# 3 days on jack's 5-12-26 and the plants are loving it! Bye bye General Hydroponics forever



## jonnynobody (Mar 10, 2021)

I took the plunge 3 days ago and transitioned my entire garden over to jack's 5-12-26 from GH's maxi grow / bloom, and all of the plants look fantastic at 647-675PPM! That's pretty incredible to me, and explains why my jack's grown flowers taste and burn better. I have to feed GH's maxi grow / bloom at 775-825PPM to prevent deficiencies. Jack's gets the job done at nearly 200PPM less. The plants are growing and are as happy as they can be with significantly less fertilizer input, so the plants are absorbing lower levels of elements and I believe this is directly related to flavor and burn qualities.

We've all smoked one of those fertilizer over loaded hydro flowers that scorch your throat and lungs. They often burn poorly, but visually appear like any other high quality flower. I believe it's the plant simply absorbing too many elements. Those elements accumulate in the plant's tissue. Flowers for instance, right? Who on earth wants an excessive amount of phosphorous or potassium in their flowers? P&K loaded flowers look great. It's all downhill from there. The flowers taste terrible, and they burn poorly due to the excess elements present in the plant tissue. That problem doesn't occur with jack's. I'm excited to post my post harvest quality report on the latest jack's grown flowers in the near future. Anyone else notice their flowers taste better with jack's versus other fertilizers that require much higher PPM's to satisfy the plant's needs?

Lights out at the moment. I'll snap pics and post them later tonight. I hate when I see a thread like this and the OP doesn't post pics. Just pisses me off


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## Failmore (Mar 10, 2021)

I have not harvested anything with jacks yet. I switched over this go and things are looking facking ggggrrrreeat! 

I'm doing the entire tap water chart with the bloom and finish formulas. Didn't buy the clone stuff. Not needed. 

Running the bloom atm for a week or 2. 

Starting to hate growing from seed. Plants are on completely different stages of life now. Makes running 2 plants on the same res much harder.


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## xtsho (Mar 10, 2021)

Jacks is a great fertilizer. You don't need cannabis specific nutrients to grow great weed. In fact some of the cannabis specific nutrients will fry your plants if you feed atb the rate they have in their ridiculous feeding charts using a dozen bottles of this and that. Too many people are hung up thinking cannabis is some special plant that needs all this special stuff. It's one of the easiest plants to grow which is why I can't understand why so many have so much difficulty and issues. Well I do know. They're overfeeding them with all this crap out there because they fell for the marketing.


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## Rurumo (Mar 10, 2021)

The idea that we should "push" the ppms instead of using the minimum amount necessary to keep them happy is what makes for nasty bud-you see it all the time, pics of buds with fried leaves everywhere. That's one reason I like coco so much, you can get away with much lower #s and just feed more often.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 10, 2021)

Failmore said:


> I have not harvested anything with jacks yet. I switched over this go and things are looking facking ggggrrrreeat!
> 
> I'm doing the entire tap water chart with the bloom and finish formulas. Didn't buy the clone stuff. Not needed.
> 
> ...


Great feedback man! Good to hear you're on the gravy train and not overpaying for fertilizer, and it sounds like it's working great for you!

My $.02 on Jack's marketing the clone and bloom mix is that they are just trying to keep their marketing consistent with other cannabis specific fertilizers. If people want to buy it J.R. Peters is going to sell it if it's fertilizer related. I'm sure the clone mix and bloom mix are great quality fertilizers. I feel they are unnecessary, and only an attempt to get some of that lack-of-information-cannabis-gardener $cheddar$  Everyone's gotta make a dollar in this world. They aren't over charging for the products, so it's not an ethical dilemma or anything like that. It's just more cash than you need to spend buying 3 separate bags. Clone, 5-12-26, and bloom. The 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate is all that's needed. I'd get lost in all the schedules and transitions. Way too complicated for me


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## jonnynobody (Mar 10, 2021)

xtsho said:


> Jacks is a great fertilizer. You don't need cannabis specific nutrients to grow great weed. In fact some of the cannabis specific nutrients will fry your plants if you feed atb the rate they have in their ridiculous feeding charts using a dozen bottles of this and that. Too many people are hung up thinking cannabis is some special plant that needs all this special stuff. It's one of the easiest plants to grow which is why I can't understand why so many have so much difficulty and issues. Well I do know. They're overfeeding them with all this crap out there because they fell for the marketing.


You should have seen my first pot plants I ever grew. I had this little suitcase called "techna flora recipe for success." Man did I feel cool. Had like 10 bottles of shit that made no sense to me, but I was instructed to use them all. And I did. I harvested nothing smoke-able. It was pretty horrendous looking. Then I got on the forums and started taking advice from other growers. Wound up landing on the GH flora trio with floralicous plus at the time. Worked great. Very expensive fertilizer though if your garden grows in time. Those bottles empty very quickly, and I just kept watching my money go to the bottomless pit of the hydro store. Those days are over thank god


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## Failmore (Mar 10, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Great feedback man! Good to hear you're on the gravy train and not overpaying for fertilizer, and it sounds like it's working great for you!
> 
> My $.02 on Jack's marketing the clone and bloom mix is that they are just trying to keep their marketing consistent with other cannabis specific fertilizers. If people want to buy it J.R. Peters is going to sell it if it's fertilizer related. I'm sure the clone mix and bloom mix are great quality fertilizers. I feel they are unnecessary, and only an attempt to get some of that lack-of-information-cannabis-gardener $cheddar$  Everyone's gotta make a dollar in this world. They aren't over charging for the products, so it's not an ethical dilemma or anything like that. It's just more cash than you need to spend buying 3 separate bags. Clone, 5-12-26, and bloom. The 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate is all that's needed. I'd get lost in all the schedules and transitions. Way too complicated for me


Not arguing at all with that. Def can go start to finish with the base. Just wanted to see how they did if I went the route they suggested. 



These 2 autos are Crushing it. Needs some trimming for sure. Been busy and lazy. Fiance is studying in the room so I don't want to make a racket atm.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 10, 2021)

Rurumo said:


> The idea that we should "push" the ppms instead of using the minimum amount necessary to keep them happy is what makes for nasty bud-you see it all the time, pics of buds with fried leaves everywhere. That's one reason I like coco so much, you can get away with much lower #s and just feed more often.


i feed mine in dwc 1x a day at 0.5EC.


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## xtsho (Mar 10, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> You should have seen my first pot plants I ever grew. I had this little suitcase called "techna flora recipe for success." Man did I feel cool. Had like 10 bottles of shit that made no sense to me, but I was instructed to use them all. And I did. I harvested nothing smoke-able. It was pretty horrendous looking. Then I got on the forums and started taking advice from other growers. Wound up landing on the GH flora trio with floralicous plus at the time. Worked great. Very expensive fertilizer though if your garden grows in time. Those bottles empty very quickly, and I just kept watching my money go to the bottomless pit of the hydro store. Those days are over thank god


I switched to a product years ago similar to Jacks but put out by the local hydro shop. I was getting my wallet cleaned out running multiple reservoirs for flood and drain. Money was literally going down the drain each reservoir change. I think the worst was the Botanicare Pure Blend Pro. I only did one run with that and then went to the GH 3 part. Both the Botanicare and GH made a mess. That purple GH Micro is some sludgy stuff. And that Pure Blend Pro is thickly sludge as well. 

Jacks is a clean running nutrient if you're doing hydro but it works fine regardless of hydro, soil, coco, etc... 

Less money spent on unnecessary overpriced nutrients means more money to spend on beer. If I'm going to be pissing money away I want it to go through me first.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 10, 2021)

xtsho said:


> Less money spent on unnecessary overpriced nutrients means more money to spend on beer


put that on a t shirt and i'll buy it.


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## .Smoke (Mar 10, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i feed mine in dwc 1x a day at 0.5EC.


I started using Jack's 2 months ago. Started @ my usual .8-1.2ec and had a bad P/Mg deficiency. 

Found I'm having to run 1.6ec veg and full strength 2.4ec in flower using RO water in hydroton hempy buckets. 

Not an issue. Plants are liking the Jack's, I just didn't expect to be feeding @ 2x my usual EC.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 10, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> I started using Jack's 2 months ago. Started @ my usual .8-1.2ec and had a bad P/Mg deficiency.
> 
> Found I'm having to run 1.6ec veg and full strength 2.4ec in flower using RO water in hydroton hempy buckets.
> 
> Not an issue. Plants are liking the Jack's, I just didn't expect to be feeding @ 2x my usual EC.


that's weird for sure. twice what you used to feed at huh? im using the jacks RO formula (with well water)and this is the first ive not needed to add Mg

what were your old nutes? 

so if you go by the jacks bag NPK ratio it's 5-12-26 plus the cal/nit which would make it 17-12-26, correct?? so like 1.4 - 1 - 2.2??


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## .Smoke (Mar 10, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> that's weird for sure. twice what you used to feed at huh? im using the jacks RO formula (with well water)and this is the first ive not needed to add Mg
> 
> what were your old nutes?
> 
> so if you go by the jacks bag NPK ratio it's 5-12-26 plus the cal/nit which would make it 17-12-26, correct?? so like 1.4 - 1 - 2.2??


I was using the 1 part Megacrop. 

Jack's mixed @ full strength is 2.2-2.4EC in RO water @ a mix of 3.6/2.4/1.2.


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## V256.420 (Mar 10, 2021)

Hmmm..............................3 days and everything is awesome. Please post again in another 42 more days and say the same thing. Then I will cheer and clap for you


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## jonnynobody (Mar 10, 2021)

Failmore said:


> Not arguing at all with that. Def can go start to finish with the base. Just wanted to see how they did if I went the route they suggested.
> 
> View attachment 4849442
> 
> These 2 autos are Crushing it. Needs some trimming for sure. Been busy and lazy. Fiance is studying in the room so I don't want to make a racket atm.


Great picture of your ladies man! They look healthy as a horse in it's prime. How far into flower are you? Those auto's are interesting. I've never ran one myself, but I hear they greatly shorten the seed to harvest time. I wonder how fast you could turn harvests if you ran a perpetual with auto's? Harvest every 6 weeks? 

And I'm actually very interested to see how your results are. I was apprehensive to buy the clone and flower formula. Let us know what you think when you've got a smoke report after harvest. I'm very interested to know how the quality is using the 3 different NPK ratios at different life stages.

A little hair cut defoliation will vastly improve your yield. How far into flower do you think you are?


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## jonnynobody (Mar 10, 2021)

xtsho said:


> I switched to a product years ago similar to Jacks but put out by the local hydro shop. I was getting my wallet cleaned out running multiple reservoirs for flood and drain. Money was literally going down the drain each reservoir change. I think the worst was the Botanicare Pure Blend Pro. I only did one run with that and then went to the GH 3 part. Both the Botanicare and GH made a mess. That purple GH Micro is some sludgy stuff. And that Pure Blend Pro is thickly sludge as well.
> 
> Jacks is a clean running nutrient if you're doing hydro but it works fine regardless of hydro, soil, coco, etc...
> 
> Less money spent on unnecessary overpriced nutrients means more money to spend on beer. If I'm going to be pissing money away I want it to go through me first.


I have no aversion to using a different brand as long as the value is the same as jack's. I hear lots of great things about mega crop. There's another one that's really growing out there, but I can't remember the name. I chose jack's out of familiarity and grow green had 25# bags on sale for $56 including free shipping. Fucker's had me boxed in. I couldn't say no


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## jonnynobody (Mar 10, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> I started using Jack's 2 months ago. Started @ my usual .8-1.2ec and had a bad P/Mg deficiency.
> 
> Found I'm having to run 1.6ec veg and full strength 2.4ec in flower using RO water in hydroton hempy buckets.
> 
> Not an issue. Plants are liking the Jack's, I just didn't expect to be feeding @ 2x my usual EC.


Wow that's interesting. I get weird leaf anomalies if I run my usual 1.8 EC with jack's. Every environment is different though, and if that's what the ladies want for lunch you better serve that shit up  I tried the recipe at 3.6g jack's and 2.4g calcium nitrate, but it was too strong. The canopy didn't look healthy and tip burn was evident. My lights are very close to my canopy though. Jonny has low ceilings in his flower room. As a result my plants drink a lot more water than a flower room in which the lights were placed higher. The leaves are sweating at a much higher rate and as a result they drink much more water. I have 5 that are drinking daily now. 2 of which are now drinking twice per day. I haven't even entered the 4th week of flower yet. I'm going to have to upgrade to 10 gallon buckets after this cycle. Watering 2-3x/day is bush league shit man


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## jonnynobody (Mar 10, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> I was using the 1 part Megacrop.
> 
> Jack's mixed @ full strength is 2.2-2.4EC in RO water @ a mix of 3.6/2.4/1.2.


How often do you water? My standard 5 gallon plants that aren't exceptional monsters usually go every 2 days. Jager was my first plant that required 2x/day last cycle. This cycle I have 3 plants that vegged for over 10 weeks. Fucker's are mucking up my routine because they're so dam big, but the harvest should be substantial. Only got 9 in there this cycle. I have 1 more blue dream hiding in a 4x4x6.5 under the Geyapex COB. That girl stinks so good I don't think I'll ever let her go. BD is a keeper.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 10, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> put that on a t shirt and i'll buy it.


Wish I could drink beer. God do I miss a nice solid alcohol buzz. I drank the swill man. Bud Ice. Cheap. Effective. Drink it with a spoon. 6 years sober last year. I do miss it, but I'd lose everything if I went down that rabbit hole again. Even tried non-alcoholic. I felt like shit for 3 days and had a significant reaction that was unpleasant. Doctor's say some people develop an allergy to alcohol and it changes the way their body reacts. That's me. Fortunately I keep a good stock of hash oil on hand to keep me lubed up between the ears 

6 1/2 years ago I woulda totally wore that fucking shirt!


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## Failmore (Mar 10, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Great picture of your ladies man! They look healthy as a horse in it's prime. How far into flower are you? Those auto's are interesting. I've never ran one myself, but I hear they greatly shorten the seed to harvest time. I wonder how fast you could turn harvests if you ran a perpetual with auto's? Harvest every 6 weeks?
> 
> And I'm actually very interested to see how your results are. I was apprehensive to buy the clone and flower formula. Let us know what you think when you've got a smoke report after harvest. I'm very interested to know how the quality is using the 3 different NPK ratios at different life stages.
> 
> A little hair cut defoliation will vastly improve your yield. How far into flower do you think you are?


I'm day 47 from putting them in the pot. 49 from seeds in towel. 

If you leave autos alone they will flower much faster and produce a fast small plant. 

It seems when you start mucking around with lst and what not they tend to veg longer and grow bigger. 

From what I have seen from my friend they do flower much faster. 

Whether or not you can get faster turn around is kinda up in the air. 

It seems like they flower and stretch at the same time. So there is no 2 week transition. 

Growing from seed csn suck tho when you want to change the nutes based on time. Left plant is deep in flower. Right side plant is not. So they are 1-2 weeks difference. Which means a staggered harvest. And a staggered finish. And that sucks for me...a lot.


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## Failmore (Mar 10, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Great picture of your ladies man! They look healthy as a horse in it's prime. How far into flower are you? Those auto's are interesting. I've never ran one myself, but I hear they greatly shorten the seed to harvest time. I wonder how fast you could turn harvests if you ran a perpetual with auto's? Harvest every 6 weeks?
> 
> And I'm actually very interested to see how your results are. I was apprehensive to buy the clone and flower formula. Let us know what you think when you've got a smoke report after harvest. I'm very interested to know how the quality is using the 3 different NPK ratios at different life stages.
> 
> A little hair cut defoliation will vastly improve your yield. How far into flower do you think you are?


Also...ill start up a journal in the next few days.


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## .Smoke (Mar 10, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> How often do you water? My standard 5 gallon plants that aren't exceptional monsters usually go every 2 days. Jager was my first plant that required 2x/day last cycle. This cycle I have 3 plants that vegged for over 10 weeks. Fucker's are mucking up my routine because they're so dam big, but the harvest should be substantial. Only got 9 in there this cycle. I have 1 more blue dream hiding in a 4x4x6.5 under the Geyapex COB. That girl stinks so good I don't think I'll ever let her go. BD is a keeper.


My buckets are Hydroton/Hempy that feed directly into the netpots/rockwool. From germination to harvest I feed each bucket .25gal every 6 hours.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 10, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> My buckets are Hydroton/Hempy that feed directly into the netpots/rockwool. From germination to harvest I feed each bucket .25gal every 6 hours.


So you're kinda almost running a flood and drain setup, but inside of a hempy bucket? Your plants look fantastic and I love the cleanliness of your garden. You're the straight RIU MacGyver dude 

My apologies for the 1980's reference. I realize the younger generation has no idea who MacGyver is


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## .Smoke (Mar 10, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> So you're kinda almost running a flood and drain setup, but inside of a hempy bucket? Your plants look fantastic and I love the cleanliness of your garden. You're the straight RIU MacGyver dude
> 
> My apologies for the 1980's reference. I realize the younger generation has no idea who MacGyver is


Thank you.
MacGyver is who made me buy my first swiss army knife. 

The bucket is top fed hempy. 2" high standard drain. Only 2" of the hydroton stays moist above the drain.
Not quite sure how it works, but it seems to finally be getting there.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 10, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> Thank you.
> MacGyver is who made me buy my first swiss army knife.
> 
> The bucket is top fed hempy. 2" high standard drain. Only 2" of the hydroton stays moist above the drain.
> Not quite sure how it works, but it seems to finally be getting there.


i'm trying something new on one plant. a auto-feeding dwc in a 12qt storage container. i built it so that it drains itself at the 2 gal point so it has the same water volume as my waterfarms. that way my feed timer that i had dialed in for the waterfarms feeds the same amount. 
i'm really sold on drain to waste dwc.


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## cobshopgrow (Mar 11, 2021)

whats your PPM scale?

to what i remeber from playing with hydrobuddy, maxibloom is quite high in P, easy to reach a 100ppm, dont think that much is needed.
also while it have calcium, its not really high in that compared to when calcium nitrate is used in a 2/3 part fert (likey our jacks).
maybe that makes a diference to you?


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## jonnynobody (Mar 11, 2021)

cobshopgrow said:


> whats your PPM scale?
> 
> to what i remeber from playing with hydrobuddy, maxibloom is quite high in P, easy to reach a 100ppm, dont think that much is needed.
> also while it have calcium, its not really high in that compared to when calcium nitrate is used in a 2/3 part fert (likey our jacks).
> maybe that makes a diference to you?


500 scale. I'm so not used to feeding at that PPM. I can't tell you the EC with accuracy, but I think it was 1.6. I think your assessment has some teeth dude. Maxi does a great job, but the flowers taste like they received too much of an element. And I have heard over the years P can negatively impact flavor and burn quality if too much is applied in flower. If maxi is high in P and jack's is much lower that would certainly explain the difference in flavor and burn quality. Jack's flowers tasted fantastic with no "element" taste or burn quality issues. My only jack's flower cycle was also my highest GPW I've ever achieved. In hindsight maxi did not improve anything at all in my garden from quality to yield. It was a mistake to have ever switched from Jack's.


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## Rurumo (Mar 11, 2021)

cobshopgrow said:


> whats your PPM scale?
> 
> to what i remeber from playing with hydrobuddy, maxibloom is quite high in P, easy to reach a 100ppm, dont think that much is needed.
> also while it have calcium, its not really high in that compared to when calcium nitrate is used in a 2/3 part fert (likey our jacks).
> maybe that makes a diference to you?


Maxi does have too much P-I've had good luck dosing a little lower then adding some additional potassium sulfate after the first couple of weeks of flower. The cal/mag levels have been perfect for me though. I'm going to give the Flora Pro nutes a shot soon, pretty similar to Jacks.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 11, 2021)

Rurumo said:


> Maxi does have too much P-I've had good luck dosing a little lower then adding some additional potassium sulfate after the first couple of weeks of flower. The cal/mag levels have been perfect for me though. I'm going to give the Flora Pro nutes a shot soon, pretty similar to Jacks.


It seems like the Florapro is designed for large scale commercial injection systems. Fertilizer is fertilizer as far as I know. Should work great in any hydroponic application. You'll just have to tinker around with the PPM's to find your sweet spot though, because their feed charts are based off of #'s per 100 gallons. Shouldn't be too difficult to dial in. Prices are relative to jack's. The only thing that bugs me though is Jack's advertises 0% heavy metals which is a big deal. GH's products are known to contain heavy metals. That's definitely a consideration when choosing a long term viable fertilizer.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 11, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I took the plunge 3 days ago and transitioned my entire garden over to jack's 5-12-26 from GH's maxi grow / bloom, and all of the plants look fantastic at 647-675PPM! That's pretty incredible to me, and explains why my jack's grown flowers taste and burn better. I have to feed GH's maxi grow / bloom at 775-825PPM to prevent deficiencies. Jack's gets the job done at nearly 200PPM less. The plants are growing and are as happy as they can be with significantly less fertilizer input, so the plants are absorbing lower levels of elements and I believe this is directly related to flavor and burn qualities.
> 
> We've all smoked one of those fertilizer over loaded hydro flowers that scorch your throat and lungs. They often burn poorly, but visually appear like any other high quality flower. I believe it's the plant simply absorbing too many elements. Those elements accumulate in the plant's tissue. Flowers for instance, right? Who on earth wants an excessive amount of phosphorous or potassium in their flowers? P&K loaded flowers look great. It's all downhill from there. The flowers taste terrible, and they burn poorly due to the excess elements present in the plant tissue. That problem doesn't occur with jack's. I'm excited to post my post harvest quality report on the latest jack's grown flowers in the near future. Anyone else notice their flowers taste better with jack's versus other fertilizers that require much higher PPM's to satisfy the plant's needs?
> 
> Lights out at the moment. I'll snap pics and post them later tonight. I hate when I see a thread like this and the OP doesn't post pics. Just pisses me off


You finally did it!


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## Rurumo (Mar 11, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> It seems like the Florapro is designed for large scale commercial injection systems. Fertilizer is fertilizer as far as I know. Should work great in any hydroponic application. You'll just have to tinker around with the PPM's to find your sweet spot though, because their feed charts are based off of #'s per 100 gallons. Shouldn't be too difficult to dial in. Prices are relative to jack's. The only thing that bugs me though is Jack's advertises 0% heavy metals which is a big deal. GH's products are known to contain heavy metals. That's definitely a consideration when choosing a long term viable fertilizer.


I'm obsessed with heavy metals in fertilizer, the claims these companies make are so frustrating. General Hydroponics, for all their flaws, actually use extremely clean mineral salts-you can see here, Flora, FLoraNova, and Maxi series are all below detectable limits for arsenic and cadmium. I encourage everyone to check each of their products on this website, https://apps1.cdfa.ca.gov/fertilizerproducts/ or the ones set up by Oregon or WA for 3rd party heavy metal testing of fertilizers.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 11, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> You finally did it!


I can't emphasize enough how nice it is to hold a reservoir for 4 days without fallout junking up the whole thing. The PH doesn't even move. If I set it at 5.8 it stays there. Some of my girls are drinking daily now. It's so nice to just scoop out 1 gallon of solution and water a plant without first weighing 2 separate dry fertilizer's, mixing, adjusting the PH, and then watering. Jack's for life. Jack's for sanity 

I want to try out their RO 1 part formula soon. I love the simplicity of a 1 part. The more simple life is the better


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## cobshopgrow (Mar 11, 2021)

got you, if its 0.5 scale its easy to convert for me.
1.6 isnt low, but what do i know, it worked for you.

interesting, did you used any MKP PK 13/14 or any other P booster? sounds like you didnt and are happy with the 12 percent P contained in the jacks.
a lot people, myself included add the P boost by using MKP week 4-5, if its sensefull, idk.
atm the usual trend is towards less P, as far i understood mainly for enviromental reasons but recent studies show not that much P is needed.
it does make some sense, as tissue analysis show just a few perent P ( and about 25% N 50% K), not sure atm about fruits, think its similar while P should be higher.
P have a important indirect role as transport molecule, its the only element which gets recylced in the plant.
well, one can read a lot and find proofs and studies for everything.
even worse when you listen to podcast and mix that up with studies.
there are nutrient uptake charts out in the internet, havent found one showing similar curves.








NPK Ratio & Nutrient Balance In Plants


You have likely seen the NPK ratio on the bottle of nutrients you purchased or are shopping for, but are you aware of how the ideal plant nutrient ratios change throughout the plant’s life cycle? If you aren’t already aware, nutrient balance is one of the most important factors affecting your...




hydrobuilder.com




this is one for example,.
another one, general for plants.

on maximun yield i found once a complete other one showing higher P uptake later in flower.

thats why i like such first hand reports like you did.

in the end all is a bit subjective, but for me its a proof that P isnt needed in such high quantities if you had a high GPW run with "just" 12% P.
also read the argument too much P impact flavor, no proof at hand.
have to say i am in the middle ground atm as i dont know better.
aiming for 50-60ppm, think it could be more like 30-40ppm, but no need for over 100.

i used one bag maxibloom longer ago with RO water and i remember dark i had some slight calcium problems, while there where for sure more factors at play at that time, a little calcium nitrate would had fixed that for sure.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 11, 2021)

Rurumo said:


> I'm obsessed with heavy metals in fertilizer, the claims these companies make are so frustrating. General Hydroponics, for all their flaws, actually use extremely clean mineral salts-you can see here, Flora, FLoraNova, and Maxi series are all below detectable limits for arsenic and cadmium. I encourage everyone to check each of their products on this website, https://apps1.cdfa.ca.gov/fertilizerproducts/ or the ones set up by Oregon or WA for 3rd party heavy metal testing of fertilizers.


Been smoking the shit out of maxi buds for almost 2 years now. Dammit I hope you're right


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## Rurumo (Mar 11, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Been smoking the shit out of maxi buds for almost 2 years now. Dammit I hope you're right


Lol, no worries, it's one of the cleanest fertilizers on the market, main reason I went back to using it. They use the same salts in Flora Pro, which is why I want to try it. What really pisses me off about Gen Hydro is how they try to actively deter small growers from using Flora Pro by saying you can't measure out small amounts, that you have to dump the entire bag into the injector tank or whatever...if you talk to a rep they'll try to steer you to Maxi, Flora series, or Flora Nova every time you bring up Flora Pro-the reason being, Flora Pro is dirt cheap compared to the products marketed to small growers. It's total BS, you use the stuff just like Jacks and in almost identical amounts.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 11, 2021)

Rurumo said:


> Lol, no worries, it's one of the cleanest fertilizers on the market, main reason I went back to using it. They use the same salts in Flora Pro, which is why I want to try it. What really pisses me off about Gen Hydro is how they try to actively deter small growers from using Flora Pro by saying you can't measure out small amounts, that you have to dump the entire bag into the injector tank or whatever...if you talk to a rep they'll try to steer you to Maxi, Flora series, or Flora Nova every time you bring up Flora Pro-the reason being, Flora Pro is dirt cheap compared to the products marketed to small growers. It's total BS, you use the stuff just like Jacks and in almost identical amounts.


GH got themselves in a pickle. They wanted to compete with Jack's stealing their market share so they made Flora Pro. But they don't want the average gardener knowing they don't have to get raked through the coals anymore for their other lines of fertilizer and can take the shortcut straight to FloraPro along with the huge cost savings. GH wants it both ways. I don't think I'll shed a tear for those profiteering cocksuckers


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 11, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> GH got themselves in a pickle. They wanted to compete with Jack's stealing their market share so they made Flora Pro. But they don't want the average gardener knowing they don't have to get raked through the coals anymore for their other lines of fertilizer and can take the shortcut straight to FloraPro along with the huge cost savings. GH wants it both ways. I don't think I'll shed a tear for those profiteering cocksuckers


Is flora pro cheaper?


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## Rurumo (Mar 11, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> GH got themselves in a pickle. They wanted to compete with Jack's stealing their market share so they made Flora Pro. But they don't want the average gardener knowing they don't have to get raked through the coals anymore for their other lines of fertilizer and can take the shortcut straight to FloraPro along with the huge cost savings. GH wants it both ways. I don't think I'll shed a tear for those profiteering cocksuckers


Exactly, they're so short sighted because it looks like a great product, i'd love to try the "hardwater" micro version, and it has high sulfur levels too, which I like. It's definitely a product they could have marketed directly against Jack's, but when you look at the cost of a 25 lb bag of Flora Pro compared to an equivalent amount of Maxibloom and consider they have the same ingredients only in different amounts, it's obviously just a callous marketing decision. They think small growers are ignorant enough not to notice.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 11, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Is flora pro cheaper?


$57 for 25#:
https://growgreenmi.com/general-hydroponics-florapro-grow-soluble-25-lb-bag-9-11-19?gclid=Cj0KCQiAnKeCBhDPARIsAFDTLTJnzQSyOfen8-fUTo_z3g390o-UZ5USrTlEhfSE8vzB4z5AkKFytDYaAtvREALw_wcB

Hard to hawk overpriced liquid bottles with FloraPro available for that cheap.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 11, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> $57 for 25#:
> https://growgreenmi.com/general-hydroponics-florapro-grow-soluble-25-lb-bag-9-11-19?gclid=Cj0KCQiAnKeCBhDPARIsAFDTLTJnzQSyOfen8-fUTo_z3g390o-UZ5USrTlEhfSE8vzB4z5AkKFytDYaAtvREALw_wcB
> 
> Hard to hawk overpriced liquid bottles with FloraPro available for that cheap.


Well damn!


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## Rurumo (Mar 11, 2021)

I love growgreenmi, they had it even cheaper a few weeks ago, grrr should have bought it then. I'll get a bag once I'm done with my current grow, I'll start using it with a fresh set of plants in May and do a journal.


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## Drumminghead (Mar 11, 2021)

Been using jacks with coco since i started and have never changed. No need to. I love it plants love it Easy as it gets.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 11, 2021)

cobshopgrow said:


> interesting, did you used any MKP PK 13/14 or any other P booster? sounds like you didnt and are happy with the 12 percent P contained in the jacks.


No PK boosters. I believe they are unnecessary and only serve to over fertilize the crop resulting in poor flavor and burn qualities. This is known as "dispensary bud" in legal states. Tons of 'dro overloaded P&K in the flower cycle that taste and burn like shit. Looks great though in the dispensaries big glass jar. The truth unfolds when you smoke it. I believe in using a balanced fertilizer start to finish. No fancy gimmicks.


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## Rdubz (Mar 11, 2021)

I can't wait now , it's on Order just waiting for delivery.. I did end up getting the entire line with clone and Bloom figured I might as well.... The onl6 thing I need to do is walk into store for some Epson salt didn't buy that from Jack's obviously lol maybe I'll start a journal as well I'm just starting brand new aero system with the Jacks as soon as I get it and it will be a first time for Nutes and System so we will see how she goes !


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## Autofire (Mar 11, 2021)

GH is in bed with Monsato. Nobody should run that shit. They don't give f about the customer or the plant, are a mega corp in it purely for profit. Plenty of better stuff to choose from. 

There's a really good YouTube vid where a professor dude gives a lesson on how to grow. He reckons the best fert is a basic 20-20-20 from seedling to harvest, and he was using jacks, growing in Coco with 50% vermiculite for silica. 

Doesn't mean I listened. I still run expensive premium cannabis specific stuff because I like the company. Shit works pretty dam good too.


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## Rdubz (Mar 11, 2021)

Autofire said:


> GH is in bed with Monsato. Nobody should run that shit. They don't give f about the customer or the plant, are a mega corp in it purely for profit. Plenty of better stuff to choose from.
> 
> There's a really good YouTube vid where a professor dude gives a lesson on how to grow. He reckons the best fert is a basic 20-20-20 from seedling to harvest, and he was using jacks, growing in Coco with 50% vermiculite for silica.
> 
> Doesn't mean I listened. I still run expensive premium cannabis specific stuff because I like the company. Shit works pretty dam good too.


So you run Advanced ? That's the expensive one that comes to mind lol


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## Autofire (Mar 11, 2021)

Rdubz said:


> So you run Advanced ? That's the expensive one that comes to mind lol


Nope. I use some gear called biodiesel. Pretty sure it's only available in Oz. Check out there insta page and you'll see why I'm using it


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## jonnynobody (Mar 11, 2021)

Rdubz said:


> I can't wait now , it's on Order just waiting for delivery.. I did end up getting the entire line with clone and Bloom figured I might as well.... The onl6 thing I need to do is walk into store for some Epson salt didn't buy that from Jack's obviously lol maybe I'll start a journal as well I'm just starting brand new aero system with the Jacks as soon as I get it and it will be a first time for Nutes and System so we will see how she goes !


Even if you don't start a journal stop by and let us know how jack's is doing for you. Congratulations on your new stock of top notch fertilizer on the cheap! Light speed ahead


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## waterproof808 (Mar 11, 2021)

I've been using jacks about 6 months outdoor. Its nice and simple for my busy work schedule but still produces good results. 1.8EC works good for me.


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## Rdubz (Mar 11, 2021)

waterproof808 said:


> I've been using jacks about 6 months outdoor. Its nice and simple for my busy work schedule but still produces good results. 1.8EC works good for me.


I could really use some nice and simple in my life right now ! Love it that's awesome I'm hearing so much good feedback ....


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## cobshopgrow (Mar 11, 2021)

yes, could be that PK boosters are just there to give problems and filling your ppms unecessary.
i may skip them too.



Autofire said:


> GH is in bed with Monsato. Nobody should run that shit. They don't give f about the customer or the plant, are a mega corp in it purely for profit. Plenty of better stuff to choose from.
> 
> There's a really good YouTube vid where a professor dude gives a lesson on how to grow. He reckons the best fert is a basic 20-20-20 from seedling to harvest, and he was using jacks, growing in Coco with 50% vermiculite for silica.
> 
> Doesn't mean I listened. I still run expensive premium cannabis specific stuff because I like the company. Shit works pretty dam good too.


you refer to bugbee?
he is using a peat vermiculite mix as far i remember.
i think he uses 20 20 20 but he would prefer 20 10 20, at least he mentioned that the fertilizer companys should consider offering this.
hes a strong believer in low P and said he did studies proofing it.
he recomend a EC of 1.3 (incl his 0.3EC tap) and say everthing below 1.5 is no saltstress, therefore fine.
not agreeing in everything with him, he gives this 20% also in flower, as he say the buds need N too.
for sure not wrong, but i dont see heavy needs for N in flower myself and see more a potential problem.

probalby the hardest to learn for a grower is to learn to give only whats needed.
the feeding charts out there are no help in this regard, while not so seldon seeing people having good results with over 1000ppm.
if we would ask around which ppm/ec people use i guess we would have everything from 0.8-2.4 EC as result.


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## thetruthoverlies (Mar 12, 2021)

Jacks is good shit. I use to run it with their cal-nit. I like trying new shit from time to time though... My only gripe with jacks was the blue dye. Are they still putting the dye in it?

Had real good results in top drip DTW and a 25lb sack lasted long time.


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## waterproof808 (Mar 13, 2021)

the new stuff isn't blue at all


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## Arkos (Mar 13, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I don't think I'll shed a tear for those profiteering cocksuckers


1000%!

I used to use Floranova with excellent results mind you but I noticed they kept diluting it as the viscosity of it was lower in each bottle I bought and sure enough the e.c. was too.

I even emailed them at the time and they outright admitted it. 

I've been using their floracoco now and just switched to megacrop, big difference, fuck this overpriced waterbottle bullshit...


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## Treesomewanted77 (Mar 13, 2021)

I have been using 19-4-23 from greencare with great results at one strength from start to finish super simple to mix up and holds steady ph but am thinking of trying the jacks brand but what is the better choice the 2 part mix with the cal nitrate or the single mix? The 19-4-23 is almost same price as jacks maybe a touch cheaper at $52 a 25lb bag but shipping makes it almost a 100 hoping jacks will be cheaper to have shipped being much closer to my location


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## lusidghost (Mar 13, 2021)

Florapro is running an aggressive ad campaign on facebook. It's like one out of every ten posts on my page.


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## maryannegarreth (Mar 13, 2021)

Treesomewanted77 said:


> I have been using 19-4-23 from greencare with great results at one strength from start to finish super simple to mix up and holds steady ph but am thinking of trying the jacks brand but what is the better choice the 2 part mix with the cal nitrate or the single mix? The 19-4-23 is almost same price as jacks maybe a touch cheaper at $52 a 25lb bag but shipping makes it almost a 100 hoping jacks will be cheaper to have shipped being much closer to my location


That's good!


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## maryannegarreth (Mar 13, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> Florapro is running an aggressive ad campaign on facebook. It's like one out of every ten posts on my page.


In my case, it's 4-5.


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## TintEastwood (Mar 13, 2021)

Still running Jacks without problems.

I too noticed P varies wildly, as do some others.
Approximate breakdowns for some common nute mixes.











Using Jack's Nutrients with RO Water


So you're using RO water. You've got a couple options when it comes to selecting the right Jack's Nutrients for you.




www.jacksnutrients.com






Jacks RO - 321 compare. Approx. elemental PPM breakdowns.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 13, 2021)

Treesomewanted77 said:


> I have been using 19-4-23 from greencare with great results at one strength from start to finish super simple to mix up and holds steady ph but am thinking of trying the jacks brand but what is the better choice the 2 part mix with the cal nitrate or the single mix? The 19-4-23 is almost same price as jacks maybe a touch cheaper at $52 a 25lb bag but shipping makes it almost a 100 hoping jacks will be cheaper to have shipped being much closer to my location


I think it really depends on your preference. The 1 part tap and RO formula are great. Simple. Effective. And dirt cheap. What the 3-2-1 system provides is supreme flexibility. Do you have a strain that's requiring much more calcium than your average strain? Increase the calcium nitrate. Problem solved. Want to decrease nitrogen towards flower? Decrease the calcium nitrate. Increase the 5-12-26. Have a strain that doesn't need much magnesium sulfate? Omit the epsom salt. Jack's 5-12-26 already has 6.3% magnesium sulfate. Some growers don't ever add the epsom salt to the 3-2-1 system. Without getting into the weeds jack's 5-12-26 is versatile, flexible, soluble, stable, consistent and great for any strain for these reasons if you're running a hydroponic system.

I'm planning to order the RO formula to test it out. There is no magnesium sulfate in the mix. Instead they use magnesium nitrate. I want to email jack's to find out if I can add epsom salt if needed. Other than that concern everything else looked right as rain to me on the ingredients and ratios and I would have no aversion to ordering it with confidence. I would recommend anyone to please buy the 25# bags instead of those smaller packs. Jack's is only cheap if you're buying it in the big bags. If you buy the small bags you're paying as much as a General Hydroponics product. I got a 5 gallon homer bucket with a gasket lid from home depot and toss my whole 25# bag right in there. I buy my epsom salt from walmart. Nobody else is cheaper. Equate brand. I get my calcium nitrate off of Amazon from PowerGrow. Dirt cheap.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 13, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> Florapro is running an aggressive ad campaign on facebook. It's like one out of every ten posts on my page.


Just say no to facebook  F.A.R.E
Facebook abuse resistance education. Now that's a national slogan I can get behind. Worst invention of this century.


----------



## Rdubz (Mar 13, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I think it really depends on your preference. The 1 part tap and RO formula are great. Simple. Effective. And dirt cheap. What the 3-2-1 system provides is supreme flexibility. Do you have a strain that's requiring much more calcium than your average strain? Increase the calcium nitrate. Problem solved. Want to decrease nitrogen towards flower? Decrease the calcium nitrate. Increase the 5-12-26. Have a strain that doesn't need much magnesium sulfate? Omit the epsom salt. Jack's 5-12-26 already has 6.3% magnesium sulfate. Some growers don't ever add the epsom salt to the 3-2-1 system. Without getting into the weeds jack's 5-12-26 is versatile, flexible, soluble, stable, consistent and great for any strain for these reasons if you're running a hydroponic system.
> 
> I'm planning to order the RO formula to test it out. There is no magnesium sulfate in the mix. Instead they use magnesium nitrate. I want to email jack's to find out if I can add epsom salt if needed. Other than that concern everything else looked right as rain to me on the ingredients and ratios and I would have no aversion to ordering it with confidence. I would recommend anyone to please buy the 25# bags instead of those smaller packs. Jack's is only cheap if you're buying it in the big bags. If you buy the small bags you're paying as much as a General Hydroponics product. I got a 5 gallon homer bucket with a gasket lid from home depot and toss my whole 25# bag right in there. I buy my epsom salt from walmart. Nobody else is cheaper. Equate brand. I get my calcium nitrate off of Amazon from PowerGrow. Dirt cheap.


Please let us know what u find out about using RO and if u Can use Epson or not ... Thanks


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## jonnynobody (Mar 13, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> Florapro is running an aggressive ad campaign on facebook. It's like one out of every ten posts on my page.


Jack's is still cheaper. GH wants you to buy florapro grow, florapro bloom,and their calcium / magnesium mix.

Flora pro grow: $57 for 25# @ grow green
Flora pro bloom: $58 for 25# @ grow green 
Calcium magnesium: $50 for 25# @ grow green (out of stock)
57+58+50= $165 + shipping

Jack's 5-12-26 25#: $36.48 for 25# @ grow green 
Calcium nitrate: $50 for 25# @ amazon
Epsom salt: $5 for 4# @ walmart
36.48+50+5= $91.48 + shipping.

Any other questions?


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## lusidghost (Mar 13, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Jack's is still cheaper. GH wants you to buy florapro grow, florapro bloom,and their calcium / magnesium mix.
> 
> Flora pro grow: $57 for 25# @ grow green
> Flora pro bloom: $58 for 25# @ grow green
> ...


I recently switched from Canna to Mega Crop, but you all are convincing me to go Jacks.


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## jcdws602 (Mar 13, 2021)

Rdubz said:


> Please let us know what u find out about using RO and if u Can use Epson or not ... Thanks


I use the both versions. Following the recommended nutrient schedules both recipes include Epsom salts.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 14, 2021)

jcdws602 said:


> I use the both versions. Following the recommended nutrient schedules both recipes include Epsom salts.


Thanks for hooking up a link to the feed chart. That makes the RO formula all the more appealing providing flexibility with being able to increase the magnesium sulfate. Do you prefer one formula over the other for any reason? I just recently started running the 3-2-1 with 5-12-26 at full strength with much better results than I experienced at a reduced EC.


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## jcdws602 (Mar 15, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Thanks for hooking up a link to the feed chart. That makes the RO formula all the more appealing providing flexibility with being able to increase the magnesium sulfate. Do you prefer one formula over the other for any reason? I just recently started running the 3-2-1 with 5-12-26 at full strength with much better results than I experienced at a reduced EC.


I like both equally to be honest. I like to use the ro version during veg because its simpler since it is 2 parts. I like to use the 3-2-1 version in flower because it offers more flexibility to tailor to specific needs during the different stages of flower production.


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## crankdoctor (Mar 18, 2021)

I’m new to jacks to on first run. So far been great. Used 5 gal buckets rdwc and need a bucket stretcher. roots are getting crazy in there. Plants are going ape shit. I’m sold as long as they finish nice to!


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## MAGpie81 (Mar 18, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I took the plunge 3 days ago and transitioned my entire garden over to jack's 5-12-26 from GH's maxi grow / bloom, and all of the plants look fantastic at 647-675PPM! That's pretty incredible to me, and explains why my jack's grown flowers taste and burn better. I have to feed GH's maxi grow / bloom at 775-825PPM to prevent deficiencies. Jack's gets the job done at nearly 200PPM less. The plants are growing and are as happy as they can be with significantly less fertilizer input, so the plants are absorbing lower levels of elements and I believe this is directly related to flavor and burn qualities.
> 
> We've all smoked one of those fertilizer over loaded hydro flowers that scorch your throat and lungs. They often burn poorly, but visually appear like any other high quality flower. I believe it's the plant simply absorbing too many elements. Those elements accumulate in the plant's tissue. Flowers for instance, right? Who on earth wants an excessive amount of phosphorous or potassium in their flowers? P&K loaded flowers look great. It's all downhill from there. The flowers taste terrible, and they burn poorly due to the excess elements present in the plant tissue. That problem doesn't occur with jack's. I'm excited to post my post harvest quality report on the latest jack's grown flowers in the near future. Anyone else notice their flowers taste better with jack's versus other fertilizers that require much higher PPM's to satisfy the plant's needs?
> 
> Lights out at the moment. I'll snap pics and post them later tonight. I hate when I see a thread like this and the OP doesn't post pics. Just pisses me off


Here is a great interview from a huge organic gardening proponent talking to one of the developers of Jack’s. I’m very much about soil and organics but I might try it sometime as she (the Jack’s person) makes very good points and stresses that you don’t need lots of nutrients for them to work, and explains the science behind their methods. Even Tad Hussey, the interviewer seems happy to hear about their work and that they try to work with traditional methods to find a balance between “organic” and “chemical” cultivation.









Cannabis Cultivation and Science Podcast: Episode 74: Targeted Nutrition Using Chemical Nutrients in Cannabis with Dr. Cari Peters


My guest this week is Dr. Cari Peters. She is the vice president at JR Peters and the formulator of all products and development of new fertilizer formulas that provide crop-specific solutions to growers nutritional issues. She has too many honors and accolades to list here, but I will put them...



cannabiscultivationandscience.libsyn.com


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## hotrodharley (Mar 18, 2021)

Rurumo said:


> The idea that we should "push" the ppms instead of using the minimum amount necessary to keep them happy is what makes for nasty bud-you see it all the time, pics of buds with fried leaves everywhere. That's one reason I like coco so much, you can get away with much lower #s and just feed more often.


There’s guys who will tell you if fan leaves don’t have blanched tips you’re not trying hard enough. Lol.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 18, 2021)

I've been running Jacks for a bit, and happy with it. Stuff is cheap as chips. My additives (Si, Fulvic, and Kelp) are the expensive part of my feed, not Jack's base nutes. I use cheap CalNit and Epsom Salts.


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## bodhipop (Mar 18, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> I recently switched from Canna to Mega Crop, but you all are convincing me to go Jacks.


How's mega crop working for you?


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 18, 2021)

bodhipop said:


> How's mega crop working for you?


I tried a bag of Mega one part and switched to Jacks before the bag of Mega was empty. Nuff said?


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## .Smoke (Mar 18, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I tried a bag of Mega one part and switched to Jacks before the bag of Mega was empty. Nuff said?


Same here.


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## bodhipop (Mar 19, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I tried a bag of Mega one part and switched to Jacks before the bag of Mega was empty. Nuff said?


Regretting my purchase as well. Never touched it after 5 feedings : /


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## yummy fur (Mar 19, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> ...I believe it's the plant simply absorbing too many elements. Those elements accumulate in the plant's tissue. Flowers for instance, right? Who on earth wants an excessive amount of phosphorous or potassium in their flowers?...


How does this work? I for example I know phosphorus is obvious a used for the ATP molecule and it makes the phosphate backbone for DNA and other essential plant stuff, but apart from what is being used, how is this unused phosphorus being stored and in what form. If there's too much iron in the soil will your plant take that up even if it doesn't need it, and then what. Not only that but aren't all the elements in some other form. For example you don't say that you put chlorine on your food because it's bound up with sodium.


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## Rdubz (Mar 19, 2021)

yummy fur said:


> How does this work? I for example I know phosphorus is obvious a used for the ATP molecule and it makes the phosphate backbone for DNA and other essential plant stuff, but apart from what is being used, how is this unused phosphorus being stored and in what form. If there's too much iron in the soil will your plant take that up even if it doesn't need it, and then what. Not only that but aren't all the elements in some other form. For example you don't say that you put chlorine on your food because it's bound up with sodium.


I know that they used hemp plants @ Chernobyl to clean up all those heavy metals from the ground . I guess it's the best plant for them to do this with. Honestly know a whole lot about it but it's very interesting and I'm learning more everyday .


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## rkymtnman (Mar 19, 2021)

bodhipop said:


> How's mega crop working for you?


my lawn loved it. luckily mine was a free bag they gave away here years ago.


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## Arkos (Mar 19, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> my lawn loved it. luckily mine was a free bag they gave away here years ago.


Ffs I just switched over to the 2 part  

I guess I better lower the dosage of my meds and start learning hydro buddy, tomorrow


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## rkymtnman (Mar 19, 2021)

Arkos said:


> Ffs I just switched over to the 2 part
> 
> I guess I better lower the dosage of my meds and start learning hydro buddy, tomorrow


mine was the version 1.0 had horrible pH drops with it in a stand-alone res. they couldn't figure it out either.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 19, 2021)

dyna gro foliage pro with added epsom salts is hard to beat as well. 9-3-6 ratio


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## Arkos (Mar 19, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> mine was the version 1.0 had horrible pH drops with it in a stand-alone res. they couldn't figure it out either.


Good looking out man, thanks. I kind of figured when you said years ago. 

This v3 seems to be doing good, we'll see in 2 months time. 
Wish you could get Jack's here in Europe like mega...


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## rkymtnman (Mar 19, 2021)

Arkos said:


> Good looking out man, thanks. I kind of figured when you said years ago.
> 
> This v3 seems to be doing good, we'll see in 2 months time.
> Wish you could get Jack's here in Europe like mega...


i've never tried them but i've always heard good things about Hesi brand nutes. from Holland. you ever seen or run them over your way?


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## Arkos (Mar 19, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> dyna gro foliage pro with added epsom salts is hard to beat as well. 9-3-6 ratio


Been drenching this crop with Og Biowar, Neem and potassium soap and the plants love it, even at ridiculously high ppm.


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## Arkos (Mar 19, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i've never tried them but i've always heard good things about Hesi brand nutes. from Holland. you ever seen or run them over your way?


I recently met a fellow grower from Belgium who swears by Hesi and he's been growing for 36 years, I must admit I'm a little excited to try out some of his stuff 

Personally I've never used Hesi, I'm getting away from bottled nutes. I want to be able to scale up when we relocate to New Jersey


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## rkymtnman (Mar 19, 2021)

Arkos said:


> when we relocate to New Jersey


which exit? lol that's Jersey humor. i grew up in PA. do you know waht part you'll be in?


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## Arkos (Mar 19, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> which exit? lol that's Jersey humor. i grew up in PA. do you know waht part you'll be in?


Lol, yes I remember her mentioning it's the highway state 

It's at the dream stage so far  so no sir.

My wife is American and her folks just moved back to NJ, think their in Edison but I'm not sure I'd want to be that close


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## rkymtnman (Mar 19, 2021)

Arkos said:


> think their in Edison but I'm not sure I'd want to be that close


with you on that! i'm thousands of miles from the mother in law. lol.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 19, 2021)

Arkos said:


> Good looking out man, thanks. I kind of figured when you said years ago.
> 
> This v3 seems to be doing good, we'll see in 2 months time.
> Wish you could get Jack's here in Europe like mega...


I hate how they're always futzing with their mix. I personally think the one part is a bad idea, because the cal nit and epsom salts are mixed in the same bag.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 19, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I hate how they're always futzing with their mix. I personally think the one part is a bad idea, because the cal nit and epsom salts are mixed in the same bag.


were you here when they went on their advertising blitz and free samples?


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 19, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> were you here when they went on their advertising blitz and free samples?


I think I missed the blitz. Did get a free sample of the v1.1, right before the v2 dropped. Since the v2 was supposed to be better I barely used the sample bag, and bought a bag of v2. I like veg+bloom much better for a one-part. I thought I would like the Mega especially for the kelp and Si, but the kelp would often settle out of solution, and I realized that the Si ppm was really low, so somewhat worthless (I think they add it as a ph buffer more than anything).


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## rkymtnman (Mar 19, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I think I missed the blitz. Did get a free sample of the v1.1, right before the v2 dropped. Since the v2 was supposed to be better I barely used the sample bag, and bought a bag of v2. I like veg+bloom much better for a one-part. I thought I would like the Mega especially for the kelp and Si, but the kelp would often settle out of solution, and I realized that the Si ppm was really low, so somewhat worthless (I think they add it as a ph buffer more than anything).


i got one of their big sample bags. it opened during shipping and USPS went ape shit. it was treated like hazmat stuff with all kinds of tape and multiple bags. lol. 

i really wanted it to work but pH dropped like a rock after 3 days.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 19, 2021)

yummy fur said:


> How does this work? I for example I know phosphorus is obvious a used for the ATP molecule and it makes the phosphate backbone for DNA and other essential plant stuff, but apart from what is being used, how is this unused phosphorus being stored and in what form. If there's too much iron in the soil will your plant take that up even if it doesn't need it, and then what. Not only that but aren't all the elements in some other form. For example you don't say that you put chlorine on your food because it's bound up with sodium.


Read a book on plants for crying out loud. All of those words were difficult to get through and for the most part only confused the fuck outta me, but I appreciate your effort


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## jonnynobody (Mar 19, 2021)

Arkos said:


> *I guess I better lower the dosage of my meds and start learning hydro buddy, tomorrow *


Hydro buddy is cool, but I would recommend you learn how to read your plants by what the foliage is telling you. Learn what a magnesium deficiency and calcium deficiency look like. Learn what Nitrogen toxicity looks like. Learn what P & K deficiencies look like. Then you don't need hydro buddy. Just your two eyes, a cup of coffee, and 5 minutes of your time 

With Jack's 5-12-26 the plants seem to love 1.3 EC in veg and 1.7-1.8 EC for late veg into and through completion of the flower cycle. You need an EC meter. Not hydro buddy


----------



## Fuckingatodeaso (Mar 19, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Just say no to facebook  F.A.R.E
> Facebook abuse resistance education. Now that's a national slogan I can get behind. Worst invention of this century.


----------



## bodhipop (Mar 19, 2021)

Arkos said:


> Good looking out man, thanks. I kind of figured when you said years ago.
> 
> This v3 seems to be doing good, we'll see in 2 months time.
> Wish you could get Jack's here in Europe like mega...


This is good news. I have the v3 as well. How long have you used it for?


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 19, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> which exit? lol that's Jersey humor. i grew up in PA. do you know waht part you'll be in?


A band I used to work with a few times, The Disco Biscuits, are big round those parts I hear. Ever see those guys?


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 19, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> A band I used to work with a few times, The Disco Biscuits, are big round those parts I hear. Ever see those guys?


no, never heard of them to be honest. i left that area in the late 80's.


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## Arkos (Mar 19, 2021)

bodhipop said:


> This is good news. I have the v3 as well. How long have you used it for?


4 waterings  

I will say the plants are happier than with the gh shit I was using.

@jonnynobody Even if I've never used hydro buddy that dose not mean I've never grown a plant but thank you for your input


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## bodhipop (Mar 19, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> A band I used to work with a few times, The Disco Biscuits, are big round those parts I hear. Ever see those guys?


Bro my friend is OBSESSED with them and has seen them 20 times. He's from the east coast.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 19, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> A band I used to work with a few times, The Disco Biscuits, are big round those parts I hear. Ever see those guys?





bodhipop said:


> Bro my friend is OBSESSED with them and has seen them 20 times. He's from the east coast.


i just pulled up a Ytube vid of them at ardmore hall. they are kinda trippy: i'd see them at red rocks if they ever come out this way.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 19, 2021)




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## PJ Diaz (Mar 19, 2021)

bodhipop said:


> Bro my friend is OBSESSED with them and has seen them 20 times. He's from the east coast.


I think I still have the keyboardist's cell number somewhere. I worked with them when they moved out to Santa Cruz for a couple of years. Honestly they were mostly pretentious dicks. First time I met them was when they showed up at the venue I managed for a sold out show, wanting to all get in for free with their girlfriends. I did a fun project with their keyboardist called "Santa Cruz Hemp Allstars". They only did 5 shows ever, but it was all completely unwritten impromptu stuff. Tell your buddy to check them out.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 19, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I think I still have the keyboardist's cell number somewhere. I worked with them when they moved out to Santa Cruz for a couple of years. Honestly they were mostly pretentious dicks. First time I met them was when they showed up at the venue I managed for a sold out show, wanting to all get in for free with their girlfriends. I did a fun project with their keyboardist called "Santa Cruz Hemp Allstars". They only did 5 shows ever, but it was all completely unwritten impromptu stuff. Tell your buddy to check them out.


are you still in the business?


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 19, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> are you still in the business?


Yep. I'm one of the lucky few to stay employed full time in my industry during the pandemic. I did make around $20k less in 2020 due to lack of overtime however.


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## bodhipop (Mar 19, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I think I still have the keyboardist's cell number somewhere. I worked with them when they moved out to Santa Cruz for a couple of years. Honestly they were mostly pretentious dicks. First time I met them was when they showed up at the venue I managed for a sold out show, wanting to all get in for free with their girlfriends. I did a fun project with their keyboardist called "Santa Cruz Hemp Allstars". They only did 5 shows ever, but it was all completely unwritten impromptu stuff. Tell your buddy to check them out.


Man a lot of bands I've been meeting have been pretentious dicks. I'd be pretty grumpy on tour with a fuggin' van too I guess.
Are you a producer and musician? What do you specialize in man? Before Covid I paid all the bills with shows and have made a few modest EPs at home.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 19, 2021)

bodhipop said:


> Man a lot of bands I've been meeting have been pretentious dicks. I'd be pretty grumpy on tour with a fuggin' van too I guess.
> Are you a producer and musician? What do you specialize in man? Before Covid I paid all the bills with shows and have made a few modest EPs at home.


I consider myself a tech, but these days I do more supervision than anything else. Venue management is what I've been doing for the past 10 years, but I'm also an IATSE Journeyman. I've also been a talent buyer/agent, tour manager, box office worker, bar tender/back, truck loader, promo/marketing assist, production manager, and front door man. I've pretty much done a bit of it all, but these days prefer the easy stuff, so am behind a desk a good bit of the time. I do play a bit of music from time to time, but don't consider myself a musician.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 20, 2021)

Just jack'n it baby:
3.6g jacks 5-12-26
1.1g epsom
2.4g calcium nitrate
Ph 5.8
Current EC 1.6
Previous EC 1.8


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## Rurumo (Mar 20, 2021)

Nice trunk!


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 20, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Just jack'n it baby:
> 3.6g jacks 5-12-26
> 1.1g epsom
> 2.4g calcium nitrate
> ...


Looking good. If you add fulvic acid to your mix, you might get it down to 1.4.


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## Fuckingatodeaso (Mar 20, 2021)

My 25 pound bag of 5-12-26 showed up today. Amazon was the cheapest I could find. $71.80 delivered. $52.31 for the Cal nit on the way. 6 pound bags of 100% Mag sulfate delivered for 6.49 on amazon fresh. No more water deliveries.


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## Rdubz (Mar 21, 2021)

Just made a batch of the RO at 1/4 strength with Epson and it’s sitting at 280tds /ppm @ 500 scale with a little ph up it now sits at 5.7 and you can just tell it’s not moving I let sit over night just so I can double check and perfect ph still ! That is one of they biggest battles in growing , now solved for me I’m putting the plants in right now from the cloner they got a little too big for it so been needing to do this . So now I can really see what Jacks is made of starting veg now !


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## lusidghost (Mar 21, 2021)

Is there any different between the RO formula and 5-12-26 part A formula aside from PH stability? Does the RO kind also require the Calcium Nitrate, or is it one part? I'm about to switch from Mega Crop, and my setup is using RO water to flood to waste in coco. I'm not sure exactly which I should buy.


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## Rdubz (Mar 21, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> Is there any different between the RO formula and 5-12-26 part A formula aside from PH stability? Does the RO kind also require the Calcium Nitrate, or is it one part? I'm about to switch from Mega Crop, and my setup is using RO water to flood to waste in coco. I'm not sure exactly which I should buy.


It is just the one part, we will see I guess it's got everything it needs and also u have to had Mag " Epson salt"


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## TintEastwood (Mar 21, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> Is there any different between the RO formula and 5-12-26 part A formula aside from PH stability? Does the RO kind also require the Calcium Nitrate, or is it one part? I'm about to switch from Mega Crop, and my setup is using RO water to flood to waste in coco. I'm not sure exactly which I should buy.


Be aware. The RO formula alone has less Ca than 321 using calnit.

I needed to supplement with a few ml of Calimagic for my coco grows. Adding more calnit is an option but results in higher N than using Calimagic.

Adding epsom is good for adjusting Mg and Sulfer levels if needed.

Elemental PPM compare...





3 days on jack's 5-12-26 and the plants are loving it! Bye bye General Hydroponics forever


I love growgreenmi, they had it even cheaper a few weeks ago, grrr should have bought it then. I'll get a bag once I'm done with my current grow, I'll start using it with a fresh set of plants in May and do a journal.



www.rollitup.org


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## lusidghost (Mar 21, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> Be aware. The RO formula alone has less Ca than 321 using calnit.
> 
> I needed to supplement with a few ml of Calimagic for my coco grows. Adding more calnit is an option but results in higher N than using Calimagic.
> 
> ...


I think I'm just going to use the 321. I've never had much luck with one part formulas. Plus I mix before I water and dump most of my res flooding anyway.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 21, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> Be aware. The RO formula alone has less Ca than 321 using calnit.
> 
> I needed to supplement with a few ml of Calimagic for my coco grows. Adding more calnit is an option but results in higher N than using Calimagic.
> 
> ...


i'm running the RO formula with my well water (due to a pH drop with the Tap) and i don't need any more Ca or Mg. 

did you have the Ca issue when using RO water with coco?


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## lusidghost (Mar 21, 2021)

I just order the 321, calnit and epsom salt. I also ordered a Bluelab truncheon. I think I should have been using epsom salt with Mega Crop because I was getting a mag deficit that I couldn't figure out.


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## TintEastwood (Mar 21, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i'm running the RO formula with my well water (due to a pH drop with the Tap) and i don't need any more Ca or Mg.
> 
> did you have the Ca issue when using RO water with coco?


Yes. I do use RO and coco.
Some use 321 and never need extra Ca or Mg.
I usually have to supplement a lil extra during veg and early flower.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 21, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> I just order the 321, calnit and epsom salt. I also ordered a Bluelab truncheon. I think I should have been using epsom salt with Mega Crop because I was getting a mag deficit that I couldn't figure out.


you running leds?


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## lusidghost (Mar 21, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> you running leds?


Yeah.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 21, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> Yes. I do use RO and coco.
> Some use 321 and never need extra Ca or Mg.


weird, huh? wonder if strain plays much of a role in why some can and can't?


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## rkymtnman (Mar 21, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> Yeah.


that's the reason (most people seem to think so)


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## lusidghost (Mar 21, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> that's the reason (most people seem to think so)


Could you explain? I haven't heard of this until now.


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## TintEastwood (Mar 21, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> weird, huh? wonder if strain plays much of a role in why some can and can't?


Could be strain. I suspect environment plays a role. Most runs were with dual 315cmh over a 4x4 and running Co2.

I've buffered my coco several ways. Lol

I find PH most important for proper uptake of nutes. 5.8 thru 6.2 is my main range.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 21, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> Could you explain? I haven't heard of this until now.


as to the why, i don't really know. just seems to be a trend. better spectrum? less infrared?


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## jonnynobody (Mar 24, 2021)

So I'm growing all of the same strains as the last flower cycle with the exception of blue dream. The only difference is that I'm using jack's 5-12-26 with calcium nitrate and epsom salt instead of GH maxi bloom. The aroma of the flowers is remarkably better and more pungent. The ghost train that I hated last cycle smells more of deep lemon that was not present last cycle. It was a sour burning type of smell that really was not pleasant or lemon like in any way. Just over powering citrus that was terrible. This time lemons. The maui waui smells unlike any maui I've ever grown because I've never grown it in jack's. I've grown if for the last 2 years, but never with jack's. This time it smells like a completely different plant. More like fruit. It smells more like what I would expect a soil plant to smell like. Even the critical mass smells very different. That strain has the least remarkable change, but it's still remarkable. The real test will be the smoke report. I'll do the same 3 day flush like I did last time 2 years ago. Nothing fancy. I'm sold on jack's. Very sold. The smoke report will seal the deal. I have 1 blue dream coming down in about 10 days, so about 2 1/2 weeks out to a real smoke report with jack's 5-12-26.


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## Rdubz (Mar 24, 2021)

Okay now I have completed 3 days with Jacks Ro And Epson , Its looking great for the most part they do love it , little bit of transplant shock but 3-4 days in now I can see they are eating now . Need some advice !

Using the ppm x500 /TDS scale 
Measured 1/4 strength to the dot on the Jacks RO and Epson

Starting with 280ppm and 5.7ph they are in there 2nd week of veg technically. DTW

Runoff at first was like 10 ppm less than input now on day 4 runoff is hitting 240ppm so that's 40ppm difference to me it means there transplant shock is over..

Question is should I have used more Epson salt you can see from pics below that there are some very green and some not so lush with some calcium deficiencies obviously I know I should use more Epson ... Now should I also Up my ppm so I'm asking let's say I add a 1/4 more Epson to the mix should I also make sure I'm evening it with a 1/4 more Jacks RO as well or I should keep my PPM the same ? And just increase Epson first. 

I was thinking doing a foiler spray of Epson now just to help fix the issue happening what is a proper Ratio Grams per Gallon if anyone can give me idea please and thank you..


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 24, 2021)

Rdubz said:


> Okay now I have completed 3 days with Jacks Ro And Epson , Its looking great for the most part they do love it , little bit of transplant shock but 3-4 days in now I can see they are eating now . Need some advice !
> 
> Using the ppm x500 /TDS scale
> Measured 1/4 strength to the dot on the Jacks RO and Epson
> ...


Double your ppms.


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## Rdubz (Mar 24, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> Double your ppms.


honestly From what I have been told I shouldn’t need to I forgot to mention I’m running HPA system and this is my first time growing in it and first time with jacks if it where my flood tables in hydroton I would agree..

edit - maybe I’ll take your advice try it out for a day but I just don’t wanna shock them and get set back a week trying to recuperate


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## jonnynobody (Mar 24, 2021)

Rdubz said:


> Okay now I have completed 3 days with Jacks Ro And Epson , Its looking great for the most part they do love it , little bit of transplant shock but 3-4 days in now I can see they are eating now . Need some advice !
> 
> Using the ppm x500 /TDS scale
> Measured 1/4 strength to the dot on the Jacks RO and Epson
> ...


That's a fantastic example of how to starve a plant  1.3 - 1.6 EC is needed for healthy plants with jack's 3-2-1. 700-800 ppm on the 500 scale.


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## Rdubz (Mar 25, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> That's a fantastic example of how to starve a plant  1.3 - 1.6 EC is needed for healthy plants with jack's 3-2-1. 700-800 ppm on the 500 scale.


ok I’m going to up it but only 2 of them are starved the other 3 are a dark green and healthy . so I’m basing this on my run off and what my run off is telling me is different it’s not like it’s consuming all that much . Will epsom salt increase PPM?


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## Billy the Mountain (Mar 25, 2021)

Rdubz said:


> ...
> Question is should I have used more Epson salt you can see from pics below that there are some very green and some not so lush with some calcium deficiencies obviously I know I should use more Epson ... Now should I also Up my ppm so I'm asking let's say I add a 1/4 more Epson to the mix should I also make sure I'm evening it with a 1/4 more Jacks RO as well or I should keep my PPM the same ? And just increase Epson first.
> 
> I was thinking doing a foiler spray of Epson now just to help fix the issue happening what is a proper Ratio Grams per Gallon if anyone can give me idea please and thank you..


I don't follow the logic. Magnesium sulfate will not address a calcium deficiency.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 25, 2021)

Rdubz said:


> edit - maybe I’ll take your advice try it out for a day but I just don’t wanna shock them and get set back a week trying to recuperate


600ppm won't shock them, it will feed them. just stick to the 321 ratios.


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## Rdubz (Mar 25, 2021)

Billy the Mountain said:


> I don't follow the logic. Magnesium sulfate will not address a calcium deficiency.


ya no I’m just realizing this thank you , I have always used AN so I had a bottle for everything u know ...




PJ Diaz said:


> 600ppm won't shock them, it will feed them. just stick to the 321 ratios.


sounds good except I’m not using the 321 ratio there RO version is just one part


----------



## crazymcdazy (Mar 25, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i feed mine in dwc 1x a day at 0.5EC.


Can you explain in detail please?


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 25, 2021)

Rdubz said:


> ok I’m going to up it but only 2 of them are starved the other 3 are a dark green and healthy . so I’m basing this on my run off and what my run off is telling me is different it’s not like it’s consuming all that much . Will epsom salt increase PPM?





Rdubz said:


> *Starting with 280ppm*


That's what I was referring to. Feeding at 280ppm is not a good idea. The solution to your problem has already been provided by @PJ Diaz . Increase the EC of the RO 1 part to 600ppm and you'll be solid. Happy growing!



PJ Diaz said:


> *Double your ppms.*


----------



## TintEastwood (Mar 25, 2021)

Jacks RO is a touch low in Ca and Mg, for some. My coco grow included.

I had to use a few ml of Calimagic for defs.






3 days on jack's 5-12-26 and the plants are loving it! Bye bye General Hydroponics forever


I love growgreenmi, they had it even cheaper a few weeks ago, grrr should have bought it then. I'll get a bag once I'm done with my current grow, I'll start using it with a fresh set of plants in May and do a journal.



www.rollitup.org


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## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

crazymcdazy said:


> Can you explain in detail please?


DWC run drain to waste.  remote res with a pump and feed lines out to each plant. the blue sight tube on each dwc is the drain.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> Jacks RO is a touch low in Ca and Mg, for some. My coco grow included.
> 
> I had to use a few ml of Calimagic for defs.
> 
> ...


the RO Ca is 7% and Mg 2%. do you know offhand what the 321 #'s are?? i wish the RO had Sulfur like 321.


----------



## xtsho (Mar 25, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> So I'm growing all of the same strains as the last flower cycle with the exception of blue dream. The only difference is that I'm using jack's 5-12-26 with calcium nitrate and epsom salt instead of GH maxi bloom. The aroma of the flowers is remarkably better and more pungent. The ghost train that I hated last cycle smells more of deep lemon that was not present last cycle. It was a sour burning type of smell that really was not pleasant or lemon like in any way. Just over powering citrus that was terrible. This time lemons. The maui waui smells unlike any maui I've ever grown because I've never grown it in jack's. I've grown if for the last 2 years, but never with jack's. This time it smells like a completely different plant. More like fruit. It smells more like what I would expect a soil plant to smell like. Even the critical mass smells very different. That strain has the least remarkable change, but it's still remarkable. The real test will be the smoke report. I'll do the same 3 day flush like I did last time 2 years ago. Nothing fancy. I'm sold on jack's. Very sold. The smoke report will seal the deal. I have 1 blue dream coming down in about 10 days, so about 2 1/2 weeks out to a real smoke report with jack's 5-12-26.


I can't remember if I've asked you this before but are you growing the Nivana Maui?


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 25, 2021)

xtsho said:


> I can't remember if I've asked you this before but are you growing the Nivana Maui?


Jefferson state seed co 
https://www.facebook.com/Jefferson-State-Seed-Co-486940548327988/

I don't know if it's a strain that's still available for sale. If it is it's a great one to have in the garden. I'd have no reservations recommending it.


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## TintEastwood (Mar 25, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> the RO Ca is 7% and Mg 2%. do you know offhand what the 321 #'s are?? i wish the RO had Sulfur like 321.


I'm pretty sure the Mg is in the Part-A/5-12-26 base.

All Ca is from the Part-B/calnit.

321 ppm on the right...approx.


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 25, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> I'm pretty sure the Mg is in the Part-A/5-12-26 base.
> 
> All Ca is from the Part-B/calnit.
> 
> ...


Jack's 5-12-26 contains 6.3% magnesium sulfate. It's loaded with it! And you are correct, 100% of the calcium in Jack's 3-2-1 system is derived from the calcium nitrate.


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## xtsho (Mar 25, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Jack's 5-12-26 contains 6.3% magnesium sulfate. It's loaded with it! And you are correct, 100% of the calcium in Jack's 3-2-1 system is derived from the calcium nitrate.


Calcium nitrate as the nitrogen source eliminates the need for calmag. 



jonnynobody said:


> Jefferson state seed co
> https://www.facebook.com/Jefferson-State-Seed-Co-486940548327988/
> 
> I don't know if it's a strain that's still available for sale. If it is it's a great one to have in the garden. I'd have no reservations recommending it.


Interesting. I've grown the Nirvana Maui Waui. I don't know how authentic it is but it's some decent weed.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

xtsho said:


> Calcium nitrate as the nitrogen source eliminates the need for calmag.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. I've grown the Nirvana Maui Waui. I don't know how authentic it is but it's some decent weed.


nirvana makes some decent strains. lot of people hate on them but their fems are stable. 

aurora indica was a good one.

i'm doing my last bean of blackjack right now. i don't remember how that one turned out: been a while.


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## xtsho (Mar 25, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> nirvana makes some decent strains. lot of people hate on them but their fems are stable.
> 
> aurora indica was a good one.
> 
> i'm doing my last bean of blackjack right now. i don't remember how that one turned out: been a while.


That's the truth. There has been what seems like a disinformation effort to discredit European breeders by some in the United States. It's shameful. Most of the pollen chuckers on instagram and those other crappy sites started with European genetics to begin with. The good breeders just sell what they have and don't get involved in that nonsense. 

As far as breeding goes. ACE based in Spain is probably one of the best. There are also some people doing some good stuff here in my home state of Oregon as well. But it's likely many started with genetics from Europe or at least some ties to European breeders. There are many more people from Europe sourcing cannabis from across the world. Those genetics are desirable. Too much US stuff is just recycled inbred hybrids given a new name. No real breeding going on. F1 hell. That's what it is.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

xtsho said:


> As far as breeding goes. ACE based in Spain is probably one of the best


can you get them from any US seed banks? 

do you run regs / fems or both? due to plant count and mainly bad luck (i'd have 10 of 10 be males lol) i only run fems. 

can you guys buy clones in OR?


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## lusidghost (Mar 25, 2021)

Alight, I just got my 5-12-26 and I want to go feed them. I'm confused as to how much though. There are a lot of charts and and types and whatnot. I tried to read this thread, but I just got home from a hike and I'm having a hard time focusing. 

Does anyone have a feeding chart that I could wrap my fried mind around? A simple grams per gallon of the three parts during the different phases?


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> Alight, I just got my 5-12-26 and I want to go feed them. I'm confused as to how much though. There are a lot of charts and and types and whatnot. I tried to read this thread, but I just got home from a hike and I'm having a hard time focusing.
> 
> Does anyone have a feeding chart that I could wrap my fried mind around? A simple grams per gallon of the three parts during the different phases?


isn't is 3g of 5-12-26 2g of cal/nit and 1g of epsom? jacks 3-2-1


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## lusidghost (Mar 25, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> isn't is 3g of 5-12-26 2g of cal/nit and 1g of epsom? jacks 3-2-1


Oooh. I assumed 321 meant parts, but not literal grams. You run it full strength all the way through?


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> Oooh. I assumed 321 meant parts, but not literal grams. You run it full strength all the way through?


ive never used it. i use jack's RO.

i'd run it at what your plants can handle. mix it up full strength and then water it down to your target EC


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 25, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i wish the RO had Sulfur like 321.


I think the sulfur in the Epsom salts is what gives it that great "Jack's" flavor that @jonnynobody alluded to earlier in this thread.


----------



## xtsho (Mar 25, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> can you get them from any US seed banks?
> 
> do you run regs / fems or both? due to plant count and mainly bad luck (i'd have 10 of 10 be males lol) i only run fems.
> 
> can you guys buy clones in OR?


I think there's a few US seed banks that carry a few ACE offerings. I purchased mine from overseas. 

I grow regulars.

There are clones to be had in Oregon but I've never purchased them.


----------



## Fuckingatodeaso (Mar 25, 2021)

Have any of you guys messed around with the start (clone) or finish formulas?


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## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I think the sulfur in the Epsom salts is what gives it that great "Jack's" flavor that @jonnynobody alluded to earlier in this thread.


the 5-12-26 has 8.5% sulfur. and then add on the epsom. maybe like 10% total?


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

xtsho said:


> I think there's a few US seed banks that carry a few ACE offerings. I purchased mine from overseas.
> 
> I grow regulars.
> 
> There are clones to be had in Oregon but I've never purchased them.


thanks. i'll check out that ACE and see if they do any fems. the other Spanish one i've heard of but never tried is Cannabia. pretty sure they do fems and autos


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 25, 2021)

xtsho said:


> I think there's a few US seed banks that carry a few ACE offerings. I purchased mine from overseas.
> 
> I grow regulars.
> 
> There are clones to be had in Oregon but I've never purchased them.





rkymtnman said:


> thanks. i'll check out that ACE and see if they do any fems. the other Spanish one i've heard of but never tried is Cannabia. pretty sure they do fems and autos


PCG just updated their seed catalog, which looks like some fire!









Seeds — Purple City Genetics







purplecitygenetics.com


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

if i did the math correctly, total ppm of Su in 321 is 169ppm. 67 from the 5/12/26 (3 g) and 103 from the epsom (1g)

so for the RO formula, i need to add about 1.7g per gallon epsom to be close.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> PCG just updated their seed catalog, which looks like some fire!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so i'm curious to your thought process @PJ Diaz , you look at that list and you pick what? and why? i think the only strain i heard of is the Runtz.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 25, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> if i did the math correctly, total ppm of Su in 321 is 169ppm. 67 from the 5/12/26 (3 g) and 103 from the epsom (1g)
> 
> so for the RO formula, i need to add about 1.7g per gallon epsom to be close.


I didn't check any math but those ppms seem high to me.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I didn't check any math but those ppms seem high to me.


you are correct sir. 103ppm is sulfate in epsom. it's 33ppm sulfur . looked up the wrong conversion.

recalculating...............................


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

100ppm total Sulfur. 67 from the 8.5% in part A and 33 from the epsom. thanks PJ


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 25, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> so i'm curious to your thought process @PJ Diaz , you look at that list and you pick what? and why? i think the only strain i heard of is the Runtz.


PCG started primarily as a clone company, and have moved more towards seeds in the past couple of years. They work with elite cuts, and produce fire. They even have an autoflower, Saltwater OG, which tests at 28% thc. I've have some of their cuts now too which are fire. 

I think from that list, I would go for the Grashopper or the Turnover. Apple Fritter is one of the newest elite clones on the market. Everyone likes something different tho.


----------



## TintEastwood (Mar 25, 2021)

approx. don't quote me. lol

per gram breakdown (or ml)


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

damn, so i need 3 g of epsom per gallon to be the same with the RO .

i've only been using 1 g per gal


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> approx. don't quote me. lol
> 
> View attachment 4862605
> 
> View attachment 4862606


yep, that's what i figured too: 100ppm Su


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 25, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> damn, so i need 3 g of epsom per gallon to be the same with the RO .
> 
> i've only been using 1 g per gal


But then won't you "jack" your mag levels up too high?


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> Everyone likes something different tho


thanks for the info. i look at that list and it's like looking at a foreign language to me. i'd probably just close my eyes and point to one.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 25, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> PCG started primarily as a clone company, and have moved more towards seeds in the past couple of years. They work with elite cuts, and produce fire. They even have an autoflower, Saltwater OG, which tests at 28% thc. I've have some of their cuts now too which are fire.
> 
> I think from that list, I would go for the Grashopper or the Turnover. Apple Fritter is one of the newest elite clones on the market. Everyone likes something different tho.


This is their current clone selection. $20 a cut at most dispos.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 25, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> thanks for the info. i look at that list and it's like looking at a foreign language to me. i'd probably just close my eyes and point to one.


Check out their IG for more pics and stuff: https://www.instagram.com/purplecitygenetics/


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> But then won't you "jack" your mag levels up too high?


probably so. i've got one with 2 weeks left to go so i might experiment on her. 

damn, so how do get that much Su? potassium sulfate would just blast K thru the roof too.


----------



## TintEastwood (Mar 25, 2021)

This is my goto veg recipe. Coco, so I run Ca/Mg higher in veg/early bloom.....or else I can get defs.
I start with RO.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> This is my goto veg recipe. Coco, so I run Ca/Mg higher in veg....or else.
> 
> View attachment 4862620


i'm really liking this 3-1-4 from the RO from start to finish. i was a Lucas guy 1-2-2 but this NPK seems much better suited to weed. and with my well water, i dont' need any ca or mg


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> This is my goto veg recipe. Coco, so I run Ca/Mg higher in veg/early bloom.....or else I can get defs.
> 
> View attachment 4862620


yours is pretty close to that 3-1-4 too.


----------



## TintEastwood (Mar 25, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> yours is pretty close to that 3-1-4 too.


As I understand it...

Based on the PPM values, this is the actual NPK % Ratio


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> As I understand it...
> 
> Based on the PPM values, this is the actual NPK % Ratio
> 
> View attachment 4862625


gotcha. i was doing the label NPK just for an ez comparison. 12-4-16 RO vs 4-8-7 floranova bloom

oh yeah, but you are right if i did a label comparison the 321 would be 5-12-26 + 15-0-0 for 20-12-26. (1.5-1-2) ish.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 25, 2021)

sorry @jonnynobody for doing my complex mathematics here!!! lol

but i'm on board with you after many years on the GH train. Jacks is the shiz-nit for cannabis.


----------



## crazymcdazy (Mar 25, 2021)

Anyone know where I could get some Jacks or equivalent in Australia?


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 25, 2021)

crazymcdazy said:


> Anyone know where I could get some Jacks or equivalent in Australia?


Make friends with an American you trust to send it to you


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 25, 2021)

xtsho said:


> Calcium nitrate as the nitrogen source eliminates the need for calmag.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. I've grown the Nirvana Maui Waui. I don't know how authentic it is but it's some decent weed.


I'm too simple minded to know the difference between "authentic" and "not authentic." If I buy seeds and they say maui waui I had better taste some got-dam fruit of some kind when I smoke a bowl. That's as complicated as satisfaction is for me. I really think people get into the weeds on "authentic" designations. Some of the best dope I ever grew was from random bag seed that hermied. How's that for authentic? 

Seriously though someone asked me what strains I had and I mentioned maui waui. The first response I got was, "is it real maui?" I just shake my head. Dude stick your nose in the bag? Now smoke a fucking bowl. Authentic enough for you?  It truly does look, smell, and taste like maui waui. If it's a con-artist-maui-waui-look-alike I'm more than satisfied with the knock-off


----------



## TintEastwood (Mar 25, 2021)

crazymcdazy said:


> Anyone know where I could get some Jacks or equivalent in Australia?


Found this...








12oz Kit Jacks 321 Hydroponic Fertilizer Nutrient Plant Food Grow Bloom General | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 12oz Kit Jacks 321 Hydroponic Fertilizer Nutrient Plant Food Grow Bloom General at the best online prices at eBay!



www.ebay.com.au


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 25, 2021)

Just jack'n it 3-2-1 style:


----------



## crazymcdazy (Mar 25, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> Found this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dont think they ship to Australia


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 25, 2021)

crazymcdazy said:


> Dont think they ship to Australia


I checked out the australian amazon web site. You poor folks get raked through the coals for shit over there. Fewer options too.


----------



## xtsho (Mar 26, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> thanks. i'll check out that ACE and see if they do any fems. the other Spanish one i've heard of but never tried is Cannabia. pretty sure they do fems and autos


I think you mean Cannabiogen. I think they have some connection with ACE. Or at least have shared some genetics.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 26, 2021)

xtsho said:


> I think you mean Cannabiogen. I think they have some connection with ACE. Or at least have shared some genetics.


my bad spelled it wrong. https://www.kannabia.com/en


----------



## xtsho (Mar 26, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> my bad spelled it wrong. https://www.kannabia.com/en


I've never heard of them. Their Columbian Jack looks interesting.


----------



## GrassBurner (Mar 26, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> Found this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just picked up the same "kit". I keep reading about how happy everyone is with Jack's, so I wanted to get in on the fun


----------



## Applesauceisgood (Mar 26, 2021)

Jack's could have more calcium in my opinion. Maybe flowering cal-mag (no N) would be good to use during flip and stretch. I also think a PK boost after the 4th week is beneficial. If you have extra maxi powders, you can combine them and add a small amount of cal/nit to form a nice nutrient profile of around 145 65 184 145 60. Slightly superior numbers than Jack's I think. However, you can also manipulate Jack's with flowering cal-mag + mkp so "who cares". Nice flowers.


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 26, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> Jack's could have more calcium in my opinion.


Jack's 5-12-26 has no calcium. It's provided by calcium nitrate as part of the 3-2-1- system. If you need more calcium you add more calcium nitrate. That's what makes the 3-2-1 system so great. It's flexible. Need more magnesium sulfate? Add more epsom. Less? Decrease. Again, this flexibility is what makes jack's 5-12-26 and the 3-2-1 system such a powerhouse performer for hydroponic gardening.



Applesauceisgood said:


> I also think a PK boost after the 4th week is beneficial.


I disagree. That's why almost all dispensary pot tastes like crap. Flowers loaded with potassium and phosphorous burn and taste like shit. The best burn qualities, flavor, and yield will be obtained by providing a balanced fertilizer start to finish. I recommend you attempt this once before over complicating things. You'll be pleasantly surprised by your results. PK boosters have always been unnecessary, but the fertilizer companies continue to perpetuate the lie so they get to sell you another product that vastly increases their profits. As the saying goes, "It's all about the benjamen's." They'll keep the lie going as long as the uninformed continue buying their products. It's a vicsous circle that never ends, because people refuse to wise up. I fell victim to the same con. It took me 2 years to realize I was only fucking myself and over complicating my garden maintenance and life in general. Jack's produced the most flavorful pot I have ever grown in a hydroponic medium with the most desirable burn qualities. Nobody could tell whether it was soil grown or hydro, because it tasted that fantastic. You'd be shocked just how tasty good hydro can be when you aren't loading the plant up with unnecessary amounts of P & K. Word to your mother 



Applesauceisgood said:


> If you have extra maxi powders, you can combine them and add a small amount of cal/nit to form a nice nutrient profile of around 145 65 184 145 60. Slightly superior numbers than Jack's I think. However, you can also manipulate Jack's with flowering cal-mag + mkp so "who cares". Nice flowers.


Holy Christ just reading that paragraph gave me a headache and left me in a state of confusion. My friend you really need to simplify your life. I recommend you start Jack'n it every day 3-2-1 style and for the love of god don't fucking over complicate it


----------



## Applesauceisgood (Mar 26, 2021)

I am aware of how to alter salt inputs. I've used jacks and grown great cannabis, but have also used GH powders + liquids (lucas formula) and achieved similar results and a great burn/flavor profile. Jacks 3-2 doesn't have an ideal amount of calcium without oversupplying nitrogen for some strains during stretch in my opinion. Tissue samples from cannabis confirm there is a spike in the requirement for P and K after week three. Ideally, you stop this by week 6 depending on finish time. You could also lower cal/nit during this period. I am unsure why the last paragraph left you in a state of confusion - a good target for cannabis crop N-P-K-Ca-Mg is 150-50-200-150-60. I am glad it has worked out for you but there are science-based approaches to push results further. I think adopting a Cal-mag supplement that doesn't have nitrogen is a good, simple way to take jack's to another level when the plant is yearning for calcium at the start of flower. Particularly, if you're growing a type that doesn't enjoy excess nitrogen in cal/nit. These small inputs are nice to have in the toolbox when used appropriately. Other than that, jacks is a solid base nute.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 26, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I recommend you start Jack'n it every day


i highly recommend Jack'n it every day too!


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 26, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> Tissue samples from cannabis confirm there is a spike in the requirement for P and K after week three


you're assuming 321 doesn't have enough P and K. so your premise is false.


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 26, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> I am aware of how to alter salt inputs. I've used jacks and grown great cannabis, but have also used GH powders + liquids (lucas formula) and achieved similar results and a great burn/flavor profile. Jacks 3-2-1 doesn't have an ideal amount of calcium without oversupplying nitrogen during stretch in my opinion. Tissue samples from cannabis confirm there is a spike in the requirement for P and K after week three. Ideally, you stop this by week 6 depending on strain finish time. You could also lower cal/nit during this period. I am unsure why the last paragraph left you in a state of confusion - a good target for cannabis crop N-P-K-Ca-Mg is 150-50-200-150-60. I am glad it has worked out for you but there are science-based approaches to push results further. I think adopting a Cal-mag supplement that doesn't have nitrogen is a good, simple way to take jack's to another level when the plant is yearning for calcium at the start of flower. Particularly, if you're growing a type that doesn't enjoy the nitrogen in cal/nit but would benefit from a calcium boost.


I'm a very simple minded individual and I mean this with all sincerity. I don't desire to push the limits. I just want simplicity because that's what works best for me. I can see you're one of those folks that really likes to break it down to the nuts and bolts and I can dig that. It's just too complicated for me and I would only wind up fucking things up. For a bone head like me I truly need something simple, and that's what the 3-2-1 system provides. And it's cost effective to boot. The nitrogen content of calcium nitrate has been a valid concern among jack's growers since it's introduction, and there are some people that use a variety of other calcium sources to omit the nitrogen. I achieved somewhere around a .75 GPW off of a single 600w lamp with jack's 3-2-1 system without altering the recipe. I did a 3 day flush at the end and that was all. I am more than satisfied with the results in flavor, yield, and burn qualities and I want for nothing more. Again, I am just a simple minded bone head. I need simple because if it were anything but I would fucker it all up


----------



## Applesauceisgood (Mar 26, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> you're assuming 321 doesn't have enough P and K. so your premise is false.


Your plants will benefit during week 4-6 with the addition of MKP. Will they work without it? Sure - but you'll have a bigger yield adding monopotassium phosphate on top of your base nutrient when demand spikes. You can do other things to increase yield i.e. raising RH into the 70s, leaf temp to 80, slightly higher if running LEDs, Co2, and so on but MKP in addition to your base nute timed right is invaluable in my experience. Cheap and effective.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 26, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> Your plants will benefit during week 4-6 with the addition of MKP


if my nutes have enough P and K (they do), adding more does nothing. sorry dude, not buying your BS.


----------



## Applesauceisgood (Mar 26, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I'm a very simple minded individual and I mean this with all sincerity. I don't desire to push the limits. I just want simplicity because that's what works best for me. I can see you're one of those folks that really likes to break it down to the nuts and bolts and I can dig that. It's just too complicated for me and I would only wind up fucking things up. For a bone head like me I truly need something simple, and that's what the 3-2-1 system provides. And it's cost effective to boot. The nitrogen content of calcium nitrate has been a valid concern among jack's growers since it's introduction, and there are some people that use a variety of other calcium sources to omit the nitrogen. I achieved somewhere around a .75 GPW off of a single 600w lamp with jack's 3-2-1 system without altering the recipe. I did a 3 day flush at the end and that was all. I am more than satisfied with the results in flavor, yield, and burn qualities and I want for nothing more. Again, I am just a simple minded bone head. I need simple because if it were anything but I would fucker it all up


Fair enough - it's something to maybe explore once you're dialed in and looking to experiment.. or not. Still simple salts but cool to see simple things benefit yields.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 26, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> RH into the 70s


during flower? 
more bad advice.


----------



## hydroScript.js (Mar 26, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> Your plants will benefit during week 4-6 with the addition of MKP. Will they work without it? Sure - but you'll have a bigger yield adding monopotassium phosphate on top of your base nutrient when demand spikes. You can do other things to increase yield i.e. raising RH into the 70s, leaf temp to 80, slightly higher if running LEDs, Co2, and so on but MKP in addition to your base nute timed right is invaluable in my experience. Cheap and effective.


Wouldn't lead temp in the 80's reduce terpene levels?


----------



## Applesauceisgood (Mar 26, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> if my nutes have enough P and K (they do), adding more does nothing. sorry dude, not buying your BS.



I don't think it's "BS", plenty of agri research conducted on P + K and crop yields. I am advocating the addition of a salt at a particular time in flowering based on science. Not peddling a snake oil product. You don't think MKP works, don't use it. KISS


----------



## Applesauceisgood (Mar 26, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> during flower?
> more bad advice.


Hardly, raising RH into the low 70s with temps above 80 is incredible in flower. Air circulation is key. Stomata open, nutrients flowing. Plants love it.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 26, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> I don't think it's "BS", plenty of agri research conducted on P + K and crop yields. I am advocating the addition of a salt at a particular time in flowering based on science. Not peddling a snake oil product. You don't think MKP works, don't use it. KISS
> 
> View attachment 4863338


you don't seem to understand. i'll try again: if your nutes have enough P and K, adding more does nothing. plants don't eat more nutes just because you add them. that's not how things work. 

if i can eat a 16 oz filet mignon but no more, giving me a 22 oz filet does nothing. get it?


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 26, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> Hardly, raising RH into the low 70s with temps above 80 is incredible in flower. Air circulation is key. Stomata open, nutrients flowing. Plants love it.


so does mold.


----------



## Applesauceisgood (Mar 26, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> you don't seem to understand. i'll try again: if your nutes have enough P and K, adding more does nothing. plants don't eat more nutes just because you add them. that's not how things work.
> 
> if i can eat a 16 oz filet mignon but no more, giving me a 22 oz filet does nothing. get it?


You seem a bit hostile with your ignorance. Your plants will benefit from additional P + K after week three of flower. Cannabis nutrient need shifts to these elements at this time. Jack's doesn't have the P or K to min/max this nutrient push in my experience. It's a base nutrient. The point is, you're leaving yield on the table, assuming your grow is dialed in, which might not be the case with you, and that is fine. Jack's serves all of us well enough as a stand-alone.


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 26, 2021)

Next time someone tells you that you need a PK booster in flower you tell 'em


----------



## Applesauceisgood (Mar 26, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> so does mold.


You're not going to get mold @ 70 RH in early and mid flower, dropping to 65% if your air circulation is poor in late stage. However, you'll see notable benefits in terms of plant health getting your VPD in check.


----------



## Applesauceisgood (Mar 26, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Next time someone tells you that you need a PK booster in flower you tell 'em


Fair enough - I just think enough agriculture research has been poured into these crops and similar to conclude P and K used at the right growth stage is easy and effective. And I do not think any base nutrient supplies the optimal amount when it's needed - and it shouldn't. That's the beauty of these base nutrient programs. You get good results leaving it as is, and you can push things even further by the addition of simple inputs timed correctly. No doubt people are overfertilizing. Overferting and lockouts because of it are the most common mistake you see on cannabis forums I think. I love the picture of your plant stalk a few pages back, really cool.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 26, 2021)

I've never seen any noticeable increase in yield with PK boosters myself. The only thing I've seen PK boosters do is lead to excessive ppms and high runoff.


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 26, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> Fair enough - I just think enough agriculture research has been poured into these crops and similar to conclude P and K used at the right growth stage is easy and effective. And I do not think any base nutrient supplies the optimal amount when it's needed - and it shouldn't. That's the beauty of these base nutrient programs. You get good results leaving it as is, and you can push things even further by the addition of simple inputs timed correctly. No doubt people are overfertilizing. Overferting and lockouts because of it are the most common mistake you see on cannabis forums I think. I love the picture of your plant stalk a few pages back, really cool.


The world needs gardeners like you to figure out the complicated shit for simpletons like me 

Some days I have enough trouble putting one foot in front of the other. There will be little to no complex thoughts for me in the near future. I'm balding enough as it is


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 26, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> I don't think it's "BS", plenty of agri research conducted on P + K and crop yields. I am advocating the addition of a salt at a particular time in flowering based on science. Not peddling a snake oil product. You don't think MKP works, don't use it. KISS
> 
> View attachment 4863338


While I appreciate that graph, it leaves many questions unanswered. Specifically, what was the feed program, which lead to the results shown in the graph? If a different program was used, would the results change? Most likely. Things to think about.


----------



## p0opstlnksal0t (Mar 26, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> We've all smoked one of those fertilizer over loaded hydro flowers that scorch your throat and lungs. They often burn poorly, but visually appear like any other high quality flower. I believe it's the plant simply absorbing too many elements. Those elements accumulate in the plant's tissue. Flowers for instance, right? Who on earth wants an excessive amount of phosphorous or potassium in their flowers? P&K loaded flowers look great. It's all downhill from there. The flowers taste terrible, and they burn poorly due to the excess elements present in the plant tissue.


Post harvest dry and cure plays a far greater role in how the dried flowers burn. Excessive nutrients don't "build up in plant tissues" that cause oddly burning flowers


----------



## TintEastwood (Mar 26, 2021)

I'm still learning this stuff.
Some use the same all thru, such as 321. With success.
Some use different ratios, with success.



I have fried some plant tissue with PK boosters. Also had success.

Megacrop 2-Part is near identical copy of Jacks 5-12-26.

Their feeding recipes can work for Jacks users. I have not tried their recipes.

(I added the epsom)


----------



## Applesauceisgood (Mar 26, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> While I appreciate that graph, it leaves many questions unanswered. Specifically, what was the feed program, which lead to the results shown in the graph? If a different program was used, would the results change? Most likely. Things to think about.


This isn't a new frontier in cannabis growing. Soil Testing along with tissue analysis of crops has been used and is being used to increase production across the planet. I do understand the point of concern you're making. You're using it and comparing it to what is known about cannabis nutrient requirements in various stages of growth and using it to guide you, not only in making sure you're supplying the right thing at the right time, but also that you're not oversupplying one as you antagonize another. It's a tool to use. It's well understood what nutrient ratios cannabis and similar crops require at various growth stages to "min/max" production.

Decent info for further reading, cannabis tailored:






Cannabis Nutrient Tissue Analysis and Crop Nutrition | Manic Botanix – Manic Botanix







manicbotanix.com


----------



## Applesauceisgood (Mar 26, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> The world needs gardeners like you to figure out the complicated shit for simpletons like me
> 
> Some days I have enough trouble putting one foot in front of the other. There will be little to no complex thoughts for me in the near future. I'm balding enough as it is


I dunno, you might be underselling yourself. You have a really nice grow, even if you consider it simple. I'd say you're well past the point of simple growing even if you've made it easy. I do understand and respect your ethos.


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 26, 2021)

p0opstlnksal0t said:


> Post harvest dry and cure plays a far greater role in how the dried flowers burn. Excessive nutrients don't "build up in plant tissues" that cause oddly burning flowers


Edit:

When you tell me it doesn't matter how much P or K you feed a plant as it relates to flavor and burn qualities of the finished flowers what I hear is, "It doesn't matter what you feed your plants." It's kind of like a, "plant food is plant food perspective" that I disagree with. That's like saying a person that eats Mcdonald's 3 meals a day is just as healthy and vibrant a human being as a person that eats 3 healthy meals per day. See how silly that analogy sounds?

What you feed your plants matters. Bottom line. Don't even get me started discussing heavy metals. I'm too effing tired 

Curing and drying are very important. I disagree with you regarding fertilizer as it relates to flavor and burn qualities. Maxi bloom grown flowers taste like shit. Jack's 5-12-26 using the same formula start to finish produced soil quality flavor and burn qualities. Now I don't mean to get all technical on ya here, but the proof is in the pudding. Don't go around sharing my secret with anyone


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 26, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> I dunno, you might be underselling yourself. You have a really nice grow, even if you consider it simple. I'd say you're well past the point of simple growing even if you've made it easy. I do understand and respect your ethos.


Thank you for the kind words. It's mostly a lot of grunt work day to day. I'm actually reducing next cycle. Tired of the work load. I want to enjoy doing it again. At this point it's just a lot of labor.


----------



## Applesauceisgood (Mar 26, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Thank you for the kind words. It's mostly a lot of grunt work day to day. I'm actually reducing next cycle. Tired of the work load. I want to enjoy doing it again. At this point it's just a lot of labor.


Automate! I'd go back to a closet grow if I had to mix, hand water, and other chores daily. Automation, more smoking less working.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 26, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> Your plants will benefit from additional P + K after week three of flower.


no they don't. mine get plenty. never had a P or K deficiency. sounds like your base nutes aren't up to par. 

if you have 50ppm or 5000 ppm of P , if they only need 30ppm, you're still an ignorant dumb shite .

aloha means good-bye. i remember you now: youre' the guy saying that chlorine and peroxide don't work.


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## p0opstlnksal0t (Mar 26, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Edit:
> 
> When you tell me it doesn't matter how much P or K you feed a plant as it relates to flavor and burn qualities of the finished flowers what I hear is, "It doesn't matter what you feed your plants." It's kind of like a, "plant food is plant food perspective" that I disagree with. That's like saying a person that eats Mcdonald's 3 meals a day is just as healthy and vibrant a human being as a person that eats 3 healthy meals per day. See how silly that analogy sounds?
> 
> ...


Excessive nutrients don't "build up in plant tissues" that cause oddly burning flowers


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## Applesauceisgood (Mar 26, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> no they don't. mine get plenty. never had a P or K deficiency. sounds like your base nutes aren't up to par.
> 
> if you have 50ppm or 5000 ppm of P , if they only need 30ppm, you're still an ignorant dumb shite .
> 
> aloha means good-bye. i remember you now: youre' the guy saying that chlorine and peroxide don't work.


I think you have a fragile ego, you're defensive, and lack knowledge. Initially, I didn't speak down to you. Individuals running min/max setups with optimal conditions often enjoy pushing the envelope. You come at me like an angry child because you recall me breaking the news to your pool shock is converting into chloramine, and the oxidizing power of free chlorine is eaten up when added to a reservoir with feed concentrations of fertilizer. You don't know what VPD is but became triggered when I mentioned people flower with RH into the 70s with great success.

Your world was apparently shattered by these revelations. You can buy an ORP meter or a basic Hanna HI701 and monitor your free chlorine in res to see if it maintains appropriate levels for pathogen control. I think calcium sulfate hydrate (or flowering cal-mag, though the mg isn't needed) and MKP is good to use on top of the base (note: it's called base), in small amounts, at appropriate stages of development. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 27, 2021)

p0opstlnksal0t said:


> Excessive nutrients don't "build up in plant tissues" that cause oddly burning flowers


Plants don't absorb elements? Could it be heavy metal contamination? Jack's advertises that their fertilizers are free of heavy metals. I'm wondering if GH maxi line contains high levels of heavy metals that's caused the issue?

This is an interesting read on the topic:
https://manicbotanix.com/contaminants-in-cannabis/


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## p0opstlnksal0t (Mar 27, 2021)

The plants absorb what they need from the soil. If you ionically bond cantaminants like heavy metals to macro or micro nutrients and the roots uptake it you can cantaminante the plant cells. This much is true. But if you feed your plants a higher ratio of P or N the plant won't uptake the higher levels of P or N and deposit the "excess" in the plant cells and it won't cause a buildup of those higher nutrient ratios in the flowers.





jonnynobody said:


> Plants don't absorb elements? Could it be heavy metal contamination? Jack's advertises that their fertilizers are free of heavy metals. I'm wondering if GH maxi line contains high levels of heavy metals that's caused the issue?
> 
> This is an interesting read on the topic:
> https://manicbotanix.com/contaminants-in-cannabis/


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## jonnynobody (Mar 27, 2021)

p0opstlnksal0t said:


> The plants absorb what they need from the soil. If you ionically bond cantaminants like heavy metals to macro or micro nutrients and the roots uptake it you can cantaminante the plant cells. This much is true. But if you feed your plants a higher ratio of P or N the plant won't uptake the higher levels of P or N and deposit the "excess" in the plant cells and it won't cause a buildup of those higher nutrient ratios in the flowers.


I'm specifically talking about hydroponic applications. Thank you for the great insight. Help me out here man. I am observing a remarkable difference in both flavor, burn qualities, and the aroma of developing flowers after switching fertilizers. I switched from jack's 5-12-26 to maxi bloom. I run RO water. The jack's flowers burned clean and tasted fantastic. For lack of a better description the maxi bloom flowers just don't taste right. They also burn to a dark ash whether smoking a joint or a bowl. Never a clean gray ash finish. That's a contaminant of some kind. After doing a bit of reading it appears there is an industry problem with heavy metal contamination in technical grade phosphorous that is used in the fertilizer industry. With your insight as to how plants use and absorb fertilizer I'd like to ask you another question, because I really want to get to the bottom of this and I genuinely appreciate your assistance.

What if it's not the addition of P that's causing a nasty flavor or poor burn qualities, but rather heavy metal contamination that's piggy backing on the phosphorous in the bloom mix?

Jack's advertises no heavy metals in their fertilizer. Could this be the culprit?
Just to add a little more salt to this statement my first hydroponic flower cycle was with the GH flora series. I added kool bloom throughout flower which is loaded with phosphate. The flowers were amazingly beautiful. When I smoked the flowers it literally hurt the fillings in my teeth as if I chewed on a piece of aluminum foil. It was nearly unusable, and it burned to a hard charcoal. It literally had to be picked out of the bowl. I suspect heavy metal contamination as the culprit. 

My theory is the fertilizer we use on the plants we are going to ultimately dry and smoke is more important than any of us may have realized simply due to the presence of heavy metal contamination in some fertilizers. It costs more money to test for heavy metals like jack's does. I suspect some companies take the short cut to increase profits, and as a result heavy metals are present in their fertilizers. 

That jive with you?


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## jonnynobody (Mar 27, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> I think you have a fragile ego, you're defensive, and lack knowledge. Initially, I didn't speak down to you. Individuals running min/max setups with optimal conditions often enjoy pushing the envelope. You come at me like an angry child because you recall me breaking the news to your pool shock is converting into chloramine, and the oxidizing power of free chlorine is eaten up when added to a reservoir with feed concentrations of fertilizer. You don't know what VPD is but became triggered when I mentioned people flower with RH into the 70s with great success.
> 
> Your world was apparently shattered by these revelations. You can buy an ORP meter or a basic Hanna HI701 and monitor your free chlorine in res to see if it maintains appropriate levels for pathogen control. I think calcium sulfate hydrate (or flowering cal-mag, though the mg isn't needed) and MKP is good to use on top of the base (note: it's called base), in small amounts, at appropriate stages of development. Nothing more, nothing less.


Can't we all just get along


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## rkymtnman (Mar 27, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> I think you have a fragile ego, you're defensive, and lack knowledge


you still haven't proven this statement wrong:
if you have 50ppm or 5000 ppm of P , if they only need 30ppm, they only use 30ppm. 
i've said something similar 3 times now. so prove it wrong and i'll retract calling you a dumb shite. until then, you still are. 
and by the way, i'm defensive b/c you called me ignorant.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 27, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Can't we all just get along


i'm surprised you haven't called him out: he made a sly comment about your growing skills. (i guess he didn't look at your pics?)


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## Fuckingatodeaso (Mar 27, 2021)

Harley Smith of NPK industries has a video were he talks about the 2 times it is appropriate to briefly boost phosphates. Early veg and early flowering. Early veg to stimulate faster root growth and early in flowering to turn on genes for more flowering sites and earlier flowering. The study he sites was on peppers though. Pretty different from most who use it late in flowering for long periods. Probably gonna do a side by side in flowering to test it out.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 27, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> You don't know what VPD is


70% RH at 80F like you said is for seedlings/ early veg. not flowrering like you said. 

at 70% RH in flowering (mid to late), you'd need to run at 95F, not 80F like you claimed. lol.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 27, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i'm surprised you haven't called him out: he made a sly comment about your growing skills. (i guess he didn't look at your pics?)


I pick my battles more carefully the older I get. Why? Yesterday for instance I'm working in the flower room tying off branches to spread the canopy and I hear my light controller relay throw and all of my ventilation shut down. I felt my heart fall right through my asshole. I can't properly communicate just how horrible a feeling that was that ripped through me in that very moment as I'm rolling my butt around on a dolly cart underneath the canopy with no light of any kind and my entire house just lost power. I thought maybe I was drawing too much power and my main breaker tripped. Checked it. Nope. The plot thickens. Look out my windows and no lights in the whole neighborhood. Off to the garage. Fire the generator. Turn off the main breaker. Disconnect light controller. Disassemble a receptacle in my garage. Clip the cord on a spare extension cord and hard wire it to my receptacle in the garage. Plug into a 15 amp 110v receptacle on my generator to back feed power which only provides 1 phase of power so every other breaker was active. I got lucky and all the breakers that control my ventilation were on.

Then I had to run 2 50' 10 gauge whips from the fucking generator to the fucking flower room to fire a couple HID lights so the flower room could limp through until power was restored. Power comes back on. I disconnect the whips. Disconnect the back feed. Fucking power goes out again 5 minutes after I turn off the generator. Reconnect everything. Go get fuel from the gas station. Wait for power to restore again. Then disconnect everything again after power is restored. Reset all my timers. Reconnect my lights to the proper port on the controller. I worked until 3am getting everything back on track. And you know what? I fucking forgot to reset the light timer. I woke up at 7am. Lights off is at 5am. The fucking lights had just turned off and my room had reached 86 degrees.

Yeah, so I pick and choose my battles these days. I got enough bullshit to shovel in a day's time without adding unnecessary wastes of time


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## jonnynobody (Mar 27, 2021)

Fuckingatodeaso said:


> Harley Smith of NPK industries has a video were he talks about the 2 times it is appropriate to briefly boost phosphates. Early veg and early flowering. Early veg to stimulate faster root growth and early in flowering to turn on genes for more flowering sites and earlier flowering. The study he sites was on peppers though. Pretty different from most who use it late in flowering for long periods. Probably gonna do a side by side in flowering to test it out.


Harley Smith is an employee of NPK industries. Do you really feel his opinions are objective? That's a rhetorical question 
At this point I'm focused on heavy metal contaminants as the possible culprit here regarding the difference in flavor and burn qualities when using 1 brand of fertilizer versus another. I also believe a balanced fertilizer is the best approach from start to finish. If you're unsure talk to Uncle Ben over at ICMAG. Bring everything you got, because he's good


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## rkymtnman (Mar 27, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I got enough bullshit to shovel in a day's time


sounds like it! that sux about your power situation. 

that's how it works for me too: ours goes out in the summer mainly. as soon as i go to the garage to get the gennie, get her hooked up and shit, the power comes back on. only luck i have is bad. lol!!


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## rkymtnman (Mar 27, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Bring everything you got, because he's good


if you do a search, there is an awesome thread here with both uncle ben and fatman. those 2 dudes know more about nutes than probably anybody.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 27, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> if you do a search, there is an awesome thread here with both uncle ben and fatman. those 2 dudes know more about nutes than probably anybody.


I remember Uncle Ben trying to set people straight 10 years ago. His plants always looked amazing. Lush and green all the way to harvest day. Beautiful thick colas. You ever wanna know what's what about something you find some gray hair. You'll quickly get to the bottom of the bullshit. They ain't got no patience for it


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## jonnynobody (Mar 27, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> sounds like it! that sux about your power situation.
> 
> that's how it works for me too: ours goes out in the summer mainly. as soon as i go to the garage to get the gennie, get her hooked up and shit, the power comes back on. only luck i have is bad. lol!!


It actually makes me feel better I'm not the only one. Thank you for that


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## rkymtnman (Mar 27, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I remember Uncle Ben trying to set people straight 10 years ago. His plants always looked amazing. Lush and green all the way to harvest day. Beautiful thick colas. You ever wanna know what's what about something you find some gray hair. You'll quickly get to the bottom of the bullshit. They ain't got no patience for it


i remember one of his nutes that he likes is the 20-20-20 from jacks. that and dyna gro foliage pro.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 27, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> It actually makes me feel better I'm not the only one. Thank you for that


thats the main reason i grow only fem seeds: if i did regs, it would be 20 out of 20 dudes. lol.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 27, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i remember one of his nutes that he likes is the 20-20-20 from jacks. that and dyna gro foliage pro.


I have a container of 20-20-20 in my garage right now thanks to UB. I just found this while searching for information regarding heavy metal contamination in the non-organic fertilizer industry. Kind of mind blowing and nauseating at the same time:

_*The presence of heavy metals in inorganic fertilizers is well established. Analytical testing of a wide range of fertilizer products shows that some phosphate and micronutrient fertilizers, and liming materials contain elevated levels of arsenic, cadmium, and lead compared to other fertilizer types (e.g., nitrogen, potash, gypsum). A few waste-derived fertilizer products also have been shown to contain elevated (parts per trillion) levels of dioxins.*


More than 54 million tons (110 billion pounds) of commercial fertilizers and liming materials were consumed in the US in 1996, with over 2 million tons consumed on farms in Minnesota. The bulk of these fertilizers are applied in agricultural settings (croplands); however, some commercial fertilizers are used by consumers around the home (e.g., micronutrient and phosphate fertilizers applied on lawns and gardens).


Heavy metals occur naturally in soils and in source materials used to manufacture fertilizers. In addition, heavy metals (and other hazardous constituents) occur in products as a result of blending fertilizers with recycled industrial wastes (e.g., steel mill flue dust, mine tailings). *Federal statutes allow reclassified industrial wastes to be used in the manufacture of fertilizers, provided that such use constitutes “beneficial recycling,” and that the concentrations of hazardous constituents in the resulting fertilizers do not exceed the treatment standards specified for wastes (40 CFR 266.20).*

Source: https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/environment/risk/studies/metals.html_


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## jonnynobody (Mar 27, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> thats the main reason i grow only fem seeds: if i did regs, it would be 20 out of 20 dudes. lol.


I planted 5 regular jager seeds from a friend of mine. 4 males. I couldn't fucking believe it, and this is a perfect example of why I do not gamble


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## rkymtnman (Mar 27, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I planted 5 regular jager seeds from a friend of mine. 4 males. I couldn't fucking believe it, and this is a perfect example of why I do not gamble


damn dude, sounds like we are cut from the same cloth. lol.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 27, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I'm specifically talking about hydroponic applications. Thank you for the great insight. Help me out here man. I am observing a remarkable difference in both flavor, burn qualities, and the aroma of developing flowers after switching fertilizers. I switched from jack's 5-12-26 to maxi bloom. I run RO water. The jack's flowers burned clean and tasted fantastic. For lack of a better description the maxi bloom flowers just don't taste right. They also burn to a dark ash whether smoking a joint or a bowl. Never a clean gray ash finish. That's a contaminant of some kind. After doing a bit of reading it appears there is an industry problem with heavy metal contamination in technical grade phosphorous that is used in the fertilizer industry. With your insight as to how plants use and absorb fertilizer I'd like to ask you another question, because I really want to get to the bottom of this and I genuinely appreciate your assistance.
> 
> What if it's not the addition of P that's causing a nasty flavor or poor burn qualities, but rather heavy metal contamination that's piggy backing on the phosphorous in the bloom mix?
> 
> ...


@Rurumo database of nutes please.


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## Fuckingatodeaso (Mar 27, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Harley Smith is an employee of NPK industries. Do you really feel his opinions are objective?


"Probably gonna do a side by side in flowering to test it out."

Everyone's opinions are objective. Everyone's. Even the reps at Jacks. Get information from viable sources-Actual studies, people who have operated green houses for a long long time, those that have great results, ect. Make no contentions. Test it. Preferably in a side by side where only one variable is changed. My current jacks test is based on widespread success stories yet I have made no contentions yet. Although, I'm pretty sure it will be a winner. Harley Smith is citing a European study. Is he citing it to sell me NPK phosphates? Perhaps. Nerveless the results of the study are thought provoking. Greenhouse growers using phosphates for a short period of time at a totally different time and duration than the mainstream. Like greenhouse growers making there own nutrients from dry powders. Totally different from liquid mainstream.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 27, 2021)

Fuckingatodeaso said:


> "Probably gonna do a side by side in flowering to test it out."
> 
> Everyone's opinions are objective. Everyone's. Even the reps at Jacks. Get information from viable sources-Actual studies, people who have operated green houses for a long long time, those that have great results, ect. Make no contentions. Test it. Preferably in a side by side where only one variable is changed. My current jacks test is based on widespread success stories yet I have made no contentions yet. Although, I'm pretty sure it will be a winner. Harley Smith is citing a European study. Is he citing it to sell me NPK phosphates? Perhaps. Nerveless the results of the study are thought provoking. Greenhouse growers using phosphates for a short period of time at a totally different time and duration than the mainstream. Like greenhouse growers making there own nutrients from dry powders. Totally different from liquid mainstream.


I think the word you were looking for is subjective, not objective. You're welcome 

Let me help you out here homie. Objective opinions are independent ones not provided by the company who is trying to sell you the product 

Objective definition:
not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an *objective opinion*. intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book.

Independent 3rd party research conducted by people whom are not in any way connected to the company selling the product being researched is capable of producing an objective opinion. If I was selling Jonny five's 5 star top shelf nug blaster nutrients and I showed you 10 different in house research reports that prove without a doubt jonny five's 5 star top shelf nug blaster nutrients are the best thing since sliced bread, would you really trust my statement? If so, I've got a pallet of jonny five's 5 star top shelf nug blaster nutrients I'm willing sell you at a deep discount, and I've got 10 in house research reports to prove it's efficacy!


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 27, 2021)

At the risk of derailing this thread too much, I heard yesterday on the GML show that HLG just finished their nute line, and release is imminent. They did show the numbers on the show, but I guess YouTube has already deleted yesterday's show because of a copyrighted image from the thumbnail icon lol. Anyway, it sounded like there is a "base" of something like 14-0-1, which I thought a bit odd. Sounds like CalNit,, but what's with the bit of K in there? Then I guess their is a "veg base" and a "flower base" that go with the "base (base? - lol)", and then a PK booster plus maybe one other supplement. Anyway, it's supposed be a LED specific nute line. I'm interested to see more details when it hits the website. You can request a sample too.


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## Fuckingatodeaso (Mar 27, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I think the word you were looking for is subjective, not objective. You're welcome


You are correct. I switched those words around. Thank for the correction essay.
Just replace objective with the subjective when you read it again and you wont get subjectively derailed from the point.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 27, 2021)

Fuckingatodeaso said:


> You are correct. I switched those words around. Thank for the correction essay.
> Just replace objective with the subjective when you read it again and you wont get subjectively derailed from the point.


It's good to know what the big words mean if you're gonna try to use them.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 27, 2021)

My dirty laundry:


Fuckingatodeaso said:


> You are correct. I switched those words around. Thank for the correction essay.
> Just replace objective with the subjective when you read it again and you wont get subjectively derailed from the point.


With my aging brain, horrible ADD, and atrocious bi-polar disorder I greatly appreciate when people keep things simple when communicating. Use the words you intend to use otherwise you risk confusing a mental retard like me 

Well I got all the timers confirmed reset and back on track. Daylight savings time really fucked me up with my timers. I mean really fucked me up. Again, I'm very simple minded. It don't take much to fucker me up 

I snapped some pics below my canopy to show exactly how you can stuff a fucking room wall to wall with absolutely zero access. This is a universal problem with almost all growers unless you're a rich asshole and can afford an infinite amount of space. My apologies if you're a rich asshole  In any event space constraints for the garden are a bitch and it's the same bitch for all of us to some degree or another. Sure I could reduce my plant count and have a nice exterior perimeter walk, but then I harvest a lot less pot while burning the same amount of watts. What's a grower to do? Get down. I mean literally get down on the ground. I created a work space on my floor. I move around on my butt on a rolling cart that's about 4" off the ground with castors. I have 2 trash cans, a terry cloth towel bucket for cleaning, cleaning solution, replacement trash bags, siphon pump for removing water from the saucers, wax string, scissors, screw in hooks, ratchet hooks, and a hand held dust buster I got for cleaning up debris - and brother there is a lot of fucking debris. I love my dust buster. If you don't have one I highly recommend you get one. Who the hell wants to monkey with a big bulky shop vac for little bits of leaf allover the floor? Dust buster baby.

Anyhow, I feel like nobody really wants to show you this kind of thing when they show you their grow room. I wanna see all the parts the grower doesn't want me to see. Show me you're dirty laundry so I understand how it all works. Then I might be able to duplicate the same thing by learning from you, but if you never show somebody the dirty laundry they might not connect all the dots. Then you're just a gloating asshole showing off your grow if there's nothing for others to learn


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## jonnynobody (Mar 27, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> At the risk of derailing this thread too much, I heard yesterday on the GML show that HLG just finished their nute line, and release is imminent. They did show the numbers on the show, but I guess YouTube has already deleted yesterday's show because of a copyrighted image from the thumbnail icon lol. Anyway, it sounded like there is a "base" of something like 14-0-1, which I thought a bit odd. Sounds like CalNit,, but what's with the bit of K in there? Then I guess their is a "veg base" and a "flower base" that go with the "base (base? - lol)", and then a PK booster plus maybe one other supplement. Anyway, it's supposed be a LED specific nute line. I'm interested to see more details when it hits the website. You can request a sample too.


I would be interested in checking it out at least. I think they charge too much for their hardware, but it is the best of the best in the industry and I have no doubt their fertilizer line will be of equal quality. I'll scope it out and see what information I can find. I'm so pleased with jack's though at this point I really want for nothing. A new quality fertilizer line for growers is exciting though and welcome news. Edge out some of the shitty companies that need to be put out of business. Ahem cough cough...advanced nutrients?


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## Applesauceisgood (Mar 27, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> 70% RH at 80F like you said is for seedlings/ early veg. not flowrering like you said.
> 
> at 70% RH in flowering (mid to late), you'd need to run at 95F, not 80F like you claimed. lol.


You're wrong. To your point about ppm - Jack's base doesn't have ideal P during certain phases and most importantly Ca to satisfy the plant when it needs it most. The micros also aren't great (boron?). If you took a tissue sample using only Jack's base, you're going to be deficient in Ca from the jump @ the ppm in Jack's. Once you're behind on Ca, there as cascading consequences for everything that follows. You aren't growing the plant to the absolute fullest potential. Can you get 90% of the way there and enjoy it? Yup. For a hobby grower is that enough? Absolutely. Go check out a grower "DJM" and what he is doing in sealed rooms with high RH. This isn't a new thing relegated to the cannabis community, you're just an ignorant dummy.

week 1 - 85f/ 75% rh (day) ; 80 f/ 70% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 2 - 85f/ 75% rh (day) ; 80 f/ 70% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 3 - 85f/ 75% rh (day) ; 80 f/ 70% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 4 - 82f/ 72% rh (day) ; 78f/ 68% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 5 - 80f/ 70%rh (day) ; 75f / 65% (night) ; 1000 ppms c02
week 6 - 80f /70%rh (day) ; 75f / 65% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 7 - 78f/68% rh (day) ; 72 f/ 62% (night) ; 1000 ppms co2
week 8 - 75f/ 65%rh (day) ; 70f/ 60% (night) ; 0 ppms co2
week 9 - 70f /60% rh (day) ; 60f/ 50% (night) ; 0 ppm c02

Better results than you'll achieve in 10 lifetimes with you're boneheaded approach to accepting information that clashes with your tiny little world.


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## Applesauceisgood (Mar 27, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Harley Smith is an employee of NPK industries. Do you really feel his opinions are objective? That's a rhetorical question
> At this point I'm focused on heavy metal contaminants as the possible culprit here regarding the difference in flavor and burn qualities when using 1 brand of fertilizer versus another. I also believe a balanced fertilizer is the best approach from start to finish. If you're unsure talk to Uncle Ben over at ICMAG. Bring everything you got, because he's good


You can push high EC like you did with other lines and have a fine burn. I don't consider 1.5 EC ridiculous depending on your setup. Not sure why you ran into issues with other base nutes. Maxi line is way too low on calcium. Mg in particular is nasty in the amounts most growers push. This is a culprit for the snap, crackle, and pop. People rarely run into a real Mg def that can be fixed by throwing more magnesium sulfate at the soil. You can be Mg excess in the soil and Mg def in the leaves.


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## Applesauceisgood (Mar 27, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i'm surprised you haven't called him out: he made a sly comment about your growing skills. (i guess he didn't look at your pics?)


If you're referencing me, you're a liar. I praised the guy for his skillset going the simple route. It is a waste of my precious time continuing this with a hard-headed novice that believes their ignorance is a strength.


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## Arkos (Mar 27, 2021)

Please guys this thread is providing great info for people new to Jack's and even mega crop for that matter, let's keep the info coming instead of having this thread locked.


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## Applesauceisgood (Mar 27, 2021)

Arkos said:


> Please guys this thread is providing great info for people new to Jack's and even mega crop for that matter, let's keep the info coming instead of having this thread locked.


I made a suggestion that intelligently adding calcium (gypsum, flowering cal-mag) pre-flip-2 weeks flower and MKP (you want the P) week 4-5 on top of Jack's base nutrient is a winning combination. I urge people to try it if you have other areas dialed in and see what it does. If that suggestion triggers you like it does rocky mountain man, don't try it and keep it simple. Extra calcium (not extra Mg) is a winner before flip and during the first weeks of flower prior to stacking. I think you will see a positive difference.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 27, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> I made a suggestion that intelligently adding calcium (gypsum, flowering cal-mag) pre-flip-2 weeks flower and MKP (you want the P) week 4-5 on top of Jack's base nutrient is a winning combination. I urge people to try it if you have other areas dialed in and see what it does. If that suggestion triggers you like it does rocky mountain man, don't try it and keep it simple. Extra calcium (not extra Mg) is a winner before flip and during the first weeks of flower prior to stacking. I think you will see a positive difference.


If this cycle with Jack's alone is as fantastic as my first cycle 2 years ago I may experiment with adding mkp in measured amounts to 1 plant in which I have 2 of the same strain. That way 1 plant will be my control and the other the test for which we can then determine if it made a substantial difference in either direction. GreenGene used mkp in his grows and he's the original 3-2-1 aficionado. I'm looking forward to running the experiment and reporting my results. The smoke report is the bottom line as always


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 27, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I would be interested in checking it out at least. I think they charge too much for their hardware


I put together my diy hlg stuff for less than it costs to buy SF or Mars stuff tho.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 27, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I put together my diy hlg stuff for less than it costs to buy SF or Mars stuff tho.


That's really the way to go for the best quality gear and pricing with gauranteed authentic components. @NukaKola has a great journal he put together showing off his DIY HLG lights. I think you just motivated me to build my next light. Nothing crazy like GreneGene's 8 bar $800 unit. I'd try something small first just to make sure I don't fry something expensive by miswiring shit  those HLG boards with the blue spectrum look pretty fucking sweet. Sold out currently.


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## jonnynobody (Mar 27, 2021)

Can anyone watch this and not laugh? I gotta fever and the only prescription is more cow bell baby!


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 27, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> That's really the way to go for the best quality gear and pricing with gauranteed authentic components. @NukaKola has a great journal he put together showing off his DIY HLG lights. I think you just motivated me to build my next light. Nothing crazy like GreneGene's 8 bar $800 unit. I'd try something small first just to make sure I don't fry something expensive by miswiring shit  those HLG boards with the blue spectrum look pretty fucking sweet. Sold out currently.


I got a 315cmh a few weeks ago to work with my LEDs and have been loving it!


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 27, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I got a 315cmh a few weeks ago to work with my LEDs and have been loving it!


Clearly you are smarter than me  I poorly researched, planned, and executed a light upgrade for a veg nursery recently. For some reason I never bought one and I have no good reason why. The performance is stellar and the pricetag at checkout is more than reasonable compared to new LED tech. CMH would have been half the cost and less power consumed. I like my 110w qb's but I do not like that I spent another $187 on two 100w COB's to amplify the sunshine in a 3500k spectrum whereas my qb's are all 4000k. Total price tag for my poor planning: roughly $365 between the 2 qb's and 2 COB's. 

I want to emphasize that I love my lights. However if I researched and planned more efficiently I would have a 315w CMH for nearly half the cost and operating at nearly 100w less power. Excellent choice on lighting sir. I need to get my hands on one of those puppies


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 27, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Clearly you are smarter than me  I poorly researched, planned, and executed a light upgrade for a veg nursery recently. For some reason I never bought one and I have no good reason why. The performance is stellar and the pricetag at checkout is more than reasonable compared to new LED tech. CMH would have been half the cost and less power consumed. I like my 110w qb's but I do not like that I spent another $187 on two 100w COB's to amplify the sunshine in a 3500k spectrum whereas my qb's are all 4000k. Total price tag for my poor planning: roughly $365 between the 2 qb's and 2 COB's.
> 
> I want to emphasize that I love my lights. However if I researched and planned more efficiently I would have a 315w CMH for nearly half the cost and operating at nearly 100w less power. Excellent choice on lighting sir. I need to get my hands on one of those puppies


I'm not sure smarts had a whole lot to do with it really, just more kinda the way things fell together. As a former HPS/HID grower I finally switched over to LED about a year ago with 4 QB 96's to replace a 600watt HPS. Then I added 2 more QB96's for more even coverage. Everything was great, but then winter came and so did the sold. I was struggling with temps for LED during the winter, so put in my old 400w mag ballast with an old school Philips 400w retro-white cmh lamp. I thought about just adding a heater, but I hate spending on watts with no photon outputs, and never had to worry about such a thing in 10 years of HID growing. It kinda worked ok, but I really didn't want 400watts of cmh, so decided to break down and get the 315. Once it came in I was pleased to see that even tho the light drew 20% less power than the 400w, it produced 10% more lux. My plants seem super happy with the light and IR from the cmh along with the high efficiency of the leds. I'm running my QB's really low now, @ just 50watts each (6 boards), so I'm right around 300 watts total LED plus the 315cmh. It's way more light, better spectrum, and more even coverage that I ever had from a 600w HPS, and using basically the exact same power.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 28, 2021)

Arkos said:


> Please guys this thread is providing great info for people new to Jack's and even mega crop for that matter, let's keep the info coming instead of having this thread locked.


i put him/her on ignore. 60 posts in 11 years? =sock account. 

now back to your regularly scheduled programming...


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 28, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> old school Philips 400w retro-white cmh lamp


that brings back good memories!! that was one of my first set-ups. 

if i had the space, LED + CMH would be in my room.


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## Arkos (Mar 28, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> if i had the space, LED + CMH would be in my room.


Thanks for the heads up man.

Question, how does that work with leaf surface temp's ? Does the cmh heat up the leafs sufficiently so you don't need to run you room hot af like with Led only?

If that's the case this could possibly save me a small fortune, 2000w heater is killing my light bill


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 28, 2021)

Arkos said:


> How does that work with leaf temps ? The cmh heat up the leafs so you don't need to run you room hot af like with Led only?
> 
> This could possibly save me a small fortune if that's the case, 2000w heater is killing my light bill


The lamp provides heat and lumens. The biggest downfall with LED's is they simply do not provide heat to the grow room as other conventional forms of lighting have traditionally provided. I have electric oil filled heaters in every room / tent I have LED's running to keep temps in the ideal range. So how efficient are LED's if we have to run heaters combined with the power draw of the light fixtures themselves? It's an interesting question to ask one's self. I still love my LED's, because I don't have to invest in an elaborate HVAC system to dump the heat from air cooled HID hoods. The costs for high quality reliable inline fans and glass sealed air cooled hoods raises the costs of light upgrades substantially. Not to mention cutting holes in the side of your house for a 6" or 8" grill to dump the heat outside. Not a lot of people are interested in doing that. I have 3 holes in the side of my house. It ain't no fun cutting those fucking things brother  Hanging an LED and tossing an electric heater in the grow area is exponentially easier.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 28, 2021)

Arkos said:


> Thanks for the heads up man.
> 
> Question, how does that work with leaf surface temp's ? Does the cmh heat up the leafs sufficiently so you don't need to run you room hot af like with Led only?
> 
> If that's the case this could possibly save me a small fortune, 2000w heater is killing my light bill


they definitely throw off some heat. nothing like a hps or mh though. and they have IR (pretty sure?) and UV so you get those as a bonus too. 

i would definitely try one to save on heating costs. i'd rather have more light to give me heat than a heater.


----------



## Arkos (Mar 28, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I have 3 holes in the side of my house. It ain't no fun cutting those fucking things brother


Heheh I hear yeah man, that would definitely raise some eyebrows here.

I'm using my basement so intake and extraction is through the windows and there's more rooms to use so there are options but little money atm, damn virus restrictions.



rkymtnman said:


> they definitely throw off some heat. nothing like a hps or mh though. and they have IR (pretty sure?) and UV so you get those as a bonus too.
> 
> i would definitely try one to save on heating costs. i'd rather have more light to give me heat than a heater.


Yeah thanks man, I think I'll get 2 and it'll pay for itself in 2 months with the lowered light bill.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 28, 2021)

Arkos said:


> Heheh I hear yeah man, that would definitely raise some eyebrows here.
> 
> I'm using my basement so intake and extraction is through the windows and there's more rooms to use so there are options but little money atm, damn virus restrictions.
> 
> ...


just make sure you get the real deal philips agro bulb. and vertically mounted in a reflector.


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 28, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> just make sure you get the real deal philips agro bulb. and vertically mounted in a reflector.


On point. The cheap no name and vivo sun units seem to have a very high failure rate. Phillips for the money shot baby!


----------



## HGCC (Mar 28, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> Looking good. If you add fulvic acid to your mix, you might get it down to 1.4.


What fulvic product are you using? Going to be adding some in this year and trying to decide which one to go with.


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## PJ Diaz (Mar 28, 2021)

HGCC said:


> What fulvic product are you using? Going to be adding some in this year and trying to decide which one to go with.


I'm using Mr Fulvic right now. I'm not convinced that it's the best necessarily, but it does have 4.5% Fulvic Acid.









Homepage


Mr. Fulvic is an organic amendment for plant growth that increases nutrient absorption and creates healthier and stronger plants.




www.mrfulvic.com


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 28, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> that brings back good memories!! that was one of my first set-ups.
> 
> if i had the space, LED + CMH would be in my room.


QB96's are so small, so they work really well together.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Mar 28, 2021)

Arkos said:


> Thanks for the heads up man.
> 
> Question, how does that work with leaf surface temp's ? Does the cmh heat up the leafs sufficiently so you don't need to run you room hot af like with Led only?
> 
> If that's the case this could possibly save me a small fortune, 2000w heater is killing my light bill


Yes, the IR from the cmh does help to heat up the leaf surface temp, so the room doesn't need to be quite as hot, as you're suggesting. That's exactly the reason I went this route. It doesn't heat the surface up quite as much as a pure HID grow as you would imagine, because you are mixing light sources, so it's approx a 50% reduction in IR this way compared to a 600w HPS. With HPS I alwasy found myself having to cool the room, then with LED I have to get the room warmer. Well a mix kinda gives me the best of both worlds, plus both my LERDs and CHM are dimmable, so I can adjust them accordingly. Truth is I don't even need the light from the cmh in my room, as I have plenty of power at full from my LEDs alone. Right now, I'm running my LEDs at half strength, which is also increasing their efficiency and life span.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 28, 2021)

if i had more space, i'd do a 3x6 room. 2 315s above it and some strip leds as side lighting run very softly.


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## Arkos (Mar 28, 2021)

You guys have restored my faith in humanity  Thanks for taking the time to provide great info.


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## HGCC (Mar 28, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I'm using Mr Fulvic right now. I'm not convinced that it's the best necessarily, but it does have 4.5% Fulvic Acid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Welp, that's the way I was leaning. Seems to be one of the better ones that gets recommended. Thanks.


----------



## jonnynobody (Mar 28, 2021)

Been buried in the flower room tying branches for nearly 4 hours. That really is the most time consuming task. Between weeks 3-6 it's constant branch tying. Readjustment. Shift this. Move that. But it's all worthwhile thanks to my boys at J.R. Peters. Just Jack'n it 3-2-1 style:


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## jonnynobody (Mar 28, 2021)

All the branch tying. This is how you maximize yield in a tight space with wall to wall plants. But oh....the horror. The horror...
I feel like the flower room is like a vortex into an alternate universe in which time accelerates. I sometimes walk out of there and see the clock. I just go no fucking way man. It can't be that late. I'm now convinced my flower room literally eats time at a faster rate 

This madness is enough to make anyone nauseous, but look at the photo of the canopy above this shit show and you can see the result it produces


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## jonnynobody (Mar 28, 2021)

In case you don't care for weighing out dry fertilizer when using jack's 3-2-1 you can instead make concentrated stock solutions out of jack's 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate. Then you can add each to your reservoir by ppm using a simple tds meter. Nice and easy. A lot of 3-2-1 growers omit the magnesium sulfate, because jack's is loaded with it at 6.3%. Always maintain the J.R. Peters recommended ratio of jack's 5-12-26 to calcium nitrate at 1/.67 jack's/calcium nitrate and you won't have any issues.

600 ppm is 360 ppm jacks and 240 ppm calcium nitrate 240/360=.67

750 ppm is 450 ppm jacks and 300 ppm calcium nitrate 300/450=.67

900 ppm is 540 ppm jacks and 360 ppm calcium nitrate 540/360=.67

Jack's 5-12-26 stock solution recipe:

Dissolve 880 grams Jack's 5-12-26 in 1 gallon of RO water in a milk jug. Use hot water if possible. Cold RO works fine. It just takes a bit longer to fully dissolve. Some occasional shaking over a day or so and the stock solution will fully dissolve. You now have a concentrated stable stock solution of Jack's 5-12-26.

Calcium nitrate stock solution recipe:

Dissolve 580 grams calcium nitrate in 1 gallon RO water in a ilk jug. Use hot water. The calcium nitrate mixes into solution fairly quickly. You now have a concentrated stock solution of calcium nitrate.

I recommend filling smaller more convenient containers with your stock solution using a funnel. I love the little 16 oz plastic squeeze bottles with the plastic click lids. They're very handy and convenient for adding a little stock solution to the reservoir at a time. 

Enjoy!


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## jonnynobody (Apr 5, 2021)

Just jack'n it at week 5 of flower 1.65 EC. I snapped these pics about 5 minutes before lights on. I did add floralicous plus on the last 2 feedings. I'm uncertain if I will continue. Also have some Raw brand humic acid on hand. Might incorporate that when the floralicious runs out. Still on the fence though. Seems like it may not be a necessary component in hydroponic applications. I'll have to read up a bit.

I called JR Peters today to ask whether I could use calcium nitrate with the jack's professional 10-30-20 blossom booster. The rep politely insisted in their studies done with cannabis the plant suffers no ill effects from the lack of calcium for 2 weeks that peters recommends the blossom booster with epsom salt while omitting the 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate. I'll give it a whirl on my next flower cycle and see what happens. I'm sure Peters wouldn't steer me wrong.

Blue dream front left. 2 maui waui's behind her. Monster jager on the right side towering over the others:

Blue dream

Horrible producer moonshine haze #1 x ghost train haze #1 that I'm cycling out. Almost threw both out, but I justified keeping them because they should produce at least 6-8 ounces combined and if I don't want to smoke it I'll use it for my hash oil. See how much smaller the flower structure is than the other strains? You just can't burn down all the electricity it takes to run a flower room for a strain like ghost train that just will not produce like the others:

Blue dream in the front. Maui in the rear.

Jager towering over all. Goddam she is an absolute monster and a pleasure to have in the garden. Critical mass in front of her. Much shorter and thicker colas. Jager is a heavier producer by about 2x though:


----------



## Failmore (Apr 5, 2021)

My only issue with the different formulas is the only way I can see using them is with clones. 

Even seeds from the same mother can have very different schedules. 

This is for me and how I grow mostly. People with more space and different set ups don't have my 1 res 1 tent issue.


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## PJ Diaz (Apr 5, 2021)

Failmore said:


> My only issue with the different formulas is the only way I can see using them is with clones.
> 
> Even seeds from the same mother can have very different schedules.
> 
> This is for me and how I grow mostly. People with more space and different set ups don't have my 1 res 1 tent issue.


It's true that when you run multi-strains you are forced to find the happy medium which all plants can deal with, and that it's difficult to optimize for specific strain is such a scenario, but it's doable.


----------



## jonnynobody (Apr 5, 2021)

Failmore said:


> My only issue with the different formulas is the only way I can see using them is with clones.
> 
> Even seeds from the same mother can have very different schedules.
> 
> This is for me and how I grow mostly. People with more space and different set ups don't have my 1 res 1 tent issue.


That's completely untrue sir. I use the same formula from clone through flower. 1.65 EC. May I suggest you switch to a professional fertilizer like jack's 5-12-26 with epsom salt and calcium nitrate? It sounds like your current fertilizer isn't satisfying your needs.


----------



## jonnynobody (Apr 5, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> It's true that when you run multi-strains you are forced to find the happy medium which all plants can deal with, and that it's difficult to optimize for specific strain is such a scenario, but it's doable.


I ran 7 different strains last cycle in my flower room and they all drink from the same reservoir with the same EC. I really think some people can over complicate a wet fart 

Running 7 different strains total presently from clone to veg all the way into the flower room. All 1.65 EC jack's 3-2-1. 5.8 PH. Why is this so complicated for y'all?


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 5, 2021)

i know you've been adding more light on top but i'd seriously think about running 1 or 2 strips on the sides of that big room. drive them very gently and i think you'd like the results for not much $$


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## jonnynobody (Apr 5, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i know you've been adding more light on top but i'd seriously think about running 1 or 2 strips on the sides of that big room. drive them very gently and i think you'd like the results for not much $$


God I'd love to and you're correct, I want to add 2 more small 240w qb's and yank the two 100w cobs out so they can be placed back in the nursery where they were intended to go. I might have to do the mini split before adding more light though. I got the light controller installed after my last flower cycle which was monumental for me. It just provides peace of mind knowing all my lights are controlled by a single timer. Mini split is next. Getting one with a heat pump so I can then remove the electric radiator. After that the dream is to install a natural gas c02 burner and seal the room. Baby steps


----------



## jonnynobody (Apr 5, 2021)

Here is my reservoir setup. 3 32 gallon brute cans connected to my RO unit output via line splitters. I keep 2 mixed with jacks 5-12-26, epsom salt, and calcium nitrate at the recommended ratios diluted to 1.65 EC. Some go as low as 1.3 EC start to finish. 1.65 is right for my needs. I may experiment with 1.5 next. The 3rd reservoir is my control res. Plain RO water. This is for my soil plants and diluting my Jack's reservoirs to 1.65 EC. The 4th trash can is empty on a rolling dolly. I fill that with how much I need on watering days either via 5 gallon bucket or pump and hose. Just depends what kind of day in having  fill 'er up and roll out baby! Of course jacks is so stable once the PH is set you need not check it again. It won't move. Goddam, isn't this just stupid easy with Jack's? I sure think so


----------



## Failmore (Apr 5, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> That's completely untrue sir. I use the same formula from clone through flower. 1.65 EC. May I suggest you switch to a professional fertilizer like jack's 5-12-26 with epsom salt and calcium nitrate? It sounds like your current fertilizer isn't satisfying your needs.


I'm taking about jacks. I use the tap formula. Talking about their bloom and finish. I am not able to use it because only 1 plant will be in that area at a time potentially.


----------



## jonnynobody (Apr 5, 2021)

Failmore said:


> I'm taking about jacks. I use the tap formula. Talking about their bloom and finish. I am not able to use it because only 1 plant will be in that area at a time potentially.


I completely misunderstood. Sorry bout that sir. Finish and bloom formula are not needed. That's just the good folks at Peters joining in on the capitalistic money grab in the cannabis industry. Every other cannabis fertilizer company does it and Peters is just trying to give the end user what they want while making some money at the same time. They are unnecessary products and for the short duration each is used would potentially have a marginal observable effect if any at all. I love the JR Peters company but let me be clear: they're just keeping up with the Jones's and while those products won't hurt your plants you don't need them either 

(Hint....the Jones's being the other cannabis fertilizer companies)


----------



## PJ Diaz (Apr 5, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I ran 7 different strains last cycle in my flower room and they all drink from the same reservoir with the same EC. I really think some people can over complicate a wet fart
> 
> Running 7 different strains total presently from clone to veg all the way into the flower room. All 1.65 EC jack's 3-2-1. 5.8 PH. Why is this so complicated for y'all?


When I run multi-strains I will often check the runoff of different strains, and have noticed that it can fluctuate quite a bit between strains. As an example, when I run Slurricane and Wedding Cake together, I find that Wedding Cake gobbles up the nutes, while Slurricane gets fussy when pushed too hard. So, I try to grow strains with similar nutritional needs in the same cycle.


----------



## jonnynobody (Apr 5, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> When I run multi-strains I will often check the runoff of different strains, and have noticed that it can fluctuate quite a bit between strains. As an example, when I run Slurricane and Wedding Cake together, I find that Wedding Cake gobbles up the nutes, while Slurricane gets fussy when pushed too hard. So, I try to grow strains with similar nutritional needs in the same cycle.


Great strains you're running there! What does each smell like? I've heard those names mentioned a lot in the last year. Must be some good smoke 

I will say doing water to waste buckets allows me more flexibility that other systems may not have. I hand water. No automation. I can visually tell by how much run off is produced in each 5 gallon bucket from the 1 gallon of solution I add. This tells me which girls / strains are drinking more than others. 

For instance I have 7 girls of 9 in the flower room that need watered daily. Of those 7 that need water daily 3 need it twice per day. This exact scenario is why I am vehemently against automation. You simply don't know your plants as well and cannot provide targeted care. All you know is the flood timer goes on and off. Some may be under watered while others may be receiving too much. Just say no to automation


----------



## Failmore (Apr 5, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I completely misunderstood. Sorry bout that sir. Finish and bloom formula are not needed. That's just the good folks at Peters joining in on the capitalistic money grab in the cannabis industry. Every other cannabis fertilizer company does it and Peters is just trying to give the end user what they want while making some money at the same time. They are unnecessary products and for the short duration each is used would potentially have a marginal observable effect if any at all. I love the JR Peters company but let me be clear: they're just keeping up with the Jones's and while those products won't hurt your plants you don't need them either
> 
> (Hint....the Jones's being the other cannabis fertilizer companies)


Yup. Agree with that


----------



## PJ Diaz (Apr 5, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Great strains you're running there! What does each smell like? I've heard those names mentioned a lot in the last year. Must be some good smoke
> 
> I will say doing water to waste buckets allows me more flexibility that other systems may not have. I hand water. No automation. I can visually tell by how much run off is produced in each 5 gallon bucket from the 1 gallon of solution I add. This tells me which girls / strains are drinking more than others.
> 
> For instance I have 7 girls of 9 in the flower room that need watered daily. Of those 7 that need water daily 3 need it twice per day. This exact scenario is why I am vehemently against automation. You simply don't know your plants as well and cannot provide targeted care. All you know is the flood timer goes on and off. Some may be under watered while others may be receiving too much. Just say no to automation


I love automation. I'm not the greatest at describing smells, but Slurricane is like grape-gas, but it also depends on if you pull it at 8-weeks or 10. Wedding Cake is more like TK or OG flavor to me, with a vanilla/lemon hint on the back end. I just got GG4 back, so running that with Super Lemon Haze and Wedding Cake now. Dosido and Runtz are up next..


----------



## jonnynobody (Apr 5, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I love automation. I'm not the greatest at describing smells, but Slurricane is like grape-gas, but it also depends on if you pull it at 8-weeks or 10. Wedding Cake is more like TK or OG flavor to me, with a vanilla/lemon hint on the back end. I just got GG4 back, so running that with Super Lemon Haze and Wedding Cake now. Dosido and Runtz are up next..


Well shit man you have an eye for good genetics. Congrats on getting gg4 back. I let it go a year and a half ago and I've been upset ever since. I just got my feminized 7 pack from herbies last week. She's back  Vanilla/lemon sounds like a very interesting combination. I love it. I hate automation, because I'm "that guy" that would just end up flooding his basement. And my wife bitches enough already about how much time I spend down there  

Automation in the right hands is very convenient.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 5, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I ran 7 different strains last cycle in my flower room and they all drink from the same reservoir with the same EC. I really think some people can over complicate a wet fart
> 
> Running 7 different strains total presently from clone to veg all the way into the flower room. All 1.65 EC jack's 3-2-1. 5.8 PH. Why is this so complicated for y'all?


I ran a similar dry nutrient product from a Colorado local company called hydro gardens. I didn't need to change the ratios much between veg and bloom but it was stupid easy to do it; I just juggled ratios a bit and added some MKP. DONE.

Motherfuckers at the hydro store couldn't sell me a water bottle for fuckin' free anymore.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 5, 2021)

www.hydro-gardens.com

They have a cannabis specific dry nutrient mix they sell to dispensaries, it's 4-20-39 with lots of micros. As usual, add calcium nitrate and epsom salt for a complete nutrient.


----------



## dgarcad (Apr 6, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I love automation. I'm not the greatest at describing smells, but Slurricane is like grape-gas, but it also depends on if you pull it at 8-weeks or 10. Wedding Cake is more like TK or OG flavor to me, with a vanilla/lemon hint on the back end. I just got GG4 back, so running that with Super Lemon Haze and Wedding Cake now. Dosido and Runtz are up next..


Sounds fire. Mind if I ask where the genetics are from??


----------



## PJ Diaz (Apr 6, 2021)

dgarcad said:


> Sounds fire. Mind if I ask where the genetics are from??


I got mine all as cuts from either Purple City Genetics or Dark Heart Nursery. Wedding Cake is the jbeezy cut, Slurricane is Cowboy's cut, GG4 is Josey's, SLH is Franco's, Dosido is the "norcal cut", Runtz is the Nick Runtz cut. It's great to be able to get these cuts out in Cali for $20 a pop. There are tons of other cuts I'd like to try too, but only have so much time and space. If anything I'm trying to eliminate cuts from my garden.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 6, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I got mine all as cuts from either Purple City Genetics or Dark Heart Nursery. Wedding Cake is the jbeezy cut, Slurricane is Cowboy's cut, GG4 is Josey's, SLH is Franco's, Dosido is the "norcal cut", Runtz is the Nick Runtz cut. It's great to be able to get these cuts out in Cali for $20 a pop. There are tons of other cuts I'd like to try too, but only have so much time and space. If anything I'm trying to eliminate cuts from my garden.


Damn, wish I could get my mitts on some of that.


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 6, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Here is my reservoir setup. 3 32 gallon brute cans connected to my RO unit output via line splitters. I keep 2 mixed with jacks 5-12-26, epsom salt, and calcium nitrate at the recommended ratios diluted to 1.65 EC. Some go as low as 1.3 EC start to finish. 1.65 is right for my needs. I may experiment with 1.5 next. The 3rd reservoir is my control res. Plain RO water. This is for my soil plants and diluting my Jack's reservoirs to 1.65 EC. The 4th trash can is empty on a rolling dolly. I fill that with how much I need on watering days either via 5 gallon bucket or pump and hose. Just depends what kind of day in having  fill 'er up and roll out baby! Of course jacks is so stable once the PH is set you need not check it again. It won't move. Goddam, isn't this just stupid easy with Jack's? I sure think so
> 
> View attachment 4871727


those trashcans made me chuckle. a dude around here a few yrs ago was selling his rdwc setup on craigslist: it had 8 of those 55 gal trashcans. lol. could you imagine how big those plants were? one harvest and i'd be good for a few years. lol.


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## gkay723 (Apr 7, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Been buried in the flower room tying branches for nearly 4 hours. That really is the most time consuming task. Between weeks 3-6 it's constant branch tying. Readjustment. Shift this. Move that. But it's all worthwhile thanks to my boys at J.R. Peters. Just Jack'n it 3-2-1 style:
> 
> View attachment 4865449View attachment 4865450View attachment 4865451View attachment 4865452View attachment 4865453View attachment 4865454View attachment 4865455View attachment 4865456View attachment 4865457View attachment 4865458


Very nice plants, How long do you usually veg the ones in the tent for?


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## jonnynobody (Apr 7, 2021)

gkay723 said:


> Very nice plants, How long do you usually veg the ones in the tent for?


8-10 weeks on average. Long enough to make the juice worth the squeeze. More branches and more flower sites amounts to a larger yield


----------



## .Smoke (Apr 7, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> That's completely untrue sir. I use the same formula from clone through flower. 1.65 EC. May I suggest you switch to a professional fertilizer like jack's 5-12-26 with epsom salt and calcium nitrate? It sounds like your current fertilizer isn't satisfying your needs.


I just mixed a rez and realized were @ the exact same readings.
I'm using 110/30/52g- a/ep/b per "can" for flower. Ph 5.8


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## jonnynobody (Apr 7, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> I just mixed a rez and realized were @ the exact same readings.
> I'm using 110/30/52g- a/ep/b per "can" for flower. Ph 5.8
> View attachment 4873327


That's beautiful how you have that setup. Clean and efficient. Aren't those dam trash cans the best reservoirs? I don't want to automate my flower room, but man automation in the veg room would be lovely. Or even just running drain hoses to a condensate pump like you do, because dealing with the run off is really more of a pain in the ass than hand watering them. If I only did grommets and drain hoses on all the drain holes to a condensate pump in the flower room plumbed to my sewer drain I'd be on cloud effing 9 man! Right now I'm pretty laser focused on completing my flower cycle before I have heat problems. I've never ran the flower room with this many watts before during the warm months. I'm not quite panicking, but I'm walking at attention every minute of the day until the cold front moves in tomorrow. I literally start my AC on dehumidify mode 45 minutes before lights on which spits out a ton of cold air in the flower room while dehumidifying just before lights on. I got it down to 68 or so. Hour later I'm at 81 and stable. That gets me through the hottest part of the day nice and easy. I have my HVAC setup to pipe in cold air from outside still otherwise I'd just crank the portable AC non stop. Right now all the portable AC's hot air is being dispensed into my unfinished basement area. It's 82 in there now. Fuck  What can ya do? I can't wait for my new LED's to arrive. Those HID's are effing gone as fast as I can get them out of there. When it comes time to replace the 600's I might do 2 more 660's. No energy savings, but I'll already be saving $200/month just removing the two 1000's and the AC not running as frequently if at all. The vision is five 660w panels, a 450w panel supplemented with two 100w 3500k COB's, and a portable AC cooling the room as needed. They're manufacturing my new two new 660's right now in 3500k lm301b ships with 660nm and 760nm epistar reds and mean well drivers. I should have them via express sea support freight within 4 weeks. I won't even be done trimming the next harvest when they arrive, so the timing is perfect. I could have had them in 10 days via ups express for $200 more. No thanks. Sea support freight sounds aye okay to me 

$695 and change for the two 660w qb's with shipping. Got 'er done on the cheap and this is my 3rd order with this company through alibaba. Great people, products, service, and prices.


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## Fuckingatodeaso (Apr 7, 2021)

.

Check out what jack's is recommending for boosting at 18:35. Good info.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 7, 2021)

Fuckingatodeaso said:


> .
> 
> Check out what jack's is recommending for boosting at 18:35. Good info.


Checking out the video now. Just for fun I'm going to try their bloom booster next flower cycle with a strain that I've grown many times and am familiar with. If I notice a positive difference I'll say so. If not I will say so also  The recommendation on their feed chart is 1-2 weeks so if I ran it for 2 weeks that could amount to 14 feedings with the bloom enhancer as most of my plants drink daily once they enter the flower room. That's certainly enough exposure to have an effect. I don't have any interest in trying their clone formula though. 3-2-1 works excellent for clones. I'll come back and chat more after I watch the video. Thank you by the way! I love any informative videos I can watch about Jack's fertilizer.


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## Fuckingatodeaso (Apr 7, 2021)

I'm also going to do a side by side to see if it makes a difference. I'll keep you guys updated. My theory is that it won't change quality but perhaps faster flower setting, shorter plants and maybe a little higher yield due to the fact that flower formation occurred earlier. I'm loving the fact that my water is clear. It's so nice. No more flora nova crap on the bottom of my res or stupid red dye in flora series.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 7, 2021)

Fuckingatodeaso said:


> *My theory is that it won't change quality but perhaps faster flower setting, shorter plants and maybe a little higher yield due to the fact that flower formation occurred earlier. *


I think you're on to something there. The sudden introduction of a healthy dose of MKP, which is what jack's professional 10-30-20 blossom booster mostly contains, for the first 2 weeks of flower could rapidly accelerate the flower set process. With that the flowers have more time to develop, thicken, and ripen. Your theory seems aye okay with me. I'm actually pretty excited to give it a whirl. GreenGene, one of the first big promoters of jack's 321, used MKP in his jack's regimen. If jack's and GreeneGene say to use it you've got my attention loud and clear  I'm looking forward to comparing results with you down the road as this little experiment unfolds.


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## .Smoke (Apr 7, 2021)

Fuckingatodeaso said:


> .
> 
> Check out what jack's is recommending for boosting at 18:35. Good info.





jonnynobody said:


> I think you're on to something there. The sudden introduction of a healthy dose of MKP, which is what jack's professional 10-30-20 blossom booster mostly contains, for the first 2 weeks of flower could rapidly accelerate the flower set process. With that the flowers have more time to develop, thicken, and ripen. Your theory seems aye okay with me. I'm actually pretty excited to give it a whirl. GreenGene, one of the first big promoters of jack's 321, used MKP in his jack's regimen. If jack's and GreeneGene say to use it you've got my attention loud and clear  I'm looking forward to comparing results with you down the road as this little experiment unfolds.


I've been thinking about adding a 3rd reservoir for this exact reason. It seems each time I move a plant into flower I get a few deficiencies after a couple weeks. I've tried raising part A to compensate, but then I see signs of burning on the plants over week 5.

I'm thinking a 3rd reservoir with the booster added feeding them for the first couple of weeks after flip just might be a solution...


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## jonnynobody (Apr 7, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> I've been thinking about adding a 3rd reservoir for this exact reason. It seems each time I move a plant into flower I get a few deficiencies after a couple weeks. I've tried raising part A to compensate, but then I see signs of burning on the plants over week 5.
> 
> I'm thinking a 3rd reservoir with the booster added feeding them for the first couple of weeks after flip just might be a solution...


When I was running a higher EC around 1.8 I noticed burn on the foliage. Dropping to 1.6-1.65 seems to have solved that problem. Let's run it man. We got 3 of us trying this experiment out. There are some guys that swear by 600ppm start to finish. Just for shits and grins I'm going to run my next clone tote at that ppm just to see what happens. If there are no deficiencies then why not, right? I'm too afraid to try that in my flower room, but I'll test the waters on some little ladies that have less value 

I'm also going to look into their finish formula. I'm so dam impressed with the remarkable improvement in flavor and burn qualities of the blue dream I recently harvested that I'd try just about anything Peters suggests. Their fertilizer grows fantastic tasting hydroponic flowers. No more dark maxi ash. Feels good patronizing a great company like Peters that really care about their customers and the plants they grow versus the other guys. No marketing fluff. Just great products.


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## Fuckingatodeaso (Apr 7, 2021)




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## Fuckingatodeaso (Apr 7, 2021)

That formula has a lot of nitrogen and even potassium. I think it's a general use booster. Phosphate is the main driver to supposedly turn on flowering genes. Check out the description on the 5-50-18 bag.


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## .Smoke (Apr 7, 2021)

Fuckingatodeaso said:


> That formula has a lot of nitrogen and even potassium. I think it's a general use booster. Phosphate is the main driver to supposedly turn on flowering genes. Check out the description on the 5-50-18 bag.


Yeah, wrong one for sure. I canceled and have a 2.2lb bag of the ultra violent coming 11-15th.


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## dgarcad (Apr 7, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I got mine all as cuts from either Purple City Genetics or Dark Heart Nursery. Wedding Cake is the jbeezy cut, Slurricane is Cowboy's cut, GG4 is Josey's, SLH is Franco's, Dosido is the "norcal cut", Runtz is the Nick Runtz cut. It's great to be able to get these cuts out in Cali for $20 a pop. There are tons of other cuts I'd like to try too, but only have so much time and space. If anything I'm trying to eliminate cuts from my garden.



That sounds like a great problem to have bro. That’s fucking amazing. I looked up DHN and damn they have a ton of great strains. This might be a stupid question, but there’s no way to get a cut shipped?


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## PJ Diaz (Apr 7, 2021)

dgarcad said:


> That sounds like a great problem to have bro. That’s fucking amazing. I looked up DHN and damn they have a ton of great strains. This might be a stupid question, but there’s no way to get a cut shipped?


I don't believe that they ship. A road trip in a rental car is pretty cheap these days though. You could come out to Cali and get all the cuts you want for cheap cheap.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 8, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> Yeah, wrong one for sure. I canceled and have a 2.2lb bag of the ultra violent coming 11-15th.


Are you planning to use the 5-50-18 for 1-2 weeks at the 12/12 transition? That's a very interesting formula! I'm pretty certain I'm going to order their finish formula today. I want to hear the specific benefits so I can better understand how the product will help versus finishing with the 321. That 5-50-18 must be popular because growgreenmi is sold out


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## jonnynobody (Apr 8, 2021)

Just emailed this to Peter and am awaiting a response:

Hi, I'm currently using your 3-2-1 system with great results growing cannabis. However I'm interested in hearing more about your 7-15-30 finish formula. Can you tell me the benefits of switching to the 7-15-30 finish formula for 1-2 weeks at the end of the flower cycle versus finishing with the 321 system? Also, what are your thoughts on using the UV 5-50-18 formula for 1 week at the 12/12 transition instead of the blossom booster? It seems some growers are opting for your 5-50-18 formula instead of the blossom booster. I'm curious what the pros at Jack's think. Shoot me a line when you get a chance, and thank you very much for your time and expert advice.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 8, 2021)




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## dgarcad (Apr 8, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I don't believe that they ship. A road trip in a rental car is pretty cheap these days though. You could come out to Cali and get all the cuts you want for cheap cheap.


I would love too bro. It’s about a 20hr drive for me so not terrible. Wouldn’t the clones die on the way? Also, with clones you can still get either sex right? Probably better to buy a few of each?


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## jonnynobody (Apr 8, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


>


Watch 51:50 of GreenGene's video up there. Fucking epic knowledge bomb


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 8, 2021)

so im using Jacks RO formula with my tap water which is supposed to be the same 3-1-4 NPK as Jacks 321 except its a 1 part according to jr peters

everythings healthy but I did run into some phosphorus deficiencies in the beginning of flower. leaves turned purple. also had some calcium deficiencies along with it.

u jacks 321 guys running into this problem too? i ran jacks 321 for a run a yr ago but i cant remember exactly what happened. just got tired of mixing so many powders so often.

im thinking of trying the blossom booster 10-30-20 for weeks 1-2 when they start budding but it has no calcium in it at all. so idk how that works exactly. their feed chart doesnt mention having to add cal-nit with the blossom booster 10-30-20


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## Fuckingatodeaso (Apr 8, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Watch 51:50 of GreenGene's video up there. Fucking epic knowledge bomb


That's right. The casparian strip does not allow organic material to pass through it. I've told people that plants don't utilize organic material for growth in the root zone but rather the biproduct of microbiological activity there but they don't want to hear it. It's the same when I tell people that over 80 percent of a cows diet is saturated fat due to microbiological activity in the rumen but I see the same look of bewilderment.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 8, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> so im using Jacks RO formula with my tap water which is supposed to be the same 3-1-4 NPK


it's actually not the same: if you go by the label, 321 would be 5-12-26 + 15-0-0 = 20-12-26 or close to 1.5-1-2


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 8, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> it's actually not the same: if you go by the label, 321 would be 5-12-26 + 15-0-0 = 20-12-26 or close to 1.5-1-2


i see. so 321 has double the phosphorus as this ro formula. thats a game changer


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## jonnynobody (Apr 8, 2021)

Fuckingatodeaso said:


> That's right. The casparian strip does not allow organic material to pass through it. I've told people that plants don't utilize organic material for growth in the root zone but rather the biproduct of microbiological activity there but they don't want to hear it. It's the same when I tell people that over 80 percent of a cows diet is saturated fat due to microbiological activity in the rumen but I see the same look of bewilderment.


People ignore the truth when it doesn't align with their deeply held igorance....I mean beliefs  dam brain fart typo.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 8, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> i see. so 321 has double the phosphorus as this ro formula. thats a game changer


i run the RO formula with well water and need nothing else. iv'e never tried 321 myself.


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 8, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i run the RO formula with well water and need nothing else. iv'e never tried 321 myself.


ya i run it with my tap water 0.4ec.... its great just not perfect. 

i just had some purple leaves early flower when they started budding along with some calcium deficiencies here and there. 

couldve been my pH being over 6. i think i kept it like 6.3 in hydro this time.... not really anal about pH these days. as long as its anywhere from 5.5-6.5


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## jonnynobody (Apr 8, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i run the RO formula with well water and need nothing else. iv'e never tried 321 myself.


Shit why would you wanna monkey with 321 when Jack's tap is kicking ass for you? I'm all about simple. If it ain't broke. Don't fix it 

Still awaiting a reply from the fine folks at Peters about my finish formula question. The pot I just dried and smoked grown with jacks is so effing good I'm willing to do anything to my plants Peters suggests. Clearly they know what the fuck they're doing! I haven't had good soil tasting pot since the last time I used jacks 321 in my hydro buckets. They say use a finish formula? Done. I have no reason not to trust them at this point. They're basically the only fertilizer company I've ever dealt with that is honest, professional, and treat their customers like family. Not to mention their fertilizer grows the best tasting hydro pot I've ever had in my life! I feel like these mofos need to put me on the marketing payroll 

I just shopped around for and ordered a 25# bag of Jack's finish formula for $83 with shipping. Of course I paid the extra $3 for the sticker pack! 

Light speed ahead fellas!


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## jonnynobody (Apr 8, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> ya i run it with my tap water 0.4ec.... its great just not perfect.
> 
> i just had some purple leaves early flower when they started budding along with some calcium deficiencies here and there.
> 
> couldve been my pH being over 6. i think i kept it like 6.3 in hydro this time.... not really anal about pH these days. as long as its anywhere from 5.5-6.5


If you are doing hydro you really need to set your PH to 5.8 or so. Soil is 6.3-6.5. Certain elements become unavailable to the plant if the PH is out of range. Jacks is incredibly stable. When you set it once it doesn't move a single tenth of a point for 8 days in a stationary bubbling res. There is no excuse to not PH. It takes like 2 minutes. Have a coke and a smile while you knock that shit out in the interest of frosty nuggy goodness. Sorry, didn't mean to get all technical on you there. I only break out the word nuggy for the real serious conversations


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 8, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> If you are doing hydro you really need to set your PH to 5.8 or so. Soil is 6.3-6.5. Certain elements become unavailable to the plant if the PH is out of range. Jacks is incredibly stable. When you set it once it doesn't move a single tenth of a point for 8 days in a stationary bubbling res. There is no excuse to not PH. It takes like 2 minutes. Have a coke and a smile while you knock that shit out in the interest of frosty nuggy goodness. Sorry, didn't mean to get all technical on you there. I only break out the word nuggy for the real serious conversations


all the nutrients ive used over the years my pH always rises in the first day or two then stays somewhat stable. ill set it at ~6 after dumping in the nutes then next day i come itll be up to a 6.4. i just left it at 6.4 this time. couldve been the reason for the purpling of leaves idk. its here and there.

ill try dropping it to 5.5ph after dumping in the nutes next time then let it fluctuate to a 6.0 and leave it.

dont know why that is exactly... could be rockwool as my medium or the most likely its the tap water i use that causes ph to rise initially


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## jonnynobody (Apr 8, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> all the nutrients ive used over the years my pH always rises in the first day or two then stays somewhat stable. ill set it at ~6 after dumping in the nutes then next day i come itll be up to a 6.4. i just left it at 6.4 this time. couldve been the reason for the purpling of leaves idk. its here and there.
> 
> ill try dropping it to 5.5ph after dumping in the nutes next time then let it fluctuate to a 6.0 and leave it.
> 
> dont know why that is exactly... could be rockwool as my medium or the most likely its the tap water i use that causes ph to rise initially


That's a fair assessment. I'm on RO water and I can't remember if I had any PH fluctuation when I was running jack's 5-12-26 with tap water. And to be fair I've no experience with Jack's Tap formula. However, I think you're on point as rockwool being your PH culprit. I specifically use #4 perlite or hydroton, because they are truly inert. They don't affect your PH or interact with your fertilizer in any way shape or form. Rockwool and coco do not share this inert attribute which is why I never recommend either. There are simply better options that do not cause PH fluctation. Why not use them and ditch the problem mediums? I use and recommend #4 chunky perlite because it's the cheapest light weight inert medium I can find readily available all the time. It doesn't interact with my fertilizer. It doesn't interact with my PH. It is truly and inert medium. I get 1.5cu ft for $40. 2 bags is enough to pot all the plants for an entire flower cycle, and that's a 12x16 dude! The point is there are other mediums that are much better and will cause you less headaches. Hydroton isn't bad, but it's fucked up heavy and offers no superior benefits to perlite. It is also more expensive than #4 chunky perlite. Ditch the rockwool my friend. It is causing you unnecessary PH fluctuation. Switch over to something else that doesn't do that. Anything else 

Found this on RW:

One of the drawbacks to using rockwool cubes is the special care and consideration that needs to be taken when working with them. While they are a beneficial resource for hydroponics growing system, they do have some important drawbacks that need to be addressed.


*DO* take the time to properly prepare rockwool cubes before starting seeds or trying to root cuttings. *Their natural pH is too high for optimum plant growth and will create problems and instability within the hydroponics system if left at that alkalinity.*









How to use Rockwool Cubes for Growing, Seed Starting, and Cutting Propagation - Trees.com


Rockwool is a mainstay growing media for commercial hydroponics growers. I'm going to find out its use, how to prepare, and use it for growing, and propagation.




www.trees.com


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 8, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> That's a fair assessment. I'm on RO water and I can't remember if I had any PH fluctuation when I was running jack's 5-12-26 with tap water. And to be fair I've no experience with Jack's Tap formula. However, I think you're on point as rockwool being your PH culprit. I specifically use #4 perlite or hydroton, because they are truly inert. They don't affect your PH or interact with your fertilizer in any way shape or form. Rockwool and coco do not share this inert attribute which is why I never recommend either. There are simply better options that do not cause PH fluctation. Why not use them and ditch the problem mediums? I use and recommend #4 chunky perlite because it's the cheapest light weight inert medium I can find readily available all the time. It doesn't interact with my fertilizer. It doesn't interact with my PH. It is truly and inert medium. I get 1.5cu ft for $40. 2 bags is enough to pot all the plants for an entire flower cycle, and that's a 12x16 dude! The point is there are other mediums that are much better and will cause you less headaches. Hydroton isn't bad, but it's fucked up heavy and offers no superior benefits to perlite. It is also more expensive than #4 chunky perlite. Ditch the rockwool my friend. It is causing you unnecessary PH fluctuation. Switch over to something else that doesn't do that. Anything else
> 
> Found this on RW:
> 
> ...


ya its all good ill just start at a lower pt of pH from now on.

whats ur method for creating concentrated stock solutions for 321? i think ill go back to it cause the blue residue the RO formula leaves is too messy for my liking.

only reason i left jacks is cause i have 4 70 gal reservoirs and got tired of mixing all those powders for each rez. a concentrated stock solution would solve that problem for me

i got left over 5gal dynagro containers. im thinking ill fill them up with my tap water then fill it with a powder and mix it...making a stock solution. whats the grams per gal for the base, cal-nit and epsom needed?


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## TintEastwood (Apr 8, 2021)

On the subject of PH.

I'm trying to understand N types. Ammonical N for example....if when how much for what substrate.






How the Ammonium-nitrate ratio affects your plants | CANNA Gardening USA


In this article, we are going to look specifically at the effect of the ammonium/nitrate ratio and its effect on the growth and development. Read more >




www.cannagardening.com





Notice how the Jacks bagged 10-30-20 is 50/50 on the Nitrate/Ammonical percentages.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 8, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> ya its all good ill just start at a lower pt of pH from now on.
> 
> whats ur method for creating concentrated stock solutions for 321? i think ill go back to it cause the blue residue the RO formula leaves is too messy for my liking.
> 
> ...


2# Jack's to 1 gallon water. Max solubility is 3#/gallon. Might take a day for it to all go into solution at 3#/gallon. I believe calcium nitrate is 580g/gallon. Let me confirm the calcium nitrate stock solution rate. Stock solutions are lovely


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## jonnynobody (Apr 9, 2021)

Man I love jack's customer service as much as I love their products:

_Thanks for reaching out and choosing Jack's! Great questions about our Ultraviolet and Finish formulas.


We have seen great results with both of the Bloom and Ultraviolet products in our trials. However, we typically recommend the 10-30-20 Bloom over the Ultraviolet – not that the ultraviolet is a bad product, but we prefer the 10-30-20 ratio. We have seen the Bloom formula do a great job of shutting down vegetative growth and beginning flower and bud production. We have seen the Ultraviolet do the same; however, sometimes the high phosphorus levels in the Ultraviolet can induce increased internode stretching which in many cases is not desirable. With that being said, some growers prefer the increased phosphorus levels in the Ultraviolet formula and use this formula with great success. So, I would personally recommend the Bloom, but Ultraviolet is also a great product!


The high potassium in our 7-15-30 Finish formula is the driving force to fatten up and bulk buds, making them more uniform and dense. This is pretty much our "bud hardener" with additional micronutrients for your plants too. Keep in mind it does not have calcium in it, which is okay, since you are only using it for 1-2 weeks. Let me know if I can help you with anything else.


Happy Growing!!


*Kaitlyn Sterner*_


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## Fuckingatodeaso (Apr 9, 2021)

Unlike GH they don't treat people like dicks for asking questions. I'm not saying that the people at jack's are wrong. (they obviously know more than me) but I don't understand how if your nitrogen and potassium levels are already adequate, then why pump them up as well? Maybe people are using 10-30-20 in place of 12-4-16 along with cal nit or over doing it with the ultraviolet as an addition or even using the ultraviolet as a replacement for base as well?


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 9, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Man I love jack's customer service as much as I love their products:
> 
> _Thanks for reaching out and choosing Jack's! Great questions about our Ultraviolet and Finish formulas.
> 
> ...


i see. when they say it has no calcium in it are they referencing that about the 10-30-20 and that its ok to have the plants eating no calcium for the first 1-2 weeks of flip?

or was that about the finish 7-15-30


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## jonnynobody (Apr 9, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> i see. when they say it has no calcium in it are they referencing that about the 10-30-20 and that its ok to have the plants eating no calcium for the first 1-2 weeks of flip?
> 
> or was that about the finish 7-15-30


Both. What jack's found is that the tissue in cannabis (after doing a tissue sample analysis) is a super accumulator of calcium. Going 1-2 weeks without at the onset of flower doesn't affect them negatively one bit. They'll be riding high on reserves that you fed them in veg. Then after 2 weeks you're right back on it as their onboard supply of calcium is depleting. Then as the plant is finishing you begin using the 7-15-30 ripening formula with epsom salts. This drastically reduces the nitrogen input and omits the calcium while elevating the P & K which is what the plant wants primarily in the final phase of growing. She's trying to push out those last flowers, and if you provide the proper formula she'll have everything she needs and nothing she doesn't. Peters knows their shit


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## jonnynobody (Apr 9, 2021)

Fuckingatodeaso said:


> Unlike GH they don't treat people like dicks for asking questions. I'm not saying that the people at jack's are wrong. (they obviously know more than me) but I don't understand how if your nitrogen and potassium levels are already adequate, then why pump them up as well?


When using the 10-30-20 for 1-2 weeks at the 12/12 flip you stop using calcium nitrate and the 5-12-26. The plants still need nitrogen, but the higher levels of P and K tell the plant's hormones "it's time to flower" to initiate flower set. Once that's achieved you switch back to the standard 3-2-1 formula. Then just before harvest you omit the calcium nitrate once more and use the 7-15-30 with epsom salt to promote ripening while drastically reducing the amount of N. The extra P and K promote thickening of the flowers while reducing the amount of N and omitting calcium completely. Just jack'n it baby


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## Fuckingatodeaso (Apr 9, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> When using the 10-30-20 for 1-2 weeks at the 12/12 flip you stop using calcium nitrate and the 5-12-26. The plants still need nitrogen, but the higher levels of P and K tell the plant's hormones "it's time to flower" to initiate flower set. Once that's achieved you switch back to the standard 3-2-1 formula. Then just before harvest you omit the calcium nitrate once more and use the 7-15-30 with epsom salt to promote ripening while drastically reducing the amount of N. The extra P and K promote thickening of the flowers while reducing the amount of N and omitting calcium completely. Just jack'n it baby


That makes sense. I was thinking people were using it the way the old school boosters worked. (adding it on top of everything else)


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## jonnynobody (Apr 9, 2021)

Fuckingatodeaso said:


> That makes sense. I was thinking people were using it the way the old school boosters worked. (adding it on top of everything else)


I use to think the same way because the fertilizer companies brain washed me like everyone else. Then I found my friends at Jack's who set me straight


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## Fuckingatodeaso (Apr 9, 2021)

Being that I go from clone to veging for 5 days or so before the flip I don't think I'll have enough calcium reserves to use the 10-30-20 with out the cal nit. I'll do a 5-12-26 plus cal nit and ultra violet pending on plugging it into a nutrient calculator and what the people at jacks say about it. They might tell me to go 10-20-30 plus a little cal nit.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 9, 2021)

Fuckingatodeaso said:


> Being that I go from clone to veging for 5 days or so before the flip I don't think I'll have enough calcium reserves to use the 10-30-20 with out the cal nit. I'll do a 5-12-26 plus cal nit and ultra violet pending on plugging it into a nutrient calculator and what the people at jacks say about it. They might tell me to go 10-20-30 plus a little cal nit.


Peters told me 10-20-30 is not compatible with calcium nitrate. I didn't ask any further questions about the nature of the interaction, but I suspect something will precipitate out. Probably calcium sulfate. For your unique situation where you have a non existent veg cycle I'd just run 3-2-1 then the finish formula for the last 2 weeks.


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## Fuckingatodeaso (Apr 9, 2021)

I might just order pure monopotassium phosphate from customhydronutrients.com for one side and do regular 3-2-1 on the other.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 9, 2021)

Fuckingatodeaso said:


> I might just order pure monopotassium phosphate from customhydronutrients.com for one side and do regular 3-2-1 on the other.


That's what GreenGene used. You can't go wrong with pure MKP for a flower boost. And you can add it right to your 3-2-1 mix. No compatibility issues. Cheap too!


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## jonnynobody (Apr 9, 2021)

I just calculated how much 7-15-30 I'll be consuming per week @ 5g/gallon x 147gallons the flower room takes over the course of 7 days =735g. I'm glad I got the 25# bag! That's 1470g over the 2 week period each flower cycle which is 3.28# I'm looking forward to running it and sharing my results.


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 9, 2021)

gonna order a 2.2lb bag of the 7-15-30 and give it the last 2 weeks comparing it the ro formula. 

i dont have high hopes though. i want to see if theres a visual difference of extra resin or smell from all that extra sulfur or maybe bigger nugs from the low n and higher p and k last 2 weeks. if theres no visual difference ill just stick to my simple regimen. its solid as is


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## jonnynobody (Apr 10, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> gonna order a 2.2lb bag of the 7-15-30 and give it the last 2 weeks comparing it the ro formula.
> 
> i dont have high hopes though. i want to see if theres a visual difference of extra resin or smell from all that extra sulfur or maybe bigger nugs from the low n and higher p and k last 2 weeks. if theres no visual difference ill just stick to my simple regimen. its solid as is


The science behind the formula makes sense. It's not just about adding the 7-15-30 as it is about completely changing the nutritive profile. When looking at the 3-2-1 feed chart you can see they eliminate the calcium nitrate and 5-12-26 completely. Gone. Out the window. All that remains is the 7-15-30 and epsom salt. Elevated P and very high K content with lots of magnesium sulfate. Everything the plant needs to ripen. Another grower here used it and had some positive things to say: https://rollitup.org/t/hso-green-crack-rdwc.1036861/page-2#post-16259139

I ordered 2 days ago and the Peters website still shows processing, but my order from 2 years ago still says processing also. Hopefully it shows up Monday because I only have about 13 days of flower left. Don't wanna miss my chance to test it out right away


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 11, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> The science behind the formula makes sense. It's not just about adding the 7-15-30 as it is about completely changing the nutritive profile. When looking at the 3-2-1 feed chart you can see they eliminate the calcium nitrate and 5-12-26 completely. Gone. Out the window. All that remains is the 7-15-30 and epsom salt. Elevated P and very high K content with lots of magnesium sulfate. Everything the plant needs to ripen. Another grower here used it and had some positive things to say: https://rollitup.org/t/hso-green-crack-rdwc.1036861/page-2#post-16259139
> 
> I ordered 2 days ago and the Peters website still shows processing, but my order from 2 years ago still says processing also. Hopefully it shows up Monday because I only have about 13 days of flower left. Don't wanna miss my chance to test it out right away


it does make sense. just ordered a 2.2lb bag to test a side by side. ill give it the last 2 weeks on one side of my room and see what happens.

it should arrive just on time for me to hit it at w7 of flower.


btw what are you keeping these 25lb bags of powder in? i use 5gal buckets with the gamma seal lids but the lids are pricy.... like 12 bucks a pop maybe i should just keep them in the 25lb bags they provide....


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## jonnynobody (Apr 11, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> it does make sense. just ordered a 2.2lb bag to test a side by side. ill give it the last 2 weeks on one side of my room and see what happens.
> 
> it should arrive just on time for me to hit it at w7 of flower.
> 
> ...


I use a 5 gallon bucket and a lid with inset gasket for $1.78 @ home depot for my jack's 5-12-26. I'll use the same for the finish formula. Cheap and effective 








The Home Depot 5 gal. Orange Leakproof Bucket Lid with Gasket 5GLD ORANGE LID for 5GL HOMER PAIL - The Home Depot


The 5 gal. Homer Leakproof Lid is made of plastic material. This lid has a special design for leak resistance and contains a gasket to seal in liquid. The Home Depot orange color is an ideal match the



www.homedepot.com


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## Treesomewanted77 (Apr 11, 2021)

Check out the thread coco potting up on here. It shows some results using 19-4-23 start to finish. I’m pretty sure the guy uses sunshine #4 advanced and watered 3 times a day with 20% runoff but the guy who posted his results can explain it better he has been using that system for many yrs now with great results


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 11, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I use a 5 gallon bucket and a lid with inset gasket for $1.78 @ home depot for my jack's 5-12-26. I'll use the same for the finish formula. Cheap and effective
> 
> 
> 
> ...


very nice. so i decided im going to switch from the ro formula jacks cause of the blue stains its leaving everywhere.

as far as concentrates how do i go about making them? ive dealt with powders for the past few yrs but never made concentrates.

for jacks 5-12-26 i make a 1:100 concentrate right
360 grams in 1 gallon of ro. then how much of that do i pour in my 70gal rez to get the correct ec for part A?


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## jonnynobody (Apr 11, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> very nice. so i decided im going to switch from the ro formula jacks cause of the blue stains its leaving everywhere.
> 
> as far as concentrates how do i go about making them? ive dealt with powders for the past few yrs but never made concentrates.
> 
> ...


Referenced from earlier in the thread:

In case you don't care for weighing out dry fertilizer when using jack's 3-2-1 you can instead make concentrated stock solutions out of jack's 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate. Then you can add each to your reservoir by ppm using a simple tds meter. Nice and easy. A lot of 3-2-1 growers omit the magnesium sulfate, because jack's is loaded with it at 6.3%. Always maintain the J.R. Peters recommended ratio of jack's 5-12-26 to calcium nitrate at 1/.67 jack's/calcium nitrate and you won't have any issues.

600 ppm is 360 ppm jacks and 240 ppm calcium nitrate 240/360=.67

750 ppm is 450 ppm jacks and 300 ppm calcium nitrate 300/450=.67

900 ppm is 540 ppm jacks and 360 ppm calcium nitrate 540/360=.67

Jack's 5-12-26 stock solution recipe:

Dissolve 880 grams Jack's 5-12-26 in 1 gallon of RO water in a milk jug. Use hot water if possible. Cold RO works fine. It just takes a bit longer to fully dissolve. Some occasional shaking over a day or so and the stock solution will fully dissolve. You now have a concentrated stable stock solution of Jack's 5-12-26.

Calcium nitrate stock solution recipe:

Dissolve 580 grams calcium nitrate in 1 gallon RO water in a milk jug. Use hot water. The calcium nitrate mixes into solution fairly quickly. You now have a concentrated stock solution of calcium nitrate.

I recommend filling smaller more convenient containers with your stock solution using a funnel. I love the old dish soap concentrate bottles. Very heavy duty and I love the flip cap with the squirt style dispenser. Or 16oz squeeze bottles. Whatever floats your boat.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 11, 2021)

I actually just began experimenting with 1.3 EC on my very large critical mass. She has showed signs of tip burn the closer she's gotten to the lights. She's over grown due to planning error on my part so she's going through two 8 week veg cycles. Dam thing is just too big and the branches are too close to the lights. Many long time growers swear by 1.3 EC start to finish with jack's 321. I thought, what the hell? Why not give it a shot? The rest of my garden is still on 1.6 EC. If 1.3 EC keeps them happy then it is what it is. I'll report back in a few days how critical mass is enjoying her 1.3 EC.


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 11, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Referenced from earlier in the thread:
> 
> In case you don't care for weighing out dry fertilizer when using jack's 3-2-1 you can instead make concentrated stock solutions out of jack's 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate. Then you can add each to your reservoir by ppm using a simple tds meter. Nice and easy. A lot of 3-2-1 growers omit the magnesium sulfate, because jack's is loaded with it at 6.3%. Always maintain the J.R. Peters recommended ratio of jack's 5-12-26 to calcium nitrate at 1/.67 jack's/calcium nitrate and you won't have any issues.
> 
> ...


gotcha. so how would i go about calculating how much of those concentrates to pour into a 70gal rez to reach full strength jacks?

is there a way to use some maths for it or just trial and error to achieve the desired jacks and calc nit ppm


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## jonnynobody (Apr 11, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> gotcha. so how would i go about calculating how much of those concentrates to pour into a 70gal rez to reach full strength jacks?
> 
> is there a way to use some maths for it or just trial and error to achieve the desired jacks and calc nit ppm


Use 1 gallon of RO water to get a baseline. Add 10ML of jack's? What's your ppm? From there you can do a little math to determine how many ml of jack's you need per gallon to achieve the ratio you desire. Once you determine your ml's per gallon of stock solution it takes to achieve your desired ppm you just multiply that number times 70 to figure out how many ml's of jack's stock solution it takes to reach your target ppm for your 70 gallon res. I eventually determined powders were easier for me. I tried the stock solutions a few times and I went back to weighing my powders. Just my preference. No other reason.


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 12, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Use 1 gallon of RO water to get a baseline. Add 10ML of jack's? What's your ppm? From there you can do a little math to determine how many ml of jack's you need per gallon to achieve the ratio you desire. Once you determine your ml's per gallon of stock solution it takes to achieve your desired ppm you just multiply that number times 70 to figure out how many ml's of jack's stock solution it takes to reach your target ppm for your 70 gallon res. I eventually determined powders were easier for me. I tried the stock solutions a few times and I went back to weighing my powders. Just my preference. No other reason.


i see. so ill make the stock and test it out.

im just tired of weighing it out 1 by 1 for my 4 70 gal rez's every time. it has gotten easier though lately cause ive been using boiling hot water. it mixes much easier than using room temperature water.


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## Atomizer (Apr 12, 2021)

Stock solutions should be made very accurately to ensure repeatable results. Weigh 1000g of RO, pour it into a clear container and mark the level. Tip it out, add 100g of jacks to the container and add RO up to your 1L mark. Wait for the chems to dissolve completely and then top back up to your 1L mark. 10ml of this stock solution will contain 1g of jacks. Do the same for the calcinit but add 67g. 10ml of the stock will contain 0.67g of calcinit. For 1 gallon stocks you would add 378.5g of jacks and 253.6g of calcinit. 10ml of each stock will give the same 1g and 0.67g. 70 gallons is about 265L so if you needed to add 1g/L of jacks and .67g/L of calcinit you`d add 2.65L of each stock to the res. Note, the res should be at least 5.3L short of full to account for the stock volume or your ppm calculations will be adrift. If you mark the 70 gal level on the res you can top it up to the mark after adding the stocks. You`ll need 10.6L (2.8 gal) of each stock solution to dose 4x 70 gal reservoirs at the 1g/L, 0.67g/L rate. Depending on the solubility of jacks you could use 1:200 stocks. To figure the ppm you`d add 10ml of the jacks stock to a container and topup to the 1L mark with RO. The resulting ppm will be for 1g/L of jacks .From that result you can calculate the amount you need to add for any ppm. For example, if the result came in a 100ppm you know that 1ml/L will add 10ppm, 0.5ml/L will add 5ppm. Do the same for the calcinit.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 12, 2021)

Atomizer said:


> Stock solutions should be made very accurately to ensure repeatable results. Weigh 1000g of RO, pour it into a clear container and mark the level. Tip it out, add 100g of jacks to the container and add RO up to your 1L mark. Wait for the chems to dissolve completely and then top back up to your 1L mark. 10ml of this stock solution will contain 1g of jacks. Do the same for the calcinit but add 67g. 10ml of the stock will contain 0.67g of calcinit. For 1 gallon stocks you would add 378.5g of jacks and 253.6g of calcinit. 10ml of each stock will give the same 1g and 0.67g. 70 gallons is about 265L so if you needed to add 1g/L of jacks and .67g/L of calcinit you`d add 2.65L of each stock to the res. Note, the res should be at least 5.3L short of full to account for the stock volume or your ppm calculations will be adrift. If you mark the 70 gal level on the res you can top it up to the mark after adding the stocks. You`ll need 10.6L (2.8 gal) of each stock solution to dose 4x 70 gal reservoirs at the 1g/L, 0.67g/L rate. Depending on the solubility of jacks you could use 1:200 stocks. To figure the ppm you`d add 10ml of the jacks stock to a container and topup to the 1L mark with RO. The resulting ppm will be for 1g/L of jacks .From that result you can calculate the amount you need to add for any ppm. For example, if the result came in a 100ppm you know that 1ml/L will add 10ppm, 0.5ml/L will add 5ppm. Do the same for the calcinit.


This is a man that understands the metric system. Pay attention


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## jonnynobody (Apr 12, 2021)

Just got this from Peter's customer service. Kinda shocked by the maximum solubility of the calcium nitrate. 11lbs/gallon? Shit. That's a lot!

The Part A 5-12-26 limit of solubility is 2lb/gallons.

The Part B 15-0-0 limit of solubility is 11lb/gallons.


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## Atomizer (Apr 12, 2021)

You should be ok with a 1: 200 jacks stock as long as its not kept below 20C/68F. The calcinit solubility is no problem, 1200g per litre @ 20C.


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## PJ Diaz (Apr 12, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Just got this from Peter's customer service. Kinda shocked by the maximum solubility of the calcium nitrate. 11lbs/gallon? Shit. That's a lot!
> 
> The Part A 5-12-26 limit of solubility is 2lb/gallons.
> 
> The Part B 15-0-0 limit of solubility is 11lb/gallons.


Is "part A" both Jacks and Epsom salts, or just Jacks?


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## jonnynobody (Apr 12, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> Is "part A" both Jacks and Epsom salts, or just Jacks?


Yes part A is jack's 5-12-26. Epsom salts is the only one that still needs to be weighed out. A lot of people omit the epsom salts because jack's 5-12-26 has 6.3%. I add the additional epsom. Plants seem to love it.


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 12, 2021)

Atomizer said:


> Stock solutions should be made very accurately to ensure repeatable results. Weigh 1000g of RO, pour it into a clear container and mark the level. Tip it out, add 100g of jacks to the container and add RO up to your 1L mark. Wait for the chems to dissolve completely and then top back up to your 1L mark. 10ml of this stock solution will contain 1g of jacks. Do the same for the calcinit but add 67g. 10ml of the stock will contain 0.67g of calcinit. For 1 gallon stocks you would add 378.5g of jacks and 253.6g of calcinit. 10ml of each stock will give the same 1g and 0.67g. 70 gallons is about 265L so if you needed to add 1g/L of jacks and .67g/L of calcinit you`d add 2.65L of each stock to the res. Note, the res should be at least 5.3L short of full to account for the stock volume or your ppm calculations will be adrift. If you mark the 70 gal level on the res you can top it up to the mark after adding the stocks. You`ll need 10.6L (2.8 gal) of each stock solution to dose 4x 70 gal reservoirs at the 1g/L, 0.67g/L rate. Depending on the solubility of jacks you could use 1:200 stocks. To figure the ppm you`d add 10ml of the jacks stock to a container and topup to the 1L mark with RO. The resulting ppm will be for 1g/L of jacks .From that result you can calculate the amount you need to add for any ppm. For example, if the result came in a 100ppm you know that 1ml/L will add 10ppm, 0.5ml/L will add 5ppm. Do the same for the calcinit.


i think im just going to end up making it on the spot like old times. 

my only question is this. i got 1000ml cup im going to put all of part A into for a 70 gal rez. will adding epsom for the 70gal in that same cup cause some sort of precipitation? if i can mix 2 cups per rez instead of 3 itd be more convenient.

should i just keep it all seperate. i know A does have magnesium sulfate in it so im thinking it shouldnt cause any issues even tho its going to be hella concentrated in that 1000ml cup with the some tap water


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## PJ Diaz (Apr 12, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Yes part A is jack's 5-12-26. Epsom salts is the only one that still needs to be weighed out. A lot of people omit the epsom salts because jack's 5-12-26 has 6.3%. I add the additional epsom. Plants seem to love it.


When I make a "part a" and "part b", my part a is jacks+epsom, and part b is just calnit. I do concentrations of my part A at less than 1 lb per gal however.


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## Atomizer (Apr 13, 2021)

Jacks has a lot of Mg without the epsom but you can combine it in a 1:100 jacks stock. At 1lb/gal its is close to 1:120 but epsom is very soluble at 1130g/L @ 20c


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## jonnynobody (Apr 13, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> i think im just going to end up making it on the spot like old times.
> 
> my only question is this. i got 1000ml cup im going to put all of part A into for a 70 gal rez. will adding epsom for the 70gal in that same cup cause some sort of precipitation? if i can mix 2 cups per rez instead of 3 itd be more convenient.
> 
> should i just keep it all seperate. i know A does have magnesium sulfate in it so im thinking it shouldnt cause any issues even tho its going to be hella concentrated in that 1000ml cup with the some tap water


Great observation. Yes, jack's 5-12-26 contains magnesium sulfate. There are no chemical conflicts mixing epsom with jack's. I'm really glad you mentioned this. I've always mixed my epsom separate from my jack's. No particular reason why. I'm just simple minded  You saved me a step by making me realize I can just add the epsom with the 5-12-26 and it saves me from having to mix another powder with water before adding to the res. That might seem petty to someone who doesn't have to make a res every day. Anything that saves me time in the garden is as good as gold to me. I would rather shovel shit than make a res. I don't know why. I just hate doing it. And you just saved me some time on the daily. Thanks dude


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## jonnynobody (Apr 13, 2021)

Atomizer said:


> Jacks has a lot of Mg without the epsom but you can combine it in a 1:100 jacks stock. At 1lb/gal its is close to 1:120 but epsom is very soluble at 1130g/L @ 20c


I am horrible with math and measurements. I have to read today on how stock solutions and ratios work so I can actually apply stock solution to my garden without fucking everything to hell. Me and math don't get along. Grams and pounds I'm good with. Ratios and the metric system fuck me all up. I'll see if I can wrap my head around this shit today


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## jonnynobody (Apr 13, 2021)

So I have 2 stock solutions made up on hand. 1 is jack's 5-12-26 at the maximum solubility of 2# to 1 gallon RO water. The other is 580g calcium nitrate to 1 gallon RO water. I'm going to figure out how much liquid stock solution is needed of each that is equivalent to 3.6g/gallon of powder and 2.4g/gallon of powder. Once I have those numbers I can start rocking the stock solution accurately with confidence. I'll be adding epsom to my next stock solution to make res making day as easy as possible. I hate weighing powders


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## Atomizer (Apr 13, 2021)

Easy enough to figure out. 2lbs is 907.185g, when dissolved in RO and topped up so it s exactly a gallon (3.785L) you will have 239.6g of jacks in each litre of stock (907.185g/3.785L) The stock is 1: 239.6
Divide the 239.6g by 1000 and that tells you 1ml of the stock will contain 0.2396g of jacks. 3.6g per gallon is equal to 0.9511g per litre (3.6g/3.785L) so you`ll need to add 3.97ml of the jacks stock per "litre" of res (0.9511g/0.2396g per ml). Technically its minus the 3.97ml stock addition)
For the calcium stock, 580g/3.785L is 153.323g per litre (1:153). 153.323g/1000 gives you 0.1532g per ml. 2.4g per gallon is equal to 0.634g per litre so you`ll need to add 4.139ml per "litre" of res (minus the 4.139ml)
To make life easier i would alter the concentrations of the stocks to simplify things so instead of using 3.97ml/gal and 4.139ml/gal you just add 5ml/gal of each.If you work through the math you`ll soon get the hang of how to do it, using the metric system is a lot easier because you dont need to convert gallons to litres or lbs to grams. If you are using the maximum concentration for the Jacks stock i would recommend a separate stock for the epsom .


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## jonnynobody (Apr 13, 2021)

Atomizer said:


> Easy enough to figure out. 2lbs is 907.185g, when dissolved in RO and topped up so it s exactly a gallon (3.785L) you will have 239.6g of jacks in each litre of stock (907.185g/3.785L) The stock is 1: 239.6
> Divide the 239.6g by 1000 and that tells you 1ml of the stock will contain 0.2396g of jacks. 3.6g per gallon is equal to 0.9511g per litre (3.6g/3.785L) so you`ll need to add 3.97ml of the jacks stock per gallon of res (0.9511g/0.2396g per ml). Technically its per gallon minus the 3.97ml stock addition)
> For the calcium stock, 580g/3.785L is 153.323g per litre (1:153). 153.323g/1000 gives you 0.1532g per ml. 2.4g per gallon is equal to 0.634g per litre so you`ll need to add 4.139ml per gallon of res (minus the 4.139ml)
> To make life easier i would alter the concentrations of the stocks to simplify things so instead of using 3.97ml/gal and 4.139ml/gal you just add 5ml/gal of each.If you work through the math you`ll soon get the hang of how to do it, using the metric system is a lot easier because you dont need to convert gallons to litres or lbs to grams. If you are using the maximum concentration for the Jacks stock i would recommend a separate stock for the epsom .


I can't thank you enough for this. I was getting stressed out earlier just trying to think of the math equation that would get me to the right number 
Thank you also for the recommendation of making a separate stock solution with the epsom salt too! I completely forgot the maximum solubility of jack's in 1 gallon of water is 2#. Nothing more will go into solution. I'd have wound up with a bunch of epsom salt undissolved in the bottom of my stock container. The examples you posted is just awesome and helps me understand how to work with the numbers to make accurate conversions moving forward. Thank you again for helping a simpleton like me with the math. Something tells me many others seeing this thread will benefit too!


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## Atomizer (Apr 13, 2021)

lol, converting gals and litre is confusing, its easy to trip up. I`ve editted the post above to reflect the dose should be ml per Litre not per gallon. If you want ml per gal simply multiply by 3.785.
The calculations were just for the jacks and calcinit, no additional epsom. To make up simplified (1:200) 1 gallon (3.785L) stocks, use 720g of Jacks in one and 480g of calcinit in the other. Dose 5ml of each per "litre" of res.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 13, 2021)

Atomizer said:


> lol, converting gals and litre is confusing, its easy to trip up. I`ve editted the post above to reflect the dose should be ml per Litre not per gallon. If you want ml per gal simply multiply by 3.785.
> The calculations were just for the jacks and calcinit, no additional epsom. To make up simplified (1:200) 1 gallon (3.785L) stocks, use 720g of Jacks in one and 480g of calcinit in the other. Dose 5ml of each per "litre" of res.


Thanks again Atomizer! You rock! 

Today I finally got notification that my 7-15-30 finish formula will arrive on thursday. After looking at the formula compared to 5-12-26 there isn't a great deal of difference. A little more P and K, but not much. A touch less N. I'm scheduled to take down my first plant next friday, so today I stopped feeding the calcium nitrate and instead increased the jack's. I did 5g jack's and 1.1g epsom salts per gallon which is the same ratio Peters recommends for the 7-15-30 finish formula. Since the ingredients are darn near identical it should work great until my finish formula arrives on thursday. I only do a 3 day flush so that will give me 5 days or so on the finish formula. I can only take down 1 plant per day because the wife and I trim by hand, so it will take us 9 days to harvest beginning to end. They'll all get the 7-15-30 @ the recommended 5g/gallon along with 1.1g/gallon epsom salt with 3 days of plain water prior to their chop day. This is the first time I've omitted the calcium nitrate in the final 1-2 weeks of flower. I'm looking forward to seeing how things improve versus keeping calcium nitrate through to the end like I did on my last run with blue dream. I'll snap some flower room pics tomorrow. The buds are just ridiculous


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 14, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Thanks again Atomizer! You rock!
> 
> Today I finally got notification that my 7-15-30 finish formula will arrive on thursday. After looking at the formula compared to 5-12-26 there isn't a great deal of difference. A little more P and K, but not much. A touch less N. I'm scheduled to take down my first plant next friday, so today I stopped feeding the calcium nitrate and instead increased the jack's. I did 5g jack's and 1.1g epsom salts per gallon which is the same ratio Peters recommends for the 7-15-30 finish formula. Since the ingredients are darn near identical it should work great until my finish formula arrives on thursday. I only do a 3 day flush so that will give me 5 days or so on the finish formula. I can only take down 1 plant per day because the wife and I trim by hand, so it will take us 9 days to harvest beginning to end. They'll all get the 7-15-30 @ the recommended 5g/gallon along with 1.1g/gallon epsom salt with 3 days of plain water prior to their chop day. This is the first time I've omitted the calcium nitrate in the final 1-2 weeks of flower. I'm looking forward to seeing how things improve versus keeping calcium nitrate through to the end like I did on my last run with blue dream. I'll snap some flower room pics tomorrow. The buds are just ridiculous


well thats good to know that you can pretty much mimic the 7-15-30 formula. cuts out an extra bag and saves some money in the process.

5g of Jacks + 1.1g of Epsom roughly = 7-15-30?

@TintEastwood can you doublecheck the maths on it?

i think thats what ill do then if i like what i see from the Finish formula when it comes in a week or two.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 14, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> well thats good to know that you can pretty much mimic the 7-15-30 formula. cuts out an extra bag and saves some money in the process.
> 
> 5g of Jacks + 1.1g of Epsom roughly = 7-15-30?
> 
> ...


5-12-26 is close in NPK ratios to 7-15-30. Epsom salt isn't represented in the NPK ratio. You definitely do not need to waste any cheddar on the finish formula. It's not necessary. I'm just giving it a shot because I wanted to try it. Just like I might try their 1 part RO formula down the road. I like to tinker around. By no means do you need anything other than jack's 5-12-26, calcium nitrate, and epsom salt to grow thick resinous flowers.


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 14, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> 5-12-26 is close in NPK ratios to 7-15-30. Epsom salt isn't represented in the NPK ratio. You definitely do not need to waste any cheddar on the finish formula. It's not necessary. I'm just giving it a shot because I wanted to try it. Just like I might try their 1 part RO formula down the road. I like to tinker around. By no means do you need anything other than jack's 5-12-26, calcium nitrate, and epsom salt to grow thick resinous flowers.


ya but the finish has a bunch of extra sulfur and magnesium so im wondering if that amt of epsom per gal is approximately the same. cause sulfur is the main nutrient responsible for the resin and the smell from what ive read.

this might happen to u if u use the Ro formula. im running it and it gives nice flower but it leaves blue dye stains everywhere where theres airflow. i talked to them and they said its normal. got some blue dye stains on my oscillating fans too. 

thats why im just goong to go back to the 321. no nasty stains from blue dye


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## jcdws602 (Apr 14, 2021)

I dont get any blue stains in or on my reservoirs from the ro version myself? I only use the ro version in veg. That's weird though...blue die on your fan too?


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 14, 2021)

jcdws602 said:


> I dont get any blue stains in or on my reservoirs from the ro version myself? I only use the ro version in veg. That's weird though...blue die on your fan too?


they said cause its normal if you mix large batches. nothing to worry about. i got 70gal reservoirs

i just rather not change carbon filters and dehumi filters and scrub my fans and reservoirs down every run.

this is what it is now. gonna finish this run up with this ro version nute and call it a day. worked well though. just some phosphorus deficencies early flip which im hoping jacks 321 will fix next run.


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## Atomizer (Apr 15, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> 5-12-26 is close in NPK ratios to 7-15-30. Epsom salt isn't represented in the NPK ratio. You definitely do not need to waste any cheddar on the finish formula. It's not necessary. I'm just giving it a shot because I wanted to try it. Just like I might try their 1 part RO formula down the road. I like to tinker around. By no means do you need anything other than jack's 5-12-26, calcium nitrate, and epsom salt to grow thick resinous flowers.


I wouldnt recommend using the 5-12-26 as a sub for the 7-15-30. The 7-15-30 uses ammonium sulphate to provide a big chunk of the N and the sulphur boost.. You could amend the 5-12-26 with additional ammonium sulphate but it will be 30% light on P and K compared to the 7-15-30. The main problem is the Mg, its 3x higher than the 7-15-30 even without the additional 1.1g of epsom.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 15, 2021)

Atomizer said:


> I wouldnt recommend using the 5-12-26 as a sub for the 7-15-30. The 7-15-30 uses ammonium sulphate to provide a big chunk of the N and the sulphur boost.. You could amend the 5-12-26 with additional ammonium sulphate but it will be 30% light on P and K compared to the 7-15-30. The main problem is the Mg, its 3x higher than the 7-15-30 even without the additional 1.1g of epsom.


Thank you for the great info! My order of 7-15-30 is scheduled to arrive today. I'm mixing a res as soon as it hits my door step! Feel like a kid waiting for santa to show up


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## jonnynobody (Apr 15, 2021)

My 7-15-30 finish formula arrived this morning. I grabbed 2 homer buckets with gasket lined lids to store the new formula in. The extra bucket is to store my calcium nitrate stock in. Eventually I'll grab another for the epsom salt. I didn't even think about it when I was at the store.

This formula is very different from the 5-12-26. The granules of raw elements look nothing like the 5-12-26 raw elements. I took some photos to articulate just how remarkably different this stuff is from the 5-12-26. It's also blue rather than light brown:


I added 150g to a 30 gallon res of RO along with 33g epsom salt. The res is still filling so I won't know the ppm until later today. The first water in will happen this evening for my twice a day drinkers in the flower room. Tomorrow the whole flower room will be watered in with 7-15-30. Then 3 days prior to each plant's scheduled chop date I will give plain water only like GreenGene recommends. I know Peters recommends a 1 week flush, but I feel that's excessive and unnecessary which is why I'm sticking with 3 days. I didn't flush the last blue dream I just harvested at all. It's phenomenal. However, to see if there is any observable improvement I will conduct a 3 day flush cycle of plain RO water. I really also hate the term flush. You flush a toilet not plants. Moving forward I'm going to refer to it what it actually is: leeching. Soil gardeners do the same thing. As the plant is winding down it's life cycle outdoor gardeners aren't dumping buckets of bat guano on their soil. That would be stupid, right? They stop feeding all fertilizer inputs about a week prior to harvest, because the plant no longer needs it in the ripening phase just before harvest. They don't call it flushing. It's simply a discontinuation of fertilizer which allows the plant to ripen and use up any available nutrients that have been stored. If you have over fed your plant for 10 weeks you can flush all of the great lakes through your plant and none of it will "wash out" the elements you've ever fed the plant over the course of it's lifecycle. Those elements are locked into the plant's tissue. It doesn't just wash away. That would be as silly as someone telling a fat person to drink a bunch of water every day to flush your fat cells away. Sounds stupid, right? Because it is, and the idea of flushing elements out of a plant's tissue is no more intelligent an argument to make 

With that I will never use the term flush again moving forward. It's just not the proper terminology and only serves to exacerbate poor logic in regards to how plants work. I will leech my plants with RO water for 3 days prior to harvest 


You can make fun of my blender. I don't mind. Jonny doesn't shake or stir. Just ain't my thang


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 15, 2021)

dang its that blue dye again in the finish. my worst enemy. 

what are those little balls.... i always thought theyre calcium nitrate


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## Failmore (Apr 15, 2021)

Finish formula for me gave me about the same ec used at the same %. I go 50% recommend and get around 1.25 ec including my .33 tap water. 

Usually my ph goes up a lil after a bucket change while everything settled in for the week. 

It dropped this time...but that may have been me not checking stuff properly. 

Ill have to verify with a 2nd res change but I may be done before I get there.


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## Failmore (Apr 15, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> dang its that blue dye again in the finish. my worst enemy.
> 
> what are those little balls.... i always thought theyre calcium nitrate


The balls are the calnit. That is what the bag of calnit looks like


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## jonnynobody (Apr 15, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> dang its that blue dye again in the finish. my worst enemy.
> 
> what are those little balls.... i always thought theyre calcium nitrate


That I'm not sure of. I'll have to ask Peters about that. You're right though. They look just like calcium nitrate granules. First thing I thought when I saw them 

Yes. That was the second thing I thought when I opened the bag. Dude on RIU is not gonna be happy about this blue dye


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## jonnynobody (Apr 15, 2021)

Failmore said:


> The balls are the calnit. That is what the bag of calnit looks like


Negative. Jack's 7-15-30 contains 0% calcium nitrate.


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## Failmore (Apr 15, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Negative. Jack's 7-15-30 contains 0% calcium nitrate.


Well then. They sure look like it.


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## Atomizer (Apr 15, 2021)

Could be potassium nitrate, thats avialabe prilled


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## jonnynobody (Apr 16, 2021)

Failmore said:


> Well then. They sure look like it.


You're right. They look exactly the same. The blue dye is going to take some getting used to. It is very blue like toilet water biscuit blue. I have the urge to take a piss every time I see the reservoir


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## TintEastwood (Apr 16, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> well thats good to know that you can pretty much mimic the 7-15-30 formula. cuts out an extra bag and saves some money in the process.
> 
> 5g of Jacks + 1.1g of Epsom roughly = 7-15-30?
> 
> ...


Not a huge difference. Note, Jacks is virtually all Nitrate, the "finish" N is split between Nitrate and Ammonical. Not sure what the Ammonical does.
Here's a rough comparison I twerked up. (Just the sack mix, no epsom added.)


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## Atomizer (Apr 16, 2021)

My guess is they used ammonium sulphate to increase S, the NH4 was more a consequence of the choice of chemical than an elemental target.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 16, 2021)

Atomizer said:


> My guess is they used ammonium sulphate to increase S, the NH4 was more a consequence of the choice of chemical than an elemental target.


One big thing I noticed is the increased amount of PH up I have to add with the 7-15-30 versus the 5-12-26. I normally add 2ML of highly concentrated PH UP to a 32 gallon reservoir to bring the PH to 5.8. It took 6ML with 7-15-30. I was kinda blown away. Very acidic stuff. Hopefully all that sulfur amounts to lots of stank and frost


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## jonnynobody (Apr 26, 2021)

Just jack'n it fellas. Week 9 of flower running the 7-15-30 finish formula st 750ppm with epsom:


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## The Dankstar (Apr 26, 2021)

Wow looks delicious. Thanks for sharing all your info. I'm just making a RDWC setup myself right now. I have been reading up on Jacks today. I want to jack it also I think. I have no hydro experience. First question. I have 100g setup in the mix. 4 x20g Tote + Res. So if I weigh out the vege solution to the 100g to (X) gram ratio they have on the feeding schedule, can I add that whole weight to my res with RO water in the system already? Or should I get 100G holding tank to mix everything then transfer all of the water to my res? Also after I drain the system how long before I have to have water running in it again for the roots?


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## jonnynobody (Apr 26, 2021)

The Dankstar said:


> Wow looks delicious. Thanks for sharing all your info. I'm just making a RDWC setup myself right now. I have been reading up on Jacks today. I want to jack it also I think. I have no hydro experience. First question. I have 100g setup in the mix. 4 x20g Tote + Res. So if I weigh out the vege solution to the 100g to (X) gram ratio they have on the feeding schedule, can I add that whole weight to my res with RO water in the system already? Or should I get 100G holding tank to mix everything then transfer all of the water to my res? Also after I drain the system how long before I have to have water running in it again for the roots?


Thanks man. It's a lot of work but I really enjoy gardening and sharing tips with other growers. It would be a good idea to mix your jack's, epsom, and calcium nitrate in a holding reservoir to ensure everything is mixed properly. You can also verify PPM is in your desired range and PH is properly adjusted to your liking and then safely transfer it into your system once all your parameters are optimal.

When you drain your system the plants will be fine for 20 or 30 minutes while you do your thing. I routinely leave my 35 site cloner lid with clones hanging in the air with each end propped up on a 5 gallon bucket to keep the roots off the floor while I clean and sanitize the clone tote before refilling with fresh solution. As long as you're efficient and not leaving them dry for 45 minutes-an hour you'll be aye okay.


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## The Dankstar (Apr 26, 2021)

Much love, may I ask. What are you using for root rot prevention ? I have read hydro guard? And what using to sanitize hydrogen peroxide? I have read to leave the nutes in the res for 2 weeks and then replace. What is your recommendation?


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## newbplantgrower420 (Apr 26, 2021)

hey jonny when you mix the 7-15-30 is it blue dye in the rez because i msgd jacks nutrients via email and they said the 10-30-20 is blue dye but the 7-15-30 isnt blue dye.

i finished up my RO formula and bought the 321 cause its going to be clear water so i dont want to have all my filters and fans getting blue again if i use 7-15-30. its just too damn messy.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 27, 2021)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> hey jonny when you mix the 7-15-30 is it blue dye in the rez because i msgd jacks nutrients via email and they said the 10-30-20 is blue dye but the 7-15-30 isnt blue dye.
> 
> i finished up my RO formula and bought the 321 cause its going to be clear water so i dont want to have all my filters and fans getting blue again if i use 7-15-30. its just too damn messy.


My 7-15-30 has blue dye. I received my bag about 2 weeks ago from jacksnutrients.com. The 5-12-26 is a light brown shade when mixed with water.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 27, 2021)

The Dankstar said:


> Much love, may I ask. What are you using for root rot prevention ? I have read hydro guard? And what using to sanitize hydrogen peroxide? I have read to leave the nutes in the res for 2 weeks and then replace. What is your recommendation?


I keep Southern Ag's biological friendly fungicide on hand as well as 34% h202, but I presently do not add either to my reservoir. BFF can be applied at 1ML/10 gallons. It's the same ingredient as hydrogaurd, but more concentrated. 34% h202 can be applied at 5ML/gallon if there is a root rot issue to resolve. h202 is the heavy artillery. Kinda pricey to add to the res on the regular, but it can be done. BFF is very cost effective to add every res fill. Also, many people use pool shock (aka calcium hypochlorite) for sterility. 24g/to 1 gallon RO water. Then add 1ML/gallon of shock solution to your res. Cheap and effective.

I would recommend swapping reservoirs every 7-10 days.


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## The Dankstar (Apr 27, 2021)

I think I will try the BFF with each res until it gets closer to flower. You have been most helpful. Good luck on future grows.


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## .Smoke (Apr 28, 2021)

So how's the Jack's doing now @jonnynobody ?

I've had to raise my EC to 2.2 recently. Had a few plants late in veg (7+ weeks) that started showing Calcium deficiencies @ 1.8 and I'm still battling P/K/Mg deficiencies starting a week after flip.
I figured I'd try running @ their recommended EC now that I'm getting my leds and heat figured out. Hopefully that will solve the problems.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 28, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> So how's the Jack's doing now @jonnynobody ?
> 
> I've had to raise my EC to 2.2 recently. Had a few plants late in veg (7+ weeks) that started showing Calcium deficiencies @ 1.8 and I'm still battling P/K/Mg deficiencies starting a week after flip.
> I figured I'd try running @ their recommended EC now that I'm getting my leds and heat figured out. Hopefully that will solve the problems.


I'm glad you asked. It's going great so far! Maui waui is always the first to finish and the buds clipped on the first day of trimming are dry enough to sample. All I can say is wow! I've grown mw for over 2 years now and it's never been this effing potent or smooth smoking. I rolled up a jibber and burned down with my neighbor who lives behind me. He did not care for the last 2 cycles of maui. Halfway through the joint he straight tells me he can't hardly believe it's the same strain. I would agree. It's different as if the genetics reached their full intended potential. I use to tell people maui waui is a good day time smoke. That shit is out the window this cycle. It puts me down. Hard. Bowl burns to a clean fluffy gray ash. I can hear the sizzle of the resin as the bowl burns down. Turn it over. Tap it in my hand. Whole ash comes right out leaving the bowl ready for a clean wipe with toilet paper. My last maui with GH maxi burned to a hard black ash that had to be dug out with a toothpick. I actually use to keep a mechanics poker on my tray because that's just how it was. Jack's grown maui burns just like my old school soil grown buds did. Smooth to the last hit. No nasty yuck taste as the bowl burns like last cycle. 

I think the difference is truly the 321 system and while I think the 7-15-30 is a great way to finish the plants it's not something I can say will make a huge difference because I haven't done a controlled test yet. I'll continue using it because jack's recommends it, and I tend to trust their advice at this point. It isn't as if it's an expensive product or anything like that, so I pulled the trigger and am happy to incorporate it into my flower routine. I have been doing a 3 day plain RO water leech prior to harvest day on all of the plants. I feel 3 days is sufficient enough. I use to discontinue fertilizer input 7 days prior to harvest in soil, so I figured halve that amount in hydro since there's no soil buffer between the roots and the elements. The maui results confirmed for me that 3 days is plenty. I'm very excited to see how jager, ghost train, critical mass, and girl scout cookies turns out from a smoke report perspective. They all are frostier with more intense aromas. If the quality improves on those strains the same way maui did this is going to be monumental for me. I've been chasing this soil quality in hydro for over 10 years. Thanks to Jack's I finally found my unicorn


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## jonnynobody (Apr 28, 2021)

By the way I no longer use epsom salt in veg. It caused tip burn which went away completely with the omission of epsom from the 321 system. Just 5-12-26 @4g/gallon and calcium nitrate at 2.4g/gallon. 700-750ppm. PH to 5.8. Rock out 

Of course I will add the epsom in flower. Need that sulfur for fat stinky buds. It's just unnecessary added mag sulfate in veg the plants don't need.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 28, 2021)

I keep forgetting shit. Sorry. Neighbor who loves to go to the legal dispensaries insisted on giving me a pack of gummies. Ate all of 'em in one shot. 100mg pack. That was 7:30 last night. I'm still fucked right this second today. Had a little more kick than I expected. I think their dosage label was incorrect. That or I'm just a fucking light weight that can't hold his gummies 

I also found that I had to reduce my 110w boards by 25% in one of my 5x5 nurseries due to light burn. Within 2 days after decreasing the intensity as well as omitting the epsom salt not only did the burned foliage stop lush new growth started popping out everywhere in the canopy. I'll snap a pic later if I think about it. LED light burn often looks like a variety of deficiencies. I'm a little concerned about how your plants will respond to such a high EC. Are you certain it isn't light burn from the qb's? That's a big new change for you. Not only have you switched to a new fertilizer you've switched to a completely new lighting system that is a lot different than those HID's, so I just wanted to throw that out there regarding the light being a possible source of your problems. I literally had to reduce power on two 110w qb's by 25%. What the heck is that tent operating at now? 175w in a 5x5? And the plant looks amazing. Fuck it. I'm snapping a pic. I'll be back


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## jonnynobody (Apr 28, 2021)

Right around 160-170w of qb's. Very low power at 725ppm last water in. And look at the results on critical mass:


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## jonnynobody (Apr 28, 2021)

Lay down some pipe and let the intensity rain down once you're in flower on a 12/12 cycle, but LED's do not need to be intense in veg. It does not accelerate growth. It only causes problems.


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## Arkos (Apr 29, 2021)

Sorry for hijacking the thread...
Fucking Europe, peters professional 5-11-26 is only available in the U.s.

My Mega crop 2 part is done and due to Brexit I can't buy more, I have weeks left of flowering, what can I do ? 

I can get Universol basis 4-19-35 or peters combi sol 6-18-36, thoughts anyone ?


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## jonnynobody (Apr 29, 2021)

Arkos said:


> Sorry for hijacking the thread...
> Fucking Europe, peters professional 5-11-26 is only available in the U.s.
> 
> My Mega crop 2 part is done and due to Brexit I can't buy more, I have weeks left of flowering, what can I do ?
> ...


Man I'm sorry to hear about that. No need for apologies. We're all here to help one another. The 6-18-36 sounds fairly close to the 5-12-26 ratios. If that is available to you I would check it out. Also, you could switch to the general hydroponics flora series. It's not as cheap as mega crop or jack's, but it will get you to harvest day without a problem and you should be very happy with your results.


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## Arkos (Apr 29, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Also, you could switch to the general hydroponics flora series. It's not as cheap as mega crop or jack's, but it will get you to harvest day without a problem and you should be very happy with your results.


Thanks for the input bro, I did actually order Maxi bloom last night to get me through this crop but I'm looking to switch over to something like Jack's so I can scale up as needed 

I used to use Floranova with excellent results.

Lol, had some advanced noobients laying around plants are starting to look fucked up after 2-3 feeds with that shit...


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## .Smoke (Apr 29, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Lay down some pipe and let the intensity rain down once you're in flower on a 12/12 cycle, but LED's do not need to be intense in veg. It does not accelerate growth. It only causes problems.


I've dropped down to a 100w Qboard for veg. Definitely don't need anything more atm after moving 2 into flower.

Everything that didn't already have issues is looking great. Definitely no light burn @ 16"-20" 100% power.


I upped EC from 1.8 to 2.1 about 3 days ago. Keeping an eye out for burns.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 29, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> I've dropped down to a 100w Qboard for veg. Definitely don't need anything more atm after moving 2 into flower.
> View attachment 4890205
> Everything that didn't already have issues is looking great. Definitely no light burn @ 16"-20" 100% power.
> View attachment 4890208
> ...


Your results speak for themselves. I'm very impressed by the lushness of your canopy. There's not a single sign of unhappiness going on in there. Beautiful work sir.


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## gkay723 (Apr 29, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Right around 160-170w of qb's. Very low power at 725ppm last water in. And look at the results on critical mass:
> 
> View attachment 4889656View attachment 4889657View attachment 4889658View attachment 4889660


How long does it take to veg a monster like that? And what do you do training wise?


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## jonnynobody (Apr 29, 2021)

gkay723 said:


> How long does it take to veg a monster like that? And what do you do training wise?


That plant got that big due to a mistake. I clipped too many clones and had no room for her in the flower room last cycle. In a nutshell she's vegged for about 16 weeks now. I usually veg for 8-9. Topping is required as the plant reaches for the ceiling to get her to bush out and stop vertical growth. I like garden stakes for tying off and pulling the branches apart. I have to be careful though, because it has to fit through the flower room door for the 12/12 cycle. It's going to be very tight.


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## jonnynobody (Apr 30, 2021)

Home stretch ladies and gentlemen. Trimming 12 hours/day at this point. Back is effing killing me. I need to find one of those auto trimming strains I keep hearing about. The leaves just fall off on their own. Really cool stuff. I can dream can't I?  

2 critical mass's, 2 blue dreams, and some fragments of small pop corn nugs off jager. The flowers on critical mass are definitely the heaviest of the bunch. Jager was a close second. Every plant has been an absolute bitch to trim because of the resin production. I keep a shot glass full of 93% iso on the trim table and dip/wipe after every cola. I've had a chance to sample the ghost train which is the same cut I grew last cycle. It's not only smooth, but much more potent this cycle running jack's. No harshness that makes you hack your lungs out like last time. And it was so dam strong I took my gloves off at the trim table, stood up, and I had no idea why. I had to sit back down and pull my shit together because I was that effing stoned. I just wasn't expecting it. I'm very much looking forward to sampling the critical mass and jager when it's ready. So far it seems every strain is now living up to it's full genetic potential running jack's. I could not be more satisfied. Well, I guess I could. If this shit trimmed itself 

CM gets chopped next then blue dreams. I might take the rest of jager for hash. I'm tired of trimming small buds. Here are the pics of what's left at day 69 of flower:



Yeah, I moved the tomato plants in there. Dam nursery was too tight and it's too cold outside still to put them in the garden:


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## kingjackpot23 (May 9, 2021)

Autofire said:


> GH is in bed with Monsato. Nobody should run that shit. They don't give f about the customer or the plant, are a mega corp in it purely for profit. Plenty of better stuff to choose from.
> 
> There's a really good YouTube vid where a professor dude gives a lesson on how to grow. He reckons the best fert is a basic 20-20-20 from seedling to harvest, and he was using jacks, growing in Coco with 50% vermiculite for silica.
> 
> Doesn't mean I listened. I still run expensive premium cannabis specific stuff because I like the company. Shit works pretty dam good too.


I think you're talking about Busby. He uses Peat


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## jonnynobody (May 12, 2021)

So something interesting has happened with only 1 of 5 strains I ran last cycle. I'm still trying to crunch the data to figure out what happened. I'm fairly certain I'll be experimenting with the next flower cycle. What happened? Jager, maui waui, ghost train, and critical mass all turned out fantastic. Great flavor, clean gray ash burn, and outstanding potency. Blue dream was a massive yield with sticky fragrant rock hard buds. It's not smooth. The flavor is nothing like the aroma and is undesirable in my opinion. It does not taste good. It doesn't taste like dispensary pot, but with the other 4 strains turning out so remarkably tasty I'm a little baffled as to what occurred with blue dream that caused an unexpected variance. I have a couple of theories. I'm not sure if I will continue to use or recommend the jack's 7-15-30 finish formula. I have to experiment before I make a decision. The 2 blue dreams are the only 2 plants that received 2 weeks of the 7-15-30 + a 7 day plain water irrigation. They are the worst tasting plants of the garden, and they also happen to be the only plants that received the 7-15-30 for a full 14 days. The others received approximately 7 days. I strongly suspect running the 7-15-30 for longer than 7 days produced an undesirable flavor in my 2 blue dreams. I provided only a 3 day plain water irrigation on my other plants. I do not feel an extra 4 days of plain water irrigation would cause this. I'm zeroing in on the 7-15-30. The blue dream I harvested about a month ago received no 7-15-30. Only the jack's 3-2-1. It had a fruity enjoyable flavor. It still wasn't amazing, but it was acceptable with a nice fruity finish. The 2 blue dreams I harvested recently with the 7-15-30 applied for 14 days does not taste anything like the blue dream I harvested a month ago.


So, I'm running an experiment next cycle. What will I do? I'm only going to run the 3-2-1 on half the garden all the way up until the 3 day plain water irrigation. The other half of the garden will get the 7-15-30 for only 7 days followed by plain water irrigation for 3 days. I think running it for 14 days caused negative results. On the package they clearly state 1-2 weeks. Knowing all fertilizer manufacturer's suggest using too much I should have stuck with the lower end recommendation of 1 week. Live and learn. It's really a let down because the buds are stupid potent. I can't hardly smoke the stuff during the day because I won't get anything done. The flavor just isn't where I want it, so I'm going to run this experiment and get to the bottom of this problem. Also, the blue dream does not burn to as clean of an ash as the other strains. I really feel the 7-15-30 may be not only unnecessary, but may also produce undesirable flavors. It'll be 3 months before I have an answer to this issue. I'll post my results when it's done.


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## jcdws602 (May 13, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> So something interesting has happened with only 1 of 5 strains I ran last cycle. I'm still trying to crunch the data to figure out what happened. I'm fairly certain I'll be experimenting with the next flower cycle. What happened? Jager, maui waui, ghost train, and critical mass all turned out fantastic. Great flavor, clean gray ash burn, and outstanding potency. Blue dream was a massive yield with sticky fragrant rock hard buds. It's not smooth. The flavor is nothing like the aroma and is undesirable in my opinion. It does not taste good. It doesn't taste like dispensary pot, but with the other 4 strains turning out so remarkably tasty I'm a little baffled as to what occurred with blue dream that caused an unexpected variance. I have a couple of theories. I'm not sure if I will continue to use or recommend the jack's 7-15-30 finish formula. I have to experiment before I make a decision. The 2 blue dreams are the only 2 plants that received 2 weeks of the 7-15-30 + a 7 day plain water irrigation. They are the worst tasting plants of the garden, and they also happen to be the only plants that received the 7-15-30 for a full 14 days. The others received approximately 7 days. I strongly suspect running the 7-15-30 for longer than 7 days produced an undesirable flavor in my 2 blue dreams. I provided only a 3 day plain water irrigation on my other plants. I do not feel an extra 4 days of plain water irrigation would cause this. I'm zeroing in on the 7-15-30. The blue dream I harvested about a month ago received no 7-15-30. Only the jack's 3-2-1. It had a fruity enjoyable flavor. It still wasn't amazing, but it was acceptable with a nice fruity finish. The 2 blue dreams I harvested recently with the 7-15-30 applied for 14 days does not taste anything like the blue dream I harvested a month ago.
> 
> 
> So, I'm running an experiment next cycle. What will I do? I'm only going to run the 3-2-1 on half the garden all the way up until the 3 day plain water irrigation. The other half of the garden will get the 7-15-30 for only 7 days followed by plain water irrigation for 3 days. I think running it for 14 days caused negative results. On the package they clearly state 1-2 weeks. Knowing all fertilizer manufacturer's suggest using too much I should have stuck with the lower end recommendation of 1 week. Live and learn. It's really a let down because the buds are stupid potent. I can't hardly smoke the stuff during the day because I won't get anything done. The flavor just isn't where I want it, so I'm going to run this experiment and get to the bottom of this problem. Also, the blue dream does not burn to as clean of an ash as the other strains. I really feel the 7-15-30 may be not only unnecessary, but may also produce undesirable flavors. It'll be 3 months before I have an answer to this issue. I'll post my results when it's done.


Was there any increase in yield or difference in trichome production ? Any other noticeable difference other than the unfavorable taste?


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## jonnynobody (May 13, 2021)

jcdws602 said:


> Was there any increase in yield or difference in trichome production ? Any other noticeable difference other than the unfavorable taste?


Without doing a controlled test it's really hard to accurately answer that question. I will say all plants received the 7-15-30. The only variance was how long each plant received it ranging from 6-14 days and how long each plant had plain water irrigation ranging from 4 days to 7 days. The only real measurement I can take is GPW. I'll compare the ratio from this harvest and the last and that should give me a rough shot estimate as to whether or not the finish formula produced any extra weight. 

All strains are off the charts potent compared to last cycle. My only gripe is BD just missed the mark on that fruity flavor I was shooting for. I'll try 7 days of 7-15-30 on the next cycle on one bd and no 7-15-30 on another. I'll see if there is any flavor variance. Should be interesting to see how things shake out. 

Everything except blue dream tastes phenomenal. Ghost train tasted like trash last cycle and it was harsh. This time it's flavorful and more potent. It's actually my favorite strain to smoke this time. That was completely unexpected. Jager doesn't even taste like the same strain I grew last cycle. It's just amazing. 

Now I will say some strains genetically just don't have the muster to grow tasty flowers that please the pallet. This particular line of bd seeds might just be that type of strain. I'm doing a solid cure on it all for a good 30 days to see if stewing in it's own delicous aroma helps improve the flavor. The aroma is really the tits. I'm really hoping a long cure infuses that aroma as a flavor. I'll report back in a month how it goes.


----------



## Sofa King Smoooth (May 13, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Without doing a controlled test it's really hard to accurately answer that question. I will say all plants received the 7-15-30. The only variance was how long each plant received it ranging from 6-14 days and how long each plant had plain water irrigation ranging from 4 days to 7 days. The only real measurement I can take is GPW. I'll compare the ratio from this harvest and the last and that should give me a rough shot estimate as to whether or not the finish formula produced any extra weight.
> 
> All strains are off the charts potent compared to last cycle. My only gripe is BD just missed the mark on that fruity flavor I was shooting for. I'll try 7 days of 7-15-30 on the next cycle on one bd and no 7-15-30 on another. I'll see if there is any flavor variance. Should be interesting to see how things shake out.
> 
> ...


Curious what you use for pH adjustments?


----------



## jonnynobody (May 13, 2021)

Sofa King Smoooth said:


> Curious what you use for pH adjustments?


Milwaukee MW102





Amazon.com: Milwaukee Instruments MW102 PH and Temperature Meter : Industrial & Scientific


Buy Milwaukee Instruments MW102 PH and Temperature Meter: Multiparameter Meters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





I also use a blue lab PH meter with remote probe via BNC connector. They don't sell them anymore though since they came out with the leap probe. Now they want you to spend an arm and a leg for their latest and greatest. Those probes are really nice, but absolutely not worth what they're asking.

Just found this blue lab combo meter on clearance @ $140 on amazon:


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003PD2N8Q/ref=twister_B084P72L4F?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1



That's cheaper than I paid for the PH meter only. I'd snag that in a heart beat if I was in the market. I prefer Neptune brand PH probes. They are expensive @ $75/each, but the lightning fast readings and high accuracy are worth the extra money.


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## Sofa King Smoooth (May 13, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Milwaukee MW102
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you. Very good info, I was asking about the actual chemical or product you use for pH adjustment of the nutrient solution. 

My bad I wasnt clear but the info is a plus.


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## jonnynobody (May 14, 2021)

Sofa King Smoooth said:


> Thank you. Very good info, I was asking about the actual chemical or product you use for pH adjustment of the nutrient solution.
> 
> My bad I wasnt clear but the info is a plus.


Nothing fancy sir. Just standard issue PH up and PH down. I prefer the Cyco brand products because they're highly concentrated and you get more value for your money than most others. GH's ph up and down is heavily watered down. I have to use 10x the amount of PH up with GH's watered down bullshit versus Cyco's ph up. 3ML to a 32 gallon reservoir gets the job done with Cyco ph up. GH? Just squirt and squirt. Eventually you'll get it where you want it 

Getting back to the jack's and the poor flavor I experienced with my blue dream last harvest. It was not the jack's finish formula that caused the problem. It was dried too dam fast. The BD buds were the most dense and large of all my plants. That means they had a great deal more off gassing of chlorophyll than the smaller flowers from my other strains and humidity took such a huge dive they dried in 3-4 days. Usually it takes 6 or 7. As a result I think a lot of chlorophyll was locked in that did not have an opportunity to off gas. I recently just trashed boveda packs in another thread just a few days ago. I wound up ordering a 320 pack for $25 to see if I can save my blue dream's flavor. The reason I think this will be successful is because I just took a crispy dry bud of bd out of my storage container yesterday and popped it into a glass container with a paper towel soaked in lime juice and a few slices of banana separated by a piece of plastic. I came back 2 hours later. The bud absorbed so much moisture I had to use a grinder to break it up. And it was smooth. The harshness smoothed out. It was actually enjoyable to smoke. Still not smooth on the level of my other strains, but light years better than it tasted prior to re hydrating.

To add more evidence that the 7-15-30 did not cause this flavor problem I just smoked some small flowers that weren't quite dry yet. Certainly not crispy and the stems did not snap. It was basically the perfect consistency. And it was very smooth. My failure I believe was drying too fast and had nothing to do with the jack's. Smoking chlorophyll is not smooth. So I'll be placing all of the bd in a 5 gallon bucket with the 320 pack and a gasket sealed air tight lid on monday when it arrives. I'm hoping within 7 days it will have amply re hydrated the over dried flowers to a more appropriate and desirable consistency.

What caused this over drying shit is that we had a dramatic shift in weather patterns abruptly just as the bd went onto the net. It went from cool and humid (perfect for slow drying) to below 32 degrees and no humidity. Forced air heat kicking on dropping it even further. I saw 30-35% for days and the dehumidifiers just sat idle. This is a perfect example of how important drying is. Moving forward I will be purchasing a heavy duty humidifier to maintain the ideal drying humidity. It's a completely preventable problem and easily solved.

What lesson can be learned from this? Dry yo shit properly holmes  If stems snap you've already dried too much. You will not achieve a cure of any kind. I'll be jarring just as the exterior of the flowers are slightly crispy and stems feel close to snapping. That's the perfect condition for curing and sweating the flowers. Snapping stems means your shit has dried to a crisp and then you're in my situation buying overpriced boveda packs. $25 for this dam thing. If it does not work to my satisfaction it will be returned to amazon as defective. I hate products that don't work as advertised, but everyone seems to really love the bovedas that find themselves in my situation. I know fresh leaves can be added to re hydrate but I do not have any available. My vegging plants just recently had pesticide applied so I cannot use those.

I'll report back in 10 days or so how the boveda pack worked on the bd.


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## jonnynobody (May 14, 2021)

So waiting on my 320 boveda until monday I thought I'd try something else to experiment with re hydrating my buds in a different way using a slice of bread and banana slices placed in a bowl. Here's how I did it. Took about 2 hours for moisture to accumulate as droplets on the lid inside the refrigerator. Pulled the bud out and it was perfectly hydrated. I'll do 2 hours on this one and hopefully I'll repeat the same success as yesterday


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## Lenin1917 (May 16, 2021)

I run masterblend rn with pretty good results so far, but I'll be switching to jacks next time because they're more dialed in for flower than masterblend (took some trial and error to get right) dry nutes overall are just better than the water down stuff. And they do a better job keeping the res clean.


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## jonnynobody (Jun 9, 2021)

Lenin1917 said:


> I run masterblend rn with pretty good results so far, but I'll be switching to jacks next time because they're more dialed in for flower than masterblend (took some trial and error to get right) dry nutes overall are just better than the water down stuff. And they do a better job keeping the res clean.


12 years ago when I was a young little whipper snapper the RIU old timers of that era kept telling me and everyone else to use jack's. Me and most of those other people desperately wanted to believe that growing dope was more complicated than it really is. If a nutrient lineup didn't have 10 different bottles I was convinced it had to be garbage. If only I could time travel and tell myself what I know now I would have saved myself years of frustration. What I'm trying to say is when an old timer tells you what's what about something you may want to actually listen and digest that information before completely disregarding it. Don't be a jonnynobody. Take the shortcut 

You're gonna love the jack's! I've found the sweet spot to be 675-725ppm. No epsom in veg. It will only cause you problems. Jack's has 6.3% mag sulfate. In flower add the epsom. The extra sulfates will help produce some stinky bud. In veg it is just unnecessary and causes foliage problems. I mix 4g 5-12-26/gallon and 2.4g calcium nitrate/gallon. PH adjust to 5.8. Dilute to 675-725ppm as needed. I don't mess with the ratios as others do. That's the reason most people that switch to jack's have problems. Jack's is a little hot at the recommended strength, but the ratios are perfect. I just add as much RO to my reservoir as I need to balance out the mixture. I have a 32 gallon res and a shortcut is that I'll weigh out 26 gallons of fertilizer and the ppm almost comes out perfect. Good luck dude! You're gonna love the change!


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## Nrk.cdn (Jun 9, 2021)

After running the jack nutrient line NPK ratios as per Jacks, I still can't wrap my head around the numbers. It's just hard to imagine numbers that high not destroying shit. 

Jacks 3.6-2.4-1.2 @ 145-50-205 (1200ppm on a 500 scale) OR
Jacks tap 15-5-20 5grms w/1grm epson salts @198-29-219 (1050ppm 500 scale)

Jacks bloom 10-30-20 5grm + 1grm epson salt @ 132-173-219 (950ppm 500 scale)

Jacks finisher 7-15-30 5.4grm + 1grm epson salts @ 100-93-355 
1050ppm 500 scale)

The grams are from jacks feed schedule.
Am I missing something?


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## jonnynobody (Jun 9, 2021)

Nrk.cdn said:


> After running the jack nutrient line NPK ratios as per Jacks, I still can't wrap my head around the numbers. It's just hard to imagine numbers that high not destroying shit.
> 
> Jacks 3.6-2.4-1.2 @ 145-50-205 (1200ppm on a 500 scale) OR
> Jacks tap 15-5-20 5grms w/1grm epson salts @198-29-219 (1050ppm 500 scale)
> ...


I'm gonna make this real simple for you sir. Pay attention. All fertilizer manufacturers recommend too high a ppm for our crops. They're in the business of selling fertilizer. The more you use the more they sell. Simple as that. Now that you understand this simple fact let's move forward. 

Regardless of which jack's product you use unless you have 10' trees that are 15' in diameter you do not ever need to run higher than 725 ppm. Mix jack's up at the recommended ratios then dilute the mixture to 675-725ppm with RO or plain water. No rocket science here dude. I'll tell you the same thing I tell everyone else: think for yourself. Don't let the fertilizer manufacturer's tell you how strong your fertilizer should be. Listen to your plants. If you have burned tips and edges you are feeding too strong. Again, no rocket science here. To make it even simpler let's say you have a 15 gallon reservoir for example. Jack's is too strong at the recommended dose, right? When you're doing your math to weigh out your powder just pretend your reservoir is 12 gallons. So 5-12-26 @ 4g/gallon x 12=48g. Calcium nitrate? 2.4g x12=28.8g. Again, if you are in veg using the 321 system omit the epsom salt. You do not need additional epsom above and beyond what the 5-12-26 already provides at 6.3% in veg. There as absolutely no reason to add epsom in veg with the 321 system. In flower? Yes! You want the extra sulfates to make some stinky flowers. Same target ppm for flower @ 675-725. Running a higher PPM will not get you better bud. It will only burn your plants and reduce your yield.

To directly answer your question: what you're missing is the fertilizer companies are great at making fertilizer. They're terrible at recommending the proper ec for optimal growth. Do remember these people aren't in our business. They don't grow pot. They make fertilizer. I have this same conversation with people about LED grow lights. Nearly every manufacturer recommends a distance too close to the canopy resulting in an epidemic of LED light burned plants and growers that don't understand what's happening. Same analogy. They're great at making lights (most anyways), but they do not grow pot. They make lights. The moral of the story here is think for yourself sir. You are the bottom line


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## jonnynobody (Jun 9, 2021)

Hash from jack's 321 grown plants. It's so strong as soon as you exhale your eyes instantly get heavy and everything moves slower. Just jack'n it homie - 1 day at a time 

I dry ice sieved this through a 220 micron bubble bag. Nice haul. A little pissed off I didn't hit 1/2#


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## Nrk.cdn (Jun 9, 2021)

Plain and simple. Thank you fellow scholar. I do tend to follow the ppm/EC as a guideline. 

So irrelevant of "what" you are using (I have only used 5-12-26 / cal-nit / epson ), keep to 675-725. 

The EC fert Co. recommendations are insane but on these forums there is a constant Bro science at work that tends to confuse the messages from experienced growers.

Thanks again. 
Knowledge is power.


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## jonnynobody (Jun 9, 2021)

Nrk.cdn said:


> The EC fert Co. recommendations are insane but on these forums there is a constant Bro science at work that tends to confuse the messages from experienced growers.


Bro science gets us all at one point or another  Fortunately those years are behind me. Most of the problems I see in the new grower section are over feeding whether it's a soil grower or hydro grower. For every 10 growers that over feed I might see 1 that under feeds. Just remember less is more.

Hell, when I water jack's on my soil godfather OG or even on my outdoor flower garden I only water in fertilizer at 600-700ppm once every 2 weeks. My godfather OG looks fantastic. And so does the flower garden!

My first grow I ever did I used 10 different bottles of techna flora brand nutrients. The shit literally came in a little suit case type package. It was ridiculous. Needless to say I fried all of the plants and I didn't harvest a single gram worth smoking. It was bad. I almost gave up growing after that because I couldn't understand what I did wrong. Then the old timers kept telling me less is more. Eventually it sunk in. Why must we all resist good advice when given? It's definitely one of the lesser human qualities and I think we're all affected by it at one point or another in our lives. Some much more often than others


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## Nrk.cdn (Jun 9, 2021)

Johnnynobody, 

Great name, reminds me of the spaghetti western "my name is nobody".

Quick question, do you use jacks 10-30-20 for the 1-2 weeks? If so, same deal at the 675-725ppm?


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## jonnynobody (Jun 9, 2021)

Nrk.cdn said:


> Johnnynobody,
> 
> Great name, reminds me of the spaghetti western "my name is nobody".
> 
> Quick question, do you use jacks 10-30-20 for the 1-2 weeks? If so, same deal at the 675-725ppm?


I actually have not used the 10-30-20 bloom formula. I would love to try it though. I did run the 7-15-30 finish formula for 2 weeks on the last cycle at 725ppm and it seems to produce favorable results. New flower blooms started popping out with new white hairs everywhere. Cost is the only thing that's stopped me from getting the bloom boost. Trying to keep costs down at the moment. I'm definitely buying it before my next flower cycle though after seeing how well the finish formula performed. I always like to buy the 25# bags. Super economical. Toss it all in a homer bucket with the orange rubber gasket style lid and it's good for infinite long term storage. 

Regardless of which fertilizer I'm using 675-725 ppm on the 500 scale or about 1.4-1.6 ec is the max I would feed. Very few scenarios would requirea higher ppm. Flood and drain systems for instance may require a higher ppm by the nature of how they work. Roots are flooded a few times per hour with fertilizer versus constant exposure. For this reason flood and drain would require a higher ppm to deliver the necessary amount of elements to the plant in those short windows of time during the flood cycle.


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## rkymtnman (Jun 9, 2021)

Nrk.cdn said:


> Jacks tap 15-5-20 5grms w/1grm epson salts @198-29-219 (1050ppm 500 scale)


i run jacks RO at either 1 or 1.5 g/gal. no cal or mg needed. 1.5 is roughly 0.5 EC. i use well water.


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## Nrk.cdn (Jun 9, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i run jacks RO at either 1 or 1.5 g/gal. no cal or mg needed. 1.5 is roughly 0.5 EC. i use well water.


I was also looking at the 12-4-16 RO. You are not adding anything else? 
With 1.5grm, buds swell nice? 
I have city water at 100-150ish ppm. 

I have read a few of your posts so this is good information from another experienced grower. Thanks.


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## rkymtnman (Jun 9, 2021)

Nrk.cdn said:


> I was also looking at the 12-4-16 RO. You are not adding anything else?
> With 1.5grm, buds swell nice?
> I have city water at 100-150ish ppm.
> 
> I have read a few of your posts so this is good information from another experienced grower. Thanks.


i run a silica product si dioxide (so no potassium), a fulvic product and southern ag. 

i run DTW DWC (hydrofarms) and i feed 1x a day to slight runoff at 0.7 (0.2 well water)


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## rkymtnman (Jun 10, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> So waiting on my 320 boveda until monday


have you tried the integra boost packs? i think they retain smells better than boveda.


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## jonnynobody (Jun 10, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> have you tried the integra boost packs? i think they retain smells better than boveda.


I heard mixed reviews on those. So far the boveda is working great. Pricey sucker though. I'll try the integras next time. Much more affordable. If they don't work out amazon will take 'em back. Love me some amazon.


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## The Dankstar (Jun 10, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I heard mixed reviews on those. So far the boveda is working great. Pricey sucker though. I'll try the integras next time. Much more affordable. If they don't work out amazon will take 'em back. Love me some amazon.


Great rundown on everything man. I'm just waiting out some summer heat here and i'm gona run some jacks too. Going to copy paste all your numbers and try it out. RDWC building with 14g totes rn.


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## rkymtnman (Jun 10, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I heard mixed reviews on those. So far the boveda is working great. Pricey sucker though. I'll try the integras next time. Much more affordable. If they don't work out amazon will take 'em back. Love me some amazon.


i started with the bovedas and then tried the integras. i like the integras better. i buy the ones that are like 3" x 5" big.


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## Arkos (Jun 11, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i started with the bovedas and then tried the integras. i like the integras better. i buy the ones that are like 3" x 5" big


Size really does matter


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## jonnynobody (Jun 11, 2021)

I'm impressed with the performance of the boveda 320g 62%. I actually don't have anymore bud to hydrate and it's a bit much for long term storage to be honest. 62% is excellent for over dried bud, but I would never use it for storage. Too much moisture for properly dried buds. Maybe the 58% ones are popular for a reason?


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## Arkos (Jun 12, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I'm impressed with the performance of the boveda 320g 62%. I actually don't have anymore bud to hydrate and it's a bit much for long term storage to be honest. 62% is excellent for over dried bud, but I would never use it for storage. Too much moisture for properly dried buds. Maybe the 58% ones are popular for a reason?


The big ones are the only ones that are worth it imo, the small ones don't last but a few days in my experience.
It can take weeks to rehydrate too dry weed with the 62% and personally I've found them very good for long term storage, it really preserves the terps. 

Not tried the 58% tbh but will for sure, imo these products are genius.


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## thetruthoverlies (Jun 12, 2021)

Jacks is good stuff. I once tried to get a commercial grow to use this as a cost effective product to increase profit margins...Instead they opted to buy 50gal drums of liquid karma and bunch of other non-sense.

They went broke...

I like Dynagro Foliage pro, but my 2nd choice would be jacks pro hydro + the cal-nit


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## MidnightSun72 (Jun 12, 2021)

Can someone help me out with Jacks?
I got high ppm tap water 300-400ppn out of the tap. Sometimes worse. PH usually 7-7.5 out of the tap.


what's good for vegging moms and clones
15-6-17?? Do you ever put any food in your cloner res? Ive been getting some yellowing I want to avoid. Would this help? Or would it stall rooting?
do you add cal not to this as well?

and then what's actually needed for flower?
I saw another poster say just the 5-12-26 is needed? Do you add cal nit to this?

Currently flowering with FloraFlex and really like it so far helped straighten out some cal mag looking issues fast. But it also is really expensive compared to Jacks.

Edit: also just really like the simplicity of A+B deal. Jacks should be the same just plus Epsom salts?


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## rkymtnman (Jun 12, 2021)

MidnightSun72 said:


> Can someone help me out with Jacks?
> I got high ppm tap water 300-400ppn out of the tap. Sometimes worse. PH usually 7-7.5 out of the tap


fix your water, not your nutes.


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## MidnightSun72 (Jun 12, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> fix your water, not your nutes.


I do. I mix my water with distilled down to 150ppm. But I thought jacks had a hard water product or something.


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## rkymtnman (Jun 12, 2021)

MidnightSun72 said:


> I do. I mix my water with distilled down to 150ppm. But I thought jacks had a hard water product or something.


well that info would have been good to know. lol. 

i use jack's RO formula with my well water 0.2EC. i had issues with jacks tap. 1 part . just a FYI as an alternative to 321


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## MidnightSun72 (Jun 12, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> well that info would have been good to know. lol.
> 
> i use jack's RO formula with my well water 0.2EC. i had issues with jacks tap. 1 part . just a FYI as an alternative to 321


so for VEG it's Part A 5-12-26 + Part B 15-5-20 TAP (if I wanted to try straight tap water instead of the CAL NIT?


and for Flower it's Part A 5-12-26 + Part B 10-30-20 BLOOM?

is that correct? And do you skip the CAL NIT?


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## TintEastwood (Jun 12, 2021)

MidnightSun72 said:


> Part A 5-12-26


Part-A 5-12-26 is normally used in combination with Part-B 15-0-0 calnit.

The bagged 10-30-20, RO and TAP are one-part. Optionally, as needed, calnit can be used with these.


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## MidnightSun72 (Jun 12, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> Part-A 5-12-26 is normally used in combination with Part-B 15-0-0 calnit.
> 
> The bagged 10-30-20, RO and TAP are one-part. Optionally, or as needed, calnit can be used with these.


So if I understand correctly. For VEG all I would run is 15-5-20 TAP and cal nit if I see a calcium deficiency?

and for Flower
Just 10-30-20 plus cal nit as needed?


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## TintEastwood (Jun 12, 2021)

MidnightSun72 said:


> So if I understand correctly. For VEG all I would run is 15-5-20 TAP and cal nit if I see a calcium deficiency?
> 
> and for Flower
> Just 10-30-20 plus cal nit as needed?


Tap or RO, many run the 5-12-26 + Calnit + Epsom. Aka Jacks 321. For veg and/or flower.

Personally, I would only use the tap formula if I had a PH stability issue with Jacks 321.

Some run the same formula/ratio start to finish.
I'm trying the bagged 10-30-20 only for the first 2 (to 3) weeks of bloom this run.

Just some common nute profiles, broken down into elemental ppm. (bagged tap formula not on this - yet)


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## TintEastwood (Jun 12, 2021)

I was curious....added bagged TAP breakdown, at 3.5 grams per gallon. I don't list them, but the bagged TAP includes micros. (with zero Ca, you really gotta be sure enough Ca is in your tap water)


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## jcdws602 (Jun 13, 2021)

MidnightSun72 said:


> So if I understand correctly. For VEG all I would run is 15-5-20 TAP and cal nit if I see a calcium deficiency?
> 
> and for Flower
> Just 10-30-20 plus cal nit as needed?


No. Here is the feeding chart for jacks tap. Essentially you are running jacks tap the whole cycle. The bloom and finish are not necessary. I too was confused when switching. So much that I wrote an email to a jacks rep just to make sure a veg and bloom formula weren't needed separately.


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## 2com (Jun 13, 2021)

Applesauceisgood said:


> If that suggestion triggers you like it does rocky mountain man, don't try it and keep it simple.


It's "Ricky Martin Man". He's a big fan,_ big_ fan.


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## jonnynobody (Jun 14, 2021)

Shit never ends in the garden man. I swapped out both my carbon blocks, prefilter, and DI resin. Fucker is spitting out 4-5ppm. No good. Spending another unplanned $50 for 2 new RO membranes on amazon. They'll hit Thursday and will be installed ASAP. How I was able to zero in on the membranes as the culprit is because all other filters have been swapped. This increased the rate of flow through the RO system dramatically. The RO membranes just can't keep up. Also, when the membranes are going out on ya it will trash your DI resin extremely fast on the final 5th stage of filtration. DI resin is a pretty ocean blue when it's all good. In under 1 month half of it has turned sludge brown. Another sign of that the RO membranes are failing. Here's a pic of the 5 stage system. It's basically a prefilter, 2 carbon blocks, the 2 RO membranes, and then finally to the DI resin. I gotta split before the DI with a flow regulator that goes to my kitchen sink and a 1 gallon pitcher in my basement near my garden work area I installed a float valve on. Who the hell wants to walk up stairs for a water refill. Not this fucking guy. That's for sure 



Laundry cold water tee feeds the RO system. Nuttin fancy. The 2 white canisters are the RO membranes. This is a water saver model so it has a 1:1 exchange ratio. The best you can get for efficiency.

So I asked myself a question today and we're gonna find out the answer soon enough. The question was, how low can I go on ec with jack's 321 that satisfies the plant's needs without using more than is necessary? I'm running 600PPM which is around 1.2 ec on the res I'm making today. I'm also trying out RAW's humic acid. I particularly think the RAW brand is a fleece job, but I bought this shit years ago and thought I'd give it a whirl at the lowest recommended rate of application. 1/8 tsp/gallon. It's supposed to increase the effectiveness of nutrient uptake. I doubt it, but we'll see. If I notice any negative effects the remainder of the bag will get trashed.






I'm doing a major overhaul today getting the flower room up and running. I'm gonna banzai the fuck out of this overgrown critical mass that's way overgrown. Basically I'm just gonna hack the canopy down about 6". Then I'll let it all regrow back as an even lush horizontal canopy. And 6" lower 

She's a beast:


Applying another round of Forbid 4F to mitigate a mite issue. I fucking hate growing in the warm months. Mites are a plague that never ends. All it takes is 1 of those little cocksuckers to hitch hike on some article of your clothing. I change my shoes. I change my clothes. I shower after working outside before entering. Doesn't matter. The fuckers find a way in. After the forbid application I'll be switching to all organic methods using Grandevo CG and Venerate CG. They are safe and effective up to harvest day. Planning to initiate flowering in the next 14 days. Need a little more girth on my other smaller plants. This cycle is definitely gonna be a reduction in size. Not too dramatic, but it will be easier on me and the wife. Last cycle was a real bitch of a process. No encores 



Here's a pic of the outside garden using jack's 20-20-20 @ 650ppm:




Edited: I mistakenly listed my ec as 2.5. Total brain fart. 1.25 ec 

Just jack'n it fellas. It releases endorphins and promotes a sense of calm


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## 1212ham (Jun 14, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Shit never ends in the garden man. I swapped out both my carbon blocks, prefilter, and DI resin. Fucker is spitting out 4-5ppm. No good. Spending another unplanned $50 for 2 new RO membranes on amazon. They'll hit Thursday and will be installed ASAP. How I was able to zero in on the membranes as the culprit is because all other filters have been swapped. This increased the rate of flow through the RO system dramatically. The RO membranes just can't keep up. Also, when the membranes are going out on ya it will trash your DI resin extremely fast on the final 5th stage of filtration. DI resin is a pretty ocean blue when it's all good. In under 1 month half of it has turned sludge brown. Another sign of that the RO membranes are failing. Here's a pic of the 5 stage system. It's basically a prefilter, 2 carbon blocks, the 2 RO membranes, and then finally to the DI resin. I gotta split before the DI with a flow regulator that goes to my kitchen sink and a 1 gallon pitcher in my basement near my garden work area I installed a float valve on. Who the hell wants to walk up stairs for a water refill. Not this fucking guy. That's for sure
> 
> View attachment 4923170
> 
> ...


Easy sollution, disconnect the DI stage and relax. You don't need distilled to grow plants and 4-5 ppm is no problem. In fact, DI is corrosive, with zero ions it will leach ions from metals.


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## jonnynobody (Jun 14, 2021)

Just removed the single phillips screw on all my trim scissors. Ran them all through the shearsharp and they're dam near razor sharp now. Prior to sharpening they wouldn't even cut wax string. Now they effortlessly snip it all the way to the tip. I'd highly recommend the shearsharp. Cheap and effective.



Back to work now.


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## jonnynobody (Jun 14, 2021)

1212ham said:


> Easy sollution, disconnect the DI stage and relax. You don't need distilled to grow plants and 4-5 ppm is no problem. In fact, DI is corrosive, with zero ions it will leach ions from metals.


4-5ppm with new prefilter and carbon blocks indicates the membranes are failing. It's been over a year since it was placed into service making 90-150 gallons per week. Factoring in the waste water I run between 180-300 gallons per week. Let's just call it an average of about 250 gallons per week x 52 = about 13,000 gallons. They're due. It only gets worse from here. $50 gets me good for another year at 0ppm. I bought an expensive RO system to obtain 0 ppm water. Anything more is unacceptable. My electric bill is over $800/month during flower. $50 for maintenance on my RO system is no biggie. I'm considering installing bulk reef supply's back flush device so you can periodically rinse the membranes prolonging their life.

I should also mention that once my flower cycle is under way life gets pretty crazy on the day to day work load. I'm dealing with clones, transplants, and a flower room. Plus I still gotta knock the wife around once in awhile and have a sammmich now and then. Needless to say the hours in the day get much shorter as does my patience. If I don't replace the membranes now it'll be 3-4 months from now. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I'm a very strong believer in keeping up with maintenance on all of my garden equipment.


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## PJ Diaz (Jun 14, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Shit never ends in the garden man. I swapped out both my carbon blocks, prefilter, and DI resin. Fucker is spitting out 4-5ppm. No good. Spending another unplanned $50 for 2 new RO membranes on amazon. They'll hit Thursday and will be installed ASAP. How I was able to zero in on the membranes as the culprit is because all other filters have been swapped. This increased the rate of flow through the RO system dramatically. The RO membranes just can't keep up. Also, when the membranes are going out on ya it will trash your DI resin extremely fast on the final 5th stage of filtration. DI resin is a pretty ocean blue when it's all good. In under 1 month half of it has turned sludge brown. Another sign of that the RO membranes are failing. Here's a pic of the 5 stage system. It's basically a prefilter, 2 carbon blocks, the 2 RO membranes, and then finally to the DI resin. I gotta split before the DI with a flow regulator that goes to my kitchen sink and a 1 gallon pitcher in my basement near my garden work area I installed a float valve on. Who the hell wants to walk up stairs for a water refill. Not this fucking guy. That's for sure
> 
> View attachment 4923170
> 
> ...


Humic Acid doesn't really help much in hydro situations. It's Fulvic Acid that you want for hydro.


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## jonnynobody (Jun 14, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> Humic Acid doesn't really help much in hydro situations. It's Fulvic Acid that you want for hydro.


Thanks for the heads up. I'm definitely trashing the rest of it. Shit foamed in my res. I literally had to skim it off. I think I originally bought the stuff for making organic microbe tea but I did very badly at growing organically and abandoned that ship quickly for hempy buckets. I occasionally find all sorts of weird shit in my cabinets from that organic expedition. A gallon of molasses the other day. What the hell do ya do with a gallon of molasses?


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## PJ Diaz (Jun 14, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> What the hell do ya do with a gallon of molasses?


Make brown sugar?


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## jcdws602 (Jun 14, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I'm definitely trashing the rest of it. Shit foamed in my res. I literally had to skim it off. I think I originally bought the stuff for making organic microbe tea but I did very badly at growing organically and abandoned that ship quickly for hempy buckets. I occasionally find all sorts of weird shit in my cabinets from that organic expedition. A gallon of molasses the other day. What the hell do ya do with a gallon of molasses?


Haha here ya go.....

Molasses adds moisture and color to baked goods like pecan pie, and it thickens up barbecue sauce for meat like pulled pork. Some other ways to use molasses in cooking include: Syrup: Light molasses can be a substitute for maple syrup, drizzled over pancakes or to sweeten a bowl of oatmeal.


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## thetruthoverlies (Jun 14, 2021)

When I ran jacks I used equal parts volume of the calnit and hydro mix...Ran ppms low at about 1.4 ec all the way.


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## rkymtnman (Jun 15, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> What the hell do ya do with a gallon of molasses?











Shoofly Pie Recipe


Shoofly pie is often thought of as the cake baked in a pie shell, or so wrote Jean Hewitt, The New York Times food writer who offered this recipe in the paper in 1965 This pie was served at a Pennsylvania Dutch luncheon hosted by the International Cuisine Group of the College Woman’s Club of...




cooking.nytimes.com


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## toastedleaf (Jun 16, 2021)

anyone supplement Jacks 3-2-1 with anything else? Im running into some leaf issues and wondering if it was because of my Sf2000, I have herd, recently, i may need to add mag sulfate 4-6g/ gallon. Wanted to confirm so i can keep things moving, I'm on day 11 from flip. Thanks for the advice


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## jonnynobody (Jun 16, 2021)

toastedleaf said:


> anyone supplement Jacks 3-2-1 with anything else? Im running into some leaf issues and wondering if it was because of my Sf2000, I have herd, recently, i may need to add mag sulfate 4-6g/ gallon. Wanted to confirm so i can keep things moving, I'm on day 11 from flip. Thanks for the adviceView attachment 4924530


Man that picture makes me wanna say you have possible light burn, because I see the necrotic spots on your leaves and the plant as a whole looks very healthy. A little chlorosis in the leaves, but I think that's just early stages of light burn. You just switched to flower so this damage I see may be from your veg cycle. It's common with LED's because the lights run for 18/6 instead of 12/12. If the light intensity is too much it's too much for 6 hours longer each day. Those lower necrotic leaves could either be lack of light and be nothing of significance or another issue. Probably just lack of light which is very common and natural. Personally I don't add any epsom in veg with the 321 system. Jack's 5-12-26 has 6.3% mag sulfate. That's a lot. However, I do add it in flower for the extra sulfates. Also, this is when your plants are the largest and have the largest nutrient demands of their life cycles. I just don't feel it's necessary in veg.


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## toastedleaf (Jun 16, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Man that picture makes me wanna say you have possible light burn, because I see the necrotic spots on your leaves and the plant as a whole looks very healthy. A little chlorosis in the leaves, but I think that's just early stages of light burn. You just switched to flower so this damage I see may be from your veg cycle. It's common with LED's because the lights run for 18/6 instead of 12/12. If the light intensity is too much it's too much for 6 hours longer each day. Those lower necrotic leaves could either be lack of light and be nothing of significance or another issue. Probably just lack of light which is very common and natural. Personally I don't add any epsom in veg with the 321 system. Jack's 5-12-26 has 6.3% mag sulfate. That's a lot. However, I do add it in flower for the extra sulfates. Also, this is when your plants are the largest and have the largest nutrient demands of their life cycles. I just don't feel it's necessary in veg.


so should I just raise the light up? it’s 12” to the tallest one now. Didn’t want to raise to too high, in hopes to control stretch, and get some into the shorter plants. I could also dim it. 
also just to clairify, I should look into some mag sulfate, but probably won’t need to use it for another couple weeks? Appreciate the help!


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## jonnynobody (Jun 16, 2021)

toastedleaf said:


> so should I just raise the light up? it’s 12” to the tallest one now. Didn’t want to raise to too high, in hopes to control stretch, and get some into the shorter plants. I could also dim it.
> also just to clairify, I should look into some mag sulfate, but probably won’t need to use it for another couple weeks? Appreciate the help!


12" is very close for a high output qb. I would raise the light to 24". After flower set at week 4 I would look at lowering it back down to 12". There's no point in showering the plant with too much light in week 1-3 of flower. You've got delicate fresh flower sites forming and they have no need for extreme intensity. Once you've developed some healthy flowers by week 4 it's time to crank up the volume until you harvest. Those flower sites at week 4-harvest will need all the flower power they can get.

Add epsom salt once you're in flower. It is not needed in veg.


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## 2com (Jun 16, 2021)

toastedleaf said:


> so should I just raise the light up? it’s 12” to the tallest one now. Didn’t want to raise to too high, in hopes to control stretch, and get some into the shorter plants. I could also dim it.
> also just to clairify, I should look into some mag sulfate, but probably won’t need to use it for another couple weeks? Appreciate the help!


That is not "light burn".


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## TintEastwood (Jun 16, 2021)

Possibly...


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## jcdws602 (Jun 16, 2021)

Light stress can cause intervenal chlorosis which can often be mistaken for magnesium deficiency or they simply are deficient in magnesium. Im also leaning more towards light stress being that his light was so close.


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Jun 16, 2021)

jcdws602 said:


> Light stress can cause intervenal chlorosis which can often be mistaken for magnesium deficiency or they simply are deficient in magnesium. Im also leaning more towards light stress being that his light was so close.


i think it's probably both...


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## jonnynobody (Jun 16, 2021)

Assuming he's using jack's at the proper ec and PH he shouldn't be having any nutritive issues. Definitely not a K deficiency. Add magnesium to that list. Jack's 5-12-26 has 6.3%. There's no way you're going to see a deficiency when jack's is applied at the recommended rate. Without more info it's not possible to diagnose further. I have no idea what his PH or medium is like. I'd still lean towards LED light burn. There should be no nutritive issue if he's using the 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate at the recommended rates. Tip burn is possible when running a high ec with jack's, but there should be zero reason for a deficiency. Lot's of people like to monkey with the jack's ratio though for some reason unbeknownst to me. It rarely ends up a happy story. Who knows? Maybe he's using his own formula. I've never seen anything but LED light burn and magnesium deficiency cause that kind of chlorosis and necrosis. Again with 6.3% mag sulfate in the jack's there's no way he's experiencing a magnesium deficiency. This is all assuming he is following the proper mixing instructions.


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## toastedleaf (Jun 16, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Assuming he's using jack's at the proper ec and PH he shouldn't be having any nutritive issues. Definitely not a K deficiency. Add magnesium to that list. Jack's 5-12-26 has 6.3%. There's no way you're going to see a deficiency when jack's is applied at the recommended rate. Without more info it's not possible to diagnose further. I have no idea what his PH or medium is like. I'd still lean towards LED light burn. There should be no nutritive issue if he's using the 5-12-26 and calcium nitrate at the recommended rates. Tip burn is possible when running a high ec with jack's, but there should be zero reason for a deficiency. Lot's of people like to monkey with the jack's ratio though for some reason unbeknownst to me. It rarely ends up a happy story. Who knows? Maybe he's using his own formula. I've never seen anything but LED light burn and magnesium deficiency cause that kind of chlorosis and necrosis. Again with 6.3% mag sulfate in the jack's there's no way he's experiencing a magnesium deficiency. This is all assuming he is following the proper mixing instructions.


I will try to answer all uncertainties :
1. i'm doing DWC 70L totes with 50L water in each, i mix my res up in a separate 120 L tote before dividing between the 2.
2. My recipe for the 100L is Jack A- 95g B-63g salt 25g ( i will now moving forward omit the salt until flower has set in).This 
3. Ph 5.8 currently although it was crept up slowly to 6.2 over the grow.
4. I do have a small grow journal should anyone want to check it out, it does at least document my progress so far.
res temp has been in the low 70's-high 60's. 
5. tent temp had been a little cool last week 65-75, its now 75-83. ( i had been venting outside, switched to inside as i was pretty sure LED wanted higher temperatures.
6. humidity levels 50-55%, just lowered it to 45% as she's about to show signs of flowering any day and i thought that would be better.

again thanks for the input


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## Snowback (Jun 26, 2021)

I just bought my first Jacks. Two different types: The 5-12-26 and the 15-6-17 (Clone), which will not actually be used for clones most of the time. 
Thanks to all of you for the valuable info that you supplied in this thread. It helped me to make my decision.


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## MustGro (Jun 26, 2021)

I just finished my first flower run on Jack's 3-2-1 and my plants loved it. I tried their Finish at the end and my plants hated it! Surprised me since the 3-2-1 was so well received. Thought it might be a nice way to run them out at the end; a little less N and some more K than the 3-2-1. It's blue powder so it's dyed. Turned my reservoir windex blue. About 3 days later a few of my leaves started to get that dark purple indica color from it. The PH dropped so much that I used as much PH up in 4 days as I did in the last 4 months. The PPM didn't change in my tank. I was adding so much PH up that the PPMs stayed around 750 for 4 days. There's no calcium in it so they recommend you buy their calcium supplement to go with it also. I dumped it after 5 days and went back to a lower dose of the 3-2-1 to run out. The plants got happy again. I hope the 15-6-17 clone works better for you @Snowback !
I do love the 2 part, just amazes me how much of a difference there was in the 2 products.


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## jonnynobody (Jun 26, 2021)

toastedleaf said:


> I will try to answer all uncertainties :
> 1. i'm doing DWC 70L totes with 50L water in each, i mix my res up in a separate 120 L tote before dividing between the 2.
> 2. My recipe for the 100L is Jack A- 95g B-63g salt 25g ( i will now moving forward omit the salt until flower has set in).This
> 3. Ph 5.8 currently although it was crept up slowly to 6.2 over the grow.
> ...


After omitting the epsom your recipe is nearly the same as mine. I hold 32 gallon reservoirs but when weighing the A and B I always pretend as if it's only 24 gallons to hit my target ec of 1.3-1.4. A tip for maintaining proper temp in your grow space when growing with LED lights is to buy an elecrric oil filled radiator. Usually $40-$50. I fucked up a bunch of plants before I put the heaters in. I was running temps between 70-74 and the plant's metabolism slows to a crawl. The leaves sweat off moisture at a much lower rate and drink less at the root zone as a result. Boom! I started seeing all sorts of strange shit happening to the foliage that made no sense at the time. They basically weren't drinking fast enough to consume the nutrients they were given. Instead of watering every other day as per usual with my t5's I was only watering once every 3 days. I learned very quickly the only flaw with LED lights is they are so dam efficient they often do not provide enough heat output to keep the grow space at the ideal temperature (78-82F) which causes the plants to basically starve. To complicate matters further the plants are being showered with more light than they can use. Chlorosis and necrotic spots develop. I often hear the myth that won't die that LED grown plants require more mag and calcium. Horse shit. The plants need heat in the right range to grow properly. Supplemental heat. Problem solved. 

Keep kicking ass buddy. You'll get things dialed in before long. All of your other variables seem to be in check. Light speed ahead sir.


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## toastedleaf (Jun 26, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> After omitting the epsom your recipe is nearly the same as mine. I hold 32 gallon reservoirs but when weighing the A and B I always pretend as if it's only 24 gallons to hit my target ec of 1.3-1.4. A tip for maintaining proper temp in your grow space when growing with LED lights is to buy an elecrric oil filled radiator. Usually $40-$50. I fucked up a bunch of plants before I put the heaters in. I was running temps between 70-74 and the plant's metabolism slows to a crawl. The leaves sweat off moisture at a much lower rate and drink less at the root zone as a result. Boom! I started seeing all sorts of strange shit happening to the foliage that made no sense at the time. They basically weren't drinking fast enough to consume the nutrients they were given. Instead of watering every other day as per usual with my t5's I was only watering once every 3 days. I learned very quickly the only flaw with LED lights is they are so dam efficient they often do not provide enough heat output to keep the grow space at the ideal temperature (78-82F) which causes the plants to basically starve. To complicate matters further the plants are being showered with more light than they can use. Chlorosis and necrotic spots develop. I often hear the myth that won't die that LED grown plants require more mag and calcium. Horse shit. The plants need heat in the right range to grow properly. Supplemental heat. Problem solved.
> 
> Keep kicking ass buddy. You'll get things dialed in before long. All of your other variables seem to be in check. Light speed ahead sir.


Thanks, i was considering weighing nutes out for 80L instead of 100L for next grow, as i seem to be diluting it every res change anyway. I'm moving into flower now, just past day 21, i figured may as well keep the current measurements as I'm sure they will get hungry soon.
The heat I have under control now as summer has set in and tent temps are now 75-83. Just did a decent amount of defoil. All my problems cleared up once i followed your advice of raising light/turning it down.
I appreciate the advice and encouragement.


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## Snowback (Jun 27, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> After omitting the epsom your recipe is nearly the same as mine. I hold 32 gallon reservoirs but when weighing the A and B I always pretend as if it's only 24 gallons to hit my target ec of 1.3-1.4. A tip for maintaining proper temp in your grow space when growing with LED lights is to buy an elecrric oil filled radiator. Usually $40-$50. I fucked up a bunch of plants before I put the heaters in. I was running temps between 70-74 and the plant's metabolism slows to a crawl. The leaves sweat off moisture at a much lower rate and drink less at the root zone as a result. Boom! I started seeing all sorts of strange shit happening to the foliage that made no sense at the time. They basically weren't drinking fast enough to consume the nutrients they were given. Instead of watering every other day as per usual with my t5's I was only watering once every 3 days. I learned very quickly the only flaw with LED lights is they are so dam efficient they often do not provide enough heat output to keep the grow space at the ideal temperature (78-82F) which causes the plants to basically starve. To complicate matters further the plants are being showered with more light than they can use. Chlorosis and necrotic spots develop. I often hear the myth that won't die that LED grown plants require more mag and calcium. Horse shit. The plants need heat in the right range to grow properly. Supplemental heat. Problem solved.
> 
> Keep kicking ass buddy. You'll get things dialed in before long. All of your other variables seem to be in check. Light speed ahead sir.


Those were my findings as well. Unfortunately in the winter all of the heat that I have to add into the system almost completely offsets my electrical savings vs. HIDs. Right now in the hotness of summer the efficiency is great though.


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## jonnynobody (Jun 27, 2021)

Snowback said:


> Those were my findings as well. Unfortunately in the winter all of the heat that I have to add into the system almost completely offsets my electrical savings vs. HIDs. Right now in the hotness of summer the efficiency is great though.


You are on point sir. I'm saving 2 of my 1000w lamps for winter growing to provide heat and some nice flower power. Otherwise I'll have to run a heater in the room. That puppy is 1500w and doesn't add any light to the room. Might as well get some lumens and heat at the same time by running a couple HID's. I'm planning to mount the 2 1000's right in the center of the room where they were before flanked by 2 660w qb's in the front and rear of those. Overkill? Nah 

Summer is a bitch. There's no other way to describe it. Between the bugs, heat, and outside yard maintenance everything is harder and takes more time. Electric consumption is higher too. It's challenging to overcome all of these variables, but each problem has a solution. Heat? LED lighting paired with heavy duty ventilation both in and out of the room. The faster you exchange the air the more closely the grow room will match the ambient temperature of the intake air which is usually stable in most homes (emphasis on most). Back up ventilation with a portable AC if needed is environmental insurance for the scorching hot days. You may need it and it's one of those things that's nice to have and not need but it's brutal to need it and not have it. Watching high value plants cook is devastating. Been there. Done that. Bought the t-shirt. Then I bought a portable AC and said never again. A solid integrated pest management program keeps bugs out of your garden. Something I slacked on and am now presently battling spider mites due to lack of IPM. However, I got the medicine for those bastards. Hosed 'em down with Forbid 4F. Next day dead mites were allover the ground. Both nauseating and satisfying at the same time. It was a real mind bender and a testament to what happens when you slack off on your IPM. Those fuckers are looking for any way in they can find to make an all you can eat buffet out of your plants. If you're running an IPM regimen (I wasn't) you'll be right as rain. If not you'll be waging war which is time consuming and may potentially affect your final yield depending on the level of infestation. IPM is much easier.


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## toastedleaf (Jul 10, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> After omitting the epsom your recipe is nearly the same as mine. I hold 32 gallon reservoirs but when weighing the A and B I always pretend as if it's only 24 gallons to hit my target ec of 1.3-1.4. A tip for maintaining proper temp in your grow space when growing with LED lights is to buy an elecrric oil filled radiator. Usually $40-$50. I fucked up a bunch of plants before I put the heaters in. I was running temps between 70-74 and the plant's metabolism slows to a crawl. The leaves sweat off moisture at a much lower rate and drink less at the root zone as a result. Boom! I started seeing all sorts of strange shit happening to the foliage that made no sense at the time. They basically weren't drinking fast enough to consume the nutrients they were given. Instead of watering every other day as per usual with my t5's I was only watering once every 3 days. I learned very quickly the only flaw with LED lights is they are so dam efficient they often do not provide enough heat output to keep the grow space at the ideal temperature (78-82F) which causes the plants to basically starve. To complicate matters further the plants are being showered with more light than they can use. Chlorosis and necrotic spots develop. I often hear the myth that won't die that LED grown plants require more mag and calcium. Horse shit. The plants need heat in the right range to grow properly. Supplemental heat. Problem solved.
> 
> Keep kicking ass buddy. You'll get things dialed in before long. All of your other variables seem to be in check. Light speed ahead sir.


was wondering if I could pick your brain again, after following your instructions, almost a month ago, by raising/dimming the light the problem went away. I now seem to be having the same problem, day 36 from flip, they are now 14" from the light (sf2000) with is at %55 power. I've got a few similar pics over the last week that show its getting slightly worse. I'm happy to provide more details/ photos. Just didn't want to mess with your thread too much. Thanks


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## jonnynobody (Sep 22, 2021)

toastedleaf said:


> was wondering if I could pick your brain again, after following your instructions, almost a month ago, by raising/dimming the light the problem went away. I now seem to be having the same problem, day 36 from flip, they are now 14" from the light (sf2000) with is at %55 power. I've got a few similar pics over the last week that show its getting slightly worse. I'm happy to provide more details/ photos. Just didn't want to mess with your thread too much. Thanks


Not sure if you're still around these days but I've got some info that may help from my last grow after converting to all LED. I ran full power from the middle of week 3 in flower and fried up some leaves pretty good. Prior to that I had the power at 50% and I don't think the canopy could have looked any healthier. The power increase actually hurt my plants because they didn't need it at that phase of growth. After flower set was complete and they began the thickening stage around the middle of week 4 I juiced all the lights up to full power without a problem. The plants took it and the flowers developed nicely without producing any more damage to the foliage. I plan to run the lights at 50% until the middle of week 4 next cycle. I'll increase to 75% for a few days then to 100% for the remainder of the flower cycle. It seems like once the flowers go into thickening stage the plant can take a lot more light than when flower set is still unfolding.

That sf2000 kicks out a lot of light. 14" is pretty close for one of those rigs even at 55% power. They also emit a lot of heat due to how tightly the diodes are packed together on those boards. Heavy light intensity coupled with a high amount of heat output close to the canopy is a recipe for unhappy foliage. Even in the flower room my boards are 36" or so from the canopy. Any closer would just fry my leaves. In a nutshell I'd recommend running the board at a much higher distance. Week 4 or so crank up the power to maximize flower production after your flower set is over. Drop the board close to the canopy in the last 2 weeks of flower to finish her off. With more distance between the board and canopy you should see better results.


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## rkymtnman (Sep 22, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Not sure if you're still around these days but I've got some info that may help from my last grow after converting to all LED. I ran full power from the middle of week 3 in flower and fried up some leaves pretty good. Prior to that I had the power at 50% and I don't think the canopy could have looked any healthier. The power increase actually hurt my plants because they didn't need it at that phase of growth. After flower set was complete and they began the thickening stage around the middle of week 4 I juiced all the lights up to full power without a problem. The plants took it and the flowers developed nicely without producing any more damage to the foliage. I plan to run the lights at 50% until the middle of week 4 next cycle. I'll increase to 75% for a few days then to 100% for the remainder of the flower cycle. It seems like once the flowers go into thickening stage the plant can take a lot more light than when flower set is still unfolding.
> 
> That sf2000 kicks out a lot of light. 14" is pretty close for one of those rigs even at 55% power. They also emit a lot of heat due to how tightly the diodes are packed together on those boards. Heavy light intensity coupled with a high amount of heat output close to the canopy is a recipe for unhappy foliage. Even in the flower room my boards are 36" or so from the canopy. Any closer would just fry my leaves. In a nutshell I'd recommend running the board at a much higher distance. Week 4 or so crank up the power to maximize flower production after your flower set is over. Drop the board close to the canopy in the last 2 weeks of flower to finish her off. With more distance between the board and canopy you should see better results.


have you ever measured lux or ppfd at your canopy?


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## VincenzioVonHook (Sep 22, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Not sure if you're still around these days but I've got some info that may help from my last grow after converting to all LED. I ran full power from the middle of week 3 in flower and fried up some leaves pretty good. Prior to that I had the power at 50% and I don't think the canopy could have looked any healthier. The power increase actually hurt my plants because they didn't need it at that phase of growth. After flower set was complete and they began the thickening stage around the middle of week 4 I juiced all the lights up to full power without a problem. The plants took it and the flowers developed nicely without producing any more damage to the foliage. I plan to run the lights at 50% until the middle of week 4 next cycle. I'll increase to 75% for a few days then to 100% for the remainder of the flower cycle. It seems like once the flowers go into thickening stage the plant can take a lot more light than when flower set is still unfolding.
> 
> That sf2000 kicks out a lot of light. 14" is pretty close for one of those rigs even at 55% power. They also emit a lot of heat due to how tightly the diodes are packed together on those boards. Heavy light intensity coupled with a high amount of heat output close to the canopy is a recipe for unhappy foliage. Even in the flower room my boards are 36" or so from the canopy. Any closer would just fry my leaves. In a nutshell I'd recommend running the board at a much higher distance. Week 4 or so crank up the power to maximize flower production after your flower set is over. Drop the board close to the canopy in the last 2 weeks of flower to finish her off. With more distance between the board and canopy you should see better results.


I've got a 240w quantum board here with lm301b diodes and a Meanwell driver. Puts out more light than an SF2000. Have had no problems around 12-16" away from the plants. At 36" from the plants, Im only getting 480umol/s in the hot spot, and 190umol/s at the edges in a 4x2. 

The plants ended up 10" from the board for a week Until I got a 200cm tall tent, and then it sat at 20" from the canopy, 20hrs a day for the next 6 weeks. I doubt an SF2000 will burn anything at 36" or under, unless you have extremely intolerant plants. My current seedling would be getting more ppfd than your flowering plants if you are running an sf2000 36" away from a flowering canopy.


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## Hobbitgoblin (Sep 22, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I took the plunge 3 days ago and transitioned my entire garden over to jack's 5-12-26 from GH's maxi grow / bloom, and all of the plants look fantastic at 647-675PPM! That's pretty incredible to me, and explains why my jack's grown flowers taste and burn better. I have to feed GH's maxi grow / bloom at 775-825PPM to prevent deficiencies. Jack's gets the job done at nearly 200PPM less. The plants are growing and are as happy as they can be with significantly less fertilizer input, so the plants are absorbing lower levels of elements and I believe this is directly related to flavor and burn qualities.
> 
> We've all smoked one of those fertilizer over loaded hydro flowers that scorch your throat and lungs. They often burn poorly, but visually appear like any other high quality flower. I believe it's the plant simply absorbing too many elements. Those elements accumulate in the plant's tissue. Flowers for instance, right? Who on earth wants an excessive amount of phosphorous or potassium in their flowers? P&K loaded flowers look great. It's all downhill from there. The flowers taste terrible, and they burn poorly due to the excess elements present in the plant tissue. That problem doesn't occur with jack's. I'm excited to post my post harvest quality report on the latest jack's grown flowers in the near future. Anyone else notice their flowers taste better with jack's versus other fertilizers that require much higher PPM's to satisfy the plant's needs?
> 
> Lights out at the moment. I'll snap pics and post them later tonight. I hate when I see a thread like this and the OP doesn't post pics. Just pisses me off


WAIT! WHAT THE FUCK!! "just switched 3 days ago" but plants burn and taste better? 3 days to grow dry and smoke????


----------



## jonnynobody (Sep 23, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> have you ever measured lux or ppfd at your canopy?


I'll measure lux tonight. I did it once a ways back but I can't remember the number it spit out. Lights on at 9. I'll snap a few pics, get a lux reading, and report back. I'd love a ppfd meter but my god those things are expensive.


----------



## rkymtnman (Sep 23, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I'll measure lux tonight. I did it once a ways back but I can't remember the number it spit out. Lights on at 9. I'll snap a few pics, get a lux reading, and report back. I'd love a ppfd meter but my god those things are expensive.


yeah, i bought a cheap lux meter instead. figure that's close enough for me.


----------



## jonnynobody (Sep 23, 2021)

Hobbitgoblin said:


> WAIT! WHAT THE FUCK!! "just switched 3 days ago" but plants burn and taste better? 3 days to grow dry and smoke????


I'm pretty sure I mentioned around page 2 or 3 of this thread that I grew with jack's several years ago. Both the flavor and burn quality was exponentially better than GH's maxi line that I experimented with after trying the jack's. I thought maybe I was missing something by not using the cannabis specific fertilizer and figured I'd give it a shot. I was promised bigger yields and never considered it may affect the flavor of the harvested bud. I ran the maxi for quite a while thinking something else was causing the problem. I attempted all sorts of fixes. Adding silica. Eliminating silica. Adding calmag. No calmag. After being frustrated with my inability to solve the problem I thought back to the last time I was satisfied with the flavor and burn qualities of my flower. It was with jack's 321. I've gone through 2 flower cycles with jack's now plus the one I did 3 years ago and it's still performing nicely. I'm working on my curing / drying process to improve the flavor even more. I'm also looking forward to my soil plant experiment. To this day 13 years after starting growing my first 4 or 5 soil grows produced the best flavor and quality I've ever grown. I'm trying out 3 or 4 soil plants my next flower cycle and if I reproduce the same results I had 13 years ago I'm switching the whole garden over to soil. I'll still use jack's of course. Why use anything else?


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## PJ Diaz (Sep 23, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I'm pretty sure I mentioned around page 2 or 3 of this thread that I grew with jack's several years ago. Both the flavor and burn quality was exponentially better than GH's maxi line that I experimented with after trying the jack's. I thought maybe I was missing something by not using the cannabis specific fertilizer and figured I'd give it a shot. I was promised bigger yields and never considered it may affect the flavor of the harvested bud. I ran the maxi for quite a while thinking something else was causing the problem. I attempted all sorts of fixes. Adding silica. Eliminating silica. Adding calmag. No calmag. After being frustrated with my inability to solve the problem I thought back to the last time I was satisfied with the flavor and burn qualities of my flower. It was with jack's 321. I've gone through 2 flower cycles with jack's now plus the one I did 3 years ago and it's still performing nicely. I'm working on my curing / drying process to improve the flavor even more. I'm also looking forward to my soil plant experiment. To this day 13 years after starting growing my first 4 or 5 soil grows produced the best flavor and quality I've ever grown. I'm trying out 3 or 4 soil plants my next flower cycle and if I reproduce the same results I had 13 years ago I'm switching the whole garden over to soil. I'll still use jack's of course. Why use anything else?


IMO, if you add fulvic acid and kelp extract to your Jacks hydro feed you will get much closer to that "soil grown flavor" you are seeking, without having to grow in soil.


----------



## .Smoke (Sep 24, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I'll measure lux tonight. I did it once a ways back but I can't remember the number it spit out. Lights on at 9. I'll snap a few pics, get a lux reading, and report back. I'd love a ppfd meter but my god those things are expensive.


Interested to see what your Lux reading is. Did you get a chance to measure?


----------



## Rurumo (Sep 24, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> IMO, if you add fulvic acid and kelp extract to your Jacks hydro feed you will get much closer to that "soil grown flavor" you are seeking, without having to grow in soil.


Totally agree, and I'd add amino acids to that list as well, except with Jack's you already have plenty of nitrogen so you wouldn't want to add more. I'll be growing with Megacrop 2 part for my next grow, and will see if I get the same effect with foliar soy hydrolysate. Studies across a wide variety of food crops show an increase in yield with foliar aminos, but in the past, using Maxibloom I always just added it to my nutrient solution. Fulvic acid and kelp extract are amazing, I'm not sure I'd still be growing with inorganic nutes without them.


----------



## jonnynobody (Sep 24, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> Interested to see what your Lux reading is. Did you get a chance to measure?


Yesterday was a train wreck. I finally got my 2 new 460w lights from alibaba after a 60+ day wait. I was in the middle of clipping buds off the branches which is a really tedious awful process. It's about as bad as trimming itself. I only made it through 3 of 10 containers. At lights on I barely walked my lazy ass downstairs to check temps. Today is a better day. I'll get the reading tonight from the 660's, 450w spider farmer, 100w COB's, and my new 460w lights. Gimme a few minutes. I'll grab a lux reading on the 460's real quick from 36" away and 12" away.


----------



## jonnynobody (Sep 24, 2021)

Rurumo said:


> Totally agree, and I'd add amino acids to that list as well, except with Jack's you already have plenty of nitrogen so you wouldn't want to add more. I'll be growing with Megacrop 2 part for my next grow, and will see if I get the same effect with foliar soy hydrolysate. Studies across a wide variety of food crops show an increase in yield with foliar aminos, but in the past, using Maxibloom I always just added it to my nutrient solution. Fulvic acid and kelp extract are amazing, I'm not sure I'd still be growing with inorganic nutes without them.


I've got kelp on hand in the form of floralicous plus but I'll need to grab some fulvic. I haven't been using the floralicous for some reason. Time to get it back in rotation. Thanks for the recommendation.


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## jonnynobody (Sep 24, 2021)

460w qb:
Lux @12" 32,767
Lux @ 24" 32,767
Lux @ 36" 21,577


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## PJ Diaz (Sep 24, 2021)

Rurumo said:


> Totally agree, and I'd add amino acids to that list as well, except with Jack's you already have plenty of nitrogen so you wouldn't want to add more. I'll be growing with Megacrop 2 part for my next grow, and will see if I get the same effect with foliar soy hydrolysate. Studies across a wide variety of food crops show an increase in yield with foliar aminos, but in the past, using Maxibloom I always just added it to my nutrient solution. Fulvic acid and kelp extract are amazing, I'm not sure I'd still be growing with inorganic nutes without them.


Kelp contains many amino acids already, including significant levels of tryptophan, threonine, isoleucine, methionine, cysteine and valine. Kelp also contains lower levels of leucine, lysine, phenylalanine, tyrosine and histidine.


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## PJ Diaz (Sep 24, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I've got kelp on hand in the form of floralicous plus but I'll need to grab some fulvic. I haven't been using the floralicous for some reason. Time to get it back in rotation. Thanks for the recommendation.


This is the best Kelp product I've used, and I've tried many: 








CleanKelp | Organic


The secret of the sea. Bloom City’s CleanKelp formulation contains seven species of wild harvested sea plants that are loaded with vitamins, minerals, and naturally occurring plant growth nutrients. Improves root and stem growth and relieves heat and drought stress to ensure plants grow...




www.bloom.city





I've been using this for fulvic for a while, and been quite happy with it:








Homepage


Mr. Fulvic is an organic amendment for plant growth that increases nutrient absorption and creates healthier and stronger plants.




www.mrfulvic.com


----------



## rkymtnman (Sep 24, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> Kelp contains many amino acids already, including significant levels of tryptophan, threonine, isoleucine, methionine, cysteine and valine. Kelp also contains lower levels of leucine, lysine, phenylalanine, tyrosine and histidine.


i'm using that Mr Fulvic you recommended this grow and skipping kelp. also using Si derived from silicon dioxide, not potassium silicate too (from cutting edge solutions)


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## PJ Diaz (Sep 24, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i'm using that Mr Fulvic you recommended this grow and skipping kelp. also using Si derived from silicon dioxide, not potassium silicate too (from cutting edge solutions)


I will never skip kelp. I've used kelp for over 25 years. It's an old habit that I will never give up. I learned of it's benefits very early on. It also has natural growth hormones, as kelp can grow up to one linear foot a day in the wild. I'm pretty convinced that kelp one of the main reasons that my hydro tastes so good.


----------



## Snowback (Sep 24, 2021)

Rurumo said:


> Totally agree, and I'd add amino acids to that list as well, except with Jack's you already have plenty of nitrogen so you wouldn't want to add more. I'll be growing with Megacrop 2 part for my next grow, and will see if I get the same effect with foliar soy hydrolysate. Studies across a wide variety of food crops show an increase in yield with foliar aminos, but in the past, using Maxibloom I always just added it to my nutrient solution. Fulvic acid and kelp extract are amazing, I'm not sure I'd still be growing with inorganic nutes without them.


In my experience, the Megacrop 2 part outperforms the Jack's 2 part, but to be fair, I have much more experience with the Megacrop than I do with the Jack's.


----------



## Treesomewanted77 (Sep 25, 2021)

Snowback said:


> In my experience, the Megacrop 2 part outperforms the Jack's 2 part, but to be fair, I have much more experience with the Megacrop than I do with the Jack's.


If I may ask what is the dosage you use of mega crop for seedlings and clones and on up through veg? I recently got the mega crop but haven’t started using it yet as I still have a bunch of others to use up before switching over. I got the mega crop 2 part with epsom. Also do you use anything with the mega crop? Thank you


----------



## Rurumo (Sep 25, 2021)

Treesomewanted77 said:


> If I may ask what is the dosage you use of mega crop for seedlings and clones and on up through veg? I recently got the mega crop but haven’t started using it yet as I still have a bunch of others to use up before switching over. I got the mega crop 2 part with epsom. Also do you use anything with the mega crop? Thank you


The nice thing about Megacrop is their recommended amounts on the back are not a bad place to start-they make it a lot more approachable than Jack's does. What is the PPM of your water btw? A great thing to do, to understand the nutrients better, is go to the Megacrop website, go to the nutrient calculator for "single tank res", put in "1 gallon" as the amount, and then plug in the numbers directly from the bag. From memory, I think they recommend 1.5 g of part A, and 2.5 g of part B. Put those in the calculator and you can see the PPMs, and nutrient breakdown. Also, all of the threads here on Jack's A & B apply to the Megacrop two part-they are identical for the purpose of the nutrient calculator. So if you see people here who know what they are doing recommending certain amounts of part A and B, you can put those in the calculator and see what the PPMs are as well as the NPK, Calcium/Mag, etc. For seedlings, I start pretty low 200-300 ppms, then increase as the plant size and root ball increases up to about 600 ppms at the beginning of flower. Often I will need to go higher depending on what the leaves look like, but it's strain dependent. When you first get started, start low and watch the leaves-you're basically trying to grow beautiful leaves. If the tips burn or curl, back it off. If they are too light colored, increase a little. The calculator helps a lot getting started. Good luck!


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## Rurumo (Sep 25, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> This is the best Kelp product I've used, and I've tried many:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love Mr. Fulvic too. For kelp, I went through the heavy metal database and pretty much tried every product that had no detectable heavy metals. I never tried the CleanKelp, just because their company wasn't listed in the database, but they sent me documentation from their end. After trying a bunch of them, I ended up really liking the Age Old Kelp-it's thick, potent, and reeks of kelp. I'll give CleanKelp a try next time. For Amino Acids, any of the 14-0-0 soy hydrolysate products are most likely using the same stuff. Down to Earth Agmino is a good example. I've totally replaced Fish Hydrolysate with it indoors and in teas, it really does feed the soil like nothing else.


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## jonnynobody (Sep 25, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> 460w qb:
> Lux @12" 32,767
> Lux @ 24" 32,767
> Lux @ 36" 21,577


I was wondering why I got the same lux reading at 12" and 24". The stupid lux app only goes up to 32,767. When I tried to get a lux reading on the 660w boards it maxed at 32,767. Looks like I need to order a lux meter


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## Treesomewanted77 (Sep 25, 2021)

Copy that, thank you I will check out the calculator and see what it says. My tap water is kind of horrible like 300ppm but I can get 27ppm water out of the spring on the side of the road if needed and was using that till I started using 19-4-23 tap water blend but almost out of that and wanted to give something else a try.


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## Rurumo (Sep 25, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I was wondering why I got the same lux reading at 12" and 24". The stupid lux app only goes up to 32,767. When I tried to get a lux reading on the 660w boards it maxed at 32,767. Looks like I need to order a lux meter


I'm in the same boat. My app doesn't seem accurate at all and I'd LOVE to know these things.


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## rkymtnman (Sep 25, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I was wondering why I got the same lux reading at 12" and 24". The stupid lux app only goes up to 32,767. When I tried to get a lux reading on the 660w boards it maxed at 32,767. Looks like I need to order a lux meter


i got mine off ebay for like 20 bucks i think. seems to work OK


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## .Smoke (Sep 25, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I was wondering why I got the same lux reading at 12" and 24". The stupid lux app only goes up to 32,767. When I tried to get a lux reading on the 660w boards it maxed at 32,767. Looks like I need to order a lux meter





rkymtnman said:


> i got mine off ebay for like 20 bucks i think. seems to work OK


Same here. 
Got mine from Amazon $30 after watching this from Migrow...





My 220w board reads..
12"- 45000
24"- 18000
36"- 8000


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## PJ Diaz (Sep 25, 2021)

Rurumo said:


> I love Mr. Fulvic too. For kelp, I went through the heavy metal database and pretty much tried every product that had no detectable heavy metals. I never tried the CleanKelp, just because their company wasn't listed in the database, but they sent me documentation from their end. After trying a bunch of them, I ended up really liking the Age Old Kelp-it's thick, potent, and reeks of kelp. I'll give CleanKelp a try next time. For Amino Acids, any of the 14-0-0 soy hydrolysate products are most likely using the same stuff. Down to Earth Agmino is a good example. I've totally replaced Fish Hydrolysate with it indoors and in teas, it really does feed the soil like nothing else.


The reason I like the CleanKelp product is that it really is clean. It's the first kelp product I've used which isn't black There are no particulates which settle out or anything like that, and it never clogs emitters. When I first came across the product on the internet, I wasn't sure if it would live up to it's claims, but a gallon bottle is cheap enough, so decided to give it a try. Love the stuff. I need to order a fresh gallon soon. They also use multiple species of kelp in their product.


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## PJ Diaz (Sep 25, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I was wondering why I got the same lux reading at 12" and 24". The stupid lux app only goes up to 32,767. When I tried to get a lux reading on the 660w boards it maxed at 32,767. Looks like I need to order a lux meter


I believe that has to do with the camera sensor on your phone. Some sensors will go higher than others. I have the same issue with my phone.


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## rkymtnman (Sep 25, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> The reason I like the CleanKelp product is that it really is clean. It's the first kelp product I've used which isn't black


lol. that's why i stopped using kelp this run. i wiped the bottom of my res and it was completely black from the kelp i was using. 

maybe i'll give that brand a shot. 

this mr fulvic mixes up nice by the way. 1mL per gallon is crazy cheap for it too.


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## rkymtnman (Sep 25, 2021)

i'm gonna give this a read later:



https://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/tgtre/article/2001aug6.pdf


----------



## MidnightSun72 (Sep 25, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i'm gonna give this a read later:
> 
> 
> 
> https://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/tgtre/article/2001aug6.pdf


Looks like a stimulating read.


----------



## PJ Diaz (Sep 25, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> lol. that's why i stopped using kelp this run. i wiped the bottom of my res and it was completely black from the kelp i was using.


Yeah, I hate that too. I think you will be real happy if you end up trying CleanKelp.


----------



## Snowback (Sep 25, 2021)

Treesomewanted77 said:


> If I may ask what is the dosage you use of mega crop for seedlings and clones and on up through veg? I recently got the mega crop but haven’t started using it yet as I still have a bunch of others to use up before switching over. I got the mega crop 2 part with epsom. Also do you use anything with the mega crop? Thank you


Rurumo had some good advice. As for me, I most often just use cheap bargain fert for my young seedlings/cuttings at really low EC (in Pro-Mix) so I can't offer you much advice there. When they get older, I usually use Mega Crop at around the typical 2:3 ratio, with 2 parts calcium nitrate to 3 parts "Mega Crop A", maxing out at about 1.4 EC. It's already fairly high in magnesium sulfate, so if you do want to add the Epsom, go lightly at first. I have done it at .5 gram/gallon to 1 gram/gallon. I don't think it's needed though, tbh... I'm just a fan of super dark green leaves.

You mentioned that your water ppm is 300. Do you know what percentage of that is calcium? Because if that's mostly calcium, you might find good results with just using the Mega Crop A all by itself, without adding any calcium nitrate at all. The amount of nitrogen in the Mega Crop A is adequate for most situations (in Pro-Mix, with average light conditions), so the addition of calcium nitrate is mostly for the presence of the calcium. If you start getting spots or limp leaves, you could always add it back in. This advice might not apply to coco, DWC, etc... 

If all of this is too much to bother, just try using it the same way that you would use your Jack's.


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## jonnynobody (Sep 26, 2021)

@rkymtnman how's the flower flavor in DWC? I've only ever ran soil and hempy buckets. I've got 4 plants going in coco to see how the flavor and growth rate turns out. So far they're looking fantastic. Giving another crack a soil this time too. Dam mites got my last soil lady.


----------



## Treesomewanted77 (Sep 26, 2021)

Snowback said:


> Rurumo had some good advice. As for me, I most often just use cheap bargain fert for my young seedlings/cuttings at really low EC (in Pro-Mix) so I can't offer you much advice there. When they get older, I usually use Mega Crop at around the typical 2:3 ratio, with 2 parts calcium nitrate to 3 parts "Mega Crop A", maxing out at about 1.4 EC. It's already fairly high in magnesium sulfate, so if you do want to add the Epsom, go lightly at first. I have done it at .5 gram/gallon to 1 gram/gallon. I don't think it's needed though, tbh... I'm just a fan of super dark green leaves.
> 
> You mentioned that your water ppm is 300. Do you know what percentage of that is calcium? Because if that's mostly calcium, you might find good results with just using the Mega Crop A all by itself, without adding any calcium nitrate at all. The amount of nitrogen in the Mega Crop A is adequate for most situations (in Pro-Mix, with average light conditions), so the addition of calcium nitrate is mostly for the presence of the calcium. If you start getting spots or limp leaves, you could always add it back in. This advice might not apply to coco, DWC, etc...
> 
> If all of this is too much to bother, just try using it the same way that you would use your Jack's.


I don’t know exactly how much is calcium but I believe it’s pretty high in calcium because we get a lot of calcium scale in the hot water heater and faucets I have to clean them with CLR fairly often so I will try a separate clone in coco with just part A and see how it reacts to it.


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## rkymtnman (Sep 26, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> how's the flower flavor in DWC?


i would say it depends on strain and what additives you use. i love Sulfur. also think Kelp helps as well. use Si and Fulvic but not sure how much that affects smell and taste.


----------



## Snowback (Sep 27, 2021)

Treesomewanted77 said:


> I don’t know exactly how much is calcium but I believe it’s pretty high in calcium because we get a lot of calcium scale in the hot water heater and faucets I have to clean them with CLR fairly often so I will try a separate clone in coco with just part A and see how it reacts to it.


That sounds like a good experiment. It could end up saving you some money if it works, plus too much calcium can be antagonistic to many other elements.


----------



## Treesomewanted77 (Sep 27, 2021)

Snowback said:


> That sounds like a good experiment. It could end up saving you some money if it works, plus too much calcium can be antagonistic to many other elements.


I have 4 clones in Coco 2-OG Gelatos & 2-Gold Leaf and all 4 are same age and from same mothers so I will do 1 of each strain with just mega crop A and the others with both and see the difference between them. Hopefully I can get away with just the part A and save a bunch of cabbage each grow


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 27, 2021)

Treesomewanted77 said:


> I have 4 clones in Coco 2-OG Gelatos & 2-Gold Leaf and all 4 are same age and from same mothers so I will do 1 of each strain with just mega crop A and the others with both and see the difference between them. Hopefully I can get away with just the part A and save a bunch of cabbage each grow


Calcium nitrate is cheap, bro.


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## Treesomewanted77 (Sep 28, 2021)

ttystikk said:


> Calcium nitrate is cheap, bro.


Yeah 50 bucks for 25lbs on Amazon for the mega crop Calnit but I’m sure there is other options out there


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## PJ Diaz (Sep 28, 2021)

Treesomewanted77 said:


> Yeah 50 bucks for 25lbs on Amazon for the mega crop Calnit but I’m sure there is other options out there


I just buy the cheap hardware store stuff.


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## ttystikk (Sep 28, 2021)

Treesomewanted77 said:


> Yeah 50 bucks for 25lbs on Amazon for the mega crop Calnit but I’m sure there is other options out there


Wow that's close to 4x what I paid. Might be supply issues or something.

In either case, it's orders of magnitude cheaper than water bottles.


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## TintEastwood (Sep 28, 2021)

Good online salt store.






Yara Liva CalciNit and Haifa Cal PRIME hydroponic grade fertilizer


Custom Hydro has the best selection and prices on PURE calcium nitrate fertilizer. Inventory is in stock, fast shipping and order fulfillment. YaraLiva calcinit and Haifa Cal Prime calcium nitrate,sold in one and four pound plastic jars, 20 and 40 pound plastic buckets and 50 pound bags. Fast...



customhydronutrients.com


----------



## Treesomewanted77 (Sep 28, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> Good online salt store.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you very much, that place is way cheaper even on the small 4lb bags and more so on the bulk bags.


----------



## TintEastwood (Sep 28, 2021)

Treesomewanted77 said:


> Thank you very much, that place is way cheaper even on the small 4lb bags and more so on the bulk bags.




Grams per Gallon. PPM


----------



## .Smoke (Sep 30, 2021)

Day 18 from seed. 1.5ec Jacks 3 2 1 with r.o. water first 7 days, 2.0ec since then. Topped 4 days ago.


----------



## .Smoke (Oct 8, 2021)

8 days between pictures. 


2.0ec for the last 3 weeks.
So far so good.


----------



## .Smoke (Oct 17, 2021)

Day 1 flower


After 5 weeks veg from seed 2.0ec, I started to see a bit of tip burn

Other than that everything seems good.


----------



## jonnynobody (Oct 21, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> Day 1 flower
> View attachment 5011572
> View attachment 5011573
> After 5 weeks veg from seed 2.0ec, I started to see a bit of tip burn
> ...


After seeing your post about the bump to 2.0 ec solving your deficiency problems I thought maybe I need to adjust mine. A day or two ago I saw the tell tale sign of a calcium deficiency beginning. Tiny little dot rust spots on a few leaves. The plants also did not look as vibrant as they should. I bumped up my ppm to 865 and watered all the plants with the increased strength. That was yesterday afternoon. I checked them in the evening before lights out and they were still sickly looking, but I contributed to that by reducing the power on the lights for about 12 hours. I for a second thought it could be light burn. After the plants drooped and wilted from the reduced light power it was clear the dots had nothing to do with the lights. I increased power to 60% on all lights. This morning I went down to check 'em all out expecting the worst after the sorry sight in there from last night. To my surprise every single plant in there is back to vibrant growth with all leaves pointing to the lights. I dam near couldn't believe it.

If not for your post about getting positive results from your increase to 2.0ec I'd probably still have sickly looking plants this morning. Thanks to you I'm back on track. Your plants look fantastic! Still jealous of that auto watering system


----------



## 70's natureboy (Oct 21, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> Day 1 flower
> View attachment 5011572
> View attachment 5011573
> After 5 weeks veg from seed 2.0ec, I started to see a bit of tip burn
> ...


I like the idea of putting the rubber collars directly in the bucket lid. What happens to those rubber collars when the stalk gets big? My stalks usually end up as big as those collars.


----------



## .Smoke (Oct 21, 2021)

70's natureboy said:


> I like the idea of putting the rubber collars directly in the bucket lid. What happens to those rubber collars when the stalk gets big? My stalks usually end up as big as those collars.


They seem to just make their own space. They're inside 2" net pots. Never really noticed an issue.


----------



## .Smoke (Oct 21, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> After seeing your post about the bump to 2.0 ec solving your deficiency problems I thought maybe I need to adjust mine. A day or two ago I saw the tell tale sign of a calcium deficiency beginning. Tiny little dot rust spots on a few leaves. The plants also did not look as vibrant as they should. I bumped up my ppm to 865 and watered all the plants with the increased strength. That was yesterday afternoon. I checked them in the evening before lights out and they were still sickly looking, but I contributed to that by reducing the power on the lights for about 12 hours. I for a second thought it could be light burn. After the plants drooped and wilted from the reduced light power it was clear the dots had nothing to do with the lights. I increased power to 60% on all lights. This morning I went down to check 'em all out expecting the worst after the sorry sight in there from last night. To my surprise every single plant in there is back to vibrant growth with all leaves pointing to the lights. I dam near couldn't believe it.
> 
> If not for your post about getting positive results from your increase to 2.0ec I'd probably still have sickly looking plants this morning. Thanks to you I'm back on track. Your plants look fantastic! Still jealous of that auto watering system


I hope it works out for you.
I for one am done with Jack's.
Just a few days into flower and....



I made no changes to the feed so I'm stumped. Issues with mobile nutrients, but they're so different between the plants its hard to nail down the cause.
The tops look great still, but I don't want to push the issues any further. 

I've been doing some research and have found others say they've had the same issues with Jack's. They love it, but can never seem to get dialed in on it.

For now I'm going back to the GH trio following their new schedule @ 1.2ec with another .2ec of Calimagic. I'm going to try floating around there for now @ 1.4 total and see how things progress. Possibly bump up to 1.7 if I see issues. 

I am really frustrated though that Jack's isn't working out....
When it is working it makes some pretty plants.


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## rkymtnman (Oct 21, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> I am really frustrated though that Jack's isn't working out.


is this the 321 or the RO or Tap formula?


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## .Smoke (Oct 21, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> is this the 321 or the RO or Tap formula?


321


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## rkymtnman (Oct 21, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> 321


looks like Mg on some leaves. if you run 321 vs 3part in a nute calculator, i wonder what the ppm of Mg is in each one? 
@TintEastwood usually has all these common formulas on hand.


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## .Smoke (Oct 21, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> looks like Mg on some leaves. if you run 321 vs 3part in a nute calculator, i wonder what the ppm of Mg is in each one?
> @TintEastwood usually has all these common formulas on hand.


Yeah, I'm kind of thinking I maybe jumped the gun and could have tried raising my ph from 5.8 to around 6.2 to see if that helped.
That's one of the few things I haven't tried after trying to get Jack's to work over 3 grows now.

I may just give that a shot instead...just sucks to keep changing out a 30gal rez of RO...


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## rkymtnman (Oct 21, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> Yeah, I'm kind of thinking I maybe jumped the gun and could have tried raising my ph from 5.8 to around 6.2 to see if that helped.
> That's one of the few things I haven't tried after trying to get Jack's to work over 3 grows now.
> 
> I may just give that a shot instead...just sucks to keep changing out a 30gal rez of RO...


do you use fulvics or humics? i've used both and i've been much more "forgiving" with my pH. i'm like low 5's to mid 6's now.


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## .Smoke (Oct 21, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> do you use fulvics or humics? i've used both and i've been much more "forgiving" with my pH. i'm like low 5's to mid 6's now.


I don't use either. 
Just the 321 with Ro ph'd to 5.8. Runoff consistently comes out @ 6.2.


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## rkymtnman (Oct 21, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> I don't use either.
> Just the 321 with Ro ph'd to 5.8. Runoff consistently comes out @ 6.2.


never used the 321 so can't help much. i'm still curious about the Mg levels in each though just for shits and giggles


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## 70's natureboy (Oct 21, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> They seem to just make their own space. They're inside 2" net pots. Never really noticed an issue.
> View attachment 5014088


Cool, I'll have to give that a try. thanks


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## TintEastwood (Oct 21, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> looks like Mg on some leaves. if you run 321 vs 3part in a nute calculator, i wonder what the ppm of Mg is in each one?
> @TintEastwood usually has all these common formulas on hand.


Jacks.
My coco grows always do better with PH around 6.2.

Running 5.8 often resulted in Mg defs. I made it worse by adding more - too much- Mg.

I start with RO water.


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## jonnynobody (Oct 21, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> I for one am done with Jack's.


Same here. I'm filling my first res of flora trio tomorrow. To experiment I'll keep my other res of jack's then I'm gonna run half the garden with jack's 321 and the other half with GH flora trio for 1 res fill. If there's no difference between the jack's plants versus the gh plants I know my problems aren't related to my fertilizer. I wind burned the shit out of them with a ULV fogger that I returned. Worst thing I've done to my plants in years. Live and learn.

To be fair to jack's I had no problems with my plants last cycle at all. None. So maybe I'm being a little tough on them. I've had problems this grow cycle that had nothing to do with jack's and I think I'm just generally pissed off and jack's might possibly be my scapegoat. I wind burned my plants with a junk ULV fogger that took them a week to recover from. When they were in veg I used horticultural soap and neem oil that burned the foliage and new growth coming out for nearly a week afterwards. In the trash those bottles went. I'll run my side by side until my res is empty then I'll see if there's any difference in the lushness of the jack's plants versus the gh plants.

Switching to all LED has had a hell of a learning curve too. I've never flowered with all LED before and the last cycle was great but I ran into a few issues. I hit the plants at full blast with the lights too early while under feeding at 600ppm resulting in multiple deficiencies that had nothing to do with my fertilizer, but had a lot to do with operator error on my part. If the plants look the same after the 1 res side by side test I'll have confirmation the issues I'm having aren't fertilizer related at all.

I'll report back with results and a couple pics next week.

Edited


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## 70's natureboy (Oct 21, 2021)

WTF??? I thought it was bye bye forever? Now you're missing the simplicity of good results? Oh johnnywishywash, say it ain't so. 28 pages down the drain. I have never even tried Jacks 321 because it sounded too complicated from the start. I never want to screw around weighing nutes. Welcome back to the KISS side.


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## jonnynobody (Oct 21, 2021)

70's natureboy said:


> WTF??? I thought it was bye bye forever? Now you're missing the simplicity of good results? Oh johnnywishywash, say it ain't so. 28 pages down the drain. I have never even tried Jacks 321 because it sounded too complicated from the start. I never want to screw around weighing nutes. Welcome back to the KISS side.


Read my edit. I'll report back if the jack's is going bye bye or not. And I do miss the simplicity of my maxi bloom. It was easy.


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## TintEastwood (Oct 21, 2021)




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## jonnynobody (Oct 22, 2021)

I think I might have jumped the gun on my jack's criticism. I sprayed venerage cg last night and lowered the power on my lights. This morning they all have a lushness to them they did not have yesterday. I notice every time I spray the stuff the plants just seem to perk right up the next day. Great product. They seem to be recovering from the damage I caused beautifully. It clearly had nothing to do with the jack's in my situation. I'm only feeding 1 plant the flora trio for my experiment at this point. I'll snap some pictures. I'm pretty hard on myself so the slightest imperfection in my foliage stresses me out.


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## .Smoke (Oct 22, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I think I might have jumped the gun on my jack's criticism. I sprayed venerage cg last night and lowered the power on my lights. This morning they all have a lushness to them they did not have yesterday. I notice every time I spray the stuff the plants just seem to perk right up the next day. Great product. They seem to be recovering from the damage I caused beautifully. It clearly had nothing to do with the jack's in my situation. I'm only feeding 1 plant the flora trio for my experiment at this point. I'll snap some pictures. I'm pretty hard on myself so the slightest imperfection in my foliage stresses me out.


I raised my ph on the GH trio to 6.2 last night.
I'm seriously considering dumping the rez today and making a mix of Jack's @ 1.8ec/6.2ph and seeing what happens.

I'd be soooo happy if things cleared up.
Jack's has been easy to use and I still have another 25lbs. bag of 5-12-26 I'd like to use up.

I'll swap it out today, give it a go for a week and see what happens.


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## jonnynobody (Oct 22, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> I hope it works out for you.
> I for one am done with Jack's.
> Just a few days into flower and....
> View attachment 5014089
> ...


Is there any chance nutrient solution could have made contact with those couple of damaged leaves? The rest of them look phenomenal. Keep us posted on how things progress. I'd yank those leaves and ride out 7 days to see if it was a fluke or not. Great looking plants. Always love seeing your setup.


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## jonnynobody (Oct 22, 2021)

Pics of the whole garden after the venerate spray. Perked everything up nicely. I'll post back here in a few days with more pics to see if I got this train back on the tracks. If I can just stop spraying stupid shit on my plants. I will never use neem or hortucultural soap ever again. All those tree hugging hippie pesticides just mangled my plants. End of diatribe 

I believe there are better organic solutions that work for cannabis. Citric acid, azagaurd, venerate, and spinosad rock and are all relatively inexpensive except for azagaurd.


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## jonnynobody (Oct 22, 2021)

I can't emphasize enough how badly I fucked these little plants up. They're finally recovering from all my abuse. Kinda can't even believe it. I almost chucked em all last week. One is still real sad looking but has good new growth coming out....slowly


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## jonnynobody (Oct 23, 2021)

I just wanted to drop in to say I definitely rushed to judgment on the jack's. I needed to increase my ppm. For my situation 1.8-1.85 ec is the sweet spot. Less causes deficiencies in even modest sized plants. One of my plants was only about 3 1/2' tall. Quite bushy though and she developed beginning signs of a calcium deficiency as did several other plants due to my under feeding. I read on a jack's enthusiast thread over at icmag and got some bad info and ran with it. Many people claimed you could run 600ppm start to finish. I tried it. Ruined my last flower cycle doing it. I didn't realize the damage I was causing by unintentionally starving them until it was too late. I corrected it in week 3 of flower, but they had already been stunted and suffered some heavy foliage damage, so it definitely diminished yield. If I had just left my ec where I had been running it I wouldn't have had any issues. All plants get the same strength from clone through flower. No issues.

I'll snap some more pics later and report back. I'm a little disappointed with myself for rushing to judgment considering all the success I've had running 321 over the last few flower cycles. I hope my operator error doesn't inhibit anyone from trying jack's.

Also, I'd suggest omitting the epsom salt until flower. Jack's is loaded with mag. I noticed tip burn on vegging plants until I stopped adding the epsom to my res. As soon as I hit flower I add the epsom.


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## Cabrone (Oct 23, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Also, I'd suggest omitting the epsom salt until flower. Jack's is loaded with mag. I noticed tip burn on vegging plants until I stopped adding the epsom to my res. As soon as I hit flower I add the epsom.


I have been doing this with great success so far.


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## jonnynobody (Oct 23, 2021)

Cabrone said:


> I have been doing this with great success so far.


Typically omitting epsom salt works great for me. I recently switched to all LED and for the first time in nearly 5 years I'm seeing a mag deficiency. I added the epsom at the recommended dosage to my res. Only 2 plants are affected so far. The rest of them are fine. Hopefully this adjustment gets the train back on the tracks. As many people as are using LED these days I thought it important to share my observation hoping it may help other LED gardeners encountering the same problem.


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## RottyRzr (Oct 23, 2021)

Ive been running Jacks @ the 3-2-1 ratio on my current grow of Ethos Genetics Candy Store R1 all the way through veg and the plants look awesome. Some of the fan leaves are huge! I switched over to 12/12 a couple days ago and changed out my res to their bloom 10-30-20 and so far they still look awesome. Im really liking Jacks so far. Planning on keeping them on the bloom nutes for another week then switching back to the 5-12-26. I'll be upping the EC some once they are flowering good. I had some deficiencies last run by not upping the EC.


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## TintEastwood (Oct 23, 2021)

Here's the breakdown for
3.0-2.0-0.5
Works great for me.



Running only 1.3ec on these under cmh. Day 7.
Some pots contain Coco.
Others Promix HP.
Feeding 2x daily.

Ph 6.2
700ppm Co2




First time running this recipe during stretch.


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## jonnynobody (Oct 23, 2021)

RottyRzr said:


> Ive been running Jacks @ the 3-2-1 ratio on my current grow of Ethos Genetics Candy Store R1 all the way through veg and the plants look awesome. Some of the fan leaves are huge! I switched over to 12/12 a couple days ago and changed out my res to their bloom 10-30-20 and so far they still look awesome. Im really liking Jacks so far. Planning on keeping them on the bloom nutes for another week then switching back to the 5-12-26. I'll be upping the EC some once they are flowering good. I had some deficiencies last run by not upping the EC.


Beautifully lush plants sir. I'm glad to hear some positive feedback about the 10-30-20. I'll be trying it for the first time this cycle. It seems like the mix is perfect for that burst of new foliage and flower sites consuming a lot of N, P, and K.

I'm glad you posted your experience with the 321. I had some deficiencies last cycle too due to running at a low ppm for the first 3 weeks. This time I've gone up to 1.8-1.85 ec for a smooth run. It's good to know I'm not the only one trying to find the sweet spot on ec. I had been a big believer in not using epsom salt in veg, but this cycle with the all LED conversion I began having a mag deficiency showing on 2 plants. I'll add the epsom to the res moving forward keeping the total strength at 1.8-1.85 ec. Other than the mag deficiency the plants look great. I'll report back in a few days.

One last thing to add I just remembered. The first time I ran jack's 321 a few years back I had a mag deficiency. I started adding the epsom salt for the rest of that grow and never had an issue through harvest. Maybe my issue isn't at all tied to the LED conversion but plain old operator error not following instructions. When I started using 321 again this past year I was thinking the "less is more" is a good idea after hearing others omit the epsom with positive results. I was wrong and so were they. Don't monkey with the jack's. JR Peters recommends it for a reason


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## Cabrone (Oct 23, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Typically omitting epsom salt works great for me. I recently switched to all LED and for the first time in nearly 5 years I'm seeing a mag deficiency. I added the epsom at the recommended dosage to my res. Only 2 plants are affected so far. The rest of them are fine. Hopefully this adjustment gets the train back on the tracks. As many people as are using LED these days I thought it important to share my observation hoping it may help other LED gardeners encountering the same problem.


I'm a caveman still running MH/HPS.


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## Snowback (Oct 23, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I just wanted to drop in to say I definitely rushed to judgment on the jack's. I needed to increase my ppm. For my situation 1.8-1.85 ec is the sweet spot. Less causes deficiencies in even modest sized plants. One of my plants was only about 3 1/2' tall. Quite bushy though and she developed beginning signs of a calcium deficiency as did several other plants due to my under feeding. I read on a jack's enthusiast thread over at icmag and got some bad info and ran with it. Many people claimed you could run 600ppm start to finish. I tried it. Ruined my last flower cycle doing it. I didn't realize the damage I was causing by unintentionally starving them until it was too late. I corrected it in week 3 of flower, but they had already been stunted and suffered some heavy foliage damage, so it definitely diminished yield. If I had just left my ec where I had been running it I wouldn't have had any issues. All plants get the same strength from clone through flower. No issues.
> 
> I'll snap some more pics later and report back. I'm a little disappointed with myself for rushing to judgment considering all the success I've had running 321 over the last few flower cycles. I hope my operator error doesn't inhibit anyone from trying jack's.
> 
> Also, I'd suggest omitting the epsom salt until flower. Jack's is loaded with mag. I noticed tip burn on vegging plants until I stopped adding the epsom to my res. As soon as I hit flower I add the epsom.


So it seems like you increased the strength by about a third. Good to know. I'll be keeping an eye on my next time with Jack's. So many people, myself included, sometimes lean a little toward starving the girls because we are afraid of filling them up with too many chemicals and screwing up the finished product. But sometimes it is the opposite.


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## TintEastwood (Oct 23, 2021)

A past quote from Renfro that had me rollin...


"Every grow is different but I can't even count how many times I have seen growers that are on the weak sauce train, so worried about feeding too strong, ending up with deficiencies and all they had to do to correct it is raise the PPM."


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## dudeoflife (Oct 23, 2021)

Late to the convo. Hai!

Yeah something changed with GH Flora's formulation recently. I've used RO water, coco as the medium, and Micro + Bloom, PH always came out to about 5.8 -6.0. Talking years, here. Now, a PH of 5.2 with the last two 1 gal bottle purchases, and yellow leaves.

It was simplicity of GH that got me into using it. Now, giving it up. It feels like a breakup!


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## Snowback (Oct 23, 2021)

In my region, GH also delisted the ingredients off of the labels. They still show the minimum analysis, but not what constitutes the mix. Better alternatives to GH anyhow, even if you want basically the exact same formula. For example, Green Planet 3 part. Also cheaper.


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## dudeoflife (Oct 24, 2021)

Since my usual GH routine was shaken up with the change in formulation, I got back to busting out the measuring instruments and such and am back to mixing my own nutrients again. I'm of the mindset that you're using more than 5 products, might as well make your own nutrients.

I mix and match with other products I impulse buy at the hydro store. It works out pretty well!


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## TintEastwood (Oct 24, 2021)

I use Jacks. Have used GH also.

Recipe close to Jacks 321 elementals, using primarily GH trio.


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## dstroy (Oct 26, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> I hope it works out for you.
> I for one am done with Jack's.
> Just a few days into flower and....
> View attachment 5014089
> ...


I’m on my first ok run with jacks, I had a lot of problems too, anything above 1.4EC on jacks 321 and it started to burn my plants. I dropped it to 1.2EC jacks. I’m using tap water, it’s 0.1EC, I add 0.1EC calimagic/batch, 0.5ml of gs plant foods kelp extract/gal, and 1ml protekt/gal. I’ve got some chitosan as well, I haven’t been able to experiment with that on its own yet.

I think out of everything that kelp made the biggest difference since the stuff in it accelerates uptake.


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## dstroy (Oct 26, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I just wanted to drop in to say I definitely rushed to judgment on the jack's. I needed to increase my ppm. For my situation 1.8-1.85 ec is the sweet spot. Less causes deficiencies in even modest sized plants. One of my plants was only about 3 1/2' tall. Quite bushy though and she developed beginning signs of a calcium deficiency as did several other plants due to my under feeding. I read on a jack's enthusiast thread over at icmag and got some bad info and ran with it. Many people claimed you could run 600ppm start to finish. I tried it. Ruined my last flower cycle doing it. I didn't realize the damage I was causing by unintentionally starving them until it was too late. I corrected it in week 3 of flower, but they had already been stunted and suffered some heavy foliage damage, so it definitely diminished yield. If I had just left my ec where I had been running it I wouldn't have had any issues. All plants get the same strength from clone through flower. No issues.
> 
> I'll snap some more pics later and report back. I'm a little disappointed with myself for rushing to judgment considering all the success I've had running 321 over the last few flower cycles. I hope my operator error doesn't inhibit anyone from trying jack's.
> 
> Also, I'd suggest omitting the epsom salt until flower. Jack's is loaded with mag. I noticed tip burn on vegging plants until I stopped adding the epsom to my res. As soon as I hit flower I add the epsom.


I’ve noticed that the concentrations for jacks that people report are very different, I wonder how much of that is method, and how much of it is related to equipment calibration. Everyone’s system is different, it would be so nice if we had access to like an investigative metrology database so we could get a baseline for different manufacturers equipment and probe batches. Then it would be trivial to normalize successful recipes for your equipment and method to a known reference. It’s something I’ve been fantasizing about because it would make those periods of uncertainty shorter, because the guess you make about nutrient concentration should be closer to what it really needs to be with that extra information available.


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## .Smoke (Oct 26, 2021)

It's looking like an adjustment in Ph was all I was needing to correct the Mg issue.
No new spots or discoloration. 



This is about the worst of the tip burn I'm seeing now.

Ec is @ 1.6 right now and I'm planning to hang around there unless I see new issues arise. I'm starting to transition to the mindset that a higher EC during veg and backing off after the stretch in flower is the way to go. There are quite a few times I've run across this line of thinking and it makes some sense to me. During veg you're growing the whole plant= Lots of nutrients needed. Flower you're just making buds= less nutrients required.

I'm probably wrong, but I'm still going to give it a go and see how it shakes out.

Anyway, 
Happy to say I'm back on the Jack's gravy train and am 100% completely satisfied again @ 1.6ec/6.2Ph 9 days into 12/12.


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## thenasty1 (Oct 26, 2021)

dstroy said:


> I’ve noticed that the concentrations for jacks that people report are very different, I wonder how much of that is method, and how much of it is related to equipment calibration.


been wondering this myself. im thinking its mainly a dli thing, but that aero system (which is slick as fuck btw, props) probably has a lot to do with it too in your case. in f+d and rdwc, with 40w/sq ft of led and 45w/sq ft of de respectively, my girls are happy up to 2.6 ec and they complain if it gets below 2 after theyve got a week or two of veg on them. ive seen large scale dtw guys talking about 3+ ec which sounds nuts to me, but theyd be out of business if it didnt work. obviously those guys are running a ton of light. then i see lower light setups feeding low ec and their girls look happy as can be
to a lesser extent, it could also be the recipes people are running and the ratios being slightly out of whack. 3/2/1, 3.6/2.4/1.2 is not how the manufacturer intended it to be mixed. jacks says to run it 3.78/2.52/.98. i know its not that different but i run it as recommended (with a little extra CaNO3) and i have no issues with tox/def/lockout unless i under or overfeed


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## rkymtnman (Oct 26, 2021)

geez, we went from love to hate to re-love for both of you guys in a manner of days. lmao.


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## .Smoke (Oct 27, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> geez, we went from love to hate to re-love for both of you guys in a manner of days. lmao.


JR Peters had a PMS week...


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## jonnynobody (Oct 27, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> geez, we went from love to hate to re-love for both of you guys in a manner of days. lmao.


My problem was entirely operator error. I've been battling 2 problems neither of which had anything to do with the effectiveness of jack's. I've been battling spider mites which by itself isn't a big deal to address. I started using a wetting agent with my last several applications of different pesticides and that's when the train went off the tracks. Coco wet burned the hell out of my leaves so I returned it and tried an organic wetting agent that uses yucca. Same effect. Leaves took forever to dry and the plants just looked droopy and unhappy for 2 days after a spray. On one occasion using citric acid at a rate I had no problem with previously fried the shit out of the fresh foliage on all of my plants by adding a wetting agent. I was getting fucked up pissed off trying to figure out why this was happening even though I'm using products I've used regularly in the past with no issue. The common denominator for me has been the addition of the wetting agents. Today I eliminated the wetting agent and sprayed my usual pest killer. The flower room plants were dry in an hour. All leaves reaching for the light looking happy as they can be. I will never use a wetting agent again. The bruce banger I have is the most sensitive plant I've ever grown. She's a real pain in the dick. She took the most damage from those wetting agents. She's a sad sight to see currently. I'm giving the room another 4 weeks to straighten out preparing for flower. It's been a rough ride but the train is back on the tracks.

Now for the nutritive issue. I omitted epsom salt from the 321 recipe and that caused my mg deficiency. Between the spider mites, wetting agent damage, wind burn from the fogger, and eliminating the epsom salt I don't think I could have committed any more operator error. In short my garden problems have nothing to do with jack's. All operator error.

Since all of that was very depressing to reminisce there is a silver lining. I've finally got everything sorted out and all the mistakes I made will never be repeated again. I would recommend nobody purchase a ULV fogger. They're basically leaf blowers that emit mist. I returned it and on the recommendation of another user (wish I could remember the name to thank him/her) I purchased an electric wagner paint sprayer for $125 and it works amazingly well. I'll be mixing the jack's properly moving forward with the epsom salt. I'm not sure if it's my transition to all LED that's necessitating this or not, but the plants clearly need it so I will use it. Wetting agents will never be used in my garden again. With good application, whether it's a spray bottle, pump sprayer, or paint sprayer a wetting agent is not needed. I'd advise others to learn from my pain. I know I have.


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## rkymtnman (Oct 27, 2021)

glad to hear you got it all sorted out.

i had mites once: that sucked. that was the last clone i've ever bought from a dispensary. they were kinda cool to look at under a USB scope though: very mean looking little m'fers. lol


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## Snowback (Oct 28, 2021)

I bought a clone from a clone place once and it had a super strain of powdery mildew that was immune to all of the normal methods of getting rid of it. Like you, I never bought one again.


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## jonnynobody (Oct 28, 2021)

For shits and grins I mixed up a res of maxi with calmag 2 days ago and tested it on a few plants vs jack's. The reservoir is already contaminated and has to be dumped. Jack's res? 6 days held so far without issue. Within 5' of the maxi reservoir I could smell the aroma of sewage. I got my sniffer closer and confirmed that as the source of the smell. I looked at the res and these nasty large swampy bubbles full of god knows what take 30 seconds or so to pop. It's absolutely disgusting. With that I can't tell a difference between the jack's fed plants and the maxi fed plants. What I can tell a difference in is how stable my reservoir is. In over a year of running jack's I have never had to dump a res due to contamination or bacteria growth. 2 days with GH maxi in a res and I remember why I stopped using that trash. Endless reservoir dumps due to contamination. Experiment over. It isn't that maxi doesn't grow great plants, but it seems absolutely impossible to maintain a sterile res even with h202 added. And it's very expensive. I was looking back today at my pictures of the last 3 grows I ran with jack's start to finish. Nothing but beautiful lush growth and stable reservoirs I've held up to 10 days without issue.

+1 for jack's. GH is going in the trash. I have no interest in ever repeating this process of dumping a full reservoir again. It's too costly and time consuming. No offense to anyone using it with success. There's nothing wrong with the maxi base formula until calmag is added. Before I switched to jack's I found out the res didn't go rancid if I didn't add the calmag. Because I'm on RO water I have to add it though. I ended up always adding it on the day of watering only to the water I was using that day. With that I could hold a res longer, but slime always developed on the air stone lines and edges of the res no more than 7 days after mixing even without calmag. Anyhow I thought I'd pop in share the experience.


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## lusidghost (Oct 28, 2021)

I've been running 321 in mid veg and noticed a bit of a clawing. I'll be using Blumats once I move them into my flowering room, so I'll have to drop the EC down a little anyway. What I'm thinking is I'll be about to run it at about 75% strength all the way through. If so that will make life easy. I can just steal buckets from my flower res to feed my vegging plants.


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## jonnynobody (Oct 28, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> I've been running 321 in mid veg and noticed a bit of a clawing. I'll be using Blumats once I move them into my flowering room, so I'll have to drop the EC down a little anyway. What I'm thinking is I'll be about to run it at about 75% strength all the way through. If so that will make life easy. I can just steal buckets from my flower res to feed my vegging plants.


I use the recommended ratios of each ingredient then I dilute it down to 1.6-1.8 ec with ro water. It seems like 1.6 is the sweet spot for me. 
What ec are you running?


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## lusidghost (Oct 28, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I use the recommended ratios of each ingredient then I dilute it down to 1.6-1.8 ec with ro water. It seems like 1.6 is the sweet spot for me.
> What ec are you running?


I can't really do that currently because I have a floater valve controlling my res refills. I've always used RO, but I'm about to start using tap water because I feel it's adding complications. My tap EC is low and I'm basically just robbing calcium. 

I forget what the EC is off of the top of my head, but whatever the 321 ratio is. During my last grow, which was my first Jack's attempt, my plants started showing wicked deficiencies in late veg from running too low of an EC. I started giving them full strength and the bounced back. Then I added the Blumats later and that complicated everything. Too much water, too high of an EC. Very small pots making it even harder. 

I would say 1.2 to 1.6 would be about perfect for my setup.


----------



## icetech (Oct 28, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> I can't really do that currently because I have a floater valve controlling my res refills. I've always used RO, but I'm about to start using tap water because I feel it's adding complications. My tap EC is low and I'm basically just robbing calcium.
> 
> I forget what the EC is off of the top of my head, but whatever the 321 ratio is. During my last grow, which was my first Jack's attempt, my plants started showing wicked deficiencies in late veg from running too low of an EC. I started giving them full strength and the bounced back. Then I added the Blumats later and that complicated everything. Too much water, too high of an EC. Very small pots making it even harder.
> 
> I would say 1.2 to 1.6 would be about perfect for my setup.


Yup, keep it simple.. i have only ever used tap (mine is about 115ppm/7ph) and no issues.. why make things harder


----------



## jonnynobody (Oct 28, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> I can't really do that currently because I have a floater valve controlling my res refills. I've always used RO, but I'm about to start using tap water because I feel it's adding complications. My tap EC is low and I'm basically just robbing calcium.
> 
> I forget what the EC is off of the top of my head, but whatever the 321 ratio is. During my last grow, which was my first Jack's attempt, my plants started showing wicked deficiencies in late veg from running too low of an EC. I started giving them full strength and the bounced back. Then I added the Blumats later and that complicated everything. Too much water, too high of an EC. Very small pots making it even harder.
> 
> I would say 1.2 to 1.6 would be about perfect for my setup.


I'm glad to hear you found your sweet spot. 
Why is RO more complicated? Have you ever considered putting a simple shut off valve on the line that feeds your float valve? I think I spent $5 on a pack of 10. As soon as the res fills I mix my nutes and turn off the valve. Nothing too complicated. 

I can see why you were having deficiencies. 1.2 ec is far too low. If you're running the jack's recipe as per their instructions you're probably hitting 1100-1200 ppm. That is quite high and can fry plants quickly. As long as you feel good about the changes you make in your garden is all that matters. Keep up the good work.


----------



## lusidghost (Oct 28, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I'm glad to hear you found your sweet spot.
> Why is RO more complicated? Have you ever considered putting a simple shut off valve on the line that feeds your float valve? I think I spent $5 on a pack of 10. As soon as the res fills I mix my nutes and turn off the valve. Nothing too complicated.
> 
> I can see why you were having deficiencies. 1.2 ec is far too low. If you're running the jack's recipe as per their instructions you're probably hitting 1100-1200 ppm. That is quite high and can fry plants quickly. As long as you feel good about the changes you make in your garden is all that matters. Keep up the good work.


Nah, 321 is around 850 ppm. Somewhere in there. Blumats don’t give runoff, so you have to lower the EC.

My RO filter has a shutoff value. I use a floater valve and do the same thing with filling and mixing. I’m going to downsize my res because I’m using way less water and I imagine it will stay cooler since it isn’t sitting around for as long.

I’ve had cal/mag deficiencies if I don’t up the calcium, so pulling it out of the water and adding it back seems counterproductive. I could buy Jack’s RO formula, but my tap is like 100ppm so why bother? Plus the filters are crazy expensive. They last a long time, but still.

I’m still trying to figure it out. So far so good this grow though. As I said a little clawing, but I can fix that. Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## jonnynobody (Oct 28, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> Nah, 321 is around 850 ppm. Somewhere in there. Blumats don’t give runoff, so you have to lower the EC.
> 
> My RO filter has a shutoff value. I use a floater valve and do the same thing with filling and mixing. I’m going to downsize my res because I’m using way less water and I imagine it will stay cooler since it isn’t sitting around for as long.
> 
> ...


Nah, 321 is around 850 ppm. Somewhere in there. Blumats don’t give runoff, so you have to lower the EC.

*Just to clarify 321 per the feed schedule using the 3.6/2.4/1.1 ratios (recently modified by peters to 3.7/2.5/1.1) is 1200 ppm in both veg and flower finishing at 1050ppm with their finish formula. You may want to check your tds meter. I've had a bad meter shaft me more than once in the past. Couldn't figure out why my plants weren't growing right. Checked my tds meter against another and it was dam near 200ppm off. 


https://5efb2711-22d2-46e2-827b-2f81215c4be7.filesusr.com/ugd/3230c0_02e1e8ba47584a24b0e1f24100abb20b.pdf


*
My RO filter has a shutoff value. I use a floater valve and do the same thing with filling and mixing. I’m going to downsize my res because I’m using way less water and I imagine it will stay cooler since it isn’t sitting around for as long.

I’ve had cal/mag deficiencies if I don’t up the calcium, so pulling it out of the water and adding it back seems counterproductive. I could buy Jack’s RO formula, but my tap is like 100ppm so why bother? Plus the filters are crazy expensive. They last a long time, but still.

*As always do what is best for your situation and garden. If you're at work someday looking to kill time you may want to read further on the benefits of using RO water for your plants. It's about feeding the correct ratios of elements which RO allows you to do. Calcium nitrate or even calmag is very inexpensive and a small cost to pay for knowing your plants are getting the right nutrition. Tap water throws an unknown variable into the mix that's different depending on which part of the country / world you live in and can adversely affect your plants. Also, many municipalities are now using chloramine instead of chlorine. Chlorine can be evaporated in 24 hours in a bubbling res. Chloramine cannot. As I mentioned there are unknown variables in tap water. Different municipalities will have different calcium and magnesium ratios in the water. RO is a clean slate. 

I paid $30 for 2 75 GPD filters for my unit. Maintenance is very cheap. You do not need dupont filters. 








50/75/100/150/200/300/400 GPD Reverse Osmosis RO Membrane Water Filter Cartridge | eBay


User Friendly Design, Easy installation. It is suitable for most Reverse Osmosis Water Filtration System. pH Range of Feed water during Operation. Feed water SDI15. Residual Chlorine Concentration of Feed water.



www.ebay.com




*
I’m still trying to figure it out. So far so good this grow though. As I said a little clawing, but I can fix that. Thanks for the suggestions.

*You'll learn a little more every cycle. Keep jammin dude. *


----------



## 1212ham (Oct 28, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> It's looking like an adjustment in Ph was all I was needing to correct the Mg issue.
> No new spots or discoloration.
> View attachment 5017010
> View attachment 5017011
> ...


Thanks for the feedback on ph. I've also had some mag deficiency with Jack's 321 at 5.8-6.2 ph, going to try 6.2-6.3.

Another factor may be my fluctuating and high CO2 levels a lot of the time (up to 1400) closing the stomata, decreasing transpiration and reducing nute and magnesium uptake? I have an Autopilot CO2 logger and just ordered a cheap monitor to move around the house and figure things out. Also got rid of the old gas stove with pilot lights.


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 28, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> What ec are you running?


i feed twice a day now in dwc at 0.5 +0.2 well water.


----------



## jonnynobody (Oct 28, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i feed twice a day now in dwc at 0.5 +0.2 well water.


I remember you mentioning that before. I'll never understand that.


----------



## jonnynobody (Oct 28, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i feed twice a day now in dwc at 0.5 +0.2 well water.


I've never done DWC so lemme bend your brain for a second. I've understood DWC to mean you fill a res with water, add your nutes, PH, top off with water each day and swap it out once a week. Am I wrong here? In your case you would constantly be adding additional fertilizer each day which makes a bit more sense to me as to how this would work. So you're adding .5 ec each day + .2 well water. When you mix a fresh bucket what is your ec?


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 28, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I remember you mentioning that before. I'll never understand that.


how do you do your res? do you start at 1.6 and then let it drop? or do you do addbacks to keep it at constant EC?

and one thing you have to consider is i'm at 8800 ft too.


----------



## jonnynobody (Oct 28, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> how do you do your res? do you start at 1.6 and then let it drop? or do you do addbacks to keep it at constant EC?
> 
> and one thing you have to consider is i'm at 8800 ft too.


I hand water drain to waste so when I mix a res at 1.6 ec it stays at 1.6 ec until it's empty. 8800ft? Good god man. How's the snowfall up there?


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 28, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I've never done DWC so lemme bend your brain for a second. I've understood DWC to mean you fill a res with water, add your nutes, PH, top off with water each day and swap it out once a week. Am I wrong here? In your case you would constantly be adding additional fertilizer each day which makes a bit more sense to me as to how this would work. So you're adding .5 ec each day + .2 well water. When you mix a fresh bucket what is your ec?


so i use GH waterfarms (basically a 2 gal self contained rdwc/dwc). they have a sight tube on the side and if you cut that at the water level you want, it becomes the drain. i was feeding 10 minutes 1x a day but i noticed they were really low so i bumped it up to 2x a day for 10minutes. doing some experimenting i found that plants really didn't eat much more that 0.5 per day anyways so why feed them more than they could eat? if that makes sense


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 28, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I hand water drain to waste so when I mix a res at 1.6 ec it stays at 1.6 ec until it's empty. 8800ft? Good god man. How's the snowfall up there?


gotcha. have you ever measured your runoff ? i'd be curious what it is. 

we get a fair amount but it melts really fast. we have over 300 days of sun here.


----------



## jonnynobody (Oct 28, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> so i use GH waterfarms (basically a 2 gal self contained rdwc/dwc). they have a sight tube on the side and if you cut that at the water level you want, it becomes the drain. i was feeding 10 minutes 1x a day but i noticed they were really low so i bumped it up to 2x a day for 10minutes. doing some experimenting i found that plants really didn't eat much more that 0.5 per day anyways so why feed them more than they could eat? if that makes sense


Man I'd love to have a waterfarm setup. It's gotta be easier than siphoning out saucers every time you have to water. That makes perfect sense. As long as the plants are happy there's no reason to increase the ec. Growers that run ridiculously high ec's usually have horrible tasting flower when it's all said and done. From my understanding a high ec causes the plants to store excess elements in the plant tissue (8th grade biology). Excess P&K in harvested flower is not an enjoyable experience at all. I bet the flavor of your buds are stellar. When I see growers running 2.0ec and wonder why their leaves are crispy I just shake my head


----------



## jonnynobody (Oct 28, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> gotcha. have you ever measured your runoff ? i'd be curious what it is.
> 
> we get a fair amount but it melts really fast. we have over 300 days of sun here.


Runoff is usually 50-100ppm above what goes in. I run a couple gallons of RO water through each one at the veg to flower transition and once more around week 4 of flower just to keep the medium from accumulating too much crap.


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 28, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Man I'd love to have a waterfarm setup. It's gotta be easier than siphoning out saucers every time you have to water. That makes perfect sense. As long as the plants are happy there's no reason to increase the ec. Growers that run ridiculously high ec's usually have horrible tasting flower when it's all said and done. From my understanding a high ec causes the plants to store excess elements in the plant tissue (8th grade biology). Excess P&K in harvested flower is not an enjoyable experience at all. I bet the flavor of your buds are stellar. When I see growers running 2.0ec and wonder why their leaves are crispy I just shake my head


i also use fulvic acid which i think helps me run a lower EC too. it helps nute absorption 

i have a drain too that i hooked up to each waterfarm to so all the runoff goes away nice and easy.


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 28, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Runoff is usually 50-100ppm above what goes in. I run a couple gallons of RO water through each one at the veg to flower transition and once more around week 4 of flower just to keep the medium from accumulating too much crap.


i tried fabric pots with coco DTW and i kinda scratched my head and said "why cant i run a dwc the same way?" and it ended up working.


----------



## Milky Weed (Oct 28, 2021)

Im working on optimizing my peat DTW with mixing jacks 20-10-20 pro peat lite and jacks 7-15-35 finisher. i have been feeding them pretty light at around 300ppm of jacks total, im going to up it and switch over to more 7-15-35 in the ratio. probably shoot for 500-600ppm total of jacks. they are also in cloth pots. 5 gal


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## lusidghost (Oct 28, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Nah, 321 is around 850 ppm. Somewhere in there. Blumats don’t give runoff, so you have to lower the EC.
> 
> *Just to clarify 321 per the feed schedule using the 3.6/2.4/1.1 ratios (recently modified by peters to 3.7/2.5/1.1) is 1200 ppm in both veg and flower finishing at 1050ppm with their finish formula. You may want to check your tds meter. I've had a bad meter shaft me more than once in the past. Couldn't figure out why my plants weren't growing right. Checked my tds meter against another and it was dam near 200ppm off.
> 
> ...


I’ve been growing for around 6 years with 24 plants a time, with at least that many in my veg room. I still have a lot to learn, but I do understand RO pretty well. I have a 1000gpd tankless unit. The filters are around $300 for the set. I used to use smaller units, and progressive bought bigger ones each time.

I meant literally 321. The 3.7 ratio was too hot for my plants. I have a Bluelab truncheon meter. A lot of people do the literal 321 ratio as well. I think if my setup was different it would be fine though. Adding calnit throws off the ratio as well.

Being on this forum has changed my mind on a lot of aspects of growing. Tap water is one of them. If it doesn’t work I’ll go back to RO.

Also I don’t want to come off as too defensive. I welcome all advice, and you’ve always seemed like a knowledgeable, decent dude. This is just been something I’ve been thinking about since I stopped using Canna Coco AB around a year ago.


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 28, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> I meant literally 321. The 3.7 ratio was too hot for my plants


but if you use the 3.7 ratio, can't you just add water to get to your target EC? similar to Lucas, as long as you use 1:2 ratio, you just adjust to get the EC/ppm you want.


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## lusidghost (Oct 28, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> but if you use the 3.7 ratio, can't you just add water to get to your target EC? similar to Lucas, as long as you use 1:2 ratio, you just adjust to get the EC/ppm you want.


Nope. As I said earlier I have a floater valve controlling my refills. I do that with my vegging plants though. I guess I could stick the valve deeper into the res, but a lot of respectable growers on here have said they use the literal 321. Maybe I could top it off with tap water and kill two birds with one stone. I'll have to think about it.


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 28, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> Nope. As I said earlier I have a floater valve controlling my refills. I do that with my vegging plants though. I guess I could stick the valve deeper into the res, but a lot of respectable growers on here have said they use the literal 321. Maybe I could top it off with tap water and kill two birds with one stone. I'll have to think about it.


no, i meant let's say you mix up the 3.7 ratio in 100 gallons of water. you come out with an EC of 1.0 but you only want to feed at 0.8, you can just keep adding water until you get to 0.8. but the ratio is still intact.


----------



## lusidghost (Oct 28, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> no, i meant let's say you mix up the 3.7 ratio in 100 gallons of water. you come out with an EC of 1.0 but you only want to feed at 0.8, you can just keep adding water until you get to 0.8. but the ratio is still intact.


I get that. I meant my res has no room for adding additional water unless I stick my floater valve deeper down so that it shuts off sooner. When it gets to the top it shuts off, and there's only like 2 inches of room left. I doubt that would be enough to dilute it down to an acceptable EC.


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## jonnynobody (Oct 28, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> I’ve been growing for around 6 years with 24 plants a time, with at least that many in my veg room. I still have a lot to learn, but I do understand RO pretty well. I have a 1000gpd tankless unit. The filters are around $300 for the set. I used to use smaller units, and progressive bought bigger ones each time.
> 
> I meant literally 321. The 3.7 ratio was too hot for my plants. I have a Bluelab truncheon meter. A lot of people do the literal 321 ratio as well. I think if my setup was different it would be fine though. Adding calnit throws off the ratio as well.
> 
> ...


I’ve been growing for around 6 years with 24 plants a time, with at least that many in my veg room. I still have a lot to learn, but I do understand RO pretty well. I have a 1000gpd tankless unit. The filters are around $300 for the set. I used to use smaller units, and progressive bought bigger ones each time.

*Ayekarumba that's a starbuck's sized unit! That thing has to be the size of a small volkswagen *

I meant literally 321. The 3.7 ratio was too hot for my plants. I have a Bluelab truncheon meter. A lot of people do the literal 321 ratio as well. I think if my setup was different it would be fine though. Adding calnit throws off the ratio as well.

*Love the trunch. Damn near bullet proof and you can use it as a stir stick. Plus the flashing lights amuse me 
I have noticed a lot of people use different ratios using 321 with success. As long as it's working for you that's all that matters. *

Being on this forum has changed my mind on a lot of aspects of growing. Tap water is one of them. If it doesn’t work I’ll go back to RO.

*There are plenty of growers on RIU that use tap water without a problem. Try it out and let us know how it goes if you think about it. *

Also I don’t want to come off as too defensive. I welcome all advice, and you’ve always seemed like a knowledgeable, decent dude. This is just been something I’ve been thinking about since I stopped using Canna Coco AB around a year ago.

*You didn't come off defensive at all. This is RIU man. Everyone here loves talking shop *


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## lusidghost (Oct 28, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> *Ayekarumba that's a starbuck's sized unit! That thing has to be the size of a small volkswagen *


It definitely is big. I originally got it because I was having to fill a bunch of 5 gallon buckets and walk them through the house to my grow. All of the smaller units were painfully slow and it was easy to flood my kitchen if I wasn't constantly checking on them. Then I did some plumbing work and was able to put it into my grow room with a res and all of that. Once the filters start gunking up and/or winter rolls around they all slow down dramatically.


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## .Smoke (Oct 31, 2021)

1.6ec no bueno. Seeing deficiency again. 

I'm tired of deficiencies. 
.2Ec of Calimagic, 2.2Ec of [email protected] 6.2Ph from now on.

These are going to either grow or fry...


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## rkymtnman (Oct 31, 2021)

how about 3-2-2 instead of 321? you def need more Mg on those plants


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## TintEastwood (Oct 31, 2021)

Dang defs. I'm just starting to play with "Octopots".

I have never used hempys.
Curious how often do you feed them? Refill res? Top feed?

May be of some help.

"If you are watering once a day or once in three days the plants may be running low on a particular element in the nutrient solution, potentially for up to two days or more. You may never see a deficiency but the plant would be inhibited in its growth potential. If watering several times a day, all of the elements are renewed within a few hours so you can see these changes much quicker."

From here...


https://www.californiasubstrates.com/blog/automation-short-frequent-watering/


----------



## .Smoke (Oct 31, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> Dang defs. I'm just starting to play with "Octopots".
> 
> I have never used hempys.
> Curious how often do you feed them? Refill res? Top feed?
> ...


I top feed whenever the buckets feel light. They get filled 3/4 full with 1gal of water over 5 minutes before I let them drain. They need watering every 24hrs right now, but heavy drinkers later in flower may need fed every 12-16hr.
My 30gal rez will last at least 5 days under heavy feeding for a 4 plant setup.


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## .Smoke (Nov 2, 2021)

@jonnynobody
So, fuck the weak sauce.
Seems like the people @ Jack's know their stuff.

Mg/Cal issues are clearing up, along with the foliage getting darker instead of the lime green color I've always seen when I switched to Jack's.

Not only are these "not fried", they finally seem to be flourishing.


Yet again @Renfro's advice is proving to be true...


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## icetech (Nov 2, 2021)

Those look awesome  I am a Jacks guy also... i keep PH between 6.0-6.4 and everything stays happy.. although i'm lazy and never check EC.. i have mixed the same nutes so many times into the same amount of water it's just habit 

P.S. i use nothing but jacks from seed to chop  (cept cal/mag of course) keep it simple


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## jonnynobody (Nov 2, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> @jonnynobody
> So, fuck the weak sauce.
> Seems like the people @ Jack's know their stuff.
> View attachment 5021363
> ...


That's an impressive turn around. I'll have to try out the higher ec when I make a fresh res tomorrow. Your results are spectacular after upping the ec. Are you still adding cal mag or just running the ec recommended by jack's? I'll come back in a few days with pics to see how it worked out on my end. Beautiful work sir.


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## rkymtnman (Nov 2, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> @jonnynobody
> So, fuck the weak sauce.
> Seems like the people @ Jack's know their stuff.
> View attachment 5021363
> ...


what does you EC drop daily from 2.5ish?


----------



## .Smoke (Nov 2, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> That's an impressive turn around. I'll have to try out the higher ec when I make a fresh res tomorrow. Your results are spectacular after upping the ec. Are you still adding cal mag or just running the ec recommended by jack's? I'll come back in a few days with pics to see how it worked out on my end. Beautiful work sir.


It's .2ec Calimagic, 2.2ec Jacks. I'm pretty sure I could get away without the Calimagic but things are looking up so I don't want to change anything atm.



rkymtnman said:


> what does you EC drop daily from 2.5ish?


I run DTW hempy, so it's 2.4ec every feeding.


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## rkymtnman (Nov 2, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> I run DTW hempy, so it's 2.4ec every feeding


duh. my bad. i forgot the smoke buckets. 

man, my leaves would probably melt if i ran that high. i can get tip burn on smaller plants at like 0.3. 

weird. it's gotta be my elevation up here.


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## icetech (Nov 2, 2021)

don't drop the calmag.. it will go badly.. been there


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## RottyRzr (Nov 2, 2021)

So is that 2.4ms equal to 1200ppm? (.500)


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## .Smoke (Nov 2, 2021)

RottyRzr said:


> So is that 2.4ms equal to 1200ppm? (.500)


Yes


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## jonnynobody (Nov 2, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> Yes


I just ran through some jack's threads from a ways back and a common theme with people having issues has been low ec caused by failure to mix 321 at the ratios recommended by peters. I found quite a few that were making up their own recipes then adding 2 or 3 other products too. Then I found this thread below that was interesting. Grower switched to 321 from the flora series and mixed at the ratios as directed on the bag. His ec was 2.2 and he couldn't understand why his plants weren't burning and actually looked happier than before the switch.





Why are my plants not burning ......


I recently switched from GH Flora series to Jack's 321 after watching a GreenGeene's Garden video. If I ran GH over 1.8 EC on a 3ft plant in flower, it would start to show a little burning. With Jack's I'm starting at 2.2 EC from rooted clone and have no burn. Why is that?



www.rollitup.org





I was so stoked about your results I mixed up a gallon of 321 following the directions on the peters web site at 3.7/2.5/1.1





JACK'S 321 | jrpeters12345







www.jacksnutrients.com





My ppm hit 1000 almost on the head and the ph came out to 5.8 on the money. 1st time I haven't had to add ph up since using jack's. I watered 1 plant just so I can see how she looks in the morning. If it looks like your girls I'll mix my res tomorrow the same way and post some pics. Who'da thunk following directions would yield positive results?


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## .Smoke (Nov 3, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I just ran through some jack's threads from a ways back and a common theme with people having issues has been low ec caused by failure to mix 321 at the ratios recommended by peters. I found quite a few that were making up their own recipes then adding 2 or 3 other products too. Then I found this thread below that was interesting. Grower switched to 321 from the flora series and mixed at the ratios as directed on the bag. His ec was 2.2 and he couldn't understand why his plants weren't burning and actually looked happier than before the switch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let us know how it turns out.


----------



## Snowback (Nov 4, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I just ran through some jack's threads from a ways back and a common theme with people having issues has been low ec caused by failure to mix 321 at the ratios recommended by peters. I found quite a few that were making up their own recipes then adding 2 or 3 other products too. Then I found this thread below that was interesting. Grower switched to 321 from the flora series and mixed at the ratios as directed on the bag. His ec was 2.2 and he couldn't understand why his plants weren't burning and actually looked happier than before the switch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can't be blamed too badly. So many of the companies recommend using way too much of their products. When one like Jack's is being honest, it can come as a surprise. (Green Planet is also one of the rare honest labels. I found that out in much a similar way as .Smoke did with Jack's).


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## .Smoke (Nov 5, 2021)

A little yellowing at the tips so I dropped to 2.2Ec. Things are definitely looking better.


----------



## icetech (Nov 5, 2021)

Nice, i run around 1.8EC myself without much issue, glad you got it worked out


----------



## .Smoke (Nov 5, 2021)

icetech said:


> Nice, i run around 1.8EC myself without much issue, glad you got it worked out


Thanks.
I'm running just a bit hotter than that on the Jack's. Around 1.9-2.0. The rest is from Calimagic, but I think that deficiency has got more to do with my recent switch from HPS to Led.


----------



## Rurumo (Nov 5, 2021)

A big reason why you see such drastically different results for different people is because a lot comes down to lighting intensity and VPD. Those PPMs might be perfect for one person, but they'll fry another person's plants. I had to increase my ppms when I switched to LED, and again when I started running higher temps/rh.


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## TintEastwood (Nov 5, 2021)

Jacks 1.6ec. 3x feeds daily.
6.2ph 700ppm Co2. Low 80s F.
Under 615w CMH.
D20



And cobs.


----------



## .Smoke (Nov 5, 2021)

Rurumo said:


> A big reason why you see such drastically different results for different people is because a lot comes down to lighting intensity and VPD. Those PPMs might be perfect for one person, but they'll fry another person's plants. I had to increase my ppms when I switched to LED, and again when I started running higher temps/rh.


I think I've run into the exact same thing. With hps I ran around 75F/55RH. With these plants I've tried to keep a 1.0-1.2 vpd running 80-82F 65-70RH.


----------



## MidnightSun72 (Nov 5, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> I hope it works out for you.
> I for one am done with Jack's.
> Just a few days into flower and....
> View attachment 5014089
> ...


So I've been vegging with Jack's and the plants love it. But then keep throwing deficiencies randomly. But the new growth looks great. I don't now what to make of it. Switching to floraflex for flower and hope they straighten out. But it's strange I've been vegging them for like a month like this on Jack's and they can't get their act together. I am using the Jacks Tap. phong to 5.8. Let the res drift up to 6.2 before correcting down again. My tap water starts at 0.7 to 0.8EC and I add jacks up to 1.4EC usually. Feed every hour for 2 minutes on 1/2gph emitters. 12 times during the light cycle and then off for lights off.


----------



## .Smoke (Nov 5, 2021)

MidnightSun72 said:


> So I've been vegging with Jack's and the plants love it. But then keep throwing deficiencies randomly. But the new growth looks great. I don't now what to make of it. Switching to floraflex for flower and hope they straighten out. But it's strange I've been vegging them for like a month like this on Jack's and they can't get their act together. I am using the Jacks Tap. phong to 5.8. Let the res drift up to 6.2 before correcting down again. My tap water starts at 0.7 to 0.8EC and I add jacks up to 1.4EC usually. Feed every hour for 2 minutes on 1/2gph emitters. 12 times during the light cycle and then off for lights off.
> 
> View attachment 5023080View attachment 5023081View attachment 5023082
> View attachment 5023085


Those are the same issues I was seeing running 1.4EC with RO water. Nothing would clear up until I hit 2.0EC.

I would suggest raising your EC way up.


----------



## icetech (Nov 5, 2021)

MidnightSun72 said:


> So I've been vegging with Jack's and the plants love it. But then keep throwing deficiencies randomly. But the new growth looks great. I don't now what to make of it. Switching to floraflex for flower and hope they straighten out. But it's strange I've been vegging them for like a month like this on Jack's and they can't get their act together. I am using the Jacks Tap. phong to 5.8. Let the res drift up to 6.2 before correcting down again. My tap water starts at 0.7 to 0.8EC and I add jacks up to 1.4EC usually. Feed every hour for 2 minutes on 1/2gph emitters. 12 times during the light cycle and then off for lights off.


I had those issues when i used Jacks Tap version.. i ended up going back to normal jacks. Other have had better results though.. I would start the ph at 6.0 and let it drift to 6.5ish then adjust.

P.S. and a bit more EC at smoke said


----------



## TintEastwood (Nov 5, 2021)

For comparison



The Tap has micros, I don't list them. (No Ca, little Mg )


----------



## Cabrone (Nov 5, 2021)

https://www.jacksnutrients.com/cannabis-hemp-schedules 
The pdf file at their website shows jacks321 is,
"A" 3.79, cal-nit 2.52, epsm .99
Slight variations in information?


----------



## rkymtnman (Nov 5, 2021)

MidnightSun72 said:


> My tap water starts at 0.7 to 0.8EC


holy crap! that's high to start with. 

which did you get first: the tip burn or the Mg deficiency?


----------



## TintEastwood (Nov 5, 2021)

I think my comparison chart is based on...

3.6
2.4
1.1

Same ratio. 321
Amount depends on your target EC.


----------



## MidnightSun72 (Nov 5, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> Those are the same issues I was seeing running 1.4EC with RO water. Nothing would clear up until I hit 2.0EC.
> 
> I would suggest raising your EC way up.


I i was scared to do high EC just upped to 2.0. 


rkymtnman said:


> holy crap! that's high to start with.
> 
> which did you get first: the tip burn or the Mg deficiency?


mg deficiency every fucking time


----------



## rkymtnman (Nov 5, 2021)

MidnightSun72 said:


> mg deficiency every fucking time


have you ever tried foliar with epsom in veg? or just adding 1gram of epsom per gal?

i run the jack's RO with well water and will get a bit of Mg issue occasionally , never Ca but 1g/gal of epsom fixes it right up.


----------



## rkymtnman (Nov 5, 2021)

MidnightSun72 said:


> I i was scared to do high EC just upped to 2.0.
> 
> mg deficiency every fucking time


have you ever contacted JR peters? i sent in my water analysis to make sure nothing in my well water would interfere with either the Tap or RO formula. then they got back to me.

i wonder if something in high quantities in your source water is interfering with Mg uptake??


----------



## MidnightSun72 (Nov 5, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> have you ever contacted JR peters? i sent in my water analysis to make sure nothing in my well water would interfere with either the Tap or RO formula. then they got back to me.
> 
> i wonder if something in high quantities in your source water is interfering with Mg uptake??


Yes I do foliar Epsom. But it annoys me that I can't just get a nutrient that has everything. Lol. Also I'll try adding Epsom to res. But the tap says it has some in it.


----------



## rkymtnman (Nov 5, 2021)

MidnightSun72 said:


> Yes I do foliar Epsom. But it annoys me that I can't just get a nutrient that has everything. Lol. Also I'll try adding Epsom to res. But the tap says it has some in it.


the good thing about epsom is 1. super cheap and 2. the sulfur in it for smells in bloom. but i get your point.


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## icetech (Nov 6, 2021)

If you aren't adding mag, i would expect a mag deficiency.. Unless i missed somewhere in this thread that you are adding mag? it's early..


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## MidnightSun72 (Nov 6, 2021)

icetech said:


> If you aren't adding mag, i would expect a mag deficiency.. Unless i missed somewhere in this thread that you are adding mag? it's early..


Not adding mag. Because the tap version I use says it has some. And then I assume my tap water already has some cuz the EC is so high.


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## icetech (Nov 6, 2021)

MidnightSun72 said:


> Not adding mag. Because the tap version I use says it has some. And then I assume my tap water already has some cuz the EC is so high.


Yup... that's the same issue i had with jacks tap formula.. i even emailed jacks and they told me that it should be fine.. it wasn't  Add some mag and be happy.. That's also why i went back to normal jacks.. I will say though the tap version dissolved crazy fast.

Problem with a tap version is, everyones tap water is different, my area has some of the best tap water in the country which means it has almost all trace minerals removed, they can't make 1 version that covers everything. Epsom salts cost literally like $3 for a few pounds at any drug store...

Just to share what i do that works for me is i mix 4gal of water when i do nutes (i top my 2 plants when they get about half way down the sight tube)
To 4gal i add 14,4g of jacks, 4.8g of mag, 9-9.5g of cal.. then add some AG and PH. I don't get insane about being super accurate but get close to those numbers.. the plants will tell you what they need after a day or so. If i'm in flower and a week or 2 out i expect yellowing leaves and some scavenging of nutes by the plant but have never had anything happen that made me worry.


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## Snowback (Nov 6, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> the good thing about epsom is 1. super cheap and 2. the sulfur in it for smells in bloom. but i get your point.


It's also very forgiving. I run 2 grams per gallon on some of my mixes with no ill effects whatsoever. There is another guy in the forum who runs it much higher even than that.


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## jonnynobody (Nov 7, 2021)

I thought I'd stop by to provide an update on the foliage problems I was having. I wasn't sure at the time what was causing it so I immediately thought it was my fertilizer. It was not. I have spider mites. Bad. The problems I'm having with my plants this cycle and last had nothing to do with jack's. Russet mites are awful. Already had to toss 2 plants. Heartbreaking. Me and jack's are still getting along. A strawberry cough I've got going that gets jack's is looking phenomenal. My clones that are in a cloner with jack's right now look great. 1.8 ec for me. Fuck mites.


----------



## jonnynobody (Nov 11, 2021)

I've been rotating forbid, avid, and floramite every 3 days for about a week and a half now inspecting leaves the following day after each spray down. The plants have all been recovering nicely with new growth no longer twisting and no more rounded leaf tips. I also learned in this process if you see burned leaf edges and you know for a fact your fertilizer mix is correct you need to pull a leaf and check it under a scope. Mites love the leaf margins and veins for feeding and egg laying. I observed almost zero mite eggs in the center of very large leaves. Go to the edge and it's spider mite egg armageddon. I checked 10 or so leaves all with the same symptoms of burned edges. All had extensive mite eggs on the leaf edges. 

I tore off every single leaf with burned edges then hosed 'em down in floramite @ full strength. Full hazmat suite & respirator of course. I mop the entire basement with bleach the night of spray then I use a pesticide only mop head to bleach out the grow room floors. Soak 'er in bleach for a day afterwards. Every morning I wake up with a fear that my garden will be decimated and today I finally feel relief. Every single plant is reaching for the sky again with fresh new foliage bursting out looking healthy and lime green as it should. I tore of a couple leaves from the most troubled plants and I had to look hard to find even 2 or 3 eggs whereas before I was finding patches of 20-30 eggs. The difference is incredible. I'm continuing the same spray regimen until they go into flower in 2 weeks. Then I'll switch to spinosad and venerate every 3 days for the entire flower cycle. 

Jack's is doing fantastic! Here's a picture of the ladies back in action:

Blue dream just jack'n it:


The whole room. A much smaller flower cycle this next run. I lost a lot of plants to mites unfortunately. It's been a hell of a learning experience and it won't be something I'll let happen again:



Below are 2 strawberry cough's planted at the same time. 1 is in coco and 1 is in soil. Is that an incredible difference in size or what? I don't think I could afford to grow in soil with that kind of growth in coco. I'll be using coco exclusively moving forward:


A throwback strain here. White widow. She was badly ravaged by mites. I'm impressed she's making a rapid turn around. Super stanky strain:


Nursery a:


Some blue dream and god bud clones. I lost 5 or so cuttings to mites not to mention all 6 of my gg#4's. That shit hurt. As the plants in the flower room recover and bush out over the next 2 weeks I'll take another round of cuttings as the mite situation will be resolved by then. I'll continue treating the clones though as if they're still there. No fucking around moving forward. I'm a mite wrecking machine from now on:


Jager. She's a monster but smells like black licorice. Nice potency and very smooth but I'll be processing all of it as hash rosin:


Bruce banger. She was almost dead before the miticide treatments every 3 days. I can't believe she's still alive. Unreal man:


Blue dream bushing out loving life:


----------



## icetech (Nov 11, 2021)

They look beautiful... can't go wrong with jacks.. i would still be hanging quite a few sticky pads around those pots though.. catches any flying insects before they lay eggs.. (they are attracted to the yellow of the sticky trap)

P.S. your plants actually look better than my own. i'm a bad parent and only fix shit if it's BAD  (other than bugs.. fuck bugs)


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## jonnynobody (Nov 11, 2021)

Blue dream just jack'n it @1.6 ec:



God bud. I was ready to pull this thing today because she really took it to the teeth with mite damage. Unbelievably she's making a nice recovery. I'll see if I can keep her going. Last cycle was my first shot growing her and I really screwed the pooch. I failed to control the mite infestation before I went into flower and it horribly affected the flower development. This time around I'd like to see her reach full potential:


----------



## jonnynobody (Nov 11, 2021)

icetech said:


> They look beautiful... can't go wrong with jacks.. i would still be hanging quite a few sticky pads around those pots though.. catches any flying insects before they lay eggs.. (they are attracted to the yellow of the sticky trap)
> 
> P.S. your plants actually look better than my own. i'm a bad parent and only fix shit if it's BAD  (other than bugs.. fuck bugs)


Thanks man I really appreciate that. I'll have to order some of those sticky traps. Another weapon to add to the arsenal!


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## .Smoke (Nov 11, 2021)

Glad to see things are turning around for you. Plants are a lot better looking than a couple weeks ago.

Nice recovery.


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## Rurumo (Nov 11, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Thanks man I really appreciate that. I'll have to order some of those sticky traps. Another weapon to add to the arsenal!


Ccongrats on getting the mites under control! I'm back to spraying once per week with either citric acid/neem/pyrethrins and I can't find any sign of them. It's just scary considering their size and eggs, I just don't want them to come back when I have buds.


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## icetech (Nov 11, 2021)

Rurumo said:


> Ccongrats on getting the mites under control! I'm back to spraying once per week with either citric acid/neem/pyrethrins and I can't find any sign of them. It's just scary considering their size and eggs, I just don't want them to come back when I have buds.


 Yeah, that always bugs me when i see guys talking bout how they are close to harvest and their plants have bugs.... like.. no thanks on the smoking dead bugs..


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## jonnynobody (Nov 11, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> Glad to see things are turning around for you. Plants are a lot better looking than a couple weeks ago.
> 
> Nice recovery.


Thanks man. The last 6 months has been an eye opening experience on the importance of a strict IPM regimen. I made a pesticide log and slapped it on a clipboard. I keep track of everything I apply, when, how much, and the next day results. The last pictures I posted before the rebound were rough. I was pretty sure everything was gonna have to be thrown out. Thank god they're finally under control. In 2 weeks I hope to find zero evidence of mite eggs. While I'm sure it won't be 100% eradication I'm good with 95%. 

On the flip side of this situation I've been really wanting to clear out my strains and start with some fresh genetics. Maui and jager got the axe. I'm starting a fresh batch of girl scout cookies, critical xxl, grand daddy purple, godfather OG, northern lights, and a few others I have in the 'ol seed box. I'm gonna keep rolling with strawberry cough. She's a heavy stanker and she's bushing out like crazy. 

Since the grow is going to be smaller this flower cycle I'm going to use the 2 new 460w lights (might be 440...can't remember) as side lighting. I just don't have enough plants to use them any other way. So hopefully all the side buds on that side of the room crank out the same quality buds as the tops. Onward and forward.


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## jonnynobody (Nov 12, 2021)

Little jack's update here. I've been tearing the mites to pieces with forbid, floramite, and avid rotations. Fuck mites in their mite fucking asshole. Finally the plants are producing beautiful lime green new growth undamaged looking fantastic. I'll be discontinuing use of the poisons a week before the flower flip. That gives the plants 70-80 days to metabolize that crap from the plant tissue. Here are some pics. I'll probably let them go another 2-3 weeks in veg. Just jack'n it @1.6 ec standard recipe as its listed on the bag. Nothing more. I dilute it down to 1.6ec:



This god bud was ready to be pulled a few days ago. I do believe she's going to make it at this point. Won't be much of a pull from the harvest, but she will survive.


Blue dream


Jager


Blue dream

The arsenal. I've got a big bottle of floramite on the way. Sometimes you gotta go nuclear on them bitches


Look at that lime green deliciousness. These were about to be pulled a week ago. Just jack'n it babe


Strawberry cough. 1 in soil 1 in coco planted at the same time. I just transplanted the coco SC today because she was requiring watering every day. I hate watering every day. As soon as I did the up pot and watered her every single leaf got a 3/4 chub pointing to the sky. I can't imagine ever growing in soil after seeing the results of this experiment.


White widow. This was as bad as the god bud only a few days ago. She was planned for the chopping block too. I do believe she's going to make it now without issue. And oh man does she stink. Looking forward to seeing how she turns out when it's all over.


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## icetech (Nov 13, 2021)

When in doubt.. Jack it...


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## jonnynobody (Nov 13, 2021)

Off topic but I had to post it. The new 6 ton dabpress just arrived! I'll be processing some hash rosin tomorrow. Waiting on the filter bags and I gotta shake out some dry ice hash. Here's a pic of the unit:




Had 4 extra screws and 2 fuses and no instruction manual. I emailed the company to make sure they're just extras. I figure there are probably a couple replaceable fuses in the brain box. I tested out the plates and everything seems to be perfectly operational. 190F within about 5 minutes. Holds temp beautifully:


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## Rurumo (Nov 13, 2021)

damn, you don't mess around


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## Failmore (Nov 13, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Off topic but I had to post it. The new 6 ton dabpress just arrived! I'll be processing some hash rosin tomorrow. Waiting on the filter bags and I gotta shake out some dry ice hash. Here's a pic of the unit:
> 
> View attachment 5027912
> 
> ...


That thing looks exactly like the peice of junk I made at work. Not saying that one is junk. Just that the one I made was haha.


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## Failmore (Nov 13, 2021)

So I tried to use the finish stuff and the plants hated it. Went back to the tap formula and the love that. It also crashed my ph. Weird stuff.


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## jonnynobody (Nov 13, 2021)

Failmore said:


> That thing looks exactly like the *peice of junk I made at work*. Not saying that one is junk. Just that the one I made was haha.


Dabpress has a pretty outstanding reputation. I haven't seen a single bad review from anyone. I called their tech support line just to ask a few questions about the different models and their customer service is phenomenal. Informative and very easy to talk to unlike most other customer service A-holes you get on the phone.

There are 3 kinds of people in this world when it comes to MacGyvering shit: people that can build things, people that think they can build things, and people that need supervision to operate a toaster. I know I can't build things and don't even make the attempt. I'm the guy that needs supervision operating the toaster 

What was the issue with your home made press?


----------



## TintEastwood (Nov 13, 2021)

Failmore said:


> So I tried to use the finish stuff and the plants hated it. Went back to the tap formula and the love that. It also crashed my ph. Weird stuff.


I tried it once.
But I think I muffed up and started using it too early. Hoping it would help push trichs to start clouding etc. Ran it for 4 weeks if I remember correctly. Did not have ph problem.

If I try it again, my plan is to wait until trichs start turning milky. I'm not a flusher.


----------



## jonnynobody (Nov 13, 2021)

Failmore said:


> So I tried to use the finish stuff and the plants hated it. Went back to the tap formula and the love that. It also crashed my ph. Weird stuff.


I agree. I don't think there's any need for the finish formula.


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## lusidghost (Nov 13, 2021)

I was asking in a different thread, but didn't get much of a reply. Why does Jack's use calnit instead of calcium carbonate? Why don't they boost the nitrogen in part A and keep the calcium more isolated? That way you would be less likely have nitrogen toxicity or calcium deficiencies in the flowering cycle. Especially while using RO water and LEDs. Is there any advantage of calnit aside from cost?

Would it be a good idea to use Part A and magnesium, but sub the Part B for Calimagic or some type of calcium carbonate? I read somewhere that the plant takes and uses 80% of N during veg. Would the 5% in part A be enough during flower?


----------



## TintEastwood (Nov 13, 2021)

Of possible help.

*3. Gypsum*









Calcium Nitrate Alternatives In Hydroponic & Fertigation Systems


Calcium is very important for soil health, microbial diversity, soil structure, heavy metal protection and countless other soil properties.




cropnuts.com






"Gypsum (calcium sulfate) adds permanent hardness (calcium ions) to brewing water; 1 gram per gallon adds 62 ppm calcium, 147 ppm sulfate."








Gypsum 1 lb.


Gypsum (calcium sulfate) adds permanent hardness (calcium ions) to brewing water; 1 gram per gallon adds 62 ppm calcium, 147 ppm sulfate. Brewers that use distilled, or RO, water like to add some gypsum back into the water to give it some hardness. Gypsum can also be used to lower the pH of...




www.northernbrewer.com





I picked some up from local brew supply barn to experiment with. Potent ppm per gram.


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## cobshopgrow (Nov 13, 2021)

calcium carbonate isnt really quickly avaiable to the plants, its too big to be taken up like it is.
it also raise your PH like crazy.
calcium sulfate, gypsum is really a alternative if you want to lower your N in flower.
calcium nitrate have the advantage of beeing nitrate and not beeing ammonia nitrate also the calcium in the calcinit is quickly avaiable, its isnt a cheap fertilizer to produce as it takes a lot of electricity to do.


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## lusidghost (Nov 13, 2021)

cobshopgrow said:


> calcium carbonate isnt really quickly avaiable to the plants, its too big to be taken up like it is.
> it also raise your PH like crazy.
> calcium sulfate, gypsum is really a alternative if you want to lower your N in flower.
> calcium nitrate have the advantage of beeing nitrate and not beeing ammonia nitrate also the calcium in the calcinit is quickly avaiable, its isnt a cheap fertilizer to produce as it takes a lot of electricity to do.


Why does Calimagic use it then? It seems to be the most recommended calmag product.


----------



## Milky Weed (Nov 13, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> I tried it once.
> But I think I muffed up and started using it too early. Hoping it would help push trichs to start clouding etc. Ran it for 4 weeks if I remember correctly. Did not have ph problem.
> 
> If I try it again, my plan is to wait until trichs start turning milky. I'm not a flusher.


I think I used it too early also. Has SO MUCH K in it i cut it with more N. My leaf’s started yellowing up from lack of nitrogen.


----------



## Failmore (Nov 13, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> Dabpress has a pretty outstanding reputation. I haven't seen a single bad review from anyone. I called their tech support line just to ask a few questions about the different models and their customer service is phenomenal. Informative and very easy to talk to unlike most other customer service A-holes you get on the phone.
> 
> There are 3 kinds of people in this world when it comes to MacGyvering shit: people that can build things, people that think they can build things, and people that need supervision to operate a toaster. I know I can't build things and don't even make the attempt. I'm the guy that needs supervision operating the toaster
> 
> What was the issue with your home made press?


It was hard for me to mount the press to the bottom block and keep it solid. Did not have the correct parts for it. So I was not getting solid contact. Then when I tried to fix it I messed up the jack and gave up.


----------



## jonnynobody (Nov 13, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> I was asking in a different thread, but didn't get much of a reply. Why does Jack's use calnit instead of calcium carbonate? Why don't they boost the nitrogen in part A and keep the calcium more isolated? That way you would be less likely have nitrogen toxicity or calcium deficiencies in the flowering cycle. Especially while using RO water and LEDs. Is there any advantage of calnit aside from cost?
> 
> Would it be a good idea to use Part A and magnesium, but sub the Part B for Calimagic or some type of calcium carbonate? I read somewhere that the plant takes and uses 80% of N during veg. Would the 5% in part A be enough during flower?


I wouldn't quibble much over why one manufacturer uses calcium carbonate versus calcium nitrate. It's much ado about nothing. 
GH uses calcium nitrate in maxi grow: https://www.brewandgrow.com/gh-maxigro-22-lb-pouch.html 
And they use it in their flora series within the micro bottle: https://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/gh-gh1414-label.pdf

Like I said it's really much ado about nothing. Maybe GH gets calcium carbonate cheaper? They are a money grubbing piece of shit company. I really wouldn't read too much into it. I've never had an issue with using the standard jack's recipe as it's listed on the bag diluted to 1.6ec PH adjusted to 5.8. 

If you prefer to reduce the calcium input in the final weeks of your flower cycle you simply reduce the calcium nitrate. At the end of the flower cycle the plant isn't creating new growth of any kind. The plants are just ripening. There's no need for all that calcium and nitrogen at the end so many people do reduce in the last 2 weeks. Jack's own regimen on their feed chart suggests using the 7-15-30 finish formula for the last 2 weeks with no calcium nitrate. There are a couple approaches you can take to reduce the nitrogen input at the end of flower. 

I ran the 7-15-30 finish formula and I'm not sure what to think. I didn't notice any notable difference vs running 321 to the end. I also do not flush.


----------



## jonnynobody (Nov 13, 2021)

Failmore said:


> It was hard for me to mount the press to the bottom block and keep it solid. Did not have the correct parts for it. So I was not getting solid contact. Then when I tried to fix it I messed up the jack and gave up.


You at least made a valiant effort. That's more than most will ever do (myself included). There were some reviews I saw where people were receiving brand new presses that had fucked up plates that were uneven and wouldn't line up. This situation reminds me of the old saying about why you pay a carpenter to swing a hammer. You've got a squeaky floorboard that's driving you nuts. Carpenter shows up, scratches his head for a second, and gives a couple solid whacks with his trusty hammer to a particular board on the floor. Magically the squeak has been fixed. Carpenter looks at the customer and says, alright that'll be $150. Customer says, why would I pay that? All you did was hit a board with your hammer. I coulda done that! Carpenter smiles and says, did you know which board to whack with the hammer? That'll be $150 cash, check, or money order


----------



## Snowback (Nov 13, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> I've been rotating forbid, avid, and floramite every 3 days for about a week and a half now inspecting leaves the following day after each spray down. The plants have all been recovering nicely with new growth no longer twisting and no more rounded leaf tips. I also learned in this process if you see burned leaf edges and you know for a fact your fertilizer mix is correct you need to pull a leaf and check it under a scope. Mites love the leaf margins and veins for feeding and egg laying. I observed almost zero mite eggs in the center of very large leaves. Go to the edge and it's spider mite egg armageddon. I checked 10 or so leaves all with the same symptoms of burned edges. All had extensive mite eggs on the leaf edges.
> 
> I tore off every single leaf with burned edges then hosed 'em down in floramite @ full strength. Full hazmat suite & respirator of course. I mop the entire basement with bleach the night of spray then I use a pesticide only mop head to bleach out the grow room floors. Soak 'er in bleach for a day afterwards. Every morning I wake up with a fear that my garden will be decimated and today I finally feel relief. Every single plant is reaching for the sky again with fresh new foliage bursting out looking healthy and lime green as it should. I tore of a couple leaves from the most troubled plants and I had to look hard to find even 2 or 3 eggs whereas before I was finding patches of 20-30 eggs. The difference is incredible. I'm continuing the same spray regimen until they go into flower in 2 weeks. Then I'll switch to spinosad and venerate every 3 days for the entire flower cycle.
> 
> ...


You may already know this, but keep in mind that Avid is extremely toxic and it is also systemic.


----------



## cobshopgrow (Nov 13, 2021)

lusidghost said:


> Why does Calimagic use it then? It seems to be the most recommended calmag product.


ive never used their product, but i guess the nutrient manufactorers fill you everything in a bottle as long someone is buying it.
if they really use calcium carbonate only in their mix it should be as good as every slow release garden lime.
maybe buy a small bag of calcium carbonate powder and try yourself, it hardly disolve in water.


----------



## jonnynobody (Nov 14, 2021)

Snowback said:


> You may already know this, but keep in mind that Avid is extremely toxic and it is also systemic.


It's awful horrible stuff. I wear a full hazmat suit with respirator. I'm sending a sample off for a test to a local testing facility after the next harvest. For $75 they'll hook you up with an analysis of what's in the plant matter. If there are any pesticides or other contaminants it will list the chemical and concentration.

Forbid has the longest half life at 45 days so if it's only being used in veg and the plants have another 60-70 days of flower it should be metabolized from the plant tissue by harvest time. Avid has a 28 day half life if I remember correctly. None of this is ideal. This is pure desperation.


----------



## xtsho (Nov 14, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> It's awful horrible stuff. I wear a full hazmat suit with respirator. I'm sending a sample off for a test to a local testing facility after the next harvest. For $75 they'll hook you up with an analysis of what's in the plant matter. If there are any pesticides or other contaminants it will list the chemical and concentration.
> 
> Forbid has the longest half life at 45 days so if it's only being used in veg and the plants have another 60-70 days of flower it should be metabolized from the plant tissue by harvest time. Avid has a 28 day half life if I remember correctly. None of this is ideal. This is pure desperation.


You feel the need to wear a respirator when applying the stuff yet you spray it on your plants? 

Why don't you just use citric acid?


----------



## jonnynobody (Nov 14, 2021)

xtsho said:


> You feel the need to wear a respirator when applying the stuff yet you spray it on your plants?
> 
> Why don't you just use citric acid?


I know man. It's far less than ideal taking this approach and as soon as they're eradicated I'll revert to my organic options. I've had good luck with venerate and spinosad, but all the other organic stuff I've tried has just damaged the plants. Horticultural soap was the worst even at 50% of the recommended dose it fried everything. Had to actually toss a few plants. I do plan to buy azagaurd in the near future. Azamax is absurdly overpriced, but the product works very well. I've got 2 more products I'm eyeing up for the IPM. Pyganic seems to be highly recommended and it's fairly cheap. The other one I plan to buy is azagaurd from domyown but that puppy is $230 or so. No smaller quantities. The value over buying azamax from those blood suckers at GH is tremendous due to the high concentration and low application rate. Gotta save a few more pennies to hit the order button on that one. Once the infestation is eradicatedTo be completely forthcoming I kept frying my plants with citric. I even reduced to 2tsp/quart and it kept frying my new foliage twisting and curling. I've made 3 attempts so far to make the citric work to no avail. Is there something I'm doing wrong with the application? I reduce the lights to a cloudy day with barely any output before I spray and the same thing keeps happening.


----------



## rkymtnman (Nov 14, 2021)

cobshopgrow said:


> calcium carbonate isnt really quickly avaiable to the plants, its too big to be taken up like it is


i've read that too but how is it true if calcium carbonate is in my well water and my plants never need Ca supplementation?


----------



## cobshopgrow (Nov 14, 2021)

same for my tap water, while mine have way too much carbonates.
not directly avaible dont mean not avaible at all, if the carbonate reacts with some acid it becomes avaiable, like for the people who make calcium acetate, or lets take limed peat as example.
the peat is acidic the lime is alkaline, both together will react and make the calcium avaiable.
calcium carbonate is a pretty good PH up, am sure this all is nothing new for you, i just wanted to point it out.


----------



## cobshopgrow (Nov 14, 2021)

i think maxibloom have some calcium carbonate included, but not much and it have a lot acidic P in it, so this will balance each other out and make it disolvable and avaiable to the plant.
on my hunt for calcium nitrate substitutes (as its hard to get anyway where i am) i also came across calcium sulfate, gypsum, quickly avaiable, quite PH neutral, you just have maybe too much sulfur in your mix which isnt a big deal often.
a nice option i never tried but eyed is chelated calcium, its really expensive and there are just a few sources, but it sounds really tempting to use later in flower.


----------



## Snowback (Nov 14, 2021)

I also would be curious to try chelated calcium. A place not far from me sells it.


----------



## cobshopgrow (Nov 14, 2021)

if you do please share the results.


----------



## jonnynobody (Nov 20, 2021)

I had a repeat yesterday of the same issue I dealt with last grow cycle. The little red rust spot looking dots that appeared on my leaves on several plants was not the result of a deficiency. I only noticed them on 1 plant yesterday and the first occurrence with this grow cycle. I plucked a leaf to find out what was going on under my trusty 40x kids microscope. Effing spider mites were causing the spots. The leaves that had the spots were covered in mite eggs. I plucked every last one and hosed the plants down with a pesticide treatment. I'm now spraying daily alternating spinosad, venerate, and every 3rd day I'm rotating forbid, floramite, and avid. Shit is just unbelievable they're surviving with the onslaught of pesticide I've been applying.

Last cycle I was certain what I was seeing was a calcium deficiency. It was not and had nothing to do with fertilizer. I'd suggest anyone who is not running some form of IPM correct that shit immediately. Eventually lack of IPM will decimate your garden and make you wanna tear your hair out.

I started 30 or so fresh seeds and abandoned any ideas of taking clones from the infected plants. I'm over this shit. I've isolated the seedlings in a nursery far away from the flower room. I spray a 10% bleach solution on the floor all around the entrance of the nursery tent every day now. Learn from my pain and implement an IPM system of some kind.


----------



## MidnightSun72 (Nov 20, 2021)

Half way through my second small bag of Jacks Tap. So I just ordered a 22lb. The girls are vegging along nicely on it 0.7 starting EC. I add nutes up to 2.0EC. Then add Epsom up to 2.1EC. So far it's going really well. And my girls transitioned to the floraflex in flower perfectly. Really happy with Jacks.


----------



## zzyx (Nov 20, 2021)

Grown with J R Peters Jacks Classic No.4 10-30-20


----------



## jonnynobody (Nov 20, 2021)

zzyx said:


> Grown with J R Peters Jacks Classic No.4 10-30-20View attachment 5032273View attachment 5032275


Back in the day Uncle Ben over @ ICMAG was using the 20-20-20 with amazing results start to finish. He even tried a few of their other fertilizer mixes I've never seen anyone else use and his plants always looked amazing. His purpose was to clearly and definitely once and for all prove to everyone you do not need cannabis specific nutrients. It's all a sham. He'd post pictures of his frosty fat colas and it was very impressive. Great guy that gave great advice. It just took me a long time to listen


----------



## Gno702 (Nov 23, 2021)

jonnynobody said:


> So I have 2 stock solutions made up on hand. 1 is jack's 5-12-26 at the maximum solubility of 2# to 1 gallon RO water. The other is 580g calcium nitrate to 1 gallon RO water. I'm going to figure out how much liquid stock solution is needed of each that is equivalent to 3.6g/gallon of powder and 2.4g/gallon of powder. Once I have those numbers I can start rocking the stock solution accurately with confidence. I'll be adding epsom to my next stock solution to make res making day as easy as possible. I hate weighing powders


Some info would be greatly appreciated if possible
So I would like to make stock solution of Jacks 3.6 2.4 1.2 feed 

So is it 3.6 x 100 for 51226
2.4 x 100 for cal nit
1.2/x 100 for Epsom 
So after that how would you feed in mils per gal to get desired 321


----------



## MidnightSun72 (Nov 23, 2021)

Gno702 said:


> Some info would be greatly appreciated if possible
> So I would like to make stock solution of Jacks 3.6 2.4 1.2 feed
> 
> So is it 3.6 x 100 for 51226
> ...


You would mix your powder liquid concentrate at a ratio of 1 to 1 to 1. 

You need to test how much it raises the waters EC.
take a gallon of water and a table spoon of each and measure the EC. And then increase the number of table spoons of each mixture until you hit your desired EC.

so as an example. If your water starts at 0-0.1EC. And you add in 1 table spoon of each mixture and you end up with an EC of 0.8. Then you would know you need 2 tables spoons of each to hit an EC of ~1.6 then test and see.


----------



## Snowback (Nov 23, 2021)

I like your avatar. Been into Egypt lately.


----------



## Creature1969 (Nov 23, 2021)

Gno702 said:


> stock solution of Jacks 3.6 2.4 1.2 feed


To simplify, that's 3 parts Jacks, 2 parts CalNit, 1 part Epsom. It's the _ratio_ that matters.
I use 3/4 tbsp Jacks, 1/2 tbsp CalNit, 1/4 tbsp Epsom (not in that order) per gallon then add water to drop to my desired EC.
That works for me hand watering coco. I can put half gallon of my nute mix and half gallon of water and know I have 1.2EC, every time.
I ain't got time to do the math and weigh shit to get to a desired EC in 4gal of water, especially when there's no need for such complication. 
Keep it simple.


----------



## jonnynobody (Nov 24, 2021)

Gno702 said:


> Some info would be greatly appreciated if possible
> So I would like to make stock solution of Jacks 3.6 2.4 1.2 feed
> 
> So is it 3.6 x 100 for 51226
> ...


Maximum solubility for the 5-12-26 is 2#/gallon
I can't remember for calnit but a quick google search will get you the answer. It's something like 560g/gallon. It's easy to find.


----------



## waterproof808 (Nov 27, 2021)

I've been thinking about making a concentrated stock solution with jacks as well. Seems like it would be a time saver in the long run, just pour out into a marked measuring cup and dump in your Rez...no waiting for salts to dissolve every time you mix nutrients.


----------



## lcmon (Nov 28, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> This is my goto veg recipe. Coco, so I run Ca/Mg higher in veg/early bloom.....or else I can get defs.
> I start with RO.
> 
> View attachment 4862620


Hello. I often see your posts and appreciate any info you share. I also use straight coco and ro water. I have been struggling with a veg recipe that works across the board. I'm just a little confused about what your doing in veg. Looks like you are using jacks at standard 321 ratios, but only using half gram/pg of Epsom?. Or are you saying this is your base, but you add cal and mag to this recipe late veg and early flower? Thanks


----------



## Rurumo (Nov 28, 2021)

lcmon said:


> Hello. I often see your posts and appreciate any info you share. I also use straight coco and ro water. I have been struggling with a veg recipe that works across the board. I'm just a little confused about what your doing in veg. Looks like you are using jacks at standard 321 ratios, but only using half gram/pg of Epsom?. Or are you saying this is your base, but you add cal and mag to this recipe late veg and early flower? Thanks


Some people don't add the full 3-2-1 amount of epsom, most people will do fine without it or with a reduced amount-there is still plenty of mag in the a/b. I run it very similar to Tint's recipe, but just shoot for more or less 600 ppm. Just have to watch it like a hawk during stretch.


----------



## TintEastwood (Nov 28, 2021)

Rurumo said:


> Some people don't add the full 3-2-1 amount of epsom, most people will do fine without it or with a reduced amount-there is still plenty of mag in the a/b. I run it very similar to Tint's recipe, but just shoot for more or less 600 ppm. Just have to watch it like a hawk during stretch.


What Rurumo said.
@lcmon

For me, I also run Ca a little higher in veg by running cal prime for my calnit. (Slightly more Ca to N ratio.)
Then I keep Mg around half of Ca PPM.

If I really want less N, I lower the calnit and supplement with Calimagic.


----------



## 1212ham (Nov 28, 2021)

TintEastwood said:


> What Rurumo said.
> @lcmon
> 
> For me, I also run Ca a little higher in veg by running cal prime for my calnit. (Slightly more Ca to N ratio.)
> ...


It's YaraLive calnit in the small 321 kit I bought, do you know the Cal and N ppm?



https://www.yara.us/contentassets/280676bbae1c466799e9d22b57225584/yaraliva-calcinit-pds/


----------



## TintEastwood (Nov 28, 2021)

1212ham said:


> It's YaraLive calnit in the small 321 kit I bought, do you know the Cal and N ppm?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.yara.us/contentassets/280676bbae1c466799e9d22b57225584/yaraliva-calcinit-pds/


YaraLive. Per gram, per gallon.
15.5% N = 41 ppm
19% Ca = 50 ppm

Others here...


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## zzyx (Nov 28, 2021)

My go to


----------



## .Smoke (Dec 6, 2021)

Still on the learning curve and have a few more issues to work out, but I'm starting to see some happy buds @ 2.25EC of 3-2-1.


----------



## icetech (Dec 7, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> Still on the learning curve and have a few more issues to work out, but I'm starting to see some happy buds @ 2.25EC of 3-2-1.


 I went up from 1.7 to 2.0 EC recently.. plants seem happy with a bit more, was afraid of burn but nope.


----------



## .Smoke (Dec 7, 2021)

icetech said:


> I went up from 1.7 to 2.0 EC recently.. plants seem happy with a bit more, was afraid of burn but nope.


I've been worried about burn a lot also. I think dropping the Calmag out has helped a ton in lowering my EC and allowed me to run more of the straight 3-2-1.

With the way things are looking I'm betting my next run will be pushing high 2's if not 3.0EC. Finally got a measurement and figured out I have a 910-1000 PAR spread over my canopy @ 680w (no Co2), so I'm sure the plants will enjoy a little more feed.


----------



## icetech (Dec 7, 2021)

.Smoke said:


> I've been worried about burn a lot also. I think dropping the Calmag out has helped a ton in lowering my EC and allowed me to run more of the straight 3-2-1.
> 
> With the way things are looking I'm betting my next run will be pushing high 2's if not 3.0EC. Finally got a measurement and figured out I have a 910-1000 PAR spread over my canopy @ 680w (no Co2), so I'm sure the plants will enjoy a little more feed.


 You are a madman going that high... i am curious how it will turn out  I use way less light though...

P.S. one thing i know is jacks is WAY more forgiving than liquid nutes i used to use.. those fuckers would cook a plant fast


----------



## Samwell Seed Well (Dec 7, 2021)

Creature1969 said:


> To simplify, that's 3 parts Jacks, 2 parts CalNit, 1 part Epsom. It's the _ratio_ that matters.
> I use 3/4 tbsp Jacks, 1/2 tbsp CalNit, 1/4 tbsp Epsom (not in that order) per gallon then add water to drop to my desired EC.
> That works for me hand watering coco. I can put half gallon of my nute mix and half gallon of water and know I have 1.2EC, every time.
> I ain't got time to do the math and weigh shit to get to a desired EC in 4gal of water, especially when there's no need for such complication.
> Keep it simple.


Jack's is great. Most brands, salt or bottle are decent. Some are better for certain applications then others... Jack's is a great all around, dry fertilizer.


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## waterproof808 (Dec 7, 2021)

So making jacks into a liquid concentrate has been a game changer. It's so much quicker to mix up a batch of nutrients and I'm not exposing the cal-nit to high humidity every time I feed. 
Now I'm debating a doser set-up so I can just mix up 5 gallon barrels of Part A and B and then not having to mixing a rez at all.


----------



## kratosxxl (Dec 11, 2021)

Im on a second run with jacks. So far so good. I do use their bloom and finish. Weight is ok, bud quality is amazing.


----------



## kratosxxl (Dec 11, 2021)

Gno702 said:


> Some info would be greatly appreciated if possible
> So I would like to make stock solution of Jacks 3.6 2.4 1.2 feed
> 
> So is it 3.6 x 100 for 51226
> ...


I use 4-2-1 in flower. Less nitrogen and never had claws.


----------



## F_T_P! (Dec 19, 2021)

waterproof808 said:


> I've been thinking about making a concentrated stock solution with jacks as well. Seems like it would be a time saver in the long run, just pour out into a marked measuring cup and dump in your Rez...no waiting for salts to dissolve every time you mix nutrients.


Why not dissolve salts in cup of hot water then add to rez?


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## waterproof808 (Dec 19, 2021)

F_T_P! said:


> Why not dissolve salts in cup of hot water then add to rez?


Because I already have months worth of concentrate that has been dissolved.


----------



## F_T_P! (Dec 19, 2021)

waterproof808 said:


> Because I already have months worth of concentrate that has been dissolved.


Makes sense, either way I guess.


----------



## Gno702 (Dec 19, 2021)

waterproof808 said:


> Because I already have months worth of concentrate that has been dissolved.


What's the mix for stock solution 
And how many mil per gal to get the desired 321 target


----------



## Artmann11 (Jan 27, 2022)

There was a lot of information in this thread. Recipies and formulas to play with! 
But did jonny beat the mites and make nice with Jack's? It was a year long show worthy of an award. From the great success to the horrible tragedy, all growers felt his joy and pain.

Well jonny? It's been a couple of months. How goes the grow?


----------



## Rurumo (Jan 27, 2022)

Yeah, this thread deserves a bit more life. It has some of the best info on Jack's recipes from a bunch of people.


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 27, 2022)

jack's ro 1 part is getting it done here.


----------



## Rurumo (Jan 27, 2022)

My favorite discussion in it was the part where they were talking about why some people burn their tips with a high EC while others do well with it. Some people were doing great with 2.2 EC, like Renfro and Smoke, but it was burning the hell out of other people who tried it. What it came down to was, the guys doing fine with the high EC were tuning in VPD, temps, and co2. Just really goes to show how important every single environmental factor is to a grow, and one thing...like RH...can bottleneck you. There were some really interesting conversations going on here.


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 27, 2022)

i don't think EC levels have anything to do with growing nice buds.


----------



## hotrodharley (Jan 27, 2022)

I’m using a brand called ENVY. Identical to Jack’s except it has magnesium and sulfur in Part 1. I’ve been using 3 grams of Part I and 2 grams of the Part 2 (calcium nitrate) and getting great results. Not real crazy about the magnesium being included but it has not presented any kind of problem.

In business since 1962 and they’re used extensively in hydroponics. Just cheaper because you can buy small bags of the stuff.


----------



## Artmann11 (Jan 27, 2022)

Rurumo said:


> Just really goes to show how important every single environmental factor is to a grow, and one thing...like RH...can bottleneck you.


No doubt. I accidentally unplugged my environmental controller for 10 minutes. The humidity went from 50% to 70%. The girls are transpiring like crazy so I know the flow is cranking.

But my feeding and nute schedule are waaaay different than anything I've seen here. Lol. I run a low profile RDWC. Instead of buckets I use a large tray with holes cut in the lid. The roots hang down and spread across the 42" x 42" tray. Some in this thread ran nutes once or twice a day. I fill it once an hour then it pumps the mix back to the reservoir. NS. They don't dry out. It is a large space. Because I run it so often I rarely went above 650-700 ppm with Floranova from GH. My best harvest I ran it at 550 ppm for the last 5 weeks. It was great. I guess the multiple fillings at low nutrients gave them what they needed for bulk.

However, I am getting off the bottle nutrients. Tired of it. I heard good things about Jack's. I never got the flavors or terps I wanted with Floranova either. The strain I'm growing is not a heavy feeder. Flo OG.

So I read Jonny and saw his photos. They looked great. I watched greengenes on youtube. His style looks great.


----------



## Billy the Mountain (Jan 27, 2022)

Artmann11 said:


> .....
> However, I am getting off the bottle nutrients. Tired of it. I heard good things about Jack's. *I never got the flavors or terps I wanted with Floranova either*. The strain I'm growing is not a heavy feeder. Flo OG.
> .....


The choice of Floranova had nothing to do with any perceived lack of terps or flavor.

That's bro-science 101


----------



## Billy the Mountain (Jan 27, 2022)

Not at all, just pointing out nonsense.
If you want better terps and flavor, try different genetics.


----------



## twentyeight.threefive (Jan 28, 2022)

Artmann11 said:


> You should be nicer.


He pointed out a fact that you apparently disagree with so that means he's not being nice? What is happening to this world...


----------



## Rurumo (Jan 28, 2022)

rkymtnman said:


> i don't think EC levels have anything to do with growing nice buds.


I totally agree


----------



## bk78 (Jan 28, 2022)

Artmann11 said:


> I'm here for knowledge. I have absolutely zero desire to argue.


Try not to call people trolls when all they do is disagree with what your opinion may be.


----------



## bk78 (Jan 28, 2022)

rkymtnman said:


> jack's ro 1 part is getting it done here.


I believe you used jacks tap in the past yeah? I’m going to try half my table next run with a separate reservoir to see how I like it. Not very stoked on ph fluctuations like I’ve heard from numerous other users though, as I like to mix and ph once and be done with it until next fill.


----------



## Offmymeds (Jan 28, 2022)

Artmann11 said:


> No doubt. I accidentally unplugged my environmental controller for 10 minutes. The humidity went from 50% to 70%. The girls are transpiring like crazy so I know the flow is cranking.
> 
> But my feeding and nute schedule are waaaay different than anything I've seen here. Lol. I run a low profile RDWC. Instead of buckets I use a large tray with holes cut in the lid. The roots hang down and spread across the 42" x 42" tray. Some in this thread ran nutes once or twice a day. I fill it once an hour then it pumps the mix back to the reservoir. NS. They don't dry out. It is a large space. Because I run it so often I rarely went above 650-700 ppm with Floranova from GH. My best harvest I ran it at 550 ppm for the last 5 weeks. It was great. I guess the multiple fillings at low nutrients gave them what they needed for bulk.
> 
> ...


GreenGenes is great. I built one his lights. He experiments a bit. Mr. GrowIt on YouTube is even better IMO. He is constantly seeking more knowledge & he is already a fountain of it.


----------



## Artmann11 (Jan 28, 2022)

Offmymeds said:


> GreenGenes is great. I built one his lights. He experiments a bit. Mr. GrowIt on YouTube is even better IMO. He is constantly seeking more knowledge & he is already a fountain of it.


You are right! Both of them have a lot of knowledge.

I have no experience with building lights. That's cool! Is it hard?

By the way, funny thing about Mr. Grow it's show. His cat constantly photo bombs him in the background! It's hilarious!


----------



## Offmymeds (Jan 28, 2022)

Artmann11 said:


> You are right! Both of them have a lot of knowledge.
> 
> I have no experience with building lights. That's cool! Is it hard?
> 
> By the way, funny thing about Mr. Grow it's show. His cat constantly photo bombs him in the background! It's hilarious!


No, it wasn't difficult at all & probably much cheaper now than when I did it.


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 28, 2022)

bk78 said:


> I believe you used jacks tap in the past yeah?


i had bad pH drops with the Tap so they gave me a bag of RO to try and it's stable for about a week


----------



## Artmann11 (Jan 28, 2022)

Offmymeds said:


> No, it wasn't difficult at all & probably much cheaper now than when I did it.


I bet it is. They have some serious competition now.

The new LEDs are nice. I think the one with the removable magnetic bars is sweet.


----------



## bk78 (Jan 28, 2022)

rkymtnman said:


> i had bad pH drops with the Tap so they gave me a bag of RO to try and it's stable for about a week


Ugh not what I wanted to hear. So you use the RO with tap now?


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 28, 2022)

bk78 said:


> Ugh not what I wanted to hear. So you use the RO with tap now?


It's because the water in Colorado is very nearly RO from the tap. My city water is consistently .05 EC. That's not a typo.


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 28, 2022)

bk78 said:


> Ugh not what I wanted to hear. So you use the RO with tap now?


yep. well water at about 0.2EC


----------



## bk78 (Jan 28, 2022)

rkymtnman said:


> yep. well water at about 0.2EC


My tap is around the same .1-.2 

I’ll grab a small bag of the 1 part RO then instead to try out I think.


----------



## bk78 (Jan 28, 2022)

ttystikk said:


> It's because the water in Colorado is very nearly RO from the tap. My city water is consistently .05 EC. That's not a typo.


Wow that’s a huge difference compared to rkys well water


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 28, 2022)

bk78 said:


> My tap is around the same .1-.2
> 
> I’ll grab a small bag of the 1 part RO then instead to try out I think.


i've only had 1 strain need more Ca than the nutes and well water provide.


----------



## rkymtnman (Jan 28, 2022)

bk78 said:


> Wow that’s a huge difference compared to rkys well water


we got the good shit up here in the mountains.


----------



## bk78 (Jan 28, 2022)

rkymtnman said:


> i've only had 1 strain need more Ca than the nutes and well water provide.


Yeah that’s 100% pheno related


----------



## Artmann11 (Jan 28, 2022)

I started the greengenes mix yesterday. I can't wait for the results!


----------



## bk78 (Jan 28, 2022)

rkymtnman said:


> we got the good shit up here in the mountains.


Heres December's water report for my city 

We have that Ca on lock down apparently lol


----------



## amneziaHaze (Jan 28, 2022)

i use masterblend but its similar you are right a lot stays in the plant after grow. even a 2 week flush doesn't get to show plant deficiencies


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 28, 2022)

amneziaHaze said:


> i use masterblend but its similar you are right a lot stays in the plant after grow. even a 2 week flush doesn't get to show plant deficiencies


Well of course; plants have evolved to protect themselves from a loss of nutrition. This isn't a good reason to flush; it's a reason not to overload the plants with nutrients to begin with.


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## amneziaHaze (Jan 31, 2022)

If she eats from the water i give her.2 weeks of flush is good and she doesnt stop development she just eats herselfe. My water ppm rises in flush soo roots are probably flushing out the nutes as well.i get a faster flush if i change the water daily


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## ttystikk (Jan 31, 2022)

amneziaHaze said:


> If she eats from the water i give her.2 weeks of flush is good and she doesnt stop development she just eats herselfe. My water ppm rises in flush soo roots are probably flushing out the nutes as well.i get a faster flush if i change the water daily


This does nothing but starve your plants right when they're finishing, bulking up and sweating out the resin that contains everything we want from the plant.

My advice is to find a middle ground; rather than blasting the plants with heavy nutrients through bloom and then starving them, give them a reasonable and well balanced diet throughout the cycle. You'll end up with healthier plants, bigger yields and stronger bud.

If you're having problems with what the plant tastes/smokes like, look to your drying and curing procedures.


----------



## Milky Weed (Jan 31, 2022)

ttystikk said:


> This does nothing but starve your plants right when they're finishing, bulking up and sweating out the resin that contains everything we want from the plant.
> 
> My advice is to find a middle ground; rather than blasting the plants with heavy nutrients through bloom and then starving them, give them a reasonable and well balanced diet throughout the cycle. You'll end up with healthier plants, bigger yields and stronger bud.
> 
> If you're having problems with what the plant tastes/smokes like, look to your drying and curing procedures.


All facts here.

Unrelated, this current run I’m going to go lighter on the nutes, and see if it affects general bud size. I’m still a noob, but felt I got medium-large bud sizes last time. Last time I cranked the e.c way high, all the way to 2.2. this time I took them up to 1.1 pretty quickly and I’ll increase it to 1.4 and keep them there the whole flower and taper abit towards the last week.

Still using jacks 20-10-20 pro peat lite, and jacks 7-15-37 finisher. I can’t wait to get a proper mix, I just have 25 lb of each to go through, technically would last me a solid year or two without getting more. I’m making it work though.


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## Artmann11 (Feb 1, 2022)

Just got two 25 lb bags. Part A, part B. Found a cool air-tight screw on lid for a 5 gallon bucket. I'm set for a year or two. I haven't worked it out but it's better than bottles!


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## Artmann11 (Feb 3, 2022)

Artmann nute mixer.

Artmann Jacks 321 nutrient mixer video. An automatic mixer made from two water pumps and pvc.


----------



## amneziaHaze (Feb 4, 2022)

ttystikk said:


> This does nothing but starve your plants right when they're finishing, bulking up and sweating out the resin that contains everything we want from the plant.
> 
> My advice is to find a middle ground; rather than blasting the plants with heavy nutrients through bloom and then starving them, give them a reasonable and well balanced diet throughout the cycle. You'll end up with healthier plants, bigger yields and stronger bud.
> 
> If you're having problems with what the plant tastes/smokes like, look to your drying and curing procedures.


well i got almost 1.5g/w i am happy with that. buds where hard and soft but thats weak light.... everybody that tried it said it was really tastey and strong. soo i am satisfied with it.

i cant influence drying i dont have the equipment for it soo i get what the weather gives me....

you are probably right but i like to do flushes it makes me feel better in the end and the whole grow i try to find the ppm that give me least amount of change i feel like thats optimal food
one thing i did but i have no idea was it good or not but i read it from sensi seeds or some big seedbank guy. after week 5 start lowering water level soo half of the roots are in the air it should make the plant think its gonna have a dry season and starts producing more resin to counter evaporation.


----------



## waterproof808 (Feb 4, 2022)

Artmann11 said:


> Artmann nute mixer.
> 
> Artmann Jacks 321 nutrient mixer video. An automatic mixer made from two water pumps and pvc.


It's way easier and quicker to just make 2 jugs of concentrated stock solution instead of spending time and money building some contraption. The ratio is printed on the bags. 

For 1 gallon of Concentrate:
-13oz part A+ 4oz Epsom Salts
-8.6oz Cal Nit


----------



## Artmann11 (Feb 4, 2022)

waterproof808 said:


> It's way easier and quicker to just make 2 jugs of concentrated stock solution instead of spending time and money building some contraption. The ratio is printed on the bags.
> 
> For 1 gallon of Concentrate:
> -13oz part A+ 4oz Epsom Salts
> -8.6oz Cal Nit



Thank you! But I like contraptions!


----------



## waterproof808 (Feb 4, 2022)

Artmann11 said:


> Thank you! But I like contraptions!


You should consider a magnetic stirrer then.


----------



## Artmann11 (Feb 4, 2022)

waterproof808 said:


> You should consider a magnetic stirrer then.


Interesting. Lol. I'm open to all kinds of tech.
I do like the concentrate idea. I think I might use that one.

The best gadget I made was my dry ice kief separator. It wasn't my original idea though. A guy on YouTube used a paint can hooked to a reciprocating saw with a bubble bag screen. I swapped the can for a stainless steel model instead. I works real good. The guy had a great idea. I give him credit. It's mainly for folks like me who can't physically shake a bubble bag for long.

Artmann stainless steel dry ice kief separator machine*. *Youtube

two parts. I'm not good at video. Sorry.


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## Gno702 (Feb 5, 2022)

waterproof808 said:


> It's way easier and quicker to just make 2 jugs of concentrated stock solution instead of spending time and money building some contraption. The ratio is printed on the bags.
> 
> For 1 gallon of Concentrate:
> -13oz part A+ 4oz Epsom Salts
> -8.6oz Cal Nit


Yes but how many mils per gal to get desired feed of the 321 nutrition


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## waterproof808 (Feb 5, 2022)

Gno702 said:


> Yes but how many mils per gal to get desired feed of the 321 nutrition


I have a 15gal rez, I use about 500ml each which gets me to ~1.4-1.6 EC. Comes out to 33ml per gallon. You may need to adjust the amount depending on your situation. 
I actually haven't been being super accurate with my measuring lately and the plants are growing just fine. I don't even check or adjust ph anymore which is pretty nice.


----------



## Milky Weed (Feb 6, 2022)

waterproof808 said:


> You should consider a magnetic stirrer then.


It would be so cool to have a giant magnetic stirrer i could put a 5 gal bucket on and just toss nutes in!


----------



## Wastei (Feb 6, 2022)

Milky Weed said:


> It would be so cool to have a giant magnetic stirrer i could put a 5 gal bucket on and just toss nutes in!


One minute in a blender make the process way less tedious. They are dirt cheap! Cheers!


----------



## Artmann11 (Feb 6, 2022)

Milky Weed said:


> It would be so cool to have a giant magnetic stirrer i could put a 5 gal bucket on and just toss nutes in!


That would be cool. My old aquarium filtration unit had a magnetic pump.


----------



## Cannabinoid Froyd (Feb 6, 2022)

Artmann11 said:


> Interesting. Lol. I'm open to all kinds of tech.
> I do like the concentrate idea. I think I might use that one.
> 
> The best gadget I made was my dry ice kief separator. It wasn't my original idea though. A guy on YouTube used a paint can hooked to a reciprocating saw with a bubble bag screen. I swapped the can for a stainless steel model instead. I works real good. The guy had a great idea. I give him credit. It's mainly for folks like me who can't physically shake a bubble bag for long.
> ...


I made a kiefer out of a little desk set of organizer trays. It has its own frame. I used trains arm/wheel mechanics as my inspiration for the mechanical parts to move the trays and used a 9v adapter with switch to power it on/off. It works great but it needs to be bolted down or it will shake itself right off of whatever surface it is on.


----------



## Artmann11 (Feb 6, 2022)

Cannabinoid Froyd said:


> I made a kiefer out of a little desk set of organizer trays. It has its own frame. I used trains arm/wheel mechanics as my inspiration for the mechanical parts to move the trays and used a 9v adapter with switch to power it on/off. It works great but it needs to be bolted down or it will shake itself right off of whatever surface it is on.


I'd love to see a picture! I looked all over the net for ideas. I considered a stationary model too. I got one of those small washing machines too. I hardly got anything for the level of work.

I love it!


----------



## efi2 (Feb 6, 2022)

Gno702 said:


> Yes but how many mils per gal to get desired feed of the 321 nutrition


Might not what you are asking,this is how I use jacks 321
I use a scale measure in grams 3.6 Jack's 2.4 cal-nit 1.2 Epson. Per gal I use 5 gal water bottles so multiply x5 18 gram jack 12 grams cal- not 6 sometime 5.5 epson
I used to use grinders, blenders ect. Now just keep each separated in jars ( cleaned pickle ,salsa ,tomatoes sauce glass jars)with water a couple days earlier so they fully resolved.


----------



## kratosxxl (Feb 6, 2022)

Wastei said:


> One minute in a blender make the process way less tedious. They are dirt cheap! Cheers!


this is the way


----------



## newguy41410 (Feb 8, 2022)

Hey guys, I have three plants sharing a reservoir of Jacks+calcinit and all three are showing showing signs of stress. I've been using Jack's hydro for a couple years and never had problems like this. All three plants are sharing the same reservoir so I'm guessing it has something to do with the nutrient solution.
View attachment 5082156

View attachment 5082157

Last week I had discovered the pH had shot up to about 6.8 and I brought the pH back down to 5.8 and it is currently at 6.0. The nutrient solution consists of 600ppm of Jack's 5-12-26 and CalciNit (Jack's 2-part). The RO water was around 10 ppm by itself. I usually get lush green growth from start to finish and this is my first time experiencing deficiency in the past couple years using Jack's hydro. If I had to guess I would guess either nitrogen or magnesium deficiency but I'm really not sure. I see some people online suggesting to run Jack's 3-2-1 if using RO water but I never have because I was told that the calcium and mg levels in Jack's hydro was more than enough and I never had a problem before. I am now wondering if I should be doing 3-2-1 formula with my new RO filter? Also wondering if it could simply be an overall nutrient deficiency due to having high pH before? But I corrected the pH a week ago so I'm skeptic it could be some type of pH lockout. The only other factors I can think of are lighting is too intense, or I'm overfeeding, or a combination of both maybe? Lighting is COB LED currently at 500 umol. The roots look pretty white and healthy and smell fine so I have no reason to suspect rot. The plant in the photo below is the worst of all three plants showing deficiency.

The other two plants are not curling down like this plant is. Which kind of looks like over watering? I'm using perlite medium that incorporates SIPS (bottom feed) concept and I've never had over watering symptoms before using this style of grow though.

Would anyone be able to provide some insight as to what could possibly be happening here? Would appreciate it if so as I'm not experienced with deficiencies and feel like I'm chasing my tail trying to figure this out! Thanks for your time and have a great one.

The strain of all three plants is Soul Mate by breeder Bodhi, and are three different phenos grown from seed. The plant in the bottom photo can be seen in the lower left corner of the top photo. Thanks in advance!


----------



## rkymtnman (Feb 8, 2022)

newguy41410 said:


> Jacks+calcinit


jacks+cal/nit+epsom you left out the 1 in jacks 321


----------



## kratosxxl (Feb 8, 2022)

Epsom salt. Especially with ro


----------



## waterproof808 (Feb 8, 2022)

newguy41410 said:


> If I had to guess I would guess either nitrogen or magnesium deficiency but I'm really not sure. I see some people online suggesting to run Jack's 3-2-1 if using RO water but I never have because I was told that the calcium and mg levels in Jack's hydro was more than enough and I never had a problem before. I am now wondering if I should be doing 3-2-1 formula with my new RO filter?


 Every Jacks feed schedule includes epsom salts, not just the 321. Start using it, your plants are begging for it.


----------



## newguy41410 (Feb 8, 2022)

waterproof808 said:


> Every Jacks feed schedule includes epsom salts, not just the 321. Start using it, your plants are begging for it.


So I should just start adding epsom salt to all my Jack's mixes even though I didn't have problems without epsom salt in the past? Not like it won't hurt to add, correct? Going to mix up a res now


----------



## twentyeight.threefive (Feb 8, 2022)

newguy41410 said:


> So I should just start adding epsom salt to all my Jack's mixes even though I didn't have problems without epsom salt in the past? Not like it won't hurt to add, correct? Going to mix up a res now


What did you change recently than you did in the past? You mentioned a new RO filter. Did you run RO in the past? Different strain? Different lights? Narrow down the issues to what is different.

Yes I'd follow the recommended 3-2-1 schedule and keep an eye on your pH.


----------



## waterproof808 (Feb 8, 2022)

newguy41410 said:


> So I should just start adding epsom salt to all my Jack's mixes even though I didn't have problems without epsom salt in the past? Not like it won't hurt to add, correct? Going to mix up a res now


It wont hurt. I use tap water with 321 and still use epsom.


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## rkymtnman (Feb 8, 2022)

newguy41410 said:


> So I should just start adding epsom salt to all my Jack's mixes even though I didn't have problems without epsom salt in the past? Not like it won't hurt to add, correct? Going to mix up a res now


the leaves look like a Mg defic to me. i think that's why we all say add Epsom. i'd foliar with epsom maybe twice in the next day and that will fix it quicker


----------



## newguy41410 (Feb 8, 2022)

twentyeight.threefive said:


> What did you change recently than you did in the past? You mentioned a new RO filter. Did you run RO in the past? Different strain? Different lights? Narrow down the issues to what is different.
> 
> Yes I'd follow the recommended 3-2-1 schedule and keep an eye on your pH.


I got a new RO Filter a year ago. I just realized recently that it might be the reason I have been seeing my pH drift up so high. With my old RO filter I would mix up my Jack's mix and it would come out to 5.8 on the dot every time. My RO water was 50 ppm so I thought it would be beneficial if I get a new RO filter. My new RO filter gives me 10 ppm water. When I mix jack's with my RO water now I get a low pH and have to use pH up to bring pH to 5.8

I use potassium silicate to bring pH up since adding silica is beneficial to the plant. I have heard potassium silicate will drift up a lot more than other pH up solutions though although I have been able to keep pH stable with silica in the past. Not so sure if I can with my new RO filter. Also wondering if the lower ppm RO water I'm getting now is lacking in magnesium compared to my old 50ppm RO water which is why I may be seeing deficiencies now?


----------



## newguy41410 (Feb 8, 2022)

waterproof808 said:


> It wont hurt. I use tap water with 321 and still use epsom.


damn, wish i could use tap water and bypass having an RO system. Wouldn't have to drain so much "waste" water. But my tap water comes out at 500ppm here in socal


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## twentyeight.threefive (Feb 8, 2022)

newguy41410 said:


> I got a new RO Filter a year ago. I just realized recently that it might be the reason I have been seeing my pH drift up so high. With my old RO filter I would mix up my Jack's mix and it would come out to 5.8 on the dot every time. My RO water was 50 ppm so I thought it would be beneficial if I get a new RO filter. My new RO filter gives me 10 ppm water. When I mix jack's with my RO water now I get a low pH and have to use pH up to bring pH to 5.8
> 
> I use potassium silicate to bring pH up since adding silica is beneficial to the plant. I have heard potassium silicate will drift up a lot more than other pH up solutions though although I have been able to keep pH stable with silica in the past. Not so sure if I can with my new RO filter. Also wondering if the lower ppm RO water I'm getting is lacking in magnesium compared to my old 50ppm RO water?


The difference in Mg content in 10ppm and 50ppm water is negligible.

What is your starting pH of your RO water before adding anything? It must be very acidic. I also use ArmorSi in addition to my Jack's mix and have to pH down my solution to get it to 6.0pH. 

I also used to run air stones in my nutrient solution. I recently stopped using them and there almost zero pH drift up.


----------



## kratosxxl (Feb 8, 2022)

newguy41410 said:


> damn, wish i could use tap water and bypass having an RO system. Wouldn't have to drain so much "waste" water. But my tap water comes out at 500ppm here in socal


Mix them 50/50 ull have 250 ppm water with enough buffer to keep ur ph stable


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## kratosxxl (Feb 8, 2022)

Just make sure to use filter that removes chlorine and heavy metals


----------



## newguy41410 (Feb 8, 2022)

twentyeight.threefive said:


> The difference in Mg content in 10ppm and 50ppm water is negligible.
> 
> What is your starting pH of your RO water before adding anything? It must be very acidic. I also use ArmorSi in addition to my Jack's mix and have to pH down my solution to get it to 6.0pH.
> 
> I also used to run air stones in my nutrient solution. I recently stopped using them and there almost zero pH drift up.


My RO water comes out at 7 pH. Both my old RO system and my new RO system outputs 7 pH water. Which makes it all the more confusing for me trying to pinpoint what exactly's happening

(I currently have four buckets of four different water sources and I mixed in Jack's and am measuring pH as time goes by to see if there's a correlation anywhere. Trying to determine if it's the source of the water causing the pH drift)


----------



## newguy41410 (Feb 8, 2022)

kratosxxl said:


> Mix them 50/50 ull have 250 ppm water with enough buffer to keep ur ph stable


I might just do this down the road if I can't seem to keep pH stable with my RO water


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## potpimp (Feb 9, 2022)

newguy41410 said:


> damn, wish i could use tap water and bypass having an RO system. Wouldn't have to drain so much "waste" water. But my tap water comes out at 500ppm here in socal


When we lived in Oakhurst, we had uranium and arsenic in our water. A filter that would typically last a year most places wouldn't last but maybe a month.


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## ttystikk (Feb 10, 2022)

potpimp said:


> When we lived in Oakhurst, we had uranium and arsenic in our water. A filter that would typically last a year most places wouldn't last but maybe a month.


I'm amazed uranium is water soluble.


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## potpimp (Feb 10, 2022)

ttystikk said:


> I'm amazed uranium is water soluble.


I don't know if it's soluble or not but you can have elements in suspension that are not soluble. One good thing is that we didn't have to have night lights.


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## ttystikk (Feb 10, 2022)

potpimp said:


> I don't know if it's soluble or not but you can have elements in suspension that are not soluble. One good thing is that we didn't have to have night lights.


Sounds a lot like Westminster, Colorado- right down stream and down wind from the former Rocky Flats "nuclear triggers" manufacturing facility.

Those "triggers" were in fact fission bombs designed to be installed in hydrogen bombs to create the conditions for fusion to occur.

So not only tons (literally) of fissile nuclear materials but also loads of highly poisonous stuff like beryllium and other materials handled routinely by corporations completely indemnified against any liability for their misuse, misplacement or contamination.

Tasty!


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## newguy41410 (Feb 18, 2022)

Is it common to have to use pH up after mixing Jack's???

Years ago the pH use to always sit at 5.8 after mixing. And I always wait 24 hours to check and adjust pH. 

Nowadays my pH drops to about 5.2 and I have to pH up..

I'm using RO water. My tap water use to come out as 550-ish PPM. After the RO filter, water would be at around 40ppm.

Nowadays, my tap water comes out as 400 PPM (I guess my city water changed?). And I got a new RO filter and the PPM comes out to be 10 PPM nowadays. pH is at around 7, maybe 7.4, out the tap.


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## twentyeight.threefive (Feb 19, 2022)

newguy41410 said:


> Is it common to have to use pH up after mixing Jack's???
> 
> Years ago the pH use to always sit at 5.8 after mixing. And I always wait 24 hours to check and adjust pH.
> 
> ...


No, I've never had to use pH up. My tap is 35ppm and about 7 pH. 

Currently mixing my Jack's to 1.3 EC and I have to pH down to 6.0 pH.

Stronger ECs using more nutrients will lower your pH more.


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## Offmymeds (Feb 19, 2022)

The 1 in the Jack's formula is the Epsom Salts.


I use RO & I discovered pH rising in my rez. It turned out to be the wet Part B I had decided to use. It looked like crystals instead of tiny pellets.

I use Cal-Mag the 1st 2 weeks in coco just to make sure of the buffering capability.


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## Rurumo (Feb 19, 2022)

Offmymeds said:


> The 1 in the Jack's formula is the Epsom Salts.
> View attachment 5088343
> 
> I use RO & I discovered pH rising in my rez. It turned out to be the wet Part B I had decided to use. It looked like crystals instead of tiny pellets.
> ...


I keep a bagful of food grade dessicant packs around mainly for my seed collection but also for adding to each bag of nutrients. Calnit does suck up the RH so it's good to add a few dessicant packs and push the air out after each use-I hate when calnit gets moist, just totally messes up the accuracy of weighing it out. I usually only check ec a couple of times when I alter my "recipe" for plant stage and then just rely on weight after that. I just ordered a 25 lb bag of Calnit and was thinking about the best way to keep it dry-I'll probably add a bunch of dessicant packs to the big bag and then fill a smaller bag for my daily use.


----------



## newguy41410 (Feb 19, 2022)

Offmymeds said:


> The 1 in the Jack's formula is the Epsom Salts.
> View attachment 5088343
> 
> I use RO & I discovered pH rising in my rez. It turned out to be the wet Part B I had decided to use. It looked like crystals instead of tiny pellets.
> ...


Damn you might've hit the nail on the head. My CalCinit has clumped up because I left the lid off for a couple days and hadn't realized it. This happened maybe a year or two ago. It's so hydroscopic that it absorbed rH and clumped up. Do you think that's definitely attributing to my problem? Should I just get a new bag of CalCinit maybe?

I bought a 50 lb bag of Yara Live and have only used maybe two pounds, tops, in the past 4 years. I wonder if I scoop off all the top of the bucket if there will be no more clumps? Will check when I get home


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## newguy41410 (Feb 19, 2022)

Rurumo said:


> I keep a bagful of food grade dessicant packs around mainly for my seed collection but also for adding to each bag of nutrients. Calnit does suck up the RH so it's good to add a few dessicant packs and push the air out after each use-I hate when calnit gets moist, just totally messes up the accuracy of weighing it out. I usually only check ec a couple of times when I alter my "recipe" for plant stage and then just rely on weight after that. I just ordered a 25 lb bag of Calnit and was thinking about the best way to keep it dry-I'll probably add a bunch of dessicant packs to the big bag and then fill a smaller bag for my daily use.


I left the lid of my gamma bucket off for a couple days and didn't realize. Due to the CalCinit being hydroscopic it looks like it absorbed some moisture and some clumped up. I would say at least 90-95% of the bucket is _NOT_ clumped up though. I am able to _easily_ break the clumps up by hand and they fall apart back into granules. Do you think this clumping up would/could be attributing to pH drift or any other deficiency issues that arise maybe?




Offmymeds said:


> The 1 in the Jack's formula is the Epsom Salts.
> View attachment 5088343
> 
> I use RO & I discovered pH rising in my rez. It turned out to be the wet Part B I had decided to use. It looked like crystals instead of tiny pellets.
> ...


when you say your part B looked like crystals, do you mean like salt crystals? like they took on a _lot_ of water? Mine are clumped up, i wouldn't say they look like crystals though. I'm guessing you had a more extreme case of moisture in your part B?


----------



## Billy the Mountain (Feb 19, 2022)

There are lids available with a rubber gasket. Not cheap, but they make a 5gal bucket airtight. Certainly much better than a bag for keeping humidity out.


----------



## newguy41410 (Feb 19, 2022)

Billy the Mountain said:


> There are lids available with a rubber gasket. Not cheap, but they make a 5gal bucket airtight. Certainly much better than a bag for keeping humidity out.


Thats exactly what I use to store my Jack's Part A and Part B. Gamma Seals. I forgot to put the lid back on one day and my part B absorbed some humidity :/


----------



## Billy the Mountain (Feb 19, 2022)

newguy41410 said:


> Thats exactly what I use to store my Jack's Part A and Part B. Gamma Seals. I forgot to put the lid back on one day and my part B absorbed some humidity :/


There's nothing wrong with with your calnit; so long as it breaks apart readilty it's fine. Its certainly not the cause for any pH anomalies.


----------



## Offmymeds (Feb 19, 2022)

newguy41410 said:


> I left the lid of my gamma bucket off for a couple days and didn't realize. Due to the CalCinit being hydroscopic it looks like it absorbed some moisture and some clumped up. I would say at least 90-95% of the bucket is _NOT_ clumped up though. I am able to _easily_ break the clumps up by hand and they fall apart back into granules. Do you think this clumping up would/could be attributing to pH drift or any other deficiency issues that arise maybe?
> 
> View attachment 5088552
> 
> when you say your part B looked like crystals, do you mean like salt crystals? like they took on a _lot_ of water? Mine are clumped up, i wouldn't say they look like crystals though. I'm guessing you had a more extreme case of moisture in your part B?


Yes, mine was a little worse than that.


----------



## .Smoke (Mar 8, 2022)

Anyone tried the Megacrop 5-12-26? How's it compare to Jack's?

Jack's on Amazon is up to $96 now.
I ordered a bag from grow green MI and saved $18 even after paying for shipping, but I'm wondering if maybe it's not time to start looking elsewhere...


----------



## potpimp (Mar 8, 2022)

.Smoke said:


> Anyone tried the Megacrop 5-12-26? How's it compare to Jack's?
> 
> Jack's on Amazon is up to $96 now.
> I ordered a bag from grow green MI and saved $18 even after paying for shipping, but I'm wondering if maybe it's not time to start looking elsewhere...


I read that Russia has put an embargo on the ferts we buy from them. We buy almost all of it from them, according to the article.


----------



## .Smoke (Mar 8, 2022)

potpimp said:


> I read that Russia has put an embargo on the ferts we buy from them. We buy almost all of it from them, according to the article.


Yeah,
That's what's prompted me to stock up asap.


----------



## newguy41410 (Mar 8, 2022)

Isn't JR Peters located in USA though? I do see the price for ordering Jack's direct from JR PETERS is about 50% more expensive, shipped, than it was back in February of 2007 (which is when I bought my 25 lb bag)

Edit: looks like Amazon is a lot cheaper as it is free shipping. So you save about $40+ vs ordering direct from JR Peters


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 8, 2022)

potpimp said:


> I read that Russia has put an embargo on the ferts we buy from them. We buy almost all of it from them, according to the article.


also gonna be a lack of DEF too. diesel exhaust fluid that's made with Urea. i just stocked up.


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## twentyeight.threefive (Apr 14, 2022)

alllegs said:


> Keep supporting neonazi in Ukraine. Enjoy results.
> p.s. From Russia with love.


Joined 9 years ago and just made their 2nd post. Welcome new bot.


----------



## lusidghost (Apr 14, 2022)

This thread sucks.


----------



## lusidghost (Apr 14, 2022)

Check it out. A whole subforum.





Politics


News and politics



www.rollitup.org


----------



## GreatwhiteNorth (Apr 15, 2022)

Politics stay in that subforum.
Always been the rule & always will be. 
Abide by that or you *will* be banned.


----------



## hydroScript.js (Apr 15, 2022)

Too much light?View attachment 5118715
Trying to improve da fluff lmao


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 15, 2022)

hydroScript.js said:


> Too much light?View attachment 5118715
> Trying to improve da fluff lmaoView attachment 5118716


i try to keep my nutes in the dark. i know the bloom bottle says so. nice plants.


----------



## Mr. Mohaskey (Apr 15, 2022)

hydroScript.js said:


> Too much light?View attachment 5118715
> Trying to improve da fluff lmaoView attachment 5118716


Nice diploma


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 15, 2022)

Mr. Mohaskey said:


> Nice diploma


he might want to tape over his real name, huh?


----------



## lusidghost (Apr 15, 2022)

hydroScript.js said:


> Too much light?View attachment 5118715
> Trying to improve da fluff lmaoView attachment 5118716


Your cushion has root rot, sorry to say.


----------



## Billy the Mountain (Apr 15, 2022)

rkymtnman said:


> he might want to tape over his real name, huh?


I would if it was from the prestigious University of Phoenix


----------



## lusidghost (Apr 15, 2022)

lusidghost said:


> Your cushion has root rot, sorry to say.


----------



## hydroScript.js (Apr 15, 2022)

Shir I didn't realize it...oh well..good thing it's legal where I'm at...gotta fix thatbpic asap haha


rkymtnman said:


> i try to keep my nutes in the dark. i know the bloom bottle says so. nice plants.


That is some good info I never thought about that...u thunk I ruined them? Been n the light this whole grow...although under the plants...but I decided to use my spider famer as a side light....getting big fluff


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## hydroScript.js (Apr 15, 2022)

I'm shoot for 2 pounds this run...am I close?

Those little golf balm sized nuggs..but there's a lot of them per branch


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## rkymtnman (Apr 15, 2022)

hydroScript.js said:


> .u thunk I ruined them?


i don't know what light does to them to be honest. probably degrades something in them i'd guess.


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## hydroScript.js (Apr 15, 2022)

Billy the Mountain said:


> I would if it was from the prestigious University of Phoenix


Damn...always trying to clown someonw...did u even graduate? Plus I got a fire job as an software engineer so..my life is sweet...hater haha


----------



## xtsho (Apr 15, 2022)

hydroScript.js said:


> Damn...always trying to clown someonw...did u even graduate? Plus I got a fire job as an software engineer so..my life is sweet...hater haha


I went to the University of Phoenix. My job at the time paid for me to go through the MCSE program. I never finished it though. I had my MCSE before the course was even over as I went through the coursework on my own and started taking the tests. The program was a joke and that school is a shady pay for diploma mill. They were letting people into the MCSE program that had absolutely no computer experience at all but did qualify for financial aid. But that's how all these kinds of schools operate. Like ITT which got shut down. I remember going through resumes at one of my jobs during the hiring process and anyone listing ITT as education got tossed in the "Don't Call" pile. I think University of Phoenix falls into a similar category. They prey on people in dead end jobs that qualify for financial aid.


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## Billy the Mountain (Apr 15, 2022)

hydroScript.js said:


> Damn...always trying to clown someonw...did u even graduate? Plus I got a fire job as an software engineer so..my life is sweet...hater haha


It wasn't a personal slight but an institutional one. As @xtsho mentioned, they enroll any warm body eligible for financial aid. Graduation and job placement rates were so dismal, they had their accreditation threatened. I'm sure some good realtors graduated from Trump University as well.


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## xtsho (Apr 15, 2022)

Billy the Mountain said:


> It wasn't a personal slight but an institutional one. As @xtsho mentioned, they enroll any warm body eligible for financial aid. Graduation and job placement rates were so dismal, they had their accreditation threatened. I'm sure some good realtors graduated from Trump University as well.


They have more staff to recruit students and help them get financial aid than actual instructors because that's how they make money. They should shut down all of these diploma mills like they did ITT. All they do is suck off of federal government financial aid program. The students end up wasting a bunch of time to ultimately find out that the piece of paper they spent years getting is basically worthless to potential employers.


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## Cannaclysmic Events (May 7, 2022)

jonnynobody said:


> Wow that's interesting. I get weird leaf anomalies if I run my usual 1.8 EC with jack's. Every environment is different though, and if that's what the ladies want for lunch you better serve that shit up  I tried the recipe at 3.6g jack's and 2.4g calcium nitrate, but it was too strong. The canopy didn't look healthy and tip burn was evident. My lights are very close to my canopy though. Jonny has low ceilings in his flower room. As a result my plants drink a lot more water than a flower room in which the lights were placed higher. The leaves are sweating at a much higher rate and as a result they drink much more water. I have 5 that are drinking daily now. 2 of which are now drinking twice per day. I haven't even entered the 4th week of flower yet. I'm going to have to upgrade to 10 gallon buckets after this cycle. Watering 2-3x/day is bush league shit man


I'm guessing you haven't caught on to "smaller pot, bigger colas" with coco yet eh? Turns out, with a root bound system that has an exceptionally short wet dry cycle, the duration of that cycle has a huge effect on plant size and vigor. I grow Jurassic bushes in 1 gl pots in coco fertigated via continuous drip. Its cannibus on the Audubon with cruise control.


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## Cannaclysmic Events (May 7, 2022)

newguy41410 said:


> My RO water comes out at 7 pH. Both my old RO system and my new RO system outputs 7 pH water. Which makes it all the more confusing for me trying to pinpoint what exactly's happening
> 
> (I currently have four buckets of four different water sources and I mixed in Jack's and am measuring pH as time goes by to see if there's a correlation anywhere. Trying to determine if it's the source of the water causing the pH drift)


RO water will actively absorb CO2 from the air to form carboxilic acid and settle out around pH of 
5-5.5 this can occur on varying levels even after adding nutes. I usually stabilize it with an air pump, let it bottom out so it's saturated with CO2/carb acid, before adding nutes and pH adjustment.


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## Delps8 (Jun 15, 2022)

ttystikk said:


> Sounds a lot like Westminster, Colorado- right down stream and down wind from the former Rocky Flats "nuclear triggers" manufacturing facility.
> 
> Those "triggers" were in fact fission bombs designed to be installed in hydrogen bombs to create the conditions for fusion to occur.
> 
> ...


I know it well. I lived in Broomfield (north of Rocky Flatts) and we referred to it as "The bomb farm".


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## ttystikk (Jun 20, 2022)

Delps8 said:


> I know it well. I lived in Broomfield (north of Rocky Flatts) and we referred to it as "The bomb farm".


When my bones glow green for the next million years, that fucking place is the reason why.


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## Snowback (Jun 28, 2022)

I used to live one county over from one of the test sites in central Nevada (thankfully not downwind) so I feel your glow my brothers!


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## Artmann11 (Jun 29, 2022)

Dad saw the devastation of Hiroshima first hand. I might have a few genetic abnormalities myself.


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