# Who Believes In God?



## iblazethatkush (Dec 6, 2007)

Do you believe in God?


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 6, 2007)

TOTALLY, COMPLETELY, and WHOLE HEARTEDLY!!!!!


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## Lacy (Dec 6, 2007)

*Yes blaze I believe in God, devine intelligence, universal intelligence etc etc...however I am not in the least bit religious. **(I am not against or for religion but just find it a bit too dogmatic for me.(controlled etc)*

*I hope nobody's gonna atttack me about this. *


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## Lacy (Dec 6, 2007)

*Wow!! Blaze!  You believe in God!!!!*

*Awesome blaze. You just made my day.*
*Thanks. *


iblazethatkush said:


> Do you believe in God?


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## Steve (Dec 6, 2007)

A big negative there cap'n. Or at least I sure hope there isn't one!


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 6, 2007)

Alot of people believe that if you smoke weed, that you dont, but who put weed here, so how can it be wrong, I am not religous, but i am on FIRE FOR CHRIST, but i am not a person who judges, and i feel no one has the right.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 6, 2007)

Lacy said:


> *Yes blaze I believe in God, devine intelligence, universal intelligence etc etc...however I am not in the least bit religious. **(I am not against or for religion but just find it a bit too dogmatic for me.(controlled etc)*
> 
> *I hope nobody's gonna atttack me about this. *


Awesome Lacy. I am not really that religious either but I do study the Bible and do believe in God. It may be a good thing that your not religious. If you study Revelations it talks about the Great Whore of Babylon, the deceiver of men on earth. There are many clues in Revelations that point out the Catholic Church as the Great Whore of Babylon. Jesus told us that you need only go through him to get to heaven. The Catholic Church and other religions say they get there orders from God and that you must go through them for salvation. Not all religions are like this. But, I feel most are corrupt._

"And upon her forehead was a name written, *MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."
*_I take that to mean the Catholic Church=Mystery, Babylon the Great. All religions started from the Catholic church=The mother of harlots.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 6, 2007)

I currently don't believe in the christian god. Considering the bible is the most historically accurate, where they have SOME facts to back the bible up, that makes the christian god the most believable out of the rest there is. Now that I have that out of the way, I do not believe in the christian god since I believe this universe happened upon by chance because of an imbalance of neutrino's in the big bang. Since we have now proven that the universe is consistently expanding outwards like a sphere then there had to have been a beginning point. Anyways, the argument christians try to use against my theory is that since we are such complex beings that we couldn't have happened by chance thus requiring a creative designer. Yet they fail to see how complex 'god' is considering he is omnipotent and omniscient. There couldn't be a more complex entity than 'god'. And if the argument is that complexity requires creative design then god would have to require a creative designer as well yet this is contrary to christian belief. Hence, I do not believe in god. There are other reasons too but this one sort of stands out.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 6, 2007)

Interesting theory. I can see how you think that.


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## abcdthc (Dec 6, 2007)

I believe in faith, and faith is what one must find within. Of course there are many ways where one can find faith, but the most important thing is to believe in yourself. 

.02¢


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## bwinn27 (Dec 6, 2007)

no i dont in order to free your mind you must seek out the truth -plato-


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## aattocchi (Dec 6, 2007)

Does any one know how many religons use the first 4 books from the Old Testiment Bible?


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 6, 2007)

No. How many? At least three.


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## bwinn27 (Dec 6, 2007)

i believe in love and truth, kindness, respect, but i DO not believe in god.


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## aattocchi (Dec 6, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> No. How many? At least three.


 I do not know Jew, catholic, christian, muslim, rasta, jahova's whitnesses, protistan, methodist, any more?


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 6, 2007)

aattocchi said:


> I do not know Jew, catholic, christian, muslim, rasta, jahova's whitnesses, protistan, methodist, any more?


IDK I heard there's a THC church that's allowed to grow weed b/c it's part of their religion. That sounds like my kind of thing, Growing weed and serving God, my two favorite things


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## bwinn27 (Dec 6, 2007)

i was baptized protistan


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## wdldtoker (Dec 6, 2007)

THC church???


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## aattocchi (Dec 6, 2007)

wdldtoker said:


> THC church???


I go there all day long!


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## wdldtoker (Dec 6, 2007)

any thc churches here in northern cali?


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## aattocchi (Dec 6, 2007)

wdldtoker said:


> any thc churches here in northern cali?


 I stay at home for mine, lol!


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## abcdthc (Dec 6, 2007)

aattocchi said:


> I stay at home for mine, lol!


A-FREAKN-MEN


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## wdldtoker (Dec 6, 2007)

lol amen!!!!!


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## CrazyChester (Dec 7, 2007)

I've learned in my nearly 60 years not to discuss politics or religion among casual friends. But illegal substances are OK. Oh, by the way, Oberman really Bitch slapped bush tonight. Ha!


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 7, 2007)

Well here are some other things I have problems with:
Moses; First of all, the idea of an ark that was supposedly capable of carrying 2 of every animal in the world being built in one mans life-time by that one man with little help is inconceivable. Secondly, Moses is based on a Syrian myth about 'Misis'.

Another thing is that the mythical overlay in the bible is almost unbearable; to me that is.

The Christ-like figure goes all the way back to Greek mythology of Hercules. He was born of a virgin, Alcmene, (this is original mythology, I'm greek. lol) a son for a father, Zeus, and the only begotten. 'Savior' of the greek people, thier 'Sotuer'. Hercules was also 'the prince of peace' and 'bringer of divine wisdom'. He died and joined his father on Olympus a thousand years before Gethsemane.

Taken alone the philosophical teachings of Jesus are Buddhism with a Hebrew accent. Kindness, tolerance, brotherhood, love, a ruthless realism acknowledging that life is as it is here on Earth, here and now. The kingdom of god, meaning, goodness is right here where it should be.

Besides, I think that trying to convince people through scare tactics (the possibility of Hell) and truth by faith rather than truth by proof is widely ignorant and completely unethical. Especially from a religion professing ethics, truth, tolerance, and love...

But, these are just my opinions and beliefs. I'm not trying to convert people to my beliefs, just giving my reasoning.

Like almost everyone on here, I live with acceptance and equilibrium of my surroundings. I have no problem with any religion just as long as they respect my beliefs as I respect theirs. 

Except scientology... that's not a religion... it's science-fiction. The creator of it even said so on his death-bed yet it's still followed...


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## mastakoosh (Dec 7, 2007)

rev3la7ion said:


> Well here are some other things I have problems with:
> Moses; First of all, the idea of an ark that was supposedly capable of carrying 2 of every animal in the world being built in one mans life-time by that one man with little help is inconceivable. Secondly, Moses is based on a Syrian myth about 'Misis'.
> 
> Another thing is that the mythical overlay in the bible is almost unbearable; to me that is.
> ...


 but tom cruise and john travolta follow it, so it must be right.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 7, 2007)

mastakoosh said:


> but tom cruise and john travolta follow it, so it must be right.


NICE!


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## Microdizzey (Dec 7, 2007)

there's gotta be a god...
think about how everything works, how everything is, everything that exists... 

some random ass thing was floating around in non-existance then all of a sudden exploded and created universe and everything in it that we have today?

i'll believe in god before that. lol 

i for one believe in god, i was raised as a christian and stuck to their beliefs for my whole life, but recently been thinking too much, so i don't really follow the religion, just have faith that god is out there.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 7, 2007)

Well I'm not saying I can explain everything. It's just that we've proven that the big bang theory actually happened. We don't know how it came to be or why. It could be that a creative designer created the ball of energy and the bible was completely made up. But we'll pretty much never know for a fact what actually happened. I just find the idea of a sentient being that can do anything, knows everything, is everywhere at once, and exists outside of time itself is hard to believe for me. lol

I was also raised as a christian and just can't accept what they teach in church any more.


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## crazy-mental (Dec 7, 2007)

i just think . if you belive, that you follow a good strict lifesyle.
but wouldnt it be boring if you tghought god was watching every thing you do.
i belive in karma. if thats awt?.


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## Microdizzey (Dec 7, 2007)

yeah truth is we really don't know so let's just enjoy shit while it lasts


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 7, 2007)

Microdizzey said:


> yeah truth is we really don't know so let's just enjoy shit while it lasts


 
I couldn't agree more. All we know is what people have told us. If we had to go on what people tell us everyday, well I think you can 'imagine' what would happen. McDonalds tells me everyday how good their food is, yet somehow I just dont believe them.  etc.

Why is it that when a religious person debates religion with a non religious person, its the religious person that gets so offended?


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## mastakoosh (Dec 7, 2007)

i have thought at times, if there is a heaven, can my dead grandmother(god bless her soul) see me jerk off? kind of freaks me out. i do believe in god. i only jerk off on days when the sun shines..


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## Microdizzey (Dec 7, 2007)

mastakoosh said:


> i have thought at times, if there is a heaven, can my dead grandmother(god bless her soul) see me jerk off? kind of freaks me out. i do believe in god. i only jerk off on days when the sun shines..


i thought about that too, with my grandpa. i hope hes not watching me cause i'd be pretty ashamed of things


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## mastakoosh (Dec 7, 2007)

Microdizzey said:


> i thought about that too, with my grandpa. i hope hes not watching me cause i'd be pretty ashamed of things


 i bet a lot of us have thought this lol.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 7, 2007)

Eh... sometimes... XD


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 7, 2007)

Yeah I think about that sometimes, but I try to push it out of mind. Because, otherwise I would feel guilty and be depressed all the time with all the bad shit I do


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## Lacy (Dec 7, 2007)

*Oh I am all for studying the bible if that is what works for you. I am one of these people that believe if your religion is working for you then its all good. I'm not against religion. from past experience, I have found the topic of religion brings about too many conflicts etc. Whereas just the belief in God itself is more neutrally charged. **I honestly believe that we are all believing in the same thing, just using different paths to get there.*

*Except of course those weird cults.*


iblazethatkush said:


> Awesome Lacy. I am not really that religious either but I do study the Bible and do believe in God. It may be a good thing that your not religious. If you study Revelations it talks about the Great Whore of Babylon, the deceiver of men on earth. There are many clues in Revelations that point out the Catholic Church as the Great Whore of Babylon. Jesus told us that you need only go through him to get to heaven. The Catholic Church and other religions say they get there orders from God and that you must go through them for salvation. Not all religions are like this. But, I feel most are corrupt.
> 
> _"And upon her forehead was a name written, *MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."*_
> I take that to mean the Catholic Church=Mystery, Babylon the Great. All religions started from the Catholic church=The mother of harlots.


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## Lacy (Dec 7, 2007)

*EXACTLY!! The biggest, greatest wars have all been started over religion.*

*Very sad. very sad.*


mountainSpliff said:


> I couldn't agree more. All we know is what people have told us. If we had to go on what people tell us everyday, well I think you can 'imagine' what would happen. McDonalds tells me everyday how good their food is, yet somehow I just dont believe them.  etc.
> 
> Why is it that when a religious person debates religion with a non religious person, its the religious person that gets so offended?


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 7, 2007)

mastakoosh said:


> i have thought at times, if there is a heaven, can my dead grandmother(god bless her soul) see me jerk off? kind of freaks me out. i do believe in god. i only jerk off on days when the sun shines..


lol. Cant remember, but is jerking off a sin?


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 7, 2007)

cause if it is I am going straight to hell!! eek!


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 7, 2007)

Need I even bring up the crusade's? I won't.


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## Lacy (Dec 7, 2007)

*Exactly. The most super-charged topics ever discussed.*


CrazyChester said:


> I've learned in my nearly 60 years not to discuss politics or religion among casual friends. But illegal substances are OK. Oh, by the way, Oberman really Bitch slapped bush tonight. Ha!


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 7, 2007)

Lacy said:


> *EXACTLY!! The biggest, greatest wars have all been started over religion.*
> 
> *Very sad. very sad.*


Yeah true. Maybe God is real and Good but religion is evil and here to distract us? Because the Bible clearly points out the Catholic church is evil, maybe this extends to all religions? Because it does say 'the mother of harlots'...


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 7, 2007)

Is'nt religion supposed to be positive? 

ok ok I go away now.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 7, 2007)

Lacy said:


> *Exactly. The most super-charged topics ever discussed.*


Hey this thread is going good so far. There's no arguing. I respect everybody's believes and they respect mine and it's all good So why can't we discuss?


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 7, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> Is'nt religion supposed to be positive?
> 
> ok ok I go away now.


Not when they make direct contradictions with the bible and try to lead you down a path contrary to what Jesus taught.


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## Lacy (Dec 7, 2007)

*This is so well written. *

*This is a bold topic you picked blaze.*
*But then again, you are a bold one.*

*Good subject but there is gonna be conflict. No doubt!*

*I'm even apprehensive about adding on my comments and I'm as outspoken as they get.*


rev3la7ion said:


> Well here are some other things I have problems with:
> Moses; First of all, the idea of an ark that was supposedly capable of carrying 2 of every animal in the world being built in one mans life-time by that one man with little help is inconceivable. Secondly, Moses is based on a Syrian myth about 'Misis'.
> 
> Another thing is that the mythical overlay in the bible is almost unbearable; to me that is.
> ...


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## Lacy (Dec 7, 2007)

*No blaze!!!!! Its all good. i did not mean anything negative at ALL about your thread. I think it is AWESOME that you have posted this question.*

*Its all good. Its all good.*


iblazethatkush said:


> Hey this thread is going good so far. There's no arguing. I respect everybody's believes and they respect mine and it's all good So why can't we discuss?


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 7, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> Yeah true. Maybe God is real and Good but religion is evil and here to distract us? Because the Bible clearly points out the Catholic church is evil, maybe this extends to all religions? Because it does say 'the mother of harlots'...


kewl, I like this ideology. But God is still a concept that someone told us about. What makes God real?


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## mastakoosh (Dec 7, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> lol. Cant remember, but is jerking off a sin?


 a lot of religions think so but i think you are fukkin with me haha. eating too much pizza is a sin too lol.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 7, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> kewl, I like this ideology. But God is still a concept that someone told us about. What makes God real?


That's easy: Jesus Christ, without him there is nothing to believe. And let's not forget that it was the religious leaders of his day that condemned Jesus to the cross. Religion can be a bad thing sometimes.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 7, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> That's easy: Jesus Christ, without him there is nothing to believe.


I believe that Jesus lived and that he was a great man who was a great leader. Pity we dont have more people like that in the world.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 7, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> I believe that Jesus lived and that he was a great man who was a great leader. Pity we dont have more people like that in the world.


Very true mountainSpliff. You don't think he was the son of God, though?


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## Lacy (Dec 7, 2007)

*God is something you find from within....not from without.*


mountainSpliff said:


> kewl, I like this ideology. But God is still a concept that someone told us about. What makes God real?


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## Lacy (Dec 7, 2007)

*Blaze dude. look in your pm box.*


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 7, 2007)

Lacy said:


> *Blaze dude. look in your pm box.*


OK i did. They should have like an alarm or something that goes off. I didn't even know it was thurrrrr.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 7, 2007)

Well I hold the same feelings toward Jesus. He indeed existed according to historical evidence of his existence since we have two accredited historians who wrote about him during his time but I don't think he was who the bible says he was...

I find that spiritual coexistence with a reality that demands more than faith is something that shouldn't be taken lightly. I consider smoking a very spiritual thing. My mind doesn't seem to be limited to what reality says my mind is limited to which allows me to, pardon the gay terminology..., 'think outside the box'. I've never thought of so many theories about my own life and theories of existence until I was first BLITZED out of my mind, literally. Some are conceivable whereas others are the typical stoner philosophy. But either way, while stoned is when I first started questioning what my parents taught me. I started to not take things at just face value. I looked deeper, refused to believe things without evidence, and would question authority. These are things I think everyone should so. But once again; this is all my opinion.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 7, 2007)

rev3la7ion said:


> Well I hold the same feelings toward Jesus. He indeed existed according to historical evidence of his existence since we have two accredited historians who wrote about him during his time but I don't think he was who the bible says he was...
> 
> I find that spiritual coexistence with a reality that demands more than faith is something that shouldn't be taken lightly. I consider smoking a very spiritual thing. My mind doesn't seem to be limited to what reality says my mind is limited to which allows me to, pardon the gay terminology..., 'think outside the box'. I've never thought of so many theories about my own life and theories of existence until I was first BLITZED out of my mind, literally. Some are conceivable whereas others are the typical stoner philosophy. But either way, while stoned is when I first started questioning what my parents taught me. I started to not take things at just face value. I looked deeper, refused to believe things without evidence, and would question authority. These are things I think everyone should so. But one again; this is all my opinion.


Yes, it's always good to question and dig deeper. I guess our pursuit of the truth just leads us in different directions, to each his own. I agree it is hard to believe in what you don't see with little to no evidence. Good post.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 7, 2007)

Thanks man. And it's exactly as you say, "I guess our pursuit of the truth just leads us in different directions, to each his own." Coexistence is always the best solution.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 7, 2007)

Well I guess God is losing tonight. I'm going to bed. See what happens tommorrow. Good night everyone.


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## Lacy (Dec 7, 2007)

*Goodnight Blaze!!!!*

*Its a good topic dude.*


iblazethatkush said:


> Well I guess God is losing tonight. I'm going to bed. See what happens tommorrow. Good night everyone.


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## crazy-mental (Dec 7, 2007)

good nite what time is it in cannada?. its 11.30am where i am.


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## Lacy (Dec 7, 2007)

*Hey crazy! Hows it going? I hope your plants turned out alright for you. Did you transplant to bigger pots???*

*Anyway it is now: 6;40 a.m. and I have a very important appointment this morning and i am not even close to being ready.*

*Wish me luck crazy!!!!*

*Gotta go. Byeeee!*


crazy-mental said:


> good nite what time is it in cannada?. its 11.30am where i am.


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## crazy-mental (Dec 7, 2007)

if there is a god.
well.
he is sure testing us all lately, wars, floods ,childabuse/people traficing, 9/11,Aids,huricanes, the list goes on.
now if somone is supp watching up there. then what the fuck is he/she doing.
taking the fucking piss.
i know we should be tested. but come on, the world is fucked. and as far as im concerend know body is looking over us.
at the rate were all going pollution ecttt. well all be dead. may be thats what god. is trying to do . kill everyone all at once and the everyone can goto a better place.
because its hell on earth, if you know what im saying.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 7, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> Very true mountainSpliff. You don't think he was the son of God, though?


No I dont. I believe that image was created by so called religion to reinforce its credibility. But thats just me. 

Death will be either be the end of everything for me or it will be the beginning of something. I dont think anyone really knows for sure, but then again who knows, maybe they do. Its going to be interesting finding out, thats for sure.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 7, 2007)

What is everybody else afraid to post in this thread? No need to be. As long as you respect everyone else's beliefs, come get some.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 7, 2007)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> Alot of people believe that if you smoke weed, that you dont, but who put weed here, so how can it be wrong, I am not religous, but i am on FIRE FOR CHRIST, but i am not a person who judges, and i feel no one has the right.


Right on puff, I feel the same way. I find weed can bring me closer to God at times.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 7, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> No I dont. I believe that image was created by so called religion to reinforce its credibility. But thats just me.
> 
> Death will be either be the end of everything for me or it will be the beginning of something. I dont think anyone really knows for sure, but then again who knows, maybe they do. Its going to be interesting finding out, thats for sure.


That's cool, a lot of people think that. But, yeah it's definitely going to be interesting to find out what happens when you die. I used to be scared of death now I just think it will be exciting.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 7, 2007)

I got 350 views and only 23 votes? Come on people vote! There's an undecided if you really don't know or can't decide.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 7, 2007)

I believe in God, Jesus, Holy Spirit and Miricles, we have all seen miricles, they give you hope and faith, i wake up every morning to a beautiful sun, who tells the sun to wake up every morning???? I read the Bible and go to Church and get a real dare i say a high, that is like no other when i go to Chuch or read and sometimes especially when i am going thru something, i get a since of complete and utter peace there. I feel really sorry for people that beleve in nothing (and please dont take that in a bad way) But the good thing is... All you need is faith the size of a mustard seed and you are in!!! I know there is a God and he gives us FREE WILL cause he wants us to choose HIM freely and wholeheatedly, I just lost my father Tragicly this Summer (almost 6 month ago) and the only thing that got my family and I though it is Faith and the Love of God. I believe..... i dont know if i am worthy of Heaven, but i sure dont wanna go to hell. I have been thinking about LIFE alot lately and we all HAVE TO GO SOMETIMES, and the best thing i can pray for my brother and sister of Christ is a better relationship with Jesus, cause he is the ONLY way to the Father. That doesnt mean going to Church everyday, or giving $1000's in tides (i do believe in 10%) but its telling him goodmorning, thank you for another day, telling HIM that you need HIM and what you need from HIM, and TRUST me he will fill those needs ALWAY, in HIS time. I am really not trying to preach to anyone, but the best stories in the Bible, the ones that open your eyes are John, Revelatoins (new testament), Genisis(old one) watch The Passion of the Christ get a chance to see Jesus and His wonderful works, kindness, and complete love for us, and celebrate the TRUE meaning of Christmas this year.....

God Bless you all..... and oh yea, i really do believe growing makes you close to God, i have heard that there is a referance to marijuana in the Bible, never read it, but if you know it can i get the chapter and verse???


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 7, 2007)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> God Bless you all..... and oh yea, i really do believe growing makes you close to God, i have heard that there is a referance to marijuana in the Bible, never read it, but if you know it can i get the chapter and verse???


Well first your going to have to find an accurate Bible as most of them have been edited or mistranslated. The old testament refers to cannabis five times, it is known as kaneh Bosm. Most bibles nowadays list this as calamus. 

T[SIZE=-1]HEN THE LORD SAID TO MOSES, "TAKE THE FOLLOWING FINE SPICES: 500 SHEKELS OF LIQUID MYRRH, HALF AS MUCH OF FRAGRANT CINNAMON, 250 SHEKELS OF KANNABOSM, 500 SHEKELS OF CASSIA - ALL ACCORDING TO THE SANCTUARY SHEKEL - AND A HIND OF OLIVE OIL. MAKE THESE INTO MAKE THESE INTO A SACRED ANNOITING OIL, A FRAGRANT BLEND, THE WORK OF A PERFUMER. IT WILL BE THE SACRED ANNOITING OIL.[/SIZE]
T[SIZE=-1]HEN USE IT TO ANOINT THE TENT OF THE MEETING, THE ARK OF THE TESTIMONY, THE TABLE AND ALL ITS ARTICLES, THE LAMPSTAND AND ITS ACCESSORIES, THE ALTAR OF INCENSE, THE ALTAR OF BURNT OFFERING AND ALL ITS UTENSILS, AND THE BASIN WITH ITS STAND. YOU SHALL CONSECRATE THEM SO THEY WILL BE MOST HOLY, AND WHATEVER TOUCHES THEM WILL BE HOLY.[/SIZE]
A[SIZE=-1]NOINT AARON AND HIS SONS AND CONSECRATE THEM SO THEY MAY SERVE ME AS PREISTS. SAY TO THE ISRAELITES, "THIS IS TO BE MY SACRED ANOINTING OIL FOR THE GENERATIONS TO COME. DO NOT POUR IT ON MEN'S BODIES AND DO NOT MAKE ANY OIL WITH THE SAME FORMULA. IT IS SACRED, AND YOU ARE TO CONSIDER IT SACRED. WHOEVER MAKES PERFUME LIKE IT AND WHOEVER PUTS IT ON ANYONE OTHER THAN A PREIST MUST BE CUT OFF FROM HIS PEOPLE."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]EXODUS 30:22-33[/SIZE]

Here's one referring to Cannabis being used in Holy anointing oil.​


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## natrone23 (Dec 7, 2007)

God and Santa Claus is the same guy


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 7, 2007)

natrone23 said:


> God and Santa Claus is the same guy


Haha so I guess that means you don't believe in God?


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 7, 2007)

Childish, but yes since you're a kid who still believes in Santa....


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## nomoretrouble (Dec 7, 2007)

Heres my two cents. I was raised christian and attended a non-denominational church (went to church with jews and christians alike). Since i started using drugs, my ability to swallow organized religion kinda took a turn downhill. I still believe in a higher power than myself, but i dont think theres a grandfather figure with a white beard behind a desk up there. Lately i've been really interested in Taoism, or at least the mysticism involved there. Basically, the universe exists in and is powered by two opposing forces, Yin/Yang (whathaveyou). A main focus of taoism is meditation and increasing your own personal energy, this is honestly fascinating to me because its a thousand year old religion and we're currently scientifically discovering the power of the human will. A good example is mass meditation, if there are many many people meditating towards the same end, there is a measurably change in radiation and things in the air. So recently my passion has been to blaze the trees and find my soul inside me.


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## WillieNelson (Dec 7, 2007)

I belive religion exists to sooth our fears. Anceint people feared lightning, so they created Zeus to calm their fears. As science prevailed, these religions died. Most religions capitilaize on soothing the fears of the unknown. The only things we can't explain are:

Why are we here?
What happens to us when we die?

If people are afraid they will turn to whatever god suits them most.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 7, 2007)

I dont fear death, so no its not fear, its just know and really BELIEVEING for me.....


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## natrone23 (Dec 7, 2007)

When you realize why you don't believe in Zeus, Thor, Mithras, or Vishnu then you will realize why i don't believe in your God.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 7, 2007)

Hey man thats you and yours for that, no need to get all you and your God with me, you dont believe, i do, one of us is right.... Thats cool. "I aint here to turn atheists into believers"....


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## natrone23 (Dec 7, 2007)

oh man no worries 1puff that wasn't directed you personally it is just a general statement to an believer


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## mastakoosh (Dec 7, 2007)

i am glad you guys dont believe in god. the line will be shorter to get in and there will be more weed to smoke haha.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 7, 2007)

Thats funny, it reminds me of a bumper sticker "Try God, the devil will always take you back"... thought it was cute....

Good Smoking and God Bless........


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## mastakoosh (Dec 7, 2007)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> Thats funny, it reminds me of a bumper sticker "Try God, the devil will always take you back"... thought it was cute....
> 
> Good Smoking and God Bless........


 haha i am gonna have to find that sticker.


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## bongspit (Dec 7, 2007)

wow...I just read this thread and I guess the non-believers chose not to chime in...according to poll anyway. I do have one question though, why do "religous people" worry so much about what other people believe or don't believe??


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## mastakoosh (Dec 7, 2007)

bongspit said:


> wow...I just read this thread and I guess the non-believers chose not to chime in...according to poll anyway. I do have one question though, why do "religous people" worry so much about what other people believe or don't believe??


 the answer is yes.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 7, 2007)

I am not really religious per say, i think they are two different things, religion or being religous is "man made". It one thing being a believe and its quite another being religous and judging, scoffing, and thinking you are better than another just cause you go to Church and Read the Bible, that just not what we are here to do. But if you are one of Christ soldiers it is your job to help others find Christ (if they are open, willing and ready) congrigate and fellowship sharing equally yolked beliefs....


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 7, 2007)

bongspit said:


> wow...I just read this thread and I guess the non-believers chose not to chime in...according to poll anyway. I do have one question though, why do "religous people" worry so much about what other people believe or don't believe??


I don't. It just seemed to me stoners were less likely to believe in God, so I wanted to see. According to the polls so far, this is correct. Only about half the people who voted believe in God or a higher power. With the general population that number jumps to 60-70%


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## closet.cult (Dec 7, 2007)

which god? where? not one god has ever shown himself to you or your parents or anyone you know. god is an imaginary friend for adults.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 7, 2007)

Well hay, thats what you believe... you breath air, do you see it? does that make it non-exsitant??? If you are atheist thats you, but dont tell me what to believe and what is real or not, you dont know what i have seen....


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## 0mitt3d (Dec 8, 2007)

I do not believe in god or any form of higher power, but I have many friends who do. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions, therefore I support them. I once had a teacher who stated nearly all wars were fought because of religious reasons. Whether this is true or not I am not sure, but it's just something to think about if you are bored.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 8, 2007)

'religion or being religous is "man made"' by 1puff

Exactly my point. The whole idea of a christian god with heaven and hell is man made.

I welcome anyone to prove this otherwise without quoting the bible.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 8, 2007)

0mitt3d said:


> I do not believe in god or any form of higher power, but I have many friends who do. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions, therefore I support them. I once had a teacher who stated nearly all wars were fought because of religious reasons. Whether this is true or not I am not sure, but it's just something to think about if you are bored.


It's true... sadly...


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 8, 2007)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> Well hay, thats what you believe... you breath air, do you see it? does that make it non-exsitant??? If you are atheist thats you, but dont tell me what to believe and what is real or not, you dont know what i have seen....


No we don't see it but we know it's chemical composition, can feel it, know it sustains life, and has irrefutable evidence of its existence. God, on the other hand, you can't see, hear, taste, touch, or smell. The only reason we supposedly know about God is through the bible...


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 8, 2007)

rev3la7ion said:


> No we don't see it but we know it's chemical composition, can feel it, know it sustains life, and has irrefutable evidence of its existence. God, on the other hand, you can't see, hear, taste, touch, or smell. The only reason we supposedly know about God is through the bible...


 
Beautifully put. Also the bible was written by men and edited countless times to suit what they thought was a correct interpretation of what the other men wrote. 

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 8, 2007)

Anyone here played the game "telephone"?


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 8, 2007)

hahaha I know exactly where this is going. Also, the bible is supposed to be the word of God through man in man's terms. Yet we know apparently from christian teachings that man is not perfect. Now why would God, a perfect being, allow his word to be misconstrued through the writing and teaching of man's, an imperfect being, interpretation of what God wants and teaches? It doesn't make sense. If God wanted his word to be known, shouldn't he have written the bible, such as he did the commandments, and then pass them to man?

This is just my speculation. I don't have anything to back this claim up but I think it poses a good question.


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## bongspit (Dec 8, 2007)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> Well hay, thats what you believe... you breath air, do you see it? does that make it non-exsitant??? If you are atheist thats you, but dont tell me what to believe and what is real or not, you dont know what i have seen....


You said in a previous post that it was a christians job to convert non-christians..right? Have you seen god? If so you should probably go on Oprah or sumpn...


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## abcdthc (Dec 8, 2007)

When I saw "God" on South Park, it made me think deeply about his identity.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 8, 2007)

The funny thing is everyone that is athesis, thinks they can tell me or any believe what true or not.... i dont try to change your mind or belittle your opinion or what you call "fact"..... I simply say I do Believe.... i could care less that you go to hell or not but if ever you wanna stop seeing things in black and white and realize there is a grey area of life, i am Alway open... again, its up to you and no maybe i havent seen God, but i feel Him and to me that is something that surpasses your SO CALLED fact!!!! EVERYTHING IS NOT EXPLAINABLE!!!! Have you ever thought that is was maybe cause you were too closed minded to seek and so you choose nothing, cause that way it makes you unaccountable??? And Rev dont switch my word around and half quote me, i said, i wasnt religous, but i believe in God all the way.... So you have your opion and i have mine you will NEVER change me, and i am not trying to change you. It all comes back to free will, God gave it to us, so we are free to choose and i choose HIM!!!!


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 8, 2007)

No i said non-Christians that want to know about Him... Get it right.... when your are ready to speak like an adult let me know instead of trading insults let me know........






bongspit said:


> You said in a previous post that it was a christians job to convert non-christians..right? Have you seen god? If so you should probably go on Oprah or sumpn...


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## bongspit (Dec 8, 2007)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> No i said non-Christians that want to know about Him... Get it right.... when your are ready to speak like an adult let me know instead of trading insults let me know........


But if you are one of Christ soldiers it is your job to help others find Christ (if they are open, willing and ready) congrigate and fellowship sharing equally yolked beliefs....sorry...I thought this is what you said? dude I am 53 years old and still do not like that whole adult thing, but I am a product of 12 years of catholic school, so I have seen christianity first-hand and I do not like it...


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 8, 2007)

Christianity and Catholic are two quite differnt things.... I dont pray to saints.. I pray to God, and i ask no man for forgivness or to cleanse my sins, Only God can to that....


But hey, Good Smoking and Growing to you.....


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## bongspit (Dec 8, 2007)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> Christianity and Catholic are two quite differnt things.... I dont pray to saints.. I pray to God, and i ask no man for forgivness or to cleanse my sins, Only God can to that....
> 
> 
> But hey, Good Smoking and Growing to you.....


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 8, 2007)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> The funny thing is everyone that is athesis, thinks they can tell me or any believe what true or not.... i dont try to change your mind or belittle your opinion or what you call "fact"..... I simply say I do Believe.... i could care less that you go to hell or not but if ever you wanna stop seeing things in black and white and realize there is a grey area of life, i am Alway open... again, its up to you and no maybe i havent seen God, but i feel Him and to me that is something that surpasses your SO CALLED fact!!!! EVERYTHING IS NOT EXPLAINABLE!!!! Have you ever thought that is was maybe cause you were too closed minded to seek and so you choose nothing, cause that way it makes you unaccountable??? And Rev dont switch my word around and half quote me, i said, i wasnt religous, but i believe in God all the way.... So you have your opion and i have mine you will NEVER change me, and i am not trying to change you. It all comes back to free will, God gave it to us, so we are free to choose and i choose HIM!!!!


Whoa whoa, when did I change your words around? I was simply making a point. I'm not out to convert anyone or try to get christians to stray away from their faith. I'm simply listing the reasons I don't believe in God. If anyone wants me to further explain my reasoning I can do so but I'm not going to convert anyone simply because I feel the need to. I feel that everyone has a right to what they believe and it's not my right to try and force you otherwise. I respect your religion, just not what's done in the name of that religion.

Secondly, I know not everything is explainable. That's why in one of my earlier posts I said I can't explain everything and no one can. Not everything is fact and some things need to be taken on a faith basis (i.e. gravity) but I'm just saying that the facts we have about existence and reason make it almost impossible to consider the possibility of a God a reasonable possibility. I'm not trying to offend anyone and I'm trying to make my point in a neutral way as to not offend anyone and I'm sorry if I do but it's not intentional. 

Also, some things are just black and white whereas somethings involve grey areas. Not everything has a grey area. That's a black and white statement.


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## natrone23 (Dec 8, 2007)

Here is a question to all the believers....and I'll assume your some sort a Christian.......Do you believe that Islam, Buddism, Shintoism, Hinduism, Roman Gods, Greek Gods, Norse Gods, Native American Gods, John Frum, Mayan Gods, Inca Gods, Zoroastrian, Mithras, are Man Made?


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 10, 2007)

Well this thread kinda died... XD


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## mastakoosh (Dec 10, 2007)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> Christianity and Catholic are two quite differnt things.... I dont pray to saints.. I pray to God, and i ask no man for forgivness or to cleanse my sins, Only God can to that....
> 
> 
> But hey, Good Smoking and Growing to you.....


 i wit cha girl. you do what you do if it makes you feel good. i pray to god and wont analyze or feel the need to defend what i feel. other people live their life how they want to and i have no reason to judge anyone. i am a christian but i dont go to church right now. wouldn't mind going again though. and my parents didn't force feed me religion. i felt the need to be this way because of my own feelings. peace to everyone on here.


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## LiveHigh (Dec 10, 2007)

I don't want to delve too deep into this issue, but I can't help but question how anyone remains a member of any religion. It's one thing to believe in a higher power, which I don't. But it seems absurd to me that anyone would believe anything written by people thousands of years ago, about anything as serious as where we came from. Doesn't it seem weird, that just all of the sudden Jesus was born in the midst of civilization. And he died for everyones sins? Oh please, so what about all the sins that people have committed since then? Or are we good for eternity? And if so, does that mean we can live it up? There is probably less than a percent of religious people who actually abide by the book.

anyways, shit...i've already talked too much, sorry


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 10, 2007)

natrone23 said:


> Here is a question to all the believers....and I'll assume your some sort a Christian.......Do you believe that Islam, Buddism, Shintoism, Hinduism, Roman Gods, Greek Gods, Norse Gods, Native American Gods, John Frum, Mayan Gods, Inca Gods, Zoroastrian, Mithras, are Man Made?


 
lol!!!  no seriously, MY religion is the real one!!!


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 10, 2007)

Geez, I should of known this would happen. Why do you guys feel the need to attack other people's beliefs. I just asked what you believe not what you find wrong with Christianity. You don't see me pointing out the holes in the theory of evolution or the big bang theory, which there is plenty, rest assured.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 10, 2007)

Well... Do so. 

Everyone's theory should be up for criticism. That's what leads to truth and general acceptance. I'm not saying belittle the religion, which is what some people are doing -_-, but give constructive criticism that provokes thought, not anger and resentment.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 10, 2007)

natrone23 said:


> Here is a question to all the believers....and I'll assume your some sort a Christian.......Do you believe that Islam, Buddism, Shintoism, Hinduism, Roman Gods, Greek Gods, Norse Gods, Native American Gods, John Frum, Mayan Gods, Inca Gods, Zoroastrian, Mithras, are Man Made?


Ummm what do you believe? The theory of evolution and the big bang theory? Aren't those man made theories And no I don't think Christianity is a man made religion, in the sense that it was made up by man. I think it was created by man with the influence of God. Now quit asking stupid questions.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 10, 2007)

rev3la7ion said:


> Well... Do so.
> 
> Everyone's theory should be up for criticism. That's what leads to truth and general acceptance. I'm not saying belittle the religion, which is what some people are doing -_-, but give constructive criticism that provokes thought, not anger and resentment.


Yes exactly. This was not directed at you, your posts were very intriguing and well-written. I just take issue with the people trying to belittle others views


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 10, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> Ummm what do you believe? The theory of evolution and the big bang theory? Aren't those man made theories And no I don't think Christianity is a man made religion, in the sense that it was made up by man. I think it was created by man with the influence of God. Now quit asking stupid questions.


 
Are you calling him stupid for asking a simple question? I dont see that question as offensive or stupid.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 10, 2007)

WTF We might as well just close this thread if it's going to turn into a drama-fest. No I wasn't calling him stupid. I was calling the question stupid, but hey, that's just my opinion.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 10, 2007)

hahahahahahahaha
Just to clear things up from a neutral point of view, saying a question is stupid shouldn't be a sign that the person asking the question is stupid, only mis-informed. I have to agree, the question was kinda stupid since he was using a man-made theory to try and discredit something that supposedly is a man-made theory... But no offense to the person who asked the question.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 10, 2007)

rev3la7ion said:


> hahahahahahahaha
> Just to clear things up from a neutral point of view, saying a question is stupid shouldn't be a sign that the person asking the question is stupid, only mis-informed. I have to agree, the question was kinda stupid since he was using a man-made theory to try and discredit something that supposedly is a man-made theory... But no offense to the person who asked the question.


 
He didn't use anything to do anything. He simply asked a question. Check the post. He didn't mention any theories.

Or am I missing something?


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 10, 2007)

You were missing something...

He was insinuating that all religions are considered man-made because of how many there are when we consider most of them to be made up or one religion professes that all other religions are made up because they are the true religion. But since he is pointing this out he's in the same boat as he essentially put all religions in since he also made a man-made theory calling every other religion a hoax because they were man-made. 

The whole post was a theory...


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 10, 2007)

Anyway. Being an atheist all my life I dont really have too much knowledge about the various religions. I do however find it very interesting that there are so many completely differant religions that date way further back than any of todays mainstream religions. Also most religions claim that if you follow any other religion you will end up in a bad way. How are spiritual people supposed to know which religion has the 'correct' story? In other words, say I had to now choose a religion. Which one should I choose?

I dont fancy ending up in hell or worse because I was misinformed.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 10, 2007)

rev3la7ion said:


> You were missing something...
> 
> He was insinuating that all religions are considered man-made because of how many there are when we consider most of them to be made up or one religion professes that all other religions are made up because they are the true religion. But since he is pointing this out he's in the same boat as he essentially put all religions in since he also made a man-made theory calling every other religion a hoax because they were man-made.
> 
> The whole post was a theory...


I think you are assuming that he was insinuating. Lets say he wasn't insinuating, what would your answer be?


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 10, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> I think you are assuming that he was insinuating. Lets say he wasn't insinuating, what would your answer be?


He's trying to disprove religion by saying it's man made. That's stupid. What he believes is man made. No matter what you believe it's a man made theory, what's it going to be robot made? Anyways, he doesn't have anything to add to the thread. If you go back and read his first post it's 'God and santa claus are the same guy'. He hasn't contributed anything to the thread. He's just trying to offend others.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 10, 2007)

natrone23 said:


> Here is a question to all the believers....and I'll assume your some sort a Christian.......Do you believe that Islam, Buddism, Shintoism, Hinduism, Roman Gods, Greek Gods, Norse Gods, Native American Gods, John Frum, Mayan Gods, Inca Gods, Zoroastrian, Mithras, are Man Made?


This post basically is making the argument that because a person is christian and believes that all other religions are man made that christianity would essentially have to follow this principle as well or at least that God is more than likely made up due to all the other gods being man-made. This whole post is a theory in a question...


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 10, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> I think you are assuming that he was insinuating. Lets say he wasn't insinuating, what would your answer be?


I'm not assuming he's insinuating because that is the basis of his post. A loaded question.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 10, 2007)

rev3la7ion said:


> I'm not assuming he's insinuating because that is the basis of his post. A loaded question.


 
hahaha

Fair enough. I find all religious opinions loaded. The aim, getting people to believe.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 10, 2007)

Now _that's_ a good point.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 10, 2007)

Well that's not supposed to be the point of this thread. I wouldn't appreciate somebody trying to change my beliefs so I wouldn't do that to others.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 10, 2007)

It's not. It's his opinion. XD


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## natrone23 (Dec 10, 2007)

i don't see how I have offended you with a simple question, I asked your opinion on whether you think those other religions were man made? I have an opinion I was just wondering what your opinion was.


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## natrone23 (Dec 10, 2007)

REV _He was insinuating that all religions are considered man-made because of how many there are when we consider most of them to be made up or one religion professes that all other religions are made up because they are the true religion. But since he is pointing this out he's in the same boat as he essentially put all religions in since he also made a man-made theory calling every other religion a hoax because they were man-made. 

The whole post was a theory...

_I really didn't understand your last sentence could you clarify what you mean?


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm saying that since you were pointing out that every religion is man-made you're sticking essentially every religion in the same boat (i.e. every religion believes they are the one true religion with it's own god since they all come from man) but you didn't exactly realize that by making _this_ theory about other religions, or insinuating it at least, that you yourself are in the same boat as your theory since it's a man-made theory.


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## natmoon (Dec 10, 2007)

I believe in a higher power.
For any man to claim that he knows the thoughts and wishes of an omnipotent omni dimensional universe creating all knowing and powerful god is pure insanity.
As to thinking that this being if he existed would even have enough time or interest to bother with us is another matter all together


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 10, 2007)

natmoon said:


> I believe in a higher power.
> For any man to claim that he knows the thoughts and wishes of an omnipotent omni dimensional universe creating all knowing and powerful god is pure insanity.
> As to thinking that this being if he existed would even have enough time or interest to bother with us is another matter all together


Exactly!!


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 10, 2007)

natmoon said:


> I believe in a higher power.
> For any man to claim that he knows the thoughts and wishes of an omnipotent omni dimensional universe creating all knowing and powerful god is pure insanity.
> As to thinking that this being if he existed would even have enough time or interest to bother with us is another matter all together


So essentially you're saying the bible is a load of crap considering it is supposedly gods word through man?


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 10, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> Well that's not supposed to be the point of this thread. I wouldn't appreciate somebody trying to change my beliefs so I wouldn't do that to others.


Just because you are a religious person doesn't mean that you are a bad person.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 10, 2007)

rev3la7ion said:


> So essentially you're saying the bible is a load of crap considering it is supposedly gods word through man?


 
The Bible isn't the most popular book in the world for nothing. It's full of good stuff.


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## thegtiguy (Dec 10, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> The Bible isn't the most popular book in the world for nothing. It's full of good stuff.


Like stories, and stuff...


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 10, 2007)

Well it does profess love, peace, acceptance all while practicing genocide, murder, and torture. XD


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 10, 2007)

rev3la7ion said:


> Well it does profess love, peace, acceptance all while practicing genocide, murder, and torture. XD


 
All the things we value most as human beings.

What a wonderful species we are.


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## natmoon (Dec 10, 2007)

I am saying that all we really need to do to know the difference is look inside ourselves.
We do not need a book to tell us what is right or wrong we know that already and we just make good or bad choices for reasons that are either selfish or unselfish,its really just that simple in my opinion


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## natrone23 (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm saying that since you were pointing out that every religion is man-made you're sticking essentially every religion in the same boat (i.e. every religion believes they are the one true religion with it's own god since they all come from man) but you didn't exactly realize that by making _this_ theory about other religions, or insinuating it at least, that you yourself are in the same boat as your theory since it's a man-made theory.

Of course my theory is man made, my point was not to say that because something is a man made theory that it makes it automatically false. *Religions don't claim to be man made*, and if they do, that kinda ruins the whole point


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## LiveHigh (Dec 10, 2007)

I don't understand what would lead anyone to believe there is a higher power out there. The complexity of our world? Whose to say it's complex? It's only what we know. The fact that millions of people believe in various religions? To me it seems obvious that humans have evolved, and at various points in civilization, when living in far more drastic conditions than we live today, people had to make some sense of it. They had to have hope. It would be hard to have hope when you lived in a barbaric world full of unforgiveness. But, that is where religion came in.

The longer time drags on, the more scientific research is done. The more scientific research is done, the more ridiculous religion sounds. Do you realize that within 25 years no one will be dying? How will you explain that to God? "Can't judge this biatch! I'm never going to die!"

It seems to me that the only semi-logical thing you can do is believe in a higher power. And that is simply because it's impossible to disprove it at this stage. But to me, you'd have to be playing the devil's advocate (so to speak) to take that stand. Because with as much disease and bullshit that goes on in our world, it would seem pretty ludicrous to find out that there was some 'omnipotent' being behind all of it. Oh, and why do people always claim God to be 'omnipotent'? Well, because that's the only thing that makes even the slighest bit of sense. It's like you have to dig into our dictionary to find a word that God could possible be. Because obviously he's not a normal human being, or anything like that. He can't be. He must be some crazy omnipotent being that no matter what anyone says to me about him, I can reject and attribute it to his omnipotence. Hah.

LH


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## m3atwad (Dec 10, 2007)

despite what you may believe in 25 years we will still be dying...
and god is real because I AM GOD BWAHAHAHA
jk yeah its all bullshit
if people didnt believe in a higher power thats gonna judge you some day then what would stop everyone from running around killing people.
+clear evidence of evolution disproves catholism which is like the majority of the population so youve all been duped by a bunch of thousand year old books
hahahhah
we are just a form of energy. we evolved over billions of years from little bateria shit and thats all.
no higher power no gods nothing
we live we die thats it


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## m3atwad (Dec 10, 2007)

oh yeah and we smoke weed =)


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 10, 2007)

You wont end up in hell cause you are mis informed you will end up in hell, cause you didnt choose the REAL GOD or ANYTHING in your case, i am sure God has opened up to many of you countless times, but because you are devout about your beliefs, you stay close minded. Like i said before ignorance wont save you, you must take responsibility and be accountable for your choices, cause on judgement day you cant say "Oh, you are real, i'm sorry i doubted, disrespected, poked fun of, and plain out denied you *(But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. (KJV)),* can i get in"? If you believe what you believe, the question is "are you willing to die and go to hell for your beliefs too. Cause at the end of the day, if i am wrong, Well..... nothing, but if you are wrong............ May God have Mercy on your soul...

And oh yea, my God, the one and only is, omnipotent, omni, dimensional, universe creating, all knowing, powerful and alot more!!!



mountainSpliff said:


> Anyway. Being an atheist all my life I dont really have too much knowledge about the various religions. I do however find it very interesting that there are so many completely differant religions that date way further back than any of todays mainstream religions. Also most religions claim that if you follow any other religion you will end up in a bad way. How are spiritual people supposed to know which religion has the 'correct' story? In other words, say I had to now choose a religion. Which one should I choose?
> 
> I dont fancy ending up in hell or worse because I was misinformed.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 10, 2007)

I agree with you 1puff but that's a bit harsh. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." There are some groups of Christians who believe that everybody gets into heaven and that the bible is just a guide to how to live our lives on earth. But, at the end of the day everyone gets into heaven and that it doesn't say this in the bible because it would encourage ppl to sin. I found this idea interesting and would like to think it is true.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 10, 2007)

I applogize, i have no intent on being harsh (just telling the truth), just with all the previous post, its kind of upsetting.... but i am calm now and have smoked....


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## LiveHigh (Dec 10, 2007)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> You wont end up in hell cause you are mis informed you will end up in hell, cause you didnt choose the REAL GOD or ANYTHING in your case, i am sure God has opened up to many of you countless times, but because you are devout about your beliefs, you stay close minded. Like i said before ignorance wont save you, you must take responsibility and be accountable for your choices, cause on judgement day you cant say "Oh, you are real, i'm sorry i doubted, disrespected, poked fun of, and plain out denied you *(But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. (KJV)),* can i get in"? If you believe what you believe, the question is "are you willing to die and go to hell for your beliefs too. Cause at the end of the day, if i am wrong, Well..... nothing, but if you are wrong............ May God have Mercy on your soul...
> 
> And oh yea, my God, the one and only is, omnipotent, omni, dimensional, universe creating, all knowing, powerful and alot more!!!


 
Well, while it may seem like "If I am wrong, well nothing" to you but to me it seems like a big deal to me to go through your entire life as a fool believing in something ridiculous. How much of the bible do you have to ignore because of its inappropriateness before you realize its all false? How many different religions do you have to see before you realize its human nature that brought them about in troubleing times. How many hours would you have wasted at a church, or even thinking about your faith, that you could have better spent living up life?

I wouldn't care if the entire world believed in a higher power, so long as they don't create any ridiculous religions claiming to know what's going on. It's religions that are corrupt, and have caused a great deal of suffering in our history. Take a look at 9/11.

Oh, and one last thing. If you honestly believe in all the heaven/hell crap, and don't think 99% of the population would be condemned to hell based on sinning. You're seriously delusional.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 10, 2007)

LiveHigh said:


> Well, while it may seem like "If I am wrong, well nothing" to you but to me it seems like a big deal to me to go through your entire life as a fool believing in something ridiculous. How much of the bible do you have to ignore because of its inappropriateness before you realize its all false? How many different religions do you have to see before you realize its human nature that brought them about in troubleing times. How many hours would you have wasted at a church, or even thinking about your faith, that you could have better spent living up life?
> 
> I wouldn't care if the entire world believed in a higher power, so long as they don't create any ridiculous religions claiming to know what's going on. It's religions that are corrupt, and have caused a great deal of suffering in our history. Take a look at 9/11.
> 
> Oh, and one last thing. If you honestly believe in all the heaven/hell crap, and don't think 99% of the population would be condemned to hell based on sinning. You're seriously delusional.


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## natrone23 (Dec 10, 2007)

Oh yeah.....Oh yeah....well my God can beat up your God.......................................its a joke relax


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## natrone23 (Dec 10, 2007)

You wont end up in hell cause you are mis informed you will end up in hell, cause you didnt choose the REAL GOD or ANYTHING in your case, i am sure God has opened up to many of you countless times, but because you are devout about your beliefs, you stay close minded. Like i said before ignorance wont save you, you must take responsibility and be accountable for your choices, cause on judgement day you cant say "Oh, you are real, i'm sorry i doubted, disrespected, poked fun of, and plain out denied you *(But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. (KJV)),* can i get in"? If you believe what you believe, the question is "are you willing to die and go to hell for your beliefs too. Cause at the end of the day, if i am wrong, Well..... nothing, but if you are wrong............ May God have Mercy on your soul...

And oh yea, my God, the one and only is, omnipotent, omni, dimensional, universe creating, all knowing, powerful and alot more!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by *mountainSpliff*  
_Anyway. Being an atheist all my life I dont really have too much knowledge about the various religions. I do however find it very interesting that there are so many completely differant religions that date way further back than any of todays mainstream religions. Also most religions claim that if you follow any other religion you will end up in a bad way. How are spiritual people supposed to know which religion has the 'correct' story? In other words, say I had to now choose a religion. Which one should I choose?

I dont fancy ending up in hell or worse because I was misinformed.

*Why would you go off on mountainspliff like that? His question was if he has to choose a religion how does he know which one is the true or real god.......They all claim to be the one true religion and have miracles and profess Gods spoken word through Prophets and holy books to back up their claims...I think you misinterpreted his post*
_


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## dalgoda (Dec 10, 2007)

Religion is for the weak minded individual.
God on a reality scale would be absolute positive polarity whereas Devil would be absolute Negative polarity therefore we cannot exist without the two. sure it is good to be good but remember without evil good has no job.
To not believe in god immediately tells you that you also dont believe in the devil cause the two are from the same story. so you cannot believe in the devil without admitting to believing in god.
therefore to relieve yourself in that thought frees up so much wasted energy in your daily life to live healthier in that.
in fact, Swear to nothing means just that. were not getting out alive so what good does it do to think about it just follow the do unto others thing as it is in any religion to do good cause we are all from the same. We are all that person inside that fire cannot touch and arrows cannot penetrate. we should be more that person and let go of our ego's.
peace 
Im out..........

P.S> Atheism is just a label that the religions give you. Labels are all man made so I call it Spiritual......Thank You.


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## mastakoosh (Dec 10, 2007)

jesus loves me yes i know....


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 10, 2007)

Come on, I see you guys taking shots at God but offer no alternative solutions. What do you guys believe, the big bang theory? That's so nonsensical and flawed that I find it funny you question the intelligence of believers. The big bang theory states that time and space did not come into existence until the big bang happened. That is a contradiction in of itself. And where did the material involved in the big bang come from? Did it just appear out of thin air?
So that's what atheists believe. God is the abosule only thing that can explain the creation of our universe and planet.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 11, 2007)

Well actually the big bang theory has been proven. We know through scientific evidence that the universe is constantly expanding in a spherical manner. Therefore it had to have had a starting point based on simple logic (i.e. if something is expanding then it had to have had a starting point for it to have expanded). Even christians believe this now. The only difference is that they believe god created the original point of energy that caused the big bang. Anyways, now we know that because of the imbalance of neutrino's and it's anti-matter counterpart, that were in the big bang, created matter itself otherwise the universe would have collapsed back on itself due to anti-matter. So essentially, it was an imperfection that created our 'perfect' universe that supposedly God created. That's what is now understood and essentially proven now.

Either way we still don't know how the original point of energy got there but to make the assumption that the only feasible explanation is a God is just absurd. That's taking something we don't understand and doing the same thing people thousands of years ago did to explain things they don't understand. Take lightening for example; we didn't know what caused thunder up until a couple hundred years ago. In ancient greece, lightening was explained as the wrath of Zeus being cast down on earth. We all know that this isn't true because we now have scientific evidence of how lightening works therefore the theory of a God hurtling lightening bolts down to earth is no longer accepted. Soon it will be the same with the christian God based on scientific evidence.

Huzzah for String Theory. It's probably the closest thing we have to absolute proof than anything...


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 11, 2007)

I like the big bang theory and I reckon it is just one of countless big bangs in a space unimaginably bigger than any human will ever be able to comprehend and even then, that is probably only a drop in the ocean of whats really going on.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 11, 2007)

Well, it may have actually happened. But, it is not proven. That's why it's still a theory. Scientists still have no way of explaining atoms appearing out of thin air.


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## suicidesamurai (Dec 11, 2007)

I do not believe in a higher power because there is no reason to believe that, and because I see the scientific theories on the origins of the universe and life on earth as a thorough enough explanation to not warrant belief in some outside force.


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## Tanuvan (Dec 11, 2007)

I gravitate more towards the eastern religions (Buddhism) personally such that there are far more things we can do to improve ourselves before questioning the origins of the universe. 

I don't think science will have that big of an impact on religion insofar as someone could always maintain that God creates the science. I do however believe that archaeology could pose the most serious problems with what some religious texts postulate as fact and the actual evidence being found.

I won't go into details because this isn't really the point, but there are several things being uncovered that contradict a lot of commonly held beliefs. In spite of this, people will naturally believe what they have always been inclined to believe or have been taught.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 11, 2007)

Tanuvan said:


> I gravitate more towards the eastern religions (Buddhism) personally such that there are far more things we can do to improve ourselves before questioning the origins of the universe.
> 
> I don't think science will have that big of an impact on religion insofar as someone could always maintain that God creates the science. I do however believe that archaeology could pose the most serious problems with what some religious texts postulate as fact and the actual evidence being found.
> 
> I won't go into details because this isn't really the point, but there are several things being uncovered that contradict a lot of commonly held beliefs. In spite of this, people will naturally believe what they have always been inclined to believe or have been taught.


 
Yes, people do as they are told because they live in fear. 
"Fear of what?" you ask. I say fear of the unknown. 
What is the biggest mystery known to man? 

Life.


I thought that movie 'The meaning of life by monty python' explained things pretty well actually.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 11, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> Well, it may have actually happened. But, it is not proven. That's why it's still a theory. Scientists still have no way of explaining atoms appearing out of thin air.


They can't explain where the energy came from but it's not a theory anymore. It's literally just the big bang. No more theory. It happened. XD

When the big bang was a theory it didn't explain where the energy came from, just that it was there and exploded to form the universe. Now it's scientifically proven that this happened.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 11, 2007)

rev3la7ion said:


> Now it's scientifically proven that this happened.


Can you provide a link or something for this. I gotta see this.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 11, 2007)

Creation of a Cosmology: Big Bang Theory
NPR : Big-Bang Detective Work Wins Physics Nobel
Nobel Prize-winning physicist who proved science of &#8220;Big Bang&#8221; theory to deliver Matthew Vassar Lecture. Monday, October 29, 2007 :: Vassar College News and Announcements


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 11, 2007)

In theory, it is still just a theory and its all just something you read somewhere, however complicated it might be. lol


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## natmoon (Dec 11, 2007)

Who made,who made the big bang and who were his/her parents and who made them?
Just on a side note the universe and life itself is impossible so in all reality we may not even be here.


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## Wigmo (Dec 11, 2007)

33.33 believers


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## m3atwad (Dec 11, 2007)

according to catholism everyone is born with original sin so arent you all damned to hell anyway?


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## m3atwad (Dec 11, 2007)

and yeah it is a theory- the big bang
which also sounds like a load of horse shit to me.
cause where did that small bit of matter come from to start with?
how did the material that they say exploded get there?
and since when does something grow after being blown up. last time i checked when you blow something up it breaks into millions of smaller pieces, not billions of much much much larger ones.


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## tckfui (Dec 11, 2007)

of course I believe in god, I hang out with him every weekend

big bang... hm. how indeed, and howcome everytime we smash or blow up atooms we dont creat new universes? or blow up or own?


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## m3atwad (Dec 11, 2007)

big bang = almost as much bull as god


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## LiveHigh (Dec 11, 2007)

Spending your time trying to figure out how it all started is a waste. Unless you're a scientist with the necessary knowledge to investigate the next piece of the puzzle.

There is no reason why you would have to believe in the big bang (not that I'm disproving it, I haven't read enough about it yet, nor care to) if you don't believe in God.

All I know for certain is that religion is utter horseshit that has done way more harm than good to this world. How it all started, I don't know. But I guarantee you Jesus didn't know what the fuck DNA was, and he'd be laughed at today.

Give science time and everything is broken down into simple logic. One logical sequence after another. Don't waste your time trying to understand it now, you'll just seem stupid.


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## crazy-mental (Dec 11, 2007)

who made who. the chicken and egg.theory.
i believe that we all evolved in a big soup, and grew on from there.
gods were made for us to belive in somthing. suposed, to be good. so we all walk the line, or else, hell.not heaven. 
im catholic, and i dont understand. if theres a hell. 
how come everytime, we do anything wrong, in gods eyes, 
we get ,not punishment/hell. with 10 hail marys. 
i dont understand. 
will someone tell me.


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## m3atwad (Dec 11, 2007)

LiveHigh said:


> Well, while it may seem like "If I am wrong, well nothing" to you but to me it seems like a big deal to me to go through your entire life as a fool believing in something ridiculous. How much of the bible do you have to ignore because of its inappropriateness before you realize its all false? How many different religions do you have to see before you realize its human nature that brought them about in troubleing times. How many hours would you have wasted at a church, or even thinking about your faith, that you could have better spent living up life?
> 
> I wouldn't care if the entire world believed in a higher power, so long as they don't create any ridiculous religions claiming to know what's going on. It's religions that are corrupt, and have caused a great deal of suffering in our history. Take a look at 9/11.
> 
> Oh, and one last thing. If you honestly believe in all the heaven/hell crap, and don't think 99% of the population would be condemned to hell based on sinning. You're seriously delusional.


Amen LiveHigh


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 11, 2007)

crazy-mental said:


> who made who. the chicken and egg.theory.
> i believe that we all evolved in a big soup, and grew on from there.
> gods were made for us to belive in somthing. suposed, to be good. so we all walk the line, or else, hell.not heaven.
> im catholic, and i dont understand. if theres a hell.
> ...


If you read some of my earlier posts you would know I think the Catholic church is evil. It is their job to lead you away from God. Read the bible, do what it says to do, not the Catholic church. Hail marys are a sin. "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." -Matthew 6:7


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## tckfui (Dec 11, 2007)

whats vein and repetitive in the hail mary prayer?


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 11, 2007)

tckfui said:


> whats vein and repetitive in the hail mary prayer?


 I don't even know how it goes. All I know is that the Bible implicitly states that when you pray, you should talk to God from your heart, not repeat some stupid sayings you heard. I don't know if it's repetitive but it's definitely vein. Maybe I was thinking of rosarys as being repetitive.
It also states in the bible that praying to saints and mother Mary is a sin.


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## m3atwad (Dec 11, 2007)

and why should the world live by the rules of matthew. the bible was written by humans.
not "god"
its not "gods" word its matthews. i dont give a fuck about how matthew wants everyone to live there lives. live you life your own way. you dont need to listen to a bunch of thousands year old dead people.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 11, 2007)

You don't have to take Matthews' word for it. Take Jesus' word for it, he is the son of God


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## closet.cult (Dec 11, 2007)

in very early times, when the first humans were becoming social and civilized, some of the craftiest among them realized early on that people could be minipulated. everyone has a talent, you know. some people are born leaders and polititions.

it was these men that usurped man's natural inclination to wonder and speculate on the unknown and supernatural. and they exploited it with an organized religion that taught men the virtues of conformity and reliance on belief systems for savior.

everything in this universe evolves. and those belief systems which were better able to adapt survived and were more popular. We still have many today. Christianity was great spin on the old Sun worshiping religions. And it has lasted 2,000 in this form.

The control over humans is the reason religion was seized upon and implimented by the ruling elite of almost every nation of history, barring a few recent ones. And there are still myths that the original 12 families of those early manipulating rulers of humans still exist and operate behind the scenes in positions of power over men. why not? they were, of old, the richest, most powerful men alive. when they live and then die, their _money_, _power_, _influence_ and _knowledge_ is passed on to their heirs.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 11, 2007)

I suggest you all read the links I posted instead of debunking the big bang theory without even giving evidence as to why it didn't happen.

I'll tell you how we know it happened in basic terms:

The universe we now know through scientific evidence states that our universe is consistently expanding in all directions. Think of it like a balloon (except it never pops). It's continuously expanding which means it had to have started out really small in order to have expanded to its size right now. Think about it, since the universe is constantly expanding, a few moments ago it was smaller than it is now. Keep taking that back and back and back and it will have had to have been the size of, well, the point of a pencil or even smaller. We know the big bang happened, it just might now be how it's described in the theory. But we know it actually happened... If you still don't believe it then you're basically denying reality and scientific evidence...


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## natmoon (Dec 11, 2007)

Who,how,why and where did the big bang come from and where did the ingredients come from in the first place and how can something come from ABSOLUTELY nothing and if something did come from nothing who made it come in the first place and who made them and why?

Even if you could answer the aforementioned questions you would never be able to know what/who came first because your brain cannot compute this,it is beyond any mans capacity even if it were told to you,you could not retain such a revelation or amount of complex information.

I can tell you this much as it is all i know for sure the universe in itself is impossible.
The only real question and answer is,
What is it?
The only real answer for us at the moment is,
It just is.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 12, 2007)

I never said I can explain where the energy first came from but we know that the event of point expanding into our universe did happen. We now know that because of the imbalance of Neutrino's from the big bang caused the universe we know today. Otherwise the equal amounts of matter and anti-matter would once again negate each other and destroy the universe before it ever formed to where it is now... Imperfection created what the bible describes as perfection.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 12, 2007)

closet.cult said:


> in very early times, when the first humans were becoming social and civilized, some of the craftiest among them realized early on that people could be minipulated. everyone has a talent, you know. some people are born leaders and polititions.
> 
> it was these men that usurped man's natural inclination to wonder and speculate on the unknown and supernatural. and they exploited it with an organized religion that taught men the virtues of conformity and reliance on belief systems for savior.
> 
> ...


That is my personal favourite theory. It definately seems to be the most logical one. Humans love to control each other. Especially crafty humans.

And christianity is a fairly new religion but extremely successful.
It seems that religion is starting to take a back seat in the world these days. If we had this disscussion 50 years ago it would have been very taboo.'
Now days no one seems to give a shit.


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## bobharvey (Dec 12, 2007)

I am a christian but I don't go to church. I don't have to go to believe. The Bible is only made up of books that certain people want us to read. More people wrote about Jesus and there are other types of Christianity that don't follow the Catholic or the protestant faiths. from jesus to christ: the story of the storytellers: the gospel of thomas Some books are probably dry rotted in desert caves and we'll never know what they said about Jesus.


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## Lacy (Dec 12, 2007)

_Well written Closet. _
_At first I was surprised that the percentage was so low in those who believe in God or a higher power. It most certainly is outside of the weed smoking population but I'm not sure why._
_What does still amaze me is that so many people can argue over the topic about God. So many wars have been started and STILL continue today. I also believe religion first started as a means to control people and for some, this may still hold true. _
_To shatter one's very core beliefs about God is very threatening to many people and I think is the main reason why people fight to PROVE their beliefs. _
_It does seem ironic that the very people who feel so strongly about their religion, are often than not, the ones that will FIGHT their point._


closet.cult said:


> in very early times, when the first humans were becoming social and civilized, some of the craftiest among them realized early on that people could be minipulated. everyone has a talent, you know. some people are born leaders and polititions.
> 
> it was these men that usurped man's natural inclination to wonder and speculate on the unknown and supernatural. and they exploited it with an organized religion that taught men the virtues of conformity and reliance on belief systems for savior.
> 
> ...


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## Lacy (Dec 12, 2007)

_And it wasn't a slam against religion or any type of religion. Just an observation. I'm all for whatever makes you a better person.  And I believe in GOD with every cell of my being. _



Lacy said:


> _Well written Closet. _
> _At first I was surprised that the percentage was so low in those who believe in God or a higher power. It most certainly is outside of the weed smoking population but I'm not sure why._
> _What does still amaze me is that so many people can argue over the topic about God. So many wars have been started and STILL continue today. I also believe religion first started as a means to control people and for some, this may still hold true. _
> _To shatter one's very core beliefs about God is very threatening to many people and I think is the main reason why people fight to PROVE their beliefs. _
> _It does seem ironic that the very people who feel so strongly about their religion, are often than not, the ones that will FIGHT their point._


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## crazy-mental (Dec 12, 2007)

well said lacy. thats what i think. religion was started to tell/control people.
if you dont live in a certain way, then you dont goto a better place.
like i said b4. if there was a god, why is the world like it is?.
heaven and hell. this world is hell enuf, for lots of people, i dont understand.
or is this world/life a big fucking test?.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 12, 2007)

If god is the all powerful being, why did he create physical laws like negativity and positivity? Why put us through a test if he could just create us the way he wanted us? Its also a bit strange that god is a masculine entity. Why would god need to have sexual orientation? Is it so he can bang a goddess? Now that would be a BIG BANG. If god had sexual orientation it would mean he had/has parents. In turn implying that there are many gods. If there are many gods why does only one get worshipped?

There is too much undeniable uncertainty to devote too much time to any of the aforementioned theories in this thread. Mankind should be trying to figure out life constructively instead of worrying about what their ancestors thought was right or wrong. People need to think for themselves and move forward. This is happening already all over the world thanks to things like the internet, where we can all come together and debate without fear of being nailed to a cross or burnt alive.

Religion is old fashioned at the moment, but as long as we have uncertainty, it will continue. &#8734;


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## natmoon (Dec 12, 2007)

I do believe in a higher power but i prefer to think that it has no blatant involvement in our lives unless we invite it in.

Whether or not the higher power is actually the God of everything that exists is beyond me but i do pray to myself and i do believe that there are guardian spirits and helpers etc. and these could be angels of sorts.

I think the real give away that a lot of the bible is bullshit is the fact that even us pathetic greedy and evil humans don't burn our criminals alive for all eternity as that would be inhuman cruelty.

So to assume that God the all powerful and kind and good is an inhuman torturer is quite obviously wrong and nothing but a control mech for clever men to control dumb men.

I believe in my God


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 12, 2007)

natmoon said:


> I do believe in a higher power but i prefer to think that it has no blatant involvement in our lives unless we invite it in.
> 
> Whether or not the higher power is actually the God of everything that exists is beyond me but i do pray to myself and i do believe that there are guardian spirits and helpers etc. and these could be angels of sorts.
> 
> ...


 
hahahahaaa 

DAMN you're good!!


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## bwinn27 (Dec 12, 2007)

i beleave earth is my god it is the reason we are alive it gives as everything we need to live not god earth. and if there is only 1 god how could the romans and greeks be so powerful? they had 1000s of gods? nero used to feed christins to lions for fun. i beleave god started because people dident know why things happend like rain or thunder. i beleave it was allso a way for kings to controll people makeing them beleave if you die for me there will be something so great wateing for you. but it all comes down money and power just a throught my throught and if god makes your life better then good for you


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## natmoon (Dec 12, 2007)

Jesus was a stoner i reckon and as far as i know the only things that he ever _really_ said that were written in Aramaic were never put into the bible at all and when they discovered them the catholic church and Rome made sure that they never got added into the bible and then they discredited them and classed the writings as blasphemy


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## bwinn27 (Dec 12, 2007)

people change things to fit there needs thats what i have been trying to say. useing god as a way to justify what thay are doing


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## bwinn27 (Dec 12, 2007)

if there was a Jesus why is he in no roman books or acounts. everything or almost everthing the romans have said or done we have found they where good at keeping records.


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## bwinn27 (Dec 12, 2007)

people beleave in god because its what you are rased to beleave if you where born 2000 years ago do you still think you would beleave in god i beet you would be pagen like everyone else back.


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## natmoon (Dec 12, 2007)

There was a Jesus,as to the rest of the bible i have no clue as to its level of truth,but there definitely was a Jesus


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## tckfui (Dec 12, 2007)

there was... but who was he. nobody knows.
I dont understand why the bible isnt considerd the first fiction book... it really should be... even if there is a god, if he can do the stuff that he does in the bible... than... he should be able to creat better things than smeely buttholes for people to get rid of their poopies


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## Lacy (Dec 12, 2007)

_But I do believe in God. Most certainly 100 % but not in a religious sense because it is something that's man made and unfortunately as humans we don't have the capabilty to perceive something objectively since we have egos._

_When we die or leave our physical bodies, we loose our ego and see the entire picture._

_We all have choices and the world is the way it is because of these choices we have all made consciously or unconsciously._

_God, devine power, higher intelligience is not man made._
_This ever-present source of energy allows us 'free will.' _
_We all use our freewill and since most of us use it to our own advantage, thats why I believe the world is the way it is._

_Just my 2 cents_


crazy-mental said:


> well said lacy. thats what i think. religion was started to tell/control people.
> if you dont live in a certain way, then you dont goto a better place.
> like i said b4. if there was a god, why is the world like it is?.
> heaven and hell. this world is hell enuf, for lots of people, i dont understand.
> or is this world/life a big fucking test?.


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## closet.cult (Dec 12, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> If god is the all powerful being, why did he create physical laws like negativity and positivity? Why put us through a test if he could just create us the way he wanted us? Its also a bit strange that god is a masculine entity. Why would god need to have sexual orientation? Is it so he can bang a goddess? Now that would be a BIG BANG. If god had sexual orientation it would mean he had/has parents. In turn implying that there are many gods. If there are many gods why does only one get worshipped?
> 
> There is too much undeniable uncertainty to devote too much time to any of the aforementioned theories in this thread. Mankind should be trying to figure out life constructively instead of worrying about what their ancestors thought was right or wrong. People need to think for themselves and move forward. This is happening already all over the world thanks to things like the internet, where we can all come together and debate without fear of being nailed to a cross or burnt alive.
> 
> Religion is old fashioned at the moment, but as long as we have uncertainty, it will continue. &#8734;


i use these and the many, many, many inherent contradictions of the 'god hypothesis' to reason him out of the equation of daily life.

religious leaders tell us: 'our minds are too small to understand god."

the truth is: their stories don't make sense, because there is absolutely no proof of theirs, or anyone else's god. 

so to every and any one: quit trying to tell me you know who god is when he never spoken or revealed himself to you or anyone you know. and if you wish to call an old book evidence, you'll have to first find a way to prove one old books superiority over another.

i am agnostic. because their is NO proof of any invisible god, sprits, angels or demons. None, Zero, Zip. But I leave room for the unknown. athiesm takes too much faith in our reasoning abilities and/or imagination. with god, there is no proof of his existance or non-existance.


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## closet.cult (Dec 12, 2007)

Lacy said:


> _But I do believe in God. Most certainly 100 % but not in a religious sense because it is something that's man made and unfortunately as humans we don't have the capabilty to perceive something objectively since we have egos._
> 
> _When we die or leave our physical bodies, we loose our ego and see the entire picture._
> 
> ...


you know i love you lacy and appreciate your 2 cents. i just want to point out that everything you said there was complete conjecture. no one has proof of god. no one has proof of an afterlife where we all learn the big picture.

sucks but i think those are all just wishes of people because we hate to admit that we live a few years and then die for eternity, just like any other plant, animal or organism in the circle of life. its a nice dream though.

einstein said he believed in an afterlife because matter doesn't die. it changes back into energy which, in turn, produces matter later on. that is the only type of afterlife there is. the particles that make up our bodies will be part of the universe again one day. maybe even part of another intelligent being. i peronally find that infinitly more satifying then an infantile god person that punishes people for doing what he made them capable of doing in the first place.-the biggest contradiction, in my mind.


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## donnieosmond (Dec 12, 2007)

closet cult don't you ever get tired of being so cynical of everything that happens in this world? I don't need proof to know God exists and that's completely ok to me that you don't believe in him. You probably also think that everything in the bible should be taken literally. Most of them are allegories denoting how people should try and live their lives. There isn't one person in this world that knows what every story in the bible truly means because they aren't meant to be understood fully. If you want to believe that when you close your eyes for the final time there is nothing but blackness and eternal dark then go ahead. I on the other hand, will look forward to an afterlife with a smile on my face until I die. And if there's nothing after I die, I won't be disappointed because I'll already be dead.


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## crazy-mental (Dec 12, 2007)

Lacy said:


> _But I do believe in God. Most certainly 100 % but not in a religious sense because it is something that's man made and unfortunately as humans we don't have the capabilty to perceive something objectively since we have egos._
> 
> _When we die or leave our physical bodies, we loose our ego and see the entire picture._
> 
> ...


well. when im ever in bad trouble. 
i must admit, i ask god, for help. everytime. but he never helps
i think the same religion/cult what ever all use false gods, to help there cause, and weather its the catholics church, who own millions of propties and all the vatican city. and much much more. the church were a friend of my wifes, goes to a church. and the church takes 10/20 out of his wage, thats a christian, church. that would be just from him £400 a month or $800. and 1000S go. imagen how much these places make.


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## closet.cult (Dec 12, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> closet cult don't you ever get tired of being so cynical of everything that happens in this world? I don't need proof to know God exists and that's completely ok to me that you don't believe in him. You probably also think that everything in the bible should be taken literally. Most of them are allegories denoting how people should try and live their lives. There isn't one person in this world that knows what every story in the bible truly means because they aren't meant to be understood fully. If you want to believe that when you close your eyes for the final time there is nothing but blackness and eternal dark then go ahead. I on the other hand, will look forward to an afterlife with a smile on my face until I die. And if there's nothing after I die, I won't be disappointed because I'll already be dead.


i dont mind you believing what makes sense or brings you comfort. i have a problem with people pushing beliefs on others or writing national laws based on religious beliefs.

but i'm not cynical. no way. i am skeptical of false promises and exagerated claims of special knowledge when not one religious personal can provide a shred of evidence for what they believe. that's all.

just my 2 cents, you know.


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## donnieosmond (Dec 12, 2007)

I agree with you then. My girlfriend is Jewish and I'm Catholic and we have very separate religious views but we never push them on each other or other people. Religion is meant to be a personal commitment between you and your God of choice and I have never believed that campaigning is the correct approach.


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## m3atwad (Dec 12, 2007)

well iblazethatkush it just so happens that i am god
and there is no son of mine.
if charles manson could get people to believe he was the son of god then im damn sure someone thousands of years ago could have too. 
religion is used to control us. thats it period over.
and revelation for the hundredth time the big bang theory is just a theory 
scientific proof shows when you take something really small and blow it up it doesnt expand it explodes. matter doesnt grow it gets smaller.
the big bang theory goes against common sense.
believe it all you want but its still just a theory its not proven and probably never will be.
theres no explanation for how the small pencil point got there in the first place. truth is no one will ever know how the universe started nor does it matter.


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 12, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> And if there's nothing after I die, I won't be disappointed because I'll already be dead.


This shows the true depths to your belief in these gods. Just saying you believe does not mean you truly believe... no matter how loud you shout it.

You will always know the truth, deep down.


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## tckfui (Dec 12, 2007)

I sometimes just think wow I cant wait to die to see what hapens!!! but than I say but than I'll be dead, so I can wait 
are these normal thoughts?
why do they only advertise for cheapets during christmass time?


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 12, 2007)

Now, I'm not saying I believe in "GOD" in a Christian sense, or even in any organized sense of religion's diety/god. However you want to name it, it's still a "being", controlling some or all aspects of life. This to me seems absolutely absurd. I explain it by saying that people project what they see and understand onto what they don't see and don't understand, rather than start a blank slate and actually look for truth. Thereby, God becomes similar in form to a human, yet all-powerful in ability.

However, don't get me wrong. I'm no atheist, and I'm not knocking religion in any sense. I'm only saying that to me, they all explain the same power. This power, I've come to call, simply, "energy". I don't know what it is. I don't claim to. I just know that I can feel it, and others can as well. How you choose to embody it is up to you, but I haven't found a satisfactory explanation from any religion (that I know about) to date. Therefore, I picked my own path for ideas. To me, God is just that...a human-created embodiement for energy in order to be more easily comprehended. It's the same no matter what you call it.

That's also true with everything in the world/life. Consider languages. Different sounds, same ideas.



"People have a habit of taking a good idea and making a belief out of it"


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## IggyZag (Dec 12, 2007)

I must say that I do believe in god, however I myself like many others dont fall under the "religious" crowd. I dont go to church, nor do I preach onto others. However I do believe god mad us, satan is real, and that there is a heaven and hell when you die.


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## m3atwad (Dec 12, 2007)

im sorry to say but you my friend are being controlled by thousand year old politics. 
i guess its a good thing that you believe in consequences for your actions so we know they'll be atleast 1 less serial killer in the world


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## bwinn27 (Dec 12, 2007)

just make the best of life you only have 1 chance.


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## LiveHigh (Dec 12, 2007)

Lacy said:


> _But I do believe in God. Most certainly 100 % but not in a religious sense because it is something that's man made and unfortunately as humans we don't have the capabilty to perceive something objectively since we have egos._
> 
> _When we die or leave our physical bodies, we loose our ego and see the entire picture._
> 
> ...


I'd just like to start out by saying I have no intention of offending you Lacy. I think you're a very nice person. That being said, I think there is a few things I feel I should point out. First of all, I don't understand how anyone can assume we have some sort of soul, or something about us that will live on when we die. Think about before you were born, do you think you had a soul then? Were you partying it up in a heaven before being born? I'm assuming no. So then you're saying you believe everyone's soul is born with them? So there are constantly new souls popping out every day...? When you see people lose limbs. That's part of that person dying. When you see a plant die, that's another living being dying. Same for animals...etc. Do you think they all step out and see the big picture when they die too?

I mean is reality really so harsh for people to take in, that they have to convince themselves that they have a unique soul that will carry them into another life/dimension/heaven/hell/whatever?

Oh, and my biggest gripe yet. The fact that people think they have anything to do with how their lives went. What makes people believe free will exists? Every decision you've ever made from brushing your teeth to getting married has been a series of reactions from your genetics and the environment around you. We, as human beings, are nothing more than organic robots that are constantly reacting to our environment, based on our genetics. When you have 'choices' in your head, they are merely chemicals giving you these choices, and chemicals making the choices. We feel like we make decisions, and are controlling everything, but we're really just reacting and feeling.

-LH


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## m3atwad (Dec 12, 2007)

livehigh most of what you say is true but free will is real my brotha. i choose to smoke weed. my brain isnt programming me to do it.


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## Gangsta Crizzab (Dec 12, 2007)

anyone who got mad style fo me and my herb can slide step to my heart anyday. But hey hey hey, Gangsta Crizzab is down with everyones beliefs. Myself am Agnostic with a little salty twist. Buddha is tight, God is tight, Abraham is tight, Scorp The Bork is tight, Jimmie Walker is tight, everyones tight.

- Peace with style, Gangsta Crizzab


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 12, 2007)

EXACTLY what i have said before.... The problem isnt with GOD or Religion, its with _*man and free will*_, the reason the Bible is such a contriversal book is because people _*interpret it ABSOLUTE anyway they please*_, some for gain, others for power, that why people shouldnt put preachers on a pedistal, they are human just like us. So as i said before I believe in God always and forever my faith is never changing, and i can say that after He took my father, but i trust in Him, and know all things work for the good, i know i will see him again one day........

God Bless....







LiveHigh said:


> I'd just like to start out by saying I have no intention of offending you Lacy. I think you're a very nice person. That being said, I think there is a few things I feel I should point out. First of all, I don't understand how anyone can assume we have some sort of soul, or something about us that will live on when we die. Think about before you were born, do you think you had a soul then? Were you partying it up in a heaven before being born? I'm assuming no. So then you're saying you believe everyone's soul is born with them? So there are constantly new souls popping out every day...? When you see people lose limbs. That's part of that person dying. When you see a plant die, that's another living being dying. Same for animals...etc. Do you think they all step out and see the big picture when they die too?
> 
> I mean is reality really so harsh for people to take in, that they have to convince themselves that they have a unique soul that will carry them into another life/dimension/heaven/hell/whatever?
> 
> ...


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## Lacy (Dec 12, 2007)

_VERY well said Puff! _



1puff2puff3puff said:


> EXACTLY what i have said before.... The problem isnt with GOD or Religion, its with _*man and free will*_, the reason the Bible is such a contriversal book is because people _*interpret it ABSOLUTE anyway they please*_, some for gain, others for power, that why people shouldnt put preachers on a pedistal, they are human just like us. So as i said before I believe in God always and forever my faith is never changing, and i can say that after He took my father, but i trust in Him, and know all things work for the good, i know i will see him again one day........
> 
> God Bless....


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## Lacy (Dec 12, 2007)

_I appreciate and respect your stance hightimes. We all have our own unigue perspective from our own personal experiences._

_Nothing more than organic robots???? _

_If I tried to explain my viewpoint in response to your questions, I am not sure how to sum it up simply. _

_But what is WATER?_


LiveHigh said:


> I'd just like to start out by saying I have no intention of offending you Lacy. I think you're a very nice person. That being said, I think there is a few things I feel I should point out. First of all, I don't understand how anyone can assume we have some sort of soul, or something about us that will live on when we die. Think about before you were born, do you think you had a soul then? Were you partying it up in a heaven before being born? I'm assuming no. So then you're saying you believe everyone's soul is born with them? So there are constantly new souls popping out every day...? When you see people lose limbs. That's part of that person dying. When you see a plant die, that's another living being dying. Same for animals...etc. Do you think they all step out and see the big picture when they die too?
> 
> I mean is reality really so harsh for people to take in, that they have to convince themselves that they have a unique soul that will carry them into another life/dimension/heaven/hell/whatever?
> 
> ...


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## Lacy (Dec 12, 2007)

_God was revealed to me and it was more truthful than any truth I've ever known. What about all the people who have literally died and come back to life? Is that ALL just an illusion?_
_I don't consider God a him or her or some dude in a white robe in the sky. I also don't believe in the easter bunny or santa claus._

_When you think about water, it appears to be liquid and yet it isn't. Its two gases mixed together. So why does it appear as a liquid to us as humans? _

_We are all made up of atoms and molecules that are connected together. Even rocks have energy but appear solid to us. We cannot distinguish the difference because we have an ego. Our brain and our mind are two completely different things. Are brain is a human organ. Our mind is far, far more than that and is what is connected to every single molecule. God is pure energy and is like the glue that holds us all together. _

_Because we perceive through our brain AND our mind we see objectives and ourselves as separate. _


_Throughout most of history even the subject of science and God have been assumed to be polar opposites and separate subjects. Not any more._

_I am not even against religion. If religion works to make a person a better person, then so be it but going to church doesn't make you a christian any more than walking into a garage makes you a mechanic._
_THAT type of mentality really urks me. confused:_




closet.cult said:


> i use these and the many, many, many inherent contradictions of the 'god hypothesis' to reason him out of the equation of daily life.
> 
> religious leaders tell us: 'our minds are too small to understand god."
> 
> ...


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 12, 2007)

Great post Lacy


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## LiveHigh (Dec 12, 2007)

Lacy said:


> _God was revealed to me and it was more truthful than any truth I've ever known. What about all the people who have literally died and come back to life? Is that ALL just an illusion?_
> _I don't consider God a him or her or some dude in a white robe in the sky. I also don't believe in the easter bunny or santa claus._
> 
> _When you think about water, it appears to be liquid and yet it isn't. Its two gases mixed together. So why does it appear as a liquid to us as humans? _
> ...


 
Good post. I agree with everything except God's existence. I think you'e making something out of nothing...and here's what I mean. When you say the 'glue' that holds it all together, you're making it seem like its all connected...and that all of it together is what makes 'us'. But there is no 'us'. People think by the combination of sight, feeling, hearing, tasting...etc that we have created some existence of YOU...but there is none. It all goes down to how it all works; your eyes, when open, are reading waves and sending your brain images. That are correct, obviously, unless you need glasses...that's why it makes sense when you think you see a tree and you walk up and touch it, and its there. 

All I'm getting at is there is no little guy sitting in everyones head controlling it all. Your body is just doing exactly what it's supposed to and you're making it seem like a bigger deal than it is. 

P.S. If you do believe in that God you explained, as you say you do. Why do you believe there is cancer, or any of the other horrid things in the world? Do you believe you're more special than a rat, in the sense that you have a soul and will see an afterlife, and the rat will not? Or do you believe you and the rat would both see an afterlife. And where would you explain where that God from? OH wait...I know...God is such a powerful entity that it created itself and then created time. Or are you going to go with the, "It's so fucking special, that you nor I could ever comprehend it." Because that's always a good one, no comeback for that one.

-LH


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## Lacy (Dec 12, 2007)

_I believe there is cancer because it exists. _
_No I do not think I am more special than any living thing on this earth. Comparing a rat to a human??????_
_Come one!!! We are more consciously evolved than a rat._

_At least MOST of us are. _

_You have a limited perception because of your personal life experiences and just like the rest of us, thats your viewpoint. It makes perfect sense to me but I have had different life experiences that have led me to believe differently. If you haven' t had many life experiences that challenge your belief system, then you don't question it until something happens to you to do so._

_There is no right or wrong answer here. You either believe in God or you don't. I can't say that you are wrong for believing or disbelieving in God._

_._


LiveHigh said:


> Good post. I agree with everything except God's existence. I think you'e making something out of nothing...and here's what I mean. When you say the 'glue' that holds it all together, you're making it seem like its all connected...and that all of it together is what makes 'us'. But there is no 'us'. People think by the combination of sight, feeling, hearing, tasting...etc that we have created some existence of YOU...but there is none. It all goes down to how it all works; your eyes, when open, are reading waves and sending your brain images. That are correct, obviously, unless you need glasses...that's why it makes sense when you think you see a tree and you walk up and touch it, and its there.
> 
> All I'm getting at is there is no little guy sitting in everyones head controlling it all. Your body is just doing exactly what it's supposed to and you're making it seem like a bigger deal than it is.
> 
> ...


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 13, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> closet cult don't you ever get tired of being so cynical of everything that happens in this world? I don't need proof to know God exists and that's completely ok to me that you don't believe in him. You probably also think that everything in the bible should be taken literally. Most of them are allegories denoting how people should try and live their lives. There isn't one person in this world that knows what every story in the bible truly means because they aren't meant to be understood fully. If you want to believe that when you close your eyes for the final time there is nothing but blackness and eternal dark then go ahead. I on the other hand, will look forward to an afterlife with a smile on my face until I die. And if there's nothing after I die, I won't be disappointed because I'll already be dead.


If I was your father and I told you stories all your life about how Ronald McDonald is god and when we die we will all go to McDonalds. 

You would be preaching that now. Its plain to see, you aren't capable of thinking for yourself. You have to rely on what others tell you.

Shame.


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## Lacy (Dec 13, 2007)

_This post asks "who believes in God? " or do you believe in God?_
_It didn't say "who believes in God and if so prove it to me!!!!!!!."_

_That would be like asking "who believes in love?" Of course everyone who answers is going to have a different viewpoint whether they believe in it or not._

_The person that has spent their life in foster care, neglected and abused most of their life is going to have different perspective than the person who came from a loving, understanding family. It doesn't make either of these people right or wrong if they believe in love or not._

_Trying to explain love to someone whom has never experienced it is like trying to explain the smell of a rose to someone who has never smelled one . You can do all the researching on how a rose smells but until you have experienced the smell of a rose, you just can't QUITE grasp the concept. _

_Try explaining love to someone who has never experienced it!!!!!!!_
_Seriously! _

_My point is, we all only know our own personally truth and no one else's. If someone doesn't believe in God because of whatever reason, then that is their own personal truth. If its working for them, even better, BUT I would NEVER condemn someone for their own personal beliefs; especially IF it was not doing them or anyone harm._


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## donnieosmond (Dec 13, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> If I was your father and I told you stories all your life about how Ronald McDonald is god and when we die we will all go to McDonalds.
> 
> You would be preaching that now. Its plain to see, you aren't capable of thinking for yourself. You have to rely on what others tell you.
> 
> Shame.


So because I say that the some of the stories in the bible are simply allegories and shouldn't be taken literally means that I can't think for myself? 

If you were my father I would have shot myself and found out the answer a long time ago.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 13, 2007)

Lacy said:


> _This post asks "who believes in God? " or do you believe in God?_
> _It didn't say "who believes in God and if so prove it to me!!!!!!!."_
> 
> _That would be like asking "who believes in love?" Of course everyone who answers is going to have a different viewpoint whether they believe in it or not._
> ...


Ignorance causes harm, or on a grander scale, religious war.


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## Lacy (Dec 13, 2007)

_Yes it does!_


mountainSpliff said:


> Ignorance causes harm, or on a grander scale, religious war.


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 13, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> Ignorance causes harm, or on a grander scale, religious war.


Exactly. Yes. Ignorance... and man's petty belief in these fairy tales is what has led to us being controlled all these years.

man is stupid, at least the majority are. So easily led, it would be laughable were it not so detrimental to the rest of us.

We know that we are related to all life on this planet, the genome projects are a testament to that.. yet there are those still foolishly clinging on to these archaic beliefs in gods and magic.

Silly? Oh yes they are.

There are no fairies, no santa and no gods... everyone of you knows the truth deep down. What you say you believe with your conscious mind, is not what you're really saying deep down in your sub conscious. You may try to keep it buried, but you will ALWAYS know the truth, even if you keep it in the very pit of your stomach. This is not the devil, it is your subconscious mind willing you to accept the truth.

When you do, you can move on to the next level, and stop wasting your life worshipping anything other than yourself... and this wonderful, but short, life we have to live.

Accept the truth.


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## Lacy (Dec 13, 2007)

_........................................changed my mine_




skunkushybrid said:


> Exactly. Yes. Ignorance... and man's petty belief in these fairy tales is what has led to us being controlled all these years.
> 
> man is stupid, at least the majority are. So easily led, it would be laughable were it not so detrimental to the rest of us.
> 
> ...


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## natmoon (Dec 13, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Exactly. Yes. Ignorance... and man's petty belief in these fairy tales is what has led to us being controlled all these years.
> 
> man is stupid, at least the majority are. So easily led, it would be laughable were it not so detrimental to the rest of us.
> 
> ...


All though in some small ways i agree with you about the fact that spirituality has been used to control us over time,there has to have been something there in it for our minds to fixate on.

Many people have believed in God or something or another including extremely clever people over the years.

You also need to consider the fact that it is possible for many people,lets say devil worshipers,to,as a collective,manifest all of their own badness,hate,anger,fear etc. into something real through their own belief.
I know you believe in the power of the mind skunky so maybe you know what i mean.

I am not saying that a true demon would appear but a manifestation of many minds projecting the same thing can be envisioned by the partakers and the same thing is seen by all as they all see a stereotypical demon that they have been brought up to believe is the way that it would look when in fact Lucifer was supposed to be very handsome indeed and looked nothing like a horny goat.

Any non believers that are at the ceremony would therefore have a 50/50 chance of seeing the creature that is only really a manifestation of our minds creation.

Why 50/50 you ask,well 50% of people see everything that is there and 50% of people only see what they want to see

In all reality this manifestation would not be real like we are but it would be a collective hallucination created with real energy's and minds and therefore it would exist if even only for the people that were participating and it is also possible that this collective consciousness of bad thoughts may well have a presence of kinds that could influence the surrounding people.

I think that the same is also possibly possible for those that worship good energy,that is has a chance to actually manifest itself into an influential energy even if it does not become visible.
It is likely that more visions of demons are reported than angels as we all have a very good idea of what a demon would/should/could look like whereas our ideas of God and Jesus is that they just look like ordinary men.

I think it is also possible/probable that everyone of us has a small part of good and a small part of the universes evil within us and that as a collective group these energy's/feelings can be manifested into something more real.

This is quite possibly what happened a long time ago when we were more tribal and the reason that they made these kind of rituals and drugs to induce it illegal.

I think it also probable that the reason God and the Devil,Good and Evil,reside within everyone of us and every creature on this planet and within the universe is that this is what creates the balance of life so that life can exist at all even for the limited times that we live,100 years of life is an infinitesimally small amount time in the scheme of things a mere nanosecond of life in the balance of the universe.

I am very stoned so i may be talking shit


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## m3atwad (Dec 13, 2007)

religion is a man made concept designed to help us deal with having to live and die.
in my opinion god isnt real but if the idea of an afterlife or a god helps you cope with the fact that you will one day die then go for it.


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## LiveHigh (Dec 13, 2007)

natmoon said:


> All though in some small ways i agree with you about the fact that spirituality has been used to control us over time,there has to have been something there in it for our minds to fixate on.
> 
> Many people have believed in God or something or another including extremely clever people over the years.
> 
> ...


No offense, but you're crazy. You're going way out of your way to make up some crazy shit.

Skunk has it right although I don't know if everyone 'knows' the truth deep down. People only know what they know. I've always been a firm believer that the majority of this world is simply too stupid to ever grasp reality. Too stupid to break their way out of the box of life that has been presented to them. I do, however, believe that there is a large population of people who don't believe in religion, or God, that claim they do.

One funny thing i'd like to point out is how people change what a higher power is over time. It starts off as a God in a white robe, and the longer time drags on the more they try to make it reasonable. So now it's an energy.

And Lacy, talking about the different beliefs of a foster child and a well raised child doesn't matter. I don't think anybody here is trying to dispute what people believe to maintain comfort and stability in their life. We are talking logic, and trying to figure out the truth from the scandal.

I will tell you that the longer time goes on the more 'mysterious' shit turns into flat out bullshit. I have absolute faith that this entire universe can be broken down by logic, and WHEN we do discover what exactly started it all, it will be because of science, and it will most definitely be comprehendable to us.

-LH


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## natmoon (Dec 13, 2007)

Yeah man i is crazy


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## mastakoosh (Dec 13, 2007)

i worshipped moobie. before that i worshipped myself, as some on here do. before that i worshipped a golden calf. and before that i worshipped a small amoeba that we all came from. now i believe we came from the gases from a mars alien space fart that drifted.


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 13, 2007)

LiveHigh said:


> I'd just like to start out by saying I have no intention of offending you Lacy. I think you're a very nice person. That being said, I think there is a few things I feel I should point out. First of all, I don't understand how anyone can assume we have some sort of soul, or something about us that will live on when we die. Think about before you were born, do you think you had a soul then? Were you partying it up in a heaven before being born? I'm assuming no. So then you're saying you believe everyone's soul is born with them? So there are constantly new souls popping out every day...? When you see people lose limbs. That's part of that person dying. When you see a plant die, that's another living being dying. Same for animals...etc. Do you think they all step out and see the big picture when they die too?
> 
> I mean is reality really so harsh for people to take in, that they have to convince themselves that they have a unique soul that will carry them into another life/dimension/heaven/hell/whatever?
> 
> ...


 
Souls aren't created, they're ever present. I dunno how stuff gets created. But science can't explain that to you either (energy cannot be created or destroyed). Perhaps though, there's just more to this that we don't understand, and we can't understand because we continue to speculate. speculating isn't a bad way to start...in fact it gives you some idea as to what is there. but speculating won't get you the answer. eventually you've just got to break down and accept you know nothing. Only then can you learn.


(Not specific _you's_ pointed towards anyone. That's just a general statement. I mean no offense to anyone)


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 13, 2007)

You already know everything. But you won't turn your conscious off long enough to know it.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 13, 2007)

Live High you are an absolute idiot, but i hope you dont take that to offence... You really need to learn to state your opinion without offending people AGAIN the post is called Do You believe in God, not... Try to belittle and disrespect peoples beliefs.


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## Lacy (Dec 13, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> _Haha Donny! I choked on my tea again!_
> 
> _Great answer! Too funny!_


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## Lacy (Dec 13, 2007)

_Whatever Livehigh. You're brain is obviously more superior than anyone elses. _


LiveHigh said:


> No offense, but you're crazy. You're going way out of your way to make up some crazy shit.
> 
> Skunk has it right although I don't know if everyone 'knows' the truth deep down. People only know what they know. I've always been a firm believer that the majority of this world is simply too stupid to ever grasp reality. Too stupid to break their way out of the box of life that has been presented to them. I do, however, believe that there is a large population of people who don't believe in religion, or God, that claim they do.
> 
> ...


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## LiveHigh (Dec 13, 2007)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> Live High you are an absolute idiot, but i hope you dont take that to offence... You really need to learn to state your opinion without offending people AGAIN the post is called Do You believe in God, not... Try to belittle and disrespect peoples beliefs.


I think crazy is a bit more playful than idiot but okay. There is really no need to get angry.


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## Evil Buddies (Dec 14, 2007)

there could be a god there might not. Life is 4 living not for worrying about a god or death. I prefer to worship what is evident to me. So the sun the moon and earth. These are the things that give us life. I believe in karma and believe if there is a heaven as long as u are good and have love in ur heart u wil be excepted. Lifes to short to worry about something that may or may not be. Just have fun and be a good person as best u can be. Dont waste time on ifs and maybes as time is the most precious thing we all have.


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 14, 2007)

Heaven is here on Earth. Heaven is happiness... if you can be happy for the majority of your life, even when you have nothing to be happy about, you will know heaven.

Life is the most prescious thing we own. Believe that good things will happen, and they shall eventually come to you. even if it is just the realisation that you don't need material things to be happy, you will stay a happy person.

This is heaven. Life. Love your life.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 14, 2007)

LiveHigh said:


> I think crazy is a bit more playful than idiot but okay. There is really no need to get angry.


 
He's getting angry because he's religious.


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## Evil Buddies (Dec 14, 2007)

most people have been killed in the name of religion from many years ago. I think the bad outways the good religion can bring. Everyone has the right to believe what they want to. We should respect what other choose to believe. We can live in peace the whole of mankind united. The truth is we are living in a world that is ruled by greed and power. We have enough resources on this planet for all to have food and shelter. Yet there is so much pain and suffering for many. People with no food and shelter. I say consume ur heart with love for all mankind. Instead of greed and material things. We are destroying our planet for greed money and power. Religion should have the ideals to save our planet not for us to fight and kill over it. Theres enough on this earth for all of us.


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## mastakoosh (Dec 14, 2007)

i am a little religious. but killing in the name of religion has always sounded hypocritical to me. i think it misconstrues the true meaning of belief.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 14, 2007)

"Kage. Do you believe in God?" "I believe. I believe in God." - Tenacious D

hahahahaha I'm blitzed out of my mind right now.


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## CannaMama (Dec 14, 2007)

I believe in God very deeply. I am not a believer in religion. Who *really* knows that Jesus is our Saviour?


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 14, 2007)

Duelity
hahahahahahahhahaha I'm still fucked up right now. God it's been like 3 weeks since I've hit the bong and holy hell I'm getting so blitzed off this Orange strain.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 14, 2007)

How does it feel to know absolutley everything...... ROFL you dont know me or what i feel....



mountainSpliff said:


> He's getting angry because he's religious.


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## donnieosmond (Dec 14, 2007)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> How does it feel to know absolutley everything...... ROFL you dont know me or what i feel....


Don't listen to him, he huffed too many paint cans as a kid.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 14, 2007)

I guess its hard to believe in God, when you THINK you are Him... What a riot...lol!!


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## mastakoosh (Dec 14, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Heaven is here on Earth. Heaven is happiness... if you can be happy for the majority of your life, even when you have nothing to be happy about, you will know heaven.
> 
> Life is the most prescious thing we own. Believe that good things will happen, and they shall eventually come to you. even if it is just the realisation that you don't need material things to be happy, you will stay a happy person.
> 
> This is heaven. Life. Love your life.


 i believe in some of these things also. i also believe in a higher power. not so different after all.


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## Pizip (Dec 14, 2007)

yeah i sure do believe in god.

I feel like gettn high and stay up until like 5:30 or later in the morning.
right now its 12:46 am.


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## Garden Knowm (Dec 15, 2007)

what is the definition of "believe"?


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## Evil Buddies (Dec 15, 2007)

believe is something u hope to be true. U feel it exists but have no scientific evidence to back it up. So u believe something to be true instead of knowing it to be true. U understand that g k


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## Garden Knowm (Dec 15, 2007)

thanks evil

well then.. my answer is NO.. i don't believe in GOD..

I actually don't believe in anything... i am smart like a fooking rock...

ahahhahahahh

ILOVEYOU

I AM LOVE


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## crazy-mental (Dec 15, 2007)

the more you put into life, the more you get out. most of us have choices.


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## Evil Buddies (Dec 15, 2007)

Garden Knowm said:


> thanks evil
> 
> well then.. my answer is NO.. i don't believe in GOD..
> 
> ...


Your welcome


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## Pizip (Dec 15, 2007)

I wish people didn't worrie about other peoples religion, why can't we all just get along?
.....don't answer that......


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 15, 2007)

Evil Buddies said:


> believe is something u hope to be true. U feel it exists but have no scientific evidence to back it up. So u believe something to be true instead of knowing it to be true. U understand that g k


Evidence doesn't even have to be "scientific". I'd say it's the difference between knowing something conciously vs knowing it unconsciously. once you conciously understand it, it becomes "knowing" as we know it. While it is unconscious knowledge, it is "belief".


..to me.


...wow. i used the word "know" a lot...


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## mastakoosh (Dec 15, 2007)

everyone keeps talking about scientific theories and stuff. have you ever just felt something was true without scientific concrete evidence. your "gut feeling" or intuition. i get a lot of intuitions and feelings about stuff that turn out to be 100% true without any facts or evidence at all. i dont need a theory to tell me everything to believe. so i believe in a higher power without ever meeting god yet. some things are too complex for our feeble minds to comprehend throughout our whole journey called life. our whole purpose of being here on earth in this vast space is what? to be born and then die and turn into worm food. if there is no purpose for us, why dont we all just go murder our next door neighbors for fun. if there is no good and evil, and no consequences to pay if you get away with it, whats stopping anybody. if i didn't believe why should i care about anyone else or having any conscience.


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## Evil Buddies (Dec 16, 2007)

mastakoosh said:


> everyone keeps talking about scientific theories and stuff. have you ever just felt something was true without scientific concrete evidence. your "gut feeling" or intuition. i get a lot of intuitions and feelings about stuff that turn out to be 100% true without any facts or evidence at all. i dont need a theory to tell me everything to believe. so i believe in a higher power without ever meeting god yet. some things are too complex for our feeble minds to comprehend throughout our whole journey called life. our whole purpose of being here on earth in this vast space is what? to be born and then die and turn into worm food. if there is no purpose for us, why dont we all just go murder our next door neighbors for fun. if there is no good and evil, and no consequences to pay if you get away with it, whats stopping anybody. if i didn't believe why should i care about anyone else or having any conscience.


Is ur right to believe as u want as its the right for me to have an open mind. 4 me life is for living. I concentrate on living life and having a happy one. But until i get some evidence of a god or a divine being i wil always have my doubts. The possibilities and theories of the universe and how it was created are endless.


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## mastakoosh (Dec 16, 2007)

Evil Buddies said:


> Is ur right to believe as u want as its the right for me to have an open mind. 4 me life is for living. I concentrate on living life and having a happy one. But until i get some evidence of a god or a divine being i wil always have my doubts. The possibilities and theories of the universe and how it was created are endless.


 i agree with you.


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## Evil Buddies (Dec 16, 2007)

yeah thats cool


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## natrone23 (Dec 16, 2007)

_*Mastakush* ~ our whole purpose of being here on earth in this vast space is what? to be born and then die and turn into worm food. if there is no purpose for us, why dont we all just go murder our next door neighbors for fun. if there is no good and evil, and no consequences to pay if you get away with it, whats stopping anybody. if i didn't believe why should i care about anyone else or having any conscience

_Societies that where the majority of people are non-believers( Norway, Sweden, Japan, Denmark) are by far more peaceful and have a significantly lower crime rate than countries where a majority of the people believe in God (ex. U.S) The U.S prisons are packed full of Believers....and the Atheist prison population is actually lower in percentage, in comparison with the Atheist population in society. About 10 to 20 percent of the U.S population don't believe in God...Under your hypotheisis these people should be out there killing their neighbors. Its not happening!


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## preoQpydDlusion (Dec 16, 2007)

i believe in god because i am aware of my own existence. we are all god

everybody owns a different reality. scratch that, every EGO has a different reality. every day you build on the universe that only you sees, making connections and disassociations to what you experience; creating a world that caters to your personal satisfaction. even those who swear they hate their lives are exactly where they need to be. from the criminally psychotic to the devastatingly depressed; the hopelessly needy to the explosively angry. 
gratification is not always achieved through prosperity.
but that's all ego. our minds running on autopilot, the _real_ US watching from a distance

the absolute truth is that the real YOU is the exact same thing as the real ME. pure awareness is the core of existence. there are no lines that seperate us on this level. no separation at all between all things, making pure awareness all encompassing. the biggest, most powerful thing possible


e·go








 /&#712;i




go&#650;, &#712;&#603;g




o&#650;/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[*ee*-goh, *eg*-oh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural e·gos.1.the I or self of any person; a person as thinking, feeling, and willing, and distinguishing itself from the selves of others and from objects of its thought.

3.egotism; conceit; self-importance: _Her ego becomes more unbearable each day._  4.self-esteem or self-image; feelings: _Your criticism wounded his ego._
notice the different meanings of this word. if somebody is described as being egotistical, it generally means they are pompous or conceited. on the other hand if somebody thinks low of themself their ego is criticized as well. both types are the result of thinking you are somehow different than/seperate from what you see.
the definitions above are not alternate meanings, they all describe the exact same thing. personal identification with this body you have, this life you lead, should be done very carefully. distinguishing yourself from others has practical purposes, but it is damaging to the spirit

you and God are the same thing. you can pick up and read most religious texts and see this to be supported

if your beliefs require you to see yourself as lowly, "not worthy", imperfect, etc., it is a refection of your ego's need for security to be satisfied. by assuming there is a "higher power" you feel more importance in everything you do because He is watching you or because He has a plan. or maybe you feel you don't have enough control over your experiences and you pray for your experiences to be more in your favor.
the hope for everlasting life is a reflection of the ego's need for meaning, purpose, or justice. or it might be simply a shallow conclusion of the nature of death. if you think you don't know what death is- by definition, nonexistence doesn't exist. think about it. ever been knocked unconscience? there's no reason to think you're going to keep experiencing things when you're dead. any belief or faith of an "after-life" is simply stupid. not to mention it's an oxymoron.
if you do continue to live after you die, you didn't really die now did you?


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## preoQpydDlusion (Dec 16, 2007)

natrone23 said:


> Under your hypotheisis these people should be out there killing their neighbors. Its not happening!


word


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 16, 2007)

mastakoosh said:


> everyone keeps talking about scientific theories and stuff. have you ever just felt something was true without scientific concrete evidence. your "gut feeling" or intuition. i get a lot of intuitions and feelings about stuff that turn out to be 100% true without any facts or evidence at all. i dont need a theory to tell me everything to believe. so i believe in a higher power without ever meeting god yet. some things are too complex for our feeble minds to comprehend throughout our whole journey called life. our whole purpose of being here on earth in this vast space is what? to be born and then die and turn into worm food. if there is no purpose for us, why dont we all just go murder our next door neighbors for fun. if there is no good and evil, and no consequences to pay if you get away with it, whats stopping anybody. if i didn't believe why should i care about anyone else or having any conscience.


We dont go murder our neighbor because then our neighbor could come murder us. we don't want that, so we don't do it. 

...then come all the laws and crap. I'm a big opponent of written law, but heyll. nothin i can do bout it.


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## mastakoosh (Dec 16, 2007)

natrone23 said:


> _*Mastakush* ~ our whole purpose of being here on earth in this vast space is what? to be born and then die and turn into worm food. if there is no purpose for us, why dont we all just go murder our next door neighbors for fun. if there is no good and evil, and no consequences to pay if you get away with it, whats stopping anybody. if i didn't believe why should i care about anyone else or having any conscience
> 
> _Societies that where the majority of people are non-believers( Norway, Sweden, Japan, Denmark) are by far more peaceful and have a significantly lower crime rate than countries where a majority of the people believe in God (ex. U.S) The U.S prisons are packed full of Believers....and the Atheist prison population is actually lower in percentage, in comparison with the Atheist population in society. About 10 to 20 percent of the U.S population don't believe in God...Under your hypotheisis these people should be out there killing their neighbors. Its not happening!


 very well thought out argument, but i believe it is slightly askew and biased. of course the U.S. has the most believers behind bars. considering we have the largest number of incarcerated people in the world due to our governments ridiculous war on drugs. couple that with the fact the U.S. has the most religious believers of all the countries hence the largest number of believers behind bars. so the numbers show we have the most people behind bars because of religion? i dont believe so at all, i think it shows we have the most crimes because of our unjust laws against drugs. are you buying into our governments numbers and laws? of course there are more believers behind bars. because there are more believers here period. so your numbers can be looked at in a different point of view. i will state again, i do not force my values on anyone. live your life in a way that makes you happy because that is the way i live. i do not judge anyone because it is not my place to judge. now to all non believers that say it stupid to believe, isn't that a bit hypocritical trying to disect and disprove any religious convictions. it seems that you are trying to force people into not believing therefore doing what you say people of faith are trying to force you to do. oh yeah it was not a theory i was talking about for the whole world but my own system of morals. if i did not care what kind of life i led, why couldn't it be only the strong survive for me. it means never giving anyone else a helping hand because as long as my life is not in jeopardy why worry about anyone else? i dont care to get into a flame fest and i respect everyones point of view. i am just stating how i feel. there are hypocritical believers and non believers. i broke my rule of stating my beliefs on an open forum lol. religion and politics get quite heated for people to discuss and it is not something i partake in often.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 16, 2007)

I would rob a bank tommorow if I didn't believe in God. And I'm not joking, you don't even need a gun, all you need is a note. I agree w/ mastakoosh, if you believe there are no consequences for your actions then what's stopping you? If there's no God then there's no heaven or hell, so what's stopping you?


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## tckfui (Dec 16, 2007)

whats stoping me is that I'm not sure... and that damn jail... if someone said to me they had the fool proof perfect plant to get millions of dollars... I think I'd have a hard time turning him down... 

And by the way, god came over last night, and he said he was very unhapy with alot of you people


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## natmoon (Dec 16, 2007)

Just move to Amsterdam and start a pot farm,you'll be rich and you wont end up in jail not to mention you'll never run out of weed


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## mastakoosh (Dec 16, 2007)

natmoon said:


> Just move to Amsterdam and start a pot farm,you'll be rich and you wont end up in jail not to mention you'll never run out of weed


 i found my goal in life haha


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## tckfui (Dec 16, 2007)

but amsterdam is cold wintertime! I nead hot all year!!!


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## Garden Knowm (Dec 16, 2007)

If you stop believing, you will finally KNOW.

One more side not.... as a normal human born into a body, you are like a 5 watt light bulb. To actually EXPERIENCE HER you need to increase your handling ability.. ONE need to be able to conduct about 1,000,000 watts. 

So ONE need to transform or evolve into a STRONGER BULB.... If one experiences GOD as only a 5 watt BULB... one GETS VERY CONFUSED AND SCARED AND QUIKLY RUNS BACK INTO THE MIND.... there are NO TRUE answers about GOD in the MIND.. 
Except ONE.. that GOD is not in the mind.. nor is there and understanding of GOD in the mind.. The mind can ONLY point to GOD... nothing more.. nothing less..

SO - how does ONE increase there wattage handling capabilities so that one can EXPERIENCE GOD... ? that is the only question that a true seeker focus's on...

iloveyou


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## Garden Knowm (Dec 16, 2007)

one final note... we are all the same creature.. just because you can't see your ass.. does not mean that it is NOT you.... go ahead.. kill your neighbor.. see hoe it feels.. you might as well staple your balls to the floor...

imagine being a soldier and being forced to kill your mom, your sister, your dad, your brother, yourself... this realization eventually comes to everyone.. and IT is brutally painful.. remember that the next time you are mean to anything on this earth...

iloveyou


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## natrone23 (Dec 16, 2007)

[FONT=Verdana,Ariel]The Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious
affiliations of inmates. The following are total number of
inmates per religion category
:[/FONT]*Catholic* 29,267 39.164%*Protestant* 26,162 35.008%*Muslim* 5,435 7.273%*American Indian* 2,408 3.222%*Nation* 1,734 2.320%*Rasta* 1,485 1.987%*Jewish* 1,325 1.773%*Church of Christ* 1,303 1.744%*Pentecostal* 1,093 1.463%*Moorish* 1,066 1.426%*Buddhist* 882 1.180%*Jehovah Witness* 665 0.890%*Adventist* 621 0.831%*Orthodox *375 0.502%*Mormon* 298 0.399%*Scientology* 190 0.254%*Atheist *156 0.209%*Hindu* 119 0.159%*Santeria* 117 0.157%*Sikh *14 0.019%*Bahai* 9 0.012%*Krishna*7 0.009%

[FONT=Verdana,Ariel]Total Known Responses 74,731

[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Ariel]Denise Golumbaski
Research Analyst
Federal Bureau of Prisons

[/FONT]*Note that atheists, being a moderate proportion of the USA population (about 10-20%) are disproportionately less in the prison populations (0.21%)*


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## mastakoosh (Dec 16, 2007)

natrone23 said:


> [FONT=Verdana,Ariel]The Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious
> affiliations of inmates. The following are total number of
> inmates per religion category:[/FONT]Catholic 29,267 39.164%Protestant 26,162 35.008%Muslim 5,435 7.273%American Indian 2,408 3.222%Nation 1,734 2.320%Rasta 1,485 1.987%Jewish 1,325 1.773%Church of Christ 1,303 1.744%Pentecostal 1,093 1.463%Moorish 1,066 1.426%Buddhist 882 1.180%Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%Adventist 621 0.831%Orthodox 375 0.502%Mormon 298 0.399%Scientology 190 0.254%Atheist 156 0.209%Hindu 119 0.159%Santeria 117 0.157%Sikh 14 0.019%Bahai 9 0.012%Krishna 7 0.009%
> 
> ...


 i already came upon these exact same statistics earlier lol.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 16, 2007)

natrone23 said:


> [FONT=Verdana,Ariel]The Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious[/FONT]
> [FONT=Verdana,Ariel]affiliations of inmates. The following are total number of[/FONT]
> [FONT=Verdana,Ariel]inmates per religion category[/FONT]
> [FONT=Verdana,Ariel]:[/FONT]*Catholic* 29,267 39.164%*Protestant* 26,162 35.008%*Muslim* 5,435 7.273%*American Indian* 2,408 3.222%*Nation* 1,734 2.320%*Rasta* 1,485 1.987%*Jewish* 1,325 1.773%*Church of Christ* 1,303 1.744%*Pentecostal* 1,093 1.463%*Moorish* 1,066 1.426%*Buddhist* 882 1.180%*Jehovah Witness* 665 0.890%*Adventist* 621 0.831%*Orthodox *375 0.502%*Mormon* 298 0.399%*Scientology* 190 0.254%*Atheist *156 0.209%*Hindu* 119 0.159%*Santeria* 117 0.157%*Sikh *14 0.019%*Bahai* 9 0.012%*Krishna*7 0.009%
> ...


No shit, Prisons are full of minorities. Specifically black people. Black people are more religious than white people. The majority of atheists are white and white people are a minority in prison.


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## FilthyFletch (Dec 17, 2007)

There is no god and the people who believe in so called gods are the reason we have war and killings in this world as each one thinks his god is the true god and is willing to die for his gods word...dumb asses...


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 17, 2007)

Fuck you. Your the dumbass for insulting some one elses beliefs. There's a difference between religion and spirtuality. I feel sorry for you that you don't believe in God.


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## Garden Knowm (Dec 17, 2007)

FilthyFletch said:


> There is no god and the people who believe in so called gods are the reason we have war and killings in this world as each one thinks his god is the true god and is willing to die for his gods word...dumb asses...




i could NOT agree more..

I just wish GOD would save us all.. LOL

iloveyou


The first sign of somebody who does not KNOW GOD is aggression...
iloveyou


God never needs defending.. GOd can not be defended.. God can not be believed in.. god can not be known.. God can only be experienced...

GOD is everything... the universe is GODS body... and those that give off negativity are THE cancer in GODS sacred BODY..

i would rather die than KILL... I am eternal and only serve god..

iloveyou

ahahhahahahahha


i love poon too!


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 17, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> No shit, Prisons are full of minorities. Specifically black people. Black people are more religious than white people. The majority of atheists are white and white people are a minority in prison.


No, the reason there are less atheists in prison is that the atheists have nothing to do on a Sunday. Going to church gets you out of your cell. I remember one time trying to convince the screws that i wanted to turn muslim. It so happened that ramadan (or whatever) was coming up, and that the muslim inmates get loads of fried chicken and other goodies sent in from outside.

The screws didn't buy it, and I wasn't allowed to convert to Islam, apparently.

In there I was a church of england inmate, Church is an ideal place to meet up with other inmates from other wings, etc, etc...

Those figures are not reliable.


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## Evil Buddies (Dec 17, 2007)

yeah church is good to c ur buddies from the other wings or blocks. So u can buy ur weed etc with others u cant reach. If u say ur jewish if u go jail u wil get the best food. The jewish inmates where laughing when they got their meals. While others were jealous of thier meal. And u can look at people on death row and c people last meal requests what crimes they commited u even see their pics and full stats. Google texas death row last meal requests. U can get all the prisoner info beware some of the crimes commited are really sick.


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## natrone23 (Dec 17, 2007)

]These was my main points out of that post, The prison thing was just minor point..Anybody care to address these


natrone23 said:


> _Societies that where the majority of people are non-believers( Norway, Sweden, Japan, Denmark) are by far more peaceful and have a significantly lower crime rate than countries where a majority of the people believe in God (ex. U.S)_
> 
> _About 10 to 20 percent of the U.S population don't believe in God...Under your hypotheisis these people should be out there killing their neighbors. Its not happening__!_


Skunk you could be right about those stats they could be skewed slightly but I think in my opinion a majority of those respondents were true beleivers.
When I was in Marine Corps boot camp some Marines would go to church to get away from the drill instructors and get some sleep while at church. i myself took the oportunity to get some sleep at church the first day when they made all of us go to church. After that I never went back


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## mastakoosh (Dec 17, 2007)

natrone23 said:


> ]These was my main points out of that post, The prison thing was just minor point..Anybody care to address these
> 
> Skunk you could be right about those stats they could be skewed slightly but I think in my opinion a majority of those respondents were true beleivers.
> When I was in Marine Corps boot camp some Marines would go to church to get away from the drill instructors and get some sleep while at church. i myself took the oportunity to get some sleep at church the first day when they made all of us go to church. After that I never went back


 i already addressed that. we have more believers in the united states. couple that with our ridiculous war on crime. we have higher crime rates because of these petty charges being brought on to make the government rich. therefore the numbers indicate higher numbers of believers who commit crimes. but i dont think religion has much to do with these stastistics as much as our inept government policies.


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## natrone23 (Dec 17, 2007)

Lets just look at Murders as a percentage of murders per 1,000 citizens and this statistics does not include ant petty crimes such drug poss.ect. It also takes into account that the U.S has overall larger population...so that is the point of comparing murders per 1000 citizens...the overall population does not affect the percentage. NationMaster - Murders (per capita) (most recent) by country

Notice countries that I stated earlier where their is a majority of Non-Believers
(Norway, Denmark, Japan) are located at the bottom of the list in Murders per capita..................Meaning countries where a majority of the citizens are non beleivers actually commit *less *murders.


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## natrone23 (Dec 17, 2007)

natrone23 said:


> _*Mastakush* ~ our whole purpose of being here on earth in this vast space is what? to be born and then die and turn into worm food. if there is no purpose for us, why dont we all just go murder our next door neighbors for fun. if there is no good and evil, and no consequences to pay if you get away with it, whats stopping anybody. if i didn't believe why should i care about anyone else or having any conscience_


Why arn't Atheists out there murdering people


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 17, 2007)

Because we have morals


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## Garden Knowm (Dec 17, 2007)

rev3la7ion said:


> Because we have morals


hello my friend...

I don't have morals.. I actually don't have anything...

can you tell me where you got these morals?
are they real?
how much do they cost?
are they correct?

what ARE "morals"?

iloveyou


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## abudsmoker (Dec 17, 2007)

God 


Good orderly direction. 


[email protected] a book written 2000 years ago. any proof? 


just my side.


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## potpimp (Dec 17, 2007)

Most people that claim that the Bible is "full of errors", etc, has never read one single book of it. You should seriously study chemisty, mathematics, history, medicine and the sciences before disbelieving. With that said, I'm spiritual, not religious - if that makes sence.


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## mastakoosh (Dec 17, 2007)

potpimp said:


> Most people that claim that the Bible is "full of errors", etc, has never read one single book of it. You should seriously study chemisty, mathematics, history, medicine and the sciences before disbelieving. With that said, I'm spiritual, not religious - if that makes sence.


 i agree with you here. my life is an ever changing journey. i am spiritual and really have limited knowledge on the bible even though i did go to church when i was younger. i have questioned whether there is a higher power before which is reasonable for anyone. there is even a new book which states at times even mother theresa questioned her faith as well. it is perfectly normal for anyone to question. i think it is funny how people attack people for something they believe in... i am not even upset about anyones views here, i respect how everyone feels.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 17, 2007)

natrone23 said:


> Why arn't Atheists out there murdering people


Because you guys are scared to, you know deep down in your sould God exists.


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## jaketrie (Dec 17, 2007)

rev3la7ion said:


> I currently don't believe in the christian god. Considering the bible is the most historically accurate, where they have SOME facts to back the bible up, that makes the christian god the most believable out of the rest there is. Now that I have that out of the way, I do not believe in the christian god since I believe this universe happened upon by chance because of an imbalance of neutrino's in the big bang. Since we have now proven that the universe is consistently expanding outwards like a sphere then there had to have been a beginning point. Anyways, the argument christians try to use against my theory is that since we are such complex beings that we couldn't have happened by chance thus requiring a creative designer. Yet they fail to see how complex 'god' is considering he is omnipotent and omniscient. There couldn't be a more complex entity than 'god'. And if the argument is that complexity requires creative design then god would have to require a creative designer as well yet this is contrary to christian belief. Hence, I do not believe in god. There are other reasons too but this one sort of stands out.


Hey man this is my first post so im not exactly sure where this is going to go, i just would like to respond to your thoughts. After reading your post, it seems that you do not believe in the christian god because there was one single beginning point to the universe, and christians only response to your argument is that we are complex therefore there must be a designer. These points dont line up therefore there must not be a god. To that, this is my response: There are many arguments for the existence of god, one of which is called the teleological argument, this is the argument you have described in your post, that god must exist because of the design and order found in the world. This can be a powerful argument, but you have raised doubts of god's existence because of the origins of the universe. The teleogical argument is not the proper argumnent for your doubts. I believe that the cosmological argument will better suit your doubts. This argument states that god exists because he is the ultimate cause of the universe. Basically what i am saying is that science has proved for many years that the universe has had a beginning point. Scientists have used the "big bang" argument to describe this beginning. I am ok with that, but things dont just pop into existence, something causes everything. Therefore, there must be something that is outside of time that has the ability to form and cause the universe to "pop" into existence. I believe that this force or being is or was god. I am not making concrete statements of gods existence, nor am i attempting to shove some sort of belief set down your throat, i am just trying to show you one of the reasons i believe in god. Oh, and i didnt mean anything by not ever capitilizing the g in god, i was just lazy. much love man.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 17, 2007)

The fact that you have to insult peoples beliefs to prove a point says alot about you, we could say your a _*dumb ass*_ for not believing, but why do i need to trade insults back in forth with you, what is the point. I am willing to die and go to hell for my beliefs, i hope you are willing to do the same for yours. And thats, that we cant change each others strong convictions or beliefs, all i can do is pray for you and ask that you stop calling people names like a kid, we are having an adult conversation.... arent we???


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 17, 2007)

_*VERY GOOD POINT!!!*_





jaketrie said:


> Hey man this is my first post so im not exactly sure where this is going to go, i just would like to respond to your thoughts. After reading your post, it seems that you do not believe in the christian god because there was one single beginning point to the universe, and christians only response to your argument is that we are complex therefore there must be a designer. These points dont line up therefore there must not be a god. To that, this is my response: There are many arguments for the existence of god, one of which is called the teleological argument, this is the argument you have described in your post, that god must exist because of the design and order found in the world. This can be a powerful argument, but you have raised doubts of god's existence because of the origins of the universe. The teleogical argument is not the proper argumnent for your doubts. I believe that the cosmological argument will better suit your doubts. This argument states that god exists because he is the ultimate cause of the universe. Basically what i am saying is that science has proved for many years that the universe has had a beginning point. Scientists have used the "big bang" argument to describe this beginning. I am ok with that, but things dont just pop into existence, something causes everything. Therefore, there must be something that is outside of time that has the ability to form and cause the universe to "pop" into existence. I believe that this force or being is or was god. I am not making concrete statements of gods existence, nor am i attempting to shove some sort of belief set down your throat, i am just trying to show you one of the reasons i believe in god. Oh, and i didnt mean anything by not ever capitilizing the g in god, i was just lazy. much love man.


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## rev3la7ion (Dec 17, 2007)

Garden Knowm said:


> hello my friend...
> 
> I don't have morals.. I actually don't have anything...
> 
> ...


I got these morals from the understanding of how my society works best based on what I have to offer to society. I respect others property so they feel compelled to respect mine. I don't kill others so I won't get killed in turn. All that.

Yes, morals are real.

They don't cost anything but the sweat from actually debating what is considered ethical and what isn't which should decide what morals you side with and those you don't.


They are correct to myself and myself alone. I don't preach about my morals to others because I let them come up with their own morals.

Morals, to me, is the collective understanding of what is considered right or wrong based on debating the principles of a simple society and how it works.


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## dalgoda (Dec 17, 2007)

My god can kick your gods ass any time any place.......whatevers dudes
everyone is entitled to their opinions.
like take the color red. nobody sees it the same.We all just agree that what we call red is red and that is that. it really is a silly debate. What else do we have to do in life tho.Breed eat sleep and oh yea ....Smoke Pot 
Peace


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## suicidesamurai (Dec 17, 2007)

potpimp said:


> Most people that claim that the Bible is "full of errors", etc, has never read one single book of it. You should seriously study chemisty, mathematics, history, medicine and the sciences before disbelieving. With that said, I'm spiritual, not religious - if that makes sence.


I can know there are errors in the Bible without reading it because I can get that information from sources other than the Bible. If someone said there was an error in a certain book of the Bible, and you said there wasn't, then I could go and check for myself. But the errors that people bring up aren't challenged because it is easy to verify whether or not it would be true, so people don't lie about errors being there in the first place. It is, after all, the most popular book in the world.

As for studying the sciences before choosing to become a disbeliever, scientists are far more atheistic than the general population for a reason.


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## jaketrie (Dec 17, 2007)

dalgoda said:


> everyone is entitled to their opinions.
> like take the color red. nobody sees it the same.We all just agree that what we call red is red and that is that. it really is a silly debate. What else do we have to do in life tho.Breed eat sleep and oh yea ....Smoke Pot
> Peace


good point man


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 17, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> Because you guys are scared to, you know deep down in your sould God exists.


 
I'm not afraid to murder. I just don't see the need.


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## mastakoosh (Dec 17, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> I'm not afraid to murder. I just don't see the need.


 im not afraid either, cuz i killed a man in reno just to watch him die.


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## edro (Dec 18, 2007)

and the world is flat..eyes wide open..a greater intelligence, probably, higher power, possible....great father on high?...bullshit

edro


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 18, 2007)

mastakoosh said:


> im not afraid either, cuz i killed a man in reno just to watch him die.


 
lol!! You baaaaad!!


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## potpimp (Dec 18, 2007)

Pearls before swine


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## FilthyFletch (Dec 18, 2007)

There is a relationship between the bible and weed though even though there are no gods...Im pretty sure some guy wrote this book called the bible right. He writes it and is hittinga fat as bowl he then tells his buddy "Dude you should read this book its crazy as hell and will freak your mind"...so his buddy lights up goes on a hill and reads it and comes back to town..mind blown by the whoa what if that really happened"..he gives it to his buddy and so on.The book becomes a huge smash as the stoners pass it around.Then the stories and legends follw about how its true cuz this guys friend was dating this guy named jesus who could do this thing with water...and that became the first book on the best seller list...puff puff thats how I see it anyways... There is no heaven or hell its how you live your life while your heart beats you make your life and its happeneing you personal hell or heaven on earth not a spiritual place but a place you create by your choices and doings..Live with your choices and choose well..now wheres my bong


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## tckfui (Dec 18, 2007)

thats what I've been trying to say 8 )
and just to throw this in there, acording to some science doctor guy in popular science magazine there is a twenty somthing percent chance, that the world, and the universe as we know it is just a computer program created by a way advanced civoliztion that wanted to make a computer program to see how they evolved.


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## FilthyFletch (Dec 18, 2007)

puff~~~puff~~~QQ...damn that confirms my thoughts we are the SIMS


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## tckfui (Dec 18, 2007)

haha!!! the other 2 options they said didnt even make sense to me... they wernt even option persay, more arguments as to why we are a computer simulation. his three options he said were either we will all die before we develop computers advanced enough to run programs that advanced, or we will have the technology and just say why waist our time doing that? and finaly an advanced civolization already did this, and we are the product... so I dont get it I think hes wrong... why couldnt aliens make the program to see how they evolved... that has nothing to do with us... I'll stop


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## FilthyFletch (Dec 18, 2007)

I am getting so scared man stop.....gurgle gurgle pffftttt..bong hit to the dome


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## mastakoosh (Dec 18, 2007)

well i guess we will have to decide which pill to take. is lawrence fishburne gonna help us? is the oracle gonna make cookies? mmmm peanut butter cookies with hershey's kisses.


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## tckfui (Dec 18, 2007)

HAHA I think were on our own for this one... I better start baking the cookies!
I dont know... I would have to give them props if we were a program... I wish I could just program some weed!!!... wait I WOULD BE PISSED!!!!!!! I'de be like you fucker you made me do all this shit for NOTHING!!!!

haha I love the boondocks great show! charly murphy is hysterical!!!!!!!


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## preoQpydDlusion (Dec 19, 2007)

Garden Knowm said:


> If you stop believing, you will finally KNOW.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...





Garden Knowm said:


> one final note... we are all the same creature.. just because you can't see your ass.. does not mean that it is NOT you.... go ahead.. kill your neighbor.. see hoe it feels.. you might as well staple your balls to the floor...
> 
> ...
> 
> iloveyou


i find it interesting when christians speak of not being able to stand to see the face of god

i've never seen my own face


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 19, 2007)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> How does it feel to know absolutley everything...... ROFL you dont know me or what i feel....


 
I dont know you and I dont know everything. However I am glad that you can laugh at all this bullshit.


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## pencap (Dec 19, 2007)

I am my own god..I am my own religion, I am my own government..........
I own myself~~~
I do not persuade you,
I do not represent you
I do not Tax you........
I am ME~
But I will throw down if you try to take myself from me~~~~~

I have my "OWN" language also..
(ps...how do you spell own?)
Can I use YOUR dictionary???


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## crazy-mental (Dec 19, 2007)

well said pen. own laws are the best. then youve only got yourself to answer to.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 19, 2007)

I believe I need a joint.


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 20, 2007)

Yes... the bullshit needs to end.

Belief in a god or an afterlife devalues the life you have now. It always has, and even now is responsible for countless atrocities across the world.

From the rewriting of history... I mean how can people get so caught up in belief of something that isn't real, I'll never understand. Even as a child i couldn't understand it. The christians burnt many books... the inquisition, witch trials... all in the name of this god, with no appearance. We go from the sun to the elements to statues to animals... finally end up with the sun again. Let there be light. The sun is the beginning and the end.

Then they need to change with the times for fear of losing control of the people... they fear chaos, yet this is where they are leading us anyway.

When you talk to a god, you are talking to yourself. Your true self. The 'real' you... not the guy you advertise, but the real self. We are all gods. The only way forward is for the rest of mankind to realise the truth.


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## suicidesamurai (Dec 20, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Yes... the bullshit needs to end.
> 
> Belief in a god or an afterlife devalues the life you have now. It always has, and even now is responsible for countless atrocities across the world.
> 
> ...


Religion isn't responsible for book burnings and witch trials, humans are. Although I think religion can add a bit of gas to the flames, humans are just pretty evil on our own. It's who we are. Religion is only a conduit for these aggressions. Without religion, we would do the same things in the name of something else.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 20, 2007)

Yeah I knew you would say something like that, Skunky. But, We're all entitled to are own beliefs. So, it's all good. Yes, Religion has been a plague to mankind at times. But, no one on here is killing people in the name of God. So, I think your going a little far saying 'the bullshit needs to end'. It's mankinds fault imo not religion's. If peole actually followed what their religion taught there would be no murder. That's one of the ten deadly sins. If they weren't warring over religion they would be warring over something else. That's just how humans are.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 20, 2007)

suicidesamurai said:


> Religion isn't responsible for book burnings and witch trials, humans are. Although I think religion can add a bit of gas to the flames, humans are just pretty evil on our own. It's who we are. Religion is only a conduit for these aggressions. Without religion, we would do the same things in the name of something else.


Oh shit U must of wrote that as soon as I started typing. That's exactly what I said. One of us must be a psychic. Lol


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## suicidesamurai (Dec 20, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> Oh shit U must of wrote that as soon as I started typing. That's exactly what I said. One of us must be a psychic. Lol


We aren't psychic. We are just both very smart.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 20, 2007)

I think this world is a test. If God made his presence known directly it would be too easy and everyone would get into heaven. God only wants people with good souls in heavan so we are sent here to be tested. Even Jesus was tested mightily if you remember, for those of you who read your bible. The only way to do this is for God to not make his presence known directly. But, I see evidence that proves God's exisetence everyday, you just have to be open minded...Well, this is what I think anyways


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 20, 2007)

suicidesamurai said:


> Religion isn't responsible for book burnings and witch trials, humans are. Although I think religion can add a bit of gas to the flames, humans are just pretty evil on our own. It's who we are. Religion is only a conduit for these aggressions. Without religion, we would do the same things in the name of something else.


Religion isn't responsible for book burnings... humans are... then humans are also responsible for religion and belief in magical gods. One begets the other, this is my point.

What would this something else be, that we would commit similar atrocities?

Humans are not evil, society and its love of money is. Evil is not who we are. We are both... but for 'good' to win out over 'evil'... religion and silly beliefs in magical gods must be considered ludicrous, and reported as such in the media.

death is something that we all fear, and should be feared... which is why our lives should mean everything to us.


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## potpimp (Dec 20, 2007)

There is a world of difference between "religion" and Christianity. If you want to know what Jesus (the one who said "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food." Gen. 1:29) thinks about "religion", read just ONE of the gospels and see what he thought about the pharasees and saducees, the religious leaders of the day. He called them vipers, children of the devil, hippocrates. He denounced them as evil and told them all they were in danger of hell fire. They were the only ones trying their best to kill him and only managed to do that with a paid informant, a mock trial, lying witnesses, and a judge intent on killing him any way possible. It would be easy for God to "prove" his existence but then you wouldn't have to have faith and that's what God requires, as Iblazethatkush pointed out. I'm not here to shove anything down anybodys throat, just to give my belief - as the rest of you have too - and my experience. If you don't "get it" then maybe you're not supposed to.


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## donnieosmond (Dec 20, 2007)

potpimp said:


> There is a world of difference between "religion" and Christianity. If you want to know what Jesus (the one who said "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food." Gen. 1:29) thinks about "religion", read just ONE of the gospels and see what he thought about the pharasees and saducees, the religious leaders of the day. He called them vipers, children of the devil, hippocrates. He denounced them as evil and told them all they were in danger of hell fire. They were the only ones trying their best to kill him and only managed to do that with a paid informant, a mock trial, lying witnesses, and a judge intent on killing him any way possible. It would be easy for God to "prove" his existence but then you wouldn't have to have faith and that's what God requires, as Iblazethatkush pointed out. I'm not here to shove anything down anybodys throat, just to give my belief - as the rest of you have too - and my experience. If you don't "get it" then maybe you're not supposed to.


Well said. +rep


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## mastakoosh (Dec 20, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> Well said. +rep


 i have to agree.


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## m3atwad (Dec 20, 2007)

religions bullshit all evidence points against it.
and if you dont fear death you must be insane, its the end of your existence.
you dont go to some magical place where all your dreams willl come true or any bullshit like that.
religion is the second biggest lie next to santa claus hah.
its sad but true.


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## m3atwad (Dec 20, 2007)

and one thing that really bothers me. why would god not point it out loud and clear that hes real? that would just make morrreee people believe in him... isnt that what he wants ? .. answer is cause he isnt.. sorry for all you believers out there.
if he wanted us to believe in him he wouldnt have to rely on some people being gullibe.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 20, 2007)

That is soooo TRUE!!!! Very well said!!!!






potpimp said:


> There is a world of difference between "religion" and Christianity. If you want to know what Jesus (the one who said "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food." Gen. 1:29) thinks about "religion", read just ONE of the gospels and see what he thought about the pharasees and saducees, the religious leaders of the day. He called them vipers, children of the devil, hippocrates. He denounced them as evil and told them all they were in danger of hell fire. They were the only ones trying their best to kill him and only managed to do that with a paid informant, a mock trial, lying witnesses, and a judge intent on killing him any way possible. It would be easy for God to "prove" his existence but then you wouldn't have to have faith and that's what God requires, as Iblazethatkush pointed out. I'm not here to shove anything down anybodys throat, just to give my belief - as the rest of you have too - and my experience. If you don't "get it" then maybe you're not supposed to.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 21, 2007)

Its seems the only reason this debate has lasted so long is because of selfish reasons. 'I want MY ideology to be the correct one.' is what most people seem to be perveying. Yet there is no substantial evidence in any direction. All we have is what we have read and heard, or seen if you had a little too much lsd. 
Sure Jesus was a great man and a great leader. I dont think he would want the world obsessing over him. That would be rediculous. 

I think Nelson Mandela is the next Jesus. He doesn't preach about god. He just leads by example. He is practically on his death bed, yet he travels the world doing as much good as is physically possible.


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## suicidesamurai (Dec 21, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> Its seems the only reason this debate has lasted so long is because of selfish reasons. 'I want MY ideology to be the correct one.' is what most people seem to be perveying. Yet there is no substantial evidence in any direction. All we have is what we have read and heard, or seen if you had a little too much lsd.
> Sure Jesus was a great man and a great leader. I dont think he would want the world obsessing over him. That would be rediculous.
> 
> I think Nelson Mandela is the next Jesus. He doesn't preach about god. He just leads by example. He is practically on his death bed, yet he travels the world doing as much good as is physically possible.


The way I think about it is that religious people (or just deists) have no evidence for those beliefs. It doesn't matter if I am right that a higher power doesn't exist, it matters that you believe things that can't be proven and have no evidence in their favor. If we could prove scientifically that God exists, maybe we could debate about whether he drives a Chevy or a Ford. But debating his/her/it's/their existence is largely futile.

What matters is that I don't rely on faith for my beliefs, which makes me right, not necessarily in my beliefs, but in my way of forming them.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 21, 2007)

suicidesamurai said:


> The way I think about it is that religious people (or just deists) have no evidence for those beliefs. It doesn't matter if I am right that a higher power doesn't exist, it matters that you believe things that can't be proven and have no evidence in their favor. If we could prove scientifically that God exists, maybe we could debate about whether he drives a Chevy or a Ford. But debating his/her/it's/their existence is largely futile.
> 
> What matters is that I don't rely on faith for my beliefs, which makes me right, not necessarily in my beliefs, but in my way of forming them.


 
So you form your beliefs on what you have experienced so far? 
Makes sense to me. 

Debating this topic might be futile, but it is important for the growth of the human mind. 

Never stop questioning.


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## suicidesamurai (Dec 21, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> So you form your beliefs on what you have experienced so far?
> Makes sense to me.
> 
> Debating this topic might be futile, but it is important for the growth of the human mind.
> ...


I don't base such heavy beliefs on experience, but on experimentation. Personal experience is subjective. It is valid for many things, but when it comes to believing something such as the existence of a higher power, I need evidence.


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## donnieosmond (Dec 21, 2007)

m3atwad said:


> and one thing that really bothers me. why would god not point it out loud and clear that hes real? that would just make morrreee people believe in him... isnt that what he wants ? .. answer is cause he isnt.. sorry for all you believers out there.
> if he wanted us to believe in him he wouldnt have to rely on some people being gullibe.


Because God doesn't push his beliefs on others. He wants you to have faith, hope, and most of all he wants us to love the message he is spreading. If you believe in God you should have 3 things in your life, faith, hope and love. When you get to heaven, you don't need faith because you've seen God, you don't need hope because you now know heaven is real... but you'll always need love. God doesn't want more people to believe in him just because he's there. If he all of a sudden showed up tomorrow, it would eliminate the need for faith and hope because evidence existed. He wants us to spend our lives hoping and having faith that he exists, and in return he will give us life after death. I'm sorry if you think having faith and being gullible are the same things, but that just reflects back upon you your complete lack of knowledge (and faith).


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Dec 21, 2007)

You have excellent points Donnie. But with these guy you are totally waisting your time. They will just continue to mock you and call you names and bring up "so called facts" why you shouldnt believe and shots at your intelligence for your beliefs. So just please dont waist your time...... However God Bless oyu on this holiday season and remember to celebrate the Reason for the Season!!! MERY CHRISTMAS, HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!

Be safe and take a couple of tokes for me!!!!



donnieosmond said:


> Because God doesn't push his beliefs on others. He wants you to have faith, hope, and most of all he wants us to love the message he is spreading. If you believe in God you should have 3 things in your life, faith, hope and love. When you get to heaven, you don't need faith because you've seen God, you don't need hope because you now know heaven is real... but you'll always need love. God doesn't want more people to believe in him just because he's there. If he all of a sudden showed up tomorrow, it would eliminate the need for faith and hope because evidence existed. He wants us to spend our lives hoping and having faith that he exists, and in return he will give us life after death. I'm sorry if you think having faith and being gullible are the same things, but that just reflects back upon you your complete lack of knowledge (and faith).


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## natrone23 (Dec 21, 2007)

Yeah you guys and your "Facts"


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## starchland (Dec 21, 2007)

only when im high  otherwise fuck all that bs


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## suicidesamurai (Dec 22, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> I'm sorry if you think having faith and being gullible are the same things, but that just reflects back upon you your complete lack of knowledge (and faith).


You have no knowledge of God, don't pretend you do. All you have is faith, which is more a weakness than anything.


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 22, 2007)

suicidesamurai said:


> You have no knowledge of God, don't pretend you do. All you have is faith, which is more a weakness than anything.


Sorry, I can't agree with that last part. It totally depends on the person and where you are comfortable in life. All they have is faith, true. But all you have is a lack of faith. Same thing, no? Depends on how you wanna look at it i guess, perspective is reality and perspective is subject to change in each person as an individual as well as culture and society as a whole.


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## mopsy (Dec 22, 2007)

well I have faith, thats why I grow my own medicene, I don't like to line the dealers pockets, any way remember what christmas is all about, and have faith.


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## nomad (Dec 22, 2007)

i do not believe in god
i do not try an talk people into not believing so why cannot believers do me the same courtesy and stop tryin to make me believe when it will never ever happen


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## suicidesamurai (Dec 22, 2007)

WhatAmIDoing said:


> Sorry, I can't agree with that last part. It totally depends on the person and where you are comfortable in life. All they have is faith, true. But all you have is a lack of faith. Same thing, no? Depends on how you wanna look at it i guess, perspective is reality and perspective is subject to change in each person as an individual as well as culture and society as a whole.


Having faith means you don't have to think critically about the things that need critical thought the most.

_Where do we come from?_

Invisible being in the sky did it.
_
What is the meaning of life?_

To be nice to people so I can go to Heaven for all eternity.

_Why is there evil in the world?_

God lets little kids get raped and murdered for His own reasons which are beyond our comprehension. So just keep the faith, or you'll go to Hell. And even though little kids are raped and murdered, if you survive a car crash, God saved you for a reason so be sure to thank Him but don't ask why he allowed the little kids to be tortured for so long before finally being put out of their misery. We don't know how He works exactly, so don't pray and ask Him why he let the little kids be raped and murdered, that isn't for you to know. And he is really busy so doesn't have a very good record of answering prayers, anyway. But if you ever ask Him to make your life better in some way, like to mend a fault in your marriage, and that happens, praise Him. If your spouse dies shortly after in a car crash, just know it was their time. God works in mysterious ways.


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## donnieosmond (Dec 22, 2007)

Whatever you say bud


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 22, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> Whatever you say bud


True that. I'm done with this thread. I never knew atheists were such a hateful bunch. I thought this could be an enlightening adult conversation...I guess I should of known better.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 22, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> True that. I'm done with this thread. I never knew atheists were such a hateful bunch. I thought this could be an enlightening adult conversation...I guess I should of known better.


You should have known better, but you didn't. 

I am atheist and I certainly don't hate you pal. You created one hell of an entertaining and thought provoking thread.


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## natrone23 (Dec 22, 2007)

whats so hateful


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 22, 2007)

natrone23 said:


> whats so hateful


Yeah you been cool Moutain Spliff. I just don't like the people who says things like people who believe in God are dumbasses or religion is for weak-minded people or santa and God are the same person, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.


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## natrone23 (Dec 22, 2007)

I think is very good and thought provoking thread. I think we should be able criticize each other beliefs just as we would if we were dicussing politics. Religion should not be out of bounds of discourse. And sure some people might go a little far call names a little bit and you might be offended..........but don't be offended by the discussion. I think the majority of this thread as been rather civil. If beliefs are True then their should be no fear of others challenging those beliefs


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## natrone23 (Dec 22, 2007)

why is calling Santa and God the same guy "hateful"? Now I could understand if God was offended.............But why are you offended


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 22, 2007)

natrone23 said:


> I think is very good and thought provoking thread. I think we should be able criticize each other beliefs just as we would if we were dicussing politics. Religion should not be out of bounds of discourse. And sure some people might go a little far call names a little bit and you might be offended..........but don't be offended by the discussion. I think the majority of this thread as been rather civil. If beliefs are True then their should be no fear of others challenging those beliefs


I guess your right. But, for people who believe whole-heartedly and love God dearly, such as myself. Saying something deragatory about God is like saying, 'Fuck yo momma' lol. So I do tend to get a bit offended. But, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. So, if you believe God and santa are the same guy then that is just your opinion and it's all good. I'll try not to be so sensitive. Let the conversation continue


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## ViRedd (Dec 22, 2007)

God and Santa are the same guy? How could that be when Santa is make believe and God is real? 

Vi


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 22, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> I guess your right. But, for people who believe whole-heartedly and love God dearly, such as myself. Saying something deragatory about God is like saying, 'Fuck yo momma' lol. So I do tend to get a bit offended. But, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. So, if you believe God and santa are the same guy then that is just your opinion and it's all good. I'll try not to be so sensitive. Let the conversation continue


 
LOL

A couple days ago I was considering turning this thread into a yo momma thread.  but yo momma told me not to.


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## natrone23 (Dec 22, 2007)

yeah God and Santa Claus is same guy........but I wasn't talking about your God............just some foreigners God


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 22, 2007)

natrone23 said:


> yeah God and Santa Claus is same guy........but I wasn't talking about your God............just some foreigners God


Haha lmao. Thanks for clearing that up Natrone...I appreciate that


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## suicidesamurai (Dec 23, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> Yeah you been cool Moutain Spliff. I just don't like the people who says things like people who believe in God are dumbasses or religion is for weak-minded people or santa and God are the same person, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.


I don't think religious people are dumbasses and I don't hate them. The members of my family are very religious people. I just think there are better ways of deciding things than relying on faith. The example I used of little kids was crude but still valid. When those things happen to little kids, many people just think it is God's will. Theologically and philosophically, that is the 'problem of evil'. The problem of if a benevolent higher power exists, how could he let those things happen? Does he just not care? Is it free will? etc.


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## nomad (Dec 23, 2007)

were did god come from


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 23, 2007)

nomad said:


> were did god come from


 
You are not supposed to ask questions like that...


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## donnieosmond (Dec 23, 2007)

nomad said:


> were did god come from


We can only partially comprehend the notion of God's existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: "without beginning or end"; "eternal"; "infinite", etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: _" . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God"_ (Psalm 90:2). And, _"Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting" _(Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn't. He always was. To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people's lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is "beyond the chart." He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been. Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.


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## m3atwad (Dec 23, 2007)

god and santa are the same person cause there both lies


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## closet.cult (Dec 23, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> We can only partially comprehend the notion of God's existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: "without beginning or end"; "eternal"; "infinite", etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: _" . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God"_ (Psalm 90:2). And, _"Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting" _(Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn't. He always was. To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people's lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is "beyond the chart." He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been. Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.


no offence, but this is load of baloney. you're attempting to make an irrashional idea rational, if not in our minds, then on some supernatural greater level that we can't understand.

it is a cop out. because other then an old book of fables, you have no information to verify that this non-linear, irrashional god exists. it ammounts to us taking your word on it, because you've read an old book.

so why dont you believe in any of the other gods of old books? like allah or ramose or ra from the book of the dead? you believe what you believe *probably* because your parents believed it. and your concept of god has as much likelyhood of being correct as any other god now, or from a past civilization.

i day nop offence because i was once in your shoes and heard people tell me these things and never meditated on the possible truths of it all. untill i studied the history of ALL religions and the natural history of all civilizations i never knew how wrong i was. 

I was just spitting out the same answers to god questions that they explained to me. is that was you are doing?


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## m3atwad (Dec 23, 2007)

dont ask important questions because you might discover the truth behind the so called "god".


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## m3atwad (Dec 23, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> Because God doesn't push his beliefs on others. He wants you to have faith, hope, and most of all he wants us to love the message he is spreading. If you believe in God you should have 3 things in your life, faith, hope and love. When you get to heaven, you don't need faith because you've seen God, you don't need hope because you now know heaven is real... but you'll always need love. God doesn't want more people to believe in him just because he's there. If he all of a sudden showed up tomorrow, it would eliminate the need for faith and hope because evidence existed. He wants us to spend our lives hoping and having faith that he exists, and in return he will give us life after death. I'm sorry if you think having faith and being gullible are the same things, but that just reflects back upon you your complete lack of knowledge (and faith).


im sorry that you believe in bullshit donnie but your answer to my question made no sense. if god wants us to have faith in him. believe in him. he would show us that he exists. not hide. so yeah no. 
Religion is the same thing as santa claus. you believe in it as a child because thats what your parents and society tell you to do but once you realize its not logical you know its fake.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 23, 2007)

I don't think God is that egotistical that he needs everyone to believe in and worship him. He wants that, yes, but doesn't need it. That's why he leaves us to our own freewill. You don't think it is possible at all that this life is just a test to see where you go in the next life? And to make the test work God does not reveal himself to man because then everybody would 'pass' the test. God can't reveal himself to man if he wants to see man's true soul.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 23, 2007)

"A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah."


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## Garden Knowm (Dec 23, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> We can only partially comprehend the notion of God's existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: "without beginning or end"; "eternal"; "infinite", etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: _" . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God"_ (Psalm 90:2). And, _"Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting" _(Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn't. He always was. To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people's lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is "beyond the chart." He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been. Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.



very well said..

so what good is the mind? what is the mind really good for? is the mind good for anything?

TIME and THOUGHT are synonymous.

Let me repeat that...

THOUGHTS are TIME

ONCE again...

THINKING or THOUGHT actually is the same concept as TIME...

When ONE stops thinking, ONE experiences GOD...

The mind can not comprehend GOD, BUT it can POINT at god..

GOD is SPACE
GOD is STILLNESS
GOD is EMPTINESS


GOD is that moment between thoughts...

How does ONE experience *stillness?

through a "PRACTICE"

*iloveyou


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## Garden Knowm (Dec 23, 2007)

GOD has NO message!

GOD is NOTHING.... accept NOTHING NESS..

iloveyou

THERE is no such thing as morality.. morality is MIND... mind is NOTHING except the story between ONE's ears..

There is NO truth in the mind, there is no way to worship SPACE or GOD. 

iloveyou


SO then, what is GOD... GOD is SPACE


And how does ONE KNOW GOD is real?

One simply stops thinking, and what ONE has LEFT .. IS GOD... and one will NEVER observe GOD or HEAR GOD, or SMELL GOD... BUT one can "become god".. the same that one BECOMES HAPPY.... or that ONE becomes EXCITED... Once one STOPS thinking.. ONE actually becomes SPACE... becomes STILLNESS...

THIS is GOD...


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## donnieosmond (Dec 23, 2007)

m3atwad said:


> god and santa are the same person cause there both lies


Did your parents lie to you for 15 years that Santa exists? Did you sneak from your room one faithful Christmas eve to see mommy smooching with a suspiciously thin santa who just happened to look identical to your father? All of your comments seem to stem from some repressed and deep seeded psychological trauma involving Santa Claus.


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## Garden Knowm (Dec 23, 2007)

If this does not make sense to you, then let me ask you this...

Is a CHAIR real?
What is a CHAIR?

A "chair" is a concept.. a made up term to signify somewhere you park your ass.

A CONCEPT!!!!

A CONCEPT...

DO you understand that CONCEPTs are not real? GOD is not real... GOD is a concept..

SO, GOD is WHAT? GOD is something that the mind can not understand... The mind can only understand concepts..

I hope this helps

iloveyou

When ONE experiences GOD, ONE begins to LOVE everything.. BECAUSE, GOD is everything, and EVERYTHING LOVES itself..

iloveyou


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## donnieosmond (Dec 23, 2007)

Garden Knowm said:


> If this does not make sense to you, then let me ask you this...
> 
> Is a CHAIR real?
> What is a CHAIR?
> ...


Yes, I agree with everything that you said right there. There is no way to understand the concept of God unless you experience Him. In the meantime, all of my thoughts are merely hypothesis. And I'm OK with that.


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## donnieosmond (Dec 23, 2007)

closet.cult said:


> no offence, but this is load of baloney. you're attempting to make an irrashional idea rational, if not in our minds, then on some supernatural greater level that we can't understand.
> 
> it is a cop out. because other then an old book of fables, you have no information to verify that this non-linear, irrashional god exists. it ammounts to us taking your word on it, because you've read an old book.
> 
> ...


I am saying what I say because I believe in God. I don't know why and in all other ventures in life I think for myself. There is something deep inside me that says believe in God and I do because I feel that it is the right thing to do. I have not vigorously studied the concepts behind every religion but then, other religions do not effect me. I don't seek answers that aren't there. I just believe. If that makes me dumb, or misinformed, or naive to everyone else, that's ok. Because anyone who does not believe in God has their own hypothesis which is equally correct or incorrect in comparison to my own beliefs. So no matter how the picture about me is painted, I'm just as correct in my personal beliefs as the next guy.


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## m3atwad (Dec 23, 2007)

GOD is fake =] lolz sorry guys i know the truth is hard to swallow
anyway enjoy your lives and be good little boys so you can go to heavan =)


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## Garden Knowm (Dec 23, 2007)

m3atwad said:


> GOD is fake =] lolz sorry guys i know the truth is hard to swallow
> anyway enjoy your lives and be good little boys so you can go to heavan =)


saying GOD is FAKE is the same as saying GOD is not fake...

up is nothing without down
fast is nothing without slow..

fake is nothing without real..

SO what is GOD?

Can you say something that CAN stand on its own? Can you say something that does not require the opposite TO ALSO be TRUE..

when you can say something that can stand on its OWN you are POINTING at GOD...

YOU say GOD is FAKE because you belivei something is also REAL... 
Who would you be without thought? 
Stop thinking.. I bet then YOU would HVAE a different perspective..

iloveyou

and YES, GOD is FAKE


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

m3atwad said:


> GOD is fake =] lolz sorry guys i know the truth is hard to swallow
> anyway enjoy your lives and be good little boys so you can go to heavan =)


 Stop acting like you know the 'truth'. You come across like you have a big ego. Science cannot explain everything in the world. Just because you don't have concrete proof of God's existence it doesn't mean he does not exist.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah."


I don't need proof. I believe God exists.


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## donnieosmond (Dec 24, 2007)

hey he's m3atwad. he's as close to a real god as we'll ever know. 






and santa isn't real either.


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## starchland (Dec 24, 2007)

closet.cult said:


> no offence, but this is load of baloney. you're attempting to make an irrashional idea rational, if not in our minds, then on some supernatural greater level that we can't understand.
> 
> it is a cop out. because other then an old book of fables, you have no information to verify that this non-linear, irrashional god exists. it ammounts to us taking your word on it, because you've read an old book.
> 
> ...


of course its baloney its donnie osmond!


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## starchland (Dec 24, 2007)

Garden Knowm said:


> saying GOD is FAKE is the same as saying GOD is not fake...
> 
> up is nothing without down
> fast is nothing without slow..
> ...


interesting point. Now im trying to rationalize how god doesnt exist in my world


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## starchland (Dec 24, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> Stop acting like you know the 'truth'. You come across like you have a big ego. Science cannot explain everything in the world. Just because you don't have concrete proof of God's existence it doesn't mean he does not exist.


science cannot explain so man makes this 'god' character as a scapegoat because humans cant take the ego blow to say we dont know this or that. for example how the world started, so we make up a character, 'god' he did it _all_.


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## donnieosmond (Dec 24, 2007)

Yeah... I'm pretty sure religion was here long before actual designated scientists were officially studying how humans were created.


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 24, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> Yeah... I'm pretty sure religion was here long before actual designated scientists were officially studying how humans were created.


I thought religion already knew how man was created?

Some magical guy did it all. 

If I told you that I believed leprechauns existed, and that I pray to the king leprechaun every night... wouldn't you laugh? That's how I feel about people that believe in a god. 

I'm not unsure, i KNOW there are no gods nor fairies nor leprechauns. I love my life, and can accept the TRUTH no matter how painful it is. So should you all.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

I don't get why you guys think we believe in God b/c we're scared of the truth. What is the truth? That we just get thrown in the ground when we die. I'm not scared of death. This is an evil, fucked up world. I will be glad to leave it. It has nothing to do with fear of the unknown, at least not for me. No matter what happens when I die it can't be worse than this world.
edit- Oh yeah, unless I go to hell, of course. But, I try to be a good person so I'm not really afraid of that, either.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 24, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> Yeah... I'm pretty sure religion was here long before actual designated scientists were officially studying how humans were created.


 
Sorry donnie, but humans have been wondering where they came from as soon as they became conscious. Around the time religion was being created humans weren't intelligent enough to be the so called scientists we have today. So they they kinda made it all up as they went along.


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## Home_Grown (Dec 24, 2007)

I am a deep atheist.

Here is some food for thought.


Why does most of the Old Testament teach that there is no afterlife (see Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, for example), while later Old Testament writings and the New Testament do?
How can God possibly be both omniscient and omnipotent? 

Omniscience means that He knows all that is, was or ever will be, and He knows how He is going to intervene in the future. But if He already knows how He is going to intervene, then He cannot change His mind, which means He is not omnipotent.
So God is real. OK. So what is the difference between God and Reality? Why not keep it simple and call it reality?
The Bible is clear on the age of the Earth - between 4,000 to 8,000 years old. Please explain this in view of the scientific evidence that dinosaurs' bones are many millions of years old?
Doesn't it scare you that we are reflective of God's image?
Why do you think God appreciates being worshiped?
What do you think that says about God's nature?
Laypeople and Theologians agree that God is beyond human comprehension, that we cannot know his nature. Then how come that a very long list of attributes is ascribed to him (like being a personal entity, male, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, omni benevolent, being a 'trinity' etc)
If we can indeed know nothing of God (for those 'mystics' who think there is a God, but deny believing in any of the above things literally - basically those who believe in an unspecified 'higher power' and call it God), how can we say of something that it exists while not ascribing any attributes to it (it being unknowable)? I could say "Grzwgllk" exists... you would ask "What is that supposed to be", where upon I would say "As it is beyond my comprehension, I cannot ascribe any attributes to it". A claim of existence of a certain entity is meaningless without specifying precise attributes of that entity.
Why would a god who did not allow his own servants to touch the Ark of the Covenant (under penalty of death) allow himself to be ridiculed and crucified by enemies (Romans) of his own people?
Since God killed something like 2,700,000 people in the Bible, and Satan only killed 10... How do you know you're worshiping the right one? Because he's the scariest?
Almost all believers I know hate listening to the sermon; attending bible studies, practice for the choir, singing the never ending batteries of singspiration songs, etc. Many suffer these out of habit, out of fear of eternal condemnation or being ostracized. Why is it that they all want to go to heaven so they can do absolutely nothing else other than exactly these activities which they hate while on earth? I should attribute this question to Clemens though...
Jesus is considered both the son of God and God himself. We are referred to in the bible as God's children and also brides of Christ. Is jesus my father, my brother, my son or my husband?
If the bible is true, then in regard to Noah's ark, how did millions of species of plants and animals survive on a wooden boat at sea for a year? Consider the feeding and waste management problems without adequate sanitation, ventilation and refrigeration.
In this vein, how did plant life get re-established with such diversity and so quickly worldwide when a biblical flood would have destroyed all plant life from salinity, deep water pressure effects and prolonged immersion under the sea without sunlight?
How did the earth get repopulated with very habitat specific animals following Noah's ark? For example, how did Koala's find their way from the Middle East to Australia with intervening oceans and no eucalypt trees? How did penguins survive the tropical and equatorial heat to migrate thousands of kilometres (some of it across desert) to Antarctica?
How can you prove that Noah's ark is true and not merely a fable?
Given that many parts of the bible are patently false (as shown by modern science and historical studies), such as the 6000 year old earth made in 7 days, Adam and eve story, Noah's ark fable, and many contradictory and incorrect passages, how can you treat this book as the basis for having a faith system and leading your life according to it?
 Fuck God, religion and all that brainwashing propaganda dogma!

Merry Christmas fuckers... hehehe.


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 24, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> I don't get why you guys think we believe in God b/c we're scared of the truth. What is the truth? That we just get thrown in the ground when we die.


Yes... just like the insects you so easily crush beneath your boots, our lives have exactly the same value. Do ants go to heaven? What about chimpanzees?


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Yes... just like the insects you so easily crush beneath your boots, our lives have exactly the same value. Do ants go to heaven? What about chimpanzees?


You have to have a soul to go to an afterlife. I doubt ants do, maybe chimpanzees. But, you missed the point... Ppl think God was invented b/c ppl are scared of death. I'm not scared of that. It would be just like taking a long ass nap you don't wake up from. Doesn't sound too bad to me...And I don't care how the Earth or universe was created. This is not what causes me to believe...I believe for many of my own personal reasons that I would not be able to explain here.


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## Home_Grown (Dec 24, 2007)

God was invented because no one could explain how the earth was created.

People STILL believe in god for comfort. If there is no god what happens to them? Alot of other people "believe" in-case there is a god, they don't want to go to hell.

People also believe in God because of personal "miracles". Little do they know is that there is probably some scientific evidence to support the fact that it was not a miracle.

As I said, God and religion is nothing but a Dogma. If you read the points I stated in my last post it should be clear to you that there is serious doubt as to the existence of God.

Also, many religious people look down on atheists. The fact is, most religious people are 99.9% atheists themselves. What if you are a Christian, you die and you find out that there is no such thing as the Christian God. Only the Muslim God Allah, your still going to hell!

Out of all the invented God's, how do you know that YOUR god is the REAL god? eh?


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

The muslims believe in the same God as Christians. There is only one true God. Everyone who believes in God, no matter their faith, will not go to hell.


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## Home_Grown (Dec 24, 2007)

LOL! Tell a Muslim that! Christians are infidels. Have you not read the Qu'ran?

This goes to show how educated you are on the topic of "God".


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

A minority of muslims think Christians are infidels. And yes they believe in the same God as Christians. What are you retarded?


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

Please stay out of my thread Homegrown. The title of the thread is do you believe in God. Not 'tell me everything you find wrong with God'.


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## Home_Grown (Dec 24, 2007)

Are you fucking retarded?

The Qu'ran states that Christians are infidels!

"Who does Islam consider an "infidel"? The answer is found in the Qur'an, Surah 5:72 and 73. "Infidels now are they who say, 'God is the Messiah, Son of Mary.'  They surely are Infidels who say, 'God is the third of three.'" You are classified as an "infidel" if you believe that Jesus is God incarnated, that he is the son of Mary and if you believe in the Trinity.
___· How are "infidels" to be treated? Qur'an, Surah 47:4: "When ye encounter the Infidels, strike off their heads till ye have made a great slaughter among them and the rest make fast the fetters."
___· *Is Islam a "sister faith"? Qur'an. Surah 5:51a: "O ye who believe take not the Jews or the Christians for your friends or protectors. They are but friends and protectors of each other."
___ · **Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God but by different names? Definitely not! One of the many differences is seen in how these gods instruct their followers to treat those with whom they differ."* 

Source - COMMENTARY: Take a broader look at Islam and the Qu'ran


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## Home_Grown (Dec 24, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> Please stay out of my thread Homegrown. The title of the thread is do you believe in God. Not 'tell me everything you find wrong with God'.


I do not believe in God.

Everything I find wrong about God is God himself. There is no such thing.

The truth shall set you free.

Show me 1 scientific evidential fact that God exists.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

_"A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah."_


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

I don't give a fuck what you say. Jews, Christians, and Muslims all believe in the same God...................................God cannot be proved by science. You must have faith which you have none.

Humans are spirtual and scientific beings. What's wrong with ppl like you is you never explore your spirtual side.


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## Home_Grown (Dec 24, 2007)

Your quoting a fallacious book that has no scientific evidential backing?

Good one!

"The Bible is clear on the age of the Earth - between 4,000 to 8,000 years old. Please explain this in view of the scientific evidence that dinosaurs' bones are many millions of years old!"

I have no faith because faith has no merit.

"I don't give a fuck what you say. Jews, Christians, and Muslims all believe in the same God" - Your so wrong it's not even funny!

Why don't you actually read the Bible, understand the book and religion and then actually post here with some understanding of it cos right now you are sounding like an uneducated fool who believes in God without any understanding of the correct meaning of God.

Humans don't have a spiritual side, what's there to explore? We are made of of genes, molecules..not spirits!


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## closet.cult (Dec 24, 2007)

Garden Knowm said:


> If this does not make sense to you, then let me ask you this...
> 
> Is a CHAIR real?
> What is a CHAIR?
> ...


it is tough to argue with any of these posts GK. they makes sense and are deep and yet simple. it must be nice in your hed. it looks like you have a lot of love.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

Home_Grown said:


> Your quoting a fallacious book that has no scientific evidential backing?
> 
> Good one!
> 
> "The Bible is clear on the age of the Earth - between 4,000 to 8,000 years old. Please explain this in view of the scientific evidence that dinosaurs' bones are many millions of years old!"


Your just proving your ignorance further. You obviously do not study spirtual matters, so why are you here? No where in the bible does it state the age of the earth or when God created it....Show me one bible passage that says the Earth is between 4,000 and 8,000 years old.


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## closet.cult (Dec 24, 2007)

the muslims do believe in the same god as the christians. in fact, he is the same god as the jewish religion too. but they themselves do not realize it because they split along time ago.

but all three religions claim the same patriarchs: abraham, isaak & jacob. so how could it be?

simple. it happens today all the time. one religious leader in a small town gets very fundamental or very lax and calls his church a new name. at first the basic beliefs are the same, but give it hundreds of years and it looks like a completely different religion. some advocates moderation and the other advocates suicide bombings.

if ALL these people could somehow realize their roots and realize that we're ALL related and none of this religions means shit maybe we could achieve peace.


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## Home_Grown (Dec 24, 2007)

"Biblical Age of Earth by David V. Bassett, M.S. 
Beginning with the archeological landmark event of the fall of Jerusalem (which has now been corrected to 588 B.C., instead of 586-587 B.C.) and counting backwards the prophesied number of years between this event and the division of Solomon's kingdom (390 yrs. + 40 yrs., according to Ezekiel 4:4-7), brings us to 1018 B.C.
From the end of Solomon's 40-year reign to the start of the Temple in the 4th year of his reign takes us back another 37 years to 1055 B.C.
From the start of Solomon's Temple "in the 480th year" (1 Kings 6:1) back to the Exodus from Egypt (hence 479 years previous) brings us to near 1534 B.C.
From the Exodus out of Egypt to Abraham's entering Canaan from Haran was exactly 430 years to the day (Gen 12:10/ Exodus 12:40/ Gal 3:17), thus around 1964 B.C.
Since Abraham entered Canaan at age 75 (Gen 12:4), he was born approximately 2039 B.C.
From Abraham's birth to Noah's grandson (Shem's son), Arpachshad's birth, 2 years after the Flood started, was 290 years (Gen 11:11-26), this places the onset of the Flood at around 2331 B.C. [definitely 4,300-4,400 years ago].
The genealogy of Genesis 5:3-32 precludes any gaps due to its tight chronological structure and gives us 1,656 years between Creation and the Flood, thus bringing Creation Week back to near 3987 B.C. or approximately 4000 B.C.
Therefore, the biblical age of the Earth (using Scripture itself as a guide) is 6,000 years !! Mankind did not evolve 4 million years ago on an Earth which is 4.5 billion years old in a universe which was "big-banged" into existence 18-20 billion years in the distant past. Jesus Christ, the Creator Incarnate, said He made mankind male and female in the beginning (Mark 10:6), and that when the heavens and the earth were commanded into being (Gen 1:1), they "stood up together" (Isa 48:13) not billions of years apart !!"



You starting to see the "light"?


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

Home_Grown said:


> "Biblical Age of Earth by David V. Bassett, M.S.
> Beginning with the archeological landmark event of the fall of Jerusalem (which has now been corrected to 588 B.C., instead of 586-587 B.C.) and counting backwards the prophesied number of years between this event and the division of Solomon's kingdom (390 yrs. + 40 yrs., according to Ezekiel 4:4-7), brings us to 1018 B.C.
> From the end of Solomon's 40-year reign to the start of the Temple in the 4th year of his reign takes us back another 37 years to 1055 B.C.
> From the start of Solomon's Temple "in the 480th year" (1 Kings 6:1) back to the Exodus from Egypt (hence 479 years previous) brings us to near 1534 B.C.
> ...


I asked for a biblical passage containing the age of the earth. Not mans interpertation of how old the earth is.....Yes I see the light. Sadly, you never will.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

closet.cult said:


> the muslims do believe in the same god as the christians. in fact, he is the same god as the jewish religion too. but they themselves do not realize it because they split along time ago.
> 
> but all three religions claim the same patriarchs: abraham, isaak & jacob. so how could it be?
> 
> ...


Yes. Very true. All religions are traced back to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

You get it now homegrown?


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## Home_Grown (Dec 24, 2007)

He uses the actual Bible to mathematically calculate the biblical age of the planet Earth, according to the Bible itself, delusionist!

Ha! If you want to play it that way then. 

Would we still have the Twin Towers if we did not have religion? 

Answer, Of Course!

I've read the Qu'ran, they do *NOT* believe in the same Judea-Christian God.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

Dude, you've never read the bible. You have no idea wtf you are talking about. Anybody can use google and find evidence of anything they want. I bet you I could google a source that 'mathematicaly tells the biblical age of the planet according to the bible.'...That was one man's interpertation on the biblical age of the planet.... Like I said b4 get the fuck out my thread!!


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## Home_Grown (Dec 24, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> Dude, you've never read the bible. You have no idea wtf you are talking about. Anybody can use google and find evidence of anything they want. I bet you I could google a source that 'mathematicaly tells the biblical age of the planet according to the bible.'...That was one man's interpertation on the biblical age of the planet.... Like I said b4 get the fuck out my thread!!


I'm sorry to say, but that is not 1 man's hypothesis of the age of the Earth.

It is scientifically proven that the Earth is Billions of years old. It is also proven by mathematical interpretation of the Biblical scriptures that the Old and New Testament believe planet Earth to be around 6,000 years old.

I was once a devout Christian, I have read the Bible, New and Old Testament, I have also read the Qu'ran/Koran. I am well educated on the topic of religion and God. I can tell you now that scientific evidence supports Darwinians' theory of evolution.

Don't be mad, when you die (God Forbid!) you'll realise I'm right


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

Home_Grown said:


> I've read the Qu'ran, they do *NOT* believe in the same Judea-Christian God.


Wrong. They all believe in the same God.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

Why should I have to prove God's existence to you?
Can you give me one piece of irrefutable evidence that proves God does not exist.


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## nongreenthumb (Dec 24, 2007)

play nicely children


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## Home_Grown (Dec 24, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> Why should I have to prove God's existence to you?
> Can you give me one piece of irrefutable evidence that proves God does not exist.


There is no irrefutable evidence to suggest God does not exist or exist. However, there is much scientific evidence to suggest that he does not exist and much much much evidence to support Darwinians theory of evolution.

Obviously your dead set he exists and I am pretty much dead set he does not exist. One day however you will realise.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

Home_Grown said:


> There is no irrefutable evidence to suggest God does not exist or exist. However, there is much scientific evidence to suggest that he does not exist and much much much evidence to support Darwinians theory of evolution.
> 
> Obviously your dead set he exists and I am pretty much dead set he does not exist. One day however you will realise.


Your too stuck up on the science of it all......According to science we shouldn't exist....The big bang theory that an atom appeared out of thin air and exploded creating the universe and everything we see today? I thought energy cannot be created or destroyed...Is the idea of a God really more far-fetched than the big bang theory?


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

Home_Grown said:


> One day however you will realise.


I'm afraid that quote applies to you not me. If I'm wrong I will never know it because I'll be dead in the ground. If your wrong you will realise it because you will burn in the pits of hell for all eternity. (Not trying to offend. Atheists might get into heaven too. I don't know how God works but I would hope as long as they're good people)


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## Home_Grown (Dec 24, 2007)

We could go around in circles here mate. But to answer your question, yes it is alot more far fetched.

According to Science we do exist and should exist, I've never read anything to the contrary.

And yes, I do believe in the scientific reasoning of it all. It's called being a Realist, Humanist, Rationalist.

But hey, fuck it. Let's have a toke.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

Home_Grown said:


> We could go around in circles here mate. But to answer your question, yes it is alot more far fetched.
> 
> According to Science we do exist and should exist, I've never read anything to the contrary.
> 
> ...


Sounds good to me...I got to take off anyways. Been nice talking to ya tho...Stop by anytime, I would love to dive deeper into this subject.

But here's some food for thought I'll leave you with. According to science energy cannot be created...Well then where did the energy from the big bang come from?...Either this is all a dream.... or a being more powerful than ourselves played a part.


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## donnieosmond (Dec 24, 2007)

I didn't read any of the rest of the posts on this thread. But if you're celebrating Christmas this year and don't believe in God; you're a damn hypocrite. So if you don't believe him make sure you aren't celebrating his birthday. It'd be like the Jews celebrating Christmas. Doesn't happen. And I guarantee at least 2/3 people posting on this thread are going to celebrate tonight or tomorrow with presents and such. Just send them back to the store.


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## Home_Grown (Dec 24, 2007)

Something I'll research into and get back to you on that.

Been a pleasure, sir.


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## Home_Grown (Dec 24, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> I didn't read any of the rest of the posts on this thread. But if you're celebrating Christmas this year and don't believe in God; you're a damn hypocrite. So if you don't believe him make sure you aren't celebrating his birthday. It'd be like the Jews celebrating Christmas. Doesn't happen. And I guarantee at least 2/3 people posting on this thread are going to celebrate tonight or tomorrow with presents and such. Just send them back to the store.


Everyone's lost the traditional meaning of Christmas anyway!

I do not celebrate it, however I do celebrate a drink and a good feed! 

HAHA!


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## nongreenthumb (Dec 24, 2007)

Who celebrates christmas these days for the purpose of god, surely that would entail giving money away to charity and making your money situation more even to the poor and not going out and spending huge amounts of cash on material items for your nearest and dearest in an effort to show you love them enough by the amount you spent.


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## donnieosmond (Dec 24, 2007)

Yes, not many people follow the original traditions of Christmas but those who believe in God do at least remember and recognize the true meaning of Christmas. I'm not a rich man at all, but I'd say I give at least $70-100 to the charity people on the streets throughout each holiday season as I'm walking by. I'm not saying that giving people presents is the true meaning of Christmas but it stemmed from it. And if you're celebrating with your family in any way tonight or tomorrow; sorry you're indirectly celebrating Jesus's birthday. Merry CHRISTmas.


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## nongreenthumb (Dec 24, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> Yes, not many people follow the original traditions of Christmas but those who believe in God do at least remember and recognize the true meaning of Christmas. I'm not a rich man at all, but I'd say I give at least $70-100 to the charity people on the streets throughout each holiday season as I'm walking by. I'm not saying that giving people presents is the true meaning of Christmas but it stemmed from it. And if you're celebrating with your family in any way tonight or tomorrow; sorry you're indirectly celebrating Jesus's birthday. Merry CHRISTmas.


I disagree, non religious people are not celebrating it religiously because they don't believe it happened, maybe in your eyes they are.

If your non religious your celebrating the family time and the present giving and thats all its about.

For me christmas has no religious baring the only purpose of christmas is the children to let them believe that the world is a good place and make their eyes light up.


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 24, 2007)

Yeah, but there's a certain amount of that necessary to actually _live_ and not just bitch about things all the time. I'm not saying anyone does, but man...faith is important. You _can't_ understand everything, so sometimes you just have to not try. And when you're ready you will understand. Some people want to wait until this life is over, some don't. And that's fine. It just matters when _you_, as an individual, will be ready.

Do you have answers to your own questions?? I'm curious...



suicidesamurai said:


> Having faith means you don't have to think critically about the things that need critical thought the most.
> 
> _Where do we come from?_
> 
> ...


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 24, 2007)

I'd just like to say, i never said they were the same person. I said Santa is _like_ God in that, if you believe in him, he exists for you. You tell a little kid Santa doesn't exist and they go ape-shit. My friend, as a junior in high school, cried when my teacher told her. sometimes, it's just the wya things are. Belief is what you want it to be, faith is how you see it. There is thought behind that statement if you take it at more than face value...

Peace and love 



iblazethatkush said:


> Yeah you been cool Moutain Spliff. I just don't like the people who says things like people who believe in God are dumbasses or religion is for weak-minded people or santa and God are the same person, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 24, 2007)

If God managed to become beyond time, why is it that we cannot? we have thought, perhaps we could, as a human race, develop to understand time in its rightful fashion. "How did God get there?" or "What/who made God?" was a question that, even from when i was little, gave me little faith in God as my Church taught it. I've developed my own ideas since, and they are ever-changing, but I don't feel i need to convince anyone. "Right" is how you see it. That's all. 



donnieosmond said:


> We can only partially comprehend the notion of God's existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: "without beginning or end"; "eternal"; "infinite", etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: _" . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God"_ (Psalm 90:2). And, _"Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting" _(Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn't. He always was. To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people's lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is "beyond the chart." He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been. Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 24, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> I am saying what I say because I believe in God. I don't know why and in all other ventures in life I think for myself. There is something deep inside me that says believe in God and I do because I feel that it is the right thing to do. I have not vigorously studied the concepts behind every religion but then, other religions do not effect me. I don't seek answers that aren't there. I just believe. If that makes me dumb, or misinformed, or naive to everyone else, that's ok. Because anyone who does not believe in God has their own hypothesis which is equally correct or incorrect in comparison to my own beliefs. So no matter how the picture about me is painted, I'm just as correct in my personal beliefs as the next guy.


 
Very well said. Kudos


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 24, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> Sorry donnie, but humans have been wondering where they came from as soon as they became conscious. Around the time religion was being created humans weren't intelligent enough to be the so called scientists we have today. So they they kinda made it all up as they went along.


 
_*THAT*_ is a complete load of bull. Excuse my insight, but how do you know?


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## donnieosmond (Dec 24, 2007)

nongreenthumb said:


> I disagree, non religious people are not celebrating it religiously because they don't believe it happened, maybe in your eyes they are.
> 
> If your non religious your celebrating the family time and the present giving and thats all its about.
> 
> For me christmas has no religious baring the only purpose of christmas is the children to let them believe that the world is a good place and make their eyes light up.


But where do you think it comes from? You may not celebrate it religiously but the date of celebration comes from Christianity. Why not have a family celebration on the 13th of October? And call it Festivus, a celebration for the rest of us? 

The bottom line is people who don't believe in God celebrate Christmas only for the gift giving. They don't want their kids to go to school the next day and have their friends ask them what they got for Christmas and have them say "nothing, we don't celebrate it" because they'd feel like an outcast. How do you think Jews react? They have 8 days of celebration and are perfectly content celebrating their own holiday on a different day, so why are people who don't believe in God leaching off the holiday designed for those who do? I couldn't imagine celebrating Hanukkah next year just because I felt like it, or wanted to fit in, or just wanted more presents. It's a ridiculous and disrespectful thought process in my opinion.


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 24, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> You have to have a soul to go to an afterlife. I doubt ants do, maybe chimpanzees. But, you missed the point... Ppl think God was invented b/c ppl are scared of death. I'm not scared of that. It would be just like taking a long ass nap you don't wake up from. Doesn't sound too bad to me...And I don't care how the Earth or universe was created. This is not what causes me to believe...I believe for many of my own personal reasons that I would not be able to explain here.


 
Woah woah woah. Ants are a lifeform like anyother, equally important to the survival and well-being of this planet. _EVERYTHING_ has a soul man, a soul is just energy. if it had no energy, it wouldn't be here. Awww, fuck, sorry i'm disagreeing, i have no point. I geuss i just wanted you to think about that a bit. But believing in God is not something i will diss. I can say i hate the Catholic system though, right?


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## donnieosmond (Dec 24, 2007)

WhatAmIDoing said:


> Woah woah woah. Ants are a lifeform like anyother, equally important to the survival and well-being of this planet. _EVERYTHING_ has a soul man, a soul is just energy. if it had no energy, it wouldn't be here. Awww, fuck, sorry i'm disagreeing, i have no point. I geuss i just wanted you to think about that a bit. But believing in God is not something i will diss. I can say i hate the Catholic system though, right?


Yes you can, that's the nice thing about practicing religion in America, anyone can have any opinion they choose and I personally would not have it any other way.

Otherwise I'd move to Afghanistan and start practicing Islam.


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 24, 2007)

Yeah dude. Same with Easter and the big bunny thing. Same sort of disrespect, yet the two holidays have been commercialized so that money can be made by exploiting a large percentage of the population. It's cruel man, so cruel.



donnieosmond said:


> But where do you think it comes from? You may not celebrate it religiously but the date of celebration comes from Christianity. Why not have a family celebration on the 13th of October? And call it Festivus, a celebration for the rest of us?
> 
> The bottom line is people who don't believe in God celebrate Christmas only for the gift giving. They don't want their kids to go to school the next day and have their friends ask them what they got for Christmas and have them say "nothing, we don't celebrate it" because they'd feel like an outcast. How do you think Jews react? They have 8 days of celebration and are perfectly content celebrating their own holiday on a different day, so why are people who don't believe in God leaching off the holiday designed for those who do? I couldn't imagine celebrating Hanukkah next year just because I felt like it, or wanted to fit in, or just wanted more presents. It's a ridiculous and disrespectful thought process in my opinion.


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 24, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> Yes you can, that's the nice thing about practicing religion in America, anyone can have any opinion they choose and I personally would not have it any other way.
> 
> Otherwise I'd move to Afghanistan and start practicing Islam.


 
Word, cause I can't stand how that whole entire thing works. To me, it was created for the express purpose of exploitation; thus the Pope and his Cardinals at the top of a huge power structure. However, the faith part is real. And that's how the exploitation flourished so well--Faith is inherent in thought.

But whatev man, that's just my view, I'm not trying to downplay or criticize anyone. My mom's a congregationalist, my dad's a buddhist, and so i get a very wide exposure (compartively) to ideas.


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## donnieosmond (Dec 24, 2007)

WhatAmIDoing said:


> Word, cause I can't stand how that whole entire thing works. To me, it was created for the express purpose of exploitation; thus the Pope and his Cardinals at the top of a huge power structure. However, the faith part is real. And that's how the exploitation flourished so well--Faith is inherent in thought.
> 
> But whatev man, that's just my view, I'm not trying to downplay or criticize anyone. My mom's a congregationalist, my dad's a buddhist, and so i get a very wide exposure (compartively) to ideas.


And the fact that they are married speak volumes about the discussions we're having here today. You can still respect someone just because their beliefs are different than yours. I love ngt but I think his views on religion SUCK! Also, my girlfriend is Jewish and we celebrate separate holidays but I still love her more than anything. 

So whatever we say on this thread, always remember that we're all here for one purpose and that's to grow God's plant.


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## nongreenthumb (Dec 24, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> And the fact that they are married speak volumes about the discussions we're having here today. You can still respect someone just because their beliefs are different than yours. I love ngt but I think his views on religion SUCK! Also, my girlfriend is Jewish and we celebrate separate holidays but I still love her more than anything.
> 
> So whatever we say on this thread, always remember that we're all here for one purpose and that's to grow God's plant.




I didn't at any point explain to you my beliefs on god, so for you to say my views suck is kinda fucked.


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## closet.cult (Dec 24, 2007)

Home_Grown said:


> There is no irrefutable evidence to suggest God does not exist or exist. However, there is much scientific evidence to suggest that he does not exist and much much much evidence to support Darwinians theory of evolution.
> 
> Obviously your dead set he exists and I am pretty much dead set he does not exist. One day however you will realise.


not exactly. there is no scientific evidence that god does not exist. absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence...in theory. although in practice, the fact that we see no evidence of a powerful person called god doen't help the believers case.



iblazethatkush said:


> Your too stuck up on the science of it all......According to science we shouldn't exist....The big bang theory that an atom appeared out of thin air and exploded creating the universe and everything we see today? I thought energy cannot be created or destroyed...Is the idea of a God really more far-fetched than the big bang theory?


science is very important because its the only method known to man that can consistantly answer hard questions. when we apply it to god, it has no answers. aside from the actual big bang event, which science cannot even speculate on, there really doesn't seem to be any need for a creative force after it.

if you believe the theory of evolution, you can imagine the hot peices of the big bang arranging themselves according to their chemical properties...over a long time, science supports the idea of these peices turning into intelligent life, given the right conditions for development.

there is no need for any supernatural force outside of the big bang itself. and perhaps there is a very simple explanation for that event. either way, we're forced to wait for whatever god you believe in to show himself. but none ever do...and people keep on believing...


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## closet.cult (Dec 24, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> So whatever we say on this thread, always remember that we're all here for one purpose and that's to grow God's plant.


weed is a gift from the earth, not from any imaginary god. 

it is almost a symbiotic relationship between humans who benefit and enjoy its properties, and the plant who gets free horticulture and breeding care.


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## fdd2blk (Dec 24, 2007)

90% of the strains i grow where created by the breeding efforts of simple men. kind of an advanced evolution if you will.


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## nongreenthumb (Dec 24, 2007)

Everything that is here now is so because the environment was right for it to be so. 

If it wasn't right for it to be so it wouldn't any more and it would die out.

If all the creatures in this world are on gods earth surely they are gods creatures also and certain species have gone extinct and others are bordering on it.

Cannabis is just a plant that has evolved into what it is today, it is alive because the conditions on this planet allow it to be so.

No one put it here.

If you want to see god, get yourself a cup of milk and leave it on the side untouched for as long as possible and witness the creation and evolution of life, its going to take more years than you can give to see it develop into something of a decent size but you will be creating life just as everything else on this planet was created.


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## donnieosmond (Dec 24, 2007)

Eww... curdled milk... nothing smells worse.


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## starchland (Dec 24, 2007)

44 pages of blabbering bullshit...see the downfalls of religions/god.

merry x mas


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 24, 2007)

Home_Grown said:


> I do not believe in God.
> 
> Everything I find wrong about God is God himself. There is no such thing.
> 
> ...


Nice research Homegrown. You are ruthless.

Show me 1 scientific fact that God doesn't exist.

There is no truth in any direction.


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## LiveHigh (Dec 24, 2007)

Well, after abstaining from posting for 20 pages; I can say amen to skunkykushbird and homegrown.

It cracks me up that religious people would even want ANYTHING to do with a God, if there were one. This world is so fucked up. If you honestly believed there was something responsible for this chaos, you should damn well think it was the biggest piece of shit to ever exist.

What it all boils down to is no one can make you believe anything that you don't want to believe. People will do what they want. Religious folk are practically slapped in the face by evidence every day that points to God not existing. But they will believe what they want...and people in this sad fucking world we live in will continue to die because of it.

Religion is DEADLY and UNHEALTHY

You can be spiritual without being religious. Having an understanding and loving nature toward mankind is being spiritual. Nothing says, "Hey, you have to believe in bullshit to be spiritual...so get with it"


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 24, 2007)

donnieosmond said:


> I didn't read any of the rest of the posts on this thread. But if you're celebrating Christmas this year and don't believe in God; you're a damn hypocrite.


Christmas was originally a pagan festival to honour the Sun.

The dates were interspersed to help ingratiate christianity into pagan England.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 24, 2007)

WhatAmIDoing said:


> _*THAT*_ is a complete load of bull. Excuse my insight, but how do you know?


Its called logic! 

Are you telling me there were no bushmen 20 000 years ago? Or didn't you know that? 

The age of bones can be read through a process called carbon dating.
Logically man has been learning since he became conscious. The more one learns, the more complex they become. Or hadn't you noticed?
At some point in the learning process the idea of religion developed.
At what age does a child start to seriously think about god? At what point in its learning process?

Logically it is simple. Even more simple than you.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 24, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Christmas was originally a pagan festival to honour the Sun.
> 
> The dates were interspersed to help ingratiate christianity into pagan England.


 
Ouch!! lol


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 24, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> Its called logic!
> 
> Are you telling me there were no bushmen 20 000 years ago? Or didn't you know that?
> 
> ...


 
So you agree. It's speculation, which is entirely different from knowledge. How do you know the idea of God wasn't implanted by an individual, or small group, spread through motivation for control and manipulation? You odn't know _why_ humans created a notion of God. So please don't preach it as fact.

EDIT~ That's all i'm saying, i'm not saying I disagree with you. I'm just saying what you said is not indisputable fact.


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 24, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> Its called logic!
> 
> Are you telling me there were no bushmen 20 000 years ago? Or didn't you know that?
> 
> ...


 
Aahhh...you speak of the learning process. Yet to me, it is so obvious you know so little about it. Is it not part of learning to understand? and thus to realize that your views are not the sole explanations for everything? that perception will vary from person to person, that it is useless to appear condescending, as that accomplishes nothing except to induce anger? No one likes to be treated like an idiot. What a person likes helps to dictate what they believe, and what thye will stand for. i'm sorry if i sounded condescending or offensive in tone to you. Your logic may be simple, but it is an ignorant simplicity, created as such to provide a stable basis of thought from which to stretch out from. NO different than anyone else.


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 24, 2007)

WhatAmIDoing said:


> So you agree. It's speculation, which is entirely different from knowledge. How do you know the idea of God wasn't implanted by an individual, or small group, spread through motivation for control and manipulation? You odn't know _why_ humans created a notion of God. So please don't preach it as fact.
> 
> EDIT~ That's all i'm saying, i'm not saying I disagree with you. I'm just saying what you said is not indisputable fact.





WhatAmIDoing said:


> Aahhh...you speak of the learning process. Yet to me, it is so obvious you know so little about it. Is it not part of learning to understand? and thus to realize that your views are not the sole explanations for everything? that perception will vary from person to person, that it is useless to appear condescending, as that accomplishes nothing except to induce anger? No one likes to be treated like an idiot. What a person likes helps to dictate what they believe, and what thye will stand for. i'm sorry if i sounded condescending or offensive in tone to you. Your logic may be simple, but it is an ignorant simplicity, created as such to provide a stable basis of thought from which to stretch out from. NO different than anyone else.


Well the bones and art of prehistoric people are pretty hard to deny. They are also pretty well researched and documented.
I didn't claim fact. I merely presented you with a logical argument.
If that logic upsets you, its not my fault. I didn't make it logical. It just is.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

WhatAmIDoing said:


> Woah woah woah. Ants are a lifeform like anyother, equally important to the survival and well-being of this planet. _EVERYTHING_ has a soul man, a soul is just energy. if it had no energy, it wouldn't be here. Awww, fuck, sorry i'm disagreeing, i have no point. I geuss i just wanted you to think about that a bit. But believing in God is not something i will diss. I can say i hate the Catholic system though, right?


Yes. I agree. I think the Catholic church along with many other religions are evil. The catholic church preaches nothing but blasephmy. Google it, nearly everything they do contradicts what the Bible tells us.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

LiveHigh said:


> Well, after abstaining from posting for 20 pages; I can say amen to skunkykushbird and homegrown.
> 
> It cracks me up that religious people would even want ANYTHING to do with a God, if there were one. This world is so fucked up. If you honestly believed there was something responsible for this chaos, you should damn well think it was the biggest piece of shit to ever exist.
> 
> ...


God doesn't create the evil in the world. He allows it to happen, yes. But, everything is for a reason.....How can you say religion is deadly and unhealthy. Most religions preach nothing but love and kindness to all of your fellow man. It is man that is evil. You cannot blame religion for the evil men who manipulate it for their own evil purposes.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 24, 2007)

nongreenthumb said:


> I disagree, non religious people are not celebrating it religiously because they don't believe it happened, maybe in your eyes they are.
> 
> If your non religious your celebrating the family time and the present giving and thats all its about.
> 
> For me christmas has no religious baring the only purpose of christmas is the children to let them believe that the world is a good place and make their eyes light up.


I agree. Christmas has become a corporate holiday. There's no religion left in holiday. I think Christmas is for everybody. Besides, no one really knows when Jesus Christ was born. He was a summer baby, so it probably wasn't in December.


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## Home_Grown (Dec 24, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> I agree. Christmas has become a corporate holiday. There's no religion left in holiday. I think Christmas is for everybody. Besides, no one really knows when Jesus Christ was born. He was a summer baby, so it probably wasn't in December.


Unless he was born in Australia!!

Guys, I've stated my facts. Each to there own.

All I can say is to the guy who said there was no scientific evidence that God doesn't exist. Mate, go research Darwinians Evolution, thats pretty much all the scientific evidence I need.

Plus, if you correctly read and interpret the Bible. Jesus ain't such a great guy!

The only reason I "Celebrate" Christmas is because my wife is Presbyterian and her family is also.

Originally Posted by *LiveHigh*  
_Well, after abstaining from posting for 20 pages; I can say amen to skunkykushbird and homegrown.

It cracks me up that religious people would even want ANYTHING to do with a God, if there were one. This world is so fucked up. If you honestly believed there was something responsible for this chaos, you should damn well think it was the biggest piece of shit to ever exist.

What it all boils down to is no one can make you believe anything that you don't want to believe. People will do what they want. Religious folk are practically slapped in the face by evidence every day that points to God not existing. But they will believe what they want...and people in this sad fucking world we live in will continue to die because of it.

Religion is DEADLY and UNHEALTHY

You can be spiritual without being religious. Having an understanding and loving nature toward mankind is being spiritual. Nothing says, "Hey, you have to believe in bullshit to be spiritual...so get with it"

Amen!
_


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## natrone23 (Dec 24, 2007)

iblazethatkush said:


> Why should I have to prove God's existence to you?
> Can you give me one piece of irrefutable evidence that proves God does not exist.


Why should I have to prove Fairies existence to you?
Can you give me one piece of irrefutable evidence that proves Fairies do not exist?.........................................................Do you see the problem with your argument?


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## Home_Grown (Dec 25, 2007)

natrone23 said:


> Why should I have to prove Fairies existence to you?
> Can you give me one piece of irrefutable evidence that proves Fairies do not exist?.........................................................Do you see the problem with your argument?


I wholeheartedly agree. It's like the orbiting "tea-pot" theory. If millions of people believed that a teapot orbited in the galaxy yet could not be proved by science (believing that modern day telescopes could not see the teapot) it would be called "religion".

However, on saying that, I also believe that "iblazethatkush" is deeply religious and believes in the existence of God. I respect that, but would have to respectfully disagree on the proof of evolution and scientific evidence. However, I get deeply offended when people say that religion is harmless. It is not. I will post later with quite irrefutable evidence that Christians do not worship the same god as Muslims.

African Muslims vs Christian Muslims (A War started between an apparent derogatory remark made in a Danish cartoon, that was later proved the cartoon was false and did not offend Islam)
Palestinians vs Jews (Does this even need proof?)
Christian Lebanese vs Muslim Lebanese (These guys have been fighting for many years, over religion might I add)

Now, if Christians and Muslims worshiped the SAME God, why would these believers be killing each other in RECORD numbers?

Dogma, Religion is the root of ALL evil. Jesus was not a saint.


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## iblazethatkush (Dec 25, 2007)

Touche Natrone Touche


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## Miracle Smoke (Dec 25, 2007)

I'm agnostic to the concept.

But do you guys think god believes in himself/herself/itself?

Oh no i think i just fucked up the space-time continuum.


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## natrone23 (Dec 25, 2007)

I would say that the jews vs Plaestainians is more of territorial issue, But this territorial issue stems from a false reigious belief........Many jews and Christians believe that the jews are Gods chosen people and that he promised them ownership of Palestine. But before Jews started to immigrate to and steal Arabs land in palestine in the early 1900's, Jews and Muslims lived together in peace throughout the Muslim land. This recent Anti-semitism and hatered of the jews my some Muslims today stems from this land grab. Most Muslims don't have anything against Jews they have problems with Israeli's

The Muslims have been rather tame in their hatred of jews compared to Christian history. But the Muslims actually have a good reason why they have problems with Jews (Israelis) The Christians have persecuted the Jews throughout history because of the simple fact they wern't christians. Forced conversions in Spain in 1492, Jews were told to convert or leave, and if you do neither you die. Over the centuries Christian countries such as England, Spain, Italy have all kicked Jews out of their countries. During the Crudades while Marching through Europe on their way to the "Holy Land" would often stop at Jewish villages and slaughter everone. We haven't even gotten to the Holocaust yet Nazi photos


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 25, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> Well the bones and art of prehistoric people are pretty hard to deny. They are also pretty well researched and documented.
> I didn't claim fact. I merely presented you with a logical argument.
> If that logic upsets you, its not my fault. I didn't make it logical. It just is.


 
I'm just saying, the logic is based off of what was left behind. Not everything that was. Just because something didn't survive doesn't mean it wasn't really important. I don't disbelieve historical evidence, and I do agree with you that this is a viable course of events. I'm just saying that I'm staying open. There always could be more, so I'm not going to tyr and prove anything. I don't need to prove it to myself, so I odn't feel it's necessary to prove at all. Proof is entirely personal and open to interpretation. The fact that certain things exist from ancient time periods is irrefutable, agreed. But it doesn't mean that's all there was. It's not likely that everything htat's "important" to thought, etc. today will survive. So i'm just sayin. That's all.


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 25, 2007)

Miracle Smoke said:


> I'm agnostic to the concept.
> 
> But do you guys think god believes in himself/herself/itself?
> 
> Oh no i think i just fucked up the space-time continuum.


 
How are you defining agnostic? Cause I've heard that it's "waiting for proof". I'm not "waiting for proof", but I don't believe and I don't disbelieve. How would you put htat?


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## mountainSpliff (Dec 25, 2007)

WhatAmIDoing said:


> I'm just saying, the logic is based off of what was left behind. Not everything that was. Just because something didn't survive doesn't mean it wasn't really important. I don't disbelieve historical evidence, and I do agree with you that this is a viable course of events. I'm just saying that I'm staying open. There always could be more, so I'm not going to tyr and prove anything. I don't need to prove it to myself, so I odn't feel it's necessary to prove at all. Proof is entirely personal and open to interpretation. The fact that certain things exist from ancient time periods is irrefutable, agreed. But it doesn't mean that's all there was. It's not likely that everything htat's "important" to thought, etc. today will survive. So i'm just sayin. That's all.


 
Now thats what I'm talking about.


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## Home_Grown (Dec 25, 2007)

WhatAmIDoing said:


> How are you defining agnostic? Cause I've heard that it's "waiting for proof". I'm not "waiting for proof", but I don't believe and I don't disbelieve. How would you put htat?


Agnostic has many definitions. Not necessarily "Waiting for proof" as you put it, more like, a Fence Sitter. You would also be, a fence sitter.


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 26, 2007)

mountainSpliff said:


> Now thats what I'm talking about.


 
Word


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 26, 2007)

Home_Grown said:


> Agnostic has many definitions. Not necessarily "Waiting for proof" as you put it, more like, a Fence Sitter. You would also be, a fence sitter.


 
Fence sitter? I'm not unsure though...


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## Miracle Smoke (Dec 26, 2007)

WhatAmIDoing said:


> Fence sitter? I'm not unsure though...


Well whatever definition it holds, my denotive is that i don't know whether god exists i can't just simply believe in something and hope its true, then again that may contradict somethings or maybe not.

I've been researching hinduism, but if i were to believe in it that means i
would have to imply that there is god, on the other hand if my definition
of god would be "universal truth aka brahman aka god" then that might different.

I believe in a universal truth, i mean there has to be, this universe is so complex that when i try think about "everything" my mind simply cannot
encompass it.

Anyone have any thoughts?


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## nomad (Dec 26, 2007)

do all the people who believe in god also beleve whole heartedly in the bible?
if so there was adam and eve.if i get any of this wrong do not hesitate to correct me as i have never read nor shall i.
so adam and eve do the business and have children then what?who pumps who to get more kids and to populate the world?
does this mean they interbred? i is not that bothered just curious.


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## Miracle Smoke (Dec 26, 2007)

nomad said:


> do all the people who believe in god also beleve whole heartedly in the bible?
> if so there was adam and eve.if i get any of this wrong do not hesitate to correct me as i have never read nor shall i.
> so adam and eve do the business and have children then what?who pumps who to get more kids and to populate the world?
> does this mean they interbred? i is not that bothered just curious.


Ive read a couple documentaries about this on ngeo and historyC, they believe adam and eve when somewhere near the tiger and euphrates 
river, but other sources clam adam had a second wife, they were explaining 
on how the bible is a story by the sumerians (the oldest civilization), i don't know much but if anyone knows more into it im sure they will explain.


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 26, 2007)

Miracle Smoke said:


> Well whatever definition it holds, my denotive is that i don't know whether god exists i can't just simply believe in something and hope its true, then again that may contradict somethings or maybe not.
> 
> I've been researching hinduism, but if i were to believe in it that means i
> would have to imply that there is god, on the other hand if my definition
> ...


See, i just see "God" as a representation for a force that exists, but i don't believe in "God" persay. How would you put that? Does it need a classification?


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 26, 2007)

nomad said:


> do all the people who believe in god also beleve whole heartedly in the bible?
> if so there was adam and eve.if i get any of this wrong do not hesitate to correct me as i have never read nor shall i.
> so adam and eve do the business and have children then what?who pumps who to get more kids and to populate the world?
> does this mean they interbred? i is not that bothered just curious.


Yeah, i'm kinda curious too...


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## Home_Grown (Dec 27, 2007)

WhatAmIDoing said:


> See, i just see "God" as a representation for a force that exists, but i don't believe in "God" persay. How would you put that? Does it need a classification?


God, as in nature? As in Einstein's definition of God?



> Einstein's God was not the God of most other men. When he wrote of religion, as he often did in middle and later life, he tended to adopt the belief of Alice's Red Queen that "words mean what you want them to mean," and to clothe with different names what to more ordinary mortals  and to most Jews  looked like a variant of simple agnosticism. Replying in 1929 to a cabled inquiry from Rabbi Goldstein of New York, he said that he believed "in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exist, not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of men." And it is claimed that years later, asked by Ben-Gurion whether he believed in God, "even he, with his great formula about energy and mass, agreed that there must be something behind the energy." No doubt. But much of Einstein's writing gives the impression of belief in a God even more intangible and impersonal than a celestial machine minder, running the universe with indisputable authority and expert touch. Instead, Einstein's God appears as the physical world itself, with its infinitely marvelous structure operating at atomic level with the beauty of a craftsman's wristwatch, and at stellar level with the majesty of a massive cyclotron. This was belief enough. It grew early and rooted deep. Only later was it dignified by the title of cosmic religion, a phrase which gave plausible respectability to the views of a man who did not believe in a life after death and who felt that if virtue paid off in the earthly one, then this was the result of cause and effect rather than celestial reward. Einstein's God thus stood for an orderly system obeying rules which could be discovered by those who at the courage, imagination, and persistence to go on searching for them. It was to this past which he began to turn his mind soon after the age of twelve. The rest of his life everything else was to seem almost trivial by comparison.
> [FONT=Bookman Old Style, Arial]Ronald W. Clark, Einstein: The Life and Times, New York: World Publishing, 1971, pp. 19-20.[/FONT]


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## IPokeSmot (Dec 27, 2007)

I dont believe in anything, but I dont have any problem with anyone that does, so as long as you dont push your beliefs on others.

Im still not convinced the tooth fairy is a myth though.


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## bigbudeddie (Dec 27, 2007)

IPokeSmot said:


> I dont believe in anything, but I dont have any problem with anyone that does, so as long as you dont push your beliefs on others.
> 
> Im still not convinced the tooth fairy is a myth though.


 Some good words there. Good to see you back IPokeSmot


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 27, 2007)

IPokeSmot said:


> Im still not convinced the tooth fairy is a myth though.


There's a good way that you can find out. Simply knock out a couple of your own teeth (how is up to you)... then leave them under your pillow and make sure you stay awake for the whole of that night.

However, be prepared to be disappointed.


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## Evil Buddies (Dec 27, 2007)

until there is actual evidence of god all u can do is just believe. God =good devil= evil maybe god is the good in us and the devil the evil in us


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## WhatAmIDoing (Dec 27, 2007)

Home_Grown said:


> God, as in nature? As in Einstein's definition of God?


--ish... I geuss that makes sense. But I don't think "GOD" is the right word for that anymore. language changes, words are just sounds that convey ideas, and the word/sound "God" conveys a totally different idea. But it's not even necessarily anything that's in control, or even more powerful than anything else. It's simply somethign different, that no one has truly understood (or if they have, i don't know about it...which i geuss is likely). Things make more and more sense the more I think about them, but thinking is only a process, and anyone can be anywhere upon the path and be just as "correct" as anyone else.

_TRUE_ communication was lost once modern language was created. Because the meaning and purpose for the langauge, all the nuances, have been lost in the attempt to make everything and everyone "the same". Cause that what society is right? That's what the rules do? That's what grammar is?


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## skunkushybrid (Dec 28, 2007)

WhatAmIDoing said:


> --ish... I geuss that makes sense. But I don't think "GOD" is the right word for that anymore. language changes, words are just sounds that convey ideas, and the word/sound "God" conveys a totally different idea. But it's not even necessarily anything that's in control, or even more powerful than anything else. It's simply somethign different, that no one has truly understood (or if they have, i don't know about it...which i geuss is likely). Things make more and more sense the more I think about them, but thinking is only a process, and anyone can be anywhere upon the path and be just as "correct" as anyone else.
> 
> _TRUE_ communication was lost once modern language was created. Because the meaning and purpose for the langauge, all the nuances, have been lost in the attempt to make everything and everyone "the same". Cause that what society is right? That's what the rules do? That's what grammar is?


Some great words, but i don't believe that true communication has been lost... I believe, rather, that it simply gets ignored. A person can be saying one thing with words and another with tone... and yet another with body language. All these nuances (nice word!) are instantly picked up by our subconscious minds... we have just learned to ignore them. We are taught to believe what we are told, from the moment they get us into school and start teaching us about gods as though they are real, is the moment we stop listening to ourselves.

How this bullshit has survived this long is beyond my comprehension.


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## cream8 (Jan 2, 2008)

i like turtles


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 2, 2008)

IGNORED.. is correct.... lost, becaue people ignore... maybe ignore is not correct...

maybe it is... DULLED... we have become dull because of POLLUTION... (not chemical pollution)

or maybe it is atrophied... and then it dulled and then it was lost and now it is ignored..

lol

EITHER way.. i agree

iloveyou


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## WhatAmIDoing (Jan 2, 2008)

Yeah, i suppose lost isn't entirely true. But it certainly is not as prevelant as you'd think it ought to be.


lol, Knowm...once again, words. They're weird to use when trying to explain things sometimes. But y'all get it. There's more than words.


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## m3atwad (Jan 2, 2008)

meatwad is god =)
meatology is the religion of meatwad. come follow me !


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## WhatAmIDoing (Jan 2, 2008)

I suppose my point was that grammar and the "correct" use of words inadvertantly leads to loss of communication. people don't focus on conveying ideas/thoughts as much. they also make sure that it's all grammatically correct and whatnot. But that isn't important. Life is important. I suppose...and then this leads to loss of concentration because of split minds. 


well, this may or may not be true. but it's what i can see/project.


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 2, 2008)

WhatAmIDoing said:


> well, this may or may not be true. but it's what i can see/project.


yeah, what he said 

iloveyou


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## mountainSpliff (Jan 3, 2008)

*It's all just speculation.*

Nothing more, nothing less.


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## natmoon (Jan 3, 2008)

IMO only.
God and the Devil live within us all as i believe in the macrocosm and the microcosm.
I believe that there is no real difference between these 2 except from a relative point of view.
If you want to talk to God or the Devil just look inside yourself and you will find them.
IMO only.


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## fdd2blk (Jan 3, 2008)

i just came across this on another board. is this true?


"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church" (1 Corinthians 14:34-35). 


"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression" (1 Timothy 2:11-14). 


"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their husbands in every thing" (Ephesians 5:22-24)


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## natmoon (Jan 3, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i just came across this on another board. is this true?
> 
> 
> "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church" (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).
> ...


That is totally correct fdd.
I think that we have to try to determine from all of this doctrine what parts were written by Kings,priests and general asswipes as a form of control over women and the general populous and what was actually the truth.
The search for the truth will never be easy and in my opinon only can only be found within ourselves.

I do not believe that 90% of the Bible is in anyway true at all and was more than likely rewritten by various Kings etc. over the centuries to control people and keep women down.
Marriage itself was the same as cattle branding originally,the ring was engraved with the mans initials so as to mark her,and only the women was required to honour and obey.
Women were scared into this by their fear of God.

I believe that Jesus gave and healed poor people with cannabis oils and basically went around saying be excellent to each other so they killed him.
As to all of the rest of the Bible who knows,one thing i do know is that it was,for the most part,written by rich,powerful and corrupt men to control people and women.
Look inside yourself for the truth


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## fdd2blk (Jan 3, 2008)

well, if there is a god, i don't like him.


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## natmoon (Jan 3, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> well, if there is a god, i don't like him.


I am sure the real God wouldn't mind if he does exist or he wouldn't have give us our own free will.
Only the Devil takes this away from you


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## nomad (Jan 3, 2008)

whos to say god is a he and as for the bible i think they must have had really good grass back then and a man on a hill with plenty of smoke wrote it in his spare time.


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## natmoon (Jan 3, 2008)

nomad said:


> whos to say god is a he and as for the bible i think they must have had really good grass back then and a man on a hill with plenty of smoke wrote it in his spare time.


I think that it is more likely that God would be male dominant,as in _*almost*_ every natural creature the male is dominant.
Having said this i also believe that none of us are completely male or female and it is very likely that God is a perfectly balanced being of some kind,the perfect blend of male and female aspects,balanced perfectly


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## nomad (Jan 3, 2008)

so no one really knows. i is jus curious thats all. i myself do not believe but if someone can come up with proper evidence that god does exist you may get a few more believers. although it has been interesting reading all the different views and arguments.


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## natmoon (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't claim to know if he/she/it does exist.
I base my beliefs on the fact that life the universe and everything cannot exist and is actually impossible,leaving me only one conclusion that a higher order of some kind must in fact exist.
Wether they have anything to do with us is the real debate


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## nomad (Jan 4, 2008)

nothing is impossible that is why people believe there is a god of some form ,i just choose not to believe in god
life and the universe do exist otherwise what are we.
i do not believe in god as i have never seen it ,but i do not argue with people who do believe it is there choice
i do believe on ghosts though.


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## natmoon (Jan 4, 2008)

nomad said:


> nothing is impossible that is why people believe there is a god of some form ,i just choose not to believe in god
> life and the universe do exist otherwise what are we.
> i do not believe in god as i have never seen it ,but i do not argue with people who do believe it is there choice
> i do believe on ghosts though.


I would like to know how you propose that the universe and everything in it is actually possible?


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## crazy-mental (Jan 4, 2008)

wonder if we will ever find out, as we get to know more as the years go on.
earth mite even just be a t.v show for ailiens.lol


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## natmoon (Jan 4, 2008)

To my mind it would seem that if we live in an impossible universe then the answer must also be impossible because the question is.
It is just as likely that we are mini gods in training as it is that we are nothing but worthless space dust in time.

Whichever one it is i don't pretend to know,but i do know that the universe and everything in it is against the laws of physics itself and therefore not possible at all.

I know the next question will be how do i know that the universe is impossible so heres the answer.
In all life something had to come first,this in itself is impossible.
There is no question of chickens and eggs as both are impossible as neither could have come first without the other and neither can be without the other one existing first but neither can exist first so the only answer is that neither actually exists at all.

Swirl that around your stoned heads for a minute or two


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## Wigmo (Jan 4, 2008)

natmoon said:


> To my mind it would seem that if we live in an impossible universe then the answer must also be impossible because the question is.
> It is just as likely that we are mini gods in training as it is that we are nothing but worthless space dust in time.
> 
> Whichever one it is i don't pretend to know,but i do know that the universe and everything in it is against the laws of physics itself and therefore not possible at all.
> ...



beautiful. existence=the greatest paradox. god exists purely becuase of the fact that the concept exists. and the concept exists purely because god exists. this is the great duality of the universe


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## natrone23 (Jan 4, 2008)

Wigmo said:


> beautiful. existence=the greatest paradox. god exists purely becuase of the fact that the concept exists. and the concept exists purely because god exists. this is the great duality of the universe


which god are we talking about Zeus, Thor, Mithras, Buddah, The god of Abraham, Saturn, Egyptian Sun God, Mayan Gods, Inca Gods, ect


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## natmoon (Jan 4, 2008)

natrone23 said:


> which god are we talking about Zeus, Thor, Mithras, Buddah, The god of Abraham, Saturn, Egyptian Sun God, Mayan Gods, Inca Gods, ect


Which God is really irrelevant


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## Wigmo (Jan 4, 2008)

natmoon said:


> Which God is really irrelevant



Moony knows whatsup


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 4, 2008)

nomad said:


> nothing is impossible that is why people believe there is a god of some form ,i just choose not to believe in god
> life and the universe do exist otherwise what are we.
> i do not believe in god as i have never seen it ,but i do not argue with people who do believe it is there choice
> i do believe on ghosts though.


what if you didn't believe in ghosts?
what if you didn't dis-belive in ghosts?

what is the purpose in believing or not believing?

this is a serious question..

thank you


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## natmoon (Jan 4, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> what if you didn't believe in ghosts?
> what if you didn't dis-belive in ghosts?
> 
> what is the purpose in believing or not believing?
> ...


All though the question was not directed at me i do have a comment i would like to make.
I think that the answer to what is the purpose in believing or not believing?,is quite simply that people want to fit in,its a herd mentality and it is programmed into them from childhood and i also believe that 90% of the world has never even bothered to question whatever doctrine they have been born into,with some doctrines even now making this punishable by death.

How can people openly question such things when they live in fear of ridicule,being driven out of their community or even death depending on where they live?


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 4, 2008)

Thanks Nat..

So you suggest that people believe or disbelieve because it allows them to "fit in"..

is this correct?


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## natmoon (Jan 4, 2008)

I feel that that is one of the main reasons yes.
I think it all depends on where you live.
If you live in an American city no one would bat an eyelid if you said God sucked in the street,however if you lived in a small American town the likelihood of them being very angry with you is high and possibly even ostracizing you from the rest of the community.

Then again if you lived in the middle east and you said Allah sucked in the middle of a busy town or city they would probably stone you to death.

There are however many people that truly believe because they have faith and there are those that believe because they need a crutch but i think that this is probably only about 10% and the likelihood that the majority has even dared to question the bible,its origins and exactly what rogue dictator may have had his hands on those texts over the past 2000 years is something that should be highly questioned.

I for one will kill any God,*if i could*,that dares to burn my children whatever mistakes they may have made and i do not believe that any God that was good would do anything of the sort assuming that is that he/she even exists.

It all seem like a load of tosh to control the masses to me.

However having said all that i *choose* to believe in a higher power,i also believe that whatever it is is beyond the capability of my present state of mind to understand in any way shape or form.
I choose to follow the rules of my heart which are "If you hurt someone or something for no good reason then its wrong."

I must stop typing for fear of writing a whole rant whilst stoned and having no fingers left


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 4, 2008)

natmoon said:


> I for one will kill any God,*if i could*,that dares to burn my children whatever mistakes they may have made and i do not believe that any God that was good would do anything of the sort assuming that is that he/she even exists.



and you MY friend win the prize...

Imagine you are GOD... don't imagine...

YOU ARE GOD... NOW THINK how you treat the world.. think how you treat the animals and the people and everything in this world...

Imagine the deep compassion and love you would need FOR YOURSELF to accept the FACT that you have been treating ALL YOUR CHILDREN in this MANNER...

EATING your children, fooking your children, saying vile things to your children, having vile thoughts toward your children, masterbating to your children.. everything is YOUR CHILD!!!!

THIS is what is going on here...

YOU ARE GOD... and YOU can't accept it, because the pain and surrender and humility that ONE needs to go through.. to face ONESELF ... is so extraordinary.. that only the most HUMBLE of men can actually take the first STEP.. the first steo is to look in the INTERNAL mirror and love thy self..

and to stop treating YOUR CHILDREN with any negativity... no matter what they do to you...


A parent that hits a child goes through serious inner conflict... now think about the massive slaughtering we do to our children...

To awaken and realize that YOU are god.. is so painful and so liberating...
and so full of love..

just my guess... 

iloveyou


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## natmoon (Jan 4, 2008)

errr thats slightly over my head.
I understand the concept of a collective consciousness but i cant quite wrap my head around what your saying to be honest.
As for me being God,if i was or am or could be i seriously cant remember
I do want to hear more though.


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## mountainSpliff (Jan 5, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> and you MY friend win the prize...
> 
> Imagine you are GOD... don't imagine...
> 
> ...


Nice words! Never stop searching.


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## nomad (Jan 5, 2008)

it does not really matter who believes in what or who.
everybody has there own opinion.i have mine and yous have yours.no one will ever tell me what to believe.i have my own mind.some people follow others,that is there choice,some are indoctrinated to believe in things,i feel sorry for them but everyone who has written on this thread seems to know there own mind and believe in what they want to believe in.
i do believe in ghosts as i have seen one


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## WhatAmIDoing (Jan 5, 2008)

natmoon said:


> To my mind it would seem that if we live in an impossible universe then the answer must also be impossible because the question is.
> It is just as likely that we are mini gods in training as it is that we are nothing but worthless space dust in time.
> 
> Whichever one it is i don't pretend to know,but i do know that the universe and everything in it is against the laws of physics itself and therefore not possible at all.
> ...


That's what a linear view of time'll do for ya...


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## natmoon (Jan 5, 2008)

WhatAmIDoing said:


> That's what a linear view of time'll do for ya...


You try to define me as linear with a comment like that?
I am lmfao
Linearity
Any kind of life always requires a beginning.
Yes our universe is made of lines,its called string theory.

Even an imagined universe requires an imaginer.

Who or what do you propose imagined everything into existence on the basis that our and all other or not all other reality's are linear based life forms and who made that who or what that imagined that reality into existence


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## WhatAmIDoing (Jan 5, 2008)

natmoon said:


> You try to define me as linear with a comment like that?
> I am lmfao
> Linearity
> Any kind of life always requires a beginning.
> ...


 
Yes, yes. a classic question. well, what's real? Are you alive? How? What keeps you alive? What makes you as you are?Apply.

Ever think you're mind is simply limited? Things exist outside our common perspective my friend...


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## natmoon (Jan 5, 2008)

WhatAmIDoing said:


> Yes, yes. a classic question. well, what's real? Are you alive? How? What keeps you alive? What makes you as you are?Apply.
> 
> Ever think you're mind is simply limited? Things exist outside our common perspective my friend...


You can say things exist that we cant even fathom till the cows come home,still wont explain how you get a chicken with no egg and an egg with no chicken


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## el_maco (Jan 5, 2008)

undecided
in the while, I believe in MYSELF


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## skunkushybrid (Jan 6, 2008)

natmoon said:


> You can say things exist that we cant even fathom till the cows come home,still wont explain how you get a chicken with no egg and an egg with no chicken


 
Genetics is the study of cellular science. It furthers our understanding of how DNA and the genetic make-up of species and can lead to cures for diseases and shape our future. 
Which came first, the chicken or the egg? 


This question appears regularly in the question file, so let's take a shot at it. 
In nature, living things evolve through changes in their DNA. In an animal like a chicken, DNA from a male sperm cell and a female ovum meet and combine to form a *zygote* -- the first cell of a new baby chicken. This first cell divides innumerable times to form all of the cells of the complete animal. In any animal, every cell contains exactly the same DNA, and that DNA comes from the zygote. 
Chickens evolved from non-chickens through small changes caused by the mixing of male and female DNA or by mutations to the DNA that produced the zygote. These changes and mutations only have an effect at the point where a new zygote is created. That is, two non-chickens mated and the DNA in their new zygote contained the mutation(s) that produced the first true chicken. That one zygote cell divided to produce the first true chicken. Prior to that first true chicken zygote, there were only non-chickens. The zygote cell is the only place where DNA mutations could produce a new animal, and the zygote cell is housed in the chicken's egg. So, the egg must have come first.


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## natmoon (Jan 6, 2008)

skunkushybrid said:


> Genetics is the study of cellular science. It furthers our understanding of how DNA and the genetic make-up of species and can lead to cures for diseases and shape our future.
> Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
> 
> 
> ...


Thats great info skunky but my chicken was a proverbial chicken as was my egg.

I guess my real question and point is how did our entire universe and every other parallel universe and every other parallel reality come into existence from absolute nothing and absolute nowhere?


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## skunkushybrid (Jan 6, 2008)

natmoon said:


> Thats great info skunky but my chicken was a proverbial chicken as was my egg.
> 
> I guess my real question and point is how did our entire universe and every other parallel universe and every other parallel reality come into existence from absolute nothing and absolute nowhere?


Yes, i understood... but this is a proverbial answer. meaning that every question has an answer. 

If a god is explanation for the birth of the universe, then what is the explanation for the birth of this god?

If a god can come from nothing, then so can the universe.

Right now there is a planet being born, scientists are watching and learning about the birth of our own world from watching this unfold. Scientists now believe that planets are born much faster than previously believed, taking millions rather than billions of years.

Is a god shaping that planet now? And if so, for what purpose?


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## natmoon (Jan 6, 2008)

Thats also cool and i would like to know more about this new planet as well but i still believe that the universe is impossible and therefore some kind of simulation,maybe some kind of Actual Reality simulator like a hugely advanced virtual reality.

I don't pretend to have any kind of clue as to why or how but the universe is impossible according to physics anyway as there always has to be a beginning catalyst of some kind and as you said before if god made the universe who made god and so on and so on forever and ever.

Some people try to explain this away with the loops of infinity claim but this is also rubbish as even if you try to claim that time is an infinite loop the whole theory is bolloxed as if it was infinite it could never loop as an infinite loop is a contradiction in itself as if it was infinite it could never be a loop as loops are not infinite.

I say this is all impossible because there is no start point and no end point which has to suggest a kind of program of some kind.
Obviously way beyond programming of our understanding or level but a program never the less.

Mine is the old Tron theory i suppose if you want to break it down and it just goes as far in as it does out.
Nothing can just pop up from nowhere and nothing someone has to program it.

There are many kinds of programs and some of those as you know from your dna explanations create life.
They are still codes just as the crude computers we type on now.
Maybe we live in a giant dna computer owned by an omnipotent being of some kind i don't know but i still believe the universe to be impossible as we like to believe in it anyway.


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## Rocky Mountain High (Jan 6, 2008)

Sorry guys didn't have time to read the whole thread but wanted to add my $.02.

I have for some time believed that 'God' is simply 'Santa Claus' for adults. If you don't be good he will get you. He sees you when your sleeping and knows when your awake and if you don't go to church on Sunday and donate 10% of your earnings to the church you will be going to hell.

Another prime example, no pork in several religions. Why? It was killing people as they had no knowledge of curing pork, so how do you save your people? Tell them God Said So.

I do believe in the possibility of a higher power but I often find myself leaning towards the Native American belief in the spirits of elders. Is that agnostic?

As for the Bible, what a great book someone wrote from several perspectives. It is maybe the longest standing story ever. Problem is if you look into the 'books banned from the bible' you find so much contradictary information.

God sent one of his angels down on a dare from the devil? I thought god was immune to that sort of temptation? It says he did it to prove the devil wrong, isn't that egotistical? Why does he have anything to prove to anyone especially the devil? Then there is Mary Magdelon (sp) which blows so many catholic beliefs outta the water.

Additionally if catholic priests are servants of the lord, he needs a totally revamped system for hiring and qualifying these clowns. If they could marry and reproduce maybe they wouldn't be molesting little boys? After all pro creation is the strongest of all human desires after survival, why take what you (god) programmed and try to take it away or supress it? It's like having a great computer without a keyboard, it becomes useless.

sorry for the rant but I lost all religion when my father passed away and if there is a God, Fuck You Buddy!

I will create my own opportunities in this life and world and deal with you if and when the time comes.

rant over.


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## natmoon (Jan 6, 2008)

Dont get me wrong i don't believe in doctrine,just the fact there is a higher order of some kind whether that be spirit guides or angels who can know.
How any man can profess to know what god said or wants or does is utter madness any more than an ant can know what we want or say.


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## Rocky Mountain High (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks natmoon, I assumed I would get bashed outta here for that post.

I like the ant analogy, I'm with ya.

Like I said I believe in something but like you it doesn't come from doctrine.

I think as long as you are truly a 'good person' you will be fine and get the most out of life. I certainly believe in 'karma'.


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## WhatAmIDoing (Jan 6, 2008)

natmoon said:


> You can say things exist that we cant even fathom till the cows come home,still wont explain how you get a chicken with no egg and an egg with no chicken


Hee hee.

or will it?


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## closet.cult (Jan 6, 2008)

natmoon said:


> Thats great info skunky but my chicken was a proverbial chicken as was my egg.
> 
> I guess my real question and point is how did our entire universe and every other parallel universe and every other parallel reality come into existence from absolute nothing and absolute nowhere?


Well, If you consider the uncertainty principle of quantum mechanics and Feynman's two slit experiment we find that particles 'must' follow 'all possible paths'. 

while we may not fully understand why, this opens up many posiblities like Einstein said: 'Did god have any choice in the creation of the universe.'

Einstein did not believe god. As Richard Dawkins points out, that poetic statement should read: "Could the universe have begun in any other way?" and 'God does not play dice' should be: "Randomness does not lie at the heart of everything."

But Einstien was wrong on that one. Quantum mechanics proves that random, uncertainties of particals ARE responsible for condition of this and all the other possible parallel universes. LET ME REPEAT THAT: the random uncertain properties of particals LIE AT THE HEART OF OUR KNOWN UNIVERSE.

I personally view this as: Once the physical properties of the chemical elements were decided (by who or what we do not yet know) this universe, and any other parallel to it, are free to 'create' themselves. They represent 'the every possible path' that can be acheived. 

We occupy this universe and therefor are concerned with its principles. Thru the small window of the reflected and clouded glory of our present understanding we can marvel at its wonderous implications- none of which require a god person, yet. Meaning: everything we see so far moves forward in time without any need of assistance from a supernatural being. Its matter, evolving, re-creating itself into something new.

There is no reason to believe a supernatural force brought even the big bang into existance, if that is truly the beginning of this universe. It could be a function of any number of previously existing particals reaching a new possible path. As soon as you insist on including an invisible, unprovable god anywhere in the process you close you mind to limitless possiblities. 

From Darwin on, we continue to rightfully exclude god from the equation of science and THAT has been responsible for the greatest advancements of modern man.

If you believe in God and shut your mind to this, I can only promise you this: It is only when you break free of this god ceiling in your mind, that the true state of the universe will be apparent. Once you do, you will find yourself reaching the same conclusions of everyone else who studies the universe. It is, in fact, the only way to advance. Science is the study of the natural, not the supernatural.


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## natmoon (Jan 6, 2008)

I love the science behind theories its great but totally flawed in all aspects as none of them dare to suggest that the universe does not exist at all in fact.
Where did the first quantum particles come from?
You say they created themselves but yet there must still be a catalyst for the energy to become quantum particles in the first place.

God obviously didn't create the universe as someone had to create god in the first place.
This is the theory that most scientists are scared to encroach on in paper or in public for fear of religious repercussions and nutters attacking them or their families.

Physics states that in its simplest and purest form everything and anything that exists ethereal or physical,imagined or real needs a beginning.

I propose that the universe had no beginning because it was designed in the same format that we would design a computer program.
We write it *all* and *then* we run it.
We would appear to be,imo,inhabitants of this hugely complex and beautiful program.

This as all theories is exactly that a theory i have no clue as to what actually happened and what is true and i don't claim that my way is the right way,this is just what i have chosen to understand and believe


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## WhatAmIDoing (Jan 6, 2008)

^ So that'd be like the matrix then?

And yes, I can say things exist that we can't even fathom "till the cows come home". But haven't you said yourself you can't fathom the begining, or creation, or whatever? Yet it obviously exists to the extent that your mind makes it real--at the very least. It may be imaginary, but still your mind is making it real. sooo........yeah.


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## natmoon (Jan 6, 2008)

I am not a preacher,you are free to think anything you like.
It is entirely possible,as i have no proof otherwise and nor does anyone else, that no one exists except for you and that if you died we would all disappear as nothing more than creations of your mind to compensate for your own loneliness


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 6, 2008)

skunkushybrid said:


> Genetics is the study of cellular science. It furthers our understanding of how DNA and the genetic make-up of species and can lead to cures for diseases and shape our future.
> Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
> 
> 
> ...



wow... great read... even though i did not fully understand what I was reading it was great following your free flowing thought process..

iloveyou


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 6, 2008)

WOW.. fantastic read, THANK YOU CC

FYI - 
there are no parallel universes
no ghosts
no spiritual world
no physical world.
no evolution
no creationism

BUT these are all fantastic stories that POINT directly at what IS..

The uncertainty principal is a fantastic sign post into eternity and into what is real..


Dawkins could really contribute on such a higher level if he would learn to accept "GOD"... accept the unknown. and mesh his theories of evolution with the thought of conscious evolution... he is believing his own story..

no need to believe anything, as long as you intention is to get the truth 

the end




closet.cult said:


> Well, If you consider the uncertainty principle of quantum mechanics and Feynman's two slit experiment we find that particles 'must' follow 'all possible paths'.
> 
> while we may not fully understand why, this opens up many posiblities like Einstein said: 'Did god have any choice in the creation of the universe.'
> 
> ...


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## stonedroach (Jan 6, 2008)

God didn't create man, man created God


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## WhatAmIDoing (Jan 6, 2008)

natmoon said:


> I am not a preacher,you are free to think anything you like.
> It is entirely possible,as i have no proof otherwise and nor does anyone else, that no one exists except for you and that if you died we would all disappear as nothing more than creations of your mind to compensate for your own loneliness


Word.


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 6, 2008)

stonedroach said:


> God didn't create man, man created God




nice


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## natmoon (Jan 6, 2008)

Only sith deal in absolutes


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## Garden Knowm (Jan 6, 2008)

closet.cult said:


> From Darwin on, we continue to rightfully exclude god from the equation of science and THAT has been responsible for the greatest advancements of modern man.



I just re-read your post and I found this gem

I would propose that GOD is the uncertainty principal..

I would suggest that GOD is the UNKNOWN that is IN EVERY THEORY

I would suggest, that NOT realizing that this UNKNOWN is god and labeling it otherwise (such as the uncertainty principal) is what gives the illusion of separation.. physical from spiritual, form from formless.

MAN can not exlcude GOD... but he can re label GOD.. he can redifine the UNKNOWN... BUT it is clearly present...

The process that we have taken IS, what it is.. and I am not suggesting that it is wrong.. I am suggesting that the EVOLUTION of MAN is GOD... 

that

MAN evolves consciously (by becoming aware of GOD)... BUY letting go of his theories.. to make space for MORE GOD... and if GOD were included in SCIENCE... the two could work very well together..

God would be defined as the unknown..


That word "GOD" should be abolished.... LOL


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## natrone23 (Jan 6, 2008)

Dawkins has stated many times that there are things that are unknown such as what is before the big bang, but he has stated that science are working on the things that we consider to be unknown, just as they have done in the past, many things in the past were considered unknown and were often attributed to god. I think it is certainly possible that we might never know what was before the big bang.....but to suppose that was a creator or some supernatural answer would be a leap of faith, you can propose an infinite amount of possibilities such as a simulation, parrealel universes, ect.......but why not just say we don't know but we are working on it, like i said we might never be able to know. But we do have explanations why and how planets form, stars, galaxies and the origin of life and its evolution to the world we see today...........but wahatever happened before the big bang it is very unlikely that is the personal God that has interest in human affairs that most people have faith and devote their lives to.............GK why do we need a new word for the unknown......and I certainely wouldn't call the unknown...god because the modern description of god is that it some supernatural being that is responsible for earths creation and is somehow interested in human beings and on occasion intercedes to grant prayers to humans and requries devotion to god


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## HippyVibes (Jan 7, 2008)

Heres somthing 4 all use 2 watch could help u make yur mind up its not promoting any thing take a look its very intresting .

Watch What the #$*! Do We (K)now!? (2004) online for free

What i believ 2 be true i dont have 2 say b,coz i believe it to be true 

Peace Hippy


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## natmoon (Jan 7, 2008)

HippyVibes said:


> Heres somthing 4 all use 2 watch could help u make yur mind up its not promoting any thing take a look its very intresting .
> 
> Watch What the #$*! Do We (K)now!? (2004) online for free
> 
> ...


I have it on dvd,have done for years.
Was well worth watching and explains a lot of things.
A great watch


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## 3waterleaves (Feb 10, 2008)

Home_Grown said:


> Are you fucking retarded?
> 
> The Qu'ran states that Christians are infidels!
> 
> ...


 

Strike off thier heads??

BAAHAHAAH, that just somes up the queeran too easily. As if the supreme would state something like that, "infidels" or the like will be dealt with thru the universal law of karma, so if you want to go and suicide bomb or cut off peoples heads for THIER actions, then YOUR actions (for whatever reasons) will be dealt with accordingly. 

The Christian bible has similar shit in it too in the old testement go forth and slaughter this village or that, spare no woman or child, and blah blah blah, cmon you religious nuts, AS IF the supreme would state something like that, its hypocrisy and downright evil.

What you Christian and Muslim nutters are forgetting is that the books were written by MAN, that's right MAN. All men a fallible, inspired or not. Even Jesus suposedly lost his temper on an occasion or two, so get your brainwashed, shit covered heads out of your asses and see the light. Morons.

Of coarse we have all come from some supreme force, thats what connects us all and makes our spirits eternal. "God" is just mans name for it. There aint no way I believe we were randomly mutated from dirt, but that doesnt mean I don't believe in evolution either, they both go hand in hand to some degree. Both sides are provable if you are willing to see it.

Peace out my brothers


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## skunkushybrid (Feb 10, 2008)

Evolution is the truth... it is witnessable in the deepest of our oceans...

New life forms come into being all the time.

Essentially all life on this planet came from a single living thing. This is your god... or maybe not. Although this life-form is the ancestor of all life on this planet... there is still the birth of the planet to consider. When all the various pieces of rock and debris collided together to form the planet, maybge this is your god... or maybe not. Although the birth of this planet is the predecessor to all life on this planet... there is still the birth of the universe to consider, maybe the big bang is your god.

Either way they are all 'gods' as they form some type of catalyst to the world we live on today.

karma too, is not some extraneous force. It is a force of right and wrong that resides within us... and it will give you pain if you don't 'ask for forgiveness'... of course the person you are asking forgiveness from is yourself. If you do not or can not forgive yourself then your guilt will cause you much pain... could even be strong enough to kill you.

The time of magic and spirits should be vanquished forever... to a memory, similar to mocking fashions from the 70's.


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## Lacy (Feb 10, 2008)

*Has anyone seen Blaze? The last I heard from him, he was having a urine test and I think he failed.*

*I hope he is ok???? I like the dude*

*Blaze where are you????????????*


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## LiveHigh (Feb 10, 2008)

skunkushybrid said:


> Evolution is the truth... it is witnessable in the deepest of our oceans...
> 
> New life forms come into being all the time.
> 
> ...


Great post. It's good to know there are other intelligent people out there who aren't fooled by this simple world.


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## Garden Knowm (Feb 10, 2008)

I don' think evolution can be witnessed.. the only thing that can be witnessed is THE NOW.. not even time can be witnessed.. yet there is plenty of eveidence that time exists.. and plenty of eveidence that evolution exists.. but I don;t belive it can be witnessed.. 

This is VITAL when searching for the truth...

WITHOUT awareness of GOD, is evolution possible? Is it possible to evolve with consciousness? Is evolution and automated process.. or is evolution only possible through CONSCIOUSNESS?

iloveyou


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## LiveHigh (Feb 10, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> I don' think evolution can be witnessed.. the only thing that can be witnessed is THE NOW.. not even time can be witnessed.. yet there is plenty of eveidence that time exists.. and plenty of eveidence that evolution exists.. but I don;t belive it can be witnessed..
> 
> This is VITAL when searching for the truth...


What are you talking about?? It would be ignorant to assume that evolution can't be witnessed. Actually, it baffles me that someone would claim that on a marijuana GROWING website, of all things. You can sit and watch your plants grow...that's witnessing evolution.



Garden Knowm said:


> WITHOUT awareness of GOD, is evolution possible? Is it possible to evolve with consciousness? Is evolution and automated process.. or is evolution only possible through CONSCIOUSNESS?
> 
> iloveyou


Again...what??? How does being aware of a fictional being have anything to do with evolution?

Is it possible to evolve with consciousness? Heh. I don't think you understand consciousness very well. Consciousness is actually quite illusory. When our organic body's are working properly (i.e. sight, smell, taste, feel, hear, and most of all MEMORY, etc) it seems to bring up this illusion that it has created something, some form of 'consciousness' inside of our heads. Just because your body can remember its past, doesn't mean there's a 'YOU' inside there that has been there for the whole trip. Your body is simply working as intended...and seeing as how sight doesn't give you vision of your insides, or how your nerves or signals are being sent...it doesn't surprise me that it created a 'consciousness' ideology.

So no, it is not only possible to view evolution through consciousness. Because consciousness is an illusion. Evolution is ultimately witnessed by memory.

love you too


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## Garden Knowm (Feb 10, 2008)

LiveHigh said:


> What are you talking about?? It would be ignorant to assume that evolution can't be witnessed.
> 
> IS this true? What do you know that makes what I say IGNORANT? Why even bringme into the argument.. do the words I type effect YOU? If you were in the present, my words could not effect you? So if you are not in the present, where are you?
> 
> ...


iloveyou


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## Garden Knowm (Feb 10, 2008)

LiveHigh said:


> I don't think you understand consciousness very well.


you are correct.. i don't understand consciousness at all.. I am consciousness.. and its the best seat in the house 

iloveyou


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## LiveHigh (Feb 10, 2008)

IS this true? What do you know that makes what I say IGNORANT? Why even bringme into the argument.. do the words I type effect YOU? If you were in the present, my words could not effect you? So if you are not in the present, where are you?

*I didn't actually call you out on the argument. I said, "It would be ignorant to assume you can't witness evolution" But I can see now that it will just turn into a game of semantics on what you consider 'Witness'. Yes the words you type affect me. Because we're in a day and age where the words you type can be seen by me, even if it is at a different PRESENT time than when you typed it. This whole world impacts itself. Our world is nothing more than a string of reactions. Everything you've ever done in your life has been a reaction of your DNA with the environment around you. It's the same for everyone. Yes I realize what I'm saying means a lot. I could go all day about it, but it's pointless. Once you realize everything is a reaction, it all boils down to the same thing.*

*And what are you talking about with the, "If you're not in the present, where are you?" Everyone is in the present.*



Are you sure you can watch your plants grow.. or do you JUST think you can watch them grow? Do you know the difference between EXPERIENCE and THINKING? 

*What is your logic behind not being able to watch a plant grow? That if you were, for some reason, to sit and stare at a plant for 30 hours straight, that you wouldn't be able to actually see its growth. You would only be comparing it to previous times you've seen it? Again with the semantics. This reminds me of the shit religious people pull when they say, "A day could be anything!" in regards to how fast God supposedly created the earth. A day represents something...24 hours. Just like witnessing represents something. I realize that by 'witnessing' something, you're merely just seeing the present over and over and over again and comparing them...but that's just what witnessing is...you can't deny that.*

It is actually impossible to watch growth.. it is possible however to compare thought...

*Same thing...*

This does not make sense to people who are trapped in thought.. People who are trapped in thought,. don't actually know they are trapped in thought and therefore can not tell the difference between Observation/experience and thought...

*Everyone is trapped in thought. Everyone is trapped by their reactions. It is inescapable. Every single action you or anyone else has ever made in their entire life, was set in stone. Not that there is a being knowledgeable enough to foretell it. But, everything impacts everything else, and via constant reactions everything occurs. Think about when you make a decision. How much of that decision do you REALLY think you made? Did you send the brain signals personally? No. All you did was react your way into a situation, and react your way out. So therefore any "observation" or "experience" you feel you may have had was simply a different reaction.*

ONE can ONLY see NOW.. it is impossible to see the past or the future.... BUT MEMORIES cloud this UNFATHOMABLE perception (of the now) ..... the perception is further clouded by assessment of analysis... 

*I don't think anyone would argue this...What's your take on movies though? Do you think watching a movie is not a way of watching the past?*

you call it fictional because that is what you have made of it... accept that you do not know what god is.. and allow the unknown to permeate your life... scary.. cause then you'd have to give up the you.. the you that has to be RIGHT.. the you that has to be correct... i am not asking you to believe in GOd.. I myself don;t believe in God.... I am saying that you can experience LOVE once you give up "your story"

*It really depends what you're considering to be God. If you're speaking of ANY of the current religions higher powers...Yes...that is what I've made it and I know whole heartedly that it is bullshit. Whether or not there is a higher power out there though, I don't know. This universe is so vast that anything seems possible. *

*I also don't understand how one can let the unknown permeate through their life. When I analyze this paragraph, I think, "Okay. He's basically saying, "Accept that you aren't always right. Learn to just be" But that is impossible to follow. No one can not think they're right when they think they're right. You can't just be without trying to be and thinking its right.*

*No matter how you act, that's acting with intent and because that's how you feel you should act. It's impossible to escape yourself. I have stopped caring whether I live or die for two years, so trust me I've given up "my story". I realize that I'm just another life form on one of billions of planets, with a set DNA and environment that will create a 'life' or 'reality' for me. People rave about happiness, but I guarantee you can't remember 98% of the shit that's given you happiness in your life. Happiness is gone and replaced before you can enjoy it* 



love you too


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## "SICC" (Feb 10, 2008)

If You Doubt God Kill Ur Self And See What Happends....


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## LiveHigh (Feb 10, 2008)

Yeah good advice. Too bad I can't kill myself becaus I love you too much SICC!


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## "SICC" (Feb 10, 2008)

Haha


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## Garden Knowm (Feb 10, 2008)

Fantastic.. I thoroughly appreciate and enjoy reading your writing....

Why argue ONEs limitations? How about an experiment? An experiment in stillness..

An experiment that may allow perception or experience that does not require "thought" or "memory"

An experiment in stillness... I could not agree with you MORE.. regarding reaction...

But what of there was a stillness... imagine a balance and stillness so perfect that a ball the size of the earth could balance on the head of a needle... something so stable and so SECURE....that it no longer reacted.... 

Such an experiment exists... such stillness exits... IT's called the present moment.. There is no religion in the present moment.. There are no tricky semantics being played... 

What eludes words is the same thing that eludes those concerned with the MINDs interpretation of the world... this is the present moment...

Many people make the attempt top get a glimpse... Vipassana Meditation Website
It can not be an attempt... it has to BE DONE... 

The mind is a doing machine.. even when ONE says they are "not doing anything", the mind is actually "DOING" nothing...

BUT it is possible to do NO THING.... but it is not possible for the mind to do this or to even comprehend this... this is where I suspect the confusion lies in our dialogue...

People have awareness... yet they have pointed at there mind.... and forgotten that THEY are AWARENESS.. and not the mind.... Once ONE connects with awareness...ONE can not be effected by my word.. your words.. or even ONE's death..... 

Sanity begins to creep IN.. only one realizes that THEY are nothing more than a body...

If I smash "your car" with a sledge hammer and that effects "YOU" then you are 1 million miles away from awareness.. NOTHING on the outside Can effect awareness..

and nothing on the inside can affect awareness either...

It is still all experienced... but it does not effect the BALANCED BALL of stillness

iloveyou


iloveyou


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## natmoon (Feb 10, 2008)

If life the universe and everything itself is impossible then there must logically be a creator.

There is no other logical answer.

Because we live in a universe that cannot logically or even mathematically exist we must then assume that there is a creator of some kind.
Kind of like an AI computer program finally working out the fact that its just a simulation all though the intellect has evolved from the simulation.

Ascension if you like.

I don't think that i or anyone else can really offer any *real* insight as to what,how,why,who,where,when he/she/it/god said about anything if they even said anything at all in the first place.

People know in their hearts that the universe is impossible and they don't like it so some choose to believe nothing and some choose to believe in God.

Both are ultimately crutches to the same end and for the same reason,to increase their level of realness and keep their concepts of reality in a place that they feel comfortable with.

I choose to believe that there must be a positive source and a negative source.
I choose to believe that i can draw on either in myself and from the universe around me for energy when i need it.

And i believe that Jesus existed and that he was a cool dude who talked to much and gave away free weed and oil to help lepers the poor and sick etc. that he wasn't supposed to do so they caned the crap out of him and crucified him when he failed to stop doing it.

Maybe Jesus was the first weed head to make a stand against assholes and corruption and we also have to remember that people were deeply religious and that much of what is said is open to interpretation and the fact that what Jesus really did was upset the apple cart,talk to much and give away free weed.


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 10, 2008)

Some say consciessness happened when we were trying new easier ways to hunt game and in turn the nutrients in the meat caused a rapid growth and development of the brain. Kind of a spiral effect. The more clever we became at hunting, the more meat we would get, the bigger our brains would get. +1

Now days we are so clever that we don't even know what is in our food anymore.


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 10, 2008)

natmoon said:


> Maybe Jesus was the first weed head to make a stand against assholes and corruption and we also have to remember that people were deeply religious and that much of what is said is open to interpretation and the fact that what Jesus really did was upset the apple cart,talk to much and give away free weed.


 
Classic example of people making religion suit themselves.


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## Joe2iisbeing (Feb 11, 2008)

i only believe science and what we know to be true.However im open to the possibility of a higher being, but all religion is nonsense. As far as im concerned our whole universe could be one big experiment in a larger being's labratory. 

This movie is 3 parts: Jesus The "Sun" of God, 9/11, and the corruption of the US gov't.
Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007
Its almost 2 hours long but its well worth the watch. Real eye opener.


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## LiveHigh (Feb 11, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> Fantastic.. I thoroughly appreciate and enjoy reading your writing....
> 
> Why argue ONEs limitations? How about an experiment? An experiment in stillness..
> 
> ...


Wow. I love talking with you. That is no lie. You seriously just opened my eyes with that talk about awareness. It's sort of strange, I feel kind of invigorated. The stillness is still iffy for me. I don't know whether I grasp it so easily that I feel I'm not grasping it, or I just flat out can't wrap my mind around it. But, I do understand the perfectness of the present.

edit: What I realized is that despite knowing that I'm not my mind. I attributed myself to being it. While really I am just the awareness. It makes me feel disconnected from my body. Yet more connected at the same time. Great feeling.

Teach me more

love you too


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## 3waterleaves (Feb 11, 2008)

skunkushybrid said:


> Evolution is the truth... it is witnessable in the deepest of our oceans...
> 
> New life forms come into being all the time.
> 
> ...


 
I do believe evolution is true, You don't have to look into the deepest of our oceans, just look at man. We are born as babies, grow into boys, into young men, into mature men, then finally into old men. The same happens not only with our physical bodies, but our physical and non physical minds too. If an old man looks back at his photo of when he was a baby, well damn if that's not evoloution I don't know what is.

Perhaps I don't agree with certain evolutionary theories is all, such as you probably think that we evolved from dirt into fish, into land animals into humans or something like that, well Skunk, what exactly do you believe to be true on that front?

Do you think just because the ape has 98% similar dna to our own that we evolved from monkies or apes? If so I'd like to ask the age old question of why arn't there any half evolved apes today, or in the near past? I.E talking apes or something similar. Sure it takes "millions of years" for the thoery, but in my eyes, there are apes, and there are humans, not in an between. And there should be if that theory was true, shouldn't there?

So then, where did everyliving thing, we have today come from, you say the earth. Ok where did the come from, the Universe you say, Ok where did the Universe come from, the big bang you say, alright, what created the big bang? And what created the anomoly that created the creation of the big bang? And so on and so forth we go, until it becomes clear that you can't get what we have, from nothing. Just take a look at nature, its sheer beauty. There is no way in my mind that it's random evolution or you could look at the complexity of the human body. It is definately created purposfully, and perfectly for us to live. But look at what we are doing to it, killing it.

In regards to Karma, I think yes it is ourselves that bring us to the point of where we want forgiveness, but forgiveness comes through learning never to do it again. You have to see the opposite side to what you have done to be able to really and truly learn. External circumstance is what you have to realise we bring upon ourselves in order to be forgiven, to learn. I'll say it again as I have said it before, whether we like to think it or not, whether we can see it or not, whether we can be big enough to take responsibility for it or not, every circumstance that happens to us is somehow, someway brought upon us, by us. I also believe that certain lessons, may be to big, to horrific to learn in the one lifetime, and perhaps that is why people for no seemingly good reason, are born with phobias, born without legs, arms, eyes, a dick, a clit, born in africa, born then are confined to a wheelchair and so on and so forth.

I truly believe, at the beginning of our existence, we were all born from the one supreme energy, equally. It is up to us how much we want to evolve.

Peace out Brother and Sisters


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## 3waterleaves (Feb 11, 2008)

mountainSpliff said:


> Classic example of people making religion suit themselves.


Yes, and your point?

Religion is man made bud, man wrote all that shit down, not "god".

Your a fool to think otherwise.


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## kayasgarden (Feb 11, 2008)

i am spiritual and i beleive many powers far greater than myself exsist. I do not beleive in god.................


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## skunkushybrid (Feb 11, 2008)

Yeah i remember that lacy. Come on blaze where are you buddy?


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 11, 2008)

3waterleaves said:


> Yes, and your point?
> 
> Religion is man made bud, man wrote all that shit down, not "god".
> 
> Your a fool to think otherwise.


 
Oh my fuckin GOD!! I was joking with natmoon you fookin stoopid kunt. lol

If you had read this whole thread you would seen that I am atheist.

People who shoot their mouths off!! lol lol lol 

God bless you.


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## Garden Knowm (Feb 11, 2008)

3waterleaves said:


> Yes, and your point?
> 
> Religion is man made bud, man wrote all that shit down, not "god".
> 
> Your a fool to think otherwise.



Religion is man made....?

Are you sure about that? Are you sure that "man" can actually make anything?

I love you


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## natmoon (Feb 11, 2008)

There is no spoon


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## Garden Knowm (Feb 11, 2008)

LiveHigh said:


> edit: What I realized is that despite knowing that I'm not my mind. I attributed myself to being it. While really I am just the awareness. It makes me feel disconnected from my body. Yet more connected at the same time. Great feeling.
> 
> 
> 
> love you too



This disconnected whle fully connected is exactly what I am tryig to point at...

The body is the perfect tool to help redirect awareness from the mind.. to the body.... during this shift.. one becomes fully aware of the "BODY"...

Becoming 100% aware of the body is tantamount to being 100% aware of the entire cosmos...

The entire cosmos... is GODs body.... KIND of... lol 

Becoming 100% of the body is a life long process.. there is no end to how deep ONE can go into the SENSATIONS of the body.. just as there is no end to how deep one can go into the cosmos....

THE HUMAN BODY is made in the image of GOD... sort of... lol...

Through SITTING still and NON reaction..... NON reaction to both the inner and the outter... ONE can cultivate enough awareness to BREAK away from the "control" mind and redirect awareness to the body .. and complete stillness...

WHAT really surprises me is that YOU seem to know that everything is just a reaction... It usually can not be KNOWN that everything is a reaction... until ONE experiences complete stillness.... apparently you have had a glimpse...


iloveyou


It is impossible to wrap ONE's head around this... it can only be pointed AT... when ever I feel oke I have my head wrapped around "IT"... I realize that I am trapped in the mind.. again.. LOL

ONCE we get stuck in the mind, we start to "understand" and "know" things..

KNowing things is the same as arguing YOUr limitations...

iloveyou


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## Garden Knowm (Feb 12, 2008)

BTW.. don't let the word "GOD" through you for a loop... it is just a place holder for the UNKNOWN.... we can call it "space" or "no thing" ... or "kunt breath"

iloveyou


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## LiveHigh (Feb 12, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> This disconnected whle fully connected is exactly what I am tryig to point at...
> 
> The body is the perfect tool to help redirect awareness from the mind.. to the body.... during this shift.. one becomes fully aware of the "BODY"...
> 
> ...


I don't know where to start. Talking with you last night has really put a lot together for me. From the stuff I've come to know previously (i.e. reaction, etc) and the stuff I learned last night...I feel as though I've had a number of glimpses into stillness now. When I, as you put it 'connect' with awareness, I feel as though I'm sitting outside my body watching it.

I now feel as though I am as much a part of everything in sight as I am my body. And why limit it there? I'm as much a part of anything as I am my body. But why, why is what I call 'my awareness' limited to my body's vision and feeling. Or is it?

I completely understand what you meant with your earlier post when you said to the effect of, "When you are connected with awareness you cannot be affected by outside things or even one's death" But wouldn't the awareness that I am be gone if my body ceased to function?

_KNowing things is the same as arguing YOUr limitations..._
- I like that quote...

love you too


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## Garden Knowm (Feb 12, 2008)

LiveHigh said:


> I completely understand what you meant with your earlier post when you said to the effect of, "When you are connected with awareness you cannot be affected by outside things or even one's death" But wouldn't the awareness that I am be gone if my body ceased to function?



I would love to tell you that I know the answer to this question.... ahahahahah

AWARENESS does not appear to have any permanent connection with birth or death or anything in between... 

It appears to me that AWARENESS is LIFE... and LIFE transforms and evolves and contracts... and expands... 

YET it does not CEASE to exist.... 

the opposite of birth is death... 
LIFE has no opposite...

WHAT is important is to practice stillness... and more stillness... and stillness within stillness. and to NOT get attached or react to any sensations while making the JOURNEY inward... or outward...



DO you experience deep and over whelming affection for ALL of MAN KIND?

iloveyou


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## Garden Knowm (Feb 12, 2008)

natmoon said:


> There is no spoon




lol... i like .. i like very much!

iloveyou


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## Zekedogg (Feb 12, 2008)

I like spam


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## LiveHigh (Feb 12, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> I would love to tell you that I know the answer to this question.... ahahahahah
> 
> AWARENESS does not appear to have any permanent connection with birth or death or anything in between...
> 
> ...


Yes and no. I feel I do when I 'practice stillness' as you say (or as I view it; focusing on what I know to be true, and then 'connecting' to awareness). But I find it easy to get sucked into the thinking mind, and in my thinking mind I'd definitely not love someone who cut me off;P

I know that all man kind is equally as irresponsible for any action they ever have or will make in their life. I am probably one of few people who actually has compassion for killers, and rapist. Because I know they couldn't have done differently, and the ride of their life must be an unpleasant one. I also know now that while my body might harness my awareness, everything I am aware of is of equal importance. My body runs itself, and I am merely the witness of its running. And when you are merely a witness to something, it is of no more significance than anything else you are witnessing. So my answer is: When I'm not sucked into the thinking mind (or atleast when I'm as connected as I can be to my awareness and realizations) I love everyone equally and have much compassion for man kind, yes. But when I am consumed by the thinking mind, I'm no different than the average man as far as compassion goes.

_AWARENESS does not appear to have any permanent connection with birth or death or anything in between..._ 
-Well. It does seem that while awareness might not be entirely present at birth, or who knows when...it definitely didn't exist (heh as I'm writing this I'm thinking of explanations...) I was going to say...it definitely didn't exist before birth. But, the more I think about awareness, without being 'in tune or connected' with it...the more I feel awareness must be caused by energy. And it may be possible that awareness existed before birth, but without awareness of memory and the abilities of it, how would I know?

Tricky stuff...

love you too


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 12, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> BTW.. don't let the word "GOD" thow you for a loop... it is just a place holder for the UNKNOWN.... we can call it "space" or "no thing" ... or "kunt breath"
> 
> iloveyou


 
freakin lolling my ass off 

wooooooooooooo 

love it


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## peadrojones (Feb 12, 2008)

Iesus is GOD I pray for all of you to meet the LORD thy GOD!!! There is a trinity GOD the FATHER the soone Iesus and HOLY SPIRIT!!! there is a powerful oposing force also the unholy trinity the antichrist ect.. the devil controls this world today GOD allows him to roam the earth free to intervine on free will and actions of self pleasure the power of Iesus is superior over all call him seek and you will find. I dont agree with alot of churches because they act 2much like business instead the loving help it should be giving they demand a tenth an accuse people of robing GOD while they are so wraped up in the world is not doing a bit of good other than getting themselves rich selfish humans is all we are some just more than others with love to all of the LORDS children.


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 12, 2008)




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## natmoon (Feb 12, 2008)




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## MJ89 (Feb 12, 2008)

3waterleaves said:


> Yes, and your point?
> 
> Religion is *man made* bud, man wrote all that shit down, not "god".
> 
> Your a fool to think otherwise.


God was speaking through his disciples. That his how the many books of the bible were written. The King James Version is currently the number one selling book in the world and it has not been altered like all the other versions where man has actually went and changed it such as the version catholics follow. And of course the New King James version is fucked up.


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## Garden Knowm (Feb 13, 2008)

LiveHigh said:


> Yes and no. I feel I do when I 'practice stillness' as you say (or as I view it; focusing on what I know to be true, and then 'connecting' to awareness). But I find it easy to get sucked into the thinking mind, and in my thinking mind I'd definitely not love someone who cut me off;P
> 
> I know that all man kind is equally as irresponsible for any action they ever have or will make in their life. I am probably one of few people who actually has compassion for killers, and rapist. Because I know they couldn't have done differently, and the ride of their life must be an unpleasant one. I also know now that while my body might harness my awareness, everything I am aware of is of equal importance. My body runs itself, and I am merely the witness of its running. And when you are merely a witness to something, it is of no more significance than anything else you are witnessing. So my answer is: When I'm not sucked into the thinking mind (or atleast when I'm as connected as I can be to my awareness and realizations) I love everyone equally and have much compassion for man kind, yes. But when I am consumed by the thinking mind, I'm no different than the average man as far as compassion goes.
> 
> ...



BRO - you really should get a practice.. you ARE ON TARGET.. time to cultivate that stillness!!

love


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## LiveHigh (Feb 13, 2008)

Garden Knowm said:


> BRO - you really should get a practice.. you ARE ON TARGET.. time to cultivate that stillness!!
> 
> love


Thanks a lot. Talking with you over a couple of nights has done more for me than you would ever imagine. I appreciate your time very much.

What kind of practice do you mean? Any suggestions?

love you too


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## 3waterleaves (Feb 13, 2008)

peadrojones said:


> Iesus is GOD I pray for all of you to meet the LORD thy GOD!!! There is a trinity GOD the FATHER the soone Iesus and HOLY SPIRIT!!! there is a powerful oposing force also the unholy trinity the antichrist ect.. the devil controls this world today GOD allows him to roam the earth free to intervine on free will and actions of self pleasure the power of Iesus is superior over all call him seek and you will find. I dont agree with alot of churches because they act 2much like business instead the loving help it should be giving they demand a tenth an accuse people of robing GOD while they are so wraped up in the world is not doing a bit of good other than getting themselves rich selfish humans is all we are some just more than others with love to all of the LORDS children.


Sadly, another brainwashed Christian who thinks if they preach their shit on here it will get them into "heaven" Can you Christians not speak ANY words of your own?

Heaven is within my friend, this I will agree on.

Poor, poor souls *shakes heads*


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## 3waterleaves (Feb 13, 2008)

MJ89 said:


> God was speaking through his disciples. That his how the many books of the bible were written. The King James Version is currently the number one selling book in the world and it has not been altered like all the other versions where man has actually went and changed it such as the version catholics follow. And of course the New King James version is fucked up.


Ok, what was the original, and from what time did it come from, before or after the many councils of Niccea ? Constantine had a field day with Christianity and twisted and perverted it to suit his own needs and the needs of all the governing bodies at the time.

You poor souls really think that not one word of that has been altered? How about all the parts that have been left out or added to over the years, and yes its proven. "ohh, but not the King James version" bahaha, you make me laugh, you really do. Sorry not offence meant, it's just stupidity and ignorance of your behalf and you need to wake up. Christianity is a fear based religion, and all religions are made made, inspired or not.

So then, what is the original, was there ever one? Sorry my tunnel visioned brother, there are way too many variables that have happened over the last 2000 years for me to believe what you say. But if your happy, so be it.

A Christian friend of mine always goes one about how there are 2 billion Christians and that the bible is the best selling book of all time. Well thats just it, its a book. Not to mention the fact that the western world ( who is mostly Christian) is as corrupt as any civilisation, if not the worst. So then my firend, where are the Christian fundamentals shining through, with all these sales and Christians in the world?

All I get from my friend lately, is that "oh but they arn't true Christians" bahahaha.

I feel for you guys I really do. My advice, become spiritual, not a religion fanatic. Think for yourself brother.


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## WeFallToday (Feb 13, 2008)

I belive in a higher form.

I don't belive he/she/it looks like a human

But more of a type of planet

I belive in earth,and the universe.And that in some other galaxy theres a higher being that created everything


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## Gygax1974 (Feb 13, 2008)

WeFallToday said:


> I belive in a higher form.
> 
> I don't belive he/she/it looks like a human
> 
> ...


A force of nature and science......the only thing I know about GOD is we kill each other over our different beliefs....


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## natmoon (Feb 14, 2008)

I also agree that the bible has been seriously altered and messed with.
Many books have been removed and many kings have changed whats been written to suit themselves.

This is why i only choose to listen to the lost Aramaic texts written by Jesus and declared as blasphemy by the Vatican.
I have a high enough IQ to realize that God doesn't float on a cloud with a trumpet burning people for wanking.

What you have to understand is that there is a lot of difference between what Jesus really said and did and what is written into the bibles.
Its the oldest cover up in the game,thats all.


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## closet.cult (Feb 14, 2008)

not this thread again.

just think: would you let a doctor practice surgery on you if he had only studied ONE book, and it was 3,000 years old?!

why would anyone listen to a preacher who takes every life lesson he teaches from a book written 2 to 4,000 years ago. the people back then didn't know shit about ANYTHING! they were superstitious commoners without any knowledge of the natural world and sciences.


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## karo (Feb 14, 2008)

Cosmology baby ...Cosmology

"Weres your God now, ehhh?" -Edward G Robinson


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 14, 2008)

closet.cult said:


> not this thread again.
> 
> just think: would you let a doctor practice surgery on you if he had only studied ONE book, and it was 3,000 years old?!
> 
> why would anyone listen to a preacher who takes every life lesson he teaches from a book written 2 to 4,000 years ago. the people back then didn't know shit about ANYTHING! they were superstitious commoners without any knowledge of the natural world and sciences.


lol Some doctors these days are still pretty scary though.


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 14, 2008)

natmoon said:


> I also agree that the bible has been seriously altered and messed with.
> Many books have been removed and many kings have changed whats been written to suit themselves.
> 
> This is why i only choose to listen to the lost Aramaic texts written by Jesus and declared as blasphemy by the Vatican.
> ...


I agree with you 100% Nat. I belive Jesus was the son of God and we should live by his words. The hard part is figuring out what his words were. Considering they have been changed many times throughout the centureis to benefit those that changed them. Where do you find these Aramic texts, you speak of? I would love to read them.


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## natmoon (Feb 14, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> I agree with you 100% Nat. I belive Jesus was the son of God and we should live by his words. The hard part is figuring out what his words were. Considering they have been changed many times throughout the centureis to benefit those that changed them. Where do you find these Aramic texts, you speak of? I would love to read them.


Here is a short film about this for you to have a look at.
POT-TV: New Film! The Fire Baptism and the Lost Sacraments


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 14, 2008)

natmoon said:


> Here is a short film about this for you to have a look at.
> POT-TV: New Film! The Fire Baptism and the Lost Sacraments


I already knew all that. I need more! Thanks man


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## nomad (Feb 14, 2008)

has anyone actually met god or jesus or knows of anyone that has? or knows of anyone who has been to heaven or hell?
because until that day when someone can actually prove to me that any of the above do exist i am not gonna believe in any of this.
i do not preach to you about not believing so please do not preach to me about believing in somethings that obviously have never and will never exist.
although it is good to hear some of the crazy answers and beliefs people have been brainwashed into believing.


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## LiveHigh (Feb 14, 2008)

Two things. 1) It's just as impossible for there to be a God that created the world, as it is for there to be a world in the first place. So saying, "There has to be something that created it, because the world is impossible in itself." is just ridiculous. If you want a good question to ponder about, think about what 'nothing' is. Or if 'nothing' is even possible. The human mind can't really comprehend there being 'nothing'. What if it's impossible for there to be 'nothing' and we just don't know what 'something' is.

2) Nat, you're trying too hard to believe. You're no different than any other religious man that skews things to fit their liking. The fact of the matter is Jesus was just another human being. I personally think he was a crazy fuck, but that's just me. I understand why people believe him. It had to have happened sooner or later. The human mind needs to have a reason why we're here. It needs someone to believe.

Anyways, the fact of the matter is. We're in a day and age when technology and science is increasing at such a fast rate that within 20 years no one will be dying. It will be impossible for any sane person to believe in Jesus or any form of man-made God in the next 20 years. So why waste your time believing it now?

The whole world would benefit greatly if it could come to its senses. Realize that everything is a reaction. Realize that they aren't their bodies, but merely the awareness of them.

When you can grasp that everything is a reaction and that we are the awareness of our bodies, you gain a whole new perspective on life. You realize that all human beings are just different phenotypes of the human DNA reacting with different parts of a very large environment. You understand the capabilities of man, the reason why people act the way they do. The reason why people think they have control over what they do.

Peace comes in understanding, not in thousands of years old text.


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## natmoon (Feb 14, 2008)

Seems to me that your all just making assumptions and hoping that yours are correct and then trying to convince me that i am either dumb and/or misguided.

History states that Jesus existed.
As for God,of course i cannot prove it.
All i can say for sure is that life the universe and everything is impossible and that if you are truly clever then you can find only one logical conclusion to that question/problem


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## Novex (Feb 14, 2008)

natmoon said:


> Seems to me that your all just making assumptions and hoping that yours are correct and then trying to convince me that i am either dumb and/or misguided.
> 
> History states that Jesus existed.
> As for God,of course i cannot prove it.
> *All i can say for sure is that life the universe and everything is impossible and that if you are truly clever then you can find only one logical conclusion to that question/problem*


 
Im gonna have to back you up on that one Nat - I dont know if you would be interested but theres a series called Steven Hawkings Universe that has some solid stuff it in. (would be boring if your not into the subject tho)

Specifically talking about the one named "An Answer to Everything" a guy talks about the timing it would have taken for the universe to expand during the Big Bang.

&#8220;What was always needed and nobody really pointed this out, is that you would have to assume the early expansion rate of the universe was tuned almost exactly right, that is almost exactly the right expansion rate so that the universe would be just on the verge of eternal expansion verses eventually collapse. If one talks about the universe at a time of about 1 second after the big bang, this tuning or precise fixing of the expansion rate, had to be done to an accuracy of about 15 decimal places. If the universe just expanded 1 part in the 15th decimal place faster then we thought it had it would fly apart without galaxies ever having a chance to form. If the universe after 1 second after the big bang was expanding with 1 number less then the 15th decimal place then what we thought then the universe would collapse before any galaxies had a chance to form. To make the universe work it had to be perched right on this borderline&#8221;

I dont know about you guys, but that pretty much proves the existence of God to me. I believed in God before I found that info, but it just solidifies my beliefs more I guess.

Just to give you an idea of how small 15 decimal places is.... a nanosecond is 10^9 of a second, or 1 billionth of a second (.000000001)

10^15 of a second (.000000000000001) is a Femtosecond. A *femtosecond* is one billionth of one millionth of a second. For context, a femtosecond is to a second, what a second is to about 32 million years. (taken from Wikipedia cuz I had no freakin clue what was faster then a nanosecond)

Just something to think about...


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## mastakoosh (Feb 14, 2008)

i met jesus so i will prove he is real. i met him in el paso and he drove an old impala. he had dark hair and wore cowboy boots. so i know he is real.


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 15, 2008)

Well once when I took this really strong acid I met god. It was pretty amazing actually. God I love acid. lol

I think the whole spiritual concept came from the depths of our over active imaginations.

Peace!


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## nomad (Feb 15, 2008)

mastakoosh said:


> i met jesus so i will prove he is real. i met him in el paso and he drove an old impala. he had dark hair and wore cowboy boots. so i know he is real.


 
what size an colour were the said cowboy boots an did they have a pattern?
what is el paso like?


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## HazyEyes (Feb 15, 2008)

THe most important thing is to remember we not have anything to realy prove both subjects God or Big Bang but in my eye the big bang is ALOT easier to beleave but i do beleave in some sort of higher power, this is because its also hard for me to think that how does every thing have such intelligence to Grow and develop like how does a plant KNOW to grow ??? how does a baby know to transform from a sperm and egg to a living breathing thing??? Also God helps people get thought things like my father just died last year from cancer and even do i don't think there is a REALLY haven i think this life on this plant is not the end i mean it cant be AND this has been proven because one can not get rid of matter and i know most of a persons matter goes into several places the dirt, to the worms, and were ever else but its proven that some of our matter does not just disappear ... and what happens to our energy ??? and also most important Were does on draw the line between mind and the brain,.... mind is aka Soul ??? is the soul a physical thing or none physical??? answer this question with thought because if u do not beleave that the mind is a physical thing then u must have a soul that goes somewhere after death because its not a physical thing and can not be bounded to a dead body... this is my 2 cents


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## da man1 (Feb 15, 2008)

I've never met or seen the wind but that does'nt mean it doesn't exist.
It takes just as much faith to disbelieve as it does to believe. It also depends on what you are looking for. If you look for ways to disprove the existance of God you will find them and if you look for proof of the existance you will find it as well. Are you a good finder or do you look for the negative in most things?


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## da man1 (Feb 15, 2008)

HazyEyes said:


> THe most important thing is to remember we not have anything to realy prove both subjects God or Big Bang but in my eye the big bang is ALOT easier to beleave but i do beleave in some sort of higher power, this is because its also hard for me to think that how does every thing have such intelligence to Grow and develop like how does a plant KNOW to grow ??? how does a baby know to transform from a sperm and egg to a living breathing thing??? Also God helps people get thought things like my father just died last year from cancer and even do i don't think there is a REALLY haven i think this life on this plant is not the end i mean it cant be AND this has been proven because one can not get rid of matter and i know most of a persons matter goes into several places the dirt, to the worms, and were ever else but its proven that some of our matter does not just disappear ... and what happens to our energy ??? and also most important Were does on draw the line between mind and the brain,.... mind is aka Soul ??? is the soul a physical thing or none physical??? answer this question with thought because if u do not beleave that the mind is a physical thing then u must have a soul that goes somewhere after death because its not a physical thing and can not be bounded to a dead body... this is my 2 cents


Seems to me if God said "Let there be light!" The "Big bang" would probably make a pretty big light.


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## da man1 (Feb 15, 2008)

Novex said:


> Im gonna have to back you up on that one Nat - I dont know if you would be interested but theres a series called Steven Hawkings Universe that has some solid stuff it in. (would be boring if your not into the subject tho)
> 
> Specifically talking about the one named "An Answer to Everything" a guy talks about the timing it would have taken for the universe to expand during the Big Bang.
> 
> ...


Dude, you think way to much!


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## LiveHigh (Feb 15, 2008)

Novex said:


> Im gonna have to back you up on that one Nat - I dont know if you would be interested but theres a series called Steven Hawkings Universe that has some solid stuff it in. (would be boring if your not into the subject tho)
> 
> Specifically talking about the one named "An Answer to Everything" a guy talks about the timing it would have taken for the universe to expand during the Big Bang.
> 
> ...


You say that like it's incredibly rare that it happened. The universe may have failed and collapsed on itself 5 billion times before it happened perfectly. You're basically looking at what had to happen, and saying, "Wow, that's unbelievable!" But the only reason it had to happen like that, is to produce what we have now. That's like looking at a soccer ball and saying, "Wow, every thread had to be performed perfectly to form this soccer ball."


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## email468 (Feb 15, 2008)

There currently is no evidence to support believing in some kind of god. But I like to keep an open mind. The evidence certainly does point away from some kind of interfering or anthropomorphic being of most monotheistic religions.

Now faith on the other hand is very hard for me to consider some kind of virtue. Believing in something without evidence is bad enough but believing in something IN SPITE of the evidence is, to me, a significantly worse and dangerous way of thinking.

I wish I could recall who said it - but I love this quote: "It takes nothing for an evil man to commit evil acts but in order for a good man to commit evil acts it takes religion".

And here is a sound bite from Richard Dawkins that I agree with: "When you fully understand why you dismiss the thousands of other Gods humans worship, then you'll understand why I dismiss yours."


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 16, 2008)

da man1 said:


> I've never met or seen the wind but that does'nt mean it doesn't exist.
> It takes just as much faith to disbelieve as it does to believe. It also depends on what you are looking for. If you look for ways to disprove the existance of God you will find them and if you look for proof of the existance you will find it as well. Are you a good finder or do you look for the negative in most things?


 
So you have never seen the wind blowing dust around? When you meet someone you shake their hand, when the wind blows it ruffles your hair. I believe you have met the wind. Why would god create negative and positive? So we can be happy half the time and unhappy the rest of the time?! Why can he achieve a perfect balance in nature and yet not with humans? Is he incapable or negligent? 

What has spirituality ever achieved on a personal level besides a selfish comfort?

Religion itself is nothing more than a powerful money making control tool.

If there is a god, it is savage and the joke is on us. It must have no conscience to witness the continual murder, rape, slavery of helpless children. Children who very often too young to have even heard of a god.


GOD is a spineless, pathetic figment of the imagination. 

I wish people could stop being so selfish with their petty beliefs and rather focus on the bigger picture. The here, now and future. 

Spliff anyone?


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## karo (Feb 16, 2008)

email468 said:


> There currently is no evidence to support believing in some kind of god. But I like to keep an open mind. The evidence certainly does point away from some kind of interfering or anthropomorphic being of most monotheistic religions.
> 
> Now faith on the other hand is very hard for me to consider some kind of virtue. Believing in something without evidence is bad enough but believing in something IN SPITE of the evidence is, to me, a significantly worse and dangerous way of thinking.
> 
> ...


 
Amen Brother!!


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## karo (Feb 16, 2008)

mountainSpliff said:


> So you have never seen the wind blowing dust around? When you meet someone you shake their hand, when the wind blows it ruffles your hair. I believe you have met the wind. Why would god create negative and positive? So we can be happy half the time and unhappy the rest of the time?! Why can he achieve a perfect balance in nature and yet not with humans? Is he incapable or negligent?
> 
> What has spirituality ever achieved on a personal level besides a selfish comfort?
> 
> ...


I think mabye more people would concure if they have seen what you have seen (were you live).It will make a non beliver out of you in a heart beat.Most of these posts show that most people have not sought out there own knowledge/wisedom on this topic.I belive there is a word for not knowing or understanding......


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 16, 2008)

mountainSpliff said:


> So you have never seen the wind blowing dust around? When you meet someone you shake their hand, when the wind blows it ruffles your hair. I believe you have met the wind. Why would god create negative and positive? So we can be happy half the time and unhappy the rest of the time?! Why can he achieve a perfect balance in nature and yet not with humans? Is he incapable or negligent?
> 
> What has spirituality ever achieved on a personal level besides a selfish comfort?
> 
> ...


A little harsh isn't that bro


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 16, 2008)

karo said:


> I think mabye more people would concure if they have seen what you have seen (were you live).It will make a non beliver out of you in a heart beat.Most of these posts show that most people have not sought out there own knowledge/wisedom on this topic.I belive there is a word for not knowing or understanding......


not true. Please don't categorize people you don't know.


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## natmoon (Feb 16, 2008)

Can anyone actually tell me what Jesus really said?

LOL.

I seriously doubt it


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 16, 2008)

natmoon said:


> Can anyone actually tell me what Jesus really said?
> 
> LOL.
> 
> I seriously doubt it


I know right. I wish I had a time machine or was alive back then. I think some of the bible is correct on his quotes, though.


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## email468 (Feb 16, 2008)

natmoon said:


> Can anyone actually tell me what Jesus really said?
> 
> LOL.
> 
> I seriously doubt it


Among people who actually study this stuff (I'm talking about scholars and historians -- not the Wednesday night bible study group), there is a lot of debate whether Jesus existed or not.

If you are interested in the skeptical perspective, I'd recommend Robert Price (Incredible Shrinking Son of Man), Earl Doherty (The Jesus Puzzle), and many others. There is also a decent introduction to some of these folks available in DVD format. The God Who Wasn't There. It is the story of a guy who went to a Christian school who eventually decided to start studying the science behind the myths. 

Anyway, I love the old myths and enjoy discussing them from a skeptical viewpoint so feel free to drop me a line if you want to discuss.


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## karo (Feb 16, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> not true. Please don't categorize people you don't know.


explain to me how i have done that please,you categorized jesus yet you dont know him.Im sorry i was vague on the word in my other post..let me help you ...the word is i-g-n-o-r-a-n-t.

Have a nice day


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## karo (Feb 16, 2008)

email468 said:


> Among people who actually study this stuff (I'm talking about scholars and historians -- not the Wednesday night bible study group), there is a lot of debate whether Jesus existed or not.
> 
> If you are interested in the skeptical perspective, I'd recommend Robert Price (Incredible Shrinking Son of Man), Earl Doherty (The Jesus Puzzle), and many others. There is also a decent introduction to some of these folks available in DVD format. The God Who Wasn't There. It is the story of a guy who went to a Christian school who eventually decided to start studying the science behind the myths.
> 
> Anyway, I love the old myths and enjoy discussing them from a skeptical viewpoint so feel free to drop me a line if you want to discuss.


Timothy Freke has written "Jesus and the lost goddess",the secert teachings of the original christians,which goes along with his other book"The Jesus mysteries" .
Both are very informative to someone who is shaping their own thoughts to what they believe...or not.
I too enjoy learning about the old myths,the older the better.To learn the myth behind the story is the key to knowledge and understanding.


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## email468 (Feb 16, 2008)

karo said:


> Timothy Freke has written "Jesus and the lost goddess",the secert teachings of the original christians,which goes along with his other book"The Jesus mysteries" .
> Both are very informative to someone who is shaping their own thoughts to what they believe...or not.
> I too enjoy learning about the old myths,the older the better.To learn the myth behind the story is the key to knowledge and understanding.


Cool. Freke is a new name to me so I'll be sure to check him out. I also enjoy Lord Raglan and Alan Dundes (Holy Writ as Oral Lit). And of course Joseph Campbell.

I think most folks would be amazed to see the similarities between all the heroes, prophets and gods.


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 16, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> A little harsh isn't that bro


 
Harsh/Hard. Whatever bro they just words after all. 
You guys make for the best conversation on the web.


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 16, 2008)

karo said:


> explain to me how i have done that please,you categorized jesus yet you dont know him.Im sorry i was vague on the word in my other post..let me help you ...the word is i-g-n-o-r-a-n-t.
> 
> Have a nice day


I'm tired of being nice. You guys can go suck a dick. Have a nice day bitch


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## karo (Feb 16, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> I'm tired of being nice. You guys can go suck a dick. Have a nice day bitch


 
I dont believe that is a WWJD kinda comment ...now is it.

Have a wonderfull day.


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## kayasgarden (Feb 16, 2008)

dude just laugh at these stranger trouble makers


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 16, 2008)

karo said:


> I dont believe that is a WWJD kinda comment ...now is it.
> 
> Have a wonderfull day.


No. But, I don't pretend to be anything like Jesus. I know I'm a sinner...Thank you, though. You too


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## karo (Feb 16, 2008)

kayasgarden said:


> dude just laugh at these stranger trouble makers


been around here longer then you ...dude.


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## karo (Feb 16, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> I know right. I wish I had a time machine or was alive back then. I think some of the bible is correct on his quotes, though.


 
Heres something for you guys to play with awhile

FFRF Bible Quiz

Good Luck!


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## FilthyFletch (Feb 16, 2008)

evolution is the truth and can be witnessed daily. look at all the new strains of ganja that have all evolved from old strains.Its the adaption and breeding of the stronger that make a new evolved hybred which is just how animals, humans and reptiles have done for years. You can follwo it back as far as time has been known to exist.


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## bongspit (Feb 17, 2008)

i can't believe....


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 17, 2008)

FilthyFletch said:


> evolution is the truth and can be witnessed daily. look at all the new strains of ganja that have all evolved from old strains.Its the adaption and breeding of the stronger that make a new evolved hybred which is just how animals, humans and reptiles have done for years. You can follwo it back as far as time has been known to exist.


It's not exactly fact. It's still just a theory. I'm not saying it's wrong, by any means. But, it has its holes too. Like birds are supposed to be direct descendants of dinosaurs, closer in relation than lizards How the fuck does a 2 ton dinosaur turn into a bird in a relatively short amount of time I don't get that part of evolution.


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## LiveHigh (Feb 17, 2008)

It's pointless to try and pull a religious man away from his faith. There is so much information out there denying this and that about the bible. Yet people just interpret it however they want. If a religious person wants to believe in God. They will. It doesn't matter how much killing is in the bible or how much proof we have of evolution and how old the earth is. The information is there. Its up to the person to take it.

I think we are on the verge of religious destruction anyways. Religious folk are hanging onto their religions for dear life. It won't be long before there are nothing but those who believe in a higher power and those who do not. And none who believe in any man-made religion.

Just give it time


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 18, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> It's not exactly fact. It's still just a theory. I'm not saying it's wrong, by any means. But, it has its holes too. Like birds are supposed to be direct descendants of dinosaurs, closer in relation than lizards How the fuck does a 2 ton dinosaur turn into a bird in a relatively short amount of time I don't get that part of evolution.


Where did you read the dino into a bird thing? It sounds like it came out the old testament or something... lol


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 18, 2008)

I just found this, this is what I was talking about earlier. YouTube - Roman Catholicism: From Hell 
Be careful of religion, my brothers and sisters. Most of it will lead you away from the path of God. Be strong in your faith and make sure you do not let yourself be decieved from the righteous path


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## email468 (Feb 18, 2008)

mountainSpliff said:


> Where did you read the dino into a bird thing? It sounds like it came out the old testament or something... lol


we have recently discovered some fossilized evidence of dinosaurs with feathers. Not all dinosaurs were huge (and not all birds were/are small) though size has little to do with descendants. 

If you are interested in evolution, I strongly recommend Daniel Dennett's Darwin's Dangerous Idea for a great layman's overview of evolution (PBS did an 8 hour series based on the book available on VHS and DVD).


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 18, 2008)

email468 said:


> we have recently discovered some fossilized evidence of dinosaurs with feathers. Not all dinosaurs were huge (and not all birds were/are small) though size has little to do with descendants.
> 
> If you are interested in evolution, I strongly recommend Daniel Dennett's Darwin's Dangerous Idea for a great layman's overview of evolution (PBS did an 8 hour series based on the book available on VHS and DVD).


Thanks for the info. You should give Stephen Baxter's Evolution a try. He ventures into what could have been and what might happen. It's based on fact yet has hints of fiction to stir the imagination.

I may be a layman but I have read a book or two.


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## email468 (Feb 18, 2008)

mountainSpliff said:


> Thanks for the info. You should give Stephen Baxter's Evolution a try. He ventures into what could have been and what might happen. It's based on fact yet has hints of fiction to stir the imagination.
> 
> I may be a layman but I have read a book or two.


I'll look into it though i'm more of a Darwin, Dawkins, Dennett kind of reader.


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## TheTokenOne (Feb 18, 2008)

who s to say that the bible and religion and all ths non-sense..no offense..wasnt just made up to give the people an answer they didnt have..like if youre a little kid and ur other little friend asks u were babies come from and u have no idea...what do u tell them..if u tell them i dont know dont u think theyd get upset...especially as adults if we're looking towards public figures like the government for answers and theyre jus telling us.."We dont know" we're gonna get a little chaotic...jus the relgion is to keep us actualy having an answer instead of loking dumbfounded and oblivious...but thats what i think..i dont believe in god but i dont have anything against people who do.i just like to debate


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## email468 (Feb 19, 2008)

TheTokenOne said:


> who s to say that the bible and religion and all ths non-sense..no offense..wasnt just made up to give the people an answer they didnt have..like if youre a little kid and ur other little friend asks u were babies come from and u have no idea...what do u tell them..if u tell them i dont know dont u think theyd get upset...especially as adults if we're looking towards public figures like the government for answers and theyre jus telling us.."We dont know" we're gonna get a little chaotic...jus the relgion is to keep us actualy having an answer instead of loking dumbfounded and oblivious...but thats what i think..i dont believe in god but i dont have anything against people who do.i just like to debate


I also enjoy discussing/debating about this. I agree - there doesn't appear to me to be any rational arguments for a belief in a higher power (let alone a beard-sporting God) that hasn't been persuasively argued already. Unfortunately, most of the responses comes from the various sciences. And in order to understand the explanation, you have to study and go to school for a long time or take the scientists' answers "on faith". And therein lies the problem. 

That is why you have folks saying things like - atheists have faith too - they have faith in science. But this is obviously bullshit if you consider faith "believing something without or in spite of the evidence". Science is the opposite of faith. Science experiments can be replicated by other scientists (or laymen) with proper training.

Belief in God seems to break down along these lines...
1) complete and utter belief in the infallible and everlasting word of god as set forth in his special book (bible, koran, torah, etc..) (fundamentalists/zealots)
2) belief in god from number 1 but "the book" is to be taken allegorically (moderates)
3) belief in a bastardized version of 2 - belief in a benign, benevolent god that watches over us and cares what happens and occasionally intervenes
4) similar to number 3 but replaces the word "god" with the phrase "higher power" or "force"
5) belief in higher power that started the universe but hasn't intervened since
6) belief in some intangible force energy because there "has" to be something bigger than us
7) there is also the unflappable belief that there isn't a god

Numbers 1-4 are pretty easily refuted by what we know about the world today. numbers 5 and 6 are about the only "safe" places for god to exist but science is closing those gaps as well.

and as much as i'm sympathetic with number 7, i think this is a mistaken view as well. Especially since we don't know if there are other universes (dimensions) or if there is something completely unexpected on the horizon of our discoveries.

I would digress and point out those who are trying to marry quantum mechanics with eastern philosophy i have only this to say: just because quantum mechanic scientists and eastern philosophers are equally difficult to understand and both seem to be speaking nonsense or talking in circles, doesn't mean they are saying the same thing. I'm talking to you Deepak Chopra you great gaseous wind bag!

OK rant over now...


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## natmoon (Feb 19, 2008)

Just look in your heart for the truth and forget doctrine and schooling.
Real belief and faith cannot be taught or read in a book and has nothing to do with the writings or teachings written in an old book.
The universe is impossible,work it out for yourselves


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## VintageGrow (Feb 19, 2008)

The way parents teach their kids is really fucked up.... parents taught me all about God, Jesus, the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy. Then they slowly started taking all of my imaginary friends away... first it was the Tooth Fairy; then the Easter Bunny; oh and by the way, son, Santa is fake too; but God... now that is a different story altogether.

It's no wonder some people come away from life saying god must be a fake too.

So in the interest of fairness, I would like to see the following polls, please...

Do you believe in Santa Claus?

Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy?

Do you believe in the Easter Bunny?

Do you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Do you believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn?

I personally like the concept of the Church of Santa Claus, where we give out presents every Sunday! That's a service I'd go to!

VG


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## email468 (Feb 19, 2008)

Have you ever seen the Richard Dawkin's video "The Root of All Evil" and "The Virus of Faith" (part 2)? It is a combination of The Selfish Gene and became The God Delusion (great books btw).

He expresses a sentiment very close to what you are saying. In a nutshell, he says that teaching children that we suffer everlasting torment inflicted by God forever and ever in a world without end, without a shred of evidence, is a form of child abuse.

He goes on to say that we would be appalled to hear parents talk about their children as if they were Democrats or Republicans (Americanized) but think nothing of calling a baby a Christian or Muslim.

what do the Jesuits say? Something like give me the boy until he is seven and I will give you the man.



VintageGrow said:


> The way parents teach their kids is really fucked up.... parents taught me all about God, Jesus, the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy. Then they slowly started taking all of my imaginary friends away... first it was the Tooth Fairy; then the Easter Bunny; oh and by the way, son, Santa is fake too; but God... now that is a different story altogether.
> 
> It's no wonder some people come away from life saying god must be a fake too.
> 
> ...


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## email468 (Feb 19, 2008)

natmoon said:


> Just look in your heart for the truth and forget doctrine and schooling.
> Real belief and faith cannot be taught or read in a book and has nothing to do with the writings or teachings written in an old book.
> The universe is impossible,work it out for yourselves


I disagree that the universe is impossible - we are here. If you meant the universe is impossible to understand, I still disagree. There is a lot we don't know but a brief overview of the latest cosmology/astrophysics may surprise you with what we do know and understand about our universe.

But the point i would most like to make is this: we are free to believe what we want and that is the way it should be. However, when it comes time to make laws, rules, regulations, policy (both foreign and domestic) we should be basing those decisions on reality. Not what we think or believe, but what is real by virtue of the evidence. 

I'll use something we can all understand to illustrate what i'm talking about: marijuana laws - as long as people continue to think that marijuana is devil weed - it will remain illegal. Most of us understand that marijuana was demonized into being illegal without a shred of evidence. Wouldn't it have been better to study marijuana and come to real conclusions before making arbitrary laws based on lies and myths instead of on proof and evidence? That way the people who want to believe that it is the devil's weed are free to believe so but they have zero influence on making marijuana policy. 

So we should be and remain free to choose what we want to believe. But we should not be free to force our beliefs on others without evidence. And when beliefs conflict with reality then reality should win out - not the other way around.


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## natmoon (Feb 19, 2008)

No the universe "is" impossible as soon as you realize this you will come to only one possible logical understanding and when you do everything will become "TaB cleaR"


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## email468 (Feb 19, 2008)

natmoon said:


> No the universe "is" impossible as soon as you realize this you will come to only one possible logical understanding and when you do everything will become "TaB cleaR"


hey natmoon - i know "you" are impossible!


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## natmoon (Feb 19, 2008)

email468 said:


> hey natmoon - i know "you" are impossible!


Of course i am.
So are you.
Everything is impossible still yet made possible.
I have planted this in your mind and now it will grow.
Sorry about that lol


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## email468 (Feb 19, 2008)

natmoon said:


> Of course i am.
> So are you.
> Everything is impossible still yet made possible.
> I have planted this in your mind and now it will grow.
> Sorry about that lol


thanks man - as you could obviously tell, i needed a good laugh and to lighten (and light) the fuck up.


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## natmoon (Feb 19, 2008)

email468 said:


> thanks man - as you could obviously tell, i needed a good laugh and to lighten (and light) the fuck up.


LOL.
Anyway i was wondering if you could tell me your theory on how the universe was created and who or what did it and who made them and so on for an infinite number of times?

I was wondering if you could tell me who made the actual first thing/being and if so how could they ever actually really be the first thing?

Quoting loops of infinity is not acceptable as i would also need to know who made the loops in the first place and who made them and how they did it.

Also of note is the actual pure mathematical precision and exactness needed to actually pull of the creation of a universe.
There is no spoon


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## email468 (Feb 19, 2008)

natmoon said:


> LOL.
> Anyway i was wondering if you could tell me your theory on how the universe was created and who or what did it and who made them and so on for an infinite number of times?
> 
> I was wondering if you could tell me who made the actual first thing/being and if so how could they ever actually really be the first thing?
> ...


I currently have no theory on how the universe was created/began/started to expand, nor do i have a theory regarding the first thing. I am only familiar with theories on seconds after "the singularity". Except for string theory but until we are able to test some of its predictions, i call it string philosophy.


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## natmoon (Feb 19, 2008)

email468 said:


> I currently have no theory on how the universe was created/began/started to expand, nor do i have a theory regarding the first thing. I am only familiar with theories on seconds after "the singularity". Except for string theory but until we are able to test some of its predictions, i call it string philosophy.


I understand string theory.
I made a song called galaxy string theory about 2 years or so ago.
The way the universe is constructed and string theory has nothing to do with the irrefutable and basically indisputable fact that the universe itself and all life is in fact impossible and unexplainable and illogical and could have only come from the mind of God

P.S. Please don't confuse me with a bible basher i choose to believe some of the things that Jesus said and i choose to believe that he had opened his mind somehow,probably with 9 pounds of cannabis oil

I am open minded and like to learn about everything that i can and i do not believe in the moronic ramblings of many organized religions.

As far as i am concerned Jesus healed with his opened mind,a mind that we all have,its a real shame that we only have limited use of its full potential,and cannabis oil,he talked to much and gave the sacred oil to the poor so they killed him.
The truth is in your heart and mind and it is the same for us all and nothing has changed and the fight is still the same fight today as it was 1965 years ago


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 19, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> I just found this, this is what I was talking about earlier. YouTube - Roman Catholicism: From Hell
> Be careful of religion, my brothers and sisters. Most of it will lead you away from the path of God. Be strong in your faith and make sure you do not let yourself be decieved from the righteous path


How the fuck did this become an evolution thread. Doesn't anybody else here enjoy talking about our heavenly father? Or, at least, the influence the devil has on many of our religions? Such as I pointed out in my last post.

W/e this poll already answered my question. Potheads are a bunch of heathens


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## natmoon (Feb 19, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> How the fuck did this become an evolution thread. Doesn't anybody else here enjoy talking about our heavenly father? Or, at least, the influence the devil has on many of our religions? Such as I pointed out in my last post.
> 
> W/e this poll already answered my question. Potheads are a bunch of heathens


Do you think that God had no part in evolution?
I think that we blame the devil and really its our own mistakes we want to try to cover up and take no responsibility for and say the devil/weed/drugs/alcohol etc..and so on made us do it.
Because we don't admit to our mistakes being our own we make the same mistakes again and again


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## WidowMaker79 (Feb 19, 2008)

This is a real can of worms.


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 19, 2008)

natmoon said:


> Do you think that God had no part in evolution?
> I think that we blame the devil and really its our own mistakes we want to try to cover up and take no responsibility for and say the devil/weed/drugs/alcohol etc..and so on made us do it.
> Because we don't admit to our mistakes being our own we make the same mistakes again and again


I'm not really convinced on evolution. So, that's a tough question. But, I believe you are mostly correct about the devil thing. It's a convenient excuse for many people to explain their own evil deeds. But, the devil does exist, don't be fooled. I can see his influence and feel it everywhere I go.


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 19, 2008)

WidowMaker79 said:


> This is a real can of worms.


True. But, it's my thread. And I'm very hard to offend. So, if your easily offended this isn't the thread for you. Just warning ppl right now, even though, it's probably too late.


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## email468 (Feb 19, 2008)

The rest of your comments refutes your first statement.

As I said (and will continue to say) you are free to believe what you like. You have no evidence however so I choose to believe differently.

And regardless of semantic tricks you choose, the universe is here and therefore not impossible. Sort of like the story of the supplicant approaching the Guru and the Guru telling the supplicant - everything is in your mind and nothing really exists. Supplicant whacks Guru in head with 2x4 and says well i guess that 2x4 didn't exist so that couldn't have hurt, right? and rightly goes to seek out new Guru.


I joke but i think you're confusing impossible with unlikely or statistically improbable.



natmoon said:


> I understand string theory.
> I made a song called galaxy string theory about 2 years or so ago.
> The way the universe is constructed and string theory has nothing to do with the irrefutable and basically indisputable fact that the universe itself and all life is in fact impossible and unexplainable and illogical and could have only come from the mind of God
> 
> ...


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## natmoon (Feb 19, 2008)

It has nothing to do with semantics and everything to do with physics.
The universe is not possible


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 19, 2008)

natmoon said:


> It has nothing to do with semantics and everything to do with physics.
> The universe is not possible


I don't want to get into this stuff again. But, I believe Nat is right, email. One of the most basic rules of physics is that energy can be neither created nor destroyed.


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## email468 (Feb 19, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> I don't want to get into this stuff again. But, I believe Nat is right, email. One of the most basic rules of physics is that energy can be neither created nor destroyed.


in a closed system - universe != closed system

someone is misunderstanding physics i think.


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## skunkushybrid (Feb 19, 2008)

Ok, so if a god created the universe, why'd he only put life on one planet? Why make the universe an uninhabitable place?

Why make it so that it is still growing or expanding?

Jesus didn't exist... it's a complete story made up by the romans. Rome didn't burn, they just turned catholic, and ruled the world through religion. A religion that they created to control the masses.

There never was a jesus, well there was probably hundreds of them (popular name back then). What of the old testament... where the saviour of mankind was a bloke called joseph? Funnily enough he was born of a virgin too, and is the original stencil for the jesus people believe existed, today.

What of set, the egyptian god... born of a virgin, on december 25th... these same patterns have been used time and time again throughout history and in a multitude of different religions. Same M.O. every time.


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## email468 (Feb 19, 2008)

skunkushybrid said:


> Ok, so if a god created the universe, why'd he only put life on one planet? Why make the universe an uninhabitable place?
> 
> Why make it so that it is still growing or expanding?
> 
> ...


Yep.
There is no doubt among scholars and historians that there were many messiahs running around. The story of Appolonius (sp?) completely parallels the Jesus story but a few decades earlier. He probably didn't really exist either since there was a lot of allegorical literature being produced at the time. Mark, Matthew, Luke and John weren't writing history - they were writing a gospel - the good news. Of course they didn't write those until decades after Jesus' death.

Jesus definitely scores very high (i think 19/21 or there abouts) on Lord Raglan's Hero scale. I think Jesus scores better than Perseus or Theseus even! And I think Heracles (Hercules) scored a 17 or 18!

But... that aside....
I think the real question is - if God created the universe, then who/what created God. or is it turtles all the way down


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 19, 2008)

I disagree. There are many historical accounts of Jesus. Been watchin too much Zeitgeist? There are many historical accounts of Jesus of Nazareth. Not only in the bible, either. There's no doubt he existed. It's just a question if you think he is the Messiah or not.


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## skunkushybrid (Feb 19, 2008)

Sorry to stick with the jesus thing, but another point is that the only place jesus was mentioned is in the bible. There were a lot of great writers around at that period of time, yet not one of them ever mentions a jesus fella. 

Which considering who this jesus was supposed to be you'd figure somebody would write about him, or mention him even... not a sausage. The only book that mentions him is the fictional bible.



Exactly, once you bring a god into it as the only reason for our existence then the question is instantly begged "then who created god?"

unfortunately people we are all alone, if we ever find alien life it'll be a germ...


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## skunkushybrid (Feb 19, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> I disagree. There are many historical accounts of Jesus. Been watchin too much Zeitgeist? There are many historical accounts of Jesus of Nazareth. Not only in the bible, either. There's no doubt he existed. It's just a question if you think he is the Messiah or not.


I don't believe he did exist... where is this evidence you speak of, I'd like to read it.


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 19, 2008)

skunkushybrid said:


> I don't believe he did exist... where is this evidence you speak of, I'd like to read it.


All around us, my friend. You or somebody else wants to use google to find some. I'm positive you can. I'm not wasting my time to try to prove anything, I'm not trying to convert anybody...I was thinking I would get more Christians in here. Now it's an atheist thread and I the lone Christian has to try to prove God's existence to everyone


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## email468 (Feb 19, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> I disagree. There are many historical accounts of Jesus. Been watchin too much Zeitgeist? There are many historical accounts of Jesus of Nazareth. Not only in the bible, either. There's no doubt he existed. It's just a question if you think he is the Messiah or not.


There is most definitely debate over his existence. As far as I know, there is only one non-apocryphal/canonical source (secular) that may confirm a guy named Jesus existed and this scrap of evidence is from Josephus. But it is unclear whether Josephus is referring to THEE Jesus of Nazareth so that proof isn't exactly concrete evidence. There certainly isn't enough evidence to be convincing but I tend to give the benefit of the doubt. Though to say there is no debate among scholars is simply not true.

My sources are biblical scholars/historians: Alan Dundes, Robert Price, Earl Doherty, Dennis MacDonald and John Loftus (to name a few).

I also enjoy Sam Harris' writing along with Richard Carrier.

I know Zeitgeist is a German word (something to do with "spirit" of the age, i think) and i believe it is a smashing pumpkins album. Is it something else as well?


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## email468 (Feb 19, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> All around us, my friend. You or somebody else wants to use google to find some. I'm positive you can. I'm not wasting my time to try to prove anything, I'm not trying to convert anybody...I was thinking I would get more Christians in here. Now it's an atheist thread and I the lone Christian has to try to prove God's existence to everyone


I'm really not picking on you. But since you are putting your faith in Jesus and consider yourself a Christian, wouldn't looking for evidence be anything but a waste of time? And wouldn't you want to know if you were/are being deceived by those telling you for certain he existed? If you prefer not to know, that is OK but don't expect everyone to take it on faith. Fair enough?


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 19, 2008)

email468 said:


> I'm really not picking on you. But since you are putting your faith in Jesus and consider yourself a Christian, wouldn't looking for evidence be anything but a waste of time? And wouldn't you want to know if you were/are being deceived by those telling you for certain he existed? If you prefer not to know, that is OK but don't expect everyone to take it on faith. Fair enough?


I've done research, my friend. Maybe not as much as I should. But, I learn more everyday. I was just saying I'm not doing research for this thread b/c I'm not doing this thread to try to convert ppl. I do the research for myself, of course. I do research on everything I want to know more about.


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## email468 (Feb 19, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> I've done research, my friend. Maybe not as much as I should. But, I learn more everyday. I was just sayig I'm not doing it for this thread b/c my goal is not to try to convert ppl. I do the research for myself, of course. I do research on everything I want to know more about.


then i guess we'll just chalk it up to different kinds of research.


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 19, 2008)

email468 said:


> then i guess we'll just chalk it up to different kinds of research.


There's credibile people on both sides of the debate.


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## VintageGrow (Feb 19, 2008)

> I'll use something we can all understand to illustrate what i'm talking about: marijuana laws - as long as people continue to think that marijuana is devil weed - it will remain illegal. Most of us understand that marijuana was demonized into being illegal without a shred of evidence. Wouldn't it have been better to study marijuana and come to real conclusions before making arbitrary laws based on lies and myths instead of on proof and evidence? That way the people who want to believe that it is the devil's weed are free to believe so but they have zero influence on making marijuana policy.


Most excellent analogy...


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## VintageGrow (Feb 19, 2008)

> There are many historical accounts of Jesus of Nazareth. Not only in the bible, either.


Please name some examples of where I might find historical writings about Jesus other than the Bible. This is a most excellent question and I would presume believers should be able to easily answer this question without Google's assistance. I might even reconsider my non-belief if there were some supporting documentation that was referred to every so often.

And speaking of the Bible, why doesn't anyone question why many Christians read and quote the "King James Version"? A king's version of God's word, and nobody else scratches their head over this one?


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## LiveHigh (Feb 19, 2008)

People debate whether Jesus really existed or not. But I say who cares. Just because Jesus existed doesn't mean anything claimed about him is true. The fact of the matter is; it is absolutely absurd to believe in ANY of the man-made religions. Just because something is old, doesn't make it true. Imagine if 500 years from now people start believing in Harry Potter. Wouldn't you consider that insane?

People seem ready to believe something just because it's old and written in a different style than is used today. Not to say they believed it for the same reasons back then. They believed it back then because they lived in a very cruel and barbaric world, and anything that could provide peace, while staying outside the boundaries of their knowledge, would do. If you lived in the times of Jesus, where the knowledge of the world was VERY VERY limited. Even I might have found myself believing in someone who claimed to have truth.

Honestly, the way I view religious folk now is this: I imagine them holding onto a pull-up bar; hanging. With a firm grip and piles of science books falling from the sky. Smacking them in the head. But still they hold on. It's quite amusing.

If you disprove one thing about the bible. They ignore it. If you disprove many many things about the bible. They still ignore it. If you make the bible look ridiculous (which it is). They start looking for something else that holds more truth. How long will you search before you realize you're a fool?

Sorry for being harsh. I truly love all humanity and understand why they believe what they believe. I just wish things were different and the world would open their eyes And I also like to remember that there was a time when non-believers were punished by death. Isn't that some shit? That's like presenting a math problem on the board and killing the person who gets it right.


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## magicdude22 (Feb 19, 2008)

VintageGrow said:


> Please name some examples of where I might find historical writings about Jesus other than the Bible. This is a most excellent question and I would presume believers should be able to easily answer this question without Google's assistance. I might even reconsider my non-belief if there were some supporting documentation that was referred to every so often.
> 
> And speaking of the Bible, why doesn't anyone question why many Christians read and quote the "King James Version"? A king's version of God's word, and nobody else scratches their head over this one?


 
there was a man named Jesus who appeared in the census ordered by king Harod, this doesnt make him a savior but thats were my beliefs and faith come in


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 20, 2008)

LiveHigh said:


> People debate whether Jesus really existed or not. But I say who cares. Just because Jesus existed doesn't mean anything claimed about him is true. The fact of the matter is; it is absolutely absurd to believe in ANY of the man-made religions. Just because something is old, doesn't make it true. Imagine if 500 years from now people start believing in Harry Potter. Wouldn't you consider that insane?
> 
> People seem ready to believe something just because it's old and written in a different style than is used today. Not to say they believed it for the same reasons back then. They believed it back then because they lived in a very cruel and barbaric world, and anything that could provide peace, while staying outside the boundaries of their knowledge, would do. If you lived in the times of Jesus, where the knowledge of the world was VERY VERY limited. Even I might have found myself believing in someone who claimed to have truth.
> 
> ...


WTF!! You trying to tell me that Harry Potter isn't real? 

In my experience it's never good to attack someone on a personal level during a debate irrespective of who believes in what. 

I don't think you have searched long enough, cuz if you had, you would have realised that you yourself are a fool. If the bible is so ridiculous, why does it bother you so much?  Being an atheist you should have a sense of freedom from the lie. Or are you religiously atheist?


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## skunkushybrid (Feb 20, 2008)

LiveHigh said:


> And I also like to remember that there was a time when non-believers were punished by death. Isn't that some shit? That's like presenting a math problem on the board and killing the person who gets it right.


Yes, people were literally forced to believe... and when they didn't they were killed. 

People are still forced to believe today, it's on the tv and it's in our schools. I for one will not tolerate my children being taught about a god as though it is real. My children will be raised to know the truth, and their eyes shall not be clouded by the bullshit in the world.


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## email468 (Feb 20, 2008)

skunkushybrid said:


> Yes, people were literally forced to believe... and when they didn't they were killed.
> 
> People are still forced to believe today, it's on the tv and it's in our schools. I for one will not tolerate my children being taught about a god as though it is real. My children will be raised to know the truth, and their eyes shall not be clouded by the bullshit in the world.


Which, in my opinion, is why it is supremely important for non-believers to not make the same mistake attempting to force any kind of belief system - including non-belief on anyone else.

in my eyes, that would make us worse than believers since believers at least have the excuse that they are told by god to evangelize. We have no such luxury.


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## natmoon (Feb 20, 2008)

Hey guys whilst it is obvious that God does not fly on a cloud with a trumpet burning people for disagreeing with him and that in ancient times people were forced to believe in a said religion under penalty of death and maiming this does not mean that we as higher beings cannot simply accept the fact that there may well be a spirit world.

All of the above said shitty things were supposedly done or said by god were actually done and devised by evil men as a system of control.

Jesus never said any of it and nor did god only men did it and said it.
I also agree with skunky that there are many children of god,always have been and always will be
Jesus is just the main character that is mentioned in the bible.

I think that there are many reasons to believe in a higher order but none of them are about control,pain or suffering those are once again man made elements and god said none of them.

I do not profess to know what god said and i also cannot state 100% that he does exist,i can however say that i feel that god probably has a very good sense of humour and that maybe he simply waits for us to be evolved enough in a spiritual sense before he can talk to us.

I do not advocate any religion that harms or forces any of its followers into anything and i simply chose to believe in Jesus and the fact there possibly is a god and that he can do nothing to really help us and that we must help ourselves


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## nomad (Feb 20, 2008)

can someone tell me why we get people either on streets preaching about god or jesus or calling door to door trying to convert people to religion but you do not get people doing this to try and get you not to believe?why is this?
is it that the believers want as many disciples as it were so they can take over the world and brainwash people?
or is it only a minority of believers that do this sort of harrassment?

I STILL AINT GONNA BELIEVE NO MATTER WHAT.


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## PoseidonsNet (Feb 20, 2008)

> I think that there are many reasons to believe in a higher order but none of them are about control,pain or suffering those are once again man made elements and god said none of them.


Can we have pleasure without pain? Surely that is as illogical as up without down?

The preachers that annoy people have recently repented and are new to living with God. They are beginners ... humour them. I always blow them away with this :
"God created all, therefore God created the Devil"

Can we have good without evil? Surely that is as illogical as forward without backward?


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## fatass03 (Feb 20, 2008)

I'm not about to read through this whole post to see if this has been posted. But, I love this video! 

YouTube - Keep your jesus off my penis


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 20, 2008)

Can a mod just delete this thread or something. People are turning into assholes and I don't want arguments breaking out. Thanks.


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## email468 (Feb 20, 2008)

nomad said:


> can someone tell me why we get people either on streets preaching about god or jesus or calling door to door trying to convert people to religion but you do not get people doing this to try and get you not to believe?why is this?
> is it that the believers want as many disciples as it were so they can take over the world and brainwash people?
> or is it only a minority of believers that do this sort of harrassment?
> 
> I STILL AINT GONNA BELIEVE NO MATTER WHAT.


I think they do it for a few reasons - some good - some less so - many "street" preachers are also homeless and have mental problems. The ones going to door-to-door are kind of "forced" to do that by their religion - it is part of the requirements to join the church. Many do it because their interpretation of "witnessing the gospel" includes preaching the word to others.

But a lot of people who believe really have gone through a life-changing event and usually for the better. Sometimes they were criminals of one sort or another, terribly unhappy or just empty and they found Jesus (or some other religious figure) and their life really turned around. They made a lot of new friends that care about them and it makes the tough times a lot easier to lean on Jesus so they want to share that joy, happiness and fulfillment with you. They see and know the positive changes that they experienced and i think out of kindness want everyone to know this kind of completeness.

Keep in mind this is coming from an atheist who would, when in a bad mood, eradicate religion if he could. 

And while I appreciate your commitment to disbelief, again as an atheist, I will say straight out there are quite a few things that would make me believe. A real honest-to-god miracle for example - or even something more subtle. I don't know if you've read the book Contact (the movie doesn't do it justice) but the part where they are solving PI out to some incredible amount of digits, when placed in geometric shape the digits spelled out a code that couldn't have come from chance (or something like that - now I'm not doing it justice) the point being - it was god's signature - or according to Sagan - the signature of the prime cause or something like that - keep in mind Sagan was an atheist also. That would be another bit of evidence that would sway my belief towards the "higher power" side of things.

my two cents anyway...


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## ace1059 (Feb 20, 2008)

*i beleve in God!!* and im not gona start sum argument or state my theory


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## KrazyAnneBanks (Feb 20, 2008)

god is just a kid with an antfarm


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 21, 2008)

Woohoo!! Busy curing some sample bud...


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## skunkushybrid (Feb 21, 2008)

email468 said:


> Which, in my opinion, is why it is supremely important for non-believers to not make the same mistake attempting to force any kind of belief system - including non-belief on anyone else.
> 
> in my eyes, that would make us worse than believers since believers at least have the excuse that they are told by god to evangelize. We have no such luxury.


No, I can't agree. I'm not forcing anything on anybody, I'm enforcing a realisation.

In my eyes there is so much wrong with belief in magical beings. Half the people that say they believe can offer no reasons for their beliefs... yet they would laugh at you if you told them santa is a real magical guy thay drops down chimneys.

This bullshit starts at school, where our kids are forced to sing religous songs in assemblies, and taught about this god as though it is a fact. Not only that, but in my country we have mosques everywhere, synagogues and every other religion catered for... so much choice, when for any sane human being there should be no choice at all.

There is only one truth, and we all know what that is... for some of us we may need the comfort of belief in a god or magical spirit, but deep down this is all it will ever be, a belief. Denying the truth is a complete waste of energy, and becomes a fake reality.

Come on guys, we're in the 21st Century... it's about time we all just faced up to who and what we really are.


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 21, 2008)

skunkushybrid said:


> No, I can't agree. I'm not forcing anything on anybody, I'm enforcing a realisation.
> 
> In my eyes there is so much wrong with belief in magical beings. Half the people that say they believe can offer no reasons for their beliefs... yet they would laugh at you if you told them santa is a real magical guy thay drops down chimneys.
> 
> ...


Fuck you. It's not a realazation. It's your opion and you know what they say about opinions. You know me Skunk, I mean no offense by the previous comment. This is just how I feel.


email468 said:


> Which, in my opinion, is why it is supremely important for non-believers to not make the same mistake attempting to force any kind of belief system - including non-belief on anyone else.
> 
> in my eyes, that would make us worse than believers since believers at least have the excuse that they are told by god to evangelize. We have no such luxury.


Thank you for keeping it civil in your arguments email. Even though you disagree.


iblazethatkush said:


> Can a mod just delete this thread or something. People are turning into assholes and I don't want arguments breaking out. Thanks.


End of thread please. I love you all and may you all find Jesus one day the same way I did


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 21, 2008)

End of thread please. I love you all and may you all find Jesus one day the same way I did[/quote]

Or you can just start an atheist thread if you wish. This thread isn't turning out the way I intended. Stoners aren't a very religious bunch I guess


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## voodoo child (Feb 21, 2008)

I don't believe in God, I'm not of the weak minded majority!


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 21, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> End of thread please. I love you all and may you all find Jesus one day the same way I did


Or you can just start an atheist thread if you wish. This thread isn't turning out the way I intended. Stoners aren't a very religious bunch I guess[/quote]


Atheist's generally jump at an opportunity to poke fun at religious people, and seeing how this is an anonymous way to do it, it aint going to stop.

Stay cool pal.


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## nomad (Feb 21, 2008)

email468 said:


> I think they do it for a few reasons - some good - some less so - many "street" preachers are also homeless and have mental problems. The ones going to door-to-door are kind of "forced" to do that by their religion - it is part of the requirements to join the church. Many do it because their interpretation of "witnessing the gospel" includes preaching the word to others.
> 
> But a lot of people who believe really have gone through a life-changing event and usually for the better. Sometimes they were criminals of one sort or another, terribly unhappy or just empty and they found Jesus (or some other religious figure) and their life really turned around. They made a lot of new friends that care about them and it makes the tough times a lot easier to lean on Jesus so they want to share that joy, happiness and fulfillment with you. They see and know the positive changes that they experienced and i think out of kindness want everyone to know this kind of completeness.
> 
> ...


 
HEY I UNDERSTAND WERE YOU COMIN FROM BUT IF YOU BELIEVE YOU ARE AN ATHIEST THEN YOU MUST BELIEVE THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE.......LIKE A GOD

I AM JUST A PERSON I DO NOT PUT A NAME TO MYSELF I DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD OR THE DEVIL
I JUS GO ABOUT MY THING HOPEFULLY NOT HASSELING ANYONE ABOUT ANYTHING UNLESS THEY HASSEL ME
I DO BELIEVE EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO THERE OWN BELIEFS AN OPINIONS


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## email468 (Feb 21, 2008)

skunkushybrid said:


> No, I can't agree. I'm not forcing anything on anybody, I'm enforcing a realisation.
> 
> In my eyes there is so much wrong with belief in magical beings. Half the people that say they believe can offer no reasons for their beliefs... yet they would laugh at you if you told them santa is a real magical guy thay drops down chimneys.
> 
> ...



I think we are on the same page. There is a "but" or "however" that I left off that post. But to clarify my position, I will state the "but" now...

While I believe no one has the right to impose beliefs on others, I also think we need to make public policy (laws, regulations, rules, etc...) based on evidence and not what we "think" or "believe" but what we can prove.

that way, we are free to believe what we want but are insulated from having to deal with anyones loony ideas becoming law.


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## email468 (Feb 21, 2008)

nomad said:


> HEY I UNDERSTAND WERE YOU COMIN FROM BUT IF YOU BELIEVE YOU ARE AN ATHIEST THEN YOU MUST BELIEVE THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE.......LIKE A GOD
> 
> I AM JUST A PERSON I DO NOT PUT A NAME TO MYSELF I DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD OR THE DEVIL
> I JUS GO ABOUT MY THING HOPEFULLY NOT HASSELING ANYONE ABOUT ANYTHING UNLESS THEY HASSEL ME
> I DO BELIEVE EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO THERE OWN BELIEFS AN OPINIONS


Everyone does have the right to their opinions and beliefs. However, if you aren't able to offer any credible evidence for your opinions and/or beliefs then everyone else has the right to not take you seriously.

and the idea that you have to believe in one thing in order not to believe in it makes no sense to me at all.

And if the folks who did believe did not blow themselves up killing a bunch of other people or attempt to shove their twisted morality down my throat by making religious-orientated legislation or attempt to replace the teaching of real science in the classroom with fairy tales, i would have no beef. But that isn't the case and us non-believers aren't handling unprovable beliefs that fuck with everybody with kid-gloves anymore.

so the gloves are off god - let's see what ya got


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## email468 (Feb 21, 2008)

mountainSpliff said:


> Or you can just start an atheist thread if you wish. This thread isn't turning out the way I intended. Stoners aren't a very religious bunch I guess


 
Atheist's generally jump at an opportunity to poke fun at religious people, and seeing how this is an anonymous way to do it, it aint going to stop.

Stay cool pal. [/QUOTE]

i came to be an atheist from a very religious background. And while it is tempting to poke fun, attacking the person is a sure way to lose an argument.

And while I prefer to maintain my anonymity on a weed-growing site, I am not meek regarding these opinions in face-to-face scenarios as well. In fact, I prefer face-to-face - my fingers hurt less.


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## ace1059 (Feb 21, 2008)

john T. Scopes arrested for teaching evolution in May 5, 1925, at the end of the trial he said that it would be ridiculous to teach one theory to students, the irony is now in america creationism is not taught or spoken about, one theory, evolution. im not saying evolution dosnt happen because that is incorrect evolution does happen but in my opinion so did creation.


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## Cheesy Bo' Greesy (Feb 21, 2008)

I believe in genetics, freewill, psychology, science & the power of sheer focus, will and determination......As far as God in a dogmatic sense is concerned?: I read a story today about a man who cut his wife into little pieces and left her torso in the garage. He did all of this while his two children (4 years and 6 years old) were home. This took him some days and their kids were home everyday while he left her to rot in the garage. The remaining family of the murdered wife said "the children will be able to read about how their mother died when they become adults but no sooner"(as if that will make it any less shocking for them). I'm pretty sure by that point the other children in their schools will have filled them in on all the details concerning their mothers gruesome death at the hands of their father.... It is very difficult for me to believe in an 'all loving' 'all powerful' creator and will continue to be as long as innocent children like these two keep being put through garbage like this...I do believe in a universal energy that we can manipulate if we so choose for the simple fact that it is exactly what we are all made up of. The more common religious philosophies dont really float my boat though.


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## VanIsle420 (Feb 21, 2008)

If you have some time watch this it is very eye opening and credible
zeigheistmovie.com


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## boooky (Feb 21, 2008)

Well I beleive there is somthing out there and I would call him GOD if his name was Steve. So yes I beleive


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 22, 2008)

I feel like McDonalds but I really should'nt. ew.


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## fatass03 (Feb 22, 2008)

LiveLeak.com - Penn & Teller : Bullshit! The Bible (Full Episode)


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 22, 2008)

email468 said:


> While I believe no one has the right to impose beliefs on others, I also think we need to make public policy (laws, regulations, rules, etc...) based on evidence and not what we "think" or "believe" but what we can prove.
> 
> that way, we are free to believe what we want but are insulated from having to deal with anyones loony ideas becoming law.


 
Ultimately, that is the way forward. Society does seem to be heading that way naturally. If you look back in history we've come a long way since the days of crusades etc. However we still have the odd 'loon' stirring the pot.

There ought to be limits to freedom.
[SIZE=-1]-- *George W Bush*[/SIZE]
This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.
[SIZE=-1]-- *George W Bush*[/SIZE]
To those of you who received honors, awards and distinctions, I say, well done. And to the C students, I say to you: you, too, can be president of the United States.
[SIZE=-1]-- *George W Bush*[/SIZE]

*LOL*

*Well actually I should'nt laugh. My country's next president has been charged with rape, fraud, gun running etc. *


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## mountainSpliff (Feb 22, 2008)

God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.
[SIZE=-1]-- *George W Bush*[/SIZE]

*LOL*

*Sorry could'nt resist.*


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## ace1059 (Feb 22, 2008)

Cheesy Bo' Greesy said:


> .... It is very difficult for me to believe in an 'all loving' 'all powerful' creator and will continue to be as long as innocent children like these two keep being put through garbage like this.. religious


thats what many people say and i also think of this alot, especially the genocide that is happening in darfur, how millions of innocent children are being slaughtered. The one thing i know why God lets this continue is because theres one thing he gave us, free will, we can think say or do anything we want, But dont get me wrong God does intervene, hevent you ever heard of miracles?....theres more to it but i dont want to make this into a all out discussion


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## LiveHigh (Feb 22, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> thats what many people say and i also think of this alot, especially the genocide that is happening in darfur, how millions of innocent children are being slaughtered. The one thing i know why God lets this continue is because theres one thing he gave us, free will, we can think say or do anything we want, But dont get me wrong God does intervene, hevent you ever heard of miracles?....theres more to it but i dont want to make this into a all out discussion


You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Free will is illusory. Everything is a reaction. Thus there is no free will. Miracles? You can't seriously believe in miracles, can you? Miracles are nothing more than something that has a very low chance of happening, happen. Pure chance.


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## nomad (Feb 22, 2008)

ho hum little ol me has had my say so me not gonna play no more as no one as really answered any questions that have been asked by anyone
i will check this thread in the year erm....2020 and yous all will still be sayin the same thing.

BUT I STILL NOT GONNA BELIEVE IN SOMTHING THAT AINT THERE


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## email468 (Feb 22, 2008)

nomad said:


> BUT I STILL NOT GONNA BELIEVE IN SOMTHING THAT AINT THERE


There are a few reasons to believe but not all of them are equal. I break it down to four:

1) Evidence - observed, rational, logical, repeatable AKA scientific method

2) Tradition - passed on from generation to generation - the belief that because people have believed something a long time somehow makes it more true (while a made up story is false whether you make it up today or made it up 2000 years ago.

3) Authority - person in charge tells you what to believe. Islam has mullahs and ayatollahs, Catholics have the Pope, Communists have Marx or Mao, etc..

4) Revelation - person says God told them and is now sharing - the "prophets" - folks like David Koresh and Jim Jones comes to mind

one of these things is not like the others ....


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## PoseidonsNet (Feb 22, 2008)

*Question : Does perfect knowledge exist?*
*Answer : if it does, then that is GOD.*

*Logic : If perfect knowledge does not exist, then we have discovered at least one perfect principle : that there are no perfect principles - which is a contradiction*

*Therefore :*
*Perfect knowledge exists *
*Therefore :*
*God exists.*


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## email468 (Feb 22, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> *Question : Does perfect knowledge exist?*
> *Answer : if it does, then that is GOD.*
> 
> *Logic : If perfect knowledge does not exist, then we have discovered at least one perfect principle : that there are no perfect principles - which is a contradiction*
> ...


I told myself I would not post anymore on this thread unless addressing one of my previous posts but this post just grrrrrr! 

I'm sorry your attempt at logic is so filled with wild suppositions and ludicrous inaccuracies that it is bringing out a very cruel streak that I will subdue in the interests of your feelings and this forums rules.

But will leave you with this syllogism:

God is love,
Love is blind,
Ray Charles is blind
- therefore, Ray Charles is God.

See the fallacy? It's easy if you try.


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## undertheice (Feb 22, 2008)

email468 said:


> God is love,
> Love is blind,
> Ray Charles is blind
> - therefore, Ray Charles is God.


i knew it, i just knew it. thank you for clearing that up for me. i will now abandon my atheist ways and begin worshiping ray charles.


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 22, 2008)

STFU and start your own thread. You're not converting anybody. Thank you, I love you guys


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Feb 22, 2008)

ROFL!!! I try not to read this thread, i just cant unsub. but i dont post anymore it just upsets me... accept this one... ROFL!!!!!


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## kayasgarden (Feb 22, 2008)

this seems like the appropriate place to post cause its asking a straight foward question about if you beleive or not. I think thats the diffrence between atheist and god lovers?????? Atheists dont try to convert others..... never had one knock on my door or anything


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 22, 2008)

kayasgarden said:


> this seems like the appropriate place to post cause its asking a straight foward question about if you beleive or not. I think thats the diffrence between atheist and god lovers?????? Atheists dont try to convert others..... never had one knock on my door or anything


Naww these ones are different. They try to convert you and then when they can't they insult your beliefs. Screw them and especially you fatass (not u kaya, the dude named that)


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## Zekedogg (Feb 22, 2008)

Jesus is my friend


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## iblazethatkush (Feb 22, 2008)

Zekedogg said:


> Jesus is my friend


Cool. I hope your serious.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Feb 22, 2008)

Well, the meaning of the thread wasnt to convert, it was to say if you believed or not.. Many Christian said Yes because...they spoke deeply about their belifs, only to be called stupid and have their intellegence questioned. And why cause you have nothing to bring you joy? It one thing to say, "no i dont believe, and this is why..." but, quite another to say, "your gullable, your an idiot", and make these senseless, humorless jokes just to spite, about someone deep convictions, and oh yea i heard alot of you "atheist" trying to convert... so dont act like "atheist come out so clean in all this Kay.......


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## Zekedogg (Feb 22, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> Cool. I hope your serious.


 
Why wouldn't I be


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Feb 22, 2008)

I thought so because of the avatar... its kinda mean.....


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## Zekedogg (Feb 22, 2008)

Not really, My god accepts me for whom I am


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## kayasgarden (Feb 22, 2008)

right im not athiest actualy but i also dont beleive in one god. i say to each their own and i was just responding to the comment about athiest starting their own thread if you look at the #'s between no god, other than christian god and undecided far out number those who only beleive in one god? That might tell ya something I am very glad to read that i thought the world was hopeless


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## kayasgarden (Feb 22, 2008)

dame you kush blazer you blew my cover how did ya know i was a fat ass


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Feb 22, 2008)

Speak that truth Brotha... You right my bad!!!


Zekedogg said:


> Not really, My god accepts me for whom I am


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Feb 22, 2008)

Well, the majority rules.. it must be right.. I going to study other religions right now!!! Christian no more!!

Come on!!



kayasgarden said:


> right im not athiest actualy but i also dont beleive in one god. i say to each their own and i was just responding to the comment about athiest starting their own thread if you look at the #'s between no god, other than christian god and undecided far out number those who only beleive in one god? That might tell ya something I am very glad to read that i thought the world was hopeless


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## kayasgarden (Feb 22, 2008)

im not knockin those who beleive in one god thats good for YOU, whats the harm in reading about other religions and all spirituality. Sorry i guess i see why people avoid this thread, im not implying you have to see it my way, im just saying i dont beleive i am going to hell cause i dont beleive in one god.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Feb 22, 2008)

Cool... you believe what you believe and i believe what i believe.... Lets smoke... Pipe, Doobie, blunt or my favorite.... BONG!!!!


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## kayasgarden (Feb 22, 2008)

sounds perfect!!!! I love the bong too!!!!! Love your avatar by the way, very cute


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## fatass03 (Feb 22, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> Naww these ones are different. They try to convert you and then when they can't they insult your beliefs. Screw them and especially you fatass (not u kaya, the dude named that)



LOL...... No need to get upset over there now


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## undertheice (Feb 23, 2008)

fatass03 said:


> LOL...... No need to get upset over there now


......when you take a man's most cherished fears and beliefs, talk about them in a rational light, and show them how foolish they actually sound to someone who has not been indoctrinated in that form of fantasy. it may be fun from time to time, but i've gotten more than one scar from such discussions.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Feb 24, 2008)

Another person that doesnt have the campacity to grasp something that is FAR above his relm of so called knowledge and understanding, so you criticize and make knocks at intellegence... Well if it helps you sleep at night.... I am sooooooo done with this tread... 



undertheice said:


> ......when you take a man's most cherished fears and beliefs, talk about them in a rational light, and show them how foolish they actually sound to someone who has not been indoctrinated in that form of fantasy. it may be fun from time to time, but i've gotten more than one scar from such discussions.


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## kayasgarden (Feb 24, 2008)

fear of hell


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## Titania (Feb 25, 2008)

YouTube - Atheist

I am an atheist...


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## mastakoosh (Feb 25, 2008)

i love god.


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## anhedonia (Feb 27, 2008)

the buddha proclaimed the four noble truths the highst of all truths and the existence or non existence of a divine being impertanent. thus buddhism is a non-theistic religion, (not atheistic) and to attain liberation has nothing to do with a "god".


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## bigbudeddie (Feb 27, 2008)

I beleive god is a way of dealing with the questions we all ask our selfes.

Why are we here?
How did this planet earth begin?
What happens when we die?

Most people need a reason or atleast some kind of mind set to these questions. Beleiving in a "god" or "ultimate being" is a way of dealing with all this, you could say its an adults imaginary friend.

Dont take me wrong, i was once christian. These are just my opinions. Im not jamming it down anyones throat here. 

Peace


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## hom36rown (Feb 28, 2008)

god is dead -Nietzche


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## VintageGrow (Feb 28, 2008)

It is the moral responsibility of atheists to expose the falsehoods of religion.


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## hom36rown (Feb 29, 2008)

we should start going door to door spreading the word huh?


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## bwinn27 (Feb 29, 2008)

i beleave in the ganja gods.


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## undertheice (Mar 1, 2008)

hom36rown said:


> we should start going door to door spreading the word huh?


do we have to wear the skinny tie and ill fitting suit?


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## HIGHLANDERZ (Mar 1, 2008)

Gotta tell you, I love this friggin' site. Where else could you get grow tips and a discussion about deity? And to top it all off, it's a CIVILIZED discussion where people RESPECTFULLY agree or disagree.

Totally f'in cool. Late


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## undertheice (Mar 1, 2008)

HIGHLANDERZ said:


> And to top it all off, it's a CIVILIZED discussion where people RESPECTFULLY agree or disagree.


then we obviously *must* be doing something wrong.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 2, 2008)

I believe in god, ,,, But is there any point arguing or trying to prove right or wrong some 1 elses thoughts ?


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## email468 (Mar 2, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> I believe in god, ,,, But is there any point arguing or trying to prove right or wrong some 1 elses thoughts ?


It depends, good spirited debate may lead to greater understanding of the other persons position.

But unfortunately, the conversation usually deteriorates into shouting matches and insults.

I tend to only get seriously concerned with what someone believes without evidence, when that person is capable of making or influencing laws, rules, and other legislation. I'd prefer we keep those fact-based, rather than faith-based.


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## overfiend (Mar 2, 2008)

email468 said:


> I tend to only get seriously concerned with what someone believes without evidence, when that person is capable of making or influencing laws, rules, and other legislation. I'd prefer we keep those fact-based, rather than faith-based.


good answer!
i've got a friend who believes without evidence and our conversations on this usualy go bad because his mind is narrowed to what he's been taught all his life and not what his mind has reasoned with.

is there a GOD? 
what do you want god to be? your creator. your security blanket.
i think some people need this sort of structure in there life.these are the people that go to church EVERY sunday.
but,do they have true meaning in them or do they just go through the motions to be more accepted by their peers.

I do believe in GOD but not in the church going way. to me it is much more spiritual a feeling not a speech


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 2, 2008)

Your right email religion is a touchy subject and usually does blow out of range once a few diffrent view are set across 

But saying that in the spirtual section ,big bang, god the devil all that stuff its going 2 b hard to have facts so theres no debate 4 ya man haha 

But another thing us humans only see black and white and what we know we stand with like back when every 1 thought the world was flat . We tend to make a laugh an joke of thing 2 unexplanable its just arragence and ignorance from us thinking we know every think when really its nothing we no except things on r land a bit of scence but nothing past pluto say . or the ocean floor really 

To me god isent a security blanet nor just becouse my family taught it 2 me some things happen thats just to hard 2 explane and im not going 2 for some collage kid looking it explaned haha Things just have made my feelings strong that there is ,But if its not for u who cares haha 

when u live with god u live a good life now i dont mean them ass,s that run 2 mass every sunday they r no diffrent than jail birds going 2 mass in jail and if u live with the devil u live bad an bad stuff will be returned is just 1 view but i believe theres a much bigger pic ...............................

When we all find out it it will b to late and we will be stiff so just get on with it an live with peace with your self if ya belive in god or not and no burdens like some of the 1s that get there pants in a twist becouse they believe theres no god if they really were at peace they wouldent care just seems those type are just angry with there parents for some reason and wear black clothes and stuff 

Any ways I,ll light this joint up and worship my god ( im jamician ) only joking i dont say prays nor jamican lol

Peace


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## email468 (Mar 2, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> Your right email religion is a touchy subject and usually does blow out of range once a few diffrent view are set across
> 
> But saying that in the spirtual section ,big bang, god the devil all that stuff its going 2 b hard to have facts so theres no debate 4 ya man haha
> 
> ...


you sure are correct in saying we don't know everything. and a lot of what we think we know may prove to be incorrect or at least not the whole picture. I was watching "The Blue Planet" documentary and they said more people have walked on the surface of the moon than have been to ocean's floor! amazing stuff!

But we do know a surprising amount about our world and the world around us. There's a lot more we don't know that otherwise but what we have figured out is truly fascinating and magical. I love science since it makes magic real for me.

Unfortunately, not everyone (both theists and non-theists alike) subscribes to the "live and let live" view and more is the shame on them.


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## KAOSOWNER (Mar 2, 2008)

God is ultimate and supreme he absolutely exists!!!! The facts that exist are you me and some great Marijuana. ( NO GOD = NO WEED ) Ha beat that lol


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## Calismoke (Mar 2, 2008)

God is the way, the truth and the light. Nobody goes to him without going through his son. Jesus Christ, who died on the cross for your sins and mine...whether you choose to believe it or not, thats up to you. That doesnt change the fact that he did.


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## Titania (Mar 2, 2008)

Calismoke said:


> God is the way, the truth and the light. Nobody goes to him without going through his son. Jesus Christ, who died on the cross for your sins and mine...whether you choose to believe it or not, thats up to you. That doesnt change the fact that he did.


 
Father I committed an original sin... I poked a badger with a spoon.

" It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring "

Carl Sagan.


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## KindBud420 (Mar 2, 2008)

Honestly i believe that their MIGHT be a god. But I think the People Who worship jesus and go to church every sunday are crazy. You shouldnt Worship somebody, especially when theirs no proof he really exist. IM sure there is a Satan just as their is a God.

PS. All the people who were Ex- Crack Addicts / Meth Addicts Dont count Just because they say they FOund god (head from Korn)..Thats proof right there that people are crazy for worshiping


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## m3atwad (Mar 2, 2008)

the thought of a god and most religions is silly.

religion is humans response to having to live and then die.


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## luisRA (Mar 2, 2008)

well here's a little education about religion....


part1 YouTube - Zeitgeist - The Movie - 2 of 13 (Part 1 of 3 on Religion)

part 2 YouTube - Zeitgeist - The Movie - 3 of 13 (Part 2 of 3 on Religion)

part 3 YouTube - Zeitgeist - The Movie - 4 of 13 (Part 3 of 3 on Religion)


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## ace1059 (Mar 2, 2008)

KindBud420 said:


> Honestly i believe that their MIGHT be a god. But I think the People Who worship jesus and go to church every sunday are crazy. You shouldnt Worship somebody, especially when theirs no proof he really exist. IM sure there is a Satan just as their is a God.
> 
> PS. All the people who were Ex- Crack Addicts / Meth Addicts Dont count Just because they say they FOund god (head from Korn)..Thats proof right there that people are crazy for worshiping


bitch i aint crazy! i belive in God...SHiit he made marijuana!! all praises to Jesus!!!


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## KindBud420 (Mar 2, 2008)

Calismoke said:


> *God is the way, the truth and the light*. Nobody goes to him without going through his son. Jesus Christ, who died on the cross for your sins and mine...whether you choose to believe it or not, thats up to you. That doesnt change the fact that he did.


People who say that are Brainwashed! forreal..nothing against what you believe but the way you said that


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## KindBud420 (Mar 2, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> bitch i aint crazy! i belive in God...SHiit he made marijuana!! all praises to Jesus!!!


god didnt make nothing
Explain to me how he makes a Seed.. how he makes Trees. how does he make Water and dirt? 
You cant
It was all here before he was.
Its crazy someone believe in a highpower, just because he was the first person on earth makes him have powers? i dont think so buddy


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## ace1059 (Mar 2, 2008)

KindBud420 said:


> god didnt make nothing
> Explain to me how he makes a Seed.. how he makes Trees. how does he make Water and dirt?
> You cant
> It was all here before he was.
> Its crazy someone believe in a highpower, just because he was the first person on earth makes him have powers? i dont think so buddy


do you actually think you could possibly understand or EXPLAIN GOD! if i could he would not be great at all. its hard for me to beleave without knowing but i have faith, logic tells me there is a God


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## KindBud420 (Mar 2, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> do you actually think you could possibly understand or EXPLAIN GOD! if i could he would not be great at all. its hard for me to beleave without knowing but i have faith, logic tells me there is a God


 
im not saying your wrong or right, thats just how i feel. I feel like how does one man have all these powers to walk on water and all that B.S. And we cant? All men are created equal. 

I just dont really believe in Religions like that. We are all going to die one day and god cant save us if there is one. no need to worship him like he is going to save you. I bet millions of ppl prayed in the towers on 9/11 and they didnt get saved.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Mar 2, 2008)

Praise God, Some God and Jesus believing weed smoker!!!! Kaosowner, Calismoke preach on!!!.... I thank God for making weed too Ace!!! And the MANY MANY other things he has done for us all!! Glory in the highest HE reigns!!


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## ace1059 (Mar 2, 2008)

i understand what you mean, theres alot of unexplained things and we dont know why or cant understand it. for the people in 911, read this, God knew it was going to happen, he knows all!


> *John 14:1-3
> *"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.


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## KindBud420 (Mar 2, 2008)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> Praise God, Some God and Jesus believing weed smoker!!!! Kaosowner, Calismoke preach on!!!.... I thank God for making weed too Ace!!! And the *MANY MANY other things he has done for us all!!* Glory in the highest HE reigns!!


 
Name some things he has done besides being ''hung on a cross'' for us all.. 
agian...not saying your wrong im just curios to know.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Mar 2, 2008)

First of all your putting God on the same level as man, and God wasnt the first man on earth, Adam was.... He created it, so the being that created all man kind earth, space, and the heavens and is responsible for all my good fortune, and blessing, has the right to do whatever, and the power over all and to do all.



KindBud420 said:


> im not saying your wrong or right, thats just how i feel. I feel like how does one man have all these powers to walk on water and all that B.S. And we cant? All men are created equal.
> 
> I just dont really believe in Religions like that. We are all going to die one day and god cant save us if there is one. no need to worship him like he is going to save you. I bet millions of ppl prayed in the towers on 9/11 and they didnt get saved.


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## ace1059 (Mar 2, 2008)

KindBud420 said:


> Name some things he has done besides being ''hung on a cross'' for us all..
> agian...not saying your wrong im just curios to know.


many things! atleast for me, protected my mother from my father, gave my brother a good life, im living in a very good neighborhood and i have a nice house. God blesses all of us all you got to do is ask and listen! (dont mean to preach to you)


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Mar 2, 2008)

To me that is enough, read the bible man, Jesus did much more than that, and if it wasnt for Him, "hanging on the cross" we would be struck down for our sin as they were commited. Jesus healed, feed, and changed many people heart from evil. He is the messenger for our prayer to God and He pleases our cases to God and was God's son who was BLAMELESS!!! and He died for us, when we are nothing but dust in the wind...... So that we could have everlasting life, I wont preach to anyone that doesnt ask, but you did and it seems to me you are seeking knowledge and need to start with the bible. Put all your fear and prejustice to the side and just give it a genuine try... you will be surprised how God speaks to you when you listen....




KindBud420 said:


> Name some things he has done besides being ''hung on a cross'' for us all..
> agian...not saying your wrong im just curios to know.


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## KindBud420 (Mar 2, 2008)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> First of all your putting God on the same level as man, and God wasnt the first man on earth, Adam was.... He created it, so the being that created all man kind earth, space, and the heavens and is responsible for all my good fortune, and blessing, has the right to do whatever, and the power over all and to do all.


i dont get what your talking about man
say it again. 
Just explain how god has all these powers and we dont.. hes a man just like you and me.. but people worship him like he is there..have you met him? '
the only people i know who met him are meth heads. or crack addicts


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## KindBud420 (Mar 2, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> many things! atleast for me, protected my mother from my father, gave my brother a good life, im living in a very good neighborhood and i have a nice house. God blesses all of us all you got to do is ask and listen! (dont mean to preach to you)


You gotta be kidding me. im not tryin to get on you but seriously. the way you people talk like that.. he gave your brother a good life? How..? Its up to YOU to do what you want in life. 
And you beleive in him because you live in a good neighborhood? and have a nice house? you got to have something better then that


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## KindBud420 (Mar 2, 2008)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> To me that is enough, read the bible man, Jesus did much more than that, and if it wasnt for Him, "hanging on the cross" we would be struck down for our sin as they were commited. Jesus healed, feed, and changed many people heart from evil. He is the messenger for our prayer to God and He pleases our cases to God and was God's son who was BLAMELESS!!! and He died for us, when we are nothing but dust in the wind...... So that we could have everlasting life, I wont preach to anyone that doesnt ask, but you did and it seems to me you are seeking knowledge and need to start with the bible. Put all your fear and prejustice to the side and just give it a genuine try... you will be surprised how God speaks to you when you listen....


 
all i wanted was someone to persuade me to believe in god and you guys dont have nothing . 
i prayed when my g-pa had cancer and he still died. what happened with that? i always try that shit when something bad happens and i guess he doesnt want to listen to some people? i dont know.. or maybe its just reality and we have to stop basing our lives on some book that was written a million years ago and a man we have never met or seen.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Mar 2, 2008)

Look dude i dont know what you are talking about, first you say you may believe, then you say you do, now you are jumping on peeps who say thay do... honestly you seem confused...... And yea i know God and Jesus and the Holy Sprit, talk to them daily on a personal level. God has all power cause he created ALL, we did create Him, HE created all, so he can control all, He is the one and only GOD, there is NONE like him. billions of us, we cant even control more than 10% of our brain and that is your a genius!!! That why we cant do what he does..... And oh yea i dont do meth or crack or acid or heroin... I just smoke weed the GOD made stuff!!!



KindBud420 said:


> Honestly i believe that their MIGHT be a god. But I think the People Who worship jesus and go to church every sunday are crazy. You shouldnt Worship somebody, especially when theirs no proof he really exist. IM sure there is a Satan just as their is a God.
> 
> PS. All the people who were Ex- Crack Addicts / Meth Addicts Dont count Just because they say they FOund god (head from Korn)..Thats proof right there that people are crazy for worshiping


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## ace1059 (Mar 2, 2008)

KindBud420 said:


> all i wanted was someone to persuade me to believe in god and you guys dont have nothing .
> i prayed when my g-pa had cancer and he still died. what happened with that? i always try that shit when something bad happens and i guess he doesnt want to listen to some people? i dont know.. or maybe its just reality and we have to stop basing our lives on some book that was written a million years ago and a man we have never met or seen.


everything happens for a reason, do you think God just was like hmm im gona take this person to die...no its all for a reason. Im guessing you live in the UK or the U.S. We are all BLESSED! look at the people in africa or iraq, there lives are so hard and they live in such poverty, That is ONE of the things God has done for you. And for me I am probably the closest in U.S.S to live in poverty = detroit. and the bible is only 2000 years old (when jesus died, 2000 years ago lol)
*
edit
*mybad only the NEW testiment is 2000 years old lol


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Mar 2, 2008)

I am soory to hear about your Grandfather, i lost my dad last year and i know how painful that can be. What i can tell you is he is better off where he is now, and i know the same with my father. Its not this life we are living for, its the everlasting one after this, with Him, thats what some people seem to forget, this life is just preparing us for the next. It something far better than this world. Death is just a part of life, but dont blame God, thank Him, for stopping your Grandfathers suffering. God always hears our prayer, but its His Will that over rides all, and His Will is always going to lead you down the right path because everything happen for the greater good. The thing of it is Kindbud, is no one can persude you to believe in Christ, God gave us free will, so you can decide to come to Him on your own in truth, He wants you to see His truth thru your own eyes not someone elses persuation. I go to church read my bible, but not everyday, but i do it regualrly, so i can give Him that time He wants and needs from us, cause in the end all He wants is to be with us. Stop making God sooo complicated, because he is not. Life is full of test... but they are to make us stronger. 



KindBud420 said:


> all i wanted was someone to persuade me to believe in god and you guys dont have nothing .
> i prayed when my g-pa had cancer and he still died. what happened with that? i always try that shit when something bad happens and i guess he doesnt want to listen to some people? i dont know.. or maybe its just reality and we have to stop basing our lives on some book that was written a million years ago and a man we have never met or seen.


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## VintageGrow (Mar 2, 2008)

Kindbud 420:
They can't give you anything because they don't have anything to give you except "faith". 

It's the old "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" bumpersticker.

This is what the Bible says about public (school) prayer and in my interpretation, evangelical preachers as well. This is red letter text (Jesus speaking):

Matthew 6:5-8
5"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

I'm pretty sure I must be misinterpreting this though, as it seems to fly in the face of what most evangelical Christians practice.


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## ace1059 (Mar 2, 2008)

VintageGrow said:


> Kindbud 420:
> They can't give you anything because they don't have anything to give you except "faith".
> 
> It's the old "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" bumpersticker.
> ...


HAHAH that verse basically means *do not pray boastfully, "as for everyone to see" but be humble and do it in private. *and honestly if this is what you bring up to tell *kingbud *so that it may bring falseness to the bible then thats sad, im confused why did u decide to say that it was kind of random.


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## VintageGrow (Mar 2, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> HAHAH that verse basically means *do not pray boastfully, "as for everyone to see" but be humble and do it in private. *and honestly if this is what you bring up to tell *kingbud *so that it may bring falseness to the bible then thats sad, im confused why did u decide to say that it was kind of random.


Ace:

I'm sorry, I'm confused. Are you a professional Jesus interpreter? What gives you the special knowledge to tell me what Jesus "basically means"?

Don't take that wrong, I'm not personally attacking you... I'm just curious what gives a man, any man, the power to interpret God's printed word for another man? If it is truly God's infallible word...

VG


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## ace1059 (Mar 2, 2008)

VintageGrow said:


> Ace:
> I'm sorry, I'm confused. Are you a professional Jesus interpreter? What gives you the special knowledge to tell me what Jesus "basically means"?
> 
> Don't take that wrong, I'm not personally attacking you... I'm just curious what gives a man, any man, the power to interpret God's printed word for another man? If it is truly God's infallible word...


ok read this


> *Matthew 5:29-30
> *29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.


now do actualy think jesus wanted us to cut our hands off, and to answer you nothing does, im just using basic knowledge


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## VintageGrow (Mar 2, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> ok read this
> now do actualy think jesus wanted us to cut our hands off, and to answer you nothing does, im just using basic knowledge


Ok, I'll actually give you some license here. What does Jesus mean in this passage? Or what do you think he means? If he is speaking figuratively, what is the analogy?


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## ace1059 (Mar 2, 2008)

its basically saying *to avoid temptation, *lets say you like to bully kids on myspace and you know that its wrong, well then you should delete your myspace account (not saying you do this) or if you have lustful or bad thoughts of some one when your around them, then you should just stay away from them to avoid the temptation, i have the same problem with bible verses like this but my youth pastor clears alot up for me.


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## VintageGrow (Mar 2, 2008)

Interesting... see I don't understand if what you say he meant is what he meant to say, why didn't he just say it that way (ok, I admit, MySpace wasn't around then, but you know what I mean)? I mean, why go into all the blood and gore to make a point about resisting temptation?


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## ace1059 (Mar 2, 2008)

it was a parable, i think thats what they are called, and jesus liked to use them as telling stories to tell the people, it would catch people attention and probably made them think about it, like that verse, if it said just what it meant then i would of probably never remembered it lol


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## smearnovice (Mar 2, 2008)

There has to be something after death, even though I can't say i can associate myself with any religion.


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## overfiend (Mar 3, 2008)

KAOSOWNER said:


> God is ultimate and supreme he absolutely exists!!!! The facts that exist are you me and some great Marijuana. ( NO GOD = NO WEED ) Ha beat that lol


you are 100% correct how can you deny there is a greater power.
even from a scientific point of view human DNA is so complex that it is almostr impossable that it just existed or happened by accident.

so complex it must have been created by a greater power===GOD


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## email468 (Mar 3, 2008)

overfiend said:


> you are 100% correct how can you deny there is a greater power.
> even from a scientific point of view human DNA is so complex that it is almostr impossable that it just existed or happened by accident.
> 
> so complex it must have been created by a greater power===GOD


I don't believe there is a single scientific point of view regarding the existence of a god, gods or goddesses. There are atheist scientists and Christian scientists. Muslim scientists and Buddhist scientists. Science does not have a unified voice - when scientists mostly agree it is because of evidence.

I will say, however, that your argument about the complexity of DNA has been around a long time. It is called irreducible complexity and is not a valid "scientific" argument for the existence of God. Besides, if you believe in God - who needs scientific evidence? While I personally think faith (belief without evidence) is a terrible thing, many folks consider it a virtue. And perhaps, if i were in their shoes, I would feel the same way - i'm not here to judge. I will merely point out that if you value faith then you don't need proof or evidence of God's existence.


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Mar 3, 2008)

email468 said:


> I will merely point out that if you value faith then you don't need proof or evidence of God's existence.


Well said......


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## email468 (Mar 3, 2008)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> Well said......


thanks 1puff2puff3puff - i've seen your other posts on this thread and you've probably seen mine but when you look for common ground you usually find it.


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## VintageGrow (Mar 4, 2008)

overfiend said:


> you are 100% correct how can you deny there is a greater power.
> even from a scientific point of view human DNA is so complex that it is almostr impossable that it just existed or happened by accident.
> 
> so complex it must have been created by a greater power===GOD


I note with interest the qualifier "almost impossible", "almost" implying the possibility that DNA did just exist or happen by accident, eh?


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## Titania (Mar 4, 2008)

overfiend said:


> you are 100% correct how can you deny there is a greater power.
> even from a scientific point of view human DNA is so complex that it is almostr impossable that it just existed or happened by accident.
> 
> so complex it must have been created by a greater power===GOD


 
Right so God being as complex as he must be, using your logic he must of also been created... ahhh catch 22. 

A watch is complex, but that wasn't created by a God, but by mortal human hands.


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## mastakoosh (Mar 4, 2008)

good to see god is winning the vote, so we dont go to hell in a hand basket.


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## KindBud420 (Mar 4, 2008)

mastakoosh said:


> good to see god is winning the vote, so we dont go to hell in a hand basket.


AMEN !!


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## Bamm Bamm (Mar 4, 2008)

I dunno I was raised catholic my whole life went through the whole confirmation thing but I've just never really felt it... I mean how am I supposed to believe in something in tangible and then just reley on the old addage "He always was and always is" or whatever that crap is... Im not really quite sure in what I believe anymore.. I believe there's some sort of higher power than us, but I don't know exactly what it is...


Anyone ever seen the movie the thirteenth floor???? Don't you sometimes just feel like we're all someones little science project...




"If the whole world is going to Hell I'm the one driving the Bus"


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## Darque (Mar 4, 2008)

Well i think, that when you close yourself of from the physical world, you dont see, you dont feel, you dont hear, you dont taste, just cut yourself of. 

That your still there. 

Arnt you, still you, i think that is the soul, and people must beleive, everyone somehow beleives in a higher power, or a unity of soul with everything, something spiritual. no matter how much they say they arnt religious or whatever.

Because do you really think a human wouldnt go insane if he/she knew that they were alone? That there wasnt something higher?

In saying this i also think all religions are a basis of controlling evil, and will have no part of any of them. 
It disgusts me to think people are so controlled by the convience of a "god" through any decidely whorshipping way.

And in saying that, i still have many friends in many cultures, like hindu, christian, muslim, whatever. Accept them but i still strongly disagree with that they follow.
cause they are still people, with their 'soul' and thats what your supposed to like.


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## LiveHigh (Mar 5, 2008)

If you're religious, this is all you have to ask yourself. What religion am I? Do I disbelieve all other religions? and finally, If I was born in another country, would I still be the same religion I am now? The answer is no. Your current religion is your religion because of where you were born and raised, and what was the popular religion in that area. If you were born in Afghanistan, chances are you'd be a muslim.

If that doesn't open yourself up to the light that it's all bullshit. I don't know what will.


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## Titania (Mar 5, 2008)

LiveHigh said:


> If you're religious, this is all you have to ask yourself. What religion am I? Do I disbelieve all other religions? and finally, If I was born in another country, would I still be the same religion I am now? The answer is no. Your current religion is your religion because of where you were born and raised, and what was the popular religion in that area. If you were born in Afghanistan, chances are you'd be a muslim.
> 
> If that doesn't open yourself up to the light that it's all bullshit. I don't know what will.


 
Well said. I love your avatar *BTW, had the image myself.*


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## VintageGrow (Mar 5, 2008)

mastakoosh said:


> good to see god is winning the vote, so we dont go to hell in a hand basket.


Huh? I dont' know how you're reading that poll, but the way I'm reading it is that the "Christian" god is losing...

149 to 102

149 = Those who don't believe in any higher power plus those who don't believe in the "Christian" god.

102 = Those who believe in "God"

VG


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## mastakoosh (Mar 5, 2008)

VintageGrow said:


> Huh? I dont' know how you're reading that poll, but the way I'm reading it is that the "Christian" god is losing...
> 
> 149 to 102
> 
> ...


 huh who said anything about a christian god?


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## email468 (Mar 5, 2008)

We can all vote but it really doesn't change a thing.

Let's all vote on whether my new seedling will turn out to be a male or female.

I of course will vote for a female and would hope everyone else would as well. But it doesn't matter cause the plant is going to be male or female regardless of which sex won the vote.

Voting what we believe is real doesn't change what really is...


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## LiveHigh (Mar 5, 2008)

Titania said:


> Well said. I love your avatar *BTW, had the image myself.*


Thanks. Your avatar blows mine out of the water though 

-LH


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## willgrow1day (Mar 6, 2008)

THERE IS ONLY 1 GOD, AND EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE AND EVERYONE IS AN IMAGE OF GOD,


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 6, 2008)

Take break in some silence 

and enjoy and dont be nieave


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 6, 2008)

Looks like there has to be somthing much much greater than life here on earth


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 6, 2008)

The structure of the universe


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 6, 2008)




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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 6, 2008)




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## email468 (Mar 6, 2008)

lovely pictures - that shot of the sombrero galaxy is very impressive - looks like a hubble shot. no comment on the use of the phrase "has to be" ...


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 6, 2008)




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## email468 (Mar 6, 2008)

whoa dude -it is cool - we can go to the NASA or hubble site - no need to replicate it here!


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 6, 2008)

email468 said:


> whoa dude -it is cool - we can go to the NASA or hubble site - no need to replicate it here!


 
It speaks louder than some idiots saying there is or isent a god ,


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## email468 (Mar 6, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> Thats what it is thou im no scentist


if you really want a thrill - go to a "star party" hosted by your local amateur astronomer's group - they will usually let you look through their scopes! very impressive to see these things first hand. The images through a scope are all black and white (our eyes can't make out the color - not enough photons!) but seeing these things in real time is, i think, even more impressive than the hubble shots - though the hubble pictures are far more detailed and colorful.


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## email468 (Mar 6, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> It speaks louder than some idiots saying there is or isent a god ,


to a scientist, the universe doesn't speak either way. scientists look for natural causes and so far have found them.

the universe is made to be far more hospitable to black holes than life - in fact our universe is as close to a perfect black hole generator as possible. Life seems to be a fragile by-product of black hole creation.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 6, 2008)

email468 said:


> to a scientist, the universe doesn't speak either way. scientists look for natural causes and so far have found them.
> 
> the universe is made to be far more hospitable to black holes than life - in fact our universe is as close to a perfect black hole generator as possible. Life seems to be a fragile by-product of black hole creation.


 
Yea the scientists know mybe just a little bit more than us about the univirse ect. or even a god has them still confused to prove right or wrong they probily been even having the same arguments as the people on this site its just people are lead to believe scientists becouse they have did some studies on somthing they really know not to much about back to the theory thing ? or should it be called a thought just ?

this thread is was really just a bitchy 1 to start of with in the 1st place its all argument that has went on from the begining of time up to you what thoughts ya want to believe


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## email468 (Mar 6, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> Yea the scientists know mybe just a little bit more than us about the univirse ect. or even a god has them still confused to prove right or wrong they probily been even having the same arguments as the people on this site its just people are lead to believe scientists becouse they have did some studies on somthing they really know not to much about back to the theory thing ? or should it be called a thought just ?
> 
> this thread is was really just a bitchy 1 to start of with in the 1st place its all argument that has went on from the begining of time up to you what thoughts ya want to believe


that's right. scientists do know a good deal more than a lot of us about many things but that doesn't mean they are any more correct when speculating. Most scientists deal in the world of "most likely" or "not very likely" rather than "definitely yes" or "definitely no". And while there isn't any evidence for an anthropomorphic god that meddles in humanities affairs (like the kind in most bibles), that doesn't mean one doesn't exist - but a scientist would probably use the phrase - it is unlikely that one exists.

And while scientists like Behi and Dawkins can argue about the existence or likelihood of a god, that doesn't make their conclusions correct. Science may never be able to answer that question but if science can't, chances are good nothing else will be able to answer the question either. Other than time and death of course.

I enjoy discussing this but unfortunately folks who have a firm belief can get very irate. I'm not sure why, if an atheist like myself can speculate about the existence of god, why it is so difficult for theists to speculate that there isn't.

The most often heard argument goes something like this : "when i look around at the world and universe and see all the diversity of life here on Earth and the wonders of outer space, i can't imagine there not being a God." 

Here's the thing - just because that person can not imagine or understand or comprehend is not proof god exists. Saying things like "there just has to be" or "how could there not be", again, is not proof. Another words, somebody "needing" a god to explain their surroundings is not proof that god exists!

It is akin to making something up in a formula so "it works" rather than solving the formula correctly.

so ultimately the question of "is there a god" is currently unanswerable and the rest is rhetoric and speculation. 

So far, so good, right? Well here is where it gets a bit sticky.

I say things get sticky, because there is plenty of scientific evidence that refutes the folks who literally interpret their holy texts (rather than read them as allegory). Things like 7-day creation, the great flood, the exodus, etc... are all refuted by very, very strong scientific evidence (or absence of evidence in favor of said event). Short of the devil planting the evidence, believing in these things means either ignoring or disbelieving the evidence or not being aware of the evidence. I think it is the literalists that have the most to "lose" when conversations like this occur.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 6, 2008)

Thats the point man there is no evidance becouse all this happened was happening millions and millions of years befour there even was an earth , 
Galaxys and universes were still forming (if thats what even happen just another theory) theres some scientific facts untill a sertian extent like 1 them little dots on the pic,s of the universe thats how much they would know , Thats why they are called theorys used by wise mean thats been studying the subject all there life and thats the best they can come up with , thou non of them can actually say its prof , That this is how it happen or this is what happened in the begining , There is a god or there isent a god 

Its Just all other people thoughts and views and they have been trying from the begining of time to work out becouse as humans wee need things 2 be in black and white or we just say its crazy or make fun of the preclamer like when the earth was flat. 

No 1 will ever know .................


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## email468 (Mar 6, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> Thats the point man there is no evidance becouse all this happened was happening millions and millions of years befour there even was an earth ,
> Galaxys and universes were still forming (if thats what even happen just another theory) theres some scientific facts untill a sertian extent like 1 them little dots on the pic,s of the universe thats how much they would know , Thats why they are called theorys used by wise mean thats been studying the subject all there life and thats the best they can come up with , thou non of them can actually say its prof , That this is how it happen or this is what happened in the begining , There is a god or there isent a god
> 
> Its Just all other people thoughts and views and they have been trying from the begining of time to work out becouse as humans wee need things 2 be in black and white or we just say its crazy or make fun of the preclamer like when the earth was flat.
> ...



It is true that if you desire absolute certainty then science is not the route to take. There always will be errors bars/margins.

BUT - there is quite a bit more that we do know about the universe than a lot of people think. Like the relative size and shape, the aprox. age and how the early universe formed. And while new evidence could appear that blows some of the theories away. The more theories we build on existing theories - which work - the more likely the earlier theories are correct.

It really is fascinating to learn about this stuff. i love it!


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## ace1059 (Mar 6, 2008)

willgrow1day said:


> Sorry to say but Jesus,Jews Christians(White) and Islam(Mohammed Muslims),are the Biggest fuck ups to this world cocksucking crusading cunt fucks and lets not forget Alexander the cunt' and still a fucking problem today bringing nothing good to this world besides lies murder and deception, all fucking gay nazi's,
> 
> sorry but there might be more


wat the hell?! are you high right now! just dont talk anymore lol


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## aqueous (Mar 6, 2008)

rev3la7ion said:


> Well here are some other things I have problems with:
> Moses; First of all, the idea of an ark that was supposedly capable of carrying 2 of every animal in the world being built in one mans life-time by that one man with little help is inconceivable. Secondly, Moses is based on a Syrian myth about 'Misis'.
> 
> Another thing is that the mythical overlay in the bible is almost unbearable; to me that is.
> ...


Kind of on the subject of the scientology guy admitting that it was fake, Charles Darwin wrote the Origin of Species before modern technology such as microscopes. In it he said that if as technology gets better and we can see the smaller things (like bacteria, amino acids, etc.) then if they are as complex as the human body, then his Theory of Evolution should be thrown out the window. Unfortunately this part isnt taught in schools.


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## mountainSpliff (Mar 8, 2008)

hmm time for some coffee


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## email468 (Mar 8, 2008)

aqueous said:


> Kind of on the subject of the scientology guy admitting that it was fake, Charles Darwin wrote the Origin of Species before modern technology such as microscopes. In it he said that if as technology gets better and we can see the smaller things (like bacteria, amino acids, etc.) then if they are as complex as the human body, then his Theory of Evolution should be thrown out the window. Unfortunately this part isnt taught in schools.


Darwin said nothing of the kind. In fact, modern technology - along with new sciences like genetics has shown Darwin to be mostly correct in his theory of natural selection. Also note - the "theory" is natural selection - not evolution.


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## Bamm Bamm (Mar 13, 2008)




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## Cannabolic (Mar 13, 2008)

1puff2puff3puff said:


> Alot of people believe that if you smoke weed, that you dont, but who put weed here, so how can it be wrong, I am not religous, but i am on FIRE FOR CHRIST, but i am not a person who judges, and i feel no one has the right.


GENESIS 1:12 "and the earth brought forth grass and HERB yeilding seed after his kind, and the tree yeilding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and god saw that it was good". meaning god placed the herbs and the fruits on the earth and it represented himself. 

so the way i see it. not smoking herb would be like a slap in the face to god because we are pretty much dissin somthin that is a representation of our father.


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## Cannabolic (Mar 13, 2008)

i believe in god because thats what i knew since i was a little boy. plus salvation has become a nessesity for civilized society. without god, there is no more reason to love. everyone would kill eachother because there would be no fear of hell. people would diminish to the simplisity of nature and grown men would start fuckin 12 year old girls, to have kids. we would pretty much go back to the dark ages and the world as we know it would be over. me personally i believe in god. and i believe in jesus christ. so even if god is a lie then i would rather live my life believing that lie. doing what i can as a christian in hopes that i go to heaven when i die. but when i die and im not in heavin, im just in a hole. then fuck it. i don't care im dead. at least i died with love in my heart. with hopes that they will open up thoes pearly gates and pass me a blunt. and direct me to the poker table. lol


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## email468 (Mar 13, 2008)

Cannabolic said:


> i believe in god because thats what i knew since i was a little boy. plus salvation has become a nessesity for civilized society. without god, there is no more reason to love. everyone would kill eachother because there would be no fear of hell. people would diminish to the simplisity of nature and grown men would start fuckin 12 year old girls, to have kids. we would pretty much go back to the dark ages and the world as we know it would be over. me personally i believe in god. and i believe in jesus christ. so even if god is a lie then i would rather live my life believing that lie. doing what i can as a christian in hopes that i go to heaven when i die. but when i die and im not in heavin, im just in a hole. then fuck it. i don't care im dead. at least i died with love in my heart. with hopes that they will open up thoes pearly gates and pass me a blunt. and direct me to the poker table. lol


I respect your right to believe what you want however you make some assumptions about non-believers that I would like to refute. I do not believe in god and i do not participate in nor do i advocate the heinous crimes you enumerate in your post. Further, i would recommend you do some serious soul searching if the only thing preventing you from doing these terrible things is a tenuous belief system. I would also argue that science, not god, was the cause of the enlightenment. I mean no offense but your bold statements prompted me to respond.


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## Cannabolic (Mar 13, 2008)

email468 said:


> I respect your right to believe what you want however you make some assumptions about non-believers that I would like to refute. I do not believe in god and i do not participate in nor do i advocate the heinous crimes you enumerate in your post. Further, i would recommend you do some serious soul searching if the only thing preventing you from doing these terrible things is a tenuous belief system. I would also argue that science, not god, was the cause of the enlightenment. I mean no offense but your bold statements prompted me to respond.


listen, im sorry if you took offense to what i said.and i respect your opinon as well. not to say non believers dont have goodness in their hearts (one of my best friends is a non believer) but think about how many ppl there are that practice christanity. if all thoes ppl found out that there wassent a god what do you think would happen? i kno if i found out there wassent a god. i would be like "fuck it" and all the things i pratice would be thrown out the window.why do you think the roman catholic church hid the thruth about jesus christ? because they were afraid that the church would lose fallowers. and as far as the enlighenment your right. its mostly science.(hence enlightenment) but im not talking about the enlightenment. im talking about somthing that was taught for thousands of years being nothing but some campfire stories. and yes a big reason why i don't do terrible things is because of my religion. because think about it if you grew up in a society where killing someone or robbing someone wouldn't be wrong, would doing so be doing somthing bad? think about this in the united states its Illegal to murder someone why? because our country is built from christianity and murder is in the commandments. if god said it was ok to kill i think it would be legal to kill someone in the united states.
my example:the middle east. they run by a diffrient set of rules. and the a countries government represents their religion. and to us killing yourself for your people is wrong. BUT to them its right, its holy. so whoes to say whoes right or wrong when it comes to morality so bottom line i don't do terrible things because the bible (which is where alot of our laws come from) tells me not to. and the bible helps me to be a better person. and it gives me a reason to do so. and god or no god if you live in the united states and you fallow the basic laws then you fallowing the bible which is the word of god.


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## email468 (Mar 14, 2008)

Cannabolic said:


> listen, im sorry if you took offense to what i said.and i respect your opinon as well. not to say non believers dont have goodness in their hearts (one of my best friends is a non believer) but think about how many ppl there are that practice christanity. if all thoes ppl found out that there wassent a god what do you think would happen? i kno if i found out there wassent a god. i would be like "fuck it" and all the things i pratice would be thrown out the window.why do you think the roman catholic church hid the thruth about jesus christ? because they were afraid that the church would lose fallowers. and as far as the enlighenment your right. its mostly science.(hence enlightenment) but im not talking about the enlightenment. im talking about somthing that was taught for thousands of years being nothing but some campfire stories. and yes a big reason why i don't do terrible things is because of my religion. because think about it if you grew up in a society where killing someone or robbing someone wouldn't be wrong, would doing so be doing somthing bad? think about this in the united states its Illegal to murder someone why? because our country is built from christianity and murder is in the commandments. if god said it was ok to kill i think it would be legal to kill someone in the united states.
> my example:the middle east. they run by a diffrient set of rules. and the a countries government represents their religion. and to us killing yourself for your people is wrong. BUT to them its right, its holy. so whoes to say whoes right or wrong when it comes to morality so bottom line i don't do terrible things because the bible (which is where alot of our laws come from) tells me not to. and the bible helps me to be a better person. and it gives me a reason to do so. and god or no god if you live in the united states and you fallow the basic laws then you fallowing the bible which is the word of god.


It's cool. I think I get what you're saying and I think you get what I'm saying too. That is religion doesn't have a monopoly on morality and nearly all religions have the downside of being able to be twisted into a terrible caricature of itself. One of my favorite and often quoted sayings is - it takes nothing for an evil man to commit evil acts, but in order for a good man to commit evil acts - it takes religion.

I wasn't offended personally but was hoping that we agreed that there are non-theistic, atheistic, and agnostic folks that are moral. And we do - I wish all believers were as cool about non-belief (or different beliefs) as you.


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## crazy-mental (Mar 14, 2008)

Zeitgeist - The Movie
i believe this.
not a book of lies.


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## Wikidbchofthewst (Mar 14, 2008)

I believe in God. I was raised Catholic, but I have a lot of problems with the Church. Not just because of the child molesting priests. Throughout history the Church has done a lot of wrong while hiding behind the name of God. 

But no matter what there is wrong with the Church, I do believe in God. The most logical way I've ever heard it explained is the whole Unmoved Mover. 


There exists movement in the world.
Things that move were set into motion by something else.
If everything that moves was caused to move by something else, there would be an infinite chain of causes. This can't happen.
Thus, there must have been something that caused the first movement.
From 3, this first cause cannot itself have been moved.
From 4, there must be an unmoved mover.


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## Cannabolic (Mar 14, 2008)

email468 said:


> It's cool. I think I get what you're saying and I think you get what I'm saying too. That is religion doesn't have a monopoly on morality and nearly all religions have the downside of being able to be twisted into a terrible caricature of itself. One of my favorite and often quoted sayings is - it takes nothing for an evil man to commit evil acts, but in order for a good man to commit evil acts - it takes religion.
> 
> I wasn't offended personally but was hoping that we agreed that there are non-theistic, atheistic, and agnostic folks that are moral. And we do - I wish all believers were as cool about non-belief (or different beliefs) as you.


lol yea thats my fault for not explaining myself. i kinda re-read what i wrote as an agnostic and i was like "damn i'd be pissed if i saw that" but na im not saying you don't have morals. and that quote u posed is true (hence the crusades) lol. and when it comes to religion there is no right or wrong, you pretty much live life the best way you can and hope things work out for the best. some people fallow what their parents and grandparents told them and keep it movin. myself, i try to keep the same princibles but i try to think for myself when it comes to religion u kno?


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 14, 2008)

This thread makes me laugh why must people get on like assholes if some 1 believes theres a god or not if u do or dont believe what diffrence does it make to anothers life if your at peace with what you believe it should not make any diffrence to you at all , 

Then theres the other asshole that post pics saying religion is always getting rammed in your face just to insult or be annoying ..again its just other people view or beliefs why feel the need to get your knickers in a twist over it or try and be insulting i dunno 

What diffrence does it make to your life what another person believes ?


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## crazy-mental (Mar 14, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> This thread makes me laugh why must people get on like assholes if some 1 believes theres a god or not if u do or dont believe what diffrence does it make to anothers life if your at peace with what you believe it should not make any diffrence to you at all ,
> 
> Then theres the other asshole that post pics saying religion is always getting rammed in your face just to insult or be annoying ..again its just other people view or beliefs why feel the need to get your knickers in a twist over it or try and be insulting i dunno
> 
> What diffrence does it make to your life what another person believes ?


because they never shut about, a man in the sky.lol
as if.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 14, 2008)

crazy-mental said:


> because they never shut about, a man in the sky.lol
> as if.


 
Dont be 1 of the idiots crazy horse 

No 1 forces nothing on no 1 or has it been seen on this thread its every 1s free choice to make up there mind what they believe , with out some silly moron shuting out silly comments


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## Barrelhse (Mar 14, 2008)

Absolutely not. Such an absurd concept.


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## willgrow1day (Mar 14, 2008)

'SO CALLED' mary' was raped,or she was A slut,
this world revolves fake white man bull shit, jesus is fake.


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## jollygreengiant8 (Mar 14, 2008)

afterlife or heaven or whatever you want to call it all seems a little too fairytale for me...im pretty sure that when you die, youre dead and thats it. we only have a short time in life and i dont want to shortchange anything just bc jesus said dont do it.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 14, 2008)

willgrow1day said:


> 'SO CALLED' mary' was raped,or she was A slut,
> this world revolves fake white man bull shit, jesus is fake.


 
hehe just another idiot that has no piece of faith in his own belifes so he just Insults what he cant understand 

some 1 send me a private pm saying thats how u came about man thats why it makes u so angry with others thoughts


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Mar 14, 2008)

I think this is the STUPIDEST comment made thus far!!! I sent you the PM Shoot...lol j/k!!



willgrow1day said:


> 'SO CALLED' mary' was raped,or she was A slut,
> this world revolves fake white man bull shit, jesus is fake.


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## cream8 (Mar 14, 2008)

wow...you guys are really having a deep conversation here.not


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## LiveHigh (Mar 15, 2008)

Wikidbchofthewst said:


> I believe in God. I was raised Catholic, but I have a lot of problems with the Church. Not just because of the child molesting priests. Throughout history the Church has done a lot of wrong while hiding behind the name of God.
> 
> But no matter what there is wrong with the Church, I do believe in God. The most logical way I've ever heard it explained is the whole Unmoved Mover.
> 
> ...


 
Haha. Okay, and there is no such thing as stillness without movement.

I've read numerous people post these little multi-step if/then statements, and all of them are ridiculous. I mean, seriously, can you read those 6 steps and come out of it thinking, "Yeah! There has to be a God!"

So what's your logic for how the unmoved mover came about? You didn't seem to have to investigate that at all. It's, like, if yadayadayada then there must be a God. Well, I have news for you: The existence of God is equally as impossible as the existence of the world (more like impossible for us to conceive). But, not only is the existence of God impossible; it is incredibly illogical. Atleat we have science discovering more day by day. It wont be long before science unravels exactly what happened to create this crazy place.

Need you forget how complex this universe is? If there was a God, why on earth we he make this place so incredibly complicated and fucked up? Why would there be, undoubtedly, millions of uninhabited stars, doing nothing but wasting space (literally). If there was going to be an all powerful God that could do or create anything they wished, they would certainly make a simple and effective world. Also where did God exist in before he created the world? If he came before the world. If God doesn't have a body, and can exist even in supposed nothingness, how does he create ANYTHING? No mind to imagine it upon. No hands to build it. No mouth to speak it. Nothing.

God is an imagined and fantastical explanation to why we're here. There is something wrong if you can't see that. It's as obvious as 2+2 to an intelligent person.


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## boooky (Mar 15, 2008)

If I was god would you guys suck my penis?

Thats the real question here...What would you do for god?!?! Suck his penis!?!

This might seem harsh but im high and this is way better conversation...Lets say your concept is right......BUT...To get to heaven you have to suck "Gods" dick....You going to heaven? Or walking back down the stairs with me a Woody Harelson?


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 15, 2008)

boooky said:


> If I was god would you guys suck my penis?
> 
> Thats the real question here...What would you do for god?!?! Suck his penis!?!
> 
> This might seem harsh but im high and this is way better conversation...Lets say your concept is right......BUT...To get to heaven you have to suck "Gods" dick....You going to heaven? Or walking back down the stairs with me a Woody Harelson?


 
Im guessing u were high 1 night and some 1 talked u into sucking there penis in order to get too heaven ... no ?


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## willgrow1day (Mar 15, 2008)

bun donw the chichi


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## boooky (Mar 15, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> Im guessing u were high 1 night and some 1 talked u into sucking there penis in order to get too heaven ... no ?


LMAO awsome........Actually yeah then he made a good point going to church every weekend shouldnt need to happen if you beleive. All you doing is sucking off the preist and paying his rent because he says what he says.

Church is for money they are a buisness all of them have collection plates not an act from "god" if you ask me.

The people going to church are driving Kias while the man they are blessed by drives a cadilac? Shananagins.......Next time your at church notice the different tone the preist gets when the collection plates come out he gives some sad ass shit then preys more then ever....Why? Because that money hitting the plate is all he wants it gets his rocks off feeds his kids...What ever happen to not having children? Oh yeah because its bullshit all they want is money.

All you need is the faith to not stay in this hell when you die and if hes that cool of a guy he will accept. You ask me personaly if you guys are right god would be kinda pissed off for trying to change peoples faith. Weather their faith is worms and bugs who are you to judge?


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 16, 2008)

You dont have to go to church to believe in god ! 
i dont go to mass but i believe and them people that go walking to mass acting like they are better than others they are just hypocrites trying to prove they are better people but the real people humble and respectful that go to chapal purely becouse they believe in there faith are true .. 

I dont understand why little asshole have to go out of there way to insult these people im sure there life would be a lot better if they could live with out meting these sort of people so why must use get involved in there life ?

But if they do choose to go to mass to show respect to there faith or pray for loved ones its there choice

Why do u just mind your own buisness man they are not doing any harm in going to mass to respect what they believe 

Who are you any way to judge some 1s faith its there choice to live and believe what they do. The same way you choose not to believe no 1s calling use a* cock sucker* for what ever sort of crap use believe in 


.


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## boooky (Mar 16, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> You dont have to go to church to believe in god !
> i dont go to mass but i believe and them people that go walking to mass acting like they are better than others they are just hypocrites trying to prove they are better people but the real people humble and respectful that go to chaple purely becouse they believe in there faith are true ..
> 
> I dont understand why little asshole have to go out of there way to insult these people im sure there life would be a lot better if they could live with out metting these sort of people so why must use get involved in there life ?
> ...


Then you dont beleive in "God" you believe in higher power......The word God is over rated im my own "God" I know more about me and my own powers so that makes me a "God" of me.....Thats how the word "God" came about not as the creater of man but a powerfull being with "imortal" thoughts and powers maybe even money back then we will never know.

Just remember we all think differently so thoughts on "God" is my dad can beat your daddy up type shit.


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## SlipSlide (Mar 16, 2008)

Evolution...we all came from monkeys, its true i swear it.


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## email468 (Mar 16, 2008)

SlipSlide said:


> Evolution...we all came from monkeys, its true i swear it.


Not sure if you're being facetious but ... monkeys branched off much earlier than apes and humans. More correctly, apes and humans diverged from the same common ancestor as did monkeys and all primates. But monkeys did not become apes and apes did not become humans.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 16, 2008)

boooky said:


> Then you dont beleive in "God" you believe in higher power......The word God is over rated im my own "God" I know more about me and my own powers so that makes me a "God" of me.....Thats how the word "God" came about not as the creater of man but a powerfull being with "imortal" thoughts and powers maybe even money back then we will never know.
> 
> Just remember we all think differently so thoughts on "God" is my dad can beat your daddy up type shit.



Dont try and tell me what i believe man .. Just shut up


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## Wikidbchofthewst (Mar 16, 2008)

email468 said:


> Not sure if you're being facetious but ... monkeys branched off much earlier than apes and humans. More correctly, apes and humans diverged from the same common ancestor as did monkeys and all primates. But monkeys did not become apes and apes did not become humans.


THANK YOU! I hate it when people refer to the theory of evolution by saying we came from monkeys. When the theory was first presented, its critics said "Oh, so we all came from monkeys?" And that's all anyone ever seems to remember about it!


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## boooky (Mar 16, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> Dont try and tell me what i believe man .. Just shut up


Im not dude lol im giving the deffinition of "God" see you always think people that beleive different are agianst you....You could have been a God back then if you brought poor people money or helped an old lady accross the street. Read the bibble it trys to tell everybody "You are your God" you make life what it is. His intention wasnt for people to fear living their life from living in a hell for eturnal(spelling). 

The bibble is a "book" with a good message if you see it more then that its like little girls looking at the backstreet boys..Live your life not some story book with a message.


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## PoseidonsNet (Mar 16, 2008)

Does God believe in you?

"Didst thou not know that your teaching says that WE are Gods?" 
- Jesus Christ after he was accused of blasphemy for claiming to be the son of God.

As for the monkeys - I think they are devolved humans.

It takes a long time for highly evolved creatures to evolve, as we are the highest, we must have been around the longest.

Evolution understands the process, but its like trying to decide what a 1 trillion piece puzzle looks like after you have found only seven of the pieces.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 16, 2008)

No ! The 1st words u sayed was you dont believe in god then Correct ? telling me what i believe lol

And your not defining God eather no 1 can ,To me your just giving me the views that you your self believe to be true .............

Now Listen to me before u go telling me what god is and what i believe and who is god im not scared of hell nor am i of dieing , i live my life as i want dont follow no book word for word or hold any guilt for any thing ive ever did and i dont live in fear there u go again trying to tell me what i believe and what i fear ,haha 

If your happy with all that stufff u believe in as i am with what i beileve you wouldent be hear trying to prove me wrong and even be arrogent enough to tell me what i believe in coz i dont go to mass 

WHAT DIFFERNCE IS IT MAKING IN YOUR LIFE WHAT I BELIEVE IN 2?


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## PoseidonsNet (Mar 16, 2008)

> WHAT DIFFERNCE IS IT MAKING IN YOUR LIFE WHAT I BELIEVE IN 2?


It makes al the difference, as 'The Godhead' is the sum of humanity's consciousness. Thus you and I are like fingers on the same hand. My little finger cares wether my thumb is working against it.


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## Wikidbchofthewst (Mar 16, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> My little finger cares wether my thumb is working against it.


LMAO

I don't know if you meant that to be funny, but it was.


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## email468 (Mar 16, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> As for the monkeys - I think they are devolved humans.
> 
> It takes a long time for highly evolved creatures to evolve, as we are the highest, we must have been around the longest.
> 
> Evolution understands the process, but its like trying to decide what a 1 trillion piece puzzle looks like after you have found only seven of the pieces.


No comment on the God part of your post, but your understanding of natural selection I believe is flawed in this regard. Evolution isn't trying or straining to create "higher" life forms. It happens because the mutations that aid in propagation tend to look as though they were designed because if they didn't "fit" the mutation would not survive. This is the process of natural selection - whatever works continues and improves, whatever doesn't is discarded.

And humans are hardly the most evolved, we merely have the most advanced brains. In fact, we're not even sure if larger brains is a good adaptation for us especially if our ethics and morals do not soon catch up to our technology. We have harnessed the power to destroy our world before we could evolve a higher moral ethic - one were we can live in peace with our fellow species ... all of them rather than desiring to destroy each other and our Earth wholesale. But I digress...

We have existed as a species for only a few millions years at most. The dinosaurs reigned on Earth for over 160 million years! About 40 thousand times as long as humans have existed and they are all extinct. Something for all of us to consider.


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## boooky (Mar 16, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> It makes al the difference, as 'The Godhead' is the sum of humanity's consciousness. Thus you and I are like fingers on the same hand. My little finger cares wether my thumb is working against it.


Dude im trippy high right now and thats by far awsome.......I dont even know what it means but I looked at my hand when you said it.


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## Wikidbchofthewst (Mar 16, 2008)

boooky said:


> Dude im trippy high right now and thats by far awsome.......I dont even know what it means but I looked at my hand when you said it.


Were your fingers all working together, or was there a rebellion going on?
</IMG>


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## ace1059 (Mar 16, 2008)

email468 said:


> And humans are hardly the most evolved, we merely have the most advanced brains. In fact, we're not even sure if larger brains is a good adaptation for us especially if our ethics and morals do not soon catch up to our technology. We have harnessed the power to destroy our world before we could evolve a higher moral ethic - one were we can live in peace with our fellow species ... all of them rather than desiring to destroy each other and our Earth wholesale. But I digress...


all thanks to Einstein lol


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## email468 (Mar 16, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> all thanks to Einstein lol


true enough - if not him it would have been somebody (others were toying with similar ideas - he published first).


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## Cannabolic (Mar 18, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> hehe just another idiot that has no piece of faith in his own belifes so he just Insults what he cant understand
> 
> some 1 send me a private pm saying thats how u came about man thats why it makes u so angry with others thoughts


lol. some ppl have given up. maybe they prayed and prayed for somthing and didn't get their answer so they quit believing. and they are so angry when somebody brings up religion.


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## email468 (Mar 18, 2008)

Cannabolic said:


> lol. some ppl have given up. maybe they prayed and prayed for somthing and didn't get their answer so they quit believing. and they are so angry when somebody brings up religion.


Some of us are angry at religion every time we remember those planes flying into the World Trade Center towers.


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## iblazethatkush (Mar 18, 2008)

Cannabolic said:


> lol. some ppl have given up. maybe they prayed and prayed for somthing and didn't get their answer so they quit believing. and they are so angry when somebody brings up religion.


LoL Thank you guys for proving to me atheists are cocksuckers. Appreciate it


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## iblazethatkush (Mar 18, 2008)

email468 said:


> Some of us are angry at religion every time we remember those planes flying into the World Trade Center towers.


Your the smartest guy in this thread. You should know that was your government not religion.


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## ace1059 (Mar 19, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> LoL Thank you guys for proving to me atheists are cocksuckers. Appreciate it


?? i dont know if you being sarcastic but atheist arent *cocksuckers *lol some are tho


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## We TaRdED (Mar 19, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> You should know that was your government not religion.


sad but probably true by the way bushy is! i wouldnt doubt it at ALL, the cock sucker! i believe *he is Satan*! 

ohh and i believe in God myself! im Christian but im not very religious. i believe in The higher power, but not the way the bible portrays it. and as far as the old testament goes .... sorry just seems like alot of bullshit. i have never read the bible through and through though myself!

JMHO


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## Cannabolic (Mar 19, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> LoL Thank you guys for proving to me atheists are cocksuckers. Appreciate it


well, not all atheists are cocksuckers. some have never had a religion base. i kno kids who don't believe in god because they were never taught at home. but idk religion is always a touchy subject to talk on because everyone always has strong beliefs, even if they don't believe. oooooh that was a hot saying.

"in religion everyone has strong BELIEFS even if they don't BELIEVE"


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## ace1059 (Mar 19, 2008)

wetarded maybe u should read the bible, ive read it thru many times and every time I learn more and more


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## iblazethatkush (Mar 19, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> ?? i dont know if you being sarcastic but atheist arent *cocksuckers *lol some are tho


True. Just the ones who try to convert you...It's easier to just say tat then argue for an hour with these mofo's. Bottom line is neither side is being converted, so stop trying.


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## iblazethatkush (Mar 19, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> wetarded maybe u should read the bible, ive read it thru many times and every time I learn more and more


True that homie. Preach. I'm gonna guess and say I've read 50% of the bible. I like to skip around I'll read it cover to cover one day tho......I like to get high and read the new testament stories about Jesus.


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## ace1059 (Mar 19, 2008)

haha ya...sometimes i smoke with jesus!!


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## We TaRdED (Mar 19, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> wetarded maybe u should read the bible, ive read it thru many times and every time I learn more and more


how do you feel about the old testament?


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## iblazethatkush (Mar 19, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> how do you feel about the old testament?


You got to remember that a lot of the bible is written in parables. It is not meant to be taken word for word.


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## We TaRdED (Mar 19, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> You got to remember that a lot of the bible is written in parables. It is not meant to be taken word for word.


back b4 there was advanced sciences, people took it as facts!!!! earth was created in seven days, period... that was common belief. but nowadays, yes its good morals!


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## We TaRdED (Mar 19, 2008)

tckfui said:


> skip to five minutes in and watch it for alittle bit, your perspective of jesus will change forever.
> Zeitgeist - The Movie


quote from a different thread. im currently watching the clip myself! i figured i would share. peace


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## ace1059 (Mar 19, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> back b4 there was advanced sciences, people took it as facts!!!! earth was created in seven days, period... that was common belief. but nowadays, yes its good morals!


the creation part wasnt a parable


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## We TaRdED (Mar 19, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> the creation part wasnt a parable


did you watch the movie ace?


EVERYONE WHO IS READING THIS.... PLEASE WATCH THE WHOLE MOVIE... IT IS VERY INFORMATIVE..... TAKE THE TIME AND
WATCH IT!!!!








.


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## ace1059 (Mar 19, 2008)

ya... it was the same old stuff that god dosnt exist and then they present there 'evidence" but no, its not like the whole world is being deceived.

its funny because in the bible it says that people will try and disprove god and many wil be decieved


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## We TaRdED (Mar 19, 2008)

did you watch the whole movie? i believe in God, i just dont know if its the same one from the bible now! 

that movie has changed my life!!!!

im on a mission to enlighten everyone to the reality! WE NEED TO UNITE!


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 19, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> did you watch the whole movie? i believe in God, i just dont know if its the same one from the bible now!
> 
> that movie has changed my life!!!!
> 
> im on a mission to enlighten everyone to the reality! WE NEED TO UNITE!



Thats why stoners should not watch propaganda videos you,ll end up brainwashed thinking the world is against you hahah


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## We TaRdED (Mar 19, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> Thats why stoners should not watch propaganda videos you,ll end up brainwashed thinking the world is against you hahah


i believe everyone should watch that movie! it changed my life! however a person interprets it is totally up to them. God bless S2K66!

watch the movie, spread the word, START A REVOLUTION!!!!!


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 19, 2008)

I watched the stupid movie and i think its a load of bullshit 
Tweeked and twisted by the very people that did them bombs in the 1st place 

None of it is facts just single words or sentences used to miss lead people its a age old war tactic from the begining of time divide and conquer thats why these people what use to think your religion is fake and your goverment killed 1000,s of there own people and crippled them money wise ..

There was a poll saying that people that have a faith have a happier life than a athiest 
I believe this to be true infact theres not many happy athiests i know they always were black and usually hate there parents lol or just look at china or russia just a bunch of lifless zombie soals with nothing to live for .........

Watch a moviie on film hill called what the fuck do we know , 
it might stop u being brainwashed with out forcing no propaganda view of hate against america and other peoples faith


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## We TaRdED (Mar 19, 2008)

I believe in God!!

im sorry it didnt settle with you! i wish the best for you my friend! no need to get worked up  im just compelled to spread this movie after being enlightened! best of luck with all your endevors  happy growing s2k


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 19, 2008)

If you had of done a search 1st the video you want every 1 so see so much has been posted on this site about 10 times with young supermen looking to free the world 

Infact its on every stoners site on the net young paranoide males brainwashed by terrorist propaganda videos trying to free the world ,


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## We TaRdED (Mar 19, 2008)

i love you shoot


Zeitgeist - The Movie

spread the word!!


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## email468 (Mar 19, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> Your the smartest guy in this thread. You should know that was your government not religion.


I seriously doubt I am the smartest guy on this thread but thank you for the kind words. Regarding the idea our government orchestrated the attack and killed thousands of US citizens, I'd recommend you not state that in front of any of the survivors of the victims of that event. i would also ask that you consider not chalking up to malice and intent what can be explained away by incompetence and stupidity - though the results may be the same.

Again, thanks for the compliment though i doubt its sentiment.


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## We TaRdED (Mar 19, 2008)

email468 said:


> Regarding the idea our government orchestrated the attack and killed thousands of US citizens, I'd recommend you not state that in front of any of the survivors of the victims of that event.


dont be modest email, you know your the smartest guy here! 

ya, im not trying to offend anyone! just trying to share a movie that i found very informative! i believe everyone should check it out and draw their own conclusions! 

once again, no offence. 

Zeitgeist - The Movie
spread the word!


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## email468 (Mar 19, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> dont be modest email, you know your the smartest guy here!
> 
> ya, im not trying to offend anyone! just trying to share a movie that i found very informative! i believe everyone should check it out and draw their own conclusions!
> 
> once again, no offence.


I'm personally not offended just giving a friendly warning. I do appreciate your thinking I am the "smartest guy" but I'm not being modest when I say I doubt that is true.

But I'll let you in on my secrets if you too want to appear to be the "smartest guy"...
1 ) Spell check - for clarity more than correctness
2 ) Proof read - see above - if you are understood then bad grammar can take a back seat - but you must be clearly understood first.
3 ) Omit needless words - and use the correct ones. Or as Mark Twain said (paraphrased) - why use a word's second cousin when the right word is available for use?
4 ) when you don't know the answer remain silent or admit you don't know
5 ) when you are guessing or theorizing, make sure it is clear that is what you are doing
6 ) Do not be loose and free with "facts"
7 ) remember that no one has a monopoly on truth
8 ) read, read, read, and when you're tired of reading - read some more. This will improve not only your understanding of the world around you but will improve vocabulary and communication skills.


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## iblazethatkush (Mar 19, 2008)

email468 said:


> I'm personally not offended just giving a friendly warning. I do appreciate your thinking I am the "smartest guy" but I'm not being modest when I say I doubt that is true.
> 
> But I'll let you in on my secrets if you too want to appear to be the "smartest guy"...
> 1 ) Spell check - for clarity more than correctness
> ...


Cool. I'll have to remember this. I'm starting to realize the way you say things is just as important as what you say.


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## iblazethatkush (Mar 19, 2008)

email468 said:


> Regarding the idea our government orchestrated the attack and killed thousands of US citizens, I'd recommend you not state that in front of any of the survivors of the victims of that event.
> 
> True. But, there are quite a large percentage of those who also think it was a false flag attack. Google it and you'll find hundreds of survivors critical of the official explanation.
> 
> ...


True. Either way I blame the government. If it was a small group of pissed-off muslims, which I find hard to believe, I still blame the government for bombing and fucking around in there politics for the last 50 years.


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## iblazethatkush (Mar 19, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> did you watch the whole movie? i believe in God, i just dont know if its the same one from the bible now!
> 
> that movie has changed my life!!!!
> 
> im on a mission to enlighten everyone to the reality! WE NEED TO UNITE!


Hey, that's a good movie, We Tarded. I don't agree with the part about religion. I stopped watching that part as soon as they tried to prove Jesus never existed. There are historical accounts other than the bible of Jesus of Nazareth...The rest of the movie is great, though. Especially, the part about the government....Hey you got 666 posts right when you're starting to question your faith. Scary


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## email468 (Mar 19, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> Cool. I'll have to remember this. I'm starting to realize the way you say things is just as important as what you say.


unfortunately, the way you say things can be judged by the listener/reader as being MORE important that what you are saying.

an extreme example would be saying something like: "how can you believe that? only a moron would think that.. here's is the truth: blah, blah, blah"

vs.

"I don't believe that is accurate. I think that blah, blah, blah."

which of the above do you think a reader/listener would pay closer attention to?

And even worse, if you have a lot of typos or use poor grammar, many folks will think less of you because of it. I don't want to hi-jack a God thread but suffice to say, in a perfect world people would judge you on how well your actions coincided with your speech - but as we know the world is not perfect.

OK - back to our regularly scheduled discussion...


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## We TaRdED (Mar 20, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> Hey you got 666 posts right when you're starting to question your faith. Scary


ya, someone else pointed that out as well....... 

im just a bit confused right now regarding what to believe. it is very ironic though indeed. and it is scary..... a  from me too...

its past though, anyone that gets more than 665 posts has to reach it at some point.


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## email468 (Mar 20, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> ya, someone else pointed that out as well.......
> 
> im just a bit confused right now regarding what to believe. it is very ironic though indeed. and it is scary..... a  from me too...
> 
> its past though, anyone that gets more than 665 posts has to reach it at some point.


I really do feel for you. Losing your faith (or feeling like you are losing your faith) can be very scary indeed - especially if God or Jesus was your best friend.


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## porchmonkey4life (Mar 20, 2008)

Do I believe in God? No, not in a conventional sense. Do I believe in a benevolent, omniscient entity that gives a shit about all the shit I've been through in my life (or anything anyone else has been through for that matter)? No. Absolutely not. I think if God exists, He/She would have stopped giving a shit about people aeons ago.


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## We TaRdED (Mar 20, 2008)

porchmonkey4life said:


> I think if God exists, He/She would have stopped giving a shit about people aeons ago.



lol.........


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## We TaRdED (Mar 20, 2008)

email468 said:


> I really do feel for you. Losing your faith


thanks email.

its hard to be ignorant when you get smacked in the face with facts like that. im not sure if i would rather be ignorant though
i thought there was a profound purpose to this life other than "what is".


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## porchmonkey4life (Mar 20, 2008)

There was a time in my life when I believed there was something out there to "be good" for. Some kind of goal or label I should live up to or aspire to become. I was a vegetarian for 2 years, meditated daily, did yoga, tai chi, chigong, read spiritual/philosophical books, listened to spiritual speakers talk about the books they wrote, only associated with other spiritual/philosophical people. Then life smacked me in the face and told me to wake up and figure things out by actually living my life. I wish that bitch would smack me again, because I've been either hysterical or unconscious for the past 12 months.


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## email468 (Mar 20, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> thanks email.
> 
> its hard to be ignorant when you get smacked in the face with facts like that. im not sure if i would rather be ignorant though
> i thought there was a profound purpose to this life other than "what is".


i have been an atheist a long time now and can tell you there are plenty of ways to find purpose, meaning, awe, wonder, and morality in life without believing in God.

Be sure to understand that doesn't make what I believe right or best.
I'm sorry but there are no answers that are both easy and honest.


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## iblazethatkush (Mar 20, 2008)

Congrats. You guys got somebody to question their faith. Mission accomplished.


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## ace1059 (Mar 20, 2008)

this is how i think of it.." what did i expect..that there wasnt gona be evidence against what i believe? that it would be spotless? no....there are many people that try and disprove my religion and may be close to doing so, but i would want it like that, i know that God would have it like that so he can see (or know) if WE really love him, rather then just give up because we think Hess given up on us, it may look like that but believe me he hasn't, sometimes the best thing to do is stop everything and just listen...now not for like a whispering voice but urges in your mind or things suddenly pop up, that may be God telling you to do something...


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## email468 (Mar 20, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> Congrats. You guys got somebody to question their faith. Mission accomplished.


Mission accomplished indeed. How's your faith btw?

I encourage everyone to question their faith. Believing in something without evidence is not a virtue to me since it leads to ignorance. Believing something in spite of the evidence goes beyond ignorance and into the world of self-righteous delusion.

As I've said many times before, we are free to believe what we want - but believing doesn't make it so. And conversely, my (or anyone) believing something different doesn't make what we believe true either. 

But not believing the evidence, especially in great abundance, is a different thing entirely. Unless you believe that God is all-powerful and able to manipulate the evidence to make it appear He does not exist (or at least not the literal biblical interpretation of Him) - then any argument is a wash so no evidence is convincing. I should add that some folks examine the evidence and are not convinced. Provided they gave the evidence an honest shot, at least they made the effort and I'm guessing their faith is much stronger because of it. So I am not saying that if you examine the evidence you will automatically become a non-believer - but I will warn you that it does get tougher.

Biggest difference I can see with non-believers and literal interpretation believers is non-believers would believe in God with evidence but no evidence can convince the believers that their belief system is even faulty let alone completely wrong. At least this has been my limited experience.

Blind faith, while comforting, can be very dangerous to non-believers (and moderate believers) depending on what the folks who have blind faith believe. I am adding this to my post so you understand why I care what others may or may not believe.


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## iblazethatkush (Mar 20, 2008)

email468 said:


> Mission accomplished indeed. How's your faith btw?
> 
> I encourage everyone to question their faith. Believing in something without evidence is not a virtue to me since it leads to ignorance. Believing something in spite of the evidence goes beyond ignorance and into the world of self-righteous delusion.
> 
> ...


There is evidence, maybe not the concrete evidence it would take to get you to believe. But, I have witnessed much evidence of God's existence. And my faith is strong as ever, thank you for asking


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## iblazethatkush (Mar 20, 2008)

Trying to get people to believe in what you believe (atheism) is pretty gay. You guys are worse than mormons. And you always bitch about them, what's up with that


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## porchmonkey4life (Mar 20, 2008)

Religion causes problems. and confuses people.


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## iblazethatkush (Mar 20, 2008)

porchmonkey4life said:


> Religion causes problems. and confuses people.


Religion yes. I'm talking about a personal belief and relationship with God. The world would be a much better place if everybody had this.


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## We TaRdED (Mar 20, 2008)

email468 said:


> .....God.......He.........Him......God.....



why do you capitalize? i can see why you would capitalize the g in God, but why the h in He & Him? 

sorry for the silly question, but it just seems like an atheist shouldn't worry about it.......


lets not get upset here ppl. we're all friends and hippies here on RIU!


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## We TaRdED (Mar 20, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> The world would be a much better place if everybody had this.


how do you feel about Bush being a "Godly Christian" man? 

someone on here was saying that they would rather vote for bush over a nonchristian president any day.


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## porchmonkey4life (Mar 20, 2008)

I'd vote for a baby-eating, oil-drinking meth dealer befor voting for Bush


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## iblazethatkush (Mar 20, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> how do you feel about Bush being a "Godly Christian" man?
> 
> someone on here was saying that they would rather vote for bush over a nonchristian president any day.


 I'm very disappointed in the level of faith among my stoner brothers. Bush is not a Christian man. He uses his supposed faith to his advantage to gain trust and support from the American people. He does not act like a Christian man to me. Any true Christian should be able to see him for what he is, imo.


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## porchmonkey4life (Mar 20, 2008)

I would have to agree. I don't get along with most of the Christian faith-especially the flaming Christians...but I have know some pretty cool ones, and I would think they would say that Bush cannot honestly call himself a Christian.


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## iblazethatkush (Mar 20, 2008)

A lot of people who call themselves Christians believe in name only. Or they don't study or read so they don't even know what they believe.


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## We TaRdED (Mar 20, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> I'm very disappointed in the level of faith among my stoner brothers.
> 
> Any true Christian should be able to see him for what he is, imo.



aww im sorry, im not trying to disappoint anyone. but its hard for me to be completely ignorant and not have doubts when confronted with blunt facts.

i still believe in a omniscient God, but not the way i have been told about as a kid. im not sure exactly what i believe right now. just look at the Catholic churches.......... look at what they have done, watch the movie again. i was first brought up catholic b4 i became a born again Christian. but when i was catholic, that was the right way to be, every other way was false and "they would not get into heaven."

regarding your second part- lots of people have not seen the real side of bush/government, lets not forget that they control the media and they manipulate minds into thinking whatever they want, for the most part. i was talking to my dad earlier and i was telling him about my recent effulgence with the government and we got into a heated discussion because he was in disbelief and doesnt think the president would commit such atrocities.

thats why we need to spread the links/truth and get every one informed about the wool being pulled over our eyes! b4 its too late.......

sorry for the rant guys.


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## kittybitches (Mar 20, 2008)

i believe that "god" is such a confining word. i think "god" is such an awesome and absolute force that, at his will, pieces this universe together in perfect order. to think he can be personified is a bit misleading. in all the infinite void of space that this small planet inhabits, is it so hard to believe that there are an infinite amount of relationships of all things in it? i believe that there is energy in ALL things in the universe. i think that all religions or spiritual practice inhibit the individual to look within themselves to tap within their own energy and then bring it to be united in harmony with others around. thats they beauty of chronic. it brings people together, promotes sharing, and breaks barriers in the mind as if...........as if it were "god" speaking to you. when you contemplate "god", dont box him into terms. he is infinite. Exodus put it best when Moses asked "god" , "who shall i say sent me", and then god replied, "I AM I AM". so ponder that, im going to go get high. later ya'll.


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## porchmonkey4life (Mar 20, 2008)

God is everything. but most poeple think of god as only good. God is both the creator and the destroyer.


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## ace1059 (Mar 20, 2008)

i would never vote for someone that believes abortion is right, thats why i voted for bush. I just couldnt say ya i voted for the other guy but i still dnt think abortion is right, because i would be a hypocrite.



> A lot of people who call themselves Christians believe in name only. Or they don't study or read so they don't even know what they believe.




its not just christians, i lve in arizona and in my city the dominant religion is MORMONISM...lol alot of them dnt even know who joseph smith is lol


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## We TaRdED (Mar 20, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> i would never vote for someone that believes abortion is right, thats why i voted for bush. I just couldnt say ya i voted for the other guy but i still dnt think abortion is right, because i would be a hypocrite.


did bush do ANYTHING about abortion? still seems the same to me, still legal and being practiced. lets not get hung up on small things that arent going to change. i think abortion will always be legal no matter whos in office. 

think of freshman girls in high school that are stupid and get pregnant. or girls that got bang banged by gang bangers. im not saying its right, i believe a girl should have an obligation to get an abortion b4 a certain duration of pregnancy, like a month maybe. to me, at this age or younger they arent bigger than a golf ball or so(?). plus usually the people that abort are the ones that are most likely not ready to have children and they both might have a bad life.

i could go on, but im not. abortion is bad, will it change, probably not.


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## ace1059 (Mar 20, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> did bush do ANYTHING about abortion? still seems the same to me, still legal and being practiced. lets not get hung up on small things that arent going to change. i think abortion will always be legal no matter whos in office.
> 
> think of freshman girls in high school that are stupid and get pregnant. or girls that got bang banged by gang bangers. im not saying its right, i believe a girl should have an obligation to get an abortion b4 a certain duration of pregnancy, like a month maybe. to me, at this age or younger they arent bigger than a golf ball or so(?). plus usually the people that abort are the ones that are most likely not ready to have children and they both might have a bad life.
> 
> i could go on, but im not. abortion is bad, will it change, probably not.


ok but if i did vote for the other guy it would have been more watever (u know what i mean), but just think of the whole thing. The level of responsiblity is so low! u can have sex without facing the consequences! thats how the mind set is now in our country, plus the MILLIONS OF BABYS aborted will damage our country in the long run....i just think the whole thing is murder and heart less...especially partial birth abortion.....but i dnt wana get off topic to the thread


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## email468 (Mar 20, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> why do you capitalize? i can see why you would capitalize the g in God, but why the h in He & Him?
> 
> sorry for the silly question, but it just seems like an atheist shouldn't worry about it.......
> 
> ...


I capitalize out of respect to people who do believe - though admittedly my capitalization is inconsistent. I don't worry about it personally but I see no reason to be insulting either.


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## email468 (Mar 20, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> aww im sorry, im not trying to disappoint anyone. but its hard for me to be completely ignorant and not have doubts when confronted with blunt facts.
> 
> i still believe in a omniscient God, but not the way i have been told about as a kid. im not sure exactly what i believe right now. just look at the Catholic churches.......... look at what they have done, watch the movie again. i was first brought up catholic b4 i became a born again Christian. but when i was catholic, that was the right way to be, every other way was false and "they would not get into heaven."
> 
> ...


I think that you shouldn't judge God by what his supposed followers say and do. There are many ways to believe and following a single sect of Christianity may not suit you but giving up your faith completely may not be satisfactory either.

There are "Christian" churches that don't even believe in the divinity of Christ! Which would seem to take them out of the running to be a Christian church but i guess their interpretation of the bible does not emphasize Jesus' divinity over His message. Perhaps they got it right. i don't know and no one does. But my point being you don't have to completely reject your faith, you may just need a different flavor.

So if you are being rejected by your fellow believers because your faith has been shaken, then I would at least encourage you to find fellowship that is a little more supportive.

There are many reasons to reject God but doing so because of people who claim they are following His word does not seem like a good reason to me. Keep in mind this is coming from a non-believer.


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## email468 (Mar 20, 2008)

iblazethatkush said:


> Trying to get people to believe in what you believe (atheism) is pretty gay. You guys are worse than mormons. And you always bitch about them, what's up with that


Just offering another route - definitely not trying to sway anyones belief - if i were i'd use a lot more persuasive language and site tons of evidence why many, many parts of the bible can not possibly be true - but i'm not doing that.


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## ace1059 (Mar 20, 2008)

email said it best, the churches ARNT GOD! they (the followers) are not perfect, 

but to email, by reading what u say...u think so differently, i know u dont believe in God because u said u didnt...but from what i see you are very intelligent..how can u NOT see the evidence and love of Jesus? (not material evidence but....i dnt know how to say it but some how i can see and know that Jesus is the son of God) kinda confusing how i say it but i hope u get what i am trying saying


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## email468 (Mar 20, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> email said it best, the churches ARNT GOD! they (the followers) are not perfect,
> 
> but to email, by reading what u say...u think so differently, i know u dont believe in God because u said u didnt...but from what i see you are very intelligent..how can u NOT see the evidence and love of Jesus? (not material evidence but....i dnt know how to say it but some how i can see and know that Jesus is the son of God) kinda confusing how i say it but i hope u get what i am trying saying


I think I understand what you're saying and my honest answer is I don't know. My brain is wired differently? I really don't know.


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## ace1059 (Mar 20, 2008)

as i see in your picture haha..all i know is God has a plan 4 u!..peace


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## We TaRdED (Mar 20, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> as i see in your picture haha.


lololololo^^^^^^^^


wow, now im really confused. i guess its ok to believe in God now, because ppl believe in aliens!!!! ahhhhh YouTube - U.F.O DISCLOSURE PROJECT U.FO MEETING

i mean, how can you believe in aliens but not God? which one is more far fetched? idk


edit- also you can leave your comments here https://www.rollitup.org/toke-n-talk/58762-you-humanoid-alien.html


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## ace1059 (Mar 20, 2008)

haha ya, actually a large number of nasa astronauts have claimed to seeing numerous ufo's while they are in space...so u never know lol....but dnt believe everything u watch on the internet please! lol


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## purpletrainwreck (Mar 20, 2008)

Imaginary friend for adults..
It's evolution....
Some people just have to beleive in something or
need that imaginary something to keep going..


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## Wikidbchofthewst (Mar 21, 2008)

purpletrainwreck said:


> Imaginary friend for adults..
> It's evolution....
> Some people just have to beleive in something or
> need that imaginary something to keep going..


Ok, I've been staying out of all this, because I don't really don't care if people don't believe what I believe.

But I CANNOT STAND when I hear shit like that. When people act as if I believe in God because I'm too weak and I need something to cling to for hope and purpose. 

I'm sorry, but if you ask me, it's way easier to NOT believe in God. It takes a lot more strength and faith to believe in something that you can't see, that you can't have proven to you.

How DARE you act like my belief in God is nothing more than some illogical need to believe in something imaginary? Maybe that's how YOU see God, but it's not how I do.

Yeah, we all have the right to our own opinions, but when YOU express an opinion like THAT, you're just showing that you have no respect for other people's opinions if they don't coincide with your own.


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## Zekedogg (Mar 21, 2008)

Wikidbchofthewst said:


> Ok, I've been staying out of all this, because I don't really don't care if people don't believe what I believe.
> 
> But I CANNOT STAND when I hear shit like that. When people act as if I believe in God because I'm too weak and I need something to cling to for hope and purpose.
> 
> ...


Well said


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## Wikidbchofthewst (Mar 21, 2008)

Zekedogg said:


> Well said


Thank you Zeke!

*takes a deep breath*

lol, sorry, but I get pretty heated when it comes to stuff like that. I know a lot of people with all sorts of different beliefs, and I never judge them or try to convert them to my way of thinking.

But I have come across a lot of people who share purpletrainwreck's opinion. People who will talk down to me for believing in God. One guy acted surprised when I told him I was Catholic, "Oh, I didn't know you were the type of person who needs to believe in some higher power to find meaning in life..." 

Fuck that, and fuck him! You don't have to agree with me, but please, don't fucking patronize me just because I don't believe the same thing as you. But I guess for some people that's all they got. It's much easier to act condescending than to actually WIN the arguement.


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## email468 (Mar 21, 2008)

Wikidbchofthewst said:


> Ok, I've been staying out of all this, because I don't really don't care if people don't believe what I believe.
> 
> But I CANNOT STAND when I hear shit like that. When people act as if I believe in God because I'm too weak and I need something to cling to for hope and purpose.
> 
> ...


I agree that insults and condescending attitudes on ALL sides of the debate do nothing to further understanding. Unfortunately, many folks (again on ALL sides of the debate) have an axe to grind and use the anonymity of the Internet to create some sparks.

More hostility, more misunderstandings, and a larger wall is built between us. Very sad and unnecessary.


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## ace1059 (Mar 21, 2008)

Wikidbchofthewst said:


> I'm sorry, but if you ask me, it's way easier to NOT believe in God. It takes a lot more strength and faith to believe in something that you can't see, that you can't have proven to you.


ya i understand what u are ssaying but how is your life? i see by my whole family (uncles cousins auntes..athiest) that they life isnt "harder" but i see that they struggle BECAUSE of the fact that they have no God in there life.


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## Wikidbchofthewst (Mar 21, 2008)

Well, I meant it's easier to not believe in God when it comes to the arguement over whether or not God exists. In the arguement, it's easier, because you can just sit there and demand proof of God.

But I totally agree, LIFE itself is not easier for lack of belief in God, I couldn't say if it's more of a struggle, cuz I wouldn't know.


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## CannabisAficionado (Mar 22, 2008)

Ok heres the real poll.
YesNoGod.com - Do you believe in God?

I believe in some kind of higher power that created all of us but i dont believe in the christian god or any other religion god. I voted no, speculating that they are referring to the christian god. so make your vote and look at the statistics. 
third world countries have a higher percentage of believers while developed coutries have a higher percentage of non believers, i dont know if it means something, but thats just what i noted.


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## growingmom (Mar 22, 2008)

You all better believe he sent his son to die..die on a cross between 2 petty thieves to save your soul..to save your soul from an eternity of fire..believe it !!!


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## ace1059 (Mar 22, 2008)

CannabisAficionado said:


> Ok heres the real poll.
> YesNoGod.com - Do you believe in God?
> 
> I believe in some kind of higher power that created all of us but i dont believe in the christian god or any other religion god. I voted no, speculating that they are referring to the christian god. so make your vote and look at the statistics.
> third world countries have a higher percentage of believers while developed coutries have a higher percentage of non believers, i dont know if it means something, but thats just what i noted.


i dnt think it is the "christian God" because the middle east is yes at 71 %, its because higher developed people become more spoiled and sorry but more ignorant....at least what i think


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## CannabisAficionado (Mar 22, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> i dnt think it is the "christian God" because the middle east is yes at 71 %, its because higher developed people become more spoiled and sorry but more ignorant....at least what i think


*Oh ok if they are referring to some sort of higher power God or wathever you want to call it, i should have voted yes. as for your answer about the spoiled people of most developed countries, well that doesnt answer much but well, it could be, who knows. What i think is that it is because of freedom , and culture. culture that is passed from one generation to another. like they say, you got to get them young, that is absolutely true, it happened to me and most of us, i was raised as a christian all my life with no questioning or thinking at all, i was just a little kid, when you grow up you have that belief so ingrained in you that it is hard to snap out of it, i see it as some kind of brainwashing even if your parents dont mean it that way when they teach you that stuff , because they were brainwashed as well, when i started using cannabis i started questioning about stuff and started inquiring about everything i tought i knew. i havent discovered anything or claim to know the truth, the only thing that i know now that i didnt know before when i was a sheep led by the pastor. is that like socrates said all i know is i dont know nothing. But just in case jesus is real and the only way, Im prepared and took precautions, maybe they will help or maybe not but worth the shot, hell sounds scary you know. Everynight i pray this to God:*

*Please God, dont send me to hell please, im just not a superstitious person, i just found the bible to hard to believe altough i found things on the bible very logical and good, things that i live by, like Do* unto *others as you would* have them *do* unto *you. but then again socrates also said that and many other religions. I found to hard to believe that more than half of the world is going to hell. I found hard to believe that people who have 5000000000 times more faith than a christian or a catholic, like a palestinian who kills himself for his god is going to hell, well thats what i call faith, if someone should go to heaven it should be suicide bombers, thats what i call faith not that i agree with their actions please dont misinterpret my point. *

*i try to live the best i can, using my reason as much as i can, using the brain that God gave me to judge and question things. Reason is what makes me believe in some sort of higher power God, For me Gods existence is so obvious when i use my reason, i dont need nobody telling me that God is real. reason tells me when i look at my hand: damn someone must have made that, i know i didnt, but that is all that reason can tell me, not absolute answers of what he is or if theres more than one, i dont know anything.*

*Reason tells me that christianity is not truth, but then again, i dont know and theres a possibility, it could be. I dont have access to that information, all i got is reason, not straightforward answers.*

*My view of christianity:*
*believe in jesus without proof, just faith or go to hell and suffer and burn for all eternity. *
*well my reason tells me something is fishy about that. *

*The only good i see about religion is the morals it teaches, but the supersitius part surpasses that, so it does more harm than good.*
*thats all.*


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## email468 (Mar 22, 2008)

growingmom said:


> You all better believe he sent his son to die..die on a cross between 2 petty thieves to save your soul..to save your soul from an eternity of fire..believe it !!!


I have been relatively polite and civil in this discussion about God. But your post is so wicked and mean-spirited I may very well lose my patience.

You believe whatever you want but please keep the hateful speech to yourself.


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## undertheice (Mar 22, 2008)

email468 said:


> I have been relatively polite and civil in this discussion about God. But your post is so wicked and mean-spirited I may very well lose my patience.
> 
> You believe whatever you want but please keep the hateful speech to yourself.


but hate is the basis for religion. though it may be couched in terms of love and forgiveness, there is always a penalty to pay for those who won't toe the line. whether it is the fires of damnation or just being trapped in the uncertainty of this mortal coil, those who don't join the club must be punished for their failure to *obey*.


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## email468 (Mar 22, 2008)

undertheice said:


> but hate is the basis for religion. though it may be couched in terms of love and forgiveness, there is always a penalty to pay for those who won't toe the line. whether it is the fires of damnation or just being trapped in the uncertainty of this mortal coil, those who don't join the club must be punished for their failure to *obey*.


Unfortunately, for many folks your description is accurate. But it doesn't have to be that way. I am hopeful that for every zealot there are 10 moderates that try to focus on the charitable, loving, judge-not side of religion rather than focus on eternal hell-fire and damnation.

Hopefully someday they will throw that tired old book out except for the sermon on the mount (AKA Jesus in a nutshell) and the Song of Solomon (because it is sexy  )

only time will tell i guess...


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## ace1059 (Mar 22, 2008)

to CannabisAficionado

ohhh ok i understand, but what part of the bible can u not accept? the old testament is not only part of the christian religion but the base of Judaism, and parts of muslims (whatever there religion is called..sry).. the new testament is is not only supported with evidence but there are records (like the crucifixion ect) and tons manuscripts, theres more but i dnt want to rag on about it......and one last thing from your last comment you said


> *believe in jesus without proof, just faith or go to hell and suffer and burn for all eternity. *
> *well my reason tells me something is fishy about that. *


 hears what someone told me...


> "Either Jesus is who he said he was, or else he was crazy or else he was a liar."
> In other words, they are saying that Jesus made claims about his powers and about who he was and if those claims were false then he can't be considered just a 'good prophet' as some other religions say he is.


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## ace1059 (Mar 22, 2008)

undertheice said:


> but hate is the basis for religion. though it may be couched in terms of love and forgiveness, there is always a penalty to pay for those who won't toe the line. whether it is the fires of damnation or just being trapped in the uncertainty of this mortal coil, those who don't join the club must be punished for their failure to *obey*.


 but love is the basis of Christianity. elling people they better believe or they will burn in hell is not love. and hell probably isnt even "a big fie pit" in the bible it says its the opposite of God. ....for an eternity.


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## undertheice (Mar 22, 2008)

email468 said:


> Unfortunately, for many folks your description is accurate. But it doesn't have to be that way. I am hopeful that for every zealot there are 10 moderates that try to focus on the charitable, loving, judge-not side of religion rather than focus on eternal hell-fire and damnation.


it's not a matter of the people involved, it is the very essence of religion. it is the believers against the non-believers, the faithful against the pagans, the saved against the damned. religion is designed to bring together only those who will accept some _divine truth_ and to exclude all others. the love lasts only until the last possibility of conversion is exhausted, then the hatred rears its head. hatred masked by concern for the souls of the unenlightened, disgust couched in terms of a _sincere_ desire to lead all of mankind to an understanding of whichever version of god is in favor at the moment and a deep need to see the unbelievers suffer in order to justify the fairy tales of the faithful. religion is that ultimate club and the only requirement to join is that you voluntarily submit to the concept of eternal slavery and resign yourself to the fact that you have no power over your own destiny. believe and there is joy, believe and there is success, resist and there is no hope, resist and your anguish is assured; these are the basic tenets of religion.


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## ace1059 (Mar 22, 2008)

undertheice said:


> it's not a matter of the people involved, it is the very essence of religion. it is the believers against the non-believers, the faithful against the pagans, the saved against the damned. religion is designed to bring together only those who will accept some _divine truth_ and to exclude all others. the love lasts only until the last possibility of conversion is exhausted, then the hatred rears its head. hatred masked by concern for the souls of the unenlightened, disgust couched in terms of a _sincere_ desire to lead all of mankind to an understanding of whichever version of god is in favor at the moment and a deep need to see the unbelievers suffer in order to justify the fairy tales of the faithful. religion is that ultimate club and the only requirement to join is that you voluntarily submit to the concept of eternal slavery and resign yourself to the fact that you have no power over your own destiny. believe and there is joy, believe and there is success, resist and there is no hope, resist and your anguish is assured; these are the basic tenets of religion.


haha im guesing you were a christian but know u are disgusted of it. i disagree with all of that, religion does not stop loving and they don't hate. "eternal slavery"...u say this as being a christian is a bad thing and the religion bounds us in chains.



> My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. - John 15:12-13


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## CannabisAficionado (Mar 22, 2008)

undertheice said:


> it's not a matter of the people involved, it is the very essence of religion. it is the believers against the non-believers, the faithful against the pagans, the saved against the damned. religion is designed to bring together only those who will accept some _divine truth_ and to exclude all others. the love lasts only until the last possibility of conversion is exhausted, then the hatred rears its head. hatred masked by concern for the souls of the unenlightened, disgust couched in terms of a _sincere_ desire to lead all of mankind to an understanding of whichever version of god is in favor at the moment and a deep need to see the unbelievers suffer in order to justify the fairy tales of the faithful. religion is that ultimate club and the only requirement to join is that you voluntarily submit to the concept of eternal slavery and resign yourself to the fact that you have no power over your own destiny. believe and there is joy, believe and there is success, resist and there is no hope, resist and your anguish is assured; these are the basic tenets of religion.


Man, seriously, thanks for that post, you couldnt have explained it better, thats exactly my view of religion specially christianity, the hatred, the hypocrisy, its really bad. they dont realize it but its there.


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## CannabisAficionado (Mar 22, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> to CannabisAficionado
> 
> ohhh ok i understand, but what part of the bible can u not accept? the old testament is not only part of the christian religion but the base of Judaism, and parts of muslims (whatever there religion is called..sry).. the new testament is is not only supported with evidence but there are records (like the crucifixion ect) and tons manuscripts, theres more but i dnt want to rag on about it......and one last thing from your last comment you said
> hears what someone told me...


what i dont understand in the bible. first why is there an old testament and a new: why would god say, ohh no i was wrong, im going to change the laws, i dont like how it works, so now i want to change the laws, i dont want them to be like that anymore, how can a God all powerful and perfect do that, why didnt he make the laws like the laws of the new testament from the beggining. Christianity condemns even judaism, the jews who are gods people according to the bible, jews dont believe jesus is the mesiah, so gods people, the jews are going to hell too according to the new testament.
christianity leaves no choice, why is that christians want you to be miserable if you dont believe what they do just to prove theyre right, which they cant. at least other religions dont try to convert you the way chrisitanity does, making you fear everything and telling you that the world is evil and all that stuff. the world is wonderful, just enjoy, why should we worry for that stuff, why cant we be sincere and accept that we dont know anything and that the only thing we have access to is some books, a tv and a computer. but thats the trick christianity, the faith, thats why christianity hooks you up so easy and wont let go, because it doesnt give you the chance to doubt, if you doubt youre not having faith and that will take you farther from god, you cant leave room for doubt or question, you better believe that it is like that or prepare for hell
I must admit, christianity can make you feel good, thinking you got god behind you back and that eveyone who does not agree with you is screwed, it makes you feel special.


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## undertheice (Mar 22, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> haha i'm guessing you were a christian but now u are disgusted of it.


nope. i was a lifelong agnostic, a seeker if you will. searching for some rhyme or reason to the universe, wondering if there was some *truth* out there. a few years back i made the leap of faith and concluded that the god myth was the stuff of childish fantasy, that an ordered chaos is the closest to truth i would ever find and i shed any delusions i may have had that the goal of the universe was anything other than entropy.

all gods die. as surely as they were born in the minds of men, they will fade and wither and become nothing more than an historical footnote. the power they hold always proves itself to be illusory, the love they claim is always found to have existed long before they came into being and the hatred they engender always overwhelms their positive aspects. better to claim your acts for yourself than to attribute them to fairies and elves.


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## ace1059 (Mar 23, 2008)

CannabisAficionado said:


> what i dont understand in the bible. first why is there an old testament and a new: why would god say, ohh no i was wrong, im going to change the laws, i dont like how it works, so now i want to change the laws, i dont want them to be like that anymore, how can a God all powerful and perfect do that, why didnt he make the laws like the laws of the new testament from the beggining. Christianity condemns even judaism, the jews who are gods people according to the bible, jews dont believe jesus is the mesiah, so gods people, the jews are going to hell too according to the new testament.
> christianity leaves no choice, why is that christians want you to be miserable if you dont believe what they do just to prove theyre right, which they cant. at least other religions dont try to convert you the way chrisitanity does, making you fear everything and telling you that the world is evil and all that stuff. the world is wonderful, just enjoy, why should we worry for that stuff, why cant we be sincere and accept that we dont know anything and that the only thing we have access to is some books, a tv and a computer. but thats the trick christianity, the faith, thats why christianity hooks you up so easy and wont let go, because it doesnt give you the chance to doubt, if you doubt youre not having faith and that will take you farther from god, you cant leave room for doubt or question, you better believe that it is like that or prepare for hell
> I must admit, christianity can make you feel good, thinking you got god behind you back and that eveyone who does not agree with you is screwed, it makes you feel special.


lol im sorry u feel that way....Just because the followers of christianity arnt right and dont do the right thing, doesn't mean the religion is bad. its not like it say in the bible "go annoy some atheist" and other religion DO force there beliefs on others, mormons force there religion on others, even in the schools they do it. Muslims in the middle east KILL christian people because of there religion, so please dont say Christians are the only ones "forcing there religion on people" and makin them the "bad guy"

and to answer your Question on the old testament, because its history. There are many verses in the bible that teach good lessons, especially the psalms.lol the law was changed because he wanted to have a PERSONAL relationship with you, thats why he sent his son to die, when Jesus died it was a sacrafice for all sins, the curtain was ripped in the temple..so know ALL can go to God to talk.. and your wrong i doubt my faith all the time, but its always renewed


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## CannabisAficionado (Mar 23, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> lol im sorry u feel that way....Just because the followers of christianity arnt right and do bad things, doenst mean the religion is bad. its not like it say in the bible "go annoy some atheist" and other religion DO force thees on others, mormons force there religion on others, even in the schools they do it. Muslims in the middle east KILL christian people because of there religion, sodt say Christians are the only ones "forcing there religion on people"
> 
> and to answer your Question on the old testament, because its history. There are many verses in the bible that teach good lessons, especially the psalms.lol the law was changed because he wanted to have a PERSONAL relationship with you, thats why he sent his son to die, when Jesus died it was a sacrafice for all sins, the curtain was ripped in the temple..so know ALL can go to God to talk.. and your wrong i doubt my faith all the time, but its always renewed


yeah your first point is right, its not christianity, it is all religions that do that.
you say it doesnt say in the bible to force your religion unto others, but in fact thats exactly what it says, not with those words, but they tell you to become fisher of men and bring as many people to the church, its just like an affiliate program, the more fish you bring the closer you are to god lol, thats why the church is such a good business, that verse in the bible about being fisher of men or should i say affiliate program lol, just kidding. and i agree about the lessons you say, i think that the bible and specially what jesus said in the bible is absolutely beautiful, like i said i like the morals it teaches and all of that, but if you study buddhism or any other religion you can find the same stuff and the same kind of message. I know youre probably not the kind of christian im referring to most of the time, you wouldnt be in this forum in the first place. but the only thing we are going to ever agree on, is the fact that theres a higher power that created us all, call it God or creator or whatever. The difference between your side and my side is that im open to the possibility that youre right and that i could be wrong. christianity wont allow that for you. It is your duty to convince me that youre right, you are to become a fisher of men, if you suceed you will be closer to god and he will be in your favor. As for me what do i get if i convince you of my point of view, well i dont get nothing, im not even offering answers, maybe youre just better with believing what you believe feeling secure and special with god in your favor. im just telling you why i think christianity is bad, i dont represent a group of people or any religion and i dont claim to have god behing my back, only my own personal opinion.

And what do you mean because its history. oh so he wanted to have a personal relationship with us, so he said ok, im going to say that everyone is damned and that they need to be saved, then ill send my son to die in a horribly way to save the, just to show them that i love them, and they will love me because i saved them, but i was the one that condemned them all in the first place, but dont tell. come on God has to be somethin more complex than that, why would something so extraordinary do someting like that, for me, watching this world is something that tells me that God is something too big to fit in my mere human understanding, so i wont even bother trying to understand. i cant understand calculus, how can i expect to understand God. the bible explains everything in a very touching way, i just dont buy it, i dont think is that simple, so simple like god whispering on johns ear while he writes a part of the bible. whats the difference between that and santa bringing my toys lol.


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## ace1059 (Mar 23, 2008)

but thats the thing, God would do something like send his son (Jesus) to die just for you.!!...thats why it was the ultimate gift...and why he did it? like a said to have a personal relationship with his creation,,,and because hes God, he can do watever he wants lol



> if you suceed you will be closer to god and he will be in your favor


thats not true, God didnt say that

i mean by history that its actually history... the old testiment was written by abraham and some others but i forgot the names.thats why its in there. Some peple found the scrolls andput them in the bible...its not like God had a perfect order he wanted them to be in.


one last thing..i was laying in bed thinking and i was thinking if God didnt exist and if NOTHING was ever created, like nothing existed ...and i got this really weird feeling.. and it was like i could barely think of it ...like i had to focus really hard...it was really weird...just thought i would share that and if anyone else has thought of that


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## ace1059 (Mar 23, 2008)

oh and God bless u all! ...its easter! (he rose today from the dead..jesus)


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## iblazethatkush (Mar 23, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> oh and God bless u all! ...its easter! (he rose today from the dead..jesus)


God bless u too, Ace. And Happy Easter. I haven't been to a service in over a year. I think I'm gonna go today later


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## ace1059 (Mar 23, 2008)

haha ok i was at church today and the little band they have were playing there music and one of the speakers blew out...it was really loud lol


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## grapefruit (Jul 18, 2008)

God IS NOT a list of rules, or types of prayers or a building or dead worthless traditions that you need to practice or dressing a certain way..GOD IS NOT RELIGION!!!! JESUS did not come to die for a religion to be made...he came that we might recieve the HOLY SPIRIT so that we could be in a RELATIONSHIP with HIM! a living, day to day, real relationship. God is creative, never doing anything the same way twice. God does Not want a bunch of clones following him. he wants people to be who they were truely meant to be...themselves!!


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## 1puff2puff3puff (Jul 19, 2008)

grapefruit said:


> God IS NOT a list of rules, or types of prayers or a building or dead worthless traditions that you need to practice or dressing a certain way..GOD IS NOT RELIGION!!!! JESUS did not come to die for a religion to be made...he came that we might recieve the HOLY SPIRIT so that we could be in a RELATIONSHIP with HIM! a living, day to day, real relationship. God is creative, never doing anything the same way twice. God does Not want a bunch of clones following him. he wants people to be who they were truely meant to be...themselves!!


 
*BEAUTIFULLY STATED!!!!! *


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