# THC/SCHIZOPHRENIA relations



## plantsinpants (Jan 29, 2010)

so this 1h documentary on the relations between pot and shizophrenia,, it was on " the nature of things" with David Sizuki,, if yall want to google it or wtv,, anyways to make a long story short,,-- pot contains 2 main ingredients that are THC and CBD,, ok ,,,, now theyr saying that pot from the 70's had equal ammounts of THC and CBD ( i think thats bullshit,, they had great pot in the 70's) and theyr saying that todays pot is bred and grown specificly for THC and not CBD,,,, on top of that they say that too much THC can trigger schizophrenia,,, but lots of CBD can prevent schizophrenia,, this had my mom in a state of pannic for me!
so i will read more into this ,,, but if anyone can clear this up for me that would be super..



PEACE


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## trichlone fiend (Jan 29, 2010)

Ever seen a movie called, "The Union, The Business Behind Getting High"? This film is full of info on issues such as this. You can find it on Youtube.


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## plantsinpants (Jan 29, 2010)

ive seen the union they dont speak of this at all,.,, thanks anyways


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## oarngesownall (Jan 29, 2010)

well Idk but sometimes I hear music thats not there when im really baked.


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## clasonde (Jan 29, 2010)

i am a mmj patient diagnosed schizo-effective. i have to 100% agree that higher THC % makes things a LOT harder; increased paranoia and other symptoms. heavy indicas with a higher amount of CBD have always mellowed me out, calmed me down and made me relax and be able to function normally, hence the mmj. 70% of Sativas are my worst enemy.


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## lunari (Jan 30, 2010)

That's interesting, never heard anything like it before


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## rollmeUPoneSCOTTY! (Jan 30, 2010)

clasonde said:


> i am a mmj patient diagnosed schizo-effective. i have to 100% agree that higher THC % makes things a LOT harder; increased paranoia and other symptoms. heavy indicas with a higher amount of CBD have always mellowed me out, calmed me down and made me relax and be able to function normally, hence the mmj. 70% of Sativas are my worst enemy.


My brother is a diagnosed "paranoid-schizofrenic", and I too have noticed the
same when it comes to his ingestion of heavy indica herb(CBD), and near 
pure sativa herb(high THC). Even in myself some sativas stimulate far too 
much cerebral activity.... unless i've got a guitar or something to paint 
with in my hands.

edit: it seems to me this is a bit of an odd place for this thread. hm


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## rocksteady6 (Jan 30, 2010)

Its not rocket science to figure out that if you punish drugs, any drug, often enough you are going to become emotionally unstable which will eventually end up with some sort of neurological disorder. Blaming it on certain strains makes me laugh a little.
I thought i should edit this too. Allowing a schizophrenic to smoke is asking for trouble and in my eyes moronic. I have seen first hand some stuff that doesnt need to be posted here as a result. The good herb can be enjoyed like many other drugs in moderation and when it takes over your life, time for a break. Obviously medical users are a completely different story.


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## inval (Jan 30, 2010)

There is no real research or evidence to back up these claims. This falls under the category of journalistic sensationalism.


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## rocksteady6 (Jan 30, 2010)

inval said:


> There is no real research or evidence to back up these claims. This falls under the category of journalistic sensationalism.


 I think this site is full of wankers who know very little on various topics and want to criticise instead of offering help. I dont want to criticise your opinion but i it may interest you to visit the local psych ward and have a chat with their patients and discover how they came to be there. As you will see in my past posts i dont give advice on growing as i dont know about it. I know about this. Not all patients i agree but a lot. We dont need studies to confirm something thats completely obvious. Do we do studies on whether getting hit by a car causes injuries?


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## clasonde (Jan 30, 2010)

rollmeUPoneSCOTTY! said:


> Even in myself some sativas stimulate far too
> much cerebral activity.... unless i've got a guitar or something to paint
> with in my hands.


i was diagnosed schizo-effective and numerous other mental disorders pre-knowledge, let alone even knowing how to read, of marijuana.

indicas are a godsend, makes me fully functional.

but sativas can be a complete mistake. symptoms get outta control; i can try to pre-occupy myself but its like i have ADDx1000.


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## inval (Jan 30, 2010)

rocksteady6 said:


> I think this site is full of wankers who know very little on various topics and want to criticise instead of offering help. I dont want to criticise your opinion but i it may interest you to visit the local psych ward and have a chat with their patients and discover how they came to be there. As you will see in my past posts i dont give advice on growing as i dont know about it. I know about this. Not all patients i agree but a lot. We dont need studies to confirm something thats completely obvious. Do we do studies on whether getting hit by a car causes injuries?


Isn't it hilarious when someone says, "I think this site is full of wankers who know very little on various topics and want to criticise instead of offering help..." and then goes on to say something that a wanker who knows very little would say. I mean, really, to use an argument like you're a wanker if you don't see how self evident this. to resolve a complicated question like "Is there a link between pot and schizophrenia? 

In fact there is no relationship between the two:

One of the longstanding arguments against the use of marijuana is that is causes mental illness, in particular psychosis. For a long time, cannabis was said to be associated with a particular entity called cannabis psychosis. This entity has not been proven to exist.

Cannabis has also been said to be associated with depression and anxiety. Some people do experience anxiety when they use cannabis. In many cases, they used it for some time before an anxiety reaction started. A cannabis panic or paranoid reaction is quite common amongst all types of cannabis users. Generally, users who start to regularly get panic reactions tend to stop using the drug.

Anecdotally, many persons report relief from anxiety, depression, tenseness and anger from the use of marijuana. A friend of mine who was in jail for marijuana said he met many angry prisoners who used marijuana to reduce their anger. I known young males who are chronically hyper  tense, restless and on the verge of anger. Regular marijuana use works well to completely alleviate this condition.

In recent years, some frightening studies have come out connecting cannabis to psychosis, in particular to schizophrenia. On the surface, there would not appear to be much grounds for alarm. As you can see in my previous review on the subject of cannabis and brain damage, heavy use of cannabis, of all the intoxicating drugs, seems to be easiest on the brain.

This does not mean that it has no effects on the brain at all, but instead that heavy use of all of the other intoxicants is harder on or riskier to your brain than heavy use of cannabis.

Since heavy cannabis use is so much easier on your brain than heavy use of anything else, how is it then that cannabis should be associated with schizophrenia, while the other more harmful drugs are generally not? This is a bit of a mystery.

Promoters of the pot-schizophrenia link have suggested cannabis effect on the dopamine system  that is, it releases dopamine. Yet almost all drugs release dopamine, including alcohol, cocaine, methamphetamine, etc. In fact, coke and speed are far more dopaminergic than cannabis. Truth is that anything pleasurable releases dopamine  sex, chocolate, a good movie.

Animal models have not been particularly helpful in determining the relationship of cannabis to mental illness.

One recent animal model showed that not only did cannabis cause mice to actually sprout new neurons in the hippocampus, but it also reduced measures of depression and anxiety. Opiates, tobacco, alcohol and cocaine all reduce neurogenesis in the hippocampus. The reduced depression and anxiety seemed to be caused by the neurogenesis. Cannabis also protects mice against brain cell death caused by alcohol.

There is also evidence that cannabis is protective against the neurotoxic effects of stroke and head injury. Further evidence shows that cannabis is effective in slowing the progression of various neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimers, MS, Parkinsons, and ALS (Lou Gehrigs Disease).

Given the evidence that cannabis does not seem to do much bad to your brain, and if anything seems to be neuroprotective and even neurostimulatory, it seems odd that this drug should be connected with such a devastating brain disease as schizophrenia.

Nevertheless, the evidence seems to be there, and it is quite frightening to look it over. The initial study was an elegant analysis of Swedish military recruits in 1987.

The increased risk was on the order of 4.5 times for those using by age 15, but down to 1.6 times for those using by age 18. The increased risk was decreasing rapidly. Lets extrapolate to ages 16 and 17: Age 15: 4.5 X. Age 16: 3.7 X Age 17: 2.65 X. Age 18: 1.6 X. At that rate, all increased risk would have evaporated for users who wait until they are age 19 until they start using.

Since the Swedish study, the evidence has piled up. Still, despite the scary and numbing evidence, there is not yet any evidence that cannabis causes schizophrenia de novo. Instead, it appears to be interacting with some already existing risk factor.

This page is a good repository for the numbing evidence on this score.

However, that site has some serious problems.

They are finding increased risk of schizophrenia from everything from being too introverted and being alone too much, emigrating to a new country  up to 4X increased risk, having an unpleasant and unstable home life as a child, experience  social adversity  four or more episodes of abuse increased risk by 2.7X, living in a city (3X increased risk), especially an inner city (as opposed to the country), or being vulnerable to depression or anxiety.

In order to avoid schizophrenia, according to the site, one would have to never go live in a new country, never spend a lot of time alone or be an introvert, never move to a city or an inner city or never grow up in one, be robust in handling stress, experience little social adversity, and somehow assure that one had a happy and stable home life as a child.

At some point, you just have to live your life and these kind of risks be damned. Personally, I am dubious that any of these things actually contribute to schizophrenia.

A person slowly developing schizophrenia over years tends to spend a lot of time alone, become introverted, move to a major city (often the rundown inner city part), wander around the country or parts of the globe, experience a lot of social adversity and handle stress quite poorly as the disease slowly unfolds.

Their relatives often show various degrees of the illness themselves and this probably accounts for the problems in childhood experienced by mildly effected parents. Either that, or the person at risk of schizophrenia is already odd, hostile or combative, and this causes a poor parental relationship.

Even if cannabis did increase the risk of schizophrenia, there seems may be an age effect. Robin Murray found that first use at age 15 increased the risk of schizophrenia by 4 times, while by age 18, the risk had dropped to 1.65. By this trend, one assumes that at some point after age 18, the risk would drop to zero. Assuming the risk is real, it could be substantially ameliorated by avoiding cannabis until one is 18.

In general, most studies found about a doubled risk of schizophrenia from cannabis use. It is interesting to note that chronic heavy drinking was even more of a risk to psychosis than heavy cannabis use, increasing the risk by four times.

It has become clear in recent years that schizophrenia, when occurring over a period of years, is correlated with serious damage and disruption to the brain in a wide variety of areas and manners. The notion that a meager drug like cannabis could actually cause such dramatic dysfunction and damage is ludicrous.

The only thing that could possibly be happening here is cannabis triggering, or setting off, a cascade that begins the neurodegenerative process known as schizophrenia.

The pot-schizophrenia theory was recently blown up again by a truly absurd study. An MRI study showed that subjects given THC showed reduced activity in the inferior frontal cortex. This area controls inappropriate emotional and behavioral responses to situations. The more the activity was reduced here, the more paranoia the subjects experienced.

Somewhat bizarrely, the study claimed that pot-induced paranoia, which most users are familiar with, is synonymous with psychosis. They said that 50% of the users became psychotic and experienced schizophrenia-like symptoms. That is obviously idiotic. If that is psychosis, then every marijuana user I have known (thousands) have been psychotic many times.

The major problem with all of the studies showing a link between pot and schizophrenia is that we should have seen an explosion of schizophrenia in the West during the 1960s and 1970s. Instead, the rate was flat or even declined.

Advocates of the pot-schiz link such as Murray have all sorts of reasons why either rate has actually gone up when we found it didnt, or its going to go up in the future, or finally, that even heavy pot use by millions of citizens will only increase the rate of schizophrenia by 14%. This absurd and totally unproven 14% figure is now being bandied about by the media (see below).

This study from Australia concluded that since the incidence of schizophrenia has not risen with the explosion in cannabis use, cannabis cannot be said to cause schizophrenia. Instead, the study said cannabis appears to be triggering it in people who would have ended up schizophrenic anyway. However, cannabis use may worsen the course of schizophrenia in those who already have it.

The study was unable to conclude that cannabis use brings on schizophrenia quicker in those who would develop it anyway, since they found no trend in decreasing age of diagnosis, even with the explosion in cannabis use in recent years. However, this study did find that cannabis-using schizophrenics developed symptoms sooner than those who did not use it.

On the other hand, this may be explained by the very common phenomenon of heavy use of cannabis during the prodromal phase of schizophrenia. Another study suggested that cannabis use may be causing schizophrenia in people who would not otherwise develop it, but the lack of increased diagnosis would seem to argue against that.

Yet another Australian study concluded that cannabis precipitates and worsens schizophrenia in those who would have developed it anyway.

Much of this data is from a group of psychiatrists in London (centered around Robin Murray  see above) who are convinced that marijuana is increasing the incidence of schizophrenia in the UK.

They have produced data showing that the rate of schizophrenia has gone up in their inner-city neighborhood in recent decades. However, that increase is at odds with studies done over much of the rest of the world in recent decades.

The same researchers produced another definitive study that ends the debate about whether or not marijuana causes schizophrenia. It reviews a number of studies and shows that every study does find increased psychosis with increased marijuana use. It then predicts that 14% of all cases of schizophrenia in the UK are being caused by pot use. This conclusion is unwarranted.

First of all, there is indeed an association between pot use and schizophrenia (in my opinion, especially under age 18 and particularly under age 16). However, as you can see below, the rate of schizophrenia in general has been either flat or declining all through the cannabis epidemics of the past 40 years in the West.

Therefore, it is premature of the UK researchers to claim as yet that pot is causing 14% of schizophrenia cases in the UK.

A paper out of Micronesia dated 1993 noted that schizophrenia had increased dramatically in the previous 20 years. There had been an attendant increase in the use of marijuana and other drug use.

The Australian study above, one of the best studies done to date, completely rejected the notion that cannabis causes schizophrenia in persons who would otherwise not develop it, but did suggest that cannabis use may bring on schizophrenia sooner in those who were going to develop it anyway.

Heavy cannabis use does seem to be particularly problematic in early adolescence. Kids that age should not be using cannabis anyway.

The Australian study also suggested that cannabis worsened the prognosis of schizophrenia, but that the effect was not a large one. Studying this variable is difficult since the younger one is when schizophrenia comes on, the more likely the person is to relapse, and young people are the most likely to be cannabis users.

So cannabis use and relapse to schizophrenia are going to be co-occurring due to age alone. Nevertheless, there seems to be good evidence that schizophrenics need to stay away from this drug.

The one hypothesis that shines through most clearly in all of these studies is that schizophrenics tend to be more likely to use cannabis, and more likely to use it heavily, than non-schizophrenics. In other words, simply being schizophrenic increases the likelihood of cannabis use and dependence. We can surely agree with this theory  its not controversial at all.

Along the lines of the Australian study, we can look at tobacco use and lung cancer. As cigarette smoking skyrocketed, lung cancer went through the roof. As smoking declined, lung cancer rates also declined.

No such picture is being seen with cannabis and schizophrenia.

Another recent study is getting a lot of media play with a totally unwarranted pot-schiz link. It found an altered development of the arcuate fasciculus, a bundle of fibers connecting the Wernickes and Brocas Areas of the brain, one involved in the production of language and the other involved in the reception of language. Photo of the arcuate fasciculus is here, and a schematic is here.

Damage to the arcuate fasciculus is associated with a particular type of aphasia where language can be produced and comprehended well, but if you say something to the sufferer, they cannot repeat what you just said. The arcuate fasiculus is still developing in early adolescence, but it is not known if it continues growing in through late adolescence.

Lower volume was seen on the left side of the arcuate fasiculus in adolescent heavy marijuana users. In schizophrenia, there is reduced volume on both the left and right sides of the arcuate fasiculus. Defects in the arcuate fasiculus in schizophrenia have unknown significance, but the structure is abnormally activated, along with some other areas, during auditory hallucinations.

Excessive activation of the arcuate fasiculus associated with auditory hallucinations would not likely be caused by a reduced volume to the structure. With reduced volume, there would probably be less activation.

Damage to the brain in schizophrenia, as noted above, is quite vast and covers widely disparate areas of the brain, involving multiple structures.

Some areas are abnormally activated, while others are abnormally dormant. There are problems with various neurochemicals in the brain and receptor alterations in the cells themselves.

In short, schizophrenia is a disease caused by massive damage to the brain. One recent study likened it to a forest fire in the brain.

The problems in the arcuate fasiculus are but a tiny subset of the massive organic damage of schizophrenia. The fact that the arcuate fasiculus may be damaged by heavy cannabis use in adolescence is disturbing, but it hardly proves that such use causes schizophrenia, because schizophrenia requires much more damage than that.

Further studies using DTI found no abnormalities whatsoever in any part of the brain. In fact, if anything, adolescent cannabis users tended to have larger brains, with more cells (white matter) than the controls.

That doesnt mean that using cannabis in adolescence makes you smart, but it surely rules out significant organic structural brain damage, and it does add interesting weight to the neuroprotective and neurostimulatory papers above.

Furthermore, many reports of cannabis psychoses do not appear to be psychoses at all. This preposterous report of two cannabis psychoses, published in a respected peer-reviewed journal of all things, is illustrative.

Looking over the paper, Case 1 appears to have just gotten really stoned. If thats cannabis psychosis, then Ive been psychotic on cannabis hundreds of times, and I must have witnessed thousands of other cannabis psychoses.

Case 2 is a bit more difficult, as he became suspicious of the testers at one point. Its well known that cannabis users can feel frightened and even paranoid. Lord knows, I experienced it many times myself. However, the man merely felt that the testers were concealing problems from him. That really does not qualify as a paranoid delusion.

The world is full of suspicious people. At times, Im pretty suspicious and wary myself, for good reason, I would say. The vast majority of people even with pathological suspicion or paranoid ideation are not suffering from paranoid delusions.

Furthermore, the questions that are asked on questionnaires of cannabis psychosis are dubious. Most people cannot be trusted. Well, if you live in the ghetto or the barrio, thats a damn good attitude!

Sometimes it seems like people are looking at me and talking about me. Look, as you go about your business day to day, its quite possible people may take notice of you in one way or another.

At times people may indeed talk about you, sometimes within hearing distance. Its hard to say whether they are talking about you in a friendly way or not. Sometimes they may seem friendly; other times not, but mostly of the time, they will probably just seem neutral.

A typical psychological questionnaire will ask you questions about many of these things. If I answer yes to any of them, it gets chalked up to paranoia. I know because I have taken these tests.

If you act strange in any way, people are much more likely to stare at you and even talk about you behind your back. So if everyone who acts odd enough to get stared at is hip enough to recognize the obvious, that means they have a paranoid psychosis?

There are indeed folks out there who seem to others to behave strangely. In our society, they may be called nerds, nervous, weird, or shy. Perhaps in Japan they fit right in. There are folks who live alone, never marry and even folks who never date. Ive run across quite a few odd folks in my life who were not psychotic in any way. Most were not even mentally ill.

Now, I can assure you that these folks are going to get stared at from time to time, and people will even talk and whisper about them behind their back. If they happen to be self-aware enough to notice this, does this mean that they are paranoid?

In conclusion, there is some frightening stuff out there about pot and schizophrenia. At the moment, it should be read with caution. A judicious approach would be for adolescents to wait until they are at least 18 and possibly even older until they start using cannabis.

The available evidence indicates a rapidly declining risk towards the end of adolescence that presumably declines to zero increased risk at some point probably soon after age 18.

Even there, though, the Swedish study found that heavy users by age 18 were six times more likely to develop schizophrenia than non-users. So if you are going to use cannabis heavily, you should wait until you are at least 19, and possibly even older.

Prudent cannabis users will wait until they are at least 19 and then not use the drug every day. Those using or beginning to use the drug later in life, for instance me at age 50, surely must have zero increased risk of psychosis. Further research will presumably elucidate some onset age at which use of cannabis is not associated with any increased risk of schizophrenia.

I would also like to recommend a similar area of research: medical cannabis. There are many medical cannabis users now in various countries. Many of them are older people, as these are the ones who tend to be more injured or ill in life.

An interesting study would determine precisely how many of these medical cannabis users are developing schizophrenia. I have not heard of a single case so far. The number of cases must be quite small.

To add a personal link:

I used cannabis for about 35 years off and on since 1973.

All these psychiatric reports anger me because at my age and with my mental state, cannabis use dramatically improves my mental health. Many others report similar benefits. The notion that cannabis always or almost always causes deterioration of mental health is utter nonsense, and I am getting sick and tired of hearing of it.

Sure, its bad for some people, but look around the Net and see how many people are using it to treat anxiety disorders, eating disorders, mood disorders, etc. Does it not stretch credulity to think that all of these people are just making stuff up?

All my friends were pot smokers, and many were potheads. I also sold drugs, mostly pot, for 35 years, never got caught (neither did the vast majority of my friends) and dont regret a thing. Actually, being a dealer was kind of fun.

Not only did I never experience any psychotic symptoms while using cannabis, I have never experienced any while off of it either. Further, I have never seen one single case of psychosis attributed to cannabis, much less schizophrenia, and that includes probably thousands of pot smokers over decades, including hundreds of heavy users, many of whom used for many years.

Based on my own experiences, any risk of schizophrenia due to cannabis is not likely to be large.

I have known a few people with schizophrenia, but not many. I was good friends for about a year with a paranoid schizophrenic who heard voices much of the time until people told me to get away from him. He had only smoked pot a couple of times and did not like the drug.

I know of one schizophrenic, ill from an early age, who loved to smoke pot. But it made him a lot worse, so everyone tried to keep him away from it. Interestingly, his brother, surely at risk of schizophrenia, was a dealer and very heavy cannabis user for many years, never developed schizophrenia and was reasonably well-adjusted.


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## inval (Jan 30, 2010)

I meant to say: I mean, really, to use an argument like you're a wanker if you don't see how self evident this it is to resolve a complicated question like "Is there a link between pot and schizophrenia?


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## Drr (Jan 30, 2010)

I know a manic depressant skitzo and he is perscribed 500 mg of THC.. I'm pretty sure she said he takes that per day.. not sure what else he takes.. I might ask now..

So wheres the connection???? more like it helps.. 

The connection is like every drug.. BAD drugs make people crazy(or too much).. a WRONGLY harvested plant will do more damage then good in my eyes.. which is why it needs to be regulated... Also having it get it illegally someone who wants heavy indicas might get a sativa.. most likely harvested early since patients is far an few between and most don't know any better.... Huge problem..

having to grow illegally makes it hard to properly care for the plants and harvest at the Precise time.. ALSO a huge problem..


It's the old age myth of THC THC THC.. yeah THC... from people just not knowing.. THC is only one of many chemicals that make a bud good.. THC breaks down into other benifical chemicals..
and it's the overall ratio of all of them that makes the high..

CBD acts as a catylst for thc.. almost like it helps slow release it.. 
check this link out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs

CBN on the other hand which I believe THC breaks down into.. which is why a good late harvest, slow dry and cure makes a great smoke and even better high..
also. CBN is suposed to have anti-inflamatory effects.. which accounts for the stupify/sleepy/body stone. 
This is why letting a nice indica go longer is great for pain relief..


I think too many people try to harvest early for the up high effect and fuck up.. sativa's are genetically going to have a higher thc/cbd ratio then a heavy indica(simply because of where were originated from).. So let it finish completely.. harvesting early won't give you a better cerebral high.. Grow a strain that's known for what you want it for and let it finish..
Vice verse also.. a heavy indica won't have a sativa up high if you harvest early.. let it finish.. it genitically has a closer ratio of CBD/THC..

Environment also plays a factor in resin production...

Take it of leave it..


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## Drr (Jan 30, 2010)

inval said:


> Isn't it hilarious when someone says, "I think this site is full of wankers who know very little on various topics and want to criticise instead of offering help..." and then goes on to say something that a wanker who knows very little would say. I mean, really, to use an argument like you're a wanker if you don't see how self evident this. to resolve a complicated question like "Is there a link between pot and schizophrenia?
> 
> In fact there is no relationship between the two:
> 
> ...




great post... 
and remember the same people who convinced you about the WMD's.. don't want you to smoke cheeba.. or the younger generation to start so to speak.. they hate everything it promotes..

lets not forget genetics.. the hermie plant was always going to go hermie.. you just didn't help it by overdosing it... 

most people couldn't understand genetics if it bit them on the ass...


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## Drr (Jan 30, 2010)

Also agreed with the young developing mind should be kept away... That's why it needs to be regulated.. people will get what they need for what they need it for..


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## smallclosetgrowr (Jan 30, 2010)

INVAL to say :In fact there is no relationship between the two is crazy...my brother who is diagnosed with phsycosis got it from "Weed" and when he was in the mental Ward i went to see him and spoke to hes doctor and she said " 80% of the people in there are in there because of marijuana" some of them think they are god and some think they are eminem its fucking sad.


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## fatalack (Jan 30, 2010)

u guys are crazy weed does not make u crazy


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## gloomysmokes707 (Jan 30, 2010)

that show is for fucken idiots who believe that kinda shit... tell your mom to calm down and smoke a joint ... weed isnt gonna cause you to freak the fuck out. lol you wont. Schizophrenia is a very serious illness... and most of the people who suffer from it. got it because its in the genes... for instance my half sisters grandma has it and she would freak out and think people were out to kill her and even tried to kill her own kids after she beat them. and a mild schizophrenia has showed in recent years in my half sister... i guess anyone could get that shit but i truely believe it is caused because of the negative effect of the gene pool than smoking marijuana with high thc content. I mean really who believe that shit.


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## gloomysmokes707 (Jan 30, 2010)

ey i didnt mean your mom was an idiot by the way i re read what i wrote lol it kinda came out that way sorry dude


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## Leftorium (Jan 30, 2010)

As soon as super potent weeds like super skunk started becoming popular, in UK for example, number of instances of schizophrenia has increased. Personally I knew a guy with schizophrenia & for sure when he smoked mellow hash he was chilled but if he smoked weed he'd get aggressive etc.


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## gloomysmokes707 (Jan 30, 2010)

what are you Uk smokers doing different with their skunk that americans arent... i live in california in a marijuana sub culture ...marijuana is it in these parts... the everything and anything is marijuana... i have never even heard of this shit outside of here... i guess i dont watch stupid programs either i like to learn about factual shit.


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## gloomysmokes707 (Jan 30, 2010)

the day my doctor comes to me and tells me hey stop smoking marijuana you are at risk of schizophrenia because of the hich thc content i would first ... laugh my freaking ass off because im that high... second i would be like how is that... third i would get a second opinion lol... i smoke every single day pretty much all day ...or when ever i can. I am pretty sane... i know a thousand other people from all walks of life and age that are pretty sane after smoking marijuana habitually.


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## deflator (Jan 30, 2010)

To my understanding, ANY psychoactive can induce the first schizophrenic episode in people with the genetic predisposition. If you've gotten reallllly high, or done shrooms/LSD/mescaline etc and not completely lost it, you're probably in the clear.

My sister is schizo-affective. Weed makes her much more paranoid. She still enjoys being high, but only alone. Every person is different and must make their own evaluation as to marijuana's benefits for them versus the side-effects.


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## rocksteady6 (Jan 30, 2010)

Firstly, Inval, that took me a long time to read. I got bored and skipped the ending. 
"Its not rocket science to figure out that if you punish drugs, any drug, often enough you are going to become emotionally unstable which will eventually end up with some sort of neurological disorder. Blaming it on certain strains makes me laugh a little.
I thought i should edit this too. Allowing a schizophrenic to smoke is asking for trouble and in my eyes moronic. I have seen first hand some stuff that doesnt need to be posted here as a result. The good herb can be enjoyed like many other drugs in moderation and when it takes over your life, time for a break. Obviously medical users are a completely different story. " Post 1

"I think this site is full of wankers who know very little on various topics and want to criticise instead of offering help. I dont want to criticise your opinion but i it may interest you to visit the local psych ward and have a chat with their patients and discover how they came to be there. As you will see in my past posts i dont give advice on growing as i dont know about it. I know about this. Not all patients i agree but a lot. We dont need studies to confirm something thats completely obvious. Do we do studies on whether getting hit by a car causes injuries? "

I actually never called him a wanker. I just said that there are a lot on this site. I can be one, often if i dont get cheese on my pasta. I did offer help with my suggestion to visit the local ward and speak to their patients. I have had 2 close friends both develop schizophrenia and spent a lot, and i mean a lot of time with them and in their wards. I dont need books, and studies on mice to confirm something i know is true. I said that the continual use of drugs is going to have an effect on the brain. Any drug. It may not be effecting everyone in the same way and at the same rate. You are obviously well informed by your book collection. Yes those authors are intelligent people and everyone has their opinion. 

Here is a little case study for you. Friend of mine. Healthy boy until the age of 16, started smoking the herb and became a heavy user, age 19 diagnosed with schizophrenia. Came home on his 20th birthday and stabbed his sister to death. Now yes he may well have developed it in is life but anyone with a brain could see the effect it was having on him. He got progressively weirder and obviously to the extent he lost control of his actions or at least thought patterns.

Dont get me wrong i love a smoke too. Everything in moderation. I think its wrong for people to believe that just because one person can smoke for many years and have no adverse effeccts that they will be immune also.


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## gloomysmokes707 (Jan 30, 2010)

are we talking about marijuana still? and its side effects? i dont see long term marijuana use linked to schizophrenia. i am not a doctor or health expert niether but have 11 years of steadily smoking marijuana... every person around me smokes marijuana i dont really know anyone but kids and my grandma who dont smoke it. Its like people and their alcohol consumption in these parts of the world. Its just that simple alot of people smoke weed... if you are prone to schizophrenia ie. it runs in the family or you have paranoid thoughts or feel anxious when you smoke marijuana it doesnt take a fucken genius to say hey this isnt making me very well i think i shall stop. come on man you make marijuana out to be this cause and blame for something that is a very very serious illness ... this shit isnt a joke kiddies... pure organic marijuana is safe. I would think if marijuana was linked to the illness there would be hundreds i mean hundreds of thousands of kids commiting random acts of violance and many marijuana users being sent away to the crazy hospital for schizophrenia and delusional thoughts or actions. There is not one single proof of evidence out there that 100% organic all natural marijuana is causing kids to go off their hinges. I simply dont believe this is true. Just another pawn to scare people from using a very safe alternative medicine. If you are a schizophrenic please do not smoke marijuana. You will go completely psycho and kill us. lol


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## buttery420 (Jan 31, 2010)

> To my understanding, ANY psychoactive can induce the first schizophrenic episode in people with the genetic predisposition.


Precisely. Also people with schizophrenia are more likely to *SEEK OUT* these kind of things as a form of self-medication. I'd say smoking pot is more a _result_ of schizophrenia not vise-versa.


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## sourdieselismyonlyfriend (Jan 31, 2010)

rocksteady6 said:


> Its not rocket science to figure out that if you punish drugs, any drug, often enough you are going to become emotionally unstable which will eventually end up with some sort of neurological disorder.


I AGREE COMPLETELY as i have had my share of dependancies, and i have found that in quitting some of the other substances i have come to smoke alot more herb, and when i dont have it it can cause extreme stress. high irritibility. basically withdrawls without getting sick. just a bad as attitude that doesnt lead to anything good. but as far as schizophrenia i dont know, i havent heard anything. but im sure as rock said that its definitely not a good idea to share any kind of mind altering substance with someone with a mental disorder.. for fucs sake..


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## buttery420 (Jan 31, 2010)

Well umm marijuana actually has a lot of potential to alleviate the symptoms of anxiety disorders for example in contrast to highly addictive drugs like benzodiazapine's that have major physical effects after long-term use, ie. liver failure. Not enough research has been done into the drug to come to any major conclusion, and the studdies that have been done are so utterly ambiguous. More research must be done.


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## gloomysmokes707 (Jan 31, 2010)

i smoke marijuana for my generalized anxiety disorder and post traumatic stress... its worked miracles in my life and made me the stable family man i am today. Its not for everyone this is true. But when you talk about other dependencies ... we are talking about only marijuana here. A plant with medicinal properties... im talking about something that is not man made. You are all speaking of drugs in which are very different in properties , and mental and physical affects. Its the fuzzyness in between that lead people to believe marijuana is a harmful drug.


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## buttery420 (Jan 31, 2010)

> i smoke marijuana for my generalized anxiety disorder and post traumatic stress... its worked miracles in my life and made me the stable family man i am today. Its not for everyone this is true. But when you talk about other dependencies ... we are talking about only marijuana here. A plant with medicinal properties... im talking about something that is not man made. You are all speaking of drugs in which are very different in properties , and mental and physical affects. Its the fuzzyness in between that lead people to believe marijuana is a harmful drug.


Nice post. Good to hear it's worked well for you, it's worked really well for me as well : )
I think it has a lot to do with the western pharmaceutical industry, the trust we put in these "professionals", when they obviously have an agenda...I'm not saying in the least that medication is bad, but it's quite literally forced down our throat, the industry is so powerful. I mean the US account for 90% of Ritalin consumption.


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## gloomysmokes707 (Jan 31, 2010)

i went to the doctor he tried to give me some pills not just one but three... i believe i was prescribed xanex(panic attacks), trazadone (insomnia,restlessness), the third one started with a c and it was for my post traumatic stress and anxiety. i took em once and litarally felt like that guy in a few posts back was saying "crazy" lol never felt that way off marijuana though not even once... it confirmed in what i already knew. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Its called Marijuana. We are fortunate enough to have it as a medication here in california. thankfully


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## smallclosetgrowr (Jan 31, 2010)

its stupid to think MJ cant or doesnt lead people onto schizophrenia ...the results are out there fucking google it , not only does MJ cause schizophrenia but its also all the hydro shit going around the U.K and all the chemicals going into the weed that really fucks fucks with the smokers ...also all the kids smoking MJ b4 there brain has fully devoleped at around the age of 13-16 is another major factor into people devoloping mental ilnesses later on


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## buttery420 (Jan 31, 2010)

smallclosetgrowr said:


> its stupid to think MJ cant or doesnt lead people onto schizophrenia ...the results are out there fucking google it , not only does MJ cause schizophrenia but its also all the hydro shit going around the U.K and all the chemicals going into the weed that really fucks fucks with the smokers ...also all the kids smoking MJ b4 there brain has fully devoleped at around the age of 13-16 is another major factor into people devoloping mental ilnesses later on


People have predisposition to the illness which can be triggered by many things, one of them being pot, another isolation sometimes there is no trigger. 
Individuals who suffer from schizophrenia also frequently suffer from depression, anxiety and all sorts of emotional issues so for them it is natural to seek out a way of alleviating these symptoms. 

I agree that if a person's brain is not fully developed any chemicals consumed, including medications, such as Ritalin can mess with that child's brain chemistry for life. So i would recommend that you don't use chemicals on a regular basis if your brain is still developing but I don't dictate it because I know that a 14 year old suffering from Marjor depression may need's anti-depressants to live.


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## Drr (Feb 1, 2010)

smallclosetgrowr said:


> its stupid to think MJ cant or doesnt lead people onto schizophrenia ...the results are out there fucking google it , not only does MJ cause schizophrenia but its also all the hydro shit going around the U.K and all the chemicals going into the weed that really fucks fucks with the smokers ...also all the kids smoking MJ b4 there brain has fully devoleped at around the age of 13-16 is another major factor into people devoloping mental ilnesses later on



good post.. but those who get it would have gotten it anyway.. week minds/genetics..

I'm a depressed, ADHD, insomniac, with mild skitzo caused by childhood trama(big event plus low selfestem from being picked on alot), parents(guilt trip, munipulations), 2 head injuries, and waking up one day realizing the world is just not the happy marry jolly place momma made it out to be.... this plant is a god send.. I know for a FACT.. good pot (for me a nice kush strain) puts me right in the zone fully funtional loving every minute of the day.. I've only experienced this a few times.. not nearly as many as I would like to..

the rise in pot use (drug use in general) and skitzo reports also can be matched up with the bullshit war on terror my friend.. not to mentioned all the bullshit in food these days.. and the AIR.. people need to take their heads out of their asses and stop trying to find something to blame..
Also more and more people are getting more information (internet, media, etc) and realizing whats actually going on in this god for saken land...


The big issues are under aged use.. I started at 21, for issue reasons.. works wonders.. a developing mind should not be smoking...

Improper growing/harvesting.. HUGE issue... mainly because it's illegal and harder to grow.. and people are inexperienced..

and drum roll pleaseeeeee...

THC... the age old myth of holding THC as the main and best ingredient this plant has to offer.. THC won't give you a good high without the rest of the crew.. CBN and CDB.. CBD acts as a slow release for THC.. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J7cZf2tFCQ

they say canabinoid... not sure which one? they say more like the make up of the plant.. im assumeing CBD..


CBN is suposed to be anti-inflamatory... good for pain killer/sleep..
which THC breaks down into..


THC is 1/3 if not 1/6 or 1/10 of the battle.. who knows for sure.. This is all information i've gathered reading and from my observation over the years of smoking..

There needs to be more testing done period.. BUT the government is afraid they wouldn't be able to suppress it anymore if they find it's actually benifical..


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## Drr (Feb 1, 2010)

Let's not forget the privacy issues over in the UK which has gotten worse... you can match up that curve up also..


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## rocksteady6 (Feb 1, 2010)

God this thread is pissing me off. This will be my last post. People relying on books to give them answers are a little naive. Yes maybe smoking activates something already in the body, maybe its how its grown, the THC content...whatever. Regardless of this is still heavily linked to various mental illness. The last post was the least informative. I completely understand medical users which smoke for pain relief. I dont have a huge experience of medcial users with anxiety issues but then again (i am going to be hated for this) i think the whole 'stress' issue is a joke. Most of those people are on free hand outs from the government because they have had something happen to them in life. Yes there are some that should be supported. People with real problems but unfortunately all these government initiatives are abused and we end up with about 10% real cases and the other 90% are dipshits living of taxpayers. 
People can convince themselves however they like. Alcoholics body functions are often performed better when they are drunk. Does this mean that consuming a case of beer a day is good. Get a grip on reality. Marijuana is a great thing to enjoy but people who do it daily, without a break occasionally, are actually doing themselves and society harm. Next time i speak to a CEO that tells me he smokes all the time i may change my mind. 
People convince themselves that smoking continuosly 'makes me feel better' but really its just they dont know any diferent and are completely addicted. All drug addicts are the same. Its not until you are free from it all that your mind clears, you begin to accomplish things and actually become enjoyable to be around to people that are not bent off their faces. Smokers over time develop a group of friends that all smoke and this magnifies their belief that its all good. As i said before i love a smoke but in moderation. Dont believe everything you read. Go have a look yourself. I always enjoy a good debate by the way but this what i mention is obvious for people with the correct amount of chromosomes.


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## hightyde27 (Feb 1, 2010)

clasonde said:


> i am a mmj patient diagnosed schizo-effective. i have to 100% agree that higher THC % makes things a LOT harder; increased paranoia and other symptoms. heavy indicas with a higher amount of CBD have always mellowed me out, calmed me down and made me relax and be able to function normally, hence the mmj. 70% of Sativas are my worst enemy.



Man, I'm glad I read this post. I got my card for PTSD and pain relief, and I had noticed I had a harder time with sativa's. A big part of PTSD is paranoia; not knowing if a lump of trash on the road is going to detonate, a person standing in a window looks like they're holding a weapon, corners are my worst nightmare, the list goes on....
It looks like the Sativa's amplified all of em. Which sucks cause I like the energy it gives me but if i'm not, like the other dude said, "playing guitar or painting" I go fuckin bonkers. I was wondering if it was the weed heightening all of that ( it was a bummer cause I thought I was going to have to quit smoking)
Looks like I'm gonna be growing Kush now....
which beats the shit out of beer any day.


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## buttery420 (Feb 1, 2010)

*God this thread is pissing me off.This will be my last post. *
Because some people don't blindly believe what you have to say...

*People relying on books to give them answers are a little naive. *
I don't know what alternative to books there is...aside from the internet...where half the stuff isn't even referenced. The media hypes this sort of thing up. I saw a headline for an article a few months ago 'conclusive study finds TCH causes mental illness'. My partner and I read a little into the study and it was so vague. The head researcher even said that no conclusive evidence was found and that a link could not be proven.

*The last post was the least informative. I completely understand medical users which smoke for pain relief. I dont have a huge experience of medcial users with anxiety issues but then again (i am going to be hated for this) i think the whole 'stress' issue is a joke. Most of those people are on free hand outs from the government because they have had something happen to them in life. Yes there are some that should be supported. People with real problems but unfortunately all these government initiatives are abused and we end up with about 10% real cases and the other 90% are dipshits living of taxpayers.*
Any citations there? I didn't think so. That's such an ignorant social commentary to make, after reading it i'm not sure debating the issue at hand is even worth delving into with someone so naive to the suffering of others.
*
People can convince themselves however they like. Alcoholics body functions are often performed better when they are drunk.*
No they don't...they're in a partially brain-dead state...oxygen is deprived from the brain, people who are drunk act irrational, people who drink long-term end up with all sorts of problems including liver failure.

*Does this mean that consuming a case of beer a day is good. Get a grip on reality. marijuana is a great thing to enjoy but people who do it daily, without a break occasionally, are actually doing themselves and society harm.*
Yes pot heads are such dangerous, violent people...I think you're the one who needs to get a grip on reality. 
*
Next time i speak to a CEO that tells me he smokes all the time i may change my mind.*
CEO's tend to do a lot of cocaine...and sit on their asses most of the day...
*
People convince themselves that smoking continuosly 'makes me feel better' but really its just they dont know any diferent and are completely addicted. *
So smoking continuously does what exactly, once again I would love some citations.

*All drug addicts are the same.*
It has been determined that cannabis is not addictive.
*
Dont believe everything you read. Go have a look yourself. I always enjoy a good debate by the way but this what i mention is obvious for people with the correct amount of chromosomes.*

You haven't delved into debate whatsoever. The arguments you make are full of repetition, straw-men and logical fallacies, no proof, no citations, no evidence and on top of that, apparently you don't read books.


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## clasonde (Feb 1, 2010)

hightyde27 said:


> Man, I'm glad I read this post. I got my card for PTSD and pain relief, and I had noticed I had a harder time with sativa's. A big part of PTSD is paranoia; not knowing if a lump of trash on the road is going to detonate, a person standing in a window looks like they're holding a weapon, corners are my worst nightmare, the list goes on....
> It looks like the Sativa's amplified all of em. Which sucks cause I like the energy it gives me but if i'm not, like the other dude said, "playing guitar or painting" I go fuckin bonkers. I was wondering if it was the weed heightening all of that ( it was a bummer cause I thought I was going to have to quit smoking)
> Looks like I'm gonna be growing Kush now....
> which beats the shit out of beer any day.


sativas are awesome dont get me wrong, but just like you said, the energy is nice from a sativa but it greatly increases paranoia for me.

definitely check out some heavy indicas, they work wonders for me.


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## TPIMP (Feb 1, 2010)

One thing everyone is missing... shit happens to people you might get sick or you might not nowadays anything can happen to you. Im not saying people should wait for something bad to happen to them. They should just be ready. Just live for the moment


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## deflator (Feb 1, 2010)

rocksteady6 said:


> i think the whole 'stress' issue is a joke. Most of those people are on free hand outs from the government because they have had something happen to them in life. Yes there are some that should be supported. People with real problems but unfortunately all these government initiatives are abused and we end up with about 10% real cases and the other 90% are dipshits living of taxpayers.
> People can convince themselves however they like. Alcoholics body functions are often performed better when they are drunk. Does this mean that consuming a case of beer a day is good. Get a grip on reality. Marijuana is a great thing to enjoy but people who do it daily, without a break occasionally, are actually doing themselves and society harm.


Making wild and definitive declarations is fun on the internet isn't it? Here's another: 10% of the people on this forum know something about 90% of what they say, and the rest (you) know 10% of the facts about 90% of what they say.

My sister is very ill and cannot hold a job. It took 2 years and almost $2k in legal fees to get her $350 a month in disability. The process was hellishly difficult. Now how exactly are 90% of the people slipping through? Haha


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 1, 2010)

Hey, did you guys know that this study was funded by pharmaceutical companies?Hmmmmmmmm.They couldn't possibly have any interest in making marijuana look bad,could they?


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## rocksteady6 (Feb 1, 2010)

I know i said i wouldnt comment but i feel i should. Firstly i want to thank Anval(hope i got the spelling right) and Buttery as i have learnt things from both of you. I also should retract a large generalisation i made about 
the percentage of people abusing government hand outs as i have no proof. I think this would be hard to prove by me though, as all the people getting welfare for this have been supposedly diagnosed with something by someone.
Regarding your comments about me not reading. You are right that i dont read many books. I prefer the internet these days, not the mumbo jumbo sites, but specific factual sites. I try and read all the arguements and keep an open mind. Agreed that sometimes i am stubborn and that clouds my ability to learn more. 
I dont know if my point of view can only be appreciated if i quote various other people as i was trying to use my life experience and what i have seen with my own eyes to make up my mind but this seems to have no merit with a few. I often type too fast and do not express myself correctly. Regarding the addictions to marijuana. Marijuana/drugs of any sort, effect the CNS and anything that does that can become addictive to the body over a period of time. Your body becomes used to these manipulations and that is how addiction occurs. 
Regarding my alcoholics comment. Agreed that they cant get in a car, for example, and drive in a superior way to if they were sober but some of the side effects of not being drunk are rapid heart beat, trouble concentrating, hallucinations, disorientation and the list goes on. What i should have expressed is that these symptoms are relieved when they are drunk and therefore on the surface appear to the drunk as a good thing. I do honestly believe that heavy smokers often fall into a similar category as alcoholics. From my own and friends experience i know that there are side effects when coming off any drug so i find it hard to believe that you are saing its not addictive. 
I guess what i was trying to get across, and seemed to have failed, is that there are some bad effects that come from smoking. This site is frequented by young kids and this site if full of glorifying smoking. I continuously say many drugs can be used recreationally as well as medicinally but i do feel its naive to not understand the long term effects. Now lets go for a


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## anhedonia (Feb 1, 2010)

I started smoking regularly when I was a senior in high school, then quit for a year then went back to it for another year then came down with my illness. I could never smoke marijuana after that because it caused me terrifying debilitating panic attacks. I was a multi-instrumentalist and after sitting in jail for a year for selling I got out and found that I could no longer touch musical instruments. I studied music since I was 8 and after doing a year at 20 I was never able to enjoy music the way I used to when I got out. Infact I no longer felt like I had had any education at all. I felt dull. And it just got worse. But by the age of 24 I was diagnosed and put on the meds I take today. Which brings me to my point. With out my psych meds there is no way that I would be able to use marijuana the way I do. Becoming medical 2 1/2 years ago changed my life. Its given me a positive outlook, I feel more grounded and level headed than I have in years. Fortunately I was given disability on the first shot. Didnt have to go through any bullshit. But marijuana has given me a new outlook on life and growing has been tremendously theraputic. You dont really realize it until you wake up some morning and think, man, I really love life.


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## hightyde27 (Feb 1, 2010)

Rock steady, thanks for clarifying in your second post and acknowledging a mistake, most people won't. But let me enlighten you:

Yes I have citations, the same useless colored ribbon men have fought for for centuries, they're aren't a mark of anything other than an officers pride. Secondly, I am a private business owner, a landscaper, but as most of my right arm was lost to an IED, with accompanying nerve damage, and a TBI in 03 i do need help with pain management. And I have a helluva time just walking into a building, never mind all the corners , and blind sight lines. Point is, it's much easier for me to do those things whilst high. I work out doors because building structures are still a great source of anxiety for me, and not the kind of "omg, fluffy needs to see the vet and it's to expensive" anxiety, but a fear of dying dread that locks me in place and puts me in a cold sweat. 

And yes, people do believe too much shit they read but here's the kicker: at least they're reading! A person willing to pick up a book has a mind ripe for learning, and that in itself is it's own kind of wisdom. So if you want the intelligent crowd to hear and understand you it might go better if you didn't offend most of em. It's cool to be passionate about something but make sure all your facts are in line before you attach emotion to them or you'll just look foolish. 

Smoke on, brother. I aint hatin'. 

And has anyone considered the recent legalization may be a way for the US to combat Mexican drug cartels?


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## rocksteady6 (Feb 1, 2010)

Thanks for getting involved hightyde. It sounds like you have a few reasons for smoking. Sorry to hear your story by the way. Just to clarify one more point. I think reading is a great thing, whether it be in books or the net, but i also think that knowledge gained needs to be supplemented with life experience . I have learnt a lot more about phychiatric patients from being around them than i have from any book and thats a FACT. I am sure that many on this site would testify that they learned from the site sure, but also much was gained through their own grow. 

I did admit that i am very stubborn and also a little fiesty and yes you are probably right HT that if i want to be taken seriously then i could do with portraying my thoughts in a less offensive way. To anyone i have offended i apologise. Now about those cartels... I think i should stick to this topic for now.


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## greenjumble (Feb 1, 2010)

I haven't finished reading all of this but there are some basic things you should know as a professional in the field you are discussing. 1. most people who go inpatient for schizophrenic like symptoms are typically on something that has already circulated out of their system and only THC is showing up. 2. Some people have in fact triggered schizophrenic like symptoms that go away within a couple months. 3. Schizophrenia has a documented genetic link which means that it can be an automobile accident, a physical altercation, too much cocaine, or intense stress that sets of the family predisposition. It can be a lot of things that set it off. An often times the paranoia that comes for some people from smoking too much haze can be misdiagnosed as schizophrenia. The people who diagnose this stuff are just everyday people with different opinions about what they are seeing and different levels of experience to even know what their doing. Peace


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## Drr (Feb 2, 2010)

greenjumble said:


> I haven't finished reading all of this but there are some basic things you should know as a professional in the field you are discussing. 1. most people who go inpatient for schizophrenic like symptoms are typically on something that has already circulated out of their system and only THC is showing up. 2. Some people have in fact triggered schizophrenic like symptoms that go away within a couple months. 3. Schizophrenia has a documented genetic link which means that it can be an automobile accident, a physical altercation, too much cocaine, or intense stress that sets of the family predisposition. It can be a lot of things that set it off. An often times the paranoia that comes for some people from smoking too much haze can be misdiagnosed as schizophrenia. The people who diagnose this stuff are just everyday people with different opinions about what they are seeing and different levels of experience to even know what their doing. Peace



Good post..


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## Drr (Feb 2, 2010)

anhedonia said:


> I started smoking regularly when I was a senior in high school, then quit for a year then went back to it for another year then came down with my illness. I could never smoke marijuana after that because it caused me terrifying debilitating panic attacks. I was a multi-instrumentalist and after sitting in jail for a year for selling I got out and found that I could no longer touch musical instruments. I studied music since I was 8 and after doing a year at 20 I was never able to enjoy music the way I used to when I got out. Infact I no longer felt like I had had any education at all. I felt dull. And it just got worse. But by the age of 24 I was diagnosed and put on the meds I take today. Which brings me to my point. With out my psych meds there is no way that I would be able to use marijuana the way I do. Becoming medical 2 1/2 years ago changed my life. Its given me a positive outlook, I feel more grounded and level headed than I have in years. Fortunately I was given disability on the first shot. Didnt have to go through any bullshit. But marijuana has given me a new outlook on life and growing has been tremendously theraputic. You dont really realize it until you wake up some morning and think, man, I really love life.



Another solid post..


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## TheNatural (Feb 2, 2010)

It is very easy to prevent these symptoms in those brothers and sisters that are imbalanced and also prevents problems in those that are not.....yet....

Cannabis IS A FRUIT.

You do not eat fruit until it is RIPE.

You can eat unripened fruit and it will give you benefit, but will be sour and not be a pleasant experiance.

Same, with Cannabis.

Most I have seen have a huge problem with PATIENCE and cut EARLY.

I usually stay away from things that can cause too much debate, but this is of vital importance and especially for those people who are ready to have their first experiance with Cannabis.

Most first experiances with Cannabis, is from 25-$40 for 7 gram bagweed.

Anyone with a drive for truth and a microscope, can put the scope on most bags of Mids and see that they are EARLY HARVESTED........and I am talking the Mexican Schwag and even the more Hermie Indica dominants, that are grown outside in Cali and even Tenn.

So, when many people try this type of Cannabis for the first time...........it is sometimes, their last time and how sad is that!

They feel more of a paranoid and scattered thought pattern or Zone real bad and then think that all of us advocates........are just crazy and want to improve our own agenda.

It is not the Trees fault, just the ones that handle and harvest it.

Now, the sad thing is; " Even the expensive High Grade Amsterdam Strains that you buy on the street these days, are showing impatience in the form of early harvested fruit and sorry brothers, but the Scope does not lie and especially the feelings you get from early verses RIPE, but this type of Herb, would still be a better candidate for a first try of the plant for a new person, than the early bird junk of the Drug Trade and I am under the belief, that the Powers That Be, know that this early harvested street herb, does not give many a good experiance and they like it that way. "

This Tree, has been under prohibition since the beginning and some of you, know exactly what I mean by that.

The Tree has not forgotten how to give Man, his benefit.

Many of us however, have forgotten that it is indeed a fruit and one that must be cared for and harvested properly.......like all fruits.

Then.......she works her miracles.

PATIENCE and COMMON SENSE......will win a debate loaded with silly papers and articles and opinions.....every time.

Blessings,

Rev. TheNatural


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## Drr (Feb 4, 2010)

TheNatural said:


> It is very easy to prevent these symptoms in those brothers and sisters that are imbalanced and also prevents problems in those that are not.....yet....
> 
> Cannabis IS A FRUIT.
> 
> ...



Love the post my friend.. so true...

Except.. it's a flower not a fruit.. ;oP


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## TheNatural (Feb 5, 2010)

Except.. it's a flower not a fruit.. ;oP [/QUOTE]

Oh no, my friend.

Fruit......it always has been..... since the beginning.

We just forgot it

Blessings,

Rev. TheNatural


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## inval (Feb 5, 2010)

rocksteady6 said:


> i I did offer help with my suggestion to visit the local ward and speak to their patients. I have had 2 close friends both develop schizophrenia and spent a lot, and i mean a lot of time with them and in their wards. I dont need books, and studies on mice to confirm something i know is true. I said that the continual use of drugs is going to have an effect on the brain. Any drug. It may not be effecting everyone in the same way and at the same rate. You are obviously well informed by your book collection. Yes those authors are intelligent people and everyone has their opinion.
> 
> Here is a little case study for you. Friend of mine. Healthy boy until the age of 16, started smoking the herb and became a heavy user, age 19 diagnosed with schizophrenia. Came home on his 20th birthday and stabbed his sister to death. Now yes he may well have developed it in is life but anyone with a brain could see the effect it was having on him. He got progressively weirder and obviously to the extent he lost control of his actions or at least thought patterns.


Well actually, you're forming a general opinion based on a limited sample of anecdotal information. Real research attempts to resolve the question scientifically using a large demographically diverse sample and attempting to rule out other possible variables. Otherwise you might erroneously conclude that heavy use of weed leads to schizophrenia and homicide. Anyone with a brain could see that...

Current research in the field exploring the very link you're describing between pot use and schizophrenia does not support your contentions. And BTW, I've been working as a mental health professional for 35 years, during which I have worked in institutions.


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## rocksteady6 (Feb 5, 2010)

I did write a reply but double posted and somehow deleted it. I cant be fucked to write again as you seem set in your ways. Funny how people all of a sudden become an expert in a field during threads. My opinions are different to you thats it. I have formed my opinions by methods i have already mentioned. For someone that has 35years of experience in mental health you should know that we know fuck all about the brain so what makes you think you are so right an i am so wrong. Go talk to a neurologist about your claims of MJ not possibly effecting mental health and they will laugh at you.


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## rocksteady6 (Feb 5, 2010)

Back to nursing 90 year olds with dementia for you.


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## Straight up G (Feb 5, 2010)

rocksteady6 said:


> Firstly, Inval, that took me a long time to read. I got bored and skipped the ending.
> "Its not rocket science to figure out that if you punish drugs, any drug, often enough you are going to become emotionally unstable which will eventually end up with some sort of neurological disorder. Blaming it on certain strains makes me laugh a little.
> I thought i should edit this too. Allowing a schizophrenic to smoke is asking for trouble and in my eyes moronic. I have seen first hand some stuff that doesnt need to be posted here as a result. The good herb can be enjoyed like many other drugs in moderation and when it takes over your life, time for a break. Obviously medical users are a completely different story. " Post 1
> 
> ...


agreed, there is no way I could have read the other guys post and did not read most of yours


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## Drr (Feb 5, 2010)

"Quote:
Originally Posted by *rocksteady6*  
_Firstly, Inval, that took me a long time to read. I got bored and skipped the ending. 
"Its not rocket science to figure out that if you punish drugs, any drug, often enough you are going to become emotionally unstable which will eventually end up with some sort of neurological disorder. Blaming it on certain strains makes me laugh a little.
I thought i should edit this too. Allowing a schizophrenic to smoke is asking for trouble and in my eyes moronic. I have seen first hand some stuff that doesnt need to be posted here as a result. The good herb can be enjoyed like many other drugs in moderation and when it takes over your life, time for a break. Obviously medical users are a completely different story. " Post 1

"I think this site is full of wankers who know very little on various topics and want to criticise instead of offering help. I dont want to criticise your opinion but i it may interest you to visit the local psych ward and have a chat with their patients and discover how they came to be there. As you will see in my past posts i dont give advice on growing as i dont know about it. I know about this. Not all patients i agree but a lot. We dont need studies to confirm something thats completely obvious. Do we do studies on whether getting hit by a car causes injuries? "

I actually never called him a wanker. I just said that there are a lot on this site. I can be one, often if i dont get cheese on my pasta. I did offer help with my suggestion to visit the local ward and speak to their patients. I have had 2 close friends both develop schizophrenia and spent a lot, and i mean a lot of time with them and in their wards. I dont need books, and studies on mice to confirm something i know is true. I said that the continual use of drugs is going to have an effect on the brain. Any drug. It may not be effecting everyone in the same way and at the same rate. You are obviously well informed by your book collection. Yes those authors are intelligent people and everyone has their opinion. 

Here is a little case study for you. Friend of mine. Healthy boy until the age of 16, started smoking the herb and became a heavy user, age 19 diagnosed with schizophrenia. Came home on his 20th birthday and stabbed his sister to death. Now yes he may well have developed it in is life but anyone with a brain could see the effect it was having on him. He got progressively weirder and obviously to the extent he lost control of his actions or at least thought patterns.

Dont get me wrong i love a smoke too. Everything in moderation. I think its wrong for people to believe that just because one person can smoke for many years and have no adverse effeccts that they will be immune also."



Good points also.. BUT I do believe a solid 70% of cannabis is harvested prematurely especially illegally grown probably more like 80%.. I think that Is one of the worst things someone can do is smoke bad weed.. or a medical patient getting a high flying sativa instead of the heavy body hitting indica they need.. that will drive anyone crazy..

also your boy started at 16.. I agree.. starting too young is an issue.. the mind is still weak and underdeveloped.. easily strayed.. I didn't touch it till I was 21.. seen what it does for me and I fell in love.. Now there has been times where I have heavily relied on it as a crutch.. but everyone has their crutches in life.. 
Another issue is people lacing the buds to make more money.. I have found a little white chunk of rock in an ounce twice before... on 2 seperate occasions.. So that tells me they crushed something and sprinkled it in the bag.. Crack, coke, any white powder.. NOT clean cannabis..

Now what's stopping you from buying a cheap batch of crack, cruching it up and sprinkling it on the QP to make it look sugary AND have a bit more kick..
????? pretty sure thats what these fools were doing.. little white crack looking rocks aren't standard in bags of cannabis..

It also makes one self reflect more then usual.. This can fuck people up bad.. if your not confident with yourself or where your at in life.. could be trouble if you choose to use heavily... BUT that will happen with harder drugs also..
_


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## weedmang (Feb 5, 2010)

i had a friend who went skitzo and is now passed away r.i.p marc anyways when we first noticed he was turning wierd was especially when he smoked but it didint matter what kind of weed it was for that fact even hash and oil all had the same affects on him the only time i ever saw him act even close to normal was right before he got diagnossed and all did some lsd we wher all fucked and he was normal now that was wierd.
i have been smoking for about 18 years now on a dailly basis (all day everyday) 
premature weed mouldy weed old weed i smoked them all lol and im still smarter and socially functionable than most.
but i will admit that weed does have amajor affect on my motivation really dont wanna do shit most of the time unless its smoking weeed


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## anhedonia (Feb 5, 2010)

My doctor thinks Im getting amotivational syndrome.


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## bigbird87 (Feb 6, 2010)

I'm from the midwest where the weed is not so great, but visited my buddy in Cali and we picked up some nice sativas at the dispensary (bc good sativa is hard to come by around here). This was the most potent weed I had ever smoked...one and done. Of course I didn't stop and we smoked for hours. I became EXTREMELY paranoid and had some weird shit going on. 

If people with previous chemical imbalances were to do this, I could definitely see them getting crazy ideas in their head. Schizophrenia? Most definitely. 
I have had some extremely crazy experiences smoking weed where I felt stuck i repetition, thought I had gone crazy and it would be like that forever. Although admittedly both times it has happened was about a week after a strong psychedelic experience and is always triggered smoking at the same friend's house.


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## KakKakKax (Feb 6, 2010)

I am bipolar and sativas put me in a place that was close to how I felt when I was manic, and it felt great when I was manic! Its nice because I get to feel crazy and creative but then it wears off and doesn't ruin my life. 

I also went through a period of depression where I was smoking a lot of schwag, I don't believe it was the cause but I believe if the weed had been medicinal grade it wouldn't have kept me in the hole to the same degree. 

anecdotal food for thought.


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## eza82 (Feb 6, 2010)

" are you guys talkin about me ??"


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## rocksteady6 (Feb 6, 2010)

eza82 said:


> " are you guys talkin about me ??"


I dont think so. I wanted to see if anvel wanted to copy and paste another essay to this thread from someone else. His paraphrasing is consistent with various websites. I actually gave you some credit for your rediculously long post. I am pretty drunk and behaving in a silly manor but wish i could give you, anvel, a hum dinger in person.


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## clasonde (Feb 6, 2010)

i am sorry rock steady but i am a 22 year old male who receives social security. first off, i hope you dont burn in hell for those bullshit claims; 10% of people are real cases 90% are fake. well fuck you dude. i know countless people of all ages who go through hell to get social security because of how strict the system is. its not "just sit back and collect" its,"hey i get $700 a month, i am going to have to live on this amount of money for the rest of my life because of an injury at work/military/disability." not being able to support yourself because of some disability sucks, i've met thousands of people who _rely_ on social security to live, try living on a couple hundred dollars a month and food stamps and then maybe you'd understand its definitely NOT a privilege.


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## rocksteady6 (Feb 6, 2010)

clasonde said:


> i am sorry rock steady but i am a 22 year old male who receives social security. first off, i hope you dont burn in hell for those bullshit claims; 10% of people are real cases 90% are fake. well fuck you dude. i know countless people of all ages who go through hell to get social security because of how strict the system is. its not "just sit back and collect" its,"hey i get $700 a month, i am going to have to live on this amount of money for the rest of my life because of an injury at work/military/disability." not being able to support yourself because of some disability sucks, i've met thousands of people who _rely_ on social security to live, try living on a couple hundred dollars a month and food stamps and then maybe you'd understand its definitely NOT a privilege.


Hello there C.... Not apologising to this post. Good to read another immature post from you. Sadly i am an agnostic so hell means sweet F..! Do you know why it's so hard for you to get SS? Because of all the people screwing your system... I dont need to use profanities in this instance as if you actually read my posts you would undertand that i actually support genuine medical users. I would happily give medical users 5 times what the government does, as they deserve it, if it wasnt for the dipshit hypochondriacs that ruin it for others. Plenty of disabled people out there working too! Whats your issue, not to be rude? By the way i know countless people who have all sorts of issues who actually work for a living and dont live of us. People who are not medicating themselves.....


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## anhedonia (Feb 7, 2010)

Another ass hat. 

All you stated was your opinion. 

If it was up to people like you, I would be living homeless, starving and psychotic and would probably die if I were alone in the city. You clearly have no clue what that $700 dollars a month means to me or to other disabled people. 700/month! I get a place to live and food and medication.(psych pills only) Thats it. The only thing I really like about it is that I can be a full time gardener and can pursue different hobbies. Its theraputic.

Before I used to make $500/wk doing heavy construction. Got diagnosed and was put on disability almost 4 years ago. I turn 31 next month. I dont live the quality of life I did before my life was forever changed but its something new, Im a completely different person and I do different things and I like it. So who knows, Ill probably go back to school and finish my education. Its been years since Ive been. Or maby masonry again, good money and I love the hard work.


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## clasonde (Feb 7, 2010)

i do want to apologize rocksteady6, after posting I realized I came off very hostile and a little over the top. Your right, I didn't read any post-posts(?) and completely neglected what else you said; basically saw the post on the first page and hit reply. The disabilities I suffer from are: PTSD, Social Anxiety, Bi-Polar I, Schizo-affective disorder, and partial insomnia. Luckily with the "cycle of life", marijuana has helped me 100%.

to anhedonia:
i know exactly what you mean, its shocking once you realize the change of pace and lifestyle moves. glad your thinking about going back to school, i am currently pursuing my bachelor's in the foundations of business and the performing arts.


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## laceygirl (Feb 7, 2010)

rocksteady6 said:


> I think this site is full of wankers who know very little on various topics and want to criticise instead of offering help. I dont want to criticise your opinion but i it may interest you to visit the local psych ward and have a chat with their patients and discover how they came to be there. As you will see in my past posts i dont give advice on growing as i dont know about it. I know about this. Not all patients i agree but a lot. We dont need studies to confirm something thats completely obvious. Do we do studies on whether getting hit by a car causes injuries?


I am going to weigh in on this and say, I have to agree with Rock a little... My dad is a retired psychiatrist and he worked in a mental institution for 20 years, I could tell you some stories thats for sure... The THC v's CDB arguement should be researched a lot more before a standard educated opinion can be formed, Schizophrenia has so many different levels and different people show different symptoms, its amazing to think how quickly we can pigeon hole patients into these groups... Marijuana affects the brain and perception, plain and simple.. For schizophrenic patients it can be an absolute nightmate but this is really the first time, I've heard anyone break down the two different types of highs...

Very interesting and food for thought... We also have to remember that Schizophrenia as far as we know is hereditary... This brings into the equation whether THC can cause it... More research is needed... 

I've seen Alcohol do some pretty fucked up things to people. And at my dads hospital there is no ward out there for Marijuana abusers but there's fucking three for alcohol abusers...Why? Do the math...

I've been smoking indoor weed everyday for nearly 20 years, I don't feel any ill affects honestly except for a little short term memory loss...I am switching to a vaporizer as I am more concerned about carcinogenics and cancer than Schizophrenia...

Lets mention how some people have a greater tolerance to drugs than others? These are natural phenomena that occur in nature, I've got a friend who smokes my weed and it doesn't affect her, it offends the shit out of me, but give her one drink of alcohol and she becomes a blithering idiot... Different strokes for different folkes...

There isn't a right answer yet, cause we haven't asked all the questions....


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## rocksteady6 (Feb 8, 2010)

anhedonia said:


> Another ass hat.
> 
> All you stated was your opinion.
> 
> ...


What's an ass hat? I might use that one. Listen anhedonia i support medical users but have my reservations about medicating cetain conditions with weed. Why dont you go and read the whole thread and get back to me. Even just the post above yours. There is actually very little about the brain which is fact so opinions is all we can have. Apologies if i make you mad.


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## super2200 (Feb 8, 2010)

I think this is too much like the people who got "marijuana is the gateway drug" nonsense started. Some people have mental conditions already and have no business doing ANYTHING including cigarettes, alcohol or chocolate for that matter, it could be anything that sets a mental person off. I apologize for being so simplistic and please don't take offense, I am just trying to point out that some people can go entire lives and not have any ISSUES with the way they are and the way the process info and emotions until they abuse any kind of drug. Weed by nature already can make someone with no tolerance paranoid so this is to be expected not a big surprise at all and shouldn't need studies as its something that cant really be proven. For one someone with paranoid feelings could be that way because they have done a lot of fucked up things in their lives and the paranoia is actually just guilt. The only link I see here is that weed can make you paranoid but that dont mean it makes you schitzo these people are already that way from things that happen in life and the way the feel about it. Weed just intensifies things and some people have no business smoking it. Other people are the same way with alcohol


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## TheNatural (Feb 8, 2010)

super2200 said:


> I think this is too much like the people who got "marijuana is the gateway drug" nonsense started. Some people have mental conditions already and have no business doing ANYTHING including cigarettes, alcohol or chocolate for that matter, it could be anything that sets a mental person off. I apologize for being so simplistic and please don't take offense, I am just trying to point out that some people can go entire lives and not have any ISSUES with the way they are and the way the process info and emotions until they abuse any kind of drug. Weed by nature already can make someone with no tolerance paranoid so this is to be expected not a big surprise at all and shouldn't need studies as its something that cant really be proven. For one someone with paranoid feelings could be that way because they have done a lot of fucked up things in their lives and the paranoia is actually just guilt. The only link I see here is that weed can make you paranoid but that dont mean it makes you schitzo these people are already that way from things that happen in life and the way the feel about it. Weed just intensifies things and some people have no business smoking it. Other people are the same way with alcohol


Allot of truth, to these words.

Some, always want to put the blame, were it DOES NOT belong.

Self responsibility and a true understanding of the growing and harvesting of this Fruit Tree, will limit the feelings, that are sometimes associated with first time or occasional users.

This Tree, will enhance ones feelings for sure and for those with high I.Q., they will definately have to seperate their dellusions from reality and understand how these Trees will effect them, on a personnel basis.

Once again, correct harvesting of these Trees, will prevent most symptoms of Paranoia and disassociation ect.

Blessings my friend,

Rev. TheNatural


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## bigbird87 (Feb 8, 2010)

Just stumbled upon an recent article referring to psychosis and thc/lack of cbd. Doesn't say much more than what has already been said here, but thought I'd post it anyways...
Its lack of balance that makes skunk cannabis do harm


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## TheNatural (Feb 8, 2010)

bigbird87 said:


> Just stumbled upon an recent article referring to psychosis and thc/lack of cbd. Doesn't say much more than what has already been said here, but thought I'd post it anyways...
> Its lack of balance that makes skunk cannabis do harm


 
EXACTLY! My friend.

Those of us that have awakened to a deeper knowledge of these Trees, have got to take the responsibility to educate " those that will actually listen " on how to properly take care of these Trees and properly Breed them also.

Amsterdam Strains are too imbred and too much emphasis has been put on T.H.C. and that is due to the lack of knowledge that is being freely shared, like so many other things in life.

A child can hear and understand truth and there are allot of deeper things to understand concerning this Tree and proper Harvesting and Breeding are one of the most important for sure.

Nature creates balance and man tries to make it better and it usually starts to fall on its nose after a while.....genetically....Hmmm?

It is all about " Proper " education and then everyone can benefit from this Fruit Tree and enjoy their first and every experiance that they have with it.

Nice Info.

Be Blessed,

Rev. TheNatural


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## inval (Feb 8, 2010)

rocksteady6 said:


> I dont think so. I wanted to see if anvel wanted to copy and paste another essay to this thread from someone else. His paraphrasing is consistent with various websites. I actually gave you some credit for your rediculously long post. I am pretty drunk and behaving in a silly manor but wish i could give you, anvel, a hum dinger in person.


Rockfuckhead, you are an idiot who just says the first thing that comes into your mind without filtering, knowledge, logic or facts. All of my postings are my own. If you can't follow it or get bored, it's because you can't put in the intellect or the effort.

Warning, we're about to use logic here, get ready rockfuckhead. This isn't about your, "I just think it's true, therefore it must be because I'm rockfuckhead who knows everything without recourse to research or scientific literature" approach. Let me summarize it for your pea brain:

Myth: Marijuana Can Cause Permanent Mental Illness. Among adolescents, even occasional marijuana use may cause psychological damage. During intoxication, marijuana users become irrational and often behave erratically.

Fact: There is no convincing scientific evidence that marijuana causes psychological damage or mental illness in either teenagers or adults. Some marijuana users experience psychological distress following marijuana ingestion, which may include feelings of panic, anxiety, and paranoia. Such experiences can be frightening, but the effects are temporary. With very large doses, marijuana can cause temporary toxic psychosis. This occurs rarely, and almost always when marijuana is eaten rather than smoked. Marijuana does not cause profound changes in people's behavior.

Iverson, Leslie.Long-term effects of exposure to cannabis. Current Opinion in Pharmacology 5(2005): 69-72.
Weiser and Noy.Interpreting the association between cannabis use and increased risk of schizophrenia. Dialogues in Clincal Neuroscience 1(2005): 81-85.

"Cannabis use will impair but not damage mental health." London Telegraph. 23 January 2006.
Andreasson, S. et al.Cannabis and Schizophrenia: A Longitudinal study of Swedish Conscripts, The Lancet 2 (1987): 1483-86.

Now do you get it, Rockfuckhead?


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## rocksteady6 (Feb 8, 2010)

Rockfuckhead gets what you are saying but i dont agree with you. It seems you are the one that is struggling to deal with that. Now that we have insulted each other maybe we can move on. You are obviously very intelligent and well resourced but as i have said previously how can you make such definate statements about neurological disorders when we know so little about the brain. Yes some of my past posts were drunken dribble, and someone of your intellect doesnt need to bother responding to that but dont keep quoting various people or books who support your arguement as there are many out there that would say that its not correct. It seems that this thread is full of claims of genetics being a major cause, which is of course true, but maybe, just maybe someone may have lived their entire life and not show any signs of their illness developing should they not have smoked copious amounts of green. I do like your responses by the way.

I said before i have learned from you so maybe have a read of this link and tell me that you are definate about what you say. 
http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/002684.html

I dont agree with what he says about heroin by the way. But you get my jist.


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## bigbird87 (Feb 8, 2010)

I dont know much about CBD, maybe somebody out there can educate me...

Are there reliable for testing CBD & THC content out there? 

How can you increase a plants CBD? Is it all genetic? What types of strains have higher CBD contents?


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## rocksteady6 (Feb 9, 2010)

Where is inval? Rockfuckhead wants to hear what he has to say. I didnt really get what you were quoting at the end of your last post with the various authors and books. Sorry i read it again and must have missed it the first time .


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## Mr.Luso (Feb 9, 2010)

study's have proven that the consumption of mj can in fact aggravate the symptoms of *SCHIZOPHRENIA in some cases but only in people that have it or are in risk of developing it.
*probably do to the fact that mj can make you a bit paranoid but as state above people with mental problems should not take any kind of drugs or alcohol.

everything that messes with the chemical balance of the brain or body will have secondary effects that may or may not trigger some disease. those effects depend on the person and those effects cannot be generalized.


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## TheNatural (Feb 9, 2010)

bigbird87 said:


> I dont know much about CBD, maybe somebody out there can educate me...
> 
> Are there reliable for testing CBD & THC content out there?
> 
> How can you increase a plants CBD? Is it all genetic? What types of strains have higher CBD contents?


The easiest way to increase the CBD in any Cannabis, is too let it get Ripe, " Trichomes need to be Amber. "

Indica Cannabis, will have typically more possibility for higher CBN content, than Sativa, however, Sativa Genetics will give you a happy and euphoric/energetic high and especially when grown with extra UV lights in order to supply what sativas would naturally get on the equator and that is more intense UV.

Original Landrace Strains had their natural balance from nature and as usuall, " man has to try and make it better and does not. "

Oh yes, captive breeding has increased certain genetic immunities in these Trees as too as usuall, " help conveniance man, " but they sure are not as good or as powerful as good landrace Cannabis, that has been bred appropriately and given the spectrums " especially UV that is needed for optimal performance and medicinal quality. "

Yes, it sounds very impressive to hear things like " resistance to everything this Strain, with a 25% T.H.C. rating, ect. ect. and short flowering ect. ect.

However, learning these Trees and going the extra mile would have just as easily, kept the pure Strains going, but man is LAZY and wants to be convenianced, so he changes things and it all sounds good for a while and all seems to work out, until of course, it does not.

Now, I am seeing more and more strains, taking as long to flower as they would have if they were still pure in their original genetics from nature.

Why, the last few Satva Hybrids from Holland that I ordered, took 17 to 18 weeks to get not even all the way Amber.

So now the conveniance is slipping away and in the end, we will be stuck with a bunch of man made genetics that are no longer conveniant as they are just as prone to take long as anything in the wild ect. ect.

So what has been really accomplished and anyone with even a little common sense, should know exactly what I mean.

If my Super Silver Haze " just example " is taking as much time and effort as lets say " a pure Mexican Sativa, " then not only am I not getting convenianced, but not getting a good balance of chemicals either, because of the ongoing inbreeding of Cannabis and would have been better off growing a pure Mexican and getting a nice clear and balanced High that lasts hours and hours and not some silly high that lasts two hours and then leaves you like it never was there.

As these Trees, start being grown more and more and The Spirit continues to fill people with common sense, they will see that all of these silly papers and figures are exactly that,......silly.

Regardless, you want the best CBD content and the best experiance.....let it get Ripe.

Common sense, is like an old shoe.....you cannot wear it out and nobody wants to borrow it, LOL.

Blessings,

Rev. TheNatural


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## The Grinch (Feb 10, 2010)

I was under the impression that thc degraded (oxidised) into cbn, not cbd.

"Cannabinol (CBN) is the primary product of THC degradation, and there is usually little of it in a fresh plant. CBN content increases as THC degrades in storage, and with exposure to light and air. It is only mildly psychoactive. Its affinity to the CB2 receptor is higher than for the CB1 receptor" - thats from wikipedia which is a fount of misinformation, but i've read it on multiple sites.

I was under the impression that a plant needed to be bread for high cbd content, in the same way that plants have been bread for high thc content.

Hemp has a relatively high CBD content (which is nonpsychoactive) and a very low or no thc levels.

I've read that the brain of a schizophrenic contains many areas of little to no activity - as in major damage - and that CBD has been shown to encourage brain development/regrowth.
I'll try and find sources and post when I do.


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## Drr (Feb 10, 2010)

The Grinch said:


> I was under the impression that thc degraded (oxidised) into cbn, not cbd.
> 
> "Cannabinol (CBN) is the primary product of THC degradation, and there is usually little of it in a fresh plant. CBN content increases as THC degrades in storage, and with exposure to light and air. It is only mildly psychoactive. Its affinity to the CB2 receptor is higher than for the CB1 receptor" - thats from wikipedia which is a fount of misinformation, but i've read it on multiple sites.
> 
> ...


I do agree here.. this is what I have picked up in my research.. and the CBN is responsible for a anti-inflamatory effect.. the sleepy dumbfounded body stone.. which degrades from THC I beleive.. Which is why a good slow dry and cure is essential.. helps break down the THC for a better high in my opinion.. (to each their own) and also it lets the nutes and cloryphl break down.. smoother smoke.. 

The CBD I beleive is the rest of the bud left the calyx maybe?? not sure.. 

Or quite possibly a genetic CBD/THC combo..
not sure.. maybe CBD is the clear tric, cloudy is THC, and amber is CBN... BUT who really knows???? 

WE NEED MORE RESEARCH...


And the biggest problem I think is harvesting early..


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## inval (Feb 15, 2010)

Additional Research on the Relationship Between Marijuana and Schizophrenia
A recent British study led by Dr. Martin Frisher of Keele University examined the records of 600,000 patients aged between 16 and 44, and failed to find any link whatsoever. http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/09/02/cannabis-schizophrenia.html

Many of the studies that have tried to show a link between cannabis and schizophrenia have themselves been called into question by other researchers, such as the 2008 study published in the Lancet and popularly cited, and which Psychiatrist Dr. Lester Grinspoon Associate Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School critiques in the winter/spring edition of O&#8217;Shaughnessys
http://www.pcmd4u.org/OShaughnessys/Backgrounder_files/Grinspoon on Schizophrenia.pdf


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## rocksteady6 (Feb 15, 2010)

inval said:


> Additional Research on the Relationship Between Marijuana and Schizophrenia
> A recent British study led by Dr. Martin Frisher of Keele University examined the records of 600,000 patients aged between 16 and 44, and failed to find any link whatsoever. http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/09/02/cannabis-schizophrenia.html
> 
> Many of the studies that have tried to show a link between cannabis and schizophrenia have themselves been called into question by other researchers, such as the 2008 study published in the Lancet and popularly cited, and which Psychiatrist Dr. Lester Grinspoon Associate Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School critiques in the winter/spring edition of OShaughnessys
> http://www.pcmd4u.org/OShaughnessys/Backgrounder_files/Grinspoon on Schizophrenia.pdf


Inval for all your quotes and research there is just as many against it. Do yourself a favour and stop being so stubborn. 

_A meta-analysis suggests that cannabis use is associated with a 40% increased risk of psychosis in later life._
* Leslie L. Iversen, PhD*


Lets just agree old Leslie is smarter than both of us and if he thinks it "could" be possible then maybe you should. He has analysed various studies and come to his conclusions along with many others, something you seem to fail to do. Your posts are the same.


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## inval (Feb 16, 2010)

rocksteady6 said:


> Lets just agree old Leslie is smarter than both of us and if he thinks it "could" be possible then maybe you should. He has analysed various studies and come to his conclusions along with many others, something you seem to fail to do. Your posts are the same.


You're right:

Cannabis Less Harmful Than Aspirin, Says Scientist
By Marie Woolf, Chief Political Correspondent, The Independent

"Cannabis is a safer drug than aspirin and can be used long-term without serious side effects, says a book by a leading Oxford scientist.

Cannabis is a safer drug than aspirin and can be used long-term without serious side effects, says a book by a leading Oxford scientist.

The Science of Marijuana, by Dr Leslie Iversen of Oxford University's department of pharmacology, found many "myths" surrounding marijuana use, such as extreme addictiveness, or links with mental illness or infertility are not supported by science.

He also found cannabis is an inherently "safe drug" which does not lead to cancer, infertility, brain damage or mental illness."


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## rocksteady6 (Feb 16, 2010)

Look I am not entering into the debate about aspirin and it's possible detriments but I will be back. Mr mrs has hijacked the comp and I can't write properly on my phone. Hey I have an idea anval. Why don't you find a research done that contadicts your beliefs and at least I will respect that you do indeed read all material. If you say it's not possible then my assumption of your one sided stubborn view is correct.


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## TheNatural (Feb 16, 2010)

Were Cannabis that has been raised and properly harvested correctly,  can take an ole sour puss and put a smile to their face.

Unripened Cannabis, will many times however, take whatever emotion or imbalances are going on in a person and intensify them.

It is very important for especially those that have imbalances, too make sure that they are somewhat centered in their thoughts and not concentrating on anything negative, when they consume Cannabis and especially, the street herb or any Tree that has not been fully ripened.

No paper needed for this common sense imperical data.

If you have common sense and are observant of yourself and especially others, it does not take musch too have a greater understanding of these Trees and the proper interaction, between them and US.

Now, if you want to break all of this down into some kind of scientific reasoning and have all of the numbers and words right and take the opinion of those in Science that have usually one or more things too loose or do not even know, what they are looking at as they themselves cannot allot of the time, seem to see past their logic and look at it from a little more of a " feeling, " standpoint......that is fine.

However, the greatest discoveries came from imperical data and common sense from those in particular Hobbies, that actually pay attention to their own eyes and thoughts and sees all they need to see on their own, from the benefit, that there common sense applications, have provided their Trees or animals or model car collection....ect.

For me, I could care less about most of their studies as my ancestors could care less, but yet, they found out quickly, the importance of letting Fruit Get Ripe and never needed a lab or paper to figure it out.

Nothing beats a good intuition, but it takes time to develope and some are just born with it.

Blessings,

Rev. TheNatural


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## JohnnyGreenthumb (Feb 16, 2010)

All we have to do is use a little common sense here.No I do not have proof on any of this.IF you have a MENTAL disorder if you use a cerebral modifier like THC.it is only common sense to understand that yes in a small amount of people it could have opposite or aggravated response to a CHEMICAL EMBALANCE being aggravated in the brain (I know I am comparing peas and carrots here but Cannabis is a form of medication and like ALL meds they have different effects on different people.Example the person that has ADD and take meds to correct this will have a different and sometimes opposite reaction of the drug of a person without.The HUMAN Body is Different in all of us.so I could see how In a small majority that it could raise reaction. I do use cannabis ALOT to help with my pain... and have smoke some strains that made me feel Damn I should get Home.My wife will tell me which one not to get because it makes her paranoid..LOL


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## Drr (Feb 17, 2010)

TheNatural said:


> Were Cannabis that has been raised and properly harvested correctly, can take an ole sour puss and put a smile to their face.
> 
> Unripened Cannabis, will many times however, take whatever emotion or imbalances are going on in a person and intensify them.
> 
> ...



AMEN.. couldn't have posted better myself..


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## Drr (Feb 17, 2010)

JohnnyGreenthumb said:


> All we have to do is use a little common sense here.No I do not have proof on any of this.IF you have a MENTAL disorder if you use a cerebral modifier like THC.it is only common sense to understand that yes in a small amount of people it could have opposite or aggravated response to a CHEMICAL EMBALANCE being aggravated in the brain (I know I am comparing peas and carrots here but Cannabis is a form of medication and like ALL meds they have different effects on different people.Example the person that has ADD and take meds to correct this will have a different and sometimes opposite reaction of the drug of a person without.The HUMAN Body is Different in all of us.so I could see how In a small majority that it could raise reaction. I do use cannabis ALOT to help with my pain... and have smoke some strains that made me feel Damn I should get Home.My wife will tell me which one not to get because it makes her paranoid..LOL




and another good post.. everyone is different and affected differently by everything..


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## mycotoxin (Mar 4, 2011)

rocksteady6 said:


> I think this site is full of wankers who know very little on various topics and want to criticise instead of offering help. I dont want to criticise your opinion but i it may interest you to visit the local psych ward and have a chat with their patients and discover how they came to be there. As you will see in my past posts i dont give advice on growing as i dont know about it. I know about this. Not all patients i agree but a lot. We dont need studies to confirm something thats completely obvious. Do we do studies on whether getting hit by a car causes injuries?


 Heav-yy!! Anyway, my contribution is this: Certain strains can make some people excessively paranoid or anxious...There are certain starins Ive smoked in the past that have made me feel like I was on some mild acid; Sensi Star was one of em. Nice smoke but I'd avoid it now as it tripped me out so much. If you are a worrier at times like I am indicas can be a more relaxing smoke but I find no matter how medicating these strains feel I find they drain me of any motivation after smoking them for a few days. I prefer to smoke indica sativa hybrid strains as you get a more balanced high, cerebral but sedating aswell. Pure sativa strains tend to make me think way too much and indicas turn me into a zombie...But, I do love that about cannabis. Its so versatile! Theres a smoke for every mood it seems.


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