# Will The Presidency Lift Federal Prohibition?



## NuteGreenwitch (Nov 4, 2008)

Got some questions for those that are following marijuana laws more than myself.

How likely is it that Obama and Democrats work together to lift federal prohibition on marijuana? Do you think there will be much priority given to this by the House and Senate? I am aware of Barney Frank's bill, but really - is it likely we will see any major movement on this within the 1st two years of Obama's sitting?

Do you think that 13 medical marijuana states will ultimately send a message to the feds and will soften the federal laws at all? I hate to sound so bitter about my country, but I am at the point where the legalization of marijuana is close to the top of my priorities as far as selecting candidates for office. I know politicians promise the world in a golden cup to get elected, but are you confident enough in the Democratic party that you feel it is a possibility in your lifetime you will see marijuana legalized both in states and federally? Do you think Democrats have it in them to fight for you rights in this regard?

I know the government moves at a turtle's pace, but do YOU think we have enough concerned American voters to impact how fast the ball gets rolling on ANY true initiative to legalize pot?


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## skunkbud (Nov 11, 2008)

it was wrong to make it ilegal any ways its unconstitutional


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## bradlyallen2 (Nov 11, 2008)

I think Obama will look at this from the perspective of how Marijuana laws disproportionately penalize people from the lower socieoeconimic parts of our society (black people). These are the people who get crap ass court appointed lawyers and do time for trivial shit like getting high. In that regard I think Obama has the presence of mind to arrive at the conclusion that marijuana prohibition is pointless. Legalization will equal political suicide so I think what you will see is federal law that recognizes medical marijuana and minimizes penalties for simple non-medical posession at the federal level. I also think he will reduce law enforcement subsidies for marijuana enforcement. This puts the burden of paying for enforcing the law and defining penalties at the state level with minimal federal support. Obama saves face as not being to soft on drugs and the states get to say "if the feds don't fund prohibition we are not going to enforce it". Everyone wins. Look for this to unevil circa late 2009 once the economic crisis is dealt with.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 11, 2008)

I'll give a nice clean and simple answer. No. 

It's a non issue right now. Neither candidate had to talk about weed on the trail. Politicians almost always take the path of least resistance. So,..... no. 



out.


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## illusionz1 (Nov 11, 2008)

I see it as this... even IF fed laws are reduced... that still doesn't immediatly effect state laws... and by the time that would happen, we'll be voting again IF it ever did happen... but like Cracker said... with the ecomomy goin to shit, war in iraq, bullshit oil prices we delt with and so on and so on... it's just not an issue that has priority written on it! It'll prolly just move at stoner speed!!

Thats my take on it... anything that sounds too good to be true, usually is! There's always catches!


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## CrackerJax (Nov 11, 2008)

Meanwhile Federal (Feral?) Politicians are exempt from drug tests!! So the ones making the decisions that affect everyone get to self medicate, but the poor bastard Joe Plumber submits before he can fix your faucet. Gawd do I LUV this country!! 


out.


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## skunkbud (Nov 12, 2008)

not only that they could tax it and still drive prices down, any ways has any one seen marlboro greens  cant wait for them to come out hopfuly in my lifetime


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## CrackerJax (Nov 12, 2008)

skunkbud said:


> not only that they could tax it and still drive prices down, any ways has any one seen marlboro greens  cant wait for them to come out hopfuly in my lifetime


Funny you should mention that . Back in the 70's I was just a kid and my Uncle worked for brown& Williamson tobacco Co. he told me they were all ready to roll an entire wing of assembly production for weed. It was very close to happening. Very. DAMMIT!! 


out.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Nov 12, 2008)

That would be awesome, but wouldnt mass production cut down on the quality of your mj 100's, better yet wouldnt other things get into youre reefer before harvesting such great quantities.It would be horrible in a way though because the corporate bastards would be all over it and make their margin on it and not even be smokers.
Alas the sad state of the world.


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## skunkbud (Nov 12, 2008)

whish it would of


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## ElBarto (Nov 12, 2008)

From StopTheDrugWar.com (posted Thu, 11/06/2008)


This is the Obama campaign&#8217;s response to emails about medical marijuana:


Dear Friend,

Thank you for contacting Obama for America to inquire about the Senator's position on allowing severely ill patients to use marijuana for medical purposes.

Many states have laws that condone medical marijuana, but the Bush Administration is using federal drug enforcement agents to raid these facilities and arrest seriously ill people. Focusing scarce law enforcement resources on these patients who pose no threat while many violent and highly dangerous drug traffickers are at large makes no sense. Senator Obama will not continue the Bush policy when he is president.

Thank you again for contacting us.

Sincerely,

Obama for America​

Obama has a lot on his plate so I don't think you can expect a lot of action on this issue at the federal level. However, if he fulfills his promise, that alone will be a big step forward.


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## slackjack (Nov 12, 2008)

This is how I think it will go down:
Obama puts some reasonable supreme court justices in place
Fed's raid a care clinic
High Times or some other advocacy group pays for a hell of a lawyer
The case goes infront of the supreme court
The supreme court decides in favor of state's rights on the issue and sets a precedent protecting care givers.


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## NuteGreenwitch (Nov 12, 2008)

slackjack said:


> This is how I think it will go down:
> Obama puts some reasonable supreme court justices in place
> Fed's raid a care clinic
> High Times or some other advocacy group pays for a hell of a lawyer
> ...


Ok, what you say comes the closest to what I envision taking place, ultimately. But, let's say it falls down like this... will the Supreme Court be making a ruling for said state only, or will their decision guarantee protection for all states? I know this is all hypothetical anyway, but I live on hyptheticals. 

Now then, do you think the Supreme Court would favor more restrictions on what constitutes a "true, deserving" medical marijuana patient? I mean, if they give in one sense, do you think they taketh in another sense?


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## LowRider82 (Nov 12, 2008)

NuteGreenwitch said:


> Ok, what you say comes the closest to what I envision taking place, ultimately. But, let's say it falls down like this... will the Supreme Court be making a ruling for said state only, or will their decision guarantee protection for all states? I know this is all hypothetical anyway, but I live on hyptheticals.
> 
> Now then, do you think the Supreme Court would favor more restrictions on what constitutes a "true, deserving" medical marijuana patient? I mean, if they give in one sense, do you think they taketh in another sense?


depends on how the case i believe. not positive. i guess it also depends on how the case is presented to. i may be wrong.


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## JNup (Nov 13, 2008)

i think he will cut the fed raids as him helping the economy. Waits of funds


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## longlivemtb (Nov 13, 2008)

CrackerJax said:


> I'll give a nice clean and simple answer. No.
> 
> It's a non issue right now. Neither candidate had to talk about weed on the trail. Politicians almost always take the path of least resistance. So,..... no.
> 
> ...


CrackerJax absolutely right. Obama isn't going to touch the issue of marijuana. I think we would be lucky if he did anything by the 3rd or 4th year. We have so much other shit going on with the country, that marijauan is probably the last thing on his mind. depending on what he decides to do with the economy we could only be waiting a few years, or nothing might happen durring his term.


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## bradlyallen2 (Nov 13, 2008)

LowRider82 said:


> depends on how the case i believe. not positive. i guess it also depends on how the case is presented to. i may be wrong.


 Supreme court is the highest law in the land, once they decide on a topic thats it as long as it pertains to FEDERAL law. State supreme court decides in the case of state law. If the 2 bodies are in opposition the federal ruling wins the day ni theory. Of course states can opt no to change their laws so they are consistent with federal law which is largely a symolic gesture.


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## bradlyallen2 (Nov 13, 2008)

slackjack said:


> This is how I think it will go down:
> Obama puts some reasonable supreme court justices in place
> Fed's raid a care clinic
> High Times or some other advocacy group pays for a hell of a lawyer
> ...


 No I don't think it will happen like this at all. Their is nothing to contest if the feds take a clinic because they are in compliance with FEDERAL law. The state may not like it but oh well. What is required is a directive from the executive level of the DEA to not enforce federal law in the cases of medical MJ in states where state law allows it. No one is going to actually change the federal laws because that is a very hot potato. It would be difficult to get re-elected inmost states when your opponent hammers you on being soft on crime because you voted to legalize dope.


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## rebel1699 (Nov 14, 2008)

I think everyone saying the economy will slow down the legalization of pot is dead wrong. First off we have an "open minded" president(elect). Second, I beleive that americas #1 cash crop for the past several years will figure into his plans. The money possible from not only regulating marijuana, but not having to dole out the millions and millions to fight it as well. You save and make more. Now knock off the bill for the millions of inmates rotting in jails and prisons. Coming from a economic standpoint and getting pressure from an evergrowing open minded community, i dont think it is a bullet he can afford to dodge. Trust me. Desperate times call for desperate measures. If you remember, alcohol prohibition was repealed only 4 years into the Great Depression(1933).


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## CrackerJax (Nov 14, 2008)

rebel1699 said:


> I think everyone saying the economy will slow down the legalization of pot is dead wrong. First off we have an "open minded" president(elect). Second, I beleive that americas #1 cash crop for the past several years will figure into his plans. The money possible from not only regulating marijuana, but not having to dole out the millions and millions to fight it as well. You save and make more. Now knock off the bill for the millions of inmates rotting in jails and prisons. Coming from a economic standpoint and getting pressure from an evergrowing open minded community, i dont think it is a bullet he can afford to dodge. Trust me. Desperate times call for desperate measures. If you remember, alcohol prohibition was repealed only 4 years into the Great Depression(1933).



First, I don't know if having an "open" mind is a positive thing. All it really means is you don't have your own foundational knowledge or judgment and can be easily swayed. Like say the millions of folks who voted for Obama without a whit of actual knowledge about him. 
Secondly, weed is a LARGE cash crop only because it is illegal and can achieve profit rates of 5000%. I wonder what would be your reaction if Big Oil was able to knock down a paltry 1000-5000% as opposed to their now 8% (obscene amount right?).
Third, desperate measures will only hasten the demise of his Presidency, and I'm pretty sure he wants two terms. These are not desperate times .. yet. You have just been told that over and over again. And in keeping with your appeal of an open mind, you have taken the repeated message of doom and now accept it. 

Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? Yes, I can forsee that if all goes well in the first term, Obama may take a whack at decrimmin weed. Only if things are going swell will weed be an issue, not the other way around. However, I give the odds for a great first term at 3-1 against.
Maybe I will be pleasantly surprised, I'll keep an open mind .



out.


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## overfiend (Nov 14, 2008)

maybe federal will never make it "legal" right now they got us where they want us.
too many people wanted medical marijuana so they passed a law ,in a few states, to try out this approach. they are probably thinking people may be on to something with weed having medicinal uses. federal law just keeps more people from growing tons of bud,i dont think they will ever give up this stand especialy if we keep saying its for medical use. how many medicines do you see becoming "legal"? most meds you get a script for have to be bought at the pharmacy not a club. i think maybe untill they find a way to harness the thc/cbd content better via pills or inhailer they will allow you to use it for medical use,but once they have a better or similar way that THEY can control this, medical marijuana thing will be gone


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## Biggravy22 (Nov 14, 2008)

Obama has stated on the record he believes it should be decriminalized but not legalized.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 14, 2008)

Biggravy22 said:


> Obama has stated on the record he believes it should be decriminalized but not legalized.


Well Obama has said many things, but words don't equate action. Shoulda, woulda coulda, is not did, done , been there.....

We'll see. It may be a "promise" but it has to be way down on the list. We'll see....


out.


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## ststepen420 (Nov 14, 2008)

He said he was for it and then later on said otherwise, both interviews are on youtube. I figure that small amounts are gonna be decriminalized in the next few years. It wont be legal, that would take alot for that to happen. All the people in this country that love to smoke it arent all that keen on doing anything about it. Forget Obama and Mcain, where are the voters for Nader or Ron Paul? If you really want something done then get your ass off the couch and do something about it. Potheads are too lazy and unorganized to ever get such a person in power. We all talk a good game but when it comes to action are hands are tied by our own agendas.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 14, 2008)

ststepen420 said:


> He said he was for it and then later on said otherwise, both interviews are on youtube. I figure that small amounts are gonna be decriminalized in the next few years. It wont be legal, that would take alot for that to happen. All the people in this country that love to smoke it arent all that keen on doing anything about it. Forget Obama and Mcain, where are the voters for Nader or Ron Paul? If you really want something done then get your ass off the couch and do something about it. Potheads are too lazy and unorganized to ever get such a person in power. We all talk a good game but when it comes to action are hands are tied by our own agendas.



If we could just get a few meth heads to take the reins of the NORML Lobby, we might just get something done. Plenty of hilarious You tube vids would be provided as well I imagine .


out.


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## NewGrowth (Nov 14, 2008)

I think it is very possible there will be no more federal raid on MMJ in California under Obama he said "Its a waste of our resources". I think Obama is good for the legalization movement because he will respect the states rights issue. Here in Colorado we have making very good progress, having less than an OZ in Denver is now legal . . . we still are fighting with local prosecutors but for the most part progress is being made thanks to Mason Tvert and SAFER.SAFER - Home


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## Biggravy22 (Nov 14, 2008)

CrackerJax said:


> Well Obama has said many things, but words don't equate action. Shoulda, woulda coulda, is not did, done , been there.....
> 
> We'll see. It may be a "promise" but it has to be way down on the list. We'll see....
> 
> ...


Who said anything about promises? He said this at a discussion at a university. Besides the man can't do much of anything at this point but talk.
Give him time. Sure he has much more pressing issues on his plate, but im sure he'll make his way around to it in due time.


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## CrackerJax (Nov 14, 2008)

If you read up a bit, it was someone else who said it was a promise, not I. I merely threw out the prospect that IF it was a "promise", it is way down on his list of things to do to fulfill the many many promises he has committed himself to already, and they are many and varied. Like I said, we'll see. 


out.


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## slackjack (Nov 14, 2008)

bradlyallen2 said:


> No I don't think it will happen like this at all. Their is nothing to contest if the feds take a clinic because they are in compliance with FEDERAL law. The state may not like it but oh well. What is required is a directive from the executive level of the DEA to not enforce federal law in the cases of medical MJ in states where state law allows it. No one is going to actually change the federal laws because that is a very hot potato. It would be difficult to get re-elected inmost states when your opponent hammers you on being soft on crime because you voted to legalize dope.


Exactly, I won't pretend to know everything about our extremely silly court system, but situations happen all the time that challenge federal law. They have to do appeals and all sorts of stuff to get in front of the supreme court, and whether they allow that to happen or not depends on alot of issues. We already know that this hypothetical person in our future will be within his states rights, so it will indeed go immediately to a federal court. From their hes is already half way to being where he needs to be. With the help of Cannabis Advocacy groups, this case will get in front of the Judicial system that can set national precedents, then win in favor of the states rights and until a court rules otherwise, federal law will be interpreted to respect the states rights to prescribe cannabis as a medicine (I said nothing of legalization and Obama's fingers are kept fully clean of any of this). Just as Abortion rights are not a law anywhere only a court precedent (Roe v Wade).
From there, who knows, indeed, maybe Obama could get a second term and help press for legalization/decriminalization. I don't see it happening except through tiny steps. Even Canada hasn't legalized yet, and I'm sure the US will not pave the way on this issue.

quick toke and back to work for me!
Mad love RIU!


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## snyder007 (Nov 16, 2008)

Madison NORML this ordinance was passed in 1977.

Do I wish pot was legalized/decriminalized? Yes. Will it happen? Probably not any time soon. I am however glad to hear that the feds will no longer be taking medicine away from people who honestly benefit from medical marijuana. That is a big step toward Obama making his intentions known when it comes to MM.


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## ElBarto (Nov 21, 2008)

Mr. Buford Terrell, former Professor of Law at South Texas College of Law, made an interesting point in a recent interview with Dean Becker on Becker's radio show, Cultural Baggage. 

*Dean Becker: *Well, ok. I tell you what. Let&#8217;s talk about the Obama election. Let&#8217;s talk about, I think it&#8217;s kind of scary&#8230; even Bob Barr changed his mind. He use to be a zealot, a drug warrior but he&#8217;s now calling for the end of prohibition.

But Senator Biden, Chief of Staff, Raum Emanuel, the portended Attorney General Holden, and the more unknown Drug Czar candidate, might be Dr. Donald Vereen of NIDA, but all of these guys are not going to make a big turn around in the drug war. Yeah, your thoughts on that, Buford.

*Mr. Buford Terrell: *Well, there&#8217;s one thing about it. Raum Emanuel and Obama both, are experience classical politicians. They read voters. They read polls. They&#8217;re both very practical men and I think that, especially things like the voting margins, in the Michigan medical marijuana and the Massachusetts marijuana decriminalization, will have an effect on them.

Obama has already indicated that he&#8217;s in favor of &#8216;not&#8217; letting the feds interfere with state medical marijuana laws. Congress is starting to feel it&#8217;s oats and not only the numbers but the orientation&#8217;s who changed enough there.

I like, I&#8217;m going to say that in this next session of congress we&#8217;re going to see, at least, decriminalization of marijuana on a national level.​


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## Seamaiden (Nov 21, 2008)

The mind(s) that needs changing isn't Obama's. He does not make laws, he only signs or vetoes them. The minds that need changing are those of our representatives.


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## ElBarto (Nov 21, 2008)

I asked several drug policy reform groups for a statement on Obama's nomination of Eric Holder to head up the Justice Department. The consensus seemed to be mild disappointment tempered with cautious optimism that despite his recent staff selections, Obama will keep his campaign promises to end the federal raids on medical marijuana dispensaries and work to ameliorate the discrepancy in crack/powder cocaine sentencing...

Who Obama ends up choosing to head up the DEA and ONDCP will be a far better indicator of whether he intends to continue the Bush administration's aggressive prosecution of the drug war, or if he's looking at a more tempered approach.

My prediction? He'll call off the medical marijuana raids. Anything more would be a pleasant surprise. 

Radley Balko 
Drug Policy Reform Organizations Weigh in on Holder


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## lou~dog (Nov 22, 2008)

YouTube - Weed Smell At Obama Celebration - LA Rag Mag.com Exclusive NufF said!!


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## bigtittymilf (Nov 27, 2008)

with 2 wars and a shitty economy i think he is gonnna be too busy trying to fix bushges mess to worry about weed honestly


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## CrackerJax (Nov 28, 2008)

bigtittymilf said:


> with 2 wars and a shitty economy i think he is gonnna be too busy trying to fix bushges mess to worry about weed honestly



You mean Congress......and they aren't going anywhere. Watch the birdie dear, you've been hoodwinked. 




out.


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## diemdepyro (Nov 28, 2008)

It may be forced issue, cannabis could replace 20 percent of prescriptions, drug companies need to be cash strapped so they can not continue the prohibition.


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## Hemlock (Nov 29, 2008)

CrackerJax said:


> I'll give a nice clean and simple answer. No.
> 
> It's a non issue right now. Neither candidate had to talk about weed on the trail. Politicians almost always take the path of least resistance. So,..... no.
> 
> ...


But isn't generating revenue (other than raising taxes) going to be important to a man that believes in bigger goverment? And will that push the Dem's to legalize it? I hope so


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## HomeGrownHairy (Nov 29, 2008)

CrackerJax said:


> Funny you should mention that . Back in the 70's I was just a kid and my Uncle worked for brown& Williamson tobacco Co. he told me they were all ready to roll an entire wing of assembly production for weed. It was very close to happening. Very. DAMMIT!!
> 
> 
> out.


LOL...I think he might have been kidding you. Just another Big Tobacco company inside joke... I'll bet'cha!!!


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## misshestermoffitt (Dec 1, 2008)

This just in, Illinois DCFS will stop drug testing applicants. Apparently the budget is just too tight. 

I think it will be budgets that eventually lead to legalization.


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## SOorganic (Dec 4, 2008)

HomeGrownHairy said:


> LOL...I think he might have been kidding you. Just another Big Tobacco company inside joke... I'll bet'cha!!!


Its actually true! Not only that but if you look it up i believe it was Philip Morris that already has a patent on Marley Brand cigarettes. And they already have a weed cigarette in the works just waiting for legalization called Marlborough blacks. I very much doubt Obama is going to help get herb legalized. There is just to much special interest vieing for it to stay illegal. I dont even know if it will happen in our life time at this rate. What ever i dont give a rats ass if it is legal or not. All i know is i love to smoke the stuff and i love to grow it just as much!


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## CrackerJax (Dec 5, 2008)

SOorganic said:


> Its actually true! Not only that but if you look it up i believe it was Philip Morris that already has a patent on Marley Brand cigarettes. And they already have a weed cigarette in the works just waiting for legalization called Marlborough blacks. I very much doubt Obama is going to help get herb legalized. There is just to much special interest vieing for it to stay illegal. I dont even know if it will happen in our life time at this rate. What ever i dont give a rats ass if it is legal or not. All i know is i love to smoke the stuff and i love to grow it just as much!


You are correct. Labels were made, assembly lines were altered in preparation, it was that close.



out.


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## misshestermoffitt (Dec 5, 2008)

75 years ago today the prohibition on booze was lifted. 

Maybe someday we can celebrate the prohibition on weed being lifted. I hope they hurry, I'm not getting any younger.


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## SeaOfGreen (Dec 5, 2008)

it doesn't hurt to do all you can, please enter info and contact your local rep about the decrim. of cannabis.

https://www.rollitup.org/legalization-marijuana/136362-am-i-going-crazy-decriminalization.html


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## pmgbns (Dec 7, 2008)

I will always fight for it to be legalized... I just hope it's soon. I'll be moving to Cali or Colorado soon tho!


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## CrackerJax (Dec 7, 2008)

If ever there was a political alignment towards decrim, it is now. We'll see, this is almost a repeat of the early Carter years demographically.



out.


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## Hemlock (Dec 7, 2008)

CrackerJax said:


> If ever there was a political alignment towards decrim, it is now. We'll see, this is almost a repeat of the early Carter years demographically.
> 
> 
> 
> out.


I think you are right about that Cracker Jack. If the so called "stars" were ever aligned its now...


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## NomadicSky (Dec 8, 2008)

I doubt Obama would risk setting off the Xian right like that.

People actually believe cannabis is the same as crack and meth, I did once myself.


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## NomadicSky (Dec 8, 2008)

SOorganic said:


> Its actually true! Not only that but if you look it up i believe it was Philip Morris that already has a patent on Marley Brand cigarettes. And they already have a weed cigarette in the works just waiting for legalization called Marlborough blacks. I very much doubt Obama is going to help get herb legalized. There is just to much special interest vieing for it to stay illegal. I dont even know if it will happen in our life time at this rate. What ever i dont give a rats ass if it is legal or not. All i know is i love to smoke the stuff and i love to grow it just as much!



I wouldn't buy their weed they'd load it down with chemicals like they did with tobacco if it was legal I'd loose my fear and grow it.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 8, 2008)

NomadicSky said:


> I wouldn't buy their weed they'd load it down with chemicals like they did with tobacco if it was legal I'd loose my fear and grow it.


But that's not how it would have been set up. Grows would still be a no go. Same with what would then be "black market" buying and selling. Of course the price would fall out so bootlegging would cease to exist.



out.


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## monkeyboy22 (Dec 8, 2008)

but you can brew your own beer just cant sell it legally so why cant we legalize and grow our own??

in any case as I said in the other thread I really believe that Obama will help fix this issue...

the main reason prohibition was lifted on alcohol wasnt just because of increased crime but because of the Great Depression and everyone seeing just how much money was being wasted trying to keep prohibition going but also money lost due to not being able to tax the money being made by the bootleggers.. 

I personally think Obama has something going for us already and we just wont know until it happens. By this I mean that he has always said he wouldnt waste fed money to keep going after decrim states and during his campaign for presidency and even now as pres elect he keeps letting us know just how much he wants to cut funding for programs that dont work and CHANGE gov to be smarter... me and apparently at least 63% of americans feel that the "war on drugs" has been a waste of money so what better program to cut spending on 

an easy way for this to happen without raising eyebrows would be for him to not actually talk about the subject itself but rather lump it in with the overall economic reform and then out of nowhere it gets passed.. we all are happy.. and those who were against it (likely repub) cant believe they voted for it but thought they had no choice cause the majority was already going with it and they didnt want to be voting against econ reform... lol

the main thing that we can do if we really truely want this to happen is to get out there and let everyone know what is up and also to make sure that we keep letting those in charge of this gov that the majority think that this war on drugs is rediculous and that if they want to keep our vote for them to stay in office the next time around they had better do what the people want 

go to the following link for an easy way to write your local state rep http://capwiz.com/norml2/issues/alert/?alertid=11280301

also you can go to change.gov (obama's website) and let them know in their blogs how you feel... also CNN and AOL blogs are a good place to get people talking


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## snyder007 (Dec 8, 2008)

I wouldnt hold your breath.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081208/pl_politico/16292

Looks like more empty promises and more of the same old bullshit. Fuck the government and fuck politics.


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## monkeyboy22 (Dec 8, 2008)

seriously you cant bash the guy yet.. he didnt have all the facts before becoming pres elect and also he hasnt really taken any action on anything yet since he cant till Jan 20th..

I say we at least give him a few months in office before we start bashing.. at least then we will know wtf the guy is really about since he will have had time to prove himself...


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## Cannabox (Dec 8, 2008)

CrackerJax said:


> I'll give a nice clean and simple answer. No.
> 
> It's a non issue right now. Neither candidate had to talk about weed on the trail. Politicians almost always take the path of least resistance. So,..... no.
> 
> ...


this guy is right. no. we won't see mj legal like alcohol. medical.. ya with tighter restrictions if you get busted without 'poper papers'. med card or whatever. already states that have legalized medical made even harsher punishments they currently had for people that get caught that aren't supposed to have it. the fact is, trade freedom for security.
larger government = security = less freedom.
no goverenment = no parents = more freedom.
more freedom = more responisbility.

americans aren't responisible = deserve less freedom = needs more parents = bigger government.

hope that helps.
* when we lessen government we increase our freedom *

edit: i hope i AM wrong and we do see it legal.. but i just don't believe it's going to be that soon... if it is.. HOORAY..


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## CrackerJax (Dec 8, 2008)

monkeyboy22 said:


> but you can brew your own beer just cant sell it legally so why cant we legalize and grow our own??
> 
> in any case as I said in the other thread I really believe that Obama will help fix this issue...
> 
> ...



I just read an interesting article about prohibition and its repeal. It wasn't so much about the money, it was the crime. The abolitionists themselves detested alcohol but in the end saw the destructive powers of prohibition. Beer still flowed just as plentiful, but the world became a seedy place. Prisons filled up with neighbors.... (sound familiar?). 

There was one difference from todays situation. The prohibition lasted only 15 years. People could remember what it was like before it. This is not the case today. I will bet the majority of posters here do not remember a time before the drug war.





out.


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## monkeyboy22 (Dec 8, 2008)

CrackerJax said:


> I just read an interesting article about prohibition and its repeal. It wasn't so much about the money, it was the crime. The abolitionists themselves detested alcohol but in the end saw the destructive powers of prohibition. Beer still flowed just as plentiful, but the world became a seedy place. Prisons filled up with neighbors.... (sound familiar?). .....


 
but you see that is exactly the point... without the money to be made from bootlegging there would have been no bootleggers (not worth time/money to reap no reward) no bootlegging would have meant no crime resulting from bootlegging and no money to create speakeasy's.. again money is and always will be the big factor why prohibition wont and cant work... there is just too much money to be made when there is a high demand for a product that is deemed illegal and hard to get/find/make. you stated that beer still came in however it wasnt beer but rather harder alcohol (wiskey etc) which created lots of alc poisonings as well as put many neighbors in jail also there were more speakeasys created after prohib than there were bars before prohib.

if you legalize something the money is still being made but it is being made legally and if the penalties are harsher for selling to minors (like alc or cig) there is MUCH less need/want for a black market since not many really wants to go to jail or commit a crime... i mean who would really want to buy their smoke illegally underground when you could go to a cafe or such and buy legally? 

problem especially with MJ is that its not hard to grow if you are willing to take the risk (unfortunately I'm not  ) as anyone can tell fromt he grows posted on this site and so the end result has to be the legalization at some point cause the gov just doesnt have the money anymore to keep dumping into a losing battle...

someone mentioned earlier that there would bemore chemicals in legal pot... I cant agree with this any less since there would likely be some type of regulations for growing or at least over time some such regulations would have to come about.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 8, 2008)

Hey, I'm not arguing with you . 

The trick is to get a product with a 5000% profit margin into the mainstream. So far it hasn't been done.






out.


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## monkeyboy22 (Dec 8, 2008)

CrackerJax said:


> Hey, I'm not arguing with you .
> 
> The trick is to get a product with a 5000% profit margin into the mainstream. So far it hasn't been done.
> 
> ...


wasnt arguing with you either really just trying to make sure that we all have our facts straight so that we can spead the TRUTH 


edit - I just wanted to touch on the whole mass production issue about quality and such...

I really dont think that it will be much different with MJ that it is with alc and tabacco.. there is a lot of different booze and cigarette/cigars out there that can vary in quality and price greatly depending on lots of factors. The same can be said about MJ. 9 times out of ten the higher priced alc/tobacco will be much higher quality but usually made in much smaller batches.. then there is that 1 time out of ten where you find a drink or a certain cigar that you really enjoy that just so happens to be mass produced and cheap. It's all about what people are willing to pay for. If its legal and everything out is crap then the black market will either continue or MANY more people will grow their own in hopes of comming up with something better. However it could also be noticed by the companies growing the slump in sales due to shitty herb and they make things better for the sake of keeping us happy to keep their business going...

btw- i was an econ and social studies major hense my long winded posts... sorry to all who suffer through reading them.. now go smoke a joint


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## misshestermoffitt (Dec 8, 2008)

The truth is, until the politicians stop being the puppets of the corporations, nothing will change.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 8, 2008)

misshestermoffitt said:


> The truth is, until the politicians stop being the puppets of the corporations, nothing will change.




Yes, it's much better when the corporations are puppets of the Government .. 



out.


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## ImissATARI (Dec 8, 2008)

my supervisors niece (2 years old) passed away today while under foster care. She found some perscription meds and ate them. The exact meds are not yet known and facts are being straightened out. Word is right now she must of thought it was candy and somehow got into it.

I don't say that to depress, but a "safe" legal drug has killed many. 

Recently I lost a very dear friend of mine to perscription drug addiction. 

My grandmother passed from alcoholism, her husband (my grandfather) died from cancer from smoking. 

How in the hell marijuana is not legal, I will never figure out. 

I would rather smoke then drink, as many people would. You don't get a hangover like you do with alcohol, but maybe feel "hazy" the next day, nothing like sitting on the couch for 2 days sippin water. 

I am so pissed. Marijuana is put up to the levels of cocaine, heroin, meth. Smokers are ridiculed by the media and others who have succumb to propaganda. Police think they are king shit by getting a small private grow, or find a field with a few plants. 

The problem? Too many fat bastards are making money off legal, regulated drugs. This country is so scared of change, look at the fucking auto industry. They have FAILED because of reliance on the industrial age. No innovation has sealed their fate, while millions of workers, putting full faith in those with the "gold" (those who have gold, have the power) believe their positions are secure. 

The FDA requires any substance that helps an ailment to be regulated. Anything that says it fixes anything much be approved. Wouldn't it be in their best interest to keep common herbal remedies from being frowned upon? They slam anything that fixes anything until you dance to their tune. 

The war on drugs is a joke, and this country is a joke. when a president can lose the general election by popular votes yet lead this country into the crapper for 8 years, when the betterment of the PEOPLE is outweighed by the CHECKBOOKS of a few. WHEN 95% OF THE COUNTRIES WEALTH IS HELD BY 5% OF THE POPULATION, we have a problem. 

THE PROBLEM? THE 5% HOLD THE POWER, THE 5% REGULATE THE MEDIA, the 5% WLL DO ANYTHING THEY CAN TO HIDE THE TRUTH, AND THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES TO DO IT. HOW CAN YOU WIN THAT FIGHT?


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## lambofgod420 (Dec 8, 2008)

obama said that he didnt know what decriminalization was when he answered that question in 2004. if they were to do anything they would decriminalize it before they legalize it. they would tax it and u would only be able to have so much. i think we may end up paying like $20 a g. and u wouldnt be able to grow it without a stamp just like with tobacco


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## GKF420 (Dec 9, 2008)

I honestly can't believe pot is illegal. It's a PLANT that we're not able to grow legally. How much bullshit is that? I don't think any president will be brave enough to try to legalize it. Their opponents would use it to their advantage and label them as a drug addict. I'm sure people think marijuana is this bad thing that ruins everyones lives and it's bad for you blah blah blah especially because of all the money being spent on promoting these stupid drug free commercials about marijuana. Marijuana has done more good than bad for me. How about I make a commercial about marijuana helping me. Why does a drug have to be worse than alcohol? What good has marijuana done? ALOT! What good has alcohol done? NOTHING! COME ON! IT'S JUST A PLANT! LISTEN TO BOB MARLEY!


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## NomadicSky (Dec 9, 2008)

CrackerJax said:


> But that's not how it would have been set up. Grows would still be a no go. Same with what would then be "black market" buying and selling. Of course the price would fall out so bootlegging would cease to exist.
> 
> 
> 
> out.


Maybe, maybe not. People can legally grow their own tobacco.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 9, 2008)

ImissATARI said:


> my supervisors niece (2 years old) passed away today while under foster care. She found some perscription meds and ate them. The exact meds are not yet known and facts are being straightened out. Word is right now she must of thought it was candy and somehow got into it.
> 
> I don't say that to depress, but a "safe" legal drug has killed many.
> 
> ...



Exactly why redistribution of wealth is a charade and will only make everyone suffer. You have hit the nail on the head, perhaps without knowing it .

You could give everyone the exact same amount of monies, land, etc. and not too far down the road, 5% of the population would be far out ahead of the rest. It happens every time....

The 5% pull the cart for the rest of the 95%. Be grateful.

The fact is one need look no farther than MJ to see greed. And that's on our end boyz, not theirs.....






out.


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## NomadicSky (Dec 9, 2008)

monkeyboy22 said:


> seriously you cant bash the guy yet.. he didnt have all the facts before becoming pres elect and also he hasnt really taken any action on anything yet since he cant till Jan 20th..
> 
> I say we at least give him a few months in office before we start bashing.. at least then we will know wtf the guy is really about since he will have had time to prove himself...


Obama promised way to much during his campaign everything was his issue. 

And if everything is your issue then nothing is.

I voted for McCain I'd have rather had someone who I at least knew where they stood than "Change".

He's in now, I'm really anxious to find out what he's actually going to change.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 9, 2008)

NomadicSky said:


> Obama promised way to much during his campaign everything was his issue.
> 
> And if everything is your issue then nothing is.
> 
> ...


You will give him 100 dollars and he will give you change.... see? everyone's happy.



out.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 9, 2008)

NomadicSky said:


> Maybe, maybe not. People can legally grow their own tobacco.


Yes, but economics kicks in again,...you can't produce a lb. of tobacco cheaper than Philip Morris. 

People are like electricity, they will nearly always take the path of least resistance, even if it's detrimental sometimes. 

So how long are you going to mess with nutes and bugs and everything else when all your buddies just walk to the corner store and buy a pack of joints for less than the price of your nutrients?

You may be stubborn, i don't know  but the MAJORITY will opt out of growing and simply take the walk to the store, don't you think?



out.


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## monkeyboy22 (Dec 9, 2008)

CrackerJax said:


> Yes, but economics kicks in again,...you can't produce a lb. of tobacco cheaper than Philip Morris.
> 
> People are like electricity, they will nearly always take the path of least resistance, even if it's detrimental sometimes.
> 
> ...


x2

you can basically grow all your own fruits and veggies too but look at how many would much rather go to the store


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## NomadicSky (Dec 9, 2008)

CrackerJax said:


> Yes, but economics kicks in again,...you can't produce a lb. of tobacco cheaper than Philip Morris.
> 
> People are like electricity, they will nearly always take the path of least resistance, even if it's detrimental sometimes.
> 
> ...


I agree.

But I wouldn't be growing it to sell just for NomadicSky.

However if I could just hop over to my local head shop and buy it I would. I'd still rater roll my own joints than let Philip Morris do it for me.


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## NomadicSky (Dec 9, 2008)

CrackerJax said:


> You will give him 100 dollars and he will give you change.... see? everyone's happy.
> 
> 
> 
> out.


I'm not unhappy with him at all, I went to see him debate John McCain when they were in Oxford.

They are both crooked political folks out for themselves, John McCain just seemed to be more honest about it. Although Sarah Palin...what a pos. I'm sorta glad McCain lost just on the off chance he died in office and left her to be the president.


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## CrackerJax (Dec 9, 2008)

NomadicSky said:


> I'm not unhappy with him at all, I went to see him debate John McCain when they were in Oxford.
> 
> They are both crooked political folks out for themselves, John McCain just seemed to be more honest about it. Although Sarah Palin...what a pos. I'm sorta glad McCain lost just on the off chance he died in office and left her to be the president.


I tend to agree with you....

Although since they just discovered three times the entire continentals U.S. supply in natural gas up in Alaska (it's frozen...go figure), Palin still holds some cards to play. Obama will be going to her at some point with hat in hand. She will be gracious.



out.


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## pepperfan9888 (Feb 16, 2009)

even though that 5% does pretty much control the govt. i think that the kids being born now will see at least decriminalization. more and more people are learning the truth about it... and HOPEFULLY politics wont be SO bad. i just like to think that the old traditional people by that time will be gone... i think that as every generation goes by.. more and more people have more open minds.. (i mean look... we voted in a half black guy, which was unheard of)


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## OregonMeds (Feb 16, 2009)

Nobody else here has stayed up on the news?
A short while back, weeks, the DEA did a raid in cali on some dispensaries or other medical ops and a few days later Obama (via his press secretary in a televised conference) ordered the DEA directly to stay away from medical and enforce the law within his guidlines outlined in his campaign. 

So, many of you already won and didn't know it. You should be lighting up in celebration because at this point medical people are finally safe. (at least only while Obama is in office unless there is further legislation.)


There was nothing in writing, but they did that in front of the camera's and it was on CNN and someone will seriously get their ass kicked now if they disobey.

Final legislation probably will not happen until he appoints someone new to head the Justice dept or DEA but actually the new Attorney General has authority over them and could do it and so could the pres.

Unfortunately as we all know there are bigger fish to fry... But either way we win.

The DEA either honors the verbal order or breaks it, both being good for us. We already saw the coverage this first transgression got, it was covered by just about all newspapers and TV channels and all over the web.


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## Kant (Feb 16, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> Nobody else here has stayed up on the news?
> A short while back, weeks, the DEA did a raid in cali on some dispensaries or other medical ops and a few days later Obama (via his press secretary in a televised conference) ordered the DEA directly to stay away from medical and enforce the law within his guidlines outlined in his campaign.
> 
> So, many of you already won and didn't know it. You should be lighting up in celebration because at this point medical people are finally safe. (at least only while Obama is in office unless there is further legislation.)


this isn't entirely true. he's come out via his press secretary to say that the raids will end but there's still no official presidential mandate declaring that the dea must stay away from state approved medical dispensaries.


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## pepperfan9888 (Feb 16, 2009)

its not a win for the non-medical use states though... i like what Hawaii has done on the big island.... MJ as lowest priority.. way to go Hawaii!


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## utbob (Feb 17, 2009)

Not a chance of happening. For one Congress is way too closely divided to make happen (all the Republicans left are conservatives) and for two there is no way Obama would use his political capital (and it would take an IMMENSE amount of political capital) on marijuana when there are so many other much more important and pressing issues at the moment.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 17, 2009)

Obama can adopt the Dutch philosophy and work it from the top down (psst...everything works that way, don't tell anyone). Weed is officially against the law in the Nederlands, on paper that is (rolling?). They just don't prosecute. So if things get out of hand they still have leverage over the industry. Obama could do the same. Once the attitude trickles down.....it will be the same as A-dam. If you don't act the fool, you will have no worries....simple things like not in front of the kids, schools, etc.


out.


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## budder (Feb 17, 2009)

I honestly don't think the Feds will ever legalize it..It keeps too many dea's employed, to have to "fight" it.. They're admitting defeat if it's legal..I fuckin hope I'm WAY wrong, though..


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## Kant (Feb 17, 2009)

I think the biggest problem is in the controlled substance act. Even if obama legalized it or congress legalized all the DEA has to do is submit cannabis to the HHS and so long as the HHS recommends that cannabis be regulated (usually they give a level) the DEA can regulate it at "any level deemed necessary" so that means if the HHS recommend it be schedule 5, the DEA can put it back at schedule 1. The only part of the recommendation that the DEA has to adhere to is whether or not the substance should be regulated. HOWEVER there's more, under the emergancy provision articles of the controlled substance act, the DEA can declare a substance any schedule if it's deemed an emergancy. Exstacy was placed as schedule 1 this way.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 17, 2009)

Thanks Kant, do you think cannabis will be re-scheduled after Obama ends raids? It's kind of hard to justify ending raids if it is currently "of no medicinal value" according to the DEA and in turn the Federal Government.


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## SlowToker (Feb 17, 2009)

The only thing that will save us is the Feds & States run out of money and can't pay the cops to fuck with us. Other than that Obama isn't giving us anything but a lot more Clinton!

No Peace for America


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## Kant (Feb 17, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Thanks Kant, do you think cannabis will be re-scheduled after Obama ends raids? It's kind of hard to justify ending raids if it is currently "of no medicinal value" according to the DEA and in turn the Federal Government.



it's hard to tell....obama is smart and he's not going to do something that going to be a blatant slap in the face to the right. If he's going to do anything he might get behind a bill going through congress but i seriously doubt that he will do anything unilateral. I think the major movement is gonna have to be through congress.


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## NuteGreenwitch (Feb 17, 2009)

He won't blatantly slap the Right? C'mon - Not one Republican in the House voted for his stimulus bill and he flat out broke his promise to let any Republican see his "stimulus" spending bill before signing off on it...


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## Kant (Feb 17, 2009)

NuteGreenwitch said:


> He won't blatantly slap the Right? C'mon - Not one Republican in the House voted for his stimulus bill and he flat out broke his promise to let any Republican see his "stimulus" spending bill before signing off on it...


I didn't say he wouldn't irritate the right but if he tried to legalize pot (even if just mmj) save for people like ron paul, every republican there after would fight every idea obama supports just because he backs it.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 18, 2009)

SlowToker said:


> The only thing that will save us is the Feds & States run out of money and can't pay the cops to fuck with us. Other than that Obama isn't giving us anything but a lot more Clinton!
> 
> No Peace for America



The first priority of the 'stimulus" bill was to increase Govt. jobs and budgets at state and national levels, NOT reduce them. I'm shocked.....


out.


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## GrowingGreenGiant (Feb 23, 2009)

i think the legalization of marijuana would do wonders for the economy. honestly the majority of people i know smoke pot. not just my friends, but their parents, relatives, and parents friends even though they try to keep it a secret.


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## spoadalive420 (Feb 27, 2009)

Ok, say its legal.....how will companys drug test for new hires, could you choose to purchase you own bobily insurance, accept resposibility for whatever damages you cause........would you just become a scape goat? There needs to be a once and for all, 3 million dollar study on MJ. In depth....well thought out and cost effective. If it was the #1 question on the CNN poll than how about some research cheese from this giant stimulus package? I think that there are more dentist, doctor, lawyer, scientist, just about any field, there are MJ users! And they ussually are bad ass, careful workers.


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## texascollegestudent (Feb 27, 2009)

it'll never be legalized. too many people are making money off of prohibition. same old story -- they can't get away with firing numerous cops, reducing SWAT, putting tens of thousands domestic defense oriented workers out of business. even Americans would never allow it to happen. though that's not to say that the USA would be a far better place with a cogent marijuana policy and industry. i honestly dont think the legalization process is a good idea at this point.


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## Awesomo (Feb 27, 2009)

I think if it is legalized in Cali then it will be legalized within 4 years if democrats keep the house/senate/pres. It's got dual requirements to happen.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 27, 2009)

They have two years till majority ends. The writing on the wall is already there.

They better hurry!!


out.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 27, 2009)

Some pretty unexpected developments on the legalization front! California goes broke and turns to pot! Good stuff.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 27, 2009)

So cali. is going to replace their suits with hippies...that'll work 

Even if that happens...i wouldn't move there. No jobs, no state money, weed will be so cheap that growers will be outraged at the loss of capitalist profits.

It's a great place to visit tho...at least Malibu is 


out.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 27, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> So cali. is going to replace their suits with hippies...that'll work
> 
> Even if that happens...i wouldn't move there. No jobs, no state money, weed will be so cheap that growers will be outraged at the loss of capitalist profits.
> 
> ...


I doubt it, marijuana tourism would explode I think demand for Cali pot would be even higher.  Plus there would be plenty of growers pushing it across state lines. It would create a nightmare for neighboring state law enforcement. They would have no choice but to address it on a federal level as well.

But taxing it a $50 an ounce is not really "freeing the weed" IMO. And most people would start growing their own anyway if you charged that much.

Oh Obama's administration announced an end to federal raids too! I'm so high right now.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 27, 2009)

Yah, I guess it will all be in the implementation,which since the Cali. Govt. is involved, it will be convoluted. 

If they allow growing without repercussion, that will take the demand for street weed way down.



out.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 27, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Yah, I guess it will all be in the implementation,which since the Cali. Govt. is involved, it will be convoluted.
> 
> If they allow growing without repercussion, that will take the demand for street weed way down.
> 
> ...


Yep it would explode with an amsterdam style coffee shop system for sure. Business men would get a hold of it and do all kinds of crazy stuff for sure. Vapor lounges with strippers

Oh the hedonism! Religious right would explode into prayer

And think of the parties, there would be a huge hippie migration just to go hang out in Cali and smoke pot. Ahhh convoluted non-specific California law is wonderful

All this would happen before the Governator could say "duh"


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## CrackerJax (Feb 27, 2009)

Yah, ur right. It would turn into the western Adam. Can't reproduce that atmosphere tho.

So, is Adam officially begging Cali not to do it? 


out.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 27, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Yah, ur right. It would turn into the western Adam. Can't reproduce that atmosphere tho.
> 
> So, is Adam officially begging Cali not to do it?
> 
> ...


Nah they still have all the loud British tourists, they are happy to get rid of the loud americans ones and their Cannabis Cup.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 27, 2009)

Money is money tho...and Americans TIP 

I will admit however quite willingly that almost every altercation i have witnessed has been with either a Brit or an American. I usually dress very Dutch and avoid the tourist areas. On my second trip walking near the Opera house a couple in a car pulled over and started asking me for directions in Dutch. I sheepishly explained I was American, but got a charge that I blended in so well as to look native. weee.


out.


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## Kant (Feb 28, 2009)

As much as I would love to see it legalized, I honestly don't think it's going to happen in the near future.

I doubt that obama is going to legalized it. If he ever wants to get anything done as president he's not going to until late in his second term(assuming he gets reelected). Even then he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would unilaterally do something, especially something he's not in favor of doing.

If anything is going to happen is going to have to be through congress. but congress is really slow to change and when republicans get back in power (they will eventually) all the progress we've made will be rolled back. It seems to happen every time. Not necessarily republicans rolling back the progress but progress being rolled back in general. however now it seems like democrats are all that eager to roll things back.

As for the legislation in cali, I think it's a wonderful thing and an important step. However I know it won't last. The reason mmj laws have not been federally overruled by the courts is because they say that given these medical conditions and a doctors recommendation we're simply not going to prosecute you. It's more side stepping federal law, not directly opposing. The legislation in cali would directly violate federal law so it won't stand in court. This is all assumes that it passes.

Even if some states are ready for legalization there's a large group of states that aren't ready for legalization. so that's way i don't think it's going to happen soon. I would say that it's still 15+ years away, but that's my optimistic guess.


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## CrackerJax (Feb 28, 2009)

There is only one state in the union which has the power to thwart the fed's and that's Texas. Weed is not happening in Texas, otherwise it would be an interesting showdown. Texas is the only state which can separate from the union legally. That's thinking ahead...well done 

out.


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## Dezertdog (Mar 1, 2009)

Many years ago there was an image of a pink Marlboro package of 10 fine marijuana cigarettes. This was something that has been in the works for so very long.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 1, 2009)

My uncle was a Comtroller for Brown & Williamson back in the 70's and told me all the designs and machinery were in place, it was that close.


out.


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## Kant (Mar 1, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> My uncle was a Comtroller for Brown & Williamson back in the 70's and told me all the designs and machinery were in place, it was that close.
> 
> 
> out.


this is just fueling my pessimism. everytime we get close it snaps back into something worse.


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## GrowingGreenGiant (Mar 1, 2009)

my parents are pretty knowledgeable about the government and in their opinions with the debt that our country is in at this point they will need something knew to tax. with a tax on weed they'd make hella bills. so why not?


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## CrackerJax (Mar 1, 2009)

Well, I'm sorry to inform you ther Rip van Winkle, but you just slept through he biggest tax ripoff in the history of the nation. They now have PLENTY of money.....YOURS, and your kids, and your grandkids, and etc.

If they legalize it, it won't be for lack of funds.....


out.


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## ToastedFox (Mar 1, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Well, I'm sorry to inform you ther Rip van Winkle, but you just slept through he biggest tax ripoff in the history of the nation. They now have PLENTY of money.....YOURS, and your kids, and your grandkids, and etc.
> 
> If they legalize it, it won't be for lack of funds.....
> 
> ...


They took our money, and now they need more to take and figure since we all buy pot regardless of the law... well..


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## CrackerJax (Mar 1, 2009)

I have faith in the American people. In two years we will have a split congress, or a republican majority and alot of this nonsense will be stripped out of our economy. 

The people are already starting to wake up. If the election were held tomorrow, Obama would lose.


out.


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## Kant (Mar 1, 2009)

it always seems that during republican reign more money is pumped into prohibition. i'm not saying dems are good but as far as prohibition is concerned they seem like the lesser of two evils.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 2, 2009)

Yah, I can agree with that Kant. 

Then again, the Republicans gave us civil rights....so maybe it's a push?


out.


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## sleepyslasher79 (Mar 2, 2009)

As many of you know our Government is in an Economic crisis and we are havign alot of money issues right now. alot of people say we might be going into another depression. it may not be as big but still a depression would suck. during the great depression achohol was illegal people were still gettign it anyways and then all theese dealers were making all the money... hmm sound firmiliar..?well.. the president at the time decided to make achohol legal. and tax it for government profits and plus. it made alot of new jobs for the country. to produce and sell it. so in the end. if our modern age depression gets worse i think obama is a smart person i think he will make the same choose ande end up legalizing to make new jobs for americans and also to give the government alot more money to try and fix what bush created.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 2, 2009)

Alcohol was not illegal during the great depression...who told you that? It was the roaring 20's when it was not legal. 

out.


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## sleepyslasher79 (Mar 2, 2009)

lol it was illegal into the 1930's for sure believe me on this one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States#
1933 was when it was lifted. lol.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 2, 2009)

_Prohibition_ officially ended on Dec. 5, 1933.

Maybe you want to recheck? thought so...

out.


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## sleepyslasher79 (Mar 2, 2009)

and the great depression started.. before that. in 1929 in october if im not mistaken so... so..anything else "wrong" with my story that i can prove right xD


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## spoadalive420 (Mar 2, 2009)

Well you have all answered it. Our goverment has taken a loan against us, the people of the USA. WHo loaned us the money so I can learn that language. The gov is doing the best it can for being so big. It is not easy to allocate money. Ask a purchasing agent......realize how difficult it would be to control a nations spending. I think we need to figure out how to live cheeper without living worse. Maybe send some water resistant cardboard boxes out to our citizens to make nice new shanty towns......just wait.....and the company who makes it will be a monopoly with Congress holding 70% of the stock shares. Demiburton Co. I wonder if the government should sell off tracts of land and pay fed tax for protection....


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## spoadalive420 (Mar 2, 2009)

That all was BS.....who loaned us money for real? Jordan? China? _Isreal? _Any Lit on that?


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## CrackerJax (Mar 2, 2009)

The actual depression hit in late 1931, early 1932. Black Monday was not the beginning, merely the precursor to FDR's tampering with the private sector. That's when the misery began.

Sound familiar....?

out.


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## sleepyslasher79 (Mar 2, 2009)

and you said prohibition Ended in 1933 which is still not proving anything im saying wrong. lol


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## CrackerJax (Mar 2, 2009)

I'm not trying to prove you wrong, but you gave the impression that:

"during the great depression achohol was illegal people were still gettign it anyways and then all theese dealers were making all the money."

One year out of 9.....

out.


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## spoadalive420 (Mar 2, 2009)

Sorry sleepy but you can't get americas economy out of the dump very quickly. Too much cooking of the books, so much fake money. Houses are bought and sold electronically. I think that legalization would put a good for a while and then fase out again, maybe enough stupid people, which normally would not obtain MJ would get it and do stupid shit and blame it on MJ. Not the Human F-ing Defect. And what if that F-ers stupidy affects you? I say keep it in the dark. Hell it generates tons of sales tax revenue already. Plus all of the other crap you gotta buy at Wal-mart So people don't point and laugh and make comments, when your checking out grow bulbs and timers and nutrients, Flower pots, a spray bottle, maybe an odor fan. STOP BEING STUPID PEOPLE! Vermont Tax Base: $15.86 made off this. Then Electricity and the taxes you pay for them through service and misc charges. Plus they tax the Income of Manufacturer, and then Wal-Marts, and if It was imported , well you know thats some more tax. So being the way it is now, Money is made People. Its not how its made thats the problem, I think it is more how its spent and stolen. Human Beings are too easily currupted.


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## GrowingGreenGiant (Mar 2, 2009)

spoadalive420 said:


> Sorry sleepy but you can't get americas economy out of the dump very quickly. Too much cooking of the books, so much fake money. Houses are bought and sold electronically. I think that legalization would put a good for a while and then fase out again, maybe enough stupid people, which normally would not obtain MJ would get it and do stupid shit and blame it on MJ. Not the Human F-ing Defect. And what if that F-ers stupidy affects you? I say keep it in the dark. Hell it generates tons of sales tax revenue already. Plus all of the other crap you gotta buy at Wal-mart So people don't point and laugh and make comments, when your checking out grow bulbs and timers and nutrients, Flower pots, a spray bottle, maybe an odor fan. STOP BEING STUPID PEOPLE! Vermont Tax Base: $15.86 made off this. Then Electricity and the taxes you pay for them through service and misc charges. Plus they tax the Income of Manufacturer, and then Wal-Marts, and if It was imported , well you know thats some more tax. So being the way it is now, Money is made People. Its not how its made thats the problem, I think it is more how its spent and stolen. Human Beings are too easily currupted.


that is so true, people will do anything for money


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## zoink29 (Mar 2, 2009)

ull always be able to grow ur own shit or buy from some dude down the street...they cant take it away from us no matter how much money they throw at the "problem"


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## CrackerJax (Mar 3, 2009)

zoink29 said:


> ull always be able to grow ur own shit or buy from some dude down the street...they cant take it away from us no matter how much money they throw at the "problem"


That's true but the cost overall is destroyed lives and incarceration plus property confiscation. This is what must end.



out.


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## spoadalive420 (Mar 3, 2009)

I think alot of folks get freekin greedy really.......They'll put a half acre farm on a 1 acre lot and shit. I like the alaska rule...what was it two plants or something....this way is you had to, you could have hemp oil, clothing, rope and all that other good stuff.....you know if you got cut off from civ. or something.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 3, 2009)

You know the funny thing is Sarah Palin is from Alaska... we might have lost our best chance at decrim...





out.


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## GrowingGreenGiant (Mar 3, 2009)

yea two plants is reasonable, and sarah palin is a milf


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## CrackerJax (Mar 3, 2009)

Yah, I could have gotten used to her on TV every night.... "it puts the lotion in its hand" 


out.


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## GrowingGreenGiant (Mar 3, 2009)

CrackerJax said:


> Yah, I could have gotten used to her on TV every night.... "it puts the lotion in its hand"
> 
> 
> out.


hahahaha, and her daughter is pretty damn fine too!


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## CrackerJax (Mar 3, 2009)

I hear she's easy too!! 


out.


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## GrowingGreenGiant (Mar 4, 2009)

uh oh, you know what that means.... ROAD TRIP!


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## CrackerJax (Mar 4, 2009)

ROAD TRIP!!  That was one funny movie as well.....

My wife has bugged me for about 5 years to take a cruise in Alaska, but I just tell her that i will only go if we can stay at least 2 months. I'm not going way the hell up there for a week or two. She thought about it, read up on the black flies and dropped the subject... 

But we'll go one of these days, it's on my to do list, after something goes on my list only death will prevent me from accomplishing the list. 

ROAD TRIP!!!


out.


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## GrowingGreenGiant (Mar 4, 2009)

yea, in a few years after i graduate from college im plannin on takin a few road trips, and alaska is definitely on my list of places to go


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## gotot (Mar 5, 2009)

Kant said:


> As much as I would love to see it legalized, I honestly don't think it's going to happen in the near future.
> 
> I doubt that obama is going to legalized it. If he ever wants to get anything done as president he's not going to until late in his second term(assuming he gets reelected). Even then he doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would unilaterally do something, especially something he's not in favor of doing.
> 
> ...


conservatives have always been on the losing side of history dating back before the french revolution


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## CrackerJax (Mar 5, 2009)

I didn't know the conservatives were in the french revolution..... how'd they miss chopping Cheney's head off????  sac les bleu!! he's getting away!!


out.


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