# The most over rated strains



## toxicity32 (Jun 25, 2012)

In this topic, we're gonna be talking about the most over rated strains on the market.

Personally my number 1 is White Widow. 

There's so much love for the White Widow all around the Internet yet is one of the worst strain i have ever smoked.

Unpopular strains are much better such as : Confidential Cheese, Ice Bomb, Sweet God or HammerHead


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## drolove (Jun 25, 2012)

well this thread is going to be nothing but full of people opinions. i happen to love white widow and keep at least 1 plant of it around at all times. maybe you got a bad batch? if not its just you man


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## vilify (Jun 25, 2012)

If you smoked the REAL Widow, then it was not a good pheno. Chances are you smoked a fake.

I understand it is decent, but I dont agree with all of the hype over the OG's


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## Allowishus Gooberhagen (Jun 25, 2012)

cheese and blueberry.


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## bullwinkle60 (Jun 25, 2012)

To tell you the truth I think Train wreck is overrated.I grew some out and was rather disappointed. Wasn't the kick ass weed I thought it would be.


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## toxicity32 (Jun 25, 2012)

vilify said:


> If you smoked the REAL Widow, then it was not a good pheno. Chances are you smoked a fake.
> 
> I understand it is decent, but I dont agree with all of the hype over the OG's


OG kush is my second most over rated strain.

Also, yes, i smoked the real White Widow from Green House Seed Co unless you're accusing them of selling fake seeds.


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## prebop (Jun 25, 2012)

Grape Stomper, Island Sweet Skunk and Durban Poison were disappointing to me. The Durban was fine I just don't like it.


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## drolove (Jun 25, 2012)

so you guys are saying BLACK WIDOW is crappy then?


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## canna_420 (Jun 25, 2012)

toxicity32 said:


> OG kush is my second most over rated strain.
> 
> Also, yes, i smoked the real White Widow from Green House Seed Co unless you're accusing them of selling fake seeds.


Absoloutly only one company sell Original GENETIC widow, green house may have the "Strain name" Not the parent stock.

Black widow is the true widow.


So yes White widow is over rated as it still relies on the cup winning tags it as with it.



By opinion most are over rated , if its an old school med user vs a not so often smoker then the opinion will be tottaly different


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## toxicity32 (Jun 25, 2012)

drolove said:


> so you guys are saying BLACK WIDOW is crappy then?


I never tried it and won't either.

All strains ending with Widow are banned in my book.


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## TheChosen (Jun 25, 2012)

toxicity32 said:


> Also, yes, i smoked the real White Widow from Green House Seed Co unless you're accusing them of selling fake seeds.



Uhhh yea that's exactly what people are saying. You fell victim to the name game, and half-assed stolen genetics. White Widow is their copy of Mr. Nice's Black Widow and like most if not all of what GHS offers is crap. I would try Seedsman White Widow or go for the original Black Widow. It may not be the most potent thing compared to today's hybrids, but it certainly not a strain that should be tossed in the hype barrel.

And an example to how GHS plays games with their strain names look at their Bubba Kush. They list the lineage as Bubblegum x Kush which is not true.


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## resinousflowers (Jun 25, 2012)

toxicity32 said:


> OG kush is my second most over rated strain.
> 
> Also, yes, i smoked the real White Widow from Green House Seed Co unless you're accusing them of selling fake seeds.


it isnt the real white widow,the real one is mr nice black widow.


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## drolove (Jun 25, 2012)

well not trying it because it has widow in the name is ignorant but what ever your missing out. my next grow will be all the white widow brands the black widow to see which one turns out best.


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## toxicity32 (Jun 25, 2012)

drolove said:


> well not trying it because it has widow in the name is ignorant.


There is an infinite number of strains yet so few time.

I'm only able to grow 4 different strains at once so i would rather not grow a strain mixed with one i didn't like in the first place.


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## cannabineer (Jun 25, 2012)

toxicity32 said:


> OG kush is my second most over rated strain.
> 
> Also, yes, i smoked the real White Widow from Green House Seed Co unless you're accusing them of selling fake seeds.


That's why it's important to mention not only the strain but the breeder. When I saw GHSC, I lol'd. Problem located. cn


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## toxicity32 (Jun 25, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> That's why it's important to mention not only the strain but the breeder. When I saw GHSC, I lol'd. Problem located. cn


Who are the best breeders in your opinion?

Gypsy Nirvana? lol'd


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## cannabineer (Jun 25, 2012)

toxicity32 said:


> Who are the best breeders in your opinion?
> 
> Gypsy Nirvana? lol'd


I'd like to know. So far, i have three in my Avoid column: GreenHouse, Barneys and Nirvana. I'm not saying no good ever comes of them, but I've read about (and with Nirvana, experienced) serious inconsistency and a prevalence of lousy phenos. I've also heard that Dutch Passion is selling bunk. 

The breeder I knew&loved was Bros Grimm. They are no more. I'm still looking for someone as good. cn


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## Scrotie Mcboogerballs (Jun 25, 2012)

toxicity32 said:


> Who are the best breeders in your opinion?
> 
> Gypsy Nirvana? lol'd


So far from a lot of things that i've seen; soma, serious and sensi.


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## stak (Jun 25, 2012)

toxicity32 said:


> There is an infinite number of strains yet so few time.
> 
> I'm only able to grow 4 different strains at once so i would rather not grow a strain mixed with one i didn't like in the first place.



You still don't get it. You did not smoke the real White Widow. Green House does not sell the real White Widow. The real White Widow has been renamed Black Widow due to so many companies coming out with a White Widow. If you want to claim you smoked the real White Widow then you will need to smoke Black Widow.


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## toxicity32 (Jun 25, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> I'd like to know. So far, i have three in my Avoid column: GreenHouse, Barneys and Nirvana. I'm not saying no good ever comes of them, but I've read about (and with Nirvana, experienced) serious inconsistency and a prevalence of lousy phenos. I've also heard that Dutch Passion is selling bunk.
> 
> The breeder I knew&loved was Bros Grimm. They are no more. I'm still looking for someone as good. cn


So you've never experienced with GreenHouse, only read about it?

To this day, I have tried 12 strains from them and all my seeds germinated.

You know, generally, people on the Internet don't know what they are doing.

For instance, i could say the best way to germinate seeds with a hard shell would be to put them into a match box with a fine grain sand paper and shake it 30 seconds to help the water penetrate.

If i said that, I would most likely be called an idiot because all their knowledge come from other ignorant people browsing forums all day long for information instead of reading a book about it written by a reputable person such as Jorge Cervantes.


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## cannabineer (Jun 25, 2012)

toxicity32 said:


> So you've never experienced with GreenHouse, only read about it?
> 
> To this day, I have tried 12 strains from them and all my seeds germinated.
> 
> ...


I read about it from people whom I trust ... experienced and dedicated growers. I trust them to penetrate the salesmanship surrounding (interestingly) the worst offenders in the pollen chucking trade.
I don't require you to believe me. 
As for Nirvana, I had good germination, good growth, decent bud set ... and lackluster product. I can't evaluate a breeder's strain until the cure is done. cn


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## racerboy71 (Jun 25, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> I'd like to know. So far, i have three in my Avoid column: GreenHouse, Barneys and Nirvana. I'm not saying no good ever comes of them, but I've read about (and with Nirvana, experienced) serious inconsistency and a prevalence of lousy phenos. I've also heard that Dutch Passion is selling bunk.
> 
> The breeder I knew&loved was Bros Grimm. They are no more. I'm still looking for someone as good. cn


 bro's grimm were the bee's knees... just think, without the bro's grimm, there would be no subcool...
there are plenty of really good breeders out there, then there are also tons of hacks that just take poly hybrids and toss them together w/out much more work... plenty of people throwing clone only's together and calling the offspring a strain and not doing much selection or stabalizing.. everyone looking to cash in on the name game..
soul from bro's grimm still makes some gear under the dutchgrown and they have a few nice sounding x's...
hmm, whom else.. can't leave out shanti and neville from mr nice... shanti is responsible for such strains as white widow, aka, black widow, the real deal, el nino, ssh, and many others...
ben dronkers from sensi has also put out a many legend.. bushy old grower, aka, bog, has put out a ton of fire and has a pretty good rep, things like blue moon rocks, boggle, boggle gum, and a few others..
some newer breeders gathering attention ... gage green, bodhi, the rev from kingdom organic seeds, kos, and a few others..


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## cannabineer (Jun 25, 2012)

Racerboy, would you know ... was bushy old grower the same cat as BushyOlderGrower on Overgrow? His was one of the names I paid attention to when I was active on that site. cn


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## racerboy71 (Jun 25, 2012)

toxicity32 said:


> So you've never experienced with GreenHouse, only read about it?
> 
> To this day, I have tried 12 strains from them and all my seeds germinated.
> 
> ...


 i have never eaten dog shit, but i trust it from those who have that it doesn't taste very well, therefore saving myself the hassle of having to try it myself..


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## racerboy71 (Jun 25, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Racerboy, would you know ... was bushy old grower the same cat as BushyOlderGrower on Overgrow? His was one of the names I paid attention to when I was active on that site. cn


 i was never around back in the og days cn, but i'd think that name would be pretty unique, so i would think it probably is one and the same.. not 100% on that though cn ..


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## racerboy71 (Jun 25, 2012)

toxicity32 said:


> So you've never experienced with GreenHouse, only read about it?
> 
> To this day, I have tried 12 strains from them and all my seeds germinated.
> 
> ...


 and i like jorge cervante's, but the dude is not a grower.. never was.. all he does is go around and talk to other growers and feature them in his books and videos.. none of the shit you see in his videos is grown by him.. 
and with the bible, it's just all regurtitated info he acquired over the years by having access to top notch growers.. it's a decent book, don't get me wrong, but it's got a lot of out of date info in it as well..


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## racerboy71 (Jun 25, 2012)

here's a link for you cn if you want to check out dutch grown..
http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/Brainfreeze/Dutchgrown_Seeds/


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## forestbud (Jun 25, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Racerboy, would you know ... was bushy old grower the same cat as BushyOlderGrower on Overgrow? His was one of the names I paid attention to when I was active on that site. cn





racerboy71 said:


> i was never around back in the og days cn, but i'd think that name would be pretty unique, so i would think it probably is one and the same.. not 100% on that though cn ..



Overgrow was around when I was in High School. Bud porn on that website was *OFF THE CHARTS*. The Shark Tank were legendary. Wish that it was preserved so I can ponder on the genetics during that era to comprehend each strain lineages more clearly. Priceless knowledge lost forever  It was approx 10 years ago circa 2001 - 2004ish when I was a lurker on overgrow. Yes it is the same BOG on overgrow that vends to seedbay dot com today. BOG used to live in Colorado. He now lives in Nor Cal.


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## racerboy71 (Jun 25, 2012)

forestbud said:


> Overgrow was around when I was in High School. Bud porn on that website was *OFF THE CHARTS*. The Shark Tank were legendary. Wish that it was preserved so I can ponder on the genetics during that era to comprehend each strain lineages more clearly. Priceless knowledge lost forever  It was approx 10 years ago circa 2001 - 2004ish when I was a lurker on overgrow. Yes it is the same BOG on overgrow that vends to seedbay dot com today. BOG used to live in Colorado. He now lives in Nor Cal.


 i was a slacker getting into the whole computer game.. well, honestly, i was deep in my addiction during those years, and i probably only would have sold my computer for more smack anyhoo's...
but yah, i wish i was around for og, sounds like a real lost jewel..


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## TogTokes (Jun 25, 2012)

i love cheese and blueberry lol.


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## althor (Jun 25, 2012)

racerboy71 said:


> and i like jorge cervante's, but the dude is not a grower.. never was.. all he does is go around and talk to other growers and feature them in his books and videos.. none of the shit you see in his videos is grown by him..
> and with the bible, it's just all regurtitated info he acquired over the years by having access to top notch growers.. it's a decent book, don't get me wrong, but it's got a lot of out of date info in it as well..



Yep, now that MJ is legalized in places we are seeing more advancements in growing in the past 20 years then in the previous 200 years.
Even now, most subjects are still hotly debated.


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## drolove (Jun 25, 2012)

toxicity32 said:


> There is an infinite number of strains yet so few time.
> 
> I'm only able to grow 4 different strains at once so i would rather not grow a strain mixed with one i didn't like in the first place.


well i can see that but to stay away from the name widow isnt right. they arent all the same and some of them are good. like i saw someone posted. nirvana has many phenos. i bought a 5 back of fems and they all grew a tad different but i saw no difference in bud itself


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## racerboy71 (Jun 25, 2012)

drolove said:


> well i can see that but to stay away from the name widow isnt right. they arent all the same and some of them are good. like i saw someone posted. nirvana has many phenos. i bought a 5 back of fems and they all grew a tad different but i saw no difference in bud itself


 you think nirvana are bad, check out some of subs work.. shit, you can get 3 different pheno's out of a 10 pack of beans ffs.. but what do you expect using polyhybrids on both ends of a cross??
and yah, being that cannabis is still illegal in most places, there is no such thing as copy writing a strain name.. how many different breeders all have a version of white widow for instance?? now how many of them do you think have access to the same parents shanti used to create the og ww?? none would be my guess, yet they all have a ww in name at least..
it's really up to the grower to do their homework in the seed game.. sometimes you may have to dig deep to find out who grow the og strain, but when you find that keeper, it's so worth it..


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## Geronimo420 (Jun 25, 2012)

toxicity32 said:


> In this topic, we're gonna be talking about the most over rated strains on the market. Personally my number 1 is White Widow. There's so much love for the White Widow all around the Internet yet is one of the worst strain i have ever smoked. Unpopular strains are much better such as : Confidential Cheese, Ice Bomb, Sweet God or HammerHead


 Yes White Widow or at least the numerous copy available is a highly over rated strain. The original breeder (Shantibaba) doesn't even use the name anymore due to these copycat. This was posted by subcool on an other tread : 	Now to clear up the story and myths that go around, due mainly to people in the industry(other seed companies) who are more interested in making money than giving information that is correct. Haze brothers worked on the Hazes and they did get to Sam and Nevil(owner of THE SEEDBANKand then Ben Dronkers retailed Nevils strains under the label of SENSI SEEDBANK after Nevil had some jail time in Australia .Nevil was the first seed bank or company to exist in Holland so his legendary strains such as Northern lights 5, Ultra skunk , Nl5 Haze, Early pearl , Early girl, Shiva Skunk.and so on became the basis for a lot of offspring seed companies that followed in the 90s. In fact companies like Dutch passion and Nirvana began by copying Nevils seeds from the F1 seedbut most of them would never say so as they are Dutch business men who see dollars first and not genetics.Sam and Nevil use to work a bit on strains together but when it was revealed that Sam and his crew of Americans in Holland all were part of informants for the DEA in America on a radio program in Holland they split to the UK to do other things. Sam never started or owned a seed company so his claim to all the strains that became famous years ago are not really warranted. He did however do a lot of work on Skunk and shared some seed with Nevil, but as you know for breeding you cannot just take any plant and make a strain like Greenhouse does nowadays. I was working in Australia on varieties like Mullumbimby madness and Thai and Columbia strains of sativas, as well as a lot of original Afghan stock. When I came to Holland in 1990 with my seed stock I linked up with Nevil , and used Arjans coffeeshops to introduce strains of cannabis and a little later the seed versions, but we never gave any of the plants to him.Arjan just sold seed produced by Nevil and myself. I co founded the Greenhouse Seed Company with Arjan in 1994(unlike Arjans claim it began in 1985 from him alonehe was angry that I sold my half share to him and left in 1998 to Switzerland and to open Mr Nice Seedbank with Nevil and Howardbut I was and still am the sole owner of MNS). In 1995 I came out with the seed version of White widow, then White Rhino 1996 and White Shark 1997el nino1998 , Himalayan gold and so on. Nevil and I co worked on some Haze strains during the early to mid 90s of which Super Silver Haze and Mango Haze were two strains that eventually came out of this work.The seed was sold under the Greenhouse Seed co label but Nevil held those plants and only sold the seed of these varieties as well as the weed version that won all those awards.So as to help Arjan sell the correct weed we set up our own independent grow rooms and produced those weeds and Arjan bought them all so as no other Dutch shop could compete. In those days the Greenhouse sold the correct weed and seed.But in 1998 when I won all the cups with Nevil(including Shantibabas Hash for best nederhash) I was givien a better offer by a Swiss group to set up a medical cannabis farm and distil oilso I sold my share to Arjan and left. A lot of people were shocked as they thought we were a solid unit but actually Arjan was over the top already with his success and his ego was too much to listen to and considering the Swiss thing had unlimited possibility where as Holland was stuck at being glorified dope dealers.as it still is today. Medical was more my interest. I took all my plants which made the seeds, especially my fathers and Nevil put all his plants with me so together we had a library of all genetics possible in the cannabis world. Nevil soon sold his part in one of the coffeeshops and had a big problem with Arjan toobut it took another year or two for them to split. Take a look at the High times Cannabis cup after 1998, so 1999 onwards.only while Nevil was there did they win with SSH, but that soon left with Nevil and Arjan even got caught cheating or trying to bribe people to win cupso was disqualified one year. A lot of stories exist about the Widow family and a lot of people had access to some of the female versions I left in Holland and soon began claiming to be the creature etc.but the original seed versions that won the first cup in 1995 came from my plants not anyone elses. Till today we have all the plants in original form. Franco, the Italian working for Arjan now does not even know the original plants as he did not come on the scene till after I left. I have nothing against him at all but he is paid by Arjan andis part of that show so believes what ever is feed to him. The GHSco tried to get things going by buying some seed Nev and I had for sale from a guy in Holland during this time. The guy called me up and told me Arjan bought a few thousand euros of this seed and a year later came out with seed under the well known names he had used previously. The growers could not know this until they grew it out and considering a lot of people never grew it before they did not even know what they were looking at and still do not.So many seed companies use the names like White widow but the genetics are all different. I wrote out the true origins of the plant and everyone copied that so it looks like everyone is selling the same genetics but it is they are all selling a name that sellsnothing more.Ask Franco to show you a photo of the original parents that make the widowhe cannot as he has never seen them.The Ghsco linked up with others like Ingemar who claims to be the widow breeder but he is only a grower and he never came out with a seed version until after I made it in 1995. But all the facts have become mixed and people try to confuse the grower by claiming things that no one else can prove to be correct or wrongas there are no rules in the seed game since all cannabis is actually not recognized in the official plant world as sub species due to it being drug related. So in actual fact no one owns nothingeven all the trademarked R after the names you see from various seed companies are all bullshit as they are not really able to protect any names as the plants do not officially existbut that is another story. In the late 90s I gave plants to Soma, and he began a seed company a year later toomixing his skunks to my males. This has occurred many times to me just look at the Spanish seed companies and 10 years agonone existed until I went there in 1995 and gave away 3 kilos of seed to growers via Canamo magazine.but that is another story too. Now the female seed story saved a lot of seed companies who never really breed seed as you only need a F1 female and chemicals.no need for a male..so go figure why companies like the Greenhouse or Dinafem etcset up selling female seed..the money the demand and not really needing skill with males are all prerequisites to make a female seed. It is therefore obvious to me why Arjan (who is a very marketing person nothing more) and Franco come out every year with a new name plantthey buy an original F1 seed and donk it with silver nitrates and there you have there productsbut now adays there are so many doing it it is incredible. Even companies have called me to tell me they feminised a clone of Critical mass in spain and call it critical plus.but say nothing more than thanks. So actually I really do not care any longer about other companies and what they say. We at MNS sell the real versions that won the original awards and made the legendsnowadays it is all confused and everyone is going feminisedexcept MNS. We exist so people who like to breed will be able to with the original true breed plants that come from selection and natural collection from traveling around the world. As they say, an empty barrel makes a louder noiseand we are full. ShantiBaba Just one example and I stated my opinion in my forum your welcome to yours that was the point. 	Attitudes don't go far with me!


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## BeaverHuntr (Jun 25, 2012)

vilify said:


> If you smoked the REAL Widow, then it was not a good pheno. Chances are you smoked a fake.
> 
> I understand it is decent, but I dont agree with all of the hype over the OG's


I'm a OG lover/Fan, lots of hype about "purps"


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## racerboy71 (Jun 25, 2012)

BeaverHuntr said:


> I'm a OG lover/Fan, lots of hype about "purps"


 yah, i agree, although every other strain in cali maybe called an og, i love og's, and i have yet to smoke one that didn't put me on my ass for the most part..
hyped up and annoying that there is an obama og, and justin bieber og, etc, etc, yes, but over rated?? i wouldn't go that far..


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## skunkd0c (Jun 25, 2012)

drolove said:


> well this thread is going to be nothing but full of people opinions. i happen to love white widow and keep at least 1 plant of it around at all times. maybe you got a bad batch? if not its just you man


Not sure what the alternative is to a thread full of opinions ? 

white widow gets my vote too .. boring strain 

peace


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## BeaverHuntr (Jun 25, 2012)

racerboy71 said:


> yah, i agree, although every other strain in cali maybe called an og, i love og's, and i have yet to smoke one that didn't put me on my ass for the most part..
> hyped up and annoying that there is an obama og, and justin bieber og, etc, etc, yes, but over rated?? i wouldn't go that far..



Yeah people are getting stupid with the OG's they made a OG the day Jay Z and Beyonce's baby was born called " Blue Ivy OG" They even have strains for Snoop Dogg I had some " Snoops Master Kush" it literally leaves you walking like a gangster or walking like Snoop Dogg... I prefer some of the older cuts like SFV OG or alien OG.. If you know your OG's then you wont have any problems smoking some....


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## BeaverHuntr (Jun 25, 2012)

Geronimo420 said:


> Yes White Widow or at least the numerous copy available is a highly over rated strain. The original breeder (Shantibaba) doesn't even use the name anymore due to these copycat. This was posted by subcool on an other tread : &#8226; Now to clear up the story and myths that go around, due mainly to people in the industry(other seed companies) who are more interested in making money than giving information that is correct. Haze brothers worked on the Haze&#8217;s and they did get to Sam and Nevil(owner of THE SEEDBANK&#8230;and then Ben Dronkers retailed Nevils strains under the label of SENSI SEEDBANK after Nevil had some jail time in Australia .Nevil was the first seed bank or company to exist in Holland so his legendary strains such as Northern lights 5, Ultra skunk , Nl5 Haze, Early pearl , Early girl, Shiva Skunk&#8230;.and so on became the basis for a lot of offspring seed companies that followed in the 90s. In fact companies like Dutch passion and Nirvana began by copying Nevils seeds from the F1 seed&#8230;but most of them would never say so as they are Dutch business men who see dollars first and not genetics&#8230;.Sam and Nevil use to work a bit on strains together but when it was revealed that Sam and his crew of Americans in Holland all were part of informants for the DEA in America on a radio program in Holland they split to the UK to do other things. Sam never started or owned a seed company so his claim to all the strains that became famous years ago are not really warranted. He did however do a lot of work on Skunk and shared some seed with Nevil, but as you know for breeding you cannot just take any plant and make a strain like Greenhouse does nowadays. I was working in Australia on varieties like Mullumbimby madness and Thai and Columbia strains of sativas, as well as a lot of original Afghan stock. When I came to Holland in 1990 with my seed stock I linked up with Nevil , and used Arjan&#8217;s coffeeshops to introduce strains of cannabis and a little later the seed versions, but we never gave any of the plants to him.Arjan just sold seed produced by Nevil and myself. I co founded the Greenhouse Seed Company with Arjan in 1994(unlike Arjan&#8217;s claim it began in 1985 from him alone&#8230;he was angry that I sold my half share to him and left in 1998 to Switzerland and to open Mr Nice Seedbank with Nevil and Howard&#8230;but I was and still am the sole owner of MNS). In 1995 I came out with the seed version of White widow, then White Rhino 1996 and White Shark 1997&#8230;el nino1998 , Himalayan gold and so on. Nevil and I co worked on some Haze strains during the early to mid 90s of which Super Silver Haze and Mango Haze were two strains that eventually came out of this work.The seed was sold under the Greenhouse Seed co label but Nevil held those plants and only sold the seed of these varieties as well as the weed version that won all those awards.So as to help Arjan sell the correct weed we set up our own independent grow rooms and produced those weeds and Arjan bought them all so as no other Dutch shop could compete. In those days the Greenhouse sold the correct weed and seed.But in 1998 when I won all the cups with Nevil(including Shantibaba&#8217;s Hash for best nederhash) I was givien a better offer by a Swiss group to set up a medical cannabis farm and distil oil&#8230;so I sold my share to Arjan and left. A lot of people were shocked as they thought we were a solid unit but actually Arjan was over the top already with his success and his ego was too much to listen to and considering the Swiss thing had unlimited possibility where as Holland was stuck at being glorified dope dealers&#8230;.as it still is today. Medical was more my interest. I took all my plants which made the seeds, especially my fathers and Nevil put all his plants with me so together we had a library of all genetics possible in the cannabis world. Nevil soon sold his part in one of the coffeeshops and had a big problem with Arjan too&#8230;but it took another year or two for them to split. Take a look at the High times Cannabis cup after 1998, so 1999 onwards&#8230;.only while Nevil was there did they win with SSH, but that soon left with Nevil and Arjan even got caught cheating or trying to bribe people to win cup&#8230;so was disqualified one year. A lot of stories exist about the Widow family and a lot of people had access to some of the female versions I left in Holland and soon began claiming to be the creature etc&#8230;.but the original seed versions that won the first cup in 1995 came from my plants not anyone else&#8217;s. Till today we have all the plants in original form. Franco, the Italian working for Arjan now does not even know the original plants as he did not come on the scene till after I left. I have nothing against him at all but he is paid by Arjan andis part of that show so believes what ever is feed to him. The GHSco tried to get things going by buying some seed Nev and I had for sale from a guy in Holland during this time. The guy called me up and told me Arjan bought a few thousand euros of this seed and a year later came out with seed under the well known names he had used previously. The growers could not know this until they grew it out and considering a lot of people never grew it before they did not even know what they were looking at and still do not.So many seed companies use the names like White widow but the genetics are all different. I wrote out the true origins of the plant and everyone copied that so it looks like everyone is selling the same genetics but it is they are all selling a name that sells&#8230;nothing more.Ask Franco to show you a photo of the original parents that make the widow&#8230;he cannot as he has never seen them.The Ghsco linked up with others like Ingemar who claims to be the widow breeder but he is only a grower and he never came out with a seed version until after I made it in 1995. But all the facts have become mixed and people try to confuse the grower by claiming things that no one else can prove to be correct or wrong&#8230;as there are no rules in the seed game since all cannabis is actually not recognized in the official plant world as sub species due to it being drug related. So in actual fact no one owns nothing&#8230;even all the trademarked R after the names you see from various seed companies are all bullshit as they are not really able to protect any names as the plants do not officially exist&#8230;but that is another story. In the late 90s I gave plants to Soma, and he began a seed company a year later too&#8230;mixing his skunks to my males. This has occurred many times to me just look at the Spanish seed companies and 10 years ago&#8230;none existed until I went there in 1995 and gave away 3 kilos of seed to growers via Canamo magazine&#8230;.but that is another story too. Now the female seed story saved a lot of seed companies who never really breed seed as you only need a F1 female and chemicals&#8230;.no need for a male&#8230;..so go figure why companies like the Greenhouse or Dinafem etc&#8230;set up selling female seed&#8230;..the money the demand and not really needing skill with males are all prerequisites to make a female seed. It is therefore obvious to me why Arjan (who is a very marketing person nothing more) and Franco come out every year with a new name plant&#8230;they buy an original F1 seed and donk it with silver nitrates and there you have there products&#8230;but now adays there are so many doing it it is incredible. Even companies have called me to tell me they feminised a clone of Critical mass in spain and call it critical plus&#8230;.but say nothing more than thanks. So actually I really do not care any longer about other companies and what they say. We at MNS sell the real versions that won the original awards and made the legends&#8230;nowadays it is all confused and everyone is going feminised&#8230;except MNS. We exist so people who like to breed will be able to with the original true breed plants that come from selection and natural collection from traveling around the world. As they say, an empty barrel makes a louder noise&#8230;and we are full. ShantiBaba Just one example and I stated my opinion in my forum your welcome to yours that was the point. &#8226; Attitudes don't go far with me!


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## skunkd0c (Jun 25, 2012)

BeaverHuntr said:


> Yeah people are getting stupid with the OG's they made a OG the day Jay Z and Beyonce's baby was born called " Blue Ivy OG" They even have strains for Snoop Dogg I had some " Snoops Master Kush" it literally leaves you walking like a gangster or walking like Snoop Dogg... I prefer some of the older cuts like SFV OG or alien OG.. If you know your OG's then you wont have any problems smoking some....


its been ridiculous for a long time .. if you look at attitude and look at what their best selling strains are, you can see how the "hype sells so well"
fem seeds og kush, cheese, whatever is the latest cup winner, tangerine dream etc will be the best selling seeds at that time.. 
it would seem most folk buying seeds are new growers following the trends, so breeders are giving them what they want "hype" lol 

now its green crack 
girl scout cookies
casey jones, crosses etc etc
what will be next months hipster flavor of the month .. or was that last months LOL ??

peace


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## BeaverHuntr (Jun 25, 2012)

skunkd0c said:


> its been ridiculous for a long time .. if you look at attitude and look at what their best selling strains are, you can see how the "hype sells so well"
> fem seeds og kush, cheese, whatever is the latest cup winner, tangerine dream etc will be the best selling seeds at that time..
> it would seem most folk buying seeds are new growers following the trends, so breeders are giving them what they want "hype" lol
> 
> ...


Yeah I prefer clone hunting from legit, non pest infestation having dispensaries.....

GDP ( Grand Daddy Purp ) is another one thats been used and abused, they have like 20 different cuts of GDP...You can still find the original " Kens Cut" at certain places in Cali.


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## Beeb Beebman (Jun 25, 2012)

BeaverHuntr said:


> Yeah I prefer clone hunting from legit, non pest infestation having dispensaries.....
> 
> GDP ( Grand Daddy Purp ) is another one thats been used and abused, they have like 20 different cuts of GDP...You can still find the original " Kens Cut" at certain places in Cali.


 Totally agree with that. The "purps" is just for bag appeal if you ask me. There probably are some really kill purple strains out there, but i'm pretty much over it. I find myself taking a liking to landraces and such. Thinks like indicas from the Ketama valley or Mazar Kush. World of Seeds has some pretty cool offerings. I've found some very nice genetics on Cannazon, things that were quite far from your regular "xxxx kush" or "xxxx cheese" or "something-berry". I feel that some breeders are working with better gene pools than others, while there are some who are just in it for a quick buck. Just my .02


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## hazey grapes (Jun 25, 2012)

ANYTHING stinky or couchlocking. it all sucks


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## yesum (Jun 25, 2012)

racerboy71 said:


> i have never eaten dog shit, but i trust it from those who have that it doesn't taste very well, therefore saving myself the hassle of having to try it myself..


 Haha! Thanks for the laugh.


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## Grojak (Jun 25, 2012)

Thank's for beating me to it Racer... Online or at least on RIU there is only one King of overrated.

Anything TGA is overrated... pheno selection is a "breeders" job, not the consumer. I get it you can variation with every pack of seeds by anyone, but slight variation, not 4 completely different plants. How confusing must it be for a newbie to start with 3 strains of TGA gear than go to something stable (say a Sensi, Some, Serious bean), they may even be confused and thank that the latter companies have bad beans because there wasn't variation, just one solid dank ass pheno.


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## racerboy71 (Jun 25, 2012)

Grojak said:


> Thank's for beating me to it Racer... Online or at least on RIU there is only one King of overrated.
> 
> Anything TGA is overrated... pheno selection is a "breeders" job, not the consumer. I get it you can variation with every pack of seeds by anyone, but slight variation, not 4 completely different plants. How confusing must it be for a newbie to start with 3 strains of TGA gear than go to something stable (say a Sensi, Some, Serious bean), they may even be confused and thank that the latter companies have bad beans because there wasn't variation, just one solid dank ass pheno.


 lol, yah, i try to keep my sub bashing to a limited few threads and between my friends and all.. most of them know not to even mention his name around me, lol...
but i agree, pheno hunting should be up to the breeder.. they should pick the best one or two from a line and work on stabilizing them before releasing a strain.. 3 or 4 pheno's out of a 10 pack of beans is completely unacceptable to me in this day and age..
just my $.02, and what do i know??


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## Clankie (Jun 26, 2012)

racerboy71 said:


> lol, yah, i try to keep my sub bashing to a limited few threads and between my friends and all


Well, I don't mean to be a n00b, but I do not have a lot of experience with seed banks. For years, I got clones from a guy who bought all his stock from Sensi and Mr Nice, so it wasn't a particular issue. However, with my most recent attitude order I got 4 seeds from TGA with my freebies, and so I'm a little curious as to what the hate is about. In reviewing their website, I noticed that most of their stock does come from hybrids of already hybridized plants; which seems a little funky to me, but that does seem to be what the 'cool kids' are doing. Do they not stabilize at all? I am used to expecting two or three phenos out of the same seedstock, but that is mostly out of stock bred by myself or my friends, and frankly I have never had a pheno that couldn't be coaxed into producing a quality yield, as long as the parents were of suitable quality. Of course, we always grew much less hybridized plants than seem to contribute to most of subcool's strains. Do I run a real chance of getting crap from the TGA seed? I got regular seeds, and if I can't be assured of the male's quality (with only 2 seeds each I might not get a female) I don't want to bother with collecting pollen from it. 

On a note related to the topic: I live in Colorado, where MMJ is legal, and in my opinion it has nearly completely ruined my enjoyment of the cannabis industry. The market is flooded with cheap shit, grown in giant warehouses, and usually sorely lacking in flushing. There are hundreds of dispensaries passing fake herb and clones off as other strains, all the while making it harder and more expensive to patients who actually need quality medicine for medicinal reasons (such as my patients) to gain access to the strains they need at actual medicinal quality. So as far as a strain being overrated, I don't think that's so much a problem in my area as a general lowering in quality, "walmartization" if you will, of the whole cannabis community. Quality bud is quality bud, and it all has different effects depending on what you are looking for.


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## teoborg (Jun 26, 2012)

toxicity32 said:


> OG kush is my second most over rated strain.
> 
> Also, yes, i smoked the real White Widow from Green House Seed Co unless you're accusing them of selling fake seeds.


Well, the real WW is bred by Shantibaba. Also the seeds by the GreenHouseSeeds aren't the most stable. Check around..


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## bluntmassa1 (Jun 26, 2012)

subcool has good weed but not stable strains some breed and some just make good crosses. breeders grow 50-200 seeds at a time for pheno selection tga dosen't have a big warehouse like some of the more advanced breeders I can build a grow room just as nice as subcools if you watch the weed nerd on youtube you will see I don't dout he grows better than me but you can make crosses just as good with a few years practice and if you work on a strain for years you can make it stable tga has around 20 strains and it takes a few years to stablize a strain judging by his breeding room hes a pollen chucker plain and simple and all his strains are the same price which tells me their all just as good and you need to go pheno hunting in all his strains don't get me wrong you can still get great phenos from him but you can also find a great pheno on your own cross 


Clankie said:


> Well, I don't mean to be a n00b, but I do not have a lot of experience with seed banks. For years, I got clones from a guy who bought all his stock from Sensi and Mr Nice, so it wasn't a particular issue. However, with my most recent attitude order I got 4 seeds from TGA with my freebies, and so I'm a little curious as to what the hate is about. In reviewing their website, I noticed that most of their stock does come from hybrids of already hybridized plants; which seems a little funky to me, but that does seem to be what the 'cool kids' are doing. Do they not stabilize at all? I am used to expecting two or three phenos out of the same seedstock, but that is mostly out of stock bred by myself or my friends, and frankly I have never had a pheno that couldn't be coaxed into producing a quality yield, as long as the parents were of suitable quality. Of course, we always grew much less hybridized plants than seem to contribute to most of subcool's strains. Do I run a real chance of getting crap from the TGA seed? I got regular seeds, and if I can't be assured of the male's quality (with only 2 seeds each I might not get a female) I don't want to bother with collecting pollen from it.
> 
> On a note related to the topic: I live in Colorado, where MMJ is legal, and in my opinion it has nearly completely ruined my enjoyment of the cannabis industry. The market is flooded with cheap shit, grown in giant warehouses, and usually sorely lacking in flushing. There are hundreds of dispensaries passing fake herb and clones off as other strains, all the while making it harder and more expensive to patients who actually need quality medicine for medicinal reasons (such as my patients) to gain access to the strains they need at actual medicinal quality. So as far as a strain being overrated, I don't think that's so much a problem in my area as a general lowering in quality, "walmartization" if you will, of the whole cannabis community. Quality bud is quality bud, and it all has different effects depending on what you are looking for.


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## bluntmassa1 (Jun 26, 2012)

ya shanti took the mother and father when he left green house and opened mr. nice franco's never even seen the parent plants they just recreated it


teoborg said:


> Well, the real WW is bred by Shantibaba. Also the seeds by the GreenHouseSeeds aren't the most stable. Check around..


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## Sir.Ganga (Jun 26, 2012)

teoborg said:


> Well, the real WW is bred by Shantibaba. Also the seeds by the GreenHouseSeeds aren't the most stable. Check around..


Well I have dealt with GHS now for almost 10 years and in all the strains I have tried...I have never had a problem and have produced some really dank crops. I would recommend them to anyone and if you believe all the hype and bullshit then you fell for it and their tatics worked. WWF wrestling kinda runs the same way.


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## FR33MASON (Jun 26, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> subcool has good weed but not stable strains some breed and some just make good crosses. breeders grow 50-200 seeds at a time for pheno selection tga dosen't have a big warehouse like some of the more advanced breeders I can build a grow room just as nice as subcools if you watch the weed nerd on youtube you will see I don't dout he grows better than me but you can make crosses just as good with a few years practice and if you work on a strain for years you can make it stable tga has around 20 strains and it takes a few years to stablize a strain judging by his breeding room hes a pollen chucker plain and simple and all his strains are the same price which tells me their all just as good and you need to go pheno hunting in all his strains don't get me wrong you can still get great phenos from him but you can also find a great pheno on your own cross


For someone like me, TGA is a great thing as I only have enough room to flower 4 plants and I know what I like so TGA actually helps streamline that issue of finding a pheno that I like.


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## SketchyGrower (Jun 26, 2012)

Sir.Ganga said:


> Well I have dealt with GHS now for almost 10 years and in all the strains I have tried...I have never had a problem and have produced some really dank crops. I would recommend them to anyone and if you believe all the hype and bullshit then you fell for it and their tatics worked. WWF wrestling kinda runs the same way.


GHS is a joke and I "have " run them...

Mr.Nice,GGG,TGA,RD,Bodhi,Next generation,CV and Alphakronik would run circles around any GHS strain..


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## beardietree (Jun 26, 2012)

GHS is as is Barneys GOOD luck with that shit


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## beardietree (Jun 26, 2012)

You do not know what you are missing.


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## bluntmassa1 (Jun 26, 2012)

I don't think greenhouse is that bad mr. nice is definetlty better than green house imo but I've seen some grows of super lemon haze and it looked damn good and I've heard good things about lemon skunk their far from the king though


SketchyGrower said:


> GHS is a joke and I "have " run them...
> 
> Mr.Nice,GGG,TGA,RD,Bodhi,Next generation,CV and Alphakronik would run circles around any GHS strain..


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## TheChosen (Jun 26, 2012)

lol far from the king they're more like the Court Jester because Arjan and Franco are a fucking joke.


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## (818)MedicineMan (Jun 26, 2012)

I tend to think most of the strains and crosses that came out in the last 10 or so years are hype. I guess I am too old school. There are not many, if any strains that came out recently that will stand the test of time like NL, Skunk and WW etc. People are into the flavor of the day. 

OG has got to be the most over rated stuff along with TGA.


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## skunkd0c (Jun 26, 2012)

some of the best keepers i have found over the years have come from strains that showed phenotype diversity 
it would be nice if breeders were honest about the strains they are selling 
if a strain is known to be uniform because it is an IBL or has been stabilized via other breeding methods 
this does not mean all offspring will be like twins/clones, they will share some similar traits 
breeders overplay this and pretend the plants will be more uniform offspring than they actualy are

the most uniform plant i have grown in recent times over the last 5 years or so, is belladona from paridise seeds
i had 4 females and they all looked identical, and tasted the same. however this is without doubt the worst strain i have grown perhaps ever
maybe some of the seedsman junk could be worse, it had zero flavor very dull high, and very little resin, it was a low quality skunk strain 

as for subcool, i have only ever grown "the flav" i did not like it, and it was nothing like the descriptions on his site 
however i only had 2 females, and one of these plants was a very nice plant, good yield good potency good nuggets , but not a flavor i like (tasted like a very strong lemon haze) 

its a bit like going into a restaurant and ordering some food, and receiving a totaly differnt meal to the one you ordered, you are hungry so you eat it anyway and find the meal was still good but it was not what you asked for .. i get why folk are not happy
.. for me growing most strains is like this, breeders are just simply not honest about their strains but as long as you get something half decent folk are not likely to complain too much . maybe that's how most breeders see it 

on my most recent run, eisbaer from alphakronic this is nothing like its descriptions, it has 2 very different females, both of which i will not keep 

blues from ugorg, this is part of a cubing project and is reportably 87.5% (blues/livers) and 12.5% dj shorts blueberry 
from the 5 females i have, only 1 is a keeper, they have similar smell but all have totaly differnt flavours, atleast 2 main phenotypes that seem split 50/50
so it is not as uniform as the 87.5% would suggest, still it has given me a great keeper that i am very happy with 

i like to treat it like a lottery, or maybe a lucky dip, you never know what the genetics will bring when you plant your seeds 
if you want uniformity, just grow cuttings that other people have collected and decided are good for you 

peace


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## cotchept (Jun 26, 2012)

OG Kush has been around for 15 years in Cali. It's a little more than a hype or a flavor of the month thing. And to whoever said Trainwreck, you must have grown the GHS variety because the cut is fire. 

Overrated: 

Cheese - Tasty but weak
Sour Diesel - Tasty but the high last 30 mins max
Anything from Barney's or Greenhouse. I would never give those companies my money.


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## skunkd0c (Jun 26, 2012)

cotchept said:


> OG Kush has been around for 15 years in Cali. It's a little more than a hype or a flavor of the month thing. And to whoever said Trainwreck, you must have grown the GHS variety because the cut is fire.
> 
> Overrated:
> 
> ...


OG kush may well be a good strain, there are many good strains each person has their own tastes and preferences 
however, the hype that has been created around OG kush is ridiculous .. and noobs buy into this hype 
these types of people are known as "scene whores" or hipsters, they need to follow trends , 
they are not aware that a great plant is any plant that you are satisfied with 

peace


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## auldone (Jun 26, 2012)

skunkd0c said:


> OG kush may well be a good strain, there are many good strains each person has their own tastes and preferences however, the hype that has been created around OG kush is ridiculous .. and noobs buy into this hype these types of people are known as "scene whores" or hipsters, they need to follow trends , they are not aware that a great plant is any plant that you are satisfied with peace


 funny how the "hype" OG Kush brought is what brought Kush strains to the forefront.


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## pabuds (Jun 26, 2012)

im new here, but been growing for 37 years in pa outdoors only.ive been growing the same 3 strains for 20 some years and im done in august rock hard buds no mold some years 2 week of September no later its all in the weather that year. my plants are no taller than 3 or 4 feet tall and get 1/4 lb dry weight rock hard buds. this year im adding 2 more strians but got 2 or 3 years of work to get them to do what my other strains do no mold and rock hard buds with 1/4 lb dry weight per plant and keeping them 3 to 4 feet tall and done in the end of august or 2 week sept. i see alot of people every year im growing this strian and that strian but they dont wont mold and they wont weight well thats not how to get that.if you wont weight rock hard buds and no mold plants you got work and time ahead of you once your there the work is over and you got the best buds in town, and done early,find some strains you like and stay with them and work with them then you will get what your looking for.you got to remember one thing when you buy seeds from a seed bank remember your not getting what they say from that strain for one the strain was made some were else Latitude ,Altitude,Climate and food this has alot to do with the strain you got to ADAPT that strain to your soil ,climate,laitude,altitude,and food for a couple of years then you will have a good strain no mold rock hard buds and weight.you got to hybryd the strain and seed it 100% female seeds then your good to go any ? just ask good luck happy growing i got to go got to put out my last 15 babies i just started thats right platting babies from seed end of june they will be done no later then 2 week of sept.

same 3 strains 20 some years
Panama Red
Hindu Kush 
Blueberry


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## chongsbuddy (Jun 26, 2012)

i could not understand that last thread at all.......are you stoned?lol


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## Scrotie Mcboogerballs (Jun 26, 2012)

chongsbuddy said:


> i could not understand that last thread at all.......are you stoned?lol


nobody does drugs here. YOU must be confused. lol


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## GUN1 (Jun 26, 2012)

Tga says on the packet that their strains contain recessive genetics. If the seed are F1 crosses then you won't see any of the recessive genes till you breed them back to each other. 
From what I've seen most breeders are selling F1 crosses. 
They give you the genes and you have to do some work to stabilize the best mix of genetics over a few generations to produce the phenotype your chasing. 
If there are multiple genetics the numbers of phenotypes will increase and the chances of getting the homozygous form of all the genetics in one plant will vastly increase. Which is why certain cuts are so prized and why some breeders will say you could get that "one in a thousand holy grail" because the chances of all those different genes being produced in one plant will be just that.
If they sold say the golden ticket pheno homogenized then everyone would have caught up to the years of work it has taken them to get that pheno and they would lose their edge.
Thats my understanding of it anyway???


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## a mongo frog (Jun 26, 2012)

vilify said:


> If you smoked the REAL Widow, then it was not a good pheno. Chances are you smoked a fake.
> 
> I understand it is decent, but I dont agree with all of the hype over the OG's


u dont under stand the hype about og kush,or fire og? 
u must of smoked a fake.


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## Clankie (Jun 26, 2012)

skunkd0c said:


> peace


Them talkin sounds you made sound right purdy to me.
I dunno if I'm the only person who does this, I am known for my uncommon amount of patience, but what I do when I grow a plant from seed is I grow it until it is mature enough to flower, and then I cut clones from it, right before I flower it. After cutting some clones (aerocloner made with big airstones and a good pump + olivias = 100% strike rate in 7-14 days) I induce flowering, if the plant is male I get rid of all but one clone, segregate, harvest pollen, and destroy. If it is female, I revert it to veg and when the clones are rooted I integrate them into my system. Then, based on the quality of the first clone batch, I either keep or flower the mother plant and keep in veg or destroy any male clones I have from the strain. Of course, the hybrids I have grown from seed that I made or obtained are limited to Kali Mist x Super Silver Haze and Kali Mist x Blueberry, Island Sweet Skunk x Durban Poison, and ISS x Sour Diesel, and I grew some Black Domina x Dutch Dragon and Ice x Dutch Dragon that were bred by a friend; and I can honestly say that the only disappointing thing about any of those was that all of the Kali Mist cross phenos except for one of the Blue crosses took for-fucking-ever to finish flowering. I have only recently started growing a variety of indica dominant strains, since going legit and medicinal and whatnot, because I take that pretty seriously. Personally, I don't buy into hype surrounding strains, because I know that anybody can take a good strain and fuck it up. Herb should be judged by its crystallinity, its taste, and its texture; not by whatever name joe grow has stuck on his buds. That said, I know good breeding when I see it, and as I am restocking by breeding supply, the next two strains I get will be Medicine Man and Black Widow from Mr. Nice, and I'm thinking of getting the indoor mix from Sensi. On a related note, 3.5 days in and breakin the dirt are Satori and Point of No Return from Mandala, Darkstar from TH Seeds, and the Chernobyl from TGA.


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## BA142 (Jun 26, 2012)

toxicity32 said:


> OG kush is my second most over rated strain.
> 
> Also, yes, i smoked the real White Widow from Green House Seed Co unless you're accusing them of selling fake seeds.



I've smoked pounds of high quality stuff over the past 5-6 years....the best batch of any weed i've ever picked up/grew was OG Kush. Second best was a cut of AK47 my buddy had that produced the biggest trich heads i've ever seen...

It's all subjective though. One mans trash is another mans treasure...


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## pabuds (Jun 27, 2012)

*well said gun1* i grew a Barneys Pineapple Chunk last year and cloned 10 clones then took mother plant and sprayed her with Colloidal silver to produce male flowers/pollen sacks then Collected that pollen and pollenate the ten clones this year i started the seeds and got 3 def.phenotypes ,one is a skunk,2 some cheese smelling plant,3 a pineapple plant,all def,looking


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## cary schellie (Jun 27, 2012)

All of barneys farms strains overrated, funny how they say all there strains are THC 25% and up


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## pabuds (Jun 27, 2012)

*cary schellie *i agree barneys farm is overrated 25% thc bullshit maybe 13% is more like it but i dident buy it for that i bought it to get new phenotype pure strain. as i said i grew a Barneys Pineapple Chunk last year and cloned 10 clones then took mother plant and sprayed her with Colloidal silver to produce male flowers/pollen sacks then Collected that pollen and pollenate the ten clones this year i started the seeds and got 3 def.phenotypes ,one is a skunk,2 some cheese smelling plant,3 a pineapple plant,all def,looking.the skunk strain that came out of it looks *promising* pure indica and has a skunky hash smell to it is all ready showing hairs is only june i have 3 old school strains ftom the 70s very pure strains and very strong 2 hits your wasted,same 3 strains 20 some years
Panama Red
Hindu Kush 
Blueberry
i just need to add two more strains to my *Collections *and the skunk hash plant looks to be one of them


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## Animalchin (Jun 30, 2012)

cary schellie said:


> All of barneys farms strains overrated, funny how they say all there strains are THC 25% and up


Yeh i followed the hype of Barneys Farm Tangerine Dream, 4 out of 5 grew and flowered but was just plain shit smoke. The seed I got free was way better Cotton candy every one loved it, Ive now got Great White Shark in the tent from Green House Seeds which I have just read is shit to, oh the joy of farming.


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## Topo (Jun 30, 2012)

BeaverHuntr said:


>


LMFAO...I'm still looking for my missing ass...


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jun 30, 2012)

OG kush. the greatest rehash of all time


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## The Chemist Brothers (Jun 30, 2012)

so far- Super lemon haze, everything else has been about as good as i thought it would be, after it's first win at the htcc i thought it was a fluke, i then saw it win again???? so i got the seeds and grew them out, not much i can say about the strain, it smells like lemon, it can be pretty finicky and yields pretty good, no way is it a cc winner IMO, "what the fuck were the judges smoking?"


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## racerboy71 (Jun 30, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> OG kush. the greatest rehash of all time


 really?/ i can't imagine calling any og over rated.. over hyped, sure as shit yes, but over rated?? idk about all that, every og i've grown has been some of the best smoke i have grown.. 
dr greenthumb's og ghost cut, number one or 2 smoke thus far, larry og from cali con, very potent as well.. 
og's have always delivered for me in all dpts, stone, taste and smell..


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## The Chemist Brothers (Jun 30, 2012)

funniest shit is, majority of my favorite tga strains were not bred by subcool, chernobyl and qrazy train were not bred by him, nor were jillybean and agent orange. so i guess hating on the guy for providing polyhybrids is what the cool kids are doing these days.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jun 30, 2012)

The Chemist Brothers said:


> funniest shit is, majority of my favorite tga strains were not bred by subcool, chernobyl and qrazy train were not bred by him, nor were jillybean and agent orange. so i guess hating on the guy for providing polyhybrids is what the cool kids are doing these days.


 1. i know people rail on subcool for making polyhybrids, but newbs would do well to start off growing subcool seeds, you can learn alot about phenotype selection just growing a 10 pack of his better strains (vortex, Jillybean or Querkle). i didn't even know he existed untill 2 years ago, tga is oversaturated on rollitup since he partakes in the forums here and publicizes his gear on his own forum(wtf? how do you get your own forum?) but you can get alot of info on his gear just from reading this site, or from all his testers on riu or greenpassion (yes he does test his gear publicly like any good breeder should do, has it available online for all to see, if you dont like what you see, you probably wont like what you grow).i usually grow out 5-6 different strains at once, so variation is always gonna be in my grow room, might as well make that variance come from- selected cuttings/well acknowledged parents. 

its a bit fishy that people who haven't spent a penny on his hybrids can call it over rated... unless they smoke the stuff from second hand source.​


racerboy71 said:


> really?/ i can't imagine calling any og over rated.. over hyped, sure as shit yes, but over rated?? idk about all that, every og i've grown has been some of the best smoke i have grown..
> dr greenthumb's og ghost cut, number one or 2 smoke thus far, larry og from cali con, very potent as well..
> og's have always delivered for me in all dpts, stone, taste and smell..


i agree that there are some breeders (2 in particular on the attitude) that specialize in dank og cuttings and make them available in seed form, i grew the larry og but i didnt keep it because it hermed on me later in flower, great bud though. the blackwater i had from the same breeder was slightly better overall and did not herm.


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## |B3RNY| (Jun 30, 2012)

racerboy71 said:


> you think nirvana are bad, check out some of subs work.. shit, you can get 3 different pheno's out of a 10 pack of beans ffs.. but what do you expect using polyhybrids on both ends of a cross??
> and yah, being that cannabis is still illegal in most places, there is no such thing as copy writing a strain name.. how many different breeders all have a version of white widow for instance?? now how many of them do you think have access to the same parents shanti used to create the og ww?? none would be my guess, yet they all have a ww in name at least..
> it's really up to the grower to do their homework in the seed game.. sometimes you may have to dig deep to find out who grow the og strain, but when you find that keeper, it's so worth it..


Copyright wouldn't apply to the strains, but this is wrong. Look it up, strains can be trademarked, as AK47 from Serious Seeds is trademarked... hence, no other breeders sell AK47, but can only sell hybrids of it or "Easyryder" (the AK47 X Lowryder cross.) Serious seeds are of the few breeders worthy of a trademark if you ask me.. along with Soma, Sub and Sensi. I, myself, like Greenhouse and Nirvana as well... everything I've grown has been great so far, even bagseeds come out quite 'dank' in the hands of a good grower (I'm not saying a good grower can turn a bunk strain into chronic but you get the picture.) Anyways, yea... AK47 really is trademarked, my pack was also the only strain I've ever had that came with a serial number, a guarantee and a phone call from Serious Seeds, hahaha.


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## racerboy71 (Jun 30, 2012)

|B3RNY| said:


> Copyright wouldn't apply to the strains, but this is wrong. Look it up, strains can be trademarked, as AK47 from Serious Seeds is trademarked... hence, no other breeders sell AK47, but can only sell hybrids of it or "Easyryder" (the AK47 X Lowryder cross.) Serious seeds are of the few breeders worthy of a trademark if you ask me.. along with Soma, Sub and Sensi. I, myself, like Greenhouse and Nirvana as well... everything I've grown has been great so far, even bagseeds come out quite 'dank' in the hands of a good grower (I'm not saying a good grower can turn a bunk strain into chronic but you get the picture.) Anyways, yea... AK47 really is trademarked, my pack was also the only strain I've ever had that came with a serial number, a guarantee and a phone call from Serious Seeds, hahaha.


 ok, then how can you explain white widow?? how many breeders sell a ww?? ah, pretty much half of them today offer a white widow.. it's so bad, the original breeder had to change the name from white widow to black widow..


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## racerboy71 (Jun 30, 2012)

The Chemist Brothers said:


> funniest shit is, majority of my favorite tga strains were not bred by subcool, chernobyl and qrazy train were not bred by him, nor were jillybean and agent orange. so i guess hating on the guy for providing polyhybrids is what the cool kids are doing these days.



that's too funny.. you say how the good strains from tga aren't even breed by sub, yet he's some genius in the same sentence for the most part..

and i don't know about being a cool kid as it seems 99% of the people around here suck sub's dick so hard it's not even funny.. ever seen the size of that weed nerd thread?? more lovers than haters of sub on this forum at least...


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 1, 2012)

right tga is by far the most over rated half the people on this site are in love with sub. I got shit from a few dumbasses for saying subcools not great. he makes some good crosses but hes not a breeder he don't grow enough weed for good selections he showed his breeding room on the weed nerd and he just makes a few crosses with the same males which means hes got probally 4 or more female strains and spreads the pollen over them all and its a small room. he has over 20 strains from a small room. nothing like the warehouses shantibaba or any other good breeder has. subcools breeding room looks like a bedroom. guy needs to take some of that money yall fan boys keep giving him and buy a warehouse in spain or I think switzerland where breedings ok. even the calli connection owns shit in europe.


racerboy71 said:


> that's too funny.. you say how the good strains from tga aren't even breed by sub, yet he's some genius in the same sentence for the most part..
> 
> and i don't know about being a cool kid as it seems 99% of the people around here suck sub's dick so hard it's not even funny.. ever seen the size of that weed nerd thread?? more lovers than haters of sub on this forum at least...


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## lahadaextranjera (Jul 1, 2012)

|B3RNY| said:


> Copyright wouldn't apply to the strains, but this is wrong. Look it up, strains can be trademarked, as AK47 from Serious Seeds is trademarked... hence, no other breeders sell AK47, but can only sell hybrids of it or "Easyryder" (the AK47 X Lowryder cross.) Serious seeds are of the few breeders worthy of a trademark if you ask me.. along with Soma, Sub and Sensi. I, myself, like Greenhouse and Nirvana as well... everything I've grown has been great so far, even bagseeds come out quite 'dank' in the hands of a good grower (I'm not saying a good grower can turn a bunk strain into chronic but you get the picture.) Anyways, yea... AK47 really is trademarked, my pack was also the only strain I've ever had that came with a serial number, a guarantee and a phone call from Serious Seeds, hahaha.



I have to agree here, Simon from SS really knows his stuff and is very personable in real life. He is a true geneticist. Some of the others, Arjan from GH Seeds, come across as businessman, There's a load of Spanish Seed Co's here and they are quite dedicated (Eva Seeds, Genethiks etc) however, there seem to be too many new Seed Co's opening up selling the same strains and crosses which makes the majority of growers revert back to the original strains from Original Dutch Co's.

Also; I love the argument about who started the original Cheese !!


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## canna_420 (Jul 1, 2012)

Its not copyright that prints out a serial number its good customer support. Its their to be able to lock down batch number to the T.
Some breeders put dates on their seeds others dont, some change their labels every now and then to remind people these are fresher.


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## hazey grapes (Jul 1, 2012)

hey... if ANYONE knows of a trippier or otherwise better strain than TGA's jack's cleaner 2 and that ISN'T named after murder which is an issue with me, deal with it, and that flowers close to the 9 week range, i'd love to hear all about it. is sannies' jack herer trippier? cool, that'll be my next sample. 

i do agree that TGA does have a fanatical, almost cultish following, but as far as i'm concerned, his JC2 is the best bud i've ever smoked that wasn't grown outdoors in california and that i can put a name to. i smoked a really trippy bud a couple years ago that i'm positive was columbian gold, or at least a hybrid as it had the same grassy pine cone kind of odor purveyors of the "bag appeal myth" would dismiss (made me fucking happy just to taste it!) and that had a similar trippy buzz that was too much when i got talked into clearing a huge chamber and woofed, got nauseous with light spinning effects, and more than anything, had to get the fuck out of there because i couldn't take listening to the heavy metal from one of my hosts playing guitar hero.

anyone that would dare call JC2 schwag either doesn't like getting high, or is spoiled rotten smoking 17 week IBLs. i'm not a TGA fan because he's popular, he's my fave because JC2 gave me more trippy high than anything else i've smoked since the mid 80s and i really loved how touchy/feely it was like the yucky tasting, but totally fun high of diesel tasting onyx.

what's better than JC2 that i can do indoors that isn't a celebration of the abomination or murder, doesn't taste like the abomination of petroleum, doesn't smell like a dead skunk & that's easy to do indoors around 9 weeks? come on TGA haters... tell what i should try, and if it truly is better, then i'll have a new favorite breeder


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## cannabineer (Jul 1, 2012)

I will admit to curiosity about Rare Dankness' Somali Taxi Ride. But I'm not a big fan of Pheno Treasure Hunt. cn


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## hazey grapes (Jul 1, 2012)

yeah... who has the time and space to test 100+ plants for one that's even better when a truly good strain should have awesome to awesomer plants. i was impressed with my joey weed C99s in that regard. i had tall phenos and shorties too, but the smoke was consistent enough that nothing seemed radically different to me. i guess just getting high without getting stoned is "good enough" for me, but some strains are definitely better than others


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 2, 2012)

I'm sure nevilles haze is way trippier and stronger than jc2 and of course its not schwag he uses good seeds from good breeders for his crosses I'm sure you won't find two of the same phenos in a tga 10 pack though 
aint you the guy who chops his plants way to early? you can't judge a strain if you don't grow it out all the way. theirs no way jacks cleaner is the best strain in the world how many strains have you personaly grown to completion? 


hazey grapes said:


> hey... if ANYONE knows of a trippier or otherwise better strain than TGA's jack's cleaner 2 and that ISN'T named after murder which is an issue with me, deal with it, and that flowers close to the 9 week range, i'd love to hear all about it. is sannies' jack herer trippier? cool, that'll be my next sample.
> 
> i do agree that TGA does have a fanatical, almost cultish following, but as far as i'm concerned, his JC2 is the best bud i've ever smoked that wasn't grown outdoors in california and that i can put a name to. i smoked a really trippy bud a couple years ago that i'm positive was columbian gold, or at least a hybrid as it had the same grassy pine cone kind of odor purveyors of the "bag appeal myth" would dismiss (made me fucking happy just to taste it!) and that had a similar trippy buzz that was too much when i got talked into clearing a huge chamber and woofed, got nauseous with light spinning effects, and more than anything, had to get the fuck out of there because i couldn't take listening to the heavy metal from one of my hosts playing guitar hero.
> 
> ...


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 2, 2012)

serious seeds, mr. nice, sensi seeds, dutch passion, dj short, greenhouse probally barney's farm I know theirs a lot more I know it was legal in switzerland to produce marijuana seeds and thats where some the breeders warehouses are 
and they aint looking for good, pretty good phenos their looking for awsome superb phenos only the best of the best of the best


hazey grapes said:


> yeah... who has the time and space to test 100+ plants for one that's even better when a truly good strain should have awesome to awesomer plants. i was impressed with my joey weed C99s in that regard. i had tall phenos and shorties too, but the smoke was consistent enough that nothing seemed radically different to me. i guess just getting high without getting stoned is "good enough" for me, but some strains are definitely better than others


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 2, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> I'm sure nevilles haze is way trippier and stronger than jc2 and of course its not schwag he uses good seeds from good breeders for his crosses I'm sure you won't find two of the same phenos in a tga 10 pack though
> aint you the guy who chops his plants way to early? you can't judge a strain if you don't grow it out all the way. theirs no way jacks cleaner is the best strain in the world how many strains have you personaly grown to completion?


it depends on what strain honestly, i popped a 5 pack of ace of spades looking for a male, 2 plants are nearly identical, they are both mutating buds on the leaves, the smells are almost exactly the same, the height are the same, and they mature at the same rate, i have another pheno with the similar mutation of weird fan leaf growth and budfanleafs but it smells much better than the other 2(bcs dominant). i think i have a keeper from just 1 5 pack so.... i'm happy.

heres a vid, this tent is tiny, like 3'x3'x5', use it for seed making and testing new plants, another tent for stress testing. 

______________
Void CCandy AoS
---------------- Basic layout of tent.
TTD AoS AoS
----------------
fan Void
_______________

[video=youtube;EyMWIn1uU2I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyMWIn1uU2I&amp;feature=youtu.be[/video]


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## BeaverHuntr (Jul 2, 2012)

racerboy71 said:


> that's too funny.. you say how the good strains from tga aren't even breed by sub, yet he's some genius in the same sentence for the most part..
> 
> and i don't know about being a cool kid as it seems 99% of the people around here suck sub's dick so hard it's not even funny.. ever seen the size of that weed nerd thread?? more lovers than haters of sub on this forum at least...



I grew out two Jilly Bean plants and they sucked they grew legit and all except the jilly bean that looked best has no fucking scent to it. you growers know what I'm talking about. Right before harvest you touch the bud and your finger reeks of fresh bud well this one straight up smells like a fucking plastic cup..Looks beautiful but no odor lol.


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## hazey grapes (Jul 2, 2012)

i'm not saying jack's cleaner 2 is the best in the world by any stretch. i'm inclined to bet that my malawi golds are even better, but JC2 is a 9 week strain and not a 12+ like neville'$ haze (not an option ever) and other IBL leaning strains. it's the best practical strain i've grown, and i liked the high just as much as columbian gold. it's a very sensual touchy feely kind of buzz and i like that a lot, just as much as light & floaty gold.

i'm not out for "the most potent strain in the world" either. i'm not that hard to please. i just despise getting stoned with every fiber of my being since the day i got "ripped off" by about 3 grams of 2 different indicas for the $8 i had in my pocket that didn't get me high or inspire me to to the art i'd planned like gold did.

if a strain just gets me high, i'm happy enough. in fact, the more mellow natured 8 miles high is my 24/7 favorite maybe because it just has a mellow personality. IBLs aren't fun when you take that one toke more than you should and you get the dreaded room spinning dizzies.

so far, i've harvested early in both of my last 2 grows. in the last one, it was just because it looked like my gals were finished and the seeds looked mature, and this last grow, it was forced when all of my gals got polkadot hot spot burns the night i forgot to turn my fan on for a couple hours, but i'm happy enough there too as i got to try a bunch of different strains and learn sativa trans-love buds like crazy leaving other strains in the dust for fast THC production and sweet haze is a couple notches above common jacks, hazes & thais. but i just got high every day as long as the bud lasted, and that's good enough for me.

i don't have the same obsession for doing everything "by the numbers at maximum efficiency" as many of you. i just want to get high as soon as possible as much as possible. it makes life bearable. you know what... i'm going to blaze some brownleaf schwag right now, and i'll enjoy it more than the stickiest afghani anyone here thinks has bag appeal. it tastes crappy & is harsh, but it gets me where i wanna be.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 2, 2012)

BeaverHuntr said:


> I grew out two Jilly Bean plants and they sucked they grew legit and all except the jilly bean that looked best has no fucking scent to it. you growers know what I'm talking about. Right before harvest you touch the bud and your finger reeks of fresh bud well this one straight up smells like a fucking plastic cup..Looks beautiful but no odor lol.


how was it grown, just curious. jb was one of the better smelling plants i've grown, i don't keep it around since it can be herm prone.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 2, 2012)

@hazey how can yo claim your malawi gold is better than jc2? You have no completed grows only failed ones!
lol


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## BeaverHuntr (Jul 2, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> how was it grown, just curious. jb was one of the better smelling plants i've grown, i don't keep it around since it can be herm prone.


It was grown indoors with Canna Coco and House and Garden Nutes.. I have a sealed environment with co2 & two 1000 HPS.. The plant grew like a champ it just is not producing any scent what so ever from the bud. It was grown along side Alien OG, OG Hazy, Jupiter OG, and Super Silver Haze... I guess it was a lame ass pheno.


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## hazey grapes (Jul 2, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> @hazey how can yo claim your malawi gold is better than jc2? You have no completed grows only failed ones!
> lol


 how can you take my words out of context and twist them like that? without playing your little troll game, i bet i said "i BET" or "i IMAGINE" that malawai gold is better because in theory, it's a pure IBL and an IBL is, uh... more IBL than an hybrid. do logical connections, even proper quotes elude you on a daily?


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## ink the world (Jul 2, 2012)

I think that comparing seed companies can somewhat difficult. I mean I have different expectations from different companies/different breeding practices.

I just grew out 3 strains from TGA for instance. Querkle, Apollo 13 BX and Plushberry. Each did as I expected going into growing them out. The Apollo is a backcross, I expected little pheno variation and got it. All the plants were pretty similar.
The Querkle and the Plushberry were more varied, as I expected.

I understood going into those strains that I wasn't buying F7 seeds or something. The idea of pheno hunting was fine with me going into the grow. I'm happy with the gear, I got a keeper of each strain and a great Querkle male.


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## hazey grapes (Jul 2, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> @hazey how can yo claim your malawi gold is better than jc2? You have no completed grows only failed ones!
> lol


 how can you take my words out of context and twist them like that? without playing your little troll game, i bet i said "i BET" or "i IMAGINE" that malawai gold is better because in theory, it's a pure IBL and an IBL is, uh... more IBL than an hybrid. do logical connections, even proper quotes elude you on a daily?

i can't make ANY claims about holy smokes' malawi other than "it looks promising" as i haven't experienced it forst hand yet and only have it's WELL KNOWN reputation as one of the top sativas in the world which you would too if you did a little more reading and a lot les finger pointing


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 2, 2012)

Still living in the haze! Hazey


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 2, 2012)

sounds like I should take your advice if I want to smoke shitty weed realy schwag over dank afghan your a nut or you never actualy smoked dank weed in your life saying it taste crappy schwag tastes like shit


hazey grapes said:


> i'm not saying jack's cleaner 2 is the best in the world by any stretch. i'm inclined to bet that my malawi golds are even better, but JC2 is a 9 week strain and not a 12+ like neville'$ haze (not an option ever) and other IBL leaning strains. it's the best practical strain i've grown, and i liked the high just as much as columbian gold. it's a very sensual touchy feely kind of buzz and i like that a lot, just as much as light & floaty gold.
> 
> i'm not out for "the most potent strain in the world" either. i'm not that hard to please. i just despise getting stoned with every fiber of my being since the day i got "ripped off" by about 3 grams of 2 different indicas for the $8 i had in my pocket that didn't get me high or inspire me to to the art i'd planned like gold did.
> 
> ...


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 2, 2012)

i take it back, og kush is over used, but the most over rated goes to any htcc winner from ghs/bf in the last 5-10 years or more.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 2, 2012)

yea, ink the world- when expectations get too high, that is when things tend to seem overrated. i never expect to find a rare dank pheno when i order nirvana but when i get one, it sure is worth more than the 25-50 dollars i shell out for it. the problem is when breeders tout their strains as cup winners and the final product is no better than the weed you get on the street, hell, i bet my buddies bagseed og kush plant will be better than the critical kush i have flowering now, it has low odor(not a bad thing in particular as long as it packs a wallop) and low trichome development so far, not what i expected from a cup winner.


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## BeaverHuntr (Jul 2, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> i take it back, og kush is over used, but the most over rated goes to any htcc winner from ghs/bf in the last 5-10 years or more.


People are always talking shit about Green house Seed but Super Lemon Haze they got right. I loved that strain.. Not 1 hermie and all the plants yielded me about 5 ounces in DWC.

OG strains are some of the best in my opinion I will take some OG with SFV lineage any day, you dont have to ask me twice!


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 2, 2012)

BeaverHuntr said:


> People are always talking shit about Green house Seed but Super Lemon Haze they got right. I loved that strain.. Not 1 hermie and all the plants yielded me about 5 ounces in DWC.
> 
> OG strains are some of the best in my opinion I will take some OG with SFV lineage any day, you dont have to ask me twice!


i have some simpson kush seedlings outside, and i agree, sfv og smells very very dank, which is usually a good judgement of potency before you smoke the stuff, only week 2 but this is a very stretchy plant, i think it is more Fruit of the gods dominant (father plant- made up of Nl5 haze x Skunk 1) looks pretty sati dom and smells not very strong yet, out of 5, i think i have 1 male, stretching to the sky basically, the rest seem uniform and i have 1 that is a real stinker and 3 that smell like lilacs and lemonheads.


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## canna_420 (Jul 2, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> sounds like I should take your advice if I want to smoke shitty weed realy schwag over dank afghan your a nut or you never actualy smoked dank weed in your life saying it taste crappy schwag tastes like shit


he always chops them down when they begin stinking according to him, Ive noticed him on nearly all threads trying to give advise on all flavors. No way he grown the ones he mentions as they fucking stink.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 2, 2012)

canna_420 said:


> he always chops them down when they begin stinking according to him, Ive noticed him on nearly all threads trying to give advise on all flavors. No way he grown the ones he mentions as they fucking stink.


if it it ain't stank, it ain't dank


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 2, 2012)

canna_420 said:


> he always chops them down when they begin stinking according to him, Ive noticed him on nearly all threads trying to give advise on all flavors. No way he grown the ones he mentions as they fucking stink.


The biggest form of misinformation on the forum, dudes been banned from every forum he been on lol


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 2, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> The biggest form of misinformation on the forum, dudes been banned from every forum he been on lol


brb on redit making a Hazey grapes meme


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## cannabineer (Jul 2, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> serious seeds, mr. nice, sensi seeds, dutch passion, dj short, greenhouse probally barney's farm I know theirs a lot more I know it was legal in switzerland to produce marijuana seeds and thats where some the breeders warehouses are
> and they aint looking for good, pretty good phenos their looking for awsome superb phenos only the best of the best of the best


Serious, Mr.Nice, Sensi yes.
Greenhouse, Barneys, Dutch Passion no. 
My opinion. cn


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## indicagreen (Jul 2, 2012)

Id have to say me personaly....Chem dawg.


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## Grojak (Jul 2, 2012)

FR33MASON said:


> For someone like me, TGA is a great thing as I only have enough room to flower 4 plants and I know what I like so TGA actually helps streamline that issue of finding a pheno that I like.


On the contrary my man, wouldn't you rather buy a strain that has a 4/4 chance of giving you that desired pheno rather than a 1/4 chance? I had 3 different pheno's out of my last pack of 5 of tag DQ. Now let's say I get some black widow smoke and want to get the beans to grow myself, when I go to purchase black widow and I pop 5 seeds, odds are in my favor that all girls will be close to that smoke and one of my females will be really close to that black widow I smoked (assuming both are from Mr Nice), that said I purchased some dairy queen at a dispensary that in no way resembled the 3 pheno's I got on my own and defiantly wasn't the desired pheno that I've kept around.


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## Grojak (Jul 2, 2012)

racerboy71 said:


> that's too funny.. you say how the good strains from tga aren't even breed by sub, yet he's some genius in the same sentence for the most part..
> 
> and i don't know about being a cool kid as it seems 99% of the people around here suck sub's dick so hard it's not even funny.. ever seen the size of that weed nerd thread?? more lovers than haters of sub on this forum at least...


Let's be real for a second.... in order to properly breed, according to all the experts, you need to pop 100 + seeds and start selection, well Sub lives in OR (though claims to live in WA, somethings fishy) as publicized as he is, even if he had his own patients and mzjill had her own patients they are still capped at growing 90 plants (45 per provider) at any time to be legal in OR, so there is no f'n way he is properly breeding. As someone stated earlier he is just a figure head, Dioxide created Chrnobyl, Deep Purple and I'm forgetting the other, Space Queen in Bros Grim, Apollo also Bros Grim not to mention all of his crosses almost consist of Bro's grim Space Queen x a clone and I've read of others of his that he didn't create. He is a corporation, and corporation are for money, Greenhouse is a corporation, sadly I think Serious with the introduction of fem'd seeds and now Autoflowering fem'd WR are becoming more greedy or could be losing money to these overhyped companies thus causing them to scramble to keep up.


On another not, I agree OG Kush is hype'd to all hell, but I will admit I love it's spicy flavor and high, I don't have a cut but I would like to grow one out and always have a couple zips laying around of it.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 2, 2012)

got high and forgot lol,


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 2, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> got high and forgot lol, View attachment 2237903


Love it lol


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## Clankie (Jul 2, 2012)

Look, I don't want to rush to judgement, and I don't want to start any flame wars, but harvesting before your buds are ripe makes Baby Jesus cry. Blood, even. It makes Baby Jesus cry blood. Especially long flowering sativas, that generally don't even express 1/2 their full majesty before the final couple weeks of flowering. I remember the first time I grew a strong 14 week haze, the amount of time I spent standing around glaring at it and thinking: 'oh just come on and fill out already'. Waiting for it to finish was difficult, but VERY rewarding. 

I also know that I am new here, but that is mainly because while what I was doing was illegal, I didn't particularly have much interest in the public proclamation thereof. Now that I can operate in complete legality, I could give less of a shit.

*Seriously, folks, don't trust anyone who tells you that there's any reason, short of a plant's obvious impending demise, or cops breaking down your front door, to harvest early.*


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## cannabineer (Jul 2, 2012)

Clankie said:


> Look, I don't want to rush to judgement, and I don't want to start any flame wars, but harvesting before your buds are ripe makes Baby Jesus cry. Blood, even. It makes Baby Jesus cry blood. Especially long flowering sativas, that generally don't even express 1/2 their full majesty before the final couple weeks of flowering. I remember the first time I grew a strong 14 week haze, the amount of time I spent standing around glaring at it and thinking: 'oh just come on and fill out already'. Waiting for it to finish was difficult, but VERY rewarding.
> 
> I also know that I am new here, but that is mainly because while what I was doing was illegal, I didn't particularly have much interest in the public proclamation thereof. Now that I can operate in complete legality, I could give less of a shit.
> 
> *Seriously, folks, don't trust anyone who tells you that there's any reason, short of a plant's obvious impending demise, or cops breaking down your front door, to harvest early.*


True. However (and this is science!) harvesting too late makes a unicorn somewhere discover auto-fellatio, making it useless to all. cn


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## Rotten Apple Seeds (Jul 2, 2012)

Purple Haze is Over Rated! Iv had the true purple haze from uptown manhatten and it is surely OVER Rated! I have even grown it to see if mabe I got a "bad batch" an sure enough was over rated. The only Purple Haze I like is a cross I had that is more on the Cheese side.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 2, 2012)

which purple haze, there is a g13 labs one that is pretty mediocre, as very few turn purp, smell is sweet and flowering time is about 9-10 weeks, not crazy potent and there is a positronics Phaze made with a purple thai that i want to grow, i dont know of many others besides Killing fields, that is like purple jack herer.


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## lahadaextranjera (Jul 3, 2012)

canna_420 said:


> Its not copyright that prints out a serial number its good customer support. Its their to be able to lock down batch number to the T.
> Some breeders put dates on their seeds others dont, some change their labels every now and then to remind people these are fresher.


Simon from SS prints the batch number so that he CAN GIVE GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE. If u have a problem with the packet u purchase then Simon looks into it thoroughly and sends out a new one.


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## Grojak (Jul 3, 2012)

lahadaextranjera said:


> Simon from SS prints the batch number so that he CAN GIVE GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE. If u have a problem with the packet u purchase then Simon looks into it thoroughly and sends out a new one.



I recently had to give SS my packet number, good people to work with!!!


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## nazi zombies (Jul 3, 2012)

girl scout cookies hands down yes its good but why would anyone pay 50 a cut


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## chef c (Jul 3, 2012)

I just saw someone post, had a pic of a website for a disp, grl scout ckies 800$/cut... Talkabout over rated.


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## BeaverHuntr (Jul 3, 2012)

chef c said:


> I just saw someone post, had a pic of a website for a disp, grl scout ckies 800$/cut... Talkabout over rated.



Its the "2012 strain" ..The name is what sells it..


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## cannabineer (Jul 3, 2012)

chef c said:


> I just saw someone post, had a pic of a website for a disp, grl scout ckies 800$/cut... Talkabout over rated.


At that price, the main cola better become a fully-functional and awesomely loyal hentai Girl Scout. cn


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Jul 3, 2012)

chef c said:


> I just saw someone post, had a pic of a website for a disp, grl scout ckies 800$/cut... Talkabout over rated.


 with 800 dollars, you could get the best pheno of any sannie strain if you invest that 800 to it, you would end up with a few hundred seeds. or like 350 nirvana seeds of any strain. with that much variation you are bound to find a killer plant that would shit on the gsc clone.


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## BustinScales510 (Jul 3, 2012)

Id say Blue Dream is the most overrated strain around here. Everyone grows it because it yields high and is low maintenance but it just seems average after a few times. I was at harborside waiting to vend once and the guy came out and actually said "Were not looking for Blue dream or green crack today" and like half the people got up and left haha.


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## Badmf (Jul 3, 2012)

BTW the cups have been fixed for yearas hope his is not a shock to ya it's ad hype to sucker phools to sell em seeds, lol. been there seen it.


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## hazey grapes (Jul 3, 2012)

> *"Were not looking for Blue dream or green crack today" and like half the people got up and left haha. *


*
*LMAO! i know someone that buys that


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## bluntmassa1 (Jul 3, 2012)

I'd make a mother out of that bitch and sell clones be a millionare in no time


chef c said:


> I just saw someone post, had a pic of a website for a disp, grl scout ckies 800$/cut... Talkabout over rated.


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## hazey grapes (Jul 4, 2012)

*yawn* and another grower decides he wants to sue doggies' nuts for copyright infringement


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## Buck123 (Jul 4, 2012)

Chemdawg most overrated piece of shit out!


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## HeartlandHank (Jul 4, 2012)

White Russian and Trainwreck.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 5, 2012)

Buck123 said:


> Chemdawg most overrated piece of shit out!


I agree...........!


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## Buck123 (Jul 5, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I agree...........!


Its Stinks like Ass hell.. I'd take many a strain before that cunt!


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 5, 2012)

Buck123 said:


> Its Stinks like Ass hell.. I'd take many a strain before that cunt!


My issue was it was a hermie monster on top of being a stretchy beast


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## Buck123 (Jul 5, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> My issue was it was a hermie monster on top of being a stretchy beast


Man iv'e had it in a cross RP OG#18.. Disliked it and had one run of it and liquidated the sucker! I waited for ever to try the kush craze for what? haha Goji Og is my type of thing tho!


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## kinetic (Jul 8, 2012)

the most overated strain is what ever my dude is carrying if I run out.

I have to post just to defend the widow, I got mine from amsterdamseedbank (I know I've heard) 2 grows in working on the 3rd from seeds it's better than most I've had. It has been compared against ww brought from amsterdam in the mid/late 90's that a grower friend of mine still has going. It's not identical but pretty damn close. I surprised allot of heads I know when I burned down with 'em. A few put it up there with the best they've smoked. Looks like I'll be grabbing some black widow for the truth. (I love finding info on riu)

A friend had some strawberry cough, tasted nice but I don't think the grower did his job thoroughly enough.


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## indicagreen (Jul 8, 2012)

I got GSC for 10 bucks a cutting. good shit!!


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## Sir.Ganga (Jul 30, 2012)

SketchyGrower said:


> GHS is a joke and I "have " run them...
> 
> Mr.Nice,GGG,TGA,RD,Bodhi,Next generation,CV and Alphakronik would run circles around any GHS strain..


Its too bad you worry about politics and bullshit. I don't. I look at strains for what they are and make my decisions on that, not the day to day bullshit of running a business. The genetics of plants are abused and stolen every day, the plant does'nt care. If you have the ability to have your product tested you will find a number of these companies you mention...lacking for a better word.

Genetics has nothing to do with the company you buy from, do your research and stop worring about the ass holes taking your money.


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## iNUPE (Jul 30, 2012)

i started off with Greenhouse seeds... they were cheap, they germinated, they grew buds, no hermies, and the plant finished.

the finished product did its job... in that respect, i have no qualms with it.. everything that i grew from GHSC finished... it was just never any knockout weed.. but for the prices that i paid, i cant complain

they get alot of hate on here for no reason... yes.. there are better choices.. there are always gonna be better choices..


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## Jogro (Jul 30, 2012)

The Chemist Brothers said:


> so far- Super lemon haze, everything else has been about as good as i thought it would be, after it's first win at the htcc i thought it was a fluke, i then saw it win again???? so i got the seeds and grew them out, not much i can say about the strain, it smells like lemon, it can be pretty finicky and yields pretty good, no way is it a cc winner IMO, "what the fuck were the judges smoking?"


My vote for "most overrated strain" is anything that's won a recent HT cannabis cup. 

HT cup is mostly a marketing too for the magazine, and to a lesser extent a trade show for the cannabis industry, not in any way a legitimate contest to identify great strains. 

Not only is the cup itself pretty much "for sale" to the seedhouse with the biggest budget for promotion, but the HT staff has more or less admitted such. That's the reason why there are two houses in particular that tend to dominate these cups. Its not because their genetics are the best, but rather because they know a cup title sells a *LOT* of seeds, and they promote their strains accordingly. Many of the better breeders won't even enter this contest, because they know they don't have a chance, regardless of the strain quality. 

There have been all sorts of allegations over the year of vote-rigging and strain substitution, and bribery has even been documented. 

Also, the categories are somewhat "arbitrary", eg. the strain "AK-47" has won cups as "best indica" (second place, 2003), "best sativa" (2nd place, 1999), and "best hybrid (third place, 2011). I wouldn't say its not a great strain, but really, if the indica and sativa, etc categories mean anything at all, how this this strain be a winner in all three?


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## BustinScales510 (Jul 30, 2012)

So do you smoke all the cup winners? Or just have a beef with the event. It seems kinda presumptuous to call strains overrated if you haven't smoked them. Im not saying the cup is completely free of palm greasing..but I dont think every win is tainted. I saw an interview with scott from rare dankness who won best sativa, and he said that he had no expectations because he was new and didnt rent a booth or advertise (the method people claim gets you a win), and was surprised when his strain was called out.


Jogro said:


> My vote for "most overrated strain" is anything that's won a recent HT cannabis cup.
> 
> HT cup is mostly a marketing too for the magazine, and to a lesser extent a trade show for the cannabis industry, not in any way a legitimate contest to identify great strains.
> 
> ...


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## Rhyzome (Jul 30, 2012)

BustinScales510 said:


> So do you smoke all the cup winners? Or just have a beef with the event. It seems kinda presumptuous to call strains overrated if you haven't smoked them. Im not saying the cup is completely free of palm greasing..but I dont think every win is tainted. I saw an interview with scott from rare dankness who won best sativa, and he said that he had no expectations because he was new and didnt rent a booth or advertise (the method people claim gets you a win), and was surprised when his strain was called out.


I couldn't agree more! Also, how would you explain award winning strains by Mandala, who keep costs low by not spending money on marketing (ahem, GHS), and pass those savings on to the customer instead. Now those *are* business practices I give a shit about.

Most overrated strain would have to be Purple Kush, and oddly enough the strongest was OG Kush. So I definitely wouldn't call OG hyped. Not a big fan of that type of stone unless it's bedtime though. I usually prefer a nice uplifting Sativa for the most part.


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## Jogro (Jul 30, 2012)

> *Im not saying the cup is completely free of palm greasing..but I dont think every win is tainted.*


You can't be half-pregnant. Either the contest is legitimate, or it isn't, right? If *some* of the wins are tainted, then doesn't that affect the ranking of every other strain in that given contest?

Again, the staff members from High Times, have themselves said that the houses that spend the most on promotion (including giving away free weed) heavily influence the contest in their favor. They said it in the 20th anniversary cup documentary from High Times (200, kind of shrugging it off, as "oh well, yeah, what do we care if some of the cups are bought and paid for". Unfortunately, its been a while since I've seen this, and I can't point you to the exact spot, but its in here, watch it and see for yourself, and you'll get some idea of what actually goes on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8o6C_Gkqz4

In 2003 Arjan Roskam of Greenhouse seeds had two cup wins reversed when he was caught red-handed bribing judges. In any other "competition" being caught bribing judges would be a lifetime ban, but in the HTCC, apparently, it doesn't matter because (quoting the organizer) the rules against bribery weren't clear. In the meantime, Arjan is let right back in to compete in 2004, and he's won a number of cups since then (and before). So does anyone believe that 2003 was the *only* year in which he bribed judges? That every OTHER of his 30+ cups were won legitimately, but JUST those two were because of bribery? The fact that the guy is even still allowed to compete says something pretty sleazy about the contest (let alone that he's won cups in 2008, 2009, 2010, etc).

Does this mean that every cup winner is crap? No, of course not. If you go down the list of winners from the last 20 years, and go through the names, plenty of them are great classic strains that have stood the test of time: Skunk, Northern lights, White Widow, AK-47, Blueberry, Bubblegum, White Rhino, Jack Herer, Super Silver Haze, are all past cup winners, that have become the equivalent of "household names" in the cannabis world. 

I've heard Nico Escondido (who is in the video above) say recently that they've (ie he's) gone to great lengths to make the contests more objective (presumably in light of the widespread perception that the cup wasn't on the up and up) so I also think its plausible that in the last year or two things have improved a bit. 

So to be clear, my issue here isn't that the cup winners are no good. In fact, the opposite is true, most are excellent. I'm just saying that the hype surrounding this particular contest outweighs its value in actually selecting the top strains (which is highly subjective anyway). A cup winner may be good, but its not necessarily the best thing around, let alone necessarily even better than other entrants in the contest it beat. 

Plenty of top notch strains never get entered into this contest, and again, there are many top-level breeders who don't want to enter, figuring the expense and hassle isn't worth it, when they think they're not going to have a chance at winning.


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## Jogro (Jul 30, 2012)

Rhyzome said:


> I couldn't agree more! Also, how would you explain award winning strains by Mandala, who keep costs low by not spending money on marketing (ahem, GHS), and pass those savings on to the customer instead. Now those *are* business practices I give a shit about.


I was talking specifically about the High Times Cannabis Cup in Amsterdam. 

Did Mandala win any of those?

If so, I'm not aware of it. 

Which of their strains have won awards, which awards, and when?

Note that HT doesn't have a monopoly on "cannabis contests". Not only are there plenty of other outfits that have jumped on the bandwagon, but now even High Times is having contests all over the place, including within the USA. That's the topic of a whole other thread, but with changes in the law in Holland, the days of Dutch HTCCs may soon be over, and I think HT magazine has cleverly hedged its bets with "medical" cannabis cups in the USA.


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## Rhyzome (Jul 30, 2012)

My mistake. High Times rated Satori and Hashberry "strain of the year", but they never won a cup. Either way, it's nice to have contests to expose up and coming breeders (despite the controversies). I would hope any self respecting ganja-head would be judging based on their passion for Cannabis, rather than greed. But obviously this isn't a perfect world. Funny thing is; the best smoke is probably being grown by some toothless old fart, in some remote area near the equator somewhere...


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## canna_420 (Jul 31, 2012)

Who the fuck is htcc?
Spannabis holds alot more clout in my book


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 1, 2012)

c99 is over rated....ap 13 is over rated... anytime u shorten the flowering time on a haze u lose in potency.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 1, 2012)

15yearsofbreeding said:


> c99 is over rated....ap 13 is over rated... anytime u shorten the flowering time on a haze u lose in potency.


rofl.... who told you this? nevilles haze is not as potent as super silver haze.... your arguement destroyed. also, flowering time has nothing to do with potency if you are IBL to a female(in c99's case) that has high potency, that way- the offspring all possess the potency of the mom and males used to bx, so if you start with excellent genetics and then begin inbreeding----you will end up with dank. i doubt your breeding skills or knowledge compare to bros. grim, but you seem to like shitting on others work to big yourself up. you make hazey grapes look like a fucking saint, and he's almost criminal with his bullshit cut/pastes.


Shitty selection and bad breeding leads to weaker offspring... kinda like what made you


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 1, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> rofl.... who told you this? nevilles haze is not as potent as super silver haze.... your arguement destroyed. also, flowering time has nothing to do with potency if you are IBL to a female(in c99's case) that has high potency, that way- the offspring all possess the potency of the mom and males used to bx, so if you start with excellent genetics and then begin inbreeding----you will end up with dank. i doubt your breeding skills or knowledge compare to bros. grim, but you seem to like shitting on others work to big yourself up. you make hazey grapes look like a fucking saint, and he's almost criminal with his bullshit cut/pastes.


nevilles haze is stronger than super silver haze....a good haze high makes ur heart race like a race car. with c99 and ap13 u lose that heart racing high. the high is similar to a haze but not all the way haze. something about cannabis when u go for yield something is lost. something u need to know about breeding cannabis. even with skunk's u see now all these bland ass sweet skunks now because all these breeders when after yield. c99 isnt 100 percent jack herer nor is ap13. so get ur facts right before opening ur pie hole.


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## 15yearsofbreeding (Aug 1, 2012)

super silver haze is for growers and a neville's haze and mango haze is for smokers


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Aug 1, 2012)

have you smoked nevilles haze? it isnt crazy potent, its basically a stable mixture of landrace sativa's while super silver haze is a hybrid made for potency- pure and simple it all relies on what the breeder had in mind, and what the offspring produce. 100% sativa's aren't the most potent by virtue because they flower the longest, that is a missconception, as landraces are more hempy and herm prone compared to super hybrids people produce today pumping out 20-30% thc/thcv while you will be lucky VERY lucky if you get a nevilles haze to get past 13% thc content. if you compare cannabinoid %'s (raw data) landraces sati's have the lowest cbn and cbd levels, therefore a cleaner/pure effect but if you compare that landrace to SSH or even Jack herer for example, the added cbd or thcv will give most people a more powerful and varied effect.


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## tree king (Aug 1, 2012)

perfect time for this thread to get bumped i just posted this in the experience with sannies seeds thread

all i know is killing fields is the most overrated strain ive ever grown. it was a very week high and everybody was complaining about it. i cant believe how many people rave about that strain. after months of time wasted il never order from sannies again. 22% thc my ass. dont believe the hype people, i think sannie is breeding for mostly taste and yield and dont care about potency like us americans do. remember where you heard it first

i straight up grew out 60 seeds of the f2's and had a huge amount of phenos. none of them were impressive. there was 3 main ones the dark purple one thats grapey perfume, the one that starts out purple but ends up being green when dried that had the jack smell, and the green pheno that was straight jack. do you consider blubonic to be a great high potency strain? the blubonic i grow was so much more potent than killing fields. on top of that the chemdog double d was much more potent than the blubonic lol. so you can just picture where killing fields stands in the scheme of things. the funny thing is the looks of kf was so much better than anything else it looked insane. ive never had weed that looked so good but had barely any potency it seems like sannie was just looking at yield, taste, and looks and nothing else. i will admit though the taste was bomb


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## Malevolence (Aug 1, 2012)

I didn't read the entire thread, but I got to where you guys were talking about white widows. What is the consensus on G13 Labs White Widow? Been seriously thinking about giving it a shot, looks frosty as fuck.


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## OGEvilgenius (Aug 2, 2012)

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> have you smoked nevilles haze? it isnt crazy potent, its basically a stable mixture of landrace sativa's while super silver haze is a hybrid made for potency- pure and simple it all relies on what the breeder had in mind, and what the offspring produce. 100% sativa's aren't the most potent by virtue because they flower the longest, that is a missconception, as landraces are more hempy and herm prone compared to super hybrids people produce today pumping out 20-30% thc/thcv while you will be lucky VERY lucky if you get a nevilles haze to get past 13% thc content. if you compare cannabinoid %'s (raw data) landraces sati's have the lowest cbn and cbd levels, therefore a cleaner/pure effect but if you compare that landrace to SSH or even Jack herer for example, the added cbd or thcv will give most people a more powerful and varied effect.


Neville's Haze is like the original Haze. Lots of selection required. You might not find what you're looking for in a pack. Probably will in 2 packs. A lot of comments on it on MNS forums. If you find the one, it is unbelievable.

There are pure sativa landraces that produce mostly CBD. Different regions, different expressions. There's tremendous diversity in the cannabis gene pool.


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## OGEvilgenius (Aug 2, 2012)

Malevolence said:


> I didn't read the entire thread, but I got to where you guys were talking about white widows. What is the consensus on G13 Labs White Widow? Been seriously thinking about giving it a shot, looks frosty as fuck.


I'd get Black Widow from MNS as it's the only legit 100% verified Widow, same as when it won all those cups.

I've seen ridiculous phenotypes from his BW seeds, there's even a thread with an unbelievable picture started by another member in this section earlier today.


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## dirtysnowball (Aug 2, 2012)

papaya is under rated. a few years ago everyone was raving about auto flowering plants... but they were Mostly just pot plants with really low yield XD


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## hazey grapes (Aug 2, 2012)

lowriders yield low per plant, but if you put them in a sea of green with enough of them, you can get a nice yield quickly. i would have had a lot more bud last winter if i filled my space up with nothing but the masterkush lowriders i was testing for fun. they were finished in just 60 days from seed. 

lowriders are also very good for small stealth grows like cabinets.


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## mrecio87 (Aug 3, 2012)

Anything grown to a deep purple color, so not really a specific strain as a lot of strains can be made purple. Nice smell and taste but the potency is very lacking. Also still pondering Deadhead OG, was talked into it at the dispense but they Hermie on me which seems to be a real problem with CC strains. most under rated strain Ive smoked was a strain i got a harborside some time ago called Cerebral, best sativa high I have ever had but I just cant find it anywhere now.


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## BustinScales510 (Aug 4, 2012)

Was it cerebral or cerebus? I use to get one at harborside called cerebus sativa and it was awesome..right when you take the first rip if feels like your head is floating up like a helium balloon. I think it was a clone only because Ive never seen seeds of it.


mrecio87 said:


> Anything grown to a deep purple color, so not really a specific strain as a lot of strains can be made purple. Nice smell and taste but the potency is very lacking. Also still pondering Deadhead OG, was talked into it at the dispense but they Hermie on me which seems to be a real problem with CC strains. most under rated strain Ive smoked was a strain i got a harborside some time ago called Cerebral, best sativa high I have ever had but I just cant find it anywhere now.


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## mrecio87 (Aug 4, 2012)

BustinScales510 said:


> Was it cerebral or cerebus? I use to get one at harborside called cerebus sativa and it was awesome..right when you take the first rip if feels like your head is floating up like a helium balloon. I think it was a clone only because Ive never seen seeds of it.


YEAH YEAH! sorry i have the jar but the sticker is worn and all it shows now is Cere heh. That stuff is fantastic! didnt matter what kind of mood I was in after a toke felt like I was just on top of the world. Man what I wouldnt give for a cut of that girl.


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## cary schellie (Aug 6, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> My issue was it was a hermie monster on top of being a stretchy beast


if ur talking about ghs chem, mine hermed badly and i vegged for 13 weeks. fuckin sick fuck ghs


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## 400wattsallday (Aug 6, 2012)

big bang 4 sure


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## porky501 (Aug 6, 2012)

GHS Chemdog fell way short......not a very stable strain( 2 out of 5 hermied)....phenos all over the place and not a very tasty smoke at all. RP OG#18 was a big disapointment too. Wispy nugs and fell short on high/taste.


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## ManWithTheHex (Aug 22, 2012)

Putting badly cured mystery bags aside, the worst smoke I've had must be the Super Lemon Haze. 

The lemon flavour were just way too dominant for me, and I couldn't really get rid of it for the whole day. Also sort of a cougher, at least for me. 
One of my idiot friends decided to mix the SLH with some other strains and it contaminated the whole thing with this strong lemon taste. Blargh. 

The most overrated strain must be the White Widow tho. Never tried it myself, but no matter how good it is, it won't live up to the hype.


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## mcrandle (Aug 22, 2012)

ManWithTheHex said:


> The most overrated strain must be the White Widow tho. Never tried it myself, but no matter how good it is, it won't live up to the hype.


LOL, never tried it. You are the comedian. I wish I was as bold as you to say a strain is weak even though I've never smoked it.


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## ziggaro (Aug 22, 2012)

My most over-rated strain was the Reservoir Double Strawberry Diesel that I thought was going to be the shit. Maybe I shouldn't have expected much for the price and I believe its an F2, but I was expecting way more.
I only got 2 females but they were pretty similar except for yield. Both were run 85 days and had long spear shaped sativa dom buds. The one was a fatass yielder, but the taste, the smell, and the high were just OK. 
The smell was like citrus and maybe a mild artificial strawberry flavor which although not strong was pretty interesting, the taste was pretty much just earthy and boring, and the high had no kick. 
I'd say it was great daytime herb, but that would be sugar coating.


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## ziggaro (Aug 22, 2012)

O wait, then theres the Kaia Kush from greenhouse. I'm smoking it now and have a journal over at IC and you can see its a tiny little indica plant with small buds and no sign of OG or SSH anywhere. It was nothing like I saw in high times like 4 years previous showing Apothecary's Kaia which was much more sativa dom. How 3 phenos were all the same squat perfumey potpourri couchlock indica buds is beyond me


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## stak (Aug 22, 2012)

ManWithTheHex said:


> Putting badly cured mystery bags aside, the worst smoke I've had must be the Super Lemon Haze.
> 
> The lemon flavour were just way too dominant for me, and I couldn't really get rid of it for the whole day. Also sort of a cougher, at least for me.
> One of my idiot friends decided to mix the SLH with some other strains and it contaminated the whole thing with this strong lemon taste. Blargh.
> ...


wow this whole post is ridiculous. a little funny, but completely ridiculous.


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## Da Almighty Jew (Aug 23, 2012)

you people never tried the real black widow. That why some are saying white widow sucks. Go buy a pack grow it out and then lets see you come back here and say black widow is overrated.


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## stealthweed (Aug 23, 2012)

Just wondering is the Black widow from mr nice the real black widow?smoked it in katsu (coffeshop in adam) and its one of tehre flagship strains and wasn't disappointed...


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## bluntmassa1 (Aug 23, 2012)

stealthweed said:


> Just wondering is the Black widow from mr nice the real black widow?smoked it in katsu (coffeshop in adam) and its one of tehre flagship strains and wasn't disappointed...


this is a pic of black widow from a grower on the mns forum. so ya I would say mr. nice has the real deal I'm not sure how many seeds you will go through to find this pheno but I'm sure you'll find something close in a pack.


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## stealthweed (Aug 23, 2012)

hmm not worth it for me can't keep a mother atm :S


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## Da Almighty Jew (Aug 23, 2012)

stealthweed said:


> hmm not worth it for me can't keep a mother atm :S


i dont keep mothers. i clone from clones that are in 4th week flower. Just ordered an 18 pack of mr nice black widow from sea of seeds cant wait to germ them all and look for the best to make clones of.


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## sandiegojack2 (Aug 23, 2012)

Different stroke's for different folk's no one answer it's a consenses that help's....it's only a guide....another man's trash......I enjoy and have had great result's from Barney's but I have heard they suck.....Not for my style of grow and space!!! Big yielder harvested over 2lb's in 16 sq. ft..but for some other's with different style's sog scrog whatever (I lst'd and lollypopped them) may not yield the same result's...as for enjoyment I send sample's out and go by the reviews concenses but by no mean's is this much better....The gene pool is the important thing with all the different pheno's for a given variety you can't really talk apples to apples. We should concentrate on what we enjoy most and list out the trait's i.e. make's you groggy or smell's like honey with a real kick....may not be the same for all but there should be better description's than 18%thc 60/40 mix indica dominant X with haze....whatever Does it work? How long lasting? was the smoke enjoyable? Nice flavor? Taste? look's and does it give you the munchie's or is it all body stone...ect. Just as when breading particular caractoristic's!! jack


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## grassified (Aug 26, 2012)

First off let me say this thread is SO FULL OF subjective information it makes me want to puke!









Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:


> with 800 dollars, you could get the best pheno of any sannie strain if you invest that 800 to it, you would end up with a few hundred seeds. or like 350 nirvana seeds of any strain. with that much variation you are bound to find a killer plant that would shit on the gsc clone.


But most people don't have the time or space to grow out that many plants? And there is a very good chance you will get some fire out of 350 plants, but it won't be anything like GSC strain!.


bluntmassa1 said:


> I'd make a mother out of that bitch and sell clones be a millionare in no time


supply and demand economics my friend. You obviously don't understand it.





HeartlandHank said:


> White Russian and Trainwreck.


This guy hasn't smoked much in his time lol!



15yearsofbreeding said:


> nevilles haze is stronger than super silver haze....a good haze high makes ur heart race like a race car. with c99 and ap13 u lose that heart racing high. the high is similar to a haze but not all the way haze. something about cannabis when u go for yield something is lost. something u need to know about breeding cannabis. even with skunk's u see now all these bland ass sweet skunks now because all these breeders when after yield. c99 isnt 100 percent jack herer nor is ap13. so get ur facts right before opening ur pie hole.


"A good haze makes your heart race"

and now we see why the multitudinous population of angsty young teens will forever shun sativas and keep smoking their indica dom "stoning" bud.

It isn't about getting high anymore is it? Its about getting stoned, sativas are bad because they give you a "racy heart" "anxiety" yes many sativas do, these are BAD sativas, some GOOD hazes and sativa hybrids give you a serene soaring, creative high without anxiety, heart racing or paranoia effects, THIS is a good sativa my friend, I suggest you find some and try them, then you will realize what REAL weed is.

I've heard from an oldtimer once, "if a dealer sold me the indica hybrids that dominate the market today back in the 70's, i'd throw that shit on the ground, crush it like a cigarette butt AND ASK FOR MY MONEY BACK!"


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## mcrandle (Aug 26, 2012)

grassified said:


> "A good haze makes your heart race"
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't about getting high anymore is it? Its about getting stoned, sativas are bad because they give you a "racy heart" "anxiety" yes many sativas do, these are BAD sativas, some GOOD hazes and sativa hybrids give you a serene soaring, creative high without anxiety, heart racing or paranoia effects, THIS is a good sativa my friend, I suggest you find some and try them, then you will realize what REAL weed is.


I would just like to say that Neville's Haze, which I have grown total two whole packs from Mr. Nice, was not the racy heart thing these kids are talking about. My Neville's Haze skipped all the paranoia and took me straight to another dimension. That's why I love it. Most inspiring weed I ever smoked. I've smoked many sativas, because that's all I like, and I can tell you it's the greatest balance of being super-high with clarity that I have ever smoked. It isn't a good sativa, it's a GREAT sativa. Smoke a bowl of that to yourself and go to the local zoo on a nice spring day. Fucking good times there. 

He is right in one regard though, the Nev's will beat out Super Silver any day. Then again, you'll be waiting 4 months to flower that shit with the right pheno.


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## hazey grapes (Aug 26, 2012)

neville's haze was the first haze available i think. most hazes out their are probably descendants of his originals. that could explain why a lot of hazes out there are more generic and not as trippy as real haze is supposed to be. i can remember when there still weren't nmany hazes out there yet, and nevilles' was something like $280


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## chusett (Aug 26, 2012)

stealthweed said:


> Just wondering is the Black widow from mr nice the real black widow?smoked it in katsu (coffeshop in adam) and its one of tehre flagship strains and wasn't disappointed...


ya its with Shanti.. the guy now working with Mr Nice. Their black widow.. ridiculously cheap priced.. is the OG widow.


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## chusett (Aug 26, 2012)

personally for me.. haze strains are overrated. Used to be poppin in the 90's.. these days it don't have that pine kick to it no more. 

Kush, Sour .. overrated.


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## BigeoffTidwell (Aug 26, 2012)

Black widow is the original white widow shanti took it when he left ghs, which is why nobody likes ww cus they buy that waters down trash from ghs


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## hazey grapes (Aug 27, 2012)

there's actually several "hazes" as haze brothers used thai, columbian and afghani i think to breed for next year's gear so there's more than one line. 

the hazes i've tried have all been thai dominant fruity ones. pinecone haze would likely be from the columbian gold year. i won't say it's the greatest haze ever, but DNA genetics' sweet haze is the best i've had so far. it has true trippiness to it as well as nice fruity sticky buds that embarrassed all of it's rivals that i tested as well as the generic 1/2 gram of an unknown haze i was gifted. that it only takes 9 weeks makes it a top three at worst favorite.

i'm plenty happy with generic hazes that aren't so much trippy as clear headed and motivational with euphoria. that's a nice enough buzz, but sweet haze is just that much fruitier and trippier.

it's about time breeders start working new hazes out of the IBLs that have recently surfaced. there's a few breeders like gage green & ace that have columbian and panama strains that some seem to like, and i'm thinking of giving delta 9's mekong haze a 2nd try as 5 packs are dirt cheap. the seeds are tiny, so the fact i couldn't get them to pop might be a reflection of cold temps that were screwing with everything last year until i got a humidity dome & heating mat this last winter. it made a big difference on sprouting times.

taking the best indoor strains forgetting high like 9 week jack herers etc. and crossing them with purer IBLs should produce some better quality hazes. i'm going to spray eveything with malawi gold my next grow whether or not it's 100% the real deal as at the very least, it's new genes where hazes are mostly thai/columbian/mexican (panama red?)


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## canna_420 (Aug 27, 2012)

chusett said:


> personally for me.. haze strains are overrated. Used to be poppin in the 90's.. these days it don't have that pine kick to it no more.
> 
> Kush, Sour .. overrated.


Ever think in the 90s what we were sold as "haze" or "NL" was just some generic shit with the best label the dealer could think of?
I know ive ad dealers tell me they have this but it is not


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## Vindicated (Aug 27, 2012)

Green House Seed'a Lemon Skunk was disappointing to grow, but I love their Hawaiian Snow. I'm not usually a big fan of OG strains, but when I grew DNA Genetic's The OG #18, I was pretty impressed. Sub Cool's Vortex was hyped like crazy, but IMO it wasn't any better then what I get from Nirvana. Speaking of which, Nirvana's White Rhino and their Bubbalicous were really fun to grow. The White Rhino was very stable while the Bubbalicious was a little less so, but not as bad as Subs. The Vortex is good an all, just not stable, which as a grower I find really annoying. 

I'm really curious to try Tom Hill. Not sure if he's hyped like Sub or if he's legit.


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## canna_420 (Aug 27, 2012)

Vindicated said:


> Green House Seed'a Lemon Skunk was disappointing to grow, but I love their Hawaiian Snow. I'm not usually a big fan of OG strains, but when I grew DNA Genetic's The OG #18, I was pretty impressed. Sub Cool's Vortex was hyped like crazy, but IMO it wasn't any better then what I get from Nirvana. Speaking of which, Nirvana's White Rhino and their Bubbalicous were really fun to grow. The White Rhino was very stable while the Bubbalicious was a little less so, but not as bad as Subs. The Vortex is good an all, just not stable, which as a grower I find really annoying.
> 
> I'm really curious to try Tom Hill. Not sure if he's hyped like Sub or if he's legit.


He uses Posi haze and his Deep chunk. Alot of breeders have the deep chunk and he didnt have to put OG Deep kush on it to sell it either


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## SkyZUU (Aug 27, 2012)

vilify said:


> If you smoked the REAL Widow, then it was not a good pheno. Chances are you smoked a fake.
> 
> I understand it is decent, but I dont agree with all of the hype over the OG's


depends what kind of OG you get I think, most clinics I've seen with 'hybrid' ogs.. 
you want the ORIGINAL. Hard Hitting. Packs a PUNCH! TAHOE OG . DIAMOND OG . OHH GEE . NUGGETRY OG . POISON OG . Those are the 'purest' or most potent of the ogs I know . I don't like the ' black berry og ' or any of those crazy things, they don't smell like the originals .


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## mcrandle (Aug 27, 2012)

chusett said:


> personally for me.. haze strains are overrated. Used to be poppin in the 90's.. these days it don't have that pine kick to it no more.
> 
> Kush, Sour .. overrated.


Funny, I have had some great haze genetics, and they are very piney. No body stone what-so-ever. Neville's stands out as some of the most potent on the planet, apparently you missed the boat on that one. And then there's Old Timers Haze, and Original Haze...ALL OF THEM TRIPPY SATIVAS. I'm a sativa guy, so it's hard to please me with sativa dominant hybrids, so yea, having smoked all of those, they are just as good as they were in the 80's and 90's. Maybe you just don't know a good breeder. Or maybe you haven't even smoked a good haze. 

You don't sound like a guy that has grown out a 14-18 week flowering sativa. Therefore you are full of shit.


Seriously man, Kush and Sour overrated too? I bet you've never smoked the original genetics to anything, you just like to go against the grain for no good reason at all.


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## gagekko (Aug 27, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> I'd like to know. So far, i have three in my Avoid column: GreenHouse, Barneys and Nirvana. I'm not saying no good ever comes of them, but I've read about (and with Nirvana, experienced) serious inconsistency and a prevalence of lousy phenos.


I'm growing GH Lemon Skunk right now, no hermies, all germ, and very nice smell covered with tri's.... I'm happy with it so far - but haven't smoked yet


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## gagekko (Aug 27, 2012)

toxicity32 said:


> So you've never experienced with GreenHouse, only read about it?
> 
> To this day, I have tried 12 strains from them and all my seeds germinated.


Word... My Lemon Skunk ain't done but all is looking good.


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## hazey grapes (Aug 28, 2012)

> *Green House Seed's Lemon Skunk was disappointing to grow*


their super lemon haze was the shwaggiest haze i tested. it took the longest to start flowering and had a buzz no better than CRAZY FAST budding sativa-trans love which left everything i was growing but a masterkush auto in the dust, but DNA's sweet haze embarrassed all fruity hazes, jacks & thais i tested so far as well as the 1/2 gram of an unknown grape tasting haze i was gifted. 

if you look at the SLH in the pic closely, you can see the bottom leafset was in a mutated 2 1/2 - 3 branch pattern with leaf mutation and even the second leafset had some webbing before it settled down to just making healthy looking leaves where EVERYTHING else, even malawi gold was already budding.
View attachment 2312030

*DNA lemon skunk*? AWESOME! i like it much better than the cardboard tasting skunk #1 i used to get and it was less stony too. that hit up with some hopefully trippy and lemony malawi gold should be pretty freakin' nice to flat out awesome. all 3 DNAs i've tried have been better than average. love that sweet haze! my #2 favorite at worst


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## stealthweed (Aug 28, 2012)

^^lol wtf SLH was the strongest weed I smoked to date IMO 0.3-5 joint got 5 people high for 5+ hours W T F , was on 4/20 saved us the day as it took ages to organize some and this was the only stash I had left...thought it wasn't enough anymore but oh well curing makes weed so fucking much stronger lol


any infos on Alien crosses?Dank or Hype?


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## althor (Aug 28, 2012)

stealthweed said:


> ^^lol wtf SLH was the strongest weed I smoked to date IMO 0.3-5 joint got 5 people high for 5+ hours W T F , was on 4/20 saved us the day as it took ages to organize some and this was the only stash I had left...thought it wasn't enough anymore but oh well curing makes weed so fucking much stronger lol
> 
> 
> any infos on Alien crosses?Dank or Hype?



He smoked a haze at 5 weeks from seed and wants to give grow and smoke reports. He is such a noob he has no idea that you cant judge a strain at 5 weeks from seed.

He has had 3 grows.

Grow 1. "Planted next to railroad tracks and the exhaust from the train killed them all" Yeah right...

Grow 2. "Cut off the leaves and tops in veg to smoke thinking they would grow back and the plants all died in veg." What a moron.

Grow 3. "5 weeks from seed I forgot to turn my fan on ONE night and the heat from the lights killed them all". Exactly how hot does it be to kill all your plants in ONE night and how exactly would a fan prevent it from happening?



All of his grow/smoke reports are based on those above 3 grows...


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## Clankie (Aug 28, 2012)

althor said:


> ...


After the first rant about perpetrating violent acts against people who make hybrids and simultaneously refusing to grow Jack the Ripper or Killing Fields due to the 'violent associations' my brain's ignore filter kicked on, and I either don't read those posts or read them specifically for the sake of humor. Maybe he's like tinkerbell, and if everyone did the same, he would fade away, and balance would return to the universe. Either that or someone will ban him for being, like, insanely irritating. Personally, I think he's a fed, because he reads like a bad impersonation of someone who grows weed done by someone who has never even smoked it.


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## chusett (Aug 28, 2012)

mcrandle said:


> Funny, I have had some great haze genetics, and they are very piney. No body stone what-so-ever. Neville's stands out as some of the most potent on the planet, apparently you missed the boat on that one. And then there's Old Timers Haze, and Original Haze...ALL OF THEM TRIPPY SATIVAS. I'm a sativa guy, so it's hard to please me with sativa dominant hybrids, so yea, having smoked all of those, they are just as good as they were in the 80's and 90's. Maybe you just don't know a good breeder. Or maybe you haven't even smoked a good haze.
> 
> You don't sound like a guy that has grown out a 14-18 week flowering sativa. Therefore you are full of shit.
> 
> ...


This thread isn't asking people to review every strain they've personally grown. Its asking for peoples "Opinion" on strains. Do you know what means? Are you off your meds?

Maybe you consider every haze strain in the world to be your wife? I dunno. Don't take it so personal bro. 

No, never grew out a 14-18 wk haze MYSELF. I grew auto flowering mango/super silver haze awhile back. But I do mean and still reiterate the haze that i BUY on the streets these days (yes im not just a grower, OMG NOOO WAYYYYY) is not the same as it was in the 90's. That's all i meant. And whilei personally do enjoy oG kush and headband.. I just get tired of it being on the streets like everything with a kush or sour in the strain name means its gold. People are too execessive on it these days.. theres thousands other strains is all i meant. 

How bout instead of the vomit type of comment you contributed... why don't YOU tell us what is overrated? Im sure theres always going to be a person there telling you to jump off a cliff too. 

You really should go take your meds though. Bye now.


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## chusett (Aug 28, 2012)

chusett said:


> personally for me.. haze strains are overrated. Used to be poppin in the 90's.. these days it don't have that pine kick to it no more.
> 
> Kush, Sour .. overrated.



For people that think I might have OD'd on the tard.. this is all I said when he came shootin out like a 2 month load..


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## cannabineer (Aug 28, 2012)

gagekko said:


> I'm growing GH Lemon Skunk right now, no hermies, all germ, and very nice smell covered with tri's.... I'm happy with it so far - but haven't smoked yet


I had a similar experience with my Nirvanas. They grew well, and while one smelled pretty bad, the other smelled glorious. But the decent-smelling one produced strong but quite indifferent smoke, while the other tasted like urinal cake but gave a better high. Neither was a keeper pheno imo. I was disappointed when smoke test time came. 
You could very well get lucky! In which case i would praise the pheno but not necessarily the source. i've known big outdoor growers here who grew GHS gardens, had a great time growing it ... then were simply outraged at harvest time. hay smells, Indifferent potency, ~meh~ buzz. Stories like that make me gunshy. Oh how i miss Bros Grimm! Excellent strains, and they were not today's exuberantly unstable polyhybrids. cn


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## Villa (Aug 28, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Racerboy, would you know ... was bushy old grower the same cat as BushyOlderGrower on Overgrow? His was one of the names I paid attention to when I was active on that site. cn


 BOG was the best. I heard all kinds of rumors that he got busted, went underground, and lost most of his strains.Just rumors mind you.


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## stealthweed (Aug 28, 2012)

SO is Alien hypeed or really dank?


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## mcrandle (Aug 28, 2012)

stealthweed said:


> SO is Alien hypeed or really dank?


If you're referring to Alien Tech, then it is considered super dank. Just make sure the genetics came from Obsouleet. I think Swerve got some of his shit, not sure though.


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## stealthweed (Aug 28, 2012)

Yeah I am referring to Alien Tech Crosses.I wonder if Garden of Secrects (seems like a cheaper version of overpriced Alien Genetics) is legit?And does Alien Genetics have the real Alien Kush?


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## grassified (Aug 28, 2012)

althor said:


> He smoked a haze at 5 weeks from seed and wants to give grow and smoke reports. He is such a noob he has no idea that you cant judge a strain at 5 weeks from seed.
> 
> He has had 3 grows.
> 
> ...



really along side a "reputation" system we also need an "negative-reputation" (for lack of a better word) to sort out posters who don't know wtf they talking about and people who speak the truth. Sure everyone to some extent would get negative rep because someone doesn't agree with them...but the most idiotic posters will get most neg rep so they can be sorted out.


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## Capt. Stickyfingers (Aug 29, 2012)

stealthweed said:


> ^^lol wtf SLH was the strongest weed I smoked to date IMO 0.3-5 joint got 5 people high for 5+ hours W T F , was on 4/20 saved us the day as it took ages to organize some and this was the only stash I had left...thought it wasn't enough anymore but oh well curing makes weed so fucking much stronger lol
> 
> 
> any infos on Alien crosses?Dank or Hype?


I grew slh and it was eh, kinda ok. If it was the strongest you've had, you're missing out on some real goodies out there.


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## stealthweed (Aug 29, 2012)

Yeah man haven't smoked as much weed as you people here and dunno it felt like the strongest to me I went to amsterdam the moment I had it and I was searching for something like that without success.Even the greenhouse SLH wasn't as potent, maybe its cause he flowered it like 12+ I think....


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## ManWithTheHex (Sep 6, 2012)

mcrandle said:


> LOL, never tried it. You are the comedian. I wish I was as bold as you to say a strain is weak even though I've never smoked it.


I did not say it was a weak strain, read what I wrote. I'm just saying that white widow have been hyped up so much (at least where I'm from) that it should be damn near impossible to live up to the hype. I'm sure white widow is an excellent strain, and it seems like a strain that I would enjoy, but I doubt it is this miracle weed of a next dimension that many think it is. You can easily sell 5 grams of White Widow for 170$ over here (5g of anything else costs 130$, to put it in perspective of the prices here). Just putting the nametag on bumps the price 40 bucks up.
It's like the movie Avatar. It was hyped beyond what is reasonable to expect, even from something that's excellent.


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## Omgwtfbbq Indicaman (Sep 6, 2012)

althor said:


> He smoked a haze at 5 weeks from seed and wants to give grow and smoke reports. He is such a noob he has no idea that you cant judge a strain at 5 weeks from seed.
> 
> He has had 3 grows.
> 
> ...


althor dude, you crack me up lol. i know i can trust ya lol.


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## AutoBudz (Sep 28, 2012)

The most over rated strain? The strains I pay an arm and a leg for, off local dealers that is shit and overpriced.


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## danzibar0161 (Oct 18, 2012)

drolove said:


> so you guys are saying BLACK WIDOW is crappy then?


tried this earlier on this year in katsu coffee shop was lethal stuff nice on the vaporizer never tried any decent white widow yet but goin off the black cant wait.


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## Clankie (Oct 18, 2012)

danzibar0161 said:


> tried this earlier on this year in katsu coffee shop was lethal stuff nice on the vaporizer never tried any decent white widow yet but goin off the black cant wait.


If you missed it earlier in the thread, black widow is the real white widow. It is from Mr. Nice and it is great. Often not the best tasting, to be honest, but the best phenos have moster potency. It is also a great plant for breeding stock. Medicine man is a pretty killer hybrid with great medicinal value made with the real widow and an afghani, I believe, it was originally white rhino (again, I think) but changed like the widow due to too many imitations.


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## ddimebag (Oct 18, 2012)

IMO, White Widow and Nothern Lights. I smoked both on many occasions at many different coffeeshops, and I was never particularly impressed. Don't care much for the smell/taste. They get me high, but it's really not anything special. I am pretty sure I had properly grown, real deal WW ad NL. For example, I had bio grown NL#5 at Sensi's coffeeshop in Rotterdam. It was good, but not nearly as good as people say.


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## mcrandle (Oct 18, 2012)

ddimebag said:


> IMO, White Widow and Nothern Lights. I smoked both on many occasions at many different coffeeshops, and I was never particularly impressed. Don't care much for the smell/taste. They get me high, but it's really not anything special. I am pretty sure I had properly grown, real deal WW ad NL. For example, I had bio grown NL#5 at Sensi's coffeeshop in Rotterdam. It was good, but not nearly as good as people say.


It's not real White Widow if it's not Mr. Nice. LOL, who told you, or what made you even think it was "real" White Widow? Everyone knows the original is hard to come by, especially in a coffee shop.

Dude, coffee shops rarely have something that is worth smoking when it comes to old genetics. Most old genetics from the 90's have been crossed and back crossed but still retain the same name. Sorry, but you missed the boat by about 20 years if you want some REAL ORIGINAL genetics. See, all these people that gave good smoke reports smoked the shit when it first came around, anything after is just watered-down genetics.

And Northern Lights #5 hasn't been around for years, just crosses. And if you want the real Widow, order a pack of Black Widow from MNS, those are the original genetics, not some coffee shop bullshit.


p.s.- if someone knows of a breeder with NL#5, enlighten me. NOT NL x Haze


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## cotchept (Oct 18, 2012)

Northern Lights #5 hasn't been around for years? Uh yes it has. It's over 30 years old and is one of the original indoor strains of the 80s.


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## cotchept (Oct 18, 2012)

mcrandle said:


> NO SHIT jackass. You're telling me something I read about 10 years ago. The history of NL#5 is easy to find on a google search, so don't tell me shit I already know.
> 
> What I said was, if you'd fucking read, is that you can't just go to any seedbank and get the original Northern Lights, they are all crossed with something. Now kindly fuck off, because you can't comprehend what I typed.


lol you mad bro?

If you meant Northern Lights #5 hasn't been around for years *in seed form* then that's what you should have fucking wrote. 

And all I was saying is that NL#5 is alive and strong. My buddy has a old cut of it. Sorry you're such an agro asshole.


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## Jogro (Oct 18, 2012)

mcrandle said:


> And Northern Lights #5 hasn't been around for years, just crosses.


"Not around" isn't true. 

Admittedly, lots of the commercial versions aren't great, and even Sensi Seeds' version has supposedly gone downhill, but people have kept personal lines of this for years in clone and seed form; the genetics haven't been lost. 

Since NL#5 is a true breeding line (in fact, its probably the "ultimate" indoor inbred line), its entirely possible for the line to retain potency after being inbred, even after many generations. 



> p.s.- if someone knows of a breeder with NL#5, enlighten me. NOT NL x Haze


Dr. Atomic's version is supposed to be excellent, and I'd start there. 
Mr. Nice's "Ortega" is probably an excellent rendition. 
BC Seeds is also supposed to have a good one.


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## Jogro (Oct 18, 2012)

mcrandle said:


> What I said was, if you'd fucking read, is that you can't just go to any seedbank and get the original Northern Lights, they are all crossed with something. Now kindly fuck off, because you can't comprehend what I typed.


Not only are there any number of sellers claiming pure Northern lights lines, but in fact this is probably THE most widely sold cannabis line there is, period. Here are a "few" examples:


KC Brains Northern Lights special
Sagarmantha Seeds Northern Lights #9
Seedsman seeds Northern lights
Sensi seeds Northern lights
Doggies Nuts Northern lights. 
Ministry of cannabis Northern lights
Pyramid seeds Northern lights
White Label Northern lights. 

There are probably half a dozen more autoflowering versions which I won't bother listing, since they're clearly not "pure" enough for you. 

Now, I can't tell you who has the "pure" genetics, or which lines are good and which are not, but I think its probably safe to assume that at least a FEW of these are true NL#5 genetics, and at least a few are good. See my last post for three other versions with good reputations.


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## ThaProdiG (Oct 23, 2012)

*whoa...* *"hype" for the ogs??*


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## OGEvilgenius (Oct 23, 2012)

mcrandle said:


> It's not real White Widow if it's not Mr. Nice. LOL, who told you, or what made you even think it was "real" White Widow? Everyone knows the original is hard to come by, especially in a coffee shop.
> 
> Dude, coffee shops rarely have something that is worth smoking when it comes to old genetics. Most old genetics from the 90's have been crossed and back crossed but still retain the same name. Sorry, but you missed the boat by about 20 years if you want some REAL ORIGINAL genetics. See, all these people that gave good smoke reports smoked the shit when it first came around, anything after is just watered-down genetics.
> 
> ...


PeakseedsBC has a rep for having a legit NL. It's believable as the mother/father plants did find their way to the island years ago. I'm growing 6 out right now, still haven't shown sex. Flip gonna happen soon. Was planning to do a journal but not quite ready to start that yet. Sometime in the next week hopefully. Probably when I flip.

It's supposedly true breeding for a number of things, the plants look fairly uniform thus far. Some more vigorous than others, big fat ass indica leaves.

Since we're on the topic of old school genetics, I'm also doing 18 Black Widows and 6 sweet skunks (also peakseedsbc). 

Plus Sannies Sugar Punch (6x), Extrema (5x), Mad Shack (1x), Critical Mass 33 freebie, Purple Kush x Blueberry (peakseeds again)x5 and that's it for now.

Next up? 

Maybe MNS Critical Mass, NLxHaze, TGA Vortex, C99 from Peakseeds, Kush x Skunk (PSBC again), or Cheese #1 from kaliman. 

If I run em... I'll pop em all. I'm fuckin tired of the local genetics for the most part, so it goes. 

I also have my killing fields coming back into my stable in about 3 weeks. 

I also have some Tombstone gifted to me by Phx which are in the ground at a friends (10x) and Qush (also at friends). Those will be run eventually. I wanted to get em in the ground though before I could really get started so we'll see how they end up.


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## blustarr57 (Oct 24, 2012)

Thank God you are doing this. I would hate to see all the true breeds gone. Thank you!


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## stealthweed (Oct 24, 2012)

bodhi had a nl cross sometime bet its legit too....


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## colocowboy (Oct 24, 2012)

The bodhi was like tt nl #6 x bcsc nl #5, one would have to have some exp with those breeders to know what the parentage is like but it's supposedly dank. 
Mister Nice has the Ortega which is #1 x #5, I have eyeballed this one for years. It's supposedly got both representations in it's progeny. 
You probably already knew this though...


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## blindbaby (Oct 26, 2012)

black widow, is the real white widow. i grew a off shoot ww. they were near tastless. and not that stoney. but i have not tried the real mcoy, black widow.


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## hotrodharley (Oct 27, 2012)

Super Silver Haze. If the one I grew out is an example. Got big, grew tons of buds that stayed airy as hell, tasteless and a poor high. 2 bagseed indicas I grew by her blew her away.


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## redzi (Oct 27, 2012)

Sannies uses SSH in a few of his breeds (shack) and I almost bought a pack of Mr Nice SSH until I found out that they are packed in aluminum/mylar which can present a problem when xrayed by customs. I have some Shack growing in half fox farm half compost and it taste great and the buzz needs no mention. Maybe some of the problem with a few of the strains mentioned is that if your going to grow via hydroponics your taste is likely to suffer. I get why Holland uses hydro, top soil cost $$$$ but whey you can get fox farm's best top soil for less than $20 a large bag then maybe your just a gadget freak or have been mislead by a growshop owner who's priority is to point their customer in the most expensive direction.

terra firma =
hydroponics =


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## Clankie (Oct 27, 2012)

hotrodharley said:


> Super Silver Haze. If the one I grew out is an example. Got big, grew tons of buds that stayed airy as hell, tasteless and a poor high. 2 bagseed indicas I grew by her blew her away.



Where did that SSH come from? I've grown Mr. Nice's off and on, and if grown for its full flowering cycle I have never had any of those complaints, its one of my favorites, I just try to restrict myself to one 11+ week sativas. On the other hand, the one grow I saw (in person) of the GHS SSH would have fit those complaints to a T.


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## Clankie (Oct 27, 2012)

redzi said:


> terra firma =
> hydroponics =


You're a funny guy.
But hydro done well by a professional will blow a soil grow out of the water every time.
Not just in terms of yield, potency, bag appeal, but if given a proper nutrient blend they will have as much, if not more, taste than soil. What I like mainly about hydro is that I can keep my ops as sustainable as possible, and my hydro setups produce no wastewater, and no waste medium or containers.


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## Jogro (Oct 27, 2012)

Clankie said:


> You're a funny guy.
> But hydro done well by a professional will blow a soil grow out of the water every time.
> Not just in terms of yield, potency, bag appeal, but if given a proper nutrient blend they will have as much, if not more, taste than soil. What I like mainly about hydro is that I can keep my ops as sustainable as possible, and my hydro setups produce no wastewater, and no waste medium or containers.


I don't "get" it. How can you grow hydro without creating used media? What do you do with your used hydro media, or media you've flushed?

Anyway, in my opinion, there is no significant difference in quality between the best organic and the best hydro. I simply don't believe that either one blows away the other, as proponents of each (usually the organic growers) claim. Ultimately its all about providing what your plants need, and keeping out the bad stuff, and there is more than one way to skin that cat. 

But just to be clear here, if you really do care about such things, organic potentially *is* more environmentally friendly.

With organic, you can feed your plants entirely or almost so from composted waste vegetable and other organic material, effectively recycling your trash into buds. 

With hydro, even if somehow you never dump your media, the factories that produce the nutes to begin with are still creating chemical waste. You just don't see it.


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## colocowboy (Oct 27, 2012)

A lot of people use RO water too that is like 3:1 waste to remove tds, that is wasteful also.... just saying


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## hsfkush (Oct 27, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> I had a similar experience with my Nirvanas. They grew well, and while one smelled pretty bad, the other smelled glorious. But the decent-smelling one produced strong but quite indifferent smoke, while the other tasted like urinal cake but gave a better high. Neither was a keeper pheno imo. I was disappointed when smoke test time came.
> You could very well get lucky! In which case i would praise the pheno but not necessarily the source. i've known big outdoor growers here who grew GHS gardens, had a great time growing it ... then were simply outraged at harvest time. hay smells, Indifferent potency, ~meh~ buzz. Stories like that make me gunshy. *Oh how i miss Bros Grimm! Excellent strains, and they were not today's exuberantly unstable polyhybrids*. cn



Female Seeds on Attitude have a C99 which is apparently an original cut from Bros Grimm or something along those lines. Although I'm sure you already know this, haha.


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## yesum (Oct 27, 2012)

Clankie said:


> You're a funny guy.
> But hydro done well by a professional will blow a soil grow out of the water every time.
> Not just in terms of yield, potency, bag appeal, but if given a proper nutrient blend they will have as much, if not more, taste than soil. What I like mainly about hydro is that I can keep my ops as sustainable as possible, and my hydro setups produce no wastewater, and no waste medium or containers.



I agree that good hydro is good pot and you will grow the plants faster but after that, no better in any way.

With your logic, vegetables should be grown hydro.


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## Mr. Bubble (Oct 27, 2012)

growing food for the masses hydroponically isn't as farfetched as it sounds. just because it isn't the way we do things now doesn't mean it shouldn't be done...


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## Jogro (Oct 27, 2012)

yesum said:


> I agree that good hydro is good pot and you will grow the plants faster but after that, no better in any way.
> 
> With your logic, vegetables should be grown hydro.


Actually, plenty of vegetables ARE grown commercially with hydroponics, most often (non-cannabis) herbs, and typically in a greenhouse setting:

Eg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK4s3e07KLA

Here is a mobile portable garden used for growing leafy vegetables in Qatar. Note the artificial light setup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnycizKw04s&feature=related


Hydro offers certain real advantages for some vegetables, like water conservation, but in general its more expensive to grow that way vs traditional gardening. 
If you're growing something that sells for $1000/lb (like undried medical cannabis flowers), spending a few bucks more for hydro isn't a big deal, say compared to growing something that sells for $2/lb like local tomatoes.


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## yesum (Oct 28, 2012)

^^ the tomatoes I used to buy from the store were tasteless, maybe hydro. Or picked too early. Grow my own now in soil.

My point was about taste or potency of buds. No better in hydro and usually worse.


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## redzi (Oct 28, 2012)

"if done professionaly"....exactly..by a "professional" does that mean using one of those nutrient extraction machines where you load you compost and certain microbe$ that is basically strained like a tea to get a concentrate?...I dont know the currrent prices but I have seen those go for well over a grand in the past.

Response to Clankie


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## Jogro (Oct 28, 2012)

yesum said:


> ^^ the tomatoes I used to buy from the store were tasteless, maybe hydro. Or picked too early. Grow my own now in soil.


Almost certainly not hydroponic, and I don't think this is a good comparison. 

Good tomatoes are soft, and therefore fragile and don't transport well over long distances. For the best flavor they also need to picked either ripe on the vine, or just right before (by a few days). As a result truly quality tomatoes generally only make it to local (ie farmers) markets. 

In contrast, commercial growers deliberately pick tomato cultivars (strains) that have tough flesh, so they will be resistant to damage during transport, and pick them early so that they have time to ripen over transport (in many cases artificially with exposure to ethylene gas). 

So the tomatoes you're going to buy on the shelves of any supermarket are always going to be inferior to home-grown ones, even if picked properly. That's the nature of that crop's market and it has nothing whatsoever to do with hydroponics, per se. 



> My point was about taste or potency of buds. No better in hydro and usually worse.


Again, you can't generalize what happens with commercial tomatoes to cannabis flowers. 

Lots of people truly believe that hydroponically grown vegetables taste better than farm grown ones, and I think if you were to try growing hydroponic tomatoes with your own strain, picking them at peak ripeness, you'd at the very least think there were better than ANYTHING you could buy in any store (if not better than the same exact strain grown in your backyard). 

_Edit: I'd add that you can grow your hydro tomatoes indoors in the winter, and even if they aren't quite as good as your outdoor grown organic ones, they'll still beat the pants off of anything you'll find on any grocery shelf anywhere from Oct-Feb. _

The same thing is true, to a large extent, with hydro. People growing hydro bud commercially for illegal sale are often under the same sort of pressures as commercial tomato growers. They're looking for max turnover, so they'll pick strains that give fast harvests and max yield rather than concentrate on strains that give best flavor and potency. They're not picking individual buds at max ripeness, they're not going to be meticulous about flushing, and they'll also often skimp on drying time and curing. So sure, commercially grown hydro stuff often isn't as good as home grown organic. 

However, my experience is that if you compare "apples to apples" grows of the same exact strain grown expertly via hydroponics (including proper flush and optimal cure) vs stuff grown organically under the same artificial lights, the two are nearly indistinguishable from one another to the point where I'm not really sure blinded "experts" could reliably tell the difference. 

Empirically, if you look at the stuff that has the highest potency in terms of actual lab testing, most of this actually is grown hydroponically. Again, I don't think this is because the hydroponic growing itself makes the weed stronger, but its just a statistical byproduct of the fact that its the medical stuff that's being tested the most, and this is mostly grown hydroponically. I have seen no empirical evidence to the contrary that hydroponic weed is any LESS potent than organically grown, with both grown indoors.


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## blindbaby (Oct 29, 2012)

this darn 'GREENIE" thing. everything we use, build, or manufacture, comes from the earth. so do we stop living, to protect it? some nuts think so. but, then, they dont work for a living, so its easy to chastize the logical amoung us. lol. i have just used soil. i have heard it is most natural. the one thing i dont like, is i cant leave for more than two days, or they dry out. maybe i should invest in a auto water setup, for such times. nothing is wasted. mother earth recycles everything. lots of products are organic. they just dont pay the extra, to have the "privilege" of putting "organic" on their lables. so then we think its not organic. all comes from the earth. crude oil is organic. so is natural gas. non- organic, comes from chemical makers, who refine stuff. three out of four blind taste tests, people say the non-organics taste better than the organics. so im a believer, that al gore is the worlds best con man, right next to our soon to be ex communist. i mean ex el'president'e. the old vietnam era hippys have finally outlived their usefullness, if they ever had any. im still here. but i grew up. i have to laugh when i hear all this organic b.s. i think using compost, and such, is a great idea. but with it, comes bugs. my organic potting soil, comes complete, with free fungus gnats! so i cook the soil. lol. now, the dead gnats are now compost.


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## PJ Diaz (Oct 29, 2012)

Quality isn't determined by the medium (hydro vs soil), it's determined by the skill of the grower and how they feed and care for their plants.


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## thecoolman (Nov 13, 2012)

tree king said:


> perfect time for this thread to get bumped i just posted this in the experience with sannies seeds thread
> 
> all i know is killing fields is the most overrated strain ive ever grown. it was a very week high and everybody was complaining about it. i cant believe how many people rave about that strain. after months of time wasted il never order from sannies again. 22% thc my ass. dont believe the hype people, i think sannie is breeding for mostly taste and yield and dont care about potency like us americans do. remember where you heard it first
> 
> i straight up grew out 60 seeds of the f2's and had a huge amount of phenos. none of them were impressive. there was 3 main ones the dark purple one thats grapey perfume, the one that starts out purple but ends up being green when dried that had the jack smell, and the green pheno that was straight jack. do you consider blubonic to be a great high potency strain? the blubonic i grow was so much more potent than killing fields. on top of that the chemdog double d was much more potent than the blubonic lol. so you can just picture where killing fields stands in the scheme of things. the funny thing is the looks of kf was so much better than anything else it looked insane. ive never had weed that looked so good but had barely any potency it seems like sannie was just looking at yield, taste, and looks and nothing else. i will admit though the taste was bomb



Couldnt agree more the killing fields looks pretty growing but sucks big time!~


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## tree king (Nov 13, 2012)

thecoolman said:


> Couldnt agree more the killing fields looks pretty growing but sucks big time!~


yes sir you are correct! seems like more and more people are starting to say this i had people talkin mad shit to me when i first said it now heads are startin to realize. the description to that strain is bullshit worst shit i ever grew


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## no clue (Nov 14, 2012)

PJ Diaz said:


> Quality isn't determined by the medium (hydro vs soil), it's determined by the skill of the grower and how they feed and care for their plants.


I am not sure I like this. So it's up to ME to actually grow good pot? So I can't just use shitty, lazy growing practices and blame the breeder when my weed sucks?


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## pabuds (Feb 1, 2013)

i agree some people can fuck up a good strain


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## daalma (Apr 23, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> My issue was it was a hermie monster on top of being a stretchy beast


 hate to grow it. love to smoke it


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## Kite High (Apr 23, 2013)

cannabineer said:


> I'd like to know. So far, i have three in my Avoid column: GreenHouse, Barneys and Nirvana. I'm not saying no good ever comes of them, but I've read about (and with Nirvana, experienced) serious inconsistency and a prevalence of lousy phenos. I've also heard that Dutch Passion is selling bunk.
> 
> The breeder I knew&loved was Bros Grimm. They are no more. I'm still looking for someone as good. cn


Ace Seeds
Cannabiogen
Postitronics
Flying Dutchman


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## kushhound187 (Apr 23, 2013)

Kite High said:


> Ace Seeds
> Cannabiogen
> Postitronics
> Flying Dutchman


after your recomendation, im going to buy a few ace varietys. orient express, china yunnan.

ive never heard anything bad about the others.

and just my two ¢, ive had great sucsess with mandalas satori, and almost every greenhouse seed ive sprouted. Im running superbed now. great strain. i believe all the greenhouse hate to be a myth. ive never had a issue


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## yesum (Apr 23, 2013)

^^ Get some ACE or Cannabiogen Panama Red while you are at it. Very nice sativa and measured uvb light will complete the trip for you.


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## Bear Country (Apr 23, 2013)

yesum said:


> ^^ Get some ACE or Cannabiogen Panama Red while you are at it. Very nice sativa and measured uvb light will complete the trip for you.


Have you ever grown out Barneys Farm Vanilla Kush???? I read allot of shit on Barneys....50/50 half love it the other half hate them.??????


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## kushhound187 (Apr 23, 2013)

Bear Country said:


> Have you ever grown out Barneys Farm Vanilla Kush???? I read allot of shit on Barneys....50/50 half love it the other half hate them.??????


Shawn told me it tastes like burmese kush. Or maybe thats the violator.... cant remember, i was fucking lit off some strong shit then. lol, a few say berneys is good, some is bad... i listened to the negative first, but someone pointed out i have no probs with greenhouse, which many hate. they said i should try em before i knock em. they were members i trust, so im going to try some out.
but no fucking tangerine dream. that shit sounds retarded. period.


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