# perennial cannabis



## wristychronicles (May 26, 2012)

I know people breed for taste flavor, height, weight. I want to breed for a cold hardy perennial plant. Has anyone tried this? I'm going to unbury my outdoor girls after harvest and dig up the crown of the plant and a smaller cut of her root mass, bag all of it and place it in the fridge, to keep it fresh from drying out. I will try to reveg next spring or maybe even indoors a couple weeks later. Im am doing this with a handful of strains. IF ANY of the plant crowns stay green enough in the fridge I might have a shot. Then of course the breeding begins. Am I crazy or has this been done? the obvious goal it to eventually get a plant that can winter over with some mulch on the crown outdoors and then wakes it self up in the spring with out help from me, aside from some possible mild root trimming. It would be awesome to plant them and then never plant again. It also might take me 15 years to accomplish lol. but shit as long as im not dead ill have time. peace guys, im off to work.


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## cues (May 26, 2012)

Definately interesting. Remember that most plants that are thought of as 'annual' are only thought of as such because that's the easiest way to grow it given the climate in a particular place. 
Not sure about the fridge idea though. Maybe better keeping them indoors in as high a temp as possible. 
The main problem I see is that when it comes to harvest, it's the nature of cannabis that the leaves die from the bottom upwards so you may not end up with enough leaves to start the new seasons growth. Also, I would imagine that each season would end up with a larger, leggier plant. 
Good luck though.


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## wristychronicles (May 26, 2012)

The fridge locks the plant up into a dormancy state, as it does with most rhizomes and even the obvious fruits and veggies we eat everyday. However, I was more so mentioning the fridge as a way to see if the plant can tolerate a "winter" under a more controlled circumstance. Leaving it in the heat might cause rot, which is something I would like to avoid. As for leggy-ness its basically a reveg and they dont really get leggy. I was going to see if I could do this WITHOUT leaves on it, and have the rootstock wake up and push out new growth, making it a perennial. Im wondering which dominant, sativa or indica , would be a better candidate. Although not every idea is a good one..Some people have the room from a nice perennial addition to their garden


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## Nukebisket (May 26, 2012)

Many scientists believe that cannabis was a perennial and just recently in the past 10K-15K years it became an annual. Interesting experiment!


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## cues (May 26, 2012)

wristychronicles said:


> The fridge locks the plant up into a dormancy state, as it does with most rhizomes and even the obvious fruits and veggies we eat everyday. However, I was more so mentioning the fridge as a way to see if the plant can tolerate a "winter" under a more controlled circumstance. Leaving it in the heat might cause rot, which is something I would like to avoid. As for leggy-ness its basically a reveg and they dont really get leggy. I was going to see if I could do this WITHOUT leaves on it, and have the rootstock wake up and push out new growth, making it a perennial. Im wondering which dominant, sativa or indica , would be a better candidate. Although not every idea is a good one..Some people have the room from a nice perennial addition to their garden


The point is, as far as I'm aware, Cannabis isn't a Rhizomatous plant. It has normal roots and reproduces by seed. You need to be 're-vegging' it, not hoping it will send out an entire new plant from a root-stock. If it did, we would all be doing it. You would be better off treating it as stoloniferous and taking air-layers. Then again, better still to take cuttings whilst in veg...Hang on, we do!
Put simply, it's just not in the plants genetic make-up to reproduce that way. Interesting idea though. I want to grow a bonsai weed plant one day (in perpetual veg) but have yet to find a variety with small enough leaves.


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## wristychronicles (May 27, 2012)

I'm only talking about line breeding for essentially 2 things, cold hardiness, and characteristics that encourage a fast and healthy reveg. Its not in the plants genetic makeup currently, that's not to say it has to stay that way. I mean shit, variegated sativa would be cool would it not? White or gold leaf margins on the fan leaves, genetic mutation is what makes most things unique. Cues have you ever tried micro prop? Once you see 30 clones emerge from a 2 inch piece of foliage it really makes you marvel at what we have to power to accomplish.  vape is ready, brb


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## cues (May 28, 2012)

No, never done micro-prop. Looks like hard work! Air-layered rubber plans and clematis, plus layered and cloned many plants (including trees!) but that's about all.
I suspect that the biggest problem you will have is that thc landrace varieties from the colder coutries tend to be low THC 'hemp'. I guess what you need to do is cross a hemp plant with a high thc plant from the equatorial regions and try and keep the high thc traits of one with the low temp traits of the other.


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## pharmacoping (May 28, 2012)

this would be a genetic coding change and would require gene transfer in a sterile environment, or..... is possible by micro grafting marijuana onto hops rootstock. good luck in a garden though. 

great experiment !


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## Chuckonit (May 28, 2012)

I wish this post was a few years older so I could ask you for some updates. It's very interesting and may be just crazy enough to work. And if it does I want a clone!

Good luck!


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## wristychronicles (May 28, 2012)

hey pharma, im glad you're here, you my friend are a badass. I was reading some of your stuff earlier after I posted this, its refreshing and wicked cool. Im a super plant nerd with 7 acres of hops plants at my disposal, I grow them for distribution to micro brewers. I also grow pinot noir and some other really interesting plants...and Cues right on man, Ive taken cuttings from soo many plants to clone out as well as air layered kiwis and anything else that caught my eye that didn't take to rooting as well. Its obsessive once you learn to graft or learn the best plants to roots directly from cuttings. Willows are hands down the easiest clone, figs are pretty quick to clone aswell, Its all about trial and error, and learning from the inevitable mistakes. The more you know, the more ya grow


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## Coho (May 28, 2012)

Cannabis hop would make a hellava ale..


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## pharmacoping (May 29, 2012)

It would just be cannabis, with hops added, and It does not taste good, but is potent. 
they are not a hybrid mix of smokable hops., just a graft my friend.


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## pharmacoping (May 29, 2012)

wristychronicles said:


> hey pharma, im glad you're here, you my friend are a badass. I was reading some of your stuff earlier after I posted this, its refreshing and wicked cool. Im a super plant nerd with 7 acres of hops plants at my disposal, I grow them for distribution to micro brewers. I also grow pinot noir and some other really interesting highlyplants...and Cues right on man, Ive taken cuttings from soo many plants to clone out as well as air layered kiwis and anything else that caught my eye that didn't take to rooting as well. Its obsessive once you learn to graft or learn the best plants to roots directly from cuttings. Willows are hands down the easiest clone, figs are pretty quick to clone aswell, Its all about trial and error, and learning from the inevitable mistakes. The more you know, the more ya grow


highly addictive for sure.. I wanna visit the hops farm


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## pharmacoping (May 29, 2012)

cues said:


> No, never done micro-prop. Looks like hard work! Air-layered rubber plans and clematis, plus layered and cloned many plants (including trees!) but that's about all.
> I suspect that the biggest problem you will have is that thc landrace varieties from the colder coutries tend to be low THC 'hemp'. I guess what you need to do is cross a hemp plant with a high thc plant from the equatorial regions and try and keep the high thc traits of one with the low temp traits of the other.



......with a Punnets Square, thousands of dollars of lab tests, and years of growing hundreds of species, hybrids. genetics make a perennial plant. mj is programmed to live, produce seeds die. the roots do not winter like a perennial, assuring the die off. Cold hardy marijuana already exists. long hairs have been bringing their plant indoors to re veg, for decades, not technically a perennial, but good nuff for hippies.


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## pharmacoping (May 29, 2012)

now, if you're talkin bout hops with thc..shooodywop bing bang....any of you tissue culture/micropropagate ? in MI ?


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## Alter Ego (Jun 3, 2012)

Nukebisket said:


> Many scientists believe that cannabis was a perennial and just recently in the past 10K-15K years it became an annual. Interesting experiment!


Hey, thats very interesting. Is there anywhere I can read about that? Like any articles or link? Thank you.


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## smokersteve (Jun 3, 2012)

http://www.seaofseeds.com/product-detail.php?cat_url=The-Doggies-Nuts-Seeds&prod_url=doggies-nuts-big-bad-john


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## montanamike1 (Jun 3, 2012)

As someone already mentioned, cannabis is not a rhizomes plant it is a seed bearing annual. Perennials all reproduce via the root system, like alliums and bulbs, while annuals reproduce by seed (except trees bushes and a few other exceptions). I love the intent, but I'd focus solely on the cold hardy aspect with strains like NL and matanuska thunder. Cannabis can re veg and I have personally seen cannabis trees from warmer climes that are delicately harvested, although for most people this style is highly impractical. Auto flowers are what we use to handle the short growing seasons in the northwest


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## cues (Jun 6, 2012)

Interesting mentioning the hops but I thought this has already been well documented to have been tried and failed many many times.
Hackberry, however, has recently been discovered to be part of the Genus Cannabaceae and I don't know of anyone who has tried grafting to a Hackberry yet. However, if breeding through seeds were possible, I suspect that it would have already occurred in the wild if it was feasible.


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## pharmacoping (Jun 7, 2012)

cues said:


> Interesting mentioning the hops but I thought this has already been well documented to have been tried and failed many many times.
> Hackberry, however, has recently been discovered to be part of the Genus Cannabaceae and I don't know of anyone who has tried grafting to a Hackberry yet. However, if breeding through seeds were possible, I suspect that it would have already occurred in the wild if it was feasible.


you're correct, and tried hard too, just like the 70's guys trying to use heat lamps and blacklights to grow, and failed. Today is a new day though. In vitro culture exactly like this is being done in citizen science labs(closets) all over the world. Only in the last 100 years did science move all the study out of your hands and into the profit machines. 

These unions of different genus material are routinely paired, electrically, chemically, and mechanically. Chemical is the only affordable method to me, available, cheap and worked well when I practiced. The reason there is little mention of this is because everyone of these procedures hold patents, and are rented to flower producers, etc. patent infringement can be punished like treason today. Plus, dozens of patents for this exact subject have already been granted, and are jointly owned, by.......
The army has sprouts that bioluminesce in the presence of tnt contituents, I've worked with those sprouts, they are real. There are plants producing human replacement tissue, warfare toxins, many synthetic drugs, and more. 

I have seen bioluminescing christmas trees, (soon to be released), (and a bioluminescing mj plant.) with plans of planting along roadsides instead of lights. this shit is real, don't be scared though, our Monsanto has it wrapped up, with the help and financing, of It's government. 

Take a look at Morgellons, if you're curious of the impact of their research. They have successfully integrated plant material into the human genome, via GMO and the bacterium and antibiotics used in the pasture. and it is operating now, actually an epidemic. 

dont kill the messenger, I dont want to argue, or debate, and google has all the answers, because this is all I know.


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## wristychronicles (Jun 7, 2012)

A glowing house plant would be hard not to buy..


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## wristychronicles (Jun 7, 2012)

Pharma, from what I have gathered and my multiple failed attempts at micro prop (some attempts went on to live longer than others), would it be possible to just accidentally manipulate something such as leaf structure? As my attempting micro prop continue, I always look back and think man I should have cleaned everything better but now im wondering if those earlier tries would have pulled through could the plant have sprouted into something containing thc but looking more alien? I mean accidentally contaminate, change the leaf, and bam grow that shit in flower beds all over the country.


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## pharmacoping (Jun 7, 2012)

wristychronicles said:


> Pharma, from what I have gathered and my multiple failed attempts at micro prop (some attempts went on to live longer than others), would it be possible to just accidentally manipulate something such as leaf structure? As my attempting micro prop continue, I always look back and think man I should have cleaned everything better but now im wondering if those earlier tries would have pulled through could the plant have sprouted into something containing thc but looking more alien? I mean accidentally contaminate, change the leaf, and bam grow that shit in flower beds all over the country.


UV light is key for this,and drugs, synthetic hormones,other plant constituents(colchicine) in vitro, and not a leaf. cut the eraser size tip top of a cutting, brand new growth, called meristem culturing. sterilize it, cut off and shave off the dead stuff when finished, seal it up. There are a few ways to do that, and we often see these samll changes express themselves as three leaf clones or similar. these are recovering damaged dna, and can be caused by a few different techniques. there are a couple different bacteria that are used to "trojan horse" the coding of the marijuana plant. We call this Bio Jacking, or GeneJack. basically a(jelly fish glow) gene is cultured on a (safe ecoli) bacteria until dividing like crazy, the to get it into the mj callus an antibiotic is used to kill the ecoli, then rinsed, then cultured with the magic other(agrobacterium) cultured, and "inserted" "naturally" in the mj plant, where it will genejack the plant, multiply(glo gene) and express. I played for years with the firefly glow because it was easier to get/work with, but could only flouresce in an a calcium rich plant...started thinking about blinking plants when they need something, or plants producing their own lights..stoner stuff, anyway. found the isolated jelly gene, ...and "got this buddy to explore some things he had no idea were patented until approached, educated, and stopped". scared, I only use non patented(natural) culture techniques now. and think my buddy does the same. The baddest ass thing I learned how to do was to breed in vitro with homemade artificial seeds, using an over the counter medicine. literally two genetic codes of two mj plants are joined, not grafted, and share genetics, so in a couple months a plant can be f1'd and stabalized, and also bred for specific traits, in months, not years. 

the agro is found in nature, if you know what to look for. theres a pic of one on an mj plant, just sayin. its the exact location of an infection that "naturally" took place, I swear ! plus, it was a buddy's, and he moved to australia too.


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## wristychronicles (Jun 7, 2012)

I didn't mean by using a leaf cutting. I meant using the most viable mj plant tissues, can I manipulate the shape of the fan leaf ? If the result was a different shape it would be unrecognizable.


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## pharmacoping (Jun 8, 2012)

ahh, google roses with thc


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## Nackyboy (Jul 24, 2012)

wristychronicles said:


> I know people breed for taste flavor, height, weight. I want to breed for a cold hardy perennial plant. Has anyone tried this? I'm going to unbury my outdoor girls after harvest and dig up the crown of the plant and a smaller cut of her root mass, bag all of it and place it in the fridge, to keep it fresh from drying out. I will try to reveg next spring or maybe even indoors a couple weeks later. Im am doing this with a handful of strains. IF ANY of the plant crowns stay green enough in the fridge I might have a shot. Then of course the breeding begins. Am I crazy or has this been done? the obvious goal it to eventually get a plant that can winter over with some mulch on the crown outdoors and then wakes it self up in the spring with out help from me, aside from some possible mild root trimming. It would be awesome to plant them and then never plant again. It also might take me 15 years to accomplish lol. but shit as long as im not dead ill have time. peace guys, im off to work.


I love this idea, but as far as I understand putting the crown in a refrigerator would do nothing other than slow the rate of respiration and keep the tissues slightly more viable for a few weeks maybe months, cannabis lacks a vernalization requirement so it would not be stimulated by an extended cold period. Also, comments others have made about not having leaves or stems to regrow from, well that is irrelevant, cannabis contains dormant buds below the surface which can be made to emerge using auxin and cytokinin type hormones and many of them will just naturally emerge from which new stems can arise, but if you went through enough strains (I'm sure it would take hundreds of strains and thousands of phenos) you might be able to find one which reliably survives using the methods you mentioned, its a great idea!


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## Da Almighty Jew (Jul 24, 2012)

There are some cannabis plants that wee breed to be perennials or they just happen to be that way. I have seen 1 or 2 of them on the attitude. I think Doggies Nuts offers some genetics that happens to be perrenials.


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## Nackyboy (Jul 24, 2012)

Da Almighty Jew said:


> There are some cannabis plants that wee breed to be perennials or they just happen to be that way. I have seen 1 or 2 of them on the attitude. I think Doggies Nuts offers some genetics that happens to be perrenials.


read the actual description. they say "The cannabis seeds and not so commonly the plant can get over winter and re-emerge come the spring, as in this little, or should we say big beauty will auto flower once it is established - if left to be, it will set cannabis seeds, then these cannabis seeds will grow and then these plants will do the same thing so on and so forth ad infinitum!" 

https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/the-doggies-nuts-seeds-big-bad-john/prod_3154.html

it sounds to me that they've just found a really precocious ruderalis characteristic plant and bred it with higher potency strains and its really just the seeds that make it "perennial" they do say that its not common but is possible the plants will be perennial but they're so damned expensive I don't know of any detailed experiments to confirm it


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## d4n (May 30, 2013)

Old thread but apparently this has been done, all for the low price of $200,000 from bc seeds LMFAO! It's called "forever buds".


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## Moontoc (Jun 14, 2013)

wristychronicles,
Have you tried grafting? I have heard and read some things of what you are attempting having been done by grafting and re-grafting two or more plants back into themselves to provide the genetics you want. It may take a few generations to find a stable strain, but isn't that your ultimate goal? a stable strain capable of tolerating your weather?
You graft and reg-raft the the plants back into themselves multiple times seeking your most desirable traits taking clones and seeing how they perform. The strains you want the most genes out of you obviously re-graft in more than the others. 
Eventually you make a branch that has the genes you want, clone it and you make a mother plant and make more clones and later, if you like, seeds.


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## wristychronicles (Jun 27, 2013)

Yeah, im about to post a video on grafting. The last years crown rotted out overt Winter,so im running some other cold Hardy cultivars outdoor this year the grafting i mainly do on indoor mother plants.one root stock 8 flavors


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## wristychronicles (Jun 27, 2013)

It wouldn't be perennial but more ever green if i get a strain that pull through a mild winter


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## ArCaned (Jul 11, 2013)

It would be awsome if you could make it grow like a tree, flowering each year. But sadly I think it's gonna be a challenge!


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## EverythingsHazy (Jul 11, 2013)

If they are going to do genetic work with cannabis to improve it, it would be smarter to just make a tch producing mint plant or somethign that comes back and spreads with insane vigor and hardiness with a killer growth rate. It wouldn't even be cannabis at that point, just mint that makes certain cannabinoids to get you high. However, those 'perennial' seed producers on attitude look cool... Do regular canabis seeds die in cold temps? They survive in the fridge according to articles so how cold can they get before dying? IF they can take low freezing temps then they might as well be sold as that kind of "perrenial" too cuz if you let them drop seed it will survive the winter and grow in the spring.


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## pharmacoping (Sep 1, 2013)

Moontoc said:


> wristychronicles,
> Have you tried grafting? I have heard and read some things of what you are attempting having been done by grafting and re-grafting two or more plants back into themselves to provide the genetics you want. It may take a few generations to find a stable strain, but isn't that your ultimate goal? a stable strain capable of tolerating your weather?
> You graft and reg-raft the the plants back into themselves multiple times seeking your most desirable traits taking clones and seeing how they perform. The strains you want the most genes out of you obviously re-graft in more than the others.
> Eventually you make a branch that has the genes you want, clone it and you make a mother plant and make more clones and later, if you like, seeds.


Unfortunately grafting will not alter the genetic codes of the plant no matter how many times performed. It will result in an original set code plant with different stems growing from it. When it dies it will not come back grafted again, the seeds will only correspond with the exact genetics of the branch grafted. Think of all the organ recipients eventually turning into their original donor bodies again? I used to graft cup winner bouquets for moms, to lighten the plant count. I sold them all, and culture/clone now.


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