# Co2, Dramatic Difference?



## originalstrain (Nov 17, 2007)

ive been growing for a while now got some decent crops going but never used co2 because of the risk of buying a tank and filling it, i think its a little suspicious with me not owning a paintball gun and all! ive seen the alternatives but they dont have that good of reviews on them so ive just done without! is it a dramatic difference when you use it? i know its important i have 1 hell of a ventilation system because i dont have co2 i realize when feeding co2 the air will have to be shut off but how much should i be using on like 20 plants around 3 foot tall and wide? also has anyone been using a co2 alternative that has changed things for them dramatically? thanks


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## BuckTheSystem (Nov 18, 2007)

originalstrain said:


> ive been growing for a while now got some decent crops going but never used co2 because of the risk of buying a tank and filling it, i think its a little suspicious with me not owning a paintball gun and all! ive seen the alternatives but they dont have that good of reviews on them so ive just done without! is it a dramatic difference when you use it? i know its important i have 1 hell of a ventilation system because i dont have co2 i realize when feeding co2 the air will have to be shut off but how much should i be using on like 20 plants around 3 foot tall and wide? also has anyone been using a co2 alternative that has changed things for them dramatically? thanks


What's up originalstrain? Just wanted to tell you that I went to a welding shop, a place where they sell welding accessories and fill up "industrial" gasses. The guys at these places don't care why you want it, they just want the sale. I was prepared to explain by saying that the "wife" put in a new wet bar down in out basement. We needed a 100% c02 cylinder for the beer we were about to consume. It's the same shit they use behind the bar. The reason I was going to mention the 100% c02 is because there are some places where you may ask for c02 and it will be mixed with some other inert gas. I can't remember the name of that gas or why it is put there but it is done. Lay your worries to rest my friend, they are just happy to have sold a bottle. Most of these shops don't make that much money as far as a retail store is concerned. As far as yield goes, I have also read a lot of scientific information about using. I have no experience with it but so many technical pros can't be too wrong. The cost isn't that great considering the benefits of using it so I'd snatch it up.


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## tahoe58 (Nov 18, 2007)

its like supercharging or adding a turbo....to the photsynthesis process. but you have to make sure that the other attirbutes are equally improved...like so if you add a supercharger to your motor, additional gas, and air and ability to exhaust are also needed. same on the plant side....need to make sure the water and nutrients and other stuff are all there in suffcient quantity to support the turbo-boost to the photosynthesis process


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 18, 2007)

I figure the outlay for doing it properly is $1000. Unless there is a passive way to constanly produce co2 cheaply, so you don't care about the other controls. 25% increase is what I have seen as a Guaranteed return if you can raise co2 to the maximum the plants can use. VV


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## 420muthafuka! (Nov 18, 2007)

mix yeast with sugar water, produces CO2 cheap..... u can buy these at local grocery store.


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## originalstrain (Nov 18, 2007)

has anyone gone from growing without it for a while, to using it? did it change things drastically? i understand that the risk of buying it would be minimal but carrying the tank in and out of my house is my worry. i dont have people over to my grow houses cause of risk. so the neighbors think im a loner theres no way i could be drinking that much beer, plus no kegs are ever coming in and out and i allways think im being watched so... is this yeast and sugar water a reliable alternative, and will i see a major difference?? or should i stick with what im doing now? im averaging about an ounce and a half 2 ounces per plant ( my own strain its a mix between white lightning, big bud, g13, and haze) which is no problem with me i think its a pretty good yield, but i think it could be better... thanks for the help so far


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## MagusALL (Nov 18, 2007)

good air circulation will help a lot if you cant keep the co2 level constant. tried using molasses to increase the bud size? with an exhaust fan venting all the air outside the area every five minutes i couldnt see how supplemental co2 could even be that effective. if youre paranoid bring it in at night. put it in a laundry basket with a towel over it.


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## BuckTheSystem (Nov 18, 2007)

originalstrain said:


> has anyone gone from growing without it for a while, to using it? did it change things drastically? i understand that the risk of buying it would be minimal but carrying the tank in and out of my house is my worry. i dont have people over to my grow houses cause of risk. so the neighbors think im a loner theres no way i could be drinking that much beer, plus no kegs are ever coming in and out and i allways think im being watched so... is this yeast and sugar water a reliable alternative, and will i see a major difference?? or should i stick with what im doing now? im averaging about an ounce and a half 2 ounces per plant ( my own strain its a mix between white lightning, big bud, g13, and haze) which is no problem with me i think its a pretty good yield, but i think it could be better... thanks for the help so far


This may be a good alternative for you man. No worries here. 
Hydroponics, Indoor Gardening Supplies, Hydroponic Systems - home


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## originalstrain (Nov 18, 2007)

how many plants is that tablet supposed to be used for and how long do they last? it doesnt really say and haveyou used them before? how good are they?


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## Jontaidoe (Nov 19, 2007)

The difference is dramatic. I had about a 20% yeild increase immediatly.


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## Your Grandfather (Nov 19, 2007)

I use the yeast/sugar/baking soda in gatorade bottle. 15~20 minutes before my fans come on_lights come on a bit later_I give all of the gatorade bottles a good shake and let them release their stuff.

CO2 is lighter than air, so it wants to float up. Therefore, if you have them at the base of the plant.....


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## BuckTheSystem (Nov 19, 2007)

Your Grandfather said:


> I use the yeast/sugar/baking soda in gatorade bottle. 15~20 minutes before my fans come on_lights come on a bit later_I give all of the gatorade bottles a good shake and let them release their stuff.
> 
> CO2 is lighter than air, so it wants to float up. Therefore, if you have them at the base of the plant.....


I do believe that c02 is heavier than air.


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## gotdamunchies (Nov 19, 2007)

CO2 is heavier than air so you need it to float down. I an interested in anyones results after introducing CO2 into the grow as well. 
I recently bought a bottle and regulator setup and was wondering if anyone has a formula for how much CO2 needs to be in a room for best results as well. I also got a CO2 test kit and was wondering what kind of level I should be looking for.


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## BuckTheSystem (Nov 19, 2007)

gotdamunchies said:


> CO2 is heavier than air so you need it to float down. I an interested in anyones results after introducing CO2 into the grow as well.
> I recently bought a bottle and regulator setup and was wondering if anyone has a formula for how much CO2 needs to be in a room for best results as well. I also got a CO2 test kit and was wondering what kind of level I should be looking for.


1500 ppm is excellent.


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## irish (Nov 19, 2007)

CO2 if increased will dramatically increase yield along with light and h20 I`ve used fermentation and I reccomend it as an alternative. I use a large hose coming from an airtight connection then i put sugar, warm H20 , fertiliser , yeast (wine or beer) , lock it all down cover and keep warm when it starts to bubble I turn on the tap & presto!!!
EVERY10 GRAMS OF SUGAR U GET 5GRMS OF CO2 (ever tried weighing a gas)
I HEARD ONE GUY RAVING 30 CMS IN 10 DAYS 
U COULD DRINK THE STUFF WHEN FINISHED (only 4 the tough)


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## Your Grandfather (Nov 19, 2007)

Your Grandfather said:


> I use the yeast/sugar/baking soda in gatorade bottle. 15~20 minutes before my fans come on_lights come on a bit later_I give all of the gatorade bottles a good shake and let them release their stuff.
> 
> CO2 is lighter than air, so it wants to float up. Therefore, if you have them at the base of the plant.....


Doh. Thanks for correcting me guys.

Can I blame it on the weed?


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## originalstrain (Nov 19, 2007)

alright thanks, looks like i should try the yeast thing first, im still scared of buying the co2 so often. i live in a very anti weed city!


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## MagusALL (Nov 19, 2007)

why add fertilizer? that doesnt make much sense to me. sugar yeast and a bit of water and you should be straight.


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## FilthyFletch (Nov 19, 2007)

I use 20 lb co2 injection systems on my aero grows.I use rooms that are 8 feet by 8 feet by 10 feet.I use the tanks hooked to electric solenoid release valves on timers. I then counter time my rooms air intake and out take vents which have dampers that close whne not in use. Use is based on your room size.Co2 is used only on lights on time.I run my co2 for 2-3 minutes every hour while lights are on to keep the co2 ppm at around 1300-1500 ppm which is needed to achieve the maximum results.I just did a grow without co2 to just confirm what I have learned from using it. I find using the co2 from day 1 of growing in my system it gives me a 30% increase minimal yoeld weight and cuts about 3 weeks off the grow time with better tighter nugs and healthy great plants. My setup can have up to 32 plants but I always run 20-24 plants in there.Get about 1 -2 lbs without it and 3-5 with co2.You have to raise room temps closer to 85 and make sure the co2 air ppm is up above 1300 ppm and preferablly at 1500 ppm. Close all vents and run them every 2 hours right before a new injection to clear old air out and bring in fresh new air in then the dampers close and the co2 reinjects.My co2 setup cost me about $225 total as I got a good deal on some lightly used stuff and a bulk co2 tank buy on ebay. I got 3 20 lb co2 tanks, a solenoid release valave with air flow control,a minute interval timer and some hose.I had my vent fans and just added $25 for 2 dampers.Co2 isnt suspecious as its used for a million uses and you only need 1-2 tanks a month.Figure its used for welding, soda machines, home bar taps,plasma cutters,paintballs,aquariums,ponds,food preservation, and in off road 4x4 setups


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## FilthyFletch (Nov 19, 2007)

and I just saw in a post above and not sure of the original post but co2 is heavier then air.It will sink so you have it above your plants and a tilting cyclone type fan on slow down low blowing the co2 as it falls back up and over your plants.


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## potroast (Nov 20, 2007)

Yeah, Fletch, it's all great stuff! Except that thing about 3 weeks shorter flowering time. I wouldn't be able to justify that. 3 _days_, maybe. 

So now you're saying that you harvest your plants after only 5 weeks because of the _*CO2*_. And not because of your _*special strain*_, like you used to say?


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## FilthyFletch (Nov 20, 2007)

What I am saying is what is true. The strain I use which is a heavy fast growing indica varies with technique and additives.Im sure you read all my post and are familiar with the posted different grows I actually wrote about showing the actual outcomes of with and without co2 and the difference in outcomes in soil and aero correct? Then you will see I used the same strain in 2 journels both using aero and same grow setup. I did one with full out co2 usage and then the second I didnt use the co2.As was shown and documented in those the crop with co2 the plants stayed shorter with bigger tigheter nugs and finished in 5 weeks 3 days with only 12 days of veg time. The second without co2 vegged for 16 days and took almost 8 weeks of flower to achieve the finished crop.So my control strain I use in all my grows are the same clones from the same mother pant.So in my grows which I have shared my strain is a natural heavy producer but the crop showing the use of co2 actually gained more total yield in almost 3 weeks shorter time.So not sure how you want to interpet those posted outcomes but to me with actual hands on usgage with correct 1500 ppm usgae and environmental control 3 weeks less flowering time with a higher total dry yield then a non co2 grow that takes 3 weeks longer both same plants in the same setup with same nutes Id have to same more and faster is a signifigant difference.If it was an equal yield with only a 3 day difference I woulndt bother.This finding can also be seen and back if you watch Garden Knomes aka seemorebud videos as there is a grow who shows his 3 rooms now using controlled co2 and he shows the exact same type of results.Weeks off total time and signifigant yield increase.If you like I can get you the exact video title and the time the actual grow is shown.Anyways this is only when co2 is used to its fullest potential not gonna happen from a soda bottle and yeats. Not saying that method doesnt add some benefit but not the dramatic results I have gotten.Also documented in the seemorebuds video is a ghetto grow were a grower was using the co2 boost buckets and swore to the improvement and speed co2 added to his garden.But then again I guess all the people who get the exact results I got and shared via journels and posts could all be making it up just so we can take the time to write these real long responses just for the sole purpose of throwing people off the trail of how much a waste co2 is as that as being part of the anti co2 of America movement lol.It is what it is you can take my honest opinions and what I have shown to back those claims up or ignore my attempts to add my findings.Either way its each growers choice.I wont grow again without co2 not even for fun as I enjoy the speed and quality of the co2 enhanced grown plants..Just my findings and thoughts


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## Puffin Afatty (Nov 20, 2007)

I brewed beer in the intake area, worked great...wasted 1/2 the co2 to night time, but I drank the beer, so I figgered I broke about even...the plants loved it, grew fatter, faster...I always use co2 now...


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## xucardsfan08 (Nov 20, 2007)

I have a Gatorade bottle with sugar/yeast/water right in front of a fan that blows at a 45º angle toward my girl. Seems to have helped so far, and it's been about 1.5weeks since I set it up.


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## fanatic (Nov 20, 2007)

very interesting post. 
I have been experimenting with Co2 generators. At first, I bought a big manually lit generator (the ones with the pilot flame)... I hooked it up to a co2 controller/monitor, so that the room would always stay at 1500 ppm, but all my plants started to suffer from what it seemed as co2 intoxication.
so after that, I decide to give it another try and get a top of the line co2 generator, with no pilot light. But.... same resuts.... I even tried to set the controller to 1000 ppm... but it never worked. 
I have a perpetual setup, in a room with an AC turned on 24/7... 

You guys seem to know about this stuff... can you think of anything wrong here? why is this not working for me?


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## BuckTheSystem (Nov 20, 2007)

fanatic said:


> very interesting post.
> I have been experimenting with Co2 generators. At first, I bought a big manually lit generator (the ones with the pilot flame)... I hooked it up to a co2 controller/monitor, so that the room would always stay at 1500 ppm, but all my plants started to suffer from what it seemed as co2 intoxication.
> so after that, I decide to give it another try and get a top of the line co2 generator, with no pilot light. But.... same resuts.... I even tried to set the controller to 1000 ppm... but it never worked.
> I have a perpetual setup, in a room with an AC turned on 24/7...
> ...


The guy at the welding shop where I get my c02 cylinder filled asked me if I wanted pure c02. I was like what? He told me that some people mix c02 with some other inert gas. He told me what it was but I forgot. I never knew that. So, anyhow you could look into that? Probably not the problem but you never know about this stuff. Take care


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## fanatic (Nov 20, 2007)

These are propane-tank co2 generators... I have no idea what could be wrong.


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## BuckTheSystem (Nov 20, 2007)

fanatic said:


> These are propane-tank co2 generators... I have no idea what could be wrong.


Well that just sucks bro. Sorry I couldn't help you out.


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## b-rad (Nov 20, 2007)

the other gass that there talking about at the welding shop is argon is the inert gas. whats i have put in my welding tank i think its 75%co2 and 25%argon


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## originalstrain (Nov 20, 2007)

thanks a lot, i guess i have to get a couple tanks, 30% is a big difference!


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## Puffin Afatty (Nov 21, 2007)

the only time I had a problem, not really a co2 problem, was when my kerosine heater I used to heat the shed in winter used all the oxygen in the room and the heater failed...Maybe you need to calibrate that co2 meter???


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## irish (Nov 29, 2007)

firstly _fanatic_ you are piosoning your plants with the propane cos it is being oxidised in the air to give propanone (KETONES) which is toxic in small doses.

Secondly , lets ponder this equation

CO2 & H2O & Light = C6H12O6 & O2 
water lumens (Bud) oxygen

This is a simplified version of photosynthesis, increase the reactants on the LHS (there are optinum levels however) ie CO2, H2O & light and the result is more bud produced.

The differences between bought CO2 and fermented CO2 (they both reach optinum levels of co2 production ) are money and work. Some have it,some get it off their Mammmy, I prefer to smoke my bud that I have sweated for.


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## MrIntricate (Dec 3, 2007)

Creating CO2 using yeast, sugar and water is kind of a pain in the butt. You have to change out the mixture every few days. Not that big a deal, but yet another task that needs tending to in the cultivation process. The whole CO2 enrichment process begins and ends with a CO2 meter. Keeping optimum levels of the stuff, relative to your H2O and light levels, is paramount.


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## Honest Bruce (Dec 6, 2007)

Hi Buck the system the non 100% co2 you buy in Australia is called "beer gas" its a mixture of carbon dioxide and nitrogen and it used for forcing beer out of barrells without carbonating the product, its typically used on Guinness wich is meant to be flat


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## Endoe (Dec 15, 2007)

Originalstrain there are several reasons to have a CO2 bottle in your house besides pot. Hell for all they know your a welder. Just cool off about people seeing you. If neccessary bring it in at night.


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## tahoe58 (Dec 15, 2007)

paranoid people attract attention.....calm cool people go by unnoticed....


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## poopypants (Dec 30, 2007)

So in a 8X10X10 room if you have say 10 16 oz soda bottles filled with Yeast and Sugar Water is that enough? Will adding more sugar produce more Co2?


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## kochab (Dec 30, 2007)

i did the yeast stuff one grow.....it did help a good but yes.....but was a BIG pain in the ass. so I had a manager friend of mine borrow a co2 tank from the job. i just open it every once in a while and it helps a million and one just by doing that twice a day. makes me feel light headed as fuck.....but then again i may be getting the ppm above what it should be. since my room dosent lose much air to the venting and just re circulates at optimum temp, it helps stay in the room longer to accomodate a little for not having the regulator and shit yet. i need some more cash. blah.


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## FilthyFletch (Dec 30, 2007)

koch be careful you dont kill yourself as the needed high levels to get co2 benefits are high enough to kill you. Dont be in the grow room when its filled with that much co2 braindamage can happen. Im not understanding irish comment about propane killing plants as the co2 generators all use propane tanks by design but can be fitted to except natural gas.The burn off is pure co2 from those gases.They were designed to use propane and natural gas and are used by large commercial growers as well. My cap gen 6 co2 generator has 6 burners and uses a propane tank like a gas grill. I hook it up with a timer after a few quick tests to know how long it needs to be on and when.The tank is opened the solenoid valve is ready and the ac adapter to the unit is plugged in to the timer and when the timer comes on the piolet light on the setup fires up and the solenoid injects the gas into the line and the flames burn off the propane and boom co2. Nice and easy easily fills a 10x10x10 room in about 3 minutes to 1500 ppm


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## kochab (Dec 30, 2007)

FilthyFletch said:


> koch be careful you dont kill yourself as the needed high levels to get co2 benefits are high enough to kill you. Dont be in the grow room when its filled with that much co2 braindamage can happen. Im not understanding irish comment about propane killing plants as the co2 generators all use propane tanks by design but can be fitted to except natural gas.The burn off is pure co2 from those gases.They were designed to use propane and natural gas and are used by large commercial growers as well. My cap gen 6 co2 generator has 6 burners and uses a propane tank like a gas grill. I hook it up with a timer after a few quick tests to know how long it needs to be on and when.The tank is opened the solenoid valve is ready and the ac adapter to the unit is plugged in to the timer and when the timer comes on the piolet light on the setup fires up and the solenoid injects the gas into the line and the flames burn off the propane and boom co2. Nice and easy easily fills a 10x10x10 room in about 3 minutes to 1500 ppm


oh yeah brother i know what your saying. i dont generally stand in there. I just come out of the room for five minutes go back in and shut the valve, close up shop and go toke


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## pjboy31 (Jan 5, 2008)

I use the tank method . I where a mask and just turn off all the fans and air conditioner then I open up the c02 tamk and try to close the door as much as i can while I feel the roo with the desired amount. Then I reture the air and fans because c02 i heavier than oygen so I want the fans below to blow the c02 upwwards . I then seal my room I mean windows and the crack under the door for like 3 hours, then I open it up and givefresh air. I also raise the temp to about 85-90 while co2 . Then I air them out and place the temps back. Yes this is crude way to to it buit it is cheap. They never sweat me at the welding store i feel my 10 # tank at.


good luck!


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## LoganSmith (Jan 6, 2008)

I went into the store the other day and said I need a tank because I'm growing weed and they said when in that case you will need a #20 tank and a co2 reg system. That will be $300. Thanks and have a good day. 

Hahahahhah


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## Cannabian (Jan 6, 2008)

420muthafuka! said:


> mix yeast with sugar water, produces CO2 cheap..... u can buy these at local grocery store.


Go to a DIY beer or wine place get one of those huge glass jugs they have, works great. Dump 1/2 out every few weeks and refill, shake 2x a day and your set - very cheaply with some minor inconveniences.


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## Cannabian (Jan 6, 2008)

LoganSmith said:


> I went into the store the other day and said I need a tank because I'm growing weed and they said when in that case you will need a #20 tank and a co2 reg system. That will be $300. Thanks and have a good day.
> 
> Hahahahhah


Did you pay by credit card?


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## McLovin420 (Jan 9, 2008)

I lease a 50lb tank from a local welding for $60 a year. It cost $17 to fill it. The cheap methods are just that cheap and nothing more than a hassle. 

CO2 health info from Wikipedia
It is dangerous when inhaled in high concentrations (greater than 5% by volume, or 50,000 ppm). The current threshold limit value (TLV) or maximum level that is considered safe for healthy adults for an eight-hour work day is 0.5% (5,000 ppm). The maximum safe level for infants, children, the elderly and individuals with cardio-pulmonary health issues is significantly less.
These figures are valid for pure carbon dioxide. In indoor spaces occupied by people the carbon dioxide concentration will reach higher levels than in pure outdoor air. Concentrations higher than 1,000 ppm will cause discomfort in more than 20% of occupants, and the discomfort will increase with increasing CO2 concentration. The discomfort will be caused by various gases coming from human respiration and perspiration, and not by CO2 itself. At 2,000 ppm the majority of occupants will feel a significant degree of discomfort, and many will develop nausea and headaches. The CO2 concentration between 300 and 2,500 ppm is used as an indicator of indoor air quality.


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## Suci (Jan 13, 2008)

sugar water and yeast make alcohol rite?? any one have any idea of the % or proof 

im under 21 and have a hard time finding ppl to buy me booze would be great to have a stock all the time from my grow room


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## luvnlif (Feb 5, 2008)

I heard "High Times" reported that CO2 decreased THC levels and that it was advisable to turn off CO2, two weeks before harvest. Is this true?


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## Infintgrn (Feb 6, 2008)

Put it on the bottle it is worth it ive read it can increase prod by 50% if seen 25 -30 % you can carry a 25# tank in your house in a duffle bag. Thats only a little sketchy normal people carry bags in and out of the house all the time.


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## luvnlif (Feb 6, 2008)

Anything true about Co2 decreasing THC levels?


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## needynate (Apr 3, 2017)

BuckTheSystem said:


> I do believe that c02 is heavier than air.


It is lol


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## ttystikk (Apr 3, 2017)

Holy necrothread, Batman!


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## Knowledgeiskey (Apr 13, 2017)

420muthafuka! said:


> mix yeast with sugar water, produces CO2 cheap..... u can buy these at local grocery store.


agree this is effective its a pain changing 3/4 water and adding sugar and a little yeast again every 2-4 days but im happy with results for now till i get automated co2 setup...


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## 420 Boy (Apr 16, 2017)

I have seen the difference of growing without Co2 and with it. And i find it is by far the best upgrade you can get for your room.
Co2 sensor is about $500-$600 CAD. Tanks are relatively cheap all depends on the size of your room and amount of plants.
I can confirm that plants grow WAY faster in veg. To the point where you can save few weeks of veg time. Also the yield have increased significantly.

Some research have been done tho. Many claim that for Co2 to be effective you need to increase the temp in the room ( I haven't done that). Co2 and higher temp
will lead to your plants drinking more water and consuming more nutes. I suggest implementing it to a strain that you know well but you don't have to.
just implement and be attentive, you'll see the difference. It is very noticible


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## sparkygeek (Apr 17, 2017)

I would say that adding CO2 was the single best upgrade I've made to my grow room. Instead of getting a controller-based setup I went with a simple solenoid activated CO2 regulator controlled by a $10 timer. I went this route because the CO2 meter was expensive and I wasn't skipping that. The 20# tank was $100 ($20 to refill) The CO2 regulator was around $150. Since CO2 is only used when the lights are on, it was relatively simple to get about 1500ppm average. Best of luck!


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## Huckster79 (Apr 17, 2017)

It works, but i found it only works out with a room that only has girls that are same or close days in flower and similiar run lenghth. As anectodally i found it necessary to reduce and cut it off at the end for quality sake. Though i have heard others say their experience is opposite, this is mine:

Im off it right now only because i have girls at diff stages in there.

I had run great w co2 from my very first micro grow, because i got the equipment for a song i set it up even for the microgrow as my very first run ever. First run i blew my mentor away. When i moved into a multiple plant grow room, i of course took the co2 to it and went great for a year or so, would run co2 to timed calculated amount to obtain 1500ppm, and heat up to mid to upper 80s and rh 65 or 70 and they loved it!!!! Would do that for say 5 or 6 weeks then start backing all down to finish hopefully last week to week and a half at ambient co2, temps high of upper 70ish lows of 70ish rh 40 to 50

Great yeilds great quality. Then one round a heatwave hit and my enviornmental controls that as rudimentary as they were had worked thus far failed to combat the heatwave and it happened to coincide with the last two weeks of flower... i finished in upper 80s a few days low 90. I kept co2 rolling to reduce that heat stress, being the plant deals better with heat when it has the co2 for turbo mode. The plants looked just beautiful.... the product in the end tho tasted like hay no matter how carefully i cured it. Its effects though there where as short lives as could be. You coulda rolled one in the cop shop and they wudnt have smelled it.

I really think those last two weeks you dont want the plant i n turbo anymore. I gotta get ballanced back out to have same stage girls back in there so i can fully utilize the set up being i added real ac after that disappointing round. Now i could get that insane growth and fullness out of those high co2 high temp and humidity gets ya for the first bit of flower, while getting the quality a cold finish gets ya. Now with the controls i have with ac i finish at 70 high temp 58 low, but even in begining keep her 78ish as high without the co2. Its arguable but many beleive you dont reap all of co2 rewards without increased temp. The purple hues ya get from the cold finish adds real beaity and deapth, the quality is bar none increased from my rounds before the cold finish. 

So co2 em! Just back off at end imho...


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## Shugglet (Oct 21, 2017)

sparkygeek said:


> I would say that adding CO2 was the single best upgrade I've made to my grow room. Instead of getting a controller-based setup I went with a simple solenoid activated CO2 regulator controlled by a $10 timer. I went this route because the CO2 meter was expensive and I wasn't skipping that. The 20# tank was $100 ($20 to refill) The CO2 regulator was around $150. Since CO2 is only used when the lights are on, it was relatively simple to get about 1500ppm average. Best of luck!



150 for a regulator? Seriously? How do you know youre getting that 1500 avg without a monitor?


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## STLbudz (Nov 22, 2017)

i just went co2 not because i wanted to increase or do anything to the plant , all i wanted was a fully sealed room and controllable room for any enviroment i wanted . Ill keep it all short and just Damn its the truth the perfert Room in vpd range all day. its defenitly a plus in my book as for thc idk bout that 1 cuz my plants were dripping , can post pics soon


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## STLbudz (Nov 22, 2017)

Don't have pics of past grow because this was first time running these strains except for the cookie I've ran that before but comparing to my buddies non co2 room we both ran same strains mine came out thicker ,frostier,tighter , heavier . His was fire no doubt but idk co2 brings there full potential

I just used a regulator on a timer using the co2 timer calculator online ... I'd get the sniffer/controller but the timer worked great for me .


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## Canadain Closet Gardener (Nov 23, 2017)

originalstrain said:


> i understand that the risk of buying it would be minimal but carrying the tank in and out of my house is my worry.


 Use a golf bag. It holds a tank quite easy. Also easier to lug it in and out of the house.
Cheers
CCG


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## ANC (Nov 24, 2017)

CO2 is great when you have high levels of light.

Having said that, for a novice or intermediary level grower it is of more value to get 
*Accurate control of temperature* with adequate air conditioning as you can now only use ventilation to cool some parts of the lights.
*Accurate control of RH
Accurate control of pH
Extra nutrients to burn
Very bright lights (1000W HPS equivalent or more)
*
That's a bunch of expensive equipment to set up to incrementally elevate your growing to another level before you even buy CO2 tanks, regulators, diffusers, tanks, pipes and what not.


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## OldMedUser (Dec 21, 2017)

There sure was a lot of mis-information going on in the earlier portions of this thread.

Still a little bit. Like there is no need for diffusers or piping to "drop" the CO2 from above the plants. Even a mild breeze from a small oscillating fan will mix it right into the rest of the air in the room.

No need for tanks, valves and solenoids either as I'm finding out.

I bought a simple GroZone USCO2 controller to hook up to a 70lb tank I bought a couple years ago at a yard sale only to find out that they won't fill it unless you have an account and rent a tank from them. They use a serial # on the tank to connect it to an account and with my luck it was probably stolen and I'll get the shit for it. $120/yr for tank lease and $124 for each refill so have to cough up $250 up front with tax to get one. So I'm sitting here with a $270 CO2 controller I can't use . . . or can I?

A few years ago I made an alcohol burner to add CO2 but had no idea if it was enough so stopped using it. Then thought why not use the controller to see if the levels go up with it. Do they ever! I only takes about 15 min and the 1500ppm LED starts blinking indicating it's over 1600. There really isn't anything in the manual about using it just to monitor levels so I emailed them last night to find out. Had my answers when I fired up the computer this morning. Had another question so replied to that one and had a response in 15 min. From the CEO of GroZone nonetheless. Talk about great customer service! A big shout out to GroZone!  made as well.

Seems I could have just used it right out of the box for that but being the curious cat type had to run thru the whole process and do the troubleshooting part too and it worked perfect.

This is the burner I made and today made another one the same but with only one wick for the veg room. Just a mason jar with copper tubes soldered to the lid and tiki lamp wicks in them. Bit of a PITA as it's all manual and I'm up and down the stairs a dozen times a day but after getting my leaky appendix out recently after 5 years of profound fatigue and all sorts of gut pain and cramps I'm feeling way better and need the exercise to get myself in shape after years of sitting on my bony ass. Burning about 200mls of methyl hydrate downstairs per day and half that in the veg room but it's the first day. I ran tape up the side of the jar and marked it in 50ml increments so I can monitor consumption. I keep them in a metal can or stone crock in the middle of the room so if the jar were to break the alcohol is contained and there's nothing above to catch fire. Getting a couple of heat detectors or smoke alarms just to be safe. Only $8 for a 4L jug so won't cost much to use.

Think I'm going to make a couple of smaller models to use less fuel so it stays around the 1000ppm range for veg and I don't have to run my temps up to 85 or so. Extra CO2 is proven to benefit plant growth at anything above the ambient 400ppm. Full 1500 and higher temps for the growth spurt during stretch and then back to 1000 for the rest of flowering.

 

10 min after lighting both wicks.


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## chemphlegm (Dec 21, 2017)

Nobody knows what c02 demands a room has without measurement.
C02 is a necessary marijuana growing resource, like light, water, nutrients,
without c02 marijuana will die.
Marijuana grows to its weakest resource. 
A grower chooses which resources to deprive their plant
then they accept the less than full expressions that result.

for instance

_ usable light-dramatic difference?
nutrients-dramatic difference?
water-dramatic difference?_

Like people deprived of necessary resources 
may survive- without thriving.
Depriving any of these resources may not kill a marijuana plant
but most of us expect more than plant survival,
even up to fullest potential of expressions.
Perfection is acceptable.

with the relatively low cost of supplying every needed resource,
to purposely deprive one would be counterproductive. 
Depending on expectations.....
some people enjoy using marijuana that has been deprived essential resources
during its growth, different tokes for different folks.

my generator costs $269, installed easily, and operates for less than 13$ monthly burning propane 12 hours @ lights on.
If it failed on a monday I'd replace it on tuesday without hesitation. Turning it off shows detriment in yields, flavors, effects, maturity/finish times, etc. The last resource I added was c02 years ago. 
Until then...get this....NONE of my plants ever finished within breeder specs and ambering took many weeks past expected duration. They all finish within specs now and amber as expected, go figure.


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## ANC (Dec 21, 2017)

@OldMedUser that bottle with the flames on has bad news stamped all over it mate.


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## thumper60 (Dec 21, 2017)

ANC said:


> @OldMedUser that bottle with the flames on has bad news stamped all over it mate.


ya noway I leave that burning,thats a bomb waiting to blow!


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## ANC (Dec 21, 2017)

I wonder if the insurance company would classify it as arson.


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## chemphlegm (Dec 21, 2017)

some interesting c02 facts I've experienced.
Outside the ambient c02 around here is about 390 ppm, sometimes higher sometimes lower. 
*Outdoors my meter will show the same at any plant canopy high or low near full time. *
Indoors, with a floor of plants and metered air exchange is never higher than 285 anywhere in the room with lights on and no augmentation. I grew awesome plants that way, albeit expensive in the winter with little issue, (then I added c02, sealed my room too)

no matter how much air movement I added in my room,
with less than a 1000ppm c02 augmentation,
it wouldn't bring my mid canopy ppm over 300ppm.
It all helps the growing of course, but not ideal like outdoors...
We just cannot move the air like the outside does, constantly exchanging air at every level of every plant full time for a fresh dose of needed 400 ish ppm for a perfect expression, so I find a metered dose of 1200-1500 ppm's will indeed keep ppm's above 400 ppm at any plant level ! now I get it. plants can consume 400 ppm, so I give it to them. I need to pump 1200 to provide 400 is all.

also noticed working in my room I can raise the ppm's to 600 on my canopy meter in a couple hours with a few plants in there.
less ppm's with more plants.
A few rabbits in the grow room will also bring up c02, mine did to about 600ppm's without exchange. I'd totally consider a couple bunny cages inside an accommodating tent for this bene as well as maybe the best fertilizer I ever used. One of my caligiants would produce enough poop for teas and raw feeding eating only cannabis trimming and water- would feed my 2.5 gallon pots, 3 foot plants(3-4 ounces per)....6 of them ! with nothing else added for a great finish in happy frogs.


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## chemphlegm (Dec 21, 2017)

in some states a fire like that would nullify any insurance claims, like a getaway car getting damaged on the way...._like a good neighbor_
I built a dedicated outdoor steel building for this and other reasons, hanging fire extinguishers, full time documented monitoring, cctv, a real dick punch, but I sleep well so.
even in legal states this is an issue. It costs dearly to insure my hobby space/contents with a specialized provider, with inspection/paperwork/fire control etc requirements


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## OldMedUser (Dec 21, 2017)

ANC said:


> @OldMedUser that bottle with the flames on has bad news stamped all over it mate.


I like living dangerously. 

When I made the first one I ran it thru a full load outside in my burning barrel until it went out no problem. It's the same design as the alcohol lamps we used in science labs in junior high back in the 60s and none of them blew up so I'm not too concerned.

Thanks for your concern tho and a Merry Xmas to you and yours!


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## ANC (Dec 21, 2017)

I'm more worried about it being bumped over accidentally.


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## OldMedUser (Dec 21, 2017)

My grow is


ANC said:


> I'm more worried about it being bumped over accidentally.


I blow it out if I'm going to do any work in the grow room and lock the door behind me when I go. I have to or the suction pulls it open when the exhaust fan kicks in. It sits in a steel can to contain a spill and make it very stable. I worked as a chemist in a hazardous waste facility for 2 years in my late 30s in charge of the flammables dept so have had extensive training in all things that go BOOM!



chemphlegm said:


> in some states a fire like that would nullify any insurance claims, like a getaway car getting damaged on the way...._like a good neighbor_
> I built a dedicated outdoor steel building for this and other reasons, hanging fire extinguishers, full time documented monitoring, cctv, a real dick punch, but I sleep well so.
> even in legal states this is an issue. It costs dearly to insure my hobby space/contents with a specialized provider, with inspection/paperwork/fire control etc requirements


I'm totally illegal other than my doctors papers for legal use of legally purchased pot from a gov't approved Legal Provider so insurance isn't going to pay if we had a grease fire in the kitchen and they found my upstairs grow room anyways. I have a decent size fire extinguisher sitting at the top of the stairs to the basement where the grow room is located. 3 more in the shop at the top of the stairs too and got a lot of training at putting fires out. Very calm and focused in emergency situations as well. Like time slows down for me. If I leave the house I put it out before I go.

If I can get some money to spare I plan to build a separate grow shed outside this summer. Got 7.5 acres so lots of room for a 24x24' outbuilding. Hoping to be legal to grow by then if I ever get the papers in to Hellth Canada.



thumper60 said:


> ya noway I leave that burning,thats a bomb waiting to blow!


Can't blow. Wouldn't even make a decent molotov cocktail as the flames would blow out the second you threw it. A light puff is all it takes to blow it out but I use wire nuts to cap the wicks to put them out and prevent evaporation when not in use.


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## OldMedUser (Dec 21, 2017)

Here's what it looks like when burning in the grow room. The lid to the big pail is just outside the grow room door to snuff it out if need be.


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## ANC (Dec 21, 2017)

Nice, owning land here nowadays is a death sentence.


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## OldMedUser (Dec 21, 2017)

ANC said:


> Nice, owning land here nowadays is a death sentence.


How so?


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## ANC (Dec 21, 2017)

maybe fill the bottom of the large pot with sand so it can't be kicked over so easily?


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## ANC (Dec 21, 2017)

We have many attacks and murders on farms. It is quite a tragedy.


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## vostok (Dec 21, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> Here's what it looks like when burning in the grow room. The lid to the big pail is just outside the grow room door to snuff it out if need be.
> View attachment 4061378


I have used similar years back

I confess to adding the gas BBQ to the grow room on 
occasions

as for the c02 emitted would depend on the thickness of the wick

if you can experiment with different sizes wix

that may offer differing amounts of c02 

emitted

will put you idea in the right zone..?

hope you test and post back

cheers


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## OldMedUser (Dec 21, 2017)

ANC said:


> maybe fill the bottom of the large pot with sand so it can't be kicked over so easily?


Like I said I put the flames out when I'm going to be doing anything but check the controller for the CO2 level so not likely to kick it over. Even a solid bump won't knock over the jar as the can it's in is to small for it to tip on its side.

Saying that, the sand is a great idea as it would absorb the methanol and reduce the flames a hell of a lot so thanks for the great idea!  



ANC said:


> We have many attacks and murders on farms. It is quite a tragedy.


That sux! You in S. Africa or something? Crack heads from town often try to steal from farms around here and our closest neighbour was home invaded by three such assholes about a year ago looking for drugs, money and guns. Got the last two and stole his two near new pickups that he got back all damaged. Traumatized his wife smacking her around and joking about raping her while forcing her to open the safe in the basement while one guy held her husband and bro-in-law at gunpoint upstairs. Very religious people and I've wondered if they weren't looking for my place and got the addy wrong. Sleep with my loaded shotgun and baseball bat right beside me. Fuck the rules about storage. Have steel fire doors so will take them a min or two to get in. Also do a walk around each night after dark to make sure everything is secure. Had to put the dog down so looking at getting another real soon. Crack heads hate dogs because dogs hate crack heads. 

Stay safe man!


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## thumper60 (Dec 21, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> My grow is
> 
> 
> I blow it out if I'm going to do any work in the grow room and lock the door behind me when I go. I have to or the suction pulls it open when the exhaust fan kicks in. It sits in a steel can to contain a spill and make it very stable. I worked as a chemist in a hazardous waste facility for 2 years in my late 30s in charge of the flammables dept so have had extensive training in all things that go BOOM!
> ...


I here ya man,but not good for nubes I make my own co2 burners wont post here gotta no what ya doing


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## OldMedUser (Dec 21, 2017)

thumper60 said:


> I here ya man,but not good for nubes I make my own co2 burners wont post here gotta no what ya doing


How about a PM then and I'll share my simple butane distillation procedure with you as you must know what you're doing.


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## Huckster79 (Dec 21, 2017)

nxsov180db said:


> I run a perpetual setup and use 1200ppm throughout. I have heard people say to stop toward the end of flower but Is see no reason really. When dinosaurs roamed the earth and everything was larger than life CO2 was upwards of over 4000ppm. Humans can breath in levels of 5000ppm for 8 hours without any problems and it takes 40,000+ppm to kill you so I'd say it's safe to say that 1,500ppm or less won't hurt your cannabis at the end, it doesn't for me anyways. I do get very high yields but I also switched to COB led at the same time as I ran a sealed room with CO2 so I can't say how much of an improvement it was or is but I don't know anyone else getting over 6lbs out of a 4x8..


What do you do for temps, i have a guess that its more the temp drop they need than the co2 drop


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## Huckster79 (Dec 21, 2017)

nxsov180db said:


> Temperature drop? I keep my room set at 75 which means inside my tents stays about 85 when lights are on inside the tent, that never changes.


Hmmm, i had been convinced you had to have increased temp with co2...but based only on forum wisdom, not personal expirmentation- shame on me. maybe ill get my rig filled again n give it a try at normal temps!


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## Huckster79 (Dec 21, 2017)

I misread ur post i was on my phone i skipped over the 85. So u take her all the way throuhgh at that w no ill effect? 

You know part of my problem when i was struggling w quality may very likely have been my genetics fading...iv cloned off clones repeatedly and i know some have no problem with that but i think a few times i effed up n stressed her bad... i looked back at old pics and how her bud formation was and is now, that line,, and shes gone downhill. i got one more flower on those genetics and if they keep not turning out like others im gunna have to cut that line loose... cant be my enviornment as other girls i got kicking what used to be my main girls ass.

You are inspiring me to get this tank refilled...


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## chemphlegm (Dec 22, 2017)

I do not increase temps, humidity, nutrients, light, hamburger consumption, or anything else to accommodate my c02.
do people eat more food so that there oxygen can be tolerated?

plants grow to their weakest resource...which resource will you short your plants?

plants breathe it. when its hot they breathe more. when fed well they breathe more than when they are not fed properly. when its cold they need less resources...much like people. More oxygen is needed when running, eating compared to sleeping. 
if the c02 ppm is not around 300-400 ppm during lights on the plant suffers because- it breathes this much.
correctly regulate temps, rh, lights, c02, nutrients, watering habits.... and plants will never complain. I did that some years ago
and found the end to every issue I ever read about here.


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