# Blue Dream 800W Induction Lights SOG



## solcielo (Jan 18, 2011)

So being unable to get any reputable information for veg-bloom with induction lamps (especially in this forum...) I decided to do us all a favor and run a legit journal to test the light's potential in one square meter and shut up the nay-sayers while I'm at it. Or perhaps give them validation....

Pretty much same as my last grow except for the HiD lighting and no needed AC unit. Still a 4x4 tent with a 3x3 tray. Using 6" pots with about 2" of hydroton on the bottom with a 4" cube of rockwool above it and some rockwool croutons around the sides and topped with an algae cover. 2-400W adorn my canopy and following discussion with the people down at the shop I kept the lights two feet away during veg and one foot away during bloom... the plants just love them.

Questions and discussion always encouraged in my threads. However, negative nancy's can go ahead and hit their back button now as I won't be responding to fools. Arguing with a fool only proves there are two.



Pictures are all the way from transplant to 3 days into bloom (yesterday). 24 came rooted and the last one took forever to root, hence the empty slot in the earlier pics. Enjoy!


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## wannaquickee (Jan 18, 2011)

lookin green! nice man..flood and drain?


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## mcgyversmoke (Jan 18, 2011)

subbed for this one im very interested.!!
so whats the difference with the lights looks like a mix of mh and floro tubes lol


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## solcielo (Jan 19, 2011)

yah flood and drain with a 20gal res down below. 

the difference in the light is the technology is much like florescent bulbs in that a gas inside the tube is excited and gives off light, as opposed to heating up an element that gives off light when it heats up. The metallic donuts on the end are polarized and give a positive and negative charge, respectively, charging the argon gas inside. Special phosphorous coating helps give off spectrum of light that the plants enjoy. All this is what I've managed to put together and as I understand it but if you want a more complete explanation go explore around the website. Those guys have put a lot of effort into compiling theoretical data in one place.


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## mcgyversmoke (Jan 19, 2011)

seems like a solid idea do you know what temp they are?? im guessing 6000k's by the color


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## solcielo (Jan 20, 2011)

Well they measure around 5200K but don't get hung up on the Kelvin reading with these bulbs. As I understand it, Kelvin simply indicates what color to the human eye you're going to perceive. The lower temperatures (such as HPS) give off a more orange or yellow glow while the higher temps (MH, etc...) appear more blue or white. If you're observing the color of the light the plant has no use for that light, most likely every bit of light you can see is barely in the absorption range of the plant. Temperature in the past has been a helpful guide in helping to know that mostly flowering-beneficial light is being given to the plant in flower and vegetative-beneficial light is being given to the plant in veg. These lights put off the entire spectrum (our human eyes can't see the really useful ranges put off) such that you never change the bulb from veg to bloom. The people selling the lights also claimed that changing the bulb like that is somewhat stressful on the plant and you don't experience that slight shocking that plants experience when you swap from MH--->HPS. I think the temperature (K) in these lights is also a product of what it is coated with, so the 2700K "flowering" bulbs are really the same as the 6500K bulbs for induction, they just paint one a nice color so you think you're doing better by spending twice as much. I could be completely mistaken but this is my understanding about Kelvin temp and these bulbs.


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## solcielo (Jan 20, 2011)

mcgyversmoke said:


> im guessing 6000k's by the color


oh and also i really messed with the exposure and white balance in my photos (I shoot in .raw) to get some of those upward looking shots to come out. they are waaaaaaaaaaay brighter than the pictures indicate.


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## D.Gotti (Jan 20, 2011)

Subbed! How close to the light is your temperature probe when its reading 81F?

Wow! I just got a price quote on 3 of these 400w lights. They want $2000 shipped. 

Edit: I did some basic math, thats a good price, considering expenses over the course of 5 years to run three 400w hps/mh. Especially since a 400w inda-gro is supposed to be equal to 750w hps/mh. It would cost more over 5 years to run 3 600w hps/mh than the inda-gro lights. Its a great deal once you look farther than the price tag.


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## BamaHigh (Jan 20, 2011)

Wow this looks cool, I've never seen a lamp like that. Subbed.


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## Snow Crash (Jan 20, 2011)

Any chance we can see the effect over the course of the last two to three days? I'm digging the explorer spirit in here. Those plants are going to need some thinning at some point if this keeps on going the way it is.

When do you start 12/12? Are you using these lights to flower with?


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## Esteban Sanchez (Jan 20, 2011)

My bluedream has thinner longer leaves.. yours seem to have more indica genetics. 

I just flowered my BD at 10" on 1/13. So we are at about the same time on everything... im interested in seeing how yours do!!


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## docrock (Jan 20, 2011)

Thank you. That looks great and this is the first place I've found any information confirming what the manufacture's state.


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## Cereall (Jan 20, 2011)

Thank you for making a journal of these lights

Do you need to to ventilate your tent the whole time lights are on or do these lights run pretty cool? 800w in that tent with 81* is pretty good

Now, do you expect or think you can pull off 1 gram per what which seems to be the target to shoot for in all the lighting technology


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## solcielo (Jan 21, 2011)

D.Gotti said:


> Subbed! How close to the light is your temperature probe when its reading 81F?


I keep my probe laying on the top of the canopy, sometimes it falls through but easy enough to set back up. Things are so stable in there I rarely even look at the thing to be honest.


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## solcielo (Jan 21, 2011)

Snow Crash said:


> Any chance we can see the effect over the course of the last two to three days? I'm digging the explorer spirit in here. Those plants are going to need some thinning at some point if this keeps on going the way it is.
> 
> When do you start 12/12? Are you using these lights to flower with?


The most recent pics in that first post were from the 17th and I just started my 12/12 photo period on Saturday the 15th. Trying to 'see the effect' over the past couple days, realize that this is their first week of 12/12 and they're going to be stretching a lot. If you notice in the filenames as you hover over my pics there is a 6 digit number in the middle like 011711 which stands for January 17, 2011. There are pics every couple days so you can see the effect of the lights in a vegetative state for about 3 weeks. And yes you flower with these lights. Just change the hours and leave the lamps and bulbs as they are, maybe move them a little closer.

As to the trimming that's tomorrow's job. I'm going to be following Al B. Fuct's advice and trim off the bottom 1/3 of anything but productive stems with promising tops after this first week of bloom and I'll come back through at the end of week three to clear up any leftovers. Though if you followed my last grow the undergrowth was just as thick as it is now and I just let it go and got tons of popcorn <shudder>. I thought that would be a great idea for more production in fact it just adds hours and lots of frustration to your trim time. I guess I'm saying I'm not as worried about mold because I keep the tent open with a whole lot of air moving through and around it, I'll be trimming to encourage more growth in the prime cola's and save me some headache come harvest.


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## solcielo (Jan 21, 2011)

D.Gotti said:


> Edit: I did some basic math, thats a good price, considering expenses over the course of 5 years to run three 400w hps/mh. Especially since a 400w inda-gro is supposed to be equal to 750w hps/mh. It would cost more over 5 years to run 3 600w hps/mh than the inda-gro lights. Its a great deal once you look farther than the price tag.


I was able to drive down and pick them up no problem and chatted with the guys at the shop for a while too. Once they found out I was recovering from leukemia and on disability they gave me a decent discount. They should break even dollar wise after a couple harvests compared to HID.


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## solcielo (Jan 21, 2011)

Cereall said:


> Thank you for making a journal of these lights
> 
> Do you need to to ventilate your tent the whole time lights are on or do these lights run pretty cool? 800w in that tent with 81* is pretty good
> 
> Now, do you expect or think you can pull off 1 gram per what which seems to be the target to shoot for in all the lighting technology


You're welcome it's my pleasure 

I keep my tent ventillated very well. The bottom of the main door stays propped open and the side window is always open. I have a blower that I have about 10 feet away that is pointed right at the window and open door 24/7 and there is also a carbon filter with 4" Vortex fan just sitting in the back corner of the tent spinning 24/7. Also run three little clip on fans in the corners the carbon filter isn't that run 24/7. There's no air or special ventilation for the lights per se but the whole system is very well ventilated. If I close everything up when I had an exhaust fan ducted in and pull negative pressure on the tent and let it go it heats up to about 91-94 depending on the day. 

If there were a way to separate the driver (aka ballast for induction lamps, the thing sitting on top of the lights) from the light that would really help with the heat in tent situations. Put the driver outside the tent and the lights inside. As I've said you can hold your hand against the bulb on the bottom of the setup no problem; the plants will even grow up into the lights if you let them. However, you can only hold your hand on the driver on top of the light for about 20seconds because it puts off so much heat. 

As to yield I would be shooting for 1g/watt if I had a bigger grow area. My production will be in the grams/m^2 (grams per meter squared) as I'm just running a very tight SoG in a 1 m^2 tent. I'm also quite amateur; this is only my second grow and my first under 1000W MH/HPS in the same tent yielded around 250g so I don't think I can do much worse.... lol


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## solcielo (Jan 21, 2011)

Esteban Sanchez said:


> My bluedream has thinner longer leaves.. yours seem to have more indica genetics.
> 
> I just flowered my BD at 10" on 1/13. So we are at about the same time on everything... im interested in seeing how yours do!!


the guy who sold me these clones also sold me the last batch and when he saw my garden right before harvest he realized he gave me mostly hash plant clones so, frankly, I'm a little suspect at any genetics I get from the dude at this point. However, I know a couple of the plants came out were definitely blue dream because I'm quite familiar with the strain and just love thew few buds I got. All these plants are matching up with what I noticed from the few blue dream I had in there before so I'm confident it's all legit, he probably just selected a more indica-dominate phenotype for his Mother plants, which is kind of smart for those of us with limited height as blue dream is known to stretch quite a bit (2-3')


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## solcielo (Jan 22, 2011)

Oh also 2 of the plants are actually blue venom (blue dream x white widow?) because the guy that sold me didn't quite have 25 all blue dream. The wider leaf ones in a couple of my pictures might have been confusing you too I thought about today as I was trimming undergrowth. Here's a pic of one of the blue venom's.


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## solcielo (Jan 22, 2011)

Week 1 of bloom is done so I went through and cleared off the bottom 1/3 or so of any growth aside from production branches. Here's a couple before and after shots.

 sideshot

 one plant

 another plant close up

 before with all the plants in this morning and the try bottom after I emptied it all out

 roots!!!!!


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## Ashlee (Jan 22, 2011)

WOW... i've found gold... i've had my eyes on these for a long while.. they use em in paint booths out west cause they're brighter than flouros and not hot like HID, and in oil industry... always wondered hwo they'ed do, awesome to see you pokin a new idea out there... i hope you smash this outta the park bro, DO IT BIG MANG, those plants have some SERIOUS SHORT INTERNODAL growth... SOG heaven bulbs... HPS causes heavy stretch.. these would be up my ally.. or better yet in my driveway.. lol... i'm following RIGHT along on this my friend... good luck.. although it doesn't seem like you'd need it


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## Burger Boss (Jan 23, 2011)

LOL, just when I thought LED was the "end all" and it couldn't get any better...BANG!! INDUCTION LIGHTING!!!! 
Subbed


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## solcielo (Jan 23, 2011)

Burger Boss said:


> LOL, just when I thought LED was the "end all" and it couldn't get any better...BANG!! INDUCTION LIGHTING!!!!
> Subbed


Yah was doing serious research into going all LED before I stumbled onto these lights in a thread somewhere. 

On an aside Burger, your avatar has to be the scariest shit I've ever seen. That baby must have been scarred for life.


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## Burger Boss (Jan 23, 2011)

solcielo said:


> Yah was doing serious research into going all LED before I stumbled onto these lights in a thread somewhere.
> 
> On an aside Burger, your avatar has to be the scariest shit I've ever seen. That baby must have been scarred for life.


ROFLMAO.....yeah....I get that reaction a LOT! Got a great caption for it: "No thank's, I brought my lunch".......BB


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## D.Gotti (Jan 23, 2011)

solcielo, do you know the average height when you switched to 12/12? looks like 8-10" or so. what is your expected finishing height? how high is the temperature with the light a foot away in flower? i wasnt sure if the 81F was from veg or bloom. 

sorry about all the questions, i just ordered 3 of these 400s, and want to run a sog style. i figure your the one to ask, your plants look amazing, they say good things about the lighting already, very strong looking nodes, healthy looking foliage. is the stem color genetic, temp stress, or deficiency?


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## solcielo (Jan 23, 2011)

D.Gotti said:


> solcielo, do you know the average height when you switched to 12/12? looks like 8-10" or so. what is your expected finishing height? how high is the temperature with the light a foot away in flower? i wasnt sure if the 81F was from veg or bloom.
> 
> sorry about all the questions, i just ordered 3 of these 400s, and want to run a sog style. i figure your the one to ask, your plants look amazing, they say good things about the lighting already, very strong looking nodes, healthy looking foliage. is the stem color genetic, temp stress, or deficiency?


I got healthy rooted clones about 3-4" (really thick cuts too) and let them go from about Dec25 till roughly Jan16, or just about 3 weeks and they got to about 8-10" tall I think, though I never put a tape up to them come to think about it. This phenotype of blue dream tends to only put on another 1.5 feet or so but usually it is known to stretch 2-3'. I expect about 24-30 inches total height. Temp is the same flower or veg, same lights just shorten the duration for veg. Went in today and messed with it a bit, if I hang the sensor out under the light about 8 inches away totally hanging out in the open it reads 84 degrees. Laying on top of the canopy in steady state on a normal day it stays around 81 on the top of the canopy. The room (about 11'x9' with a small bathroom attached) heats up to about 76 because I keep good circulation. 

These lights seem perfect for SOG. From what I've read they don't offer quite the penetration you'll get out of HID lighting so to have a shallower canopy (such as with sog) would be ideal. I was actually blown away at how tight the node spacing is when I was getting in there trimming the little girls yesterday.

As to the stem color that is genetic and also a product of the cooler temps at night. I leave the window open and the room gets into the low-mid 60's during the evening usually and that cooler temp is what causes a lot of the purple coloring in stems and buds. The last grow with much the same strain and a few more most every stem had a dark reddish-purple hue to it. I also read somewhere that a cold snap towards the end of flower for blue dream makes the buds take on a blue color which would be cool if I could control that.


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## D.Gotti (Jan 23, 2011)

Very nice. This is pretty much exactly what ill be looking at this summer.  It will be my first SOG. Im still trying to figure out the right setup for me to run with a SOG. I do DTW soil-less. Pots and medium are cheap and stationary but harder to water in quantities of small containers. Looking into some diy auto feeding setups. I have 2 other grows to work on, so its hard to devote a lot of attention.


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## The Steve (Jan 24, 2011)

Just ordered a 40w 2700k induction light. I can only grow 2 to 3 plants at a time. I'm in the middle of flowering a grow so I'm going to add it to that and then once I start my next one I'm going to add in a 40w 6500k light. They say it gives off 150 lume per watt. I've used only CFL's up to this point, but I figure with my small area that two induction and maybe one or two CFL's I should get really nice results. I'm subbed for this grow.


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## chazbolin (Jan 24, 2011)

The Steve said:


> Just ordered a 40w 2700k induction light. I can only grow 2 to 3 plants at a time. I'm in the middle of flowering a grow so I'm going to add it to that and then once I start my next one I'm going to add in a 40w 6500k light. They say it gives off 150 lume per watt. I've used only CFL's up to this point, but I figure with my small area that two induction and maybe one or two CFL's I should get really nice results. I'm subbed for this grow.


Having used 4 of the inda-gro 400's for a little over a year now myself I can attest to their blends giving me a full grow from veg to flower with comparable yields from my 3-1000 watt hps days. Look forward to seeing this strain in all it's glory.

I learned a lot about induction grow lights on the inda-gro site but one of the things I did not know until I talked with them is that the induction lamps that use internal electrodes will fail in our environments since the base is usually side or top up. heat from the lamp and the room trap itself inside the electronics and they fail. While these screw in style internal electrode inductions may price out a bit less go with the external electrode type induction and you'll only spend money on these systems once. I'm speaking from experience.

Great Thread!


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## chazbolin (Jan 24, 2011)

solcielo said:


> So being unable to get any reputable information for veg-bloom with induction lamps (especially in this forum...) I decided to do us all a favor and run a legit journal to test the light's potential in one square meter and shut up the nay-sayers while I'm at it. Or perhaps give them validation....
> 
> Pretty much same as my last grow except for the HiD lighting and no needed AC unit. Still a 4x4 tent with a 3x3 tray. Using 6" pots with about 2" of hydroton on the bottom with a 4" cube of rockwool above it and some rockwool croutons around the sides and topped with an algae cover. 2-400W (www.inda-gro.com) adorn my canopy and following discussion with the people down at the shop I kept the lights two feet away during veg and one foot away during bloom... the plants just love them.
> 
> ...


Good spacing on the lights. When they get around week 10 let the canopy get to about a foot away. That's worked best for me. Also FYI the link you put up isn't working. pulling up a seat


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## dunit (Jan 24, 2011)

Sub'd and rep'd. Thanks for taking the plunge. Been looking at induction for a while. While they seem to cover lots of spectrum they have a pretty good hole at 415-435nm and 660-720nm so been kind of apprehensive. Am certainly glad to see a grow journal so once again thanks for that


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## D.Gotti (Jan 24, 2011)

dunit said:


> Sub'd and rep'd. Thanks for taking the plunge. Been looking at induction for a while. While they seem to cover lots of spectrum they have a pretty good hole at 415-435nm and 660-720nm so been kind of apprehensive. Am certainly glad to see a grow journal so once again thanks for that


The holes, they are small holes though. They still provide adequate PAR light from the effective ranges 0f 380-520 nanos, and from 610-720 nanos. The HPS however does not have a hole.....it actually drops off starting at about 640nm having less usable light in the red spectrum. Also there is more usable light in the 380-520nm range than a MH light.


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## Burger Boss (Jan 24, 2011)

D.Gotti said:


> The holes, they are small holes though. They still provide adequate PAR light from the effective ranges 0f 380-520 nanos, and from 610-720 nanos. The HPS however does not have a hole.....it actually drops off starting at about 640nm having less usable light in the red spectrum. Also there is more usable light in the 380-520nm range than a MH light.


Plus+ Rep for you Gotti, for understanding "PAR". I get so bloody sick of hearing some clown going on about the Lux & Lumen's, for which the plants have NO use. Good luck & good grow.......BB


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## D.Gotti (Jan 24, 2011)

Thank you BB! Not many realize it, but the light you see isnt really being used. Its like MAGIC!


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## dunit (Jan 25, 2011)

D.Gotti said:


> The holes, they are small holes though. They still provide adequate PAR light from the effective ranges 0f 380-520 nanos, and from 610-720 nanos. The HPS however does not have a hole.....it actually drops off starting at about 640nm having less usable light in the red spectrum. Also there is more usable light in the 380-520nm range than a MH light.





Burger Boss said:


> Plus+ Rep for you Gotti, for understanding "PAR". I get so bloody sick of hearing some clown going on about the Lux & Lumen's, for which the plants have NO use. Good luck & good grow.......BB


Not sure if I'm the clown your directing your comments at BB. 

Chlorophyl A does peak at 435nm so that particular spectrum is quite heavily weighted in PAR calculation. If you have a look at a PAR sensitivity spectrum graph the two highest weighted spectrums are 420-430nm and 660-670nm.










I'm crystal clear that these lights represent the highest overall PAR ratings of any light out there and their efficiency is pretty much second to none, certainly as available to the public anyway. I am just interested to see if those two holes have any significant effect in our particular application or if the strength through the rest of the spectrum more than makes up for it.

Thats why I'm watching and once again thanks to our host for making this info available 

Cheers


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## Burger Boss (Jan 25, 2011)

dunit said:


> *Not sure if I'm the clown your directing your comments at BB.
> 
> *Chlorophyl A does peak at 435nm so that particular spectrum is quite heavily weighted in PAR calculation. If you have a look at a PAR sensitivity spectrum graph the two highest weighted spectrums are 420-430nm and 660-670nm.
> 
> ...


I went back and reread your post, I see nothing about lux or lumens, so I guess there were no comments directed at you, however, if you were offended in some way, then by all means, please accept my apologises.......BB


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## chazbolin (Jan 25, 2011)

This is a very interesting way of looking at the PAR spectrum that Ive not seen before. I see that the units are uMole/s/m^2/nm, the per nm is the new addition Ive not seen. It makes total sense in that it accounts for the fact that shorter wavelength photons have more energy than longer wavelength photons. This comes from an equation we have all seen:

E = hc/&#955; 

Using the PAR Photon graph you can make direct one to one comparisons to the spectral graphs of the various light technologies to the PAR graph.

Well Done Brutha!


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## D.Gotti (Jan 25, 2011)

Woosah my friends. See how we all come together with great information and learn from each other. 

+reps


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## Snow Crash (Jan 25, 2011)

D.Gotti said:


> Woosah my friends. See how we all come together with great information and learn from each other.
> 
> +reps


Don't you mean:

Hazzah!

Boomer?


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## D.Gotti (Jan 25, 2011)

lol no. woosah is from that movie there.......bad boys i think. its his calming relaxing exercise....rubbing the earlobes while saying woosahhhh.

in anger management (the movie) they use goose frah bah it sounds like.


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## dunit (Jan 25, 2011)

D.Gotti said:


> lol no. woosah is from that movie there.......bad boys i think. its his calming relaxing exercise....rubbing the earlobes while saying woosahhhh.
> 
> in anger management (the movie) they use goose frah bah it sounds like.


Bad Boys it was. Martin Lawrence trying not to lose it......use it all the time. lmao


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## D.Gotti (Jan 25, 2011)

thats his name! i couldnt remember it!  hes a really funny guy


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## dunit (Jan 25, 2011)

Burger Boss said:


> I went back and reread your post, I see nothing about lux or lumens, so I guess there were no comments directed at you, however, if you were offended in some way, then by all means, please accept my apologises.......BB


Some days I'm just too touchy, Oxy withdrawl....can't wait to crop


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## dunit (Jan 25, 2011)

chazbolin said:


> This is a very interesting way of looking at the PAR spectrum that I&#8217;ve not seen before. I see that the units are uMole/s/m^2/nm, the per nm is the new addition I&#8217;ve not seen. It makes total sense in that it accounts for the fact that shorter wavelength photons have more energy than longer wavelength photons. This comes from an equation we have all seen:
> 
> E = hc/&#955;
> 
> ...


The more energy in shorter wavelengths I understand and PAR its self explanatory but two things confuse me about this graph and if you have a clue maybe you could enlighten me..

Energy decreases on a linear curve as wavelength increases so I don't get why the relationship between PAR sensitivity and PAR photons is A-not linear and B-peaks at separate wavelengths?

The only thing I have come up with is that although those are the wavelengths the plant is most sensitive to they are not actually the wavelengths most needed in which case the lighting industry has been chasing the wrong spectrum peaks for quite sometime and with all the engineers involved I am having trouble imagining they have done that.

Thanks for the kudos amigo


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## D.Gotti (Jan 25, 2011)

This isnt a response- Informational only. 

The amount of light a plant receives, has a direct impact on its growth rate. Most plants tend to grow faster when available light increases, however their maximum growth rate is achieved at a substantially lower amount of sunlight than 2,000 micromoles. The point at which a plant receives more light than they can utilize, is known as the Light Saturation Point. For most plants, the optimum level of PAR lighting is approximately 500 micromoles per square meter (~55 micromoles per square foot), and if these plants receive much over that, they can reach the point of light saturation.

this lamp is 700umol at 12" and 600umol at 24". average 500umol/m2.


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## Burger Boss (Jan 25, 2011)

D.Gotti said:


> This isnt a response- Informational only.
> 
> The amount of light a plant receives, has a direct impact on its growth rate. Most plants tend to grow faster when available light increases, however their maximum growth rate is achieved at a substantially lower amount of sunlight than 2,000 micromoles. The point at which a plant receives more light than they can utilize, is known as the Light Saturation Point. For most plants, the optimum level of PAR lighting is approximately 500 micromoles per square meter (~55 micromoles per square foot), and if these plants receive much over that, they can reach the point of light saturation.
> 
> this lamp is 700umol at 12" and 600umol at 24". average 500umol/m2.


By God! This is good stuff....I was not aware of "light saturation" or that plants could only utilize just so much light.
Thanks for the info, it all helps to tweak one's understanding of the way of cannabis.......BB


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## D.Gotti (Jan 25, 2011)

The point of light saturation is usually exceeded when growing cannabis. The affects are worse for some plant species. With cannabis, as we have heard in many cases, less is more. Its very hard for some others to understand that because according to most everything else, more is more. 

BB.....That avatar.....I dont even know what to say....WWJD? LMFAO

How did he explain to the Department of Social Services that he was the best option for this child?


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## solcielo (Jan 25, 2011)

Likin' where this thread is going and love the back and forth about PAR and the charts etc... I'll try and get in there and take some more pics tomorrow.


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## xyzxyz (Jan 26, 2011)

*solcielo *

*Props brother. Will be watching this with interest. Did I miss how long you vegged the clones for prior to flower? Also did you mention brand of induction lighting? I remember reading that for the colour K they are painted. Is this on the inside or outside of the tube and do you think the paint will fade with use shifting the colour K over their long life time? *

*Again, thanks brother. Pioneer for sure.*


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## chazbolin (Jan 26, 2011)

Greetings XYZXYZ

This thread is hitting on sooo many good points I don't know where to begin. The 'hide the pea' Kelvin ratings of lamps designed for growers is one of my favorite pet peeves since it generates enormous profits for lamp mfg's who push their products based on a certain Kelvin being necessary to achieve optimum results when 'properly' utilized within the plant cycle. 

There are several companies out of China who will paint the inside of the lamp red. Some of them won't use a phosphor mix to get the lower end red. When doing so lumen output overall falls by 50%. The Chinese have even gone so far as to develop a 1/2 red and 1/2 white/blue on a single lamp. Ludicrous. Who wants any deviation in energy and PAR from a single lamp? If the goal is PAR UV and IR levels they could do so out of a phosphor blend evenly applied on the inside of the lamp. It's just more expensive to coat the lamps that way. They truly must take us for idiots. 





But for the sake of argument let's take a fresh look at China's coupled 'solution' another way. By coupling, or fusing the glass envelopes together to form a single lamp, the two ratings of 6500 and 2700 K are then advertised as the 'optimum bi-spectrum grow lamp'. What they have actually achieved under these 'combined forces' however would be 4,500 K lamp with a 45 l/w rating, as published by the mfg's own white sheets instead of an uniform application of a 12 blend phosphor whereby 85 l/w or 166.5 vel/w is achieved with the Inda-Gro lamps which probably accounts for them being a bit more expensive. I suppose that's a run on sentence.

Lastly the Chinese have given these fixtures an IP65 rating (enclosed in glass) as it's usually sold as a tunnel light where ambient air circulating over the driver will remove any heat off of the housing before it can bake the mosfets (usual failure) inside the housing. When is the last time you purposely installed any IP65 outdoor rated fixture in a 7 day 12/12 cycle grow room? 

IMO unless you thoroughly enjoy dealing with China for a warranty of the failed driver which they'll ultimately tell you is not covered under their thermal management exclusion (oh you didn't remove the glass?) then just go with an Inda-Gro as they price out about the same as the China direct and if any repairs are ever needed they do them in San Diego under the warranty. 

I feel better now but I better get back to work or plants will become my full time job.


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## The Steve (Jan 26, 2011)

The smaller bulbs I found have a 5 year warranty and the company is out of colorado. The owner is really cool and was able to work with me to get the bulbs I needed. Gladiator lighting.


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## solcielo (Jan 26, 2011)

xyzxyz said:


> *solcielo *
> 
> *Did I miss how long you vegged the clones for prior to flower? Also did you mention brand of induction lighting? I remember reading that for the colour K they are painted. Is this on the inside or outside of the tube and do you think the paint will fade with use shifting the colour K over their long life time? *


They vegged for ~3 weeks while I tried to wait for one last stubborn clone to root and tried to give her a couple days of 18/6. 

Lamps are the pro series 400W from inda-gro.com

No idea how to answer that question, I'm just a gardener with a little bit of engineering background  If Chaz' response to K rating wasn't enough for you, you'd have to contact one of the manufacturers about that. I asked about lumen depreciation over time, and while these bulbs will last 10+ years, you will start to notice about a 5% decay after 6-7 years I was told. Fine by me!


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## wanabe (Jan 26, 2011)

looking great may i ask why do you take off under growth?


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## solcielo (Jan 26, 2011)

Here's my post on that from a couple days ago in this thread.

"As to the trimming that's tomorrow's job. I'm going to be following Al B. Fuct's advice and trim off the bottom 1/3 of anything but productive stems with promising tops after this first week of bloom and I'll come back through at the end of week three to clear up any leftovers. Though if you followed my last grow the undergrowth was just as thick as it is now and I just let it go and got tons of popcorn <shudder>. I thought that would be a great idea for more production in fact it just adds hours and lots of frustration to your trim time. I guess I'm saying I'm not as worried about mold because I keep the tent open with a whole lot of air moving through and around it, I'll be trimming to encourage more growth in the prime cola's and save me some headache come harvest."

And it makes sense if you only allow the plant to produce buds at the top that they will be larger and more robust as the plant can focus all of it's later stages of bud growth in those few I've left at the top and on the primary stems. Just trying something new to me and frankly, I don't want to deal with popcorn growth anymore it's just frustrating when you're dealing with 25-36 plants.

Also I've been told these lights don't have the same penetration as HID and I just swapped out these for my old 1000W HPS. Using HID I still yielded like 70g of popcorn that was all light and fluffy. It probably wouldn't even be recognizable as buds with these lights because of the thick canopy and lack of real penetration.


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## chazbolin (Jan 26, 2011)

dunit said:


> The more energy in shorter wavelengths I understand and PAR its self explanatory but two things confuse me about this graph and if you have a clue maybe you could enlighten me..
> 
> Energy decreases on a linear curve as wavelength increases so I don't get why the relationship between PAR sensitivity and PAR photons is A-not linear and B-peaks at separate wavelengths?
> 
> ...


You're very welcome. I really enjoy seeing this data coming at me from different perspectives since it reinforces my understanding of lighting and this technology as well. Kudos are the least I can do. 

In response to your A/B query I believe I have an accurate hypothesis's for this phenomena however since we're wading in some deep and well populated engineering waters here I really want to be factually accurate in my response. Is there any chance you can reference me to the source for the chart you'd posted? It will be worth it.


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## dunit (Jan 26, 2011)

D.Gotti said:


> This isnt a response- Informational only.
> 
> The amount of light a plant receives, has a direct impact on its growth rate. Most plants tend to grow faster when available light increases, however their maximum growth rate is achieved at a substantially lower amount of sunlight than 2,000 micromoles. The point at which a plant receives more light than they can utilize, is known as the Light Saturation Point. For most plants, the optimum level of PAR lighting is approximately 500 micromoles per square meter (~55 micromoles per square foot), and if these plants receive much over that, they can reach the point of light saturation.
> 
> this lamp is 700umol at 12" and 600umol at 24". average 500umol/m2.


Well may not necessarily under the science but understand the practical application. I know when power consumption in British Columbia became an issue for a lot of growers there was a big swith up to 600WHID. I've got a friend who got them dialed in he was pulling only 15% less than under his 1000W using a 600W and he had been running 10-12 light shows for about 12 years at that point so not like he was a rookie with 1000's. 40% power saving and 15% yield drop......I always felt that 1000WHID were often "overkill" or as you put it "saturation" which was where that 25% power savings per gram came from.


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## D.Gotti (Jan 26, 2011)

chazbolin said:


> Greetings XYZXYZ
> 
> This thread is hitting on sooo many good points I don't know where to begin. The 'hide the pea' Kelvin ratings of lamps designed for growers is one of my favorite pet peeves since it generates enormous profits for lamp mfg's who push their products based on a certain Kelvin being necessary to achieve optimum results when 'properly' utilized within the plant cycle.
> 
> ...


Ill be testing several suppliers. Including the Inda-gro, M-land, Everlast and more. Also in different wattages, shapes, and colors.

If you talk to the suppliers you will find out that you get what you pay for. For DIY savers, a few options are out their but you still get what you pay for.


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## D.Gotti (Jan 26, 2011)

dunit said:


> Well may not necessarily under the science but understand the practical application. I know when power consumption in British Columbia became an issue for a lot of growers there was a big swith up to 600WHID. I've got a friend who got them dialed in he was pulling only 15% less than under his 1000W using a 600W and he had been running 10-12 light shows for about 12 years at that point so not like he was a rookie with 1000's. 40% power saving and 15% yield drop......I always felt that 1000WHID were often "overkill" or as you put it "saturation" which was where that 25% power savings per gram came from.


I average 430g per 600w lamp.


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## D.Gotti (Jan 26, 2011)

solcielo said:


> Likin' where this thread is going and love the back and forth about PAR and the charts etc... I'll try and get in there and take some more pics tomorrow.


Always glad to contribute. 

Pictures!


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## xyzxyz (Jan 26, 2011)

chazbolin said:


> Greetings XYZXYZ
> 
> This thread is hitting on sooo many good points I don't know where to begin. The 'hide the pea' Kelvin ratings of lamps designed for growers is one of my favorite pet peeves since it generates enormous profits for lamp mfg's who push their products based on a certain Kelvin being necessary to achieve optimum results when 'properly' utilized within the plant cycle.
> 
> ...


Chaz,
Thanks for your informative reply. I think colour K may be a little under rated along with the fact that it has not been fully interpreted. I believe that I have read how different colour K can effect different nutrient uptake. For a while there, LED were claiming that they could dial into the specific nm wavelengths required and confirmed by most to be the ultimate frequencies (Specific nm Red and Blue). Now that has been disproved over and over by the fact that the single wavelenght LED simply did not work. Now you have multi spectrum arrays that are evolving and becomming better each generation with additional frequencies, now involving Red, far red infa red etc) My stance? I believe that when we can mimmick the sun, that will be most benificial. Im sure each colour would be used at some point by the plant no matter how small, it would still be benificial in one way or another.






solcielo said:


> They vegged for ~3 weeks while I tried to wait for one last stubborn clone to root and tried to give her a couple days of 18/6.
> 
> Lamps are the pro series 400W from inda-gro.com
> 
> No idea how to answer that question, I'm just a gardener with a little bit of engineering background  If Chaz' response to K rating wasn't enough for you, you'd have to contact one of the manufacturers about that. I asked about lumen depreciation over time, and while these bulbs will last 10+ years, you will start to notice about a 5% decay after 6-7 years I was told. Fine by me!


Solcielo,
I have sent off an email asking the relevant questions to the manufacturer. Keep us posted on the progress. Looking forward to your updates.


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## dunit (Jan 26, 2011)

chazbolin said:


> You're very welcome. I really enjoy seeing this data coming at me from different perspectives since it reinforces my understanding of lighting and this technology as well. Kudos are the least I can do.
> 
> In response to your A/B query I believe I have an accurate hypothesis's for this phenomena however since we're wading in some deep and well populated engineering waters here I really want to be factually accurate in my response. Is there any chance you can reference me to the source for the chart you'd posted? It will be worth it.


I know I grabbed it off a Dutch energy conservation website......will have to look


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## xyzxyz (Jan 27, 2011)

D.Gotti said:


> I average 430g per 600w lamp.


Gotti, I can not believe I missed this quote. I only just asked that exact question in your vert thread. SO 430g per 600w, who many plants? Sorry to go off topic.


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## D.Gotti (Jan 27, 2011)

nine 3 gallons.


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## Turtle Koi (Jan 28, 2011)

subbed, very interesting, was wondering how was I going to reduce temps in the summer, here we go


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## solcielo (Jan 30, 2011)

holy shit things are looking awesome. just got back from a little out of town trip and about to work on changing the res (was dark brown when I left and is almost entirely clear now, lol); in the time I was gone I think they put on another 4-6 inches. will take some more pics and try to update tomorrow or tuesday.


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## D.Gotti (Jan 30, 2011)

Sweeeet! Cant wait to see some green!


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## crunkyeah (Jan 31, 2011)

I must say this is a pretty impressive looking grow lamp from the looks of it!

Subbed, eager to see what these bulbs can produce.


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## PetFlora (Feb 3, 2011)

I love the cutting edge. Myself on my 4th High Pressure Aero HPA grow- sans accumulator.

Can someone tell me how to subscribe? I tried the Thread Tool drop dwon, but the text is the color as the background, and I cannot make it out.

Thanks


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## Illumination (Feb 3, 2011)

PetFlora said:


> I love the cutting edge. Myself on my 4th High Pressure Aero HPA grow- sans accumulator.
> 
> Can someone tell me how to subscribe? I tried the Thread Tool drop dwon, but the text is the color as the background, and I cannot make it out.
> 
> Thanks



the lowest selection on the drop down is the subscribe tool

Namaste'


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## Burger Boss (Feb 3, 2011)

PetFlora said:


> I love the cutting edge. Myself on my 4th High Pressure Aero HPA grow- sans accumulator.
> 
> Can someone tell me how to subscribe? I tried the Thread Tool drop dwon, but the text is the color as the background, and I cannot make it out.
> 
> Thanks


When you post to a thread, you ARE subscribed. It's automatic. Any new replies to that thread will show up in "my rollitup".
That's the first thing I check upon entering the site. Good luck & good grow......BB


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## xyzxyz (Feb 3, 2011)

solcielo said:


> holy shit things are looking awesome. just got back from a little out of town trip and about to work on changing the res (was dark brown when I left and is almost entirely clear now, lol); in the time I was gone I think they put on another 4-6 inches. will take some more pics and try to update tomorrow or tuesday.


Get those pics up already!!!


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Feb 3, 2011)

Ugg Seriously!


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## solcielo (Feb 3, 2011)

Sorry all I know you wait with great anticipation for my next photo update LOL. That's the problem depending on a stoner for updates though, we tend to slack. When I tell myself "manana" I really don't mean I'll do it tomorrow just that I'm not going to do it right now... Also just started a new job and have back to back weekend family trips so it's a little weird for me right now but here you go. I'll try to break this up in a couple posts so it's not one huge lump of photos. 

Everything is going fantastic so far. This Saturday (2/5) will be the end of week 3 or day 21 of 12/12. 

With regards to my pictures, the names can give you a clue as to when it was shot. The 6 digit number in the middle separated by _######_ is actually the date the photo was taken. So _013111_ would be from the 31st of January, 2011. Going to try and keep all my files with this naming scheme for ease of reference.


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## solcielo (Feb 3, 2011)

decided to just do individual posts for each day because I shoot a lot of pics


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## solcielo (Feb 3, 2011)




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## solcielo (Feb 3, 2011)




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## solcielo (Feb 3, 2011)

the second picture has me holding a 2 foot plant stake. plan on putting one in for each plant this weekend sometime to help support everything. also gives some perspective on height of the plants. soooooooo many bud sites i'm stoked


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## medicine21 (Feb 4, 2011)

Plants look nice and healthy, great job!! That is one thick jungle though, not sure there is a light out there to penetrate it. Did you prune at all?


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## D.Gotti (Feb 4, 2011)

looking good!


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## done (Feb 4, 2011)

Very nice.......................I like your set up, Im doing 600 hps, 12 plants, 3 in hydo x 4 containers, airstones,1200 ppm 2 part (DNF) bloom. Im going watch, your gro.


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## Turtle Koi (Feb 4, 2011)

I'm gonna have to get back 2 u guys with this one, but so far it seems I've found a way of building a 800W induction with less than 150 american, spending about 300W for reals, been looking into it, will let you know, peace


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## D.Gotti (Feb 5, 2011)

not possible. i can assemble four 250w square lamps with ballasts, in a 1000w configuration that would be kick ass in a 5x5 with a 4x4 tray. if someone is interested i can have them assembled and shipped for $1500 each. dementions are 42"L x 42"W x 10"H.


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## xyzxyz (Feb 5, 2011)

Those plants seem to look very healthy. Looking forward to updates.


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## lightguy (Feb 6, 2011)

These are the real deal, looking forward to seeing the Buds as they develop. I hope you can provide some data about gm per Watt, quality and density.


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Feb 6, 2011)

Since you're the "lightguy" and i am truly interested in induction lighting please expand on your statement "These are the real deal". Also do you have a vested interest in lighting sales?


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## solcielo (Feb 7, 2011)

Lets try to keep things semi-on-topic and leave out people's credentials and whatnot.....this is my journal and all, not just an open discussion on induction lighting. Had to leave town this weekend and the two plants that weren't blue dream [blue venom (blueberry x white widow)] seem to be showing some nutrient burn with curling downward leaves and discolorations.... have some pics i'll post manana. All the other plants are looking superb buds are starting to get hairier and I think they've finished 90% of their stretch so far and topped out right around 2 feet tall. Someone asked if I trimmed, that's a yes. I took out the bottom 1/3 of anything not main stem or primary stalks off main stem following Al B. Fuct's super long perpetual thread advice on trimming. Seems like the buds hanging down low are developing a little slower so I think the claim of light penetration 20"-30" is pretty accurate.


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## chazbolin (Feb 8, 2011)

Thanks for steering it back to the business at hand. I think I speak for all of us when I say that your efforts are appreciated and the results to date have been impressive for these new lamps. That 30" of canopy penetration probably helps with a bit of fan movement from on high I would think. 

I had lunch with a bud who was telling me the induction grows of the same strain produced higher quality that he swears you could smell the difference during the grow. Then I tasted his latest and experienced a CRS moment so I just smiled and let him keep that theory unchallenged. Curious how are your gurlz smelling?


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## TheGaussianMan (Feb 8, 2011)

Hey man, this thread is awesome. +reps for so many of you guys. Currently I'm running roughly 800W (including ballasts) worth of CFLs (not all in one grow area though). I'm hoping to switch to induction lights after I make some money and seriously decrease my power consumption. If you had lower wattage induction lamps, how close could you get them to the plants? The thing that really fascinates me about them is that they are efficient, but also allow for close proximity to the plants.


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## solcielo (Feb 8, 2011)

chazbolin said:


> Thanks for steering it back to the business at hand. I think I speak for all of us when I say that your efforts are appreciated and the results to date have been impressive for these new lamps. That 30" of canopy penetration probably helps with a bit of fan movement from on high I would think.
> 
> I had lunch with a bud who was telling me the induction grows of the same strain produced higher quality that he swears you could smell the difference during the grow. Then I tasted his latest and experienced a CRS moment so I just smiled and let him keep that theory unchallenged. Curious how are your gurlz smelling?


Since my total body irradiation as part of my treatment before a bone marrow transplant my sense of smell is waaaaaaaay off and I don't think I can give you any reliable reports as to smell. With the carbon filter always running in the tent I think that works to clean a lot of the air (my fiance hasn't started complaining yet if that's any indication) but I just can't honestly say which grow was stinkier. My memory of my last grow under HID I never smelled anything when walking into that room until about the last 2 weeks of bloom and I was told it was pretty damn stinky. I can say that I'm noticing a ton of resin gland production and it seems to be covering more of the bud and surrounding sun leaves... I don't remember things looking this thick with resin-glands at day 24 of bloom in the last grow.

edit: out of the blue tonight my fiance mentioned it's really stinky in there already.... lol there you go


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## solcielo (Feb 8, 2011)

TheGaussianMan said:


> If you had lower wattage induction lamps, how close could you get them to the plants? The thing that really fascinates me about them is that they are efficient, but also allow for close proximity to the plants.


I was told if you don't monitor and adjust the lights every couple days the plants can and will grow right up through the grill to touch the bulb. Now if they were to do so I think that'd block a lot of your light and the bulb itself is a little hot to touch and within a couple inches I bet you'd start bleaching the top of the plants from too much light. 9"-12" seems to be a great and enjoyable height away from the tops of the plants for bloom. I'm not sure you'd want to try and flower (I think veg would be fine) with some of the lower wattage lamps as they just can't provide the penetration needed unless you're growing a bunch of 9" lowryder indica or something.


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## TheGaussianMan (Feb 8, 2011)

Thanks for the help, man.


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## chazbolin (Feb 11, 2011)

solcielo said:


> Since my total body irradiation as part of my treatment before a bone marrow transplant my sense of smell is waaaaaaaay off and I don't think I can give you any reliable reports as to smell. With the carbon filter always running in the tent I think that works to clean a lot of the air (my fiance hasn't started complaining yet if that's any indication) but I just can't honestly say which grow was stinkier. My memory of my last grow under HID I never smelled anything when walking into that room until about the last 2 weeks of bloom and I was told it was pretty damn stinky. I can say that I'm noticing a ton of resin gland production and it seems to be covering more of the bud and surrounding sun leaves... I don't remember things looking this thick with resin-glands at day 24 of bloom in the last grow.
> 
> edit: out of the blue tonight my fiance mentioned it's really stinky in there already.... lol there you go


AHHH 'stinky already' and this from the fiance. Certainly one of my two favorite smells, lol. It's damn shame you can't post a whiff.


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## solcielo (Feb 12, 2011)

yup 2 of those side by side running together for 800W total


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## chazbolin (Feb 19, 2011)

How's the grow doing?


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## solcielo (Feb 20, 2011)

Doing great. Resin production is off the hook and my trichromes are all fat-headed most milky no amber yet. Changed the res yesterday and gave them a little heavier dose of nutrients this week in anticipation of starting a 2 week clean-RO flush next weekend. May consider chopping off the top 10-12" and drying and lower the lights while the stuff on the bottom finishes and fills out if it hasn't entirely matured by then. Even with the undergrowth clearing there's still under-developed popcorn down lower. Should have just gone with 5-10 days of veg instead of 25.


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## BoOYaH!!! (Feb 20, 2011)

Looks good!


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## xyzxyz (Feb 20, 2011)

Solcielo good to hear all is going well. Throw some pics up dude. Been waiting a week for you to post! One of my most visited threads at the moment. How is ecerything going compared to your HID set up at this point and other points during the grow? All positive and negatives appreciated.


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## bibbles (Feb 20, 2011)

Hey, awesome grow, I was curious how much those lights weigh though. If the ballast is part of it, it can't be too light, you don't happen to know do you?


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## chazbolin (Feb 21, 2011)

The site shows the 400 @ 41.5" long and the complete weight (ballast included) @ 24.5 lbs which they recommend for a maximum 5 x 5 area. 



bibbles said:


> Hey, awesome grow, I was curious how much those lights weigh though. If the ballast is part of it, it can't be too light, you don't happen to know do you?


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## solcielo (Feb 21, 2011)

Trying to figure out why a couple of the plants aren't looking so great with downward curling leaves and burned edges. All 22 other plants look fantastic and loving life so I'm not quite sure at this point. ~day20 12/12


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## solcielo (Feb 21, 2011)

pic 7/9 shows the culprit of my curling leaves... the fan is blowing directly on it and this area got bone dry for a week or so (my lips are still chapped). All that super dry air sucked the moisture right out of the leaves and was making them look like crap. I pulled out everything and did some bottom growth trimming and added 2' metal looped plant stakes into each pot and also tried to trim off the ugly and mostly dried out leaves. ~day25 12/12


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## solcielo (Feb 21, 2011)

imo this is when sog starts to look really cool. ~day28 12/12


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## solcielo (Feb 21, 2011)

oh see that metallic tube going vertically in the back right corner in pic 5/6? I had a carbon filter with a fan blowing straight up in that corner and it was beating the hell out of a couple plants so I added some sturdy duct and an adapter up top that blows the air over the drivers of my lights. Really liking the change. ~day29 12/12


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Feb 21, 2011)

Nice! These are looking very viable.


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## solcielo (Feb 21, 2011)

~day 35 12/12 photo period


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Feb 21, 2011)

Are you sill aiming for 1g/watts?


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## solcielo (Feb 21, 2011)

Bonzi Lighthouse said:


> Are you sill aiming for 1g/watts?


I never was. With approximately 1m^2 of grow space and 800W jammed into it I think that's an unreasonable expectation. Most strains indoor will never produce over 400-500g/m^2 even in the most perfect of conditions. I'm aiming for 400g but expect 300g of medical grade nug.


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## chazbolin (Feb 21, 2011)

I love how close they grow to the lights. They're going to pop bro 
Are we at week 8 of a 12 week run?


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## solcielo (Feb 21, 2011)

xyzxyz said:


> Solcielo good to hear all is going well. Throw some pics up dude. Been waiting a week for you to post! One of my most visited threads at the moment. How is ecerything going compared to your HID set up at this point and other points during the grow? All positive and negatives appreciated.


Hey man thanks for following. I'd say everything is going a lot smoother than with the HID, much less ups and downs but my only experience with HID lighting was my last grow in the same tent and that was also my first indoor grow. I don't wake up worrying that the breaker flipped and my AC hasn't run half the day and the room is 90+ anymore because I don't even have to run an AC in there now. Even with the bottom growth trimming I still have some loose light-colored growth on the bottom of the plants that I left behind. While I had tons of popcorn (no trimming in my first grow) from the HPS-1000W before it seems the light reached a little bit further. Across the top and down the first 12-14 inches or so I can't tell a difference except to say the induction lamps seem to be producing more resin glands... the little girls are COVERED in trich's; pictures just aren't doing it justice. For vegetative growth and short-height sea of green flowering I don't think there is a more ideal light.


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## solcielo (Feb 21, 2011)

chazbolin said:


> I love how close they grow to the lights. They're going to pop bro
> Are we at week 8 of a 12 week run?


This weekend marked the end of week 5 (day 37 flower today) of a 12/12 photo period with about 25 days of veg at 18/6.


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## chazbolin (Feb 21, 2011)

well dip my balls in buttermilk and put me in a kitchen full of kittens! I see a 400 g future


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Feb 21, 2011)

I call 560g


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## xyzxyz (Feb 21, 2011)

solcielo said:


> Hey man thanks for following. I'd say everything is going a lot smoother than with the HID, much less ups and downs but my only experience with HID lighting was my last grow in the same tent and that was also my first indoor grow. I don't wake up worrying that the breaker flipped and my AC hasn't run half the day and the room is 90+ anymore because I don't even have to run an AC in there now. Even with the bottom growth trimming I still have some loose light-colored growth on the bottom of the plants that I left behind. While I had tons of popcorn (no trimming in my first grow) from the HPS-1000W before it seems the light reached a little bit further. Across the top and down the first 12-14 inches or so I can't tell a difference except to say the induction lamps seem to be producing more resin glands... the little girls are COVERED in trich's; pictures just aren't doing it justice. For vegetative growth and short-height sea of green flowering I don't think there is a more ideal light.


No need to thank me for following, I thank you for LEADING 

Those pictures were more than plentyful for an update!!! Just curious (and if you dont mind) any chance of updating what week flowering the pictures were taken in the posts? I think you are doing an amazing job and I hope that Inda Grow are following this thread. Ill be mentioning this thread and your user ID when making a purchase and hopefully you will get some recognition from them as said earlier your doing a great job not only in growing but by taking on the mamouth job of being one of the first to document a grow using this tech.


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## bibbles (Feb 22, 2011)

xyzxyz said:


> No need to thank me for following, I thank you for LEADING
> 
> Those pictures were more than plentyful for an update!!! Just curious (and if you dont mind) any chance of updating what week flowering the pictures were taken in the posts? I think you are doing an amazing job and I hope that Inda Grow are following this thread. Ill be mentioning this thread and your user ID when making a purchase and hopefully you will get some recognition from them as said earlier your doing a great job not only in growing but by taking on the mamouth job of being one of the first to document a grow using this tech.


I'm probably going to do the same, vie been looking for the right lighting for my next set up and this seems to be it, I must as though, one of the first? This is the ONLY grow journal I've been able to find with induction lights... A couple pictures and claims here and there, but no actual evidence... Links? :X

Also, I have to ask, what was the yield with HPS on your last grow(don't remember seeing it in the thread)? I'm also planning a SOG (tighter placement though), but I'd like a sealed room, and these sound better than a HPS set up, and about the same cost given all the extra stuff I'd need to stay sealed with HPS... Also, more even coverage.


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Feb 22, 2011)

I'm liking these as well. My only concern is their lack of acceptance in the general growing community, but I guess the same could be said for CMH.


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## xyzxyz (Feb 22, 2011)

bibbles said:


> one of the first? This is the ONLY grow journal I've been able to find with induction lights... A couple pictures and claims here and there, but no actual evidence... Links? :X


Hey Bibbles. Not to take anything away from this grow but its definately not the first. Here is a grow that was conducted in 2006! Good luck understanding it lol, but definate evidence. 

http://www.wietforum.nl/index.php?showtopic=18247&hl=inductie

If you do purchase, definately drop Solcielo's name and link to this thread. Inda Grow need to know what a great service solcielo is doing for them and the community in general.



Bonzi Lighthouse said:


> I'm liking these as well. My only concern is their lack of acceptance in the general growing community, but I guess the same could be said for CMH.


Dont be concerned with acceptance. Do what you like. LED wasnt and still isnt accepted by majority, but they are getting better and better year after year due to those that believe in the product and are making purchases. Otherwise it would die. Same goes with this, induction and in the near future, Plasma. Alternatives are the spice of life. The only people who are having a hard time accepting new tech like LED, Induction, and Plasma are the die hard HPS folk and with good reason, HPS is king and has been trialed and tested ove many many moons. Other sources will get there, they just need our support to become a reality.

As for the CMH, they now have a cult following. And why wouldnt they, they have a better spectrum and deffinately have their place in the game. There is no real valid argument against their suitability.


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## dunit (Feb 22, 2011)

Bonzi Lighthouse said:


> I'm liking these as well. My only concern is their lack of acceptance in the general growing community, but I guess the same could be said for CMH.


I was kind of in the same boat on this one. If they're so great why is hardly anyone producing or using them? In the end I think it all comes down to marketing. I think that HID is going the way of the dinosaur (but much slower) and when a company looks at whether they should produce the next big thing their choices are LED or Plasma. I think that Plasma may actually be the better of the two but it's not as profitable. With LED it's way easier to manipulate the marketing with different wattages/diodes/spectrum/lens angle/heat management and try to claim an edge. With Plasma they pretty much just work so how do you claim a competitive advantage. So the marketing machine chose LED and here we are.

Just my $.02


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## xyzxyz (Feb 22, 2011)

dunit said:


> I was kind of in the same boat on this one. If they're so great why is hardly anyone producing or using them? In the end I think it all comes down to marketing. I think that HID is going the way of the dinosaur (but much slower) and when a company looks at whether they should produce the next big thing their choices are LED or Plasma. I think that Plasma may actually be the better of the two but it's not as profitable. With LED it's way easier to manipulate the marketing with different wattages/diodes/spectrum/lens angle/heat management and try to claim an edge. With Plasma they pretty much just work so how do you claim a competitive advantage. So the marketing machine chose LED and here we are.
> 
> Just my $.02


When you say "If they are so great, why is hardly anyone producing them". In the begining the opposite question could be asked about LED. If they were so bad, why was everybody producing them. Obvious answer, for a quick buck! In my personal opinion, LED's will have their place in the community when they dial in the proper wavelenghts. As far as I am aware, no specific research has been conducted as to what specific frequencies must be used for optimal growth. Every plant would be different to some degree, and then again for each strain, so until that has been assessed, LED's will suffer or at least until a broad spectrum unit is established and works well. Plasma on the other hand I believe in the not to distant future will cover most bases in relation to spectrum.

I dont know why hardly anybody is producing or using induction. I was completely unaware of this tech months ago until I stumbled accross it. One possibility is that due to the life time of the product, it had been scrapped by large retailers due to a one off purchase being sufficient? 

Further, until now, I believe that high wattage units simply did not exist along with the ability to taylor the lights colour spectrum. All I know is that these Blue Dream are looking very good at this point and the lights have shown to work extremely well during vegitation just like T5's. So at minimum, having yet another option to veg plants with with a longer lasting life is just better for the community as a whole. 

Plasma initially will take the same route as LED, all about spectrum frequency / colour / par. As yet, there is NO company producing Plasma specifically for growing that I know of. The light sources are being adapted for growing but not produced at the source for growing. That meaning that the spectrum at the moment is less than sufficient for flowering due to the massive lacking in red. If you look at Luxims LEP (Gavita and Stray Light) the light is exceptional, very broad spectrum (although lacking in red and intensity) This will change if the source is backed by the growing community as there are rumoured higher wattage units in development in the 600w range by Luxim for this year with a possible red puck early next. Definately interesting times ahead.


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## dunit (Feb 22, 2011)

xyzxyz said:


> In the begining the opposite question could be asked about LED. If they were so bad, why was everybody producing them. Obvious answer, for a quick buck!


Ain't that the truth. My first LED experience cost a fortune and the only thing is was any good at producing was huge fan leaves. They have come a long way and like you said, as soon as induction addresses the proportionally lower outputs in critical ranges then I really think they will blow us away.


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## solcielo (Feb 23, 2011)

bibbles said:


> Also, I have to ask, what was the yield with HPS on your last grow(don't remember seeing it in the thread)? I'm also planning a SOG (tighter placement though), but I'd like a sealed room, and these sound better than a HPS set up, and about the same cost given all the extra stuff I'd need to stay sealed with HPS... Also, more even coverage.


Yielded 280g total in my last grow with what turned out to be an amalgam of different strains (mostly hash plant). In my opinion 3-4 plants per square foot (PPSF) should be your max with any lights unless you are growing some tiny little plants. I'm thinking my 25 in 9 square feet (almost 3 PPSF) is still too tight as surrounding sun leaves really crowd light getting to the undergrowth.


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## solcielo (Feb 23, 2011)

Bonzi Lighthouse said:


> I'm liking these as well. My only concern is their lack of acceptance in the general growing community, but I guess the same could be said for CMH.


Of all the considerations I have taken into my setup and lighting, the acceptance in the general growing community never crossed my mind and is not remotely a factor in any of my decisions. People really don't like change.


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## solcielo (Feb 23, 2011)

xyzxyz said:


> Plasma initially will take the same route as LED, all about spectrum frequency / colour / par. As yet, there is NO company producing Plasma specifically for growing that I know of. The light sources are being adapted for growing but not produced at the source for growing. That meaning that the spectrum at the moment is less than sufficient for flowering due to the massive lacking in red. If you look at Luxims LEP (Gavita and Stray Light) the light is exceptional, very broad spectrum (although lacking in red and intensity) This will change if the source is backed by the growing community as there are rumoured higher wattage units in development in the 600w range by Luxim for this year with a possible red puck early next. Definately interesting times ahead.


When I was researching alternative lights to HID I was doing so to reduce the heat output in my indoor garden. The little I read on plasma they produce massive amounts of heat, exactly the opposite direction I'm trying to go, and the reason I dismissed them very quickly.


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## xyzxyz (Feb 23, 2011)

solcielo said:


> When I was researching alternative lights to HID I was doing so to reduce the heat output in my indoor garden. The little I read on plasma they produce massive amounts of heat, exactly the opposite direction I'm trying to go, and the reason I dismissed them very quickly.


Solcielo... More research on Plasma is needed my friend. You will find that the 700w LG plasma and the Luxim plasma run cooler than LED (as a whole unit) The plasma lighting does not require an exhaust fan and some recent tests have shown that the Gavita LEP using Luxims puck increased a small tent size by a mere 1 degree celcius if memory serves me well. Plasma do not create much heat.

Check out Stray light plasma from Optical Technology and Gavita Hollands 300w LEP. They deffinately dont throw heat. Sorry to take it off topic.


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## chazbolin (Feb 23, 2011)

I like what I'm seeing out of this grow because it's an example of single lamp being used from veg thru flower. The plants don't stress out from changing lamps out to provide the different PAR UV and IR spectrum's that nature provides.

Forgive me if this remaining a bit off topic but I also had considered plasma lamps as an option to HID. Specifically I was going to use Chameleon's plasma lights strictly for vegetative purposes since plasma falls off usable PAR spectrums from 560 nm. They are not good for flowering and they'll tell you that. 

To achieve IR spectrums Chameleon suggests a $7K system that incorporates LED's with their plasma lamps. But at that point, with a 30,000 hr plasma lamp, why not just use an HPS for 2% of that price and just be done with it? I'd have had to seen 4 grams p/watt to break even with the expense of that setup.

That is until you consider what Solcielo's grow is doing with these induction lamps. He's accomplishing what LED and Plasma are doing for less then 10% of the purchase price of plasma and getting over 3 times the lamp life. That does not even take into consideration if the plasma would even outperform the inda-gro lamps or that the plasma lamps only effectively cover less (3 x 3) of the canopy as the longer length inda-gro lamps cover a larger 5 x 5 area. 

I know, maybe when Solcielo is done with this grow he'll have the $7K to compare the two different lamps for us or we could all chip in. Whatdaysay


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## chazbolin (Feb 23, 2011)

dunit said:


> Ain't that the truth. My first LED experience cost a fortune and the only thing is was any good at producing was huge fan leaves. They have come a long way and like you said, as soon as induction addresses the proportionally lower outputs in critical ranges then I really think they will blow us away.


Don't get hung up on proportionally lower outputs in critical ranges. The reason I say this is you only have to look at any HPS spectrum analysis and you'll see 'proportionally lower outputs in critical ranges' when compared to narrow band LED arrays designed for specific wavelengths of flowering. 

But as anyone who has compared the two type of lamps will attest and with ample evidence (Emerson Effect) available, HPS's wider spectrum has a photochemical advantage over the narrow band LED in both yields and quality. 

Now from what I've seen of this grow and the inda-gro lamps that Solcielo is using, these lamps spectrums cover about 95% of the UV and 75% (same as HPS) of the IR spectrums that fall within PAR and do so at relative intensities that surpass HPS (60% less watts) in comparative wattages while allowing the plants to 'morph' between UV and IR spectrums. Not something either HID or LED can accomplish from a single source.

This makes for what I would describe as an interesting grow wouldn't you say?


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## bajafox (Feb 23, 2011)

Interesting to say the least. I spoke to inda-gro for almost two months about switching from my 600w HID in a 4'x4' grow space to their Pro 400w. A representative of the company said I would need 2 Pro 400s to have similar results to a 600w hps setup. That was way outside my budget at the time since it would have cost me over $1100 for both lamps and absolutely no results anywhere on the internet to make me pull together than kind of cash. Now I am looking for alternative lighting to my 600w hps for the summer again. I've been looking at LED's but this thread has sparked my interest in induction lighting again.

Props to you solcielo for grabbing the bull by the horns, I am still in contact with the guy from there, they are less than a 10 minute drive and said they would cut me a deal if I came with cash in hand. I might just do that when this thread is done.


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## bibbles (Feb 23, 2011)

solcielo said:


> Yielded 280g total in my last grow with what turned out to be an amalgam of different strains (mostly hash plant). In my opinion 3-4 plants per square foot (PPSF) should be your max with any lights unless you are growing some tiny little plants. I'm thinking my 25 in 9 square feet (almost 3 PPSF) is still too tight as surrounding sun leaves really crowd light getting to the undergrowth.


I was going to go for the 4" Aquamist systems, I currently have an Aeroflo which I like more, but a large root mass makes it impossible to check on them, where as the former's lid can just be lifted... It's 32 plants in eight square feet, so 4... Oh, I thought it was more... :X

Also, general acceptance doesn't mean something is good, Grey Goose is awful, the guy even wrote a book about how there were no expensive vodkas, so if he made any vodka and put a high price on it people would buy it... And they do. Even if something has evidence to back it up, bleeding edge tech costs money that not everyone has, because proof or not, new tech isn't an investment people are going to jump at, so there are less producers, who then can charge more...

Pretty sure that's in Business 101, supply and demand, skimming vs penetration pricing...


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## k3nz1387 (Feb 23, 2011)

how are they coming along now?


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## D.Gotti (Feb 23, 2011)

Lets see some pictures!


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## solcielo (Feb 23, 2011)

D.Gotti said:


> Lets see some pictures!


Sorry falling into the manana pattern again... I'll get in there and get some pics tonight after work. Just started a new job little challenging learning to juggle it all.


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## solcielo (Feb 24, 2011)

As promised here's some shots from tonight (day 40 of 12/12). Tried to show the whole picture with a few top shots, some mid shots, and a couple of the popcorn down below. Plants are two feet tall give or take an inch or three.


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## southside420 (Feb 24, 2011)

Looking very nice, solcielo +rep for being original with the Inda-Gro´s. I´d be interested to hear your impressions on bud density up to this point as it compares to HPS lighting.


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## medicine21 (Feb 24, 2011)

Looks like you're getting there. Plant health looks pretty good! If you do the same style SOG next time, you will see better top colas if you hack off the bottom 3rd of the plant at least. That popcorn won't amount to anything and some plant energy got wasted on it. I went a lot more aggressive with the SOG prune this time and I will have only nice thick buds to trim. I see a big difference, maybe not in weight, but in quality and trimming effort for sure.


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## dunit (Feb 24, 2011)

medicine21 said:


> Looks like you're getting there. Plant health looks pretty good! If you do the same style SOG next time, you will see better top colas if you hack off the bottom 3rd of the plant at least. That popcorn won't amount to anything and some plant energy got wasted on it. I went a lot more aggressive with the SOG prune this time and I will have only nice thick buds to trim. I see a big difference, maybe not in weight, but in quality and trimming effort for sure.


I gotta agree with this. Best crop I ever had one of my hillbilly buddies was staying with me. He was an old school country/farm boy with no experience with MJ but ran tomatoes in greenhouses for years. I came home after work one day and he was half way through a bottle of Jim Beam and decided to prune my plants. He took three home depot 5 gallon buckets of trimmings off eight large plants. His theory was if you get rig of all the lower and middle crap in the shade that the outer edge will produce more. I could have killed him.

In the end he was right. The outer buds were the biggest I'd ever harvested and way easier to trim. I think that Al B Funct guy basically swears by the same theory and I really do think it works.

I left my ladies au naturel this run as it was a first run to test these LED panels and the foliage is so thick I will definately have some popcorn in the trunk area that's in heavy shade. Next time will trim them out for sure.


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## solcielo (Feb 24, 2011)

the first grow i did i did not trim anything. the second grow I actually brought everything out and did trim off the bottom 1/3 or so I thought, just didn't really go back through for a second pass and probably wasn't aggressive enough but if you go back into my posts a few pages there are pictures of the before and after. Even with the trim the middle of these plants is very light, but the density on the tops is amazing really. Just as good as what I experienced with my 1000W HPS, I think that once you give the plant enough light, it comes down to genetics and CO2 enrichment for the truly dense nugs. 

On an aside battling spider mites, noticed eggs laid all over one of my corner plants so it appears they've become resistant to SNS217. When I saw the struggling plant just now I trimmed off the hurt looking leaves with many eggs and soaked them to kill everything and gave the plant a good dousing in 217. Tomorrow I go buy lady bugs and let the battle really begin.


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## chazbolin (Feb 24, 2011)

medicine21 said:


> Looks like you're getting there. Plant health looks pretty good! If you do the same style SOG next time, you will see better top colas if you hack off the bottom 3rd of the plant at least. That popcorn won't amount to anything and some plant energy got wasted on it. I went a lot more aggressive with the SOG prune this time and I will have only nice thick buds to trim. I see a big difference, maybe not in weight, but in quality and trimming effort for sure.


Totally agreed. No light can bend or see through leaves so lollipop these beauties and the energy on the top makes for bigger buds and so much less trimming!

This should be good


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## solcielo (Feb 25, 2011)

chazbolin said:


> Totally agreed. No light can bend or see through leaves so lollipop these beauties and the energy on the top makes for bigger buds and so much less trimming!
> 
> This should be good


page 2 has some really good before and after trim pics


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## medicine21 (Feb 25, 2011)

solcielo said:


> page 2 has some really good before and after trim pics


You gotta cut all the branches on the bottom 1/3 not just the leaves. You should end up with just single cola sized plants at the end.


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## D.Gotti (Feb 25, 2011)

medicine21 said:


> You gotta cut all the branches on the bottom 1/3 not just the leaves. You should end up with just single cola sized plants at the end.


Exactly. Check out Al B. Fuct, his thread on harvesting every two weeks. He shows really good pictures of this method of defoliation.


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## solcielo (Feb 25, 2011)

aha well that makes a lot more sense


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## bibbles (Feb 25, 2011)

solcielo said:


> the first grow i did i did not trim anything. the second grow I actually brought everything out and did trim off the bottom 1/3 or so I thought, just didn't really go back through for a second pass and probably wasn't aggressive enough but if you go back into my posts a few pages there are pictures of the before and after. Even with the trim the middle of these plants is very light, but the density on the tops is amazing really. Just as good as what I experienced with my 1000W HPS, I think that once you give the plant enough light, it comes down to genetics and CO2 enrichment for the truly dense nugs.


Interesting, the reason I was asking is I'm looking at either water cooled lights, or Ice Boxes on three 1000W lamps in a sealed room with CO2. According to their equivalencies, that would be four induction lights, but I don't know if that is taking into account the fact that the ligths can be closer, uncooled or not. The cost ends up about the same after the water chiller for either lighting set up, but I want to be able to maintain 90F in the day (CO2 is most effective 90-95), 90 at night for the first two weeks of flower to minimize stretch, then cold snap the last week or two to bring out color and more resin...

Do you think these lights will be able to raise the ambient temp to 90? I'd assume yes, but I know HPS can... I'm also water cooling four reservoirs and the AC (filter, Ice Box, fan, defuser - circulation, cooling, and eliminating smell leaks). I'd rather not have that much water under pressure near my lights, and that's a good deal of extra weight, so it kind of depends on how many induction lamps I would need to replace it... Also, ambient temp is around or over 100 for 3 months a year or so - I was going to have the water chiller in the room outside the tent, and an AC in the window set to 75F to provide a layer of normal heat between the tent and the wall, and probably make it easier to regulate the internal tent temp as well, while removing heat from the water chiller from the room...

CO2 generator will also be water cooled... And the tent 10'x5, though the tables only 4'x8'.

Sorry about that, I've just had these lights bouncing around the back of my mind, comparing and contrasting the same things, since I first saw them... Maybe you can shed a little light on things... :X


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## joe macclennan (Feb 25, 2011)

pretty cool im watchin


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## solcielo (Feb 26, 2011)

bibbles said:


> Interesting, the reason I was asking is I'm looking at either water cooled lights, or Ice Boxes on three 1000W lamps in a sealed room with CO2. According to their equivalencies, that would be four induction lights, but I don't know if that is taking into account the fact that the ligths can be closer, uncooled or not. The cost ends up about the same after the water chiller for either lighting set up, but I want to be able to maintain 90F in the day (CO2 is most effective 90-95), 90 at night for the first two weeks of flower to minimize stretch, then cold snap the last week or two to bring out color and more resin...
> 
> Do you think these lights will be able to raise the ambient temp to 90? I'd assume yes, but I know HPS can... I'm also water cooling four reservoirs and the AC (filter, Ice Box, fan, defuser - circulation, cooling, and eliminating smell leaks). I'd rather not have that much water under pressure near my lights, and that's a good deal of extra weight, so it kind of depends on how many induction lamps I would need to replace it... Also, ambient temp is around or over 100 for 3 months a year or so - I was going to have the water chiller in the room outside the tent, and an AC in the window set to 75F to provide a layer of normal heat between the tent and the wall, and probably make it easier to regulate the internal tent temp as well, while removing heat from the water chiller from the room...
> 
> ...


In a 5x10 tent I think 3-4 of the 400W lamps would probably get you in the low 90's. Just running a 6" fan pulling air out for negative pressure with 2-400W in a 4x4 tent sealed up it went up to 94 degrees holding steady when ambient temps were in the high 70's. If you go with the induction lamps I wouldn't worry about perfect temps to minimize stretch; they should give you great results regardless of temp. 

As to which lamps to choose for yourself, you can look around everywhere and see that 3-1000W HPS + CO2 enrichment will definitely yield awesome results. I get a little sketched out running water cooling around lights (water + electricity + weed = ....) I think if you're running with short plants short veg you could match the 3-1000 with 4-5 of the 400W lamps. Or perhaps employ some kind of ScrOG under a few of the lamps and just a couple plants weaved throughout a screen watch a sea of resin coated colas pop up.


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## adamic (Feb 26, 2011)

thank you for this post. I love Tesla and while I've heard of this technology I had never seen it in actual use, much less for our purposes. Kudos and subbed.


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## bibbles (Feb 26, 2011)

solcielo said:


> In a 5x10 tent I think 3-4 of the 400W lamps would probably get you in the low 90's. Just running a 6" fan pulling air out for negative pressure with 2-400W in a 4x4 tent sealed up it went up to 94 degrees holding steady when ambient temps were in the high 70's. If you go with the induction lamps I wouldn't worry about perfect temps to minimize stretch; they should give you great results regardless of temp.
> 
> As to which lamps to choose for yourself, you can look around everywhere and see that 3-1000W HPS + CO2 enrichment will definitely yield awesome results. I get a little sketched out running water cooling around lights (water + electricity + weed = ....) I think if you're running with short plants short veg you could match the 3-1000 with 4-5 of the 400W lamps. Or perhaps employ some kind of ScrOG under a few of the lamps and just a couple plants weaved throughout a screen watch a sea of resin coated colas pop up.


I'd rather run more plants in a SOG than a few in a ScrOG, things are more expendable, and if I'm going to have to spend extra time taking car of one or the other, I'd rather be refilling reservoirs more often than weaving (at least at the moment, ScrOG is something for the future). I don't really care if I can control the night time temps (though it would be nice), but I'd like to get heat in that optimal range with lights on and CO2 flowing...

Also, on their site it says you can remotely mount the ballasts (only six feet away, but that's still something), so that will help when it's super hot I guess...


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## solcielo (Feb 26, 2011)

Putting the driver where you will (even with 6' allowance) would be helpful as that's the main source of heat. 

Had some friends come over and I had to seal up the tent so I adjusted the light and pump cycle a few hours later and disconnected one of the lamps. I woke up (a little panicked at first) a couple hours after lights came on and with low 70's ambient temp the 1-400W in a sealed 4x4 tent no real exhaust had brought temps to a stable 82.4F. So I think for a 4x4x7 volume 1-400W will bring your temps up about 10 degrees.

Poured in some lady bugs yesterday and they're having fun. The mites seem really interested in just one of the plants and I think with the SNS217 + ladybugs I have them well under control. 

Gonna start my 2-week flush in preparation for an 8 week harvest tomorrow. Today marks day 42 of 12/12.


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## bibbles (Feb 27, 2011)

Are you going to do 72 hours of darkness prior to harvest?

I say 72, and not 24 or 32 like most people, because the only larger scale study I've seen used 72...


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## solcielo (Feb 27, 2011)

i'd read about that and talked with a few friends that grow inside and everyone seems to think it is an additional step that really doesn't do much so I don't worry about it


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## bibbles (Feb 27, 2011)

In that study, they harvested one crop and left the other in darkness for 72 hours... which means it was alive for 72 hours longer... so maybe they just harvested the first a little early anyway...


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## solcielo (Feb 28, 2011)

I can pick apart the theory behind it, just hadn't heard from anyone that got comparable results using the technique. Essentially everything we're doing in growing good sensi-buds (seedless) is tricking female plants into trying to reproduce. THC is used by a plant to create the shell of it's seeds and much of it is concentrated in the resin glands that coat the plant (trichromes). We trick the plant into thinking winter is coming by changing the photoperiod to 12/12 and it instantly tries to reproduce by creating the buds. I guess the 3-day dark period causes the plant to freak out and make one last hard push at reproducing by putting out as much resin as possible in attempt to catch pollen floating around from absent neighboring males.


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## adamic (Feb 28, 2011)

georasta said:


> Years ago I had heard about a 72 hour darkness period from a hippie grower friend of mine. He swore it brought out essential resin and oil production and compared to my grows he did have runs with fatter resin glands of the same OG X Sour Diesel. This kind of pissed me off because both of us were growing the same strains in soil with the same nutes.
> 
> That got me sort of believing so having tested this myself between four different grows, same strains, same nutes I can tell from my experience that there is a noticeable difference in trichome (frostiness) production. I thought I was one of the few people that knew this trick since most people cut @ harvest with no dark period.
> 
> ...


Now I've got to try it on my next Kush blend and you got me thinking....

My grow buddy, I guess he's a hippie too because he hasn't really given up on the 60's, swears that the plants are still 'alive' after we cut them and they still if handled properly, will increase resins and oils. What do you think Is there anything to that or is he spending to much time communing with my pipe.


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## Illumination (Feb 28, 2011)

adamic said:


> Now I've got to try it on my next Kush blend and you got me thinking....
> 
> My grow buddy, I guess he's a hippie too because he hasn't really given up on the 60's, swears that the plants are still 'alive' after we cut them and they still if handled properly, will increase resins and oils. What do you think Is there anything to that or is he spending to much time communing with my pipe.



they are still alive after the cut...and they do increase production of cannabinoids afterwards...the reasoning behind slow dry and even slower long cure

Hope it helps

Nice job on the grow there soc

Namaste'


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## xyzxyz (Mar 1, 2011)

Indagrojeff said:


> This is pleasant surprise. It's like seeing your children off to college for the first time. Consider me subbed and let me know if there are ever any technical questions that I can assist with.


Welcome to the thread, Im sure as an Inda Grow Rep there will be a lit of questions fired off to you in this thread.


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## solcielo (Mar 1, 2011)

Illumination said:


> Nice job on the grow there soc
> 
> Namaste'


And welcome to the thread Lumen. It is appropriate to find you in my journal and I'd like to take a moment to thank you for inspiring me to take up the technology. After all your overall snarkiness and touting IQ and MENSA status after writing: 

"Ok, for the sake of understanding let us hypothesize that you sir obtained these wonder lights. And you employ their use into your grow. And these things just blow away hid with their performance in your grow. Are you not going to demonstrate to all how awesome they performed? Well I am sure you would as it can safely be assumed that one who posts on a marijuana growing forum would. So why is there not a single even adequate grow illustrated by anyone?"

amongst other absurdities really piqued my curiosity and made me start this journal. So I guess in a way you have been a big figure in promoting this technology if you think about it ... lol. 

And I always thought of myself as more of a greaser than a soc.

~solcielo


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## mimsy (Mar 1, 2011)

Beautiful looking girls! 
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/407692-my-new-wardrobe-grow-6.html#post5381407


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## solcielo (Mar 1, 2011)

photo update from today day 44 12/12. Changed to just clean water yesterday starting my two week flush.  Started at 49 ppm and it's already up to 440ppm after one day... lots of dissolved salts. Going to do another change and raise the drain a little bit to get a more full flood in a day or two.


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## solcielo (Mar 1, 2011)

uggggh so my tallest plant (beats all others by 2-3") happened to draw the attention of spider mites out the wazoo. The only reason I haven't just scrapped the whole plant is it's still alive and seems to be a magnet for the little fuckers. So I regularly wipe out a good % of their population with SNS217 and introduced lady bugs the other day and they seem to be having a field day. Going to go back through and trim off even more of the poor plants leaves soon. Something tells me that plants going in the hash pile.... 

There's a lesson here. I used floromite as a dip a week before bloom but then nothing after. Should have been doing weekly neem oil treatments (I have the stuff around, just was lazy and figured the dip + sns217 i'd be fine) and I'm finding out that where my blower fan hits the tent is where my mite infestation starts so there's a needed change there too.


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## xyzxyz (Mar 1, 2011)

Lights appear to be working very well. How tall are they at this final stage Sol? What is the density like?


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## chazbolin (Mar 1, 2011)

Stay away for a week and look what I come home to. While beautiful my guess is the pictures don't do them justice. I can almost smell them from here. 

I know it's still early but overall how would compare these lamps with your previous HID grow where I presume you used a combination of metal halide and hps? What I've been wondering is if light emitted from a continuous spectrum, such as the inda-gro, create a healthier plant from those that may endure stress from converting between UV and IR spectrums as is the traditional case with MH/HPS conversions. 

Also early on you stated that there would be no AC is that still the case? Are you having to do any extra venting of the tent from heat generated by the lights?

Thanks for sharing all this Sol.


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## medicine21 (Mar 1, 2011)

Haha, those lady bugs are having a picnic in there. Top buds look quite nice!


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## adamic (Mar 1, 2011)

I just ordered 3 of these lights today for a 4 x 8 tent grow I'll be starting in a couple of weeks. Hindsight being 20/20 would you recommend a wider spacing to move more light down to the lower buds? 

Other then a little ph burn (do you know what caused that? Was it the light?) these are some fine good looking fruit sir.


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## solcielo (Mar 1, 2011)

xyzxyz said:


> Lights appear to be working very well. How tall are they at this final stage Sol? What is the density like?


Just a couple inches over 2' high from the top of the pots they sit in. As to density the couple nugs I've checked feel just as dense as I got with HPS but excuse me if I'm not in there rubbing all my trich's off fondling my bud trying to figure out how dense they are  I'll be able to better show that when they're dried.


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## solcielo (Mar 1, 2011)

chazbolin said:


> Stay away for a week and look what I come home to. While beautiful my guess is the pictures don't do them justice. I can almost smell them from here.
> 
> I know it's still early but overall how would compare these lamps with your previous HID grow where I presume you used a combination of metal halide and hps? What I've been wondering is if light emitted from a continuous spectrum, such as the inda-gro, create a healthier plant from those that may endure stress from converting between UV and IR spectrums as is the traditional case with MH/HPS conversions.
> 
> ...


Pictures really don't do them justice, they are so frosty.... I did use a combination of MH/HPS before, MH for veg and HPS for bloom. Still don't have an AC in there but if I seal the room up with the tent going the room heats up to about 78 and the tent about 84. I like to vent it a little with an open window to the cool air outside and that keeps things high 70's in the tent mid 70's in the room usually. I did have the front door wide open as well as the side window (2 sides are backed up against walls) and had a blower fan going in but it seemed where the fan was blowing in air mites were starting to appear. So in an attempt to keep the lady bugs inside and prevent introducing more pests I turned off my blower and sealed up the front door and just have the side window open now for air exchange no blower fan. Just using the 3-mini clip on fans to keep air moving around in there and it seems fine if a bit warmer. Seems I'm in the low-mid 80's in the tent with this design and the room is a balmy 78 or so. Gets a little humid sealed up and I don't have a humidifier so I like to open the window for a little exchange every now and again. As to overall impressions you're going to have to go back a few posts on that one.


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## solcielo (Mar 1, 2011)

adamic said:


> I just ordered 3 of these lights today for a 4 x 8 tent grow I'll be starting in a couple of weeks. Hindsight being 20/20 would you recommend a wider spacing to move more light down to the lower buds?
> 
> Other then a little ph burn (do you know what caused that? Was it the light?) these are some fine good looking fruit sir.


Grats on the lights, I'm sure you'll enjoy them. In hindsight I would go with a smaller plant density like you said to allow more light to get to the lower buds if I were going to do another 25 day veg. However, I think if I were to employ a 3-6 day veg and some serious trimming (harvest only tops) I would probably increase my PPSF to 4 from 2.8, or do another 36 plants in a 6x6 setup in each 4x4 tray. Good luck finding that many clones of the same genetics unless you are dealing with professionals; I found it hard to find anyone with that many clones available and when I did find someone they lied to me and threw in a bunch of different genetics to make up the sale.... that was my last grow.

As to the pH burn, I'm not sure I see it. The one taller plant that looks like shit has been assaulted by mites a lot over the past 10 days and the rest of the plants show some nutrient burn on the tips of the leaves but that's how I like them, right on the edge of too much light and nutrients.


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## jackfrostking (Mar 1, 2011)

awwwwwwwwwww awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww u shoulda taken out the mite plant and considered it a loss and if others are infected cut early. : 0 it was lookin so good. im sorry mate


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## solcielo (Mar 1, 2011)

I'm not sure I follow. If I remove the mite plant the ones remaining that the SNS217 and ladybugs haven't got will just move over to another plant. Right now I have a concentrated base to attack them in and keep their population dented but you're recommending removing it and letting the remaining ones disperse and find another plant to destory. The struggling girl looks like crap but she's a magnet for the little fuckers. Infected makes it sound like my plants have aspergillis or candidia fungus' all over them. These are just spider mites that I've always had to battle in the last grow and this one. Honestly, with like 12 days to go before I chop everything down, it's really not that big of a deal just something I have to deal with.


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## medicine21 (Mar 1, 2011)

Since you're thinking about expanding plant numbers for SOG, I thought I would share my experience. In a 4x4' area I have tried 25, 30, 36 and 49 plants. So that's a 5x5, 6x5, 6x6 and 7x7 formation in a 4x4' area. The denser you go the more the plants will stretch. You also need to factor in the indica/sativa ratio of your strain for optimal results. So your mileage WILL vary depending on these factors but the optimal I found was a 6x5 setup for 30 Jack Herer plants, a 70-80% sativa dominant. With a 5 day veg from 1.5" clone, a 5x6 setup, a nice even canopy resulted 28-36" tall, which is what you should shoot for with SOG. So you will need to play with your veg period to hit those heights depending on your strain. Don't forget to cut bottom 1/3 of plant, W2 and W4 of flowering of course.

I think the ideal SOG setup for a 4x4' would be something like this:

X-X-X-X-X-X
-X-X-X-X-X-
X-X-X-X-X-X
-X-X-X-X-X-
X-X-X-X-X-X

...where X is a plant. Cover that with a 1000W HPS (or equivalent), dial it in, and you should hit 2lb.


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Mar 1, 2011)

Indagrojeff said:


> This is pleasant surprise. It's like seeing your children off to college for the first time. Consider me subbed and let me know if there are ever any technical questions that I can assist with.


I'm interested in a light for a DR60 (24"x24") with a remote ballast. is that doable in a 400W?


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## solcielo (Mar 2, 2011)

Bonzi Lighthouse said:


> I'm interested in a light for a DR60 (24"x24") with a remote ballast. is that doable in a 400W?


I'm no salesman but it sounds reasonable and a promising setup. You'd have to talk to the people at inda-gro for the specifics though I just journal


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## bibbles (Mar 2, 2011)

Bonzi Lighthouse said:


> I'm interested in a light for a DR60 (24"x24") with a remote ballast. is that doable in a 400W?


Inda Grow 400w is 41" long, so I doubt it, but they have smaller round lights which would work I think...


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## solcielo (Mar 2, 2011)

bibbles said:


> Inda Grow 400w is 41" long, so I doubt it, but they have smaller round lights which would work I think...


Oh yah I wasn't even thinking about the length of the light when you asked. I guess for that space maybe combine a couple of their smaller 100W or 200W that are round and maybe have a diameter of 1' or less would be ideal I think. If you really wanted to get crazy do like 4-100W's hanging down and some blue/white/red LED panels on the side and maybe even a custom 4-square design on top loaded with LED's that allow the 100W's to sit in the middle of each square.


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## solcielo (Mar 2, 2011)

jackfrostking said:


> awwwwwwwwwww awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww u shoulda taken out the mite plant and considered it a loss and if others are infected cut early. : 0 it was lookin so good. im sorry mate


Today was that plants' last day in the garden and I have to say you were right. It was definitely breathing it's death rattle so I cut it down and trimmed and hung it up just to get some weight comparisons and maybe make hash out of it. Freshly cut and a first pass trim it weighed out to about 52g so I expect it to dry out to about 3/8oz or so. 

Pretty sure I've kept the mite population dented but I'm noticing lots of young ones and eggs still in one side of my tent and can't really do much but just wipe them out every couple days. But I'm going to have to stop using the SNS217 soon so I'm thinking about accelerating my harvest time to early next week and combining some kind of clear-ex product to help flush faster. Just changed my water today and it was originally 49ppm when I poured it in and had gone all the way up to 750ppm with dissolved salts (normally I kept it around 1600-1900ppm running full nutrients). Should be a lot cleaner the next time I change it in a couple days. 

Trichromes across most plants are about 5-10% amber heads which is close to where I like my bud as it seems to give a more clear and functional high. Pretty sure a harvest next Monday or Wednesday will put me right where I want regarding maturity and not going the full 2 weeks maybe I can avoid letting these little spider mites from getting out of hand. 

Curiosity is piqued regarding the 3-day-dark-period and I think I may give it a try which will also allow me to seal up the remaining 1000 or so lady bugs I have currently refrigerated Plan to keep air moving around in the tent during the 3 day period with no lights or watering. I think all those hungry little predators should be able to keep the dented spider mite population under control till I chop everything down and with a couple days no water they should be starting to dry out nicely already.


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Mar 2, 2011)

Indagrojeff said:


> We can remote the drivers but I first want to qualify this a bit.
> 
> While not part of our normal online offering since the existing driver cable passes through the driver housing and into the lamp housing for a minimum cable length. In large part this is due to the physical protection of the cable but another issue for keeping the driver near the lamp is that in high frequency (240 kHz) signals, capacitance and inductance are directly proportional to the frequency and length of cable. Unlike normal 60 hZ power cables, these higher frequency signals and overall lamp efficiency depend to a greater degree on the cable length, conductor size, configuration (twisted pair, coaxial, stranded vs solid core, conductor spacing and insulative material) all have a greater importance as the potential for IR losses increases. In other words cable geometry plays a larger part in these remote driver applications then in standard 60 Hz ballasted systems.
> 
> ...


Yes that was my assumption, that removing the driver would remove the heat. I have my 400w ballast remotely mounted, but the HPS lamp still puts out the majority of the heat, I guess the same is true for induction. The 400w HPS is good for the foot print of my cab but I still struggle with the heat, and with summer coming up I'm looking to reduce heat, also looking at the Philips 400w CMH.


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Mar 2, 2011)

If I had the space I'd really try the 400w, but there is no way I can squeeze 41" into a 24" space, and every time I look at my wife's closet I get the stink eye.


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## zem (Mar 4, 2011)

using 2 400w induction over a 4x4 space is not the best way to test these lights, i mean you're using 800w so if you were using HPS 800w it will easily cover the same area. if 400w induction is better than even a 600 hps then you should try one 400w over 4x4 in order to test its efficiency. i'm sure that i could cover that area with 800w cfl's and get good results, that wouldn't make it better than HPS. don't get me wrong, i am very interested in induction lights, just want real proof that they're more efficient than HPS and this nice trial grow doesn't offer the proof. i have grown very nice grows with 2 400w HPS over 3x5. from your personal experience, do you think a single 400w induction could have covered that 4x4 area?


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## chazbolin (Mar 4, 2011)

I currently have three 400's in a 10 x 6 area grow. The longer fixture will cover the canopy evenly and a single 400 can manage a 5 x 5 area. The advantage of tightening this layout up is that I have better canopy penetration from the other source, less shadows, and zero plant bending towards the light source with the cross blend from multiple sources. With the smaller fixture housings like that of an HID there is more angular distribution of the light since the housing does not cover as large of a surface area of the canopy.

It's going to come down to preference. You can see the 9 week cherry tomato plants that Evo grew from seed in the SD Hydro store out in Lakeside. That's a 2 x 4 tent with a single 400 in it. Go back a few pages and there's a video of that grow you can check out.

It's FRIDAY! I get to go play in the mountains this weekend!


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## zem (Mar 4, 2011)

chazbolin said:


> I currently have three 400's in a 10 x 6 area grow. The longer fixture will cover the canopy evenly and a single 400 can manage a 5 x 5 area. The advantage of tightening this layout up is that I have better canopy penetration from the other source, less shadows, and zero plant bending towards the light source with the cross blend from multiple sources.
> 
> With the smaller fixture housings like that of an HID there is going to be more of an angular distribution of the light since the housing does not cover as large of a surface area of the canopy.
> 
> ...


 when i say "cover a 4x4 area" i mean it can flower this area as good as an HPS would and give me as good and big buds. so when you said it can cover a 5x5, would it flower this area canopy effectively? cuz the thread starter only tried 2 400w over a 4x4, thats no breakthorugh


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## chazbolin (Mar 4, 2011)

Put a single 400 up in a 4 x 4 tent and you won't use an MH/HPS combo again. I don't know if that can be considered a breakthrough but the quality and yields (avg 300 g/m) out of a single fixture make for a happy chaz.

It's off to work we go....later


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## solcielo (Mar 4, 2011)

zem said:


> using 2 400w induction over a 4x4 space is not the best way to test these lights, i mean you're using 800w so if you were using HPS 800w it will easily cover the same area. if 400w induction is better than even a 600 hps then you should try one 400w over 4x4 in order to test its efficiency. i'm sure that i could cover that area with 800w cfl's and get good results, that wouldn't make it better than HPS. don't get me wrong, i am very interested in induction lights, just want real proof that they're more efficient than HPS and this nice trial grow doesn't offer the proof. i have grown very nice grows with 2 400w HPS over 3x5. from your personal experience, do you think a single 400w induction could have covered that 4x4 area?


Yes.

And while I'm here to share my results I'm not here to prove anything to anyone aside from those on the fence about the technology and I only doing this for myself (i'm not a vendor and I'm my own patient supplying my own meds). While I think I have a somewhat comparable setup to HID I never messed with 400W HPS. 1000W HPS in a 4x4 was overkill on lights too and that's just the way I enjoyed growing with HPS my previous grow so it seemed logical to replace my 1-1000W HPS with 2-400W induction. I never was trying to go for 1g/W and never presented this as a good setup to directly compare to your 2-400W HPS in any way; I'm also not trying to sell you anything. 

If I wanted the "best way to test these lights" I would have a whole room dedicated to tent HPS grows with different wattages and another room full of tents with different combinations and wattages of induction lamps. If I wanted the "best way to test these lights" I would have set every grow up in the exact same fashion with the exact same strains. However, I'm not a salesman and I remind you I'm just here to share the results and possibly shut up some naysayers while I do it. If you compare to my last grow there are tons of differences that have made a difference in yield and plant growth such as using individual pots for SOG instead of just rockwool blocks laid out as well as a more educated approach with regards to this strain and nutrient needs. 

You might want to harass me about these things too and make impressions on the lights based on those factors while you're at it. However, it won't really affect anything and I could care less whether you are sold on the technology as I'm not a salesman and have no stake in this game aside from curiosity and my personal buds. 

And when you say "and the threadstarter ONLY tried 2-400W over a 4x4, that's no breakthrough" please realize I came down with leukemia in 2009 and started my first grow in late 2010 as a means to save some money on what I spending on meds. I documented my first grow with HPS and found these lights and decided to give them a try in order to get rid of my AC and not worry about heat problems while reducing my energy bill each month so I could pay for insurance premiums and prescriptions easier. Not to convince you to buy lights or change out your HPS setup.


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## D.Gotti (Mar 4, 2011)

......to get rid of my AC and not worry about heat problems while reducing my energy bill each month.......

I hear you loud and clear. Its an efficiency decision, nothing more. Not everyone realizes what it costs to run an air conditioner constantly. 

You must have been using at least 2000w with the hps and a/c. Now your using about half i would guess. Thats a huge savings! 

This is a thread that should be read from the beginning to understand this. Some people are comparing prius' to chevelles here.


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## Illumination (Mar 4, 2011)

solcielo said:


> Yes.
> 
> And while I'm here to share my results I'm not here to prove anything to anyone aside from those on the fence about the technology and I only doing this for myself (i'm not a vendor and I'm my own patient supplying my own meds). While I think I have a somewhat comparable setup to HID I never messed with 400W HPS. 1000W HPS in a 4x4 was overkill on lights too and that's just the way I enjoyed growing with HPS my previous grow so it seemed logical to replace my 1-1000W HPS with 2-400W induction. I never was trying to go for 1g/W and never presented this as a good setup to directly compare to your 2-400W HPS in any way; I'm also not trying to sell you anything.
> 
> ...



Sol, let me first say that was an excellent explanation of what you are doing. And the plants look awesome. I also offer apologies for the exchange we had on another thread. Also please know that it was never you that had pressed my buttons but rather the uninformed idiot salesman on that thread that did. This is a really nice setup and the non ac is a very valuable asset.

Would you happen to know the btu or measured heat productions of the units? As I am soon to build another room and as it will be sealed and I live in the high desert I would still need ac but if these truly produce less btu's then it would benefit me in much the same way as you. See even with the lights off during the day in summer here it would still get too hot.

So I hope you can meet me here as I stretch out my hand in friendship and we can share and learn how to grow the best plants as well as the best people we can be....

I send healing thoughts and energy your way....hope all is well with your ailment....

Namaste'


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## zem (Mar 4, 2011)

solcielo said:


> Yes.
> 
> And while I'm here to share my results I'm not here to prove anything to anyone aside from those on the fence about the technology and I only doing this for myself (i'm not a vendor and I'm my own patient supplying my own meds). While I think I have a somewhat comparable setup to HID I never messed with 400W HPS. 1000W HPS in a 4x4 was overkill on lights too and that's just the way I enjoyed growing with HPS my previous grow so it seemed logical to replace my 1-1000W HPS with 2-400W induction. I never was trying to go for 1g/W and never presented this as a good setup to directly compare to your 2-400W HPS in any way; I'm also not trying to sell you anything.
> 
> ...


 dude i never harrassed you, i know you're no salesman and i am actually interested in induction light just have no proof so i came here interested to see results but saw that you used 800w over 4x4 and that didn't sound like any better to electric usage than hps at all since one could use 600w hps to cover this. i still wonder how would a 400w induction flower a 4x4, if it's as good as a 600 hps would i will get it tomorrow, so i never intended on ridiculing in any way your idea on trying induction. never meant to sound harsh just pushing for info lol anyway, i will never even be getting any 400w anymore cuz i smoke very little and grow so well, that a 400w hps gives me way more than i want, so i go a long time between grows, and i like to grow so i've been looking at the 70 watt HPS for a nice microgrow, i hope you all the best in your health hope the weed makes it all better  cheers


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## D.Gotti (Mar 4, 2011)

big smiles people! no reason for butting heads. no finger pointing either. 

as zem said.....i hope you ALL the best of health and the happiest of grows.


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## adamic (Mar 4, 2011)

I just got mine in today and will start hanging them tomorrow. My first impression is I've never seen a lamp that looked anything like these before. They're huge and the glass walls seem thicker compared to any other fluorescent lamps I've ever seen. And yes I don't believe I'll need the AC anymore either so that is definitely a welcome savings. 

BTW when do you think you're going to harvest and are you still going with the 72 hours of darkness?

I really want to thank you again for this journal. I for one have learned a bunch.


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## solcielo (Mar 6, 2011)

Illumination said:


> Sol, let me first say that was an excellent explanation of what you are doing. And the plants look awesome. I also offer apologies for the exchange we had on another thread. Also please know that it was never you that had pressed my buttons but rather the uninformed idiot salesman on that thread that did. This is a really nice setup and the non ac is a very valuable asset.
> 
> Would you happen to know the btu or measured heat productions of the units? As I am soon to build another room and as it will be sealed and I live in the high desert I would still need ac but if these truly produce less btu's then it would benefit me in much the same way as you. See even with the lights off during the day in summer here it would still get too hot.
> 
> ...


Of course man no hard feelings. I apologize for being pretty touchy to you and Zem both as well. I've found myself being a little more wound up and easily set off than normal recently but I'm still tapering off a whole lot of steroids and other meds so sometimes I have to step back and just breathe and smoke a bowl or three. 


As to the heat produced I could take a stab that with purported efficiencies and total wattage ... they produce very little sound so I think any inefficiency could reasonable be assumed to be put off as heat. However, rather than possibly say something wrong I'd recommend talking to one of the engineers at the shop as I'm sure they've done such measurements in sealed containers to get an actual number figure of BTU put off by each wattage. Maybe when I empty the tent of plants and reservoirs I'll set up one of the lights and measure the temperature difference between tent and room and estimate BTU's put off but till then I just don't know ... not too much


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## solcielo (Mar 6, 2011)

adamic said:


> I just got mine in today and will start hanging them tomorrow. My first impression is I've never seen a lamp that looked anything like these before. They're huge and the glass walls seem thicker compared to any other fluorescent lamps I've ever seen. And yes I don't believe I'll need the AC anymore either so that is definitely a welcome savings.
> 
> BTW when do you think you're going to harvest and are you still going with the 72 hours of darkness?
> 
> I really want to thank you again for this journal. I for one have learned a bunch.


Hey man congratulations it's a little scary making the investment in something new but I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy them. When you say the glass walls are thicker do you mean the walls of the bulb? I assume so because the lamps shouldn't have any glass enclosure to the bulb it's just a metal grid. I've never really looked at any fluorescent lamps aside from smashing a case of them we stole from the grocery store against my friends one by one in fake light-saber battles as a little punk teen ... lol won't be doing that with these I don't think.

As to the schedule for harvest I think I've got the mite population well under control and only one plant was really taken out and it's harvested already so I'm going to stick to the original 8-week plan. Tuesday night after lights off I'm going to introduce my last 1000 or so lady bugs (bought 1500 for $8 originally and dumped about 1/3 of them in) and give them Wednesday to enjoy basking under the light while murdering mites then zip up the tent entirely Wednesday night after lights off and unplug the lights and pump. I'll leave the fans and filters running to keep air moving around but after that I'll stop watering them for about 72 hours and leave them in the dark with all those voracious little lady bugs to finish up the mites. Plan to use my vacuum cleaner hose as I trim to collect the lady bugs and do a full harvest on Saturday morning sometime. 

Just changed the reservoir 2 days ago and starting at 20ppm it's dissolved enough salts to rise up to 400ppm already and about half emptied from evaporation and thirsty girls so one more change/refill should really finish cleaning it up nicely in anticipation of only 3 more days watering and a harvest in 6. The first res change brought it from 10ppm to 750ppm when completely full.


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## solcielo (Mar 6, 2011)

day 48 12/12


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## solcielo (Mar 6, 2011)

Here's the one I had to pull out the other day because of the mites. Was definitely not going to recover so I figured I'd dry/cure it for hash or maybe to just smoke some yummy rosemary laden mite corpses with my bud ... little fuckers.


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## solcielo (Mar 6, 2011)

day 50 12/12


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## solcielo (Mar 6, 2011)

heeeeeeey!!!! get back to work already!


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## squarepush3r (Mar 6, 2011)

LED was the hype for the past few years, I have yet to see one really impress me. Too bad your test grow didn't work out I woudl really like to see if these have any potential.


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## xyzxyz (Mar 7, 2011)

squarepush3r said:


> LED was the hype for the past few years, I have yet to see one really impress me. Too bad your test grow didn't work out I woudl really like to see if these have any potential.


Didnt work out? How so?


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## chazbolin (Mar 7, 2011)

You're correct in that there is nothing acting as an enclosure around the glass of the lamp itself it's just an observation that with the larger diameter it seems like the glass itself is thicker clearly making it unwieldy for the saber battle I had never considered using them for. That had to be fun!

Anyway I got them all up Saturday and I like the layout and coverage. One thing I can report is that I had a couple droopers that I did not think were going to make in my closet grow that have perked up quite nicely in the last 48 hours since being under the new lights. So now I'll probably finish these under the new lights before I start the new grow.

Thanks for the pics. Is this strain typically an 8 week grow?






solcielo said:


> Hey man congratulations it's a little scary making the investment in something new but I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy them. When you say the glass walls are thicker do you mean the walls of the bulb? I assume so because the lamps shouldn't have any glass enclosure to the bulb it's just a metal grid. I've never really looked at any fluorescent lamps aside from smashing a case of them we stole from the grocery store against my friends one by one in fake light-saber battles as a little punk teen ... lol won't be doing that with these I don't think.
> 
> As to the schedule for harvest I think I've got the mite population well under control and only one plant was really taken out and it's harvested already so I'm going to stick to the original 8-week plan. Tuesday night after lights off I'm going to introduce my last 1000 or so lady bugs (bought 1500 for $8 originally and dumped about 1/3 of them in) and give them Wednesday to enjoy basking under the light while murdering mites then zip up the tent entirely Wednesday night after lights off and unplug the lights and pump. I'll leave the fans and filters running to keep air moving around but after that I'll stop watering them for about 72 hours and leave them in the dark with all those voracious little lady bugs to finish up the mites. Plan to use my vacuum cleaner hose as I trim to collect the lady bugs and do a full harvest on Saturday morning sometime.
> 
> Just changed the reservoir 2 days ago and starting at 20ppm it's dissolved enough salts to rise up to 400ppm already and about half emptied from evaporation and thirsty girls so one more change/refill should really finish cleaning it up nicely in anticipation of only 3 more days watering and a harvest in 6. The first res change brought it from 10ppm to 750ppm when completely full.


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## solcielo (Mar 7, 2011)

squarepush3r said:


> LED was the hype for the past few years, I have yet to see one really impress me. Too bad your test grow didn't work out I woudl really like to see if these have any potential.


damn i'm really disappointed that you don't see any potential in these lights. obviously you've been following this thread from the beginning because you can see just how much I really care about whether or not you wanted to buy these lights. because you have yet to be impressed by my journal I think I'm going to chop everything down and run it under the lawn mower 5 days before harvest, run out and go buy back my 1000W hps and air conditioner and start spending another $80 a month in energy so I have a better chance at impressing you. 

save your opinions for a thread that cares about them.


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## solcielo (Mar 7, 2011)

chazbolin said:


> You're correct in that there is nothing acting as an enclosure around the glass of the lamp itself it's just an observation that with the larger diameter it seems like the glass itself is thicker clearly making it unwieldy for the saber battle I had never considered using them for. That had to be fun!
> 
> Anyway I got them all up Saturday and I like the layout and coverage. One thing I can report is that I had a couple droopers that I did not think were going to make in my closet grow that have perked up quite nicely in the last 48 hours since being under the new lights. So now I'll probably finish these under the new lights before I start the new grow.
> 
> Thanks for the pics. Is this strain typically an 8 week grow?


I've found it best not to look at the clones within a day or two of transplant; they always look like shit then perk up. This strain is said to be a 8-9 week finisher and I always enjoy my buds a little less mature than more mature (more alert and less couch-lock).


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## xyzxyz (Mar 8, 2011)

For what its worth Sol, Im glad you documented this journal and I am sure that with time, each grow will improve as you work out what is optimal with these lights. 

Are you going to let them go the 9 weeks? Might be worth a trial thought I remember you said you like pulling them early.


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## solcielo (Mar 9, 2011)

xyzxyz said:


> For what its worth Sol, Im glad you documented this journal and I am sure that with time, each grow will improve as you work out what is optimal with these lights.
> 
> Are you going to let them go the 9 weeks? Might be worth a trial thought I remember you said you like pulling them early.


T-4 days to harvest for an 8 week harvest.


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## D.Gotti (Mar 11, 2011)

couple days left huh?


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## zem (Mar 12, 2011)

solcielo said:


> T-4 days to harvest for an 8 week harvest.


dude i hope you read this before harvest, don't harvest at 8 weeks, check the trichs, i have found that 8 week strains usually would take 10 weeks and the extra time you wait is priceless! you will get the best effect out of them, really makes all the difference. pocket scope is like 10$ radioshack. 
there's much potential in these lights, wana see them tried for double the area of your room! like 800w over 8x4, would you consider doing this? it would be awesome! and thanks for being that adventurer who tries new stuff  nice buds


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## solcielo (Mar 12, 2011)

zem said:


> dude i hope you read this before harvest, don't harvest at 8 weeks, check the trichs, i have found that 8 week strains usually would take 10 weeks and the extra time you wait is priceless! you will get the best effect out of them, really makes all the difference. pocket scope is like 10$ radioshack.
> there's much potential in these lights, wana see them tried for double the area of your room! like 800w over 8x4, would you consider doing this? it would be awesome! and thanks for being that adventurer who tries new stuff  nice buds


15-25% amber trich's with lots of amber heads and all all milky. I'm there dude. I bought a couple 60x scopes from fleabay for like $2 each months ago. Not going to scale up to an 8x4 tent for lack of space.


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## solcielo (Mar 12, 2011)

first plant harvested and trimmed weighs right about 100g wet so maybe that should dry to 15-30g x 22 hoping for somewhere around 400-500g. Top buds are super heavy and dense, really glad I put those supports in them. If I pick it up by the bottom it just bends all the way over to the ground for the weight on the end. Looking awesome too.


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## solcielo (Mar 13, 2011)

trimming sucks


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## xyzxyz (Mar 13, 2011)

Any final pre harvest pics? 

Sounds like you did well. Now to introduce Co2 for your next run cause you have no heat issues lol!!!


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## solcielo (Mar 13, 2011)

xyzxyz said:


> Any final pre harvest pics?
> 
> Sounds like you did well. Now to introduce Co2 for your next run cause you have no heat issues lol!!!


Really didn't get many pictures of the harvest for super sticky fingers and have been largely ignoring it the past week. Bud density was actually better than my last one because I gave it so much time to veg I got some gnarly tops that are super heavy, can only imagine what they'd look like with CO2. Depending how things go financially I might implement a CO2 system to keep the room around 1500ppm as I don't think I could just enrich the tent alone I vent it so much. Plan on carbon filtering air in and air out (4" in, 6" out) and sealing the whole thing up for the next grow should start up mid-April after a month break or so. 

I'll put together some final numbers and macro shots when I jar them in a few days.


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## canada (Mar 15, 2011)

Nice grow my friend!!! I would be very interested in how much it costs for the month to run this thing Iam thinking about getting 2ft 8 bulb new wave t5 with both spectrum. As cost and high heat are an issue! Give me some more info on this beast. Iam stuck on what route to go now lol


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## solcielo (Mar 16, 2011)

Normally my energy bill runs $50-$80 a month just depending on activity when not growing and with these lights and my setup going in veg (18hr photoperiod) it went up to about $160 and in bloom down to $125. MH/HPS was running about $240/veg $200/bloom when I was using 1-1000W + portable AC (9k BTU). If you can't afford ANY heat from the light source in your setup know that temps in my 4x4 all open and vented were 80-83 under the lights on top of the canopy when ambient temps in the room were about 70 usually. I also have no firsthand experience whatsoever with T5's, their capabilities, limitations, heat generation, or costs; just heard they are great for seedlings/clones and not that great for flowering.


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## canada (Mar 16, 2011)

WOW your running two of the 400's. It is a good turn out!!! So you are saving half you bills with decent results. Plus lights last longer to my knowledge. You going to stick with them?


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## Danielsgb (Mar 20, 2011)

Great read. Best journal for Induction I've seen yet. Happy Harvest.
Daniels


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## collective gardener (Mar 23, 2011)

Great documentation. I just wish it were 3 months ago! LOL. I just finished a 20,000 watt med op construction. I would have seriously considered these bad boys. A salesman saw my thread and sent me a little 50 watt induction to try out. I may just buy a 400 for a real test. I don't knoe if you can answer this. We grow very large plants to keep our numbers down...like 1/2 lb/plant. The plants are around 3.5 feet tall. Do you think these lights have enough penetration to produce density deep down into the plant? Our 1000 watt HPS's give us about 3 feet of solid buds. Thank you again for a great show.

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow-21.html#post5484866


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## dunit (Mar 23, 2011)

collective gardener said:


> Great documentation. I just wish it were 3 months ago! LOL. I just finished a 20,000 watt med op construction. I would have seriously considered these bad boys. A salesman saw my thread and sent me a little 50 watt induction to try out. I may just buy a 400 for a real test. I don't knoe if you can answer this. We grow very large plants to keep our numbers down...like 1/2 lb/plant. The plants are around 3.5 feet tall. Do you think these lights have enough penetration to produce density deep down into the plant? Our 1000 watt HPS's give us about 3 feet of solid buds. Thank you again for a great show.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow-21.html#post5484866


Not trying to hijack but how many plants do you get under each light?


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## meharmon (Mar 23, 2011)

@collective Induction lights are also used for outdoor lighting such as roadways to replace MH, and are seen to produce more light at distance. Since the light spectrum is better suited for plants, the light that does reach lower should be of better quality than a similar HPS, even if the HPS is somehow distributing 4 times the light. Testing just now, the 400W Indagro puts out about 6k lux at 4' directly under the bulb. After purchasing my Indagro, I found some induction bulbs available for about $1/watt whereas the IG was $1.75/watt. They come with a half the warranty(5 year). I will likely purchase somewhere between 200-300W circular bulb w/ reflectors to finish the garden. 
Consider, even if you had 2 x 400W indagros to replace your 1000W HPS you would still save a ton on lighting electricity, let alone bulb replacement, cooling, etc., and have waaay more light, but supposedly one 400 is enough to compete with 1000W HPS. I hope to get good results with my trees, but I am topping like crazy to get colas like "oregonkush" on youtube. (who uses 1000W HPS, lol)
If you have the chance to change lights out you should give it a shot as the elec savings pay for themselves handily, especially if you're in California.


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## chazbolin (Mar 23, 2011)

From what I've seen any of the standard triphoshor blends will not be emit broad PAR UV-RED spectrum's but instead will concentrate energy to a greater degree on providing light within human vision ranges. When I bought my Inda-Gro 400 watt lights I was influenced by the lowered 500 nm ranges and wider PAR ranges of those lamps spectrums.

As far as intensity the lower wattages, 300 and less, do not IMO deliver enough intensity for a grow area beyond 36" sq so for me it was really no choice. The 400 will average 600 umoles sq/m. However to compare the 400 to a 1000 watt HPS as an exact equal is inaccurate and should not be your comparison. 

Take a look at a an HPS SDG to see just how much energy an HPS produces above PAR which of course is wasted energy to provide saturation but you'll see that the HPS wavelengths fall off rapidly @ 630 nm and do not generate any far red energy. 

Per one of the engineers I spoke with at inda-gro if you were to take 3 of your 1000 watt HPS out you'd replace them with 4 of their 400 watt lights the yields would be on par with the HID grow lights at 50% less power and no need for supplemental AC. 

While that's obviously a savings in electric the added advantage of not having to change a UV lamp out from VEG to an HPS for flower has meant less stress on the plant and the quality of the product I've found has improved over my previous MH-HPS grows.

Cheers


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## solcielo (Mar 23, 2011)

canada said:


> WOW your running two of the 400's. It is a good turn out!!! So you are saving half you bills with decent results. Plus lights last longer to my knowledge. You going to stick with them?


definitely


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## solcielo (Mar 23, 2011)

collective gardener said:


> Great documentation. I just wish it were 3 months ago! LOL. I just finished a 20,000 watt med op construction. I would have seriously considered these bad boys. A salesman saw my thread and sent me a little 50 watt induction to try out. I may just buy a 400 for a real test. I don't knoe if you can answer this. We grow very large plants to keep our numbers down...like 1/2 lb/plant. The plants are around 3.5 feet tall. Do you think these lights have enough penetration to produce density deep down into the plant? Our 1000 watt HPS's give us about 3 feet of solid buds. Thank you again for a great show.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow-21.html#post5484866


If they weren't too crowded I think you could get comparable results but with a SOG the canopy really diminishes what gets through to the lower growth. I'm going to try 16 plants next time with a shorter veg to reduce crowding and see how it goes. If nothing else these would be wonderful lights to veg the plants with if you're going for huge yields per plant.


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## solcielo (Mar 23, 2011)

When i was trimming or anytime I hold them out in the light they just sparkle. Haven't seen bud that scintillates like this in a long time. One thing though I think I kept the light a little too close and toasted the tops of some of the buds because they have a much darker hue but still smoke great. Finally got everything in jars, just burping them now will give final weights in a day or two. Looks to be 250g +/-50g thereabouts. Really curious how CO2 enrichment would change my yields and bud formation.


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## Bonzi Lighthouse (Mar 23, 2011)

For Best use of new technology I award this Orson


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## chazbolin (Mar 23, 2011)

Let the curing begin. Are we about a month out for our first taste and when is our next grow? It seems like the lessons learned will pay dividends on the next grow.

Orson would approve!


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## collective gardener (Mar 24, 2011)

dunit said:


> Not trying to hijack but how many plants do you get under each light?


Right now we have around 3, but we are aiming for 4. The additional 10 plants will be small "filler" plants placed in the 4 way intercection between 4 large plants. We have been noticing a large "light hole" located there. It's either that, or try harder to train the plants to be square. LOL


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## collective gardener (Mar 24, 2011)

meharmon said:


> @collective Induction lights are also used for outdoor lighting such as roadways to replace MH, and are seen to produce more light at distance. Since the light spectrum is better suited for plants, the light that does reach lower should be of better quality than a similar HPS, even if the HPS is somehow distributing 4 times the light. Testing just now, the 400W Indagro puts out about 6k lux at 4' directly under the bulb. After purchasing my Indagro, I found some induction bulbs available for about $1/watt whereas the IG was $1.75/watt. They come with a half the warranty(5 year). I will likely purchase somewhere between 200-300W circular bulb w/ reflectors to finish the garden.
> Consider, even if you had 2 x 400W indagros to replace your 1000W HPS you would still save a ton on lighting electricity, let alone bulb replacement, cooling, etc., and have waaay more light, but supposedly one 400 is enough to compete with 1000W HPS. I hope to get good results with my trees, but I am topping like crazy to get colas like "oregonkush" on youtube. (who uses 1000W HPS, lol)
> If you have the chance to change lights out you should give it a shot as the elec savings pay for themselves handily, especially if you're in California.


We're very exited about these lights. I think I would use 2 x 400 watt inductions for every 1000 HPS I have now. The bulb savings alone is over $3,000/year. My cooling costs are another $3,000. In just 3 years they're paid for. But the real potential payback would be a yield increase. 

I promised the gentleman who sent me the lights to do a test with a 50 watt induction vs. a 90 watt LED vs. a 250 watt HPS. I have a feeling before the test is complete I'll be buying a 400 watt induction light to see what it can do. Based on this thread, I have hight hopes. The thought of actually having to use a heater in the winter is blowing my mind.


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## dunit (Mar 24, 2011)

collective gardener said:


> The thought of actually having to use a heater in the winter is blowing my mind.


I switched from HPS to LED and not only did I toss my A/C but I had to put down an insulated sub-floor to cover the concrete to keep the temp up and I still have a small heater....lol

I think LED and induction have a lot in common in terms of efficiency and thermal savings. LED is certainly the big push but I only think it's because induction isn't as marketable. I don't mean from a consumer benefit standpoint, I mean from a big business fleecing the consumer standpoint. With LED you can talk about lens angle, multi-spectrum, thermal management, by-pass resistors, delay circuitry, individual LED wattage, total wattage and a host of other stuff to claim a marketing advantage. Where's the ad speak for induction? Apply power, get light. Tough for the marketing team. Awesome potential though.


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## The Steve (Mar 28, 2011)

collective gardener said:


> I promised the gentleman who sent me the lights to do a test with a 50 watt induction vs. a 90 watt LED vs. a 250 watt HPS. I have a feeling before the test is complete I'll be buying a 400 watt induction light to see what it can do. Based on this thread, I have hight hopes. The thought of actually having to use a heater in the winter is blowing my mind.


Do you have a journal up for this? Is it the bi-spectrum 50w one? I'm doing a grow with two 40w inductions right now. I love induction lighting so far but not many people use the lower watts. What do you think so far?


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## solcielo (Mar 29, 2011)

So just did a final burp/weigh and everything came out to 241g total all dried out. Left it hanging a little long (6 days) so it's probably a little crispier than I would have liked but burns very smooth and is exactly the way I really enjoy this strain. Quite conversational and when I burn some at home I find myself cleaning house like 30 minutes later. 179g in quality nugs and another 62g in what i consider popcorn or loose growth (neither figure includes the prematurely harvested plant  ...) I really should have been more aggressive in trimming. I thought removing the little nodes off all the shoots was the idea when in reality I should have chopped off at least 1/2 of those shoots. Still have a lot of learning to do as this completes my second full indoor grow ever. Oh and I showed the slightly burned tops of some of the plants to a friend and we deduced it was burn from me seeing mites with lights on around week 6 and spraying that dilute rosemary spray on it combined with the light slightly toasted a couple of the tops...can't tell a difference in smoke.

After another 2 week hiatus I plan on sterilizing the room, adding a tarp underneath to help keep the area sterile and easier to clean around, and with the central air running in my house for summer I am going to seal the tent up entirely and put a 4" fan with carbon filter coming in and a 6" fan with carbon filter going out so that will be a whole lot of clean air moving around enough to keep things cool enough I think. Going to do 16-20 rooted clones with about 10 days to veg. Also considering changing strain to skunk#1 or super skunk as it has such a fast finish time on the flowers (7 weeks). Will definitely be more aggressive and thorough with fluoromite in veg and consistent neem oil treatments after that to prevent spider mites (%#@%) from coming back. Unless I just find a really great deal on craigslist I will probably hold off with CO2 enrichment till the following cycle but that's eventually going to make it's way into my garden. 

Thus completes this journal; questions, sales pitches, and curiosities should take a look at some of the general induction lighting threads. Of course positive feedback is always welcome as I never get tired of having my ego stroked. I was hoping for a higher yield but I still am quite amateur and could have done some things better I'll give a try next time; certainly nothing negative to say about these lights they have been a great replacement to the 1000W MH/HPS for my situation. Kuddo's all around to those who helped make this a more informative and helpful thread to those looking to use a (presently) non-conventional and arguably superior light source.


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## xyzxyz (Mar 29, 2011)

Well done and thanks for the show. If you can obtain it, I would definately suggest the addition of Co2. As you have shown, these lights work well however to utilise their full potential, Co2 is a necessity. Have you lookied into the Under Current System? I think with the massive reduction in heat from using the induction lights , a sealed room with Co2 and the use of an Under Current system (Easy do DIY especially on small scale) and it would blow you away. Will be looking forward to your next run and hopefully improve upon the GPW.


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## bhicks (Mar 30, 2011)

"*So just did a final burp/weigh and everything came out to 241g total all dried out."
Question - is that total (i.e. both lights), or per light?
*


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## chazbolin (Mar 31, 2011)

Dominique if 35% of the products are not 'localized' in China then we have our work cut out for us. There is an ideological shift occurring in America and much of it has to do with China trampling on us by taking our jobs (how do you compete with $7.00 per day labor?) our technologies, and sending us inferior products. 

Germany has it right and we're going to take back that mentality here in the USA. German products are more expensive but people around the globe are willing to pay more for that quality, attention to detail and customer service. 

I have no problem with buying quality products from anywhere they may be produced and will always support a fair trade principal but you guys @ mland or genesis et al don't get it. You throw your spiel into a good journal with a late game ridicule of the very technology that you're trying to promote. 

Socielo has only completed his second grow here. So he's still learning his way around and I know that he's going to get better results as he goes along. For him to journal his work so everyone can see it is a contribution to our community. Don't insult his choice of lamps. I've seen mland advertised for as much as $1,400 from your North American 'distributors'. Which means nothing since you'll sell direct anyway and then when there is a problem with the direct sale it ends up not being under warranty for whatever byzantine reasoning you guys cook up over there. 

quit trash talking other companies and address your own problems; http://www.worldlawdirect.com/forum/consumer-complaints/43716-bi-spectrum-super-grow-lights-mland-global-china.html 

thanks for this journal Solcielo. I look forward to seeing your improvements. 

how's the smoke?


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## solcielo (Apr 1, 2011)

delicious and everyone that tries it loves it. happy as a kitty in a field of catnip.


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## KawiZZR (Apr 1, 2011)

What made you decide to go with a SOG over a SCROG? How do you think these lights would perform in a SCROG?


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## solcielo (Apr 1, 2011)

Availability of clones and much quicker results. I think they would do really well with scrog style growing especially since most people growing that way are dealing with height issues and you can put these lamps really close to the top.


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## KawiZZR (Apr 2, 2011)

solcielo said:


> Availability of clones and much quicker results. I think they would do really well with scrog style growing especially since most people growing that way are dealing with height issues and you can put these lamps really close to the top.


Thank you, what is the closest you would allow these lights to get to the tops and what kind of penetration would they have at that height?


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## solcielo (Apr 4, 2011)

KawiZZR said:


> Thank you, what is the closest you would allow these lights to get to the tops and what kind of penetration would they have at that height?


I was advised to keep them 2' away during veg and 1' away during bloom but that the plants can grow up into the grill of the lights themselves and touch the bulb but may bleach some if you let them get that close. I would advise trimming everything past the second or third node to make for about 14"-18" of heavy frosty nug with minimal popcorn.


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## KawiZZR (Apr 4, 2011)

solcielo said:


> I was advised to keep them 2' away during veg and 1' away during bloom but that the plants can grow up into the grill of the lights themselves and touch the bulb but may bleach some if you let them get that close. I would advise trimming everything past the second or third node to make for about 14"-18" of heavy frosty nug with minimal popcorn.


Sounds good, I'd be perfectly happy with that depth of coverage. Gonna consider these for when I eventually upgrade to a larger space. My largest area available right now is just 4" too narrow to fit one of these.


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## solcielo (Apr 21, 2011)

Happy 4/20 all... if a bit belated. So I bought another set of clones (LA Confidential x 20 as well as God's Gift x 5) and soaking rockwool as I type, preparing for transplant tomorrow. Will start a new journal soon under much the same conditions with some pics soon.


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## mykeflowers (Jun 7, 2011)

I am sold! I am buying a few for my next grow. Great job dude!!!!!!!


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## solcielo (Jun 9, 2011)

mykeflowers said:


> I am sold! I am buying a few for my next grow. Great job dude!!!!!!!


Good luck with that!


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## solcielo (Jun 9, 2011)

solcielo said:


> Happy 4/20 all... if a bit belated. So I bought another set of clones (LA Confidential x 20 as well as God's Gift x 5) and soaking rockwool as I type, preparing for transplant tomorrow. Will start a new journal soon under much the same conditions with some pics soon.



As promised

enjoy


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## Donzettie (Sep 5, 2011)

Newbie here. I was looking at a Quantum Bad Boy 16 lamp T5HO(864 watts) for $400, set up over a 4x4 area. Can anyone give me an idea if the same watts of T5HO would be comparable to the two 400 watt lights in this thread?


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## Rian (Sep 27, 2011)

Hey no fucking on the job! lol


solcielo said:


> View attachment 1478641
> 
> heeeeeeey!!!! get back to work already!


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## Lucius Vorenus (Nov 16, 2011)

Is there even a remote chance that the OP is also the person that owns Inda-Grow? 

No. Probably not.

Still subbed though!


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## Lucius Vorenus (Nov 16, 2011)

canada said:


> WOW your running two of the 400's. It is a good turn out!!! So you are saving half you bills with decent results. Plus lights last longer to my knowledge. You going to stick with them?


But isn't the cost of these lights like $900 each?????? A 600 watt HPS setup with bulb and ballast would run about $225.


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## Lucius Vorenus (Nov 17, 2011)

^they should probably learn to spell Trichomes before putting out another ad video.


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## solcielo (Nov 21, 2011)

LOL I wish I owned a company.... my current physical condition of relapsed leukemia keeps me from doing anything but go to the hospital.

Can't do more than explicitly say I do not work for or have any business/financial/familial/any other relationship with Inda-Gro. I stumbled on them after running 1 MH/HPS grow and researching LED's as a means to lower my energy costs (cooling mainly) I stumbled onto the subject of induction lamps. Little more searching (not much to find on the internet except negative nancies unwilling to try anything new)and I found www.inda-gro.com and saw they were in San Diego; I live in Southern California also. I also found a Canadian company that I'm sure makes wonderful products as well; go find them and someone post something about them for comparison's sake. Or order the bulbs from China wholesale and assemble the driver with your own manufactured hood. I enjoy inda-gro because I can just drive over and ask questions or whatever and the lights were about $700 each with a generous discount when I talked with the sales person about my cancer and disability and ambitions to post a journal. There's not a lot of info on the subject yet.

Due to increasingly and intrusive big gubment i will no longer run a journal until political winds on the subject change a bit. I can't do anything right now because of my leukemia and treatments so i had to give up some F1 mom's I had just ordered  

Glad to see continued interest in the thread I was hoping it would be in a educational forum instead of trying to vet myself to a bunch of people I've never met and advertisements for hijackers. I suggest you read through all 3 of my grows to see how this has progressed before replying.


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## solcielo (Nov 21, 2011)

calbunn said:


> A few pics of the
> 
> Tangerine Dream
> Waikiki Queen
> ...


Looks fantastic love seeing the results. The video was very informative as well thanks for putting the time and effort to do the comparisons those are great. Grats


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## thelightstuff (Jan 4, 2012)

See more user supplied grow videos click to go to this YouTube channel. These have the new Pro420PAR lights being tested, they do a better job on flowers and better grows too.


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## Psytranceorgy (Jan 5, 2012)

solcielo said:


> So just did a final burp/weigh and everything came out to 241g total all dried out...
> 
> ...Thus completes this journal; questions, sales pitches, and curiosities should take a look at some of the general induction lighting threads. Of course positive feedback is always welcome as I never get tired of having my ego stroked. I was hoping for a higher yield but I still am quite amateur and could have done some things better I'll give a try next time; certainly nothing negative to say about these lights they have been a great replacement to the 1000W MH/HPS for my situation. Kuddo's all around to those who helped make this a more informative and helpful thread to those looking to use a (presently) non-conventional and arguably superior light source.


Fantastic thread! Thanks for taking the induction plunge and sharing with all of us Solcielo! BRAVO +rep


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## Humboldt DWC (May 12, 2013)

Im having trouble finding some key info in the thread. 1. how many plants were there under the lights? how long did you veg? What was the total yield?


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## Humboldt DWC (Aug 4, 2013)

ok I found the info, (2) 400 watt inductions lights grew 241 grams including all the small stuff. Thats .3 grams/watt. Ok i guess if your new and had spider mites but not at all a good promotion for induction lights (not that promoting these lights was your goal.

Given the equation stated earlier in the thread that 3000 watts of HPS would be equal to 1600 watts of Induction, then 

-it takes 25% more space for induction to equal HPS. 
-it take 533.33 watts of induction to equal 1000 watts of HPS 
-a 400 watts of induction is equal to a 750 watt HPS.
-induction lights use only 47% of the energy that a HPS does to grow the same amount but 25% more space.


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## Psyphish (Apr 17, 2015)

Induction lights obviously suck ass. 250~ grams with 800 watts is ridiculously low. I get 300 grams with 315w CDM and 4 plants.

[edit] Yeah I know I know, old thread, but since everyone else just praised this grow I had to say something.


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## OneHitDone (May 7, 2015)

dunit said:


> I switched from HPS to LED and not only did I toss my A/C but I had to put down an insulated sub-floor to cover the concrete to keep the temp up and I still have a small heater....lol
> 
> I think LED and induction have a lot in common in terms of efficiency and thermal savings. LED is certainly the big push but I only think it's because induction isn't as marketable. I don't mean from a consumer benefit standpoint, I mean from a big business fleecing the consumer standpoint. With LED you can talk about lens angle, multi-spectrum, thermal management, by-pass resistors, delay circuitry, individual LED wattage, total wattage and a host of other stuff to claim a marketing advantage. Where's the ad speak for induction? Apply power, get light. Tough for the marketing team. Awesome potential though.


This puts it in a nutshell as well as anyone could - love it!


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