# L.E.D. grow lights?



## fanatic (May 20, 2008)

Hello,
Anybody ever tried this?, sound too good to be true....

LED Grow Lights - LightBlaze 400


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## Al B. Fuct (May 20, 2008)

my response, cross posted from a reply to your same question, asked in the Get A Harvest Every 2 Weeks thread.



fanatic said:


> al, found something new that looks VERY interesting, the new LED lights.... what do you think? is it too good to be true?
> 
> LED Grow Lights - LightBlaze 400





Al B. Fuct said:


> Absolute crap. Total bullshit. Ought to be illegal to try to sell a handful of LEDs as a replacement for a 400HPS. There's so much wrong with these that I'm not even going to start on the list. There's a reason that these lamps don't have a lumen rating. If they did, you'd find they put out about 10% of the intensity of a CFL and about 0.25% of the intensity of a 400HPS (based on the very brightest LEDs made, the Philips Luxeon line, which make 140 lumens [and incidentally, the lamp you cite does NOT use Philips Luxeons] CFLs at about 1500 lumens and a 400HPS at 55,000 lumens).
> 
> Remember that lumens from multiple light sources don't 'add.' A pair of 140 lumen LEDs lighting the same area will apply 140 lumens to the area, not 280. Same goes for any multiple light sources. Putting dim lights next to dim lights does not give you brighter light- it gives you more sources of dim light over a certain area. If this multiple LED lamp used Luxeons, its luminous output would still not exceed the lumen rating of a single Luxeon LED.
> 
> ...


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## Dopalicious (May 20, 2008)

fanatic said:


> sound too good to be true....


The sound you hear is your bullshit detector going off -- listen to it.


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## smartbadguy (May 20, 2008)

there kind of good for veg. and seach out "led vs" at youtube.com


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## Al B. Fuct (May 21, 2008)

They're not 'kind of good for veg.' 

Plants vegged with insufficient light intensity will become spindly, with thin stems and long distances between nodes. If you want spindly plants, go get some LEDs. 

CFLs will do better- and that's not saying much.


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## smartbadguy (May 21, 2008)

thanks for the info


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## nickfury510 (May 21, 2008)

yeah.leds suck...i tried em and got rid of them about half way through veg.....pllus ..that set up looks complrtley inneficient...


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## jointluver (May 21, 2008)

um.. no, and i dont plan on trying. 600 dollars for that??? lol you must be joking..


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## ledgrow (May 31, 2008)

Look man, I don't know who you are or where you get your information (its certainly not based on science), but I just couldn't take the complete inaccuracy of your post so I decided to make an account so I could respond.



Al B. Fuct said:


> _Absolute crap. Total bullshit. Ought to be illegal to try to sell a handful of LEDs as a replacement for a 400HPS. There's so much wrong with these that I'm not even going to start on the list._


You need to calm down man. I don't know if you just had a bad experience with led growing or what but saying "absolute crap" and "bullshit" just proves you dont know what your talking about. Furthermore, it should be illegal for you to post all that completely bogus information and pretend like its truth.

_



There's a reason that these lamps don't have a lumen rating. If they did, you'd find they put out about 10% of the intensity of a CFL and about 0.25% of the intensity of a 400HPS (based on the very brightest LEDs made, the Philips Luxeon line, which make 140 lumens [and incidentally, the lamp you cite does NOT use Philips Luxeons] CFLs at about 1500 lumens and a 400HPS at 55,000 lumens). 

Click to expand...

_Again, you have no clue what you're talking about. There is a very good reason why led grow lights dont have a lumens rating - its because lumens is a measurement based around YELLOW-WAVELENGTH light. Did you even read the FAQ on that superled page? Or maybe try wikipedia:
Lumen (unit) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You cant measure an led grow light in lumens because led grow lights are tailored to the wavelengths *plants* are most sensitive to. An led grow light could have a MUCH LOWER lumens rating than another light but grow infinitely BETTER. Obviously LED lights will have lower "lumen" ratings, but using lumens as a measurement for growing purposes is completely worthless!

Look at this chart of plant Chlorophyll absorption:
Image:Chlorophyll ab spectra.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now look at the graph of the lumen unit measurement:
Luminous flux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The luminous flux accounts for the sensitivity of the eye by weighting the power at each wavelength with the luminosity function, which represents the eye's response to different wavelengths." In other words, lumens are good in measuring light for humans but completely irrelevant in measuring light for plants.
Make any sense?_




Remember that lumens from multiple light sources don't 'add.' A pair of 140 lumen LEDs lighting the same area will apply 140 lumens to the area, not 280. Same goes for any multiple light sources.

Click to expand...

_uhhh, where in gods name did you get such a patently WRONG idea and become so certain it was true?
I hate to have to explain such a common-sense concept... but adding two 15 lumen lights together pointed in the same direction IS roughly equivalent to a 30 lumen light.

_



Putting dim lights next to dim lights does not give you brighter light- it gives you more sources of dim light over a certain area.

Click to expand...

_Eh? What in the hell are you talking about man? This is completely wrong.
Try staring at a flashlight for a few seconds. Now get 5 of the same flashlights, tie them real close together and stare into them. Do your eyes hurt more? Well they shouldnt! Light output shouldn't be any different from one flashlight! Right?!?

Its a simple concept. Light = energy. More sources of light = more energy._




If this multiple LED lamp used Luxeons, its luminous output would still not exceed the lumen rating of a single Luxeon LED.

Click to expand...

_If you have ever measured light you would know this is just simply not true. Adding more leds WILL increase the overall lumen output. (Ignoring the fact that using lumens to measure growlights is just stupid to begin with.)_




The short answer is 'yes- too good to be true.' LEDs are *very expensive *toys- and you won't grow any dope with them. Anyone who thinks they will grow dope is a fool. You'd be better off trying to grow with candlelight- at least you'd get some CO2...

Click to expand...

_Ahh yes the moment of truth. Anybody who thinks they will grow dope is a FOOL, you say? You should really watch what you say at the cost of looking very very stupid.

The following pictures are of the Lowryder2 strand grown from seeds using an ebb & flow system w/ canna nutrients on a 16hr light cycle all the way through. This was done using _*only the LightBlaze 400*_ which happens to be the light you are bashing in this thread.

Shes a baby->






Getting bigger, looking healthy->






Yep, 100% LED grown. VERY happy with the lightblaze 400 from LED Grow Lights - Plant Grow Lights ->






And heres a closeup ->





So what were you saying there about being a fool?_




I'm rarely this unequivocal on matters asked of me, but I'm a bit sick of both the idiots selling this garbage and the nongs on cannabis boards trying to convince others that they actually will work in the manner advertised. They don't.

Click to expand...

_Stop acting like you are so sure of yourself. I had no troubles growing my MJ plant and people who see it are so thrilled they have been convinced to buy an LED unit themselves. There are certainly a lot of crappy led grow lights which are scams, _but that doesn't mean the entire technology is flawed!

_ NASA is successfully using leds to grow plants in space (try googling it), maybe you could enlighten them with what you know and convince them they are wrong._




LEDs have a future in lighting- whether that will include lights which can grow cannabis at some time in the distant future or not remains to be seen, but the simple fact is that right now, there's no such thing as an LED light that will grow cannabis successfully.

Click to expand...

_Unless you want to come back and tell me my pictures are photoshopped, i suggest you stop touting your incorrect assumptions._




Anyone taking your money for such items is a thief, plain and simple. Consider yourself warned. If you buy LEDs to grow dope, you'll get some interesting looking lights but no dope. 

If you want to grow buds, select the most powerful single HPS you can use in your space and still control temps below 26C. Cooltubes make this deadset easy.

Click to expand...

_You can talk shit on LEDs all you want, but my results are not isolated. There are others having just as much success as me and eventually you are going to look more stupid than you do already. peace.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 1, 2008)

how many weeks into flowering are you.....


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## Dopalicious (Jun 1, 2008)

ledgrow said:


> uhhh, where in gods name did you get such a patently WRONG idea and become so certain it was true?
> I hate to have to explain such a common-sense concept... but adding two 15 lumen lights together pointed in the same direction IS roughly equivalent to a 30 lumen light.
> 
> Eh? What in the hell are you talking about man? This is completely wrong.
> ...


Here's his proof:

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/74888-1550-watts-cfl-s-2.html


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## 40acres (Jun 1, 2008)

is this picture your proof of something? 





How much was that contraption? 600? And that plant isnt the dankest by any means. Nasa uses led's because they are hard to break, and easy to fix. Not because they are the best. If they were really as good as you are saying,l everyone would have them. 
I see this is your first and only post. Do you sell them, or did you get stuck with too many and cant get rid of them on ebay now, or are you trying to make yourself feel better for believing a con or what?


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## wackymack (Jun 1, 2008)

such a waste of money for that,when 600 can get u 2 1000k convesion kits that will blow that shit out of the water.deff dissing that led as far as im concered it makes me


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## nickfury510 (Jun 1, 2008)

thats what im saying....the dude put up some pathetic growth pics to try and back up his point...


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## MrPresident (Jun 1, 2008)

just putting in my two cents. i have an arjan's haze 2 under LED UFO and its incredible compared to the ones under my hortilux. whenever i want to give an individual a dark green growth spurt i put it under the ufo. not only that but i am using 87watts instead of 600watts. it was 600 bux. I am happy i got it. also, room temps in the LED room are about 10degrees cooler with identical airflow.

I think they are like DVD players when they first came out. overpriced and a new technology not quite figured out yet.


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## ledgrow (Jun 1, 2008)

nickfury510 said:


> how many weeks into flowering are you.....


2 1/2 weeks


dopealicious said:


> Here's his proof:
> 
> 1550 watts of cfl s


Thats proof of an idiot who doesnt know how to correctly measure a light. If you guys on this board honestly think that 1 lumen + 1 lumen != 2 lumens you are headed nowhere fast.



40acres said:


> How much was that contraption? 600? And that plant isnt the dankest by any means. Nasa uses led's because they are hard to break, and easy to fix. Not because they are the best. If they were really as good as you are saying,l everyone would have them.
> I see this is your first and only post. Do you sell them, or did you get stuck with too many and cant get rid of them on ebay now, or are you trying to make yourself feel better for believing a con or what?


1. yep, 600
2. not dankest is a far cry from "Anybody who thinks LEDs will grow dope is a fool"
3. Wrong. Nasa uses LEDs because they are energy efficient. Hard to break and easy to fix lol? You have no idea wtf you are talking about you just made that shit up.
4. If they were really good everyone would have them? Really? Considering that actual performing LED grow lights have only started to emerge within the last 6 months to a year? And with the type of ignorance spread on this forum i highly doubt it.
5. Yeah, and I probably wont post much more because I sure as hell would not take growing advice from what ive seen so far in this thread.



wackymack said:


> such a waste of money for that,when 600 can get u 2 1000k convesion kits that will blow that shit out of the water.deff dissing that led as far as im concered it makes me


Yeah with a 200% increase in power and heat along with costs of bulb replacements and ballasts.



> ust putting in my two cents. i have an arjan's haze 2 under LED UFO and its incredible compared to the ones under my hortilux. whenever i want to give an individual a dark green growth spurt i put it under the ufo. not only that but i am using 87watts instead of 600watts. it was 600 bux. I am happy i got it. also, room temps in the LED room are about 10degrees cooler with identical airflow.
> 
> I think they are like DVD players when they first came out. overpriced and a new technology not quite figured out yet.


the UFO was the *first* viable led grow light that actually worked. its still not that good... better lights are the lightblaze 400, procyon, and ti-smartlamp that are actually viable for full grow operations.

LED growing is just now barely becoming a real grow option. instead of fighting it with total ignorance "they dont have lumens waaahh they r a scam!!!!" do some real research first. Or dont.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 1, 2008)

so which led company do you work for......


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## ledgrow (Jun 1, 2008)

nickfury510 said:


> so which led company do you work for......


Right. Because obviously sticking up for a technology means I work for a related company. 

You also said: "if it was good, everybody would already be doing it"

Yay for common sense! Do you have any more logical fallacies you would like to contribute?


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## nickfury510 (Jun 1, 2008)

ledgrow said:


> Right. Because obviously sticking up for a technology means I work for a related company.
> 
> *You also said: "if it was good, everybody would already be doing it"*
> 
> *Yay for common sense! Do you have any more logical fallacies you would like to contribute?*


where did i say this smart guy....

ive tried leds....i wasnt happy with the growth they were given me compared to how much i paid...if you are satisfied with the growth that you have good for you...i want nice tight dense super nugs..not loose leafy fluffy nugs...and that is what leds are producing right now...not to say in a few years there wont be another light source to compete with hid...but not leds..not today


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## ledgrow (Jun 1, 2008)

nickfury510 said:


> where did i say this smart guy....


I apologize, that was 40acres.



nickfury510 said:


> ive tried leds....i wasnt happy with the growth they were given me compared to how much i paid...if you are satisfied with the growth that you have good for you...i want nice tight dense super nugs..not loose leafy fluffy nugs...and that is what leds are producing right now...not to say in a few years there wont be another light source to compete with hid...but not leds..not today


Which LED light did you try? You do understand that the difference in performance between various LED lights is extreme? Your conclusion would be the equivalent of me buying one electric car that drove too slow and concluding ALL electric cars are slow.

You should be focusing on *WHICH *led lights are performing and which aren't instead of dismissing the entire technology. But instead people are making up complete crap about how lumens matter. And as far as cost effectiveness, a single LED light eliminates a boatload of other costs and lasts for many many years and eliminates all heat for stealth growing. You guys should be paying attention because the time at which LED growing is going to become the obvious choice is rapidly approaching.


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## 40acres (Jun 1, 2008)

ledgrow said:


> 2 1/2 weeks
> 
> Thats proof of an idiot who doesnt know how to correctly measure a light. If you guys on this board honestly think that 1 lumen + 1 lumen != 2 lumens you are headed nowhere fast.
> 
> ...


i would keep believing it is everybody else and not you.check out this thread ledgrower. You will love it, it is about really good grows and you have a picture entered into it.Check out what people say about it.
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/66692-internets-worst-marijuana-grows-2.html


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## smartbadguy (Jun 2, 2008)

that guys is a faggot i just wasted time and money on that led shit


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 3, 2008)

SURE LEDS ARE GOOD if you wanna spend $600 for a light thats about as good as a 250wattMH and need one for each 1 foot plant.

He was trying to insult AlB Fuct, dude You have to be kidding me.

LEDS need more time to even become close to viable.

You are better off using Incadesents IMO at this point in time.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 3, 2008)

the guy is obviously an led salesman.....and he is a bad one at that......leds are nothing more than overpriced christmas lights.......


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## Pidgeon (Jun 3, 2008)

@ledgrow
enjoy your tiny buds.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 3, 2008)

nickfury510 said:


> the guy is obviously an led salesman.....and he is a bad one at that......leds are nothing more than overpriced christmas lights.......


LEDGROW is not a saleman, I have seen him at uk420.com, he is actually quite popular there.

He is just a strong believer in LEDS as the future of Growing.

And he may be right one day, But TODAY is not the day.


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## Dopalicious (Jun 3, 2008)

ledgrow said:


> Thats proof of an idiot who doesnt know how to correctly measure a light.


Al's lux meter does not lie. It's undeniable, empirical evidence & it eviscerates your pathetic fanboy hypothesis.

For those interested:
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/74888-1550-watts-cfl-s-2.html



Pidgeon said:


> @ledgrow
> enjoy your tiny buds.


Indeed.


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## blueberrysmoker (Jun 3, 2008)

After reading this thread im wandering if i should wait to buy leds till there is more people growing with them. theres nothing wrong with trying something new but for now i think i will use the tried and true methods for now.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 3, 2008)

You know if you read Led's posts he contridicts himself about the adding of lumens.

First he says it is possible then he says its not, then says it is.

Too bad, ignorance spreads like wildfire.

Blueberry, LEDS will never be able to mimic appropiate lights for growing.

The best single LED puts out 140 lumens, the worst single CFL puts out 1700 lumens.

And Lumens dont add so they will never be effective.


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## Pidgeon (Jun 3, 2008)

> [LEDs] will never be effective.


I wouldn't say that. I think they will be in the future, but due the lack of technology they sure as hell aren't today.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 3, 2008)

My opinion lies in the fact that a LED will never put out any where close 1000 lumens.

Even If they did, my opinon of CFLs is that they are retarded, so in theory No the wont.

Were Trying to Replicate the SUN here!!!! How do you plan to say that a Million LEDS or CFLs will ever do so, when a 1000 watt light cannot even come close to the intesity and overall ability of the sun...


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## ledgrow (Jun 3, 2008)

Either you people don't know how to read, or your reading comprehension is so low you just cant grasp anything I said and instead continue repeating the same shit mindlessly instead of being able to respond to the comments.

Let me try again, maybe somebody somewhere will understand.

*LUMENS DO NOT MATTER WHEN MEASURING GROW LIGHTS
*
*LUMENS DO NOT MATTER WHEN MEASURING GROW LIGHTS
*
*LUMENS DO NOT MATTER WHEN MEASURING GROW LIGHTS
*
*LUMENS DO NOT MATTER WHEN MEASURING GROW LIGHTS

* If you dont believe me then fucking GOOGLE IT. You are using a measurement that is WEIGHTED for the yellow-spectrum which happens to be the least efficient for plants. Lumens mean NOTHING to plants.

This site does a very good job explaining it: Light and Plants

Second, you guys look at this picture and nobody sees anything wrong?






The following are reasons why this picture is complete crap:

1. You are pointing 2 lights directly into each other's reflectors and then taking a brightness measurement from the side.... ?!?!
2. One light bulb is covering the light output from the other
3. You are trying to take an accurate measurement from 50 millimeters away from the bulb.

Here is a diagram of the correct way to measure lumen output:
Common Light Measurement Terms

Try measuring it properly by pointing both lights directly at the sensor from 1 foot away, and then come back with your "empirical evidence"

This forum is proof of what can happen when people who dont know how to follow the scientific method try and do experiments.


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## Valron (Jun 3, 2008)

you just handed the L E D grow a new weapon, some truth. soooo baked....



ledgrow said:


> Look man, I don't know who you are or where you get your information (its certainly not based on science), but I just couldn't take the complete inaccuracy of your post so I decided to make an account so I could respond.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## chuckbane (Jun 4, 2008)

cfls for veg, hps for flow.. *ALL THE WAY*


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## passtheblunt (Jun 4, 2008)

HAHA i just have to laugh at this...

im sorry Al. B fuct

but you just got royally pawned by ledgrow

aw that made my day reading that lol

just loved the way he took your arguement apart bit by bit  top notch ledgrow 

sorry, had to be said


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## chuckbane (Jun 4, 2008)

hmm... dont know if you can trust someone with LED in his name... may be slightly biased


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 4, 2008)

Par is for plants Lumens are for people. TRUE buddy but

BUT WHAT LEDGROW ISNT POINTING OUT HERE is that if you do the math on the INTENSIY of usable spectrum in a HPS light Versus the 100% amount of usable light INTENSITY FROM LEDS.

HPS STILL WINS ALOMST 3 fold against the best Single LEDS.

The HPS can just create more INTENSE usable spectrum than LEDS can even though only such a small amount of the light produced is usable from the HPS!!!!

Your right buddy not lumens, but when you try to explain to NEWBIES about WHY NOT TO BUY LEDS they need something simple to grasp so they dont fall for your bullshit PROPAGANDA.

*I have done the math and NO LED can replicate the INTENSITY OF light output than a HPS CAN!!!!

HPS CREATES MORE INTENSE 610-720nm BAND OF LIGHT.

LEDS ARENT INTENSE ENOUGH!!!
*


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## chuckbane (Jun 4, 2008)

*HPS HPS HPS HPS HPS HPS **HPS HPS HPS HPS HPS HPS **HPS HPS HPS HPS HPS HPS **HPS HPS HPS HPS HPS HPS **HPS HPS HPS HPS HPS HPS **HPS HPS HPS HPS HPS HPS **HPS HPS HPS HPS HPS HPS*


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 4, 2008)

Lumens actually can measure the intensity of a light, for example if a 1000watt HPS puts out 150,000Lumens, but the 610 - 720 nm spectrum is only X percent of the total light output you can calculate just the Lumens of the RED BAND and BLUE BAND of light.

It is until LEDS can reach this that they are to nixed as a idea for growing.


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## chuckbane (Jun 4, 2008)

i have NEVER heard anything good about led... unless it is from ppl who have spent a good coin on a led op... but they are just trying to justify what they do,, dont get trapped into their b.s. 
*DONT BUY LED... BUY HPS*


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 4, 2008)

I wrote this in a personal message to LEDGROW:

Hey Buddy,

Dont get me wrong I appluad you for your research into Led's and growing cannabis.

In fact I have followed your threads at other website forums, and read many of your diaries.

Believe me I have done my research and I have come to this conclusion: ( I would like to have a healthy debate here if you will oblige me)

It is not in the nature of a scientist to nessecarily dissmiss something even if it is proven false as future information may very well bring an idea back.

So here goes the reason I dont think LED's will ever be suitable any time soon.


While It is very easy to inderstand that the usable light coming out of a HPS is very minute and the usable light from LEDS is 100% viable.

The AMOUNT/INTENSITY of usable light from the HPS is more than the best LED LIGHTS AVAILABLE today. (sorry for the shouting/emphasis caps)

This can be figured Actually using lumens/lux/par

I will not go into the math, although I can if would like, I saved it to notepad.

But the numbers come out that there IS almost 3 times the Intensity of red and blue spectrums even though you are wasting light with the HPS in all the other spectrums.

These calculations were based on the best Luxeons and Phillips and CREE's, and I did the intial math that found this conclusion off of the intensity output of the pryocon 100

with the info being listed on Experiments with Hydroponics, Aeroponics, and LED Grow Lighting

Hit me back I would very much like to speak with you on this.


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## 40acres (Jun 4, 2008)

passtheblunt said:


> HAHA i just have to laugh at this...
> 
> im sorry Al. B fuct
> 
> ...


You apparently are ledgrow by another name, or you are a complete schmuck that has never grown before, because you apparently dont know what you are talking about.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 4, 2008)

chuckbane said:


> *i have NEVER heard anything good about led... unless it is from ppl who have spent a good coin on a led op*... but they are just trying to justify what they do,, dont get trapped into their b.s.
> *DONT BUY LED... BUY HPS*


and there it is........these people drop a bunch of money on a light system that can only produce 1 or 2 spindly plants and will defend their christmas lights untill their lips turn blue...like this ledgrow dude....he posted pics of shity growth to try and prove something about leds..but the minute he posted that pic of that pathetic looking plant he lost his argument...a picture tells a thousand words.....$600 for a light that might push out an oz....where for the same amount of money you can pic up a 600w light(that could give you close to a lb per if you know what your doing..or sometimes even if you dont)....plus an s&p td150 vent fan.....plus a canfan33 carbon scrubber.....so there it is..for the price of some shity led lights you just got yourself enough gear to have a decent closet op...what these led sheople dont seem to realize with their( it doesnt cause heat)..you still have to vent the room and clean the air....so you tell me what is the better choice...$600 for over 224g or $900 (led,ventfan and scrubber) to get 28g or so.


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## powerplant (Jun 4, 2008)

im gonna buy 4x 100 watt red LED panels... i believe it will work


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## Pidgeon (Jun 4, 2008)

powerplant said:


> im gonna buy 4x 100 watt red LED panels... i believe it will work


/sigh...It will work..but what you will have to take into consideration is the effectiveness of the money you spend on those lights. You will get small spindly plants with a small amount of budding; on the other hand you use that money to get a decent hid lighting system and watch as your plant thrive. You are not the first to think it could work and believe me you will not be the last, but you will be disappointed in your plants appearance and yield size. Show me one good grow with LEDs ( what I mean by this is, show me a plant that has yielded the same amount of bud as one that is under the same wattage of hid lighting.) Only then will you change anyones stance on LEDs (keep in mind a lot of us have tried LEDs as an experiment and have all come to the same conclusion. Coincidence? Think again.)


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## chuckbane (Jun 4, 2008)

it's hopeless


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## Pidgeon (Jun 4, 2008)

chuckbane said:


> it's hopeless


It seems like no matter how many times you tell a person, they just either don't understand or don't care. People ask for advice..but don't take it. Fuck it, I am gonna go  my non-led bud.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 4, 2008)

Hey Pidgeon,

I appreciate your contribution to this thread. There may still be these little guys who say they wanna try but, Believe that maybe there are 100's who will read our responses and choose not to buy, and go the correct direction.

Let the fallen few fall, but try to save those who have not yet fallen.


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## smartbadguy (Jun 4, 2008)

do u save money in very very long run they last for like 7 years


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 4, 2008)

SuRE but you make 1/100 of the viable produced underdeveloped piss poor thc Bud over that 7 years.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 4, 2008)

ALSO A HPS BULB AND BALLAST CAN LAST FOR 4 years!!!!


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## Pidgeon (Jun 4, 2008)

Thanks for the compliment GG.


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## powerplant (Jun 4, 2008)

thanks for your advice. 
you see our grow room is located in a place where the laws are very different from Canada or the united states. here... its not worth risking it no matter what.
you have to agree that using 2200 watts for 12 hours a day will raise suspicions.
that brings up another question.
i was told by a friend that i should set up 4 to 6 car batteries to hook up to a ballast, to light up my growroom. is that even possible?


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## powerplant (Jun 4, 2008)

by the way. we already done grown with HPS and HID lamps. but in canada. we moved to a new country and it seems like LED's are the way to go....


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## 40acres (Jun 4, 2008)

cfl's would be better


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 4, 2008)

t8 flouresencts are ideal because they are cheap and able to actually produce viable bud

You can get them anywhere.

And regardless of whatever country you are in LEDS arent gonna be good enough to make buds appropiatly.


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## blinkykush (Jun 4, 2008)

YouTube - LED Marijuana Grow NUFF SAID, check it out


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 4, 2008)

NUFF SAID, I have battled trying to explain why LEDs are currently crap.

And even in that video that guy is using a very shitty 400 watt and what the hell did the plants practically die for.

Is that his special way of growin, harvest when they die? WTF


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## smartbadguy (Jun 4, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> ALSO A HPS BULB AND BALLAST CAN LAST FOR 4 years!!!!


learn something new everyday i thought u have to change them once a year


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## ledgrow (Jun 5, 2008)

blinkykush said:


> YouTube - LED Marijuana Grow NUFF SAID, check it out


Right, because all LED grow lights are the same and if one doesn't work then they are all crap.



> im gonna buy 4x 100 watt red LED panels... i believe it will work


it wont work because plants need red and blue to develop properly



> While It is very easy to inderstand that the usable light coming out of a HPS is very minute and the usable light from LEDS is 100% viable.
> 
> The AMOUNT/INTENSITY of usable light from the HPS is more than the best LED LIGHTS AVAILABLE today. (sorry for the shouting/emphasis caps)
> 
> ...


Eh? Go ahead and post the math. You can't make absurdly broad and sweeping statements like that... it doesnt even make sense. What 2 lights are you even comparing? Even if the LED does put out slightly less usable light (and im not sure it does), its taking only 105 watts as compared to a 400watt HPS and achieving similar results. If I had a 400 watt LED light it would put out usable PAR light equivalent to a ~1200watt and far more than your 400watt HPS. You do understand that light = energy right?

I dont really care to argue with you because you are saying stuff that shows a complete lack of understanding about how light, energy, and electronics work. It would be like trying to explain algebra to somebody who doesnt know arithmetic.



> It seems like no matter how many times you tell a person, they just either don't understand or don't care. People ask for advice..but don't take it.


Wow, I sure am with you on that one. But in your case, maybe thats because you are not qualified to give advice on a topic you do not fully understand?

LEDs are growing and achieving similar and sometimes greater yields than an hps. And dont worry I will have more videos and pics to prove this soon.

You guys can be willfully ignorant if you choose, just like the old grandma technophobes who think their old methods are better than new science. Instead of being open to new concepts you just conclusively reject them because you fear change.


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## wackymack (Jun 5, 2008)

get it through ur mind,leds will not work.they do not meet the lumen output for a plant.b4 u say lumens dont matter,well they do,thats what determines if the plant will pretty much grow.higher lumen output,the more a plant will grow and yeild.enough said,just sign off and quit trying to market leds.they are only good for techno and shit.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 5, 2008)

Buddy (LED GROW) talking to you is like trying to teach arithmetic to someone who thinks there a physicist.

Step off your high horse.

I will make a Thread titled:

"MATHEMATICAL PROOF LED's ARE SHIT"

look for it.


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## wackymack (Jun 5, 2008)

i deff will fallow that thread.
there really trying to push there product


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 5, 2008)

He's not marketing nothing, he is a die hard believer that it will work.

I have seen him at other websites, standing on his soapbox, shouting the world will end if you dont believe LEDS are better than HID lighting.


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## 40acres (Jun 5, 2008)

ledgrow said:


> Right, because all LED grow lights are the same and if one doesn't work then they are all crap.
> 
> it wont work because plants need red and blue to develop properly
> 
> ...


Show us some more pics of your super fat yields with the leds. Those pics you posted earlier of all that good solid buds made me want some led's


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## blinkykush (Jun 5, 2008)

Although LED grow lights have shown promise through plant research by NASA and many universities, it is unknown whether the results are applicable to Cannabis cultivation.
Traffic lights
* Automotive lighting
* Stage lighting
* Bicycle lighting
* Electric torches (flashlights)
* Domestic lighting
* Billboard displays
* Floodlighting of buildings
* Display lighting in art galleries to achieve a low heating effect on pictures etc.
* Train lights (Now common on nearly all modern and most older MU's and Loco's in the UK)


those are the uses for LED lights that wikipedia has listed. 
growing plants isn't one of them. 

i dont think it would be like an incandescent and not work at all, actually i think it would work i'm not sure how well , compared to fluoros and HPS/MH 
not to bash led's but there is not enough data and way to much speculation to justify shelling out that amount of fundage to be a guinea pig.


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## Pidgeon (Jun 5, 2008)

> maybe thats because you are not qualified to give advice on a topic you do not fully understand?


Or maybe you are just clinging to a stupid decision and are too proud to admit you don't know what you are talking about? It is funny how you are one person saying that LEDs are better grow lights, when I have seen no evidence of it. I have even grown with a 400w led. Quit trying to convince people the world is flat, man.


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## Lozt (Jun 5, 2008)

L.E.D.'s are the future of indoor cultivation with almost no heat to deal with you dont need allot of ventilation also the enegry draw is about 13% of a typical HPS or MH. They are light weights and the bulb hours are in excess of 5 years not 6 months like typical HID's. I have read allot on L.E.D's though i havent used them my self I truely feel that they are the way of the future. There are some drawback's for instance the light is unable to be reflected and keep its intensity there for the cover a less of an area for example the LED UFO only covers a 2'x2' space with adaquate density so u would need more fixtures. The cost is pretty high this is due to the cost of production of LED's the technology has been arround for a very long time but just recently have they started to be used in things like cars, and stoplights. The problem is that u need soo many little guys if they could make them bigger they would be brighter they are currently workin on that over seas and hopefully soon they will have bigger and brighter ones soon.


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## Lozt (Jun 5, 2008)

p.s. Hightimes tested LED's VS. HIDs in a march 2008 issue the led lights produced a higher yield though it took 5 days longer to finish I dont know where u guys get your research from but you should deffinately do some befor u get on here and try to pass of your OPINION as actual FACTS. get some facts .. also the april 2008 issue had even more detail.


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## 40acres (Jun 5, 2008)

Lozt said:


> p.s. Hightimes tested LED's VS. HIDs in a march 2008 issue the led lights produced a higher yield though it took 5 days longer to finish I dont know where u guys get your research from but you should deffinately do some befor u get on here and try to pass of your OPINION as actual FACTS. get some facts .. also the april 2008 issue had even more detail.


Keep reading our high times, find out its all ads, become a real grower, and then come back and speak. Why dont you show us some pics of your beautiful buds grown by led?


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 5, 2008)

Lozt said:


> p.s. Hightimes tested LED's VS. HIDs in a march 2008 issue the led lights produced a higher yield though it took 5 days longer to finish I dont know where u guys get your research from but you should deffinately do some befor u get on here and try to pass of your OPINION as actual FACTS. get some facts .. also the april 2008 issue had even more detail.


You have to be kidding me right?


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## Pidgeon (Jun 5, 2008)

Lozt said:


> p.s. Hightimes tested LED's VS. HIDs in a march 2008 issue the led lights produced a higher yield though it took 5 days longer to finish I dont know where u guys get your research from but you should deffinately do some befor u get on here and try to pass of your OPINION as actual FACTS. get some facts .. also the april 2008 issue had even more detail.


Give us a link to this article so we can know how full of shit HT really is. Do you also believe the advertisements that claim that you can get high legally from cat-nip and oregano? Unless we get some PICTURES of high yielding bud grown by LEDs then all of this is just hearsay. Don't try to say that a grower is wrong when you yourself have absolutely no experience when it comes to growing. Otherwise you are just speculating without any hard evidence. Also when you say we have no research, does that include where I say I have grown with a 400w led? I have used LEDs to grow (and just to clarify: they were located 2-3 inches away from the plant the entire grow) and was sadly disappointed in the results. I am not the only one claiming these results. So, how about YOU do some research instead of reading a magazine and pretending to know anything about growing hydroponicly (or even growing period).


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## indes (Jun 5, 2008)

hmm, I had to get in on this one because I have a degree in Electronics Engineering... 

as far as LED output goes, yeah, of course it outputs light that'll work to grow ... 

BUT... Look at the specs on the LEDs used in your light .. (BestHongKong.com Cree, High Power LED, XLamp, XRE )

First off, Color Temperature.. 
Corelated Color Temperature (CCT) @350mA rated 80lm - 5000k Typical, 10000k Max. 

For vegging, you want something more... something around daylight? Higher in the blue wavelength.. The T-12s I use are 65000k... well more than 10000k.. this would be great for flower time though.. no? 

Next is the actual rating of Lumens.... 

Lumen Rating @ 350mA lm - 80 Typ // 100.4 Max
Lumen Rating @ 700mA lm - 136 Typ // 167. Max
Lumen Rating @ 1000mA lm - 176 Typ // 221 Max 

Notice how there is no minimum stated.. Isn't that somewhat odd.. ? I mean, with the 'intensity' knob on the side, does the light go completely off when its on its lowest setting.. ? (That knob is called a rehostat or variable resistor - it drops current) or do they not really care about minimal values.. ? In any case, thats per LED... 

The hitch here: Your lamp states on the side it only uses 1.5 AMPS of power, which, is a little over your lumen rating on its highest level.. What happens when you drive 50 LEDs with 1.5 AMPS? 

Each LED gets 1.5 AMPS / 50 LEDs, which leaves 30mA (without loss) for each LED. What kinda lumen rating is that.. ? Probably below 80 PER LED. Oh, this doesn't include losses (which you can't avoid - you don't have room temperature superconductors.) and it doesn't include the power running the fan.... 

I think efficency wise, I'd be better off to spend my money on other products, but if it works - it works.. In the end, you shouldn't see any light for the smoke if all goes well 

And those are my $0.02 from an engineering standpoint.

_Note: I'm not bashing your setup, I find it odd you get so angry at someone who may or may not know the little details behind it all... Mearly stating facts. 


Edit: There are 56 lights, not 50. Lowering my current per LED estimation. Also, for info on which LEDs are used please see LED Grow Lights - LightBlaze 400 which states "_56 *CREE* XLamp *High Power LEDs"*_ -- you can't win arguments without references and true facts unless your last name is "Bush" ..
_


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## Dopalicious (Jun 5, 2008)

Lozt said:


> Hightimes tested LED's VS. HIDs in a march 2008 issue the led lights produced a higher yield though it took 5 days longer to finish


link, or it didn't happen



Lozt said:


> the *yield* is about *0.13%* of a typical HPS or MH.


fixed it for ya


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 5, 2008)

I say fuck it, Lets all stop trying to help these people, let em grow with LEDS and think they are doing something great, it only makes our grows all that more immpressive.


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## wackymack (Jun 5, 2008)

second it.


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## Lozt (Jun 5, 2008)

Becom what u want Im just informing u of the info that I read like it or not its a fact that led light is more efficent, less stress full on plants and perfectly suitable for cannabis growth in both veg and flowering itrs not my fault u fail to read in to things befor u start takin shots at people I personally do not grow with LEDès not because they are inadequate but because the ammount of Leds needed to light a space that 4 1000 w cover would run me arround 20000 dollars its just not worth it. I hope I dont know what a real grower is supposed to be Im just a guy who has a hobby But I do have a degree in Horticaultural engineering so maybe that might qualifiy me to be a real grower. I think my friend u should concentrate less on being an internet tough guy and more on reading and doing research and maybe u wouldent find the need to be so hostile. I hope you do some reading from what ever sources u see fit and quit being such a dick .. Dick . Have a good night of watching internet porn and tryin to piss people off. Take care sweetheart


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## 40acres (Jun 5, 2008)

Lozt said:


> Becom what u want Im just informing u of the info that I read like it or not its a fact that led light is more efficent, less stress full on plants and perfectly suitable for cannabis growth in both veg and flowering itrs not my fault u fail to read in to things befor u start takin shots at people I personally do not grow with LEDès not because they are inadequate but because the ammount of Leds needed to light a space that 4 1000 w cover would run me arround 20000 dollars its just not worth it. I hope I dont know what a real grower is supposed to be Im just a guy who has a hobby But I do have a degree in Horticaultural engineering so maybe that might qualifiy me to be a real grower. I think my friend u should concentrate less on being an internet tough guy and more on reading and doing research and maybe u wouldent find the need to be so hostile. I hope you do some reading from what ever sources u see fit and quit being such a dick .. Dick . Have a good night of watching internet porn and tryin to piss people off. Take care sweetheart


*Still no pics, and the guy with a horticultural engineering degree cant quote so we dont know who he is talking to.*


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## 40acres (Jun 5, 2008)

Lozt said:


> Becom what u want Im just informing u of the info that I read like it or not its a fact that led light is more efficent, less stress full on plants and perfectly suitable for cannabis growth in both veg and flowering itrs not my fault u fail to read in to things befor u start takin shots at people I personally do not grow with LEDès not because they are inadequate but because the ammount of Leds needed to light a space *that 4 1000* w cover would run me arround 20000 dollars its just not worth it. I hope I dont know what a real grower is supposed to be Im just a guy who has a hobby But I do have a degree in Horticaultural engineering so maybe that might qualifiy me to be a real grower. I think my friend u should concentrate less on being an internet tough guy and more on reading and doing research and maybe u wouldent find the need to be so hostile. I hope you do some reading from what ever sources u see fit and quit being such a dick .. Dick . Have a good night of watching internet porn and tryin to piss people off. Take care sweetheart


Bet that up led boy. You have 4 1000w lights in your grow, but you feel the need to take up for led's. Send in just a pic of your lights, along with your screen name on a piece of paper next to them. Thats all I want, just one pic of your 4000w setup.
Quit trying to feed these people a bunch of shit and stop the madness. You go and lie to your friends, and I'll lie to mine, but lets not lie to eachother allright? We all know you dont have shit but 2 cfl's and a litbrite someone sold you after you read that they were able to grow a peachtree in a week and a half.
Maybe you should build a cube out of the litebrites,and put the tiniest plant you can find in the middle of it and see if you can get an 1/8 of an ounce.
Your a mutt. Walk on home son.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 5, 2008)

Lozt said:


> Becom what u want Im just informing u of the info that I read like it or not its a fact that led light is more efficent, less stress full on plants and perfectly suitable for cannabis growth in both veg and flowering itrs not my fault u fail to read in to things befor u start takin shots at people I personally do not grow with LEDès not because they are inadequate but because the ammount of Leds needed to light a space that 4 1000 w cover would run me arround 20000 dollars its just not worth it. I hope I dont know what a real grower is supposed to be Im just a guy who has a hobby But I do have a degree in Horticaultural engineering so maybe that might qualifiy me to be a real grower. I think my friend u should concentrate less on being an internet tough guy and more on reading and doing research and maybe u wouldent find the need to be so hostile. I hope you do some reading from what ever sources u see fit and quit being such a dick .. Dick . Have a good night of watching internet porn and tryin to piss people off. Take care sweetheart


Hes talking to me... haha

And buddy you may have passed whatever courses to get a Hort Degree.

But you sure as hell didnt pass math.

If YOU calculate THE INTENSITY OF LEDS, they dont even come close to CFL's.

YOU have to understand that intensities do not directly ADD together no matter how many leds you cram into something, yes they can create a higher reading between two sources of lights but NO MATTER HOW MANY POINTS OF LIGHT YOU HAVE the general output is the same as the one point of light for the whole fixture.

THIS IS why CFLS are crap and Flouro tubes can barely get by, and are barely adequeate for Veggin.

If you understood the basic fundamentals of light you would get that.

A HPS is a single point of light, that puts out all that red and blue.

Your Leds are tiny little points of red and blue. 

GETTING THROUGH YET.????

Comon this isnt rocket science.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 5, 2008)

holy shit..........this thread and the christianity has finally been debunked thread need to be moved to the never gonna end this argument section.........just my opinion......and yes i have used leds......i was a tool and got fooled into it.....wasted money and ended up buying another hps in the end........argue that.......


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## ledgrow (Jun 6, 2008)

nickfury510 said:


> and yes i have used leds......i was a tool and got fooled into it.....wasted money and ended up buying another hps in the end........argue that.......


Sure.
For all you people who claim to have "tried LEDs", were you using any of the following:
1. SuperLED LightBlaze 400
2. Homegrownlights Procyon 100
3. TI-SmartLamp

No? then *STFU because you DONT have experience.
*It would be like taking Advil for a headache, having the headache persist, and then claiming Vicodin doesnt work because youve "tried painkillers before and they are a scam".
Here, an illustration of my point:







If the entire world worked on these petty little anecdotes there would be no scientific breakthroughs because people like Al B. Fuct (with his poor testing methodology) and people trying weak LEDs (like the UFO and and other china-made products) continually conclude that an entire _concept_ is faulty.

If anybody here would actually take the time to research how much potential LEDs actually have in the field of growing, we wouldn't even be discussing the stupid issues going on right now. Even if my plant isnt the dankest ever grown, it isn't doing bad for a lower-yeilding Lowryder2 strain and if you people had any sort of open mind at all you would realize that this new technology is only 1 or 2 product cycles away from becoming very attractive to many growers... especially considering the 100% heatless environment for stealth growing, low energy consumption, and super long lifespan.

But instead you dismiss all evidence presented to you with complete stubborn stupidity:


wackymack said:


> they do not meet the lumen output for a plant.b4 u say lumens dont matter,well they do,thats what determines if the plant will pretty much grow


Seriously? Nobody else on the forum steps up and corrects total garbage statements like this? You think its OK for _WRONG _information to be posted and stay unchallenged? This person is saying a complete factually inaccurate statement and NOBODY seems to care, even after I have posted numerous credible links explaining the issue? What is wrong with you all? You should be ashamed of yourselves.



indes said:


> First off, Color Temperature..
> Corelated Color Temperature (CCT) @350mA rated 80lm - 5000k Typical, 10000k Max.
> 
> For vegging, you want something more... something around daylight? Higher in the blue wavelength.. The T-12s I use are 65000k... well more than 10000k.. this would be great for flower time though.. no?
> ...


I appreciate your willingness to do some research before posting.
Couple things wrong though:
1. Nobody to my knowledge is attempting to use white LEDs as your post assumes (there is no color temperature). Grow light LEDs are tailored to the specific red/blue wavelengths that plants utilize best.
2. Because LEDs are tailored to these special wavelengths, the LUMEN measurement becomes extremely irrelevant because it is a yellow-based wavelength-weighted measurement made to measure light intensity for HUMANS not PLANTS.



ganjagoddess said:


> If YOU calculate THE INTENSITY OF LEDS, they dont even come close to CFL's.
> 
> YOU have to understand that intensities do not directly ADD together no matter how many leds you cram into something, yes they can create a higher reading between two sources of lights but NO MATTER HOW MANY POINTS OF LIGHT YOU HAVE the general output is the same as the one point of light for the whole fixture.
> 
> ...


No. Its really painful to read your embarrassingly ignorant posts.

1. _" YOU have to understand that intensities do not directly ADD together no matter how many leds you cram into something, yes they can create a higher reading between two sources of lights but NO MATTER HOW MANY POINTS OF LIGHT YOU HAVE the general output is the same as the one point of light for the whole fixture."

_This is completely untrue. Let me try AGAIN to explain it. You understand that light = energy, right? Nobody is arguing that point i hope? Anything that illuminates and you have to plug in takes electricity and converts it to light. The more electricity you give it, the more light it puts out (up until the filament burns out like a fuse).

Now imagine you have 1 light that takes 100 watts and outputs 50 lumens. And now imagine you have another one just like it, both are plugged in. That means you now have 2 separate lights taking 100 watts each and outputting 50 lumens each. Now since _light is directional _you can point both these lights at the same spot and you WILL GET twice as much light (100 lumens) because they are each taking 100watts of energy, converting it to light, and outputting that energy in the same direction.

2. _"THIS IS why CFLS are crap and Flouro tubes can barely get by, and are barely adequeate for Veggin."
_No. Many CFLs may perform inadequately as grow lights because of their spectrum:
Image:Fluorescent lighting spectrum peaks labelled.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is a huge factor everybody on this thread appears to be ignoring.

3. _"A HPS is a single point of light, that puts out all that red and blue. Your Leds are tiny little points of red and blue. If you understood the basic fundamentals of light you would get that."
_Actually, if you knew the fundamentals of light you would know that it doesn't matter. The monitor you are staring at right now is using tiny points of RED light, GREEN light, and BLUE light to create the "white" you see on screen.



> Although LED grow lights have shown promise through plant research by NASA and many universities, it is unknown whether the results are applicable to Cannabis cultivation.
> Traffic lights
> * Automotive lighting
> * Stage lighting
> ...


Because clearly that short list covers ALL the applications for a fundamental lighting device, huh? LEDs are also used in surgical equipment, clock radios, submarines, airplanes, watches, and televisions *gasp* but there was no mention of those on your list!?



> Although LED grow lights have shown promise through plant research by NASA and many universities, it is unknown whether the results are applicable to Cannabis cultivation.


Uh no, actually its not unknown at all. Unless you think there is some crucial fundamental difference between cannabis and any other plant that uses light for food (there isnt), LED grow lights are a perfectly suited technology.


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## James Bond (Jun 6, 2008)

I thought you potheads were supposed to be laid back, lol.

I'm not going to get into the mathmatics and scientific arguments you guys are into now, mainly because I'm a deffinit newb and this is not even close to my expertise. I believe the last 20+ years have pretty well shown us that technology is rapidly moving forward, so it is very likely that LED's will improve to the point they are just as good if not better than other forms of lighting. If not they (scientists and what not) will come up with something far more advanced, if they haven't already. I see that growing with them works, any one who has searched around sees that. It looks like ledgrow's plant is doing well(correct me if I'm wrong, maybe it looks like shit and I'm just to new to this to know the difference), so it is working for him. I would like to thank ledgrow for having this faith in LED's, because this is how we improve on new technologies. For every one who is dead set on putting ledgrow down, what if Christopher Columbus would have been afraid of dropping off the flat earth? or what about all the other pioneers that were thought to be crazy, but are now looked at as geniuses. I won't be buying led grow lights anytime soon because of the price, flouros are cheaper, but maybe here in the next couple of years they will have improved enough on LED's that many people will be using them to grow.


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## wackymack (Jun 6, 2008)

thats a fucking halogen,placed right on top of the head of lettuce,thats not a hid,u idiot.give up already on trying to prove leds are the shit,cus they are not.


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## Dopalicious (Jun 6, 2008)

Seven posts + this picture = zero credibility



ledgrow said:


>


Your Jedi mind tricks don't work.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 6, 2008)

ledgrow said:


> No. Its really painful to read your embarrassingly ignorant posts.
> 
> 1. _" YOU have to understand that intensities do not directly ADD together no matter how many leds you cram into something, yes they can create a higher reading between two sources of lights but NO MATTER HOW MANY POINTS OF LIGHT YOU HAVE the general output is the same as the one point of light for the whole fixture."
> 
> ...



Good I am trying my hardest to cause you pain sir, so please read on.

1.)So You are saying that all the leds in the Pyrocon 100 are focused into a single point of light??

NOPE THEY ARE THERE beam angle is what 30 degrees, maybe 15 at most.

THIS MEANS THEY ARENT ALL BEING FOCUSED INTO ONE BIG DEATH STAR LED GROW LIGHT YOU NUMNUTS.

and there intesity mathmatically in the red and blue spectrum doesnt equal a 250w HPS intesity, even using a LUX reading of 12500 off the Pryocon100 shit or even double that for that matter.


2.)CFLS and Flouros are crap even when you get the properly colored Radjusted color sprectum bulbs, ever heard of em they do make them, oh wait your living under a rock and dont venture out of your shitty purple colored cave ever.

3.)What doesnt matter the fact that hid is able to have all its light come out a relatively single point or the fact that you think all the leds are focused into one big giant beam of light.

Oh wait you live in Ignorance land so it doesnt matter to you.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 6, 2008)

hey ledblow......i wasted a bunch of cash on that ufo piece of crap...so you can stfu and keep growing shitty little buds with your shity little lights....or are you going to respond with " oh well see...you bought the wrong piece of shit led light system....you should have bought the other piece of shit light system"....save it douchebag..your argument holds no merit....if leds were any good the growers europe would be using them....but they arent...they use hid....why.....because it works better than anything else out on the market today...period..


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## Pidgeon (Jun 6, 2008)

> that this new technology is only 1 or 2 product cycles away from becoming very attractive to many growers


Exactly, it isn't there yet. We are not debating that LEDs will never have a future in growing...in fact..I believe with time and the increase of technological ability they will advance beyond the capabilities of HID lighting. The only problem is..they aren't there yet. You can continue to tell yourself that LEDs are better than HIDs all you want, granted you would be incorrect, but nonetheless it doesn't matter to me what you say or do. As I said earlier: Enjoy your tiny and spindly plants with hardly and bud production, while we enjoy our healthy and high-yielding plants. I am done arguing this because you, sir (and I do use that term very loosely), are way too proud and ignorant to admit that you are indeed wrong. And you can try to find holes in other peoples arguments all you want, but when the it comes down to facts you just don't really produce any. Give us some pictures of your "super high efficient LED buds" and we will change our minds on the issue, but otherwise you make an argument without and factual evidence and expect us to somehow jump on your bandwagon. Anyway, I am done with this, so go ahead and try to "prove me wrong."

P.s. Lozt- I highly doubt you have any sort of degree other than mediocre high school degree or maybe even a GED certificate, because you have no idea how to spell or use punctuation. You wouldn't even make it past the first week in a college level course with grammar like that.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 6, 2008)

Seriously show us some proof that LEDS can put out and perform and I will EAT my words.

I have proof HID's can perform, but you have no eveidence.

I want to see leds grows plant able to match my HPS lighted plants yeild.

Which will be impossible even with 10 pyrocon 100's, unless you do find a way to death star concentrate the light. 

Which you wont.

and even then all I have to do is put up a single 1000watt HPS and your still beat.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 6, 2008)

40acres said:


> Show us some more pics of your super fat yields with the leds. Those pics you posted earlier of all that good solid buds made me want some led's


 funny


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## powerplant (Jun 7, 2008)

now im not gonna buy LED's nomore.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 7, 2008)

To be fair the UFO was a piece of crap that uses 5mm LEDS and the new ones use the Luxeons, Crees, and Phillips.

If they can make a single led give off the same intensity of red or blue light as the intensity of a CFL's red or blue spectrum then they will have something.

All of which can be calculated mathmatically.


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## blinkykush (Jun 7, 2008)

they will come out with a new light tomorrow shaped like a bunny, and put ads in high times and all over the grow sights saying its the best thing since blow jobs so people will bite. Stick with what has been growing dense and insane buds for decades now HID's. you cannot dispute the fact that skilled growers to a morun that plugs one in can get amazing results. Proven, forever that HID=best bud outcome. till i see proof that LEDs grow big ass buds it doesnt matter what you ufo light people want to say. If anything who really has more merit here LED peeps who cant put up one harvest pic from there product or HID peeps who would have a hard time picking one. let NASA grow peppers in space and we will use our HIDs down here to grow pounds of hydro


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 7, 2008)

Best thing since Blow JOBS hahaha. funny

Peppers in space, lbs of hydro down here.
couldnt have said that better.

and you better believe if our lights didnt need 400,600, or 1000 watts a hour theyd use em too. come to think of it why not just stick some solar panel on those bitches and use 1000 watt HIDS???


----------



## nickfury510 (Jun 7, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> *To be fair the UFO was a piece of crap* that uses 5mm LEDS and the new ones use the Luxeons, Crees, and Phillips.
> 
> If they can make a single led give off the same intensity of red or blue light as the intensity of a CFL's red or blue spectrum then they will have something.
> 
> All of which can be calculated mathmatically.


exactley.........and its the most popular led set-up...........


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 7, 2008)

High times bullshit made that happen, it was also the first led light that could barely keep a plant alive so it was instantly praised

if only greeninplane.com would use cannabis we would have real comparisions and advancements in the field of leds, but he uses plants that need low light levels to thrive and therefore people see that and think "oh gee if its work for peppers then it must work for sinsimilla"


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## nickfury510 (Jun 7, 2008)

that fuckin light couldnt keep shit alive...thank god i was able to get $400 back from it through craigslist....fuck it though..everyone has to find their own way...but in the end the people who are serious about growing will come around and use the right equipment....it never fails....growing pot costs money...in order to recoup that cost you need to maximize yeild or else your just better off buying from the local dealer...leds and cfls dont maximize shit but clones and mother plants....hid for the big buds everyday.....


----------



## wackymack (Jun 7, 2008)

the only thing i can give props to the leds are,the leds on freemont st in las vegas.

leds are inferior to grow lights but they are great for commercial lighting,such as freemont st and billboreds and stuff,and are bein put into hospitals and such,for the low wattage and light signiture it gives off.

thats the only thing leds are good for

so sook it led growers


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## nickfury510 (Jun 7, 2008)

wackymack said:


> *the only thing i can give props to the leds are,the leds on freemont st in las vegas*.
> 
> leds are inferior to grow lights but they are great for commercial lighting,such as freemont st and billboreds and stuff,and are bein put into hospitals and such,for the low wattage and light signiture it gives off.
> 
> ...


 that is an insane light show.........


----------



## wackymack (Jun 7, 2008)

yea it is.its an amazin feat.and its powered by the colorado river. so yea eco-friendly.


----------



## ganjagoddess (Jun 7, 2008)

You guys are makin me wanna go to vegas again. haha maybe after next harvest we can all bring some good herb to vegas, God knows they need it.

All you find out there is meth and coke, and I wont touch that shit.


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## wackymack (Jun 7, 2008)

dont forget about the brothels


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## nickfury510 (Jun 7, 2008)

i was just there for new years....stayed on fremont st......no herb to be found....


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 7, 2008)

me and my BF got ripped off on a 20 sack on freemont. No herb just newspaper in a black trash bag type material all tied up really wierd style.

It was worth the risk of getting ripped off...


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## nickfury510 (Jun 7, 2008)

yeah.........next time i go to vegas im driving....i dont drink so i gamble alot...if i was loaded i would just hangout on the strip and look at the pretty lights........


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## wackymack (Jun 7, 2008)

theres so many attractions there.the ny rollercoaster is fun.its a family place now.great tourism and economic profits.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 7, 2008)

ahhhhhhhhhhhh.....there is no place like vegas......im gonna plan the next trip tommorrow!!!!!!!!


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## Firekyro (Jun 10, 2008)

Im no expert but the UFO is not the same as the Lightblaze 400 or Procyon 100. The last two look like a more professional set up. The Procyon backs it up a side by side comparison yielding better results than a HID 400. The youtube guy with the UFO was 1/3 away from having an equal harvest with his HID. So one can put two and two together to figure out the Lightblaze which is slightly more efficient than the Procyon which had the test is much better than the UFO. Looks like this unit might be as good as an HID. Someone should compare the two. I agree LED tec has been pretty lame but just like everything else in this world we make advancements and it seems that day is here. Now someone has to spend the bux to back it up.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 11, 2008)

The guy yeilded 31 grams off the ufo, and 96 off the HID.

How do you figure 1/3 away?

Plus the 400 watt HPS is $119
the UFO or Pyrocon100 or any led fixture is over $600.00


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## James Bond (Jun 11, 2008)

31 x 3 = 93, which is just short of 96. That is why he says a third of the way there. For the cost diff I would say HPS, but maybe soon it will be the other way around. There is also the major cost savings(electricity) of the LED's but that still doesn't offset the cost diff.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 11, 2008)

No the guy above my last post said 1/3 away from an equal harvest.

He was thinking/implying 62gs to 93g's


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## smppro (Jun 11, 2008)

I love seeing people get called out, welcome to the forum.


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## James Bond (Jun 11, 2008)

ganjagoddess said:


> No the guy above my last post said 1/3 away from an equal harvest.
> 
> He was thinking/implying 62gs to 93g's


Gotcha, I just saw the two numbers earlier and blurted out the obvious.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 13, 2008)

Don't everyone welcome me back from my trip to some South Spacific island all at once. 

Boils down to this- ya wanna grow some dope or do you want to reinvent a couple of wheels? Fucking around with LEDs will give you a very light wallet and an even lighter stashbox. May as well grow with candlelight- at least you'll get some CO2! 

HPS will pound out poundage, for old farts or newbs, first time and every single time thereafter. Do you wanna grow some dope or do you want to fuck around defending a bad decision to buy some dim little toy lights? Me, I grow dope, bout 3lb/mo.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 13, 2008)

ledgrow said:


> Look man, I don't know who you are or where you get your information (its certainly not based on science), but I just couldn't take the complete inaccuracy of your post so I decided to make an account so I could respond.


You actually might have convinced someone if you just hadn't posted any pics of those sickly looking plants. Classic response of cannabis plants to insufficient light.

Seriously, get a real light and stop trying defend yourself for getting suckered into making such a poor purchase by some pie-in-the-sky sales literature.

If you want poor yields for several times the cost of a proper HPS- by all means splash out on a bunch of LEDs!


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## ledgrow (Jun 13, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> If you want poor yields for several times the cost of a proper HPS- by all means splash out on a bunch of LEDs!


 Unfortunatelyfor you, none of your statements mean jack shit. You have zero credibility because of the following:

1. You lack a basic understanding of how light works
2. You think lumens dont add.
3. You dont know how to measure light
4. You have no experience with the current generation of LED grow lights
5. You make concrete statements that have been proven false - "Anybody who thinks LEDs will grow dope is a fool"

So in the end, nothing you say matters. Anybody who listens to you after your horrendous and embarrassing track record is a retard.



Al B. Fuct said:


> You actually might have convinced someone if you just hadn't posted any pics of those sickly looking plants. Classic response of cannabis plants to insufficient light.


Whatever you say bud. Sickly? Really?  









Al B. Fuct said:


> ..some dim little toy lights?


Congrats on continuing to reaffirm your total ignorance. You have clearly never seen a current gen LED grow light. Nobody... NOBODY can call them "dim" rofl


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## 40acres (Jun 13, 2008)

this is what i do with my led's when I am not growing


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 13, 2008)

40acres said:


> this is what i do with my led's when I am not growing


hahahhhahaha

When I'm not growing poundage with my litebrites, I use 'em like this!







Whodathunk they'd be SO handy!

While my LEDs are just TOO busy telling me the time, I grew these plants (bout 4.3lb here- 46 x 1.5z) with NOTHING but pork fat candles and the sun that shines out of my arse:




...oh, and the minor assistance of some supplementary overhead 1000W HPS lighting with batwings & cooltubes. 

Try _*that*_ with ya toy litebrites.


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## Pidgeon (Jun 13, 2008)

@ledgrow 
HAHAHA this is your cola? HAHAHAHA! That little thing is not proof of anything but LEDs have a shitty yield.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 13, 2008)

ledgrow said:


>


My plants look like that with No Veg!!! We grow about 100 of em under 1 1000 watt HPS.


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## ledgrow (Jun 13, 2008)

Pidgeon said:


> @ledgrow
> HAHAHA this is your cola? HAHAHAHA! That little thing is not proof of anything but LEDs have a shitty yield.


Wah wah yield isn't high enough. But wait I thought you said they cant grow at all? You losers change your argument every time you post

This is a _Lowryder2_ strain. It is a quick-harvest low-yield strain. And if you don't think this plant looks healthy, you are *MORONS *












*Conclusion*: Leds CAN grow herb. Anybody saying otherwise is wrong. People arguing against me in this thread are clueless idiots who cannot form a solid opinion. I think any 3rd party person who reads this and sees you posting pictures of lite-brights to try and back up your nonexistent arguments will agree with me.

Idiots, all of you. Keep your deluded points of view, have fun! Keep it up and maybe you can change the whole growing community with your "pretend lumens" discovery 

I've made all my points, I'm done with this retarded forum. Rejoice! Now you can discuss your _*wrong*_ ideas amongst yourselves without anyone telling you your wrong. Adios.


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 14, 2008)

You do know you paid $600 for that plant right?


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 14, 2008)

$600!!! Hahahahahhahaha


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 14, 2008)

hey al is it just me or does he realize I can fit 100 plants that yeild the same under a 1000 watter, while he can only fit like maybe 6 under his little pryo?


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 14, 2008)

I don't think LEDwank knows nor cares. Knowledge isn't his strong suit. 

You do twice as many under your 1000 as I do- and I am getting 1.5z per. I need to get smaller pots!


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 14, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> I don't think LEDwank knows nor cares. Knowledge isn't his strong suit.
> 
> You do twice as many under your 1000 as I do- and I am getting 1.5z per. I need to get smaller pots!


We do no veg, and average 7-10 grams a plant....

Try Gro Bags...


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 14, 2008)

yep, I do no veg SoG- but 1.5z/plant = 42.6g/plant. How the heck is it I'm getting 4x your per-plant yield? That ain't right...


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 14, 2008)

damn Sir, no wonder you are the ninth wonder of the world!!!

check out my new diary in my signature and you can see my setup..

Tell me how to improve it, please...


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 14, 2008)

Nope, I'm no wonder of any world. I'm a stoned slacker is all, but thanks. 

yeah, will have a look a bit later. Chowtime.


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## Pidgeon (Jun 14, 2008)

> But wait I thought you said they cant grow at all?


When did I say that? (looks like somebody is grasping) Like I said maybe 4x , "LEDs can grow a plant, but they are spindly and have a shitty yield."


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 14, 2008)

Pidge, you're right, no one said that. 

Grasping, indeed. Somebody needs to get their hand off it.


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## Lozt (Jun 16, 2008)

40acres said:


> Bet that up led boy. You have 4 1000w lights in your grow, but you feel the need to take up for led's. Send in just a pic of your lights, along with your screen name on a piece of paper next to them. Thats all I want, just one pic of your 4000w setup.
> Quit trying to feed these people a bunch of shit and stop the madness. You go and lie to your friends, and I'll lie to mine, but lets not lie to eachother allright? We all know you dont have shit but 2 cfl's and a litbrite someone sold you after you read that they were able to grow a peachtree in a week and a half.
> Maybe you should build a cube out of the litebrites,and put the tiniest plant you can find in the middle of it and see if you can get an 1/8 of an ounce.
> Your a mutt. Walk on home son.


 

Seeing as how you called me a liar and all I decided to go against my better judgement abd post some pics for ya. Sorry it took so long I was busy soin my thing. I was gunna pick up a light brite but i decided that I would stick to what works go do some home homework you clown and get at me when your ready to talk with a little sence take care sweetheart .. xoxoxox


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## Lozt (Jun 16, 2008)

the second row 2nd last is how i exhasut the heat i use the sewer drain because it allows u to lower your I.R. exposure but i guess your wouldent need to know that if you had a light brite right hahaha faggit!


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## Lozt (Jun 16, 2008)

ledgrow said:


> Wah wah yield isn't high enough. But wait I thought you said they cant grow at all? You losers change your argument every time you post
> 
> This is a _Lowryder2_ strain. It is a quick-harvest low-yield strain. And if you don't think this plant looks healthy, you are *MORONS *
> 
> ...


 
This is an intelligent man listen to Him !


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## Lozt (Jun 16, 2008)

One more thing u see all that fuckin exahust work that would not be nessessary with LEDS and this is just another reason why leds not only work but would be better all arround for yield and security. I have 1500 just in exhaust work if u count the air cooled reflectors that would not be nessessary if the hids im now using dident up the heat so much. Im not looking for " light density " Im lookin for PAR lumens i only want what the plant can absorb 90 % of the light emmited from HIDs is wasted light its just brite not effective LEDs are the way of the future they just need to make thm bigger. Im not gunna add links do some iv read a tonn that i had to find my self I suggest that if u want to know the facts u get off your lazy ass and some some REAL reasearch your self. 

P.S. I think u might have smoked your self retarded !!


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## 40acres (Jun 16, 2008)

Geee, havent seen the bad spelling before. And its funny how people sign up just to post on the led bs after all the other led advocates have been deleted.


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## aladdin2685 (Jun 16, 2008)

yo led grow,
why dont you grow and record that cannabis plant using the time lapse with your led grow light to prove that that light will make those plants bud like the plant picks in your picture? very intreted!


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## Lozt (Jun 16, 2008)

eat my dick faggit I think u owe me a hand job or an apology Mr. English you have allot to say with no content you just try to bullshit your way through.. Its ok though I have a life im gunna get back to it next time u call some one on some bull shit have the testicular fortitude to admit when u look like an asshole.. asshole


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 16, 2008)

Lozt said:


> eat my dick faggit


No, eat a _*whole bag*_ of dicks! It's much funnier. 

Funnier than not being able to spell 'faggot,' anyway.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 16, 2008)

i gotta say...al b fuct is the man.......alot of people talk a lot of big shit about things they think they know or pretend to grow.....when i started my first hydro grow it went completely wrong and nobody could give me an answer to what was happening...al b read my half assed description and posted what seemed like a 4 page step by step reply on what was happening..why it was happening and how to correct it...he took some time from his life to give me a very useful bit of imformation and i was able to recover my plants...and i really want to say thanks al....anybody trying to discredit this dude really needs to stop and look at his threads and journals....this man has helped more grows and growers on here than anybody else..IMO....if you are really trying to say a guy doesnt know his head from his ass you should take your own head out of your ass first.......just a thought.....


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## 40acres (Jun 16, 2008)

Lozt said:


> eat my dick *faggit* I think u owe me a hand job or an apology Mr. English you have allot to say with no content you just try to bullshit your way through.. Its ok though I have a life im gunna get back to it next time u call some one on some bull shit have the testicular fortitude to admit when u look like an asshole.. asshole


 Your whole post is about hand jobs and eating dicks, and even some assholes and testicles, and yet you call someone else a faggot and spell it wrong. We'll be seeing you later under a different name for sure.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 16, 2008)

I don't think the 'eat a dick' thing was directed at me. I was just being my usual smartass self. If we're going to let fly with insults, let's at least make them funnier. 

Suck this, asshole that, etc is just boring. I wanna see some creativity, ferfuxsake!


----------



## 40acres (Jun 16, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> I don't think the 'eat a dick' thing was directed at me. I was just being my usual smartass self. If we're going to let fly with insults, let's at least make them funnier.
> 
> Suck this, asshole that, etc is just boring. I wanna see some creativity, ferfuxsake!


he would be out of the running if we even asked him to spell right. Creativity is way beyond his abilities. Maybe he can make a big "fuck You" on his led board and post it for us.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 16, 2008)

You score extra points if you can insult the person, their matriarchal lineage and their sexual proclivities with livestock all in one sentence, like 'Fuck you and the goat-felching whore that shat you into this world.' That's 50 points right there, I'm tellin' ya!


----------



## ThunderLips (Jun 16, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> yep, I do no veg SoG- but 1.5z/plant = 42.6g/plant. How the heck is it I'm getting 4x your per-plant yield? That ain't right...


- from rooted clone i do 3 wk veg, 60 - 75 day flower and come off with atleast 2 1/2 - 4 oz per plant. with about a 3oz average... hydro

with 2 600w HPS
6x8 room

I was thinking about sog and and packing more plants closer, I am interested in how to get 1 oz per plant, if I could fit 4 or even 5 where I fit 1 that would guarantee the yield to be larger for me per square foot.


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## ThunderLips (Jun 16, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> I don't think LEDwank knows nor cares. Knowledge isn't his strong suit.
> 
> You do twice as many under your 1000 as I do- and I am getting 1.5z per. I need to get smaller pots!


 
I think the difference would be square footage vs lumens youre getting to your plants, if shes using 1 1000 watt and doubling the square footage by raising the light higher in the air would decrease the amount of lumens given to the plant, i think if she used 2 1000watters and moved them closer she would improve her yield... just my 2 cents, take it for what its worth.


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## Pidgeon (Jun 16, 2008)

> Mr. English you have allot to say with no content


Was that aimed at me? Well, I could go off on the countless errors in syntax, grammar, and spelling..but I think you got the idea in the first post. It does sound like I struck a soft spot with you though (Haha! Mission Accomplished). Rule number one when it comes to trying to convey ideas with authority: don't make massive amounts of errors in your statements. How is that for some content?


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## 40acres (Jun 16, 2008)

Pidgeon said:


> Was that aimed at me? Well, I could go off on the countless errors in syntax, grammar, and spelling..but I think you got the idea in the first post. It does sound like I struck a soft spot with you though (Haha! Mission Accomplished). Rule number one when it comes to trying to convey ideas with authority: don't make massive amounts of errors in your statements. How is that for some content?


I think he was talking to me. I'm pretty sure its the one who pm's me love letters.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 16, 2008)

40acres said:


> I think he was talking to me. I'm pretty sure its the one who pm's me love letters.


You must be Al Pidgino! 

"You talkin' to ME?! You talkin' to ME, man?! There's nobody ELSE here!"


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 16, 2008)

ThunderLips said:


> I am interested in how to get 1 oz per plant,


Well, it's as simple as getting all conditions right. The hard part is getting all of them right at the _*same time*_.


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## ThunderLips (Jun 16, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Well, it's as simple as getting all conditions right. The hard part is getting all of them right at the _*same time*_.


Tell me about it , Im already working on my timing, but I am hoping to get 4 - 5 in the space of 1 plant. going from 3oz to 5 oz per bucket.


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## Pidgeon (Jun 16, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> You must be Al Pidgino!
> 
> "You talkin' to ME?! You talkin' to ME, man?! There's nobody ELSE here!"


Ha, I wish. With the knowledge and experience you have with your plants..it is humbling.

"You fuck my wife?!"


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## ganjagoddess (Jun 17, 2008)

Pidgeon said:


> "You fuck my wife?!"



mayyybbeee?


----------



## powerplant (Jun 18, 2008)

CHECK THIS SHIT
2 x Metal RED LED Grow Light panels + 2 FREE Grow Lamp on eBay, also Hydroponics, Plants Seeds Bulbs, Garden Plants, Home Garden (end time 17-Jun-08 19:30:00 BST)


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 18, 2008)

powerplant said:


> CHECK THIS SHIT
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-x-Metal-RED-LED-Grow-Light-panels-2-FREE-Grow-Lamp_W0QQitemZ200231017954QQihZ010QQcategoryZ43555QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262


Apt terminology.


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## changalang (Feb 7, 2009)

been reading through this thread.....well not all the way through got to like page 6 and got bored because everything being said about led grow lights is the same on both sides but there are a lot of differing ideas. In my opinion i think of led grow lights as an additive to the grow process, i think they can still be used by themselves to help grow a plant but ideally should be used (if at all) to give a plant an extra "boost" since they do emit in the perfected spectrum they just don't have the intensity. i think that's what i'll do for my first grow, use leds AND some cfl lighting, i want to keep it cheap on the energy side of things, i don't really want my bills getting to large i don't think my housemates will appreciate lol jokes.


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## racinjason (Feb 7, 2009)

i back LEDs thanks for that info ledgrow


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## GrowGreenGreen (Feb 11, 2009)

I can't believe the acrimony on this thread. Thank you, acrimonious ones, for making my first night on the forums as a password-carrying member really, really sweet. Like ditch weed sweet. Like, month-old bong-water on your lap sweet. Or, didn't know the bowl was cashed when you took the monster hit sweet.

Anyhow. I love my gay cousin and I love my fucking LED grow light! Oh don't worry I've got time line pictures coming. This second grow now in week 4 of flower is looking lovely and I'll show it all to you in good time. That is, those who are interested. Some like to grow as much chemically laden mutant buds as they can, regardless of the quality, I mean grams is dollars right?  Some care more for quality or purity. I grow organically in soil with LED and CFL. Simple. clean. quiet. cool. efficient. fun. oh and I guess it's LAME.


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## Brick Top (Feb 11, 2009)

The simple fact is LED lighting is DAMN good BUT you need to have a ton of them if that is all you are using for lighting. You need them above your entire area and surrounding your entire area and in between your plants too if you want full thick lush plants with big buds right down to the lowest parts of the plants and that makes LED lighting cost prohibitive for most. 

Trying to use them alone in small numbers will not work and buying as many as most people would need would bust their budget unless they have a really thick wallet or unless grandpa left you a hefty trust fund to tap.

They run ultra cool and they save a ton in electricity and they only put out the precise light spectrums plants need and nothing more like HID lighting does. 

In theory there is nothing better if you use them and you use them right but since they cost so darn much they are just not a value to most people. 

For some odd reason threads about LED lighting almost always seem to turn into an argument on any grow site I have ever been a member of. The discussion for some reason seems to bring out the worst in people and people get really upset at times and I just don&#8217;t understand it. 

People have such powerful opinions of lighting but I almost never, if ever at all, see people get upset when someone has a thread about their home made fluorescent light setup that in my opinion would be totally inadequate but many or most people are cool and the gang with that sort of setup but mention LED&#8217;s and some people FREAK OUT! It just doesn&#8217;t make any sense to me that people will become so emotional and so upset over LED&#8217;s. 

The fact is they are spectacular IF you can afford enough of them to do it right. A few years ago on another pot site I followed a thread of a members who had the bucks to spend and bought a ton of LED lighting and totally covered the area above their grow with LED light bars and put LED light bars on portable posts in between their plants and surrounded their plants with LED light bars and the plants were beautiful and thick and lush and had big thick buds on the lowest of branches instead of smaller buds or popcorn buds. 

It cost him thousands of dollars to do it but he had money to burn and didn&#8217;t care, he just wanted to use LED lighting and his results were utterly fantastic but most people cannot afford to do it right like he did and to do anything less than to do it right when it comes to LED&#8217;s is a waste of money unless you are just looking for a little supplemental lighting so for most people they are impractical and cost prohibitive but there is absolutely nothing wrong with LED lighting other than price. 

If they dropped in price like plasma screen TV&#8217;s have, meaning if they dropped a TON in price they would be the very best way for everyone to go but unless that happens for most people they are not worth taking the time to even consider them because of the total cost for as many lights as someone would need to totally go LED.


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## malcalypse2350 (Feb 11, 2009)

I'm not one to condemn things quickly. I think LED's could be useful as a supplement to traditional proven lighting. Side lighting for example. 
But as soon as I saw the zoomed out picture of LEDGrow's plant, I almost fell out of my chair laughing. It confirms most of what I've heard about LED's.
Dude are you really only growing one plant under that thing?! You're growing for your own reasons, but most of us look at yield to cost. If you put $600 into that and yield an ounce (doubt it looking at that plant) You wouldn't even see a return on your investment for a year.
The light penetration is crap. How is that plant alive looking at the bottom half. Plus can you get any usable yield from the bottom half? 
Get a HID light, retire your led's to side lighting.* Just stop defending your position. You are personally destroying the future of LED grows!* Sit back, let the technology develop and smoke that pathetic shit!


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## justthefacts (Feb 12, 2009)

Hi,
There is so much talk about the LED grow lights and just not enough data! 

Someone has got to test these things, so
here ya go, here are some photos...

I like the Lumigrow lights the best. I considered the theoreme too, maybe someone else can try that one...

The unit seems really well built. It runs incredibly cool. , it's blue (oooh pretty...) and you can adjust the red / Blue balance. I think I might be able to use this light for veg and flowering. 

Here is what I have so far.

setup - 2 lights, 500 watts total. table 3x6, sativa strain
Plants were vegg'ed under different lights and then placed under the lumigrow lights for flowering.
This photo after 21 days of flowering. 

It is a little weird working in the magenta pink light, one thing that is bizarre is when I leave the room, everything looks intensely green for just a second. 

I asked lumigrow tech support about this, they said that your eyes compensate for the lack of green while looking at the light from the lumigrow light. When you look at normally illuminated areas, your eyes overcompensate...

Like any powerful light, they suggest protective eyewear when working around the light.


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## Brick Top (Feb 12, 2009)

justthefacts said:


> Hi,
> There is so much talk about the LED grow lights and just not enough data!
> 
> Someone has got to test these things, so
> here ya go, here are some photos...


 
People have tested/tried them before and what it all boils down to is they work damn good IF you have enough of them and position them all over and around your plants and even in between them. 

I mentioned it earlier, at least I believe I mentioned it in this thread but it may have been another that is about LEDs and a grow thread I followed at another site a few years back was an all LED and it was FANTASTIC but it was only fantastic because the guy had the bucks to buy a ton of lights and virtually surround the plants with them top, sides and in between them. 

His plants were maybe the most lush plants I have ever seen and even the bottom branches had big buds on them instead of smaller ones or popcorn buds like so many people will get. 

So they work and they work well but you cant get off cheap and expect good results. They do not have the light penetration needed so you have to augment that by adding lower lights on the sides and even if possible in between your plants. If you have the bucks for as many lights as is needed you cannot beat LEDs but if you try to do it with a setup that more or less emulates a CFL or a HID setup you will not begin to get the results you could get with enough lights. You may still think your results are good but they can be AMAZING when you totally flood your plants with LED lighting from any and every direction.


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## justthefacts (Feb 13, 2009)

I have heard the stuff about penetration before and I have a question. So far as I understand, a photon from an LED is the same as a photon from the sun or any artificial light source. It's ability to penetrate is the same. What is boils down to, it seems to me, is that any light will penetrate the same.


So the basic idea of an LED light (in theory) is to put out as many photons in the red and blue spectrum (leaving out geen, yellow,etc ) as the light it claims to replace (in the case of my lumigrow lights, a 600 watt HPS) Lets assume for a moment that their claim is not just lies, damm lies, and marketing. If the two lights then are equal in their ability to produce red and blue photons, how can they be less able to penetrate?

How does one verify the claims of the LED fixture manufacturer? According to my brief internet seaches we need something that can measure "radiometric" power in specific bandwidths. The tool for the job seems to be a radiospectrometer and it's cost is way out of my league.


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## southern homegrower (Feb 13, 2009)

ledgrower i would like to talk to u. i am thinking about getting a procyon 100 w led.have done research and it sounds good. just not a lot of info out there. or i just cant find it.


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## GrowGreenGreen (Feb 14, 2009)

justthefacts said:


> I have heard the stuff about penetration before and I have a question. So far as I understand, a photon from an LED is the same as a photon from the sun or any artificial light source. It's ability to penetrate is the same. What is boils down to, it seems to me, is that any light will penetrate the same.
> 
> 
> So the basic idea of an LED light (in theory) is to put out as many photons in the red and blue spectrum (leaving out geen, yellow,etc ) as the light it claims to replace (in the case of my lumigrow lights, a 600 watt HPS) Lets assume for a moment that their claim is not just lies, damm lies, and marketing. If the two lights then are equal in their ability to produce red and blue photons, how can they be less able to penetrate?
> ...


@ Justthefacts, I've heard the same argument re: canopy penetration. One of the differences with LED is that each emitter (diode) sends very directional light, straight down. This is basically why an LED fixture needs no reflector. I just employ shiny wall covering and a light mover, and I've got excellent penetration. Even my girlfriend has noticed the improvement, now that we got the mover... 

I've got crazy hairs all the way down to the bucket.


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## TeaTreeOil (Feb 14, 2009)

I have this to add, if you think light(lumens/lux) is not additive(I'm laughing at you, but ya, here goes):

If I had three spotlights, red, green, and blue, and focues them into a single spot, you'd get white light.

Demonstration:


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## justthefacts (Feb 16, 2009)

Hi Brick Top,
I get what you are saying about the ability of the light dependent on the setup and using enough LED fixtures. Given the high cost of LED units , it seems an expensive proposition to outfit a room. ( I calculate that there seems to be an average of about 6 dollars a watt for LED fixtures, versus about 2 bucks a watt for HPS , given 1600 for the LumiGrow light and about 600 for an hps rig... )
Now the LED manufacturers claim that they are equivelent to a light that is about double the power ( for example LumiGrow claims equivelance to a 600 watt HPS , sunshine wildly claims to equal a 1500 watt, and theoreme claims to equal a 600 watt. ) that would put the "effective watts " per dollar to equal about 3 bucks a watt.

So we are now down to a buck a watt difference. That is indeed significant, but if you are a long term grower, then the cost of power starts to make a difference. I pay about .25 a kilowatt hour, plus I have to run really expensive airconditioning.... I think that , if the lights produce satisfactory results, I am going to start seeing a payback in less than a year. That is going to be worth it to me. If I get a decent yield, then I don't care what they cost, I am going to get my money back in just a few harvests.


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## Moonkeysniffle (Feb 18, 2009)

I know I am new to this site but I have been doing a lot of research on LED's. I would really like to see someone do an equivalent test of LED wattage to HPS wattage. Not test a 300w LED to a 600w HPS. How about someone test a 600w LED to a 600w HPS? I think this would be very interesting and I don't have wonder if people might start changing their minds about LED's. Don't get me wrong I know a lot of it all comes back to cost, but if we could take that all away for a second and just look at the yeild and quality of the yeild, I think it would be very interesting. Just my two cents. I agree tho that there is some good info on this thread and a lot of bull arguing. Kinda sad.. peace


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## Spliffious (Mar 1, 2009)

Is anyone still around wanting to talk LED lighting. Specifically UFO model 90w.... Ebay special from Cali.....? I'd like to here some good and bad stuff about the product.


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## James Bond (Mar 2, 2009)

Spliffious said:


> Is anyone still around wanting to talk LED lighting. Specifically UFO model 90w.... Ebay special from Cali.....? I'd like to here some good and bad stuff about the product.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CtROw3uiVg&feature=related


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## Ganja Alchemy (Mar 3, 2009)

UFO is a NO Go! I am curious about the LumiGrow however!


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## Ganja Alchemy (Mar 3, 2009)

Wow I'm impressed that someone is actually putting some of these Hi-Tech LED claims to the test. From what I gather the top 3 products on the market right now are the LumiGrow and TI 600 and the Procyon. 

Sorry Sunshine Systems and the UFO's and any other mass produced LED's coming out of China...No Offense... Your Product Claims Are Bogus and the products over-priced for the technology used in the design.

I like the fact that the LumiGrow is made here in the USA. And the unit uses the 5 watt Phillips Luxeon Bulbs. The technology is from Silicon Valley and the LG 250 seems like a better design than the TI 600. I noticed to that the TI 600 uses more electricity. I think the product runs at 330 watts and the LG at 260 watts... 70 watts difference it all adds up.

The Procyon is an alright unit and the red spectrum they use is only like in the 620 range.

I took alook at the TI Smart Bar and I don't want to have to deal with another contraption. Water cooled is a neat idea...overkill. No Go on the TI Smartbar

HHHMMM seems like the LED race is heating up and it appears the technology is finally avaliable and growers can now get results.

I'm betting on LumiGrow.


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## James Bond (Mar 4, 2009)

Ganja Alchemy said:


> Wow I'm impressed that someone is actually putting some of these Hi-Tech LED claims to the test. From what I gather the top 3 products on the market right now are the LumiGrow and TI 600 and the Procyon.
> 
> Sorry Sunshine Systems and the UFO's and any other mass produced LED's coming out of China...No Offense... Your Product Claims Are Bogus and the products over-priced for the technology used in the design.
> 
> ...


With only two posts, I'm guessing your a salesperson. LED=inferior at present time.


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## Spliffious (Mar 4, 2009)

James Bond said:


> With only two posts, I'm guessing your a salesperson. LED=inferior at present time.



3 day money back guarantee..... wtf? should i do? I it worth experimenting with or is it a waste of time and money? 90w ufo 80 red 10 blue? It's taking forever to get to me... and I'm just a few states away... wtf again?


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## James Bond (Mar 4, 2009)

Spliffious said:


> 3 day money back guarantee..... wtf? should i do? I it worth experimenting with or is it a waste of time and money? 90w ufo 80 red 10 blue? It's taking forever to get to me... and I'm just a few states away... wtf again?


Lol, "3 day money back guarantee" what the hell are you going see in 3 days that will help you decide if the product is effective?


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## Brick Top (Mar 4, 2009)

James Bond said:


> LED=inferior at present time.


 
LED lighting is anything but inferior to other types of grow lights and is in fact far superior.

Where the problems are found is that all LED&#8217;s are expensive and the high quality ones are very expensive. 

Because of that most pot growers, who normally do not have large budgets, purchase low quality LED&#8217;s and in low numbers. 

They do not purchase high quality LED&#8217;s and they do not purchase enough LED&#8217;s. Also most pot growers have little to no idea of how to use them in the best way. 

What that all adds up to is people purchased garbage and purchased to few and used them incorrectly and were unhappy with the results they got from them and blamed the lighting instead of their poor choice of what to buy, not buying enough of them and not knowing how to use them properly. 

Then they say they are inferior and that they are unproven. 

NASA has had fantastic success growing both on earth and in space using nothing but LED lighting. LED&#8217;s have been proven to be far superior to any other form of grow lighting. 

No other form of grow lighting puts out 100% PAR light. No other form of grow lighting puts of as little heat. No other form of grow lighting uses so little energy. No other form of grow lighting has a life expectancy that comes close to that of high quality LED&#8217;s. Some high quality LED&#8217;s can last 11 years under continual use without any degradation of their 100% PAR light. 

One smaller LED light that only uses 80 watts of power exceeds the amount of light put off by a 400 watt HID grow light and it is 100% PAR light. 

It uses highly efficient 1 watt LED&#8217;s, uses only the exact spectrums required for photosynthesis, and uses wide angle directional bulbs. The 1 watt LED is one of the most efficient light sources in the world (lumens per watt). 

By using only the spectrum required, no light is wasted in the spectrums of light that do little or nothing for a plants growth &#8211; such as green light. 

Lastly the directional LED&#8217;s ensure 100% of the light is pointed downwards &#8211; they do not rely upon reflective materials to direct the light. 

It covers an area of 9 square feet, which is not much, but then for people with small cabinet grows or small closet grows that is more than enough. 

It has an 80,000 hour life expectancy and comes with a 3 year warranty, one year of complete coverage and two years prorated coverage. 

What other form of grow lighting gives you that?

But it costs between $499.00 to $599.00 depending on who you purchase from. That puts it out of reach budget-wise for most pot growers. 

You can purchase a panel of LED grow lights that uses 300 watts and out performs a 1000 watt HID light and does it using 80% less energy and puts off an extremely small amount of heat and puts out 100% PAR light which HID lighting and CFL lighting is totally incapable of doing. 

But is will cost you $1,795.00 (plus shipping and handling if you purchase it online). 

How many pot growers have room in their budgets for a light setup like that? Not many. If you do not believe me start keeping track of the number of threads and messages here that use words like cheap and low cost and low priced and inexpensive being a requirement for the lighting the person who started the thread or wrote the messages said was what they had to stick to because of budgetary constraints. 

LED grow lighting is absolutely unbeatable IF you can afford to purchase high quality LED&#8217;s and IF you purchase them in large enough numbers and or sizes for your needs and IF you know how to use them. 

If not you will be dissatisfied and blame it on LED lighting even though the real problem was the purchasing of low quality LED&#8217;s, not purchasing enough LED&#8217;s and not knowing how to use them properly. 

The blame for failure will wrongly be placed on them being LED&#8217;s instead of on the purchaser where it rightly would belong.


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## James Bond (Mar 4, 2009)

Brick Top said:


> LED lighting is anything but inferior to other types of grow lights and is in fact far superior.
> 
> Where the problems are found is that all LEDs are expensive and the high quality ones are very expensive.
> 
> ...


The expense is incredibly extreme, you say so yourself. That is one strike against it already. I don't understand why just because NASA uses it it is wonderful. NASA uses them because they use less energy, don't create much heat, and take up little room. NASA shouldn't even be used as an arguing point because we are not growing pot on the international space station. Also NASA is not growing pot on the international space station so we have absolutely no proof that there LEDs will grow "HIGH QUALITY" pot. Until I see an experiment/study/test whatever you want to call it from a reputable source showing that LED lights grow a high yeild and quality marijuana plant I will stay with my current opinion.


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## sittinherebored (Mar 4, 2009)

nasa only uses them because there is almost no heat and they use very little power.leds work if you have the budget of a cheap car and you have them above, around, and inbetween the plants. i could grow a beast plant if i place cfl's all around the plant too. leds are like big rims, they look cool, are really expensive and do worse(gas milage, ride quailty) than the normal ones(hps, mh). i would never try to grow with thousands of lil keychain lights...... and the pics justthefacts posted saying that there was improvement, the plants would be much thicker and healthier if there was an hps above them, they are lanky.


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## Ganja Alchemy (Mar 4, 2009)

No Mr Bond I'm not into LED sales. Actually I'm an old school head who's probably been smoking pot more years than you are old. I remember 10-15 years ago when the big debate among indoor growers was Halide vs. HPS. For years growers wouldn't think of using HPS bulbs over Halides even for flowering. Now try to find an accomplished grower who dosen't flower with an HPS. I was recently laid off from a white collar job and haven't grown for years and am getting back into it. Bond the last time I grew herb the internet wasn't even up and running! So Bond since researching LED's and state of the art grow rooms, I've found that you are wrong about the High Tech LED's...They do work! Having the web to do research is a great tool and I've been waiting to see if someone on any of these forums has purchased any of these High tech LED's. So finally we are now beginning to see some real results...even 6 months ago when I started this research I wasn't considering an LED product...now my mind has changed. The inital start up cost is expensive and I believe the lights will pay for themselves in the long run...lower operating costs, no bulb replacement, no heat signature, no expensive ventilation. And with one good harvest the LED's i am considering purchasing, probably the LumiGrow, one good harvest will pay for the lights.

If the lights don't work shame on me for not listening to you and if they do...you lose! So the debate rages on LED's vs HID's???

I'm not into sales...I'm just a futurist.

And to the guy who bought the UFO... Return it and do some research on Real LED Products.

And the debate rages on...LED's or HID's


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## sittinherebored (Mar 4, 2009)

i also forgot to mention the person who said you could get an led that out performs a 1000watt hid. wtf are you thinking? for that 1795 price tag i could buy almost ten 1000watt hid systems. so which plants would be better? your couple of lanky plants? or the multiple rooms full of thick lush plants i could grow with that amount of money. for anyone who fell for this lil fad give urself a big


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## James Bond (Mar 4, 2009)

Ganja Alchemy said:


> No Mr Bond I'm not into LED sales. Actually I'm an old school head who's probably been smoking pot more years than you are old. I remember 10-15 years ago when the big debate among indoor growers was Halide vs. HPS. For years growers wouldn't think of using HPS bulbs over Halides even for flowering. Now try to find an accomplished grower who dosen't flower with an HPS. I was recently laid off from a white collar job and haven't grown for years and am getting back into it. Bond the last time I grew herb the internet wasn't even up and running! So Bond since researching LED's and state of the art grow rooms, I've found that you are wrong about the High Tech LED's...They do work! Having the web to do research is a great tool and I've been waiting to see if someone on any of these forums has purchased any of these High tech LED's. So finally we are now beginning to see some real results...even 6 months ago when I started this research I wasn't considering an LED product...now my mind has changed. The inital start up cost is expensive and I believe the lights will pay for themselves in the long run...lower operating costs, no bulb replacement, no heat signature, no expensive ventilation. And with one good harvest the LED's i am considering purchasing, probably the LumiGrow, one good harvest will pay for the lights.
> 
> If the lights don't work shame on me for not listening to you and if they do...you lose! So the debate rages on LED's vs HID's???
> 
> ...



We will have to agree to disagree then. I hope it works out for you, but I sincerely don't believe you will get the results you want with LEDs.

Also, I am sorry to hear about you losing your job. I am getting laid off as well, Friday is my last day. I don't know if I would consider my job white collar, but I was making $50k as a draftsman and 3D modeler. Paid the mortgage anyways.


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## TeaTreeOil (Mar 4, 2009)

sittinherebored said:


> i also forgot to mention the person who said you could get an led that out performs a 1000watt hid. wtf are you thinking? for that 1795 price tag i could buy almost ten 1000watt hid systems. so which plants would be better? your couple of lanky plants? or the multiple rooms full of thick lush plants i could grow with that amount of money. for anyone who fell for this lil fad give urself a big


TEN 1000 WATT?!?!

Well one should cost around $72/month. TEN?! That's $720/month! Nearly 9 grand a year. Or $864/year for one.

*10 cents per kWh

LED seems to 'pay for itself' over a few years.


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## sittinherebored (Mar 4, 2009)

TeaTreeOil said:


> TEN 1000 WATT?!?!
> 
> Well one should cost around $72/month. TEN?! That's $720/month! Nearly 9 grand a year. Or $864/year for one.
> 
> ...


oh i wasnt really thinking about the electricity part just the initial costs. leds right now are still not advanced enough i think. maybe in a couple years ill think about it but they never seem to get shit for penetration with the rows of lil keychain lights. the bulbs need to be bigger and more powerful


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## Spliffious (Mar 10, 2009)

thought it would be interesting to experiment with one of these new led devices... i chose a cheaper model.... heres a pic.

ohh yah and i am using a fogger in my dwc. it works well for root rehab....


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## bf74 (Apr 4, 2009)

ganjagoddess said:


> damn Sir, no wonder you are the ninth wonder of the world!!!
> 
> check out my new diary in my signature and you can see my setup..
> 
> Tell me how to improve it, please...


 I just have to say 7-10 grams?! I dont claim to be some pot god, but you sure do talk alot of shit for someone who obviously dosent have alot of experience.


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## OGkushman (Apr 11, 2009)

Some guy's selling new SuperLED's for 450 bucks instead of 650 bucks. http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/for/1118299423.html


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## bf74 (Apr 26, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> They're not 'kind of good for veg.'
> 
> Plants vegged with insufficient light intensity will become spindly, with thin stems and long distances between nodes. If you want spindly plants, go get some LEDs.
> 
> CFLs will do better- and that's not saying much.


 cfl's will NOT do better. peace


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## Treeth (Apr 27, 2009)

"Al B = Retarded"

... laughed real good at that one.

Hey everyone, i'm new to the board, but I've read pretty much every worthwhile thread here. Ate most of it up. I tell people (1) al's my mentor...

 I've gotten good at making cheap led arrays using only the best, phillips lumileds. I have yet to / I am in progress with testing, however, I think densities of around 300 watts a square foot in dees are more than sufficient to be driving remarkable fruit growth, especially in something like a sog set up.

Its great to watch the plants under the blue and the red / purple, and the differences in the leaf growth and behavior under _only_ red or blue light...

I could spew for days. Intellectual property my friends! 

I dunno. I want to share the treeth! 

Anyone seriously interested in a test unit? I love the shit. 

Pimp and spam teh wares...


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## joebaze (Apr 30, 2009)

im down for a test unit!!!
got sprouts goin through dwc.
always wanted to test the led theory!


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## rasronin (May 19, 2009)

ledgrow said:


> Wah wah yield isn't high enough. But wait I thought you said they cant grow at all? You losers change your argument every time you post
> 
> This is a _Lowryder2_ strain. It is a quick-harvest low-yield strain. And if you don't think this plant looks healthy, you are *MORONS *
> 
> ...


I agree, those guys are fools. You may have paid 600 but that shit is gonna last way longer than their not so cheap sodium, metal whatever lights, plus i'd think you would save on the electricity bill too. Nice plant by the way.


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## rollin214 (Jun 19, 2009)

I'm a newbie at this indoors stuff and just purchased some LED panels for growing. I'm using just 60 Blue light LEDs: 465nm (nanometer) wave length, 165 Red light LEDs: 650nm (nanometer) wave length. (Soon will be 120 Blue and 330 Red) The results have shocked me. This is my first time growing indoors and the luster of green and the aroma of these plants are far superior to anything I was able to grow outdoors. The last poster was dead-on. Those pics are worth a thousand words! I have not yet gone into the flowering stage because I'm getting over the top foliage growth and more (strong)stems=more (beautiful) buds! LED's work, they are here to stay and they are going to revolutionize (smart) home growing. Trade those bulky, power hungery, b!tch to install, leaf burning HID's in for some LED's. As long as you get the nm's (wavelengths) right along with their proportion and up time, you will be amazed. I know I am.

Grow On Growers


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## sammons (Jul 22, 2009)

I won't quote anyone because this thread is just too jam packed full of rubbish I'd be here all day. LedGrow has said some pretty convincing counter arguments to the dribble that has been said and there are still stubborn and under educated people trying to argue their misinformed point of view. If you would like to get up to speed with the whole LED thing please read below:

First a little History:
I am a Mechatronic Engineer and have been serious about researching LEDs for growing for 4 years. When I started my research, LEDs were not up to scratch to effectively grow plants! The theory was there but not the production. In the year 2000 SolarOasis engineers developed and manufactured the world's first commercial LED plant grow light, it was insanely expensive then and it still is now and it is still ineffective. Around 2005, Hype about High Power LEDs started to get people interesting in the potential of LEDs. Then people started to advertise "LED Panels" as so called "LED Grow Lights" that still used 5mm LEDs and were also severely under powered. But unlike The Grow Bars from Solar Oasis they only used 470nm Blue and 625nm red LEDs which are the cheap, common LEDs. The forums lit up with people asking about grow lights and there were many making their own. The realisation of the Procyon 100 light was the first commercial example that I was aware of that used high power LEDs. Unfortunately it doesn't work as it was hoped either. It contains only Cree Red and Blue LEDs which are not actually aligned to the Photosynthetic response of both Chlorophyll A and B as much as they try to tell you. Thus, is not only inefficient, but is missing other colours that we now know are also important (UV and FR. Other manufacturers produced similar lights like the famous UFO light that has been so heavily copied in china. More powerful lights began to emerge from china but still restricted to the Red/Blue mostly due to cost, but also due to demand to get any old LED grow light into the market.

The LED Lighting market is developing at an extremely fast pace and research and development is increasing the efficiencies at an exponential rate, and the cost of LEDs are coming down dramatically. As of January 2009 there has been a breakthrough that promised to be able to reduce the production costs of LED dies by 90%. As that sort of technology filters through to the manufacturers and LEDs become used as the predominant lighting source, the retail price will drop even further. Lights are developing and since early 2008 TriBand and QuadBand LED lights have begun to emerge as the manufacturers have realised that the RED/BLUE lights are failing to produce results in budding/flowering. These new lights can have UV (395nm), Royal Blue (455nm), Orange Red (630nm), Deep Red (660nm), and FR (730nm).

There is no point sitting around crying that your UFO that you bought of Craig's list isn't working. Don't come to forums to whine that LEDs are no good and people should stick with HPS. If you had done your research you would know that its not the LED technology that are failing you, it is the mis-use of the technology and mis-representation of what LEDs are capable of. With such a cut throat market, and a mass of stupid people, of course people are going to cash in on the LED hype. But the Fact remains, LEDs will be the future of indoor growing whether you like it or not. Companies are using the revenues from sales of crappy LED Lights to fund the research that is required to produce better lights.

As for penetration, light is Light, the difference is the frequency. A possible explanation why light from a MH or HPS would "Penetrate" the plant canopy better is because plants do not absorb green/yellow/orange light very well. The light either passes through or is reflected, giving the lights chance to bounce around and get further down to lower leaves. These frequencies are not absorbed by plants, so the perceived increase of light penetration of a HPS does not mean that your plant is getting more usable light.

Next point I would like to make. LEDs are a different light source. Its not like removing a Metal Halide and putting in a HPS. They don't emit light in the upper infra red region (radiant heat). This is both good and bad. GOOD because it will be the end of frying your leaves and buds and end to wasted energy and end to noisy, expensive extraction fans and carbon filters and greatly reduced heat signature! But BAD because during winter your indoor grow may end up being too cold. You may need to think about not only ventilation but heating as well. But that is not the end of it. If you have tried growing with 600W or 1000W HPS you end up having to ventilate your grow area in order to cool everything down due to the enormous amount of heat generated by the lighting. If you want to add any CO2 its much like an open fire, 90% will go straight up the ventilation shaft. The use LEDs makes it possible to seal off the grow space and introduce CO2 without it all blowing away.

The rated lifetime of LEDs is often stated as 50,000 hrs, it is incorrect to assume that after 50,000 hrs the light is no longer usable. The figure means that in 50,000hrs the light output will be 70% of its original brightness. And in 50,000hrs after that is will be 70% as bright as it was after the first 50,000 hrs, so in theory will just get duller and never actually die. (As long as the power supply can keep going that long)

So now we have a light source that uses half the energy to produce the same results, doesn't burn our plants, and reduces suspicious electricity bills. LEDs make it possible to eliminate smells and open the way for increased production through CO2 supplements. LEDs have an instant on (no warm up) and no cycle times we have to worry about. No more dead timers from the inductive load of inductive ballasts killing the relays and won't need replacing for a long time. 

Unfortunately LEDs are not cheap! It is the efficiencies and features I mentioned above that make LEDs so promising. If you are trying to grow on the cheap, LEDs may not be for you. However, you can get a single 600w LED 5 Band LED light for less than US$900 posted to your door. If you can make that back in less than 6 months, the next 7-10 years is all profit and much more stealthy.

Just don't go around saying they don't work as well as a 600w HPS until you have tried a grow with 600w LED using UV, BLUE, RED, Far RED LEDs. Please Please Please don't go around saying, "I have tried LEDs and they suck" when all you have done is stick your plants under a 10w LED panel off eBay!!!
Regards
Phil


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## xesvuli420 (Aug 17, 2009)

wow, this thread was a hot one there for a minute, and just died off. What happened to all the people buying one to test? lol

Ok, I get it. LED users say LED's are the best, HPS users say LED's are worthless when it comes to yield. Has anyone actually used both to get a solid comparison?

I have a problem. I am growing inside a non-ventilated closet, and can NOT vent it! I do have a fan running thou, and can NOT raise the power bill by more than 15$. But I need something to give these guys light. Someone with EXPERIENCE please help me find a solution to my problem.

90w LED UFO Triband (I'm afraid its junk)
250w HPS (i'm afraid it will give off to much heat)
CFL's 
2ft Fluor's

I have seen alot of promising videos online for the UFO's, lol but notice that most of them are posted from a LED SELLER. 

Someone who has found a way to get a nice yield from a closet, PLEASE help me. Thanks


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## directional (Aug 17, 2009)

ledgrow said:


> You can talk shit on LEDs all you want, but my results are not isolated. There are others having just as much success as me and eventually you are going to look more stupid than you do already. peace.


If you buy a quality LED light you will be happy. A lot of people talk shit about them for some reason. I love em.


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## SupraSPL (Aug 17, 2009)

sammons said:


> its not the LED technology that are failing you, it is the mis-use of the technology and mis-representation of what LEDs are capable of. With such a cut throat market, and a mass of stupid people, of course people are going to cash in on the LED hype. But the Fact remains, LEDs will be the future of indoor growing whether you like it or not. Companies are using the revenues from sales of crappy LED Lights to fund the research that is required to produce better lights.


Quoting Phil for Truth. Big THNX to all the early adopters!


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## sittinherebored (Aug 17, 2009)

the good ones MIGHT work(not taking sides on that part) but i can get an 87 porsche 944 turbo for what ive seen some of the good LEDs selling for. ooh or a sportbike


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## SupraSPL (Aug 17, 2009)

I think that very much depends on your goals. If your running a micro grow, you can make use of this technology for the same price or less than HPS. If you trying to grow 6 foot tall plants under a 1000watt lamp then LED may not currently be the right technology for that style grow.

I have seen 15 watt high powered 650 NM flowering lights on ebay for $50 shipped. Supplement that with a 15 watt UVB fluoro and that could yield 1-2 ounces of dankest bud for 30 watts! The tradeoff is there is a lot of work training the canopy and keeping the lamps DIRECTLY on top of it.


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## xesvuli420 (Aug 18, 2009)

SupraSPL said:


> I think that very much depends on your goals. If your running a micro grow, you can make use of this technology for the same price or less than HPS. If you trying to grow 6 foot tall plants under a 1000watt lamp then LED may not currently be the right technology for that style grow.
> 
> I have seen 15 watt high powered 650 NM flowering lights on ebay for $50 shipped. Supplement that with a 15 watt UVB fluoro and that could yield 1-2 ounces of dankest bud for 30 watts! The tradeoff is there is a lot of work training the canopy and keeping the lamps DIRECTLY on top of it.


Well I don't know what micro grow means, but I am planting in a closet with no venting, and my plants should never get more then 4 ft high. thats why i am so concerned with the heat. the closet stays around 75f, but I can't let it go over 90 if I go with an hps. I have enough money left over for 1 decision. HPS, LED, or fluors. I hear the fluors will reduce my harvest drastically, so really I want to go with either a...

250w HPS or LED

I was looking at the
90w Triband UFO (with red, blue, and white)...take a look...
http://eloofaimports.com/magento/index.php/ufo-grow-lights/90w-ufo-grow-light-triband.html


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## directional (Aug 18, 2009)

xesvuli420 said:


> Well I don't know what micro grow means, but I am planting in a closet with no venting, and my plants should never get more then 4 ft high. thats why i am so concerned with the heat. the closet stays around 75f, but I can't let it go over 90 if I go with an hps. I have enough money left over for 1 decision. HPS, LED, or fluors. I hear the fluors will reduce my harvest drastically, so really I want to go with either a...
> 
> 250w HPS or LED
> 
> ...


ive been using a 150 watt hps for the type of grows you are trying to do since the start.. the HPS does ok but uses way more energy than LED... someone i know does the same type of stuff and uses a 90w tri-band UFO and gets the SAME if not better results. I just purchased the 5-band 90w UFO.. I can keep you posted.


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## directional (Aug 20, 2009)

directional said:


> ive been using a 150 watt hps for the type of grows you are trying to do since the start.. the HPS does ok but uses way more energy than LED... someone i know does the same type of stuff and uses a 90w tri-band UFO and gets the SAME if not better results. I just purchased the 5-band 90w UFO.. I can keep you posted.


btw i went and visited a tri-band LED project and it looked GREAT..


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## beeker74 (Aug 22, 2009)

I'm not here to take either side.I am an HID grower-that really wants these things to work.I've spent the last year testing every new unit thats come along-I've finally hung it up with this last run-with a 180w jumbo 5 band ufo.The first blueberry pic was 150w hps/52w cfl-the second 180w led.I sincerely hope the trailblazing souls, whom I've got nothing but respect for, nail this thing better than I have.But look at it this way-how many tries did it take before men could leave earth and travel in space?Mad props to led growers for putting their time, money, and meds on the line to advance horticultural science.peace


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## beeker74 (Aug 22, 2009)

bottom line-I believe leds will work very well with micro cabs and smaller plants.Its just a matter of what your goals are.Good luck to all, regardless of your chosen cultivation methods.


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## odinfolk (Sep 1, 2009)

Greetings everybody!\nWell, after using these forums day after day for growing information, I finally decided to create an account and start threading/posting.\nAnyways, I would like to talk about LEDs as a reply to your post. First of all, I am very new at growing. The only previous experience I have to growing is when I was 13 years old, I simply put a schwagg seed in a pot of soil outside under a palm tree, and OHHH BOOOY...did it ever grow huge, bushy and healthy. Unfortunately, my mom ripped it out once fall came and little white pistils began showing. \nBack to the subject of LEDs. As of now I am doing my first \"real\" grow in my closed at my place (now that I finally have some room and away from the \'rents). Before I bought any clones or lights I researched, somewhat extensively, the best type of light--and many sources pointed towards LED. After hearing so many good things about LED lights for growing, I went ahead and spent $390 for the GrowUfo from sunshine systems. \nMy current set up is an area approx. 2 x 3 which is half of my closet. I have reflective material whever I was able to put it. In my case, I used an emergency blanket and I must say it\'s doing quite a good job. All this aside, I was anxious to get started and started at the end of summer, and with no AC unit my room gets pretty ugly during the day, so I\'m sure this has a great deal to do with why my clones weren\'t doing to good, initially. The LED is super super bright, almost blinding! But for whatever reason my plants still seemed a little on the \'sad\' side. When I filled my pots full of soil, I left about a 2.5 inch lip at the top, which turned out in my favor because I used this to line the inside of that area with foil which really helped out with giving the plants light to areas light wouldn\'t normally get to. Then I added a single fluorescent grow tube mounted high above the LED to add to the spectrum. After all this I must say, for vegging anyways, everything is going really really superb \nI plan on flowering my plants with the same set up and then see what happens. At first, I really regreted buying the LED but now I think it was actually a very wise investment. Too many haters on here to really get the scoop on how well these LEDs work. I\'ll post some pics of my set up upon request. We have some myth busting to do! And remember, we are all on here trying to find out how to optimize our growing techniques. Hating is too counter productive. Let\'s share what we know


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## project fuoro (Sep 15, 2009)

That is the 250W Lumigrow? Have you seen the Upgraded version? ES?

-pf-


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## triconomics (Sep 15, 2009)

I have two tri=band 120 watt side by side with two 120 watt tri-band with UV. I started flowering the orange band lights about 2 weeks ahead of the UV lights. The buds on the UV lights larger and more firm after about 3-4 weeks in as opposed to the orange band which are about 6 weeks in. The UV lights are actually what I envisioned what LED growing should be. There isn't even many on the lights only 10 of the 120 or something.


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## irishboy (Sep 15, 2009)

here what my leds did with 95-100F tmps their whole life and i also got attacked by spider mites. these are mostly sativas to. growen with 90w of led from start to 5 weeks flower, then used a 180w for 4 weeks now.


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## triconomics (Sep 15, 2009)

This is Purple Bud, recently pollinated with Afghan Kush........probably got 4-5 more weeks!


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## CSI Stickyicky (Sep 16, 2009)

There are some beautiful plants grown under LED on this thread. I am about 6-7 weeks from finishing my grow. I use a 90w UFO triband, and some CFLs. I also got a UVB bulb on the way. (slowest shipping ever) 

BTW, LEDs worked GREAT for veg! (or keeping a mother) Even if i dont like my flowering results, i will keep my UFO.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/223945-ufo-led-cfl-closet-tent.html


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## SM0K3NUG5 (Oct 6, 2009)

CSI Stickyicky said:


> There are some beautiful plants grown under LED on this thread. I am about 6-7 weeks from finishing my grow. I use a 90w UFO triband, and some CFLs. I also got a UVB bulb on the way. (slowest shipping ever)
> 
> BTW, LEDs worked GREAT for veg! (or keeping a mother) Even if i dont like my flowering results, i will keep my UFO.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/223945-ufo-led-cfl-closet-tent.html


 
www.growitled.com 350w led with 60 3w bulbs

normal leds are 1w bulbs


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## SM0K3NUG5 (Oct 6, 2009)

ganjagoddess said:


> Par is for plants Lumens are for people. TRUE buddy but
> 
> BUT WHAT LEDGROW ISNT POINTING OUT HERE is that if you do the math on the INTENSIY of usable spectrum in a HPS light Versus the 100% amount of usable light INTENSITY FROM LEDS.
> 
> ...


 
LEDs have the right spectrum any where from 440nm-770nm. 

I think you need to do a little bit more research. www.growitled.com


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## KenWood (Oct 6, 2009)

Went to CSU to talk with the professors that is Colorado State University. Went with the guy I bought my LED through. It is a bunch of factors involved. One of the things I asked was I talk with all these guys and they always say LED's do not have the penetration as the HPS and HID. The head of Agricultural said that this is just bunch of crap penetration has nothing to do with growing. The leaves do all of the light catching. That is why the plants has those big fan leaves to catch everything they can. What makes plants grow is something dealing with PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation ) Also I asked about UV because someone told me once that this plays a part in growing. The answer is nope. They are going to be testing one of the lights like I have. Yes I told them what I was growing and they said oh there are alot of people growing veggies in their basement. LOL Then they introduced a guy who actually grows the same veggie as me. He is keeping an I on my progress. So the old LED yeah I would say there was some issues but you cannot fix issues if nobody tries them out.

KenWood


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## StlSoldier531 (Nov 3, 2009)

ganjagoddess said:


> The guy yeilded 31 grams off the ufo, and 96 off the HID.
> 
> How do you figure 1/3 away?
> 
> ...


$119?? Yeah right. You are forgetting that HPS lights need at least two inline fans just to keep the temps down and depending on the brand of fans you buy that could easily be an extra $400. The reflector needed to put the HPS in will cost at least $125 if it is air cooled ( which is probably what you need with the heat issues that come from HPS lighting). The ballast will run another $200 dollars at least.

So how do you figure running an HPS set up is cheaper than LEDs?? You will have to explain that one because you left out a lot of details from that $119 quote.


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## StlSoldier531 (Nov 3, 2009)

nickfury510 said:


> yeah.leds suck...i tried em and got rid of them about half way through veg.....pllus ..that set up looks complrtley inneficient...


What kind of LEDs were you using?? If you were using a 60 watt LED to grow 5 plants then of course they sucked, LoL..

I am pretty sure you did not use a quality LED light, such as the SuperNova (the best one on the Market). Most people that have tried to use LEDs, usually buy the cheapest one they can find on ebay and then complain about having bad results. If you want a quality LED that will produce some good results then you have to spend some good money.


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## StlSoldier531 (Nov 3, 2009)

wackymack said:


> such a waste of money for that,when 600 can get u 2 1000k convesion kits that will blow that shit out of the water.deff dissing that led as far as im concered it makes me


Again, such a biased opinion. How much money do you think you will have to spend just to keep the heat temp reasonable with 2 1000k Bulbs?? 

I can tell you...MORE THAN 600 Dollars...

The fans alone will be almost that much.


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## StlSoldier531 (Nov 3, 2009)

nickfury510 said:


> so which led company do you work for......


So everyone who agrees that LEDs can be a good source of lighting is working for an LED company?? WoW!! You must have been really stoned when you made that post. What strain are you smoking on?? Cause I most definitely need some of that, LoL...


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## laserbrn (Nov 3, 2009)

StlSoldier531 said:


> $119?? Yeah right. You are forgetting that HPS lights need at least two inline fans just to keep the temps down and depending on the brand of fans you buy that could easily be an extra $400. The reflector needed to put the HPS in will cost at least $125 if it is air cooled ( which is probably what you need with the heat issues that come from HPS lighting). The ballast will run another $200 dollars at least.
> 
> So how do you figure running an HPS set up is cheaper than LEDs?? You will have to explain that one because you left out a lot of details from that $119 quote.


You're smoking rocks....You can run a 400w HPS light without "At least two inline fans". One fan will suffice. You'd be better off with a 400w HPS, magnetic ballast and Bat-Wing reflector than with the LED's I've seen thus far. Doesn't mean that LED's don't have their place, just that if you try to compare them to HPS your an idiot. 

One is growing with LED's and one is growing with HPS. It's rather clear where the strengths and weaknesses of each are. Do we really need to try to pit them together in a head to head battle on every LED thread? I don't grow with LED's. I don't want to deal with all of it and I like bigger yeilds. Some people love the advantages it has to offer and it suits them well. 

Which is better Basketball or Football? Bowling or Billiards? Tennis or Golf? 

They aren't the same and the arguments could be endless for which is "better" and why. It's so trivial and a waste. 

Where I do see the battle come up often is when LED light users try to convince newbs that have NO IDEA what they are talking about that LED's are completely viable and that they are common practice. Here in 2009 the universal wisdom is still to get HID lighting and/or floro's. LED's aren't mainstream yet and I do get a cringe when I see someone suggest an LED to first time grower that has zero knowledge and doesn't truly understand the tradeoff. Most of the time they just end up getting ripped off by china-man LED lights for WAYYYY too much money.


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## Treeth (Nov 3, 2009)

... Does anyone actually have something to contribute?;

or are you all lost consumers demanding a product be created for you.

I really do want to help you! You can get waaay more impressive buds with an led setup similar to mine running_ 700 watts._

Dense as fuck. Top class smoke, great yields, and you don't need CO2,

and you don't need the direct intense heat of an HPS anymore because you my friend just bought...

Equivalent wattage!, in L E D s.  

But this is hard to do at the inflated price-per-watt going rate of led fixtures... Everyone who is buying a current generation model is being taken. 

I'm here to work with you.

(Really; none of the buds on the Jorge Cervante High Times sensimilla porn calender looked more appealing!)


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## laserbrn (Nov 3, 2009)

Treeth said:


> ... Does anyone actually have something to contribute?;
> 
> or are you all lost consumers demanding a product be created for you.
> 
> ...


Equivalent wattage in LED is the new claim of the day. Okay, so I run 600w of LED's, setting me back what $1200.00??? $1000.00 if I buy the cheaper shit. And then what am I left with? A hope and a promise that these will outperform my HPS (which by the way performs great). But if I'm not saving any wattage where is the justification for the expense on the lights? Heat isn't a problem for me, a ventilation fan fixes that and it costs a lot less than a ridiculous LED setup requiring all kinds of adjusting on the lights and all sorts of headache. It's llike growing with CFL's all over again.

I'm actually going to run 2 600w tents and I have a 400w veg space. That's 1600w. Should I replace that all with LED's? At what cost? Are you kidding me?


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## indoorsavant (Nov 5, 2009)

finally someone with facts and not spitting bullshit biased opinions.ive uses led and hps and the led keeps up i give everyone my word.you also get the benefit of no heat,and less energy consumed.led grower is right anyone who disagrees do soe research google led grows and look at the images,thats what i did before i soent my money and im satisfied.now if some one is using led pannels they will not work as they use like 13w,but the 90w ufo and up kick ass.hightimes and skunk magazine bith did compariosons of a 90w ufo against a 400w hps,same clones ,same enviroment,the led harvest came in around 14% more than the hps in the first test and in the second about 10% less than the hps but the smoke was much more potent,it sounds good to me.go check the magazines out if you think im lying.


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## laserbrn (Nov 5, 2009)

indoorsavant said:


> finally someone with facts and not spitting bullshit biased opinions.ive uses led and hps and the led keeps up i give everyone my word.you also get the benefit of no heat,and less energy consumed.led grower is right anyone who disagrees do soe research google led grows and look at the images,thats what i did before i soent my money and im satisfied.now if some one is using led pannels they will not work as they use like 13w,but the 90w ufo and up kick ass.hightimes and skunk magazine bith did compariosons of a 90w ufo against a 400w hps,same clones ,same enviroment,the led harvest came in around 14% more than the hps in the first test and in the second about 10% less than the hps but the smoke was much more potent,it sounds good to me.go check the magazines out if you think im lying.


 
Does your bud look like my avatar? That's why no one's knocking down the doors to buy shitty LED's right now. If HT was full of pics of LED grows that looked like their other shit, it wouldn't even be a discussion.


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## indoorsavant (Nov 6, 2009)

is this even your grow laserbrn doubtful because if it was youd have fact to back up your theory like i do.i have used both sources of light and made my choice,but what the hell ill humor you?how much did you spend on your electric bill veg through flower?how much on all of your lights?how many 1000w hps lights did it take to get buds that big like 5,ive used hps man and the led is cheaper to run with very similar results,and you dont have to but 500$ worth of fans and exhaust equipmentinto your closet cutting holes and causing damage to your place of living.even with all my fans and what not my 400w hps closet was always 85 and up,very harmful to growing plants,as a matter of fact i have a brand new sunlightsystems 400w hps in the box,and im selling it to a buddy because i have no use for it with my 90w ufo,do some research ive seen buds grow very large with led systems 90w and up not those crappy 13w panels


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## laserbrn (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm flattered that you think it takes 5 lights to get those results. I mean, they are good results, but I used 1x 600w HPS for that. I have one fan on my flowering tent. I use a T5HO for veg (360w, I think). My electric bill is nothing compared to the money I get and save for my bud. 

Here's a link to the grow journal if you'd like to see it....

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/207695-laserbrn-dp-white-widow-green-11.html

C'mon...where's yours? Show me your 90w LED grow journal, and don't fake that shit...show me the pictures buddy. Show me your buds.

I've had enough with the claims.... link to the HT articles. Show me some motherfuckin' evidence or simply piss off. I have never seen anyone with more than 500 posts, pictuers of their buds and ACTUAL evidence to support these claims. 

I would love for them to be true. I would love it for something better to come along, but no matter how many of these threads I've seen over the years, no one is able ever to "show me the money".


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## HaNDyGrOw (Nov 6, 2009)

I have a non-cheap-o UFO .. with hidhut.com 's satalitte CFL attachment.. look at my avatar pic.. n e ways.. gotta say after some time using HPS and LED w/CFL... LED is only going to be good for in MY OPINION.. veg or seedling state .. FOR FLOWER one will have to step up to HPS to get the sense, danky, full nugs.. I have expierence growing Bagseed, Dinafem Moby Dick, Lowrider Easyrider, and Some Jack Herrer.. everytime same thing all plants did well under UFO with about 16,000 in additional lumens supplimented with CFL and UFO claims 3650 lumens so roufly 20K lumens will veg about 2 or 3 plants well.. but after that go HPS for finish.. you'll me wasting you good genetics if you dont.. I am going for some DNA LA women grows soon along with more Moby Dick.. thinking of switching to MH and seeing if that will do well.. 4 under a 400 watter.. ??


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## laserbrn (Nov 6, 2009)

HaNDyGrOw said:


> I have a non-cheap-o UFO .. with hidhut.com 's satalitte CFL attachment.. look at my avatar pic.. n e ways.. gotta say after some time using HPS and LED w/CFL... LED is only going to be good for in MY OPINION.. veg or seedling state .. FOR FLOWER one will have to step up to HPS to get the sense, danky, full nugs.. I have expierence growing Bagseed, Dinafem Moby Dick, Lowrider Easyrider, and Some Jack Herrer.. everytime same thing all plants did well under UFO with about 16,000 in additional lumens supplimented with CFL and UFO claims 3650 lumens so roufly 20K lumens will veg about 2 or 3 plants well.. but after that go HPS for finish.. you'll me wasting you good genetics if you dont.. I am going for some DNA LA women grows soon along with more Moby Dick.. thinking of switching to MH and seeing if that will do well.. 4 under a 400 watter.. ??


 
I would like to add that I do belive LED's are awesome for veg. I love my T5HO, but they do put out some heat. I am fortunate to have a large veg area, but it would be completely unnecessary with LED's. I could ustilize a much smaller smace and not have to ventilate it like I do now. I may some day do this and I am a firm believer in LED lights for the vegetative state. There's plenty of evidence to support their use. I believe the plants actually do grow faster under the LED's in veg than MH, but for flower they are just not up to snuff. Certainly not bang for the buck.


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## Treeth (Nov 7, 2009)

Those are impressive colas laserburn.

But those main colas are also the result of a lot of veg time. That was a big plant. Most people who grow leds keep it under 'tree' status, and look to SOG for the proven efficacy over vegging out. 

Leds also have incredible value when spread out over their 70,000 hour lifespan don't you forget. 

But my particular charge is that yes; leds are better at driving flowering and resin production. 

You only have yet to see such a use specific led light.


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## potsmokinbasturd (Nov 7, 2009)

led,s will never compare to fluorescent/HID combo. The only thing worse than an LED is the bullshit lyin basturds that claim they are worth half a shit. TRUE STORY 11/7/09


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## potsmokinbasturd (Nov 7, 2009)

StlSoldier531 said:


> What kind of LEDs were you using?? If you were using a 60 watt LED to grow 5 plants then of course they sucked, LoL..
> 
> I am pretty sure you did not use a quality LED light, such as the SuperNova (the best one on the Market). Most people that have tried to use LEDs, usually buy the cheapest one they can find on ebay and then complain about having bad results. If you want a quality LED that will produce some good results then you have to spend some good money.


 
Hey this guy is fulla shit. Ya for the money u would pay for the top of the line LED you could buy 5 times more lumens going HID or even fluoros. Its a big scam go with what the big boys use HID. If Ive offended any 1 Im sorry lol.


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## potsmokinbasturd (Nov 7, 2009)

Any 1 that backs an LED is fulla shit, and a dubmass newbie with no REAL experience. Again if I offended any dubasses or newbies Im again sorry heeeeeeee


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## laserbrn (Nov 7, 2009)

Treeth said:


> Those are impressive colas laserburn.
> 
> But those main colas are also the result of a lot of veg time. That was a big plant. Most people who grow leds keep it under 'tree' status, and look to SOG for the proven efficacy over vegging out.



Why do you guys keep making assumptions without reading through the grow journal. The plants those cola's came off of where less than 3 feet tall. There were I beleive 7 of them in a 4'x4'x7.5' tent with a single 600w HPS. 
I am keen to your claims about LED's driving flower and resin production, the problem is that you simply again have an empty claim. WHERE ARE YOUR GROWS? Where is the evidence to support your claim? Why the fuck is it so difficult to get some proof? Ohh.....It's the "Jesus Effect". I offered someone on here tryin to hawk their LED wares that I would pay out the extra $$$ for 600w of LED's and that I would do a side by side grow if they would offer a 100% money back satisfaction guarantee with no questsion asked. 

If the LED grow outperforms the HPS than I'd keep them, but if not I'd have to send them right back. Good publicity for the MFG/Retailer as I would journal it, probably put it on youtube, etc.

What happened? Disappeared. And wanted $1200 for the lights. I can't do that, it's just no within reason. Half of that and we'd be in business for sure.


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## Treeth (Nov 7, 2009)

So those _are_ dutch passion ww colas? 
-I personally love their gear. I'm trying a new one of theirs, "The Ultimate", which yields much like the plants did in your picture. 

And thats too bad that led 'company' couldn't step up to the challenge, but this is exactly why I am enthralled by the leds - Easy, immaculate colas, even if you just barely keep the plant alive. 

But with CO2 and genetics they get huge.


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## laserbrn (Nov 7, 2009)

Treeth said:


> So those _are_ dutch passion ww colas?
> -I personally love their gear. I'm trying a new one of theirs, "The Ultimate", which yields much like the plants did in your picture.
> 
> And thats too bad that led 'company' couldn't step up to the challenge, but this is exactly why I am enthralled by the leds - Easy, immaculate colas, even if you just barely keep the plant alive.
> ...


 
Those are Dutch Passion White Widow Cola's. 100%. Ordered from Attitude seedbank originally. I am running another batch right now utilizing a SCROG to see how much it improves yeild. So far the SCROG looks good, but it's not as interesting to watch as the big cola's.


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## Yow (Nov 7, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Those are Dutch Passion White Widow Cola's. 100%. Ordered from Attitude seedbank originally. I am running another batch right now utilizing a SCROG to see how much it improves yeild. So far the SCROG looks good, but it's not as interesting to watch as the big cola's.


The genetics are very admirable. Wow

http:// abrpa.com

*advanced **blue **red photon applications*


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## desert fox (Nov 7, 2009)

Wow I read an entire led thread. I dont think it will ever be practical for large grows, but for someone in a closet and micro grows they might be the best option. Micro grows just dont make sense to me. That is alot of work for minimal results. I ain't knocking it, to each his own. I would just never do it or LEDs for that matter. At least the LEDs growlights are moving in the right direction going with the Cree high power lamps vs the shitty LED they were using earlier. I built a homemade caving light that is just plain bad ass. using 2 Cree lamps. I can see the bottom of 75 ft pits! I love being able to see that far for rockfalls and such when on ropes....It thows a SHITLOAD of light. Philips also has some top class high power leds. 750ma-1000ma rated led are frickin bright and might even have...gasp...some canopy penetration. I will have to re-read bricktops post about the par efficiency again.


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## Treeth (Nov 7, 2009)

I accept your challenge by the way Laserbrn.

I'll send you an invoice in the spring. I look forward to it.

I agree about Scrog, and
I think SOG is the way to go. LOTS of main colas, rather than bunches of side and/or three/4 good main colas. Its also the final method for me to attempt... and If you start thinking in tables,
Air-Assisted Aeroponics is the easy way to efficacy. 


-Im a gonna get a tattoo; Philips Lumiled Rebel!


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## laserbrn (Nov 7, 2009)

Treeth said:


> I accept your challenge by the way Laserbrn.
> 
> I'll send you an invoice in the spring. I look forward to it.
> 
> ...


 
You accept my challenge for what? You are going to grow some badass buds with LED's or you're going to send me some lights and invoice me in the spring? I'm a little confused?


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## Treeth (Nov 8, 2009)

I do grow badass buds,
and I'd like to eventually sell you something led related,
After I grow more badass buds.
and if I can beats a 600w hps, gram per watt.

This is how confident I am,

To make statements like these.


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## laserbrn (Nov 8, 2009)

Treeth said:


> I do grow badass buds,
> and I'd like to eventually sell you something led related,
> After I grow more badass buds.
> and if I can beats a 600w hps, gram per watt.
> ...


 
I would love to see it done. I would set the stardard @ 1G/Watt. If you can get even close to that with LED's you'd sell a zillion of them. Everyone is always working towards that coveted # and it would really revolution things if someone could show a grow @ say 600w where they were able to even get 500g. I'd love to run them side by side and I'd love someone to back their product enough to let me do it. Just guarantee it for 90 days, 100% money back guarantee, no questions asked and I'm down. It's not the expense of the lights, it's the lack of evidence to support that they truely work. Asking me to pay out $1200 on a wing and a prayer just isn't going to work.

Let me return it if doesn't work and we might be talking. Right now $1200+ would be too pricey anyway to scratch together, but I could by the time this batch is done. About 30-45 days I could come up with the scratch to put together another setup.

It's also not JUST the lights, I want the same tent, trays, reservoir, etc. that I currently have so all together I gotta come up with a good $2000 for everything. Which ain't the end of the world, but it damn well better work!


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## Treeth (Nov 9, 2009)

Well Lazerbrn,
are there any stipulations to this?
I mean, a gram per watt in an aero system with CO2 counts, correct?

BTW, go and check out this thread .

His system, which isn't really his, 
is close to what I'm doing. However he has never grown cannabis.

and i do not plan on sharing that msrp or the same optimism on coverage


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## Yow (Nov 9, 2009)

Treeth said:


> Well Lazerbrn,
> are there any stipulations to this?
> I mean, a gram per watt in an aero system with CO2 counts, correct?
> 
> ...


So, what do YOU have? beside unfounded criticisms and assumptions ...

I agree you won't talk MSRP , lack of product and all. Does it everytime.



abrpa.com


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## sgt.stiffy (Nov 9, 2009)

I also grow scrog with 2x 225 led panels, one is 80% red and 20 blue and the other is all red. Believe it or not it makes excellent healthy buds. And each panel is equivelant to a 400w hps system. Hps uses red spectrum for flowering and so my red LEDs are more efficient than hps. My full spectrum panel is better than hps for photosynthesis and veg growth. LEDs are the number one method for plant growth and is becomming much better than hps.


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## Treeth (Nov 9, 2009)

Yow, 

love ya man. I've been all over asian signals for years and I am still committed to them and what they stand for. There is lots of room for their products.


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## 420always (Nov 9, 2009)

have had no problems whith my led lights some people just cant aford to try them


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## weedyweedy (Nov 9, 2009)

Hello!

I see some of you guys know a few things about LEDs. I need your opinion, cos I wanna know if buying one blue (for veg)and one red (for flowering) of LED like this will be sufficient to grow dank buds for 2-3 female plants.

*BLUE*

7W Led Grow Lamp , Light bulb

AC 220V - 240V 

( Other Voltage Available )

in BLUE

190 LED cluster - Very Bright

Very Energy Saving

400+ Lumens

135mm Diameter / approx. 5.3" Diameter

Direct replacement for any 220 - 240V lighting. Direct Plug to AC wiring

Screw Holes for mounting

Can also be used for Grow Light Led. ( Other colors available )

*RED*

7W Led Grow Lamp , Light bulb

AC 220V - 240V 

( Other Voltage Available )

in RED

190 LED cluster - Very Bright

Very Energy Saving

400+ Lumens

135mm Diameter / approx. 5.3" Diameter

Direct replacement for any 220 - 240V lighting. Direct Plug to AC wiring

Screw Holes for mounting

Can also be used for Grow Light Led. ( Other colors available )

*The thing is, the LED setup is very cheap which is an indication that it might not be that "powerful", which is why I plan to grow only 2-3 female plants at a time. Is it gonna work? Each unit consumes only 7W, which is why I'm doubtful. *


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## fat sam (Nov 10, 2009)

i think if your going to bash led's you should try using them first
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQD9fVymhmM
in one of my youtube vids here i am growing a plant under a 90 watt "scam" ufo, now im not convinced it will beat a 400 but look at it and tell me you cant veg with lede power... when it is done flowering ill know how it preformed... from what i have seen so far people bashing led's have never grown with them, i just got one off ebay because i have heard so much conflicting info


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## weedyweedy (Nov 10, 2009)

What kind of LEDs did you use, fat sam? And how many? I want to grow with LEDs too.


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## weedyweedy (Nov 10, 2009)

Bah forget about it. I'm growing with MH/HPS instead


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## stelthy (Feb 25, 2010)

2X 90W UFO LED's 1X 125W envirogrow & 2X mini fluro's (side lighting) 3 weeks to go!! - STELTHY


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## MrG (Apr 22, 2010)

ledgrow said:


> Either you people don't know how to read, or your reading comprehension is so low you just cant grasp anything I said and instead continue repeating the same shit mindlessly instead of being able to respond to the comments.
> 
> Let me try again, maybe somebody somewhere will understand.
> 
> ...



LedGrow is RIGHT plants use a wavelength that is different then the lumens you are trying to make a point with.. Lets say that our eyes can only use or measure a certain wave of light as with plants they benefit from the use of the red and blue Wavelength in the process of Photosynth.. Lumens are used to measure the out put of certain types of wavelength.. a MH or HPS will emit a wave the your meter can detect as with CFL.. they wave isn't exact to the wave of say a Camera flash or a HPS or MH.. 
each have their use and optimal application in conjunction with everything being right for that setup we get a yield the = xxx in our own rooms. I have grown with HPS/MH and the Newer T5 setup and the now available LEDS.. I have grown in Alaska where the Best light is available (LET ME TELL YOU) hehehe 
Under MH or HPS you need nothing else in the light arena.. you do get heat!! cost of wattage and the replacement cost of bulbs ballast if applicable of course.
Under T5 you have two options really the Grow bulb or the flower bulb and of course a mix of the two so sorry three options. you also get Low!! heat low cost of wattage and the CON is you need to leave the ladies under light sometimes a week or two longer to achieve the same results as say a HPS or MH setup.. 
Under solely LED you need TIME and plenty of it to make sure the ladies grow correctly and YES they will produce almost exactly the same yield as a MH or HPS or a T5 setup.
Under the same I mean the same condidtions with everything like nutes, room size, temp, humidity and even the time light cycle the.. You get differences in yield..
Under again under T5 it is more time to equal the MH or HPS.. under LED you need same more time usually more then the T5 but not much more and yes equal yield .. being five ladies= nearly four o's per lady only shy like 10 grams.. I have been messing with this for a while now each setup along side the next at the same time of growth etc.. I have found that a T5 and some Leds work Wicked in the increasing of yield as long as everything else is equal. and my light cycles change from a 12/12 flower to a 20/4 for a week to two weeks prior to harvest. the push in yield on these has been pretty significant under the T5 8x54w flower bulb and four 250 each led panels that are 24"x 24" each along the walls and the T5 from above.
hope I didn't ruffle the feathers much but it is really based on the environment being equal to make a good educated choice.


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## IAm5toned (Apr 22, 2010)

ledgrow said:


> Look man, I don't know who you are or where you get your information (its certainly not based on science), but I just couldn't take the complete inaccuracy of your post so I decided to make an account so I could respond.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I have a clue what im talking about...
credentials:
6 certifications in major lighting systems, from all the big commercial manufacturers.
4 years engineering school
4 years electrical trade school, and currently working on my masters.
i have designed and installed some of the most advanced lighting systems sold.
working on my 18th year in the industry.



LED's are crap for growing...... they will work, but with nowhere near the efficieny of HID lighting. its that simple.
i can 12/12 from seed under HID and have tighter, frostier, heavier buds than the same strain/grow duplicated under LEDs
and for the record, lumens have shit to do with growing anything.
a lumen is a unit of measurement for _visible_ light, not actual light output.
if you measure the intensity of a lamp (any lamp) with the intention of comparing the results for growing, you need to speak in terms of Photosynthetic Action Ratings (PAR)
ex- a 1000w MV lamp will not perform anywhere near as well as a 250w HPS or MH... why? because the MH and HPS have a much higher PAR rating than MV... 
do some research instead of buying into technology... technology is nice, but you forget one key thing about it:
technology is sold by people that are in business to make money, not help you with your grow. 
if they think they have a valid selling point, (as LED manufacturers do) they will tell you exactly what you want to hear to get your money. 
the people on this site have no vested interest in making money off your grows... some of them are pros that have been at it for decades. im not telling you what to do, but you might want to listen more and talk less, so you that learn something usefull, instead of just blindly following false promises made by people that are out to make money.
at this point in time, 600w HID lamps will produce the best quality light for the wattage consumed. whether you use MH, CMH, or HPS is a matter of preference.
see, you just learned something valuable from an industry expert..........


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## cannabeast (May 7, 2010)

i work in a greenhouse, i could just ask them why they use about 300 HPS lamps per greenhouse instead of a million LEDs, but they might just look at me funny. look at the rest of the flower and indoor plant industry. even on the legal side where they are growing tulips and gerberas, they use HPS... when they switch to LED in the indoor flower industry around the world, I will too... but so far everyone is using HPS with the exception of a few amateur, 'grow your own own at home' guys who dont know what the fuck they are doing. look at the pics this LEDGROW guy put up. first of all he is growing one of the worst strains available from online seed purchase. ruderalis.. cmon man... and second of all they look like SHIT. WE ARE TRYING TO REPLICATE THE SUN HERE.


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## endive (Jul 1, 2010)

Wow, so much HID vs LED aminosity...  and I thought herb mellows the soul. 

Just because you prefer one method, doesn't mean you need to bash anyone and everyone who believe differently. No doubt, MH/HPS grows can consistantly produce some amazing returns. However, I've seen recent LED grows that are nearing the 1g/watt harvest ratio, in both smaller stealth grows (< 1.5 m2) as well as some respectably larger ones (> 18m2).

Grow with what you know, illuminate with what light source you prefer. Be nice to others, plain and simple. 



"Let us burn one, from end to end.
And pass is over to me my friend.
Burn it long, but burn it slow, to light me up before I go.

If you dont like my fire, then dont come around.
Cause I'm gonna burn one down.
Yes, I'm gonna burn one down.

My choice is what i chose to do; and if I'm causin no harm, it shouldn't bother you.
Your choice is who you chose to be; and if your causin to harm, then your alright with me.

If you dont like my fire, then dont come around, cause I'm gona burn one down.
Yes i'm gonna burn one, down.

Herb the gift, from the Earth, and what's from the earth is of the greatest worth.
So before u knock it, try it first and you'll see it's a blessing and it's not a curse.
If you dont like my fire, then dont come around, cause i'm gonna burn one down.
Yes i'm gonna burn one... down!"


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## LEDGrowKing (Jul 1, 2010)

endive said:


> Wow, so much HID vs LED aminosity...  and I thought herb mellows the soul.
> 
> Just because you prefer one method, doesn't mean you need to bash anyone and everyone who believe differently. No doubt, MH/HPS grows can consistantly produce some amazing returns. However, I've seen recent LED grows that are nearing the 1g/watt harvest ratio, in both smaller stealth grows (< 1.5 m2) as well as some respectably larger ones (> 18m2).
> 
> Grow with what you know, illuminate with what light source you prefer. Be nice to others, plain and simple.



HPS works very well. LED is now starting to work very well. I conclude we combine them. _**points to signature**_


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## but thats my joint (Feb 2, 2011)

Man, there is some pent up aggression in this thread!,more smoking less arguing is required 

I have been trying to create a really good resource for people looking to use LED grow lights for growing all types of plants.

I have created a LED grow light review page, but what i am really looking for to complete the article is a review of the latest LED lights that people are currently having success with, and also whether people are having success with a combination of led and other grow lights.

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Thanks

btmj


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## bigdodenigga (Apr 5, 2011)

passtheblunt said:


> HAHA i just have to laugh at this...
> 
> im sorry Al. B fuct
> 
> ...


i completely agree i think ledgrow is intelligent, and he isnt being any kind of dick, just stating facts, and all to you people who are closemided fucks just completely shut out l.e.d.s as an option, fuck you


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## puffenuff (Apr 5, 2011)

Old thread but it got revived so gotta show LED lights some love. Never been happier growing than I am with my LEDs. Super efficient and extremely effective. The results ive had amaze me and everyone who has witnessed them in action.


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## zatlkaj (Sep 5, 2011)

you guys are silly. LED is definitely the future of indoor growing. unfortunately this technology is still new so it still needs lots of developement and experiments. 

why don't you rather encourage people like Ledgrow to continue their efforts and to improve their techniques? i bet first HPS growers got trough same hate and flame sourcing from dumb closedminds just like you.


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## SuperQuick (Sep 30, 2011)

sammons said:


> I won't quote anyone because this thread is just too jam packed full of rubbish I'd be here all day. LedGrow has said some pretty convincing counter arguments to the dribble that has been said and there are still stubborn and under educated people trying to argue their misinformed point of view. If you would like to get up to speed with the whole LED thing please read below:
> 
> First a little History:
> I am a Mechatronic Engineer and have been serious about researching LEDs for growing for 4 years. When I started my research, LEDs were not up to scratch to effectively grow plants! The theory was there but not the production. In the year 2000 SolarOasis engineers developed and manufactured the world's first commercial LED plant grow light, it was insanely expensive then and it still is now and it is still ineffective. Around 2005, Hype about High Power LEDs started to get people interesting in the potential of LEDs. Then people started to advertise "LED Panels" as so called "LED Grow Lights" that still used 5mm LEDs and were also severely under powered. But unlike The Grow Bars from Solar Oasis they only used 470nm Blue and 625nm red LEDs which are the cheap, common LEDs. The forums lit up with people asking about grow lights and there were many making their own. The realisation of the Procyon 100 light was the first commercial example that I was aware of that used high power LEDs. Unfortunately it doesn't work as it was hoped either. It contains only Cree Red and Blue LEDs which are not actually aligned to the Photosynthetic response of both Chlorophyll A and B as much as they try to tell you. Thus, is not only inefficient, but is missing other colours that we now know are also important (UV and FR. Other manufacturers produced similar lights like the famous UFO light that has been so heavily copied in china. More powerful lights began to emerge from china but still restricted to the Red/Blue mostly due to cost, but also due to demand to get any old LED grow light into the market.
> ...


Nice info Phil, one thing you didn't mention is that LED's can also be dimmed (lower intensity for clones, higher for veg and flowering).

I'm also working on a 648W custom array 900mm x 900mm with 8100x 80mW LED's that will replace my 400W HPS.
Does anyone know a good colour/white ratio to use?


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## cianferret (Nov 7, 2013)

nickfury510 said:


> yeah.leds suck...i tried em and got rid of them about half way through veg.....pllus ..that set up looks complrtley inneficient...


I dunno maybe I will still need to play with other lighting but check out my plant pictures. I used bloomboss led lighting, seems to work nicely. This plant should yield 2 ounces said a grower of 70+ plants who visited to asses LED lighting and their potential. Also I heard companies are very inconsistent about LED quality. Some are very overly priced and give shitty results while a few other growers one from a dispensary that is the second oldest in Colorado tested with LEDs and saw a greater yield and more potent buds. Another and last note is LEDs are very direct in their light path. It can get very intense for the plant to grow too close to the lighting which causes the plant to burn or stop growing. Same goes for having the light too far away the light intensity diminishes. I heard mixing florescent lighting increases the variety of the light spectrum.


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## GroErr (Nov 8, 2013)

IAm5toned said:


> I have a clue what im talking about...
> credentials:
> 6 certifications in major lighting systems, from all the big commercial manufacturers.
> 4 years engineering school
> ...


Hmmm, so these plants grew to this size in 12 weeks and are now well into flowering after 10 days flip to 12/12 because what? Because my water was spiked with something? NOT, no nutes other than my own DIY soil/peat/vermiculite mix. Because I added CO2? NOT. Because there was HPS/HID lighting nearby and it was responsible for the growth? NOT.

If you use them properly and figure out how to use them they work as well if not better when you consider all other factors like heat (none) and associated crap required to grow with HPS/HID. This is the second grow with them so this is not a one-of, they responded exactly like this in the first grow. It was a cheap/chinese/ebay 405W LED, actually drawing about 327W when I metered it. I've now purchased another cheap chinese LED from the same manufacturer to expand my room out and grow more. Geez, I must be an idiot I guess, I should switch to some form of lighting that will allow me to grow my plants NOT!!

Get real there are many people successfully growing with LED's, it's time, they're ready, yes, just like any other technology (particularly newer) there's crap out there. Spend a bit of time figuring out how to use it and the benefits (less heat and associated components/costs, far less power requirements) surpass anything out there. This cabinet grow costs me $40/month all-in, cooling, intake, exhaust, circulation etc. Sounds like a win-win to me, or am I just an idiot?


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## Ammastor (Nov 8, 2013)

I have to add to this.

I have never used LEDs to grow with. But I have seen a few grows that were pure LED grows. And the grows turned out to be bad ass. I give props for the use of LEDs.

HPS/MH have been around for a long while. LEDs aren't all that new just semi new to this application. LEDs are found just about everywhere now a days.

If you could be sure you are getting the correct wavelengths when you purchase LEDs you would be set.

There was a study done a year or so ago. That found there were companies that produced what they called one wavelength when the leds were tested all the leds from the same manufacturer were slightly different in wavelength. I am guessing that there are the cheaper setups you see around the net for growing and everywhere else you look. If you could find a reputable manufacture and fine tune you LED grow to use what only the plant needs for veg/bloom. I don't see how you would be able to beat the price of usage power consumed.

Technology is great just needs to be tuned into for this application. And from some of the grows I have seen. They are getting pretty close to saving a bunch of people a load of cash and get some good bud during the trip.

I want to try an LED grow. But there are so many LEDs out there I don't know what to buy. Don't want to waste my money on a product that may be off a wavelength or so. HPS/MH are proven. Once LEDs can be proven. I can see people heading in that direction. But then there are the others who will stay old school and use the HPS/MH.

Sooner or later I will get around and try an LED grow maybe a plant or 2 and see how it works out. 

Like I said I give props to LEDs they do work and if set up correctly. Could surpass HPS/MH in a load of ways.

In the future there will be more out there on this and maybe a great cheap setup. As technology progresses so wont the LED grow world.


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