# White Poison - 2 liter Hempy SOG



## Xare (Mar 23, 2010)

First off, thanks to all of RIU who taught me the Hempy Method.

I would like to show you how I apply it to a simple SOG grow.



Genetics:

White Poison is a F1 hybrid of White Widow x Durban Poison. WP for short. 

Its a Sativa Dominant hybrid that has an "up" high without a long flowering time. From what I can tell this phenotype expresses the white widow trichome trait along with the purple and sativa high of durban poison. 



Space:

I have a simple veg and flowering chamber made out of plastic and a wood frame. 

4"w x 3"l x 4"h veg and 4"w x 4"l x 5"h flowering area 



Lighting:
 
In the veg chamber I have a 4 bulb 4 foot T5 florescent with blue vegetative lights. On 18/6 lighting

And the flower area has a 600 watt HPS ran off a digital ballast. On 12/12 lighting



Ventilation:

The flower room is on a thermostat that runs a fan bringing in fresh air. Its set to come on @ 76 degrees.

There is an oscillating fan in the flowering area. I have it hung from the ceiling with wire and its upside down blowing over the tops of the plants. 24/7

Veg chamber has a small out-take fan, fresh air is drawn in from the flower area by displacement.



Media and Method:

75% Perlite to 25% Vermiculite - so 3 parts perlite to 1 part vermiculite 

Yes, Hempy SOG ! Learned Hempy from the Hempy Collective Thread.

I have done 2 liter hempy SOG's before, this time will be with only White Poison

25 rooted clones will go into two liter hempy buckets. 5 rows of 5 under the 600 watt HPS



Water and Nutrients:

Well water that is Hard and Alkaline. 8-9 PH

So with my well water its best to use Hard Water Formulated Nutes.

I use Hard Water FloraMicro from General Hydroponics with FloraBloom. 

Lucas Formula at full strength 8 micro to 16 bloom per gallon PH'ed to 6.0

This is used for veg and flower stage. Water only flushing is done as necessary. Monitor the PH level of the hempy reservoir to keep it around 6.0



Cloning:

I do my clones via a homemade bubble cloner. Its a rubbermaid turned into a 40 spot cloner. I used a foam pool raft to make collars for my cuttings. There is an aquariam thermostat to keep the temps around 72 f. also there is 2 airstones and the air pump. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Ok, back in January I was gifted two White Poison Clones from a breeder friend.   








They were a bit wilty from their trip and they had infestations of spider mites and powdery mildew lol. First thing I took them out of that soil and setup a mini bubble cloner to help them get over the shock. 

I rooted them for a week or so in the bubble cloner before transplanting into a hempy.








For the Spider Mites I killed them with "Hot Shot no pest strip" I had handy from previous problems  Then for the powdery mildew I sprayed it with Greencure. Its a Potassium Bicarbonate based fungicide. I also tried to remove infected leafs. 


2 months pass and now I have two mothers of WP !


cut a:








cut a:








and cut b:







cut b:








cut b:









And this morning I took about 20 cuttings from each mother.

I used these cuttings to fill up my bubble cloner. The cuts got 5 hours of darkness right after being put into the cloner. This helps to prevent wilting / shock. 



WP Cuttings day 0:









This is what the mothers look like after the cuttings are removed:














This is a small sample of the white poison strain:








Macro shots 100 x magnification:































Basics of the 2 liter Hempy:


A Hempy Bucket can be done in any container. I have chosen smaller 2 liter pots because the method iam applying here is a SOG. My goal is to get one large bud per plant with very little branching. Easy to Trim at Harvest and it makes for top quality smoke. 

I use soda bottles with the top cut off, the bottom painted black as a prevention step for algae. The hempy holes are 2 and 1/4 inches up from the bottom of the 2 liter. This makes the reservoir of the hempy bucket. 










I water when the hempy bucket is dry. For flowering plants that is every other day. Vegging plants do not drink as fast. 

It takes two gallons of water with nutes to feed 25 hempy clones. Each clone gets about 9 ounces of water. So I mix up 2 gallons of nutes in a 5 gallon bucket and divvy out a dose to each hempy. 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Iam Excited to start off this White Poison Hempy grow.

Today the clones were taken and Ill show you this grow through clone to veg to flower to harvest. 

You are all welcome to join in or just watch. But the end should be around 1st of August. 





- Xare


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## tom__420 (Mar 23, 2010)

Subscribed bro this should turn out nice
Everything is looking good


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## headstrng117 (Mar 23, 2010)

Lookin good man, those moms were doing great for being in a 2 liter! Good work


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## Xare (Mar 23, 2010)

Yea those moms seem healthy, no sign of infection since they were small. 

For the last week they have been drinking once a day, because of their size. And they have been tolerating an acidic PH. 

They will be re-vegged in the veg chamber to take cuts for outdoor 2010.

But I don't plan on keeping mothers. Instead, after rooting these clones I will keep them in veg till they are at least 12 inches tall. By then they have a few branches to clone for the next rotation and they can be placed into flower.


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## GypsyBush (Mar 24, 2010)

AWESOME...!!!!

I'm subscribing....


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## Xare (Mar 24, 2010)

Heya GypsyBush,

Glad to have you along for the ride on my new journal thread


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## tom__420 (Mar 24, 2010)

Potassium Bicarbonate is baking soda essentially, if you run out of greencure I would use a baking soda mix for the PM


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## headstrng117 (Mar 24, 2010)

Cant wait to see how this turns out. Scribed


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## notoriousb (Mar 24, 2010)

Im high and scribed man


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## KushcreationsZ (Mar 24, 2010)

pullin up a chair 4 this 1 .. hey xare i got a question lik how often do u have to water ur mothers and clones in veg?


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## Xare (Mar 24, 2010)

The mothers were fed every other day for the most part. 

For clones, I place them in a hempy bucket when they are fully rooted.

That first week they don't drink much at all. The roots are getting established. I fill the rez up about half way, and let the roots find the food at bottom. 

After that a feeding will last 3-4 days for the smaller vegging plants. Till they start getting bigger. 


Environment also plays a role in how fast the plants drink.


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## That 5hit (Mar 24, 2010)

why do you use this



> 75% Perlite to 25% Vermiculite


why not 100% perlite
or 100% vermiculite


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## IAm5toned (Mar 24, 2010)

i hear the vermiculite retains too much moisture, ideal for root rot.... which is why you dont use high ratios of it.
the perlite allows air in, and the vermiculite retains moisture. also vermiculite is kinda rough on roots i would think, if you were running 100% its sharp

edit-
wasnt trying to answer for him...lol. just my own .o2

subbed as well. ive been thinking about trying a hempy sog, id like to see what he can do


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## Xare (Mar 24, 2010)

Yea IAm5toned has it right. 

I use the verm to hold a bit of water in the airy perlite mix. 

Ive tried it with 100% perlite and had better results with this ratio of 75/25

The 100% perlite dried out faster, the top few inches would be very loose and no roots growing there. But the 75/25 mix retains a bit more water in rootzone above the water level, and this makes for a larger area for the roots to grow in.


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## That 5hit (Mar 24, 2010)

AZgrow 
runs it at 100% perlite .....i think 
i been researchin hempy foer some weeks now
it seems idea for me
i think of it like hydro simulated soil type of growing 
i love the fact that it is reuseable, and you get too hand water it so you get that intimate relationship with your plants that soil growers have


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## IAm5toned (Mar 24, 2010)

thats what i like about it too. im starting to get tired of dealing with soil... i just cant bear to part with the taste of bud grown in it tho haha


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## That 5hit (Mar 24, 2010)

well on of the good things about hempy is you can use any type of nutes


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## KushcreationsZ (Mar 25, 2010)

thanks.. i've been pretty interested in hempy since reading ur last journal


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## (Butters) (Mar 27, 2010)

Scribed and looking forward to this.


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## W Dragon (Mar 27, 2010)

scribed mate and looking good, i have a question though i'm getting ready to trial hempy against soil i'm only on my first grow at the mo and the mothers for hempy are vegging away as my others finish up i was wondering why not use a large tote style container for your sog adding extra space for the roots as opposed to lots of little containers?


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## Xare (Mar 27, 2010)

Totes will work. 

I just like the mobility of the single pots.

It gives me the ability to move plants around under the light, or if something were to happen to one of them it would not put the rest of my plants at risk from root rot. 

Two liter hempys use less media then 1 large bin or 4 rubbermaids would. And, they were free  There is more than sufficient root space for a SOG'ed clone in a two liter hempy pot. 

Bigger hempy buckets are suited for plants with a longer veg time.


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## Boyz N Da Hood (Mar 27, 2010)

Scribed.. Hey I was wondering if instead of using 75% perlite and 25% vermiculite can you use 75% perlite and 25% Soil Moist?


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## W Dragon (Mar 27, 2010)

Xare said:


> Totes will work.
> 
> I just like the mobility of the single pots.
> 
> ...


cheers mate i had given some thought to if some thing went wrong with 1 of them but didn't come up with any solid solutions, originally i didn't think a small area (2L) would hold enough root space but was obviously wrong lol i might go the same way and just put them on a flood table then, can't go wrong with some freebies they'll cost me about 30p each at the cheapest i imagine, i already picked up chunky perlite mate do you think it'll work ok with the bottles?


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## Xare (Mar 27, 2010)

Boyz N Da Hood said:


> Scribed.. Hey I was wondering if instead of using 75% perlite and 25% vermiculite can you use 75% perlite and 25% Soil Moist?


 Ohh, those water crystals. It would not take 25% They retain alot more water then vermiculite. Ive used them in an outdoor grow before, they get quite large when they get wet. Maybe if you used small crystals and pre-soaked them before mixing with the perlite. 

If you want to go more days between watering, that may be a benefit of larger totes. I feel that frequent watering of passive hydro pots is a good thing. It refreshes the reservoir and displaces some of the stale air so that new oxygen can be pulled in. 



W Dragon said:


> i already picked up chunky perlite mate do you think it'll work ok with the bottles?


 Yea ive heard that chunky perlite works fine.


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## W Dragon (Mar 28, 2010)

cheers mate thanks for helping


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## Boyz N Da Hood (Mar 29, 2010)

Xare said:


> I feel that frequent watering of passive hydro pots is a good thing. It refreshes the reservoir and displaces some of the stale air so that new oxygen can be pulled in.


yea that is truu i didnt think of that.. i was trying to find a sub 4 vermiculite that doesnt have the health risk and that isn't a mission 2 get


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## littlegrower2004 (Mar 29, 2010)

those moms look great and those clones real healthy. ill be watching!


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## purplecream (Mar 29, 2010)

i like your setup. im subd


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## Xare (Apr 3, 2010)

Update:








Just checked on the clones and saw the first sign of roots 




















In another week or so they will all have a starter root system. And they will be ready to be transplanted into two liter hempys.


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## IAm5toned (Apr 4, 2010)

nice......


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## chb444220 (Apr 4, 2010)

Lookin good man.. wow... White Poison sounds like a BOMB Ass strain man!! Mmmmmm.... Can u actually buy seeds of this strsin?? or did u make it urself? Sounds really good tho.. I was thinkin about tryna do something similar actually.. Crossing my White Widow with Nirvana's "Urban Poison" (its Durban Poison x Northern lights) supposed to be the "indoor" version of Durban Poison. Cant wait to see it flower!! Subscribed.. and +Rep for sure!


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## IAm5toned (Apr 4, 2010)

white poison= white widox x durban poison

pretty sure you can find it at one of the big seed banks... not sure who the breeder is though


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## Xare (Apr 4, 2010)

I was given cuts of White Poison from the Breeder, a local guy who is a good grower. 

He took White Widow and Durban Poison parents to make this cross. I never asked him what seed banks he used to select the P1's

The next time me and the breeder have a chat ill ask him if he remembers what stock he used. I don't know if he kept the parents or F1 seed. But if he didn't Ill make some S1's aka Fems 


Ive looked around but cant find White Poison seeds from any seedbank yet. But its an impressive cross. Some of the best smoke ive seen around here. 


I also plan on breeding WP to my personal seedline ive been working with for the last few years.


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## W Dragon (Apr 8, 2010)

is it time for an update yet mate?


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## Xare (Apr 8, 2010)

Just been topping off the water in the bubble cloner. 

Water temps have been kinda cool, about mid 60's. So I bumped up the heater a bit. 


One cutting popped roots, and I gave one rooting cut away. 

The rest are growing root bumps on the stem and will burst with roots any time now. 














First rooted cutting:


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## W Dragon (Apr 9, 2010)

good stuff mate i'm looking forward to watching this 1 through all the stages as it happens, thanks for keeping it up mate


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## GangstaChronic (Apr 11, 2010)

can't wait!


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## Xare (Apr 13, 2010)

More of the WW x DP cuts are rooting:





















Tomorrow is 3 weeks in the cloner. And it looks like transplant into the hempys is just a few more days away.


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## IAm5toned (Apr 13, 2010)

those roots look nice and healthy....

tho i am kinda turned off by the 3 weeks in.. why so long? is it strain related? or is rez temp high?
cloning has always been a pain for me, i will admit.


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## Xare (Apr 13, 2010)

The previous cuts I rooted in this cloner also took 3 weeks to be fully rooted. 

Usually at 2 weeks I have the first sign of roots and by 3 weeks they are ready for transplant. Once they start rooting, root growth is fast.

This batch will need a couple extra days. I think its because the cuts were dark green and heavy on nitrogen when they went in the cloner. The tips that have re-grown while in the cloner have seven bladed leaves. 

Water temps have been low. Between 60-72.

They will root faster 75-80 but slime has a chance to grow at those temps.


I like the bubble cloner over using humidity domes because its hands free. No spraying is necessary, just top off the water level and keep temps in line. It gives me a very high success rate too.


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## IAm5toned (Apr 13, 2010)

> This batch will need a couple extra days. I think its because the cuts were dark green and heavy on nitrogen when they went in the cloner. The tips that have re-grown while in the cloner have seven bladed leaves.


lol thats what always happens to me....


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## Xare (Apr 13, 2010)

Ohh, it must be this strain then. Ones ive grown before didn't have seven bladed leaves.


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## Xare (Apr 13, 2010)

3 and a half weeks in the cloner is ok for my perpetual setup.


Once the rooted clones go into the Hempy pots it takes 5 1/2 weeks to grow a 12 to 14 inch plant with big side branches for cloning.

Really only 4 1/2 weeks of solid growth.

The First week in a hempy pot the growth is not fast. It takes a fullweek for the roots to get established then the hempy grows at top speed. 


3 1/2 weeks in the cloner

5 1/2 weeks of veg 

= 9 full weeks of flower


While I have clones rooting and then vegging up to size in the veg area, the flower chamber can do its thing.


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## That 5hit (Apr 13, 2010)

as long as there not dieing 


do you use any gel


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## tom__420 (Apr 13, 2010)

That 5hit said:


> as long as there not dieing
> 
> 
> do you use any gel


Gel would get washed off rather quickly in the cloner, kinda pointless to use


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## Xare (Apr 13, 2010)

I put a little rooting powder in the water just because I have two bottles of the stuff. 

One time it was left out and they rooted fine without it.


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## IAm5toned (Apr 13, 2010)

im a firm believer that rooting hormones do nothing but speed up the process, _slightly_


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## tom__420 (Apr 13, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> im a firm believer that rooting hormones do nothing but speed up the process, _slightly_


Shaved three days off my rooting time in my aero cloner when using clonex...
Haven't looked back since


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## That 5hit (Apr 13, 2010)

so in stead of wait 3 weeks
you can spend X amount of money 
and it will take 2 weeks 4 days 
WOW!
that helps 
































NOT! (LOL)


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## tom__420 (Apr 13, 2010)

My aero cloner takes a week to get a nice root system w/ the clonex....


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## Xare (Apr 17, 2010)

Rooted WWxDP clones just before Transplant:


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## Xare (Apr 17, 2010)

*Phase Two is about to begin*

This post goes over the necessary items for me to start off the Hempy grow.


Some prepped Hempy Buckets made from Two Liters - Passive Hydro Pots:








Substrate Media, and a tub to mix it in.
3 bags of Perlite to 1 bag of Vermiculite - 75% Perlite / 25 % Vermiculite:









"Hardwater" Micro and regular bloom General Hydroponics Flora Series for a Lucas Formula feeding Schedule:









Some PH down and a drop tester kit to adjust my Alkaline Well Water:









A free sample of CNS17 Ripe that I may use during flower:









A nute Mixing Bucket /w 2 gallon and 3 gallon markers:









A cup to measure out 9.5 ounces of mixed nutes to each individual hempy:








And a few tokes...






...From the Vape !


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## Boyz N Da Hood (Apr 17, 2010)

nice man!! those are some long roots yo keep it up


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## Xare (Apr 17, 2010)

*Transplant into Two Liter Hempys *


Now its time to get this White Poison Hempy SOG growing !


First Step is to mix up the Media with some 6.0 PH water till its damp.







Then grab a Clone














Put it in the hempy pot







Then I pour in the mix around the roots. 








I press the media into the pot lightly this sets the roots in place and the height of the clone in the pot.







Top off with the Mix and one is done. 







So move onto the next Clone


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## Xare (Apr 17, 2010)

And here we have 26 White Poison Two Liter Hempys.

They are in the veg chamber with the light off for the next few hours to prevent transplant shock. Ive seen freshly transplanted clones wilt if put under the light right away. 


Day 0 of Veg:








When the light comes on I will be giving them nutes for the first time.


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## purplecream (Apr 17, 2010)

very nice. cant wait to see them start growing!


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## That 5hit (Apr 17, 2010)

can we get that pepsi placed in the middle
you know "feng shui" (_fung shway_)


i see you have no overflow pan 
have you know fear of water spilling everywhere


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## Xare (Apr 17, 2010)

I have some little plastic dishes that fit under each hempy pot to catch runoff. Those will be added shortly. 

And that one out of place pepsi hempy is going to be a Light Poisoned White Poison hehe. Meaning iam gonna stress it with light poisoning to make it produce male banana's for selfing. 

That way I can make some ww x dp S1's


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## IAm5toned (Apr 18, 2010)

haha shoulda used a pepsi one bottle... tho i would have to pour it out than drink the nasty crap.


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## Xare (Apr 29, 2010)

This is after 10 days of vegging:


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## IAm5toned (Apr 29, 2010)

those are going to be pretty


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## littlegrower2004 (Apr 29, 2010)

those are looking great xare!!


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## notoriousb (Apr 30, 2010)

looking good man.
when you plan on flippin the switch on them?


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## Xare (Apr 30, 2010)

In a month they will be 12 inches tall with some lower branches that I can take clones from. That is when they will be put into the flower room.

By the end of flower they will be at least double in height. 24-30 inches I would guess. 

Today they were given a full dose of nutes - 8/16 ml per gallon lucas formula - PH 6.5


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## Xare (May 7, 2010)

WP at 20 days of vegging:


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## (Butters) (May 7, 2010)

Always impressed with your grows Xare.  

How much weight do you think you're averaging per clone these days?

P.S. This is probably the best damn Coke advertisement I have ever seen! 

-Butters


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## Xare (May 7, 2010)

Hey butters,

Well with my old 400 watt hps I was getting 9-10 grams per clone. x25 plants = 1/2 pound

But now that Iam flowering under a 600 iam guessing 13-14 per. x25 = 3/4 pound


Also this is the first time iam flowering with White Poison. It seems to like the hempy buckets better then my old genetics. I expect it to yield just as much as my old strain, if not more.


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## Xare (May 7, 2010)

The other day I removed some of the old clone fan leaves. They get in the way of watering. 

Each of the hempy clones are now about 9-10 inches tall. 

The side branches are just starting to grow. Over the next two weeks they will get large enough for me to take cuts for the next rotation.


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## That 5hit (May 7, 2010)

are you going to "lollipop" them


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## Xare (May 7, 2010)

Yea the lower branches will be removed for clones. And any other branches I will trim and only leave 1 node. 

Going for single cola lollys. 

Ill show pics of how I do it later on.


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## That 5hit (May 7, 2010)

https://www.rollitup.org/members/that-5hit-135841/albums/helpful-5hit-6890/921982-lolli-popping/


https://www.rollitup.org/members/that-5hit-135841/albums/helpful-5hit-6890/

https://www.rollitup.org/members/that-5hit-135841/albums/helpful-5hit-6890/923107-bubble-cloner/


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## California Buds (May 8, 2010)

Have you tried FIM'ing them in a SOG environment like that?
Your mothers are looking fantastic, do you have them under the 600 watt HPS as well?
And your clones are doing wonderful.

Subbed can't wait to see how they turn out!


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## Xare (May 8, 2010)

Nope I havent. I do single cola lollys, trying to mimic Al B Fuct's SOG style but with hempy pots instead of ebb and flow tables.

And those mothers were vegged under my T5's


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## Airwave (May 8, 2010)

Xare said:


> Nope I havent. I do single cola lollys, trying to mimic Al B Fuct's SOG style but with hempy pots instead of ebb and flow tables.
> 
> And those mothers were vegged under my T5's


Did you get slow growth under the T5s?


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## Xare (May 8, 2010)

Na, T5's are really good for vegging. 

They would not be suitable for very tall plants indoors. But they work very well for what I am doing here.


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## IAm5toned (May 8, 2010)

yeah you can really slam some t5's down to the top of the canopy. makes for great short internode lengths.


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## Airwave (May 8, 2010)

Xare said:


> Na, T5's are really good for vegging.
> 
> They would not be suitable for very tall plants indoors. But they work very well for what I am doing here.





IAm5toned said:


> yeah you can really slam some t5's down to the top of the canopy. makes for great short internode lengths.


I've been using T5s since seed and they seem to be growing really slow compared to HIDs. 
But I'm only on my fourth grow. Plus I'm using T5s for the first time and I'm trying a new feed, so maybe it's just my lack of experience talking.


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## Cow Tea (May 8, 2010)

Hey what was that blue material you used to hold your cuttings in the cloner?


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## mr.smileyface (May 8, 2010)

yo whats hempy?


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## Xare (May 8, 2010)

Cow Tea said:


> Hey what was that blue material you used to hold your cuttings in the cloner?


 I made those inserts out of a foam pool raft. Here is a link to my cloner thread where I talk about making them: * https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/196684-my-homemade-bubble-cloner.html*




mr.smileyface said:


> yo whats hempy?


 Hempy is short for Hempy Buckets. Its a Passive Hydroponics technique.


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## IAm5toned (May 8, 2010)

so you were the one that made the bubble cloner... lol. i thought i had recognized the s/n when i subbed. coolness


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## mr.smileyface (May 8, 2010)

California Buds said:


> Have you tried FIM'ing them in a SOG environment like that?
> Your mothers are looking fantastic, do you have them under the 600 watt HPS as well?
> And your clones are doing wonderful.
> 
> Subbed can't wait to see how they turn out!


You shouldnt FIM SOG plants. Only fim Mothers,scrogg plants and outdoor


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## stanislavski (May 8, 2010)

haha, that is a nice bottle. Too bad I have to fit at least 15 in my fridge or I'd do it. What are you growing them in / under. You may have listed it..


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## That 5hit (May 8, 2010)

is there a reason why you use 2ltr 
and why not use 3ltr 
other then availability


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## stanislavski (May 8, 2010)

I think he's doing it more for personal pleasure and challenge than just dropping a seed.


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## Xare (May 9, 2010)

That 5hit said:


> is there a reason why you use 2ltr
> and why not use 3ltr
> other then availability


 I have considered 3 ltr bottles. Because they are bigger they might allow me an extra day between waterings. IE: water - skip - skip - water instead of water - skip - water. But the trade off is that it takes more media to fill the same number of containers. 1/2 again as much media as I use now.

Two liter hempys are more then sufficient for SOG style growing. AL B Fuct uses 1.7 liter pots in his SOG ebb and flow tables.

If I was growing larger plants I would be using bigger hempy buckets with more media.


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## California Buds (May 9, 2010)

I'm trying to same sort of thing with 1 gallons next harvest, 9 1 gallons per 2x2 lol.


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## Xare (May 9, 2010)

California Buds said:


> I'm trying to same sort of thing with 1 gallons next harvest, 9 1 gallons per 2x2 lol.


 Sounds good. 

I would recommend to anyone trying out hempys - *Do not start with a Seedling*. 

Clones are the only way to go in hempy because seedlings grow slow in them. Clones or Mature Plants do not. I think it has something to do with the roots when the plants are immature but I dont know.


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## That 5hit (May 9, 2010)

i'm learning that clones are the best for all setup (well rooted clones)


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## stanislavski (May 9, 2010)

Lol, I use seeds in anything. Bottles, trays, etc...I've found that starting in tiny ass jiffy trays (only recently) work the best. Not jiffy trays with their mix, but just plastic trays with your own soil. Grow them til they're hanging because the roots can't go far enough to support itself. THEN transplant. My babies in the mtn dew bottles took well because they were already rooted into the trays and roots were hanging through the soil & a nice system had started to take place. I popped them in the dew bottles & they are growing nicely. Out rather than stetching. By the 5th week they can't support themselves & you need a stake, but other than that, seeds will work fine. Of course, I wouldn't try this on the 1st/2nd/3rd, etc grow. You might become overwhelmed  Other than that, root them, then transplant. I don't believe in rootbound..You can control it


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## Xare (May 15, 2010)

Veg day 28:








These things are getting out of control !

Already they are pushing 14 inches.

I would have liked another week of veg for more branches on the bottom to form. Looks like I will have to keep mothers of the White Poison instead of taking clones from the lower branches. The sativa in her genes makes the bitch stretch...


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## That 5hit (May 15, 2010)

Xare said:


> two White Poison Clones from a breeder
> 
> 
> 
> ...


looking great so far


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## Xare (May 15, 2010)

Because of my height restrictions I cannot allow these to veg anymore. Another week or so of veg was expected, but they are ready to flower now. 

So things are jumping off a bit sooner.


White Poison - Flowering day 0:








24 of the 26 wwxdp clones are in my flower chamber. 

The remaining Two have been topped and are in the Veg area to become "mothers". I selected 2 clones that had some lower branches starting.


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## IAm5toned (May 15, 2010)

that is going to be a sick yield.... watch out for the stretch!


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## littlegrower2004 (May 15, 2010)

looking good xare hopefully they wont stretch too bad for your height restriction. how do those dishes work out for you?? looks like if you water to run off they might fill up real quick. i got some 12" trays for my pots and they barely fit, when i water to run off i almost get over flow right away..had to syphen some out actually so it didnt over flow haha. keep up the ncie work.


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## Xare (May 15, 2010)

When I water, I use a measured amount that will fill the hempy reservoir but not overflow alot. Usually there is still a bit of water inside and they will make a little run off. 

The more run off, the more I have to empty the small dishes. 


If they need a big flush I take them out to flush them with a double dose of water, while sitting in a shallow bin to catch extra run off.


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## California Buds (May 16, 2010)

Looking good. They are starting to stretch a shitload lol.
Still beautiful looking plants.


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## Boyz N Da Hood (May 19, 2010)

yea man very nice they look good! can't wait to see what these yield with that 600!


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## California Buds (May 19, 2010)

How are the ladies looking?


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## Xare (May 20, 2010)

Well, its been just 5 days into 12/12 under the 600 hps

Here are a couple pics with the light on:













No action just yet...

It will be within another week or so before the buds start to form.


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## IAm5toned (May 22, 2010)

man im really digging the uniformity of the canopy.
i have a hard time acheiving that unless i start a whole crop w/ seed all at once.


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## Xare (May 25, 2010)

The WP clone in the pepsi hempy is going through the light poisoning process. 

Half way into the flowering dark period I move it into the veg chamber for an hour, then move it back to the dark flower room for the rest of the night. 

Keeping this up for the first 3 weeks of flowering will force the banana's to show up if wwxdp carries the trait. 

Its having an odd side effect, the plant is a few inches shorter then the rest and branching out more.

The other clones are growing super fast and tall, with minimal branches. I think I can drop the veg period all together with these sativa heavy genetics. 

On day 11 of flower, they are 24 inches tall:













If they get too much taller I might have to re-organize the room lol.

As you can see they are naturally growing into a lolly with very little branching.


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## mr.smileyface (May 25, 2010)

so tall. you should have vegged under an mh. 
Im subbed tho
keep up the good work


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## Xare (May 25, 2010)

I was warned that they "Stretch" so what we are seeing is an expression of Genetics, not a lack of light.


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## notoriousb (May 26, 2010)

haha jussst a little stretching but that's cool and convenient that they're naturally lollipopping themselves.
lets just hope they stop pretty soon  this is definitely going to have an interesting finish


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## Xare (May 27, 2010)

Well looky what we have here,

The magic is starting:


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## Dragon Gem (May 27, 2010)

Your girls are all teenagers now! Keep em away from those nasty boys lmao


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## Marlowe (May 27, 2010)

Yeah! Man everything looks awesome... I get some serious strech with with my sensi skunks... I just clean up the bottoms and the tops just turn into one giant bud... Its all good!


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## chb444220 (May 27, 2010)

wow.. looking good man.. i loved the pic of them all together.. they all look almost exactly the same size.. and all nice and green too. =) keep up the good work! glad to see the magic happening.. now the fun part begins. =)


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## Malenki (May 27, 2010)

Cool grow man I just read over your hole post. I have heard of hempy buckets before but I have never really understood them. Somebody said its passive hydro. Well how? Isn't it really the same as soil just in perlite for better growth?


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## Xare (May 28, 2010)

Malenki said:


> Cool grow man I just read over your hole post. I have heard of hempy buckets before but I have never really understood them. Somebody said its passive hydro. Well how? Isn't it really the same as soil just in perlite for better growth?


Active Hydroponic systems use timers and pumps to water the plants. But passive hydroponics is hand watered. 

Growing in soil is closest to "Drain to Waste" passive hydroponics. That is where you water a soil-less media till its soaked and let it drain out of the bottom of the pot to be discarded. The problem with drain to waste is that you have to water frequently, as soil-less mixes dry out faster then dirt. 

A hempy bucket has an internal reservoir to save that wasted nutrient rich water. Also thereby extending the periods between watering. 

What makes anything Hydro is that your growing in a media besides soil. Stuff like clay pellets, rockwool, coco, water (bubbleponics), air (aeroponics), perlite, verm, fytocell, rice hulls, ect...

In this case iam growing in a Soil-less media of Perlite and Vermiculite contained in a passive hydroponic pot that features an internal reservoir. Simply, a Hempy Bucket.


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## Xare (May 31, 2010)

Flowering day 16:


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## littlegrower2004 (May 31, 2010)

the light poisoned one isnt flowering like the rest and really looks like it has more lower branches then the others


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## Xare (May 31, 2010)

Yea its a few inches shorter then the rest, it has more branching and its flowering slower. 

If it produces any male banana's I will remove the pollen pods and save them. I will not be pollinating this indoor batch, instead I have a few clones of WP growing outdoors for seed production. 

WP Clone for outdoor seed:


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## IAm5toned (Jun 1, 2010)

how do you judge on when to harvest the male pods, if u dont mind me asking.
im about to get into breeding  and i like to ask the advice of people that have had obvious success in there technique.


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## Xare (Jun 1, 2010)

Male bananas do not open up like regular pods, so you just watch them for development and pluck them when they look ripe. Id say it takes 2-3 weeks for them to be ready once you see some forming.


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## IAm5toned (Jun 1, 2010)

nice, thank you.


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## Xare (Jun 2, 2010)

Flowering day 18:


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## IAm5toned (Jun 2, 2010)

looks nice.
i see you have the red stem thing going on.
i had a pheno awhile back that did the same thing from clone only.
it was driving me nuts, thought it was a ph problem for ever.


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## Malenki (Jun 3, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> looks nice.
> i see you have the red stem thing going on.
> i had a pheno awhile back that did the same thing from clone only.
> it was driving me nuts, thought it was a ph problem for ever.



And the red stem thing is what? I have had that before, whats it mean?


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## IAm5toned (Jun 3, 2010)

sometimes its just the strain that doe sit. sometimes its a sign of low ph


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## notoriousb (Jun 3, 2010)

nice work man. everything's lookin healthy and stacked to really hold some weight


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## Xare (Jun 6, 2010)

I checked the PH with my dropper kit and its about 6.3 - 6.5


Today is day 22 of flower:

The leaves are just starting to get frosty


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## littlegrower2004 (Jun 6, 2010)

thats looking great!! realllll frosty already at only day 22 of flower!! going to be a nice smoke at the end.


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## jhopkins34 (Jun 10, 2010)

My mouth is already watering, by the end of flowering those leaves will be pure white


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## Xare (Jun 10, 2010)

I love to see all this frosty genetic expression 


WWxDP flowering day 26 !


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## IAm5toned (Jun 10, 2010)

lookin great as per norm


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## littlegrower2004 (Jun 10, 2010)

super healthy and loading up some more crystals!!


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## (Butters) (Jun 10, 2010)

This is quite simply the best looking grow on RIU in my opinion. Absolutely perfect looking Xare.

And IAm5toned, I swear I must watch your avatar to it's completion every time I see a post of yours. Good stuff.

-Butters


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## Xare (Jun 14, 2010)

This will be the best stuff ive ever grown for sure 


They are about 31 inches tall right now from the top of the hempy pot.



Here is a full shot of a clone.

Day 30:























Nearly Halfway done.


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## littlegrower2004 (Jun 14, 2010)

i was just looking at your thread and was going to ask how they were looking! those girls are beauts! looks like you got the hempy down pretty nice along with that lucas formula. keep it going!!


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## Xare (Jun 14, 2010)

Yea I have the Hempy / Lucas combo dialed in 

Deficiencies will show up if the PH goes below 6.0

And this WP can tolerate higher doses of nutes then my other strains. I read the color of the leaf to see if I need to Flush / Water only.



Tonight I am setting up the Bubble Cloner and taking WP cuts for the next SOG rotation. They will get 3 weeks in the cloner to fully root. Then two weeks in a hempy pot to stabilize before going into flower.


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## That 5hit (Jun 14, 2010)

what do you exspect to yeild from this crop based on past crops grown like this

and can we get a full crop shot instead of just the single plant


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## That 5hit (Jun 14, 2010)

in as short as possible can you explain the "lucas formula"
- i'm thinking its using one nute furmula for veg and flower ???????


----------



## Xare (Jun 14, 2010)

That 5hit said:


> what do you exspect to yeild from this crop based on past crops grown like this
> 
> and can we get a full crop shot instead of just the single plant



I can tell its going to be more then my previous grows, difference being a better light and better genetics. Everything else is the same. 


Ive been taking individual clones out from under the HPS to get better shots of the plants.

The light just went off for the night so I can take some group shots. 


@ night on flowering day 30:



































That 5hit said:


> in as short as possible can you explain the "lucas formula"
> - i'm thinking its using one nute furmula for veg and flower ???????



Yes the lucas formula has all the nutrients a cannabis plant needs for both the veg and flower stage. My mothers and young clones all eat the same thing that my flowering plants do.


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## littlegrower2004 (Jun 14, 2010)

those plants look great!!! going to be a heavy harvest for sure! group shot really makes them look nuggety and frosty.


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## That 5hit (Jun 15, 2010)

Xare said:


> two White Poison Clones from a breeder (moms)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i freak'en love this grow


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## Tiger Woods (Jun 16, 2010)

First off GREAT grow. You really take good care of your bitchs,lol. My 1st grow ever was usings hempy buckets w/ foxfarm nutes. Next time iam sogging though. Question why did you decide not to lolly, think it really would of increased your yield IMO. Is it because they kinda selfed lollyed? Please don't take offense I think your doing a great job,keep up the good work

Peace and good vibes bro


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## Xare (Jun 16, 2010)

Some of the clones didnt grow any lower branching. I had to put them into flower before they could form. 

Although a few do have one or two budsites on lower branches. 

For the most part they have naturally lolly'ed themselves. This coming from the heavy sativa influence. 

I like to leave one bud site on my lower branches, instead of stripping them all the way off. 


I was expecting more branching that I could use to clone like I have done previously with my Indica's. But this strain grew so fast it made that idea unpractical. The clones would have been 24 inches tall by the time all the lower branching formed. They would have outgrown the hempy pots. 


This next go I think the clones will be put into flower before any branching has started to form on any of the plants.


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## Tiger Woods (Jun 16, 2010)

Thanks for the response bro. Id rep u if I knew how but since the changed the site I don't.

Peace and good vibes


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## Xare (Jun 19, 2010)

White Poison flowering day 35:

This is one clone I pulled out of the room. 



















I re-arranged some of the plants under the light and knocked a few over like dominoes.

They are feeling top heavy 


Grp shot later when the light goes off.


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## That 5hit (Jun 19, 2010)

Xare said:


> Grp shot later when the light goes off.


i was just about to beg for that 
thanks in advance


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## Xare (Jun 19, 2010)

Grp shots




















I am just starting to notice a smell from the plants.


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## Boyz N Da Hood (Jun 19, 2010)

beautiful man just str8 up beautiful!!

thanks for sharing..


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## littlegrower2004 (Jun 19, 2010)

those girls are continueing to stay healthy and fattening up!! cant wait to see them in a couple more weeks...cant even wait to see them in a couple more days!!


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## Xare (Jun 23, 2010)

A few of the clones were leaning into the others so I've added some support poles.


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## littlegrower2004 (Jun 23, 2010)

Xare said:


> A few of the clones were leaning into the others so I've added some support poles.


haha ya im sure they are!!! i bet they are looking real good this week.


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## 420BongRips (Jun 23, 2010)

Sexy. Keep up the good work bro, subbed. How long til harvest?


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## Xare (Jun 23, 2010)

Both White Widow and Durban Poison are 8-9 week strains. So White Poison should be done between day 58-65 of flowering. 

I will be using my Eyeclops Bionicam to check for trichome maturity.


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## That 5hit (Jun 23, 2010)

Xare said:


> Both White Widow and Durban Poison are 8-9 week strains. So White Poison should be done between day 58-65 of flowering.
> 
> I will be using my Eyeclops Bionicam to check for trichome maturity.


i have to get one now --on my way to toys r us
this thing looks sweat 
just looked it up 
cheap and 200x zoom 
unless you where just pulling my leg


suggested price: $49.99 
*our price: $39.98*

Too cool! Plug the Eye Clops into your TV and point it at any object to see it *magnified 200x* on your TV. Common everyday objects appear extraordinary when viewed 200 times larger than life.

[video=youtube;-JkcTcfqz1g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JkcTcfqz1g[/video]


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## Xare (Jun 24, 2010)

The one that I have is portable and it saves pics to a flash drive that you can plug into your PC to upload pics.(BioniCam) They have another older version that just plugs into the TV, you cannot upload pics with it. (BioniEye)

Mine also goes up to 400x zoom. 

I got it around Christmas time for $30 shipped.


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## That 5hit (Jun 24, 2010)

whats the link to where you gat yours
or where can i go find one 
loks like something that you can get a toys r us(can i)


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## Xare (Jun 24, 2010)

I got mine from Amazon, but they have gone up in price since then. 

http://www.amazon.com/Recordable-Microscope-Multi-Zoom-Adjustment-Magnification/dp/B002WCMJEY

They may have them at toys r us. 

I used an Eyeclops Bionicam to take the macro shots of WP shown on post 1


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## That 5hit (Jun 24, 2010)

fucken great
im shocked this thing is not 1000$ 







Macro shots 100 x magnification:


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## Xare (Jun 24, 2010)

The first pic was taken with my cannon, on the "super macro" setting.

The second one is the Eyeclops microscope @ 100x magnification.


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## Xare (Jun 24, 2010)

Here we are on day 40:

Some of the hairs are turning orange


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## littlegrower2004 (Jun 24, 2010)

Frosty!!!!


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## CK WICKED (Jun 25, 2010)

bro does plants look real nice n frostyy <3


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## 420BongRips (Jun 26, 2010)

Those are some sexy plants you got there. How much are your shooting for on your harvest?


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## Xare (Jun 27, 2010)

Around .5 grams per watt.


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## 420BongRips (Jun 27, 2010)

Xare said:


> Around .5 grams per watt.


Sexy. Good luck bro.


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 2, 2010)

how are those girls looking now xare?? need to put any more supports in to keep them up?


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## Xare (Jul 2, 2010)

Yea, I am about to add 1 more support stick for another clone that is leaning over. For ones that are not leaning bad I just give them a little readjustment by centering the stem in the hempy pot. 


Day 48 of flowering:

























Today I will give a bit of CNS 17 Ripe with the nutes. 


They look like they are on track for a 9 week finish.


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## Xare (Jul 2, 2010)

Here are two hempy buckets I made out of empty one gallon nute containers. 

The hole is 2 inches up from the bottom. Its a 1/2 inch hole and I used a hot glue gun to affix a bit of screen that covers the hole. They have been spray painted to keep algae from growing. 

These will be used for my mothers instead of the two liter hempys. The extra media and bigger reservoir are a bit of a safety net. They should produce more clones and require less frequent waterings when they are large.


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## Boyz N Da Hood (Jul 2, 2010)

those look beautiful man! awesome job!


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## DieselB (Jul 2, 2010)

Nevermind I'm dumb, I was replying to the bottom of the eleventh page...


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## Agcat (Jul 2, 2010)

Great photos, with a lot of imformation, that a new guy could understand. Thank You very much


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## Xare (Jul 11, 2010)

Clones for the next rotation have been put into new hempys. 







The two in the front will be more mothers. 

All these are now in the veg chamber. 



The flowering clones are starting week 9

I have been feeding them some CNS 17 Ripe for the last week or so. And for the next week they will be getting water only feedings, this acts as a final flush.


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## Xare (Jul 11, 2010)

Here we are @ lights off, the end of week 8


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 11, 2010)

by the look of the leaves, those plants are just about finishing up. the only thing which is different is the leaves are bending down like stress instead of curling up which is another sign of harvest. either way they should be done in a week or so it looks like. should be a nice harvest, cant wait to see the final weight.


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## Xare (Jul 11, 2010)

Yea, its been quite hot and it causes the fans to droop a bit. 

Flower room temps have been 85+ for the last week or so during lights on. 

I took that pic one min after I watered and the light went out.


----------



## Xare (Jul 11, 2010)

Trichome maturity examination, day 58


Sample taken from a small leaf:


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## roro (Jul 12, 2010)

hi really nice grow xare
iv bin doing sog with northern lights in rock wool nft. i like to pack em in a bit more than you have here but having said that the NL mothers are getting a bit knackered and iv been looking for a different (stronger) strain. how tall do you rekon the WP would get if you flowered them after rooting and hardening with say just 2 or three days veg? (no side branches even tiny ones plucked out)
also how do you find the fan leaves on them do you think they would shade each other to much if you packed em much tighter?
you seem to be well into your lollipop sogs, same here. wats your all time favourite strain for max yeild lollipop sog taking cloning easiness into account?
sorry for all t questions. only i have a lot of faith in your opinions.
cheers ro


----------



## Xare (Jul 12, 2010)

roro said:


> hi really nice grow xare
> iv bin doing sog with northern lights in rock wool nft. i like to pack em in a bit more than you have here but having said that the NL mothers are getting a bit knackered and iv been looking for a different (stronger) strain. how tall do you rekon the WP would get if you flowered them after rooting and hardening with say just 2 or three days veg? (no side branches even tiny ones plucked out)


 A good rule of thumb is: an Indica strain can double and a Sativa strain will more then double and can triple if you run co2. ( I dont )

My plan is to keep them shorter for this next SOG rotation. I will put them in the flower room when they are 6-8 inches tall. 

I would like them to finish around 20-24 inches tall. The ones in flower now are average of 31 inches.

The vegging clones have been in the veg chamber for the last few days. It takes some time for the roots to "grab" in a new hempy pot before they start to grow. By the time I take the plants out of the flower area these new clones will be fully ready for flower. 




> also how do you find the fan leaves on them do you think they would shade each other to much if you packed em much tighter?
> you seem to be well into your lollipop sogs, same here. wats your all time favourite strain for max yeild lollipop sog taking cloning easiness into account?
> sorry for all t questions. only i have a lot of faith in your opinions.
> cheers ro


When I was under my 400 watt light I was getting 1/2 pound with 25 plants. But one time I tried to do 36 plants. Just to see if it upped my yield, I still harvested a 1/2 pound. The plants were cramped and fighting for light. So instead I upgraded to a 600 watt and went with 25 clones. 


I am not real experienced with different strains. So I have to say White Poison is my Favorite. 

Before I got ahold of this cut I was growing bagseeds from $50 an 1/8th sacks of Kush

They cloned for me in the same amount of time.


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 12, 2010)

ya i can see that your plants could be alittle stressed from 85+ heat. hard to keep a small area cool in the summer with a large light like your 600. still looking good though. whats the percentage of cloudy trichs?? im not too experienced in looking at the trich heads but to me it looks like a good amount are still clear.


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## Xare (Jul 12, 2010)

Last week on a really hot day my attic grow space was over 95 for a bit. lol


I agree that they look clear right now. And I expect over the next week we will see progression into cloudy trichs. 

I might even give them 48 hours of darkness before the Chop.


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 12, 2010)

Xare said:


> Last week on a really hot day my attic grow space was over 95 for a bit. lol
> 
> 
> I agree that they look clear right now. And I expect over the next week we will see progression into cloudy trichs.
> ...


wow those girls definetely went through some hot days. are you going to chop on specific day of flower or just going by the percentage of cloudy trichs? seems like your planning on getting this perpetual with clones being ready right after you finished flower.


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## IAm5toned (Jul 12, 2010)

Xare said:


> Last week on a really hot day my attic grow space was over 95 for a bit. lol
> 
> 
> I agree that they look clear right now. And I expect over the next week we will see progression into cloudy trichs.
> ...


a little stress before harvest never hurts


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## Xare (Jul 12, 2010)

littlegrower2004 said:


> wow those girls definetely went through some hot days. are you going to chop on specific day of flower or just going by the percentage of cloudy trichs? seems like your planning on getting this perpetual with clones being ready right after you finished flower.



Ive been planning for a 9 week Finish - 65 days. 

Being able to look closely at the trichs helps to make a good judgment on ripeness. 

If they are still clear I could go longer but I dont think they will be. From my experience they are ready to turn cloudy this week. And the week after that they would start going amber. 

Iam not looking for a couchlock effect. I want the super racey, fast heart beat THC buzz. 


Ive had a SOG going perpetually for nearly a year now. Each run making little changes to see what I like and what happens. Fine tuning the runs and getting to know my genetics and nutes.


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## Xare (Jul 12, 2010)

Here is the next round of WP clones chillin in the veg chamber with the moms.








Today I topped the Two mothers in the 1 gallon hempys.


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## IAm5toned (Jul 12, 2010)

i love the moms. total milf's


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## Xare (Jul 12, 2010)

The moms grow alot and I have had to cut them back a couple times. 

The two new mothers were topped early to promote alot of branching and bushiness. I will try to keep them shorter by topping and supercropping.


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## That 5hit (Jul 14, 2010)

Q. do you ever reuse your medium ?


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## Xare (Jul 14, 2010)

Yea I have reused my media once before. 

I shook the rootball free of the media and gave it a rinse. But its pretty much impossible to remove all the little bits of roots. 

It seemed to work ok and I may try it again in the future. 

Right now iam growing a tomato plant on my deck in a 5 gallon hempy using some old media. Its 6 feet tall.


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## Xare (Jul 14, 2010)

Trichome Maturity Exam day 60:

This sample is from the top of a plant


----------



## Xare (Jul 14, 2010)

More macro shots from a leaf sample.

They are more Photogenic:


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## That 5hit (Jul 15, 2010)

Q. why so many plants
why not veg longer with less plant


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## IAm5toned (Jul 15, 2010)

more colas, faster turnaround between harvests.


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## Xare (Jul 15, 2010)

That 5hit said:


> Q. why so many plants
> why not veg longer with less plant


 The same reason why iam not growing in an ebb and flow table or a Aero-NFT setup. 

Height restrictions in my grow space. 

I do not have the room to grow larger plants. I only have room to do a SOG

And hempys allow me to grow with a very low profile. 


My large plants are done outside.



If I wanted to grow bigger plants inside and get the same yield as my SOG in the same amount of time. I would need to have double the height in my flower chamber and a veg room that is double the height and size that it is now with twice the amount of veg lighting.

Vegging them up to size would take twice as long.


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## Xare (Jul 15, 2010)

I may try doing a run with 16 clones sometime to see if I get the same yield as with 25.

That is the minimum number of plants for a SOG - 1 per square foot

4 rows of 4 in my 4x4 floor space.


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## IAm5toned (Jul 15, 2010)

lol ive been playing around with my numbers as well. i think the key is actually lighting.(surprise surprise) less plants = more penetration, better popcorn, at least so far. ive got a group of 8 and a group of 12 going atm.


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## Xare (Jul 16, 2010)

Trich Exam, end of day 62:

Sample is leaf from 2 different plants. 


I see alot of ambers and I will be chopping in the next day or so. Sooner then I expected.


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## IAm5toned (Jul 17, 2010)

thats what im about.... 60/40 clear to amber.


----------



## Xare (Jul 17, 2010)

WWxDP harvested and hung up to dry:








I got a nice ball of finger hash to sample. It has a very Sweet, and Spicy flavor.

Kinda like peppermint.


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## That 5hit (Jul 17, 2010)

i just cried 
its like i am at a funeral

this has been one of the best grows to wittiness
i need a smoke ..................


----------



## notoriousb (Jul 18, 2010)

great work


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 18, 2010)

cant wait to see the final weight on this one xare! hows it looking for the next grow?


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## That 5hit (Jul 18, 2010)

ok everyone we have a few days before the final weight in 
any guesses


14 oz


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 18, 2010)

its hard to say how it will turn out without knowing how dense it is but it looks pretty nuggety so im going to go with somewhere between 12-13 oz. very good run either way and i would be extremely proud to get a grow like this under my belt.


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## Xare (Jul 18, 2010)

I just put these on 12/12

They are 7-8 inches tall.











I didnt take budshots at harvest, my fingers were just too sticky from pulling the leaves off. 

So instead here are some drying budshots.






















A bit shaggy, they will get a final trim when I take them off the stem. And my next project is a DIY trimmer powered with a 1/2 horsepower motor.


----------



## IAm5toned (Jul 18, 2010)

a 1/2 hp motor?

lol is it a 2 stroke as well?

looking forward to seeing that


----------



## Xare (Jul 18, 2010)

Iam re-purposing an old electric well pump I found in the garage. 

I came up with a way to mount a spinning fan like blade on it. Its gonna be a trimpro made from plywood and a metal grill with the motor spinning a blade.


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## IAm5toned (Jul 18, 2010)

that will be pretty badass, no doubt.
everytime i look at a joiner or table mounted router i always think of making a bud box trimmer, i just never actually get around to doing it... sigh.
i have a billion ideas, and the time & money to implement about 2 of them.


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## notoriousb (Jul 18, 2010)

That 5hit said:


> ok everyone we have a few days before the final weight in
> any guesses
> 
> 
> 14 oz


Im an optomist too but not that optomisitic haha 
my guess is 8 zips

and Xare, something like this-- 
[youtube]ouojXIZUGRE&has_verified=1[/youtube]


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## Humboldt14 (Jul 18, 2010)

cant wate any longer


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## That 5hit (Jul 18, 2010)

i stated a thread on it already :

https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/300814-diy-trimbox.html


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## Xare (Jul 18, 2010)

notoriousb said:


> and Xare, something like this--


 Yes, since I saw that video awhile ago ive had this project in the back of my mind. I have an outdoor harvest to prepare for and a trimmer like that would be great. 


This is my motor with a sanding disk mounted to the shaft. The disk will spin an 18 inch blade. 













That 5hit said:


> i stated a thread on it already :


 Hell yeah ! Trimming by hand sux.


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## That 5hit (Jul 18, 2010)

yeah that photo in my post above this one 
is not mine but someone who made one base on that video 
they used plastic blades and everything and took apart the motor and switch the shaft around so it spins in opposite direction
...switching polarity by changing the power wires around did not do the job. (what they did in the video )
but walmart sales a metal balde fan for around 50$ 
im sure you can get it to cut with out changing the direction of the spin, kind of like a weed wacker 
the screen is the real key to it, it keep the buds from being hacked by the blades, while allowing the unwanted leaf mater to pass
the main reason for the opposite spin is so leaf and bud matter does not get blown in your face


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 18, 2010)

lets get a look at your outdoor grow xare!! each time you mention it i am filled with imagining a nice super healthy BUSH!!


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## Xare (Jul 18, 2010)

littlegrower2004 said:


> lets get a look at your outdoor grow xare!! each time you mention it i am filled with imagining a nice super healthy BUSH!!


 My outdoor is over at ICM

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=172409


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 18, 2010)

holy shit xare! that outdoor grow just blew my mind haha! i expected a couple big bushes but not a giant patch like that. those are some very nice looking girls and you really know how to keep healthy plants. really weird the animal is eating the tops mainly since that makes it seem as its a bigger animal than that of a rabbit or like. good thing you got that fence up and can save the most of the grow. how come you didnt start a thread on it here?


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## Xare (Jul 19, 2010)

littlegrower2004 said:


> holy shit xare! that outdoor grow just blew my mind haha! i expected a couple big bushes but not a giant patch like that. those are some very nice looking girls and you really know how to keep healthy plants. really weird the animal is eating the tops mainly since that makes it seem as its a bigger animal than that of a rabbit or like. good thing you got that fence up and can save the most of the grow. how come you didnt start a thread on it here?



Mostly because I learned alot of my outdoor skills from their outdoor subforum. And its extra work to repost everything. 

The thread there on Photoperiod Acclimatization doubled my yield because it taught me how to keep clones from flowering in early spring.


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## notoriousb (Jul 19, 2010)

damn man, your outdoor looks amazing. definitely going to need a trimmer to help with all that work 
is this the photoperiod thread youre talking about? --https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=56985


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 19, 2010)

Xare said:


> Mostly because I learned alot of my outdoor skills from their outdoor subforum. And its extra work to repost everything.
> 
> The thread there on Photoperiod Acclimatization doubled my yield because it taught me how to keep clones from flowering in early spring.


very true about the reposting being extra work. just seems like for how good of a grow that is turning out to be, more people would be interested in watching and learning a thing or two on this site. i was pretty shocked to only see it was 3 pages but with about 6 big updates with major growth over last few weeks. your definetely a step ahead if you can get your plants not to start flowering in early spring. even the top od growers on here have a problem with their plants trying to make the switch on them so im sure if you got it down, you can teach us a lot more on this site. thanks for the inspiration from both grows!


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## Xare (Jul 20, 2010)

notoriousb said:


> damn man, your outdoor looks amazing. definitely going to need a trimmer to help with all that work
> is this the photoperiod thread youre talking about? --https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=56985


 Yea thats the one, now whenever I see a re-vegging plant I have a laugh at the grower.


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## Xare (Jul 20, 2010)

*drumroll*


Its time for the final weigh in of my White Poison Hempy SOG


The individual clones are 13-14 grams per

/w 24 clones under the 600 watt light 

Harvest = 330 Grams !




Just over my expected .5 grams per watt


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 20, 2010)

very nice xare just under 12 oz which means just under 3/4 pound. congrats on the final weight and hope you numbers keep going up!


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## notoriousb (Jul 20, 2010)

very nice Xare 
I always guess low and hope to be impressed and Im definitely impressed by your final weigh in.
this pull should hold you over till your outdoor's done 

and thanks for pointing us in the direction of that photoperiod thread


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## chb444220 (Jul 21, 2010)

vedy nice vedy nice. =) beautiful lookin buds


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## Boyz N Da Hood (Jul 21, 2010)

beautiful buds and a very nice pull! congrats bro enjoy it, you certainly deserve it!
thanks for sharing your knowledge..


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 30, 2010)

hows the new round of plants doing?


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## Xare (Jul 30, 2010)

littlegrower2004 said:


> hows the new round of plants doing?


 
They just started to show flowers yesterday. And are about 17 inches tall. 


But Ive been busy working on my Bud Trimmer. The metal blade was a bit scary so I replaced it with some plastic trimmer line. 

I call it the Weed Wacker:

























I used my light stressed clone to test my trimmer prototype. 

All the large fans get shredded and it does an ok job on the small leaf too. If i need to I can adjust the trimmer line height.


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## That 5hit (Jul 30, 2010)

Xare said:


> They just started to show flowers yesterday. And are about 17 inches tall.
> 
> 
> But Ive been busy working on my Bud Trimmer. The metal blade was a bit scary so I replaced it with some plastic trimmer line.
> ...


your the best


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## Xare (Jul 30, 2010)

Adding a bit of Automation to the Hempy SOG.


For my next project I plan on setting up a 20+ gallon rez and drip irrigation for everything. Half Inch tubing from the pump to 1/4 inch drip lines.

Then one 1/2 gallon dripper per plant with Zero Run off, just run the pump for a few mins each day to fill each hempy rez with a daily dose of nutes. 

I found a 5.3 PSI pump that should work fine for the small drip setup I have planned. Its only 100 watts and 1.7 amps.

The Little Giant NK-2


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## Xare (Jul 30, 2010)

Here is the design I mapped out for an irrigation system.

It was planned out in my mind but I put in on paper so I could count / buy the parts. 








And this is what that light poisoned clone got me. A few White Poison S1's (fems) and some nanners.


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 30, 2010)

wow xare didnt realize i was in for so much when i asked but im glad i did haha. im sad we didnt get to see the whole process on your light posioned one once it left the main grow room. pretty sweet that you got seeds off of it and im very interested to see the sex of the them. i like the idea of the drip line system and removing the hassle of hand watering each in that small area. that bud trimmer is looking nice and safe with the weed wacker cord instead of the metal blade. going to come in real handy once those outdoor plants are done flowering in a few months. i saw that last update you had on them and they are looking like monsters!!! going to be alot of work trimming all of those but well worth it in the pounds that youll have. i wouldnt be surprised if some top out near 10ft. lets see the new flowers on your indoor when you get a chance.


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## Xare (Jul 30, 2010)

For that light poisoned clone I just moved it around from room to room to stress it. For its last week it was on my deck. Then I picked those nanners off when the buds were dry. 

I will use them to pollinate one of the outdoor plants.



This is where the 2nd batch is at, soon to have a Drip Irrigation upgrade


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 30, 2010)

oh for a second there i thought it self polinated itself but now that you mention you pollinated one of your outdoor girls, i remember you saying that was the plan. good looking new round of plants, looks like were around the same time for our harvest. keep up the good work and thanks for the updates.


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## Xare (Jul 31, 2010)

To make the best quality S1 seeds you do not want to self pollinate the hermie plant. A self pollinated hermie would have a better chance to pass on a dominate hermie trait. 


Its better to use the hermie pollen to pollinate a non stressed clone. That way only one of the parents is expressing male pods.


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## littlegrower2004 (Jul 31, 2010)

Xare said:


> To make the best quality S1 seeds you do not want to self pollinate the hermie plant. A self pollinated hermie would have a better chance to pass on a dominate hermie trait.
> 
> 
> Its better to use the hermie pollen to pollinate a non stressed clone. That way only one of the parents is expressing male pods.


yeah i understand where your coming from. ive always been confused on how causing a perfect female to turn herm and self pollinating itself to get fem seeds. must be something in the spray that the breeders use that may stop the true herm trait from being expressed in the seeds being produced. still will be very interested to see how much of the herm trait does so up in your seeds if any at all. thanks for sharing your info xare ive learned more from this thread then i have for a long time here on rollitup.


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## IAm5toned (Jul 31, 2010)

it depends more on there mothod of femination.
if there method is rodelization, then the hermie trait can be passed.
if there spoofing the fems with ethylene, then they will be most def female.


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## Xare (Aug 2, 2010)

Most of the clones are now 21 inches tall.

They started off around 7 so they have tripled in height since being put into 12 / 12



Also, I ordered all my parts for the drip irrigation along with the pump and reservoir. I already have a digital timer that has 1 min increments. 


Plants this size can drink 9.5 oz of nutes a day.


.5 gallon drippers should put out 128 oz per hour ( my low pressure setup maybe slower )

in 30 mins its 64 oz
in 15 mins its 32 oz
in 7.5 mins its 16 oz
in 3.75 mins its 8 oz

So running the pump for 4 mins a day should give me around 9.5 oz of nutes to each plant. 

Then its just a matter of dialing in the timer over a period of a few days. Add or takeaway a min depending upon how much water the hempys have. 

When the plants are smaller or in the cooler months I can run the pump for less time. Like 2 mins a day instead of 4

Large mother plants will drink a double dose of nutes so they have a designated 1 gallon per hour dripper. Each dripper line in the mother room is going to have an adjustable flow knob by the dripper encase I need to add or take away plants.


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## That 5hit (Aug 2, 2010)

you could not use the "to plant" tube alltogether 
and just pump nutes into the "from plant" tube
and when the power cuts of the pump 
all the liquid above the over fill hole will return back to the secondary rez


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## Xare (Aug 2, 2010)

If you fill the water past the hempy hole in a two liter hempy pot the perlite floats up and a cavity in the bottom forms.


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## IAm5toned (Aug 3, 2010)

yeah, a slow drip would be superior to a flood system..... perlite and vermiculite will float if you soak it quick.


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## TPIMP (Aug 3, 2010)

great thread


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## Xare (Aug 3, 2010)

One of the cons of a drip system is that the drippers can get clogged. 

So Iam going to add a inline filter that will clean the water before it goes into the irrigation tubes. This setup will not be recirculating. Just pumped nutes to the plants through cleanable drippers filling each hempy rez, zero run off. As the big reservoir empties I will add fresh nutes to re-fill it. 

Also it helps to have a High PSI pump, the pressure will force any obstructions out of the drippers. That is why I went with the NK-2 pump instead of a regular submersible hydroponic pump. It has less GPH flow then an equivalently priced hydro pump but it has a larger impeller and thus more PSI.


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## Xare (Aug 3, 2010)

Digital Timer /w 1 min increments, 5.3 PSI pump, 20+ gallon Rubbermaid Brute reservoir.








In a couple of days I will have the Irrigation parts. Then I can put it all together like Lego's.


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## IAm5toned (Aug 3, 2010)

very nice.
i always wanted to do a true lp aero, with an auto filled tank that has a stirrer, and uses air pressure instead of a pump.
almost like a soda fountain.
ecolabs makes a very similair setup for mixing cleaners and solutions, by ppm.

im constantly on the prowl for one of them whenever im demo'ing a building.
havent gotten lucky yet, but a man has dreams


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## That 5hit (Aug 3, 2010)

so no run off just refills ?
you must have the math dialed in
how often will the drippers turn on and for how long 
or does the setup run 24/7


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## Xare (Aug 3, 2010)

No run-off, drip pans will be there to catch any excess. 

I will refill the big rez as the plants use up the nutes. 

The pump will run 2-4 mins a day to fill the hempys.

I went over the theory and math a few posts up and I will see how it works in real world soon.


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## littlegrower2004 (Aug 4, 2010)

haha yep on paper it all sounds like it should work well. lets hope that continues once its fully operational. have you put any thought into running bigger hempys? or do the 2 liters keep a good root zone for plenty of growth for the sog?


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## Xare (Aug 4, 2010)

I dont think I will ever switch to bigger pots for my SOG. It would require more media for every transplant with no benefit other then longer time between waterings. 

The two liters grow mothers that are 3 times the size of my SOG clones. And all they require is a double dose of nutes.


I have to actually cut the mothers down in size because if I didnt they would outgrow the veg chamber.


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## Xare (Aug 6, 2010)

The stuff for my Drip Irrigation has arrived.

Here is a parts list:

1 punch
10 cleanable button drippers - 1 gph
30 cleanable button drippers - .5 gph
10 in line shut off valve for 1/4 inch tube
40 6 inch stabilizer stakes
7 locking end cap
1 locking hose coupling valve
4 locking hose tee
1 locking hose cross
4 locking hose elbow
1 locking hose adapter Female end 
1 locking hose adapter Male end
1 Inline hose filter
40 barbed connectors 1/4 inch

50 feet of 1/2 inch and 1/4 inch tubing.



Then my timer, pump, and rez with 2 gallon increments marked. 









Its a self contained Automatic Hempy Drip Irrigation system. 








First thing to do is cut a hole in the lid of the rez. And use the cutout to make a flap-like door. 

Then I can put the drip together.


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## Xare (Aug 6, 2010)

Done with the sliding flap-like door for the top of the rez.

It pivots on the bolt at the top so I can open it up and dump in water. And it does not close all the way because the water and power lines need the access. I might need an airstone and later a PPM meter too.


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## Xare (Aug 6, 2010)

OK I put it all together. 

The job that took the longest was straightening the 1/2 inch hose. 

I had to run it under hot water and bend it back against itself to get it to stop curling. 

But putting the drip system together was a snap.


The plants were very dry when I first tested the drip. They drank for about 10 mins before they were full. 

Over the next few days I will be adjusting the timer and watching to see how things go.

When I first started it up one of my end caps was loose and I had a leak that scared me but its all sorted out now. 

Looks like this will work.


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## Longtimetoker (Aug 7, 2010)

First of all, I have been following your thread since April and this is the most awesome SOG I have ever seen! Are you sure you dont have two green thumbs instead of one? My next grow is definitely going to be Hempy. 
I do have 1 question for you about pH. In your first post under the heading Water and Nutrients you state the pH should be 6.0. In post 132 you state Deficiencies will show up if the pH goes below 6.0 and in post 123 you state I checked the pH with my dropper kit and its about 6.3 - 6.5. For clarification, what should the pH of the nutrient water be before watering when using the Hempy method?


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## Xare (Aug 7, 2010)

Vermiculite is a bit alkaline. So when I mix up a batch of media with 75% perlite and 25% verm I like to PH the Water down to 6.0 for the first week or so. 

But for the rest of the grow I feed with 6.5 PH nutes. I find that this range works best for hempy. 6.0 to 6.5

When I mix up a batch of nutes I know that the PH will be right on after I add the nutes. Around 6.5 PH



If the plants are showing any signs of problems the first thing I would do is check the PH of a Hempy reservoir. Tip a bucket and catch some of the run off to test. This will tell you exactly what the PH of the hempy is inside the media. 

Around 5.5 PH new growing tips will be yellow. Sign of a lockout. So I never go below 6.0


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## Xare (Aug 7, 2010)

I added an airstone to the rez and tested the PH 

Its where I expected 6.5

Because this is non recirculating zero run-off system my PH and PPM's should be Stable. 

I only filled it up with 9 gallons of nutes to start with. Lucas Formula


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## Xare (Aug 7, 2010)

Drippers in Action !


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## notoriousb (Aug 7, 2010)

this journal's just getting better and better 
so you just feed them till theyre full and no run off, right?


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## Xare (Aug 7, 2010)

Well I was feeding them every other day with a full dose of nutes about 9.5 ounces per hempy.

But now with the dripper system they will get half that amount every day. 

Zero Run off.

Each individual hempy reservoir will only fill up about half way each day. During summer they tend to drink more so I will have to make adjustments to the timer depending on season and plant size.


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## Longtimetoker (Aug 7, 2010)

Thank you for the clarification Xare. I know different mediums require a different pH and I just wanted to be sure.

Im in the process of getting ready for my 2 liter hempy grow which I will probably start the 1st of September. I havent had a grow in about 12 years so Im going to stretch my legs with bag seed just to get the kinks out. Today I was trying to drill reservoir holes in the 2 liter bottles when it dawned on me that a soldering pencil would do a better job. I got out my 23 watt soldering pencil, let it warm up for about 5 minutes and started punching holes like going through hot butter! Drilled holes are ragged looking but the melted holes are nice and smooth around the edges. The tip for this size soldering pencil is barely less than 3/16. Seems like a small hole, but putting 12 of them around the bottom should do the trick. If a larger hole is needed, just wallow the tip around a bit.


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## Xare (Aug 7, 2010)

Yea that works good, I melted the holes for my two liter hempys with a little steel rod and flames from the stove.


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## Xare (Aug 10, 2010)

The Drip Irrigation is great. Iam lovin it.

No more hand waterings 



Its been quite hot this week, about 90 degree's and the pump has been running for around 10 mins each day so far. My guess is that cooler months will require 5 mins a day. A bit longer then my designed plans but very workable. 


The drippers all flow at a constant rate, there are no leaks, no run off. 



Here is the Veg Chamber with drip lines that I can shuffle around. /w shut off valves.











The Main SOG lines coming from the Rez.












All the WP Clones on Drip.









Now to see how it does under use and through time.

If something were ever to happen to the pump I could manually water every other day till I get a replacement.


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## littlegrower2004 (Aug 11, 2010)

looks good! how far from the tops of the plants is your 600w?


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## Xare (Aug 11, 2010)

About 14 inches. The light is at its maximum height right now.


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## Tiger Woods (Aug 13, 2010)

Much respect man! Were the buds dense? Smoke report please

Peace and keep up the GREAT work


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## Xare (Aug 13, 2010)

Yea, SOG Grows are great for dense nugs. You dont get much little wispy bud at all. 

Smoke Report:

My first test of a bud was with my vaporizer. I put part of a bud in the wand started tokin. It hit like some of the Hash I have been vaping. Nice thick hits and it lasted a long time in the vape wand. If something is of high quality you can get alot of hits with the vaporizer. Low quality buds will cash out sooner. 

The White Poison in the Vape knocked my dick in the dirt. I was seriously proper stoned. Easily the best stuff I ever grown and the best I tried in the last 10 years. 


You can tell its a sativa because you wake up and feel your heart get racey, but at the same time you have a strong overall buzz. 

The Smell and taste is Spicy and Sweet. Like a peppermint candy. It gets that from the Durban Poison side.

The buds stick to each other alot. I can open up a zip and take it all out in one big chunk.


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## Xare (Aug 14, 2010)

This is some White Poison Bubble Hash made from the extra harvest leaf.


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## Xare (Aug 14, 2010)

Its 4 grams of Melty Bubble.

I spun up and passed my trim through the bubble bags twice. 

The bottom disk that is small and dark is both runs of 25u

Above that is the 75u - run 1 on the left, run 2 on the right.

And on top is the 45u runs


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## Xare (Aug 14, 2010)

Macro shots:

75u































45u


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## littlegrower2004 (Aug 14, 2010)

that hash looks incredibly dank and tastey! going to be real nice to have that every two months or so.


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## drop (Aug 15, 2010)

try an MH bulb through 12 | 12 until you feel the stretch is subsiding and you have good bud set. buy a quality one. way tighter internodal development in my work, and I use eye hortilux hps bulbs which have more blue than most HPS. No way it can compete with what a good MH does. of course you get more useable light out of hps so switch to that in, say week 4 (when the red is less important than luminous flux) and sugar leaves can make full use of the extra light.

the intention is to either get less height but more bud sites or the same hieght as you have now but WAY more bud sites. you should also notice more pronounced root development/more root mass resulting from a quality MH bulb. If top side = bottom side (above ground mirrored below ground) you catch my drift. with more bud sites and more root mass, the yield should increase.

a veg and 4 weeks of 12|12 with MH (instead of switching to HPS right on the flip or just going the whole way through with it including veg) took me to the next level in a cabinet (horizontal) I'm trying to hit a pound of smokeable in off a 400W light. best so far after a year and a half is 12 ounces. average is 9 - 10 ounces. sog, 4" rockwool blocks flood and drain. 5" centers, adjust-a-wing medium, lumatek, 24 plants (but more mountainous/indica than your strain tho new stuff is kush and doesn't yield as well as previous hybrid)

I also am a staunch follower of lucas. strict purist is good. you can also pull some sneaky tricks borrowed from the green house industry and get your P-K a bit higher in week 1 through 3. idea is to go up from the 1400 ppm (or 1000 ppm) Lucas to, say 1600 to 1800 AND MAKE SURE IT IS MAINTAINED HIGH. keeping roots on the wetter side (while still maintaining health) and higher TDS or ppm at the appropriate time reduces stretch and works. i heard this re-greenhouse tomatoes and tried it. just get it back down after good bud set so more water is available and expansion/cell division resumes in earnest.

and i noticed a difference when i went with 36 hours of dark on the flip. like bud sites showing 6-7 days sooner (!!)

can you get something white on the whole floor? my light meter doesn't really register much difference with more upwards reflection but the plants benefit. the more blue light you can get on leaves (even underside) the better in terms of stretch. and since you grow strains with equatorial in them, you need as many advantages as you can get.

thank you for posting this journal. words cannot describe what it has done for me. i also run verticals and have problems getting small rooted cuttings to develop evenly because i go from rockwool starter plugs to hydroton.... always need a week of separation when crossing a media barrier (wet - rockwool, moist - perlite, dry - hydroton) so can now use net cups with the rockwool in perlite in mini hempy beercups till loading them in the hydroton filled vertical. I'm mostly on cannibis-world.org but this site has been HUGE for info.

peace

ps. try an MH bulb


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## Xare (Aug 15, 2010)

Thanks for dropping in 

Ive been thinking about improvements that I could make to reach 1 gram per watt. As it is I am getting around .6 grams per watt. 

When this current batch is done and removed from the flower chamber I plan on replacing the lame white cardboard with some proper reflective walls. As well as upgrading my reflector to an Umbrella style one that will more evenly cover my 4x4 space. 

Then the next batch going in to flower will be experimental. Instead of Lollypopping I plan on stripping the upper fan leaf and allowing the lower branching to form and fill in with buds. Upper fans removed on day 14 and day 40 of flower. 

This is a technique employed by a SOG grower named Jrosek. He does 25 clones under a 600 hps in 1 gallon buckets and yields around 2 pounds per batch. 

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=1942467&postcount=39

Jrosek is one of the main reasons I grow SOG.


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## drop (Aug 15, 2010)

Cool!

Jrosek's cut looks like it has more indica in it than what you run.... but in any case there is more benefit to growing bud than fan leaves as long as the plant has the structure you like. At 2 weeks and then at 6 weeks works for fan leaf removal. Lollypopping or pistilwhipping is fine... think the intention was more for SOGs with 3 - 4 ft. plants in them b/c even with 400W, the penetration is enough to fire up lower bud sites. If they are removed yield takes a hit unless the grower is inexperienced.

In your case you will like the results. You can always let it go more than 2 weeks then start thinning at 4 wks. I just cleared out the top fan leaves in my experimental 400W cabinet but that was at 2.5 wks, only on some plants and was done so they don't hit the light. I am presently whacking most all fan leaves in another system (vertical) right now. Lots of theory and diff opinions and best way is to just try it.

Your plants are shorter and would benefit by NOT lollypopping, in my opinion, as long as you manage bud sites and open them up. suckers can still go but wait till your sure stretch is done or it will turbo charge the stretch. Basic pruning, take of side branches increases height and you don't want that. Please keep using a horizontal orientated light. You talked about an umbrella-style and I hope yer not going to a vertical bulb in one of those growstars or supernova. If I could get you to try an Adjust-a-wing... oh man you'd like it.

If you rock a MH bulb until 3 or 4 weeks into flower, you will increase your yield in my opinion. (don't forget to then switch to HPS). The plant will stack nodes, stretch will be down and the blue light will also result in a more robust root system. If you have circulation fans blowing well, expect a thicker stalk. If you have the ability to precision control your temps/humidity, drop temps on the flip till the stretch ends. As calyxs start to stack, get it hotter then.

Anyways, thank you for the reference to icmg thread. Something to read all night !! I'll be changing/new account my handle to match my icmag and cannabis-world handle so i'll post that in all of my current 4 posts. The info i wrote to you is from my direct experience and has been tested and proved in my space with the strains I work with. Most important is the bulb... don't think the lumens are more important than spectrum at the flip and thru stretch. If you can afford it, try the MH and don't switch it out till almost 4 weeks. Trust me. For people who can't afford both bulbs and read Jorge's bibles, it's better to go with just an HPS but you are not a beginner. The HPS' lumen advantage is really only necessary once sugar leaves have popped out. IT DOES NOT INCREASE BUD SITES IN EARLY FLOWERING. in fact it will work against SOG growers b/c cannabis is super competitive and stretches/blocks out other plants in order to find the blue light. HPS is wrong spectrum but more power.

I have a vertical thread and a "trying to hit a pound with one 400W" thread on cannibis-world.org. You can find it if you want to check me out (under a diff handle) but that is only for your entertaiment and will not really impact what you are doing. A very experienced grower there (they all are) reccos using a mixture of HPS and MH. Interesting. Another very good grower (considered one of the best north of the border, in the entire country, by Marc Emery's guy) uses HPS exclusively. So what do you do? Well, neither guy runs high density systems and grow trees. If buddy number 2 only rocks HPS then MH isn't totally necessary unless there's an advantage. Well, in SOG (horizontal like you and my cabinet or vertical like my other work) small adjustments result in huge gains. These other guys veg for 2 or 3 months. We go a week so any little thing we can do is compressed and it's impact is magnified. The MH only switched to an HPS at 4 weeks (on an 8 wk strain) is just sucha thing,

peace


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## Xare (Aug 16, 2010)

MH through the two week pre-flower stretch sounds logical. My next ballast will be a conversion. 

Jrosek uses a mini Sunsoaker umbrella reflector, the bulb is still mounted horizontally. I think it will fill out my area a bit better then the basic rectangle one I use now. 

After researching his SOG I might rethink my position on 1 gallon Hempys. Maybe try one and compare its yield with a two liter clone. 

His stripping practice is pretty interesting and I just found out that Dali Hempy does the same type of defoliation in flower.


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## drop (Aug 16, 2010)

I see you found c-w.org!! cool. I'll respond right after your first post there so check back.

I'm going to try and also post here because this site has been a huge help to me, I'm grateful for it, most of the searches I do on google for specific things return rollitup in the first few results and the info is usually exactly what I need. Not trying to redirect members to the other site; just put a lot of work into my posts there.

I thought maybe you had digital ballasts in which case you can just plug a bulb in. maybe you meant conversion bulb instead of conversion ballast. In any case I've been very happy with Lumatek. I warranty'd one recently and it went off very well.... called head office in Cali and they set me up locally. re-re so easy.

while I was in the shop, the guy (hydro store) told me that 25% of all Lumateks come back (but that there is never a problem exchanging them). He said Quantum never come back. I need 400W, Quantum didn't have 400W at the time... I may try Quantum in the future. I use vertical systems from a lady who also distributes Quantum and she said the 600W run very cool. the Lumateks get hot. Digital's are the way to go: cooler, safer, maybe more light output.

checkout the adjust-a-wings (adjustawings.com). I use them, as you will see on the other site. I bought a light meter off eBay and tested it out with 250W, 400W and 600W.

the result/conclusion? it's hard to improve on penetration using a reflector. You are mainly at the mercy of the wattage of the bulb for penetration... some reflectors can sort of increase the angles of penetration (instead of just straight down it sort of also comes in from the sides) but what seems really important for SOG is footprint coverage. The double-parabolic style of adjust-a-wings has the horizontal bulb covering the area a naked bulb would.... but it concentrates reflected light to the outside edges of the foot print. when you measure the light (foot candle readings) it falls off as you move laterally away from the bulb but then as you move under the edges of the parabolic shape, the readings jump up again!! It's really cool and the plants respond.

they are expensive, don't bother with the super-spreader option (waste of time).

read the whole thread on icmag. Jrosek left but reappears right towards the end. chef is interesting. the big bed Jro was doing was looking awesome! the logic behind it makes total sense!! and the maintenance would be quite low. I also like you auto-irrigation system here... so many options!!

theoretically, less media (2 L vs. 1 gallon) could drive growth faster as wet/dry cycle is reduced as the plant gets bigger. More work obviously (unless your auto system is dialed - then it's just turning up the frequency of irrigations) but the yield should improve! there is that fine dance between too small and too big right? all about optimums...

*now posting under the user name "disciple"


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## Xare (Aug 16, 2010)

Yea, registered to cw awhile ago to read Lucas's posts. 

I have a Digital Greenhouse 600 watt ballast. It came with an HPS bulb but I think your right I can use MH in it. I guess I just need a Metal Halide Conversion bulb. 

The rectangle reflector I have now throws more of its light back and forth and is weaker on the sides. So it has a rectangle footprint. I think something with a square footprint will be more efficient in my space. 

I read that whole "Bigger is Better" thread before I setup this SOG and again a few days ago. I also just finished the sticky there on "Defoliation High Yield technique"


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## REALSTYLES (Aug 17, 2010)

I wish I could do SOG but my plants get big 


https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/357800-blue-dream-grand-daddy-purple.html see for yourself


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## disciple (Aug 17, 2010)

Hope you like how I apply the technique. Full Journal to be posted (on the other site at least) in a few weeks.

I really like how meticulous and methodical you are!

Keeftreez is awesome. His grow tunnels are PRIME examples of the wonders of parabolic reflection. hope you've seen those threads. mad production out of 400W bulbs!!

thank you for the reference to his thread on defoliation. just settling in for a nice long read.

peace

*reading the keef thread now, f*cking incredible!!! I'm chopping the 1lb/400W cabinet... no fan will be safe!
thank you again so much. (and keef had a slightly different handle when he did the grow tunnel thread. search w/google... think it'll appear on c-w reposted by a different user like Agent Smith. Strongly consider the parabolic reflector!!! build it like they show (super easy) or buy adjust-a-wings.)


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## disciple (Aug 17, 2010)

posted some pics here.


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## Xare (Aug 17, 2010)

I would have stripped the batch I have in flower now but ive already lolly popped them during the first bit of flower. So most of the lower branching was removed. I noticed that this batch of clones grew a fair amount of branches even tho I didnt veg them out at all this time. 

The way I see it Lollypopping and Stripping are exclusive to each other in a SOG, you either do one or the other. Try to get a bunch of single cola lollys crammed in together or strip and let the lower buds fill in with a smaller number of plants. 

I have tried to do 36 clones in my space but it was cramped. I think 25 clones with some developed lower branching and defoliation of the top canopy sounds like a nice balance for my SOG space. 

I ran an indica before in my setup that was alot shorter and it was pretty branchy. It yielded the same .6 grams per watt. 

Tonight I fill up the bubble cloner with cuts from my WP mothers. They will root for the next 3 weeks. And they will be the first batch I try the stripping on. 


The mini sunsoaker says its a parabolic design because you can raise or lower the light in the reflector thus adjusting the light, but its not curved like the adjust a wings. I know other growers that use the adjust a wings, they use them with multiple lights. The open ended design makes them suitable for this. 

I will just be running one light in this location. So Iam leaning toward this closed in style of the parabolic umbrella that Jrosek uses. 

When reading around I found another grower named Killa12345 that grows with 1 gallon hempys and a 600 watter, he was growing WW sog and getting 1.5-2 LB with no stripping. 

So there may be some truth to the As Below, So Above - Roots to Buds correlation. Bigger pots for bigger yields.


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## Xare (Aug 17, 2010)

I can attest to the fact that my 1 gallon hempy mothers that have been in the grow room for about a month do seem to show more Vigor then the two liter hempy mothers. 

They are now the same height and tonight they are getting a major trim down.

If I was ever to switch to 1 gallon hempys for my sog, well that would call for a new Journal 

Something like: "1 gram per watt Hempy SOG"


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## Xare (Aug 17, 2010)

REALSTYLES said:


> I wish I could do SOG but my plants get big
> 
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/357800-blue-dream-grand-daddy-purple.html see for yourself


White Poison gets big too, I have some 9 footers outdoors. Its all in how you manage the plants.


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## Tiger Woods (Aug 27, 2010)

Funny you mentioned your outdoor grow been looing for the link. Will you post that icmag thread of yours again please and thank you. Love your grows

Peace and good vibes


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## Tiger Woods (Aug 27, 2010)

Sorry about the double post but the link to the method of keeping your girls in veg outdoors as well please, it was on icmag too.


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## notoriousb (Aug 27, 2010)

Xare said:


> Thanks for dropping in
> 
> Ive been thinking about improvements that I could make to reach 1 gram per watt. As it is I am getting around .6 grams per watt.
> 
> ...


daamn 2 lb's under a 600w??  that's awesome! do you know if he hand waters his hempys?

I think Im switching to that style of about 25 clones in one gal hempys for my next indoor run 

you mentioned there's no run off when you feed, but do you still make drainage holes in the bottom of your hempys?


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## That 5hit (Aug 27, 2010)

notoriousb said:


> daamn 2 lb's under a 600w??  that's awesome! do you know if he hand waters his hempys?
> 
> I think Im switching to that style of about 25 clones in one gal hempys for my next indoor run
> 
> you mentioned there's no run off when you feed, but do you still make drainage holes in the bottom of your hempys?


me 2
how long did he vegg for


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## notoriousb (Aug 27, 2010)

That 5hit said:


> me 2
> how long did he vegg for


thats another question I forgot to ask. thanks 5hit


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## Xare (Aug 27, 2010)

Tiger Woods said:


> Sorry about the double post but the link to the method of keeping your girls in veg outdoors as well please, it was on icmag too.


 Two stickys from the outdoor section will give you the information you need to keep clones in veg.
"Finishing times, Photoperiod, Latitude, and how it all works" and "preventing early spring flowering with clones"

my outdoor link here : https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/314770-white-poison-2-liter-hempy-6.html#post4412752




notoriousb said:


> daamn 2 lb's under a 600w??  that's awesome! do you know if he hand waters his hempys?
> 
> I think Im switching to that style of about 25 clones in one gal hempys for my next indoor run
> 
> you mentioned there's no run off when you feed, but do you still make drainage holes in the bottom of your hempys?



Jrosek is growing in "IRB"'s That stands for an internal reservoir bucket. 

Its basically the same as a hempy but without the hole in the side. Hempys do not have holes in the bottom. That would make it a drain to waste hydro system. 

Hempys have a hole in the side so that you will never over fill the rez. And so that you can flush them if you overfeed. ( noob mistakes )


He manually waters with a hose and a pump system that sprays nutrients. Counting a number of seconds to fill each bucket. 




That 5hit said:


> me 2
> how long did he vegg for


 Less then a week. As he is growing SOG and his plants finish no more then 18 inches tall


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## That 5hit (Aug 27, 2010)

Xare said:


> Less then a week. As he is growing SOG and his plants finish no more then 18 inches tall


WOW
thats almost right out of the cloner right into flowering, thats amazing , 2 lb's with a 600w hps
must be the root space
i must try this 600w, 25 clone, 1gal hempy sog


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## Xare (Aug 27, 2010)

The Defoliation he does on the 2nd and 6th weeks promotes branching and adds weight to the lower bud sites as well.


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## Tiger Woods (Aug 28, 2010)

Xare- thank you and keep up the great work

Peace and good vibes


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## Favre2Harvin (Sep 9, 2010)

*Hey Xare, couldnt help but admire your grow, you keep a great journal. About how big could I expect my clones to get if I were to put them all into flower at 7-8 inches tall?? *


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## Xare (Sep 10, 2010)

Expect them to at least double and maybe even triple in height, it depends on your genetics.


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## IAm5toned (Sep 10, 2010)

i put mine into flower @ 6 inches and they finish anywhere from 16-28 inches in height, depending on strains.
kush genetics really seem to respond well to this style of growing


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## littlegrower2004 (Sep 10, 2010)

any updates on your indoor SOG run? cant wait to see some more bud shots and especially an update on that outdoor!


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## Xare (Sep 10, 2010)

I am five days from harvesting a batch in flower now. 

Its getting a flush. All ive done is add fresh water to the big rez when it was empty. 

So the batch is finishing off and maturing. Ill try to take some budshots @ harvest time when I test my trimmer on a whole crop. 

Ive bought some Mylar to hang up in the flower area as well as a Parabolic Umbrella Reflector. And ive stocked up on nutes. This next batch is getting some Botanicare Silica Blast in the feeding rez. I also got more GH flora for lucas, and some more CNS 17 ripe for bloom PK booster.


I have another rotation of hempy clones sitting in the veg area ready to be moved into flower. 1 of them is in a one gallon hempy to test. 

This will be the first batch I try Defoliation with.


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## Xare (Sep 10, 2010)

Drip Irrigation Maintenance:

When the flower area is clear of plants I can take care of the Drip Irrigation. 

The Filter should be cleaned. 
The Rez needs to be washed and rinsed out good. 
The Irrigation system might have sediment in the tubes so it needs a Flushing. 

To flush the system you just unscrew the endcaps and run clean water through the system. (ill do this outside) Any tiny particles that got past the filter like dirt, grit, or fibers that could block the drippers will be flushed away. 

Then drain the fresh water out of the system, and screw the caps back on tight. Its ready to go.


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## That 5hit (Sep 10, 2010)

so, is the auto drip system well worth it ......


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## Favre2Harvin (Sep 10, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> i put mine into flower @ 6 inches and they finish anywhere from 16-28 inches in height, depending on strains.
> kush genetics really seem to respond well to this style of growing


Hey man I am curious to know from the information you gave me on about how big they finish up at about how much do you get per clone under these circumstances?? thanks


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## Xare (Sep 10, 2010)

That 5hit said:


> so, is the auto drip system well worth it ......


 The Auto drip is nice because I dont have to Mix up nutes and hand feed every other day. 

I just mix up nutes once a week and dump it in the rez. Right now the timer is set for 8 mins a day and that keeps them very full. The weather is a bit cooler so the next batch will start off with 5 mins a day. 

All the drippers work, no clogs and it very evenly distributes my water. No leaks at all. I will use drip irrigation for every grow from now on.


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## That 5hit (Sep 10, 2010)

Favre2Harvin said:


> Hey man I am curious to know from the information you gave me on about how big they finish up at about how much do you get per clone under these circumstances?? thanks


theres no real way of telling
this is why eveyone is giving you a XX-XX answer



Xare said:


> The Auto drip is nice because I dont have to Mix up nutes and hand feed every other day.
> 
> I just mix up nutes once a week and dump it in the rez. Right now the timer is set for 8 mins a day and that keeps them very full. The weather is a bit cooler so the next batch will start off with 5 mins a day.
> 
> All the drippers work, no clogs and it very evenly distributes my water. No leaks at all. I will use drip irrigation for every grow from now on.


 great man..LOL
i may have to invest in one of these auto systems

hey Xare yo may have to chcage the name of your thread to "auto hempy"..LOL


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## Xare (Sep 10, 2010)

Ya, I consider this Journal Complete. 

I will answer any questions if people have them. And Ill put up some shots of this harvest and my upgrades. 

Then Ill do another thread when I can get 1 gram per watt with drip irrigated hempys.


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## IAm5toned (Sep 11, 2010)

Favre2Harvin said:


> Hey man I am curious to know from the information you gave me on about how big they finish up at about how much do you get per clone under these circumstances?? thanks


anywhere from a quarter to 17-18g some strains run better than others....
strains that have responded extremely well-
aurora B by the flying dutchmen
kill a watt by serious seeds
8ball kush by barneys farm
white russian by serious seeds
lemon sour deisel aka LSD by barney's farm- long finisher but well worth the weight. some phenos have a vanilla flav. sativa dom also
lemon skunk by DNA genetics
ceres skunk by ceres seeds


the kill a watt is by far one of the fastest finishers i have ever ran with. i could prolly do two harvests of killawatt in the same time frame as one run of LSD, lol... the whie russian is also a very nice product. i am finding that serious seeds lives up to there name. i have been through i dunno, at least 3 dozen breeders over the years since bog, and i wish i had given serious a chance earlier.


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## IAm5toned (Sep 11, 2010)

Xare, thanks for letting me lurk around your thread through out your grow.
im glad to see it went so well for you.
i also went and got a drip system myself... like you, im happier than a kid with a new ps3... checking them instead iof watering them, everyday, is well worth it.

did you know that lowe's carries micro irrigation systems these days? i about fell over when i saw it in the plumbing dept. 100$ later (50 pump, 50 in tubing and heads and parts) i used an old cycle timer i had lying around and badda bing! im a once a week kinda guy lol.

im going to try soil/hempy hybrids now. i had an lsd that produced 18g that grew in aprox 14-16 oz's of medium. i put a 6" pot with super soil in it on top of a hempy dixie cup and filled the void with a 50/50 mix of perlite vermiculite. i was expecting to fail, and instead it outgrew all of my other plants so.....


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## smokeyjoes (Sep 11, 2010)

Xare Great journal you have answered many questions for me and helped me along with my first hempy grow.

Could you have a look at some pics of my babies as they look really sick and am worried for them.

First 4 pics are my G13xHaze the ones i'm worried about.

View attachment 1149949 View attachment 1149950 View attachment 1149953 

View attachment 1149947

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/360640-g13-x-haze-hempy-grow.html

These are my 2 Auto Assasins, think they ok but could you please check as i'm still a nooby. thanks


View attachment 1149948 View attachment 1149951

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/360635-auto-assasin-hempy-grow-under.html


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## DownOnWax (Sep 11, 2010)

Oh my God, White Poison sounds fucking Awesome!

My favorite strain of all time is Durban Poison and who does not like White Widow?!

Looks great bro +


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## Xare (Sep 11, 2010)

smokeyjoes said:


> Xare Great journal you have answered many questions for me and helped me along with my first hempy grow.
> 
> Could you have a look at some pics of my babies as they look really sick and am worried for them.
> 
> First 4 pics are my G13xHaze the ones i'm worried about.


 I posted a response on your G13xHaze thread.


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## Xare (Sep 11, 2010)

IAm5toned said:


> Xare, thanks for letting me lurk around your thread through out your grow.
> im glad to see it went so well for you.
> i also went and got a drip system myself... like you, im happier than a kid with a new ps3... checking them instead iof watering them, everyday, is well worth it.
> 
> ...


 Hehe, ya the drip irrigation is like plumber lego's its very easy to adapt and change. I spend alot less time in the grow area now. I just go in to peak at the plants and make sure nothing is going south, like plants leaning over or signs of deficiency or bugs. Check the water level of the rez and just admire the plants.


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## Xare (Sep 13, 2010)

Gonna trim tomorrow, so ive taken the plants out of the flower area to give them some darkness. 

And install upgrades, Mylar plus a Parabolic Umbrella Reflector. 


Here is a shot of my Drip Irrigation and the upgrades. 














And this is a clone of White Poison a day before Harvest:
































The room is rocking again with 24 two liter hempys and a test one gallon hempy.


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## littlegrower2004 (Sep 13, 2010)

that plant looks real good xare! even the nugs near the bottom are good size which is awesome. looks like theres alot of white hairs on this harvest though..


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## Xare (Sep 13, 2010)

Yea I pulled um out of the flower area a bit early because I was ready to do the work. 

They are sitting on a table in the dark now and I guess I should give them a few extra days just chilling there. 


Ive got the flower area surrounded by reflective walls on all 4 sides now. Duck tape, Velcro and a Staple gun 

Its made it noticeably brighter in there. The light is spread alot more evenly now and the reflector throws a nice square light footprint.


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## Xare (Sep 13, 2010)

Ohh yea I had one plant leaning over and its lower buds were getting full light exposure and they grew to be quite big. It shows promise for the defoliation iam gonna try next. 

Also the head buds are bigger this round, because the plants are about 8 to 10 inches shorter then the first run the weight went where it could. Overall its looking the same yield wise.


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## notoriousb (Sep 14, 2010)

Mmm the WP looks great.

when you say defoliation-- what exactly do you plan on removing? I was thinking about trying this out but didnt want to start taking the needed foliage


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## That 5hit (Sep 14, 2010)

its like reverse lollipopping whereyou cut away the top fans but leave all the bottom branches to grow


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## Xare (Sep 14, 2010)

The idea is to remove fan leaves that block light to the budsites after flowering "stretch" and again around day 40 of flower. 

Only fans that have a stem and are blocking buds are removed. The little leaves on the budsites then take over for the rest of flowering. 

For a SOG you can Defoliate instead of Lollypop. The lower branching that you normally remove have budsites that will add to the yield when they get proper lighting. 

If your growing larger plants then SOG clones you should start the defoliation in veg to promote branching. 


Lollys are great for hand trimming but now that ive got power trimming capability I want to fill in weight on some branches.


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## notoriousb (Sep 14, 2010)

That 5hit said:


> its like reverse lollipopping whereyou cut away the top fans but leave all the bottom branches to grow





Xare said:


> The idea is to remove fan leaves that block light to the budsites after flowering "stretch" and again around day 40 of flower.
> 
> Only fans that have a stem and are blocking buds are removed. The little leaves on the budsites then take over for the rest of flowering.
> 
> ...


thanks to both you guys. Uncle Ben had me going on the idea that the more foliage the bigger the bud but I had some issues with that lately and now agree that lower sites that get more light due to defoliation will bulk up much more than if the big fans blocking the light are left on


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## Favre2Harvin (Sep 15, 2010)

*Hey man could you let me know about how big your clones ended up in the end on average?? and before you put them in flower?? sorry im just trying to get a good idea of how big the stretch will be...*


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## Xare (Sep 15, 2010)

Favre2Harvin said:


> *Hey man could you let me know about how big your clones ended up in the end on average?? and before you put them in flower?? sorry im just trying to get a good idea of how big the stretch will be...*


 I put the clones in flower when they were 7 inches tall. They are now about 21 inches tall. 

That means they tripled in height since they were put into flower. 

Sativa's can triple, indicas will more then double. It depends on your genetics.


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## Favre2Harvin (Sep 16, 2010)

Xare said:


> I put the clones in flower when they were 7 inches tall. They are now about 21 inches tall.
> 
> That means they tripled in height since they were put into flower.
> 
> Sativa's can triple, indicas will more then double. It depends on your genetics.


*Hey man thank you for your information. very helpful. Have you ever run an Indica/sativa strain? *


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## Xare (Sep 16, 2010)

Hybrids can stretch anywhere in between double to triple in size. 

Ive ran some seeds before this that were indica dominant. They were shorter plants that yielded about the same.


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## littlegrower2004 (Sep 16, 2010)

xare- have you ever thought about adding CO2 into your set up? i just did some defoliation last night on my girls after looking into some threads on icmag and listening to you talk about it. my set up isnt any where near being settled in right so i liked the idea and results some people were getting like jrosek and decided to give this a try to see if it works. ill report back to you in a couple weeks on how it worked for my girls if you care to see. i had already trimmed lower branching which would have benefitted but it will still be nice to see how it helps the big branches fill in. hope your current run is doing GREAT!


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## Xare (Sep 16, 2010)

My grow room is not sealed, if I added extra CO2 it would be evacuated in moments by my air exchange. 

I bring in alot of fresh air so the ambient CO2 levels that are naturally in the environment is the only CO2 I use. 

I could take my fan setup out of the window and install an Air Conditioner for control of the temps but then I would need to add a propane burner to keep the CO2 PPM's up. 

As I have it setup now my fan brings in fresh air and keep the temps in an acceptable range with low operational costs.


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## littlegrower2004 (Sep 16, 2010)

Xare said:


> My grow room is not sealed, if I added extra CO2 it would be evacuated in moments by my air exchange.
> 
> I bring in alot of fresh air so the ambient CO2 levels that are naturally in the environment is the only CO2 I use.
> 
> ...


well all that is definetely a good reason not to be using it at the moment. i dont have any personal use with it but it just seems that it may a bigger step in your set up to get a higher G.P.W. ratio, which i assume your trying to do. great job on your grows and cant wait to see another one sometime!


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## GangstaChronic (Sep 16, 2010)

what do you think of this idea for a Hempy Bucket?

2 liter coke bottle... filled with Hydroton ... with a wick in the middle reaching from the bottom of the reservoir to the top of the roots.

should prevent the drying of hydroton too fast and supply enough water/oxygen for the roots to continue growing without watering too much. i'm thinking to water once a day in the beginning and once every other day when the roots touch the reservoir.


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## Xare (Sep 16, 2010)

Vermiculite is my Wick. 

Ive tried a hempy with 100% perlite before but the root zone was smaller compared to one with a mixture of 75 % perlite to 25 % verm. 

The roots wanted to grow closer to the reservoir instead of spreading out all through the media. Also the top of the pot would dry out alot faster between waterings. 

In Hydroton clay pebbles this effect would be much more pronounced. So, maybe you could mix it with 25 % of rockwool flock.


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## GangstaChronic (Sep 19, 2010)

Thanks for your reply, Xare.

i've been inspired by your thread. furthermore, i've looked up that JROSEK technique of trimming all the fan leaves and i love what i'm seeing.

i'll be looking for more of your journals.


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## Favre2Harvin (Oct 11, 2010)

*Where is your new journal?? or have you not made one yet?? *


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## Xare (Oct 11, 2010)

I don't have it started yet. Too much going on right now. 

Tonight I have to bring in the rest of my guerrilla outdoor and defoliate my SOG. 

I will be taking clones for the next batch after the 18th, so maybe ill start a new one then.


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## GangstaChronic (Oct 17, 2010)

how's the defoliating going?


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## Xare (Oct 17, 2010)

The Defoil went really well. 

Instead of cutting the lower branches away for a Lolly Pop ive removed the Fans 

Leaving all that growth and budsites to fill up with weight. 


I did not have to remove alot of leaf to make a large change in the canopy. 


Here are some shots of my Day 21 Defoil:

Before,







After,







After Side View,


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## notoriousb (Oct 18, 2010)

I've never thought about something pertaining to growing as much as a I have since you mentioned and explained the defoliation. 
I guess its so interesting because it's so rarely practiced. what a difference it makes tho.
so you defoliated this first time at day 21-- you plan on defoliating once more, correct?


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## GangstaChronic (Oct 18, 2010)

thanks man, you are an inspiration


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## littlegrower2004 (Oct 18, 2010)

Xare- this new run on your system looks great! i would have to say this is going to be the best producing batch by the looks of them. that defoliating works wonders too! in just a week youll see a significant amount of bud forming and new leafs growing!


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## Xare (Oct 18, 2010)

I chose to do the defoil on day 21 and 45 instead of 14 and 40. They had a bit more stretching to do so I decided to wait for the later stripping schedule.

Jrosek has used both, and I think in the end settled on 21/45



This is a week after my first stripping,

Day 28:


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## littlegrower2004 (Oct 18, 2010)

thats a nice amount of bud change in those! any way you can rotate a few of them out of the center to the side? looks like those on the sides arent swelling up quite as much but still look real good!


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## Xare (Oct 18, 2010)

I noticed that, and I think I need to make an adjustment to my new parabolic reflector. I need to raise the light in the umbrella more so it throws light out to the side farther. 

Gonna do that now.


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## littlegrower2004 (Oct 18, 2010)

Xare said:


> I noticed that, and I think I need to make an adjustment to my new parabolic reflector. I need to raise the light in the umbrella more so it throws light out to the side farther.
> 
> Gonna do that now.


sounds like that should take care of it. did you see any difference in the stretch height of this grow compared to those that werent defoliated? they look a bit less from the pics and the top nugs look to be more nuggy and harder appearing this time!


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## Xare (Oct 18, 2010)

They are close to the same height as my second batch. The first stripping was done after the stretch so they are as tall as they can get for a 7 inch sog clone. About 21 inches tall now.

Its easy to see bud structure with the fans removed, and easy for the light to get there too 

Ive been running Silica Blast with this batch and I can tell the stems are thicker and stronger. Hopefully this will solve my leaning problem.


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## Xare (Oct 19, 2010)

Ohh and the one gallon hempy does not seem to be out preforming the two liter / half gallon hempys. 

Its doing just as good but does not have a visible advantage over my smaller pots so far.


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## littlegrower2004 (Oct 19, 2010)

Xare said:


> Ohh and the one gallon hempy does not seem to be out preforming the two liter / half gallon hempys.
> 
> Its doing just as good but does not have a visible advantage over my smaller pots so far.


i was wondering about that, just wasnt sure if that was this grow or the previous. the 2 liters must be the perfect size to not waste space. how did it go moving the bulb? see any difference in light exposure to the outer plants?


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## Xare (Oct 19, 2010)

This reflector has an adjustable sliding mount for the bulb that focuses the light footprint. I loosened the wing nuts to raise it a bit. That should help with spreading the light out to the edges better.


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## Xare (Oct 19, 2010)

My grower friend stopped over for a 4:20 visit today 

I guess he got his hands on a Skunk #1 cut and he might share soon hehe.


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## GangstaChronic (Oct 20, 2010)

Xare, with the defol method, do you think it would be alright to put the plants closer together - and even add more plants to the scene? thus increasing yield?

i know you've got a set watering schematic but in theory?


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## Xare (Oct 20, 2010)

Yea I think with defoil you will be able to cram plants together close. 

Right now I have 5 rows of 5 so 25 total, ive tried 6 rows of 6 without trimming or stripping and the Canopy was cramped. 

But with Defoil you could go as high as 8 rows of 8 in a 4 x 4. 

I read that Jrosek was doing 11 rows of 11 in a 5.5 x 5.5 under a 1000 watt hps. When they are crammed that tight together you will need to reach in and bend lower branches around so they get good light after the stripping.


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## littlegrower2004 (Oct 20, 2010)

ya i agree with the need to bend lower branches if you cram them together. on the plant that ive left all lower branches and defoliated, it had a lot more lower branching which seemed IMO to be something that may prevent the addition of more plants. the reason of defoliating is to allow the lower buds to fill in, instead of cutting them off, which makes cramming plants in cause the same shading as the fan leaves would be doing. may be possible to keep them lollipops but still defoliate and increase the number of plants instead. make a huge bud on a bunch of plants.


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## marmarb (Oct 20, 2010)

xare i havent been to riu in months or close to a yr but dude your grows are fucking sick seriously ive been growing autos and im bout to start my 1st 12/12 strain and going to go hydro for the first time and your hempy grows have deff got me stoked at what i can do i got the soils grows down so now to move up to hydro and gonna have the same setup as you so thanks for your grows oh gonna be growing northern lights so thanks again gonna rep you up


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## Xare (Oct 20, 2010)

Thanks man, you will be happy switching to normal genetics and hempys for sure. 

An advantage of this setup is its low profile. SOG, like auto's keeps things short.

If I had full ceilings to work with I would have setup a DWC, or areoponics to grow larger plants. 

But because of my height restriction and the need to keep things low I came up with this hempy sog grow. I think alot of cabinet growers would love hempys and drip irrigation.


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## Boonierat (Oct 21, 2010)

Where is this Jrosek thread?


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## notoriousb (Oct 21, 2010)

do you think the similar results could be obtainable using a smaller sog dwc grow in the small tubs like Integra scrogs with? trying to think about what would work best in my space


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## Xare (Oct 21, 2010)

Boonierat said:


> Where is this Jrosek thread?


I read about his grows over a year ago when I was setting up my first Hempy SOG. Not many people grow this way, so he was a big influence on my setup. 

He is "retired" now. So there is no current journal ongoing. You will have to look into the archives of sites to find his old posts. Which alot of them have had their pictures removed within the last couple of months. 

He posted in a thread called "Size does matter" over at IC and its one place you can still get a peak at how he did things. 

There are also posts on CLC.



notoriousb said:


> do you think the similar results could be obtainable using a smaller sog dwc grow in the small tubs like Integra scrogs with? trying to think about what would work best in my space


 Yea that can work, the hardest part is acquiring the right type and size tubs to totally utilize your flowering light. 

Like in my 4 x 4 floorspace I would want a 3.5 x 3.5 tub

Something that fits and fills up my flowering space.


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## notoriousb (Oct 21, 2010)

thats about the space Im working with. was thinking maybe two tubs if I couldnt find something that would fit that dimension. 

it's just such an interesting technique that goes against what a lot of growers still see as taboo. 
and then they still wonder why they get lower popcorn buds


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## GangstaChronic (Oct 30, 2010)

What's new, Xare?


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## Xare (Oct 30, 2010)

Ive been hard at work making bubble hash out of my trim from this season. And its been a good one 




























































































This is enough hash for me to smoke all day every day for a year or two. 

Also, I plan on finishing off this current batch of Hempys and then shutting down my indoor SOG. 

Obviously I have plenty of "stone" for awhile.


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## littlegrower2004 (Oct 30, 2010)

damn xare that hash looks bomb! once again haha. glad to hear you got plenty of smoke but sad to hear your going to be closing down the SOG. its been a good time watching your grows!


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## notoriousb (Oct 31, 2010)

Mmmm hash 

kinda looks like the cereal grape nuts haha.

well Im staying scribed to this journal so make sure you post the link to your new journal if and when you start a new one.
maybe throw up some dry pics of your outdoor?


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## littlegrower2004 (Nov 7, 2010)

xare- i got a ? about your eyeclops. is your made for the tv? another grower on here bought one and were having a discussion on whether it can be used from tv to computer. i know you have one and get amazing photos just wondering how your getting them in still frames and on the computer.


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## Xare (Nov 7, 2010)

There are two types of microscopes made by that same EyeClops toy company. 

One is called the Bioni-Eye and the other version that I have is the Bioni-Cam

The Eye version plugs into the TV and you view it on that like a monitor. The Cam version is portable and has a USB flash drive that saves the images. You can plug that into your PC to upload the pics.

The Bioni-cam allows you to take digital snapshots and motion video clips.


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## littlegrower2004 (Nov 7, 2010)

thanks for the quick response xare!


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## Xare (Nov 7, 2010)

Here is a Defol update.


Day 45 Before pruning:




















Day 45 After:


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## littlegrower2004 (Nov 7, 2010)

looking real good. think this will be the heaviest harvest youve had?


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## DSB65 (Nov 7, 2010)

Man just reading and looking at your grows has my heart racing..this has been such a inspiration..was going to do a soil sog but may have to rethink it...plus rep...


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## Xare (Nov 7, 2010)

littlegrower2004 said:


> looking real good. think this will be the heaviest harvest youve had?


 I think so because instead of the buds running up and down the stem, the lower budsites are raised up on branches that are closer to the light. 

So they are getting more intense light exposure and they should bulk up more.

The branches fill up the space inbetween each clone.


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## hammer6913 (Nov 19, 2010)

great job xare. plants and hash look the bomb. ill subscribe to thread so i can see more when ur ready yes inspiring.. +rep 4 u


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## OB 1 (Nov 21, 2010)

Awesome, simply awesome. Glad DBS65 gave me the link to this thread. 

You are rocking the hempy method brother - pretty work.

I've just started clipping fans that block light to buds... it looks like you have that method down to a science. I'm subscribed. +reps


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## GangstaChronic (Nov 24, 2010)

Thanks for the update, Xare!


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## OzWeeder (Nov 24, 2010)

thought i was looking at some xmas trees there for a second... maybe it was the red and white from the coke bottles. haha ... anyway bro, the grow is looking magic!!! thanks for the great updates, info and pictures. all the best for the future grow. =)


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## Xare (Nov 24, 2010)

I cut down the Defoliated plants today. 

Using the power trimmer it only took me 30 mins to trim my entire harvest.

Everything is hanging up to dry atm.



Here are Grp shots before final harvest:




















Here is a closer look at one of the lower branch buds:







And a shot of a full clone that shows the branching structure at the end:








Cheers !


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## mosh2metal (Nov 24, 2010)

nice job xare! how old where they at harvest?


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## Xare (Nov 24, 2010)

65 days, usually i take them sooner, but this time i let them go 9 weeks to ripen some more.


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## mosh2metal (Nov 24, 2010)

looks like it did some good too! man they look so white, they must smell good!


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## DSB65 (Nov 24, 2010)

Awesome man ..im going to try copy your grow...but just a few quick questions ill have to start with seed on my first run then have clones for next batch...what would be the best medium to start seeds in...can i run several strains....and what would be the best strains for this....thanks...plus rep....


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## Xare (Nov 24, 2010)

You can start a seed in a peat puck and plant that in a hempy pot to grow a mother. 

But do not use Lucas Formula with a seedling or young plant. When a plant is premature it has different feeding needs. Like higher amounts of nitrogen that a Veg Specific hydro nute can provide. 

Ive grown from seed using lucas but the results slow and deficient until the plant matures. Keeping mothers in veg on lucas is no problem, its just that young premature plants from seed do not like it. 

Id try something like CNS 17 grow till they are two months old. I think a seedling would have a better chance in a hempy pot with the right nutes.

As for strains, a potent indica would branch more fully and give a better yield. The strain I have is a sativa dominant hybrid.


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## Xare (Nov 25, 2010)

The results of my one gallon hempy tester look interesting. 








The main stem is alot thicker all the way up the plant. And the lower branching seems to have better bulk. 

I will weigh it separately from the other two liter hempys when its dry. 

The one gallon hempy grew at the same pace as the rest and did not finish any taller. But it appears to have more girth.


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## IAm5toned (Nov 25, 2010)

jaysus did it snow in there those nugs look frosty


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## fictionalgrower (Nov 25, 2010)

I just read this entire journal from the beginning and I have to say wow. I have started a micro SoG with 16 sites using 32oz containers and soil. I may have to convert to Hempy's too.

+ rep and sub'd


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## Japanfreak (Nov 26, 2010)

Cool thread, I always love the coke bottle hempys.


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## GangstaChronic (Nov 29, 2010)

was this your first attempt at defoliation? pls let us know final weight/yield. thanks.


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## Xare (Nov 29, 2010)

Yep this is my first time trying Defoliation / Stripping of fans and I really like it 


The final dry weight is in.


Its a grand total of 420 Grams haha ! 


That works out to 16.8 grams per SOG clone. And .7 grams per watt !!!

15 Ounces.



Usually when I lolly-pop I get 11-12 ounces. 12-13.5 grams per clone and just over .5 grams per watt. 

So this technique is a nice improvement to my yield. The lower buds that are on the branches developed well and added nicely to the harvest.


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## Xare (Nov 29, 2010)

The Tester One Gallon Hempy came in at 22 grams


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## littlegrower2004 (Nov 30, 2010)

congrats on the final harvest! cant wait to see you do another one when you run out of supply.


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## infinitescrog (Dec 3, 2010)

Xare, after running the test 1 Gal. pot, would you recommend it over a 2 L? It's twice the amount of media, but only 25% better yield. You said it didn't finish any taller, so that's a plus, and would you say the footprint of the 1 Gal. is significantly bigger? (i.e. how many plants do you lose by going with a bigger pot?)


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## Xare (Dec 3, 2010)

The footprint of an individual hempy 1 gal is bigger and the two liters are quite narrow comparatively. But I could still fit 25 one gallon hempys in my 4 x 4 space without any problems. 

I would not have to adjust my drip system or anything. They would totally fill up all the space tho. 

Yes you got that right on , its twice as much media for a small gain in yield, I would need to buy a bigger media mixing tub if I switched to 1 gallon size in the future. Along with buying some one gallon pots and new run-off dishes for them to sit in. Or one big tray that I could catch everything in and empty if needed. 


If optimum yields is your goal its worth dealing with the extra media but two liters will work well as ive shown.


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## fictionalgrower (Dec 4, 2010)

Xare,
This thread is an inspiration to all of my future grows. Amazing job.

As soon as I can I plan to send more rep your way.


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## 420fied (Dec 18, 2010)

Xare,

I'm getting ready to run a 32 plant Hempy run in 1.5 gallon buckets using a 75/25 Perm/Verm mixture under dual 600's on a 4x6 footprint. I'm glad I found your thread and it's been an awesome read. You have documented a lot of great info here and anyone that is thinking of growing Hempy should read it. Also, I love the defoliation on days 21 and 45 of flower. I have read about it but never tried it. I am definitely going to defoliate on this run. Thanks for the great thread.


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## OB 1 (Dec 20, 2010)

420fied said:


> Xare,
> 
> I'm getting ready to run a 32 plant Hempy run in 1.5 gallon buckets using a 75/25 Perm/Verm mixture under dual 600's on a 4x6 footprint. I'm glad I found your thread and it's been an awesome read. You have documented a lot of great info here and anyone that is thinking of growing Hempy should read it. Also, I love the defoliation on days 21 and 45 of flower. I have read about it but never tried it. I am definitely going to defoliate on this run. Thanks for the great thread.


Hey 420fied! Glad to see you posting here, and I agree, this is a great thread. I bet you'll out produce your last scrog with a similar setup. Hope you'll let me know if you put up a journal again... (I was OBXGardener on the old site)

I defoliated on my last vertical grow, and it seemed to work pretty well.


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## 420fied (Dec 20, 2010)

Hi OBX!!!!!Great to see you as well man..... Actually, I have amended the original plan and I'm going to run about 120 in 2 liters like Xare did... I have everything ready, I'm just waiting on my mothers to get to the point where they can give me 100+ clones. I just finished up a run of Aero and decided to try Hempy to maximize my space and yield. I plan on journaling the entire grow so look for it over there.


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## OB 1 (Dec 20, 2010)

420fied said:


> Hi OBX!!!!!Great to see you as well man..... Actually, I have amended the original plan and I'm going to run about 120 in 2 liters like Xare did... I have everything ready, I'm just waiting on my mothers to get to the point where they can give me 100+ clones. I just finished up a run of Aero and decided to try Hempy to maximize my space and yield. I plan on journaling the entire grow so look for it over there.


I'm actually banned from 420mag - check out my journal if you want the whole story, since it brings me down to recount it. Anyway, I hope you'll consider putting it up here. Irishboy is posting here now, and I'm hoping Setting Sun will come over too. Too much negative energy at the old site right now. Things have really changed.


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## 420fied (Dec 20, 2010)

WOW.... I hadn't heard. Sorry to hear that things have changed over there. I haven't been on there much to notice though. It seems PitViper hasn't been on there much either but he and I still talk in PM sometimes. I guess I could journal here too. I will check out the journal to see what went down.


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## 420fied (Dec 20, 2010)

OB...I'm a little lost..... which journal to find out what happened? Link?


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## Japanfreak (Dec 20, 2010)

Pitviper is a wanker


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## OB 1 (Dec 20, 2010)

420fied said:


> OB...I'm a little lost..... which journal to find out what happened? Link?


The journal link is right under my post count.



Japanfreak said:


> Pitviper is a wanker


"Pit Viper" is actually two guys, Jeff and Frank - Jeff was always pretty cool... Frank, well... I guess you have your opinion.


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## 420fied (Dec 21, 2010)

Cool... interesting info. Anyway , I don't want to hijack Xare's thread. I have decided to journal the upcoming grow here since Xare inspired my idea anyway. Peace.


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## Japanfreak (Dec 21, 2010)

OB 1 said:


> Frank, well... I guess you have your opinion.


Frank is probably the guy who claimed that aero-cloners on timers would certainly kill your clones despite the millions that have been made with cloners on timers. I've personally made a few thousand clones with timers.


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## smokachino (Jan 27, 2011)

Great job Xare. Hope to see your future grows on this thread.


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## DankSeducer (Jan 30, 2011)

Nice job!! I've been growing in hempys exclusively for over a year now. I use the blue 1.5 gallon plastic trash can from the dollar store for veg and then go to the 3 gallon black plastic trash can from wally world. I have grown 6' tall Chocolopes in a 3 gallon hempy.


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