# Is one 600 watt enough for a few trees?



## smooth88 (Mar 5, 2013)

I'm in the process of building my new room and I've decided to do a vertical tree setup similar to heaths. I recently bought a solis tek 1000 watt ballast but I still need to pick my bulb. 

The question is will a 600 watt hps be enought for 5-6 trees surrounding the bulb and trained to hug it more so each bud is around 10 inches from the light? Or should I just get a 1000 watt bulb and keep them a little further away? 

Any advice is appreciated and anything solid will get you some +rep thanks

Room will be about 5x7 and 7' high


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## 509Zman420 (Mar 5, 2013)

Hell naw man.... if you are going to do it, then do it right... get the 1000 and grow them bitched  and plus you will be growing in a larger space, you will need the extra wattage to penetrate the leaves.


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## smooth88 (Mar 5, 2013)

Was thinking that but with a 600 I can keep it a couple inches closer and and get about the same out of it plus I'll need to run another outlet to the room because the 1000 will trip the breaker


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## smooth88 (Mar 5, 2013)

Anyone know of any comparison out there?


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## 509Zman420 (Mar 5, 2013)

aww, didnt know that you had to do more work for the 1000... and true about the 600, but you will not be using the whole space you have. A 600 is just not enough for a 5x7 in vert if you plan on lining the walls, but if you plan on close proximity then the 600 would be fine


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## bird mcbride (Mar 5, 2013)

Unless to could decrease the area to 4'x 4' by hanging reflective screening. I don't know anything about vertical but my brother thinks he's gonna make it in the vegetable greenhouse biz with this vertical thing


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## Nizza (Mar 5, 2013)

2x 600w's i think would be great, with the traditional box fan at the bottom , the reason i say 600> 1000w is because they have a higher output to lumen ratio, meaning a higher gram per watt (if things are done correctly)


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## smooth88 (Mar 5, 2013)

I do have a 400 watt I could use along with it too but no way I'm buying another ballast for 2 600s. At least not now anyway. 

I was actually thinking of doing a little sog or single plant under the 400 in the same room as the vertical tree setup. That would make a 5x4 for the trees, and about 3x4 area with the 400. 

That is unless someone else has a better idea with my space and lights.


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## Nizza (Mar 6, 2013)

Yeah dude either do that or do a bigger single stage flower with both. I like your idea better though, so you can toy around with both
. But I think doing a 400 & 600 vertical in the same room would be better than 1000w


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## Ilovebush (Mar 6, 2013)

U mentioned in the same room...u can try a flip box so you can use one ballast and two bulbs. Run the ballast 24 hours


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## dopedeeii (Mar 6, 2013)

Rule of thumb bro 100 wattsand per plant is great also a 6 wont get as hot and u save money 5or6 under 1000w is a waste of Edisons time and ur money


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## Clown Baby (Mar 6, 2013)

home is where you make it. you can grow trees with either bulb. For all the people saying "you HAVE to use 1000w" just remember that heath rocks 600s and kills it. They're the most efficient bulbs as far as lumens/watt goes. 

Just remember your lumen charts. If you keep a 600w closer, it will do the same job as a 1000w. 

Going 600w vs 1000w is really a function of the number and size of plants you decide to grow. If you have a real job and can afford the extra electricity/have a handle on cooling, go ahead and rock it on 1000.


Also, sorry.
No offense to anyone, but please disregard rules of thumb such as X watts per square foot or x watts per plant. None of those rules of thumb account for plant size or lumen exposure, light distance, etc. for instance you can sog 64 plants in a 4x4 no problem under a 1000w. You can also grow one giant tree under 1000w that will yield the same. it's apples to oranges. Try to read up (not on weed forums) and develop an understanding on lumens and plant nutrition, and you'll be a lot better off.


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## mrCRC420 (Mar 7, 2013)

I love a 600w bruh. Only 5-6 plants, you'll be fine w/ that. Pros: Better temp regulation, lower bills & Cons: Less light


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## dopedeeii (Mar 7, 2013)

None taking the rule of thumb is wat works in my environment I dnt sog. Or scrog I fit frm 9 to 10 2 mth veg plants 3 to four ft depending on strain and. Get3-4 HQ meds but as I said earlier its a lot to pay they get HOT and in a tents hotter but i was just sharing my experience and if u use a new bulb the lumens in tht 6 would be ideal I agree as to a closer 600maybe almost =to a 1000


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## Fazer1rlg (Mar 7, 2013)

2 600 watts > 1000 watt


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## smooth88 (Mar 8, 2013)

Wow thanks guys some great answers in the past day or so. I decided to do the 600 since the reduced heat allows me to keep it closer, and my room isn't real big. One day I'll replicate or at least try to do what Heath is doing with two or three 600's.

ive also always wondered how much does rotating plants actually help. Since I'd only do one 600 all 6 plants or so would lack light penetration on some farther leaves. Is it worth rotating them or do they just waste energy trying to constantly angle their leaves to the light? Ahh I don't know why I'm even asking I'm just gonna spread the branches out so I don't have to move them.

+ rep to ya guys


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## Clown Baby (Mar 9, 2013)

From what I recall reading, most of the people who do trials with rotating say rotating isn't worth it. Personally, I just pruned shoots that weren't growing towards the light.


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## smooth88 (Mar 10, 2013)

Clown Baby said:


> From what I recall reading, most of the people who do trials with rotating say rotating isn't worth it. Personally, I just pruned shoots that weren't growing towards the light.


Ok that's what I'm beginning to think too, so many people say rotating is necessary but, if anything pruning and training would be a much better use of the plants energy. 

A single 600 starting at 18-20" away hung vertically without a cool tube is my decision. I'm goin to use bamboo stakes to train 5-6 topped plans somewhat fanned out so light hits all the buds. I've become obsessed with trying to become as efficient as possible and this should be one of the best ways.


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## DiscreteMeat (Mar 11, 2013)

In the end, those inches don't matter since you can grow nearly double the amount of plants. Definitely go with 1k. Unequivocally. Damn your logic lol... It's about to fail you.


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## wolftickets500 (Mar 11, 2013)

ilovebush has a great point a flipbox is a great little invention. most commercial/large scale growers i know use flipboxes. u dont need all of the lights on all the time, it also helps with heat,i suggest a inline fan that will be able to cool the bulb allowing you to put the light closer,another solution is a light mover. i also tried a splitter that turns a 1000 watt ballast into 2 600's. 600's are the most efficient for lumens per watt. i like the dual arc bulbs for 1000's they are a 600hps and a 400 mh in same bulb.


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## smooth88 (Mar 11, 2013)

DiscreteMeat said:


> In the end, those inches don't matter since you can grow nearly double the amount of plants. Definitely go with 1k. Unequivocally. Damn your logic lol... It's about to fail you.


True I could fit more plants and possibly veg less with the 1000. 

Those dual bulbs do look intriguing if I choose the 1k that's what I'll use.


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## Clown Baby (Mar 11, 2013)

the dual bulbs are essentially a 600w hps and a 400w mh. It's not the true output of either a 1000w mh or hps.


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## smooth88 (Mar 12, 2013)

Yea but having the added spectrum should make up for it don't you think? Or is the penetration of the dual bulbs less


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## 1itsme (Mar 13, 2013)

smooth88 said:


> Wow thanks guys some great answers in the past day or so. I decided to do the 600 since the reduced heat allows me to keep it closer, and my room isn't real big. One day I'll replicate or at least try to do what Heath is doing with two or three 600's.
> 
> ive also always wondered how much does rotating plants actually help. Since I'd only do one 600 all 6 plants or so would lack light penetration on some farther leaves. Is it worth rotating them or do they just waste energy trying to constantly angle their leaves to the light? Ahh I don't know why I'm even asking I'm just gonna spread the branches out so I don't have to move them.
> 
> + rep to ya guys


im doing 5 plants @ a 600w vert atm with the plants trained to trellises i made with bamboo and wire (looks like a ladder) so the plants are flat facing the light like a scrog. this is my first vert attempt but it looks to me like i could get 7-8 plants around the bulb without getting too far from it. i dont see light penetration being an issue if you screen the plants or trellis them. the differences between a 600 and 100 watt bulb are 3ft vert vrs 4 ft vert of full light and also a bigger circle for the 1000. the 1000 costs 40% more to run and puts out alot more heat. you could get away with bigger plants with the 1000 esp if you dont train them. personally i like the 600 and would run 2x 600 in a figure 8 before i would consider a 1000, but thats just my opinion. 1000's do seem to have an advantage in bud density tho, altho idk if thats tru in a vert setup as well. the way i set up eath plant is getting almost 6 sq ft of good light area, vrs maybe 1.2- 1.6 sq ft in the horozontal setup i was using b4.


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## mrCRC420 (Mar 13, 2013)

Jorge C. Says to rotate the pot of your plant 1/4 turn every day; and I agree. Only rotate the plants' relative positions when they actually need it, ie. if theres a spot/corner thats too hot, windy, low-light, etc.


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## Alexander Supertramp (Mar 13, 2013)

mrCRC420 said:


> Jorge C. Says to rotate the pot of your plant 1/4 turn every day; and I agree. Only rotate the plants' relative positions when they actually need it, ie. if theres a spot/corner thats too hot, windy, low-light, etc.


Turning your pots each day will help better your yield. Not a grand amount but still an improvement. And it dosent cost a penny to turn a pot, free additional yield.
I use to do the 1/4 turn a day. But now I do a half turn at lights on. And then another half turn at the half way through lights on. Each half of the plant gets equal time directly exposed to the light each day.


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## Ou8aCracker2 (Mar 14, 2013)

If doing vert properly,you shouldn't turn your plants,at all...

When doing a donut with or without screens,one would want to veg vertical because when you veg vertical the plant kinda bends toward the light and branches will do the same.Hack off the back branches that won't get any/much light (and would steal energy from prime branches/budsites) or train them to the front of the plant where they will get more light.

Now when growing horizontal you may want to turn the plants on the outer edge of the footprint 1/4 turn a day for uniform secondary branch growth,ir even if you're growing under a vert parabolic hood (which isn't as good as bare bulb IMO...and most growers using parabolics are stil growing using a horizontal canopy rather than a vertical canopy.

If wanting to do 4'-6' + trees (actual trees) I think Heath Robinson had it right...Five bulbs total,one in each corner of a room with one in the center,hung vertical bare bulb,with four plants in the room,one on each wall (no need to turn plants but you could if you wanted to) so it would look like this:

(X= bulb,O= plant)

X O X

O X O

X O X


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## smooth88 (Mar 15, 2013)

I like heaths idea with the five bulbs but I think it could be improved. Each bulb in the corner is wasting about half it's light, yea some wiil reflect off the walls but still seems wasteful.


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## Ou8aCracker2 (Mar 16, 2013)

smooth88 said:


> I like heaths idea with the five bulbs but I think it could be improved. Each bulb in the corner is wasting about half it's light, yea some wiil reflect off the walls but still seems wasteful.


The corners kind of act as a hood/reflector if you will,seeing as everything that isn't green should be covered in reflextix,mylar,or reflective film of choice.

I believe Heath did a run with the 5x 600w HPS's with only two plants in the room...one at one end and the other at the opposite end...each plant weighed something around 72 ounces each...that's a lot of weight.I think he said something about how each plant used the equivelant of 900w...I'll try and find the thread for you.


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## Ou8aCracker2 (Mar 16, 2013)

Here you go https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=181239

He used a 12'x11' room,but only half of it.He hung 5x 600w HPS Bulbs vertical with two plants in this fashion (plants=X and lights=O)

0.....................................0 


.........x........0..........x


0......................................0



And harvested 76oz per plant...considering each plant gets about 1500-1800w of light that's a 1.18 to 1.41 GPW.

He said he vegged for 8 werks with a 400w HPS hung bare-bulb vertical between the two plants...check out the thread there's a ton of info in there and when it comes to growing vert,HR is the man...plus if you search the net for his threads he gives out plans on practically all his setups.


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## smooth88 (Mar 17, 2013)

Heath is very impressive, maybe I'll save up and buy another 600 watter and incorporate my 400 watt in the middle or something


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