# Water Temps=important Summer=warm



## gvega187 (Jul 5, 2008)

alright, we get about 3 thread a day on here about water temps= root rot. 

There is an overwhelming majority of noobs that do not realize that this is a problem. 

CAN WE PLEASE POST A STICKY THAT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THIS?!!?
CAN WE ADD THAT TO THE FAQ SOMEHOW and simply DIRECT PPL THERE?

rofl brigade.


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## potroast (Jul 7, 2008)

alright.

Ya better listen up, he looks mean.


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## SOMEBEECH (Jul 7, 2008)

for sure needs to be faq section.


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## Mr Green Man (Jul 7, 2008)

*Water Temps.*

In hydroponics it is important to keep the water at a steady temperature. Especially in Deep Water Culture (DWC or Bubble Ponics).

As water becomes warmer it loses its ability to hold dissolved oxygen. A lack of oxygen slows growth and encourages Bad micro organisms to grow, the end result is a mass of slimy brown roots. 

I have found that ideal water temps are between 16c to 19c (61F  66F )

It is also important in the winter months to keep the water temps above 15c (59F) as low water temps can shock the roots and stunt growth.



*Keep your Rez Cool*

Here are a few ways to keep those temps down.

Most effective is a Water Cooler. These cost $$$ but will do the best job.

Ice Packs, You can place ICE packs in the Rez every day, this works okay.

Air movement. Placing a Fan to blow air across the top of the water can cool it by as much as 10C ß I have never tried this method but have been told it works.


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## gvega187 (Jul 13, 2008)

right....sooo....lets do it!

indeed potroast I am to be feared greatly.


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## xxedgexx (Jul 16, 2008)

I'm having these issues right now. I'm averaging 85F. I put a frozen gatorade bottle and it dropped by about 5 degrees only.

I would spend the money on a chiller...but how could this work for my power cloner? There's no additional holes available on the res to do the circulation. I guess I could cut my own, but I'd probably f that up some how.

I guess I'll be getting more gatorade bottles...

Despite the high temp, my clones are still rooting.


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## Earl (Jul 18, 2008)

Clones usually like warmer temperatures,
and since there are no roots, no rot,
normally you will move them, 
before that starts to happen.

DWC is prone to Root Rot,
always due to low DO*

*Altitude* and *Salinity* play an important role 
in how much DO a solution can carry.

If you reduce your nute loads,
your solution can carry more DO.

If you live in Denver, 
you may have a problem indoor growing
with any temps above 65ºf

If you check out Roseypanties' experiment,
you will see he had much better result using a reduced nute load.

There were two positive effects on his plants, 
that were grown using the reduced nute load.

The first good thing that happened was, 
his DO increased, 
due to the reduced salinity,
of his nutrient solution.

Second, osmotic pressure was reduced in the rhyzome,
allowing the plant to take in more H2o 
and thus grow faster.

What does this second statement really mean?

Take your hand, 
and leave it in salt water for an hour.

What happens?

Your skin wrinkles,... why?

Because the salt 
has caused the osmotic pressure 
on the outdside of your skin 
to be higher than the pressure inside your skin,
and as the water in your hand 
is sucked out through your skin,
your hand actually shrinks 
from the loss of fluid 
and the skin becomes loose 
and wrinkled.

It is harder for your plant 
to uptake water and nutrients 
when you use high nute loads,
because the salt creates negative osmotic pressure (hypertonicity)
against the semipermeable membrane 
of the root cell walls.

Here is the Wiki "scientific answer".

Osmotic pressure is the hydrostatic pressure 
produced by a solution 
in a space divided by a semipermeable membrane (your roots) 
due to a differential in the concentrations of solute. 

Osmoregulation is the homeostasis mechanism of an organism 
to reach balance in osmotic pressure.

Osmotic potential is the opposite of water potential 
with the former meaning 
the degree to which a solvent (usually water) 
would want to stay in a liquid 
and not pass through the membrane.

Hy*per*tonicity is a solution that causes cells to shrink. 

It may or may not have a higher osmotic pressure than the cell interior 
since the rate of water entry will depend upon the permeability of the cell membrane.

Hy*po*tonicity is a solution that causes cells to swell. 

It may or may not have a lower osmotic pressure than the cell interior,
since the rate of water entry will depend upon the permeability of the cell membrane.

*Isotonic* is a solution that produces no change in cell volume.
(this is what you want your nute solution to be)

When a biological cell is in a *hypotonic* environment, 
the cell interior accumulates water, 
water flows across the cell membrane into the cell, 
causing it to expand. 

In plant cells, 
the cell wall restricts the expansion, 
resulting in pressure on the cell wall 
from within called *turgor* pressure. 

(Swollen cells,
like swollen ankles or hands,
are not as productive.)

If you are good at math, 
and want to get your nute solution perfect,
the osmotic pressure of a dilute solution 
can be calculated using this formula

whereas
i is the van 't Hoff factor
M is the molarity
R is the gas constant, where R = 0.08206 L · atm · mol-1 · K-1
T is the thermodynamic temperature (formerly called absolute temperature)

Note: the similarity of the above formula to the ideal gas law 
and also that osmotic pressure is not dependent on particle charge. 
This equation was derived by van 't Hoff.

Now doing this calculation would be nice 
if there are any college math majors out there,
but I use this chart, 
and it has worked well for me.






_____________________*% of Nute Load*________________

As you can see, 50-75% is very adequate,
and it has been my personal experience,
that I have improved yields 
and better taste, 
when I use the lower end of "Sufficient", 
on that chart.

(*Dissolved Oxygen)
.


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## gvega187 (Jul 18, 2008)

Earl said:


> Clones usually like warmer temperatures,
> and since there are no roots, no rot,
> normally you will move them,
> before that starts to happen.
> ...



ahh good to see some responses on here finally. This thread is just like the 800 newb plant problem threads though...how a bout we just copy and paste all of earl's responses into a sticky thread. Anyone? no? ug. 

anyways ty for the chart earl. I have been waiting for that one to surface for a lil while. * saved * 

no offense noobs...keep on tryin.


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## SOMEBEECH (Jul 19, 2008)

Thank you earl.... Takin notes earl is like the old ef hutton commercials everybody better listen lol


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## SmokenGirl (Jul 21, 2008)

In seeMoreBuds video I noticed that he placed an aquarium heater in the aquamists and it was set to 82 degrees???????


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## gvega187 (Jul 21, 2008)

rofl - copter (inserted for length purposes)


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## TyPo (Jul 22, 2008)

He gave us a great chart, but how do I know what % of my water is nutrient?


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## JordanTheGreat (Jul 22, 2008)

i believe that it is fifty to seventy five percent of the maximum recomended dose per gallon...


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## gvega187 (Jul 22, 2008)

you may need to purchase a tds meter.

yeah like Erizle said, if it recommends 500ppm use about 250ppm.


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## patjack (Jul 24, 2008)

very interesting read as always thanks earl for the charts and knowledge, I will try this as my current water temps are getting to be about 76, although I am not experiencing any root rot I am worried, I will reduce my nute load by half and see what happens.


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## gvega187 (Jul 26, 2008)

You are probably getting away with those high temps due to lower nute loads and being at a lower elevation. Keep those things constant


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## kushkilla (Jul 31, 2008)

Added aeration is also a good preventative measure against root rot for those with borderline temps.


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## lorenzo08 (Aug 5, 2008)

here's another good thread on water temps

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/8621-how-keep-your-reservoir-cool.html


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## bongrippinbob (Aug 24, 2008)

I use a product in my drip system called SubCulture by Gen Hydro. I only run one of my mother plants in the drip system, all other plants are in soil, and I have never had a problem with root rot.
My res temps are consistently over 80 degrees, usually around 82-84. My hydro plant grows much, much faster than my soil plants. This product may help any one out there having trouble with root rot. It has micro organisms that help keep root rot at bay.


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## gvega187 (Aug 24, 2008)

you are probably having a combination of rediculous luck here. The temperatures u have are OK for CLONING. There is nothing you can add to your Res. that helps root rot except h2o2, cold h2o and air stones.


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## gvega187 (Aug 24, 2008)

I have read that hygrozyme and sub culture are good for ridding of rot after you get it...somehow. Either way you should probably just start over if your cropage is roted.


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## bongrippinbob (Aug 24, 2008)

There are actually some mycoparasites that have been found to be useful in preventing root rot. If these mycoparasites are in the water, the second that there is any Pythium, these parasites would remove it. It is called parasitism. I believe that SubCulture has these parasites in it, and that is why it helps prevent root rot. 

If something helps to get rid of root rot why would it not also prevent it? If we are to follow your logic, than these statements would be true. "If your air filter in your car is clogged, you lose power. If you change your dirty air filter, your power comes back. But if you change your air filter before it becomes clogged, you will not prevent the lose of power." Obviously, this is false.

This is the same thing that is going on with the root rot. It is brought on by a parasite (or fungi as its commonly considered) in the water. If, when this fungi is in full swing, SubCulture will help to get rid of the parasites in the water when they are in high numbers, why wouldn't it get rid of them in smaller numbers as well? It seems as though it would be easier for the colony of "good" stuff in the water to kill a small number of "bad" parasites than it would be to kill a larger number once the rot has taken hold.


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## bigtittymilf (Aug 24, 2008)

my water temo is 73 is that high enough to cause probllems if so how much is a chiller i just spent my last 300 on my ppm meter and cant afford mroe supplies till harvest or till i find a job


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## bigbong1411 (Aug 24, 2008)

bongrippinbob said:


> There are actually some mycoparasites that have been found to be useful in preventing root rot. If these mycoparasites are in the water, the second that there is any Pythium, these parasites would remove it. It is called parasitism. I believe that SubCulture has these parasites in it, and that is why it helps prevent root rot.
> 
> If something helps to get rid of root rot why would it not also prevent it? If we are to follow your logic, than these statements would be true. "If your air filter in your car is clogged, you lose power. If you change your dirty air filter, your power comes back. But if you change your air filter before it becomes clogged, you will not prevent the lose of power." Obviously, this is false.
> 
> This is the same thing that is going on with the root rot. It is brought on by a parasite (or fungi as its commonly considered) in the water. If, when this fungi is in full swing, SubCulture will help to get rid of the parasites in the water when they are in high numbers, why wouldn't it get rid of them in smaller numbers as well? It seems as though it would be easier for the colony of "good" stuff in the water to kill a small number of "bad" parasites than it would be to kill a larger number once the rot has taken hold.




You, my friend, are totally correct! At least your logic is anyways.


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## gvega187 (Aug 24, 2008)

lol word bong buddies....tell someone else about your flawless logic. you sound like data from star trek rofl. just kidding. I use hygrozyme and have used florashield and all this bs. 

Al B Fuct would classify this as a "magic sauce" and I am begining to believe him. 

Big Tit- You might not have a problem, but ideal res water temp is 68. Cheap way to cool would be to get a AC window unit from W-mart. Buy a chiller later if you can. $200-2000 depending on res size


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## bigbong1411 (Aug 24, 2008)

gvega187 said:


> lol word bong buddies...


hehe...That's funny...I didn't realize that we're both bongers.


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## lorenzo08 (Aug 25, 2008)

an even cheaper way, put a small fan blowing on your res. it can lower your res temp as much as 5 or 10 degrees. just keep an eye on your water level every day.


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## bongrippinbob (Aug 25, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> an even cheaper way, put a small fan blowing on your res. it can lower your res temp as much as 5 or 10 degrees. just keep an eye on your water level every day.


That was mentioned in the very first post.

I was trying to let everyone know there are products out there that will help to prevent root rot even if your temps are a little high, or real high like mine are.

While using a fan on your res, not only do you have to keep an eye on your water level, but also your ppm's and your pH as they will change drastically if the fan is evaporating a bunch of water.


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## Earl (Aug 25, 2008)

bongrippinbob said:


> your ppm's and your pH will change drastically if the fan is evaporating a bunch of water.


This *will *happen when your plants are drinking a lot also.

Rapid growth and VPD will affect water consumption also.
(vapor pressure deficit)

Diligent monitoring of fast growing plants is a must.


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## bongrippinbob (Aug 25, 2008)

I figure when your plants are using a lot of water, there is no reason to add to the evaporation process. Your plants will be creating enough work for you, you don't need to make more for yourself.


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## kalisurfer2867 (Aug 28, 2008)

I put frozen two liter bottles in my res now to keep it cool, had to find that out the hard way


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## YaK (Aug 29, 2008)

I'm in southern cali... and it's god damn hot. res temps are always a big issue. I've been pricing chillers, and looking for bargains and as I was grabbing a beer from my little fridge today, I had an epiphane.

my little fridge/freezer, can chill my reservoires! we have the god damn technology. So, I went to home depot, spent 40 dollars, and I think I have enough shit to cool 3 rez's.

chillers are ridiculously expensive, and I had some extra pumps laying around anyway (who in this ballgame doesnt?)

so here are some pictures of the shit I have to work with... 
I put the hose into a gallon container wrapped in coils. I filled the container most of the way up with water. (last picture), and I'm going to freeze it. Once it is frozen, I am going to put it into the freezer of my small little fridge, drill holes to run the intake/exit hoses to go to rez 1. and then I will monitor the temps to see what type of temp difference I get. 

The fridge cost me 100 dollars, and it's pretty cheap to run, it'll cool my res's AND keep my beers frosty and delicious.

I should hopefully be able to post the results by the end of the weekend.

p.s. you can see in one of the pictures a 100 dollar "Ice probe" that I got off of ebay, it really doesnt make much of a difference of temp in that res... maybe 2 to 4 degrees? probably closer to two degress. The res that it's in is a 27 gallon container, but with the two 4" tubes, it holds about 15 gallons of water. I really hope that the small fridge does significantly better than the ice probe. time will tell.


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## patjack (Aug 29, 2008)

Wow that is good thinking on the fly, I will be interested to see what happens


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## YaK (Aug 29, 2008)

thanks man... I'm interested as well. When in home de'POT there was flexible copper coils that sold for 40 dollars for 20' of the stuff... more expensive, and I'd have had to have 20' per res... for the temperature transfer, it may have been a better idea, but I decided to try the cheap route first. (this always proves to be a mistake) The tubing I got was 1/2 inch stuff, with an inside diameter of 3/8ths of an inch, the pump I have is a fountain pump, I can take pictures or put a link to it later if all this actually makes any difference.

I'm deadset on trying to make my litte fridge/freezer work though, if I have to, I will buy copper at 40 bucks a pop. To me, this is energy money I'm spending anyway, and I may as well make the most of it.

As far as chillers go, yes, I know a commercial 1/4 horsepower one would probably be way better, but you cant get them for less than 300 dollars... and I cant afford that, because I have 3 reserviors... that's a lot of chicken scratch. fuck that.

Anyone who lives in a hot climate... seriously, you only usually need to drop the temps about 10 degrees right? cross your fingers for me please, because I'm hoping that this works, I want happy stable plants cooled cheaply in a chilly res. (oh yeah, and my beer too)


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## bongrippinbob (Aug 29, 2008)

I think that the copper in the res is a bad idea. I am not positive, but I believe that is like the one material you are suppose to stay away from in your res.


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## YaK (Aug 30, 2008)

bongrippinbob said:


> I think that the copper in the res is a bad idea. I am not positive, but I believe that is like the one material you are suppose to stay away from in your res.


the copper would only be in the freezer, I would solder hose barbs on the end of the tubes coming out of the side of the fridge to connect the plastic tubing to, or maybe just get 3/8ths outside diameter copper, and get black rubber hose with a 3/8ths inside diameter and use hose clamps.


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## Earl (Aug 30, 2008)

Nutrients cannot flow through copper 
or come into contact with any copper,
or it will be a disaster.

The high salt content and low pH 
will quickly leach the copper 
and cause toxicity.

All plastic or titanium
are your only choices.
.


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## YaK (Aug 30, 2008)

Earl... thanks for that information, I had not considered what the nutrient solution would do to the copper, the plastic seems to be working okay so far, it's been running all day today and it dropped the temp of the rez 10 degrees, but the block of ice that I froze around the tubing melted after a bout two hours with the pump running, I'm hoping that it freezes again overnight. time will tell. 

copper, and titanium are out, I wonder if I can find a good stainless steel radiator coil to throw in the freezer? hmm.... 




Earl said:


> Nutrients cannot flow through copper
> or come into contact with any copper,
> or it will be a disaster.
> 
> ...


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## bongrippinbob (Aug 31, 2008)

I knew there was something that was bad about copper. I just coudn't remember.


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## Earl (Aug 31, 2008)

Titanium is ok
Most chillers are made of titanium
thats why they cost so much


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## grow1 (Sep 3, 2008)

i turned my res into a cooler by wraping it with foam insulation board found at home depot for $20 keeps res nice and cool. i just drop a frozen gallon jug of water in and my temps stay bellow 70 for at least two days and its about 90 deg outside here


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## YaK (Sep 5, 2008)

I tried... it didnt work. The temperature of the water just melts the ice in the block, faster than the little freezer can maintain the temperature.

The only other thing I havent tried, is to fill the rest of the freezer with 2 litre bottles of frozen water, to help keep the ice with the coiled tubes in it "frozen" but I'm pretty frustrated at this point as to the results.

guess I'm going to have to buy 3 chillers. fuck me.

anyone got some at a bargain price?
pm me!



YaK said:


> I'm in southern cali... and it's god damn hot. res temps are always a big issue. I've been pricing chillers, and looking for bargains and as I was grabbing a beer from my little fridge today, I had an epiphane.
> 
> my little fridge/freezer, can chill my reservoires! we have the god damn technology. So, I went to home depot, spent 40 dollars, and I think I have enough shit to cool 3 rez's.
> 
> ...


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 5, 2008)

maybe you can try tweaking your setup a little more first. maybe try double or triple the length of coiled tubing in the freezer. maybe have a small computer fan blow on it in the freezer. spread out the heat in there and move more of it around.


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## bongrippinbob (Sep 5, 2008)

Or maybe just get a larger freezer. You can get a used freezer for fairly cheap, like one of the full sized ones. Then you would be able to put enough coils in there to cool way more than enough water for the 3 res'.


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## YaK (Sep 5, 2008)

bongrippinbob said:


> Or maybe just get a larger freezer. You can get a used freezer for fairly cheap, like one of the full sized ones. Then you would be able to put enough coils in there to cool way more than enough water for the 3 res'.


 Lorenzo, and BrB... those are both very good ideas.

a big freezer would probably work, and work well, but it would be expensive to run. I dont know what the power draw on a chiller is, i bet the cost offset would be significant. interesting thought.

I'm thinking of a tupperware thing that is about the same size as my freezer compartment. I dont think I'll be able to cool all three rezs with it, but if I can just cool one, that would be fine, since I run the thing anyway. I'd like to make it work... I mean, I already drilled two holes in the side, I may as well try everything.

Oh yeah, I sealed the holes with that spray expandible foam that you can get from Home Depot, I dont know what the R value of it is... but it seems like a pretty good insulator.


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## gvega187 (Sep 5, 2008)

check out current USA prime chillers. A 1/10hp or 1/15hp may fit your setup. They are fairly inexpensive on some sites.


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## fitzyno1 (Sep 8, 2008)

If you defrost your freezer, and get a frost proof container that will fit exactly in the freezer space. Join up and pack as much copper coil into that container as you can. Have an inlet and outlet through your freezer, fill the container with water. Get stainless steal coils for your rez's. Join all piping, rez coils, and connect a low lph pump (say 200lph pump). Pump ordinary water through the system, keep two open ends of the system below water level (in a bucket of water) to get rid of any air. Join up the two ends of the system under water keeping all air out of the system so the water will circulate round the system. Now you have a system that will run freezing cold water through your rez's to keep them cool. If that doesn't work, get a bigger (second hand) freezer and make the system bigger.
Thans my 2 cents worth.
Hope it works for you.


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## fitzyno1 (Sep 8, 2008)

A chest freezer would be your ticket, and insulate all piping between the rez's.


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## YaK (Sep 8, 2008)

that is an excellent suggestion, thanks fitzy. You're suggesting essentially creating a closed system drop in chiller using stainless for the rez, and copper for the freezer. I'm not sure what it'd cost, but I think the biggest problem with that system, is my inability to regulate the temperature should the water get TOO cold. 

at what temperature on the lower end does it negatively affect the plants?

i also got a good score off of craigslist, 150 dollars for two chillers, one working, one not. They are aquanetics drop in chillers, and they both have regulators, pretty kick ass. If I fix the one chiller, and get something to work with my little fridge/freezer, then I'll effectively have a chiller for each res.

I really like the simplicity of drop in chillers. Does anyone know of the pros/cons of drop ins as opposed to the chillers that pump your res water?


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## fitzyno1 (Sep 8, 2008)

I was just thinking there that the first rez will be alot colder than the last rez. You could have a 3 branch manifolds on the inlet and outlet of the freezer. If you think your rez would be too cold, start off with large stainless steal coils in the rez, and keep cutting them down until you get the right tempertue. It shouldn't cost all that much to make that.


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 8, 2008)

you can use something like car anti-freeze in the system to prevent problems with freeze-ups. then put a thermostat on the circulation pump. when the res is at the perfect temperature, the pump will shut off and keep it there.


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## fitzyno1 (Sep 8, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> you can use something like car anti-freeze in the system to prevent problems with freeze-ups. then put a thermostat on the circulation pump. when the res is at the perfect temperature, the pump will shut off and keep it there.


Now we're sucking diesel lol (we're on the right track)


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## corral hollow kid (Sep 9, 2008)

By the time you guys are done using copper, tiny dorm room refers, gatorade bottles, and whatelse you come up with...you could have just purchased a decent chiller and called it good!


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## YaK (Sep 9, 2008)

I run the small fridge in the room anyway, keeps my cheap ass beer cold. 

Price any chillers lately? I like having the good stuff, for sure, but the fridge was there anyway, running, so I figured it was worth a try.


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## fitzyno1 (Sep 9, 2008)

YaK said:


> I run the small fridge in the room anyway, keeps my cheap ass beer cold.
> 
> Price any chillers lately? I like having the good stuff, for sure, but the fridge was there anyway, running, so I figured it was worth a try.


Have you started a construction yet? 
I'd like to know how it would turn out for furture references. You could start a craze with a DIY chiller.


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## corral hollow kid (Sep 9, 2008)

hot


YaK said:


> I run the small fridge in the room anyway, keeps my cheap ass beer cold.
> 
> Price any chillers lately? I like having the good stuff, for sure, but the fridge was there anyway, running, so I figured it was worth a try.


Yeah...I know what a good "Chiller" cost. But by the time you guys are done trying to reinvent the wheel...it's already been done. 

Use the "jockey box" theory and make something cold (see below) and run the fluid through the cold plate. Just insulate the tubing from the fridge back to the tank to minimize thermal exchange.

Check this out...ya put one of these bad boys into your freezer then simply use a fountain pump to recirculate your nute sol through the cold plate. AND...Stainless Steel tubing...NO COPPER!!!

or you put it in a cooler and run hot beer from your unchilled keg through it and the beer comes out iceeeeeeyyyyyyy cold!!!

Check home brewing supply places. If you already have a refer/freezer that you don't mind cutting into then I think you can pull this off for less than $150.00



Cold Plates, Single Line Price: $94.95 Availability: Usually ships in 24-48 hours Catalog Nbr: 5114 Ship Weight: 16 
Qty: Price: *$94.95*  


Product Description: Cold Plates: Do-It-Yourself Draft box. Aluminum housing with internal 10&#8217; stainless steel product line. Includes fittings and O-rings.


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## Earl (Sep 10, 2008)

I like it.
Show us some pics.


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## Earl (Sep 11, 2008)

You need the Stainless Steel model.

Aluminum will melt in salt water.


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## YaK (Sep 11, 2008)

Earl said:


> You need the Stainless Steel model.
> 
> Aluminum will melt in salt water.


the 94.95 dollar model that corral hollow kid posted is stainless steel tubing encased in an aluminum block.

I think it's a really good idea, and in about a month, I will buy one and get it all fabbed up.


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## Earl (Sep 11, 2008)

Great, post some pix for us please.


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## bongrippinbob (Sep 11, 2008)

What about using something like this as well or instead? These are half the price of the cold plate posted and won't need a freezer to use it. Stainless Steel Immersion Wort Chiller :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies It says it can bring water from boiling down to under 80degrees in 15min.


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 11, 2008)

bongrippinbob said:


> What about using something like this as well or instead? These are half the price of the cold plate posted and won't need a freezer to use it. Stainless Steel Immersion Wort Chiller :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies It says it can bring water from boiling down to under 80degrees in 15min.


that could work well too. I'd like to check at the scrap yard for some stainless steel tubing. how can I tell what kind of metal it is? just bring a magnet with me? would that be enough to tell if it's ok to use?


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## fitzyno1 (Sep 11, 2008)

Yeah, if the magnet sticks to it, and its not rusty, its stainless LOL.


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## corral hollow kid (Sep 11, 2008)

I homebrew...and I have a copper immersion chiller for my wert. I would not recoommend trying to fab this up...you can take the cold plate I showed off earlier and simply put it into an igloo cooler full of ice water....tits on a Ritz, now THAT'S a good cracker!!!


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## corral hollow kid (Sep 11, 2008)

So 100 bucks for the cold plate.

20 bucks for a decent cooler.

12 bucks for a fountain pump.

5 bucks for some tubing.

Wallah...$137.00 later, you have a home brew chiller. You just have to keep ice or ice water (transfers the heat better, more contact on the plate) on the cold plate.

I should'a been a rocket scientist!!!  Check out my new flood table. This works KILLER!!! I was gonna do a DWC to veg em out, but this will work a thousand times better!!! AND...I don't kill my plants if the power goes out for a couple hours!

Peace!


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## fitzyno1 (Sep 18, 2008)

Yak, did you get anywhere with your DIY cooler, or did you end up buying them 2 you were talking about?


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## BizarroOH! (Sep 19, 2008)

I was wondering if using hydrogen peroxide in your resevoir would make up for the lack of dissolved oxygen at higher temperatures. I was also wondering how to use hygrozyme properly. Do you add it to your nutrient soup or is it something that you use on its own with plain water? Thanks!


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## fitzyno1 (Sep 20, 2008)

Biz you can't use hydrogen peroxide (H202) if you use hygrozyme. Hygrozyme is organic and the H202 will eat it.


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## bongrippinbob (Sep 21, 2008)

H2O2 should only be used if absolutley necessary.

The H2O2 will kill all the good the stuff in the water along with killing the bad. You should only use it if you are having problems.


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## YaK (Sep 21, 2008)

fitzyno1 said:


> Yak, did you get anywhere with your DIY cooler, or did you end up buying them 2 you were talking about?


I got two "drop in" chillers.. one worked, and one looked like it had been left outside for 20 years, it wouldnt even turn on. I took it apart, cleaned it, painted it, and it turned on, now I just need to charge it (again) and find out where the leak is in the system thats keeping it from holding refridgerant.

It was 150 bucks for both of them, a huge bargain if I can get the other one running on the cheap.


As for my mini-fridge system.. that is on hold for a little while until I buy one of those cold plates that CHK suggested. I'm in no hurry so I'm not going to rush to spend the casheesh right now. When I try it though, I will show the process with pictures too. 


first pic, nasty ass dirty chiller. second: the one that works well, keeps the temp at 69 +/- 1 degree. third: my 7 foot trees, all the way to the ceiling and bent over.


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 22, 2008)

YaK said:


> I got two "drop in" chillers.. one worked, and one looked like it had been left outside for 20 years, it wouldnt even turn on. I took it apart, cleaned it, painted it, and it turned on, now I just need to charge it (again) and find out where the leak is in the system thats keeping it from holding refridgerant.


some water in a spray bottle with dawn dish soap in it. spray that on the pipes and you will see it bubble where it's leaking


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## Capita (Sep 22, 2008)

will adding h2o2 (hydrogen peroxide) in my res allow me to run higher res temps because of more DO?


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## gvega187 (Sep 23, 2008)

past 75 degrees water holds little to no oxygen. If you do rely on h2o2 make sure to add it on a strict schedule. every 3 days add whatever ml/gal u see to be the magical number. (varies by the plants age and whoever you ask)


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## YaK (Sep 23, 2008)

what is a temperature that is TOO cold? I'm having issues with my temp controller on my drop in chiller, and I want to just put the thing on a timer to let the temps fluctuate, but hopefully keeping the temps within a certain range not to exceed 71. I want to play with the timer settings, but need to know how cold is too cold.

oh, and thanks for the tip for finding the refrigerant leak, I will definately try that. they are charged with 134A which I can easily get at any auto parts store.

c'monnnnnnnnn WINTER!


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## gvega187 (Sep 27, 2008)

apparently running your res. as low as 50 F is acceptable. Earl says Canadians do it all of the time in their hooses.


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## YaK (Sep 27, 2008)

gvega187 said:


> apparently running your res. as low as 50 F is acceptable. Earl says Canadians do it all of the time in their hooses.


lol... okay eh.

Thanks!


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## HydroChron (Sep 28, 2008)

Does anyone have any go tips to lowering the temp of a couple bucket bubble systems? they are stand alone systems and dont share a res so i would have to run them too both and or add a large res which i dont want to do. I have heard of the ice probes but know little about them. If anyone has any ideas and on ways to lower a DWC bubbler please please let me know. I am running about 80F and am a seedling so i have about a week at most to figure somthing out. Thanks for you help and sorry for hijacking


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## Bigtimeblazin (Sep 28, 2008)

i'm in the tropics and i use 28 or 40 quart coolers with 6"net cup holes in the top. my nute temp stays at the lower end of whatever i set the wall unit 2. u can get some of the really big coolers for your rez if running a different system. i just bubble the heck out of the coolers. that's interesting what was said about the nute strength. i inadvertantly figured this out 6months ago, but i never attributed it to the lower DO level. we always had issues on the initial put into the coolers into flower with brand new nutes and all that. I've found that it's better to put them into flower with the nutes they were in(meaning veg stuff) for the first 3-5 days of flower. and then switch to flower stuff( weaker to start) and then bump it up. sidenote i used to have a 1/3HP drop in chiller. they work well, cost a lot and they also need 2 be exhausted. I've had better luck with a $200 wall unit and the cooler set up. peace


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## Bigtimeblazin (Sep 28, 2008)

hey hydrochron. if u r using the 5gallon net cups they fit perfect into the home depot water coolers.


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## Earl (Sep 28, 2008)

Water has very unique density qualities. 

Most liquids become denser as they become cooler. 

Water, however, gets denser as it cools 
until it reaches a temperature of approximately 39ºF. 
The denser the water becomes the more oxygen it can hold.

50º is a common earth subsurface temperature necessary to stimulate germnation.

As Water cools below 39º,
it becomes lighter until it freezes (32ºF). 

As ice develops, 
water increases in volume by 11 percent. 

The increase in volume allows ice to float rather than sink, 
a characteristic that prevents ponds from freezing solid.

Dissolved gases are those which are in a water solution. 

An example of gas dissolved in solution is soda water 
which has large quantities of dissolved carbon dioxide. 

The most common gases are oxygen, 
carbon dioxide, nitrogen, and ammonia. 

Concentrations are measured in parts per million (ppm) 
or milligrams per liter (mg/1), both units of measure are the same.

At sea level and zero salinity, 
(that means no nutes), 

68ºF water can hold 9.2 ppm DO, 

while at 86.0F, 
saturation is at 7.6 ppm DO, 
and unable to support "any useful life".


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## HydroChron (Sep 28, 2008)

yea the bucket is a square dwc or the water coolers would be a great idea. Does anyone know any ways to cool it or if i could get a small water cooler that is for small aquariums? I need to hurry as my first tap root just reached the water and it is already turning an off white because the water is about 79F


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## Bigtimeblazin (Sep 29, 2008)

i've seen some of the square water coolers from powerade. not sure if it would fit though. it might be possible to still transplant to the round setup if u have to. don't be scared to try to transplant, there's nothing worse than the feeling of pulling out the brown roots and watching stuff go down hill fast. good luck


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## lorenzo08 (Sep 29, 2008)

wouldn't to cold be bad? I was thinking about it last night. I think water to chilly might stun the root growth. I was thinking about it because I was worried about the floor of my future grow room. I have to come up with a way to insulate my floor from the cold winter. I remembered a video I saw once where they use those styrofoam sheets to keep soil pots off the cold ground.


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## bongrippinbob (Sep 29, 2008)

I'm telling you, the Sub Culture from GH works wonders. It will keep the root rot at bay by eliminating the bacteria as it grows. 

If the bacteria can never form a colony, they cannot reproduce and attack your roots.


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## HydroChron (Sep 29, 2008)

bongrippinbob said:


> I'm telling you, the Sub Culture from GH works wonders. It will keep the root rot at bay by eliminating the bacteria as it grows.
> 
> If the bacteria can never form a colony, they cannot reproduce and attack your roots.


 
haha I believed you the first time. Its on the way. Im also gonna give hygrozyme a shot. Thank you for the tip. what you are saying makes complete sense. how much do u mix per gallon? i know it is a dry mix so does it need to be weighed? thanks for your help bob


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## bongrippinbob (Sep 30, 2008)

It says you can use up to one "pouch" per five gallons I believe. I mix it at like 1/2 tsp per gallon. 

Because it is not nutrients, it is not going to burn your plants. With the fact that you can use an entire pouch (I'm not sure how much is in each one), makes me think it won't hurt if you used even more than the 1/2tsp.


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## Indica722 (Sep 30, 2008)

YaK said:


> I tried... it didnt work. The temperature of the water just melts the ice in the block, faster than the little freezer can maintain the temperature.
> 
> The only other thing I havent tried, is to fill the rest of the freezer with 2 litre bottles of frozen water, to help keep the ice with the coiled tubes in it "frozen" but I'm pretty frustrated at this point as to the results.
> 
> ...


 Ya...check craigslist....A lot of people sell aquarium chillers for real cheap and they work perfect for up tp 50 gallon res...They are 1/10hp


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## Bigtimeblazin (Sep 30, 2008)

the styrofoam sheets for the floor should help buffer the cold. yes too cold is bad. my coolers help me even when it does get cold because they buffer any temp swings. temp diff is good for the plants but not the roots. things should stay pretty constant there.


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## Earl (Sep 30, 2008)

Bigtimeblazin said:


> Temp diff is good for the plants, but not the roots. Things should stay pretty constant there.


Amen brother.
.


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## HydroChron (Sep 30, 2008)

soo what would you say is a good way to cool down a stand alone dwc? I cant take a frozen 20oz in and out without damaging the roots and i dont know what to do. There has to be someone out there who has had heat issues with a stand alone


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## Earl (Oct 1, 2008)

Try the subculture and let us know.

Add more air if you can afford it.

Blow air onto the surface of your rez,
and the evaporation will drop the temp,
but you may need to add water often 
and watch that the tds does not skyrocket.

Buy a window air conditioner 
and rig it so that it blows on the walls of the rez.
Check craigs list for used A/C units about $75-100


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## Earl (Oct 1, 2008)

Keep the room at 64-66º F
in the winter.


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 1, 2008)

Earl said:


> Try the subculture and let us know.
> 
> Add more air if you can afford it.
> 
> ...


cooling your res by evaporation can lower the water temp by as much as 10f, which is good, but you will have to top off the res with fresh water at least once a day. these are all good ideas earl


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## Bigtimeblazin (Oct 6, 2008)

hydrochron. dude my incoming water temp is 78. putting a frozen jug in there will probably do more damage than good.too inconsistent. those subculture things can work but a lot of them have copper in them which helps sanitize. but it sanitizes everything, even the good guys. a/c is a must and whatever it is set at my h20 temp stays at the lower end of the a/c temp swing. i've done aquaponics with 84 water and phenomanal results. earl, 64-66 h20. that makes me laugh. don't ever see h20 that cold here. haha


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## Earl (Oct 6, 2008)

Bigtimeblazin said:


> i've done aquaponics with 84 water and phenomanal results. earl, 64-66 h20. that makes me laugh. don't ever see h20 that cold here. haha


Got any pictures.
Are you growing DWC?/Aero? What?


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## HydroChron (Oct 6, 2008)

Bigtimeblazin said:


> hydrochron. dude my incoming water temp is 78. putting a frozen jug in there will probably do more damage than good.too inconsistent. those subculture things can work but a lot of them have copper in them which helps sanitize. but it sanitizes everything, even the good guys. a/c is a must and whatever it is set at my h20 temp stays at the lower end of the a/c temp swing. i've done aquaponics with 84 water and phenomanal results. earl, 64-66 h20. that makes me laugh. don't ever see h20 that cold here. haha


 
cool, thank you very much man. yea i figures that the temp swing from the frozen wter jug might be a bit much. not to mention that it would damage the roots on the way in and out. Im gonna try hygrozyme and subculture and hope for the best. things seem to stay about 78F during the day and about 74F at night. I hope things work out. thanks again man


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## YaK (Oct 6, 2008)

HydroChron said:


> cool, thank you very much man. yea i figures that the temp swing from the frozen wter jug might be a bit much. not to mention that it would damage the roots on the way in and out. Im gonna try hygrozyme and subculture and hope for the best. things seem to stay about 78F during the day and about 74F at night. I hope things work out. thanks again man


temp swing from a frozen water jug? I cant see that hurting anything, but 84 degree water will eventually give you problems, if he was lucky enough to grow at that water temp with "phenomenal" results, I'm sure that I'm not alone in wanting to see these results, and hear all of the other aspects of his grow.


What are you thanking him for? telling you that you can grow at higher temps? I had to chop twice because of failing to address the water temp problem, I hope that doesnt happen to you.


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## bongrippinbob (Oct 6, 2008)

Here is some stuff about higher temps in the res.

Co2/Temp experiment - Cannabis Culture Forums

Raising the Temperature Bar - Cannabis Culture Forums


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## HydroChron (Oct 7, 2008)

YaK said:


> temp swing from a frozen water jug? I cant see that hurting anything, but 84 degree water will eventually give you problems, if he was lucky enough to grow at that water temp with "phenomenal" results, I'm sure that I'm not alone in wanting to see these results, and hear all of the other aspects of his grow.
> 
> 
> What are you thanking him for? telling you that you can grow at higher temps? I had to chop twice because of failing to address the water temp problem, I hope that doesnt happen to you.


 
k......... well i have been told that you want consistency and it seem to me that taking in and out a frozen water jug would make it get cooler for a short amount of time and them rise again so i would assume that would cause damage. not to mention i am using a self containing bucket system, so i would have to put the frozen jug right next to or on the roots as they grow. but again i could be wrong thats why i asked and thats why i thanked him because he had advice. whether good or bad he tried to help me. Thank you for making sure that i completely understand that if temps dont go down im fuct. appreciate it


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 7, 2008)

> I use GH Sub Culture in my nute solution to keep the rot away, and I have never had a problem running my temps that high. And with the sub culture, it allows you to run higher temps with out root root because it will destroy the bad bacteria before it can create a colony and cause you troubles.


Co2/Temp experiment - Cannabis Culture Forums

I think the problem everyone is missing is that the good bacteria has to take hold on the system first, before it can destroy the bad bacteria. it doesn't work like H2O2, you can't just dump it in and expect it to work right away. I wonder what the directions on the bottle say to do? the bad bacteria can probably take hold on the system faster then the good can, so they just end up killing off the good and you end up with the problems.


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## bongrippinbob (Oct 7, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> Co2/Temp experiment - Cannabis Culture Forums
> 
> I think the problem everyone is missing is that the good bacteria has to take hold on the system first, before it can destroy the bad bacteria. it doesn't work like H2O2, you can't just dump it in and expect it to work right away. I wonder what the directions on the bottle say to do? the bad bacteria can probably take hold on the system faster then the good can, so they just end up killing off the good and you end up with the problems.


The directions tell you to use a large dose the first application, you can use it at like 30x the normal amount you would use. After the first one, you drop the dose a ton. The reason they say to use a large first dose is probably to get a colony going asap.

So if you use SubCulture from day one, when there are no "bad" bacteria, then you will never have a problem. It is about preventing it from ever happening, not getting rid of it once it is there.


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 7, 2008)

bongrippinbob said:


> The directions tell you to use a large dose the first application, you can use it at like 30x the normal amount you would use. After the first one, you drop the dose a ton. The reason they say to use a large first dose is probably to get a colony going asap.
> 
> So if you use SubCulture from day one, when there are no "bad" bacteria, then you will never have a problem. It is about preventing it from ever happening, not getting rid of it once it is there.


how much is it at a grow shop normally, and do you know about how long it lasts with a 5 gallon res? I'm almost out of nutes, so I'll be taking a trip to the shop this weekend, I'll see what they have


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## bongrippinbob (Oct 7, 2008)

A lot of the shops will sell individual packets. It comes in a container that has a bunch of packets in it. I don't remember how much it was exactly, they are like $10-$15 each i think. And the whole tub is well over $100.

It says on the instructions that you can use up to an entire pouch per 5gallons. I only use like 1/4-1/2 tsp per gallon. I am not sure how much is in each packet, but it will last a while. I have only used like 1tsp per gallon at the most. I have never had a problem with root rot, so I never felt the need to do the giant first dose. If you are not having any problems, then just the 1/2 tsp per gallon should be fine.


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 7, 2008)

bongrippinbob said:


> A lot of the shops will sell individual packets. It comes in a container that has a bunch of packets in it. I don't remember how much it was exactly, they are like $10-$15 each i think. And the whole tub is well over $100.
> 
> It says on the instructions that you can use up to an entire pouch per 5gallons. I only use like 1/4-1/2 tsp per gallon. I am not sure how much is in each packet, but it will last a while. I have only used like 1tsp per gallon at the most. I have never had a problem with root rot, so I never felt the need to do the giant first dose. If you are not having any problems, then just the 1/2 tsp per gallon should be fine.


thanks for the info. is this the stuff that helps with algae too or is that something else? I don't think I've sounded like such a noob in a while. lol


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## bongrippinbob (Oct 7, 2008)

I have no idea about the algae. If you can just keep the light out of your res, you will not have algae problems.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 8, 2008)

just started subculture and hygrozyme. one of the them is def helping! not sure which one  res temp has been constant 75 during day and 72 at night. the weather is turning though and i am honestly kinda worried about how its gonna be when its freezing outside. the res went from 80F one week to 75F the next.


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## bongrippinbob (Oct 9, 2008)

I'm sure its been mentioned, but you can just put an adjustable fish tank heater in there. Just make sure you test the temps before you just set it and leave it.


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 9, 2008)

Hydrokronics said:


> just started subculture and hygrozyme. one of the them is def helping! not sure which one  res temp has been constant 75 during day and 72 at night. the weather is turning though and i am honestly kinda worried about how its gonna be when its freezing outside. the res went from 80F one week to 75F the next.


I had to put a heater in my grow room to keep the temps up. if the res is in the room, you shouldn't have to worry to much about heating the res. just keep an eye on things  cool air temps in the room can stun growth. I noticed it when the temp went down to 70 during the day inside.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 9, 2008)

yea right when october hit and the temp dropped in my area there was a noticable difference inside. Im thinking that a heater might be nessary as the temp drops as we get into winter. My only concern with using a heater is how much energy and amperage that use. I know most heaters are over 1000w even on the lowest setting. and i know they need a steady high number of amps


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## bongrippinbob (Oct 9, 2008)

If you can get away with it, have your exhaust on thermostat so that it will kick off when its too cold, and will come on when it warms up. This way you don't have a heater in your room using extra power, and it will actually save you power by having your exhaust off some of the time.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 9, 2008)

so u mean put my exhaust output right by the central air thermostat so that the heat in the house will kick on only when its too cold and turn off when its warm enough?


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## bongrippinbob (Oct 9, 2008)

No. You can buy thermostats that you can just plug into an outlet, then plug in whatever you want to the thermostat. They are like $40.


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## Grow.T (Oct 11, 2008)

hmm... i have a question for anyone smart... if the only reason for root rot is low do in the water... then does an aero setup due with higher res temps... due to the roots being exposed to oxygen?


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## bongrippinbob (Oct 12, 2008)

I don't believe that root rot is caused by low levels of oxygen in the water. I am not positive about this, but I am pretty sure it is caused by bacteria or whatever that are able to thrive in the warm environment. The low oxygen levels cause different problems like stunted growth, etc.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 12, 2008)

Im pretty sure root rot is caused my high temps + low oxygen. When there is so much oxygen that it is past saturation point then there is a much less likly chance of root rot even at the same temp without the extra oxygen. Water that is just sitting in a res will get much warmer then water that is getting TONS of air, even in the exact same enviorment. so you could kinda say that without air you are almost garenteed to have root "problems" There are many other things that can play in causing root rot. but i would have to say those are the most simple and easiest to fix issues. Hygrozyme and Subculture DO work! i have recently added then both and watched the change over a 2 week period. Just keep AS much air in the res as you can and keep the temps constant. even if the constant is 80F and you think it is high. try adding one of those and keep it constant!


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## gvega187 (Oct 12, 2008)

water above 75 degrees can not hold oxygen worth a damn...except mebe at lower elevations. 

no DO in your res makes easy habitat livings for u fungi and algae.

Get 900 airstones and keep res somewhat cool. Don't let light hit it either.

air stones are cheapest way to add DO to your water. Also h2o2 and pump waterfalls (draining fast into your res)


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## gvega187 (Oct 12, 2008)

i agrees hygrozyme and subcultures does work. Do not wait for your roots to rot off first though or it will take long tome for roots to recover. When your res looks like your toilet throw in the hygrozme asap.


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 13, 2008)

gvega187 said:


> i agrees hygrozyme and subcultures does work. Do not wait for your roots to rot off first though or it will take long tome for roots to recover. When your res looks like your toilet throw in the hygrozme asap.


I have chunks of crap floating in my res, what do I do?.. that would be bad

I've been using that anti algae stuff for garden ponds from walmart. 4 or 5 drops a week in a 5 gallon res kills it all off. I also add h2o2 every few days, but not enough to keep algae at bay. there aren't any health issues that I know of using the drops. it is safe for gardens outside, and no warning labels, so why not?


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 13, 2008)

Wouldnt use anything from walmart if i were you. And you must be getting light in your res


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 13, 2008)

Hydrokronics said:


> Wouldnt use anything from walmart if i were you. And you must be getting light in your res


yea, that's an issue I'll have fixed for my next grow. another thing, don't use clear tubing. algae grows inside it and it's imposable to clean. it gets really stubborn inside there. I use black now, and it seems to stay very clean.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 14, 2008)

yea. you dont want your nute soltion to see light at any piont. due to the nutes in it, it will grow algae real fast.


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## YaK (Oct 14, 2008)

Hydrokronics said:


> yea. you dont want your nute soltion to see light at any piont. due to the nutes in it, it will grow algae real fast.


not always... I've flowered these plants like this for 10 weeks now, roots and res exposed to light the whole time and havent had any problems. I use GH 3 part nutrients and h202 though, not sure if that's what makes the difference. It could be a very different story if I was using organic nutes.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 14, 2008)

the h202 kills all the algae before it can form and cause i problem


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## bongrippinbob (Oct 14, 2008)

But it also kills off all the beneficial bacteria as well.


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 14, 2008)

bongrippinbob said:


> But it also kills off all the beneficial bacteria as well.


true. so I guess the best way to go about it is to keep light away from the water the best you can, then only use as much h2o2 as you need to prevent any algae from growing.


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## YaK (Oct 14, 2008)

lorenzo08 said:


> true. so I guess the best way to go about it is to keep light away from the water the best you can, then only use as much h2o2 as you need to prevent any algae from growing.


I believe that beneficial bacteria are for organic nutrient grows.

if you're not dealing with organics... then beneficial bacteria is neither here nor there.. h202 kills all the undesireables.

I switched to this because of Al B.... and i'm very glad I did, the more simple everything is, the easier my life is.


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## bongrippinbob (Oct 14, 2008)

Beneficial bacteria are good for both chemical and organic growing. Saying they are only useful for organic growing is like saying exercising is only good if you are eating healthy. Exercise is good for you no matter what you are eating, just like the beneficail bacteria are good no matter what you are growing with, organic, chemical, hydro, soil , etc.

Instead of using the H2O2, try using Sub Culture. It will kill off the bad stuff, but actually adds good stuff to the water as well.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 14, 2008)

bongrippinbob said:


> Beneficial bacteria are good for both chemical and organic growing. Saying they are only useful for organic growing is like saying exercising is only good if you are eating healthy. Exercise is good for you no matter what you are eating, just like the beneficail bacteria are good no matter what you are growing with, organic, chemical, hydro, soil , etc.
> 
> Instead of using the H2O2, try using Sub Culture. It will kill off the bad stuff, but actually adds good stuff to the water as well.


 

he is right. as much as i respect Al. B cause he is right about alot of things... I would go for the sub-culture. I works great. but you have to use one or the other you cant put h2o2 in a solution that has sub-culture.


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## YaK (Oct 14, 2008)

bongrippinbob said:


> Beneficial bacteria are good for both chemical and organic growing. Saying they are only useful for organic growing is like saying exercising is only good if you are eating healthy. Exercise is good for you no matter what you are eating, just like the beneficail bacteria are good no matter what you are growing with, organic, chemical, hydro, soil , etc.
> 
> Instead of using the H2O2, try using Sub Culture. It will kill off the bad stuff, but actually adds good stuff to the water as well.


I'm no expert, by any means.... I'm just saying what works for me, or better yet, what HAS worked for me so far. I got an excellent harvest w/out beneficial bacteria... I dont know what subculture costs, I just know that simplicity is what I need to keep everything under control as best as I can. simply put, I want the most simple application possible.

I've had my fair share of trial and error, and.... now that I have something that works from start to finish, I'm a bit sketchy on trying something new. I've had many failures, (most due to inexperience, and a few due to stupidity) and I'm not saying that subculture isnt awesome... I'm just saying that I'm too chicken to try anything other than what I've stumbled upon that is working for me now.

I never mean for any of my posts to be taken as gospel... just a little insight to my brief experience. The same way that I would disuade any beginner from dumping molasses into his rez... yeah, some have done it with fine results... but it fucked me up, not just once... but twice (the stupid part).

I will read up about subculture, but... root rot is something that I never want to mess with again, it's been a losing battle for me most of the time. to me, h202 is my savior.


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 14, 2008)

YaK said:


> I'm no expert, by any means.... I'm just saying what works for me, or better yet, what HAS worked for me so far. I got an excellent harvest w/out beneficial bacteria... I dont know what subculture costs, I just know that simplicity is what I need to keep everything under control as best as I can. simply put, I want the most simple application possible.


I vote for this. subculture might work wonderfully and have slightly better results, but h2o2 is simpler and cheaper. do what works best for you.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 14, 2008)

agreed. I def understand where you are coming from yak. Not only do i understand it but i respect it. You are absolutly right on the situation. I feel the same way with subculture. I found somthing that works and am afraid to change in fear of another collapse due to my error. And like you I have seen the nasty sugar ball that gets created by too much mollases! Unfurtunatly I wouldnt be as knowledgable as I am without the expirience. But all in all i think that all of use prove that is many great ways to tackle the root rot issue. 

Also what is you method for H2o2. I wiould def love to try on a separate grow or sep rez and see the dif if there is one. I also use GH flora series and would love to know you mixture! Thanks again for your time


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## YaK (Oct 14, 2008)

Hydrokronics said:


> agreed. I def understand where you are coming from yak. Not only do i understand it but i respect it. You are absolutly right on the situation. I feel the same way with subculture. I found somthing that works and am afraid to change in fear of another collapse due to my error. And like you I have seen the nasty sugar ball that gets created by too much mollases! Unfurtunatly I wouldnt be as knowledgable as I am without the expirience. But all in all i think that all of use prove that is many great ways to tackle the root rot issue.
> 
> Also what is you method for H2o2. I wiould def love to try on a separate grow or sep rez and see the dif if there is one. I also use GH flora series and would love to know you mixture! Thanks again for your time


no prob! my mixture consists of .... GH Flora, micro, and grow, I typically use them at about 2/3's to 3/4 strength, i have never used them full strength. I also add SM90... a while back someone suggested that it'd help prevent root rot, and I just really like the smell of it, it's like an oil. I like the stuff, and it's not too expensive, so I use it. last but not least, I use h2o2 @ 1 tsp per gallon when I do a res change, then, every 3 days, I add it at 1.7ml per gallon.

that's it. super simple, and I could probably do without the SM90.... but I f'n love the smell of it! weak ass reason to use it I know... but ... I dont care.

One more thing, flood and drain is WAY more forgiving of res temps than aero/nft is! I thought I lost my plants to rott, I put them in flood and drain, and all is well. Strange, and great. 


this is a great thread, and winter is coming, thank GOD!


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## bongrippinbob (Oct 14, 2008)

If you call adding something every 3 days easy, than you would love the Sub Culture. You only add it during your res change, and you're done.

If you never change your growing methods, or try something new, you will never get better. You will keep acheiving the same results over and over again. And while they may seem great now, with a little tweak here and a change there, things could be way better and much easier.


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## robdogg (Oct 14, 2008)

ive been reading all the posts about water temp and how to keep it cool, i was wondering how dry ice would work, i thought it might be a good solutuion becuase it gives off CO2 and would feed the plant. im not sure... it was just an idea, what do you guys think


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 15, 2008)

YaK said:


> no prob! my mixture consists of .... GH Flora, micro, and grow, I typically use them at about 2/3's to 3/4 strength, i have never used them full strength. I also add SM90... a while back someone suggested that it'd help prevent root rot, and I just really like the smell of it, it's like an oil. I like the stuff, and it's not too expensive, so I use it. last but not least, I use h2o2 @ 1 tsp per gallon when I do a res change, then, every 3 days, I add it at 1.7ml per gallon. that's it. super simple, and I could probably do without the SM90.... but I f'n love the smell of it! weak ass reason to use it I know... but ... I dont care.
> 
> One more thing, flood and drain is WAY more forgiving of res temps than aero/nft is! I thought I lost my plants to rott, I put them in flood and drain, and all is well. Strange, and great.
> 
> ...


 
Cool, thanks yak. i am def going to eventually try things like this . I actually use a DWC stand alone bucket system. the res is recirculating so i think the h2o2 method would work well in it. I had never heard of SM90 and will have to check it out. One other thing though..... do you use store bought H2o2 or do you buy the 49% horticulture kind from shops?


.......THANK GOD FOR WINTER IS RIGHT


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 15, 2008)

here in pa (not sure if it's different elsewhere) my local grow shop doesn't carry anything over 35%. he said 35% is food grade and it's the strongest he can sell without special licensing. just a quick bit of info.

I've been told it would be cheaper for me to buy 35% h2o2 and use less of it at a time, but I've just been buying a bottle or 2 a month of 3%, and adding about 3tsp to a 5 gallon res every few days. $2 a month from any grocery store, rather then $12 from a grow shop probably once a year. actually.. I just did a really rough calculation, and it turned out to be the same price either way. you use 11.6 times as much with the 3%, but the price turns out to be very close in the end either way you go.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 15, 2008)

does the 3% have the same effects thogh as the 35% or since you are using more does it level out?


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 15, 2008)

Hydrokronics said:


> does the 3% have the same effects thogh as the 35% or since you are using more does it level out?


I think the filler is just water. dilute 35% h2o2 with water 10 to 1 and you have 3%. buying normal 3% has been working for me and works for many others. the price difference was the main selling point for the guy at the grow shop, but my rough figures show it's the same price in the end. maybe someone else can point out a benefit, but right now, I don't see any difference between using 3% and 35%.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 15, 2008)

Yea. thats kinda what i figured. It is much easier to get froma drug store then having to go all the way to a local shop. not to mention that if it is the same exact thing and does the trick just as well then there is no reason to get the "fancy" H2o2


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 15, 2008)

maybe someone out there knows a benefit to using the horticulture h2o2 cause i would love to know


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 15, 2008)

Hydrokronics said:


> maybe someone out there knows a benefit to using the horticulture h2o2 cause i would love to know


yeah, maybe a pro knows the answer for sure. I might be slightly out of it today, my apologies if I am. a tooth is killing me.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 15, 2008)

did you get it taken out?


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 15, 2008)

Hydrokronics said:


> did you get it taken out?


no, it happens now and then. usually not bad, but this time it must be a deeper nerve because nothing is helping. I'll be ok. I'm just wondering if you can get drunk off anbesol. my eyes are heavy today.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 15, 2008)

haha probly can. good luck with that man i hope that shit stops hurting.


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 15, 2008)

Hydrokronics said:


> haha probly can. good luck with that man i hope that shit stops hurting.


thank you. now back on topic before someone yells. lol


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 15, 2008)

haha yea. Actually this is kinda hijacking but do u know anything about co2 systems (regulators and tanks)?


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## lorenzo08 (Oct 15, 2008)

Hydrokronics said:


> haha yea. Actually this is kinda hijacking but do u know anything about co2 systems (regulators and tanks)?


thread hijacker! stone him!

don't know a thing about it. a lot of the pro's left this forum a little while back, but someone should know if you post a new thread for it. or google it, maybe there's a tutorial on it. I'm sure you can empty a tank pretty fast if it's not done right.

btw, I think I finally used enough anbesol, now I might pass out at work. or maybe it's because I'm laying off the caffeine today.

water temps.. mine has been around 75f for the past few months. no root rot at all in ebb and flow, and h2o2 keeps the res clear. 75 isn't so bad.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 15, 2008)

Its seems like everytime i think the weather is turning colder we get a fucking heat wave in the middle of october. I lowered the lights since the temps have been dropping and i could afford the temp increase. and as soon as i did, it was 83F outside and my temps shot up to 86F in the room and 80.8F res. which really sucks but im using subculture and hygrozyme so for all the money i spent on those THEY BETTER BE protecting me from exactly this situation. Or i guess we will find out. Thanks for the help bro


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## YaK (Oct 16, 2008)

bongrippinbob said:


> If you call adding something every 3 days easy, than you would love the Sub Culture. You only add it during your res change, and you're done.
> 
> If you never change your growing methods, or try something new, you will never get better. You will keep acheiving the same results over and over again. And while they may seem great now, with a little tweak here and a change there, things could be way better and much easier.


you are right, and I will try it. Fall is here though and temps are lowering and coming back around to safe levels. Plus, I have two chillers. When the temp warms up again, I will use Sub Culture in one of my systems and see how it goes. 

adding h2o2 every 3rd of 4th day is no biggie, I spend maybe 5 minutes in my plant area a day, picking any dead leaves up, checking PH, and looking for pests, it takes all of 30 seconds to throw a shot glass of hydrogen peroxide in. I'm willing to try new things to tweak my system for the better. Thanks for that advice, and moreover, thanks for putting it so eloquently.



Hydrokronics said:


> Cool, thanks yak. i am def going to eventually try things like this . I actually use a DWC stand alone bucket system. the res is recirculating so i think the h2o2 method would work well in it. I had never heard of SM90 and will have to check it out. One other thing though..... do you use store bought H2o2 or do you buy the 49% horticulture kind from shops?
> 
> 
> .......THANK GOD FOR WINTER IS RIGHT


I use 35% h2o2, I get it from bghydro dot com for 30 bucks a gallon... its called Oxy Blast. I'd rather have 50 % , but i cant seem to find it online. The local hydro shop doesnt carry any h2o2, they always want to sell me this stuff that comes in a vile that they call "subdue" . I tried it, but my plants were too far gone for it to win the battle.


preventative maintenance is the way to go... for sure, be it h2o2 or subculture or hygrozyme (fuckin expensive) 



oh yeah, I have three seven foot plants with two weeks left, I changed the water, and unplugged the pumps so they wouldnt be pumping dry while I cleaned and changed the water.... I filled the water, added nutes, adjusted PH... yadda yadda yadda, and FORGOT to plug the pumps back in.

woke up to all of the leaves on all 3 plants drooping. shit.

i plugged the pumps back in.. but it's not looking too good.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 16, 2008)

awww im so sorry bro! that is such a fucking blower. Its those little absent minded mistakes that make a dramatic impact. hopfully you can revive them and things will get better


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## gvega187 (Oct 18, 2008)

yep i have done that one before. 

I have accepted that these things will inevitably happen being a stoner.

I just remind myself to test the entire system after a flush. I never unplug my pump other than that. 

in the future it might be nice to try a more absorbent media. If you ARE using an absorbent media like rockwool your roots may not be totally fried.


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## bongrippinbob (Oct 19, 2008)

Or you can do what I do. I always forget shit, so I will duct tape a note like on my tv, or the cab, or somewhere I can't miss it, telling me what I need to do. It sounds stupid, but it will keep you from forgetting something important.


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## jackhammer (Oct 19, 2008)

I'm a newb so I don't know shit! All I can do is go by what my system is doing. First of all is the plant. PPP is the plant of choice (PPP is a tropical So. African plant). I chose it for the forgiving nature and high yield. The plant in the pic is a clone from a plant that was outside during the heat of the summer. 105 degree days were the norm and it took a couple of 110+ days with no negative effects. In fact this plant seems to like the extreme heat.

I cant wait for cooler outside temps because Im having a hell of a time keeping the room at a constant 88 degrees (average annual temp of Durban So. Africa, Maui, and Ventura Ca.). My room temp averages 88-95 degrees. Water temp is at 94-95 degrees. I have no clue as to why the water temps are warmer than the room temps other than it takes the water longer to cool than the air temps and my room is a little too warm. However, as long as the plants like the warm temps I may rethink the 88 degrees that I want to keep the room at. I cant afford a chiller but it doesn't appear that I need one. This plant is three weeks into the DWC system and seems to be doing fine. See the b4 and after pic.

I also treat my water with aquarium chemicals. The algae control is safe for aquatic plants and seems to be doing the job. 
There is no green or brown algae growing on the top of my pots. The one question that I have though is that the algae control might be killing the beneficial fungi that I added. I use Dr. Hornby's Piranha.

I have a 30gal DWC system. The algae control calls for 1ml to 12 gallons. I use 2ml to 30 gal.


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## Microracer87 (Oct 19, 2008)

Nice roots.. I thought I might have seen some light burn around the edges of acouple leaves... whats your lighting and how far away


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## jackhammer (Oct 19, 2008)

Thanks for the comp.
I have a growzilla. 2000w at about three ft above the plants. The temps of the top of the plants are at 92 degrees.
the "tip burn" is left overs from the first week. I had a potassium deficency going on. some of the lower leaves are scarred and are going to be clipped off today.

LOL I feel like I just got my picture taken and I have a nose hair sticking out. I guess I should have clipped the crap leaves off before I posted the pics


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## bongrippinbob (Oct 19, 2008)

Hey Jack, just so you know, you will probably get a better yeild with one light at a decent temp than you will with 2000watts at 95 degree. When they bud, they will have whispy, airy buds due to the heat. Your roots look real brown too when they should be white. This is probably from the heat as well.

If there is no light getting in your res, there should be no algae growing in there anyway, so stop using that crappy aquarium stuff. 

Are you sure there was deficiency and its not nute burn? Is the 1900 and something the PPM reading? If it is, I would suggest bringing it down some. Especially with the temps being so hot.

I would seriously suggest getting your temps down. Just because Africa is hot doesn't mean that these plants want 100degree temps. The people there live just fine, but I'm sure they too would love some 80degree temps. Same with the plant. After about 90degrees, growth slows considerably, and after 100degrees, it pretty much stops. Think about it like this, how active are you on a 90degree day? Not very. How active are you on a 75degree day? Much more. This is how the plants work as well. Yes they will grow at 90degrees, but not nearly as well as they would down around 75-80 degrees.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 19, 2008)

I would have to agree with bob here. The roots are def suffering from rot because of the temps. You need to do something about this before flower or you will see some damage. If the temps are constant 90's what is it like at night? Also you could either invest in a chiller because it will pay off. Or you should do as bob says and take one of those bulbs out for a while. What is you ventilation like? Do you have many fans in the room? If you dont that is a must. you should have a bunch of fans around and atleast one blowing on and in your res. It will cool it down a little. And STOP using the aquarium stuff. It might be "safe" for plants but is not "good" for them and you dont want that stuff in your girls. I know you said you use piranha but there are two methods you could try to help out. you can add a tsp spoon of h2o2 to every gallon in the res and stop with everything but the floraseries OR you could try Hygrozyme and/or GH Subculture. Both will help but it has to be one or the other. You cant do both because of the fact the h2o2 kills the beneficial bacteria. Other then the root issue everything looks good and you should keep it up! With just a couple minor adjustments, things will be much better. good luck


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## jackhammer (Oct 19, 2008)

*Thanks Hydrokronics and Bongrippnbob I really do appreciate the advice so dont take this the wrong way.*

*First of all look at the pics in my original post. The spindly plant pic was three weeks ago after transplant into the DWC system. As you can see the plant is growing just fine. If youre trying to tell me that it would be even bigger if it was cooler in my room and res then I might have to consider cooling my room down a bit.*



*SecondThe roots are brown due to the nutes staining them. You are right as to the white roots and there are some but the roots are stained. I did back off on the nutes a bit. I was putting a pre-made refill solution into my res but it seems that with the high heat I lose more water that what might be normal. I now add two parts water and one part refill solution to my res and the PPM is down to 1770. But again all the plants are healthy and looking good at this point.*

*As for the K deficiency, I looked up a plant disease thread on another site and the pics under the K deficiency were a dead ringer for what I hadadded some micro nutes and bingonice green leaves ever since.*



*The aquarium stuff is a pretreatment as this is a re-circulating DWC system. I dont change the water or nutes but add what has been used by the plants when I add refill solution to my res. How do I know what has been used by my plants you askRead this and I am basing my grow on it.*



*spscc.org*

*§ Nutrient Management in Recirculating Hydroponic Culture
Bruce Bugbee 
Presented at the South Pacific Soil-less Culture Conference 
Feb 11, 2003 in Palmerston North, New Zealand *

*The water treatment is a (hopefully) one time thing and should not have to be used again. But I must ask youWhat do you think is wrong with adding it to the water and what do you base it on. The aquarium treatment is safe and I could have safely drank the water before I added nutes to it. So Im not quite sure as to why you wouldnt want to do what ever you could to stop algae growth. As I mentioned in my original post the top surface of the hydroton in the pots is where you will usually find algae growth and then it moves deeper into the system.*

*I know conventional wisdom is lacking from my grow but it is what it is and so far I see no reason to change. *

*I would like it a little bit cooler in the room just because the ideal temp for my plant is 88degrees. I picked the genetics specifically because I live in a hot climate and I wanted to try a Sativa.*



*I would also agree that there is a bit of tip burn and I have moved up my light a bit. The bulbs are a 1000w Agrosun Gold MH and a 1000w Eye Hortilux Super HPS. The girls are about 12 to 16 inches high and are pretty bushy with lots of colas due to topping. Some of the colas are going to be clones in about 21 days.*

*Do you really think my buds are going to be FD up due to the heat? AgainIm a newb and dont know shit so I am keeping an open mind on this. I will keep you posted as to the progress and will keep my eyes on the girls. Im putting them into flower tonight.*

*I hope I don't come off as an ass hole I really do appreciate your advice.*


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## jackhammer (Oct 19, 2008)

I just wanted to show the growzilla and its venting. It's vented by it's self. I mean it gets it's own air. I do think I need to vent the room a little better.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 19, 2008)

You should df change out that 4inch ducting for 6inch. it will make a large difference. Also the knodes that are tops is new growth not colas. colas are top buds. And no you dont sound like an asshole but you def should just stop using the aquarium shit. dont you think if it orked wll there would be a bunch of people on here saying "YEA they are great" but thats not the case. they ad unnessary chemicals to your plants which you will later on consume. If you are really concerned about "pre-treatment" then check out subculture. it will help you will high temps. And I dont mean to be an asshole when i say this but those root are hurting! even if they are stained, they are not healthy. the plants look good but the roots dont. You might want to look into putting as much air as you Possibly can into your res. If this mean getting a new pump then do it. 

Yes, if you dont do something about mid 90's temps there will be a problem. Also you should get more fans asap. You should blow one right on your res. Evaporation will happen faster so you will need to top off more often. I hope i can help by giving you tips that i was givin when i was in the same situation as you are. Just keep it going and good luck


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## jackhammer (Oct 19, 2008)

Thanks Hydro I know I could use a nother fan and will get an extra one on the res also tomorrow. I'll do what I can to get the temps down. Thank god for winter lol


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 19, 2008)

Amen bro. Winter is gonn make this sooo much nicer for me. I thought you might wanna look at this as well. CO2 would really help you situation. Im pretty sure it has been all but proven that co2 helps high res temps. not only would it help your res but your whole enviorment would love it. I have read that if the co2 is around 1500ppm in the air the temps can maintain mid 90's with great success. alot of people might argue and say aother wise but if you check out that video you will see his expirement and i have read it in a few books. Good luck with everything man +rep

Co2/Temp experiment - Cannabis Culture Forums

Raising the Temperature Bar - Cannabis Culture Forums


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## jackhammer (Oct 20, 2008)

Thats the thing...Co2 was going to be bought before a water chiller. I know the temps can be a little higher with Co2. looks like I'm of to the welding supply place today to pick up a tank and regulator.


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## Hydrokronics (Oct 20, 2008)

good call. that will def help you situation and it would be a better investment then the chiller imo. For a cheaper alternative you should check this out aswell

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/121920-diy-co2-bucket-system.html

Not even close to the same amount of CO2 but if you run the line from this system into your res, you will see a slight change. Try it, it wont hurt.


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## bongrippinbob (Oct 20, 2008)

You need more than just a tank a reg. You need a solenoid, flow meter, etc. You can buy then entire set up for like $130 online. I was pricing them at welding places, and it will cost more than that to buy the pieces seperate and put it together.

And even with Co2, you don't want you temps much higher, if any, than 90degrees, and that is air temps. WIth your res, running C02, and using SubCulture or something, you can get away with like 85degree temps, but I don't suggest any higher than this. 

If your temps get up higher than 90degrees, you need to seal up your room and buy an a/c unit. Also, be careful with humidity when you are running Co2. You have to turn off your exhaust fans to run Co2, which is going to cause your temps to get even higher. If they are 90 with the exhaust on, they are going to shoot well over 100degrees very quickly.

I wouldn't suggest getting the Co2. I would suggest spending the money to get your temps down to a workable level. No matter what you do, plants will not perform like they should at 90-100 degrees. Spend the $150 on a nice 700cfm Can Fan, and this will bring your temps down to a decent level.


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## topfuel29 (Oct 29, 2008)

CO2 is the way to go. 30% - 100% increase in growth.
If want to get a decent CO2 monitor/controller ($300) and selenoid valve $150 plus about $120 tank.

I just borrowed a CO2 monitor from a friend and experimented with
Yeast and Sugar
The air in my room was right around 300ppm with-out any CO2 being added.
1-gallon water
2-pounds of simple sugar (corn sugar or cane sugar)
1/4 tsp. Yeast (preferably Bear Yeast, Lager Yeast) produces more CO2
Mixture lasts about 7 to 10 days.
Produces about 1400ppm at peak. In a 20 Square Foot Area.
Make sure to run the CO2 gas through a bubble counter, and then to your plants. You want about 2 bubbles per-second. Coming from a 1/4 inch tube. Think of the CO2 as a water-Fall falling on your plants. I put the CO2 hose so it's above my Plants.
Costs about 9 dollars per month to run.



10-15-2008
10:00 PM - 944ppm Air Temp 74F Water Temp 70F
10-16-2008
04:30 AM - 1403ppm Air Temp 84F -Venting every 6 hours for 1/2 hour. Water Temp 72F
05:30 AM - 885ppm Air Temp 73.4F Water Temp 68F


12:30 AM - 1439ppm Air Temp 81.5F - Water Temp 74F
I use bubbleponics. The air bubbles in the nute solution cool it down to some degree, just as you would cool some hot coffee by blowing on it.
What ever system you use you could get a fish tank air pump I bought a double air pump at wal-mart $12.00 and air pump hose $2.00. The largest AIR-STONE you can find and put it in your nute solution, The Temp is gonna down probly 4 - 5 Deg. F.


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## Bullethead21 (Nov 8, 2008)

I have 3 6 inch airstones all with thre own pump. I am about to add a 4 foot flex airstone hose type thats suppose to be awsome. Adding irstone has never brought my tank res temps down. AN its bubbling like mad crazy in there. Granting I use HID lighting which is a factor in istelf, but still, airstones are not gonna bring down tank temps IMHO, not enough to make a difference with someone who is high by like 10 degrees or more in tank temps temps.....

On the other hand..having to many airstones is AWSOME for the plant roots and there growth and overall well being, so the more the airstones the better!!!! In DWC systems and Bubblers its almost a must to have many airstones if you wants to grow fast and have aswome healthy roots. That and water temp in the tank is key....mixing thr nutes is a no brainer for the most part.


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## bongrippinbob (Nov 8, 2008)

Bullethead21 said:


> I have 3 6 inch airstones all with thre own pump. I am about to add a 4 foot flex airstone hose type thats suppose to be awsome. Adding irstone has never brought my tank res temps down. AN its bubbling like mad crazy in there. Granting I use HID lighting which is a factor in istelf, but still, airstones are not gonna bring down tank temps IMHO, not enough to make a difference with someone who is high by like 10 degrees or more in tank temps temps.....
> 
> On the other hand..having to many airstones is AWSOME for the plant roots and there growth and overall well being, so the more the airstones the better!!!! In DWC systems and Bubblers its almost a must to have many airstones if you wants to grow fast and have aswome healthy roots. That and water temp in the tank is key....mixing thr nutes is a no brainer for the most part.


Are you air pumps in the grow room too? This will make them pump the same temp air as the room into your res, and this will not let it cool.

If you have them outside the grow space, preferably in a totally different room, the pumps will be pulling in cooler air and this will cool your res. The air has to come from some where, and if its from a cold place, the air going in will be cold.


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## Hydrokronics (Nov 8, 2008)

how long can i run my air lines from my pump to my res without loosing pressure? thanks by the way


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## topfuel29 (Nov 9, 2008)

bongrippinbob said:


> Are you air pumps in the grow room too? This will make them pump the same temp air as the room into your res, and this will not let it cool.
> 
> If you have them outside the grow space, preferably in a totally different room, the pumps will be pulling in cooler air and this will cool your res. The air has to come from some where, and if its from a cold place, the air going in will be cold.


I never though of that, could be why my Res. temp is a little cooler than the grow room air temp. Makes perfect sense.


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## Earl (Nov 9, 2008)

Hydrokronics said:


> how long can i run my air lines from my pump to my res without loosing pressure? thanks by the way


A long way.

If you put aior in the tube
it has to come out wherever it can.

How long of a hose does your garage use to fill your tires ?


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## Hydrokronics (Nov 9, 2008)

True. But i guess as long as there are no leaks then there is no reason why the air wouldnt travel forever.


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## Bullethead21 (Nov 9, 2008)

I wouldnt go more than 6 t 7 ft with air hose unless you got some kinda comercial grade airpump. After 6 to 7 ft you start to loose spme psi I assure you. I have tested this part extensivly and tried about every combo possible including a "air rail", Ive tried to tee them off and cheat htat way also. Didnt get near as much air.

You want the air tubes going to airstones to be as short as possible (keep maint. in mind when decideing lenght of air hose from pump to airstone).

I use 1 standard air pump to each airstone which is 6 inches long each. I have a total of 4 air pumps and 4 airstones which covers each net pot giving it PLENTY of nice bubbly air/water(6 pot planter).

This works very well though if I did it over again I would have tried one of the 70 to 80 dollar 4 port comercial air pumps..either way as long as you get he PSI you need and amount of airstones to make sure each plant is getting PLENTY of air bubbles, then your covered!

Peace!


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## thebeeschoice (May 29, 2012)

Keeping the res cool:

in my water res I use a seperate pump that is hooked up to an old transmission cooler that has 2 computer fans tiewraped to it.


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