# 10 x 15 Stealth Attic Growroom.



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 19, 2009)

Hello, 

PHASE ONE
"UNDER CONSTRUCTION"

*I am a but further along than this. Please check in frequently to stay up to date.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 19, 2009)

Hello, 

PHASE TWO
"UNDER CONSTRUCTION"

*UPDATE:
Growroom Construction project, Featuring.
(6mil) Plastic insulated, vapor barrier.
Sound deadening & much more...

+ to come... DIY: Carbon scrubber, Areoponics, etc....


*I am always a but further along than this. Please check in frequently to stay up to date.


----------



## 1mikej (Nov 19, 2009)

looks good. i would sugest lining the roof and whater walls up there with a radiant barrior instead of white paint or mylar because it will insulate and help your heat signature so the f.l.a.r.e eyes in the sky dont see you glowing like a lighthouse. i bought mine at home depot for 50 bucks a role. 4x25 ft role


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 19, 2009)

If you like what you see, please let me know. If you love it add me as a friend, give me rep, or subscribe to my soon to come grow journal.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 19, 2009)

Good idea Mike. I'm still in the construction phase, and am scraping together every penny extra I can find for the fund. Thanks for the input, price and location.


----------



## wonderblunder (Nov 19, 2009)

Reflectix can be purchased at Home Depot/ Lowes and does a good deal on heat signatures....... I am scribed and plus rep... this should be a good one..... Link to journal? or is it yet to come?


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 19, 2009)

Link is to come... Thanks for the rep!

UPDATE: Grow Journal


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 21, 2009)

I know it's ghetto, and I don't have enough light. I would like to add a mover with 1200 watts on each side. I need some input on venting my lights though. I only have five fans right now. My main air mover is a 6" 435 Valuline Centrifugal. What do you guys think?


----------



## wonderblunder (Nov 21, 2009)

What kind of lights reflectors etc. That would help........... That fan should be good for a few of them......


----------



## D.J.D.W (Nov 21, 2009)

hey man , lookign great , cant wait to folow the grow


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 21, 2009)

....well WB, that's just the thing. I don't have any reflectors yet. The angles I'm working with along the ceiling could accommodate practically any design. I'm thinking of attaching the fan to ducting and running a light rail on each side of the room. How can I accommodate my filter, fan ,lights, exhaust and still bring in out side air. Considering a three light cool tube system on a back and forth mover. 
I do have an accessible gable vent. I sheet rocked over it to contain light, but it could be use to draw fresh air if utilized correctly??? 
*Stoned*


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 21, 2009)

..........


----------



## wonderblunder (Nov 22, 2009)

Would you be hanging the cooltubes vertical on the mover? I think that would be sweet, and have stadium like on either side. I have seen something like this with excellent results. I wish I could give you my 6' mover. In the "Best deals" thread stickied in Grow room setup and design, there is a link for cooltubes for $65 including socket, cord and reflector..... THat fan would def cool 3 tubes. Sounds like your not using 1k HPS? that fan should cool 2 1k HPS no problem. I have veen wondering if which/ if any cooltubes are stackable. Air cooling on a mover can be a bitch. Hence why I retired my mover........

I think I would use and inline booster fan to draw air in.....cheap, and will do the job. Run some ducting with bends in it on the inside if light escaping is an issue from the outside. 

Are you thinking 400s, 600ws, or 1000ws. 

ANother reason I ditched my mover: Light was not very well covering when the mover was on opposite side. I put my 1k in a 4' parabolic and could cover the same area. If it were me and I was determined to use a mover....... I would add some stationary supplementary lighting as well............ THen you should get the most out of the mover, and light concentration. With my mover originally I figured I would end up with very airy buds etc...........


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 22, 2009)

I have 3 x 400 watters for now 2hps & 1MH, but am thinking of going with 2x1000 watt hps on movers for flowering. Do those cool tubes accomidate 1000 watt bulbs?
The stadium style is exactly what I want. I too have seen great results with this design. Also, I want to add a "pipedreams" type areoponics system to the stadium slopes. Any links to a diy system that might be similar? I can't find anything good.
Here are some updated photos. Any input is appreciated!


----------



## wonderblunder (Nov 23, 2009)

yea def hold a 1000w. Ill grab the link and bring it in. I think they are refurbed, but garunteed. that is totally my style. I like your thinking. I would just offset the movers so one light is at one end and the other is at the other......... This is gonna be sweeeeeeett. If it were me(and I wasn't gonna use the 400ws for veg) I would add them in somewhere too after you get everything setup. More light the better. Especailly if your main lights are going to be moving. Never hurts to add some light concentration...... When I was moving my 1000w I considered hanging some bare bulb 400ws off the 1k reflector for more light. Not a bad idea..... 

Are you gonna start with soil or hydro?


----------



## Topo (Nov 23, 2009)

I'll be on top of this one. I am setting up for an attic grow, but *nowhere near* as high tech as you. Do I really need to watch out for heat signature and that "f.l.a.r.e" thing? (Whatever that stands for, I'm skeered.)

Did they take away the subscribe option? I'm either too stoned of can't find it






Edit...never mind, found it and subscribed


----------



## wonderblunder (Nov 23, 2009)

Subscribe function is the "Go Advanced", The police would have to get a warrant to use FLIR tech on your residence. THey won't fly around looking for you. Better be safe than sorry..... I would love to make my room protected from this, but there is just less motivation and funds when it is legal.. I have put enough money it to make my room stealth to the smell, and appearance.........this would be the next step


----------



## 1mikej (Nov 23, 2009)

hi looks great, gave you some rep, is that a attic fan in the top corner? if so you can box that in and use it to cool your lights


----------



## 1mikej (Nov 23, 2009)

hey , i jut looked at you light. that's a giant huge gigantic omg source of heat. get hoods and wire ballast in a remote spot. the money you saved on hoods you will spend on electric trying to cool that room. i don't believe and plant could live closer then 3 feet from that. cool tubes a must i promise you that room already has heat issues in the summer from being an attic never mind 1200 watt heater in it. expect temp around 125f-135f in ten-15 min.


----------



## wonderblunder (Nov 23, 2009)

Im stoked to see it come together, still having a hard time picturing it...


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 25, 2009)

wonderblunder said:


> yea def hold a 1000w. Ill grab the link and bring it in.
> 
> Are you gonna start with soil or hydro?


I've got a few mothers prepping in soil right now. But eventually I'll be going to a DIY areoponics system.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 25, 2009)

Topo said:


> I'll be on top of this one. I am setting up for an attic grow, but *nowhere near* as high tech as you. Do I really need to watch out for heat signature and that "f.l.a.r.e" thing? (Whatever that stands for, I'm skeered.)


Cool, Welcome!
Like WB said they are supposed to have a warrant before F.L.I.R (Forward Looking Infer Red) However, that doesn't mean that they always will. If they have a warrant to look at your house your pretty much already screwed. I wouldn't worry too much about it. I personally think it to be mostly a scare tactic.


----------



## 1mikej (Nov 25, 2009)

home depot sells a 25ft x 4 ft role of radiant barrier for $50. that will mask flir


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 26, 2009)

1mikej said:


> hi looks great, gave you some rep, is that a attic fan in the top corner? if so you can box that in and use it to cool your lights


Naw Mike it's not a fan, just a gable vent on the exterior wall. 
Has to be sound & light proof, Any idea's for using to vent the room? I have a 435 cfm fan...?


----------



## hounddog44 (Nov 26, 2009)

1mikej said:


> home depot sells a 25ft x 4 ft role of radiant barrier for $50. that will mask flir




How reflective is radiant barrier? Anyone know, i have a roll or two, that i could use if its worth it


----------



## wonderblunder (Nov 26, 2009)

The name is reflectix... think about..... If you can't do the time don't do the crime. Just be ready. regardless of all measures. Enough with the guff. You will be fine......


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 26, 2009)

wonderblunder said:


> The name is reflectix... think about..... If you can't do the time don't do the crime. Just be ready. regardless of all measures. You will be fine......


lol... true... Don't let propaganda control you. People are naturally scared of the unknown. The gov't knows that and uses this theory as a scare tacit. It's just another method of control that they've exercised because scare tactics work. (The metaphor: "Plant the seed and watch it grow", comes to mind. WE ALL KNOW ABOUT THAT DON'T WE!?) 
Think about it... DON'T live in fear. That's exactly what "they" want. People who live in fear are unable to act for themselves because of fear unknown. FLIR is real, however in my opinion it is an over used idea within the marijuana community. It seems to be just another one of those propaganda techniques that allows LEA's to have control because it is scary to people. The idea that teams of choppers are constantly flying around looking for heat is ludicrous. That's like looking for a needle in a haystack. Think about how many things produce heat. "They" have more productive things to do. Mobile heli FLIR is extremely expensive most counties can't even afford it. Stationary FLIR is mostly used at the border to find hidden compartments of stowaway people.


----------



## 1mikej (Nov 26, 2009)

yea , get a attic fan from home depot and put it over gable vent and box it air tight. cut a 6in hole in the box so you can attach 6in ducting. use this to cool lights. the fan is about $100 and its about 1200 cfm. i think there is 3 sizes.


----------



## wonderblunder (Nov 26, 2009)

Like that Idea, Have had good luck with similar type fans. Definitely do the trick...


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 29, 2009)

What do you think about an update....? with....??? Video? Sound fair...?


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 29, 2009)

Here's a little bit better look at the growroom. This was my first video, so take it easy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdCnM7pKsNs

Videos are so much easier. I think I'll be doing alot more of them. What do you guys think?


----------



## mrduke (Nov 29, 2009)

how are you going to aragne you plant/ lights with all those trusses in the way? will you be able to walk around in there once you putyour garder? what method will you use also? looks to be an interesting way to seup a room hope itsworth allthe work you put in


----------



## alexonfire (Nov 29, 2009)

Nice Vid man!


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 29, 2009)

Yeah, of course I'll accommodate moving around. I may have to crawl around abit, but I'm not to concerned about it. I'm more than willing to sacrifice. I'll be building a diy aeroponics system soon. similar to the attached picture. You'll see...
I'm going to be using a SCROG to keep plant height under control. Thanks for stopping in. Check back, I'll be updating often.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 29, 2009)

Thanks Alex. +rep for ya!


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 29, 2009)

New Video coming later today...


----------



## Hulk Nugs (Nov 29, 2009)

Lots of room to play with thats always good but yea i can see where its going to be tight in there if you fill the room up just make sure you have some crawl tunnels hahaha  should be fine and fun well when youre not busy and in a rush.

I always like seeing a video but couldnt really understand how youre going to setup the room, isnt there a way of putting captions (notes) in the video letting us know how youre going to set it up. i could wait tell your done but i have no patients

Looking forward to the updates.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 29, 2009)

I know you guys can't see it, but damn it! "I HAVE A DREAM!"


----------



## wonderblunder (Nov 29, 2009)

Looks good. What is the next step? Much easier to understand your space. Like the Aero unit. Eventually I will be doing the same. I like Stinkbuds, units made out of the 5 X 5 PVC Fence Posts. Square would be much easier to deal with


----------



## Hulk Nugs (Nov 29, 2009)

MoN3yb4Gs said:


> I know you guys can't see it, but damn it! "I HAVE A DREAM!"


 
Only way to live, dream, then make the dreams come true!!!!!!!!!! Keep dreaming man, hahaha i mean that in a positive way !!

We will be able to see it soon enough.


----------



## 1mikej (Nov 29, 2009)

just watched video. great song. very nice job, i like the stealth effect. after seeing it i have tons of ideas. custom built planters will maximize your space. i dont know the temps in you zip code but im worried about temps in summer without air cooled lights. 4ft floro tubes would be perfect suppliments to help spead light around without raising temps much.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Nov 29, 2009)

1mikej said:


> just watched video. great song. very nice job, i like the stealth effect.


Thanks!


1mikej said:


> after seeing it i have tons of ideas.


Me too! 


1mikej said:


> custom built planters will maximize your space.


There on the way...!


1mikej said:


> i don't know the temps in you zip code but im worried about temps in summer without air cooled lights.


(98229) NO problem! it's mild year round.


1mikej said:


> 4ft floro tubes would be perfect supplements to help spread light around without raising temps much.


 I got um...!

<3 , but I sure ebjoy a nice beer every once in awhile.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Dec 22, 2009)

Happy Holidays!
How is everyone?
I've made some good progress with my project. It's been interesting to say the least. I'm definitely going to need some pro feedback, once I get this elaborate system up and running. Hydro Pro's are welcome to cirtique, I can use all the feedback I can get. please stick close! I'll have up some good photos in the next day or so. =)


----------



## Airwave (Dec 22, 2009)

Nice.

I grow in the attic and the temps are a pain in the arse to deal with. In the summer I'm battling the heat, and in the winter I'm battling the cold.
Would insulation on the roof help with this or would it simply make it hotter?


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Dec 22, 2009)

I've insulated my room well, and haven't really had any problems as far as cold goes. It does get cold here, It has already snowed... I've got an ac for the summer.


----------



## wonderblunder (Dec 22, 2009)

How many BTUS on the AC. How many watts are you thinking now on the flowering room. Looking forward to see the updates


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Dec 22, 2009)

10,000btu. 
2400 watts.


----------



## wonderblunder (Dec 22, 2009)

Nice. 600w HPS? or 1000ws and a 400w in veg? Im looking forward to it


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Dec 23, 2009)

Eventually this system will house 2400watts in each flower room, but for now 1200 on each side of the stadium. 2x(400) watt hps 1x(400)MH. I'm almost wondering if this is gonna end up being a all 400 watt system... well have to see how the canopy turns. 

Here is a nice diagram showing rational reason behind the stadium w/scrog technique. 





I Thought the attic offered the placement of this type of system considering the natural design and adding vital security. This seems logical to me. However, schlepping materials up the manhole has at times been cumbersome, and I'm not looking forward to moving water in a large quantity. I will be installing a hose to run water eventually.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Dec 24, 2009)

I'm still working on it. Sorry things are taking so long...https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/285607-needed-creative-genius.html


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Dec 24, 2009)

My 100th post!


----------



## wonderblunder (Dec 27, 2009)

good luck. Very stealth shit. Im not sure if that AC will cool all them lights alone. I would air cool those lights.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Dec 27, 2009)

wonderblunder said:


> good luck. Very stealth shit. Im not sure if that AC will cool all them lights alone. I would air cool those lights.


Yeah, I really don't know how that AC is gonna pan. I picked it up off of CL for free this fall. I figure I'll have to put it in somehow this spring, but we'll see what happens with temps in the attic. I made sure to insulate really well, but it does get warm up there.
I was talking to Jigfresh today, and he's got a great DIY tutorial on air cooling lights. I'll be taking a trip to town tomorrow to pick up the materials needed to build his DIY. Props Jig!


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Dec 28, 2009)

Alright RIU....
I could really use some help with this ventilation system. I've managed to work up multiple visual aids to help with creativity. Please feel free to submit ideas. I am feeling very overwhelmed. I would like to draw in fresh air, cool my lights, clean my stinky air, and exhaust. What I had thought of was bringing in fresh air from the gable vent, and exhausting on the opposite side of the room on top of my vaulted ceilings. Here are some pictures to get the idea. Please help me to design a streamline system that takes care of all these needs. I do have my own ideas, I'm just curious if anyone sees any potential beyond what I'm seeing. 
Here's the link to the video...



A couple of diagrams to start.










A couple of pictures..













Those are the outside wall 

This is the inside wall to the house...





The room is divided by the center studs. I've sheet rocked in order to make two rooms. I was thinking of making a horseshoe type wrap with my ducting from the gable vent, to cool my lights,but how can I include my carbon filter, and hopefully exhaust all air up above the vaulted ceilings of the inside wall of the house. 
My first video in this thread shows the opening above the house. My house has vaulted ceilings in most of it. You can kind of see how much space is up there at :55 seconds of the first video, that's where I would like my cleaned/hot air to go, but it is not required. 

I was thinking of running this off of the gable vent to each side of the room to vent lights, and then exhaust on the opposite side of the vent above the vaulted ceiling. But my main questions is how can I work in my carbon filter, so that I can be doing all the work at once, and should I be pushing or pulling this type of system with my fan? Should I just build myself another carbon scrubber to make things easier? 





Let me know your ideas.

+Rep for ideas & solutions


----------



## Hulk Nugs (Dec 28, 2009)

didnt see the diagram/ drawling of the room, 

I am still thinking,


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Dec 28, 2009)

Got two new strains today...
new york city diesel and i have super skunk x trainwreck.


----------



## Hulk Nugs (Dec 28, 2009)

I see three pictures of the attic, walls outside and inside thats it and everything you typed


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Dec 28, 2009)

So you can't see the link to the VIDEO? Hmm... I'll work on it..


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Dec 29, 2009)

Can you guys see the video and diagrams now?

*I got a whole truck load of materials today.... =)
More pictures soon... Gotta get to work...


----------



## MyGTO2007 (Dec 29, 2009)

MoN3yb4Gs said:


> Can you guys see the video and diagrams now?
> 
> *I got a whole truck load of materials today.... =)
> More pictures soon... Gotta get to work...


 no video.......


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Dec 29, 2009)

*I really don't know whats wrong...**

Everything works fine for me.

Here us the direct link.

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps3Y6TkTax8

I'm really curious if you guys can see my diagrams I worked up. Well..? Theres two of them.... paint drawings...


----------



## Hulk Nugs (Dec 29, 2009)

Right on got to see the video, only thing i could say is that you should put some notes or talk telling us whats what and where whats going.

Still can not see the diagram once thats up it might help.

I am guessing your intake is that 4inch pvc then your goign to hook it up to your fan witch is all good.

Your were asking about your outtake and where to put it, are we talking about drilling a new hole anywhere for it or are there some holes already opened to the outside?

Give you credit for doing all this when your still growin plants in the same room.

Do you have a water Line up there ??? Going hydro or other?


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Dec 29, 2009)

MoN3yb4Gs said:


> *I really don't know whats wrong...**
> 
> Everything works fine for me.
> 
> ...


Here are the RIU links to my paint diagrams..
Let me know if these work for ya, if they don't, let me know and I'll post them on an external site like photobucket..

https://www.rollitup.org/members/mon3yb4gs-albums-personal-journal-storage-picture100028-room-side-view.jpg

https://www.rollitup.org/members/mon3yb4gs-albums-personal-journal-storage-picture100027-room-top-view.jpg


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Dec 30, 2009)

...the lull before the storm...


----------



## wonderblunder (Dec 30, 2009)

Diagrams look good. Interested to see how this one comes together. Bet you are ready to get those lights burning


----------



## MyGTO2007 (Dec 30, 2009)

MoN3yb4Gs said:


> Here are the RIU links to my paint diagrams..
> Let me know if these work for ya, if they don't, let me know and I'll post them on an external site like photobucket..
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/members/mon3yb4gs-albums-personal-journal-storage-picture100028-room-side-view.jpg
> ...


that sucks them links take me to a blank page!!


----------



## wonderblunder (Dec 31, 2009)

Looks complicated, and difficult to access and manage. I would tone it down a notch in the begining to get it rolling. Clone/ veg somewhere else?


----------



## Hulk Nugs (Dec 31, 2009)

MyGTO2007 said:


> that sucks them links take me to a blank page!!


 
same here, wish i had the same program. Only thing i can think is wrong.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Dec 31, 2009)

Hulk Nugs said:


> same here, wish i had the same program. Only thing i can think is wrong.


...simply designed in paint...
???

...Wonder can see them....


----------



## MyGTO2007 (Dec 31, 2009)

MoN3yb4Gs said:


> ...simply designed in paint...
> ???
> 
> ...Wonder can see them....


oh well still blank


----------



## wonderblunder (Jan 1, 2010)

Now they are blank and the resolution size is 1 X 1 pixels!


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 4, 2010)

still a work in progress, but now do you see where I'm goin' with this little project... =)


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 4, 2010)

damn...
4:20 came around...
I got stoned...
...and forgot I was getting my phone to pull some pictures off of it....

..haha


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 4, 2010)

MoN3yb4Gs said:


> still a work in progress, but now do you see where I'm goin' with this little project... =)


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 6, 2010)

here we go...
Unavailing my custom, DIY, aeroponics system. I call it "Gutt3R $ymph0ny" 

I've busted my @$$ on this on. Rep is appreciated. Thanks for being patient everyone. The show is to follow. =)

I am really sorry for the shitty quality video, but now you know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6k8U2iUFWA

and Here...

https://www.rollitup.org/members/mon3yb4gs-193609/albums/guttersymphony-10072/


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 6, 2010)

Oh...btw...
This is flower room number two. I'll be finishing room one eventually. My fingertips hurt now from threading all those sprayers.

So...
What do you think?


----------



## streetlegal (Jan 6, 2010)

FANTASTICO!!!!!!!!!!!
nice man


----------



## MyGTO2007 (Jan 6, 2010)

hell yeah.looks awesome can't wait to see some real good pics


----------



## Hulk Nugs (Jan 6, 2010)

Dam you have been busy!!!

Looking really good man, you can tell your taking your time and planning this out.

Video sucks hahaha did you take it on a camera, i tried taking pics and videos on mine and thats how it turned out. thanks for putting that video up anyways gave us a idea kinda of whats going on

Sick that all the pics come up now and the diagram that didnt come up before came up now well i can see it in your album looks like a good idea.

Going to be putting up mylar or something reflective all over the walls right ?? 

Doing a great job man keep the updates, questions, coming looking forward to see the room full of flowers!!!!!!!!!! 




ps not being a dick but no one likes to be told to give rep trust me your work would get the rep, just asking for it, is not the way to go.

cant even give you rep i must spread the love around more


----------



## bryant228 (Jan 6, 2010)

Wow, looking good. Have any plans for unwanted water spills? Keep up the good work.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 6, 2010)

bryant228 said:


> Wow, looking good. Have any plans for unwanted water spills? Keep up the good work.


I've adapted a free pool I got off of craigslist into these flood tables. You can see the material underneath the reservoirs. It seems to work good, although I haven't had any leaks yet.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 6, 2010)

Hulk Nugs said:


> Dam you have been busy!!!
> 
> Looking really good man, you can tell your taking your time and planning this out.
> 
> ...


yeah, I actually took that video with my phone, the sidekick. Shitty, but better than nothing... well... not much... lol







Yeah, glad your able to see it now.

Yes, I'll eventually be enclosing the area around the unit to further encase it, I'll be using the foam board sold at home depot. and I don't know if I'll go with mylar ot just a brilliant white paint. I have some really good behr down in the garage. I might just use that as I've already invested quite the penny. =)


Ah... room full of flowers... can't wait...


----------



## fatman7574 (Jan 6, 2010)

Anything on the end of the spaghetti tubes (sprayer/mister). Why the hydroton? The physical lay out is nice, but I have no idea of what your nutrient delivery system is. Not aero because of the hrdroton, DWC would typically just floodand drain without indicidual tubes. So is it just small pot hydro with excess roots just held within the tubes. Make sure you have at least a 1" in 10 foot pitch as water will pile up behind t root masses pretty quickly. I would add a piece of root matting to the bottom of each tube to lower your chances of root rot. Should do real well as long as you can keep the roots healthy and provide enough CO2 as at the paek of a house I would think the temps are going to be high enough that even with ventilation allow CO2 level will be your limiting factor as far as maximum yield and shortest growing cyles.


----------



## Hulk Nugs (Jan 6, 2010)

MoN3yb4Gs said:


> Yes, I'll eventually be enclosing the area around the unit to further encase it, I'll be using the foam board sold at home depot. and I don't know if I'll go with mylar ot just a brilliant white paint. I have some really good behr down in the garage. I might just use that as I've already invested quite the penny. =)
> 
> 
> Ah... room full of flowers... can't wait...


You have ventilation on top but how is it setup any pics, just curious and where does the fresh air come in ??? 

Just use the paint for now, it will work but dont put any plants up there for almost a week and have the venting fans going. New paint can fuck up a grow same with carpet

after first harvest you should be ablt to save some money up for mylar or panda film

if you buy the foam boards from HD get the ones with the reflective material on them will do two jobs for enclose it and reflect the light


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 6, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> Anything on the end of the spaghetti tubes (sprayer/mister).


I'm using the 360 degree green sprayers. 









fatman7574 said:


> Why the hydroton?


Why not the hydroton.... I could use neoprene. Maybe I eventually will switch to that, as it is cleaner. 



fatman7574 said:


> The physical lay out is nice, but I have no idea of what your nutrient delivery system is. Not aero because of the hrdroton, DWC would typically just floodand drain without indicidual tubes. So is it just small pot hydro with excess roots just held within the tubes.


Technically, I know it's not TAG, however, I do believe this qualifies as an aeroponics system; as the roots are time sprayed and left to live mostly in an 02 rich environment.



fatman7574 said:


> Make sure you have at least a 1" in 10 foot pitch as water will pile up behind t root masses pretty quickly.


Yes, I've designed the unit with one end raised to one and a half inch to accommodate adequate drainage.


fatman7574 said:


> I would add a piece of root matting to the bottom of each tube to lower your chances of root rot.


I was thinking of using some cheesecloth I have around from when I was making mozzarella. Whats your thoughts on that?



fatman7574 said:


> Should do real well as long as you can keep the roots healthy


I'll be using Rhizo, this is supposed to be some of the best shit on the market.









fatman7574 said:


> provide enough CO2 as at the paek of a house I would think the temps are going to be high enough that even with ventilation allow CO2 level will be your limiting factor as far as maximum yield and shortest growing cyles.


I'm still working on the ventaliation, and Co2 designs....


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 6, 2010)

MoN3yb4Gs said:


> ....well WB, that's just the thing. I don't have any reflectors yet. The angles I'm working with along the ceiling could accommodate practically any design. I'm thinking of attaching the fan to ducting and running a light rail on each side of the room. How can I accommodate my filter, fan ,lights, exhaust and still bring in out side air. Considering a three light cool tube system on a back and forth mover.
> I do have an accessible gable vent. I sheet rocked over it to contain light, but it could be use to draw fresh air if utilized correctly???
> *Stoned*


Hey Hulk... This is where I can draw fresh air...


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 6, 2010)

Hulk Nugs said:


> You have ventilation on top but how is it setup any pics, just curious and where does the fresh air come in ???


 I don't have it all figured out yet, but am currently working on it...



Hulk Nugs said:


> Just use the paint for now, it will work but dont put any plants up there for almost a week and have the venting fans going. New paint can fuck up a grow same with carpet
> 
> after first harvest you should be ablt to save some money up for mylar or panda film
> 
> if you buy the foam boards from HD get the ones with the reflective material on them will do two jobs for enclose it and reflect the light


 uh huh, the carpet is hella old, but clean; so, I think I'll be fine. I'll air out the room after painting fo sho. Thanks.

Yea, I like the reflective foam boards for temporary walls. Expensive though.


----------



## fatman7574 (Jan 6, 2010)

Actually plain white styrofoam bead board is cheap and has a reflectance of 86 to 90 percent. It does yellow after a while due to ultra vilolet rays but a coat of flat white acrylic paint restores the reflectance. Most cheese cloth is cotton so it will likely not be usable for more than one crop as it will rot.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 6, 2010)

MoN3yb4Gs said:


> I've got a few mothers prepping in soil right now. But eventually I'll be going to a DIY areoponics system.


.....see 
Preliminary test are finished. This thing kicks @$$


----------



## Hulk Nugs (Jan 6, 2010)

MoN3yb4Gs said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/members/mon3yb4gs-85465-albums-attic-growroom-construction-phase-2-picture860324-sloppymudextwall.jpg[/IMG]
> 
> 
> On top is your fresh air in take right ?? big hole ductape square


 
Question above pics


----------



## wonderblunder (Jan 6, 2010)

MyGTO2007 said:


> hell yeah.looks awesome can't wait to see some real good pics


Things are moving along. I still am having a hard time grasping the pictures and system. Looking forward to watching this one. Glad you decided to document from the ground up.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 6, 2010)

So, what does Earl think?


----------



## wonderblunder (Jan 7, 2010)

So Aeroponic setup? How many plant sites per flower room? Lighting per room? How many gallon res? Looking damn good. Hope you own that house, doesn't look like a very "mobile" setup. What strains have you chosen??


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 7, 2010)

Well.... "Gutter Symphony" has now successfully been running non-stop for five hours, here's our temps without any room ventilation or tank insulation.

ROOM: 79.2






Nutrient Tanks: 72.1


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 7, 2010)

wonderblunder said:


> So Aeroponic setup? How many plant sites per flower room? Lighting per room? How many gallon res? Looking damn good. Hope you own that house, doesn't look like a very "mobile" setup. What strains have you chosen??


Aero, the only way to high. I mean fly.
45 sites per flower room.
1200 for now, eventually 2400.
40 gals.
yes, and it wasn't designed to be mobile.
I'm currently searching high and low for some killer strains. 
I have a few, but have never yielded off of them, so am not sure how they'll do. I've been looking to trade up maybe 2 for one killer. However, I may just have some super. We'll find out...
Stay tuned.
=)


----------



## wonderblunder (Jan 7, 2010)

If you build it, she will come......... keep looking for that killer strain................


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 8, 2010)

Hulk Nugs said:


> Question above pics



Hulk thanks for your thoughts. That picture is of the exterior wall of the house. I could either draw air or exhaust out of that gable vent you can see, although I would prefer to use it as the intake.
I have vaulted ceilings in my home which are on the opposite site of this gable vent. I would like to exhaust out above the living room in the small area that is left between the roof and ceilings of the vaulted trusses. I've included a new pic. Do you have any thoughts on how I can build this system. 
I need it to be all inclusive. It's more complex than I first thought, because of the two room setup.
I would like the ventilation system to draw fresh air, cool lights, exhaust hot room air, and run through my carbon filter to de-stink the air that is exhausted above the area between the ceiling and roof, but it has to do this for both rooms... Here's a paint diagram to give a better idea.


----------



## Hulk Nugs (Jan 8, 2010)

Alright man just trying to help so with that said i hope i am helping 

Getting confused on the top left area, i know it has nothing to do with the ventilation but then agian it kinda does.

question
is the veg/clone area sealed room walls(wood,drywall, the black plastic), seperate from the flower, or are you using one side of the attic for veg and then the other side for flower ?

the veg/clone area is kinda in the middle so is there room on both sides, front, back, left side is by door way and right side is divider wall (agian this is only if your just using a small area in that left room for veg and not the whole room 

There is a door by the veg area so i am guessing theres a real wall around there some where 

Alright just throwing this up seeing what you say and getting a feel of what can be done up there ya dig 


lmao already started this a while ago right after wake and bake and now almost a hour later lmao  i just had to finish and post no matter how crazy it all is 

Ok been trying to find i know they are out there, IF you use the T duc to seperate the air flow you need to use a damper or backdraft preventer.........so it might be easier to just go with two seperate ducings for both rooms 4 ducing tubes total two for veg and two for flower but then you are going to need to Fillters for the outtake air for each room DIY area will save you money

dam man my heads going crazy now    hope i am not confusing the shit out of everyone i seem to ramble some times if you havent noticed 

anyways alright going to take a break and take another rip i will be back, hope you got somthing out of all this and not just a headache 

away


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 8, 2010)

Hulk Nugs said:


> Alright man just trying to help so with that said i hope i am helping
> 
> Getting confused on the top left area, i know it has nothing to do with the ventilation but then agian it kinda does.
> 
> ...


I'm working on this. I'm pulling some video, from my personal archives. You should feel privileged..lol..jk... Although it really is never before seen material. The video is old, but give a really good idea of the space. 

***Enjoy..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD4_4p67YVs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXjDGnHDUlE
***


Also I'm gonna post a shit-ton of the most recent shots of the room in its current stage of development. 










Hold on to your butts...

***Alright... Here's the photos, I tried video but my phone is shitty with the hids on.














































So, That's Veg/flower room one. Which, as you can tell is not finished yet. Now, the divider wall is there in the middle of the two rooms, but not finished yet. I will be putting the dividing door in sometime soon. I hate doing doors, such a pain in the ass.
Alright now, the other side...













































As you can see I've designed it so that there is plenty of room to get in there and walk all the way around the unit. So I have picked up one "Y" ducting piece, but this is all I have so far.


----------



## alexonfire (Jan 8, 2010)

Those light dont look adjustable, which they should be. Also add some reflectors. kinda hard to see video


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 8, 2010)

alexonfire said:


> Those light dont look adjustable, which they should be. Also add some reflectors. kinda hard to see video


 I've updated my last post with some good videos..

There adjustable believe dat. See the MH in the middle, it's on this rigid flexible conduit I found, it's pretty tite I can flex stick it any way I want and it stays. I like it for now.
I had to special order more, as the spot I found it only had one. I rigged up this ghetto setup until I get what I really want. Which will be adjustable air cooled tubes.






I know they "should be" I'm already in for over three and a half G's bro... Easier said than done sometimes. I'm still quite obviously in the middle of working right?
In fact...
now that you bring it up, that's part of what needs to be designed into the ventilation system. Any ideas?


----------



## Jeffdogg (Jan 8, 2010)

Very Nice stadium setup mate.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 8, 2010)

Jeffdogg said:


> Very Nice stadium setup mate.


Thanks JeffDawg, Welcome aboard!


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 8, 2010)

Alright everyone lets hear those ventilation design ideas? Super rep for someone who helps come up with a solution.


----------



## Jeffdogg (Jan 8, 2010)

got a portable ac unit, a couple house fans (the wall mountable ones are nice), some Co2 and forget the in/out vents  closed environment agriculture is the best imo. Ever watch urbangrower?

http://urbangrower.com/
Awesome show


----------



## jigfresh (Jan 8, 2010)

Alright Mon3ybags... you want ventilation help... i got ventilation help... I hope, haha.

What I'm thinking would be easiest with wanting to air cool the lights and have them adjustable is to draw the air from the room itself... so as to not have to hook into an intake.

For the lights themselves I'm picturing 3 cooltubes... all hooked together and fixed to an adjustable arm.

I guess you should put the carbon filter first, before the lights, so the air going outside doesn't smell.

The other plan would be to keep the lights in their own ventilation system... but that would require another exhaust fan for the room... and the lights would need a fresh air intake.

Let me know if that makes sense.... I'll draw pics and stuff so you know what I mean.


----------



## wonderblunder (Jan 8, 2010)

Ventilation....... 
What are the temps like in your area? Summer and Winter? What are the temps in the room without any HIDS? NIght and day?
I would definitely get some large box fans or pedestal based fans and mount them on the ceiling(upside down if pedestal base). Hang box fans on bungie cords to eliminate noise. 

Once you fill in the temps it would be much easier. I would say a portable AC and solid intake and exhaust. I can control 1800ws of HID and 700ws of flourescents with my portable AC down to 60 degrees if I would like. 

I would definitely pick up some air filter to put over the intake. I like the ones that are meant for furnaces and what not. They are square, in various sizes and are about 1" thick. HEPA filters.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 8, 2010)

great thoughts guys, keep them coming. I'm heading to the hardware store... bbl


----------



## fatman7574 (Jan 8, 2010)

Borosilicate Glass for cool tubes. They are sold in 5 foot lengths but they will cut at request to any lengths: http://www.winshipdesigns.com/home/ws3/smartlist_35/oversized_clear_tube.html 
Cool tubes are nice as they lower the heat out put so that you can hang the bulbcloser to the plants. They will usually not remove enough heat to allow for low enough temps for a grow not using CO2. Even wiyh out the lights running you are quite likely to rach ten mpsin the mid to high seventies in an attic (house peak). A window airconditioner can drop the temps down easily and can easily be converted into a remote exhausted air conditioner by using some foam board and ducy ting. It does usually require you use the little cheap induct duct booster fans to make up for the ducting resistance. A window air conditioner usually costs 25% to 35% of the cost of a two hose portable unit. The airconditioner also dehumidifies so the water must be coaught and dumped regularly. Even a small air conditioner 5000 btu running part time can remove a couple gallons of water daily.


----------



## wonderblunder (Jan 9, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> Borosilicate Glass for cool tubes. They are sold in 5 foot lengths but they will cut at request to any lengths: http://www.winshipdesigns.com/home/ws3/smartlist_35/oversized_clear_tube.html
> Cool tubes are nice as they lower the heat out put so that you can hang the bulbcloser to the plants. They will usually not remove enough heat to allow for low enough temps for a grow not using CO2. Even wiyh out the lights running you are quite likely to rach ten mpsin the mid to high seventies in an attic (house peak). A window airconditioner can drop the temps down easily and can easily be converted into a remote exhausted air conditioner by using some foam board and ducy ting. It does usually require you use the little cheap induct duct booster fans to make up for the ducting resistance. A window air conditioner usually costs 25% to 35% of the cost of a two hose portable unit. The airconditioner also dehumidifies so the water must be coaught and dumped regularly. Even a small air conditioner 5000 btu running part time can remove a couple gallons of water daily.


Nice link on the tubes. Been toying with the idea but haven't found anything as nice as those.....


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 9, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> Borosilicate Glass for cool tubes. They are sold in 5 foot lengths but they will cut at request to any lengths: http://www.winshipdesigns.com/home/ws3/smartlist_35/oversized_clear_tube.html
> .


Hell yeah! These look like something to seriously consider, especially considering the geometry of the two rooms. I could easily work these into an adjustable set of hooks on the ceiling and just adjust the whole light fixture as necessary. Eventually I'd like to be on a mover.

I could just have the tubes cut into three pieces of one and a half foot sections. This would give me lots of room to modify them to hold the mogul base properly, and also to be able to attach my flexible ducting to the ends of these tube. This should work out best. I was considering originally considering these http://www.save-on-crafts.com/glcycash10in.html but there really just not long enough.
Thanks for the great suggestion! 

I'll be adding these for sure. So, sounds like the main thing is how to design the ventilation system with these hypothetical cool tube integrated into the network of the cooling system?

The main issue I see is is how to work in the carbon filter into the system. 

Second; Flow of air, and routing of the hvac system. should I go around the two rooms or build a box all the way down the center trusses an route ventilation off of that to the lights?


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 9, 2010)

Jeffdogg said:


> got a portable ac unit, a couple house fans (the wall mountable ones are nice), some Co2 and forget the in/out vents  closed environment agriculture is the best imo. Ever watch urbangrower?
> 
> http://urbangrower.com/
> Awesome show


No but there site looked tite! I unfortunately was unable to watch there quick time videos for now... I probably need the new patch...
Anyway... THANKS, looks good & I'll check it out soon...


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 9, 2010)

jigfresh said:


> What I'm thinking would be easiest with wanting to air cool the lights and have them adjustable is to draw the air from the room itself... so as to not have to hook into an intake.


Interesting...
This could work, Like was done in the seemorebuds video. However, I don't have a 1200-2000cfm fan like they did. I doubt that my 435cfm would be able to kick that much ass. I'm afraid it would end up running non stop and still be a losing battle against crawling temps. Hmm... maybe I could make it 12 hours...??? This is good. A definitely possibility while running Co2.



jigfresh said:


> For the lights themselves I'm picturing 3 cooltubes... all hooked together and fixed to an adjustable arm.


Great thought! That's exactly it. Ridged ducting in the two spaces between the three tubes, and flexible arms that connect back into the "Y's" at the ends of the system.




jigfresh said:


> I guess you should put the carbon filter first, before the lights, so the air going outside doesn't smell.


Yes, very important as I would like to send the hot, stinky air into the short space between the ceiling and the roof of my house. That way the soffit vents can take care of cooling the air once it's outside the room.



jigfresh said:


> The other plan would be to keep the lights in their own ventilation system... but that would require another exhaust fan for the room... and the lights would need a fresh air intake.


So the million dollar question is...
Is there no way to work all these functions into one intake, cooling, odor filtering, and exhaust super system that completes all tasks at once, while only running the one 435 I have? This seemingly would have to be a senario where the fan runs all the time that the lights are on... +125 watts during those hours.




jigfresh said:


> Let me know if that makes sense.... I'll draw pics and stuff so you know what I mean.


Makes perfect sense to me.

What about something like this


----------



## Jeffdogg (Jan 9, 2010)

MoN3yb4Gs said:


> No but there site looked tite! I unfortunately was unable to watch there quick time videos for now... I probably need the new patch...
> Anyway... THANKS, looks good & I'll check it out soon...



Youtube has most of their episodes starting around 15 I think
http://www.youtube.com/user/urbangrower?blend=1&ob=4


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 9, 2010)

Nice! I'll check it out.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 9, 2010)

wonderblunder said:


> Ventilation.......
> What are the temps like in your area? Summer and Winter? What are the temps in the room without any HIDS? NIght and day?
> I would definitely get some large box fans or pedestal based fans and mount them on the ceiling(upside down if pedestal base). Hang box fans on bungie cords to eliminate noise.
> 
> ...


30-55 winter degrees 
55-90 summer degree

Room temps now with no hids, 55-60 pretty consistent. 43 outside right now. 

I've got a bunch of fans already. One centrifugal air circulation 435 cfm. A oscillating stand fan, and a wall mounted fan I just haven't hung yet. 

I do aslo have a 10,000btu window air conditioning unit. 
I would like to avoid using this beast at if all possible as it is very cumbersome, and also a power hungry vampire who sucks off the supple moneystaxx..


----------



## fatman7574 (Jan 9, 2010)

With temps no higher than those I would use CO2 and only worry about temps that rise above about 95 F. Cool tubes and just a small amount of ventilation through a carbon can will probably be adequate during the hottest part of summer if you run your lights at night when it is cooler. 

A CO2 ppm meter is not cheap, but it is almost always cheaper to use CO2 than it is to ventilate or air condition. Plus the CO2 greatly increases your yield. Ventilation and/or air conditioning just brings your yield back up to what it should be at the cooler temperature of mid 70's. So basically CO2 increases your yield twice and does it at a lower daily cost. It brings it back to the ambient air temp level of no CO2 enrichment of mid 70's plus boost it way beyond that. Ventilation at most only allows good growth to 80 degrees F.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 9, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> With temps no higher than those I would use CO2 and only worry about temps that rise above about 95 F. Cool tubes and just a small amount of ventilation through a carbon can will probably be adequate during the hottest part of summer if you run your lights at night when it is cooler.
> 
> A CO2 ppm meter is not cheap, but it is almost always cheaper to use CO2 than it is to ventilate or air condition. Plus the CO2 greatly increases your yield. Ventilation and/or air conditioning just brings your yield back up to what it should be at the cooler temperature of mid 70's. So basically CO2 increases your yield twice and does it at a lower daily cost. It brings it back to the ambient air temp level of no CO2 enrichment of mid 70's plus boost it way beyond that. Ventilation at most only allows good growth to 80 degrees F.


All great info; Thanks Fatman!
I'm mean, I've got to go with the Co2......right? Soo much better yield results.

SOoo.. with that being decided...

We're still gonna be needing some kind of cooling system that doesn't suck all of the Co2 out of the room. That would require a fairly closed system for the lights. wouldn't it? 
This seems to be the dilemma. How can I effectively run the Co2..

ok.. So, because Co2 is heavier than air it falls to the floors, so I'll want to position my carbon filter high in the room. Thus also minimilizing the amout of Co2 being removed from the atmosphere. 

thoughts... anyone...?


----------



## fatman7574 (Jan 10, 2010)

MoN3yb4Gs said:


> All great info; Thanks Fatman!
> I'm mean, I've got to go with the Co2......right? Soo much better yield results.
> 
> SOoo.. with that being decided...
> ...


 Your cool tubes will draw air from out side the room and run it through the tubes. Theyrewill be no odor involved from the coo tubes. The cool tubes will remove about 60% of the heat out out from the lights so only the remaining will need to be dealth with. If you do not insulate between yur palnt room and your dwelling then most of excess heat wll go throgh that adjoining wall and can be removed after it exits the grow rrom. You can amke a b doublw all entry way with two doors. Weatherstrip the inner door draw hot air friom that entry way by not weather stripping around that door. The heat will go through the unisulated wall and be drawn off by a fan in the entry way. No odor involved, no CO2 lost. Insulate everything except the wall and door between the grow room and the outter entry way. The only air exchange is from air drawn around the outter entry door which is suck out by an exhaust fan taking the heat with it (no odor). The only air or CO2 lost from the plant room will be when you open the inner door. A carbon can can be installed on a circulating fan within the grow room for odor reduction. A fan should be on the floor blowing CO2 back up to the grow rooms peak.


----------



## DazedNBlazed (Jan 10, 2010)

Looking fucking awesome man! I'd love to one day get something like that going.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Jan 11, 2010)

DazedNBlazed said:


> Looking fucking awesome man! I'd love to one day get something like that going.


Thanks man!
It's really no sweat man. Just gotta get the right place for yourself!


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Mar 7, 2010)

So, I've been busy, and everything looks great. Just added some Sucanat to my reservoir last night, gotta ensure those Sweet Frosty Nugs! This aero unit is kicking ass and taking names.


----------



## Hulk Nugs (Mar 7, 2010)

sounds like there growing good for you

any pics ?


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Mar 24, 2010)

Sure Hulk, sry I've been slackin' Here's some shots for ya bro.





I'll be working on installing my screens in the back on the wall you can see in this pic for next round so that my buds grow up the wall, and back toward the lights. Hell yes! =)

These buds are as long and just about as big around as 400 watt hps bulbs...


----------



## oldmandroman (Mar 25, 2010)

how did u get your buds that big what size liht did u use and how long did u veg and wat kind of nute


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Mar 25, 2010)

I suppose alot is credited to genetics. But I don't want you to think I didn't earn my keep! =)
I've use a two to one ratio for spectrum; Two 400 watt HPS, and one 400 watt metal halide. 1200 watts total. 
These plants were only vegged one week before being switched to 12/12. They were forced to a vigorous flowering feeding schedule using the CANNA nute line. DON'T FORGET TO FOLIAR FEED YOUR PLANTS!
I'm at about 45 day flower, and their almost ready to come down. Just want you to take note, this is why I chose aero in the first place. SOoo much faster than soil. 
Now, let me clarify. NOT BETTER than soil just MUCH faster.


----------



## Mrcool360 (Mar 25, 2010)

+REP!!! Nice grow man!! Looks like the danky doodle!! check out my grow in my sig......


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Mar 26, 2010)

I've been flushing with r/o water for the last three days. I've also added "the final flush" blueberry. Do you think it's been enough time to flush those salts and nutes out?


----------



## wonderblunder (Mar 26, 2010)

I would say it definitey depends on the feeding schedule in the previous week or so. Were they flushed weekly throughout flower?


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Mar 26, 2010)

They have never been flushed before these several of days, meaning they circulated in the flower nutes constantly while budding. Fed every week to ten days 
though basically when ever I topped off the reservoirs. 
Now they are in 100% pure reverse osmosis water, with the prescribed amount of "the final flush"


----------



## wonderblunder (Mar 26, 2010)

I think it sounds fine to me. I have had some crops that were NEVER flushed at the end, and it was fine. I prefer to let my plants dry out a little before chop. Not sure how you would apply that in hydro....


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Mar 26, 2010)

The only thing I'm really concerned about is bud size, they seem to still be increasing. should I let the amber out a little to see if grow slows?
Q: Does bud stop growing in girth once the trics start degrading buy turning amber?


----------



## fatman7574 (Mar 26, 2010)

I do not flush. IMHO Plants should finish the same green color they have been throughout the growth process. No other colors should appear (no yellow, blue, red, purple light green or yellow) and no loss of any leaves, young or old. Any color but the natural green color is an indication of nutrient deficiency not flushing. If you want to make buds taste great you cure them, you don't deprive them of nutrients and call it flushing. 

Look at any plant tissue sample analysis. The plant matter is chock full of nutrients regardless of any "flushing" you might due. Plants continue to grow not just up until they are harvested but they normally continue to grow and ripen after they are harvested. Some people talk crap about flushed plants producing white ashes and non flushed plants producing black ashes unless plants are grown with organic fertilizers. 

A mineral is a mineral regardless if it comes from a prevoiusly stored source or not. Organic nutrients are just mineral nutrients that were stored by a plant or animal in its tissues. IE it is still just a mineral. Nitrohgen in the air is just a mineral regardless if it is taken in by root nodules and turned into ammonia. It is still just minerals. The macronutrients are present in plant tissue in quantities from 0.2% to 4.0% (on a dry matter weight basis). Flushing does not change this appreciably and what little change it causes decreases potential final potency and yield. 

Micronutrients are present in plant tissue in quantities measured in parts per million, ranging from 5 to 200 ppm, or less than 0.02% dry weight. These are not removed by flushing at all. These levels do not vary much except that organically grown plant tissue actually contains more micro nutrients generally so if any thing that would mean if the nutrients caused the bad tastes then organically grown pot would taste worse then chemically grown pot. So there are just a minute amount of fertilizer salts in pot regardless of the method of growth or whether they are flushed or not. 

Obviously flushing is doing something to alter the taste that does not involve the fertilizer minerals present in the finished product.

Then there is the is curing/ripening which is that time when the plant converts chemicals. By ripening in controlled storage you can "ripen/cure" them to perfection. fast dried pot tastes nasty. Simply grow under full nutrition until harvest. With small plants such as yours harvest by simply cutting off the roots. Hang until in a cool low humidity are with an exhaust fan until they dry enough they will not immediattely mold in sealed in a jar. Cut down to managble pieces (manicure) that can be put in jars or cellophane bags. The resins do not stick to cellophane, they do stick plastic bags. Cellophane can be bought at any large crafts shops cheaper than buying seal a meal bags. Seal bags and jars, open and leave open a few minutes every two or three days for about 15 to20 days and then open once every 7 to 10 days after that and leave open a few minutes untill they reach the flavor you like and until they are dry enough that the stems will snap instead of just bending. 

This method slows the process of drying but greatly improves the taste as the buds use up partially processed chemicals and such. By flushing you are hurrying the process by not only stopping growth but by reversing the process and actually causing needed nutrients (not extra nutrients) to be drawn out of the plants by osmossis. You draw out not just nutrients but about anything/everything else that is water soluble except the calcium. 

Concentrations of salts and chemicals dissolved in water simply cross through the roots membrane until the water contains the same concentration as the plants. That is the idiocy of flushing. Use RO water to suck by osmossis all the vital juices out just so you do not have to cure the bud, but can quick dry it and quickly convert over the crystals over to nasty crap. Not me. It took many weeks to grow, so waiting many weeks to cure is just fine.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/Drying-And-Curing-Marijuana.html

http://www.amsterdammarijuanaseedbank.com/Growguides/general-marijuana-info/drying-curing-marijuana-buds.html

http://www.marijuana-seeds.net/Curing-the-Marijuana-Plant.html


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Mar 26, 2010)

Oh, and for the record... because it will come up during harvest. I only ran this test round at half capacity, which is 25 units occupied.


----------



## fatman7574 (Mar 27, 2010)

So what strain did you grow? They look nice and without a lot of heavy side branching. They look like they would make a nice SOG at 6 to 9 per square foot.


----------



## wonderblunder (Mar 27, 2010)

Nice info Fatman. So when you are saying "organic nutrient" they are carbon based, and follow the chemical(chemistry) definition of "organic"? 

Nutrients can also be broken down via heat as well and released in a highly soluble form, which is very easy to lose with more heat or erosion and what not. 

On your question MoneyBags:
I don't really know. I imagine it varies by genetics, conditions, and grow technique. I would def wait for those trichs to turn to your desired level. I usually start my flush, once they stop responding to feedings and they are just "ready". Each strain, plant, etc, may be a little different. Looking good in there. 
Are those lights for both sides of the setup, or just the one?


----------



## fatman7574 (Mar 27, 2010)

wonderblunder said:


> Nice info Fatman. So when you are saying "organic nutrient" they are carbon based, and follow the chemical(chemistry) definition of "organic"?
> 
> Nutrients can also be broken down via heat as well and released in a highly soluble form, which is very easy to lose with more heat or erosion and what not.
> 
> ...


Yes fertilizer compounds can be broken down and changed into other compounds chiefly by oxidation. Most fertilizer metal salts are pretty much involitable. So if they do not burn at smoldering temps and they are not volitile they are also not the taste culprits. Below shows the simple burning of gas with air (oxygen and nitrogen). The nitrogen is not destroyed it goes through the process unchanged as it does in a joint or bowl.

CH4 + 2O2 + 7.52N2 &#8594; CO2 + 2H2O + 7.52N2 + heat

Another way of looking at flushing etc is to look at nutrient mobility in relation to a deficiency chart. If the nutrient is highly mobile and you "flush" and see a defficiency symptom of one of those highly mobile nutrients appear then your flushing is causing not a "flushing" of an excess of that nutrient but is instead a causing a nutrient deficiency by both removing what the plants could have easily accessed (high mobility) from another part of the plant but also by withholding the nutrient itself. If the sign is that of a defficiency of a poorly mobile nutrient then it is because the "flushing" is withholding a nutrient that the plants needs that is not transferable from another part of the plant, yet alone not being in excess. Only if no signs of any defficiencies appear are you simply flushing "excess" nutrients instead of flushing and withholding still needed nutrients. A plant should neither have to cannibalize itself or be expected to try to finish maturing through the most important period of its budding cycle defficient in nutrients just to save the effort of proper curing the buds after harvest.

*Freely Mobile*
Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Sodium, Chloride, Flouride
*Moderately Mobile*
Magnesium, Sulfur, Molybdenum, Aluminum
*Poorly Mobile*
Iron, Manganese, Copper, Zinc, Calcium, Boron


----------



## Earl (Mar 28, 2010)

MoN3yb4Gs said:


> Sure Hulk, sry I've been slackin' Here's some shots for ya bro.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking good there buddy.

You really must be "moneybags", 
to build a set-up like that.

Hope you get it all rockin n rolling 
like your master plan calls for.

I have harvested without flushing, and then with flushing,
and I will never go back to not flushing.

Get the cure on,
and let us know how it turns out.

.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Mar 30, 2010)

I still haven't figured out this ventilation thing yet. I gave the pawnshop a 20% deposit for couple of decent looking fans the other day. I think they'll make a nice addition to the room environment, we'll see how they work out.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Mar 30, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> So what strain did you grow? They look nice and without a lot of heavy side branching. They look like they would make a nice SOG at 6 to 9 per square foot.


 I managed to get my hands on two different kinds. These were actually a couple of mystery clones. I picked up along the road. What I do know is one is originally from Humboldt co. and the other had #27 or something like that on the tag. 
From what I can tell the Humboldt strain looks to have a more leafy characteristic, with smaller denser nugs. Looks, and smells like fire! The other strain has much larger buds, not as dense, or pungent, but a heavy yielder. The final weigh isn't in yet but both strains look like they'll pull their weight. 
- I did flower one of each of these strains side by side with the aero grow, as to note distinct differences in plant growth. . .

I am planning to do my next grow by SCROG.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Mar 30, 2010)

wonderblunder said:


> Are those lights for both sides of the setup, or just the one?


You can't see as I moved it out of the way, but there is actually another 400 watt MH between the two HPS'.
So, 1200 watts for just that one side; However, I will be doing so upgrading, and remodeling to my room soon. I am Seriously considering bumping it up another 600 watts to an 1800 watt setup per side.... I'm trying to be frugal as possible when it comes to my energy bills, so we'll see what I can dig up...


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Mar 30, 2010)

Earl said:


> Looking good there buddy.
> 
> You really must be "moneybags",
> to build a set-up like that.
> ...


Thanks, I continue working out the bugs!


----------



## mr.smileyface (Mar 30, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> I do not flush. IMHO Plants should finish the same green color they have been throughout the growth process. No other colors should appear (no yellow, blue, red, purple light green or yellow) and no loss of any leaves, young or old. Any color but the natural green color is an indication of nutrient deficiency not flushing. If you want to make buds taste great you cure them, you don't deprive them of nutrients and call it flushing.
> 
> Look at any plant tissue sample analysis. The plant matter is chock full of nutrients regardless of any "flushing" you might due. Plants continue to grow not just up until they are harvested but they normally continue to grow and ripen after they are harvested. Some people talk crap about flushed plants producing white ashes and non flushed plants producing black ashes unless plants are grown with organic fertilizers.
> 
> ...


All this fancy reading.. 
I compared two plants. One that i didnt flush and one that i did. The one i gave plain water did not only smoke better, but also tasted better and the ash was light grey. The one i didnt flush burnt dark grey. ANd futher more I now use a clearing solution and with never go back. 
I can see you getting away by using organics in something like peat or coco. 
Im thinking of using problend pro bloom for the last week before flushing. 
I also now flush after veg and mid/end flowering. 
RO sounds good tho. 
I dont water before a chop. I let it dry up good to build carbs up and easyer removal of the PRO-MIX. SO basicly ten days. 1 with floraclear and one with plain water. The plants use most of the minerals out of the water in the last 4 days before cut down. 
But if you have hard water you will have hard smoke. Calcium=immobile. High sodium content in the medium=no good.
Your bud will burn black if to much nitrogen was left in the plant. Or maybe an excess of P? 
The trick is letting the plant use all available nutrients before chopchop. 
I dont care what the facts are. I know whats best for my plants.


----------



## fatman7574 (Mar 30, 2010)

mr.smileyface said:


> All this fancy reading..
> I compared two plants. One that i didnt flush and one that i did. The one i gave plain water did not only smoke better, but also tasted better and the ash was light grey. The one i didnt flush burnt dark grey. ANd futher more I now use a clearing solution and with never go back.
> I can see you getting away by using organics in something like peat or coco.
> Im thinking of using problend pro bloom for the last week before flushing.
> ...


Actually I think your just crap talking about some old school soil grows and imaginary tests. I assume you are just a dirt farmer. I can't see any other way you can go 10 days without watering. Curing is and always has been the way. Flushing is just an insane short cut for people who just quick dry and smoke without curiing, or who do over dries and half *ss cures.

I think I will just go back to the hydrodroponics/aerosection where people are nots so old school, low tech and imaginative but actually can follow science and chemistry. I have no desire to waste my time on old schoolers especially if they are dirt farmers who actually judge their sucess by the color of their ashes. That's sad and about as myth based a judgment as could possibly be made.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Mar 31, 2010)

mr.smileyface said:


> All this fancy reading..
> I compared two plants. One that i didnt flush and one that i did. The one i gave plain water did not only smoke better, but also tasted better and the ash was light grey. The one i didnt flush burnt dark grey. ANd futher more I now use a clearing solution and with never go back.
> I can see you getting away by using organics in something like peat or coco.
> Im thinking of using problend pro bloom for the last week before flushing.
> ...



... wtf?! I'm talking about flushing in hydroponics man.


----------



## Jeffdogg (Mar 31, 2010)

mr.smileyface said:


> All this fancy reading..
> I compared two plants. One that i didnt flush and one that i did. The one i gave plain water did not only smoke better, but also tasted better and the ash was light grey. The one i didnt flush burnt dark grey. ANd futher more I now use a clearing solution and with never go back.
> I can see you getting away by using organics in something like peat or coco.
> Im thinking of using problend pro bloom for the last week before flushing.
> ...


Sry not trying to jack your thread MB (your plants are looking amazing though excellent job so far my friend, mine dont even look that good be proud ) Anyway the reason bud gets that harsh throat burn is due to the P in the nutes. The owners of Advanced Nutrients did exhaustive tests on what marijuana plants need/use at certain times of growth and they come to find out you do not need much P at all in your nutes please watch this and try to pass it around as much as you can its very informative 

*The Great Phosphorus Myth Exposed!*



Once again Money Bags keep it rockin brotha i'm gonna have a few Q's comming your way


----------



## fatman7574 (Mar 31, 2010)

MoN3yb4Gs said:


> ... wtf?! I'm talking about flushing in hydroponics man.


As am I, but mr.smileyface decided to drag a soil grow into the argument so I replied to his silly reply, even though it constituted scope creep.


----------



## fatman7574 (Mar 31, 2010)

Jeffdogg said:


> Sry not trying to jack your thread MB (your plants are looking amazing though excellent job so far my friend, mine dont even look that good be proud ) Anyway the reason bud gets that harsh throat burn is due to the P in the nutes. The owners of Advanced Nutrients did exhaustive tests on what marijuana plants need/use at certain times of growth and they come to find out you do not need much P at all in your nutes please watch this and try to pass it around as much as you can its very informative
> 
> *The Great Phosphorus Myth Exposed!*
> 
> ...


Your posting should be editted out. It is simply advertising AN absurdities. 

Please do not post links to Fat Mikie videos. Informational links are nice when it is qaulity information. That opretty much excludes anything that comes out of Fta Mikie's mouth.

This one like most others from him is simply ludicrous. Fat Mikie obviously has no working knowledge of nutrient formulations. This video link just once again proves that fact. The ignorant fat man does not even address that phosphorus is what buffers against carbonates released by the roots during high nitroegen uptake. The high phosphorus levels are not there because the plants take up more phosphorus during budding but because the palnts typically dump more carbonate ions during the budding stage. Too low of phosphorous means nutrient lock outs and plant dwarfing.

He, like you, are trying to say that high phosphorus levels in the nutrients are causing throat burn. Wow, how can someone look at many bar charts showing low levels of phosphorus in mj tissue samples even when grown with nutrients containing high levels of phosphorous then turn around and say that the phosphorous not being taken up by the plantss is causing bad taste or black ashes. If the phosphorus is not in th tissues, then it is not being taken up. If it is not taken up and stored in the tissues it can not be causing bad taste of back ashes.


----------



## Hobbes (Mar 31, 2010)

.

Do you guys think Mike's cholesterol is high? We should really get him on a diet: loud, fat aggressive Italian looking guys are a high risk group.

I have no sound on this computer, what's he talking about? Should I throw any supplements out? Big Bud? Fuck it, I'm chucking them all to be safe.

Has anyone else found that the cure is much more important than flushing for smooth vapor/smoke? I feed right up until the end and by the 4th or 5th week of cure the vapor is so smooth. I've read, and noticed, that a lot of swell comes in the last two weeks of the plants life. Perhaps there's enough nutes in the soilless, or in the plant, to carry it through to harvest and still have the buds swell. Thoughts?

And do you folks consider flushing to be watering without nutes or flushing the root ball with 2x-3x the volume of water?

.


----------



## fatman7574 (Mar 31, 2010)

Jeffdogg said:


> Is that why your on a marijuana growing forum and he has millions from the great products he sells? Should change the name to trollman instead of fartman.  He has documents proving his results where are yours? Where is your degree in botany? Please scan and post I would like to see. Your nothing of interest to me and never will. Why dont you try to accomplish something as great as he has/is. Sorry MB for this on your thread I didn't know fartman was such an ignorant twit.


 
Your so funny child. 

I need not show any proof of anything to you child. I have just stated knowm facts that Fat Mikie does not addressed which simply show he and you are quite wrong. If you have no interest in what I write then just put me on your ignore listchild. Just beacuse you choose to put faith in a parasite like Fat Mikie rather than read what I write does not excuse your present behavior i or explain your lust for Fat Milie and his great accomplishments. 

He has documents proving no more that I said, He only has pie charts showing that the level of phosphorus in plant leaf tissues is less than the percentage of nitrogen and potash. Hell he does not evenbother to show the amounts vary greatly depending on wahich tissues are tested, roots, leaves, stems or bud sex glands. He does not even provide documentation showing the samples were done on pot tisues rather than tomatoe plamt tissues. Child, the parasite is a marketer not a scientist child.

The only thing the man has acoomplished is finding a large market ignorant enough to buy his grossly over priced products. He has never made a gtreat product as nothing he has ever sold has ever been better than average amongst mj specific nutrient products. I have been fornulating better nutrient products for over 20 years than he even now sells. Plus it cost about $3 to produce what he sells for $50. I hardly call that a great accomplishment.

What has a degree in bitany got to do with anything child. He is not a botanistnor does he employeee a botanist. Fat Mikie likely has and education no greater than 9th grade. I can gurantee you my library contains many more books, documents/papers on plant nutrient formulation, carbonate chemistry, inorganic and organic chemistry than does his, AN's or his employess libraries.

Do you have a reason to be so over protective of such a parasite as Fat Mikie? You write like he is your Daddy.

Fat Mikie is simply a prinicpal owmer in a company that follishly sells a product advertised as principally formulated for growing mj. He works and lives behind a foreign border to avoid conspiracy laws. I hardly consider that as accomplishing something great. I consider it about equal to being a Mexican drug lord or a Viet Nam draft dodger that hides behing another countries borders to avoid prosecution for being a coward.


----------



## Hobbes (Mar 31, 2010)

.

All I'm saying is that his cholesterol is probably off the charts. I don't want to get in the middle of this argument, I just thought it needed saying.

.


----------



## fatman7574 (Mar 31, 2010)

Hobbes said:


> .
> 
> All I'm saying is that his cholesterol is probably off the charts. I don't want to get in the middle of this argument, I just thought it needed saying.
> 
> .


There is a lot about Mikie that is off the charts. His prices, his Ego, his absurb logic, his deceoption and flat out lies and his continuance of the practice of taking advantage of unkowing mj growers and in steering them wrong with bad advice and skewed information meant to benefit noone but hism and his shareholders (if they even truly exist).


----------



## fatman7574 (Mar 31, 2010)

Hobbes said:


> .
> 
> Do you guys think Mike's cholesterol is high? We should really get him on a diet: loud, fat aggressive Italian looking guys are a high risk group.
> 
> ...


Many people do not consider sex gland swelling when they decide to flush their plants. Quite a mistake.


----------



## UNHALLOWED (Mar 31, 2010)

Well what the fuck does that mean professor?


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Mar 31, 2010)

swelling seedpods.


----------



## mr.smileyface (Mar 31, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> Actually I think your just crap talking about some old school soil grows and imaginary tests. I assume you are just a dirt farmer. I can't see any other way you can go 10 days without watering. Curing is and always has been the way. Flushing is just an insane short cut for people who just quick dry and smoke without curiing, or who do over dries and half *ss cures.
> 
> I think I will just go back to the hydrodroponics/aerosection where people are nots so old school, low tech and imaginative but actually can follow science and chemistry. I have no desire to waste my time on old schoolers especially if they are dirt farmers who actually judge their sucess by the color of their ashes. That's sad and about as myth based a judgment as could possibly be made.


WHats dirt? I was talking about soilLESS. You know.. Passive HYDROPONICS. Your not so smart. 
ANd when im running a drip system on a V garden. That is hydroponics right? When im feeding hydroponics nutes. 
Its not a myth that plants need water before cutting them. ITS COMMON SENSE. No facts need to prove that FLushing water helps how your weed burns and how white the ash is. BUt there is evidence proving that water makes your dope burn better.
I bet your "weed" That you "grow" is nice and crackly. Burns nice and black just the way you like it. 
While i have people screaming for my packs. 
it goes 1.smell 2.looks 3.bud size/shape,4. Taste/how it burns.
SOILLESS is Passive Hydroponics. 
I would do an active system but im not there so often 
Yo fatty. Before you go around talking about this. Why do you try it and learn how to do it. 
I learnt from mistakes. Im on here to learn differnt methods of growing.
Its not science. Its common sense. Now why do you go and get some.


----------



## Cow Tea (Mar 31, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> Nitrohgen in the air is just a mineral regardless if it is taken in by root nodules and turned into ammonia.


Haha nice. I've been growing vegs for a while, so for some time I've known about legumes and their relationship with the bacteria that lives in the nodules and converts N from the air...But this is the first time I've seen this mentioned on an MJ site. I'd give you more rep+ if I could, for having (and preaching) a more holistic education on plant health. We should all try to understand the science behind growing in general, as well as experience, before we fix rules for MJ in our minds based off of internet talk.


----------



## fatman7574 (Apr 1, 2010)

WHats dirt? I was talking about soilLESS. You know.. Passive HYDROPONICS. Your not so smart. Your starting out on the wrong foot puppy. 

ANd when im running a drip system on a V garden. That is hydroponics right? When im feeding hydroponics nutes. 

Actually child it is simply a drip irrigation of a potting soil grow using a soluble fertilizer. That is not hydroponics. Hydroponics is growing in an inert non absorbent media. In reality DWC, bubbleponics nor any grow using an organic or absorbent material is hydroponics. DWC is aquaculture. Bubbleponics is principally aqua culture. Any growth in a absorbent organically based medium is simply a soil grow regardless of the nutrients used or how the are applied. your "victory garden is simply a soil type grow irrigated with drip emitters, not hydroponics.

Its not a myth that plants need water before cutting them. I did not claim a plants need for water was a myth simpleton. ITS COMMON SENSE. Wow you are something child. No facts need to prove that FLushing water helps how your weed burns and how white the ash is. Your entitled to your funny opinions child. BUt there is evidence proving that water makes your dope burn better. What?
I bet your "weed" That you "grow" is nice and crackly. Burns nice and black just the way you like it. I have no idea of what you are even trying to save Child and I really doubt that you do either. Your just jabbering and saying nothing. Everything I grow and cure burns without bitterness, crackling or black ashes. There is no green taste nor bitterness nor bad tastes child.

While i have people screaming for my packs. I still have no idea what you are saying. Is that some new wave street trash lingo child? Most people I know have grams, eights, quarters, ounces, kilos, pounds etc not packs. I have never even heard of a pack of bud. What country are you from child?

it goes 1.smell 2.looks 3.bud size/shape,4. Taste/how it burns. Sounds like a backward part of the world child. Or perhaps your just selling to too many children who have little real knowledge of mj buds. Most people I know judge it 1) Potency 2) Longevity of high 3) price 4) taste 5) moisture content 6) appearance 7) smell. 

SOILLESS is Passive Hydroponics. Pro-mix is not classified as inert. *It is classified as potting soil. IE soil.* Passive. Wow, I can look at 10 different sites and likely get ten different defintions for a passive sytem absed upon waht they sell or promote. Your grow is just a limited mineral based based soil such as dirt but without any humus or partially digested organic matter. Instead you get nearly nutrient free peat moss. So you have nutrient free *rap wihich is highly absorbant that has a high CEC . A high CEC is the last thing you want for a Hydrpo grow so even if you choose to call your grow hydro you chose about the worse medium you could possibly pick for a medium Child. You can flood peat moss dozens of times and still it will contain nutrients. You have the organic matter plus minerals that are treated to make them have specific qualities desired for potting soil. Your potting soil is only inert in that it contains nearly no nutritional value when you bought it. How ever hydroponics is a methodology for non absorbent medias. You pour water soluble nutrients on peat mosss and they rtake up and hold onto huge amounts of nutrients. That is CEC, adsorption amnd holding onto nutrients. Peta moss is specifically not used by knowledgable growers due to its high CEC child. 

Perhaps haps you put way to much faith in the stupid stuff some retailers put up on the web. Try reading from scholarly papers so you are not just listening to garbage info geared around selling products.. All the ingredients in Pro-mix are absorbent. Drip emitters due not make a system hydro, nor does using soluble fertilizers. Hell, Dyna-gro is now saying that they sell a hydro-pi oic fertilizers for soils that are nearly depleted of all nutrients. Does that make growing in that soil with sprayer or drip irrigation with water soluble hydroponics. No it just means using drip irrigation or sprayer and water soluble fertilizer on a nearly depleted soil grow.

I would do an active system but im not there so often 

Wow you invented a new field of growing for simpletons called passive Hydroponics? What ever child. You simply grow mj in pro-mix (peat moss-vermiculite-perlite) a potting mix made for house plants. Are you really so simple brained. That growing method was abandoned by likely 95% of mj in door growers several decades ago. 

Hydroponics is the growing in an inert soilless, organic free non absorbent medium using a water soluble chemical nutrient through a method which applies nutrients in water to the roots surfaces and media *surfaces*. Even growth in vermiculite or perlite is not hydroponics as they are absorbent. Even hydroton and rock wool are questionable due their water retention in pores or between fibers. 

In reality hydroponics is pretty much limited to growing aero or in inert medias sauch as gravel, sand, marbles, plastic pellet, bio balls etc with water soluble, chemical (mineral) fertilizers. The fact that a water soluble fertilizer is used on other medias does not make that method hydroponics.


Yo fatty. Dude I can flame you out with some nasty names if that is what you really wish. 

Before you go around talking about this. Why do you try it and learn how to do it. 

Your a funny child!!!! Dude I grew out of your ancient growing methods over 30 years ago. Why would I again ever want to consider wasting my time and money on an inefficient growing system like an old school peat moss grow.

I learnt from mistakes. Im on here to learn different methods of growing. Well it seems you headed in the wrong direction if you think I am talking trash child.

You definitely are not showing her here to try to learn judging by your recent posts. What you are doing is growing in antiquated methods in a sad mediums. That is not learning that is remaining ignorant and refusing to learn, change and grow better.


Its not science. Its common sense. Actually nearly all advances in nutrient formulations and growing methodologies such as hydro, aero, NTF, HP aero, air atomized aero, even aquaculture bubbleponics, water soluble nutrients, chelates are a result of science. As well as advancement in lighting, CO2 supplementation, the use of supplements. Lots of science their child. Actually about all beyond the basic dirt type growing your doing is due to science child. Oh that is right, you have advanced to a soil replacement medium and advanced to a 1970 stage of using drip irrigation and water soluble fertilizer. That means your only about 40 years in the past child. As far as common sense I tried that method with you also. Your head strong and that is evident by the hilarious things you post and the method you choose to grow pot. Perhaps you should buddy up with dirt farmer Uncle Ben.

Now why do you go and get some. Common sense I have plenty of child. What I am short of is the pate patience need to deal with your ludicrous posts anymore. Your grammar is even worse than mine. How far through school did you make it? 9 th grade, Eight? 

Ba da, ba da Boom child.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Apr 1, 2010)

lmao... nice.


----------



## mr.smileyface (Apr 1, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> WHats dirt? I was talking about soilLESS. You know.. Passive HYDROPONICS. Your not so smart. Your starting out on the wrong foot puppy.
> 
> ANd when im running a drip system on a V garden. That is hydroponics right? When im feeding hydroponics nutes.
> 
> ...


Ok where is your book?? Your are going against facts here fatty. "Passive System rely on capillary action to transfer the nutrient solution from the reservoir to the growing MEDIUM. 
"Hydroponics is the Science of growing plants with-out soil, most often in a soilless mix. IN FACT, many growers are already cultivating hydroponicaly. Cultivating clones in rockwool,PEATmoss, and coco fiber is growing hydroponicaly.
I just use pro-mix because its less maintaining as more forgiving. 
Im not saying im a pro grower. Ive been looking into flood and drain systems and rockwool. 
But im just saying that this is hydroponics that im growing in. You think your so smart. DO you even grow?? You just read up all day. 
ASK ANY grower if flushing makes a differnce on bud quality. You know what carbs are?? Or did you pass the simply points of growing. 
Your making yourself look dumb on this site. All you old guys have developed some sort of pyscosis. Believing your own ideas. lol
"Mineral growing mediums are inert and do not react with living organisms or chemicals to change the integrity of the nutrient solution. Coco coir and peat mosses are also inert"

If i was with the plants 24/7 maybe i could be there to moniter the PH/PPM 
top offs and res changes. But i cant. 
Your facing the facts. Your going against a 20 year old kid. Who is proving you wrong. I have 4 under my belt and im not saying im a pro. 
Hydroponics may seem be the science of growing. But im saying its not rocket science. Its simple science, cause im a simple young man.


----------



## mr.smileyface (Apr 1, 2010)

While i have people screaming for my packs. I still have no idea what you are saying. Is that some new wave street trash lingo child? Most people I know have grams, eights, quarters, ounces, kilos, pounds etc not packs. I have never even heard of a pack of bud. What country are you from child?
*BRITISH COLUMBIA 
do you know what a ten pack is? Its a pack of pounds. Go tend to your tomato garden in your "inert" "active" NFT system that you spent your life savings on. 
*


----------



## fatman7574 (Apr 1, 2010)

mr.smileyface said:


> While i have people screaming for my packs. I still have no idea what you are saying. Is that some new wave street trash lingo child? Most people I know have grams, eights, quarters, ounces, kilos, pounds etc not packs. I have never even heard of a pack of bud. What country are you from child?
> *BRITISH COLUMBIA *
> *do you know what a ten pack is? Its a pack of pounds. Go tend to your tomato garden in your "inert" "active" NFT system that you spent your life savings on. *


Dude your just a waste of net space and I am too tired of your expressed ignorance to deal with you anymore. Your now on my ignore list child. Pack of pounds. Never heard of the expresiion. Never heard of anyone else ever using the expression. Sounds about as good as the rest of the out stuff that has passed from your pie hole.


----------



## wonderblunder (Apr 2, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> Dude your just a waste of net space and I am too tired of your expressed ignorance to deal with you anymore. Your now on my ignore list child. Pack of pounds. Never heard of the expresiion. Never heard of anyone else ever using the expression. Sounds about as good as the rest of the out stuff that has passed from your pie hole.


I completley agree. Got to love the ignore function..... Funny how the kid even came out to say he proved you wrong....

Everything I have read from you Fatman has been solid stuff that makes sense. You have corrected me on several occasions.... Rep


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Apr 2, 2010)

s0, back to business. I got 10 more end caps today, they're what I needed to finish adding the other side of the unit. I be working on it. 
Also, I got some new beans sprouted; just some bagseed, but some damn good bud. I'll be moving them into their new home as soon as I give "gutter symphony" a good cleaning."


----------



## wonderblunder (Apr 3, 2010)

Nice nice, SO you are gonna have both sides filled up this run?


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Apr 3, 2010)

That's right Wonder. Both sides will be full, and divided into two separate rooms. I'm going to add another 600 watts to each side of the unit which will put the total wattage for each side/room at 1800. I'll be working on developing a perpetual harvest from this system. I'll have to see what type of yield I grabbed from the previous grow. It's all curing right now. It looks like a fairly small harvest, but they were very small plants, only vegged one week. I did not know anything of the two strains genetics. Also I did not SCROG them, which was the original plan for this setup... a SOG/SCROG... So, I should be able to easily double my yield. Also a a key factor to remember was that only half of one side was full. Basically this was a trial run to ensure everything would run smoothly, and to check any design flaws before it was too late to modify. Now that I have more confidence in this system I can work on the yield improvements.


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Apr 3, 2010)

New seedlings are in, and growing to be sexed before taking clones. we'll give them about 10 days in gutter symphony and go see how they look.


----------



## mcgyversmoke (Apr 3, 2010)

Subscribed! man those were some sick plants cant wait to see how your next comes out.
and man you got some crazy arguments in your thread haha.
ill be followin peace out man
o and +REP!!!!!


----------



## wonderblunder (Apr 3, 2010)

So you don't live at the grow ROOM? I thought both sides of the gutter symphony was using the same bulbs. Id put 3600ws in between both, and do a mix of horizontal and vertical lighting. Looking forward to more pics!


----------



## typ3ss (Apr 18, 2010)

Hey moneybag, how did you get your PVC post to stay and not roll over?
Also can you post some pictures of your feed line?
Thank You


----------



## MoN3yb4Gs (Apr 26, 2010)

typ3ss said:


> Hey moneybag, how did you get your PVC post to stay and not roll over?
> Also can you post some pictures of your feed line?
> Thank You


I just use giant zip ties from lowes. I was kinda worried about them rolling originally, but their secure...
I've got some pics of the feed line in one of my albums. I don't feel like digging right now... Literally!...-I just prepped some outdoor plots, and I'm fucking tired..


----------



## Ashlee (Dec 19, 2010)

yo yo yo any updates.... you been runnin a full run ???


----------

