# Extractions Explained



## MrEDuck (Oct 23, 2012)

So extractions are a topic that comes up on here a lot, and rather than retype the same answers and procedures over and over again I thought I'd make a single thread on the topic and try to be really thorough and save us all some time.

Now before we get into an actual procedural write up lets go over a few things. Performing the procedure discussed here on many natural products is illegal in many locations, know your local laws and please abide by them. Choosing to do otherwise is at your own risk. For those interesting in learning the technique tea leaves are great for practice as I do not know of anywhere where either tea leaves or caffeine powder are illegal. 

Please remember safety first and take two for safety before doing anything with chemicals ever. Always wear long sleeves and pants and shoes that cover the whole foot and proper lab attire when working with chemicals. Wear all appropriate personal protective equipment including but not limited to safety glasses, good gloves (in this case nitrile gloves that are at least 8mil thick are highly recommended, gauntlets are even better, check the chemical resistance of any gloves before using as sometimes they can be worse than nothing. A simple google search takes almost no time but can make a huge difference), and a proper mask or respirator if adequate ventilation is not available.

So first off what do we mean when we talk about extractions? Obviously for us it's always about getting some kind of active out of some type plant or fungus material. Generally these are done as either solvent extractions or acid base extractions. A solvent extraction involves washing or soaking the material with a solvent, typically a partially polar solvent like an alcohol, or a nonpolar solvent like ether or hexane, though water extractions are quite common, but I really hope you can handle that one by yourself, as it is literally as simple as making coffee. Examples would be making BHO or extracting cactus alkaloids and other nonpolar material to make cactus tar from a San Pedro with an alcohol. These are pretty straight forward and I'm not going to go into much detail. The variables are what kind of solvent you use, the length of time the extraction is done for and what temperature it is done at.

Acid base extractions are a way of extracting alkaloids based on their chemical properties and solubility. Alkaloids are naturally occurring compounds which contain a basic nitrogen group. Basic in this case refers to acids and bases, it means the N atom is able to accept an acidic proton. This gives alkaloids some interesting properties. The one we're most interested in here is it's solubility in various solvents. In their freebase (when the N is not protonated, or bonded to an additional hydrogen atom) form the alkaloids we're interested in are generally not water soluble, but are soluble in nonpolar solvents. The protonated form is water soluble owing to the fact that they form salts when they get protonated, for example a hydrochloride salt forms when hydrochloric acid is used on the alkaloid, the H atom binds to the N atom creating a positively charged molecule and the chloride ion binds to this because it has a negative charge. Both forms are usually soluble in alcohol because it is partially polar, but that same property makes alcohol dissolve lots of other stuff you don't really want.

Not all bases (or acids) are created equally though. And this is one of the properties that allow us to separate these alkaloids. In chemistry we measure the relative strength of acids and bases with a number called pKa. The lower the pKa the more acidic a substance is. To give you an idea of what this means a very strong acid will have a pKa of 1 or less, they will fully protonate water in solution. Compounds with higher pKa values are bad proton donors, but will be protonated pretty easily. For example mescaline has a pKa of 9.56. This means that in if you put a gram of mescaline into a solution with a pH of 9.56 50% of it would be protonated while the remaining half would remain as the freebase. Shifting by 1 point in either direction would make it 90/10, so at 8.56 90% would be protonated and 10% would remain as the freebase. Another point shifts it to 99/1. Going further doesn't really offer much benefit. When doing an extraction you want to get your pH about 2 points higher to do your extraction to get almost all of the alkaloid as freebase that you can collect with the solvent but at the same time keep the pH as low as possible to avoid forming an emulsion (a mixture of a nonpolar liquid and a polar one, like oil and vinegar in a salad dressing) that will take forever to separate.

The basic procedure is the same for all A/B extractions. First you want to put your material in an acidic solution (it only needs to be slightly acidic, a pH of <5 is generally sufficient) and extract with a nonpolar solvent to defat the solution (note, filter out your source material prior to separating, it makes it so much easier, then return it to the aqueous layer after separation each time). While this step isn't always strictly necessary it improves product purity and makes the work easier as it gets rid of many compounds that can cause the mix to emulsify at higher pH. It is essential when working with cacti. To extract you add a small amount of the nonpolar solvent (about 1/5 of the volume of the aqueous layer), and ideally you put them in a separatory funnel (a 500mL one costs like $25 and make extractions so much easier) and shake them up (invert it and turn the stopcock to vent it every 15 seconds or so) thoroughly. Then allow the mixture to separate and discard the nonpolar layer (if you have a still you can distill the NP solvent to recycle it, it's good for your wallet, the environment, and means you need to purchase solvents less frequently which can reduce risks to you). 

Now you raise the pH of your aqueous layer to the pKa + 2 of your desired substance. You should see a (usually) white precipitate form (some chems are different colors but most of the ones we're interested in are white). Now extract again with the nonpolar solvent, then separate and save the NP layer and the aqueous layer. Soak your source material (MHRB, cacti, etc) in the aqueous layer some more (you will probably need to adjust your pH), give it at least 4 hours this time, then repeat the extraction again. Now do it again but let it go overnight this time. Extract again. Repeat again giving 12 hours or more and extract, then go one more time overnight. This is a total of 5 times over the course of 2 to 3 days which is my standard general procedure. As you get familiar with your source material you may find you want to do fewer pulls or more pulls. 

Now pool your nonpolar layers and rinse them 3x with a small volume (depending on how much nonpolar solvent you have it could be anywhere between 10-50mL) of a concentrated brine solution with a pH of pKa + 2.5 (pH the water then add as much salt as it can dissolve). This pulls out any polar stuff that managed to hitch a ride and helps your purity. 

Now we're ready to crystallize. Generally this is done by adding acid to form a salt. DMT doesn't like to form stable salts, but you can use fumaric acid to salt it out, otherwise reduce the volume of your nonpolar solution by 50-75% and stick it in the freezer overnight to get it to precipitate. For other stuff there's several ways to salt it out. The best method is bubbling dry hydrogen chloride gas through it. If you are using this document as a guide you probably don't have the skills to do that though. Dry HCl is nasty stuff that you really don't want to breathe in or have it come into contact with your mucous membranes. If you've ever opened a bottle of con HCl outside a fume hood while breathing in without a respirator you'll have a little taste of what this can be like. The dry gas is much much worse. I got a tiny tiny whiff once and I hacked up some vile looking shit. It probably wouldn't have looked as bad if I wasn't a smoker, but then I wouldn't be that surprised if the tars actually protected my lungs a bit.

So since dry HCl is out let's look at some other ways. Many light organic acids will be soluble in the nonpolar solution and will react with and precipitate your alkaloid. Fumaric acid mentioned above is one of these, another readily available one is glacial acetic acid. I like hydrochloride salts. They're generally quite stable over the long term, easy, and cheap to make from readily available substances, and are commonly the salt for which doses of a given substance are listed as. To make them without dry gas put about 0.25mL of con HCl in about 5-10mL of isopropanol that's at least 91%. Anhydrous is even better. (You can dry 91% IPA by adding dry epsom salts (bake at 250F+ for at least 1 hour) to it and letting them sit for a few minutes before filtering. You want to do this 2-3x to ensure the water has been absorbed. Leave some of the epsom salts in the liquid if you're storing it for any amount of time and filter them at the time of use). Now add this slowly to your nonpolar solution and watch beautiful white crystals start crashing out of solution. Filter off the crystals, and hit the solution again to see if anything else precipitates. Repeat until no more crystals form. 

For the math lovers among you the 0.25mL of con HCl has about 3mmol of HCl, so it should precipitate ((molar mass of substance HCl/1000)*3)g of product per addition. If you're doing a larger scale extraction you can increase the amount of HCl used initially but keep it reasonably dilute (no more than maybe 1mL of HCl per 5mL IPA) to make sure it gets into the NP layer rather than forming a separate layer, shaking the solution after adding the HCl can help makes sure it all gets into contact with the product, but it's not as pretty to watch so try to get a good first crop anyway. Appreciate the beauty inherent in science.


So a step by step write up would look like this.



1. Place the substance you are extracting into an appropriately sized glass or stainless steel vessel. You want to be able to have your starting material completely submerged with an inch or so of water over it and have a few inches of room above it before the rim. You don't want any of this stuff spilling!


2. Make the water layer slightly acid. 3-5 should be just fine.


3. Put the starting material, water layer and nonpolar solvent (about 1/10-1/5 of the volume of water) in a sealable container (again glass or stainless steel just like everything else used in this tek) and shake the hell out of it. Vent it every 15 seconds or so to avoid a pressure build up. 


4. Filter the source material out and then separate the liquid layers. Discard the nonpolar layer.


5. Put the source material and the aqueous layer back together and adjust the pH of the solution to the pKa of the desired product + 2


6. Allow to stand with stirring or other mixing agitation for 10 mins. Check pH, adjust if needed, mix for another 20 minutes.


7. Place in sealable vessel with nonpolar solvent (about the same volume as was used in the defatting step) and mix thoroughly, filter the starting material and separate. The source and aqueous layer go back together, save the nonpolar layer.


8. Readjust pH of aqueous layer if needed and allow to soak for 4 hours. Extract and separate again. Again recombine the aqueous layer and the source and save the nonpolar layer.


9. Do another 4 hour run on the source, and separate again. Then repeat twice waiting 12-24 hours to ensure you get all of teh desired product out.


10. Pool nonpolar layers and rinse 3x with a small volume of concentrated brine of pH=pKa+2.5. Save the nopolar layer.


11. Crystallize as above either by salting or freezer precipitation as discussed above.


Some notes. There are many suitable solvents. Heptane works very well for DMT because while it goes into solution quite well it can also be gotten out by concentrating and freezing. Xylene and d-limonene are both quite popular for mescaline. Caffeine isn't very picky about the nonpolar solvent. In general most things aren't, but look around to see if others have found an optimal solvent. Substitutions are generally ok. Try to stick to things that have fire diamond ratings of 3 or less for flammability, 1 or less for health, and 0 for reactivity for solvents.


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## MrEDuck (Oct 23, 2012)

I hope this helps everyone. As always I'll be glad to answer anyone's questions.


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## Alembic (Oct 23, 2012)

Whoa, Duck. Very nice. I was able to follow until about the second paragraph, was distracted and got lost. Will re read another time when I can pay attention


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## chambray7 (Oct 23, 2012)

thank you educk this will be really helpful in the future 

+REP


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## MrEDuck (Oct 24, 2012)

Many thanks to Daath for the formatting and grammar editing.


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## canndo (Oct 24, 2012)

MrEDuck said:


> Many thanks to Daath for the formatting and grammar editing.



I thank him as well.


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## Daath (Oct 24, 2012)

I was bored.


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## Skuxx (Oct 24, 2012)

I gave it 5 stars 

I wish I knew as much about chemistry as you, duck... it would probably make trips a little more interesting. The more that you know what's going on in your brain and all... You can analyze more... while I'm just tripping about the universe or something... know what I mean?

sorry I can't contribute. I only know how to do basic extractions, that all 16 year old drug-curious kids have done. psilocybin, dmt, lsa, mesc, dxm.... easy stuff.

I'll be keeping up with this thread in case something new to me pops up.


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## MrEDuck (Oct 24, 2012)

You reminded of my experience on NYE '99-'00. I ate 4 black microdots and unsuccessfully tried to explain to some of my friends that they were in fact not mescaline as the dealer claimed, but LSD. Most of them got it after a little while but two were insistent. You know drug dealers are renowned for their honesty and the reliability of their information. 
Anyway I spent much of the experience visualizing complex molecular shapes.


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## Corso312 (Oct 24, 2012)

I am too baked to read this right now.....but just wanted to post to subscribe for tomorrow n read...just skimming I already see a few things I was unaware of ...good work


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## Blackhash (Oct 24, 2012)

I read it all. I always enjoy a nice long read for some reason. +rep duck.
This place wouldn't be the same without you, but it would be the same without me 
Live on.


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## MrEDuck (Oct 24, 2012)

Thank you! It's always nice to feel appreciated.


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## FOUR20 SWG (Oct 25, 2012)

Wow...

That officially answered questions I didn't even know I was supposed to ask (if that makes sense..).

Thought I was a little billy badass with a few ideas in tow, but after reading this I see I have a long way to go before i'm even ready to get started. 

Cheers on the chemistry lesson


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## MrEDuck (Oct 25, 2012)

It's really not that much. I wanted to explain why we do the steps and give a general procedure to show where you can make changes. Also I get really upset by the number of teks that don't discuss safety and often suggest downright unsafe practices (ie using a ziplock bag as a make shift sep funnel. Organic solvents and plastics are a really bad combo as a general rule). Safety has to be the top priority when working with chemicals. Lye causes horrible burns. Pretty much everything you're using in an extraction can blind you if it gets in your eyes. Best case scenario it just burns like hell and you get to spend the next hour bargaining with god whether you're a believer or not to make the pain stop. An old colleague of mine told me the story of when he was in first year organic and was cleaning some glassware and he lifted his goggles off his eyes figuring it would be safe. There was a tiny pinhole in the spray tube of a spray bottle of acetone. It shot right in his eye. His description was you know that awful feeling of the first time you get sick from alcohol and you're being sick and just pleading with the universe to make it stop and you'll never do it again. He said it was like that but crammed into a few minutes until the water from the eye wash started to make it feel a little better.
The moral of the story is ALWAYS wear your safety glasses.


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## Corso312 (Oct 25, 2012)

I got some cutting oil in my eye once from a drill press...holy shit was that scary..could not see shit for a good 3 minutes ...luckily some dude walked e to the eyewash station for a flush..but It was not pleasant and had me worried I was blind ...goggles are a must


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## MrEDuck (Oct 25, 2012)

I saw a coworker dump some concentrated aqua regia in a acid and metal waste bucket and it shot some back in her eye, and she wore these stupid little glasses that apparently somehow counted as safety glasses. Thankfully the eye wash station was right there and then we took her to the hospital. She had very mild damage because she washed it so quickly but she could have lost sight in that eye pretty quickly if she couldn't get to the wash station. Thankfully there were other people in the lab. You can have the space memorized but the combination of pain and losing sight can be really disorienting.
Edit: Thanks for sharing your story. Personal experiences are often the best warnings and safety is so important but so overlooked when OSHA isn't in the picture. I have no desire to find out what visuals are like for the blind.


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## canndo (Oct 26, 2012)

Will you also talk about the harmful effects of the vapors of certain solvents? And I trust you are feeling better than you have of late if I recall,


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## MrEDuck (Oct 26, 2012)

Yeah I'll go over it and how to keep yourself safe. 
I've been doing a bit better but still not great. It varies day to day though. But I'm at least mostly functional much of the time.


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## Drifter126 (May 22, 2013)

Duck,I hope your doin better .I'm tryin to figure out where to buy the extraction acids at or how to make them.I live in a small town and there's not a lot of places to get lab equiptment and supplies.I want to do some mescaline and I'm gonna need all the help I can get .


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## CCCmints (May 22, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> I saw a coworker dump some concentrated aqua regia in a acid and metal waste bucket and it shot some back in her eye, and she wore these stupid little glasses that apparently somehow counted as safety glasses. Thankfully the eye wash station was right there and then we took her to the hospital. She had very mild damage because she washed it so quickly but she could have lost sight in that eye pretty quickly if she couldn't get to the wash station. Thankfully there were other people in the lab. You can have the space memorized but the combination of pain and losing sight can be really disorienting.
> Edit: Thanks for sharing your story. Personal experiences are often the best warnings and safety is so important but so overlooked when OSHA isn't in the picture. I have no desire to find out what visuals are like for the blind.


hmmm, that sparks an interesting thought. i wonder how tripping is for the blind. i reckon it would be similar to vivid CEVs.


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## rory420420 (May 22, 2013)

ccc..I've wondered the same about blind and deaf individuals...drifter..ebay..and lowes or home depot..got all the solvents and glassware you will need for mescaline extraction...duck,thanks a bunch!! Had a lot of that in my little folder ikn my head,but its allways nice for refreshers and pointers!


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## mushead (May 22, 2013)

Thanks Duck! i could read about extractions all day, must've missed this.


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## Drifter126 (May 23, 2013)

Anybody got a picture of the glass funnels I'll need and Which Chemicals do the best?


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## MrEDuck (May 23, 2013)

It's a separatory funnel, you can google what it looks like. For mescaline xylene and limonene both work very well for the nonpolar then you want to wash it with something that is partially polar like anhydrous acetone or anhydrous alcohol. Bake a whole bunch of epsom salts for an hour at 350F at least to dry them out and use that to dry whatever you're using to wash.


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## Impman (Jun 24, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> It's a separatory funnel, you can google what it looks like. For mescaline xylene and limonene both work very well for the nonpolar then you want to wash it with something that is partially polar like anhydrous acetone or anhydrous alcohol. Bake a whole bunch of epsom salts for an hour at 350F at least to dry them out and use that to dry whatever you're using to wash.


nervous to order a seperatory funnel, maybe thats dumb but what can i do for a makeshift one?


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## MrEDuck (Jun 24, 2013)

A glass turkey baster works, but you can just order a sep funnel. Lab equipment purchases of less than $100 aren't recorded.


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## justlearning73 (Jun 24, 2013)

Mr Duck you seem to know what you are talking about. You put this info in an easy to read format. You explained not only the hows, but also the whys. My question for now is why isnt this stickied? But i have noticed that about this side of the site, there is not much stickied. Is there a reason for that over here? I am sure most of you know that on the grow side of things alot of good info is readily availible with out having to really search for it. Why is it not that way over here? I am interested in trying to grow some mushies. I thought well I will head to this part of the site to get a good start on the info i need. Hard to do when nothing is stickied. Sorry about going on I stoned. LOL


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## racerboy71 (Jun 24, 2013)

i've gotten methyl ethyl ketone in the eyes i few times mre, and it surely is not a pleasant experience to say the least..
i love how you stress safety, you're a good man charlie brown..

my worst experience so far wasn't with chemicals, but rather being a few inches from an u.v. light as it opened.. damn thing burned my retina and i thought i had really screwed up pretty badly.. several days of a scratchy feeling eye later and it all turned out well and taught me a valuable lesson to say the least..


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## MrEDuck (Jun 24, 2013)

If I got solvent in my eyes once I would switch to goggles. I like being able to see. I can't imagine getting a blast from a uv light though.
justlearning thanks for the kind words, I've never asked for it to be stickied and extractions can be a sore point, better not to shout about them.


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## justlearning73 (Jun 24, 2013)

Yeah I hear what you are saying. But you are putting it out there along with the safety stuff to go with it so people dont get hurt. I thought we were all adults. Shouldnt we have the info availible for those that are going to do it and then in turn do it in a safe way? Well I am new to this side of the site. Not sure what the ends and outs are yet. Personally i think when you have people that take the time to put out good info it should be readily availible. I mean it is people like you and canndo (I think might be wrong) and all the other more experienced people that take the time to gather the info and type it all out that make RIU so great. Helps people like me to become better growers.


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## racerboy71 (Jun 24, 2013)

hey mre, i have a question for you that may seem a bit silly for you, but it's something i've wondered about often and after a google search, i'm still scratching my head as they used terms to describe it that are still over my head and you have a way of not doing so to a much greater point..
here goes.. would you mind describing the difference between polar and non polar solvents to me please in terms that i can grasp? like i said, just tried finding out for myself, but didn't really help all that much..


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## justlearning73 (Jun 24, 2013)

Thanks who ever stickied this.


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## MrEDuck (Jun 24, 2013)

I'm guessing it was Daath, thanks whoever did 
Racer polarity is talking about the type of bonds in a molecule. Atoms of given types have different levels they attract electrons which we call electronegativity. The lower the electronegativity the more readily the atom gives up an electron, the higher the more readily it grabs them. The alkali metals have the lowest electronegativity decreasing with increasing atomic mass (the additional layers of electrons between the nucleus and the valance electrons decreases the attractive force), the N, O, and F are the most electronegative elements. When there is a large difference between the electronegativity of two elements combining to form a compound the normal result is an ionic compound. When a covalent bond is formed between two elements of dissimilar electronegativity the result is a polar bond. You don't have the formally charged particles found in ionic compounds, but you aren't neutral the way nonpolar covalent bonds are. Because a hydrogen ion would be a lone proton they can't exist in normal circumstances we can survive in. Because of this when hydrogen forms compounds with extremely electronegative or electropositive elements they have to be polar. The most familiar example of this is water, where the electron density around the hydrogen is so reduced that it bears a partial positive charge while the oxygen bears a partial negative charge, these cause individual water molecules to be very attracted to each other. Polar compounds dissolve best in polar solvents and nonpolar substances in nonpolar solvents. Nonpolar solvents are things that have no polar bonds or very few compared to a large number of nonpolar ones. Examples would be butane, toluene, and ether. Polar solvents have polar bonds and are broken into two types, protic meaning having a polar bond to a hydrogen like in water or an alcohol, and aprotic which lacks a polar bond with a hydrogen. Examples are things like acetone and other ketones. 
I'll go into more detail when I'm not on m phone.


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## racerboy71 (Jun 24, 2013)

thanks mre, i'll have to read that over a good couple of times to grasp it a bit better, but it makes much more sense than what i was getting via the wiki page google took me to..
thanks for your time and dumbing it down enough for me..


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## ineverveg (Jun 24, 2013)

racerboy71 said:


> thanks mre, i'll have to read that over a good couple of times to grasp it a bit better, but it makes much more sense than what i was getting via the wiki page google took me to..
> thanks for your time and dumbing it down enough for me..


I feel you bro,i have tried a few times now and kept fucking it up , for most of the online info you have to be walter white to understand the twat,as with green i like to know what im smoking so i gotta nail it coz i dont know whats in the freebase i get on the net, but fuck me its strong.
Ill be happy if one day my dumbass will crack the code so i can make my own strong shit , maybe the aliens will help me lol !


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## MrEDuck (Jun 27, 2013)

I just answered a question about cold water extraction of opioids from opioid/acetaminophen combinations for the billionth time. I'm putting it in here since it's a sticky and maybe it will get read. I can't edit the original post, if a mod still can and could even just put a link to this post and a note in the OP that would be great. 
Here's the process, if you can make coffee you can do this.
1) Crush the pills. I use a little pill crusher that's $5 at any pharmacy.
2) Add 1-2mL/pill of ice cold water, make sure you use a known quantity of water so you can figure out dosage if you're doing multiple doses in one shot.
3) Stir vigorously until the material is all wet and evenly dispersed.
4) Filter. I find a small funnel with a coffee filter works very well and costs almost nothing.
It's really really simple and your liver will thank you by not saying fuck you and walking out on the job one day.


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## racerboy71 (Jun 27, 2013)

hey mre, how about a quick tut for washes if you will please and thank you sir..


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## MrEDuck (Jun 27, 2013)

Not really much to explain with an acetone wash. For MDMA I'd use about 15-20mL/g of cold _*anhydrous*_ acetone or MEK. Stir up the product and tehn filter it, it should be much cleaner. I've seen GC results showing mid 90s for purity by the normal way or low 80s by the silly Dutch way. I prefer recrystallization myself. 50mL of acetone will dissolve a gram of MDMA when it's boiling. Slowly allow it to cool and collect the crystals by filtration and then let them dry to a constant weight, preferably in a desiccator. I would start with less MEK owing to it's much higher boiling point, but I don't recall the solubility offhand.
To make solvent anhydrous you can bake epsom salts in the oven (I do at least an hour at 400F, you'll see a change in the appearance when it's anhydrous vs some hydrate) then quickly crush them and add a lot them (I like to use about 1/4 of the volume of solvent) and shake thoroughly and decant the solvent. For polar solvents that form an azeotrope with water like light alcohols you'll probably want to do this 3 times, for polar solvents that don't like acetone you'll want to do it twice. If you really need to be certain that your nonpolar solvent is anhydrous once will probably do it, but that's not a common need at all. If you need to store an anhydrous solvent leave some of the anhydrous epsom salts in with it and really seal the bottle with something like electrical tape.


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## Bublonichronic (Jun 28, 2013)

Thanks for the write up duck, I'm gonna have to read It a couple times aswell..sorry if u answers this already, but iv Been wondering if u can extract pure CBD with a AB extract?


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## MrEDuck (Jun 28, 2013)

Cannabinoids lack a site that can be protonated so an A/B extraction would be pretty useless. To get pure CBD or THC you would need to do an extraction and then use chromatography to separate the extracts.


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## ineverveg (Jun 29, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> Cannabinoids lack a site that can be protonated so an A/B extraction would be pretty useless. To get pure CBD or THC you would need to do an extraction and then use chromatography to separate the extracts.


i wish i was your brother! i would just ask you everthing i needed to know about anything ,keep up the good work ,the guidance of your teachings and others like you on these forums is priceless!


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## Situation420 (Jun 29, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> So extractions are a topic that comes up on here a lot, and rather than retype the same answers and procedures over and over again I thought I'd make a single thread on the topic and try to be really thorough and save us all some time.


Before I read all this can you write an abstract and include what you are trying to produce. I'm not sure if I want to use up all my brain cells for the night yet by reading this whole thing.


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## MrEDuck (Jun 29, 2013)

Abstract
A discussion on the general methodology of extracting materials from living samples with particular focus on the extraction of psychoactive drugs from various plant matter by nonchemists. Included is a good deal of safety information and some discussion on the reasons extractions work. And now an abstract because the subject and introduction weren't enough.


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## Impman (Jun 30, 2013)

I read this stuff so much but I just cant pull the trigger and try a mescaline extraction. Im gonna have to settle for just a San Pedro Tea again for the Fourth of July. I wish someone would make a video on mescaline extraction using homemade chemistry equipment and stuff ou can get from Lowes. I need a visual learning experience. Shit, I wish could get Mr. E Duck to come over for some lessons on mescaline extraction, maybe in a better more trusting world.,, I will have to wait for Fall so I can use my garage as a extraction lab... too hot now.


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## MrEDuck (Oct 3, 2013)

Cafjrl said:


> As always I'll be glad to answer anyone's questions.​


Can I help you?


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## Mushroom Boulder (Nov 21, 2013)

Which solvents would you recommend for psilocybin?


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## MrEDuck (Nov 21, 2013)

It seems like all psllo extraction teks are doomed to have some loss. I have a friend who makes an ethanolic tincture for cluster headaches but never bothers trying to concentrate it.


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## GreenSummit (Dec 17, 2013)

hey duck is there any consensus on the "best" way to extract a. confusa? im doing both ab and stb right now and i havent quite finished yet, just curious though.


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## MrEDuck (Dec 17, 2013)

I haven't run anythign with it. I've seen reports of success with both A/B and STB. I'm curious to see your results.


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## GreenSummit (Dec 17, 2013)

i will update eventually - im running 200g batches. i used citric acid instead of acetic in my ab because i had a lot on hand from canning stuff. my non polar in that one is completely clear, no yellow at all which was a little surprising to me, i put the naptha in when it was still warm from the lye and after it cooled there were already crystals in my nonpolar layer- so it looks good so far.

in my stb batches the nonpolar layer is cloudy yellow, i expected the yellow but not cloudiness. like i said though i havent combined all my pulls so we'll see how it all turns out.


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## MrEDuck (Dec 18, 2013)

Completely clear sounds like a good sign! I'd use the citrate over the acetate anyway as its a somewhat stronger acid.
Thanks for sharing your results with the community!


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## Mad Hamish (Mar 3, 2014)

Standing Ovation Mr Duck! Goodbye emulsions... Excellent info Sir.


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## Mad Hamish (Mar 3, 2014)

Situation420 said:


> Before I read all this can you write an abstract and include what you are trying to produce. I'm not sure if I want to use up all my brain cells for the night yet by reading this whole thing.


Oh hell yeah sure! Of course he will be delighted to go typing another paragraph or two because you are actually lazy enough to not want to read. I cannot believe I read this. Yup, save them precious brain cells you are not using for in case you need them in future!


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## canndo (Mar 3, 2014)

Mushroom Boulder said:


> Which solvents would you recommend for psilocybin?


I have never found a home method of extraction that yields a solid let alone anything more pure. High test isopropyl or methanol will give you a very potent yellow gum, defatting seems only to complicate matters with no better results. I have not kept up with current ideas though, there very well may be a breakthrough .


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## Mad Hamish (Mar 6, 2014)

canndo said:


> I have never found a home method of extraction that yields a solid let alone anything more pure. High test isopropyl or methanol will give you a very potent yellow gum, defatting seems only to complicate matters with no better results. I have not kept up with current ideas though, there very well may be a breakthrough .


Down here in S.A you can buy psilocybin drops. Nasty yellow liquid. Two drops feel like a gram of cubes, four is getting closer to a propa dose. 6 Will see you right. Vile taste seriously. Blegh. I would rather just eat a handful of shrooms...


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## st0wandgrow (Mar 6, 2014)

Holy shit Duck! Very impressive .... even though you lost me after the first paragraph. You may as well have typed that out in Japanese.

Canadian public schools.


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## racerboy71 (Mar 6, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Holy shit Duck! Very impressive .... even though you lost me after the first paragraph. You may as well have typed that out in Japanese.
> 
> Canadian public schools.


 lol, i went to american public schools and basically feel the same as you.. i do understand a little bit of it, a very little bit, but to be fair to both american and canadian public schools, mreduck is one smart cookie regardless of one's schooling..


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## st0wandgrow (Mar 6, 2014)

racerboy71 said:


> lol, i went to american public schools and basically feel the same as you.. i do understand a little bit of it, a very little bit, but to be fair to both american and canadian public schools, mreduck is one smart cookie regardless of one's schooling..


It's genetic. I really believe people are born with a certain capacity for things. Some people are great in school, some people are good with their hands, some people are very artistic, some athletic, etc. I couldn't hold Mr Ducks jock when it comes to science, or draw a stick-man to save my life ...... but give me a hockey stick and a puck and I'll dazzle you. lol


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## racerboy71 (Mar 6, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> It's genetic. I really believe people are born with a certain capacity for things. Some people are great in school, some people are good with their hands, some people are very artistic, some athletic, etc. I couldn't hold Mr Ducks jock when it comes to science, or draw a stick-man to save my life ...... but give me a hockey stick and a puck and I'll dazzle you. lol


 completely agree st0w.. the only problem i have is that at 42, i'm still looking for what i'm good at in this world, i'm about to give up hope here pretty soon..


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## st0wandgrow (Mar 6, 2014)

racerboy71 said:


> completely agree st0w.. the only problem i have is that at 42, i'm still looking for what i'm good at in this world, i'm about to give up hope here pretty soon..


And at 39 my skill is completely useless to me now. I may as well be talented at basket weaving.

Racer, I think it's less about being great at something, and more about enjoying what it is you're doing. I'm not the worlds best weed farmer, but I enjoy the shit out of it so that's my thing. I'm sure you can say the same. Besides, you're a heck of a nice guy and in my book that's every bit as impressive as any talent.


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## racerboy71 (Mar 6, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> And at 39 my skill is completely useless to me now. I may as well be talented at basket weaving.
> 
> Racer, I think it's less about being great at something, and more about enjoying what it is you're doing. I'm not the worlds best weed farmer, but I enjoy the shit out of it so that's my thing. I'm sure you can say the same. Besides, you're a heck of a nice guy and in my book that's every bit as impressive as any talent.


 aww shucks, thanks stow.. i do have hobbies, and i'm very into knowing every smallest detail about what ever it is that interests me, be it cars or racing or stock piling genetics, what ever i'm into i always go way over the top, so i always have that..


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## Mad Hamish (Mar 7, 2014)

Yes. We must find the root of all evil and extract its essence. I'll smoke it. Bring it on.


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## indicat33 (Apr 8, 2014)

Wow mr.Educk, you know your stuff ! So if I acidify the water with orange juice, will this help extract the alkaloids? I'm talking a much simpler then A/B method, just boiling in acidified aqueous solution for 6 hrs. then straining, then cooking down on low heat until I am left with a "paste". Going to try some soon and report back with the results _~


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## MrEDuck (Apr 8, 2014)

Using slightly acidic solution should help speed it up. Let us know how it goes.


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## Bublonichronic (Jun 13, 2014)

Stupid idea removed


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## MrEDuck (Jun 13, 2014)

That's not gonna work. You wouldn't want pure THC anyway. It's far less enjoyable that a full spectrum extract.


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## Mad Hamish (Jun 15, 2014)

MrEDuck said:


> That's not gonna work. You wouldn't want pure THC anyway. It's far less enjoyable that a full spectrum extract.


Mates of mine got some pure THC from some crazy club promoter. Said it was a terrible experience. WAY high, but not in a nice way. Sounded awful.


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## MrEDuck (Jun 15, 2014)

Yeah those other cannabinoids are really important to a good time.


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## canndo (Jun 17, 2014)

let us suppose one could no longer obtain ether and one wanted to disolve cocaine base, would toluene work?


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## MrEDuck (Jun 17, 2014)

It should work just fine.
How are you planning on salting it? Dry gas or a solution of HCl in IPA?


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## canndo (Jun 17, 2014)

hcl acetone, I had hoped it would work as well in toluene?


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## MrEDuck (Jun 17, 2014)

It should. The toluene residue will take a little longer to evaporate than ether but that shouldbe the only major difference. An hour in an oven at 105C will dry it completely and shouldn't damage the product.


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## atidd11 (Jun 17, 2014)

Please do not smoke cocaine sir


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## canndo (Jun 17, 2014)

atidd11 said:


> Please do not smoke cocaine sir


I do not intend to


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## MrEDuck (Jun 17, 2014)

Note where there was mention made of salting it out.


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## atidd11 (Jun 17, 2014)

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-317605.html

Just thought this should be passed around.. most people hcl it to smoke it? Wat else wud so and so do with it??


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## canndo (Jun 18, 2014)

most base it to smoke it. There is no grace in base.


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## MrEDuck (Jun 18, 2014)

Salts have much higher boiling points and are not suited to smoking.


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## Mew4 (Sep 27, 2014)

VERY good post. I think this is a great post that will help alot of people understand the basics of organic chemistry. Extraction is used in alot of situations, even by nonchemists. Lets say you have some Weed and you want to extract some hash-oil, youll need to know this stuff. Youll need to know what kind of solvent youll need, what kind of solvent will dissolve hash oil? Youll need a non-polar like butane or something else. Lets say you have meth or sudafed pills you want to extract, youll need to know what substance these things dissolve in and how to go about it. Excellent writeup, i hope to see more chemistry posts on this site  .


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## rory420420 (Sep 28, 2014)

ducks will fly...


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## Dr Sticky (Jan 5, 2015)

Organic chem at its best! Nice writeup! Must been in the lab at sum point. Watch the flammables almos set lab on fire underneath the hood with the ethy alch, cant see flame. Better living thru chemistry, props Brother!!!


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## MrEDuck (Jan 6, 2015)

Welcome Dr Sticky.


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## Dr Sticky (Jan 6, 2015)

Thanx Brother, I wanna try a diethyl ether extraction, distilled by myself twice to get pure, then hit in sep funnel with a normal saline break to get it good and clean. Will keep yall posted. Thanks again


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## MrEDuck (Jan 6, 2015)

Et2O extraction of what? If you're looking for deems heptane is the optimal solvent unless you want to pull other stuff into the product.


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## Dr Sticky (Jan 6, 2015)

Not lookin for deems, Lookin for all cannaboids, THC, CBD an tha rest. Thanx for the info. Heptane bp at 208-209 F, ether at 95, after the break in sep funnel, should, after liq-liq in the sep, when want to evap jus wonderin if lower time or temp for evap will yield higher quality material, less solvent left? I kno bout butane and all that, but have the ether jus wonderin if will work effectively. Thanx Bro like ur knowledge!


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## Bublonichronic (Jan 6, 2015)

if your not lookin for deems, your sight is.....i dunno somthing about you should be lookn for deems


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## Dr Sticky (Jan 6, 2015)

My sight is what? Not looking for N,N-Dimethyltryptamine. Hmm basic organic 201, like dissolves like, correct? THC disolves well in ether, CBD dissolves well in ether, all other cannaboids dissolve well in ether, easy evap, hmm, end up with nice oil, Guess after 7 years in college, dont know the science. Only time will tell, My sight? Got the bifocals on.


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## Bublonichronic (Jan 6, 2015)

I was talkin about your third eye brah, bifocals don't do much for the....fuck I lost it again


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## Dr Sticky (Jan 6, 2015)

LMAO, Thanxs for the input Brother, always luv the input!


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## Bublonichronic (Jan 6, 2015)

I would think chromatography is what your lookin for?, but I'm no scientist....


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## Dr Sticky (Jan 6, 2015)

Maybe need trifocals, (as he bogarts the B) keep up the good chemistry Bro. Gas chomatography?


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## Dr Sticky (Jan 6, 2015)

Jus a lil? green gas enters lungs, and things go askew


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## Dr Sticky (Jan 6, 2015)

Better livin thru ORGANIC chem, we are all profs at heart


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## Bublonichronic (Jan 6, 2015)

Any minute now duck....


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## Dr Sticky (Jan 6, 2015)

OK. guess dont know crap, good luck Brothers, thanx for the info. Just lookin for a lil input from anybody with lil experience with what I wanted to do.Nobodies done it, thats cool. Will try, done plenty extractions in lab, just not with the MJ. Jus wonderin.


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## MrEDuck (Jan 6, 2015)

Ether will work just fine. You wont need to do a liquid liquid, soak the flowers and strain then evaporate. Just remember to be careful with ether. It's safe than butane but thats more a comment on how easy it is to blow yourself up with butane.


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## Dr Sticky (Jan 6, 2015)

Thanx Brother, know the drawbacks. Appreciate it.


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## mr sunshine (Jun 26, 2015)

Great thread...


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## DaSprout (Jun 27, 2015)

mr sunshine said:


> Great thread...


Yeah. For good luck. Ask the duck.

Qwuakers.


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## Hydrotech364 (Jun 30, 2015)

Check Her out, 30 ft tall....She's old and fat too...


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## iHearAll (Aug 20, 2015)

I did an lsa extract using acetone, naphtha, and toluene with ctiric acid and ammonia. The result was a pure white crystalhat I dissolved into ethanol and tartaric acid. Not my procedure. LSA is cool because if purified correctly I can eat hundreds of hbwr and not feel nauseous.


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## Veek da Freak (Aug 27, 2015)

Why not just make Blue Honey?


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Sep 8, 2015)

Hydrotech364 said:


> View attachment 3458807 Check Her out, 30 ft tall....She's old and fat too...


Is that what I think it is? 

If so, by all means I've been mimosa-fied!


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## racerboy71 (Sep 8, 2015)

ndangerspecimen101 said:


> Is that what I think it is?
> 
> If so, by all means I've been mimosa-fied!


 nice to see you around ndangers


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Sep 8, 2015)

Greetings RB!

I'm unsure how I arrived here at the doorstep of RIU.

It must of been all the Sandoz I eat 2 hrs ago. 

JK!

PS- This place feels foreign, almost creepy, without my whimsical presence. 

-Ndangerspecimen101


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## rob333 (Sep 9, 2015)

been doing some opium exstractions any insight on what use no do make it better hit me up but i think i have it pretty down pat i use vinegar and a few other things comes out smelling and looking like black tar which smokes up very well


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## MrEDuck (Sep 9, 2015)

A rare sighting of an ndangaspecimen!


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## 420producer (Apr 24, 2017)

bubblegum OG distilled ST8 FIRE


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## Cubes15128 (Nov 15, 2017)

Anyone know how to get a pure psilocybin extract From fresh or dried mushies? Did a bit of reading on a couple teks but they aren't pure extracts.


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## BigMck (Feb 4, 2018)

Started a iso extract after soaking for 24-48 hrs filter off through coffee filter then added sodium carbonate, almost instantly the color changed and a residue began to fall to the bottom of the jar. Again filtered and collected residue once dried was a tan colored powder gave powder to friend about half gram feedback was some effect physically no visuals. Done an a/b on iso/sodium solution and now have green crystals, I'm thinking this is the sodium? What can I use to wash the crystals? Any feedback on what I've done good or bad most welcomeb


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## BigMck (Feb 6, 2018)

Anybody?


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## Rosetta Stoned Co (Dec 19, 2018)

Very intresting thread , im commenting here so i dont lost it lol


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## MY OWN DANK (Jan 6, 2020)

BigMck said:


> View attachment 4084119 View attachment 4084118 Started a iso extract after soaking for 24-48 hrs filter off through coffee filter then added sodium carbonate, almost instantly the color changed and a residue began to fall to the bottom of the jar. Again filtered and collected residue once dried was a tan colored powder gave powder to friend about half gram feedback was some effect physically no visuals. Done an a/b on iso/sodium solution and now have green crystals, I'm thinking this is the sodium? What can I use to wash the crystals? Any feedback on what I've done good or bad most welcomeView attachment 4084118b


Bestine...you can do a recrystalization...warm the Bestine drop in dirty DMT itll dissolve...only use a very small amount of solvent...re freeze process for clean xtals


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## MY OWN DANK (Jan 6, 2020)

What's ur opinion of the Gordotek Duck?...here's what I pull from it


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## coxnox (Apr 24, 2022)

ATB extract:


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