# Gibberellic Acid and Hermies



## thepeopleschamp (Oct 9, 2008)

I am using a hydro setup and understand that using gibberellic acid will force my females to become hermies. My question is how much gibberellic aid to apply and where? Do I spray it on the plants and if so what is the mixture and how much and how often. My second question is if have a hermie and it pollinates a pure female will the pure female produce feminshed seeds? Thanks in advance for the advice.


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## MrJDGaF (Oct 9, 2008)

As I understand it Gibberellin increases trichome production, especially when used in conjunction with Jasmonic acid, you might want to check out my thread "New natural pest control" here

The second link I posted and the one from Seamaiden should interest you, would you mind telling where you got it and how much?

I haven't used them myself (yet) but would be very interested in how this works out for you. I hope it's worth every cent 'cos if it costs as much as Jasmonic acid($14-20 per mg) it would need to be!
Don't know if this is any help to you, what type have you got? If that's no use then just Google "Gibberellic acid Cannabis" for more info, it would seem that you use it in a foliar spray.


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## thepeopleschamp (Oct 9, 2008)

Mr. J,

Thanks for the reply. To be honest I haven't even looked for Gibberllic Acid but figured I would find it somewhere if I can get confirmation that someone has used it with success. I went out and read the post and found that the information was useful but didn't really answer my question. The search continues.


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## MrJDGaF (Oct 9, 2008)

Prices

Gibberellic acid FAQ

"36. What Are The Effects Of Applying Gibberellic Acid On Tomato Plants Before Transplanting?

One study 1 concluded that 10 days before transplanting tomatoes should be supplied with 60 PPM of gibberellic acid.

37. What Are The Effects Of Applying Gibberellic Acid On Tomato Plants When Transplanting?

One study 1 concluded that a spray of 50 PPM of gibberellic acid when the tomato plant was transplanted outdoors increased yield by 40%."

Seems you apply once at any or preferably each stage of the plants life starting from seed (it was used to germinate 2000 year old seeds!)

Doseage Calculator

This should answer your second question I think.


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## thepeopleschamp (Oct 10, 2008)

Mr. J

Thanks for the help. I am trying to come up with a method of creating feminized seeds. I don't have the room to make clones and was looking for an alternative to buying feminized seeds. That does answer my second question. Thank you!


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## MrHowardMarks (Oct 10, 2008)

It'd be easiest to make collidial silver, actually ionic silver. All you need is water, some silver and a battery.

Ontariogrower has a thread going testing gibbellic vs collidial and the collidial started to herm after a little more than a week.

This _IS_ how you make feminized seed, but in order to have a good chance of the offspring not having hermie traits, it should be difficult to herm, or resistant to having the herm traits. If your plant herms just from a high pH or other reason, the seeds will most likely carry the herm trait.

Look up ontariogrower, he should be able to help.


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## born2killspam (Oct 10, 2008)

Plant Growth Research & Development | PhytoTechnology Laboratories

You can get a wide variety of hormones, other propagation reagents, and equipment here..


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## M4A1 (Oct 10, 2008)

MrHowardMarks said:


> It'd be easiest to make collidial silver, actually ionic silver. All you need is water, some silver and a battery.
> 
> Ontariogrower has a thread going testing gibbellic vs collidial and the collidial started to herm after a little more than a week.
> 
> ...


I had good luck with CS. Here's the thread MrHowardMarks is talking about. 

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/106392-femizing-help.html

Some good info posted in that thread. I am in the middle of my CS experiment now. I have seeds ready to plant. Plan on doing that in the next couple of weeks. You are right though. You want a plant that resists that hermi trait. You don't want a plant that is easy to turn or you will have a crop full of plants that will turn hermi at the first sign of stress or just turn hermi right of the bat.


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## thepeopleschamp (Oct 10, 2008)

Thank you everyone for your insight. This has been very helpful.


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## thepeopleschamp (Oct 10, 2008)

Great thread. The only thing it doesn't mention is how much water to use. I would think that would be pretty important since the amount of water will determine the weakness or strength of the solution.


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## MrHowardMarks (Oct 10, 2008)

-It's measured by the ppm, with an EC meter.

I was gonna say born2killspam could help out, he found his way here


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## born2killspam (Oct 10, 2008)

I've been hunting for situations posting credible results and concentrations, but they are apparently pretty rare..
From reading abstracts etc on experiments using other plant types, 250-1000 ppm GA seems pretty common to induce self polination on plants that don't readily grow intersex flowers..
ppm is actually different than our version for EC though.. I really don't know how GA would read at various levels EC wise..
1 mole of GA is 346g, 1 mole of water is 18 grams.. We want a molar ratio of 1000:1 - 4000:1.. 1g of GA added to 18mL of water will yield a 346:1 ratio, so 1g/60mL will yield roughy a 1000:1 (1000ppm) and 1g added to 240mL will yield roughly 250ppm.. GA won't store very well in water for any length of time, so 1g batches might be a bit excessive..
Silver thiosulfate procedures I have read typically use concentrations around 500-1000 ppm.. These will form ionic silver in solution just like the electrolysis.. Again though those are not EC based ppm, and I don't know how well they will correlate to EC..
1g of silver in 18mL of water is about a 100:1 ratio, or 10000ppm.. If you're using 180-360mL of dH20, and your silver anode depletes by 1g (and that missing mass isn't accounted for stuck to the cathode) then you should be within that range.. However I doubt ppl on these forums have achieved that since current density is really tough to achieve in dH20, so it may take quite a while to get that much done.. I have heard of considerable amounts of success with home rigs though, so either I'm wrong, or much lower concentrations can work..
I'd love details on a successful rig (ideally with an ammeter in series)
Without a known average current its tough to deduce the expected rate, but info including voltage, electrode material/submerged_size/separation_distance and time could help me get an idea.. Even a description of how many bubbles were coming from the cathode would help..


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## thepeopleschamp (Oct 10, 2008)

This is the article I read and thought it was great. I initially though that he was using a standard cup of water. But then, he mentions using an air stone. If I am not able to measure the PPM and end up with a solution that has a much higher PPM than 1000 do you think it will damage the plant?

So I have doing some research on making feminized seeds and I came across this bit of info. I will not be able to try this for a couple months since I don't grow indoors. Has anyone or someone they know ever attempted to make fem seeds using this method. 
This is some info i found. Someone else wrote this stuff.
Thought it might be some useful info for anyone interested in trying to make those fem seeds.

Im using silver coins, but you can essentially use any form of silver including silver wire as long as its 999 or 9999 pure (i bought mine from my local Mint, but you easily get silver off ebay too.

Also, you dont _need_ to solder alligator clips on, the important thing is simply that the wires are touching the silver so the electric current can flow through them, but i think the alligator clips add a nice touch plus they make it easier to hold the silver, so if you've got some spare alligator clips and have a soldering iron then I recommend it!



have reported excellent success with this method, and it's no secret that colloidal silver has been used for a long time now to 'reverse' the sex of cannabis plants, although thanks to their help hopefully the process of making our own CS will no longer be shrouded in mystery!

*What is Colloidal Silver?*
Colloidal Silver is pure, metallic silver (the element), in particles of 15 atoms or fewer, each with a positive electric charge and attached to a molecule of a simple protein. These electrically charged particles of silver are extremely small, usually ranging from about 0.001 to about 0.01 microns in diameter, and are suspended in deionized water. The force of the electric charge is stronger than the force of gravity, so the silver particles remain suspended.

*In a nutshell how is Colloidal Silver made?*
You simply pass a small electric current through distilled water using a pure silver electrode (im using coins). That is essentially all there is to it. Contrary to popular belief, distilled water will conduct a small amount of electricity, allowing production of micro particulate colloidal silver. 

*What the hell does it have to do with cannabis?!?*
We use Colloidal Silver (CS) for making *FEMINISED SEEDS*, which I'm a big fan of after having nothing but great success from them since i started growing a few years ago





(The basic idea being you regularly spray CS on a female to force it to create bananas ie. pollen ... you then use that pollen to fertilize another female (or even itself, ie "selfing"), and the resulting seeds are feminised due to the pollen coming from a female instead of a male)

Also, there are some other substances that can be used to force male parts on female plants, including STS (silver theosulphate, which is silver nitrate + sodium theosulphate) and GA (giberillic acid), but CS is non-toxic, easy, safe and inexpensive to make at home, doesn't require a DEA request form, and isn't a controlled substance.






Csilver is available from your local chemist (in low parts-per-million though), and is drank for good health (the silver helps kill bacteria etc). But its PPM is too low for what we intend to use it for - feminised seeds! So we need to make our own with a higher PPM ... no problems, we simply allow the electrical current to flow through the silver for a longer duration






*TO MAKE A COLLOIDAL SILVER GENERATOR* ...
You will need: a 9V power adapter that outputs DC, two alligator clips, a soldering iron + solder. (If you dont have soldering iron you can simply wrap the wire around the alligator clip base in a coil and that will suffice, but youll get better contact if you solder it).
- Get a power adapter that has an output of 9V DC 600mA or thereabouts. Output must be DC, and 9V/600mA seems optimal from what I've read and been told
- Cut the end off and discard
- Split the main wire into its two smaller sub-wires (no need to pull them apart all the way though). Dont worry, we dont need to know which is positive/negative.
- Use wire-cutters to remove the plastic shielding/insulation to expose the actual metal wires, about 1 inch is enough
- Solder the wires onto alligator clips ($0.50ea from your local electronics store)

If you dont have alligator clips Haps suggested a good alternative - drill a hole into each coin and coil the wire around that instead.

*TO MAKE COLLOIDAL SILVER* ...
- Get some distilled water. Do not use any other type of water due to impurities. At your supermarket you may find distilled water next to spring water, but it may also be in the ironing products isle as it is commonly used for steam irons.
- Attach each alligator clip to a chunk of PURE 999 or 9999 SILVER (i just got two 1oz coins from the local Mint, approx US$20ea, but 1/2oz coins wouldve been suffice - i didnt realise how big 1oz of silver was!)
- Make sure each coin is half-dunked in the water, but that the alligator clips themselves arent touching the water, then turn on your generator and leave it for about 7 hours. (goldking leaves his on "overnight" and thus probably gets an even higher PPM, but has had good results from it!)
The end result: the electrolysis causes microscopic silver particles to be suspended in the water (= colloidal silver aka CS). The rig basically looks like this when in use (the only thing in contact with the water is the silver, not the alligator clips or anything else):






It's also recommended you use an airpump with a clean (not used for anything else) airstone to help keep the water moving.

Also you don't want to leave the CS generator running TOO long or the silver particles in the water start getting too large - ~8 hours should be plenty.

*USING COLLOIDAL SILVER TO MAKE FEMINISED SEEDS* ...
Start spraying your target plant with CS just before you send it into 12/12 flowering, and keep spraying every few days. I won't go into details, but the CS causes the female to produce male flowers/pollen. Collect that pollen, and use it to pollenate another female (you _can_ pollenate the same female that you CS'd (aka "self'ing") and indeed you may have to if you have a clone-only strain, although that may lead to more hermaphroditic traits, but I wont go into details on that). Anyway, because you've pollenated a plant with pollen from a female, the pollen can only create female seeds. 

There's obviously a lot more to it than that but hopefully this brief explanation will help people understand the basic jist of it






ps. *I don't recommend drinking home-made CS* unless you've done your homework because the PPM may be too high, which is great for making feminised seeds (we need a higher PPM for that) but may have risks with human consumption - too much silver can cause argyria, a condition of blue or gray discoloration of the skin, so always buy it from your chemist if you intend to use it medicinally. Also if you do drink it medicinally it's recommended you also take additional probiotics (like Yakult), because the silver also kills a lot of the good bacteria inside you. So do your homework first!

don't know what the RULES are for misting the plants,but i soak the heck out of mine when i spray,every day, not just a lil damp mist,thats why if i had to pay $20+ for a lil bottle at the health store, i could never afford to use CS.

i touch my ingots together to look for a miniscule spark arch to see if every thing has positive contact and is working. the spark, if there will be very very faint, kinda like rubbing a cat on the wall, the sparks are hard to see


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## thepeopleschamp (Oct 10, 2008)

This is a great video. Good for plants not so great for people.
Meet a real-life ?Blue Man? - TODAY: People - MSNBC.com


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## born2killspam (Oct 10, 2008)

Colloidal silver and Ionic silver in solution are 2 different things, and your article seems to meld them together in a 50/50 split.. 
You should really only need silver on the anode (positive side) the cathode merely supplies electrons.. All metal ions in electrolysis are positively charged, and are liberated from the anode.. It is pretty important that only Ag be submerged at the anode..
Also, if ppl are unsure about the polarity, twice as many bubbles will be formed at the cathode (negative side).. you can just pop the wires in some water to test that.. 
The protien binding is new to me, but colloidal silver is charge neutral elemental silver, while ionic silver is Ag+(aq).. I wouldn't reccomend drinking ionic silver either.. unlike elemental silver, it will react with the HCl in your stomach and precipitate as silver chloride..


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## M4A1 (Oct 10, 2008)

thepeopleschamp said:


> This is the article I read and thought it was great. I initially though that he was using a standard cup of water. But then, he mentions using an air stone. If I am not able to measure the PPM and end up with a solution that has a much higher PPM than 1000 do you think it will damage the plant?


I was unable to read my PPM either. I ran my CS maker for about 8 hours I beleive. The water when done has a greyish tint to it. I sprayed 3 or 4 times a day till it turned hermi. After I started sparying it, any new growth was mutated. Meaning the leaves just didn't look right. All twisted and ugly looking. The whole plant turned grey too. Once it started growing pollin sacks it grew them for a couple of weeks with no calyx growth at all. As of last week it has stopped growing pollin sacks and started growing calyxs again. Like it is resisting being a hermi. I thought for sure it would continue to grow pollin sacks. It did slow groth down too. The clone was maybe 6 inchs tall when I started this. It's about 8 or 9 inchs tall now, if that. I plan on killing it soon sence I don't think I will get any more pollin from it. The bud on it I would be affaird to smoke so I will be getting rid of the whole thing. I just wanted pollin from this thats why I used a small clone for it. There is seeds on it that I may harvest and try a couple of them. But I will be sure not to mix them up with the other ones I have. 


As far as drinking this stuff I wouldn't do it. It is a high PPM and who knows what it would do to you. You might turn grey like that one guy did. Seem him on TV once. He still drinks the shit too.


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## thepeopleschamp (Oct 12, 2008)

M4,

How many days did you spray your plants before they turned hermi. How did you store the pollen? Thanks!


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## wtf l0L (Oct 12, 2008)

you could try a nutural way by stressing the plant with light making it rootbound and pruning it roughly, ive done this to make feminized skunk seeds but you really have to put it through hell hehe.


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## M4A1 (Oct 12, 2008)

thepeopleschamp said:


> M4,
> 
> How many days did you spray your plants before they turned hermi. How did you store the pollen? Thanks!


I am looking at my notes now. I was sparying 3 or 4 times a day. I started sparying on 8/8/08. I then continued to spray till I seen pollin sacks. The last day I sprayed was 8/30/08. The next day I had pollin sacks growing. So it takes a couple of weeks of doing this to get it to turn. The plant looks like it got the shit beat out of it. So be prepaired for that cause it's gets ugly.

As far as storing pollin. I have it in a glass jar with the lid on. I have it storing in a dry, cool, dark place. I just used some of it yesturday and it seems to have taken. The pistils are turning brown that I put it on.


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## thepeopleschamp (Oct 12, 2008)

M4A1 said:


> I am looking at my notes now. I was sparying 3 or 4 times a day. I started sparying on 8/8/08. I then continued to spray till I seen pollin sacks. The last day I sprayed was 8/30/08. The next day I had pollin sacks growing. So it takes a couple of weeks of doing this to get it to turn. The plant looks like it got the shit beat out of it. So be prepaired for that cause it's gets ugly.
> 
> As far as storing pollin. I have it in a glass jar with the lid on. I have it storing in a dry, cool, dark place. I just used some of it yesturday and it seems to have taken. The pistils are turning brown that I put it on.


Great! Thanks for the information.


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## ontariogrower (Oct 13, 2008)

hey I felt my ears burning so any ways Im using the 1000to 1 for the gib acid but have not sprayed yet dam busyness 

just make sure you use good alocohol to desolve it

and to spray it I just use my hand pull a branch down and guard the rest of the plant spray light mist then WASH your hands


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## MediMaryUser (Oct 19, 2008)

thepeopleschamp said:


> Mr. J
> 
> Thanks for the help. I am trying to come up with a method of creating feminized seeds. I don't have the room to make clones and was looking for an alternative to buying feminized seeds. That does answer my second question. Thank you!


Im in the same boat.


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## MediMaryUser (Oct 22, 2008)

MediMaryUser said:


> Im in the same boat.


will this work?
Gibberellic Acid Plant Growth Stimulator - MegaGro Dramatically Improves Vegetable Gardening, Lawn Care, Flower Gardening and Plant Care - MegaGro

or do i need stronger ga3 then mix it with water Gold BioTechnology - Gibberellic Acid 3 1 g

what does the peoples champ do ?


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## MacEzy (Oct 23, 2008)

hermies only produce more hermies, there usless.


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 23, 2008)

MacEzy said:


> hermies only produce more hermies, there usless.



Not exactly true. But let me start off with how do they make fem seeds?

A self-pollinated hermie will more then likely generate hermie dominate seeds.

Now if you pollinate Plant A with the pollen from Plant B ( a hermie) you get a more stable fem seed.

Also for Plant A, Soma does light poisoning and if the plant doesn't become hemie, its a strong female and a good candidate to get pregnant.


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## born2killspam (Oct 23, 2008)

There will still be a larger ratio of herms/mutants with any XX polinated seed batch, than with old-school breeding using decent genetics, but 2 females is better..
And since proper method can yield over 99% stamina free plants, I don't think 'useless' is the correct term..


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## thepeopleschamp (Oct 26, 2008)

MediMaryUser said:


> will this work?
> Gibberellic Acid Plant Growth Stimulator - MegaGro Dramatically Improves Vegetable Gardening, Lawn Care, Flower Gardening and Plant Care - MegaGro
> 
> or do i need stronger ga3 then mix it with water Gold BioTechnology - Gibberellic Acid 3 1 g
> ...


unfortunatley I haven't had a chance to try anything yet. I am trying a few different methods to see what works best. I will try the following methods.

a. Using ethylene gas from rotting apples in air tight container for a two week period with seeds.

b. Use tylenol to hydroponically fertilize male plants. The theory is that the pollen will only produce female seeds.

c. Use colloidial silver to force female plants to hermi.

I don't plan on changing PH, Nutes, lights as I believe that any stress will make a plant hermi and it doesn't particular matter of the method used. I will be using colloidial silver to force stress on the plant and make it hermi. No particular reason other than I think it would be cool to make.
Not sure what else I am going to try as these methods will take a good amount of time to perform them. I plan on posting the results as I get them. My goal is to put up some factual information based on my experiences.


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## thepeopleschamp (Oct 27, 2008)

and D. Let a female plant grow a couple weeks after harvest to see if it will turn hermi automatically. Then collect the pollen pods and apply to female of next grow.


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## BigBudBalls (Oct 27, 2008)

thepeopleschamp said:


> and D. Let a female plant grow a couple weeks after harvest to see if it will turn hermi automatically. Then collect the pollen pods and apply to female of next grow.


Just store it well. Pollen in nature doesn't last but several days. In the fridge it lasts a lot longer. (cutting it with baking flower makes it go further if ya need that)


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## M4A1 (Oct 28, 2008)

I'd say it last longer then several days. I have pollin just sitting out now at room temp that was collected about 2 month ago. I used it the other day and it seems to have taken with no problems. I am not sure how long it last, but more then several days. I have been told that after you have a male or hermi in an area to make sure to wash that area good before your next crop cause pollin that is in that area can pollinate your next crop. How true that is I don't know. I have pollin sitting in a jar at room temp and I also have pollin stored in the frig just incase it does go bad sitting out, but it seems to be ok so far. I would say the reson it goes bad in nature is because it would get wet from landing on the ground or anywhere else it gets on. I would say as long as you keep it dry it will last awhile at room temp(what I found from my experience anyways), but I am still keeping some in the frig just incase sence I am going to use some on the next batch of seedlings so I can back cross. I did keep the parents alive by cloning just incase. I am sure it does start to go bad after along period, but I don'
t know how long that period is. Thats one reason I did leave some out at room temp. Wanna see how long it last. Probably be atleast a month and a half before I use it again if not longer.


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