# Female Clone but found 3 Seeds....?



## oscarmiya (Dec 13, 2008)

Ok, I am in the process of harvesting my girl. I'm suspecting I will get about 3-4oz from the 1 plant dry, right now I am taking a break. Weird thing is, when I was trimmin her up, I noticed one of the cylaxes.. not sure the spelling is right there.. but the cylaxe was a little more opened up and something was popping out.. So I pried her apart and all-b-damned if there wasn't a healthy looking seed in there. Nice and brown with some black markings on it, further investigating I found 2 more on that bud.. anyways.. fucked up thing is that this plant came from a Female clone. The dude I got this clone from did produce seeds and he swears he didn't have any males around. So after I found these 3 seeds on that one bud I started looking at all my buds but I couldn't find anymore seeds. I am about half way done harvesting and will post if I find more.

I am wondering if it is possibly something I did or if a Clone from a Hermi.. is going to be a Hermi in the end too? I plan to plant these babies but I have already taken 4 more clones from this plant and wondering if those fuckers will produce seeds too? Is there a chance the seeds will be hermi also.. from what I understood they should be female.. or am I wrong? 

I googled this a million times and didn't get quite as specific of an answer as I was hoping... So anyone with some experienced advice, I would appreciate it. 

Thanks


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## oscarmiya (Dec 13, 2008)

I forgot to add, this was the only plant I had growing at the time so I know there was absolutely no males around... while she was flowering, there was a few other plants in the Veg room but again, none are males OR flowering.


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## Pdiddy (Dec 14, 2008)

someone posted in another thread that this occurrence is normal for some strains late in flowering. he dais it is not a hermie or pollination from another male. some females will just produce a seed or 2, or 3


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## burlingo (Dec 14, 2008)

how long was it flowering for?


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## Johnnyorganic (Dec 14, 2008)

It is likely your female was accidentally pollinated. Pollen is very tiny and is very resilient. Transfer is easy, the source being hands or clothes.

Germinate them bitches and grow 'em.

Good luck and good growing.


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## Seamaiden (Dec 14, 2008)

I agree with Mr. Organic. It would be so easy for some pollen to have gotten onto your clothing, hair, shoes, and it just takes a few grains to do the job.


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## burlingo (Dec 14, 2008)

is it true that the longer a plant is flowering the more likely it is to go hermi?

because it's trying to keep itself going, through seeds?

or am i insane? possibly....


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## oscarmiya (Dec 14, 2008)

Thanks for the replies everyone. 

I have not been around ANY male plants for at least 7 months so unless there was some male pollen floating in the air outside, no pollen should have been on myself.

She was flowering for 61 Days before the trich's turned about 40% amber, which is when I cut.

To sum it up, I am 200% sure there was NO pollen in my house unless some bioatch is growing some males around my house, which my closest neighbor is about half mile away and are old farmers, so i HIGHLY doubt that was the case.

I was leaning more towards something I did wrong, possibly Ph (I checked PH every 3-4 days, going to start Ph'ing everyday now though) and I over nuted her once but not Terribly bad. I've read several threads saying a plant can go herm with any stress but I just thought it was odd to see only 3 seeds, on 1 bud and then none anywhere else.

Fuck it- I'll plant these 3 bitches, keep my clones and just keep a close eye for some ball sacks when its time. heh, I just thought- its winter up here so there would be no males outside anywhere. Crazy shit. Either way- I appreciate all the replies fella's.

If this has happen to anyone and they where 100% positive there was no male pollination, please let me know what the hell you think would have caused this. A couple seeds isn't bad to me, but I don't really want to grow 4 hermi plants if I don't have to.


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## SenorSanteria (Dec 14, 2008)

A female will sometimes pollenate itself (like a tiny mutation) as a last ditch effort to reproduce. It was coming to the end of its life cycle without any seeds, so it probably hermied ever so slightly to continue the survival of the species. Nature is amazing, huh?


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## oscarmiya (Dec 14, 2008)

SenorSanteria said:


> A female will sometimes pollenate itself (like a tiny mutation) as a last ditch effort to reproduce. It was coming to the end of its life cycle without any seeds, so it probably hermied ever so slightly to continue the survival of the species. Nature is amazing, huh?


Haha, if there wasn't enough stoners to keep the weed plant from extinction mother natures got our back. I like that lol +rep


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## Hairy Bob (Dec 14, 2008)

A plant will normally only hermie if it's stressed, if a plant is treated well all it's life chances are it will be a lovely girl. I read a thread on here a while ago by someone who said a plant grown from any old, non-feminized seed will almost always be female if it's cared for properly. I've germed 20+ seeds and never had a male, so I must be doing something right!


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## oscarmiya (Dec 14, 2008)

Hairy Bob,

What I understood was that;

A seed germed from a Hermi'd female plant, not male pollen, is what they call 'Feminized' seeds. So in my case, those 3 seeds SHOULD be female because there was no Male chromosome (at least not that I know or see possible) to change the Females... uhh DNA?? lol not sure what to call it but I think its something right along those lines.

Your germ rate is unheard of unless your just one lucky son of a bitch. Most likely you got a bunch feminized seeds. If not though, congrats man- fuck growin pot go play the lotto bro


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## Johnnyorganic (Dec 14, 2008)

I'm going to stick with the accidental transfer possibility. That would explain why you only have three seeds. An individual pollen is invisible to the naked eye and could have been accidentally introduced to your plants without your knowledge. Pollen can travel for miles.

If you had a hermie in your grow, you would have seen evidence of male parts on at least one of your plants by now. Hermies don't bust pollen and then disappear the male parts.


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## oscarmiya (Dec 14, 2008)

Johnnyorganic said:


> I'm going to stick with the accidental transfer possibility. That would explain why you only have three seeds. An individual pollen is invisible to the naked eye and could have been accidentally introduced to your plants without your knowledge. Pollen can travel for miles.
> 
> If you had a hermie in your grow, you would have seen evidence of male parts on at least one of your plants by now. Hermies don't bust pollen and then disappear the male parts.


I was just thinking.. Another one of my buddies had some starting and I went over to help him determine if they were Male or Female, but they were only pre-flowers... Maybe some got on me then but I thought the pre flowers were just that, pre. Could just be tho. 

Thanks for showin the concern bro and everyone else who posted.. I think my original question has been answered or at least gave me a few idea's as to what happened. Appreciate it all 

Time to finish clippin


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## born2killspam (Dec 14, 2008)

There is a scale of hermie expression, some show obviously and polinate a ton, others you'd swear were 100% female yet contain a few mystery seeds..
For all you know, a little pollen leaked out of a nearby fellow grower's garden, and got into yours some how..
Perhaps you did trigger it to herm slightly, perhaps its pretty much predisposed to herm slightly..
They're all valid guesses until you have more experience with these genetics..


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## nicktheburk (Dec 14, 2008)

one thing i would think is. The plant that you cloned it from was exposed to a male plant. I'm thinking that maybe the even tho the uncloned plant didnt spit off seeds, the clone did.. could be a rare case there.


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## JonnyBtreed (Dec 14, 2008)

Def. My buddy was growing outside and had about 8-10 plants going, Out of those 6 turned out female. Now he's quite the greenthumb and taught me everything I know about growing outside - he's been at it for a good 20 years or so. Anyways these plants turn into ten foot tall monster plants with colas the size of my calf and low and behold upon harvest, what did we find? Buds completely PACKED with seeds. I'm talking a good 4 pounds of herb COMPLETELY packed with seed. We decided to take a little walk and see if we could find the culprit. Turns out some kids started a grow out in the woods behind his house and planted about 20 plants. Whether they didn't know what they were doing or they got busted for something else, they never came back to fish out the males- or collect their females. But my buddy suffered bad. Goes to show how far pollen can travel. ( it was a good half mile into the woods.)


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## Perfextionist420 (Dec 14, 2008)

JonnyBtreed said:


> Def. My buddy was growing outside and had about 8-10 plants going, Out of those 6 turned out female. Now he's quite the greenthumb and taught me everything I know about growing outside - he's been at it for a good 20 years or so. Anyways these plants turn into ten foot tall monster plants with colas the size of my calf and low and behold upon harvest, what did we find? Buds completely PACKED with seeds. I'm talking a good 4 pounds of herb COMPLETELY packed with seed. We decided to take a little walk and see if we could find the culprit. Turns out some kids started a grow out in the woods behind his house and planted about 20 plants. Whether they didn't know what they were doing or they got busted for something else, they never came back to fish out the males- or collect their females. But my buddy suffered bad. Goes to show how far pollen can travel. ( it was a good half mile into the woods.)


ouch man very sorry to hear about that, it mustve been pretty painful.

anyway the whole thing doesnt sound that bad if you only found 3 seeds i wouldnt worry about it, not like it ruined your plants or anything


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## JonnyBtreed (Dec 14, 2008)

Well, we got all the " Skunk 1 x whatever " seeds we could ever want, thats for sure.


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## JonnyBtreed (Dec 14, 2008)

I would assume they're feminized as well.


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## oscarmiya (Dec 14, 2008)

born2killspam said:


> There is a scale of hermie expression, some show obviously and polinate a ton, others you'd swear were 100% female yet contain a few mystery seeds..
> For all you know, a little pollen leaked out of a nearby fellow grower's garden, and got into yours some how..
> Perhaps you did trigger it to herm slightly, perhaps its pretty much predisposed to herm slightly..
> They're all valid guesses until you have more experience with these genetics..


Thats pretty much what I gathered from everyone's post earlier. Not knowing the genetics of this plant yet, I tested the limit on a few things in Veg and Flower but nothing crazy. I think I've got the nutes about dialed in for the clones I took from her though. Just was odd and I'm glad it was only 3 seeds.



nicktheburk said:


> one thing i would think is. The plant that you cloned it from was exposed to a male plant. I'm thinking that maybe the even tho the uncloned plant didnt spit off seeds, the clone did.. could be a rare case there.


The plant I got this clone from did Hermi on him. Which was sort of why I asked in the original question of.. if you clone from a Hermi, is that clone going to be a Hermi as well...



JonnyBtreed said:


> Def. My buddy was growing outside and had about 8-10 plants going, Out of those 6 turned out female. Now he's quite the greenthumb and taught me everything I know about growing outside - he's been at it for a good 20 years or so. Anyways these plants turn into ten foot tall monster plants with colas the size of my calf and low and behold upon harvest, what did we find? Buds completely PACKED with seeds. I'm talking a good 4 pounds of herb COMPLETELY packed with seed. We decided to take a little walk and see if we could find the culprit. Turns out some kids started a grow out in the woods behind his house and planted about 20 plants. Whether they didn't know what they were doing or they got busted for something else, they never came back to fish out the males- or collect their females. But my buddy suffered bad. Goes to show how far pollen can travel. ( it was a good half mile into the woods.)


I have to admit, that made me laugh (two stoners growing next to eachother without knowing) but DAMN would I be pissed. That would completely suck ass. I've heard pollen can travel a ways too.. crazy shit-


Alright, well I am a little further in my harvest here.. I've got about 3/4 of her harvested and still only those 3 seeds found so far. I am going to post this picture up in the harvest section with a few others but I figured I would show you guys the plant/bud in question. I'll post the details in the harvest section.


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## JonnyBtreed (Dec 14, 2008)

Nice setup man


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## born2killspam (Dec 14, 2008)

If the mother went herm then is almost positively got a predisposition to do so.. Start looking for new genetics now..


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## oscarmiya (Dec 14, 2008)

JonnyBtreed said:


> Nice setup man


Thanks bro. Went through a couple others before I did this one.. I am happy with this one, for being not legal... yet  Michigan



born2killspam said:


> If the mother went herm then is almost positively got a predisposition to do so.. Start looking for new genetics now..


Thats kind of what I was wondering. I planned to order some seeds here soon anyways but I will still finish these other plants out in the mean time and see what those 3 seeds produce.


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## madtrapper (Dec 14, 2008)

don't sweat it this happens quite often the plant fertilized itself and the seeds are most likely females as long as you are sure there were no actual males around I've often found a few seeds in my mature bud and so far when germinated they have all been females also some strains tend to do this more than others - stress ( light leaks,too hot etc) will sometimes cause seeding but there are lots of seeds when its stress from my experiences this be a true statement good luck


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## born2killspam (Dec 15, 2008)

Personally I'd rather know there is a male present than find mystery seeds.. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, plants that tend to herm without cause tend to breed plants that do the same.. Good feminized seeds are bred from females that resist turning herm through any natural stress you inflict, and only grow pollen after being chemically treated with giberellic acid, or an ionic silver solution..
Even this method increases the likelyhood of herms in a seed batch.. (Probably due to mutations from the chemicals)..
I'm not a fan of any feminized seeds, but I take offense when ppl purposely produce poor candidates.. Your crop isn't the only crop at risk, as stories have already explained..
I'm not going to push you to abort these at all, I just want to nip Madtrapper's opinion in the bud..


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## Seamaiden (Dec 15, 2008)

I don't think that's actually how "proper" feminized seeds are made (if you can call feminized "proper").


burlingo said:


> is it true that the longer a plant is flowering the more likely it is to go hermi?
> 
> because it's trying to keep itself going, through seeds?
> 
> or am i insane? possibly....


 Not based on my experience, they just keep flowering until they die.


Johnnyorganic said:


> I'm going to stick with the accidental transfer possibility. That would explain why you only have three seeds. An individual pollen is invisible to the naked eye and could have been accidentally introduced to your plants without your knowledge. Pollen can travel for miles.
> 
> If you had a hermie in your grow, you would have seen evidence of male parts on at least one of your plants by now. Hermies don't bust pollen and then disappear the male parts.


Exactly. You'd have found the remains. Ask yourself this; Is itmore likely than not that the female plant went hermie for a short period of time to pollinate itself and then "sucked" back in the male parts, or that somehow just a few grains of pollen made their way onto your girl's buds? To the best of my knowledge few, if any, people are able to make their way around the world without picking up a whole lot of micro-sized stuff. From dirt to pollen to dust to mites. 

Seeds, by the way, are not a sign of hermaphrodism. They're a sign that she got knocked up.


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## burlingo (Dec 15, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> Not based on my experience, they just keep flowering until they die.


oh right, just something i read. sounded kind of plausible.


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## Seamaiden (Dec 15, 2008)

I'm not saying it can't happen, I know they herm late in flowering (that's gotta look weird). But, I'm also saying that I don't know that letting them go will cause it, either. There is just so much shit that these plants can do to go weird that's all related to sex that it can be difficult to tease apart unless you find obvious evidence.

After a zip my sister got me of some med grade stuff that had THREE measly seeds, and this stuff was so clean, I really think it's more possible that just a few grains of pollen made their way in somehow. Clearly, that's just my opinion. But that's also because it seems weird to me that it any plant would make so little pollen, if there were a herm, that you'd only get a very few seeds. Each male flower makes a lot of pollen, so.. that's how it seems to me is all.


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## born2killspam (Dec 15, 2008)

I've seen pollen sacs form on over mature bud that was otherwise safe from hermaphrodism.. It obviously happens far too late to polinate its own crop though..


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## burlingo (Dec 15, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> I'm not saying it can't happen, I know they herm late in flowering (that's gotta look weird). But, I'm also saying that I don't know that letting them go will cause it, either. There is just so much shit that these plants can do to go weird that's all related to sex that it can be difficult to tease apart unless you find obvious evidence.
> 
> After a zip my sister got me of some med grade stuff that had THREE measly seeds, and this stuff was so clean, I really think it's more possible that just a few grains of pollen made their way in somehow. Clearly, that's just my opinion. But that's also because it seems weird to me that it any plant would make so little pollen, if there were a herm, that you'd only get a very few seeds. Each male flower makes a lot of pollen, so.. that's how it seems to me is all.


yes, i agree with you on this one. 

pollen does seem the most likely cause of this. well, it would certainly makes the most sense. it's rather amazing what this plant can do! so many little tricks up its sleeve. 

i'm surprised i didn't pollinate any of my flowers. i had males very close to them at times.


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## born2killspam (Dec 15, 2008)

I have seen single pollen sacs pretty much buried in female flowers, and if the sac doesn't develop properly then it likely won't release alot, or alot may be infertile, or your luck may be due to the location of the offending alleged pollen producer..
Do you spray your plants with water regularily?
I just know how subtle a herm can be, and since the mother plant hermed out, I definately wouldn't write it off as a possibility..


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## Johnnyorganic (Dec 15, 2008)

born2killspam said:


> I have seen single pollen sacs pretty much buried in female flowers, and if the sac doesn't develop properly then it likely won't release alot, or alot may be infertile, or your luck may be due to the location of the offending alleged pollen producer..
> Do you spray your plants with water regularily?
> I just know how subtle a herm can be, and since the mother plant hermed out, I definately wouldn't write it off as a possibility..


There is no question that a clone from a hermaphrodite will be identical. However, the OP simply asked the question. 

Correct me if I am wrong, but he did not establish that the mother was a hermie.

When hermies appear they are not subtle. The male parts are unambiguous and when they pop they blow pollen dust everywhere in the vicinity. An undetected hermie eruption would result in much more than three seeds.

SM is quite correct in saying seeds are only evidence of pollination. Nothing more.


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## born2killspam (Dec 15, 2008)

Sometimes hermies are obvious, not always.. 
And he did say


> The plant I got this clone from did Hermi on him. Which was sort of why I asked in the original question of.. if you clone from a Hermi, is that clone going to be a Hermi as well...


And to expand on an explanation there, the clone will carry the same genetics.. If the mother's genetics naturally cause male growth, then that trait will be carried to the clones, and partially to seeds if bred with a male.. If the mother's genes naturally cause it to grow male parts when subjected to a certain stress type threshold, then clones will also be susceptable to herming if this threshold is exceeded on the clone plant regardless what happens to the mother..
Its tough to say how much of the stress inflicted on the mother prior to the cutting will affect the clone as hormone levels could be a big factor during cell differentiation..
Its also worth noting that herm expression tends to increase as opportunities for random genetic mutation increase.. For instance, true feminizing candidates that have been stress tested very well, and bred with an equally impressive female or self polinated via chemical treatments will produce offspring with adecent tendency to herm.. This can't be explained by punnet squares..
A seedling is going to be genetically 'cleaner' than a clone, and a 1st generation clone will be cleaner than a 2nd gen etc..


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## Johnnyorganic (Dec 15, 2008)

I stand corrected. Thank you. +rep.

But that begs the question as to why none of his clones showed hermie. I suppose it could be that the mother had a marginal genetic probability of going hermie and was stressed into it, while the genetic probability was low enough to keep an unstressed clone from doing the same.

Hmmm....

Until the OP states emphatically that male parts are detected on any of his clones, I'll maintain the transfer theory.


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## born2killspam (Dec 15, 2008)

Yea, from the sounds of things (if it was herm polinated), the herm expression is likely stress related, and managable with his growing technique.. Its quite possible that although the plants have the propensity to herm under stress, he did not allow that to happen and got pollen transfer.. (Quite likely from the original owner if that did happen)..
Do you know where in your grow area that branch was located? Was it up front or buried??
On the otherhand, if they're grown out, and any prove to be true males then pollen transfer from a different source must be the answer.. If they're all identical females (within reason) then its likely female pollen from either his, or his buddy's plants.. If they're all female but really heterozygous then perhaps they came from some mystery herm in an unknown garden..
Actually though, unfortunately 3/3 females is statistically irrelevant and if they show heterozygous nature then they could just as easily be male polinated.. With 3 seeds, only obvious genetic duplicates, or the presence of a true male can yield any worthwhile data..


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## Seamaiden (Dec 16, 2008)

That incredibly low number of seeds, plus while he says the mother plant did become a hermaphrodite he didn't say to what degree. Is it possible for a herm to produce so little pollen? Did he find any obvious male flowers, or anything that was questionable, on any of the plants he grew himself? That's the thing that seems inconsistent with an undiscovered hermaphrodite to me.


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## born2killspam (Dec 16, 2008)

If its a stress induced herm, then its possible only one plant teetered the threshold to produce any male parts.. I have seen definate staminate flowers buried in buds..
Herms can be subtle, and there are alot of factors beyond that.. If the offending flowers don't get the light necessary to mature, if the grower sprays the tops, if the offending flower is directly inline with the exhaust..
Consider how many ppl grow bagseed and find a few random seeds, so they grow them out until eventually their crop gets overtaken by seed..
Herm expression really can span the board though.. Some equatorial sativas are genetically predisposed to grow intersex flowers, but you'd never know it to look at one..


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## SlowToker (Dec 16, 2008)

Enjoyed the read, regardless of grammer or spelling.


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## born2killspam (Dec 16, 2008)

I always try to make sure I don't make any grammatical errors while I'm criticizing grammar on the internet..


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