# Abortion.



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

I'm against it, let the debating begin. no arguing, just good debates.


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## 420God (Oct 8, 2011)

Do you think a persons right to choose should be taken away?


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## cannabineer (Oct 8, 2011)

Abortion makes me uneasy. However compelling pregnant people (women all) to carry is the greater evil. cn


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## Metasynth (Oct 8, 2011)

Pro-Choice...not my body.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

420God said:


> Do you think a persons right to choose should be taken away?


I believe they had the choice to either get surgery to not have a kid, use condoms, or birth control, or just not have sex at all. But they decided to ignore the consequences and got stuck with a baby, and now people want to abort it? 
The way you word it makes me seem like I'm thinking unlogically, but these people had plenty of choices and they already chose, so now it's time to stick by their decision.


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## cannabineer (Oct 8, 2011)

Pregnancy should never be punishment. The med tech for safe abortion exists, so that djinn cannot be bottled. "Time to stick by their decision" is an imposition of a moral stance. Let's be pluralists. cn


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## 420God (Oct 8, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I believe they had the choice to either get surgery to not have a kid, use condoms, or birth control, or just not have sex at all. But they decided to ignore the consequences and got stuck with a baby, and now people want to abort it?
> The way you word it makes me seem like I'm thinking unlogically, but these people had plenty of choices and they already chose, so now it's time to stick by their decision.


 Rape victims? Have you any idea the number of girls that are sexually assaulted everyday, most are too ashamed to ever tell anyone.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

420God said:


> Rape victims? Have you any idea the number of girls that are sexually assaulted everyday, most are too ashamed to ever tell anyone.


alright thanks for opening my eyes to that scenario, rape victims do have the right to abort, IMO. other than those poor women I dont see any good moral value in abortion.


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## sunni (Oct 8, 2011)

im pro choice, but only in certain situations like rape victims, ect


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 8, 2011)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Why did you have to stir the pot further Heph?! This section doesn't need ANOTHER abortion thread, and you need to leave this discussion in the thread you're continuing it from.


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## ganjames (Oct 8, 2011)

pro-abortion all the way.

yeah yeah yeah ganjames found his way to the spirituality sub-forum.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Why did you have to stir the pot further Heph?! This section doesn't need ANOTHER abortion thread, and you need to leave this discussion in the thread you're continuing it from.


No dude, I accidentally thread jacked that thread, so I said if anyone cares to discuss abortion come over here.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

ganjames said:


> pro-abortion all the way.
> 
> yeah yeah yeah ganjames found his way to the spirituality sub-forum.


For what reasons?


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## ganjames (Oct 8, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> For what reasons?


http://www.nationalgeographic.com/eye/overpopulation/overpopulation.html
like i said before, there are no longer enough resources to provide for everyone.. and it can only get worse.


that's pretty much it, what good will bringing more people into the world do? keep up the fucking and popping out kids, this is their future:


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## RawBudzski (Oct 8, 2011)

*Abortion should be manditory. You should need 5x Forms of ID to procreate. *

*<3*


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 8, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> *Abortion should be manditory. You should need 5x Forms of ID to procreate. *
> 
> *<3*


2 parents agree to abortion = Abortion
1 parent agrees to abortion = Adoption
0 parents agree to abortion = Parenting


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 8, 2011)

[rant]

Pro-choice.

I don't think abortion should be used as a contraceptive - but shit happens, and if 2 people aren't ready for a kid what good is it going to do to force them to do a shitty job raising a child? A child deserves to have loving parents.... not parents that were guilt-tripped into keeping a kid when they're so obviously not responsible enough/not ready/too young/were a victim of a crime/etc etc etc....

Everyone who says abortion is wrong should be forced to adopt 6 children that would have been aborted.... lol


If anti-abortionist's are really looking for moral high ground their time would be better spent taking care of orphans instead of picketing/bombing/vandalizing abortion clinics. If an appeal to morality is *really* their stance, then show some fucking moral fiber and do something that actually makes a difference instead of appeasing petty religious views.


[/rant]


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 8, 2011)

This is never going to get anywhere.... the distinction between what is "life" is the deciding factor. 


I see absolutely zero moral problems with a woman having an abortion because I don't consider a fetus a person. 

If you view a fetus as a person, consequently you'll more than likely see abortion as morally objectionable. 


Not sure how we resolve the differences between what religious people deem as "life" and what secular people view as "life". (I realize I'm using generalizations in the last sentence, but it _mostly_ articulates my point)


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## april (Oct 8, 2011)

sunni said:


> im pro choice, but only in certain situations like rape victims, ect


I agree, women should not be able to use this as a method of birthcontrol, i know a few women whom have had 4plus each, so horrible!!!
Only women at risk of loosing their own life or victims of sexual assault should have this as an option. 
Adoption is a wonderful thing, even better thing is being responsible and practicing safe sex, unplanned children and std's just kinda ruin it 
I'm only a cyber whore, I find most real people are fucking dirty lmfao I have high hygiene standards, most don't compare lol


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## RawBudzski (Oct 8, 2011)

I am now on a mission to become the 1st RIU member to Impregnate another RIU member.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

ganjames said:


> http://www.nationalgeographic.com/eye/overpopulation/overpopulation.html
> like i said before, there are no longer enough resources to provide for everyone.. and it can only get worse.
> 
> 
> that's pretty much it, what good will bringing more people into the world do? keep up the fucking and popping out kids, this is their future:


That's crazy, I wasn't aborted (obviously) and I don't look like them. You don't look like them either, so every kid can be healthy. Seriously, if I had a kid and was poor as shit. And couldn't afford food, I would grow my own food outside in a garden. Anything to keep the kid healthy. I do feel bad for those kids though, but it's not that there istoo many kids, it's that we don't feed them. Like seriously how much food do us Americans eat that we don't need? A SHIT LOAD of wasted food that could have helped those kids. I mean like one obese person can keep some of those kids in good condition.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> [rant]
> 
> Pro-choice.
> 
> ...


Why should we be punished for someone else's mistakes? Besides there's always adoption, you don't have to raise the kid.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> This is never going to get anywhere.... the distinction between what is "life" is the deciding factor.
> 
> 
> I see absolutely zero moral problems with a woman having an abortion because I don't consider a fetus a person.
> ...


This has nothing to do with religion dude, please don't start an atheist vs religious thread, lol.
This is about moral reasoning. Some believe it's moral some believe it's immoral.


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## RawBudzski (Oct 8, 2011)

Religion specifically Christianity is the Root of All Evil. Please continue.. .


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> I am now on a mission to become the 1st RIU member to Impregnate another RIU member.


Lol get april, kuroi, or Sunni pregnant, they will take care of the baby, or put it up for adoption. Either way it's good. 
Don't get urca pregnant, lol.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> Religion specifically Christianity is the Root of All Evil. Please continue.. .


Oh man raw's on a mission to start some fighting, lol.
Please people don't thread jack, if you want make a thread entitled "Christianity is EVIL", and I will gladly participate, .


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 8, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> This has nothing to do with religion dude, please don't start an atheist vs religious thread, lol.
> This is about moral reasoning. Some believe it's moral some believe it's immoral.


Ok, that's definitely fair. But we can't be blind to the fact that religion is a major contributor for that specific moral stance, that would be dishonest.


I do have some questions that may help me understand your position more;

Is the fertilized egg a person as soon as it's fertilized?
If no, at what point does it have enough "person like" qualities to become a person?

If the fertilized egg _is _a person at conception, how come it shares virtually no similarities to what the general idea of a person is? e.g. Organs, memories etc...

How is it morally wrong to remove something from your body that would die in minutes, or even seconds without being attached to you? 

Are you in favor of the state making rules about what you _can_, and _cannot_ do with your _*own*_ body? 
If yes, are you pro-marijuana legalization? Do you think the state has the right to tell you if you can, or cannot smoke weed?

If the fetus can't survive outside of the woman's body, and is directly sustained from the mother, doesn't it seem more like an organ than a person?

Are you more-or-less against all abortions? Or just late trimester ones? 


DISCUSS! lol


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Ok, that's definitely fair. But we can't be blind to the fact that religion is a major contributor for that specific moral stance, that would be dishonest.
> 
> 
> I do have some questions that may help me understand your position more;
> ...


I'm gonna answer your questions straight forward, I'm probably gonna contradict myself, but please conclude what you will, .

Is the fertilized egg a person as soon as it's fertilized?
In my opinion that fertilized egg just beat the odds of not being given the chance of life. But in my opinion it is not a person... Yet.
Umm it becomes a person at one of the trimester, lol. I don't know exactly when.


If the fertilized egg is a person at conception....?
It is not a "person" yet, but will soon grow into one. So it doesn't look like one yet, kinda like a cannabis seed.

How is it morally wrong.....?
IMO it is morally wrong because that egg and sperm cell beat the odds of not being given the chance of life, and it is wrong for a person to take away that cells achievement. It is wrong because this fetus has no choice but to rely on the women, but it is only natural to have the baby. But some people don't care about what was meant to happen.

Are you in favor of the state making rules about what you can do with your own body?
Yes, to a certain extent. If you would like me to explain more then please ask. 

If yes, are you pro-marijuana legalization?
Yes I am.

Do you think the state has the right...?
No they do not.

If the fetus can't survive....?
It's more like a organ at the moment. 

Are you more or less against all abortions?
No, if you want me to explain please ask.

Or just late trimester ones?
IMO they are both equally immoral. 

There you have it, . I can explain alot more through each of my answers, but I'm not sure if you wanted me to or not, lol.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

420God said:


> Rape victims? Have you any idea the number of girls that are sexually assaulted everyday, most are too ashamed to ever tell anyone.


Is that really all you got from my post? I feel as though I had some valid points.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 8, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I'm gonna answer your questions straight forward, I'm probably gonna contradict myself, but please conclude what you will, .
> 
> Is the fertilized egg a person as soon as it's fertilized?
> In my opinion that fertilized egg just beat the odds of not being given the chance of life. But in my opinion it is not a person... Yet.
> ...


Beat the odds? It's 2 cells dude. EVERY living cell beat the odds of not being alive, why not the compassion for your poor liver cells whenever you take a drink, or smoke weed?
Each sperm may have a low chance, but combined the odds are pretty "god damn not too bad".

"Beating the odds" doesn't morally validate something in my opinion. How is that a valid moral qualifier? Can you name any other situation where, "beating the odds", makes something either morally right, or morally wrong? 



> Are you in favor of the state making rules about what you can do with your own body?
> Yes, to a certain extent. If you would like me to explain more then please ask.


I'm asking. lol

But first, how can the state have no right to tell you what to do with your body on one subject, and not on the other when the two are so very similar? 



> If the fetus can't survive....?
> It's more like a organ at the moment


There's no situation that I could possibly think of where someone else, ANYONE else, has jurisdiction over one of my organs.




> Are you more or less against all abortions?
> No, if you want me to explain please ask.


I read what you said about rape, etc... and I'm glad you agree with abortion under those circumstances. 




> Or just late trimester ones?
> IMO they are both equally immoral.


Late trimester abortions bother me, the baby would have a reasonable chance to survive at that age. However, taking 'the morning after pill', is just a shot of hormones, and the little clump of cells gets passed out. I just don't see how that's immoral....


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## Nusky (Oct 8, 2011)

if the mother doesn't want the baby in the first place, she's not going to take proper care of it and the kid will grow up to be a misfit if it grows up at all. It's just better to abort it.


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## Prefontaine (Oct 8, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I'm against it, let the debating begin. no arguing, just good debates.


i think the real debate to have is at what point does the child's (or future child's) civil rights supercede the right of the mother to choose. I believe you should be able to "take out" an exceptionally misbehaved child right up to 18. anyone else?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

Nusky said:


> if the mother doesn't want the baby in the first place, she's not going to take proper care of it and the kid will grow up to be a misfit if it grows up at all. It's just better to abort it.


Why does everyone ignore adoption?


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 8, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Why does everyone ignore adoption?


Because living as an unwanted child is more cruel than not, possibly.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 8, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Why does everyone ignore adoption?


No one is ignoring it, but having to carry around a baby for nine months and leave your job (and livelihood) to birth a baby that you don't intend to keep probably seems a bit daunting for some ladies. Having a child can damage the uterus too, making it impossible to have kids at a later date.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Beat the odds? It's 2 cells dude. EVERY living cell beat the odds of not being alive, why not the compassion for your poor liver cells whenever you take a drink, or smoke weed?
> Each sperm may have a low chance, but combined the odds are pretty "god damn not too bad".
> 
> I'm saying the sperm and egg cells just did a very amazing thing and it is immoral to take that away.
> ...


Fuck my computer doesn't let me Multi-quote posts.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Because living as an unwanted child is more cruel than not, possibly.


In your opinion. Are you saying every foster kid is sad?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> No one is ignoring it, but having to carry around a baby for nine months and leave your job (and livelihood) to birth a baby that you don't intend to keep probably seems a bit daunting for some ladies. Having a child can damage the uterus too, making it impossible to have kids at a later date.


Well not everyone ignores adoption, but like nusky he didn't even suggest adoption. He just went straight for abortion.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 8, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> In your opinion. Are you saying every foster kid is sad?


What is with you in asking what I'm saying today? I just posted it. Is this the tactic you tend to take on controversial subjects? Don't expect me to play in. 

Are YOU saying that a fetus experiences more cruelty in one instant than another fetus/newborn/toddler/child/adult/senior experiences it's entire existence and THEN dies anyways?

Tough sell.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> What is with you in asking what I'm saying today? I just posted it. Is this the tactic you tend to take on controversial subjects? Don't expect me to play in.
> 
> Are YOU saying that a fetus experiences more cruelty in one instant than another fetus/newborn/toddler/child/adult/senior experiences it's entire existence and THEN dies anyways?
> 
> Tough sell.


Dude you quoted me so I felt like I should respond. sorry.
Also I didn't see the "possibly" part, my apologies sir.

I think the fetus grows into a human then the person can live a happy life. It doesn't have to be all cruel.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 8, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> What is with you in asking what I'm saying today? I just posted it. Is this the tactic you tend to take on controversial subjects? Don't expect me to play in.
> 
> Are YOU saying that a fetus experiences more cruelty in one instant than another fetus/newborn/toddler/child/adult/senior experiences it's entire existence and THEN dies anyways?
> 
> Tough sell.


Holy shit dude. 

That was fucking awesome.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 8, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Holy shit dude.
> 
> That was fucking awesome.


 Lol thanks.


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## RollMeOne420 (Oct 8, 2011)

Well we all know you were a mistake lol but if i hadn't convinced your mother to keep you, then you would never had been born. The only time i think abortion should be allowed is when a women is actually raped and the rapist is convicted of it and everything is synced together. Otherwise no abortion is bad


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> What is with you in asking what I'm saying today? I just posted it. Is this the tactic you tend to take on controversial subjects? Don't expect me to play in.
> 
> Are YOU saying that a fetus experiences more cruelty in one instant than another fetus/newborn/toddler/child/adult/senior experiences it's entire existence and THEN dies anyways?
> 
> Tough sell.


This is where morals get into the situation. You may think there is no point in life and we just dies anyways so there is no difference between a wise old man and a fetus (not saying you do,  ), while someone else may believe life means something, like what if an unborn kid would have changed the world for better place.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 8, 2011)

RollMeOne420 said:


> Otherwise no abortion is bad


[video=youtube;XfQ-3IMJ_uw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfQ-3IMJ_uw[/video]


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 8, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> This is where morals get into the situation. You may think there is no point in life and we just dies anyways so there is no difference between a wise old man and a fetus (not saying you do,  ), while someone else may believe life means something, like what if an unborn kid would have changed the world for better place.


I love when people feel the need to reply to one of my posts twice or more.  Unsatisfied with the result of the preceding response.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> I love when people feel the need to reply to one of my posts twice or more.  Unsatisfied with the result of the preceding response.


Well if you love it so much tell me what you think about it.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 8, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Well if you love it so much tell me what you think about it.


 Tell you what I think of people responding more than once? I'm sure you misspoke but I'll tell you anyways. I think that if you have to respond again instead of editing your post, you want to take another stab at it in the hopes of a better outcome. Actually, that's the only reason obviously.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> This is where morals get into the situation. You may think there is no point in life and we just dies anyways so there is no difference between a wise old man and a fetus (not saying you do,  ), while someone else may believe life means something, like what if an unborn kid would have changed the world for better place.


What are your opinions of this crypt?


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## Red1966 (Oct 8, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> This is never going to get anywhere.... the distinction between what is "life" is the deciding factor.
> 
> 
> I see absolutely zero moral problems with a woman having an abortion because I don't consider a fetus a person.
> ...


At various times, Blacks, children, women, and anyone of a different ethnic group were considered non-persons. Was slaughtering them not "morally objectionable"?
You are trying to rationalize murdering a child for the sake of your own convenience.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 8, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Tell you what I think of people responding more than once? I'm sure you misspoke but I'll tell you anyways. I think that if you have to respond again instead of editing your post, you want to take another stab at it in the hopes of a better outcome. Actually, that's the only reason obviously.


What are your opinions of this Heph?


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 8, 2011)

Red1966 said:


> At various times, Blacks, children, women, and anyone of a different ethnic group were considered non-persons. Was slaughtering them not "morally objectionable"?
> You are trying to rationalize murdering a child for the sake of your own convenience.


Murdering a child?


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## Red1966 (Oct 8, 2011)

Nusky said:


> if the mother doesn't want the baby in the first place, she's not going to take proper care of it and the kid will grow up to be a misfit if it grows up at all. It's just better to abort it.


I think you'll find that most pregnancies were unplanned and/or unwanted, but mothers love their children anyway. I propose you may be a misfit, shall we abort you?


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 8, 2011)

Red1966 said:


> shall we abort you?


Yes.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> What are your opinions of this Heph?


What? The black guy? He's funny.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 8, 2011)

[video=youtube;LckE6BrgikA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LckE6BrgikA[/video]


Nightmare, the persecution
A childs dream of death
Torment, ill forgotten
A soul that will never rest

Guidance, it means nothing
In a world of brutal time
Electric, circus wild
Deep in the infants mind

Silent scream
Bury the unwanted child
Beaten and torn
Sacrifice the unborn

Shattered, adolescent
Bearer of no name
Restrained, insane games
Suffer the children condemned

Scattered, remnants of life
Murder a time to die
Pain, suffrage toyed
Lifes little fragments destroyed

Silent scream
Crucify the bastard son
Beaten and torn
Sanctify lives of scorn

Life preordained
Humanity maintained
Extraction termination
Pains agonizing stain

Embryonic death
Embedded in your brain
Suffocation, strangulation
Death is fucking you insane

Nightmare, the persecution
A childs dream of death
Torment, ill forgotten
A soul that will never rest

Innocence withdrawn in fear
Fires burning can you hear
Cries in the night


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 8, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> What? The black guy? He's funny.





> Is that really all you got from my post? I feel as though I had some valid points.


 It's nice sometimes to show a person how hypocritical they can be, wouldn't you agree?


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## Red1966 (Oct 8, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Murdering a child?


 Yes, many of the "fetuses" that are aborted are full term babies who actually survive the abortion procedure. They are then MURDERED by immersing in ice water, breaking their necks, piercing their skull, or other means. There was a lot of testimony of this to Congress. "What you have done unto the least of my children, you have done unto me."


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 8, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> It's nice sometimes to show a person how hypocritical they can be, wouldn't you agree?


I mean what else do you want me to answer?


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Red1966 said:


> There was a lot of testimony of this to Congress. "What you have done unto the least of my children, you have done unto me."


That's a nice quote.  Very nice. I have one of my own,


> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Congress will turn a deaf ear to all the religious fervor I'm afraid. Many fetuses you say, on the magnitude of say.... less than a fraction of a single percent? There is alot of bad that comes out of the illegal drug trade, solely because it the trade is prohibited. Regulate and observe...


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> .


So Heph, I take it you against Euthanasia?


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## Nusky (Oct 9, 2011)

Red1966 said:


> I think you'll find that most pregnancies were unplanned and/or unwanted, but mothers love their children anyway. I propose you may be a misfit, shall we abort you?


 the difference is, my parents were in their 30s when they had me. They were ready to have a child anyway. At 18 or 20 and you don't want your child, you just won't treat them nicely. You constantly see in the news young parents doing fucked up things from killing them, to just straight up abusing them. It's just not fair to the child to live through that. How would you feel if your mom hated you and wanted nothing to do with you?


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## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

Nusky said:


> the difference is, my parents were in their 30s when they had me. They were ready to have a child anyway. At 18 or 20 and you don't want your child, you just won't treat them nicely. You constantly see in the news young parents doing fucked up things from killing them, to just straight up abusing them. It's just not fair to the child to live through that.* How would you feel if your mom hated you and wanted nothing to do with you?*


crypt can answer that one for you.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> crypt can answer that one for you.


 Oh snap son! And this dude says I'm a troll!


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> So Heph, I take it you against Euthanasia?


No, I'm not against Euthanasia.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> No, I'm not against Euthanasia.


So how can you condemn the killing of a fetus but not condemn said killing of a human?


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## cannabineer (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> No, I'm not against Euthanasia.


 I think that it is lovely that our young people get some international travel ... cn


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## cannabineer (Oct 9, 2011)

Some very good posts here tonight. Imo the question of personhood hits the nail on the head. Is an eight-month fetus, which is capable of unassisted survival outside the womb, a person? I cannot imagine anyone saying "no" unless that person is an administrator of mainland Chinese health care.
Is an unimplanted morula a person? Absent religious mandate the answer would be No. 
Somewhere in between these two points we need to assign personhood, but that is an arbitrary point, since the development of the embryo/fetus is essentially continuous. 
After the point where we agree to assign personhood, abortion is a form of murder. 
Before it, it is something lesser, to be weighed against consequences to the other persons involved, especially the mother. 
Theologians in the Abrahamic religions moot this argument by arguing for personhood and thus full sanctity from the moment of conception (in more practical terms implantation, but this way the "morning after" pill is designated a murder weapon). 

Regardless of what informs your moral horizon, it's a tough question. Since I view personal choice as a high ideal, I won't take a hard-line anti-abortion stance. However I don't see either wisdom or beauty in taking the issue lightly. It's less than killing someone (imo), but more thanlancing a boil. 
cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> So how can you condemn the killing of a fetus but not condemn said killing of a human?


It's rather easy to have different opinions on two extremely different subjects.
Euthanasia is a choice for the person that is going to die.
Abortion is not a choice for the fetus.


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## Red1966 (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> That's a nice quote.  Very nice. I have one of my own,
> 
> *Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. *
> Congress will turn a deaf ear to all the religious fervor I'm afraid. Many fetuses you say, on the magnitude of say.... less than a fraction of a single percent? There is alot of bad that comes out of the illegal drug trade, solely because it the trade is prohibited. Regulate and observe...


Uh, what does your quote have to do with the topic? You seem to think only the religious are against abortion. You trivialize the murder of children? You have no soul.


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Hephaestus, what, if anything, did my quote have to do with my response?


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

Nusky said:


> the difference is, my parents were in their 30s when they had me. They were ready to have a child anyway. At 18 or 20 and you don't want your child, you just won't treat them nicely. You constantly see in the news young parents doing fucked up things from killing them, to just straight up abusing them. It's just not fair to the child to live through that. How would you feel if your mom hated you and wanted nothing to do with you?


If I was that kid I would feel just fine, honestly. I would call CPS and snitch out my mom for abusing me.


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Hephaestus, what, if anything, did my quote have to do with my response?


Dude I didn't say anything about your quote having anything to do with your response. Wait, I'm confused.


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> It's rather easy to have different opinions on two extremely different subjects.
> Euthanasia is a choice for the person that is going to die.
> Abortion is not a choice for the fetus.


Two different subjects with the same core topic, killing. You're saying that you hold the killing of human above the killing of a fetus. That's the truth.

So I ask you again,
How can you condemn the killing of a fetus but not condemn said killing of a human?

Dog's can at least choose whether or not it wants to die, and actively express said choice, but we still Euthanize them.


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Dude I didn't say anything about your quote having anything to do with your response. Wait, I'm confused.


Sorry, I'm asking you, as an outside opinion if you think my quote had anything to with my response. He seems to think it didn't so I wanted it to be fair.


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Sorry, I'm asking you, as an outside opinion if you think my quote had anything to with my response. He seems to think it didn't so I wanted it to be fair.


 Uhhhh, I don't know I wasn't following you guys, lol. I just saw red post something, you respond and red claims you don't stick to the topic of you guys argument. I must say both of you are on topic with y'all's or you's (lol) argument.
Ehh I respect both of you enough to keep my 2 cents in my pocket, .


----------



## Beefbisquit (Oct 9, 2011)

Red1966 said:


> Yes, many of the "fetuses" that are aborted are full term babies who actually survive the abortion procedure. They are then MURDERED by immersing in ice water, breaking their necks, piercing their skull, or other means. There was a lot of testimony of this to Congress. "What you have done unto the least of my children, you have done unto me."


Yeah.... I don't think that's credible.


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I must say both of you are on topic with y'all's or you's (lol) argument.


Bingo! Thank you good sir.


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Red1966 said:


> You have no soul.


Soul.  That's cute. Neither do you or any of us. Alas, that is a very different topic. So you should all just stop trying to drag it in to this one.


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Two different subjects with the same core topic, killing. You're saying that you hold the killing of human above the killing of a fetus. That's the truth.
> 
> So I ask you again,
> How can you condemn the killing of a fetus but not condemn said killing of a human?
> ...


Euthanasia is killing someone because they are suffering a great deal from a disease, 
Abortion is killing a fetus that could have been the next president of the world.

I'm against killing dogs, lol.

Just because they both have to do with killing doesn't mean they're the same.
You can kill an innocent person, or you can kill a nazi that was gonna blow up an orphans home. Ones good and ones bad.


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

I spy with my little eye, thread jacking!!!!


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Soul.  That's cute. Neither do you or any of us. Alas, that is a very different topic. So you should all just stop trying to drag it in to this one.


Gingers don't have souls, lol.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

as if being president is anything special.

maybe the dead fetus was gonna be a serial killer who would have ended up killing the guy who cures cancer.


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Abortion is killing a fetus that could have been the next president of the world.


Thank god! *minimal sarcasm* Fuckin' A Bitches! Gettin' that dictator son of a bitch before he hatches! That shit's fuckin' AMERICAN! x) No really, that's a fucking fantastic thing to do.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

Alright so what have we learned so far? Nothing? Lol.


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## Red1966 (Oct 9, 2011)

I don't understand what the First Amendment has to do with abortion. And you're the one who keeps dragging in religion.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

i think people's emotions prevent us from killing more people who really need to be killed.

as if it matters once they're dead.


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Alright so what have we learned so far? Nothing? Lol.


 You expected to LEARN something? A debate about abortion?

YOU FAILED!
[video=youtube;mJc30Cv_WBA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJc30Cv_WBA[/video]


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Red1966 said:


> I don't understand what the First Amendment has to do with abortion. And you're the one who keeps dragging in religion.


I suppose the appropriate response to this would be 'You don't understand because you don't want to'.


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

Guys religion doesn't have shit to do with this, so drop it.


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> You expected to LEARN something? A debate about abortion?
> 
> YOU FAILED!
> [video=youtube;mJc30Cv_WBA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJc30Cv_WBA[/video]


I expected to gain a new insight on abortion. But nope.


----------



## Red1966 (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> I suppose the appropriate response to this would be 'You don't understand because you don't want to'.


 Lame, is that the best you got?


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Red1966 said:


> Lame, is that the best you got?


It's not what's best sir. Understand that. It's what's appropriate. 'best' is a subjective term, 'appropriate' is neutral.  Stop looking for a fight.


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Guys religion doesn't have shit to do with this, so drop it.


Quite true sir.


----------



## Red1966 (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> It's not what's best sir. Understand that. It's what's appropriate. 'best' is a subjective term, 'appropriate' is neutral.  Stop looking for a fight.


Wasn't even appropriate. You're implying that the First Amendment related to the topic. "*You don't understand because you don't want to"* is insulting.
So what's the First Amendment got to do with Abortion?


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Red1966 said:


> Wasn't even appropriate. You're implying that the First Amendment related to the topic. "*You don't understand because you don't want to"* is insulting.
> So what's the First Amendment got to do with Abortion?


This is how I was responding. 







So either what you said in the quote wasn't related to the topic either, or my response was on topic.


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> This is how I was responding.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Both, you are in the twilight zone.


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Both, you are in the twilight zone.


 The 'separation of church and state clause'.  Religious morality will not be observed by Congress. Therefor all I was saying is that it's not pertinent to a discussion on abortion.


----------



## Red1966 (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> This is how I was responding.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I forgot you have no soul. Nevermind.


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Red1966 said:


> I forgot you have no soul. Nevermind.


You seemed to have forgotten alot. lol Glad you remembered.


----------



## Red1966 (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> The 'separation of church and state clause'.  Religious morality will not be observed by Congress. Therefor all I was saying is that it's not pertinent to a discussion on abortion.


 Morality is observed by Congress. Our whole legal system is based on some "morality" or concept of right and wrong.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Red1966 said:


> Morality is observed by Congress. Our whole legal system is based on some "morality" or concept of right and wrong.


If you can't even read there isn't any reason to continue posting.


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)




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## Red1966 (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> If you can't even read there isn't any reason to continue posting.


 ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

Red1966 said:


> ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


My exact thoughts on this whole page, lol.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

crypt should have been an abortion.


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## xKuroiTaimax (Oct 9, 2011)

Ooh, got into a debate about this on another forum. I can't believe I read an article showing an aborted 24-week foetus, then read another about a baby safe and well after being born at 21 weeks.... *shudder*

"Ultimately, I think there's a point where humans shouldn't interfere or play god. When I look at all the people I know, I can't help but wonder how many people are 'missing' from the world. It's scary to think that because abortion is such an everyday thing now, that from the moment a baby is created the threat of being killed before it's even born exists. As if all those alive today 'escaped' abortion. Jeremiah says 'I alone know the thoughts and plans I have for you, thoughts of love to bring you to a good end', such a shame to kill something before it can fulfil its purpose. I mean, my mother had me young and we had no money, the easy thing would have been to have me aborted. We have major issues with the ageing population, because we're simply not having enough babies. I'm talking about healthy, responsible, financially stable adults, not 15 year olds on a council estate with 10 kids. If there are too many people for a country to support, then people simply need to use contraception more effectively or jusr stop getting freaky every five minutes. Now if you realise after the fact you accidentally slept with your long lost brother and/or the baby could be born severely handicapped then I'd consider it. But it depends on how far into gestation you are. Personally I think whilst it is still an EMBRYO and not a FOETUS it is still just a jumbled ball of cells, not a baby and no worse than having a period every month. I'm fine with contraception for that reason too. I have actually seen footage of an abortion at 20 weeks (considered acceptible) but It was horrific- it was definitely recognisable as a baby with fingers and a simple face etc... They had to cut it in half, rip it, to get it out. How the hell could anyone do that? What must thar woman have been thinking seeing her BABY pulled out of her in little bloody pieces? I couldn't do it. Especially if I had subsequent children, the whole 'what if' theoretical scenario would be played out in front of me. I couldn't take care of kids knowing I'd killed and taken away one of their siblings. If the woman's life is at risk then it's up to them if they want to make a selfish decision, though one could argue it'd be a greater loss to the family if the mother died. Even as a victim of multiple sexual assualts, I keep asking myself if I could do it if I had to and the answer is no. It's rediculous how work and childcare is gone about in my country, we need to sort out our priorities, living in a world where you can't have a family. I understand the inconvenience of maternity leave etc for employers, but should we need a five/six figure salary and be nearing 40 before we can consider the sensibility of something as natural as having a baby."


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## 420God (Oct 9, 2011)

In China they make fetus soup.


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## beardo (Oct 9, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> The med tech for safe abortion exists, . cn


That's awsome, it's about time they came out with safe abortions because the kind where the preagnant lady and the doctor murder the baby is wrong. How do a safe abortion? Do they put the baby in an incubator after they take it out? Does the baby go to an orphanage after? I'm glad to hear that they now have safe abortions, now they should ban the old fashioned ones that kill people.


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## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I'm against it, let the debating begin. no arguing, just good debates.


 daps dude, you opend your legs he droped his pants( or stuck it threw) and inserted, spooge occured, childs voice cant be heard in the belly, so why do it? i was once in the belly and was given the chance to be hurd. let the child live and wait till its of age to decide if it want to live or commite suicide.simple. there are so many programs out there for pregos i see them all the time down at the food stamp office. ppl are poppping them out left and right just to get government money. o and this kids are wearing a hundred dollar clothes no lie. yes the system is being misused but that is a kid that could in turn do alot of good. he/she could thank you one day with a house or something


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## 420God (Oct 9, 2011)

Lol, some of you guys are funny. You think sex is planned out and never spontaneous, never nailed a girl in a night club bathroom or on a plane.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

"abortion is wrong because that kid could grow up to be something special some day."


is this really part of the argument?


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## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

just stating shit that can happen. hey if you believe in murder ill hand you a gun its in my kitchen


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## Winter Woman (Oct 9, 2011)

Let's not forget that the righties are trying to stop the use of some birth control pills that allow an egg to be fertilized, but not be allowed to implant. If I remember correctly they account for about 30 to 40 percent of all birth control pills. But, that might not be the correct number. 

Not every ejaculation deserves a name.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

silasraven said:


> just stating shit that can happen. hey if you believe in murder ill hand you a gun its in my kitchen


like i said earlier, ... maybe the baby YOU saved grows up to be a brutal killer, or worse yet, a child molester because he was never loved due to the fact that he was UNWANTED.


are we shooting fetuses?


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## cannabineer (Oct 9, 2011)

beardo said:


> That's awsome, it's about time they came out with safe abortions because the kind where the preagnant lady and the doctor murder the baby is wrong. How do a safe abortion? Do they put the baby in an incubator after they take it out? Does the baby go to an orphanage after? I'm glad to hear that they now have safe abortions, now they should ban the old fashioned ones that kill people.


My other post about personhood (which went unremarked) addresses your questions. It challenges the common contortion of reason that equates all abortions with killing someone. cn


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## Winter Woman (Oct 9, 2011)

No it's not. Congress has the morals of a hungry whoremonger on the prowl.


Red1966 said:


> Morality is observed by Congress. Our whole legal system is based on some "morality" or concept of right and wrong.


----------



## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

hey all im saying is if you dont want a kid..1 condom,2 pill, 3 masterbate before sex, soak nuts in hot water everday or just drink alot of mt dew something about yellow dye number5(or some #) kills sperm. and the pill that cant implant screw that,that raises alot of issues. how about a pill that kills the sperm or something. o and guys get spermicide. there are so many ways to fuck without having a kid


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## Winter Woman (Oct 9, 2011)

This argument is the reason I tend to lean towards Libertarians. 

I do what I want with my body, you do want you want to yours. Easy.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 9, 2011)

This forum is full of potheads who scream bloody murder about the gov. not letting them do what they want with their own bodies (smoking weed), but insist that the government has legal authority over what women can do with their own bodies (get an abortion).


The government either has the legal authority to mandate how you use your body, and what you put into it - or they don't. Too many people want to have their cake, and eat it too...


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 9, 2011)

silasraven said:


> hey all im saying is if you dont want a kid..1 condom,2 pill, 3 masterbate before sex, soak nuts in hot water everday or just drink alot of mt dew something about yellow dye number5(or some #) kills sperm. and the pill that cant implant screw that,that raises alot of issues. how about a pill that kills the sperm or something. o and guys get spermicide. there are so many ways to fuck without having a kid



Male Birthcontrol IS being developed.... I read somewhere there's a needle in development you can get that stops sperm production somehow for a few months.... then everything goes back to normal....


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## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

dude i get blood tests all the time ill take the needle so she dont get prego. though not sure where they want to stick it, im sure the nuts ouch but hay if im allowed to make love with out a rubber then fine


----------



## Beefbisquit (Oct 9, 2011)

I wonder if pro-lifers consider jerking off genocide.... or if getting a BJ where the chick swallows is considered cannibalism? lol


----------



## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

fuck i dont but thats funny as fuck


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> I wonder if pro-lifers consider jerking off genocide.... or if getting a BJ where the chick swallows is considered cannibalism? lol


Ha, that's funny.
But no I don't think it's genocide nor a bj is cannibalism. 
The sperm cell isn't a fetus, it's just a sperm cell.


----------



## Beefbisquit (Oct 9, 2011)

"You just ate 250,000 of my potential children, WHORE!" *SLAP*


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 9, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> This forum is full of potheads who scream bloody murder about the gov. not letting them do what they want with their own bodies (smoking weed), but insist that the government has legal authority over what women can do with their own bodies (get an abortion).
> 
> 
> The government either has the legal authority to mandate how you use your body, and what you put into it - or they don't. Too many people want to have their cake, and eat it too...


When you smoke weed you only affect yourself, when you abort a fetus you killed a potential human.


----------



## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

i wish i could add a dozen more likes your making my day better


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## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

when i don't bang your mom it's a missed opportunity to potentially create a new president. 


wonderful logic going on here.


----------



## Beefbisquit (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> When you smoke weed you only affect yourself, when you abort a fetus you killed a potential human.


Ok, so at least we made a distinction between a sperm, and a fetus. 

From what I've gathered so far from this discussion, is it's more about the "possibility" of a person than anything else. It's *not *a person, but it *will *be. 


That doesn't make a compelling argument to me whatsoever. It's admitting, outright, that the embryo/fetus to a certain point isn't a human. We don't give animal rights to eggs, because they're not animals.... they're eggs. Just like we don't give human rights to human eggs and embryos, because they're not human.


----------



## Red1966 (Oct 9, 2011)

420God said:


> Lol, some of you guys are funny. You think sex is planned out and never spontaneous, never nailed a girl in a night club bathroom or on a plane.


 Serious lack of responsibility here.


----------



## Red1966 (Oct 9, 2011)

Winter Woman said:


> No it's not. Congress has the morals of a hungry whoremonger on the prowl.


 That's true. Perhaps I should have said it differently. How about the laws passed by Congress are based on some "morality" or concept of right and wrong?


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## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

come on its a person from the moment a sperm hits the egg. at that point its making its ways to getting a personality(in detail) getting its feet and arms planted you would take a little embro you got growing in its first week and kill it would you?


----------



## april (Oct 9, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> I wonder if pro-lifers consider jerking off genocide.... or if getting a BJ where the chick swallows is considered cannibalism? lol


And i will never swallow again 

I luv how men can freely debate such a delicate subject, i guess not actualy being able to ever face this choice makes it easy to say what u think is right or wrong. But it all comes down to what she feels is appropriate for her, making the choice to have an abortion does not end when the procedure does. I've seen girls (i would not call them women ) freak the fuck out after the fact, they will always think about how old the child would be, what he/she would be like, some girls even melt down and need help dealing with what they decided to do. I think birth control and condoms should be free. I have such mixed feelings on this subject, i think women should have the right to decide but only if they were responsible and used a method of birthcontrol and it failed (sexual assault victims should always have the choice ) We live in a society of finger pointers, i can only imagine how many women have blammed men when telling the doc why they need an abortion. 

Well here is a solution, only husbands/long term partners can actualy penetrate the vagina, all others must use the back door  Remember folks it only takes a dribble


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

its upto the individual wether they have an abortion or not, its there body and there life , no one should be forced to have a child if they dont want one ( yes and accidents happen ) to me a person isnt a person untill they have succsefully been born .


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## Red1966 (Oct 9, 2011)

Winter Woman said:


> This argument is the reason I tend to lean towards Libertarians.
> 
> I do what I want with my body, you do want you want to yours. Easy.


 It's not your body you're chopping up and flushing down the toilet, it's someone elses.


----------



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> And i will never swallow again
> 
> I luv how men can freely debate such a delicate subject, i guess not actualy being able to ever face this choice makes it easy to say what u think is right or wrong. But it all comes down to what she feels is appropriate for her, making the choice to have an abortion does not end when the procedure does. I've seen girls (i would not call them women ) freak the fuck out after the fact, they will always think about how old the child would be, what he/she would be like, some girls even melt down and need help dealing with what they decided to do. I think birth control and condoms should be free. I have such mixed feelings on this subject, i think women should have the right to decide but only if they were responsible and used a method of birthcontrol and it failed (sexual assault victims should always have the choice ) We live in a society of finger pointers, i can only imagine how many women have blammed men when telling the doc why they need an abortion.
> 
> Well here is a solution, only husbands/long term partners can actualy penetrate the vagina, all others must use the back door  Remember folks it only takes a dribble


you go on like the woman is the only one in the equation , yes she has to give birth to the baby ( wich i would of done given the choice ) but the male has just as much responsibilty as the mother , without either the baby would never of been possible , and i happen to believe men go through just as much mental stress as the woman .


----------



## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> And i will never swallow again
> 
> I luv how men can freely debate such a delicate subject, i guess not actualy being able to ever face this choice makes it easy to say what u think is right or wrong. But it all comes down to what she feels is appropriate for her, making the choice to have an abortion does not end when the procedure does. I've seen girls (i would not call them women ) freak the fuck out after the fact, they will always think about how old the child would be, what he/she would be like, some girls even melt down and need help dealing with what they decided to do. I think birth control and condoms should be free. I have such mixed feelings on this subject, i think women should have the right to decide but only if they were responsible and used a method of birthcontrol and it failed (sexual assault victims should always have the choice ) We live in a society of finger pointers, i can only imagine how many women have blammed men when telling the doc why they need an abortion.
> 
> Well here is a solution, only husbands/long term partners can actualy penetrate the vagina, all others must use the back door  Remember folks it only takes a dribble


so a "couple" can't walk down this road together?

how selfish.


----------



## 420God (Oct 9, 2011)

Red1966 said:


> It's not your body you're chopping up and flushing down the toilet, it's someone elses.


 Who are you to say it isn't?


----------



## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> you go on like the woman is the only one in the equation , yes she has to give birth to the baby ( wich i would of done given the choice ) but the male has just as much responsibilty as the mother , without either the baby would never of been possible , and i happen to believe men go through just as much mental stress as the woman .


no way dude, men have no feelings. other then if the chick is hot or not.


----------



## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

sorry i couldnt handle the mental shit of an abortion, if she ever got one id go further into a depleted mental state. my step brother is dead cool guy all around i see so many guys that look like him. thats bad enough facing the fact a child that could have been. that hurts just to think of i am a dude that being my child no no no


----------



## 420God (Oct 9, 2011)




----------



## Beefbisquit (Oct 9, 2011)

silasraven said:


> come on its a person from the moment a sperm hits the egg. at that point its making its ways to getting a personality(in detail) getting its feet and arms planted you would take a little embro you got growing in its first week and kill it would you?



How the hell is it a person? It literally shares almost nothing in common with a person, it's a clump of multiplying cells. It doesn't have organs, or consciousness, or thought, or a body for that matter... it doesn't have any of those things until it actually develops the organs far enough along to use them properly.


----------



## april (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> you go on like the woman is the only one in the equation , yes she has to give birth to the baby ( wich i would of done given the choice ) but the male has just as much responsibilty as the mother , without either the baby would never of been possible , and i happen to believe men go through just as much mental stress as the woman .


Of course this would be very difficult for the sperm donor(male) to deal with, I don't think i ever said otherwise , but it comes down to who's body the fetus is growing in when abortion is in question. Would u let someone decide what u can and can't do with ur body? How about this (just a random exemple lol) u meet ur dream girl and ends she is knocked up, 2months the man she was with forces her to have the child because he wants it, but she claims he was very abusive and she had to get away for her safety, how would this make u feel as a male? (if u are one lol sorry assuming  ) I know pretty extreme exemple lmfao but I very curious as to why men think they have equal if not more say over a womens body??????? U don't own it, u just donated sperm, if u did not want children then u could have taken all sorts of measures to try and prevent this, but if it does happen i feel a mans rights only come into play as equal parent after the child is born. When the bun is brewing inside me IT BELONGS TO ME!!! lol


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## Red1966 (Oct 9, 2011)

420God said:


> Who are you to say it isn't?


 One person can own another? Are you pro-slavery, too?


----------



## 420God (Oct 9, 2011)

Red1966 said:


> One person can own another? Are you pro-slavery, too?


 Lol, it ain't a person till it's born. In the mean time it is part of the mother.


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## Winter Woman (Oct 9, 2011)

Like I said earlier that the pro-lifers are trying to get some birth control pills banned because they allow fertilization, but not implantation. Is that abortion to you?


Beefbisquit said:


> Ok, so at least we made a distinction between a sperm, and a fetus.
> 
> From what I've gathered so far from this discussion, is it's more about the "possibility" of a person than anything else. It's *not *a person, but it *will *be.
> 
> ...


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## father&son (Oct 9, 2011)

fuck all pro choice....IM PRO LIFE IF YOU DNT WANNA KID DONT HAVE SEX PLAIN AND SIMPLE,,,,,IT S NOT THE BABYS FAULT HE OR SHE HAS BEN CONSIVED Y KILL THEM ITS MUDER PLAIN AND SIMPLE PUT THE DRS. IN JAIL THAT PRACTICE IT,,,,,,,,,


----------



## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

Red1966 said:


> One person can own another? Are you pro-slavery, too?


 your mom took care of you and owned you


----------



## april (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> so a "couple" can't walk down this road together?
> 
> how selfish.


I'm only selfish with my cookies and milk chocolate!!

Yes if the man wants his opinions and views heard the women should certainly listen and make her choice based on his feelings and views if they are happy together(see this is why i don't do casual or random sex) but if abortion is already being talked about then how could this couple be on the "right path" or even ready??? Having a child should not include debating it's existence to begin with, both parents should be overwhelmed with excitment and fear but not question if they should even have it. Most couples are devastated if they loose the child. So saying that i feel that if abortion is being talked about then ultimately he will not influence her choice (unless this was her way of getting a ring)


----------



## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> I'm only selfish with my cookies and milk chocolate!!
> 
> Yes if the man wants his opinions and views heard the women should certainly listen and make her choice based on his feelings and views if they are happy together(see this is why i don't do casual or random sex) but if abortion is already being talked about then how could this couple be on the "right path" or even ready??? Having a child should not include debating it's existence to begin with, both parents should be overwhelmed with excitment and fear but not question if they should even have it. Most couples are devastated if they loose the child. So saying that i feel that if abortion is being talked about then ultimately he will not influence her choice (unless this was her way of getting a ring)




you can't imagine one situation where a man and a women would decide TOGETHER? 


i really have nothing to say to that.


----------



## april (Oct 9, 2011)

father&son said:


> fuck all pro choice....IM PRO LIFE IF YOU DNT WANNA KID DONT HAVE SEX PLAIN AND SIMPLE,,,,,IT S NOT THE BABYS FAULT HE OR SHE HAS BEN CONSIVED Y KILL THEM ITS MUDER PLAIN AND SIMPLE PUT THE DRS. IN JAIL THAT PRACTICE IT,,,,,,,,,


Whats about victims of sexual assault? should they be forced to raise a possible rapist or even worse? how could this women ever love this child ?? she would hate herself for not being able to be a mother, I hope ur daughter,mother,sister, any female u love is never raped, let me guess u toss them into the "tainted pile" lol Better yet lets hope u never get bent over lmfao, sorry but people like u make me laugh, get off ur horse and face reality.I wish i could murder ur narrow views


----------



## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> Whats about victims of sexual assault? should they be forced to raise a possible rapist or even worse? how could this women ever love this child ?? she would hate herself for not being able to be a mother, I hope ur daughter,mother,sister, any female u love is never raped, let me guess u toss them into the "tainted pile" lol Better yet lets hope u never get bent over lmfao, sorry but people like u make me laugh, get off ur horse and face reality.I wish i could murder ur narrow views


being a victim of sexual assault causes one to have rapist babies?

are you drunk again?


----------



## 420God (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> Whats about victims of sexual assault? should they be forced to raise a possible rapist or even worse? how could this women ever love this child ?? she would hate herself for not being able to be a mother, I hope ur daughter,mother,sister, any female u love is never raped, let me guess u toss them into the "tainted pile" lol Better yet lets hope u never get bent over lmfao, sorry but people like u make me laugh, get off ur horse and face reality.I wish i could murder ur narrow views


 This guy, Kenneth Knippel of Wausau, Wi, was an offspring of rape. His mom was raped by her brother and since she was young was forced to keep it.

He grew up to sexually assault over a dozen women and left one for dead after raping her with a crowbar.


----------



## 420God (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> being a victim of sexual assault causes one to have rapist babies?
> 
> are you drunk again?


 Not always, but people born with mental issues are more likely to do it.


----------



## april (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> you can't imagine one situation where a man and a women would decide TOGETHER?
> 
> 
> i really have nothing to say to that.


Unless her being pregnant could kill her i can't see very many situations that justify abortion, adoption seems like a better idea in many situations, my mom and step brother are adopted, hell if my grandmother had gotten an abortion (she was 13 and a whore lmfao) i would not be here FDD  

If i was a man and my wife had an abortion without consulting me i would probably leave her!!!! But again i ask the question why men think they have the right to an opinion on what a women does with her body!!!! Regarless of my relationship status my body is my own, will never belong to anyone, i might allow someone to pleasure me and themselves by touching it but they will never own it I feel that the baby they create together is what they share equally


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## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

420God said:


> Not always, but people born with mental issues are more likely to do it.


people who could be born by anyone. 

some of the worst killers have come from the nicest homes.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> Unless her being pregnant could kill her i can't see very many situations that justify abortion, adoption seems like a better idea in many situations, my mom and step brother are adopted, hell if my grandmother had gotten an abortion (she was 13 and a whore lmfao) i would not be here FDD
> 
> If i was a man and my wife had an abortion without consulting me i would probably leave her!!!! But again i ask the question why men think they have the right to an opinion on what a women does with her body!!!! Regarless of my relationship status my body is my own, will never belong to anyone, i might allow someone to pleasure me and themselves by touching it but they will never own it I feel that the baby they create together is what they share equally


so what if you weren't here.

in all honesty.

so what if none of us were here.



your body, your right. until you DEMAND child support.


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## 420God (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> people who could be born by anyone.
> 
> some of the worst killers have come from the nicest homes.


 True. If I was a rape victim that was impregnated I wouldn't take the chance though and that right should never be taken away from a woman if ever in that situation.


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## april (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> being a victim of sexual assault causes one to have rapist babies?
> 
> are you drunk again?


Not always but it does happen very often Mental issues that cause people to do these things are usualy passed on.


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## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

ok i got the problem solved! chicks dildo's/pocket rocket. dudes pocket pussy/ blowup doll


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## april (Oct 9, 2011)

420God said:


> This guy, Kenneth Knippel of Wausau, Wi, was an offspring of rape. His mom was raped by her brother and since she was young was forced to keep it.
> 
> He grew up to sexually assault over a dozen women and left one for dead after raping her with a crowbar.


And abortion would have taken 1 "life", compared to the dozens this "person" was allowed to take, wait it was his birth right and destiny right??? lmfao

I say we start chopping off hands and shit, jail is prep school for criminals, fuck these horrible sex offenders we should burn off all their fun parts and force them to watch really good porn for eternity!!!


----------



## cannabineer (Oct 9, 2011)

silasraven said:


> ok i got the problem solved! chicks dildo's/pocket rocket. dudes pocket pussy/ blowup doll


 
Somehow that lacks the raw edgy appeal of unplanned unprotected sex with a living breathing member of the other plumbing plan. cn


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## Red1966 (Oct 9, 2011)

420God said:


> Lol, it ain't a person till it's born. In the mean time it is part of the mother.


 That's the whole debate. Your opinion is not the deciding factor. Also, in a partial birth abortion, the baby is 90% outside the mothers body when it's killed (sometimes illegal organ harvesting is done at this stage). That's when all goes as planned. Sometimes the baby is completely outside the mother's body when it's killed. This is still MURDER under U.S. law, but no abortionist has been prosecuted for it. After all, we don't want do anything that might interfere with a woman's sacred right to be irresponsible. It might make it harder to get laid. And we sure don't want to have to support the children that are the result of OUR irresponsible behavior.


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## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> Somehow that lacks the raw edgy appeal of unplanned unprotected sex with a living breathing member of the other plumbing plan. cn


 hey it solves unwantedness,


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## april (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> so what if you weren't here.
> 
> in all honesty.
> 
> ...


Ya child support, not April support  If he wants equal parental rights he can pay the peanuts in child support the government not me asks for, if he was a real man we would be together and he would be paying much more anyways lmfao , raising a child is not about money, it's about love, a loving parent will always provide what a child needs, not wants.
Children of divorced parents are spoiled and demanding, hell they can spend 1 week at mom and next at dads, i've seen it work then child support is not needed.


----------



## Red1966 (Oct 9, 2011)

silasraven said:


> your mom took care of you and owned you


 Is that why she sold me to Gypsies?


----------



## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

probly got paid in peanuts, APRIL you know how hard it is just to find a woman,faithful, motivated ect who will actually be with a person and love them. im in a relationship of 4 years and its kool but i swear sometimes i feel like a teadybear. o and this has nothing to do with sex, just someone who will be there.


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## 420God (Oct 9, 2011)

Red1966 said:


> That's the whole debate. Your opinion is not the deciding factor. Also, in a partial birth abortion, the baby is 90% outside the mothers body when it's killed (sometimes illegal organ harvesting is done at this stage). That's when all goes as planned. Sometimes the baby is completely outside the mother's body when it's killed. This is still MURDER under U.S. law, but no abortionist has been prosecuted for it. After all, we don't want do anything that might interfere with a woman's sacred right to be irresponsible. It might make it harder to get laid. And we sure don't want to have to support the children that are the result of OUR irresponsible behavior.



I kinda think that's part of another debate. Although I am pro-choice, I agree it shouldn't be waited on so long into the pregnancy for it to be done.

When a child can live without the body of the mother then it is a life of it's own and shouldn't be terminated.


----------



## xKuroiTaimax (Oct 9, 2011)

Winter Woman said:


> Let's not forget that the righties are trying to stop the use of some birth control pills that allow an egg to be fertilized, but not be allowed to implant. If I remember correctly they account for about 30 to 40 percent of all birth control pills. But, that might not be the correct number.
> 
> Not every ejaculation deserves a name.


Weird. I'm against abortion but an embryo is not a baby. It's just a blob of cells. That's like saying a woman kills a baby having her period every month- the only difference is someone else's cell in there and a little division. The anti-contraception thing is completely ridiculous.


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## jceed (Oct 9, 2011)

One thing I've noticed is how you feel afterwards isn't really mentioned very often. I am pro-choice, and my gf and I decided to terminate a pregnancy. I would probably still do it if I could go back, but it is probably the most messed up thing I've ever experienced. I'll never, ever, ever forget it.

On the other hand, I'm not pro life in any way. I think it's wrong that every person in the world is, by default, saved, or forced to live (depending on the situation). The human race is over populating the world because we simply don't have survival anymore. While I don't want people to die, or die myself, there needs to be laws of nature. Due to our higher development we found ways to circumvent these rules, and in the long run it will be the death of all human, all other animals/ living things on the planet, and the planet itself. Simply put, the human race is greedy, and is most likely the worst thing to ever happen to the Earth. We will single-handedly destroy our world.


----------



## cannabineer (Oct 9, 2011)

silasraven said:


> hey it solves unwantedness,


I hope you accept this with the spirit of levity with which i offer this observation, but ...
... that's like curing sore feet by amputation. 
cn


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## silasraven (Oct 9, 2011)

lol bro i know exactly what you mean. worst mistake ever


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## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

420God said:


> True. If I was a rape victim that was impregnated I wouldn't take the chance though and that right should never be taken away from a woman if ever in that situation.


take what chance?


----------



## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> Not always but it does happen very often Mental issues that cause people to do these things are usualy passed on.


thank you for believing in abortion. i have a feeling it's helped.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> And abortion would have taken 1 "life", compared to the dozens this "person" was allowed to take, wait it was his birth right and destiny right??? lmfao
> 
> I say we start chopping off hands and shit, jail is prep school for criminals, fuck these horrible sex offenders we should burn off all their fun parts and force them to watch really good porn for eternity!!!


i say we start screen fetuses in the womb and never let the problems start to begin with.

still lovin' this logic.


----------



## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> Ya child support, not April support  If he wants equal parental rights he can pay the peanuts in child support the government not me asks for, if he was a real man we would be together and he would be paying much more anyways lmfao , raising a child is not about money, it's about love, a loving parent will always provide what a child needs, not wants.
> Children of divorced parents are spoiled and demanding, hell they can spend 1 week at mom and next at dads, i've seen it work then child support is not needed.


equal parent rights once YOU decide if he becomes a parent or not. 

no need to explain anything to me. i get it.


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## cannabineer (Oct 9, 2011)

jceed said:


> One thing I've noticed is how you feel afterwards isn't really mentioned very often. I am pro-choice, and my gf and I decided to terminate a pregnancy. I would probably still do it if I could go back, but it is probably the most messed up thing I've ever experienced. I'll never, ever, ever forget it.
> 
> On the other hand, I'm not pro life in any way. I think it's wrong that every person in the world is, by default, saved, or forced to live (depending on the situation). The human race is over populating the world because we simply don't have survival anymore. While I don't want people to die, or die myself, there needs to be laws of nature. Due to our higher development we found ways to circumvent these rules, and in the long run it will be the death of all human, all other animals/ living things on the planet, and the planet itself. Simply put, the human race is greedy, and is most likely the worst thing to ever happen to the Earth. We will single-handedly destroy our world.


 
Agree entirely with the first paragraph ... it's a big reason why I never take this topic lightly. (Ignore my previous post if needed, ~grin~.)

As to the second ... two opinions. 1) I don't think we're the worst thing to happen to this planet. Our agro-industrial economy is forcing huge changes in a geological eyeblink, but who's to say that that is unmitigated disaster? perhaps these are Gaia's birthing pains as she squeezes out something ... awesome, no longer limited to planets.
Shit this is some good weed.
2) Never underestimate the capacity of individuals and their societies to learn. If the climate heads south, we will adapt. If the ecosystem gets pruned back to the trunk, it will adapt, and soon we will have the capacity to restore it. If the world catches war-fire as we scrap over diminishing respources, we will survive and rebuild a society that uses what's available. We are still a very young species. 
cn


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> Of course this would be very difficult for the sperm donor(male) to deal with, I don't think i ever said otherwise , but it comes down to who's body the fetus is growing in when abortion is in question. Would u let someone decide what u can and can't do with ur body? How about this (just a random exemple lol) u meet ur dream girl and ends she is knocked up, 2months the man she was with forces her to have the child because he wants it, but she claims he was very abusive and she had to get away for her safety, how would this make u feel as a male? (if u are one lol sorry assuming  ) I know pretty extreme exemple lmfao but I very curious as to why men think they have equal if not more say over a womens body??????? U don't own it, u just donated sperm, if u did not want children then u could have taken all sorts of measures to try and prevent this, but if it does happen i feel a mans rights only come into play as equal parent after the child is born. When the bun is brewing inside me IT BELONGS TO ME!!! lol


well first of all you consented to sex so the burden of protection is on both of us , didnt you even reach down n check the sheef was on correctly ?


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## april (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> i say we start screen fetuses in the womb and never let the problems start to begin with.
> 
> still lovin' this logic.


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## 420God (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> take what chance?


 The chance that the baby would come out fucked up like the father.


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## april (Oct 9, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> well first of all you consented to sex so the burden of protection is on both of us , didnt you even reach down n check the sheef was on correctly ?


And i do accept that if i don't ptotect myself I am responsible for the child growing inside me! Did i ever say otherwise? Sorry did i miss something? lol


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## 420God (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> i say we start screen fetuses in the womb and never let the problems start to begin with.
> 
> still lovin' this logic.


Lol, they also do that in China.

~~~> http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/10/06/ultrasounds-blamed-for-asias-female-shortage/


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## Samwell Seed Well (Oct 9, 2011)

i think its hypocritical and self centered to say a rape child has less of reason to live then a pregeneracy from consenting sex

also in a country and world where the importance or life is based on your political system and financial status( the rich still had abortions when it was illegal right?) or the color of your skin to say that pro life is right when , millions of peolpe die from 

diseases and medical conditions that could be cured by raising standards of living and education in our own country and elsewhere or drunk driving or prescription pill deaths cigarettes is unethical and immoral to judge or to put a line in the sand 

until you except the world wide and local ramifications of your ideals . . . .?


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## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

420God said:


> The chance that the baby would come out fucked up like the father.



i don't think being a rapist is passed on genetically.


----------



## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

420God said:


> Lol, they also do that in China.
> 
> ~~~> http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/10/06/ultrasounds-blamed-for-asias-female-shortage/


and china is winning.

hmmmmmmmm, ....


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> When you smoke weed you only affect yourself, when you abort a fetus you killed a potential human.


Every time you jizz you kill trillions of potential humans.  Every time you take the morning after pill, you kill a potential human. Every time you go to the doctor after conception and tell him you don't want to be pregnant, you kill a potential human. Every time you go to the doctor when you learn you're pregnant, you kill a potential human. 

Cannabineer speaks of personhood. A fetus, is not a human. Potential human as you say, ya, everything has potential. I think somewhere in 2nd trimester is where the line is drawn. The nervous system is being more intensely developed, specifically pain receptors are developed.


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## Samwell Seed Well (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> Of course this would be very difficult for the sperm donor(male) to deal with, I don't think i ever said otherwise , but it comes down to who's body the fetus is growing in when abortion is in question. Would u let someone decide what u can and can't do with ur body? How about this (just a random exemple lol) u meet ur dream girl and ends she is knocked up, 2months the man she was with forces her to have the child because he wants it, but she claims he was very abusive and she had to get away for her safety, how would this make u feel as a male? (if u are one lol sorry assuming  ) I know pretty extreme exemple lmfao but I very curious as to why men think they have equal if not more say over a womens body??????? U don't own it, u just donated sperm, if u did not want children then u could have taken all sorts of measures to try and prevent this, but if it does happen i feel a mans rights only come into play as equal parent after the child is born. When the bun is brewing inside me IT BELONGS TO ME!!! lol


i was in this situation exectly almost, and i wanted to be with her so i accepted her choice her body, 

ask dude to get a visectamy if they wanna do and all and not be worried about babies and i can almost guarantee 100% would say no

respect should be reciprocal folks

that being said who wants a baby, i have baby badder always ready


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## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

Samwell Seed Well said:


> i was in this situation exectly almost, and i wanted to be with her so i accepted her choice her body,
> 
> ask dude to get a visectamy if they wanna do and alland not be worried about babies and i canalmost garuantee 100% would say no


my wife and i sat down and made a MUTUAL decision about my vasectomy. i love her like that.


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## Samwell Seed Well (Oct 9, 2011)

vasectomy's can be reversed too


----------



## Beefbisquit (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Every time you jizz you kill trillions of potential humans.  Every time you take the morning after pill, you kill a potential human. Every time you go to the doctor after conception and tell him you don't want to be pregnant, you kill a potential human. Every time you go to the doctor when you learn you're pregnant, you kill a potential human.
> 
> Cannabineer speaks of personhood. A fetus, is not a human. Potential human as you say, ya, everything has potential. I think somewhere in 2nd trimester is where the line is drawn. The nervous system is being more intensely developed, specifically pain receptors are developed.


I agree, a potential human is not a human. 

A human is a human.


How is that not clear to some people? A microscopic grouping of cells is not a human. What human qualities does it have? Please explain this to me.

Oh, and the possibility of it becoming a human is not a human quality. A human already has that quality.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

Samwell Seed Well said:


> vasectomy's can be reversed too


well then i guess my feelings are meaningless. 

you can get pregnant more then once.


----------



## Samwell Seed Well (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> well then i guess my feelings are meaningless.
> 
> you can get pregnant more then once.


i was just letting people who may not know that they can be reversed 

no weight on your comment sorry

Seriously folks Samwell Seed Well Human Seed bank, im a mix so the possibilities are endless lol


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> I very curious as to why men think they have equal if not more say over a womens body???????


Because it's technically half the man and half the woman? One half sperm, one half egg love.  I agree, the woman needs to be taken more into account but it doesn't 'belong' to anyone.  

Equal responsibility.


----------



## 420God (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> i don't think being a rapist is passed on genetically.


It's questionable but studies suggest it.

~~~> http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/predator.htm


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

420God said:


> This guy, Kenneth Knippel of Wausau, Wi, was an offspring of rape. His mom was raped by her brother and since she was young was forced to keep it.
> 
> He grew up to sexually assault over a dozen women and left one for dead after raping her with a crowbar.


 
Jesus Christ. >.< WTF is wrong with people. Sex is NOT that critical.


----------



## 420God (Oct 9, 2011)

Samwell Seed Well said:


> vasectomy's can be reversed too


 Not easily.


----------



## april (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Because it's technically half the man and half the woman? One half sperm, one half egg love.  I agree, the woman needs to be taken into account but it doesn't 'belong' to anyone.
> 
> Equal responsibility.


If it grows inside me, and rips thru my tiny vagina damn skippy it belongs to me!!!! Equal rights my ass, u let ur body get all fucked up, and gain a ton of weight, freak out over pickles or something just as dumb, then u can drop ur equal rights bs, this world is not fair or equal, never will be  C'est la vie mon amour. But i crave ur baby making juice so no need to worry


----------



## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

420God said:


> It's questionable but studies suggest it.
> 
> ~~~> http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/predator.htm


so you feel anyone who has any conviction of a sexual crime should have all their offspring murdered?



still lovin' the logic.  


we need MORE abortion.  where's hitler when you need him? he'd breed us all proper.


----------



## 420God (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> so you feel anyone who has any conviction of a sexual crime should have all their offspring murdered?
> 
> 
> 
> still lovin' the logic.


 I think anyone convicted of a violent sexual crime should not be allowed to live.


----------



## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> If it grows inside me, and rips thru my tiny vagina damn skippy it belongs to me!!!! Equal rights my ass, u let ur body get all fucked up, and gain a ton of weight, freak out over pickles or something just as dumb, then u can drop ur equal rights bs, this world is not fair or equal, never will be  C'est la vie mon amour. But i crave ur baby making juice so no need to worry


oh you poor thing. 

as I spend the next 18 years working to support your lousy 9 months of getting fat. oh, you're poor ass. 

don't want to get fat? cross your legs.


----------



## Samwell Seed Well (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> If it grows inside me, and rips thru my tiny vagina damn skippy it belongs to me!!!! Equal rights my ass, u let ur body get all fucked up, and gain a ton of weight, freak out over pickles or something just as dumb, then u can drop ur equal rights bs, this world is not fair or equal, never will be  C'est la vie mon amour. But i crave ur baby making juice so no need to worry


i think thats fair yall get baby control and we get PENIS'S


----------



## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

420God said:


> I think anyone convicted of a violent sexual crime should not be allowed to live.


kill their children as well.


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

Samwell Seed Well said:


> i think its hypocritical and self centered to say a rape child has less of reason to live then a pregeneracy from consenting sex


Haha It is hypocritical and self-centered.  A little like me.  I wouldn't think twice about that abortion. Those girls need to get checked out every week on the clock and kill that embryo the second it develops.


----------



## splifchris (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> If it grows inside me, and rips thru my tiny vagina damn skippy it belongs to me!!!! Equal rights my ass, u let ur body get all fucked up, and gain a ton of weight, freak out over pickles or something just as dumb, then u can drop ur equal rights bs, this world is not fair or equal, never will be  C'est la vie mon amour. But i crave ur baby making juice so no need to worry


Well said.... I completely agree with you and your tiny vagina!!!


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> If it grows inside me, and rips thru my tiny vagina damn skippy it belongs to me!!!! Equal rights my ass, u let ur body get all fucked up, and gain a ton of weight, freak out over pickles or something just as dumb, then u can drop ur equal rights bs, this world is not fair or equal, never will be  C'est la vie mon amour. But i crave ur baby making juice so no need to worry


LOL I forgot the most important word in my post. I meant to say you need to be taken into account more. Also, I never spoke of rights. That god damn embryo is mine as well April!  We share the responsibility and I would never consider it a possession that you can own, that belonged to you. But something you are responsible for.


----------



## april (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> oh you poor thing.
> 
> as I spend the next 18 years working to support your lousy 9 months of getting fat. oh, you're poor ass.
> 
> don't want to get fat? cross your legs.


LMFAO hey if a man accepts that his wife sits on her ass and does not earn money or do her share, he is a fool lol Oh FDD see women are allowed to get jobs and earn money, silly men just pamper the wrong women who don't deserve the priviledge of being a stay a home wife/mother !! Stupid fools get what they deserver if a partner is picked for looks and status


----------



## Samwell Seed Well (Oct 9, 2011)

uneeded Music relief
[video=youtube;Bb_ueL2sJ80]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb_ueL2sJ80&feature=player_embedded[/video]


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> LMFAO hey if a man accepts that his wife sits on her ass and does not earn money or do her share, he is a fool lol Oh FDD see women are allowed to get jobs and earn money, silly men just pamper the wrong women who don't deserve the priviledge of being a stay a home wife/mother !! Stupid fools get what they deserver if a partner is picked for looks and status


 You better stay at home and do all the real work. I'm lazy. I can't be cooking/mending/raising/pleasuring/cleaning/ and everything in between to keep the house in great working condition! Fuck that.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> LMFAO hey if a man accepts that his wife sits on her ass and does not earn money or do her share, he is a fool lol Oh FDD see women are allowed to get jobs and earn money, silly men just pamper the wrong women who don't deserve the priviledge of being a stay a home wife/mother !! Stupid fools get what they deserver if a partner is picked for looks and status


you're just a baby maker. your opinion really means nothing.

who said anything about pampered and stay at home?


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## 420God (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> we need MORE abortion.  where's hitler when you need him? he'd breed us all proper.


 Eugenics were done in America long before and long after Hitler.


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## april (Oct 9, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> You better stay at home and do all the real work. I'm lazy. I can't be cooking/mending/raising/pleasuring/cleaning/ and everything in between to keep the house in great working condition! Fuck that.


Hells ya, takeout, online shopping, I WILL PLEASURE U but only after i've gotten what i want ,dishwashers, robot vaccums, ya housewife life is so fucking challenging  

Excuse me while i go shake my peanuts up, wasn't this a thread about abortion ?


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

420God said:


> Eugenics were done in America long before and long after Hitler.


If we want to be fair, Eugenics on one level or another is openly practiced and openly accepted in every nation on this planet.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> Hells ya, takeout, online shopping, I WILL PLEASURE U but only after i've gotten what i want ,dishwashers, robot vaccums, ya housewife life is so fucking challenging
> 
> Excuse me while i go shake my peanuts up, wasn't this a thread about abortion ?


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## april (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> you're just a baby maker. your opinion really means nothing.
> 
> who said anything about pampered and stay at home?


Dude go lick ur wifes vagina and stop envying mine 

Fuck now i need to get knocked up so i can have an abortion , It is my right


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## fdd2blk (Oct 9, 2011)

420God said:


> Eugenics were done in America long before and long after Hitler.


are you trying to make a point? or just being trivial?


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## robert 14617 (Oct 9, 2011)

is it really a good idea for men to decide what a woman can or can't do with her own body ,,, 
yet i am against partial birth abortions


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## 420God (Oct 9, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> are you trying to make a point? or just being trivial?


 Just being trivial, I'm bored.


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## splifchris (Oct 9, 2011)

The thing about abortions is the kind of woman that have abortions are skanky twenty something year old unemployed uneducated types... who really shouldnt be allowed kids anyway... nature always finds ways of being kind!!


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 9, 2011)

splifchris said:


> The thing about abortions is the kind of woman that have abortions are skanky twenty something year old unemployed uneducated types... who really shouldnt be allowed kids anyway... nature always finds ways of being kind!!


Haha. So I guess it all works out.


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## Samwell Seed Well (Oct 9, 2011)

april said:


> LMFAO hey if a man accepts that his wife sits on her ass and does not earn money or do her share, he is a fool lol Oh FDD see women are allowed to get jobs and earn money, silly men just pamper the wrong women who don't deserve the priviledge of being a stay a home wife/mother !! Stupid fools get what they deserver if a partner is picked for looks and status


this girl gets it, you must be my sister from another mother, cuase this is how i was brought up


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## Harrekin (Oct 10, 2011)

Winter Woman said:


> This argument is the reason I tend to lean towards Libertarians.
> 
> I do what I want with my body, you do want you want to yours. Easy.


Not getting into this topic, but Im pretty sure Libertarians also respect the rights of the unborn child as much as the rights of the parent. At least Ron Paul says so,and didn't he basically start the Libertarian thing?

Anyways I'm out.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 10, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Not getting into this topic, but Im pretty sure Libertarians also respect the rights of the unborn child as much as the rights of the parent. At least Ron Paul says so,and didn't he basically start the Libertarian thing?
> 
> Anyways I'm out.


LOL - No, Ron Paul didn't start the libertarian thing.

Look up John Stuart Mill *"On Liberty"*


Minimalist government? Fewer gov restrictions? And you think most libertarians would make a law against abortions? You're off your rocker.


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## mindphuk (Oct 10, 2011)

Actually, I think IIRC, Paul said that he is against abortion but also against the SCOTUS decision to create a brand new fundemental right that overrides the 10th Amendment and believes that it should be up to the states. Paul is a libertarian or classic liberal. The Libertarian Party (big "L") holds no official stance as even amongst libertarians it is a divisive issue. I personally think that it should be allowed up until a certain point without exigent circumstances. That gives plenty of time for the woman to know she's pregnant and make a decision. At some point we are obligated to protect the rights of the unborn as if it was a neonate. I think when the brain develops consciousness should be a deciding factor and we need to err on the side of protecting the innocent, if it is determined that developmentally that can vary among individuals.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 10, 2011)

LOL Ron Paul can be personally against Abortion, but the last thing he'd be for, is government interference in the issue.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 11, 2011)

"The fetus is not a human being with rights until it is born (based on a number of rationales) and/or only the mother confers rights on the fetus; even if the fetus has rights, and abortion is murder, the rights of the mother to evict trespassers  for whatever reasons  through abortion are greater (based on a number of rationales); the government is the problem, not the solution, including in this issue; it's my body and the government should keep its laws off it; people can decide this issue in their private, contractual communities; only voluntary means of convincing a woman to have a child are libertarian; the decision on whether it is murder is based on political power and adult women have more power; it is wrong to force a deformed baby or unwanted child to come into the world."

From Pro-choice libertarians.net


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## Luger187 (Oct 11, 2011)

i have 2 friends that have had abortions. one was with a total dirt bag that treated her like shit, so having a baby with him would have ruined her and the baby's lives. the second friend was totally not prepared for a baby. she wouldve had to quit college and all that. 

i dont think abortion should be used as a contraceptive, but i do think it should be legal to make the choice. sometime people get drunk at a bar and end up goin home with someone and havin sex. shit happens and people get pregnant. the brain doesnt always think about the consequences 9 months down the road when it is in a sexually charged state.

i also agree with what ganjames said about population. if i ever got a girl pregnant, id probably try to talk her into an abortion, to be honest(although i always use condoms). if i ever wanted a kid, i would definitely adopt. there are TONS of kids that have nobody. my dad was adopted too, so thats another reason why.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 11, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> i have 2 friends that have had abortions. one was with a total dirt bag that treated her like shit, so having a baby with him would have ruined her and the baby's lives. the second friend was totally not prepared for a baby. she wouldve had to quit college and all that.
> 
> i dont think abortion should be used as a contraceptive, but i do think it should be legal to make the choice. sometime people get drunk at a bar and end up goin home with someone and havin sex. shit happens and people get pregnant. the brain doesnt always think about the consequences 9 months down the road when it is in a sexually charged state.
> 
> i also agree with what ganjames said about population. if i ever got a girl pregnant, id probably try to talk her into an abortion, to be honest(although i always use condoms). if i ever wanted a kid, i would definitely adopt. there are TONS of kids that have nobody. my dad was adopted too, so thats another reason why.


Condoms are for sailors! lol


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## Luger187 (Oct 11, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Condoms are for sailors! lol


and internet connections!


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## Harrekin (Oct 11, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> LOL Ron Paul can be personally against Abortion, but the last thing he'd be for, is government interference in the issue.


Actually one of the fundamental beliefs of the nearly all Libertarians whether extreme or moderate is that one of Governments sole duties is to protect it's citizens from harm. Also Ron Paul being a doctor believes in protecting the civil rights of the unborn the same as "born people". 

Read up before making assumptions


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## Harrekin (Oct 11, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> i have 2 friends that have had abortions. one was with a total dirt bag that treated her like shit, so having a baby with him would have ruined her and the baby's lives. the second friend was totally not prepared for a baby. she wouldve had to quit college and all that.
> 
> i dont think abortion should be used as a contraceptive, but i do think it should be legal to make the choice. sometime people get drunk at a bar and end up goin home with someone and havin sex. shit happens and people get pregnant. the brain doesnt always think about the consequences 9 months down the road when it is in a sexually charged state.
> 
> i also agree with what ganjames said about population. if i ever got a girl pregnant, id probably try to talk her into an abortion, to be honest(although i always use condoms). if i ever wanted a kid, i would definitely adopt. there are TONS of kids that have nobody. my dad was adopted too, so thats another reason why.


To be truthful and no offense to you personally, but anybody who hasnt been in the situation really hasn't a right to opinions on the subject. 

"If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, oh what a world it would be"


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## Luger187 (Oct 11, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> To be truthful and no offense to you personally, but anybody who hasnt been in the situation really hasn't a right to opinions on the subject.
> 
> "If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, oh what a world it would be"


[video=youtube;OlNyPwJZL2E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlNyPwJZL2E[/video]


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## carl.burnette (Oct 11, 2011)

Anti-abortion here.

Sorry to piss off the masses, but rather err on the side of life.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 11, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> To be truthful and no offense to you personally, but anybody who hasnt been in the situation really hasn't a right to opinions on the subject.
> 
> "If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, oh what a world it would be"


That's bullshit dude, anyone who hasn't been in the situation doesn't have the RIGHT to an OPINION? Last time I checked bud, everyone has the right to any opinion.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 11, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> one of Governments sole duties is to protect it's citizens from harm.


Agreed. To bad fetuses don't have a BIRTH CERTIFICATE or SSN! You don't actually believe that they're citizens do you?


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## Harrekin (Oct 11, 2011)

As I said I'm not getting into this,my opinions are my own, * but anyone who thinks they've made up their mind about it is CLUELESS until they're in the situation.* 

Iv seen many people who were pro-choice choose to keep the baby and people who were pro-life have an abortion, so as I said before, you can state your opinion on here over and over till youve carpal tunnel syndrome but it means nothing until you actually have to choose yourself. 

And everyone has the right to a private opinion, but to claim it is correct to other people is a fallacy.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 11, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> As I said I'm not getting into this,my opinions are my own, * but anyone who thinks they've made up their mind about it is CLUELESS until they're in the situation.*
> 
> Iv seen many people who were pro-choice choose to keep the baby and people who were pro-life have an abortion, so as I said before, you can state your opinion on here over and over till youve carpal tunnel syndrome but it means nothing until you actually have to choose yourself.
> 
> And everyone has the right to a private opinion, but to claim it is correct to other people is a fallacy.


 Pro-choice doesn't mean you'd have an abortion everytime.  It just means that you have the right to choose it if you will. Pro-lifers are terrible hypocrites tho if they have an abortion.


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## Harrekin (Oct 11, 2011)

Well people tend to radically alter their opinions when theyre in the situation, doesn't make them hypocrites, it makes them human


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 11, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Well people tend to radically alter their opinions when theyre in the situation, doesn't make them hypocrites, it makes them human


 Uhhh ya, it does. lol That's like the definition of 'hypocrite'. But yes. I'm not going berate a person for it, but I can't deny that they're hypocrites.


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## Harrekin (Oct 11, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Uhhh ya, it does. lol That's like the definition of 'hypocrite'. But yes. I'm not going berate a person for it, but I can't deny that they're hypocrites.


Who are you to judge someone else because they changed their views on something because of their acquisition of real life experience. It's real easy for someone to judge the singer until their asked to get up and do it themselves.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 11, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Who are you to judge someone else because they changed their views on something because of their acquisition of real life experience. It's real easy for someone to judge the singer until their asked to get up and do it themselves.


If that's judging than I guess I'm judging lol I'm just calling the kettle black.  If I'm Mr. Pot, than so be it.


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 11, 2011)

im pro choice

and yes one of my gf's had one, so i can comment freely


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 11, 2011)

I wouldn't be able to be pro-choice. My girl being pregnant is pretty much me having a kid, IMO.
But that's my choice.


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 11, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I wouldn't be able to be pro-choice. My girl being pregnant is pretty much me having a kid, IMO.
> But that's my choice.


 well being pro choice is just that, i didnt really love the idea, and its not like i root for abortion.... but its her free will and body...no diff than me getting another tatoo , or my buddy eating a shitload of pills...its your choice at the end of the day , you just have to live with the pricetag it may carry


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 11, 2011)

Dizzle Frost said:


> well being pro choice is just that, i didnt really love the idea, and its not like i root for abortion.... but its her free will and body...no diff than me getting another tatoo , or my buddy eating a shitload of pills...its your choice at the end of the day , you just have to live with the pricetag it may carry


Change your avatar!


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 11, 2011)

Dizzle Frost said:


> well being pro choice is just that, i didnt really love the idea, and its not like i root for abortion.... but its her free will and body...no diff than me getting another tatoo , or my buddy eating a shitload of pills...its your choice at the end of the day , you just have to live with the pricetag it may carry


I get what you're saying, I'm just anti-abortion. I wasn't saying anything bad to you, I respect you and your decision. I'm just saying if it was up to me the only abortion that would be legal is for rape victims. I mean if you have sex deal with the consequences, or there is always adoption. But again that's all in my own opinion, no disrespect your way dude, .


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 11, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I get what you're saying, I'm just anti-abortion. I wasn't saying anything bad to you, I respect you and your decision. I'm just saying if it was up to me the only abortion that would be legal is for rape victims. I mean if you have sex deal with the consequences, or there is always adoption. But again that's all in my own opinion, no disrespect your way dude, .


Adoption is fucked up.  If you're not picked up after a year, good fucking luck.


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 11, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Change your avatar!


 happy now? lol


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 11, 2011)

Dizzle Frost said:


> happy now? lol


 Ahhhh.... My mind was just fucking blown.... thanks alot dude, lol.
And you still kept it in the sig, haha.


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 11, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Ahhhh.... My mind was just fucking blown.... thanks alot dude, lol.
> And you still kept it in the sig, haha.


 oh you noticed ? LOL


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 11, 2011)

Dizzle Frost said:


> happy now? lol


Oh you are just the WORST type of person.
[video=youtube;P_tJ6MzjHgA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_tJ6MzjHgA[/video]


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 11, 2011)

what? i suppose thats your fav "two hot chicks making out" picture to?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 11, 2011)

What if she was aborted? Lol.


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 11, 2011)

then i wouldnt bother pulling out LMAO


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 11, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> What if she was aborted? Lol.


Millions like her and better.


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 11, 2011)

lol i thought he said if she was an aborter


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 11, 2011)

Dizzle Frost said:


> lol i thought he said if she was an aborter


Lol now it makes sense.


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## Dizzle Frost (Oct 11, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol now it makes sense.


lmao..i really dont wanna know what you thought previously


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 11, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Who are you to judge someone else because they changed their views on something because of their acquisition of real life experience. It's real easy for someone to judge the singer until their asked to get up and do it themselves.


The the person who changed their views shouldn't have been so adamant about their views in the first place. Pro-choice doesn't mean you're pro-abortion, you just think a woman should have jurisdiction over her own body. 

When someone preaches anti-______ and then does ______, they're a hypocrite, regardless of the connotations. Someone who is pro-choice who decides to keep a baby hasn't become a hypocrite, because all they're fighting for is the choice; which they made.


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## Harrekin (Oct 12, 2011)

So a person can never change their views without being a hypocrite? That's bullshit, if the person is pro-life, has an abortion and still preaches anti-abortion then they are a hypocrit. 

If a pro-life person has an abortion and then becomes pro-life they are not a hypocrite, they simply changed their view.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 12, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> So a person can never change their views without being a hypocrite? That's bullshit, if the person is pro-life, has an abortion and still preaches anti-abortion then they are a hypocrit.
> 
> If a pro-life person has an abortion and then becomes pro-life they are not a hypocrite, they simply changed their view.


Hypocrisy
The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform;

I suppose we all have different opinions of what we hold to be hypocritical. I read this definition and it affirms my beliefs on this matter. You may think otherwise.  S'all good.


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## Harrekin (Oct 12, 2011)

I can't change my mind on that, cos if I agree with you then I'm a hypocrite by your very definition, lol 

EDIT: Shit I read the quote I wrote in your last post, the last part of it is supposed to say if a pro-life person has an abortion and becomes pro-choice they're not a hypocrite they just changed their view...sorry for the confusion!


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 12, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> So a person can never change their views without being a hypocrite? That's bullshit, if the person is pro-life, has an abortion and still preaches anti-abortion then they are a hypocrit.
> 
> If a pro-life person has an abortion and then becomes pro-life they are not a hypocrite, they simply changed their view.



To be a hypocrite you have to DO something. You can change your mind on lots of things and not be a hypocrite, it's called changing opinions based on new and convincing evidence. 

But;

Specifically preaching against doing an *action*, and then performing that *action *yourself, is hypocritical. Preaching against gay rights and then having gay sex is hypocritical. Protesting a seal hunt, and then participating in the seal hunt is hypocritical. Protesting abortion, and then having an abortion is hypocritical. It stops being hypocritical when you stop holding a view against "something" while performing that "something".

Just "changing a belief" is the tip of the iceberg. You're absolutely right, views change as we learn and get older; but specifically denouncing act xyz, and then performing xyz is the basic definition of hypocrisy. So, if after the abortion you _became_ pro-choice you would STOP being hypocritical, but until that point where you drop the dissonant view, you'd still be a hypocrite.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 12, 2011)

I was responsible for a couple back in the day. Just gave the girl $ and headed off to a bar. It wasn't until I got a girl pregnant again, and saw an ultrasound, that the reality hit me. That wasn't some blog of tissue that was sucking her thumb. That was *obviously* a human being. NOT, btw, "part of the woman's body". So I didn't pay the $...and 21 years later I thank God every day for that when I see my beautiful daughter's face in the morning. If people were required to look at an ultrasound first, abortions would be very very rare. AFA rape victims...I heard a speaker one time...dude's mother was raped by a black man. (I mention color because, to many people, that would make the mother's choice even more incredulous). The mother was anti-abortion, and she kept the baby...who turned out to be an in-demand anti-abortion speaker. It wasn't *his* fault his "father" was an a-hole, so why should he have gotten the death penalty?



Hepheastus420 said:


> I get what you're saying, I'm just anti-abortion. I wasn't saying anything bad to you, I respect you and your decision. I'm just saying if it was up to me the only abortion that would be legal is for rape victims. I mean if you have sex deal with the consequences, or there is always adoption. But again that's all in my own opinion, no disrespect your way dude, .


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## Harrekin (Oct 12, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> To be a hypocrite you have to DO something. You can change your mind on lots of things and not be a hypocrite, it's called changing opinions based on new and convincing evidence.
> 
> But;
> 
> ...


 See what you say is all well and good until you actually find yourself in the situation of your missus being pregnant. As far as Im concerned you've no right to judge a person for changing their views when presented with the aforementioned scenario, as it is pretty lifechanging. If they have an abortion and continue to be pro-life then they are a total hypocrite, but if they suddenly become pro-choice then they're just "enlightened because of life experience". 

Your example about the gay sex thing, a person can think they're straight, preach against gay rights, try it out for themselves and decide its what they actually like...are they a hypocrite? No they're not. 

But...

If they tried it, liked it, decided they were gay but preached against gay rights then they're a hypocrite.

So as such, you really cant decide on abortion until your forced to make the choice for yourself. Even if you said it was wrong beforehand, its such a huge life event that if you changed you're mind then thats your choice, just as long as you dont continue to preach against it.

Realistically EVERYONE should be pro-choice, its noones right to tell someone else what to do. If you dont like it then dont do it, but dont expect other people to conform to your world view.

And without meaning to bring religion in, most of the pro-lifers are Christian or at least were raised in a demographic that is heavily influenced by Christianity...which I suppose is typical of such a religion, because most try force their shit down your throat daily.

Anyways, point is *noone has the right to judge another person, especially not if they havnt been presented with that choice to make themselves*.

Example in point, I could say I dont like rollercoasters, they're dangerous and scary and I dont agree with them because you could kill yourself on one...but if Iv never tried it, and try it and decide I was wrong and that I like it, am I a hypocrite? No Im sure as fuck not.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> I was responsible for a couple back in the day. Just gave the girl $ and headed off to a bar. It wasn't until I got a girl pregnant again, and saw an ultrasound, that the reality hit me. That wasn't some blog of tissue that was sucking her thumb. That was *obviously* a human being. NOT, btw, "part of the woman's body". So I didn't pay the $...and 21 years later I thank God every day for that when I see my beautiful daughter's face in the morning. If people were required to look at an ultrasound first, abortions would be very very rare. AFA rape victims...I heard a speaker one time...dude's mother was raped by a black man. (I mention color because, to many people, that would make the mother's choice even more incredulous). The mother was anti-abortion, and she kept the baby...who turned out to be an in-demand anti-abortion speaker. It wasn't *his* fault his "father" was an a-hole, so why should he have gotten the death penalty?


Awesome dude, I'm glad you kept your kid .
I'm not for abortion for rape victims. I just see how people could debate that it should be fair. Personally if I was a girl and was raped and got pregnant, I would keep the baby.
My first girlfriend that taught me everything about love, had a mom that was raped but she kept her. The mom kept the daughter and her daughter was my first girlfriend, if that clears it up .


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## Harrekin (Oct 12, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Awesome dude, I'm glad you kept your kid .
> I'm not for abortion for rape victims. I just see how people could debate that it should be fair. Personally if I was a girl and was raped and got pregnant, I would keep the baby.
> My first girlfriend that taught me everything about love, had a mom that was raped but she kept her. The mom kept the daughter and her daughter was my first girlfriend, if that clears it up .


But youre neither a woman nor have you been placed in the scenario, so everything you say is just bullshit speculation. So how about keeping your purely specualtive opinion to yourself? You've a right to your opinion, but no right to proclaim it as fact publicly.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 12, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> See what you say is all well and good until you actually find yourself in the situation of your missus being pregnant.


Absolutely true. Extenuating circumstances do have a way of making you readjust your views.


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## Harrekin (Oct 12, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Absolutely true. Extenuating circumstances do have a way of making you readjust your views.


 But you couldnt be classed as a hypocrite as long as you dont continue to preach your previous views, right? I think we're on the same page now, I just didnt express my point very well before


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## RawBudzski (Oct 12, 2011)

When you witness the cruelty that goes on around the world daily, it is easy to belive some would be better off not being here @ all. 

Would you opt that all the sudden we had the cure for cancer? the cure to aging & death due to health issues? If humans had the ability to live several hundred years Today. We would have a cap, or laws regarding who could have kids or how many, due to the lack of rate of death. So would you would choose to be able to reproduce knowing you will pass on leaving children behind or would you choose to not have children & stick to yourself as long as possible. Not a win/win situation, I would rather have offspring & get over with the bs.

Life & Death is a must if you look @ it, who are we to say when it happens. It is ones individual choice, whether a mother aborts a child @ one month or dumping it in the trash @ 1 day old. It is going to happen, we are not perfect.. . cause if we were.. 90% of us would have been "Aborted" a LOOONNGGGG time ago.


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## Harrekin (Oct 12, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> When you witness the cruelty that goes on around the world daily, it is easy to belive some would be better off not being here @ all.
> 
> Would you opt that all the sudden we had the cure for cancer? the cure to aging & death due to health issues? If humans had the ability to live several hundred years Today. We would have a cap, or laws regarding who could have kids or how many, due to the lack of rate of death. So would you would choose to be able to reproduce knowing you will pass on leaving children behind or would you choose to not have children & stick to yourself as long as possible. Not a win/win situation, I would rather have offspring & get over with the bs.
> 
> Life & Death is a must if you look @ it, who are we to say when it happens. It is ones individual choice, whether a mother aborts a child @ one month or dumping it in the trash @ 1 day old. It is going to happen, we are not perfect.. . cause if we were.. 90% of us would have been "Aborted" a LOOONNGGGG time ago.


 Most of us were planned dude, why would we have been aborted?


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## RawBudzski (Oct 12, 2011)

"Most" of us are planned? 

Ehh.. I think you are being a little optimistic.


I would say "Most" of us are a plesant surprise @ the most. <3


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## Harrekin (Oct 12, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> "Most" of us are planned?
> 
> Ehh.. I think you are being a little optimistic.
> 
> ...


 Well I think you're being a little bit speculative, so we call it quits?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 12, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> But youre neither a woman nor have you been placed in the scenario, so everything you say is just bullshit speculation. So how about keeping your purely specualtive opinion to yourself? You've a right to your opinion, but no right to proclaim it as fact publicly.


Where the fuck did I say anything was fact? Learn to read. Besides I'm gonna keep on saying my opinions. And my opinions aren't bullshit so fuck you buddy. I know for sure I wouldn't want my girl to have an abortion. Even if I was placed in that situation I wouldn't puss out and ask for an abortion. I don't understand why you took the offensive side with me, unless you feel guilty about something. I didn't show anybody any disrespect so how about you keep your insulting opinions to yourself?


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## Underthelight (Oct 13, 2011)

If only one person in the world wanted an abortion I would support them , pro-choice. So tired of others forcing there ideas on others, if your against don't have one. If for whatever reasons you feel it is right for you then all the power to you. All those folks whom actively try and stop the movement should worry about all the children already out there in terrible situations or starving in the world instead of folks whom want one less to be brought into it.


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## XRagnorX (Oct 13, 2011)

I always think of the child sacrifices of Ba'al when I think of the mass abortion epidemic. There may, might , maybe be some justifyable cases. But to me it is mostly the same as placing a child in the fiery arms of an alter.....


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Where the fuck did I say anything was fact? Learn to read. Besides I'm gonna keep on saying my opinions. And my opinions aren't bullshit so fuck you buddy. I know for sure I wouldn't want my girl to have an abortion. Even if I was placed in that situation I wouldn't puss out and ask for an abortion. I don't understand why you took the offensive side with me, unless you feel guilty about something. I didn't show anybody any disrespect so how about you keep your insulting opinions to yourself?


 You keep saying what you "would do" as if you've some kinda moral high ground on the situation, when in reality you havnt a fucking clue how you'd react. 
So people who have an abortion "puss out" do they? Iv never been with a girl that had one, nor would I expect a girl to or not, because in reality I dont know the practicalities or the situation we'd be in, so I keep my fucking opinions to myself and let other people make the choice for themselves and not act as if Iv some kind of authority on it.

(And I come from a country where its illegal and frowned upon, yet Im more compassionate and understanding than you, funny that...)


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> You keep saying what you "would do" as if you've some kinda moral high ground on the situation, when in reality you havnt a fucking clue how you'd react.
> So people who have an abortion "puss out" do they? Iv never been with a girl that had one, nor would I expect a girl to or not, because in reality I dont know the practicalities or the situation we'd be in, so I keep my fucking opinions to myself and let other people make the choice for themselves and not act as if Iv some kind of authority on it.
> 
> (And I come from a country where its illegal and frowned upon, yet Im more compassionate and understanding than you, funny that...)


Well Said old Chap!!!


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> Well Said old Chap!!!


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Underthelight said:


> If only one person in the world wanted an abortion I would support them , pro-choice. So tired of others forcing there ideas on others, if your against don't have one. If for whatever reasons you feel it is right for you then all the power to you. All those folks whom actively try and stop the movement should worry about all the children already out there in terrible situations or starving in the world instead of folks whom want one less to be brought into it.


It wouldn't be righ to kill the starving kids now would it? Sorry for being a smartass, but (to me at least) we think of the fetus as a living thing so I personally think you're ending that by having a baby. No instead the person should be thinking before sex of all the starving kids and think of the consequences first. I mean sex is good but there's consequences. 

Also I really don't know why there's starving kids. America consumes so much extra food is unbelievable and all the food restaurants throw out is just stupid and mean to not give it to those kids. If people really did want to change the world it would have been changed. 

But anyways those starving kids shouldn't be a factor in your decision to have an abortion...........IMO.


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Think before having sex? Are you a virgin or something? Do you "abstain"? Theres alot more to the practicalities than that, not all sex is planned nor should it be.

You speak of starving kids, in Africa and other third world countries people have up to 10 kids knowing they cant support them, educate them or feed them...thats WAY more cruel than having an abortion, they're literally born starving.

EDIT: Good dodge on my previous post by the way, talking about starving kids instead of actually replying to me.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

Haha.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> You keep saying what you "would do" as if you've some kinda moral high ground on the situation, when in reality you havnt a fucking clue how you'd react.
> So people who have an abortion "puss out" do they? Iv never been with a girl that had one, nor would I expect a girl to or not, because in reality I dont know the practicalities or the situation we'd be in, so I keep my fucking opinions to myself and let other people make the choice for themselves and not act as if Iv some kind of authority on it.
> 
> (And I come from a country where its illegal and frowned upon, yet Im more compassionate and understanding than you, funny that...)


So we have different views on a subject and for some reason you're putting me up on some moral throne. Well fucking take me off that throne. I don't judge others based on their decisions so I don't see where you get off saying you're more compassionate than me. Show me where I said someone is bad and I'm superior because they had an abortion. You can't, and do you know why? Because I don't think that way dipshit.... So just fuck off.
A couple of my aunts have had an abortion, that doesn't mean I hate them. However it does mean I could have actually had a cousin to play with, and as a child that would've been awesome. So yes I'm against abortion, but that doesn't impact how I perceive a persons moral stance. And it's fine if you don't believe me, but I know for sure I wouldn't want my girl to have an abortion. I don't know why you get to say I have no idea what I'm talking about. Abortion to ne is an obvious no, I would not do it. You on the other hand would probably give it thought, I would be to happy having a kid to give it though. Does my decision make me a better person than you? No it does not. 
Why do you perceive me as trying to be superior? This whole abortion thing is just another subject where humans disagree. It doesn't mean shit, have a baby or don't have a baby it doesn't change my view of a person. It's just that I'm anti- abortion, damn. Tell me, what makes you more compassionate than me?


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

You said people who have an abortion "puss out", thus you are judging those people. Can you not read or is it a lack of reading comprehension?

Im more compassionate because I dont judge people if they choose to or not have an abortion. You judge people without ever having been in the situation yourself. You're narrowminded and judgemental in public without ever having experienced the scenario yourself.

You get it now or do you need caps lock on or something to understand?

EDIT: And you seem to assume I dont have a child/children for some reason, where'd you get that from?


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So we have different views on a subject and for some reason you're putting me up on some moral throne. Well fucking take me off that throne. I don't judge others based on their decisions so I don't see where you get off saying you're more compassionate than me. Show me where I said someone is bad and I'm superior because they had an abortion. You can't, and do you know why? Because I don't think that way dipshit.... So just fuck off.
> A couple of my aunts have had an abortion, that doesn't mean I hate them. However it does mean I could have actually had a cousin to play with, and as a child that would've been awesome. So yes I'm against abortion, but that doesn't impact how I perceive a persons moral stance. And it's fine if you don't believe me, but I know for sure I wouldn't want my girl to have an abortion. I don't know why you get to say I have no idea what I'm talking about. Abortion to ne is an obvious no, I would not do it. You on the other hand would probably give it thought, I would be to happy having a kid to give it though. Does my decision make me a better person than you? No it does not.
> Why do you perceive me as trying to be superior? This whole abortion thing is just another subject where humans disagree. It doesn't mean shit, have a baby or don't have a baby it doesn't change my view of a person. It's just that I'm anti- abortion, damn. Tell me, what makes you more compassionate than me?


Are you completely anti abortion or can there be exceptions????


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> Are you completely anti abortion or can there be exceptions????


No exceptions for him. This is bat country.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Think before having sex? Are you a virgin or something? Do you "abstain"? Theres alot more to the practicalities than that, not all sex is planned nor should it be.
> 
> You speak of starving kids, in Africa and other third world countries people have up to 10 kids knowing they cant support them, educate them or feed them...thats WAY more cruel than having an abortion, they're literally born starving.
> 
> EDIT: Good dodge on my previous post by the way, talking about starving kids instead of actually replying to me.


How is that a good dodge? Have some fucking patience. Yes think before having sex. I'm not a virgin. 
I said sex is good, but there's fuckin consequences. You can run away from those consequences or you can give the kid life.

Like I said those people are sick themselves for having 10 kids that they know they can't feed. And I wasn't the one that brought up starving kids dumbass, read. I'm saying if we really wanted to do something there would be a shit load less of starving kids. Although I do feel bad for those starving kids it doesn't play a factor on my kid. Why should they have a impact on my life? 

If you're so poor that you can't raise a kid then I suggest not taking the chance. Besides if you're about to have a baby then get a damn job and you can take care of it. Like my sisters due on October 21, she is 21. She didn't get to finish school nor did they have the money to support a kid. But they didn't have an abortion, instead she got a job doing some crap at children's parties and he got a job out of town doing construction work. Now they have everything the baby needs, a car, a house, and extra cash. There's no excuse unless you live in a third world country.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> But they didn't have an abortion, instead she got a job doing some crap at children's parties and he got a job out of town doing construction work. Now they have everything the baby needs, a car, a house, and extra cash.


 Sounds like a nightmare!


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

So "poor" people shouldnt have sex? As usual your posts dont make any sense, sorry.


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> How is that a good dodge? Have some fucking patience. Yes think before having sex. I'm not a virgin.
> I said sex is good, but there's fuckin consequences. You can run away from those consequences or you can give the kid life.
> 
> Like I said those people are sick themselves for having 10 kids that they know they can't feed. And I wasn't the one that brought up starving kids dumbass, read. I'm saying if we really wanted to do something there would be a shit load less of starving kids. Although I do feel bad for those starving kids it doesn't play a factor on my kid. Why should they have a impact on my life?
> ...


"*Like I said those people are sick themselves for having 10 kids that they know they can't feed. And I wasn't the one that brought up starving kids dumbass, read. I'm saying if we really wanted to do something there would be a shit load less of starving kids."

*Oh.... my..... God....


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> Are you completely anti abortion or can there be exceptions????


I'm completely anti-abortion. That doesn't change my view on anyone. Although I do have much sympathy for rape victims and will look away for that one. I mean I don't see why this is such a huge thing. It's not my choice whether or not someone has a baby, nor does it matter to me. I say I'm anti-abortion because if a friend came up to me and said should I keep the baby or have an abortion, I would say keep the baby. Therefore I'm against abortion (anti-abortion).


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Sounds like a nightmare!


Just because they had to work for something doesn't make it a nightmare. They are very happy to be having a baby.


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I'm completely anti-abortion. That doesn't change my view on anyone. Although I do have much sympathy for rape victims and will look away for that one. I mean I don't see why this is such a huge thing. It's not my choice whether or not someone has a baby, nor does it matter to me. I say I'm anti-abortion because if a friend came up to me and said should I keep the baby or have an abortion, I would say keep the baby. Therefore I'm against abortion (anti-abortion).


 Then you're not completly anti-abortion if you can turn your head...for fuck sake man, you really need some introspection to see if what you think actually makes any logical sense.

(In all aspects of your life)


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> So "poor" people shouldnt have sex? As usual your posts dont make any sense, sorry.


Did I ask you to make sense of my posts? I'm saying if you're gonna use being poor as an excuse fir abortion then you have no excuse. Instead you should say you're gonna get an abortion because the kids to much work.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Just because they had to work for something doesn't make it a nightmare. They are very happy to be having a baby.


21 yo and throwing away your dreams and aspirations, ie your life, because you couldn't use birth control, is a fucking NIGHTMARE.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> "*Like I said those people are sick themselves for having 10 kids that they know they can't feed. And I wasn't the one that brought up starving kids dumbass, read. I'm saying if we really wanted to do something there would be a shit load less of starving kids."
> 
> *Oh.... my..... God....


Are you just here to complain?


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Did I ask you to make sense of my posts? I'm saying if you're gonna use being poor as an excuse fir abortion then you have no excuse. Instead you should say you're gonna get an abortion because the kids to much work.


You need some LSD. =)


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> 21 yo and throwing away your dreams and aspirations, ie your life, because you couldn't use birth control, is a fucking NIGHTMARE.


Well he should have wrapped it up and she should have used birth control. And she's not throwing away her life, it depends on how you view it. To you she might, but to her she's the happiest she's ever been.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Then you're not completly anti-abortion if you can turn your head...for fuck sake man, you really need some introspection to see if what you think actually makes any logical sense.
> 
> (In all aspects of your life)


Ok one fucking mistake, does it matter?


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Did I ask you to make sense of my posts? I'm saying if you're gonna use being poor as an excuse fir abortion then you have no excuse. Instead you should say you're gonna get an abortion because the kids to much work.


 Actually what Iv been trying to say is people dont need an excuse to choose the direction of their life, its their life and Im not gonna try make decisions or force my ideals down their throat. I dont know their situation, and if they got pregnant they probably dont know their own situation. Its great that some people can make it work, but some people just cant.

But again, you havnt been in the situation (and with your level of maturity, comprehension, logic and compassion probably wont ever get yourself into it) so how about zipping it until you have some life experience?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> You need some LSD. =)


LSD won't change my view on abortion.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Well he should have wrapped it up and she should have used birth control. And she's not throwing away her life, it depends on how you view it. To you she might, but to her she's the happiest she's ever been.


I put in the 'your life' part just to see if you'd hone in on it.  *swish* WIN


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Then you're not completly anti-abortion if you can turn your head...for fuck sake man, you really need some introspection to see if what you think actually makes any logical sense.
> 
> (In all aspects of your life)


I agree here... If your willing to turn your head for extreme cases... then your not Anti-abortion... and this is a good thing... of course abortion shouldn't be used as a form of contraception but there are always exceptions to the rules!!


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> LSD won't change my view on abortion.


Never say never. lol I was just saying. Ya know. Introspection never hurts.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Actually what Iv been trying to say is people dont need an excuse to choose the direction of their life, its their life and Im not gonna try make decisions or force my ideals down their throat. I dont know their situation, and if they got pregnant they probably dont know their own situation. Its great that some people can make it work, but some people just cant.
> 
> But again, you havnt been in the situation (and with your level of maturity, comprehension, logic and compassion probably wont ever get yourself into it) so how about zipping it until you have some life experience?


How about people can discuss if they are pro-abortion or anti-abortion on a thread that's about abortion. If you don't like it ten get the fuck out dumbass.


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Theres no discussion coming from you, you've your heels dug in, you are trying to tell people what they should choose or what you'd choose from a hypothetical standpoint, I leave people to their own devices cos its not my life...

How many times do I have to repeat it?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> I agree here... If your willing to turn your head for extreme cases... then your not Anti-abortion... and this is a good thing... of course abortion shouldn't be used as a form of contraception but there are always exceptions to the rules!!


So why is it suddenly a fucking good thing? This whole argument is about keeping my opinions to myself, but when I'm pro-abortion for one case it's a good thing. Can you see how that's bull?


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So why is it suddenl a fucking good thing? This whole argument is about keeping my opinions to myself, but when I'm pro-abortion for one case it's a good thing. Can you see how that's bull?


 You're the absolute definition of a hypocrite dude.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Theres no discussion coming from you, you've your heels dug in, you are trying to tell people what they should choose or what you'd choose from a hypothetical standpoint, I leave people to their own devices cos its not my life...
> 
> How many times do I have to repeat it?


Where did I tell anyone what to choose?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> You're the absolute definition of a hypocrite dude.


Lol you don't even know what a hypocrite is..


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Never say never. lol I was just saying. Ya know. Introspection never hurts.


I don't see how I'm such a fucking bad guy. Do you guys know what this thread is for?


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I don't see how I'm such a fucking bad guy. Do you guys know what this thread is for?


I gave up talking about abortion in this thread for the most part, oh, say about 4-5 20-post pages back.


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So why is it suddenly a fucking good thing? This whole argument is about keeping my opinions to myself, but when I'm pro-abortion for one case it's a good thing. Can you see how that's bull?


Because in your own post you said you would "turn your head"...ie make an exception.... which indicates you are actually not completely anti abortion.... which is a GOOD thing


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I'm completely anti-abortion. That doesn't change my view on anyone. Although I do have much sympathy for rape victims and will look away for that one. I mean I don't see why this is such a huge thing. It's not my choice whether or not someone has a baby, nor does it matter to me. I say I'm anti-abortion because if a friend came up to me and said should I keep the baby or have an abortion, I would say keep the baby. Therefore I'm against abortion (anti-abortion).


 Yeah Im pretty sure I just quoted one. 

You say you're anti-abortion but its ok sometimes. Thats a hypocrite. You're either anti-abortion or not, you can change from one to the other if you change your mind from some big life experience, but you cant just pick and choose, thats a hypocrite. 

But keep making yourself look foolish, you do so well in every other thread, so why not here too?


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

Drugs are good.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> Because in your own post you said you would "turn your head"...ie make an exception.... which indicates you are actually not completely anti abortion.... which is a GOOD thing


Ok you think it's good, so why is it so bad for me to say what I think is "good"?


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Ok you think it's good, so why is it so bad for me to say what I think is "good"?


 Because nothing is certain and nothing is 100 percent.  You seem to think they can.


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Ok you think it's good, so why is it so bad for me to say what I think is "good"?


 Because you still claim to be completly anti-abortion...seriously, are you actually slow or just trolling?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Yeah Im pretty sure I just quoted one.
> 
> You say you're anti-abortion but its ok sometimes. Thats a hypocrite. You're either anti-abortion or not, you can change from one to the other if you change your mind from some big life experience, but you cant just pick and choose, thats a hypocrite.
> 
> But keep making yourself look foolish, you do so well in every other thread, so why not here too?


The reason I'm looking foolish is because everything I'm saying is coming out of my ass (no homo), it's all I my own opinion. And I have said that so many fucking times. This thread is meant to discuss abortion, so why did you come over here to complain?


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## Samwell Seed Well (Oct 13, 2011)




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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

Samwell Seed Well said:


>


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Because you still claim to be completly anti-abortion...seriously, are you actually slow or just trolling?


I said I made a mistake, I meant to put no. Go back a few pages and you will see from the beginning that I was never full anti-abortion. I'm anti in some cases and pro in some cases. It wasn't until you started calling me out on my opinions that I seemed like an asshole for being anti in some cases.


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> The reason I'm looking foolish is because everything I'm saying is coming out of my ass (no homo), it's all I my own opinion. And I have said that so many fucking times. This thread is meant to discuss abortion, so why did you come over here to complain?


 Can you not understand the point we're trying to make is that you should maybe think a little more about your opinion because:

1: It doesnt make any logical sense
2: Its based on "ifs" and "buts"
3: You've never been in the situation to actually form a concrete opinion
4: Its completely hypocritical


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Can you not understand the point we're trying to make is that you should maybe think a little more about your opinion because:
> 
> 1: It doesnt make any logical sense
> 2: Its based on "ifs" and "buts"
> ...


Hence it being a fucking OPINION, not fact.
How is it hypocritical?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

I'm assuming by saying I'm pro-abortion then I gave the perfect amount of logic to fit your opinion. Well fuck your opinion, I'm gonna stick with mine.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

I am complete prochoice before the third trimester.  Does that mean I'd want an abortion? No. Does it mean I'd want the option? Yes. I'd fucking love a little princess to pamper.  But does that mean I have to be anti-abortion? Fuck no.


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Ok you think it's good, so why is it so bad for me to say what I think is "good"?


I think its a good thing when someone who claims to be Anti-abortion admitts there are exceptions, as you did... There are far to many people who are Completely Anti-Abortion... Who wouldn't allow abortions for rape / incest rape cases or cases where either both the mother and child could die if the pregnancy is not terminated...


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> I think its a good thing when someone who claims to be Anti-abortion admitts there are exceptions, as you did... There are far to many people who are Completely Anti-Abortion... Who wouldn't allow abortions for rape / incest rape cases or cases where either both the mother and child could die if the pregnancy is not terminated...


In the post where harrekin said that I need to keep my opinions to myself you quoted him saying "well said" or something like that. So why should I keep my opinions to myself unless it goes along with your opinion?


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> In the post where harrekin said that I need to keep my opinions to myself you quoted him saying "well said" or something like that. So why should I keep my opinions to myself unless it goes along with your opinion?


LET ME GET YOU HIGH!!! >.< l


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> In the post where harrekin said that I need to keep my opinions to myself you quoted him saying "well said" or something like that. So why should I keep my opinions to myself unless it goes along with your opinion?


Ok... fair point there mate... i had just got up and finished smoking my first bong of the day and that was my first post of the day.... i stand by everything iv said since then..


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> LET ME GET YOU HIGH!!! >.< l


 No, I'm high already and these guys are killing my high. Just keep posting funny shit, it's the only thing making me stand arguing with these guys.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> Ok... fair point there mate... i had just got up and finished smoking my first bong of the day and that was my first post of the day.... i stand by everything iv said since then..


And I respect everything else you said. It was just that first post that pinched my nerves, . Glad to come to a conclusion and you're welcome to post your opinions on abortion (notthat anyone took that away, lol).


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Listen harrekin, if you don't think abortion should be discussed then make a thread entitled 'abortion should not be discussed', but this thread is to discuss why or why not you're for abortion.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Listen harrekin, if you don't think abortion should be discussed then make a thread entitled 'abortion should not be discussed', but this thread is to discuss why or why not you're for abortion.


 "Why not you are for abortion".  That's silly. It's "Why you are not for abortion".


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Ok... I honestly believe that so many of the arguments on here is just people being stuburn and labeling themself as one thing or another with no exceptions... Ive seen this again and again with abortion debates / guns and gun crime / capitol punishment / the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and (this is not an anti american statement) but i have notised that people from Europe tend to be a little more liberal with there views....


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> "Why not you are for abortion".  That's silly. It's "Why you are not for abortion".


I tried arguing against you here, but failed miserably, lol.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I tried arguing against you here, but failed miserably, lol.


Well you'll obviously fail if you don't think ahead of just your opinion. You need to view your post from the oppositions POV, not your own.




The Cryptkeeper said:


> What is with you in asking what I'm saying today? I just posted it. Is this the tactic you tend to take on controversial subjects? Don't expect me to play in.
> 
> Are YOU saying that a fetus experiences more cruelty in one instant than another fetus/newborn/toddler/child/adult/senior experiences it's entire existence and THEN dies anyways?
> 
> Tough sell.


You walked into this rebuttal miserably.


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> Ok... I honestly believe that so many of the arguments on here is just people being stuburn and labeling themself as one thing or another with no exceptions... Ive seen this again and again with abortion debates / guns and gun crime / capitol punishment / the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and (this is not an anti american statement) but i have notised that people from Europe tend to be a little more liberal with there views....


Yeah, honestly I made a stupid mistake when I answered your question asking if I was 100% anti-abortion with a yes. This whole thread I said I had exception until that one time when I meant to put no, lol that screwed me in my debate.

But yes, the answer to is abortion ok is not so black and white. You have to take account so many different factors. That's why it's up to the individual and their unique situation.


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Well you'll obviously fail if you don't think ahead of just your opinion. You need to view your post from the oppositions POV, not your own.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well see that's where religion makes me think differently. But I don't want to bring up religion on this thread at least, lol.

Opinion? That wasn't an opinion it was an honest vocabulary mistake. Although I should have thought about what you said before trying to squirm around it.


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

So you're pro-choice then, you just think you'd not go for the abortion option yourself...if you hadve said that then everything would've been groovy and you'd never have heard from me.

But saying people "puss out" and that abortion is wrong is a bullshit opinion, dont judge other people for the choices they've made/will potentially make, especially when you havnt been put in the situation yourself outside your own imagination. You have no clue what its like to be in the situation, thus making your original opinion void.

Thats all Im saying, you get it now?


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> So you're pro-choice then, you just think you'd not go for the abortion option yourself...if you hadve said that then everything would've been groovy and you'd never have heard from me.
> 
> But saying people "puss out" and that abortion is wrong is a bullshit opinion, dont judge other people for the choices they've made/will potentially make, especially when you havnt been put in the situation yourself outside your own imagination. You have no clue what its like to be in the situation, thus making your original opinion void.
> 
> Thats all Im saying, you get it now?


I get that before I started arguing with you, I showed complete respect towards everyone and their decisions. I said puss out because if you are just scared to have the baby then yes you pussed out and in my opinion you're a pussy. Now if their was a reason behind it then things change. And no matter what you say I would not have an abortion, so just drop that already. like I said you may think about abortion but I won't, keep in mind that doran (edit: doesn't, lol) make me feel superior. We are both humans that make decisions. I would respect your opinion but since you can't respect my opinion I don't see why I should show respect to you.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

Doran koran?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Doran koran?


What's doran Koran?


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> What's doran Koran?


lol you said Doran




Hepheastus420 said:


> I get that before I started arguing with you, I showed complete respect towards everyone and their decisions. I said puss out because if you are just scared to have the baby then yes you pussed out and in my opinion you're a pussy. Now if their was a reason behind it then things change. And no matter what you say I would not have an abortion, so just drop that already. like I said you may think about abortion but I won't, keep in mind that_* doran*_ make me feel superior. We are both humans that make decisions. I would respect your opinion but since you can't respect my opinion I don't see why I should show respect to you.


I just said 'koran' to make 10 characters.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> What's doran Koran?





The Cryptkeeper said:


> lol you said Doran
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol, there I fixed it.... kind of.


----------



## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I get that before I started arguing with you, I showed complete respect towards everyone and their decisions. I said puss out because if you are just scared to have the baby then yes you pussed out and in my opinion you're a pussy. Now if their was a reason behind it then things change. And no matter what you say I would not have an abortion, so just drop that already. like I said you may think about abortion but I won't, keep in mind that doran (edit: doesn't, lol) make me feel superior. We are both humans that make decisions. I would respect your opinion but since you can't respect my opinion I don't see why I should show respect to you.


Because my opinion is that other people can make up their own minds as long as they dont infringe on others, its logical, compassionate and I think deserving of a degree of respect.

Your opinion is based on what? Nothing but hypocrisy and speculative "I know I wouldnt, I just know it"... yet you preach it on here about it and judge other people.

Can you not see how others would disagree?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Because my opinion is that other people can make up their own minds as long as they dont infringe on others, its logical, compassionate and I think deserving of a degree of respect.
> 
> Your opinion is based on what? Nothing but hypocrisy and speculative "I know I wouldnt, I just know it"... yet you preach it on here about it and judge other people.
> 
> Can you not see how others would disagree?


How is my opinion based on hypocrisy? I said it's my opinion that I wouldn't be for abortion if put in that situation. Again where did I judge anyone? And what am I preaching? Do you not see we are going in circles with your stupid statements? I have said so many times that I don't judge people based on their decisions.


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

So you are pro-choice then? Answer a simple question.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> So you are pro-choice then? Answer a simple question.


Yes in certain situations.


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Well then you are a hypocrite, plain and simple. Its either ok or its not ok.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Well then you are a hypocrite, plain and simple. Its either ok or its not ok.


How am I a hypocrite? It's not as black and white as you make it seem.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

, if your against don't have one. >>>

If you're against rape, don't commit one. If you're against child beating, don't beat one...

If for whatever reasons you feel it is right for you then all the power to you. All those folks whom actively try and stop the movement should worry about all the children already out there in terrible situations or starving in the world instead of folks whom want one less to be brought into it.>>>

About as lame as argument as you pro-deathers make. We DO. I have friends with many adopted/foster kids. I've volunteered in Mexican orphanages. Etc. So...got a better argument?


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> How am I a hypocrite? It's not as black and white as you make it seem.


 Iv explained myself as much as I going to, you keep going round and round and Im done with this...Ill just follow one of my favourite quotes.
"Its impossible to argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> , if your against don't have one. >>>
> 
> If you're against rape, don't commit one. If you're against child beating, don't beat one...
> 
> ...


I kinda like your post. But you're also saying if you like rape, go for it. If you're for child beating, go for it.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Iv explained myself as much as I going to, you keep going round and round and Im done with this...Ill just follow one of my favourite quotes.
> "Its impossible to argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".


Lol, how am I a idiot? So you can't explain how I'm a hypocrite, so you call me an idiot. Hmm childish deflection but see you later dick wad.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> I think its a good thing when someone who claims to be Anti-abortion admitts there are exceptions, as you did... There are far to many people who are Completely Anti-Abortion... Who wouldn't allow abortions for rape / incest rape cases or cases where either both the mother and child could die if the pregnancy is not terminated...


>>>

I'm about as anti-abortion as it gets, and even *I* wouldn't have a problem with a woman who's life was actually in danger (which, as we all know, is very rare) from having one. Another bs argument.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

LOL...no. But it's the same as saying "if you don't like abortion, don't have one."



Hepheastus420 said:


> I kinda like your post. But you're also saying if you like rape, go for it. If you're for child beating, go for it.


----------



## Morgan Lynn (Oct 13, 2011)

I believe abortion is a necessary evil. I'm pro-choice but not pro-abortion. No one _likes_ abortion just like no one _likes_ war. 

I've had an early abortion when I was younger. I don't regret it because I can't change the past and their is no point on dwelling on what could have been. I've also had a late term abortion where my daughter was diagnosed in utero with a severe hydrocephalus and dandy walker syndrome. I'm not going to get into what all that means but she wouldn't have made it through the birthing process. I decided to go with termination. It was easier on me, my family, and my baby (believe it or not). The method of "abortion" that people assume that I had is no where near what actually happend. The little girl had a memorial ceremony larger than anyone I've ever known. I'm not getting into that either because it makes me cry. One of the most life destroying situations is having to choose life or death for your child that you have never met but are so very connected to emotionally and literally.


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> >>>
> 
> I'm about as anti-abortion as it gets, and even *I* wouldn't have a problem with a woman who's life was actually in danger (which, as we all know, is very rare) from having one. Another bs argument.


Just curious... What about the Rape / incests situations ??


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> Just curious... What about the Rape / incests situations ??


 Dont try use logic with them, just walk away now.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Hard to believe someone can smoke pot and still be such a pompus arrogant douchebag, but you pull it off. Show me any lack of logic in anything I've written. The irony is you probably consider yourself "tolerant".


Harrekin said:


> Dont try use logic with them, just walk away now.


----------



## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

A smokescreen. So let me get this straight. If abortion is ok for rape and incest, and if I agree to adopt and/or feed every fatherless/hungry child in the world, would you *then* be anti-abortion?



splifchris said:


> Just curious... What about the Rape / incests situations ??


----------



## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Im tolerant of people who are tolerant of others. You are not.

How about you spew your Pro-Life bullshit to the poster on the last page who actually said they had one? Scared much?


----------



## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> A smokescreen. So let me get this straight. If abortion is ok for rape and incest, and if I agree to adopt and/or feed every fatherless/hungry child in the world, would you *then* be anti-abortion?


Sorry I wasn't trying to be a Dick... I really was just curious... I am personally anti abortion... with a few previously mentioned exceptions...


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## Morgan Lynn (Oct 13, 2011)

Meh, other peoples abortion veiws don't bother me. That's why I do things like this.



Sorry about the picture of the nasty butt. I was at the Planned Parenthood rally in DC and I'm entirely too short to take pictures in a large crowd.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

You have to be the most full-of-shit poster I've ever seen. Who am I not tolerant of? Did you notice that I too was responsible for a couple abortions? What "Pro-life bullshit" have I "spewed"? I stated my beliefs, and that I have firsthand experience with this. All you do is knock everyones beliefs as if YOU are the arbiter of all things academic. Well, I think you're a phony, unhappy little man and I'm done with you. I've stated my positions, and the girl who had an abortion can read them. I don't judge her at all. I *know* what she deals with because I do to.



Harrekin said:


> Im tolerant of people who are tolerant of others. You are not.
> 
> How about you spew your Pro-Life bullshit to the poster on the last page who actually said they had one? Scared much?


----------



## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> Sorry I wasn't trying to be a Dick... I really was just curious... I am personally anti abortion... with a few previously mentioned exceptions...


Sorry...I wasn't either.


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

I just think people should be let choose for themselves...you can choose not to have an abortion yourself, but "disagreeing" with it and not doing it yourself are two completly different things.

Fuck I got dragged back in again, Im out, peace!


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## smokinheavy79 (Oct 13, 2011)

420God said:


> Do you think a persons right to choose should be taken away?


when it comes to ending someone elses life? yes. 

guess it depends when you believe life begins... some people think post birth abortion is cool... 

Everyone deserves the chance to see how bad life can suck


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## BigBlunt72 (Oct 13, 2011)

Having that baby would contribute to shit storm situation in the world right now which is the big boom of unplanned pregnancies in the country right now. Unplanned means unstable and thats what our structure is right now unstable because if your not stable you are on a stable way down plus it might boost the economy and contribute to stem cell research.


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## Morgan Lynn (Oct 13, 2011)

My thoughts on the matter.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I get that before I started arguing with you, I showed complete respect towards everyone and their decisions. I said puss out because if you are just scared to have the baby then yes you pussed out and in my opinion you're a pussy. Now if their was a reason behind it then things change. And no matter what you say I would not have an abortion, so just drop that already. like I said you may think about abortion but I won't, keep in mind that doran (edit: doesn't, lol) make me feel superior. We are both humans that make decisions. I would respect your opinion but since you can't respect my opinion I don't see why I should show respect to you.


Ok, so your stance is firmly anti-abortion for yourself.

Are you against abortion clinics in general? That is, although you disagree with the practice, do you think other people that don't share your beliefs should have the option to have abortions performed?

*That* is my big question.... Although people can share different views on things, can people respect other peoples decisions and lifestyles? 


And another thing; Please stop using the term "pro-abortion".... it's pro-choice. No one is condoning abortion, people are just pissed that their right to decide how they live is getting shit on by people who have zero stake in their lives.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

"Don't like child abuse, don't abuse one". Same BS.



Morgan Lynn said:


> View attachment 1834410
> 
> My thoughts on the matter.


----------



## Morgan Lynn (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I get that before I started arguing with you, I showed complete respect towards everyone and their decisions. I said puss out because if you are just scared to have the baby then yes you pussed out and in my opinion you're a pussy. Now if their was a reason behind it then things change. And no matter what you say I would not have an abortion, so just drop that already. like I said you may think about abortion but I won't, keep in mind that doran (edit: doesn't, lol) make me feel superior. We are both humans that make decisions. I would respect your opinion but since you can't respect my opinion I don't see why I should show respect to you.


Well, I guess you can call someone a pussy for having an abortion but you're a male you will never feel what a woman feels as she decides whats right for_ her_ and _her_ zygote/embryo/fetus/baby/what have you. You may be a part of the choice but it is not and will never be your choice. That's just how it is. You have a penis not a uterus. You can consult with your female counterpart but you will not be the decider. 

Trust me, I've been there twice and I was _begging_ for someone to make the choice for me. I didn't want to do it. But no matter who I asked for opinions (doctors, nurses, genetic counselors) I never got a response because I was the "mother". I didn't understand how people could call me a "mother". I was offended and ashamed. Calling me the "mother" is almost as bad as calling me a murderer.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 13, 2011)

smokinheavy79 said:


> when it comes to ending someone elses life? yes.
> 
> guess it depends when you believe life begins... some people think post birth abortion is cool...
> 
> Everyone deserves the chance to see how bad life can suck


Explain to me how a 2 day old fertilized egg is an independent life. How do human rights apply to a microscopic clump of cells? Human rights apply to things in the category "human", not things that *could possibly* be human, *H U M A N*.


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## Morgan Lynn (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> "Don't like child abuse, don't abuse one". Same BS.



*Definition of ABUSE*

1*:* a corrupt practice or custom 


2*:* improper or excessive use or treatment 


3: _obsolete_ *:* a deceitful act 


4*:* language that condemns or vilifies usually unjustly, intemperately, and angrily 


5*:* physical maltreatment


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Explain to me how a 2 day old fertilized egg is an independent life. How do human rights apply to a microscopic clump of cells? Human rights apply to things in the category "human", not things that *could possibly* be human, *H U M A N*.


Yeah... but obviously there is a thin line... when does it stop being a fertilized egg and become a H U M A N


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> Yeah... but obviously there is a thin line... when does it stop being a fertilized egg and become a H U M A N


When it can survive without being physically attached to, and being fed by the mother.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 13, 2011)

At what point does a fertilized chicken egg get animal rights? Hmmm......


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## Morgan Lynn (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> Yeah... but obviously there is a thin line... when does it stop being a fertilized egg and become a H U M A N


The word HUMAN is not the correct word here. The correct word is PERSON. Of course it's HUMAN, two humans fucked and conjoined their chromosomes. 

The fertilized egg is a fertilized egg for only approximately 4 weeks then it attaches to the uterine wall and becomes something else. An embryo will never have viability. Until the 12th week of pregnancy the chance of miscarriage is about 30%. So when the embryo becomes a fetus it is more viable. When the fetus reaches the 25th week of gestation it is considered to be viable outside of the womb.

So the point here is, what is the threshold of gestational age for abortion. I say about 12 weeks. After 12 weeks, if you didn't decide yet, you have lost your right to. Unless, something has gone terribly wrong then it's a whole new ball game.


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Morgan Lynn said:


> The word HUMAN is not the correct word here. The correct word is PERSON. Of course it's HUMAN, two humans fucked and conjoined their chromosomes.
> 
> The fertilized egg is a fertilized egg for only approximately 4 weeks then it attaches to the uterine wall and becomes something else. An embryo will never have viability. Until the 12th week of pregnancy the chance of miscarriage is about 30%. So when the embryo becomes a fetus it is more viable. When the fetus reaches the 25th week of gestation it is considered to be viable outside of the womb.
> 
> So the point here is, what is the threshold of gestational age for abortion. I say about 12 weeks. After 12 weeks, if you didn't decide you have lost your right to. Unless, something has gone terribly wrong then it's a whole new ball game.


I agree Morgan...


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> When it can survive without being physically attached to, and being fed by the mother.


I disagree...


----------



## eye exaggerate (Oct 13, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> At what point does a fertilized chicken egg get animal rights? Hmmm......




...nice.  But if you've been created inside of a chicken aren't you automatically a chicken and entitled to chicken rights?

*just asking a question half in fun*


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## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

Id personally agree with the 12 week thing too, youve had your right of "choice" by that point, shouldve said that earlier to clear it up.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

&#8226; Perhaps Dr. Hymie Gordon, professor of medical genetics and a physician at the prestigious Mayo Clinic, best summarized the perspective of science when he said, "I think we can now also say that the question of the beginning of life &#8212; when life begins &#8212; is no longer a question for theological or philosophical dispute. It is an established scientific fact. Theologians and philosophers may go on to debate the meaning of life or purpose of life, but it is an established fact that all life, including human life, begins at the moment of conception.



splifchris said:


> Yeah... but obviously there is a thin line... when does it stop being a fertilized egg and become a H U M A N


----------



## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Id personally agree with the 12 week thing too, youve had your right of "choice" by that point, shouldve said that earlier to clear it up.


Maximum....


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## fdd2blk (Oct 13, 2011)

pretty obvious why there are so many single mothers out there. they don't care about the men to begin with. serves them all right.


----------



## Beefbisquit (Oct 13, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...nice.  But if you've been created inside of a chicken aren't you automatically a chicken and entitled to chicken rights?
> 
> *just asking a question half in fun*


No. Animals get animal rights, not eggs.

Unless the eggs in question are of a species that's going extinct.... but those aren't actually animal rights, they're above and beyond human rights lol.... Not even humans can mess around with endangered species eggs without risk of being prosecuted. But that scenario is so far from what we're discussing it's almost pointless. lol


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## Morgan Lynn (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> &#8226; Perhaps Dr. Hymie Gordon, professor of medical genetics and a physician at the prestigious Mayo Clinic, best summarized the perspective of science when he said, "I think we can now also say that the question of the beginning of life &#8212; when life begins &#8212; is no longer a question for theological or philosophical dispute. It is an established scientific fact. Theologians and philosophers may go on to debate the meaning of life or purpose of life, but it is an established fact that all life, including human life, begins at the moment of conception.


I don't really have an opinion on the begining of life...

What is the begining of life? How do we define it? Is it at the moment of conception? Or do we just assume when a fetus is 50% viable thats when life begins?

I do not _know_.

I just believe an already breathing, developed human being has the right to her body and whatever is in it.


----------



## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Yeah...not physical maltreatment of fetus during an abortion huh?

Anyway, the point is that that whole "don't like abortion, don't have one" is stupid. If someone believes abortion is murder, they *have* to do *something*.


5*:* physical maltreatment[/QUOTE]


----------



## Morgan Lynn (Oct 13, 2011)

Change of topic for a second here:

What happens when a woman, instead of terminating the pregnancy, keeps the fetus and uses drugs and alcohol?


----------



## smokinheavy79 (Oct 13, 2011)

Morgan Lynn said:


> Change of topic for a second here:
> 
> What happens when a woman, instead of terminating the pregnancy, keeps the fetus and uses drugs and alcohol?


That chick in your avatar happens


----------



## fdd2blk (Oct 13, 2011)

Morgan Lynn said:


> Change of topic for a second here:
> 
> What happens when a woman, instead of terminating the pregnancy, keeps the fetus and uses drugs and alcohol?


where do you think half of our members came from?


----------



## Morgan Lynn (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Yeah...not physical maltreatment of fetus during an abortion huh?
> 
> Anyway, the point is that that whole "don't like abortion, don't have one" is stupid. If someone believes abortion is murder, they *have* to do *something*.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

From this point on I will not be responding to you. You have to much of a condescending tone. Sorry.


----------



## DSB65 (Oct 13, 2011)

Dsb abortion clinic..

You rape um we scrape um...

No fetus can beat us...


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## smokinheavy79 (Oct 13, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Explain to me how a 2 day old fertilized egg is an independent life. How do human rights apply to a microscopic clump of cells? Human rights apply to things in the category "human", not things that *could possibly* be human, *H U M A N*.


I can't explain that to you... I don't know, What I did say though, was that it depended on when you though life began. I did not say when I thought that was.


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## Morgan Lynn (Oct 13, 2011)

fdd2blk said:


> where do you think half of our members came from?


I was a fucking twin and a runt of a damn baby too.

3lbs looked like fuckin benjamin button.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

I just gave you a quote on that. Like the man said, we can debate the meaning of life, but it's just a scientific fact that life begins at conception. There's no question of that.



Morgan Lynn said:


> I don't really have an opinion on the begining of life...
> 
> What is the begining of life? How do we define it? Is it at the moment of conception? Or do we just assume when a fetus is 50% viable thats when life begins?
> 
> ...


----------



## Harrekin (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> I just gave you a quote on that. Like the man said, we can debate the meaning of life, but it's just a scientific fact that life begins at conception. There's no question of that.


 That means technically when you wash the skin cells off your hands you're doing pretty much the same thing...is a few cells with a complete set of DNA considered life?


----------



## smokinheavy79 (Oct 13, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> That means technically when you wash the skin cells off your hands you're doing pretty much the same thing...is a few cells with a complete set of DNA considered life?


yes! see you get it... you haven't seen how skin cells can develop into people?


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## Morgan Lynn (Oct 13, 2011)

I'm pro-shutthefuckup

In laymen's terms, so everyone can understand, that means, mind your own business and worry about your own self and your own families.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> I just gave you a quote on that. Like the man said, we can debate the meaning of life, but it's just a scientific fact that life begins at conception. There's no question of that.


Yes, of course we all know that the cells start multiplying at conception. That's a non-issue. This is a discussion about what constitutes a person, and when that persons's rights supersede those of the the mother.

When you murder someone, you kill a person. Someone who is not living inside of the organs of another person. 


If abortion was suddenly made illegal, it's not like abortions would stop - or slow down. A market would open up for illegal abortion, and then the money would go to criminals; and the conditions would be sub-standard. There would be zero regulation, and I'm sure even late trimester abortions would be performed. It'll never happen.... people will get used to the idea more, and more as time passes and it will be accepted.


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Yes, of course we all know that the cells start multiplying at conception. That's a non-issue. This is a discussion about what constitutes a person, and when that persons's rights supersede those of the the mother.
> 
> When you murder someone, you kill a person. Someone who is not living inside of the organs of another person.
> 
> ...


I dont think it will ever be "accepted"


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> I dont think it will ever be "accepted"


Yeah, yeah.... people thought the earth was flat too, and killed people who said otherwise.....


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## ghantron (Oct 13, 2011)

Its wrong, because of the potentiality of life present. Just like we shouldn't were condoms or take birth control, and every time a woman menstruates shes failing to have a child becasue of the potential for it to be a child. and everytime a guy busts a nut hes just condemned hundreds of thousands of potential babies to death... Dont get me started on hunting.


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Ab-ab-ab----abortion

[video=youtube;3A0Tr-8eCBQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A0Tr-8eCBQ[/video]


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## Basshead (Oct 13, 2011)

against abortion in my world. although for rape victims, i'd imagine they'd definitely want an abortion if impregnated through rape.
a choice i cannot make. i do know that in my bedroom there is no rape and only love making. in my bedroom there is no abortion.
i can't call what goes on in other people's bedrooms. i just know how i get down. i get down with no abortion. 
i am gentle yet strong to the women.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Dude. Seriously...you are either too stupid or too much of an a-hole (maybe both!) for me to waste my time on.



Harrekin said:


> That means technically when you wash the skin cells off your hands you're doing pretty much the same thing...is a few cells with a complete set of DNA considered life?


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Dude. Seriously...you are either too stupid or too much of an a-hole (maybe both!) for me to waste my time on.


Both, do not waste your time with this guy.


----------



## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Thanks. I've said all I have to say. Haters are gonna hate. 



Hepheastus420 said:


> Both, do not waste your time with this guy.


----------



## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Thanks. I've said all I have to say. Haters are gonna hate.


I personally like going with his horrible arguments. At first I argued with him in hopes that he would see how wrong his logic is, that failed. Now I screw around with him because it's funny how simple minded he is, and yes I honestly believe I'm superior to him when it comes to intelligence, but that doesn't say much lol. But sometimes his nonsense gets to me, and irritates me just a little bit.


----------



## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Well...I always say "never get in the mud with pigs"...but sometimes I ignore my own advice. I probably will stay away from here though. Don't see anyone's mind's changing. Sure be nice to find a place to talk/debate about such things with people who are deeper than their bumper sticker though.



Hepheastus420 said:


> I personally like going with his horrible arguments. At first I argued with him in hopes that he would see how wrong his logic is, that failed. Now I screw around with him because it's funny how simple minded he is, and yes I honestly believe I'm superior to him when it comes to intelligence, but that doesn't say much lol. But sometimes his nonsense gets to me, and irritates me just a little bit.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Ok, so your stance is firmly anti-abortion for yourself.
> 
> Are you against abortion clinics in general? That is, although you disagree with the practice, do you think other people that don't share your beliefs should have the option to have abortions performed?
> 
> ...


no dude I'm actually pro-choice, lol Jk I gotcha. 

My stance is anti-abortion and pro-choice for different situation, the answer is not so black and white.

I'm not against abortion clinics because if people want an abortion they're gonna get it one way or another. It's there choice and that's fine with me. But if they asked ME what should they do, I will always say have the child. 

Yes dude, I have said so many tines that I respect everyone's decision, I'm just saying I would rather them not end the fetuses trimesters. 

Pro-abortion.... I had to say it one more time, .


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Well...I always say "never get in the mud with pigs"...but sometimes I ignore my own advice. I probably will stay away from here though. Don't see anyone's mind's changing. Sure be nice to find a place to talk/debate about such things with people who are deeper than their bumper sticker though.


Nah dude you should stick around, we need more people like you. But you should have a debate with the intelligent minds not the trolls. Like heis is known for his inteligence, once you get debating with him; more and more intelligent minds will appear, lol. It's just the way it works.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> no dude I'm actually pro-choice, lol Jk I gotcha.
> 
> My stance is anti-abortion and pro-choice for different situation, the answer is not so black and white.
> 
> ...


Ok, perfect. lol 

That's what I was wondering about. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but forcing other people to your opinion is wrong.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 13, 2011)

Well...it's not that I don't enjoy it. It's just that I didn't realize how many people hung out here...and I just don't have the time to respond to everything. I won't disappear, but I do need to figure out how to back off.


Hepheastus420 said:


> Nah dude you should stick around, we need more people like you. But you should have a debate with the intelligent minds not the trolls. Like heis is known for his inteligence, once you get debating with him; more and more intelligent minds will appear, lol. It's just the way it works.


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> no dude I'm actually pro-choice, lol Jk I gotcha.
> 
> My stance is anti-abortion and pro-choice for different situation, the answer is not so black and white.
> 
> ...



^^^^^Murder^^^^^


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> no dude I'm actually pro-choice, lol Jk I gotcha.
> 
> My stance is anti-abortion and pro-choice for different situation, the answer is not so black and white.
> 
> ...


^^^^Baby killer^^^^


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> Quote deleted by Nusky


What? Are you serious? Fuck off dude, damn. I never said I would kill a fetus. So if you want to call someone a murderer then say it to a person who has had an abortion. 

Dude I'm not for killing babies, I'm actually against it, but sometimes other people make their own decisions and who am I to judge them? Why did I get so much ridicule for voicing my opinion while spliff Chris straight up insults pro-choice people? That's some bullshit. Why judge so damn hard spliff?


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## cannabineer (Oct 13, 2011)

Honestly I think he's teasing you about your avatar ... seen that way it's just garden-variety trollery imo ... cn

<edit> congrats on post #420 ...


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## splifchris (Oct 13, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> What? Are you serious? Fuck off dude, damn. I never said I would kill a fetus. So if you want to call someone a murderer then say it to a person who has had an abortion.
> 
> Dude I'm not for killing babies, I'm actually against it, but sometimes other people make their own decisions and who am I to judge them? Why did I get so much ridicule for voicing my opinion while spliff Chris straight up insults pro-choice people? That's some bullshit. Why judge so damn hard spliff?


Mate.... Im just winding you up man... just being an arse hole!!! really stoned and cant stop laughing... Peace


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> Honestly I think he's teasing you about your avatar ... seen that way it's just garden-variety trollery imo ... cn
> 
> <edit> congrats on post #420 ...


Aww, I feel as though I misused the 420th post, .


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 13, 2011)

splifchris said:


> Mate.... Im just winding you up man... just being an arse hole!!! really stoned and cant stop laughing... Peace


You won me over by calling me mate, lol. Nobody ever says that around my part of town. (lol, part of town).


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 13, 2011)

> If they'd rather die, then they had better do it and decrease the surplus population!


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Dude. Seriously...you are either too stupid or too much of an a-hole (maybe both!) for me to waste my time on.


 Are you joking? How are two seperate clumps of diploid cells that cannot survive on their own different? Neither can multiply without a host, neither can "live" without outside interference. You say life starts at conception? At conception you get two sets of haploid cells that join together, completing the helix giving a full set of genetic information. 

Is it alive then?

If so, what makes it alive? And what makes it more alive that any other diploid cell in the human body? Does it think, feel or have emotions any more than skin, liver, brain cells?

As usual, theres a small group of people here who just jump on people and use insulting remarks rather than actually debating the content of the messages then pat each other on the back thinking their great...no wonder the world is so fucked tbh.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

*I* didn't say life begins at conception, *science* did/does. You can say it's not viable/sentient/conscious/whatever, but it's most definitely life.



Harrekin said:


> Are you joking? How are two seperate clumps of diploid cells that cannot survive on their own different? Neither can multiply without a host, neither can "live" without outside interference. You say life starts at conception? At conception you get two sets of haploid cells that join together, completing the helix giving a full set of genetic information.
> 
> Is it alive then?
> 
> ...


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## Samwell Seed Well (Oct 14, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> *I* didn't say life begins at conception, *science* did/does. You can say it's not viable/sentient/conscious/whatever, but it's most definitely life.


with that mentality that cell activity is equal to life

then tanning would be illegal or plastic surgery, if you love life so much that the essence of a life forms creation is sacred more power to you

but it doesnt change the fact that until a baby is born its life is in the hands its mother, and people have free will over what happens to their bodies 

some believe this and some believe that

respect their choice to make a choice


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 14, 2011)

No, I never will. Because it's not *their* body.



Samwell Seed Well said:


> with that mentality that cell activity is equal to life
> 
> then tanning would be illegal or plastic surgery, if you love life so much that the essence of a life forms creation is sacred more power to you
> 
> ...


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## Samwell Seed Well (Oct 14, 2011)

free will . . . . .



SoCaldrums said:


> No, I never will. Because it's not *their* body.


your statement boils my blood,

so much hate and oppression should never be born from faith or religion


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## 0011StealTH (Oct 14, 2011)

Abortion.

its absurd. how in the fuck are you going to decided if a human being will live or die

SHOULD of wrapped it up uh?


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 14, 2011)

0011StealTH said:


> Abortion.
> 
> its absurd. how in the fuck are you going to decided if a human being will live or die
> 
> SHOULD of wrapped it up uh?


LOL Maybe if you consider a group of cells that just looks like little bit of flesh human, but eh.


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## diesel15 (Oct 14, 2011)

everybody imet who claims they don't believe in God, deep down truly knows theirs a God. but their more interested in pleasure on earth than they are in doing Gods will. eventually they feel guilty because deep down they know their wrong in not being obedient to God and the devil comes along and starts putting things in their head, pulling them farther away from God to the point where they deny him. imean you blind if you cant see theirs a God, the prophecies of the bible happened foreal and are happening as written. were livin in the last days, things are happening the exact way its written in the bible, but you dont have to take my word for it because you can look yourself and be a witness with your own eyes. iprayed to the Lord last night that the Holy Ghost be with me in my heart, and iswear on my life that ifelt it. like nothing else iever felt before in my whole life, a feeling so great and wonderful icant explain it. repent and submit while you still have time because once you die and go to hell, the doors of mercy will be forever shut.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

...in a way, the 'sad' part is adopted kids could've been aborted and not had a chance...for what it's worth, I've been 'allowed' to live and I'm grateful.

That said, there are extreme circumstances, such as morgan's case which call for this.


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## 0011StealTH (Oct 14, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> LOL Maybe if you consider a group of cells that just looks like little bit of flesh human, but eh.


shit doesnt surprise me at all since we are all one


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## Samwell Seed Well (Oct 14, 2011)

cells are not all alike thats why your dick grows on your pelvis and not your face


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## 0011StealTH (Oct 14, 2011)

Samwell Seed Well said:


> cells are not all alike thats why your dick grows on your pelvis and not your face


lol a pennis face.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Samwell Seed Well said:


> cells are not all alike thats why your dick grows on your pelvis and not your face




...fckhead.

...haha!


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

diesel15 said:


> everybody imet who claims they don't believe in God, deep down truly knows theirs a God. but their more interested in pleasure on earth than they are in doing Gods will. eventually they feel guilty because deep down they know their wrong in not being obedient to God and the devil comes along and starts putting things in their head, pulling them farther away from God to the point where they deny him. imean you blind if you cant see theirs a God, the prophecies of the bible happened foreal and are happening as written. were livin in the last days, things are happening the exact way its written in the bible, but you dont have to take my word for it because you can look yourself and be a witness with your own eyes. iprayed to the Lord last night that the Holy Ghost be with me in my heart, and iswear on my life that ifelt it. like nothing else iever felt before in my whole life, a feeling so great and wonderful icant explain it. repent and submit while you still have time because once you die and go to hell, the doors of mercy will be forever shut.


 Bat shit crazy-talk.


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## RawBudzski (Oct 14, 2011)

Bump for logic.


Harrekin said:


> Bat shit crazy-talk.


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## Morgan Lynn (Oct 14, 2011)

splifchris said:


> ^^^^Baby killer^^^^


Thats a name I've heard a lot in my life.

Baby killer, whore, slut, murderer, and a copious amount of other insults.

The only thing is, people who insult me and call me names because they disagree with what I chose to do, have NO intentions of adopting my baby or even helping me out with my pregnancy. They just flap their jaws and blast me with insults hoping to hurt me because they simply disagree with something that had nothing to do with them. I refuse to get angry with these people anymore because they can't help it. It's human nature to wrench our fists up other peoples assholes because we don't agree with their choices.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

Morgan Lynn said:


> Thats a name I've heard a lot in my life.
> 
> Baby killer, whore, slut, murderer, and a copious amount of other insults.
> 
> The only thing is, people who insult me and call me names because they disagree with what I chose to do, have NO intentions of adopting my baby or even helping me out with my pregnancy. They just flap their jaws and blast me with insults hoping to hurt me because they simply disagree with something that had nothing to do with them. I refuse to get angry with these people anymore because they can't help it. It's human nature to wrench our fists up other peoples assholes because we don't agree with their choices.





...that's the thing with people, they disagree by nature it seems - auto-opposed and ready for battle.

...and, of course, some of them likely pay money to see the whole fist-wrenching deal, so...


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

Samwell Seed Well said:


> cells are not all alike thats why your dick grows on your pelvis and not your face


 Cells initially all have the same precursor that are influenced by hormones, etc to differenciate... hence the huge interest in stem cell research.

Your statement is like saying a brick isnt stone.


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## ChronicObsession (Oct 14, 2011)

I am a father of two beautiful babies. Abortion is an individual choice, NOT a government policy. If abortion is about morals and belief in a choice of right and wrong, then people should INVIDUALLY know... Nike, Just Do It, or fucking don't! Peace brothers!


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## Samwell Seed Well (Oct 14, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Cells initially all have the same precursor that are influenced by hormones, etc to differenciate... hence the huge interest in stem cell research.
> 
> Your statement is like saying a brick isnt stone.


ya i know cells all have a basic state and then are triggered to grow into whatever, thats why even a fertilized embro is still just a cell, a very specific cell but not a child or human yet

So a human fetus is just the same as a stem cell??? is this what brick and stones have in common

and a brick isnt a stone, is a compression of a lot of mortor and ceramics and other minerals im sure


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> I am a father of two beautiful babies. Abortion is an individual choice, NOT a government policy. If abortion is about morals and belief in a choice of right and wrong, then people should INVIDUALLY know... Nike, Just Do It, or fucking don't! Peace brothers!


 Nicely said bro.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 14, 2011)

ChronicObsession said:


> I am a father of two beautiful babies. Abortion is an individual choice, NOT a government policy. If abortion is about morals and belief in a choice of right and wrong, then people should INVIDUALLY know... Nike, Just Do It, or fucking don't! Peace brothers!




...see? That's what happens when you pull teeth from your cat's mouth! Don't do it.


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## Harrekin (Oct 14, 2011)

Samwell Seed Well said:


> ya i know cells all have a basic state and then are triggered to grow what ever, thats why even a fertilized embro is still jsut a cell and not a child or human yet


 Its so hard to misinterpret whats said without any sorta tone, picked up wrong on your previous post, seems we're on the same page tho.


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## cannabineer (Oct 15, 2011)

Some "Jesues and Mo" for this thread ... cn


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 15, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> Some "Jesues and Mo" for this thread ... cn


Here here! Let us continue the subjugation of women and children!!!


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 15, 2011)

That would make some sense if anyone here was arguing against abortion from a biblical standpoint...which you may notice I haven't (and never do)



cannabineer said:


> Some "Jesues and Mo" for this thread ... cn


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## bethanybrawndo (Oct 15, 2011)

I'm 100% Pro-choice. It's not my body, so I should have no say in what they do. In turn, if it was me, it's my body and you have no say in what I do.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> That would make some sense if anyone here was arguing against abortion from a biblical standpoint...which you may notice I haven't (and never do)


Yeah, besides the insult towards neer, that's exactly what I thought. But I'm pretty sure he was just joking.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

bethanybrawndo said:


> I'm 100% Pro-choice. It's not my body, so I should have no say in what they do. In turn, if it was me, it's my body and you have no say in what I do.


That's cool....


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## bethanybrawndo (Oct 15, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> That's cool....


I know its cool, I said it.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 15, 2011)

bethanybrawndo said:


> I know its cool, I said it.


For sure.......


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 16, 2011)

Haha. RIGHT. Cause religion hasn't been dragged into this a dozen times over.


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## Joos Springsteen (Oct 16, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I believe they had the choice to either get surgery to not have a kid, use condoms, or birth control, or just not have sex at all. But they decided to ignore the consequences and got stuck with a baby, and now people want to abort it?
> The way you word it makes me seem like I'm thinking unlogically, but these people had plenty of choices and they already chose, so now it's time to stick by their decision.


Almost. The question is, who makes you Grand Arbiter in deciding when the freedom of choice ceases? 

I fail in understanding why those holding to anti-abortion beliefs are still so zealous. As it stands in this country, abortions are not generally performed past the 22nd week of pregnancy, and abortions performed past this point are all together illegal in several states. More to that, it is my understanding of the issue that fetus viability during and before the 22nd week of pregnancy is near 0%.

Assuming the above to be true, it appears we as a society have recognized that at some point during a pregnancy, the fetus becomes a human and can survive outside the womb, albeit mechanically. Having recognized the problem of killing pre-natal humans, abortion regulation has been dialed to the point where humans aren't being killed in the womb and the freedom of a woman to choose, over the course of 5 months, whether or not to undergo an abortion procedure remains intact. 

Having reached this point, it seems to me that any further push by the anti-abortion crowd truly is an encroachment against women's rights; and to make any further push demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of freedom. If it helps, try thinking of your, my, and everyone's freedom as your dinner plate when you were a kid; you might not like everything on it, but you have to clean that plate up if you want to stay strong and healthy.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 16, 2011)

Joos Springsteen said:


> If it helps, try thinking of your, my, and everyone's freedom as your dinner plate when you were a kid; you might not like everything on it, but you have to clean that plate up if you want to stay strong and healthy.


I didn't clean my plate up all the time and I'm still reasonably strong and healthy.


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## father&son (Oct 16, 2011)

hey april um this is my husbands profile i seen the topic and had to post ..in any event of that happing i totally see where you are coming from i would never ever wish rape or ne assaault on you y wish the same on me,,,,,i do see what u say on the victims of a rape,and i do see what you mean on that but i just dnt see y all these no good people can end up prego and just go have it gone...its so not fair to that childs life that is all i meant...but i do hope u never have to face this disissioin...but i do stand by my prolife...


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 16, 2011)

father&son said:


> hey april um this is my husbands profile i seen the topic and had to post ..in any event of that happing i totally see where you are coming from i would never ever wish rape or ne assaault on you y wish the same on me,,,,,i do see what u say on the victims of a rape,and i do see what you mean on that but i just dnt see y all these no good people can end up prego and just go have it gone...its so not fair to that childs life that is all i meant...but i do hope u never have to face this disissioin...but i do stand by my prolife...


 People still calling the ball of cells a child...


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 16, 2011)

I just don't understand how people call something that is so clearly NOT a child a child....





<---- A child







<---- NOT a child


There are some small differences in the two pictures, I'll leave it to the pro-lifers to figure them out.


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## carl.burnette (Oct 17, 2011)

Oh boy...

The first pic of is of a child because why? Its self sufficient? It can survive on its own? Its walks talks & shits?
The second picture is not a child because of the opposite reasons I guess.

Hope you never end up in a hospital or old age home on some form of life support. Can't talk to ask for food? well then I guess killing the person is certainly an option. Oh, coma? Can't respond to stimuli etc? 

Ah, but comas & veg stats CAN be temporary, so therefor we don't really have the option to "abort" the adult in these situations. But what if Grammy or Grammpy coming out of the coma causes us undo hardships? Hmm.. Still can't waste them eh?

Those little cells will become a person within a 10 month period.

Every hear that bit on the phone call? When does a call become a call... when I dial, when the other person picks up? When there is vocal communication? 

We can't come to agreement on the phone call connection time line, but we want to risk a human life without knowing WHEN life starts. 

Anyone remember when they used Alpha waves (brain activity) to determine life. Know why they dont do that any more? The equipment got more & more sensitive & they found alpha & Beta waves far sooner than they had before. So by their own benchmark Life started well before the 20 week period. 

Toss the alpha wave test out..

watch a video of a late term abortion. Watch the fetus (which is just the latin word for baby) baby struggle while being burned by the saline solution that's used. Tell me its not alive. Fuck, most people would try to protect a kitten from going through it, but fuck the children.

call it what it is. I am of the opinion that life starts at conception & because of that, I must err on the side of caution & vote no go on the abortion issue. Its amazing how people will goto war over an issue like this but those same people who will fight for the right to kill an unwanted child will die themselves to save a dolphin.

I want to go & get some sea turtle eggs. GREAT omelet. sea turtles are protected, but the eggs arent 

actually, they are... but I was trying to show the point that if sea turtles eggs are protected the same as sea turtles, how come humans arent given the same protection other than the fact that people arent endangered.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 17, 2011)

carl.burnette said:


> Oh boy...
> 
> The first pic of is of a child because why? Its self sufficient? It can survive on its own? Its walks talks & shits?
> The second picture is not a child because of the opposite reasons I guess.


 LOL The second picture is not a child because it's not even a human. lol


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 17, 2011)

<applause> Let's say there's a pregnancy...and it's determined the infant was a female. Lets say that's unacceptable...a male was the desired sex. So lets say the female was aborted. Most here wouldn't have a problem with that...yes?

Now let's say it was a female Polar Bear fetus.



carl.burnette said:


> Oh boy...
> 
> The first pic of is of a child because why? Its self sufficient? It can survive on its own? Its walks talks & shits?
> The second picture is not a child because of the opposite reasons I guess.
> ...


----------



## cannabineer (Oct 17, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> <applause> Let's say there's a pregnancy...and it's determined the infant was a female. Lets say that's unacceptable...a male was the desired sex. So lets say the female was aborted. Most here wouldn't have a problem with that...yes?
> 
> Now let's say it was a female Polar Bear fetus.


... You rang? cn


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 17, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> ... You rang? cn


You're not a female...... Polar Bear fetus.


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## Harrekin (Oct 17, 2011)

I don't see why all the afterlife believing God people have such a problem with abortion tbh, wouldnt the child just go back to God thus skipping the cruelty of life? Wouldn't they be without sin too? 

Just throwing it out there


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 17, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> I don't see why all the afterlife believing God people have such a problem with abortion tbh, wouldnt the child just go back to God thus skipping the cruelty of life? Wouldn't they be without sin too?
> 
> Just throwing it out there


  Dude! It's genius! Just kill them before they're even born and you'll be doing the little bastard the greatest favor ever! The most sure shot a person has at getting into heaven!


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 17, 2011)

I don't see how/why spirituality fits into the debate.



Harrekin said:


> I don't see why all the afterlife believing God people have such a problem with abortion tbh, wouldnt the child just go back to God thus skipping the cruelty of life? Wouldn't they be without sin too?
> 
> Just throwing it out there


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 17, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> I don't see how/why spirituality fits into the debate.


Because you were the first person to bring it into it.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 17, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> I don't see how/why spirituality fits into the debate.


sin is considered as 'missing the mark' - maybe we're here to 'get it right this arrow - sorry, time'. And hey, what if this IS your afterlife?

(hehe...)

**Harrekin's quote is not here, should be though...

Here: *"wouldnt the child just go back to God thus skipping the cruelty of life? Wouldn't they be without sin too?"*


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 17, 2011)

Care to show me where?



The Cryptkeeper said:


> Because you were the first person to bring it into it.


----------



## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 17, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Care to show me where?


No, I don't. lol *zing!*


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## april (Oct 17, 2011)

father&son said:


> hey april um this is my husbands profile i seen the topic and had to post ..in any event of that happing i totally see where you are coming from i would never ever wish rape or ne assaault on you y wish the same on me,,,,,i do see what u say on the victims of a rape,and i do see what you mean on that but i just dnt see y all these no good people can end up prego and just go have it gone...its so not fair to that childs life that is all i meant...but i do hope u never have to face this disissioin...but i do stand by my prolife...


I went to a private french catholic school that did not even sell tampons, sex before marriage was very much frowned upon, abortion was drilled into everyones head as muder, so being fully educated on both the religious and medical aspects i feel i have no issues speaking on this subject or standing behind my views. Thank u for posting but u never actualy said what u would do faced in such a horrible situation ( raped and preggo) i just hope u don't ever face this choice urself it makes me sad to think of what these women and men go thru  

Don't allow someone to decide what u do with ur body if u were never given the choice to begin with.
So can a rapist fight for custody also? is child support paid?


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 17, 2011)

Right. Because it never happened.



The Cryptkeeper said:


> No, I don't. lol *zing!*


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 17, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Right. Because it never happened.


Looks like another thing went right over your Jesus freak head.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 17, 2011)

april said:


> So can a rapist fight for custody also? is child support paid?


.....whoa!


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## april (Oct 17, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> .....whoa!


banana? I'm pro choice if the women is responsible and not a whore 

Just making a point, mine are just very sharp


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 17, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> .....whoa!


LoL Can you imagine the rapist giving the baby she's carried for 9 months and given birth to over to the man she raped? x)


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 17, 2011)

april said:


> banana? I'm pro choice if the women is responsible and not a whore


...thanks, but I'm trying to quit, those things will spill you. 

I have personal take on it because of being adopted. I wouldn't even know how to type, or anything...


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## Harrekin (Oct 17, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> .....whoa!


Pretty sure technically a felony doesn't remove a fathers right to a child as paternity is currently judged based on genetics...

Even some sperm doners were being chased for child support...so I suppose technically the rapist could apply for access.

Fucked up but true.


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## Morgan Lynn (Oct 17, 2011)

If a sexually abused woman was not legally allowed to medically terminate her pregnancy it would make the rape seem validated. It's like saying "we don't care why/how/or when you were raped, we just care about that underdeveloped collaboration of cells, tissues, and chromosomes that you don't want inside you."

I love how people try to make the womb this sacred place that should never be tampered with. There are billions of wombs and uteruses on this planet. They aren't sacred anymore. We are not in dire need of procreation; we're in dire need of less procreation. A woman who is raped is not going to wait 20 weeks to figure out she wants an abortion. She wants it out and she wants it out now.


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## april (Oct 17, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...thanks, but I'm trying to quit, those things will spill you.
> 
> I have personal take on it because of being adopted. I wouldn't even know how to type, or anything...


My mother and step brother are both adopted, i have a gay brother, my father died when i was 9, and my mother has since re married


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 17, 2011)

april said:


> My mother and step brother are both adopted, i have a gay brother, my father died when i was 9, and my mother has since re married


mon d'yeux! 

...sorry, the one liners are a way to deflect a bit of it. It's a fckd up choice for anyone to have to make. And, sorry about your dad. Just about lost mine 2 years ago.


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## april (Oct 17, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Pretty sure technically a felony doesn't remove a fathers right to a child as paternity is currently judged based on genetics...
> 
> Even some sperm doners were being chased for child support...so I suppose technically the rapist could apply for access.
> 
> Fucked up but true.


WHOA!!!! Now that's some messed up justice right there, i assumed men gave up paternal rights (consent form) and women also signed something stating they accepted the donations as a "gift" and will assume all financial responsibilities? damn i live in a logical fantasy land way 2 often


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 17, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> LoL Can you imagine the rapist giving the baby she's carried for 9 months and given birth to over to the man she raped? x)


I know you're pretty good with the typing, and I admit that I can rearrange words sometimes without knowing it. So, I'll take a stab here and say that you're implying the 'ole switcheroo?? Fck yeah, that would work!


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 17, 2011)

Is that wink thing supposed to mean you're *not* an asshole?



The Cryptkeeper said:


> Looks like another thing went right over your Jesus freak head.


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## Morgan Lynn (Oct 17, 2011)

If you rape a woman, get her pregnant, and are caught, you're fucked buddy.

Money would be the only restitution he could provide to her and the child.


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## Harrekin (Oct 17, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> Is that wink thing supposed to mean you're *not* an asshole?


Do try keep up man, you're miles behind.


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## SoCaldrums (Oct 17, 2011)

wtf are you talking about?



Harrekin said:


> Do try keep up man, you're miles behind.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 17, 2011)

I'm miles ahead of time, so fast you guys won't see my post until 10/17/11... man I'm fast.


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## Farfenugen (Oct 17, 2011)

Too many unwanted kids to feed in this world as it is. And besides it is a _woman's_ choice, NOT a man's or government's or religion's.
Nuff said.


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## bethanybrawndo (Oct 17, 2011)

Farfenugen said:


> Too many unwanted kids to feed in this world as it is. And besides it is a _woman's_ choice, NOT a man's or government's or religion's.
> Nuff said.


Exactly....and it's ONLY the pregnant woman's choice. No one else should be able to tell her what to do with her body.


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## Harrekin (Oct 17, 2011)

SoCaldrums said:


> wtf are you talking about?


See now you got left behind!


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## malignant (Oct 17, 2011)

if its your body, its your choice


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 18, 2011)

Farfenugen said:


> Too many unwanted kids to feed in this world as it is. And besides it is a _woman's_ choice, NOT a man's or government's or religion's.
> Nuff said.


If people really wanted to feed every kid, is would be easily done. So that shouldn't be a factor.
So legally the father doesn't have a word in the situation? Well that's fucked up....


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## Harrekin (Oct 18, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> If people really wanted to feed every kid, is would be easily done. So that shouldn't be a factor.
> So legally the father doesn't have a word in the situation? Well that's fucked up....


 Well if the father doesnt have a say then he's with the wrong woman anyways, so he probably doesnt want a kid with her  Trust me, women are seriously fucked in the head sometimes.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 18, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Well if the father doesnt have a say then he's with the wrong woman anyways, so he probably doesnt want a kid with her  Trust me, women are seriously fucked in the head sometimes.


That's true, even he still wanted the kid he should have known what would happen if she got pregnant....


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## Harrekin (Oct 18, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> That's true, even he still wanted the kid he should have known what would happen if she got pregnant....


 Its not always cut and dried tho, there is alot of grey areas...thats why outlawing abortion is just ridiculous.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 18, 2011)

It's a joint decision...


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 18, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> It's a joint decision...


...yep, they _could_ have a joint together and consider the avenues... if she weren't pregnant! Man must carry this burden alone...


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## carl.burnette (Oct 20, 2011)

Agreed... but!

If you believe in God & his plan than the child was Gods intention in the first place. I believe that no child is an accident, therefore you would be going against Gods will having the abortion.


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## carl.burnette (Oct 20, 2011)

With this logic there are 2 victims. The woman that was raped/abused etc & then the child. Because an atrocity was done to one person, the other person who is affected by it shouldn't be punished. 

This is the same logic that the rebels in Libya want Qaddafi's family (wife & kids) all put to death as well, because their father's an asshole?? 


Although I am VERY pro life.. I can at least, although not agree with, understand the logic behind abortion due to these circumstances.



Morgan Lynn said:


> If a sexually abused woman was not legally allowed to medically terminate her pregnancy it would make the rape seem validated. It's like saying "we don't care why/how/or when you were raped, we just care about that underdeveloped collaboration of cells, tissues, and chromosomes that you don't want inside you."
> 
> I love how people try to make the womb this sacred place that should never be tampered with. There are billions of wombs and uteruses on this planet. They aren't sacred anymore. We are not in dire need of procreation; we're in dire need of less procreation. A woman who is raped is not going to wait 20 weeks to figure out she wants an abortion. She wants it out and she wants it out now.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 20, 2011)

GOD DAMN'T! Are you people STILL saying 'child'?! Religious freaks are crazy but goddamn come on...


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 20, 2011)

carl.burnette said:


> Agreed... but!
> 
> If you believe in God & his plan than the child was Gods intention in the first place. I believe that no child is an accident, therefore you would be going against Gods will having the abortion.


If you believe in god's plan, you don't think that every abortion that happens isn't part of his plan? God knows everything before it happens, he knows what you're thinking, and he knows what you will think before you think it, so how could he not know that some people would get abortions? If fact, how wouldn't god know that abortions would happen before he even made existence? God literally knows everything.... 

So, I'm not sure I see your logic...


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 20, 2011)

carl.burnette said:


> With this logic there are 2 victims. The woman that was raped/abused etc & then the child. Because an atrocity was done to one person, the other person who is affected by it shouldn't be punished.
> 
> This is the same logic that the rebels in Libya want Qaddafi's family (wife & kids) all put to death as well, because their father's an asshole??
> 
> ...


Nope, one victim. The woman.

The cells inside her aren't a person. Qaddafi's family are clearly people. Apples and oranges...


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## Harrekin (Oct 20, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Nope, one victim. The woman.
> 
> The cells inside her aren't a person. Qaddafi's family are clearly people. Apples and oranges...


Gadaffi, with a G. 

And his family are just as fucked in the head as him...but it doesn't matter anyways, they're basically all dead now anyways.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 20, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Gadaffi, with a G.
> 
> And his family are just as fucked in the head as him...but it doesn't matter anyways, they're basically all dead now anyways.


That'll teach me to C&P lol


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvF1Q3UidWM&t=3m12s

Wow it just wouldn't let me embed that for some reason.... George Carlin on abortion


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 21, 2011)

BudDub said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvF1Q3UidWM&t=3m12s
> 
> Wow it just wouldn't let me embed that for some reason.... George Carlin on abortion


3:29 errrrrch.

...if your buddy, uncle, etc. is on the way, is he alive? 

*don't get me wrong, the first many minutes of this video are soooo fkcn accurate.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 21, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> 3:29 errrrrch.
> 
> ...if your buddy, uncle, etc. is on the way, is he alive?
> 
> *don't get me wrong, the first many minutes of this video are soooo fkcn accurate.


Haven't you learned yet. You can't argue with George Carlin. He's so evidently the second coming, god on Earth.


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> 3:29 errrrrch.
> 
> ...if your buddy, uncle, etc. is on the way, is he alive?
> 
> *don't get me wrong, the first many minutes of this video are soooo fkcn accurate.


Well this is what your saying....'if my wife was pregnant then my son is alive'. I say "Why do the majority of women that have miscarriages refuse to have a funeral considering by your definition that baby is already alive?"


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 21, 2011)

Dude. It's alive alright. It's just not a person. It's a fucking fetus. An amalgamation of reproductive cells..


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 21, 2011)

BudDub said:


> Well this is what your saying....'if my wife was pregnant then my son is alive'. I say "Why do the majority of women that have miscarriages refuse to have a funeral considering by your definition that baby is already alive?"


...I was replying to the joke itself. I like this guy, no worries there. I'm really not quite awake and more or less fooling around - gimme 20


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## Justin00 (Oct 21, 2011)

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

take if for what you will but this is the reason so many stand in opposition to abortion. Most do not feel that it is there duty to instruct others in right and wrong but rather it is felt that to stand aside and do nothing would be the same as watching a murder or robbery and standing to the side and simply watching. Weather you agree or disagree the reasoning is not purely directed at the removal of rights from a group of ppl as many seen to think it is. If the prize being competed for was anything other than the future of an innocent human life then i feel the opposition would not exist much less press its will upon others. would you like everyone to completely remove themselves from the business of everyone else? who will stand up for your rights when you are being robbed raped or killed in the future or will you gladly stand alone then, and hope everyone minds there own business..... its not the ppl supporting abortion who will come to your aid, is it not there right to rob rape or kill you if they are able to, just as its your right to do what ever you want to the weak child inside of you, it will be the same ppl who are standing up for you then that are standing against you now and will continue to stand against evil no matter how it presents itself. not matter what side you stand on on individual matters there will always be those who stand up for no other reason than to prevent the victory of evil and that which we currently define as wrong (the definition of wrong has changed many times over time and most certainly will change again in the near future, and we must ask what will we consider wrong then, will murder, robbery, or rape be considered acceptable or simply frowned upon? are your hopes and plans the most extrema? where do you draw the line? the line between right and wrong has grown into a crater or canyon in which nearly all moral decisions are cast in modern america, how big will it grow?).


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 21, 2011)

BudDub said:


> Well this is what your saying....'if my wife was pregnant then my son is alive'. I say "Why do the majority of women that have miscarriages refuse to have a funeral considering by your definition that baby is already alive?"


...I'd say those funerals are held 'within' the woman.


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I'd say those funerals are held 'within' the woman.


You act like nothing comes out....


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 21, 2011)

BudDub said:


> You act like nothing comes out....


...with respect to women here who may have had one, re-read my post. And then we'll purposely derail this.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 21, 2011)

The land of the free isn't the land of the free when you stick your noes in others business and try to control their lives.


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> The land of the free isn't the land of the free when you stick your noes in others business and try to control their lives.


I agree with this. Even if abortion was made illegal it would still happen. Why put young girls at risk (back alley abortions) because you don't like the idea of what there doing?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 21, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> The land of the free isn't the land of the free when you stick your noes in others business and try to control their lives.


...one thing is certain to me. I'd _really_ speak about this if I were speaking to someone directly in front of me, and that person was the person potentially aborting. I have no say on other people's lives. No question that this is a personal scenario. It would have to be me and the pregnant woman, that's it. The rest of this mess is an unfortunate one.


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...with respect to women here who may have had one, re-read my post. And then we'll purposely derail this.


Sure okay... But my agrument remains. The mother is more attached to her child then anyone while she is carring. Why wouldn't she want a funeral? Maybe because its not fully a child yet. Maybe its more part of her body then it is an individual.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 21, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...one thing is certain to me. I'd _really_ speak about this if I were speaking to someone directly in front of me, and that person was the person potentially aborting. I have no say on other people's lives. No question that this is a personal scenario. It would have to be me and the pregnant woman, that's it. The rest of this mess is an unfortunate one.


I'm glad you feel so passionately about a situation you're not in that you have to badger an already socially excluded young girl with your moral principles.


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## Justin00 (Oct 21, 2011)

do you really want to live in "the land of the free" where everyone is free to do whatever they want? no matter what it is? even if it is killing each other openly?


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 21, 2011)

Justin00 said:


> do you really want to live in "the land of the free" where everyone is free to do whatever they want? no matter what it is? even if it is killing each other openly?


 So fucking cliche. Yes. That is what 'free' means. Right?


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## Justin00 (Oct 21, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> So fucking cliche. Yes. That is what 'free' means. Right?


thats what i took it to mean from your previous statement. you want no one to mess in anyone else's business. and buy business you hint that you actually mean life in any way.

do i want anyone to tell me wether or not i can or cannot do anything? No, i don't want anyone telling me what i can and can't do, but do i also accept that if that right were extended to everyone this would be a terrifying place to live.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 21, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> I'm glad you feel so passionately about a situation you're not in that you have to badger an already socially excluded young girl with your moral principles.


...(french) Pardon?  My post was about Carlin, I've pointed that out. *removes the hook*


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 21, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...(french) Pardon?  My post was about Carlin, I've pointed that out. *removes the hook*


 How in heavens name were you talking about Carlin?


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 21, 2011)

Justin00 said:


> thats what i took it to mean from your previous statement. you want no one to mess in anyone else's business. and buy business you hint that you actually mean life in any way.


Uh? Are you serious? You think that there is EVER a time where a person should _mess_ in anothers business?


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

Justin00 said:


> do you really want to live in "the land of the free" where everyone is free to do whatever they want? no matter what it is? even if it is killing each other openly?


So I take it you feel abortion is murder right? Why? Isn't a fetus dependent on the mother for life? Therefore, it does not have a life of its own, correct?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 21, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> How in heavens name were you talking about Carlin?


3:29 errch. How the fck it got here I dunno. Last thing I posted about it was to say that I really would only want to discuss this 'seriously' if I were in the situation - and felt that commenting was mostly irrelevant to people's specific situations anyway.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 21, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> 3:29 errch. How the fck it got here I dunno. Last thing I posted about it was to say that I really would only want to discuss this 'seriously' if I were in the situation - and felt that commenting was mostly irrelevant to people's specific situations anyway.


I have no idea what you're talking about anymore.


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## Justin00 (Oct 21, 2011)

this is not an argument of right and wrong, this is a contest to see who is able to devise the most complicated argument and counter those who would oppose.

what we do not realize is there is no end..... there is no victory to be had and we fight on because its what we believe in. we have no common ground on which to base our argument, we have no shared definition of right and wrong, and unless we can find some common ground we might as well be speaking in different languages. all we are able to do is twist the meanings of words or make associations to confuse our opposition.

but until then we can continue this =)


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> I have no idea what you're talking about anymore.


Neither does he... Or maybe he just has a way with words. Either way Im convinced.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 21, 2011)

Justin00 said:


> this is not an argument of right and wrong, this is a contest to see who is able to devise the most complicated argument and counter those who would oppose.
> 
> what we do not realize is there is no end..... there is no victory to be had and we fight on because its what we believe in. we have no common ground on which to base our argument, we have no shared definition of right and wrong, and unless we can find some common ground we might as well be speaking in different languages. all we are able to do is twist the meanings of words or make associations to confuse our opposition.
> 
> but until then we can continue this =)


 You do realize just because you say all these things it doesn't make them true right?


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## Justin00 (Oct 21, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Uh? Are you serious? You think that there is EVER a time where a person should _mess_ in anothers business?


yes if that person just killed another one, if that person just assaulted another one unprovoked, if one person robs another one, of a child is being abused, ect....

do you disagree?


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 21, 2011)

Justin00 said:


> yes if that person just killed another one, if that person just assaulted another one unprovoked, if one person robs another one, of a child is being abused, ect....
> 
> do you disagree?


If it's none of your business, then yes.  I do disagree.


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## Justin00 (Oct 21, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> You do realize just because you say all these things it doesn't make them true right?


how can we resolve an argument like this without first meeting the conditions i outlined in my other post?


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 21, 2011)

Justin00 said:


> how can we resolve an argument like this without first meeting the conditions i outlined in my other post?


It's not an argument it's a debate, and debate's are not meant to be resolved. They are meant to be continued and individuals end their part of the debate at their own discretion. Never been in a debate?


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## Justin00 (Oct 21, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> If it's none of your business, then yes.  I do disagree.



then you have just pointed out why you and i could never resolve this conversation.

i feel it is wrong to turn your back on another person being harmed weather its my problem or not.

you feel we should all turn our backs and walk away while we hear the screams of others fading behind us.

and yes i said those things is a way to present myself as the positive one and you as the negative, and thats all that can be done when you and i share no moral foundations.


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

Justin00 said:


> this is not an argument of right and wrong, this is a contest to see who is able to devise the most complicated argument and counter those who would oppose.
> 
> what we do not realize is there is no end..... there is no victory to be had and we fight on because its what we believe in. we have no common ground on which to base our argument, we have no shared definition of right and wrong, and unless we can find some common ground we might as well be speaking in different languages. all we are able to do is twist the meanings of words or make associations to confuse our opposition.
> 
> but until then we can continue this =)


Well see heres were your logic has failed you because at this present time abortion is legal and this thread would stand as a debate between that and the idea of it being 'wrong'. So your saying we cannot debate until we set a standard for what is right and what is wrong but how can you set a standard without actually debating the topic first?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 21, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> I have no idea what you're talking about anymore.


[video=youtube;rEFQTY4hjUk]http://www.youtube.com/watchv=rEFQTY4hjUk[/video]


salut.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 21, 2011)

Justin00 said:


> then you have just pointed out why you and i could never resolve this conversation.
> 
> i feel it is wrong to turn your back on another person being harmed weather its my problem or not.
> 
> ...


Ya. That about sums it up. You're having a debate with a moral nihilist, and you're the ignorant moral chump who believes that you can 'resolve' a debate.


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

Damn I'm so slow....


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## Justin00 (Oct 21, 2011)

BudDub said:


> Well see heres were your logic has failed you because at this present time abortion is legal and this thread would stand as a debate between that and the idea of it being 'wrong'. So your saying we cannot debate until we set a standard for what is right and what is wrong but how can you set a standard without actually debating the topic first?


respect - well said, now you see what i mean. we must find things in common that we all feel are wrong or right then we can each attempt to show similarities or differences in thoes things and abortion and thus reach some degree of agreement.


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## Justin00 (Oct 21, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Ya. That about sums it up. You're having a debate with a moral nihilist, and you're the ignorant moral chump who believes that you can 'resolve' a debate.


now come on - i have not once resorted to name calling and insults. please don't give up on civil conversation so quickly.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 21, 2011)

Justin00 said:


> now come on - i have not once resorted to name calling and insults. please don't give up on civil conversation so quickly.


You might actually be the most judgmental fool I've met on this site.  That is saying A LOT. I'm serious. That is a terrible title for you to bear.


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## Justin00 (Oct 21, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> You might actually be the most judgmental fool I've met on this site.  That is saying A LOT. I'm serious. That is a terrible title for you to bear.


wow you have really dropped all pretenses of continuing a civilized debate, is that really the best you can do? abandon all hope of respectful conversation and turn blatantly to childish means of solving disagreements? i can not speak for anyone else but you have clearly given up any attempts to honorably represent your side of this argument. well there is no longer anything to be gained by trying to speak to you now. carry on with your anger blinded ignorance (and that is in no way directed at your opinion on abortion) I only wish we could have stopped this conversation before you were pushed to this point. I wish you the best and hope we can continue to associate without grudge in other topics, i harbor no hard feelings toward you or your opinions and only regret that you feel the way you do about me.

and in leaving i would like to at least let you know that i do not have solid opinion on abortion. i have beliefs that support both sides and am just as confused as anyone about my stand on the situation. i came to this topic to gain other views and see other side of the debate and while here i was simply sharing opposing views in order to more accurately judge the validity of other views. and would like to thank everyone else here for there input as well.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 21, 2011)

Justin00 said:


> wow you have really dropped all pretenses of continuing a civilized debate, is that really the best you can do? abandon all hope of respectful conversation and turn blatantly to childish means of solving disagreements? i can not speak for anyone else but you have clearly given up any attempts to honorably represent your side of this argument. well there is no longer anything to be gained by trying to speak to you now. carry on with your anger blinded ignorance (and that is in no way directed at your opinion on abortion) I only wish we could have stopped this conversation before you were pushed to this point. I wish you the best and hope we can continue to associate without grudge in other topics, i harbor no hard feelings toward you or your opinions and only regret that you feel the way you do about me.
> 
> and in leaving i would like to at least let you know that i do not have solid opinion on abortion. i have beliefs that support both sides and am just as confused as anyone about my stand on the situation. i came to this topic to gain other views and see other side of the debate and while here i was simply sharing opposing views in order to more accurately judge the validity of other views. and would like to thank everyone else here for there input as well.


LOL Jesus you're REALLY Mr. Pot calling the kettle black. Stop being such a hypocrite and get your facts straight. No argument has taken place my ignorant child.


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## Justin00 (Oct 21, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> LOL Jesus you're REALLY Mr. Pot calling the kettle black. Stop being such a hypocrite and get your facts straight. No argument has taken place my ignorant child.


there are no "facts" only opinions and that is the problem i was under the impression we were attempting to work around. Thank you for you opinion =), and i will go ahead and apologize for the cold pretense i wrote my last reply in. it is slightly frustrating when you are actually trying to have a conversation and the other side begins adding insults and disrespectful names to there replies. i really don't understand where all your anger is coming from. 

you describe yourself as a "moral nihilist" and i have no problem accepting that and continuing our conversation with that proclamation in mind and approach the debate from another direction if you will permit it.


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## The Cryptkeeper (Oct 21, 2011)

Even figures of speech fly over this guys head.


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## Justin00 (Oct 21, 2011)

The Cryptkeeper said:


> Even figures of speech fly over this guys head.


i apologize for my ignorance of the "figure of speech" you used but the situation can easily be reminded if you would care to explain where i misinterpreted your intentions.


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