# I NEED HELP POSTE 5 TIMES CANT SOLVE THE PROBLEM.pics



## panta (Nov 3, 2008)

12 days old euphoria duch passion,got also purple haze same age same problem it started 4 days ago,its not the soil i grown in this soil many strains ph 6.5 n-p-k 14-16-18 0.7kg/m3 thats the soil called seedling german brand,ph water 6.5,no nutes,temp day 25c temp night 21c,good ventilation,this shit is spreding fast i flushed a few plants and it didnt stop tryed some fugicide it didnt help,im posted this 5 times and still cant figure it out,if theres someone whit knowlege of what this can be,im thinking some kinda disease


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## panta (Nov 3, 2008)

humidity 40-45%


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## burlingo (Nov 3, 2008)

sure the n-p-k isn't too much for a seedling?


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## burlingo (Nov 3, 2008)

if you flush, do it until water runs clear


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## tusseltussel (Nov 3, 2008)

lookin a lil wet friend

roots need o2

edit: what soil is that, looks heavy


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## k|ng18 (Nov 3, 2008)

I'd agree that soil looks as if it's been over watered...is that pic taken after the flushing?


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## ferrotype (Nov 4, 2008)

Thats exactly what my seedlings looked like when I first tried to grow...
oh so long ago...

I was overwatering, and the soil was so dense and heavy, it couldnt drain properly, and then my plants showed thier pain. - they weren't getting enough Co2 and weren't producing any O2..

I changed my soil to a 50/50 suculent mix and miracle grow moisture control, and things have been great now...

We also have a nice grow room built for total atmospheric control.

Maybe you should start your seedlings in Rockwool cubes..
We have found this to be the best... for us anyway.
When ready... we just drop the cubes into our growing medium.


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## tusseltussel (Nov 4, 2008)

Roots require Oxygen to breathe and low levels are the main cause of almost all root diseases. Both soil and hydroponic plants often fall prey to the same syndrome although it is rarely recognized as what it really is. Hydroponic crops often fail due to "root rot" and soil crops succumb to "over watering." The real cause of both these problems is a shortage of Oxygen at the root zone. In a soil system the soil consists of particles, a film of water on the particles and air spaces between the particles. When too much water is put into the soil the air spaces fill with liquid. The roots will quickly use up what Oxygen is dissolved in the water, if they haven't drunk enough of the liquid to allow air back in to the soil spaces they will stop working. In this situation roots will start dying within twenty-four hours. As the roots die the plants ability to drink water and nutrients will decrease, this will cause symptoms of nutrient deficiencies (mostly pale, slow, weak growth), and strangely they will start to wilt like they don't have enough water. It is easy to make a fatal mistake at this point and add more water.


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## Twistyman (Nov 4, 2008)

*I don't nute at all at that age...... I also like a 50-50% promix soil for good drainage...luck..*


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## panta (Nov 4, 2008)

i grown in this soil 80 plants 20 seeds indoor mix 20 seeds outdoor mix,afghani 10 seeds,early skunk,northern lights and skunk #1 all the same,that was 6 months ago had no problems,i didnt overwater,i always wait for the cup to get light when i lift it and the soil is dry when i stick my finger in it,the soil is wet on the pics thats couse i took them the day when i flushed,i put an airstone for an hour in the water right before i water my plants,and i planted 2 seeds in rockwool cubes a day ago just to make sure to see how they grow but that gonna be atlest 12 day for me to see the reults couse all my plants grow healthy for the fist 8 days and then this starts some sooner some later, but i dont think its the soil couse i been growing in it in the past and everything was great,and i asked the people at the store where i bought it they said that its not strong it cant hurt your plants i told them im growing tomatos,so they gave me some fugicide and i tryed that but it didnt work,i dont know what else to do my plants are dying i had 20 now i got 17 like this in 10 days its gona be 3 left.i got pics of the roots


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## panta (Nov 4, 2008)

if its a disease how can i figure which one and then to treat it


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## Bamstone (Nov 4, 2008)

For what it's worth, I have had trouble starting DP Blueberry and a few other strains in the soil I nomally use with great success (Fox Farms Ocean Forest). My plants looked just like yours, stalled and unhealthy. 

I then tried starting them in 50% Miracle Grow Seed Starting Mix (mostly spagnum peat) combined with 50% Ocean Forrest, and that did the trick - no more problems.
Once they become healthy seedlings I repot them into FFOF and they do great.


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## tusseltussel (Nov 4, 2008)

i still think its the soil not draining well.. every plant ive ever seen that looked like that was bcause the soil was to wet... i woulld pot em up in somthing lighter.... i made brownies that look like your soil mmmmmmm brownies


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## natmoon (Nov 4, 2008)

Its quite clearly overwatering,no perlite,soil is to strong for seedlings


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## Budsworth (Nov 4, 2008)

natmoon said:


> Its quite clearly overwatering,no perlite,soil is to strong for seedlings


 I agree, looks like the soil is burning the leaves.


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## panta (Nov 4, 2008)

this doesnt make sense all those plants and no problem and how can it be that now its to strong for seedling,but im gonna listen to your advice and tomorow ill transplant in some other soil,since i dont live in usa what kind of a soil should i look for when i ask the clerk at the store and should i shake this old soil from the roots when i transplant as they are not to strong its all falling apart as i pull it from the container or should i just transplant normal the whole thing like in the pics


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## natmoon (Nov 4, 2008)

panta said:


> this doesnt make sense all those plants and no problem and how can it be that now its to strong for seedling,but im gonna listen to your advice and tomorow ill transplant in some other soil,since i dont live in usa what kind of a soil should i look for when i ask the clerk at the store and should i shake this old soil from the roots when i transplant as they are not to strong its all falling apart as i pull it from the container or should i just transplant normal the whole thing like in the pics


Just because some soil is out of the same bag or even the same brand one bag can easily be stronger than another.

Always empty the whole bag out and mix it well by hand and if you want my advice add perlite at 3 pots perlite to 7 of pure soil mix.
I always add water crystals as well as per the exact kind that you have purchased instructions.

IMO never use any soil that has slow release nutes in it for seedlings as this can easily nute burn them especially if you have accidentally over watered them.
Lift the whole plant up and just soak it in some room temp clean water in a large bowl until the soil has fell away carefully and slowly then simply replant it in your new soil carefully.
Best of luck with it


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## panta (Nov 4, 2008)

thanks,tomorow il try that


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## ferrotype (Nov 5, 2008)

panta said:


> this doesnt make sense all those plants and no problem and how can it be that now its to strong for seedling,but im gonna listen to your advice and tomorow ill transplant in some other soil,since i dont live in usa what kind of a soil should i look for when i ask the clerk at the store and should i shake this old soil from the roots when i transplant as they are not to strong its all falling apart as i pull it from the container or should i just transplant normal the whole thing like in the pics


i wouldnt shake the plants...
remember - dont shake babies!!
gently remove soil with a little water..
ask your clerk for succulent mix.. has LOTS of good drainage stuff in it...
and mix 50/50 with some other soil than what you are currently using.

thats what has worked for me anyway.


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## Tamzi (Nov 5, 2008)

does not look like fugi attack.

personaly i think its strain and the soil. the soil looks very dark ( compost type look) and i bet when you smell that soil it has a sweetish aroma. i would first repot with some perlite,sand etc, etc, break up that soil abit more and add some loose structure too it. its a heavy compost type soil too i would say.

also look at everything else. bottles used for watering, clean grow area, water correct, soil ph, 

you may have grown with this soil before and found good results, that could depend on where seeds came from plant wise. but i would look into soil that looks like a nuet problem. as for soil look for a seedling/cutting type medium


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## panta (Nov 5, 2008)

i just transplanted in some new soil i got from the store it has almost half the nutes compared to the former iv been using,0.5 kg/m3 and 15% perlite,im gonna post pics after few days to see the results,


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## panta (Nov 6, 2008)

i did transplant ,my plants look alot worse than yesterday the the leaves have dryed more and they are wilting its probably not the soil what can i do now


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## panta (Nov 6, 2008)

il post pics in half an hour


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## panta (Nov 6, 2008)

pic after the transplant


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## panta (Nov 6, 2008)

different pics


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## natmoon (Nov 6, 2008)

Hopefully within a week you will see them start to pick up nicely.
Best of luck


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## tusseltussel (Nov 6, 2008)

that looks like some good soil ya got now a little late but was gonna say if you let it dry out significantly the soil would have held together a lil more but will always fall apart with so little rootage in their but anyhoo its lookin good i think it will pieck up too give it a week to recover and it should pull through


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## panta (Nov 6, 2008)

il post after 4-5 days if they stay alive


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## thelastpirate (Nov 9, 2008)

panta said:


> if its a disease how can i figure which one and then to treat it


OK, Mom, Stop it now. Not everything is a disease or disaster. (Although this might qualify). 



Budsworth said:


> I agree, looks like the soil is burning the leaves.


That looks for all the world to be extreme nute burn. Those seedlings are way to young to be receiving any nutes other than whats contained in the soil. Even if you used MG soil, if you don't add nutrients, your plants should not burn. Compound whats in the soil with any nutes added, and you'll get burnt, especially with seedlings. Just keep 'em moist. They like a bit more water than an established plant. Fortunately, it happened at this 2 week stage rather than 3 weeks into flower.
I'd start over, and only water them for the first 2 to 3 weeks (maybe even 4) When you start seeing alternating nodes, then start adding nutes at 1/4 strength building up to 1/2 or full strength gradually.
Just my opinion.


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## panta (Nov 9, 2008)

i didnt give em any nutes,i transplanted in the new soil few days ago in 2 more days il post,its not chanching much for now,im watering whit pure 6.5 water


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## panta (Nov 17, 2008)

it seems that they are getting better after the transplant in the new soil,now im a little lost as to when can i add nutes,but i dont whant to make it too soon and burn em again


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## dazed76 (Nov 17, 2008)

overwatering an ph problems can lead to magnese deficiency next time run water thru your soil and ph test the water comingout of it make sure its about 6 before you put any plant in it, proper preaparation prevents poor performance or just add some dolamite and water soil first let it rest and dry then use soil and water as usual


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## tusseltussel (Nov 18, 2008)

panta said:


> it seems that they are getting better after the transplant in the new soil,now im a little lost as to when can i add nutes,but i dont whant to make it too soon and burn em again


i would give it another week or 5 days then start feeding at quarter strength increasing a lil bit every week untill you reach full strength or 1 week b4 you plan to flower...


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## gwerns nugs (Nov 18, 2008)

I would wait longer...a little goes a long way homie....check out the journal...added nutes last week and they shot the fuck up...better to be safe than sorry


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## titanium3g (Nov 18, 2008)

NUTE BURN, soil is too heavy and rich for the babies


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## panta (Nov 18, 2008)

now i know.thanks for all the help,i almost lost all i had


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## natmoon (Nov 20, 2008)

The soil that you have should contain enough natural nutes to last about 4 weeks depending on how often they need watering,3 weeks if they are in a hot enviro and need frequent watering.
Start to introduce weak nute formula at about 3 weeks at about half strength and see how they go.
Also check to see if your specific strain is known to like or dislike certain nute strengths or conditions


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## panta (Nov 20, 2008)

update.i need help couse this shit started again,now it cant be the soil again this soil in which i transplanted aboy 10-12 days ago is the weakest soil i can find and they started growing just fine till today i saw the tips of leaves on 2 of my plants bending up and down and turning brown and the leaf seems to be a little pale yellow,2-3 days ago it was more a helthy green.i checked the runoff water and the ph is ok 6.8,i saw i thread where some guy has a potassium problem looks similar can it be that its a deficiency now


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## genfranco (Nov 20, 2008)

Hello Panta... I am a fellow soil grower and i would like to put my $.02 

Most people have suggested you change your soil mix.. some people suggest you overwater... I will suggest your thinking too much...

Soil is one of the most easiest mediums to grow in because it already has its nutrients in it. Most manufacturers already are putting a good mix for your growing needs. When you add extra water (flush n crap) all your doing is wasting nutrients. Only add enough water to moisten the medium.

I have learned allot about growing marijuana from riu's faq but i must say...

if it wasnt for mandalas guides i think i would have killed a few crops... please do your self a favor and read there guides... troubleshooting guides...seedling care.. fertilizing...

i would start here bro..

Soil Guide


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## genfranco (Nov 20, 2008)

panta said:


> it seems that they are getting better after the transplant in the new soil,now im a little lost as to when can i add nutes,but i dont whant to make it too soon and burn em again





who keeps telling you to add nutes?...!!! wtf!! if you get a decent soil you should be fine for the first 4 weeks... after that just transplant to a bigger pot...(giving it new nutrients with the fresh soil)... you dont have to give it nutrients!!!!!!!!


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## panta (Nov 21, 2008)

ok so i didnt give em any nutes but their tips are turning brown and twisted after the transplant in to this new soil everything was going just fine, they recovered and now again the same shit, what can i do now


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## panta (Nov 21, 2008)

i wait till the pot is light and dry and then water so i dont think its overwatering


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## genfranco (Nov 21, 2008)

panta said:


> i wait till the pot is light and dry and then water so i dont think its overwatering



you got it... just relax... water when its dry...


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## Jonus (Nov 22, 2008)

At your next water you could try dropping the pH in one of your seedlings and see if that responds over the next week. Try 6.0.


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## tusseltussel (Nov 22, 2008)

panta said:


> ok so i didnt give em any nutes but their tips are turning brown and twisted after the transplant in to this new soil everything was going just fine, they recovered and now again the same shit, what can i do now


tips of leaves turning brown could be a sign of low humidity and usually doesnt go an farther than that. i cant say for sure thats the problem without seeing it but it souds like your over caring for the plant, it really isnt hard to grow


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## panta (Nov 22, 2008)

tomorow il get my camera back so i can post some new pick's,its not just the brown tips and twisting the growth is stuned also,humidity 40-45%,


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## EeekAmouse (Nov 22, 2008)

Your giving them too much food and your growing in soil. The potting soil has enough "Nutes" do not fertilize the first week or two. Some agressive strains can power thru the Nutes, others start slower and then BAM! they start accellerating growth. Those are the strains that cant handle nutes as babies. Let the surface of the loose soil get dry, water from the bottom if you use a mix with vermiculite or pearlite, it works and gravity helps.


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## EeekAmouse (Nov 22, 2008)

Oh wait! I have a solution! If you really think its disease or a fungus, thy treating your babies with "SCORPION JUICE" it kinda bullitproofs your plants against stress, disease, and bugs. I use it on seedlings till 8" tall and even when the power went out from the hurricane, it had virtually no effect on the plants, no hermies, no stunting, etc etc. great stuff!


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## panta (Nov 22, 2008)

i didnt give them any nutes,i dont think i can find that scorpion juice where i live ill try to order from netherlands


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## Cann (Nov 22, 2008)

too much npk in that soil. also its too heavy. get some perlite and some really light soil (with a low npk!) and mix that up for your seedlings. You cant then transplant later into a nute rich soil, but make sure there are buffer zones so you dont burn the roots


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## panta (Nov 22, 2008)

i did transplant them from the soil in which they where originaly planted,this was the lightest soil i could find with a low npk and 20% perlite,i told them at the store that my plants got burned and that i need something light,after the transplant they started to grow great and now after 4-5 days of development that i saw, the tips started to twist and crisp,u can see the pics when they were fucked up and when they got better[on the previous page] tomorow il post new ones for the update,i dont think its the soil


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## natmoon (Nov 22, 2008)

What is your water source?


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## panta (Nov 22, 2008)

tap.i let it sit for a day then adjust the ph whit ph down and my ppm is 200-250


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## panta (Nov 22, 2008)

i use to grow many strain in this same room without a ph meter and,just through veg. never did flowering i was putting them outdoors,and i never had any problems this time i just cant figure this out


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## genfranco (Nov 24, 2008)

we need pics dude


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## panta (Nov 25, 2008)

heres the update,as i said they started to grow well and then again growth slowed or stoped in some cases and again the burning margins and curling,i planted some tomato plants on the side about 2 weeks ago just to see how they'l do and 2 of 3 got the same stunned growth and yellowing and burning on the leaves.so i went today to a agricultural institute to see if they gonna have something to say about this,when i explained the conditions and the transplant to this tipe of soil , the man was a little puzzeld but he told me its a deficiency that should try and folliar feed them.im using a 8-4-4 npk fert. how much should i put in the water for the foilliar feeding,im gonna try this on 2 of my plants to see what happens,i tryed almost everything else


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## panta (Nov 25, 2008)

the picures


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## panta (Nov 25, 2008)

heres the link for the soil in wich i transplanted
http://www.terracult.com/update/de/substrate_produkte_as.htm

TC10


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## panta (Nov 25, 2008)

Leaf Curling Up - Leaf curling up can be a sign of a Magnesium (Mg) deficiency caused by too low of a pH level. Magnesium deficiency will show as a yellowing (which may turn brown and crispy) and interveinal (in between the veins) yellowing beginning in the older leaves. Interveinal chlorosis (yellowing) will start at the leaf tip and progressing inward between the veins. It could also be a sign of excess heat and humidity in the grow room.

this sound a lot like mine,but my ph is ok unles my meter incorrect

i dont know what else to do iv been giving them pure ph 6.5 water and they started thid shit again should i try to folliar feed or something else


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## marcnh (Nov 25, 2008)

Do nothing. Wait.


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## panta (Nov 25, 2008)

its not like that,10 days ago i planted 2 seeds that i got free from my last order and 2 white russians in this new soil thinking that its ok so i wouldnt have to wait so long,yesterday i saw one of the 2 free seeds started to get a burned tip so now im extremely pissed if this gets to my russians,this is turning into a nightmare


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## panta (Nov 25, 2008)

maybe i have a corruption spell cast on my room dooming me to failure


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## natmoon (Nov 26, 2008)

Try feeding them only bottled spring water for a couple of weeks so that you can ascertain if its your water.
All tap water varies from area to area and some areas waters are crap for growing with imo.


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## panta (Nov 26, 2008)

thats a great idea thanks,is any bottled water ok,or is there some difference,i hear somebody say that its not good for the plants


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## panta (Nov 26, 2008)

just now im mesuring the ph of my bottled water its 8.0,should i lower it to 6.5


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## natmoon (Nov 26, 2008)

panta said:


> just now im mesuring the ph of my bottled water its 8.0,should i lower it to 6.5


Yeah lower it.
I just thought it may be possible that the tap water in your area is not good for the weed.
You could try using a filter on your tap water and then readjust the ph as needed after you've filtered it


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## panta (Nov 26, 2008)

il post pics of my white russians,they are still looking healthy but im afraid theyl fall to the same patterns as the others,this is to show to what size they grow normal and then stop and all the rest as i said


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## panta (Nov 26, 2008)

are they a little small for 14 days


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## natmoon (Nov 26, 2008)

Those look fine to me.
Maybe the strain that your having problems with requires soil that is very weak in nutrients.
Some strains don't like nutes very much


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## panta (Nov 26, 2008)

they all looked like the russians for the first 10-15 days,and then they start to turn that way as u can see from the other pics,i hope these dont


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## tusseltussel (Nov 27, 2008)

you sure your not overwaterin, and what and why is ther a straw in those pots


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## panta (Nov 27, 2008)

im not overwaterin,ichech the the soil whit my finger and wait till the pot is light when i lift it,today im watering whit bottled spring watr to if thats gonna help.maybe its the tap,on my last grow it didnt matter.got any suggestion


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## tusseltussel (Nov 27, 2008)

panta said:


> im not overwaterin,ichech the the soil whit my finger and wait till the pot is light when i lift it,today im watering whit bottled spring watr to if thats gonna help.maybe its the tap,on my last grow it didnt matter.got any suggestion


so whats up with the straw???? ive never seen that b4


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## brasmith (Nov 27, 2008)

panta said:


> heres the link for the soil in wich i transplanted
> http://www.terracult.com/update/de/substrate_produkte_as.htm
> 
> TC10


Found the problem for ya. Check out the pic that is attached, especially notice the npk of the soil (can't read the language) or the food you are using. That npk is for flowering plants,less nitrogen. Your plants are vegging and they must have an npk ratio suitable for vegging plants, higher in nitrogen. This is the reason your babys are having the issues. Fix this and you fix your plants.


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## brasmith (Nov 27, 2008)

ooooops...posted the wrong pic. The npk rating for tc10 is the same as tc1. Hope this helps ya out.


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## panta (Nov 27, 2008)

i use straws to mark the strain-different color different strain,


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## panta (Nov 27, 2008)

at the store i asked for a light soil for seedlings so they gave me that one as the weakest one they have,the n-p-k is the same on all 3 of these soils exhibit on that page but the one im using has 10% perlite,0.5kg/m3,if its not a problem can someone check the ratio on their soil so i can compare it or find something similar


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## panta (Nov 27, 2008)

and the structure on the other 2 they are 0-10mm on this tc10 is 0-5mm


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## brasmith (Nov 27, 2008)

You don't need any comparison, you need soil for vegging plants. The soil should have an npk similar to this 3-1-2, this is a vegging npk. Even if your soil has no npk to it you would use vegging nutrients with a high nitro content. The soil you are using 10% perilite and an npk of 14-16-18 is all wrong for your babies, even with the perilite. In short it is the lack of nitro and too much pk that is causing your problem.


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## panta (Nov 27, 2008)

ok tomorow il go to the store see what they have,but one thing i dont understand last time i grown more that 10 different strains in the seedling npk 14-16-18 soil 0.7kg/m3 and had no problems they were growing like crazy, thats the one in which i originaly planted the seeds prior the transplant to the lighter tc10 soil,and now all this


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## panta (Nov 27, 2008)

https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/132382-deficency-nute-burn-diagnostic.html,here mg deficiency looks a lot like mine,would it help if i spray at least some of my plants with a epson salt solution


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## panta (Nov 28, 2008)

Leaf Curling Up - Leaf curling up can be a sign of a Magnesium (Mg) deficiency caused by too low of a pH level. Magnesium deficiency will show as a yellowing (which may turn brown and crispy) and interveinal (in between the veins) yellowing beginning in the older leaves. Interveinal chlorosis (yellowing) will start at the leaf tip and progressing inward between the veins. It could also be a sign of excess heat and humidity in the grow room.

Solution - Check and adjust the pH level as necessary. When the pH is not at the proper level marijuana will lose its ability to absorb some of the essential elements required for healthy growth. If you&#8217;re growing in soil Magnesium will begin to be locked out at a pH of 6.5 and lower, in hydro it starts at 5.8 and below. If the pH is correct, then add 1 teaspoon of Epsom salts per each gallon to your water. Or, to foliar feed them, add a ½ teaspoon per quart to a spray bottle. **Note- If your tap water is over 200 ppm Magnesium will be locked out due to the calcium in the water. Magnesium can get locked out by too much Calcium (Ca), Chlorine (Cl) or Ammonium Nitrogen (NH4+). If this is your problem we suggest using bottled or RO (reverse osmosis) water. 


Leaf Curling Down - When the leaves curl under and burn at the tips and margins it&#8217;s usually a sign that the nutrient level is too high. acording to this ether my ph is off or my tap,but now im using bottled water but they are still getting worse can i try and foliar feedd whit some mild nute solution and epsom salt and how much do i add nutes and epson to a litter for the foliar feeding


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## bonghits4all (Nov 28, 2008)

dude they are 12 days old and you have them flushed and watered like everyday.Are you a retard??? and not a functioning retard who works at mcdonalds or wallmart but a drooling stuttering helmet wearing retard?1 week 5 days old and allready with root lock from overwatering.and burn from to much nutrients. 12 days old. thats some masterwork you have done.


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## panta (Nov 28, 2008)

u idiot read the thread from the start they are over a month and i didnt overwater and didnt give nutes u stupid imbecile


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## JTALO111 (Nov 28, 2008)

"STOP WHAT YOUR DOING" Can you get top-soil, sand and perlite and nute with rt.8-4-4 "yes or no will help". look at what i had and when i say it was bad you'll see in the pic it was all good and then hell.i can help but you will need 4 iten i ask about


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## JTALO111 (Nov 28, 2008)

what we got is nute burn and a bad lock out. what happen is your soil had nute in it and we add water with some nute .the problem show after about 5-10day from seed. So we change the soil and it help for a little because the plant had no nutes, but when we flush we add more nute's.slow release nute's in the soil release after one or two watering also by nute i'am talking about phosphate or p2o5 so what i did was change to top-soil 50% sand 25" perlite 15% and 10 item 4. top-soil "had NO NUTES IN IT AT ALL" i would love to show what she look like now but my cam is dead and can find the charger. I was useing nute's that was 10-15-10 and 15-30-15 now all i use is 8-4-4 and it all good 1/4 then 1/2 then full power ahead. also it will take time to get better about a week.


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## bonghits4all (Nov 28, 2008)

panta said:


> 12 days old euphoria duch passion,got also purple haze same age same problem it started 4 days ago,its not the soil i grown in this soil many strains ph 6.5 n-p-k 14-16-18 0.7kg/m3 thats the soil called seedling german brand,ph water 6.5,no nutes,temp day 25c temp night 21c,good ventilation,this shit is spreding fast i flushed a few plants and it didnt stop tryed some fugicide it didnt help,im posted this 5 times and still cant figure it out,if theres someone whit knowlege of what this can be,im thinking some kinda disease


 here you are now off to the chucky cheese with you.


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## panta (Nov 29, 2008)

today i went to 4 shops and couldnt find anything even close to what u said a soil with no nutes or whit more N than P and K,they only have soils that are stonger than what iv been using,monday il check 2 other stores left in my city but if they dont have something what can i do


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## dsmfreaks (Nov 29, 2008)

wow if i were you i would take all the sick plants to the kitchen sink and feed them to the garbage disposal. then track down some good soil where its local or online and just start over..but thats just me


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## JTALO111 (Nov 29, 2008)

you got no homedepot or lowes around, find one there all over,also here is a pic of my plant now you'll see she good to go


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## panta (Nov 29, 2008)

i live in bosnia,thats in europe,we dont have anything here,for almost everything i have to order from the net,but i cant do that with soil its gonna cost me more than weed


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## AToDaK (Nov 29, 2008)

panta said:


> i live in bosnia,thats in europe,we dont have anything here,for almost everything i have to order from the net,but i cant do that with soil its gonna cost me more than weed


haha i was born in sarajevo. kako je?

sweet. anyway it looks like mg def. either that or the soil you got is not suitable for growing pot.


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## panta (Nov 29, 2008)

skoro dobro,i changed the soil once already and its the weakest i could find i posted pics of the bag the specifics on the other post


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## AToDaK (Nov 29, 2008)

Ya it could be that u needed mg. Like the soil i have has small thin flakes of Mg. Does the soil have vermiculite? Since its a good source of Mg.


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## panta (Nov 29, 2008)

dont think so it doesnt say on the label


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## AToDaK (Nov 29, 2008)

next time u water u can dilute a small pinch of epsom salt in the water


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## bleezyg420 (Nov 30, 2008)

give your babies some more rootspace and some nice new soil. Get somthing with a ph of abound 6.5-7.0. Make sure you monitor what your feeding as well!


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## panta (Nov 30, 2008)

tomorow il got to the store,right now im not feeding anything,i was thinking since the roots are not taking nutrients can i foliar feed to compensate till the transplant


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## panta (Nov 30, 2008)

heres the pics


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## atmt888 (Nov 30, 2008)

On my latest grow I began using nutrients 6 days after germination and they are extremely healthy at 35 days old. This usually isnt recommended and I do not recommend it for others. I only do this because i have years of experience with the brand of nutes I use and always start with extremely dilute formulations. If you are going to start a nutrient regime early it is important to find a brand and stick to it. As soon as any problems occure back off to regular water for a few days then resume with a 25-50% concentration reduction. On the whole I would have to agree with genfranco in that your probably overthinking. The problem with keeping plants on a frequent nutrient schedule, or trying to reduce every problem/death/failure down to a single and simple cause and solution, is that it is inherantly easy to get "garden OCD". This can cause even experienced growers to make stupid errors, misdiagnosis, and detrimental overcorrections. Think of it this way, marijuana is a WEED! I have found plants growing unintentionally in my 50 year old 12 inch thick gravel driveway after being driven over for weeks. If you've used this soil mix with success in the past, and these plants are dying so easily, do you really want to spend anymore time and energy to smoke buds from a plant like that?


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## JTALO111 (Dec 1, 2008)

atmt888 said:


> On my latest grow I began using nutrients 6 days after germination and they are extremely healthy at 35 days old. This usually isnt recommended and I do not recommend it for others. I only do this because i have years of experience with the brand of nutes I use and always start with extremely dilute formulations. If you are going to start a nutrient regime early it is important to find a brand and stick to it. As soon as any problems occure back off to regular water for a few days then resume with a 25-50% concentration reduction. On the whole I would have to agree with genfranco in that your probably overthinking. The problem with keeping plants on a frequent nutrient schedule, or trying to reduce every problem/death/failure down to a single and simple cause and solution, is that it is inherantly easy to get "garden OCD". This can cause even experienced growers to make stupid errors, misdiagnosis, and detrimental overcorrections. Think of it this way, marijuana is a WEED! I have found plants growing unintentionally in my 50 year old 12 inch thick gravel driveway after being driven over for weeks. If you've used this soil mix with success in the past, and these plants are dying so easily, do you really want to spend anymore time and energy to smoke buds from a plant like that?


yes you can feed then form day one as long as in the right nute and 1/4 mix or less


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## panta (Dec 5, 2008)

a few days ago i transplanted my plants,i tryed a few combinations of soil mixes,50%soil-50%perlite with 2 different soils,1/3soil 1/3coco coir 1/3 perlite also with 2 different soils,now if this doesnt work i dont know wath to do


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## panta (Dec 5, 2008)

now my question is can i use a 1/4 stenght 8-4-4 fert and a ml of super drive when i water will that help them recover or make it worse,i did foliar feed with a mild solution yesterday 1/5strenght


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## panta (Dec 5, 2008)

this is the label of the soil


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## brasmith (Dec 5, 2008)

They don't need any food right now at least until you see how they are reacting to your new soil mix . Let the plants talk to you.


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## tusseltussel (Dec 5, 2008)

your still tryin to figure this out

no food whoever told you to feed it is wrond i mentioned feeding but said to wait untile it recovers that plant is seriosly burnt and what do you do feed it. dnt do anything but water it when it dries out you dn't need to feed or it will never get better no food just water when it needs it pay no attention to it make sure temps are right and whater with plain ph'd water when it needs it then walk away leave it til the next watering then water it with plain ph'd water and walk away untile it next time it needs water then water it with ph'd water and walk away may as well start another plant too


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## panta (Dec 5, 2008)

some people told me when u have a lockout u can foliar feed the plants with a mild solution just to keep it from deteriorating,thats why i asked,and tussel i told u i never gave my plants any food this is the foliar feeding for the first time couse i thought they are a little bigger and the soil is mixed so much


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## dazed76 (Dec 5, 2008)

fuck look what youve done to them already , they look fucked. leave them alone or give themto someone else cause your abusing them, dont feed them till they are 2 feet tall.


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## dazed76 (Dec 5, 2008)

they should ban you from buying seeds


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## marcnh (Dec 6, 2008)

dazed76 said:


> fuck look what youve done to them already , they look fucked. leave them alone or give themto someone else cause your abusing them, dont feed them till they are 2 feet tall.


Dazed is right. Just leave them alone. Give them ph'd water and wait. You might not be letting them dry out enough between waterings also.


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## panta (Dec 6, 2008)

why are u talking shit when u didnt even read the thread,i mentioned at least 3 times that im not over watering and the idiot told me to leave them alone,thats what i was doing in the start and it didnt work couse my soil was too strong or the ph meter is wrong,I NEVER GAVE EM ANY NUTES,i tryed to foliar feed em just 3 of my plants to see what happens and it didnt hurt,now they are in 3 different mixes of soil and perlite ,soil and coc coir and perlite so now im waiting to see the results,tomorow il get the ph buffer that i ordered to check the ph meter,all i asked was is it ok to foliar feed with a mild solution when the roots are clearly not taking the nutes and a professor at a agricultural institute told me to do that so i was asking here to check that for the cannabis plant becouse i showed em a tomato plant that has the same simptomes,and u start to talk shit


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## lilmafia513 (Dec 6, 2008)

hey man, thread is way long to read it all, but from the first pic, it looks too wet, if you have let it dry out for a few days unill it dies out really good, then disregard this.
For the NPK, it's a little high for the little plant. I don't use nutes untill about three weeks in. I don't know about the whole 4 foot thing the other guy said but, just try no nutes for a few days and see what happens.
I am not being a dick, just don't wanna read it all right now.
Do you use any nutes in watering?
What nutes?
Does the soil have nutes in it from the store and what is it?
Do you add any nutes to the soil befor you pot the plants?


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## brasmith (Dec 6, 2008)

lilmafia513 said:


> hey man, thread is way long to read it all, but from the first pic, it looks too wet, if you have let it dry out for a few days unill it dies out really good, then disregard this.
> For the NPK, it's a little high for the little plant. I don't use nutes untill about three weeks in. I don't know about the whole 4 foot thing the other guy said but, just try no nutes for a few days and see what happens.
> I am not being a dick, just don't wanna read it all right now.
> Do you use any nutes in watering?
> ...


Hey 513, Panta needs help and you cannot give quality help unless you read the whole entire thread, back up and read the whole thing and you will notice all the questions you have asked have already been taken care of. 

Panta-keep going on the path you are on with your plants and you'll see them recover, patience is virtue here.


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## lilmafia513 (Dec 6, 2008)

brasmith said:


> Hey 513, Panta needs help and you cannot give quality help unless you read the whole entire thread, back up and read the whole thing and you will notice all the questions you have asked have already been taken care of.
> 
> Panta-keep going on the path you are on with your plants and you'll see them recover, patience is virtue here.


 Why, if the guy is still pissed off about not being helped,on page 100 and something of the thread, then that means all the nonsense he's been given obviously didn't help. You can give helpful info if the other people trying to help are not helping, by not reading the thread. ask the questions you want to know,then get them answered. That's how i give help. sorry if it isn't exactly how you do it, since i guess you are the RIU elit pro, right? how about we stick the point, the guy needs help, how about doing that instead of trying to focus on the other post in the thread not directed to you, but to the guy who asked for help. That's why i hate looking through new post because everybody is a pro looking to build their rep.......fuck it i'm out, if ya' want my help hit me up elsewhere, i don't grow in my mommies closet,so i kinda have a grasp on things. thanks!!!


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## KaliKitsune (Dec 6, 2008)

I've read this entire thread now. the problem you have is very, very simple.

See how those leaves are folding in half and pointing upwards? Note the crisping at the tips of your leaves and the irregular splotching. Also note the twisted tips you have on newer growth and deformed leaves. 

This is 100% magnesium lockout caused by pH.

First flush with three gallons of water per gallon of soil. Then prepare 1/2 teaspoon of ground/powdered epsom salts in a gallon of hot water. Let that solution totally dissolve and cool down, then foliar feed your plants with it and spray a little around the root area. While you're at it break the soil and rootball up a little to aerate, the extra oxygen won't hurt.

This has clearly been mg lockout by pH from the beginning. Spring/bottled water is usually treated with other things. Try using a reverse-osmosis filter to get all the other excess calcium and whatnot that they fortify spring water with, as this throws off pH when it reacts with other things.

http://www.greenmanspage.com/guides/plant_abuse.html


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## panta (Dec 6, 2008)

i dont live in the US so i dont have RO water here and right now to buy a filter is a little expensive for me since i spent more than 2000euros on this,can i use distiled water but on the bottle of the distiled water it says ph 6-8 can i adjust it to 6.5,thats what i saw some people do with the epson salt and fert. that why i askes,i did flush once before and it didnt get better,now i transplanted most of my plants in different soil mixes,i got one type of soil-50% and 50% perlite,and i got a nother soil in the same ration with perlite then 30%soil30%perlite30%coco coir and that with both soils separately,now i dont have to flush these plants that i transplanted a day or 2 ago can i just treat them with that solution in the new soil mix and is it better then to use distiled water ph'd than spring/bottle water

heres a chart,acording to this my ph was to low
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gardenscure.com/420/attachments/plant-nursery/209849d1186314471-nursery-troubleshooting-guide-nutrient_chart.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.gardenscure.com/420/nursery-reference/105126-nursery-troubleshooting-guide.html&h=335&w=600&sz=32&hl=en&start=21&um=1&usg=__F3KMhnmZITGTZH2eDhbOvR_DScE=&tbnid=IEsbmNB-iJNiPM:&tbnh=75&tbnw=135&prev=/images?q=tomato+leaf+chlorosis+picture&um=1&hl=en&sa=X


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## panta (Dec 6, 2008)

kalikitsune,do i have to use hot water or can it desolve in cold as well and how often should i spray them and when an hour before the lights come on is that ok


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## lilmafia513 (Dec 6, 2008)

LOL!!! Who +repped me?


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## KaliKitsune (Dec 6, 2008)

You must use hot water to dissolve epsom salts.

And you can foliar feed an hour before lights come on or immediately after, if you're using an HID light. If you're using flourescent lights you can spray most any time without fear of droplets magnifying the light and causing burn.


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## BITCHIMME (Dec 6, 2008)

cut those parts off so it wont spread


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## panta (Dec 6, 2008)

do i foliar feed once a week or more,what u mean spread its not a desease


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## KaliKitsune (Dec 7, 2008)

once a week is fine.

And by spread, he means the necrotic parts. they'll eventually mold and mildew over. that will cause further problems later on down the road, trim those dead areas away.


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## panta (Dec 10, 2008)

i need some advice will this soil be ok,its the weakest i could find www.agriferma.ro/pdf/substrat/substrate_tc4.pdf ,and is its a little strong can i mix it 50-50%with perlite would that dilute it,


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## panta (Dec 10, 2008)

after the transplant some of my plants are still stuned,3 that are performing the best are planted in this soil in the pic,but the problem is that it says on the label that its not treated against disease and fungus so how can i disinfect it


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## KaliKitsune (Dec 10, 2008)

Most soils aren't treated for infectious stuff. Best way to sterilize soil is to bake it in an oven at about 450F for a few hours. This will kill just about everything in the soil, minus some extremophile bacteria.


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## panta (Dec 10, 2008)

man from all this soil complications soon as i get over this level i think im gona try hidro


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## panta (Dec 10, 2008)

i got these little plants growing from the new soil,i never had enything growing from that other tipe,is it a big risk to use this soil,the other brand says its treated against disease and things like that


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## KaliKitsune (Dec 10, 2008)

looks like cheap soil with some random seed in by accident. it's fine just make sure to pull the little sproutlets out


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## marcnh (Dec 11, 2008)

Yes, a "funguy" problem. You're having too much fun with your friggen plants!! Leave them alone and let the soil "*almost dry out*" You're messing with them too much, let them be. Plain ph'd water *ONLY*. I like to start mine in styro cups, I think it insulates them better and grows better roots. 
Remember, too much stress and you will have more males!


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## panta (Dec 13, 2008)

now some of my bigger plants are developing nicely,now when can i start to feed them im a little traumatized from all these soil problems now if my soil is ok and theyare growing when can i start giving them some mild nute solution


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## panta (Dec 14, 2008)

its been 10 days since i transplanted,some are in 50-50soil perlite some 1/3soil 1/3perlite 1/3coco coir,the new growth looks nice and green,when can i start givivng them 1/4 nutes


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## panta (Dec 14, 2008)

all are over a month old


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## KaliKitsune (Dec 14, 2008)

Your last picture still hints at a magnesium deficiency or lockout. Note how the leaves are half-folded and pointing up to the sky like it's praying. Also note the whitening of the leaves and shriveling tips. I think that algae in your soil is screwing with your pH and causing a lockout.

Either way, you have obvious magnesium deficiency. Find out what's causing it. It looks like pH.


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## panta (Dec 14, 2008)

the ph of my water is 6.6 and the runof's 6.7ph,i thought that praying was a sighn that they are growing and reaching for the light,i got 3 different tipes of soil mixed with perlite or coco coir as i said,the bigger plants have no browning on the tips but the old leaves are damaged as u can see,so is it possible that the smaller plants are still recoveryng from a lockout and the bigger ones maybe recovered,the little brown burnt tip on the new growth u see is from tuching the bulb


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## KaliKitsune (Dec 14, 2008)

Mg recovery is done within a day, the leaves will no longer be folded up like they currently are.

If you ph your water at 6.6 and the runoff is 6.7 that means your soil's pH is still way off because it shouldn't be so basic as to neutralize the acidic watering solution.

It's definitely a ph lock that's still ongoing. Fresh growth will look fine but as it ages you'll see it getting worse.


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## panta (Dec 14, 2008)

what should the ph be of the water and the runoff


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## KaliKitsune (Dec 14, 2008)

Try taking your pH down to 6. Don't bother measuring pH of the runoff, it is irregular and unpredictable. Get a soil probe to measure pH.


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## panta (Dec 14, 2008)

6 isnt that low for soil

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gardenscure.com/420/attachments/plant-nursery/209849d1186314471-nursery-troubleshooting-guide-nutrient_chart.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.gardenscure.com/420/nursery-reference/105126-nursery-troubleshooting-guide.html&h=335&w=600&sz=32&hl=en&start=21&um=1&usg=__F3KMhnmZITGTZH2eDhbOvR_DScE=&tbnid=IEsbmNB-iJNiPM:&tbnh=75&tbnw=135&prev=/images?q=tomato+leaf+chlorosis+picture&um=1&hl=en&sa=X
see on this chart anything below 6.5 could pose a problem


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## KaliKitsune (Dec 14, 2008)

Your chart there shows conflicting information that doesn't jive with basic chemistry. Sorry, google is NOT god.

If you're watering with pH 6.6 and you're pulling runoff of 6.7 that means your soil is basic (Above 7) and screwing with your pH. This is basic chemistry.


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## BCTHC (Dec 14, 2008)

1 - never feed by leafs
2 - if your getting burned tips/leafs flush
3 - test the run off if its high when you do a nother watering/flush use some PH Down and test the run off
4 - to high or to low of PH level will cause nute lockout to certin micro nutes, try to find a sweet spot for PH Level
5 - always use distilled water


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## bigbudster (Dec 14, 2008)

panta said:


> i need some advice will this soil be ok,its the weakest i could find www.agriferma.ro/pdf/substrat/substrate_tc4.pdf ,and is its a little strong can i mix it 50-50%with perlite would that dilute it,


 try mixing with vermiculite 50 50 allways works for me


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## bigbudster (Dec 14, 2008)

try vermiculite 50 50 find this better


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## bigbudster (Dec 14, 2008)

wouldnt be in a rush to go hydro if you get a hydro grow wrong you can lose the lot very quickly press on with the soil you will learn so much with a little persiverance.


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## BCTHC (Dec 14, 2008)

always and I meen always have some plants still growin in Soil as moms , dads , clones for flowering and to replace the moms and dads because if you rely on hydro you can lose every plant in your crop and have to reorder the seeds


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## EeekAmouse (Dec 15, 2008)

panta said:


> 12 days old euphoria duch passion,got also purple haze same age same problem it started 4 days ago,its not the soil i grown in this soil many strains ph 6.5 n-p-k 14-16-18 0.7kg/m3 thats the soil called seedling german brand,ph water 6.5,no nutes,temp day 25c temp night 21c,good ventilation,this shit is spreding fast i flushed a few plants and it didnt stop tryed some fugicide it didnt help,im posted this 5 times and still cant figure it out,if theres someone whit knowlege of what this can be,im thinking some kinda disease


Im sure this has been covered but you need to mix your soil with vermiculite and pearlite to losen the soil, provide air and hold moisture. Oh and 6.5 PH is a little high I prefer 6.0 - 6.2 for ganja.


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## DR. VonDankenstine (Dec 16, 2008)

KaliKitsune said:


> Your chart there shows conflicting information that doesn't jive with basic chemistry. Sorry, google is NOT god.
> 
> If you're watering with pH 6.6 and you're pulling runoff of 6.7 that means your soil is basic (Above 7) and screwing with your pH. This is basic chemistry.


-------False------If The soil run-off is 6.7 and he's input water pH is 6.6 then he would still be under 7 not over. As far as the ideal pH for soil and marijuana that allows all major and minor plus micros to be available and assimilated in a non-chelated form----it's a 6.575 pH.


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## KaliKitsune (Dec 17, 2008)

DR. VonDankenstine said:


> -------False------If The soil run-off is 6.7 and he's input water pH is 6.6 then he would still be under 7 not over. As far as the ideal pH for soil and marijuana that allows all major and minor plus micros to be available and assimilated in a non-chelated form----it's a 6.575 pH.



Wrong. To lower the acidity of something by .1 you need a pH difference of at LEAST 1, or greater, in a 1:1 molar solute. That means the soil HAS TO BE MORE BASIC, and NOT in such a narrow range of acidity, to make runoff that acidity.

That means if his water is 6.6 and his runoff is 6.7 his soil's likely around 7.5+ and that's what has been causing his problems all along. BAD PH.


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## DR. VonDankenstine (Dec 18, 2008)

KaliKitsune said:


> Wrong. To lower the acidity of something by .1 you need a pH difference of at LEAST 1, or greater, in a 1:1 molar solute. That means the soil HAS TO BE MORE BASIC, and NOT in such a narrow range of acidity, to make runoff that acidity.
> 
> That means if his water is 6.6 and his runoff is 6.7 his soil's likely around 7.5+ and that's what has been causing his problems all along. BAD PH.


 You are correct about the movement of PH and the required balance of basic/acidic correction for a 1:1 molar solution, But incorrect as to his soil being over 7---There are too many variables in the soil and in the application of balancing solution along with time and saturation to say that his soil is over 7 because he started with 6.6 and his run-off said 6.7. I would put my money were my mouth is and even go on to say that if he added a 7ph solution to the soil then run-off would read at or below 7PH---The reason he is showing micro nute deficiencies is that those nutrients become locked-out above 6.6----As you already know--you don't have to be above a 7 PH to experience micro defs. Not trying to be rude or a know-it-all but I work with soil day in and day out along with testing run-offs and direct soil testing.


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## Jaredbc (Dec 20, 2008)

This was good entertainment...


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## panta (Dec 21, 2008)

what was good entertainment


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## DR. VonDankenstine (Dec 22, 2008)

hows the plants?


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## panta (Dec 22, 2008)

not so good a few days ago i transplanted some of my plants in coco coir i heeded your advice and fed them 6.3ph water, to some of the bigger plants i gave a 1/4strenght nute solution to see how that goes and i got 3 afghani's from sensi that i planted in some new soil so far theyr ok but im waiting to see what happens in 10 days thats the critical period


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## panta (Dec 22, 2008)

these are pics of DP euphoria the first one is from about 10 days ago when she was growing after the transplant and the second now yesterday i transplanted her in coco coir


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## panta (Dec 22, 2008)

this is the white russian first from about a week ago and the second now in coco coir transplanted yesterday


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## panta (Dec 22, 2008)

these are the afghani from sensi 7 days old planted in the new soil
heres the link of the soil www.agriferma.ro/pdf/substrat/substrate_tc1.pdf


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## DR. VonDankenstine (Dec 22, 2008)

panta said:


> these are the afghani from sensi 7 days old planted in the new soil
> heres the link of the soil www.agriferma.ro/pdf/substrat/substrate_tc1.pdf


 The DP looks like it is struggling a little but the white russion looks good----your seedlings look good as well. You may have to to just wait the DP out a couple days---sometime's they take a little time to rebound after stress.


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## panta (Dec 23, 2008)

i dont understand what made the dp deteriorate again couse it had the same simptomes before the first transplant then after it got back and started growing vigorous and then again the same patern and now this is the second transplant


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## genfranco (Dec 23, 2008)

panta said:


> i dont understand what made the dp deteriorate again couse it had the same simptomes before the first transplant then after it got back and started growing vigorous and then again the same patern and now this is the second transplant


How long between transplants?


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## b14cklabel (Dec 23, 2008)

I agree that the first issues were lack of oxygen and soil too compact. I know some growers have had good grows with slightly above 6.2 PH but you should try and drop that down to 6 or 5.9 and you could get better results? Just what I have read. I had similiar issue as you and making the ph 5.8 fixed it right up the same day as the watering and I am in 100% miracle grow soil 
( Planted them before I read up ) but both plants are thriving as I think the other issue was how much you were watering them at once. Over watering is hard to do with adult plants but seedlings like yours maybe tuning down the amount and increasing the frequency, along with mixing up the top 1/2 inch of soil to aerate it better is good for 100% soil plants. Water fresh water every time and you will never have to aerate watering solution unless of course you have a permanent water feed system. 

The coco-coir you have is same stuff I got. The water drainage is 100% improved from what those guys were in before and it is HARD to over water plants in a hydro medium. You really have to be drowning them. Most hydro mediums have zero nutes. be careful not to have your coco coir not mixed and compacted, this can also cause some soil-like compact conditions. Try mixing anything that is stable and not readily water soluable like perlite and mix that with your coir, will work wonders! I am going to try 2 different sets myself, I have aquarium safe rocks that I will be trying as a mix with coir and also perlite, to see which does better. Would like to hear from your results as well!

Also I think I read someone said to not be nuteing soil plants at seedling stage, this is generally a great idea unless you want some unecessary worrying and some burn as the light and the nutes in the soil will feed that sucker for a good few with just normal ph adjusted, dechlorinated tap water.

As for random plants going, it could be genetics. With a bad start like they had easily a plant can be weak enough genetically to only grow to a certain point and die or just die right away. Transplants are alot of stress too especially from soil to coir if you removed all of the soil from the plant before the transplant its like taking a person from a thriving market and putting them into poverty, they arent used to it! Deaths can and will occur!


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## panta (Dec 23, 2008)

genfranco 10days to 2 weeks


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## panta (Dec 25, 2008)

heres the update;the new sensi afghanis in the new soil the same problem distilled ph 6.3water no nutes


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## b14cklabel (Dec 25, 2008)

you test the ph of the water coming out of the soil? whats it at? 
Is this soil new/fresh or soil thats been previously flushed and reused?


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## genfranco (Dec 25, 2008)

panta said:


> heres the update;the new sensi afghanis in the new soil the same problem distilled ph 6.3water no nutes


IF its new soil leave her alone and only give her water for the next few weeks.... after that transplant to the next size up or give it a low nute dose.... they are doing good... nice green NEW growth.


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## panta (Dec 25, 2008)

new soil heres the link www.agriferma.ro/pdf/substrat/substrate_tc1.pdf
ok il give her water as i did,and il transplant her but iv seen this happen with my other plants and trust me its not gonna get better,i thought of transplanting one of them in pure perlite and treating it like hydro with me manualy watering it for a test to see if the water ok,is this possible


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## panta (Dec 25, 2008)

i just mesured the runoff 2 have the same as the water 6.3 and 2 have 6.4


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## genfranco (Dec 25, 2008)

panta said:


> new soil heres the link www.agriferma.ro/pdf/substrat/substrate_tc1.pdf
> ok il give her water as i did,and il transplant her but iv seen this happen with my other plants and trust me its not gonna get better,i thought of transplanting one of them in pure perlite and treating it like hydro with me manualy watering it for a test to see if the water ok,is this possible


Search hempy buckets... but you gotta give her the nutes cause in hydro the medium doesnt have nutes. Soil has your nutes for you... 

Why arent you able to just get some ocean forest... or any of these tested soil that work great for MJ... most of these you dont HAVE to add anything to the water for about 4 weeks... then you transplant OR give it nutes.

*A selection of brands in North America:*


*Fafard Professional Potting Mix*
*Kellogg Potting Soil*
*Supersoil Potting Soil*
*Sunshine All Purpose Planting Mix*
*Scotts Potting Soil*
*Miracle-Gro Potting Mix*
*Miracle-Gro Organic Choice Potting Mix*
*Fox Farm Ocean Forest*
Check this guide out too... I probably have already given you this link though... 

http://www.mandalaseeds.com/html/soil_guide.html


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## KaliKitsune (Dec 25, 2008)

*Supersoil Potting Soil


*

Oh goodness no. Don't use that. It's too woody, robs you of nitrogen like nobody's business and it's near-impossible to maintain a good pH level in it. That is what I started my first experiment grow in recently, and it was the source of every problem imaginable. It took a transplant into different soil (MiracleGro 3-month no-feed,) and things improved dramatically.

The rest of the suggestions are fine, though.


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## panta (Dec 26, 2008)

genfranco said:


> Search hempy buckets... but you gotta give her the nutes cause in hydro the medium doesnt have nutes. Soil has your nutes for you...
> 
> Why arent you able to just get some ocean forest... or any of these tested soil that work great for MJ... most of these you dont HAVE to add anything to the water for about 4 weeks... then you transplant OR give it nutes.
> 
> ...


i dont live in the US so its not an option for me,so if i plant my seeds in a wool cube or perlite and water them with ph 5.8,what strenght nutes shoul i start with and can use the same nutes as i used for the soil grow


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## panta (Dec 26, 2008)

genfranco,from thet link the basic soil specs describe the soil that im , mines maybe a little lighter compared to what they suggest and there they say that u shouldnt mix perlite but here most people told me to, so i did 50-50%,anybody have any suggestions what should i do next


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## genfranco (Dec 26, 2008)

panta said:


> genfranco,from thet link the basic soil specs describe the soil that im , mines maybe a little lighter compared to what they suggest and there they say that u shouldnt mix perlite but here most people told me to, so i did 50-50%,anybody have any suggestions what should i do next



Well If your medium is lighter than what they suggested.. plus you diluted it with perlite.. therefore you are not providing your plant with enough food... 

Shit man thats right your the guy that took some pics of the store selection for me .... Did you ever find any other stores?

I would say feed the plant with a light dosage.. but then again i dont know what you can feed from that store... uggh... 

I would start reading on how to make your own compost... or hell man if you have the internet... buy yourself some decent fertilizers like the foxfarm or advanced nutrients... You can buy throw away visa cards at most airports and trainstations... 

But like i said before man... I would go site seeing and see what the local farmers are buying... If all they are using is normal soil they got and adding bannana peels n shit to it then do it... But mixing perlite which has no value as food is concerned with alight soil is going to starve your plant...


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## panta (Dec 26, 2008)

i did order some advanced nutrients ferts over the net but the customs in my shity country dont allow fertilizers to enter the country without a decleration witch i dont have couse im not a vendor,so thats out,the ferts that i have that use to support my plants well in the past are n-p-k 20-20-20 and 8-4-4,10-5-6 witch one is better


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## darylgrow (Dec 27, 2008)

It looks like overfeeding.

14-16-18 sounds a bit strong.

I seed from 0.0,0.1,0.0 

Try no nutes for a week or two.

Good luck


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## panta (Dec 27, 2008)

tryed that for 4 weeks and u see the results


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## thecloset (Dec 27, 2008)

what are you growing inside of?? i really hope ur not using a hydro hut cause if u are then thats definitely the problem... i went through the same process of trying fucking EVERYTHING and everyone telling me i had mg deficiencies with no success before i tore down the hydro hut and everything recovered fully(with some extremely interesting mutant characteristics).


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## panta (Dec 27, 2008)

whats a hydrohut,im growing inside a growbox tent heres the link http://www.hidroponika.com/?id=8ac135f5e151415457966a7838b19f7d
can u explain your situation this sound interesting couse this is the new thing that i got in my room in witch i used to grow without problems but i also have 10 flourous in a dreser beside these tents


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## panta (Dec 27, 2008)

the growbox is made in china,thats low quality is it possible that its cousing the problems


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## panta (Dec 27, 2008)

man i saw this thread http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=77070 and some others and i dismanteled my 2 tents in maybe a world record time 5 min,hope this works,i wont even be pissed that i spent 400e on them ,thecloset i used to grow with a 8.5 ph tap water and had no problems now im 3 month deep in this shit 6 strains tryed everything and cant make it


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## DR. VonDankenstine (Dec 28, 2008)

panta said:


> man i saw this thread http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=77070 and some others and i dismanteled my 2 tents in maybe a world record time 5 min,hope this works,i wont even be pissed that i spent 400e on them ,thecloset i used to grow with a 8.5 ph tap water and had no problems now im 3 month deep in this shit 6 strains tryed everything and cant make it


 Your soil more than likely buffered the 8.5 tap water.


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## panta (Dec 28, 2008)

doc,what u think about this hh plastic,check the second page on that icmag link i posted the pics look just like mine


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## DR. VonDankenstine (Dec 28, 2008)

panta said:


> doc,what u think about this hh plastic,check the second page on that icmag link i posted the pics look just like mine


 I read all the posts on the bad HH plastic but the only real way to find out would be to move your plants or line the walls of your tent with pnda plastic and seal. I like to address plants problems systematicaly---If you are running your plants in all diverent mediums and your soil PH is correct then it's time to move on to the water source then air temp then humid then lighting...ect... I really like to solve problems so PM me and lets get this thing fig out ASAP...


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## runsfromdacops (Dec 28, 2008)

DR. VonDankenstine said:


> Your soil more than likely buffered the 8.5 tap water.


 soil can only buffer so much ph and after time it will lose the ability to buff the super high ph.at lest thats waht i have read on here.


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## DR. VonDankenstine (Dec 29, 2008)

runsfromdacops said:


> soil can only buffer so much ph and after time it will lose the ability to buff the super high ph.at lest thats waht i have read on here.


 That is correct.


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## panta (Dec 29, 2008)

in 7 days il post pics


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## thecloset (Dec 29, 2008)

yo dont even worry about the soil i guarentee uve been doing everything right the whole time... ur plants are showing all the EXACT same symptoms mine did. i lost probly 25 plants trying to work shit out and nothing would ever work. its the fucking hut i PROMISE!! take that shit down!!! problem solved buddy... glad i could help. and its exactly what you said too... a lot of these hut making companies outsourced their manufacturing to china where they decided to change the kind of glue used to adhere the inner and outer layers of the lining because its cheaper. turns out the glue they decided to use releases fumes toxic to plants at temps anywhere above 70F. u might want to talk to wherever u purchased the hut cause i got reimbursed for my lining and just bought some mylar and put that around the same frame. now my plants are beautiful. Recovery may be slow at first and ur plants may even start to show some really crazzy mutant characteristics but everything should be good in the end. GOOD LUCK!


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## genfranco (Dec 29, 2008)

I knew that those soils in that store couldnt be THAT bad.. They probably grow excellent shit after all... Cant wait to see the next few weeks pics...good luck man.


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## bleezyg420 (Dec 29, 2008)

take a look https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/120940-bleezys-grow-journal-9.html


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## panta (Dec 29, 2008)

i had 2 huts 1.2mx1.2x2m in a room thats 3.5mx3.5m,and the plants that i have in the plywood dresser under energy eficient light were also afected but less than the ones in the hut so i started thinking that my hps is causing problems,i hope they recover,fuck the refund and the money i dont care about that i just wana see my plants grow healthy


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## panta (Dec 31, 2008)

heres the wrussian under the flourous the first one showing progress,under the hps they are stall a bit


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## panta (Dec 31, 2008)

stalling,,


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## bleezyg420 (Jan 10, 2009)

Do they always looks all their chlorophyll and turn completely white? That would be the tent.


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## jordisgarden (Jan 10, 2009)

would that be considered rootbound? i was just wonderin. i also have never nuted any seedling i am scared so i wait till they are like a month old. is that too old? also what if i dont use nutes at all my plants would still be fine right? right noww i use miracle grow, only cause i dont know of anything better. and i use it at 1/4th the srength they say to use it, if i use any at all. and thats only one 1 month +plants. am i way off on this? how important is it. i mean they dont get nutes in the wild why do they need them inside? and what about people like myself without the xperiance to know if the plant is even benefiting from the nutrients?


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## genfranco (Jan 10, 2009)

read some of my threads buddy... especially fertilizing wisely.


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## panta (Jan 10, 2009)

i just came back from a trip,my brother watered the plants for the past 7 days and they look fantastic,just like the old days especialy the WR so it was the tent 3 months wasted and now im back,tomorow il post the pics,now i want to reconstruct my grow room il post the dimesions and my plan so if any of u veterans have some suggestions to help me out il appreciate that alot


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## genfranco (Jan 10, 2009)

no problem panta.... sorry i keep forgetting what this thread is about... i dont know how many times ive recommended those threads to you..lol...

Damn man..of course it would be that damn tent...

So what you thinking now?... just plywood painted flat white would work great..


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## panta (Jan 10, 2009)

heres my rooms description;
1 table 90cmx60cm under a 430hps im thinking of switching to a mh thats for the mother plants 6 in total would a 250 mh be ok
under that table i got 2 aquariums for the clones 
i got 1 dresser with 10 energy efficient bulbs for a little bit of veg.
and now couse i got fucked with these chinese tents i wana make a flowering room thats 1.2m x 2.4m and 2.6m high,now i have 2 reflectors with 430 hps bulbs one for the mother plants and one for the flowering room now i wana buy another one for flowering and im thinking a 1000w is that ok to place one 430w and one 1000w in that space,also im gonna use some osb board for one side and some nylon for the front


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## genfranco (Jan 10, 2009)

600 would be best..... 400 can go closer than 1000... and 600 is the best as far as watt/lumens/reachgrowth

I wish i would have started with a 600.. now im like you with a 400... damn it... 

What i will end up doing is using the 400 for veg 6 big plants... and then two 600's for flowering in a double tent... tents are good... just get the right one...

Secret jardin is the one i recommend.


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## panta (Jan 10, 2009)

im gonna build a floweroom its much cheaper then a tent,i wish i got 2 600w when i started instead of 2 400w that i got now,but know as i is i wana use that other 400 wat reflector and for that space of 2.88m2 would it be enough a 400w and a 600w or should i get 1000w


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## jordisgarden (Jan 11, 2009)

a tent as in a tent that goes in your yard? to hide it from neighbors?


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## genfranco (Jan 11, 2009)

no i mean a grow tent..... Silly doggy


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## panta (Jan 11, 2009)

genfranco i got a question for you,in this grow of mine i have 3 LR/AK47s fem/ that have had alot of stress and now they are getting back slow,can they turn hermie and if so will the seeds be feminized


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## genfranco (Jan 11, 2009)

panta said:


> genfranco i got a question for you,in this grow of mine i have 3 LR/AK47s fem/ that have had alot of stress and now they are getting back slow,can they turn hermie and if so will the seeds be feminized


i believe that is how they make feminized seeds. Never tried it. They Could turn hermie.. but then again they could not... Right.. good luck.


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## v12xjs (Jan 11, 2009)

Hey Panta

Just read through the thread. Early on you said you didn't use any nutes but your water was measuring 250ppm. That's way high. If that is just the measure of plain tap water then that may be where the problem is. My tap water is around 40 - 50 ppm. My first feed at 3 or 4 weeks would still only be at 200ppm including the 50ppm already in the water.
If your water is so high before you add nutes then you have to wonder what's in it.
You could try putting your tap water through a normal kitchen water filter system to filter out all the unknown crap that's in there or maybe buy some distilled water from a car spares store. They sell it for topping up batteries.
Good luck with the girls. I've been looking at euphoria myself, so I'll be keeping an eye on how yours get on.


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## panta (Jan 12, 2009)

its not the water its the tent,il post pics today so u can see the improvement and im using distiled water foe 3 weeks or more now,it didnt make a difference but the tent did,anyway il post pics of the euphoria as im probably gonna start flowering in 10 days


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## bubblegumdude (Jan 12, 2009)

cpcp coir .. has hormones that kill fungus and have perfect water air ratio .. use it and you wont have that problem


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## bubblegumdude (Jan 12, 2009)

coconut coir... beautiful stuff


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## panta (Jan 13, 2009)

have some plants in it


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## panta (Jan 15, 2009)

pics in the chinese grow tent


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## panta (Jan 15, 2009)

heres the after ,now i built me a natural chipboard flowering room and they look much better,i wanted to ask a question about the ventilation ,can i put the same power fan for the intake as the exhaust or should one be stronger


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## DR. VonDankenstine (Jan 15, 2009)

WTF--------What the hell was the tent made of??????---I have read posts here and there about problems with different tents---do you know what the material is that caused the problems?----plants look 100% better------WOW-----glad to see things working for ya...


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## panta (Jan 15, 2009)

man i dont know what it was made of some kind of plastic but by the way those plants looked im glad im normal being that my growroom is just 10 feet away from my bedroom,and all this time i was in disbelief how can this happen that they were dying and i kept everything perfect and now after more than 3 month im back on track,dr can u answer my question about the ventilation i posted up above


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## panta (Jan 21, 2009)

i see a little bit of twisting on the upper leaves is this normal


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## panta (Jan 21, 2009)

and the little one LR/AK47 is droopy ever since i transplanted it,has the same soil and conditions as the rest


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## panta (Jan 21, 2009)

more pics..


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## jordisgarden (Feb 2, 2009)

i just bought a 400 watt hps sun supply 2 lamp, and i use a fan to blow cool air acrosss the bulb and unit, ive been able to place my plants much much closer because of the fan. then again the unit i bought gives off nothing as far as heat...when i used to use a 400 years ago i remember it being so hot id stand up burn my neck on it and jump 20 feet. this one is awsome. no heat. that has to be heat hurt in those pics right?


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## panta (Feb 2, 2009)

toxic growbox


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## panta (Feb 2, 2009)

before in the plastic growbox and after i got it out


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## genfranco (Feb 2, 2009)

im glad to see your all back up and running...


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## panta (Feb 2, 2009)

i cant believe i wasted 3 month and 400e on this shit,can u advise me on some things like will this plant outgrow its pot or is it big enough for her to finish flowering in it,its a white russian in a 3 gallon pot shes 2 feet tall i started flowering 4 days ago,also is it too late for LST now


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## panta (Feb 2, 2009)

i need to water her every 3 days ,it use to be 5


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## genfranco (Feb 2, 2009)

panta said:


> i cant believe i wasted 3 month and 400e on this shit,can u advise me on some things like will this plant outgrow its pot or is it big enough for her to finish flowering in it,its a white russian in a 3 gallon pot shes 2 feet tall i started flowering 4 days ago,also is it too late for LST now


patience... they grow allot when flowering...


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## panta (Feb 2, 2009)

my LR/ak47 fem. all ahve balls and no female preflowers does this men theyr hermi


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## genfranco (Feb 2, 2009)

panta said:


> my LR/ak47 fem. all ahve balls and no female preflowers does this men theyr hermi


Doesnt it mean they are males... i mean... oh they were sold to you as fem?...LOL


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## panta (Feb 2, 2009)

i got 5 fem. seeds 3 survived but u know u seen the thread and how they looked,so now i see they got balls on all 3,first i thought that with these auto's maybe something different but now im wondering is this a sign that they hermie,or are there suppose to be female flowers that develope male sacks later if they turned hermie under all that stress


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## JTALO111 (Mar 17, 2009)

can you post a new pic. i would say there hermie


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## panta (Mar 17, 2009)

killed'em long time ago


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## Bamstone (Mar 18, 2009)

Just as a test, put some of the same seeds in a 50-50 mix of whatever soil you are using and spagnum peat. I have found that some strains really prefer a lighter mix for the first month.


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## panta (Mar 18, 2009)

Bamstone said:


> Just as a test, put some of the same seeds in a 50-50 mix of whatever soil you are using and spagnum peat. I have found that some strains really prefer a lighter mix for the first month.


u didnt read the whole thread,i found out what was the problem after 3 months of trying every possible solution and in the end it was the growbox that i used it was toxic soon as i got it out they whent wild


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## JTALO111 (Mar 21, 2009)

Do you have something new going on or what


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## panta (Mar 22, 2009)

i got white russians flowering in different stages some are near harvest time about 2 weeks and euphoria DP,mongo kc,lr/ak47,afghani sensi seeds and 2 free seeds i got dont know the strain thats in the flowering room with the 600w hps and the 400w hps with a dual fan temp. controler,on the table in the same room i got the mother plants under 2 125w cfls and the clones under that in the aquarium and in the dresser are the veg. plants getting prepared for the flowering and i got the other flowering room with a nother 400w hps same strains and one purple haze and one passoin #1 from DP


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## panta (Mar 22, 2009)

heres some WR and euphoria


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