# Does vertical growing need less watts



## Testosterone (Aug 9, 2016)

does growing vertical allow you to use less watts per sq foot vs growing regularly?


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## pinner420 (Aug 9, 2016)

Lighting requirements I believe are higher as your growing bigger plants for trees. On the flip side of that statement you could run 98 in an octagon with a single 600. So really it's how you set it up...


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## rkymtnman (Aug 9, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> On the flip side of that statement you could run 98 in an octagon with a single 600.


sounds like one of Heath Robinson's grows if you are familiar with his vert grows.


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## pinner420 (Aug 9, 2016)

He's the alpha and omega!


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## Testosterone (Aug 10, 2016)

Thanks man that's exactly what I thought...I think I'm going to get around 35 watts per sq ft with the set up I'm planning so il see how that goes


nxsov180db said:


> In my experience yes. My horizontal grows have been 600 watt hps over 32"square's (85 watt's sq/ft, probably over kill) and now i run 1000 watt hps over 4'x4' squares (62.5 watt's sq/ft). My vertical grows use 2x 1000 watt hps's and trellis's that are a little over 80 sq/ft (25 watt's sq/ft) and I have other vertical grows that use 3x 600 watt hps's with the same 80 sq/ft (22.5 watt's sq/ft) and the 3x 600's give me more par than the 2x 1000's. More usable light is provided to the canopy in a vertical setup without a reflector. Now the light intensity is defiantly not as high at the canopy in my vertical setups as it is in my horizontal setups but the gram per watt of yield is a lot better. Ideally I would have liked to be around 35-40 watts sq/ft in my vertical setups but the only way to do that would be to shrink the diameter of the trellis's or somehow fit 2 bulbs in each cooltube (I use cooltubes btw I know people say you lose 10% of the light but if measured with par and lux and the difference is extremely minimal).


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## kiwipaulie (Aug 16, 2016)

I use more . I'm running 1400w in my 4x4


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## sezar29 (Aug 20, 2016)

I'm not sure if it helps, but what I do is make my own cool tubes out of that insulating plastic that us Canadians put inside our window frames in the winter time. I use a sheet and just make a cylinder out of it between two buckets that I connect to my 6inch ventilation system, the pressure keeps it blown up like those dancing Giants at used car dealerships...


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## TacoMac (Sep 2, 2016)

Sezar, that is slicker than cat shit on a linoleum floor, bud. Well done!


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## sezar29 (Sep 2, 2016)

Thank you! When I fill that tube with all four lights and stack those boxes to the roof with plants I pull around half a zip per plant, total of 240 plants in a 4x4 footprint under 1600 watts. I think that is as efficient as it gets. Straw berry cheese cake, and my beautiful 5 yr old C99..they work wonders in vert. And if they start getting too tall...I chop some bottom branches and sink her back in further in those boxes..I try to end up w 12-14" main cola. Roots are healthy..just dark from Bennies and good fungi..plants look scraggly here but I believe in the 7 and 21 day defoliation...and the 21st day was yesterday. ..then they blow up like crazy!


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## Prawn Connery (Sep 4, 2016)

Nice aero setup. 1g per w is a good yardstick.

I've grown 1200w vertically for years, with and without cool tubes, and you're better off without them. A good, 12-16" floor fan will duct heat away from a bare bulb just as efficiently as any cool tube - probably more so, especially with an extractor fan directly overhead. My plants grow inches away from the bulbs.

The problem with cool tubes is they get dirty - all that dust sucked inside, all that resin and other stuff on the outside - so unless you're keeping them sparkly clean each grow, they're simply a liability.

That's my experience.


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## sezar29 (Sep 4, 2016)

I agree with you 100% there...the reason for the tube is that I collect the heat from the a/c and dehui where the intake of my fan is and extract all the heat sources in one shot, plus I don't have a choice since I run a sealed room. I inject pure O2 in the root zone when the pump kicks on at 2-3 cfm for 15 mins..and co2 at1500 during lights on..

I might not have explained my yields clearly earlier..I basically pull between 12-18 grams per plant depending on strain, x230-240 plants on a full room grow. Under 4 x 400 watt hps and mh 50/50.

Average of 15g per. X 230 =3450
3450 ÷1600=2.15gpw

I m not your average or conventional grower, and love to experiment! I have failed but learned many times..but I am super happy with my set up, I just throw what I know out there, and others can pick and choose what is convenient for their situation. I just loved learning from people that pushed the envelope, and knowledge is power...and in our case..killer yields! Cheers


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## Prawn Connery (Sep 4, 2016)

My bad - that's a very impressive yield! You can't argue with a system that works. My yields didn't suffer when I used a cool tube, but they were no better - and it was an unnecessary hassle keeping it clean. It was always easier with the cylindrical cage around the fan and using it to vertically scrog. But I usually grow six, full-sized plants around 2 x 600w stacked for up to 1.3-1.4gpw.

In saying that, I need to take back what I said about your system, as I can see how a cool tube is actually an advantage in a stadium-style grow where you just let the plants grow into the tube without burning them (putting side the fact I now know you run a sealed room - positive pressure system?). The genius of using plastic, in your case, is I assume you can just throw it away if it gets dirty or when you've finished with it (which you'd never do with glass) - is that right?

I also assume there's another layer to your aero system that goes on top of the one in the pix: I'm counting 6x4 (6x5?) plants per corner with another layer stacked on top = 240 plants. That is an excellent use of space and an ingenious design, IMO.

Unfortunately, those sorts of plant numbers - small as they be - are not a legal option where I live. What I like about your system is it's a bit "ghetto" but you've obviously put a lot of thought into it and appear to have been very resourceful in how you've gone about things. I appreciate how much work is involved not only in setting up such a system, but in running it, too. Aero is a fickle beast . . .

What strain/s do you run? What type of nutes? And is it a PIA to maintain and clean after each grow? Have you tried running straight HPS instead of HPS/MH mix, or do you find the additional MH keeps the buds a bit more compact and manageable? Digital ballasts? Where's the aircon/dehumidifier?

So many quetions . . . 12 years ago, when I first started growing vertically, I wasn't that conventional either. I guess these days I am.


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## ttystikk (Sep 4, 2016)

sezar29 said:


> I'm not sure if it helps, but what I do is make my own cool tubes out of that insulating plastic that us Canadians put inside our window frames in the winter time. I use a sheet and just make a cylinder out of it between two buckets that I connect to my 6inch ventilation system, the pressure keeps it blown up like those dancing Giants at used car dealerships...View attachment 3761755 View attachment 3761756


That's boss, bro!


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## ttystikk (Sep 4, 2016)

Wow, so many cool tricks in one thread, I'm glad I saw this! 

IME, growing vertical does not reduce the needed watts per square foot, but you can skip deducting the reflector losses.


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## Frajola (Sep 5, 2016)

sezar29 said:


> I'm not sure if it helps, but what I do is make my own cool tubes out of that insulating plastic that us Canadians put inside our window frames in the winter time. I use a sheet and just make a cylinder out of it between two buckets that I connect to my 6inch ventilation system, the pressure keeps it blown up like those dancing Giants at used car dealerships...View attachment 3761755 View attachment 3761756


how s the name of that plastic you used to made a cylinder ? thanks. and well done by the way,congrats.


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## sezar29 (Sep 5, 2016)

Thanks boys!! I appreciate the questions and comments!!

Prawn.. you're right in presuming that I threw away the plastic sometimes, when it does get dirty, I don't even bother to clean it on the inside, I just chuck it and then make a new one, it takes me about 20 minutes.

And for strains..it varies every month per new cycle. C99 is my go to...I have blue cheese, Strawberry Cheese cake, money maker, money bush, cotton candy, black domina, incredible bulk..I can deal with almost any strain, because if they stretch I can just pull them back a little bit more into the box because there is no media. But obviously some are better than others in vertical.

The system is fairly easy to clean, after I'm done I usually run a water and bleach solution through it for about 24 hours and then give it a small scrub and run it again. The boxes that the plants are in sit on the reservoir and drain into them constantly. I made them from one inch styrofoam so that they isolate from the Heat yet they sit on a cold cement floor and suck that cold right up.

I use mh/hps for 4 weeks and then go to only hps..I figured the sun was yellower later in the fall outside... but I have nothing to back that up.

My room is 4 feet wide by 16 feet long, I keep the AC right in the middle. Because at the opposite end of the room I have another set up that's exactly the same. the AC units heat dumps into a box or you can call it a manifold, where my fans pick up their air.

The boxes that the plants are in are 2 feet high and contain 20 plants per corner, and I can stack them 3 boxes High. It's less of an aero setup and more of a vertical nft because anything under the top row gets sloppy seconds haha..and I have a mix of digital and mag ballasts..

Frajola...the plastic is pretty common.. it's insulating window film, a lot of companies make it, I'm sure 3M makes it too. It's the stuff that you put over your window frame when it gets cold out. And then you use a hair dryer to shrink it and make it nice and clear. That's why when you make a tube out of it you have to make it 2 to 3 inches longer than you actually want it because it shrinks with heat. And don't use the two-sided tape that comes with the package, use a nice wide strip of packing tape inside and out.

Here s a few pics from today...tonight for my girls though...day 24 I think...


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## sezar29 (Sep 5, 2016)

I'm a little bit late to take my clones off of them now though... I will get at that today. I'm not sure if taking clones at 21 days has a positive an effect on final yield, Because of that monster cropping effect. Maybe that hormone that causes monster cropping helps in final yield even if you just run one main Cola.


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## ttystikk (Sep 5, 2016)

sezar29 said:


> View attachment 3773614 View attachment 3773612 Thanks boys!! I appreciate the questions and comments!!
> 
> Prawn.. you're right in presuming that I threw away the plastic sometimes, when it does get dirty, I don't even bother to clean it on the inside, I just chuck it and then make a new one, it takes me about 20 minutes.
> 
> ...


I'm not seeing the watering mechanism or am I just not recognizing it in the pics? 

Your numbers are impressive.


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## sezar29 (Sep 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Wow, so many cool tricks in one thread, I'm glad I saw this!
> 
> IME, growing vertical does not reduce the needed watts per square foot, but you can skip deducting the reflector losses.


It s hard to say for sure..I have a total of 72" high x 44" inner diameter. X Pi = 9947sq" or 69sq'...

69sq' ÷ by 4 lights (like I have) = 17.25 sq'

In a flat grow, I presume it would be really hard to light a 17.25sq' area with just a 400 watt light.Plus get a 2.15 gpw average. That leads me to believe it takes less watts...but it can be just a matter of perspective OR my math is bad lol! But I'm always interested in learning or listening to somebody else's perspective, there is never anything to lose by doing that!

Cheers!


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## sezar29 (Sep 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm not seeing the watering mechanism or am I just not recognizing it in the pics?
> 
> Your numbers are impressive.


Here s a few pics that kind of shows how its setup. It's just 4 Aero cloner nozzles per box,screwed into some half inch pipe that are connected to my pump. They spray and it hits the roof of those boxes, then it trickles down onto the roots and drains back into the reservoir.

I have to admit that I used a lot of your advice, knowingly, and probably unknowingly. And I thank you for that.


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## ttystikk (Sep 5, 2016)

sezar29 said:


> Here s a few pics that kind of shows how its setup. It's just 4 Aero cloner nozzles per box,screwed into some half inch pipe that are connected to my pump. They spray and it hits the roof of those boxes, then it trickles down onto the roots and drains back into the reservoir.
> 
> I have to admit that I used a lot of your advice, knowingly, and probably unknowingly. And I thank you for that.


I'm glad I didn't lead you astray, lol

That looks fantastic, frankly!


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## sezar29 (Sep 5, 2016)

To add to my makeshift redneck grow system, here is my redneck cloner LOL Rubbermaid and styrofoam and a $20 air pump, it holds a hundred and twenty.


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## ttystikk (Sep 5, 2016)

sezar29 said:


> View attachment 3773655 View attachment 3773656 To add to my makeshift redneck grow system, here is my redneck cloner LOL Rubbermaid and styrofoam and a $20 air pump, it holds a hundred and twenty.


I'm all about cheap yet effective solutions. What did you put in the cloner water? Did you put the stem of the cutting in the water or keep it above?


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## sezar29 (Sep 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm all about cheap yet effective solutions. What did you put in the cloner water? Did you put the stem of the cutting in the water or keep it above?


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## sezar29 (Sep 5, 2016)

The container holds about 40 liters of water, I used tap water, Idumped in a cap of Voodoo Juice and piranha plus around 40 ml bud candy to feed the critters, and maybe two or three hundred parts per million of Sensi bloom solution from Advanced Nutrients. The solution was just oo automatically pH balance my water because my meter was down. But it worked out well and I just kept doing that.

The stems are directly in the water, but since they are in styrofoam and the Styrofoam floats perfectly level on top of the water, the air pump distribute air bubbles evenly underneath the floating layer. I think that's the only reason why they can make it. 

My cloner used to be the same idea as my growing system but my pump went out one day and I decided to put them directly in the water and it worked out okay. I don't know if it's the best way, I just know that it works and I am not in a rush to get them so I don't count the days that it takes them to root.

Like they say, sometimes most discoveries happen by accident


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## ttystikk (Sep 5, 2016)

sezar29 said:


> The container holds about 40 liters of water, I used tap water, Idumped in a cap of Voodoo Juice and piranha, and maybe two or three hundred parts per million of Sensi bloom solution from Advanced Nutrients. The solution was just oo automatically pH balance my water because my meter was down. But it worked out good and I just kept doing that.
> 
> The stems are directly in the water, but since they are in styrofoam and the Styrofoam floats perfectly level on top of the water, the air pump distribute air bubbles evenly underneath the floating layer. I think that's the only reason why they can make it. My cloner used to be the same idea as my growing system but my pump went out one day and I decided to put them directly in the water and it worked out okay. I don't know if it's the best way, I just know that it works and I am not in a rush to get them so I don't count the days that it takes them to root.
> 
> Like they say, sometimes most discoveries happen by accident


Floating the styrofoam, dig that. Very cool! 

Having your cloning game on point is key to success with that setup.

I grow trees, but my gpw is half yours.


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## sezar29 (Sep 5, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Floating the styrofoam, dig that. Very cool!
> 
> Having your cloning game on point is key to success with that setup.
> 
> I grow trees, but my gpw is half yours.


I know every grow is a lot of work, but I remember that growing trees was easier than what I have going on right now. It takes me 4 or 5 hours a day to keep this machine rolling. And it takes away my social life quite a bit so it might just be short-term. Your yield is more than respectable... some never even achieve that!


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## Prawn Connery (Sep 5, 2016)

Trees are never going to beat SOG. More plants = more root mass. Trees have to grow much longer roots to equal the same root mass as a bunch of small plants, which takes longer and expends more energy on nutrient uptake.

Growing is like racing cars: you wanna go fast, you spend more time working under the hood. You want reliability with low maintenance, you have to accept slightly lower performance. That's why I settled on run-to-waste coco: set and forget with many of the advantages of soil (buffering, heat resistance, moisture-retaining media etc) with almost the same speed as hydro (it technically is hydro). With a large nutrient tank, I can leave my plants for two-three weeks when I go away. Longer, if I have a friend to check on them and top up the nutrient solution after a couple of weeks.

Aero SOG is something I've always wanted to do - done properly, nothing else beats it - but it's a lot of time and effort and you really need to be on your toes.


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## Prawn Connery (Sep 6, 2016)

BTW, I love the styrofoam. In fact, I love everything about your system - it's really well thought-out and you obviously haven't just followed the herd. I can see you've spent a lot of time trying different things and dialing in your grow to get to this point. The real test is when you try to think of something - anything - that could possibly improve upon it . . . and come up short


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## sezar29 (Sep 13, 2016)

Prawn Connery said:


> BTW, I love the styrofoam. In fact, I love everything about your system - it's really well thought-out and you obviously haven't just followed the herd. I can see you've spent a lot of time trying different things and dialing in your grow to get to this point. The real test is when you try to think of something - anything - that could possibly improve upon it . . . and come up short


I'm building a slightly simpler system for a friend, it's going to be a nutrient film vertical set up. I won't go into explaining how it works because NFT    is very simple, but I will include a few pictures to give you guys an idea. And maybe you can build something on your own if you're interested in that type of thing.

The picture with the baby in it is one of the boxes that is half built so you can get an idea of how it is inside, it's basically a 48 inch radius with five levels inside. They hold 20 plants in each quarter circle. Each level has a half inch slope from left to right for the first level, and then right to left on the second level, and so on. Then it dumps into a 40 or 50 liter Rubbermaid container under each box respectively. The rubber Maids are the reservoirs.I include a fifth Rubbermaid that is separate, and I keep my pump in there so there is easy access. They are all connected together with an inch and a quarter sump pump hose. That's how they balance out each other and exchange the nutrient solution. But the actual solution is pumped up with a half inch hose into the top of each box, so four in total off of a manifold made with plastic fittings.


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## ttystikk (Sep 13, 2016)

sezar29 said:


> I'm building a slightly simpler system for a friend, it's going to be a nutrient film vertical set up. I won't go into explaining how it works because NFTView attachment 3779928 View attachment 3779934 View attachment 3779938 View attachment 3779941 is very simple, but I will include a few pictures to give you guys an idea. And maybe you can build something on your own if you're interested in that type of thing.
> 
> The picture with the baby in it is one of the boxes that is half built so you can get an idea of how it is inside, it's basically a 48 inch radius with five levels inside. They hold 20 plants in each quarter circle. Each level has a half inch slope from left to right for the first level, and then right to left on the second level, and so on. Then it dumps into a 40 or 50 liter Rubbermaid container under each box respectively. The rubber Maids are the reservoirs.I include a fifth Rubbermaid that is separate, and I keep my pump in there so there is easy access. They are all connected together with an inch and a quarter sump pump hose. That's how they balance out each other and exchange the nutrient solution. But the actual solution is pumped up with a half inch hose into the top of each box, so four in total off of a manifold made with plastic fittings.


That's fucking badass. The more details I see, the more I like it.


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## Frajola (Sep 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> That's fucking badass. The more details I see, the more I like it.


Like the idea of maximizing sqf_x_W. Do u think those materials will play along w water and nuts without having any issue, or just prototyping ?
Just my 2 cents.


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## Frajola (Sep 13, 2016)

sezar29 said:


> I'm building a slightly simpler system for a friend, it's going to be a nutrient film vertical set up. I won't go into explaining how it works because NFTView attachment 3779928 View attachment 3779934 View attachment 3779938 View attachment 3779941 is very simple, but I will include a few pictures to give you guys an idea. And maybe you can build something on your own if you're interested in that type of thing.
> 
> The picture with the baby in it is one of the boxes that is half built so you can get an idea of how it is inside, it's basically a 48 inch radius with five levels inside. They hold 20 plants in each quarter circle. Each level has a half inch slope from left to right for the first level, and then right to left on the second level, and so on. Then it dumps into a 40 or 50 liter Rubbermaid container under each box respectively. The rubber Maids are the reservoirs.I include a fifth Rubbermaid that is separate, and I keep my pump in there so there is easy access. They are all connected together with an inch and a quarter sump pump hose. That's how they balance out each other and exchange the nutrient solution. But the actual solution is pumped up with a half inch hose into the top of each box, so four in total off of a manifold made with plastic fittings.


wow it is going to hold a lot of plants, like 20 by every 1/4, so its 80 all way around? Seems that is going to be a dense forest. Like it, v good work pal.


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## ttystikk (Sep 13, 2016)

Frajola said:


> Like the idea of maximizing sqf_x_W. Do u think those materials will play along w water and nuts without having any issue, or just prototyping ?
> Just my 2 cents.


Those are building materials that are pretty resistant to water. 

I think that's part of the innovation of this setup; it's inexpensive to the point of being disposable.


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## Frajola (Sep 13, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Those are building materials that are pretty resistant to water.
> 
> I think that's part of the innovation of this setup; it's inexpensive to the point of being disposable.


I hope that really works well , so those materials will be perfect then ez to build w then.


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## sezar29 (Sep 13, 2016)

Frajola said:


> I hope that really works well , so those materials will be perfect then ez to build w then.


Thank you i appreciate it, I'm not sure if the materials screw around with the water and nutrients, but this isn't the first time I'm trying this. I started 10 years ago and eventually got to this point. Unlike most people, I have been doing a lot of reading on these forums, and not asking many questions. Not to say that asking questions is a bad thing, but I just like to do my research on my own because I'm not sure if the person giving me advice is actually qualified to LOL.

My first boxes that I ever made like this were rectangular and about six feet high, and filled with perlite! It took about 40 square yards to fill those boxes. What a freaking nightmare! 480 plants..4000 watts...and a measly 800 gram yield...but we learn from our mistakes.

For a while I was lining the boxes with plastic, but it never made a difference because I think that it all comes out in the flush at the end. I always use Flawless finish and get great results. I wish I still had pictures of all those experiments. And the final product. But I lost everything when my phone went down. I will have pictures of my latest efforts by October 15th.


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## sezar29 (Sep 13, 2016)

Frajola said:


> wow it is going to hold a lot of plants, like 20 by every 1/4, so its 80 all way around? Seems that is going to be a dense forest. Like it, v good work pal.


These are also stackable because each section are only two feet high. When I have enough clones I stack them three rows High and use 4 400 watt bulbs to light the center. That's 240 plants and usually around 8 pound yield. My best performer in there is my Cinderella 99. A phenotype that stood out from all the seeds I got a while back... and I will make sure to keep her around for a while!


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## ttystikk (Sep 13, 2016)

sezar29 said:


> These are also stackable because each section are only two feet high. When I have enough clones I stack them three rows High and use 4 400 watt bulbs to light the center. That's 240 plants and usually around 8 pound yield. My best performer in there is my Cinderella 99. A phenotype that stood out from all the seeds I got a while back... and I will make sure to keep her around for a while!


A good pheno will make your setup really shine, for sure.

Due to the small size of the individual plants, I'm betting that a good indica stain would also kick some ass, that's a weakness of my vertical trees approach.


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## sezar29 (Sep 13, 2016)

That's for sure, I have about 8 strains in there right now that I am just playing with to see what else works. I was also surprised that Cindy was good in the setup like that.

Right now there is unknown bag seed strain,looks and smells like NL. There is also strawberry cheesecake, Blue cheese, Chem fire og, Landrace Hindu Kush, Money maker, Money Bush,Incredible bulk and Black Domina, just off the top of my head... all the pheno's are tagged and will be weighed at the end, I will just keep the top performers and multiply those girls. I plan on keeping a few good Indica strains and the Cindy.


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## Frajola (Sep 14, 2016)

sezar29 said:


> These are also stackable because each section are only two feet high. When I have enough clones I stack them three rows High and use 4 400 watt bulbs to light the center. That's 240 plants and usually around 8 pound yield. My best performer in there is my Cinderella 99. A phenotype that stood out from all the seeds I got a while back... and I will make sure to keep her around for a while!


wow 2.27 gpw? awesome. Please keep us posted.


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## Frajola (Sep 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm glad I didn't lead you astray, lol
> 
> That looks fantastic, frankly!


lol.


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## Michiganjesse (Oct 10, 2016)

I have


sezar29 said:


> I agree with you 100% there...the reason for the tube is that I collect the heat from the a/c and dehui where the intake of my fan is and extract all the heat sources in one shot, plus I don't have a choice since I run a sealed room. I inject pure O2 in the root zone when the pump kicks on at 2-3 cfm for 15 mins..and co2 at1500 during lights on..
> 
> I might not have explained my yields clearly earlier..I basically pull between 12-18 grams per plant depending on strain, x230-240 plants on a full room grow. Under 4 x 400 watt hps and mh 50/50.
> 
> ...


 A bunch of led panels and ufos about 1200 watts and a 300 watt cfl can i set that up in vert? Going to get a 600 hps cool tube when i can afford it. Just gutted and remodeled my whole house top to bottom been broke for the last 6 months but I'm almost done I'll have funds in a few months


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## ttystikk (Oct 10, 2016)

Michiganjesse said:


> I have
> 
> A bunch of led panels and ufos about 1200 watts and a 300 watt cfl can i set that up in vert? Going to get a 600 hps cool tube when i can afford it. Just gutted and remodeled my whole house top to bottom been broke for the last 6 months but I'm almost done I'll have funds in a few months


Yes


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## sezar29 (Oct 17, 2016)

As promised, here's some pics of my latest crap.lol...crop.. ,       there is also a picture of the next 80 clones that were taken off flowering plants at 21 days. They are having that monster cropping effect. I don't know if I like it or not, does anyone know if I trim it to grow as a main Cola, if it will tend to Branch out anyways? Or will the extra energy from the monster cropping hormone be directed into the main Cola?


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## sezar29 (Oct 17, 2016)

Results are 5632 grams wet..I will post dry results after curing plus pics.

750 watts on a vertical light mover, for 6 weeks, and then I set the ballast on overdrive at 1150 watts for the last 2 weeks.

I had 8 strains and they were all pretty much flipped 2 12 hours between 4 and 6 inches. I harvested at 61 days, which was a happy medium between myindicas hybrids and sativas.


I lost 17 plants due to a pump failure. Plus it's stress them out and stunted them for a week or so.

I ran Advanced Nutrients Sensi series. Plus all the fancy shit that they sell to go with it, I feel like an idiot, but I just had to try it. Next time I will be making my nutrients from scratch myself. For a fraction of the cost.


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## ttystikk (Oct 18, 2016)

sezar29 said:


> Results are 5632 grams wet..I will post dry results after curing plus pics.
> 
> 750 watts on a vertical light mover, for 6 weeks, and then I set the ballast on overdrive at 1150 watts for the last 2 weeks.
> 
> ...


Interesting stuff there, I'd like to see more pics of your setup.


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## sezar29 (Oct 18, 2016)

Let me know if you have any questions about the setup. I'm not sure exactly which part you want to see . Keep in mind that it's built on the cheapest budget possible. I just have $100 sub pump and 2 garden hoses jumping into the top of each box. The nutrients make their way down for levels and needs box AZ nutrient film technique. But my last crop was owpressur Arrowoponics


ttystikk said:


> Interesting stuff there, I'd like to see more pics of your setup.


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## Greenthumbskunk (Oct 19, 2016)

sezar29 said:


> View attachment 3807786 As promised, here's some pics of my latest crap.lol...crop..View attachment 3807788 View attachment 3807792, View attachment 3807796 View attachment 3807794 View attachment 3807798 View attachment 3807802 View attachment 3807805 View attachment 3807807 there is also a picture of the next 80 clones that were taken off flowering plants at 21 days. They are having that monster cropping effect. I don't know if I like it or not, does anyone know if I trim it to grow as a main Cola, if it will tend to Branch out anyways? Or will the extra energy from the monster cropping hormone be directed into the main Cola?




Hmmmm????? Lmao

Not sure what to think of this. Did i miss something where you had a problem with your grow? Do you sell that of what is in your pics???


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## BurnzAU (Oct 19, 2016)

Is your finished product always like that?


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## sezar29 (Oct 19, 2016)

Greenthumbskunk said:


> Hmmmm????? Lmao
> 
> Not sure what to think of this. Did i miss something where you had a problem with your grow? Do you sell that of what is in your pics???


No you didn't t miss anything...I wasn't posting the progress of the grow.

Product is for friends and family.


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## sezar29 (Oct 19, 2016)

BurnzAU said:


> Is your finished product always like that?


I'm not sure what to tell you...is it always like what exactly? For yields? Quality? Looks? Let me know..thanks


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## ttystikk (Oct 19, 2016)

sezar29 said:


> I'm not sure what to tell you...is it always like what exactly? For yields? Quality? Looks? Let me know..thanks


I'd like to see pics of finished product. 

I still think your styrofoam stadium is straight genius, bro.


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## Greenthumbskunk (Oct 19, 2016)

sezar29 said:


> I'm not sure what to tell you...is it always like what exactly? For yields? Quality? Looks? Let me know..thanks



This is a c99 file photo. 




You have a good set up on your engineering of your set up but your finished product has some serious issues. 
Not real sure whats going on with it. 
One time i had an outdoor plant that looked like that and i sent pics of it and dude told me it was a "runt plant" didnt really produce bud but looked just like yours. It had crystals on the leaves but not any normal looking bud. It had colas bigger than gal milk jugs. Cutting off those buds off the plant it produced something like 12-15 lbs if i remember right. I had a guy buy it for $25 per ounce. Still got you some medicine but man was it some messed up looking product. I was going to throw it all away. All the clones off it was identicle to the mother. So it was all tossed. 

I have grown c99 for around 10 years (took this spring and summer off though) , its good bud and can yield very well. The iced grapefruit pheno is very nice for me. 

To be honest with you if all your bud looks like that you need somebody you can trust to show you how to grow some quality weed. With nice fat beautiful buds. You have some talent for some out of the box ideas. Like to see you produce quality bud as well. 

I want you to produce bud like this random file photo here off the web. And im sure you can, just those pics are not the best representive of your hard work.


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## cindysid (Oct 19, 2016)

I like your design and you've come up with some very innovative ideas, many of which I would like to try, but the density of your buds is not that great. I think they need more light


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## ttystikk (Oct 19, 2016)

Aha! These are monster cropped! THAT'S why your buds look weird, bro. They never had a chance to revert to their vegetative state.

Your plants need to fully reveg and then you can properly flower them.

The good news is that they can be blown down into concentrates with good results.


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## platt (Oct 22, 2016)

nah, and it doesnt looks weird, its just stressed tissue, stressed growth, hormone flow disbalances... whatever instead monstercroppIn damage (regardless it looks thats happening, i just wont admit it today^)...
It looks more like a hard deal with gravitropism+apical dominance but who knows it really?.. What is sure is the plant itself tend to buffer biotic+abiotic stress in the first 5 minutes right after the stress input, aprox 2 days before we realize about it.

Anyway sezar here they are good vertical sog growers, dont be shy, ask whatever and go for the next run like theres no tomorrow


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## Fevs (Oct 22, 2016)

Only problems with a set up like this is this.. if your fan fails, your plants are going to set fire within 5-10 minutes. I'd never grow like that for safety reasons. Still killer yields. I'd rather use a bigger area and grow safely myself.

Didn't heath robinson quit growing vertically and switch to horizontal?


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## ttystikk (Oct 22, 2016)

Fevs said:


> Only problems with a set up like this is this.. if your fan fails, your plants are going to set fire within 5-10 minutes. I'd never grow like that for safety reasons. Still killer yields. I'd rather use a bigger area and grow safely myself.
> 
> Didn't heath robinson quit growing vertically and switch to horizontal?


You forget that heat rises. It won't cook the plants, as it rises up and away from them.


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## Frajola (Oct 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'd like to see pics of finished product.
> 
> I still think your styrofoam stadium is straight genius, bro.


I agree, its a beautiful example of how to maximize space x watts, very inspiring. Thanks for sharing Sezar29.


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## sezar29 (Oct 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'd like to see pics of finished product.
> 
> I still think your styrofoam stadium is straight genius, bro.


Here are some dry pics...the pic of the larf plant was one of 4 c99 phenos that will be def shit canned, but I do realize that there is a better variation than the one I do have, and I appreciate all the input and positive comments! I will try my best to put the pics in this order respectively.

Candy (delicious seeds )
Master kush x Hindu Kush
Jack (delicious seeds)
C99 pheno 4 can t remember which company.
Money bush (heavyweight)
Money maker (strain hunters)
Blue cheese
Strawberry Cheese cake (heavy weight)
Black Domina? ?


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## Frajola (Oct 22, 2016)

sezar29 said:


> Here are some dry pics...the pic of the larf plant was one of 4 c99 phenos that will be def shit canned, but I do realize that there is a better variation than the one I do have, and I appreciate all the input and positive comments! I will try my best to put the pics in this order respectively.
> 
> Candy (delicious seeds )
> Master kush x Hindu Kush
> ...


How was the Money Maker from Strain Hunters? I just poped 2 seeds from then.


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## sezar29 (Oct 22, 2016)

Frajola said:


> How was the Money Maker from Strain Hunters? I just poped 2 seeds from then.


They were a little less than average for me, but I have to take into account that they were on the lower row of my setup, and they didn't get all the benefits in regards 2 lighting. But out of 6 seeds that I had, 3 seems really promising and one in particular seemed to do really well. So hopefully you get a really good phenotype. I wish I could help you out some more.


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## Frajola (Oct 22, 2016)

sezar29 said:


> They were a little less than average for me, but I have to take into account that they were on the lower row of my setup, and they didn't get all the benefits in regards 2 lighting. But out of 6 seeds that I had, 3 seems really promising and one in particular seemed to do really well. So hopefully you get a really good phenotype. I wish I could help you out some more.


I started 2 beans of each, Tangerine Dream, White Widow, Purple Haze, S Lemon Haze, Money Maker, Amherst Sour Diesel, Dream Machine ,Incredible Bulk...fem & and 5 Jelly Bean(reg) gotta see who is who later. 
Im about to start my very first vert grow. Thinking on a kind of wall of green I got a room surrounded by orange thick plastic trellis and Im going to fill it up with weed and good tips from my RIU' fellas so I think u will have plenty of room and time to do so, many thanks in advance.


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## Fevs (Oct 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You forget that heat rises. It won't cook the plants, as it rises up and away from them.


Actually, nah you are wrong, I didn't forget that at all, I know heat rises! A grow lamp that is positioned as close to the plants in the some of the photo's on this thread with the fan going, has decent temps and airflow. A lamp that close to the plants without a fan going is a fire risk. If you want to take that chance, that's up to you. Safety 1st for me.

Nice set up for you, but that ain't for me. I always go to town on safety though. I even have fans blowing on the ballasts.

Not putting down your set up. Growing indoors has a certain amount of fire risk however you grow.


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## BurnzAU (Oct 23, 2016)

Frajola said:


> How was the Money Maker from Strain Hunters? I just poped 2 seeds from then.


Strain Hunters lol. Another one of Arjans money making schemes. Id stay away from anything with GHS' name on it.


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## Frajola (Oct 23, 2016)

BurnzAU said:


> Strain Hunters lol. Another one of Arjans money making schemes. Id stay away from anything with GHS' name on it.


Lets see what I got from then , but thanks for the tip I will keep a eye on that particular strain and see how it goes.


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## sezar29 (Jan 27, 2017)

Frajola said:


> Lets see what I got from then , but thanks for the tip I will keep a eye on that particular strain and see how it goes.


How did the money maker pan out for you?


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## Frajola (Jan 29, 2017)

sezar29 said:


> How did the money maker pan out for you?


Thanks for asking mate,
Not buying again Money maker.
Beans from Green House Seed Co, are out too, I bought a WW fem beans and turn out they were autos, also SLH very slow growth and low germ rate as well.
Barney's Farm is another despoilment w Tangerine Dream. 0% germ rate.
Best beans I bought were at RIU.
peace.


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## BushMaster15 (Feb 1, 2017)

All of those companies will tell you whatever you want to hear to sell their snake oil.


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## gr865 (Feb 2, 2017)

I purchased some GHS Exodus Cheese through Seedsman Seeds and it is a keeper, but my mother died before I started any more clones off her.
Just my experience, my buddy says that all seed companies put their seed in a big mixer and you get what you get. LOL
Have had good experiences with Barneys Farm and TGA genetics. Black Widow from Mr. Nice Seeds was a bust.
Actually some of the best product I have gotten is from a private breeder in Nor Cal, beautiful plants, good genetics and a very decent stone. The reason I don't use more of his stuff is it's not very good medical for my conditions.

GR


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