# Pure psychedelic sativa 12/12 from seed 150W HPS grow



## simisimis (May 7, 2013)

So, this is my 4th actual grow. I started growing on august 2012 an auto with epic fails in every department and with 1g of yield, then two grows went quite alright but not what I expected, due to not adding enough lights or reusing soil from first grow thus causing a lot deficiencies which I was unable to control because of the lack of knowledge. Kept reading RIU ever since and learning from the best and still feel like I'm not even a half way there.. However I am positive about my upcoming grow and ready to take stretchy and lanky pure sativa challenge in a very limited grow space.

_Beans: ACE seeds "Zamaldelica" and CannaBiogen "Destroyer". 
_
Both are pure sativas, with a 14weeks of flower time. Chose them for psychedelic pheno.

Soil: Gold Label: Special mix
Lights: 150W HPS, 2x25W 2700K cfl, 2x 25W 6500K cfl.
Nutes: Biobizz Biogrow *NPK 4-3-6* throughout the grow, Aptus CaMg-boost *NCaMg 9-9-2* for Ca mg def and GK organics *Seaweed* for micros supplement.
Medium: 1x 3gal 1x5gal buckets
Vent: 1 6" clip fan + 2 pc fans
Misc: MicroKote plant container coating for root spin out.

Task: plants cannot get higher than 2.5 foot tall otherwise I'll need another room.
Plan: top it above second node to get 4 main colas after it will grow ~5 nodes and LST to get additional 8 side branches (2 per stem).

Dropped seeds into water on 2nd of May, Sprouted and broke the surface on 5th of May.

1st Zamaldelica as green as it can get  
2nd Destroyer










Printed myself a garden calendar for easy tracing of watering and feeding dates, cleaned a room. Will harvest two of my C99 in 4 days and keep my Super Lemon Haze for ~2 more weeks with them for a company both benefitting the same lights. Also will try to reveg one of my Cindies cause I really liked the phenos it had.

Ok, now that being said - *Let the grow begin!*


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## Kite High (May 8, 2013)

subscribed


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## mandy1 (May 8, 2013)

sativas- and especially those sativas need lots more than 150w. i run 1k hps and dubi from ace recommended only 2 or 3 plants per light.


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## kushhound187 (May 8, 2013)

Your light is nowher near enough to make this worth it. You could grow one mandala satori, one greenhouse lemon haze or one gh arjans haze no3. only a midget ass sativa would grow under a 150. a fullterm big sativa will produce some wispy ass schwagg buds. tropical pLants need INTENSE LIGHT. No serioussativa can survive off a 150. even a single plant, it will stretch, and just not yeild for shit under that light.and you are vegging with hps. prepare for stretch bro.

im not being mean, but your light will not be enogh. the rest seems fine, but even with full mylar coverage, that light is barley enogh for 3 indicas. i worry for this grow. i wouldnt put more than 1 satori under a 150. id be scarred to try any big ass sativa under less than a 250... minimum


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## Kite High (May 8, 2013)

pinch and tie pinch tie and bend


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## kushhound187 (May 8, 2013)

I top but never lst. im not that adventurous.i tried scrog. not for me. i try abd be as natural as possibke.

go kite tho, you are right. tecnicaly its doable. i just think the results would be shakey for such a new grower. im not new to growing, but never tried lst. im scared to try unless someone shows me hands on. Otherwise i stick to what i know.

small sativa hybrids are best for this style of grow. to be honest tho, i wouldnt even touch a 150. smallest i would consider is 250, and i would only contemplate such a thing if i had just got outta the can and all my shit was siezed. other than that, i would never step away feom my 1000 switchable dimms. cant beat em


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## simisimis (May 9, 2013)

yes, i know, light is nowhere near the appropriate, yet i dare to take a challenge  its 12/12 from seed, it will have 4x25w 6500k above their heads with hps in a background in early stages and some 2700k cfl for side lighting, later all cfl will side light the place and hps above the tops, I lsted my last 2 grows and i really liked the way c99 reacted, except for super lemon haze, it had to be topped first, only then lsted, i might have a lot of problems, i might need to get extra lights, or move to another grow room, but i have a feeling that i am going to yield at least 1oz per plant, and that is something i would be happy with. thanks for the input, that helps me visualize what i am going to face...



> They said it can't be done...


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## simisimis (May 10, 2013)

Day 4.
Well not much to say, plants are doing ok I would say, healthy-green colored leaves, new growth coming out. Destroyer leaves are a bit wider and color is a bit more bright green than zamal. zamal margins are a bit messed up, maybe some heat stress, although I would really doubt, maybe 37% of humidity, probably next set of leaves will tell me better if she will want anything.. Doing some foliage spray and the very top of soil just to moisten atmosphere around the plant.
Pics: zamal
 
Destroyer:


Today in a grocery store i found some plant feeding for a really cheap price ~$2 per liter. As advertised on package it is for room, balcony and bedding plants. It has N-P-K of 7-3-5 which is way closer to 3-1-2 than Biobizz Biogrow I have(4-3-6). On a packing it says 7% total N consisting of: 1.75% nitrate, 1.75 amonium, 3.5% urea forms of N. 3% soluble P and 5% soluble K. 
I wonder if it is any good. cause the price is scarring low. In case the cheap one ratio is better, then I am taking another thing into consideration - on Mel Franks book author wrote that in less intensive lighting N-K ratio should be 1:2 while under 1000W HID or sun around 1:1, if that is true, with my 150W HPS biogrow nutes would be even better.. Again this is just ideas and assumptions.


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## simisimis (May 16, 2013)

Day 10 since seeds sprouted. Because of lack of space in a grow room and I did not have a spare timer, I kept those seeds 24/0 for 5 days and on 11th of May, after I harvested two of my plants, I switched zamal and dest to 12/12. so today is 5th day into flowering. I'll make some pics after I'll get back home. now I'll just drop some observations. Girls look ok, first set of true leaves are a bit wrinkled, maybe because of heat or dry air or some other factors but does not seem to affect the growth. Another interesting thing that is different from other grows is that after chute leaves there went 1blade leaves and after that I was expecting 3blade leaves, but got 5blade instead. Maybe has to do with early flowering, maybe just genetics. In a beginning when plants are not changing that rapidly and I check on them 2 times per day even those small details entertain me )) Temps are a bit difficult to control, have to keep door open and fan blowing at them to get 75-82F, at night it drops to 63-65F. So far plants did not stretch more than any other seeds I planted before, probably plants are working on their root system, I have 85W of 6500K 1-3" above their heads and 150W hps one foot away. 
I ordered GE 150W CMH of 3000K color. I am pretty sure that fs-hps with 2000K made my previous grow stretch like hell, cause even with cfls a grow before I did not have this insane stretch.. Hopefully my magnetic ballast which support hps/mh will work with this lamp. 
Also I ordered microkote from ebay. They do not deliver this item to NL, but it does to UK. New challenge of getting this thing at my house, hopefully will get it in 3 weeks before the time comes to transplant...


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## simisimis (May 17, 2013)

Pics of this morning. 6 days into flowering. There is some curly growing at a lower part and some margins curling up. Not sure what it is, but suspecting heat stress. Here are some pics.
Zamaldelica:


Destroyer:


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## sadface (May 17, 2013)

subbed! curious how a 12/12 from seed grow does on sativas


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## simisimis (May 17, 2013)

yeah man, I'm curious too )) 

found today my Aptus CaMg-boost % listing, somebody wrote aptus an email asking for specific details and got this answer:
Aptus CaMg-Boost : 9% N , 9% CaO , 2% MgO + 20% amino-acids

it's just that everything I've read so far everybody talked about macros and micro(trace) elements. But amino acids? are they some sort of alternative to micros, or they are proteins made of micros.. hm, I must not sound very competent.. But if I google I cannot find how amino acids are related with macros or micros. They are used as plant building material, but so does elements.. 

Also I found very nice alternative at least from specs listing:
Metrop Calgreen : total nitrogen (N) 15.00% - nitrate (N) 12.10% - ammonia (N) 0.90% - urea (N) 2.00% - calcium (CaO) soluble in water 22.50% - magnesium (Mg) soluble in water 3.00% - iron (Fe) soluble in water, chelated by EDTA 0.075% - manganese (Mn) soluble in water, chelated by EDTA 0.15% - copper (Cu) soluble in water, chelated by EDTA 0.060% - zinc (Zn) soluble in water, chelated by EDTA 0.030% - boron (B) soluble in water 0.075% - molybdenum (Mo) soluble in water 0.0015%

but the later one is made for hydroponics. does that still work with organic grow?


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## simisimis (May 21, 2013)

Got so frustrated this morning. 6 days ago I bought from ebay microkote bottle for $10 with $15 shipping cost, it supposed to land in uk, and somebody would ship it to me from there. 
2oz bottle+shipping from uk to nl... Yup, that much I care for them ) And still package was not shipped and I did not get any response from seller... So this morning wrote again to seller and after an hour got a response - sorry, missed your order, will ship today... rofl... my first reply on microkote! and I was already thinking that my english was degrading into engRish... so if everything will go fine, I will be having microkote and cmh lamp within 3 weeks, hopefully I will not need to upcan it before the package will arrive(now they are in 1gal pots). 

Plants are doing very well from what I understand "well" is. Destroyer is growing a bit faster, well actually their about the same size, but Dest is with longer side branches. So far no stretching, nodes are quite tight. Will make some pics tonight. can't wait to top them and start training and applying "no yellowing or leaf drop" technique throughout the grow.


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## simisimis (May 22, 2013)

15th day from sprout, 10th into flower:
Destroyer:


Zamal:


and here's how their side shoots look like:
Dest:


Zamal:


As you can see they are about the same size, but dest is growing a bit faster, longer side branches bigger internodes.


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## EasyPound (May 22, 2013)

Subbed, interested and bet ya we'll be surprised how well he does.... just a hunch....


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## Kite High (May 22, 2013)

simisimis said:


> 15th day from sprout, 10th into flower:
> Destroyer:
> View attachment 2666869View attachment 2666870
> 
> ...


nice...so when you gonna top 'em


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## simisimis (May 22, 2013)

Well I saw on UB topping thread he said top when 4-6 shoots will apear.. From the pic you can see that fourth set of fan leaves is on the way to open, and fifth is somewhere inside. When do you think I should top them? Do not want to do that too early, but I want to do that as fast as possible, so no more energy would be wasted on top growth...


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## Kite High (May 22, 2013)

Do it now. It will be fine


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## simisimis (May 22, 2013)

Kite High said:


> Do it now. It will be fine


nice, will do that after I'll get back from work then. Thanks again



EasyPound said:


> Subbed, interested and bet ya we'll be surprised how well he does.... just a hunch....


haha, thanks EasyPound for kind words, they make me feel more confident and motivated

Also got an email from ebay seller that microkote has been dispatched, so maybe I'll get my cmh lamp and microkote in less than two weeks.

Oh and btw, one more observation, my last C99 grow in a 5 gallon pot yielded 1oz, BUT I was amazed by the root ball it had... all 5 gallons were filled with roots... So having proper root ball alone is not enough.. but I'm sure that root ball + maintained green foliage throughout the grow is the key

Peace!


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## Kite High (May 22, 2013)

and light and ventilation and proper temps and proper rh...all of it brother...you have to have all conditions at optimum


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## simisimis (May 22, 2013)

Kite High said:


> and light and ventilation and proper temps and proper rh...all of it brother...you have to have all conditions at optimum


oh yeah and those ))
i just went through my previous grows and checked how my 14days plants looked, these ones 5 days vegged, 10days 12/12 and still alr 2 times bigger than previous plants. radical change is ventilator blowing at them and hps running in a background...


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## hopeyougotadutch (May 22, 2013)

NICE! That destroyer is....destroying it. Other than topping, any other plans to control height? 12-14+ weekers right?


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## simisimis (May 22, 2013)

well I am thinking between this:

this is a scheme after topping. 
1. On the left is if I would lst after first set of shoots and then let it grow (12 shoots in total)
2. On the right - is after I would get first set of shoots i would top the rest and let only side branches grow (8 shoots).
3. Not in the scheme: if I would just let those 4 colas grow. 

well most of all I like number 2. in that case I would have 8 shorter colas. if I would have enough vertical space probably I would go for 3 option, since plant is in flowering and extra topping and LSTing is not a thing I would like plants to experience.. 
if this would be c99, I would manage to make number 1 with fine results, a nice bush, but if those strains would react like Super Lemon Haze, I could not do sht for them with lst... 
so I am a bit at a loss.. If I would know how much it will stretch would be easier to chose from. 

Two things that make me doubt about 2nd option:
a. I do not know if it is a good idea to top the plant 2nd time cause it is in flowering and I believe 1st topping will be already painful.
b. is it really going to stretch that much so I cannot go with 4 main colas?

Or this is a thing I would like not to, but if I have to I would be willing to move out to another room. But that would be a worst case scenario.

What do you think guys about those options? 
Note: I have only 2.5 feet of vertical space that plant can use to stretch(excluding roots/pot).


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## Kite High (May 22, 2013)

my rec top and then lst the crap out of them...they gonna stretch like mad


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## simisimis (May 23, 2013)

so... plants got executed yesterday. Destroyer is showing some real passion to grow  Zamal is also doing quite nice. I topped them yesterday 1 hour before dark period and this morning 30min after lights went on I saw that side branches have already got bigger...
upper top: zamal
lower top: dest


Destroyer:

Zamaldelica:


And my new training plan ))


My CMH is alr waiting in UK for microkote, while microkote has been seen in Cincinnati yesterday. Hopefully next week I am going to get my items.

Peace!


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## hopeyougotadutch (May 23, 2013)

Looking good sim. Looks like you'll be doing some LST in no time.


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## mickythefish (May 23, 2013)

Things are looking good, are you going for the swastika look with your training plan


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## simisimis (May 23, 2013)

hopeyougotadutch said:


> Looking good sim. Looks like you'll be doing some LST in no time.





mickythefish said:


> Things are looking good, are you going for the swastika look with your training plan


haha thanks guys. Yeah that's what a joke(pic) was about. In my country it's considered bad to joke about it, but oh well.. can't be living in a fear of some symbol.. it's history.

Anyway, now when I think more about it, I see that it might be most effective pattern.. although this is not concrete cause you can plan to train on all the patterns in the world, but plant will just say no to them like it happened for me with slh lol


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## mickythefish (May 23, 2013)

haha very true. I know what you mean some plants can be hard to train well


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## hopeyougotadutch (May 23, 2013)

Have you fed the girls yet, or are they depending on what's in the soil so far?


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## simisimis (May 23, 2013)

I add a bit(2-3ml/L) of GK organics seaweed, but I do not give any nutes yet, except for this additive.. soil has some ferts in it as well... I will be waiting at least for chute leaves to die off and then will try to read the plant..


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## hopeyougotadutch (May 23, 2013)

Yea, I'm ready for any possible nitrogen deficiency for next run. Did you just add the seaweed or was it added before planting? or....


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## simisimis (May 23, 2013)

hopeyougotadutch said:


> Yea, I'm ready for any possible nitrogen deficiency for next run. Did you just add the seaweed or was it added before planting? or....


hopefully I'm also ready  I added seaweed myself since I bought it running around desperately trying to solve problems that did not exist. Well according to a paper whats written on the bottle:



> Seaweed Liquid is made &#8203;&#8203;of cold processed seaweed that is good for plants and soil. Seaweed Liquid is a natural plant booster that improves the growth of the roots and the leaves resulting in larger flowers and fruits. Additionally Seaweed Liquid reduces stress when the plant is repotted. Liquid Seaweed may well be used in combination with all types of nutrients. Liquid Seaweed is used in the garden, and potting soil or other mediums.
> 2-5 ml per liter, give 1x per week with the water. Start with 2 ml per liter when it comes to seedlings and young plants and finish with 5ml per liter when it comes to adult plants.


but then again, on big mikes Advanced Nutrient ripoff crap it says that they are the best... 35eu for rhino skin potassium silicate 1% of actual thing while less than $15 cots 7.8% Dyna-Gro pro-tekt. so the only phrase on a bottle saying that I can use that as an additive with regular feeding I took as true thing and will see if that will make any effect on my kiddos. When buying this I thought I am going to solve all of my trace elements problems in that soil, however there is not even msds listing of what that liquid seaweed contains so.. nute based on placebo effect I guess. 

Today I found in one dynagro distributor webpage dyna-gro folliage pro, cal-mag and pro-tekt. I saw it already, but buying 8oz bottle for 6 pounds and paying 18 for delivery was not acceptable, but I saw that all three 8oz bottles together with shipping cost 36 pounds.. now that's a bit better.. might be considering on ordering that. 

So I add those 2-3 ml per liter just in case it actually does affect root growth..


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## Kite High (May 23, 2013)

simisimis said:


> I add a bit(2-3ml/L) of GK organics seaweed, but I do not give any nutes yet, except for this additive.. soil has some ferts in it as well... I will be waiting at least for chute leaves to die off and then will try to read the plant..


just go lightly on the nutes...like 1/4 dose...do not depend on the seaweed to provide much...is ok additive but will not provide enough of anything on its own


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## simisimis (May 23, 2013)

Kite High said:


> just go lightly on the nutes...like 1/4 dose...do not depend on the seaweed to provide much...is ok additive but will not provide enough of anything on its own


so you say I should already start giving 1/4th of grow food and not wait till the plant will start showing deficiencies? 

Yeah I was not depending on a seaweed, I was just putting in some 2ml/L according to the instructions that start with 2ml from seedling and increase gradually till harvest up to 5ml/L. Do you think I also should give like less than 1ml/L for starters?
Thanks


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## Kite High (May 23, 2013)

Never wait for def to show!!


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## simisimis (May 23, 2013)

thanks Kite, everyday a new tip, if not posted on my thread, then on somebody else's 
Greatly appreciate it!


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## Kite High (May 23, 2013)

Just sharing what I have learned from MANY mistakes and research and experience


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## MrEDuck (May 23, 2013)

I'm subbed to watch this, I love the long flowering sativas. LST can keep plants really compact and let you get the most out of that light.


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## Kite High (May 23, 2013)

u stalker u...lol


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## MrEDuck (May 24, 2013)

Not my fault we have similar taste bro!


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## simisimis (May 27, 2013)

3 weeks since the seeds sprouted. 6th day after topping. Destroyer reacted to it quite easy, just said to me something like "yeah man whatever I'm growing the other way then". But zamal was sort of stressed out.. only yesterday I started seeing some noticeable visual change. On Ace seeds website they said that zamal is bushy. maybe that's why it has shorter internodes. look how strechy are Dest side branches and how short zamal is..
Dest:

Zamal:


In a week I'm expecting to get my copper coating, will paint it my pots and upcan. I doubt that they will be root bounded after 4 weeks from seed in 1gal pots. 
Cheers!


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## MrEDuck (May 28, 2013)

They look good. I'd LST the tops a little to let the bottom two catch up to the top ones for a more even canopy.


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## simisimis (May 29, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> They look good. I'd LST the tops a little to let the bottom two catch up to the top ones for a more even canopy.


actually that's what I did after taking those pictures  started forming T shape on destroyer. since last time I posted looks like zamal started to do her growing as well, will have to start LSTing her as well. will make some pics tomorrow. don't want to overflow this thread with too many pics.


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## Kite High (May 29, 2013)

pic it up bro...never too many pics


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## simisimis (May 30, 2013)

yeah, I also enjoy looking at them not only growing. Like i.e. your 3 weeks garden which blew my mind of  unbelievable.. This is what I call of being in full control of your garden. Respect for that KH 

Now report on psy-garden.

Today my microkote and cmh package will be getting to UK post office to be sent out to me. finally. lol I bought microkote on a very nice timing, cause after they sent my order, they changed shipping cost from $16 to $38. 

Zamal is really back to business. Looks like her stress is a history.
I really enjoy topping for 4 main colas so far, not like trying to control one stem all over the place with LST, but instead you get plant going four different directions. nice. 
Also Destroyer got her first preflowers.. in a pic you can see tiny stigmas.

here are some pics of Day 24 from sprout:
Dest:


Zamal:


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## Kite High (May 30, 2013)

Looking good my friend. Lovin it


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## simisimis (May 30, 2013)

Kite High said:


> Looking good my friend. Lovin it


thanks man for the kind words  positive feedback makes me feel that I'm on a right direction


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## Kite High (May 30, 2013)

Its going to be a bit before I can do my zamaldelica grow as following the c99 current grow I will be doing a multi strain grow for hemp cure oil manufacture so I am watching yours closely...from what I have read elsewhere's on grows and smoke reports is she is extremely trippy moreso than the regular seeds version which is thai x zamal x malawi the fems are malawi x zamal...also good yield and all phenos were superb... i can't wait to grow mine..so lusting over yours


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## simisimis (May 30, 2013)

hehe referee is watching so I cannot screw up on this ) Will try to make it into detail and descriptive journal then. Also I am expecting critics from you nd other people who read. Only then I can make progress 

Kite I also read that through vapo you get way more trippy effect and in general sativa type high than from regular bong or joint smoking. And I think I remember reading in some threads that you smoke with vaporizer. Maybe that's why you get more out of Cindy? Cause I had some really nice experience, but maybe ~5 times, the rest was a bit trippy, but more giggly and speedy buzz. Quite intense and long lasting high I would say lol, minimum 3-4hours.
Of course this can be also because of my growing room and environment conditions I fail to deliver at full potential..


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## Kite High (May 30, 2013)

c99 is trippy in a joint pipe and supertrippy in a vape and watch cartoons on the wall with c99 bho in my vape....but she trips me in regular smoking as ell...and lemme tell you I stay high...I am awake means I am baked


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## simisimis (May 30, 2013)

Kite High said:


> c99 is trippy in a joint pipe and supertrippy in a vape and watch cartoons on the wall with c99 bho in my vape....but she trips me in regular smoking as ell...*and lemme tell you I stay high...I am awake means I am baked*


lol that last part got me laughing )) 

For me it adds colors to my life for sure, like every single corner at home starts glowing or white squares on chess board linoleum in the kitchen starts moving (later it appeared to be caused by my white cats running through me). But all those additional things goes over clear head buzz. I really wish I could get a toke through vapo, I wonder how much stronger and more effective that one is, but 200eu at the moment is not something I would invest in vapo.. maybe in Amsterdam there are coffeeshops which lets you smoke through vapos as an additional service..


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## MrEDuck (May 30, 2013)

Looking nice man! You going to circle the pot with those branches?


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## simisimis (May 30, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> Looking nice man! You going to circle the pot with those branches?


hehe thanks, well I'm not quite sure what you mean by circle pot with branches.. 

What I was planning to go, wait till copper container coating will arive, then I would paint one 3gal and one 5gal pots and replant zamal and dest into them while burying stem up to cotyledons. and then LST those branches to 4 different directions and if will be stretching too fast then somehow bend them like in a pic I posted few pages ago, sort of swastika like ) its just that I'm not experienced enough to foresee how exactly plants will develop, so probably I'll just go wit'da'flow )


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## MrEDuck (May 30, 2013)

That's what I was talking about. I forgot you were the person planning on that. My training is pretty much done for this cycle and I doubt I'm going to need to do much more and the next grow I think is going to be a sea of green because I have a bunch of beans that I want to pop and select keepers from currently, but I want to try it, I like training plants to stay compact and make them grow where I want.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Jun 1, 2013)

subbed, your sativas look good man.


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## simisimis (Jun 3, 2013)

MEANGREEN69 said:


> subbed, your sativas look good man.


Thanks man for the kind words 

some update on my girls 
last time I went away for a week and my friend was looking after my cats and plants, she did not raise the cfls as I asked to, so main cola got burned, this time was only 3 days however to be on a safe side I raised lamp higher so she would need only water them..
Zamal surprised me quite a lot. It was way behind Destroyer and now they are both about the same size. Zamal quit short internodes thing and switched to long ones lol, so much for the bushiness ) Hopefully I will get my coating today cause I do feel that they would really like to spread their roots in some more comfortable medium. Also CMH would give some 3K color instead of 2K of current FS-HPS.
Plants are looking beautiful, at least for my novice eyes, Destroyer on all four branches now have preflowers, Zamal still did not show any sign of them. Chute leaves died. I started seeing some deficiencies on the 1-leaflet leaves. Do not know if it's deficiency, cause since I topped the plants, as side branches are growing quite rapidly and their stems becoming fatter, those 1 blade leaves are being pushed down and they get little light, so maybe that causes them to die off. All other leaves are looking beautifully green. Now I since I finally harvested my SLH, they will get more light and fresh air. Here are some pics Dest, her preflowers, zamal and the grow area. Photos are a bit high on light, but I had to increase light so the HPS stripes would disappear.
Dest

zamal


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## MrEDuck (Jun 3, 2013)

They look good, when are they going into bigger pots?


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## EasyPound (Jun 3, 2013)

That plant is growing beautifully! Looks great and that 150 watt'r doesn't seem to be holding you back!


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## simisimis (Jun 3, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> They look good, when are they going into bigger pots?


well hopefully I am going to get microkote container coating tomorrow, so will try to paint containers and after they dry(if not tomorrow, then Wednesday before work) I will replant them. If delivery bhoy will fail to visit me, I'm gonna have to treat him like south park did to amazon man.. ok just kidding, anyway, plants look like they would like to be upcanned, cause they alr drain water in two days.. Really not used to that, since all I grew before needed watering not sooner than every three days.. 



EasyPound said:


> That plant is growing beautifully! Looks great and that 150 watt'r doesn't seem to be holding you back!


thanks man, yeah, they do look pretty. And seeing Zamal taking bases as fast as destroyer makes me even more happy. About that 150W.. in my diy hps-cfl reflector I can put one hps and 6x cfl. so far I've been vegging with 150W 2050K hps and 85W of 6500K cfls, now that I removed additional plant, and left only those two, I removed 35W cfl, so in total it's 200W atm.. Anyway later I am thinking that when the hood will go up, and plants will stretch, I will be trying to add those cfls as a side lighting. But planning not to go over 250W in total.. Electricity costs a lot in here.. like $0.33 per 1kwh..


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## Kite High (Jun 3, 2013)

nice...bend snap tie twist


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## EasyPound (Jun 3, 2013)

I have a slightly bigger HPS and MH but use CFL side lighting for my jalapenos and tomatoes and it works fantastic! Your grow is really good and I can't wait to see what you pull off! I love how ingenious people become to garden who would of never picked up a bag of dirt before.  lol Make it legal worldwide I say so everyone can reap the benefits!


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## simisimis (Jun 4, 2013)

Kite High said:


> nice...bend snap tie twist


bend till it snaps and then twist it with a tie? 



EasyPound said:


> I have a slightly bigger HPS and MH but use CFL side lighting for my jalapenos and tomatoes and it works fantastic! Your grow is really good and I can't wait to see what you pull off! I love how ingenious people become to garden who would of never picked up a bag of dirt before.  lol Make it legal worldwide I say so everyone can reap the benefits!


I totally agree with you. Everyone could reap the benefits. But IMO that's exactly why they do not legalize it. It's not because it's a very bad thing to smoke, it's because that it does not profit anyone cause everybody can grow it by themselves not like tobacco or alcohol... Even here in NL, you are allowed to grow up to 5 plants per household but without artificial light and ferts. Now try to do that indoors lol.. 

Anyway, it's so much fun, I would grow even if I wouldn't smoke..

Yesterday when I came home I saw destroyer alr wilted, somehow she drank a lot, anyway after watering, this morning she was back to normal. However I saw some rusty spots on bottom leaves.. I guess mag def.. In this small container and after 1 month i'd say i should have expected this. 
Also not sure if thats normal, but destroyer looks like she's already forming a cola.. Here's one closeup, not very clear, but you can see it's a bud site. I wonder if this can be true, cause the plant is still so small.. and zamal still does not have a single preflower.


EDIT: I went to Cannabiogen website and saw this in description of destroyer: _Flowering period is from 8 to 12 weeks depending of growing conditions._ So since it's 4 weeks into flower that makes sense then.. Zamal prob will take ~2-3 weeks longer


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## simisimis (Jun 6, 2013)

ah can't believe it... a week passed already and still no package...  I wonder if there is such thing as "container coating" and "hps lamp check" on customs... 
My plants stopped showing decent growth around this Sunday, my guess they got root bounded... now every day ticks in my head... 
And I do not know whether I should plant them in untreated containers or should wait.. cause if tomorrow it will not arrive, then the next day is monday.. so another 4 days of waiting.. or maybe I can increase nutes or something to keep them in those 1gal containers.. 
Anyone got any suggestion?


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## simisimis (Jun 6, 2013)

some update..

Leaves are still small, both plants have side branches with 4 nodes alr. Dest is shooting stigmas through every new growth. Zamal still did not show any signs of them. 
Dest showing some rusty spots on lower leaves. Two days ago watered with camg additive, looks like it's not progressing anymore. In total plants do not look that happy anymore.. I highly suspect those pots. Well will give another day, if coating will not arrive will transplant anyway. Here are some pics. 1-3 Zamal from different angles, 4-7 Dest with two forming colas.
Zamal


Dest


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## Kite High (Jun 6, 2013)

looks like they getting a bit too hot and maybe high rh?


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## simisimis (Jun 6, 2013)

Kite High said:


> looks like they getting a bit too hot and maybe high rh?


hmm, my rh rarely goes over 40% unless i hang some laundry then it bets to 43-46, but only for few hours. usually its 36.. but u might be right with the temp.. last few days temp raised outside, so that affected my room as well, at night is alright, ~65F, but at a daytime it gets to 85-89.. ill try to raise the lamps and put the ballast out of the room..
thanks Kite for your eagle eye, was worrying about transplanting that even did not consider any other factors lol


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## Kite High (Jun 7, 2013)

When the lose that perkiness it's usually high temps, high rh, or overwatering


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## simisimis (Jun 7, 2013)

good to know, raised my lamp, got the ballast out of the room. Now even if a fan is blowing at them, temps of ~89F are inside of the pot, at the top probably was way more.. Well hopefully they'll show some appreciation. Thank man 

I really doubt about rh. Overwatering is also not very likely the case, since the pots are very airy and quite light, I water them every two days. When I left a plant for 3 days after work I found Dest wilting, after watering next day it was cheerful again. But yes 4 days ago temps raised from 70-80 to 80-90, at the top prob even more.. Does not look like that fan blows all the heat away.. 

Well will see whether girls will react to lower temp. I'm pretty sure they will


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## MrEDuck (Jun 7, 2013)

If your rootzone gets too hot it's going to make the plants look overwatered no matter what because the solubility of O2 in water drops like a stone as temps rise.


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## simisimis (Jun 7, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> If your rootzone gets too hot it's going to make the plants look overwatered no matter what because the solubility of O2 in water drops like a stone as temps rise.


thanks man, good tip, at the bottom of the pot temps are around 74. at the top of the pot its 80, in another few inches it raises up to 85 I guess.. now I opened grow room doors and a roof window, will check maximum and minimum temp after I'll get back from work..


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## MrEDuck (Jun 7, 2013)

It's usually more of a problem in water cultures but it can happen in soil and soilless systems especially in smaller containers. It can be an issue for me because my veg tub because plants are in party cups and they warm up as the plants drink.


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## simisimis (Jun 9, 2013)

finally today weather cooled down a bit outside.. temps dropped to 79-80 during the light hours.. Still don't know how I am going to handle this. This morning I transplanted Zamaldelica into 5gal pot. in a pic you can see how all of the branches are reaching for the pot edges. Destroyer I left for one more day just in case they are going to deliver my package on Monday, if not, I will be transplanting her as well on Monday after work. Most of Dest shoots are covered in stigmas. Here are some pics of them. 
Zamal


Dest


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## simisimis (Jun 10, 2013)

sup beibz..

today I got so irritated by those hps stripes in photos so I went to google and searched for "iphone hps photo". Almighty google! as always, somebody did tht before.. In one forum the suggestion was - use 3d polarized glasses as a filter. And guess what - voila.. I just happened to have some 3d glasses around. Since in local movie theater you do not need to return glasses, I collected like 7 of them in case I'll buy some LG tv with passive 3d(prob not lol). Well what do you know, I just had to strech my arm backwards to reach for them. You can see the difference of pictures. Not perfect, but wayyyy better.. Especially when you have only phone which does not have adjustable shutter speed or cannot save pics in raw format.


here is some closer look of Dest and its bud sites.



As you can see all shoots have stigmas sticking out, so my question do you think it is still going to stretch like mad? I was thinking that because it's already made quite a lot of flowers, maybe stretching for this one is already over or close to being over so I would not need to LST it anymore? now LSTed Dest is like 6-7" height so even if it would increase in size 4 times I'd still would be able to keep her in that room.
With zamal it's a different story, since she still have no sign of preflowersso so will keep on my plant to keep her low.

Let me know what you guys think, thanks


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## MrEDuck (Jun 10, 2013)

I've seen sativas that will grow to 5' when flowered as 6" clones. Circling the pot after topping should keep it manageable though. If you could get like the first ring of a tomato cage and let them grow up and around that you could get a really tall plant in a small space.


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## simisimis (Jun 10, 2013)

yeah I hear you man, but, you are talking when a sativa strain becomes 5 foot when switched to flowering from clone. Destroyer is 4weeks and 2 days in 12/12 already and its still maintained in 7" height, its top leaflets looks like are starting to degrade from 7 blades to 5. Also plant is covered with bud sites.
So my point is, that it is not going to stretch like 5 feet because it is already maintained, prob it's so small because of small container, underwatering and heat stress it had lately and therefore was stunned... at least from what i've seen in my previous grows, that once colas start forming and leaf blades on it start to decrease in number, the stretching slows and colas continue on building slowly.. 

but then again, I've never grown pure sativa, so I have no idea what I'm dealing with.. I'm just wondering when the plant approximately will stop stretching and will only work on growing buds and what signs I should look for to predict that.


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## simisimis (Jun 10, 2013)

OMG finally. that poor little box arrived... well it used to be a box at least..


haha and here is something that will keep me in my garden tonight!


kk, no time for talking. laters!


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## EasyPound (Jun 10, 2013)

Have a good time, crack a brew or take a hit and put your new toys to use


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## g00sEgg (Jun 10, 2013)

Sub'd. Lookin' good, man! Keep it up. I'm a little behind you at 13 days into 12/12.


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## simisimis (Jun 10, 2013)

EasyPound said:


> Have a good time, crack a brew or take a hit and put your new toys to use


no tokietokies, had to do tht clearheaded as I had only 1 hour before lights went off..



g00sEgg said:


> Sub'd. Lookin' good, man! Keep it up. I'm a little behind you at 13 days into 12/12.


thanks man, glad to get positive feedback from veteran smokers ) 

ok so now update.

First of all.. OMG CMH is wayyyy over HPS, was worth waiting  Jesus such a beautiful color, the room got lit with 3000K but in a HPS way, instead of 2000K that I had before.

A bit disappointed with the timing, cause still placed Destroyer 1 our later after lights went off. Tried to work in darker place, but still Dest got a bit of extended daytime. Anyway, what's done is done, lets get back to business.

I made some cages so I could train them easier, can't believe that I did not think about it as a solution before.. Thanks MrEDuck for suggestion. While being in a hurry forgot to make a pic of transplanted Destroyer but there's always tomorrow. Hopefully... Cause the transplanting went quite aggressively, 3 gal pot was more difficult to cover with cage, cause dest alr outgrew it. Will show you tomorrow, but I'm positive about it. 

Was planting in a pot where previously SLH grew. WOW. After I shook all of the soil out of SLH roots, some of the roots were 36" long. omg one meter. This is where microkote should really help a lot with root branching instead of spinning.. Will be interesting to compare root balls after harvest. 

Here's a pic of Zamal in jail and Dest roots taken from one gallon pot.


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## simisimis (Jun 11, 2013)

Alright guys, here's another update. This morning was quite a pleasant surprise. Looks like Zamal decided to continue on growing. All the shoots became bright green, so I'm expecting quite some growth in the end of the day. Destroyer also did not look like it had too much of replanting stress. Again CMH light makes so much easier to take pictures. Due to those cages I had to raise the lamp at about 10-12". but once they'll get bigger I'll add side lighting. Finally I am satisfied with the equipment I got and can't wait to actually start growing sum weeee Here are pics. Zamal and her shoots, Dest and her bud sites and general view.


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## MrEDuck (Jun 11, 2013)

I would have tried to add them one ring at a time to keep the light closer. Watch to see if they stretch for it.


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## simisimis (Jun 12, 2013)

actually I measured the distance from tops to the light and it's only 7". not 12" as I thought. Also outside temperatures are rising so do not want to stress them again. BTW if i'd cut that fence in rings, I'm pretty sure it would collapse and lose its shape..
I'll keep an eye on the stretch, thanks


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## MrEDuck (Jun 12, 2013)

7" is about right for a 150W isn't it? I've never used one.


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## simisimis (Jun 12, 2013)

hm, when it was colder, i was keeping like 5-6" and a fan to blow the heat, now its a bit painful. i constantly have 27-29C degrees at the tops... 

zamal is showing some heat stress or N overfeeding. not sure cause tops are bright green, but leaves are cupping and foxtailing.. and since i caged her it got worse :/ 85F plants should take without too much stressing out i believe. also i replanted to new soil on sunday, which has some nutes in there, so this might have been overfert, but tops are bright green as in the pic, while with N toxicity i would expect dark green..


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## MrEDuck (Jun 12, 2013)

The new growth will always be a lighter green because it's still making chlorophyll. You shouldn't have heat stress under 30C at canopy.


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## Kite High (Jun 12, 2013)

simisimis said:


> hm, when it was colder, i was keeping like 5-6" and a fan to blow the heat, now its a bit painful. i constantly have 27-29C degrees at the tops...
> 
> zamal is showing some heat stress or N overfeeding. not sure cause tops are bright green, but leaves are cupping and foxtailing.. and since i caged her it got worse :/ 85F plants should take without too much stressing out i believe. also i replanted to new soil on sunday, which has some nutes in there, so this might have been overfert, but tops are bright green as in the pic, while with N toxicity i would expect dark green..


sats are touchy when it comes to N


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## simisimis (Jun 12, 2013)

been feeding her with 3ml of biogrow per liter, will try tomorrow when the light will go on give her only camg and seaweed and next watering will start with 1-2ml and proceed from there then. thanks Kite, did not know about them being picky on N.


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## simisimis (Jun 14, 2013)

Kite, i've seen u saying on other thread that you saw plants benefit more from hps into flowering than cmh, i have both, and thinking should i switch to hps when the stretching will be over and buds will start packing?


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## Kite High (Jun 14, 2013)

No I said I like hps with cmh best. I prefer cmh to hps alone.


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## simisimis (Jun 16, 2013)

Sunday afternoon. Day 35(5 weeks) into flowering.

2 days ago I watered Zamal with 1ml of grow. Looks like Zamal is not showing N excess signs and resumed her growth. That N thing is such a trickiness, the tops are showing N excess while to most bottom 2 fan leaves are showing lack of N. But I think it is related to those fan leaves being at the nodes of 4 main branches when they were topped. Hopefully next nodes will not be yellowing, so far they're looking healthy green. Also like 3-4 days ago it started showing preflowers.
Also signs of happiness might be related to temps that went down by 3-5 degrees or so. now it's like 73 in the morning and 80 in the evening. 63 at night. 

Dest, the ms. hairiness is also doing fine. Growing a bit, but more attention goes on building buds. Now I stopped pulling her down. since I still have like 1.5-2' of vertical space available. Will be able to train her later if she will start stretching.

Zamal: yellowing leave, topped stem, middle and side growth.


Destroyer: topped stem, budsites


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## Kite High (Jun 16, 2013)

Just keep assisting to what you see. Up it a bit and watch. They will tell you.


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## simisimis (Jun 16, 2013)

Kite High said:


> Just keep assisting to what you see. Up it a bit and watch. They will tell you.


will do that sir! 

at least will try to do that 
hopefully now that the training is mostly done they will get some more foliage and won't be stopping in growth due to the stress. all that lst and topping in flower was quite painful I'd say, also late replant, n excess and heat stress.. so difficult when ur not in full control of ur room. anyway if not the buds, will be harvesting knowledge haha


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## buddygrow420 (Jun 16, 2013)

Looking good! I am 19 days into my 400W Sativa Grow and was concerned my plants weren't going to be saliva's but they look almost identical to yours. So I am pretty stoked now!

I have a single 400W bulb. I germinated all 10 of my feminized seeds and only 2 didn't make it so I have 8 plants! I will probably be using 11 liter pots and can only visualize fitting 2 maybe 3 LST/FIM'd plants under the light. It's my first grow so if you got any comments I would appreciate them!

Cheers!


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## simisimis (Jun 16, 2013)

nice man, gratz on ur first grow, well my suggestion would be get in grow journals section, create a thread, post some starting info, photos and let me know the link so I could sub. As for suggestions I'd say I learned A LOT in my previous C99 and SLH grow(signature).
Kind of had to flush everything I read/heard before, made all the mistakes possible and struggled to the harvest. I read myself that thread 2 times already once in a month, and every time I find something I did not understand before.. 

About those 8 plants, I'm not sure I'm following you, you cannot visualize 3 LSTed plants fitting in your room, but you sprouted 8/10? Wouldn't it be smarter to sprout only 3 seeds?
for 11 liters I'd say use Kite High advice and get urself microkote container coating. Good stuff if you want to grow bigger stuff in smaller container 

my friend is growing 4 plants with 1 400W hps, the results are very nice. I think he's using 10liter autopots. 
hm, naked wife's calling me.. 
laters!


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## buddygrow420 (Jun 16, 2013)

simisimis said:


> nice man, gratz on ur first grow, well my suggestion would be get in grow journals section, create a thread, post some starting info, photos and let me know the link so I could sub. As for suggestions I'd say I learned A LOT in my previous C99 and SLH grow(signature).
> Kind of had to flush everything I read/heard before, made all the mistakes possible and struggled to the harvest. I read myself that thread 2 times already once in a month, and every time I find something I did not understand before..
> 
> About those 8 plants, I'm not sure I'm following you, you cannot visualize 3 LSTed plants fitting in your room, but you sprouted 8/10? Wouldn't it be smarter to sprout only 3 seeds?
> ...


I added my journal to my sig. I germinated all my seeds thinking maybe 70% would sprout and I might lose one along the way and maybe have a male or two. 9/10 sprouted and 1 3 cotyledon plant died after a few days! I will check out your C'99 & SLH thread.


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## simisimis (Jun 16, 2013)

cool, subbed, will read it later.
haha so far i germed everything i popped into soil, i only killed one seedling later when tried to follow "increase the temp" advise haha, temps got higher than i expected..


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## simisimis (Jun 17, 2013)

last week i ordered potsil.com potassium silicon, same ratio as protekt, but instead of 11% its like 33% of that thing... but i've read that is has ~11ph and i am already watering with 7.5-8ph water, Kite do you think that soil will still be able to buffer this? or do i need start thinking of ph down? prob i would also need normal ph tester, cause those liquid drops and color scale is a bit... u know..


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## simisimis (Jun 17, 2013)

hehe moderator just closed "things nooobs say that just make you lmfao" cause it's not cool to make fun out of newbies.. Oh well, maybe he's right, was a funny thread, it's just that he is making fun out of them himself in his signature lol..

k, work's done! can't wait to check on my ladies


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## Kite High (Jun 17, 2013)

Yeah well it seemed someone must of gotten sand n their vagina

add the silica product to your water first then add your base fertilizers. Check pH if u want to. In soiless I never check it but that's me but ALWAYS add silica before anything you are mixing with it.


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## applepoop1984 (Jun 17, 2013)

Kite High said:


> Yeah well it seemed someone must of gotten sand n their vagina
> 
> add the silica product to your water first then add your base fertilizers. Check pH if u want to. In soiless I never check it but that's me but ALWAYS add silica before anything you are mixing with it.


have you heard about foliar feeding with silica based nutrients? there was a study on icmag it had great results:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=223440


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## b.real (Jun 17, 2013)

hey man, i also do 12/12 from seed under a 150 watt hid, and it takes me about 3 weeks to get sex. ive vegged for one week in hopes of getting pistils in 2 weeks total, but it still takes 3 weeks to find sex. males usually show a couple days sooner than females. 

i also top once, right before the stretch (3 week mark) but i never thought about lsting the four main colas. im going to try this with my grows!

as soon as you saw the nitrogen claw on page 2, you should have eased up with the feeding. that is nutrient lockout due to salt buildup. i would flush with the size of the container, let her drip/drain, and then soak the soil with a 1/4 feeding solution.


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## simisimis (Jun 17, 2013)

Kite High said:


> Yeah well it seemed someone must of gotten sand n their vagina
> 
> add the silica product to your water first then add your base fertilizers. Check pH if u want to. In soiless I never check it but that's me but ALWAYS add silica before anything you are mixing with it.


yeah, prob I was spending too much time on a beach ) 
k bro i feel ya, i just though simce i'm not using ro water, and its ~8 and some ph+ from silicate, thought that might be too much, better ask than later be sorry  anyway, kites in a land where i was born are considered to bring luck, and so far ur tips did it hehe
thanks man!


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## simisimis (Jun 17, 2013)

applepoop1984 said:


> have you heard about foliar feeding with silica based nutrients? there was a study on icmag it had great results:
> 
> https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=223440


hm its 3am, after 8 hours finally just finished baking bread and reading 700pages book, im like drop dead tired but from a quick look not too much info or pics in there, there was one more link in there, but will check it tomorrow, anyway got lots of time since plants will still be 7-9weeks in flower. i just had way better results when not stressing the plants with spraying, leave edges were wrinkling, but maybe it was a because of heavy spraying till the drops start leaking on soil from leaves, maybe lightly misting that would do better. but really doubt cause fan blows away all the water withing few minutes.. 
thanks man for the input, will check that out!


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## simisimis (Jun 17, 2013)

b.real said:


> hey man, i also do 12/12 from seed under a 150 watt hid, and it takes me about 3 weeks to get sex. ive vegged for one week in hopes of getting pistils in 2 weeks total, but it still takes 3 weeks to find sex. males usually show a couple days sooner than females.
> 
> i also top once, right before the stretch (3 week mark) but i never thought about lsting the four main colas. im going to try this with my grows!
> 
> as soon as you saw the nitrogen claw on page 2, you should have eased up with the feeding. that is nutrient lockout due to salt buildup. i would flush with the size of the container, let her drip/drain, and then soak the soil with a 1/4 feeding solution.


yeah thanks man but no thanks, it's a fresh 5 weeks old soil, salt builup??? you're reading from some bad sources. i watered 3 days ago with 1ml of organic grow food instead of 3ml and plant in the evening was getting better, next day it kick off, today she's still happy. man pls flushing topic hurts my eyes already... tired of debating
you're prob growing some indica strains, i went for pure sativas 12-14 week flowering strains, zamal only few days ago started showing pistils
cheers man, thanks for sharing ill check out ur threads tmr


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## Kite High (Jun 18, 2013)

hey bro pre harvest flushing is bs but leaching the medium is a valuable tool and doesn't hurt a thing....as a matter of fact it produces a heluva growth spurt...try it and see ...it will


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## simisimis (Jun 18, 2013)

applepoop1984 said:


> have you heard about foliar feeding with silica based nutrients? there was a study on icmag it had great results:
> 
> https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=223440


yeah like old saying "morning is smarter than evening" dunno if that makes any sense, just a word by word translation from my language hehe. 

Found in that thread another link with more detail growing. For me those sprayed leaves looks a bit more like they were made from plastic lol. Can't wait to see if there'll be any difference. But i'm pretty confident about it. Sativas could really benefit from fatter stems


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## simisimis (Jun 18, 2013)

Kite High said:


> hey bro pre harvest flushing is bs but leaching the medium is a valuable tool and doesn't hurt a thing....as a matter of fact it produces a heluva growth spurt...try it and see ...it will


Kite can you give me more info about leaching the medium? I'm not sure I'm following, at what time it is being done? Like before growing or during? How can it be causing a spurt? Is it not short-term stress spurt? Or are you just messing with me lol?

I thought leaching is a synonym of flushing..


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## applepoop1984 (Jun 18, 2013)

simisimis said:


> yeah like old saying "morning is smarter than evening" dunno if that makes any sense, just a word by word translation from my language hehe.
> 
> Found in that thread another link with more detail growing. For me those sprayed leaves looks a bit more like they were made from plastic lol. Can't wait to see if there'll be any difference. But i'm pretty confident about it. Sativas could really benefit from fatter stems


yes in the morning means the lights have beenoff for 12 hours so it might not be morning but the logic is the same. flower and root growth are more prevalent during night and thc degrades with exposure to light. it also allows the plant to use up stored starches so curing will be easier


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## applepoop1984 (Jun 18, 2013)

simisimis said:


> Kite can you give me more info about leaching the medium? I'm not sure I'm following, at what time it is being done? Like before growing or during? How can it be causing a spurt? Is it not short-term stress spurt? Or are you just messing with me lol?
> 
> I thought leaching is a synonym of flushing..


i have experienced the growth spurt after a leach. i chalked it up to me using a 40 lpm (commercial grade) air pump with a 6 inch bubble disc in my water before hand but im wondering what would cause it with someone who doesnt use such a high amount of oxygenation in their water. 

i have some recommendations based on research iv been doing on cadmium remediation from soil. these are all based on real life studies, the most surprising thing i found was they were able to remove 52% of cadmium from clay soil(which has a negative charge and is notorious for its ability to hold heavy metals) from flushing with plain water. another study demonstrated that cadmium can be oxidated by hydrogen peroxide over the course of 50 or so minutes from between 30->70%. supposedly it turns it into a bunch of different compounds im not exactly sure what they are something ferrous... nickle oxide. dont quote me on the names. another study found that waste water and sludge could be treated with coco or perlite to get a removal rate of 99% and 55% respectively. acetic acid was used as well as citric acid as a means of removing cadmium and other metals. acetic acid was 8% cadmium removal and citric acid was around 30% if i remember. its important to note that these methods all work in different ways. water flush removes it by leaching, h2o2 removes it by oxidating making it unavailable in the plants, cadmium is adsorbed by coco and perlite and citric acid and acetic acid leach it away.there is also evidence of introducing worms to your soil to digest cadmium and other heavy metals with the benfit of worm castings. soil microbes specifically certain aerobic or faculative anaerobes also help by digesting the metals. this is by no means a perfect recommendation i am going to have to convert mols and what not to actual amounts of h2o2, perlite, coco, acetic acid etc...



flush your soil before planting with water to remove cadmium. you should be running 5 gallons minimum per planter


use of 1 cup of h2o2 per 5 gallons during the flush will help oxidize cadmium and help neutralize it even further


to remove cadmium from fertilizers take pantyhose and fill a leg with perlite and or coco and or clay and tie it and leave it in your nutrient bucket with an airstone to brew with the fertilizer for a couple days. the cadmium will stick to the perlite/coco/clay and you simply have to rinse it out after and let it soak in a bucket filled with 1 cup h2o2and the rest water
every month do a flush of your soil with at least 3 gallons. use h2o2 in the flush and aerate the water for at least 10 minutes before flushing.

after flushing use 1 tbsp molasses with enough water to fill your planter and water with that as soon as possible. aerate this as well 


2 weeks before harvest dont fertilize and do a flush with h2o2 of 1 cup per 5 gallons. 


this can greatly reduce the uptake of cadmium and other heavy metals into the bud and will greatly improve the taste.

it is important to do the flush 2 weeks before harvest so that you can remove any cadmium and other heavy metals from the soil so the plant will be less likely to have it. not using nutrients the last 2 weeks will help with removal as well but it wont hurt too much if you leached the soil before the grow began, added the coco/perlite/ clay stockings to your nutrient teas etc. 

its also important to note that both inorganic as well as organic ferts contain heavy metals and each batch of fertilizer will vary on the amount.


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## simisimis (Jun 18, 2013)

applepoop1984 said:


> i have experienced the growth spurt after a leach. i chalked it up to me using a 40 lpm (commercial grade) air pump with a 6 inch bubble disc in my water before hand but im wondering what would cause it with someone who doesnt use such a high amount of oxygenation in their water.
> 
> i have some recommendations based on research iv been doing on cadmium remediation from soil. these are all based on real life studies, the most surprising thing i found was they were able to remove 52% of cadmium from clay soil(which has a negative charge and is notorious for its ability to hold heavy metals) from flushing with plain water. another study demonstrated that cadmium can be oxidated by hydrogen peroxide over the course of 50 or so minutes from between 30->70%. supposedly it turns it into a bunch of different compounds im not exactly sure what they are something ferrous... nickle oxide. dont quote me on the names. another study found that waste water and sludge could be treated with coco or perlite to get a removal rate of 99% and 55% respectively. acetic acid was used as well as citric acid as a means of removing cadmium and other metals. acetic acid was 8% cadmium removal and citric acid was around 30% if i remember. its important to note that these methods all work in different ways. water flush removes it by leaching, h2o2 removes it by oxidating making it unavailable in the plants, cadmium is adsorbed by coco and perlite and citric acid and acetic acid leach it away.there is also evidence of introducing worms to your soil to digest cadmium and other heavy metals with the benfit of worm castings. soil microbes specifically certain aerobic or faculative anaerobes also help by digesting the metals. this is by no means a perfect recommendation i am going to have to convert mols and what not to actual amounts of h2o2, perlite, coco, acetic acid etc...
> 
> ...


yeah, I've seen your advise in a 22 pages thread which I've been following from the very beginning. Do me a favour and press ctrl + f on your browser and type Cadmium and press highlight all and see how many times you mentioned this metal... Dude you're totally obsessed with those heavy metals..

I do not believe that in such a short time you can buildup a threatening amount of them in the soil which your body could not handle. Also I noticed that every time I mess around with the plants, it stresses them and it takes time for them to start growing again, sometimes an hour, sometimes a week, but when I leave them untouched and just watch them growing they start going crazy and look happy. I'm not that green guy who would like to live long and healthy life without heavy metals in my body etc. With all the radiation, unhealthy lifestyle, polluted environment and million other factors... this will not make my life noticeably better so I would spend so many hours stressing out on this particular subject. 
I tried flushing, it disappointed me a lot. Caused turmoil in the soil-root relationship and plant made it's revenge on me. I do not see the point in it. I smoke once a week and my buds are smelling and tasting like freshly baked grandmas apple pie. And all of the credit goes to boveda 62% humidipaks.. fed all the way till the harvest.

I am not sure I am ready to go into all those endless hours of studies and researches that have already been done, I have a lot of things in my life to be running around, so I just chose to parrot people who has lots of experience and outstanding results. I still do a lot of reading daily taking into consideration all of the opinions, but somehow I always lean back on people whose results make my eyes swell.. I do not have airpumps, (de)humidifiers, air conditioners and I am not able to get them. Maybe when I will build my own house, I will make the room specially designed just for that, I will also get my hands on vegetables and fruit growing, then I will be investing way more money/time/researches, but for now I enjoy my 3'x2'x3' grow room with 2 plants in it which makes me smile every morning.
Thanks for your input, but h2o2/flushing and in all other ways disrupting micro system in my soil is just not for me. Also in a way you say it I get to imagine that flushing is like garbage truck which comes over to pick up heavy metals trash every month and plant packs it in bags and happily trashes.. I do not believe that those metals are removed from plant and moreover after you flush you feed a plant with nutes again.. Again they are uptaken.. So for me it seems that the only thing you achieve with it is keep your soil "heavy metal"less in expense of f*cking it and the plant stays the same just stressed out, ill and unhappy...


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## Kite High (Jun 18, 2013)

Flushing during the grow to leach salts and push growth is a grand thing. This is what is occurring. The plants think they received a heavy rain so they ramp up transpiration to pump out the water and get O2 to the roots. The raising of transpiration raises the growth rate. Simply pour three times container capacity through them of water immediately followed by adequate feed water of enough volume to fill the container. It is a great and useful tool that is like rebooting your computer but its plants bro.


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## Kite High (Jun 18, 2013)

I love heavy metal btw. Lol. But I do not concern myself with it in growing as the seafood I consume is much more laden with a smorgasbord of heavy metals than any ferts I use.


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## applepoop1984 (Jun 18, 2013)

simisimis said:


> yeah, I've seen your advise in a 22 pages thread which I've been following from the very beginning. Do me a favour and press ctrl + f on your browser and type Cadmium and press highlight all and see how many times you mentioned this metal... Dude you're totally obsessed with those heavy metals..
> 
> I do not believe that in such a short time you can buildup a threatening amount of them in the soil which your body could not handle. Also I noticed that every time I mess around with the plants, it stresses them and it takes time for them to start growing again, sometimes an hour, sometimes a week, but when I leave them untouched and just watch them growing they start going crazy and look happy. I'm not that green guy who would like to live long and healthy life without heavy metals in my body etc. With all the radiation, unhealthy lifestyle, polluted environment and million other factors... this will not make my life noticeably better so I would spend so many hours stressing out on this particular subject.
> I tried flushing, it disappointed me a lot. Caused turmoil in the soil-root relationship and plant made it's revenge on me. I do not see the point in it. I smoke once a week and my buds are smelling and tasting like freshly baked grandmas apple pie. And all of the credit goes to boveda 62% humidipaks.. fed all the way till the harvest.
> ...


well there have been studies proving cadmium and other heavy metals are present in marijuana smoke. there are even studies using cannabis for phyto remediation of soil because it uptakes heavy metals at such a high rate. the studies are there proving water, perlite, coco, and h2o2 will remove these metals. if you want to see the studies let me know. and an airpump is going to help you out alot and you can get one at walmart in the pet section with the aquarium warez.


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## applepoop1984 (Jun 18, 2013)

Kite High said:


> I love heavy metal btw. Lol. But I do not concern myself with it in growing as the seafood I consume is much more laden with a smorgasbord of heavy metals than any ferts I use.


yeah i tend to stay away from shark meat lol. and by flushing you are definitely removing up to 52% of it.


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## simisimis (Jun 18, 2013)

Kite High said:


> Flushing during the grow to leach salts and push growth is a grand thing. This is what is occurring. The plants think they received a heavy rain so they ramp up transpiration to pump out the water and get O2 to the roots. The raising of transpiration raises the growth rate. Simply pour three times container capacity through them of water immediately followed by adequate feed water of enough volume to fill the container. It is a great and useful tool that is like rebooting your computer but its plants bro.


omg I even don't know where to start.. My head is so messed up, thinking are you serious or are you being sarcastic? It's just that all those numerous times you were saying that flushing is for toilets and now this.. If you do not mind I'll put some thoughts that blows my mind at the moment and I would greatly appreciate if you comment on them.

1. my plants are still quite small(10"). First 4 weeks I was watering with 0.5L in 1gallon medium every 2-3 days, the when I upcanned a week ago I water with 2l in 5gallon pot once in 5 days. 
Do you think I can have salt build up after 5 weeks from seed? 
What do you think should be leaching schedule? Once per 4 weeks? once per 8 weeks? Roughly, so I could get a feel of it.

2. Does that method apply both in veg and flower? If yes just don't answer 

3. again pH.. since I am using tap water and I'm not able to store like 16 gallons of water to sit for few days to evaporate, if I'll leach with 8.5-8.7pH water will the soil still be able to buffer this? If yes just don't answer to this. Sorry for repeating that again and again..

4. When last time I was running a water through my 3 gallon pot, can it be the case why the soil became tough and lost all the fluffy property because I made too small holes in my 3gallon bucket. Can you comment on the speed I should apply the water cause I have the feeling that because I was pouring more than it was leaching pushed out all the oxygen from soil and that's why I had so many problems after doing so.. Should I also apply h2o2 as recommended by applepoop on the previous post? 

5. Because I upcanned a plant only a week ago there's probably still lots of space which is not occupied by roots. Because plant will not be able to transport all the water from medium, but only where the roots are, could that cause any problems like fungi or root rot?

please answer only those parts if they are worth attention, the rest just ignore. Just before stepping into something new I want to be absolutely sure what I'm doing so I would not do something like topping the main cola 20 days into flowering on my first grow lol...

again, thanks for staying with me bro..

p.s. today I got surprised, Destroyers colas during night time grew more than during day hours.. But that is only last night and yesterday comparison..


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## brotherjericho (Jun 18, 2013)

Kite High said:


> Flushing during the grow to leach salts and push growth is a grand thing. This is what is occurring. The plants think they received a heavy rain so they ramp up transpiration to pump out the water and get O2 to the roots. The raising of transpiration raises the growth rate. Simply pour three times container capacity through them of water immediately followed by adequate feed water of enough volume to fill the container. It is a great and useful tool that is like rebooting your computer but its plants bro.


And 



Kite High said:


> hey bro pre harvest flushing is bs but leaching the medium is a valuable tool and doesn't hurt a thing....as a matter of fact it produces a heluva growth spurt...try it and see ...it will


 That is what Kite High is talking about simisimis. A preharvest flush would theoretically leave nothing in the soil for the plant to feed from, while flushing and then adding back in nutes will.


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## simisimis (Jun 18, 2013)

applepoop1984 said:


> yeah i tend to stay away from shark meat lol. and by flushing you are definitely removing up to 52% of it.


man, but you are leaching the soil and right after you feed them with nutes, i do not get it, you remove it from soil, not from the plant, and then you add some more right away.. so plant is just uptaking it.. ull be smoking plant in the end, not the soil.. i don't get something here :/


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## simisimis (Jun 18, 2013)

cadmium sprinkles on bread and butter... mmm...


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## simisimis (Jun 18, 2013)

brotherjericho said:


> And
> 
> 
> 
> That is what Kite High is talking about simisimis. A preharvest flush would theoretically leave nothing in the soil for the plant to feed from, while flushing and then adding back in nutes will.


omg, amazing... thanks Kite and everybody, today i learned a lot  
another rock in my fortress wall of knowledge..


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## Kite High (Jun 18, 2013)

applepoop1984 said:


> yeah i tend to stay away from shark meat lol. and by flushing you are definitely removing up to 52% of it.


Naw I'll just make batteries outta my plants


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## simisimis (Jun 18, 2013)

haha im still sparkling with this leaching thing. guys could you comment on those points?

when i should do it and how often. probably 1 week after repotting it would not be wise to do? im afraid cause my nutes does not seem to have trace elements(at least biobizz does not say anywhere) except for liquid seeweed, soil however does. if ill leach and my biogrow will not provide necesaary elements, i might be having problems? What do you think should be leaching schedule? Once per 4 weeks? once per 8 weeks? Roughly, so I could get a feel of it. applepoop you said once a month, but im heading for growth boosting, not cadmium washing  


pH.since I am using tap water and I'm not able to store like 16 gallons of water to sit for few days to evaporate, if I'll leach with 8.5-8.7pH water will the soil still be able to buffer this? If yes just don't answer to this..

When last time I was running a water through my 3 gallon pot, can it be the case why the soil became tough and lost all the fluffy property because I made too small holes in my 3gallon bucket. Can you comment on the speed I should apply the water cause I have the feeling that because I was pouring more than it was leaching pushed out all the oxygen from soil and that's why I had so many problems after doing so.. Should I also apply h2o2 as recommended by applepoop on the previous post? 


Because I upcanned a plant only a week ago there's probably still lots of space which is not occupied by roots. Because plant will not be able to transport all the water from medium, but only where the roots are, could that cause any problems like fungi or root rot?

can i do this without airpump? like splashing water with a baseball bat for half an hour?

i just want to make sure im able do to such thing and find out when i can do it,
thanks guys


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## b.real (Jun 18, 2013)

Kite High said:


> hey bro pre harvest flushing is bs but leaching the medium is a valuable tool and doesn't hurt a thing....as a matter of fact it produces a heluva growth spurt...try it and see ...it will


His plant has nutrient stress for sure. Ive noticed that sativa heavy plants are more sensitive to food (esp nitrogen) than indica.

I run full organics (no not fox farms fake organics) and i still flush a week before harvest. nitorgen is known to make harsh smoke, so you want to make sure there is no nitrogen left in the soil, and that the plant is pulling the green from its leaves heavy before you chop it down.

i flush by using tap water, and then filtered water. the mild ec of tap water helps to pull the salts from the medium, and then the filtered water gets consumed by the plant.

you can tell your plant has nutrient stress by the nitrogen claw, the overly dark shade of green. dont get me wrong, you have a very mild case of it, but if you keep feeding the way you are you will cause the plants roots to shut down.

some people have to learn the hard way, but thats fine becuase i was one of those people. i dont have enough lives left to learn the hard way anymore.

nitrogen stress: https://www.google.com/search?q=nitrogen+claw&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.47883778,d.dmg&biw=1366&bih=644&wrapid=tlif137156607257310&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=_W_AUejzDuqg4APksoGoBQ

look at nitrogen abundance and toxicity: http://www.brotherhoodoffreedom.com/insects_disease/


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## simisimis (Jun 18, 2013)

man, I appreciate your comment, but as I said already, I know that I had N excess, and I also said that when I reduced grow food from 3ml to 1ml, the plant turned from this to this:


in less than one day, and in the next day it even got better. Destroyer is not showing N toxicity at all only zamal. I had already N toxicity on my previous grows, I can identify that, it's just that I did not take into consideration that I upcanned into nuted soil and therefore it started showing N overfert. On past two days Zamaldelica was growing like way faster, and side branches became way bigger. And all of the tops are bright green. I'm pretty sure that if I'd water again with 1ml of grow everything will get back to normal. I'll post some pics within few hours. I do not believe that there's a need to flush for this, cause it has been handled.. I wrote that on previous posts already. I'm more concerned that today temps outside jumped from 20C to 28. Kind of scared to get home and see how that affected my grow room :/


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## b.real (Jun 18, 2013)

she does look much better, good work. you using biobizz nutes?

i usually start with an empty or a very mild soil like gardeners gold. i run 90f at my canopy with mild issues.


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## simisimis (Jun 18, 2013)

hmm its very strange, just got home and again plant is suffering from n toxicity... 3rd time already, temps are raising to 85~90f and the leaves become dark green foxtail and cup. do not gave pump, or h2o2, will try to leach it, i guess soil is releasing those nutes... argh annoying. kk, running to flush it


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## b.real (Jun 18, 2013)

easy now, if the plants not drinking you can harm the roots with flushing. if its drinking, shell be ok. just leave her 2-3 days without water after flushing.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Jun 18, 2013)

DAMN! simissimis you guys are way over thinking this. yes sativas are sensitive to nutes, so just go easy on the plant food. maybe give it just water for a bit. your plants look fine and as for flushing you can do it once a week, once a month, never. or you could water like this every 3days or how ever long it takes : food- just water- food- just water etc...also you just transplanted the plants so yeah theres going to be some stress and they are going to grow slow. just give her a week or so and she'll be back to normal.now you keep talking about the PH of your water 8.5-8.7 please tell me that your PHing your water down between 5.5 and 6.5? if you not you better start or you'll your plants will fail.


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## b.real (Jun 18, 2013)

MEANGREEN69 said:


> DAMN! simissimis you guys are way over thinking this. yes sativas are sensitive to nutes, so just go easy on the plant food. maybe give it just water for a bit. your plants look fine and as for flushing you can do it once a week, once a month, never. or you could water like this every 3days or how ever long it takes : food- just water- food- just water etc...also you just transplanted the plants so yeah theres going to be some stress and they are going to grow slow. just give her a week or so and she'll be back to normal.now you keep talking about the PH of your water 8.5-8.7 please tell me that your PHing your water down between 5.5 and 6.5? if you not you better start or you'll your plants will fail.



"flushing you can do it once a week, once a month, never"

you should flush if you have a mild toxicity, like he did. now chill and let her dry up, she drinks water when its drying like a sponge seeping water. i wouldnt flush a second time. some people need to never flush. i never had to flush my master kush or 3 acid plants because they were in empty soil that i premixed myself. it depends on the situation. 

nutes have buffers in that which maintains ph, IF you dont overdo it and bring it to a super acidic level, or with terrible tap with a high ec and off ph. ph should be close to 7 or 8 for good tap 

only girls i had problems with were two in my signature cause slow release micronutes burned them with cal and mag


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## simisimis (Jun 19, 2013)

MEANGREEN69 said:


> DAMN! simissimis you guys are way over thinking this. yes sativas are sensitive to nutes, so just go easy on the plant food. maybe give it just water for a bit. your plants look fine and as for flushing you can do it once a week, once a month, never. or you could water like this every 3days or how ever long it takes : food- just water- food- just water etc...also you just transplanted the plants so yeah theres going to be some stress and they are going to grow slow. just give her a week or so and she'll be back to normal.now you keep talking about the PH of your water 8.5-8.7 please tell me that your PHing your water down between 5.5 and 6.5? if you not you better start or you'll your plants will fail.


Yeah I know man that this had a bit too much of my attention, I just got overexcited understanding something new in growing and wanted to apply that so I could see for myself. Also, I wanted to do it right somewhere in the future, but when I came back home temps were 87-89F bright green growth seen in the morning turned into dark green and the leaves again got cupped and foxtailed. So I thought that this is a good time for trying my new understanding out. 

Actually I transplanted 9 days ago, I'm not sure if plant showed any transplanting stress at all, it was reacting more to LSTing. When I watered with only 1ml of biogrow, it went back to bright green and new growth. So yeah, reducing nutes helped. The thing is that my soil has quite a lot nutes in it as well, that's why I was getting all that overnuting thing. I like the soil, its airy and has very good water holding properties. Probably it will not say for you a lot, cause it's a dutch brand but it's called Gold label special mix. As on the instructions stated it can support plant for about 6 weeks and it's not recommended to use with seedlings or cause nutes can burn them. 

And the reason I chose not to adjust the pH cause I have a strong feeling that Kite High stating that "soil/soilless buffering properties fixes pH by itself and I do not need to worry about" is right and I want to face it for myself so I could base my knowledge on personal experience  So far watering with ~8.5-8.7 water did not give me any difference, I just sometimes break when i'm introduced to new things as flushing of 60L with ~8.7 pH and thinking that soil could not handle this. 

In the end i did flushed and will write more about this and how it affected my plant in few minutes.


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## simisimis (Jun 19, 2013)

ok so here it is.

After comming back and seeing how normal turned into overfert again I decided to go for it. flush... nah, I prefer leach, that word sounds way better ) So This is what I did. I attached hose to my tap, it happens that I have it for raising pressure of boiler system in my apartment, so I was very happy I had it. So I was able with the hose to make thin high pressure stream into 2l bottle aerating it with bubbles. 3x times water of soil quantity. Ok. Since my container is 22L, I went with like 58L of water. And was watering with 2L bottle, so I had to high pressure water stream 29 bottles. My wife facepalmed herself when she went into the room I was working lol. Carpet was wet in 1 meter radius around my working place lol I even managed to splash the ceiling. yup that hose was surely going wild.. 
Medium was placed on a washing bowl and everytime it was filled, I was dumping the water to the sink. Don't know if water had to turn colorless or not, but from dark yellow the leached water in the end turned yellow. One thing for sure, after leaching those yellow perlite granules turned back to white again. At least top ones.

The soil pushed down quite a bit. A bit less then an inch. but it was only a week when plant was upcanned, so no wonder that in went down that much. 
After all the leaching, I made some 3-4ml/L of grow food. 2 liters of it. and poured onto the medium. since soil was wet enough already, water just went through. 

Hoping for the best I placed the plant under the hid, 15min before the light went off and left it to rest after wetful day )

This morning I checked on plants and I was pleasantly surprised. The bright green returned, but this time with quite some growth lol. here are the pics. 
1st zamal yesterday, the rest are todays photos


Destroyer. Looks like her height was handled. It's still getting bigger, and her side branches as well, but streching is not the thing she's worrying about. Now she's like 12" tall. I still have 1' and a bit left for her.


This is a second day when it's quite humid (50%) and hot, 82F outside. Hopefully temps inside will not go over 90. Anyway it's very humid outside, feels like it will be raining with thunderstorms some time soon, so I'm positive.


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## MrEDuck (Jun 19, 2013)

Flushing protip: do it in the bathtub.


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## simisimis (Jun 19, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> Flushing protip: do it in the bathtub.


ahaha can't believe i did not think about it.. anyway it's a bit difficult for me to get down to the bathroom from the attic due to very small entrance and steep stairs, would be shaking her a lot, and since i have sink upstairs it's a bit easier to stay there.. anyway, good advice, thanks bro!


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## b.real (Jun 19, 2013)

Still a little over fertilized, but looking amazing! They are going to be just fine. Use straight water for a bit until she starts bleeding some green away, then continue your feeding program. 

Transplanting to new soil usually provides food for 3-4 weeks.

You must buffer ph in hydro and coco. Soil not so much. I dont see a ph issue here, you plant is drinking and eating.


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## simisimis (Jun 19, 2013)

b.real said:


> Still a little over fertilized, but looking amazing! They are going to be just fine. Use straight water for a bit.until.she.starts.bleeding.some green away, then.continue your feeding program.
> 
> Transplanting to new soil usually provides food for 3-4 weeks.
> 
> You must buffer ph in hydro and coco. Soil not so much. I dont see a ph issue here, you plant is drinking and eating.


Will slow down, thanks, probably I was overestimating the amount of nutrients those bottles and soil could contain lol... Also pictures were taken 15 min before lights off and 5 min after light went on again. I wonder what I will find after I'll get back home in few hours


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## simisimis (Jun 19, 2013)

Hey guys, I made some pictures of the content listing from the back of the gold label special mix bag. Can you comment anything about the soil, structure and nutes in it? hm I do not get it, I came back home and again it's leaves are getting darker, prob will have to give plain water only for few waterings, but I'm wondering, maybe that soil is slowly releasing those nutes. thanks for your input!
do not give too much attention to the picture quality, for the sake of simplicity I cut out other languages and left only the actual info.
Peace


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## b.real (Jun 19, 2013)

looks like good soil, but it doesnt tell anything about what nutes are water soluble and which are not.


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## simisimis (Jun 19, 2013)

yeah, that's what I thought as well, was just afraid that maybe I'm lacking of knowledge to read this info.. well hopefully that N toxicity will stop. Zamal is doing some growing, cant complain. So I'll just water with a bit of camg next grow and will see how plant reacts..
thanks man!


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## b.real (Jun 19, 2013)

no problem. if it helps at all, most potting soils ive tried feed the plant without any supplemental feedings for ~4 weeks.

now i start with an empty soil (peat moss, compost and sometimes perlite), then i mix my own super soil.

to feed (after my super soil runs out) i use fish emulsion. im switching to biobizz bloom because the fish emulsion is too stinky for my indoor growing.

if you just transplanted into this soil, you dont have to feed anything for a couple weeks. if you feel like feeding even though you dont have to, just do a drop or two on the feed day.

water, water, feed (couple drops or 1/4 strength)


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## simisimis (Jun 19, 2013)

fish emulsion u mean biobizz fish mix or any other? i see that it has 6-2-4 npk, not bad.. but i want now to finish biogrow and go for dynagro and something like gold label special mix, same mix just without ferts..
k will go easy on nutes.. still need to get a feeling how much are they capable to feed  
thanks again man!


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## b.real (Jun 19, 2013)

im using espomas grotone which is a 2-2-2 fish emulsion feed. fish emulsion has all the macro and micronutes necessary for any stage of growth. you really cant get better than fish protein, but its so expensive. the farmers around here use manure to start their land, and then fish emulsion to feed their crop (if theyre rich). if theyre not rich, they just drop more manure. 

"Since fish emulsion is naturally derived, it is considered an organic fertilizer appropriate for use in organic horticulture. In addition to having a typical N-P-K analysis of 5-2-2, fish emulsion adds micronutrients.[SUP][1][/SUP]"

i had biobizz send me all the products labels and i think im going to get just the biobloom. its a 1-2-2 feed made from beet vinasse (molasses) and sea kelp. all their products (besides the fish mix and the bioheaven) are made from this stuff, so i cant see buying more than one.

i just wanted to help you out so you didnt get a lockout during the first swell (which was about to happen). grow on!


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## simisimis (Jun 19, 2013)

b.real said:


> im using espomas grotone which is a 2-2-2 fish emulsion feed. fish emulsion has all the macro and micronutes necessary for any stage of growth. you really cant get better than fish protein, but its so expensive. the farmers around here use manure to start their land, and then fish emulsion to feed their crop (if theyre rich). if theyre not rich, they just drop more manure.
> 
> "Since fish emulsion is naturally derived, it is considered an organic fertilizer appropriate for use in organic horticulture. In addition to having a typical N-P-K analysis of 5-2-2, fish emulsion adds micronutrients.[SUP][1][/SUP]"
> 
> ...


yeah, from what I was feeding them, and now, that I see what I had to feed them is a big difference lol.. got used to those quantities from my previous grow when soil did not have additional nutes in it.

I sorta like biogrow, but when I see manufacturer putting on their page only icons and advertising sentences instead of normal msds info, it's a bit.. you start doubting them.. Also e.g. in growshoalien they have biobizz fishmix with 6-2-4 npk photo of the bottle, and official biobizz webpage shows npk is 5-3-4. I have biobloom in my closet as well, just don't use it as it's too high in P. Now I remembered one more thing. Aptus camg-boost has N-Ca-Mg 9-9-2. How could I forget that lol. So N from biogrow, N from soil and N from camg booster.. No wonder.. 

if not $28 for delivery from UK, I'd buy dynagro trio-pack(foliagepro, magpro and protekt) 3x8oz bottles for $30, for now will just stick to what I have. I'ts nearly a year since I started growing and still used only like 1/5th of biogrow lol... 

Actually I think I'm overreacting at things. I have enough nutes to support plant growth which are doing quite fine.. I should just stick with them without thinking that having all of them will cover my errors haha.. I finally get it that "less is more" conception.. 

water water water till I see what they ask me for. If i'm eating 3 times per day, does not mean the plant has to do it too )) Just going to keep feeding with 1ml of camg, cause my water akmost have no ca and I saw deficiencies after 3-4 weeks already from sprout..

Thanks for your input man, greatly appreciated


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## b.real (Jun 19, 2013)

i have all the biobizzs u.s. labels if you want me to send them to you. sounds like youre not in the states though.


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## b.real (Jun 19, 2013)

botanicare pure blend is also a good almost fully organic fish meal with everything all in one.

*Guaranteed Analysis:*

Total Nitrogen (N): 2.0%
Total Nitrogen (N): 2.0% Water Soluble Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5): 3.0%
Soluble Potash (K2O): 5.0%
Calcium (Ca): 1.0%
Magnesium (Mg): 0.5%
Magnesium (Mg): 0.5% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)
ALSO CONTAINS NON-PLANT FOOD INGREDIENT: 0.15% Humic acid derived from leonardite.
Derived from: Fish Meal, Composted Seabird Guano, Kelp, Rock Phosphate, Potassium Carbonate, Magnesium Carbonate, Calcium Carbonate.


tiger bloom is good all in one, but its pure synthetics. most synthetics are always all in ones, except when they water them down like advaced nutes does LOLOL


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## Kite High (Jun 19, 2013)

simisimis said:


> yeah, from what I was feeding them, and now, that I see what I had to feed them is a big difference lol.. got used to those quantities from my previous grow when soil did not have additional nutes in it.
> 
> I sorta like biogrow, but when I see manufacturer putting on their page only icons and advertising sentences instead of normal msds info, it's a bit.. you start doubting them.. Also e.g. in growshoalien they have biobizz fishmix with 6-2-4 npk photo of the bottle, and official biobizz webpage shows npk is 5-3-4. I have biobloom in my closet as well, just don't use it as it's too high in P. Now I remembered one more thing. Aptus camg-boost has N-Ca-Mg 9-9-2. How could I forget that lol. So N from biogrow, N from soil and N from camg booster.. No wonder..
> 
> ...


correct...is ok to make them tell you as then you will learn....as I oonly feed and never just water...because I learned what they need and 
the subtle clues and they are never without...except for when I fuck up...like this run I totally forgot at first that c99 is a cal mag hog...was stumped for a couple of days...then remembered and been able to ride the barely burnt tips train for maximum fertilizer availability


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## simisimis (Jun 20, 2013)

b.real said:


> i have all the biobizzs u.s. labels if you want me to send them to you. sounds like youre not in the states though.


yeah man, I am living in Europe, Netherlands, so most of the ferts you guys use, cannot be found in here. I went to biobizz website and chose US as a country, same products, same emblem but when you press on it you see that NPK is different... I wonder why is that... Probably your label would differ from mine, but maybe you can send me biogrow one? 
Thanks



Kite High said:


> correct...is ok to make them tell you as then you will learn....as I oonly feed and never just water...*because I learned what they need and
> the subtle clues and they are never without*...except for when I fuck up...like this run I totally forgot at first that c99 is a cal mag hog...was stumped for a couple of days...then remembered and been able to ride the barely burnt tips train for maximum fertilizer availability


yeah man, could not said it better, they are always showing something, appreciation, stress, defs etc. Also common sense kicks in, timing.. All comes with exp. That's why it's so fun, cause it's not like you learned and you repeat it every time. It's like surfing, the aim is to keep balance and achieve as much as you can..

"c99 is a cal mag hog" you mean needs a lot? aren't burned tips coming from overfert? Or you mean those rusty spots on leaves and margins? Good to know, cause after that I'll get back to C99. Still need to beat that 40g per plant personal record lol ))

This morning I went to the room and Zamal did a lot of stretch through the night, again tops are bright green, she keeps playing with me, prob likes my attention hehe. Also I finally see what you mean saying that zamal will be stretchy and lanky, those shoots are stretching so much.. I started training not only zamal main colas but also their side branches as well.. nice to see that pot being filled with tops  Also it has preflowers only so still trying to keep her lying.

It surprises me how packed Destroyer is. Dest does some stretching durring the nigh, not so much through the day, And is covered with leaves and hairy bud sites. Shoots has thicker and shorter stems comparing to zamal. Strange cause is a second time when in a process they changed roles, who's tall and who's compact.. 

Temps are difficult to control, now it's around 82-86, never over 90. At night time 75. But today there's gonna be a temp drop and a heavy rain, so should be ok.
today it's 40 days of 12/12. Half time for dest(12 weeks), not yet for zamal(14). 

Here's pics of zamal from this morning


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## MrEDuck (Jun 20, 2013)

They look nice. CAn you bend the dominant colas down so that the canopy is all even?


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## simisimis (Jun 20, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> They look nice. CAn you bend the dominant colas down so that the canopy is all even?


thanks man!

I can bend them yeah, I was thinking whether I should do it, cause in past few days main branches were not growing that fast as side shoots, so I thought another 4 days and they'll be even... But anyway, since zamal has only preflowers, I'm expecting that girl to get some more height, so prob if would be wise to do the swastika thing.. ) with that cage and her lankiness it will be so easy to train her..


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## b.real (Jun 20, 2013)

canopy already looks super even. youre going to have lots of big colas from where they shouldnt have been in the first place  im going to lst my windowsill grow once to keep em low. i topped my blackout kush once, and though it now has two main colas, its still really tall! 

us biogrow is a 3-0-8 feed from beet vinasse (molasses)

*Guaranteed Analysis

*_Low Analysis Fertilizer

_Total Nitrogen (N) ...3.00%

2.99% Water Soluble Nitrogen

0.01% Water Insoluble Nitrogen

Soluble 
Potash (K2O) ...8.00%

*Derived from 
*Beet Vinasse.


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## simisimis (Jun 20, 2013)

well being even is one thing, but i can let it grow max 19" fot main ones and 21" for side shoots. zamal has still 8 weeks to go... 
our biogrow food differs id say 3-0-8 to 4-3-6 lol

now the good news,zamal is turning into a very happy plant haha, just came back and saw that so many leaves flatened, also did quite some growth. dest is also doing very nice, will be having some beautiful colas from her


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## MrEDuck (Jun 20, 2013)

I believe the Dutch calculate NPK differently than the Americans. I know it resulted in House and Garden having to relable their nutes and Canna did as well, P/K 13/14 has different numbers here. And you guys report drug purity as what percentage of the sample is the freebase of the active molecule. Weirdos


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## b.real (Jun 20, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> I believe the Dutch calculate NPK differently than the Americans. I know it resulted in House and Garden having to relable their nutes and Canna did as well, P/K 13/14 has different numbers here. And you guys report drug purity as what percentage of the sample is the freebase of the active molecule. Weirdos


freebase? and yeah, we really should standardized things so everyone has the same measurements.


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## MrEDuck (Jun 20, 2013)

Freebase is an alkaloid where the basic nitrogen is not bonded to an acidic proton forming a salt. In 100g of 100% pure MDMA*HCl you have 84g of freebase MDMA and 16 grams of the HCl which is what makes it a crystalline solid instead of a rather nasty oil.
The whole way that fertilizers report their mineral content is silly, they do things as the oxide for everything but nitrogen because you need to factor in the weight of non nitrate nitrogen but they convert exerything else to what it would be if it where the oxide.


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## buddygrow420 (Jun 20, 2013)

Looking good. Sometimes less is more! Thats my new philosophy.


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## simisimis (Jun 20, 2013)

wuahaha so when you and me are speaking npks, we actually aren't talking about the same... now that is funny... 

ok guys, now some sweet news with some more pics. I cannot emphasize enough how good it feels to have zamal back to business  how leaves turned from curly into beautiful green ones 
check her out followed by Dest.
Zamal:


And here is Destroyer:


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## b.real (Jun 20, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> Freebase is an alkaloid where the basic nitrogen is not bonded to an acidic proton forming a salt. In 100g of 100% pure MDMA*HCl you have 84g of freebase MDMA and 16 grams of the HCl which is what makes it a crystalline solid instead of a rather nasty oil.
> The whole way that fertilizers report their mineral content is silly, they do things as the oxide for everything but nitrogen because you need to factor in the weight of non nitrate nitrogen but they convert exerything else to what it would be if it where the oxide.


i am lost LOL, but i do know that the fertilizer registrations i found on biobizz are in ppms, but it didnt tell what it was dervied from so i emailed the guy. 

so in cut mdma there is even less freebase? i thought freebase was bad or something thats why you cant snort it? or is that a binder..i dont even know im lost bro sorry lol

these babies look amazing now. you are at optimal growth and will probably get closer to 1 gwp than i do. i usually yield 30-35 grams BUD WEIGHT NO STEMS from my plants under a 150 watt and 4 plants.. so like 150/4= 37.5 almost there.


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## MrEDuck (Jun 20, 2013)

Heroin and cocaine bases are sold for people to smoke, MDMA freebase is just nasty stuff that's a pain in the ass to handle. It's very similar in appearance to warm honey but it will also burn your skin. Making it into the hydrochloride salt gets rid of that problem and puts it into a crystalline form that doesn't require you wear gloves to handle it.


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## Kite High (Jun 20, 2013)

You're welcome


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## simisimis (Jun 20, 2013)

buddygrow420 said:


> Looking good. Sometimes less is more! Thats my new philosophy.


That's a very good philosophy, presented by some experienced forum growers, but only if you know how much is less and how much is more, if not, you are going to go through less is less/= or more is less...




b.real said:


> these babies look amazing now. you are at optimal growth and will probably get closer to 1 gwp than i do. i usually yield 30-35 grams BUD WEIGHT NO STEMS from my plants under a 150 watt and 4 plants.. so like 150/4= 37.5 almost there.


Thanks man, lesson learned and can't wait to adapt it 
well I'll better not guess how much I will yield, cause everytime I tried to guess I was about right.. it's just that I was guessing with little numbers.. my first grow - 1plant with 150W of cfls yielded 40g. My second grow 2 plants with 150W hps and 2x25W cfls - 32+36 dried stemless buds. 
so 
1st grow - 0.26gpw
2nd grow - 0.34gpw

0.5 for me already would be improvement


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## simisimis (Jun 20, 2013)

Kite High said:


> You're welcome


Oh yes of course, sorry man, if sometimes I forget to say, no way it could be interpreted as not meaning it! THANK YOU!!! ))


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## simisimis (Jun 21, 2013)

evening guys, ofc for most of u that doesn't apply since we're like on 7 hours difference, anyway, all those naive thoughts that zamal will not stretch.. well let's just forget about them... she's maaad. still showing preflowers only and she's almost fully forming swastica shape.. well i still got her like 20" but i miss those days when she had short internodes.. it is so easy to train her. bended, tied, formed without any trouble. the lights went off so will show some pics tmr. also im a bit worried, 4 days since leaching her and soil is still soaked, one cola started showing what i suspect overwatering symptoms.. will see tomorrow morning. anyway, enjoy ur friday!


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## simisimis (Jun 22, 2013)

Update... big time! 6 weeks into flowering.
This time will be a bit more photos. Yeah been posting a lot of pics lately, but here are some more. First of all, as always Zamaldelica.. gosh I like this name.. Sounds so.. delicate haha.
Yesterday morning trained her, this morning she's looking really good. Except one little overwatering thing. I think that it's overwatering, cause temps been good lately, RH ~50-55%, and soil surface is still completely wet. Anyway, you can see those symptoms on those 2 colas tops only, the rest of the plant looks amazing. I checked in the journal her pictures 10days ago and gosh she changed  Also she is having very thin stems.. I cant imagine her holding anything else except the fan leaves.. But maybe it will get fatter as she will start forming buds. Today I've spent like 1.5 hour of just being in that room. Can't get enough of those beauties  Also most of the shoots were already above the top cage, after training you can see that they wend back quite a bit. So here are some pics of Zamal, and then will continue about Destroyer.

Leaves and those thin stems


Now here are some training


And here is happy and not so happy tops.



Destroyer.
This is one helluva lady.. Her bud sites starts almost at the very base of the plant and proceeds up to the top every 1-2 inches. Is loaded with leaves and stigmas.. Although she's packed like indica, the skinny and long leave blades does not leave any doubt about her being sativa strain. Roots are already coming out of the bottom of the pot, I am so curious how microkote is doing its job there and how the roots will look on the harvest day  There's also so many 3 budsites instead of 2 on the nodes. Leaves are green all the way down to the ground, so far no deficiencies, Cool.. 
here, have a peak at her


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## sadface (Jun 22, 2013)

girls are filling out! very nice


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## MrEDuck (Jun 22, 2013)

They look good! Nice job training them to fit a small space.


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## simisimis (Jun 22, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> They look good! Nice job training them to fit a small space.


Yeah this strain was very into training.. That cage helped a million, almost like vertical scrogging lol. I'm just worried about those long and thin stems. My potassium silicate will come next week, hopefully this will make them at least a bit thicker. Also I wich I could let Zamal already start climbing up, but it does not have bud sites yet, so better be safe than sorry..


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## simisimis (Jun 22, 2013)

ha i found this on other riu thread about destroyer -


> I am growing this strain and it's about 7 weeks into flowering. It definitely needs 12 weeks but because I do perpetual harvests with many different strains this does not bother me. It is extremely bushy with literally hundreds of bud sites. I'm still only seeing white hairs (no girth to buds whatsoever). I'll post some pics for you all to see. Peace


cause i was already starting to think that they sent me the wrong bean lol


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## b.real (Jun 22, 2013)

Looks great. What light you running?


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## simisimis (Jun 22, 2013)

i bought 150w hps on my previous grow, and made diy reflector to hold 6 cfls plus 1 hps. but later Kite told me about CMH and CDM lamps, wince my magnetic hps/mh ballast supports cmh and cdm, i bought 150w cmh bulb. my god that was a bargain. the lamp produces 3000K colour, plants appreciate it way more, my camera as well  for now i use only 2x 25w additional cfls, but when the plant will get bigger ill add 2 more for side lighting..


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## b.real (Jun 22, 2013)

how do the temps stay ok, especially so close to the lights?


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## simisimis (Jun 22, 2013)

its colder outside now. around 18C, so inside with doors open temps are 26C at the very top with a fan blowing on them, but when it was 28C outside, inside it was ~30C, with a max of 32C. sorry for Celsius, im on a phone, a bit inconvenient to convert. i would not say 150hps produce that much more heat comparing to 150w of 25watters i had.. 

btw just checked on the girls overwatering seems to go away, those 2 tops got better, also i think zamal started making bud sites, soon i might not need to train her anymore


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## b.real (Jun 22, 2013)

thanks man! yeah, im running ~90f (which is about 32c) at canopy, but im not really sure its hurting anything. if it is hurting resin content, i might switch to 150 watts of cfl, but youre saying theyre just as hot?


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## simisimis (Jun 22, 2013)

at least for me it went few degrees up, but only like 2-4.. difficult to say, cause i was using cfls in wintertime and i got hps somewhere on february.. altgough it was quite cold until april. also at first i was using 150w cfl and growing one plant, on hps grow i was also using additional 100w of cfls and growing two strains in total, but if you already have like 90F its a bit risky. on mel franks book author wrote about studies when weed potency from the same strains were way bigger when temps were 70-80, on 90F weed potency of some strains were way less potent, on some only few percents.. you should get someone else to confirm on this..


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## simisimis (Jun 24, 2013)

Good day dear readers and subscribers. Hope you're doing fine. Today I started googling more about my strains and what to expect from them but I finally got anxious about my lack of understanding about the phenos.. Really, tried googling, or seeing two two same looking pictures which had a comment that one has pheno of thai and another of african, like e.g. here: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=232614
I just do not get it, how can e.g. I can look at my plants and tell what phenos do they have? Any tips would be greatly appreciated of how you do that guys.. 
Thanks!


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## james2500 (Jun 24, 2013)

good morning simi.......went to that link...looks like the same effing plant huh? i have 2 liberty haze from barney's farm and they are def 2 pheno's i can tell because the structure of the plants and even the leaf shapes are very different, myself i prefer my strains being stable so no surprises. i'll take some pix here to share.


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## simisimis (Jun 24, 2013)

james2500 said:


> good morning simi.......went to that link...looks like the same effing plant huh? i have 2 liberty haze from barney's farm and they are def 2 pheno's i can tell because the structure of the plants and even the leaf shapes are very different, myself i prefer my strains being stable so no surprises. i'll take some pix here to share.


oh ok, so I'm not going crazy lol, I though they see something different than I do. Maybe there's something very small like more wax looking leaves or something.. 
Yeah sure post some, I'd love to check 'em out


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## james2500 (Jun 24, 2013)

well here we are then, night and day


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## simisimis (Jun 24, 2013)

james2500 said:


> well here we are then, night and day
> View attachment 2711503
> View attachment 2711504


Yes indeed, I see what you mean man, thanks  btw those are helluva beauties


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## james2500 (Jun 24, 2013)

thanks, mh for now, gonna switch to hps today and flower these bitches


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## simisimis (Jun 25, 2013)

Morning!
So looks like stretching for Zamal is over. In few days it gained quite little height I'd say, however she is nicely filling up the cage space with side branches. Today I finally got my potassium silicate. Cant wait to start applying it and see if there will be any noticeable difference  Although I'm not sure if I'm not too late with it. Also I'll be able to water only Destroyer, cause almost a week passed since leaching Zamal, however she is still incredibly wet from top to bottom. A good thing that she does not show any overwatering signs. Well a bit on one cola, but the rest 3 are doing fine, so are side branches. 

Destroyer looks incredible. Quite small, stem looks very nice and whole cage is filled with leaves and buds. Started to fill in those budsites. Holy hairiness... 
Ok enough talking. lets Troll It Up this thread with some pictures.

Zamaldelica




Destroyer:


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## KangarooBunny (Jun 25, 2013)

You've got *it*, man. Those are some nice plants! 

I'm definitely thinking about the cages. Looks so simple to train like that. Was the material you used intentional because of the coating on it?


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## simisimis (Jun 25, 2013)

hehe thanks man. Nah, I have only 3gal pot coated with microkote. When MrEDuck suggested to use that I went into some tools store and they were selling this green fence 2' height, so I bought 2'x3' then cut it in half and applied on those pots. But you know, if the plant is stretchy and lanky like zamal, training goes incredibly well, if that would be SLH, I could not do a thing with it... Depends on a strain you're growing  I used it not because of the coating but only because it had proper grid pattern, not too big or not too small...


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## MrEDuck (Jun 25, 2013)

Those fences are made for training vegetables to so it shouldn't be surprising they work really well for their intended purpose. They're usually coated so they can stand up to the elements longer. Not really a concern indoors but it's a major one outside.
Nice training. Destroyer is looking nice. She really filled that space. And Zamal is finally looking to be making flowers. So like 10 more weeks?


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## simisimis (Jun 25, 2013)

Yeah man, thanks, destroyer is really looking nice.. difficult to make normal picture, because of auto exposure if I make it too bright, then you cannot see how the tops look like, I'f I decrease the light, you cannot check of whats going inside the plant.. But oh my, it filled the space so beautifully and stigmas exploded through every node haha. Zamal finally started making flowers, but 10 more weeks? ouch.. hopefully 8.. but oh well.. with zamal it feels like I should make 11/13 or 11.5/12.5 instead of 12/12, cause it's not triggering the flowering properly.. Or maybe I just need to be more patient )


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## KangarooBunny (Jun 25, 2013)

Cool cool. I have so much 2''x4'' galvanized fencing left over from a project. 

Thanks for the great idea. My next grow is going to be interesting.


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## simisimis (Jun 25, 2013)

KangarooBunny said:


> Cool cool. I have so much 2''x4'' galvanized fencing left over from a project.
> 
> Thanks for the great idea. My next grow is going to be interesting.


haha it's always like that, you start your grow and you know already that your next one will be way more interesting )) good luck man, make sure you journal, so we could all have fun


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## buddygrow420 (Jun 25, 2013)

Lookin good man. It's interesting how some plants handle the stress of the grow differently.


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## hopeyougotadutch (Jun 26, 2013)

Somebody's been busy. Looking awesome man. You and Kite already added C99 to my wishlist, let's see what else you can add. Hopefully there's enough time left in your sativas for me to catch up.


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## MrEDuck (Jun 26, 2013)

hopeyougotadutch said:


> Somebody's been busy. Looking awesome man. You and Kite already added C99 to my wishlist, let's see what else you can add. Hopefully there's enough time left in your sativas for me to catch up.


They're full sativas, you've got plenty of time


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## simisimis (Jun 27, 2013)

yeah man, although destroyer looks like she's going to be ready in less than 6 weeks.. i see resin production on buds and leaves already.. and man, c99 is real good, definitely go for it. it takes only 49-52 days from flip, for such a sativa high 49 days? cmon haha.. i personally will take it partially at day 46 for my wife and other sissy smokers who find day 52 too strong lol. 

guys, i have a question, ihave to fly away for 6 days, so i was trying to make it simple for the person who will take care of my plants so i prepared nutes with potasium silicate and calmag additive and seaweed and this morning i found something floating in the water, wool looking mass.. so i was wondering what could have happened in there, was it silica that reacted with e.g. calmag? if yes if i will water it, will the plant still be getting those reacted nutes?
thanks


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## Kite High (Jun 27, 2013)

Destroyer may be rady in 8-9 weeks


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## simisimis (Jun 27, 2013)

Kite High said:


> Destroyer may be rady in 8-9 weeks


Hey Kite, how are you man? how's your Cindy harvest? 

thanks for comment, probably I was comparing to those fast lowering strains lol.. so in total from seed it's even longer than 14 weeks then? not that I mind that, I really like the idea that I will have destroyer colas filled with budsites  plants are looking amazing, non of the leaves dropped except for those 2 on the first node and 1 on the 2nd node, the rest are beautifully green. I probably would still be feeding bloom food if not for you


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## Kite High (Jun 27, 2013)

simisimis said:


> Hey Kite, how are you man? how's your Cindy harvest?








Working on it


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## b.real (Jun 27, 2013)

Kite high, awesome plants! What light did you run? And youre not supposed to mix nutes or theyll form weird insolubles (or so biobizz says)


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## Kite High (Jun 27, 2013)

b.real said:


> Kite high, awesome plants! What light did you run? And youre not supposed to mix nutes or theyll form weird insolubles (or so biobizz says)


Those are just 2 of the tops out of 16 from one of the four plants. Thank you. I run 2 400 watt cmh on movers overhead and 400 watt cmh/mh/hps vertical in a cool tube with 8 T5 ho 54 watt 2 tubes per corner in a 5x5x9 height room. 

Fertilizers should mix with any other. IMO either it is a ploy to get you to use their product exclusively or they are using sources that will react due to inferior chemical composition. Best to always dilute in solution the mix and observe for precip when not sure.


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## simisimis (Jun 27, 2013)

very nice Kite, happy for you, but i can't say i did not see it comming hehe, do you rotate plants to get uvb evenly on buds?

what i did i added silica to water and let it be overnight, next day i added camg and seaweed and 2nd morning it was like wool in the water floating on top, when i shook it, it went down.
maybe those amino acids in aptus camg-boost reacted to potasium silicate...

lol missed the plain so instead of 5 hours travel i landed 430 miles away from destination and had to take a bus, lol ended up in 22 hours on the road hehe


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## b.real (Jun 27, 2013)

that sucks. i drove acorss the coast recently for vaca, but we stayed overnight in a hotel halfway there and back.


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## Highocaine (Jun 27, 2013)

Looking really good so far! Love the trunk shots, bet they have rebar-like stems down there.
As far as 100% sativas indoors go, I guess 12/12 from seed is the way to do it.. too long otherwise, plus they grow huge without veg anyway.


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## Kite High (Jun 27, 2013)

simisimis said:


> very nice Kite, happy for you, but i can't say i did not see it comming hehe, do you rotate plants to get uvb evenly on buds?
> 
> what i did i added silica to water and let it be overnight, next day i added camg and seaweed and 2nd morning it was like wool in the water floating on top, when i shook it, it went down.
> maybe those amino acids in aptus camg-boost reacted to potasium silicate...
> ...


Yes they are turned 1/4 daily


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## james2500 (Jun 28, 2013)

*

Yes they are turned 1/4 daily....or you could do em a full turn 4 times a day.....wait.....​




*


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## Kite High (Jun 28, 2013)

1/4 the diameter turned once a day. Better?


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## simisimis (Jun 28, 2013)

dunno about u guys, but for me it's so stressing not to see my girls for 1 week.. like sitting on needles 2000km away from them lol... on the other hand progress is wayyyy more noticeable than seeing them twice a day.. 

damn i wish could toke your cindies Kite with their trippyness maxed out. prob i'd see 3 dimensional "cartoons on my walls" lol


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## b.real (Jun 28, 2013)

i hear ya man. let me tell you something, i left my plants for a week, threw them by the windowsill and made them a sip tray. they looked a little less green than usual, but healthier than ever from just leaving em be for a bit!


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## sadface (Jun 29, 2013)

yeah man I just back from a business trip, scary as shit leaving the girls lol. But they are hardy plants! I know yours will be fine. 

PS. Kite, nice harvest man, im jelly


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## g00sEgg (Jun 30, 2013)

b.real said:


> i hear ya man. let me tell you something, i left my plants for a week, threw them by the windowsill and made them a sip tray. they looked a little less green than usual, but healthier than ever from just leaving em be for a bit!


lol you contradicted yourself. "Less green than usual...but healthier than ever". But yeah...I tend to leave mine alone for a few days every once in a while so I can see some progress.


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## b.real (Jun 30, 2013)

g00sEgg said:


> lol you contradicted yourself. "Less green than usual...but healthier than ever". But yeah...I tend to leave mine alone for a few days every once in a while so I can see some progress.


they grow better when they arent stressed by an abundance of nitrogen. im going to start knocking off A LOT of nitrogen in bloom to try and get the smoothest smoke possible.

my thc bomb was partially flushed and its so much more smooth than any of my other "green" pulls.


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## Kite High (Jun 30, 2013)

Taste and aroma are from drying curing correctly. Flushing pre harvest is harmful not beneficial and N is needed til the end


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## b.real (Jun 30, 2013)

Kite High said:


> Taste and aroma are from drying curing correctly. Flushing pre harvest is harmful not beneficial and N is needed til the end


i was reading about the nitrogen cycle and what nitrogen really is (type of gas), and if the fertilizer is in the flower or sugar leaf after harvest, it wont make its way out of the bud during the dry. during the dry the stem closes its wounds and tries to keep all water and food inside. a cure can help distribute everything throughout the buds, so its not in a concetrated area in the bud, which only helps the product. the real deciding factor though is the flush.

a proper flush helps the bud be super smooth. my thc bomb is super smooth, my diesel was not flushed well and is harsh, and master kush was ok. 

if you use synthetics, the direct element/mineral/whatever that hasnt been processed by a plant or animal first (organics through a fish, or through an earthworm or a horse as manure) then youll be inhaling harsh proteins.

franko from green house seeds suggests removing fan leaves 2-3 weeks before harvest in order for it to stop making so much sugar. when we grow food like tomatoes, we want proper startch in the fruits to give it a nice taste, all the way up until harvest, but when we want flowers to inhale we want everything out of them. .


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## b.real (Jun 30, 2013)

flush article: http://www.strainhunters.com/site/index.php/index.html/_/articles/grow-articles/francos-tricks-on-flushing-the-medium-r44

i like a simple flush a week prior to harvest with tap water (low ec attaches to solutes in soil and pulls em out) and then a final flush couple days before harvest with filtered water if im not lazy. if i use a 64 oz pot i flush with 64 oz, sometimes a little more if im not lazy lol

sorry, he didnt say remove fan leaves 2-3 weeks before harvest he said this:

"Pre-harvesting means removing most of the large fan-leaves from the plants during the last days of the flowering cycle, before cutting them down for manicuring and drying. Pre-harvesting helps reducing the total amount of green material (water and chlorophyll) in the crop. Once the big fan-leaves (the ones that have no resin on) have been removed, the plants reduce the amount of photosynthesis, and produce less starches. This allows for sweeter and better-burning weed, and makes the whole harvesting process much easier and faster.
In conclusion, it is up to the grower to identify the weakest points of the grow, and improve from there. Curiosity and will to improve are the key factors to a green thumb. During flowering, a lot can be done to ensure a great crop; and itâ&#8364;&#8482;s all worth it."


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## b.real (Jun 30, 2013)

for you heavy feeders..this is the lockout thats "around the corner" that im glad you saved your plant from simisimis 

"In earth, salts build up at a slower pace than in hydroponics, but it is also more difficult to wash them away. Once the fertilization program is under way, it will take 3 to 4 weeks for salts to start building up, and another week before it can do any harm to the plants. Therefore, it is advisable to start flushing plants that are growing in earth around week 5-6 of the cycle.
"


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## Kite High (Jun 30, 2013)

b.real said:


> flush article: http://www.strainhunters.com/site/index.php/index.html/_/articles/grow-articles/francos-tricks-on-flushing-the-medium-r44
> 
> i like a simple flush a week prior to harvest with tap water (low ec attaches to solutes in soil and pulls em out) and then a final flush couple days before harvest with filtered water if im not lazy. if i use a 64 oz pot i flush with 64 oz, sometimes a little more if im not lazy lol
> 
> ...


Stainhunters!! LMFAO!! Ok believe all their lies and learn the hard way. I am not arguing this again for the millionth time. It just bullshit hype and has not a shred of botany in it.


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## b.real (Jun 30, 2013)

thats fine, i know that when my flowers are less green they are a lot more smooth. this is the main reason i started growing, street buds around here HURT.

to each his own.


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## Kite High (Jun 30, 2013)

b.real said:


> thats fine, i know that when my flowers are less green they are a lot more smooth. this is the main reason i started growing, street buds around here HURT.
> 
> to each his own.


Do you use high P bloom fertilizers to boost flower production?


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## b.real (Jun 30, 2013)

currently 2-2-2 fish food and 4-4-4 organic meal granules. switching to 1-2-2 biobizz bloom i *think*


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## b.real (Jun 30, 2013)

some examples of flushing. master kush was not properly flushed, so she was a bit harsh, but an amazing smoke none the less. cheesy kush.

(kush x skunk #1) perfect example/pheno of it



first ever acid/diesel harvest..gonna get my windowsill plants flat like a fish like my lstd nice pheno of acid. all smoke is the same, but some plants have different growing patterns. you can see the dark and the lighter plant..the small one was flushed better..guess big girl needed more water for flushing 

awesome phenos from the same hermie acid parent. i grow the hermie every season and she gives me some seeds wauahaha  

(chemdawg x super skunk x n.l.) one bad pheno. you can see the skunk in both of course..the crazy growing chemdawg in veg espeically, skunk ALWAYS wins after stretch.. n.l. im not so sure about it, its hidden haha 



currently flushing jamaicas blackout kush. nice strong smell like chemdawg, but different. more chocolatey yess lol


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## Kite High (Jul 1, 2013)

nevermind...keep flushing....Keep em green


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## simisimis (Jul 1, 2013)

b.real you wrote so much about flushing, but none of how the plants were cured. i do not believe that flushing theory, not anymore as it is practice which 30+ years growers do not use.. i kept my plants all green till the end and cured them with humidipacks that has two way 62% rh control, taste from them was soft as silk. while my flushed plant was all yellow on harvest day, flushed and not fed for 10 days, tasted not only harsh but also had old grass taste... that one was drying and jar burping method... I'm planning to keep them green till the day i'll chop them


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## b.real (Jul 1, 2013)

thats fine. ive grown plants green to end, and ive also flushed hard (by accident!), and i can tell you 100% the flushed bud is more smooth. 

to dry i cut fan leaves and hang for 5-7 days. then i cut the flowers from the stems and i lay them down to dry for another 2-3 days (they dry a lot quicker when cut from the stalk). i then jar and burp 1-2 times a day.

if they flowers are still too damp and sticking together ill leave the jar open during the day and close it overnight since the humidity is usually higher at night.


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## simisimis (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey ho!

Finally got back home.. my god, weekend was exhausting... that's what happens when you go away from your family and friends for more than half a year.. Well anyway my plants survived, so here's the update.

Destroyer:
I think that it's pretty safe to say that destroyer really stopped stretching, cause in those 6 days it grew maybe half of an inch. It's green as (green)fuck lol. BUT I saw one very interesting change on it. Leaves got some shiny surface, plastic-like and this changed after I added potassium silicate. Must be related. It's impossible to see the stem, it's so heavily loaded with leaves and budsites and short internodes. I was wondering whether microkote takes parts in this plant structure or it's only genes, anyway I'm very happy with this plant. Those 4 colas are fattening and looking nice, although side branches which managed to get the same height as main colas are way skinnier. One of the main colas tops split into two, you can see that in pics. Looks like I said everything I wanted about destroyer, lets proceed further  

Zamaldelica:
Oh bhoy.. I guess this is the time when quite a lot of people should start saying - "I told you so" )))) 
well she decided to grow not the way I expected lol. side branches which was equal with main colas stretched like 5-7 inches, long internodes, not much of budsites, but main colas stayed in the same place, probably did not grow even an inch, but produced a bit of stigmas. It's a pity I did not take pictures yesterday before training so I could show you how it looked. Was too tired from journey. After training plant was again at the same level, but oh my.. it's becoming a real mess in there lol, however I still have that 1 foot of grow space for them. But really if for destroyer there's 7-8 weeks left, so for zamaldelica it should be still 12-14... they look sooo far away from each other. Also because zamal is so skinny and stretchy, I can see everything clearly in there, light can penetrate all the way to the bottom. 
Yesterday I finally watered zamal (for the first time after leaching it) with silica and other nutes, she showed a bit of N deficiency on her lowest nodes. It really surprises me that those 5 gallons stayed wet for 14 days lol... 

So.. The pics. There are a lot of them, I know, but some show lanky stems curled around the cage, some shows leaves affected by silica, some colas, so make sure you pay attention to the details, not just fast scroll them 

*Destroyer:*


*Zamaldelica:*


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## MrEDuck (Jul 3, 2013)

Looking good man! Looks like Zamal is finally figuring out that whole flowering thing.


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## simisimis (Jul 3, 2013)

btw, i received tds meter today, not that i would use it a lot, just a thing to have in my growkit, so i wanted to ask somth. is european ppm the same as us? prob it is, just don't want to get surprised like with npk values )) another thing, if my tap water is like 298ppm, can you describe my water from this measure? thanks guys!


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## Kite High (Jul 3, 2013)

Water. Should have plenty calcium and magnesium. What conversion factor or foryour meter? .5 or. 7?


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## MrEDuck (Jul 3, 2013)

There's a few different conversion from EC to ppm, all of them are for converting to ppm of specific ions. I'm a fan of just using EC because there is no confusion over conversion issues.


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## simisimis (Jul 3, 2013)

ok, so my item conversion factor is 0.5 
also i doubt that my water contains a lot calcium, since i've never seen lime collecting in my kettle.. but is it normal for tap water to have 300?


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## MrEDuck (Jul 3, 2013)

Water can have a fair amount of calcium and still be soft. So you have just under 0.60 EC tap water. In a soilless system like yours that will be fine. I'd suggest RO for hydroponics. The 0.5 scale is equivalent to ppm in a solution of table salt. You should have plenty of Ca and Mg though.


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## simisimis (Jul 4, 2013)

thank you guys for comments! great info. Here have a bite of this destroyer newly forming corn ))


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## simisimis (Jul 4, 2013)

and about that cal mag being plenty in the water, actually don't know how much of it are there, but after 3 weeks from seed i was already seeing mag deficiency.. but maybe those micros were locked out, dunno.. also did not know that calcium might be not only in lime form, was just assuming that because water after boiling did not leave lime, that calcium wasn't there hehe..


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## Kite High (Jul 4, 2013)

I use ro water so must always add cal-mag. Keep it on hand and when you get to mid flower boost cal mag K and sulfur til 2 weeks from chop. If you do you will be pleasantly impressed.


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## simisimis (Jul 4, 2013)

thank you man! nice tips. I'm still thinking where to get sulfur from. Maybe I should get epsom salt for that reason? Also K, difficult to find K that goes without insane amounts of P lol.. BTW that silica rocks hard as hell... plants make leaves tough shiny healthy green. Maybe I started applying that too late, cause stems are not that outstanding, but hey, only a week passed since I started using it, I should be more patient, nonetheless I already like it so much  

Also those NPK values differs around here in EU, I can get into such a mess buying one product and getting totally different lol  

Do you think that topviagra is any good supplying sulfur and extra K?


edit: i mean use that one as additive with my grow food


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## MrEDuck (Jul 4, 2013)

Some good P free sources of K, potassium nitrate (KNO3), potassium sulfate (K2SO4), potassium hydroxide (KOH, which is the hydrated version of K2O, be careful this is extremely caustic stuff), remember that your silica supplement (I can't remember if you're using protekt or some funny european equivalent) is potassium silicate. 
One of these days I need to get my hands on some metal salts and start experimenting with my own nutes.


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## Kite High (Jul 4, 2013)

simisimis said:


> thank you man! nice tips. I'm still thinking where to get sulfur from. Maybe I should get epsom salt for that reason? Also K, difficult to find K that goes without insane amounts of P lol.. BTW that silica rocks hard as hell... plants make leaves tough shiny healthy green. Maybe I started applying that too late, cause stems are not that outstanding, but hey, only a week passed since I started using it, I should be more patient, nonetheless I already like it so much
> 
> Also those NPK values differs around here in EU, I can get into such a mess buying one product and getting totally different lol
> 
> ...


jacksclassic acid special 14%,sulfur


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## MrEDuck (Jul 4, 2013)

I think a mix of MgSO4, CaNO3, KNO3, with a little bit of K(x)H(3-x)PO4 with chelated micros would work really well. You only need 5 metal salts to cover the big 6 (you'll need KOH and H3PO4 to make the potassium phosphate mixture).


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## simisimis (Jul 5, 2013)

man you're insane  I wish I did not skip chemistry lessons, although it feels new to me, but not that difficult as it was in chemistry lessons long time ago 

I am really unable to get jacks classics.. again, every time I ask internet for something you guys use I get that famous "sparta kick into the well" with a headline - "THIS IS EUROPE!!!"
about potasium silicate, well for me to buy protekt was a bit of a struggle, so I went for it's alternative. www.potsil.com actually this is not like a combination of micros and macros where other products compete, this is the same potassium silicate(K2SiO3) just instead of 11% concentration it's 33% so I just need to add less of it. But OH MY, both plants and all three tomatoes of mine showed strong healthy foliage with it. Cool.

I just ordered potassium sulphate and calcium nitrate Ca(No3)2 (whoa now that is some hipster paste lol) hm still thinking if I'd get potassium nitrate(KnO3) and monopotassium phospahte(KH2PO4) and perhaps epsom salts, maybe I could start doing some salt magic haha. hmmm, probably I need to read way more before getting into this salty world..


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## MrEDuck (Jul 5, 2013)

Look up Hoagland's solution, it's a good starting point for plant nutrient composition.


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## simisimis (Jul 8, 2013)

Nice, thank you, will have a look at it. Today noticed that all my salts will be delivered to uk, lol forgot to double check delivery address on ebay before ordering, so it went to the same place microkote was delivered before. Temps are rising outside.. Can't control it, so far plants do not look very much different, Zamal a bit less happy, Destroyer does not show any problems. Hopefully it won't last forever. Cause today after coming back from work temp was at 91F. 

Zamal started making budsites, still at the early age, gosh she's slow, but she's getting there. 
Kite you still plan on running zamal or will go for malawi?
Destroyer looks yummi.. leaves are covered with resin, colas are getting weight, the height is fully controlled, it has like 3 colas at one level, and 6 at 2 inches lower. 

Zamaldelica:


Destroyer:


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## simisimis (Jul 8, 2013)

Ha, also recently got the message from biobizz,
--
Thank you for your interest in our products. To clear up the issue between Dutch and USA Biobizz products:

They are exactly the same products. But in the USA we must write direct available NPK&#8217;s on the bottle, but in Europe we must write the TOTAL available NPK&#8217;s. So the same products, but two different parameters for measuring the NPK&#8217;s.

We hope this answers your question,
--

EDIT:

so here are some conversion:
biogrow(NL) is 4-3-6 and biogrow(US) 3-0-8
biobloom(NL) is 2.0-7-4 and biobloom(US) 1-2-2


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## MrEDuck (Jul 9, 2013)

Destroyer is looking awesome. Good job training her! Zamal will do her thing in time.


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## sadface (Jul 9, 2013)

I thought I was following a long, obviously not. Holy crap those look dead sexy.


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## simisimis (Jul 11, 2013)

aaahhh the heat is over, back to 66F outside, 77F at the tops of plants. A bit funny, while others are complaining of not having summer, I secretly giggle as every cold day give my plants a break.

Not too much of update today, since visual change is not very noticeable.
Destroyer started pushing resin on the bottom of fan leaves lol. Thats unusual for me, but reading description of the strain at seed banks website which states that it's extremely resinous, probably I could have expected this coming. The smell of it is a bit funny. Reminds me of my grandmas apartment old furniture. 
Plants started to drink more. 

Now some problems. This morning bottom fan leaves of destroyer(like 5 of them) were wilted and dropped on gentle touch. Strange, cause they did not pale, or showed any deficiencies, they were a bit damaged, cause they were touching the ground and when watered their tips were sticking to wet soil, but were fine all the time and in one night they just wilted, soil did not feel like really dried, it was about time to water the plant, however far from being too late as the weight of the pot was still a bit heavy. Here's the pic.


Zamaldelica looks alright on the whole, filling the empty spaces, packing some buds, but few days ago, her top fan leaves petioles became red/purple, top leaves almost all look alright, only one of the tops shows some light N excess, the rest of the shoots look alright, except for the purple petiole thing. 
Here are more pics of Dest resinous fan leaves, plants and whole grow area.


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## MrEDuck (Jul 11, 2013)

I really want to run Destroyer.


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## Kite High (Jul 11, 2013)

The leave damage loos most likely due to getting wet with fertilizer solution. No worries IMO. I WANT TO RUN ZAMAL AND MALAWI!! Destroyer I will decide after sim's smoke report.


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## simisimis (Jul 11, 2013)

yeah man, looks like im gonna have to do some reports then. im a bit scared of malawi lol. but im pretty sure zamal is not too far from it.. anyway with my setup i guess it wont be half trippy as with yours it would be with all uvb and such.. 
btw Kite, how's your cindies? trippy as expected? in the end which day you chose to cut it? 49? 52? do you already know how much you yielded? or you don't count your harvest in grams and oz'es?
i'd really love to apply everything i learned on cindies hehe, prob this will be my next run, but for now tongue is sweating for destroyer and mind is waiting for some trippy boost from zamal


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## sadface (Jul 13, 2013)

sorry cant help with the problems, but I will admit they do sound peculiar. Also the resin on the stem was crazy never seen that either. Overall they still look good in my eyes.


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## simisimis (Jul 13, 2013)

9 weeks from flip.. 63days 12/12, 68days since the seeds sprouted.. been a wonderful time and hopefully it will stay that way.

First lets start from problems. This morning again destroyer dropped some bottom fan leaves, like 5 of them. Same as yesterday. Those leaves were not touching the soil, did not have any contact with the water I was pouring to the pot. They looked healthy green leaves from the first glance. But then I compared them to other leaves. The healthy ones are very dark, whereas those which fell are lighter green, so maybe it was a lack of nitrogen.. Since I leached Zamaldelica i was feeding them both with 1ml per liter of grow food. Well actually I was mixing the following(with additives):
1ml of silica/ 1ml ca-mg/3ml liquid seeweed /1ml biogrow. 
silica and camg as recommended on package. liquid seeweed is recommended 5ml/L. biogrow 4ml/L. 
Plants got bigger, feeding schedule remained the same, so today I increased biogrow from 1ml to 2ml. The tester showed 1150ppm.

*Leaves*
Zamaldelica looks healthy green. Its green color is way lighter comparing to Destroyer, but those are two different strains so no wonder..
After adding silica now both plants show shiny plastic like leaves, they look stronger and healthier. Love it.. I wonder if that's silica or potassium responsible for this. or both..
Zamaldelica looks nice, but some leaves are cupped, like showing some N excess, heat stress or overwatering.. still not sure, cause N excess appears on top first, but some leaves bend down in the middle, while top looks nice. might be heat stress.. Having difficulties to get the temps below 80. usually it's 80-85, sometimes 90.

*Stems*
Their stems look funny at the conjunctions of branches. ofc nothing special in here, this is the way plant grows, still looks funny. Especially little chimney on Destroyer.
Zamal:


Dest:
 

*Buds. *
_Destroyer:_
Destroyer continues on packing weight on its colas, yesterday I even had to tie one cola to the cage because the weight was pushing the branch down. Looking really nice, budsites start almost at the very base and climbs till very top. So 7-12" long colas on 8-13" long branches.. Still somewhat airy, but packing is far from being done, I guess still like 3-5 more weeks.. Lower buds stigmas are already getting some browning.

_Zamal: _
Zamal in past week made quite a progress in bud production, although a bit strange, cause her stigmas are very tiny(comparing to destroyer) and they are still so small and already have quite a lot of brown ones.

Now here are some more pics of my ladies. check out the curled leaves, brownish budsites and whatever else you find in there 
Destroyer:


Zamaldelica:


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## Kite High (Jul 13, 2013)

heat moisture stress a bit

BUT they look decent dude


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## chemtrailsrbad (Jul 14, 2013)

Hey simisimis!

Great looking plants you have there. I have a 150w HPS sitting in the cupboard doing nothing. Was hoping in the near future to start a 12/12 grow based on Cees's grow method on the no mercy supply site. You can cram lots of plants into a small space with growing them under the right mix of fluoros on 12/12 until they show signs of sex which is usually no later than 21 days. Then they are put under the HPS, still 12/12 of course, to complete flowering. All plants must be started from seed with this method as clones need to be in veg and vegging is a no no with this method. He pulls a 1g per watt every with 7 harvests per year.

Seeds may seem expensive if buying from the UK, well for me they are as I'm short of cash ATM. But no mercy supply sells seeds at just under £2 a pop if buying a few at a time which seems viable to me. Although there's charges for deliver from NL plus bank charges for sending money internationally. But all in all I will be giving them an order soon and hope that using his methods, most turn out to be females 

However I love your plants and they look lush with only a 150w light. Can't wait to see final harvest amount, will you be weighing the final amount to see how much dry you are pulling from a 150w?

Well, I have subbed this and seem to have just joined in at the most interesting part of your grow.

Happy growing and hopefully happy smoking in the near future!


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## simisimis (Jul 14, 2013)

Kite High said:


> heat moisture stress a bit
> 
> BUT they look decent dude


Thanks bro, well they do look decent for me as well, just trying to eliminate problems at the time they appear, not like my last grow after I've lost half of foliage lol.. 
Probably it's heat stress, I doubt that 36-50% RH would cause them stress. Unless you're talking about soil moisture.. Difficult to say, I wait till the pot is easy to lift but also do not wait for it to become super light..



chemtrailsrbad said:


> Hey simisimis!
> 
> Great looking plants you have there. I have a 150w HPS sitting in the cupboard doing nothing. Was hoping in the near future to start a 12/12 grow based on Cees's grow method on the no mercy supply site. You can cram lots of plants into a small space with growing them under the right mix of fluoros on 12/12 until they show signs of sex which is usually no later than 21 days. Then they are put under the HPS, still 12/12 of course, to complete flowering. All plants must be started from seed with this method as clones need to be in veg and vegging is a no no with this method. He pulls a 1g per watt every with 7 harvests per year.
> 
> ...


Hey man, thanks for the kind words, happy you liked it  Also seeing you posting your first post on my thread, gratz on joining this community 
I'm not familiar with that method, but that's not exactly what I'm looking for. 
I'm growing only for occasional smoking, like once per 1-2 weeks. I still have some mj from my 2nd grow and now 4th is going towards the end lol. I do not sell, just tip my friends from time to time with little presents and I LOVE growing, checking every single inch of my plants for changes twice a day. So harvesting 2-3 times per year and pulling 30-40g per plant from 2 plants is more than enough for me  not mentioning the fact that my grow room is too small for those kind of methods, I wouldn't be able to get in the room hehe.. in total so far I have 150w plus 60w cfl, wanted to add 50w more, but too hot in the room, so I'll better keep the temps bellow 85F. Harvesting for me it's just a personal record which I want to go up with my every grow so I'd now that I'm making progress. now I have to beat my 0.36g/W lol.
About seeds, take into consideration buying directly from seed banks, lot of them give you lots of freebies, like when I bought 4xC99 from female seeds I received 7x C99 freebies haha.. now that is a deal, prob they work with orders after they test potency of their plants.. my friend bought from another seedbank 10x WW, he got another 10 as a present.. it's quite common thing when buying from seedbanks. 

Stick around, things are getting really interesting here 
Cheers!


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## Highocaine (Jul 14, 2013)

^ I bought 20x "Dutch Passion" WW fem from a seedbank in Canada, received 61. Then again they took forever to germ and the rate was reaaally low, so I'm glad they at least sent that many..


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## smokejoint (Jul 15, 2013)

simisimis said:


> yeah man, looks like im gonna have to do some reports then. im a bit scared of malawi lol. but im pretty sure zamal is not too far from it.. anyway with my setup i guess it wont be half trippy as with yours it would be with all uvb and such..
> *btw Kite, how's your cindies? trippy as expected? in the end which day you chose to cut it? 49? 52? do you already know how much you yielded? or you don't count your harvest in grams and oz'es?
> i'd really love to apply everything i learned on cindies hehe*, prob this will be my next run, but for now tongue is sweating for destroyer and mind is waiting for some trippy boost from zamal


..............................................


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## smokejoint (Jul 15, 2013)

Fantastic looking plants simi.


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## simisimis (Jul 15, 2013)

smokejoint said:


> ..............................................


Thanks man 

btw check this post about Kites Cindies


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## Kite High (Jul 15, 2013)

smokejoint said:


> ..............................................


Tops main colas at 49 days...trippy supreme no ceiling and sleep preventing....the bottom 2/3's of the plants are being trimmed/chopped currently...will report differences


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## simisimis (Jul 15, 2013)

Kite High said:


> Tops main colas at 49 days...trippy supreme no ceiling and sleep preventing....the bottom 2/3's of the plants are being trimmed/chopped currently...will report differences


1/3 of your grow is 480g from 4 plants... now that is insane.. you're my hero ))


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## Kite High (Jul 15, 2013)

simisimis said:


> 1/3 of your grow is 480g from 4 plants... now that is insane.. you're my hero ))


The four tops from the four plants are 377.9 trams dry 1 week in closet Lil over 1 week in cvaults. Will post the weights of the lower 2/3s once dry. it is all going to bho, hemp oil, and cannabutter. The mains are for smoking/ vsping and to share with friends.


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## simisimis (Jul 16, 2013)

oh sorry for the typo, anyway that does not make my excitement any smaller.. man now you know how to exploit your plants haha. do you cook anything specific with cannabutter or just put that on sandwiches for breakfast in the morning and on boiled potatoes in the evening? btw, which part of the plant are ropes?


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## MrEDuck (Jul 16, 2013)

Rope is made from the fibers of the stems. You're not making rope with your stems?


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## Kite High (Jul 16, 2013)

simisimis said:


> oh sorry for the typo, anyway that does not make my excitement any smaller.. man now you know how to exploit your plants haha. do you cook anything specific with cannabutter or just put that on sandwiches for breakfast in the morning and on boiled potatoes in the evening? btw, which part of the plant are ropes?


Apologies as I meant the four mains. Please know the genes are 99percent of what determines potency. You will be fine. The destroyer will keep you happy and floating along creatively and zamal will reveal you to yourself.


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## simisimis (Jul 17, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> Rope is made from the fibers of the stems. You're not making rope with your stems?


haha exactly, that's what I thought as well..



Kite High said:


> Apologies as I meant the four mains. Please know the genes are 99percent of what determines potency. You will be fine. The destroyer will keep you happy and floating along creatively and zamal will reveal you to yourself.


whoa thanks, after reading Mel Franks book I thought that potency is way more influenced by environment variables like temp. I mean not that environment will increase it, but more that it can decrease it. But I'll trust you on this. Can't wait to try destroyer then and dive into exploration of myself with zamal  

btw, zamal is doing quite nice job on stacking buds. Will make a pic after a day or two. Although I did not notice any change in 3-4 days on Destroyer.. 
Looks like it does not drop leaves anymore, it did not drop that many, just some lowest ones, still its quite bushy down there. Also noticed today Dest showed some mild signs of fan leave tips curling down. Looks the same like on Zamal a week ago. Just a few of them though located on middle part of plant. Will see if they got better today. Temps are again rising outside and the grow room has that stuffy air.. I keep my roof window open, but somehow fresh air does not come in prob because it's a roof window in a corner room. humidity is 48%, temps are 83-88F on tops, 80-85 at the bottom..


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## simisimis (Jul 24, 2013)

Been few days since I posted something. Well today I tried to use magnifying glass on my girls and I got really surprised.. Trichs both on destroyer and zamal were cloudy. 
10 and a half weeks now.
I don't know if that's possible that Zamal or destroyer could be ready. Destroyer have some nice calyxes, but I'm still not experienced if those are swollen. Capitate-stalked glands look swollen to me. And also look cloudy. Zamaldelica had very small calyxes, like 1/3rd of the size comparing to Destroyer. She had to flower longer than Destroyer but Zamaldelica is even more cloudy. Resin glands are shorter but fatter.
Last 6-7 days was disaster for them, temps inside raised to 95 at some point, but it was more or less 87-90 on those days. Although plants did not show any leaf tip bending or any other stress signs. 

I was hoping that Destroyer will do way more progress in packing colas, but over a week ago it just stopped doing anything, looks almost the same as it looked 9 days before.. Zamaldelica also did not show a lot of change for 7 days already. Buds are more packed but a lot smaller than Dest. During grow I lost some bottom leaves, but not even worth counting, cause most of them are green and healthy.
Now the question is what to do. I kind of think the answer is pretty obvious, cloudy and swollen capitate stalked resin glands, on destroyer I even found like 2 or 3 amber trichs. Well I thought I have those plants, I thought I was getting there but it looks like I will not make even oz per plant.. And for the height, I still have like a spare foot of it.. But hey, c'mon, somebody even said that this is preposterous and that I won't be able to grow these strains  
Guys have a look at the pictures and tell me what ya think. How plants look like, how much height I still got, and some zoom in on buds and resin.. 

Destroyer:

Dest x45 zoom

Destroyer x60+ zoom


Zamal:


Zamaldelica x60+ zoom


Reflector is almost at the highest position.


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## Kite High (Jul 25, 2013)

The heat clouded them. Wait for swollen calyxes and receding pistols before checking trichs. IMO neither are close to ready.


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## simisimis (Jul 25, 2013)

yeah, it did not feel that it is ready for me as well, I just did not know how to explain that resin started to go cloudy.. cause destroyer still have quite a lot of white pistils and her colas are sooo airy... Zamal also has some tiny nugs.. And both look that they could support much more... will try to do my best on reducing the heat, but I cannot think of what else I could do other than to get ac unit.. and that is a bit nono go for me at the moment..


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## simisimis (Jul 25, 2013)

BTW thanks Kite for comments and staying with me on this


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## NietzscheKeen (Jul 25, 2013)

Kite High said:


> The heat clouded them. Wait for swollen calyxes and receding pistols before checking trichs. IMO neither are close to ready.


Is THAT what clouds those suckers?! I harvested some before in the middle of summer that were all cloudy. I checked later to separate my buds into different piles "mostly clear" and "mostly cloudy" and they were all friggin clear! I always thought it was the sun making things cloudy, so I began taking a little sample and inspecting it inside.


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## simisimis (Jul 25, 2013)

actually growing outside you get more environmental factors that causes resin degradation go faster, like UV, so harvesting window is determined differently from indoors, but i did not think that heat indoors could induce that as well.. u grow and u learn...


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## silasraven (Jul 25, 2013)

thanks for the grow, i love sativa but because of what the strain looks like, id have to stay away from these sativas. the bud just isnt thick enough for 3 and a half months of lights.


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## simisimis (Jul 25, 2013)

silasraven said:


> thanks for the grow, i love sativa but because of what the strain looks like, id have to stay away from these sativas. the bud just isnt thick enough for 3 and a half months of lights.


to which strain are you reffering? cause Destroyer has pretty decent stems to support it's colas, Zamal stretched a lot, but when you LST that much as I do, you get lots of side shoots which in the end causes a lot tall and lanky stems all stretching for the light. Besides I have only 150W of CMH hid plus 2x25W cfl, so to judge the strain itself I believe you need to check grow journals of at least 400W hid garden with bigger space than 2.4' in height and with proper temps. Not mentioning the fact that I stunned with LST and overfed her few times... I'm a big newbie here, don't want to be taken as example 

Besides on my last grow, C'99 was also extremely stretchy with super thin stems and when I compare to other people, they manage to grow something wayyy different comparing to what I get


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## simisimis (Jul 26, 2013)

guys, what kind of deficiency it is when on the leaves some wilted spots appear? here are the pics? Looks like P to me..


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## sadface (Jul 26, 2013)

I am a noob so take anything I say with grain of salt. But I agree with your diagnosis. below is a link that convinced me, pic looked almost exactly like yours. 

http://www.autoflowering-cannabis.com/cannabis-and-phosphorus.html



good eye man 

edit: i know the link is for auto flowers, and you are not growing them. but the pic looked the closeted to yours.


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## lilroach (Jul 26, 2013)

It's a Phosphorus deficiency. I usually see it as the plant starts showing buds. While these leaves will stay this way, if you use phosphorus-rich nutes, you'll not see any new browning of your leaves.


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## Lady Helena (Jul 27, 2013)

kushhound187 said:


> I top but never lst. im not that adventurous.i tried scrog. not for me. i try abd be as natural as possibke.
> 
> go kite tho, you are right. tecnicaly its doable. i just think the results would be shakey for such a new grower. im not new to growing, but never tried lst. im scared to try unless someone shows me hands on. Otherwise i stick to what i know.
> 
> small sativa hybrids are best for this style of grow. to be honest tho, i wouldnt even touch a 150. smallest i would consider is 250, and i would only contemplate such a thing if i had just got outta the can and all my shit was siezed. other than that, i would never step away feom my 1000 switchable dimms. cant beat em


Don't be such a big scaredy-cat! What's to be scared of? I have just grown my very first plant (only one as 2 others were males), it's a big ass sativa (as you say) that is tiny as I LST'd the shit out of her. I'm about to harvest and she has loads of nice buds. And she's only been under CFLs (6 x 30w and a T5). Just give it a go, it's easy.


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## simisimis (Jul 29, 2013)

well those wilting spots made me think that it's a lack of P. Cause my biogrow bottle has like NPK 3-0-8 if graded according to US standards. So you'd think that there's no P and problem solved, BUT the same product in EU is graded NPK:4-3-6. So there must be P in this bottle, just not directly available.. 
But I do not really think that I have P deficiency. Maybe it's a lockout from Ca excess? Since my water should have plenty of it and also I am supplementing with camg boost. Does any other micro or macro cause P lockout? I thought that one way to approach this problem is to do one or two waterings with my biobloom, which has NPK:1-2-2 US (2-7-4 EU). 
The reason I think it was a lock out, cause a day before wilted leaf spots I increased grow nutes. And even with increased N in soil I got also N deficiency. Must be K excess, cause I get K from potassium silicate(NPK:0-0-9.5) and biogrow(3-0-. And I'm pretty sure my liquid seaweed contains some of potassium as well. 

About the grow, don't know, I do not see many changes in the garden. Not only it's not growing any bigger(at least I do not notice any grow), plants are also drinking way less water.. I watered Destroyer this morning(monday), last time I watered was tuesday evening. so 5 and a half days and it used to drink every 2.5-3 days. Zamal as well is being watered every 4-4.5 days instead of 2.5-3 days. 

Destroyer almost does not have white stigmas. Almost all of them look brownish. Zamal is also looking brownish, still have some white ones(~40%), but those are very small, but zamal calyxes are also tiny, so looks like plant's keeping proportions.. I'll try to make some pics with the lighter or something to compare sizes. 

Another thing is that I will be traveling abroad on 8th of august for almost two weeks and to leave my girls for that long to somebody would be too risky.. So I'm thinking that maybe it's a time to harvest it in a week or so..
Maybe I should pinch some samples and checkout the high of it. 
I read that people dry samples in the oven or in microwave, what would you recommend? I could also pinch and wait for 4-5 days to dry and only then try it.

Ahhh as always wanted to drop a line or two and it turned out into philosophical essay with observations and inexperienced reasoning...

btw Kite, I finally understood what you mean "cartoons on the wall trippy" ))) I made some chocolate cookies, cannabutter from 120g of butter, 2g of C'99. I got like 16 cookies. so I ate two of them. And after 2 hours it kicked in, lol I was looking at a painting and was experiencing incredible trip inside of that painting frame.. How can you not love this strain...


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## MrEDuck (Jul 29, 2013)

The oven seems to work better than the microwave for quick drying.
I wish a batch of cookies made with 2g of bud could do anything to me.


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## Kite High (Jul 29, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> The oven seems to work better than the microwave for quick drying.
> I wish a batch of cookies made with 2g of bud could do anything to me.


LMAO! Me too!


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## MrEDuck (Jul 29, 2013)

That's about how much was in the single cookie I ate last night. My wife had one and was asleep in half an hour.


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## simisimis (Jul 29, 2013)

well dunno, maybe I'm making it wrong, I grind it and throw it in the butter and heat it while stirring for 10min, then put that in the fridge for two hours and then melt it again, filter it and make cookies. But it always takes 1,5-2hours to kick in, from C99 I do not want to sleep, still keeps me awake and giggly, a bit trippy, but few days ago after 2+ hours I got some real nice visuals, I was WOW'ing for few hours lol.. but yeah, for a stoner like me, I really do not need more than 2g per 120g of butter.. and half of batch I eat in a month or so lol.. half goes to even less experienced friends haha.. 

I just took two samples, Destroyer is being cooked in an oven at the smallest level with a gap for the heat to go out, hopefully will be ready within an hour. I placed a sample of zamal onto ballast so I could try it tomorrow.. Dest has very nice calyxes, zamal same but 3 times smaller.. 

But yeah, they do not look like they're ready for chopping, very little resin on them comparing to my previous grows.. This morning I watered Destroyer with biobloom (1-2-2) and in the evening I noticed some increase in resin production, a sec ago before the lights go off I watered zamal as well, giving 2ml of biobloom(1-2-2) and 1.5ml of biogrow(3-0-. Total ppm with potassium silicate and camg and seaweed was like 1000ppm(hana scale). 
It's funny, my tap water has like 280-300ppm, but if I dip my tester into liquid seaweed - it has 330ppm.. I wonder how much of actual thing is in that bottle, but it seems like not that much... Or is it just another snake oil company product.. GK Organics btw..


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## Kite High (Jul 29, 2013)




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## simisimis (Jul 31, 2013)

Hey guys. Here's another photo update.
Well looks like something promoted new stigmas growth. Not sure whether that was room temp which dropped to 79-84F or the 1-2-2 food. well probably I will see that tomorrow cause upcoming 2-3 days are planning to be the hottest we had so far. like 91F outside, so under the lamp which is under the roof might get crazy...
here's some pics. Tried to take some pics with BIC lighter net to them, but was in a hurry so does not look that good. Also got some closeup of Dest calyxes. 
Yesterday I tried Zamal sample, well... was very uplifting absolutely clear headed buzz, quite similar to C99 but missing the trippyness, but I took only one puff, was afraid to get too high, and the effect went away after about an hour or two. But yeagh.. So either those nugs are far from being ready or I had to toke at least couple of puffs.
Anyway, here are some pics.
Destroyer:


Zamal:


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## MrEDuck (Jul 31, 2013)

They both look like they're getting there. How old are they from seed?


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## simisimis (Jul 31, 2013)

yeah, looks like they started doing some packing, hopefully will not stop for another week. they are 86days from seed, 81 day 12/12. The only thing I am afraid, in 8 days I will be flying away for 12days.. and I still do not have anybody to look after my cats, but I doubt that that somebody would be capable of feeding them.. and I am thinking whether it's better to risk or cut down earlier. Also I want to let them grow longer, but if I would cut them before leaving, they would be drying for 12 days... it takes 7 days usually to dry here.. what would be consequences of leaving them dry for 12 days?


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## MrEDuck (Jul 31, 2013)

So they showed preflowers around what 8 or 9 weeks ago? So three weeks from now would still be ok to chop them I'd think. Sativas have long harvest windows. I know it's not ideal but could you even get someone to just water them? Far from ideal but better than chopping early.


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## simisimis (Jul 31, 2013)

hmm... destroyer showed her first stigmas on 19th day into flower, so almost 9 weeks ago(62days). 

can't find in history about Zamal, but I think it was 2 weeks later... well if only watering without nutes I believe that will not be a problem... mixing for bottles and reading the plants is what I'm afraid of.. but if I will stop feeding them on 8th of august, I will find them yellow without leaves when I'll gdet back... but I guess that is better than cutting earlier.. hm.. still need to overthink this. If I would know if plants are planning to continue on building buds, or will start degrading, would be easier to come up with solution..


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## smokeytokeybear (Jul 31, 2013)

she looks.really good


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## MrEDuck (Jul 31, 2013)

Lots of people let their plants go the last two weeks on water alone and they're usually far less healthy that your plants are currently when they start the process. I'd guess that both should be fine, destroyer might be a little past peak but better than she would be now and Zamal should be just fine.


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## Kite High (Jul 31, 2013)

Note to self...
Self, c99 hemp cure oil even when buds are harvested late at 66 days is gonna make you TRIP FUCKING BALLS!!

Self,that is all


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## MrEDuck (Jul 31, 2013)

How much oil are you eating brother?


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## Kite High (Jul 31, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> How much oil are you eating brother?


was just the tip of my pinky dipped in it while warm then licked....motherfucking potent!!!


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## simisimis (Jul 31, 2013)

Kite High said:


> Note to self...
> Self, c99 hemp cure oil even when buds are harvested late at 66 days is gonna make you TRIP FUCKING BALLS!!
> 
> Self,that is all


lol had to re-read your post quite a few times till I got what ur trying to say ))

Kite, did you do only two part harvest like 49th day and 66th or you cut some of it somewhere in between those days? 

Good to know that on day 66 there's still green light for the trippyness  any signs of it being less uplifting/energetic?


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## Kite High (Jul 31, 2013)

simisimis said:


> lol had to re-read your post quite a few times till I got what ur trying to say ))
> 
> Kite, did you do only two part harvest like 49th day and 66th or you cut some of it somewhere in between those days?
> 
> Good to know that on day 66 there's still green light for the trippyness  any signs of it being less uplifting/energetic?


bear in mind we are speaking of hash oil made from the 66 day c99....the flowers are barely if any trippy...but the oil Dammit Son!


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## simisimis (Jul 31, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> Lots of people let their plants go the last two weeks on water alone and they're usually far less healthy that your plants are currently when they start the process. I'd guess that both should be fine, destroyer might be a little past peak but better than she would be now and Zamal should be just fine.


yeah that's true... I did that myself on my first grow, but just because I was a victim of those forum hypes, how not feeding last 2 weeks cleans the buds better, how you can enjoy autumn like 4-5 times per year just by cutting down the N source and watching leafs fall.. lol.. 
Anyway decided to grow and get somebody to water them.. will see which one of my friends will be willing to take the challenge, who knows maybe he/she's going even to add some nutes.. 
we'll see soon enough


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## MrEDuck (Jul 31, 2013)

He chopped in a few stages, 49 days for the flowers, then a little later for lowers and even later for making cure oil because he needs to consume a lot of it and that much Cindy could be overwhelming even for an experienced tripper like Kite.


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## simisimis (Jul 31, 2013)

Kite High said:


> bear in mind we are speaking of hash oil made from the 66 day c99....the flowers are barely if any trippy...but the oil Dammit Son!


ohhh.. lol almost tricked myself with fast reading.. hm, then 49-52 harvest window stays. I was also wondering, if I'd cut C99 like on a day 40 or 42, is it safe to think that it would be less trippy, less potent and not sleepy at all. The reason I'm thinking about this, cause my wife finds C99 at day 52 too strong for her, so I'd like to make something milder but still uplifting energetic clear head buzz.


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## Kite High (Jul 31, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> He chopped in a few stages, 49 days for the flowers, then a little later for lowers and even later for making cure oil because he needs to consume a lot of it and that much Cindy could be overwhelming even for an experienced tripper like Kite.


well lil bro yep we gonna have to ease on in there cause just wasnt functional in a practical useful way and I cant stay that way...really loving it though...the colors flashes from the soundwaves earlier was intense


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## Kite High (Jul 31, 2013)

simisimis said:


> ohhh.. lol almost tricked myself with fast reading.. hm, then 49-52 harvest window stays. I was also wondering, if I'd cut C99 like on a day 40 or 42, is it safe to think that it would be less trippy, less potent and not sleepy at all. The reason I'm thinking about this, cause my wife finds C99 at day 52 too strong for her, so I'd like to make something milder but still uplifting energetic clear head buzz.


let it go longer by like a week and that should be what you want...potent without the egde


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## simisimis (Jul 31, 2013)

brilliant, thanks! 
Well I probably need to find a way to get the trippyness out of those awesome strains. I get all the effects, but something usually stops me from getting deeper. I suspect that I am not taking enough of it. 1g for me alone lasts like 12-15 days if I would be smoking once a day. But if I double the thing, then it feels like my chest will explode, such an energetic boost... so if I toke like two times, then it's better sit down, cause once I start moving, ceiling goes under my feet and floor - above the head from time to time  very disorienting.. lol.. items even start looking 4 dimensional, like hypercube:

hmm... wait... maybe it is fucking tripping my balls off


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## simisimis (Jul 31, 2013)

oh and btw, M. C. Escher must have been smoking Cindy when he was drawing all his paintings, cause they make me trip without even smoking anything, with cindy for me it's mind blowing hehe. 
Can't wait to see how Zamal and Dest will treat me.. not that much time left hehe


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## Fenian Brotherhood (Aug 1, 2013)

Hope you pull a good harvest man. I see your Location is Northern Lights lol. Fuckin stoner..

Any chance you're thinking of getting another 150 for flowering? And letting loose those cfls?
Hope all is High bro


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## Kite High (Aug 1, 2013)

Fenian Brotherhood said:


> Hope you pull a good harvest man. I see your Location is Northern Lights lol. Fuckin stoner..
> 
> Any chance you're thinking of getting another 150 for flowering? And letting loose those cfls?
> Hope all is High bro


ummm NL stands for the Netherlands....STONER


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## MrEDuck (Aug 1, 2013)

I hear sometime they like to smoke their NL while watching their Nl in the NL


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## Chronic Masterbator (Aug 1, 2013)

sadface said:


> subbed! curious how a 12/12 from seed grow does on sativas


Me too that is basically the light schedule outdoors here.


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## Chronic Masterbator (Aug 1, 2013)

Sim Yer gonna pull on this one. Trial and error lad


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## simisimis (Aug 2, 2013)

Fenian Brotherhood said:


> Hope you pull a good harvest man. I see your Location is Northern Lights lol. Fuckin stoner..
> 
> Any chance you're thinking of getting another 150 for flowering? And letting loose those cfls?
> Hope all is High bro


it's all high here, thanks  but naaahhh I barely handle the heat of 150W cmh, don't have enough space either, will stick to my 2 plants per grow thing 


Chronic Masterbator said:


> Sim Yer gonna pull on this one. Trial and error lad


hell yeah, I love how every new grow I have some new understanding of how the mechanics work, having problems and dealing with them and having you guys around in my thread to keep me on a right track, brilliant.

yesterday I harvested like four tops of zamal for my wife, not much, prob will get like 3-4 grams from it. Wanted the pot to be less potent cause it's always too strong for her  anyway I doubt that she will find it weak enough, that strain appears to be potent as advertised, after I tried a bit of ballast dried sample I felt that to be ballz tickling and mind and body racing. For the trippy effect prob will have to dry/cure in a normal way 

And while I was complaining that buds aren't filling in, well.. I was wrong. You watch them everyday and one day you realize they actually did some nice job in packing their buds.. Not that much as I expected, but way more than I need so the grower's happy!


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## simisimis (Aug 5, 2013)

Good morning everybody!


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## Kite High (Aug 5, 2013)

How far along? Looking great bro


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## simisimis (Aug 5, 2013)

well had a very hot weekend, but zamal is gaining weight, also Dest visually is not expanding, but I've noticed branches started to fall from weight... tied them today. Also Dest has very nice calyxes although buds are quite airy, Zamal however has very small calyxes, but buds are really tightly packed... Anyway looks way more beautiful than a week ago... it's just that I see that person who will be taking care of my cats (or few persons) I cannot trust with watering.. Not even with plain water, so I might have to cut the plants on wednesday... so in two days.. argh.. such a pain, but really getting back here and seeing plants wilted lieing on the ground is something I wish not to experience... will have my final thoughts tonight. Does total darkness for 48 before harvest do any good to resin production or it has to be at least 72? cause this evening will be 48hours left, I could also like wake up on thursday morning and then do the harvest, so that would be around 60hours... damn a bit annoying that I have nobody to take care of my girls for that long, but oh well.. sometimes unconvenient things happen in life, we just need to go along..


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 5, 2013)

subbed for the harvest.


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## Kite High (Aug 5, 2013)

simisimis said:


> well had a very hot weekend, but zamal is gaining weight, also Dest visually is not expanding, but I've noticed branches started to fall from weight... tied them today. Also Dest has very nice calyxes although buds are quite airy, Zamal however has very small calyxes, but buds are really tightly packed... Anyway looks way more beautiful than a week ago... it's just that I see that person who will be taking care of my cats (or few persons) I cannot trust with watering.. Not even with plain water, so I might have to cut the plants on wednesday... so in two days.. argh.. such a pain, but really getting back here and seeing plants wilted lieing on the ground is something I wish not to experience... will have my final thoughts tonight. Does total darkness for 48 before harvest do any good to resin production or it has to be at least 72? cause this evening will be 48hours left, I could also like wake up on thursday morning and then do the harvest, so that would be around 60hours... damn a bit annoying that I have nobody to take care of my girls for that long, but oh well.. sometimes unconvenient things happen in life, we just need to go along..


72 hours demonstrated the optimal results. But how are you thinking they are done! I do not think they are done. Not even close to it. If


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## Kite High (Aug 5, 2013)

Flaming Pie said:


> subbed for the harvest.


How is the little up cuocake pie?


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## simisimis (Aug 5, 2013)

Kite High said:


> 72 hours demonstrated the optimal results. But how are you thinking they are done! I do not think they are done. Not even close to it. If


i know man... i really dunno what to do... that girl will be comming every other day, she'll be watering with plain water at best, but if she won't be able to come, or will forget or somth.. im putting a lot of risk on her. her... im not even sure who is going to take care of it... it will be 2-3 people in 12 days.. will be a mess big time... i will try to do my best planning to keep the plant, but it can be last minute call to harvest..


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## MrEDuck (Aug 5, 2013)

I still think the chance of fucking things up is greater leaving the weed drying.


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## simisimis (Aug 5, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> I still think the chance of fucking things up is greater leaving the weed drying.


hehe, yeah.. that's another thing... hanging plants for 12 days when they usually dry in 5-6 days with the humidity I have(36-44%).. damn... I need to think differently... Like, buy some 2 liter bottles and premix them with nutes, mark days on them etc. A feeding without potassium silicate(cause last time I had problems, after 1-2 days, there were quite a lot precipitate.. without silica I didn't notice any of that within 5 days..) Also I have like 3x 5feet tall tomatoes living in 1-3gal mediums, those are drinking every 12 hours lol... but I already made my peace with them.



Flaming Pie said:


> subbed for the harvest.


welcome aboard dear harvest hunter haha, will try my best to entertain you!


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## Chronic Masterbator (Aug 5, 2013)

Good idea leaving premixed nutes. But I would mix lower than usual to be safe. I might even go as far as suggest leaving water premixed with molasses only. If your worried about watering when your gone. Why not leave over sized drip trays. Fill with water the plants should drink what they need. Only plants that are seedlings or young I'd be worried. Good luck buddy doing great for 150 watts.


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## simisimis (Aug 6, 2013)

Chronic Masterbator said:


> Good idea leaving premixed nutes. But I would mix lower than usual to be safe. I might even go as far as suggest leaving water premixed with molasses only. If your worried about watering when your gone. Why not leave over sized drip trays. Fill with water the plants should drink what they need. Only plants that are seedlings or young I'd be worried. Good luck buddy doing great for 150 watts.


Well I do not really have any material I could use for trays and I'm not sure how it's done, do you mean just dipping plants into tray filled with water? I think that would be too much even for grown up plant, roots would stay in a water all the time, soil would be soaked.. or maybe I am not following you.. prob had to think earlier about this, thanks for suggestion though, maybe will see that as opportunity on my next vacation 

Now guys,
Did you really think that I'm gonna throw in some blurred pic and call it a journal post? no no no.. 
Today is 12 weeks and 4 days into flowering. I was surprised how Dest improved in pas week, looking way more frosty, healthy green, and colas expanded quite a bit. How could I cut that girl when she's trying to gain some weight for me... Zamal too looking nice, frosty, just calyxes are so tiny haha, I added one pic with my nail to compare the size of them  Zamal is showing some deficiencies, next watering will reduce 1-2-2 food by one mil and increase grow 3-0-8 food by 1ml per L. in total I'm giving like 4 ml of combo bloom+grow. Plants seem to like it more that way rather than only grow or only bloom. ppm of Zamal water with nutes is ~1150ppm, Dest - ~1000ppm.

Ok here's some pics. Did not realize that Dest panoramic pic was so blurry at the time I took it, but I'm dropping it in anyway, so you could visualize the plant better. Enjoy.

Destroyer.



Zamaldelica


EDIT: btw, 3 days ago was 1 year when I sprouted my first seed!


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## MrEDuck (Aug 6, 2013)

They are looking nice. Happy first growing birthday!


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## hopeyougotadutch (Aug 18, 2013)

Nice job sim, you should be proud. Can't wait to see the update when you get back bro. 

I see molasses was mentioned and is it worthwhile? Been hearing about it for years but does it mainly benefit mycos? Or...?


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## OGEvilgenius (Aug 19, 2013)

Did it all work out for you?


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## simisimis (Aug 21, 2013)

hopeyougotadutch said:


> Nice job sim, you should be proud. Can't wait to see the update when you get back bro.
> 
> I see molasses was mentioned and is it worthwhile? Been hearing about it for years but does it mainly benefit mycos? Or...?


Hey man, umm not sure about molasses. What I am using are: Biobizz biogrow, Biobizz biobloom, Potsil.com potassium silicate, GK organics liquid seaweed, Aptus camg-boost. Not sure if seaweed is giving any benefit, but maybe it does 
About being proud.. Well I can't complain man, thanks, not the best I could have achieved but not the worst case either 



OGEvilgenius said:


> Did it all work out for you?


it is still in progress man 

ok so here's update. 
learned new tricks on the windsurfing board, took my bike out of garage, been swimming and surfing most of the time... what a life... well holidays are over and had to come back. I was seriously hoping to find all my plants with yellow leaves lol, but to my surprise everything went jut fine! The only problem was overwatering, since two friends came to take care of the plants one day. Both of them watered with the amount I asked them to water.. Destroyer looks ok, but Zamal is showing some overwatering stress. But not that bad, since they did that only one day. 

Jesus people! thank you for not letting me cut those plants. 
That time when I was away, temps went down to around 80 and plants made some nice packing. Destroyer made some funny calyxes chimneys on some of its colas. Zamal made some very nice improvement. Still I was checking them today and they were looking like they still need to flower for 1-3 weeks. You can see in pics that both destroyer and zamal has quite some white pistils on them. Although on few destroyer colas stigmas already receded.

Anyway, here are some pics. Let me know what you think.
If there is something you would like me to concentrate on while taking pics, please comment.
Cheers!

Destroyer:


These are the calyx chimneys  ..and white stigmas


this one is quite brown.



Zamaldelica:

panoramic view and overwatering stress and lack of N I believe..




Nicely packed buds with white stigmas...
 

Today it's 14 weeks and 2 days - IOW day 100! 
tried to find any amber trichs however unsuccessfully. 

So what you guys think, looks like plants would like to continue on growing to me.. but 14 weeks alr.. 

EDIT: oh yeah, another thing worth mentioning.. Zamal colas became so heavy that stems do not hold them anymore... kind of having problems supporting them...


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## MrEDuck (Aug 21, 2013)

They look great! Most people can't keep a plant healthy for that long even when they are taking care of it! Pure sats are known for looking like they're almost there for weeks! And they always foxtail like that. 
I'm asking Santa for some of Ace's Panama for xmas.


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## diet coke (Aug 21, 2013)

chop them there done, Get next crop going


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## Jar Man (Aug 21, 2013)

Cooler nightime temps and letting 'em dry out considerably is the secret, particularly for most sativas. Typically go about a week beyond what they call for in the online strain reviews. From the last pics I'd wait about another week till they till they begin to look over ripe, w/ almost all the red stigmas gone or fully receded. And virtually no white/cream ones at all. I don't know how many times I'seen buds that most would swear are done that shrink when dry to reveal they're still a tad immature. Sativas are more prone to this than Indicas by far.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 21, 2013)

That Zameldica looks SEXY !!!


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## beuffer420 (Aug 21, 2013)

Flaming Pie said:


> That Zameldica looks SEXY !!!



A very nice show to say the least!


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## simisimis (Aug 21, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> They look great! Most people can't keep a plant healthy for that long even when they are taking care of it! Pure sats are known for looking like they're almost there for weeks! And they always foxtail like that.
> I'm asking Santa for some of Ace's Panama for xmas.


Hey man, yeah I know what you mean, even when I felt that confident and thought I know what I'm doing felt like doing a slacklining, constantly trying to keep balance lol.. About foxtailing I've always seen people writing that but never had it myself and was imagining totally different thing  Thought fox tail is bud leaves that curl, not the calyxes that build the line  you live and you learn haha.. I wonder if foxtailing is showing any signs of finish or it just happens in a process.. 



diet coke said:


> chop them there done, Get next crop going


Well I am really not sure if they're done.. After the temps dropped looks like they are having flower period they never had... few weeks ago stigmas were almost all brown, now half of them are white.. and other signs like faster packing progress etc.. Would like more people to help me decide on this 
About the next crop... Thinking of making a 1-2 months break... My 4th grow is almost finished and I only recently finished smoking my 2nd harvest haha..

thanks guys for the input!


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## lospsi (Aug 21, 2013)

wow nice plants mate i have never heard of topping ant training combo in a 12/12 grow these sativas are too sexy, Damn


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## hopeyougotadutch (Aug 21, 2013)

Damn dude, they are awesome. 


Na, don't take a break, better solution, smoke more.


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## MrEDuck (Aug 21, 2013)

I've never in my life thought I had too much weed.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Aug 21, 2013)

wowzers they look really good, zamal looks so damn yummy GRADE AAA smoke!!


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## simisimis (Aug 22, 2013)

lospsi said:


> wow nice plants mate i have never heard of topping ant training combo in a 12/12 grow these sativas are too sexy, Damn


yeah I've always read that topping has to be done 1 week before switching to flower, well, if talking about maximizing the yield maybe, but in my case I was looking for the quality not the quantity and needed a plant to be as low as possible and this method made it possible 



hopeyougotadutch said:


> Damn dude, they are awesome.
> 
> 
> Na, don't take a break, better solution, smoke more.


lol man, there's too many evenings when I need to concentrate and with weed that is sometimes a difficult thing to achieve.
And not that I started cooking Cindy cookies, OMG, now I actually know what the word trippy means.. And Zamal is supposed to be way stronger... so I doubt that I will be consuming that very fast. With a 100g I could last probably a year.and now before the harvest I have like 70g in my stash. If after this harvest I'll have something like 140g, growing for more would be...

hm I just counted how much electricity I consume per month. hah it's $22. I was afraid it's more like 40$. Well if it's only $60 per grow,* so fck it, I'll continue growing * 

I was looking to the plants more closely today, Destroyer in the begining was making very decent stems, forming short and strong and exploded with stigmas two weeks earlier than Zamaldelica, but not in the end it feels like colas are shrinking lol.. It has quite a lot of foliage between buds, way more than zamal. Probably it feels like it's shrinking because not only tops started to foxtail, most of the budsites, thus when you look at the cola, visually it is airy and with a lot of leaves.. Both plants have quite a big mass on stems, I am tying them so they would not fall..

But I've noticed a lot of places of newly developing calyxes, I really think I should give them 1-3 weeks but then again, maybe not? This is where lots of opinions of readers should kick in I guess )))


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## Kite High (Aug 22, 2013)

At least 2-3 more weeks easily patience


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## simisimis (Aug 23, 2013)

Kite High said:


> At least 2-3 more weeks easily patience


hehe you calmed me down, thanks 
Now I'm patient, since all the stress with vacation is over, I do not really care whether it will take 1 or 4 weeks for them to finish. I'm so glad I did not cut them down before leaving, thanks to you guys.

On destroyer ~7 colas are still showing quite a lot of new forming calyxes, however 2 colas looks like they are completely done with brown receded stigmas and everything swollen. Can it be that two tops finished earlier than the others?

I've noticed that when I harvested 4 tops from zamal ~4weeks ago for my wife, the lower part of half harvested stems packed almost as much as I harvested.. nice.. 

Waiting for the plants to dry out a bit, friends gave double watering for them on saturday and still this morning(after 6 days) it was too early to water them.. I guess watering stress slowed production.

ok, enough observation details for today,
cheers!


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## MrEDuck (Aug 23, 2013)

Tops often mature faster than the lower buds.


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## simisimis (Aug 23, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> Tops often mature faster than the lower buds.


Yeah, that was what I have experienced on my previous grow with a two part harvest on Super Lemon Haze, however it still surprises me haha  

But what bothers me is those two tops on Dest that look completely done, except for the very lower part, while other 7 tops are still showing new growth everywhere, so I was thinking that maybe I should partly cut those two branches, so lower part could start packing up already.. but maybe cutting those two branches would cause some stress and wouldn't do any good.. 
ah.. perhaps it's better just grab a cookie, sit down and wait patiently


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## hopeyougotadutch (Aug 23, 2013)

simisimis said:


> * so fck it, I'll continue growing * )))


.....


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## simisimis (Aug 24, 2013)

Hey guys, I got a question for you. 
How do you solve grow medium soil compact problem? Since I planted my girls soil pushed down like 20-25%.. I guess not only it leaves less space for roots but also pushes a lot of oxygen away. Zamal is constantly showing overwatering stress even though it is usually watered properly.. I wait for the soil to dry etc so I though that maybe I should do something to make that squeezed soil more fluffy.. 
Or it's just a part of a process and nobody does anything regarding this?


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## MrEDuck (Aug 24, 2013)

I use a fuckton of perlite in my medium. Not really sure what you can do with it once you have roots in the medium.


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## simisimis (Aug 24, 2013)

maybe it's worth to give a try to water with a bit of hydroperoxide?

since i do not do my own mix, soil is brick packed with roots now and it's impossible to stick a finger half inch.. water sinks rather quick when i water so maybe it's not the end of the world, but being that tight I'm pretty sure plants does not feel real happy..


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## MrEDuck (Aug 24, 2013)

Peroxide will help. Sorry I was distracted earlier and didn't think of it. 1/3rd of a cup/gal of 3% or about 1.25-2mL/L of the concentrate.


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## lospsi (Aug 24, 2013)

post some bud porn mate, your girls are beautiful, i am also on the sativa side i like the uplifting energetic-psychedelic high + rep


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## simisimis (Aug 25, 2013)

lospsi said:


> post some bud porn mate, your girls are beautiful, i am also on the sativa side i like the uplifting energetic-psychedelic high + rep


hehe be my guest for some delicate half naked bud nudity public demonstration..

So today I took a glass to zoom on them and I think that Destroyer days are actually over.. Those colas with receded stigmas I was talking in previous posts, has already quite a lot of amber resin glands.
Those colas which still show some growth, has less amber, but still like 10-15%. Also I was checking from calyxes, not from bud leaves or somth. Zamaldelica lower leaves are showing stress, prob overwatering or oxygen stress, but upper part is doing real nice, it is still showing some growth, resin glands are cloudy, but almost no amber. 
pics.. 

Dest


Zamal



So I'm thinking about flooding destroyer and putting it in the dark for the next 4 days. As Kite was suggesting in his post

Although I do not want to interfere with Zamal initiative behavior. Here are some more pics.
Destroyer:






































Zamal:


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## lospsi (Aug 26, 2013)

plants are wicked bro, checked in ace seeds and didn't find destroyer anywhere.. i got a little scared with zamal stretching so much, she seems double in size. I bet you get at least 4 oz from these maybe 5 gl


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## simisimis (Aug 26, 2013)

lospsi said:


> plants are wicked bro, checked in ace seeds and didn't find destroyer anywhere.. i got a little scared with zamal stretching so much, she seems double in size. I bet you get at least 4 oz from these maybe 5 gl


cause it's not from ace seeds, it's cannabiogen. Kite High recommended me Destroyer and Panama from cannabiogen and Malawi, golden tiger and Zamaldelica from Ace seeds. Well Zamal was really stretchy, but as you see I managed to keep her 1.5foot long. Topping and training in flowering plus some unbalanced feeding causing N excess and overwatering/heat (or something else that caused leaves cupping) will reduce my yield for sure, but I will get 10 times more than I need, so I do not worry that much about the loss, but 4-5oz... naaahhh... those are just big pictures, not the plants  I am expecting something about 2-3oz total from both plants. Dest has a lot of foliage that will be trimmed. Anyway, do not want to be guessing too much before harvest..

Even if those plants were really fun to grow, can't wait on getting back to C99 to apply my new gained experience  4 weeks veg, 7weeks flower, uplifting, trippy as hell and the smell... I guess none of police dogs would ever stop me when carrying it lol at the airport..


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## simisimis (Aug 27, 2013)

morning guys, hope you're doing good. Plants are doing ok/ Today I watered zamal with some hydroperoxide, will see if that will solve leave cupping.

Just a quick question. How do I make C99 half the strength she has? I want to grow some for my wife, cause everything she touches is too strong for her. She ate like half a cookie and does not touch space cookies anymore, cause it was too intensive for her. Maybe there's a different strain that has similar phenos but lower thc content, or should I keep C99 longer/shorter than the harvest day? Probably trippy effect is not a priority for her, just light uplifting high that would make her giggle with friends. 

to reduce potency of the yields.. not very common question I guess )) anyway "smoke more to get use to it" is not an answer


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## lospsi (Aug 27, 2013)

simisimis said:


> cause it's not from ace seeds, it's cannabiogen. Kite High recommended me Destroyer and Panama from cannabiogen and Malawi, golden tiger and Zamaldelica from Ace seeds. Well Zamal was really stretchy, but as you see I managed to keep her 1.5foot long. Topping and training in flowering plus some unbalanced feeding causing N excess and overwatering/heat (or something else that caused leaves cupping) will reduce my yield for sure, but I will get 10 times more than I need, so I do not worry that much about the loss, but 4-5oz... naaahhh... those are just big pictures, not the plants  I am expecting something about 2-3oz total from both plants. Dest has a lot of foliage that will be trimmed. Anyway, do not want to be guessing too much before harvest..
> 
> Even if those plants were really fun to grow, can't wait on getting back to C99 to apply my new gained experience  4 weeks veg, 7weeks flower, uplifting, trippy as hell and the smell... I guess none of police dogs would ever stop me when carrying it lol at the airport..


They seemed way bigger in the pics.. but ok if you have such beautiful plants yield isn't an issue,as for your woman.. she can always eat half or 1/4, lowering the potency? nahh i wouldnt do that...


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## simisimis (Aug 27, 2013)

well from my experience it's better to take more of something milder than less of something stronger.. cutting plant too early and smoking immature calyxes is a bit not that cool, waiting too long and see thc degrading is also something not that exciting. Maybe I would just need to look for some different strain. Sometimes when I have more C99 I need to sit down, cause heart is real racy, so I imagine this is something she is trying to avoid. And also when we have friends, some non smokers do not want to get knocked out by one toke


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## MrEDuck (Aug 27, 2013)

Maybe let it go a bit longer so it's not quite as up. And have her take smaller puffs. I wish I could give you guys some of my tolerance.


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## VTMi'kmaq (Aug 27, 2013)

im a late comer but im scribed im kinda curious about these strains.


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## simisimis (Aug 27, 2013)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> im a late comer but im scribed im kinda curious about these strains.


Be my guest mister  I'll try to do my best



MrEDuck said:


> Maybe let it go a bit longer so it's not quite as up. And have her take smaller puffs. I wish I could give you guys some of my tolerance.


)) yeah, actually I have to admit that even I get too high from 2 tokes of water pipe. I wish you could see how little I put in that pipe.. she's already smoking at very little doses..
Every forum thread I read people suggesting to toke less or harvest earlier or smoke leaves )

I'd really love some easy uplifting clear minded buzz that would not give you heart racing or anxiety effect, C99 is almost like that, but I had two times some bad experience from it, had to sit down and try not to move because it was too intensive. Heart was beating the hell out of me, I got paled and nearly sick. And that was from a bit bigger cookie than I usually eat 1st time, and 2nd time from smoking the same C99, but toking two times instead of one.. So I imagine my wife who is like nearly half my weight would need even less..

My first C99 I grew I cut at around 56-57day, curred without humidipaks and it had way lower potency.. Maybe I just need to do 2 part harvest on C99 and keep lower part for like 60+ days  

I saw some people recommending mexican landrace, jillybeans, durban poison.. dunno, too many things to try out when I have perfect strain just a bit too intensive. Prob I'll play with C99 with different harvest days..


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 27, 2013)

DAmn that zamal looks good!

That destroyer is gonna be a bitch to trim tho.


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## beuffer420 (Aug 27, 2013)

Flaming Pie said:


> DAmn that zamal looks good!
> 
> That destroyer is gonna be a bitch to trim tho.


most def gonna be a bitch in the trimming department but man does she look nice! 

Good show brutha!


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## HashSmoke420 (Aug 27, 2013)

Appears I just saw this journal at it's end. I'm rarely looking into any journals but I wanted to just make a routine check on someone else's plant as mine are undergoing flowering. Just to mention, I have 3 pure Sativas in 21 day of flower. However I'm impressed from this grow/journal. It really helped me understand how flowering works! It is my first grow I do now. I have to admit, I did not knew that I should not have vegetated my plants for 5 weeks. Now I end up having my largest at 132 cm height. I hope it doesn't grow bigger 'cause if it does I'll have some REAL issues lol.
Anyway congratulations on the journal and grow simisimis! You have to be proud of your second grow.  Oh by the way I took my time and read the entire journal from the very first post. 

I'm waiting to see some badass yields!


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## simisimis (Aug 27, 2013)

Flaming Pie said:


> DAmn that zamal looks good!
> 
> That destroyer is gonna be a bitch to trim tho.





beuffer420 said:


> most def gonna be a bitch in the trimming department but man does she look nice!
> 
> Good show brutha!


i feel u guys, i was getting exact same feeling while looking at those foxtails sticking out of foliage )))


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## simisimis (Aug 28, 2013)

HashSmoke420 said:


> Appears I just saw this journal at it's end. I'm rarely looking into any journals but I wanted to just make a routine check on someone else's plant as mine are undergoing flowering. Just to mention, I have 3 pure Sativas in 21 day of flower. However I'm impressed from this grow/journal. It really helped me understand how flowering works! It is my first grow I do now. I have to admit, I did not knew that I should not have vegetated my plants for 5 weeks. Now I end up having my largest at 132 cm height. I hope it doesn't grow bigger 'cause if it does I'll have some REAL issues lol.
> Anyway congratulations on the journal and grow simisimis! You have to be proud of your second grow.  Oh by the way I took my time and read the entire journal from the very first post.
> 
> I'm waiting to see some badass yields!


Hi man, glad to hear you like it what you read in here  This is my 4th actual grow, but I am not really counting the 1st one where I grew auto strain under 25watter and then I topped newly forming main cola. Also highly overwatered the plant and in the end had around 1g of dried buds 
You might also want to read through my previous grow C99+SLH also in the sig, because this and my previous grow was the place where the understanding of what's right and what's wrong kicked in


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## simisimis (Aug 28, 2013)

whoa this little grow journal turned into 35 pages thread ) Am I talking that much 

guys after I came back from holidays I can't figure out of what's happening with Zamal.. Leaves are cupping downwards. I tried watering yesterday with hydroperoxyde to see if this is because of lack of oxygen, however it did not get any better. Bottom-middle leaves yellowing. Some of those leaves turn yellow evenly, some leaves have 2 leaflets yellowing while 3 still green. Also wilted spots on some leaves. I had that on 27th page, but only 2 leaves, when I thought it was P deficiency.. But P deficiency is not that common indoors and my foods have a bit of it. And now it's a bit more serious. I can't get the plant back to the stage it was before. I doubt that there is N def, cause top part shows N excess and I was giving quite a lot of N lately cause first I thought that yellowing comes from N def. Maybe it's mg def, but I am supplementing like 1ml/L of camg, plus my tap water has like 300ppm, so I believe that there is quite a lot of ca and mg.. my foods have quite a lot of K in them, maybe K excess caused some lockouts.. Leaves do not have any rusty or whitish spots which would show ca or mg def.. at least not ca, maybe mg.. dunno... Also even when the leaves turn yellow, most of them do not drop that easily. Even if only couple of weeks left for the plant, I do not want those problems to progress. 
Maybe I should leach the plant and then water with half strength nutes. I think there might be some salt build up or something..
what you guys think?
any ideas appreciated


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## MrEDuck (Aug 28, 2013)

I would assume that your P issue is coming from a lockout or something else being wrong as cannabis needs so little phosphorous.


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## simisimis (Aug 28, 2013)

hmm.. If those wilted blotchy spots on yellowing leaves means phosphorus deficiency then the only element that could cause lock out prob would be calcium... acourding to this excess chart

but I'm also afraid that it would not be lack of mg with all those leaves bleaching out... Cause P deficiency according to Mel Frank book - 
has to have dark green color, but I wouldn't say my plant is dark green... Leaves curled downwards, but not their margins.. 

Argh.. dunno.. reducing Ca to test whether it's P def I would also reduce mg, because it's a camg fert..


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## MrEDuck (Aug 28, 2013)

Reduce the calmag and add a pinch of epsom salt if you're worried about losing the Mg.
I recently had a problem on a plant that started showing a P def and was talking with Homebrewer about it and having seen his grows I know that cannabis doesn't really need much P so I tend to agree with him that a P def is a signal that something else is wrong rather than insufficient P being present. 
This is what he said: "FWIW, a phosphorus deficiency really doesn't exist. Maybe that's not a good way to put it. If your food as any amount of P in it, that's going to be enough. A lot of times a deficiency isn't a deficiency, it's an environmental thing which could be bad water from the tap, lights that are too close, a disease in the medium, bad watering practices, etc. "


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## lospsi (Aug 28, 2013)

pics of the problem would help..


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## MrEDuck (Aug 28, 2013)

He posted them awhile ago. Something is keeping his plants from uptaking P, the question is what is the problem.


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## HashSmoke420 (Aug 28, 2013)

Could it be 'cause it's getting ready for harvest, I read everywhere that in the last few weeks right before harvest some of the lower leaves to middle ones turn yellow-ish and perhaps fall down (some of them)?



MrEDuck said:


> He posted them awhile ago. Something is keeping his plants from uptaking P, the question is what is the problem.


If that is the likelihood of the case then perhaps a pH issue making the plant unable to consume the P in the soil?

By the way, one of my ladies is my current avatar. ^_^


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## MrEDuck (Aug 28, 2013)

The leaves should only die off in the last few weeks if you aren't feeding the plant enough. Ideally you should feed a touch past where you see any deficiencies. Overfed plants taste like shit but if you don't overfeed and cure for a few weeks there is no need to flush. Of course teh nute companies all tell you to overfeed your plants and then flush them because you use twice as much or more that way.
The lady in your avatar looks nice man!


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## simisimis (Aug 28, 2013)

Well there are few things I suspect. i.e. watering. I simply pour tap water. But through out the grow it hasn't been a problem. The only thing that really changed was the soil got brick hard massively tied with roots. Another thing, I leached it 2.5 months ago. There should have been some sort of salt build up with all that N overfert in the past I had.. Also I am watering some amount of water that almost never runs off. I try to pour as much as I could, but my tray are so close to the pot that after it runs off in a minute soil sucks it back into the medium. And i.e. KH is watering until he has 20-30% runoff.. With my space I was unable to make a system for proper runoff, but now I got some ideas and on my next grow I'm planning to fix that.
I do not believe that it is pH problem, nor the P def. As those things were never the problem and is such a rare thing to have. But rather overfert with some salt build up. And now when all that stretching is gone and plant is just finishing its buds it doesn't need all that amount of ferts I was giving her. Thinking now to water with some hydroperoxide, N and a tad of epsom salt. Also ferts I used had quite some K. K excess could have caused calcium and N deficiencies.. 
I just checked Zamal, top leaves got a bit better what concerns cupping downward, so maybe that hydroperoxyde did help after all, just had to be more patient. Anyway, we will see in few days. 
Colas are already falling, stems does not support them.

OMG just remembered..
Here are some pics. Pay attention to the tips of top leaves. I think that girl who was taking care of my plants was giving plants hard time with ferts, cause trays were covered with some sort of brown precipitate I never had before. Destroyer was lifted a bit, so I saw lots of water in the tray real brown. How could I not remember that.. That would explain why zamal cupped with those overwatering and overfert signs.. 
Maybe I should do some serious leaching.. What you guys think?

Deficiencies. I managed to find only two leaves showing wilted spots. The rest are just yellowing. Pay attention how pic on the left has few yellow blades, few wilted, and couple of still green leaflets



here are overfert signs on plant tips:






Cola with still some new stigmas sticking out






one of the bigger colas which is smaller than 33cl can(still I got like 18 of them, so I don't worry too much ))






General pic. As you can see it's not a real disaster, just some leaves yellowing, some cupping, some showing overfert signs...


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## HashSmoke420 (Aug 28, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> The leaves should only die off in the last few weeks if you aren't feeding the plant enough. Ideally you should feed a touch past where you see any deficiencies. Overfed plants taste like shit but if you don't overfeed and cure for a few weeks there is no need to flush. Of course teh nute companies all tell you to overfeed your plants and then flush them because you use twice as much or more that way.
> The lady in your avatar looks nice man!


Indeed, I failed to see things at that big resolution! I had some over fertilizing issues following the feed schedule of my fertilizer, as I balanced it upon how plants react now they all grow twice as fast from before and are a lot healthier. 

Nice picture additions simisims! They are looking fine, I guess those minor issues are the best case scenario for the issue where you were missing 12 days.  It is my first grow, but yet I hope to get buds similar to the ones you have, that are some badass flowers! 

Though I never expected cannabis to have such a great smell, even my mum likes it.  Beside all other things for which we like it, cannabis is such a beautiful flower.


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## simisimis (Aug 28, 2013)

HashSmoke420 said:


> Indeed, I failed to see things at that big resolution! I had some over fertilizing issues following the feed schedule of my fertilizer, as I balanced it upon how plants react now they all grow twice as fast from before and are a lot healthier.
> 
> Nice picture additions simisims! They are looking fine, I guess those minor issues are the best case scenario for the issue where you were missing 12 days.  It is my first grow, but yet I hope to get buds similar to the ones you have, that are some badass flowers!
> 
> Though I never expected cannabis to have such a great smell, even my mum likes it.  Beside all other things for which we like it, cannabis is such a beautiful flower.


YES! those mj plants are such beauties.. In the mornings I sometimes spend 40min just sitting in the room and checking every leaf on them  I never get enough hehe.. But careful about the smell.. cause they signal about problems with it. So far the most wonderful smell for me was from C99... Ahhh tropical freshness... 
Your avatar looks real beautiful indeed  

That girl watered the plants as she is used to water her flowers at home... Pouring water until she saw half filled tray... :/ 
I said exact quantities of water to water, gave her syringe and told her exact amounts of nutes to add. there was only two bottles she needed to use. 
But she took initiative, read my garden calendar where I was marking which ferts and how much per liter I was using, and made some nasty mixture, cause there was so much precipitate in the tray... I did not had any of it throughout the whole grow.. 
But plants survived.. Now the question whether flushing zamal 3 times the medium and then adding regular feeding would do any good. Cause that would give some overwatering stress but hydroperoxyde could even the loss of oxygen when leaching..


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## MrEDuck (Aug 28, 2013)

You need faster draining soil if 3x the volume of the pot will make it look overwatered! Flush then feed with some hydrogen peroxide mixed in. It's a good practice to do every few weeks if you aren't doing a totally living soil where you only feed some sugars for the microbes. But that involves bringing stinky organic shit into the house.


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## simisimis (Aug 28, 2013)

prob I need to add more perlite then? Cause last time I leached Zamaldelica, I did not have to water her for over a week, because soil was soaked with water... usually I water every 3-4 days. Leaching every two weeks?  that's often.. omg.. Ok, then tomorrow I'll be doing some root laundry.. Last time I flushed her was June 18th.. my apartment almost drowned, this time hopefully everything will go smoother


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## MrEDuck (Aug 28, 2013)

One of the reasons I want to switch to a hempy grow is I like really fast drainage that allows you to totally clean out the medium by having water drain out the bottom as fast as you pour it in but you have a reservoir that lasts 2-3 days. Best of both worlds. And no guessing how fertile your soil is. I don't like to have guesswork in my grow!


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## lospsi (Aug 29, 2013)

maybe you are getting close to harvest man, are your buds still growing?or they have stopped? i am using epsom salts for mg, a pinch every 3 weeks. Did i tell you that i am in love with your plants?


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## MrEDuck (Aug 29, 2013)

Flush her in the bath tub. My phone wanted to change that to flush heroin. Ha!


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## buddy bud (Aug 29, 2013)

simisimis said:


> Be my guest mister  I'll try to do my best
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*
I know I am late on this one but get some grape fruit kush from Barnie s one of the best for the up but not lock you down high!!! *


Just my opinion I could be wrong


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## buddy bud (Aug 29, 2013)

simisimis said:


> prob I need to add more perlite then? Cause last time I leached Zamaldelica, I did not have to water her for over a week, because soil was soaked with water... usually I water every 3-4 days. Leaching every two weeks?  that's often.. omg.. Ok, then tomorrow I'll be doing some root laundry.. Last time I flushed her was June 18th.. my apartment almost drowned, this time hopefully everything will go smoother[/QUOT
> 
> 
> I think we over think it sometimes there is always some turn in color near the end of the grow !We can make things worse by adjusting what has been working !!!
> ...


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## simisimis (Aug 29, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> Flush her in the bath tub. My phone wanted to change that to flush heroin. Ha!


damn my entrance from 2nd floor where i grow is not big enough to go downstairs with the plant... and i dont have bathtube upstairs.. there's a way to go with the plant through stairway, but then i'd risk the neighbors to see me.. but it would be so convenient... still had to work for 3 hours before going home, will think of something


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## simisimis (Aug 29, 2013)

buddy bud said:


> I know I am late on this one but get some grape fruit kush from Barnie s one of the best for the up but not lock you down high!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thanks for suggestion man, i will read more about that strain!


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## simisimis (Aug 29, 2013)

buddy bud said:


> I think we over think it sometimes there is always some turn in color near the end of the grow !We can make things worse by adjusting what has been working !!!
> 
> 
> 
> Just my opinion I could be wrong


when you maintain balanced food, plant does not go yellow, it won't do any worse than it is, at worst case scenario i'll have the same what i have now  u'll see plant will say thank you to me


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## simisimis (Aug 29, 2013)

argh... took me two hours. Finally finished leaching Zamal. Got a lot of salty salts out of the medium.. To my surprise soil was real nice, water was running very easily through the medium, not like last time when I had to wait every two liters until it will go through.. Was a struggle to get the plant one floor down, cause this apartment is joined from two apartments and the guy who made it left a very little hole, so I hardly managed to climb the ladder with a 20L container in my hands  After leaching added 2ml/L hydroperoxyde, reduced other nutes like by 30%. If she will not show some progressing N def, will reduce it even more. After everything was done while lifting her back to the place I think I heard Zamal whispering something like - "Thank you".. 
here are some growroom abroad pics 

that ios7 beta on iphone4s drives me mad. Still need to relearn how to take normal pics.

looks like she's really almost there..



having a shower..


Some nasty water have been going through when I was away..


this is like "screwdriver", just grow food instead of apple juice and water instead of vodka... 


Now this is how I imagine santas bag..


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## HashSmoke420 (Aug 29, 2013)

You are right simisimis, the smell is quite dangerous! Good job on the flush! She will be back healthy very soon I guess.  And Santa's, ohh. <3 

I'm sorry for going off-topic here, but roughly at which week your plants stopped growing in height?


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## MrEDuck (Aug 29, 2013)

simisimis said:


> argh... took me two hours. Finally finished leaching Zamal. Got a lot of salty salts out of the medium.. To my surprise soil was real nice, water was running very easily through the medium, not like last time when I had to wait every two liters until it will go through.. Was a struggle to get the plant one floor down, cause this apartment is joined from two apartments and the guy who made it left a very little hole, so I hardly managed to climb the ladder with a 20L container in my hands  After leaching added 2ml/L hydroperoxyde, reduced other nutes like by 30%. If she will not show some progressing N def, will reduce it even more. After everything was done while lifting her back to the place I think I heard Zamal whispering something like - "Thank you"..
> here are some growroom abroad pics


I couldn't climb a ladder with a 20L pot full of soaking soil, I'd hospitalize myself. Also 20L worth of plant wouldn't fit in my space well at all. I bet I could beat 10oz in my space with a single plant though. It's 4 sq ft and Stella can hit a qp in under 2 sqft. I just did the conversion from oz/sqft to g/m^2 and it's ~300g/m^2 to 1oz/sq ft. So 8 oz would be 600g/m^2 which is fucking impressive yield for a small space and I bet dialed in I could hit 2.5/750. 


> that ios7 beta on iphone4s drives me mad. Still need to relearn how to take normal pics.
> 
> looks like she's really almost there..
> 
> View attachment 2796637View attachment 2796638


she looks pretty good for just being flushed and for being so neglected. Especially since how long has it been since you first saw pistils?


> having a shower..
> View attachment 2796639


told you bro! So much easier! I wish I had one of those moveable showerheads.


> Some nasty water have been going through when I was away..
> View attachment 2796640


That's a lot, how hard is your water? If it wasn't for the pic of the nutes going into solution I would say you had a lot of iron in your water. But I guess that could be fert salts. I have an extra drain tray that I use so after the plant has drained I can go pitch the runoff. Keeps them looking much cleaner.


> this is like "screwdriver", just grow food instead of apple juice and water instead of vodka...
> View attachment 2796642
> 
> Now this is how I imagine santas bag..
> View attachment 2796643


No way man, Santa's bag is full of super dank dried cured seeded buds and maybe clones in protective tubes. What if he hits turbulence and some branches break? He'll be trailing stanky danky for miles!


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## simisimis (Aug 29, 2013)

Nice man.... well I have grow space like 2 sq ft, maybe 2.5. And I'll get from both plants about 2-3oz.. well surely I have some space where to improve 
walking down was already a pain since buds were hiting walls, then I wrapped them in trashbag cause I knew those buds would go out of order. But going up... that was a real struggle, anyway, worth it.. really eager to see how she will look tomorrow.
I do not have too much of iron in my water. I had that in the town where I was born and tasting tap water would already make me sick.. here water is pure transparent and after boiling it there are no precipitate.. but still it has like 8.5pH and 300ppm... And all of that browning is from overwatering with overferted water.. Prob my biogrow food since it's so brown gives the colour.. Jeses..those cindy cookies I just baked and had one of them, it's easier to shit a brick than to write text in my journal ))

Anyway I want to lift the pot from the tray so I could more of runoff.
Yeah you're right about difficult transport of late-in-flower weed plants over the dried&cured buds, but so is ferarri or a fridge, yet everyone gets what they want 

I don't really know what to do with buds getting too heavy for the stems.. next time maybe I need to think about scrog? would be so much easier, but damn that space is limited.. I would be able to access that grow space only from 1.5 sides... but i still have time till next harvest to figure..


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## simisimis (Aug 30, 2013)

well well well.. 2 more hours and Will be cutting Destroyer down.. I wonder whether flooding and putting in a dark corner will do any good  The room was dark but not light proof there was still some very low light reaching flowers, but more like a moon light, so I am not worrying too much about it. Temps were quite high 75-77. Could not get it lower than 75.. Will post update after harvest.
Cheers


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## MrEDuck (Aug 30, 2013)

simisimis said:


> Nice man.... well I have grow space like 2 sq ft, maybe 2.5. And I'll get from both plants about 2-3oz.. well surely I have some space where to improve
> walking down was already a pain since buds were hiting walls, then I wrapped them in trashbag cause I knew those buds would go out of order. But going up... that was a real struggle, anyway, worth it.. really eager to see how she will look tomorrow.
> I do not have too much of iron in my water. I had that in the town where I was born and tasting tap water would already make me sick.. here water is pure transparent and after boiling it there are no precipitate.. but still it has like 8.5pH and 300ppm... And all of that browning is from overwatering with overferted water.. Prob my biogrow food since it's so brown gives the colour.. Jeses..those cindy cookies I just baked and had one of them, it's easier to shit a brick than to write text in my journal ))
> 
> ...


I need to start supporting Stella already and she's only a month in! Probably has a month and a half to go for seeds at least.
Ferrari's are easy to transport. Just push your left foot down and turn the key/push the button. I guess some of them you pull back with your hand to start but I'm not a good enough driver for the drop in shift time switching to a paddle shift from a traditional manual to be worth the loss of shifting traditionally. It was bad enough I had to give up having a manual as a daily driver because of knee problems, I will not give it up in a sports car!


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## simisimis (Aug 30, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> I need to start supporting Stella already and she's only a month in! Probably has a month and a half to go for seeds at least.
> Ferrari's are easy to transport. Just push your left foot down and turn the key/push the button. I guess some of them you pull back with your hand to start but I'm not a good enough driver for the drop in shift time switching to a paddle shift from a traditional manual to be worth the loss of shifting traditionally. It was bad enough I had to give up having a manual as a daily driver because of knee problems, I will not give it up in a sports car!


Well never drove sports car, but in last 8 years drove enough regular auto or manual cars to not want to do it again.. Now When I was on holidays, after 2 years I took out my bike from garage and did some serious washing and waxing.. 1993 american honda nighthawk cb750 4 cilynders, 490lbs... THat surely brought some colors in my life... had to do 200 miles with it, so now I'll be sleeping calmer hehe.. It's a pity in Amsterdam everybody cycle and here I don't see myself having a street bike..


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## simisimis (Aug 30, 2013)

Ok, finally, Destroyer's hanging 

THat flooding and ~100 hours of darkness really did something interesting to plant.. can't really tell what exactly. One of the things fan leaves dried while plant was growing. Plant got bright green color closer to the stem. Quite a lot of resin.. Could not believe how resinous that plant was. BUT it has more leaves than buds lol.. still even after quite serious trimming finally got to this...


this is way more than I was expecting.. When I started trimming fan leaves I realized that I'm not that hopeless grower as I was starting to imagine 


Another thing. OMG. I thought lets check how does the destroyer roots look like, cause this was the first time I was using container coating. I lifted the stem and whole unit of soil and roots went out. BUT... Look how nicely microkote container coating works... You can barely see those roots... no spinout whatsoever... So glad that I took KH advice! The only thing some white tiny drops can be seen on the pot in the pics. From the smell I think it's some sort of fungi. Prob because the plant was dipped in the water for that long.. But the roots... after 15 weeks root ball is so nicely and neatly packed... I'm speechless


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## MrEDuck (Aug 30, 2013)

Nice roots bro! CAn we see the bottom of the rootball too? Can't wait for a smoke report on this one.


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## simisimis (Aug 30, 2013)

yeah... you can feel that soil is overloaded with roots, but sides and bottom where plant roots had contact with coating looks almost rootless. while without coating it used to look curled and spinned like mad. 
Heres bottom pics:


Can't wait to dry it in a normal way and cure for a week and then I'll give some decent smoke report


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## HashSmoke420 (Aug 31, 2013)

Woah! MicroKote has a real nice results! I will consider it as well for my next grow. Can't wait for the smoke reports. Oh by the way it would be very interesting to see how much weight you harvested. Currently me having my first grow I realized that looking at how much you harvested and then looking at the weight in grams seems inadequate to me from what I used to buy down street. My guess here is that those people down street just lied so much, lol I'm glad I have my electrical scale, I'll know for sure how much stuff weights. 
Nonetheless great job simisimis!  From your grows I learned a lot more than what I used to from reading random articles in google and trying to decide which says true and which false stuff.


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## MrEDuck (Aug 31, 2013)

He's also growing 100% sativas that aren't exactly known for producing hard dense buds.


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## simisimis (Sep 1, 2013)

yeah... sativas ftw.. they make me alive exploring and happy, that's all I need  Well they do not really make, prob enhance is the word..

that leaching did help zamal. All the yellowing stopped. The only bad thing so far I see is overwatering signs. But that will be hopefully gone in 3 days or so.


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## HashSmoke420 (Sep 1, 2013)

Yeah, Sativa all the way! I hate couchlock is really not my thing, but I admit sometimes it's useful.


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## simisimis (Sep 3, 2013)

Hey guys, here's some more pics. 16 weeks and 1 day. Zamal is still showing a bit overwatering stress but on the whole doing quite nice.





















having some deficiencies now on tops:






but on the whole I'm really happy how I managed to keep that lady green and lose not too many leaves.. 
It's a pity I did full harvest of destroyer as it had very good potential to pack lower buds. It hqd loads of lower leaves and immature buds.. Well there's always next time


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## HashSmoke420 (Sep 4, 2013)

Looks great dude, I think the yellow leaves now are due to the late flowering.  I got mine now showing THC trichomes all over the buds.


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## simisimis (Sep 4, 2013)

HashSmoke420 said:


> Looks great dude, I think the yellow leaves now are due to the late flowering.  I got mine now showing THC trichomes all over the buds.


Sweet man, getting some frost on your girls huh?  make sure you keep your plant green and get yourself some boveda 62% humidipaks. Cause this makes curing like making candies.. Flavor, smell, potency... Once you try them you don't want to smoke improperly burped crunchy buds anymore.. My friend who's smoking like chimney said - "they feel weird, like I'm feeling sugar with my lips and the smell is twice stronger.." lol.. 

They are yellowing not because of late flowering. If you do it right, you have your leaves green through out the grow, if you preserve fan leaves you can do double harvest. Leaves = production, you loose them, you reduce your yield.
After I flushed I did not add any cal mag additive and this is what caused mg def. 
I am thinking of putting Zamal already into preharvest darkness. Buds became real difficult to support, all of the colas are bending down because of the mass.. Next time I am going to prepare those pots so this would not happen again but now just supporting with temporary solutions... Tomorrow will be weighting Destroyer. 
Can't wait to check how much weight it got


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## MrEDuck (Sep 4, 2013)

I'm very curious how she does for you too.


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## simisimis (Sep 5, 2013)

wOw guys.. today i weighted destroYer.. wtf soMTH wrong with my phone keyboard, PROB thC on my fiNGers.. anyway, plS ignore mistypes. IT yielded 49.8g, cant convert to oz atm^_^ im really impressed, i wonder what zamal will show in 1.5 weeks 
cheers everyone!


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## MrEDuck (Sep 5, 2013)

49g=1.75oz.
nice pull man! i can't wait to read a smoke report!


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## simisimis (Sep 5, 2013)

well i'm really surprised, buds looked quite airy, was expecting them to shrink way more. on my previous grow with the same wattage i got 36g of C99 and 33g of super lemon haze.. looks like im going to beat my personal record  if not taking into consideration length of flowering... will be doing smoke report after a week of curing


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## MrEDuck (Sep 5, 2013)

You did a good job training them. I definitely want to run some of the ace/cbg sat hybrids. Can't wait for the smoke report!


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## Flaming Pie (Sep 5, 2013)

Zamal looks great simi!

How long did you veg the destroyer? 1.75 oz for 10 weeks seems low.


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## simisimis (Sep 5, 2013)

Hey flaming, i wanted to do 12/12 from seed, but i was still using the room when i sprouted the seeds, so i was keeping them on 24/0 for first 5 days, cause i had no spare timer. and then 14 weeks of flower for destroyer. i know it's far from good, i made my mistakes, but also destroyer was sharing 150w of cmh and 50w of cfl, had real high temps and stuffy air for over a month, was overfeeded, never leached. also plant height in total was around 14". at least i know what i did wrong and whwre i can improve


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## Flaming Pie (Sep 5, 2013)

Well the zamal looks like it is gonna have some weight. =)


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## lospsi (Sep 6, 2013)

simisimis said:


> wOw guys.. today i weighted destroYer.. wtf soMTH wrong with my phone keyboard, PROB thC on my fiNGers.. anyway, plS ignore mistypes. IT yielded 49.8g, cant convert to oz atm^_^ im really impressed, i wonder what zamal will show in 1.5 weeks
> cheers everyone!


i am happy to say i told you so,nice harvest man zamal will go better for sure


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## simisimis (Sep 6, 2013)

hehe lospsi, u were right  but i wouldn't bet on that just yet, zamal looks big only in pics. it's buds are way less airy than dest, but they are so much smaller.. how about let's just wait and see 
give me a week to cure a bit dest so i could give you some smoke report


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## MrEDuck (Sep 6, 2013)

50g for a 12/12 from seed under a 150W ain't bad. The pure sat hybrids and worked lines are massive improvements over the landrace strains but they're still never going to be considered high yielding.


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## HashSmoke420 (Sep 7, 2013)

Hmm 50g for the setup simisimis got is just great, indeed. I hope to harvest about 40g per of my three plants, but perhaps I miscalculate it over all, 'cause 2 of my plants already exceed 5 feet feeling so confused and dumb about it I barely have an idea what will happen. :X I counted and on the smallest plant there's 119 buds growing and that's from the 2 and 3/4 feet plant. I really really really underestimated the height growth of Sativa. For my clones I'll start flowering when they are over half a feet. Lol, no more Christmas trees, my mother is going to kick me out if this repeats. But the good news is some bubble hash I made from the male that I had. 

Anyway about me, looking forward for the smoke report!


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## simisimis (Sep 9, 2013)

looks like it's going to be a long pleasant evening


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## MrEDuck (Sep 9, 2013)

If you find trimming pleasant wana come by the states in about 5 weeks?


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## simisimis (Sep 9, 2013)

))) it's very kind of you, but it's been over two hours already and i did barely 2/5 of trimming lol.. i find it pleasant only first hour, when there's only one plant that's going to be trimmed.. just scraped scisor hash and toked it, hmm i shouldn't have done it, my fps dropped down to a level that i see in frames now lol.. will be difficult to trim hehe


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## MrEDuck (Sep 9, 2013)

I just don't like having to trim solo. One of the few things I miss about having a partner.


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## simisimis (Sep 9, 2013)

damn i feel you bro, sitting all alone in that room.. it's a pity we are oceans apart lol, would gladly join the trimming party )


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## Kite High (Sep 9, 2013)

So Destroyer high report? ZAMAL smoke report has me craving like a crackhead to read

Am home now but still touch and go as to survival..Lotsa pain weakness fall


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## simisimis (Sep 10, 2013)

Kite High said:


> So Destroyer high report? ZAMAL smoke report has me craving like a crackhead to read
> 
> Am home now but still touch and go as to survival..Lotsa pain weakness fall


It takes more than that to get you. I'd say meteor or something, so do not give up. You scared quite a lot of people out here and there. Make sure you take care of yourself with love and care cause people want you back on track 

Wanted to cure destroyer for a week, but for you my brother, I'll do it tonight  I toked a tip of the iceberg already, but was too afraid to do a regular puff, tonight will try what destroyer does to my brains and body. Cause that little amount I toked was quite powerful. I did not get racy heart effect, but felt very much uplifted and giggly. But that was half of what I usually try and Dest was only after 1 day of curing.

So yesterday I harvested Zamaldelica. 124 days in total. 119days in flower. Took me 5 hours. But only because I was not in a hurry, I tried some dest-zamal mixed scissor hash and I enjoyed how nicely packed was Zamal colas, not too many leaves were sticking out of buds. Because I did 4.5 days of total flooded darkness, I got some nice extra resin. BUT in this harvest was something different, I do not know if it was because of strain or because of the flood, but calyxes were sort of sugary crusty. They felt more like dried buds rather than green growing ones  Was thinking that maybe this was because of the fermentation caused by flood? Oh and the smell was like sugary+diesel+citric.

Anyway here's zamal final shots:


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## lospsi (Sep 10, 2013)

That's an all star plant mate, congrats on your grow looking forward for your next attempt!


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## simisimis (Sep 11, 2013)

Hey guys, so here's some long waited smoke report of destroyer.

Yesterday I smoked some of better looking calyxes and I was very surprised about the lack of potency in it.. Probably I cut the plant down way too early or maybe even too late, since I saw so many resin glands getting amber.


Dest was only 4th day in the curing box. So no wonder that the taste wasn't that impressive. So far the smell is like fresh drying hay. The taste was not harsh, but no specific taste in it. It took quite some time to fully kick in. About 40-50 minutes. Two hours was quite intense, then another hour was real mild, but I felt it on me. 


The effect was energetic, uplifting, giggly. But that was it. Was able to do my things and stay social without having any thought interruptions. Comparing to C99 it was weaker. But hey, few weeks ago I asked here for a strain with exact same characteristics so my wife(or even me, when not in a mood to dip my balls into some neverland chronicles) would be able to smoke it and there I have it 

Dunno, maybe curing will add some more potency in it over some weeks, but I am really not disappointed, was really fun to grow and I learned A LOT  I know where I made my mistakes and what I could do to double my performance, if not in weight, then at least in quality  

BUT in less than two weeks zamal will hit the stage and I can tell you already guys, this one gonna be some kick-ass candy smoke! The smell alone while trimming made me trip haha. Calyxes at harvest day were like roasted sugar.. mmm getting watery mouth only by thinking about it 

And btw, here's my weeBar  Getting some assortment huh.. 






Cheers!


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## Flaming Pie (Sep 11, 2013)

It takes 2-3 weeks for the smell and taste to come. 

Can you get pics of the Trichs?


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## simisimis (Sep 12, 2013)

Hi there Flaming, 
here you go some closeups of destroyer:
























Now some interesting experience from yesterdays smoke. If you were reading closely, somewhere ~5 weeks ago I said I harvested some of zamal for my wifey(~4g dried). Wanted less potent weed so she could smoke it as well. Well guess what, she has been saying to me that she really loves zamaldelica, that it makes her real happy and passionate etc. So yesterday I decided to smoke some of it. Oh.. my.. god.. That really was helluva smoke. Since it has been curing already for 4 weeks the smell was real nice. I was doing that through water pipe so did not get much of a taste, but when I'll be doing my final zamal harvest smoke report I'll smoke it through glass pipe. 
Now the interesting part. Effect kicked in within 10-15min. Lasted for ~1.5-2 hours. And was so god damn trippy. Whoa



Did not get overwhelmed by intense heart beats. Dunno whether this is a strain or harvest window related thing but it was very much uplifting, active, psychedelic, even arousing lol. Had to take a bedroom brake with my wife before dinner.. 
I don't know how the effect will differ from the one I harvested few days ago, but I'm pretty sure it will rock even more..

Happy smokes everyone!


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## MrEDuck (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks for the reports man!


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## simisimis (Sep 12, 2013)

hehe report is still on the way, this was some spoiler 
both strains have their place in my assortment so i'd say the grow was successful 

btw, i received sodium thiosulfate, so now the only ingredient to STS is silver nitrate that i need to get and i will start my new C99 grow


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## HashSmoke420 (Sep 13, 2013)

Lol, dude, simisimis, that's some real killer weed you made! I confess, the best I ever seen, that trichomes! And the effects, awesome, as just as I like them as well. I have no patience for mine to be ready.  

I'm sorry to ask this, but I'm curious, how much you put in a cigarette? I think this one looking that bad should require just little bits?

Anyway, thank you for the reports I'm definitely looking forward these strains as well, just need to be able to afford them.


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## simisimis (Sep 13, 2013)

HashSmoke420 said:


> Lol, dude, simisimis, that's some real killer weed you made! I confess, the best I ever seen, that trichomes! And the effects, awesome, as just as I like them as well. I have no patience for mine to be ready.
> 
> I'm sorry to ask this, but I'm curious, how much you put in a cigarette? I think this one looking that bad should require just little bits?
> 
> Anyway, thank you for the reports I'm definitely looking forward these strains as well, just need to be able to afford them.


Haha man, thanks for compliments, but seriously.. best.. roflmao.. This is far.. far from best that people manage to get over here  

I do not roll joints actually.. Don't really like mixing it with tobacco, even if I'm a tobacco smoker.. I add a pinch of grinded weed (1/10th 1/15th of a gram) into glass pipe or water bong, light it and make a deep deep breath until I see that all of it burns completely. My aim is that all of the smoke would go into my lungs(why waste it seeing smoke getting into the air). My lungs are quite big. My personal record on holding air without breathing is 4:05min. First time I dived 50 meters I was 13 yo. 
So I make a big puff, hold it for few seconds and breathe it out. Then usually 5-10min and I'm baked continue on my business.. Sometimes when I have cough, I light a little of it and gently breathe until the live coal fades away. Then I relight it and repeat until only ashes are left. 

I had this idea that this partial lighting was giving me milder effect, i.e. there's not enough temperature to turn TCHA into THC. This is how I was smoking destroyer. So I'll be having more of destroyer soon hitting bigger puff at once and will comment it whether the effect was any stronger.


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## MrEDuck (Sep 13, 2013)

If it's burning it's getting hot enough to decarb the THCA. 
Goddamn you can hold your breath for a long time! 3 minutes is an absurdly long time.


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## HashSmoke420 (Sep 13, 2013)

Woah man, I do exactly the same. I think this is a lot healthier in fact and definitely a better experience.


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## lilroach (Sep 15, 2013)

My first couple of grows I was yielding 1+ ounces per plant. The last grow I did (two plants) I got 3 ounces per plant.

If you're interested, here's a link to what I did to get my yield.

https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog30146-what-i-did-increase-my.html

Here's something about the nutrients I used:

https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog30140-im-changing-my-name-big.html


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## simisimis (Sep 17, 2013)

Oh Happy days... (chorus - oh happy daaaaays...)


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## simisimis (Sep 17, 2013)

Wow... now this is something unexpected. And I thought that I got a lot of destroyer...
I'm so fkin high I cannot believe how high.. When I started this reply I thought I still have time before freshly dried zamal will kick in.. I was wrong.. So I'll try to write what I came here for.. 

Ok guys.. this is sick. That sneaky sneaky zamal huh..













First of all. spending 5 hours trimming and Drying in a cool 66-70F 55% rh for a week did quite a good job for me. Today I trimmed dried buds from stems into 1liter box and weighted them.. As you can see I harvested even more than from destroyer. Those tiny calyxes, lots of them, packed so well... mmm.. And yes, those 64.6g are purely from weed. Plastic box and a bag was already deducted from total weight. I'm nearly dancing.

After I weighted them I thought it's worth trying a bit of it. I took half of what I take of C99 and ohgod I'm tripping my ass right now with keyboard buttons pressing my fingers not vice versa. Effect hit me like a train from the clear sky.
I'll be definitely growing this strain again. Such a sativa high.. Uplifting, fills with energy. Very nice smell I'd say. Even similar to C99 when dried. Taste was already not that bad and I only now started curing her. Heart is racy, feeling pressure in my chest ) 
And did I say it's trippy?


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## MrEDuck (Sep 17, 2013)

Sounds really nice man!


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## lospsi (Sep 18, 2013)

So you got 4 oz quality hemp with a 150 w lamp hps. Very close to 1 gr per watt.That is awesome mate!


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## simisimis (Sep 18, 2013)

hm, well dunno if you can count simply on lamp watts. there were fans 20W, there were additionally 2 cfl, which prob had a purpose of consume electricity rather than provide light. Also I was using CMH with HPS ballast. That one is a nice lamp. Totally love it. Not only the room looks properly lit, not that dark yellow with stripes in pics, but also plant seems to be more happy getting wider color spectrum under it. So you see there's a lot to take into consideration. Anyway I got some real nice quality zamal and that alone was worth waiting 17weeks..  
next grow will be going on two 18liters buckets. preparing already even if I'll start growing after some weeks  still nice to think of the infrastructure instead of running to the store and buying things I don't need 

here's my new pots


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## Flaming Pie (Sep 18, 2013)

Happy for ya simi!

Don't forget to root for my grow! Harvest approaches in three weeks!


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## simisimis (Sep 20, 2013)

Flaming Pie said:


> Happy for ya simi!
> 
> Don't forget to root for my grow! Harvest approaches in three weeks!


Thanks!
subbed for sure 
Love to see plants going down for harvest


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## HashSmoke420 (Sep 20, 2013)

WoW this sounds great simisimis! Lol, guys sorry for going off-topic but this sounds interesting I think, a few pages back I shared that one of my plants is almost 170 cm high, yesterday I checked and it is high now about 2 meters :X. Damn sativas lol, this shit is taller than me.  I'm really going to use your technique simisimis, I don't want plants over 180 cm high ... lol


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## simisimis (Sep 26, 2013)

HashSmoke420 said:


> WoW this sounds great simisimis! Lol, guys sorry for going off-topic but this sounds interesting I think, a few pages back I shared that one of my plants is almost 170 cm high, yesterday I checked and it is high now about 2 meters :X. Damn sativas lol, this shit is taller than me.  I'm really going to use your technique simisimis, I don't want plants over 180 cm high ... lol


lol the only way I could get 2 meters in my room if I would put that horizontally lol.. yeah.. going 12/12 from seed with topping and bending them around the cage did the trick for me. Actually even more than I wanted. Cause I got it under 1.5'. With medium in total it was around 2.5'.. I still had a spare foot to go..
Will have to check on your grow man, interested how you managed to cope with 2 meter plant


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## simisimis (Sep 26, 2013)

When I harvested zamal, I flooded her for last 4 preharvest days to increase fermentation process so the curring would go faster and after that I wanted to try to reveg one branch of zamal. But mold that appeared due to flood, lack of oxygen in soaked soil and busy times I had to put some effort in saving the plant, looks like I failed to reveg her. 

Well, no biggie. On my next grow I decided to get some old school strain - Kali mist from serious seeds. Tall and lanky and with a long flowering period. This was a first strain I wanted to order, but they were selling it only in packs of 6, and I am not very keen on paying 80eu for it. But now I found some seller that sells per seed, and 15eu I'd say is perfect for me  And since I have managed to grow zamal, I'm pretty positive I could do this one as well  Another 18 weeks I guess, but.. I have like 200g of smoking material which will entertain me for way more than that.

That said. Here's my new plan. *

Growing medium* 
2x 18 liters square pots, painted with microkote container coating. (Previous grows were on a 12L and 22L rounded pots.) Also with added cage and bamboo sticks at the corner for later support. Lifted from trays so once it the water runs off, it does not get soaked in.

*Soil* 
*2:1 ratio* of *Biobizz All-mix*(20% sphagnum peat moss, 35% garden peat, 10% high quality worm manure, 30% perlite and 5% Pre-Mix) and clay balls(*hydroton*). Adding more clay balls at the bottom and on top. A purpose is to make it very easy draining.

*Seeds*
FS C99 and SS Kali Mist.

*Feeding*
Will be high N food all the way through with increased calmag from 4th week into flowering and potassium silicate(dynagro protekt alternative). Probably will be finishing my Biobizz biogreen, Aptus calmag-plus and Potsil. But I god some salts I really want to experiment, so if MrEDuck will give me a kick, I might try to make my own fert out of 4 salts I ordered. This time I will be concentrating on the roots, so they'd have moisture and oxygen. Will be using some hydroperoxide. Watering with 60F temp water. And most importantly - will be leeching it every few weeks. No more salt build up!

*Breeding*
This is something new to me and I can't wait to try it out. Will be making some fem seeds out of those strains.. Got already Sodium thiosulphate, still need to get silver nitrate for STS, but I already have a seller that is going to send me silver nitrate once he will receive it from his suppliers. If all goes well and my painbrush will do the trick well, I might not need to buy seeds for a long time  Getting 20 seeds is my goal.
*
Plan* 
First start with C99 and veg her for about 4 weeks. If all goes well at week 3 C99 will be topped for 4 colas. At the same time will drop Kali Mist. After 7-10days all goes into flowering. Will double harvest Cindie at day 49 and 60 and will keep Kali running until she gets where she has to get. 

Not planning to have temp problems anymore since it's fall already and temps now will be at 70-78. Having to warm up a place is easier than to cool it down. 
Well for me this is going to be interesting, hopefully for you guys as well. 

It's a real pain to think that one person less will be watching my grow but some cultures believe that death is a best thing that could happen to us in our existence. So let the peace be with you.
Thanks for all you gave me and.. See you in another life brother..


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## HashSmoke420 (Sep 26, 2013)

I will be missing you simisimis, I hope you decide to make a journal for your next grow as well. I had a lot of fun reading through your previous journals and will definitely enjoy to hear more stories. 

Ohh and just noticed the breeding part, I also made a few dozens of feminized seeds for me, but using the old fashion way with plants stressed till they show hermaphrodite signs. I'm yet just a poor teen, lol a funny fact, for this grow of mine I spend like 25 $ from the beginning.  The expectation is to receive about 250 grams of medium quality weed. I guess the investment is worth it. 

But I'm a very lucky boy actually ... from a total of 8 seeds, 5 sprouted and 4 was female.  And my mother stressed out one of the little little ladies well little for that time, now they are a mature wifes lol, 2 meters monsters. xD


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## MrEDuck (Sep 27, 2013)

Nice man. Kali Mist is some good stuff!


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## hopeyougotadutch (Oct 2, 2013)

Nice haul Sim. Kali Mist does sound like some great smoke.


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## simisimis (Oct 4, 2013)

Woo whooo!

Just placed an order for the Kali Mist. Next week expecting to receive silver nitrate, potassium nitrate, alfalfa meal and seeds. I am so fucking tired of not growing.. My morning routine is incomplete.. 






hopeyougotadutch said:


> Nice haul Sim. Kali Mist does sound like some great smoke.


I was googling a lot when I wanted to pick a seed for my first grow. Main specs were uplifting, lmao'ing, clear headed buzz. A lot of people were voting for it, but it was too pricey for me to buy 6 seeds when I only needed one.
Part of a description of Kali Mist that it has some pain killing properties easing women Prehistoric Monster Syndrom which I could really apply on my hot tempered pms driven wife and also get myself a break from back trauma which I got 10 years ago. I got used to casual pain already but sometimes after having some sports or more intensive weekend I'm on the irritating pain for 2-3weeks. 

I really can't wait to try to grow it. But there's something I'm really afraid of. On description I see that if produces not that many leaves and airy buds. With my 150W CMH I'm afraid that buds might not develop that good.

However temps are dropping outside and I might be abble to support plant with more cfl than I was able in summer.


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## hopeyougotadutch (Oct 5, 2013)

Yea, going to be great to have that cool air back. Though, where I'm at, we shot up close to the 90's this week, after a nice cool 70F week. But, it's coming. Working on moving some of my shit so I can get my box next to a window and take advantage of it. 

You going to pop the kali mist when it gets here or..?


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## simisimis (Oct 6, 2013)

hell yeah! im going to top, lst the hell out of kali. same as i did with zamaldelica. and all with 12/12 from seed. 

so, on friday i placed an order of Kali, saturday it was already in my mailbox.. what a service 
also ordered this:
http://www.zamnesia.com/magic-mushroom-grow-kit/1111-thai.html?language=all&iPage=2
looks like some balls are going to trip this fall.

also something happened. I went to a friend and his tourist friends left him some weed leftovers.
he asked me to check on it cause it was very strange. buds were looking black. they had a lot of untrimmed leaves and you were barely able to see trichs on it. also it had no smell.
what kind of things they sell to tourists in coffeeshops. they knew that they are not going to come back anyway. but black nugs is something i've never seen or heard about it. google gave me black indica, but when i smoked it it was more sativa hihg. maybe mold, but it did not look like one. 
BUT, when i was checking that weed, i saw two seeds. one was a bit cracked, another looking good but green in color and i've read that green means imature. so i dropped them in a water to see if they'll sprout. after 12 hours, the cracked one was showing tap root already... wow that's a fastest thing sprouted for me so far. if they are going to make it, they will be replacing my window tomatoes in the kitchen hehe. but will be more of a decoration rather than actual grow.


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## lospsi (Oct 6, 2013)

i have grown psilocubine shrooms in the past with great success ,it's very easy,stay small to medium on your doses they can fuck your brain pretty bad


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## simisimis (Oct 6, 2013)

i did only truffles so far and those were amazing. except for one thing. they are fkin disgusting. i get goose skin only by thinking about them. something do not click between us. cause im the only one from my friends who gets that. been reading people advices to eat 2g of dried shrooms. will see, i'm a careful user 
thanks for the warning!


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## lospsi (Oct 6, 2013)

simisimis said:


> i did only truffles so far and those were amazing. except for one thing. they are fkin disgusting. i get goose skin only by thinking about them. something do not click between us. cause im the only one from my friends who gets that. been reading people advices to eat 2g of dried shrooms. will see, i'm a careful user
> thanks for the warning!


 a medium dose is about 2,5 gr dried, for your first time yea thats a good dose to start, shrooms are also disgusting,make em powder and try to make a chocolate cube with em .Start in ben mari with the chocolate and then add the powder.You don't want high heat cause it kills the substance,hope it helped..


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## MrEDuck (Oct 6, 2013)

simisimis said:


> i did only truffles so far and those were amazing. except for one thing. they are fkin disgusting. i get goose skin only by thinking about them. something do not click between us. cause im the only one from my friends who gets that. been reading people advices to eat 2g of dried shrooms. will see, i'm a careful user
> thanks for the warning!


2g is a good starting dose. I generally eat 3.5-4g.
I'll second chocolate or peanut butter for helping mask the taste.


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## simisimis (Oct 6, 2013)

brilliant! omg cant wait to try it out. chocolate is a great idea. i wasn't using it cause seller told to avoid eating sugar unless ur tripping too hard.. so i was eating it with yoghurt.. but if u do it, then i believe it works. 

one friend said to me that he also hated the taste of truffles and he doesn't have that feeling with shrooms.. it's still disgusting, at least body does not deny it. will have tro try for myself i guess. 

guys do you have any estimate on how much can i take of non dry shrooms?
cause my friend is flying over in 3weeks and if i'll harvest it in 18 days., it will have too little time to dry.


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## lospsi (Oct 6, 2013)

mushrooms when dried to the bone loose 9/10 of their weight, so 2 grams dried = 20 grams fresh


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## MrEDuck (Oct 6, 2013)

lospsi said:


> mushrooms when dried to the bone loose 9/10 of their weight, so 2 grams dried = 20 grams fresh


Yup


simisimis said:


> brilliant! omg cant wait to try it out. chocolate is a great idea. i wasn't using it cause seller told to avoid eating sugar unless ur tripping too hard.. so i was eating it with yoghurt.. but if u do it, then i believe it works.
> 
> one friend said to me that he also hated the taste of truffles and he doesn't have that feeling with shrooms.. it's still disgusting, at least body does not deny it. will have tro try for myself i guess.
> 
> ...


You should be able to dry them in 3 days. 
We just got a double boiler. Maybe I should make some mushroom chocolates...


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## simisimis (Oct 6, 2013)

oh shit, that sounds like a big amount to deal with )) thanks for the tips!


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## MrEDuck (Oct 6, 2013)

It's really not much. A cup of fresh mushrooms is going to weigh somewhere in the area of 75-100g. Figure you would typically serve a half cup as a side with dinner.


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## Chronic Masterbator (Oct 13, 2013)

Yo Sim I missed this thread for awhile. Did fucking awesome. Can't wait to see Kali mist. That's on my wish list.


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## simisimis (Oct 14, 2013)

Hey Cronic! glad to see you back  well run was more successful on zamal, i failed to bring most of destroyer, anyway, i learned a lot and being way more positive about my next grow  will see how kali mist will appreciate it. see you there


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