# Co2 Perfection



## mountaindude530 (Oct 31, 2008)

I've found soo many differing opinions on co2, some that I strongly disagree with, I wanted to see if we could all put in 2 cents and find some commonground.. 

EVERYONE'S opinion is welcome, go ahead and post up

Here's mine:
Optimal level= 1500 pps which means a 1200 ppm increase (.0012 x room volume)

optimal temp= 80-90F (NOT HIGHER)

inject *slowly* for a *longer* period of time (ex: 0.5fph for a whole hour VS. 2fph for 15 minutes)

*and finally.. set the injection tube up in front of a fan and blow straight at the plant.. yes the co2 is heavier than air and will fall, *
*but the stomata which is the structure on the plant responsible for gas exchange is on the underside of the leaves*

I learned that in one of my bio classes. many people don't know that and I think thats an important thing to know
alright guys.. shoot


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## BongJuice (Oct 31, 2008)

Personally, I think if anyone wants to grow, Co2 is definitely a necessity.
I've been growing with Co2 for awhile now and the all I can say is, "*It Works".*
I still can't believe how fast my plants grow with using Co2.
Before I started using Co2 I bought a Co2 meter and put it in my room, and found out that my plants were only getting in between 400-600 ppm's of atmospheric Co2. 
Now my plants get in between 1400 - 1800 ppm's of Co2 for 15 minutes every hour while the lights are on. 
My plant's are bushier,healthier, and they look like their on steroids. 
I use Co2 for the entire grow, I start using it once I see roots coming out of the starter rockwool cube, all the way to the day of harvesting.
Co2 is a plants air to breathe. 
This is the way I look at it. If I (human being) was breathing in 1500 ppm's of Co2 I'd probably get sick eventually. But for plants, Co2 is their air. 
When you keep Co2 levels at optimum levels, plants breathe at optimum levels.
The whole setup for Co2 was kinda expensive, and I don't regret
buying it. Everything that I had to get came to about $500. 
In my vegetation area, I have the Co2 line hanging about six inches under 
the light refelctor. In my vegetation area I use T5 CFL's and I hooked up 6 inch eye hooks to the reflector and just ran my line through the eyes, so the CO2 drops right on top of my plants. This setup works well, because I 
keep the light inches away from my the plants tops.
In my flowering room, The line runs through eye hooks that are connected to the walls, and the line runs in between the plants. It's sorta hard to explain.
So if your thinking about getting Co2, definitely get it. I wish I could give
you some numbers on the differences between using it and not using it.
Instead of using numbers....
My expression on my face was "Holy Shit"....It works!!!!


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## mountaindude530 (Oct 31, 2008)

Just ahead of time I wanna say, if it ain't broke don't fix it.. but just a little bit of info.. using co2 during the veg state causes the plants to stretch and stay skinny.. which may not be a problem if you only veg for like a week or something.. but it's just something to keep in mind.. congrats that you haven't had any problems though

Definately us co2 at the beginning of flower.. a couple buddy's of mine have said that your supposed to stop injecting co2 in the last couple weeks.. I've personally never done this, and I think it's a wivestail.. but I unno, curious if anyone else heard that

*#'s*
*In my old grow(Loong time ago): I went from just a little over 1 pound, to over 3 pounds a harvest with co2 injection*


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## BongJuice (Oct 31, 2008)

mountaindude530 said:


> Just ahead of time I wanna say, if it ain't broke don't fix it.. but just a little bit of info.. using co2 during the veg state causes the plants to stretch and stay skinny.. which may not be a problem if you only veg for like a week or something.. but it's just something to keep in mind.. congrats that you haven't had any problems though


 
That's bullshit man, where the hell did hear that "Mumbo Jumbo". 
This is why I read books on how to grow, and not listen to every idiot 
on Rollitup.

Here's something for you from one of my books:
*[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Co2 Application: Rooted Cutting/Seedling Stage[/FONT]*

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The researchers and commercial growers discovered that adding Co2 to plants at the seeding/cutting stage for about two weeks produced two benefits; faster early growth and greater final crop yield, even without extra Co2 during green growth and crop production! This is useful information for hobby gardeners since a little extra carbon dioxide for rooting cuttings and seedlings can help plants so much.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you use tall, clear covers over your baby plants, release a little Co2 under the cover to raise Co2 levels to about 1500 ppM. Remove covers to let in fresh air after a few hours, and be sure plants have only fresh air (no Co2) during dark periods. The two-week period leading up to transplanting is the most effective time for this Co2 technique. If you are already using Co2 for other purposes, try treating your "small fries" with this proven growth and crop stimulator.[/FONT]

*[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Co2 Applications: Vegetative (green growth) Stage[/FONT]*

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Once plants are 'established' in green growth stage (full light levels, full strength fertilizers, spreading roots and new top growth), it's time to consider adding Co2 to your rapidly growing green plants. Your decision should be based on the length of time your crop will be in green growth as well as an impartial evaluation of the garden's growing conditions. Plants with a long green-growth period (30 days and more) would benefit from Co2 enrichment, growing to a desired size more quickly. Growth hormones used along with extra Co2 and increased food strength, results in faster, healthier green growth plants.[/FONT]


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## BigBudBalls (Nov 1, 2008)

BongJuice said:


> That's bullshit man, where the hell did hear that "Mumbo Jumbo".
> This is why I read books on how to grow, and not listen to every idiot
> on Rollitup


(an idiot steps up and says.....  )

Agreed! Plants use CO2 to make its food (sugars) for growth throughout the plant's life. You have more chance of stretching vegging under HPS (which works just peachy fine. And from what I've heard flowering under MH)

overall statement:
Stretching is the plant looking for light and tossing energy towards that. If it has all it wants, lights, water, nutes, CO2, it isn"t not going to go look for it.

BJ, good summation on your first response in this thread. (and great points on this one)


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## mountaindude530 (Nov 2, 2008)

yea you don't have to listen to every idiot on rollitup, thats why I said we can offer input, not facts.. you don't like the advice, go to another fuckin thread

I said you don't want your plants to stretch because stretching during vegatative state can increase internode space (more branch in between nugs) which last time I checked was a bad thing. 
also most people have a limited growing height which would mean that you don't want your plants to get taller unless they're growin nugs during that stretch.. 

And as for the books.. Ed rosethenhal has a pretty infamous book that people read for years, and he said that 2000 ppms of co2 was good.. now we know that is a bad thing.. so you can't believe everything you read in books either


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## Cloud9nine (Nov 2, 2008)

man i sure wish i had a C02 set up to increase my yield, im really getting fucked when it comes time for my harvest and my strain is so very good. at least u guys have a fucking co2 set up. cant wait till next harvest to produce some $$ to buy one


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## Bagelthief (Nov 2, 2008)

i have also heard that co2 causes stretch in veg. but i have no experience to back that up. i just got my co2 system, im still waiting for all the stuff to come in the mail. i got a generator, CD18 from greenair. i also got a new AC from compact appliance that has the dual hose design so i can keep my atmosphere. all i need now is my controller. i know where to get one for 100 bucks, so thats not too big of an issue....but im short on cash because of the afformentioned products that i bought...so i might have to wait a little while to get it. my plants are one week and 2 days into flower...i just hope i get my shit together soon so i can get the added benifit of the co2....

anyways, does anyone else have any input about co2 during veg? iv heard a lot of mixed thing about co2 in veg, from it causes stretch, to they dont need it, to it only shaves one week off total veg time, to it works wonders and its great. any other people with experience want to chime in?


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## Devlinstorm (Nov 2, 2008)

i know nothing about CO2 but i was wondering if someone could tell me if using dry ice works for increasing Co2 levels in your grow room ... just as like a temporary boost. 

Dry ice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## norcalkronic (Nov 2, 2008)

I believe you guys might be using the term "stretch" in the wrong way. When a plant "stretches" it is searching for more light. It is correct that the internode space does increase with light stretching but when a plant stretches for light the braches also grow much more vertically. The plant is tall and skinny and doesnt bush out at all. This vertical growth of branches is a trait that i have yet to see in my veg room that is supplemented with C02. I have, however, noticed longer internode space all around. My veg plants grow the exact same shape as the naturally would except they get bigger. They grow out just as much as they grow tall. Obviously my plants have longer internode space, they had to get bigger some how. 

I dont believe the term "stretch" can be properly applied to a plant that is growing bigger due to the addition of a C02 enriched environment.



> using co2 during the veg state causes the plants to stretch and stay skinny


I personally have never seen these symptoms.


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## norcalkronic (Nov 2, 2008)

Devlin storm please do not hijack this thread... start a new one or just search the forums for the answer...


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## Devlinstorm (Nov 2, 2008)

norcalkronic said:


> Devlin storm please do not hijack this thread... start a new one or just search the forums for the answer...


sorry just thought someone participating in this thread might know ... my bad!


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## Hotwired (Nov 2, 2008)

Bagelthief said:


> i also got a new AC from compact appliance that has the dual hose design so i can keep my atmosphere.


 
Which A/C did you choose for this? 

Can you explain a bit on how this is done? I'm interested in getting a portable A/C with co2 for my tent. I just had no clue on how to run a portable without losing atmosphere. Where would you run the hoses? I have no window to use so I'm wondering how this is accomplished.

Thx


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## Bagelthief (Nov 2, 2008)

i got this AC. link. most portable AC's have only one hose, so they draw air from inside the room to cool the motor/compressor/coils. with a dual hose model like the one i bought, the air is drawn from outside and cools the same exact thing, just in a closed system. so the atmosphere inside the room isnt touched. if you have no window to vent though, you wont be able to use a portable AC...why cant you use a window?


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## norcalkronic (Nov 2, 2008)

If you cant cut two 4 or 6in duct holes and have no windows your last option is to use a split system.


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## Bagelthief (Nov 2, 2008)

that shit looks expensive...


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## natrone23 (Nov 2, 2008)

Bagelthief said:


> i got this AC. link. most portable AC's have only one hose, so they draw air from inside the room to cool the motor/compressor/coils. with a dual hose model like the one i bought, the air is drawn from outside and cools the same exact thing, just in a closed system. so the atmosphere inside the room isnt touched. if you have no window to vent though, you wont be able to use a portable AC...why cant you use a window?


Just to note I have a portable A/c and I vent the hot air into my cieling via a hole i cut in the cieling sheetrock, I live in an apartment so there is a space inbetween floors where i vent all the hot air. I works great by the way, if its possible in your setup thats what i would do. I have the A/c unit on a shelf up high in my growroom so tthe floor space is used for plants and not equipment. I also have a bucket on another shelf that collects the water from the A/C slash dehumidifier (all my equipment (ballasts, A/c, bucket all on shelfs that i built, also get all the cords and what not out of the way)...........anybody with heat problems i would suggest getting an a/c and doing it like mine if you can, you wont regret it, and i got mine from HD for 300$. heres some pics of my setup in the first pic disregard my carbon scrubber doing some maintenece, in the last few pics you see the tube that runs from the A/c to the bucket (by the way great water to water your plants with prac zero ppm) hopefully this helps anyone looking into a A/c


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## norcalkronic (Nov 2, 2008)

I believe, but can not fully tell from your post, that your system will not work efficiently with a c02 system. It looks like your AC unit is the kind with only one duct exhausting hot air. in order to avoid losing c02 you would need an AC with two ducts such as the one mentioned earlier. These AC systems cool the heat coils independently via an intake and exhaust that are ducted and never touch the enriched air.


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## norcalkronic (Nov 2, 2008)

> that shit looks expensive...


heres one for 425 bucks + shipping. not too bad i think the portables are 300-400. Plus split system is the most efficient.

http://www.buyunit.com/servlet/the-504/Air-Con--dsh--9000/Detail


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## Hotwired (Nov 2, 2008)

Bagelthief said:


> i got this AC. link. most portable AC's have only one hose, so they draw air from inside the room to cool the motor/compressor/coils. with a dual hose model like the one i bought, the air is drawn from outside and cools the same exact thing, just in a closed system. so the atmosphere inside the room isnt touched. if you have no window to vent though, you wont be able to use a portable AC...why cant you use a window?


 
So you are saying that the portable A/C has 2 intakes? Both pulling air from outside the grow area? Where is the exhaust? I'm missing something here.

I have 2 extra closeable socks on one side on my tent. I'm sure I can use one for intake and one for exhaust. It's possible I wouldn't need a window cause I can vent elsewhere.


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## Hydrokronics (Nov 2, 2008)

mountaindude530 said:


> Just ahead of time I wanna say, if it ain't broke don't fix it.. but just a little bit of info.. using co2 during the veg state causes the plants to stretch and stay skinny.. which may not be a problem if you only veg for like a week or something.. but it's just something to keep in mind.. congrats that you haven't had any problems though /quote]
> 
> 
> I am almost possitive that co2 would have nothing to do with strectching. i injected co2 for entire life cycle and have NO stretching issues. in fact i have issues with my girls no growing upward and being extremly bushy.
> ...


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## norcalkronic (Nov 2, 2008)

> So you are saying that the portable A/C has 2 intakes? Both pulling air from outside the grow area? Where is the exhaust? I'm missing something here.


An Ac unit runs of the phenomenon that if you squeeze freon gas through a set of tubes that allow it to change from gas to liquid based on the size of the tube you can essentially move energy from one side of the tubes to the other because of a property all subtances have called a phase change. 

The hot side of the coils is cooled using an independent fan. The intake for the hot side and the exhaust for the hot side run freely of the cool side. This means that the coil is cooled without ever causing a draft or pressure change or leak to the room.

The cool side of the coils also has an independent fan sucking air from in the room past the cold coils and back into the room. The cold air intake and exhaust are both in the room on the unit.

With this AC system C02 can not escape.

Perhaps a picture can best explain it.

A portable AC that will work and can be used while the room is being enriched will have two separate exhaust and intake ducts only to cool the hot side. These units work similar to a window unit. Imagine that the red arrow on the left of this picture is completely ducted outside using two ducts.


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## Bagelthief (Nov 2, 2008)

the two hoses arent two intakes, only one is an intake, and the other hose is the exhaust. basically, its just one giant hose with a fan in the middle. the fan pulls air in from one hose. this air then cools the motor/compressor/coils. then this hot air is pushed out by the same fan though the other hose, or the exhaust hose. so the inside of the tent or room is never touched.


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## Hotwired (Nov 2, 2008)

Ok, I got it down now. Thanks for the replies and diagrams. They finally turned on the light above my head 

I think I can do this with a tent. Just pull from my room and vent thru outside. I have other means of doing this 

You guys chose some strong ass units. 14k btu is a lot. I wonder how big of a unit I would need with a 5 x 10 x 6.5 foot tent running two 1000 watts? 

I think someone had previously stated that the room temps have to be in the 80-90 range for co2 to work. Is this true? So you would really only need the a/c to "cool" to about 85 right?

I would probably save $$ on my central a/c


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## norcalkronic (Nov 3, 2008)

that is correct i leave my ac on about 85.


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