# Sealed room, window ac unit, co2 ???



## grindrx (Feb 17, 2009)

Hello all,

Have done extensive reading from this as well as other sites and have learned an ass load of awesome information...thanks. 

I have a couple of questions that I can't seem to find agreeing answers to.

My question is regarding co2 levels in a sealed room..well almost sealed. 

A room that is entirely sealed except for the window ac unit as it needs exhaust to cool properly. 

Will co2 be needed, or will opening the door say twice a day and the exhaust be enough?

Do these DIY co2 generators work ie yeast sugar mixtures effectively?

Any input on this setup would be appreciated..

Thank you.


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## AeroKing (Feb 18, 2009)

Your best option is to supplement the CO2 in the room. Window A/Cs exchange very little air if any. Any other method of replenishing CO2 will be counterproductive to the air conditioner.


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## grindrx (Feb 19, 2009)

AeroKing said:


> Your best option is to supplement the CO2 in the room. Window A/Cs exchange very little air if any. Any other method of replenishing CO2 will be counterproductive to the air conditioner.


Thank you for your response, I was looking all over the internet for how much air was transferred from inside air to outside air, but could find any clear info. You saying "very little" makes me feel much better as I don't want to waste co2, or counter act the sealed room aspect. 

With that being said, now onto co2:
http://www.growlightexpress.com/carbon-dioxide-co2-31/hydrogen-water-cooled-co2-generator-113.html
This seems like a pretty new unit for the simple fact that I haven't found much in thread about it...any input or anyone that has used it?

Room size: 12X7x5 so 420sqft...haha thats effin awesome! Anyway with this unit it from all the research I have done I think I would only need it to cut on at most for 5min an hour to keep room at around 1500ppm. Height is an issue at only 5ft so scrog with 4 plants along with 2 mums and 4 clones blocked for light reasons. 

Any input on co2 with this setup would be appreciated.


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## Rudiger (Feb 20, 2009)

I use a window a/c and my co2 ppm drops about 3-400 when the ac kicks on for 15-20 minutes. 

I was looking at the water cooled gen as well but when you include the price of a reservoir, and the space for it and a cooler if you only want to run a small res and a pump to flow water, the price gets up there. I ended up going with a 4 burner regular generator for a little cheaper. You can still vent out the heat on this kind, but with my room at 32 square feet or 256 cubic feet, my gen only runs for 1 minute to bring it up from 700-1500ppm. 

Just make sure you know your measurements before you get mixed up on something. If your including height in your room calculation then you talking cubic feet, not square feet. You only have 84 square feet.
And if you do a search on here for that water cooled gen, there was a decent thread about it and some guys that use it. VonDankenstein uses one im pretty sure.


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## BAYAREAMEDICAL (Feb 20, 2009)

grindrx said:


> Hello all,
> 
> Have done extensive reading from this as well as other sites and have learned an ass load of awesome information...thanks.
> 
> ...


 
urbangrower.com he does nuthing but sealed rooms, i run co2 15 mins a day ina sealed room with my ac running 24hrs


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## ugmjfarmer (Feb 20, 2009)

A window AC is a great idea to cool a small room like yours. With 420 sq ft, you only need 1000btu for the actual space. calculate an additional 4000btu for every 1000w lamp and your set. Using the perfect garden on the see more buds DVD 3 video, you can see how they had two sets of AC, Dehumidifier and Window AC in each of the boxes. Perfect setup.

As far as CO2 supplementation, using a burner means you will need to deal with the excess moisture that the burners will produce. In most small box grows, I have seen a dehumidifier with the burners. You can sometimes get away without the dehumidifier if you have tanked CO2. Tanked CO2 is also easy to use to kill spider mites as well as sterilize the room between grows. Im sure you could do that with burners as well, but tanked seems to work for something small.

I am going to a CGE (closed growing environment) after my first harvest. A 10,000btu AC should work for me. I'm going to hang a burner, and put a dehumidifier below it. All of it controled by a climate gizmo w/ a PPM monitor. I'm doing a stadium (VSOG) with 2000w, and I might go hydroponic, but soil works great and is cheap. My space is 480sq ft. And the reason why I would go with the three of them combined is simply, getting the environment perfect makes for a great harvest.

Be prepaired for an extra $20 a month to run this all though. Headsup.


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## fat sam (Feb 20, 2009)

yeah if your using an ac then sealed is the best way to go, if your using a co2 burner then you will need to vent 1-2 times a day just to be safe, the good thing about the ac is it will take care of your humidity issues to


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## grindrx (Feb 20, 2009)

Opps I meant cubic feet...You only have to turn you ac on for 15 minutes...I have to leave mine on almost constant. Does this mean co2 supplement will be useless. Aeroking stated above with an ac unit that there is little if none air transfer from outside air to inside air, is this not true, or does co2 being pulled through the ac die as its cooled and pushed out?

Rudiger, what type of burner are you using, does it connect to propane tank or do you have a gas line? If you use a tank, how often are you filling it? Room sealed or vented?


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## grindrx (Feb 20, 2009)

Awesome video ugmjfarmer watched all of them..thanks


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## Rudiger (Feb 20, 2009)

I use aircooled lights with cold air from another non used room, and my lights come on at night, so its a colder than day time air. It keeps the lights pretty cool. I have a 4'x5'x6' veg room with a single aircooled light and the temps never go above 74. The ac never comes on in there, so I use bottled co2 for that one and the burner for the flowering room. 
They are both sealed rooms.
I use a cvr burner on propane. I used a bottled co2 at first in the flowering room and it lasted 5 weeks, and switched to the burner and it lasted 5 weeks as well. $65 for a tank of co2 for versus $20 for a tank of propane. Just that initial big bill for the generator is a hurdle. It works out to be cheaper in about 16 months haha


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## grindrx (Feb 20, 2009)

Rudiger said:


> I use aircooled lights with cold air from another non used room, and my lights come on at night, so its a colder than day time air. It keeps the lights pretty cool. I have a 4'x5'x6' veg room with a single aircooled light and the temps never go above 74. The ac never comes on in there, so I use bottled co2 for that one and the burner for the flowering room.
> They are both sealed rooms.
> I use a cvr burner on propane. I used a bottled co2 at first in the flowering room and it lasted 5 weeks, and switched to the burner and it lasted 5 weeks as well. $65 for a tank of co2 for versus $20 for a tank of propane. Just that initial big bill for the generator is a hurdle. It works out to be cheaper in about 16 months haha


Awesome, I think you have changed my mind on going with the hydroGEN model. Just a couple more questions if you dont mind, you have been alot of help.

http://cgi.ebay.com/CAP-GEN-1-CO2-GENERATOR-BURNER-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ200311214840QQcmdZViewItem
This is the one I'm looking at now...I won't be able to afford a co2 meter for awhile so how do you keep the room at around 1500ppm, also this one only has 1 burner vs. 4 like yours, how do I understand how long to keep it on for each hour? Keeping in mind that my ac will most likely be running...


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## grindrx (Feb 20, 2009)

grindrx said:


> Awesome, I think you have changed my mind on going with the hydroGEN model. Just a couple more questions if you dont mind, you have been alot of help.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/CAP-GEN-1-CO2-GENERATOR-BURNER-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ200311214840QQcmdZViewItem
> This is the one I'm looking at now...I won't be able to afford a co2 meter for awhile so how do you keep the room at around 1500ppm, also this one only has 1 burner vs. 4 like yours, how do I understand how long to keep it on for each hour? Keeping in mind that my ac will most likely be running...


Nevermind, I found this: http://www.hydrowholesale.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=hydro&Category_Code=co2

Thanks for all the help!


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## Rudiger (Feb 20, 2009)

Yea that SeedsEct guy is pretty cheap. At first he was cool with shipping to Canada but he changed his mind I guess. 
You can get a rough way of doing it, through that calculator you have. Plants are gonna use more or less co2 at different stages as well. I mean bigger leafy plants are gonna need more than a seedling is gonna use.
I would look into getting replacement burners for your gen if you get that one. I know you can get them with the CAPs. You have a pretty large space to fill, and one burner is gonna take a bit to get there. They must be pretty cheap, I'm sure I saw them before for $30 or something. Even if you only get one more, 2 is better than one in this situation.


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## grindrx (Feb 21, 2009)

will do, thanks.


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## grindrx (Mar 10, 2009)

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=95491

This link above answered alot of questions about ac units in sealed room...also if trying to decide between portable ac vs. window ac, keep in mind that portable ac units will vent more air in then out of the room than a window ac unit will. So for a sealed room a window ac unit would be better fit. If this information is wrong please let me know, and why.


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## AeroKing (Mar 11, 2009)

grindrx said:


> http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=95491
> 
> This link above answered alot of questions about ac units in sealed room...also if trying to decide between portable ac vs. window ac, keep in mind that portable ac units will vent more air in then out of the room than a window ac unit will. So for a sealed room a window ac unit would be better fit. If this information is wrong please let me know, and why.


They make "dual hose" portable A/Cs for this reason. They have an intake and an outtake to isolate the heat exchanger, much like how we air cool hoods in a co2 room. Sometimes they will need to be modified to really cut down the exchange.


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## grindrx (Mar 11, 2009)

AeroKing said:


> They make "dual hose" portable A/Cs for this reason. They have an intake and an outtake to isolate the heat exchanger, much like how we air cool hoods in a co2 room. Sometimes they will need to be modified to really cut down the exchange.


I looked at some portables, the ones I saw only had one vent. So ones with dual vents are better at sealing the room than a single vent? How do you modify it?


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## AeroKing (Mar 12, 2009)

*Dual hose* units can draw air from an exterior source, heat it and the push it into yet another area without exchanging air with the area they are in.

*Single hose* units don't take air from another location, they take it from the room and blow it out the exhaust.

With mine, even though there is an in and out hose for the heat exchanger, there is still a louvered vent to the room.
To modify, this needs to be sealed (with foil tape) and in my situation, a longer run of duct than the unit is rated for requires a small booster fan to draw the heated air to the outlet.


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## FLoJo (Mar 12, 2009)

split ac units are the way to go in a grow room, they draw air from the box wherever you put it, condense and cool it without drawing out co2 from your room.. i have never seen one of those hydro gens, they look pretty neat.. seems like there is not a lot of info about them though. buyer beware


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## AeroKing (Mar 13, 2009)

FLoJo said:


> split ac units are the way to go in a grow room, they draw air from the box wherever you put it, condense and cool it without drawing out co2 from your room.. i have never seen one of those hydro gens, they look pretty neat.. seems like there is not a lot of info about them though. buyer beware


For sure, if you've got the $, go with the mini split A/C. They are perfect for this application. +rep


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## grindrx (Mar 13, 2009)

AeroKing said:


> For sure, if you've got the $, go with the mini split A/C. They are perfect for this application. +rep


Back to the drawing board...thanks guys.


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## grindrx (Mar 13, 2009)

http://cgi.ebay.com/9000-Ductless-Mini-Split-Air-Conditioner-Heat-Pump_W0QQitemZ120387803754QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item120387803754&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:570|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1309|301:1|293:1|294:50

Like this? I'm going to do some research, because it says something about using liquid and gas service lines which I have no clue as to what that means.

I take it the fan box thing goes outside?


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## FLoJo (Mar 13, 2009)

ya thats the one.

they arent too hard to install if you have a little mechanical know how.

and they dont put off near as much heat as a traditional ac, so if you want you can just put it in another room, or whatever but the best thing to do is to put it outside if you can


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## grindrx (Mar 13, 2009)

grindrx said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/9000-Ductless-Mini-Split-Air-Conditioner-Heat-Pump_W0QQitemZ120387803754QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item120387803754&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1309|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50
> 
> Like this? I'm going to do some research, because it says something about using liquid and gas service lines which I have no clue as to what that means.
> 
> I take it the fan box thing goes outside?


http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,1630888,00.html

This video answers all questions about that...also collects water, sweet sounds like a nice source for top of water.

One question, if this ac unit is the way to go:

The condenser, or box that goes outside, could you install this part into an attic separate from the room the cooling unit is in? or would it HAVE to be outside?


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## FLoJo (Mar 13, 2009)

no it doesnt have to be outside.. it could be in an attic but would not be as efficient because it would most likely be trying to cool much hotter air.. if you have it in an attic i or another room in your house i would try and have some fresh air circulating to it so that it doesnt over work itself.. but in short yes that is the beauty of them, they dont need to be outside, but it is prefered. i was at a buddys house yesterday that ran a 10 light setup, and he had a metal shed with a grow room built inside of it, and all he did was had the ac vent inside the grow room, the box hooked up outside of it, but still in the metal shed, and then had an intake and an exhaust for it that ran outside so that fresh air was constantly cirulating it... it was absoulte sickness.

at the same time i have seen rooms setup with them outside like a normal ac condenser, and i have seen some ghetto rigged with the box on balconies, sitting by windows and all kinds of crazy shit.. really just depends on your space and application


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## grindrx (Mar 13, 2009)

FLoJo said:


> no it doesnt have to be outside.. it could be in an attic but would not be as efficient because it would most likely be trying to cool much hotter air.. if you have it in an attic i or another room in your house i would try and have some fresh air circulating to it so that it doesnt over work itself.. but in short yes that is the beauty of them, they dont need to be outside, but it is prefered. i was at a buddys house yesterday that ran a 10 light setup, and he had a metal shed with a grow room built inside of it, and all he did was had the ac vent inside the grow room, the box hooked up outside of it, but still in the metal shed, and then had an intake and an exhaust for it that ran outside so that fresh air was constantly cirulating it... it was absoulte sickness.
> 
> at the same time i have seen rooms setup with them outside like a normal ac condenser, and i have seen some ghetto rigged with the box on balconies, sitting by windows and all kinds of crazy shit.. really just depends on your space and application


Awesome! Thanks man!


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## FLoJo (Mar 13, 2009)

no prob.. and that is a great deal on one too.. i would check and see what kind of warranty and stuff it has.. 

i know there was a harbor point one on there not to long ago about 600 bux but had 5 year warranty, 3 year parts and labor, and 2 years on the condenser


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## grindrx (Mar 13, 2009)

FLoJo said:


> no prob.. and that is a great deal on one too.. i would check and see what kind of warranty and stuff it has..
> 
> i know there was a harbor point one on there not to long ago about 600 bux but had 5 year warranty, 3 year parts and labor, and 2 years on the condenser


Yea, I was just about to ask about that, it seem to cheap to go any good? Damn the next ones have a huge jump up in price...


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## grindrx (Mar 13, 2009)

grindrx said:


> Yea, I was just about to ask about that, it seem to cheap to go any good? Damn the next ones have a huge jump up in price...


1 year on parts, 5 years on compressor.


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## FLoJo (Mar 13, 2009)

its not bad, but it seems to cheap to have a dehumidifier, heat pump and ac. most of the better ones only have heat pump and ac, or just ac.. id look for some reviews online before buying


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## headbandrocker (May 18, 2009)

Hi guys
quick question:
I have a 11 x 13 room w 6x 1k a/c lights on closed loop,and am looking to get an a/c this week should i go for a 24k btu mini split,or a 24k btu window unit? Or a 24k btu portable duel hose? The window ac is only 5oo and i like that,just dont want to suck any co2 out a/c unit:but if little if any air passes through then i should be good ya?

I am reading into a sealed room method with 1 room as buffer/or lung and the 2 on its sides are flowering rooms.Very interesting,indeed.
Only buffer/lung room is treated,with a/c,co2 etc
I will post the info if anyones interested,cheers


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## FLoJo (May 18, 2009)

mini split


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## headbandrocker (May 18, 2009)

Thanks!
How much do those typically run?


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## FLoJo (May 18, 2009)

depends... id check ebay


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## headbandrocker (May 18, 2009)

Ebay huh? 
Is there a particular one/kind that i should look for?
I have a home depot credit crd i wana use do they have good ones?


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## FLoJo (May 18, 2009)

you will have to look, it depends on your home depot


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## headbandrocker (May 18, 2009)

Flo do you think 24k btu would be overkill for a 1o x 1o with 6 x 1k w a/c hoods?


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## FLoJo (May 19, 2009)

in my opinion there is no such thing as overkill.. worst case scenario you will have a large a/c that uses less electricity, less often, with a unit and a compressor that will last much longer... on the other hand getting a unit too small, will run constantly, and cost more to run, not to mention burn out the compressor in a year or two..


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## headbandrocker (May 19, 2009)

Ok,so mini split it is,
dang,cheapest one i could find on craigs list is 11oo im scared to see how much they are.Im on a mission i will check ebay now


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## Mcgician (May 19, 2009)

headbandrocker said:


> Ok,so mini split it is,
> dang,cheapest one i could find on craigs list is 11oo im scared to see how much they are.Im on a mission i will check ebay now


 I've got a question about the mini split systems. I know where the cool air comes FROM, the compressor outside, pumping it through the ducting to the room. As far as removing the humidity from the room where is the INTAKE/filter located? Pushing air into the room is bound to force air out of it through the cracks in the door in order to compensate for the difference in air pressure. If not, where does the hot, humid air go? Is the intake located centrally in the house? I'm still a little confused about how these things work.


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## headbandrocker (May 19, 2009)

i believe ac s dont exchange inside air with outsides air and vise versa.
found some on ebay but all atleast 11oo bux..dang


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## Mcgician (May 19, 2009)

headbandrocker said:


> i believe ac s dont exchange inside air with outsides air and vise versa.
> found some on ebay but all atleast 11oo bux..dang


Yeah, but how does the hot, humid air get to the compressor? That's what I'm asking.


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## FLoJo (May 19, 2009)

it doesnt have a typical intake and exhaust like a portable ac.

basically the compressor outside sucks air through it, and supercools the freon, then the freon or whatever is sent through the piping, to the split portion that is in the house. then the air in the room is passed over the chilled pipes, to cool the heated air in the room. then the freon is returned to the compressor outside to be cooled again..

as far as the condensation and humidity is concerned, parts of the cooling apparatus are extremely hot, and evaporates the humidity and the condensation, or there may be a drainage system which drips the condensation to the outside..

im sure if you hit up google and did some research you could find an exact answer, and a more technical step by step process, but this is pretty much how i understand it from the ones i have seen


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## headbandrocker (May 19, 2009)

Dood i want mini slit so bad,but might need to just bite the bullet and get the window a/c as thats all i can afford right now,will that still do the job well? another issue i have is my windows are horiziontal sliding kind so could it still be mounted? argh!

Is it best to mount ac in growroom or in adjacent room and direct cool air in through wall to where its needed?


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## Rudiger (May 19, 2009)

I have a window style ac mounted on the wall of the growroom, but still inside the bedroom.


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## headbandrocker (May 19, 2009)

Oh so you have a room inside of a room?
Could you explain that setup a bit in detail,i am very interested ...


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## Rudiger (May 19, 2009)

Basically I have an unused bedroom and built 2 sealed grow rooms inside the bedroom. So you buy some shelf brackets, and mount them where you want the ac to sit, put some plywood on the bracket and mount the ac to it. So the front half of the ac unit sits inside the grow room and the back half that would normally sit outside the window sits outside the grow but still inside the bedroom. The only problem I have is that the back that is outside the grow room puts out a lot of heat into the bedroom. A lot. Noise as well. They have the 'fan noise' quite a bit when you have the whole unit inside a room.


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## headbandrocker (May 19, 2009)

Gottcha,
That sounds like a sweet set up bro,how large is each section?


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## Rudiger (May 20, 2009)

I use a 4x8x8 flower and a 4x5x6 veg. My ac's are only 5000btu each but I would have gone to a bigger unit for the flower room as there is a co2 generator in there, and it runs for an extended period when the generator gets going.


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## coopdevillan (May 28, 2009)

So I have the same AC room in room set up. I am experimenting with cardboard and dryer vent to tape to the back and run the hose to my AC exhaust vent on the wall. I am still playing with it but I think it may work. Please chime in if u have any info useful .


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## murtymaker (May 28, 2009)

great thread!


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## murtymaker (May 29, 2009)

So are the dual hose portable a/c units pretty good at keeping the Co2 inside the room? Does anyone have any exp with these?


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## Mcgician (May 29, 2009)

murtymaker said:


> So are the dual hose portable a/c units pretty good at keeping the Co2 inside the room? Does anyone have any exp with these?


 When you say "dual hose" units, are you referring to units that have one hose for intake, and another for exhaust, or just two exhaust hoses? I've been asking around too, but from what I understand, none of them claim to be completely air tight. I think I'm going to just call up a real HVAC company that specializes in medical type rooms to find out.


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## noone88 (May 29, 2009)

Mcgician said:


> When you say "dual hose" units, are you referring to units that have one hose for intake, and another for exhaust, or just two exhaust hoses? I've been asking around too, but from what I understand, none of them claim to be completely air tight. I think I'm going to just call up a real HVAC company that specializes in medical type rooms to find out.


I am currently testing these units out. Yes, your guys are correct. They are not completely air tight, but the negative air pressure is a lot less compared to a single hose unit. Even window units still have some of negative air pressure effect.

In a pinch, dual hose units will work, especially if your area only gets a few months of hot weather.

Long term solution however, you need a split air unit or some kind of water-cooled unit stored inside the grow room.


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## FLoJo (May 29, 2009)

i would advise using insulated ducting, as each foot of raw ducting will exponentially add heat back into your room


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## ravensfire (Jun 22, 2009)

Where ever you hang the unit inside, it has a drain pipe that needs to go to the out side, the inside unit draws air from in the room, the only problem is getting fresh air into you room, you would need a dehumidifier and a indoor air cleaner, or an exaust unit that cutts on every few hours,


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## SoCaliSmoker (Jan 7, 2010)

BAYAREAMEDICAL said:


> urbangrower.com he does nuthing but sealed rooms, i run co2 15 mins a day ina sealed room with my ac running 24hrs


 

BayArea, I went onto the website you suggested - urbangrower.com - and although it shows at the top of the page "how to grow 2+ pounds per light, and how to use CO2, and how to do this and that" it just has a bunch of video clips showing him in Amsterdam and all kinds of other places.

Where do I click on "how to actually do it?" Is there something I'm missing here?


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## carlossantana (Jun 12, 2015)

AeroKing said:


> Your best option is to supplement the CO2 in the room. Window A/Cs exchange very little air if any. Any other method of replenishing CO2 will be counterproductive to the air conditioner.


The ac brings CO2 in the room right?


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## Maineconnect (May 28, 2020)

AeroKing said:


> Your best option is to supplement the CO2 in the room. Window A/Cs exchange very little air if any. Any other method of replenishing CO2 will be counterproductive to the air conditioner.


What if there were to be good negative pressure on the room itself last light on chain open——> out window?

I have no idea how old this threat is I’m just in a very similar situation


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## Renfro (May 28, 2020)

Maineconnect said:


> What if there were to be good negative pressure on the room itself last light on chain open——> out window?


Well if you are exhausting air from the room, air must come in from somewhere to replace it.


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## Maineconnect (May 29, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Well if you are exhausting air from the room, air must come in from somewhere to replace it.


Correct.


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## Renfro (May 29, 2020)

Maineconnect said:


> Correct.


Wouldn't wanna be exhausting much conditioned air though.


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## Maineconnect (Jun 1, 2020)

Figuring out all this in stride. Lot of sleepless nights man


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