# America still love's Trump



## Jimdamick (Nov 26, 2019)

Despite all the testimony last week in the impeachment hearings underway in the House of Representatives, views among most Americans grew more supportive of President Trump over impeachment in the latest Microsoft News poll.
In the context of the impeachment hearings, 32 percent said they were more favorable after the second week; up significantly from 24 after the first week of hearings, which just goes too show you how many Americans are fucking idiots and are complicit in Trumps actions.
Despite all his atrocious behavior, his poll numbers are going up, not down.
What the fuck does that tell you?
It tells me that America is doomed as a nation which used to stand for morality, honesty, honor, truthfulness and dignity, all of which no longer exist here as a result of Trump as POTUS.
I wanna know what these Trump supporters tell their children at bedtime, about how too approach their lives without some source of a moral compass.
It's OK Toby or Mary Lou, just lie your ass off, cheat at will, sexually abuse others, backstab your friends and allies, spew racist & derogatory comments about people you don't agree with or like.
All is good, your gonna go far, even you can be POTUS.
Very, very fucking sad.


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## hanimmal (Nov 26, 2019)

Jimdamick said:


> Despite all the testimony last week in the impeachment hearings underway in the House of Representatives, views among most Americans grew more supportive of President Trump over impeachment in the latest Microsoft News poll.
> In the context of the impeachment hearings, 32 percent said they were more favorable after the second week; up significantly from 24 after the first week of hearings, which just goes too show you how many Americans are fucking idiots and are complicit in Trumps actions.
> Despite all his atrocious behavior, his poll numbers are going up, not down.
> What the fuck does that tell you?
> ...


This is why I am OK with Bloomberg entering into the race.

Trump campaign, spending furiously to counter impeachment inquiry, assails Facebook over potential changes to political ad rules

The outcry came as Trump’s reelection team has undertaken a massive spending blitz on Facebook aimed at countering the House’s impeachment inquiry. Trump’s page alone promoted more than $830,000 worth of ads in the seven days ending on Nov. 17, according to Facebook’s ad archive.




Bloomberg doesn't need to win the Democratic nomination to sink Trump's financial advantage. When I googled this to find the article I wanted, look what the top result was.


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## Justin-case (Nov 26, 2019)

If this was good for Trump he wouldn't literally be begging for the impeachment proceedings to stop.


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## MidwestGorilla219 (Nov 26, 2019)

I agree with the op, I can't believe all the donations Trump is getting during the impeachment process.


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## dandyrandy (Nov 26, 2019)

Chick-fil-A exists because of christian backing. So does Trump.


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## potroastV2 (Nov 26, 2019)

MidwestGorilla219 said:


> I agree with the op, I can't believe all the donations Trump is getting during the impeachment process.



Holy Shit!! 




You actually believe what trump says???


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## hanimmal (Nov 26, 2019)




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## mooray (Nov 26, 2019)

Jimdamick said:


> Despite all the testimony last week in the impeachment hearings underway in the House of Representatives, views among most Americans grew more supportive of President Trump over impeachment in the latest Microsoft News poll.
> In the context of the impeachment hearings, 32 percent said they were more favorable after the second week; up significantly from 24 after the first week of hearings, which just goes too show you how many Americans are fucking idiots and are complicit in Trumps actions.
> Despite all his atrocious behavior, his poll numbers are going up, not down.
> What the fuck does that tell you?
> ...


Nailed it. Let's not downplay the fact that at least half of this country has garbage values.


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## MidwestGorilla219 (Nov 26, 2019)

rollitup said:


> Holy Shit!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's public record dude and many news channels have talked about it. Oh that's right we act like children here I forget, don't like something then it's not true. Pathetic.


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## MidwestGorilla219 (Nov 26, 2019)

Now I'm going to be labeled a Trump supporter even though I'm completely turned off on all of it, but I don't care have fun.


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## hanimmal (Nov 26, 2019)




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## Herb & Suds (Nov 26, 2019)

MidwestGorilla219 said:


> Now I'm going to be labeled a Trump supporter even though I'm completely turned off on all of it, but I don't care have fun.


And the questions burns... why even comment , I don't need your whining


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## PJ Diaz (Nov 26, 2019)

Today's polls..


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## Fogdog (Nov 26, 2019)

love me them poles


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## Fogdog (Nov 26, 2019)

MidwestGorilla219 said:


> It's public record dude and many news channels have talked about it. Oh that's right we act like children here I forget, don't like something then it's not true. Pathetic.


Owning libs by donating to a billionaire whose main claim to fame is cutting taxes to billionaires.


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## Sir Napsalot (Nov 26, 2019)

Fogdog said:


> love me them poles
> 
> View attachment 4427326


Mmmm... polski wyrob


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## Unclebaldrick (Nov 26, 2019)

Fogdog said:


> love me them poles
> 
> View attachment 4427326


I like women who like poles.


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## MidwestGorilla219 (Nov 26, 2019)

Fogdog said:


> Owning libs by donating to a billionaire whose main claim to fame is cutting taxes to billionaires.


I'm not trying to own anybody, I definitely side with liberals more often than not. I just feel like I can't say anything without being labeled something I'm not.


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## Fogdog (Nov 26, 2019)

MidwestGorilla219 said:


> I'm not trying to own anybody, I definitely side with liberals more often than not. I just feel like I can't say anything without being labeled something I'm not.


I wasn't implying you, apologies if it seemed I was. Just being sarcastic about people who donate to a billionaire's campaign so he can do more for other billionaires.


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## DIY-HP-LED (Nov 26, 2019)

*6 Ways Trump Has Sold Out America with Robert Reich*




Former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich breaks down all the ways Trump has broken his promise to put "America First" in foreign policy.


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## DaFreak (Nov 26, 2019)

I think it tells us what many of us have been saying for years, capitalism just doesn't work unbridled. We need that socialist aspect. We also need to start fucking testing people to give them the privilege to vote. Wipe out 60% of the voters to begin with. If you can't point to America on a map, if you don't understand the positions, and if you think Trump is innocent you need to have some of your rights taken away from you because you don't deserve them. If you love your affordable care act but hate Obama-care, you need to lose your rights. Along the same line we need to make higher education/trade schools free and mandatory. If you are not a productive member of society lose your right to vote. Trump is a symptom, the disease is unbridled capitalism that produces slaves that are easy to control. REMINDER - we spent more on education than any other country. REMINDER - we sent men to the moon. FACT - We are a country of idiots because that is the goal.


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## UncleBuck (Nov 26, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> I think it tells us what many of us have been saying for years, capitalism just doesn't work unbridled. We need that socialist aspect. We also need to start fucking testing people to give them the privilege to vote. Wipe out 60% of the voters to begin with. If you can't point to America on a map, if you don't understand the positions, and if you think Trump is innocent you need to have some of your rights taken away from you because you don't deserve them. If you love your affordable care act but hate Obama-care, you need to lose your rights. Along the same line we need to make higher education/trade schools free and mandatory. If you are not a productive member of society lose your right to vote. Trump is a symptom, the disease is unbridled capitalism that produces slaves that are easy to control. REMINDER - we spent more on education than any other country. REMINDER - we sent men to the moon. FACT - We are a country of idiots because that is the goal.


Naive


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## DaFreak (Nov 26, 2019)

UncleBuck said:


> Naive


Sure buddy, history is filled with....well with history being made by people who changed something drastic. Nothing Naive about it, but I expect people like you to say that and continue saying it cause you got no answers either.


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## UncleBuck (Nov 26, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> Sure buddy, history is filled with....well with history being made by people who changed something drastic. Nothing Naive about it, but I expect people like you to say that and continue saying it cause you got no answers either.


History is filled with polling exams that disenfranchised certain people


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## DaFreak (Nov 26, 2019)

Yup, whatever


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## UncleBuck (Nov 26, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> Yup, whatever


There’s that naïveté again


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 26, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> I think it tells us what many of us have been saying for years, capitalism just doesn't work unbridled. We need that socialist aspect. We also need to start fucking testing people to give them the privilege to vote. Wipe out 60% of the voters to begin with. If you can't point to America on a map, if you don't understand the positions, and if you think Trump is innocent you need to have some of your rights taken away from you because you don't deserve them. If you love your affordable care act but hate Obama-care, you need to lose your rights. Along the same line we need to make higher education/trade schools free and mandatory. If you are not a productive member of society lose your right to vote. Trump is a symptom, the disease is unbridled capitalism that produces slaves that are easy to control. REMINDER - we spent more on education than any other country. REMINDER - we sent men to the moon. FACT - We are a country of idiots because that is the goal.


There's no such thing as good capitalism. It's a disease, no a cancer, without a cure. The only solution is to amputate. Trying to do a biopsy then treat the symptoms, only makes it grow. 
Capitalism is on its last legs, and can either go quietly, or put up a fight. In which case everyone loses.


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## DaFreak (Nov 26, 2019)

UncleBuck said:


> There’s that naïveté again


Wow, that’s about the most naive thing I’ve heard today


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## DaFreak (Nov 26, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> There's no such thing as good capitalism. It's a disease, no a cancer, without a cure. The only solution is to amputate. Trying to do a biopsy then treat the symptoms, only makes it grow.
> Capitalism is on its last legs, and can either go quietly, or put up a fight. In which case everyone loses.


I think Socialism is the cure.


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 26, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> I think Socialism is the cure.


Which type of socialism? 
Most people who think of socialism think of dirigisme, which is: an economic doctrine in which the state plays a strong directive role, as opposed to a merely regulatory role, over a capitalist market economy.
Rather than the original french version of socialism which is: an economic system where government plays as little of a role as possible, and the means of production is owned by the workers, rather than a capitalist investor. 
Socialism leads to the cure, correct, but dirigisme leads to economic disaster like what's happening now in Venezuela.


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## DaFreak (Nov 26, 2019)

The second.


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## Dr.Amber Trichome (Nov 26, 2019)

You might wanna look at this video. You might get a sense the country is changing Against him and Melania .
I don’t think a so called phony 3 job slave wage good economy can help him at this point. People are getting sick of the Trump show real quick. Good Riddance! We can do better than those Turds!

the most phoniest First Lady gets what she deserves. Look at this outfit! How inappropriate. That dirty filthy slut. She looks like a dominatrices with a whip hidden under her trench coat, To the unexcitement of 1000 kids in the audience. Booooooooo



Did anybody stop to think that perhaps the Trumps are the most selfish arrogant phony family to ever inhabit the White House. America can’t believe in this fake phony family much longer. Good Riddance!!


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## Fogdog (Nov 26, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> I think it tells us what many of us have been saying for years, capitalism just doesn't work unbridled. We need that socialist aspect. We also need to start fucking testing people to give them the privilege to vote. Wipe out 60% of the voters to begin with. If you can't point to America on a map, if you don't understand the positions, and if you think Trump is innocent you need to have some of your rights taken away from you because you don't deserve them. If you love your affordable care act but hate Obama-care, you need to lose your rights. Along the same line we need to make higher education/trade schools free and mandatory. If you are not a productive member of society lose your right to vote. Trump is a symptom, the disease is unbridled capitalism that produces slaves that are easy to control. REMINDER - we spent more on education than any other country. REMINDER - we sent men to the moon. FACT - We are a country of idiots because that is the goal.


My, how authoritarian of you. 

Disenfranching people is a right wing solution. Taking the right to vote away is what Republicans do.


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## Fogdog (Nov 26, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> There's no such thing as good capitalism. It's a disease, no a cancer, without a cure. The only solution is to amputate. Trying to do a biopsy then treat the symptoms, only makes it grow.
> Capitalism is on its last legs, and can either go quietly, or put up a fight. In which case everyone loses.


So start a third party or join one. 

Democrats have no use for you.


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## DaFreak (Nov 26, 2019)

Fogdog said:


> My, how authoritarian of you.
> 
> Disenfranching people is a right wing solution. Taking the right to vote away is what Republicans do.


I will put it another way that will make it sound better to you...giving the right to vote to qualified people. Republicans want to take away the right based on color. Not the same thing. The best solution is to educate the masses. But when idiots are weaponized we need to think of solutions even if they are ugly.


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## PJ Diaz (Nov 26, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> I will put it another way that will make it sound better to you...giving the right to vote to qualified people. Republicans want to take away the right based on color. Not the same thing. The best solution is to educate the masses. But when idiots are weaponized we need to think of solutions even if they are ugly.


How do you decide who's "qualified" to vote? At the end of the day it's all the same: qualify vs disqualify.


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 26, 2019)

Fogdog said:


> So start a third party or join one.
> 
> Democrats have no use for you.


Who said I was one? I'm a communist. My online handle says so. How much more clear do I have to be? 
Also I wasn't talking to you, nor about anything to do with Democrats. Did you have this problem in school as a kid too?


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## DaFreak (Nov 26, 2019)

I don't decide anything, the government would. How about we start with the same test they give immigrants to become citizens? That is where I might start.


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## DaFreak (Nov 26, 2019)

We won't let people drive without passing a test because that would be dangerous, but we got problems with giving idiots a test before they get a say in controlling a country with nuclear weapons? lol


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## Jimdamick (Nov 26, 2019)

hanimmal said:


> This is why I am OK with Bloomberg entering into the race.


I just wish that he would have entered it sooner than later.
He's an intelligent man, there's no doubt about that, but I don't think that a Jewish billionaire from NY is going to win.
But, who knows?
The country elected the billionaire (supposedly) Son of Satan from NY last time, so who the fuck knows anymore


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 26, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> We won't let people drive without passing a test because that would be dangerous, but we got problems with giving idiots a test before they get a say in controlling a country with nuclear weapons? lol


How I see it, we as a whole don't have enough self restraint to handle democracy and will only vote for our own selfish needs. If that's not the case, we wouldn't need democracy in the first place.
Unless we can come up with a system of governance that eliminates all greed, and work towards that goal, we're just on a slow road or nuclear war away from extinction.


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 26, 2019)

Jimdamick said:


> I just wish that he would have entered it sooner than later.
> He's an intelligent man, there's no doubt about that, but I don't think that a Jewish billionaire from NY is going to win.
> But, who knows?
> The country elected the billionaire (supposedly) Son of Satan from NY last time, so who the fuck knows anymore


Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but most likely we'll have another four years of Trump. The only person who could beat him is, you're right, another billionaire, Oprah Winfrey.
But she refuses to run, and Trump brags he knows some dirt on her as the reason why.
So like you said, who knows anymore.


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## UncleBuck (Nov 26, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> I don't decide anything, the government would. How about we start with the same test they give immigrants to become citizens? That is where I might start.


How about no


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## MidwestGorilla219 (Nov 26, 2019)

I believe in capitalism with socialist programs that help the poor and limit the power of the rich, but communism...? No thanks, I'm not going down that road.


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## Fogdog (Nov 26, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> Who said I was one? I'm a communist. My online handle says so. How much more clear do I have to be?
> Also I wasn't talking to you, nor about anything to do with Democrats. Did you have this problem in school as a kid too?


OK, glad to hear you don't actually want to make any changes? Sort of amused at how you were talking to yourself on this forum. Not surprised though. I occasionally walk past people who talk to themselves but it's usually obvious that they are not all there. 

So, tell me, where in the world does a country or society exist or ever has existed that lived according to your ideals?


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 26, 2019)

Fogdog said:


> OK, glad to hear you don't actually want to make any changes? Sort of amused at how you were talking to yourself on this forum. Not surprised though. I occasionally walk past people who talk to themselves but it's usually obvious that they are not all there.
> 
> So, tell me, where in the world does a country or society exist or ever has existed that lived according to your ideals?


We make changes as a people, not through voting for mini dictators, who we call representatives. Change has never come about that way. Our country was founded on revolution. 
Change comes by action. Pulling a handle at the voting box is no different than thinking one can become rich by pulling the handle of a slot machine.
It means going to rallies and protesting. Writing articles about your convictions. Being a foot soldier and going door to door letting people know. That sort of thing.


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## Fogdog (Nov 26, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> I will put it another way that will make it sound better to you...giving the right to vote to qualified people. Republicans want to take away the right based on color. Not the same thing. The best solution is to educate the masses. But when idiots are weaponized we need to think of solutions even if they are ugly.


Republicans are Gerrymandering in states that they control to disenfranchise Democrats. 

Point me to a country that tests its people to qualify for voting? I'd like to see a representative example.


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## Fogdog (Nov 26, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> We make changes as a people, not through voting for mini dictators, who we call representatives. Change has never come about that way. Our country was founded on revolution.
> Change comes by action. Pulling a handle at the voting box is no different than thinking one can become rich by pulling the handle of a slot machine.
> It means going to rallies and protesting. Writing articles about your convictions. Being a foot soldier and going door to door letting people know. That sort of thing.


So this socialist country you are talking about. Where is there a practical example of what you describe? The reason I ask is because socialism as you describe -- I'm only aware of where it has failed. Why do you think it would work if it has never worked before?


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 26, 2019)

Fogdog said:


> So this socialist country you are talking about. Where is there a practical example of what you describe? The reason I ask is because socialism as you describe -- I'm only aware of where it has failed. Why do you think it would work if it has never worked before?


Our ideals for this country were never done before, and they too failed. Are you suggesting we give up altogether since we seem to always fail?
That's not good logic.
India did what I said, and it paid off, sort of, at least they're free of British rule. Taiwan did what you suggest, and they're now back as part of authoritarian China.
As to why I think it would work now when it didn't before, technology. People are greedy. When it was tried before, they didn't have the same toolset which is now available.
Another difference is we're the only true super power who's left. We don't have anything to prove to the rest of the world like they did then, other than to our own people. There's no more cold war.


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## UncleBuck (Nov 26, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> Our ideals for this country were never done before, and they too failed. Are you suggesting we give up altogether since we seem to always fail?
> That's not good logic.
> India did what I said, and it paid off, sort of, at least they're free of British rule. Taiwan did what you suggest, and they're now back as part of authoritarian China.
> As to why I think it would work now when it didn't before, technology. People are greedy. When it was tried before, they didn't have the same toolset which is now available.
> Another difference is we're the only true super power who's left. We don't have anything to prove to the rest of the world like they did then, other than to our own people. There's no more cold war.


What smells like horseshit


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 26, 2019)

UncleBuck said:


> What smells like horseshit


Are we playing Jeopardy! now?
If so, I'll take Stupid Americans, for $1,000, Alex, to finish the category.
But if you ever decide to play in the real world, I'm game for that too. Just ask a real question.


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## DaFreak (Nov 26, 2019)

Fogdog said:


> Republicans are Gerrymandering in states that they control to disenfranchise Democrats.
> 
> Point me to a country that tests its people to qualify for voting? I'd like to see a representative example.


You’d rather be ruled by the elites then? That’s what we have now.


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## kotobide (Nov 26, 2019)

Ever trusting polls again in this day and age...


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## Fogdog (Nov 26, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> You’d rather be ruled by the elites then? That’s what we have now.


So, if it's all so rational and such there should be a country that you can point to that is an example of the kind of system you propose. I'm not aware of any. Tell me then, which country are you referring to when you describe a socialist nation? Any nation in history would do. One that managed to defend itself too and where its people thrived if that's not too high of a bar to clear.


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## Fogdog (Nov 26, 2019)

kotobide said:


> Ever trusting polls again in this day and age...
> 
> View attachment 4427564


OK, so it's clear that you probably should refer to polls in your discussions. Totally not one of your strengths.


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 26, 2019)

Fogdog said:


> So, if it's all so rational and such there should be a country that you can point to that is an example of the kind of system you propose. I'm not aware of any. Tell me then, which country are you referring to when you describe a socialist nation? Any nation in history would do. One that managed to defend itself too and where its people thrived if that's not too high of a bar to clear.


My goal is to become such a radical as to do something never done before. If we can prove "the poor will always be amongst us," wrong, those Bible thumping twerps will have nothing left to stand upon anymore, ever again. Besides having the satisfaction of them getting extremely pissed, the world is a better place. It's a win win for everyone.
What's wrong with such a dream?


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## Fogdog (Nov 26, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> Our ideals for this country were never done before, and they too failed. Are you suggesting we give up altogether since we seem to always fail?
> That's not good logic.
> India did what I said, and it paid off, sort of, at least they're free of British rule. Taiwan did what you suggest, and they're now back as part of authoritarian China.
> As to why I think it would work now when it didn't before, technology. People are greedy. When it was tried before, they didn't have the same toolset which is now available.
> Another difference is we're the only true super power who's left. We don't have anything to prove to the rest of the world like they did then, other than to our own people. There's no more cold war.


You refer to an economic-political system entirely owned by the workers though. Zero capitalism. Neither India or Taiwan successfully carried that off If they actually tried to do so, I'm not aware. China was never what you say. It was always a tops-down economy run by a dictator. 

Greed is present in primates that diverged from the human tree long ago. In order for it to persist in diverse species across hundreds of millions of years of evolution it could very well be important to the survival of a species. Why wouldn't we learn how to accommodate it rather than rub it out? This is my problem with you armchair philosophers. You ignore human nature as if it were plastic. Its not. As such, I don't believe that we know enough to re-write human society into a new form. We might one day know enough but right now, Communism, Socialism, Capitalism in all their pure forms of are bunk. 

Regarding technology, yes, China is showing us how a government can use it to control its people. It's not a very attractive aspect of their current form of government. I reject what they are doing completely.


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## Fogdog (Nov 26, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> My goal is to become such a radical as to do something never done before. If we can prove "the poor will always be amongst us," wrong, those Bible thumping twerps will have nothing left to stand upon anymore, ever again. Besides having the satisfaction of them getting extremely pissed, the world is a better place. It's a win win for everyone.
> What's wrong with such a dream?


Go ahead and knock yourself out. I don't believe that you have all the answers. Rather than tell people what to do. Try convincing them. Thus far you've failed miserably.


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## Fogdog (Nov 26, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> We make changes as a people, not through voting for mini dictators, who we call representatives. Change has never come about that way. Our country was founded on revolution.
> Change comes by action. Pulling a handle at the voting box is no different than thinking one can become rich by pulling the handle of a slot machine.
> It means going to rallies and protesting. Writing articles about your convictions. Being a foot soldier and going door to door letting people know. That sort of thing.


naive


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 26, 2019)

Fogdog said:


> Go ahead and knock yourself out. I don't believe that you have all the answers. Rather than tell people what to do. Try convincing them. Thus far you've failed miserably.


Maybe I've failed with you, but there's more communists in America than ever, when at one time just being accused landed you in prison. Now you can be one of those freaks besides the Jehovah's Witness preaching the wonders of communism at the court house, and neither of you get locked up.
70 years ago neither of those things was true.
Gay was considered a mental illness, now we got marriage rights.
We didn't get those rights from voting, we tried. California voted against same sex marriage.
But those rights can just as easily get taken away.
All it takes is for Trump to get in another time. RGB dies along with another lefty judge, bam, no more same sex marriage, no more Roe V Wade, no more civil rights. All those gone.
Such a system to give and take basic human rights shouldn't exist.
If we can't use our democracy properly, we deserve it taken away.
Technology is our only hope.
But it must be an open platform, like Wikipedia, etc. The whole decision chain can't be closed, everyone must have a say.
The definition of greed is known by everyone, but people do it anyway because they can get away with it.
We can't let that happen anymore.
Society must be resource base, not that they're an after thought of a fiat capital based economy.


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## DaFreak (Nov 27, 2019)

Fogdog said:


> So, if it's all so rational and such there should be a country that you can point to that is an example of the kind of system you propose. I'm not aware of any. Tell me then, which country are you referring to when you describe a socialist nation? Any nation in history would do. One that managed to defend itself too and where its people thrived if that's not too high of a bar to clear.


Got you, you can only live in the past. Brilliant. Humans have no need to evolve people, dog says all the answers are in the past.


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## hanimmal (Nov 27, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> There's no such thing as good capitalism. It's a disease, no a cancer, without a cure. The only solution is to amputate. Trying to do a biopsy then treat the symptoms, only makes it grow.
> Capitalism is on its last legs, and can either go quietly, or put up a fight. In which case everyone loses.


I think this capitalism/socialism is just a way to get people riled up and into camps for data analysis to find out who will be your boogey man. They are just human terms to describe different human manufactured economies. Everything is a mix, capitalism is really just people being able to easily exchange goods for their own determined prices, communism is basically government mandated pricing. Everything will always be some mixture, the reality of humanities daily business is too vast to micro manage fully, and every economy is a blend.


Communist Dreamer said:


> How I see it, we as a whole don't have enough self restraint to handle democracy and will only vote for our own selfish needs. If that's not the case, we wouldn't need democracy in the first place.
> Unless we can come up with a system of governance that eliminates all greed, and work towards that goal, we're just on a slow road or nuclear war away from extinction.


Or not, we could just slowly march towards something better like we have throughout human history.


Communist Dreamer said:


> Our ideals for this country were never done before, and they too failed. Are you suggesting we give up altogether since we seem to always fail?
> That's not good logic.
> India did what I said, and it paid off, sort of, at least they're free of British rule. Taiwan did what you suggest, and they're now back as part of authoritarian China.
> As to why I think it would work now when it didn't before, technology. People are greedy. When it was tried before, they didn't have the same toolset which is now available.
> Another difference is we're the only true super power who's left. We don't have anything to prove to the rest of the world like they did then, other than to our own people. There's no more cold war.


We are still here, so I don't understand how you get to the conclusion we have failed.


Communist Dreamer said:


> Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but most likely we'll have another four years of Trump. The only person who could beat him is, you're right, another billionaire, Oprah Winfrey.
> But she refuses to run, and Trump brags he knows some dirt on her as the reason why.
> So like you said, who knows anymore.


You forgot Trump, he can and will totally beat himself this next election.


Communist Dreamer said:


> My goal is to become such a radical as to do something never done before. If we can prove "the poor will always be amongst us," wrong, those Bible thumping twerps will have nothing left to stand upon anymore, ever again. Besides having the satisfaction of them getting extremely pissed, the world is a better place. It's a win win for everyone.
> What's wrong with such a dream?


Nothing, I think though that it is understanding that poor is kind of a loaded term though, do you mean homeless/nonfunctional, or just people that constantly can't seem to find a way to become successfully a part of the middle class.


Communist Dreamer said:


> Maybe I've failed with you, but there's more communists in America than ever


How do you know this other than the obvious, we have more people in America than ever.


Communist Dreamer said:


> when at one time just being accused landed you in prison. Now you can be one of those freaks besides the Jehovah's Witness preaching the wonders of communism at the court house, and neither of you get locked up.
> 70 years ago neither of those things was true.
> Gay was considered a mental illness, now we got marriage rights.
> We didn't get those rights from voting, we tried. California voted against same sex marriage.
> ...


I agree Tech is our biggest hope, not only hope though. The world we live in (as much as people would like to sell otherwise) is constantly improving.


Communist Dreamer said:


> But it must be an open platform, like Wikipedia, etc. The whole decision chain can't be closed, everyone must have a say.


More important to this, everyone needs to be able to trust the information that they get. Russia has shown how well disinformation can be used to create a fact bubble for people online, making those people very easily tricked.


Communist Dreamer said:


> Society must be resource base, not that they're an after thought of a fiat capital based economy.


Here is my chicken now check my prostate kind of thing? No thank you, currency is just a way to easily exchange money, all the propaganda about this topic is a rabbit hole of lies designed to trick people into a us vs them mentality.


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## DIY-HP-LED (Nov 27, 2019)

*No, the new CNN poll is not good news for Donald Trump on impeachment*








No, the new CNN poll is not good news for Donald Trump on impeachment | CNN Politics


A new CNN poll shows that half the country believes that President Donald Trump should be not only impeached by the House, but also removed from office by the Senate.




www.cnn.com





(CNN)A new CNN poll shows that half the country believes that President Donald Trump should be not only impeached by the House, but also removed from office by the Senate.

That result is being spun in some corners of the internet as great news for Trump, because that 50% number is unchanged from a CNN poll in mid-October, the conclusion being that the last 10 days of public impeachment hearings have not convinced more of the public that the President needs to go.

*Except that we are missing the forest for the trees here: A majority of the country believes the current President of the United States should be impeached and removed from office!*

A quick check of history shows how strange that is.
The peak of support for the impeachment and removal of then-President Bill Clinton in 1998 was 29% in CNN polling. That's the highest that number ever went, despite the fact that the House Republican majority did vote to impeach late that year!
Ditto impeachment sentiment for the two presidents between Clinton and Trump. In a 2006 CNN poll, 30% of the public wanted George W. Bush impeached and removed from office; in 2014, 33% said the same of Barack Obama. (Unlike Trump and Clinton, neither Bush nor Obama ever faced any sort of formal impeachment investigation or vote.)

What those historical numbers tell us is that for at least the last two decades, there is roughly 30% of the country that is ready to impeach a president (usually of the party to which they do not belong) at all times.

What makes the Trump number so remarkable, then, is that 20% more of the public is now convinced not only that he should be impeached but that he should be removed from office -- despite the fact that, unlike Clinton, Bush and Obama when those CNN polls were taken, Trump will face voters in a bid for a second term in less than a year's time.

Now, it is fair to say that Democrats -- if you gave them truth serum at the conclusion of last week's public impeachment hearings -- believed they had hit a home run, and that polling would reflect that. That polling so far hasn't changed all that much is worth noting.
So that point is right -- for now. But it's also worth noting that we are in the immediate aftermath of the hearings, and its findings may not have fully seeped into the public consciousness just yet. And more importantly, whether it's 50% or 51% or 55%, it's noteworthy that a majority of the public wants the President gone.

Don't get so close to the painting that you can't see the full picture. And that full picture is this: 50% of the public believes Trump should be impeached and removed -- almost double the amount who have said that about any of his three most recent predecessors, including one who was actually impeached by the House.

*Don't lose sight of those facts amid the narrow focus on whether the impeachment numbers have moved since the last poll. That 50% number is both astounding and ahistorical.*


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## DaFreak (Nov 27, 2019)

He will be impeached, he will not be removed from office and there is a good chance he will win again. Dem the facts.


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## Justin-case (Nov 27, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> He will be impeached, he will not be removed from office and there is a good chance he will win again. Dem the facts.


Trump has still has a small chance of winning...if he endorses his opponent.


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## DIY-HP-LED (Nov 27, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> He will be impeached, he will not be removed from office and there is a good chance he will win again. Dem the facts.


He might be removed, we will see soon enough, have some faith in Mitch McConnell as a sneaky asshole, a simple majority makes it a secret vote. Besides there are plenty of republican senators who don't run until 2022 or 2024, Trump will be dead or in prison by then and the base has a short memory. There is a small chance he will win, he never won the last time he had less votes than Clinton and the Russians interfered in the election on his behalf. He will most likely lose the 2020 election and take the GOP senate with him when he goes. He will try to start a civil war, if he can, when he loses, but his base are losers and they will lose that too.


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## DIY-HP-LED (Nov 27, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> Got you, you can only live in the past. Brilliant. Humans have no need to evolve people, dog says all the answers are in the past.


The wise learn from the past and their mistakes. America will learn from its mistakes too, or die as a free people


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 27, 2019)

hanimmal said:


> ....(big quoted mess!)


1) I don't see it that way. Communism is people oriented, while capitalism is thing oriented.

2) Guess I'm jaded. Stories like when Anton Yelchin's family was sued because they wanted answers, but that'd embarrass Jeep's bottom line makes me sick.

3) Just look online. Look at all the sickening comments on YT. They're like a cancer there. Just look on any Steven Crowder video to how much we've failed at what tech has brought us, rather than should and its potential.

4) He already has, by not understanding what life is really about, love and compassion, which he lacks.

5) When I go just about three blocks from my lovely community, at the over pass there's a tent city, where everyone was out in the cold last night. While my biggest worry was slight insomnia with waking up after a night terror right now not quite six hours later. I sometimes get those, yeah.

6) No, we haven't failed so much, yet, but I fear we're going that direction, especially if we can elect someone like Trump. I've failed to with Fogdog is what I meant.

7) People have, and will always have evil in their heart. That makes me sad because I don't have any. People see a 1984 constant surveillance as a horror, I see it as the only way. Religion hasn't worked. I beat to life with my own drum, but there's sickos out there who just don't have that. We need protection from the few percent. I think it's said something like only 3% are needed to affect others lives. If someone can't do it, we haven't enriched their evil heart, we just but that genie in a bottle.

 True, not everyone believes their conviction first, and is easy to lash out first about nothing at all. People truly are stupider than most give credit.

9) You have that opinion and I respect it. But, the topics like rent control and Monopolies make me think otherwise. We can constantly print money and fake capital. You can't fake a surplus, when you clearly see a physical resource just isn't there for you to buy, no matter how much money you have.

Take for example. Over the last four months I was looking for a particular vintage guitar. Then I found it, and got a deal at a third of its value. Near mint condition, sounds better than others I've seen in better condition. It was like my own version of a miracle.
At first I thought the seller was a scam, but I was so desperate, and just jumped.
I'm glad I did. But despite capitalism, that's part of the miracle too.
My point is, I'd have gladly spent three times for what I got now. But I couldn't over four months no matter how much I tried. Once something is gone, it's gone.
Fiat capital gives the illusion the Earth can keep giving, if you just have enough money. Which isn't true.

Hope that helps? Oh and good morning!


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## Jimdamick (Nov 27, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> 7) People have, and will always have evil in their heart. That makes me sad because I don't have any.


Don't be so jaded, it's not good for one's mental health.
There's millions of us in this World that strive for goodness against evil (everyone that voted against Trump for instance), and historically, we have won in the end of the day..
Trump is an aberration, a bump in the road that will be dead in 10 years and will mean shit in the Big Picture of existence
One way or the other, the righteous always will prevail
At least that's my experience


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 27, 2019)

Jimdamick said:


> Don't be so jaded, it's not good for one's mental health.
> There's millions of us in this World that strive for goodness against evil (everyone that voted against Trump for instance), and historically, we have won in the end of the day..
> Trump is an aberration, a bump in the road that will be dead in 10 years and will mean shit in the Big Picture of existence
> One way or the other, the righteous always will prevail
> At least that's my experience


I don't see him as an aberration. Well, kind of. His unique feature is he seems to have some fort of Tourette's which gives us insight into how all billionaires think but don't say aloud. That's a blessing in disguise.


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## hanimmal (Nov 27, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> 1) I don't see it that way. Communism is people oriented, while capitalism is thing oriented.


What does that even mean? Capitalism is decisions made by people buying and selling their goods, communism is still the same people, making the same decisions. Just one 'system' is designed to take the decision making of how to go about bringing things to the market out of peoples hands and into the government. 


Communist Dreamer said:


> 2) Guess I'm jaded. Stories like when Anton Yelchin's family was sued because they wanted answers, but that'd embarrass Jeep's bottom line makes me sick.


Yeah, I look at things like men in our country are no longer legally allowed to treat women like house rape slaves, we are no longer doing whatever we used to do with handicapped people and actually opened up our society to them being productive members of society. We have done much in delegalizing racial discrimination. Little things, there is still a tremendous amount of sadness and vile acts we do to each other, and horrific events will happen, but we are getting better.



Communist Dreamer said:


> 3) Just look online. Look at all the sickening comments on YT. They're like a cancer there. Just look on any Steven Crowder video to how much we've failed at what tech has brought us, rather than should and its potential.


You are falling into the trap set by the Russians and other hate trolls have set. Those comments are flooded with the trolls that are using it to manipulate our society. They have figured out how to weaponize social media by flooding the ones they want highlights with 'views', likes, and comments to push those stories into the top of the lists. Then use the comments to flood out any actual peoples thoughts, making actual dialog impossible.



Communist Dreamer said:


> 5) When I go just about three blocks from my lovely community, at the over pass there's a tent city, where everyone was out in the cold last night. While my biggest worry was slight insomnia with waking up after a night terror right now not quite six hours later. I sometimes get those, yeah.


It sucks that we closed down all the mental health facilities in the 80's so that the Republicans could give the rich massive tax breaks. Since then we have been mostly under Republican rule who have branded anything not in the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male agenda socialism or immoral. Once the Democrats can overcome the 50 year bridge burning that the Republicans have been doing to the power of our government to keep theirs as long as possible, I think we are really poised to do some great things as a country.



Communist Dreamer said:


> 7) People have, and will always have evil in their heart. That makes me sad because I don't have any. People see a 1984 constant surveillance as a horror, I see it as the only way. Religion hasn't worked. I beat to life with my own drum, but there's sickos out there who just don't have that. We need protection from the few percent. I think it's said something like only 3% are needed to affect others lives. If someone can't do it, we haven't enriched their evil heart, we just but that genie in a bottle.


I think this sounds great, but I take a more realistic stance. We are all people, its great to say your a good person, but usually that just means you have not had to make very many no win decisions. Until push comes to shove, nobody knows how they will really react. Mostly people are just ignorant of others around them and end up hurting people not understanding how it is happening, or even worse with good intentions. The rest mostly have something that went very very wrong and we are just starting to understand how bran chemistry and everything else works so have to this point just deemed it 'evil'

I agree with surveillance, I think we need to have total access to every bit of our own data for free though and need to know if people access our data and get a small cut from them using it.


Communist Dreamer said:


> True, not everyone believes their conviction first, and is easy to lash out first about nothing at all. People truly are stupider than most give credit.


Or more predictable.


Communist Dreamer said:


> 9) You have that opinion and I respect it. But, the topics like rent control and Monopolies make me think otherwise. We can constantly print money and fake capital. You can't fake a surplus, when you clearly see a physical resource just isn't there for you to buy, no matter how much money you have.


Maybe try to consider money as a replacement to the value of one unit of labor. If it takes one hour to earn enough to eat a meal, it doesn't matter if that meal cost $5 or $50 at the end of the day really as long as it took the same effort in earning it.


Communist Dreamer said:


> Take for example. Over the last four months I was looking for a particular vintage guitar. Then I found it, and got a deal at a third of its value. Near mint condition, sounds better than others I've seen in better condition. It was like my own version of a miracle.
> At first I thought the seller was a scam, but I was so desperate, and just jumped.
> I'm glad I did. But despite capitalism, that's part of the miracle too.
> My point is, I'd have gladly spent three times for what I got now. But I couldn't over four months no matter how much I tried. Once something is gone, it's gone.
> ...


I didn't understand that last bit. Good morning to you too.


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## Grandpapy (Nov 27, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> 1) I don't see it that way. Communism is people oriented, while capitalism is thing oriented.


Commerce needs more folks like you to ignore it.


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## DaFreak (Nov 27, 2019)

DIY-HP-LED said:


> The wise learn from the past and their mistakes. America will learn from its mistakes too, or die as a free people


Because nobody has heard that line before. Please make the world a better place and never repeat that stupid quote again. It's nonsense. 2 in the hand better than one in the bush.


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 27, 2019)

hanimmal said:


> ...


1) Not the way I see Capitalism. It's a system where the Capitalist class through capital buys labor, who's only goal is to exploit the worker, in order to get more capital. With every cycle of capitalist's investment cycle, through the law of entropy, real capital goes down. Their only solution is the worker gets less of their capital than what they really did the previous correction.

2) Agree.

3) I don't agree. When people think they're anonymous, they tend to show what's truly in their heart that they pretend isn't there out of fear of getting rejected. 

4 & 5) I partially agree. Republicans and Democrats are the same, like a good cop and bad cop. You seem to be falling into the trap there's such a thing as a good side to the politics we're given, rather than find our own, and reject what they present.

7) We seem to have minor difference in this regard, so I'll let this one pass.

 Rather they have better methods of predicting, we've always been predictable.

9) That's the point. But others don't get that. They seem to think, for example, that raising minimum wage does a damn thing. All it does is make the rich richer but for everyone other than the "1%" the only thing that's accomplished is there's a new floor for the poor, and you didn't get rid of their ceiling. A partial solution within the capitalist system is price fixing goods and services with floors and ceilings, and various government programs.

I was trying to explain a resource based economy. My guitar was an example. A certain 50 year old guitar is a limited resource. Sure you can make new ones, but you can't make mine from 1970 unless they invent a time machine.
No matter the fact I was willing to pay three times the amount, I couldn't, because the guitar is just so rare. Apparently the guy was being generous, wanted fast cash, or didn't know what he had. In any event, I wasn't about to look a gift horse in the mouth, and snatched it up ASAP!
I could've been a billionaire and not got one as fast either. 
Money doesn't mean anything, and will mean less and less unless we convert to a system which values the resource, rather than the symbol which represents a possibility of acquiring the real thing you're after.
It gives us false hope, and one day we'll end up like what happened to the Confederate states. They woke up one day a millionaire, and their fiat money is worthless.
Resources like gold, land, etc, even if like this video on YT I saw which parodied Canada taking over, making the US dollar worthless. Those with actual resources rather than fiat currency will see no difference.


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## hanimmal (Nov 27, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> 1) Not the way I see Capitalism. It's a system where the Capitalist class through capital buys labor, who's only goal is to exploit the worker, in order to get more capital. With every cycle of capitalist's investment cycle, through the law of entropy, real capital goes down. Their only solution is the worker gets less of their capital than what they really did the previous correction.


Funny enough I see it as people sell their labor and use it to purchase goods and services. 

And so I wanted to see what nutty economics we are dealing with you... "Law of entropy" led me to "Thermoeconomics" which turns out to be "Heterodox economic methodology (lol love the meaningless term to try to sound more legit)", which turns out to just be another neoclassical con job. 

Real capital may degrade (accounting principles have bookkeeping methods to track this loss), but that doesn't mean that it is not replaceable, or that more and more is not built up to add to the existing system. Does your system of economics have a way to add back in real investment? You say that the only solution is that workers get less of less right? But what about if the business is growing? 



Communist Dreamer said:


> 3) I don't agree. When people think they're anonymous, they tend to show what's truly in their heart that they pretend isn't there out of fear of getting rejected.


This is not a matter of disagreement though, it is a fact that Russian bot trolls are spamming the crap out of comment sections like youtube.



Communist Dreamer said:


> 4 & 5) I partially agree. Republicans and Democrats are the same, like a good cop and bad cop. You seem to be falling into the trap there's such a thing as a good side to the politics we're given, rather than find our own, and reject what they present.


This has not been the case since the 70's. The Republican party switched to absorb the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only agenda. Left the Democrats with the responsibility to govern for the entire country. This is really the first time in the world that a country has elected leaders that (are getting closer and closer anyways) truly represent the entire nation's people understanding of our nation from different perspectives. 

You are falling into the trap that somehow a black man and middle class woman who both built themselves up to being highly successful leaders in our country is in anyway comparable to the power structure of anywhere ever. The Democrats have only actually had federal power for about 6 years. It is not the same, regardless of how it 'feels'.



Communist Dreamer said:


> Rather they have better methods of predicting, we've always been predictable.


Right on.


Communist Dreamer said:


> 9) That's the point. But others don't get that. They seem to think, for example, that raising minimum wage does a damn thing. All it does is make the rich richer but for everyone other than the "1%" the only thing that's accomplished is there's a new floor for the poor, and you didn't get rid of their ceiling. A partial solution within the capitalist system is price fixing goods and services with floors and ceilings, and various government programs.


This about what you wrote here. You understand that raising minimum wage is just a nominal adjustment, but then you say it makes the rich richer, it doesn't, it really doesn't affect them either.



Communist Dreamer said:


> I was trying to explain a resource based economy. My guitar was an example. A certain 50 year old guitar is a limited resource. Sure you can make new ones, but you can't make mine from 1970 unless they invent a time machine.
> No matter the fact I was willing to pay three times the amount, I couldn't, because the guitar is just so rare. Apparently the guy was being generous, wanted fast cash, or didn't know what he had. In any event, I wasn't about to look a gift horse in the mouth, and snatched it up ASAP!


So in this example, you are the wealthy taking advantage of the poor.



Communist Dreamer said:


> I could've been a billionaire and not got one as fast either.
> Money doesn't mean anything, and will mean less and less unless we convert to a system which values the resource, rather than the symbol which represents a possibility of acquiring the real thing you're after.
> It gives us false hope, and one day we'll end up like what happened to the Confederate states. They woke up one day a millionaire, and their fiat money is worthless.
> Resources like gold, land, etc, even if like this video on YT I saw which parodied Canada taking over, making the US dollar worthless. Those with actual resources rather than fiat currency will see no difference.


I am betting on the United States of America outlasting me, so I will go ahead and continue to use my fiat currency that is fully backed by our government. If America falls, chances are whatever gold I could scrape together in a couple lifetimes would really do much other than getting my ass robbed when I try to use it in a post apolocyltic world. I would rather have some nice heaps of compost and a seed collection than gold. Maybe toilet paper too. And socks.


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## tangerinegreen555 (Nov 27, 2019)

America has never 'loved' Trump, that's total bullshit.

53.9% of the electorate didn't vote for him in 2016.

He managed to sneak in the backdoor from a perfect storm of Russian hacking and interference, Comey announcing he was reopening the Hillary investigation a couple days before the election, low voter turnout in a half dozen key states, two candidates with more negatives than positives, Hillary was not a good campaigner or inspiring speaker, the general desire for change that almost always happens because nobody is ever satisfied, voter suppression and the outdated 18th century electoral college.

Trump has never seen a 50% approval rating let alone 60% that would tend to indicate 'love'.

The majority of America doesn't like Trump, a large percentage of republicans don't like Trump (albeit secretly because they stick together for judges, tax cuts and jesus fantasies), and the support he does have will die off in the next decade.

Trump will be stopped in 2020 by turnout alone, the 2018 election demonstrates the trend and the impeachment hearing clips will make fabulous negative ads which is what Pelosi is counting on as the consolation prize.

The most accurate polls show 50% rock solid support for impeachment for over a month now. They may not be rising but they aren't sinking either.

This is a corrupt administration easily exposed, and only 15% of the electorate is really up for grabs which could shrink to 10% or less with a massive turnout.

The only wildcards here are more Russian interference, more voter suppression and a Dem candidate who people become afraid of over losing their health insurance. Trump tried to end the ACA and it backfired. Dems would be smart to leave it alone until at least until after the election. Medicare for all is 20 years away or longer, the ACA could work with some drug and hospital price control.

And global warming is really the number one issue if you care about your kid's future. Start soon to radically cut emissions or watch the planet burn and flood.

And we could use a little good luck.


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## knucklehead bob (Nov 27, 2019)

hanimmal said:


> I am betting on the United States of America outlasting me, so I will go ahead and continue to use my fiat currency that is fully backed by our government.


United States currency(Petro Dollar) is backed with the barrel of a gun & the threat of death & destruction , that is all .


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## gwheels (Nov 27, 2019)

But he wont get impeached.


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## hanimmal (Nov 27, 2019)

knucklehead bob said:


> United States currency(Petro Dollar) is backed with the barrel of a gun & the threat of death & destruction , that is all .


Well that has pretty much been good enough for all of human civilization, so for the foreseeable future it will have to do.


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## hanimmal (Nov 27, 2019)

gwheels said:


> But he wont get impeached.


I am not sure, I think it is all about timing, the house will for sure impeach him on breaking the law with obstructing justice by withholding the whistle blower complaint for longer than legally allowed and commanding his minions to not adhere to the legally issued congressional subpoena.

The Republicans are the wild card, Trump has to hope that they are not left with nothing to lose after the upcoming primaries for their senate seats. I think they are doing a combo of waiting to force Trump to not shut down the government with not signing the budget (backlash would end Trump immediately), and then to make sure they have him on a leash for their senate runs. If they stall past the election, Trump is screwed either way I would bet.


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 27, 2019)

hanimmal said:


> ..


1) We don't get more than what we put in. Capitalism is a game. Even losers are winners, if you have enough capital. Every cycle we get less output. In my view, capital to gain a resource is wrong. Resources should be preserved. Capitalism has to constantly spend, and be kept track of, which is another real resource waste to preserve a fake one.

4 & 5) Both Republicans and Democrats prey on the weaker. I don't like either, and don't subscribe to the view of "lesser of two evils." Hillary was just as scummy in some ways, and worse than Trump in others. It's worthless for me to figure out a Nash Equilibrium for a game I don't play anyway.

9) It does cause the rich to get richer. The poor are temporarily fooled into thinking they're better off when that's not true at all, and don't fight back. Like when Bernie Sanders made Amazon pay for their greed with better pay, but all it did was cause them to fire employees or give the current ones less hours. Yet, Bernie pretends he's some sort of hero. How do we know he wasn't working behind closed doors with Jeff Bezos and that wasn't a big scam he paid Bernie to help him with?

That's the first time I've ever been called wealthy. I'm just a starving artist working pay check to pay check whenever someone needs me. I try not to think about my ideals when it comes to commerce as Grandpappy called it, and mind my business in that regard. Things just get too complicated otherwise and are a distraction to my ultimate goals.

I just hope I'm remembered when I kick the bucket. That's all I really care about.

Oh btw, it's "funnily enough." Using, "funny enough," is grammatically incorrect. Funny is a noun, what you want is an adverb. It might sound weird, but English is a screwed up language.


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## hanimmal (Nov 27, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> 1) We don't get more than what we put in. Capitalism is a game. Even losers are winners, if you have enough capital. Every cycle we get less output. In my view, capital to gain a resource is wrong. Resources should be preserved. Capitalism has to constantly spend, and be kept track of, which is another real resource wasting to preserve a fake one.


I think this doesn't make sense, mind using an example please.



Communist Dreamer said:


> 4 & 5) Both Republicans and Democrats prey on the weaker. I don't like either, and don't subscribe to the view of "lesser of two evils." Hillary was just as scummy in some ways, and worse than other. It's worthless for me to figure out a Nash Equilibrium for a game I don't play anyway.


What you might try to understand is that over the last decades Hillary Clinton was trolled hard by the Republicans and later by the Russians to trick everyone into believing the worst about Hillary so that they could push the 'both sides' con. 



Communist Dreamer said:


> 9) It does cause the rich to get richer. The poor are temporarily fooled into thinking they're better off when that's not true at all, and don't fight back. Like when Bernie Sanders made Amazon pay for their greed with better pay, but all it did was cause them to fire employees or give the current ones less hours. Yet, Bernie pretends he's some sort of hero. How do we know he wasn't working behind closed doors with Jeff Bezos and that wasn't a big scam he paid Bernie to help him with?


What causes the rich to get richer is that they reinvest their money so that it works for them by helping other people who have a idea and need the funding to make it reality.

Idk what you mean by the poor. but I don't think Bezos would have needed anyones help to fire people in his own company. 



Communist Dreamer said:


> That's the first time I've ever been called wealthy. I'm just a starving artist working pay check to pay check whenever someone needs me. I try not to think about my ideals when it comes to commerce as Grandpappy called it, and mind my business in that regard. Things just get to complicated otherwise and are a distraction to my ultimate goals.


If you are able to live a life to call yourself a starving artist I do not consider you poor. I was just pointing out that it is easy to forget the power dynamics on a smaller scale is the same as a larger scale. 



Communist Dreamer said:


> I just hope I'm remembered when I kick the bucket. That's all I really care about.


I aim a bit lower, I just hope I don't go screaming.


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 27, 2019)

Ok example time.
In a resource based economy, what's needed is based upon a what resources we have available, and how best to use them.

In a Capitalist based economy, those with the most capital want to preserve their capital, the resources are just a means to an end. Rather than finding the most efficient use of resources, they use the most efficient resources capital can acquire, even if that means a less efficient use of resources.


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## Grandpapy (Nov 27, 2019)

Meanwhile commerce says it's ok for me to be without elec. on the coldest day of the year.

So much winning.


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## DIY-HP-LED (Nov 27, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> Because nobody has heard that line before. Please make the world a better place and never repeat that stupid quote again. It's nonsense. 2 in the hand better than one in the bush.


Apparently you haven't. Did you ever make a mistake? Did you learn from it? It works that way for countries too, they often amend their constitutions and pass new laws, just like America will do. Trump will be a bad memory soon enough and when he's dead or in prison he will be off twitter, in fact the judge(s) who will preside over his case(s) are learning right now and will muzzle Donald as soon as the trial begins. They will know that that will have to gag him just like Roger Stone, they learn from experience, you should too.


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## DaFreak (Nov 27, 2019)

knucklehead bob said:


> United States currency(Petro Dollar) is backed with the barrel of a gun & the threat of death & destruction , that is all .


Good enough for me


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## DaFreak (Nov 27, 2019)

DIY-HP-LED said:


> Apparently you haven't. Did you ever make a mistake? Did you learn from it? It works that way for countries too, they often amend their constitutions and pass new laws, just like America will do. Trump will be a bad memory soon enough and when he's dead or in prison he will be off twitter, in fact the judge(s) who will preside over his case(s) are learning right now and will muzzle Donald as soon as the trial begins. They will know that that will have to gag him just like Roger Stone, they learn from experience, you should too.


Complete nonsense. History is not taught so people learn from mistakes


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## Fogdog (Nov 27, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> Maybe I've failed with you, but there's more communists in America than ever, when at one time just being accused landed you in prison. Now you can be one of those freaks besides the Jehovah's Witness preaching the wonders of communism at the court house, and neither of you get locked up.
> 70 years ago neither of those things was true.
> Gay was considered a mental illness, now we got marriage rights.
> We didn't get those rights from voting, we tried. California voted against same sex marriage.
> ...


Declarative statements fail to convince. I think I'm going to put you on ignore, tty.


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## DIY-HP-LED (Nov 27, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> Complete nonsense. History is not taught so people learn from mistakes


History is taught for a variety of reasons and some people do learn lessons from it, they often end up running countries and employ those lessons to make changes. Take Trump's treason and Russian interference in the American election for instance, lessons are being learned and changes will be made. H.R.-1 for instance is the result of such a process and will remove the republicans unfair advantages and new gun laws will help to correct legislative mistakes. Racism is now widely seen as a national security threat thanks to Trump and new hate speech and crime laws will treat it as such, lessons learned and changes will be made.


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 27, 2019)

Fogdog said:


> Declarative statements fail to convince. I think I'm going to put you on ignore, tty.


Awe shucks. Bye!


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## potroastV2 (Nov 27, 2019)

MidwestGorilla219 said:


> It's public record dude and many news channels have talked about it. Oh that's right we act like children here I forget, don't like something then it's not true. Pathetic.




It was a joke, so lighten up ya hoosier!


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## hanimmal (Nov 27, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> Ok example time.
> In a resource based economy, what's needed is based upon a what resources we have available, and how best to use them.


Sounds good, but who says what is needed based on those resources, and who decides how best to use them?


Communist Dreamer said:


> In a Capitalist based economy, those with the most capital want to preserve their capital, the resources are just a means to an end. Rather than finding the most efficient use of resources, they use the most efficient resources capital can acquire, even if that means a less efficient use of resources.


When you say 'capital' what do you mean? Are you talking business, or just in general. 

Like as a person, I want to keep my house, my access to cars, food, bills for electricity/water/etc, so do you mean that is capital for a person, I can buy that. Nobody wants to lose those things. 

The problem I see with your system is innovation. The soviets proved that when people don't have a reason to do more than what they are told to do that is about all you will get from their production.


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 27, 2019)

hanimmal said:


> Sounds good, but who says what is needed based on those resources, and who decides how best to use them?
> 
> When you say 'capital' what do you mean? Are you talking business, or just in general.
> 
> ...


The workers and society at large get to decide, who are most affected, not the greedy capitalist.

From Das Kapital:
_Capital cannot be created from circulation because equal exchange of commodities creates no surplus value and unequal exchange of commodities changes the distribution of wealth, but it still does not produce surplus-value. Capital cannot be created without circulation either because labor creates value within the general formula. Thus, Marx writes that "t must have its origin both in circulation and not in circulation". However, a "double result" remains, namely that the capitalist must buy commodities at their value, sell them at their value and yet conclude the process with more money than at the beginning. The profit seemingly originates both inside and outside the general formula._

Back in the late 90s there was this idea during the dot com boom, everyone would work more at home, and not have to commute, called telecommuting. That never came about because managers like the idea of surplus-value, where they see the employee toiling and suffering in a cubicle.

_According to Marx's theory, surplus value is equal to the new value created by workers in excess of their own labor-cost, which is appropriated by the capitalist as profit when products are sold._


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## hanimmal (Nov 27, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> The workers and society at large get to decide


That is just capitalism. We the people. With every purchase we make we are voting with our dollars. If we decide to not be political and just look for the best deals, the individual can make that decision, but people can also decide to buy what that guy is selling or not, validating (or not) their decision on what is best.

Pollution needs to be ended and we need to socialize things like cleaning up our globe, that is an area that government is better at directing, large public works, when they start to try to micromanage individuals is when they go too far and it has never worked out, we are not ants.


Communist Dreamer said:


> Back in the late 90s there was this idea during the dot com boom, everyone would work more at home, and not have to commute, called telecommuting. That never came about because managers like the idea of surplus-value, where they see the employee toiling and suffering in a cubicle.
> 
> _According to Marx's theory, surplus value is equal to the new value created by workers in excess of their own labor-cost, which is appropriated by the capitalist as profit when products are sold._


I try to not decide that I know what others are thinking with as much certainty as you seem to possess. I would offer that the people in charge of businesses over the last 30 years did not have the benefit of growing up with the connectivity that we have today. As people around 50 today start to retire is when you will see the last of the people who didn't have internet in education. Those are the generations that will truly be able to grasp the ability to not have to travel everywhere when they could just look at it online and finally release us from being confined to our employers eyeballs. 

Any economic concept invented before computers is a dinosaur and should just be used as history of economics or back drop to how the formulas today are derived. There is some great rule of thumbs and guidance to better choices, but the industrial age was too dirty. We need to be smarter with our decisions, but that doesn't mean we need a overseer to tell us what we can have/earn.


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## Communist Dreamer (Nov 27, 2019)

@hanimmal We have those things despite Capitalism, rather than because of. Sometimes we get lucky and have "good" boss/master that we work for. 
Technically Capitalism is amoral, not immoral. That's the very problem. 
Capitalism lacks morals, and without a system of morality in place, those with the most money buy their way to what's moral, and try to convince us of their morals, through psyops, or as they like to call their marketing department; which also includes the MSM, etc.
As we become more and more secular, we need to develop a replacement global community religion once held. 
I'm of the opinion why communism has failed before is it was too atheistic.
People need freedom of, along with protection from those who would use their freedom as a means to exploit.
Another problem is alienation, which fuels our depression and feeling of helplessness in capitalistic countries especially.
While Marx described these problems, he came to the wrong conclusion. 
There's more great thinkers these days. We can't hold Marx as some sort of god or prophet. He was just a human too, from a time before the new problems that exist today. So of course even if he was completely correct about his time, which I don't believe either, his writings definitely conflict with the problems of today.


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## hanimmal (Nov 27, 2019)

Communist Dreamer said:


> @hanimmal We have those things despite Capitalism, rather than because of. Sometimes we get lucky and have "good" boss/master that we work for.
> Technically Capitalism is amoral, not immoral. That's the very problem.
> Capitalism lacks morals, and without a system of morality in place, those with the most money buy their way to what's moral, and try to convince us of their morals, through psyops, or as they like to call their marketing department; which also includes the MSM, etc.
> As we become more and more secular, we need to develop a replacement global community religion once held.
> ...


I read a whole lot of supposition and submission in what you are talking about. Humanity has done some absolutely amazing things and every attempt to stop it has ended in some truly horrific events.


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