# Is This Really Happening?



## ford442 (Oct 6, 2011)

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/10/feds-order-all-calif-medical-marijuana-outlets-to-close/1


The Obama administration has ordered all medical-marijuana dispensaries in California to shut down within 45 days or they will be prosecuted and have their property confiscated for violating federal drugs laws, the Associated Press reports.Even licensed outlets operating under the 1996 voter-approved medical-marijuana law are subject to the federal crackdown. California's four U.S. attorneys plan an announcement Friday.
AP says the federal prosecutors have notified at least 16 pot shops or their landlords.


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## parttimer (Oct 6, 2011)

" voter-approved medical-marijuana law"

Democracy?


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## Ernst (Oct 6, 2011)

Yes it is...

Looks like the Tax deductions are also being used. * Harborside Health Center, Oakland has to pay 2.4 million dollars. *

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/04/harborside-health-center-tax-bill_n_995139.html
And cannot deduct anything but the cost of buying the weed and things like Yoga as business expenses.
So electric bills, payroll and so on are not deductible.

Now also the Federal Government is now taking property away from those renting to dispensaries or having land used in growing it.

http://www.examiner.com/real-estate-in-san-francisco/harboring-pot-growers-the-fed-might-be-on-your-tail


So it looks like the Federal Government is serious that Cannabis business is not allowed.

So then we need to focus on legalizing cannabis for all like we do with prop 215.

We cannot fight the Tax Man and the Federal Government on taking property away but we can change out law to allow all of us to grow, use, and trade in non-commercial ways in California.

I know that I risk being told to F-myself again because folks want to open those doors and sell high priced cannabis and make a fortune but it isn't going to happen.

So why not do the people thing? 

Let us make it legal for everyone and not require a medical card. 

If I can grow and trade with you or perhaps get some of one kind from you and another kind from someone else and that is legal then is that so bad?

Is having California be the first State to opt out of Cannabis prohibition a bad thing? We don't need dispensaries and businesses to make that happen. 

It's time to focus on a simpler first step. For the people.


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## ford442 (Oct 6, 2011)

I am watching Prohibition Part 2 right now.. It is just like when the feds were in control of booze - everything went to shit and no one was happy.. and it was the most evident in New York City where every single policeman was on the take.. Whiskey was 'medical' and nothing made any sense..


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## HankDank (Oct 6, 2011)

I hate to see it go down this way, but to me it looks like a large leap in the right direction. If they shut down ALL dispensaries it might just be the straw that breaks the camels back so to speak.


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## mikeandnaomi (Oct 6, 2011)

Sorry to all those losing their jobs. Kinda bad that the Obama administration went back on its word. Typical politico sale ole same ole. 

I am thinking the pharmaceutical companies are seeing how big this business of medical cannabis is and thus enter campaign funds.

Imagine if these companies are forcing the hand of this administration. Just a wild conspiracy theory of sorts. Follow the money. As if 

EVERYONE doesn't know how prescription drugs make the 80's crack epidemic look like small potatoes. Follow the money. What ever 

happen to states rights? For all of you who wanted big government - here it is - you got it. With all that being said,

I like ERNST idea. He had the long post up top. The idea of growing in a non commercial way is spot on - in my book.


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## ihatepolice (Oct 7, 2011)

If this is true im done with Obama


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## stumpjumper (Oct 7, 2011)

I love how so many people are just now realizing that cock-sucker lied just to get cannabis users votes. This has been evident for months! Wake the fuck up people.


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## fishwhistle (Oct 7, 2011)

Ernst said:


> Yes it is...
> 
> Looks like the Tax deductions are also being used. * Harborside Health Center, Oakland has to pay 2.4 million dollars. *
> 
> ...


Ernst for president!!


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## Johnny1969 (Oct 7, 2011)

Yeah I'm pretty freaked out. I'm a 42 yr old late bloomer started using med marijuana just 5 mos ago. The thing is I have been taking tramadol for the past 8 years for an old injury. I freaked out when I found something other than a pill that nauseates me and causes me to stay up at night! Now I see this in the news last night. I guess my decision to start growing in my backyard 4 mos ago was a great idea. Oh this is my first post here so hi all this community has helped me so much the past several weeks.


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## HankDank (Oct 7, 2011)

mikeandnaomi said:


> Sorry to all those losing their jobs. Kinda bad that the Obama administration went back on its word. Typical politico sale ole same ole.
> 
> I am thinking the pharmaceutical companies are seeing how big this business of medical cannabis is and thus enter campaign funds.
> 
> ...


lol sir, thats not a conspiracy theory, everyone with half a brain knows big pharm pays high end kickbacks to the anti-cannabis wing. As well as tobacco, Phillip Morris has to be paying out the ASS. This worlds run by people, not machines. Money's a great incentive for influence to those who happen to find themselves in positions of power.


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## WWDave (Oct 7, 2011)

Sure glad we have the first half black president out of the way. I want to pour some organic pure maple syrup on his head because he is a WAFFLE.......


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## Wolfhound (Oct 7, 2011)

Obummer , plain & simple, did not EVER do the right thing. No one has scammed us worse than this sham of a Prez. His political end cannot come soon enough for our country.


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## ford442 (Oct 7, 2011)

I don't place the blame squarely on Obama - imagine if Osama suddenly changed his policy and said that westerners are just great - would he still be leader of Al Qaeda? Obama would be impeached or strong-armed if he did anything out of line..
So, my concern is for the federal government at large.. They are making themselves very unpopular.. Assassinations of american born citizens? Incursions into Pakistan? 9/11 was the result of mismanagement at a federal level - and unlike Afghanistan and Iraq, Pakistan has nukes..


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## Ernst (Oct 7, 2011)

Thank you guys for the kind reply.

i have been posting things similar to the for the people since the prop 19 2010 and it has been met with hostility.

Perhaps now that the only way to go is the for the people like prop 215 way we all might get our Cannabis people to support it.

Please correct me but we as a State did allow a class of citizen to have cannabis (medical) so it stands to reason that we can as a State allow a larger class of citizen to have rights to Cannabis too.

Sure it will still be illegal on the Federal level but the way I understand our process of Government working is that we (California) had to sign on like all the States did and I understand we can sign out.

What needs to be true is that the movement must continue and the people deserve cannabis freedom.


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## Milovan (Oct 7, 2011)

Not limited to just 16. You can count in 12 more in San Diego and 
2 just got raided by the DEA ( 3 vans full) 2 days ago in North Hollywood so the raids are NOT limited.
A most recent report is that dozens of letter were sent out and this is just
the beginning.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 7, 2011)

Wolfhound said:


> Obummer , plain & simple, did not EVER do the right thing. No one has scammed us worse than this sham of a Prez. His political end cannot come soon enough for our country.


I agree 100% cant wait for this to be over


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## jks067 (Oct 7, 2011)

This makes me sick. I cannot believe that they are actually doing this. It is time for the People of the United States of America to take our country back. Our forefathers have probably rolled in their graves at the rape of democracy that has happened since the Reagan Administration. This country was created for the People and by the People and I will be damned if they think they can get away with this without repercussion! The People of this Nation are tired of the lies and corrupt politicians. Take to the streets, brothers and sisters. Impeach Obama, if a president was caught lying such as this fifty years ago he would be out of office within a matter of weeks. Don't put up with this shit, people!


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 7, 2011)

we the people are a mear fly on the wall when it come to who is in charge! its all about money and politics and how they can rape us for 
all we got or ever will have


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## jks067 (Oct 7, 2011)

Perhaps a revolt is in order. It seems to already be underway with the Occupy Wall Street movement. The more "We the People" wake up to what is really going on and realize what a sham the government has become the more likely it is that we will see said revolt. I am a peaceful person at heart, but when my individual liberties and freedoms come under attack I can not help but get fired up. As should every American, in my opinion.


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## ATL HYDRO (Oct 7, 2011)

Read my signature, plain and simple.


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## ford442 (Oct 7, 2011)

"Later in his career, Anslinger was scrutinized for insubordination by refusing to desist from an attempt to halt the ABA/AMA Joint Report on narcotic addiction, a publication edited by the sociology Professor Alfred R. Lindesmith of Indiana University. Lindesmith wrote, among other works, _Opiate Addiction_ (1947), _The Addict and the Law_ (1965), and a number of articles *condemning the criminalization of addiction.* Nearly everything Lindesmith did was critical of the War on Drugs, specifically condemning Anslinger&#8217;s role. The AMA/ABA controversy is sometimes credited with ending Anslinger's position of Commissioner of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics."

It cannot be said enough - addiction is a public health and safety issue, not a moral criminal one.


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## psychedelictripper (Oct 8, 2011)

obama is more of a lying war hawk than jr. bush could ever hope to be. The liberals in CA must have been stoned when they voted for a cia agent. They thought they were electing change and the 1st black president. Here's news he's not black he's related to dick cheney. The word liberal was hijacked and misrepresented from the word liberty. CA can take a stand and vote for Ron Paul and liberty or vote for romney who will be more anti drugs(unless it's big pharma drugs)than bush and obama put together. Or go vote for cain and see higher taxes with his 9/9/9(666)plan. This member of the federal reserve will do what his masters tell him to do, tax slavery for all. You should also recall your governor. Elect a libertarian. That's your party. No difference between republicans and democrats.


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## Ernst (Oct 8, 2011)

We may have to admit the "Industry is the Cart and the Horse of legalization for all Californians" Then in California we have the Cart before the horse..

Perhaps this is a good thing? It will force us to legalize for all and not just the medical Industry types.


So who is ready and willing to organize an Initiative that legalizes "for the people" and skips Commerce?


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## silasraven (Oct 8, 2011)

ford442 said:


> http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/10/feds-order-all-calif-medical-marijuana-outlets-to-close/1
> 
> 
> The Obama administration has ordered all medical-marijuana dispensaries in California to shut down within 45 days or they will be prosecuted and have their property confiscated for violating federal drugs laws, the Associated Press reports.Even licensed outlets operating under the 1996 voter-approved medical-marijuana law are subject to the federal crackdown. California's four U.S. attorneys plan an announcement Friday.
> AP says the federal prosecutors have notified at least 16 pot shops or their landlords.


 see and that asshole said he would make it legal. how far along the road before it happends in allot of places


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## mikeandnaomi (Oct 8, 2011)

I'm told the ones being closed are not business modeled as non profits should be...


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## Cali chronic (Oct 9, 2011)

In case you do not head over to the Politics side of this forum. Consider going to MPP.org or Norml there is a canned letter over there you can send. I got it yesterday and sent it right away. At lease if you are going to Grouse he can at least hear it.


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## sso (Oct 9, 2011)

this makes me think about the time he laughed at the idea of legalizing mj on tv.

looks like these fuckers not only dont give a shit but are sadists too.


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## Ernst (Oct 9, 2011)

I am reading the phrase "not non-profit" in the articles I have read so maybe there will be a core standing left for medical.

Perhaps there is a point to the purge. Maybe many have stepped way over the line.

I do agree that prop 215 never authorized sales and that sales have become what I see rather than folks collectively growing for the most part.

Nonetheless I have no problems with a Cannabis Cafe and would very much like to see that legal in California.

Here is one article I read this morning. http://chatsworth.patch.com/articles/feds-raid-valley-pot-shop-and-charge-6-from-another-with-drug-trafficking

They say two 16 year-olds were smoking inside. What they didn't say is if they had cards.

We still have to pick through the crap reported and see the BS.

It is legal for them to have cards.


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## Ernst (Oct 9, 2011)

http://www.bakersfield.com/news/local/x771640423/Feds-announce-Calif-pot-dispensary-crackdown?utm_source=widget_16&utm_medium=popular_entries_widget&utm_campaign=synapse

Another article some may read.


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## ford442 (Oct 9, 2011)

by closing pot shop you play right into the hands of the cartels and mafia.. is it not obvious that driving the price down is a good thing?


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## potroastV2 (Oct 9, 2011)

ihatepolice said:


> If this is true im done with Obama





stumpjumper said:


> I love how so many people are just now realizing that cock-sucker lied just to get cannabis users votes. This has been evident for months! Wake the fuck up people.





WWDave said:


> Sure glad we have the first half black president out of the way. I want to pour some organic pure maple syrup on his head because he is a WAFFLE.......





Wolfhound said:


> Obummer , plain & simple, did not EVER do the right thing. No one has scammed us worse than this sham of a Prez. His political end cannot come soon enough for our country.





hellraizer30 said:


> I agree 100% cant wait for this to be over




You guys who are complaining about Obama need to wake up! Do you really think that McCain would be better? If he (or any Republican) were elected, the dispensaries would have been shut down 2 years ago. Bush and Cheney wanted to shut them all down, but decided to only intimidate and hope it would work. Like now, the people doing this are Bushies, and they are not listening to Obama.


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## ihatepolice (Oct 9, 2011)

rollitup said:


> You guys who are complaining about Obama need to wake up! Do you really think that McCain would be better? If he (or any Republican) were elected, the dispensaries would have been shut down 2 years ago. Bush and Cheney wanted to shut them all down, but decided to only intimidate and hope it would work. Like now, the people doing this are Bushies, and they are not listening to Obama.


PM me when Obama finds out this is being done and he does something about it.


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## Corso312 (Oct 9, 2011)

atleast bush/cheyney and mccain were upfront about their stance on this...obama has not delivered on one thing he campaigned on


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## Ernst (Oct 9, 2011)

This is about legalizing not the Politics forum..

I'm just saying....


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## BrockMonday (Oct 9, 2011)

From all the articles I have read, my understanding is that the only shops being closed down are the ones that aren't in COMPLETE compliance with the law. Nothing I have read so far leads me to believe all of them are getting shit down.


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## POUND TOWN (Oct 10, 2011)

ihatepolice said:


> If this is true im done with Obama


Your not done with him yet??
Anybody that still backs obama or any president for that matter just hasnt educated themselves
plain and simple* THEY ALL LIE. 
ALL OBAMA HAS DONE IS LIE*
people just dont give a shit and go by what they see on fox or yahoo

its fucking pathetic

step up to the plate and give a shit
you dont think it effects you? yea?
look around your home city 
I bet its not how it used to be
thats all bc people *DO NOT EDUCATE THEMSELVES 
STOP WATCHIG THE NEWS ITS ALL BIASED BULLSHIT*

and if anybody gives a shit why dont you look up videos of what is going on at wall street

The largest protest america has seen in ages is going on right now
*HAS ANYONE HEARD ABOUT IT???????*

Yea thats right they are 23 days into protest and the numbers are skyrocketing
over *15,000 people* in NYC a week ago protesting against corrupt wall street
and this movement is spreading nationwide

ALL major cities are starting to protest against this broken, outdates monetary system


*ANYONE WHO RESIDES IN CALIFORNIA
guess what?
Los Angeles is on the list for protests
and their numbers are growing!!!!!! EVERYWERE!!!!!
 
*Occupy Wall Street is quickly turning into an American Revolution
history is being written right the fuck now!!!!!!!!! so go help write it!!!!

has fox news reported on this at all?
have *you* heard about it?

remember the arab spring protest that took up every news channel for 2 months straight????

YEAH WELL THATS GONG DOWN RIGHT HERE IN *USA* RIGHT NOW
so why the fuck is there a media blackout now that its happening in our own country

DEMOCRACY IS NON EXISTENT IN AMERICA 
WHERE THE FUCK HAVE YOU ALL BEEN????????????

[video=youtube;Q2kgs_CvsVM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2kgs_CvsVM&feature=related[/video]

[video=youtube;ezYoxIYJjSo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezYoxIYJjSo&feature=relmfu[/video]

[video=youtube;31GIdFyr3Cg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31GIdFyr3Cg[/video]

[video=youtube;rQow0Fhua1A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQow0Fhua1A[/video]


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## ford442 (Oct 10, 2011)

BrockMonday said:


> From all the articles I have read, my understanding is that the only shops being closed down are the ones that aren't in COMPLETE compliance with the law. Nothing I have read so far leads me to believe all of them are getting shit down.


from norml front page - 
"Earlier this week, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) issued a long-awaited $2.5 million ruling against a major medical cannabis dispensary in California. Citing an obscure part of the US tax code meant to target drug cartels, the federal agency is barring dispensaries, even those licensed under state law, from taking any business-related tax deductions and is seeking millions in dollars in back taxes."
"U.S. Attorneys in California sent warnings to local dispensaries in San Francisco, San Diego, and elsewhere warning that locally compliant facilities still may be subject to federal prosecution for violating federal &#8216;drug free school zones&#8217; legislation &#8212; leaving these facilities with no choice but to either move or close."
"Federal regulators cracked down on banks in Colorado, California and Michigan that had previously conduct business with medical cannabis dispensaries, forbidding these financial institutions from allowing cash deposits or processing credit/debit cards from state or locally approved canna-businesses." - (my bank closed the other day.. i wonder if it is just coincidence..?)
"*Also, federal attorneys in California have sent hundreds of legal warnings to the landlords of properties that rent to medical cannabis businesses (retail, delivery, cultivation and testing) warning that their properties and assets are subject to swift civil forfeiture proceedings, and that they themselves may be subject to decades in prison. *Is it likely that federal attorneys do the same in Colorado, New Mexico and Maine; and to the numerous gray area dispensaries in Oregon and Washington?"


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## jks067 (Oct 10, 2011)

ford442 said:


> from norml front page -
> "Earlier this week, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) issued a long-awaited $2.5 million ruling against a major medical cannabis dispensary in California. Citing an obscure part of the US tax code meant to target drug cartels, the federal agency is barring dispensaries, even those licensed under state law, from taking any business-related tax deductions and is seeking millions in dollars in back taxes."
> "U.S. Attorneys in California sent warnings to local dispensaries in San Francisco, San Diego, and elsewhere warning that locally compliant facilities still may be subject to federal prosecution for violating federal drug free school zones legislation  leaving these facilities with no choice but to either move or close."
> "Federal regulators cracked down on banks in Colorado, California and Michigan that had previously conduct business with medical cannabis dispensaries, forbidding these financial institutions from allowing cash deposits or processing credit/debit cards from state or locally approved canna-businesses." - (my bank closed the other day.. i wonder if it is just coincidence..?)
> "*Also, federal attorneys in California have sent hundreds of legal warnings to the landlords of properties that rent to medical cannabis businesses (retail, delivery, cultivation and testing) warning that their properties and assets are subject to swift civil forfeiture proceedings, and that they themselves may be subject to decades in prison. *Is it likely that federal attorneys do the same in Colorado, New Mexico and Maine; and to the numerous gray area dispensaries in Oregon and Washington?"


"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." -Thomas Jefferson 
My man Thomas would be pissed if he knew what was going on.


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## potroastV2 (Oct 10, 2011)

BrockMonday said:


> From all the articles I have read, my understanding is that the only shops being closed down are the ones that aren't in COMPLETE compliance with the law. Nothing I have read so far leads me to believe all of them are getting shit down.



That's because all of the articles quote the pigs, and the pigs are professional liars. They lie to the judges and they lie to the public, and the people all say Oh well then, that's OK, because the pigs said so.


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## Ernst (Oct 10, 2011)

The regulate like wine folks say support them.

I happen to believe we have to do a simpler step of expanding what prop 215 is to everyone and adding a few small changes such as job protection, private non-commercial trade and horticulture rights.

I doubt that commerce will fly but once the people are free and California opts out.. Well it will start the tide turning.

It's just that we fight each other on just about everything so we cannot get anything done.


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## ford442 (Oct 12, 2011)

bend over and love the federal regulations once more: http://www.mapinc.org/norml/v11/n621/a08.htm


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## Ernst (Oct 12, 2011)

Are we whining?

Are we losers who get our asses kicked and live with it?

Think about it...

Now on to a story about those behind the wheels. 

There can be no doubt that this is an effort to tip the balance back and return the safe 1950's mindset but we already know that the generations have not pass away so we cannot expect to jump ahead politically. That is why I promote a small step of allowing people horticulture, use and non-commercial trade rights and I say skip the commerce for now.

But like some kind of mindless zombies there are those who could lead us to cannabis freedom who see only profits as the issue of cannabis legalization.

We need to kick some ass but it isn't only on the Federal Government side. Our profiteers who have made the profits are not interested in actual cannabis equality for all and in that we cannot get any place except to modernize the black market.

Well on that note let us read what is behind our "Medical Crack Down Dream Team" A small insight of the face of why the "human cattle" need to be herded away from pot shops and we also see the face of Save the Children. But save them for what.. Notice not from what but save them for what purpose?

http://www.sdcitybeat.com/sandiego/article-9634-laura-duffy-the-toughie.html


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## Mr. Guy (Oct 13, 2011)

Fortunately California is not the only state working to legalize marijuana. Even though the Obama administration is going back on there word, this topic has too much support to just go away. They will have to answer us. It's not a matter of if, but when. Washington is looking good to legalize it at this point so i am still hopeful


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## Ernst (Oct 14, 2011)

Oh yeah.. As long as people keep supporting Cannabis I agree with you that there is hope.


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## lemmis (Oct 15, 2011)

mikeandnaomi said:


> Sorry to all those losing their jobs. Kinda bad that the Obama administration went back on its word. Typical politico sale ole same ole.
> 
> I am thinking the pharmaceutical companies are seeing how big this business of medical cannabis is and thus enter campaign funds.
> 
> ...


 after looking into this for some time, this has become my personal belief. now all we need is some serious smoker with more money to donate to campaigns than big pharms to cancel them out. i wish us luck.


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## ford442 (Oct 16, 2011)

have you guys noticed the other thing that happened the day before the raids started? the IRS ruled that any business in the marijuana trade can no longer deduct business expenses from their taxes and will be basically forced out of business. 
the article i read reminded me that it wasn't the FBI or the police who took down Al Capone - it was the IRS...


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## Ernst (Oct 16, 2011)

Yes I noticed. A 1-2 punch.

This is it folks. This is the war on high.

A group of 35,000 doctors just called for legalizing in the face of this U.S. Attorney action.


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## mflb1993 (Oct 20, 2011)

I certainly hope not. I live in Maryland and much of the talk among politicans for legalizing it here have been based on what is going on in California. I can only assume that this will negatively affect the legalization process here, and everywhere around the U.S. F*** the government for making a plant illegal.


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## Ernst (Oct 20, 2011)

It is unclear as to exactly what the effect will be but so far I understand this as being a policing action.
Supposedly they will leave the little guy growing their plants alone. 
The major complaint other than the big industry complaint I know of so far is that after spending the season looking in the mountains and forests the haul of plants is way down because production has shifted to the Valley. I assume they mean the Central Valley of California where I admit Cannabis grows rather well.

As of yesterday the raids are unannounced so folks can expect military style machine gun commando action where they grab all the cash and weed.

It may well be that production of cannabis is organized in some instances or even illegal in scope when it comes to our medical program.


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## ford442 (Oct 20, 2011)

marijuana is a gateway plant to growing hemp..


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## Dan Kone (Oct 20, 2011)

Ernst said:


> So it looks like the Federal Government is serious that Cannabis business is not allowed.
> 
> So then we need to focus on legalizing cannabis for all like we do with prop 215.
> 
> ...


If anything, we need MORE dispensaries. Getting rid of the dispensaries is exactly what the federal government wants. Why advocate the federal governments position?

The want to get rid of cannabis related businesses because those businesses have the power to change laws in ways that normal people do not. If the dispensary system is allowed to expand, they will be powerful enough to lobby congress to change the cannabis laws nationwide. That's why the government is going after them. 

Going back to the days where legal cannabis businesses are not allowed is a step back, not forward. It takes the power away from us allowing the police to come pick us off one by one.


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## Ernst (Oct 20, 2011)

I read today that one article is asking where is Obama's explanation as to what this effort will do for us.

It's time we have someone stand up and say I am responsible so address your grievances to me. This 4 US attorneys who seem to be leaderless yet who are shaping the future of Cannabis in California are not responsible to us from what I know.


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## Xoshua (Oct 21, 2011)

Ernst I see you on every post I post on. Lol. I understand there are bills we can help sign and such but there has to be someone on this forum who has access to the inside. I'm just suggesting a lawyer or someone high up get some statements out. Even if we can get a reporter to ask Obama whats going on with the DEA.

Talking is a good start but we need an action plan against these highway men. Violence isn't an answer, we would need something diplomatic.


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## Dan Kone (Oct 21, 2011)

Xoshua said:


> we would need something diplomatic.


We need a cannabis lobby.


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## grizlbr (Oct 22, 2011)

lemmis said:


> after looking into this for some time, this has become my personal belief. now all we need is some serious smoker with more money to donate to campaigns than big pharms to cancel them out. i wish us luck.


 <<< is that not the same old same old? I do not care if my NAME & address ARE on WH.GOV I vote and I am LEGAL And kindly get over the fact that I have trouble with cap lck I type with 1 hand. Politicians only look at numbers can we show then the numbers? not in a 1000 person Gallop poll? Our real numbers with names and precincts? I have to show ID and answer some BS question to vote. So if we are not up right enough to ID our selves on petitions like Obama's wh.gov we do not count. So the first norml petition is signed by 46k people do we need 50 petitions by state: As the site states duplicate petitions might confuse things or do we show our actual numbers and be counted?


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## grizlbr (Oct 22, 2011)

Dan Kone said:


> We need a cannabis lobby.


 We need to state who We are and not be Anon amouse. Mice do not vote: while your at it vote on the two petitions I started after signing all the pro marijuana petitions, http://wh.gov/4e8, http://wh.gov/4ed In GOD WE TRUST! All others pay Cash!
*Leave the pledge of allegiance alone. There are too many things that need attention now.*

The pledge of allegiance was a traditional part of the start of the school day for a long time. How many pushed to have it removed? I believe it should be reinstated and with the words One Nation under God. This nation was founded on the precepts of religious freedom and the pledge of allegiance is not advocating a religion, But unity in the class room.
*Leave "In God We Trust." the motto of the United States of America*

Leave the motto of the United States of America "In God We Trust." In 1956, the United States adopted a motto, "In God We Trust." In a time of national healing for a country founded on religious freedom "In God We Trust." does not point to any individual religion but the Freedom of personal belief. Focus on more productive areas we all have our personal beliefs.


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## grizlbr (Oct 22, 2011)

If a million names showed up split on 50 petitions how many doors would FEDS be knocking on? Do we teach our children how to Stealth grow or show them to stand up for what is right? And lose then to the CHOKING GAME?


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## grizlbr (Oct 22, 2011)

Ernst said:


> I read today that one article is asking where is Obama's explanation as to what this effort will do for us.
> 
> It's time we have someone stand up and say I am responsible so address your grievances to me. This 4 US attorneys who seem to be leaderless yet who are shaping the future of Cannabis in California are not responsible to us from what I know.


aS I have a 100cubic cm space in my head, Ernst would you draft a petition for ________ state for the legalization for growing Marijuana for personal use 100 sq feet or 100 plants. Tax state tax stamp to transport across state lines. Growers state permit like concealed carry permit. (Might just include gun permit, tax TIN, WITH Grow permit 1 stop shopping?) I will post it to Obama's Whitehouse.gov for Georgia as that is my state. Don (wh.gov already has my name stand up and be counted!)
http://wh.gov/4e8 http://wh.gov/4ed


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## daniel cardenas (Oct 22, 2011)

i heard alot of growers joining the union they have political power not as much as they use to but they still have power.


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## Jack Harer (Oct 22, 2011)

This is a real sign in Rock Springs, Georgia







That being said, I feel better now.




grizlbr said:


> aS I have a 100cubic cm space in my head, Ernst would you draft a petition for ________ state for the legalization for growing Marijuana for personal use 100 sq feet or 100 plants. Tax state tax stamp to transport across state lines. Growers state permit like concealed carry permit. (Might just include gun permit, tax TIN, WITH Grow permit 1 stop shopping?) I will post it to Obama's Whitehouse.gov for Georgia as that is my state. Don (wh.gov already has my name stand up and be counted!)
> http://wh.gov/4e8 http://wh.gov/4ed


I would support that in a heartbeat, But as you know, as bad as we thought Sonny Perdue was, Nathan Deal is worse. I see veto on it even if they give the states the option. But lets TRY anyway.



daniel cardenas said:


> i heard alot of growers joining the union they have political power not as much as they use to but they still have power.


How does one join said union as a grower in an illegal state?


As long as we (the PEOPLE) are relegated to non violent means of protest, we are merely gadflies to the political machine. There is too much fear of reprisal, and a huge lack of cohesiveness (that the government relies on) keeping MJ users from uniting into any kind of formidable voting bloc. These petitions, although granted they ARE getting some attention, are merely designed to give the sheeple a warm fuzzy, creating the illusion that the Government will listen to the will of the people, and that we actually count for something. The fact is that an appointment to Washington is tantamount to a means to further personal wealth. Any idealist who actually acts in the interest if his/her constituency, and tries to significantly alter the status quo, gets nowhere fast. They either adapt or their political career dies. The issue of whether or not MJ is a danger to the people, or whether or not is has any medical value is immaterial. The fact is that there is MORE money being made by those who run the government due the illegal status then they would be able to line their pockets with if it were legal. It's all about the Benjamins. Until we can financially compete with the Big Pharm lobby and the like, it will always be illegal on the federal level. Not to say that we should just lay down and let the jack-booted thugs run roughshod over us, we should NOT go quietly into the night.................


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## Ernst (Oct 22, 2011)

Xoshua said:


> Ernst I see you on every post I post on. Lol. I understand there are bills we can help sign and such but there has to be someone on this forum who has access to the inside. I'm just suggesting a lawyer or someone high up get some statements out. Even if we can get a reporter to ask Obama whats going on with the DEA.
> 
> Talking is a good start but we need an action plan against these highway men. Violence isn't an answer, we would need something diplomatic.


 I'm good at reading the news and posting.
I did work the California Cannabis Initiative in 2008-2009 as my county Capitan.

So I am an ordinary man who is willing to do more. I don't have access to anyone higher up. 
The Guys who sponsored CCI posted they are still looking to further business, Cannabis Agriculture for example, where I champion Cannabis Horticulture for citizens.


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## Ernst (Oct 22, 2011)

Jack Harer said:


> This is a real sign in Rock Springs, Georgia
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's the We part I always see fade.
Most of the Cannabis people I know would rather hide than come out of the Cannabis Closet and protest. People want the best of both worlds. To be free and to be safe while getting that freedom.

It's human nature.

I was thinking that giving California voters a simpler choice, like prop 215 did, would pass.

What will work in other States I cannot say.


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## Balzac89 (Oct 22, 2011)

They are only closing ones involved in profiteering which under the law is illegal. Not closing all of them anyone actually read the article?


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## Jack Harer (Oct 22, 2011)

Maybe the Union or the Co-ops can use the info I posted in the politics section. Here is a re-post:

*This is a re-post of one I made in another thread, but I wanted to make sure that more people read this. I got to thinking about the legalization issue, the governments position, and was reminded of another very similar situation I was personally involved in. Here it is:

I see no logical reason why Washington has the right to rule any substance illegal for use unless it can be definitively PROVEN to be addictive, thus enabling an addicted person to become a burden to the State. The burden of PROOF of an addictive nature is on the government. We need to be able to get a recognised group or organization to challenge the DEA and the governments position. It CAN be done. Bear with me and I'll show the relevance of the following:

I belonged to a group of High Powered Rocketry enthusiasts called Tripoli Rocketry Org, closely affiliated with the National Rocketry Assn. You've no doubt seen us on the Discovery Channel, STILL enjoying our hobby today. But after 9/11, that was called seriously into question because the newly re-organised BATFE (Formerly the BATF) had placed our primary propellant on the List of Explosive Materials, thus prohibiting the possession of APCP (ammonium perchlorate rocket propellant), and effectively eliminating our ability to launch. We were all scrambling and crying the blues about it, and finally decided that we needed to get together With NAR, and fight this, because APCP is NOT an explosive as defined by the BATFE. The Clubs got together, and out of the membership dues, hired attorneys to fight. Now Tripoli has fewer than 6000 active members, and the NAR has around 30,000 at any given time. A pretty small group. After a 9 year battle, we prevailed, and had APCP removed from the list of controlled Explosives, and we continue to fly.
My logic here is that a very small group of people forced a federal agency to prove it's position in court, and won. The detailed chronology of the case can be found here: http://tripoli.org/News/Internal/BAT...3/Default.aspx
How we can unite, or who should spearhead it, and where the money would come from I have no idea, I just wanted you to know about this landmark case, and maybe take some hope. We could have done what the MJ community is doing and just grouse about our plight, but we took action.
Hopefully, someone who is in a position to implement something like this will read it and get inspired.

JH




*

PS Obama has demanded that the governments position be a scientific one in this press release:


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## Ernst (Oct 22, 2011)

Balzac89 said:


> They are only closing ones involved in profiteering which under the law is illegal. Not closing all of them anyone actually read the article?



Are they? I cannot find information as to just who and how many.
I did read that 8 closed in the Sacramento area as well as an update from RMLW that Sacramento has stopped advancement of dispensary rules.

Please post any news supporting this one way or the other.

As I see it even medical patients may find themselves being evicted by frightened land lords.


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## Bad Karma (Oct 22, 2011)

Balzac89 said:


> They are only closing ones involved in profiteering which under the law is illegal. Not closing all of them anyone actually read the article?


What people will say and what people will actually do are 2 completely different things.
The Feds are shutting down more then the profiteers, more then the ones in questionable zoning locations.
They're trying to shut it all down, and the exact same thing is happening in Canada right now too.
Hey, there's a coincidence, both country's doing very similar activities at the same time.
Oh wait, it's not a coincidence, they're trying to clear out the competition before they reschedule cannabis.
They only want cannabis to be available through your local pharmacy, in the way of Sativex or Marinol.
Even though cannabis will get rescheduled, they will keep it illegal for home production because they want 
your money going to the insurance companies and big pharma.
Despite our governments BS stance that cannabis has no medicinal value, Sativex is now in stage 3b of testing with the FDA.
3b is the last stage of testing before approval to release the drug into the public marketplace.

Just like W. Bush made it possible for the oil companies to profit heavily via the war in Iraq, Obama is doing the same thing now for insurance companies/big pharma via the war on drugs.


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## Dan Kone (Oct 22, 2011)

grizlbr said:


> We need to state who We are and not be Anon amouse. Mice do not vote: while your at it vote on the two petitions I started after signing all the pro marijuana petitions, http://wh.gov/4e8, http://wh.gov/4ed In GOD WE TRUST! All others pay Cash!
> *Leave the pledge of allegiance alone. There are too many things that need attention now.*
> 
> The pledge of allegiance was a traditional part of the start of the school day for a long time. How many pushed to have it removed? I believe it should be reinstated and with the words One Nation under God. This nation was founded on the precepts of religious freedom and the pledge of allegiance is not advocating a religion, But unity in the class room.
> ...


petitions are all good and stuff, but legally they do absolutely nothing. The writing is on the wall and the message is far from subtle. The federal government has already made it clear that they don't care what we think. They aren't going to care about some petition either. 

Do you know what they do care about? Money. If the dispensaries were to get together and donate to the right campaigns, the feds would start to listen. They aren't going to try and throw people in jail if they are using those people's money to get elected.


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## Ernst (Oct 22, 2011)

So Dan why make any effort here then?


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## Jack Harer (Oct 22, 2011)

Ernst, Not to be an ass, please don't take offence, but exactly what effort is being made here other than signing petitions? This CAN be done, but it's gonna take NORML or some other CREDIBLE organization to fight it, and it's gonna cost money for bloodsuckers, (Ahem) excuse me attorneys. Where would that come from?
The DEA is no different from the BATFE, they're all jack-booted thugs. Obama has issued a memorandum requiring scientific integrity in all decisions by the government, why not force the DEA to defend their positions? They may be able to hold sway in the political arena, but they'd play mortal hell defending their nebulous rationale in a court of law.

*edit* Maybe if they could get together and form a trade association of sorts, the dispensaries and everyone associated in the cannabis trade could pull this off with donations from the420 friendly private sector. I wouold THINK that NORML might have some views on this as well. I don't see them doing much on the front lines, maybe there's more going on behind the scenes.


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## Ernst (Oct 22, 2011)

My bad, I'm California Centric.

We here have a couple of initiatives gathering signatures so if any make it we can vote again.

I believe we will still be arguing in 2014 so I'm guessing that unifying is our biggest challenge.

It's just a mater of time and organization.


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## Pat the stoner (Oct 22, 2011)

Ron paul said that he would not use the gov to go after the pot . I used be union so I voted dem a lot , campaigned and all that . Now I just think theyre all full of shit . We all need Cali to keep on leading the way , more power to all of our Californians out there doing the right thing for MJ legalization . Keep up the good work . I been living with this pot oppression for around 30 years , and thought for sure these jackasses would have got it right a long time ago . People who dont know shit need to stop trying to make choices for others and stop trying to micromanage peoples lives . Whatever happened to the land of the free ?


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## Dan Kone (Oct 23, 2011)

Ernst said:


> So Dan why make any effort here then?


There are things you can do besides petitions that would be effective.


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## Jack Harer (Oct 23, 2011)

I'm all ears!


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## Xoshua (Oct 23, 2011)

What's your plan?


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## dukeanthony (Oct 23, 2011)

Come on DOWN to Dukes Dispensarie!!!!!3
Now NOW NOWWWW
We got your Medical Marijuana Right here
We got the best stuff

TO get You Ripped!!!!!!!
No Card? Doctor on staff No Problem

Yeah I can see why the Feds are going after "medical" Marijuana Dispensaries


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## Corso312 (Oct 24, 2011)

the feds are going after the easy mark.... like a fat girl in a bar and i think it is pathetic..why not go after all the so called doctors handing out oxy's and hard drugs in "pain clinics" ..there is an epidemic in this country of pill poppers who are hooked and get dope sick if they have withdrawal from prescribed drugs


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## Ernst (Oct 24, 2011)

They are going after docs and pharma.


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## Dan Kone (Oct 24, 2011)

Xoshua said:


> What's your plan?


We need an organization, a lobby, and a superpac. We need to get pro-cannabis candidates into congress. We need to fight anti-cannabis candidates. Politicians need to know there are going to be consequences to their careers if they keeping fucking with us. For example the Paul-Frank bill that would have ended things like the Montana and now California raids. But that bill has been buried in committee by a congressman in Texas. It wouldn't be that expensive to fund a pro-states right candidate against him in the primaries and maybe unseat the bastard.

If we do stuff like that the feds will think twice about messing with us. That will scare some congressmen into not messing with us. Right now there are no consequences for them if they push through anti-cannabis legislation. If you let them know they could face a well funded challenger in their next election if they do get in our way, they'll be less likely to screw us over. And then we'd get politicians who owe their job to the cannabis lobby and could do things like put the rescheduling of cannabis up for a vote in congress.

That right there will do what 1000000 petitions can not do. We need an organization. We need a lobby. We probably need a PAC or superpac too. That would give us a REAL tool to fight with. A petition can be thrown away. If you make politicians fear for their jobs, they can not ignore us any longer.


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## Jack Harer (Oct 24, 2011)

Where is NORML in all this? Do they even monitor these forums?


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## Ernst (Oct 25, 2011)

Jack Harer said:


> I'm all ears!





Xoshua said:


> What's your plan?



I believe his position is to support the current state of Commerce since he makes money at it currently.

Am I wrong Dan Kone?


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## Ernst (Oct 25, 2011)

Jack Harer said:


> Where is NORML in all this? Do they even monitor these forums?


Interesting question.


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## Ernst (Oct 25, 2011)

I see a few articles now coming out from our Cannabis activists.



> More generally, despite their emphasis on "large commercial operations" that "cloak their moneymaking activities in the guise of helping sick people," the feds are not making any allowance for nonprofit distribution of medical marijuana by patient


http://reason.com/blog/2011/10/24/heaven-for-medical-marijuana-p

And

http://obrag.org/?p=47793&cpage=1

--------------------

These are two of the articles I have read lately.


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## SisterMaryElephant (Oct 25, 2011)

Dan Kone said:


> We need an organization, a lobby, and a superpac.
> 
> That right there will do what 1000000 petitions can not do. We need an organization. We need a lobby. We probably need a PAC or superpac too. That would give us a REAL tool to fight with. A petition can be thrown away. If you make politicians fear for their jobs, they can not ignore us any longer.


I agree to an extent but there are Pro-MJ PACs already, both medical and recreational. Petitions gave us Prop 215 and other State MMJ reforms but the whining/demanding kind of petitions are a joke and are just ignored by politiicians. What we REALLY need is an image make-over and a new marketing campaign. Unfortuantely, when it comes to legalization, our own community is often our own worst enemy.




Ernst said:


> I believe his position is to support the current state of Commerce since he makes money at it currently.
> 
> Am I wrong Dan Kone?


Don't take this the wrong way, I'm kind of new here so I'm not up to speed on the whole conflict between you two but...

Do you think that kind of attack is really helping our cause? I see you going after Dan in various threads simply because he has a different opinion than you do. I don't agree with everything he posts but if you dismiss his points so easily, you're part of the problem too. You both have good points and points I disagree with as I'm sure both of you will agree/disagree with some of my points. If we all thought exactly the same things in exactly the same ways it'd be pretty damn boring.


YMMV...


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## Ernst (Oct 25, 2011)

It's more proactive avoidance of repeat of long and needless tirade.

So don't worry about he and I.


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## SisterMaryElephant (Oct 25, 2011)

Ernst said:


> It's more proactive avoidance of repeat of long and needless tirade.
> 
> So don't worry about he and I.


A preemptive strike? I see...

You think I'm worried? Like I said, I don't know the history between you two but don't confuse the fact that I point out the conflict and that you both have good and bad points with "worry."


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## comed (Oct 25, 2011)

Johnny1969 said:


> Yeah I'm pretty freaked out. I'm a 42 yr old late bloomer started using med marijuana just 5 mos ago. The thing is I have been taking tramadol for the past 8 years for an old injury. I freaked out when I found something other than a pill that nauseates me and causes me to stay up at night! Now I see this in the news last night. I guess my decision to start growing in my backyard 4 mos ago was a great idea. Oh this is my first post here so hi all this community has helped me so much the past several weeks.


I used to use that tramadol (ultram) for degenerative knee and hip pain as well as nerve damage in my arms (Thanks U.S. Army!) made me into a friggin zombie. I would have conversations with people and have no memory of it occurring. i would only remember about 1-2hrs of the actual time i was awake.
glad to hear you stopped using it also. bad medicine.


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## Ernst (Oct 25, 2011)

SisterMaryElephant said:


> A preemptive strike? I see...
> 
> You think I'm worried? Like I said, I don't know the history between you two but don't confuse the fact that I point out the conflict and that you both have good and bad points with "worry."


No I did not write pre-emptive strike. 

Looks like you are not perfect.


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## SisterMaryElephant (Oct 25, 2011)

Ernst said:


> No I did not write pre-emptive strike.
> 
> Looks like you are not perfect.


I quoted exactly what you wrote and it was a question, *I* never said that you wrote "pre-emptive strike" but that's sure what it looks like. Quit making things up.

I also never claimed to be perfect. You really seem have issues with people that have different opinions, you don't seem to take it well when people don't agree with you. Atack, attack, attack. Another pre-emptive strike or just posting the obvious?


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## SouthernSurfer (Oct 25, 2011)

There's far more than just Evangelists, Mormons and the Pharmaceutical companies against the decriminalization of cannabis. There's the petroleum, corn/ethanol, cotton, soy bean, sugar and any other commodity driven industry that cannabis can negatively affect the profits of.... And they're all paying lobbyists to tickle the nuts of our elected officials (even the religious establishments). Think about it though, cannabis can produce more than the prevention of a person's addiction to anti-anxiety medications or poisonous pain killers, it can produce textiles, plastics, bio-fuels, natural lubricants and food products that are high in protein (all renew-ably too). In my opinion, it is because cannabis has so many uses that it has so many enemies, enemies doing what ever they can to push the feds to financially rape, pillage and physically imprison innocent Pro-Cannabis Americans. Prohibition only creates criminals, and this will continue until almost every cannabis user who's afraid of loosing their job, custody of their children or even their freedom steps up and demands that this country be for the people and not the corporations that are claimed to be people. Until then, we must continue down this same shitty little path that keeps us all federally underground or bumping elbows in the pen with convicted crack dealers and sex offenders. It's a damn shame.



If you haven't seen it, checkout the Lotus Hemp car.


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## Ernst (Oct 25, 2011)

SisterMaryElephant said:


> I quoted exactly what you wrote and it was a question, *I* never said that you wrote "pre-emptive strike" but that's sure what it looks like. Quit making things up.
> 
> I also never claimed to be perfect. You really seem have issues with people that have different opinions, you don't seem to take it well when people don't agree with you. Atack, attack, attack. Another pre-emptive strike or just posting the obvious?


Okay, I get it.. You are trolling me. Enough said.


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## Dan Kone (Oct 26, 2011)

Ernst said:


> I believe his position is to support the current state of Commerce since he makes money at it currently.
> 
> Am I wrong Dan Kone?


If I want you to speak for me I'll let you know.


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## Dan Kone (Oct 26, 2011)

SisterMaryElephant said:


> I agree to an extent but there are Pro-MJ PACs already, both medical and recreational.


I was unaware of that. Got a link?

What we need is a unified group that can take on federal causes. A bunch of small disorganized groups aren't going to be able to do that.



> Petitions gave us Prop 215 and other State MMJ reforms but the whining/demanding kind of petitions are a joke and are just ignored by politiicians.


We have limited democracy on a state level. If enough people sign a petition we can actually get stuff on the ballot at the state level. We have no such mechanism on the federal level. That's why I think petitions are a waste of time here. It's a federal issue.



> What we REALLY need is an image make-over and a new marketing campaign. Unfortuantely, when it comes to legalization, our own community is often our own worst enemy.


I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately more times than not the most vocal and visible supporters of cannabis look like "typical stoner" stereotypes making us all easier to dismiss. 



> Do you think that kind of attack is really helping our cause? I see you going after Dan in various threads simply because he has a different opinion than you do. I don't agree with everything he posts but if you dismiss his points so easily, you're part of the problem too. You both have good points and points I disagree with as I'm sure both of you will agree/disagree with some of my points. If we all thought exactly the same things in exactly the same ways it'd be pretty damn boring.


Agreed. I'm more than happy to address post content only and not go after Ernest personally if he's willing to do so as well. I'll do my best not to bore this bored with issues between me and ernest and just stick with topics being discussed. Sorry about this everyone. I'll try to do better.


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## Ernst (Oct 27, 2011)

Dan Kone said:


> If I want you to speak for me I'll let you know.



I'm not speaking for you. I am speaking about you. You have already posted what I repeated here.


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## Dan Kone (Oct 27, 2011)

Ernst said:


> I'm not speaking for you. I am speaking about you.


How about we stick to discussing topics instead of engaging in personal attacks? If you recall last time you started doing that it didn't end well for you. So lets stick to discussing topics and not bore people with personal attacks ok?


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## ford442 (Oct 27, 2011)

i am a little worried that when all of the shops close down - all of the growers are going to have to sell completely black market making them a target for arrest..


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## Dan Kone (Oct 27, 2011)

ford442 said:


> i am a little worried that when all of the shops close down - all of the growers are going to have to sell completely black market making them a target for arrest..


Yep. and that's exactly what they want. More people to arrest.


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## ford442 (Oct 27, 2011)

it is just so contradictory to the basic idea that california is supplying medicine. now with one stoke of a pen you cut off hundreds of thousands of patients, making them go the black market too. it reminds of of when reagan kicked all of the mental patients out into the cali streets...


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