# Drugs and Religion



## blaznb (Nov 11, 2009)

so lets here it. did the/a/some god or gods create herbal substances and why? 

my thoughts are that the christian god created drugs like shrooms and cannabis for our consumption. cannabis is one of the 3 principle spices used in the making of holy annointing oil. in the old testement it was burned as a sacrafice. the lord was angered because the israelites had not sacraficed it in awhile. in the wilderness the lord gave moses and the other israelites shrooms. god commanded an israelite whose name escapes me to sell cannabis at the market.


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## morgentaler (Nov 11, 2009)

No. But show proof of a god, and then proof of a god's involvement and I'd reconsider.

Cannabis is thought to have evolved in Kazakhstan, developing THC as part of the defenses that plants have often developed.


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## blaznb (Nov 11, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> No. But show proof of a god, and then proof of a god's involvement and I'd reconsider.
> 
> Cannabis is thought to have evolved in Kazakhstan, developing THC as part of the defenses that plants have often developed.


ya i heard it was cuz thc allows the plant 2 store more water. 

there is no proof of a god. it just takes faith. if u dont believe in god thats ur choice, but i actualy feel srry 4 u.


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## blaznb (Nov 11, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> No. But show proof of a god, and then proof of a god's involvement and I'd reconsider.
> 
> Cannabis is thought to have evolved in Kazakhstan, developing THC as part of the defenses that plants have often developed.


i almost feel like i should +rep jus cuz of ur free marc pic.


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## morgentaler (Nov 11, 2009)

You don't need to feel sorry for me. I prefer to live in a world where answers are found in tangibles, and not in substitutes for knowledge. Gods and mythologies are lazy explanations for the unknown. I just happen to find greater value in learning about something than settling for the explanation of someone who never looked for an answer.

Don't rep me for the Free Marc pic. Write to members of parliament instead


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## Mr.KushMan (Nov 12, 2009)

Assuming there is an intelligent agent or some form of designer, why would he come down to earth and set out a list of rules for us to follow, not animals, bacteria, disease? Why did he make a special book for the humans to live by, what is his goal? Is there a different book for every civilization on other planets? Or are we the only conscious civilization in the universe? Why are there dissenting points of view if there is one truth? Why is there so much that can be explained where the holy books claim divinity? There are an endless stream of questions that can be asked causing you to drop your jaw and reconsider your blind faith.

I think it was morgantaler on a different thread that said, just because you believe that a car won't swerve into your cars lane and hit you head on doesn't mean that it won't happen, it is just a reassurance that some need to have. The same with a GOD figure or an afterlife, it is just a lift raft to cling to, but it really doesn't matter because you are miles away from any land in the middle of a storm with waves crashing on top of you, and rain pelting your face, sooner or later you are going to have to let go. You have to just face the facts that religion in general is a way of explaining what couldn't be explained. As well many religions including Christianity are in majority astrological devices used for mapping the stars, and about moral control of the population. If you presented the idea of a GOD who punished the bad and gave the good a second life forever in heaven, people would jump all over that. The kind of disease and poverty that were very much prevalent in that day would have ignited an extreme fundamentalism from the word for word interpretation that is carried through the ages.

Quantum physic theory suggests that the universe began as an infinitely small point that was one entity, which then progressed to expand and divide itself into mainly light and energy, which were then divided into sub atomic particles, which then associated into an atomic structure and proceeded to condense as stars. These implications are profound, it details that when you believe something you somehow effect the experiment that you are observing, meaning that if most of a population believes something the dissenting thoughts on the argument are drowned out and cast aside. Not meaning the actual metaphysics of consciousness but just in a real world sense, I can't subscribe to the Quantum field theory or string theory yet, but have been experimenting with the revelation myself and have had very strong spiritual experiences in regards of being able to shape my experience. It also ties hand in hand with Eastern philosophy, so it is fairly easy to live by as most eastern philosophy is very minimalist, and the drug culture has taught me that with out so much as a sneeze. So with so many counter culture in absolute unison you may ask your self what is the true counter culture?

Peace


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## blaznb (Nov 12, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> You don't need to feel sorry for me. I prefer to live in a world where answers are found in tangibles, and not in substitutes for knowledge. Gods and mythologies are lazy explanations for the unknown. I just happen to find greater value in learning about something than settling for the explanation of someone who never looked for an answer.
> 
> Don't rep me for the Free Marc pic. Write to members of parliament instead


Jah could very well be real. its not a substitution for knowledge. who are you 2 put down other peoples beliefs? everyone deserves 2 practive their spiritual beliefs.

ive already written 2 ppl here on the american side.


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## blaznb (Nov 12, 2009)

Mr.KushMan said:


> Assuming there is an intelligent agent or some form of designer, why would he come down to earth and set out a list of rules for us to follow, not animals, bacteria, disease? Why did he make a special book for the humans to live by, what is his goal? Is there a different book for every civilization on other planets? Or are we the only conscious civilization in the universe? Why are there dissenting points of view if there is one truth? Why is there so much that can be explained where the holy books claim divinity? There are an endless stream of questions that can be asked causing you to drop your jaw and reconsider your blind faith.
> 
> I think it was morgantaler on a different thread that said, just because you believe that a car won't swerve into your cars lane and hit you head on doesn't mean that it won't happen, it is just a reassurance that some need to have. The same with a GOD figure or an afterlife, it is just a lift raft to cling to, but it really doesn't matter because you are miles away from any land in the middle of a storm with waves crashing on top of you, and rain pelting your face, sooner or later you are going to have to let go. You have to just face the facts that religion in general is a way of explaining what couldn't be explained. As well many religions including Christianity are in majority astrological devices used for mapping the stars, and about moral control of the population. If you presented the idea of a GOD who punished the bad and gave the good a second life forever in heaven, people would jump all over that. The kind of disease and poverty that were very much prevalent in that day would have ignited an extreme fundamentalism from the word for word interpretation that is carried through the ages.
> 
> ...


the mayans are believed 2 be ETs. i believe that those ETs are the spiritual messengers of Jah. science has no proof of life. they only have theorys like the big bang. it cannot be proven. so because of this scientist have created their own religion. they just dont have superior beings. why is one faith any less creditable than any other? and god had scriptures made as a guide toward enlightenment. there not rules. but really guidelines of morality, but u can be saved without following them by accepting the almighty/ almightys.

quantum theory is a religion without deities.

i believe religion is right. but i believe that they all have flaws. no one religion is correct. in scripture it says in the end of time their will be only 1 religion. i believe this means all religions will be combined and reised in2 the truth. XD


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## drumbum3218 (Nov 12, 2009)

Any time i've heard someone say they don't believe in God, or at least don't believe in the man-made image of God, they are immediately shot down by believers for "putting down their beliefs in God". To that I say don't put down other peoples non belief in god. People share personal beliefs and then scared people jump to "how dare you"s. I believe there is a higher being. God or creator, call it what you will. I don't know anything tho, and I wonder if God knows a whole lot more than we do? What if what some people refer to as God is just a macro version of us, just as clueless about it's existence as we are. What if we are just parasites in the body of God? The universe and everything we know to be in it from the entirety to quarks of an electron on an atom. Who is to say it stops there? What if our universe is just one body in a bigger, ever expanding sea of existence? Another shrimp in a bigger ocean. A number can be infinitesimally divided to be smaller and smaller, without every reaching zero, just smaller and smaller and smaller. So why does it not work the other way? What if the earth is just a cell in the galaxy, which is a just a microscopic cell compared to the universe, which is microscopic compared to ?? Does it end there? I mean our scope is so small. We only witness with our senses such a small spectrum of what exists even here on earth. Even if what we call our universe is the entirety of existence, we r still just as insignificant. 

hubble telescope. This cluster of galaxies was unseen untill the telescope took a picture with the lense open for several days exposure. What was previously invisble or black in bewtween the space of visible stars. Just look at the stars next night, and where u see dark space in between, imagine all these GALAXIES behind that!!!!


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## FoxCompany426 (Nov 12, 2009)

I look at it like this...

Life's decisions are yours alone. Whether you believe in God, a higher being or only science, we all have to coexist. Whether we're right, you're right, there right... nobody knows. 

Respect each other for their belief and move on. You can't force someone who doesn't want to believe you. On top of that, you still don't know.

As for the ones who downplay faith because they believe in tangible existence, take a second to think about it. If a scientist is trying to prove or disprove a theory, he has to have faith. Why else would he be performing the experiment?


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## morgentaler (Nov 12, 2009)

blaznb said:


> Jah could very well be real. its not a substitution for knowledge. who are you 2 put down other peoples beliefs? everyone deserves 2 practive their spiritual beliefs.
> 
> ive already written 2 ppl here on the american side.


Religion and mythology ARE a substitute for knowledge. They were stories made up to explain the unknown.

There are certainly better gods in mythology than "Jah". 

Practice whatever you want. Put it out in public and expect to be challenged.

If I say the Mariners are the best team ever, anyone else can dispute that. Your gods don't get any special exemptions.


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## blaznb (Nov 12, 2009)

drumbum3218 said:


> and wasn't the bible (started) written 60 years after His death, and only completed 200 years after His death? Not to mention the large portion unexposed to man, the dead sea scrolls are still sitting in the popes vault somewhere probably below his library in the vatican. They will probably never be released. I would LOVE to get my hands on them. That aside, the english bible alone has numerous variations. The english bible is FAR from the 'original' bible. Numerous translations and 2000 years of copies to get it to what we know as the bible. Some things just don't translate/lost in translation. After being translated and translated over again how can people cling so tightly to its words? The word for angel and messenger are the same in Greek, also in german heaven and sky are the same. Our bible was translated from the german version and previously from the greek. With just one word in our bible could change the meaning or interpretation immensely. Instead of an "angel (with wings) came down from the heavens" What if it originally said some message was seen in the sky? I mean paeganism was widely accepted back at the time the book was written, so what if it referred more to the sun, not the Son. and why not give thanks to the sun? We'd b nothing without it.. Hell, the entire Christian religion is just mixture of old sun worshipping religions with an added dose of FEAR and a new label on it. If you do any research you will learn that much of the bible, christianity, and most all christian holidays, stem from paganism, like it or not. I do not doubt that Jesus existed. I believe he taught enlightenment, much like buddah was said to have. but I do doubt that his message/teachings have been convoluted and completely missed over the millenia, for 'benefit', wealth and power . . Just about everything in the bible as far as traditions was adopted from paganism. Do the research before you chastize me for blasphomy. Don't shoot me for sharing what I happen to believe, just look the other way. Please take it with a grain of salt or not at all


the original bible was started on stone tablets over 6000 years ago. this is what i believe to be the true bible. when it was translated to the dead sea scrolls changes were made, and from there to the later versions of the bible it continued 2 change. around the time of christ and beyond certain additions were made. i believe that most parts of the word is true. but there are changes made because of corruption and the whole drug thing.


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## blaznb (Nov 12, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Religion and mythology ARE a substitute for knowledge. They were stories made up to explain the unknown.
> 
> There are certainly better gods in mythology than "Jah".
> 
> ...


believe what you want. but according 2 scientists life came from what was once nothing. the belief in god 2 me seems more creditable than life coming from non-life.


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## Mr.KushMan (Nov 12, 2009)

FoxCompany426 said:


> I look at it like this...
> 
> Life's decisions are yours alone. Whether you believe in God, a higher being or only science, we all have to coexist. Whether we're right, you're right, there right... nobody knows.
> 
> ...


Well if you were a scientist you would understand the scientific process. As an experimenter you are not trying to make something happen and then prove what it is, you observe something then ask the question why does it do this, then from there you would hypothesis and perform an experiment, if you don't get the right results, you try again or design a new experiment and rehypothesise, if you can reproduce the desired results and the math works then you present it and others can challenge your claims, as is constantly done. So they do not have faith, they are in fact skeptical of the results and doing everything they can to disprove themselves to save the social dignity. Because as scientist they understand that as far as we can tell everything in just chance.

I saw an interesting thing on the TV today on discovery. Apparently if a child sees a rock and it has broken edges and a rough top and you ask the child if the rock is like that because it was broken or do animals don't sit on it, they will if fact see it as a preexisting artifact of the rock, not that the rock is the result. Something to think about, was the world a result or was it preexisting as a creative concept. No way to tell but I know blind faith is not a moral compass, its more like a life raft floating on a current.

Peace


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## morgentaler (Nov 12, 2009)

> believe what you want. but according 2 scientists life came from what was once nothing. the belief in god 2 me seems more creditable than life coming from non-life.


Might want to actually read up on that.
Life didn't come from "nothing". Life comes from the stable arrangement of molecules in increasingly complex configurations.

In the beginning there were base molecules.
And it was good.
Some molecules gained or lost electrons, changing state.
Some of these molecules bonded with other molecules. Some decayed, others persisted - acquiring additional changes in state and complexity over time.
Increased complexity over time lead to the formation of amino acids, which are the basis of life and needed in the formation of proteins.
And as I linked in another post, researchers have seen Uracil created in the lab by the exposure of a pyrimadine to ultraviolet light. 
The building blocks of life forming in conditions available in nature.

And no burning bushes hovering about to claim credit.

So believe what you want, but I'll take science and the pursuit of knowledge over magical beings like Jah, Thor, Mercury, Shiva, etc. etc.


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## Mr.KushMan (Nov 12, 2009)

FoxCompany426 said:


> I look at it like this...
> 
> Life's decisions are yours alone. Whether you believe in God, a higher being or only science, we all have to coexist. Whether we're right, you're right, there right... nobody knows.
> 
> ...


Well if you were a scientist you would understand the scientific process. As an experimenter you are not trying to make something happen and then prove what it is, you observe something then ask the question why does it do this, then from there you would hypothesis and perform an experiment, if you don't get the right results, you try again or design a new experiment and rehypothesise, if you can reproduce the desired results and the math works then you present it and others can challenge your claims, as is constantly done. Gallaleio theorized on gravity, then Einstein revised and improved as did Ed Witten with string theory. So they do not have faith, they are in fact skeptical of the results and doing everything they can to disprove themselves to save the social dignity. Because as scientist they understand that as far as we can tell everything is just chance.

I saw an interesting thing on the TV today on discovery. Apparently if a child sees a rock and it has broken edges and a rough top and you ask the child if the rock is like that because it was broken or so animals don't sit on it, they will if fact see it as a preexisting artifact of the rock, not that the rock is the result. Something to think about, was the world a result or was it preexisting as a creative concept. No way to tell but I know blind faith is not a moral compass, its more like a life raft floating on a current.

And for your information god, or a creator, or a intelligent agent and science are not in exclusive clubs that can't coexist. Maybe GOD created the universe as a way to define itself, and we a result of the BIG BANG. What I do know is, the designer if does exist could not be a god that made the Earth in six days, no time scale would exist for that to be monitored. It didn't make a list of rules that if we don't follow has us enter a fire pit with a lava river with demons and torture for eternity, it doesn't make sense. It most certainly never had a flesh and blood child that walked the earth, although some would claim it. These are all stories for mythology, astrology, history and social control. Even the vatican has pronounced that the Bible should not be read as the word for word interpretation and in fact just a loose moral fairy tales. Even they can admit when they are wrong but people are so tied up in their ideas that they can't let go. It says something when someone is selling something but won't or are prohibited from using it themselves. 

I appreciate where you are coming from and I do think that everyone has a way to cope with their problems be it clinging to a life raft or swimming in the opposite directing and stealing their rafts away, but to give blind faith in something is waste of life. Me personally when I accept something just because it is something I cannot ponder, which is what I love to do. The time I spend in the moment pondering the workings of the universe, I feel like time stops. I don't have a care, I only have a life to look ahead to. 

Be thankful you have a life and forsake your vain and presumptuous desire for a second one.
-Richard Dawkins

Peace


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## blaznb (Nov 12, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Might want to actually read up on that.
> Life didn't come from "nothing". Life comes from the stable arrangement of molecules in increasingly complex configurations.
> 
> In the beginning there were base molecules.
> ...


magical beings? you should learn about the many creditable religions before you discredit them buddy. XD


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## FoxCompany426 (Nov 12, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Religion and mythology ARE a substitute for knowledge. They were stories made up to explain the unknown.
> 
> There are certainly better gods in mythology than "Jah".
> 
> ...


You speak as if you are so sure of yourself. How would you know they are stories made up? You don't have an answer that proves otherwise. Therefore, each and every person is acting on faith of what they believe. Be it science or theology.


Mr.KushMan said:


> Well if you were a scientist you would understand the scientific process. As an experimenter you are not trying to make something happen and then prove what it is, you observe something then ask the question why does it do this, then from there you would hypothesis and perform an experiment, if you don't get the right results, you try again or design a new experiment and rehypothesise, if you can reproduce the desired results and the math works then you present it and others can challenge your claims, as is constantly done. So they do not have faith, they are in fact skeptical of the results and doing everything they can to disprove themselves to save the social dignity. Because as scientist they understand that as far as we can tell everything in just chance.
> 
> I saw an interesting thing on the TV today on discovery. Apparently if a child sees a rock and it has broken edges and a rough top and you ask the child if the rock is like that because it was broken or do animals don't sit on it, they will if fact see it as a preexisting artifact of the rock, not that the rock is the result. Something to think about, was the world a result or was it preexisting as a creative concept. No way to tell but I know blind faith is not a moral compass, its more like a life raft floating on a current.
> 
> Peace


I wasn't speaking of having faith in the experiment itself, yet of ones ability to perform the experiment. Your belief in another persons ability is called faith. Since you are knowledgeable in science, you should know that variables exist in each experiment performed. These variables can cause tremendous inconsistencies with further examination, even with the most minute change. This being noted, no matter the care taken to remove them, variables cause the experiment to be singular in result. Even when several experiments are performed with consistent evidence, we still haven't reached such subatomic levels of observation to prove that they are indeed consistent and we may never reach that level.

The argument here is not that you are wrong and I'm right or vice-versa, it's that no one knows. 

Yes, I realize that we are striving for further improvements in science to reach higher levels of technology that can prove your theories. Yet another example of faith in science. You haven't proven anything except you rely on faith to determine your next move.




Mr.KushMan said:


> And for your information god, or a creator, or a intelligent agent and science are not in exclusive clubs that can't coexist. Maybe GOD created the universe as a way to define itself, and we a result of the BIG BANG. What I do know is, the designer if does exist could not be a god that made the Earth in six days, no time scale would exist for that to be monitored. It didn't make a list of rules that if we don't follow has us enter a fire pit with a lava river with demons and torture for eternity, it doesn't make sense. It most certainly never had a flesh and blood child that walked the earth, although some would claim it. These are all stories for mythology, astrology, history and social control. Even the vatican has pronounced that the Bible should not be read as the word for word interpretation and in fact just a loose moral fairy tales. Even they can admit when they are wrong but people are so tied up in their ideas that they can't let go. It says something when someone is selling something but won't or are prohibited from using it themselves.
> 
> I appreciate where you are coming from and I do think that everyone has a way to cope with their problems be it clinging to a life raft or swimming in the opposite directing and stealing their rafts away, but to give blind faith in something is waste of life. Me personally when I accept something just because it is something I cannot ponder, which is what I love to do. The time I spend in the moment pondering the workings of the universe, I feel like time stops. I don't have a care, I only have a life to look ahead to.
> 
> Peace


As for the time period of the creation of earth, who is to say that a day to a God isn't a thousand years to a human?

Everything doesn't have to make sense. Gravity still doesn't make sense and we've been studying it for a very, very long time.

What the Bible speaks of Hell and demons is an explanation of the sacrifice for the greater good. According to the Bible, those who do not follow God will perish for all eternity, while those who followed God's commandments reaped the benefits. Prime examples are our workplaces today. You don't reward an employee for sitting on his ass playing video games at his desk when he's suppose to be analyzing data, you fire him. The employee that works his ass off gets promoted and/or a pay raise. (except for in todays economy where you ask your boss for a raise and he says "hell no!" ) 

I respect each an everyone's position and belief. I do not speak as if I hold the answer to all life's questions. I do know one thing, though. I strive to be like my God, and I am rewarded with happiness and peace of mind. When you strive, you may be happy, but what happens to all that hard work when you're dead and gone?


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## morgentaler (Nov 12, 2009)

Wow, what a fantastic and educated response, "Buddy".

Enlighten us on your "creditable" religions.

By the way, you state in your first post that you believe the Christian god created natural drugs. Well if you follow the Christian god then you shouldn't believe in any other "creditable" religions, as "Jah" has a serious problem with people putting gods before him. 

That would happen to be any of those other religions.


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## Mr.KushMan (Nov 12, 2009)

Magic: 1. Possessing distinctive qualities that produce unaccountable or baffling effects. 2. any mysterious, seemingly inexplicable, or extraordinary power or quality. 3. A mysterious quality of enchantment.

Yeah I think that about sums up how those deities are perceived. Unless you speak of Mormanism, or scientology, which should be part of this discussion.....

Peace


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## FoxCompany426 (Nov 12, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Wow, what a fantastic and educated response, "Buddy".
> 
> Enlighten us on your "creditable" religions.
> 
> ...


Hehehe, spell check is a wonderful thing, eh?


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## Mr.KushMan (Nov 12, 2009)

FoxCompany426 said:


> ....What the Bible speaks of Hell and demons is an explanation of the sacrifice for the greater good. According to the Bible, those who do not follow God will perish for all eternity, while those who followed God's commandments reaped the benefits. Prime examples are our workplaces today. You don't reward an employee for sitting on his ass playing video games at his desk when he's suppose to be analyzing data, you fire him. The employee that works his ass off gets promoted and/or a pay raise....


The definition of social control.....

Peace


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## morgentaler (Nov 12, 2009)

FoxCompany426 said:


> You speak as if you are so sure of yourself. How would you know they are stories made up? You don't have an answer that proves otherwise. Therefore, each and every person is acting on faith of what they believe. Be it science or theology.


Sickness is not caused by demons.

The moon is not eaten by wolves that chase it across the sky.

The world does not ride on the back of a giant turtle.

Noah did not cram all the animals of the world into an ark and save them from a global flood.

The elephant did not get a long trunk from having a crocodile pull on its nose.

Hercules did not summon a tidal wave to clean up an epic amount of horse shit.

Osiris was not resurrected from having his parts gathered from around Egypt, except for the missing penis which was replaced with a gold simulacrum, and then sung over.

Cutting out the hearts of Aztecs each day did not make the sun rise.

There is no Ouroboros circling the ocean depths with its tail in it's mouth.

There was no Garden of Eden with a man made of mud, a woman from a rib, and a talking snake.

Volcanos are not enraged dragons beneath the earth.


You can believe it all if you want, because they are part of the mythology of cultures around the world. Whoopee for you.


On the other hand, if a scientist publishes the results of an experiment you can expect to be able to go out and replicate that experiment, whether it's PCR cloning in the lab or at home, amino acid synthesis, predictions of light distortion around massive objects, etc.

I don't have faith in science. I don't blindly follow it like a god. Science is evaluative not faithful. It takes measure of the world, looks for patterns of behavior, etc., and through repeated analysis confirms or disproves.

Faith is adherence to something for which there is no evidence.

Your god gave us Smallpox. Science got rid of it.

That pretty much sums it up.


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## FoxCompany426 (Nov 12, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Sickness is not caused by demons.
> 
> The moon is not eaten by wolves that chase it across the sky.
> 
> ...


I did not belittle you when I argued my position. I did not ridicule your disbelief in theology or your belief in modern science. I did not provide examples that have no substance in our argument. I did not speak as if I knew the answers, only my beliefs.

I do not wish to converse with someone who is so full of himself that foolishness easily flows out his mouth. I spoke in a considerate and meaningful manner to continue the discussion. I do not appreciate your response.

Your ability falls short in understanding the substance of faith, let alone the definition.


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## morgentaler (Nov 12, 2009)

Those were all examples of established beliefs at one time or another.

If you find any one of them to be unbelievable or ridiculous, feel free to evaluate the value of faith.


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## Mr.KushMan (Nov 13, 2009)

But what about faith is a good thing? Why is just believing something someone said at one time or another a positive thing? Does it prove that you can trust anyone and in turn anyone can trust you? 
If I ran up to you and said I just flew around the earth and now it is 2 days earlier than when I left, give me a phone I need to call the president. What about that is unbelievable or believable? 

A main argument for a god figure is that the universe just appeared from nothing, and since that doesn't make sense it has to have been made by GOD. Well where did GOD come from? Was he just always there? What makes GOD a more applicable candidate for preexistence then the universe? Because there is no solid definition of GOD, other than a personified entity, why can't GOD just be the miracle that we are here? Why do we have to shape our actions regarding a man in the sky as our guides? 

To me when people are using the word god so liberally as a real entity, it kinda makes me upset. I mean what reason does a GOD have to make a universe, is he lonely? Does he want a movie to watch? Don't just say because it's the way it is, how can a watch know why the watchmaker made it? If you are just going to say you have faith don't come here. I want answers as to why faith is well looked upon, or as I have said before is it just a life raft people cling to because they are unhappy with their own existence? Don't drag my unhappiness into this, I am happy enough watching the bible thumpers squirm. Is it just an unwillingness to think that all we have is right now. The future might not come, even in one second. The past is already gone, and one day we will all rest.

Peace


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## blaznb (Nov 13, 2009)

FoxCompany426 said:


> You speak as if you are so sure of yourself. How would you know they are stories made up? You don't have an answer that proves otherwise. Therefore, each and every person is acting on faith of what they believe. Be it science or theology.
> 
> I wasn't speaking of having faith in the experiment itself, yet of ones ability to perform the experiment. Your belief in another persons ability is called faith. Since you are knowledgeable in science, you should know that variables exist in each experiment performed. These variables can cause tremendous inconsistencies with further examination, even with the most minute change. This being noted, no matter the care taken to remove them, variables cause the experiment to be singular in result. Even when several experiments are performed with consistent evidence, we still haven't reached such subatomic levels of observation to prove that they are indeed consistent and we may never reach that level.
> 
> ...


who do you worship?


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## blaznb (Nov 13, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Wow, what a fantastic and educated response, "Buddy".
> 
> Enlighten us on your "creditable" religions.
> 
> ...


i dont believe in any creditable religion other than christianity, but i think every being deserves to practive their beliefs. as it was said before no one really knows the truth. i could be wrong. the other religions could be correct. you could be wrong 2. why do you insist on putting others beliefs down?


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## blaznb (Nov 13, 2009)

Mr.KushMan said:


> Magic: 1. Possessing distinctive qualities that produce unaccountable or baffling effects. 2. any mysterious, seemingly inexplicable, or extraordinary power or quality. 3. A mysterious quality of enchantment.
> 
> Yeah I think that about sums up how those deities are perceived. Unless you speak of Mormanism, or scientology, which should be part of this discussion.....
> 
> Peace


the ancient hebrew definition of magic is witchcraft. the ancient hebrew definition for witchcraft is unearthly satanic powers. the mystical powers of the devine are not considered magic.


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## blaznb (Nov 13, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Sickness is not caused by demons.
> 
> The moon is not eaten by wolves that chase it across the sky.
> 
> ...


you dont know that. the disbelief in deities is just as nuch of a religion, because it is your belief that they do not exist. God could very well be real. you say u want proof b3fore god is proven real. but wheres your proof hes made up?


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## blaznb (Nov 13, 2009)

FoxCompany426 said:


> I did not belittle you when I argued my position. I did not ridicule your disbelief in theology or your belief in modern science. I did not provide examples that have no substance in our argument. I did not speak as if I knew the answers, only my beliefs.
> 
> I do not wish to converse with someone who is so full of himself that foolishness easily flows out his mouth. I spoke in a considerate and meaningful manner to continue the discussion. I do not appreciate your response.
> 
> Your ability falls short in understanding the substance of faith, let alone the definition.


he is just tryin 2 get others 2 believe what he does. he has made himself like unto that of babylon.


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## blaznb (Nov 13, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Those were all examples of established beliefs at one time or another.
> 
> If you find any one of them to be unbelievable or ridiculous, feel free to evaluate the value of faith.


u cant evaluate the value of faith based on certain individual practices. if only one is true then obviously there will be rediculous theories of different religions.


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## blaznb (Nov 13, 2009)

Mr.KushMan said:


> But what about faith is a good thing? Why is just believing something someone said at one time or another a positive thing? Does it prove that you can trust anyone and in turn anyone can trust you?
> If I ran up to you and said I just flew around the earth and now it is 2 days earlier than when I left, give me a phone I need to call the president. What about that is unbelievable or believable?
> 
> A main argument for a god figure is that the universe just appeared from nothing, and since that doesn't make sense it has to have been made by GOD. Well where did GOD come from? Was he just always there? What makes GOD a more applicable candidate for preexistence then the universe? Because there is no solid definition of GOD, other than a personified entity, why can't GOD just be the miracle that we are here? Why do we have to shape our actions regarding a man in the sky as our guides?
> ...


God is not a man. he is a spirit. and he created us because he knew everything that would happen. and knew that he would love us all, just as a father knows he will love his baby before he/she is born. its not just because its the way it is. its love.


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## morgentaler (Nov 13, 2009)

blaznb said:


> u cant evaluate the value of faith based on certain individual practices. if only one is true then obviously there will be rediculous theories of different religions.


And what makes your Christianity, which borrows heavily from other religions, more correct than Greek, Norse, and Chinese mythology which have much more extensive writings and considerably less contradictions?

Oh, and don't forget that Australian aboriginal lore can be traced back over 30,000 years before the Bible was written.


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## blaznb (Nov 13, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> And what makes your Christianity, which borrows heavily from other religions, more correct than Greek, Norse, and Chinese mythology which have much more extensive writings and considerably less contradictions?


Have you been listening to what ive said? christianity only has contradictions because of ancient government corruption and the changes they made to the word.


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## blaznb (Nov 13, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> And what makes your Christianity, which borrows heavily from other religions, more correct than Greek, Norse, and Chinese mythology which have much more extensive writings and considerably less contradictions?


and i havent said christianity is any more correct than the other religions. I believe christianity is right. but for all i know another theory could be correct. as i keep saying everyone deserves to practice their own religious beliefs without persecution by government and ppl like u.


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## blaznb (Nov 13, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> And what makes your Christianity, which borrows heavily from other religions, more correct than Greek, Norse, and Chinese mythology which have much more extensive writings and considerably less contradictions?
> 
> Oh, and don't forget that Australian aboriginal lore can be traced back over 30,000 years before the Bible was written.


u seem like the type of person that believes in the big bang theory. no offense


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## Mr.KushMan (Nov 13, 2009)

blaznb said:


> u seem like the type of person that believes in the big bang theory. no offense


What does that mean??? Any half educated rational non fudamentalist human being knows that the big bang happened. I thought we were discussing the existence of GOD not the idea that GOD crafted the earth and everything on it in six days. We know that the universe expanded from the big bang because there is evidence to back up the claim. Not only in background radiation showing us the exact moment the universe was cool enough that the pure energy and light were able to settle into atomic structures but the current expansion of the universe and the tidal effects of gravity all point to the fact that the universe came into existence in this way.

Clearly school and rational thought has no sway on the shit that flips off your lips. To think that, just because you can't remember what happened, or imagine what may have happened, there is a spirit god that listens to the murmers of 6 billion people at the same time, made a list of 10 things we cannot do and if we do we go to a place of fire and torture and pain for all eternity, but he loves us.

Here is my god: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

Peace


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## morgentaler (Nov 13, 2009)

blaznb said:


> u seem like the type of person that believes in the big bang theory. no offense


None taken.

And you seem like the type of person that believes in unicorns. No offense.


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## cbtwohundread (Nov 13, 2009)

blaznb said:


> Jah could very well be real. its not a substitution for knowledge. who are you 2 put down other peoples beliefs? everyone deserves 2 practive their spiritual beliefs.
> 
> ive already written 2 ppl here on the american side.


 he walked among us so hes as real as the sun and the mo0n".,.,To love Jah is the beginning of wisdom
And knowledge of the Creator is understanding
For the Holy One giveth wisdom
By wisdom he made the heaven
And stretched out the earth above the water
And made a great light
The sun&#65279; to rule by day
And the moon and stars to rule by night
Wisdom is found in the secret place of the Most High "


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## blaznb (Nov 13, 2009)

Mr.KushMan said:


> What does that mean??? Any half educated rational non fudamentalist human being knows that the big bang happened. I thought we were discussing the existence of GOD not the idea that GOD crafted the earth and everything on it in six days. We know that the universe expanded from the big bang because there is evidence to back up the claim. Not only in background radiation showing us the exact moment the universe was cool enough that the pure energy and light were able to settle into atomic structures but the current expansion of the universe and the tidal effects of gravity all point to the fact that the universe came into existence in this way.
> 
> Clearly school and rational thought has no sway on the shit that flips off your lips. To think that, just because you can't remember what happened, or imagine what may have happened, there is a spirit god that listens to the murmers of 6 billion people at the same time, made a list of 10 things we cannot do and if we do we go to a place of fire and torture and pain for all eternity, but he loves us.
> 
> ...


its called the big bang theory because its a theory. it cant be without a doubt 100% proven. the theory began because of the formation of gasses and such, but it is yet 2 be proven. read the bible. u have no idea what ur talkin about. if u believe in the almighty your sins are forgiven and you are granted entrance to heaven. we all fall short of the glory of god and do not deserve salvation. but the lord so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son 2 die 4 our sins. for whoever shall believe in his name and what he has done shall be granted entrance into the kingdon of heaven. (not exact scripture, but its the gist of it)


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## blaznb (Nov 13, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> None taken.
> 
> And you seem like the type of person that believes in unicorns. No offense.


well i do believe that as a ounishment the lord has closed off our eyes from reality as a test. i believe that when we take certain drugs the lord is pleased and opens our eyes. hallucinogeons are proven to open the mind and allow more receptors to interact with eachother, so i think when we use these drugs its a holy sacrament jah is pleased and opens our minds and allows us 2 witness true spiritual reality. so if someone sees a unicorn on shrooms it is a real unicorn that is an angel, or messenger sent by god. even if it doesnt speak the image of it is a spiritual sign 2 me. plz do not critisize me for my beliefs as i have not critisized yours even though i do not agree with them.


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## blaznb (Nov 13, 2009)

cbtwohundread said:


> he walked among us so hes as real as the sun and the mo0n".,.,To love Jah is the beginning of wisdom
> And knowledge of the Creator is understanding
> For the Holy One giveth wisdom
> By wisdom he made the heaven
> ...



that was deep, and very true. +rep for ur philosophical comment.


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## morgentaler (Nov 13, 2009)

blaznb said:


> its called the big bang theory because its a theory. it cant be without a doubt 100% proven. the theory began because of the formation of gasses and such, but it is yet 2 be proven. read the bible.


Scientific theories are built on volumes of evidence.

The bible is not. The bible is a series of statements of supernatural causes and events without supporting evidence.

Beer was invented before Christianity. It's temples are a lot more fun too.


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## morgentaler (Nov 13, 2009)

blaznb said:


> so if someone sees a unicorn on shrooms it is a real unicorn that is an angel, or messenger sent by god. even if it doesnt speak the image of it is a spiritual sign 2 me. plz do not critisize me for my beliefs as i have not critisized yours even though i do not agree with them.


I was referring to the repeated references to unicorns in the bible.

But I certainly agree that religion or god blinds people to reality.

But lifting the veil is as simple as refusing to adhere to the doctrine of whatever religion and looking at the world without adding Mr. Spooky to everything as an explanation.


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## blaznb (Nov 13, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Scientific theories are built on volumes of evidence.
> 
> The bible is not. The bible is a series of statements of supernatural causes and events without supporting evidence.
> 
> Beer was invented before Christianity. It's temples are a lot more fun too.


the oldest version of the bible began with the 1st men. it was written on the walls of the temple of eden. these markings date bacc to what is believed to be the era of adam and eve. man made beer, so it had to be created after. theirs plenty of evidence of christianity. the word speaks of the earth bein roun long before it was even a theory. how could the writers of the word have known things like this if god is not real?


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## blaznb (Nov 13, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> I was referring to the repeated references to unicorns in the bible.
> 
> But I certainly agree that religion or god blinds people to reality.
> 
> But lifting the veil is as simple as refusing to adhere to the doctrine of whatever religion and looking at the world without adding Mr. Spooky to everything as an explanation.


religion is not about mr spooky or scaring ppl in2 the belief of religion. its about love. the loves that god has for us. and the love we have for him. i love my lord, and he will save me. and ive read most of the bible and dont remember anything about unicorns.


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## morgentaler (Nov 13, 2009)

blaznb said:


> the oldest version of the bible began with the 1st men. it was written on the walls of the temple of eden. these markings date bacc to what is believed to be the era of adam and eve. man made beer, so it had to be created after. theirs plenty of evidence of christianity. the word speaks of the earth bein roun long before it was even a theory. how could the writers of the word have known things like this if god is not real?


The sumerians were drinking beer before Christianity.

Why did these prehistoric christians you speak of believe sickness was caused by demons and sin instead of being aware of bacterial and viral infection? If they're so aware of the origins of the universe you'd think they'd have a better grasp on nature.

I'd love to hear your take on dinosaurs.


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## Mr.KushMan (Nov 13, 2009)

That is interesting that you should mention about virus and bacteria, even pathogen theory dictates that germs cause disease, it is a theory but people have enough sense to believe it and see the logical connections, although can never be PROVEN. Hell even the external world can't be PROVEN, it is merely a subjective hallucination. Check out solipsism, it is concrete as a philosophical view, and can even be practiced. A major argument against science is that most things are theories, and its true because human don't have the conceptual ability to imagine reality we merely see a best guess map, not everyone sees the same things but we relate to them with language. The brain is able to sense 11,000,000 bits of information per second but is only able to interpret about 200 bits/second this means most of our experience is just, in mind, an illusion. 

Peace


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## blaznb (Nov 14, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> The sumerians were drinking beer before Christianity.
> 
> Why did these prehistoric christians you speak of believe sickness was caused by demons and sin instead of being aware of bacterial and viral infection? If they're so aware of the origins of the universe you'd think they'd have a better grasp on nature.
> 
> I'd love to hear your take on dinosaurs.


yes but christianity wasnt invented till after the christ was crucified. scripture and belief of jah however has been around since man 1st walked the earth. prehistoric christians didnt believe all decease was caused by demons. some were, but nothing happens except by the will of god. it happened because the almighty aloud it. sometimes its 2 test your faith. sometimes its 2 punish us. and they had a very good grasp on nature. they grew the holy spice(cannabis).


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## blaznb (Nov 14, 2009)

Mr.KushMan said:


> That is interesting that you should mention about virus and bacteria, even pathogen theory dictates that germs cause disease, it is a theory but people have enough sense to believe it and see the logical connections, although can never be PROVEN. Hell even the external world can't be PROVEN, it is merely a subjective hallucination. Check out solipsism, it is concrete as a philosophical view, and can even be practiced. A major argument against science is that most things are theories, and its true because human don't have the conceptual ability to imagine reality we merely see a best guess map, not everyone sees the same things but we relate to them with language. The brain is able to sense 11,000,000 bits of information per second but is only able to interpret about 200 bits/second this means most of our experience is just, in mind, an illusion.
> 
> Peace


no we interpret just as much as we see, but only for a split second so we dont realize it. this is because of certain receptors in the brain that erases parts of your memory. without the erasing of memory your brain would overload itself.


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## blaznb (Nov 14, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> The sumerians were drinking beer before Christianity.
> 
> Why did these prehistoric christians you speak of believe sickness was caused by demons and sin instead of being aware of bacterial and viral infection? If they're so aware of the origins of the universe you'd think they'd have a better grasp on nature.
> 
> I'd love to hear your take on dinosaurs.


i believe in dinosaurs. but i dont think they became extink. i think they slowly evolved into dofferent creatures. this is an accepted theory by scientists because all the dinosaurs are very closely related to the creatures that still exist including crocodiles lizards and certain birds.


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## 420always (Nov 14, 2009)

if god is fake then what do you have to loose by beliving in him but if he is real then god help you


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## krustofskie (Nov 14, 2009)

420always said:


> if god is fake then what do you have to loose by beliving in him but if he is real then god help you


And what if god is real and he is the jealous type like the Abrahamic god (Jew Christian or Muslim) and you have been worshiping another god rather than him, then I would say you are Royaly screwed.


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## krustofskie (Nov 14, 2009)

blaznb said:


> the oldest version of the bible began with the 1st men. it was written on the walls of the temple of eden. these markings date bacc to what is believed to be the era of adam and eve.


And when was this that the 1st men 'appeared'? What evidence is there of this 'oldest version of the bible'.Where is this temple of eden? I only ask so you can provide us with evidence that these things are real, until then they can hold no weight.

Please don't tell me that it was 6000 years ago that the 1st men appeared on earth and received/wrote the bible (as you say you know of), if that is so I will then know what you say are fallacies that you have either fallen for, made up or been indoctrinated to. It is thought man (homo sapiens) has been around 300,000 years, that is as much as the evidence shows us so far. This can only be proven to a certain degree and 300,000 is a rough estimate, as are most things when we talk time lines in the hundreds of thousands. But regardless of not being able to prove exactly how long we have been about it can be taken as an absolute certainty that we have been here a damed sight longer than 6000 years.


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## Mr.KushMan (Nov 14, 2009)

blaznb said:


> no we interpret just as much as we see, but only for a split second so we dont realize it. this is because of certain receptors in the brain that erases parts of your memory. without the erasing of memory your brain would overload itself.


NO! We do this and this and this so your wrong!

Peace


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## morgentaler (Nov 14, 2009)

I've never run into someone who said they believed in the garden of eden AND evolution/dinosaurs in the same conversation.

So while everything in the world has been evolving over millions of years, man just appeared in a special garden one day?


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## Mr.KushMan (Nov 14, 2009)

It is clear he is just here for the attention. He doesn't really believe this stuff, if he was a believer I am sure he would take check of that stuff, or maybe just an eight year old fool heartedly defending baseless OVEREXAGGERATED claims, with neither fact nor consistent sourcing.

Peace


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## 420always (Nov 14, 2009)

ill say a prayer for you fools


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## morgentaler (Nov 14, 2009)

Well, prayer IS for fools. We know that much.


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## krustofskie (Nov 14, 2009)

420always said:


> ill say a prayer for you fools


Save your breath, not interested in your foolish prayers.


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## blaznb (Nov 14, 2009)

krustofskie said:


> And when was this that the 1st men 'appeared'? What evidence is there of this 'oldest version of the bible'.Where is this temple of eden? I only ask so you can provide us with evidence that these things are real, until then they can hold no weight.
> 
> Please don't tell me that it was 6000 years ago that the 1st men appeared on earth and received/wrote the bible (as you say you know of), if that is so I will then know what you say are fallacies that you have either fallen for, made up or been indoctrinated to. It is thought man (homo sapiens) has been around 300,000 years, that is as much as the evidence shows us so far. This can only be proven to a certain degree and 300,000 is a rough estimate, as are most things when we talk time lines in the hundreds of thousands. But regardless of not being able to prove exactly how long we have been about it can be taken as an absolute certainty that we have been here a damed sight longer than 6000 years.


The mayans are said to be the first civilization on earth. the mayan theory of when inteligent life began was a lil over 6000 years ago if im not mistaken. ill try 2 find the link for the garden of eden.


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## blaznb (Nov 14, 2009)

blaznb said:


> The mayans are said to be the first civilization on earth. the mayan theory of when inteligent life began was a lil over 6000 years ago if im not mistaken. ill try 2 find the link for the garden of eden.


i mean temple of eden


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## blaznb (Nov 14, 2009)

blaznb said:


> i mean temple of eden


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1157784/Do-mysterious-stones-mark-site-Garden-Eden.html


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## blaznb (Nov 14, 2009)

Mr.KushMan said:


> NO! We do this and this and this so your wrong!
> 
> Peace


dood i saw a documentary about it. i doubt its wrong.


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## blaznb (Nov 14, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> I've never run into someone who said they believed in the garden of eden AND evolution/dinosaurs in the same conversation.
> 
> So while everything in the world has been evolving over millions of years, man just appeared in a special garden one day?


whose 2 say it was rele that long ago? maybe the timeline is screwed. maybe the force of the great flood made the earth seem older. who rele knows. its just a theory that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. so that explanation isnt any more accepted than any other theory scientific or religious.


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## blaznb (Nov 14, 2009)

Mr.KushMan said:


> It is clear he is just here for the attention. He doesn't really believe this stuff, if he was a believer I am sure he would take check of that stuff, or maybe just an eight year old fool heartedly defending baseless OVEREXAGGERATED claims, with neither fact nor consistent sourcing.
> 
> Peace


theres many philosophies of the bible. whose 2 say my interpretation is any less accepted than the christian churches?


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## blaznb (Nov 14, 2009)

morgentaler said:


> Well, prayer IS for fools. We know that much.


No its not. Its for ppl who wish 2 follow a path of righteousness.


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## blaznb (Nov 14, 2009)

krustofskie said:


> Save your breath, not interested in your foolish prayers.


thats not very nice. hes welcome 2 his beliefs.


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## morgentaler (Nov 14, 2009)

> so that explanation isnt any more accepted than any other theory scientific or religious.


You're talking utter nonsense. Completely making shit up as you go.

Theories are based on analysis of evidence. The bible is not built on evidence, but decree.

There are specific constants in physics and chemistry which can be applied to geology, biology, paleontology, and anthropology to accurately date samples taken from all over the world. Where we might have been off by factors of 10 one hundred years ago, due to the limits of technology at the time, the accuracy of instrumentation and the knowledge garnered from various fields makes for dating samples with great precision now.

Which makes more sense? Dating through radioactive decay, carbon-14, iridium in rock strata due to meteorite impact and post impact sedimentation, geological timelines established from placement of increasingly complex organisms, OR chapter one of the Old Testament.

You could dismiss the increasing knowledge of hundreds of years of science in favor of a book written by a bunch of ignorant desert tribes, but that would just be plain stupid.

The "Great Flood"? Didn't happen. The oral histories of Native American and Australian Aboriginals go back farther than either the Old or New Testaments. And they didn't happen to run into Moses or a worldwide flood. There isn't any geological evidence in support of a worldwide flood.

The Mayans were not the first civilization. They existed in loose settlements from 10,000 BC on and became a cohesive civilization around 2000 BC, and lasted until 700 to 900 AD.
The Sumerian civilization existed from from the mid 6th millienium BC to around 2000 BC with the rise of Babylonia.

It's interesting that the first four result pages on Google for "Temple of Eden" have zero historical or anthropological articles, nor any links to academic institutions. Sounds like more biblical twaddle. When the number one hit on a subject is "The Daily Mail", which is one step above "The Enquirer" in reporting standards, you're hurting for reference material.


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## morgentaler (Nov 14, 2009)

blaznb said:


> No its not. Its for ppl who wish 2 follow a path of righteousness.


If you want to be a good person do good things.

If you want to pretend to be a good person, pray.


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## krustofskie (Nov 15, 2009)

blaznb said:


> thats not very nice. hes welcome 2 his beliefs.


I agree he is welcome to his beliefs, but he calls me a fool for not believing his way then wants to say a prayer for me, thats imposing his faith on me, I don't want anyone to pray for me.


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## krustofskie (Nov 15, 2009)

blaznb said:


> The mayans are said to be the first civilization on earth. the mayan theory of when inteligent life began was a lil over 6000 years ago if im not mistaken. ill try 2 find the link for the garden of eden.


I have to thank morgentaler for his responce earlier, saved me writing it all out, which has shown blaznb to lack anything that equates to adequate research on the matter. It seems you have grasped onto the very limited and very sparse 'evidence' to back up you claim blaznb but I'm afraid most of it holds no water. You hold on to parts of the bible which have been proven wrong, open your eyes and your mind to the evidence out there and don't just deny the evidence because it doesn't follow the bible as that way of thinking is very close minded.

I would have +rep morgen but I havn't spread it around enough yet. Will do later when I can.


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## Johnnyorganic (Nov 15, 2009)

Some thoughts....

Religion *is* a drug. Opiate of the people, remember?

I have more trust that the Big Bang model is accurate than I believe the sun and moon stood still in the sky for a full day to give god's chosen people a better opportunity to slay their enemies. (Joshua 10:13)

There were no such thing as *prehistoric* Christians.


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## blaznb (Jun 30, 2010)

You have to belief in the proof for it 2 be real to you. unless your the smartest man in the world they could just make fake evidence and develope theories upon that..
every bit of knowledge comes from faith.




morgentaler said:


> You're talking utter nonsense. Completely making shit up as you go.
> 
> Theories are based on analysis of evidence. The bible is not built on evidence, but decree.
> 
> ...


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## blaznb (Jun 30, 2010)

You speak of things which you know not about.




morgentaler said:


> If you want to be a good person do good things.
> 
> If you want to pretend to be a good person, pray.


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## blaznb (Jun 30, 2010)

No. He prays for you because he feels you are lost. 
We pray for those who we think need JAH's help.
I don't expect you to believe in god, but i will pray that you find your way (if there is a god, which i believe there is).



krustofskie said:


> I agree he is welcome to his beliefs, but he calls me a fool for not believing his way then wants to say a prayer for me, thats imposing his faith on me, I don't want anyone to pray for me.


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## blaznb (Jun 30, 2010)

I do not deny just because its not the biblical way. I deny it because i do not believe it. 



krustofskie said:


> I have to thank morgentaler for his responce earlier, saved me writing it all out, which has shown blaznb to lack anything that equates to adequate research on the matter. It seems you have grasped onto the very limited and very sparse 'evidence' to back up you claim blaznb but I'm afraid most of it holds no water. You hold on to parts of the bible which have been proven wrong, open your eyes and your mind to the evidence out there and don't just deny the evidence because it doesn't follow the bible as that way of thinking is very close minded.
> 
> I would have +rep morgen but I havn't spread it around enough yet. Will do later when I can.


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## blaznb (Jun 30, 2010)

That is but your mere opinion. It hasn't been proven, so it's no more credible than religion.




Johnnyorganic said:


> Some thoughts....
> 
> Religion *is* a drug. Opiate of the people, remember?
> 
> ...


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Jun 30, 2010)

blaznb said:


> That is but your mere opinion. It hasn't been proven, so it's no more credible than religion.


 Not exactly sure which of my points you are dismissing as mere opinion, but it is *funny as hell* that it took you over half a year to cook up a response.

I suppose the addictive and destructive aspects of religion being compared to the effect of illicit drugs is a matter of opinion, but only as far as the definition of a 'drug' is concerned.

The Big Bang model is proven, even expanded, every time a new telescope is constructed. More evidence accrues all the time. When a particular theory within the model is incorrect, the theory is adjusted in accordance to the new scientific findings. There is no such intellectual honesty in Religion. If the evidence does not meet belief - said evidence is demonized, ignored, persecuted out of existence, or simply denied; until faced with undeniable evidence. 

Q: How long did it take the Church to admit the error of the Ptolemaic Model? 

A: A *long* motherfucking time.

Christ arrived on the scene *after* the written word. Hence no prehistoric Christians. That is not my opinion, that is a *hard fact*.


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## Zeplike (Jul 2, 2010)

Blaznb do you believe in christ as a savior and jah? ..as in the rastafarian view?


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## blaznb (Jul 7, 2010)

I don't believe that christ was reincarnated into an ethiopian, but jah is just short for jahova, which is the english translation of god. I do however believe in the rastarafi peoples interpretation of the bible and babylon is most aspects.



Zeplike said:


> Blaznb do you believe in christ as a savior and jah? ..as in the rastafarian view?


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## blaznb (Jul 7, 2010)

maybe it took me so long because my whole life isnt oon the pc


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## Zeplike (Jul 11, 2010)

www.patients4medicalmarijuana.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/jesus-healed-using-cannabis-study-shows/

"Jesus was almost certainly a cannabis user and an early proponent of the medicinal properties of the drug, according to a study of scriptural texts published [in 2003]".


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## TrippyReefer (Jul 11, 2010)

Obviously God put these substances here for a reason, maybe to make us think deep... but theres always a risk and as always, caution should be taken when using. Dont abuse and let your conscious find the answers, not what other people say.


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## kamonra (Jul 12, 2010)

i had to reply to you since your in the same city ..... look up kamonra's threads ... there is proof of the supreme being ... and every life that lives with the supreme life are gods ... me and you are gods .... once we learn how to do everything its gonna be blamed on advancement of science and not the advancement of our godly powers ..... the supreme being = sum{ (geological life)(biological life )(loose matter)}

the problem is ... weve been mislead .. so naturally you wont believe a lie .... the truth is the sun is god and the earth is godess.... the big bang or before the big bang ... that point in which all was contained in one point is the great supreme being .... see only life can produce life .. so therefore that point had to be life ... and if energy cant be created or destroyed .. then that concludes there is only one life form .. that is the supreme being ....which transformed (bigbang explosion) into other lifes suns earth , planets etc.... u see only life can create life . again name one non-life form that can creat life ....see the sun created the earth think about it the sun cooks hydrogen to make helium .. then those two together makes all other elements.... water oxegen carbon etc.... so the sun created us and the earth .. then the sun has to be a life form ....see religion makes you think god has to be some one we can command .. pray for this and pray for that ... nonsense... we are a fraction or a working organism with in the creator(supreme being) remember god is a product of the supreme being ...so me and you are brother and sisters and are gods.. all from the sun god ra .. who is closer to the supreme being .... think about electron protons and neutron all look like planetary systems .. well what do you think the sun and the planets are .. and all other stars that they now know planets orbit around them ...they are also like those electrons protons and neutrons .. on a macro scale... so jesus budha and all those guys were just people like me and you who taught this but unfortunately the romans made sure that was messed up for their control purpose.... and death your people are afraid of it ,... how could god allow so many deaths .. well death is a mere transformation so its not really bad at all to die your energy will be transformed into something else with other purposes..... so when the supreme being kills or god allows death .. it is not because it is a angry god its just sending you somehwere else .....point blank ...and if you want i can break this down for you scientifically and logically .....


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## kamonra (Jul 12, 2010)

first of all! MaryJj is not a socially corrosive drug. It is not even a drug. 
drugs are altered by man. So they termed it "psycoactive change in the brain" Under this term they still can not say it is a drug. So they deemed it a controlled substance. 
well! In church, if you catch the "holyghost" This is a form of psycoactive change in the brain. 
In many religions, they require psycoactive states to be altered in order to have a greater expirience, understanding, and relationship with god. 
It appears the Govt. has made a set of laws that would suggest they do not want us to have this greater expirience with god?


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## kamonra (Jul 12, 2010)

this is where the story jesus comes from : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLSe9z8yQ90&feature=related


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## kamonra (Jul 12, 2010)

Zeplike said:


> www.patients4medicalmarijuana.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/jesus-healed-using-cannabis-study-shows/
> 
> "Jesus was almost certainly a cannabis user and an early proponent of the medicinal properties of the drug, according to a study of scriptural texts published [in 2003]".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLSe9z8yQ90&feature=related this is where the story jesus comes from


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## kamonra (Jul 12, 2010)

you are right the great supreme being never wrote a book .. we are all part of the supreme being so we all know what is right or wrong .. we may try and justify why a wrong is a right .. but we know ... THE LAW OF HURT IS ALL IN CODED IN US


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## TrippyReefer (Jul 12, 2010)

Yo Kamonra, your views go a little extreme, even for me... But you do make sense on some things. The sun is a burning ball of gas, and im sure God can control it but i dont think it is a spiritual entity. When the sun uses most of its hydrogen and blows into a supernova and destroys the solar system, that is when the earth is done for. Unless its some rogue comet, then who knows... But in the meantime, toke up and live happy cuz life is short


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## blaznb (Jul 13, 2010)

ofcourse it was used in the making of holy annointing oil.
when he healed ppl he poured it upon their head...
Sounds like he had 2 of used it.




Zeplike said:


> www.patients4medicalmarijuana.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/jesus-healed-using-cannabis-study-shows/
> 
> "Jesus was almost certainly a cannabis user and an early proponent of the medicinal properties of the drug, according to a study of scriptural texts published [in 2003]".


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## blaznb (Jul 13, 2010)

if your doing it to let your concious find the answer it is not abuse..
its use.



TrippyReefer said:


> Obviously God put these substances here for a reason, maybe to make us think deep... but theres always a risk and as always, caution should be taken when using. Dont abuse and let your conscious find the answers, not what other people say.


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## blaznb (Jul 13, 2010)

a drug is anything thatcauses a change in the chemicals structure of your brain...
cannabis does this.
its a drug.
just not a harmful one.



kamonra said:


> first of all! MaryJj is not a socially corrosive drug. It is not even a drug.
> drugs are altered by man. So they termed it "psycoactive change in the brain" Under this term they still can not say it is a drug. So they deemed it a controlled substance.
> well! In church, if you catch the "holyghost" This is a form of psycoactive change in the brain.
> In many religions, they require psycoactive states to be altered in order to have a greater expirience, understanding, and relationship with god.
> It appears the Govt. has made a set of laws that would suggest they do not want us to have this greater expirience with god?


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## blaznb (Jul 13, 2010)

I havent clicced on a single of those links...



kamonra said:


> this is where the story jesus comes from : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLSe9z8yQ90&feature=related


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## TrippyReefer (Jul 14, 2010)

blaznb said:


> if your doing it to let your concious find the answer it is not abuse..
> its use.


Yup, but i have to hide this wonderful herb from 90% of the people in my life because of the stigma put on in. I need to introduce cannabis in the diet of certain people... lol


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## blaznb (Jul 20, 2010)

41% of american adults admit to smoking it.
why hide it?
even those who deny it smoke it....




TrippyReefer said:


> Yup, but i have to hide this wonderful herb from 90% of the people in my life because of the stigma put on in. I need to introduce cannabis in the diet of certain people... lol


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## mygirls (Jul 20, 2010)

blaznb said:


> so lets here it. did the/a/some god or gods create herbal substances and why?
> 
> my thoughts are that the christian god created drugs like shrooms and cannabis for our consumption. cannabis is one of the 3 principle spices used in the making of holy annointing oil. in the old testement it was burned as a sacrafice. the lord was angered because the israelites had not sacraficed it in awhile. in the wilderness the lord gave moses and the other israelites shrooms. god commanded an israelite whose name escapes me to sell cannabis at the market.


my thoughts are that many drug users hide behind the bible to look good.. and thats a shame.


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## blaznb (Jul 21, 2010)

We dont hide behind the bible, we just embrace it.
just because your religious doesnt mean your hding behind anything.
it just means ur able 2 think 4 urself, and not let scientists tell u whats real...



mygirls said:


> my thoughts are that many drug users hide behind the bible to look good.. and thats a shame.


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## mygirls (Jul 21, 2010)

blaznb said:


> We dont hide behind the bible, we just embrace it.
> just because your religious doesnt mean your hding behind anything.
> it just means ur able 2 think 4 urself, and not let scientists tell u whats real...


what i ment is that i know on many people that are still users on perole going to church hiding behind the bible to look good.. im not saying every one..


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## blaznb (Jul 21, 2010)

well theres scumbags. there not even christians if they only use christ 2 make themselves look good. id rather make christ look good.xD




mygirls said:


> what i ment is that i know on many people that are still users on perole going to church hiding behind the bible to look good.. im not saying every one..


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## Nickyj420 (Jul 21, 2010)

blaznb said:


> so lets here it. did the/a/some god or gods create herbal substances and why?
> 
> my thoughts are that the christian god created drugs like shrooms and cannabis for our consumption. cannabis is one of the 3 principle spices used in the making of holy annointing oil. in the old testement it was burned as a sacrafice. the lord was angered because the israelites had not sacraficed it in awhile. in the wilderness the lord gave moses and the other israelites shrooms. god commanded an israelite whose name escapes me to sell cannabis at the market.[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## TrippyReefer (Jul 22, 2010)

Nickyj420 said:


> blaznb said:
> 
> 
> > so lets here it. did the/a/some god or gods create herbal substances and why?
> ...


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## blaznb (Jul 28, 2010)

I need to many shrooms now aday to trip, but when i do dxm i feel like my sould is being succed down a wormhole.





Nickyj420 said:


> blaznb said:
> 
> 
> > so lets here it. did the/a/some god or gods create herbal substances and why?
> ...


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## blaznb (Jul 28, 2010)

most people do. ancient shamans used things like salvia dmt and amanita to experience "Om" depending on their religion...





TrippyReefer said:


> Nickyj420 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, i thought i was the only one who became more aware of God when trippin. You could really become stronger in faith if you do shrooms, but i have friends that do it all the time that just take it easy and relax. I still might do it in the future, but i will always keep my mind in a good place.


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