# My first vertical grow after 20 years of indoor gardening



## coldrain (Sep 14, 2013)

View attachment 2821195
I'm in the midst of my first vertical grow right now, but have 20 years of indoor experience. Don't ask me why I didn't try this sooner as I have no good answer. In the pic are 8 Girl Scout Cookies in 5 gal containers from same mom. The interior part of the circle is about 3' in diameter. I switched to 12/12 when they were 30-36". These pics are from T-minus 1 day and day 1 of flowering. I have the stinger (1000W Plantmax) on a chain and can raise or lower it as needed. What I did here is make a crossbar for each plant using 2' and 3' bamboo. I spaced the branches evenly and tied them to the lower crossbar. I'm now into week 2 of flowering (will post more pics tomorrow) and I'm about to install the second crossbar near the top of the vertical stakes. The plants have grown a few inches and are beginning to lean towards the light, so the second crossbar will continue to hold them vertical. My goal here is to form a circular hedge of sorts. The crossbars and well placed twist ties should keep everything uniform. 

I've been raising the light a bit to make sure that the tops are getting light. At the moment I'm keeping the top of the bulb maybe 8" below the top of the canopy and they all seem content. 

As an experiment, I have a horizontal grow in the adjacent room with 16 plants in 5 gal under a 1000W Plantmax. I have it on a light mover with about 3' of displacement (which isn't much). I usually use 2 x 1000W in that 8 x 8 room, but those damn hoods generate a lot of radiant heat. Part of reason I'm trying vertical is so I can get ditch the hoods. So, we'll see which room yields better. The plants under the horizontal are Blackwater- purple pheno, The White, White Fire and a couple of UW's. Different strains, but I'm still curious to see how this turns out. 

As I proceed through this grow, I'll post pics about once a week. Comments/suggestions are appreciated.


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## zem (Sep 14, 2013)

this looks nice, been wanting to do vertical for some years now, never yet put my head to it


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## whodatnation (Sep 14, 2013)

Subbed up for a vet doing something new 

peace


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## coldrain (Sep 14, 2013)

Yeah, here's to trying new things. We'll see, but if this goes well I will be ditching the hoods altogether. The only bummer about the vertical bulb is the glare. Be careful people and WEAR DARK GLASSES when you're working with the light on. Long sleeves might also be a good idea. Even with glasses on, don't look at the bulb and limit your time in the room. The UV rays coming off those bulbs are intense. They will burn the shit out of your eyeballs and will burn your skin if you hang around too long. 

Today I installed the second crossbar. As you can see in the pic below, the plants were starting to lean is as they get taller. 
View attachment 2822212

After the crossbars were installed the circle is more uniform once again. 
View attachment 2822216View attachment 2822217View attachment 2822218
The forward hanging branches on the lower part of the plant will be tied back as needed. 
View attachment 2822219

My next move will be to tier the branches so there are no big holes in the "hedge". The plants are getting nice and tall, which is typically the opposite of what I want in a horizontal setup. In this case though, plant height will directly relate to yield.... at least to a point. I'm thinking that I don't want the plants to get any taller than 48-50". Suggestions regarding plant height would be appreciated. 

This Girl Scout pheno is a bit lanky which lends itself well to a vertical setup. This is also my first grow with this strain, but I knew from the mom that it likes to stretch so I knew it would fit the bill. I wish I knew which cutting it is, but I got it from a good source along with the purple pheno Blackwater and a few others. All I can say right now is that the stems are really stinky. I was told that it's done at 65 days which is a little longer than most of my other strains, so I decided to keep it separate.

I'm on day 8 of flowering. Still using a little 12-6-6 and a squirt of Roots Excelurator. I'll start my flowering nutes when I get to week 3. 

edit: I hope everyone can see the pics. Sometimes they show up and other times there's just a link.


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## whodatnation (Sep 15, 2013)

Shizzle, I cant see the pics  

Iv gotten used to working around vert barebulbs my eyes seem to have adjusted,,, I really need to start wearing glasses again though I dont wanna be practically blind in 15yrs! 
About the uv exposure though, the glass on the bulbs are made to contain most of the uv given off for safety reasons. If I could find 600w bulbs that allow plenty of uv out of the bulb I would love it.

Anyways, looking forward to the pics when I can see em, but all sounds fine and dandy.


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## coldrain (Sep 15, 2013)

Right, I can't see them either. Let me try something else. I'll copy the text from above and repost....

*Today I installed the second crossbar. As you can see in the pic below, the plants were starting to lean is as they get taller. 

*

*
After the crossbars were installed the circle is more uniform once again. 

*


*The forward hanging branches on the lower part of the plant will be tied back as needed. 
This pic looking straight down into the circle was too big to post as a thumbnail. 

*http://imageshack.us/a/img32/2492/kbf.JPG


My next move will be to tier the branches so there are no big holes in the "hedge". The plants are getting nice and tall, which is typically the opposite of what I want in a horizontal setup. In this case though, plant height will directly relate to yield.... at least to a point. I'm thinking that I don't want the plants to get any taller than 48". Suggestions regarding plant height would be appreciated. 

This Girl Scout pheno is a bit lanky which lends itself well to a vertical setup. This is also my first grow with this strain, but I knew from the mom that it likes to stretch so I knew it would fit the bill. I wish I knew which cutting it is, but I got it from a good source along with the purple pheno Blackwater and a few others. All I can say right now is that the stems are really stinky. I was told that it's done at 65 days which is a little longer than most of my other strains, so I decided to keep it separate.

I'm on day 8 of flowering. Still using a little 12-6-6 and a squirt of Roots Excelurator. I'll start my flowering nutes when I get to week 3.


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## chaeme (Sep 15, 2013)

If you find that you are having heat problems associated with using vertical lighting, I'd recommend looking into Fresca Sol's which I believe are carried by hydrofarm. They use water you can either run from a large res or a chilling depending on your needs thus allowing from them so sit much closer to your actual plants. I would also recommend looking into the idea of running separate levels of vertical lights for upper and lower canopy space. Perhaps using a 600 watt fixture for beneath the canopy break line. GSC, can't go wrong there though


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## coldrain (Sep 16, 2013)

chaeme said:


> If you find that you are having heat problems associated with using vertical lighting, I'd recommend looking into Fresca Sol's which I believe are carried by hydrofarm. They use water you can either run from a large res or a chilling depending on your needs thus allowing from them so sit much closer to your actual plants. I would also recommend looking into the idea of running separate levels of vertical lights for upper and lower canopy space. Perhaps using a 600 watt fixture for beneath the canopy break line. GSC, can't go wrong there though


Thanks for the info about the cooling system. Fortunately, I'm not having any heat issues. The floor level fan does a good job of displacing the heat directly upwards and away from the plants. If anything, the ambient temperature has been reduced just a bit because of the absence of the hood and the radiant heat that it generates. I'm also using a 1000W, so the 3' diameter interior circle that I'm trying to maintain seems to be about right. I could see wanting to have the plants closer to the bulb if you're using lower wattage, but shrinking the circle reduces square footage.... which is what I'm trying to maximize.

The separate levels of vertical lights sounds like a good idea depending on the height of the plants. I'm thinking that my plants won't get much taller than they are at the moment, but if they get taller than 5' perhaps running a second bulb would be the way to go. The 1000W bulb that I'm using seems to be perfect for a 4' tall plant (which is about where mine are at right now). Hopefully they won't get any taller, but I'm only about 1.5 weeks into flowering so they will probably grow a few more inches. We'll see, but I would say at this point that the GSC seems to be more ideal in a vertical setup than in a horizontal setup.

I'll post more pics later this week once I'm through week 2.


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## MrMeanGreen (Sep 18, 2013)

from my experience, the extra weight achieved is mostly from the lower budsites maturing properly rather than fluffy little popcorns. getting too close to the bulb massively reduces your light foot print. I find 8-9 inches from light to canopy is most productive for me. Only got a few yields under my belt but I can easily fit 12 plants around 2 stacked 600w'ers. Don't forget, stretch is your friend, more stretch = better light penetration.

Ya might wonna consider hydro and a cage to keep them fellas under control. Soil in vertical is hard work (IMHO) and the plants at the back tend to get neglected somewhat and are a pain to feed.

I just had to pull 8 plants from vertical 3 weeks early (moving house) and was gobsmacked to hit 23oz dried, pretty good considering not had PK boost or any bloom enhancers what so ever. Shame I couldn't let her finish. (and still a very nice smoke).


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## coldrain (Sep 21, 2013)

MrMeanGreen said:


> from my experience, the extra weight achieved is mostly from the lower budsites maturing properly rather than fluffy little popcorns. getting too close to the bulb massively reduces your light foot print. I find 8-9 inches from light to canopy is most productive for me. Only got a few yields under my belt but I can easily fit 12 plants around 2 stacked 600w'ers. Don't forget, stretch is your friend, more stretch = better light penetration.


Thanks for the advice. Mine are more like 14-16" away from the bulb, but I'm using a 1000w. I also had to expand the circle a bit last night due to plant growth. I did a bit of trimming, but I'm trying to do as little trimming as I can get away with. This is contrary to what I would do in a horizontal grow, but as you said, the lower budsites matter here. The Girl Scout Cookie pheno I'm using in this grow does have a fair amount of stretch which is why I went with them instead of other strains that I have on hand. 



MrMeanGreen said:


> Ya might wonna consider hydro and a cage to keep them fellas under control. Soil in vertical is hard work (IMHO) and the plants at the back tend to get neglected somewhat and are a pain to feed.


I am using bamboo crossbars to train the plants. They're kind of hard to see in the pics, but they're doing a decent job at the moment. I might need to use another stake later as a mast if the plant weight starts to make them lean over. As for hydro, I've never been a fan. I prefer soil for various reasons. Yes, it's more labor intensive in some ways, but in my humble opinion, the best tasting buds come from soil. I also have the occasional power outage where I live and that would add an extra layer of stress that I don't need. *edit* Oh, and I forgot to add that I can walk almost all the way around the outside of my circle, so I'm able to access all of the plants pretty easily. It's an 8x8 room. 



MrMeanGreen said:


> I just had to pull 8 plants from vertical 3 weeks early (moving house) and was gobsmacked to hit 23oz dried, pretty good considering not had PK boost or any bloom enhancers what so ever. Shame I couldn't let her finish. (and still a very nice smoke).


That's awesome. 23 z's from 8 indoor plants is pretty good. I always go for quality over quantity, so a lot of strains I use are more on the average side when it comes to yield. I'm okay with 2 z's per plant. Anything less makes me frown, but I don't often find strains that have the best of both worlds. I've gotten as much as 6 z's off one plant before, but it's usually more like 2-3.


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## coldrain (Sep 21, 2013)

Here's my week 3 update. Lately, my temps have been maxing out at 80 degrees. Lows have been near 70. The environment in my rooms doesn't fluctuate too much, but since fall is coming on the temps will lower a bit. In the winter I typically see temps in the 60-75 range. The keep the humidity at 30-40%. It goes a bit lower in the summer and I don't need a dehumidifier year round, but I have it plugged in 8 months of the year. As I mentioned, it's a basement so the dehumidifier is a must. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to grow down there year around. 



Since I'm now into week 3 I don't think the plants will get any taller, but some of them have approached 50". I'm a little concerned about the tops not getting enough light and I've been raising the bulb some, but they haven't been leaning so I'm assuming that they are getting enough light. I'm also wondering how much trimming I should do. I hate scraggly buds and I trim aggressively in a horizontal setup, but I don't want to trim too much here and hurt the eventual yield.


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## coldrain (Sep 23, 2013)

I'm on day 17 and some of the Girl Scouts are topping out at 54" or 4.5'. The bulb is about 18" below the tallest branches and I'm hoping to leave it where it is. The tall branches are not bending inward, so am I correct to assume that they're getting enough light, or should I be bending them as needed? 

I'm seeing lots of budding sites beginning to form. I think this strain has the potential to do really well in a vertical setup, but time will tell. I will post more pics this weekend when I'm through week 3, but the photos will start to look more interesting come week 4-5 when they really start to bud.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 24, 2013)

Keep up the great work. Vertical growing is pretty great. I'm searching to find my key strains.


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## coldrain (Sep 25, 2013)

drekoushranada said:


> Keep up the great work. Vertical growing is pretty great. *I'm searching to find my key strains*.


In my 20 years of growing I've often found genetics to be the most difficult aspect of the whole process. Fortunately for me, I live in an area where a lot of people grow. I know several other growers and we all collaborate, share genetics and techniques. Still, it can take years to find genetics that fit the bill, especially if you're a snob like I am. I've tossed out a lot of _good_ strains over the years, simply because they were good but not great. 

In my experiences, I've found that the very best strains come from other growers vs. clubs and seed banks. I was very disappointed the one time I went to a club for clones. They talked the talk about the strains they had on hand, but it was all dogshit. That was Blue Sky in Oakland, CA. Seed banks are so hit and miss (mostly miss) that it's a waste of time and not worth even a small amount of risk. Usually you just end up with a F1 knockoff. My philosophy about seed banks and clubs is that if you get anything that's REALLY good, you got lucky. I only got a truly exceptional result from a seed bank once, and even that one turned out to be a hermaphrodite. Thanks for nothing, Marc Emery Seeds.

edit*** I didn't insert the links in the blue type. Rollitup did that on it's own.


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## Keif. (Oct 3, 2013)

Great thread. I currently only use vert in veg due to my space restrictions and a cool tube in flower..

I would be interested to see if my flower box could possible run a vert cool tube but maybe in a grow or two once I get this cab dialed in. 

Subbed.


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## RedCarpetMatches (Oct 8, 2013)

OMG is it true?! A long time grower trying something new?! I've seen it all. Big up to the ol dog learning new tricks!! How can we continuously improve doing the same old shit. I had to rep n sub.


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## itex (Oct 14, 2013)

Coldrain from what i have read 2 600w's would have been better for this grow so it gets the top part and bottom. This is what im going to do once i move to washington.


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## FuckJeffGoldbloom (Oct 26, 2013)

Looking good coldrain, interested in these vertical grows, and hope to learn much more ! 

Subbed up mate! Good luck

FJG


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## coldrain (May 9, 2014)

I never got around to giving a final report on this grow, so here it is. My apologies for not doing it sooner, but I moved out of the place where I was living right after I finished this crop. My suspicion about improved yield was confirmed. The vertical grow produced a very good yield, better than anything I experienced using a horizontal reflector. I will continue to use a vertical bulb (stinger) in the future. Of course, some strains that don't get very tall for genetic reasons will not be ideal in a vertical setup, but most strains will do well. Just make sure that you set up some kind of a "fence" on the interior of the circle before things really get going. The plants will want to lean in towards the light and you will have to do a lot of staking/propping. Next time I am going to use larger bamboo stakes with deer netting. The smaller bamboo stakes that you typically see in lengths from 2' - 4' are not strong enough to support the weight of a full grown plant that wants to lean into the light. 

The only bad news.... and it is pretty bad news.... is that the Girl Scout Cookie strain that I grew was a hermaphrodite. It didn't seed too bad and the buds were still pretty good, but the taste was affected a bit as was the potency, I suspect. It's really too bad because GSC would have been an excellent strain had it been stable. As it is though, I recommend avoiding GSC at all costs as well as any strain that has GSC as a parent. Don't sabotage your garden with this stuff. Since I finished this crop last November I have heard many other reports of that strain showing hermaphrodite characteristics. Another friend grew Animal Cookies recently and had the same problem. If you grew GSC and didn't have problems with seeding, consider yourself lucky.


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