# Super Topping?



## DTray (Mar 2, 2011)

Not sure what to call it, not sure if someone has done it before. I stumbled upon it on accident, i let a few clones get massive in some 16oz party cups got about 14 inches tall straight up verticle, light was kinda far awawy. well the side branches wernt much so i decided to cut the top 6 inches off and re clone the few like that i was not going to flower

well instead of throwing out the newly topped plants i left only the bottom four - six branches and tie them down and the plant started to grow awesome. here is a few pics of a Shrom plant still in veg and nodes GALORE. i also have another shrom and blue haze in flower that is the same ill get pics later when the lights turn on. 

the shrom and blue haze in flower have bud galore, looks way more than the untopped shrom 

I topped way more than a 3rd off this plant and it did not hesitate to spring back to life. 

has anyone ever done this before? and also they tend to not get so bushy if you are limited on space and grow more verticle


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## kings**t (Mar 2, 2011)

not sure if that is what it is called (super topping) but this is what i am doing i top till there is an even canopy! works well for me. btw i would top the two longer tops and let it all go even!


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## DTray (Mar 2, 2011)

i might give that a shot, i am trying to keep them as skinny as possible. i have four square feet and fit four plants in 5 gallon pots in there perfect, im trying to get four main colas and not let the bushy-ness take over as it drowns out the light quick in that little area.


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## WillyPhister (Mar 2, 2011)

I think these plants are an interesting experiment, they're not mine. almost kinda similar to what you have going on.
View attachment 1472188View attachment 1472201View attachment 1472202


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## smokebros (Mar 2, 2011)

supercropping. http://www.420magazine.com/forums/frequently-asked-questions/70032-supercropping-tutorial.html


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## Shwagbag (Mar 2, 2011)

Oops, I missed this thread. I posted a couple pics. Willy that's a sweet helicopter lol. Should be sweet as hell down the road! Cheers.

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/413359-supercropping-canopy-control.html


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## DTray (Mar 3, 2011)

Thanks guys., ill get some picsup of the flowering girls when i get home tonight


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## Shwagbag (Mar 3, 2011)

DTray said:


> Not sure what to call it, not sure if someone has done it before. I stumbled upon it on accident, i let a few clones get massive in some 16oz party cups got about 14 inches tall straight up verticle, light was kinda far awawy. well the side branches wernt much so i decided to cut the top 6 inches off and re clone the few like that i was not going to flower
> 
> well instead of throwing out the newly topped plants i left only the bottom four - six branches and tie them down and the plant started to grow awesome. here is a few pics of a Shrom plant still in veg and nodes GALORE. i also have another shrom and blue haze in flower that is the same ill get pics later when the lights turn on.
> 
> ...


IMO one bushy plant is better than 2 vertical plants, even if you have to shorten your veg. An even canopy with multiple tips will produce a better quality yield. You could easily get 15 smaller tips from a plant of the same approximate square footage as opposed to those two monsters. Short and bushy is my preference with lots of tips. The more vertical you grow, the lower the light intensity to the lower nodes is delivered, which is going to result in less quality yield compared to the upper canopy. This is all assuming that you are using a horizontal bulb fixture, vertical would be a different story 

That plant looks healthy! You're going to have a couple monsters on your hands there, or as like to call them, kOng3rz.


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## DTray (Mar 3, 2011)

Shwagbag said:


> IMO one bushy plant is better than 2 vertical plants, even if you have to shorten your veg. An even canopy with multiple tips will produce a better quality yield. You could easily get 15 smaller tips from a plant of the same approximate square footage as opposed to those two monsters. Short and bushy is my preference with lots of tips. The more vertical you grow, the lower the light intensity to the lower nodes is delivered, which is going to result in less quality yield compared to the upper canopy. This is all assuming that you are using a horizontal bulb fixture, vertical would be a different story
> 
> That plant looks healthy! You're going to have a couple monsters on your hands there, or as like to call them, kOng3rz.


ill take your word on that, since it does make sense and you have been growing longer than i have. so ill start to do that. thanks


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## Shwagbag (Mar 3, 2011)

No right or wrong we all speak dank  Give it a shot and see what works best for you. Sub'd and watching for those kOng3rz to get smoked! Looking good DTray.


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## Growingforpeace (Aug 20, 2013)

Is this mainlining.?


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## Shwagbag (Aug 20, 2013)

Growingforpeace said:


> Is this mainlining.?


No this is not mainlining. Search for mainlining and you will find what you seek!


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## thepaintedchef (Aug 20, 2013)

It's like an intro to mainlining. Mainlining is more in-depth with the topping and training.


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## SxIstew (Aug 24, 2013)

smokebros said:


> supercropping. http://www.420magazine.com/forums/frequently-asked-questions/70032-supercropping-tutorial.html



Super cropping while only using tops for clones. 30+ tops currently.


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## greenberg138 (Aug 24, 2013)

this is what I do every time. If one has the time to veg for a month or two. the strain I have right now I veg for about 45 days. the first 3 weeks I let it grow and then I chop about in half leaving 5 or 6 branches from the bottom. this way the lower part is thick and healthy supplying nutrition to the branches on the bottom. I use to be hesitate to cut that much off but it dosent hurt and you ALLWAYS top down in veg, and prune up during flowering. most strains love to be topped down.


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## GreenBuds (Aug 24, 2013)

I believed I top once or twice and listed this Jack the Ripper a few years ago and got over 6 oz's of her. It's a great way to increase your yield but your veg time becomes longer. If you're growing a indica dom it could take you more than 2 months before it had some height. Sativa dom strains in my opinion like to be topped better than indica/hybrid strains. Some strains don't like to be topped at all.


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## Shwagbag (Aug 25, 2013)

I'm confused where this thread started and where its going. Super cropping and topping are completely different techniques. That said, they do work well together to control height and increase light penetration with indoor growing. They're also very useful outdoors to promote quality yields and provide an even canopy. Check out the super cropping and canopy control link in my signature if you're interested in super cropping. There are some members that have shared some very good results to date within the thread. 

Keep it green!


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## JonnyAppleSeed420 (Aug 31, 2013)

The key to any of these techniques is control not how many tops you have, its the position the tops are in before going into flower. Genetics of the plant will kick in, so basically your yield is restricted no matter what you do to the girls or how well you grow. Genetics is about 90% of your finished product. I wouldn't worry about how many times you top but make sure you have an even canopy and are in the grow zone of the bulb you are using. Stress can be a good thing on some strains.


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## Shwagbag (Sep 2, 2013)

JonnyAppleSeed420 said:


> The key to any of these techniques is control not how many tops you have, its the position the tops are in before going into flower. Genetics of the plant will kick in, so basically your yield is restricted no matter what you do to the girls or how well you grow. Genetics is about 90% of your finished product. I wouldn't worry about how many times you top but make sure you have an even canopy and are in the grow zone of the bulb you are using. Stress can be a good thing on some strains.


Genetics are very important, I agree. But cropping and topping can definitely help to maximize quality and yields "in the grow zone of the bulb you are using" with the specific strain the grower has selected, like you said. The grow zone for a bulb is not very large for maximum efficiency, i.e. inside of 15" for a 600, which is why these methods are so useful for indoor growers. Controlling how many tops the plant produces can reduce stretch on dominant branches when desired. By topping dominant branches and utilizing plant training techniques, yield, quality, stretching and trimming times can be improved. Its not just "yield" most dedicated indoor growers are looking to improve, rather yield of quality top flowers as opposed to less potent and dense flowers which are produced outside of the bulb's grow zone. Obviously the bulb's grow zone is determined by the growers dedication to providing an optimal environment for plant growth with ducting, cooling and air movement. 

AK47 Supercropped and topped to promote several dominant colas with equal light penetration and production.


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## JonnyAppleSeed420 (Sep 2, 2013)

Shwagbag said:


> Its not just "yield" most dedicated indoor growers are looking to improve, rather yield of quality top flowers as opposed to less potent and dense flowers which are produced outside of the bulb's grow zone. Obviously the bulb's grow zone is determined by the growers dedication to providing an optimal environment for plant growth with ducting, cooling and air movement.


 I agree with most of your statement but you need to check your 600's under a light meter, 15 inches for a 600...no. Plants lowest flowers are being 30" below the light will still get high intensity. Can you explain how "less potent and dense flower" comes from lower intense light? 





Shwagbag said:


> AK47 Supercropped and topped to promote several dominant colas with equal light penetration and production.


 Nice girl! What was the dry weight? Looking at her though I wonder what AK is supposed to yield, I would think she still has a ways to go for her full potential.


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## Shwagbag (Sep 2, 2013)

JonnyAppleSeed420 said:


> I agree with most of your statement but you need to check your 600's under a light meter, 15 inches for a 600...no. Plants lowest flowers are being 30" below the light will still get high intensity. Can you explain how "less potent and dense flower" comes from lower intense light?
> 
> 
> Nice girl! What was the dry weight? Looking at her though I wonder what AK is supposed to yield, I would think she still has a ways to go for her full potential.


Thanks for the compliments! AK is a heavy yielder and she never lets me down. I don't recall the yield on this one specifically, but I typically pull about 5-6 zips in a 7 gallon soil container with 3-4 other plants under a 600w light (perpetual in accordance with state medical laws). I could pull off 1.5-2 lbs from a 600w in a 4 x 4 tent of AK47 either separately or a single container scrog. I'm not bragging, just trying to illustrate. Many could do much better I'm sure!

The basis for my 15" benchmark from plant tops to light is a generic analysis taking into consideration the inverse square law which illustrates how lumen output is effected by the distance from a lighting source, in this case a 600w HPS. Lets say a 600w HPS produces 92,000 lumens. Considering the inverse square law the light emits 42k at 10", 19k at 15" and 4,700 at 30". A 600w HPS at 30" < initial maximum output of one single 4' T5 fluorescent bulb, not taking into consideration canopy shading. Not very much flower power. A 600w HPS at 11" = 35,000 lumens, probably pretty close to an 8 bulb T5 array at < 1" distance. 

Essentially, the closer you can keep your plants (within reason) while maintaining optimal environmental conditions, the more effective, useful and deeper penetrating the light energy is. This is what makes indoor scrogs, sea of green and diligent training techniques so useful to the indoor grower. Obviously it makes no difference if an outdoor flower is 4' off the ground or 15', the intensity of sunlight will not deviate from its output given the intensity of the light source, i.e. the sun. Indoor lighting is a completely different story. 

As you can see from the AK pic, I like my plants with an even canopy, close to the light for maximum and even lumen penetration. I just don't finish flowers 30" below the light, they end up in my compost, or in some cases hash. This is why my style of growing produces nothing but dense and resinous plant tops. I used to finish my plants top to bottom, but by the time the tops filled in and the light intensity was reduced under the canopy, it just wasn't worth the time to trim, certainly not smoke when I had an abundance of top nugz.

Do you get monster colas from under your canopy? I don't doubt that decent gear can be had from the bottoms of plants with adequate space, but typically indoor growers use tents, which are pretty crowded. There's not much to be had under the canopy in a tent that is packed for maximum yield. 

There's no wrong way to do what we're doing, but there are ways to maximize the results and efficiency using math and science. I tend to have that type of personality lol. 

Pic 1 - Inverse Square for various lighting types. Pic 2 - AK47 Pictured before. Pic 3 - AK47 which finished a while longer from a different run.


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## Dannoo93 (Sep 2, 2013)

I top all my plants to have 2-6 tops


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## JonnyAppleSeed420 (Sep 3, 2013)

Great info Swagbag. I have a grower here that lollipops and they look like your exactly except 4ft, tall. This is kinda what I mean, even though you may not be at the potential of the strain you can tell that your girls fit their space and that is all any of us can do. Each grow room or location will have restrictions and if you can learn to maximize your space like you, you can expect to get max yield for your sq/footage. Their beautiful, love the finish...that yellowing at this age is nice to see. I understand the parameters of the inverse law and use it as a guide line for setting rooms up, but after that you have to read the action in the room and make corrections on the fly. Start using the inverse law as a guide, then once you have a bench mark start leaving another 6 inches lower growth and just see your results. This will allow you to dial in just how much useable light/space you have. You will notice an increase in yield almost immediately, if you keep stretching your grow zone you will start to notice the lower stuff begins to fluff and feel airy, you have reached to point of no return back it off a little there and you are at max for your space. Its nice to see a conversation that doesn't degrade like so many others. Great chatting with you man! _JAS_


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## Shwagbag (Sep 3, 2013)

JonnyAppleSeed420 said:


> Great info Swagbag. I have a grower here that lollipops and they look like your exactly except 4ft, tall. This is kinda what I mean, even though you may not be at the potential of the strain you can tell that your girls fit their space and that is all any of us can do. Each grow room or location will have restrictions and if you can learn to maximize your space like you, you can expect to get max yield for your sq/footage. Their beautiful, love the finish...that yellowing at this age is nice to see. I understand the parameters of the inverse law and use it as a guide line for setting rooms up, but after that you have to read the action in the room and make corrections on the fly. Start using the inverse law as a guide, then once you have a bench mark start leaving another 6 inches lower growth and just see your results. This will allow you to dial in just how much useable light/space you have. You will notice an increase in yield almost immediately, if you keep stretching your grow zone you will start to notice the lower stuff begins to fluff and feel airy, you have reached to point of no return back it off a little there and you are at max for your space. Its nice to see a conversation that doesn't degrade like so many others. Great chatting with you man! _JAS_


Nice reply JAS, I appreciate the conversation as well! For what its worth, I don't think you are the asshole of the world. 

That AK with the yellowing may be the prettiest one I've ever done. I just liked her, even though I'm not a huge fan of the smoke! Its too damn paralyzing for me lol. Best of luck to you.


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