# I Hate Cloning



## Butthead08 (Apr 7, 2011)

i just put 9 cuttings into my bubbler last night. and this mourning they were all bent and fucked up looking. all the other clones i had in the bubbler in the past never fell over. i checked the bottoms of the plant and they are all nice and wet. so i dont know why they are doing this. im really pissed off with this cloning shit. any suggestions? i thought the bubbler was the easiest way to clone?


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## gogsyc (Apr 7, 2011)

i find i have to leave humidity dome on clones for ages like 2 weeks takes me 10 to 14 days to get them rooted but have about 95 % sucess rate cant figure out how people can get roots in 3 or 4 days


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## Serapis (Apr 7, 2011)

Most aren't. they might see root bumps in 3-5 days, but they can't transplant that quick. 



gogsyc said:


> i find i have to leave humidity dome on clones for ages like 2 weeks takes me 10 to 14 days to get them rooted but have about 95 % sucess rate cant figure out how people can get roots in 3 or 4 days


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## hoagtech (Apr 7, 2011)

Ya make sure you reservoir is shallow to get more air under your cut. The bubbler is not the easiest way to clone but has its advantages if your sticking to hydroponics.

I like the aeroponic cloners but humidomes kick bubble cloners ass in simplicity and cloning rate. Also make sure your temperatures are high if you can, and give them some light. 

One thing you could do to make your bubble clone more effective is take ziplock freezer gal bags and put them over your plants without touching the cuttings as much as possible and tuck the edges of the bag under your netpots or neoprenes and slit the top open. then spray your cuttings. This will force root action. You can also clip the leaves on your cuttings back about 1/2" off the stem.


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## hoagtech (Apr 7, 2011)

gogsyc said:


> i find i have to leave humidity dome on clones for ages like 2 weeks takes me 10 to 14 days to get them rooted but have about 95 % sucess rate cant figure out how people can get roots in 3 or 4 days


a good light source and heat. 85-95 degrees. and good cutting techniques


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## Butthead08 (Apr 7, 2011)

thanks for the tips. the temps are good, humidity in the room is good. and outta all the bubble cloners i have seem i never seen a dome over them. so i dont think thats the problem. i think i left too much leaf on the cuttings. so i went in and hacked alot of the leaf off. i guess i will just leave them in there and see what happens. if they root i would guess they would stand back up.


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## Beansly (Apr 7, 2011)

My cuttings are gonna be a week old tomorrow and they're still standing and looking healthy. Some of the leaves are turning yellow but theres no sign of roots. They say that scraping the stem makes it take longer to root, so I'm hoping that's what;s up. Everything I've read says that it takes about 10-14 day for roots to show so I think patience might be the name of the game (I hope...). I've had two clones doing real bad so I pulled them and the stem had turned woody and hard...but they were still hollow, making me think I pulled them a little too soon.


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## Butthead08 (Apr 7, 2011)

are you using a bubbler beansly? in the past all my clones stood straight up but these last night in one night got all twisted and fucked up looking. ive had so much failure cloning this past month i dont know what to do. could the strain have anything to do with it?


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## wiseguy316 (Apr 7, 2011)

i use an areo cloner with no humidity dome. works great


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## Beansly (Apr 7, 2011)

Butthead08 said:


> are you using a bubbler beansly? in the past all my clones stood straight up but these last night in one night got all twisted and fucked up looking. ive had so much failure cloning this past month i dont know what to do. could the strain have anything to do with it?


Some strains are notoriously hard to clone yes. I'm using rapid rooters and a diy propagation chamber


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## Mother's Finest (Apr 7, 2011)

The "easiest" cloning method imo is just using peat or another inert medium and a humidity dome. Types of aero-cloning probably fit more into "faster" methods of cloning but are a little more complicated. We haven't finished this cloning how-to, so it may be a little rough.

Start clones under 24hrs light until standing up (about a day) then switch to 16/8. Roots grow fastest at night, so all rooting clones should have a dark period. Use peat pucks buried in damp perlite. Cut all clones from a given mother at once, placing each in a shotglass of water as soon as it's cut. Re-cut each stem under water, hold it in the water for a minute and then dip in rooting powder. Re-dipping in water after applying the powder has been tested and found to be a bad idea. Alternatively, they can be re-cut in liquid rooting hormone. Clones must be planted in the pucks immediately. We use a large metal pot with a glass lid set slightly ajar. A heating pad is mandatory and there must be plenty of insulation between the pad and the clone pot. Use no fertilizers. Wet peat pucks with plain water ph'd to 5.8. Arrange the clones inside the pot and cover the peat pucks with damp perlite. Place the pot under fluorescents. The lid of the pot should have slight condensation in the middle. If water drips from the condensation, the humidity is too high. If it's too high, set the lid more ajar. The humidity should be just high enough to keep the clones alive but still less than the dampness of the peat. If the clones get too much water from the air, they won't grow roots to reach out for more water.


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## Canon (Apr 8, 2011)

Something I found that seems to help my cloning is to get the clone-to-be squared away while still on the mother.
Couple - three days before taking the clone I'll do all the trimming of leaves. 
By the time they're cut for cloning all the wounds are on their way to recovery. Probably puts less stress on the plant? 
Anyways, It may get a little yellow after a while on the oldest leaves (they do recover though),, but they don't droop or go limp at all.


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## Butthead08 (Apr 8, 2011)

wow canon that is good thinking. trimming the leaves before taking the cutting would be a lot easier.


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## Wolverine97 (Apr 8, 2011)

My only thought to contribute is maybe your mother plants had dry soil at the time you took cuttings? You want to thoroughly water your donor plants at least an hour prior to taking cuttings, this helps tremendously.


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## Butthead08 (Apr 8, 2011)

yea the coco was really dry. i read that your supposed to flush the plant before taking cuts? i flushed it and waited about 4 days to cut clones. so that is wrong?


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## dlively11 (Apr 8, 2011)

Spray your moms prior to cutting. Prevents the drooping you are talking about.


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## Serapis (Apr 8, 2011)

You can also place cuttings directly in bowl of water to keep fresh and prevent wilt.


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## Coast captain (Apr 8, 2011)

I clone using rapid rooters and have good success I just keep a cover over them ie(solo cup with plastic bag over it whatever. The only other thing to remember is keep like a fat girls crotch warm and moist.


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## Serapis (Apr 8, 2011)

Isn'y your crotch warm and moist? What about Lindsey Lo? Why did you have to insult fat chicks? 



Coast captain said:


> I clone using rapid rooters and have good success I just keep a cover over them ie(solo cup with plastic bag over it whatever. The only other thing to remember is keep like a fat girls crotch warm and moist.


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## taint (Apr 8, 2011)

This is really a very simple process,the main thing is to just leave them alone.
All the poking and jostling around while you worriedly look at them is the absolute worse thing you can do.
I swear if you try it like this with little to no variation you will have success,just try it.
*  This is an easy way to do some cuts.First a healthy plant in veg with some good branching,side and top views.
I use an old cutting board,a rusty razor,sharp fine pointed scissors and roottech gel.
You don't need any hormones at all to take cuts successfully but it speeds up the process and the plants are less beat up by the time they root.
How the branch looks removed with nodes attached and stripped off,I just pinch them off be careful not to kink the stem.......kinking is bad.
Stick in gel let sit for 30 seconds or so.
In this case I'm using peat pellets but it'll work in just about anything that will keep the cut from drying out while it's rooting.
Soak the pellets overnight or they'll suck the moisture outta the cuts with bad results.
Poke hole in pellet,stick cut all the way down again careful not to kink the stem.
Form pellet around stem,gently.......then dunk in water to replace what ya squeezed out by forming then put in a dome.I'm using a cake box,they come in a huge variety of shapes and sizes plus ya getta cake.......fucking A.
In this case they're about 12"s under a 42 watt cfl,just leave'em alone they don't like being messed with.
Roots take anywhere from 5 to 15 days depending on plant and temp,I will take some pics and explain how I quick harden them off and pot'em when these root.
Now the donor plant provided 6 cuts and has 4 main branches,ready to be up-potted and flowered tomorrow. *​*




Attached Thumbnails       

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## Coast captain (Apr 8, 2011)

Are you a fat chick? Why is everyone so uptight on cannabis forums.


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## stoneruk (Apr 8, 2011)

Mother's Finest said:


> The "easiest" cloning method imo is just using peat or another inert medium and a humidity dome. Types of aero-cloning probably fit more into "faster" methods of cloning but are a little more complicated.


No way is aero cloning more complicated, it's _the_ easiest cloning method ever! 

Cut clones, place in aero cloner that has just water in it (or if you wanna go nuts add some rhizotonic) leave them for a week, come back and you have roots! There is no easier method.


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## Butthead08 (Apr 8, 2011)

when you said "spray your mother" before cutting reduces welting. what do you spray it with?


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## Serapis (Apr 8, 2011)

Water.......



Butthead08 said:


> when you said "spray your mother" before cutting reduces welting. what do you spray it with?


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## dlively11 (Apr 8, 2011)

Butthead08 said:


> when you said "spray your mother" before cutting reduces welting. what do you spray it with?


Sorry, yes plain water. Will get the soon to be cuttings nice and hydrated right at the source and eliminate any wilting at all basically. I used to get wilting going right to clone machine. Usually they would perk back up over night but sometimes they would stay wil.ted for longer. Started giving them a nice misting right before taking cuts (like 5 min) and now they never wilt.


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## Goldowitz (Apr 8, 2011)

I use Clonex and put my cuttings in small RW cubes. IMO 15-20g is ideal for the cubes. My cuttings average out to be 5g, so I want my cube + cutting to weigh 25g. I water twice a day using a digi scale and a spray bottle. All cuttings are placed on a seed flat with a humidity dome that has adjustable vents and a heat mat set to 84. For me, the hardest thing to get down was knowing how much humidity to have. For example, my cuttings need a lot more the first few days then they do the last few. Also temp and humidity outside will dictate how I adjust the vents. I like to spray the mothers before taking the cuttings and when I take the humidity dome off to water them. The water I give my clones has hygrozyme, LK and mild nutes. Also, don't forget to give your clones 12 hours of darkness after cutting them. I have been doing it this way for over three years and get 90-100% success with plenty of roots within 10-14 days. This method works great for me, but we are all different. Try a few ways and stick with what works for you.


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## greenlanter (Apr 8, 2011)

high humidity in the mother plants enviroment help the tissue cell to break down , iam bake i hope i made sence...


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## dlively11 (Apr 9, 2011)

Goldowitz said:


> I use Clonex and put my cuttings in small RW cubes. IMO 15-20g is ideal for the cubes. My cuttings average out to be 5g, so I want my cube + cutting to weigh 25g. I water twice a day using a digi scale and a spray bottle. All cuttings are placed on a seed flat with a humidity dome that has adjustable vents and a heat mat set to 84. For me, the hardest thing to get down was knowing how much humidity to have. For example, my cuttings need a lot more the first few days then they do the last few. Also temp and humidity outside will dictate how I adjust the vents. I like to spray the mothers before taking the cuttings and when I take the humidity dome off to water them. The water I give my clones has hygrozyme, LK and mild nutes. Also, don't forget to give your clones 12 hours of darkness after cutting them. I have been doing it this way for over three years and get 90-100% success with plenty of roots within 10-14 days. This method works great for me, but we are all different. Try a few ways and stick with what works for you.


Looks good. 84 degrees ? Isnt that a bit hot ? How do you regulate the temp (where do you place the heat sensor)? I put my sensor right into one of my cubes to give a accurate temp reading. 

You water 2 times a day? Even from the very start ? Man I never water mine more then once every 2-3 days. Interesting and it seems to work very well for you. 

Recently I had mine to humid and got a lot that died off and got mold on them 

I like the clone machine the best excelt for when the power goes out


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## Goldowitz (Apr 9, 2011)

I read ABF's thread a while back and he said 86 degrees, so I don't feel that 84 is to hot.
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/15030-batch-clones-rockwool.html

I have my heat mat pluged into an adjustable controller and I set my sensor the same way that you do. I feel that is the best way to get a good reading. I live in a dry location so that might have something to do with the watering. I learned that during the summer, if I don't water twice a day my cubes will go dry and the cuttings will die. I have had problems with to much humidity and M*** also. When that happened I just killed all the cuttings and cleaned my equipment, to end the problem right away so that future cuttings would not get it.


dlively11 said:


> Looks good. 84 degrees ? Isnt that a bit hot ? How do you regulate the temp (where do you place the heat sensor)? I put my sensor right into one of my cubes to give a accurate temp reading.
> 
> You water 2 times a day? Even from the very start ? Man I never water mine more then once every 2-3 days. Interesting and it seems to work very well for you.
> 
> ...


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## legalizeitcanada (Apr 9, 2011)

dude i was having the same problems......i had a hell of a fucking time, here's what i did and it worked!

I bought an aquarium heater, the smallest and set it to 78 degrees, I set my water level 1" - 1.5" below the stems, I placed the cuttings in my bottle of cloning gel for about 1min - 3min, and then placed them in the bubbler, I also added a drop of the gel to the water and mixed it in, I'm using well water so nothing special there, and low and behold 5-7 days I had roots! hope this helps!


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## dlively11 (Apr 12, 2011)

Goldowitz said:


> I read ABF's thread a while back and he said 86 degrees, so I don't feel that 84 is to hot.
> https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/15030-batch-clones-rockwool.html
> 
> I have my heat mat pluged into an adjustable controller and I set my sensor the same way that you do. I feel that is the best way to get a good reading. I live in a dry location so that might have something to do with the watering. I learned that during the summer, if I don't water twice a day my cubes will go dry and the cuttings will die. I have had problems with to much humidity and M*** also. When that happened I just killed all the cuttings and cleaned my equipment, to end the problem right away so that future cuttings would not get it.


Wow, okay I'll try that. My 120 site EZ cloner is usually around 74-78 degrees. I'll drop a heater in and see how it does at 82-84. I have a batch of clones on aheat mat right now at 75 degrees, I'll raise that up as well. Its weird because when I touch the medium it feels warm at 75.

Whats the best humidity level that you found anyway ?


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## Beansly (Apr 12, 2011)

taint said:


> This is really a very simple process,the main thing is to just leave them alone.
> All the poking and jostling around while you worriedly look at them is the absolute worse thing you can do.
> I swear if you try it like this with little to no variation you will have success,just try it.



I would give you rep if i could cause you are absolutely right. You really just need to put in what ever you do to keep the humidity up and leave them alone. Except for the first day where you gotta kinda keep an eye on them, I learned to only check my clones once in the morning and once at night and not to fiddle with them.
And don't up on your clones without a fight. They aren't dead until the leaves are shriveled and dry.


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## Goldowitz (Apr 12, 2011)

I don't have any experience with the EZ cloner and I believe that ABF's recommendation of 86 is just for RW cubes on a heat mat. If you raise your water temp that high you might run into unexpected problems. I know that bad microbes like hot water temps. The ideal humidity will depend on many things, possible even the strain that you are growing. I had SS AK47 for two years before starting DP WW. The AK47 did not need a lot of humidity, but my WW does. I had cuttings of both strains under the same dome and while the AK was doing great, the WW were wilting so I had to add more humidity. Overall my WW are very sensitive, the AK was moderate and the SS NL that I had for my first ever grow years back was very tolerant.

If you have to much humidity it can stunt the root growth and M**D can become a problem, but if you don't have enough, the cuttings will begin to wilt. If I was going to find the ideal humidity, I would adjust the vents so that 50% of the dome has a *fine* layer of moisture on it. If the moisture is forming water drops, that is to much. That sould be a good starting point and you can make adjustments after that. I also like to give them more when they are freshly cut and for the first few days, then cut back to my normal level. It took me a good year or more to be able to read the cuttings and know how to make adjustments with the humidity, so just take your time, experiment with different ways and have fun with it. I hope this helps. 

G




dlively11 said:


> Wow, okay I'll try that. My 120 site EZ cloner is usually around 74-78 degrees. I'll drop a heater in and see how it does at 82-84. I have a batch of clones on aheat mat right now at 75 degrees, I'll raise that up as well. Its weird because when I touch the medium it feels warm at 75.
> 
> Whats the best humidity level that you found anyway ?


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## n=chronic (Apr 12, 2011)

Ive been using a DIY aero-bubble tote for about three months and havent lost a clone yet. Heater set at 72 degrees. I use recomended dose on clonex bottle for three days and a tsp per gallon of super-thrive after that and transplant in a week with 11 inch roots. Had good luck with rapid rooters and a dome once i used a heatmat and put a layer of small perlite in the flat, 100% humidity misted twice a day for first two days. then misted one a day. gradually letting more air in till i remove the dome completely in three days from start they were done in two weeks with two inch roots. I topped the six plants going into flower on the 2nd by just cutting at 45 angle and put in cloner,no gel, and i put in gallon pots yesterday with 14 inch roots. 24 hour lite cycle, at 76 degrees.


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## Serapis (Apr 12, 2011)

It's fine to run a EZC at those rez temps; however; you need to manage pythium before it causes stem rot and slimes the water. I have been using the chlorine in bleach to control organisms and it is working great. My 30 site takes a 1/4 tsp of bleach to maintain a ppm of around 1-2. I use a pool test kit with drops to read chlorine content. When it falls below 0.6 ppm, I add another 1/4 tsp. You can also use pool shock and mix your own, however that is a much higher available chlorine content and you need to dilute it down to about 4-5% available chlorine. One gallon of Clorox should last a hobbyist grower several years.



dlively11 said:


> Wow, okay I'll try that. My 120 site EZ cloner is usually around 74-78 degrees. I'll drop a heater in and see how it does at 82-84. I have a batch of clones on aheat mat right now at 75 degrees, I'll raise that up as well. Its weird because when I touch the medium it feels warm at 75.
> 
> Whats the best humidity level that you found anyway ?


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## Wolverine97 (Apr 13, 2011)

Serapis said:


> It's fine to run a EZC at those rez temps; however; you need to manage pythium before it causes stem rot and slimes the water. I have been using the chlorine in bleach to control organisms and it is working great. My 30 site takes a 1/4 tsp of bleach to maintain a ppm of around 1-2. I use a pool test kit with drops to read chlorine content. When it falls below 0.6 ppm, I add another 1/4 tsp. You can also use pool shock and mix your own, however that is a much higher available chlorine content and you need to dilute it down to about 4-5% available chlorine. One gallon of Clorox should last a hobbyist grower several years.


Roots Excelurator. It will control pythium.


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## Serapis (Apr 13, 2011)

And how much is that a gallon? 



Wolverine97 said:


> Roots Excelurator. It will control pythium.


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## Wolverine97 (Apr 13, 2011)

Serapis said:


> And how much is that a gallon?


Um, I don't remember exactly because I switched to GH Rapid Start (same thing). The GH I use at 1.5 ml/gal, if I recall the RE was about the same.


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## Serapis (Apr 13, 2011)

I like the low cost of chlorine. I add powdered hormone as well. Clear Rez, made by EZC has a slight bleach smell, a chemical analysis showed chlorine was in it. That was what got me searching for bleach in reservoirs. Fatman (I wish he wasn't banned  ) had a great thread about chlorine and reservoirs. it sure beats a water chiller or swapping frozen bottles.



Wolverine97 said:


> Um, I don't remember exactly because I switched to GH Rapid Start (same thing). The GH I use at 1.5 ml/gal, if I recall the RE was about the same.


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## Wolverine97 (Apr 13, 2011)

Serapis said:


> I like the low cost of chlorine. I add powdered hormone as well. Clear Rez, made by EZC has a slight bleach smell, a chemical analysis showed chlorine was in it. That was what got me searching for bleach in reservoirs. Fatman (I wish he wasn't banned  ) had a great thread about chlorine and reservoirs. it sure beats a water chiller or swapping frozen bottles.


Yeah, but Roots Excelurator and GH Rapid Start do soooo much more than just control root rot. Since I started using them (either one) my rooting time is drastically reduced, and the quality and quantity of roots don't even compare. You could use that product alone with no cloning gel and still have good success. Good luck doing that with bleach.


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## Serapis (Apr 13, 2011)

I've had roots in 3 days....  pics in my thread to show it. 



Wolverine97 said:


> Good luck doing that with bleach.


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## Wolverine97 (Apr 13, 2011)

Serapis said:


> I've had roots in 3 days....  pics in my thread to show it.


I have two strains that will show roots that quickly, the rest take at least five days, some seven. Both of those products are hormone based, and biologically active. They form a protective membrane around the root surface keeping pathogens out. I use it when transplanting my veg plants, and I get ridiculous root growth using either one. Seriously, I recommend them if you can't tell. Regardless of current success, they can only help.


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## dlively11 (Apr 18, 2011)

Wolverine97 said:


> I have two strains that will show roots that quickly, the rest take at least five days, some seven. Both of those products are hormone based, and biologically active. They form a protective membrane around the root surface keeping pathogens out. I use it when transplanting my veg plants, and I get ridiculous root growth using either one. Seriously, I recommend them if you can't tell. Regardless of current success, they can only help.


I dont think those items would work well enough in a clone machine with warm water (80 or higher especially) Also I beleive they dont really work/help until there are roots showing. Another thing people need to know about them is you need to use water without chorline in it at all or you wil just kill everything you paid so much $$ for. 

I am with Serepis, I bought a $5 bag of pool shock and it will treat about 200,000 gals of water. Easy to work with compared to plain bleach, keeps the res clean and sterile and you get great results with clones. The other products mentioned cost a fortune and really dont offer better results or even as good under some circumstances. $70 to treat 250 gallons or $5 to treat 200,000 gallons... easy choice for me. They are great products with redicules prices to match  The pool shock I am using is EXACTLY the same thing EZ Clone Clear Rez is too and they charge a moderate $20 per quart  I hate how these companies rip us off.....


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## Wolverine97 (Apr 18, 2011)

dlively11 said:


> I dont think those items would work well enough in a clone machine with warm water (80 or higher especially) Also I beleive they dont really work/help until there are roots showing. Another thing people need to know about them is you need to use water without chorline in it at all or you wil just kill everything you paid so much $$ for.
> 
> I am with Serepis, I bought a $5 bag of pool shock and it will treat about 200,000 gals of water. Easy to work with compared to plain bleach, keeps the res clean and sterile and you get great results with clones. The other products mentioned cost a fortune and really dont offer better results or even as good under some circumstances. $70 to treat 250 gallons or $5 to treat 200,000 gallons... easy choice for me. They are great products with redicules prices to match  The pool shock I am using is EXACTLY the same thing EZ Clone Clear Rez is too and they charge a moderate $20 per quart  I hate how these companies rip us off.....


I have great success, and my temps are between 76-80 degrees pretty consistently. I don't use Roots Excelurator anymore because of the cost, I've switched to GH Rapid Start which is half the cost. Still pretty expensive but like I said, I get great results.


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## dlively11 (Apr 18, 2011)

Wolverine97 said:


> I have great success, and my temps are between 76-80 degrees pretty consistently. I don't use Roots Excelurator anymore because of the cost, I've switched to GH Rapid Start which is half the cost. Still pretty expensive but like I said, I get great results.


I was looking at the GH one, didnt realize it was half the price. Glad to hear it is working great for you. What else are you doing to keep the bad stuff at bay ? Are you in a clone machine ?


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## Beansly (Apr 18, 2011)

I love how the people that had trouble cloning not two weeks ago are now professionals and are giving tutorials and advice....
You wanna know the secret...Patience.
Every method works.


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## Beansly (Apr 18, 2011)

Serapis said:


> I've had roots in 3 days....  pics in my thread to show it.


What thread Serapis?


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## DrFever (Apr 18, 2011)

i my self like the old school method of cloneing works everytime hell i just finished cloneing 108 clones lol


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## KUSHKEBABB (Apr 19, 2011)

Just do this.Use some dip and grow,leave the dome for 5 days and make sure the water is not touching the tip of the plug.if using rockwool,put some perlite underneath.I get roots in 10 days,transplant with 14-17.Hope it hjelps!!!!


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## maps84 (Apr 19, 2011)

Hi beans I just got cloning down but I failed a gazillion times before. What worked for me was an aero cloner and plain PH'd water. You can add a little Super Thrive and H2O2 at half recommended dosage like I did, or keep it as simple as you can. Just replace water every week. Good luck man


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## DrFever (Apr 19, 2011)

I also read that giving your mothers food 2 hrs prior to cloneing will help speed things up 

some strains will root faster i have afganistankush and it seems to take min 20 days to have a strong healthy clone then i just cloned some pure power and within 4 days it was rooted enough to transplant i was fckin amazed let me tell you


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