# SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)



## Humanrob (Apr 2, 2016)

*Sub-irrigated planter*
_From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia_


Sub-Irrigated Planter
*Sub-irrigated planter* (SIP) is a generic name for a special type of planting box used in container gardening and commercial landscaping. A SIP is any method of watering plants where the water is introduced from the bottom, allowing the water to soak upwards to the plant through capillary action.[1] It is possible to automate the watering and thus SIPs are popular with professional landscapers in buildings or urban settings. SIPs are available as products, under brand names such as Planter Technology[2] (commercial) and EarthBox[3] (consumer), Ollie Plant Sipper[4](consumer), The Refuge Garden (www.urbanrefugegardening.com) (consumer/commercial) or as do-it-yourselfprojects made from plastic buckets and boxes.[5]



Would love to hear about your experiments, projects, failures and successes.


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## dubekoms (Apr 2, 2016)

I was thinking of purchasing a earthbox myself, a sub irrigated planter. I just don't know how well it would do with organics. I brew a lot of aacts and use shit like fish hydrolysate. I don't think that would go over well sitting at the bottom for more then a day. I guess if you had some really nice soil and used only plain water it would do very well.


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## Humanrob (Apr 2, 2016)

I'm doing a couple right now. One is based on a 14 gallon Rubbermaid container inside of an 18 gallon. The other is tall narrow #7 pot mated to a 5 gallon bucket. Both still need to have their drain holes drilled -- btw, how much (in inches) of an air space should I leave between the water line and the bottom of the soil container?


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## Humanrob (Apr 2, 2016)

dubekoms said:


> I was thinking of purchasing a earthbox myself, a sub irrigated planter. I just don't know how well it would do with organics. I brew a lot of aacts and use shit like fish hydrolysate. I don't think that would go over well sitting at the bottom for more then a day. I guess if you had some really nice soil and used only plain water it would do very well.


Being that I'm still in the process of building mine, I have no first hand experience yet, but I've been reading as much as I can on them. Hopefully @hyroot will join in, I believe he uses an organic soil mix in his. There are a lot of people experimenting with them, I've read bits here and there on different threads and journals, maybe we can focus the information here. 

I know @Tim Fox just ordered an Earthbox, but I think he's going to grow some tomatoes outside with it this summer, and do an indoor grow with it next fall or winter. Tim pointed me to some great online resources, like the instructions in the attached file from http://earthtainer.tomatofest.com/  I based a lot of my bin design on their instructions, but instead of using two 18 gallon and cutting one up, I used one 14 and one 18. I will definitely use their water level indicator design though.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 2, 2016)

dubekoms said:


> I was thinking of purchasing a earthbox myself, a sub irrigated planter. I just don't know how well it would do with organics. I brew a lot of aacts and use shit like fish hydrolysate. I don't think that would go over well sitting at the bottom for more then a day. I guess if you had some really nice soil and used only plain water it would do very well.


Yea man ,I just ordered a earth box, it's going to fit my grow box really well, I will put some pictures up when it gets here, @Humanrob those diy sips look really good, maybe hyroot can shed some light on your wick choice, of there is enough slots?, 
Everything I have read said one inch air gap


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## Humanrob (Apr 2, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> Yea man ,I just ordered a earth box, it's going to fit my grow box really well, I will put some pictures up when it gets here, @Humanrob those diy sips look really good, maybe hyroot can shed some light on your wick choice, of there is enough slots?,
> Everything I have read said one inch air gap


Thanks, couldn't remember the gap. My previous design had too much air, this one might have too little, but that's easy to change.


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## dubekoms (Apr 2, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> Yea man ,I just ordered a earth box, it's going to fit my grow box really well, I will put some pictures up when it gets here, @Humanrob those diy sips look really good, maybe hyroot can shed some light on your wick choice, of there is enough slots?,
> Everything I have read said one inch air gap


I'll definitely keep an eye on that. I was thinking maybe you could top feed with compost teas, just making sure not to go overboard so it doesn't reach the resivoir at the bottom. Its also perfect size for my area and I think holds nearly 2cft of soil? I might run 2 plants in it.


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## hyroot (Apr 2, 2016)

No teas. Just add ewc and compost and malted seeds (instead of sst) to the soil and you're fine. The only need for compost teas ever is if the soil gets dried out and the microbes die off.


Mine

18 gal and 5 gals. Gorilla glue 4 and quantum kush





Kona sunset f2



Guard dawg f3


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## Tim Fox (Apr 3, 2016)

dubekoms said:


> I'll definitely keep an eye on that. I was thinking maybe you could top feed with compost teas, just making sure not to go overboard so it doesn't reach the resivoir at the bottom. Its also perfect size for my area and I think holds nearly 2cft of soil? I might run 2 plants in it.


Yes , the earthbox holds exactly 1 bag of soil product, 2 cubic feet, or around 17 gallons, Chose some type of living soil, I know in the octopots they ad nutes right to the res, I am going run Water only the whole ride in my earthbox,,, my last grow was water only the whole ride in 3 gallon containers with FFOF


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## Tim Fox (Apr 3, 2016)

hyroot said:


> No teas. Just add ewc and compost and malted seeds (instead of sst) to the soil and you're fine. The only need for compost teas ever is if the soil gets dried out and the microbes die off.
> 
> 
> Mine
> ...


@hyroot what is "ewc" and what is "sst" thank you


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## dubekoms (Apr 3, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> @hyroot what is "ewc" and what is "sst" thank you


I believe ewc=earth worm casting's and SST= seed sprouted tea. I'm a lazy bastard so I purchase living soil from https://www.makeorganicsoil.com/collections/organic-soils/products/soil-makers-living-organic-potting-blend?variant=1138894953 atleast until I have enough to re amend, and I need to get a worm farm started to!


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## hyroot (Apr 3, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> @hyroot what is "ewc" and what is "sst" thank you



Ewc - worm castings 

SST - seeds sprout tea

Jeremy Silva (build a soil) said the earth box really holds about 1 cubic feet. And 3 gallons of water

Here's his videos on the earth box

http://buildasoil.com/blogs/news


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## Humanrob (Apr 3, 2016)

hyroot said:


> Jeremy Silva (build a soil) said the earth box really holds about 1 cubic feet. And 3 gallons of water
> 
> Here's his videos on the earth box
> 
> http://buildasoil.com/blogs/news


Hey hyroot, that video is from 9/15 and I did not see any follow-ups -- do you know if he posted more videos throughout the grow?


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## hyroot (Apr 3, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> Hey hyroot, that video is from 9/15 and I did not see any follow-ups -- do you know if he posted more videos throughout the grow?



That's all I can find.


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## Humanrob (Apr 3, 2016)

hyroot said:


> That's all I can find.


I guess we'll have to wait for @Tim Fox to do his run to find out how the box rocks.


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## hyroot (Apr 3, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> I guess we'll have to wait for @Tim Fox to do his run to find out how the box rocks.



He posted some pics a ways back in the probiotic farmers alliance group on facebook he had big buds and I think 2 plants in there. He had 3 but one hermed so he pulled it.


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## Humanrob (Apr 3, 2016)

Today I did the second one, and tried a different method for the wick -- three small ones instead of one big one. It'll be interesting to see how they work.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 3, 2016)

more earthbox from buildasoil on vimeo


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## Tim Fox (Apr 3, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> more earthbox from buildasoil on vimeo


lol, I laughed in the video when he said at 13:50,, it works like using an airstone ,,so why go thru the cost and trouble of appling anerobics?,, So i chuckled and said,, then why not just use the air pump, save the trouble, save the money, ya


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## Humanrob (Apr 3, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> lol, I laughed in the video when he said at 13:50,, it works like using an airstone ,,so why go thru the cost and trouble of appling anerobics?,, So i chuckled and said,, then why not just use the air pump, save the trouble, save the money, ya


Go 15:45 in (+/-) and you'll also hear him advise to let the res get completely dry between fillings. So apparently these can be used simply as an alternative method of watering, without any hydro-hybrid pretensions. I plan to keep my wicks moist, but that's just me.

Edit: but it is an interesting video, and it is good to know that if for some reason it runs dry, its not the end of the world.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 3, 2016)

I am with you, do not let the res run dry, maybe that's why he doesn't have more videos of his sips?, Idid find more and newer videos from him on vimeo, and he was growing in largelarge fabric pots


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## Tim Fox (Apr 3, 2016)

holy cow


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## Humanrob (Apr 3, 2016)

That's pretty cool. I'd love to do a time lapse video of my outdoor grow. Or my indoor, for that matter.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 4, 2016)

Air injecting Sips,,, Yup it works, I am going to order a Fusion fish tank pump for 8 bucks delered on Ebay to go with my earthbox


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## Tim Fox (Apr 4, 2016)

I read some reviews on air pumps for fish tanks and this one is small for SIPS and scored really well on how quiet it is,, kinda need that for my stealth box http://www.ebay.com/itm/JW-Pet-Fusion-Quiet-Power-Air-Pump-200-up-to-20-gal-Aquarium-/252266506657?hash=item3abc4169a1:g:IqEAAOSwYHxWLl3h


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## Humanrob (Apr 4, 2016)

I wonder if there are limitations to the practical distance water can wick? I've been playing around with some designs, and I figured out a way to make a sip pot with a pot sitting on top of a 3.5 or 5 gallon bucket, and the wick extends down to the bottom of the bucket. The advantage is that the bucket can be filled to within an inch of its capacity, which would allow for less frequent watering... if the water can wick that distance. 

My intention would be to use these in my outdoor, and dig a hole and drop the bucket in up to the overflow hole to keep the water cool and out of the sun. If it works, it would allow me to go away this summer for at least 3-5 days at a time, I would imagine. So far I have a five gallon pot over a 3.5 gallon bucket, and a 10 gallon pot over a 5 gallon bucket. 

Most of the designs I've seen mass produced have low wide reservoirs, but I don't know if that's for practical reasons (like less likely to tip over, and for indoor uses less height restrictions), or if there are physics issues with the distance water will wick?


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## hyroot (Apr 5, 2016)

Have you thought of building a large soil bed sip or using kiddie pools to make sips. 

For root growth. Wider is better. Roots grow out sideways more than downwards.


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## Humanrob (Apr 5, 2016)

hyroot said:


> Have you thought of building a large soil bed sip or using kiddie pools to make sips.
> 
> For root growth. Wider is better. Roots grow out sideways more than downwards.


The kiddie pool idea is interesting, but I'm not ready to work at that scale yet, I still haven't even experienced the success of a small sip. The root directional growth is a good point, a tall narrow res might not work as well with the plants natural tendencies. 

I think I might have to just try this and see how it goes. This summer it might not be with cannabis though, looks like I'm already set to grow my limit, might be with veggies.


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## Humanrob (Apr 7, 2016)

I went ahead and started the ones I discussed before, using cloth pots sitting on top of the res that will allow the res to be fill almost all the way. I suppose this is a long term test, since I won't be ready to drop these into the ground with plants in them for about 6 more weeks... and then the subsequent weeks and months (through harvest) will tell the whole story. 

In case its not obvious, the all black one is the 5 gallon pot over a 3 gallon bucket, and the orange HD bucket is the 10 gallon pot over a 5 gallon bucket.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 7, 2016)

I am excited to watch this test,
my earth box is scheduled to arrive tomorrow evening,, kinda excited


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## bicit (Apr 7, 2016)

@hyroot 

What is your thoughts on comparing blumats in fabric pots compared too the SIP method? Both seem to be aimed at automating watering via different methods.

Assuming rols and water are the only things being used.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 9, 2016)

here is a couple of pictures of my earthbox sip ,, arrived yesterday , gosh it fits in my grow cab so well, perfect size and height, leaves me all the same grow space i had before, but now using sip ,, sweet


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## Tim Fox (Apr 13, 2016)

I found another commercially made SIP , they sale them at home depot for only 20 bucks 
http://www.homedepot.com/p/CITY-PICKERS-24-5-in-x-20-5-in-Patio-Raised-Garden-Bed-Kit-with-Watering-System-and-Casters-in-Terra-Cotta-2340D/202563845


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## Tim Fox (Apr 13, 2016)

Wish I would have seen this SIP first,, it has a 4 gallon res, and is about the same size as the earth box and is 5 dollars cheaper
http://www.agardenpatch.com/


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## Humanrob (Apr 13, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> I found another commercially made SIP , they sale them at home depot for only 20 bucks
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/CITY-PICKERS-24-5-in-x-20-5-in-Patio-Raised-Garden-Bed-Kit-with-Watering-System-and-Casters-in-Terra-Cotta-2340D/202563845


Looks very similar the Earthbox, which implies that no one has applied for a patent on these things. Competition is good, $20 seems like a great deal (I'm sure I've spent more than that on parts making mine). According to the HD website, my local store has 18 in stock, next time I'm there I'll have to check them out.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 13, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> Looks very similar the Earthbox, which implies that no one has applied for a patent on these things. Competition is good, $20 seems like a great deal (I'm sure I've spent more than that on parts making mine). According to the HD website, my local store has 18 in stock, next time I'm there I'll have to check them out.


let me know what you find out when you see them at home depot, gosh for 20 bucks I may plant more vegies in the back yard,


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## Humanrob (Apr 13, 2016)

One nice thing about this design is that it looks like you can see into the res so that you can know when its full without actually having water run out -- nice when its indoors. I went with a system using a tube to show res water height.


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## Humanrob (Apr 13, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> let me know what you find out when you see them at home depot, gosh for 20 bucks I may plant more vegies in the back yard,


Will do


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## Tim Fox (Apr 13, 2016)

this one has a 4 gallon res, shoot I would have bought this one just for the xtra gallon of water,, too late now, hahaha


Tim Fox said:


> Wish I would have seen this SIP first,, it has a 4 gallon res, and is about the same size as the earth box and is 5 dollars cheaper
> http://www.agardenpatch.com/


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## SomeGuy (Apr 13, 2016)

Hey Rob. My sips are rocking. I'm doing something very similar. 5gl smartpots on a 5gl bucket. The 27gl tubs w the 10gl and two 5gl have roots in the rez and.they are white. Fabric pots are staying perfectly watered as far as I can tell.


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## Humanrob (Apr 13, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Hey Rob. My sips are rocking. I'm doing something very similar. 5gl smartpots on a 5gl bucket. The 27gl tubs w the 10gl and two 5gl have roots in the rez and.they are white. Fabric pots are staying perfectly watered as far as I can tell.
> View attachment 3656102


They look great! Thanks for the update!

My versions that have cloth pots are for my outdoor, because of height restrictions in my tent. The short one (3.5 gal buckets) are about 21" to the soil line. My Rubbermaid bin versions are 15-17" depending on how high I fill them. If I plan better, I can probably use either next time, but this run is going to be shoe-horned in. 

In about a week I'll be harvesting these
 
And replacing them with these
 
My current scrog is about 30" off the deck, the soil line will be 16" and the girls going in are already about 20" tall... so they will be pushed under the scrog right away. I'm going to do a two-tier scrog this time, so the first will flatten them and the second will support buds. I'm going to be pushing my luck in terms of vertical space... but that's the plan so far.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 13, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Hey Rob. My sips are rocking. I'm doing something very similar. 5gl smartpots on a 5gl bucket. The 27gl tubs w the 10gl and two 5gl have roots in the rez and.they are white. Fabric pots are staying perfectly watered as far as I can tell.
> View attachment 3656102


are those air stone lines going into the fill tubes?


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## Tim Fox (Apr 13, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> They look great! Thanks for the update!
> 
> My versions that have cloth pots are for my outdoor, because of height restrictions in my tent. The short one (3.5 gal buckets) are about 21" to the soil line. My Rubbermaid bin versions are 15-17" depending on how high I fill them. If I plan better, I can probably use either next time, but this run is going to be shoe-horned in.
> 
> ...


your teens look great rob, and check out those leaf,, your plants are going to love being in a sip and geting the right amount of water at all times,, i love that part of sips


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## Humanrob (Apr 13, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> your teens look great rob, and check out those leaf,, your plants are going to love being in a sip and geting the right amount of water at all times,, i love that part of sips


Thanks! They are pretty big for their pots so they are probably getting a bit root bound, which makes keeping them optimally watered more difficult. I will very carefully spread their roots when I transplant them into the sips, and I think they'll find the res in a matter of days. It'll be kudzu after that.


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## SomeGuy (Apr 13, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> are those air stone lines going into the fill tubes?


Yup. 1 medium stone per tub. Each tub was down about 9gl over two weeks or so. The haircuts and tying down to the screen took longer than filling the tubs. Lol

FYI. My screen is 31" off the deck. And I left the posts tall so I could stretch a trellis for a second layer of support later. I plan to end up maybe a foot or so from the lights w the canopy.


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## Humanrob (Apr 13, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Yup. 1 medium stone per tub. Each tub was down about 9gl over two weeks or so. The haircuts and tying down to the screen took longer than filling the tubs. Lol
> 
> FYI. My screen is 31" off the deck. And I left the posts tall so I could stretch a trellis for a second layer of support later. I plan to end up maybe a foot or so from the lights w the canopy.


How many gallons do they each hold? I did a leak test on my water level indicator, and when I dumped the water it filled a 5 gallon bucket, so that's about the capacity of mine.

I wasn't originally planning on topping mine any more, but I might have to take clones, so they may get a trimming after all.


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## SomeGuy (Apr 13, 2016)

They are 27gl tubs w about 18-20 gl in them I leave a little more gap at the top than in the other sips. My wicks are long and having zero watering issues. I still plan to top feed a quart or two of tea per plant several times through flower. 

Interesting note. I grew hydro for years. I'm seeing hydro type growth and the stems where trimmed will pop crazy vegetation. Definitely a bit of soil/Dwc hybrid thing going on I. These large octopots.



Humanrob said:


> How many gallons do they each hold? I did a leak test on my water level indicator, and when I dumped the water it filled a 5 gallon bucket, so that's about the capacity of mine.
> 
> I wasn't originally planning on topping mine any more, but I might have to take clones, so they may get a trimming after all.


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## Humanrob (Apr 13, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> They are 27gl tubs w about 18-20 gl in them I leave a little more gap at the top than in the other sips. My wicks are long and having zero watering issues. I still plan to top feed a quart or two of tea per plant several times through flower.
> 
> Interesting note. I grew hydro for years. I'm seeing hydro type growth and the stems where trimmed will pop crazy vegetation. Definitely a bit of soil/Dwc hybrid thing going on I. These large octopots.


Excellent information! I was worried that 5 gallons might be a lot of water, lol. These first ones are in Rubbermaid bins, so I don't think they'll be as much evaporative water loss. I haven't decided yet whether or not I'll cover them. I might during flower just to try and contain the humidity in the tent. 

I only topped mine once for a couple of reasons, mostly because they are stressed from a long veg in a somewhat small pot, and not enough humidity in their environment -- so I couldn't bring myself to take any growth off. I should probably get over it and top them again, it would allow me to veg them for a couple of weeks in the sip so they can establish full root structure before I flip to flower. 

What did you use for wicks?


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## SomeGuy (Apr 13, 2016)

Here ya go. Netpots. They cut easy and connect easy w zip ties. I don't line them just fill w wick material. (Coco, peet). This is my 5gl bucket. Will have water 5-6" from top when full.


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## Humanrob (Apr 13, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Here ya go. Netpots. They cut easy and connect easy w zip ties. I don't line them just fill w wick material. (Coco, peet). This is my 5gl bucket. Will have water 5-6" from top when full.
> View attachment 3656133 View attachment 3656134


Very Cool!

I am very interested to see how this works over time. Lots of great experiments going on. I'm seeing a lot of variation on how perforated different people's wicks are, so hopefully everyone (you, and @hyroot so far) will keep us up to date on what's working and what's not. 

I've never done hydro so I don't know anything about "water roots", but I imagine that they should not be allowed to dry out? If that's the case, then at least initially I should keep the res pretty full to allow them to grow deep into it so that as the water subsequently rises and falls the roots are never completely exposed? Just guessing...

I'm hoping that once it gets going the top couple of inches of soil will dry out, and that keeps the gnats at bay. I've had a hell of a time eliminating them this run and I'd love it if they became a thing of the past. My intention at the outset is not to water from the top at all, if possible. I suppose if I have to add nutes during flower, I might, but I've been thinking about putting in tubes that go a couple of inches into the soil, and feeding the soil through those to avoid wetting the top... but I haven't fully thought that out. In the end I'll do whatever is necessary, plans are only ideas that seemed good at the time.


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## SomeGuy (Apr 13, 2016)

Oh yes. The tops will dry. About 3/4 of the pot will stay slightly moist. The gnats are getting beaten away through a number of offensives. Lol


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## Lucky Luke (Apr 17, 2016)

Ive used something like this http://greensmartliving.com.au/water/greensmart-pots/ before in an out door garden grow.

Plants got big for the size of the pots due to not having to have a huge root ball. I didnt use an airstone and if using outside would be more trouble than its worth. (there is an air layer between the water and roots anyway, although the tap root/s do end up in the reserviur with no ill effects). Was done in Sydney Australia. So decent heat temps with no problems.
I just watered with water but did use time release fertilizer capsules in the soil.


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## Humanrob (Apr 17, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> Ive used something like this http://greensmartliving.com.au/water/greensmart-pots/ before in an out door garden grow.
> 
> Plants got big for the size of the pots due to not having to have a huge root ball. I didnt use an airstone and if using outside would be more trouble than its worth. (there is an air layer between the water and roots anyway). Was done in Sydney Australia. So decent heat temps with no problems.
> I just watered with water but did use time release fertilizer capsules in the soil.


That's an interesting design for a fill spout that is also a water level indicator. There's always room to improve on these, that's a nice upgrade. 

I've seen plenty of adds and videos for growing veggies in these outside, it's good to hear that cannabis likes the system too.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 18, 2016)

Lucky Luke said:


> Ive used something like this http://greensmartliving.com.au/water/greensmart-pots/ before in an out door garden grow.
> 
> Plants got big for the size of the pots due to not having to have a huge root ball. I didnt use an airstone and if using outside would be more trouble than its worth. (there is an air layer between the water and roots anyway, although the tap root/s do end up in the reserviur with no ill effects). Was done in Sydney Australia. So decent heat temps with no problems.
> I just watered with water but did use time release fertilizer capsules in the soil.


looks very much like an earthbox


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## Tim Fox (Apr 24, 2016)

Hey, how are those plants doing in the new SIP?


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## Humanrob (Apr 24, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> Hey, how are those plants doing in the new SIP?


Too soon to tell. It was only three days ago that I transplanted clones that had been vegging for almost 6 weeks. They are doing very well overall, but they were moved from 2 gallon root bound pots into about 10 gallons of fresh water-drenched soil mix, so they are revived and full of new growth just from the soil upgrade. 

The res level has not changed yet, so the water from the initial drenching has not been used by the plants and/or evaporated enough to start wicking water up, but that's not surprising (I don't think?). So, no news yet. I suspect in a week or three things will begin to happen.


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 25, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> One nice thing about this design is that it looks like you can see into the res so that you can know when its full without actually having water run out -- nice when its indoors. I went with a system using a tube to show res water height.
> 
> View attachment 3656101


I Was thinking of using the bucket from my root spa setup as the outside/bottom SIP bucket for this reason, then I can mark the water line like I did for DWC and it makes life easier on filling and what not.

My confusion is this..... I see a lot of SIP's like @hyroot and it doesn't look like a second 5 gal is on the top, so what is being used? The lower profile of his setup interest me because right now in the current tent height is not unlimited......

Edit: I found Hyroot's explanation of his bucket in another thread! 

Thanks


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## hyroot (Apr 25, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> Too soon to tell. It was only three days ago that I transplanted clones that had been vegging for almost 6 weeks. They are doing very well overall, but they were moved from 2 gallon root bound pots into about 10 gallons of fresh water-drenched soil mix, so they are revived and full of new growth just from the soil upgrade.
> 
> The res level has not changed yet, so the water from the initial drenching has not been used by the plants and/or evaporated enough to start wicking water up, but that's not surprising (I don't think?). So, no news yet. I suspect in a week or three things will begin to happen.



Mine, once big they're drinking a gallon every 2 -3 days on veg and flower. I had one 5 gal.in flower get dried out. ..... I fucked up. I'm adding a gallon to each sip every 2-3 days now.

New transplants take a little over a week to drink a gallon of water. Once the roots are in the resi. They drink a whole lot more and faster. But they grow huge at a faster rate too.

I think I'd rather have larger resi's. I'm going to try 5 gal fabric pots on top of home depot buckets n lids. With a longer wicking pot.


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 25, 2016)

How high do you fill the water line up to in the "res"?

Also guys, if using R/O water do we add cal mag like in DWC?


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## Humanrob (Apr 25, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> I Was thinking of using the bucket from my root spa setup as the outside/bottom SIP bucket for this reason, then I can mark the water line like I did for DWC and it makes life easier on filling and what not.
> 
> My confusion is this..... I see a lot of SIP's like @hyroot and it doesn't look like a second 5 gal is on the top, so what is being used? The lower profile of his setup interest me because right now in the current tent height is not unlimited......
> 
> ...


You need to leave about an inch of air space between the bottom of the top bucket, and the top of the water line. @hyroot is using a 5 gallon plastic plant bucket as his soil pot part, I believe because its shorter than the 5 gallon outer bucket and allows for a larger res. The method that you have in the picture would not leave you with much of a res, and I imagine that you'd be refilling it frequently to keep it from drying out. 

One thing to do is grab a "homer" bucket at Home Depot, and then walk it over to their garden department and look for 5 gallon pots that fit in but don't slide all the way down. That's what I did for a couple that will be part of my outdoor this summer.


----------



## Humanrob (Apr 25, 2016)

hyroot said:


> Mine, once big they're drinking a gallon every 2 -3 days on veg and flower. I had one 5 gal.in flower get dried out. ..... I fucked up. I'm adding a gallon to each sip every 2-3 days now.
> 
> New transplants take a little over a week to drink a gallon of water. Once the roots are in the resi. They drink a whole lot more and faster. But they grow huge at a faster rate too.
> 
> I think I'd rather have larger resi's. I'm going to try 5 gal fabric pots on top of home depot buckets n lids. With a longer wicking pot.


I am in the midst of a few experiments with those, with both 5 and 3 gallon buckets (the 3's fit better in my tent height-wise). As far as wicks go, I've played with several things, ranging from very small airpots that overlap to 2" pvc. I've used the latter a lot, and not for any good reason.... honestly, its because I have a 2" hole-saw that makes cutting holes for the wick through lids and trays very clean and easy. I'm not really sure if its wide enough, but sometimes I use several of them (like in my big bin in the indoor). 

Quick shots of a 10 gallon cloth pot over a 5 gallon bucket, and a 5 gallon cloth pot over a 3 gallon bucket. The 10/5 is too tall for my indoor, but will definitely be used outside this summer. I'll burry it up to the overflow hole to keep the water underground and extra cool in the summer heat, I bet the plants will love that.


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 25, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> You need to leave about an inch of air space between the bottom of the top bucket, and the top of the water line. @hyroot is using a 5 gallon plastic plant bucket as his soil pot part, I believe because its shorter than the 5 gallon outer bucket and allows for a larger res. The method that you have in the picture would not leave you with much of a res, and I imagine that you'd be refilling it frequently to keep it from drying out.
> 
> One thing to do is grab a "homer" bucket at Home Depot, and then walk it over to their garden department and look for 5 gallon pots that fit in but don't slide all the way down. That's what I did for a couple that will be part of my outdoor this summer.
> 
> View attachment 3665535


I am going to give my two 5 gal a try first because I have them on hand already. I also have 5 gal nursery pots, but mine are the shorter fatter ones and barely slide into the 5 gal bucket at all, would be too much res I would think.........


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## Humanrob (Apr 25, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> I am going to give my two 5 gal a try first because I have them on hand already. I also have 5 gal nursery pots, but mine are the shorter fatter ones and barely slide into the 5 gal bucket at all, would be too much res I would think.........


Most of the people here who are experimenting with these seem to be moving towards larger res's. I thought my indoor ones that hold 5 gallons would be too big, but then I saw @SomeGuy who has ones that hold (I think?) around 18 gallons. Too big is probably not a problem.


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 25, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> Most of the people here who are experimenting with these seem to be moving towards larger res's. I thought my indoor ones that hold 5 gallons would be to big, but then I saw @SomeGuy who has ones that hold (I think?) around 18 gallons. Too big is probably not a problem.


Let me see what I come up with today......... I appreciate all of the help. For my outdoor container with my rubbermaid brute I will be borrowing your idea of three wicks if you don't mind so I can drop two separate plants in it.


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## Humanrob (Apr 25, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Let me see what I come up with today......... I appreciate all of the help. For my outdoor container with my rubbermaid brute I will be borrowing your idea of three wicks if you don't mind so I can drop two separate plants in it.


The other thing I've used is that perforated drain pipe that is used in french drains. Seems to be a good option for this, only bummer is it only comes in 10 foot lengths... left me with one more thing to donate to Habitat for Humanity ReStore. They have it in two diameters, I used the bigger one (6"?) at first, but I think I'm going back to get the narrower one (4"?) for the rest of these, it just feels like the right diameter.


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Apr 25, 2016)

Let's see how this goes, talk about transplant shock lmao.........

Edit: I have the air pump attached to the sight tube and that is bubbling the water, it's a lot quieter than before though lol. So no air stone required and with the fill line marked no drain hole required. Hope it works out well. Should simplify my life a lot.


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## Humanrob (Apr 25, 2016)

This looks like the one pictured above, but its a second one I just made. I used 3" corrugated pipe on this one. It's really easy to work with -- just get a hole-saw the same diameter as the narrow part (3.5" works, the out side ribs are actually about 4"). Then you make small vertical cuts in the last section of pipe, and that makes it easy to push it through the hole the saw made. This took longer to go to HD to get the materials for than it did to build. 

I like using the drain trays because the SmartPots I'm using are pretty floppy, and they seem like they could use the extra support. This will be dropped into the ground almost to where the bucket handle is attached.


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 25, 2016)

What's that a 10 gal pot? Looks good


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## Tim Fox (Apr 25, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> This looks like the one pictured above, but its a second one I just made. I used 3" corrugated pipe on this one. It's really easy to work with -- just get a hole-saw the same diameter as the narrow part (3.5" works, the out side ribs are actually about 4"). Then you make small vertical cuts in the last section of pipe, and that makes it easy to push it through the hole the saw made. This took longer to go to HD to get the materials for than it did to build.
> 
> I like using the drain trays because the SmartPots I'm using are pretty floppy, and they seem like they could use the extra support. This will be dropped into the ground almost to where the bucket handle is attached.
> 
> View attachment 3665754 View attachment 3665755 View attachment 3665753 View attachment 3665752


That's so good Rob


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## Humanrob (Apr 25, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> What's that a 10 gal pot? Looks good


Thanks. Yes, 10 gallon pot that sits over a full 5 gallon reservoir. I expect that I'll wrap the black cloth pot in something like burlap to keep it from drying out too quickly, I had to do that last year with a couple I had in cloth pots. Other than that, is should be an easy run. 



Tim Fox said:


> That's so good Rob


Thanks man. I think I'm finally getting this down! LOL. I've built a crazy number of them... more than I actually have plants to go in them. Perhaps some will have tomatoes....


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 25, 2016)

I have a spare 10 gal smart pot unused and have yet to build my second bucket hmmm...... 

I tried fabric pots but they dried out fast and required a lot of frequent watering so let me know how the wrap works. I was using 2 gal though that time.


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## Humanrob (Apr 25, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> I have a spare 10 gal smart pot unused and have yet to build my second bucket hmmm......
> 
> I tried fabric pots but they dried out fast and required a lot of frequent watering so let me know how the wrap works. I was using 2 gal though that time.


I also found the small ones don't hold much water, especially when the plant gets big, then the roots just suck it up as fast as you can give it to them. Since these are going to be outside the sun is not directly overhead like in a grow room, so the sides of the pot get hit directly and especially in the late afternoon heat, it can dry them out super quickly. Overall I really like cloth pots, air pruning works.


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 25, 2016)

Maybe I will try one of the autos this manner interesting.............


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 25, 2016)

Got the second girl over to her SIP, man what a day. "For me" this was a lot but it's now done and needed to get done today. This NL took the transplant like a champ has not skipped a beat. Off to water the veggies and herbs outdoors while I let these girls adjust to their new setups. Smells like a nursery in the tent with the FFOF lol.... I did top water the soil with R/O and sea weed extract for both girls to get them going being very careful to wet the soil but not increase the water level in the res. Not trying to hijack Humanrob just sharing ideas and adding my $0.02. I appreciate your help and hyroot's and TM's help as well. 

We will see how these girls pan out for this my first run ever lol.....

Off to medicate and water my garden 
Cheers!


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## Humanrob (Apr 25, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Got the second girl over to her SIP, man what a day. "For me" this was a lot but it's now done and needed to get done today. This NL took the transplant like a champ has not skipped a beat. Off to water the veggies and herbs outdoors while I let these girls adjust to their new setups. Smells like a nursery in the tent with the FFOF lol.... I did top water the soil with R/O and sea weed extract for both girls to get them going being very careful to wet the soil but not increase the water level in the res. Not trying to hijack Humanrob just sharing ideas and adding my $0.02. I appreciate your help and hyroot's and TM's help as well.
> 
> We will see how these girls pan out for this my first run ever lol.....
> 
> ...


No hijacking, that's what his thread is all about -- I hope everyone will share their experiments and results. Your set up is looking good, I look forward to seeing its progress.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 25, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> No hijacking, that's what his thread is all about -- I hope everyone will share their experiments and results. Your set up is looking good, I look forward to seeing its progress.


no hijacking,, or YES hijacking,, which is it man


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## Humanrob (Apr 25, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> no hijacking,, or YES hijacking,, which is it man


I meant that its not a case of hijacking... sorry, poorly worded.


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 25, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> No hijacking, that's what his thread is all about -- I hope everyone will share their experiments and results. Your set up is looking good, I look forward to seeing its progress.


Just making sure bro, not new to forums but new to this one 

I'm curious to see your big 18gal tub as I have a tub sitting here ready for something...... and also how that big 10gal smart pot does because I have one of those here as well with a spare bucket


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## Humanrob (Apr 25, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Just making sure bro, not new to forums but new to this one
> 
> I'm curious to see your big 18gal tub as I have a tub sitting here ready for something...... and also how that big 10gal smart pot does because I have one of those here as well with a spare bucket


There are pics of the 18 gallon (which has a 14 gallon nested in it) in the first post, and detail shots in the #10 post on this thread: https://www.rollitup.org/t/cob-sip-scrog.906859/


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 25, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> There are pics of the 18 gallon (which has a 14 gallon nested in it) in the first post, and detail shots in the #10 post on this thread: https://www.rollitup.org/t/cob-sip-scrog.906859/


Right on bro thanks for the info. The setup you did with the three wicks looks good and probably I will do something like that for mine because I will be dropping two plants in there.

What's your take on the tubs with the rocks in the res, then the landscaping fabric, then the soil on top of that? There's a PVC fill tube that runs down to an elbow, and then a drilled PVC pipe across the tub underneath in the rocks..........


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## Humanrob (Apr 25, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Right on bro thanks for the info. The setup you did with the three wicks looks good and probably I will do something like that for mine because I will be dropping two plants in there.
> 
> What's your take on the tubs with the rocks in the res, then the landscaping fabric, then the soil on top of that? There's a PVC fill tube that runs down to an elbow, and then a drilled PVC pipe across the tub underneath in the rocks..........


Hmmmmm... I'm not sure I've ever heard of that one. Uh... sounds... heavy? lol 

I'm sure it works, there are a lot of ways to get results. I'd rather fill the space with just water than rocks and water, so a system that creates an open res sounds better to me. Sometimes it seems to come down to what materials either people have on hand or are comfortable working with.


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 25, 2016)

Thanks for the feedback. The wife saw it on Pinterest today and showed me looked very interesting.


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## hyroot (Apr 25, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Thanks for the feedback. The wife saw it on Pinterest today and showed me looked very interesting.



You poor bastard lol. Pinterest...


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 25, 2016)

hyroot said:


> You poor bastard lol. Pinterest...


If that's the worst of one of my days brother trust me when I tell you how good life really is


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## hyroot (Apr 25, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> If that's the worst of one of my days brother trust me when I tell you how good life really is


All the crafts and recipes that taste horrible that come from pinterest. My x from a couple years ago was nuts about pinterest


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## Humanrob (Apr 25, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Thanks for the feedback. The wife saw it on Pinterest today and showed me looked very interesting.


I have a sort of back door escape plan, in case we have a really cold/wet/windy fall and my outdoor plants don't look like they will make it, and the plan includes moving some into the garage and finishing them under lights. I suppose that's why I'm thinking, rocks? Yeah, I don't want to carry those... lol


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 25, 2016)

hyroot said:


> All the crafts and recipes that taste horrible that come from pinterest. My x from a couple years ago was nuts about pinterest


LMFAO, that's the cook not pinterest fault LOL


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 25, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> I have a sort of back door escape plan, in case we have a really cold/wet/windy fall and my outdoor plants don't look like they will make it, and the plan includes moving some into the garage and finishing them under lights. I suppose that's why I'm thinking, rocks? Yeah, I don't want to carry those... lol


Fair enough I went to a SIP to carry less water around lol......


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## Thorhax (Apr 26, 2016)

http://www.homemadebycarmona.com/garden-fever-prt2-container-gardening/

easy step by step to make a SIP

ill be converting all my areas to SIPs...i just don't see any drawbacks


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## Tim Fox (Apr 26, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Right on bro thanks for the info. The setup you did with the three wicks looks good and probably I will do something like that for mine because I will be dropping two plants in there.
> 
> What's your take on the tubs with the rocks in the res, then the landscaping fabric, then the soil on top of that? There's a PVC fill tube that runs down to an elbow, and then a drilled PVC pipe across the tub underneath in the rocks..........


just remember, three is a point where you can have TOO MUCH WiCk,, resulting in soil that is too moist, leading to root issues, robs 3 wick container appears to be working fine,, but he did not punch to many holes in it,, or he just left the slits in the drain pipe @Humanrob ,, so be careful to not over wick your sip, 
those guys using rocks in the res and the landscape fabric are actually trying to keep the roots out of the res, like in above ground planters, this is not something you want for cannabis, we actaully want water roots, plus filling the res with rocks lowers the anmount of gallons of water your res can hold, 
things to consider


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## Tim Fox (Apr 26, 2016)

hyroot said:


> You poor bastard lol. Pinterest...


I freakin hate pintrest,,, my wife and daughter are killing me with that web site,, I will be forever building stuf for them,, ARRGHHH ,, the curse of man


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 26, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> just remember, three is a point where you can have TOO MUCH WiCk,, resulting in soil that is too moist, leading to root issues, robs 3 wick container appears to be working fine,, but he did not punch to many holes in it,, or he just left the slits in the drain pipe @Humanrob ,, so be careful to not over wick your sip,
> those guys using rocks in the res and the landscape fabric are actually trying to keep the roots out of the res, like in above ground planters, this is not something you want for cannabis, we actaully want water roots, plus filling the res with rocks lowers the anmount of gallons of water your res can hold,
> things to consider



All very valid points. Thanks for the input once again


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## Humanrob (Apr 26, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> just remember, three is a point where you can have TOO MUCH WiCk,, resulting in soil that is too moist, leading to root issues, robs 3 wick container appears to be working fine,, but he did not punch to many holes in it,, or he just left the slits in the drain pipe @Humanrob ,, so be careful to not over wick your sip,
> those guys using rocks in the res and the landscape fabric are actually trying to keep the roots out of the res, like in above ground planters, this is not something you want for cannabis, we actaully want water roots, plus filling the res with rocks lowers the anmount of gallons of water your res can hold,
> things to consider


Really good information Tim. It's important not to lose sight of the big picture. Some systems are focused just on the self-watering part, and others are utilizing the plants ability to reach the reservoir as a benefit.



Thorhax said:


> http://www.homemadebycarmona.com/garden-fever-prt2-container-gardening/
> 
> easy step by step to make a SIP
> 
> ill be converting all my areas to SIPs...i just don't see any drawbacks


In the #4 post on this thread I link to this, but I think its worth repeating -- The folks at this site *http://earthtainer.tomatofest.com/* give a comprehensive overview of how SIPs work (at least the kinds I'm trying to emulate), and then near that bottom of that page provide free instructions on how to build one with Rubbermaid bins, in *this PDF file*. That, and the information on the *Octopot* website in the _how it works_ section, is a great place to get an overview for this 'technology'. One thing they both stress (and several other manufacturers) is an air gap between the water and the soil, so that's something I've kept in all of my DIY versions.


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 27, 2016)

Now we should start seeing some progress my Tasty LED T2-2100 came in today, no more blurple! Wow this is what an LED light does lol. HUGE difference even on just veg mode, wow. Built extremely well, and I do not find the fan too loud at all like I have seen others say. This is much quieter than the Progro 260 it's replacing. I'm hoping for good results combining it with the SIP's


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 28, 2016)

Rob & Tim & @hyroot 

Yesterday was my first time watering the plants in the SIP's, I must confess, you guys have ruined me. Compared to the DWC this was soooooo much simpler, water in a cup fill until it reaches the line done. No PH, mixing nutes, etc. 

Question for you guys. If I am using R/O water (is there any benefit in this system), should I be adding cal mag to the water like in DWC? My R/O setup does have a mineral filter on it not sure if that would be enough. 

Thanks


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## Tim Fox (Apr 28, 2016)

the question on adding cal mag to the res in a SIP has not been fully answered by some, 
I add domolite lime to my soil that ads cal mag, 
I was asking some of the others if adding cal mag to the sip res was ok,, some consididered it nutes, I really didnt think so,, some asked if adding cal mag meant having to ph the water,, 
then someguy said he ads organic cal mag to his soil,, so only water in his res,, i asked about the organic cal mag, not sure If that was answered,,
i hope the cal mag question gets answered before my next grow,, because the cobs make the plants cal m ag hungry at times,,


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 28, 2016)

Yes I had been reading about the COB's and the cal mag that's why I was asking, curious if anyone had an answer based on experience. I have my GH calimagic here that I was using in the DWC setup but not "organic" cal mag. Supposedly the mineral filter on my R/O setup helps with this and brings the PPM up a tiny bit.......


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## hyroot (Apr 28, 2016)

There's plenty of calcium in my soil mix so I don't need to add any. Usually..... crab meal, kelp meal, neem cake, oyster shell flour, fish bone meal, and the basalt rock dust all have calcium. Plus my worm castings do as well. I use tap water. Ppm's are low in the tap water here. Around 200 ppm's. I aerate the water for a day at least before adding it to the sips. I have a 30 gal resi that's constantly full and aerating water.

Ro water does create waste grey water. But I do use Ro water for drinking , ice, and cooking and making ice wax. But not my plants lol.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 28, 2016)

whats the idea behind RO water any ways?
why not just use tap water? I am on a well so no clorine


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## Humanrob (May 2, 2016)

I've been contemplating the sanctity of the top layer of soil... looking for ways to never top feed. There seem to be real advantages to leaving it dry, both in terms of bug suppression and allowing the plant to focus all its root growth down and out. 

Up to now, I added nutes throughout the grow, so its really hard for me to imagine the plants making the full run without a boost. And with LED/COB lights, cal-mag seems to be essential.

So, I've been thinking about "feeding tubes". I cut some PVC pipes to various lengths, and the idea would be to stick them into the soil, and give light feedings while by-passing the top couple of inches of soil. Optimally, in future grows I would create an L shape of PVC with the a fill tube going down and then turning 90º to horizontal, that would be set into the soil during transplant. The horizontal section would have holes in it -- in essence, a wick in reverse. This could/should distribute the nutes somewhat. 


I look forward to hearing from those who have started before me, regarding how your plants finished and if they needed anything extra? Has anyone used SIPs all the way through harvest yet?


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## SomeGuy (May 2, 2016)

if you have the right soil you can make it to the end and then some man. dry ferts work great.


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## Humanrob (May 2, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> if you have the right soil you can make it to the end and then some man. dry ferts work great.


Very cool, I didn't realize that you had a run go through to harvest in SIPs already.


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## goodro wilson (May 2, 2016)

Ok u guys convinced me l...
I am not sure how it works without adding air stone but I'll probably add one anyways
I'm gonna use two $1 buckets from dollar tree they are super simple to cut or poke holes in bc they are cheap and flimsy
They also sale a cool little net pot looking pencil cup idk I have some pvc laying around so my sip cost me 3 bucks total
Can I use perlite for the wicking cup or should I get some coco
I already like to use dry ferts in all growth stages so seems like this would work well


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## SomeGuy (May 2, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> Very cool, I didn't realize that you had a run go through to harvest in SIPs already.


I haven't but I have for sure grown full cycle in organics adding nothing. So I full well know its possible.


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## Humanrob (May 2, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> I haven't but I have for sure grown full cycle in organics adding nothing. So I full well know its possible.


Got it, that makes sense. I've never done full organics, I can see how with the right soil it can work. I don't have that much confidence in my store-bought soil mix, so I'm pretty sure I'm going to need to supplement it along the way. Thanks for clarifying.


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## Tim Fox (May 5, 2016)

goodro wilson said:


> Ok u guys convinced me l...
> I am not sure how it works without adding air stone but I'll probably add one anyways
> I'm gonna use two $1 buckets from dollar tree they are super simple to cut or poke holes in bc they are cheap and flimsy
> They also sale a cool little net pot looking pencil cup idk I have some pvc laying around so my sip cost me 3 bucks total
> ...


hey, did you get these built,,


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## goodro wilson (May 6, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> hey, did you get these built,,


Yes kinda
Waiting another week or so to transplant into one seems like a foolproof watering method may change over this 4x4 to them if I like them
I pretty much only add water anyways
I'll post some pics of it when I get off
I read some people use bamboo and think that would look cooler lol


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## Evil-Mobo (May 6, 2016)

My SIP's are drinking. And the new growth and the rate of it is just not believable. If I hadn't seen it for myself......

The COB's and the SIP with the water bubbling seems to be a winning combo thus far. Can't wait to get the bigger tent up and running


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## Humanrob (May 6, 2016)

Got into a discussion on another thread, but maybe it can get some coverage here. I noticed that my res level tubes were clouding up, and @Mohican suggested that I smell the water, and check out a sample under magnification. That resulted in my noticing very small living things swimming around in my reservoirs (looked like ameba, if I recall high school biology with any accuracy). 

It is inconclusive whether this is a good or bad thing. It seems comparable to "living soil" -- outstanding when you have the right things living in there, not so good when its the wrong stuff. And similar discussions to those about when compost tea is good or bad, the smell test came up -- how does the water smell? I would bet the average temperature of the grow space is going to influence the amount of aquatic life. I'm sure there are a lot of factors, but I have to think anyone using a SIP has stuff living in the water. 

So the first question seems to be: Do we want to discourage anything from living in our water? If so, H2O2 or very small amounts of bleach, or simply using city tap water that is chlorinated, might be sufficient to keep it in check.

People are saying SIPs are an amalgam of hydro and soil, so maybe some experienced hydro growers can comment. I was wondering if adding something like Hygrozyme to the res (!?! I know nothing about this stuff) might be a good thing? Or any suggestions are welcome.


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## Evil-Mobo (May 6, 2016)

I stopped using my R/O and been using tap water and have had no issues. The plants actually are growing faster with better color in the new growth with the tap. But I do have my hydro stuff still and the hydroguard from botanicare is on standby as is the cal mag but from what I have seen thus far the tap water as is from the faucet is getting it done. I would also like to hear from anyone else that may have more info on this subject that Rob just brought up.


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## Will Thayer (May 9, 2016)

Hello All,
I like the concept of SIPs so I decided to have a go at making some myself. I have two flavours a square 17L (4.49 USG) felt pot and a 26L (7USG) round felt pot. The reservoir is 5L washing up bowls(I am trying to keep things low due to height restrictions). I will drill an overflow hole to leave space for air between the water and soil. I will connect the top plate to the rim of the reservoir with plastic split rivets to hold it all together.

I would like the group's opinion on a few things if I may. First question would be with only a 5L reservoir, is an airstone a necessity or will the air gap suffice? 
Secondly should I drill multiple small holes in the square top plate or let the roots find their way to the reservoir via the net pot wick?

       

Cheers,
Will


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## GroErr (May 9, 2016)

Will Thayer said:


> Hello All,
> I like the concept of SIPs so I decided to have a go at making some myself. I have two flavours a square 17L (4.49 USG) felt pot and a 26L (7USG) round felt pot. The reservoir is 5L washing up bowls(I am trying to keep things low due to height restrictions). I will drill an overflow hole to leave space for air between the water and soil. I will connect the top plate to the rim of the reservoir with plastic split rivets to hold it all together.
> 
> I would like the group's opinion on a few things if I may. First question would be with only a 5L reservoir, is an airstone a necessity or will the air gap suffice?
> ...


Looks good, similar to the concept I'm waiting for parts to build,other than the res. Good idea on the lower height res if you need the headroom. Personally I'm going to skip the air stone at least initially, easy enough to add if needed/wanted.


----------



## Humanrob (May 9, 2016)

Will Thayer said:


> Hello All,
> I like the concept of SIPs so I decided to have a go at making some myself. I have two flavours a square 17L (4.49 USG) felt pot and a 26L (7USG) round felt pot. The reservoir is 5L washing up bowls(I am trying to keep things low due to height restrictions). I will drill an overflow hole to leave space for air between the water and soil. I will connect the top plate to the rim of the reservoir with plastic split rivets to hold it all together.
> 
> I would like the group's opinion on a few things if I may. First question would be with only a 5L reservoir, is an airstone a necessity or will the air gap suffice?
> ...


Good morning Will. As I see it there are two primary types of commercially made SIPs that most people are borrowing designs from -- the *Octopot* style, and something like the *EarthTainer* (with its excellent *PDF DIY* instructions). The Octopot uses a cloth pot over a res, and the EarthTainer uses one plastic bin sitting in another. Everyone has been experimenting, merging and pulling from the designs based on the information the manufacturers provide on why, as well as how they work.

According to Octopot, air stones are not necessary and can be detrimental. In their design using the cloth pot, I don't know if there are holes along the bottom the way there are with EarthTainers and *Earthboxes*. The only RIU member I know who uses one is @captainmorgan , so maybe he can let us know if they have any holes along the underside. I don't believe that the holes in the bottom plate of the EarthTainer and Earthbox are for roots to travel through, the 1" air gap would "air prune" those roots. All the roots I've seen so far are growing exclusively through the wick.

EDIT: just looked at Octopots website again and their illustration does show roots crossing the air gap... hmmmm... interesting. I thought the gap was to prevent that.

Looks like you are off to a great start.


----------



## Will Thayer (May 9, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Looks good, similar to the concept I'm waiting for parts to build,other than the res. Good idea on the lower height res if you need the headroom. Personally I'm going to skip the air stone at least initially, easy enough to add if needed/wanted.


Yes to be honest running without an air stone first is how I am leaning at the moment. Like you say, adding one later is simple enough. Time will tell I suppose.

Cheers,
Will


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## Will Thayer (May 9, 2016)

@Humanrob,
Thanks for your input. It appears I am following the "octopot" theory. I would rather not drill a tedious amount of smaller holes for sure. As regards to the air stone, I am rather "watt" conscious these days and if it is not moving air or producing photons I would prefer to do without it. I know air pumps draw very little power but as they say "mind the pennies and the £pounds look after themselves. 

Cheers,
Will


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## SomeGuy (May 9, 2016)

Personally I would do more of a wick will. No need to drill holes in the plastic. in the octopot design the roots grow from the wick into the water. So more wick = more roots. With that big of a soft pot and that small of a rez you will be refilling often. So no worries about standing water IMO. Airstones are like a turbo charger for this type of growing though. 

I'm running 10gl pots w 3-4gl of wick (so 13gl -/+). They are on top of a 27gl rez and I am now filling once every 7-10 days in flower. When I fill there is usually 2" of water in the tub and I'm putting about 18-19gl of water in when filling up. 

Picture is worth a thousand words right?


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## GroErr (May 9, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Personally I would do more of a wick will. No need to drill holes in the plastic. in the octopot design the roots grow from the wick into the water. So more wick = more roots. With that big of a soft pot and that small of a rez you will be refilling often. So no worries about standing water IMO. Airstones are like a turbo charger for this type of growing though.
> 
> I'm running 10gl pots w 3-4gl of wick (so 13gl -/+). They are on top of a 27gl rez and I am now filling once every 7-10 days in flower. When I fill there is usually 2" of water in the tub and I'm putting about 18-19gl of water in when filling up.
> 
> ...


Hey SG, nice SIP jungle you have going there. Are you punching any holes into those fabric pots or are they growing through the cloth? I've never seen roots get through my cloth pots and was thinking of just punching some small holes in them, probably not necessary?


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## SomeGuy (May 9, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Hey SG, nice SIP jungle you have going there. Are you punching any holes into those fabric pots or are they growing through the cloth? I've never seen roots get through my cloth pots and was thinking of just punching some small holes in them, probably not necessary?


There is a big ass netpot wick that goes through the softpot down to the bottom of each tub. So there is one big ass hole in the bottom.


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## GroErr (May 9, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> There is a big ass netpot wick that goes through the softpot down to the bottom of each tub. So there is one big ass hole in the bottom.


Thought I'd seen some of your root shots which looked like hydro root balls, seems to be working just fine for you! I'm just looking for a way to water them when I'm away so not going to drill them, just let them "suck" the water up as they need it. Cheers.


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## SomeGuy (May 9, 2016)

That was my original motivation... Fool proof auto-water. Not to mention that it stays easy the whole time. Just fill before leaving and there is a ten day window. 

I'm going to work on a vegg system soon so I can leave the entire grow unattended for 7-10days as needed... 

Hydro roots and hydro growth in organic soil! Let me tell you, I feel like I've found the grail.. Lol



GroErr said:


> Thought I'd seen some of your root shots which looked like hydro root balls, seems to be working just fine for you! I'm just looking for a way to water them when I'm away so not going to drill them, just let them "suck" the water up as they need it. Cheers.


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## Evil-Mobo (May 9, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> That was my original motivation... Fool proof auto-water. Not to mention that it stays easy the whole time. Just fill before leaving and there is a ten day window.
> 
> I'm going to work on a vegg system soon so I can leave the entire grow unattended for 7-10days as needed...
> 
> Hydro roots and hydro growth in organic soil! Let me tell you, I feel like I've found the grail.. Lol



coming from a DWC setup prior to my SIP's this is exactly how I feel!


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## captainmorgan (May 9, 2016)

The Octopot has a cone shaped plastic part like a net pot at the bottom for the roots to grow through,some people run them with 5 gal buckets with holes drilled in them instead of the fabric sleeve and cone. They work without a air stone but actually work better with one,I use two low profile stones in mine,one on each side.


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## GroErr (May 9, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> That was my original motivation... Fool proof auto-water. Not to mention that it stays easy the whole time. Just fill before leaving and there is a ten day window.
> 
> I'm going to work on a vegg system soon so I can leave the entire grow unattended for 7-10days as needed...
> 
> Hydro roots and hydro growth in organic soil! Let me tell you, I feel like I've found the grail.. Lol


lol, every time I see the word "grail" my mind wanders to a scene from The Life of Brian where they're all signing while hanging from crosses. Your plants look like they're signing so you're doing something right  10-14 days would be awesome, and veg is definitely in the cards for me. Blu-mat's can handle the party cups and small one gallons but veg and flowering would need some form of SIP or drip system. Not crazy about the drip systems, have one but a lot of setup required for temporary setups, plus they keep them alive, but not thriving which seems to be the case with these SIPs.


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## vostok (May 9, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> *Sub-irrigated planter*
> _From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia_
> 
> 
> ...


Back in the 1980's I tried this technique, for several months, until my mentor discovered it,...lol

and kicked my butt..This idea works well, for many plants but not weed!

weed is a semi wood plant, it 'enjoys' that dry bit between watering s

the association of air and water is very tight with weed, with the above setup, theirs not enough air in the water

if it was aerated with a pump then this would work well

This is a great method if you are away for 1-2 weeks with nobody to help you out

besides .. I can't think of an easier way to breed bugs and flies

my2c 

good luck


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## Humanrob (May 9, 2016)

@vostok -- some good points. Letting them dry out also (from what I've read) makes them less susceptible to PM. I've been wondering about all of this, and I look forward to seeing how the res's look after someone flowers for a long Sativa run, like 11 weeks. Depending on ambient temps/water temps, how much air movement is going on in the res, whether you are using well or city water, etc., there may be limits to how long a res can run before it gets mucked up. And mucked up might still be OK... it remains to be seen.


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## vostok (May 9, 2016)

One of the most common replies here on RIU has to be

*'Lift your pot before you water' check that weight..?*

cause if you don't, you are just pouring more water into that soil blowing out even more air

and its this air that them root hairs need
_
fuck Rob now I'm rolling ...lol_

some serious magic shit happens with roots

1: the plants sweats out some ouzzie slime to the rootlets

2: fungi spores in the soil helps it out in exchange for nutes

3: the ouzzie melts and sucks up nutes in the soil

4: the plant sends them nutes upstairs to return later to store in the roots as carbohydrates 

air during this growing operation is just as important as water

its important that you let the plant decide on weather it wants/needs water or air at any given time

see this weed thing as a pet rather than as a machine, will give you ample dividends each time

good luck thanks for the Rant/...lol


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## Humanrob (May 9, 2016)

vostok said:


> One of the most common replies here on RIU has to be
> 
> *'Lift your pot before you water' check that weight..?*
> 
> ...


I am not top watering, the soil has a gradation from dry to wet, a lot like the ground. I'm also using a loose soil mix with lots of perlite, and since I am not top watering the soil does not get compacted over time, it remains loose, and therefore I think aerated.

I'm not an expert, but as I understand it the plant will develop "water roots" that will tap into the reservoir, and they can handle a lot of water. The res pretty much (but not completely) empties between fillings, so there is an air exchange there. There is also an air gap between the water and the soil, so the soil is not sitting in water, the lower part stays moist equal to the rate it can wick water. All that and an air stone in my res, and I think I'm going to be OK. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Will Thayer (May 9, 2016)

Hello Vostok,
Thanks for adding to the discussion. I agree that cannabis has a preference for an oxygenated root zone. Felt pots are known to dry out faster than plastic ones. They also should contribute to air exchange to some extent. Perhaps the combination of felt pots with small reservoirs and the makeup of your soil mix is the answer.
After hearing Captainmorgan's experiences with air stones and octopots, the addition of air stones would seem to prove beneficial. I think the root zone will thrive as long as it is not anaerobic. Though not particularly my cup of tea, many growers have had great success with DWC. Even though their medium is oxygenated water.
The old adage of lifting the pots before watering is tried and true. The practice is good to avoid over watering (anaerobic root zone) and leaching of nutrients from your soil. I think what appeals to me about subirrigation is the ability to water the plants without disturbing the soil by either compaction or leaching.

Reading your posts I gather you are a gardener with many years of experience who knows that building a good soil with the right balance and healthy micro herd takes time and patience. I am cursed by my obsession to forever tinker with my garden. After listening to folks opinions and weighing up their results. I still have the need to experiment. If a new technique proves successful I feel like I have grown (shameless pun) as a gardener.

Cheers,
Will


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## GroErr (May 9, 2016)

vostok said:


> *This is a great method if you are away for 1-2 weeks with nobody to help you out*


This is exactly why I'm going to give it a shot, can't f'up too much in a week so if they keep the plants happy for a week at a time they'll have served their purpose for me. A simple/cheap design that can be setup a couple of hours before you hop on a plane would be great.

That said, watching some grows where they're taking them through flowering like SG's. It'll be interesting if this method is successful throughout veg/flowering. I'm sure the first people who tried the many hydro methods used today were chastised for doing shit that didn't fit into the rule books. Cheers.


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## Evil-Mobo (May 9, 2016)

GroErr said:


> This is exactly why I'm going to give it a shot, can't f'up too much in a week so if they keep the plants happy for a week at a time they'll have served their purpose for me. A simple/cheap design that can be setup a couple of hours before you hop on a plane would be great.
> 
> That said, watching some grows where they're taking them through flowering like SG's. It'll be interesting if this method is successful throughout veg/flowering. I'm sure the first people who tried the many hydro methods used today were chastised for doing shit that didn't fit into the rule books. Cheers.


From my experience so far how long you can stay away is dependent on of course the size of your Res, but also how much the plant is drinking which can vary greatly from strain to strain. My one Sativa drink almost twice as much as my Indica dom plant at the moment. There's no way I could be away for two weeks from these plants with my setup, but I knew that going into it. I think with all the experimenting we (those of us using SIP's) are doing we will find there will be a point of "too much res" we just need to find out exactly what that point is. 

I have a huge Rubbermaid Brute here begging for a SIP setup, but I am closely watching Rob's setup before proceeding, as he is having issues with PM and dirty water in the res. My res water has been crystal clear thus far, but my water is also not sitting around as long as it's a smaller res and being used by the plants, and I have the res bubbling.....


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## Tim Fox (May 9, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Personally I would do more of a wick will. No need to drill holes in the plastic. in the octopot design the roots grow from the wick into the water. So more wick = more roots. With that big of a soft pot and that small of a rez you will be refilling often. So no worries about standing water IMO. Airstones are like a turbo charger for this type of growing though.
> 
> I'm running 10gl pots w 3-4gl of wick (so 13gl -/+). They are on top of a 27gl rez and I am now filling once every 7-10 days in flower. When I fill there is usually 2" of water in the tub and I'm putting about 18-19gl of water in when filling up.
> 
> ...


Ok I am far from a math wizard, but If i did it somewhat close, your using 1 gallon of water per day? more or less?


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## Tim Fox (May 9, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> That was my original motivation... Fool proof auto-water. Not to mention that it stays easy the whole time. Just fill before leaving and there is a ten day window.
> 
> I'm going to work on a vegg system soon so I can leave the entire grow unattended for 7-10days as needed...
> 
> Hydro roots and hydro growth in organic soil! Let me tell you, I feel like I've found the grail.. Lol


Yup,,, the Holy Grail,,


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## GroErr (May 9, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> From my experience so far how long you can stay away is dependent on of course the size of your Res, but also how much the plant is drinking which can vary greatly from strain to strain. My one Sativa drink almost twice as much as my Indica dom plant at the moment. There's no way I could be away for two weeks from these plants with my setup, but I knew that going into it. I think with all the experimenting we (those of us using SIP's) are doing we will find there will be a point of "too much res" we just need to find out exactly what that point is.
> 
> I have a huge Rubbermaid Brute here begging for a SIP setup, but I am closely watching Rob's setup before proceeding, as he is having issues with PM and dirty water in the res. My res water has been crystal clear thus far, but my water is also not sitting around as long as it's a smaller res and being used by the plants, and I have the res bubbling.....


Yeah strain/pheno can certainly be different but the container size, environment and res size will be the bigger factors. Why I'm trying to essentially use the whole container for water (other than the space the wick and air space take). And yes, no matter how you cut it or try and slow down evaporation, adding water to your room will increase RH so there has to be a balance.


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## Evil-Mobo (May 9, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Yeah strain/pheno can certainly be different but the container size, environment and res size will be the bigger factors. Why I'm trying to essentially use the whole container for water (other than the space the wick and air space take). And yes, no matter how you cut it or try and slow down evaporation, adding water to your room will increase RH so there has to be a balance.


Yes and where I am humiditiy is already high to begin with lol...... many factors, no two SIP's will be the same......


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## GroErr (May 9, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Yes and where I am humiditiy is already high to begin with lol...... many factors, no two SIP's will be the same......


Yeah, same here, always fighting to keep my RH down so should be interesting to see what happens if I throw 8x 3.5gal buckets of water into the room. They'd work great in that respect in really dry climates.


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## Humanrob (May 9, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Yeah, same here, always fighting to keep my RH down so should be interesting to see what happens if I throw 8x 3.5gal buckets of water into the room. They'd work great in that respect in really dry climates.


Yeah, I think some of the first people to use these were in drought situations, because top watering a garden is so wasteful.



Evil-Mobo said:


> I have a huge Rubbermaid Brute here begging for a SIP setup, but I am closely watching Rob's setup before proceeding, as he is having issues with PM and dirty water in the res. My res water has been crystal clear thus far, but my water is also not sitting around as long as it's a smaller res and being used by the plants, and I have the res bubbling.....


I think my cloudy water issues was an imperfect storm of errors. First, I used FF Marine Cuisine that I had left over, as part of my soil mix. Apparently MC is a mix of time release and some salt-based nutes. Then I was putting it together on a day I had too much going on, and I forgot to wet each layer as I went, so to make sure it was soaked through and would wick I top watered the heck out of it when I transplaned the plants in. I think the combination of over-saturation to the point of seeping into the res, and water-born nitrogen from the fast dissolving salt-based nutes, made my water ripe for life (based on things I've been reading). Add to that the kink in the bubbler line and no oxygen getting to the water, with stagnant nitrogen rich water would have been enough to cause my issues (that's my hypothesis anyway). The point is, mine is so far an anomaly. It can happen, but should be easy to avoid.

Edit: and I forgot one factor -- we had a bit of a heat wave and my grow room got very warm. There were times when it was up to 88º in the tent. Add warmth to that mix... bacteria heaven.


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## captainmorgan (May 9, 2016)

Been using the Octopots for quite some time now and love them,never had any res issues or bug problems,get a few fungus gnats now and then but they come in the soil and are easy to get rid of,I normally have some spring tails in the res but they are harmless. I get crazy growth and yield with them and don't have to water/feed them every day,in heavy flower I have to fill them every other day but in veg maybe every 5 days or more. I was skeptical at first but they work great for me,I have a pic in one of my threads of two clones,one put into a regular pot and one into the octopot,after about two weeks the octopot plant was like twice the size of the other.


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## Will Thayer (May 9, 2016)

I am in the process of making Lactobacillus serum. I used rice wash mixed with barley and alfalfa wash. I put it in a bowl in a warm room. Within a day there was all kinds of life going on. Your conclusions sound legit. There is loads of bacteria in the air, run off from your soil will be teeming with all sorts of critters. Add a food source and away life goes. Even though it has buggered your res, it is still pretty cool that life is all around us just trying to live.

I am sure each of us will dial in our own SIPs eventually. It is good to hear others experiences and opinions. Good or bad, if it has substance it has merit.

Captainmorgan, The octopot looks the business. If they are available over here(U.K.) I would imagine they would be pricey. They are something I would look at purchasing if available at the right money. The earthbox is available here but they are asking too much coin for it in Europe. 

Cheers,
Will


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## SomeGuy (May 9, 2016)

Although mine are larger diy ones they are built relatively the same as an octopot. OMG. So bad ass. Exactly this kind of growth. I think the soil part of the equation helps buffer any problems with the roots that are in the rez. They drink very fast.



captainmorgan said:


> Been using the Octopots for quite some time now and love them,never had any res issues or bug problems,get a few fungus gnats now and then but they come in the soil and are easy to get rid of,I normally have some spring tails in the res but they are harmless. I get crazy growth and yield with them and don't have to water/feed them every day,in heavy flower I have to fill them every other day but in veg maybe every 5 days or more. I was skeptical at first but they work great for me,I have a pic in one of my threads of two clones,one put into a regular pot and one into the octopot,after about two weeks the octopot plant was like twice the size of the other.


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## SomeGuy (May 9, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> Ok I am far from a math wizard, but If i did it somewhat close, your using 1 gallon of water per day? more or less?


Probably just a bit more. I expect it to gradually increase tbh...lol. 

Let me say this. I've done lots of different types of hydro, and grown soil. This is by far the best growth w the least amount of work on my part I have ever seen in almost 10yrs of growing. So I'm already sold. Now I just need to engineer something for vegg that is equally carefree that works well in conjunction w the flower room. Lol


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## Tim Fox (May 9, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Probably just a bit more. I expect it to gradually increase tbh...lol.
> 
> Let me say this. I've done lots of different types of hydro, and grown soil. This is by far the best growth w the least amount of work on my part I have ever seen in almost 10yrs of growing. So I'm already sold. Now I just need to engineer something for vegg that is equally carefree that works well in conjunction w the flower room. Lol


Thanks, my Res is 2.5 gallons, all I ever need to do is a short weekend get away while growing, I think I can increase the res size to maybe 4 gallons with a seperate tank and a gravity hose,, if needed


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## Tim Fox (May 9, 2016)

captainmorgan said:


> Been using the Octopots for quite some time now and love them,never had any res issues or bug problems,get a few fungus gnats now and then but they come in the soil and are easy to get rid of,I normally have some spring tails in the res but they are harmless. I get crazy growth and yield with them and don't have to water/feed them every day,in heavy flower I have to fill them every other day but in veg maybe every 5 days or more. I was skeptical at first but they work great for me,I have a pic in one of my threads of two clones,one put into a regular pot and one into the octopot,after about two weeks the octopot plant was like twice the size of the other.


Capt, what soil are you running in your octopots?


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## captainmorgan (May 9, 2016)

I made up 4 of these,cut down net pot and a 2 gal fabric pot with the bottom cut out except a lip for the net pot to rest on. Just need to make a lid for the Octopot res and I can use it for pheno hunting some seeds with small plants.


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## captainmorgan (May 9, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> Capt, what soil are you running in your octopots?


I use a mix of one bag Happy Frog and one bag Ocean Forest.


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## vostok (May 9, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> I am not top watering, the soil has a gradation from dry to wet, a lot like the ground. I'm also using a loose soil mix with lots of perlite, and since I am not top watering the soil does not get compacted over time, it remains loose, and therefore I think aerated.
> 
> I'm not an expert, but as I understand it the plant will develop "water roots" that will tap into the reservoir, and they can handle a lot of water. The res pretty much (but not completely) empties between fillings, so there is an air exchange there. There is also an air gap between the water and the soil, so the soil is not sitting in water, the lower part stays moist equal to the rate it can wick water. All that and an air stone in my res, and I think I'm going to be OK. I'll let you know how it goes.


ur profile is locked

but I invite you to look at a couple of books

that have helped many growers in the past up on my mediafire account

_http://www.mediafire.com/download/jfedz248aj9jtk8/Teaming_With_Microbes.pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/download/kfg66s1m8m426jw/Teaming_with_Nutrients.pdf_


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## captainmorgan (May 9, 2016)

With the Octopot you fill by the res only and no top watering or your ppm will spike.


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## Evil-Mobo (May 9, 2016)

captainmorgan said:


> I use a mix of one bag Happy Frog and one bag Ocean Forest.


Hello Cap,

Can you elaborate why this mixture vs one or the other. I am currently using OF with good success.

Thanks


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## Humanrob (May 9, 2016)

vostok said:


> ur profile is locked
> 
> but I invite you to look at a couple of books
> 
> ...


Thanks vostok, those look to be deep with information.


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## Will Thayer (May 10, 2016)

Well played Vostok!
Teaming with microbes is a great read. I have not read teaming with nutrients as of yet. I always try to take or make something from every post I read. Your post is truly a great gift. It has made my morning. My gratitude to you Sir. 
You give me the Happy Face!


Cheers,
Will


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## hyroot (May 10, 2016)

Ahhh sit. Captain is getting in on diy sips now. Why did you stop the organic soil mixes @captainmorgan? Back in the cree globe days you were getting great results with no till.


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## Rocket Soul (May 10, 2016)

Ok people. Im a noob, but i have had people growing around me, with variable success for the past several years and ive read alot around the interwebs etc. Im thinking about putting together a grow cabinet. Been playing around with different ideas when i come onto this, seems fairly easy especially since over/underwatering seems to be the first way of messing up. So id like to ask you if this would be a good idea, with the setup im planning. Cab is 2.5'*5'*8', growing in 2x4, 2 chambers: veg on top, flower below. Thinking flowering using plastic square cases in 2'*2'*1' for res, 4 plants each case and then scroging. Going to use led about 400w of cree or similar for flower. My RH average during the year is about 70 percent already but the cab has room for a dehumidifier, keeping a foot width for utilityspace. Is this feasible? As in amount of plants, humidity. Would like to keep height no more than 5 feet for flowering, less better. How would you do a setup with this system to reach maximum yields with little hassle? 

The alternative ive been thinking about is to make up and down cabinet spaces same height 4' and have some full cycle light (3500k) as top light, and with 5000k and 2700k side lighting led cob run softly, many light points being able to switch between warm and cold side lighting. This lighting in each compartment. But the idea of being able to simplify watering with great result seems intriguing. 

Also, was going to use organic soil anyway, does that mean i dont have to monitor ph if i water at bottom? Or i do, but only if i wanna use nutes in water? 
My pots (2-3 gallon i was thinking) seems very small compared to what everyone are using in this thread. Will they be enough with nutes or can i use nutes in water? Loads of question and i realize some here have only just started with sip. 
Thanks 
E


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## vostok (May 10, 2016)

Rocket Soul said:


> Ok people. Im a noob, but i have had people growing around me, with variable success for the past several years and ive read alot around the interwebs etc. Im thinking about putting together a grow cabinet. Been playing around with different ideas when i come onto this, seems fairly easy especially since over/underwatering seems to be the first way of messing up. So id like to ask you if this would be a good idea, with the setup im planning. Cab is 2.5'*5'*8', growing in 2x4, 2 chambers: veg on top, flower below. Thinking flowering using plastic square cases in 2'*2'*1' for res, 4 plants each case and then scroging. Going to use led about 400w of cree or similar for flower. My RH average during the year is about 70 percent already but the cab has room for a dehumidifier, keeping a foot width for utilityspace. Is this feasible? As in amount of plants, humidity. Would like to keep height no more than 5 feet for flowering, less better. How would you do a setup with this system to reach maximum yields with little hassle?
> 
> The alternative ive been thinking about is to make up and down cabinet spaces same height 4' and have some full cycle light (3500k) as top light, and with 5000k and 2700k side lighting led cob run softly, many light points being able to switch between warm and cold side lighting. This lighting in each compartment. But the idea of being able to simplify watering with great result seems intriguing.
> 
> ...


...How would you do a setup with this system to reach maximum yields with little hassle?

You will never know until you pull the trigger..?

imo/= I'd do 1-2 grows in your new craft before installing the diy? LED.

even under a diy CFL array, is cooler my concern is excess heat?

once you are confident about any excess heat

hang the new light in, at least before flower

the use of autos can be a lot easier on growers the first time round

the 12 week grow is here

_https://www.rollitup.org/Journal/Entry/12-week-grow-sceneario-by-jorge-cervantas.30164/_

good luck

ps ,make ur own thread ...lol


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## Rocket Soul (May 10, 2016)

Thank you Vostok for your advice. Still in planning phase, not set to start growing til september/october. Where i am in spain things get really hot in the summer so til i can fork out for ac im limited to about 9months a year. Having a look at link and autoflowers. I was mostly asking reg RH=70 and if theres even a point to try sips as they must add a bit of humidity. Ill look into cooling as well, apart from ventilation.

I dunno, being a newbie, i tend to read and read and read and come up with stuff i want to do without thinking how complex it gets in the end. Will make my thread once i get the wood for the cabinet. Already sure of what dimebsions can fit. Thanks again


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## captainmorgan (May 10, 2016)

My pheno hunter adaptation of a octopot is done. I only cut two holes for now because I only have two plants to run this time,I'll cut the other two holes when I need them.


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## Tim Fox (May 10, 2016)

Nice Capt


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## captainmorgan (May 10, 2016)

Popped a couple Chaos bx2 seeds that I'll flower soon.


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## Humanrob (May 10, 2016)

captainmorgan said:


> My pheno hunter adaptation of a octopot is done. I only cut two holes for now because I only have two plants to run this time,I'll cut the other two holes when I need them.


Looks good, I hope you'll show us the whole set up when it has the plants in it. I'm also looking forward to hear how your search goes. Looking back I can see you really influenced me, everything from seeing how well your SIP did to how well your Gorilla Glue did -- I ended out growing that last inside grow and I have one I'm going to do outdoor this summer.


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## Humanrob (May 12, 2016)

I'm setting up my outdoor SIPs. I'm a little concerned, after doing my unintentional air stone vs no air stone test, that my outside res's won't have any forced air movement. A lot of the pre-manufactured SIPs (EarthBox etc) are all designed to be run outside, but they seem to have larger openings where the overflow is, its not just a 1/4" hole. One thing I'm considering is drilling holes (maybe 2" apart?) all the way around the res bucket at the level of the 1" air gap, to allow freer air circulation. Any thoughts on that? Would I just be breeding mosquitos? Maybe I need to put goldfish in there....

Below are a couple of pics. So far I have the ProMix/Botanicare Coco blend in the wicks and bottom inch of the pots, and then a heavily amended FFOF/Happy Frog mix, with time release nutes and dolomite lime. There's another pic of some of the girls that will be going into the pots on Saturday (tomorrow its going to be 90º out, Saturday much cooler). 

I filled the res's and then added the layers and wet them down each time, and each time the water came out the overflow holes. So there is definitely significant amounts of leaching going on. I think I'm going to transplant, give them a good watering to make sure the soil is settled, and then dump the res's in my garden and refill them with fresh water. I'm concerned about leaving water with a lot of nutrients in it sitting in the res for several months. 

Another option is to just let it go. I'll get all kinds of life living in the res, but maybe that's OK. I could add a little Pond Zyme (still researching that) to keep things in check. The res's will (at least on the tall ones) be in the ground up to their overflow holes, so at least the water will be cool and out of the sun.


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## Tim Fox (May 12, 2016)

5 sips OUTDOORs under the big cob in the sky,, Wow, cant wait to see this grow


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## Evil-Mobo (May 13, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> I'm setting up my outdoor SIPs. I'm a little concerned, after doing my unintentional air stone vs no air stone test, that my outside res's won't have any forced air movement. A lot of the pre-manufactured SIPs (EarthBox etc) are all designed to be run outside, but they seem to have larger openings where the overflow is, its not just a 1/4" hole. One thing I'm considering is drilling holes (maybe 2" apart?) all the way around the res bucket at the level of the 1" air gap, to allow freer air circulation. Any thoughts on that? Would I just be breeding mosquitos? Maybe I need to put goldfish in there....
> 
> Below are a couple of pics. So far I have the ProMix/Botanicare Coco blend in the wicks and bottom inch of the pots, and then a heavily amended FFOF/Happy Frog mix, with time release nutes and dolomite lime. There's another pic of some of the girls that will be going into the pots on Saturday (tomorrow its going to be 90º out, Saturday much cooler).
> 
> ...



Plants look healthy bro. I would say swap the water as you stated better to be safe. I am curious how this works for you outdoors, I am waiting to do my own with the fabric pot for outside until I have more info. Hot as hell where I live too. 

I put my larger auto seedling outside today in its 5 gal short/wide nursery pot. We shall see how she does there. 

Keep up the good work


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## predd (May 27, 2016)

Thinking of giving an octopot a try.....I have a question about this system. Once the roots reach the water is the plant still feeding from the dirt?


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## Tim Fox (May 27, 2016)

predd said:


> Thinking of giving an octopot a try.....I have a question about this system. Once the roots reach the water is the plant still feeding from the dirt?


yes


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## Tim Fox (May 27, 2016)

ok, just for fun, i have been growing tomato plants in my earthbox SIP , these are only 3.5 weeks old, ( they started as 6 inch nursery plants),, they are in full on Beast Mode,, the stalk is super thick, and its already producing flowers,,


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## captainmorgan (Jun 3, 2016)

One of the Chaos is a male so I needed to pull him out of the flower area. My design was not working right,too much water to the plants. I think the cone was too big for the pot size and height, it was wicking too much water. I moved the male out and put the female in a regular octopot set up,will change the design and try again later on.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 3, 2016)

captainmorgan said:


> One of the Chaos is a male so I needed to pull him out of the flower area. My design was not working right,too much water to the plants. I think the cone was too big for the pot size and height, it was wicking too much water. I moved the male out and put the female in a regular octopot set up,will change the design and try again later on.


Keep us posted Cap, in the pdf instructions I have it warns of setup and too much watering being a bad thing, I think this is the Earthtainer pdf I was reading through today.


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## captainmorgan (Jun 3, 2016)

You can't just throw a small plant into a octopot and fill the res or you might drown it, I water with small amounts into the res at first till the plant gets more roots growing,once I see roots in the res it's usually ok to fill it. I've had a plant or two stall from too much water but they grow out of it quickly.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 3, 2016)

This is why I am curious what the sweet spot is, and also with the DIY SIP's for those of us who do not have octopots what will be the proper way to go from seed to harvest using a SIP for a plant............

So far I am at germination, plant in solo cup, transplant to 1-2 gallon pot, then transfer into my 5 gallon SIP..........would not mind from Solo cup to SIP which is what I did yesterday and we shall see how it works. There's got to be a sweet spot on the amount of water in the res where more is just not worth it and trouble, and less is not as effective.......

I think I'm going to try making a SIP soon with an 8 gallon square bucket setup as my 5 gallon currently is and see how that goes............ 

I also am curious to try a hydroponic style/coco SIP where you bottom feed the water with the nutes.....I know it goes back to mixing nutes with a soil less medium but curious if the plant will just suck everything up or pace itself on giving itself what it needs from the res without over doing it...........


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## Rocket Soul (Jun 10, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> ok, just for fun, i have been growing tomato plants in my earthbox SIP , these are only 3.5 weeks old, ( they started as 6 inch nursery plants),, they are in full on Beast Mode,, the stalk is super thick, and its already producing flowers,,


Hey Tim, these are my tomatos in a sip. Sitting there for about 2 weeks, love the way she grows, is already about twice the size as another bottom fed, but without wick, planted at aprox same time and size. Pics are a week ago, wick mecanism and today. Al that fruiting in 1 week. Behind i have my jasmine that was just about dead. Both sit in spanish sun allday, and loveing it, even if jasmine is sunshy. The smaller tomato cant take that amount of sun.

Also noticed something on in replanting the basils: both where rootbound but the one that had some arlite balls as bottom bed had a much nicer rootball, and few water roots even just a week from being in a semi sip. When transplanting all the balls just fall out and give your rootball a much nicer bottom with roots flowing rather than bunched up.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 10, 2016)

Rocket Soul said:


> Hey Tim, these are my tomatos in a sip. Sitting there for about 2 weeks, love the way she grows, is already about twice the size as another bottom fed, but without wick, planted at aprox same time and size. Pics are a week ago, wick mecanism and today. Al that fruiting in 1 week. Behind i have my jasmine that was just about dead. Both sit in spanish sun allday, and loveing it, even if jasmine is sunshy. The smaller tomato cant take that amount of sun.
> 
> Also noticed something on in replanting the basils: both where rootbound but the one that had some arlite balls as bottom bed had a much nicer rootball, and few water roots even just a week from being in a semi sip. When transplanting all the balls just fall out and give your rootball a much nicer bottom with roots flowing rather than bunched up.


i really dig your roof top garden,, awesome,, right in the middle of the city, and what a great view you have


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## Tim Fox (Jun 10, 2016)

5.5 weeks in the sip, put some items in the picture for scale, @Humanrob @Evil-Mobo 
another week and they will as tall as the shovel , they are already as tall as the trash can, center stalks are thick , the most beasty tomatos i have ever seen


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## Jp.the.pope (Jun 10, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> 5.5 weeks in the sip, put some items in the picture for scale, @Humanrob @Evil-Mobo
> another week and they will as tall as the shovel , they are already as tall as the trash can, center stalks are thick , the most beasty tomatos i have ever seen


Is that just 1 plant? Also did you use a wick or just layered substrate?


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## Tim Fox (Jun 10, 2016)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Is that just 1 plant? Also did you use a wick or just layered substrate?


that is 2 early girl tomato plants, they were planted on May 5th or so right in there,
this sip is called an "earthbox" they sale them on the internet ,, the wick is built into this one, it has 2 wicks one in each rear corner ,, the entire soil portion is filled with Fox Farms Ocean forrest soil,, with one cup of domolite lime about 1/3 the way up in the soil,, and then a trench of dry Happy Frog flower organic nutes, again about 1 cup was spread in the top 1/3 layer of soil,, and thats it,, no coco no fancy anything really,,,
and now just water the whole way,, there are lots of flowers on this thing and the main stalk at the soil level is impresive
I can hardly wait to grow POT in this Sip


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## Jp.the.pope (Jun 10, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> that is 2 early girl tomato plants, they were planted on May 5th or so right in there,
> this sip is called an "earthbox" they sale them on the internet ,, the wick is built into this one, it has 2 wicks one in each rear corner ,, the entire soil portion is filled with Fox Farms Ocean forrest soil,, with one cup of domolite lime about 1/3 the way up in the soil,, and then a trench of dry Happy Frog flower organic nutes, again about 1 cup was spread in the top 1/3 layer of soil,, and thats it,, no coco no fancy anything really,,,
> and now just water the whole way,, there are lots of flowers on this thing and the main stalk at the soil level is impresive
> I can hardly wait to grow POT in this Sip



Yea I ran out of room in my 6' x 4' raised beds and have 3 heirloom Sicillians I need to plant. Was going to make a sip this weekend.

You think you would put 3 in an earthbox, or not enough soil?

Looking amazing by the way 


I'm looking at making some 30 gallon sips for my indoor garden. I like the plans on albopepper.com

Great work Tim


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## Tim Fox (Jun 10, 2016)

the way its looking right now,, i would not put more than 2,, these plants are going to reach 6 feet tall,, i have no doubts, especially after seeing pictures of them on the internet and youtube, 
making outside sips is easy and cheap with storage tubs,, I want to make some more and grow bell peppers and hot peppers along side the tomatos, but I am going to just run the tomato this summer,, and be ready next year with a whole salsa garden in the driveway
what this grow is for me is a big Test Run of the sip before i put the earthbox into my grow cab this fall/winter


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 10, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> 5.5 weeks in the sip, put some items in the picture for scale, @Humanrob @Evil-Mobo
> another week and they will as tall as the shovel , they are already as tall as the trash can, center stalks are thick , the most beasty tomatos i have ever seen


It's looking good I am looking forward to your MMJ grow using this container


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## Humanrob (Jun 10, 2016)

Here's a current look at my outdoor SIPs. I won't know until the final weigh in how they did, but so far they're all alive and well. Four of the five are from clones, one is from a seed. The one from seed (an LSD) has twice the mass of the others, as plants from seeds tend to. I have another LSD in a 15 gallon cloth pot, they are similar in size, that will be the only interesting (somewhat) direct comparison -- a SIP with a 10 gallon pot over a 5 gallon res vs a 15 gallon pot (assuming both turn out to be girls and go the distance). For what its worth, they are both cloth pots.

Here's the LSD in the SIP and the one in the pot. The 15g cloth pot is nested in a larger plastic one sunk into the ground, and the SIPs res is similarly dropped into the ground up to the overflow hole.
 

This shot shows the LSD from seed on the right, and a Jillybean from a clone on the left. Big difference. The LSD literally drinks twice as much as the others.


Gray pot is a Gorilla Glue #4, the next one (wrapped in burlap) is a Jillybean, after that is a Bruce Banner #3. 

The BB is in one of the first SIPs I made, a #7 pot slid into a 5 gallon res bucket, it only holds about 1.5 gallons of water. I have two that size but I doubt I'll use those again for cannabis, maybe next year for tomatoes or something else. This year they hold clones from the indoor I'm currently running, so they were the lowest priority and got the small container experiment.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 10, 2016)

Nice!


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## Tim Fox (Jun 17, 2016)

@Organja more sips


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## Humanrob (Jun 17, 2016)

captainmorgan said:


> My design was not working right,too much water to the plants. I think the cone was too big for the pot size and height, it was wicking too much water. I moved the male out and put the female in a regular octopot set up,will change the design and try again later on.





captainmorgan said:


> You can't just throw a small plant into a octopot and fill the res or you might drown it, I water with small amounts into the res at first till the plant gets more roots growing,once I see roots in the res it's usually ok to fill it. I've had a plant or two stall from too much water but they grow out of it quickly.


Hey Capt., @SomeGuy was saying something similar about making a wick that was too big proportionally to the soil in the pot. It seems in the beginning everyone was thinking more is better, and we found the point of diminishing returns and then negative feedback. You mention that one plant stalled from too much water, where there any other symptoms/issues? Any chance you took any pics along the way? It would be great to have a visual (or even a description) of the pot size, res size, and wick size that turned out to be out of sync. 

I'm starting to think that shorter wider res's make more sense -- a 5 gallon rubbermaid being better than a 5 gallon paint bucket. I've got five outside right now working from 5 gallon paint buckets, if summer ever gets here I'll see whether the long wicks will be able to pull enough water against the sustained drying power of the sun. I'm not opposed to top watering with the outdoor, the res is mostly for water roots there. Indoor, I'd like to get the wicking as efficient and balanced as possible and 100% res feed if I can.


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## SomeGuy (Jun 17, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> Hey Capt., @SomeGuy was saying something similar about making a wick that was too big proportionally to the soil in the pot. It seems in the beginning everyone was thinking more is better, and we found the point of diminishing returns and then negative feedback. You mention that one plant stalled from too much water, where there any other symptoms/issues? Any chance you took any pics along the way? It would be great to have a visual (or even a description) of the pot size, res size, and wick size that turned out to be out of sync.
> 
> I'm starting to think that shorter wider res's make more sense -- a 5 gallon rubbermaid being better than a 5 gallon paint bucket. I've got five outside right now working from 5 gallon paint buckets, if summer ever gets here I'll see whether the long wicks will be able to pull enough water against the sustained drying power of the sun. I'm not opposed to top watering with the outdoor, the res is mostly for water roots there. Indoor, I'd like to get the wicking as efficient and balanced as possible and 100% res feed if possible.



Yup. Lol. A little Rubbermaid is where I was gonna go w my smaller ones. The big ones work awesome so not changing just improving those.


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## Humanrob (Jun 17, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> Yup. Lol. A little Rubbermaid is where I was gonna go w my smaller ones. The big ones work awesome so not changing just improving those.


I'm looking forward to hearing -- as our collective experience increases -- if there are res sizes which can become too big. I'm wondering if at some point X number of standing gallons of water invites its own issues, that a smaller res that is drained (by the plant) and refilled more frequently would avoid? Time will tell. IIRC SomeGuy, you are a big fan of maximum air stones?  It seems like its keeping your water clean so that's a good thing, and I think you have the biggest res capacity I've read about so far. 

Am I the only one using Pond-Zyme? LOL I can't wait to open these things up and see what's in them....
As it stands my next grow will be a pair of 5 or 7 gallon cloth pots over 10gallon Rubbermaid bins. If I can get a second tent going, I already have two 5 gallon pots over 3.5 gallon buckets that I'll use in that one.


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## JorgeGonzales (Jul 27, 2016)

Earthboxes very cheap on Amazon right now, ~$30 w/free shipping. Limit 3 per customer.

@Tim Fox what are those tomatoes looking like now? I planted two 5 gallon DIY sips at the end of June, really late in the season here. Four cuke seedlings in one, a banana pepper in another and I've already made a couple quarts of bread and butter pickles with them.


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## Tim Fox (Aug 1, 2016)

JorgeGonzales said:


> Earthboxes very cheap on Amazon right now, ~$30 w/free shipping. Limit 3 per customer.
> 
> @Tim Fox what are those tomatoes looking like now? I planted two 5 gallon DIY sips at the end of June, really late in the season here. Four cuke seedlings in one, a banana pepper in another and I've already made a couple quarts of bread and butter pickles with them.


the tomato plants grew to be 6 feet tall, and are absolute beasts!! i just picked my first ripe one and its the size of a small baseball , there are probably 20 - 30 tomatos all around the plant and many more bud/blossom sites yet to grow fruit, i have a good feeling there will be lots of salsa and gazpacho around here for the month of august, I have been dealing with some calcium imbalance I noticed it on 2 of the oldest tomatos and google led me to what was wrong, so i am adding Cal mag to my res now, and I am adding some GH flora veg, hahah,, , so its good practice for the sip MJ grow this fall/winter in the sip,, at least i know i can ad nutes to the res if needed I have also been using a trick the hempy bucket guys use and flush the res probably once a week to wash it out , the refill the res with clean water , so far so good


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## JorgeGonzales (Aug 1, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> the tomato plants grew to be 6 feet tall, and are absolute beasts!! i just picked my first ripe one and its the size of a small baseball , there are probably 20 - 30 tomatos all around the plant and many more bud/blossom sites yet to grow fruit, i have a good feeling there will be lots of salsa and gazpacho around here for the month of august, I have been dealing with some calcium imbalance I noticed it on 2 of the oldest tomatos and google led me to what was wrong, so i am adding Cal mag to my res now, and I am adding some GH flora veg, hahah,, , so its good practice for the sip MJ grow this fall/winter in the sip,, at least i know i can ad nutes to the res if needed I have also been using a trick the hempy bucket guys use and flush the res probably once a week to wash it out , the refill the res with clean water , so far so good


That's exactly what I'm doing, Tim. Organic granular ferts mixed into the soil up top, and a weak Dyna Gro mix for the rez the last few weeks just for fun. A flush and fresh water every week or so, just in case. It stayed ~100F for a week straight here and everything stayed healthy, unlike my in-the-dirt stuff.

I ordered half a dozen of the Earthboxes at $29 each shipped for winter, and an extra one to try in my tent inside for my first indoor soil grow. Hopefully they work as well as the buckets.

Did you mix in any dolomite when you planted? Calcium and magnesium, but I wonder about bioavailability.

This was a seedling 8 weeks ago, second big flush coming in. Had a rough start with insect damage, got a bit leggy since I had to bring it inside early on during insane temps, but it just shakes it all off and keeps going:


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## Tim Fox (Aug 1, 2016)

I put straight FFOF into the bottom of the earthbox and put in a good layer of domolite lime, and another layer of ffof and then a row of happy frog flower nute for MJ,, and then topped with final layer of FFOF ,, and where i fell I went wrong was the happy frog nute,, its what i had on hand from my last MJ grow and so i just used it,, now I am paying the price because I think the happy frog didnt really have what the tomato is craving, , live and learn,, next summer I want to another tomato grow and see if there is something better to you,, like maybe tomato tone ?? how is that stuff working out for you?>,,, 
i am rotating the cal mag and GH maxi grow about every third watering,, 
they are drinking some days 2 gallons,, and other days 1.5 gallons , so i have to stay kinda close to them and or get my son to water if I am out of town,, and since I am not doing an MJ grow this summer I have been really enjoying doing some weekend get aways, 
I need to find a way to extend the Res on the earthbox, and there is a video on youtube of a guy using a seperate container next to his earht box and then just putting a small hose out the earthbox over flow slot, and up and over into the other container and gravity keeps them the same level, I want to find a container that will set next to the earthbox inside of my grow cab so i can make the res upwards of 5 gallons??,,, i hope i hope


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## JorgeGonzales (Aug 1, 2016)

The tomato tone has been good, but I'm using it on cucumbers and peppers in the SIPs, top dressing in the dirt, and adding a little extra like I said. The word on the street at the Earthbox forums is that organics ferts might give up a little too early in the season compared to synthetics.

I was planning on doing something similar to extend the reservoir. A siphon will work fine as long as it stays submerged on both ends, just stick something like a 10 gallon rubbermaid next to it and go to town, should add another few gallons. Actually I can try that really easily with what I have on hand here. Just takes some tubing down the fill hole and something to stick extra water in. I'm filling these stupid buckets every morning.

If you wanted to auto-water you can use a float valve in the external container. I was hoping to do that with a gravity fed barrel outside my tent. Outside in the garden, a hose connection and ferts injector to accomplish the same thing. We'll see. But the mini floats are only $10, a cheap experiment.


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## BM9AGS (Aug 1, 2016)

@SomeGuy 
Can we get an update on your sip grow room


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## Tim Fox (Aug 1, 2016)

JorgeGonzales said:


> The tomato tone has been good, but I'm using it on cucumbers and peppers in the SIPs, top dressing in the dirt, and adding a little extra like I said. The word on the street at the Earthbox forums is that organics ferts might give up a little too early in the season compared to synthetics.
> 
> I was planning on doing something similar to extend the reservoir. A siphon will work fine as long as it stays submerged on both ends, just stick something like a 10 gallon rubbermaid next to it and go to town, should add another few gallons. Actually I can try that really easily with what I have on hand here. Just takes some tubing down the fill hole and something to stick extra water in. I'm filling these stupid buckets every morning.
> 
> If you wanted to auto-water you can use a float valve in the external container. I was hoping to do that with a gravity fed barrel outside my tent. Outside in the garden, a hose connection and ferts injector to accomplish the same thing. We'll see. But the mini floats are only $10, a cheap experiment.


if you have multiple sip buckets you could use a storage tub and run a hose to every 5 gallon to the same storage tub and use it like a master res, and you would only have to fill the one external res, and it would satisfy all the other sips, that way if one plant drinks more, it can borrow from the others,, hum,, i like that idea,, for next years outdoor garden, 
for now I just need a single container to place next to the earth box for my indoor MJ grow this winter,, 
I was telling my wife that if my tomato plant were my indoor MJ the grow would be over, and the nute would have made it,, , but its so good ot know that adding cal mag and or nutes to the res works, 
since tomato tone is a organic dry nute,,, what type of synthetic would you recommend,, and is that the same as the salt types?


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## SomeGuy (Aug 1, 2016)

BM9AGS said:


> @SomeGuy
> Can we get an update on your sip grow room



Yeah. I harvested 3.5lbs from it before summer grow started. . They work awesome. Try and remember to take one of the indoor that just went to bloom a week ago.


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## Tim Fox (Aug 1, 2016)

JorgeGonzales said:


> That's exactly what I'm doing, Tim. Organic granular ferts mixed into the soil up top, and a weak Dyna Gro mix for the rez the last few weeks just for fun. A flush and fresh water every week or so, just in case. It stayed ~100F for a week straight here and everything stayed healthy, unlike my in-the-dirt stuff.
> 
> I ordered half a dozen of the Earthboxes at $29 each shipped for winter, and an extra one to try in my tent inside for my first indoor soil grow. Hopefully they work as well as the buckets.
> 
> ...


Here it is


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## BM9AGS (Aug 1, 2016)

Earth box or octopots? Which should I get?


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## JorgeGonzales (Aug 1, 2016)

BM9AGS said:


> Earth box or octopots? Which should I get?


I'd build something like @SomeGuy before buying octopots. I was picking @Thorhax 's brain too recently, he has one 3 gallon soft pot on each reservoir, 6" netpot in the bottom. 

Or something with 5 gallon buckets? It's such a simple concept, you can literally just put one bucket inside another, 3 inch netpot in the inner bucket, maybe drill holes in the floor to let the roots grow out of. The buckets would do best with some sort of larger controller reservoir though, otherwise you only end up with a gallon or less in each, which can get sucked up pretty fast, at least judging by how much a DWC can drink.

The Earthbox is $36 on Amazon right now, good for two plants spaced about 2 feet apart. They are pretty big, 2 cu ft of soil. I haven't seen any grows with them, but I haven't really looked.


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## BM9AGS (Aug 1, 2016)

JorgeGonzales said:


> I'd build something like @SomeGuy before buying octopots. I was picking @Thorhax 's brain too recently, he has one 3 gallon soft pot on each reservoir, 6" netpot in the bottom.
> 
> Or something with 5 gallon buckets? It's such a simple concept, you can literally just put one bucket inside another, 3 inch netpot in the inner bucket, maybe drill holes in the floor to let the roots grow out of. The buckets would do best with some sort of larger controller reservoir though, otherwise you only end up with a gallon or less in each, which can get sucked up pretty fast, at least judging by how much a DWC can drink.
> 
> The Earthbox is $36 on Amazon right now, good for two plants spaced about 2 feet apart. They are pretty big, 2 cu ft of soil. I haven't seen any grows with them, but I haven't really looked.


Yeah DIY is always better but I'm gonna be away so I handed my lights and plants off to an experienced grower and I still want to experiment even if it's virtually through him. So I'm getting more LEDs and want to try this sip system and don't want to over burden the guy growing my experiments. I put the 16 cxb unit in with a 1k hid and wow 3500 isn't nearly as red as HPS. But the 800w of cobs crushes the foot print of that 1k hid light


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## Tim Fox (Aug 2, 2016)

BM9AGS said:


> Earth box or octopots? Which should I get?


I think it depends on the size of your grow space, and what fits in your space shape the best, I would much prefer a larger res, if pot plants drink like the tomato does, there is a good chance a person would need to water daily later when the plants are big, I do believe the store bought octopots have a bigger res than the earthbox? I used to know,, kinda forgot, hahha


JorgeGonzales said:


> I'd build something like @SomeGuy before buying octopots. I was picking @Thorhax 's brain too recently, he has one 3 gallon soft pot on each reservoir, 6" netpot in the bottom.
> 
> Or something with 5 gallon buckets? It's such a simple concept, you can literally just put one bucket inside another, 3 inch netpot in the inner bucket, maybe drill holes in the floor to let the roots grow out of. The buckets would do best with some sort of larger controller reservoir though, otherwise you only end up with a gallon or less in each, which can get sucked up pretty fast, at least judging by how much a DWC can drink.
> 
> The Earthbox is $36 on Amazon right now, good for two plants spaced about 2 feet apart. They are pretty big, 2 cu ft of soil. I haven't seen any grows with them, but I haven't really looked.


I completely agree, DIY is awesome, I tried and tried to find storage tubs that were short and compact because of my limited height in my grow cab, I ended up with the earth box due to its 11 inch height and the width was perfect for my grow cab, and the glove fit so to speak!!! 
but now i will have to extend the res, but that shouldnt be to hard, I just need to get on the band wagon in september and go shopping for the right size container to extend the res, i just dont have allot of left over floor space,, i was considering actually gluing together some plexi / acrylic like they do for fish tanks ,, but not until i have exhausted the search for something already made, I was already eye balling a kitchen trash can,, tall and narrow,, and i could cut off the top and be left with something that might work, 
I am really impressed with @SomeGuy and his Res size, the ability to only water once a week or 5 days would be outstanding!


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## Rocket Soul (Aug 2, 2016)

Hi sipers. I think i had this doc from @hyroots thread, quite interesting. What i made from it: u need good access to your ress and the possibility to raise or lower it in comparison to your wick. This may not apply to how people use sips here cause this guy (ppk writer)) tries to avoid water roots, but what he says is the amount of wick under water doesnt really matter, its the length of wick the water needs to traverse to reach the grow pot that matters. Overwet: lower the ress, dry vice versa. Also interesting theory about hydralic distribution, with references so looks pretty kosher. Its a good read.


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## Rocket Soul (Aug 2, 2016)

So this fall when i might finally build a proper growspace: will have a grow tent on top of a wooden stand/table thing, with holes for the wicks in the wooden board. The stand will be about 12-16 inches, and underneath i can access the separate resevoirs, lowering or raising or even exchangeing to diffrent size if i wanna. They will be smaller than most on here, maybe with a automated filling system using pump with a larger separate master ress on the side
+ Can make full change and clean the ress. This will enable me to do teas for organic soil without fear of funny stuff in the ress. Also able to change the size of ress or how effective the wick is by lowering/raising. Also ress is outside grow enviroment.
- need to make holes in the tent for the wicks might lead to smells.AAnyone can see any other drawbacks, please comment, as me's a self-confessed noob.
Also (shoulda said before everything) im after an organic soil system where nutes are in the soil but to have the possibility to add teas and liquid nutes in case the soil runs out. Also looking into high brix which i believe can only be done with nutrient drenches which would hard with no access ress. What you think?


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## Rocket Soul (Aug 2, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> Here it is


Love ur tomato setup, really nice setup with the trellis. Mine are prob dead by now as i left it to less than reliables.oh well,next summer


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## JorgeGonzales (Aug 2, 2016)

@Tim Fox Thats why I like the gravity fed float idea, you can use a space saving water container, something skinny and tall, and just keep the level constant with a small controller res just big enough for the float valve. Actually there's always the earthbox automatic watering system, too. I think that goes straight down the watering pipe.


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## Rocket Soul (Aug 2, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> I think it depends on the size of your grow space, and what fits in your space shape the best, I would much prefer a larger res, if pot plants drink like the tomato does, there is a good chance a person would need to water daily later when the plants are big, I do believe the store bought octopots have a bigger res than the earthbox? I used to know,, kinda forgot, hahha
> 
> I completely agree, DIY is awesome, I tried and tried to find storage tubs that were short and compact because of my limited height in my grow cab, I ended up with the earth box due to its 11 inch height and the width was perfect for my grow cab, and the glove fit so to speak!!!
> but now i will have to extend the res, but that shouldnt be to hard, I just need to get on the band wagon in september and go shopping for the right size container to extend the res, i just dont have allot of left over floor space,, i was considering actually gluing together some plexi / acrylic like they do for fish tanks ,, but not until i have exhausted the search for something already made, I was already eye balling a kitchen trash can,, tall and narrow,, and i could cut off the top and be left with something that might work,
> I am really impressed with @SomeGuy and his Res size, the ability to only water once a week or 5 days would be outstanding!


Im not all that keen on the big ress, but eachone to his own. I think its pretty easy to setup a pump for watering and dial in how much to water everyday with enough precision to be able to leave a few days to a week. Small ress will be easier to handle as above, also i recon a shallower (and maybe wider) ress will have more oxygen for those of us that dont have an option for bubbling 24/7 (nosy neighbours). I think the major benefits with sips is emulating groundwater for emulating nature and letting the plant drink as it needs, no over underwatering (if u can get the wick right). But i guess its up to eachone, and everything should be tried 

Edit I do like the idea of master ress just that if you gravity feed it it would have to be very wide to acomodate enough water. Also if you have connected to sorta all share the same water, if you have problem in 1 ress you may have problem in all. Maybe easier with one ress for all of them if they are all part of the same comunicating watermass?


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## SomeGuy (Aug 2, 2016)

Rocket Soul said:


> Im not all that keen on the big ress, but eachone to his own. I think its pretty easy to setup a pump for watering and dial in how much to water everyday with enough precision to be able to leave a few days to a week. Small ress will be easier to handle as above, also i recon a shallower (and maybe wider) ress will have more oxygen for those of us that dont have an option for bubbling 24/7 (nosy neighbours). I think the major benefits with sips is emulating groundwater for emulating nature and letting the plant drink as it needs, no over underwatering (if u can get the wick right). But i guess its up to eachone, and everything should be tried
> 
> Edit I do like the idea of master ress just that if you gravity feed it it would have to be very wide to acomodate enough water. Also if you have connected to sorta all share the same water, if you have problem in 1 ress you may have problem in all. Maybe easier with one ress for all of them if they are all part of the same comunicating watermass?


FYI, A larger rez eliminates root problems for the most part. larger bodies of water stay cooler and administering a zyme product to the rez would help. However, constant addition of new water weekly or every other week as needed helps to freshen up the rez. All mine were perfectly clean and water has a soil type smell to it. The large octopots work very well. In fact. I have some setup with two 5gl smartpots on top and two of those in a 4x4 would produce all you would want.

Ill snap some photos tonight of my setup. I am only running half my setup in summer since i grow outside but what matters is the individual sip tech.


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## SomeGuy (Aug 2, 2016)

also, virtually any system can be setup to autofeed from a larger rez using a controller. I prefer mine setup with big tubs so that I dont have those connections and potential for leaks.


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## BM9AGS (Aug 2, 2016)

Good info brother! Thanks


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## Rocket Soul (Aug 2, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> FYI, A larger rez eliminates root problems for the most part. larger bodies of water stay cooler and administering a zyme product to the rez would help. However, constant addition of new water weekly or every other week as needed helps to freshen up the rez. All mine were perfectly clean and water has a soil type smell to it. The large octopots work very well. In fact. I have some setup with two 5gl smartpots on top and two of those in a 4x4 would produce all you would want.
> 
> Ill snap some photos tonight of my setup. I am only running half my setup in summer since i grow outside but what matters is the individual sip tech.


Thanks for the info. My knowledge is limited to my reasoning and my non-mj outdoor garden. The 4x4 is the exact size im planning on so very appreciated  i need a solution where i can avoid bubbling and airstones and from checking out the octopots i reasoned that a shallower ress with a large surface is a win for oxygen. Do you have any feedback regards to wicks, ress and being able to raise and lower the water level to adapt the watering level of your pot? Or having several plants drinking from the same ress? Seeing youve had success with this im eager to pick ur brain. And i love your "sticky forrest"


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## SomeGuy (Aug 2, 2016)

It is so much more effective when I can take someone into my garden and show them personally. I kind of guessed on water level my first run with the sips and adjusted a bit this round. leaving a bit more air space in the rez. I have a cone shaped wick which is just graduated netpots ziptied together. Its filled with just peet. even when water is down to just a few inches in the tub its still wicking and keeps the medium watered. I do notice that when I first fill up from that low the bottoms of the softpots get a little more moist but still the growth of the plants says they are happy. So IMO, hard to over water. 

This round I have already top fed labs by moistening the entire top layer of soil and then putting two quarts of lab mix on each one. Has worked great also. My wick has roots like crazy but i am aerating with stones. IMO you can make an air pump run pretty quiet. as a matter of fact with the fan etc.. going the air pump is the quietest thing running. LOL

when I pulled things apart last round the roots in the rez where essentially knoted around each airstone. So this time I added many more per tub. Its working great..


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## JorgeGonzales (Aug 2, 2016)

There's also these autopots: 

I've seen them on sale cheap sometimes, 12 gallon reservoir, but the whole autofill system looks super fiddly.

What's cool is that you can obviously fill SIPs with inert media, even pure hydroton, feed from the bottom and keep a steady water level without any oxygen or pythium problems, which makes me think hempies don't need to dry out, or even be fed from the top or need any percentage of overflow. Also, earthbox recommends soil ferts, octopot recommends liquid ferts, and they are the same thing at the end of the day. Lots of flexibility in these, and somewhere in there is the perfect system


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## Rocket Soul (Aug 3, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> It is so much more effective when I can take someone into my garden and show them personally. I kind of guessed on water level my first run with the sips and adjusted a bit this round. leaving a bit more air space in the rez. I have a cone shaped wick which is just graduated netpots ziptied together. Its filled with just peet. even when water is down to just a few inches in the tub its still wicking and keeps the medium watered. I do notice that when I first fill up from that low the bottoms of the softpots get a little more moist but still the growth of the plants says they are happy. So IMO, hard to over water.
> 
> This round I have already top fed labs by moistening the entire top layer of soil and then putting two quarts of lab mix on each one. Has worked great also. My wick has roots like crazy but i am aerating with stones.  IMO you can make an air pump run pretty quiet. as a matter of fact with the fan etc.. going the air pump is the quietest thing running. LOL
> 
> when I pulled things apart last round the roots in the rez where essentially knoted around each airstone. So this time I added many more per tub. Its working great..


I suppose plenty of airstones make up for probs with wicks overwatering the softpot. But the place im starting my grow is on top of my neighbours bedroom so i gotta be a bit carefull. Or maybe find a way of managing my neighbour cause she seems quite nice, if only i could bribe her with bud...


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## BM9AGS (Aug 3, 2016)

Rocket Soul said:


> I suppose plenty of airstones make up for probs with wicks overwatering the softpot. But the place im starting my grow is on top of my neighbours bedroom so i gotta be a bit carefull. Or maybe find a way of managing my neighbour cause she seems quite nice, if only i could bribe her with bud...


Take a bottle of wine to her and take a viagra.


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## Tim Fox (Aug 3, 2016)

JorgeGonzales said:


> @Tim Fox Thats why I like the gravity fed float idea, you can use a space saving water container, something skinny and tall, and just keep the level constant with a small controller res just big enough for the float valve. Actually there's always the earthbox automatic watering system, too. I think that goes straight down the watering pipe.


 i am temped to try the float res idea,, but i am afraid of flooding the carpet in my bedroom,, right now the sips are fool proof, they cant leak,, its impossible and a gravity level external res is pretty safe also,, if I go with the float valve and the tall trash can n ext to the earthbox, if the float fails then the whole external res over flows onto the carpet,, the wife would kill me,, I wonder what the chance of failure is with the float,, and do you have a link to the float valve you recomend,, 
thanks


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## Tim Fox (Aug 3, 2016)

SomeGuy said:


> It is so much more effective when I can take someone into my garden and show them personally. I kind of guessed on water level my first run with the sips and adjusted a bit this round. leaving a bit more air space in the rez. I have a cone shaped wick which is just graduated netpots ziptied together. Its filled with just peet. even when water is down to just a few inches in the tub its still wicking and keeps the medium watered. I do notice that when I first fill up from that low the bottoms of the softpots get a little more moist but still the growth of the plants says they are happy. So IMO, hard to over water.
> 
> This round I have already top fed labs by moistening the entire top layer of soil and then putting two quarts of lab mix on each one. Has worked great also. My wick has roots like crazy but i am aerating with stones. IMO you can make an air pump run pretty quiet. as a matter of fact with the fan etc.. going the air pump is the quietest thing running. LOL
> 
> when I pulled things apart last round the roots in the rez where essentially knoted around each airstone. So this time I added many more per tub. Its working great..


@Humanrob found the same thing when he took his indoor sip apart, the roots were all wrapped around the airstone

right now I am torn between using or not using an airstone?,, my outdoor tomato plant is in the earthbox with no airstone and is growing like the weed from outter space,, just going nuts,, but seeing your results from the last grow has me conflicted on what to do concerning air stones,,,


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## Humanrob (Aug 3, 2016)

I've either moved or transplanted a few of my outdoor sips, and even after months of growing there have been almost zero roots outside of the wick. I always thought that "water roots" were the ones that were free-floating in the water, but I guess the ones that are in the always-wet wick are also considered water roots? In the outdoor one I transplanted and the indoor ones that finished, the wicks were full of roots. But the ONLY roots I had in the res water outside of the wick were in the columns of bubbles created by air stones. I'm not sure if those roots are "better" in some way? Or maybe its just a matter of the more roots the better?


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## Tim Fox (Aug 3, 2016)

JorgeGonzales said:


> There's also these autopots: View attachment 3747956
> 
> I've seen them on sale cheap sometimes, 12 gallon reservoir, but the whole autofill system looks super fiddly.
> 
> What's cool is that you can obviously fill SIPs with inert media, even pure hydroton, feed from the bottom and keep a steady water level without any oxygen or pythium problems, which makes me think hempies don't need to dry out, or even be fed from the top or need any percentage of overflow. Also, earthbox recommends soil ferts, octopot recommends liquid ferts, and they are the same thing at the end of the day. Lots of flexibility in these, and somewhere in there is the perfect system


your posts have really got me thinking today ( I know dangerous),, so here is what I have pieced together, a 1/4" mini adjustable float valve for the control res, 
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=74619
then, this container ( or something simular) for the control res , install the float valve in this in front of the earthbox https://www.amazon.com/Rubbermaid-21-Cup-Dry-Food-Container/dp/B003EYUZJU/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1470243203&sr=8-8&keywords=Tall+Plastic+Storage+Containers
and the res is a tall skinny dog food storage container,, its only 6 inches wide and 14 inches tall, should hold several gallons of water, and will just barely be taller than th e earthbox,, https://www.chewy.com/bergan-smart-storage-small/dp/39931?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=Bergan&utm_term=&gclid=CNaB6prZpc4CFY-Bfgod7tEHYA

i have enough floor space to fit all this in, and park my little fan on the floor, and an air pump also if i go that route

and I almost forgot, i have a large flat storage tub that i purchased way back when I was thinking of going hydro, and it fits the entire floor of my grow cab,, i need to go dig it out of the barn, and see about installing it, ,i would need to redo my air intake, but if i set the earthbox inside of this tub and the res ,, should the valve fail, the storage tub may be able to hold all the water, sure it would flood the sip up several inches,, but it would keep the water from flooding my carpet in the bedroom


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## JorgeGonzales (Aug 3, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> i am temped to try the float res idea,, but i am afraid of flooding the carpet in my bedroom,, right now the sips are fool proof, they cant leak,, its impossible and a gravity level external res is pretty safe also,, if I go with the float valve and the tall trash can n ext to the earthbox, if the float fails then the whole external res over flows onto the carpet,, the wife would kill me,, I wonder what the chance of failure is with the float,, and do you have a link to the float valve you recomend,,
> thanks


Here is what I've seen people use with homemade SIPs: https://www.amazon.com/Kerick-Valve-MAB22-Adjustable-Barbed/dp/B0077RB0LC

They make different mini valves with inlet different connections, some adjustable, some not. 

But I have a DIY float valve setup here, active with solenoids, and it uses two valves, one valve to set the level, and another installed above the water line as an emergency shutoff if the main valve fails. This is common in aquariums. It could be done with the Kericks if there was any kind of outlet connector, but I don't think there is a way to daisy chain them.

Mine has been hooked up to my RO/DI for like 7 years, even on vacation, and never failed. It's also been so long I forget where I bought it 

Guess my point is, outside a Kerick will work, inside you probably want something more sophisticated, unless there is a clever way to daisy chain the passive float valves and have one function as a shutoff.


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## Tim Fox (Aug 3, 2016)

JorgeGonzales said:


> Here is what I've seen people use with homemade SIPs: https://www.amazon.com/Kerick-Valve-MAB22-Adjustable-Barbed/dp/B0077RB0LC
> 
> They make different mini valves with inlet different connections, some adjustable, some not.
> 
> ...


Thank you


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## JorgeGonzales (Aug 3, 2016)

I thought about this a little more, searched for some DC water pump setups, and here is a graphic blantantly ripped off from nano-reef.com:


This is different than what I do, but the same concepts on the floats. That's two float switches, which can be cheap as something like these, which are $1 each on eBay:


And a DC pump, like my cat fountains use, like these:



The diagram shows bent acrylic, but even PVC pipe could work. Mount the inside your controller res, first switch alway on, second switch is wired after that and is your water level, turns on when it drops. Everything runs off one 12V wall wart.

Anyway, that's the general idea. And I just figured out what I'll do inside, since this doesn't require any tricky holes to drill and waterproof like gravity fed does, just some mildly annoying wires, and a DC pump strong enough to get over the hump. Outside leaks really are a lot less scary.


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## Rocket Soul (Aug 3, 2016)

BM9AGS said:


> Take a bottle of wine to her and take a viagra.


Ultimate sacrifice on the altar of dank...=lets say not that into her would be a whale of an understatement


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## BM9AGS (Aug 3, 2016)

Rocket Soul said:


> Ultimate sacrifice on the altar of dank...=lets say not that into her would be a whale of an understatement


Ehh. I can't stand big ones. The dank gods would remember your ultimate sacrifice....tho I'd tell them to fuck off


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## hyroot (Aug 3, 2016)

I hand water . But I have a drain so I don't over water and I keep that air gap



If you add compost teas to the resi you want to hand water

If you don't have air stones and use labs in the resi you want to hand water. You don't want any agitation. That's no good for labs.


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## ttystikk (Aug 3, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> i am temped to try the float res idea,, but i am afraid of flooding the carpet in my bedroom,, right now the sips are fool proof, they cant leak,, its impossible and a gravity level external res is pretty safe also,, if I go with the float valve and the tall trash can n ext to the earthbox, if the float fails then the whole external res over flows onto the carpet,, the wife would kill me,, I wonder what the chance of failure is with the float,, and do you have a link to the float valve you recomend,,
> thanks


The way to outwit this problem is to size your tubsites so they can collectively handle the entire contents of the res in case the float valve fails. Temporarily flooding the roots is better than irrigating your bedroom floor, lol


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## ttystikk (Aug 3, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> I've either moved or transplanted a few of my outdoor sips, and even after months of growing there have been almost zero roots outside of the wick. I always thought that "water roots" were the ones that were free-floating in the water, but I guess the ones that are in the always-wet wick are also considered water roots? In the outdoor one I transplanted and the indoor ones that finished, the wicks were full of roots. But the ONLY roots I had in the res water outside of the wick were in the columns of bubbles created by air stones. I'm not sure if those roots are "better" in some way? Or maybe its just a matter of the more roots the better?


I'm getting water roots coming out of the bottoms of my 5 gallon buckets into the partially flooded tubs they're sitting in. I use waterfall aeration and circulation, and things sure look happy so far.


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## Cornishi (Aug 13, 2016)

Just got myself 10 buckets, a hole saw, some 40mm pipe and ordered some 6inch net pots. Gonna make me some epic sip's!!
Tempted to do a 50/50 mix of john innes compost and perlite.
Also planning to put air stones in all buckets to aid in root health.


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## FullCarve (Sep 8, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> I'm setting up my outdoor SIPs. I'm a little concerned, after doing my unintentional air stone vs no air stone test, that my outside res's won't have any forced air movement. A lot of the pre-manufactured SIPs (EarthBox etc) are all designed to be run outside, but they seem to have larger openings where the overflow is, its not just a 1/4" hole. One thing I'm considering is drilling holes (maybe 2" apart?) all the way around the res bucket at the level of the 1" air gap, to allow freer air circulation. Any thoughts on that? Would I just be breeding mosquitos? Maybe I need to put goldfish in there....



Hi Rob,

I am pretty interested in this idea.

especially, 

"One thing I'm considering is drilling holes (maybe 2" apart?) all the way around the res bucket at the level of the 1" air gap, to allow freer air circulation. "


I have searched for many times for this set up but here all seem just use a resi with a couple overflow holes only and with airstones.
your idea looks pretty effective but i wonder why not many ppl won't implement this idea???

I assume:

1. May too many side air holes for aeration cause bugs/mosquito issues???
-> Then why not just patch over the mosquito screens so that it won't let any thing into the resi but still let the air in?

2. May cause too fast dry out the water in the resi??

3. Already the airstones in the the resi create enough air(Oxygen) for the roots?
->But from my understanding... if the resi is almost completely sealed, with that stuck air inside the resi, how does it work to create oxygen????

4. Too many air holes on the side of the resi may cause the lights come through in and cause some light exposure???


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## Humanrob (Sep 8, 2016)

There is a fork in the road with SIPs, and two schools of thought. Some people simply want a "self watering" system, so that the soil is consistently moist and they can go away for periods of time without having to worry about watering. Others seem to want a hydro/soil blend, to get the best of both worlds in terms of benefits. If you want the latter, then using an airstone is the only way to go (IMO).

I have not used an airstone in any of my outdoor SIPs, I decided not to run extension cords all over the back yard (I will _always_ use them indoors). When I pulled apart a SIP mid-season, there were almost no roots at all growing in the water, and from last winter's indoor, the only roots growing in the water were around the airstone. So, my outdoor SIPs are just a way of keeping the plants at an even and consistent level of moisture. That in itself enhances growth to some degree, it seems, but not nearly as much as when an airstone is introduced.

I did drill 1/4" holes 2-3" apart around the air zone between the water and the soil. I've had to move a couple of my SIP plants around the garden, as plans have changed or I've noticed spots with better sun exposure. When I've pulled them apart, there are usually slugs inside, and various other bugs. Nothing I would call an infestation or a problem, its a garden, there are bugs everywhere. A couple of times when filling the SIPs I've noticed as the water inside rose towards the overfill hole, gnats would come out the hole as if the water was chasing them. I hate gnats (residual from indoor grow issues early on), but even they were only a temporary problem. If I don't top water the SIPs, the gnats don't survive.

I've only begun experimenting with SIPs. I will continue to use them indoors, but I'm not sure if I'll run them again outside. Plants are so much happier if you just put them in the ground. There is no comparison. If I were only able to do a rooftop/balcony/patio grow (in other words didn't have access to the ground), then I would definitely stick with SIPs, if nothing else they simplify watering enough to be worth using them.

EDIT: I read the first line of the post of mine you quoted, and I also have a SIP thread in the outdoor section which has been more active... I wasn't paying attention and I thought this was the outdoor thread.... so my response is based on that. Hope it's still helpful. 



FullCarve said:


> Hi Rob,
> 
> I am pretty interested in this idea.
> 
> ...


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## FullCarve (Sep 8, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> There is a fork in the road with SIPs, and two schools of thought. Some people simply want a "self watering" system, so that the soil is consistently moist and they can go away for periods of time without having to worry about watering. Others seem to want a hydro/soil blend, to get the best of both worlds in terms of benefits. If you want the latter, then using an airstone is the only way to go (IMO).
> 
> I have not used an airstone in any of my outdoor SIPs, I decided not to run extension cords all over the back yard (I will _always_ use them indoors). When I pulled apart a SIP mid-season, there were almost no roots at all growing in the water, and from last winter's indoor, the only roots growing in the water were around the airstone. So, my outdoor SIPs are just a way of keeping the plants at an even and consistent level of moisture. That in itself enhances growth to some degree, it seems, but not nearly as much as when an airstone is introduced.
> 
> ...



Hi Rob, Thx for replying.

I was going to post in the outdoor section that you were in more in active, but the idea im having now is for indoor SIP using an air stones in a resi and I was inspired by your idea which was


""One thing I'm considering is drilling holes (maybe 2" apart?) all the way around the res bucket at the level of the 1" air gap, to allow freer air circulation. ""

so i thought this thread was still the right place?

if this idea was going to be implemented to an indoor SIP, and i would cut out a lot of those small holes in the gap between the water level and the bottom of the pot, and wrap a mosquito nets around the holes, and put an oscillating fan facing to the resi to boost blow air in. and finally install an airstone with a pump?

but as I mentioned earlier, I haven found out any of this, even similar design SIP, there gotta be for some reason, which I have completely no idea.

do you think if the bunch side air holes were made will make too much humidity out? or too fast dry the resi out? or some unknown side effects?

Appreciate and sorry for my noob questions


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## Humanrob (Sep 8, 2016)

@FullCarve -- I would not recommend the extra holes. One of the places my research into SIPs started was looking at the tutorials and instructions that came with commercially made SIPs, like Earthbox. They seal the top of the soil with a plastic liner that your plants grow through, and it serves a lot of purposes from interfering with bug life cycles (it eliminated gnats entirely for me), to helping control humidity. I'm not sure about where you live or your personal philosophy on humidity, but where I live, humidity=powdery mildew (I have to run a dehumidifier during lights out all winter long).

Most of the systems I've seen -- both commercial and DIY -- seem to be relatively closed systems, and seem to work well that way. Once the plants get going, they are going to drink most of the water in just a few days (depending on your soil to water ratio and other factors). The water won't sit long enough to get "stale". Plus, with an airstone you are keeping it oxygenated and I think pretty healthy overall. Keep it simple and have fun!


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## Tim Fox (Sep 8, 2016)

the way I understood it, is the SIP functions like a hempy bucket when there is no air stone, and air is pushed or pulled thru the over flow hole as the res level goes down, or when the rest is filled back up,, the push and pull of air is what exchanges it in a hempy and an earthbox, or a non airstone sip,, 
this is for an above ground sip of course


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## Cornishi (Sep 12, 2016)

This SIP m'larkley is good. Got some massive rootnetworks in my reservoir!
Plants exploded as soon as roots hit the water too.

Only thing I struggled with is catching the right dosage for feeding. Had to top feed 1 dose of nutes to balance them as I didn't think the water roots would get the uptake fast enough and they hadn't quite expanded int the water enough.

Not running air stones either - so I reckon if I did they'd be going absolutely mental. Might order some to chuck in there. They're like 4 weeks from seed now. So still time.


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## Tim Fox (Sep 12, 2016)

Cornishi said:


> This SIP m'larkley is good. Got some massive rootnetworks in my reservoir!
> Plants exploded as soon as roots hit the water too.
> 
> Only thing I struggled with is catching the right dosage for feeding. Had to top feed 1 dose of nutes to balance them as I didn't think the water roots would get the uptake fast enough and they hadn't quite expanded int the water enough.
> ...


how do you like those airpots?


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## Cornishi (Sep 12, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> how do you like those airpots?


They are ok, just never get the root structure I'd like. So far sip pots are giving me bigger roots. Not bad either considering I transplanted and near killed them all. 5 of my 4 plants fell out of the grow bags and ripped half their roots out. Thought it was game over 

But they bounced back!!


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## wollkopf (Sep 18, 2016)

Hey guys, 
I build a sip for my indoor grow from low profile storage boxes. The "res box" has a volume of ~1 cf and is 60 cm wide, 40 cm deep and 12 cm heigh. Inside of this tub i placed two smaller ~ 0,4 cf tubs, that just fit in perfect and leave me a small place between them to Hand water. I drilled 6 2 inch diameter holes in the bottom of each small tub and inserted a perforated plastic shot glas from Jägermeister in it. 

I filled them with my soil mix and at the moment I m running my 5th grow with this system and it works like a charm!


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## Humanrob (Sep 18, 2016)

wollkopf said:


> Hey guys,
> I build a sip for my indoor grow from low profile storage boxes. The "res box" has a volume of ~1 cf and is 60 cm wide, 40 cm deep and 12 cm heigh. Inside of this tub i placed two smaller ~ 0,4 cf tubs, that just fit in perfect and leave me a small place between them to Hand water. I drilled 6 2 inch diameter holes in the bottom of each small tub and inserted a perforated plastic shot glas from Jägermeister in it.
> 
> I filled them with my soil mix and at the moment I m running my 5th grow with this system and it works like a charm!


Got any pictures?


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## wollkopf (Sep 18, 2016)

Finished learning for today
Frontview of my small cabinet  
Little bit more details  
Final of my last grow (Amnesia haze)


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## Tim Fox (Sep 18, 2016)

wollkopf said:


> Finished learning for today
> Frontview of my small cabinet View attachment 3783745
> Little bit more details View attachment 3783746
> Final of my last grow (Amnesia haze) View attachment 3783747


DUDE thats so compact,, I love it,, do you have any build pics?


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## wollkopf (Sep 18, 2016)

No unfortunately not... At least not really. I have some pictures I took during the build, but no good ones... 
Maybe something like this:


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## Tim Fox (Sep 18, 2016)

wollkopf said:


> No unfortunately not... At least not really. I have some pictures I took during the build, but no good ones...
> Maybe something like this:
> View attachment 3783752


Ok so the Res is in the large outside container,, the inside containers are completly full of soil mix, and the Wicks are the shot glasses,, is that wood I see spacing up the inside containers?,,


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## wollkopf (Sep 18, 2016)

Yes the outer tub is the res. I used 4 wood blocks i vacuumized in plastic foil as spacers to get some more air space. All plastics I used are food grade.


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## Tim Fox (Sep 18, 2016)

wollkopf said:


> Yes the outer tub is the res. I used 4 wood blocks i vacuumized in plastic foil as spacers to get some more air space. All plastics I used are food grade.


I never thought about using a common res for multiple tubs , some of us have thought about an external res but it did not Dawn on me to set two tubs inside of a single res,. Very compact, I think yours is shorter than my earthbox. Which is 11 inches


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## wollkopf (Sep 18, 2016)

I first thought about 3 Inlays, but I couldnt find any fitting boxes... But with 2 boxes I think about an perpetual autoflower grow, with roughly 6 weeks between them.


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## Tim Fox (Sep 18, 2016)

wollkopf said:


> I first thought about 3 Inlays, but I couldnt find any fitting boxes... But with 2 boxes I think about an perpetual autoflower grow, with roughly 6 weeks between them.


How did you determine the wick size? Is there a ratio? Or did you wing it and guess?


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## wollkopf (Sep 18, 2016)

I just guessed, but it seems like i was right


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## Tim Fox (Sep 22, 2016)

my Earthbox Sip outdoors with 2 tomato plants is still thriving,, the plants went into the ground on May 1st which is early around here, and now they have been in the same soil for almost 5 months with no nutes added, ( some cal mag to the res early on while the domolite lime broke down in the soil),, now they are doing better than ever, lots of fruit growing still getting new flowers, and still harvesting ripe red tomatos,, she is drinking near 1.5 gallons per day


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## ttystikk (Sep 22, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> my Earthbox Sip outdoors with 2 tomato plants is still thriving,, the plants went into the ground on May 1st which is early around here, and now they have been in the same soil for almost 5 months with no nutes added, ( some cal mag to the res early on while the domolite lime broke down in the soil),, now they are doing better than ever, lots of fruit growing still getting new flowers, and still harvesting ripe red tomatos,, she is drinking near 1.5 gallons per day


Nice! If it was a pot plant it would be worth some money! Lol

I'm such a brat, I know,lol


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## Tim Fox (Sep 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Nice! If it was a pot plant it would be worth some money! Lol
> 
> I'm such a brat, I know,lol


this is a test drive for the earthbox sip,, when i chop down the tomato i will get a look at the water roots too, plus I have been working on spacers and an over flow catch for the earthbox in the mean time, the grow cab has new switches on the cob panel , and doing some fan testing this week, I am gearing up for a fall/ winter grow,, 
this sip box fits perfectly in the bottom of my wardrobe grow cab


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## ttystikk (Sep 22, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> this is a test drive for the earthbox sip,, when i chop down the tomato i will get a look at the water roots too, plus I have been working on spacers and an over flow catch for the earthbox in the mean time, the grow cab has new switches on the cob panel , and doing some fan testing this week, I am gearing up for a fall/ winter grow,,
> this sip box fits perfectly in the bottom of my wardrobe grow cab


Smart, like a fox. I'll be watching carefully.


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## Cornishi (Sep 23, 2016)

They deffo produce a better plant using these SIP's. Just feeding is a little tricker as I am having to top feed to balance them out.
Am using 50/50 Soil/perlite.

Not measuring PH as it seems redundant when the res can fluctuate so much.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 1, 2016)

ok,, took down the tomato plant yesterday,
several surprises, first off they went 5 months in this soil and the plant was still making boat loads of tomatos,, 
second, the layer of domolite lime was just now barely beginning to break down,, no wonder the plant was starving for cal mag, in fact if you look closely in the photos you can see white layer of lime streaking across the dirt about mid way , like a gold vein, only white, and if you grab a piece of the lime layer its gummy,, hyroot was right, 
third there were water roots all the way across and even, due to no air stone they wre not congregating in one certain section,, check out the picture where i pull on the screen and stretch the roots, a fine layer of hair all the way, it would have been cool to see the roots right side up in the res,, i am happy with this
the earth box screen with air gap ,, the plastic was warping under the load of the soil and the air gap was only about 5/8 of an inch,, so i will correct that on the next grow, 
Also for all you organic fans,, there are 2 pictures of the worms that came out of this thing when we tipped it over,, oh yea
over all i am happy with the end result of the test,,


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## Tim Fox (Oct 2, 2016)

I cleaned out the sip / earthbox yesterday, and i made some spacers to fit under the air gap tray, to hold it up , 
getting the grow box ready for a MJ grow,, will start a grow thread soon,, 
I am looking forward to seeing what the sip can do in the grow cab under the cobs


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## Evil-Mobo (Oct 2, 2016)

Bro your life is about to change as a grower with what you have planned you will all good vibes. Let me know if you need some beans


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## coughphee.connoiseur (Oct 3, 2016)

Hello to everyone communicating and contributing in this thread. I thought that this may be best place to direct my questions etc.

To anyone rocking SIP's, earthbox's I was wondering if you someone could help out with a layout, just some rough estimates. 

In a 11x11x8 total space room, and the canopy most likely being 9x9 and or 9.5x9.5.

Lighting Double Ended 825/1000. 

How many earthbox juniors or standard earthboxes would one use to create a full canopy of hybrid strains?

Earthbox Junior dimensions: 23" 1/2 long, 9" 1/2 wide 
Earthbox Standard: 29" long, 14" wide. 

If i'm leaving out in information that maybe needed to help conclude please excuse me and let me know and i will glady provide what is absent. 

I hope i get some responses and intelligent ideas and conversations started.


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## Cornishi (Oct 3, 2016)

First time running SIP's for my autos topped them and boy am I glad I did. They're over 3.5ft from soil and built like trees. Got my light as high as poss now as the canopy is super dense. Had to switch them to 14/10 to induce flowering on one that wanted to go longer.

Crazy times!


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## Tim Fox (Oct 3, 2016)

coughphee.connoiseur said:


> Hello to everyone communicating and contributing in this thread. I thought that this may be best place to direct my questions etc.
> 
> To anyone rocking SIP's, earthbox's I was wondering if you someone could help out with a layout, just some rough estimates.
> 
> ...


hey bro, I use the earthbox, and it works well,,,
but for a room your size, i would build your sips out of storage containrs, you can get ALLOT more water into the res below,, some of the guys were getting 5 to 10 gallons in the res,,,, where as the earthbox only olds 2.5 gallons,,, with the bigger res, someguy was only watering once a week,,,, 
plans for building the storage container type is at the start of this thead,,, 
let me know if i can be of further help
many of the great sip guys have left riu,, sadly


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## ttystikk (Oct 3, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> hey bro, I use the earthbox, and it works well,,,
> but for a room your size, i would build your sips out of storage containrs, you can get ALLOT more water into the res below,, some of the guys were getting 5 to 10 gallons in the res,,,, where as the earthbox only olds 2.5 gallons,,, with the bigger res, someguy was only watering once a week,,,,
> plans for building the storage container type is at the start of this thead,,,
> let me know if i can be of further help
> many of the great sip guys have left riu,, sadly


Is AIS, or air injected soil, a related tech?


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## coughphee.connoiseur (Oct 3, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> hey bro, I use the earthbox, and it works well,,,
> but for a room your size, i would build your sips out of storage containrs, you can get ALLOT more water into the res below,, some of the guys were getting 5 to 10 gallons in the res,,,, where as the earthbox only olds 2.5 gallons,,, with the bigger res, someguy was only watering once a week,,,,
> plans for building the storage container type is at the start of this thead,,,
> let me know if i can be of further help
> many of the great sip guys have left riu,, sadly


Thanks for the reply, For the time being im content with the 2.5 gallon res. Due to time restrictions, working methods, and partnership situation. I definitely will build some bigger sip containers in the future.


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## coughphee.connoiseur (Oct 3, 2016)

Any ideas or recommendations @ttystikk 

Lets say earthbox juniors were your "only" option due to certain circumstances. How would you fill up a 11x11 size room with them. @Tim Fox

Anyone in the SIP world?!?!?!


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## Evil-Mobo (Oct 4, 2016)

coughphee.connoiseur said:


> Any ideas or recommendations @ttystikk
> 
> Lets say earthbox juniors were your "only" option due to certain circumstances. How would you fill up a 11x11 size room with them. @Tim Fox
> 
> Anyone in the SIP world?!?!?!


If it was me I'd just do as many 5 gallon bucket SIP's as possible you can easily grow a plant like this on one, I ran (2) this size in a 3x3............I like leaving my girls space to grow......and good air flow keeps the bad shit at bay...........


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## ttystikk (Oct 4, 2016)

coughphee.connoiseur said:


> Any ideas or recommendations @ttystikk
> 
> Lets say earthbox juniors were your "only" option due to certain circumstances. How would you fill up a 11x11 size room with them. @Tim Fox
> 
> Anyone in the SIP world?!?!?!


My first foray into the world of SIPS was a disaster; I drowned my plants in a setup of my own design. Take @Tim Fox's advice instead lol


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## Humanrob (Oct 4, 2016)

coughphee.connoiseur said:


> Any ideas or recommendations @ttystikk
> 
> Lets say earthbox juniors were your "only" option due to certain circumstances. How would you fill up a 11x11 size room with them. @Tim Fox
> 
> Anyone in the SIP world?!?!?!


That really depends on your growing style, and how you would lay out the room in general. Are you looking for fewer bigger plants or more smaller ones? IMHO SIPs are not going change how you grow by that much. You need access to water, to trim and care for the plants, optimally access from all sides in case you need to spray (or if spraying is part of your normal procedure). SIPs will encourage growth and keep your plants healthy, but I don't think they don't have any unique space requirements. 

The best laid out room I've seen is SomeGuy's (as Tim mentioned, he left RIU). Here's a somewhat random link to* his thread* with pics of his set up. He packed them in around the perimeter of the room and scrogged them. It seemed to work very well for him. If you fish around on the pages preceding and after that on his thread, you'll see lots of other pics of his SIP room set up.


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## coughphee.connoiseur (Oct 4, 2016)

Thanks for all the replies guys, @ttystikk ahhhhh sorry to hear that but its a good thing you can have humor about it. 

@Evil-Mobo.... I originally was thinking to do the same thing months ago, im out voted though so we are going with earth boxes & city pickers ... 

@Humanrob thanks for the link ill be sure to check it out. 

As for my growing style. I love too foliar 2-3 times a week if vegging high intense light, or just once a week. Even foliar in flowering if needed... Only Aloe & Coconut. 

Id say in between on plants size ranging from 3.5' to 5.0' tall after scroggin so tru height i guess around 4.5' to 6'?!??Haven't experienced scrogging yet only have tied down with stakes..... 

Veg will be 2-4 weeks just depending on strain and growth.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 4, 2016)

coughphee.connoiseur said:


> Any ideas or recommendations @ttystikk
> 
> Lets say earthbox juniors were your "only" option due to certain circumstances. How would you fill up a 11x11 size room with them. @Tim Fox
> 
> Anyone in the SIP world?!?!?!


well , i would use the standard earthbox if possible, but the Jr and the City boxes are cheaper,, but ,, if you go with the Jr earthbox you will have a smaller res,, my last grow during hot days, I was having to fill the 2.5 gallon res daily ,, so if your ok watering daily if need be,, then go for it,, if i had room i would build the SIPs,, and get the large res, @SomeGuy and his fabric over 10 gallon res was just a cool build,, plus the fill tube was outside of the soil and you can make a trap door,, so you can peek down into the res if needed,, those are things you cannot do with the earth box,, I would give my left ear to be able to see the res in my earthbox, 
in an 11 by 11 room, i would place them apart by about 3 feet,, plants get big in these things,, especially if you veg for 4 weeks,, and you will need the space, so 2 rows of 3 earthboxes,, or if you pushed 2 rows against the walls, maybe 3 rows of of 3,, leaving you room to slide between them to work on the plants if needed,,
there is peace of mind having them pre built,, and the wick size already correct,,


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## coughphee.connoiseur (Oct 4, 2016)

Will most likely go with the standard earthbox's and city boxes, think ill be doing half/half of each to maybe compare i guess... the city boxes hold just a little less water. Yes definitely as peace of mind for the pre built. I plan on creating my own in the near future. 

This particular project isn't just my own so the vote went to pre-built. Oh shit give your left ear!! say it aint so.... 

I also have a nice sized blumat system that i may use in conjuction with the SIPs not sure yet.. but i know it would help out for empty res if i missed a day or two yeah?

I like your canopy layout... think ill try the 3 rows of 3 after i see it. Thank you for your brain work Mr. Fox and to all who shared with me.


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## Nu-Be (Oct 8, 2016)

I figured it's a good idea to post this here. Thanks to @Humanrob and @SomeGuy and @hyroot for the help and inspiration.

People ask about SIP rez size frequently. I've been working with these 18gal rezzes using a homemade ROLS mix for a whole cycle, and they did great, even with no airstones! 

Here's what I got in 'em:

4" perforated drain pipe
4" drain pipe end plug that fits on the end of the drain pipe pieces
3.5" hole saw
18gal rubbermaid roughneck container and lid (6 of these fit comfortably in a 4x4 apollo tent as two rows of 3, and you can get 7 in if you stuff them in a 2-3-2 |=| config)
2' lengths of 2" dia sch40 PVC pipe
2-1/2" hole saw
7gal root pouch cloth pot with handles (did 5gal last time, and it was fine but 7gal is better)

Drill your two holes through the lid. The pot hole is dead center, but try to be strategic about the fill pipe location - you want these to be easy to get to for watering because it's hard to move 150lbs of SIP in the middle of flower. This is especially important in a tent. When drilling the holes, go slow and steady or you'll make a mess.
 

Expand your 4" perforated drain pipe, and cut its length about 2 nodes above the edge of the container with the lid on. You're going to want this to be long enough to stick up into your cloth pot on one end, while resting comfortably on the bottom of the rez at the other end.
 

Use scissors to make a cuts down those first 2 nodes around one interior end of your drain pipe, and use your thumbs to dimple the other end for your wick bottom cap. When you affix the cap, don't leave big gaps between it and the dimpled pipe. The other crinkle-cut end will fit up through the bottom of the lid.
 

Make sure to clean everything, even if it's brand new. Spray your gear with tapwater and scrub with a clean cloth. You can even use a mild detergent like Bronner's or something, just make sure to rinse a bunch.
 

Let 'em dry out fully. Here in the desert, it doesn't take long.
 

Take your 7gal pots, poke a hole in the middle, and use scissors to cut a small 3" +. This is where you'll fit the crinkle-cut end of the drain pipe. Don't make the + too big.
 

Put that end of the drain pipe through the bottom of the bag. It should be a snug fit, pushing the ribbed flaps up through the cloth pot's + opening. You want your pipe fitting tightly into both the lid and the bottom of the pot so that, if you use supplemental teas from the top, it doesn't drain much down into your rez and sour it.
 

Fit the lid and pot assembly down on top of the rez. Be easy, as the ribbed pipe can bend if forced, so make sure it's not too long before you clamp the lid down. You want the pipe hanging straight down, so the end is resting comfortably against the bottom of the rez. Fill this pipe with coco to a mound at the top. Don't knock the bottom cap off or spill your coco into the rez - fill gently and take your time. It's worth doing right the first time.


Here are a few that took 30min to clean, cut and assemble one morning:


The last thing is to transplant your ladies, add water to within about 1-2" of the bottom of the lid (about 15-16 gal of water) and then add a plastic cover on the top around the stem to make the pot wick. It's critical to transplant, add water to nearly (but not quite) the top of the rez, then add a little water to wet the soil in the cloth pots - but not enough to drain out the bottom/sides of the cloth pot. Add slowly and surely from the top of the soil. Water down the white fill pipes can be added as quickly as you want, just make sure to look down them to prevent overfilling. I used filtered tap water, but RO would be best.

You'll also want to cut plastic evaporation barriers for the sides of the pots. I use 3mil clear plastic, and cut it into 48" x 10-11" strips for the sides, and a rough 12" x 12" circle for the tops. It's important to provide these evap barriers for proper wicking here in the desert, especially the top, but see what works for you and your garden. Lots of people use bucket lids and such. 

This is what my SIPs looked like in use at day 49F:


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## Nu-Be (Oct 8, 2016)

You can add an airstone down the fill pipes, but it's not required unless your room stays above 73F. I've read it adds explosive growth when used, and I'm trying it out this cycle. Here's what the wick & rez roots looked like at harvest without airstones:



Not bad, and only mildly sour smelling after a couple days outside after harvest. The roots at the top of the wick likely pruned themselves because I didn't add any water the last two weeks, so the rez got pretty low. In the height of flowering, my 18" plants drank about a gallon a day, and I liked to top them off almost to the lid with 5-7gal a week. Bigger plants could drink much more.

Here's a pic of the room reset happening at day 57F for the Cobra Lips, with the new SIPs housing 2 Barefoot Dr. and 2 GG4 x LBL before airstones were setup:


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## Tim Fox (Oct 8, 2016)

Nu-Be said:


> You can add an airstone down the fill pipes, but it's not required unless your room stays above 73F. I've read it adds explosive growth when used, and I'm trying it out this cycle. Here's what the wick & rez roots looked like at harvest without airstones:
> 
> View attachment 3799732
> 
> ...


Sadly Hyroot and Someguy have left RIU,,,, but Rob and I are still around,,, 
your sip build is way cool,, and I really like the LARGE Res,,, good looking roots too,,
on my next sip grow I will not be using airstones,, just for simple sake,, 

Hey are those AUTO's?


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## Humanrob (Oct 8, 2016)

Nu-Be said:


> This is what my SIPs looked like in use at day 49F


Great looking set up, I look forward to hearing and seeing how this works for you. Interesting that in the desert you need to wrap your cloth pots in plastic. I was not planning on doing that (I'm in the NW), but I will think about it. There would be less humidity escaping into the tent, that would be a good thing for me with PM control. 

Yours are very close to what my next two are going to look like, the biggest difference being I'm using 10 gallon Rubbermaid bins -- same width and length, but shorter. That's partly because I have height issues in my tent, and partly because I think that's enough water. I will have a pair in my 2x4 tent. 

Personally, I would not want 15 gallons of water in each bin, mostly for practical reasons. What if I have to move one? A gallon of water weighs about 8.3 lbs., so that would weigh 124.5 lbs. Per bin. Poop happens, I like to plan ahead and be sure I don't build something I can't work with down the line. When my plants were finished in the 14g in/over an 18g bin, it was a bear to get them out of the tent to break them down and clean them (I had filled them in place, and was not aware at the time of just how heavy they would get). It made me question what the sweet spot is for giving the plants everything they need while staying within parameters I can manage. But that's just me, we each have our comfort zones. 

I've thought that if I ever need to empty them for some reason, I would get some sort of water pump, at least I could pump the water out the window.


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## Humanrob (Oct 8, 2016)

Nu-Be said:


> You can add an airstone down the fill pipes, but it's not required unless your room stays above 73F. I've read it adds explosive growth when used, and I'm trying it out this cycle. Here's what the wick & rez roots looked like at harvest without airstones:
> 
> View attachment 3799732


Nice root development. I'm not sure why, but my roots only grew in the bubble stream of my air stones. And my outdoor ones without air stones did not have any roots in the water at all (beyond small root tips that grew in about 1/2" from the wick). It might be because I'm not pH'ing my water, and local water seems to come in high around 6.5 - 7.0. Perhaps that's not a friendly environment for root growth.


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## Nu-Be (Oct 8, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> Sadly Hyroot and Someguy have left RIU,,,, but Rob and I are still around,,,
> your sip build is way cool,, and I really like the LARGE Res,,, good looking roots too,,
> on my next sip grow I will not be using airstones,, just for simple sake,,
> 
> Hey are those AUTO's?


Nah, they're Cobra Lips (Chem 3 x Appalachia, almost done), which are bodhi reg freebies. Here's one of the CL phenos at harvest, 60 days flowering in the ROLS-filled SIPs, no airstones, with 5gal cloth pots.



The new ladies are 2x bodhi reg freebie high-CBD called Barefoot Doctor (high-CBD Harlequin x bodhi Sunshine Daydream), and 2x Bad Dog Genetics freebies from GLG that are GG#4 x Longbottom Leaf.



Humanrob said:


> Great looking set up, I look forward to hearing and seeing how this works for you. Interesting that in the desert you need to wrap your cloth pots in plastic. I was not planning on doing that (I'm in the NW), but I will think about it. There would be less humidity escaping into the tent, that would be a good thing for me with PM control.
> 
> Yours are very close to what my next two are going to look like, the biggest difference being I'm using 10 gallon Rubbermaid bins -- same width and length, but shorter. That's partly because I have height issues in my tent, and partly because I think that's enough water. I will have a pair in my 2x4 tent.
> 
> ...


I'm right there with you on both the height and the weight when using these big rezzes, and these are really experimental - I have 4x 10gal rezzes as backup, too. I'm concerned about the stretch on some of these phenos and might have to make a scrog net to keep them off the lights. That won't be the end of the world if so, but it will pretty much guarantee they aren't coming out until harvest...maybe tying down is a better option. The COBs help to keep them short and squat.

Moving them around is a real pain when they get more than 5gal of water - you have to be super sure of your setup and config, and the weight is a real strain when moving them out of the tent. It's doable when they have 5gal or less, but a huge pain at greater weights. 

These grows are tests to see if they'll work for 17 days or more while I'm on an upcoming vacation. If so, giddyup!  



Humanrob said:


> Nice root development. I'm not sure why, but my roots only grew in the bubble stream of my air stones. And my outdoor ones without air stones did not have any roots in the water at all (beyond small root tips that grew in about 1/2" from the wick). It might be because I'm not pH'ing my water, and local water seems to come in high around 6.5 - 7.0. Perhaps that's not a friendly environment for root growth.


Thanks, man. The ancient aquifer water here makes for delicious beer - the city of ABQ is becoming beer mecca because of the great water. I'm guessing it's neutral PH, but the plants seem to be OK with it filtered through an Aquasana (meh). RO is a future upgrade.


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## Humanrob (Oct 8, 2016)

Nu-Be said:


> Nah, they're Cobra Lips (Chem 3 x Appalachia, almost done), which are bodhi reg freebies. Here's one of the CL phenos at harvest, 60 days flowering in the ROLS-filled SIPs, no airstones, with 5gal cloth pots.


Looking at those beautiful buds that have had time to actually finish... makes me really psyched to do my next indoor!!!! My outdoor this summer was full of issues, and every single one (to varying degrees) had to come down before it was truly ready. Those are some awesome looking buds you've got there.


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## VegasWinner (Oct 9, 2016)

Here is a nice video I watched that helped me understand better. 



 Pedrod grow room with his SIP pots. nice thread. I have two Earth boxes and I was messing with them. I got them for $2 total cost with wheels. peace


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## jj302030 (Nov 7, 2016)

Rob or NuBe... what are you guys doing with the soil after the grow? are you guys using a no till grow style with earthworms? are you guys keep the container topped off or let it dry out completely before refilling?

Great thread lets keep it alive


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## Humanrob (Nov 8, 2016)

It depends on what it looks like... the experimental ones I ran outside in 5 gallons of soil became so root bound that about all I can do is re-compost the soil. In general we recycle it into the outdoor garden, and start fresh each time, especially with the indoor grows. But I'm growing at a pretty small scale, so its not a cost issue.


(outdoor SIP roots)


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## Humanrob (Nov 8, 2016)

I had a successful enough outdoor summer grow that this winter's indoor grow is just about adding some variety, volume is not an issue. To that end I'm going with more smaller plants in my little tents (one 2x4, one 3x3). 

The only SIP-related experiment I'm running is that in the 2x4 I'm going with 4 plants, and I plan on two SIP's pots being plastic, two fabric. While in general I had moved 100% to fabric pots for growing, I'm curious if with SIPs they are the better choice. Since I'm going to run four different strains, there simply is no science to this at all. Mostly its going to be about how often I have to water them, if one is more prone to bugs, things like that. 

Being in the NW I have had PM problems from time to time, and my understanding is that "overwatering" can be a factor, so I have been keeping an eye on how SIPs might contribute to that issue. I am curious about the way a plastic pot will retain moisture vs the fabric pot, and will that be a good thing or a bad thing. Last SIP run I used 14 gallon plastic bins as the pot, and I was worried that all those gallons of moist soil would encourage gnats and possibly root aphids, but the opposite happened and the runs were bug-free. 

I won't pick up clones and start this run until next week, at this point I'm still prepping the spaces.


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## coughphee.connoiseur (Nov 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Is AIS, or air injected soil, a related tech?


Sorry I'm hella late ... air injected soil.... sounds very interesting.


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## coughphee.connoiseur (Nov 9, 2016)

@Tim Fox Thank you, i want to share my layout with you. Via inbox or pm or whatever the hell they call i


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## pinner420 (Nov 9, 2016)

Do autopots count as a sip?


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## coughphee.connoiseur (Nov 9, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Do autopots count as a sip?


no not to me but can be used in conjuction to create one for sure


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## Tim Fox (Nov 9, 2016)

coughphee.connoiseur said:


> @Tim Fox Thank you, i want to share my layout with you. Via inbox or pm or whatever the hell they call i


sure ill send you a message


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## Tim Fox (Nov 9, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Do autopots count as a sip?


they function about the same,, it appears as though they are keeping the roots out of the res with the screen,, so its really just an auto watering system,, close and simular, but not exactly the same,,


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## Tim Fox (Nov 9, 2016)

Auto pots are a FLOOD DRAIN system


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## Lysemith, Lowkey (Nov 10, 2016)

Humanrob said:


> I'm looking forward to hearing -- as our collective experience increases -- if there are res sizes which can become too big. I'm wondering if at some point X number of standing gallons of water invites its own issues, that a smaller res that is drained (by the plant) and refilled more frequently would avoid? Time will tell. IIRC SomeGuy, you are a big fan of maximum air stones?  It seems like its keeping your water clean so that's a good thing, and I think you have the biggest res capacity I've read about so far.
> 
> Am I the only one using Pond-Zyme? LOL I can't wait to open these things up and see what's in them....
> As it stands my next grow will be a pair of 5 or 7 gallon cloth pots over 10gallon Rubbermaid bins. If I can get a second tent going, I already have two 5 gallon pots over 3.5 gallon buckets that I'll use in that one.


In reference to this I've put a 2 gal smartpot in a 5 gal dwc with a bubble bucket ring around the top and it rocked.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 10, 2016)

Lysemith said:


> In reference to this I've put a 2 gal smartpot in a 5 gal dwc with a bubble bucket ring around the top and it rocked.


trying to imagine what this looks like,, do you have a picture?


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## Lysemith, Lowkey (Nov 11, 2016)

Not handy I'm afraid, password recovery malarkey. Imagine One of the big nets for clay pellets in a 5 gal bucket except there was a smart pot with soil in it. Not technically sub irrigated.


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## budLIFE60 (Nov 24, 2016)

Hey guys, pretty new to SIP growing here. I actually got a glimps of @Nu-Be 's sip garden over on the bodhi thread and instantly set out to make my own. Has really turned how I water my plants around and they seem to love it. Anyway im having an issue with some over watering currently on my plants in flower. I was wondering if you are doing anything once your roots reach the water? I know some people are adding bubblers, is there anything else I could do? For now I'm just letting them dry up til I get the problem under control before Re watering. I'm leaving on a trip in a month and would really like to have to this problem solved so any help is much appreciated!
Happy Danksgiving


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## Tim Fox (Nov 24, 2016)

VegasWinner said:


> Here is a nice video I watched that helped me understand better.
> 
> 
> 
> Pedrod grow room with his SIP pots. nice thread. I have two Earth boxes and I was messing with them. I got them for $2 total cost with wheels. peace


My earthbox is taking very good care of my plants, I can post a pic when I get home from Thanksgiving


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## Tim Fox (Nov 24, 2016)

budLIFE60 said:


> Hey guys, pretty new to SIP growing here. I actually got a glimps of @Nu-Be 's sip garden over on the bodhi thread and instantly set out to make my own. Has really turned how I water my plants around and they seem to love it. Anyway im having an issue with some over watering currently on my plants in flower. I was wondering if you are doing anything once your roots reach the water? I know some people are adding bubblers, is there anything else I could do? For now I'm just letting them dry up til I get the problem under control before Re watering. I'm leaving on a trip in a month and would really like to have to this problem solved so any help is much appreciated!
> Happy Danksgiving


If your sip is home made then it sounds like your wick is to large


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## budLIFE60 (Nov 25, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> If your sip is home made then it sounds like your wick is to large


Hey thanks for the reply. My sip is homemade. I went with a 3 inch tube with coco/perlite mix for the wicking material. I haven't had any issue with over watering for the month in half or so until the roots hit the water. The roots are just soaking up too much sitting in the water. Is there much I can do for this? Might just start watering from the top if all else fails.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 25, 2016)

budLIFE60 said:


> Hey thanks for the reply. My sip is homemade. I went with a 3 inch tube with coco/perlite mix for the wicking material. I haven't had any issue with over watering for the month in half or so until the roots hit the water. The roots are just soaking up too much sitting in the water. Is there much I can do for this? Might just start watering from the top if all else fails.


My first thought are these, the roots that go into the res are water roots and like a dwc grow the plants should only drink what they need, a sip gets over watered when the one inch air gap is not correct, meaning the gap has shrunk or is non existent,, or the wick is too big, or the soil mix is wrong, or to much top watering
Bubbles and air stone s are not used in earthbox or octopot, the addition of air stone can get more air your roots but air stone are not a consideration when discussing soil that's to damp


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## Tim Fox (Nov 25, 2016)

People do ad air stone to earth boxes and octopot 
I am not using air stone and the plants are super healthy, 
Now my latest grow my clones looked wilty and droopy for a couple of weeks before they got thier water legs 
Maybe some pictures of what you have going on so I help us help you


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## Humanrob (Nov 25, 2016)

Tim's point about the 1" gap is a good one.

Not sure if I can be of any assistance, its all been trial and error for me so far. Maybe give some specs -- size of soil container, size of res...? Are you keeping the soil covered? What kind of temps are you keeping the grow space at? 

Have you tried to smell the water in your res (maybe through your fill tube) and/or look at it? When I've put my SIPs together and done the initial fill, some soil always gets in my water. During my grows I tend to add something like Hygrozyme or Pond-Zyme to the res, which can help keep the water cleaner and a better environment for the roots. I say that as though I know what I'm talking about, but in the limited time I've been on this forum (my only contact with other growers) no one else that I'm aware of is using those products... but if you read the labels they should help, and I can say for sure in my grows they have not hurt. 

LOL... that's all I got. Sorry its kind of weak. I think we're all figuring it out as we go.



budLIFE60 said:


> Hey guys, pretty new to SIP growing here. I actually got a glimps of @Nu-Be 's sip garden over on the bodhi thread and instantly set out to make my own. Has really turned how I water my plants around and they seem to love it. Anyway im having an issue with some over watering currently on my plants in flower. I was wondering if you are doing anything once your roots reach the water? I know some people are adding bubblers, is there anything else I could do? For now I'm just letting them dry up til I get the problem under control before Re watering. I'm leaving on a trip in a month and would really like to have to this problem solved so any help is much appreciated!
> Happy Danksgiving


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## Tim Fox (Nov 25, 2016)

Agreed, if you're floor between the soil layer and res is weak or if the weight of the soil has pressed down on the floor then your one inch air gap can be gone or worse yet if the floor below the soil is pushing down then your dirt can be touching the res water in effect making your wick far to big 
I hope all that makes sense


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## Fastslappy (Nov 25, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> Agreed, if you're floor between the soil layer and res is weak or if the weight of the soil has pressed down on the floor then your one inch air gap can be gone or worse yet if the floor below the soil is pushing down then your dirt can be touching the res water in effect making your wick far to big
> I hope all that makes sense


which has spoiled his soil ! ,
i'd un-pot the whole thing & reinforce the lid between the res & top section if that's the issue of lid sag
& at least troubleshoot it right now
y'd just need to dump the fluids in any case , check for rot
reinforce the id & slap it back down ,but rotted soils will kill it if something is not done imo
been there didn't do that ,it died


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## budLIFE60 (Nov 25, 2016)

Ok thanks for all of your help. Making a lot more sense now.

Here are some pics of the garden I took don't mind the male doing some pollen chucking.
 

About day 20 of flowering. I've got 3 plants in 5 gal pots sitting on top of a 20 gal container. 3inch drain tubing with coco/perlite for wicking. Only real cover on top of the soil is a couple inches of mulch. Temps in the room stay around 70F give or take a few degrees.


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## budLIFE60 (Nov 25, 2016)

You can see I've got way more than an inch between the top of the lid and the water. Have been waiting to water more in case it was an over watering issue. Plants in the back are pretty droopy. I'm using coot's soil mix recipe. Have used it many times before


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## Tim Fox (Nov 25, 2016)

Good looking setup, are you putting any nutes in the res?
Your soil looks like no till?
Can we please see a picture of the wick?


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## Tim Fox (Nov 25, 2016)

Tonights Earthbox Sip pictures,, 
chernobyl on the left, Headband on the right, 
earthbox sip, water and cal mag only so far


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## budLIFE60 (Nov 25, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> Good looking setup, are you putting any nutes in the res?
> Your soil looks like no till?
> Can we please see a picture of the wick?


Thanks. Nope I dont add any nutes to the soil or res. I use a super soil. Water only. Ok I'll post the picture tomorrow. You mean the wick drain tube inside the container right?


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## Tim Fox (Nov 25, 2016)

budLIFE60 said:


> Thanks. Nope I dont add any nutes to the soil or res. I use a super soil. Water only. Ok I'll post the picture tomorrow. You mean the wick drain tube inside the container right?


yes, anything you can show of the wick, would be helpful
the distance from your roots the the res looks fine,,allot of guys use a deeper res without problems, so just want to see the wick, 
but on a diy of your scale, getting the wick just right is important,, 
i guess i was lucky in buying an earthbox they already had all that worked out,, 
I have to say i really like the universal res for the 3 pots,, 
I also really like super soils,, my current grow is the same way, i doubt I will ad any nutes at all,,


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## ttystikk (Nov 25, 2016)

Good stuff, y'all are giving me ideas...

BIG ideas. Really Big.
When I say big, I mean tremendous! 

My last big idea was good for 2lb plants, indoors. 

Sooooooo big.


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## budLIFE60 (Nov 25, 2016)

Alright I'll see if I can get a good shot without dropping my phone in the res lol. I actually went with the bigger container so that I could fit the three 5 gallon pots. I figured it might cause some issues. But up until now I've been very impressed. 
I've seen the earthbox on buildasoil before and will probably end up switching to those later on
Supersoil is the only way I've grown. I love it. Straight water the whole time. That's why all this sip growing is so new to me never had to deal with a res or wick.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 25, 2016)

budLIFE60 said:


> Alright I'll see if I can get a good shot without dropping my phone in the res lol. I actually went with the bigger container so that I could fit the three 5 gallon pots. I figured it might cause some issues. But up until now I've been very impressed.
> I've seen the earthbox on buildasoil before and will probably end up switching to those later on
> Supersoil is the only way I've grown. I love it. Straight water the whole time. That's why all this sip growing is so new to me never had to deal with a res or wick.


build a so is so amaing,, i love that web site, , they have an amazing device for making bubble teas,, and thier worm bin equipment is top notch, i bought some soil amendments from them, and mixed it in with my horse manure compost and the chicken poop compost , the soil is pretty rich, 
Its so easy to just ad water to a sip the whole ride,, and to see such healthy plants ,, i am going to run this earthbox over and over


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## ttystikk (Nov 25, 2016)

Mmmmmmmm, taking copious notes.


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## Evil-Mobo (Nov 25, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Mmmmmmmm, taking copious notes.


If you are wanting to go no till we can discuss and I can show you my results thus far this run bro let me know. There's a section on the build a soil website titled the complete system and it explains some of the basics but that's just the tip of the iceberg. Your hardest run is the first because you're prepping the soil for the first time after that it is chop one down plant another in there and amend the soil as needed.


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## budLIFE60 (Nov 26, 2016)

OK so here's the best shot I could get of the res and wick. Lots of good roots. 
 
The discoloring of the water is from the coco I would guess. Doesn't really have to much of an odor. Smells pretty much like soaked coco. Honestly I've really been able to let these plants grow and do their thing. I've only watered them once in almost two months when I filled the container


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## budLIFE60 (Nov 26, 2016)

Thought I would post up a shot of my other sip tent. Its a little more simple than my other one I have. Just 12 gallon containers filled with perlite a couple inches to the top. Set your fabric pots on top I used 2 gal for this, and water about 1 inch from the bottom of your pot.

 
In this case I have 4 containers. 15 plants here. Gonna take some clones today, weed out the males and flip to flowering soon.


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## Evil-Mobo (Nov 26, 2016)

@budLIFE60 

Fantastic pics thanks for sharing. Those roots look great. When I ran my SIP's the roots exploded out into the res as well. I am curious to try a no till SIP here in the near future now that I am doing that in fabric pots but not sure how the plastic would fair for the worms .............


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## FootFungus (Dec 7, 2016)

I see most are saying no air stones, but I was told you can run them in octopots but put them on a 12/12 timer or the water would get too much oxygen. I'm running them on 12/12 seems to be ok. I will probably take one out of the next run to compare side by side with and without.


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## ttystikk (Dec 7, 2016)

FootFungus said:


> I see most are saying no air stones, but I was told you can run them in octopots but put them on a 12/12 timer or the water would get too much oxygen. I'm running them on 12/12 seems to be ok. I will probably take one out of the next run to compare side by side with and without.


Too much oxygen, lol

Fucking bro science at work right there! 

Saturating water with dissolved oxygen isn't hard. OVER saturating it is very difficult. Feel free to run the air stones full time.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 7, 2016)

FootFungus said:


> I see most are saying no air stones, but I was told you can run them in octopots but put them on a 12/12 timer or the water would get too much oxygen. I'm running them on 12/12 seems to be ok. I will probably take one out of the next run to compare side by side with and without.


the Sips work both ways,, with air stones or without,, without stones its more like a Hempy bucket in design,, with stones more like a DWC soil hybrid situation,, 
Stock wise the octopot and earthbox do not use airstones,, and work fantastic,, 
with stones,, well they work fantastic,, lol,,, 
i would say thats a WIN WIN


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## Weedy willy (Dec 9, 2016)

In a octopot, do you use a nute solution all the time or feed as you would normally?


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## ttystikk (Dec 9, 2016)

Weedy willy said:


> In a octopot, do you use a nute solution all the time or feed as you would normally?


I'd like to hear about this as well, as I'm planning to run nutrient solution.


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## Humanrob (Dec 9, 2016)

Weedy willy said:


> In a octopot, do you use a nute solution all the time or feed as you would normally?


Paging @captainmorgan


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## Tim Fox (Dec 10, 2016)

Weedy willy said:


> In a octopot, do you use a nute solution all the time or feed as you would normally?


Depends on the medium used


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## Weedy willy (Dec 10, 2016)

My medium is mix of ffof, black gold, perlite, and peat moss. Recycled from previous grow, sterilized and amened with 1 cup plant tone per cubic foot. My plan was to start out with plain water, then start feeding when needed using the dyna gro nutes.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 10, 2016)

Weedy willy said:


> My medium is mix of ffof, black gold, perlite, and peat moss. Recycled from previous grow, sterilized and amened with 1 cup plant tone per cubic foot. My plan was to start out with plain water, then start feeding when needed using the dyna gro nutes.


I am in a simular type soil mix,, and it sounds to me like you have more than enough nutes for water only alright, but with it being a re use, and not a no till set up,, you probably will need nutes during flower,,
I decided to start adding some Fox Farms liquid Big Bloom to my Sip res today, I am going to add it at half strength using the hydroponic schedule in the res, so i added 3 teaspoons to 2 gallons and filled the res,, along with 1 teaspoon of cal mag


Weedy willy said:


> dyna gro nutes.


are these Organic liquid nutes,, or are they a Salt based Nute?,, i should google it

Here is a pic of my Sip Grow just about 3 weeks in flower,, So Far its been Water only plus cal mag

When @captainmorgan chimes in,, he can share what his current medium is, but if memory serves me he is a more soiless type?,, i could be wrong,, its been a while since i checked his tread, But i do recall he was running about half strenght nutes in the GG4 grows, but there was some nute in the medium,, @SomeGuy and Hyroot were notill i think,, at least hyroot was,, but i do recall someguy saying he was water only and Hyroot was water only , but hyroot was messing around with wormbins and true no till


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## Evil-Mobo (Dec 10, 2016)

I don't know about the cal/mag but that particular FF is organic. I use it on some smaller pots sometimes as a compost tea. It's just basically guanos and EWC if you look at the ingredients. On a larger scale it makes no sense though as how much it uses per gallon..........


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## ttystikk (Dec 10, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> I am in a simular type soil mix,, and it sounds to me like you have more than enough nutes for water only alright, but with it being a re use, and not a no till set up,, you probably will need nutes during flower,,
> I decided to start adding some Fox Farms liquid Big Bloom to my Sip res today, I am going to add it at half strength using the hydroponic schedule in the res, so i added 3 teaspoons to 2 gallons and filled the res,, along with 1 teaspoon of cal mag
> 
> are these Organic liquid nutes,, or are they a Salt based Nute?,, i should google itView attachment 3850318
> ...


Those are salt based nutes, whether they ultimately came from organic sources or not.


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## Weedy willy (Dec 10, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> I am in a simular type soil mix,, and it sounds to me like you have more than enough nutes for water only alright, but with it being a re use, and not a no till set up,, you probably will need nutes during flower,,
> I decided to start adding some Fox Farms liquid Big Bloom to my Sip res today, I am going to add it at half strength using the hydroponic schedule in the res, so i added 3 teaspoons to 2 gallons and filled the res,, along with 1 teaspoon of cal mag
> 
> are these Organic liquid nutes,, or are they a Salt based Nute?,, i should google itView attachment 3850318
> ...


Yes, it is salt based is that bad, will I have to flush pot and reservoir more often, when using sip? With your setup will you use the nute solution all the way through flower, except for flushing at the end? Also what is no till setup?


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## Weedy willy (Dec 10, 2016)

Here's what the website says, All the nutrients are in solution, leaving no harmful salt burn from clumps of undissolved fertilizer. Plants take up the complete nutrient formula requiring little or no flushing. Use Dyna-Gro in foliar, drip or mist applications without clogging irrigation lines or burning plants. ... are safe to use on all plants.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 10, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Those are salt based nutes, whether they ultimately came from organic sources or not.


I thought grow big and tiger bloom were salt based but not big bloom ?


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## Tim Fox (Dec 10, 2016)

Weedy willy said:


> Yes , it is salt based is that bad, will I have to flush pot and reservoir more often, when using sip? With your setup will you use the nute solution all the way through flower, except for flushing at the end? Also what is no till setup?


Salt based nutes in a soil sip grow sounds like a recipe for trouble, a Build up of salt in the soil can't be flushed properly without screwing with the wick function , some guys top feed lightly and I mean light with teas in a sip 

D


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## ttystikk (Dec 10, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> I thought grow big and tiger bloom were salt based but not big bloom ?


Calcium nitrate is still calcium nitrate, no matter where it's originally sourced from.

What's the difference between natural and manufactured ascorbic acid? One may have been made by an orange, but they're both still exactly the same vitamin C.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 10, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Calcium nitrate is still calcium nitrate, no matter where it's originally sourced from.
> 
> What's the difference between natural and manufactured ascorbic acid? One may have been made by an orange, but they're both still exactly the same vitamin C.


i am not seeing calcium nitrate in the ingrediants list

Ingredients: Earthworm castings, bat and seabird guano, rock phosphate, sulfate of potash magnesia (a mined natural mineral) Norwegian kelp.

is the rock phosphate or the sulfate potash what your speaking of?,,, or are we talking about 2 differant products


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## Tim Fox (Dec 10, 2016)

Evil-Mobo said:


> I don't know about the cal/mag but that particular FF is organic. I use it on some smaller pots sometimes as a compost tea. It's just basically guanos and EWC if you look at the ingredients. On a larger scale it makes no sense though as how much it uses per gallon..........


i am reading the sea kelp provides some good minerals?,, who knows, I think the horse poop and chicken poop are the magic touch, ahahaha,, at least that horse is good for something!


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## Weedy willy (Dec 10, 2016)

Will anyone else give their opions on organic vs salt based nutes in a sip


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## Evil-Mobo (Dec 10, 2016)

Weedy willy said:


> Will anyone else give their opions on organic vs salt based nutes in a sip


Was already mentioned what do you do with a SIP if the plant gets locked out from too much buildup..........? Maybe not a big deal with a small plant in veg, but if you have let's say a big 5 foot girl in flower then what?


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## Tim Fox (Dec 10, 2016)

Weedy willy said:


> Will anyone else give their opions on organic vs salt based nutes in a sip


Hey buddy,, go over here, to captains thread,, he grows in an octopot Sip and he puts his nutes right in the res 
hope this helps some
https://www.rollitup.org/t/another-cree-cxa3070-diy-thread.824364/page-34


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## Weedy willy (Dec 10, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> Hey buddy,, go over here, to captains thread,, he grows in an octopot Sip and he puts his nutes right in the res
> hope this helps some
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/another-cree-cxa3070-diy-thread.824364/page-34


Thanks


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## ttystikk (Dec 10, 2016)

Tim Fox said:


> Hey buddy,, go over here, to captains thread,, he grows in an octopot Sip and he puts his nutes right in the res
> hope this helps some
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/another-cree-cxa3070-diy-thread.824364/page-34


If I wanted to do something similar, yet include organics in my substrate, do you have any tips?


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## Tim Fox (Dec 10, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> If I wanted to do something similar, yet include organics in my substrate, do you have any tips?


I think @Evil-Mobo and someguy and hyroot had the best ideas for growing the sips, with the No till set ups,, just water only in the res, I am sure trying to not ad much to mine,, i probably should not have even put the big bloom in there,, the things we do when we are high right,, hahaha,,
Buildasoil https://buildasoil.com/ these guys really have it going on,, at the very least get a good soil and put thier amendment mix into it,, should make for a good water only grow,, but for the true no till guys,, that place is a gold mine,,
not sure if this was what you were asking?

@Weedy willy hey bro check out build a soil,, may help with some of your questions ,,


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## Evil-Mobo (Dec 10, 2016)

https://buildasoil.com/pages/the-complete-system


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## Tim Fox (Jan 10, 2017)

Lets see those SIPs,


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 10, 2017)

First off... thanks to @Tim Fox for pointing to this thread! My idea is to make a large sip bed, I'm using the same 27 gallon tough totes (those with the yellow lids you see on this thread) however instead of using them solely as a water rezoning, and growing in 5-10 gallon fabric pots, I am filling one 27 gallon tote with soil and adding it on top of the rez. I'm using a 3 gallons fabric pot as a wick... homemade organic cooked soil (recipe on request lol) I plan on making many more but this one was on the fly and have a few questions before proceeding.

1. Is my wick too large? I can't seem to find any concrete answer on wick sizing.
2. How many plants do your think I can run in a 27 gallon tote of soil? 
3. I have some very rich soil (compost, homemade ewc, kelp, neem, organic tomato tone, rock dust, lime, crabmeal, azomite, alfalfa meal, .... I think that's all lol) how many runs can I use these for before I need to take the soil out and re ammend? Or can I just keep cooking soil and top dressing? 
4. Do I NEED to have holes in my upper tote or wick, in order for the roots to get to the rez?

Thanks all! I'll take detailed pics of my next build to add to the thread! As well as pics of plants once they go into the SIPs... they are still babies atm....

Thanks again!


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## Tim Fox (Jan 11, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> First off... thanks to @Tim Fox for pointing to this thread! My idea is to make a large sip bed, I'm using the same 27 gallon tough totes (those with the yellow lids you see on this thread) however instead of using them solely as a water rezoning, and growing in 5-10 gallon fabric pots, I am filling one 27 gallon tote with soil and adding it on top of the rez. I'm using a 3 gallons fabric pot as a wick... homemade organic cooked soil (recipe on request lol) I plan on making many more but this one was on the fly and have a few questions before proceeding.
> 
> 1. Is my wick too large? I can't seem to find any concrete answer on wick sizing.
> 2. How many plants do your think I can run in a 27 gallon tote of soil?
> ...


I am going to ask @Humanrob to help out with some of your questions , I have been around the block with these SIPs, but I have yet to personally construct my own, as I purchased the earthbox,,, But I did go all thru the DIY plans and followed along with everyone elses DIY sip builds,, and here is what I have learned
1. yes your wick is probably too big, other guys have reported,, ( someguy and hyroot) that they experiamented with wick sizing and if the wick is too large the soil is too damp/wet and the plants droop out and the thing is a wash.
2. I have 2 plants going in my Sip and it only holds 10 or 11 gallons of soil,, the plants are thriving, I knowing that the storage tubs are deeper than they are wide?,,, I will go out on a limb and say 2 plants, if indoors,, if outdoors,, maybe 1,, because you will have a monster on your hands,, @Humanrob had trees in 5 gallon bucket sips last summer
3. your soil sounds awesome,, should be enough for a water only run, hyroot was doing no till in his sips,, and making his own worm castings in a worm bin,, but it sounded like he was dumping his soil out between grows and mixing in new goodies and re packing the sip,, the people growing tomatos on the web shows them simply adding fresh nutes to the sips and making another run,,
4. yes you need the holes in the floor between the upper and lower tubs, this allows not only roots to reach the water res eaiser,, it also allows for allot more air transfer eitehr from the static air space ( like i am running),, or from an airstone if you go that route.

Did you take a good look at the SIP plans on page one that rob posted it shows really good builds for storage tubs, and wick sizing
a fabric pot top is not neccasary ,, a tub in a tub works too, pretty flexable on this stuff
also everyone who did DIY was stating that its easy to make a wick to large,, and with too many holes, most were reporting less is more when it comes to the wick,, the wick has to reach the bottom of the res,


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## Tim Fox (Jan 11, 2017)

@meangreengrowinmachine 
some pics for referance, I know your not building a fabric over tub, but these pics show some wick ideas

pictures from someguy and hyroot


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## Humanrob (Jan 11, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> First off... thanks to @Tim Fox for pointing to this thread! My idea is to make a large sip bed, I'm using the same 27 gallon tough totes (those with the yellow lids you see on this thread) however instead of using them solely as a water rezoning, and growing in 5-10 gallon fabric pots, I am filling one 27 gallon tote with soil and adding it on top of the rez. I'm using a 3 gallons fabric pot as a wick... homemade organic cooked soil (recipe on request lol) I plan on making many more but this one was on the fly and have a few questions before proceeding.
> 
> 1. Is my wick too large? I can't seem to find any concrete answer on wick sizing.
> 2. How many plants do your think I can run in a 27 gallon tote of soil?
> ...


Very ambitious project! I look forward to seeing the pics and I hope you'll let us know how it does. I can't answer all of your questions. 

As far as wick size goes... there is no science around this (yet?). I've made a variety of sizes and all have worked, but I've never used anything as completely porous as a fabric pot, nor anything nearly that big. I think using a fabric pot for the wick is a very interesting idea! That said, I would side with Tim on this and say it's probably too big.

How many can you/should you grow in that bin? It depends on your grow style. @PSUAGRO. *has a grow* going with multiple plants in a 30 gallon bag, but I'm not sure how many he has in there. His (I believe) is a 14/10 from seed grow. I once did a grow in a 54 gallon Rubbermaid bin (soil only, no SIP), and I comfortably grew three in there), so two would give them lots of root space.

I'm not sure what kind of grow environment you have, or what your grow style is. The biggest SIPs I've built were 14 gallon bins nested into 18 gallon containers. When it came time to break it down and clean it after the run, I had to disassemble it in the tent, because there was no way I could lift it out. Know that once everything is set up, the soil stays moist. So you will have about 25 gallons of wet soil over about 25 gallons of water (not filling it all the way to leave the air gap, still weighs over 200 lbs.). That is going to be VERY heavy. 

I would suggest going out into your yard, stacking one bin on top of the other, and filling the top bin with water as a sort of 'stress test' of the platform before you run it. The lid of the bottom bin has to be strong enough (even after all the holes are drilled in it and the wick space is cut out) to hold all that wet soil for several months. Something to think about. After making my 14/18 SIP, I decided that I didn't want to build one so big that I could not lift it. But that's just me.

Also, there are points of diminishing returns. Over 20 gallons of water in a res is a lot of water to work with. Make sure that your wick reaches the bottom, or you are wasting space. One of the great things about these systems is that the plants start to drink fast as they get big, and we are refilling our res's sometimes every other day, sometimes every day. This keeps the water fresh. If you create a set up (for instance) so that you can go away for 2 weeks and not have to refill it, you are going to have a large amount of standing water for a long period of time. That is something to manage. If that were my goal I would prefer a remote reservoir, using a float valve in my main res. 

Anyway, some things to think about. Look forward to seeing your progress!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 11, 2017)

thanks for the input rob! YES they are extremely heavy but i had anticipated this and have in on plant casters i had laying around so i can wheel it around the concrete basement from veg to flower etc. as far as weight on the lid the way i did it was i used a plastic milk carton cut down a bit so i have about 8 inches of rez in the bottom.. testing this i can easily hold well over 6 gallons of water and still have the said needed air gap. From a lot of the SIP things i have watched online they are using chunks of landscaping fabric to keep dirt out of the rez so i figured why not just use that AS the wick. as far as wick size unless there is a point where it gets just TOO big.. i think my proportions are pretty much right on for how much soil I have.. I think the 3 gallon will work in this set up just because I'm using 27 freaking gallons of soil lol.. also the reason that I want to try for such a large amount of soil, is because all that i have seen on the organic threads are that bigger containers for water only are better and help you develop a more diverse soil food web... so i figured go big or go home hahaha. I will get some pics up when i make a second one and keep everyone posted how this one does once i move the seedlings into it. thanks guys!


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## Tim Fox (Jan 11, 2017)

my current sip grow week 7 flower completed


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 11, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> my current sip grow week 7 flower completedView attachment 3873690


very nice! I really want to get some of those COBs.. im only under a 600 watt HID in a tent atm.. but i have the plans and gathering materials to get the big room(s) built. I do have a veg area also but that just has floros in it..how many plants and sips you working with there? I read through the whole thread but i dont recall which ones you were running earthbox after the tomato run right?


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## Rrog (Jan 11, 2017)

Back in the day on another forum we were growing highly aerated soil with a reservoir below and air stones. I did a few rounds that way. The constant-moist soil, along with great aeration was the benefit I found.

Now I use the same highly aerated soil plan, but with BluMat drippers and Geopots for air. I get lotsa air, and constant moisture - no runoff.

Many ways to have fun growing


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 11, 2017)

Weedy willy said:


> Will anyone else give their opions on organic vs salt based nutes in a sip


I would say do one or the other i think the salts will be inhibiting if not killing your organic soil food web.. i think they could work in this application... the main thing i would be worried about would be a large build up of them and how you would flush them in the end to not get those popping with chemical stuff buds (believe me I have done it and it was with fox farms yuck). Personally the whole reason i am going to SIPs is to be able to have a large amount of soil which is easier to maintain a soil food web in as opposed to salt nutes... If I was going to go salt based i would be using something different.. aero ponics with jacks or something like that maybe dwc which is similar in that you use plants that sit on or in the water rez and air stones... just my opinion man... you asked (-;


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## Humanrob (Jan 11, 2017)

Here's a quick pic of my current SIP run, just hitting week 6. It's kind of a sloppy grow, but it's doing OK.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 11, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Here's a quick pic of my current SIP run, just hitting week 6. It's kind of a sloppy grow, but it's doing OK.
> 
> View attachment 3873711


I totally like it,, on my next grow i may have to switch to garbage bags for a top cover,, i really doubt i want to purchase new ones from earth box,,,

speaking of earth box,, i was looking at the grow box again this morning, ,I could really use a larger res,, the earthbox has 2.5 gallons, BUT the grow box has a 4 gallon res,,AND the grow box has a res fill point on front,, not a fill tube,, and with the fill port you can actually SEE down into the res,, kinda like the octopots can,, those have a port window next to the res level indicator
what i like about the grow box is the dimensions are almost identical to the erath box,, which fits my grow cab so well
here is a link to the grow box on amazon

https://www.amazon.com/Garden-Patch-Terra-Cotta-Grow/dp/B007YPDTYI/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

some reviewers are rating the grow box better than the earthbox,,


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## Tim Fox (Jan 11, 2017)

here are a couple of cool pics,, i like how its two pieces, so a person can lift it apart at the end, and not spill water every where, and you can lift half the weight if needed 
also the floor looks stronger, and the wicks look a little larger, i guess they have to be since the res is deeper,,
I wont need an over flow tray,, as filling can be Seen,, and you just stop when the water reaches the top, instead of waiting for it to over flow


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 11, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> I totally like it,, on my next grow i may have to switch to garbage bags for a top cover,, i really doubt i want to purchase new ones from earth box,,,
> 
> speaking of earth box,, i was looking at the grow box again this morning, ,I could really use a larger res,, the earthbox has 2.5 gallons, BUT the grow box has a 4 gallon res,,AND the grow box has a res fill point on front,, not a fill tube,, and with the fill port you can actually SEE down into the res,, kinda like the octopots can,, those have a port window next to the res level indicator
> what i like about the grow box is the dimensions are almost identical to the erath box,, which fits my grow cab so well
> ...


I know someone that used those for garden veggies last year and LOVED them


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## Humanrob (Jan 11, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> here are a couple of cool pics,, i like how its two pieces, so a person can lift it apart at the end, and not spill water every where, and you can lift half the weight if needed
> also the floor looks stronger, and the wicks look a little larger, i guess they have to be since the res is deeper,,
> I wont need an over flow tray,, as filling can be Seen,, and you just stop when the water reaches the top, instead of waiting for it to over flowView attachment 3873737 View attachment 3873739


As time goes on companies are building off of each other and improving on the designs -- this looks like an upgrade.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 11, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I know someone that used those for garden veggies last year and LOVED them


it has improvments that i really would like to have,,, I was going to modify my earthbox over the summer,, but i really dont want to drill holes in the thing,, I grow in my bedroom,, and the idea of flooding the carpet just doesnt fly well,, so these Sips, when done right have a very low risk of water damage,, 
i have not found how much soil they hold,, but it appears that its like the earthbox and probably will hold one solid bag of FFOF lets say


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## Tim Fox (Jan 11, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> i think the salts will be inhibiting if not killing your organic soil food web


Salts would be so bad in a sip,,, IF the salts would stay in the res,, maybe,, but since the roots drink and eat from the res in a sip,, thats cool,, BUT the big problem you addressed,, is the wicking, the wicks will pull the salts up into the dirt, and then the build up will result in Tox issues,, lock outs, and worse,, and just as you said,, no way to flush the soil,, you could,, but what a big fat mess it would be to flush from the top of a sip and have it all come out the over flow,, top watering hurts sips,, over dampens the soil, stops the wicking action,, blah blah blah
Organics in the res,, yes,, cal mag in the res yes, 
but if your soil is good,, you dont need added nutes,, most everyone is running water/cal mag only the whole ride, 
if a person used coco in the sip, or a dirt that is mostly inert,, then organic nutes would be required,, there is a good grower on here using octopots who puts nutes about half strength in his res, with fantastic results,,


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## Jaybodankly (Jan 11, 2017)

I do a 5gal bucket with a hole drilled about two inches up from the bottom. That two inches gets filled with perlite the rest gets soil mix.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 11, 2017)

Jaybodankly said:


> I do a 5gal bucket with a hole drilled about two inches up from the bottom. That two inches gets filled with perlite the rest gets soil mix.


Like a hybrid hempy bucket... simple, low foot print.. do you use nutes or water only?


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## Tim Fox (Jan 11, 2017)

Jaybodankly said:


> I do a 5gal bucket with a hole drilled about two inches up from the bottom. That two inches gets filled with perlite the rest gets soil mix.


Yup hybrid hempy alright, pretty cool


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 11, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Yup hybrid hempy alright, pretty cool


I tried hempys with nutes and all perlite in 3 gallons a while back grew some monsters but hated all the manual nutes and mixing and such and then flushing was such a pain in the ass... maybe I could recycle those hempys this way for moms...


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## Tim Fox (Jan 11, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I tried hempys with nutes and all perlite in 3 gallons a while back grew some monsters but hated all the manual nutes and mixing and such and then flushing was such a pain in the ass... maybe I could recycle those hempys this way for moms...


OMG YES!!! i did a hempy grow, and I hated it, mixing the nutes, ph'ing the water, TDDS, then after filling the buckets , the overflow holes drained into a tray that I could not remove and so i used a turkey baster,, it took forever,, it as labor to me,, and I hate work hahaha,, never again for me,, and when i found the SIP guys, it was a perfect fit,,


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 11, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> OMG YES!!! i did a hempy grow, and I hated it, mixing the nutes, ph'ing the water, TDDS, then after filling the buckets , the overflow holes drained into a tray that I could not remove and so i used a turkey baster,, it took forever,, it as labor to me,, and I hate work hahaha,, never again for me,, and when i found the SIP guys, it was a perfect fit,,


Dude.. I did the EXACT same ... still have the turkey baster and I even bought an upgraded manual syphon lol ... I can see why we both gravitated to SIPs! DOWN WITH MANUAL WATERING!


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## Tim Fox (Jan 11, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Dude.. I did the EXACT same ... still have the turkey baster and I even bought an upgraded manual syphon lol ... I can send why we both gravitated to SIPs! DOWN WITH MANUAL WATERING!


there was a day,, during the hempy grow,, I was Grumbling my ass off,, and my wife is stiting over on the bed,, and i can hear her laughing,, while she drank her coffee, and i like a grouch made some comment, and she looks up and says " I bet you are really missing the dirt about now",,, that was it, i pulled the plants out of the hempys, ( they were small), and I planted them into 3 gallon containers and life was Peaceful from them on,, and when I found the sips, it was like an AH HA moment,, having understood how a hempy works, it was the growth of hempy but without all the hassel,


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## PDX Joe (Jan 11, 2017)

I've been rocking SIPS for years. I started with Earthtainers that I built, and then adapted the concept for other stuff. Here's my veggie garden and hops.


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## PDX Joe (Jan 11, 2017)

Then I built this SIPS with a half whiskey barrel and barrel liner for my fig tree.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 11, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I've been rocking SIPS for years. I strarted with Earthtainers that I built, and then adapted the concept for other stuff. Here's my veggie garden and hops.


i just showed each of your pictures to my wife,, she is hounding me for some raised flower beds,, I think i just made a sale!!!,, thats so much more appealing with the wood around the tubs,, it takse away the ugly of storage tubs in the yard, and brought it to the cool zone,, very nice


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## Tim Fox (Jan 11, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Then I built this SIPS with a half whiskey barrel and barrel liner for my fig tree.


@Humanrob ROB build one of these for your outdoor sips this summer!!


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## ttystikk (Jan 11, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> i just showed each of your pictures to my wife,, she is hounding me for some raised flower beds,, I think i just made a sale!!!,, thats so much more appealing with the wood around the tubs,, it takse away the ugly of storage tubs in the yard, and brought it to the cool zone,, very nice


The honey do list for spring just got started, lol


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## PDX Joe (Jan 11, 2017)

I couldn't stop, so the next design was a hybrid fabric pot/ root pruning system with SIPS. I cut a 50 gallon water drum in half, drilled holes and used shade cloth to line the sides. I used these for squash and potatoes.


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## PDX Joe (Jan 11, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> i just showed each of your pictures to my wife,, she is hounding me for some raised flower beds,, I think i just made a sale!!!,, thats so much more appealing with the wood around the tubs,, it takse away the ugly of storage tubs in the yard, and brought it to the cool zone,, very nice


Yeah, the wood corral looks good. It also keeps the pots cool and keeps the plastic from degrading in the sun.


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## PDX Joe (Jan 11, 2017)

Oh and of course the next logical step for me was to grow cannabis in slightly smaller versions. I fed them with the same dry fertilizer I use for my veggies and resulted in these beasts. They were over eight feet tall when I chopped them.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 11, 2017)

Damn @PDX Joe !


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## PDX Joe (Jan 11, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Damn @PDX Joe !


I loooove me some SIPS. I'm in the process of adapting my indoor grow Autopots to work a bit more like a SIPS and less like a hydro system. But, I have to get through my current grow before I fully implement the plan.


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## Weedy willy (Jan 11, 2017)

Has anyone used kind soil in a sip?


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## PDX Joe (Jan 11, 2017)

Weedy willy said:


> Has anyone used kind soil in a sip?


No, but what's it made with? I might be able to give you idea if it could work.


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## Jaybodankly (Jan 11, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Like a hybrid hempy bucket... simple, low foot print.. do you use nutes or water only?


I do a vermi-soil with water for the grow. Pretty carefree.


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## Weedy willy (Jan 11, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> No, but what's it made with? I might be able to give you idea if it could work.


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## PDX Joe (Jan 12, 2017)

Hmm, well... the base is peat/ coco with some perlite... so that part is a good start to having a lightweight mix that can achieve proper capillary action to wick water up. However, the thing that would concern me about this mix is that they imply it's pretty hot stuff with the way they want you to use it. They don't want you to plant directly into the mix, but place it at the bottom of more inert mix. I assume this is in order to avoid burning the plants and to get a slow release of nutes.

This could be a problem in a SIPS for a couple reasons. If the mix is too dense then it may become too saturated because it will be all down near the reservoir and this may prevent water from properly wicking up into the rest of the grow medium. Stuff like worm castings, guano and humus can potentially make the medium too dense and therefore too wet. You could try to put a lot more perlite into it to lighten it up. When I use peat moss I usually amend it with 40% perlite. With a dense mix you might want to go higher than this with perlite.

The other issue is having water percolate up through this hot mix could cause young plants to get too much nutrients early and then not enough later in the grow. But, I'm speculating on this one. The way I apply my fertilizer is actually at the top of the system. I carve trenches along the top outside edges of the bucket grow medium and pour slow release organic powdered fertilizer into the trenches and then cover it over with peat. The water wicks up and slowly activates the nutrients over a long time rather than the powder nutrients getting too wet if it was mixed lower in the SIPS container. Roots radiate out to the trenches of fertilizer as the plant gets larger and need more nutrients. In your case, you could try to use the kind soil around the perimeter of the container in the ratio they suggest and then fill the rest of the container with the inert medium. That way your plant wouldn't be directly in the kind soil, but the denser kind soil wouldn't be at the bottom of the SIPS. You might get a slow release of nutrients similar to the trench technique without affecting water wicking capability.

One other thing I do in peat medium is add a bit of dolomite lime, usually 1-2 tbsp per gallon of medium to provide some calcium throughout the grow. I have also had to supplement with some Cal-Mag in the res later in the grow... especially for tomatoes and cannabis. But, the kind mix might have enough calcium.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 12, 2017)

i have a lot of the same ingredients in my soil as is in this kind soil not ALL but most of them, and I plan on using that for the whole thing but I have also had it sitting breaking down for a few months.


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## ttystikk (Jan 12, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> i have a lot of the same ingredients in my soil as is in this kind soil not ALL but most of them, and I plan on using that for the whole thing but I have also had it sitting breaking down for a few months.


I'm very interested in your results.


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## Weedy willy (Jan 14, 2017)

Can anyone recommend any pre made super soils that I could use? I just really dont have enough time to make my own and let it break down for months.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 14, 2017)

Build a soil web site or just ffof with happy frog organic dry nite is my suggestion


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## Weedy willy (Jan 14, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Build a soil web site or just ffof with happy frog organic dry nite is my suggestion


I've used ffof before, but never used the dry fertilizer. How long would it last, would I have to add anything during flowering or would that be all I needed? My main concern is top feeding and messing up the wicking.


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## Weedy willy (Jan 16, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Hmm, well... the base is peat/ coco with some perlite... so that part is a good start to having a lightweight mix that can achieve proper capillary action to wick water up. However, the thing that would concern me about this mix is that they imply it's pretty hot stuff with the way they want you to use it. They don't want you to plant directly into the mix, but place it at the bottom of more inert mix. I assume this is in order to avoid burning the plants and to get a slow release of nutes.
> 
> This could be a problem in a SIPS for a couple reasons. If the mix is too dense then it may become too saturated because it will be all down near the reservoir and this may prevent water from properly wicking up into the rest of the grow medium. Stuff like worm castings, guano and humus can potentially make the medium too dense and therefore too wet. You could try to put a lot more perlite into it to lighten it up. When I use peat moss I usually amend it with 40% perlite. With a dense mix you might want to go higher than this with perlite.
> 
> ...


What kind of powder nutes do you use?


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## Tim Fox (Jan 16, 2017)

Weedy willy said:


> I've used ffof before, but never used the dry fertilizer. How long would it last, would I have to add anything during flowering or would that be all I needed? My main concern is top feeding and messing up the wicking.


I have done water only in ffof with fox farms dry nutes mixed in Start to harvest


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## Tim Fox (Jan 16, 2017)

On this grow I used ffof with happy frog dry organic and marine cuisine dry nutes , just water and Cal mag


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## Weedy willy (Jan 16, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> On this grow I used ffof with happy frog dry organic and marine cuisine dry nutes , just water and Cal mag


The website says put in the top inch layer of soil, do you do that or mix with the soil before planting? This is probably what I'm going to try.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 16, 2017)

Weedy willy said:


> The website says put in the top inch layer of soil, do you do that or mix with the soil before planting? This is probably what I'm going to try.


which web site?


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## Tim Fox (Jan 16, 2017)

Weedy willy said:


> The website says put in the top inch layer of soil, do you do that or mix with the soil before planting? This is probably what I'm going to try.


hahaha,, i am pretty darn stoned,,,, 
I mixed in 1 cup of happy frog dry nute to one bag of FFOF and 1 cup of marine cuisine to the same bag, and 1 cup of domolite lime,, next grow i will probably leave out the lime


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## Weedy willy (Jan 16, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> hahaha,, i am pretty darn stoned,,,,
> I mixed in 1 cup of happy frog dry nute to one bag of FFOF and 1 cup of marine cuisine to the same bag, and 1 cup of domolite lime,, next grow i will probably leave out the lime


Thanks, why leave out the lime? I've always added lime


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## Plant Lobbyist (Jan 16, 2017)

I am trying a DiY sip-like run consisting of 102l tough boxes as the res using 3g re-usable grocery bags as the wick and 7g fabric pot for growing sitting on top. 2 for each toughbox.

Wick material is recycled pro-mix hp with some added perlite, vermiculite, epsom, dolomite, rock dust and biologicals. Growing medium is the same + mykos and azos. Plan is to run a few strains to get the hang of it. 

First thing I noticed is the wicking function exceeded my expectations. Growing medium might actually be too wet. I have been letting them run under lights for two weeks without plants to get an idea of the base evaporation rate and help offset the low humidity from the cold temps.

The 3g wicks are probably overkill but they make a solid base for the growing section. Has anyone had good experience using some sort of air exchange or injection system? I was thinking just putting in some drinking straws down 6" to get more air into the medium. Pros? Cons? Good? Bad?

In the meantime I am going to let the res almost completely dry out.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 16, 2017)

Weedy willy said:


> Thanks, why leave out the lime? I've always added lime


just google how long does lime take to break down in soil,,, its months and months before it begins to really work, and there are better / faster acting things to ad for cal mag,

if your a no till grower,, or someone who re uses and amendents their soil, then lime would be a great thing, as the older stuff would be releasing into the soil


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## Plant Lobbyist (Jan 16, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> just google how long does lime take to break down in soil,,, its months and months before it begins to really work, and there are better / faster acting things to ad for cal mag,
> 
> if your a no till grower,, or someone who re uses and amendents their soil, then lime would be a great thing, as the older stuff would be releasing into the soil



Any recommended ratio?

Lime also helps breakdown biologicals and offsets the acidity of peat.


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## PDX Joe (Jan 17, 2017)

Weedy willy said:


> What kind of powder nutes do you use?


So far I have always used EB Stone in my SIPS. I use their Tomato & Vegetable Food 4-5-3 in the fertilizer trenches. I also mix in some of their Sure Start 4-6-2 throughout the grow medium around the root ball in addition to dolomite lime (growing in peat). But, what I have found with the tomatoes and also the cannabis is that they use the nutes in the soil toward the middle to end of the grow and then I need to supplement with a light feeding of liquid nutes in the reservoir. I typically have used Fox Farm Grow Big or Fox Farm Big Bloom at 1/2 strength or less. Although, I wonder if one might be able to get through an indoor grow without the supplemental liquid nutes because the plants won't be giant 8 foot outdoor plants.

And I will supplement with Cal-mag in the res if I see a deficiency. My last few summers I have even added a very light amount of worm castings to the grow medium without adverse effects.

Last year I added a bit of bark mulch throughout the medium to increase aeration and soil structure, but I don't think it's necessary. The previous six years I didn't do that and I haven't seen a difference. I think the bark might be more useful in a no till type system to avoid compaction.

I'm very interested in the Buildasoil craft blend powder nutes and mineral mix. They look like they may be similar to EB Stone with possibly higher quality ingredients dialed more for cannabis. Also, their mineral mix may provide more readily available calcium than dolomite lime. Dolomite sometimes takes awhile to break down. I saw Pedro's Grow Room on YouTube using Buildasoil with SIPS and it looks like it works for him.


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## PDX Joe (Jan 17, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> just google how long does lime take to break down in soil,,, its months and months before it begins to really work, and there are better / faster acting things to ad for cal mag,
> 
> if your a no till grower,, or someone who re uses and amendents their soil, then lime would be a great thing, as the older stuff would be releasing into the soil


I agree, the dolomite takes awhile to break down, but it is nice to use if you're reusing the soil. My outdoor containers go about three summers before I change out the medium.

I'm really interested in the Buildasoil mineral mix for peat. It looks like it has ingredients that with supply calcium quicker than dolomite. They have one for coco too.


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## PDX Joe (Jan 17, 2017)

Plant Lobbyist said:


> Any recommended ratio?
> 
> Lime also helps breakdown biologicals and offsets the acidity of peat.


Usually about 1-2 tbsp of dolomite lime for every gallon of grow medium. But, you can be generous with dolomite lime and still be okay because it does break down slowly.


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## PDX Joe (Jan 17, 2017)

Plant Lobbyist said:


> I am trying a DiY sip-like run consisting of 102l tough boxes as the res using 3g re-usable grocery bags as the wick and 7g fabric pot for growing sitting on top. 2 for each toughbox.
> 
> Wick material is recycled pro-mix hp with some added perlite, vermiculite, epsom, dolomite, rock dust and biologicals. Growing medium is the same + mykos and azos. Plan is to run a few strains to get the hang of it.
> 
> ...


Watch out with adding biologicals to your wicks. That could potentially cause some bad stuff to grow in the reservoir. Also, introducing air down low is usually a good idea. As the reservoir water drops it sucks in air and almost acts like a lung so long as you provide a way for the air to enter. It may also help prevent anaerobic bacteria down in the reservoir.

I'm currently trying out Autopots on my indoor grow and I lost a plant to pythium root rot because I believe there isn't enough air down at the bottom and too much moisture. I'm going to convert the Autopot to have a wicking basket in order to introduce an air gap between the growing medium and water reservoir.


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## a senile fungus (Jan 17, 2017)

Do y'all prefer to use the dolomitic lime or could something like oyster shell flour be used? I have both, but my dolomite lime is granulated, and I'm wondering if powdered might be better for quicker availability. Or maybe a healthy mix of both...

I'd like to build a tester SIP and run it side by side to see if I'm switching from my current system.


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## PDX Joe (Jan 17, 2017)

a senile fungus said:


> Do y'all prefer to use the dolomitic lime or could something like oyster shell flour be used? I have both, but my dolomite lime is granulated, and I'm wondering if powdered might be better for quicker availability. Or maybe a healthy mix of both...
> 
> I'd like to build a tester SIP and run it side by side to see if I'm switching from my current system.


I've never used powdered dolomite lime, only pelletized dolomite. I've looked for the powdered stuff, but have had a hard time finding it in the past. I do believe the powdered version will work faster.

I think oyster shell flower might also work faster, that is why I'm interested in the Buildasoil mineral mix.


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## Jp.the.pope (Jan 17, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I agree, the dolomite takes awhile to break down, but it is nice to use if you're reusing the soil. My outdoor containers go about three summers before I change out the medium.
> 
> I'm really interested in the Buildasoil mineral mix for peat. It looks like it has ingredients that with supply calcium quicker than dolomite. They have one for coco too.


I love it


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## Plant Lobbyist (Jan 17, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Watch out with adding biologicals to your wicks. That could potentially cause some bad stuff to grow in the reservoir. Also, introducing air down low is usually a good idea. As the reservoir water drops it sucks in air and almost acts like a lung so long as you provide a way for the air to enter. It may also help prevent anaerobic bacteria down in the reservoir.
> 
> I'm currently trying out Autopots on my indoor grow and I lost a plant to pythium root rot because I believe there isn't enough air down at the bottom and too much moisture. I'm going to convert the Autopot to have a wicking basket in order to introduce an air gap between the growing medium and water reservoir.



I left my res open air plus I am using tap water (chloramine) and h2o2 to cull the biologicals in the res if they become an issue but so far they haven't. Not sure if that is due to competition or some other elements in the mix.

I have expanded on my drinking straw idea to include a small trellis in each of the pots. The legs of the trellis fit into the drinking straw then into the medium providing an airway through notches in the straw. Trellis legs will keep the straw anchored.

Will let you know how it goes.


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## PDX Joe (Jan 17, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> I love it


You love the Buildasoil? Do you use it instead of dolomite?


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## Jp.the.pope (Jan 17, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> You love the Buildasoil? Do you use it instead of dolomite?


Yessir. I have half a garage filled with soil and amendments from BAS. I have used the mineral mix on my raised beds outside. Planning on adding it to my new SIPs I'm working on this week. 

No actual SIP related use yet :/


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## PDX Joe (Jan 17, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Yessir. I have half a garage filled with soil and amendments from BAS. I have used the mineral mix on my raised beds outside. Planning on adding it to my new SIPs I'm working on this week.
> 
> No actual SIP related use yet :/


Let us know how you like it in the SIPS. I may start by trying their stuff in my outdoor SIPS this summer.


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## Jp.the.pope (Jan 17, 2017)

Will keep yall posted. 

@PDX Joe I saw your many sips, what's the largest amount of soil you've used, and how'd you set up the wick. 

I'm leaning towards a 45 gallon sip similar to the ones on albopepper.com 

I'm just having trouble deciding on the best way to integrate an airstone.


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## PDX Joe (Jan 17, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Will keep yall posted.
> 
> @PDX Joe I saw your many sips, what's the largest amount of soil you've used, and how'd you set up the wick.
> 
> ...


The large Earthtainers use 31 gallon totes, but the soil capacity is 24 gallons. The half water barrel SIPS are 27 gallons, but probably about 21 gallons of soil.

The wick on the Earthtainer is a 5" net pot filled with peat/ perlite mix. Here's the design I used by Ray Newstead. His manual rocks and he has a great non-profit to help areas of the world with poor growing soil.

http://earthtainer.tomatofest.com/pdfs/EarthTainer-Construction-Guide.pdf

For the water barrel I used a 4 - 5" layer of clean agricultural sand for the wick. I coil a 4" perforated ag pipe with a drain pipe sock around it to prevent sand from getting into the pipe. This acts as the reservoir. The sand fills in around the pipe and covers it over.

In both designs I like to use a couple layers of weed barrier between the growing medium and wicking medium to prevent roots from growing into the reservoir. I don't like roots in the res. I think this might be the flaw with Autopots which I will be attempting to remedy.


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## Jp.the.pope (Jan 17, 2017)

You sir are amazing. Just the build I was looking for


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## Tim Fox (Jan 17, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> The large Earthtainers use 31 gallon totes, but the soil capacity is 24 gallons. The half water barrel SIPS are 27 gallons, but probably about 21 gallons of soil.
> 
> The wick on the Earthtainer is amy5" net pot filled with peat/ perlite mix. Here's the design I used by Ray Newstead. His manual rocks and he has a great non-profit to help areas of the world with poor growing soil.
> 
> ...


Have you seen all the roots that grow in the octopot sips ? On my last earth box tomato grow I had allot of roots in the res and they were huge tomato plants , my mj grow just finished week eight so we will see later this week when I harvest if my earthbox has water roots this time or not? But the air gap is vital to success


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## ttystikk (Jan 17, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Have you seen all the roots that grow in the octopot sips ? On my last earth box tomato grow I had allot of roots in the res and they were huge tomato plants , my mj grow just finished week eight so we will see later this week when I harvest if my earthbox has water roots this time or not? But the air gap is vital to success


I see no reason why roots in the res would be anything but beneficial.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 17, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> So far I have always used EB Stone in my SIPS. I use their Tomato & Vegetable Food 4-5-3 in the fertilizer trenches. I also mix in some of their Sure Start 4-6-2 throughout the grow medium around the root ball in addition to dolomite lime (growing in peat). But, what I have found with the tomatoes and also the cannabis is that they use the nutes in the soil toward the middle to end of the grow and then I need to supplement with a light feeding of liquid nutes in the reservoir. I typically have used Fox Farm Grow Big or Fox Farm Big Bloom at 1/2 strength or less. Although, I wonder if one might be able to get through an indoor grow without the supplemental liquid nutes because the plants won't be giant 8 foot outdoor plants.
> 
> And I will supplement with Cal-mag in the res if I see a deficiency. My last few summers I have even added a very light amount of worm castings to the grow medium without adverse effects.
> 
> ...


I did the trench nute on my tomato grow it worked well I don't know why I didn't do the trench on my mj grow? My marine cuisine is comingon allitle hot here in late flower


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## Tim Fox (Jan 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I see no reason why roots in the res would be anything but beneficial.


Roots in the res makes it like a Hempy bucket and the lungs thing with air breathing in and out as the res goes up and down


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## PDX Joe (Jan 17, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Have you seen all the roots that grow in the octopot sips ? On my last earth box tomato grow I had allot of roots in the res and they were huge tomato plants , my mj grow just finished week eight so we will see later this week when I harvest if my earthbox has water roots this time or not? But the air gap is vital to success


With tomatoes and other plants like cucumbers if too many roots get into the reservoir then my veggies seem to have a somewhat bland flavor over the ones with roots that stay in the soil. I'm not sure if this would make a difference with cannabis... maybe affect flavor? Also, I like the idea of minimizing the chance of roots possibly rotting in the reservoir.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 17, 2017)

Pwhorums Joe said:


> With tomatoes and other plants like cucumbers if too many roots get into the reservoir then my veggies seem to have a somewhat bland flavor over the ones with roots that stay in the soil. I'm not sure if this would make a difference with cannabis... maybe affect flavor? Also, I like the idea of minimizing the chance of roots possibly rotting in the reservoir.


The lady who runs the local nursery where I bought the tomato plants from said she didn't like!E sips for tomatoes she felt they were to watery something about the soil not drying out , 
My current MJ grow is the best run yet , but I can't see into the res till after the grow


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## PDX Joe (Jan 17, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> The lady who runs the local nursery where I bought the tomato plants from said she didn't like!E sips for tomatoes she felt they were to watery something about the soil not drying out ,
> My current MJ grow is the best run yet , but I can't see into the res till after the grow


Yeah, in general the regular tomatoes tend to be a bit watery and bland. The cherry and roma tomatoes rock... their flavor is great and I get tons of them. I think it might be because they can't get too big with water and they ripen quickly. The SIPS work great for cucumbers and greens.

Sometimes, even with the weed barrier the roots will grow down into the res at the fill tube... aggressive!

What size SIPS do you use and how long do you veg. your plants?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 18, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> The large Earthtainers use 31 gallon totes, but the soil capacity is 24 gallons. The half water barrel SIPS are 27 gallons, but probably about 21 gallons of soil.
> 
> The wick on the Earthtainer is a 5" net pot filled with peat/ perlite mix. Here's the design I used by Ray Newstead. His manual rocks and he has a great non-profit to help areas of the world with poor growing soil.
> 
> ...


i think i might go this route and try to convert this to 27 gallon tough totes (no lowes nearby) based on this design my wick is going to be FAR to big oh well 7.89 down the drain for the one tote lol maybe I will try to take pics of this one as i make it.

thanks for the great info everyone! And for this pdf specifically @PDX Joe !


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## Tim Fox (Jan 18, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> i think i might go this route and try to convert this to 27 gallon tough totes (no lowes nearby) based on this design my wick is going to be FAR to big oh well 7.89 down the drain for the one tote lol maybe I will try to take pics of this one as i make it.
> 
> thanks for the great info everyone! And for this pdf specifically @PDX Joe !


I believe on the first page of this thread there are PDF and plans to build differant storage tub sips


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## Tim Fox (Jan 18, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> i think i might go this route and try to convert this to 27 gallon tough totes (no lowes nearby) based on this design my wick is going to be FAR to big oh well 7.89 down the drain for the one tote lol maybe I will try to take pics of this one as i make it.
> 
> thanks for the great info everyone! And for this pdf specifically @PDX Joe !


another storage tub design


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## Tim Fox (Jan 18, 2017)

extremely simular,, I like these storage tubs,, I will probably build a few for my outdoor salsa garden this summer


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 18, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> extremely simular,, I like these storage tubs,, I will probably build a few for my outdoor salsa garden this summer


yeah i am considering the same!


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## Tim Fox (Jan 18, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> yeah i am considering the same!


I dont have enough Height in my grow cab for the storage tub sips,, 
the earthbox is only 11 inches tall,, so it fits my cab,, only reason i really bought that one


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## Tim Fox (Jan 18, 2017)

Eight weeks flower completed,, its day 57 flower in the grow cab,, the earthbox sip has been such a breeze this grow,, I am getting pretty lucky on the temps and humidity right now


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## PDX Joe (Jan 18, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> another storage tub design


Yes, this is the small version designed by Ray Newstead. His nickname is Raybo on the tomato forums. I made two of these smaller versions and these are the ones I used for my outdoor cannabis and hops. They're also a bit easier to move around. The larger versions are a bear to move.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 18, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Yes, this is the small version designed by Ray Newstead. His nickname is Raybo on the tomato forums. I made two of these smaller versions and these are the ones I used for my outdoor cannabis and hops. They're also a bit easier to move around. The larger versions are a bear to move.


@Humanrob says the same thing about the big sips,, HEAVY!! I sure hope i dont make a big mess this weekend when i try to move the earthbox out of the bedroom


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## PDX Joe (Jan 18, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Eight weeks flower completed,, its day 57 flower in the grow cab,, the earthbox sip has been such a breeze this grow,, I am getting pretty lucky on the temps and humidity right now


Nice and healthy looking.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 18, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Nice and healthy looking.


its been very hands off, no sign of bud rot,, no sign of mold or mildew,, first clean grow in the last couple of years,, and the easiest too,, 
I will probably try the grow box sip next round


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## PDX Joe (Jan 18, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Eight weeks flower completed,, its day 57 flower in the grow cab,, the earthbox sip has been such a breeze this grow,, I am getting pretty lucky on the temps and humidity right now


How long did you veg for? I'm new to indoor growing so I'm trying to get a sense of container size to veg time. I vegged my current plants in my Autopots too long in an attempt to maximize my SCROG net and they are not happy, so I'm going to transplant into the 6 gallon Autopots before I switch to flower. Otherwise, my first indoor grow might be a bust. Oh well, I learned a lot and am going to at least do the SIPS mod for the Autopots and see if that improves the system.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 18, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> How long did you veg for? I'm new to indoor growing so I'm trying to get a sense of container size to veg time. I vegged my current plants in my Autopots too long in an attempt to maximize my SCROG net and they are not happy, so I'm going to transplant into the 6 gallon Autopots before I switch to flower. Otherwise, my first indoor grow might be a bust. Oh well, I learned a lot and am going to at least do the SIPS mod for the Autopots and see if that improves the system.


this is my 4th run thru this grow cab,, so i am getting a pretty good feel for when to FLIP the lights to 12 12,, so it fills the space
every grow has been from clones,, but I go more on size than age as to when to flip,, i need to check, but I think i vegged these for 18 days before flipping


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## PDX Joe (Jan 18, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> this is my 4th run thru this grow cab,, so i am getting a pretty good feel for when to FLIP the lights to 12 12,, so it fills the space
> every grow has been from clones,, but I go more on size than age as to when to flip,, i need to check, but I think i vegged these for 18 days before flipping


Wow, quick veg! Now I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that I've had my plants in veg for 9 weeks, although it was my intention to only veg for about 7-8 weeks, but I decided to wait to go to flower until I get my order of the larger Autopots and get them transplanted. Damn order has taken forever to get here.

The first photo are my plants at about 7 weeks veg. The second photo are the plants at 9 weeks veg. I ditched the two front plants because they never really looked great. But, you can see in the second photo the plants started looking sad and that's when I realized my fatal flaw of vegging too long.


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## caretak3r (Jan 18, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Wow, quick veg! Now I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that I've had my plants in veg for 9 weeks, although it was my intention to only veg for about 7-8 weeks, but I decided to wait to go to flower until I get my order of the larger Autopots and get them transplanted. Damn order has taken forever to get here.
> 
> The first photo are my plants at about 7 weeks veg. The second photo are the plants at 9 weeks veg. I ditched the two front plants because they never really looked great. But, you can see in the second photo the plants started looking sad and that's when I realized my fatal flaw of vegging too long.


I'm no kind of expert grower (unless expert means learning the most ways of NOT doing things), however, I'd venture to say that the sad plants probably has nothing to do with vegging too long... Vegging too long generally just means the plants outgrow the space....


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## Humanrob (Jan 18, 2017)

I was just thinking about how different strains prefer different grow conditions: some like hotter soil, some can be grown closer to lights, some can be trimmed hard while others don't like that... it goes on and on. I'm wondering if some strains adapt to SIPs better than others. We're all pretty much just starting out, but maybe over time we can collect some data. 

The other thing I've been thinking about is how in my early reading on growing cannabis, I read frequently that the number one rookie mistake is overwatering -- that cannabis is not a plant that likes "wet feet". I'm kind of thinking that SIPs fly in the face of that. Some of the lower leaves on my plants have a sort of droopiness that looks to me like a plant that is overwatered, but overall they seem to be thriving. Not sure what to make of that.


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## Humanrob (Jan 18, 2017)

+1 on caretak3r -- I'm no expert, but I also agree that I don't think its an over-vegging issue. Too much time vegging could produce root bound plants, but I think the net result would be nute deficiencies and your plant doesn't seem to be lacking anything. What it looks like to me is a plant that is overwatered... 



caretak3r said:


> I'm no kind of expert grower (unless expert means learning the most ways of NOT doing things), however, I'd venture to say that the sad plants probably has nothing to do with vegging too long... Vegging too long generally just means the plants outgrow the space....





PDX Joe said:


> Wow, quick veg! Now I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that I've had my plants in veg for 9 weeks, although it was my intention to only veg for about 7-8 weeks, but I decided to wait to go to flower until I get my order of the larger Autopots and get them transplanted. Damn order has taken forever to get here.
> 
> The first photo are my plants at about 7 weeks veg. The second photo are the plants at 9 weeks veg. I ditched the two front plants because they never really looked great. But, you can see in the second photo the plants started looking sad and that's when I realized my fatal flaw of vegging too long.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 18, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I was just thinking about how different strains prefer different grow conditions: some like hotter soil, some can be grown closer to lights, some can be trimmed hard while others don't like that... it goes on and on. I'm wondering if some strains adapt to SIPs better than others. We're all pretty much just starting out, but maybe over time we can collect some data.
> 
> The other thing I've been thinking about is how in my early reading on growing cannabis, I read frequently that the number one rookie mistake is overwatering -- that cannabis is not a plant that likes "wet feet". I'm kind of thinking that SIPs fly in the face of that. Some of the lower leaves on my plants have a sort of droopiness that looks to me like a plant that is overwatered, but overall they seem to be thriving. Not sure what to make of that.


well I don't think this can be completely true or else why would things like DWC where the roots are basically always in water the whole time work? Granted it is oxygenated water so that may be the difference and easy way to replicate that would be to add air stones to either your rez or maybe even your wick to make sure the aire really gets to the roots....But to your point @vostok was preaching this exact thing on about page 7 of this thread... however in another point of conjecture... a lot of the organic growers say you should NEVER let your soil dry out all the way as this basically makes the microbes die off or go dormant... I am still learning just like everyone... and have been for many a years about this plant and the different and best way to grow it... I am not sure where the exact balance is but trying to get there!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 18, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> this is my 4th run thru this grow cab,, so i am getting a pretty good feel for when to FLIP the lights to 12 12,, so it fills the space
> every grow has been from clones,, but I go more on size than age as to when to flip,, i need to check, but I think i vegged these for 18 days before flipping


this has got tro be from clone... if not i would never veg a plant so little from seed...


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## PDX Joe (Jan 18, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> I dont have enough Height in my grow cab for the storage tub sips,,
> the earthbox is only 11 inches tall,, so it fits my cab,, only reason i really bought that one


What is the height in your cab? Those Inntainers are around 16" tall. I may even try mine out in my closet, but I may run into height issues to because my closet is only 5.5 feet tall.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 18, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> What is the height in your cab? Those Inntainers are around 16" tall. I may even try mine out in my closet, but I may run into height issues to because my closet is only 5.5 feet tall.


I'm going to be be a little over 7 but still have a huge hid light and cooled hood to deal with hence thinking i will try the Inntainers as well.. the 27 gallon i made is way to big for inside


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## Tim Fox (Jan 18, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> this has got tro be from clone.


yes,, clones sold legally in rec stores here in Oregon


PDX Joe said:


> Those Inntainers are around 16" tall


the earthbox stands 11 inches tall, and i need every inch, the colas are just inches under my exhaust fan now, my Grow Cab is probably six and a half feet,, the floor is probably 4 inch thick and i loss a foot or more up top to the giant exhaust fan, hahaha, i really should pony up for a smaller fan, but this fan is SOOOOO Quiet,, 
I think the actual space for plant material,, meaning the space above the earthbox and below the fan is probably 45 inches,,, i really need to measure it again


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 18, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> well I don't think this can be completely true or else why would things like DWC where the roots are basically always in water the whole time work? Granted it is oxygenated water so that may be the difference and easy way to replicate that would be to add air stones to either your rez or maybe even your wick to make sure the aire really gets to the roots....But to your point @vostok was preaching this exact thing on about page 7 of this thread... however in another point of conjecture... a lot of the organic growers say you should NEVER let your soil dry out all the way as this basically makes the microbes die off or go dormant... I am still learning just like everyone... and have been for many a years about this plant and the different and best way to grow it... I am not sure where the exact balance is but trying to get there!


yes yes yes,, everything you just said


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## PDX Joe (Jan 18, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I'm going to be be a little over 7 but still have a huge hid light and cooled hood to deal with hence thinking i will try the Inntainers as well.. the 27 gallon i made is way to big for inside


That's nice that you have 7 feet of space, seems like you can make it all work with the Inntainers. You could also convert to LED to get more head height. 



Tim Fox said:


> yes,, clones sold legally in rec stores here in Oregon
> 
> the earthbox stands 11 inches tall, and i need every inch, the colas are just inches under my exhaust fan now, my Grow Cab is probably six and a half feet,, the floor is probably 4 inch thick and i loss a foot or more up top to the giant exhaust fan, hahaha, i really should pony up for a smaller fan, but this fan is SOOOOO Quiet,,
> I think the actual space for plant material,, meaning the space above the earthbox and below the fan is probably 45 inches,,, i really need to measure it again


Yeah, I only have about 40 inches from the top of my pots to the bottom of my light when it is raised up as far as it will go... hence the desire for me to use the SCROG. I too think the Inntainers will be a bit too tall in my space. That's okay, I think my adaptation of my Autopots will get me the true SIPS system without the additional height.

Ah, you're a fellow Oregonian... damn winter storm has messed with the 6.5 gallon Autopot delivery.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 18, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> You could also convert to LED


This is my current LED Cob Panel,, DIY Citi cobs meanwell driver, 4000k pulling 250 watts


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 18, 2017)

Trust me I have my eyes set on some timber Cree kits... just trying to get the wife to approve the purchase


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## ttystikk (Jan 18, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Trust me I have my eyes set on some timber Cree kits... just trying to get the wife to approve the purchase


"It will SAVE MONEY on electric bills, honey!" 

Slam dunk.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 20, 2017)

harvested, pics of the harvest over on my grow journal, 
I wanted to show the sip Res,, and the water roots


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## ttystikk (Jan 20, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> harvested, pics of the harvest over on my grow journal,
> I wanted to show the sip Res,, and the water roots


Nice! I'd like to know the finished weight (dried, trimmed) of the plant that came out of that, if you wouldn't mind?


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## PDX Joe (Jan 20, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> harvested, pics of the harvest over on my grow journal,
> I wanted to show the sip Res,, and the water roots


Did you have two plants or one in the container?


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## Tim Fox (Jan 20, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Did you have two plants or one in the container?


2 plants,,, chernobyl and headband


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## Rocket Soul (Jan 21, 2017)

Plant Lobbyist said:


> I am trying a DiY sip-like run consisting of 102l tough boxes as the res using 3g re-usable grocery bags as the wick and 7g fabric pot for growing sitting on top. 2 for each toughbox.
> 
> Wick material is recycled pro-mix hp with some added perlite, vermiculite, epsom, dolomite, rock dust and biologicals. Growing medium is the same + mykos and azos. Plan is to run a few strains to get the hang of it.
> 
> ...



3 gallins is a lot of wick. Try lowering the water surface(less water or if you have access to ress, lower it).
The way i think wicking, the wick kinda creates a water pillar, the wider the wick and the more absorbing the wick material is, the higher the pillar gets. When i maie mine i wanna have the smartpots on a bench with holes drilled for the wick. And have access to the res so it can raised/lowered or even removed for cleaning. If you can increase/decrease the distance the water has to wick you can control humidity in your pots to perfection


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## Plant Lobbyist (Jan 21, 2017)

Rocket Soul said:


> 3 gallins is a lot of wick. Try lowering the water surface(less water or if you have access to ress, lower it).
> The way i think wicking, the wick kinda creates a water pillar, the wider the wick and the more absorbing the wick material is, the higher the pillar gets. When i maie mine i wanna have the smartpots on a bench with holes drilled for the wick. And have access to the res so it can raised/lowered or even removed for cleaning. If you can increase/decrease the distance the water has to wick you can control humidity in your pots to perfection


Thanks!

Working on it. Here is what I have going so far:

1. Plastic separating the wick and grow medium to reduce the flow. That seems to helped the most so far. I open up a hole in the plastic to increase wicking.

2. Punching holes in the growing medium down to the bottom of the grow medium. This seems to help get more air into the grow medium. I used a thin bamboo stick, pushed it down to the bottom, and turned it in a circle to make a dime sized hole.

3. In some of those holes, I put in drinking straws with slits done the length to get more air down. Not sure if it is needed, maybe will work better later when the plants get big.

The height of the wicks is about 10-12" which gives for a 45-60l amount of water in the res. Since I am using fabric pots, I didn't punch a hole in the bottom so the chambers aren't joined. I only want the roots to stay in the grow pot for this run.


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## Organja (Jan 23, 2017)

I want subbed in on this...
Good work guys!

I have an earthbox root and veg box siting in my room now, but I haven't planted anything in it! I am stoked to give it a shot though!! Indoor and out!


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## Organja (Jan 23, 2017)




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## Tim Fox (Jan 23, 2017)

Organja said:


> I want subbed in on this...
> Good work guys!
> 
> I have an earthbox root and veg box siting in my room now, but I haven't planted anything in it! I am stoked to give it a shot though!! Indoor and out!


how much soil do those hold?,, i think a few of thsee in a 3x3 tent would be cool


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## Organja (Jan 23, 2017)

Almost the same as the regular earth box, like 1.5-2.0 cu ft. 
Mound em up high!

Seems like a lot of dirt compared to my little 5 gal pots i usually grow in. So this will kill whatever I have done in the past simply by having more volume for roots! I'm stoked! They are 18" square so yeah, four of them in a 3x3 would be kick ass!


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## Humanrob (Jan 23, 2017)

I'm doing two grows at the moment with so many differences between them its hard to draw any conclusions... but it is raising some questions.

Have any growers using SIPs found that with that almost exponential growth that comes when the roots hit the res, that the plants produce a ton of very thin weak branches? 

I'm finding that the plants I'm growing in SIPs are making TONS very thin branches that can barely stay upright even with the support of a scrog (that they grew through during the stretch). It reminds me of "stress growth" on trees, when 'suckers' start to shoot out of the trunk. Overall the plants -- judged by the leaves -- seem healthy, its just the form they took is odd.

And the oddness became obvious in comparison, in my other tent where I'm just growing in 2 gallon cloth pots, the plants look like stout little bushes, strong stems, big fat colas, hearty -- albeit significantly smaller -- plants. 

@SomeGuy , @hyroot , @Tim Fox --etc.


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## ttystikk (Jan 23, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I'm doing two grows at the moment with so many differences between them its hard to draw any conclusions... but it is raising some questions.
> 
> Have any growers using SIPs found that with that almost exponential growth that comes when the roots hit the res, that the plants produce a ton of very thin weak branches?
> 
> ...


You just need to thin things a bit.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 23, 2017)

what are you guys thinking is a good size for mom sips? just a 5 gallon bucket version should be ok eh? My 3 gallon fabric potted moms got to be about 6 foot 5 with just some really shtty old florescent lights... so thinking a 5 gallon bucket sip may even be over kill lol what you cats think?


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## Humanrob (Jan 23, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> You just need to thin things a bit.


I appreciate the thoughts. I did two big waves removing small branches. With the Chernobyl and especially the Cinex, they were all thin branches so I just removed about half of them. The Jack Herer is a bit beefier, but the rest are really wimpy. Tons of foliage, but no spine. Maybe it was just poor choice of strains or weak stock the clones came from. On the other hand, the ones in the 2 gallon fabric pots only got topped once and trimmed once, they just didn't need anything else. There are enough variables and differences between the grows that it could have nothing to do with the SIPs, I realize that. Just wondering.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 23, 2017)

I had lots of branches this time around as well , I made so many changes this grow that it's hard to say if it was all the sip


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## Organja (Jan 23, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> I had lots of branches this time around as well , I made so many changes this grow that it's hard to say if it was all the sip


Maybe sips are best for Moms if they produce mega branching eh? This is interesting and I'll be sure to report on my sip as it goes...


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## PDX Joe (Jan 24, 2017)

So, I modified the large 6.6 gallon Autopots. I created a bench for the growing medium with two wicks. This provides for an air gap between the water reservoir and grow medium. I used a piece of 1/4" thick food grade HDPE for the bench. The wicks are 2" ABS pipe and there are two additional bench supports made from 1.5" ABS pipe. I also drilled a hole just above the water line to admit fresh air into the air gap.


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## PDX Joe (Jan 24, 2017)

I added the Autopot root sock to the bottom of the pot to prevent any coco or perlite flowing out into the fill valve and jamming it. The wicks were filled with 50/50 coco perlite mix. I covered the bench and wicks with two layers of weed cloth and then added the grow medium. I'm going to prevent roots from entering the reservoir. I also covered the pot with a plastic sheet. We will see how this goes. The plant I put into it was seriously root bound, so I'm not sure if it will recover for flowering.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 25, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I added the Autopot root sock to the bottom of the pot to prevent any coco or perlite flowing out into the fill valve and jamming it. The wicks were filled with 50/50 coco perlite mix. I covered the bench and wicks with two layers of weed cloth and then added the grow medium. I'm going to prevent roots from entering the reservoir. I also covered the pot with a plastic sheet. We will see how this goes. The plant I put into it was seriously root bound, so I'm not sure if it will recover for flowering.


way cool,, good mods, thats a happy plant!


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## Humanrob (Jan 25, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I added the Autopot root sock to the bottom of the pot to prevent any coco or perlite flowing out into the fill valve and jamming it. The wicks were filled with 50/50 coco perlite mix. I covered the bench and wicks with two layers of weed cloth and then added the grow medium. I'm going to prevent roots from entering the reservoir. I also covered the pot with a plastic sheet. We will see how this goes. The plant I put into it was seriously root bound, so I'm not sure if it will recover for flowering.


Very nice work on the improvements to the design! I'm looking forward to seeing the progress on that grow. If you don't have a grow thread for this one, feel free to periodically let us know how its going here. What strain is she?


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## PDX Joe (Jan 25, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> way cool,, good mods, thats a happy plant!


Unfortunately the plant doesn't seem to like the transplant. I suspect the Autopots are not a system conducive to an emergency transplant. I think maybe the roots at the bottom of the pot are too sensitive to the shock and I probably damaged them a bit with the move. I'm going to give this plant a few more days and if it doesn't perk up then it's gone and I'll reset. Oh well, I learned a lot on this first attempt. I think my biggest lesson is I need to shorten my veg time a lot. I think sticking with a month of veg would have been perfect. I was attempting to max out my SCROG, but that backfired on me. I think just growing a couple of healthy smaller plants and get them into flower ASAP would have made for an easier first indoor grow. Also, starting with the large Autopot would have given the roots more room and just less overall hassle. I figure it's probably good to make all these mistakes up front and then sort of understand my limitations.


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## PDX Joe (Jan 25, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Very nice work on the improvements to the design! I'm looking forward to seeing the progress on that grow. If you don't have a grow thread for this one, feel free to periodically let us know how its going here. What strain is she?


Thanks. The strain is Barney's Blue Cheese. The plant had a nice growth pattern. But, I think I pushed my luck in veg trying to max out the plant and should have gone to flower a long time ago. Waiting for the larger pot set me back a couple weeks and the plant is really starting to suffer with the transplant. SIPS and Autopots are just not made for transplant... but I had to at least attempt it. The plant was super root bound. I have to keep in mind my light is only 250 watts of LED, so I may not be able to veg big plants and might need to focus on shorter veg times to keep the plants healthy and vigorous.

For my next grow I am going to use the large Autopots. I think I will run one plant with the modified Autopot and one plant with the original Autopot side by side and see what system works best.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 25, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Unfortunately the plant doesn't seem to like the transplant. I suspect the Autopots are not a system conducive to an emergency transplant. I think maybe the roots at the bottom of the pot are too sensitive to the shock and I probably damaged them a bit with the move. I'm going to give this plant a few more days and if it doesn't perk up then it's gone and I'll reset. Oh well, I learned a lot on this first attempt. I think my biggest lesson is I need to shorten my veg time a lot. I think sticking with a month of veg would have been perfect. I was attempting to max out my SCROG, but that backfired on me. I think just growing a couple of healthy smaller plants and get them into flower ASAP would have made for an easier first indoor grow. Also, starting with the large Autopot would have given the roots more room and just less overall hassle. I figure it's probably good to make all these mistakes up front and then sort of understand my limitations.


I would wait it out man sometimes these plants will really surprise you.


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## PDX Joe (Jan 25, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I would wait it out man sometimes these plants will really surprise you.


Yeah, I will give it chance. And I could maybe get a few good clones off it if it doesn't work out... instead of having to start from seeds again. Actually, I might try that anyway as a backup plan.


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## ttystikk (Jan 25, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Yeah, I will give it chance. And I could maybe get a few good clones off it if it doesn't work out... instead of having to start from seeds again. Actually, I might try that anyway as a backup plan.


You gave it a big drink when you transplanted it, right?


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## PDX Joe (Jan 25, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> You gave it a big drink when you transplanted it, right?


Yeah, I gave it a drink. But, I used 1/2 strength nutes, just to dampen the medium and provide some food while the plant settles in.


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## ttystikk (Jan 25, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Yeah, I gave it a drink. But, I used 1/2 strength nutes, just to dampen the medium and provide some food while the plant settles in.


I would have advised you to use normal strength nutrients and water until you see some dribble into the res underneath. Then, let it dry out until it's just getting moisture from beneath. It's been working very well for me here.


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## Dirty White Boy (Jan 25, 2017)

Based on what? There is so many issues here to point out I'm almost about to puke or convulse.....does no one here read old school threads.....


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## Jp.the.pope (Jan 25, 2017)

Dirty White Boy said:


> Based on what? There is so many issues here to point out I'm almost about to puke or convulse.....does no one here read old school threads.....


For example....


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## PDX Joe (Jan 25, 2017)

Dirty White Boy said:


> Based on what? There is so many issues here to point out I'm almost about to puke or convulse.....does no one here read old school threads.....


Throw a bomb and walk away? You're welcome to add to the conversation. I read a lot... I wouldn't be on a social grow forum if I didn't. I'm sure at least half the stuff I do isn't the "best" or "right" way... just trying stuff out.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 25, 2017)

It's really nice to see this sip thread growing legs and with regular posters


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## Thorhax (Jan 26, 2017)

i miss my SIPs..currently undergoing some....upgrades=] so waiting on SIPs until my rooms are all dialed in perfectly.

glad to see people killing it.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 26, 2017)

Dang...who shit in that dudes cereal???


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## Tim Fox (Jan 26, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Dang...who shit in that dudes cereal???


I wont even look at my watch


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## Humanrob (Jan 26, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Dang...who shit in that dudes cereal???


When I first read "puke or convulse" I knew feeding him would be a mistake... it's best left alone. That "ignore" function is kind of cool.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 26, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> When I first read "puke or convulse" I knew feeding him would be a mistake... it's best left alone. That "ignore" function is kind of cool.


I have noticed that SIP growers are a laid back cool bunch, I also have noticed that many of us SIP growers do veggeis and other things outdoors in the summer,,,, 
HEY they are starting up a "Salsa Challenge" if anyone wants the link when it gets going,, I will probably do another big tomato along with the other salsa plants in regular containers,,


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## Jp.the.pope (Jan 26, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> I have noticed that SIP growers are a laid back cool bunch, I also have noticed that many of us SIP growers do veggeis and other things outdoors in the summer,,,,
> HEY they are starting up a "Salsa Challenge" if anyone wants the link when it gets going,, I will probably do another big tomato along with the other salsa plants in regular containers,,


Link me my good man


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## Plant Lobbyist (Jan 26, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> It's really nice to see this sip thread growing legs and with regular posters



Maybe ask the admins for a subforum? There are lots of discussions to warrant it.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 26, 2017)

Plant Lobbyist said:


> Maybe ask the admins for a subforum? There are lots of discussions to warrant it.


i wonder,, would that be placed in "advanced growing" section


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## Plant Lobbyist (Jan 26, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> i wonder,, would that be placed in "advanced growing" section



Wherever is best.

Costco is now selling raised bed 'grow anywhere' SIPs for $99. Looks to be about a 2x3


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## Tim Fox (Jan 26, 2017)

Plant Lobbyist said:


> Wherever is best.
> 
> Costco is now selling raised bed 'grow anywhere' SIPs for $99. Looks to be about a 2x3


no way,, got a link,, i need some outdoor planters


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## Plant Lobbyist (Jan 26, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> no way,, got a link,, i need some outdoor planters



Was at the warehouse yesterday - Canadian costco. No link online.


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## PDX Joe (Jan 26, 2017)

I think my goal with the large 6.6 gallon Autopots is to first try and run a side by side with the modified SIP Autopot and the regular Autopot using coco and the Jacks 321 that I'm using now and see how they compare. If the SIP Autopot works better than the regular Autopot, then I think I may try using it with peat and organic slow release dry fertilizer as a top dress and see if I can use this system as a true SIP system.

However, I'm a bit concerned with the 6.6 gallon size as a true SIP. I heard from Build-A-Soil that they recommend a minimum of 15 gallon containers when using organic fertilizer and SIP. If that is true then I may even look to making a new SIP out of two nested half 55 gallon plastic water barrels. I could cut the half water barrel down to a reasonable height... maybe 12" tall and use the Autopot float valve in a separate small tray as an automatic fill system. That would allow me to not only have the water in the SIP reservoir but also my aerated water in the separate 12 gallon reservoir. This would prevent me from having to pour water down the fill tube unless I wanted to add some form of supplements to the SIP reservoir. ...unless someone else wants to try it first...


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## PDX Joe (Jan 26, 2017)

On a side note... I have a nice colony of earthworms in my outdoor SIPs and I did not put them there. I have noticed this the last few years. They figure out how to crawl in.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 26, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> On a side note... I have a nice colony of earthworms in my outdoor SIPs and I did not put them there. I have noticed this the last few years. They figure out how to crawl in.


I had worms in my outdoor sip tomato last summer,, they were in there when i dumped it, smaller than earthworms,


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## SomeGuy (Jan 26, 2017)

The worms will hatch from worm castings. Usually small embrio does not get screened out of the castings and they make it into the bag w the castings. So it's possible they came from your dirt.


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## PDX Joe (Jan 26, 2017)

SomeGuy said:


> The worms will hatch from worm castings. Usually small embrio does not get screened out of the castings and they make it into the bag w the castings. So it's possible they came from your dirt.


Ah, the last couple of years I have started to add some worm castings to my soil.


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## SomeGuy (Jan 26, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Ah, the last couple of years I have started to add some worm castings to my soil.


There ya go. Chances are worms are not making the trek up your sip to get in the dirt


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 26, 2017)

I'm hoping to do a VERY large outdoor garden thished year!


PDX Joe said:


> I think my goal with the large 6.6 gallon Autopots is to first try and run a side by side with the modified SIP Autopot and the regular Autopot using coco and the Jacks 321 that I'm using now and see how they compare. If the SIP Autopot works better than the regular Autopot, then I think I may try using it with peat and organic slow release dry fertilizer as a top dress and see if I can use this system as a true SIP system.
> 
> However, I'm a bit concerned with the 6.6 gallon size as a true SIP. I heard from Build-A-Soil that they recommend a minimum of 15 gallon containers when using organic fertilizer and SIP. If that is true then I may even look to making a new SIP out of two nested half 55 gallon plastic water barrels. I could cut the half water barrel down to a reasonable height... maybe 12" tall and use the Autopot float valve in a separate small tray as an automatic fill system. That would allow me to not only have the water in the SIP reservoir but also my aerated water in the separate 12 gallon reservoir. This would prevent me from having to pour water down the fill tube unless I wanted to add some form of supplements to the SIP reservoir. ...unless someone else wants to try it first...


That thing is gonna weigh a LOT I made a 27 gallon SIP that I am now using just as a soil cooker basically.. planning on going down to 14 gallon SIPS with the seedlings I have going now. Specifically going to make and try out the "intainer" posted earlier in this thread.


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## Organja (Jan 29, 2017)

Subbed!
I will be running an earthbox soon!
Go team SIP!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 29, 2017)

SomeGuy said:


> There ya go. Chances are worms are not making the trek up your sip to get in the dirt


Hey you would be surprised how far those things can make it up the inside of my worm bins! But yeah that would be something to see.. worms crawling up the outside to get in hahaha


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## Adrosmokin (Jan 31, 2017)

Gonna try making my own SIP. Is there a standard ratio for the size of the wick container to the overall container? Don't want it too big.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 31, 2017)

Adrosmokin said:


> Gonna try making my own SIP. Is there a standard ratio for the size of the wick container to the overall container? Don't want it too big.


check out the inntainer seems like a great place to start to me .... plans are on page 21 of this thread i think


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## wwfjdraw (Feb 1, 2017)

Can any capillary mat be used to deliver nutrients though the mat through smart pots? I want to use them till harvest with my advanced nutrients brand. I also want to try using net pots with coco and hydroton, (the type used in dwc).


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## wwfjdraw (Feb 1, 2017)

Can anyone tell me how waterpulse vortex mats are better than the usual cheap capillary mats anyone can use with something like blumat surface? I have a terraponic be and a blumat surface I have many net pots (the kind used in DWC) and fabric pots (smart pots), I figure if I get capillary mat then all I need is nutrients which I have and I should be all set right?


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## PDX Joe (Feb 1, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I added the Autopot root sock to the bottom of the pot to prevent any coco or perlite flowing out into the fill valve and jamming it. The wicks were filled with 50/50 coco perlite mix. I covered the bench and wicks with two layers of weed cloth and then added the grow medium. I'm going to prevent roots from entering the reservoir. I also covered the pot with a plastic sheet. We will see how this goes. The plant I put into it was seriously root bound, so I'm not sure if it will recover for flowering.


So, I found out a couple things with this modification. The two layers of weed fabric prevented proper wicking of moisture up into the pot. My outdoor SIPs don't seem to have a problem with the weed fabric, but this setup didn't like it. I also noticed the Inntainer doesn't have a weed fabric in it either, so I will try it without the weed fabric. The other thing is this mod definitely needs the plastic cover on top to keep the coco moist. I left the plastic cover off for a week and it got bone dry, but part of this was due to the poor wicking of the water.

Also, has anyone used Jack's 321 in a bottom wicking system? I worry about the high K in this fertilizer and it building up in the coco. It just seemed the further I got into the grow the more the plants seem to be calcium and mag deficient and I believe this can be due to high K issues in coco. Any thoughts?

I'm really tempted to go with peat, dolomite and dry organic fertilizer in this system on my next grow. It's what I am comfortable with when growing in my outdoors SIPs.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 2, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> So, I found out a couple things with this modification. The two layers of weed fabric prevented proper wicking of moisture up into the pot. My outdoor SIPs don't seem to have a problem with the weed fabric, but this setup didn't like it. I also noticed the Inntainer doesn't have a weed fabric in it either, so I will try it without the weed fabric. The other thing is this mod definitely needs the plastic cover on top to keep the coco moist. I left the plastic cover off for a week and it got bone dry, but part of this was due to the poor wicking of the water.
> 
> Also, has anyone used Jack's 321 in a bottom wicking system? I worry about the high K in this fertilizer and it building up in the coco. It just seemed the further I got into the grow the more the plants seem to be calcium and mag deficient and I believe this can be due to high K issues in coco. Any thoughts?
> 
> I'm really tempted to go with peat, dolomite and dry organic fertilizer in this system on my next grow. It's what I am comfortable with when growing in my outdoors SIPs.


I just got the base needs to make up some 14 gallon intainers and yeah no weed fabric in the parts list so it should be interesting to see how it goes... ugh i forgot my damn grommets for the water level indicator..back to the dam store for a little $0.52 part lol gonna be making at least 5 of these for my new seedlings and sending the older clones into flower tonight... 2 months of veg in the inntainer and these things might be monsters... im going to have to do some major lst and scrogging i think lol


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## Tim Fox (Feb 2, 2017)

i have never used weed fabric in my sip,, 
I have seen it used,, 
your experaments are really helping us all,, thanks for sharing the data,,


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## Tim Fox (Feb 2, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I just got the base needs to make up some 14 gallon intainers and yeah no weed fabric in the parts list so it should be interesting to see how it goes... ugh i forgot my damn grommets for the water level indicator..back to the dam store for a little $0.52 part lol gonna be making at least 5 of these for my new seedlings and sending the older clones into flower tonight... 2 months of veg in the inntainer and these things might be monsters... im going to have to do some major lst and scrogging i think lol


monsters for sure,, really looking forward to watching your grow!


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## Humanrob (Feb 2, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I just got the base needs to make up some 14 gallon intainers and yeah no weed fabric in the parts list so it should be interesting to see how it goes... ugh i forgot my damn grommets for the water level indicator..back to the dam store for a little $0.52 part lol gonna be making at least 5 of these for my new seedlings and sending the older clones into flower tonight... 2 months of veg in the inntainer and these things might be monsters... im going to have to do some major lst and scrogging i think lol


I'll be interested to see how this goes. What strains are you going to run -- specifically, what I'm interested in is flower time? If you run a 10 week sativa after vegging for 8 weeks, that would be a really long stretch to go on the dry nutes that are part of the initial set up. I am not saying it wouldn't work, I really have no idea -- but I would definitely like to see the results. There is no science yet to how much dry nutes to put in initially and whether to try and add more (whether to the soil or the res) during the run.


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## PDX Joe (Feb 2, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I just got the base needs to make up some 14 gallon intainers and yeah no weed fabric in the parts list so it should be interesting to see how it goes... ugh i forgot my damn grommets for the water level indicator..back to the dam store for a little $0.52 part lol gonna be making at least 5 of these for my new seedlings and sending the older clones into flower tonight... 2 months of veg in the inntainer and these things might be monsters... im going to have to do some major lst and scrogging i think lol


What nutrients are you going to use? I was looking at EB Stone and Espoma, but I'm not totally sure about which NPK mix. I've read some growers using one mix in veg and then top dressing with another mix more suited to flowering after the flip.


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## PDX Joe (Feb 2, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I'll be interested to see how this goes. What strains are you going to run -- specifically, what I'm interested in is flower time? If you run a 10 week sativa after vegging for 8 weeks, that would be a really long stretch to go on the dry nutes that are part of the initial set up. I am not saying it wouldn't work, I really have no idea -- but I would definitely like to see the results. There is no science yet to how much dry nutes to put in initially and whether to try and add more (whether to the soil or the res) during the run.


I was wondering if maybe top dress with a flowering dry nutes might work after the flip? Scratch it in a bit and maybe water it in a little... or try and open up the original dry nute troughs and add the flower nutes? You could maybe top dress and then cover it with a thin layer of compost/ worm castings to get the micros to start breaking it down?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 2, 2017)

Im going to be running Female Seeds C99 (worried as i have grown this in the past and she is stretchy lol) and Iced grapefruit and Money Maker by Strain Hunters (it was cheap and wanted to see what the strain hunter hype was about)... maybe I will have to start up a journal lol.. all my nutes are in the soil i dont know that i will be adding anything to the rez ... i dont even know if i will add teas to the rez i might just top water with them as to not have contamination in it ... we will see.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 2, 2017)

i have a pre cooked soil that i will be using hopefully i have enough for all to fill all of these lol if not i guess i might be using this old fox farms on a few and seeing what happens...

here is my soil mix... approx... it has been used once or twice and re amended

pete moss 7.5 gal
worm castings 3.75 gal
compost (sadly i had to use organic promix here as i had moved and lost my established pile) 3.75 gal
perlite 7.5 gal
lime 3 cups
glacial rock dust 12 cups
thats my base
then i mix my amendments together as below
kelp meal 6 cups
epsoma tomato tone 3 cups
alfalfa meal 3 cups
neem meal 3 cups
crab meal 3 cups
finely ground egg shells about 3 cups
azomite about a cup

I then take a total of 7.5 cups of the amendment mix and add it and all of this is let to sit for at least 4 weeks... really thinking on it now i dont think i have enough to fill 5 14 gallon SIPs so i may be doing some comparison growing ... by force lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 2, 2017)

I even have 2 strains that i have 2 seedlings each so can get a decent comparison... obviously there will be phenotype differences but still should be interesting!


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## Tim Fox (Feb 3, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> i have a pre cooked soil that i will be using hopefully i have enough for all to fill all of these lol if not i guess i might be using this old fox farms on a few and seeing what happens...
> 
> here is my soil mix... approx... it has been used once or twice and re amended
> 
> ...


very nice soil mix,, top notch


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## Tim Fox (Feb 3, 2017)

Hey @PDX Joe what was up with your auto pots that made you want to convert them to sip function?,, sorry if i missed that part


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## PDX Joe (Feb 3, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Hey @PDX Joe what was up with your auto pots that made you want to convert them to sip function?,, sorry if i missed that part


Yeah, I guess I didn't really explain my rationale. I'm only happy if I'm constantly tinkering with stuff.

Well, that's only half the reason. Actually, what interested me in the Autopot system was the automated gravity fed sub-irrigation system and not so much the idea of moving to a full hydro system. I like that I can keep my reservoir outside the closet in a cool location and aerate the water as well. I also don't lose any height in my closet because there isn't a big reservoir at the bottom of the pot.

But, I have to say I am not very happy so far with how the Jack's 321 with Canna coco worked in this system. The plants grew relatively fast, but from day one I had consistent deficiencies that never went away and in the end got very bad. Now... a lot of it is probably my fault. However, from reading a lot of other posts of growers using Autopots with salt nutes and my experience too... I'm not sure if salt nutes are the best fertilizer in a sub-irrigation system. What I saw and read was the salt nutes built up in the pot over time and really spiked and it caused lockout that I couldn't overcome. I kept my EC relatively low at 1.4 max and usually more around 1.2 and still had problems. I tried to do an emergency flush, even though Autopot doesn't recommend flushing. The runoff was up around EC 3.0! 

In defense of Jack's 321 + coco, I know a lot of people are having great success. But, it seems like growers using top feed drain to waste and even hempy's are having the best success with this combo. And so I wonder if it is because the new solution introduced at the top of the pot helps leach out any old salt buildup. But, with Autopots being a closed system you just don't get this leaching happening. Even with hempy's you top water first until the res. at the bottom is full and this would provide some leaching of old salts from the medium.

The other thing I read on other posts and I also experienced was some of the Autopots bottoms went anaerobic and got some root rot. I think there is a reason why the Autopot company introduced those air domes in order to pump more air into the bottom of the pot. My thought is why not introduce an air gap and wicks to the Autopot similar to an Earthbox, Earthtainer or Octopot design in order to solve this issue.

And, I also thought... why am I changing the way I grow? I am most comfortable with growing in peat and using organic fertilizers and plain non-PH'd tap water. Shouldn't I be sticking with what I'm good at instead of reinventing my grow process? In order to do that I wanted to modify the Autopot to be as close as possible to a typical SIP design with the air gap, wick, plastic moisture cover and top dressed organic fertilizer. So, here I am. Woo...man that was long winded.


----------



## Tim Fox (Feb 3, 2017)

Very well said, I went on a long reading journey this morning seeing if peat or coco would work in the auto pots and I did find some threads on Coco in the earthbox. But I did not dig deep enough in to see how the salt nutes worked so you saved me big time , I did a short hempy grow and stopped because turkey baster emptying the run off was like pulling teeth. But today I found a guy who put the rubber grommet in the hempy buckets overflow hole with a drain hose into a catch tray. I still can't bring myself to the place where I have to mix nutes and pH bucket loads of water , just the idea of growing bigger colas is like the Tim Allen tool time effect where we growl like men and growncolas that are as big as water bottles


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 3, 2017)

First 14 gallon intainer made!.... I doubt this thing will hold even 7 gallons of soil though, after cutting it apart I will still try this round with these though. Not to bad for construction... but need to find my jigsaw for the rest lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 3, 2017)

14 gallon intainer!


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## PDX Joe (Feb 3, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> 14 gallon intainer!


I dig the green... very appropriate.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 3, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I dig the green... very appropriate.


On sale too


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## Tim Fox (Feb 3, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> 14 gallon intainer!


What if you slid the inner container inside the outer container without cutting the inner container shorter , by leaving it full size the top would stick out above and give more space for soil?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 3, 2017)

Hmm there is an overflow hole in the design but it was left out of the plans so I didn't add it... where do you all think it should be and how large?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 3, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> What if you slid the inner container inside the outer container without cutting the inner container shorter , by leaving it full size the top would stick out above and give more space for soil?


Yeah depending on how much soil I can get in these I may do that.. I think if I can get at least 7 gallons I will use 1 per plant and scrog some monsters!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 3, 2017)

These are also so nice and neat! I could just cut a hole in the center lid and put a seedling in there and use it to retain moisture!


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## Tim Fox (Feb 3, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Hmm there is an overflow hole in the design but it was left out of the plans so I didn't add it... where do you all think it should be and how large?


@Humanrob puts rubber grommet s and a 90 elbow then clear tubing instead of over flow hole the it doubles as a res level indicator


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## Tim Fox (Feb 3, 2017)

[QUOman ="meangreengrowinmachine, post: 13352701, member: 609408"]These are also so nice and neat! I could just cut a hole in the center lid and put a seedling in there and use it to retain moisture![/QUOTE]
Yea man being able to snap that lid on sounds trick custom


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 3, 2017)

Yeah I did that so just make a line where you want your air gap and don't fill past it right? Also the grommet and barbed elbow I think is the biggest pain in the ass in making these imo lol


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## PDX Joe (Feb 3, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Hmm there is an overflow hole in the design but it was left out of the plans so I didn't add it... where do you all think it should be and how large?


Doesn't the Inntainer have a fill indicator tube and not a drain hole? If you're just doing a drain hole then you want it about an inch below the soils container bottom so that it maintains a 1" air gap between the water and the bottom of the soil. It could maybe be 1/4" hole and be okay.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 3, 2017)

I feel there needs to be a way for air to freely get into the air gap unless using a air stone 
My last grow the overflow flow hole was sometimes a pain for me when water would run along the underside and miss the pan


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 3, 2017)

I'm tempted to try to run an air stone into the net pot itself and mimic that video posted far earlier in the thread.. maybe try that and then one with an air stone down the fill tube and one with nothing...


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## Humanrob (Feb 3, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> 14 gallon intainer!


I did a variation on that, where I dropped a whole 14 gallon into an 18 gallon, instead of cutting the top one. That allowed me to have about 12 gallons of soil over 5 gallons of water. Worked nicely, but it was a bit tall.



meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yeah I did that so just make a line
> where you want your air gap and don't fill past it right? Also the grommet and barbed elbow I think is the biggest pain in the ass in making these imo lol


Yes, I put a line on the tube at 1" below the lid level as a fill indicator, and I cut it about a 1/4" below lid level as an overflow opening.

I love the overall concept, you can keep an eye on the water rising as your are filling. I have a watering can with a thin spout that I was able to squeeze a length of garden hose over. I can put the end of the hose right into the fill tube and not worry about spilling while I watch the water rise in the clear tube. Mine did tend to fog up over the course of the grow, but my city (or my old house) might have unique water.


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## wwfjdraw (Feb 4, 2017)

In theory NFT mat should be perfect. They are used to grow marijuana in tubes might as well use them to grow on a table.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 5, 2017)

wwfjdraw said:


> In theory NFT mat should be perfect. They are used to grow marijuana in tubes might as well use them to grow on a table.


I am trying to understand what your talking about,,, NFT mats?,, is that a SIP?,, doesnt sound like one?,, got pictures?,,,


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 5, 2017)

1st of the individual sips screens.. hope it's high enough and wondering how I should attach it to the SIP... maybe some large pvc end caps hot glues to the side on the SIP and just set the ends in? Just don't want to have the screen moving around too much when moving the sips from veg to flower... also wondering what you guys think on this... so my seedlings are already about 10 inches high in their starters (large yogurt containers) and I want to bury the stem length when transplanting... but I'm worried that doing so I will end up putting the roots directly on the wick.... will this cause issues with too much water and possibly drown the plant or stunt transplanting? Should I plant it off to the side? (that will kill my ocd lol) what do you all think ?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 5, 2017)

Oops here's the pic


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## Tim Fox (Feb 5, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Oops here's the pic


Doubles as a lawn chair
Looks good man


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## PDX Joe (Feb 5, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> 1st of the individual sips screens.. hope it's high enough and wondering how I should attach it to the SIP... maybe some large pvc end caps hot glues to the side on the SIP and just set the ends in? Just don't want to have the screen moving around too much when moving the sips from veg to flower... also wondering what you guys think on this... so my seedlings are already about 10 inches high in their starters (large yogurt containers) and I want to bury the stem length when transplanting... but I'm worried that doing so I will end up putting the roots directly on the wick.... will this cause issues with too much water and possibly drown the plant or stunt transplanting? Should I plant it off to the side? (that will kill my ocd lol) what do you all think ?


Couldn't you just drill holes in the pvc end caps and bolt the caps to the lid edge and then the legs could slide into the caps? I wouldn't use hot glue... that could make a mess.


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## Jp.the.pope (Feb 6, 2017)

45 gallon intainer mod....about 80% done. Need to finish the aeration bench and stiffen her up a bit. Adding airstones to the res too. Three of these bad boys


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 6, 2017)

those suckers are going to be HEAVY but should grow you some monsters!


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## Jp.the.pope (Feb 6, 2017)

Designed to be stationary for sure


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## Tim Fox (Feb 6, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> View attachment 3894751 45 gallon intainer mod....about 80% done. Need to finish the aeration bench and stiffen her up a bit. Adding airstones to the res too. Three of these bad boys
> 
> View attachment 3894749


Are you going to drill holes in the floor?


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## Jp.the.pope (Feb 6, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Are you going to drill holes in the floor?


Yup. Still need to finish the aeration table (floor), and the overflow, airstones holes


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 10, 2017)

well in this down time i finished all the SIPs and transplanted the "seedlings" woot woot i was wondering if RIU was ever coming back lol


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## Tim Fox (Feb 24, 2017)

Welcome back everyone

I got my new sip deleivered,,, its a Grow box,,


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 24, 2017)

hey welcome back is right! Mine are up and running!


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## Tim Fox (Feb 24, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> hey welcome back is right! Mine are up and running!


i saw a guys thread and he found a way to get pics up,, 
and its snowing again at my house


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 24, 2017)

ooh nice! pics are even back!? and yeah weather has been insane lately all over lol


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## Tim Fox (Feb 24, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> ooh nice! pics are even back!? and yeah weather has been insane lately all over lol


not sure if regular pics are back,, i think he used an external picture site,, kinda like when people post you tube video links,, the links are still working


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## ruwtz (Feb 24, 2017)

SiP noob here, looking for some advice.

I've been trying to run SiP in my nursery "seedling" phase with pretty poor results.

The following stages are close to dialed except the nursery:

-- Room 1: bubble cloner > nursery SiP > veg ebb&flow, then into >>>
-- Room 2: bloom drip dtw

So out of the bubbler I have excellent roots established and 2-4 healthy nodes, then into 1/2gal coco pots for the SiP. I add extra holes to the pots to help the coco to wick up.

Very basic SiP: pots in planter trays under T5HO, watering at pH 5.8 / 0.5-0.7EC consisting of Hydroguard, kelp and fulvic and rooting stimulator such as Rapid Start.

Room 74F / 60-65%RH.

Nursery stage is typically 2 weeks before I can pot up for veg.

Problems are pretty drastic: no new growth, poor root development, significant leaf paling, all within 4-7 days. When I remove from SiP and flush with plain water they bounce back.

I'm convinced the problem is in the root zone as those originally healthy roots take a turn for the worst.

The tray of water never looks too great either and sometimes gathers a slimy film on top. Obvious pathogen or algae or unwanted bacteria. Due to the setup its impractical to cover the SiP from light etc, and I am currently considering scrapping it altogether and running a small E&F or perhaps more bubblers (not ideal as its up on a shelf).

I would like to persevere with SiP if I can get it right. @Wisher2 originally showed me the way but I've never gotten get his results.

Can't show pics here right now, but what any thoughts from you guys? Is it cover or die? Do you add airstones?


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## Wisher2 (Feb 24, 2017)

well I run coco and out of the gate I feed at full strength 1.5ec .....even seeds

the only thing I have ever run is hydroguard

I never run any kind of bennies or anything organic

when I plant or transplant I use bennies in the hole

when using sips I pour nutrient solution into the tray and allow the plants to soak it up.....I then dont feed again until about 1/4-1/2 of the medium has dried


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## Wisher2 (Feb 24, 2017)

ruwtz said:


> SiP noob here, looking for some advice.
> 
> I've been trying to run SiP in my nursery "seedling" phase with pretty poor results.
> 
> ...


the problem you are having is you are not feeding your coco

you have to feed your coco

when your rooted clones come out of the cloner they are looking for food

NPK's

since you are running fulvic/micro life/and rapid start you are basically feeding micro life.....but there is nothing to feed the clones

your clones should be hitting your veg ec right out of the gate

if you are not comfortable with that high ec then use 1/2 to 3/4's of your veg strength
say .75-1.0 but it has to be NPK's not root enhancers and microlife

I would suggest you can innoculate the coco with mycos or recharge or whatever

but if you want to run rapid....use in the cloner
hydroguard for the res if you want

as for the actual solution in the sips

just NPK's

Jacks plus cal nit if that is what you are still using

Greene genes made a video about Jacks

he also uses it right out of the gate


I now use VegBloom by hydroponic-research
4g per gal of RO brings be to 1.4 with a ph 5.8

it is a dry salt base
basically Jacks with added Fulvic/Humic Carbs
enzymes etc.....

pertty bomb stuff


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 24, 2017)

I guess I really don't get the point of SIPS with all these mixed nutes.. for me the goal is making this less work.


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## Wisher2 (Feb 24, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I guess I really don't get the point of SIPS with all these mixed nutes.. for me the goal is making this less work.


what do you mean

it is simple

from cloner into coco in a pot into a tray with nutrient solution
the coco soaks it up

it is called passive hydroponics

super easy

you use the same feed as all the veg


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 24, 2017)

Yeah bit still gotta mix up all those nutes and such... bah!  Lol each to his own man just my take on SIPS


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## Wisher2 (Feb 24, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yeah bit still gotta mix up all those nutes and such... bah!  Lol each to his own man just my take on SIPS


what do you mean mix up nutes


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## Wisher2 (Feb 25, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yeah bit still gotta mix up all those nutes and such... bah!  Lol each to his own man just my take on SIPS


I run the same nutes through the entire plants life

I make a 55gal drum of nutrients

I turn on the spigot and fill up a gallon jug a pour into the trays for my sips

the 55gal is on a timer which feeds my flower room

nute strength never changes

it takes me all of about 5 min every 3 weeks to mix my nutrients

once every couple days I fill a jug for sips

I dont think it could get any easier unless I planted in ground and let rain water my plants

I dont have "All these nutes to mix up"

I run 1 dry powder @ 4g per gal

anyone using a bottle is taking way more time on it than I

anyone running organic.....brewing ewc tea and bennies and all that shit

taking way more time than I

99% of my time now is spent touching and talking to my plants

no bottles
no ratios
no checking ph or ec

nutrients fall to 5.8ph with an ec of 1.4-1.5

I dont really know how much easier it can get


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## Jp.the.pope (Feb 26, 2017)

New SIP first of three. 

Looks like a 10ish gal res and about 30 - 35 gal soil. Airstone in the res.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 26, 2017)

Wisher2 said:


> I run the same nutes through the entire plants life
> 
> I make a 55gal drum of nutrients
> 
> ...


Are you using jacks?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 26, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> New SIP first of three.
> 
> Looks like a 10ish gal res and about 30 - 35 gal soil. Airstone in the res.
> 
> ...


Hey you posted pics!!!


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## Wisher2 (Feb 26, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Are you using jacks?


no I am using Veg+Bloom by Hydroponic-Research


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## PDX Joe (Feb 28, 2017)

I popped a few seeds and my plan is try the organic route for my indoor SIPs. I think this is what I'll try:

Medium: Sunshine Mix #4 with additional course perlite
Dolomite Lime
Down to Earth Starter Mix 3-3-3 - mixed into the soil around the transplanted root ball
Down to Earth Bio Live 5-4-2 - top dress in trench at top of pot
Down to Earth Rose & Flower - top dress around the beginning of flowering
Worm castings - top dress
Malibu Biodynamic Compost - top dress
Bokashi - top dress for mycelium 
May use some azomite or basalt mixed into grow medium?
Recharge - occasional top drench for beneficial bacteria
Plain tap water in reservoir - air stones in res
May add coconut water in reservoir as needed.

So, it will be interesting to see how this goes. Any thoughts?


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## Evil-Mobo (Feb 28, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I popped a few seeds and my plan is try the organic route for my indoor SIPs. I think this is what I'll try:
> 
> Medium: Sunshine Mix #4 with additional course perlite
> Dolomite Lime
> ...


Will be watching as I am loving organics and miss the simplicity of the SIP.......


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## Jp.the.pope (Feb 28, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I popped a few seeds and my plan is try the organic route for my indoor SIPs. I think this is what I'll try:
> 
> Medium: Sunshine Mix #4 with additional course perlite
> Dolomite Lime
> ...


Coconut water into the res you say?


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## PDX Joe (Feb 28, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Coconut water into the res you say?


Well, maybe... not completely sure on it. Supposedly it has some natural growth hormones and calcium. I'm thinking using as a supplement to the dolomite rather than using bottled Cal-Mag in the res. I'll use the shelf stable coconut water powder... mix with water to reconstitute.


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## Jp.the.pope (Mar 1, 2017)

I use the same powder. Only to top feed. I was worried about all the sugars in the res. Keep us posted


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2017)

Im going to organic route and seems to be working like gang busters so far! and SIPS are so easy! Fill the res and just let em go! I'm still on my first run with the 14 gallon inntainers (they end up only being about 7 gallons of soil after all is said and done) and still in Veg so we will see if i need to supplement during flowering but hopefully should be good with just water and some air stones in the rez.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2017)

my soil recipe should be earlier in this thread if anyone is interested


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## PDX Joe (Mar 1, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> I use the same powder. Only to top feed. I was worried about all the sugars in the res. Keep us posted


Good point... so the coconut water can get frothy? I suppose any sugars might make a mess in the res. I might rethink that one.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2017)

im very hesitant to add anything but water to my rez tbh.. if i feel the need to add teas i will add them to the top.. but i think many people do add nutes or teas to their rez.. im just hesitant this first go round


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## budLIFE60 (Mar 1, 2017)

Hey havent posted in a bit here are my new sip conatianers I'm giving a try.
Ran into a few issues I didn't like with my old sips. I find this way to be much easier to deal with IMO. 

Found this idea on the web. What I did was cut my 4inch perferated drain pipe long ways so it fit in my container. Then I capped every end so it looked like this
 
Next I drilled a hole in the top of one end of the drain pipe for my watering pipe to run into. At the other end I drilled a hole 1 inch from the top of the drain pipe and one through my container for an overflow.
(Don't mind my dogs paw in this shot)
 
And that's pretty much all the prep work! Then I just filled the containers with some super soil, my plants and covered with about 2 inches thick of mulch. Looks something like this 
 

Plants seem to love it so far!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2017)

nice man!


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## Jp.the.pope (Mar 1, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Good point... so the coconut water can get frothy? I suppose any sugars might make a mess in the res. I might rethink that one.


Did you get the powder from BAS? Also that intainer design works for 45 gal bins  

About 10 gal res / 30-35 soil


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## Jp.the.pope (Mar 1, 2017)

Reason I ask is I got mine from BAS. It is sugary but only frothy when I also add agsil16H as an emulsifier / silica source


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## Jp.the.pope (Mar 1, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> New SIP first of three.
> 
> Looks like a 10ish gal res and about 30 - 35 gal soil. Airstone in the res.
> 
> ...


Clover cover crop is starting to come in. Will post new photos in a few days. Hopefully have some green clovers for St. Paddys


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## PDX Joe (Mar 1, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Did you get the powder from BAS? Also that intainer design works for 45 gal bins
> 
> About 10 gal res / 30-35 soil


I actually haven't purchased the powder yet. But, I have been looking at the BAS product. It sounds like BAS makes sure their powder doesn't have any funky preservatives. I'm wondering if there might be another place to get it from, but I think a lot of the powders are geared more towards the health food market and might have some extra junk in it that may not be great in gardening. But, I am going off of speculation and based on an interview I heard with Jeremy at BAS and Clackamas Coot.

I wonder if the coconut water sugars might buildup in small tubing or will stay dissolved.


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## Evil-Mobo (Mar 1, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I actually haven't purchased the powder yet. But, I have been looking at the BAS product. It sounds like BAS makes sure their powder doesn't have any funky preservatives. I'm wondering if there might be another place to get it from, but I think a lot of the powders are geared more towards the health food market and might have some extra junk in it that may not be great in gardening. But, I am going off of speculation and based on an interview I heard with Jeremy at BAS and Clackamas Coot.
> 
> I wonder if the coconut water sugars might buildup in small tubing or will stay dissolved.


I have been using the BAS coconut and aloe for a while now and am VERY pleased with the results. The foliar sprays with the mix is just heaven to the plants too. However, I would caution in adding this to the res on a SIP, because the instructions cleary state since there's no presatives etc the product does not last before going bad it's meant for immediate use. I have bubbled it in water before feedings with no issues and never clogged my sprayer either. 

Their Clover crop seed mix is wonderful too and does the trick to keep the worms happy.


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## PDX Joe (Mar 1, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> I have been using the BAS coconut and aloe for a while now and am VERY pleased with the results. The foliar sprays with the mix is just heaven to the plants too. However, I would caution in adding this to the res on a SIP, because the instructions cleary state since there's no presatives etc the product does not last before going bad it's meant for immediate use. I have bubbled it in water before feedings with no issues and never clogged my sprayer either.
> 
> Their Clover crop seed mix is wonderful too and does the trick to keep the worms happy.


Okay, cool. So you mix the aloe and coconut water together as a foliar? I've heard a bit about the aloe. What does it do... is it simply a surfactant/ wetting agent to transfer the coco water to the leaves?


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## Wisher2 (Mar 1, 2017)

can someone please explain to me why anyone uses an air stone in the res

Makes no sense to me
you dont need disolved oxygen in the res if the res is acting like a natural basin and the roots and media wick it up
oxygen will come from the top when the top of the media dries

I dont get the extra gadgets that have only anecdotally done anything with no proof

Just Wondering

I have been using this method of growing container tomatoes for about 10 years and have never heard of anyone using air stones in the res

@PDX Joe

when top dressing....are you going to be watering in from the top

I have always had much better success building my grow media and allowing it to cook for a while before I use it...kinda like a weaker version of super soil....with all the goodies and micro life living and working at full tilt before dropping my plants in....another thing that helps is actual worms in the media replicating nature


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2017)

i add air stones as I do not want the standing water to turn anaerobic... i am a noob to SIPs though so maybe just being paranoid... sounds like you have some experience with them and they are unnecessary? mine are not really that big of a deal just two little air stones i move between 5 SIPs every few days.


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## Jp.the.pope (Mar 1, 2017)

Wisher2 said:


> can someone please explain to me why anyone uses an air stone in the res
> 
> Makes no sense to me
> you dont need disolved oxygen in the res if the res is acting like a natural basin and the roots and media wick it up
> ...


I added then for the same reason as @meangreengrowinmachine 

Just worried about it going anaerobic. My SIPs also have a 10 gal res, so I was worried about the amount of time between fillings. 

What are your thoughts?


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## Bugeye (Mar 1, 2017)




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## Tim Fox (Mar 1, 2017)

ruwtz said:


> SiP noob here, looking for some advice.
> 
> I've been trying to run SiP in my nursery "seedling" phase with pretty poor results.
> 
> ...


how can you have the 1 " air gap if your containers are sitting in a tray of water?,, i bet thats the issue


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## Tim Fox (Mar 1, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I guess I really don't get the point of SIPS with all these mixed nutes.. for me the goal is making this less work.


i am not sure they are talking about the same thing we are doing, Sips really are not hydroponics, just bottom watered soil containers, filling a try with water and allowing a container to soak it up, and then letting it dry out about half way before adding more water/nutes is by defanition a flood drain table


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## PDX Joe (Mar 1, 2017)

Wisher2 said:


> can someone please explain to me why anyone uses an air stone in the res
> 
> Makes no sense to me
> you dont need disolved oxygen in the res if the res is acting like a natural basin and the roots and media wick it up
> ...


You're right, I have grown exclusively outdoors using SIPs for about a decade for my veggies and haven't used airstones and they have worked great. But, I recently set up an indoor grow room and had some airstones... so I figured I'd go ahead and use them. Mainly I want the airstones to bubble off chlorine of my tap water before it comes in contact with any micro life. I do use a plastic mulch cover on the top of the SIPs to keep the top of the soil moist. Mycelium supposedly like the top compost zone to be somewhat anaerobic. So, the idea is to provide some extra oxygen to the roots from the res. rather than at the top of the pot.

I can imagine cooking the soil is a great way to go in order to get a nice rich mix. But, I simply top dress and it has worked well for me and I like the idea by top dressing it may avoid making the grow medium too dense/ heavy, which may reduce the wicking and cause the grow medium to be a bit too wet. I am thinking about setting up the pots with the soil and top dress ahead of time to get the "soil web" going before the transplant.

When you cook your soil do you water it in a bit to provide moisture and get all the micro life going?


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 1, 2017)

My new Sip @meangreengrowinmachine @Humanrob 
some unboxing pics and some side by side pics with the grow box next to the earthbox,,
I like the front fill point on the brow box instead of a fil tube,, plus i no longer have to worry about over filling and run off as i can see the water level, i can also see the water roots 
the earthbox has a 2.5 gallon res,, closer to 2 really,, and the new grow box has a 4-5 gallon res,, its going to be so much nicer to have the bigger res capacity


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 1, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> I added then for the same reason as @meangreengrowinmachine
> 
> Just worried about it going anaerobic. My SIPs also have a 10 gal res, so I was worried about the amount of time between fillings.
> 
> What are your thoughts?


here is a sip with a 10 gallon res,, and another with a 15 or 18 gallon res

credit to hyroot and someguy


----------



## Wisher2 (Mar 1, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> i am not sure they are talking about the same thing we are doing, Sips really are not hydroponics, just bottom watered soil containers, filling a try with water and allowing a container to soak it up, and then letting it dry out about half way before adding more water/nutes is by defanition a flood drain table


flood no drain

very definition of a sub irrigated planter

plant sits in a media placed in a container which is placed in another container and irrigated from the bottom

things like perlite or coco or hydroton can be used and the media will wick up the water


in the planter you are using the same concept apply's
you could use your planter and fill with coco and fill the res with nutes and get great results

I started building self watering containers way before "Sips" ever came out

I use organic soil and tap water

works the same as my hydroponic setup


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 1, 2017)

Wisher2 said:


> flood no drain
> 
> very definition of a sub irrigated planter
> 
> ...


ok


----------



## Wisher2 (Mar 1, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> here is a sip with a 10 gallon res,, and another with a 15 or 18 gallon res
> 
> credit to hyroot and someguy


that looks like a passive hydro system to me


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 1, 2017)

Wisher2 said:


> that looks like a passive hydro system to me


they are Octopot clones
http://www.octopot.com/


----------



## Wisher2 (Mar 1, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> You're right, I have grown exclusively outdoors using SIPs for about a decade for my veggies and haven't used airstones and they have worked great. But, I recently set up an indoor grow room and had some airstones... so I figured I'd go ahead and use them. Mainly I want the airstones to bubble off chlorine of my tap water before it comes in contact with any micro life. I do use a plastic mulch cover on the top of the SIPs to keep the top of the soil moist. Mycelium supposedly like the top compost zone to be somewhat anaerobic. So, the idea is to provide some extra oxygen to the roots from the res. rather than at the top of the pot.
> 
> I can imagine cooking the soil is a great way to go in order to get a nice rich mix. But, I simply top dress and it has worked well for me and I like the idea by top dressing it may avoid making the grow medium too dense/ heavy, which may reduce the wicking and cause the grow medium to be a bit too wet. I am thinking about setting up the pots with the soil and top dress ahead of time to get the "soil web" going before the transplant.
> 
> When you cook your soil do you water it in a bit to provide moisture and get all the micro life going?


I get a 50 gal tote and then mix all my amendments + micro life with worm castings and ro water then put the lid on and allow it to work for about 2 weeks

when you pull the lid there will be a giant webbing accross the top......
I then mix the soil up and place in the container
fill the hole with more micro life inoculant plant and water with ewc tea
I then fill the res with Tap and that is it

I use the super oldschool homemade sips with 2 containers or 2 buckets with the drain hole in the side

I fill the basin about every 2-3 days just to move the water a little


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 1, 2017)

Wisher2 said:


> I get a 50 gal tote and then mix all my amendments + micro life with worm castings and ro water then put the lid on and allow it to work for about 2 weeks
> 
> when you pull the lid there will be a giant webbing accross the top......
> I then mix the soil up and place in the container
> ...


no school like the old school,, those 5 gallon bucket sips are so easy to build,, 

So if i ran coco and put nutes in my res ,, would it be more like a hempy bucket in nature?


----------



## PDX Joe (Mar 1, 2017)

Wisher2 said:


> I get a 50 gal tote and then mix all my amendments + micro life with worm castings and ro water then put the lid on and allow it to work for about 2 weeks
> 
> when you pull the lid there will be a giant webbing accross the top......
> I then mix the soil up and place in the container
> ...


Actually, I saw the Grokashi guy sets his Earthboxes up a week or two early and lets them sit before he plants in them. Okay, I'm going to try the early setup and see how it goes.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Actually, I saw the Grokashi guy sets his Earthboxes up a week or two early and lets them sit before he plants in them. Okay, I'm going to try the early setup and see how it goes.


I will be using my giant 27 gallon sip for just cooking soil i think.. Or i might move it outside it weighs so much lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2017)

here are some pics of my 14 gallon inntainers


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## Wisher2 (Mar 1, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> no school like the old school,, those 5 gallon bucket sips are so easy to build,,
> 
> So if i ran coco and put nutes in my res ,, would it be more like a hempy bucket in nature?


yeah that is pretty much exactly what it becomes


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 1, 2017)

Wisher2 said:


> yeah that is pretty much exactly what it becomes


alright, i get it ,, hum,, what I hated about doing hempy buckets was having to soak up the runnoff with a turkey baster,, long story but it sucked eggs!!,,, but the thought of hempy / Sip that i dont have to do that with?,, 
are you saying a sip running Nutes in the res instead of the soil would outperform a nutes in the soil sip?,,, welcome the insights


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> alright, i get it ,, hum,, what I hated about doing hempy buckets was having to soak up the runnoff with a turkey baster,, long story but it sucked eggs!!,,, but the thought of hempy / Sip that i dont have to do that with?,,
> are you saying a sip running Nutes in the res instead of the soil would outperform a nutes in the soil sip?,,, welcome the insights


if you dont mind going no organic i bet it would be killer!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2017)

organic is just my preference and looking to find a low maintenance low amount of moving parts to break system for organic soil in a larger scale pot ... is why I personally got into sips.. if i has still into nutes i would do some hempy buckets with lucas formula or maybe even try out some jacks.. i started with fox farms like a stupid nub lol ... which is why I probably dont like nutes lol so many different bottles of BS lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2017)

hempy bucket growth can be VERY fast!


----------



## Wisher2 (Mar 1, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> alright, i get it ,, hum,, what I hated about doing hempy buckets was having to soak up the runnoff with a turkey baster,, long story but it sucked eggs!!,,, but the thought of hempy / Sip that i dont have to do that with?,,
> are you saying a sip running Nutes in the res instead of the soil would outperform a nutes in the soil sip?,,, welcome the insights


yeah
it would basically be a DWC with coco instead of say hydroton

people have been growing passive like that for a long time

in Holland alot of people would run SOG
with coco in 1/2 gal containers stacked together
each container has a wick which hangs below into a res with nutes

or for organic just amended soil with the wick hanging in water

with mineral nutes you dont need to aerate 
and for water no aeration necessary


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2017)

Wisher2 said:


> yeah
> it would basically be a DWC with coco instead of say hydroton
> 
> people have been growing passive like that for a long time
> ...


hmm i like this idea....


----------



## Wisher2 (Mar 1, 2017)

this is what I use for my seedlings and cuttings


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2017)

Wisher2 said:


> View attachment 3897566
> 
> this is what I use for my seedlings and cuttings
> View attachment 3897567


the part i didnt like about hempys was getting that water out of that saucer so it didnt raise the humidity a ton but yeah wicking is a great idea .. i would love to make a huge foot print water rez with a SOG in 1 gallon pots run like 15 to 20 plants under my 600 watt hps and not have to water them all the time


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 1, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> organic is just my preference and looking to find a low maintenance low amount of moving parts to break system for organic soil in a larger scale pot ... is why I personally got into sips.. if i has still into nutes i would do some hempy buckets with lucas formula or maybe even try out some jacks.. i started with fox farms like a stupid nub lol ... which is why I probably dont like nutes lol so many different bottles of BS lol


it would have to be easy,, or knowing me,, i wont do the work, hahaha,, lazy i know
but, i felt like when i was doing the hempy bucket grow, that if I knew exactly how m any tablesppons of the nutes to put into say 5 gallons of water and just repeat every time,, then i woul dnot have to use meters and ph pens blah blah,, so it becomes easy,, and then just pour it into the Sip res like usual?,,, if its just that easy,, then maybe it would be easy,, or it may be the blue dream talking


----------



## Wisher2 (Mar 1, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> it would have to be easy,, or knowing me,, i wont do the work, hahaha,, lazy i know
> but, i felt like when i was doing the hempy bucket grow, that if I knew exactly how m any tablesppons of the nutes to put into say 5 gallons of water and just repeat every time,, then i woul dnot have to use meters and ph pens blah blah,, so it becomes easy,, and then just pour it into the Sip res like usual?,,, if its just that easy,, then maybe it would be easy,, or it may be the blue dream talking


I use powder nutes and weigh by grams per gal
never really ph or anything

I have widdled my grows down to basically 1 step
fill res with dry nutes and water when running low
res is marked per gal so I just count the gallons that I fill and put that many g per gal back in

same amount weighed every time


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2017)

Wisher2 said:


> I use powder nutes and weigh by grams per gal
> never really ph or anything
> 
> I have widdled my grows down to basically 1 step
> ...


my goal is for my grow to be kinda boring lol.. i know that sounds weird but then once that happens i can start tweaking and playing with other things and strains or C02 etc


----------



## Jp.the.pope (Mar 1, 2017)

Clovers coming


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 2, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> my goal is for my grow to be kinda boring lol.. i know that sounds weird but then once that happens i can start tweaking and playing with other things and strains or C02 etc


A consistently working foundation is the very best platform for making changes and observing the results.


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 3, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> my goal is for my grow to be kinda boring lol.. i know that sounds weird but then once that happens i can start tweaking and playing with other things and strains or C02 etc


my last grow was almost boring,, I need to give boring another try,, see if i can make


----------



## PDX Joe (Mar 3, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> my last grow was almost boring,, I need to give boring another try,, see if i can make


Boring = low stress = more enjoyable gardening


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 3, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Boring = low stress = more enjoyable gardening


and it sure was fun, relaxing, and I really have to keep that in mind when i start getting Grand ideas,,


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## Jp.the.pope (Mar 4, 2017)

Finally got all 3 sips humming along  clover cover crop seems to be holding down the moisture also.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 5, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Finally got all 3 sips humming along  clover cover crop seems to be holding down the moisture also.
> 
> View attachment 3899881
> View attachment 3899882
> View attachment 3899884


Very nice


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## Jp.the.pope (Mar 5, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Very nice


Why thank you Mister Fox


----------



## oragrow (Mar 8, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I'm doing a couple right now. One is based on a 14 gallon Rubbermaid container inside of an 18 gallon. The other is tall narrow #7 pot mated to a 5 gallon bucket. Both still need to have their drain holes drilled -- btw, how much (in inches) of an air space should I leave between the water line and the bottom of the soil container?
> 
> View attachment 3648300 View attachment 3648299 View attachment 3648298 View attachment 3648306 View attachment 3648305 View attachment 3648301 View attachment 3648302 View attachment 3648304


Great Idea , will try it indoors and at least 1 plant outdoor this summer.


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## Humanrob (Mar 8, 2017)

oragrow said:


> Great Idea , will try it indoors and at least 1 plant outdoor this summer.


Wow, that has to be a quote from a while ago! LOL The 14/18 worked really well. It is a bit tall, but that's only an issue if you have vertical limitations. I'm sure I'll use those again. The other ones I mentioned -- the (basically) 5 gallon pot in a 5 gallon bucket, only held about a gallon of water and needed to be filled daily. The plants in them got to be 5+ feet tall, so if you are going that way I would start late so they don't get root-bound.

If you are going to run SIPs outdoors, I recommend either digging a hole and dropping the res part in, or using something like straw or some light colored fabric to keep the res out of the sun. I think keeping the water cool is good for the standing water, and good for the plant. The bottom line for me is that since I'm in a situation where I can put plants directly into the ground, nothing beats mother earth. SIPs are great for outdoor patio gardens, or if you are only doing planter/pot gardening. But if you have access to good soil and open ground, for me that has grown the sturdiest healthiest lowest maintenance plants. YMMV


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## oragrow (Mar 8, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Wow, that has to be a quote from a while ago! LOL The 14/18 worked really well. It is a bit tall, but that's only an issue if you have vertical limitations. I'm sure I'll use those again. The other ones I mentioned -- the (basically) 5 gallon pot in a 5 gallon bucket, only held about a gallon of water and needed to be filled daily. The plants in them got to be 5+ feet tall, so if you are going that way I would start late so they don't get root-bound.
> 
> If you are going to run SIPs outdoors, I recommend either digging a hole and dropping the res part in, or using something like straw or some light colored fabric to keep the res out of the sun. I think keeping the water cool is good for the standing water, and good for the plant. The bottom line for me is that since I'm in a situation where I can put plants directly into the ground, nothing beats mother earth. SIPs are great for outdoor patio gardens, or if you are only doing planter/pot gardening. But if you have access to good soil and open ground, for me that has grown the sturdiest healthiest lowest maintenance plants. YMMV


Last year, I wasn't on RIU much. Read your SIP thread thought I would reply.


----------



## Humanrob (Mar 8, 2017)

oragrow said:


> Last year, I wasn't on RIU much. Read your SIP thread thought I would reply.


Glad you found it useful, a lot of people have contributed a lot of good information to this thread. SIPs definitely have solid advantages, it's just finding the right fit for the situation at hand. I look forward to hearing how your grow goes


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## frankslan (Mar 18, 2017)

Is anyone doing a sip no till style. How are you guys re-amending?


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## PDX Joe (Mar 18, 2017)

frankslan said:


> Is anyone doing a sip no till style. How are you guys re-amending?


My outdoor SIPs are no till. I don't do shit to them over the winter. I leave the root balls in them all winter and don't even bother covering them. In the spring I amend with some lime and a little bit of worm castings. I might scrape out a little bit of the old roots before planting. Then it's just organic slow release dry ferts. This year I'm going to try a top dress with worm castings, Bu's Biodynamic and bokashi. I'll probably add some azomite as well. I use my soil for about three years and then add it to my yard landscaping.


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## frankslan (Mar 18, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> My outdoor SIPs are no till. I don't do shit to them over the winter. I leave the root balls in them all winter and don't even bother covering them. In the spring I amend with some lime and a little bit of worm castings. I might scrape out a little bit of the old roots before planting. Then it's just organic slow release dry ferts. This year I'm going to try a top dress with worm castings, Bu's Biodynamic and bokashi. I'll probably add some azomite as well. I use my soil for about three years and then add it to my yard landscaping.


Cool so just a top dress and then a layer of EWC. 

do you have earthworms in it? Also do you mulch or use the plastic?


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## Tim Fox (Mar 18, 2017)

GOod Morning Sip Growers


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## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> GOod Morning Sip Growers


Good morning. I'm SIPping my coffee...


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## Jp.the.pope (Mar 18, 2017)

Me too. Freshly roasted last night


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Me too. Freshly roasted last night


Just the coffee?


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## Tim Fox (Mar 18, 2017)

flowers i bought my wife,, sitting under some CREE Leds on the kitchen island


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 18, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Me too. Freshly roasted last night


I got "Freshly Roasted" last night myself hahhaah


----------



## Jp.the.pope (Mar 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Just the coffee?


So far. Bought to visit the ladies and jump on that double entendre


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 18, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> So far. Bought to visit the ladies and jump on that double entendre


Pounce on that stuff!!


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## Jp.the.pope (Mar 18, 2017)

Half Way there


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## Jp.the.pope (Mar 18, 2017)

SIPs otherwise I'm just a jerk bragging about coffee.....


Cover crop is holding in all moisture  big sips ftw


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## Tim Fox (Mar 18, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> SIPs otherwise I'm just a jerk bragging about coffee.....
> 
> 
> Cover crop is holding in all moisture  big sips ftw
> ...


i have really learned to DIG the look of cover crop lately,, just ads an homey natural feeling


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## Humanrob (Mar 18, 2017)

My household was roasted/toasted/and lit up on some of @Tim Fox 's excellent headband bud, and cannabudder brownies last night. Big thanks Mr. Fox


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## Humanrob (Mar 18, 2017)

I love the cover crop, @Jp.the.pope -- the only thing I've used (mostly outdoors) is red clover, what else are you using? (sorry if you've 'covered' that already... my memory is weak and my laziness is strong...)


----------



## Jp.the.pope (Mar 18, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I love the cover crop, @Jp.the.pope -- the only thing I've used (mostly outdoors) is red clover, what else are you using? (sorry if you've 'covered' that already... my memory is weak and my laziness is strong...)


I bought a micro clover mix from build a soil. It has like 12 different kinds of seed. All help fix different nutrients. 

I'll see if I can find a link. On a side note, all my plants are loving it. Sip and no sip.


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## Humanrob (Mar 18, 2017)

I think I found it - ?
https://buildasoil.com/products/clover-cover-crop-blend-13-seed-buildasoil-mix-40-clover

Looks awesome.


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## Jp.the.pope (Mar 18, 2017)

You are correct sir


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> flowers i bought my wife,, sitting under some CREE Leds on the kitchen islandView attachment 3908362


Wow, those really pop!
She's a lucky lady- and you're a sly old fox...


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> I bought a micro clover mix from build a soil. It has like 12 different kinds of seed. All help fix different nutrients.
> 
> I'll see if I can find a link. On a side note, all my plants are loving it. Sip and no sip.


So I'm a bit confused on this; do these cover crops add nutes to the soil in a similar way that legumes are nitrogen fixers? Do you till them in at some point? I'm curious about the mechanism involved.


----------



## Jp.the.pope (Mar 18, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I think I found it - ?
> https://buildasoil.com/products/clover-cover-crop-blend-13-seed-buildasoil-mix-40-clover
> 
> Looks awesome.


Humanrob posted the link. I assumed it was a similar process, if not the same process, to legumes.


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Mar 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> So I'm a bit confused on this; do these cover crops add nutes to the soil in a similar way that legumes are nitrogen fixers? Do you till them in at some point? I'm curious about the mechanism involved.


In my soil I layer the cover crop with Barley mulch. With new pots of no till usually after about the second go around you look underneath and then see the white film. Then the house is a rocking! I just layed down my first layer of mulch over the first cover crop layer tonight, can't wait, the worms were all happy up top too.


----------



## Humanrob (Mar 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> So I'm a bit confused on this; do these cover crops add nutes to the soil in a similar way that legumes are nitrogen fixers? Do you till them in at some point? I'm curious about the mechanism involved.


My understanding is that clover is a nitrogen fixer like legumes. We use it as a cover crop in our outdoor gardens for areas that we are not using.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 18, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> My understanding is that clover is a nitrogen fixer like legumes. We use it as a cover crop in our outdoor gardens for areas that we are not using.


I just read a news item that said several States are starting to pay farmers to do cover crops for moisture retention, soil building and to anchor fertilizers so they don't run off into rivers.


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## PDX Joe (Mar 19, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Half Way there
> 
> View attachment 3908368


Ha! You make coffee like me. I use a Chemex on a scale.


----------



## PDX Joe (Mar 19, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I just read a news item that said several States are starting to pay farmers to do cover crops for moisture retention, soil building and to anchor fertilizers so they don't run off into rivers.


Also, don't want the topsoil blowing away.


----------



## PDX Joe (Mar 19, 2017)

Check this out. I just root pruned my fig tree... getting it ready for spring. I lined the entire whiskey barrel with weed cloth and a double layer of weed cloth on the bottom, but check out how aggressive the fig roots are. This tree has been in this pot for three years and the roots grew right through the fabric. Just goes to show you can't fight the roots. They will find the reservoir.


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Check this out. I just root pruned my fig tree... getting it ready for spring. I lined the entire whiskey barrel with weed cloth and a double layer of weed cloth on the bottom, but check out how aggressive the fig roots are. This tree has been in this pot for three years and the roots grew right through the fabric. Just goes to show you can't fight the roots. They will find the reservoir.
> View attachment 3909509


I'm still wondering what the advantage is in keeping the roots out of the res to begin with? I've run RDWC for a long time and roots in the res was kinda the whole point!


----------



## PDX Joe (Mar 20, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm still wondering what the advantage is in keeping the roots out of the res to begin with? I've run RDWC for a long time and roots in the res was kinda the whole point!


Three years of uninhibited root growth could maybe clog up the reservoir, overflow holes and fill tube cutting down on water capacity and limiting air intake from the bottom. But, with an annual plant I suppose it really wouldn't be much of an issue. I'm going to omit the weed cloth for my indoor SIPs and see how it goes.


----------



## newguy41410 (Mar 20, 2017)

hey guys, forgive me if i am posting in the wrong section, but i am growing a pretty unique style and i think SIP is the most similar concept to mine (capillary action and perlite) so i am hoping you guys can give me your experienced SIP feedback as I am a first-time grower.

I germinated seeds in paper towel and put them in 16 ounce solo cups filled with 100% perlite. These cups have holes in the bottom where 8" long thermolam (fleece) wicks hang out. I drilled three-inch holes in the lid of a Ten-Gallon Tote for the solo cups to sit in. So the solo cups sit in the holes where the wicks hang and soak in 300 PPM jack's+Calcinit solution. So capillary action should pull water up throgh the wicks into the perlite cups.

if you frequent icmag.com you probably know this design as the "PPK Cloner" but has been known to propogate seeds just as well.

*Im just wondering if you guys suggest I top water using a kitchen baster once in a while when using this method? if so, how often and how much water at a time (kitchen baster holds one ounce of water btw)? or should i never top water and just let the wicks keep the perlite moist/dry for me? What would my babies appreciate more??*

sorry, i am a first-time grower and IMO perlite feels drier to the touch than other mediums do so im so tempted to top water. just dont know if its a good idea or how much i should specifically, if so.


----------



## PDX Joe (Mar 20, 2017)

newguy41410 said:


> hey guys, forgive me if i am posting in the wrong section, but i am growing a pretty unique style and i think SIP is the most similar concept to mine (capillary action and perlite) so i am hoping you guys can give me your experienced SIP feedback as I am a first-time grower.
> 
> I germinated seeds in paper towel and put them in 16 ounce solo cups filled with 100% perlite. These cups have holes in the bottom where 8" long thermolam (fleece) wicks hang out. I drilled three-inch holes in the lid of a Ten-Gallon Tote for the solo cups to sit in. So the solo cups sit in the holes where the wicks hang and soak in 300 PPM jack's+Calcinit solution. So capillary action should pull water up throgh the wicks into the perlite cups.
> 
> ...


I suggest top watering them for the first watering in order to start the capillary action, and then rely exclusively on the wicking action after that. I've never used 100% perlite, so I don't know at what rate water will evaporate from the top of the cups and if the top of the cups will dry out too fast. Although, if you room air humidity is up in the 60 - 70% range then I wouldn't think the perlite would dry out too fast.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 22, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> SIPs otherwise I'm just a jerk bragging about coffee.....
> 
> 
> Cover crop is holding in all moisture  big sips ftw
> ...


 ah winter growing inside in the cold... the only time you see the humidifiers lol... also... showing you age with those VHS tapes in the previous post hahaha... just joshing ya... welcome to the thread! beautiful plants!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 22, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Ha! You make coffee like me. I use a Chemex on a scale.


areo press is the only way to fly man! LOVE mine!


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 22, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Check this out. I just root pruned my fig tree... getting it ready for spring. I lined the entire whiskey barrel with weed cloth and a double layer of weed cloth on the bottom, but check out how aggressive the fig roots are. This tree has been in this pot for three years and the roots grew right through the fabric. Just goes to show you can't fight the roots. They will find the reservoir.
> View attachment 3909509


Hesus christ man! you are literally growing TREES!? that's awesome! i need to get off my ass dang I'm slacking...


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 22, 2017)

newguy41410 said:


> hey guys, forgive me if i am posting in the wrong section, but i am growing a pretty unique style and i think SIP is the most similar concept to mine (capillary action and perlite) so i am hoping you guys can give me your experienced SIP feedback as I am a first-time grower.
> 
> I germinated seeds in paper towel and put them in 16 ounce solo cups filled with 100% perlite. These cups have holes in the bottom where 8" long thermolam (fleece) wicks hang out. I drilled three-inch holes in the lid of a Ten-Gallon Tote for the solo cups to sit in. So the solo cups sit in the holes where the wicks hang and soak in 300 PPM jack's+Calcinit solution. So capillary action should pull water up throgh the wicks into the perlite cups.
> 
> ...


i would just use hempy bucket logic on something like this


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## PDX Joe (Mar 22, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Hesus christ man! you are literally growing TREES!? that's awesome! i need to get off my ass dang I'm slacking...


Figs like their roots restricted a bit, so they do okay in pots.


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## bicit (Mar 23, 2017)

Hmm just a question, haven't read the thread all the way through. I've noticed that most of you seem to use fabric pots with some sort of soil wick dripping down into the reservoir. I was wondering why you choose that design?

I've been setting up beds similar to this(picture shamelessly stolen off the interwebs). Using a 27 gallon tough tote and 3" perforated drain pipe Coiled around the bottom and plastic over the end's. I plan on dropping an air stone down the watering pipe in the future, but so far growth has been rather explosive. Threw off my training cycle a bit lol. Anyone have thoughts on this style compared to the soil wick method?







Also, I had one other question for those of you using rice hulls. What ratio of rice hulls too your other aeration components do you recommend? I recently found out it's cheaper for me to order rice hulls online than it is to buy verm/perlite locally


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## Tim Fox (Mar 23, 2017)

bicit said:


> Hmm just a question, haven't read the thread all the way through. I've noticed that most of you seem to use fabric pots with some sort of soil wick dripping down into the reservoir. I was wondering why you choose that design?
> 
> I've been setting up beds similar to this(picture shamelessly stolen off the interwebs). Using a 27 gallon tough tote and 3" perforated drain pipe Coiled around the bottom and plastic over the end's. I plan on dropping an air stone down the watering pipe in the future, but so far growth has been rather explosive. Threw off my training cycle a bit lol. Anyone have thoughts on this style compared to the soil wick method?
> 
> ...


picture states " Potting mix squeezed between drain pipes serves as the wick"
plus the 1 inch air gap in the pipes,, it works the same as all the other sips, 
fantastic useful design and robust long lasting too
I have seen whole outside garden beds built using this method your showing,, like 10 foot and 12 foot long beds, just cutting the drain pipe to the length of the bed
I think @Humanrob may have used the drain pipe for a wick in one of his set ups,, not sure, he has many types,, lol


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## Humanrob (Mar 23, 2017)

@bicit - I can only speak for myself. I've used both plastic bins as the top pot and fabric pots. In general I strongly prefer to grow in fabric pots, the root patterns seem so much more efficient and healthier to me. That said, with SIPs either one works, and possibly plastic pots may use less water since there is less surface area evaporation. 

As far as the design you have, I have seen that before and read great stuff about those. I'm sure they work just as well as the full res under a pot design. With a separate res there might be more control in terms of designing the res size, some people like to use large res's so they can go away for 5-7 days and not have to worry about refilling it. I'm not sure if either design has a practical advantages over the other -- like in terms of breaking them down, cleaning, and reusing the components. I also wonder why they specify that it is for outdoor use. It might just be that their overflow just overflows...


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## frankslan (Mar 23, 2017)

bicit said:


> Anyone have thoughts on this style compared to the soil wick method?


Im doing the same thing it still has soil between the pipes to wick the water up up right? If it was just soil I think it would wick too much water up.

Aeration Im interested in this too. I was going to do rice hulls too they are so much lighter than pumice or something. But then I was reading the rice hulls break down quickly some people were saying like in a one cycle. 

I'm wondering how much aeration is even need in a sub irrigated pot Im doing the standard 30 percent but maybe we can get away with less?


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## bicit (Mar 23, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> @bicit - I can only speak for myself. I've used both plastic bins as the top pot and fabric pots. In general I strongly prefer to grow in fabric pots, the root patterns seem so much more efficient and healthier to me. That said, with SIPs either one works, and possibly plastic pots may use less water since there is less surface area evaporation.
> 
> As far as the design you have, I have seen that before and read great stuff about those. I'm sure they work just as well as the full res under a pot design. With a separate res there might be more control in terms of designing the res size, some people like to use large res's so they can go away for 5-7 days and not have to worry about refilling it. I'm not sure if either design has a practical advantages over the other -- like in terms of breaking them down, cleaning, and reusing the components. I also wonder why they specify that it is for outdoor use. It might just be that their overflow just overflows...


I see, was curious. I'm not sure why they specify for out door use either. I've been quite happy with the one I have so far indoors. 

Well with regards to the res size, I've had a few thoughts I want to experiment with. I've been thinking about connecting the overflow tube to a main reservoir. My thinking is that I can control the water level in multiple containers by using a master bucket and a simple float valve hooked up directly to an RO filter. Hmm just thinking someone could also set it up like a RDWC, circulating water from the main res, through the watering tubes. No idea if that would work out or not though.... yet.


----------



## frankslan (Mar 23, 2017)

bicit said:


> I see, was curious. I'm not sure why they specify for out door use either. I've been quite happy with the one I have so far indoors.
> 
> Well with regards to the res size, I've had a few thoughts I want to experiment with. I've been thinking about connecting the overflow tube to a main reservoir. My thinking is that I can control the water level in multiple containers by using a master bucket and a simple float valve hooked up directly to an RO filter. Hmm just thinking someone could also set it up like a RDWC, circulating water from the main res, through the watering tubes. No idea if that would work out or not though.... yet.



Ya that would be cool at least the float valve.

Speaking of ro water if we use RO water do we need to add cal mag?

where did you get 3 inch drain tube I could only find 4 inch


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## bicit (Mar 23, 2017)

frankslan said:


> Ya that would be cool at least the float valve.
> 
> Speaking of ro water if we use RO water do we need to add cal mag?
> 
> where did you get 3 inch drain tube I could only find 4 inch


So far I see no reason too. Not with the BAS mix anyhow. Welcome to be corrected if I'm wrong, cal-mag is easy to make.


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## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2017)

bicit said:


> Hmm just a question, haven't read the thread all the way through. I've noticed that most of you seem to use fabric pots with some sort of soil wick dripping down into the reservoir. I was wondering why you choose that design?
> 
> I've been setting up beds similar to this(picture shamelessly stolen off the interwebs). Using a 27 gallon tough tote and 3" perforated drain pipe Coiled around the bottom and plastic over the end's. I plan on dropping an air stone down the watering pipe in the future, but so far growth has been rather explosive. Threw off my training cycle a bit lol. Anyone have thoughts on this style compared to the soil wick method?
> 
> ...


Hey buddy, nice to see you around!


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## bicit (Mar 23, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Hey buddy, nice to see you around!


It's been a minute hasn't it? How're things hanging for ya?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 23, 2017)

bicit said:


> It's been a minute hasn't it? How're things hanging for ya?


Yes it has!
I'd been an interesting ride.
You should drop me a line sometime and we'll catch up.


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## ShaFuL (Mar 26, 2017)

Hey guys time to break my lurking status,
I am planning to do a single big no till setup 7 by 7 feet. My main concern is longevity, with roots getting into the reservoir bad anaerobic bacteria might form. Does anyone have got any experience growing a no-till setup this way?
Help greatly appreciated


----------



## PDX Joe (Mar 27, 2017)

ShaFuL said:


> Hey guys time to break my lurking status,
> I am planning to do a single big no till setup 7 by 7 feet. My main concern is longevity, with roots getting into the reservoir bad anaerobic bacteria might form. Does anyone have got any experience growing a no-till setup this way?
> Help greatly appreciated


Wow, big bed. You might want to try some 3 or 4 inch perforated irrigation pipe for the reservoir with the geotech fabric sock around it to keep dirt and roots out. It's the system similar to what bicit posted on the previous page. You can coil it up or place it in rows. This system works well for supporting a lot of soil. I've used this system on my larger containers. If you cover over the perf. pipe and fill in the gaps with washed agricultural sand it works really well as a wick. Cover the pipes with about an inch of sand. Also, the sand doesn't degrade sitting in the water like soil can over time.


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## PDX Joe (Mar 27, 2017)

I just transplanted into the SIPs modified 6.6 gallon Autopots. Time to see how this works... and all organic.


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## ShaFuL (Mar 27, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Wow, big bed. You might want to try some 3 or 4 inch perforated irrigation pipe for the reservoir with the geotech fabric sock around it to keep dirt and roots out. It's the system similar to what bicit posted on the previous page. You can coil it up or place it in rows. This system works well for supporting a lot of soil. I've used this system on my larger containers. If you cover over the perf. pipe and fill in the gaps with washed agricultural sand it works really well as a wick. Cover the pipes with about an inch of sand. Also, the sand doesn't degrade sitting in the water like soil can over time.


Thanks for the tip, I will try it this way, I will start building early April, I'll make sure to post some pics here


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## frankslan (Mar 27, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Wow, big bed. You might want to try some 3 or 4 inch perforated irrigation pipe for the reservoir with the geotech fabric sock around it to keep dirt and roots out. It's the system similar to what bicit posted on the previous page. You can coil it up or place it in rows. This system works well for supporting a lot of soil. I've used this system on my larger containers. If you cover over the perf. pipe and fill in the gaps with washed agricultural sand it works really well as a wick. Cover the pipes with about an inch of sand. Also, the sand doesn't degrade sitting in the water like soil can over time.


 

Planning on filling this with sand to cover the pipes then putting weed fabric over it. The sand wicks well?

I did a little test in a some yogurt containers the sand one weren't that wet compared to the peat or soil mixes.


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## Jp.the.pope (Mar 27, 2017)

frankslan said:


> View attachment 3914164
> 
> Planning on filling this with sand to cover the pipes then putting weed fabric over it. The sand wicks well?
> 
> I did a little test in a some yogurt containers the sand one weren't that wet compared to the peat or soil mixes.


Are you planning on an airstone?


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## frankslan (Mar 27, 2017)

no I wasn't


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## Jp.the.pope (Mar 27, 2017)

Then you should love that design. I use it outdoors, wanted to put inside with integrated airstone. Couldn't figure it out and went with another design suggested by @PDX Joe


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## frankslan (Mar 27, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Then you should love that design. I use it outdoors, wanted to put inside with integrated airstone. Couldn't figure it out and went with another design suggested by @PDX Joe


you could put in a air stone in there pretty easy just pop one in one of the pipes or do three one in each pipe. I was thinking what if you did a system all dirt and then ran air tubing with pin holes in it snaked all along the bottom to provide air to the dirt. 

I was just worried the sand wouldn't wick fast enough.


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## Jp.the.pope (Mar 27, 2017)

I was concerned about the oxygenated water spreading to all the rubes without multiple airstones. Tubing idea should work fine


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## PDX Joe (Mar 27, 2017)

frankslan said:


> View attachment 3914164
> 
> Planning on filling this with sand to cover the pipes then putting weed fabric over it. The sand wicks well?
> 
> I did a little test in a some yogurt containers the sand one weren't that wet compared to the peat or soil mixes.


Yes, sand wicks well. The smaller the particles the better capillary action. But, wet sand will slide right through those perf pipe slits, so you need to wrap your pipes with a drain sleeve. Of course soil absorbs and holds water better than sand. So basically soil absorbs and wicks and sand only wicks. So you're right that soil sitting in water will be more damp, but sand will do a better job of pulling water up into the soil. But, if you find the soil gets too dry then you might want to use a plastic sheet on the top of the container (a mulch layer). Consistent moisture from the top to bottom of the container will help the microbiology grow. If the top of the soil dries out too much, then you won't have microbiology at the top of the pot to break down organic fertilizer. That's if you are top dressing with organic nutes. If you are feeding from the reservoir then this is less of an issue.

Also make sure the sand is washed an clean. You don't want any silt in the sand or the water won't wick properly. Usually the agricultural sand from a nursery is already washed. It's a little bit more expensive than sand box sand from the big box store, but the sand box sand has a ton of dust, silt and extra crap. You know, all the crap you don't mind your kid playing in, but isn't good enough for your plants.


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## frankslan (Mar 27, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Yes, sand wicks well. The smaller the particles the better capillary action. But, wet sand will slide right through those perf pipe slits, so you need to wrap your pipes with a drain sleeve. Of course soil absorbs and holds water better than sand. So basically soil absorbs and wicks and sand only wicks. So you're right that soil sitting in water will be more damp, but sand will do a better job of pulling water up into the soil. But, if you find the soil gets too dry then you might want to use a plastic sheet on the top of the container (a mulch layer). Consistent moisture from the top to bottom of the container will help the microbiology grow. If the top of the soil dries out too much, then you won't have microbiology at the top of the pot to break down organic fertilizer. That's if you are top dressing with organic nutes. If you are feeding from the reservoir then this is less of an issue.
> 
> Also make sure the sand is washed an clean. You don't want any silt in the sand or the water won't wick properly. Usually the agricultural sand from a nursery is already washed. It's a little bit more expensive than sand box sand from the big box store, but the sand box sand has a ton of dust, silt and extra crap. You know, all the crap you don't mind your kid playing in, but isn't good enough for your plants.


Okay thanks i was thinking that it might clog those slits ill probably wrap it in the weed fabric. Running out of money for this build.

How does that look for spacing between the pipe. Too much too little?


Thanks for the tip on washing it too i was not gonna do that. Maybe i can find some of that nicer sand.

Im trying to do a no till so there will be some top dressing might try living mulch layer


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## PDX Joe (Mar 27, 2017)

frankslan said:


> Okay thanks i was thinking that it might clog those slits ill probably wrap it in the weed fabric. Running out of money for this build.
> 
> How does that look for spacing between the pipe. Too much too little?
> 
> ...


Yes, I think that gap looks pretty good. When you fill the bottom with sand make sure you water the sand with a watering can or hose as you fill in the sand. This will force the sand to flow down into the small gaps that you can't pack in with your fingers. That way you won't have air gaps or settling after you put the soil on top. 

You can use weed cloth to wrap the pipe, but I think they sell a 10 ft. length of drain sock for $5 at HD.

Definitely try a mulch layer whether you use plastic sheeting, hay or a cover crop.


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## frankslan (Mar 27, 2017)

frankslan said:


> Okay thanks i was thinking that it might clog those slits ill probably wrap it in the weed fabric. Running out of money for this build.
> 
> How does that look for spacing between the pipe. Too much too little?
> 
> ...





PDX Joe said:


> Yes, I think that gap looks pretty good. When you fill the bottom with sand make sure you water the sand with a watering can or hose as you fill in the sand. This will force the sand to flow down into the small gaps that you can't pack in with your fingers. That way you won't have air gaps or settling after you put the soil on top.
> 
> You can use weed cloth to wrap the pipe, but I think they sell a 10 ft. length of drain sock for $5 at HD.
> 
> Definitely try a mulch layer whether you use plastic sheeting, hay or a cover crop.


Okay cool 5 bucks i can handle i guess.

Is anyone using ropes for a wick that seems like it would be cool then the roots would stop when they it the air gap


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## PDX Joe (Mar 27, 2017)

frankslan said:


> Okay cool 5 bucks i can handle i guess.
> 
> Is anyone using ropes for a wick that seems like it would be cool then the roots would stop when they it the air gap


I would worry about a rope system because you would need to find the type of rope that would wick, but not deteriorate. And, the air gap won't stop the roots. They will find a way down there eventually. I believe the air gap is important for allowing oxygen to enter the system from below... this should help prevent root rot. I have used a weed barrier on top of the sand which does slow down the roots. But, a few growers may have a point that letting roots grown down into the reservoir isn't necessarily a bad thing. My new indoor system has an air gap, but I eliminated the weed barrier and I'm going to see how they do with allowing the roots go down into the reservoir area.

You can achieve an air gap with the sand design, you just need to place the reservoir overflow drain holes an inch or two lower than where the bottom of your soil is located. This will allow air to enter through the drain holes and permeate the sand zone between your reservoir water high point and soil bottom.


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## hyroot (Mar 27, 2017)

Hey kids. You miss me. A few things I have figured out with diy sips over the last couple years. . 


1. Line your wicking pot with weed mat
2. Mix pumice and coco 50/50 in your wicking pot. 
3. Layer the bottom of your main pot with 1/2 inch layer of pumice. 

All this to prevent over saturation ^^^^

4. For the first month. Do not fill the resi!! Allow the roots to fill out the pot completely first. Then add water to the resi. This will make your roots grow insane. My roots fill out 75% of the resi.


Now I have ran with air stones and without. I prefer without stones now. Everytime I fill the resi I add a splash of labs. Make sure not to add more than a 1/4 cup of labs per 10 gallons of water.. Too much labs can go bad and stink. A little goes a long way. And keeps the watwr from going bad and prevents mold or harmful pathogens from hitting the roots.

Once every 10 days I top water with a mix of labs, ffj, yucca, and mammoth p. Then plain water the rest. The occasional sst. Never towards the end of flower. Cytokinins in sst's promote cell division causing longer flowering time and fox tailing. 

Every 2 weeks i top dress a layer of gro kashi. Then once the layer of pseudomycelieum layer develops i top dress compost. Balance out the bacteria and fungi. I also have red wiggler worms in all my pots. 


My favorite design is the fabric pot / octo pot design. I have not yet tried earth boxes. I have not wanted to spend the money as I've fully dialed in my diy sips. 

I


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## Evil-Mobo (Mar 27, 2017)

hyroot said:


> Hey kids. You miss me. A few things I have figured out with diy sips over the last couple years. .
> 
> 
> 1. Line your wicking pot with weed mat
> ...


Good to see you around again brother!


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## frankslan (Mar 27, 2017)

Cool thanks for the tips.

I found a few fig planters using Thermolam fabric they said that you kind have to experiment with it and find out how much wick you need though.

Edit:Some good wick materials are synthetic shoe laces, man-made chamois (100% rayon), the nylon ties from citrus fruit bags, braided polypropylene rope, nylon rope...


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## frankslan (Mar 29, 2017)

Coming together now just have to mix all my dirt now


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## PDX Joe (Mar 30, 2017)

Plants are settling in nicely. I dropped the SCROG net on. I lowered it to 7" over the pots this time. I want that screen really low. The mycelium mat formed in one day using the bokashi.


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## frankslan (Mar 30, 2017)

I filled the containers up with soil one inch from the top. took about 33 gallons of soil.

Should I just go all the way to the top?


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## PDX Joe (Mar 30, 2017)

frankslan said:


> I filled the containers up with soil one inch from the top. took about 33 gallons of soil.
> 
> Should I just go all the way to the top?


Not if you're going to do a compost and mulch layer. You'll need an inch or so for some compost/ worm castings to develop a humus layer.


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## frankslan (Mar 30, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Not if you're going to do a compost and mulch layer. You'll need an inch or so for some compost/ worm castings to develop a humus layer.


oh okay I thought maybe it would compact down a bit maybe I should remove some.


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## PDX Joe (Mar 31, 2017)

frankslan said:


> oh okay I thought maybe it would compact down a bit maybe I should remove some.


Yeah, you're right. The soil will settle a bit. You can tamp it gently once the plants are in. Then put a bit more soil in to make sure the crown of the rootball is level or slightly under the soil.


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## frankslan (Mar 31, 2017)

I made a compost tea I was wondering can I add some of the nutrient mix kelp crab and neam to it or is that a bad idea?


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2017)

frankslan said:


> I made a compost tea I was wondering can I add some of the nutrient mix kelp crab and neam to it or is that a bad idea?


No nutes, no neem.

The other stuff should be okay.


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## frankslan (Apr 1, 2017)

hey anyone try like grokashi style korean farming style and form a mycelium layer over the soil? Im thinking of adding barley watered with em-1 over my soil cover it grow a santa's beard then top it off with my Vermi Compost and mulch.

My soil is already hot sitting at 83 now in the middle so Idk if this would be too much I dont want to make it any hotter.


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 1, 2017)

frankslan said:


> hey anyone try like grokashi style korean farming style and form a mycelium layer over the soil? Im thinking of adding barley watered with em-1 over my soil cover it grow a santa's beard then top it off with my Vermi Compost and mulch.
> 
> My soil is already hot sitting at 83 now in the middle so Idk if this would be too much I dont want to make it any hotter.


The barley teas get old I now just sprinkle it as a top dress under the mulch and you get the same effect.


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 1, 2017)

frankslan said:


> hey anyone try like grokashi style korean farming style and form a mycelium layer over the soil? Im thinking of adding barley watered with em-1 over my soil cover it grow a santa's beard then top it off with my Vermi Compost and mulch.
> 
> My soil is already hot sitting at 83 now in the middle so Idk if this would be too much I dont want to make it any hotter.


Yes, I'm trying bokashi this grow on top of my compost just under my plastic cover. The mycelium mat formed in a day, so that's a good sign.


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## frankslan (Apr 1, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Yes, I'm trying bokashi this grow on top of my compost just under my plastic cover. The mycelium mat formed in a day, so that's a good sign.


cool I put barley in my soil I can already see the mycelium forming in 24 hours too.


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## frankslan (Apr 1, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> The barley teas get old I now just sprinkle it as a top dress under the mulch and you get the same effect.


ya I want to do a topdress of it but water it in with em-1


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 1, 2017)

frankslan said:


> ya I want to do a topdress of it but water it in with em-1


Gotcha. Will work just fine.


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## frankslan (Apr 1, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Gotcha. Will work just fine.


So you dont even wait till a mat forms you just cover it right up with compost maybe Ill do that


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 1, 2017)

frankslan said:


> So you dont even wait till a mat forms you just cover it right up with compost maybe Ill do that


I don't introduce the barley until the first time I chop the cover crop and mulch over it. Then from that time on when I do use it I just too dress it under the mulch and water with whatever the feed for the day was.


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## PDX Joe (Apr 6, 2017)

The SIPs modified Autopots are working pretty well. The organic grow is healthy and green. Now I'm just trying to get the net filled as much as possible.


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## frankslan (Apr 6, 2017)

got them in the ground thanks for the help they seem to like if after two days,


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## PDX Joe (Apr 10, 2017)

I'm getting a good rate of growth now. This is four days of growth since the last post. I'm hoping I can flip in a couple more weeks. These are pretty bushy indica, so I'm not sure how much stretch I'll get. This is three weeks of veg. I'd like to keep the veg. phase down to around 5-6 weeks... just not sure if that will allow a full screen.


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 13, 2017)

Quick question guys.......

For any of you using 5 gallon buckets for SIP's, is it necessary to drill a couple of holes in the sides of the bottom bucket/res, or just leaving the gap between the water line and upper bucket is enough?

Don't remember how I did this last time. I am going to use one of my DWC buckets for the bottom because they have the sight tube already so not worried about too much water going in............

Thanks


----------



## Humanrob (Apr 13, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Quick question guys.......
> 
> For any of you using 5 gallon buckets for SIP's, is it necessary to drill a couple of holes in the sides of the bottom bucket/res, or just leaving the gap between the water line and upper bucket is enough?
> 
> ...


When I used them, I did drill a bunch of 1/4" holes above the the 1/2" overflow drain hole... but I really don't know if they were necessary. The overflow hole might be enough, as the water lowers the vacuum will pull in fresh air. 

I ended out using what was marked as a "#7" plastic planting pot in my 5 gallon (homer bucket) res, and that ratio was disappointing for me -- the res only held about a gallon of water and matched with approximately 5 gallons of soil I had to fill it every day. Granted, they were outside and the plants got to be about 5' tall past the soil line, but personally I'd still like a bigger res with that much soil. If I could find a shallow 3 gallon pot that would fit in a 5 gallon bucket (without "falling in"), that might leave enough room for 2 gallons of water which I think would be a better balance. 

We're just making it up as we go, whatever works for you is what matters.


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 13, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> When I used them, I did drill a bunch of 1/4" holes above the the 1/2" overflow drain hole... but I really don't know if they were necessary. The overflow hole might be enough, as the water lowers the vacuum will pull in fresh air.
> 
> I ended out using what was marked as a "#7" plastic planting pot in my 5 gallon (homer bucket) res, and that ratio was disappointing for me -- the res only held about a gallon of water and matched with approximately 5 gallons of soil I had to fill it every day. Granted, they were outside and the plants got to be about 5' tall past the soil line, but personally I'd still like a bigger res with that much soil. If I could find a shallow 3 gallon pot that would fit in a 5 gallon bucket (without "falling in"), that might leave enough room for 2 gallons of water which I think would be a better balance.
> 
> We're just making it up as we go, whatever works for you is what matters.


Thanks for the input brother much appreciated.................


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## PDX Joe (Apr 13, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Quick question guys.......
> 
> For any of you using 5 gallon buckets for SIP's, is it necessary to drill a couple of holes in the sides of the bottom bucket/res, or just leaving the gap between the water line and upper bucket is enough?
> 
> ...


Yeah, a couple holes should be fine to let air in.


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Apr 13, 2017)

Back where I was when I first started lol still more to do just the first but here goes nothing I understand in these I will water more frequently but for my current situation I feel this is what will work best. Can always upgrade or modify as needed but I'll be sipping again now


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 13, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> When I used them, I did drill a bunch of 1/4" holes above the the 1/2" overflow drain hole... but I really don't know if they were necessary. The overflow hole might be enough, as the water lowers the vacuum will pull in fresh air.
> 
> I ended out using what was marked as a "#7" plastic planting pot in my 5 gallon (homer bucket) res, and that ratio was disappointing for me -- the res only held about a gallon of water and matched with approximately 5 gallons of soil I had to fill it every day. Granted, they were outside and the plants got to be about 5' tall past the soil line, but personally I'd still like a bigger res with that much soil. If I could find a shallow 3 gallon pot that would fit in a 5 gallon bucket (without "falling in"), that might leave enough room for 2 gallons of water which I think would be a better balance.
> 
> We're just making it up as we go, whatever works for you is what matters.


How about a remote reservoir connected to the homer buckets with a float valve? The system I have is basically this way. The reservoir in the SIPs pots is only about 1/2 gallon. But my remote reservoir can hold up to 12 gallons. Although I only put about 5 gallons at a time into it. I've heard of people doing hempy buckets this way too.


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Apr 13, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> How about a remote reservoir connected to the homer buckets with a float valve? The system I have is basically this way. The reservoir in the SIPs pots is only about 1/2 gallon. But my remote reservoir can hold up to 12 gallons. Although I only put about 5 gallons at a time into it. I've heard of people doing hempy buckets this way too.


Funny you mention this as I was toying with the idea but would need a float valve that would work for the application ..........


----------



## Humanrob (Apr 13, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> How about a remote reservoir connected to the homer buckets with a float valve? The system I have is basically this way. The reservoir in the SIPs pots is only about 1/2 gallon. But my remote reservoir can hold up to 12 gallons. Although I only put about 5 gallons at a time into it. I've heard of people doing hempy buckets this way too.


That is a great idea! I've thought about it before, but I've always been moving my grow around (from one room to another, etc) and experimenting, so I personally haven't built out anything like that -- yet. If the summer goes as planned I'll have a more permanent space, and then I'll think about building a more integrated system like that. But definitely, those are awesome self-regulated systems. As a side note, I won't use the 5 gallon buckets, they are unnecessarily tall, I'll go with something like a 10 gallon Rubbermaid totes.


----------



## greg nr (Apr 13, 2017)

Ok, I got two of those garden boxes foxy posted above. I'm going to mix up some soil with build-a-soil's complete kit (30 pounds of nutrients and minerals) and use that.

My goal is to just put water into the res (and maybe some cal mag). I am not going organic. I'm going low maintenance. I have mothing against bottled nutes except for the complexity of custom blending every feed or water cycle. Plus not having to water as frequently will be a plus.

Sure, I'll have to top feed occasionally, but I'm hoping for much lower maintenance and a less hectic grow. I only have a 3x3 tent, so 2 plants in each would be a good number. Won't know till they sex out though.


----------



## Evil-Mobo (Apr 13, 2017)

Veg area now SIP's and not hydro

 

The rest of my plants will ride it out as is and the SIP's will rotate into the flower tents when the current autos are done. Next cycle of this perpetual starting up right now will have everything in place how I want. Will free up the veg area much better now with 1gal pots to prepare the ladies for the SIP's once the veg girls leave. Then I can get a cloning station setup in the veg closet too and all cylinders will be firing once again.


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 13, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Funny you mention this as I was toying with the idea but would need a float valve that would work for the application ..........


You can get a little horizontal float valve and place it in a small tray or tub and place it on the floor next to your plant pots. Then you can set the water height to what you want and the large main supply reservoir would need to be elevated off the ground a bit and it would just gravity feed once the float valve opens. You could water multiple SIPs with this one float valve box. 

A float valve like this...

https://www.amazon.com/Kerick-Valve-MA052-Float-Adjustable/dp/B0077RAP1I/ref=zg_bs_4650344011_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=N9D5E5SQTSCB529QRH0R


----------



## frankslan (Apr 13, 2017)

If anyone is wondering what level their water is at in the res take a piece of tubing and blow in it till it getting all foggy then stick it down the fill tube.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 14, 2017)

frankslan said:


> If anyone is wondering what level their water is at in the res take a piece of tubing and blow in it till it getting all foggy then stick it down the fill tube.


Or just use a dry stick.


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 14, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Or just use a dry stick.


One year I stuck a wine cork on a straightened coat hanger wire and put a little duct tape flag on the end to measure water height. Damn coyote pulled it out and took off with it!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 14, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> One year I stuck a wine cork on a straightened coat hanger wire and put a little duct tape flag on the end to measure water height. Damn coyote pulled it out and took off with it!


He was looking for the wine!


----------



## Tim Fox (Apr 14, 2017)

frankslan said:


> If anyone is wondering what level their water is at in the res take a piece of tubing and blow in it till it getting all foggy then stick it down the fill tube.


you just want to see me blowing on a tube!!!


----------



## Tim Fox (Apr 14, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> He was looking for the wine!


whos wine, what wine,, where the hell did I dine?
(song lyrics can you guess)


----------



## Tim Fox (Apr 14, 2017)

hyroot said:


> Hey kids. You miss me. A few things I have figured out with diy sips over the last couple years. .
> 
> 
> 1. Line your wicking pot with weed mat
> ...


it sure is good to see you around @hyroot and yes many missed you, and @SomeGuy although he has poppped in and out a little your inputs are missed


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## PDX Joe (Apr 14, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> whos wine, what wine,, where the hell did I dine?
> (song lyrics can you guess)


"Must have been a dream I don't believe where I've been"


----------



## Humanrob (Apr 14, 2017)

Ah, Mr. Frampton. He's playing this summer down the street from me with Steve Miller Band. I don't own any of their music (haven't since it was on vinyl), but I bet I could sing along to most of their songs. It's kind of amazing how much they are charging for tickets to see a bunch of grandpa's playing songs they wrote 30 years ago...


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 14, 2017)

Use to play his greatest hits album A LOT when riding my Harley cross country............man I miss riding...............


----------



## frankslan (Apr 14, 2017)

@PDX Joe Hey can you let me see your journal it wont let me for some reason


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## PDX Joe (Apr 14, 2017)

frankslan said:


> @PDX Joe Hey can you let me see your journal it wont let me for some reason


Oops, yes I just fixed the settings.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 16, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Back where I was when I first started lol still more to do just the first but here goes nothing I understand in these I will water more frequently but for my current situation I feel this is what will work best. Can always upgrade or modify as needed but I'll be sipping again now
> 
> View attachment 3924108


so it was decided YES we need a side hole at least one to allow air to transfer in and out of the res area?


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## Tim Fox (Apr 16, 2017)

All this talk about Res size , I thought i would get out the res for the new grow box and see if it measures up,, the Earthbox i grew in last time was wonderful, and i would recomend it for sure , but the 2.5 gallon res allowed me to go away for a short weekend over nighter, i was looking for a bigger res, but trying to keep it contained, to keep the "Easy Factor" going strong, 
also the grow box has a lip that allows filling the res directly and a visual sight into the res as well, and now 
So i measured 2 gallons into my green filling can, and its right to the rim, and the Res held right at 2 full cans, so 4 gallons i am very please with the res increase, and its still short at only 11 inches, 
i tossed some leafs in the pic for visual


----------



## Tim Fox (Apr 16, 2017)

greg nr said:


> Ok, I got two of those garden boxes foxy posted above. I'm going to mix up some soil with build-a-soil's complete kit (30 pounds of nutrients and minerals) and use that.
> 
> My goal is to just put water into the res (and maybe some cal mag). I am not going organic. I'm going low maintenance. I have mothing against bottled nutes except for the complexity of custom blending every feed or water cycle. Plus not having to water as frequently will be a plus.
> 
> Sure, I'll have to top feed occasionally, but I'm hoping for much lower maintenance and a less hectic grow. I only have a 3x3 tent, so 2 plants in each would be a good number. Won't know till they sex out though.


2 plants fits well in the grow box and the earthbox, and YES to build a soil and water only,, my last 2 grows were water only just cal mag,, talk about easy,, easy makes growing fun, more time to sit with the plants and crank some johnny cash, and pretend i am in hawaii with the bright light,, hahaha


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 16, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> so it was decided YES we need a side hole at least one to allow air to transfer in and out of the res area?


That seems to be the consensus it was too easy not to do so it got done


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 17, 2017)

SIPs grow update. The plants are filling up the screen faster than I expected now. I have to decide when to flip these. I almost think they're ready.


----------



## Tim Fox (Apr 17, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> SIPs grow update. The plants are filling up the screen faster than I expected now. I have to decide when to flip these. I almost think they're ready.View attachment 3926556


I always suggest if you are wondering if it's Time to flip then it's time


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 18, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> SIPs grow update. The plants are filling up the screen faster than I expected now. I have to decide when to flip these. I almost think they're ready.View attachment 3926556





Tim Fox said:


> I always suggest if you are wondering if it's Time to flip then it's time


Your previous experience with the strain should tell you how much it will stretch.

Plan accordingly.


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Your previous experience with the strain should tell you how much it will stretch.
> 
> Plan accordingly.


I have no previous experience with this strain. These were bonus seeds I decided to try. I'm going to flip them today to give me a little bit of screen space for stretch.


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 25, 2017)

Healthy plants, happy plants. They're entering week 2 of flower now in the SIPs. The stretch has been manageable so far. The screen is full, so any more stretch will go vertical. These plants are pretty bushy, so I will need to do some significant thinning of the lower fan leaves to open things up a bit. I need to get the humidity down, with all the leaves the plants are transpiring a lot of water.


----------



## Humanrob (Apr 25, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Healthy plants, happy plants. They're entering week 2 of flower now in the SIPs. The stretch has been manageable so far. The screen is full, so any more stretch will go vertical. These plants are pretty bushy, so I will need to do some significant thinning of the lower fan leaves to open things up a bit. I need to get the humidity down, with all the leaves the plants are transpiring a lot of water. View attachment 3931171


Looks great! I've been in the same boat (extra thick canopy + humidity), a couple of times its led to PM. Make sure you have tons of air movement and thinning is really important if your humidity is high, but it sounds like you are on top of that.


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 25, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Looks great! I've been in the same boat (extra thick canopy + humidity), a couple of times its led to PM. Make sure you have tons of air movement and thinning is really important if your humidity is high, but it sounds like you are on top of that.


I have a fan on above and below the canopy. I know if I turn my exhaust fan on continuously I can get my humidity down to 55%. The only problem is running my exhaust continuously will drop my temps down to around 75 - 77F which is a bit cool. I'd like to keep my temps up in the low 80's if possible. So I'm in a bit of a pickle. I bet when and if I add a few more COBs to my light I will get a bit more heat and my exhaust fan would kick on more often and also take care of the extra humidity. But right now I'm stuck. At some point I may just run the exhaust full time and accept the lower temps.


----------



## Humanrob (Apr 25, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I have a fan on above and below the canopy. I know if I turn my exhaust fan on continuously I can get my humidity down to 55%. The only problem is running my exhaust continuously will drop my temps down to around 75 - 77F which is a bit cool. I'd like to keep my temps up in the low 80's if possible. So I'm in a bit of a pickle. I bet when I and if I add a few more COBs to my light I will get a bit more heat and my exhaust fan would kick on more often and also take care of the extra humidity. But right now I'm stuck. At some point I may just run the exhaust full time and accept the lower temps.


That's a tough one. Since they haven't started to flower yet, you could give them a good soaking with GreenCure. It seems counter intuitive to wet them down when humidity is an issue, but I've had great luck with that product as a PM preventative. Just a thought.


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 25, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> That's a tough one. Since they haven't started to flower yet, you could give them a good soaking with GreenCure. It seems counter intuitive to wet them down when humidity is an issue, but I've had great luck with that product as a PM preventative. Just a thought.


I use Actinovate as a soil inoculant and also a foliar to prevent PM. I've had good luck with it. It will hold PM at bay even on zucchini.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 26, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I have a fan on above and below the canopy. I know if I turn my exhaust fan on continuously I can get my humidity down to 55%. The only problem is running my exhaust continuously will drop my temps down to around 75 - 77F which is a bit cool. I'd like to keep my temps up in the low 80's if possible. So I'm in a bit of a pickle. I bet when and if I add a few more COBs to my light I will get a bit more heat and my exhaust fan would kick on more often and also take care of the extra humidity. But right now I'm stuck. At some point I may just run the exhaust full time and accept the lower temps.


i plugged in a few CFL's under my canopy on the last grow,, not for the light, but for the heat,, and it worked like a charm
Oh your plants looks crazy good, nice job on the canopy training, its going to be a fun ride to watch these flower out


----------



## Tim Fox (Apr 26, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> That's a tough one. Since they haven't started to flower yet, you could give them a good soaking with GreenCure. It seems counter intuitive to wet them down when humidity is an issue, but I've had great luck with that product as a PM preventative. Just a thought.


i never saw any sign of PM on my last grow using green cure,, did a few sprayings in veg, and a couple in early flower,, and then let it ride,, i like the stuff,, and its just sodium bicarb very simular to plain baking soda, 
i will use it every grow from now on


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 26, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> i plugged in a few CFL's under my canopy on the last grow,, not for the light, but for the heat,, and it worked like a charm
> Oh your plants looks crazy good, nice job on the canopy training, its going to be a fun ride to watch these flower out


That's a good idea. I may just try that.


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## PDX Joe (Apr 26, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> i plugged in a few CFL's under my canopy on the last grow,, not for the light, but for the heat,, and it worked like a charm
> Oh your plants looks crazy good, nice job on the canopy training, its going to be a fun ride to watch these flower out


Did you pick a specific kelvin for your CFL's or does it even matter?


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## Tim Fox (Apr 26, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Did you pick a specific kelvin for your CFL's or does it even matter?


Lol nope but the lower buds improved but i put them in there for heat so i could speed up the exhaust fan to help with humidityand it worked


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 26, 2017)

if you are looking for heat as opposed to light get a reptile light or something like that.. only about 8 bucks at most pet stores or big box


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## Tim Fox (Apr 26, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> if you are looking for heat as opposed to light get a reptile light or something like that.. only about 8 bucks at most pet stores or big box


Oh that's good, I really cheaper out , what's funnyis running these efficient led cobs and then having to putheat back in lol


----------



## frankslan (Apr 26, 2017)

Help guys i got fungus gnats. I did a straw alphalfa mulch with living mulch growing in. Plan is to ditch that the mulc layers. Next would covering the container up with plastic will that help or make the problems worse.

I have nematodes on the way too.


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## Jp.the.pope (Apr 26, 2017)

They got big...they as in it....i have other SIPs


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## frankslan (Apr 26, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> They got big...they as in it....i have other SIPs


Wow are those outside or something?


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## Jp.the.pope (Apr 27, 2017)

Nope. Just big 30 gal sips


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## Tim Fox (Apr 27, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> They got big...they as in it....i have other SIPs
> 
> View attachment 3931818
> 
> ...


OH HELL YES,, Sips grow huge plants,, just like hydro to me,, but without all the hydro work,,, awesome man


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## Tim Fox (Apr 27, 2017)

frankslan said:


> Help guys i got fungus gnats. I did a straw alphalfa mulch with living mulch growing in. Plan is to ditch that the mulc layers. Next would covering the container up with plastic will that help or make the problems worse.
> 
> I have nematodes on the way too.


@human rob has dealt with bugs like this I think,, maybe he can share if the plastic cover helped,, myself i ran the plastic the whole ride and didnt see any bugs


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## frankslan (Apr 27, 2017)

@Humanrob hey did the plastic cover help with the gnats.


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## Humanrob (Apr 27, 2017)

Yes, plastic definitely helped me. Try and get a decent seal (gently, obviously) around the trunk of the plant and the edges of the container. I've used plastic garbage bags, cut a slit down one side so I could drape it around the plant, and then duct taped it up. Not elegant, but it seems to disrupt their life cycle.



frankslan said:


> @Humanrob hey did the plastic cover help with the gnats.


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## ttystikk (Apr 27, 2017)

GoGnats is cedar oil, it's said to help with fungus gnats.


----------



## Olive Drab Green (Apr 27, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> GoGnats is cedar oil, it's said to help with fungus gnats.


Cedar's naturally insecticidal, if I'm not mistaken. I learned that while researching a substrate for my tarantula.


----------



## Yodaweed (Apr 27, 2017)

frankslan said:


> Help guys i got fungus gnats. I did a straw alphalfa mulch with living mulch growing in. Plan is to ditch that the mulc layers. Next would covering the container up with plastic will that help or make the problems worse.
> 
> I have nematodes on the way too.


Try some mosquito dunks too


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 27, 2017)

I use cedar for my screens and also diatomaceous earth! Its all natural and gets in the bugs exoskeletons and dehydrates them, great stuff! and yes wow SIPs grow some monster plants! or should i say bushes at this point lol i could probably give these things to the knights who say Ni and they would say its an acceptable shrubbery! (sorry my nerd was showing there for a min )


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 27, 2017)

Yodaweed said:


> Try some mosquito dunks too


hey nice name! (-;


----------



## nolem1234 (Apr 27, 2017)

Anybody seen this thing? The "GroBucket" 
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1942221820/you-dont-need-a-green-thumb-you-just-need-the-grob

Looks cool that with this you don't need two buckets. How they do the water level indicator is clever too.


----------



## Tim Fox (Apr 27, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I use cedar for my screens and also diatomaceous earth! Its all natural and gets in the bugs exoskeletons and dehydrates them, great stuff! and yes wow SIPs grow some monster plants! or should i say bushes at this point lol i could probably give these things to the knights who say Ni and they would say its an acceptable shrubbery! (sorry my nerd was showing there for a min )


Dude that was awesome , yes i played chess in high school and watch game of thrones


----------



## Tim Fox (Apr 27, 2017)

nolem1234 said:


> Anybody seen this thing? The "GroBucket"
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1942221820/you-dont-need-a-green-thumb-you-just-need-the-grob
> 
> Looks cool that with this you don't need two buckets. How they do the water level indicator is clever too.


Looks like a guy could just cut off the bottom part of a bucket and make that easy plus i think some of us could copy and use his level indicator


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## greg nr (Apr 27, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Dude that was awesome , yes i played chess in high school and watch game of thrones


Umm, that was a monty python reference i do believe.






Kids today. No respect for the classics.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 27, 2017)

greg nr said:


> Umm, that was a monty python reference i do believe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes it was!


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 27, 2017)

nolem1234 said:


> Anybody seen this thing? The "GroBucket"
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1942221820/you-dont-need-a-green-thumb-you-just-need-the-grob
> 
> Looks cool that with this you don't need two buckets. How they do the water level indicator is clever too.


I like the water level indicator idea... basically a float with a long steam and tri color on top.... but otherwise seems like a standard sip i have seen many make on here.


----------



## Tim Fox (Apr 27, 2017)

greg nr said:


> Umm, that was a monty python reference i do believe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes you are corrects ,i was showing my own neediness


----------



## Tim Fox (Apr 27, 2017)

[Qkindsa "meangreengrowinmachine, post: 13496651, member: 609408"]I like the water level indicator idea... basically a float with a long steam and tri color on top.... but otherwise seems like a standard sip i have seen many make on here.[/QUOTE]
I kinda laughed because in the video they're all about being enganeer


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 27, 2017)

frankslan said:


> Help guys i got fungus gnats. I did a straw alphalfa mulch with living mulch growing in. Plan is to ditch that the mulc layers. Next would covering the container up with plastic will that help or make the problems worse.
> 
> I have nematodes on the way too.


I use plastic on top of my pots and haven't had any gnats.


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 27, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> if you are looking for heat as opposed to light get a reptile light or something like that.. only about 8 bucks at most pet stores or big box


That's a great idea. I did add a bulb in the closet like Tim Fox suggested. It seemed to help. It allowed my fan to cycle on more often to get the moisture out but still retain some heat. But, I like the idea of using the reptile bulb.


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 27, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Oh that's good, I really cheaper out , what's funnyis running these efficient led cobs and then having to putheat back in lol


It's a bit ironic. I'm glad I now know I can add a few more COBs and also get a bit more heat too. I guess the bulb trick will have to suffice for this grow.


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 27, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> [Qkindsa "meangreengrowinmachine, post: 13496651, member: 609408"]I like the water level indicator idea... basically a float with a long steam and tri color on top.... but otherwise seems like a standard sip i have seen many make on here.


I kinda laughed because in the video they're all about being enganeer[/QUOTE]

But, they have fancy background music and slo-mo shots of plants growing! Honestly it would be nice if a company like Earthbox made more variations, shapes and sizes of pots and components... almost like a kit of parts you could mix and match depending on how you want to set up the grow. But, ultimately the DIY is pretty damn easy.


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 27, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> if you are looking for heat as opposed to light get a reptile light or something like that.. only about 8 bucks at most pet stores or big box


Would the reptile bulb be proving IR, UVA & UVB? If that's the case then it might raise my internal leaf temp. and allow me to run my room air temps. lower maybe around 76 - 79F. I know right now my leaf temps are whatever my air temp is and therefore I keep the room around 80 - 85F. Anyway, a little bit off the SIP topic.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 28, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Would the reptile bulb be proving IR, UVA & UVB? If that's the case then it might raise my internal leaf temp. and allow me to run my room air temps. lower maybe around 76 - 79F. I know right now my leaf temps are whatever my air temp is and therefore I keep the room around 80 - 85F. Anyway, a little bit off the SIP topic.


They do give off some UVA and UVB but I don't think that it is much..... hmm found this maybe it will help 

*1. REPRESENTATIVE LIGHT SOURCES AND THEIR PRINCIPAL TYPES OF RADIATION*
_Note: Wavelengths responsible for conversion of 7-dehydrocholesterol to cholecalciferol: 280-315nm_

*SOURCE*

*RADIATION*

Sun

UVB 290-320 nm, UVA 320-400 NM, Visible 400-700 NM, Infrared >700 NM

Incandescents (frosted, reflector floods, spots, halogen lamps

UVA 320-400 NM (low levels), Visible 400-700 NM, Infrared >700 NM

*Fluorescents:*

Chroma 50, Colortone 50, Design50, Cool White, Warm White

Visible 400-700 NM
UVB 280-320 NM (low levels), UVA 320-400 NM (low levels)

Plant lights

Emphasize red and blue spectrums within Visible 400-700 NM

Blacklights (BL)

UVB 290-320 NM (low levels similar to Vita-Lite), UVA 320-400 NM

Blacklight Blue (BLB)

Same as BL but with less blue light emitted; reported harmful to eyes

Sun lamps, Germicidal Lamps, Phototherapy lamps

High levels of UVB causes skin cancer, cataracts, etc.

*Other UV Sources:*
High Intensity Discharge Mercury, Metal Halide

Visible 400-700 NM, Infrared >700 NM; UVA and UVB are shielded due to extensive damage to skin and eyes caused by such high intensity

Mercury vapor comboheat/UV product

Extremely high output of UVA and UVB posing health hazards to humans and reptiles in typical home setting

here is the source site:
http://www.anapsid.org/uvtable.html


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 28, 2017)

I grow in a cold basement and what i ended up doing it routeing my caborn filter exhaust into another light proofed "entry room" before the actual grow room (intent is to make this into a possible veg room or more flowering space if needed) and then i pull intake from there as well... it keeps the intake air warm..(albeit I'm sure the co2 is lacking from this) I now need to vent the entry room in order to have more co2 but things seem to be going ok like this.


----------



## Tim Fox (Apr 28, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Whave uld the reptile bulb be proving IR, UVA & UVB? If that's the case then it might raise my internal leaf temp. and allow me to run my room air temps. lower maybe around 76 - 79F. I know right now my leaf temps are whatever my air temp is and therefore I keep the room around 80 - 85F. Anyway, a little bit off the SIP topic.


There is a thread on here about uv lighting and i have seen many guys fry Thier plants with these things , those who use then we'll set them to run about 15 min a day , but that's the bigger uv bulbs i suupise we could put them down low and not pointing at the leaves? Just guessing


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 28, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> There is a thread on here about uv lighting and i have seen many guys fry Thier plants with these things , those who use then we'll set them to run about 15 min a day , but that's the bigger uv bulbs i suupise we could put them down low and not pointing at the leaves? Just guessing


You can really hurt yourself with large UV bulbs as well... I think that might be a little further then I am willing to go lol... If i need that good of stuff ill go guerrilla and use the sun... really these large scale SIPs make that a lot more viable since you can control the water content and not have to revisit your spot too often.... i have been contemplating this recently lol


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 28, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> You can really hurt yourself with large UV bulbs as well... I think that might be a little further then I am willing to go lol... If i need that good of stuff ill go guerrilla and use the sun... really these large scale SIPs make that a lot more viable since you can control the water content and not have to revisit your spot too often.... i have been contemplating this recently lol


Build a cistern and connect to the SIP reservoir and then all they might need is occasional compost/ ferts. Unless it's in a place that doesn't get any rain.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 29, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> a place that doesn't get any rain.


starting to think that doesnt exist Joe, you me and @Humanrob all live here in the soggy northwest,, i mean,, lovely northwest


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## PDX Joe (Apr 29, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> starting to think that doesnt exist Joe, you me and @Humanrob all live here in the soggy northwest,, i mean,, lovely northwest


Ha! And a place that never stops raining... at least this year. I didn't realize Humanrob is from Oregon. It's cool to have fellow Oregonians on here. Are we all Portland? No need to answer if that's a bit too personal.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 29, 2017)

I will let @Humanrob answerfor himself i am out by Estacada
@PDX Joe


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## PDX Joe (Apr 29, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> I will let @Humanrob answerfor himself i am out by Estacada
> @PDX Joe


Ah, okay... not too far away.


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 29, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> You can really hurt yourself with large UV bulbs as well... I think that might be a little further then I am willing to go lol... If i need that good of stuff ill go guerrilla and use the sun... really these large scale SIPs make that a lot more viable since you can control the water content and not have to revisit your spot too often.... i have been contemplating this recently lol


This looks interesting as a way to heat the closet or tent without adding light... ceramic mogul base heater.

https://t.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/zilla-ceramic-heat-emitter-100-watts#


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## Humanrob (Apr 29, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Ha! And a place that never stops raining... at least this year. I didn't realize Humanrob is from Oregon. It's cool to have fellow Oregonians on here. Are we all Portland? No need to answer if that's a bit too personal.


Far northeast corner of Multnomah County, near that wind tunnel know as the Gorge. You find out about who's in our area in the Outdoor section, that's where we go to complain about the weather! LOL



PDX Joe said:


> This looks interesting as a way to heat the closet or tent without adding light... ceramic mogul base heater.
> 
> https://t.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/zilla-ceramic-heat-emitter-100-watts#


I live in an old house that does not have very consistent heat, and now I'm growing in the garage which is only moderately insulated and has no built in heat. I like the idea of using CFLs, might as well add light if you're going to add heat, but in the spring and fall I only need supplemental heat during certain parts of the day, and I'm not a big fan of lights coming on and off at different times, seems like it could stress the plants. 

I don't find the "thermostats" on small portable heaters to be accurate enough, so I got one of those digital plug in thermostat units, it's programmable for night and day and makes the whole thing super convenient.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 29, 2017)

You all complaining about rain and they are talking a bunch of snow and ice here come monday hahahaha siiigh at least its always summer in the grow room!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 29, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> You all complaining about rain and they are talking a bunch of snow and ice here come monday hahahaha siiigh at least its always summer in the grow room!


Right there with ya, brother; after two months without snow, it's been freezing cold with sleet and snow for the last 2 days. Even more aggravating? It's not even enough for good moisture.


----------



## Tim Fox (Apr 29, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> You all complaining about rain and they are talking a bunch of snow and ice here come monday hahahaha siiigh at least its always summer in the grow room!





ttystikk said:


> Right there with ya, brother; after two months without snow, it's been freezing cold with sleet and snow for the last 2 days. Even more aggravating? It's not even enough for good moisture.


We just set a 75 year record for the most days with rain this winter/spring,, UGH,,, i just point my head down and trudge onward


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 29, 2017)

It's been a pretty bad winter across the country this year. I'm over it. I think the vegetable garden will be a month late this year.


----------



## Humanrob (Apr 29, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> It's been a pretty bad winter across the country this year. I'm over it. I think the vegetable garden will be a month late this year.


We put a bunch of vegi starts out the other day, they got pelted with hail... oooops. So, we already started the vegi garden, for better or worse. My outdoor summer cannabis has sprouted in my 3x3 tent and will go outside the third week in May, otherwise they'd get root bound in the 1 gallon pots I have them in. They should be decently established by then, hopefully they can take whatever weather we're having at that point. 

Hey, speaking of SIPs, I might try a couple of autos in SIPs outside this summer, I have a bunch left over from last year. The rest of my SIPs are getting tomatoes. I found that outside, nothing beats the putting them right into the ground. Hey, I guess that is one good thing about where I live, there is decent soil here, tons of worms!!! (and we've amended the heck out of it).


----------



## PDX Joe (Apr 29, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Far northeast corner of Multnomah County, near that wind tunnel know as the Gorge. You find out about who's in our area in the Outdoor section, that's where we go to complain about the weather! LOL
> 
> 
> I live in an old house that does not have very consistent heat, and now I'm growing in the garage which is only moderately insulated and has no built in heat. I like the idea of using CFLs, might as well add light if you're going to add heat, but in the spring and fall I only need supplemental heat during certain parts of the day, and I'm not a big fan of lights coming on and off at different times, seems like it could stress the plants.
> ...


I'm very familiar with the Gorge. I'm out there about once a month in Mosier. Although, in Mosier there is a bit more sun.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 29, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> We just set a 75 year record for the most days with rain this winter/spring,, UGH,,, i just point my head down and trudge onward


----------



## PDX Joe (May 5, 2017)

I'm clearly seeing two different phenos from the same seeds. One has a bit more stretch and lighter green leaves. They're stacking now. At some point I will add a bit more nutrients to the top of the SIPs. They're in week 3. I'm thinking I might amend at the end of this week and they should be good until the end. The plants are starting to lift the SCROG net legs off the ground. I'll need to come up with a way to fasten the net down next time.


----------



## ttystikk (May 5, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I'm clearly seeing two different phenos from the same seeds. One has a bit more stretch and lighter green leaves. They're stacking now. At some point I will add a bit more nutrients to the top of the SIPs. They're in week 3. I'm thinking I might amend at the end of this week and they should be good until the end. The plants are starting to lift the SCROG net legs off the ground. I'll need to come up with a way to fasten the net down next time.View attachment 3936706


The point of the SCRoG screen is to support the buds. If they're standing up together while lifting the screen off the ground, that's great!


----------



## Tim Fox (May 5, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I'm clearly seeing two different phenos from the same seeds. One has a bit more stretch and lighter green leaves. They're stacking now. At some point I will add a bit more nutrients to the top of the SIPs. They're in week 3. I'm thinking I might amend at the end of this week and they should be good until the end. The plants are starting to lift the SCROG net legs off the ground. I'll need to come up with a way to fasten the net down next time.View attachment 3936706


After doing scrog legs a few times i switched to hanging the screen with light weight chain easy to set and adjust screen height


----------



## Tim Fox (May 5, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I'm clearly seeing two different phenos from the same seeds. One has a bit more stretch and lighter green leaves. They're stacking now. At some point I will add a bit more nutrients to the top of the SIPs. They're in week 3. I'm thinking I might amend at the end of this week and they should be good until the end. The plants are starting to lift the SCROG net legs off the ground. I'll need to come up with a way to fasten the net down next time.View attachment 3936706


Oh and killer looking plants


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## PDX Joe (May 5, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Oh and killer looking plants


Thanks. So far I'm really liking going organic. It's working very much like my outdoor SIPs. I wasn't sure if I could pull it off in 6.6 gallon pots.


----------



## STPM (May 7, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I use cedar for my screens and also diatomaceous earth! Its all natural and gets in the bugs exoskeletons and dehydrates them, great stuff! and yes wow SIPs grow some monster plants! or should i say bushes at this point lol i could probably give these things to the knights who say Ni and they would say its an acceptable shrubbery! (sorry my nerd was showing there for a min )


You can get food grade diatomaceous earth real cheap. I put 1/2 tbs in a gallon of spring water to drink it as it is the best source of silica, which promotes healthy bones. It makes your hair and nails grow quicker. One site recommended it as a silica supplement for plants that grow under LEC lights (since they are supposed to grow quick under said lights), as it helps in cell generation. Since SIPs promote growth as well you guys may benefit from adding some in your res water.

I say in your res water because the body at least does not absorb silicon dioxide itself but it reacts with water to produce orthosilicic acid slowly over time. The stomach acid helps to convert it, but overall silicon is poorly absorbed in the body. If the same is true in plants having it slowly being dissolved in the water would be most effective.

And yes per the OP, people sprinkle it across their doorways to keep pests out. It is supposed to be good for bedbugs. One can sprinkle it one one's plants to keep bugs off, but not on a flowering plant outside so as to be careful to not hurt the bees.


----------



## STPM (May 7, 2017)

I read through this entire thread which I learned a lot from. Has anyone tried that sopping wet soil routine with an air bubbler referenced by Tim Fox at the beginning? I don't think it would work with SIPs since they couldn't wick that much up to make it that sopping? Just wondering.



Tim Fox said:


> Air injecting Sips,,, Yup it works, I am going to order a Fusion fish tank pump for 8 bucks delered on Ebay to go with my earthbox


----------



## Tim Fox (May 7, 2017)

STPM said:


> I read through this entire thread which I learned a lot from. Has anyone tried that sopping wet soil routine with an air bubbler referenced by Tim Fox at the beginning? I don't think it would work with SIPs since they couldn't wick that much up to make it that sopping? Just wondering.


my goodness,, thats so long ago, I completely forgot about that,, i hope someone else may know,, i moved onto commercially built sips for my little grow cab


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (May 8, 2017)

STPM said:


> You can get food grade diatomaceous earth real cheap. I put 1/2 tbs in a gallon of spring water to drink it as it is the best source of silica, which promotes healthy bones. It makes your hair and nails grow quicker. One site recommended it as a silica supplement for plants that grow under LEC lights (since they are supposed to grow quick under said lights), as it helps in cell generation. Since SIPs promote growth as well you guys may benefit from adding some in your res water.
> 
> I say in your res water because the body at least does not absorb silicon dioxide itself but it reacts with water to produce orthosilicic acid slowly over time. The stomach acid helps to convert it, but overall silicon is poorly absorbed in the body. If the same is true in plants having it slowly being dissolved in the water would be most effective.
> 
> And yes per the OP, people sprinkle it across their doorways to keep pests out. It is supposed to be good for bedbugs. One can sprinkle it one one's plants to keep bugs off, but not on a flowering plant outside so as to be careful to not hurt the bees.


thanks for the contribution man! i think i will give my SIPs some of this today! maybe add some aloe, molasses and cal mag too! One thing if you are new to SIPs... be ready for some TREES ...just wow!! lol


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## Evil-Mobo (May 8, 2017)

Tomatoes and peppers in their new homes for the season


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## Tim Fox (May 8, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Tomatoes and peppers in their new homes for the season
> 
> View attachment 3938785


Are those sips


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## Tim Fox (May 8, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Tomatoes and peppers in their new homes for the season
> 
> View attachment 3938785


Ops answered my own question


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## PDX Joe (May 9, 2017)

I lifted the plastic to do a top dress of amendments and noticed a bunch of feeder roots sticking out of the compost layer.


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## Tim Fox (May 10, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I lifted the plastic to do a top dress of amendments and noticed a bunch of feeder roots sticking out of the compost layer.
> View attachment 3939777


A Freakin Mazin


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 10, 2017)

hmm should i be lifting mine? i kinda have the screens drilled through the lids that are attached to the base sooo i dont know that, that is possible atm.. maybe a modification upon chopping or the next build


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## Tim Fox (May 10, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> hmm should i be lifting mine? i kinda have the screens drilled through the lids that are attached to the base sooo i dont know that, that is possible atm.. maybe a modification upon chopping or the next build


Lifting isn't required depend on if you need access i didn't look under mine for the whole grow


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## Mrbagmaster (May 10, 2017)

it brings back so many memories about the grow box. i miss my first two crops.
3 bucket hydroponic system with 400 watt metal halide and the 15 bucket system unter 1000 watt metal halide.
wish i could grow again.


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## PDX Joe (May 10, 2017)

Finished week 3 flower.


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## Tim Fox (May 10, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Finished week 3 flower.
> View attachment 3940161


a master piece,,, gotta love those cobs and sips


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## Weedy willy (May 15, 2017)

How long after starting a sip should I start adding Cal mag?


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## Evil-Mobo (May 16, 2017)

Weedy willy said:


> How long after starting a sip should I start adding Cal mag?


When your plants show a cal mag deficiency............

http://www.growweedeasy.com/common-nutrient-problems


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## Tim Fox (May 16, 2017)

Weedy willy said:


> How long after starting a sip should I start adding Cal mag?


depends,, are you growing under Cobs or under a bulb?,,,


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## Weedy willy (May 18, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> depends,, are you growing under Cobs or under a bulb?,,,


bulb


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## Humanrob (May 18, 2017)

I took the first SIPs I built (39 pages ago on this thread...) and recommissioned them for outdoor use. They were a bit tall and bulky for my tent, they are 14 gallon bins sitting in 18 gallon bins. Now they have tomatoes in them, and I'm wondering how many of you outdoor SIP users cover the soil on your SIPs? I think its Earthbox (?) that does that, just wondering if its beneficial?

 

I threw together a couple of fresh SIPs for an unplanned indoor summer grow, simple #7 fabric pots over 10 gallon bins. They were root bound and going through some sort of shock, so I'm hoping the mix of fresh soil, warmer weather, and SIP goodness will turn them around.


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## ttystikk (May 18, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I took the first SIPs I built (39 pages ago on this thread...) and recommissioned them for outdoor use. They were a bit tall and bulky for my tent, they are 14 gallon bins sitting in 18 gallon bins. Now they have tomatoes in them, and I'm wondering how many of you outdoor SIP users cover the soil on your SIPs? I think its Earthbox (?) that does that, just wondering it its beneficial?
> 
> View attachment 3945015 View attachment 3945016
> 
> ...


I'd cover the soil just to reduce moisture loss and keep it cooler in the sun.


----------



## PDX Joe (May 18, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I took the first SIPs I built (39 pages ago on this thread...) and recommissioned them for outdoor use. They were a bit tall and bulky for my tent, they are 14 gallon bins sitting in 18 gallon bins. Now they have tomatoes in them, and I'm wondering how many of you outdoor SIP users cover the soil on your SIPs? I think its Earthbox (?) that does that, just wondering it its beneficial?
> 
> View attachment 3945015 View attachment 3945016
> 
> ...


Definitely cover them. You'll save a ton of water. You can also grow a mycelium mat under the cover to help break down any organic nutrients you're adding.


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## Tim Fox (May 18, 2017)

Weedy willy said:


> bulb


its been 25 years since i grew with bulbs,, back then i never added cal mag to my flood drain,,, but now that i grow with cobs,, the plants are always cal mag hungry children,, and cant seem to get enough of it,,, 
on my next grow i am going to water down my sip with cal mag already in the inital mix,, and every watering till about mid flower


----------



## Tim Fox (May 18, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I took the first SIPs I built (39 pages ago on this thread...) and recommissioned them for outdoor use. They were a bit tall and bulky for my tent, they are 14 gallon bins sitting in 18 gallon bins. Now they have tomatoes in them, and I'm wondering how many of you outdoor SIP users cover the soil on your SIPs? I think its Earthbox (?) that does that, just wondering it its beneficial?
> 
> View attachment 3945015 View attachment 3945016
> 
> ...


Yup i am with those dudes,, i cover,,, last year my outdoor sip got really soaked by oregon rains,, and i watched as the water ran off the sip an donto the ground,, knowing just how the soil mix is controlled with the wicks, the extra water would have surely water logged the sip


----------



## ttystikk (May 18, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> its been 25 years since i grew with bulbs,, back then i never added cal mag to my flood drain,,, but now that i grow with cobs,, the plants are always cal mag hungry children,, and cant seem to get enough of it,,,
> on my next grow i am going to water down my sip with cal mag already in the inital mix,, and every watering till about mid flower


You've been growing with LED for 25 years??


----------



## Tim Fox (May 18, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> You've been growing with LED for 25 years??


oh that would be epic,,
lol no sorry,, i was under prohibition and under the spell of big booze coprorations

Edit,,,, 25 years of my life i will never get back,, sadly


----------



## Roger A. Shrubber (May 18, 2017)

i would guess he was getting pretty shitty results, leds from even 5 years ago were pretty much shit compared to what you can get now


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## Tim Fox (May 18, 2017)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> i would guess he was getting pretty shitty results, leds from even 5 years ago were pretty much shit compared to what you can get now


me?,,, lol,, i have yet to match the stuff i grew under a 400 watt metal halide back in the day,, i feel like an old man playing catch up to my 21 year old self


----------



## Roger A. Shrubber (May 18, 2017)

we were just hypothesizing what you were using if it wasn't bulbs or leds (ignoring the possibility you weren't using anything)....a lot of candles...mass breeding fireflies....lots of light sticks....you gene-spliced them with bio-luminescent
fish and they light themselves....moonlight and many magnifying glasses


----------



## Tim Fox (May 19, 2017)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> we were just hypothesizing what you were using if it wasn't bulbs or leds (ignoring the possibility you weren't using anything)....a lot of candles...mass breeding fireflies....lots of light sticks....you gene-spliced them with bio-luminescent
> fish and they light themselves....moonlight and many magnifying glasses


I love it to fun thanks for thebig smile this morning


----------



## Tim Fox (May 19, 2017)

alright, got my outdoor sip planted yesterday,, this is my summer tomato grow, a single plant this time,, also switched sips,, now using the "grow box",,, the old earthbox is in the barn, i may yet put some peppers or something in it, But like last year i can shake down the new sip,, and make improvements before going into my grow cab for MJ in the fall/winter,,, , i love the double size Res,, holds over 4 gallons compared to the 2 gallon earthbox,, also i can see the water level,, the perlite actually makes it easier to see the level in the res,, the old earthbox had a fill tube,, so no clue as to res level until it over flowed,, with this new sip there will be no water mess or leaks in the Grow wardrobe becuase i can just fill till near the top and stop before over flow occurs,,, 
i am going to grow some outdoor MJ this year,, but i am just doing autos in the ground over by my bedroom window,, so i may just do a grow thread for them over in the auto section,, the reason for autos outdoors ,, is i am going to try and be harvested before the fall rains come here in Oregon


----------



## Tim Fox (May 19, 2017)

Afternoon sip growers hello from Oregon i tried to get mybullet pipe in the pic hahahaha


----------



## ttystikk (May 19, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Afternoon sip growers hello from Oregon i tried to get mybullet pipe in the pic hahahahaView attachment 3945551


Wuss. My hot tub is under the stars.


----------



## greg nr (May 20, 2017)

Like the rubber ducky tho.......


----------



## Tim Fox (May 20, 2017)

greg nr said:


> Like the rubber ducky tho.......


I tried to find a palm tree chlorine floater,, seems the pool shop is more interested in childrens themes,, hahaha,,,,
oh man the hot tub felt fantastic last night, I put a digital control panel and digital control box underneath last summer,, working so good,, I tried to open the swimming pool yesterday but i needed a new hose clamp,, but i was already to stoned to drive to the hardware store,, hahaha,,,, we have some 90 degree days coming this week,, so gotta get it running,,, 
speaking of gettting things running,, with these warm temps,, i think its time to start popping some auto seeds for the outdoor run this week


----------



## Tim Fox (May 20, 2017)

Two outdoor sips up and running ,i planted 2 bell pepper varieties in the old earthbox


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## PDX Joe (May 22, 2017)

I noticed a bunch of springtails floating around and jumping around in the water res. at the bottom of my pots. Has anyone run into this in their SIPs?


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## Humanrob (May 26, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I noticed a bunch of springtails floating around and jumping around in the water res. at the bottom of my pots. Has anyone run into this in their SIPs?


No, but I did sample the res water in my first SIP run and look at it under my 30x loop and I saw what I imagine were ameba swimming around in there. Where there is soil, there will be life.


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## Tim Fox (May 26, 2017)

i had worms come out of my res last year


----------



## Humanrob (May 26, 2017)

SIP growers, I have an observation and I'm wondering if I'm imagining things or if others have seen this: I've noticed that with SIPs overall growth comes significantly more quickly, but _at a cost_ -- it seems to me that my plants produce much more mass but that the branches are thinner and weaker. With some strains (in my small grow spaces) even after pretty severe trimming, the mass of quickly produced foliage forces me to flip to flower earlier than I would normally, leaving me with a younger less woody plant than I prefer to have. 

With fabric pots I would veg for 6-8 weeks, trimming and shaping, and I would have a sturdy little bush with a strong woody main trunk when I went to 12/12. With SIPs forcing me to flip early, and the resulting thinner branches lead to smaller buds. 

Anyone else notice this?

Afterthought... I've read a few people on RIU say that using COBs can speed things up also, so maybe this is a SIP/COB phenomenon?


----------



## ttystikk (May 26, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> SIP growers, I have an observation and I'm wondering if I'm imagining things or if others have seen this: I've noticed that with SIPs overall growth comes significantly more quickly, but _at a cost_ -- it seems to me that my plants produce much more mass but that the branches are thinner and weaker. With some strains (in my small grow spaces) even after pretty severe trimming, the mass of quickly produced foliage forces me to flip to flower earlier than I would normally, leaving me with a younger less woody plant than I prefer to have.
> 
> With fabric pots I would veg for 6-8 weeks, trimming and shaping, and I would have a sturdy little bush with a strong woody main trunk when I went to 12/12. With SIPs forcing me to flip early, and the resulting thinner branches lead to smaller buds.
> 
> ...


Is your goal to grow stems or bud?


----------



## Humanrob (May 26, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Is your goal to grow stems or bud?


Uh... bud?

The stems are thinner, the buds are smaller, that's part of what's bothering me. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.


----------



## ttystikk (May 26, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Uh... bud?
> 
> The stems are thinner, the buds are smaller, that's part of what's bothering me. Sorry if I wasn't clear about that.


They need topped once or twice.


----------



## greg nr (May 27, 2017)

Ok, took the plunge. These are the garden box planters with build-a-soils kit nutrient soil.. The one with 2 plants are bodhi sunshine daydream and the other is bodhi gogi og. I just transplanted them into the boxen so they are still in recovery. I'm going to train and stabilize them for a week (or two) and flip them.

I'm only adding 2 gallons at a time to give the res a chance to get low before adding more. That should cut down on sprites growing down there. 

I still haven't added a cover or any compost/castings to the top. Might just let it ride without for a bit.

What do people do? Cover with goodies on top or leave open air?


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (May 29, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> SIP growers, I have an observation and I'm wondering if I'm imagining things or if others have seen this: I've noticed that with SIPs overall growth comes significantly more quickly, but _at a cost_ -- it seems to me that my plants produce much more mass but that the branches are thinner and weaker. With some strains (in my small grow spaces) even after pretty severe trimming, the mass of quickly produced foliage forces me to flip to flower earlier than I would normally, leaving me with a younger less woody plant than I prefer to have.
> 
> With fabric pots I would veg for 6-8 weeks, trimming and shaping, and I would have a sturdy little bush with a strong woody main trunk when I went to 12/12. With SIPs forcing me to flip early, and the resulting thinner branches lead to smaller buds.
> 
> ...



Yes i notice this as well! In fact I'm dealing with some thin stems now and massive buds on the C99 strain and this one money maker pheno..I was on vacation for about 9 days (with 5 plants in flower and no moving parts and everything is still kicking just fine OMG I LOVE SIPS!!!!) and came back and wondered where my C99 plant went turns out the two main HUGE colas could not be supported by the stems and it fell into the other plant lol.. I have added some gardening wire to her now to hold up the colas... i think though that in my case this is more about a lack of wind early in there lives as well as yes.... 8 weeks of veg and WOW you have monsters... i was not ready for that ... and i topped 2 or 3 times and they still waaaay out grew my screens.... This last run was from seed so I really wanted to make sure I had mature plants before going into flower. Next run will be from clone so I will only be doing about 4 weeks of veg. Also I am only under a 600 W HPS atm (never could pull the trigger on the COBS but hopefully soon.)


----------



## Humanrob (May 29, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yes i notice this as well! In fact I'm dealing with some thin stems now and massive buds on the C99 strain and this one money maker pheno..I was on vacation for about 9 days (with 5 plants in flower and no moving parts and everything is still kicking just fine OMG I LOVE SIPS!!!!) and came back and wondered where my C99 plant went turns out the two main HUGE colas could not be supported by the stems and it fell into the other plant lol.. I have added some gardening wire to her now to hold up the colas... i think though that in my case this is more about a lack of wind early in there lives as well as yes.... 8 weeks of veg and WOW you have monsters... i was not ready for that ... and i topped 2 or 3 times and they still waaaay out grew my screens.... This last run was from seed so I really wanted to make sure I had mature plants before going into flower. Next run will be from clone so I will only be doing about 4 weeks of veg. Also I am only under a 600 W HPS atm (never could pull the trigger on the COBS but hopefully soon.)


I'm on my third indoor grow where I've used SIPs. I've used entirely different SIPs each time, ranging from 14 gallon bins inside 18 gallon, to two 3 gallon bins stacked. The first time I did not notice this issue, the last two times I have. I'm not sure what I did differently that might have impacted the type of growth. I would blame it on short veg times, but in a recent grow with regular fabric 2 gallon pots in soil I only vegged for 2.5 weeks and had thicker sturdier stems than I'm getting in these grows. Those plants were compact little trees, as opposed to these sprawling thin branched plants I seem to be growing in SIPs. Overall I prefer SIPs, I just wish I could get a handle on this.

Here are some pics of the current grow...
5/21, 5/26, 5/29 (flipped to 12/12 on 5/28 )
  

These plants spent 4 weeks in 1 gallon pots (too long, they were root bound), and then after only 10 days in the SIPs they filled the screen to the point where I had to flip. I'll keep training them through the first week or two of flower, or until I completely run out of room to spread them out, whichever comes first. These were from clones that had decent shapes, and I only topped them once to discourage the main branch from becoming dominant, they didn't need any topping after that. I've done a few passes of trimming small branches from the below the screen to discourage popcorn bud, but that's about all they've needed.


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## Humanrob (May 29, 2017)

greg nr said:


> What do people do? Cover with goodies on top or leave open air?


I've done it both ways. At this point the only time I cover them is if I'm having a gnat problem, if you can get a decent seal on the cover it will disrupt their cycle and basically end them, in my experience.


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## Tim Fox (May 30, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yes i notice this as well! In fact I'm dealing with some thin stems now and massive buds on the C99 strain and this one money maker pheno..I was on vacation for about 9 days (with 5 plants in flower and no moving parts and everything is still kicking just fine OMG I LOVE SIPS!!!!) and came back and wondered where my C99 plant went turns out the two main HUGE colas could not be supported by the stems and it fell into the other plant lol.. I have added some gardening wire to her now to hold up the colas... i think though that in my case this is more about a lack of wind early in there lives as well as yes.... 8 weeks of veg and WOW you have monsters... i was not ready for that ... and i topped 2 or 3 times and they still waaaay out grew my screens.... This last run was from seed so I really wanted to make sure I had mature plants before going into flower. Next run will be from clone so I will only be doing about 4 weeks of veg. Also I am only under a 600 W HPS atm (never could pull the trigger on the COBS but hopefully soon.)


I really enjoy how the sips take care of the plants, with a big enough Res long vacations are not scary anymore, Hey @meangreengrowinmachine Join us in the land of COBS brother,, you wont regret it , and never look back,, several of us Sip growers are cobbers,


Humanrob said:


> I'm on my third indoor grow where I've used SIPs. I've used entirely different SIPs each time, ranging from 14 gallon bins inside 18 gallon, to two 3 gallon bins stacked. The first time I did not notice this issue, the last two times I have. I'm not sure what I did differently that might have impacted the type of growth. I would blame it on short veg times, but in a recent grow with regular fabric 2 gallon pots in soil I only vegged for 2.5 weeks and had thicker sturdier stems than I'm getting in these grows. Those plants were compact little trees, as opposed to these sprawling thin branched plants I seem to be growing in SIPs. Overall I prefer SIPs, I just wish I could get a handle on this.
> 
> Here are some pics of the current grow...
> 5/21, 5/26, 5/29 (flipped to 12/12 on 5/28 )
> ...


Hey Rob , super healthy plants , your filling that screen so well,,
on my last grow i had really thick trucks at the soil level, but i really over topped,, and had a bunch of tiny stems, i really didnt like it, i was really worried about the old PM, but green cure kept all signs of it away thankfully,, but next grow i dont want that, I kinda wonder about more plants and less topping,, i wonder how 4 plants would look in one earthbox?,,


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## Humanrob (May 30, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Hey Rob , super healthy plants , your filling that screen so well,,
> on my last grow i had really thick trucks at the soil level, but i really over topped,, and had a bunch of tiny stems, i really didnt like it, i was really worried about the old PM, but green cure kept all signs of it away thankfully,, but next grow i dont want that, I kinda wonder about more plants and less topping,, i wonder how 4 plants would look in one earthbox?,,


So far so good on this grow. I did notice some moisture collecting on some leaves, I'm having trouble controlling humidity in this grow space during the summer when its too hot to run the dehumidifier. I turned up the exhaust fan and I'll hit them again with GreenCure. I might also add a stronger internal fan. Didn't need the more intense air movement in a dry winter run, but I might need it now.

I think with 4 plants you'd need to do a 12/12 from seed type of grow, or if you used clones, maybe give them a week to put out some fresh roots and then flip them. That might be an experiment worth doing, I'm not sure how it would go.


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## Humanrob (May 30, 2017)

I did a search on the strain I'm growing in my SIPs (Cannatonic), and found grow information about this strain from the company that developed it. (http://resinseeds.net/strains/cannatonic-grow-guide/)

One interesting thing (among many) that they say is:


FLOODING: WATER FROM THE BOTTOM. DURING THIS FIRST WEEK OF 12 HOURS OF LIGHT IT IS SUGGESTED TO USE SMALL AMOUNTS OF WATER FOR FLOODING. IDEALLY YOU SHOULD FLOOD ONCE EVERY 2 DAYS, *THIS ALSO AVOIDS PLANT STRETCHING*.
What they are implying (if I'm understanding it correctly) is that too much access to water will cause the plant to stretch... SIPs are constant access to water. I don't think I've ever heard/read before that too much water contributes to stretching, but if its true that might be a factor in what I'm experiencing.


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## Tim Fox (May 30, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I did a search on the strain I'm growing in my SIPs (Cannatonic), and found grow information about this strain from the company that developed it. (http://resinseeds.net/strains/cannatonic-grow-guide/)
> 
> One interesting thing (among many) that they say is:
> 
> ...


if this was something that occurs because of "too much access to water" then all the hydro and DWC would ditch thier systems,


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## Humanrob (May 30, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> if this was something that occurs because of "too much access to water" then all the hydro and DWC would ditch thier systems,


Good point.


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## Photon Flinger (May 30, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Good point.



Nah, just means that the plant will use more resources for root growth than to stretch. If water is readily available it will do more above the medium. 

Stretch is just fast plant growth and a sign that the plant is happy.

For those of you with thin stems, add in something with silica, I use glacial rock dust. Increase air flow as well to force the stems to bulk up.

Sips + promix + amendments and using alkaline tap water is a perfect combo. Haven't had to ph for a few months now. Res is kind of grungy but it does the trick and seems to be getting better the grungier it gets.


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## PDX Joe (May 30, 2017)

Just came back from a one week vacation and things are fine. One plant is yellowing out quickly now and it looks close to harvest. I may chop it this weekend. The other plant needs a bit more time.


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## Tim Fox (May 31, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Just came back from a one week vacation and things are fine. One plant is yellowing out quickly now and it looks close to harvest. I may chop it this weekend. The other plant needs a bit more time.View attachment 3952019


Fantastic,,, your yellowing plant looks allot like my Donkey Kong grow 2 years ago,, so nice,, you really filled your screen in nice,, Amazing job,, gotta love those sips and cobs


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 31, 2017)

@Tim Fox I can't wait to get some COBS just so spendy, I cant clear it with the wife as of yet lol

@Humanrob looking good man! and I think the thin steams might be a combo of issues, I know @Tim Fox has talked before about "sucker" branches with SIPS and I think trimming these will help focus on the main kolas, also @Photon Flinger has very good points as well.. silica and WIND lots and lots of WIND early on makes hearty thick steams... I know I am lacking in the wind dept at the moment... 5 SIPS in a approx 5x5 space... VERY crowded in there but wow this should be the best grow I have had yet.. not going back from SIPs ever! 

@PDX Joe looking good but I bet if you left them a bit they would bulk up (-; and isn't being able to go away and not worry about your plants GREAT!!!!??

I'll post some pics of my girls tomorrow when they awake!! 

Smoke em if you gotta em yall.. New bong appetite on vice land right now!!!


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## PDX Joe (May 31, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> @Tim Fox I can't wait to get some COBS just so spendy, I cant clear it with the wife as of yet lol
> 
> @Humanrob looking good man! and I think the thin steams might be a combo of issues, I know @Tim Fox has talked before about "sucker" branches with SIPS and I think trimming these will help focus on the main kolas, also @Photon Flinger has very good points as well.. silica and WIND lots and lots of WIND early on makes hearty thick steams... I know I am lacking in the wind dept at the moment... 5 SIPS in a approx 5x5 space... VERY crowded in there but wow this should be the best grow I have had yet.. not going back from SIPs ever!
> 
> ...


Yeah, the buds on the left plant are a bit small. The other plant is a bit better. My light may be a bit light on power, but I think I will soon remedy that. And I think I will have plenty for my own personal stash. I'm really liking the remote reservoir. It holds about 10 gallons which lasts a lot longer than my outdoor SIPs, so I was okay leaving for a bit longer.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Yeah, the buds on the left plant are a bit small. The other plant is a bit better. My light may be a bit light on power, but I think I will soon remedy that. And I think I will have plenty for my own personal stash. I'm really liking the remote reservoir. It holds about 10 gallons which lasts a lot longer than my outdoor SIPs, so I was okay leaving for a bit longer.


Lol,,, a bit more power scotty,, warp speed,,, hahaha,,,, but seriously, i had 250 watts of cobs in 6 square feet of space on my last grow , and got around 10-11 ounces dried, but i have an old Cob panel sitting around doing nothing that has 4 cree cxa3070's running at 54 watts each,, i was thinking about cutting up a new frame and mounting 6 cobs on the next grow,, 4 citi 1812 4k's and then 2 of the 3070's at 3K for a total wattage of 358 watts, so at full power there would be just over 50 watts per square of cob power,, the citi's are dimmable so i can dial it down for seedlings/clones, and flip on the cree's during flower when they are hardened off, 
its the Tim Allen in my Rah Rah Rah,,, gotta do it over here,,


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## Tim Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> @Tim Fox I can't wait to get some COBS just so spendy, I cant clear it with the wife as of yet lol
> 
> @Humanrob looking good man! and I think the thin steams might be a combo of issues, I know @Tim Fox has talked before about "sucker" branches with SIPS and I think trimming these will help focus on the main kolas, also @Photon Flinger has very good points as well.. silica and WIND lots and lots of WIND early on makes hearty thick steams... I know I am lacking in the wind dept at the moment... 5 SIPS in a approx 5x5 space... VERY crowded in there but wow this should be the best grow I have had yet.. not going back from SIPs ever!
> 
> ...


the sucker branches,, yup I had thousands of them,, or so it felt, i got allot of popcorn stuff of them for making butter and oils, the popcorn buds are potent enough,, and do smoke well in the pipe,, just wouldnt be able to sale it at the legal dispensaries,, but i found myself asking,, if its just for me, and i have a use for it, such as the butter,, then why not grow it,, i have to ask,, if i cut off the sucker branches would the top cola's get bigger and make up for the wieght ???? since i am only doing 1 grow per year now i dont really have time to do testing , so i will watch you guys and see what happens,, 
Sips are here to stay bro,, i am never going back,, next grow i am looking forward to the new sip, i can see the res level at a glance and its twice the size,, I should be able to go away for a long 3 day weekend i am sure,, 
@Humanrob has those sips with the 10 gallon res i think,, now thats a vacation set up right there!!!!


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## ttystikk (Jun 1, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> the sucker branches,, yup I had thousands of them,, or so it felt, i got allot of popcorn stuff of them for making butter and oils, the popcorn buds are potent enough,, and do smoke well in the pipe,, just wouldnt be able to sale it at the legal dispensaries,, but i found myself asking,, if its just for me, and i have a use for it, such as the butter,, then why not grow it,, i have to ask,, if i cut off the sucker branches would the top cola's get bigger and make up for the wieght ???? since i am only doing 1 grow per year now i dont really have time to do testing , so i will watch you guys and see what happens,,
> Sips are here to stay bro,, i am never going back,, next grow i am looking forward to the new sip, i can see the res level at a glance and its twice the size,, I should be able to go away for a long 3 day weekend i am sure,,
> @Humanrob has those sips with the 10 gallon res i think,, now thats a vacation set up right there!!!!


Popcorn is from sucker branches, which on almost any plant will rob from the tops.

Gonna do a SIPS run myself soon and see what the fuss is all about.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Popcorn is from sucker branches, which on almost any plant will rob from the tops.
> 
> Gonna do a SIPS run myself soon and see what the fuss is all about.


yes, but does it equal out in weight? thats what i really want to know,, i dont need fat cola's,, dont plan to enter them in the state fair,,,oh, here in Oregon, MJ plants are now part of the state fair judging,, can you believe it


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## Humanrob (Jun 1, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Gonna do a SIPS run myself soon and see what the fuss is all about.


It seems to "give the best of both worlds", hydro quick growth with the ease of soil. All the nutes (dry time release) are added when the plants are transplanted into the SIP. Some people add stuff to the res, but its not necessary. So far I have found nothing easier. I can't say whether it yields the best/tastiest/strongest cannabis, but in my experience, it's one step closer to fool-proof growing. And as the recent posts indicate, the ability to go away for a few days and not worry about them drying out adds to the ease. With my 10 gallon bin res (probably holds about 8 gallons of water) so far I can fill it once a week. When they get bigger, they will drink more. 

I jammed my phone into the fill port for some crude pics, this is very early in the grow so they've just started, but they have developed "water roots". I've seen pics on RIU of huge amounts of these roots (@SomeGuy had some great shots). 
  

These pics are taken 10 days apart (7 days in, flipped to 12/12). I had to trim the plants each day for 4 consecutive days, and I'll have to keep trimming every few days for a while. The growth is kind of out of control... I do wonder if its too much sometimes. Almost feels like I've cross bred with Kudzu.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> It seems to "give the best of both worlds", hydro quick growth with the ease of soil. All the nutes (dry time release) are added when the plants are transplanted into the SIP. Some people add stuff to the res, but its not necessary. So far I have found nothing easier. I can't say whether it yields the best/tastiest/strongest cannabis, but in my experience, it's one step closer to fool-proof growing. And as the recent posts indicate, the ability to go away for a few days and not worry about them drying out adds to the ease. With my 10 gallon bin res (probably holds about 8 gallons of water) so far I can fill it once a week. When they get bigger, they will drink more.
> 
> I jammed my phone into the fill port for some crude pics, this is very early in the grow so they've just started, but they have developed "water roots". I've seen pics on RIU of huge amounts of these roots (@SomeGuy had some great shots).
> View attachment 3952746 View attachment 3952744
> ...


quality photos, Awesome examples of how to do it in Sips,, Hey @Humanrob how tall are your 10 gallon sips floor to top of fabric,, thanks


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## Humanrob (Jun 1, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> quality photos, Awesome examples of how to do it in Sips,, Hey @Humanrob how tall are your 10 gallon sips floor to top of fabric,, thanks


The short answer: 17" from the floor to the soil line.
Long answer: The 10 gallon tote is 8.5" tall at the edge, but recessed in the middle and sagging under the weight of the soil (I'll reinforce it before I use this one again). The "#7" Redi Root fabric pot is 11" tall, but I don't have it filled to the top. All that explains the "short answer". 

My scrog is at about 28", and the tent is 6' tall. Hopefully this strain doesn't stretch too much, I'm using hotter lights on this run so they need more room.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 1, 2017)

The five gallon sips get it done too I have come up with an idea to test on th next one I build that will allow me to have more water in my res but keep with the same five gallon buckets and their foot print. We will see what happens.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> The five gallon sips get it done too I have come up with an idea to test on th next one I build that will allow me to have more water in my res but keep with the same five gallon buckets and it's foot print. We will see what happens.
> 
> View attachment 3952764


Quantum boards and SIPS,,, whew i had to sit down for a moment


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## ttystikk (Jun 1, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> The five gallon sips get it done too I have come up with an idea to test on th next one I build that will allow me to have more water in my res but keep with the same five gallon buckets and their foot print. We will see what happens.
> 
> View attachment 3952764


I tried something like this but mine were a disaster. I'm interested to see what you do with them.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 1, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I tried something like this but mine were a disaster. I'm interested to see what you do with them.


This current setup has never failed me thus far. My thoughts is to take a third bucket and clear cut the bottom out of it so it becomes a spacer. In theory then I would add to my res the amount of a second setup so should go from 1.5 gallons to three. I'm going to try it with the nest one I build and if it works the current buckets will be easy to mod between plants. Everything it seems is a work in progress growing this plant lol. I am loving the continual learning process.


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## ttystikk (Jun 1, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> This current setup has never failed me thus far. My thoughts is to take a third bucket and clear cut the bottom out of it so it becomes a spacer. In theory then I would add to my res the amount of a second setup so should go from 1.5 gallons to three. I'm going to try it with the nest one I build and if it works the current buckets will be easy to mod between plants. Everything it seems is a work in progress growing this plant lol. I am loving the continual learning process.


My buckets sat in water up to 6" deep and drowned my plants.


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## ttystikk (Jun 1, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> yes, but does it equal out in weight? thats what i really want to know,, i dont need fat cola's,, dont plan to enter them in the state fair,,,oh, here in Oregon, MJ plants are now part of the state fair judging,, can you believe it


Yes, I can believe it, they started doing that a year or two ago.

The suckers underneath don't get light. Stripping them send so to the parts that do. Result is substantially more weight at higher quality. Bonus; better airflow underneath and less chance of powdery mildew, root, etc.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 1, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> My buckets sat in water up to 6" deep and drowned my plants.



I'm not following there should always be a gap of an inch between the soil bucket and the water just the wick should sit in the water............


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## ttystikk (Jun 1, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> I'm not following there should always be a gap of an inch between the soil bucket and the water just the wick should sit in the water............


That was my issue. No wick, just the 5 gallon bucket sitting in the water. Trying it with a wick next.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 1, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> That was my issue. No wick, just the 5 gallon bucket sitting in the water. Trying it with a wick next.


Yes I would say that was most definitely your issue. When you try it again as I mentioned with the air gap you will see the magic happen


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## Humanrob (Jun 1, 2017)

@Evil-Mobo -- interesting design, the "footprint" could allow for more plants in the space. My issues has been vertical space limitations. I built a couple of 5 gallon fabric pots sitting on top of 3 gallon buckets, but they turned out to be 22" tall and so I've never actually used them. The ones I'm doing now could be even shorter if I had gone with one 10 gallon bin stacked on another. Sad to say the only reason I didn't was I was too lazy, I would have had to put together water level indicators, which require more parts and work. With my current design I have one opening that I check the water level and fill it from, and its super simple. The stacked design would shave off another 2" of height (and have more soil). Maybe next time.


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## greg nr (Jun 1, 2017)

My new crop are loving the sips... 2x garden box sips, build-a-soil blended kit soil, 1 gogi og on left, 2 x sunshine daydream on right, 2x quantum boards running about 300w....


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 1, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> @Evil-Mobo -- interesting design, the "footprint" could allow for more plants in the space. My issues has been vertical space limitations. I built a couple of 5 gallon fabric pots sitting on top of 3 gallon buckets, but they turned out to be 22" tall and so I've never actually used them. The ones I'm doing now could be even shorter if I had gone with one 10 gallon bin stacked on another. Sad to say the only reason I didn't was I was too lazy, I would have had to put together water level indicators, which require more parts and work. With my current design I have one opening that I check the water level and fill it from, and its super simple. The stacked design would shave off another 2" of height (and have more soil). Maybe next time.


I'm using my dwc buckets as the res which is great because they have a sight tube. I zip tie where the water level should be calculating for the inch of space and from that point on it's just water down the fill tube until it reaches the zip tie but I do not have overflow all over the floors of the tents. And yes having more plants is a big reason I'd like to stick with the footprint I have per unit right now, it's also easy to move things around like this which I frequently need to when running a perpetual. I'm not saying my way is the way just saying this is what fits my needs and sharing the info in case it might benefit someone else. My only complaint is the low res capacity which I addressed in a previous post what I'm going to try to remedy that and I really can't see why it would not work. If it does I could get a solid four days between having to water if needed be which with my health issues can happen from time to time.

Had I been in hydro this last run I would have lost it. But because of the sips I didn't


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## Tim Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> My buckets sat in water up to 6" deep and drowned my plants.


um


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## Tim Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Yes I would say that was most definitely your issue. When you try it again as I mentioned with the air gap you will see the magic happen


you know,, there is so much to open our eyes too,, seems i have learned more in my 50's than when i thought i knew it all at 19,, problem is i cant remember like i once did,, but seems the air gap is the premier claus,,


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 1, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> you know,, there is so much to open our eyes too,, seems i have learned more in my 50's than when i thought i knew it all at 19,, problem is i cant remember like i once did,, but seems the air gap is the premier claus,,


Everyday I grow this plant I learn something new. It's actually one of the things that has kept my interest in this hobby because things are constantly evolving in our grows as we learn. I am always open minded to talking with others about growing as exp, I have found, to be one of the best teachers around.


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## ttystikk (Jun 1, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> um


I didn't say it was a good idea!


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## Tim Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I didn't say it was a good idea!


you know,, your well known around here,, and if you thought sips were simply bottom watering,, and put your pot into a pool,, you missed the mark,, just sayin


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## ttystikk (Jun 1, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> you know,, your well known around here,, and if you thought sips were simply bottom watering,, and put your pot into a pool,, you missed the mark,, just sayin


True story.

That's why I'm taking another approach this time.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 1, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> True story.
> 
> That's why I'm taking another approach this time.


wow,, sips are like hydro, even many of us are debating to even put oxygen stones in them,, i dont,, i think hyroot and some guy stopped, i never did,, based on my summer grows, it is insane the growth rate ,, it matches what i used to get with hydro,, but none of the work,, well everyone has said it,, wears on me


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jun 1, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> yes, but does it equal out in weight? thats what i really want to know,, i dont need fat cola's,, dont plan to enter them in the state fair,,,oh, here in Oregon, MJ plants are now part of the state fair judging,, can you believe it


hahaha 4H enrollment is going to sky rocket now!!!


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## Tim Fox (Jun 2, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> hahaha 4H enrollment is going to sky rocket now!!!


way cool, i never thought of that, my daugher did horse 4h and pig 4 h,, now there will be Cannabis 4H club


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## greg nr (Jun 2, 2017)

Would that make it 5 H? head, heart, hands, health, and high.


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## ttystikk (Jun 2, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> way cool, i never thought of that, my daugher did horse 4h and pig 4 h,, now there will be Cannabis 4H club





greg nr said:


> Would that make it 5 H? head, heart, hands, health, and high.


It's been legal to brew beer, make wine and distill whiskey for decades now, but they are not 4H approved. Neither will Cannabis.

For the over 21 crowd, sure.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 2, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> It's been legal to brew beer, make wine and distill whiskey for decades now, but they are not 4H approved. Neither will Cannabis.
> 
> For the over 21 crowd, sure.


aww man come on dad,, let us have some fun,, hahaha


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## ttystikk (Jun 2, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> aww man come on dad,, let us have some fun,, hahaha


I was the kid who got yelled at for looking up winemaking in high school.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 2, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I was the kid who got yelled at for looking up winemaking in high school.


in 8th grade we had a science teacher who wanted to show us what phosphorus did in a glasss of water,,, i was sitting about 3 row back,, the teacher accidently put too much in the glass, and it not only caught fire like it was supposed to,, but the reaction was just too much, and the glass of water exploded, and sent shardes into the first row of kids,, several had to be taken to the er,, talk about a wild day at school


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## Humanrob (Jun 2, 2017)

My parents sent me to a religious school (K-8 ), where in 8th grade I was the only kid in the history of the school to get busted for smoking pot (most likely because I was the only kid in the history of the school who had ever tried it). One of my idiot friends was bragging to others on the bus about what I was doing and some well meaning little shit who overheard probably felt certain that "god was watching" and thought turning me in was their moral duty. In retrospect the whole thing is laughable, at the time in meant the principal came to my house to talk to me and my parents about how to deal with my dangerous and troubling situation. Ah, it was 1978, and no one could escape it. Not even god could protect us... Ha!


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## Tim Fox (Jun 2, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> My parents sent me to a religious school (K-8 ), where in 8th grade I was the only kid in the history of the school to get busted for smoking pot (most likely because I was the only kid in the history of the school who had ever tried it). One of my idiot friends was bragging to others on the bus about what I was doing and some well meaning little shit who overheard probably felt certain that "god was watching" and thought turning me in was their moral duty. In retrospect the whole thing is laughable, at the time in meant the principle came to my house to talk to me and my parents about how to deal with my dangerous and troubling situation. Ah, it was 1978, and no one could escape it. Not even god could protect us... Ha!


You are such a rebel


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## Humanrob (Jun 2, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> You are such a rebel


Yeah, and now they've gone and made pot legal so I'm just like everyone else...


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## PDX Joe (Jun 2, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Yeah, and now they've gone and made pot legal so I'm just like everyone else...
> 
> View attachment 3953433 View attachment 3953431 View attachment 3953432


Nice clean lower canopy. Have you switched to flower? I had my net a bit too low and made it difficult to clean up the lower junk. I wanted to make sure I had plenty of space above the net for stretch. But, next time I'm either going to go without a net or raise the net. I liked how the Autopot modification to a true SIP has worked out. So, I am thinking next time trying four pots and going with a short veg./ smaller plants and no net. I think it might be nice to be able to remove the plants from the closet and do the pruning/ cleaning up that way. Then I won't have to crawl around on my hands and knees trying to prune up under the plants. Also, I might try and reduce the amount of bud sites and give each bud a bit more space to fill out and breath a little bit. Although, this new plan is based on increasing my light from 250 Watts to around 400 Watts.


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## ttystikk (Jun 2, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> in 8th grade we had a science teacher who wanted to show us what phosphorus did in a glasss of water,,, i was sitting about 3 row back,, the teacher accidently put too much in the glass, and it not only caught fire like it was supposed to,, but the reaction was just too much, and the glass of water exploded, and sent shardes into the first row of kids,, several had to be taken to the er,, talk about a wild day at school


Today he'd be hauled off as a terrorist!

Dumb fuck, mixing explosive ingredients in a glass container.


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## Humanrob (Jun 2, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Nice clean lower canopy. Have you switched to flower?


Thanks, and I switched to flower 5 days ago. Today was the 5th time in as many days that I took a giant handful of leaves a baby stems off the underside. I fear I'll shock the plant with a "death by 1000 cuts", but I'm having humidity issues (often staying around 70%) that won't clear up until summer actually gets here and the air dries out. 



PDX Joe said:


> I am thinking next time trying four pots and going with a short veg./ smaller plants and no net. I think it might be nice to be able to remove the plants from the closet and do the pruning/ cleaning up that way. Then I won't have to crawl around on my hands and knees trying to prune up under the plants. Also, I might try and reduce the amount of bud sites and give each bud a bit more space to fill out and breath a little bit. Although, this new plan is based on increasing my light from 250 Watts to around 400 Watts.


I hear you, 100%. My last run in this tent I was testing seeds, and I ran 9 plants in 2 gallon fabric pots -- and it was fun. I could take them out and put them up on a bench and trim and inspect them at chest height. Those were basically 12/12 from seed (with a couple of clones that had a 2.5 week veg). They turned into stout little trees, with no net. I really enjoyed that run. Each method has its benefits. 

Since this one has RH issues, I've had to spray a couple of times (mostly Neem and GreenCure), and reaching to the back under the scrog and pointing the bottle forward and up to get the underside of the back of the plant... you can imagine. It sucks. But... big SIPs have benefits too. These are big enough that I drag a garden hose in to fill them, so far that's been about once a week (I've only let them get down to where there is about 2" of water in them). 

My many passes of trimming have been to thin the foliage to discourage PM, and also to try and eliminate the small branches to get the plants to focus on fewer bigger ones. Honestly, I think that is easier to do without SIPs, since I've found that plants in just regular fabric pots don't put out nearly as many small branches. 

This is the first time I've run two of the same strain side by side, it would have been a good time to do a sip vs non-sip comparison... but this grow came together last minute and these are CBD med plants, so I didn't want to mess around with them. It's on my wish list, not sure when I'll get to it.


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## Humanrob (Jun 2, 2017)

Oh, and another thing...



PDX Joe said:


> I think it might be nice to be able to remove the plants from the closet and do the pruning/ cleaning up that way.


The smallest SIPs I've worked with were 3 gallon bins stacked, and while I could lift the weight of that much water and wet soil, I'm not sure how stable those small rubbery Rubbermaid bins would be if I tried to lift them out. So far for me, it's either have non-moveable SIPs or go with fabric pots. I'll have to invent a SIP where the pot and wick are on some sort of turn-table floating over the res....


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## Humanrob (Jun 2, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> this new plan is based on increasing my light from 250 Watts to around 400 Watts.


How big is your space? Currently I'm running in a 3x3 with about 325 watts.


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## PDX Joe (Jun 2, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Thanks, and I switched to flower 5 days ago. Today was the 5th time in as many days that I took a giant handful of leaves a baby stems off the underside. I fear I'll shock the plant with a "death by 1000 cuts", but I'm having humidity issues (often staying around 70%) that won't clear up until summer actually gets here and the air dries out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I ran my humidity around 70% with temps around 82F until about midway through flower and then dropped my humidity to mid- 50's. I was trying out the VPD chart. But, I can't get much lower then 55 RH based on the same issues you're having... Oregon.

That's pretty interesting you've noticed more branching of the plants with SIPs. I guess I did notice the plants pushed out a lot of low suckers even after I would prune the low stuff. It would be interesting to determine if SIPs encourages more branching or suckers.


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## PDX Joe (Jun 2, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Oh, and another thing...
> 
> 
> 
> The smallest SIPs I've worked with were 3 gallon bins stacked, and while I could lift the weight of that much water and wet soil, I'm not sure how stable those small rubbery Rubbermaid bins would be if I tried to lift them out. So far for me, it's either have non-moveable SIPs or go with fabric pots. I'll have to invent a SIP where the pot and wick are on some sort of turn-table floating over the res....


The nice thing about the Autopot is I can lift the pot and wick out of the reservoir. The reservoir, tray and fill valve are all separate from the pot. The limiting factor is the largest pot size is 6.6 gallons. But, then again, I wouldn't want to lift anything larger than that anyway. I do think I'm a bit limited on how long I can veg. I think I pushed them to their max. at 5-6 weeks of veg. In retrospect I would probably limit my veg. to around 4 weeks and therefore increase my plant number to four. The other thing I will do next time is leave the soil level a few inches lower than the pot edge to allow for more top dressing with compost through the grow. I left the soil about an inch low, but it was a little tight trying to fit more compost and EWC.


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## PDX Joe (Jun 2, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> How big is your space? Currently I'm running in a 3x3 with about 325 watts.


My closet is 3ft. x 2.75ft. So, I'm at about 30 watts per sq.ft. which is a bit low. Although, the light pulls a bit more than that in reality... about 270 watts. I suppose I only need about 330 - 350. But, I'll stick the additional COBs on a dimmer and run them softer than that, and then if I want the extra power then I have it. I also wouldn't mind having the additional heat as well. The exhaust fan can really knock the heat down too much. These tiny little micro-climate grow rooms can be a bit tricky to fine tune.


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## Humanrob (Jun 2, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> My closet is 3ft. x 2.75ft. So, I'm at about 30 watts per sq.ft. which is a bit low. Although, the light pulls a bit more than that in reality... about 270 watts. I suppose I only need about 330 - 350. But, I'll stick the additional COBs on a dimmer and run them softer than that, and then if I want the extra power then I have it. I also wouldn't mind having the additional heat as well. The exhaust fan can really knock the heat down too much. These tiny little micro-climate grow rooms can be a bit tricky to fine tune.


The Autopots sound cool. At some point I'll have to look into them.

One of my best COB grows was at 37.5w/sf (300w in a 2x4 tent). I've gone 50w/sf a few times which has worked well, but when I've pushed it further I find I run into issues. I have more lights and can add them if the grow seems to need them, but that might be limited by heat issues. The grow tent is an old detached 1 car garage that now is partially insulated and has a small window that actually opens (I'm in the process of doing improvements to the structure). For winter runs its not a problem -- I run a dehumidifier and HID lights and need no additional heat. It was nowhere in my plan to do a summer run in there, a total last minute impulse. We had a few 90º days already this year, and I've seen how the space builds up heat. These Cannatonics can go 10 weeks, which would take it into August. Hopefully I can pull this off.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 3, 2017)

Outdoor SIP's doing their thing........


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## Humanrob (Jun 3, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Outdoor SIP's doing their thing........


Nice looking veggies. 

I've got three SIPs going outside this year, two have tomatoes, one has a Dark Devil Auto. Are you in a state where you can grow cannabis outdoors?


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 3, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Nice looking veggies.
> 
> I've got three SIPs going outside this year, two have tomatoes, one has a Dark Devil Auto. Are you in a state where you can grow cannabis outdoors?


Unfortunately not yet. Vote was passed but delays getting things into action. If not I'd have a hoop house full of sips outside lol


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## Humanrob (Jun 3, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Unfortunately not yet. Vote was passed but delays getting things into action. If not I'd have a hoop house full of sips outside lol


I look forward to seeing how those go when you get there. 

Last year I tried various fabric pots, a couple of SIPs, and some in the ground. In the end, for me, nothing is better than growing in the ground. The downside is they can get huge, but that can be dealt with by starting later in the season. I am trying an auto in a SIP outside this year, I'm thinking its little life won't be long enough to be stunted by being in a pot.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 3, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I look forward to seeing how those go when you get there.
> 
> Last year I tried various fabric pots, a couple of SIPs, and some in the ground. In the end, for me, nothing is better than growing in the ground. The downside is they can get huge, but that can be dealt with by starting later in the season. I am trying an auto in a SIP outside this year, I'm thinking its little life won't be long enough to be stunted by being in a pot.


My first Auto in a SIP is flowering right now she is well on her way and much larger than I expected her to be at this point especially for a supposed "indica dom hybrid" lol.........

This was two days ago.......


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## PDX Joe (Jun 4, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> My first Auto in a SIP is flowering right now she is well on her way and much larger than I expected her to be at this point especially for a supposed "indica dom hybrid" lol.........
> 
> This was two days ago.......
> 
> View attachment 3954229 View attachment 3954230


How long was the auto grow from start to finish?


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 4, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> How long was the auto grow from start to finish?


That one pictured is not done yet the last three were all under 60 days with one at 53 days these days being counted from the time they pop the dirt. I stopped counting the days on my autos now I just wait til they look close and then start checking trichs


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 4, 2017)

Got a trellis net up for the tomatoes but me thinks I will have to go bigger in the future lol ......


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## PDX Joe (Jun 6, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> That one pictured is not done yet the last three were all under 60 days with one at 53 days these days being counted from the time they pop the dirt. I stopped counting the days on my autos now I just wait til they look close and then start checking trichs


Wow, pretty quick straight from seed. You basically knock off all your veg time.

Oh, I saw your post on Autopot and thought I'd respond here. The main reason I started using the system was for their gravity fed fill valve. I thought about using one of my DIY Earthtainers in my closet, but the closet isn't very tall. I wanted something that didn't take up a lot of space vertically, but would still have a large water capacity and still perform like a SIPs. The remote reservoir holds up to 12 gallons. I can leave my 3x3 grow for two weeks if I need to... not that I want to.  Really it allows me to focus on pruning and canopy maintenance and more time staring at the plants and no time mixing nutes.

However, the way the Autopot maker says for growers to use it is more like a hempy bucket and add liquid nutrients to the res. Well, I gave it a try using Canna Coco, Jacks 321 and 2" of perlite in the bottom of the pot. I also started with the 4 gallon pots. It started great and then all went to shit. I chased my tail on a bunch of issues. There was always a deficiency and then eventually the salt built up too high in the coco and the plants basically died. So, I thought I could either try it again the same way or I could simply grow indoors the way I've been growing outdoors for years. In order to do that I needed to convert the Autopot to a SIPs. That's the mod. you'll see further back in the thread. In order to do a SIPs and feed with organic top dressed nutrients and plain water I needed to step the pot size up to the 6.6 gallon Autopot. I sacrificed some height in the closet, but it was worth it. In a perfect world I'd like the pots to hold a bit more soil. I may eventually build my own pot and use the Autopot fill valves and remote reservoir. FYI you can get the valves and reservoir separately if someone wants to experiment.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 6, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> It started great and then all went to shit


YUP,, 
plain water is so nice, mixing nutes and ph'ing water is for the birds


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## PDX Joe (Jun 7, 2017)

This is what I've got going on outdoors this year. Tomatoes, cucumbers, lettuce, zucchini, cantaloupe, snap peas and potatoes. The potatoes are the plants in the blue SIP buckets.


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## PDX Joe (Jun 7, 2017)

I'm into week 8 of flower. I may chop the left plant this weekend if I can find the time.


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## Humanrob (Jun 7, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> This is what I've got going on outdoors this year. Tomatoes, cucumbers, lettuce, zucchini, cantaloupe, snap peas and potatoes. The potatoes are the plants in the blue SIP buckets.View attachment 3956597


Wow...  beautiful garden! Is your entire veggie garden in SIPs? Have you grown all of these plants in SIPs before? I'm surprised about the potatoes, but I've never tried to even container grow those, let alone SIP grow them. I look forward to hearing how it all goes.


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## PDX Joe (Jun 7, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Wow... beautiful garden! Is your entire veggie garden in SIPs? Have you grown all of these plants in SIPs before? I'm surprised about the potatoes, but I've never tried to even container grow those, let alone SIP grow them. I look forward to hearing how it all goes.


Thanks. Everything is SIPs. Yes, I've grown all these plants in SIPs before. Cukes do awesome in them. I've grown the potatoes for three years and I get about 25lbs of potatoes out of each barrel. But, you have to fertilize them correctly. I'm trying to get the yield up this year with the potatoes. But, 25 lbs isn't bad.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 7, 2017)

Outdoor SIP's doing their thing:


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## PDX Joe (Jun 7, 2017)

Do any of you guys shut the lights off on your plants for a few days before harvest? I've heard a few people mention they do this. I think to increase trichomes? Or maybe to stop the plant from producing chlorophyll?


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 7, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Do any of you guys shut the lights off on your plants for a few days before harvest? I've heard a few people mention they do this. I think to increase trichomes? Or maybe to stop the plant from producing chlorophyll?


I don't brother but I cannot say it does or does not work because I have no exp with it. Too add trichs I just throw a bluer light in at the end with my HID (Blue MH) and now with the COB's going to test the same theory soon tossing 6500K in but in another grow not right now.


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## ttystikk (Jun 7, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Do any of you guys shut the lights off on your plants for a few days before harvest? I've heard a few people mention they do this. I think to increase trichomes? Or maybe to stop the plant from producing chlorophyll?


I don't recommend it. I've never seen anything good come from it. Bad things I've seen include powdery mildew and mold.


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## sandhill larry (Jun 7, 2017)

Hey guys. I've been skimming the posts, trying to catch up. 

I grow my tomatoes in water. Not a SIP, but a redneck raingutter grow system. I think it would work with weed too. I try to keep the water 3" inches deep at all times. {I've got my drain running into the pepper pit, so I keep the water turned on just enough to keep a little overflow going} And the part that goes in water should have a higher % of good potting soil than the soil mix in general. {I use a lot of manure compost, and it can sour if too far down in the water} The soil has enough food for a season, but I do add teas to it once in a while. This is my first year growing in buckets. I started out in grow bags two years ago, then added 3 gallon plastic pots last year. They are doing much better this year. But the hog panel is the biggest improvement. I used string before, and by the end of the season it was a mess.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 7, 2017)

sandhill larry said:


> Hey guys. I've been skimming the posts, trying to catch up.
> 
> I grow my tomatoes in water. Not a SIP, but a redneck raingutter grow system. I think it would work with weed too. I try to keep the water 3" inches deep at all times. {I've got my drain running into the pepper pit, so I keep the water turned on just enough to keep a little overflow going} And the part that goes in water should have a higher % of good potting soil than the soil mix in general. {I use a lot of manure compost, and it can sour if too far down in the water} The soil has enough food for a season, but I do add teas to it once in a while. This is my first year growing in buckets. I started out in grow bags two years ago, then added 3 gallon plastic pots last year. They are doing much better this year. But the hog panel is the biggest improvement. I used string before, and by the end of the season it was a mess.
> 
> View attachment 3956963


That is just fantastic and you could grow some monster MJ plants in the same setup wow.


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## sandhill larry (Jun 7, 2017)

But the real Raingutter grow system is a true SIP. It has a 3" net cup sunk down into the water. The buckets sits on top of the gutter.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 7, 2017)

sandhill larry said:


> But the real Raingutter grow system is a true SIP. It has a 3" net cup sunk down into the water. The buckets sits on top of the gutter.


Sir, TY very much for sharing this information. I am a believer in the SIP's and this will be perfect to continue with the buckets but make multiples easier. The foot print of the 5 gallon SIP is just so convenient. I will have to try this next year out doors with the veggies.


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## sandhill larry (Jun 7, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Sir, TY very much for sharing this information. I am a believer in the SIP's and this will be perfect to continue with the buckets but make multiples easier. The foot print of the 5 gallon SIP is just so convenient. I will have to try this next year out doors with the veggies.


Larry Hall and RGGS have a huge following on YT and FB. Folks love it. I have done it in kiddie pools as well as a trench. This year I put my water above ground, so I wasn't having to bend over to pick the tomatoes.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 7, 2017)

sandhill larry said:


> Larry Hall and RGGS have a huge following on YT and FB. Folks love it. I have done it in kiddie pools as well as a trench. This year I put my water above ground, so I wasn't having to bend over to pick the tomatoes.


My head is already spinning and I already figured how I'd do it for my tents this is going to be fantastic..........


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## PDX Joe (Jun 7, 2017)

sandhill larry said:


> But the real Raingutter grow system is a true SIP. It has a 3" net cup sunk down into the water. The buckets sits on top of the gutter.


I like how the gutter system is easily expandable and probably takes less time to build than a bunch of individual container SIPs.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 8, 2017)

sandhill larry said:


> But the real Raingutter grow system is a true SIP. It has a 3" net cup sunk down into the water. The buckets sits on top of the gutter.


Does it have an airgap


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## ttystikk (Jun 8, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Does it have an airgap


Yes. Only the netcup sits in the water. The rest of the bucket is above.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Yes. Only the netcup sits in the water. The rest of the bucket is above.


the bucke has no holes on the bottom,, like a true sip,, so its just dirt sitting in water,, kinda like your experament,, you wont get hydroponic type growth,, its just bottom watered, thats very differant


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## Tim Fox (Jun 8, 2017)

Therehas to be an understanding that a true sip provides oxygen to the roots through the air gap just setting a bucket in water or putting a net pot in the bottom and setting that in water is not a sip the air gap is what makes the magic happen that guy could just set up a drip on a res and get the same resultas his video but it's not hydroponics/soil hybrid like we do , and i don't get why this is so miss understood by so many


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## ttystikk (Jun 8, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Therehas to be an understanding that a true sip provides oxygen to the roots through the air gap just setting a bucket in water or putting a net pot in the bottom and setting that in water is not a sip the air gap is what makes the magic happen that guy could just set up a drip on a res and get the same resultas his video but it's not hydroponics/soil hybrid like we do , and i don't get why this is so miss understood by so many


Please explain the air gap? 

If the net cup is in the water and the bucket is above, how is that not SIPS?


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## Victor6634 (Jun 8, 2017)

I think he is talking about the gap in between water line and top of net cup


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## PDX Joe (Jun 8, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Therehas to be an understanding that a true sip provides oxygen to the roots through the air gap just setting a bucket in water or putting a net pot in the bottom and setting that in water is not a sip the air gap is what makes the magic happen that guy could just set up a drip on a res and get the same resultas his video but it's not hydroponics/soil hybrid like we do , and i don't get why this is so miss understood by so many


I think there might be an air gap in the design in this video and if not then it certainly could be added. But I suspect there is one. The photo Larry shows of his buckets in a plastic trough appears to be more like a hempy setup. There's sub-irrigation in both cases. But, I do agree using a wick and air gap leads to more appropriate moisture & oxygen levels.


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## ttystikk (Jun 8, 2017)

The rails and gutter system the buckets sit on make it clear there is space between the buckets and the water. @Tim Fox mentioned something about air holes in the soil container?


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## Tim Fox (Jun 8, 2017)

When i get home from work i can copy and paste the drawings from the files section i thinkthe visual will help in this situation


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## Tim Fox (Jun 8, 2017)

Victor6634 said:


> I think he is talking about the gap in between water line and top of net cup


In this case the air gap is separate from the net cup the gap is between the bottom of the bucket and the water level there has to be holes in the bottrm of the bucket ( not the net cup) and the air gets to bthe soil and roots via this gap, also roots cross over the gap and go in to the res forming water roots in the gutter system the bucket over hangs the gutterand just hangs in space without these hole and without the air gap there is no hydroponics type growth but just a regular container gardning but if thTs what a person wants the that's good but i like the explosion growth of air gap sips


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## ttystikk (Jun 8, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> In this case the air gap is separate from the net cup the gap is between the bottom of the bucket and the water level there has to be holes in the bottrm of the bucket ( not the net cup) and the air gets to bthe soil and roots via this gap, also roots cross over the gap and go in to the res forming water roots in the gutter system the bucket over hangs the gutterand just hangs in space without these hole and without the air gap there is no hydroponics type growth but just a regular container gardning but if thTs what a person wants the that's good but i like the explosion growth of air gap sips


Definitely need pics then.


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## greg nr (Jun 8, 2017)

You could probably create holes in the bottom of the 5 gallon bucket and cover them with landscape cloth, then add dirt. That would create an air/dirt interface. The netpot would still provide the wicking.


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## Humanrob (Jun 8, 2017)

Several of the pre-fab SIPs use something like a grate along the bottom (from what I've seen in pictures, I've never owned one), and in the early DIY SIPs I built I mimicked this by drilling holes in the bottom of the container that held the soil. It seems like the air gap/wick combination separates hempy from SIP, but I was not aware that the holes between the soil and the res was a defining factor in calling something a Sub-Irrigated Planter. 

My first SIPs had those holes, but subsequent ones were patterned more after the Octopot, which I am not aware of as having similar holes (and I believe is considered a SIP?). In my current SIPs which use a fabric pot sitting on a plastic bin/res, there are no holes beyond the large one that houses the wick. I do maintain an inch gap between the top of the res and the water line, and I also use air stones in my res. It's possible that my air stones serve the same function as the holes would, but I think I'm hearing that other designs that don't have the holes also work?

The bottom line is that I consider my current design to be a "SIP", but maybe I'm misusing the term. Perhaps at least for the purposes of accuracy in our conversations, we should structure a definition of SIPs -- even if that ends out being a loose definition.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 8, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> the bucke has no holes on the bottom,, like a true sip,, so its just dirt sitting in water,, kinda like your experament,, you wont get hydroponic type growth,, its just bottom watered, thats very differant


I'm going to have to go on a limb here Tim and say that this is why they stress the potting soil in the net cup for the wick as it is more aerated. Anyhow I am going to try and incorporate something similar into my indoor grow. The air gap is there it's just open to the environment, adding holes to the bottom of the buckets would be an easy to do thing and most of us using buckets for SIP's already have them. My only concern would be is there enough space in that trench for the roots.............

The hamster is on the wheel we will see how I make it work as a true SIP but using a variation of the design. I want to be able to hook up a float valve and a gravity fed res so I do not have to water as often............maybe I will just stick to my original idea of adding a third bucket as a spacer to increase res size and keep watering each bucket who knows but it would be nice to have a res feeding in for sure............


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## PDX Joe (Jun 8, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> I'm going to have to go on a limb here Tim and say that this is why they stress the potting soil in the net cup for the wick as it is more aerated. Anyhow I am going to try and incorporate something similar into my indoor grow. The air gap is there it's just open to the environment, adding holes to the bottom of the buckets would be an easy to do thing and most of us using buckets for SIP's already have them. My only concern would be is there enough space in that trench for the roots.............
> 
> The hamster is on the wheel we will see how I make it work as a true SIP but using a variation of the design. I want to be able to hook up a float valve and a gravity fed res so I do not have to water as often............maybe I will just stick to my original idea of adding a third bucket as a spacer to increase res size and keep watering each bucket who knows but it would be nice to have a res feeding in for sure............


Good point, although the main water roots usually concentrate their growth around or at the wick. The other roots that grow through the bucket holes would air prune themselves possibly. Essentially the plant finds the water and grows the roots where the water is.


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## sandhill larry (Jun 8, 2017)

Looking at some other RGGS videos, many folks drill holes in the buckets, then line them with landscape fabric. That gives you the advantages of air pruning. The holes were in the sides of the buckets though, not the bottom.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 8, 2017)

This happens in everyone of my sip grows with the air gap , the roots grow long and Jump the air gap and grow down into the res forming water roots Not thru the wick ( although that also happens) so if there was any truth to air pruning this would not happen but picturesand my eyes don't lie , there has to be holes in the floor and the floor has to be over the res for this to work


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## Tim Fox (Jun 8, 2017)

[QUOTE="sandhill larry, post: 13584135, member: 9469ourselvesout ng at some other RGGS videos, many folks drill holes in the buckets, then line them with landscape fabric. That gives you the advantages of air pruning. The holes were in the sides of the buckets though, not the bottom.[/QUOTE]
If we line the floor with landscape fabric we cheat ourselves out of the hydroponics action and you end up with just a self wateringplanter and that is only half of what we can do with these


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## Tim Fox (Jun 8, 2017)

Air gap and holes in floor


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## T-Time (Jun 8, 2017)

hello to everyone 
Just finished reading the whole thread. Loads of great info.
I think I will give it a go on my next round with that rain gutter. I have already AirPots, which should be ideal for this application as they have plenty of holes in bottom part and it has adjustable height.

Not sure about the nutes/soil yet as I had great success with Bio-Bizz range and not really keen on cooking my own soil, so I think I'll go with nutes to the rez in RDWC style for the first run. I'll have to go recilculating anyways as I'll be running two gutters, one above the other.

What do You guys think? Will it work ?


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## Tim Fox (Jun 8, 2017)

In this picture you can see the wick on the leftand the right, but notice all the roots that were not air pruned and jumped the gap and into the res this provides hempy bucket type growth becausethe roots not only get fresh air from the gap but now are also hydroponics roots so it's the best of soil and hydroponics in one we deny ourselves this benefit if we don't drill holes in the floor or if we just set a bucketin water or if we try and stop the roots with burlap or root block fabric


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## sandhill larry (Jun 8, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Air gap and holes in floorView attachment 3957370View attachment 3957372


I'm not saying the RGGS is as good or better than SIP, just that it is an easy way to grow, and some of you might be interested in it. I don't let a possible great keep me from enjoying good. Right now I catch rainwater with tarps, then carry it in five gallon buckets to my patches.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 8, 2017)

sandhill larry said:


> I'm not saying the RGGS is as good or better than SIP, just that it is an easy way to grow, and some of you might be interested in it. I don't let a possible great keep me from enjoying good. Right now I catch rainwater with tarps, then carry it in five gallon buckets to my patches.


Plenty of info about ways to automatically water gardens and they are all fun , but what make octopot, Hempybucket, grow box and earth box and. The homemade sips from others work like hydro is the res under gap with roots having accessto the res , some even go so far as to ad air stones , I wanted to post those pictures to show others what really goes on underneath


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## ttystikk (Jun 8, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Plenty of info about ways to automatically water gardens and they are all fun , but what make octopot, Hempybucket, grow box and earth box and. The homemade sips from others work like hydro is the res under gap with roots having accessto the res , some even go so far as to ad air stones , I wanted to post those pictures to show others what really goes on underneath


The pics were very helpful.

Root pruning happens if the roots grow out of a container into the open, finding light and dry air. That's not the case inside the container so they drop through the holes and hit the water.

You're suggesting I drill holes in my tubs. Currently the only hole fits the netpot wick.

Easy enough to do.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The pics were very helpful.
> 
> Sir pruning happens if the roots for out of a container into the open, finding light and dry air. That's not the case inside the container so they drop through the holes and hit the water.
> 
> ...


so, when the roots pass thru the holes under the soil ( not the wick),, are the roots not in the open?,, people say that roots "air prune" inside of a cloth grow bag, but yet the roots never were exposed to the oustide? inside the sip as the roots pass thru the bottom plate under the soil the roots are exposed to air and lots of it, the roots then have to then pass thru 1" of air space Before they hit the res water level,
So by your definition the roots should have air pruned,, but they dont,, like in the photos above

i have never seen your tubs,, so i cant really comment on what you have going on,,


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## Humanrob (Jun 8, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> ...we deny ourselves this benefit if we don't drill holes in the floor...


For one of my grows last winter I made two kinds of sips, a pair with 3 gallon bins over 3 gallon bins (those had holes), and a pair with 3 gallon fabric pots over 3 gallon bins (no holes other than the wick). Both produced water roots equally well. The last pic is of my current grow, which is a fabric pot over the res, no holes in the bottom, lots of roots in the water... just sayin'...

    

It is possible that the additional holes create additional opportunities for the plant to drop roots through, but mine have rooted through the wick. It's also possible that this only works with air stones -- I've always used them so I have no point of comparison without them. Actually, now that I think about it, in my first SIP grow I had the holes all over the bottom, and and the ONLY water roots I had were growing in a column above where the air stone was, which happened to be where the fill tube was (all the roots grew through the crack around the tube, not the wick or the holes per se). Anyway, that's why I've used air stones ever since.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 8, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> no holes in the bottom, lots of roots in the water... just sayin'


well crap,, i lost that one,, @ttystikk you win


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## ttystikk (Jun 8, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> so, when the roots pass thru the holes under the soil ( not the wick),, are the roots not in the open?,, people say that roots "air prune" inside of a cloth grow bag, but yet the roots never were exposed to the oustide? inside the sip as the roots pass thru the bottom plate under the soil the roots are exposed to air and lots of it, the roots then have to then pass thru 1" of air space Before they hit the res water level,
> So by your definition the roots should have air pruned,, but they dont,, like in the photos above
> 
> i have never seen your tubs,, so i cant really comment on what you have going on,,


Those roots are still inside the larger container which has water in it. The air space the roots encounter is therefore dark and humid, so no root pruning happens.


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## sandhill larry (Jun 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Those roots are still inside the larger container which has water in it. The air space the roots encounter is therefore dark and humid, so no root pruning happens.


Maybe we should say dry air pruning. Or sun pruning.


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## ttystikk (Jun 8, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> well crap,, i lost that one,, @ttystikk you win


This isn't a competition! Clearly, you plants are winning so you are certainly no loser, lol

I've had great luck with pumping water through a nozzle above the waterline and then recirculating it back through a control bucket with a pump in it. RDWC with no air pump at all.

I'm going to try something similar with SIPS, in the hope that sufficient water flow, churning action and oxygenation will accomplish the same result with less effort in terms of cooling the water or needing airstones.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 8, 2017)

I tried air stones in the past in my 5 gallon sips and.really saw no difference compared to no stone I'm fine with my 5 gallon bucket setups for reasons previously mentioned myself just looking to not have to water as often.

@Humanrob your containers with the fabric pots basically looks like an octo pot setup and I have considered this as well because I have a few pots lying around just not sure what benefit if any it would provide over the current setup which is why I hadn't ordered an octo pot yet to begin with .......

Lots of ways to skin a cat and it's nice to be able to bounce ideas off of folks like we are here.

My main thing is just to be able to incorporate and gravity fed res to the bucket or other style sip if I could soon to not have to water as often.

That's why the design with the rain gutter appealed to me. I was thinking I could setup two smaller rows of gutters with bracing between them to shape an I if you will and them I could freely run one or two buckets per gutter depending on what I was doing with the grow. I'm also doing a scrog for the first time this grow and really liking it so far so it would be nice not to have to get under the canopy to access the fill tubes and instead just mess with a res outside the tent feeding my system with water.........


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## PDX Joe (Jun 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The pics were very helpful.
> 
> Root pruning happens if the roots grow out of a container into the open, finding light and dry air. That's not the case inside the container so they drop through the holes and hit the water.
> 
> ...


Yeah, drill the holes. It won't hurt and I do think it helps.


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## PDX Joe (Jun 8, 2017)

Here's the ultimate SIP. Check out those roots. It's a cenote in the Yucatán. I've actually snorkeled in this cave. If roots can jump that air gap, then...


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 8, 2017)

WOW!!


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## PDX Joe (Jun 8, 2017)

T-Time said:


> hello to everyone
> Just finished reading the whole thread. Loads of great info.
> I think I will give it a go on my next round with that rain gutter. I have already AirPots, which should be ideal for this application as they have plenty of holes in bottom part and it has adjustable height.
> 
> ...


I don't cook my soil. I just add dry organic nutes and compost to the top of the soil. In the past I have supplemented with liquid nutrients in the reservoir. But, I'm moving away from this practice. I do add microbes to help break down the fertilizer for the plants.


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## T-Time (Jun 9, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I don't cook my soil. I just add dry organic nutes and compost to the top of the soil. In the past I have supplemented with liquid nutrients in the reservoir. But, I'm moving away from this practice. I do add microbes to help break down the fertilizer for the plants.


I'm still hesitate what to do with the nutes. I would rather stay with what I know wokrs best (obviously) but on the other hand like to experiment a lot in my zen garden 

I've seen photos of Your plants and they seem healthy. Any chance You could share Your mix ? I prabobly missed that.
Are You adding anything mid run ?


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## ttystikk (Jun 9, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Here's the ultimate SIP. Check out those roots. It's a cenote in the Yucatán. I've actually snorkeled in this cave. If roots can jump that air gap, then...
> 
> 
> View attachment 3957678


That's fucking cool!

It's also dark and moist in that cave.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 9, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> My main thing is just to be able to incorporate and gravity fed res to the bucket or other style sip if I could soon to not have to water as often.


Evil I like this set up for multiple sips with a single res,, all gravity fed,, uses cheap easy to get plastic tubing parts from home depot, the float valve is like 15 bucks on amazon, and uses a control bucket, to set water height,, 
you can use the 5 gallon buckets,, drill holes, use the round rubber groumets i think you have worked with tubing like this in your hydro days?


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## Tim Fox (Jun 9, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> This isn't a competition! Clearly, you plants are winning so you are certainly no loser, lol


sorry i was having a bad day and stress was leaking out of me,, good thing i dont drink anymore of all hell would have broke loose,, me and the bong went to bed early yesterday


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## PDX Joe (Jun 9, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Evil I like this set up for multiple sips with a single res,, all gravity fed,, uses cheap easy to get plastic tubing parts from home depot, the float valve is like 15 bucks on amazon, and uses a control bucket, to set water height,,
> you can use the 5 gallon buckets,, drill holes, use the round rubber groumets i think you have worked with tubing like this in your hydro days?View attachment 3957789 View attachment 3957790


Ooh, that's the type of float valve container I was wondering existed. If I decide to build larger SIPs for my closet then I will use that valve container so I can still use my remote reservoir. Cool, thanks for this info! Who is the maker or do you have a link to Amazon?


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## PDX Joe (Jun 9, 2017)

T-Time said:


> I'm still hesitate what to do with the nutes. I would rather stay with what I know wokrs best (obviously) but on the other hand like to experiment a lot in my zen garden
> 
> I've seen photos of Your plants and they seem healthy. Any chance You could share Your mix ? I prabobly missed that.
> Are You adding anything mid run ?


Yes, I have a grow journal for this grow you can check out. It has all the info and yes I amend a couple times through the grow.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 9, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Ooh, that's the type of float valve container I was wondering existed. If I decide to build larger SIPs for my closet then I will use that valve container so I can still use my remote reservoir. Cool, thanks for this info! Who is the maker or do you have a link to Amazon?


https://www.octopot.com/products/
https://www.amazon.com/Kerick-Valve-MA052-Float-Adjustable/dp/B0077RAP1I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497022289&sr=8-1&keywords=small+float+valve


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## Tim Fox (Jun 9, 2017)

i suppose if you purchased the float valve, you could just use plastic water connections in drip irragation at home depot, and then just get a plastic container to a size you like for the float valve,,, just has to be barely big enough for the valve as a control bucket


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 9, 2017)

I'm going to have to buy an octo pot and test it out lol .............been going back and forth between them and the auto pots though............


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## Tim Fox (Jun 9, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> I'm going to have to buy an octo pot and test it out lol .............been going back and forth between them and the auto pots though............


from everything i have seen, i would say they are the best commercially made sip,, especially for what we do, the sips rob and someguy and hyroot build at the same, but time effort and labor go into them to save some money,, I do really like the float indicator on the octopot,


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## Humanrob (Jun 9, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> from everything i have seen, i would say they are the best commercially made sip,, especially for what we do, the sips rob and someguy and hyroot build at the same, but time effort and labor go into them to save some money,, I do really like the float indicator on the octopot,


Yeah, time and money. I've been experimenting so much that I've rarely used the same SIP twice (this summer I have tomatoes growing in my first pair, and one from last year has an auto growing it, the rest are just sitting around). While DIY is a great way to learn, there are definite advantages to using materials they way they were designed and intended to be used. The commercial manufacturers do the R&D (if its a good design) and make it durable and easy to breakdown/clean/set back up again (for instance). 

From what I've seen on the manufacturers websites, one nice thing about the Octopot is that it appears to be designed to be used indoors and seemed to have the cannabis market in mind in terms of component expandability. Many of the other Earthbox type designs are always depicted outside, where overflow is not as big an issue, and they are not thinking about modular expansion and/or connecting them to each other.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 9, 2017)

The auto pots seems to be better suited for coco and hydro nutes while the octopot seems to be better suited for those using soil................maybe I am just seeing it wrong.............

The autopot XL looks appealing to me too though.........
http://autopot-usa.com/products/1pot-xl/product/57-1pot-xl-system-using-6mm-pipe


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## Tim Fox (Jun 9, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Yeah, time and money. I've been experimenting so much that I've rarely used the same SIP twice (this summer I have tomatoes growing in my first pair, and one from last year has an auto growing it, the rest are just sitting around). While DIY is a great way to learn, there are definite advantages to using materials they way they were designed and intended to be used. The commercial manufacturers do the R&D (if its a good design) and make it durable and easy to breakdown/clean/set back up again (for instance).
> 
> From what I've seen on the manufacturers websites, one nice thing about the Octopot is that it appears to be designed to be used indoors and seemed to have the cannabis market in mind in terms of component expandability. Many of the other Earthbox type designs are always depicted outside, where overflow is not as big an issue, and they are not thinking about modular expansion and/or connecting them to each other.


agree,,, the overflow on the earthbox was my prime complaint on my last indoor,, i thought i had it figured out, but water travels underneat things as it clings,, GRRRRR,,, hahaha,, the new sip i can see the level and ad as neccasary, big improvment, kinda like the flaps on your lids Rob, makes knowing whats going on so nice,,, I love the huge res on the octopot,, and your DIY sips, your cloth sips could do the single gravity res pretty easy,


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## Tim Fox (Jun 9, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> The auto pots seems to be better suited for coco and hydro nutes while the octopot seems to be better suited for those using soil................maybe I am just seeing it wrong.............
> 
> The autopot XL looks appealing to me too though.........
> http://autopot-usa.com/products/1pot-xl/product/57-1pot-xl-system-using-6mm-pipe


i think @PDX Joe could give good insight to this as he has been converting things around


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## PDX Joe (Jun 9, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> The auto pots seems to be better suited for coco and hydro nutes while the octopot seems to be better suited for those using soil................maybe I am just seeing it wrong.............
> 
> The autopot XL looks appealing to me too though.........
> http://autopot-usa.com/products/1pot-xl/product/57-1pot-xl-system-using-6mm-pipe


The Octopot is more of a true "SIP" design with the wick and air gap. The nice thing about the Octopot is you won't need to modify it. But get the 6 gallon pots if you want to use organic nutrients in the soil. The Autopot is more of a hempy design. So, in order for the Autopot to function more like SIP and less like hydro you do need to modify it. I did not like the Autopot with synthetic nutrients. The salts built up way too much over time and I was feeding very light. I'm sure I could eventually get it to work, but I didn't feel like ruining multiple crops trying to figure it out. So, I made the mods and use organic nutes in the soil.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 9, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> The Octopot is more of a true "SIP" design with the wick and air gap. The nice thing about the Octopot is you won't need to modify it. But get the 6 gallon pots if you want to use organic nutrients in the soil. The Autopot is more of a hempy design. So, in order for the Autopot to function more like SIP and less like hydro you do need to modify it. I did not like the Autopot with synthetic nutrients. The salts built up way too much over time and I was feeding very light. I'm sure I could eventually get it to work, but I didn't feel like ruining multiple crops trying to figure it out. So, I made the mods and use organic nutes in the soil.


Perfect I'm going to order a 6 gallon octopot today then to try out. Then I have one on hand to observe as well and might be able to come up with a DIY setup. I'm gonna have to search for your thread to look through it as well. Appreciate the input.


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## Humanrob (Jun 9, 2017)

My indoor is in the stretch, a few days shy of 2 weeks @12/12. I have a few inches of room left to raise the lights, we'll see if that will be enough. I've been keeping the lights at about 16" over the canopy. As a side note, I added a bunch of cal-mag to the water that I used to drench the soil with when I transplanted them into the SIPs, but have not added any since (previous runs I've added it to the res), and I've had no cal-mag issues so far. 

It's only a hypothesis, but I think it might have to do with keeping the lights higher than most COB growers do (it seems 12" is more common), and running this at a relatively low 36w/sf. I think that cal-mag issues with COBs may be influenced by how hard/intense we drive the lights. But I have no definitive proof, could just be this particular strain is happy with what I'm doing and another might not be. 

One of my SIPs is showing a LOT more water roots than the other, but that might be partially from a fk-up on my part -- last time I filled the res's there was a bunch of pressure in the hose when I turned it on, and I may have blown the roots off or to the back of the res... ya, won't let that happen again. So far both plants look equally healthy, so that's all that matters. 

   

I am having fun putting the corner of my phone into the res access opening and taking a blind pic. It seems to be hit or miss on focus and lighting, but I've gotten lucky on a few of them.


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## frankslan (Jun 13, 2017)

thinking about putting tm-7 in my res is this okay to do? Its just micro nutes.


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## buddss (Jun 14, 2017)

Hey Guys

Best Thread DAYUM!
no serious, very informative.

I actually planned indoor wicking beds as well. but im not really sure which medium(s) i should use. in my thread here:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/soil-wicking-bed-which-nutes.941974/
someone pointed me to this super thread here. another person said there is maybe the risk of mold etc.

My layers are like this (is actually in the test in my garden with tomato plant):

7-8inch - SOIL (like 20% perlite)
~1inch - SOIL & Hydroton together .
Root Fabric which covers the drainpipe as well
~3-4inch - Hydroton (as spacer and wicking material)

im a little bit uncertain if this works indoors with babies. the tomato looks pretty good for now (is in test since the last weekend). and we have like 28° C (82 F) the last days!


pretty happy about every tip!
cheers!


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## Humanrob (Jun 14, 2017)

Since this is a learning thread, I want to update something. Someone asked before if we cover our SIPs, and I think my answer was 'only if I'm having gnat problems'. Well, I've found another reason to cover them.

I'm having high RH issues, it's been around 70% for most of the grow. If summer ever gets here and is anywhere near normal for Oregon, everything will dry out and this issue will disappear. But in the mean time, to try and avoid PM I've got a ton of air movement going on in there, and I have one of my intakes connected to a dehumidifier (and with all that and the room being @55%, the humidity is still high in the tent). I poked my finger into the edge of the soil, usually around 2" down I'll feel moisture -- this time I sunk my whole finger in and it was bone dry. So, I think the combination of air movement and dry air coming in is over-drying my fabric pots and all that moisture is going into the air.

Beating PM is all about not letting it start. So, as an additional precaution, this morning I cut up some 'tall kitchen' garbage bags and covered the pots and the top of the soil. Before doing that I took the opportunity to top water, and added a bunch of tea and some cal-mag. The canopy is way too thick, I just did another trim of small branches. Canopy density lends itself to PM, but with all the other precautions I've taken (including spraying GreenCure), removing bud sites will only happen if PM actually shows up. Summer here usually comes like someone flipped a switch, and then we have 3 months basically without rain. Looks like that is happening on Saturday so hopefully after that everything will even out.

These are a 10 week/flower strain, but it might be a short grow if they don't stop stretching. I can take out the final links above the lights and zip-tie them directly to the top bars of the tent, but that couple of inches is all I have left to raise them. After that I can super crop the tallest branches, and hope that is enough. Whatever will be, will be.


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## PDX Joe (Jun 14, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Since this is a learning thread, I want to update something. Someone asked before if we cover our SIPs, and I think my answer was 'only if I'm having gnat problems'. Well, I've found another reason to cover them.
> 
> I'm having high RH issues, it's been around 70% for most of the grow. If summer ever gets here and is anywhere near normal for Oregon, everything will dry out and this issue will disappear. But in the mean time, to try and avoid PM I've got a ton of air movement going on in there, and I have one of my intakes connected to a dehumidifier (and with all that and the room being @55%, the humidity is still high in the tent). I poked my finger into the edge of the soil, usually around 2" down I'll feel moisture -- this time I sunk my whole finger in and it was bone dry. So, I think the combination of air movement and dry air coming in is over-drying my fabric pots and all that moisture is going into the air.
> 
> ...


Please, please, please let summer arrive already in Oregon! 

Anyway, I noticed this too with having my pots indoors uncovered. It appeared a lot of moisture was evaporating from the top of the pots. The top of the soil would get too dry and the reservoir would deplete quickly. But, with the plastic on top the water was definitely used more efficiently.


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## PDX Joe (Jun 14, 2017)

Speaking of plastic covers... check out the mycelium mat I was able to grow using bokashi under the plastic sheet.


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## paraordnance (Jun 15, 2017)

I have a question to the experts in regards to SIP and water roots growing in the water holding reservoir.

Organic, no-till soil, no nutes, nothing just plain not ph water, as is from tap (around 8 ph). I add about 2.5 gal of water once per week and that is all they get. 45 days in veg so far. 

I use 10 gal smart fabric pots which sit on top of Rubbermaid tote filled with perforated drain pipe snaked at the bottom of the tote and perlite on top. The corrugated plastic pipe (same one used for drainage around foundations) is there to increase volume of the water available and reduce amount of perlite needed. So far it worked stellar as my plants exploded with healthy growth and no deficiencies showing. 

I just looked inside of the corrugated pipe and one of the reservoirs has a chunk of roots growing there. They look white and healthy but for how long? I'm just about to flip the switch as 2 plants almost completely filled 2x4 tent with beautifully smelling og kush from Doc. 

I know in dwc you have to periodically empty and clean reservoir in order to avoid root rot. I can't move plants as they under scrog net. Harvest is about 70 days from now. Will my roots stay healthy there inside of the pipe or should I reach inside with my hand and pull them out?


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## Humanrob (Jun 15, 2017)

I feel like you did a decent job of describing your system... and yet I can't seem to picture it. Do you have any pictures of it that you can post?

It sounds like you have a rubbermaid bin for the res, and a fabric pot sitting on top of it... so I'm guessing you have a wick connecting the two? If that's the case, I don't understand why you snaked a pipe in the res? There is another design (briefly) where people put drain pipe in the bottom of a tote to trap water, then put down some weed barrier or other fabric, and then put soil on top of that -- but that all happens in the tote without the fabric pot (which you've mentioned). So... like I said, I can't make any suggestions because I can't picture what you're working with.



paraordnance said:


> I have a question to the experts in regards to SIP and water roots growing in the water holding reservoir.
> 
> Organic, no-till soil, no nutes, nothing just plain not ph water, as is from tap (around 8 ph). I add about 2.5 gal of water once per week and that is all they get. 45 days in veg so far.
> 
> ...


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## paraordnance (Jun 15, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I feel like you did a decent job of describing your system... and yet I can't seem to picture it. Do you have any pictures of it that you can post?
> 
> It sounds like you have a rubbermaid bin for the res, and a fabric pot sitting on top of it... so I'm guessing you have a wick connecting the two? If that's the case, I don't understand why you snaked a pipe in the res? There is another design (briefly) where people put drain pipe in the bottom of a tote to trap water, then put down some weed barrier or other fabric, and then put soil on top of that -- but that all happens in the tote without the fabric pot (which you've mentioned). So... like I said, I can't make any suggestions because I can't picture what you're working with.


Not at home right now to snap picture but you got it right. The Rubbermaid Roughneck (10 gal) plastic tote is only 8" high as I'm limited to 5 feet from floor to ceiling. At the bottom of that tote I zigzagged 4" corrugated plastic drainage pipe and filled with perlite to the top of the bin. The pipe is completely under perlite, only two opposite ends of a pipe are sticking out so I can easily add water with funnel. Perlite does all the wicking to my fabric pots sitting on top. There is a weed blocker between pots and perlite.

One of the pipes wrapped in sock (look up Mole-pipe brand in google images) and the roots can't get inside because of the sock. The second plant grows in identical set up but no sock over the Mole-pipe and roots sneaked inside. They just sitting in plain water. Water is not stagnant as I top it up once a week.

But I'm worried they can start to rot in there in next 2 months. I can reach and rip the roots out but that will certainly hurt the plant as I will lose may be 10% of root mass (the rest of roots inside the fabric pots are in the soil)

I guess to clear it up, my roots grew somehow through fabric pot (Geo pot brand), through perlite, and ended up where I did not expected them - corrugated pipe at the very bottom of my set up


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## paraordnance (Jun 15, 2017)

I will take pictures once I get home


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## Photon Flinger (Jun 15, 2017)

Just let it dry out if you are worried, then water next when they are drooping as it should be a while.

When it is dry, the roots will grow out searching for water and prevent the rot. Since you are going into flower, you should only have to do it 2-3 times to avoid any issues.

Also, if you uses mykos and other benes, they will keep rot at bay. The stuff is like yogurt for us.


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## paraordnance (Jun 15, 2017)

Photon Flinger said:


> Just let it dry out if you are worried, then water next when they are drooping as it should be a while.
> 
> When it is dry, the roots will grow out searching for water and prevent the rot. Since you are going into flower, you should only have to do it 2-3 times to avoid any issues.
> 
> Also, if you uses mykos and other benes, they will keep rot at bay. The stuff is like yogurt for us.


Is this considered normal practice to dry up sip? Will it start wicking again as soon as I add water? And yes, I used mykos when transplanted so perhaps I should not worry much at all?


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## Humanrob (Jun 15, 2017)

paraordnance said:


> Not at home right now to snap picture but you got it right. The Rubbermaid Roughneck (10 gal) plastic tote is only 8" high as I'm limited to 5 feet from floor to ceiling. At the bottom of that tote I zigzagged 4" corrugated plastic drainage pipe and filled with perlite to the top of the bin. The pipe is completely under perlite, only two opposite ends of a pipe are sticking out so I can easily add water with funnel. Perlite does all the wicking to my fabric pots sitting on top. There is a weed blocker between pots and perlite.
> 
> One of the pipes wrapped in sock (look up Mole-pipe brand in google images) and the roots can't get inside because of the sock. The second plant grows in identical set up but no sock over the Mole-pipe and roots sneaked inside. They just sitting in plain water. Water is not stagnant as I top it up once a week.
> 
> ...


Thanks for clarifying. That setup sounds like there is no "air gap" between the water and the soil, so its more in line with "hempy bucket" growing. If that's the case I'm not familiar with those, but others might have some suggestions.


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## Photon Flinger (Jun 15, 2017)

paraordnance said:


> Is this considered normal practice to dry up sip? Will it start wicking again as soon as I add water? And yes, I used mykos when transplanted so perhaps I should not worry much at all?



Mine do. Especially if you got a mykos colony. If you do have a good colony, yeah don't worry.


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## PDX Joe (Jun 15, 2017)

The SIP plants got the chop on Tuesday. Harvest complete! I think next time I'll try four plants, less colas, shorter veg and no SCROG.


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## Humanrob (Jun 16, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> The SIP plants got the chop on Tuesday. Harvest complete! I think next time I'll try four plants, less colas, shorter veg and no SCROG. View attachment 3961790


I go back and forth on scrogs (and SIPs for that matter). I used one for my very first grow several years ago, after reading about techniques to increase yield and being fixated on maximizing output. I'm at the point now where it's not difficult to grow enough to meet our needs, and I'm looking for simpler ways to grow. The bottom line is that I'm headed in a similar direction, at least in my 3x3 tent. The scrog I have going in there now is the first and last I'll do in that tent. The access is just too limited.

In the 2x4 the reach to the back is significantly easier, and the tent is taller. I will probably continue to use a net in that tent to spread out and support the branches -- but I probably won't do any more intense scrog training where I'm flattening out the plant. The 2x4 is a good platform to grow two good sized plants side by side, so I can veg a little longer there. Once plants reach a certain size, branch support seems to become necessary. The 3x3 works well for 4 smaller plants, or even 9 small plants -- but to do that I need to be able to remove them to access the ones in the back, so scrogs/nets don't work for that at all.


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## PDX Joe (Jun 16, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I go back and forth on scrogs (and SIPs for that matter). I used one for my very first grow several years ago, after reading about techniques to increase yield and being fixated on maximizing output. I'm at the point now where it's not difficult to grow enough to meet our needs, and I'm looking for simpler ways to grow. The bottom line is that I'm headed in a similar direction, at least in my 3x3 tent. The scrog I have going in there now is the first and last I'll do in that tent. The access is just too limited.
> 
> In the 2x4 the reach to the back is significantly easier, and the tent is taller. I will probably continue to use a net in that tent to spread out and support the branches -- but I probably won't do any more intense scrog training where I'm flattening out the plant. The 2x4 is a good platform to grow two good sized plants side by side, so I can veg a little longer there. Once plants reach a certain size, branch support seems to become necessary. The 3x3 works well for 4 smaller plants, or even 9 small plants -- but to do that I need to be able to remove them to access the ones in the back, so scrogs/nets don't work for that at all.


Yeah, I can see how a rectangular space like a 2x4 is optimum for SCROG. Like you said you can reach back and do plant maintenance easily and have all the plants side by side. I agree it seems like four smaller plants with the ability to move them and remove them from a 3x3 area is optimum. I noticed with my SCROG is I had lots of smaller bud tops, but below the tops the colas didn't bulk out very well because they were a bit crowded and didn't have optimum light. I think I would much rather have less colas but have the entire cola fully develop. Plus, similar to you, I don't need to maximize my harvest but I'm much more concerned with flower quality. I was concerned the plants would stretch too much for the height of my space, but I think having a short veg. would remedy this a bit and I did seem to have vertical space for additional stretch. The great thing about the Autopot is I can remove it from the reservoir tray, so I think this will encourage me to go with four pots in the 3x3.


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## Humanrob (Jun 16, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> I think I would much rather have less colas but have the entire cola fully develop.


I have lost track of how many grows I've done, but from my experience I've never gotten really big colas with SIPs... _but I've never grown in SIPs without a SCROG_, and plants in SIPs grow so fast that I've had to cut the veg times shorter pretty much every time because the screen fills too quickly. I think this contributes to the smaller buds, because every time I've gotten larger buds, I've vegged for a longer time. 

I've also never grown the same strain twice, and never grown in the exact same pot size, under the same lights, vegging for the same amount of time -- for more than one run. Which all destroys having any real points of comparison. It's more like I'm slowly amassing an accumulation of individual reference points that are starting to morph into a kind of intuition about what works and what doesn't. Which so far is sometimes accurate, and sometimes isn't, but I think it's getting a little better with each grow...


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## frankslan (Jun 16, 2017)

ya heres my first grow one plant took up 65 percent of the screen small buds too. Its my first times i should have trimmed more of the bottom stuff but its mostly bare below the screen.




Day 40 of 60 from flip


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## PDX Joe (Jun 17, 2017)

frankslan said:


> ya heres my first grow one plant took up 65 percent of the screen small buds too. Its my first times i should have trimmed more of the bottom stuff but its mostly bare below the screen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice. Yeah, that's about the size I'm getting. I'm looking forward to seeing how the quality is. If it turns out tasty then I'll be happy.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jun 19, 2017)

Outside veggies:


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## frankslan (Jun 20, 2017)

shit I cracked my sip containers trying to clean up from a foliar spray... I got too aggressive trying to get the towel under the pots. Also possible that the container just didnt hold up but I thought it was just from the sprays dripping and getting under the pots hard to say for sure. 

So The soil should be pretty moist how long do you think I can go without watering Im in 50 gal totes. My plan is to let them get dry give them like 4 days or so then just give them like a gal hopefully they suck it up really fast and not too much drips out. 

I only have a few more weeks to go on these plants. Im in a 4 by 4 full scrog I think they were drinking about a gal a day at least but Im sure the soil will stay moist a lot longer than that. Thats at peak saturation.

Of course I can water from the top but I have the tops completely sealed off and sticky foot layed down on top of it. I could pull the fill tube up and then jam it right into the middle of the soil or something. or just poke my sprayer in there and let it rip for a while. 

I can see some of the cracks but I bet there's more than the ones I can see.


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## PDX Joe (Jun 24, 2017)

Here is a look at the root balls from the modified Autopot SIP about a week after the chop. It's interesting to see the roots really didn't grow down into the reservoir past the air gap or really through the wick. But, the root mass in the soil is pretty robust throughout the entire pot. Before the modifications the roots all grew in a mass at the bottom of the pot.


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## ttystikk (Jun 24, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Here is a look at the root balls from the modified Autopot SIP about a week after the chop. It's interesting to see the roots really didn't grow down into the reservoir past the air gap or really through the wick. But, the root mass in the soil is pretty robust throughout the entire pot. Before the modifications the roots all grew in a mass at the bottom of the pot.View attachment 3966307


If the water wasn't aerated I'd expect to see these results. Aerated water gets more roots in it.


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## PDX Joe (Jun 24, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> If the water wasn't aerated I'd expect to see these results. Aerated water gets more roots in it.


Hmm, weird. I used a couple airstones in my large remote reservoir. Although there weren't any airstones at the bottom of the pot. Not sure if it means much but figured I'd share the observation.


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## ttystikk (Jun 24, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Hmm, weird. I used a couple airstones in my large remote reservoir. Although there weren't any airstones at the bottom of the pot. Not sure if it means much but figured I'd share the observation.


The aeration needs to be in the same reservoir as the plant, unless the water is continuously recirculated.


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## Rocket Soul (Jun 25, 2017)

Water roots: wouldnt it depend on the wicking material aswell? I did a sip for tomatos, no aeration thru bubbles only some holes in the res, but using hydroton for wick (not really absorbent) and i got water roots after very little time. Roots look for water,as long as it needs more?


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## Humanrob (Jul 1, 2017)

Some pics, I'm about 5 weeks into flower, so I have 4-5 weeks to go (I've read that Cannatonic can be a 10 week strain). It's wall-to-wall roots in the res's, and so far I'm happy with how the plants are doing. I hope this is my last summer indoor, in a non-climate controlled detached garage it's day to day adjustments to keep the temps within range and I'm not on target a lot of the time. Luckily the plants seem to be OK.


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## Humanrob (Jul 1, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> The aeration needs to be in the same reservoir as the plant, unless the water is continuously recirculated.





Rocket Soul said:


> Water roots: wouldnt it depend on the wicking material aswell? I did a sip for tomatos, no aeration thru bubbles only some holes in the res, but using hydroton for wick (not really absorbent) and i got water roots after very little time. Roots look for water,as long as it needs more?


It seems to work a lot of different ways, but some ways may work better than others. I've had good results with air stones, and so far the more air the better. 

I'm going for more aeration on this run than previous ones -- I have air pumps rated for 40 gallon fish tanks going through a foot long air stone in each of my 10 gallon res's. It's hit or miss with the pictures, but this one caught the water bubbling up. If a large quantity of water roots is a sign that the plant likes the environment, then I would say this is working.


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## PDX Joe (Jul 2, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Some pics, I'm about 4 weeks into flower, so I have 5-6 weeks to go (I've read that Cannatonic can be a 10 week strain). It's wall-to-wall roots in the res's, and so far I'm happy with how the plants are doing. I hope this is my last summer indoor, in a non-climate controlled detached garage it's day to day adjustments to keep the temps within range and I'm not on target a lot of the time. Luckily the plants seem to be OK.
> 
> View attachment 3970815 View attachment 3970812 View attachment 3970814 View attachment 3970810 View attachment 3970813 View attachment 3970811


They look nice and green and happy.


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## Humanrob (Jul 2, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> They look nice and green and happy.


Thanks, so far the system is working.


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## greg nr (Jul 2, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> It seems to work a lot of different ways, but some ways may work better than others. I've had good results with air stones, and so far the more air the better.
> 
> I'm going for more aeration on this run than previous ones -- I have air pumps rated for 40 gallon fish tanks going through a foot long air stone in each of my 10 gallon res's. It's hit or miss with the pictures, but this one caught the water bubbling up. If a large quantity of water roots is a sign that the plant likes the environment, then I would say this is working.
> 
> View attachment 3970816


Isn't that dwc at this point? You have so many roots living in the water, you have to aerate them.

I haven't looked at mine, but I'm curious if there are a lot of water roots. I let the res dry out before refilling it, so I'm hoping that works for oxy transfer. I have at least a 2 day buffer between a dry res and any plant drooping (haven't seen drooping in the time the res has been dry before).

So far, nothing anaerobic and no deficiencies. fingers crossed.


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## Humanrob (Jul 2, 2017)

greg nr said:


> Isn't that dwc at this point? You have so many roots living in the water, you have to aerate them.
> 
> I haven't looked at mine, but I'm curious if there are a lot of water roots. I let the res dry out before refilling it, so I'm hoping that works for oxy transfer. I have at least a 2 day buffer between a dry res and any plant drooping (haven't seen drooping in the time the res has been dry before).
> 
> So far, nothing anaerobic and no deficiencies. fingers crossed.


I've never done (or really researched) DWC so I have no reference there, but from what I've heard the difference is that I don't fertilize through the water, only the soil. I randomly checked my pH the other day and it was off the charts alkali in the res... but that doesn't seem to be hurting anything. If towards the end of the grow I see deficiencies, I have put some GH bloom in the water, but that opens a can of worms because apparently as soon as I do that the water pH becomes relevant.

I've never let my res dry out, but I've heard other people do. When there's only an inch of water left I refill.


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## Humanrob (Jul 8, 2017)

I definitely won't be using SIPs and a scrog in my 3x3 again. My arms are not long enough to reach the back of the tent. At this point in the grow (6 weeks into flower, 3-4 weeks remaining) the girls are stinky and sticky in that great way -- but they are flopping over leaving big holes in the canopy, while other parts are leaning heavily on each other. I had to tie a string across the front so that when I open the tent the ones up front don't fall out. This grow really needs a second screen, but since I can't reach the back there is no way I can weave one in mid-run. I'll probably end out doing a staggered harvest, where I take the main (top of the pile) buds first and then give the lower/crushed ones another week or two (or three?) to fatten up.


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## PDX Joe (Jul 8, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I definitely won't be using SIPs and a scrog in my 3x3 again. My arms are not long enough to reach the back of the tent. At this point in the grow (6 weeks into flower, 3-4 weeks remaining) the girls are stinky and sticky in that great way -- but they are flopping over leaving big holes in the canopy, while other parts are leaning heavily on each other. I had to tie a string across the front so that when I open the tent the ones up front don't fall out. This grow really needs a second screen, but since I can't reach the back there is no way I can weave one in mid-run. I'll probably end out doing a staggered harvest, where I take the main (top of the pile) buds first and then give the lower/crushed ones another week or two (or three?) to fatten up.
> 
> View attachment 3974557 View attachment 3974559 View attachment 3974558


Yeah, I had similar issues with trying to reach in and maintain my 3x3 SCROG. I can see if I went with four plants then I wouldn't be able to maintain them very well. I was thinking about coming up with a staking system or maybe a tomato cage system that latches on to the outside edge of the container but still have access for topping off the soil with nutrients. I need to think about that a bit more.


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## Jp.the.pope (Jul 8, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Yeah, I had similar issues with trying to reach in and maintain my 3x3 SCROG. I can see if I went with four plants then I wouldn't be able to maintain them very well. I was thinking about coming up with a staking system or maybe a tomato cage system that latches on to the outside edge of the container but still have access for topping off the soil with nutrients. I need to think about that a bit more.


Check out the newer pdf for the earthtainer. Has a great built in tomatoe cage system


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## Humanrob (Jul 8, 2017)

PDX Joe said:


> Yeah, I had similar issues with trying to reach in and maintain my 3x3 SCROG. I can see if I went with four plants then I wouldn't be able to maintain them very well. I was thinking about coming up with a staking system or maybe a tomato cage system that latches on to the outside edge of the container but still have access for topping off the soil with nutrients. I need to think about that a bit more.


I have used tomato cages with a piece of that green outdoor wire fencing attached horizontally to the top -- it created a cage and a support screen that was connected to the pot not the walls. Made it possible to remove plants as needed. It might be a bit awkward to try 4 like that in a 3x3, they'd probably crash into each other. But one in a 2x2 or two in a 2x4 works nicely.


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## PDX Joe (Jul 8, 2017)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Check out the newer pdf for the earthtainer. Has a great built in tomatoe cage system


Yeah, I have some of those for my outdoor SIPs. I was thinking about adapting that design a bit for my particular space and pots.


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## ttystikk (Jul 8, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I definitely won't be using SIPs and a scrog in my 3x3 again. My arms are not long enough to reach the back of the tent. At this point in the grow (6 weeks into flower, 3-4 weeks remaining) the girls are stinky and sticky in that great way -- but they are flopping over leaving big holes in the canopy, while other parts are leaning heavily on each other. I had to tie a string across the front so that when I open the tent the ones up front don't fall out. This grow really needs a second screen, but since I can't reach the back there is no way I can weave one in mid-run. I'll probably end out doing a staggered harvest, where I take the main (top of the pile) buds first and then give the lower/crushed ones another week or two (or three?) to fatten up.
> 
> View attachment 3974557 View attachment 3974559 View attachment 3974558


I'm sorry, but complaints like those won't gain you a bit of sympathy.


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## sandhill larry (Jul 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm sorry, but complaints like those won't gain you a bit of sympathy.


My buds are toooooo heavy.


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## Humanrob (Jul 8, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm sorry, but complaints like those won't gain you a bit of sympathy.


Not even some sympathy for my unusually short arms? 



sandhill larry said:


> My buds are toooooo heavy.


This does come back to my observation that my SIP runs seem to have thin weak branches. So my buds might be too heavy, or my branches might be too thin to hold them? I'm pretty sure there's a valid complaint in here somewhere! 

I think this winter I'm going to have to do a side-by-side -- same strain, one in a SIP, one just in a regular pot. See if that gives me any clarity.


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## Evil-Mobo (Jul 9, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Not even some sympathy for my unusually short arms?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let me know what you find as I am of the same opinion myself........


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## Humanrob (Jul 9, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Let me know what you find as I am of the same opinion myself........


A two plant comparison is far from conclusive, but that's all I have room for. I've been trying to push my grow style towards fewer larger colas, and I'm not sure if SIPs massive foliage growth lends itself to that. I will have to choose between trying to treat the two comparison plants the same and seeing what they do, or trying to do my best to optimize each grow medium to see which has more potential. I guess in the end since my primary goal is to see what works best for me, I'll grow them the way I grow, and see what the result is. Hopefully along the way there will be some info that is useful to others. Well... since we're talking next winter's indoor, those results will be... about seven months from now.


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## sandhill larry (Jul 9, 2017)

@Humanrob Maybe there is a trace mineral or something you could add to your soil or ferts to get stronger branches. Do you shake them, or use fans to keep them moving in veg? That is supposed to help with branch strength. Never grown indoors, so no experience with that sort of thing. My stem related losses were splits at the first topping site. This year I'm not topping anything. {although the bugs did top a few for me}


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## Humanrob (Jul 9, 2017)

sandhill larry said:


> @Humanrob Maybe there is a trace mineral or something you could add to your soil or ferts to get stronger branches. Do you shake them, or use fans to keep them moving in veg? That is supposed to help with branch strength. Never grown indoors, so no experience with that sort of thing. My stem related losses were splits at the first topping site. This year I'm not topping anything. {although the bugs did top a few for me}


I've thought about that. The SIPs I've been using have a large footprint and take up petty much the entire floor space of the tent. With standard fabric pots I would have a good sized fan on the floor blowing up into the lower canopy, and others blowing down into it from above to keep things moving and deter PM. The SIPs limit the room for fans on the floor, so that could be part of the issue. 

Also, growing through a scrog supports the plants in ways that I sometimes wonder if it causes them not to support themselves as much. Everything a plant does is on a "need basis" and if they are fully supported as they are growing, they might put less effort into thickening their branches since it would appear to be unnecessary. Then as the stretch comes on and the buds fatten, those branches turn out to be under-developed.


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## dubekoms (Jul 10, 2017)

Sounds like you could use some silica


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## Victor6634 (Jul 14, 2017)

Does anyone use supersoil in their sips?


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## greg nr (Jul 15, 2017)

Victor6634 said:


> Does anyone use supersoil in their sips?


I am. I made it with the build-a-soil kit. Roughly 3 parts peat to 4 parts each of compost and aerators, plus the minerals and additives in the kit.

Working great so far. I'm in week 7 and have only added some worm tea and a few amendments like sweet and mammoth p.

Plants look great.


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## Victor6634 (Jul 15, 2017)

greg nr said:


> I am. I made it with the build-a-soil kit. Roughly 3 parts peat to 4 parts each of compost and aerators, plus the minerals and additives in the kit.
> 
> Working great so far. I'm in week 7 and have only added some worm tea and a few amendments like sweet and mammoth p.
> 
> Plants look great.


Thank you Greg . I just got my build a soil nutrient and mineral kit and I'm waiting on aerators,peat and Malibu compost as well as 8 earth boxes to start my first dip grow. Did you let it cook or planted right in? Thanks again for the response


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## greg nr (Jul 15, 2017)

Victor6634 said:


> Thank you Greg . I just got my build a soil nutrient and mineral kit and I'm waiting on aerators,peat and Malibu compost as well as 8 earth boxes to start my first dip grow. Did you let it cook or planted right in? Thanks again for the response


I made it a little early, so it ended up resting for a few weeks before I used it. It never got hot though; at least not that I noticed.

Oh, and I'm loving the laid back nature of the sips containers. I just add water every 4 to 5 days and topdress every 10 or so. I don't have a shower cap on mine, but I could go several days longer with one I'd bet.


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## Victor6634 (Jul 15, 2017)

greg nr said:


> I made it a little early, so it ended up resting for a few weeks before I used it. It never got hot though; at least not that I noticed.
> 
> Oh, and I'm loving the laid back nature of the sips containers. I just add water every 4 to 5 days and topdress every 10 or so. I don't have a shower cap on mine, but I could go several days longer with one I'd bet.


I can't wait for the rest of my stuff to arrive been dying to try this out
What are you using to top dress I'm thinking of ordering build a soils craft blend for top dressing


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## greg nr (Jul 15, 2017)

Victor6634 said:


> I can't wait for the rest of my stuff to arrive been dying to try this out
> What are you using to top dress I'm thinking of ordering build a soils craft blend for top dressing


Ahh, sorry, I should have said top feed, not dress. I have a worm inn that has some very high quality ewc that I'll use if the plants need a kick towards the end. Otherwise I'll use it as a top layer on my next run. 

Top feeding isn't really accurate since I'm not adding npk. I just add the worm tea and some recharge/mammoth-p and some minor minerals like mag, sulpher, calcium, etc.

So far so good. I'm in week 7 of 10 so I don't expect to have to add the worm castings for some N. I'll just let it fade at this point.


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## Victor6634 (Jul 15, 2017)

greg nr said:


> Ahh, sorry, I should have said top feed, not dress. I have a worm inn that has some very high quality ewc that I'll use if the plants need a kick towards the end. Otherwise I'll use it as a top layer on my next run.
> 
> Top feeding isn't really accurate since I'm not adding npk. I just add the worm tea and some recharge/mammoth-p and some minor minerals like mag, sulpher, calcium, etc.
> 
> So far so good. I'm in week 7 of 10 so I don't expect to have to add the worm castings for some N. I'll just let it fade at this point.


Thank you


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## greg nr (Jul 15, 2017)

Here is a pick of a goji og bud in week 6,,,

https://www.rollitup.org/attachments/20170707_125922-jpg.3973964/


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## Victor6634 (Jul 15, 2017)

greg nr said:


> Here is a pick of a goji og bud in week 6,,,
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/attachments/20170707_125922-jpg.3973964/


That looks awesome


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## Tim Fox (Jul 17, 2017)

Victor6634 said:


> Thank you Greg . I just got my build a soil nutrient and mineral kit and I'm waiting on aerators,peat and Malibu compost as well as 8 earth boxes to start my first dip grow. Did you let it cook or planted right in? Thanks again for the response


Alright another earthbox grower


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## Tim Fox (Jul 17, 2017)

Victor6634 said:


> Does anyone use supersoil in their sips?


Right now I am using ffof with organic dry nutes mixed in


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## Victor6634 (Jul 17, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Alright another earthbox grower


Just got my tracking number they will be here Wednesday rest my stuff will be here end of week can't wait to try them if they half as good for me as they do for you I would be happy. Thanks Tim


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## Tim Fox (Jul 17, 2017)

Victor6634 said:


> Just got my tracking number they will be here Wednesday rest my stuff will be here end of week can't wait to try them if they half as good for me as they do for you I would be happy. Thanks Tim


They work fantastic , if you use it indoors space it up and slide a pan under to catch therun off


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## Dynamo626 (Jul 21, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I definitely won't be using SIPs and a scrog in my 3x3 again. My arms are not long enough to reach the back of the tent. At this point in the grow (6 weeks into flower, 3-4 weeks remaining) the girls are stinky and sticky in that great way -- but they are flopping over leaving big holes in the canopy, while other parts are leaning heavily on each other. I had to tie a string across the front so that when I open the tent the ones up front don't fall out. This grow really needs a second screen, but since I can't reach the back there is no way I can weave one in mid-run. I'll probably end out doing a staggered harvest, where I take the main (top of the pile) buds first and then give the lower/crushed ones another week or two (or three?) to fatten up.
> 
> View attachment 3974557 View attachment 3974559 View attachment 3974558


Try building a 3x3 frame stretch your trellis and suspend it from rope rachets. Lower it down half way through flower to abought a foot over the scrog trellis this will add all the support you need.


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## Dynamo626 (Jul 21, 2017)

Wow long thred lol ill be honest only read the first 5 and last 2 pages. Anoune using this method under 1000w lights in ffof?


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## pop22 (Jul 23, 2017)

yep

 



Victor6634 said:


> Does anyone use supersoil in their sips?


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## pop22 (Jul 23, 2017)

Thats one plant in a 20m gallon sip


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## Victor6634 (Jul 23, 2017)

pop22 said:


> yep
> 
> View attachment 3982988


Looks great pop22


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## Dynamo626 (Jul 23, 2017)

Hmmm no one under 1000 watters?


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## Rocket Soul (Jul 24, 2017)

Ok, so its finally time for me to do some SIPs with ganja  Hoping this outdoor run will be a trial for running same sips indoor. I wanted to make them quite flexible, the res is small so i figure i can do the occasional top watering with nutes and then easily pour out the run off and reapply with just water in the res.

The pots are about 14'' a side on the top and have like small leggs they stand on, these will act like the wicks, so 4 in total. As wicking medium i chose hydroton (i believe is the english name, here in spain its called arlita). It was what worked best for wick last years non canna-sips. Tried doing a tomato sip with these pots a few weeks ago and had problem with overwicking, so now i will add much more hydroton. Will also be carefull when filling the sip the first time so it dont drown my babies.

The question i have is what medium would people recomend on top of the hydroton? How much aeriation? Will have some passive nutes in the mix and also EWC, about 25-35% but i dont have access nor time to do anything like super soil. I was thinking something like around a 1/3 each of soil, ewc and aireation but i could go for coco instead of soil.

Last pic is of the seedlings getting used to the sun: Fruitpunch Autos, flowering in 80 days according to supplier.

Any advice is very welcome
   



Anyone no anything about biobizz premix for this?


----------



## Humanrob (Jul 24, 2017)

Rocket Soul said:


> Ok, so its finally time for me to do some SIPs with ganja  Hoping this outdoor run will be a trial for running same sips indoor. I wanted to make them quite flexible, the res is small so i figure i can do the occasional top watering with nutes and then easily pour out the run off and reapply with just water in the res.
> 
> The pots are about 14'' a side on the top and have like small leggs they stand on, these will act like the wicks, so 4 in total. As wicking medium i chose hydroton (i believe is the english name, here in spain its called arlita). It was what worked best for wick last years non canna-sips. Tried doing a tomato sip with these pots a few weeks ago and had problem with overwicking, so now i will add much more hydroton. Will also be carefull when filling the sip the first time so it dont drown my babies.
> 
> ...



I'm glad to see you are experimenting with cannabis and sips, and I look forward to seeing how it goes. I've used peat moss/coco/perlite growing mixes in my sip wicks, but found they clouded up the water in the res so I switched to just packing the wicks with the same soil I was growing in. So I can't help you with your question, sorry... but I am interested to see how it works!


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## Rocket Soul (Jul 24, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I'm glad to see you are experimenting with cannabis and sips, and I look forward to seeing how it goes. I've used peat moss/coco/perlite growing mixes in my sip wicks, but found they clouded up the water in the res so I switched to just packing the wicks with the same soil I was growing in. So I can't help you with your question, sorry... but I am interested to see how it works!


I was more concerned about what to put on top, as in proportion of aereation, ewc and soil, for good proportions for aereation and wicking.

The first tomato test on this pot was overwicking. Ill probably top water until im certain i have roots to handle the sip. 

For nutrients im thinking some passive, some topdress i can even do liquid nutes and just clean the res after.  

Sits in snuggly and acts as its own lid.


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## dubekoms (Jul 26, 2017)

Sorry I'm not sure if this has been asked yet but what size wick would yall recommend for a 10gallon fabric pot on a 10 gallon res. I was thinking either a 6 or 8 inch net pot..


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## Humanrob (Jul 26, 2017)

dubekoms said:


> Sorry I'm not sure if this has been asked yet but what size wick would yall recommend for a 10gallon fabric pot on a 10 gallon res. I was thinking either a 6 or 8 inch net pot..


I've not used net pots so I have no direct experience with that combo, although I just did a run with 10 gallon fabric pots over 10 gallon rubbermaid bin/res's, and I used a 5" perf'd drain pipe (that I enlarged the holes on considerably) as my wick. I would imagine a net pot would work, but they seem kind of short? 

Depending on the net pots length be sure you know how low you can let your water go so that your wick is always at least touching water. If for example the res is 8" deep but the net pot/wick is only 4" deep, you are wasting half of your water capacity. 

That's why I like using the drain pipe, I cut it to be long enough to touch the bottom of the res, and I can let my water level go down to 1" before refilling them -- which this last grow was every 7+/- days. I just happened to take down that grow last night, and took these pics...

 

EDIT - Correction... I just checked, and my fabric pots are "#7" so I guess I was using 7 gallon pots over 10 gallon res's. Just trying to keep it accurate.


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## Humanrob (Jul 26, 2017)

...and @dubekoms -- now that I've looked at mine again, I would say 6" would be better than 8", there is such a thing as having too much wick.


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## dubekoms (Jul 26, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I've not used net pots so I have no direct experience with that combo, although I just did a run with 10 gallon fabric pots over 10 gallon rubbermaid bin/res's, and I used a 5" perf'd drain pipe (that I enlarged the holes on considerably) as my wick. I would imagine a net pot would work, but they seem kind of short?
> 
> Depending on the net pots length be sure you know how low you can let your water go so that your wick is always at least touching water. If for example the res is 8" deep but the net pot/wick is only 4" deep, you are wasting half of your water capacity.
> 
> ...


The res is 9in deep, a 6in net pot is about 5in and I can zip tie a smaller 4in pot on the bottom but I do like the drain pipe idea. What do you put on the end to prevent soil from coming out?


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## Humanrob (Jul 26, 2017)

dubekoms said:


> The res is 9in deep, a 6in net pot is about 5in and I can zip tie a smaller 4in pot on the bottom but I do like the drain pipe idea. What do you put on the end to prevent soil from coming out?


The first year I glued caps that had holes (kind of looked like a grate) in them that I found in the same section as the drain pipe at Home Depot. This year I used window screening held in place with a large zip-tie positioned into the bottom corrugated groove.


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## Skylander (Aug 3, 2017)

How many weeks can I veg before top dressing is needed.Everything looks good so far but I don't want to wait too late.  I mixed my own soil using the coots mix from buildasoil. 
2 cu ft Coco
2 cu ft compost
1 cu ft castings
Buildasoil Coco mineral kit

I also use additives like optiveg, em1, fulvic acid, etc.


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## Joomby (Aug 6, 2017)

Check this out if you love free shit it's actually Preety cool I just want 2 more hits for free shit haha.


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## GreatwhiteNorth (Aug 7, 2017)

@Joomby - Please, no spam links.
Thank you.


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## Evil-Mobo (Aug 7, 2017)

Ghost Pepper


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## ttystikk (Aug 7, 2017)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Ghost Pepper
> 
> View attachment 3991692


Supernaturally hot!


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## greg nr (Aug 23, 2017)

I harvested my first crop from the sips containers and they did really well. I got 15 full quart mason jars off 3 plants (2 in one sip, one in another). Haven't weighed them yet, but the nugs are good and dense so it should do well. Those were the select buds. There was a fair amount of secondary harvest that will will be used for extract.

What impressed me though was that when I pulled up on the stalk that was one plant to sip, all the dirt in the container lifted out. The container is something like 30" long by 19" deep. I expected a root mass in the center, but not all the way out to the edges. There were a LOT of roots.

Interestingly, none of the roots were below the bottom of the soil (into the res). I let the res dry out at times, so maybe that air pruned them. No matter, the plants were healthy and the root system robust.

I'm sold.


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## ttystikk (Aug 23, 2017)

greg nr said:


> I harvested my first crop from the sips containers and they did really well. I got 15 full quart mason jars off 3 plants (2 in one sip, one in another). Haven't weighed them yet, but the nugs are good and dense so it should do well. Those were the select buds. There was a fair amount of secondary harvest that will will be used for extract.
> 
> What impressed me though was that when I pulled up on the stalk that was one plant to sip, all the dirt in the container lifted out. The container is something like 30" long by 19" deep. I expected a root mass in the center, but not all the way out to the edges. There were a LOT of roots.
> 
> ...


I'm thinking the opposite. Unless you aerated your water, the roots wouldn't grow into it. The results still speak for themselves!


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## Tim Fox (Aug 23, 2017)

My outside tomato and bell peppers


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## Tim Fox (Aug 23, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I'm thinking the opposite. Unless you aedon't use airstonesated your water, the roots wouldn't grow into it. The results still speak for themselves!


I have shown several pictures in this thread of my water roots with cannabis plants and i don't use airstones, so maybe they did air prune?
Edit , with this current tomato plant the res has ran dry several times so i am curious to see if there are roots in the res or not,


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## ttystikk (Aug 23, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> I have shown several pictures in this thread of my water roots with cannabis plants and i don't use airstones, so maybe they did air prune?
> Edit , with this current tomato plant the res has ran dry several times so i am curious to see if there are roots in the res or not,


They'll only air prune if it's really dry in the space, as in low RH. A lack of oxygen in the water will effectively keep roots from colonizing.

During a tour of my local university horticulture lab today, I saw rafts of lettuce floating in flood tables. They were aerated.


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## Tim Fox (Aug 24, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> They'll only air prune if it's really dry in the space, as in low RH. A lack of oxygen in the water will effectively keep roots from colonizing.
> 
> During a tour of my local university horticulture lab today, I saw rafts of lettuce floating in flood tables. They were aerated.


ill be real courious to see the roots from these plants,, if they exist or not,, the new sip has a pretty big viewing hole ,, and i cant see any down there,, who knows, hahaha,, 
i am too lazy to hook an air stone up,, part of me wants too,, as well as an external res,, i just kep talking myself out of it,, even though i have just about everythning needed to do the job


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## Tim Fox (Aug 25, 2017)

Good afternoon sip growers


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## ttystikk (Aug 25, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Good afternoon sip growers


I could do with a sip of something tasty, myself...


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## Tim Fox (Aug 25, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I could do with a sip of something tasty, myself...


That is a good idea, how about homemade wine coolers


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## ttystikk (Aug 25, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> That is a good idea, how about homemade wine coolers


I was thinking of something medicinal; gin and tonic, perhaps.


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## GreatwhiteNorth (Aug 25, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I was thinking of something medicinal; gin and tonic, perhaps.


I like the way you think.
Sapphire east/Tonic with a hint of lime is my "Go to" Sip. 

And the constant Malaria threat is instantly a non-issue


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## ttystikk (Aug 25, 2017)

GreatwhiteNorth said:


> I like the way you think.
> Sapphire east/Tonic with a hint of lime is my "Go to" Sip.
> 
> And the constant Malaria threat is instantly a non-issue


...as is the threat of scurvy- bonus!


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## Lucky Luke (Aug 25, 2017)

Pineapple express #2 in a little commercial sip. http://www.decor.com.au/garden/self-watering-pots/


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## Tim Fox (Aug 25, 2017)

Lucky Luke said:


> Pineapple express #2 in a little commercial sip. http://www.decor.com.au/garden/self-watering-pots/
> 
> View attachment 4000181


THat is beautiful


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## Lucky Luke (Aug 25, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> THat is beautiful


Thank you mate.

One thing ive noticed over a normal soil grow is less bugs because the top layer of soil is always dry.


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## Tim Fox (Aug 25, 2017)

Lucky Luke said:


> Thank you mate.
> 
> One thing ive noticed over a normal soil grow is less bugs because the top layer of soil is always dry.


some of us have taken to putting black plastic garbage bags over the top,, really puts a stop to the bugs, 
really dig the little sip


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## ttystikk (Aug 25, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> some of us have taken to putting black plastic garbage bags over the top,, really puts a stop to the bugs,
> really dig the little sip


I like this idea.


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## greg nr (Aug 26, 2017)

I had a gnat attack in veg, but simple foliar spraying with method-1 seems to have knocked them down. Haven't seen one in days in either tent.

I like to keep the soil bare so that if I decide to top-water teas or beneficial bacteria I have good access. Plus I'm thinking of planting some garlic and peppermint as a companion crop. Both are supposed to piss off bugs.


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## Tim Fox (Aug 26, 2017)

greg nr said:


> I had a gnat attack in veg, but simple foliar spraying with method-1 seems to have knocked them down. Haven't seen one in days in either tent.
> 
> I like to keep the soil bare so that if I decide to top-water teas or beneficial bacteria I have good access. Plus I'm thinking of planting some garlic and peppermint as a companion crop. Both are supposed to piss off bugs.


one of my buddies on here @Evil-Mobo he puts crops on top of his no tills,,, it really does have an interesting look to it


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## Evil-Mobo (Aug 28, 2017)

greg nr said:


> I had a gnat attack in veg, but simple foliar spraying with method-1 seems to have knocked them down. Haven't seen one in days in either tent.
> 
> I like to keep the soil bare so that if I decide to top-water teas or beneficial bacteria I have good access. Plus I'm thinking of planting some garlic and peppermint as a companion crop. Both are supposed to piss off bugs.


I use method 1 as well and use a cover crop you will not be disappointed.


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## Lucky Luke (Sep 4, 2017)

What is your favorite size sip?
Rectangle, round or square?


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## Tim Fox (Sep 4, 2017)

Lucky Luke said:


> What is your favorite size sip?
> Rectangle, round or square?


my new fav is the growbox cheaper than the earthbox and has double the res size at 4.5 gallons,, 
my fav sip i have seen but dont own was built by a grower on riu named someguy,, i think rob also has some made from the squatty squart 10 gallon storage tubs


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## ttystikk (Sep 4, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> my new fav is the growbox cheaper than the earthbox and has double the res size at 4.5 gallons,,
> my fav sip i have seen but dont own was built by a grower on riu named someguy,, i think rob also has some made from the squatty squart 10 gallon storage tubs


It would be nice to see a pic of them, if you could manage a link?


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## Tim Fox (Sep 4, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> It would be nice to see a pic of them, if you could manage a link?


its my new fav sip 
http://www.agardenpatch.com/?gclid=CjwKEAjw87PNBRDA_rHbypeJmFkSJADRcAivN0KyyQfrmUsy7HOnDrtc8Qi5dApbPKSq44OrKf8iRRoCNgjw_wcB


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## nolem1234 (Sep 4, 2017)

I'm 3.5 weeks into flower with a "patio picker" SIP. Got it from Lowes, Home Depot has them too for $20-30. Been working well so far, I let the res go dry twice to get rid of fungus gnats laying eggs in the top layer of soil. I am trying out doing a cluster of multiple clones vegged just past when they got established in the SIP, rather than one or two larger ones vegged for longer. These are all Purple Dream clones off of a previous run from a bigger grow. 2x4ft tent with 2 LED Quantum boards. Pics are from around week 2. Home Depot link: https://goo.gl/NhrYGf


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## CollieWeed (Sep 5, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> some of us have taken to putting black plastic garbage bags over the top,, really puts a stop to the bugs,
> really dig the little sip


@Tim Fox, interesting, how does this work? 
With plastic bag on top of planter, there is no need to mulch? Top drees? Top water?
Or can all the above be done with the plastic bag?
And how would I add my cal/ mag, or other nutes? In the res?
Sorry for the barrage of questions..
Here is what I'm planing on doing in a Indoor Tent.
Thanks,


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## Nugachino (Sep 7, 2017)

I've got a bunch of 10L square buckets here. I was either considering just running 4 as is for next round. Or doing a couple SIPs myself.

These SIPs look tempting. Should I give them a crack?


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## Tim Fox (Sep 7, 2017)

CollieWeed said:


> @Tim Fox, interesting, how does this work?
> With plastic bag on top of planter, there is no need to mulch? Top drees? Top water?
> Or can all the above be done with the plastic bag?
> And how would I add my cal/ mag, or other nutes? In the res?
> ...


good questions,, 
how it goes is this, almost everyone covers the tops of thier soil with plastic or lids to slow down evap, or to block bugs,, and it does both,, most people, ad cal mag and nutes to the res when needed and the soil/roots uptake from there, and since there is a plastic cover there is no need to top dress ,, most do not top water sips unless they accidently let them run dry to restart the wicking process,,, 
with that being said,, i have seen many people do other things,, like leave off the plastic,, top dress,, or top feed,, and yet thier sips worked fine,, some report getting bugs again without the cover,, others dont
for me i cover and put anything needed down in the res,, 
most growers try to start with such an amazing soil that the soil lasts the whole grow and no nutes are needed,, i had to ad cal mag on my last grow due to the cobs,, 
BUT on this grow ,, the tomato tone dry fert had so much calcium in it,, that i did not have to add anything ,, ust water the whole grow,,, 
on my next sip grow i will use ffof and tomato tone,, and hopefully water only the whole ride with a plastic cover in place


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## Nugachino (Sep 7, 2017)

I know yield is subjective to conditions and a myriad of other variables. But would you say a SIP improves them in some way? Or is it more the fact that you don't have to deal with gnats and other shite?


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## Tim Fox (Sep 7, 2017)

Nugachino said:


> I know yield is subjective to conditions and a myriad of other variables. But would you say a SIP improves them in some way? Or is it more the fact that you don't have to deal with gnats and other shite?


i feel you get hydroponic type results without hydroponic work,, no ph'ing of water,, no tdds,, no mixing of nutes, no res change outs,, but fast explosive growth,, and many days inbetween watering


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## Nugachino (Sep 7, 2017)

If that's true. Then I may just have to upsize my other grow box. And give that a go. The speed of veg in hydro is about the only aspect I really have any interest in. Don't care for the synthetic nutes. I like my organics too much.

Cheers Tim.


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## Lucky Luke (Sep 8, 2017)

This guy is interesting. I dont think he is a fantastic grower (some of his veg time seems to be a waste when taking into account of his canopy height in some of his vids) but some decent info in here


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## Nugachino (Sep 8, 2017)

Sub Irrigated Space Bucket... Mystery bean clone. Reservoir holds 1.5L and has 5 wicks in the base.


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## Lucky Luke (Sep 8, 2017)

Nugachino said:


> Sub Irrigated Space Bucket... Mystery bean clone. Reservoir holds 1.5L and has 5 wicks in the base.


Looks interesting. I hope it goes well. Have u tested the wicks whicking effect yet and if so how?


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## Nugachino (Sep 8, 2017)

Saturation test. Took less tha 5 min to soak about 10cm. With just a bit sitting in water. Rest hanging out.


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## CollieWeed (Sep 8, 2017)

I'm so confused! My last grow was a attempt at swc, I was told 101 times! Not to add anyting to my res. Except water!
Cause it may break down in water aND cause Bud Mold, now @Tim Fox you telling me You use all your nutes in your Res.?
I plan on using cal/mag, molasses and fish fert. So, I can cover the top and add all the above in my res?
Sorry for all the questions, but, I think I been doing it wrong.


----------



## Tim Fox (Sep 8, 2017)

Nugachino said:


> If that's true. Then I may just have to upsize my other grow box. And give that a go. The speed of veg in hydro is about the only aspect I really have any interest in. Don't care for the synthetic nutes. I like my organics too much.
> 
> Cheers Tim.


agreed with you,, i to prefer the no till organic soil mixes , and the simplicity of water only,, its really cool


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## Tim Fox (Sep 8, 2017)

CollieWeed said:


> You use all your nutes in your Res


i know captain morgan on here ads up to half or more of his nutes to his res,,, i have only added cal mag to my res as my soil supports the entire grow,, but yes, you can ad nutes to your res,, i would not use salts type nutes,, that would be very bad


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## Nugachino (Sep 8, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> agreed with you,, i to prefer the no till organic soil mixes , and the simplicity of water only,, its really cool


I wouldn't say water only. I mean. I might be able to get away with that. But, I've been feeding mine a varied solution of go go juice, bokashi bin runoff. And worm bin run off. I don't pH anything anymore. Haven't needed to.


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## Humanrob (Sep 8, 2017)

That seems to be what I've understood -- if you add nutes then you change the water's chemistry to a degree that would necessitate ph'ing the water, taking things to a different place in terms of maintenance overhead. Like Tim I've added calmag (mostly in response to growing with COBs). I've also added silica, and a couple of times from another angle Pond-zyme or Hygrozyme (but I've never done a straight comparison with and without, so I'm really not sure how much impact they've had). 

I think it really depends on what you are after. If you want to squeeze every possible gram per square foot out of your grow space, then you'll be turning everything (lights, nutes, etc.) up until it starts to hurt them, and then dialing back. If you just want healthy happy productive plants that are low maintenance -- keep them well within their limits, give them plenty but not too much of everything, and let them do their thing. Really good soil with time release organic nutes, and just water in the res has grown some great bud. Just my $.02




CollieWeed said:


> I'm so confused! My last grow was a attempt at swc, I was told 101 times! Not to add anyting to my res. Except water!
> Cause it may break down in water aND cause Bud Mold, now @Tim Fox you telling me You use all your nutes in your Res.?
> I plan on using cal/mag, molasses and fish fert. So, I can cover the top and add all the above in my res?
> Sorry for all the questions, but, I think I been doing it wrong.





Tim Fox said:


> i know captain morgan on here ads up to half or more of his nutes to his res,,, i have only added cal mag to my res as my soil supports the entire grow,, but yes, you can ad nutes to your res,, i would not use salts type nutes,, that would be very bad





Nugachino said:


> I wouldn't say water only. I mean. I might be able to get away with that. But, I've been feeding mine a varied solution of go go juice, bokashi bin runoff. And worm bin run off. I don't pH anything anymore. Haven't needed to.


----------



## Nugachino (Sep 8, 2017)

I haven't noticed any cal-mag problems with my main plant. That's under cobs. Twin Vero 29C. 200w.


----------



## Philip-O (Sep 8, 2017)

Lucky Luke said:


> This guy is interesting. I dont think he is a fantastic grower (some of his veg time seems to be a waste when taking into account of his canopy height in some of his vids) but some decent info in here


Can you elaborate on this? What is the relation between proper veg time and canopy height? For example, I just vegged for 9 weeks some very short plants that have 20+ main branches each.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Sep 8, 2017)

Philip-O said:


> Can you elaborate on this? What is the relation between proper veg time and canopy height? For example, I just vegged for 9 weeks some very short plants that have 20+ main branches each.


It might not be on this video but in some of them he shows a scrog net that is way to high. Over waist height?? from memory.
This means he has had to use allot of veg time just to reach the net, lollipop from the net down all that growth he has spent time growing. He could of 1/2 the distance from pot to net and cut his veg time way down and filled the same size canopy.


----------



## Lucky Luke (Sep 8, 2017)

CollieWeed said:


> I'm so confused! My last grow was a attempt at swc, I was told 101 times! Not to add anyting to my res. Except water!
> Cause it may break down in water aND cause Bud Mold, now @Tim Fox you telling me You use all your nutes in your Res.?
> I plan on using cal/mag, molasses and fish fert. So, I can cover the top and add all the above in my res?
> Sorry for all the questions, but, I think I been doing it wrong.


i use nutes in mine. Not always, only if i see a deffiancy


----------



## pinner420 (Sep 9, 2017)

About a pound


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## Skylander (Sep 9, 2017)

The way it was explained to me was that with proper soil life and moister top dressing good as long as you understand the rate in which whatever you top dress breaks down. I top dress for my current and future grows. I have beneficial mites, worms, fungi etc and you can actually see the amendments break down. Also I've noticed I get way more surface roots with my plastic cover. I think I will reach my pound per plant goal this round.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 9, 2017)

Skylander said:


> The way it was explained to me was that with proper soil life and moister top dressing good as long as you understand the rate in which whatever you top dress breaks down. I top dress for my current and future grows. I have beneficial mites, worms, fungi etc and you can actually see the amendments break down. Also I've noticed I get way more surface roots with my plastic cover. I think I will reach my pound per plant goal this round.


From how big of a container?


----------



## Skylander (Sep 9, 2017)

I'm using 30 gallon totes. Both are on day 6 of flower or let me say I went 12/12 six days ago!  

They're in a 5x9 tent...I also have a small plant I'm testing on the other side.


----------



## CollieWeed (Sep 17, 2017)

Hi guys, so, I have setup my SWC but I don't think it's wicking?
It been 5 days since I filled the bottom of the bucket, but it's still full has not moved, I'm using Growstone as a wicking agent, and have about 25 to 30% Growstone in my soil mix.
I know the the stones work, I used them in my last grow in a tote with pots on top of stones. Seedling looking under watered!


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 17, 2017)

CollieWeed said:


> Hi guys, so, I have setup my SWC but I don't think it's wicking?
> It been 5 days since I filled the bottom of the bucket, but it's still full has not moved, I'm using Growstone as a wicking agent, and have about 25 to 30% Growstone in my soil mix.
> I know the the stones work, I used them in my last grow in a tote with pots on top of stones. Seedling looking under watered!
> 
> View attachment 4011985 View attachment 4011987


Grow stones won't wick any more than hydroton will.

It needs to be a wettable soil or soilless material.


----------



## chakup (Sep 17, 2017)

Skylander said:


> I'm using 30 gallon totes. Both are on day 6 of flower or let me say I went 12/12 six days ago! View attachment 4007868 View attachment 4007869
> 
> They're in a 5x9 tent...I also have a small plant I'm testing on the other side.


Any pics/info of your tote setup?


----------



## CollieWeed (Sep 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Grow stones won't wick any more than hydroton will.
> 
> It needs to be a wettable soil or soilless material.


Thanks, @ttystikk, I got this email today after 4 days of waiting for a response from them. Please let me know if this is BS, or I'm just using it wrong. Thanks,

*Do Growstones allow for capillary water rise (wicking capacity)?*
Yes. Growstones wick up water up to 13 to 15 cm above the water level. Since capillary rise is driven by pore size and structure, the pore size inside each aggregate and between each aggregate, determines how high water can rise in Growstones. The smaller the aggregate (stone) size, the smaller the inter-aggregate pore space and the higher the capillary rise.


----------



## greg nr (Sep 17, 2017)

CollieWeed said:


> Thanks, @ttystikk, I got this email today after 4 days of waiting for a response from them. Please let me know if this is BS, or I'm just using it wrong. Thanks,
> 
> *Do Growstones allow for capillary water rise (wicking capacity)?*
> Yes. Growstones wick up water up to 13 to 15 cm above the water level. Since capillary rise is driven by pore size and structure, the pore size inside each aggregate and between each aggregate, determines how high water can rise in Growstones. The smaller the aggregate (stone) size, the smaller the inter-aggregate pore space and the higher the capillary rise.


So are you believing an email or your own lying eyes?


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 17, 2017)

CollieWeed said:


> Thanks, @ttystikk, I got this email today after 4 days of waiting for a response from them. Please let me know if this is BS, or I'm just using it wrong. Thanks,
> 
> *Do Growstones allow for capillary water rise (wicking capacity)?*
> Yes. Growstones wick up water up to 13 to 15 cm above the water level. Since capillary rise is driven by pore size and structure, the pore size inside each aggregate and between each aggregate, determines how high water can rise in Growstones. The smaller the aggregate (stone) size, the smaller the inter-aggregate pore space and the higher the capillary rise.


Having built my own SIPS, worked with grow stones and with other substrates, I think they're full of shit.

I'm having excellent results with Tupur, but that's a coco based mix that does an excellent job of wicking moisture.


----------



## ttystikk (Sep 17, 2017)

By the way, as a technical aside; I have it on excellent authority that if one drops a SIPS system into an RDWC, the result is amazing water roots.


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## CollieWeed (Sep 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Having built my own SIPS, worked with grow stones and with other substrates, I think they're full of shit.
> 
> I'm having excellent results with Tupur, but that's a coco based mix that does an excellent job of wicking moisture.


Thanks, @ttystikk, what you suggest I do? I have the stones at the bottom of bucket in a cup, would need to remove dirt to get to the stones. And my plant is already 6 days old


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## ttystikk (Sep 17, 2017)

CollieWeed said:


> Thanks, @ttystikk, what you suggest I do? I have the stones at the bottom of bucket in a cup, would need to remove dirt to get to the stones. And my plant is already 6 days old


If you want it to work, it has to be the right configuration. Your call, but I'd yank the thing out and make it right, quick before the plant suffers any further.


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## CollieWeed (Sep 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> If you want it to work, it has to be the right configuration. Your call, but I'd yank the thing out and make it right, quick before the plant suffers any further.


Thank you very much sir! for your quick reply! 
That's exactly what Imy gonna do, one more question?
Can I just use my organic soil mix as a wick? Or was planning on coco coir?


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## ttystikk (Sep 17, 2017)

CollieWeed said:


> Thank you very much sir! for your quick reply!
> That's exactly what Imy gonna do, one more question?
> Can I just use my organic soil mix as a wick? Or was planning on coco coir?


You could mix the two and I'm pretty sure that would work very well.


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## Lucky Luke (Sep 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> By the way, as a technical aside; I have it on excellent authority that if one drops a SIPS system into an RDWC, the result is amazing water roots.


RDWC? 

Recirculate direct water culture? Example pretty please.


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## ttystikk (Sep 17, 2017)

Lucky Luke said:


> RDWC?
> 
> Recirculate direct water culture? Example pretty please.


Recirculating Deep Water Culture.

Plants grow in water with little or no substrate. The root ball is always underwater.

The water itself is circulated among the sites where the plants grow and a container that pumps and chills it. In this way the nutrient water is cooled, agitated, oxygenated and moved past the rootball, providing the plants with everything they need at all times, thus encouraging explosive growth and heavy yields.


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## Skylander (Sep 21, 2017)

chakup said:


> Any pics/info of your tote setup?


----------



## Skylander (Sep 22, 2017)

I followed a YouTubers design and beefed it up a bit.


chakup said:


> Any pics/info of your tote setup?


I'm just using a basic design I found on YouTube. I cut the lid around the edges inside the tote and drilled holes in the lid to include a hole big enough for a 1 gallon pot in the center. Note when you do that it leaves a plastic piece that you will use later to secure your plastic cover or in my case a black plastic bag. I used 1 gallon pots for my spacers. You will need 5 per tote to include the one you will use as a soil wick. I put a 1 gallon pot in each corner of the tote. I placed the lid on top on the pots and lined inside of the bucket with landscape fabric (my preference). Prevents soil from dropping into the res if you have big gaps after all the cutting. I drilled a 3/4 hole at the end of one side the tote and a small over flow hole right above it 2 inches below my soil line. To find your soil line just use a 1 gallon pot/spacer as a guide. I used a rubber insert and L fitting from a ebb and flow system I have. I attached a small piece of clear tubing long enough to reach your soil line. I took a permanent marker and drew a line at drain hole level.. I didnt like the design with the big fill pipe coming out of soil. You ever get a gnat problem you with never win with that design. Thats it. Fill with soil and top off your reservoir and you're good!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 2, 2017)

what up SIP heads long time... any of ya still active and at it? just about to soak a few beans for 24 hours and get my green thumbs back in the game! How are everyones grows going??


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## Humanrob (Oct 2, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> what up SIP heads long time... any of ya still active and at it? just about to soak a few beans for 24 hours and get my green thumbs back in the game! How are everyones grows going??


I'm setting up for what I hope will be the first of two winter runs. I'm going to be crowding my tents a bit on the first one, popped too many seeds, so I won't have room for SIPs this run. Also, I'm not sure how I'd do SIPs with plants that are not sex'd, that seems to be a wrench in the machine for me. Still hoping to do a SIP/non-SIP comparison run next round using some clones.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 2, 2017)

i dont think i will ever NOT do SIP's they are just so low maintenance. I never did pre sexing anyway so i would be taking the same risk but i used fem seeds or clones. I mean if you are already planning on using too much room.. mid as well crowd with sips and cull the males after flip and then fill in the rest with training. Also I have been trying to catch up and have had my first harvest with SIPs.. i agree on the little branched ... i bet this could be solved with some hard core pruning... I just have a hard time pruning my plants.. just kinda let them do their thing and use the popcorn for hash or whatever all smokes the same after the grinder (-;


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 2, 2017)

Skylander said:


> I followed a YouTubers design and beefed it up a bit.
> 
> 
> I'm just using a basic design I found on YouTube. I cut the lid around the edges inside the tote and drilled holes in the lid to include a hole big enough for a 1 gallon pot in the center. Note when you do that it leaves a plastic piece that you will use later to secure your plastic cover or in my case a black plastic bag. I used 1 gallon pots for my spacers. You will need 5 per tote to include the one you will use as a soil wick. I put a 1 gallon pot in each corner of the tote. I placed the lid on top on the pots and lined inside of the bucket with landscape fabric (my preference). Prevents soil from dropping into the res if you have big gaps after all the cutting. I drilled a 3/4 hole at the end of one side the tote and a small over flow hole right above it 2 inches below my soil line. To find your soil line just use a 1 gallon pot/spacer as a guide. I used a rubber insert and L fitting from a ebb and flow system I have. I attached a small piece of clear tubing long enough to reach your soil line. I took a permanent marker and drew a line at drain hole level.. I didnt like the design with the big fill pipe coming out of soil. You ever get a gnat problem you with never win with that design. Thats it. Fill with soil and top off your reservoir and you're good!
> ...


this is the best design i have found


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## neroceasar (Oct 2, 2017)

has anyone tried having a grow bed/res thats covered but has points where tubes of peat come up and then you just put smart pots on top of them? just a thought i had while setting up my SIP. I want to be able to access the res without having to dig. so if all the soil is in a grow bag/bed and can be lifted that would make it much easier.. anyone have thoughts? the res is 2X3 and i want a 2X3 bed over it.

also: do you think that 5 4" wicks in an X pattern would cover it?


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## T-Time (Oct 3, 2017)

My setup has a separate tank and I can take each pot out if need be. 
You can have a look in the first post, maybe You'll get some inspiration. It's my first run on it, but so far going well.
http://rollitup.org/t/5x5-vertical-farming-hempy-bucket-led-grow.949945/


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 3, 2017)

T-Time said:


> My setup has a separate tank and I can take each pot out if need be.
> You can have a look in the first post, maybe You'll get some inspiration. It's my first run on it, but so far going well.
> http://rollitup.org/t/5x5-vertical-farming-hempy-bucket-led-grow.949945/


WOW! an actual use for those pots! lol not knocking your set up but personally i hate those dam air pots! I like the premise behind them but I could never get them to work well..I wish you the best of luck with them man!


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## T-Time (Oct 3, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> WOW! an actual use for those pots! lol not knocking your set up but personally i hate those dam air pots! I like the premise behind them but I could never get them to work well..I wish you the best of luck with them man!


Hahaha,

They wrked pretty well for me in the past so I decided to use them. Watering by hand was pain in the ass tho :/


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 3, 2017)

T-Time said:


> Hahaha,
> 
> They wrked pretty well for me in the past so I decided to use them. Watering by hand was pain in the ass tho :/


yeah i was hand watering.


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## neroceasar (Oct 6, 2017)

can anyone point me in the right direction toward where i can find out the right wick sizes and quantity of wicks i need for my set up? 5 4"ers seams a bit over kill for a 2x3. thinking more 3 - 4. the 18gal/14 gal sip tote has one and that was more like 12 or so gallons of soil.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 6, 2017)

neroceasar said:


> can anyone point me in the right direction toward where i can find out the right wick sizes and quantity of wicks i need for my set up? 5 4"ers seams a bit over kill for a 2x3. thinking more 3 - 4. the 18gal/14 gal sip tote has one and that was more like 12 or so gallons of soil.


so you are saying you have a 2'X3' soil base? what is the height? I made the 14 gallon inntainers i posted a bit back and they are GREAT and only use 1 wick, and it is not very large, and consists of a 5" net pot. This may seem small but it does the trick perfectly! The inntainers are very slick and ez to build as well, LOVE them!!


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## neroceasar (Oct 6, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> so you are saying you have a 2'X3' soil base? what is the height? I made the 14 gallon inntainers i posted a bit back and they are GREAT and only use 1 wick, and it is not very large, and consists of a 5" net pot. This may seem small but it does the trick perfectly! The inntainers are very slick and ez to build as well, LOVE them!!


well, I have 2X3 topless reservoir. then i have 4" corrugated tubing layed horizontally in the bottom for the res. i was gonna cut some tubing to put vertically in there for wicks but Now I'm leaning toward long thin wicks in between the 4" tubing. probably have 2.5-3" of total space between the tubes, figure 2-3, 1 inch wide wicks that go the full 36"(more like 32 at bottom) ought to do it. it'll be alot more adjustable than if i put vertical "stationary" wicks at places around the res. I plan on having all my wicks in home made fabric pots. That way if its too much water i can lift up my bag and just take out the wick and but a shorter one in. I have access to a serger sewing machine, so i can make all sizes and shapes of "pots". I'll post some pics when i get it finished. I haven't decided on soil height yet, but it'll be between 12-16 and it'll be the same size as the res.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 9, 2017)

neroceasar said:


> well, I have 2X3 topless reservoir. then i have 4" corrugated tubing layed horizontally in the bottom for the res. i was gonna cut some tubing to put vertically in there for wicks but Now I'm leaning toward long thin wicks in between the 4" tubing. probably have 2.5-3" of total space between the tubes, figure 2-3, 1 inch wide wicks that go the full 36"(more like 32 at bottom) ought to do it. it'll be alot more adjustable than if i put vertical "stationary" wicks at places around the res. I plan on having all my wicks in home made fabric pots. That way if its too much water i can lift up my bag and just take out the wick and but a shorter one in. I have access to a serger sewing machine, so i can make all sizes and shapes of "pots". I'll post some pics when i get it finished. I haven't decided on soil height yet, but it'll be between 12-16 and it'll be the same size as the res.


different strokes different folks! so many ways to grow this plant is crazy! can't wait to see your set up in action man!


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 9, 2017)

Nice. to all the info that has been posted. Currently Im making a build of a sip, basically 37 x 37 and 16 inches high. 

@meangreengrowinmachine or @Tim Fox I plant to cut 3.5 inch holes into the planters to fit these net pots. 
Below .. This is a similar idea to buildasoils.


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 9, 2017)

The tray below would be low profile about 3 inches. netpots are 3 inches and would be used as a wick. 1 per corner.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 10, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> The tray below would be low profile about 3 inches. netpots are 3 inches and would be used as a wick. 1 per corner.


That looks really good , home Depot sales a square sip that looks similar, should work great


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 11, 2017)

looking good man! Personally i like a larger volume of water... just due to my pure laziness and not wanting to add water a lot lol.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 11, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> looking good man! Personally i like a larger volume of water... just due to my pure laziness and not wanting to add water a lot lol.


Agree , that is the main reason i switch from Earth box to grow box sip , it holds twice the watef


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 11, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Agree , that is the main reason i switch from Earth box to grow box sip , it holds twice the watef


The bottom tray is low profile but I think can hold 30 gallons of water..


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 11, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> The bottom tray is low profile but I think can hold 30 gallons of water..


THIRTY gallons!? holy sht the 14 gallon sips i made hold about 4 or 5 max i think, and they grow BIG trees!


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## ttystikk (Oct 11, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> THIRTY gallons!? holy sht the 14 gallon sips i made hold about 4 or 5 max i think, and they grow BIG trees!


My RDWC systems would hold 16 gallons per tubsite. I grew big trees, too.


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 11, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> THIRTY gallons!? holy sht the 14 gallon sips i made hold about 4 or 5 max i think, and they grow BIG trees!


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## Tim Fox (Oct 11, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> View attachment 4025273 View attachment 4025274


I ran your tray thru a gallon calcuator and ya 34 gallons , if you leave the 1 inch air gap you still get 24 gallons , what i am thinking is you are going to want more wicks at 4x4 tray like 4 in the corner and at least one center and something to hold up all the weight of the soil


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 11, 2017)

Now I have 3 inch net pots. I am going to cut 5 holes in the planter at 25 inches in on each coners. One in the dead center.


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 11, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> I ran your tray thru a gallon calcuator and ya 34 gallons , if you leave the 1 inch air gap you still get 24 gallons , what i am thinking is you are going to want more wicks at 4x4 tray like 4 in the corner and at least one center and something to hold up all the weight of the soil


weight of the soil
I have 5 netpots. See this is really it. Im going to a laser frabric cutter in town. I kmow I know all the do it yourselfers would cut it them selves but I want everything exact once.


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 11, 2017)

Im thinking since this is a frabrication company I could get them to line mine net pots with some Unsed smartpots I have. only would take hmm 2 or 3 1 gallon pot sizes.

Any thoughts. Im doing this tomorrow.


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 11, 2017)

Im thiking about using 2-3 of smart pots and lining the net pots. that way they will wick up water to the planter.. If not line I will be using growstones. THEY have worked for me. I just want more thoughts on this.


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## hyroot (Oct 11, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> View attachment 4025367
> Im thiking about using 2-3 of smart pots and lining the net pots. that way they will wick up water to the planter.. If not line I will be using growstones. THEY have worked for me. I just want more thoughts on this.


Ive been runnung fabric pot sips for over a year now. I'm the one that introduced sips to this forum a couple years ago.

Anyway I line my net pot with weed mat and use a 50 / 50 mix of pumice and coco for the wicking medium. It works really well. It prevents over saturation of soil from occuring . As opposed to using only coco and no weed mat lining.

The roots do grow through the weed mat into the resi.

You don't want to go smaller than 10 gallons for fabric pot sips. Wider is better when it comes to all sip builds.


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 12, 2017)

hyroot said:


> Ive been runnung fabric pot sips for over a year now. I'm the one that introduced sips to this forum a couple years ago.
> 
> Anyway I line my net pot with weed mat and use a 50 / 50 mix of pumice and coco for the wicking medium. It works really well. It prevents over saturation of soil from occuring . As opposed to using only coco and no weed mat lining.
> 
> ...


with the fabric in the water most of the time, will.it go bad? I want to turn this into a no till planter.. 

So the mesh pots will constantly be in water


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## hyroot (Oct 12, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> with the fabric in the water most of the time, will.it go bad? I want to turn this into a no till planter..
> 
> So the mesh pots will constantly be in water



Yes the mesh pots will be in the water. Running no till with knf / jadam practices is the only method to use with sips.

Theres 2 methods of keeping the water good.

1. Air stones. Adding dissolved oxygen to the water prevents pathogens from developing. Roots grow much larger and faster. Really the only benefit.

2. Add a splash of labs or em1. Lacto bacillus will outcompete pathogens. Even if the water does go bad. You can add a splash of labs or em1 and it will kill off any harmful pathogens.

# 2 is what I do. I ran air stones for about a year. Then a pump died in the 3rd week of flower on 2 plants. I was too broke to buy another one right away. I added a splash of labs everytime I refilled the resi. The roots didn't grow as much. But the yield and terpene profile increased quite a bit. I even ended up getting football size tops on a mendo breath f3. Afterwards i removed all pumps and air stones from all the sips. My room has been much quieter.

Also make sure there is an air gap between the water line and the planter.


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## hyroot (Oct 12, 2017)

Here is a thread on everything organic that I started last night


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 12, 2017)

hyroot said:


> Yes the mesh pots will be in the water. Running no till with knf / jadam practices is the only method to use with sips.
> 
> Theres 2 methods of keeping the water good.
> 
> ...



I plant to have another pvc pipe cut at about 20 - 24 inches in the left back coner for air to get to the res..

My feeding tube will be in the right coner.

Netpots (4) at 24 inches in per side and one in the center.

My question to you is will the material.of the netpots go bad in the water. I mean there smart pots and plants get watered in them, but not continueously for 24hrs.

Btw.. the res will be filled with growstones. Its used to replace hydroton and wicks up. That will support the weight of the Planter. I made my planter slightly bigger then the flood tray, so it could sit on it like a table​


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## hyroot (Oct 12, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> View attachment 4025551
> I plant to have another pvc pipe cut at about 20 - 24 inches in the left back coner for air to get to the res..
> 
> My feeding tube will be in the right coner.
> ...



I see you are doing Jeremy Silva's (owner of build a soil) sip design incorporating Soma's soil bed design. No the fabric will not go bad. without net pots you must keep the tray full so water can wick up in the center. You can add net pots though. Then you wouldn't need to keep it full. Jeremy doesn't use net pots in his design. he fills up the tray with grow stones to help wick water up. lava rock or river rock will work too. Then Also add pvc to each corner so oxygen can get to the tray below


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 12, 2017)

hyroot said:


> Here is a thread on everything organic that I started last night


Thanks

I only have time to hit the ground running persay.
dragonfly earth medicine has a great veganic line. Rootwise is good for microbes an mycorrhizae and a there are a couple of good compost tea companies out their. People may say they make great stuff. Sure fine however much of these things have been sourced.


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 12, 2017)

hyroot said:


> I see you are doing Jeremy Silva's (owner of build a soil) sip design incorporating Soma's soil bed design. No the fabric will not go bad. without net pots you must keep the tray full so water can wick up in the center. You can add net pots though. Then you wouldn't need to keep it full. Jeremy doesn't use net pots in his design. he fills up the tray with grow stones to help wick water up. lava rock or river rock will work too. Then Also add pvc to each corner so oxygen can get to the tray below


I have a gap water line remember.


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 12, 2017)

hyroot said:


> I see you are doing Jeremy Silva's (owner of build a soil) sip design incorporating Soma's soil bed design. No the fabric will not go bad. without net pots you must keep the tray full so water can wick up in the center. You can add net pots though. Then you wouldn't need to keep it full. Jeremy doesn't use net pots in his design. he fills up the tray with grow stones to help wick water up. lava rock or river rock will work too. Then Also add pvc to each corner so oxygen can get to the tray below


Anything else you might think of. I dont want the netpots to come out or be "pushed" out because of the weight of the soil in the planter. I think the stones in the bottom of the tray will support it. Plus they do wick.


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## hyroot (Oct 12, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Anything else you might think of. I dont want the netpots to come out or be "pushed" out because of the weight of the soil in the planter. I think the stones in the bottom of the tray will support it. Plus they do wick.


Yes grow stones will wick. Yes they will support the weight. If the tray was empty you could make a pvc frame to support the weight. That's what I do in my octo pot style sips. The grow stone method has been working pretty good for Jeremy


----------



## hyroot (Oct 12, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Thanks
> 
> I only have time to hit the ground running persay.
> dragonfly earth medicine has a great veganic line. Rootwise is good for microbes an mycorrhizae and a there are a couple of good compost tea companies out their. People may say they make great stuff. Sure fine however much of these things have been sourced.



The whole point of no till and knf aside from being organic is to use whats around you ( sustainable practices). DEM uses a lot of fillers in their nutrient line. Results are not the greatest. Rootwise is good for their phos solubilzer microbes. You definitely need more microbes than that provides. You want your soil to be 33% worm castings. KNF / jadam ferments will only improve your terps (brix levels) and yield and make plants more pest resistant. Then you have the best of both worlds aerobic and anaerobic beneficial microbes. Not just the facultative microbes.


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 12, 2017)

hyroot said:


> Yes grow stones will wick. Yes they will support the weight. If the tray was empty you could make a pvc frame to support the weight. That's what I do in my octo pot style sips. The grow stone method has been working pretty good for Jeremy


I speak with Jeremy. I have always watching this thread. I have and idea of how earthboxes and growboxes work, hempy buckets work. 

a pvc frame sounds good.. 

I wonder what the bouyancy will be with the water and growstones.

How will this effect the netpots.


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 12, 2017)

hyroot said:


> The whole point of no till and knf aside from being organic is to use whats around you ( sustainable practices). DEM uses a lot of fillers in their nutrient line. Results are not the greatest. Rootwise is good for their phos solubilzer microbes. You definitely need more microbes than that provides. You want your soil to be 33% worm castings. KNF / jadam ferments will only improve your terps (brix levels) and yield and make plants more pest resistant. Then you have the best of both worlds aerobic and anaerobic beneficial microbes. Not just the facultative microbes.


what fillers.


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 12, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> what fillers.


@hyroot 

  

As stated I have been working with a few companies. everything is not stated. Got to leave somethings out


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## hyroot (Oct 12, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> what fillers.


leaves mostly


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 12, 2017)

hyroot said:


> leaves mostly


your mix

per cubic foot
1/2 cup kelp meal
1/2 cup crab shell meal
1/4 cup ahimsa indian neem cake
1/4 cup karanja cake
1/2 cup malted barley seed
2 cups basalt rock dust
2 cups gypsum rock dust
1/2 cup em1 bokashi or grok

How do you "know" what or how they mix it at or even at what ratios. 

Anyhow this is not about that.


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## hyroot (Oct 12, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> your mix
> 
> per cubic foot
> 1/2 cup kelp meal
> ...



Well I learned about No Till directly from Clackamas coots, Envocation ( formerly head treep) and Mountain Organics. Plus trial and error. For a while i was using 3/4 cup of crab shell meal per cubic foot. Then went back to 1/2 a cup of crab shell when I added karanja meal to the mix. For a short time I even used fish bone meal too. I've been running no till with variations of this mix for 7 years now. I have 2 batches of soil. . 1 is over 8 years old and the other is 3 years old. I was even recycling my soil for a couple years before I even knew about no till. I've been doing probiotics for a little over 2 years now. Probiotics is no till in conjunction with korean natural farming and jadam natural farming.

Trial and error is the best teacher when it comes to growing.

This soil recipe above minus the liming, karanja and barley is coots original recipe.


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 12, 2017)

I have used dem for years My plants come out Great all the time. WaynesWolrd another online person use that vegan line aswell with stellar results. 

I have made supersoil to before and its fine. 

Point Of No till is to Not have to add.to your crops. THERE is no written rule that says Hi jack I might be in some small whole in the wall were natural things around us are scarce vs I can source the best notil ingredients froma plethora of companies that specialize in notil practices 

I guess companies such "B-u-i-l-d a soil would not exist or redfrog or so many other bio based companies.


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 12, 2017)

hyroot said:


> Well I learned about No Till directly from Clackamas coots, Envocation ( formerly head treep) and Mountain Organics. Plus trial and error. For a while i was using 3/4 cup of crab shell meal per cubic foot. Then went back to 1/2 a cup of crab shell when I added karanja meal to the mix. For a short time I even used fish bone meal too. I've been running no till with variations of this mix for 7 years now. I have 2 batches of soil. . 1 is over 8 years old and the other is 3 years old. I was even recycling my soil for a couple years before I even knew about no till. I've been doing probiotics for a little over 2 years now. Probiotics is no till in conjunction with korean natural farming and jadam natural farming.
> 
> Trial and error is the best teacher when it comes to growing.
> 
> This soil recipe above minus the liming, karanja and barley is coots original recipe.


"I've been doing probiotics for a little over 2 years now. Probiotics is no till in conjunction with korean natural farming and jadam natural farming."

I would incorporate that. with no till and the sips,... I wondering How I will clean the res if the roots find their way there.


----------



## hyroot (Oct 12, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> "I've been doing probiotics for a little over 2 years now. Probiotics is no till in conjunction with korean natural farming and jadam natural farming."
> 
> I would incorporate that. with no till and the sips,... I wondering How I will clean the res if the roots find their way there.


You don't. This isn't hydro with a sterile environment. You're working with living soil. Just add em1 to the resi. You can purchase that from Build A Soil or Teraganix. Make some labs while you use the em1 and when the em1 runs out the labs should be ready. Em1 is labs with other microbes cultured from yeast. Teraganix keeps the exact recipe proprietary.

You won't even be able to access the resi once the bed is full anyway


----------



## Lightgreen2k (Oct 12, 2017)

hyroot said:


> You don't. This isn't hydro with a sterile environment. You're working with living soil. Just add em1 to the resi. You can purchase that from Build A Soil or Teraganix. Make some labs while you use the em1 and when the em1 runs out the labs should be ready. Em1 is labs with other microbes cultured from yeast. Teraganix keeps the exact recipe proprietary.
> 
> You won't even be able to access the resi once the bed is full anyway


Alright I will do this for sure. They also have em5 and a cover crop mix..

 
This will also help to suck and fix soil problems.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 12, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Anything else you might think of. I dont want the netpots to come out or be "pushed" out because of the weight of the soil in the planter. I think the stones in the bottom of the tray will support it. Plus they do wick.


this is partly why i like the inntainer design. It uses the tops of the totes you cut down to form the water rez, to act as a base for the soil to sit on!


----------



## Lightgreen2k (Oct 12, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> this is partly why i like the inntainer design. It uses the tops of the totes you cut down to form the water rez, to act as a base for the soil to sit on!


I know that design well as it is similar too a growbox..and earthbox.

The weight growstones, in the tray should be enough. The flood tray Im gettig is low tide one. More like a giant saucer. 4 inches and net pots 3.


----------



## CollieWeed (Oct 12, 2017)

Really Guys? 



ttystikk said:


> Grow stones won't wick any more than hydroton will.
> 
> QUOTE="greg nr, post: 13786687, member: 958284"]So are you believing an email or your own lying eyes?





hyroot said:


> Yes grow stones will wick. Yes they will support the weight. If the tray was empty you could make a pvc frame to support the weight. That's what I do in my octo pot style sips. The grow stone method has been working pretty good for Jeremy


----------



## Lightgreen2k (Oct 12, 2017)

CollieWeed said:


> Really Guys?


what are you asking or making that emoji for..

Do you even use growstones sir..

If you dont use them or if they are Not local its not worth it. They cost more to ship as Freight then actual product.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 12, 2017)

i have never used them.. (had to look them up lol) sounds like a decent sub for perlite in soil.. you are using that in your rez so its kinda like a hempy?


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## CollieWeed (Oct 12, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> what are you asking or making that emoji for..
> 
> Do you even use growstones sir..
> 
> If you dont use them or if they are Not local its not worth it. They cost more to ship as Freight then actual product.


Yes, they are local, HD and Lowe's carry them here,



meangreengrowinmachine said:


> i have never used them.. (had to look them up lol) sounds like a decent sub for perlite in soil.. you are using that in your rez so its kinda like a hempy?


I use them in my net pot as wicking in a 5 gallon sip container,


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 12, 2017)

CollieWeed said:


> Really Guys?


I bet if you took your wick apart carefully you'd find that the plant's roots are doing the wicking, not the stones.


----------



## Lightgreen2k (Oct 12, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I bet if you took your wick apart carefully you'd find that the plant's roots are doing the wicking, not the stones.


Yup. Plants are just like trees. A tree planted close to a river, stream lake will use capillary action.


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## hyroot (Oct 14, 2017)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BaNrQa9nrUY/


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## Tim Fox (Oct 14, 2017)

hyroot said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/BaNrQa9nrUY/


i went to build a soil web page and found the soma sip, but there really arnt any pictures that show how it wicks,, and how is that huge fabric soil container held up above the res?,, also 420 dollars?,, 420 hahahaha,, for real?


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## hyroot (Oct 14, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> i went to build a soil web page and found the soma sip, but there really arnt any pictures that show how it wicks,, and how is that huge fabric soil container held up above the res?,, also 420 dollars?,, 420 hahahaha,, for real?


The resi is filled with grow stones for support and wicking. The resi is always full wicking through the center. Eventually the roots grow through the fabric into the resi.

I'd get a 4x4 bed from grass roots fabric pots. - $80

Tray from local hydro shop - 80.

Net trellis from local shop- $15

Pvc from home deps - $15

Lave rock or Riverstone from home deps - $5 per cubic foot x 6 = $33 after tax.

$225 total (rounded up)

I'm going to swap each 4x4 area to those beds each round. So in 8 months my whole room should be converted to those. Starting with my testing tent for my genetics.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 14, 2017)

hyroot said:


> The resi is filled with grow stones for support and wicking. The resi is always full wicking through the center. Eventually the roots grow through the fabric into the resi.
> 
> I'd get a 4x4 bed from grass roots fabric pots. - $80
> 
> ...


isnt the capacity in gallons something like 33 ?,,, i wonder what it drops down to with the grow stones filling the space?


----------



## hyroot (Oct 14, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> isnt the capacity in gallons something like 33 ?,,, i wonder what it drops down to with the grow stones filling the space?


In other videos Jeremy said his kit comes with 6 cubic feet of grow stones.

A cubic foot is 7.5 gallons..


----------



## Lightgreen2k (Oct 14, 2017)

hyroot said:


> In other videos Jeremy said his kit comes with 6 cubic feet of grow stones.
> 
> A cubic foot is 7.5 gallons..


GROW stones are expensive
Each bag is 1.5 cubic feet.


----------



## Tim Fox (Oct 14, 2017)

i am finding a hard time figuring out what the benefit of this type of sip is?


----------



## neroceasar (Oct 14, 2017)

NICE! gone for a week, the thread blows up and hyroot makes an appearance! @hyroot do you think the current CC mix would work good in a sip? and if your going to the pumice wick method, and everything stays uniformly wet, are you still top dressing and feeding your FPE by watering in?


----------



## Lightgreen2k (Oct 14, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> i am finding a hard time figuring out what the benefit of this type of sip is?


Give me a few weeks. We shall see.


----------



## hyroot (Oct 14, 2017)

neroceasar said:


> NICE! gone for a week, the thread blows up and hyroot makes an appearance! @hyroot do you think the current CC mix would work good in a sip? and if your going to the pumice wick method, and everything stays uniformly wet, are you still top dressing and feeding your FPE by watering in?


Yes I've been using coots soil recipe in sips since day 1. I topdress every other round. I top feed every 4 days. Each time plain water , then sst, then ferments. I fill up the resi once a week with water and splash of labs.

Fabric pot sips the top layer tends to dry out. Even with cover crops


----------



## Tim Fox (Oct 14, 2017)

neroceasar said:


> NICE! gone for a week, the thread blows up and hyroot makes an appearance! @hyroot do you think the current CC mix would work good in a sip? and if your going to the pumice wick method, and everything stays uniformly wet, are you still top dressing and feeding your FPE by watering in?


a week?,,, never seen you


----------



## Tim Fox (Oct 14, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Give me a few weeks. We shall see.


well all sips perform as they should if set up right,,, so i have no doubts about that


----------



## neroceasar (Oct 14, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> a week?,,, never seen you


guess i'm too incognito! lol. been following for a while, preparing whilst doing coot's no till. posted a few posts on the 5th? 


hyroot said:


> Yes I've been using coots soil recipe in sips since day 1. I topdress every other round. I top feed every 4 days. Each time plain water , then sst, then ferments. I fill up the resi once a week with water and splash of labs.
> Fabric pot sips the top layer tends to dry out. Even with cover crops


good to know


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 16, 2017)

huh the coots recipe (if i found the right one) seems pretty simple. I am using it with a few more amendments.. are they needed? maybe not but seems to work great!


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 16, 2017)

compost, perlite, homemade ewc, kelp, neem, organic tomato tone, rock dust, lime, crabmeal, azomite, alfalfa meal....that be my recipe. I also make ewc tea and top dress with that from time to time, maybe add some cal mag to the res... I have about but not gotten into fermented teas as of yet.. do they make that large of an impact on your soil web?


----------



## neroceasar (Oct 17, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I have about but not gotten into fermented teas as of yet.. do they make that large of an impact on your soil web?


kevin Jodrey sure seams to like em. He's been promoting them at alot of his more recent events. Of the plants i've seen(online) in grokashi, the ones he had looked best.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 17, 2017)

neroceasar said:


> kevin Jodrey sure seams to like em. He's been promoting them at alot of his more recent events. Of the plants i've seen(online) in grokashi, the ones he had looked best.


any links or threads on RIU you can recommend to get me started?


----------



## neroceasar (Oct 18, 2017)

https://www.rollitup.org/t/hyroots-garden.841336/
Hyroot detailed it in his old thread and his new organic thread(a lil)but if your looking for the basics layed out simple n easy look up the unconventional farmer. Has a page and videos on it.


----------



## keepsake (Oct 25, 2017)

Can someone confirm how much soil this sip box holds?

http://www.agardenpatch.com

Does it hold a big enough amount to do no till with 2 plants?


----------



## Lightgreen2k (Oct 26, 2017)

keepsake said:


> Can someone confirm how much soil this sip box holds?
> 
> http://www.agardenpatch.com
> 
> Does it hold a big enough amount to do no till with 2 plants?


You should have given us the measurements.. 

Anyhow Length x width x height ÷ 1728 
Will give you the cubic feet..

28 x 14 x 12 = 4704
4704 ÷ 1728 = 2.7

Almost 3 cubic feet of dirt.. or 20 gallons of soil. This seems about right as they have a 4 gallon reservoir..


----------



## Tim Fox (Oct 26, 2017)

keepsake said:


> Can someone confirm how much soil this sip box holds?
> 
> http://www.agardenpatch.com
> 
> Does it hold a big enough amount to do no till with 2 plants?


DUDE thats the same SIP i am growing with,, it holds a Whole bag of soil 1.5 cubic feet, like a full size fox farms ocean forrest,, and yes it will hold 2 plants easy,,, i did 2 plants last run in my earthbox , pile the soil up on that thing,, above the top rim,, and cover with the fabric or a plastic trash bag,, the 4 gallon res is so good to have


----------



## Lightgreen2k (Oct 26, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> DUDE thats the same SIP i am growing with,, it holds a Whole bag of soil 1.5 cubic feet, like a full size fox farms ocean forrest,, and yes it will hold 2 plants easy,,, i did 2 plants last run in my earthbox , pile the soil up on that thing,, above the top rim,, and cover with the fabric or a plastic trash bag,, the 4 gallon res is so good to have


Yeah this one is the growbox. Similar to the earthbox. When you filled you box with ocean forest bag, what size are your plants going in.


----------



## Tim Fox (Oct 26, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Yeah this one is the growbox. Similar to the earthbox. When you filled you box with ocean forest bag, what size are your plants going in.


yup,, i own both, and have done mJ grows in both the growbox and the earthbox,, they both work fantastic for growing weed,, but i prefer the larger res in the growbox, on my previous sip grows in the sips i purchased clones that were about 6 to 8 in inches tall,, if you are doing seeds,, i would start germinate them using your prefered method then grow them in a small 4 inch container till a small healthy plant,, with some roots,, then stick it right into the sip,,


----------



## keepsake (Oct 26, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> DUDE thats the same SIP i am growing with,, it holds a Whole bag of soil 1.5 cubic feet, like a full size fox farms ocean forrest,, and yes it will hold 2 plants easy,,, i did 2 plants last run in my earthbox , pile the soil up on that thing,, above the top rim,, and cover with the fabric or a plastic trash bag,, the 4 gallon res is so good to have


Have you tried no till in this grow box?
I'd like to re amend after harvest and plant seeds directly in there again next to the old rootball. 

Think it'll work?


----------



## Tim Fox (Oct 26, 2017)

keepsake said:


> Have you tried no till in this grow box?
> I'd like to re amend after harvest and plant seeds directly in there again next to the old rootball.
> 
> Think it'll work?


sure you can no till these boxes,, i would remove the top cover plastic ,,, dig into the dirt upper layers, and if you follow the earthbox re use instructions 



 a few of us are using the "trench" method of supplying dry organic nutes,, by trenching a few feeder roots find the trench and pull nutes as needed, but unless you were providing live worms or some other method to keep the soil re generating,, you will need to get new nutes in the soil somehow,,


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 26, 2017)

looking to re plant in my sips and hoping i dont have to start over.... this is encouraging


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 26, 2017)

but i use nothing synthetic so i think using my amendments and castings ... need to make me a leaf mold bin as well it sounds like... i have a ton working outside but that will take a few years i hear.


----------



## Tim Fox (Oct 26, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> but i use nothing synthetic so i think using my amendments and castings ... need to make me a leaf mold bin as well it sounds like... i have a ton working outside but that will take a few years i hear.


Yes amending with no till items is needed but the tilling takes place outside the sip and then the soil is placed back in or take a portion out mix in the new stuff you made and go again reusing the soik is perfect


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## Tim Fox (Oct 26, 2017)

I take the easy road and dump the old soil in my wife's garden , but now we are building raised beds so it's perfect for that but re amending and replanting is so good


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## keepsake (Oct 26, 2017)

https://www.homedepot.com/p/CITY-PICKERS-24-5-in-x-20-5-in-Patio-Raised-Garden-Bed-Grow-Box-Kit-with-Watering-System-and-Casters-in-Terra-Cotta-2340D/202563845

This one holds even more soil but only 2 gal of water.

pros and cons?


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## Tim Fox (Oct 27, 2017)

keepsake said:


> https://www.homedepot.com/p/CITY-PICKERS-24-5-in-x-20-5-in-Patio-Raised-Garden-Bed-Grow-Box-Kit-with-Watering-System-and-Casters-in-Terra-Cotta-2340D/202563845
> 
> This one holds even more soil but only 2 gal of water.
> 
> pros and cons?


That's a good sip, most of us build or buy based on shape and size for our grow space


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## Lightgreen2k (Oct 27, 2017)

So my little project is almost complete.

A few pics.. feed tube / res 


That planter holds 100 gallons of soil / media max...


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## Humanrob (Oct 29, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> So my little project is almost complete.
> 
> A few pics.. feed tube / resView attachment 4033902 View attachment 4033903
> View attachment 4033899
> ...


I look forward to seeing it complete!


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## Lightgreen2k (Nov 2, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I look forward to seeing it complete!


@Tim Fox


----------



## Lightgreen2k (Nov 2, 2017)




----------



## Lightgreen2k (Nov 2, 2017)




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## Tim Fox (Nov 2, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> View attachment 4036731
> View attachment 4036732


i swear i need a bigger garage,,, nice organization,, i have a buddy who is into that 3D printing,, do you enjoy it,, have you made anything cool?,,, huge sip man,, cant wait to see it full of plants


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## Lightgreen2k (Nov 2, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> i swear i need a bigger garage,,, nice organization,, i have a buddy who is into that 3D printing,, do you enjoy it,, have you made anything cool?,,, huge sip man,, cant wait to see it full of plants


3d printer is good for nick nacks and small visual ideas. Made nothing cool for real. 

I Just want it to work properly and taking my time with this too. 

With a Sip this large Im wondeing if I should build a trench or ammend the soil.


----------



## Tim Fox (Nov 2, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> 3d printer is good for nick nacks and small visual ideas. Made nothing cool for real.
> 
> I Just want it to work properly and taking my time with this too.
> 
> With a Sip this large Im wondeing if I should build a trench or ammend the soil.


Yes i would do either, a sip that big your going to need some good dry nutes , plenty of ways to go , bagged stuff or buildasoil or your own creation ,


----------



## Lightgreen2k (Nov 2, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Yes i would do either, a sip that big your going to need some good dry nutes , plenty of ways to go , bagged stuff or buildasoil or your own creation ,


Jeremey at buildasoil should be on this forum. This the largest sip thread from time.

I plan to get somestuff from Bas and a couple of other places. 

Still thinking if i should put

9 or 12 or 16 plants in this planter. Think of it like this, the planter it's self can hold a total volume of 100 gallons. I'm going for 80 gallons with room for the top and mulch.

80 ÷ 16 = 5 gallons of soil per plant about. However its in a bed so it is really more. 

I might even go 90 gallons of soil come to think of it..


----------



## Tim Fox (Nov 2, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Jeremey at buildasoil should be on this forum. This the largest sip thread from time.
> 
> I plan to get somestuff from Bas and a couple of other places.
> 
> ...


Is your sip going to be in the middle of a room so you can walk around it and access the back side? These things grow monsters, and lots of sucker limbs , you will need lots of access


----------



## Humanrob (Nov 2, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> I might even go 90 gallons of soil come to think of it..


Have you calculated the total weight of this project? First, you have to remember that you are going to drench the soil, and that through wicking it is going to stay pretty wet (at least the bottom 2/3's of the container, and then varying degrees dryer above that). I'm not sure what a "gallon" of wet soil weighs, water is 8.43lbs/gallon, and I think wet soil is denser than water alone so I imagine it would weigh even more. But as an example, at 8lbs per gallon 90 gallons of WET soil is 720lbs. And that does not include the weight of your res. That is a lot of structural force to be working with -- pushing both down and out. I don't doubt your ingenuity or ability to fabricate things, I just hope your engineering background is taking this all into account. Even if I'm off by a large factor, at half that weight -- 360lbs. -- that's a force to be reckoned with.


----------



## Lightgreen2k (Nov 2, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> Is your sip going to be in the middle of a room so you can walk around it and access the back side? These things grow monsters, and lots of sucker limbs , you will need lots of access


I will have access to the sides of sip and front.

Still tinkering a bit.

I will say this, I have been training my plants in 3 gallons /lst / topping/ perhaps 15 inches. 
I know this system will grow trees (redwood) huge.. So i have a two tier tellis system set up. Also I have 10 foot ceilings..


----------



## Lightgreen2k (Nov 2, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Have you calculated the total weight of this project? First, you have to remember that you are going to drench the soil, and that through wicking it is going to stay pretty wet (at least the bottom 2/3's of the container, and then varying degrees dryer above that). I'm not sure what a "gallon" of wet soil weighs, water is 8.43lbs/gallon, and I think wet soil is denser than water alone so I imagine it would weigh even more. But as an example, at 8lbs per gallon 90 gallons of WET soil is 720lbs. And that does not include the weight of your res. That is a lot of structural force to be working with -- pushing both down and out. I don't doubt your ingenuity or ability to fabricate things, I just hope your engineering background is taking this all into account. Even if I'm off by a large factor, at half that weight -- 360lbs. -- that's a force to be reckoned with.


Thanks for that.

Few things the planter fits on top of the ress. At worst even if it where to sink in, it would act as a big saucer. 

However the growstone act like "lava rocks" and fill up a space densely.

Second water adds bouyancy. 

Last I can just set it up as a normal raised bed.

So even before buildasoil was uploading videos him and I had been in contact. 

Here is an idea of my end product, we both have used similar calculations (minor things switched here and there).

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZi-rL9HdZV/

Tell me what you think..


----------



## Humanrob (Nov 2, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> Few things the planter fits on top of the ress. At worst even if it where to sink in, it would act as a big saucer.
> 
> ...


Cool, nice to see it's been through a proof of concept. Looks like you have it figured out, I'm still looking forward to seeing it in action.


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## Lightgreen2k (Nov 2, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Cool, nice to see it's been through a proof of concept. Looks like you have it figured out, I'm still looking forward to seeing it in action.


I hope you got a second to look at the link I sent You.


----------



## Tim Fox (Nov 2, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> Few things the planter fits on top of the ress. At worst even if it where to sink in, it would act as a big saucer.
> 
> ...


I watched the video in the link cool Man


----------



## Humanrob (Nov 2, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> I hope you got a second to look at the link I sent You.


I did see the short video, but it doesn't show the full build. I'm looking forward to seeing it from the ground up.


----------



## Lightgreen2k (Nov 2, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I did see the short video, but it doesn't show the full build. I'm looking forward to seeing it from the ground up.





Humanrob said:


> I did see the short video, but it doesn't show the full build. I'm looking forward to seeing it from the ground up.


I know. Its to short but the design with mine should show more as we go along.


----------



## PDX Joe (Nov 2, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> Have you calculated the total weight of this project? First, you have to remember that you are going to drench the soil, and that through wicking it is going to stay pretty wet (at least the bottom 2/3's of the container, and then varying degrees dryer above that). I'm not sure what a "gallon" of wet soil weighs, water is 8.43lbs/gallon, and I think wet soil is denser than water alone so I imagine it would weigh even more. But as an example, at 8lbs per gallon 90 gallons of WET soil is 720lbs. And that does not include the weight of your res. That is a lot of structural force to be working with -- pushing both down and out. I don't doubt your ingenuity or ability to fabricate things, I just hope your engineering background is taking this all into account. Even if I'm off by a large factor, at half that weight -- 360lbs. -- that's a force to be reckoned with.


Good point. Don't put it on the second floor!


----------



## PDX Joe (Nov 2, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> @Tim Fox
> 
> View attachment 4036723
> View attachment 4036724
> View attachment 4036726


I like your workshop. Very organized!


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## Lightgreen2k (Nov 3, 2017)

I was just looking at another thread. This might help to take out the guess work on soil toxicity levels are..

https://www.spectrumanalytic.com/


----------



## Lightgreen2k (Nov 3, 2017)

Im going to make half a gallon of my soil and probably get one of these places to test my soil. Hopefully I get it right the first time around..


----------



## Lightgreen2k (Nov 3, 2017)

I can do this .


----------



## Lightgreen2k (Nov 7, 2017)

I have my mulch and cover crop..


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Nov 16, 2017)

looking to purchase some timber grow lights kit... what K COBS you all running straight 3500K on all? thanks!!


----------



## HydoDan (Nov 16, 2017)

Yeah most guys are running 35k for veg and flower... 30k for flower only..


----------



## Humanrob (Nov 16, 2017)

I've done some runs at 4000k only start to finish, I was very happy with the results but I've never done a comparison so I'm not sure what the plants would have looked like under different lights. In my newer tent I'm doing a 1/3- 4000k 2/3s- 3500k mix. They are on separate switches so I veg with 4k and flower with both. I like vegging with 4's, keeps the plants more compact.


----------



## keepsake (Nov 17, 2017)

I've read that having some 4k-6k lights during flower can increase frost. Who knows.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 17, 2017)

keepsake said:


> I've read that having some 4k-6k lights during flower can increase frost. Who knows.


Go with T5 UVA/UVB instead. You'll like they way they look.


----------



## chakup (Nov 17, 2017)

Or 10k CMH the last two weeks


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Nov 17, 2017)

I am a total noob to LEDs (I HAVE however watched and re watched nearly all of Growmau5's you tube vids) I decided to just go with an easy 3500K set up for now and see how it goes. thanks for all the input though!


----------



## Tim Fox (Nov 17, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I am a total noob to LEDs (I HAVE however watched and re watched nearly all of Growmau5's you tube vids) I decided to just go with an easy 3500K set up for now and see how it goes. thanks for all the input though!


i have done 3000 start to finish,, and 4000 start to finish,, cant say i noticed any differance in the plants,,, those timber kits are outstanding,, you will love them


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## Tim Fox (Nov 20, 2017)

time to dump the ole dirt out of my sip from the tomato grow last summer,, i hav my light upgrade almost done,, starting my next sip grow right after christmas


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Nov 20, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> time to dump the ole dirt out of my sip from the tomato grow last summer,, i hav my light upgrade almost done,, starting my next sip grow right after christmas


I need to start reamending and cooking soil too! and get sht cleaned up and ready to go for another run. Looking to upgrade my lighting set up gradually... atm I have a 600 watt hood, will be adding the 250 3500k 5 cob to there as well.. I think my plan is going to be to set it up as just a straight bar and use it in addition to the 600, eventually I will buy 2 more (enough?) and then have a total of 15 COBS 750 watts in this will be just in flower. Veg currently is just floro and seems to work ok. aaaaaah long term plans lol


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## Tim Fox (Nov 20, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I need to start reamending and cooking soil too! and get sht cleaned up and ready to go for another run. Looking to upgrade my lighting set up gradually... atm I have a 600 watt hood, will be adding the 250 3500k 5 cob to there as well.. I think my plan is going to be to set it up as just a straight bar and use it in addition to the 600, eventually I will buy 2 more (enough?) and then have a total of 15 COBS 750 watts in this will be just in flower. Veg currently is just floro and seems to work ok. aaaaaah long term plans lol


how many watts per square foot do you think you will be running on your next grow?


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## Humanrob (Nov 20, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> time to dump the ole dirt out of my sip from the tomato grow last summer,, i hav my light upgrade almost done,, starting my next sip grow right after christmas


It always makes me nervous to bring things from outside into my tent, do you do anything special to clean it up?

I always had gnat problems when I grew in the house, haven't had any since growing in the garage. As I was sitting here on my computer the other evening killing gnats, I realized they are here because my wife puts all the house plants outside during the summer, and then brings them back in for the winter... the plants, and all the bugs living in the soil.


----------



## Humanrob (Nov 20, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I need to start reamending and cooking soil too! and get sht cleaned up and ready to go for another run. Looking to upgrade my lighting set up gradually... atm I have a 600 watt hood, will be adding the 250 3500k 5 cob to there as well.. I think my plan is going to be to set it up as just a straight bar and use it in addition to the 600, eventually I will buy 2 more (enough?) and then have a total of 15 COBS 750 watts in this will be just in flower. Veg currently is just floro and seems to work ok. aaaaaah long term plans lol


How big is your grow space?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Nov 20, 2017)

With the 600 hps and the 250 watt bar int he 5x5 it will be 34 watts per square foot... I know comparing LED and HPS by watts though is not really apples to apples. Eventually the goal is 750 of all LED with 15 cobs in a 5x5... is that enough or do i need to go 4 bars?


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## Tim Fox (Nov 20, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> It always makes me nervous to bring things from outside into my tent, do you do anything special to clean it up?
> 
> I always had gnat problems when I grew in the house, haven't had any since growing in the garage. As I was sitting here on my computer the other evening killing gnats, I realized they are here because my wife puts all the house plants outside during the summer, and then brings them back in for the winter... the plants, and all the bugs living in the soil.


only thing coming into the grow cab is the plastic box,,, i will dump the old dirt in my wifes outside garden,, wash the sip plastic,, and put new bagged soil along with the tomato tone dry organic fert i am going to try this time


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## Tim Fox (Nov 20, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> With the 600 hps and the 250 watt bar int he 5x5 it will be 34 watts per square foot... I know comparing LED and HPS by watts though is not really apples to apples. Eventually the goal is 750 of all LED with 15 cobs in a 5x5... is that enough or do i need to go 4 bars?


on my next grow,, if i turn the light panel up to full power,, i will be trying 54 watts per square foot of cob,,, we will see if the plants can take full power or not


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## Humanrob (Nov 20, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> With the 600 hps and the 250 watt bar int he 5x5 it will be 34 watts per square foot... I know comparing LED and HPS by watts though is not really apples to apples. Eventually the goal is 750 of all LED with 15 cobs in a 5x5... is that enough or do i need to go 4 bars?


I've only used an HPS a few times, but I was trying to figure out what is considered the optimal w/sf is with them. In a 3x3 600w = 66.6w/sf., 1000w in a 4x4 = 62.5w/sf -- so if those are common configurations then say around 64w/sf would be normal? COBs are still new enough that there don't seem to be norms yet, I think a lot depends on your grow style. Hydro guys (who know what they are doing) seem to be able to get away with things soil guys can't, I think, in terms of how much light they put down. 

One "happy place" seems to be 37.5w/sf with COBs. Some guys grow below 30w/sf, and many will say 50w/sf is a safe ceiling. That's what I've read on here, and it matches my experience. At 37.5w/sf I always had very healthy easy to grow plants. At 50w/sf and up, I had bigger denser buds but it took more attention and managing them to keep them healthy (more cal-mag, etc).

Last winter I totally overdid it, and put a 600w HPS in a 3x3, and then added two Optic 120's for an additional 240w of COBs. I also "experimented" with lots of nutes. The combination created massive buds so dense they mutated and rotted in the middle. There definitely is such a thing as "too much of a good thing".



Tim Fox said:


> only thing coming into the grow cab is the plastic box,,, i will dump the old dirt in my wifes outside garden,, wash the sip plastic,, and put new bagged soil along with the tomato tone dry organic fert i am going to try this time


I'm paranoid, so I'd wash the plastic down with H2O2 and the rinse it off real well. But you've done this before, so I know you know what you're doing. 

Thanks for reminding me -- this would be a good time to start that experiment where I mix some dolomite lime in with soil, wet it, and let it sit for 90 days so that when I mix that into the SIP soil it's already broken down and ready to use.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 20, 2017)

Humanrob said:


> I've only used an HPS a few times, but I was trying to figure out what is considered the optimal w/sf is with them. In a 3x3 600w = 66.6w/sf., 1000w in a 4x4 = 62.5w/sf -- so if those are common configurations than say around 64w/sf would be normal? COBs are still new enough that there don't seem to be norms yet, I think a lot depends on your grow style. Hydro guys (who know what they are doing) seem to be able to get away with things soil guys can't, I think, in terms of how much light they put down.
> 
> One "happy place" seems to be 37.5w/sf with COBs. Some guys grow below 30w/sf, and many will say 50w/sf is a safe ceiling. That's what I've read on here, and it matches my experience. At 37.5w/sf I always had very healthy easy to grow plants. At 50w/sf and up, I had bigger denser buds but it took more attention and managing them to keep them healthy (more cal-mag, etc).
> 
> ...


i am always happy to read about past experiences in this thread,, and how it helps going forward, i was so happy with the auto grow last summer, that i want to emply the same soil nute mix with my photos and the bigger sip,, your right the dimmer may come into play , the only strain i have grown that did not like the power of the cobs early in life was the Sour Diesel,, but i did not have dimmers back then, and my only option was to switch of single cobs or raise the light, now that i have dimming, it will be a differant story,


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## Ryan N Shoffner (Nov 29, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Thanks
> 
> I only have time to hit the ground running persay.
> dragonfly earth medicine has a great veganic line. Rootwise is good for microbes an mycorrhizae and a there are a couple of good compost tea companies out their. People may say they make great stuff. Sure fine however much of these things have been sourced.


Im using dragonfly earth nedicine but wanting to use sip my next grow. Hiw would i feed the tea to the plants if theyre in a sip?


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## Tim Fox (Nov 29, 2017)

Ryan N Shoffner said:


> Im using dragonfly earth nedicine but wanting to use sip my next grow. Hiw would i feed the tea to the plants if theyre in a sip?


pour it right into the Res


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## Ryan N Shoffner (Nov 29, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> pour it right into the Res


I thought you werent supposed to put anything organic in the res or it would become anaerobic.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 29, 2017)

Ryan N Shoffner said:


> I thought you werent supposed to put anything organic in the res or it would become anaerobic.


well on my last sip grow i was dumping organic Big Bloom liquid nute to my res,,, and cal mag to my res,, i know capt puts organic liquid nutes in his res on the octopots every grow, have not had any problems


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## Ryan N Shoffner (Nov 29, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> well on my last sip grow i was dumping organic Big Bloom liquid nute to my res,,, and cal mag to my res,, i know capt puts organic liquid nutes in his res on the octopots every grow, have not had any problems


 its not the same.
Dragonfly earth medicine is brewed with earthworm castings so it would go anaerobic in the res


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## Tim Fox (Nov 29, 2017)

cant you just toss an airstone in the res to keep the oxygen going? @Ryan N Shoffner


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## Tim Fox (Nov 29, 2017)

or if its bacteria you dont want , toss that stuff in the res that knocks it back down,, i have never used it, but hey, i dont top water,, my soil is ramped up it goes the whole ride without adding now


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## Lightgreen2k (Nov 29, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> cant you just toss an airstone in the res to keep the oxygen going? @Ryan N Shoffner


Lol.

It would be hard to put an airstone in the sip and maintian it.
@Ryan N Shoffner

How big is the sip you want.
What is your Ig name if you are on it.


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## Ryan N Shoffner (Nov 29, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Lol.
> 
> It would be hard to put an airstone in the sip and maintian it.
> @Ryan N Shoffner
> ...


I ordered an earthbox already. Its 17 gallon


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## Tim Fox (Nov 29, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Lol.
> 
> It would be hard to put an airstone in the sip and maintian it.
> @Ryan N Shoffner
> ...


almost everyone on here puts airstones in thier sips,,


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## Tim Fox (Nov 29, 2017)

Ryan N Shoffner said:


> I ordered an earthbox already. Its 17 gallon


sweet,, i have an earthbox, and a grow box,, same size


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## Ryan N Shoffner (Nov 29, 2017)

Tim Fox said:


> almost everyone on here puts airstones in thier sips,,


Do u have to use a big pump like the one i brew with or xan i use a fish tank pump


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## Tim Fox (Nov 29, 2017)

Ryan N Shoffner said:


> Do u have to use a big pump like the one i brew with or xan i use a fish tank pump


the small pumps are just fine,,, not those big pumps like people use to make teas


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## Lightgreen2k (Nov 29, 2017)

Hmm I dont have an airstone.. How are your girls looking. I'm going go post a pick or two.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 29, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Hmm I dont have an airstone.. How are your girls looking. I'm going go post a pick or two.


the guys who have ran the air stones posted pictures of thier roots in this thread,, you will have to dig back thru the pages,, but the pump res pictures show massive water roots all wrapped around the air stones,, pretty cool


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## Lightgreen2k (Nov 29, 2017)

Adubx x cherry aliendog 
 Flaming Yetti (norcalFireog x loompa og squarred)


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## T-Time (Nov 30, 2017)

I hate my SIP!!!
Since I implemented it in my garden theres almost nothing to do there :/ plants seams to grow and don't need me anymore 








Anybody could help me out. Im looking for a wick size for 11L (3gal) 23cm (9in) tall fabric pots ??


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## pinner420 (Dec 7, 2017)

Building hillbilly octopot tonight pictures of the build to follow... gonna do the 3 gallon for veg. And use an old 27 gallon fir flower. Maybe something smaller.


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## pinner420 (Dec 7, 2017)

5 gallon airpot mounted to 12 gallon tote with 6 inch net pot. 4 inch inspection port. Paint setting up. $18.. 10 minutes to build.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 19, 2017)

pinner420 said:


> 5 gallon airpot mounted to 12 gallon tote with 6 inch net pot. 4 inch inspection port. Paint setting up. $18.. 10 minutes to build.View attachment 4054780 View attachment 4054781 View attachment 4054783


man I hated those air pots when i used them, interesting to see them on a sip.. dont you think the water will evaporate very quickly, and leave the soil more dry then it should be? or you thinking the wicking of the sip will make up for that?


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## pinner420 (Dec 19, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> man I hated those air pots when i used them, interesting to see them on a sip.. dont you think the water will evaporate very quickly, and leave the soil more dry then it should be? or you thinking the wicking of the sip will make up for that?


I did some Kratcky trials in the greenhouse this summer.... im confident it will perform; so im gonna find out. Ill start a thread when i get to it one with tupur and one with bcuzz coco...


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 19, 2017)

cool man! interested to see how they do... i have a bunch in a box ... worst 60 bucks i have ever spent lol


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## pinner420 (Dec 19, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> cool man! interested to see how they do... i have a bunch in a box ... worst 60 bucks i have ever spent lol


Im thinking the sip notion with these should be the ticket. What mix did you dislike when you ran them.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 19, 2017)

I was using soil they were just such a pain to water and so much run off to deal with and dried out VERY fast


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## ttystikk (Dec 19, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I was using soil they were just such a pain to water and so much run off to deal with and dried out VERY fast


Sounds like SIPS would solve those problems.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 19, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Sounds like SIPS would solve those problems.


That it does! (-:


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## Norby Grown (Dec 19, 2017)

Right now I'm using 5 gal buckets and use a drip system connected to my RO tank if I go away for 2-3 days but that's about all I can do before some are over or underwatered. I was thinking of using the Home Depot city pickers grow box and keeping my drip system to fill the reserviors. this way if the res lasts 3-4 days I can set the timer to refill them on day 3 at 1/2gal or more each per day. The drippers have 2 - 1 gal per hour heads. I got thru the first 12 pages and didn't see if anyone had tried something like that yet.
What do y'all think?


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## keepsake (Dec 20, 2017)

What are you guys doing to keep the res from smelling like sewage/rotten eggs?


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## T-Time (Dec 20, 2017)

Any pond zyme should do the trick. I was adding stresszyme once a week + had small pump in the tes flooming the water and no problems throughout the whole grow. 
I only topped the water, didn't even did one res change.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 20, 2017)

i have left my ladies in their sips for 10 days while i was on vacation and they were in flower ( yeah it was a little nerve wrecking) but they were just fine it was awesome! As far as smells from the rez i have never had that issue, some folks use air stones to keep rez from getting nasties in it.


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## PDX Joe (Dec 26, 2017)

I keep my res out of the grow room and in a cool place with airstones. Airstones may or may not be needed. But I have them so I use them.


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## Stikygr33ns (Dec 29, 2017)

Hi im new here. I have a soma sip and everything was going awesome. I just noticed this mold on a stem. Anyone have this happen or know about it?


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## keepsake (Dec 29, 2017)

Stikygr33ns said:


> Hi im new here. I have a soma sip and everything was going awesome. I just noticed this mold on a stem. Anyone have this happen or know about it?


Is that bokashi sprinkled around the base?
I think you're not supposed to have anything touching the base stem except soil.
I recall someone telling me stem rot can occur if something is touching it and is wet.


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## Stikygr33ns (Dec 29, 2017)

Ya it is. I was thinking fight it with good mold. But that makes sense for sure. i put my top dress next to them... I wont put it that close now!. I sprayed with em5 and did a flush of rootwise


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## Lightgreen2k (Dec 30, 2017)

Stikygr33ns said:


> Ya it is. I was thinking fight it with good mold. But that makes sense for sure. i put my top dress next to them... I wont put it that close now!. I sprayed with em5 and did a flush of rootwise


You have to have good airflow.


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## sethimus (Dec 30, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I was using soil they were just such a pain to water and so much run off to deal with and dried out VERY fast


blumats work well with them...


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## Stikygr33ns (Dec 30, 2017)

Lightgreen2k said:


> You have to have good airflow.


I have the tent always sucking air out the top and in through the bottom. With the room at 1500ppm co2 with fresh air coming in.


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## Norby Grown (Jan 3, 2018)

Got 10 grow box's on the way. I am using an amended ffof mix. I added 1/2 cup garden tone and 1/2 plant tone and about 1 cup prilled lime and 1/2cup oyster shell per bag to add some extra nutes in to start. Last batch in 5 gal buckets started to drift in PH to the 6 range or maybe a little less. Was thinking it may have been the sulfur in the tones.
I plan on using the mix for a base and filling in with 1/2ffof and 1/2 happy frog for around the new roots of the replant.
Any suggestions or things I should watch for since I'm using them for the first time? 

http://www.agardenpatch.com/#ordernow

Thanks in advance for any info or tips.


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## Norby Grown (Jan 4, 2018)

Does anyone put down paper towels to line the grow box so the soil mix doesn't fall thru the holes?


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## HydoDan (Jan 4, 2018)

Norby Grown said:


> Does anyone put down paper towels to line the grow box so the soil mix doesn't fall thru the holes?


I used garden fabric but I made mine using a recycled hydro bucket with big holes..


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## Norby Grown (Jan 5, 2018)

Sips came in fed ex last night. Planted today. May cover the tops and add airstones when they go into flower in 2 weeks.


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## Norby Grown (Jan 11, 2018)

Got some roots poking thru. they look to be getting air trimmed. When I put in the airstones I think the roots will grow into the reservior. What ph should you add nutes to the res? Should I just shoot for 6.3? Seems hydroponics uses a lower ph to make it available to the roots? I added amended soil but it'll never take them thru to finish. 

So should I start flowering with adding in ph'd nutes around 6 at hydroponics range or keep it at 6.5ph and it'll get uptake when it hits the soil. Could the roots still drink water at 6.5 in water?


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## kkt3 (Jan 22, 2018)

Hmmmmm, think I’m gonna jump on the sip bandwagon. Took a few days to read the 64 pages. Sure like what I saw. Grow boxes it is!!! What’s the best place to get some in Canada? Close to the Kootenays would be awesome!!!


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## HydoDan (Jan 22, 2018)

I built mine using a 3 gallon bucket inside of a 5 gallon bucket and 4" pvc for a wick... 1 1/2" for the filler tube..
Already had everything so it was free... Just finishing my first run and am pleased with the results.. So easy!


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## Jp.the.pope (Jan 22, 2018)

I would agree with @HydoDan 

I built my own and it's really easy to get the materials. Lots of DIY options to fit any space.


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## kkt3 (Jan 22, 2018)

Thanks guys!! I saw all the diy’s, and they were awesome. I’m gonna certainly give it a try at making some, but I would like to buy a few of the grow boxes anyways.


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## Humanrob (Jan 22, 2018)

kkt3 said:


> Hmmmmm, think I’m gonna jump on the sip bandwagon. Took a few days to read the 64 pages. Sure like what I saw. Grow boxes it is!!! What’s the best place to get some in Canada? Close to the Kootenays would be awesome!!!


I would try to answer your question, but each time I do I get distracted by the woman on the bicycle... damn, what was I saying?


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## kkt3 (Jan 22, 2018)

I hear ya. We like to mountain bike and when I found that pic I couldn’t keep my eyes off of it!!!


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## kkt3 (Jan 24, 2018)

Where can I get some grow boxes in British Columbia?


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## Thai_Lights (Jan 29, 2018)

Sup guys... any of you guys using perlite on the bottom of a rubbermaid tote for a wicking system???


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## greg nr (Jan 29, 2018)

kkt3 said:


> Where can I get some grow boxes in British Columbia?


In the US our big box home improvement stores carry them. Or you can check amazon to see if they carry them in bc.


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## HydoDan (Jan 29, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> Sup guys... any of you guys using perlite on the bottom of a rubbermaid tote for a wicking system???


Not sure perlite will wick well enough, it is used mainly for drainage... I just used potting soil for the wick.. Coir would also work...


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## Thai_Lights (Jan 29, 2018)

Can i just use some amended soil for my wick?


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## HydoDan (Jan 29, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> Can i just use some amended soil for my wick?


Yep!


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## Thai_Lights (Jan 29, 2018)

What growth difference are you seeing with sip pots compared to regular hand watered smart pots


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## Humanrob (Jan 29, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> Can i just use some amended soil for my wick?


My understanding is that you want to keep the water in the res nute-free, so if by "amended" you mean that you've added nutrients to the soil, then I would suggest just using very plain soil in the wick, or as HydoDan said, Coir works also.

If the water gets nutes in it then you need to ph it, and that changes the game. Some people treat the water like hydro and feed through the water, but for me that defeats the purpose since one of the primary benefits of SIPs that I love is that they are inherently simple and low maintenance.


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## Thai_Lights (Jan 29, 2018)

What do you use as a wic?


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## Humanrob (Jan 29, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> What do you use as a wic?


It depends on the size of the pot. Usually I use that corrugated perforated drain pipe used in things like French drains, it is available in different diameters. There are some pictures on the first page of this thread.


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## HydoDan (Jan 29, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> What growth difference are you seeing with sip pots compared to regular hand watered smart pots


Growth is about the same maybe a little faster but not much... I ran three plants in the exact same everything...
One developed a calcium deficiency so I added cal mag to the res... no problems... Didn't experience weak limbs as others described...


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## Thai_Lights (Jan 29, 2018)

HydoDan said:


> Growth is about the same maybe a little faster but not much... I ran three plants in the exact same everything...
> One developed a calcium deficiency so I added cal mag to the res... no problems... Didn't experience weak limbs as others described...


Damn wtf i thougjt that was part of the reason to do a SIP is way faster growth? I guess the only benefit is less water usage?


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## HydoDan (Jan 29, 2018)

I think air stones would make a big difference... This was my first run, I'll do better next time...


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## Lightgreen2k (Jan 29, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> What do you use as a wic?


 This will wick water to plants..If.you have a planter on top.
Growstones


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## Lightgreen2k (Jan 29, 2018)

The long and short of your sip design is to have the water feeding upward to the medium to a certain extent. The total volume of your container is most important when choosing flow.


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## Lightgreen2k (Jan 29, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> Damn wtf i thougjt that was part of the reason to do a SIP is way faster growth? I guess the only benefit is less water usage?


Hmm 

   
You can do a lot in a sip. Lst...


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## Humanrob (Jan 29, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> Damn wtf i thougjt that was part of the reason to do a SIP is way faster growth? I guess the only benefit is less water usage?


I’ve been trying to figure this out for a while. I suspect that individual grow style plays into it. If your habit is to trim hard than you can keep on top of it, if you tend to let your plants grow on the wild side (as I used to) I found they grow a lot more, both leaves and branches. The first time I grew in a sip I compared it to kudzu.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 31, 2018)

Final LST on my mainline plants,, jack herer and space kitties in a GrowBox Sip


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## HydoDan (Jan 31, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> Final LST on my mainline plants,, jack herer and space kitties in a GrowBox SipView attachment 4082279


Nice work!!


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## Thai_Lights (Feb 4, 2018)

Sup fellas...
3 inch pvc with an elbow and perforated tubing with holes on each side then added some rock and placed landscaping fabric over top. This is my first time making a SIP..... you guys have some tips for me? I will be making more pots tomorrow and wouls love to hear how i could make one even better. How far does the water wick into my soil? Do i have to water the top once to saturate soil? Thanks guys


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## Tim Fox (Feb 4, 2018)

Res is filling up with roots, soon the whole res will be a root mass hahaha, canopy is level, 15 tops on jack herer, 8 tops on space kitties, 10 more days of veg


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## keepsake (Feb 10, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> Res is filling up with roots, soon the whole res will be a root mass hahaha, canopy is level, 15 tops on jack herer, 8 tops on space kitties, 10 more days of vegView attachment 4084177 View attachment 4084178 View attachment 4084179 View attachment 4084180


How long have you been vegging that? From seed or clone?


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## Thai_Lights (Feb 10, 2018)

Is it normal for my SIP pots to not saturate the top 2 or 3 inches?,?


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## Tim Fox (Feb 11, 2018)

keepsake said:


> How long have you been vegging that? From seed or clone?


in that photo the plants were are 4 weeks veg
they are from clone


Thai_Lights said:


> Is it normal for my SIP pots to not saturate the top 2 or 3 inches?,?


normal for top few inches to be dry


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## Tim Fox (Feb 15, 2018)

hey guys, 8 days of flower, space kitties on the left, Jack Herer on the right, nugbuckets mainline on the left, and a bit of nebulas mainline on the right, thats a growbox sip with 4 gallon res


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 15, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> hey guys, 8 days of flower, space kitties on the left, Jack Herer on the right, nugbuckets mainline on the left, and a bit of nebulas mainline on the right, thats a growbox sip with 4 gallon resView attachment 4090310


looking nice and trimmed Tim!


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## Tim Fox (Feb 15, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> looking nice and trimmed Tim!


yup, i just didnt want any popcorn or larf this grow, i have jars of that stuff,, so only going for top colas, plus it kept them compact and i have plenty of room for stretch, ,, its been fun doing mainlining, this has to be the most fun i have ever had with a grow, zero issues, Pushing 275 watts from 6 cobs, I have a max of 375 watts of cob power,, dont know if I will be able to dail it all the way up or not,, we shall see


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 16, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> yup, i just didnt want any popcorn or larf this grow, i have jars of that stuff,, so only going for top colas, plus it kept them compact and i have plenty of room for stretch, ,, its been fun doing mainlining, this has to be the most fun i have ever had with a grow, zero issues, Pushing 275 watts from 6 cobs, I have a max of 375 watts of cob power,, dont know if I will be able to dail it all the way up or not,, we shall see


Is this your first Exp. with Main lining? If you have done it before how did you like it? easy to break those steams when they are in the initial tie down stage? I have been looking at it for a while now and think i could work great with SIPS. Gets rid of the "sucker" branches and get you some huge buds.


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## Weedy willy (Feb 18, 2018)

How do you flush the soil in a sip at the end of the grow


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## Tim Fox (Feb 18, 2018)

Weedy willy said:


> How do you flush the soil in a sip at the end of the grow


When a grow is a sip is water only the entire grow , that means we were flushing for the entire grow


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## Weedy willy (Feb 18, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> When a grow is a sip is water only the entire grow , that means we were flushing for the entire grow


There just seems to be a fertilizer taste in the buds


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## Norby Grown (Feb 18, 2018)

Then you overfertilized. You can flush by letting the res dry out and watering thru the top to drip into the res and siphon the water out of the res daily and water the top daily for a week or so if you fertilize that much. Use an airstone so a lot of the roots are in the res. Then you can use more of a hydro system and use just water at the end of the grow. Most of the water will be coming from the res. Where there is a will there is a way it's all about understanding the physics and options.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 18, 2018)

Weedy willy said:


> There just seems to be a fertilizer taste in the buds


But chemicals are not used in sips we use organic and no till soil so there is nothing to flush , how can you have a chemical taste when chemicals were not used?


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## Tim Fox (Feb 18, 2018)

I don't know anyone who uses a soilless medium in a sip , it's possible, but why bother pHing water and measuring ppm and tdds that defeats the whole reason for a sip


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## Weedy willy (Feb 18, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> But chemicals are not used in sips we use organic and no till soil so there is nothing to flush , how can you have a chemical taste when chemicals were not used?


I think I got the soil mix idea from you, it's ffof marine cuisine and happy frog dry ferts mixed in to the soil. I'm guessing I'm tasting left over nitrogen because the leaves don't yellow much


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## Norby Grown (Feb 18, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> I don't know anyone who uses a soilless medium in a sip , it's possible, but why bother pHing water and measuring ppm and tdds that defeats the whole reason for a sip


The whole reason YOU use sips. They are pretty versatile. They can be used any way you can use them if you just want to be able to leave for an extended period. You don't even have to use the reservior unless you are leaving town, You can use them just like a 5 gal bucket and never fill the res if you want week to week feeding control for higher yields.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 18, 2018)

Norby Grown said:


> The whole reason YOU use sips. They are pretty versatile. They can be used any way you can use them if you just want to be able to leave for an extended period. You don't even have to use the reservior unless you are leaving town, You can use them just like a 5 gal bucket and never fill the res if you want week to week feeding control for higher yields.


thanks buddy,, been growing in sips for years now,, love them


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## Thai_Lights (Feb 18, 2018)

I love my sips also I'm like 2 or 3 weeks in the growth is pretty phenomenal for virgin soil.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 18, 2018)

Weedy willy said:


> I think I got the soil mix idea from you, it's ffof marine cuisine and happy frog dry ferts mixed in to the soil. I'm guessing I'm tasting left over nitrogen because the leaves don't yellow much


sounds like a good soil mix,, i wonder if the plants needed to go longer?,,, who knows, glad you made it to harvest


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## Tim Fox (Feb 18, 2018)

Norby Grown said:


> The whole reason YOU use sips. They are pretty versatile. They can be used any way you can use them if you just want to be able to leave for an extended period. You don't even have to use the reservior unless you are leaving town, You can use them just like a 5 gal bucket and never fill the res if you want week to week feeding control for higher yields.


i was wondering what you thought would happen to my water roots if i let the res dry out as you recomend,, it would probably destroy all my hydro roots ,, i kinda want to keep the hydro growth, i think letting the res run dry would certainly kill all my water roots ??


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## Norby Grown (Feb 19, 2018)

Ya, depending if they are growing thru the mesh or all coming out of the columns. If they are touching water they should be able to keep the part in the air alive. If they are thru the column and just lay on the bottom they should be good if you let it get down to 1/4" or less. Not really sure though. Mine poked thru the substrate and grew an inch into the air when the res was closer to full but they died off, never touching water, when the res dropped to 1/4" water. It was more humid with the smaller air gap and dried up with the larger volume of air and less surface area of water in proportion and the tips died. The column roots were good when there was just a layer on the bottom of hte res of water.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 19, 2018)

Norby Grown said:


> Ya, depending if they are growing thru the mesh


these types of sips do not use mesh,,, the earth box and the grow box,, no mesh

these types of sips are designed to have lots and lots of water roots,, the earth box , the grow box and the octopots are hydro/soil hybrids, we count on water roots, and they grow big and lush just like a DWC,, i count on my water roots being alive and healthy and providing hydroponic type growth without the hydro work,, 
my roots are alive and lush and filling the res by the thousands,, and without air strone, 
if i were to let the res run out of water,, or water from the top my plants would suffer really bad
i think we are using 2 differant types of sips


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## Tim Fox (Feb 19, 2018)

Norby Grown said:


> Ya, depending if they are growing thru the mesh or all coming out of the columns. If they are touching water they should be able to keep the part in the air alive. If they are thru the column and just lay on the bottom they should be good if you let it get down to 1/4" or less. Not really sure though. Mine poked thru the substrate and grew an inch into the air when the res was closer to full but they died off, never touching water, when the res dropped to 1/4" water. It was more humid with the smaller air gap and dried up with the larger volume of air and less surface area of water in proportion and the tips died. The column roots were good when there was just a layer on the bottom of hte res of water.


for instance take a look at the octopot sip,,, big time water roots,, without airstones,, and lush and alive in the res,, letting the res run dry would be very detrimental to these plants,,


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## Tim Fox (Feb 19, 2018)

time to vent out, these girls are starting to stink


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## Norby Grown (Feb 19, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> these types of sips do not use mesh,,, the earth box and the grow box,, no mesh
> 
> these types of sips are designed to have lots and lots of water roots,, the earth box , the grow box and the octopots are hydro/soil hybrids, we count on water roots, and they grow big and lush just like a DWC,, i count on my water roots being alive and healthy and providing hydroponic type growth without the hydro work,,
> my roots are alive and lush and filling the res by the thousands,, and without air strone,
> ...


Perforated, mesh whatever. I use the same box. And i've top watered while htere was water in the res. your roots must not have been spread enough or you are using a top to keep it moist up to the top of the soil.


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## Norby Grown (Feb 19, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> for instance take a look at the octopot sip,,, big time water roots,, without airstones,, and lush and alive in the res,, letting the res run dry would be very detrimental to these plants,, View attachment 4092396


Not if there is enough moisture or humidity in the res. running totally dry and letting the media dry would be detrimental. Roots can stay alive in air with the right amount of humidity. It'd be risky and i wouldn't do it if that's what your goal is. Everyone has different goals.


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## Humanrob (Feb 19, 2018)

Norby Grown said:


> your roots must not have been spread enough or you are using a top to keep it moist up to the top of the soil.


Can you elaborate on what you are referring to here? I am using a DIY sip with a fabric pot and no cover over it, I never need to top water, and my res is full of roots... not sure what your "roots must not have been spread enough" or the reference to using a cover ("top"?) to keep it moist -- what impact do you think those things would have?


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## Tim Fox (Feb 19, 2018)

Norby Grown said:


> Not if there is enough moisture or humidity in the res. running totally dry and letting the media dry would be detrimental. Roots can stay alive in air with the right amount of humidity. It'd be risky and i wouldn't do it if that's what your goal is. Everyone has different goals.


Not even sure what you are trying to convey now. I have not asked for any advice, these Earth boxes run on auto pilot, All of my sip grows have gone fantastic with minimal effort and just plain water, I always have water roots and hydro type growth, I will grow this way until the day I die hahaha it's just so darn easy , I havea feeling you were attempting to respond to the guy who wanted to flush , for me flushing is for toilets hahaha I hope your grow is going well


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## Norby Grown (Feb 19, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Can you elaborate on what you are referring to here? I am using a DIY sip with a fabric pot and no cover over it, I never need to top water, and my res is full of roots... not sure what your "roots must not have been spread enough" or the reference to using a cover ("top"?) to keep it moist -- what impact do you think those things would have?
> 
> View attachment 4092517


You can overwater if the roots haven't spread enough in any container. The soil gets too moist, reduces air and drowns" or suffocates the roots. If you leave a top off or don't mulch over your sip the wicking action leaves the top 2-3 inches dry. In my sip you can top water and the excess just flows thru into the res. I'm not sure how your design works and have never tried it so i couldn't elaborate on yours. But my window box type is pretty versatile. You can top water since the top layer dries out and the roots spread into the res so you can see when they have spread thruought and then start top watering.


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## Norby Grown (Feb 19, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> Not even sure what you are trying to convey now. I have not asked for any advice, these Earth boxes run on auto pilot, All of my sip grows have gone fantastic with minimal effort and just plain water, I always have water roots and hydro type growth, I will grow this way until the day I die hahaha it's just so darn easy , I havea feeling you were attempting to respond to the guy who wanted to flush , for me flushing is for toilets hahaha I hope your grow is going well


You quoted me and asked a question from one of my posts and it went on from there. Look up in the thread and you should be able to follow it. Or maybe I was overmedicated adn confused one of the posts.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 19, 2018)

I have never top watered and yes I use a plastic top cover


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## Tim Fox (Feb 19, 2018)

Norby Grown said:


> You quoted me and asked a question from one of my posts and it went on from there. Look up in the thread and you should be able to follow it. Or maybe I was overmedicated adn confused one of the posts.


Medicated is a good thing hahaha I often do that , it's good to have you here


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## Humanrob (Feb 19, 2018)

Norby Grown said:


> You can overwater if the roots haven't spread enough in any container. The soil gets too moist, reduces air and drowns" or suffocates the roots. If you leave a top off or don't mulch over your sip the wicking action leaves the top 2-3 inches dry. In my sip you can top water and the excess just flows thru into the res. I'm not sure how your design works and have never tried it so i couldn't elaborate on yours. But my window box type is pretty versatile. You can top water since the top layer dries out and the roots spread into the res so you can see when they have spread thruought and then start top watering.


If you are following the instructions that come with the commercial sips, then you are "trenching" dry nutes into your soil? The problem with top watering (as I understand it) is that you can wash some of those nutes into the res. Once the res is not water-only, once it has nutes in it then I have been told that changes the game. This goes beyond my practical knowledge because I've never grown in hydro, but I've been told by more experienced growers that once you have nutes in the water then you have to PH the water. If you keep it water only, then you don't have to. 

So I'm also in the 'keep it simple' camp, and I keep my water free of nutes. I have put silica in the res, and on a couple of grows towards the end used Hygrozyme (but I don't know anyone else who's done that). With my set up the soil in the pot is moist up to about 1.5 inches from the top of the pot. I have a good sized wick though, that might be part of it.


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## PDX Joe (Feb 19, 2018)

Just transplanted a Critical Cure and Lemon OG into the SIPs. I’m trying a bit of EM-1 in addition to the bokashi I used last time. I’m curious to see if I get even more mycelium on the top of the compost this time.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 19, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Just transplanted a Critical Cure and Lemon OG into the SIPs. I’m trying a bit of EM-1 in addition to the bokashi I used last time. I’m curious to see if I get even more mycelium on the top of the compost this time. View attachment 4092769


those are beautiful, , how are the converted sips working for you now?


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## Weedy willy (Feb 19, 2018)

Where could I find a super soil recipe for this setup


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## Tim Fox (Feb 19, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Can you elaborate on what you are referring to here? I am using a DIY sip with a fabric pot and no cover over it, I never need to top water, and my res is full of roots... not sure what your "roots must not have been spread enough" or the reference to using a cover ("top"?) to keep it moist -- what impact do you think those things would have?
> 
> View attachment 4092517


Humanrob your lights have gotten really high tech there ,,, looking rad bro


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## PDX Joe (Feb 19, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> those are beautiful, , how are the converted sips working for you now?


They work great. I’m getting good moisture throughout, good wicking. I’m really glad I made the modifications. It will be interesting to see how it works out going from 250 watt light to 440 watt light as well. I got great flowers last time, but looking to up the yield a bit.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 19, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> They work great. I’m getting good moisture throughout, good wicking. I’m really glad I made the modifications. It will be interesting to see how it works out going from 250 watt light to 440 watt light as well. I got great flowers last time, but looking to up the yield a bit.


your packing a little more power than i am,, I built a new cob panel and pushing 375 max in my 3x2


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## PDX Joe (Feb 19, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> your packing a little more power than i am,, I built a new cob panel and pushing 375 max in my 3x2


That should blast them!


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## Tim Fox (Feb 19, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> That should blast them!


Pulling 275 tonight with Thier current health and head room getting less by the inch I may not be able to go full power


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## PDX Joe (Feb 19, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> Pulling 275 tonight with Thier current health and head room getting less by the inch I may not be able to go full power


I’m only running mine at 150 Watts right now. Will probably up it a bit once they’ve settled into the SIPs.


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## Humanrob (Feb 19, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> Humanrob your lights have gotten really high tech there ,,, looking rad bro


Thanks Tim, it's my latest build, I'm getting a little better every time



PDX Joe said:


> I’m only running mine at 150 Watts right now. Will probably up it a bit once they’ve settled into the SIPs.


Joe, that is one clean setup. I just spent a little time in the hospital, and it looks like you could operate in that space! 

I've got a single plant in my 3x3 under 150w for veg also, first time I've ever run just one plant in the tent (and possibly the last). I built the light with three rows of cobs, each with their own switch. Front and back are 3500's, the middle (on now) are 4000k. Originally the 3500's were running at 75w but I dialed them back to 50w, so my max as it's set up now is 350w and I think 39w/sf should be enough for this run. The strain I've got going is a GG4, they don't seem to like too much light or too much nutes.


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## PDX Joe (Feb 19, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Thanks Tim, it's my latest build, I'm getting a little better every time
> 
> 
> Joe, that is one clean setup. I just spent a little time in the hospital, and it looks like you could operate in that space!
> ...


I’m taking the term medical grow very seriously. Hope you’re feeling okay. That’s actually nice the GG4 likes low nutes and lights. Saves a bit of money I suppose. It’s an “efficient” strain.


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## Humanrob (Feb 19, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> I’m taking the term medical grow very seriously. Hope you’re feeling okay.


Thanks, yeah, in and out in one day. HMO's move you through like cattle. But they were very polite about it.



PDX Joe said:


> That’s actually nice the GG4 likes low nutes and lights. Saves a bit of money I suppose. It’s an “efficient” strain.


It is nice, because it saves money on both the lights electrical use and the amount of AC needed to cool the lights. 

I'm leveraging another members experience who has grown GG4 a lot. He had a similar setup to what I'm using this run (a single GG4 in a SIP under COBs, 3x3 tent), and got some amazing results I don't expect to match, but I like to know it's possible.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 27, 2018)

Question for you COB guys on the thread... Currently I have 5 sips vegging under 4 T5 fixtures... total of 240W floro light in an approx. 4' x 7'ish space. This is just my veg stuff. For flower I have been using just a 600 Watt HPS in approx 5.5' x 5.5' space. The plan is to start off by supplementing my HPS with the COB bar (I bought a 250w 5 CXB3590 3500K COB set up and just put all five cobs 12 inches apart on center on one bar) and then eventually buy 2 or 3 more of the same 250w 5 cob set up and then switch to all COBs for flower. My question is should i switch out the floros that are over my sips in veg (I have nothing in flower yet) or is it worth it to try to somehow keep the floros in there AND add the COB bar? I would assume 250W of COBS will far out perform 240 W of floros.... so maybe I Just answered my own stupid question and shouldn't have clogged up the thread... Maybe I'm just excited I am finally starting my COB journey! Feel free to input, tear me apart or troll me to death


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## Humanrob (Feb 27, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Question for you COB guys on the thread... Currently I have 5 sips vegging under 4 T5 fixtures... total of 240W floro light in an approx. 4' x 7'ish space. This is just my veg stuff. For flower I have been using just a 600 Watt HPS in approx 5.5' x 5.5' space. The plan is to start off by supplementing my HPS with the COB bar (I bought a 250w 5 CXB3590 3500K COB set up and just put all five cobs 12 inches apart on center on one bar) and then eventually buy 2 or 3 more of the same 250w 5 cob set up and then switch to all COBs for flower. My question is should i switch out the floros that are over my sips in veg (I have nothing in flower yet) or is it worth it to try to somehow keep the floros in there AND add the COB bar? I would assume 250W of COBS will far out perform 240 W of floros.... so maybe I Just answered my own stupid question and shouldn't have clogged up the thread... Maybe I'm just excited I am finally starting my COB journey! Feel free to input, tear me apart or troll me to death


Congrats on your light evolution! 

First thing that comes to mind is that the COBs and T5s need to be at different distances from the plants, basically I think the T5's would get in the way of the COBs, being below them. I've used COBs as supplemental lighting to HPS, but never fluorescents. 

As far as vegging goes, if you have a designated veg tent and wanted to use COBs, I'd stack it with 4000's. I really like vegging with those because I have limited height in my tents and they really keep the plants tight and low so I can veg longer.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 27, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Congrats on your light evolution!
> 
> First thing that comes to mind is that the COBs and T5s need to be at different distances from the plants, basically I think the T5's would get in the way of the COBs, being below them. I've used COBs as supplemental lighting to HPS, but never fluorescents.
> 
> As far as vegging goes, if you have a designated veg tent and wanted to use COBs, I'd stack it with 4000's. I really like vegging with those because I have limited height in my tents and they really keep the plants tight and low so I can veg longer.


you think its worth taking out the floros for the 3500 COBs? or should i just get the flower room ready for these to move into? Basically I would have one COB over each plant.


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## Humanrob (Feb 27, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> you think its worth taking out the floros for the 3500 COBs? or should i just get the flower room ready for these to move into? Basically I would have one COB over each plant.


It's a little hard for me to picture, but from what you are saying I'd say leave it be, mostly based on coverage -- and that's the part I can't really picture. I would imagine that 5 cobs in one row 12" apart is basically going to cover about an 18" x 72" footprint (depending on how many watts the cobs are running at and how high off the canopy you keep it)... Would that work in your veg room?

Also, keep in mind that changing from floros to cobs mid-grow will take a few days to harden the plants, almost like when you start them indoors and have to harden them under the sun when you move them outdoors.

Edit: I was up way too late last night and I'm having brain fade, sorry if my answers were missing the point... I should probably not operate any heavy machinery or a keyboard... lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 27, 2018)

sounds good thanks for the input man! I'll get some pics up once these start doing things, right now they are just being topped and vegged so boring lol. using 14 gallon intainer design posted far earlier on the thread.


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## Humanrob (Feb 27, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> sounds good thanks for the input man! I'll get some pics up once these start doing things, right now they are just being topped and vegged so boring lol. using 14 gallon intainer design posted far earlier on the thread.


I look forward to seeing the pics, let us know how it goes


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## Tim Fox (Feb 27, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Question for you COB guys on the thread... Currently I have 5 sips vegging under 4 T5 fixtures... total of 240W floro light in an approx. 4' x 7'ish space. This is just my veg stuff. For flower I have been using just a 600 Watt HPS in approx 5.5' x 5.5' space. The plan is to start off by supplementing my HPS with the COB bar (I bought a 250w 5 CXB3590 3500K COB set up and just put all five cobs 12 inches apart on center on one bar) and then eventually buy 2 or 3 more of the same 250w 5 cob set up and then switch to all COBs for flower. My question is should i switch out the floros that are over my sips in veg (I have nothing in flower yet) or is it worth it to try to somehow keep the floros in there AND add the COB bar? I would assume 250W of COBS will far out perform 240 W of floros.... so maybe I Just answered my own stupid question and shouldn't have clogged up the thread... Maybe I'm just excited I am finally starting my COB journey! Feel free to input, tear me apart or troll me to death


welcome to the dark side


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## Tim Fox (Feb 27, 2018)

Sipping along 3 weeks flower


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 27, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> welcome to the dark side


gonna get on this mainling thing too after these are done. Do you know some good strains to run with it? Think I want to order up some new strains soon here.


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## PDX Joe (Feb 27, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> Sipping along 3 weeks flower


Bonsai Master


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## CaptainSnap (Feb 28, 2018)

New SIPS gardener here and thanks to Tim Fox to sharing this thread with me! Easiest way to garden by far and I'm happy to have found a place full of useful information all in one spot. Happy gardening all


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## Tim Fox (Feb 28, 2018)

CaptainSnap said:


> New SIPS gardener here and thanks to Tim Fox to sharing this thread with me! Easiest way to garden by far and I'm happy to have found a place full of useful information all in one spot. Happy gardening all


good to see you here buddy


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 28, 2018)

CaptainSnap said:


> New SIPS gardener here and thanks to Tim Fox to sharing this thread with me! Easiest way to garden by far and I'm happy to have found a place full of useful information all in one spot. Happy gardening all


Welcome! SIPs are by far the easiest way to grow that I have found and you can use all organics and No till and mainlineing all kinds of things can be adapted to SIP's!


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## CaptainSnap (Feb 28, 2018)

Thanks for the friendly welcome MeanGreen!! I can't wait to have the whole garden in sips and all flowering ladies in no till sips containers. I've been practicing organic methods for awhile now and have seen impressive growth already with my first 20 gallon no till sips container. Just flipped this girl this week!! Top dressed with bsf frass, ground oyster/lobster, and ground malted barley.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 28, 2018)

CaptainSnap said:


> Thanks for the friendly welcome MeanGreen!! I can't wait to have the whole garden in sips and all flowering ladies in no till sips containers. I've been practicing organic methods for awhile now and have seen impressive growth already with my first 20 gallon no till sips container. Just flipped this girl this week!! Top dressed with bsf frass, ground oyster/lobster, and ground malted barley.


your soil sounds almost good enough to eat,, hahahah,, good looking plant


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## Humanrob (Feb 28, 2018)

CaptainSnap said:


> Thanks for the friendly welcome MeanGreen!! I can't wait to have the whole garden in sips and all flowering ladies in no till sips containers. I've been practicing organic methods for awhile now and have seen impressive growth already with my first 20 gallon no till sips container. Just flipped this girl this week!! Top dressed with bsf frass, ground oyster/lobster, and ground malted barley.


When you top dress your sip, do you water from the top at that point (at least to wet it down)? This is something I've been considering because I usually top dress my non-sip pots around the beginning of flower, but I haven't been able to figure out if top feeding a sip would be effective. And other than adding nutes to the res, I haven't found a way to freshen up the nutes during a run. 

Usually when I top dress (regular pots) I add additional dry nutes to soil mix I'm laying out, and then subsequently watering through that brings those nutrients into the pot. I suppose with a sip the roots near what was the previous top of the soil line would no longer "air prune" and could continue to grow upward into the fresh added soil mix? Since the top couple of inches of my sip are mostly dry, I'm just not sure how top dressing would help?

For some background, I'm not a no-till soil building guy, I just use a mix of out-of-the-bag FF Ocean Forest and Happy Frog, and I add dry time release nutes to my soil. Lately in my non-sip pots (inspired by the trench in sips) I've been mixing dry nutes in a more concentrated way into the soil in the bottom third of the pot and leaving the upper 2/3's just soil. So far the plants seem to really like that.


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## CaptainSnap (Feb 28, 2018)

Howdy Humanrob!

This is my very first run doing no till and sips gardening. All forced to as a car accident changed what I can handle. I used to do similar style as you. Mix ffof and a cheap organic bag and beefed up the bottom portion on the soil with an all purpose dry fertilizer. Then I got into just reusing my soil and beefing up that soil with all sorts of amendments. I now use this in the bottom half of these 20 gallon sips and then just reuse soil from a previous grow with added compost mixed in for the top half of the no till sips.

I only plan to water from the bottom as long as possible until I see issues. After topdressing I scratched the surface and did a light watering. My top 2 inches is pretty dry so I'm not sure how effective the top dress is but if I see issues I can water with an sst and release those nutrients! Shluby does a similar style but adds worms to the top...he recommended it to me to break down those dry top dressed ferts but I don't think my surface is moist enough to add them!

Time will tell though! I'm sure I'll be making adjustments as time goes on. Hope that all made sense


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## Humanrob (Feb 28, 2018)

CaptainSnap said:


> Time will tell though! I'm sure I'll be making adjustments as time goes on. Hope that all made sense


Yes it did, thanks  I've tried all kinds of things, like putting a length of 2" diameter PVC pipe into my soil, so that I could pour liquid nutes into the pipe and have them be delivered into the middle layer of the sip soil... Not actually sure if that did anything... lol - I "experiment" but don't have a control group for comparison, so it's going to take years of playing around and eventually if I'm lucky I'll develop something like a "gardener's intuition" based on an amalgam of things that seemed to work in the past.

Below are some pics of the one sip I have going this grow. The sip is a DIY 5 gallon fabric pot over a 10 gallon Rubbermaid container, and I am using an air stone in the res. In an attempt to always improve I'm always trying new things, this time I'm using some different dry nutes in the trench than I have before.

The plant I have in there is a GG4, and they are light sensitive and light feeders. This one is showing relatively mild varied nute issues in random leaves, and I'm really not sure if I've over or under fed it (or it could be a water PH problem, or too much light...). To that end, I'm just going to let it go for now and see if it evens out on its own -- especially since the new growth seems to consistently come in pretty healthy. This brings up the second biggest impediment to my accumulating functional knowledge; I change strains pretty much every run, and they are so different from each other that what works with one may not with another. Knowledge is not always transferable.

this is a shot of the whole set up, taken about a week ago


and this is a shot of the canopy from this morning. It's an odd scrog screen, using what I had on hand -- which was two things that could not work alone and sort of work together...



I'll probably flip this to 12/12 on Monday, that will be 6 weeks of veg. I had hoped to go 8 weeks, but I am not confident that the nutes in the soil would last for the duration of a run with a plant as large as one that vegges for that long... if that makes sense.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 28, 2018)

Well looks like my hand may be forced... my center t5 fixture went out over the night... so now I either take down the whole rigged up thing take it all apart go buy a new t5 fixture or scavenge one of my shop lights... or hang up the cob lol... So should i keep these about 18" from the plants and keep them all the way dimmed? For how long?


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## CaptainSnap (Feb 28, 2018)

Humanrob nice clean looking set up! Im a big time treehugger and am always doing diy projects with what on hand so I appreciate that your doing the same! Your plant looks like a mag issue but it could be just locked up...not sure and I would take that with a grain of salt. That is a long time for a plant to be in a 5 gallon fabric pot. You topdress compost or new soil ever? 

I used to use 3 and 5 gallon pots until i got sick of watering to often and yellowing to early in flower! I went to 10 gallons for flower and because I have the room and went no till now went upto 20 gallon pots. Big difference in growth and flowerin...granted I understand we all have different growing restrictions and environments. 

Thanks for sharing your set up and style of growing!! Look forward to seeing the results!


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## Tim Fox (Feb 28, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Well looklike my hand may be forced... my center t5 fixture went out over the night... so now I either take down the whole rigged up thing take it all apart go buy a new t5 fixture or scavenge one of my shop lights... or hang up the cob lol... So should i keep these about 18" from the plants and keep them all the way dimmed? For how long?


Isn't all the way dimmed something like 10 watts? Do you have a watt met weter you can hook inline


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## Humanrob (Feb 28, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Well looks like my hand may be forced... my center t5 fixture went out over the night... so now I either take down the whole rigged up thing take it all apart go buy a new t5 fixture or scavenge one of my shop lights... or hang up the cob lol... So should i keep these about 18" from the plants and keep them all the way dimmed? For how long?


I'm not sure there is a definitive answer. Starting at 18" and dimmed about 50% (do you have a kill-o-watt meter?) could be a good place to start. You'll need to keep an eye on the plants for the first few hours, looking for signs of bleaching or taco-ing. I'd say it's better to start too gentle than too harsh, so even starting 24" for the first half-day or day (literally) couldn't hurt. 

I'm sure there are lots of opinions on this...


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 28, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> Isn't all the way dimmed something like 10 watts? Do you have a watt met weter you can hook inline


I do not have a watt metter at all, but it is a timber 250 watt kit with 5 cxb 3590s


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 28, 2018)

alright ill just start overly cautious and work my way down and dimming up. thanks for the input!


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## Humanrob (Feb 28, 2018)

CaptainSnap said:


> Humanrob nice clean looking set up! Im a big time treehugger and am always doing diy projects with what on hand so I appreciate that your doing the same! Your plant looks like a mag issue but it could be just locked up...not sure and I would take that with a grain of salt. That is a long time for a plant to be in a 5 gallon fabric pot. You topdress compost or new soil ever?
> 
> I used to use 3 and 5 gallon pots until i got sick of watering to often and yellowing to early in flower! I went to 10 gallons for flower and because I have the room and went no till now went upto 20 gallon pots. Big difference in growth and flowerin...granted I understand we all have different growing restrictions and environments.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your set up and style of growing!! Look forward to seeing the results!


Thanks for the kind words and encouragement. I've thought about the cal-mag thing, but its odd, there will be one leaf showing one issue in one place, and another showing something else somewhere else. One thing that impressed me is that in Jorge's poster he shows excesses and deficiencies, and sometimes too much of one thing looks a lot like too little of something else -- so I'm not ready to chase it in either direction at this point.

I've never top dressed a sip, I usually top dress regular pots. I've been somewhat following the instructions that come with commercially made sips, that's what the reference to the "trench" is -- there is a trench dug in the soil several inches above the bottom and *filled* with a channel of dry time release nutes. The roots tap in and access this vein of nutrients throughout the grow. Apparently it does not burn the tips, and it maintains its viability for the length of the grow. It is kind of a loose definition though, mostly the manufacturers show tomatoes and peppers being grown in them...

Right now I have a pair of Jack Herer's in 7 gallon pots in my 2x4, and that seems like a nice fit. A 5 gallon was the biggest pot I could fit on the lid of this res, that's how I landed on that one. I've grown in 10 gallon and larger before, but I find that there is an issue I encounter with watering where when the pot gets too big I'm less able to control not over or under watering it... long story I guess. We all find our comfort zone.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 28, 2018)

Here is a pic of my shoddy set up, and poor mistreated plants (they were in there small containers too long) heres hoping they bounce back and this light doesn't kill them! trying it at about 24 inches 50% power to start.


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## PDX Joe (Feb 28, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> When you top dress your sip, do you water from the top at that point (at least to wet it down)? This is something I've been considering because I usually top dress my non-sip pots around the beginning of flower, but I haven't been able to figure out if top feeding a sip would be effective. And other than adding nutes to the res, I haven't found a way to freshen up the nutes during a run.
> 
> Usually when I top dress (regular pots) I add additional dry nutes to soil mix I'm laying out, and then subsequently watering through that brings those nutrients into the pot. I suppose with a sip the roots near what was the previous top of the soil line would no longer "air prune" and could continue to grow upward into the fresh added soil mix? Since the top couple of inches of my sip are mostly dry, I'm just not sure how top dressing would help?
> 
> For some background, I'm not a no-till soil building guy, I just use a mix of out-of-the-bag FF Ocean Forest and Happy Frog, and I add dry time release nutes to my soil. Lately in my non-sip pots (inspired by the trench in sips) I've been mixing dry nutes in a more concentrated way into the soil in the bottom third of the pot and leaving the upper 2/3's just soil. So far the plants seem to really like that.


I only top feed my SIPs. But, I make sure the dry ferts aren't simply poured on top of the soil or they won't break down properly. I scratch the new ferts in a bit to the top of the soil. Then I cover them with a bit of cow compost & worm castings. This should allow some of the feeder roots to grow up into the compost and access the new ferts. From my understanding plant feeder roots tend to be up toward the surface where there is more organic matter and water roots tend to grow deep to access water or the water table deeper in the soil. Additionally, I spread a bit of bokashi on top of the compost and soak it down with some EM1. The EM1 helps develop the mycelium on top of the compost. This mycelium supposedly helps break down the dry ferts and compost and deliver the nutrients down to the plant's roots. The mycelium needs to be protected from light and drying out by covering it with the plastic sheet. Some dry ferts break down easier than others. I know Down to Earth says the Biolive shouldn't be top dressed or it won't break down. I use it with this process and it seems to work, but I'm open to trying other dry ferts if they are more "plant available". I do occasionally add more EM1 and Recharge mixed with water to the top of the pot to keep the bacteria and fungus counts up in the top of the soil... maybe once every couple of weeks.


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## PDX Joe (Feb 28, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Thanks for the kind words and encouragement. I've thought about the cal-mag thing, but its odd, there will be one leaf showing one issue in one place, and another showing something else somewhere else. One thing that impressed me is that in Jorge's poster he shows excesses and deficiencies, and sometimes too much of one thing looks a lot like too little of something else -- so I'm not ready to chase it in either direction at this point.
> 
> I've never top dressed a sip, I usually top dress regular pots. I've been somewhat following the instructions that come with commercially made sips, that's what the reference to the "trench" is -- there is a trench dug in the soil several inches above the bottom and *filled* with a channel of dry time release nutes. The roots tap in and access this vein of nutrients throughout the grow. Apparently it does not burn the tips, and it maintains its viability for the length of the grow. It is kind of a loose definition though, mostly the manufacturers show tomatoes and peppers being grown in them...
> 
> Right now I have a pair of Jack Herer's in 7 gallon pots in my 2x4, and that seems like a nice fit. A 5 gallon was the biggest pot I could fit on the lid of this res, that's how I landed on that one. I've grown in 10 gallon and larger before, but I find that there is an issue I encounter with watering where when the pot gets too big I'm less able to control not over or under watering it... long story I guess. We all find our comfort zone.


How is your humidity right now? The reason I ask is my plant leaves would look like this when my humidity was below 50%. I started paying attention to the Vapor Pressure Deficit and getting my RH up to 70 - 75% with temps at 79 - 82F and I've noticed bigger, greener less twisted/ wrinkled leaves and a bit faster growth too.

My leaves you to be somewhat small or stunted looking. But, I've noticed bigger healthier leaves since I made the changes.


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## Humanrob (Feb 28, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> I only top feed my SIPs. But, I make sure the dry ferts aren't simply poured on top of the soil or they won't break down properly. I scratch the new ferts in a bit to the top of the soil. Then I cover them with a bit of cow compost & worm castings. This should allow some of the feeder roots to grow up into the compost and access the new ferts. From my understanding plant feeder roots tend to be up toward the surface where there is more organic matter and water roots tend to grow deep to access water or the water table deeper in the soil. Additionally, I spread a bit of bokashi on top of the compost and soak it down with some EM1. The EM1 helps develop the mycelium on top of the compost. This mycelium supposedly helps break down the dry ferts and compost and deliver the nutrients down to the plant's roots. The mycelium needs to be protected from light and drying out by covering it with the plastic sheet. Some dry ferts break down easier than others. I know Down to Earth says the Biolive shouldn't be top dressed or it won't break down. I use it with this process and it seems to work, but I'm open to trying other dry ferts if they are more "plant available". I do occasionally add more EM1 and Recharge mixed with water to the top of the pot to keep the bacteria and fungus counts up in the top of the soil... maybe once every couple of weeks.


That's really good information, and makes a lot of sense. Your description is similar to how I top dress my regular pots, I suppose I could think about doing something like that with a SIP. I might change the way I go about setting up my SIP next time, the information you conveyed about roots is really interesting. On this run I have not been using a cover, but I might add one. I suppose if I wanted to get more nutes to the plant I could top feed, wet it down and cover it, and let the roots grow up into that layer. The thing is I have a similar soil/nute mix with my other plants right now (in regular pots), and none of them are showing any signs of needing more nutes. That combined with GG4 being a "light eater", and my concern is that it might be over-fed. 

I miss Down to Earth, they always had such good people working there. Do you take the drive down to Eugene or are you mail ordering from them? (I'm assuming the "PDX" in your name reflects your location... I lived in Eugene for a bunch of years but I'm up here now)



PDX Joe said:


> How is your humidity right now? The reason I ask is my plant leaves would look like this when my humidity was below 50%. I started paying attention to the Vapor Pressure Deficit and getting my RH up to 70 - 75% with temps at 79 - 82F and I've noticed bigger, greener less twisted/ wrinkled leaves and a bit faster growth too.


Thanks for the thoughtful comments. Right now the RH is at 55%. I have to keep it under 65% and have 24/7 air movement or there is a high likelihood that I'll get PM. I rarely let it get over 60%, especially once I'm in flower when I'll keep it closer to 50%. I'm growing in an old (1930's?) mold filled garage, its a miracle my plants are as clean as they are. I wish I could grow them at 70+% RH! That would be something. Even when I was growing in my house (built in 1903, dirt floor basement, etc.) I couldn't do that. My temps spend most of the lights on period between 77 and 80º, with nighttime temps going down to around 63º this time of year, with a warm up period in the morning. Oddly as I get into flower I have to run the dehumidifier during lights off, and it produces a lot of heat. Add to that the warming outdoor temps, and towards the end of this run (March/April) it will probably be between 77º and 80º 24/7. I was able to turn the AC off for a few weeks, but I'm running it in there right now to keep the temps below 80º. It's not a good set up, even after all I've put into it I'm not sure if I'll use it again next year.


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## PDX Joe (Feb 28, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> That's really good information, and makes a lot of sense. Your description is similar to how I top dress my regular pots, I suppose I could think about doing something like that with a SIP. I might change the way I go about setting up my SIP next time, the information you conveyed about roots is really interesting. On this run I have not been using a cover, but I might add one. I suppose if I wanted to get more nutes to the plant I could top feed, wet it down and cover it, and let the roots grow up into that layer. The thing is I have a similar soil/nute mix with my other plants right now (in regular pots), and none of them are showing any signs of needing more nutes. That combined with GG4 being a "light eater", and my concern is that it might be over-fed.
> 
> I miss Down to Earth, they always had such good people working there. Do you take the drive down to Eugene or are you mail ordering from them? (I'm assuming the "PDX" in your name reflects your location... I lived in Eugene for a bunch of years but I'm up here now)
> 
> ...


Yes, indeed... Portland grower. I get the Down to Earth fertilizer at Portland Nursery. They carry their stuff. I've also used EB Stone. The local hydro store had Down to Earth for awhile, but no more. I tend to find the better organic products at the nursery rather than the grow store. Dennis' 7 Dees nursery on Division carried the Malibu Biodynamic Compost, but that location has been closed recently. Bloom Garden Supply has the Malibu Compost.


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## Humanrob (Feb 28, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Yes, indeed... Portland grower. I get the Down to Earth fertilizer at Portland Nursery. They carry their stuff. I've also used EB Stone. The local hydro store had Down to Earth for awhile, but no more. I tend to find the better organic products at the nursery rather than the grow store. Dennis' 7 Dees nursery on Division carried the Malibu Biodynamic Compost, but that location has been closed recently. Bloom Garden Supply has the Malibu Compost.


Ah, that makes sense. I'm east of Portland, but I make it to the Portland Nursery near 205 for our outdoor veggie garden at least once each spring. I tend to get my Fox Farm and Happy Frog soil from Grow World, it's much closer. Maybe I'll branch out next time.


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## PDX Joe (Mar 1, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Ah, that makes sense. I'm east of Portland, but I make it to the Portland Nursery near 205 for our outdoor veggie garden at least once each spring. I tend to get my Fox Farm and Happy Frog soil from Grow World, it's much closer. Maybe I'll branch out next time.


Do you find you get good wicking using super soil? I have always avoided super soil for fear it would be too dense and would either not wick as effectively or would allow the soil to become too wet in a SIPs. I may try pure compost or a super soil with my potatoes outside this year in their SIPs. I find they don’t get enough nutrients using pure peat and top dressing.


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## Humanrob (Mar 1, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Do you find you get good wicking using super soil? I have always avoided super soil for fear it would be too dense and would either not wick as effectively or would allow the soil to become too wet in a SIPs. I may try pure compost or a super soil with my potatoes outside this year in their SIPs. I find they don’t get enough nutrients using pure peat and top dressing.


"Super soil"? I'm not sure what you are referring to. 

I use a blend of these:
 

I don't seem to have any issues with wicking, but I probably build my wicks larger than they need to be. At first I was using coco in the wick because I thought it would keep the water cleaner, but the last couple of times I've just put soil in.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2018)

i have a pre cooked soil that i will be using hopefully i have enough for all to fill all of these lol if not i guess i might be using this old fox farms on a few and seeing what happens...

here is my soil mix... approx... it has been used once or twice and re amended

pete moss 7.5 gal
worm castings 3.75 gal
compost (sadly i had to use organic promix here as i had moved and lost my established pile) 3.75 gal
perlite 7.5 gal
lime 3 cups
glacial rock dust 12 cups
thats my base
then i mix my amendments together as below
kelp meal 6 cups
epsoma tomato tone 3 cups
alfalfa meal 3 cups
neem meal 3 cups
crab meal 3 cups
finely ground egg shells about 3 cups
azomite about a cup

I then take a total of 7.5 cups of the amendment mix and add it to the base and let it sit for at least 4 weeks...


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## Humanrob (Mar 1, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> i have a pre cooked soil that i will be using hopefully i have enough for all to fill all of these lol if not i guess i might be using this old fox farms on a few and seeing what happens...
> 
> here is my soil mix... approx... it has been used once or twice and re amended
> 
> ...


You soil builders are very impressive. Have you ever done a side by side comparison of bud grown in your home-made soil vs. pre-bagged soil? If so, what was the difference in the bud? 

I'm really lucky, the person I grow for used to smoke horrible weed before I started to supply her, so pretty much everything I've given her has blown her away. I guess my plants would be healthier and therefore produce more, and/or perhaps the bud would taste better if I built my own soil?

This reminds me of back in 1987, I drove my '64 Ford Falcon to a VW dealership to test drive the new Fox. I test drove the Fox, and it felt totally nimble and modern compared to the Falcon. Then the kid working the lot told me he could get me into a left-over GTI for the same money as the Fox, so I drove that -- way more car. Then he talked to his manager, and he couldn't actually make that deal... so I drove the Fox again. Now the Fox seemed underpowered, and cheap, so I left the lot without buying anything. 

The point, you ask? If the cannabis I'm growing is meeting our needs, I'm not sure I should test drive anything better, especially if it's going to require as much time and effort as y'all put into it! LOL 
I strive for quality, and simplicity. There is a balancing point between the best cannabis I can produce, and the least effort possible to get there. 

But that said building soil does fascinate me, and there must be a reason its worth all the effort -- what is the reason?


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## PDX Joe (Mar 1, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> You soil builders are very impressive. Have you ever done a side by side comparison of bud grown in your home-made soil vs. pre-bagged soil? If so, what was the difference in the bud?
> 
> I'm really lucky, the person I grow for used to smoke horrible weed before I started to supply her, so pretty much everything I've given her has blown her away. I guess my plants would be healthier and therefore produce more, and/or perhaps the bud would taste better if I built my own soil?
> 
> ...


I don’t think it’s necessarily better. But you can get good consistency with the soil mix you do yourself. I think it’s actually a little bit cheaper too. When I say super soil, I’m really just referring to any potting soil with all of the amendments mixed throughout all the soil prior to growing, rather than layering or top dressing or amending during the grow.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2018)

Your analogy is great... but If you CAN make that deal for the GTI with just a bit of effort why not I guess. But hey man if it meets your needs sounds like its working great! I did a few grows with liquid nutes and all that and it just seemed like a ton of work every day. At first it was fun like science experiment everyday but then it eventually just got to be a pain and then you are always buying more nutes and chemicals and PHing stuff and there is always the next bottle of gimic that is going to make your bud so great! The more i researched the more i realized a lot of that is like anything else flash and marketing to get you to open your wallet. So i started digging (hehe) into what soils really should be and realized that duh what my grandparents had been doing for years works! I have not had the time needed where I am yet to grow my own soil outside from all natural materials that I produce, so I found a cheap worm farm someone had at a garage sale and off started looking into no till and organics and eventually found SIPs as a very easy way to have large live containers that I am not constantly having to water and drain etc. As for quality of bud I have seen plenty of people on here posting what appears to be killer bud using nutes, and I am sure it is great... my experience was not the same.. Maybe it just comes down to me wanting to use the KISS method... I guess my mix is a bit complicated but really i just make it let it sit and good to go, re amend as needed. sorry for the novel lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2018)

I do use just plain promix in the wick however per recommendations on this thread (-:


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 1, 2018)

I actually still have a ton of fox farms wet and the spendy dry nutes and not really sure what to do with them at this point they are pretty old i dont really WANT to throw them away.. maybe start adding them to a flower garden?


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## Bugeye (Mar 1, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> You soil builders are very impressive. Have you ever done a side by side comparison of bud grown in your home-made soil vs. pre-bagged soil? If so, what was the difference in the bud?
> 
> I'm really lucky, the person I grow for used to smoke horrible weed before I started to supply her, so pretty much everything I've given her has blown her away. I guess my plants would be healthier and therefore produce more, and/or perhaps the bud would taste better if I built my own soil?
> 
> ...


A super soil style mix is far superior to the bagged soils I have used (Roots, FFOF). Pain is all up front in mixing and aging it. Inoculate with myco at every transplant and then toss down a quality bacteria dominant tea or two and you can have very thick lush growth with water only for the whole grow, even a 6 month grow. Easy way to bring out full potential in almost any strain.

Read up on the soil food web and behold the glory of a perfect system, like perfection of the type that makes you believe in higher powers. Once I understood the synergies at work between plants, bacteria, fungi, etc, there was no going back for me. Good read is Teaming With Microbes.


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## Humanrob (Mar 1, 2018)

Thanks @PDX Joe , @meangreengrowinmachine , and @Bugeye for your responses. I think if I wanted to add another dimension to this "hobby" building soil would be my next adventure. We do something like that with our veggie garden, each year adding more compost that we make and other amendments. Maybe someday I'll take it indoors.


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## pinner420 (Mar 1, 2018)

Prototype _USS Starwalker_ Veg model sip.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 2, 2018)

pinner420 said:


> Prototype _USS Starwalker_ Veg model sip. View attachment 4098680


I have some of those air pots sitting in storage... will have to let me know how do. I hated them when i used them but I was hand watering also.


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## pinner420 (Mar 2, 2018)

I will for sure. This is a; pheno, sexing, new system run.. Feels good so far now for dialage!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 2, 2018)

also WOW that Black Rose in your sig looks AMAZING! Can I find that out and about anywhere currently in orderable seed form that you know of?


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 2, 2018)

Nice healthy looking sips pinner! And is that a mother plant in the background? And based on your name I'd assume you are into mycology!! Just ordered shiitake spawn for this spring


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## Humanrob (Mar 2, 2018)

pinner420 said:


> Prototype _USS Starwalker_ Veg model sip. View attachment 4098680


Interesting... when you say "Veg model sip", is the implication that you would move the plant to a different sip to flower?

Very clean design.


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## pinner420 (Mar 2, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> also WOW that Black Rose in your sig looks AMAZING! Can I find that out and about anywhere currently in orderable seed form that you know of?


Cloning next week so it will be ready in 2...


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## pinner420 (Mar 2, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Interesting... when you say "Veg model sip", is the implication that you would move the plant to a different sip to flower?
> 
> Very clean design.


Yes I'm wrestling with the notion of upcanning to 5 gal air-pot with 12 gallon res or just the latter...


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## pinner420 (Mar 2, 2018)

CaptainSnap said:


> Nice healthy looking sips pinner! And is that a mother plant in the background? And based on your name I'd assume you are into mycology!! Just ordered shiitake spawn for this spring


Never played with spores however I've been looking into that rabbit hole.. Any good reads you could send my way would be appreciated.. Ya... Black Rose an old standby get something done with a smile on your face herb.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 2, 2018)

pinner420 said:


> Cloning next week so it will be ready in 2...


sign me up!


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 2, 2018)

Pinner I stay on forums for all my information and learned everything I know from the shroomery! I love science and experimenting, always have and always will. Ill be trying Wine Caps for the 1st time this year.

Also will have to let me know if you do try to up pot your sips containers. I plan to do the same with my vegging girls as well however I'm in transplantable fabric pots that easily expose the rootball....never tried any of those air pots.


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## Humanrob (Mar 4, 2018)

An oddity and user error with my SIP... 

First, I've noticed a LOT of root tips poking out from the fabric pot. In the past I've had the occasional one, but this is the most I've ever seen. I'm not sure if the plant is trying to tell me something, or if its just a cheap pot?



And then my screw up... I had mentioned that my plant looked stressed and I wasn't sure why. I decided to flip to 12/12, and while fiddling with the timer noticed that the switch between 'timer' mode and 'always on' mode, was on Always On. This poor plant has been under 24/0 lighting. There are pros and cons to growing in a remote location, I was never there before 5am or after 11pm to see that the lights were still on.

Considering the endurance test its been put through, it's amazing it looks as good as it does! Tonight will be 12 hours of cool darkness for it... I hope it enjoys that. I also discovered that the water in my 55 gallon drum is coming out at 8.0ph, in another thread it was mentioned that recycling dehumidifier water can raise the ph. I'm correcting that too. Those abuses combined are another tribute to the durability of GG4.


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 4, 2018)

Roots poking through the fabric pot on the bottoms is nothing unusual! Is there ever water in the saucer because that's what they are usually reaching for. The only other thing could be rootbound. Nice catch on that timer...that can be a pita. Nice looking Scrog


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## Humanrob (Mar 5, 2018)

CaptainSnap said:


> Roots poking through the fabric pot on the bottoms is nothing unusual! Is there ever water in the saucer because that's what they are usually reaching for. The only other thing could be rootbound. Nice catch on that timer...that can be a pita. Nice looking Scrog


Thanks Capt. There is no saucer because it's a sip, but being the base of the fabric pot that part is always damp. I do fear it might be root bound (or heading that way), it'll be interesting to see how it does over the next 8 weeks of flower. A 5 gallon pot is on the small side for a 6 week veg, hopefully there is enough nutrients in there to keep it going. Usually by now I'd have a ton of water roots, but this time not so much. Now that I'm correcting the pH in the res they may take off.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 9, 2018)

Good Morning Sip Growers,,, a view from my box last night


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 9, 2018)

Good morning man! Looking great!


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## Tim Fox (Mar 9, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Good morning man! Looking great!


its on auto pilot now,, 4.5 weeks flower,, so far so good,, zero issues,, zero bugs,, no PM ( always watching),, zero sprays,, no bug spray no green cure, nothing, al la natural


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 9, 2018)

That's awesome man! Congrats!


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## PDX Joe (Mar 9, 2018)

Did another tuck under the screen and flipped to flower on Tuesday. My cat, Jasper, approves.


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## pinner420 (Mar 9, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Did another tuck under the screen and flipped to flower on Tuesday. My cat, Jasper, approves. View attachment 4103113


Looking sharp... best thing I've done with my autopot xls is drill .25 inch holes every 2 inches to create the air-pot effect...


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## PDX Joe (Mar 10, 2018)

pinner420 said:


> Looking sharp... best thing I've done with my autopot xls is drill .25 inch holes every 2 inches to create the air-pot effect...


Yup, these aren’t stock Autopots. They’re “souped up” under the hood. Stealth SIPs.


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 10, 2018)

Just finished my 2nd week of flower with my first run with DIY 20 gallon SIPS containers. One has slowed growth and showing lighter green new growth! Just top dressed some bio tone and OSF and topped it with aged horse poop!





IDK Farms and Grape Fat Cheese


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## pinner420 (Mar 11, 2018)

week 6


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## PDX Joe (Mar 13, 2018)

Heading into week 2. Added some Recharge to the top of the soil. They liked it last week, so doing it again.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 14, 2018)

CaptainSnap said:


> Just finished my 2nd week of flower with my first run with DIY 20 gallon SIPS containers. One has slowed growth and showing lighter green new growth! Just top dressed some bio tone and OSF and topped it with aged horse poop!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


looking good in there,, keep up the good work


pinner420 said:


> View attachment 4103720 week 6


good looking plants,, keep rocking it


PDX Joe said:


> Heading into week 2. Added some Recharge to the top of the soil. They liked it last week, so doing it again.View attachment 4105248


Hey PDX you filled out that screen really well,, so healthy,, you sure have that hybrid sip dialed in now,,,, are you doing a big outdoor garden again this year?


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## PDX Joe (Mar 14, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> looking good in there,, keep up the good work
> 
> good looking plants,, keep rocking it
> 
> Hey PDX you filled out that screen really well,, so healthy,, you sure have that hybrid sip dialed in now,,,, are you doing a big outdoor garden again this year?


Thanks. I’m definitely doing my outdoor SIPs veggie garden again this year. I started the potatoes last weekend. Not sure if I’ll do any cannabis outdoors. My yard doesn’t get quite the right light to get really good quality outdoor buds. But I have a few clones from the current indoor run and maybe I’ll stick one outside to see how it does.


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 14, 2018)

I never thought of doing veggie plants outdoor in sips containers but love the idea! Looks forward to seeing your work pdx! I just might do the same this year


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 16, 2018)

Well 3 have bounced back those other 2 might not be worth the time but we will see, all have been topped and bound down today should bounce back in a few days. I slowly turned the LED up to full power (250 W through 5 cobs @ 3500K) and the plants seem to have adjusted well. Also installed a humidity and temp controller. think i will just keep binding these down for a while see if i can fill out the SIP footprint and then flower under the LED and a 600 watt HPS.


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 16, 2018)

MeanGreen what do you think was the issue? And the 3 big ones look like they are finally growing out of their funk....maybe to small of a clone for too rich of soil?? did you amend the soil prior to planting?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 16, 2018)

nah the issue was 100% my own fault. I had left them in too small of containers for too long. They should have been transplanted long before they were.


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 16, 2018)

That happens to me as well!! I typically see yellowing and lower leaves falling off before I get around to it!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 16, 2018)

Yeah if I was on the ball I would probably be done with flowering this batch already if not very soon. But cant change the past just move forward and dedicate more time and resources. (-:


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 16, 2018)

3 weeks in and the GFC(right) is faded and clearly behind the IDK which both hit flower on the same day. GFC was in 20g no till for 2 weeks longer! I also had to switch from rainwater to tap as its winter and I ran out of stored water long ago. Im assuming pH issues


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## Humanrob (Mar 16, 2018)

This is 12 days into flower. It seems to have recovered from the issues I had earlier, now the test will be to see if there are 7 more weeks of nutes in the 5 gallons of soil this beast has access to. I'm happy with the way it's filled the screen wall-to-wall in the 3x3 tent, I'm interested to see how much it stretches upward now. I trained it through the first week of flower so that took care of a little of the stretch. 



My early mainlining-like wire training which gave way to a very low scrog, is new to me -- I've never had a plant this low and wide before. I don't think I'd try this with just any strain, but this GG4 seems to be putting up with it. 



There are definitely a bunch of different SIP designs, medium-to-res volume ratios, nutrient and soil combinations, and of course strains -- represented here. I look forward to seeing how they all pan out. Some of it will be general knowledge, some will be specific, but it's all good to know.


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 16, 2018)

Nice work HumanRob with the clean looking low scrog!


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## Humanrob (Mar 16, 2018)

CaptainSnap said:


> Nice work HumanRob with the clean looking low scrog!


Thanks Capt., I keep trying new things and I never stop learning... which on a bad day l’d describe as I never stop making mistakes... lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 16, 2018)

looking good rob!


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## Tim Fox (Mar 16, 2018)

Hey guys everyone's plant's are looking great ,I will try and take some pictures in the morning ,


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 16, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> This is 12 days into flower. It seems to have recovered from the issues I had earlier, now the test will be to see if there are 7 more weeks of nutes in the 5 gallons of soil this beast has access to. I'm happy with the way it's filled the screen wall-to-wall in the 3x3 tent, I'm interested to see how much it stretches upward now. I trained it through the first week of flower so that took care of a little of the stretch.
> 
> View attachment 4106667
> 
> ...


I need to get my stuff on an ubber low manifold like this, so great looking!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 16, 2018)

also I know this isn't the spot but figured I would check with you guys. Was thinking of ordering some new seeds.. anyone used gorilla lately? I was looking at some of their Advanced Female seeds.. any experience or suggestions for good seed banks?


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## Humanrob (Mar 16, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I need to get my stuff on an ubber low manifold like this, so great looking!


Thanks mean. It's a challenge. The SIP being kind of tall is one of the reasons I tried to keep the plant so short, in the end the SIP height made it feasible -- if it was any lower it would be unworkable for me. As it is I literally had to lie on my back on the floor to trim under the screen. But that part's over now, it's all up from here.


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## pinner420 (Mar 17, 2018)




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## Humanrob (Mar 19, 2018)

For the first time this season, the flash on my phone decided to go off when I took a root shot. I thought I was seeing everything without it (and never forced it because I thought it would over-expose or create reflections) -- but it is showing a lot more detail. The first time I grew in a sip I used an air stone, and in that grow 90% of the water roots that formed were in the bubble stream. I've used air stones ever since. 

This time I have roots both inside and outside of the bubble stream, but it looks to me that the ones in the bubbles are denser and whiter, and I think I've read that whiter roots are healthier? It's also interesting to me that the roots in the bubble stream are poking above the surface of the water. In case it's not clear, the area to the left where you can see bubbles on the surface is where the air stone is sitting on the bottom of the res.

 

Every other fill I'm adding a little bit of Hygrozyme to the res, and about every third time some Silica. I'm adding three big shots of pH "down" every time. That seems to be helping a lot. For my non-sip plants I'm top-dressing with Dr. Earth's acid lovers dry time release nutes, I think that with each watering it will break down a little more, hopefully counter-acting my high pH tap water.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 19, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> For the first time this season, the flash on my phone decided to go off when I took a root shot. I thought I was seeing everything without it (and never forced it because I thought it would over-expose or create reflections) -- but it is showing a lot more detail. The first time I grew in a sip I used an air stone, and in that grow 90% of the water roots that formed were in the bubble stream. I've used air stones ever since.
> 
> This time I have roots both inside and outside of the bubble stream, but it looks to me that the ones in the bubbles are denser and whiter, and I think I've read that whiter roots are healthier? It's also interesting to me that the roots in the bubble stream are poking above the surface of the water. In case it's not clear, the area to the left where you can see bubbles on the surface is where the air stone is sitting on the bottom of the res.
> 
> ...


your gg screen is full of nice buds,,, gonna be a good ride


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 19, 2018)

Looking great Rob!


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## Humanrob (Mar 19, 2018)

Thanks guys. 

I've been pondering pot size with sips, since beginning with this run I'm starting to experiment with longer veg times and larger plants (in an attempt to only do one indoor grow per year and net 24oz+/-.). I'm thinking that even if my "trench" of nutes was big enough to hold enough nutes for the whole 17 week grow (@8 weeks veg and 9 weeks flower), I'm wondering how much "root crowding" stunts the plants? Anyone have any thoughts on that?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 19, 2018)

hmm that would be one hell of a plant lol I have seen 1 plant 1 lb threads but never 1 plant 1.5 lbs! But Im sure it could be done with the right set up!


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## Humanrob (Mar 19, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> hmm that would be one hell of a plant lol I have seen 1 plant 1 lb threads but never 1 plant 1.5 lbs! But Im sure it could be done with the right set up!


Not one plant -- combined harvest from a 3x3 tent and a 2x4 tent, with 2 plants in the 2x4 and either, 1, 2, or 4 plants in the 3x3. Still working on what the best combination would be. I'd need 12oz from each tent. My bad, I wasn't clear about that.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 19, 2018)

oooh ok i see what you mean i would think with that square footage you should be able to do that.


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 19, 2018)

I was pulling 8 to 10 o's off the 10 gallons I was using prior to going to 20 gallon no till sips! I'd expect 12+ off the 20 gallon sips.....I'll let ya know in 6 weeks!


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 19, 2018)

These Ladies are in week 4....20g No Till SIPS! Bud set in fruitation




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## CaptainSnap (Mar 19, 2018)

My Bad...Wrong Link


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## Tim Fox (Mar 19, 2018)

CaptainSnap said:


> My Bad...Wrong Link


oh yea, they are going to get pretty big,,, my new camera batteries came today,, i can take pics in the morning ,, week 6 flower tomorrow


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 19, 2018)

I look forward to the update Tim Fox!! And I can't wait for harvest


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## PDX Joe (Mar 19, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I've been pondering pot size with sips, since beginning with this run I'm starting to experiment with longer veg times and larger plants (in an attempt to only do one indoor grow per year and net 24oz+/-.). I'm thinking that even if my "trench" of nutes was big enough to hold enough nutes for the whole 17 week grow (@8 weeks veg and 9 weeks flower), I'm wondering how much "root crowding" stunts the plants? Anyone have any thoughts on that?


Yes, I think it’s possible to over veg a plant in a SIPs depending on the size. It’s harder than a regular pot, but still possible. But, with a large SIPs, probably unlikely. I think a root bound plant is going to have a harder time developing robust flowers.


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## PDX Joe (Mar 20, 2018)

My Lemon OG is stretching like crazy. The Critical Cure is a bit more compact. I’m almost at the end of week 2 and hoping the stretch is over. I’m running out of room. I could have maybe done a one plant SCROG with the Lemon OG. Did some defoliation to open things up a bit.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 20, 2018)

Finally have a camera working again over here, 6 weeks flower today


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## Tim Fox (Mar 20, 2018)

mainlined


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 20, 2018)

Looking Great @PDX Joe ! I am very worried about the stretch I am going to get when I go to flower for sure I will be tieing the ladies down for probably the first 2 or 3 weeks of flower in an attempt to keep them lower. Same to you @Tim Fox ! Also I think my next grow I am going to try to do some aggressive mainlining and training try to get just 8 massive kolas per plant. I have such a hard time trimming things off though lol I have read so much debate on de-foliating and not... and I have done it and seen the results...I dont know just seems counter intuitive to cut away parts of the plant that are healthy.


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## Humanrob (Mar 20, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Looking Great @PDX Joe ! I am very worried about the stretch I am going to get when I go to flower for sure I will be tieing the ladies down for probably the first 2 or 3 weeks of flower in an attempt to keep them lower. Same to you @Tim Fox ! Also I think my next grow I am going to try to do some aggressive mainlining and training try to get just 8 massive kolas per plant. I have such a hard time trimming things off though lol I have read so much debate on de-foliating and not... and I have done it and seen the results...I dont know just seems counter intuitive to cut away parts of the plant that are healthy.


I'm struggling with defoliating also. On my GG4 in the sip, I stopped trimming because my understanding (which could be wrong) is that as leaves yellow late in a grow the plant is "cannibalizing" (or recycling?) nutrients from the leaves. I'm trying to leave some extra leaves on this plant so that if I don't have enough nutes in the soil to carry it through, at least it has some extra leaves to pull from. My logic might not be based on how things actually work though, wouldn't be the first time.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 20, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> I'm struggling with defoliating also. On my GG4 in the sip, I stopped trimming because my understanding (which could be wrong) is that as leaves yellow the plant is "cannibalizing" (or recycling?) nutrients from the leaves. I'm trying to leave some extra leaves on this plant so that if I don't have enough nutes in the soil to carry it through, at least it has some extra leaves to pull from. My logic might not be based on how things actually work though, wouldn't be the first time.


That sounds right to me from all that I have read on here.


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 20, 2018)

Nice looking buds Tim! And yes Humanrob I believe that plants do cannibalize nutrients from their own leaves. I like to always let my plants naturally yellow out towards the end. Many times half my fan leaves are pale or have fallen off by week 8 of flower. I don't like to see this happening though until week 5 or 6.


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## PDX Joe (Mar 20, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> I'm struggling with defoliating also. On my GG4 in the sip, I stopped trimming because my understanding (which could be wrong) is that as leaves yellow late in a grow the plant is "cannibalizing" (or recycling?) nutrients from the leaves. I'm trying to leave some extra leaves on this plant so that if I don't have enough nutes in the soil to carry it through, at least it has some extra leaves to pull from. My logic might not be based on how things actually work though, wouldn't be the first time.


It’s a balancing act. Trying to get energy to the flowers rather than fan leaves, but also leaving enough fan leaves for the energy. I remove fan leaves below the screen not getting much light and some of the larger fan leaves shading bud sites. All others stay on.


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## ttystikk (Mar 20, 2018)

I gave up on SIPS, my plants drowned.

I'm sure I did something wrong but if RDWC works for me, why fix it?


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## Humanrob (Mar 20, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> I gave up on SIPS, my plants drowned.
> 
> I'm sure I did something wrong but if RDWC works for me, why fix it?


It's definitely a technique that takes some time to get used to -- especially if you are DIY'ing your own SIPs, that can add time to the learning curve because you have to design it with a broader fundamental understanding of the paradigm. I've seen a few home made sips where the plants are droopy and look like they're being over-watered, and I've built wicks so large that they over-saturated my soil. After a few grows I think I have them working well enough. 

But it's good you found what works for you. SIPs are not the best way, just another way.


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 20, 2018)

I ran RDWC for just over a year. Very simple and low maintenance if things are dialed in correctly. I got root aphids once and shortly after root rot and I was done with that. I still play with single bucket dwc now as I have bottles to use up and ph pens to use. Plus I like to tinker


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 20, 2018)

Kinda off topic but Ive been thinking a lot on what to do at my place for my veggie garden. I have a small yard that is all sand. I've tried in ground and in fabric pots with no success. I'm thinking of converting a couple IBC Totes into 150 gallon SIPS permaculture raised beds.

My thought is to cut the IBC in half so I can get 2 planters out of 1 tote. I'd cut the plastic to be my water reservoir and then I'd sew a large fabric liner to fit inside the tote. The cage would support the fabric when full of soil. What's your guys's thoughts? Waste of time? 

Here are some images incase you don't know what I'm talking about.....


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## elkamino (Mar 20, 2018)

CaptainSnap said:


> Kinda off topic but Ive been thinking a lot on what to do at my place for my veggie garden. I have a small yard that is all sand. I've tried in ground and in fabric pots with no success. I'm thinking of converting a couple IBC Totes into 150 gallon SIPS permaculture raised beds.
> 
> My thought is to cut the IBC in half so I can get 2 planters out of 1 tote. I'd cut the plastic to be my water reservoir and then I'd sew a large fabric liner to fit inside the tote. The cage would support the fabric when full of soil. What's your guys's thoughts? Waste of time?
> 
> ...


 Dude if you are all sand would you consider something like this?

https://richsoil.com/hugelkultur/

If you’re thinking long term and have the space hugelkultur is great way to go. Building topsoil with very little cost and after the initial workload very little effort.


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 20, 2018)

> Dude if you are all sand would you consider something like this?
> 
> https://richsoil.com/hugelkultur/
> 
> If you’re thinking long term and have the space hugelkultur is great way to go. Building topsoil with very little cost and after the initial workload very little effort.


Thanks for sharing! I am a big fan of hugelkultur....I happen to be converting our family large garden & orchard into a permaculture hugelkultur!!! Unfortunatly I live an hour north in town with a small lot. I like the idea of being able to move these beds. 

I even plan to have mini hugelkulture in them. As I would line the bottom with logs, then some wood chips, then dirt, and topped off with compost!


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## Tim Fox (Mar 20, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Looking Great @PDX Joe ! I am very worried about the stretch I am going to get when I go to flower for sure I will be tieing the ladies down for probably the first 2 or 3 weeks of flower in an attempt to keep them lower. Same to you @Tim Fox ! Also I think my next grow I am going to try to do some aggressive mainlining and training try to get just 8 massive kolas per plant. I have such a hard time trimming things off though lol I have read so much debate on de-foliating and not... and I have done it and seen the results...I dont know just seems counter intuitive to cut away parts of the plant that are healthy.


I really had to allow myself to go "outside of my comfort zone" on this grow, especially early on,, I would read the mainling instructions and look the plant and say to myself, Ok there Goes!! Wake Snip Chop,, and well it worked , i was able to get 5 weeks of veg time in, almost doubling my veg time and the plants were sturdy'er and have thicker stems than my previous grows,, No larf, no popcorn, just tops, and the mainlining kept them short,, so it all fits in my space,, I did leave more leaves on than nug buckets did once i had them in thier shapes, the lower fans that are left are yellowing out, and some more leafs will come out as i pass week 7,, mostly because i am fearful of any mold or bud rot, just want to have some circulation,, 

Overall though it was a huge departure from what i did the last 2 grows,


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 21, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> I really had to allow myself to go "outside of my comfort zone" on this grow, especially early on,, I would read the mainling instructions and look the plant and say to myself, Ok there Goes!! Wake Snip Chop,, and well it worked , i was able to get 5 weeks of veg time in, almost doubling my veg time and the plants were sturdy'er and have thicker stems than my previous grows,, No larf, no popcorn, just tops, and the mainlining kept them short,, so it all fits in my space,, I did leave more leaves on than nug buckets did once i had them in thier shapes, the lower fans that are left are yellowing out, and some more leafs will come out as i pass week 7,, mostly because i am fearful of any mold or bud rot, just want to have some circulation,,
> 
> Overall though it was a huge departure from what i did the last 2 grows,


Yeah I dont know if I will be able to do all that cutting but maybe after seeing your results it will be easier (-;


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## Tim Fox (Mar 21, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yeah I dont know if I will be able to do all that cutting but maybe after seeing your results it will be easier (-;


the whole time in the early going i set myself at ease,, knowing that if i killed them,, or hurt them horribly,, all i had to do was go back over to the state legal store and buy some more cheap clones ,, hahahha,, the joys of legal growing


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## Tim Fox (Mar 21, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yeah I dont know if I will be able to do all that cutting but maybe after seeing your results it will be easier (-;


oh, on another note,, @Humanrob even did an early mainline on some of his plants and whacked half the plant off and was pleasantly surprised at how well they not only bounced back but mainifolded for him,, was that some of your seedling?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 21, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> the whole time in the early going i set myself at ease,, knowing that if i killed them,, or hurt them horribly,, all i had to do was go back over to the state legal store and buy some more cheap clones ,, hahahha,, the joys of legal growing


Sadly I do not have that option but hopefully will have some moms going by then (planning on trying to take some clones from my current ladies in veg before flipping to flower) and can re clone if needed lol


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## Tim Fox (Mar 21, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Sadly I do not have that option but hopefully will have some moms going by then (planning on trying to take some clones from my current ladies in veg before flipping to flower) and can re clone if needed lol


i remember the days i used to grow in So Cal during ROnald Regan days,, and his war on drugs,, it was spooky scary,, i feel i was really underestimating what Hard Time would have been like,, its a relief to not be under that strain,, its partly why i went thru 30 years of prohibition ,, things would have been so much better if MJ was legal across the board,, my and booze were a bad combination


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## Tim Fox (Mar 21, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Sadly I do not have that option but hopefully will have some moms going by then (planning on trying to take some clones from my current ladies in veg before flipping to flower) and can re clone if needed lol


its good you have space to dedicate to a MOM,,, keep yourself in constant supply


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 21, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> its good you have space to dedicate to a MOM,,, keep yourself in constant supply


Yeah hopefully I will have a veg flower mom and drying room all set up soon, I have the mom room im using from veg atm, i need to light proof between what I am using for my flower room now and what I want to be my veg area (right now im using it as a secondary light proof room basically. long term goals lol


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## Humanrob (Mar 21, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> oh, on another note,, @Humanrob even did an early mainline on some of his plants and whacked half the plant off and was pleasantly surprised at how well they not only bounced back but mainifolded for him,, was that some of your seedling?


Actually, that was one of the pair of Jack Herer clones. One clone I picked up had a nice form, but the other one was too tall and had too much space between the nodes, and I ended out cutting the little thing almost in half. I was really worried that it might get shocked and never be the same or maybe take a long time to recover, but in the end it was a much stronger plant than the other, with much thicker main branches. That's just one experience so it's totally anecdotal, but it made an impression on me.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 22, 2018)

Not very fun pics as no flowers yet but some pics of the ladies after their recovery from bondage. Going to be flowering soon. I think I might just cull those 2 little ones clone from the 3 big ones put them under a screen and push them sideways the first few weeks of stretch time to keep them low. What do you guys think?


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## PDX Joe (Mar 22, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Not very fun pics as no flowers yet but some pics of the ladies after their recovery from bondage. Going to be flowering soon. I think I might just cull those 2 little ones clone from the 3 big ones put them under a screen and push them sideways the first few weeks of stretch time to keep them low. What do you guys think?


Yeah, the larger plants may crowd out the smaller ones. Once the larger ones stretch they can maybe fill up that open space?


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## PDX Joe (Mar 22, 2018)

I’m trying out one of these Dewey Misters for cloning and... success.


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## ttystikk (Mar 22, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> It's definitely a technique that takes some time to get used to -- especially if you are DIY'ing your own SIPs, that can add time to the learning curve because you have to design it with a broader fundamental understanding of the paradigm. I've seen a few home made sips where the plants are droopy and look like they're being over-watered, and I've built wicks so large that they over-saturated my soil. After a few grows I think I have them working well enough.
> 
> But it's good you found what works for you. SIPs are not the best way, just another way.


I don't want anyone here to think I'm knocking the approach in general. That it did not meet my goals doesn't mean it isn't a great solution for other situations.

Similarly, RDWC is not the right solution for everyone.


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## ttystikk (Mar 22, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> I’m trying out one of these Dewey Misters for cloning and... success.View attachment 4110315


How does it work?


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 22, 2018)

Damn I'd be happier than a fly on shit if I saw roots starting like that on clones!! Very nice PDX


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## PDX Joe (Mar 22, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> How does it work?


There is a little plastic bubbler (Dewey Mister) that suction cups down to the bottom of the bucket. You hook it up to a small air pump with a hose. Then add distilled water up to the fill mark on the mister and it bubbles away... constant moisture without rotting the stems. I smeared the cuttings with a little bit of rooting gel. It took about 3 weeks for them to root. The cage is to keep my cat from chowing down on them. No clone dome or misting required. They didn’t even yellow all that much. I actually tried misting a bit for the first week and a few leaves rotted. So, they were getting enough moisture through their stems.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 23, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Yeah, the larger plants may crowd out the smaller ones. Once the larger ones stretch they can maybe fill up that open space?


Yeah basically my thoughts too they will just get crowded out, just train the bigger ones a bit more and fill out my screen and should be fine making up for lost space of those.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 23, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> There is a little plastic bubbler (Dewey Mister) that suction cups down to the bottom of the bucket. You hook it up to a small air pump with a hose. Then add distilled water up to the fill mark on the mister and it bubbles away... constant moisture without rotting the stems. I smeared the cuttings with a little bit of rooting gel. It took about 3 weeks for them to root. The cage is to keep my cat from chowing down on them. No clone dome or misting required. They didn’t even yellow all that much. I actually tried misting a bit for the first week and a few leaves rotted. So, they were getting enough moisture through their stems.View attachment 4110341


I have a DIY Areocloner I made out of a 27 gallon tote (I went way too big for what I need lol) and it works great as long as I have the PH right. I think 3 weeks might be a while to wait for roots but Im not very experienced at cloning. I will be busting out my areocloner again here in the next week and will post my set up and results. I have heard that bubble cloners might actually be a better way to go. One thing I did learn while making a DIY areocloner is... OMFG buy a sealable tote because leak proofing the lid suuuuuuuucks lol


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## Tim Fox (Mar 23, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> I don't want anyone here to think I'm knocking the approach in general. That it did not meet my goals doesn't mean it isn't a great solution for other situations.
> 
> Similarly, RDWC is not the right solution for everyone.


Totatlly,, nothing but respect for the Ttystikk Yoda man


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 23, 2018)

End of Week 4 For These Ladies! IDK is ahead of GFC still....Got 2 more 20g SIPS transitioning next week


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 23, 2018)

ttystikk said:


> I don't want anyone here to think I'm knocking the approach in general. That it did not meet my goals doesn't mean it isn't a great solution for other situations.
> 
> Similarly, RDWC is not the right solution for everyone.


Yeah man! agree with Tim. There are so many different ways to grow, whatever floats your boat! And of course gets you lots of dank


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## Tim Fox (Mar 23, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yeah man! agree with Tim. There are so many different ways to grow, whatever floats your boat! And of course gets you lots of dank


have you seen his Vertical grows,, its a trip,, like vines climing a wall ,,


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 23, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> have you seen his Vertical grows,, its a trip,, like vines climing a wall ,,


Yeah I have peeked at his set up a bunch it kinda blows my mind it is so different from what I have going on. It is cool that there are so many different ways this can be done, but for me this just seems like the KISS method. No nutes to worry about measuring every time i water or every other time, no moving parts to worry about failing and getting water all over the place or drowning or drying out a plant. I can even leave for a week if absolutely needed and the plants will just keep doing there thing. Also the fact that I want to go soil and organics i think makes SIPs a no brainer for me.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 23, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yeah I have peeked at his set up a bunch it kinda blows my mind it is so different from what I have going on. It is cool that there are so many different ways this can be done, but for me this just seems like the KISS method. No nutes to worry about measuring every time i water or every other time, no moving parts to worry about failing and getting water all over the place or drowning or drying out a plant. I can even leave for a week if absolutely needed and the plants will just keep doing there thing. Also the fact that I want to go soil and organics i think makes SIPs a no brainer for me.


You and me,, Same Wave Length


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## Tim Fox (Mar 23, 2018)

got out the DSLR Fall colors coming on ( large file pics,, click on them if you wish to view full size)


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 23, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> got out the DSLR Fall colors coming on ( large file pics,, click on them if you wish to view full size)


Those are Gorgeous, man!!


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## PDX Joe (Mar 23, 2018)

Off topic, but those in legal states... do you use a carbon filter? I do, but I'm thinking about pulling it out to get a little bit more head height. The extra 4-5 inches would help me out on this grow.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 23, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Off topic, but those in legal states... do you use a carbon filter? I do, but I'm thinking about pulling it out to get a little bit more head height. The extra 4-5 inches would help me out on this grow.


i used to, but I moved my grow box over by a window ( had to get the wifes blessing),, and now i just blow out the window,, after removing the filter i was able to move my light up higher in the box ,,, next grow I need to move the exhaust fan so i can center the lgiht,, but yes, its worth it,, i can smell it outside,, only sometimes,, just depends on how the wind is mixing up the air and blowing it around


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## PDX Joe (Mar 23, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> i used to, but I moved my grow box over by a window ( had to get the wifes blessing),, and now i just blow out the window,, after removing the filter i was able to move my light up higher in the box ,,, next grow I need to move the exhaust fan so i can center the lgiht,, but yes, its worth it,, i can smell it outside,, only sometimes,, just depends on how the wind is mixing up the air and blowing it around


Cool, I figure as I maintain a high VPD it sort of negates the filter. The carbon doesn't work as well when the air is humid. So, I don't know how much it is working for me anyway and it will be good to get that monster out of the closet.


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## Humanrob (Mar 23, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Off topic, but those in legal states... do you use a carbon filter? I do, but I'm thinking about pulling it out to get a little bit more head height. The extra 4-5 inches would help me out on this grow.


I never have, I think it just depends on your neighborhood. I thought I was safe because I'm up the street from the police station, but that didn't stop some a-hole from steeling some of my outdoor out of my backyard last year. I've heard that in parts of Eugene and SE Portland starting in September cannabis is such a common smell that you can hardly tell which direction it's coming from. That's not the case in my neighborhood, my grow is the only one I've smelled in my more conservative suburb. I guess it depends on who you don't want to smell it, and why.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 23, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Cool, I figure as I maintain a high VPD it sort of negates the filter. The carbon doesn't work as well when the air is humid. So, I don't know how much it is working for me anyway and it will be good to get that monster out of the closet.


i got so tired of washing carbon,, and baking it in the oven,, and having to tend to that thing or tape up the joints,, its so much easier without it


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## twagner23 (Mar 23, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> I never have, I think it just depends on your neighborhood. I thought I was safe because I'm up the street from the police station, but that didn't stop some a-hole from steeling some of my outdoor out of my backyard last year. I've heard that in parts of Eugene and SE Portland starting in September cannabis is such a common smell that you can hardly tell which direction it's coming from. That's not the case in my neighborhood, my grow is the only one I've smelled in my more conservative suburb. I guess it depends on who you don't want to smell it, and why.


I'll be growing 20 plants outdoors in Gresham this summer, wish me luck lol.


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## Humanrob (Mar 23, 2018)

twagner23 said:


> I'll be growing 20 plants outdoors in Gresham this summer, wish me luck lol.


I wish you luck... security cameras, a large scary dog, and a tall fence...


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## Tim Fox (Mar 23, 2018)

twagner23 said:


> I'll be growing 20 plants outdoors in Gresham this summer, wish me luck lol.


Welcome to the nieghborhood , Estacada here


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## twagner23 (Mar 23, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> I wish you luck... security cameras, a large scary dog, and a tall fence...


Security cameras will be up for sure, since it will be a designated medical grow and completely legal I can use the cops as recourse if need be. I also plan on putting up signs around the grow saying something along the lines of "Designated Medical Grow, Security Cameras Are Present. Trespassers will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law."


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## twagner23 (Mar 23, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> Welcome to the nieghborhood , Estacada here


Nice, just moved from AZ about a year ago. Want to do some camping this Spring/Summer around Clackamas River..


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## Humanrob (Mar 23, 2018)

twagner23 said:


> Security cameras will be up for sure, since it will be a designated medical grow and completely legal I can use the cops as recourse if need be. I also plan on putting up signs around the grow saying something along the lines of "Designated Medical Grow, Security Cameras Are Present. Trespassers will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law."


I'm out in the NE corner of Multnomah County. When our medical grow was ripped we walked over to the Police station and reported it, that was surreal. We're "patient growing only for themselves at their own residence" status, so no requirements for us (other than count). The LEO's did suggest that whether or not we get cameras, we should at least put up signs saying we have them. Other than a few autos that should finish before September, I won't grow outdoors this summer, now that rippers found us I'm assuming like squirrels on a bird feeder, they'll be back.


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## twagner23 (Mar 23, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> I'm out in the NE corner of Multnomah County. When our medical grow was ripped we walked over to the Police station and reported it, that was surreal. We're "patient growing only for themselves at their own residence" status, so no requirements for us (other than count). The LEO's did suggest that whether or not we get cameras, we should at least put up signs saying we have them. Other than a few autos that should finish before September, I won't grow outdoors this summer, now that rippers found us I'm assuming like squirrels on a bird feeder, they'll be back.


Yeah not sure what the cops would actually do with footage of a license plate or face, but I figure at least the sign might make someone think twice from stealing from a medical grow. I know it is a serious offense to steal medical cannabis if you are caught, especially when there are signs advising you of such like the cops suggested.


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## Humanrob (Mar 23, 2018)

twagner23 said:


> Yeah not sure what the cops would actually do with footage of a license plate or face, but I figure at least the sign might make someone think twice from stealing from a medical grow. I know it is a serious offense to steal medical cannabis if you are caught, especially when there are signs advising you of such like the cops suggested.


They were thorough, professional, and polite. We never expected anything to come of it, we just wanted them to have the data in case theft patterns emerged. I haven’t seen any actual stats yet on med thefts.


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## Farmer.J (Mar 23, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> *Sub-irrigated planter*
> _From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia_
> 
> 
> ...


Would Autopots be considered"SIP's"?


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## Tim Fox (Mar 23, 2018)

Farmer.J said:


> Would Autopots be considered"SIP's"?


I think that's what @PDX Joe converted into a sip


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## Tim Fox (Mar 23, 2018)

twagner23 said:


> Nice, just moved from AZ about a year ago. Want to do some camping this Spring/Summer around Clackamas River..


you have moved to Camping heaven


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## Humanrob (Mar 23, 2018)

Farmer.J said:


> Would Autopots be considered"SIP's"?


I've never used Autopots, so I don't know. Sorry.


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## PDX Joe (Mar 24, 2018)

Farmer.J said:


> Would Autopots be considered"SIP's"?


Simple answer is if you are using plain water and adding your nutrients to the soil, then yes they are. If you mix nutrients into the water then you’re using it as a hydro system. Complex answer, some designs are considered more “SIP” like. They have a wick that hangs down into the water and there is an air gap. Autopot as designed are almost more like a Hempy bucket. I changed mine to have an air gap and wick. I found using them as designed the plants were droopy from over watering and as a hydro system the salts built up in the soil and killed the plants. Using them with organic nutrients mixed into the top of the soil has worked much better for me. But you have to use the big ones.


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## PDX Joe (Mar 24, 2018)

Week 3 flowering. I think the stretch may be over. The flowers are starting to bulk up.


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## PDX Joe (Mar 24, 2018)

twagner23 said:


> Nice, just moved from AZ about a year ago. Want to do some camping this Spring/Summer around Clackamas River..


Check out the Wallowa Mountains. The “Swiss Alps” of Oregon.


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## Humanrob (Mar 24, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Week 3 flowering. I think the stretch may be over. The flowers are starting to bulk up.View attachment 4111321


@PDX Joe , how long did you veg those for? And how are they doing with the proximity to the lights?

The strain I'm running doesn't like too much light, so I had to plan this grow around giving them more space. I've got other strains in other spaces going that are 12" from COBs running @50w, but these are about 16" from COBs running between 30-40w+/-.

This is one day shy of 3 weeks. It looks like I tamed the stretch, I hope I didn't do it too well. It's looking like this grow is going to produce a lot of medium sized buds, but I think that will get me the overall volume I'm after.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 24, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Joe, how long did you veg those for? And how are they doing with the proximity to the lights?
> 
> The strain I'm running doesn't like too much light, so I had to plan this grow around giving them more space. I've got other strains in other spaces going that are 12" from COBs running @50w, but these are about 16" from COBs running between 30-40w+/-.
> 
> ...


wow Rob that scrog is pretty my friend,,, very well done


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## Tim Fox (Mar 24, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> 12" from COBs running @50w,


thats good to hear,, i had to dial mine back down a few weeks ago, and its running 50 watts per square,, anymoer and It looked like the plants were trying to bleach,, I kinda wish i had another 2 feet to raise thel ight,,


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## Tim Fox (Mar 24, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Week 3 flowering. I think the stretch may be over. The flowers are starting to bulk up.View attachment 4111321


long stretch, glad its over for you, do you have any room to raise your light more or are you out of headroom,, I totally ran out of space in my box, and stretch stopped just in the nick of time


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## Humanrob (Mar 24, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> wow Rob that scrog is pretty my friend,,, very well done


Thanks, it's been a fun experiment so far. I am starting to wonder if continuing the training after the stretch starts has any negative impacts, specifically, I'm wondering if colas only develop on vertical branches and by keeping them horizontal, I wonder if I shortened the colas... but as usual, I'm probably just thinking too much. If they stop stretching soon, it will be one of the least stretchy stretches I've had, and I think GG usually puts on a good growth after being flipped.


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## PDX Joe (Mar 25, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> @PDX Joe , how long did you veg those for? And how are they doing with the proximity to the lights?
> 
> The strain I'm running doesn't like too much light, so I had to plan this grow around giving them more space. I've got other strains in other spaces going that are 12" from COBs running @50w, but these are about 16" from COBs running between 30-40w+/-.
> 
> ...


Nice well trained canopy... very even.

I vegged for 4 weeks. That Lemon OG on the right has stretched like crazy. The Critical Cure is much more compact and better suited for my head height. They seem to be okay that close to the light so far. The biggest difference was going from the 250 Watts up to 440 Watts. They just grow like mad now. I did some LST on a few branches to lower them a bit.


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## PDX Joe (Mar 25, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> long stretch, glad its over for you, do you have any room to raise your light more or are you out of headroom,, I totally ran out of space in my box, and stretch stopped just in the nick of time


I’m out of room unless I rework my light hang points and maybe get a bit more space. I could have grown one Lemon OG and been perfect. Now I know. They do seem to be slowing, crossing my fingers. I’m glad I took the filter out.


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## Farmer.J (Mar 26, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Simple answer is if you are using plain water and adding your nutrients to the soil, then yes they are. If you mix nutrients into the water then you’re using it as a hydro system. Complex answer, some designs are considered more “SIP” like. They have a wick that hangs down into the water and there is an air gap. Autopot as designed are almost more like a Hempy bucket. I changed mine to have an air gap and wick. I found using them as designed the plants were droopy from over watering and as a hydro system the salts built up in the soil and killed the plants. Using them with organic nutrients mixed into the top of the soil has worked much better for me. But you have to use the big ones.


So I ordered (8 ) 4gal autopots w (2) 47L reservoirs. I also ordered 8 airdomes for them. With the airdomes you are supposed to fill the bottom of the pot with hydroton until above the airdome. The air dome puts air into the rootzone. I was going to use botanicare readygrow coco coir/perlite mix and Remo nutrients. Maybe I should add supersoil to the coco and not use it like hydro? What do you guys think?


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## Tim Fox (Mar 26, 2018)

Farmer.J said:


> So I ordered (8 ) 4gal autopots w (2) 47L reservoirs. I also ordered 8 airdomes for them. With the airdomes you are supposed to fill the bottom of the pot with hydroton until above the airdome. The air dome puts air into the rootzone. I was going to use botanicare readygrow coco coir/perlite mix and Remo nutrients. Maybe I should add supersoil to the coco and not use it like hydro? What do you guys think?


everytime i tried hydro,, it was so much freakin work,, Carry all the water,, Drain all the water,, Spill all the water,, PH all the water,, TDDS the water,, mix the nutes in the water,, ugh,, 
Having done Sips several times,, there is no work,, I just ad plain tap water , and watch it grow


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## PDX Joe (Mar 26, 2018)

Farmer.J said:


> So I ordered (8 ) 4gal autopots w (2) 47L reservoirs. I also ordered 8 airdomes for them. With the airdomes you are supposed to fill the bottom of the pot with hydroton until above the airdome. The air dome puts air into the rootzone. I was going to use botanicare readygrow coco coir/perlite mix and Remo nutrients. Maybe I should add supersoil to the coco and not use it like hydro? What do you guys think?


Did you see they sell 7 gallon Autopots? I used the 4 gallon and found them too small, especially if you want to go with an organic grow using dry organic nutrients. I tried the 4 gallons with a hydro grow using salt nutrients and the salts built up way too fast in the pots and stunted the plants. I’d stay away from a hydro grow with Autopots. I modified my Autopots to turn them into SIPs. Look back in this thread and you can see how I did it.


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## Evil-Mobo (Mar 26, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Did you see they sell 7 gallon Autopots? I used the 4 gallon and found them too small, especially if you want to go with an organic grow using dry organic nutrients. I tried the 4 gallons with a hydro grow using salt nutrients and the salts built up way too fast in the pots and stunted the plants. I’d stay away from a hydro grow with Autopots. I modified my Autopots to turn them into SIPs. Look back in this thread and you can see how I did it.


Just to add to the conversation they made a new model that uses 5 gallon fabric pots. I have one here and debating whether I'm going to use it or return it as I will be attempting a transition to hydro............


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## PDX Joe (Mar 26, 2018)

I Amended the pots today with a topping of compost, worm castings and BioLive. That should get me through flower. 

I had to change how I hang the light to squeeze 6 more inches for head height. I did notice the tip of the buds closest to the lights starting to bleach. Turned the light down too. I consider this less a SROG and more a trellis at this point.


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## Evil-Mobo (Mar 26, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> I Amended the pots today with a topping of compost, worm castings and BioLive. That should get me through flower.
> 
> I had to change how I hang the light to squeeze 6 more inches for head height. I did notice the tip of the buds closest to the lights starting to bleach. Turned the light down too. I consider this less a SROG and more a trellis at this point.View attachment 4112591


Looking good in there.


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## Farmer.J (Mar 27, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Did you see they sell 7 gallon Autopots? I used the 4 gallon and found them too small, especially if you want to go with an organic grow using dry organic nutrients. I tried the 4 gallons with a hydro grow using salt nutrients and the salts built up way too fast in the pots and stunted the plants. I’d stay away from a hydro grow with Autopots. I modified my Autopots to turn them into SIPs. Look back in this thread and you can see how I did it.


I ordered ball valves so I can close the line. If I close the line and let autopots dry until the container feels light; could I top feed once every 10 days? Open valve for a week and close it again to give next feeding? Obviously more work than autopots are supposed to be but it would be a solution. The airdomes are supposed to help keep them from being droopy from overwatering

For now I have a really small grow area under 2 400w HPS. 8 small autopots fit in my space perfect but I may get the larger ones in the future for outdoor.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 27, 2018)

Evil-Mobo said:


> Just to add to the conversation they made a new model that uses 5 gallon fabric pots. I have one here and debating whether I'm going to use it or return it as I will be attempting a transition to hydro............


Again lol your a gluten for punishment hhaah you know I love you brother


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## Tim Fox (Mar 27, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> I Amended the pots today with a topping of compost, worm castings and BioLive. That should get me through flower.
> 
> I had to change how I hang the light to squeeze 6 more inches for head height. I did notice the tip of the buds closest to the lights starting to bleach. Turned the light down too. I consider this less a SROG and more a trellis at this point.View attachment 4112591


Dude good job squeeze in more light room, hey @Humanrob he is adding nutes to his sip like you are interested in


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## Tim Fox (Mar 27, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> I Amended the pots today with a topping of compost, worm castings and BioLive. That should get me through flower.
> 
> I had to change how I hang the light to squeeze 6 more inches for head height. I did notice the tip of the buds closest to the lights starting to bleach. Turned the light down too. I consider this less a SROG and more a trellis at this point.View attachment 4112591


Pdx I had to do the same thing and turn my light down it was to strong , I wish I had 2 more foot oh hieght


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## Evil-Mobo (Mar 27, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> Again lol your a gluten for punishment hhaah you know I love you brother


When you see the new setup you will be asking me how to set it up lol. Lot of thought behind this and planning to cut down on work load not increase it you will see ..........


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## Tim Fox (Mar 27, 2018)

Evil-Mobo said:


> When you see the new setup you will be asking me how to set it up lol. Lot of thought behind this and planning to cut down on work load not increase it you will see ..........


Oh I love new things


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## PDX Joe (Mar 27, 2018)

Farmer.J said:


> I ordered ball valves so I can close the line. If I close the line and let autopots dry until the container feels light; could I top feed once every 10 days? Open valve for a week and close it again to give next feeding? Obviously more work than autopots are supposed to be but it would be a solution. The airdomes are supposed to help keep them from being droopy from overwatering
> 
> For now I have a really small grow area under 2 400w HPS. 8 small autopots fit in my space perfect but I may get the larger ones in the future for outdoor.


There should be a shutoff valve already provided with your system, so you shouldn’t need to buy the valve. 

I wouldn’t recommend pouring liquid nutrients onto the top of the pots. It sort of defeats the purpose and you’re going to wash nutrients down into the water reservoir where it could develop nasty stuff. You’ll also throw the soil moisture level out of whack. I do add 2 cups of recharge to the top of the pots every week, but that’s to keep the microbe populations high near the top of the pots where the feeder roots develop. It’s such a small volume of liquid it doesn’t throw off the wicking system and doesn’t wash down into the lower part of the pots. Anymore than that and you will run into problems.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 27, 2018)

Final Trim today, 7 weeks flower today, 1 week to go, checked trichs on space kitties, 50 50 milky, took out most fan leaves, smells so good, boy did those colas fill in , no larf no popcorn,, kinda glad about that


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## Farmer.J (Mar 27, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> There should be a shutoff valve already provided with your system, so you shouldn’t need to buy the valve.
> 
> I wouldn’t recommend pouring liquid nutrients onto the top of the pots. It sort of defeats the purpose and you’re going to wash nutrients down into the water reservoir where it could develop nasty stuff. You’ll also throw the soil moisture level out of whack. I do add 2 cups of recharge to the top of the pots every week, but that’s to keep the microbe populations high near the top of the pots where the feeder roots develop. It’s such a small volume of liquid it doesn’t throw off the wicking system and doesn’t wash down into the lower part of the pots. Anymore than that and you will run into problems.


Thanks I will probably just put 1/4 strength nutes in my reservoir during veg and 1/2 strength during flower


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 27, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> Final Trim today, 7 weeks flower today, 1 week to go, checked trichs on space kitties, 50 50 milky, took out most fan leaves, smells so good, boy did those colas fill in , no larf no popcorn,, kinda glad about thatView attachment 4112903 View attachment 4112904 View attachment 4112905


Looking great man!!


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## Humanrob (Mar 29, 2018)

Seems like I haven't had a "normal" grow in a long time... LOL -- now my GG4 is getting "fall colors" 3.5 weeks into flower? I'm not sure if that is something to worry about... and if it is, if there is anything I can do about it?


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## PDX Joe (Mar 29, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Seems like I haven't had a "normal" grow in a long time... LOL -- now my GG4 is getting "fall colors" 3.5 weeks into flower? I'm not sure if that is something to worry about... and if it is, if there is anything I can do about it?
> 
> View attachment 4113717


This happened to me with one of my plants in my last grow. I fought it a bit with no success thinking there was some deficiency. After the grow I realized it was just a fast finisher. My guess is it will slowly change over the remaining time in flower. You might end up with a very colorful plant at the end.


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## Humanrob (Mar 29, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> This happened to me with one of my plants in my last grow. I fought it a bit with no success thinking there was some deficiency. After the grow I realized it was just a fast finisher. My guess is it will slowly change over the remaining time in flower. You might end up with a very colorful plant at the end.


Thanks Joe, I couldn’t see how it could be a nute deficiency and I know the temps in there are controlled, so it seemed odd to me.


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## PDX Joe (Mar 29, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Thanks Joe, I couldn’t see how it could be a nute deficiency and I know the temps in there are controlled, so it seemed odd to me.


I'm not sure if you're adding microbes on a regular basis. But, you could try a once a week microbe wash on the top of the soil and see what happens. It won't hurt anything. The upside is the microbes will help deliver whatever the plant is missing if they are in fact not getting something. I'm getting really well developed feeder roots growing into the compost and fertilizer layer by giving them the microbe solution every week. I had good feeder roots in the last grow with an occasional microbe wash. But, with the once a week application I have a solid mat of white roots growing up right out of the soil. It's absolutely wild. I should have taken a photo when I had the plastic cover off on Monday.


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## Humanrob (Mar 29, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> I'm not sure if you're adding microbes on a regular basis. But, you could try a once a week microbe wash on the top of the soil and see what happens. It won't hurt anything. The upside is the microbes will help deliver whatever the plant is missing if they are in fact not getting something. I'm getting really well developed feeder roots growing into the compost and fertilizer layer by giving them the microbe solution every week. I had good feeder roots in the last grow with an occasional microbe wash. But, with the once a week application I have a solid mat of white roots growing up right out of the soil. It's absolutely wild. I should have taken a photo when I had the plastic cover off on Monday.


Are you talking about mycorrhizae?


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 29, 2018)

Well I got 1 doing great and 1 struggling with my 1st run with SIPS! Could be the soil mix as its on its 3rd cycle.









And 2 New 20G SIPS added to flower this week....looking good as well!






HAPPY GARDENING ALL! Spring is here in the mitten and fishing has started!!


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## PDX Joe (Mar 30, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Are you talking about mycorrhizae?


Yes, fungus, but also bacteria as well. Yes, mycorrhizal fungus like Glomus aggregatum and Trichoderma reesei but also bacteria like Lactobacillus and Bacillus licheniformis. There are a bunch of others too, but you can usually find products with a mixture of all of them. The nice thing is the good bacteria and fungi crowd out the bad pathogens in the soil such as powdery mildew spores living in the soil.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 30, 2018)

hmm so as I am getting the flower room set up and looking to make a giant scrog screen (57" x 57") a thought occurs to me... how the hell am I going to reach the back of the thing... any suggestions? Just go under? lol


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## Humanrob (Mar 30, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Yes, fungus, but also bacteria as well. Yes, mycorrhizal fungus like Glomus aggregatum and Trichoderma reesei but also bacteria like Lactobacillus and Bacillus licheniformis. There are a bunch of others too, but you can usually find products with a mixture of all of them. The nice thing is the good bacteria and fungi crowd out the bad pathogens in the soil such as powdery mildew spores living in the soil.


I've been adding some of this to my soil, what do you think?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 30, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> I've been adding some of this to my soil, what do you think?
> View attachment 4114244


hmm that is one thing i have not gotten into is the ferments and fungi, think that will be my next exploration for advancing my grow tech (-:


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## pinner420 (Mar 30, 2018)




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## PDX Joe (Mar 30, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> I've been adding some of this to my soil, what do you think?
> View attachment 4114244


Yes, that looks like it has a lot of the good critters.


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## PDX Joe (Mar 30, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> hmm so as I am getting the flower room set up and looking to make a giant scrog screen (57" x 57") a thought occurs to me... how the hell am I going to reach the back of the thing... any suggestions? Just go under? lol


Oh yeah, that's gonna be tough. Mine is only 3 feet deep and that's about the max. I can reach and prune. Do you have solid walls or a tent? If you have solid walls you could mount pipe rails on the sides to be able to grab and lean over the canopy. I have one that I clip my fan to and it's pretty handy for leaning into the closet and doing work.

I had my screen set 8 inches above the pots last grow and found that was much too low and couldn't effectively prune the underside of the canopy or add soil amendments. I set it 13 inches above the pots this time and it is much better for maintenance.


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## pinner420 (Mar 30, 2018)




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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 30, 2018)

well.... this is going to be a height issue i think lol... what happens when you dont look on your sips for 2 days... also a shot of the flower room as I re do the door way with a new temp doorway ( have it all framed and ready for a 36 inch interior door and will be adding plywood and possibly insulation to the small framing that isnt done. For now its all just panda filmed.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 30, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Oh yeah, that's gonna be tough. Mine is only 3 feet deep and that's about the max. I can reach and prune. Do you have solid walls or a tent? If you have solid walls you could mount pipe rails on the sides to be able to grab and lean over the canopy. I have one that I clip my fan to and it's pretty handy for leaning into the closet and doing work.
> 
> I had my screen set 8 inches above the pots last grow and found that was much too low and couldn't effectively prune the underside of the canopy or add soil amendments. I set it 13 inches above the pots this time and it is much better for maintenance.


I think I am just going to try it and see what I can do from under the screen i guess? maybe get like a come-a-long like for working on underside of cars to wheel around under the screen lol.. it will be interesting bending that big lady under the screen tomorrow lol hopefully i dont break any steams!


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## neroceasar (Mar 30, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> I've been adding some of this to my soil, what do you think?
> View attachment 4114244


unless you have a cover crop, all but one of those mycos are useless & even if you do, just 2-3 are. If you wanna include a range of good fungi make an IMO from the KNF school of thought. If your looking for a range of laboratory and/or beneficial bacteria i like Biorighteous from EJ.


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## PDX Joe (Mar 31, 2018)

neroceasar said:


> unless you have a cover crop, all but one of those mycos are useless & even if you do, just 2-3 are. If you wanna include a range of good fungi make an IMO from the KNF school of thought. If your looking for a range of laboratory and/or beneficial bacteria i like Biorighteous from EJ.


You don’t need a cover crop if you’re using a plastic mulch layer. It essentially works in the same way by protecting the microorganisms from light and from drying out. I agree you need some form of mulch whether it is a cover crop or some other material to have it work effectively. You don’t want the top few inches of soil to get crispy dry.


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## neroceasar (Mar 31, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> You don’t need a cover crop if you’re using a plastic mulch layer. It essentially works in the same way by protecting the microorganisms from light and from drying out. I agree you need some form of mulch whether it is a cover crop or some other material to have it work effectively. You don’t want the top few inches of soil to get crispy dry.


i was just saying that in reference to the 16 different mychorrhizal fungi in that rainbow product. only one colonizes MJ. if you had clover and cereal might get use of 2-3 of em. _Glomus intraradices/* Rhizophagus irregularis *are the same & i think there 1-2 other names for it. I only know of that one type that'll colonize MJ and ive only ever heard of one other, which is a type that colonizes alder. _


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## PDX Joe (Apr 1, 2018)

Week 4... 

Also, the clones in the middle of the Dewey Mister grew roots better than on the perimeter. Next time I will rotate them.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 2, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Week 4...
> 
> Also, the clones in the middle of the Dewey Mister grew roots better than on the perimeter. Next time I will rotate them.View attachment 4115484


Looking great man! The stretch on that one side is no joke and I think I will have a very similar situation going, hopefully I can control it as I go into flower. How long have your clones been in? I took 5 or 6 from each of my 3 plants hopefully can get some keepers. I have had kinda hit and miss success with cloning and not really sure why.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 2, 2018)

Here are some pics of her ladies in their new home and the clones, hoping I can not kill these ones and can keep some control on this massive stretching, hopefully some more fun pics to come in the coming weeks! Flower time!! Excited to see how this turns out with this light combo!


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## PDX Joe (Apr 2, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Looking great man! The stretch on that one side is no joke and I think I will have a very similar situation going, hopefully I can control it as I go into flower. How long have your clones been in? I took 5 or 6 from each of my 3 plants hopefully can get some keepers. I have had kinda hit and miss success with cloning and not really sure why.


Thanks, yeah the stretch was ridiculous for that plant. I think it has topped out thankfully. Sort of enjoyable to see a plant go that bonkers.

I kept the clones in the bucket for about a month. It was a bit over two weeks until they started getting roots. I stuck them in soil this past weekend. I think I may grow one outside this year in a new SIPs I’ve been wanting to build.


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## CaptainSnap (Apr 3, 2018)

Any of you having issues with the top 3 to 4 inches drying up on you? Are you top watering to help with the issue? I just noticed yesterday how dry my large 20 gallon sips are in the top 4 inches of soil. Im assuming this could be causing some of my issues. Although I still feel like high levels of phosphorus or high pH is also playing a roll. Just curious as to what y'all are experiencing in the top layers of your sips containers! Thanks All and Happy Spring To All


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 3, 2018)

CaptainSnap said:


> Any of you having issues with the top 3 to 4 inches drying up on you? Are you top watering to help with the issue? I just noticed yesterday how dry my large 20 gallon sips are in the top 4 inches of soil. Im assuming this could be causing some of my issues. Although I still feel like high levels of phosphorus or high pH is also playing a roll. Just curious as to what y'all are experiencing in the top layers of your sips containers! Thanks All and Happy Spring To All


I have a top dressing of leaves that i moisten, I know some other folks on here cover with black plastic or other mulch as well.


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## Humanrob (Apr 3, 2018)

CaptainSnap said:


> Any of you having issues with the top 3 to 4 inches drying up on you? Are you top watering to help with the issue? I just noticed yesterday how dry my large 20 gallon sips are in the top 4 inches of soil. Im assuming this could be causing some of my issues. Although I still feel like high levels of phosphorus or high pH is also playing a roll. Just curious as to what y'all are experiencing in the top layers of your sips containers! Thanks All and Happy Spring To All


Yes, I’m having the same issue. I first discovered it around the time I flipped to flower (4 weeks ago), so I wet down the top and covered it with plastic. I’ve been having other issues and checked it again and under the plastic it was dry again. So I removed the plastic and moving forward I’ll be wetting down the top as often as necessary, I expect it will be about every other day. Losing the top 3-4 inches of soil the roots could be using is unacceptable.

The only cause I’ve hypothesized so far is that maybe I didn’t compact the soil enough when I originally filled the fabric pot and that’s why it’s not wicking efficiently.


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## PDX Joe (Apr 3, 2018)

Check out the mycelium blooms under the plastic. Extra fuzzy.


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## PDX Joe (Apr 4, 2018)

Okay, enough with the dirt photos...here’s something a bit prettier to look at.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 4, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Check out the mycelium blooms under the plastic. Extra fuzzy.View attachment 4116335


I think your dirt is pretty Joe (-; dang thats some great fungi growth there!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 4, 2018)

and of course beautiful buds!


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## PDX Joe (Apr 4, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> and of course beautiful buds!


Thank you.


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## Humanrob (Apr 4, 2018)

These pics were taken about a week apart, 3 days before and 3 days after the 4 week mark of flower. She looks pretty at first glance, but without being too dramatic I'd say she's running out of nutrients, or another way of saying it, dying prematurely.


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## PDX Joe (Apr 4, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> These pics were taken about a week apart, 3 days before and 3 days after the 4 week mark of flower. She looks pretty at first glance, but without being too dramatic, I'd say she's not so slowly running out of nutrients, or another way of saying it, dying prematurely.
> 
> View attachment 4116659 View attachment 4116660


I like the colors you're getting. Are your night temps. relatively cool? I'm going to need to start running my ventilation fan through the night to keep the humidity down now that I'm into mid flower. That should also drop my temps. I'll see if mine start changing colors a bit.


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## Humanrob (Apr 4, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> I like the colors you're getting. Are your night temps. relatively cool? I'm going to need to start running my ventilation fan through the night to keep the humidity down now that I'm into mid flower. That should also drop my temps. I'll see if mine start changing colors a bit.


I had been letting it get down to 60 at night, now it’s only going down to 65. 

I’m experimenting with very lightly feeding through the res, first time I’ve done that.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 5, 2018)

Evening SIPers! Added a couple gallons to the ladies today containing some cal mag, molasses, aloe and worm bin run off... next time i will probably brew a tea or possibly some ferments. Also thinking I want to figure out a better way for water measurements (thinking a whine cork on a dowl that is down the watering hole to act as a float and have it marked at the top where it is at when full, half full, and empty... The ports on the bottom just are not working for me. And I also will then add an air hole between the water full line and the soil line to ensure i get that nice air gap everyone talks about. If I was to try some ferments would i just add them under the mulch? I would not think I would want to add that to the rez? Cant wait to get some flowers showing on these gals to show off! For now here are a few pics even if not fun yet. Smoke em if ya got em all!


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## PDX Joe (Apr 5, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Evening SIPers! Added a couple gallons to the ladies today containing some cal mag, molasses, aloe and worm bin run off... next time i will probably brew a tea or possibly some ferments. Also thinking I want to figure out a better way for water measurements (thinking a whine cork on a dowl that is down the watering hole to act as a float and have it marked at the top where it is at when full, half full, and empty... The ports on the bottom just are not working for me. And I also will then add an air hole between the water full line and the soil line to ensure i get that nice air gap everyone talks about. If I was to try some ferments would i just add them under the mulch? I would not think I would want to add that to the rez? Cant wait to get some flowers showing on these gals to show off! For now here are a few pics even if not fun yet. Smoke em if ya got em all!


If you use a cork then use a synthetic cork and not real cork. I found they float better. The real cork can get a bit water logged over time and not float as well.

Yeah, add the stuff to the top of the soil and not the res. Just don’t use too much liquid where it can wash down into the res.


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## Humanrob (Apr 7, 2018)

I like all the variations on how to run sips, it's good to see that there are lots of ways to make this work. @meangreengrowinmachine and @PDX Joe -- you've both got some very healthy looking plants! 

For me, this run is the most maintenance I've ever had to do, so this sip is losing some of it's appeal in terms of being super simple ('just add water' was one of my favorite benefits of sips). I guess the final results will determine whether or not it's worth it. I've been lightly keeping the soil on the top moist (originally I thought that might need to happen frequently, but its turning out to be about every 5 days), and adding small amounts of nutes to the res. There is no way for me to flush my system, so I have to be careful about any build up in the res -- but that said, these changes seem to be working, the fall colors that were increasing on a daily basis seem to have slowed down. 

A day shy of 5 weeks...


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 10, 2018)

Hope all had a good weekend! I decided it would be a good idea to stick a knife damn near through my foot but hey things must move on! The garden has been tricky (and painful) to deal with this weekend, but got a gallon of fresh worm castings under the leaf mulch on the 3 SIP's gave "stretch" a bunch more plain water AND.. clones are starting to root! WOO HOO! also had to order up a new 6 inch inline fan from amazon hopefully the one I got is not junk. Decided to stay away from the flashy vortex and all that high end name brand stuff. Seems to be one that has decent feedback on RIU. Hopefully this stretch will end soon and will have some nice tasty flower pics to post soon! In the mean time smoke up all!


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## PDX Joe (Apr 11, 2018)

Entering week 6...


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 12, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Entering week 6...
> View attachment 4120717


looking gorgeous man!


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## Tim Fox (Apr 12, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Entering week 6...
> View attachment 4120717


very nice,, buds everywhere,, such a good grow,,,
sorry i have been kinda quiet,, i harveested , hung them for 5 days, then paper sacked them another 5 ,, now they are in jars,, so humid here in oregon,, so i am burping 2 times a day,, tonight the jars are open a couple of hours and i wave a fan over them ever 1/2 hour to exchange the air in the jars,, i have one of my meters dropped down into a jar,, if they are still hoving around 80,, ill take them out of the jars tomororow and spread them and let them air a while before going back into the jars,,,,
I got to test hit both strains,, its now my strongest weed in my stash,, that Jack Herer is sure living up to its name,


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## Norby Grown (Apr 13, 2018)

Doing some experimenting. Running Tahoe OG. Mother went in 2 weeks earlier in the far back right. I used strait FFOF and Just right, since it has all coco peat and no peat moss. I'm using MSR greenleaves, which is a synthetic fertilizer, I usually do all organic with jus ammendments but had problems with the FFOF. I think it was the composting of the peat moss that dropped the pH as I had problems with nute deficiencies which I think were from lockout. I didn't fertilize thru the top but have half strength ferts in the res that are pH'd to about 6.5.
I'm thinking I could use coco peat base soil and lime it well and put in nutes to the res which are in the range for hydroponic feeding and it would be buffered and raise the pH to uptake levels in soil, since they differ. We'll see how it goes next grow. This one I'm keeping the pH higher in the res than what you'd want for hydroponics.
Have 6 being aerated in the res and 3 that aren't. Haven't wavered from my organic grows in a long time but used to use MSR greenleaves 25 years ago and got top of the line meds so I figured I'd give it a try.


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## Norby Grown (Apr 15, 2018)

Already figured out that once you start aeration that you shouldn't stop aeration. One sip that had the reservoir full of roots started to brown a little. Added another pump and all 9 now have airstones. I lowered the pH to 6 with nutrients and upped the levels to half strength. Fingers crossed.
I used to do a 5 gallon bucket nested inside another to catch runoff. I had roots dip down into the runoff bucket before and do real well without any aeration. Bright white roots at the end of the grow. For some reason this isn't the case with these plants?


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## Humanrob (Apr 15, 2018)

Norby Grown said:


> Already figured out that once you start aeration that you shouldn't stop aeration. One sip that had the reservoir full of roots started to brown a little. Added another pump and all 9 now have airstones. I lowered the pH to 6 with nutrients and upped the levels to half strength. Fingers crossed.
> I used to do a 5 gallon bucket nested inside another to catch runoff. I had roots dip down into the runoff bucket before and do real well without any aeration. Bright white roots at the end of the grow. For some reason this isn't the case with these plants?


Nice looking grow room!

In one of the first sip runs I did, I didn't realize until almost the end of flower that one of the two bubblers had a kink in the feed line, and that res was barely getting any air. As I recall, that plant had about 1/3 as many roots as the other. In my first run, 90% of the water roots grew within the bubble stream coming off the air stone. I'm having a similar phenomenon this run, where I have a 10" long air stone on one side of the res, and about 70% of the roots are clustered around it. So I've always used them, the roots seem to like them. 

I can't speak to the roots being whiter or browner, having never researched or done Hydro I don't know enough about root health to know that one is better than the other. I have seen both in my grows. Halfway through and again towards the end, I add a little Hygrozyme to my res to clean it up. I really don't know if it's doing anything, but the bottle it came in is very confident that it's helping 

The more I grow the more impressed I am with the hugely different way different strains react to the same environment. I think some strains will take to sips better than others, some will grow lots of roots, others not so much... and it might also speak to the roots being white or brown. Given the choice of just picking one or two strains and mastering a grow environment for them, vs. trying different strains all the time and perhaps never growing any of them to their full potential, I've gone for variety. So there are lots of things I'll never know for sure.


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 15, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Nice looking grow room!
> 
> In one of the first sip runs I did, I didn't realize until almost the end of flower that one of the two bubblers had a kink in the feed line, and that res was barely getting any air. As I recall, that plant had about 1/3 as many roots as the other. In my first run, 90% of the water roots grew within the bubble stream coming off the air stone. I'm having a similar phenomenon this run, where I have a 10" long air stone on one side of the res, and about 70% of the roots are clustered around it. So I've always used them, the roots seem to like them.
> 
> ...


I like you grow variety but look at it this way brother, if you did grow one or two all the time and master them how much more you wouldn't know or experience with the different strains out there.

half empty or half full?


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## Humanrob (Apr 15, 2018)

Today is 6 weeks for the GG4. I'm hoping the buds fatten up a bunch in the next two weeks. I'm really glad that I didn't defoliate this one, it was a conscious choice and now that the plant has used up a lot (or most?) of the available nutrients, it will have those leaves to cannibalize to carry it through. That said, for the last few res fillings I've added nutes to the res, but I'll stop now. I don't have any way to test the water for anything but pH, so I don't want to overdue it. Also, not having a second plant next to it that I don't feed, I really have no idea if it's helping. I do think the spread of "autumn colors" in the leaves slowed down, so I'd do it again if I were faced with the same situation.


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## Humanrob (Apr 15, 2018)

Evil-Mobo said:


> I like you grow variety but look at it this way brother, if you did grow one or two all the time and master them how much more you wouldn't know or experience with the different strains out there.
> 
> half empty or half full?


Very true. Instead of mastering one, I'm getting a broad spectrum of possible outcomes that will allow me to adapt and respond to a variety of issues and conditions. That is if I'm not too stoned to write it all down, since there is no way I'll remember it all. hahaha


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 15, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Very true. Instead of mastering one, I'm getting a broad spectrum of possible outcomes that will allow me to adapt and respond to a variety of issues and conditions. That is if I'm not too stoned to write it all down, since there is no way I'll remember it all. hahaha


That's why I do my logs and because I like pics to go back and look and compare etc. And yes you're right you get a broader experience which makes you a better grower ( IMO )


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## Humanrob (Apr 15, 2018)

Evil-Mobo said:


> That's why I do my logs and because I like pics to go back and look and compare etc. And yes you're right you get a broader experience which makes you a better grower ( IMO )


I take a ridiculous amount of pictures, it's almost embarrassing sometimes because I'll be trying to find a picture of something *not* pot related on my phone to show someone, and I'll have to scroll through page after page of grow pics to find it! I also have a calendar system that I use to record milestones and I make notes on it, and I've got some hidden grow journals here that I have for my own records. Those things have saved my butt a few times. 

In the beginning I grew indoors year round, so I always had my hands in it and was always building my knowledge linearly. This winter I did two indoor grows, next winter I might just do one. It means I have to break open the journals and give myself a refresher course each time, it's amazing how many details I forget after being away from it for a couple of months.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 17, 2018)

well today marks day 16 since the flip to 12/12, decided to even things out by putting some blocks under some of the sips. When I took them out I also took off a TON of sucker branches (I am not used to defoliating so I am stressing a bit). I am still stressing that I took too much... because it seems like I took a LOT. But I am still seeing a lot of tops way up in the canopy level. so pretty sure I will be fine. Pics should start getting much better now (-: here are some new canopy pics


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## Humanrob (Apr 18, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> well today marks day 16 since the flip to 12/12, decided to even things out by putting some blocks under some of the sips. When I took them out I also took off a TON of sucker branches (I am not used to defoliating so I am stressing a bit). I am still stressing that I took too much... because it seems like I took a LOT. But I am still seeing a lot of tops way up in the canopy level. so pretty sure I will be fine. Pics should start getting much better now (-: here are some new canopy pics


They're looking great 

I'm often shocked both by how much I've taken off a plant _and_ how well the plant responded. It does have to be done right, but you can really go to town on them when you know your goals and use the right methods. This last grow I played around with mainlining, which seems brutal to me, but I ended out with a couple of well shaped plants that each had a handful of nice colas (and very few small popcorn buds). I'd bet your plants will be much better for having been trimmed back.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 18, 2018)

Thanks @Humanrob ! I am hoping they respond well and yeah trying to minimize that popcorn bud for sure. I must have taken 50 - 100 "sucker" branches. Hoping it will result in the 15 or so tops left per sip filling out and swelling nicely. Finally to some fun stuff with the flowers starting to show!


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## Norby Grown (Apr 18, 2018)

Getting some pretty good root growth in some of the reservoirs.


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## Evil-Mobo (Apr 18, 2018)

Norby Grown said:


> Getting some pretty good root growth in some of the reservoirs.


Looking good!


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## PDX Joe (Apr 18, 2018)

Day 43 and I did the final stripping. This opened the canopy up a bit to hopefully bulk up those lower buds.


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## Jaybodankly (Apr 20, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> hmm so as I am getting the flower room set up and looking to make a giant scrog screen (57" x 57") a thought occurs to me... how the hell am I going to reach the back of the thing... any suggestions? Just go under? lol


rolling cart


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## Humanrob (Apr 21, 2018)

Tomorrow will be 7 weeks, this one has about another week to go before we cross the finish line. This plant has had things happen that I've never seen before, it's like nutritionally speaking it has "micro-climates". Some parts of the plant are lush and green, some so dark it almost seems like too much nitrogen, other parts are showing cal-mag deficiency, others are just changing colors. All of these pictures were taken this morning, for me it's hard to believe they are from the same plant.


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## Humanrob (Apr 21, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Day 43 and I did the final stripping. This opened the canopy up a bit to hopefully bulk up those lower buds.
> View attachment 4124357


My next grow is going to be more like yours, I'm not going to flatten it out so much. One of the things I did on this run was to flip and keep training under the scrog for the first 7-10 days of flower. It seems like the plants put a lot of energy into their primary branches during that period, and by continuing to train them it evened out the canopy, allowing the other secondary branches to catch up. The downside of this, I think, is that it seems to make the colas shorter. 

I'll know more when I cut it down, but that's what it looks like to me in comparison to other times I've grown GG4. Speaking of cutting it down... in this late night sleep deprivation/pain killer/cannabis cocktail, I'm thinking I'll disconnect the scrog from the corner bars of the tent, and then cut the plant at the base and lift the whole thing out still completely attached to the screen. I might try to hang the screen vertically from the ceiling while I take branches off to trim them down. LOL or something completely different might happen, I won't know til I get there.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 21, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Day 43 and I did the final stripping. This opened the canopy up a bit to hopefully bulk up those lower buds.
> View attachment 4124357


very nice PDX


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## Tim Fox (Apr 21, 2018)

ok we took the GrowBox Sip from my cab today,, the res was half full, the soil near the top was damp!! the trunks /stalks had big huge roots right near the top of the soil like, some ran straght into the Nute trenches, the water roots filled the res and were bright white and this was without airstones,,, this thing worked so very well


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 25, 2018)

@Chocolateak47 here is the SIP thread I had mentioned to you. Might want to pose some of your questions here. Lots of knowledge between the peeps here.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 25, 2018)

Day 23 since moved to 12/12....Well.. I suck at cloning it seems, but hey got some flowers coming in! Seems like the stretch is mostly done time for the fun to start and things to start bulking up! Think I am going to prop up the C99 in the middle some more to get it on level with the others canopy. Also I am seeing something weird I wanted to see if any of you have experienced. I have 2 of the same strain (Money Maker from strain hunters) one is directly under a 600 HPS, the other is directly under the 250W 3500K 5 cob bar (with the C99 in the middle getting both). The MM under the HPS has the usual white hairs, but the one under the COB seems to have a lot of purple hued pistils shooting out of it... do you think this could be caused by the lights or is this just different phenos?


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## Humanrob (Apr 25, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Day 23 since moved to 12/12....Well.. I suck at cloning it seems, but hey got some flowers coming in! Seems like the stretch is mostly done time for the fun to start and things to start bulking up! Think I am going to prop up the C99 in the middle some more to get it on level with the others canopy. Also I am seeing something weird I wanted to see if any of you have experienced. I have 2 of the same strain (Money Maker from strain hunters) one is directly under a 600 HPS, the other is directly under the 250W 3500K 5 cob bar (with the C99 in the middle getting both). The MM under the HPS has the usual white hairs, but the one under the COB seems to have a lot of purple hued pistils shooting out of it... do you think this could be caused by the lights or is this just different phenos?


My guess would be phenos, but that's only a guess. 

What are you spraying them with?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 25, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> My guess would be phenos, but that's only a guess.
> 
> What are you spraying them with?


Just water and i will quit soon. It gets really dry in my room (which will be great later) even with humidifier on it usually sits at 30%, I think its due my fan 400 CFM fan constantly running to keep the hps cool and negative pressure for the smell, it sucks out ALL the humidity even as its made so in the morning ill give them a lite spray of just plain well water. Once the buds get bigger I will for sure stop spraying them. Might still spray the under side as that is where water is absorbed through the leaves.


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## Humanrob (Apr 25, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Just water and i will quit soon. It gets really dry in my room (which will be great later) even with humidifier on it usually sits at 30%, I think its due my fan 400 CFM fan constantly running to keep the hps cool and negative pressure for the smell, it sucks out ALL the humidity even as its made so in the morning ill give them a lite spray of just plain well water. Once the buds get bigger I will for sure stop spraying them. Might still spray the under side as that is where water is absorbed through the leaves.


That makes sense, I was wondering if you were foliar feeding, some people seem to really like feeding that way.

I'm in Oregon, sometimes have too little humidity, mostly have too much. During parts of this winter I had an AC running during the day and a dehumidifier running at night, and I'm using all COB lights. Lights make heat, dehumidifier makes heat, and after all that energy has been burned the AC uses more to cool it down. Indoor growing here is not a small footprint. But Friday I'll shut the lights off on my last remaining plant in this grow, and Sunday morning I'll chop her down and hang her to dry... in a room with a dehumidifier going 24/7... and then I'll be done with indoor until next winter.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 25, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> That makes sense, I was wondering if you were foliar feeding, some people seem to really like feeding that way.
> 
> I'm in Oregon, sometimes have too little humidity, mostly have too much. During parts of this winter I had an AC running during the day and a dehumidifier running at night, and I'm using all COB lights. Lights make heat, dehumidifier makes heat, and after all that energy has been burned the AC uses more to cool it down. Indoor growing here is not a small footprint. But Friday I'll shut the lights off on my last remaining plant in this grow, and Sunday morning I'll chop her down and hang her to dry... in a room with a dehumidifier going 24/7... and then I'll be done with indoor until next winter.


Yeah I am in a cool basement in winter I actually need to heat, and right now I have a temp controller to make sure it stays at least 65 during lights out. I will need the demuhidifier running in the summer time as the condensation in down there gets pretty bad.


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## PDX Joe (Apr 26, 2018)

Just started week 8. These may go through 9... we'll see.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 26, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Just started week 8. These may go through 9... we'll see.View attachment 4127534


Damn those are swelling very nicely! Cant wait to see what you get out of that! Great job man!


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## PDX Joe (Apr 26, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Damn those are swelling very nicely! Cant wait to see what you get out of that! Great job man!


Thanks! Yeah, I love when they start to bulge. Wow, these ones are stinky. I really bombarded the hell of of them with the microbes this time and I'd say it has worked out. They've stayed very healthy looking.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 26, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Thanks! Yeah, I love when they start to bulge. Wow, these ones are stinky. I really bombarded the hell of of them with the microbes this time and I'd say it has worked out. They've stayed very healthy looking.


yeah man those are some freaking donkey dicks if I have ever seen them! I can only hope to do as well! *Goes to brew a compost tea*


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## Humanrob (Apr 29, 2018)

There are so many things I will either do differently or simply never do again, but this grow was fun and a good learning experience. Here's some shots of what it looked like after I cut the base free and then extracted the plant and scrog as one unit and hung them from the ceiling. I've never done that before (it's currently cut down to branches and hanging to dry). The other pics show how the majority of the roots grew around the air stone. When I lifted the lid and pot off, it immediately separated from the wick leaving the wick sitting in the res.


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## CaptainSnap (May 1, 2018)

Hey all fellow SIP green thumbs! Hope everyone is enjoying the nice weather....just wanted to post an update on the 2 20 gallon SIPS. They were certainly slowed down either from lock out or russets....not exactly sure but I've been feeding straight water and the predatory mites arrived last week.

1 week away from the chop on these





Grape Fat Cheese (right) and IDK Farms (left) in 20 gallon DIY SIPS





Grape Fat Cheese in 7 Gallon Fabric DIY SIPS

Happy Gardening Everyone


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 8, 2018)

Today is day 37 since 12/12 and day 27 since I saw flowers starting to form. Things are getting very frosty! Here is a pic of the whole crew and then one of a close up of the Purple tip pheno I am seeing. Trying out some close up shots with my digital camera as opposed to just phone pics. I do not think I will get anywhere near a gram per watt... that would be 850... but hopefully .5 isn't out of range? What do you all think? Hope everyones ladies are swelling!


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## Humanrob (May 8, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Today is day 37 since 12/12 and day 27 since I saw flowers starting to form. Things are getting very frosty! Here is a pic of the whole crew and then one of a close up of the Purple tip pheno I am seeing. Trying out some close up shots with my digital camera as opposed to just phone pics. I do not think I will get anywhere near a gram per watt... that would be 850... but hopefully .5 isn't out of range? What do you all think? Hope everyones ladies are swelling!


Looking good! When I first started growing with Cobs I was focused on grams/watt, but for me it's fallen down the priority list to the level of a curiosity. That's mostly because I've found that it has more to do with genetics than the lights, some plants just produce way more bud per cubic foot than others under the same lights. (edit) I guess it's useful if you only grow one strain, and you are switching from HPS to LED, then it would give you a point of comparison for efficiency.

And secondly, from what I've done and read it seems that you need to run your lights soft, low, and spread out over the canopy to get really good g/w numbers. There are always exceptions, but it seems that most of the time that's the setup. So in my 2x4 I'll get more g/w if I run the lights at say 250 watts, BUT, I'll get more grams overall if I run them at 350. I've been leaning towards overall harvest weight as my priority.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 8, 2018)

yeah from the things I have seen where people are getting 1.8 gpw (and yes I believe that number 100%) there was a LOT of hardware involved running soft. And yeah obviously looking for more grams really vs grams per watt. Hoping I will get some decent numbers, but I have little ones getting ready now to hopefully go right in to the flower room after these are done in about a month. I am already a leg up on my other grows just due to finally getting nice environmental controls. Next I hope to get another LED bar exactly like this one and maybe still try to keep the HPS as well.


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## Norby Grown (May 9, 2018)

Couple updated pics. The middle pics are from the mother I put in 2 weeks ahead of the rest. Frosty but the tops are pretty small and she looks close to done at 6 weeks. Not really looking near as good as the 5 gal bucket grows I've done. Frosty adn sweet smell but the tops are no where near the size I get in buckets. They are however, rock hard and I hope the yields is close to as good. 
8 of the plants are 4 weeks out yet and they look like they'll have larger buds. The soil is strait FFOF and Just right mixed 50/50 on the 8 and nutes were only put in the res. The mother had amended soil that was a bit acidic, which could account for her smaller buds but she got fed thru the res too. Hopefully the 8 that are 4 weeks out will fair better, fingers crossed. I really like the freedom of using the drippers and not worrying about over watering.


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## Dr.J20 (May 9, 2018)

Can anyone point me to any posts where builds are being detailed? Esp. pinner420, i'd love to see your build but can't find it in the thread. if anyone could help me out i'd be grateful.

I started off doing SIPs and hempy buckets--there was a killer thread by japanfreak years ago i think with a diy earthbox and like 6 plants--and have since moved to sticking airpots right in a big catch tray and keeping that thing filled up. It seems like with the reservoirs and such folks are achieving some exciting and healthy looking grows now!

My main question concerns the wicking system here. I'm sure its explained somewhere early in the thread, but things have since evolved it looks like (check out global buckets and compare with the design hyroot used to run, at least at the beginning of this thread).

Here's the question: what does separating the water from the soil and then re-uniting via wick provide?

It seemed a couple pages back there was some concern about keeping nutrients out of the reservoir and it also seems like folks are having to use hygrozyme and whatnot to treat the reservoir.

I like the design because its super low maintenance especially with organic soil. But, I just sit my air pots in big 15cm/6in tall rubbermade 'catch trays" with airstones in them. I charge up the soil with a heavy watering, and then set the pots in the catch trays keeping the trays full of water, and the air stones bubbling.

What's the big difference between this and the SIP rigs yall are using? If you want to let me know where this is covered in the thread, i'd be obliged!

be easy,

EDIT: Also, DANKSWAG used to have what he called a passive hydro organic setup PHOGS, with the last comment on that somewhere around 2013--anyone know about anything like this? I think he used gro-stones or some other synthetic wicking material to sit his fabric pots filled with organic soil on top, using the wicking principles a little differently still...anyone know about this style?


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## pinner420 (May 9, 2018)

Dr.J20 said:


> Can anyone point me to any posts where builds are being detailed? Esp. pinner420, i'd love to see your build but can't find it in the thread. if anyone could help me out i'd be grateful.
> 
> I started off doing SIPs and hempy buckets--there was a killer thread by japanfreak years ago i think with a diy earthbox and like 6 plants--and have since moved to sticking airpots right in a big catch tray and keeping that thing filled up. It seems like with the reservoirs and such folks are achieving some exciting and healthy looking grows now!
> 
> ...


Hey bro ill show ya my new methodology in a new thread that will set the pace. This shit is off the hook. Ill start a new thread and link ya.. meditations complete!


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## PDX Joe (May 12, 2018)

Harvest time. I let them go through week 10. Fall colors!


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## PDX Joe (May 12, 2018)

Got some big colas this run.


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## Humanrob (May 12, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Got some big colas this run. View attachment 4135025


That's awesome! Nice and frosty! Those should keep your stash full for a while.


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## PDX Joe (May 12, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> That's awesome! Nice and frosty! Those should keep your stash full for a while.


Yes indeed!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 12, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Harvest time. I let them go through week 10. Fall colors!View attachment 4135016


Hell yeah man! That's a great haul! and all with what... 4 cobs? WOW!!! Awesome Job man!


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## PDX Joe (May 13, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Hell yeah man! That's a great haul! and all with what... 4 cobs? WOW!!! Awesome Job man!


Thanks I appreciate that. It was a fun grow. I think I will try one like that again. 
With the 6 COB’s, I was drawing 330 Watts at the wall for most of flower. Then I turned them up to around 400 Watts for the last couple weeks.


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## Humanrob (May 13, 2018)

PDX Joe said:


> Thanks I appreciate that. It was a fun grow. I think I will try one like that again.
> With the 6 COB’s, I was drawing 330 Watts at the wall for most of flower. Then I turned them up to around 400 Watts for the last couple weeks.


That's interesting. I'm sure it has to do with strains, but I've noticed a couple of times that my plants have started to foxtail at the end of the run (during the last three weeks), so I've started turning my lights down at the very end (or raising them). I imagine it mimics the sun at the end of the season, getting weaker not stronger. 

Best thing is to do what works for you, and what you did worked.


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## PDX Joe (May 13, 2018)

I did get a little bit of foxtails toward the end. Not too bad though. I might stick around 330 Watts next time.



Humanrob said:


> That's interesting. I'm sure it has to do with strains, but I've noticed a couple of times that my plants have started to foxtail at the end of the run (during the last three weeks), so I've started turning my lights down at the very end (or raising them). I imagine it mimics the sun at the end of the season, getting weaker not stronger.
> 
> Best thing is to do what works for you, and what you did worked.


id


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 16, 2018)

As promised some non veg pics! today is day 45 since flip to 12/12 and day 35 from flowers showing. so approx. 3 weeks left hopefully? Very happy with how things are looking! 

first 3 pics are C99, next 3 are Money Maker (stretch purple pheno), the next are also money maker but a bulky white pheno (what I have seen from this the other 2 times i have grown it) and then a group photo... the ladies wouldn't bunch together lol Enjoy!


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## CaptainSnap (May 17, 2018)

Looks super good MeanGreen!! Nice work on that sip screen! May I ask how you post your pictures in a slideshow? I upload through the image link and get full pictures which takes up too much space.

I finally choped my 1st 2 DIY SIPS today. They took a bit longer than expected and won't get the same yield but there are plenty of improvements I could do next round. I had way to many non consistent variables and started with amended soil that I was using organic synthetic notes with. Also found out I need to dial in my mositure content as I thought I was watering fine but the rootball are nearly bone dry except the bottom few inches!!










20G DIY SIPS Grape Fat Cheese









20G DIY SIPS IDK Farms something crossed with white widow! Both smell great!!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 17, 2018)

when i upload i just hit the option to post as a thumbnail instead of full pic. yours looking good too! the canopy is not as consistent as it appears I have had to add lifters of different sizes to 2 of the SIP's to keep up with purple stretch lol. And yeah for moisture you need to remember to keep the top soil moist as well. not enough to water through but enough to keep the soil consistently moist. If it gets too dry it can prevent the wicking process. I use mulch and top dress with fresh moist worm castings I also spray the leaf mulch to make sure the top soil doesnt dry out too much. Happy Harvesting man!


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## keepsake (May 17, 2018)

I wanna try 5gal diy bucket sips with living organic soil. Do they get root bound in the plastic containers? I use fabric pots to air prune the roots. I'm a bit worried about this possible issue.


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## Humanrob (May 17, 2018)

keepsake said:


> I wanna try 5gal diy bucket sips with living organic soil. Do they get root bound in the plastic containers? I use fabric pots to air prune the roots. I'm a bit worried about this possible issue.


If you are making your own SIP, you can make it with a fabric pot. That's a 5 gallon pot over a 10 gallon res.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 18, 2018)

keepsake said:


> I wanna try 5gal diy bucket sips with living organic soil. Do they get root bound in the plastic containers? I use fabric pots to air prune the roots. I'm a bit worried about this possible issue.


 A 5 gallon bucket is not going to support living organic soil from all I have read I think what I was seeing is you want at LEAST 10 gallons preferably more.... I would go through this thread and then also the ROSL thread... I changed pretty much my whole set up over time to get to the ROSL (recycled old living soil) and I still do not think I am there... I am thinking I need a 27 gallon SIP but for my space that means maybe 2 plants... and lots of lst and topping etc. Just got some Bodhi seeds and going to pop a bunch and try to do a partial pheno hunt I guess ( as long as I can not be an brown thumb with my cloning this time). We will see.. sorry to ramble lol


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## CaptainSnap (May 19, 2018)

Thanks for the information Mean Green! I look forward to round 2 of SIPS gardening!!

I've noticed my veg plants in fabric pots do better in sips than my flowering 20g plastic sips containers as the fabric helps wick. I may try a 20g fabric SIPS soon


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## Yodaweed (May 19, 2018)

I'm growing some peppers, tomatoes and cosmos flowers outdoors in my sips this year, cheers sip growers.


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## CaptainSnap (May 20, 2018)

Yodaweed don't forget to post pictures! I set up a couple sips planters for veggies this year too! One being a 100 gallon grow pot inside a kids swimming pool.

Happy Gardening All!


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## PDX Joe (May 20, 2018)

I planted one of my clones from my indoor grow outdoors last weekend. All the veggies are in too.


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## CaptainSnap (May 24, 2018)

All of your sip gardens are looking fantastic fellow green thumbs! With the rise in outdoor set-ups I decided to get my butt in gear and plant a few different sips planters with veggies. Today I just got the horseradish transplanted. Anyone here expirement with the bottom wicking agent? I have a side by side going of 1 filled with sticks and 1 filled with landscape rocks...(I used what I had laying around) I'm going to be setting up 2 large 100 gallon fabric pots this way too with kiddie pools as the water reservoir for my actually veggies

Added 3 cups of coffee ground to the bottom on the one with the sticks. Also mulched them all with comfrey and grass clippings! Rain water filled the saucers!!

Don't mind if I share do ya??

Also if you could help me with what site you are all using to share photos using the thumbnail link? I'm using post images.org and the link doesn't work!! TIA


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 30, 2018)

Day 59 since move to flower! Day 49 since pre flowers showing! Let me know what you think! predictions on dry weight? Also got a usb microscope today, this is a pic of the C99 bud i grabbed since the damn thing had nanners (nothing on any other plants not growing this again  ) no amber heads quite yet. The microscope is cool but the one thing that sucks (well i guess it doesn't enough lol) is the suction cup that is SUPPOSED to holder the damn thing to the table... will have to mount it to something heavy to hold it down. seedlings getting ready for next are some Iced Grapefruit from Female seeds, a freebie Pakistan Valley from world of seeds, and then I bought some of the fabled Bodhi gear and popped 6. These are not feminized so I am not sure what I will do with them... yet.. I guess just SIP all six and trip them and see what happens lol Happy growing SIPers!


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## Tejashidrow (May 31, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> A 5 gallon bucket is not going to support living organic soil from all I have read I think what I was seeing is you want at LEAST 10 gallons preferably more.... I would go through this thread and then also the ROSL thread... I changed pretty much my whole set up over time to get to the ROSL (recycled old living soil) and I still do not think I am there... I am thinking I need a 27 gallon SIP but for my space that means maybe 2 plants... and lots of lst and topping etc. Just got some Bodhi seeds and going to pop a bunch and try to do a partial pheno hunt I guess ( as long as I can not be an brown thumb with my cloning this time). We will see.. sorry to ramble lol


Yes
A five gallon pot will support notill organics.
It’s just easier with a bigger space.
What’s easier???
Growing in a 12 x 12 room or grow in a pc cab???
Smaller you get the tighter the parameters get.
There are folks doing notill in 1 gallon pots.
It can be done
Just gonna be a little harder
And
Plastic containers will be fine


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jun 6, 2018)

gah! these trichs will never amber! ( feeling impatient today lol)


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Jun 6, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> gah! these trichs will never amber! ( feeling impatient today lol)


i see ambers all over that, not just on leaves....looks pretty damn close to me


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jun 6, 2018)

they are close yes, but if I look under 60x the amber is just on the browning leaves... My estimation was the 9th so I guess I am not there yet... this time of harvest just gets me lol I got a digital scope and here are some trich pics... no ambering there sadly well a little on the last one


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jun 6, 2018)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> i see ambers all over that, not just on leaves....looks pretty damn close to me


love your sig btw


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jun 9, 2018)

Here we are at day 69 Since move to flower day 59 since pre flowers.... got some fox tailing on the one and nanners on the other... lots of fall colors... watching trichs daily for that nice cloudy/amber. Any day now!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Jun 22, 2018)

Hey I'm starting a new sip no till pot! It's kinda an experiment to see if I can make my life easier with waterings! If anyone has some pointers I'd be happy to listen I'm slowly making my way through this thread! 

I'm going buy some black trash bags to cover the top and start growing in my mycelium? I could use some pointers in that I can't find a ton of info on this way of doing a no till! I've always used cover crop and regular fabric pots! 

Here's my build!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Jun 22, 2018)

Question I used my living soil in the bottom wick will that be ok???


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## neroceasar (Jul 16, 2018)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> Question I used my living soil in the bottom wick will that be ok???


ehhh, i've always seen some more inert media used, be it sand, stone or soilless.


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## neroceasar (Jul 16, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> A 5 gallon bucket is not going to support living organic soil from all I have read I think what I was seeing is you want at LEAST 10 gallons preferably more.... I would go through this thread and then also the ROSL thread... I changed pretty much my whole set up over time to get to the ROSL (recycled old living soil) and I still do not think I am there... I am thinking I need a 27 gallon SIP but for my space that means maybe 2 plants.


I dont think that's entirely true. thenaturefarm has 2 gallon pots with LOS. I will agree/say that the larger you make your pot, the easier it'll be. larger pot, larger ecosystem, easier to buffer itself and will take hits(as in your learning) better. full disclosure: i'm running 40ish gallon sips. lol


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## neroceasar (Jul 16, 2018)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> Hey I'm starting a new sip no till pot! It's kinda an experiment to see if I can make my life easier with waterings! If anyone has some pointers I'd be happy to listen I'm slowly making my way through this thread!
> 
> I'm going buy some black trash bags to cover the top and start growing in my mycelium? I could use some pointers in that I can't find a ton of info on this way of doing a no till! I've always used cover crop and regular fabric pots!
> 
> Here's my build!


if ya doing no till, ya need a cover crop or mulch, preferably both. The trash bag is more of the straight alan Adkisson way, i dont think he was reusing soil and he was using a cup(1/2?) of dolomite a cubic foot! I got crazy fungus, no bag. dont forget your lacto! its become apparent to me that lacto is the best single input. I went to a sandor kats workshop a couple months back. of all the things we grow to consume, whether its organic or synthetically grown, lacto bacteria account for 90% of the surface bacteria... thats gotta count for something.. well except that cucumber passing thru the cow shit stream... lol.


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## Tim Fox (Sep 7, 2018)

Evil-Mobo said:


> All very valid points. Thanks for the input once again


wow blast from the past,, you around brother


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 12, 2018)

well thread has been dead for a while but lets see if we can get some life! In the flower room now are 2 Iced Grapefruit and one Pakistan Valley (freebie). They are getting close but tbh I lost track of when I moved these to flower so I really dont know what day they are on lol. Will keep looking through the loop and microscope for trich clouding and slight amber and then will take them down.. hoping no later then next week but will do what I have to. Next to be flowered are Bing by Bodhi! they are in the flower room now just waiting for these to finish up and will transplant them from their small fabric pots to some SIP's. Well hope all are doing well! Enjoy and let me know what you think and how much time you think is left on these ladies!


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Sep 12, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> well thread has been dead for a while but lets see if we can get some life! In the flower room now are 2 Iced Grapefruit and one Pakistan Valley (freebie). They are getting close but tbh I lost track of when I moved these to flower so I really dont know what day they are on lol. Will keep looking through the loop and microscope for trich clouding and slight amber and then will take them down.. hoping no later then next week but will do what I have to. Next to be flowered are Bing by Bodhi! they are in the flower room now just waiting for these to finish up and will transplant them from their small fabric pots to some SIP's. Well hope all are doing well! Enjoy and let me know what you think and how much time you think is left on these ladies!


lookin good


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 12, 2018)

oh i was going to post some scope pics too... you think they be done by next week? (sorry they are not better pics, I need to get a better way to stabilize this scope)


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 12, 2018)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> lookin good


thanks man!


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## Humanrob (Sep 12, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> oh i was going to post some scope pics too... you think they be done by next week? (sorry they are not better pics, I need to get a better way to stabilize this scope)


Someday I'll get one of those microscopes... I'm not good at guessing when things are going to be done, even when they are sitting in front of me. Looks like it'll be a nice harvest when you decide it's the right time.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 12, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Someday I'll get one of those microscopes... I'm not good at guessing when things are going to be done, even when they are sitting in front of me. Looks like it'll be a nice harvest when you decide it's the right time.


thanks man! It will be ok... I am really hoping soon to get some more cobs, and install my door and dark room vents and really maximize my space soon. I am trying to go with 5 x 5 cree cxb3590 cobs 250 watts 3500K so it will be approx. i cob per square foot lol maybe overkill but then I can also dial them down and run them at a lower wattage and get ubber efficient. Hoping to make an order from King bright soon. Then my harvests HOPEFULLY will be much larger. this strain i really wanted to see the differences between topping and not and see if the weight was that different. My next strain is Bing by Bodhi and growing NON feminized for the first time in a while... popping 6 beans and only getting 2 females suuucks... hopefully my clones work out but I seem to be very bad at cloning... not sure what it is... I am going to not top them this first grow and then top them to maybe 8 main kolas per plant the next run.. IF I can get the damn clones too root. lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 12, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Someday I'll get one of those microscopes... I'm not good at guessing when things are going to be done, even when they are sitting in front of me. Looks like it'll be a nice harvest when you decide it's the right time.


Also the microscope is ok ... very hard to keep stable though which I posted another thread to see if anyone has a solution they are willing to share


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## T-Time (Sep 12, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Also the microscope is ok ... very hard to keep stable though which I posted another thread to see if anyone has a solution they are willing to share


https://m.aliexpress.com/wholesale/Macro-lens-led-phone.html?channel=direct&keywords=Macro-lens-led-phone


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 12, 2018)

T-Time said:


> https://m.aliexpress.com/wholesale/Macro-lens-led-phone.html?channel=direct&keywords=Macro-lens-led-phone


I already have the scope and it is pretty decent... if I can keep it steady,but doing that is hard lol


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## Tim Fox (Sep 12, 2018)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> well thread has been dead for a while but lets see if we can get some life! In the flower room now are 2 Iced Grapefruit and one Pakistan Valley (freebie). They are getting close but tbh I lost track of when I moved these to flower so I really dont know what day they are on lol. Will keep looking through the loop and microscope for trich clouding and slight amber and then will take them down.. hoping no later then next week but will do what I have to. Next to be flowered are Bing by Bodhi! they are in the flower room now just waiting for these to finish up and will transplant them from their small fabric pots to some SIP's. Well hope all are doing well! Enjoy and let me know what you think and how much time you think is left on these ladies!


Dude your Alive!,,, i am getting ready for my winter grow,, well thinking about getting ready,, also debating ifi want to sip grow or not, i probably will just because its so freakin easy


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 12, 2018)

Tim Fox said:


> Dude your Alive!,,, i am getting ready for my winter grow,, well thinking about getting ready,, also debating ifi want to sip grow or not, i probably will just because its so freakin easy


hell yeah man! been keeping it mean and green (-: Just slow and trying to keep upping my game but is slow with the wifes legal wants ...BAH! I say ...but hey I am not the boss (-;


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## pinner420 (Sep 14, 2018)

Second layer on the greenhouse propane bottles full..


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 14, 2018)

pinner420 said:


> Second layer on the greenhouse propane bottles full..View attachment 4198452


thats awesome man!


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## Humanrob (Sep 14, 2018)

pinner420 said:


> Second layer on the greenhouse propane bottles full..View attachment 4198452


Damn, that is a nice set up. Someday I hope to have a version of that... In the autumn were I live we can get 20-25mph winds, and if I make something that stands all year it has to be able to withstand 45-50mph gusts (and sometimes sustained 30mph winds) that we get in the dead of winter. It'll take some time and money, but I hope to get there eventually. The goal would be to run a circuit out to it, and we have natural gas for heat and eventually we'll have it piped out to the yard for a grill, so maybe I can feed off of that for a gas heater in the greenhouse... It's at that point in my daydreaming that I shake my head, step back, and say 'yeah, that ain't gonna happen for a while'.


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## pinner420 (Sep 14, 2018)

Humanrob said:


> Damn, that is a nice set up. Someday I hope to have a version of that... In the autumn were I live we can get 20-25mph winds, and if I make something that stands all year it has to be able to withstand 45-50mph gusts (and sometimes sustained 30mph winds) we get in the dead of winter. It'll take some time and money, but I hope to get there eventually. The goal would be to run a circuit out to it, and we have natural gas for heat and eventually we'll have it piped out to the yard for a grill, so maybe I can feed off of that for a gas heater in the greenhouse... It's at that point in my daydreaming that I shake my head, step back, and say 'yeah, that ain't gonna happen for a while'.


Farmtek had a deap selection of reasonably priced green houses. Dont make the mistake of thinking you can build one like I did with this costco car port. You dont know how many special parts they need that you can't get anywhere but farmtek anyway..
.


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## Humanrob (Sep 14, 2018)

pinner420 said:


> Farmtek had a deap selection of reasonably priced green houses. Dont make the mistake of thinking you can build one like I did with this costco car port. You dont know how many special parts they need that you can't get anywhere but farmtek anyway...


Thanks, I've worked on farms with various types of greenhouses and I have a pretty good idea of the components and their functions, which is why I haven't started this project yet -- there is a lot to controlling temps and humidity in a space that converts (often daily) from sealed to breathable. 

My wife also has aesthetic requirements for what goes into her garden, which adds some challenges for me. So that, and not having something that will blow into the next town (or just blow apart) during a winter 'wind event' will mean I'll probably spend as much time planning this one as actually building it. But that's the fun of it, we'll figure out how to make it work when the time comes. 

In the end it will probably be an amalgam of hand built sections (the stone foundation, the post and beam frame) and store bought components (rigid polycarbonate panels, solar vent openers, etc.). I didn't mean to hijack the thread with a greenhouse discussion, sorry to the OP... oh wait, that's me...


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## CaptainSnap (Sep 20, 2018)

I haven't posted in here for several months! I was using 20 gallon plastic planters for my flowering DIY SIPS containers. I have made a slight adjustment after several runs with my old set up. I was having inconsistent water issues which caused all sorts of issues. I have now went to 15 gallons and drilled 2.5" holes around the bottoms and lined the interior of the pot with 8 oz weed fabric. Photos are of Vegging SIP Plant (3 Gallon Fabric Pot with a layer of pumice on the bottom) & Upgraded 15 Gallon SIPS Flowering Plant in plastic pot. Strain is Dr. Who


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## Tim Fox (Oct 25, 2018)

How is it going sip growers


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## Dryxi (Oct 25, 2018)

A question for anyone: Is there anything you put into the water you have in your SIP container or is it just plain water?


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## Humanrob (Oct 25, 2018)

Dryxi said:


> A question for anyone: Is there anything you put into the water you have in your SIP container or is it just plain water?


When I first started building them I wasn't very careful about keeping dirt out of the res when I put them together, and one of the ones with a good size res (about 12 gallons) started to smell a bit funky, so I put some Pond-Zyme in the res. After that, I used a hydro product called Hygrozyme, which was a bit expensive but I imagine should do no harm (you just don't want to use too much of it). I will also mention that from day one I've used air stones, so adding oxygen might impact what grows and lives in the water.

I don't have a set up where I can be very scientific about things (multiple sips with "control" groups and experimental groups), so honestly I can't say whether or not those products cleared it up -- it could have just been time. I will say that it did not hurt anything, and if I was concerned about the condition of my res water I would not hesitate to use it again. Totally anecdotal, but that's all I got.


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## projectinfo (Oct 26, 2018)

Im building a soma sip box. 

How deep would you go?

I heard 18inches is that right?
I see buildasoil has a kit thats only 12deep


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## projectinfo (Oct 26, 2018)

Dryxi said:


> A question for anyone: Is there anything you put into the water you have in your SIP container or is it just plain water?


https://www.rollitup.org/t/organic-no-till-probiotic-knf-jadam-vermicomposting-soil-mixes-sips-etc-q-a.951076/

Read the whole thread its not that long


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## Greenthumbs256 (Oct 26, 2018)

I love my home made sip, getting it ready for a new run! cooking soil now and have a cut of gg #4 and a wedding cake cut on the way! so I'm gunna do my sip pot for both and make them mothers, ready to give out tons of babies!!

I have a few questions, last round I did the Alan akkasion(I think that's how u spell it), way, with basically mycelium on top and bottom feed with plain water and em1 only! well I'm out of em1 would it work with just plain water? I would like to tweak this in a few ways but I'm not sure where to start!

first off my girls in this sip, grew faster bigger and stronger than any other plant, (I have air pots, smart pots, and reg plastic) and the sip out did them all! but midway into flower I noticed it lacking in some nutes, I thought about maybe strengthening my mix a Lil, or maybe just top dressing a few amendments before switching to flower then covering that with more compost and make another mycelium layer! 

any way, any advise or if something thinks they can help plz let me know I'm looking to perfect this the best I can!!!

pic below is gunna be my set up!


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## projectinfo (Oct 27, 2018)

projectinfo said:


> Im building a soma sip box.
> 
> How deep would you go?
> 
> ...


 For those who are looking to build. 

Heres some specs


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## Cali Cajun (Oct 27, 2018)

projectinfo said:


> For those who are looking to build.
> 
> Heres some specs


Thanks for that - what site did you find these specs on? The other specs I've seen on the Earthbox indicated it had less than 15 gallon soil capacity. If it can actually hold 15 gallons and now has a 3 gallon reservoir, I might like to try it out.


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## projectinfo (Oct 28, 2018)

Cali Cajun said:


> Thanks for that - what site did you find these specs on? The other specs I've seen on the Earthbox indicated it had less than 15 gallon soil capacity. If it can actually hold 15 gallons and now has a 3 gallon reservoir, I might like to try it out.


http://albopepper.com/sips.php

Source^


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## Cali Cajun (Oct 28, 2018)

Thanks Projectinfo! For my next grow I was hoping to move up to a couple of 20 gallon pots and give no-till a try. I could possibly go down to 15 gallons, but would rather stick with 20 if I can. The problem I'm finding is all the plastic tote SIP options won't fit two containers in my 3' x 3' tent. I'm wondering if I could get away with using my 20 gallon smart pots sitting on the corrugated drain pipe wicks in a shallow 10 gallon tote, like a modified version of the following design from the aldopepper site:


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## Greenthumbs256 (Oct 28, 2018)

hey guys i asked this already, and it possible I missed the reply but...

I'm running a sip pot, with my rols soil!
the only other time I ran this sip, I did the Alan akkasion way, with a black cover on top and grokashi under it,(plenty of mycelium), and I bottom fed with water and em1!!

I no longer have em1! 

My question is can I do this same exact set up with just plain water? will the results be close? if not what can I do, what other than water would help replace the em1! bc I had the most successful girl and harvest since I started growing!!!!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Oct 28, 2018)

also something I've seen and been thinking about!!! I've seen ppl putting air stones in their res, on sip pots! 

with using em1, it's anaerobic, so my thoughts is this would be working against each other! 

but what if I'm not using em1????


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## projectinfo (Oct 28, 2018)

Cali Cajun said:


> Thanks Projectinfo! For my next grow I was hoping to move up to a couple of 20 gallon pots and give no-till a try. I could possibly go down to 15 gallons, but would rather stick with 20 if I can. The problem I'm finding is all the plastic tote SIP options won't fit two containers in my 3' x 3' tent. I'm wondering if I could get away with using my 20 gallon smart pots sitting on the corrugated drain pipe wicks in a shallow 10 gallon tote, like a modified version of the following design from the aldopepper site:
> 
> View attachment 4223223 View attachment 4223224



Well i plan on having an anerobic self contained resevoir. 

Feed activated labs weekly to keep it clean. 

Adding bokashi, castings, compost, marlted barley seed, stuff like that 


The box design is from soma . 

Its plywood with metal braces to hold it together. Line with plastic. Put growstones or pumice then chicken wire then landscape fabric and a 8 inch netpot of peatmoss to wick the res up.

A 1 inch pipe in the corner slighlty elevated to feed water and labs weekly.

I think il be doing 15 gal singles and a 30gal rectangle for 2 plants for fun.


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## Cali Cajun (Oct 28, 2018)

I finally found a plastic tote that looks like it will work in my tent: a 27 gallon tote that is 17.5" wide by 25" long by 19.38" tall. If anyone else is trying to fit a couple of totes into a 3' x 3', tent, here's a link:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Blue-Hawk-27-Gallon-108-Quart-Gray-Tote-with-Latching-Lid/1000237413


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## pinner420 (Oct 31, 2018)




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## Greenthumbs256 (Oct 31, 2018)

pinner420 said:


> View attachment 4225280


is there a benefit to having your lights on the side like that?, I do see u just ran out of room lol but still!


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## pinner420 (Oct 31, 2018)

Plants tend to grow up.. so taking the 4ft pattern that a 600 is known to nail. I yield 2.5 pounds off this method.... simple and low maintenance...


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## Greenthumbs256 (Oct 31, 2018)

pinner420 said:


> Plants tend to grow up.. so taking the 4ft pattern that a 600 is known to nail. I yield 2.5 pounds off this method.... simple and low maintenance...


you pulled 2.5 pounds off of that single plant pictured?


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## Greenthumbs256 (Oct 31, 2018)

do you ever rotate the light or the plant?


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## pinner420 (Oct 31, 2018)

This one might get close to 3
... couple weeks for the tell of the tale... my record is 2.25. I think this one is bigger.
.. multiple root zones is the secret...


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## pinner420 (Oct 31, 2018)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> do you ever rotate the light or the plant?


Nope.. multiple points of light...


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## Greenthumbs256 (Oct 31, 2018)

I'd love to know for sure, it's very interesting!


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## pinner420 (Oct 31, 2018)

The back side...


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 1, 2018)

it is interesting, I usually try for an even canopy bc I do the normal way, but I do see the benifits all parts of your girl is the "top colas", I'm gunna have to look into this a Lil more!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 1, 2018)

how many lights are you running? and exactly what's ur method?


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## pinner420 (Nov 1, 2018)

Welcome to vertical my brother....


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## Rocket Soul (Nov 1, 2018)

pinner420 said:


> This one might get close to 3
> ... couple weeks for the tell of the tale... my record is 2.25. I think this one is bigger.
> .. multiple root zones is the secret...


Multiple root zones? How does that work?


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## pinner420 (Nov 1, 2018)

5 gallon airpot with coir. Transition to the sip and theair gap can vary from net bottom to 2 inches from bottom in this case a 12 gallon tote. No air stone. Dissolved oxygen is generated utilizing kratcky method and waterfall. So I have coir roots for safety of the plant and taste and air and water roots for hydro performance.


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## Rocket Soul (Nov 1, 2018)

pinner420 said:


> 5 gallon airpot with coir. Transition to the sip and theair gap can vary from net bottom to 2 inches from bottom in this case a 12 gallon tote. No air stone. Dissolved oxygen is generated utilizing kratcky method and waterfall. So I have coir roots for safety of the plant and taste and air and water roots for hydro performance.


Coco-sip? Nutes in the res?


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## pinner420 (Nov 1, 2018)

Rocket Soul said:


> Coco-sip? Nutes in the res?


Full line of cutting edge


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## projectinfo (Nov 4, 2018)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> is there a benefit to having your lights on the side like that?, I do see u just ran out of room lol but still!


hieght restrictions .


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## Rocket Soul (Nov 4, 2018)

pinner420 said:


> Full line of cutting edge


What do you do about salt buildup? Do you flush occasionally? Id sip with coco and synt nutes if i could get that one solved.

Edit : Or is this a PPK setup?


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 4, 2018)

hey guys I started a journal for my new sip pot and I'm also running a gg#4 cut, you guys should come see, maybe yall can help me out with some advise or some ideas maybe!

https://www.rollitup.org/t/greens-gorilla-glue-4.979073/#post-14565856


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## pinner420 (Nov 4, 2018)

Rocket Soul said:


> What do you do about salt buildup? Do you flush occasionally? Id sip with coco and synt nutes if i could get that one solved.
> 
> Edit : Or is this a PPK setup?


Hydro halo runs 15min 2x per day. One thin I learned about running autopots for a decade is that you have a 10%chance of valve failure. I'll take a pic at morning feed of the mechanics for ya. Not sure ppk means?


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 4, 2018)

hey guys maybe yall can help!

me and another person were talking on another thread about my sip pots made from a tote! and he made a good point! how to check the amount of water that's in the rez! with my set up its impossible to tell!

so I'm wondering if you guys may have some ideas? or maybe something you use to check your water? any help or ideas would be appreciated, if you guys wanna jump in on the convo it's on the last page and I'll slap a link below! thanks in advance!!

https://www.rollitup.org/t/greens-gorilla-glue-4.979073/#post-14565869


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## pinner420 (Nov 5, 2018)




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## Lightgreen2k (Nov 6, 2018)

My sip is doing well. I had to clear out some space. Currently it's day 16 in flower. There is some Orange Daiquiri,(cannarado) Tre og (top dawg) Alien Waltz (Obsoul33t) Kush Inc (Pisces). Fire Og (Og Raskal), and Biker la blance (Karma)


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## Lightgreen2k (Nov 6, 2018)

pinner420 said:


> View attachment 4225280


Is that an Air Pot? What does that have to do with SiPs if it is one?


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## pinner420 (Nov 6, 2018)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Is that an Air Pot? What does that have to do with SiPs if it is one?


That's the vessel that resides on my sip correct.


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## projectinfo (Nov 7, 2018)

Lightgreen2k said:


> My sip is doing well. I had to clear out some space. Currently it's day 16 in flower. There is some Orange Daiquiri,(cannarado) Tre og (top dawg) Alien Waltz (Obsoul33t) Kush Inc (Pisces). Fire Og (Og Raskal), and Biker la blance (Karma)
> 
> View attachment 4228058


 Wheres your mulch/cover crop?


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## Lightgreen2k (Nov 7, 2018)

projectinfo said:


> Wheres your mulch/cover crop?


You cannot see it through there. That spot hit the camera correctly where there is nothing there.

Here is the build
My other pics are on the old phone

https://www.rollitup.org/t/sip-thread-sub-irrigated-planter.904886/page-65#post-14043790

Buildasoil has a cover crop.


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## Lightgreen2k (Nov 7, 2018)

projectinfo said:


> Wheres your mulch/cover crop?






Having used this for a while the straw is not a make or break item in the sip.


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## projectinfo (Nov 7, 2018)

My new worm bin is colonizing nicely. Bit of bokashi, and malted barley 

My clackamas soil mix is cooking and is a few days behind but it will colonize a few times befor i use it in january


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## pinner420 (Nov 8, 2018)

Thursday


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 10, 2018)

I'm loving my sip, made 2 more to add to my 2 experiment sips! this thread need to take off again! lol I'm looking for way to improve what I got going on!

I'm using the probiotic way with em1 in the rez and gorkashi on top! made my sips out a of big tote, black plastic on the top, 5in deep 5in wide wick filled with my living soil! I have also added tiny holes in the floor in hopes of getting water roots easier! that's basicly about it, just letting it and the life of the sip do all the work while I sit back and try to control the growth from going insane lol! pics are my 2 old experiment sips, and the new ones I just built! trying to Scrog them and have 4 of them maxing out. 5x5 tent! it's gunnar be full, but I need to find a metal Scrog net to connect to some tomato cages! it would be nice to be able to pull one out if needed!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 10, 2018)

this is what I wanna build im just not paying 200 bucks for 4 of these! when I could probably build all 4 for the price of one! any ideas where to find that metal top?


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## projectinfo (Nov 10, 2018)

Not sure but i was wandering if water roots might be a bad idea. 

When you harvest. Do you plan on cleaning out your resevoir?

Yes em1 will probably break them down but there will still be more and more organic matter building up in your res . Taking up space if nothibg elese bad happens like clogging your feed pipe or going stagnant....

Like i said . Im just guessing here 

Why are you concerned about getting water roots ? Is your container not big enough ?


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 10, 2018)

projectinfo said:


> Not sure but i was wandering if water roots might be a bad idea.
> 
> When you harvest. Do you plan on cleaning out your resevoir?
> 
> ...


yes goal would be to clean and re set the sip each time!

and I actually i want water roots, from how I think this works, I was under the impression that was a big plus!

and if you look at the pics above, I'm pretty sure the containers are plenty big enough! at least for my indoor!


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## projectinfo (Nov 10, 2018)

How are you 


Greenthumbs256 said:


> yes goal would be to clean and re set the sip each time!
> 
> and I actually i want water roots, from how I think this works, I was under the impression that was a big plus!
> 
> and if you look at the pics above, I'm pretty sure the containers are plenty big enough! at least for my indoor!


Going to do no till if your going ro clean your res out every time?

Your only using one tote. How to you reach your res without disturbing all the soil?


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 10, 2018)

projectinfo said:


> How are you
> 
> Going to do no till if your going ro clean your res out every time?
> 
> Your only using one tote. How to you reach your res without disturbing all the soil?


I actually decided not to do no-till, but exact same system just recycling my soil each run like I've always done!

and the reasons you listed is why, running my sips take a good amount of room, so I don't wanna run into any issues half way through flower! a lot easier to just clean everything ready set the soil, and do each run like that! with the amount of work and time I'm saving with the sips, it's worth setting it up right each time! IMO


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## projectinfo (Nov 10, 2018)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> I actually decided not to do no-till, but exact same system just recycling my soil each run like I've always done!
> 
> and the reasons you listed is why, running my sips take a good amount of room, so I don't wanna run into any issues half way through flower! a lot easier to just clean everything ready set the soil, and do each run like that! with the amount of work and time I'm saving with the sips, it's worth setting it up right each time! IMO


Have you heard of the soil food web 

Teaming with microbes.

People do no till as to no disturbe the valuble soil food web

Do you plan on composting in your pots?

Or are you adding alfalfa/ bone/blood/fish meals


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## Greenthumbs256 (Nov 10, 2018)

projectinfo said:


> Have you heard of the soil food web
> 
> Teaming with microbes.
> 
> ...


yes yes yes and yes lol
I haven't read it all but most for sure, I've been doing living soil for more than a year or 2 not really sure, and as for composting no I don't do that at all, I do my own worm castings tho, and I use bu's compost! all my soil gets cooked each cycle in a big as tote, usually for 2 months maybe more depending, I chose not to do no till, bc creating that food web is really not that hard, and when recycling your already living soil, it's really not that hard to have it reset and in better condition than before, ready for each new run! at least that's how I do it man! Ive got a few different journal on here if you search for me, I'm working on my third run experimenting with these sips, and I e been re using the same soil for over 4 years now! here's my newest journal I must have posted it here a few times already now,
https://www.rollitup.org/t/greens-gorilla-glue-4.979073/


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## Tim Fox (Jan 9, 2019)

bump


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 9, 2019)

ha! I was just going to come and post on here the other day but wondered if anyone was still active from this thread! I am just about to start another run and hopefully up my LED game BIG time if I can pull the trigger on this purchase. Running some Bodhi Bing... how you been @Tim Fox !? How does the garden grow these days?? (passes the  )


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## Tim Fox (Jan 9, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> ha! I was just going to come and post on here the other day but wondered if anyone was still active from this thread! I am just about to start another run and hopefully up my LED game BIG time if I can pull the trigger on this purchase. Running some Bodhi Bing... how you been @Tim Fox !? How does the garden grow these days?? (passes the  )


hey buddy, here is my latest grow, i am 2.5 weeks into flower, its not a sip grow great to hear from you https://www.rollitup.org/t/you-can-do-that.980587/


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## Tim Fox (Jan 9, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> ha! I was just going to come and post on here the other day but wondered if anyone was still active from this thread! I am just about to start another run and hopefully up my LED game BIG time if I can pull the trigger on this purchase. Running some Bodhi Bing... how you been @Tim Fox !? How does the garden grow these days?? (passes the  )


i have enough led power to push 65 watts per square foot , hahaha, I know Tim allen effect, i am probably pushing 50 watts per right now with 6 cobs in my 2x3


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 9, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> i have enough led power to push 65 watts per square foot , hahaha, I know Tim allen effect, i am probably pushing 50 watts per right now with 6 cobs in my 2x3


I was thinking of doing basically the ability to do 50 watts per sqft in flower lol.. I have a 5 cob 250 watt rig (Cree CXB3590s at 3500k on a straight bar approx 12 inches apart at center) now I ran alongside my 600 watt hps and was going to get 4 more of those same cob kits and space them a foot apart. that would be 25 in a 5x5 lol then move my hps to a veg room and eventually convert that also when costs allow. I have been going back and forth between getting another Timber kit (SO easy and same as I got the first time) or ordering from Kingbrite on alibaba and dealing with putting everything together from scratch and shipping from China and all that... its about $169 difference (not counting the shipping cost from China which I have no idea of). I have heard that having more lights and running at lower power is actually more efficient for LEDs so i guess that is what I am going for. Also then in the future I have many modular cobs that can be used in many different growing applications if a newer tech comes along I want to but into. ....So yeah MORE POWER... oh wait... less power technically right?? hahahahaha


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 9, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> hey buddy, here is my latest grow, i am 2.5 weeks into flower, its not a sip grow great to hear from you https://www.rollitup.org/t/you-can-do-that.980587/


the grow is looking great man! cant wait to see those ladies swell up! and JEALOUS you can just go and buy clones out there! I cant wait until thats possible here... if ever... one step down shitty gov. is out!


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## Tim Fox (Jan 9, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> the grow is looking great man! cant wait to see those ladies swell up! and JEALOUS you can just go and buy clones out there! I cant wait until thats possible here... if ever... one step down shitty gov. is out!


Thanks man , it's really a trip walking in the legal stores I have been buying pre loaded disposable vape pens it's a trip


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 9, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Thanks man , it's really a trip walking in the legal stores I have been buying pre loaded disposable vape pens it's a trip


damn thats awesome! I have been thinking about trying to order something online but i dont know might be sketchy apparently people I know have done it... but eh ... maybe Ill just try to find a recipe to make my own vape oil! hahaha


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## Greenthumbs256 (Jan 10, 2019)

my sip is doing great, 64 days of veg since I got the cut, and now on 10th day of flower, she's covering a 4x4 area!

pic is from 4 days ago


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## GentleCaveman (Jan 10, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> my sip is doing great, 64 days of veg since I got the cut, and now on 10th day of flower, she's covering a 4x4 area!
> 
> pic is from 4 days agoView attachment 4262537


I always tought with organic soil the more soil space you have the better, since you increase your space for bacteria and fungi to live. Also more room for organic matter thats gonna feed your plant and of course for the roots also. People usually say you need at least 10gl of soil to see your plants true potential. Not sure how much soil your sip holds but it doesn't seem that big. Could you share your experiences about this topic because obiviously your plant is doing good in that small space.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 10, 2019)

GentleCaveman said:


> I always thought with organic soil the more soil space you have the better, since you increase your space for bacteria and fungi to live. Also more room for organic matter thats gonna feed your plant and of course for the roots also. People usually say you need at least 10gl of soil to see your plants true potential. Not sure how much soil your sip holds but it doesn't seem that big. Could you share your experiences about this topic because obviously your plant is doing good in that small space.


From all that I have read I think that it is much EASIER to maintain a healthy bio micro herd in a larger mass of soil.... I have always been under the same impression as you that you need at LEAST 10 gal to really get the most benefits out of an organic and recycled soil system. I have seen folks on here doing it with smaller volumes though, but it seems much harder to maintain and also would seem like you would need to be a lot more attentive with teas and top dressing seeing that you will not have as much food and sugars in a smaller system for your micro herd. I have been playing around with the idea of a very large SIP that basically would cover most of my 5x5 flower area and act basically as a raised bed then I could do a sea of green with clones all in ones SIP.. the part I cant really get around is how to get to the back corner for pruning without A. a tom cruise mission impossible style harness(lolz) or putting the whole thing on a lazy susan so it could spin... but then you are into moving parts and all this and that is NOT what SIPs are all about. lol ... sorry rambling... there are my 2 pennys (-:


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## GentleCaveman (Jan 10, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> From all that I have read I think that it is much EASIER to maintain a healthy bio micro herd in a larger mass of soil.... I have always been under the same impression as you that you need at LEAST 10 gal to really get the most benefits out of an organic and recycled soil system. I have seen folks on here doing it with smaller volumes though, but it seems much harder to maintain and also would seem like you would need to be a lot more attentive with teas and top dressing seeing that you will not have as much food and sugars in a smaller system for your micro herd. I have been playing around with the idea of a very large SIP that basically would cover most of my 5x5 flower area and act basically as a raised bed then I could do a sea of green with clones all in ones SIP.. the part I cant really get around is how to get to the back corner for pruning without A. a tom cruise mission impossible style harness(lolz) or putting the whole thing on a lazy susan so it could spin... but then you are into moving parts and all this and that is NOT what SIPs are all about. lol ... sorry rambling... there are my 2 pennys (-:


What if your tent was only 2x2? Like mine. I was thinking on building a SIP bed as big as my tents floor to grow a single big plant with diy scrog net on top. I got four 2' Samsung F series gen3. single row strips on the way as my new light. I'll upgrade it to 6 when I got the money, the driver I got is perfect for 6 of em(hlg-120h-c1050b).

My only concern is getting the wick dimensions right. And making the soil part removable from the water reservoir but also keep it sealed when they are connected.

If you guys could help me plan the build I'll be really happy.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Jan 10, 2019)

GentleCaveman said:


> I always tought with organic soil the more soil space you have the better, since you increase your space for bacteria and fungi to live. Also more room for organic matter thats gonna feed your plant and of course for the roots also. People usually say you need at least 10gl of soil to see your plants true potential. Not sure how much soil your sip holds but it doesn't seem that big. Could you share your experiences about this topic because obiviously your plant is doing good in that small space.


I can't say exactly how much soil it holds but I can promise you its way more than 10g my guess would be somewhere around 20g.

here's my journal/experiment. check it out, it has all the answers about what and how I do this.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/greens-gorilla-glue-4.979073/


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## GentleCaveman (Jan 10, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> I can't say exactly how much soil it holds but I can promise you its way more than 10g my guess would be somewhere around 20g.
> 
> here's my journal/experiment. check it out, it has all the answers about what and how I do this.
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/greens-gorilla-glue-4.979073/


Oh okay thats cool then, I tought it was less than 10gl so thats why I was suprised with the growth.

I really don't want to build my sip with totes, those things are too expensive for their worth at where I live. So I wanna build the whole structure myself from ground up. I don't want to waste any space that could be holding soil.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Jan 10, 2019)

GentleCaveman said:


> Oh okay thats cool then, I tought it was less than 10gl so thats why I was suprised with the growth.
> 
> I really don't want to build my sip with totes, those things are too expensive for their worth at where I live. So I wanna build the whole structure myself from ground up. I don't want to waste any space that could be holding soil.


I paid 7 bucks per tote, a 15g smart pot is like 10 bucks!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Jan 10, 2019)

GentleCaveman said:


> Oh okay thats cool then, I tought it was less than 10gl so thats why I was suprised with the growth.
> 
> I really don't want to build my sip with totes, those things are too expensive for their worth at where I live. So I wanna build the whole structure myself from ground up. I don't want to waste any space that could be holding soil.


here the link to my build...
https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-sip-pot-sub-irrigated-planter.979706/#post-14589325


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## GentleCaveman (Jan 10, 2019)

I'll check if I can find any totes that will fit in my space like I want it to. I'm still waiting for my first grow to finish. It's day 47 for oldest auto. Got around 40 more days so I'll figure something out. Thanks though.


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## GentleCaveman (Jan 10, 2019)

That's what I kinda "engineered" for now. I call it "Gravity fed Wicking Sip" or "GFWS". I stuck a serum hose to bottom of the bottle, made little holes on the hose, broke a toothpick in half and stuck it to end of the hose so it could act like "wicking medium" and help keeping the hose straight while going in the soil.. Then stabbed the poor soil with long screwdriver, fed the hose through the hole it made. Closed the bottle so water won't evaporite but made couple of holes on the cap.

I made it with the stuff I had laying around but I'm thinking on buying a real bigger hose, filling the end of it with good bit of soil and making holes on the portion of the hose thats filled with soil (imitate the wicking net pot basically). I probably would secure end of the hose with some type of screen to make sure soil doesn't come out and cause water pouring out freely instead of wicking through the soil. Then maybe attach it to bigger reservoir and keep it outside of the tent. Run the hose through passive air intake hole.


*Downsides:* I won't have water roots.

*Goodsides?:* Much easier access to reservoir. Space saved by having the option to move your reservoir outside. You can wick as many pots as you want with a single reservoir by multiple hoses, so you multiple the saving space part. You can make your reservoir as big as you want, let that sink in for a second(Are you going to Bahamas for the summer? Get a big tank, stick the hose and you good to go. Are you going to jail for growing weed? No worries, stick the hose in and boom... Just like that, you got something to smoke when you come out. No need for building a pot from tote just stick the hose into whatever pot/bed you using. You can increase/decrase (add more holes or more hoses) and move the wicking area according to how wet you want your soil whenever you want.

I think I accidentaly found something useful. Hello my highschool teacher, what do you think about that.. huh?

I will build it tomorrow, probably will post pictures for better explaining but its basic stuff.


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## GentleCaveman (Jan 10, 2019)

There is the techincal drawing for the system.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 18, 2019)

GentleCaveman said:


> There is the techincal drawing for the system.


huh how did I miss these posts!? so this is gravity system that feeds DOWN? Won't that result over watering? I also have to agree with @Greenthumbs256 as far as cost of making SIPs. I actually have it broken down for what I paid for everything to make mine....

14 Gallon roughneck tote: 2 @ $6.00 = $12.00

5” net pot: 20 @ $16.00 (1per tote = $0.80)

Zip ties pack @ $5.00

1-1/4” pvc 8’ @ $2.00 (about $0.41 per 20 inches)

Screw nuts washers @ about $5.00

Landscaping fabric about $10.00

Grommet and elbow about $5.00

3/8” bit (have)

¾” precision bit $15.00

1 3/4” hole saw $11.00

3” hole saw $13.00

Jigsaw (optional) $60.00

$91.00 (buyng hole saws, precision bit & not including jig saw)


$24.00 for each next


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 18, 2019)

GentleCaveman said:


> What if your tent was only 2x2? Like mine. I was thinking on building a SIP bed as big as my tents floor to grow a single big plant with diy scrog net on top. I got four 2' Samsung F series gen3. single row strips on the way as my new light. I'll upgrade it to 6 when I got the money, the driver I got is perfect for 6 of em(hlg-120h-c1050b).
> 
> My only concern is getting the wick dimensions right. And making the soil part removable from the water reservoir but also keep it sealed when they are connected.
> 
> If you guys could help me plan the build I'll be really happy.


Yes I very much would like to try something like this also! Let me know if you try it out or have design ideas I would love to see them!


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## bearded.beaver (Jan 18, 2019)

I'd like to have a permanent sip box in my 4x4 tent. I think having a 3x3 bed in my 4x4 tent I could grow my four legal plants and that would be my best option. Until then I will be playing with my earth boxes and building some more tote sips for veggies in my back yard.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 18, 2019)

bearded.beaver said:


> I'd like to have a permanent sip box in my 4x4 tent. I think having a 3x3 bed in my 4x4 tent I could grow my four legal plants and that would be my best option. Until then I will be playing with my earth boxes and building some more tote sips for veggies in my back yard.


hmm sounds like others are interested in this also ... maybe I will have to start brainstorming...


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## bearded.beaver (Jan 18, 2019)

I've been thinking about this for a couple years now. And I keep thinking if we can recreated nature in an indoor environment NASA can use it when we go to Mars. I'll make billions of dollars from it and freedom 35 is in right on track. haha easy street


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## bearded.beaver (Jan 18, 2019)

I'd really love to have a bay window with a no till sips box in front of it and be able to grow with sun light and maybe some led lights to help offset cloudy days or veg earlier in the season. That's my ideas of a great way to utilize sips


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 18, 2019)

Just fiddling with some numbers based on the earthtainer design I use which is a 14 gallon tote that uses a 5 inch net pot. It holds approx. 10 gallons of soil and 4 gallons of water.. using these numbers using a 4x4 model... I was thinking for height savings we make the soil bed 1.5 feet high.. this gives us 24 cubic feet of soil per the converter I found online that is approx 153 gallons of soil (can grow a monster in that! lol) now per the previously mentioned numbers for my earthtainer (and I don't know if this would upscale correctly but just sheer math wise) we would want a water res that would hold approx. 38 gallons (this might be far far too much but again sheer upscaling the math) and 55 inches of net pots. if we somehow had a res that was the entire 4x4 footprint we would want it to be approx 4 - 6 inches (this would also leave some air pocket room). 

I think a more reasonable idea would be to basically build a raised garden bed and then in the bottom you drill holes (you could do 11 holes 5" net pots each to get your 55" worth of wicking) and then you have multiple rez's on the bottom so you don't need to work around trying to find or make a water tight 4' X 4' x 6" plastic tote lol ... let me know what you think of my first rough draft!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 18, 2019)

bearded.beaver said:


> I'd really love to have a bay window with a no till sips box in front of it and be able to grow with sun light and maybe some led lights to help offset cloudy days or veg earlier in the season. That's my ideas of a great way to utilize sips


you could totally do that! I will be doing that once I no longer have kids in my house hahaha


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## GentleCaveman (Jan 18, 2019)

The idea I shared earlier doesn't work %100. So my highschool teacher was right. Cool technical drawing tho. Thats what happens when you eat pot cookie at 6 in the morning.


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## bearded.beaver (Jan 18, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> From all that I have read I think that it is much EASIER to maintain a healthy bio micro herd in a larger mass of soil.... I have always been under the same impression as you that you need at LEAST 10 gal to really get the most benefits out of an organic and recycled soil system. I have seen folks on here doing it with smaller volumes though, but it seems much harder to maintain and also would seem like you would need to be a lot more attentive with teas and top dressing seeing that you will not have as much food and sugars in a smaller system for your micro herd. I have been playing around with the idea of a very large SIP that basically would cover most of my 5x5 flower area and act basically as a raised bed then I could do a sea of green with clones all in ones SIP.. the part I cant really get around is how to get to the back corner for pruning without A. a tom cruise mission impossible style harness(lolz) or putting the whole thing on a lazy susan so it could spin... but then you are into moving parts and all this and that is NOT what SIPs are all about. lol ... sorry rambling... there are my 2 pennys (-:



I think the lazy Susan idea is right on I want to do the same in a 4x4. And if the box itself was round and was able to turn on a lazy Susan that would be great. And if you had poles or posts attached to the box so you could have a scrog that turns with soil and plant.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 18, 2019)

bearded.beaver said:


> I think the lazy Susan idea is right on I want to do the same in a 4x4. And if the box itself was round and was able to turn on a lazy Susan that would be great. And if you had poles or posts attached to the box so you could have a scrog that turns with soil and plant.


having something that can turn though with that much weight on it I don't think would be cheap.. I mean maybe you could just put the whole thing on casters and spin it that way? hmmm fabricating circles sucks also lol would involve bending metal or wood to some very specific arcs OR using very small specifically lengthed straight pieces to make a large octagon, or whatever you would call the shape you would end up having to make with like 20 small straight pieces lol. The idea of SIPs for me is the KISS method and that idea.. while cool... is not that lol but that does not mean I have given up on it though because having a giant bed of plants that is turnable for pruning would be amazing!


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## budLIFE60 (Jan 27, 2019)

Hey all just getting back into home growing and have a couple of earthbox sip containers laying around I'm gonna be using. Was planning to put two plants in one EB container and was wondering if anyone has done with before? How did it turn out? 
Gonna be using some TLO soil only adding water. 

Heres a shot of my plants now. I've got 3 sour stars, 1 black cherry punch, 1 watermelon jaridos and 1 gorilla glue 4 all started from clone.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 27, 2019)

budLIFE60 said:


> Hey all just getting back into home growing and have a couple of earthbox sip containers laying around I'm gonna be using. Was planning to put two plants in one EB container and was wondering if anyone has done with before? How did it turn out?
> Gonna be using some TLO soil only adding water.
> 
> Heres a shot of my plants now. I've got 3 sour stars, 1 black cherry punch, 1 watermelon jaridos and 1 gorilla glue 4 all started from clone.
> ...


oh yeah lots of folks on here growing GREAT things with the earthbox! I think @Tim Fox I am pretty sure uses those. I just made Inntainers using rubbermaids and the PDF earlier in the thread. welcome to the easiest growing ever!


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## GentleCaveman (Jan 27, 2019)

I'm planing to build something like this to grow 4 autos in 2x2. Aiming for atleast 120lt of total soil.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 28, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> oh yeah lots of folks on here growing GREAT things with the earthbox! I think @Tim Fox I am pretty sure uses those. I just made Inntainers using rubbermaids and the PDF earlier in the thread. welcome to the easiest growing ever!


right on, those intainers are massive and so so good,, so much soil too,, those are going to rock for you

Yes i did several grows in my Earthbox with 2 plants in it, works Fatastic, make sure to set the whole thing in a tray so when the water over flows from the air gap it has something to catch it, or it will run onto the floor, depending on where your grow room is you may not want free flowing water , i put a small cookie sheet type thing under mine and caught the run off , and just dumped it in the sink when it was finished dripping,, grew some really good bud in that thing


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## budLIFE60 (Jan 30, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> right on, those intainers are massive and so so good,, so much soil too,, those are going to rock for you
> 
> Yes i did several grows in my Earthbox with 2 plants in it, works Fatastic, make sure to set the whole thing in a tray so when the water over flows from the air gap it has something to catch it, or it will run onto the floor, depending on where your grow room is you may not want free flowing water , i put a small cookie sheet type thing under mine and caught the run off , and just dumped it in the sink when it was finished dripping,, grew some really good bud in that thing


Awesome thanks for the reassurance @Tim Fox, cant wait to give these a try. I've made a couple of sips in the past with great results so I'm excited to get these EB going. Even more excited to be growing at home again! 
I'll post some pics here when I've got them transplanted. 

You still growing in sips?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 30, 2019)

gonna be vegging out some new sprouts in SIPS into (hopefully) moms, take some clones add to some more sips in flower room and see which are females... I had been using leaves as cover but was thinking about a cover crop.... what does everyone use?


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## Tim Fox (Jan 30, 2019)

budLIFE60 said:


> Awesome thanks for the reassurance @Tim Fox, cant wait to give these a try. I've made a couple of sips in the past with great results so I'm excited to get these EB going. Even more excited to be growing at home again!
> I'll post some pics here when I've got them transplanted.
> 
> You still growing in sips?


Not this grow ,I am in 4 gallon plastic pots this grow it's been kinda nice for me to be able to lift the plants out of the box for various reasons,


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 6, 2019)

so I have not used my sips in a while but left all the soil and top dressing... I went and started cleaning to ensure the res was ok... they had basically turned to worm farms and the bottoms covered in casting lol.. well move all that back to the top wash re ammend and repeat!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 13, 2019)

hate to see this thread die! been over week, since the last post!

heres my probiotic sip, gg4, 1 plant 4x4 scrog. Lil less than 3 weeks till chop


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 13, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> hate to see this thread die! been over week, since the last post!
> 
> heres my probiotic sip, gg4, 1 plant 4x4 scrog. Lil less than 3 weeks till chopView attachment 4281680 View attachment 4281681 View attachment 4281682


Gorgeous gals you have there! My current round is still small but will be moved to sips soon and made into moms then their clones move to SIPs for sexing! Hope to get the rest of the Sips cleaned out tonight and the little ladies moved in!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 13, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Gorgeous gals you have there! My current round is still small but will be moved to sips soon and made into moms then their clones move to SIPs for sexing! Hope to get the rest of the Sips cleaned out tonight and the little ladies moved in!


I'm actually finishing up the gg4 in 3 weeks, and I've just started another journal on the wedding cake, running her the same way! should be a beauty!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 13, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Gorgeous gals you have there! My current round is still small but will be moved to sips soon and made into moms then their clones move to SIPs for sexing! Hope to get the rest of the Sips cleaned out tonight and the little ladies moved in!


I also guess I should mention that's only one lady, lol no gals! 64 day veg 64 day flower!

much older pic, but it shows what u need to see at least, stalk much be at least 3 times thicker now!



I believe this video is about 2 weeks old, but does more justice than a pic, but still nothing compared to on person!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 13, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> I also guess I should mention that's only one lady, lol no gals! 64 day veg 64 day flower!
> 
> much older pic, but it shows what u need to see at least, stalk much be at least 3 times thicker now!
> 
> ...


nice! that is a very even canopy also! props to you my man!


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## Humanrob (Feb 13, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> hate to see this thread die! been over week, since the last post!
> 
> heres my probiotic sip, gg4, 1 plant 4x4 scrog. Lil less than 3 weeks till chopView attachment 4281680 View attachment 4281681 View attachment 4281682


Last year I did a GG4 in a SIP/SCROG combo. I think it was 5 gallons of soil over 10 gallons of water in a 3x3 tent. I look forward to hearing how much bud you get from that one.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 13, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> Last year I did a GG4 in a SIP/SCROG combo. I think it was 5 gallons of soil over 10 gallons of water in a 3x3 tent. I look forward to hearing how much bud you get from that one.


I'm hoping for a pound, but we will see!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 13, 2019)

I am going to be growing some Bing by Bodhi it is so freaking good!


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## Humanrob (Feb 13, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> I'm hoping for a pound, but we will see!


From where I'm sitting, it looks like the weight is there. GG4, even when scrog'd produces nice dense buds. I only got 6.8oz from mine, I was shooting for 8 but had some issues with that grow. A 4x4 = 16sf, almost twice the area of a 3x3, so I would say a pound is definitely doable. 

I posted about that grow back when it happened, found a pic -here- if that link works. Sifting through old notes, mine only vegged for about 47 days, and I was experimenting with training techniques, trying to keep it really short.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 14, 2019)

well here some pics of the progress I made last night after work still 2 more ladies that need to go into their homes as you can see they really need it... Sadly I have been neglecting them because of freaking insane busy at work. But the other 2 ladies will be going in today... Not really sure where I am going to squeeze in TWO more SIP's in there lol. I will have to get busy putting together my other COB fixture which is basically a copy of this one. (5 CXB3590's 250 watts). Once they get used to their new homes I will be topping multiple times to make many viable clone sites. I welcome any advise or constructive criticism! thanks all and keep the SIP thread alive!!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

hey guys maybe some of yall can help, me and few ppl have been working on these probiotic sips, we know it works and is really something incredible just because of the results!

problem is no one really understand 100% how or why! if we could things could be adjusted to get even better! so I'm looking for ppl and help, that may be able to pop in share some info and help make this shits even better, although it's already very impressive! but I don't know enough!

https://www.rollitup.org/t/greens-wedding-cake-sip-probiotics.984543/page-3#post-14745712


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

all the info I've been able to find in the last year since I first heard about this is there! it takes sips to whole new level guys!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> I'm doing a couple right now. One is based on a 14 gallon Rubbermaid container inside of an 18 gallon. The other is tall narrow #7 pot mated to a 5 gallon bucket. Both still need to have their drain holes drilled -- btw, how much (in inches) of an air space should I leave between the water line and the bottom of the soil container?
> 
> View attachment 3648300 View attachment 3648299 View attachment 3648298 View attachment 3648306 View attachment 3648305 View attachment 3648301 View attachment 3648302 View attachment 3648304


I'm just now realizing your the person I stole my diy sip design from way back when! lmfao well in all fairness I never claimed it to be mine lol, I knew I got the idea from somewhere! thank you man, I can't say I've ever been able to thank you! lol now I can give credit lol, if that's your original design?


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## Humanrob (Feb 14, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> well here some pics of the progress I made last night after work still 2 more ladies that need to go into their homes as you can see they really need it... Sadly I have been neglecting them because of freaking insane busy at work. But the other 2 ladies will be going in today... Not really sure where I am going to squeeze in TWO more SIP's in there lol. I will have to get busy putting together my other COB fixture which is basically a copy of this one. (5 CXB3590's 250 watts). Once they get used to their new homes I will be topping multiple times to make many viable clone sites. I welcome any advise or constructive criticism! thanks all and keep the SIP thread alive!!


Maybe just grow them in regular pots for a side-by-side sip/non-sip comparison? Maybe that's nothing new, I haven't been around here regularly, LOL... regular pots would take up less floor space. Just sayin'


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## Humanrob (Feb 14, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> I'm just now realizing your the person I stole my diy sip design from way back when! lmfao well in all fairness I never claimed it to be mine lol, I knew I got the idea from somewhere! thank you man, I can't say I've ever been able to thank you! lol now I can give credit lol, if that's your original design?


I "stole" it from someone else, I'm sure. I like to think of it as "open source". I think my first ones were amalgams of other ones I read about, I made a handful of different designs early on.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> I "stole" it from someone else, I'm sure. I like to think of it as "open source". I think my first ones were amalgams of other ones I read about, I made a handful of different designs early on.


lol oh well we all sharing any way! but hey thanks still!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> Maybe just grow them in regular pots for a side-by-side sip/non-sip comparison? Maybe that's nothing new, I haven't been around here regularly, LOL... regular pots would take up less floor space. Just sayin'


I have before not wasting my time any more lol, I'm already proven it works to myself just trying to understand why! or how! granted I have a good idea for most, but I could use some guys that really understand if you know what i mean!

oh my bad u wasn't talking to me lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 14, 2019)

I have basically been doing that I think for a few years also


Humanrob said:


> Maybe just grow them in regular pots for a side-by-side sip/non-sip comparison? Maybe that's nothing new, I haven't been around here regularly, LOL... regular pots would take up less floor space. Just sayin'


Eh I have done all the gimic pots.. SIPs are best.. I even have a set of air pots that cost me like 100 bucks back when they first came out and were all the hype.. I have hempy buckets fabric pots... I have tried all pretty much but DWC and aerogrowing which since I want to be all organic I dont really think is viable... I wouldnt mine trying out an aquaponics type thing that sounds fun..but dam so much work hahaha and my luck.. the ones in the smaller pots would be the females I really wanted to keep lol I just need to be not lazy and build my new light lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 14, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> I have before not wasting my time any more lol, I'm already proven it works to myself just trying to understand why! or how! granted I have a good idea for most, but I could use some guys that really understand if you know what i mean!
> 
> oh my bad u wasn't talking to me lol


HA! Yeah exactly... never going back! I also have been looking through your thread.. I think you are running a very similar soil mix as myself... I have recently added ground gypsum as well due to a lot of the organic guys on here swearing by its value. I cant wait to get something into flower! but will probably be close to another month for me


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> HA! Yeah exactly... never going back! I also have been looking through your thread.. I think you are running a very similar soil mix as myself... I have recently added ground gypsum as well due to a lot of the organic guys on here swearing by its value. I cant wait to get something into flower! but will probably be close to another month for me


here's my newest mix, been working on it for years, now I need to adjust it for these sips, and probiotics!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 14, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> here's my newest mix, been working on it for years, now I need to adjust it for these sips, and probiotics!
> View attachment 4282482


if you dont yet have one I would advise you to get a worm farm! nothing better for living soil then fresh worm castings! AND it makes the best compost teas for breeding that micro herd!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 14, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> here's my newest mix, been working on it for years, now I need to adjust it for these sips, and probiotics!
> View attachment 4282482


here is my soil mix... approx... it has been used once or twice and re amended

pete moss 7.5 gal
worm castings 3.75 gal
compost (sadly i had to use organic promix here as i had moved and lost my established pile) 3.75 gal
perlite 7.5 gal
lime 3 cups
glacial rock dust 12 cups
thats my base
then i mix my amendments together as below
kelp meal 6 cups
epsoma tomato tone 3 cups
alfalfa meal 3 cups
neem meal 3 cups
crab meal 3 cups
finely ground egg shells about 3 cups
azomite about a cup

I then take a total of 7.5 cups of the amendment mix and add it to the base and let it sit for at least 4 weeks...

I have also recently added 2 year composted cattle manure as well as the gypsum I was talking about... I think too some more ground oyster shell since I was seeing Calcium def.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

yes I do run one, but I don't do teas anymore either, believe me. if u run a sip, with this probiotics crap, u won't ever make one again either, I'm not a very good grower! and look at the results I'm getting!

this is what I get when I use my skills to save a girl!

now this is what I get when I go get high don't touch a dam thing, and mother nature and this method do what ever the hell it is it does!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

I really can't say any more than that! if my talentless ass can do that, imagine what some of you actually skilled growers could do...


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

and I worked my ass off trying to make that dam shit tumbling stick into a plant! I'm prolly going to feed it to my worms lmfao!

that big monster i didn't do a dam thing, I topped the rez with em1 and water when it went dry, nothing else! well it also has to be set up, but still don't take my word go see for yourself! all you organic growers already have everything!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 14, 2019)

so when you say probiotics.. do you just mean like living soil that has a nice layer of fungi on top under the top dressing? or is there something more too it...


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

just go read the first 2 pages of that thread, everything I've been able to find in a year is laid out for everyone, as I've said I don't really understand it, but the results don't lie!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 14, 2019)

here is my last ladies that were flowered out... so yes I do understand the amazing results of SIPs and living recycled soil.. (-:


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> here is my last ladies that were flowered out... so yes I do understand the amazing results of SIPs and living recycled soil.. (-:


if you can help the rest of us understand that would be awesome! and we could make it better, but thats the rock and the hard place I'm stuck between


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 14, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> just go read the first 2 pages of that thread, everything I've been able to find in a year is laid out for everyone, as I've said I don't really understand it, but the results don't lie!


aaah I see so you have a very heavy layer of top dress fungi AND adding bacteria to your rez interesting... I sometimes have added Aloe to my rez as well as an air stone but I dont know that I want to add those EMs to my rez. Each to his own of course... I do think I will try something to get my top dress layer more fungi active as I think that could use some work on my grows.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> aaah I see so you have a very heavy layer of top dress fungi AND adding bacteria to your rez interesting... I sometimes have added Aloe to my rez as well as an air stone but I dont know that I want to add those EMs to my rez. Each to his own of course... I do think I will try something to get my top dress layer more fungi active as I think that could use some work on my grows.


it's like 2 or 3 layers depending how big u wanna go but yes


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

and your right no airstone if using em1, it kills the things in it lol life!!!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 14, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> if you can help the rest of us understand that would be awesome! and we could make it better, but thats the rock and the hard place I'm stuck between


I think you seem to have a pretty good handle on it.. and your results speak for themselves! basically you want a lot of microbes and also a balance of good fungi in your soil. Feed the soil not the plant and your plant will be happy and do the rest man! Soooo many people making growing far far more complicated then it needs to be... there is a girl on here growing MONSTERS with just cow shit and tomato tone in upper WI outside... lol


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

I'm sure there is many way we can go about this but from what I've found it doesn't get any easier than this way, into reason I have an issue with the air stone, is bc what if it goes out? I'd never know lol! my em1 won't just stop working lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 14, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> and your right no airstone if using em1, it kills the things in it lol life!!!


yeah you are going for that no oxygen bacteria which is usually what people try to steer away from. Very interesting man. I will for sure adapt some of this on these ladies (-:


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

if u run a side by side plz tag me, I can't I would love to but just cant,


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 14, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> if u run a side by side plz tag me, I can't I would love to but just cant,


I dont think I would ever run a NON SIP side by side ... but I could see trying my traditional way and then trying the bacteria added to the rez way that you have going on and see what happens..maybe I will prep that for the clones I am going to take from these that sounds like something fun to try out!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I dont think I would ever run a NON SIP side by side ... but I could see trying my traditional way and then trying the bacteria added to the rez way that you have going on and see what happens..maybe I will prep that for the clones I am going to take from these that sounds like something fun to try out!


no I mean ur version of sip vs mine, or what I'm trying lol it ain't mine

that would be awesome plz tag me or send me a link anything lol! I'd love to see, as I've said I don't know much, so I'm positive beyond a doubt somebody can rework this and make it 10 times better!


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## Humanrob (Feb 14, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I wouldnt mine trying out an aquaponics type thing that sounds fun..but dam so much work hahaha


That's a future hobby of mine I hope, something simple like some autos (stay short and can handle all kinds of light changes) growing over a tank with simple hardy gold fish... something we could keep in the living room and enjoy. I have some preliminary drawings of converting an armoire or tv cabinet where the plants are enclosed so that the lights don't make the living room look like a stadium on game night, but the tank in the bottom is exposed... some day. I guess that'll need it's own thread


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 14, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> That's a future hobby of mine I hope, something simple like some autos (stay short and can handle all kinds of light changes) growing over a tank with simple hardy gold fish... something we could keep in the living room and enjoy. I have some preliminary drawings of converting an armoire or tv cabinet where the plants are enclosed so that the lights don't make the living room look like a stadium on game night, but the tank in the bottom is exposed... some day. I guess that'll need it's own thread


I have a friend that tried it, didn't last long but honestly he don't have a passion and gave up very easily in my opinion, I've never been interested in trying to keep fish alive lol! I got a hard enough time trying to keep myself alive!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 14, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> That's a future hobby of mine I hope, something simple like some autos (stay short and can handle all kinds of light changes) growing over a tank with simple hardy gold fish... something we could keep in the living room and enjoy. I have some preliminary drawings of converting an armoire or tv cabinet where the plants are enclosed so that the lights don't make the living room look like a stadium on game night, but the tank in the bottom is exposed... some day. I guess that'll need it's own thread


that sounds freaking sweet! I had heard of the idea loooong ago like in a 90's high times the first time and I have wanted to try it out every since lol


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 16, 2019)

not much longer now! got some leaves yellowing off, next time I really need to upgrade to a 30g sip! need to get started building lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 17, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> not much longer now! got some leaves yellowing off, next time I really need to upgrade to a 30g sip! need to get started building lol


Shit yeah man! Looking great!!!


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## Lrn2Yield (Feb 19, 2019)

Hey sip’rs, hope you don’t mind me tagging along here, as I’m planning my build now for the up coming season. I’ve been doing lots of reading through these forums and I’ve noticed there are many ways to achieve great results in sips.

I’m in a 4x4 tent, usually veg about a month under 400w of my, then I have a 630cmh for flower.

Hopefully some can help me with some questions I have ..

My options for the build are: 2x 12g totes, one stacked inside the other , second option would be a 12g inside an 18 gal, or I could use my fabric pots, on top 10 gal containers. If I was doing tote inside tote, I’d probably run two? Would 4 x 7 gal fabric pot setup get too crowded in a 4x4 with sips? What size wick would I use for these setups? What’s the best medium to use, and at what ratio? Do you guys use your wick as support for the soil container to sit on? I have seen builds where they cut out the inside of the lid, supported by pvc, or the wick. Just trying to get a feel for my best way to do things.

Guys who run the fabric pots, so you line the bottom of your pots with wicking medium before the soil? Or does your soil sit right on top of the wick container?

Going to be using organic soil for these as well.

Thanks guys!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 19, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I dont think I would ever run a NON SIP side by side ... but I could see trying my traditional way and then trying the bacteria added to the rez way that you have going on and see what happens..maybe I will prep that for the clones I am going to take from these that sounds like something fun to try out!


hey man, I'm starting a comparison in a few weeks of my version on the sips, using probiotics, only difference will be, one gets mammoth p, other wont, if u or anyone is interested I'll share links when it starts!

fyi. If anyone has some good info on the mammoth p they can share with me plz do! I don't know much! also with that said, if you haven't read a tad about my method I've been working on, then that's very important to atleast know the basics of what I'm doing for any of this to make sense! links on my page, also in the thread a page or so back!

also I could use some advise or pointers to help run this comparison if anyone doesn't mind helping me out with this! I'd greatly appreciate it, I don't even mind showing my thanks I have some extra bodhi f2 gear I can send you way to say thanks for the help!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 19, 2019)

Lrn2Yield said:


> Hey sip’rs, hope you don’t mind me tagging along here, as I’m planning my build now for the up coming season. I’ve been doing lots of reading through these forums and I’ve noticed there are many ways to achieve great results in sips.
> 
> I’m in a 4x4 tent, usually veg about a month under 400w of my, then I have a 630cmh for flower.
> 
> ...


personally I went with the Inntainer design since it has been around for a very long time and proven results outside of these applications also. Super easy to build and there are step by step instructions earlier in this thread (I can re post if you want the PDF and don't want to dig). One thing you want to be careful of is the wick size so it does not over or under saturate. let me know if you want a re post of the inntainer design. I has step by step instructions for 18 gal and 14 gal tote versions. Obviously this is not the ONLY way to go but again seems tried and true.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 19, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> hey man, I'm starting a comparison in a few weeks of my version on the sips, using probiotics, only difference will be, one gets mammoth p, other wont, if u or anyone is interested I'll share links when it starts!
> 
> fyi. If anyone has some good info on the mammoth p they can share with me plz do! I don't know much! also with that said, if you haven't read a tad about my method I've been working on, then that's very important to atleast know the basics of what I'm doing for any of this to make sense! links on my page, also in the thread a page or so back!
> 
> also I could use some advise or pointers to help run this comparison if anyone doesn't mind helping me out with this! I'd greatly appreciate it, I don't even mind showing my thanks I have some extra bodhi f2 gear I can send you way to say thanks for the help!


nice that sounds like it should be interesting man! I know nothing about mammoth P to help you with unfortunately. I did look a bit on your thread but have not checked it all out but will do that before I try to emulate it for sure.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 19, 2019)

it's a good read, all important stuff is on the first two pages after that, it's a lot of ppl talking and having a good time, with updates and discussing all this, still some good info, but only the first 2 pages are a must to read to understand! but most can't stop after that second page lol!


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## Lrn2Yield (Feb 19, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> personally I went with the Inntainer design since it has been around for a very long time and proven results outside of these applications also. Super easy to build and there are step by step instructions earlier in this thread (I can re post if you want the PDF and don't want to dig). One thing you want to be careful of is the wick size so it does not over or under saturate. let me know if you want a re post of the inntainer design. I has step by step instructions for 18 gal and 14 gal tote versions. Obviously this is not the ONLY way to go but again seems tried and true.


Hey there @meangreengrowinmachine , 

Yes, I would very much appreciate that PDF if you know where to find it off hand. I know at some point over the past few weeks I have read info on the Inntainer, and it looked like a pretty easy build. If it's easy, and effective count me in!

After reading, and having a chat with a fellow member here, I think I'm going to do two 18g sips with a scrog. I only have a 4x4 with a 6.5' height restriction so I can't get too out of hand or I'll have an out of control jungle going haha. I'm sure the PDF will have wick sizes etc, but what is the generally consensus on wick size for 18g ? What you guys all using to hold the wicking medium? Netpots, perforated drain tube? PVC?

Still undecided on the medium .. I've read 50/50 coco/perlite, sand, perlite only, or even your soil medium packed in there will work. I'm sure once it all falls into place, I'll be glad I took all the right steps to at least start in the right direction.

Thanks for your response bud.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 19, 2019)

Lrn2Yield said:


> Hey there @meangreengrowinmachine ,
> 
> Yes, I would very much appreciate that PDF if you know where to find it off hand. I know at some point over the past few weeks I have read info on the Inntainer, and it looked like a pretty easy build. If it's easy, and effective count me in!
> 
> ...


this gives you ALL you want man! it literally outlines and answers ALL of that with pics and these work GREAT here is a pic of mine built before.... and the amazingness at the end (-: enjoy!!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 20, 2019)

what kind of ideas does everyone have for keeping their soil from falling into the rez?

when i first started I used a a black mesh, almost like what's on window screens. it worked great, problem is it stopped the roots from growing into the rez, as well as the soil!

so I'm looking for ideas, that will help to not let the soil slip into the rez along the sides, but will still allow the roots to grown into the soil!

important things to me, would be obviously none or as little as possible amount of soil getting into the rez; roots able to grow into the rez; and lasty nothing permanent! at the end of each cycle I like to be able to break down my sips piece by piece and clean it out, to restart! so as I could glue or tape or somehow seal the sides where the floor (or the top of rez) would be sealed to the walls, I can't break that apart each time! 

pics below are my very first design with the window mesh stuff and the roots after harvest, that I no longer use! (I'm sure you can see why) and also my newest 30g sip. I just built to hold 2 ladies! if you look at the sides you can see what I'm talking about!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 20, 2019)

also I feel I need to Point out, that I use a cheese cloth in the net pots, bc the holes are way to big, and if i didnt it would pour out my soil and fill my rez with soil in no time! it's and easy fix, the roots can still grow through the floor!


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## raggyb (Feb 20, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> what kind of ideas does everyone have for keeping their soil from falling into the rez?
> 
> when i first started I used a a black mesh, almost like what's on window screens. it worked great, problem is it stopped the roots from growing into the rez, as well as the soil!
> 
> ...


I don't know if my wick is going to work because I'm doing this for the first time but your question makes me think about what I'm trying. I'm making a tall SIP and my wick is not tall enough to get to the bottom so I thought of hanging cloth strips from the bottom of it which I hope would transfer the water to the soil when the level gets low. Which makes me think for your question that you could loosely weave some cloth strips around the sides of the pots too that would hold the soil in better.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Feb 20, 2019)

raggyb said:


> I don't know if my wick is going to work because I'm doing this for the first time but your question makes me think about what I'm trying. I'm making a tall SIP and my wick is not tall enough to get to the bottom so I thought of hanging cloth strips from the bottom of it which I hope would transfer the water to the soil when the level gets low. Which makes me think for your question that you could loosely weave some cloth strips around the sides of the pots too that would hold the soil in better.


that actually could work! for my problem, can't say how well it would work for you tho!


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## Serverchris (Feb 20, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> what kind of ideas does everyone have for keeping their soil from falling into the rez?
> 
> when i first started I used a a black mesh, almost like what's on window screens. it worked great, problem is it stopped the roots from growing into the rez, as well as the soil!
> 
> ...


Why dont you use smartpot material, roots grow through those easily but no dirt will get through.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 21, 2019)

honestly I use net pots and pack with wick with pete moss (as is recommended in the PDF I posted earlier) and have never had any issues.. I guess the one thing that did happen was I didnt use few of the SIPs for a while and had no water in the rez... the rez the whole thing eventually just turned into a small scale worm farm with the worms congregating at the bottom of the soil bin portion. The rez became a worm casting catcher! they were kind of a pain to disassemble and clean but got all those good castings mixed right back in!


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## Getgrowingson (Feb 21, 2019)

I have been interested in doing these for a while with my organic soil but want automation wherever possible with full time as well as on call work and three young children to deal with before I am “allowed” to tend the grow. What I am interested in is have any of the SIP gurus here used tubing almost like a current culture setup to attach all the sips in a room to a “control bucket” basically a float valve set to the desired water level for the sips so I don’t need to monitor water levels for each individual SIP? I have wanted to do this for a while but my dripper and mesh pots were keeping it low maintenance but fungus gnats and over watering are almost unavoidable as I always run different strains in the same room (variety spice of life type thing) . Anyway if anyone has done this and can comment or point out any pitfalls in my idea that would be awesome. I want the hydro growth with the flavour and taste that the water only soil provides! Thanks all


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 21, 2019)

Getgrowingson said:


> I have been interested in doing these for a while with my organic soil but want automation wherever possible with full time as well as on call work and three young children to deal with before I am “allowed” to tend the grow. What I am interested in is have any of the SIP gurus here used tubing almost like a current culture setup to attach all the sips in a room to a “control bucket” basically a float valve set to the desired water level for the sips so I don’t need to monitor water levels for each individual SIP? I have wanted to do this for a while but my dripper and mesh pots were keeping it low maintenance but fungus gnats and over watering are almost unavoidable as I always run different strains in the same room (variety spice of life type thing) . Anyway if anyone has done this and can comment or point out any pitfalls in my idea that would be awesome. I want the hydro growth with the flavour and taste that the water only soil provides! Thanks all


I mean,... I left for a week on vacation at the END of flower and topped them off and then were all gorgeous when I got back.... the point of SIPs imo is LACK of the need for all that automation! No pumps to break and ruin your crop or water lines to leak or anything... SET IT AND FORGET IT!!! lol or KISS (-:


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## Lrn2Yield (Feb 23, 2019)

Picked up all the goodies to build my sip today. Next weekend project, and hopefully in the next month and a half it'll have warmed up enough to get going on another grow. Been -25/-30c here for weeks, depressing. 

Was back and forth on sizes for a couple of days, but decided on a 28 gal tote. Should hold enough medium for one or two plants under a 4x4 I think? Not sure how well it's going to work, but going to line the wick with fabric from a smart pot to keep as much soil out as possible and allow roots through. Should be a fun build, one which wouldn't have happened had I not come across this thread, so thanks for all the good info here .. Great read, and learned lots.


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## Jesselikes2grow (Feb 24, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> what kind of ideas does everyone have for keeping their soil from falling into the rez?
> 
> when i first started I used a a black mesh, almost like what's on window screens. it worked great, problem is it stopped the roots from growing into the rez, as well as the soil!
> 
> ...


I'll be using garden burlap, cheap stuff. Couple layers of it holds soil fine and it's open enough for roots to go through. Its what we used to wrap plants root balls for sale and transplant when i was a kid. Not mmj then, baby trees, tomatoes, beans, etc and youd just plant the burlap and all. It also does a great job of acting as a mulch for my outdoor garden, hence i already have some to use. Not sure how the em1 will affect it though. Ill update on that more when ive got some more info.


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## Smiffy2k9 (Mar 3, 2019)

Hi lads,

Im trying out sub irrigated planters for the first time, and also sohum living soil for the first time. Due to my space being small i went with a 3 liter bottle style sip. Ive made 1 change to the design and that is using a fabric pot for the top portion instead of inverted bottle because i love using fabric pots. Also for wicking material im using polyester stuffing (couldnt source polypropylene rope local to me and didnt feel i had enough room for a soil wick)

Now this being my first time using living soil and sips i dont know if its going ok or not. The fabric feels dry to the touch and the soil is dry the depth of my finger. Should it be this way or is my wicking material either not working or i havent placed enough inside the pot?

The sip is the pot on the right in the foreground, the other 4 are fabricpots


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## raggyb (Mar 3, 2019)

I'm building my first one too Smiffy and have the same question. Hopefully we get to the bottom of this. I haven't planted in it yet. I got the wick partially submerged and the soil feels dry several inches down but there is some added humidity at the soil line and that's it. I didn't top water.


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## Smiffy2k9 (Mar 3, 2019)

I ended up top watering with a sprayer due to slow growth of the seedling. I set up another sip but didnt add soil to test the wicking of my polyester stuffing, after a hour sitting in the res the stuffing is only wet at the bottom of the pot where it goes into the res, there is an inch of dry stuffing above it (following the youtube video i copied). So maybe i need less stuffing in the pot.

Hopefully i get it sorted quick as the 3 party cups are ready to transplantt


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## Serverchris (Mar 3, 2019)

Smiffy2k9 said:


> Hi lads,
> 
> Im trying out sub irrigated planters for the first time, and also sohum living soil for the first time. Due to my space being small i went with a 3 liter bottle style sip. Ive made 1 change to the design and that is using a fabric pot for the top portion instead of inverted bottle because i love using fabric pots. Also for wicking material im using polyester stuffing (couldnt source polypropylene rope local to me and didnt feel i had enough room for a soil wick)
> 
> ...


Since you used a smartpot I have an easy fix for you. Get a container that the smartpot will fit in that is about 5 or 6 inches deep. Fill that container with perlite to about 4 or 5 inches tall. Water the container leaving about 1 inch of the perlite up top dry not sitting in the water. Put your smartpot on the bed of perlite and your done. Water the perlite from now on unless you want to give a tea or something, if so water at the top of the smartpot. Been doing it this way for awhile now but I use 10 gallon smart pots and bus tubs for a container.


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## Smiffy2k9 (Mar 3, 2019)

Serverchris said:


> Since you used a smartpot I have an easy fix for you. Get a container that the smartpot will fit in that is about 5 or 6 inches deep. Fill that container with perlite to about 4 or 5 inches tall. Water the container leaving about 1 inch of the perlite up top dry not sitting in the water. Put your smartpot on the bed of perlite and your done. Water the perlite from now on unless you want to give a tea or something, if so water at the top of the smartpot. Been doing it this way for awhile now but I use 10 gallon smart pots and bus tubs for a container.


Easier said than done, i I followed and then modified a 2 liter bottle sip, you cut the bottom of the bottle, that becomes your res and then you invert the other part of the bottle and thats the pot, so i have the neck/lid portion of the bottle on the bottom and then fabric sides with no fabric base, height in my grow space is also limited bit ill see what i can do for the next lot of pots.


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## Serverchris (Mar 4, 2019)

Smiffy2k9 said:


> Easier said than done, i I followed and then modified a 2 liter bottle sip, you cut the bottom of the bottle, that becomes your res and then you invert the other part of the bottle and thats the pot, so i have the neck/lid portion of the bottle on the bottom and then fabric sides with no fabric base, height in my grow space is also limited bit ill see what i can do for the next lot of pots.


Oh I see, you have no bottom on your smartpot. If you had another smartpot laying around you could transplant into that one first. Be aware if you move up sizes it will probably need some time to let the roots expand in the new pot before you move to the sip.


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## Smiffy2k9 (Mar 4, 2019)

Serverchris said:


> Oh I see, you have no bottom on your smartpot. If you had another smartpot laying around you could transplant into that one first. Be aware if you move up sizes it will probably need some time to let the roots expand in the new pot before you move to the sip.


Yeah i was thinking about it on the way to work, ill make a 2liter smartpot and have that sit on a bed of perlite in a 3liter bottle, how easy is it to tell when the perlite res needs topping up?

Thinking about it some more, ill leave the one a have set up already and make 3 with perlite beds, ill have a good comparison then.


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## Serverchris (Mar 4, 2019)

https://forum.grasscity.com/threads/noobwannbs-self-wicking-smartpot-ghetto-setup.1151159/

Install I clear cup like this guy did and you can just look and see water level. I just used high strength duct tape to tape the cups in and it works great. Of course do that before you fill with perlite.


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## Smiffy2k9 (Mar 4, 2019)

Serverchris said:


> https://forum.grasscity.com/threads/noobwannbs-self-wicking-smartpot-ghetto-setup.1151159/
> 
> Install I clear cup like this guy did and you can just look and see water level. I just used high strength duct tape to tape the cups in and it works great. Of course do that before you fill with perlite.


Thats not a bad idea. Would there be any problems if was to get a plastic box thats roughly the same size as my grow space floor (16"x20") fill that with perlite and use it as my res and have 6 pots sitting on that


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## Rocket Soul (Mar 4, 2019)

Smiffy2k9 said:


> Thats not a bad idea. Would there be any problems if was to get a plastic box thats roughly the same size as my grow space floor (16"x20") fill that with perlite and use it as my res and have 6 pots sitting on that


Intersting idea, you could control how much water a pot gets by just planting it on top of the perlite or burying it in about a half inch for more wicking. But your tent is going to be bigtime humid and it will be very hard to control


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## Smiffy2k9 (Mar 4, 2019)

Rocket Soul said:


> Intersting idea, you could control how much water a pot gets by just planting it on top of the perlite or burying it in about a half inch for more wicking. But your tent is going to be bigtime humid and it will be very hard to control


Ahh an increase in humidity wont be a bad thing, its always been low in there. Find a suitable box later and get it made up.

How many grows will the perlite last, 8-9week autos?


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## Rocket Soul (Mar 4, 2019)

Smiffy2k9 said:


> Ahh an increase in humidity wont be a bad thing, its always been low in there. Find a suitable box later and get it made up.
> 
> How many grows will the perlite last, 8-9week autos?


No idea. Not sure if perlite is your best bet. Maybe hydroton? Also you will have algae buildup if you have the perlite in the light. Maybe only trying on one plant to start?


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## Smiffy2k9 (Mar 4, 2019)

Rocket Soul said:


> No idea. Not sure if perlite is your best bet. Maybe hydroton? Also you will have algae buildup if you have the perlite in the light. Maybe only trying on one plant to start?


I have a bag of perlite so ill try it, i have 3 seedlings waiting to be transplanted so theyll be the guinea pigs ha, in the link Serverchris posted the lad said cover the perlite if your worrid about algae, so ill lay some weed controll fabric that i make my smart pots from over it.


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## zofige (Mar 4, 2019)

Serverchris said:


> https://forum.grasscity.com/threads/noobwannbs-self-wicking-smartpot-ghetto-setup.1151159/
> 
> Install I clear cup like this guy did and you can just look and see water level. I just used high strength duct tape to tape the cups in and it works great. Of course do that before you fill with perlite.


Wow that's a great idea I'm gonna give this a shot, I'm not the greatest when it comes to DIY so something like this suits me perfectly!


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## raggyb (Mar 4, 2019)

Smiffy2k9 said:


> Easier said than done, i I followed and then modified a 2 liter bottle sip, you cut the bottom of the bottle, that becomes your res and then you invert the other part of the bottle and thats the pot, so i have the neck/lid portion of the bottle on the bottom and then fabric sides with no fabric base, height in my grow space is also limited bit ill see what i can do for the next lot of pots.


This is cool looking even if it's not working. From what I saw with my set up it seems like there is a height limit for how high water can easily wick. I have one fabric where it climbs up about 5" and seems to stop. Also where I compressed it it didn't look wet. So maybe where you compressed this in the neck of the bottle it is too compressed and you should try to find a way to have it less compressed? 

But then maybe something else happens once it gets saturated. Maybe a cycle where water at the top of the soil evaperates and that causes a siphon of water up through the pot. Then again maybe just once roots get in the reservoir the plant takes off.


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## Serverchris (Mar 4, 2019)

Rocket Soul said:


> Intersting idea, you could control how much water a pot gets by just planting it on top of the perlite or burying it in about a half inch for more wicking. But your tent is going to be bigtime humid and it will be very hard to control


I do run a dehumidifier in my tent to keep the humidity down but to be honest I needed to run one even when it was just 6 10 gallon smart pots by themselves. It works really well though.


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## Serverchris (Mar 4, 2019)

Smiffy2k9 said:


> Ahh an increase in humidity wont be a bad thing, its always been low in there. Find a suitable box later and get it made up.
> 
> How many grows will the perlite last, 8-9week autos?


I've never reused the perlite after a cycle but I'm sure you could steralize it and use it again. That's the only downside to this method. Ive been too scared to just try to run the same perlite again as I'm limited on space so cant make any mistakes. I saw someone mention trying hydroton but he was advised against it, if I remember correctly they said it wouldn't wick as good as the perlite. Idk myself though, hydroton may work but perlite is cheaper here anyway so that's what I use.


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## Smiffy2k9 (Mar 5, 2019)

raggyb said:


> This is cool looking even if it's not working. From what I saw with my set up it seems like there is a height limit for how high water can easily wick. I have one fabric where it climbs up about 5" and seems to stop. Also where I compressed it it didn't look wet. So maybe where you compressed this in the neck of the bottle it is too compressed and you should try to find a way to have it less compressed?
> 
> But then maybe something else happens once it gets saturated. Maybe a cycle where water at the top of the soil evaperates and that causes a siphon of water up through the pot. Then again maybe just once roots get in the reservoir the plant takes off.


I think my initial problem with this pot is that the living soil i have bought is dehydrated and hydrophobic so ot wouldnt wick up the water, i potted up new pots last night and left them soaking in a sink of water overnight and they now hold water. So maybe now my 3 liter bottle sips would work but im just going to use homemade 3liter (2.8 to be percise) fabric pots sat on a bed of perlite.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 5, 2019)

Smiffy2k9 said:


> I think my initial problem with this pot is that the living soil i have bought is dehydrated and hydrophobic so ot wouldnt wick up the water, i potted up new pots last night and left them soaking in a sink of water overnight and they now hold water. So maybe now my 3 liter bottle sips would work but im just going to use homemade 3liter (2.8 to be percise) fabric pots sat on a bed of perlite.


right you need to have all your soil moist before the wick will start and maintain. Also you need a cover crop or mulch or something to keep your top soil from drying out. This is KEY in any SIP AND living soil also. The soil needs to stay moist (not wet per say) all the time. There are people (and they have voiced their opinions earlier on this thread) that think this is the incorrect approach for canabis and think it needs to go through this wet dry cycle. I for one whole heartedly disagree with that. But yes if you look at the instructions for the inntainer posted earlier, in the end it talks about building the soil and making sure to wet everything as you add it and make sure the wick is also nice and wet to start the wicking process. You are on the right path man!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 5, 2019)

Smiffy2k9 said:


> I think my initial problem with this pot is that the living soil i have bought is dehydrated and hydrophobic so ot wouldnt wick up the water, i potted up new pots last night and left them soaking in a sink of water overnight and they now hold water. So maybe now my 3 liter bottle sips would work but im just going to use homemade 3liter (2.8 to be percise) fabric pots sat on a bed of perlite.


It also sounds like you may benefit from looking into the world of Hempys! Sounds like you might be shooting for some kind of hybrid.


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## raggyb (Mar 5, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> right you need to have all your soil moist before the wick will start and maintain. Also you need a cover crop or mulch or something to keep your top soil from drying out. This is KEY in any SIP AND living soil also. The soil needs to stay moist (not wet per say) all the time. There are people (and they have voiced their opinions earlier on this thread) that think this is the incorrect approach for canabis and think it needs to go through this wet dry cycle. I for one whole heartedly disagree with that. But yes if you look at the instructions for the inntainer posted earlier, in the end it talks about building the soil and making sure to wet everything as you add it and make sure the wick is also nice and wet to start the wicking process. You are on the right path man!


That's reassuring that wetting the soil is going to make it work. But I'm still trying to figure out the limits exactly. I found that if you dangle a fabric in water, it only wicks so high. And if you compress the fabric by squeezing it through a hole for example, it seems to block the water from climbing considerably, which isn't surprising. There is probably some limit to how long your wick can be and if I could I'd like it longer so I can wait longer between refilling. 

At what point/length does water stop wicking up and I guess the weight of water then makes it wick downwards? Too hard of a question I fear but any guesses?


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## Serverchris (Mar 5, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> It also sounds like you may benefit from looking into the world of Hempys! Sounds like you might be shooting for some kind of hybrid.


You know I've did hempys before and was kind of thinking how similar this is to one. The benefit to this way is being able to bottom water unlike hempys. Also a bigger resivour than a hempy would have. I did coco hempys and got fungus gnats because the coco needed watering so much. Have you ever seen anyone do a living organic soil hempy? I'm curious, I dont think I have.


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## Smiffy2k9 (Mar 6, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> right you need to have all your soil moist before the wick will start and maintain. Also you need a cover crop or mulch or something to keep your top soil from drying out. This is KEY in any SIP AND living soil also. The soil needs to stay moist (not wet per say) all the time. There are people (and they have voiced their opinions earlier on this thread) that think this is the incorrect approach for canabis and think it needs to go through this wet dry cycle. I for one whole heartedly disagree with that. But yes if you look at the instructions for the inntainer posted earlier, in the end it talks about building the soil and making sure to wet everything as you add it and make sure the wick is also nice and wet to start the wicking process. You are on the right path man!


 i transplated my 3 seedlings last night, and like you said i watered the soil as i went. 



meangreengrowinmachine said:


> It also sounds like you may benefit from looking into the world of Hempys! Sounds like you might be shooting for some kind of hybrid.


 i had a quick look into hempys, most what i read said they are good for big plants and my set up is more micro so big plants for me is not an option, also im all set up for sips nownbut thanks for the info, will keep it in mind if get more space in the future.


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## Tstat (Mar 6, 2019)

The other day I got fed up with RDWC and hydro in general (after 20+ years). I felt like the Grateful Dead in 1970- after all the high powered experimenting, time to go back to a nice, stripped down organic type grow. I'm hoping for American Beauty quality, or at least Working Man's Dead!

Sorry for the hippie reference, LOL. Anyway @Tim Fox recommended I look into SIPs. After looking at various grow types, I am ready to go this route. I even read all the 91 pages here and a few SIP grow journals.

Right now I have a few plants finishing up in the RDWC (which is really DWC now since the water pump broke). They should be done within a month. I am then removing the system. I will run some DWC buckets next, since I have some nice plants in DWC veg. Along with finishing up the DWC plants, I will slowly add some SIPs until the room is all organic SIPs. I transplanted some bare root cuttings into one gallon organic pots yesterday and they look great today. I'm running all Bodhi gear ATM, with 2 new crosses germinating now.

Of course, I looked at Earthpot and Growbox, as well as some of the DIYs on here. I'm still undecided how to proceed (and I have time to build or do more research). Right now I am leaning toward the Growbox for the larger rez. I may even buy the 6 pack for $200 from the agardenpatch.com site.

So, yea, at this point I am just looking for suggestions. I want to run organic, amended soil with just H2O in the rez. My local shop recommends this:
*https://www.greentreegardensupply.com/collections/agricultural-potting-soil/products/greentree-ultimate-blend*

I can run 12 plants legally (hence the 6 Growpot idea) and I'd also like to use air stones in the rez. I have a nice Alita pump and I just like the idea of keeping things oxygenated. I know it's not necessary, but I like the idea of the the water roots growing into a H20 saturated environment, like hydro.

Lets see, what else... my space is 7x3, I run about 1000 watts of COB and QB, no CO2. I like variety and can have anywhere from 4-8 strains going at any given time.

Sorry for the overly long post, but I just wanted to introduce myself. I hope to make this thread my go-to for this project and I look forward to joining this SIP revolution


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## Tim Fox (Mar 6, 2019)

Tstat said:


> The other day I got fed up with RDWC and hydro in general (after 20+ years). I felt like the Grateful Dead in 1970- after all the high powered experimenting, time to go back to a nice, stripped down organic type grow. I'm hoping for American Beauty quality, or at least Working Man's Dead!
> 
> Sorry for the hippie reference, LOL. Anyway @Tim Fox recommended I look into SIPs. After looking at various grow types, I am ready to go this route. I even read all the 91 pages here and a few SIP grow journals.
> 
> ...


good morning, i feel your making a wonderful choice for yourself, just you wait till you see how much your work load is going to go DOWN!!!, no more mixing nutes, heck i dont even ph my water, because you get the buffering of ph from the soil, ( unless you live someplace that has insane ph levels most city water is stable), mix yourself up a good soil batch and its water only the whole ride, many of us do the dry nute soil trench, your going to like the growbox, the front fill res and the ability to see into the res is a major upgrade from the earthbox, plus there is no mess, you will need some way to get to those fill ports if you stack them all into a grow space side by side, you could insert fill tubes like the earth box uses so you can fill from the top, you can even place some styrofoam on a scewer and make a home made float so you can see water level with the glance of an eye ( like the ocotopot uses),, you can also make a self filling res by using gravity and some cheap plastic tubing, there is a video on youtube about that someplace, i can draw you a picture or try and describe it if your interested,,, there is no pump, no fittings, and no leaks using the gravity fill technique, plus you could draw a line in the fill res that shows water level ,, all thoughts to consider
everytime i tried to go back to hydro i just couldnt anymore, SIPS are just so darn easy and produce like crazy
all 91 pages huh,, thats a good read , there were lots of amazing grows in this thread,, and a few guys who are no longer on rollitup like hyroot for instance,


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## Tim Fox (Mar 6, 2019)

Tstat said:


> The other day I got fed up with RDWC and hydro in general (after 20+ years). I felt like the Grateful Dead in 1970- after all the high powered experimenting, time to go back to a nice, stripped down organic type grow. I'm hoping for American Beauty quality, or at least Working Man's Dead!
> 
> Sorry for the hippie reference, LOL. Anyway @Tim Fox recommended I look into SIPs. After looking at various grow types, I am ready to go this route. I even read all the 91 pages here and a few SIP grow journals.
> 
> ...


in this video he shows what we are talking about with the nute trench,,, you can reused your old soil too if your interested,, i jsut always bought a new bag each grow


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## Tim Fox (Mar 6, 2019)

oops here is the video


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## Tim Fox (Mar 6, 2019)

Tstat said:


> The other day I got fed up with RDWC and hydro in general (after 20+ years). I felt like the Grateful Dead in 1970- after all the high powered experimenting, time to go back to a nice, stripped down organic type grow. I'm hoping for American Beauty quality, or at least Working Man's Dead!
> 
> Sorry for the hippie reference, LOL. Anyway @Tim Fox recommended I look into SIPs. After looking at various grow types, I am ready to go this route. I even read all the 91 pages here and a few SIP grow journals.
> 
> ...


here is a decent video showing the principle behind the auto watering system that uses gravity only, they of course are using global buckets ( 5 gallon sips) , but with the grow box/earthbox you just run the hose into the res in the same fashion


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## Tstat (Mar 6, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> there were lots of amazing grows in this thread


Yea, no doubt. I really want to thank you for all your help and infos. This is gonna be fun. I wish I didn't have to run any more hydro, but I have to be patient. I have some plants in DWC that deserve to be flowered, lol. And it gives me time to veg the new plants in the one gallon pots, and get my SIPs together


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## Tim Fox (Mar 6, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Yea, no doubt. I really want to thank you for all your help and infos. This is gonna be fun. I wish I didn't have to run any more hydro, but I have to be patient. I have some plants in DWC that deserve to be flowered, lol. And it gives me time to veg the new plants in the one gallon pots, and get my SIPs together


i have moved plants from Hempy buckets and transplanted into soil with great success ( never lost a plant),, yup i tried hempy i hated it,, all that over flow water,, i ended up using a turkey baster to try and suck it up, or i had to bring in a shop vac,, ugh,, but yea you could transplant small plants into soil, but if they are ready for flower,, probably not hahah


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 6, 2019)

@Tstat personally I love the ones I built myself and if you have the tools I think i priced each one out at around 24 bucks per end up having approx. a 4 gallon res. I use MOSLTY only water (I have been known to throw some Cal Mag in there because for some reason plants under cobs LOVE it). but I suppose that 6 pack of earthtainers for 200 is pretty close to that price point and not having to build lol. Welcome to the easiest way of growing ever man! and love the Bodhi gear! I have some Bing going right now and I think I am going to run his shit exclusively from now on... it is just soooo good! 
@Tim Fox yeah me and you found a very similar path to SIPS ... turkey baster and all! hahahaha that shit was such a back ache!!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 6, 2019)

raggyb said:


> That's reassuring that wetting the soil is going to make it work. But I'm still trying to figure out the limits exactly. I found that if you dangle a fabric in water, it only wicks so high. And if you compress the fabric by squeezing it through a hole for example, it seems to block the water from climbing considerably, which isn't surprising. There is probably some limit to how long your wick can be and if I could I'd like it longer so I can wait longer between refilling.
> 
> At what point/length does water stop wicking up and I guess the weight of water then makes it wick downwards? Too hard of a question I fear but any guesses?


I mean I think capillarity really does not have a limit... it wicks all the way to the tops of trees, I am wondering if it is the fabric that you are trying to use that is the limiter. I have never tried to use a wick like that before though so I am unsure how that will work. I think what may be happening in your instance is that the wick material is not able to hold the water well enough to continue to exert enough force against the gravity pulling it down? Again I am not 100% sure on this... maybe try some googling of capillarity and fabric wicks.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 6, 2019)

Serverchris said:


> You know I've did hempys before and was kind of thinking how similar this is to one. The benefit to this way is being able to bottom water unlike hempys. Also a bigger resivour than a hempy would have. I did coco hempys and got fungus gnats because the coco needed watering so much. Have you ever seen anyone do a living organic soil hempy? I'm curious, I dont think I have.


I saw a thread some time ago where someone use the bottom portion of their pot like a hempy with just a think layer of washed perlite. and then added the soil and plant on top. the idea was to have the organic soil, but try for the water roots of a hempy or hydro. It sounds like an interesting idea... but I like the KISS method of SIPS personally


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 6, 2019)

@Tstat here is my soil mix.. a big thing IMO for organic growing is making your own worm castings. A worm for is SUPER Easy and cheap to make and the "fertilizer" you get from them is a very important key to the soil food web you are trying to build. I have followed a lot of the big time organic guys/gals on this site for a long time and have watched them go through making thit type of teas and that type... nearly all are now to the point of homemade worm castings and molasses thats it for your tea. ... but oh yeah the soil mix lol .... but you may already have this after going through 91 pages lol .... I have since added some gypsum as well ... I need to go find the posts I have about how much though.... anyway hope this helps!

pete moss 7.5 gal
worm castings 3.75 gal
compost 3.75 gal
perlite 7.5 gal
lime 3 cups
glacial rock dust 12 cups
thats my base

then i mix my amendments together as below
kelp meal 6 cups
epsoma tomato tone 3 cups
alfalfa meal 3 cups
neem meal 3 cups
crab meal 3 cups
finely ground egg shells about 3 cups
azomite about a cup

I then take a total of 7.5 cups of the amendment mix and add it to the base and let it sit for at least 4 weeks...


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## Tim Fox (Mar 6, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> @Tstat personally I love the ones I built myself and if you have the tools I think i priced each one out at around 24 bucks per end up having approx. a 4 gallon res. I use MOSLTY only water (I have been known to throw some Cal Mag in there because for some reason plants under cobs LOVE it). but I suppose that 6 pack of earthtainers for 200 is pretty close to that price point and not having to build lol. Welcome to the easiest way of growing ever man! and love the Bodhi gear! I have some Bing going right now and I think I am going to run his shit exclusively from now on... it is just soooo good!
> @Tim Fox yeah me and you found a very similar path to SIPS ... turkey baster and all! hahahaha that shit was such a back ache!!


hahah i will never forget the turkey baster days ugh


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 6, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> hahah i will never forget the turkey baster days ugh


same lol I still have my hempy buckets out in my garage somewhere... I recognize them very easily because I had coated them entirely in aluminum tape, so the shine a dull wrinkled silver from in the recesses of my junk pile in there hahahaha


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## Tim Fox (Mar 6, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> same lol I still have my hempy buckets out in my garage somewhere... I recognize them very easily because I had coated them entirely in aluminum tape, so the shine a dull wrinkled silver from in the recesses of my junk pile in there hahahaha


mine are sitting outside in the rain, still have the perolite in them too,, one is cracked,, Heck they would be awesome buckets if they didnt have a hole drilled in the side hahah


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## Tstat (Mar 6, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> but yea you could transplant small plants into soil, but if they are ready for flower,, probably not hahah


I actually chucked some smaller plants, if I had some of the same strain in the cloner to go into soil. The ones I'm referring to are 2-3 feet tall and totally rooted in rocks with huge root systems in the water.


meangreengrowinmachine said:


> but oh yeah the soil mix lol .... but you may already have this after going through 91 pages lol


Yea, I did see that. I have read a small amount on this type of soil- like in Skunk and shit. I am interested, but think I'll go with bags to start. The stuff from greentreegardensupply.com seems really nice. I used the growers blend with perlite, vermiculite, and coco added for the new plants. I'll go with the Ultimate for the sips. Here is their description:

_"GreenTree Ultimate BlendTM is an organic supersoil for container gardening made using our proprietary aging process. It contains a blend of GreenTree CocoTM, sphagnum peat and specially selected organic nutrients, worm castings, humic acids, and GreenTree BiocoreTM, a biochar* that encourages microbiology, improves water retention, and locks in carbon. This soil contains all the nutrients typically needed for a full crop cycle."_



meangreengrowinmachine said:


> 6 pack of earthtainers for 200 is pretty close to that price point and not having to build lol.


Yea, that's what I was thinking. I could built them but this would be so easy, and they are the Growbox units with the 4 gallon reservoir. I did build the RDWC based on Current Culture designs, but I think I'm not up for more DIY right now.


Tim Fox said:


> oops here is the video


So, some people just add those things and reuse the soil? I might try it on a second crop then dump it, but just like if you don't change your res enough in hydro, you will have problems, no?

Thanks again, guys. This is why RIU is so cool. I decided to make a change, and within a day I found you guys, who have been at this for a couple of years- perfecting and testing so I can just jump right in


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## raggyb (Mar 6, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I mean I think capillarity really does not have a limit... it wicks all the way to the tops of trees, I am wondering if it is the fabric that you are trying to use that is the limiter. I have never tried to use a wick like that before though so I am unsure how that will work. I think what may be happening in your instance is that the wick material is not able to hold the water well enough to continue to exert enough force against the gravity pulling it down? Again I am not 100% sure on this... maybe try some googling of capillarity and fabric wicks.


yay, thanks for the reply. I'm not sure. I guess in trees or plants it's that turgid effect a few people write about from time to time on rit. spelled turgid? my probably broken interpretation of turgid effect is the plant's leaf transpires water vapor and the roots on up to the leaves are wet so there is a sort of siphon or momentum or reverse pressure effect or whatever you want to call it that keeps the water weeping upwards. I guess that could happen in a sip if the top is evaporating and almost the same thing. It seems just a little different from pure capillary action, which in my guess is driven solely by water tension. Lot of fancy talk by me but I really have no idea what I'm talking about lol. But anyhow you gave me an idea. I'll try to rig something with one fabric strip from water into air, and another from water into wet soil and see if there is a difference. But dont expect a pic cuz I'm photographically challenged.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 7, 2019)

Tstat said:


> So, some people just add those things and reuse the soil?


the real reason i posted the video was to show you how they set up the Nute Trench,, personally i do not re use soil,, that video is for guys who grow tomatos and veggies in them hahaha,, I dump my soil from grows in my wifes garden and just buy a new bag of soil each time, , now there are some people who re use thier soil, but its a pretty big operation , they dump it, mix things in and keep it "alive" so to speak, doing living soil would bring on to much work for me ( yup i am a lazy old fart who likes things really easy hahah),,, hey i have heard of guys who amend thier soil and run it over and over, not knocking anyone who does that,, 
but that Trench, when i have dumped my SIPs out and examine the roots, a third or so are water roots down in the res, then there are roots all over in the bottom of the dirt layer, then there were always these sort of mother type roots going right into that trench, not allot, also i felt the trench was leaching nutes into the damp soil of the sip over time,


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 7, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> the real reason i posted the video was to show you how they set up the Nute Trench,, personally i do not re use soil,, that video is for guys who grow tomatos and veggies in them hahaha,, I dump my soil from grows in my wifes garden and just buy a new bag of soil each time, , now there are some people who re use thier soil, but its a pretty big operation , they dump it, mix things in and keep it "alive" so to speak, doing living soil would bring on to much work for me ( yup i am a lazy old fart who likes things really easy hahah),,, hey i have heard of guys who amend their soil and run it over and over, not knocking anyone who does that,,
> but that Trench, when i have dumped my SIPs out and examine the roots, a third or so are water roots down in the res, then there are roots all over in the bottom of the dirt layer, then there were always these sort of mother type roots going right into that trench, not allot, also i felt the trench was leaching nutes into the damp soil of the sip over time,


I re run all my soil and do all that live crap (-; so far so good and i am on I think the third or so run I dont know I have a bunch in cycles now as I re amend and re add bacteria and worms and let the amendments be broken down into usable materials for the plants by the microbes and worms. It is almost like at this point I am growing the SOIL and the plants on the top are the best vestigial thing ever!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 7, 2019)

raggyb said:


> yay, thanks for the reply. I'm not sure. I guess in trees or plants it's that turgid effect a few people write about from time to time on rit. spelled turgid? my probably broken interpretation of turgid effect is the plant's leaf transpires water vapor and the roots on up to the leaves are wet so there is a sort of siphon or momentum or reverse pressure effect or whatever you want to call it that keeps the water weeping upwards. I guess that could happen in a sip if the top is evaporating and almost the same thing. It seems just a little different from pure capillary action, which in my guess is driven solely by water tension. Lot of fancy talk by me but I really have no idea what I'm talking about lol. But anyhow you gave me an idea. I'll try to rig something with one fabric strip from water into air, and another from water into wet soil and see if there is a difference. But dont expect a pic cuz I'm photographically challenged.


sounds like an interesting experiment! let me know how it goes!


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## Tim Fox (Mar 7, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I re run all my soil and do all that live crap (-; so far so good and i am on I think the third or so run I dont know I have a bunch in cycles now as I re amend and re add bacteria and worms and let the amendments be broken down into usable materials for the plants by the microbes and worms. It is almost like at this point I am growing the SOIL and the plants on the top are the best vestigial thing ever!


I really admire you living soil guys it's really an art


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 7, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> I really admire you living soil guys it's really an art


Hey thanks man! I am TRYING to do it correctly and try to be as organic as I can. (-:


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## Tstat (Mar 7, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> that video is for guys who grow tomatos and veggies in them hahaha


I actually said to my wife this morning that I was going to grab the 10 pack of Growboxes for a $90 savings and use a few out on the deck this summer. I’m thinking a couple of tomatoes, some cukes, peppers, and some herbs (basil, dill, etc.). I might do two MMJs out here as well. I do have a regular soil garden, but my wife wants grass there, so maybe these can replace it.

It’s only $300 for 10 and free shipping


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 7, 2019)

Tstat said:


> I actually said to my wife this morning that I was going to grab the 10 pack of Growboxes for a $90 savings and use a few out on the deck this summer. I’m thinking a couple of tomatoes, some cukes, peppers, and some herbs (basil, dill, etc.). I might do two MMJs out here as well. I do have a regular soil garden, but my wife wants grass there, so maybe these can replace it.
> 
> It’s only $300 for 10 and free shipping


Down with the French aristocracy's Idea of wealth!!! (i.e. lawns) lol I had a friend that used an earthbox to grow some cherry tomatoes on his deck and they were amazing and super easy to grow!


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## Tstat (Mar 7, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Down with the French aristocracy's Idea of wealth!!! (i.e. lawns)


Haha, I hear ya. I wish I lived in the woods. I have dogs, so most of my backyard is dirt. I also have a pool on the other side, so the garden would be the only place grass could grow. Unless I let the dogs on it, lol. 

I never have luck here with cukes, they turn orange or just suck really bad. I’d love it if I could grow good cukes in one of these!


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## Tim Fox (Mar 7, 2019)

Tstat said:


> I actually said to my wife this morning that I was going to grab the 10 pack of Growboxes for a $90 savings and use a few out on the deck this summer. I’m thinking a couple of tomatoes, some cukes, peppers, and some herbs (basil, dill, etc.). I might do two MMJs out here as well. I do have a regular soil garden, but my wife wants grass there, so maybe these can replace it.
> 
> It’s only $300 for 10 and free shipping


Dude did you see my six foot tall tomato plants in my earthbox on this thread the sips rock the veggies


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## Tstat (Mar 7, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Dude did you see my six foot tall tomato plants


I did! This new project has me excited on so many levels. I have a bunch of clones already in soil mix. This is going to happen sooner than I think


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## Tstat (Mar 7, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> the sips rock the veggies


Did you use or do anything different for veggies than for mj? I mean like fert or soil...


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## Tim Fox (Mar 7, 2019)

Actually no I used to Same soil , but I switched to a dry organic tomato nute and still did a nute trench as well as mixed into the soil


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## Lightgreen2k (Mar 9, 2019)

Hi Best Friends


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## Lightgreen2k (Mar 9, 2019)




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## Lightgreen2k (Mar 9, 2019)

Show and repost these best friends made it easier and came over here..


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## Tstat (Mar 9, 2019)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Show and repost these best friends made it easier and came over here


Nice! What sip are you using? What strains?


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## Lightgreen2k (Mar 9, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Nice! What sip are you using? What strains?


This is a custom made sip. It's no earthbox. I actually had grassroots pots or that fabric one make a custom pot.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 12, 2019)

@Jesselikes2grow @Big Perm here is the SIP thread!! Welcome to the club of EZ Organic (well not all are) growing!!!


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## Jesselikes2grow (Mar 12, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> @Jesselikes2grow @Big Perm here is the SIP thread!! Welcome to the club of EZ Organic (well not all are) growing!!!


Lol. I've been a mostly lurker here thus far, I've been watching this thread awhile now. Lmfao


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 13, 2019)

@MustangStudFarm SIP thread!


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 13, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> @MustangStudFarm SIP thread!


So, I got 4x Earthboxes delivered to my door yesterday. I was going to try them out before I completely switch. Some reason, I thought that the Earthbox was only 1cuft(8gal) but they are 2x that size... I feel like I am cheating on this first round because I bought everything from the store and I am DIY person. What I mean is that I bought the Earthbox, EM1, GroKashi, and Malibu compost. I was making my own Grokashi, but I put it in my worm bin because they LOVE it and it created thermal compost during the cold days.
Anyways, I should be on board with everyone soon enough! I've been having my soil tested and it seems like I should be having better results? Maybe, I just need to supercharge my soil with microbes(SIP Box). I've been told that red wheat bran, azomite, and greensand all have a good amount of Mn. I treated my soil with Mn, Fe, and Zn sulfate but I need a slow release also. I think that it is the high P that drives the micronutrients down.


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 13, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I re run all my soil and do all that live crap (-; so far so good and i am on I think the third or so run I dont know I have a bunch in cycles now as I re amend and re add bacteria and worms and let the amendments be broken down into usable materials for the plants by the microbes and worms. It is almost like at this point I am growing the SOIL and the plants on the top are the best vestigial thing ever!


Man, I had one of my best harvest back in 2016 when I first got into composting. I had some serious dumb luck apparently! I spent the last couple of years trying to figure what I did right and wrong. The biggest "wrong" that I did was using rock phosphate. My compost gave me 1 good run before it went to shit and I think that it was the P breaking down. I realize now that I get more than enough P from my compost! I recently figured out that one of the biggest "rights" that I did on that compost was azomite and greensand. My compost is always low in Mn, Fe, and Zn. So, greensand and azomite are probably the key pieces that I have been missing. I realize now that I want to keep the N low and K high. It takes greensand so long to break down though. Sorry for rambling.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 13, 2019)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Man, I had one of my best harvest back in 2016 when I first got into composting. I had some serious dumb luck apparently! I spent the last couple of years trying to figure what I did right and wrong. The biggest "wrong" that I did was using rock phosphate. My compost gave me 1 good run before it went to shit and I think that it was the P breaking down. I realize now that I get more than enough P from my compost! I recently figured out that one of the biggest "rights" that I did on that compost was azomite and greensand. My compost is always low in Mn, Fe, and Zn. So, greensand and azomite are probably the key pieces that I have been missing. I realize now that I want to keep the N low and K high. It takes greensand so long to break down though. Sorry for rambling.


i was going to say that exact thing about the greensand it takes FOREVER.. and I think that adding the EM 1 and grokashi to the top layer is really going to take stuff to the next level for me. Hopefully it is the same for you!


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## Jesselikes2grow (Mar 13, 2019)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Man, I had one of my best harvest back in 2016 when I first got into composting. I had some serious dumb luck apparently! I spent the last couple of years trying to figure what I did right and wrong. The biggest "wrong" that I did was using rock phosphate. My compost gave me 1 good run before it went to shit and I think that it was the P breaking down. I realize now that I get more than enough P from my compost! I recently figured out that one of the biggest "rights" that I did on that compost was azomite and greensand. My compost is always low in Mn, Fe, and Zn. So, greensand and azomite are probably the key pieces that I have been missing. I realize now that I want to keep the N low and K high. It takes greensand so long to break down though. Sorry for rambling.


Im a way bigger rambler than you. Lol. More info/details the better i say. I always want to know the why some thing does or doesn't work. Not just that it does or doesn't. Without the details added that's not possible. I've been reading your stuff in various threads for awhile now, seems we frequent alot of the same threads. Your details of things going on have brought up many an interesting discussion ive learned things from. All good stuff man. Ramble away, ill join ya. LMFAO


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## Jesselikes2grow (Mar 13, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> i was going to say that exact thing about the greensand it takes FOREVER.. and I think that adding the EM 1 and grokashi to the top layer is really going to take stuff to the next level for me. Hopefully it is the same for you!


I fully agree about the greensand. It's def part of a long term soil health plan. The greensand is for us rols guys for sure with how long it takes.


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 13, 2019)

Jesselikes2grow said:


> Im a way bigger rambler than you. Lol. More info/details the better i say. I always want to know the why some thing does or doesn't work. Not just that it does or doesn't. Without the details added that's not possible. I've been reading your stuff in various threads for awhile now, seems we frequent alot of the same threads. Your details of things going on have brought up many an interesting discussion ive learned things from. All good stuff man. Ramble away, ill join ya. LMFAO


Man, I feel like I am close to a breakthrough but it just hasn't happened yet. The last soil test that I shown is my recent test. While I was waiting to get the test results back, my plants were suffering and started showing spots. That is common in Mn def. However, as soon as I added Mn, Zn, and Fe sulfate the plants started to grow again. 

What I am saying is that I am by no means an expert, just a guy that is on a search for information. I still have more failure than success. I say this but everyone in Okla says that my smoke is way better than dispensary, but nobody wants to listen when I talk organic. The only thing that I am lacking is yield, I'm only getting 1/2 of what I should be. It's been for different reasons too, but I think that is because I kept switching my method. I think that I will just stick with my high P compost and learn how to just deal with it!!! It keeps locking out micronutrients.


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 13, 2019)

Jesselikes2grow said:


> I fully agree about the greensand. It's def part of a long term soil health plan. The greensand is for us rols guys for sure with how long it takes.


Greensand appears to be the missing puzzle piece and I only recently started using it again. I just got lucky with my 1st compost that I added it in. I understand it better now. The creator of the Soil Savvy test(one I use) said that the only difference for cannabis on the test is the K levels. He said that K should be 2x the recommended amount for cannabis. I realized that my only source of K was kelp and that was giving me high Na. I read that kelp could give you up to 3x the amount of Na to K. Kelp didn't help with my Mn problem either.


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## Tstat (Mar 13, 2019)

MustangStudFarm said:


> So, I got 4x Earthboxes delivered to my door yesterday.


I’m still debating on trying one Earthbox and one Growbox to see which one I like better, or buying the 10 pack of Growboxes at a discount. All things equal, I don’t care much about the bigger res, as someone is always here. I probably will use 6 inside under cobs and 4 outside on my deck (veggies and mj).


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 13, 2019)

Tstat said:


> I’m still debating on trying one Earthbox and one Growbox to see which one I like better, or buying the 10 pack of Growboxes at a discount. All things equal, I don’t care much about the bigger res, as someone is always here. I probably will use 6 inside under cobs and 4 outside on my deck (veggies and mj).


I really got the Earthbox to steal ideas for a DIY. The screen that seperates the rez from the soil has holes much bigger than I thought that it would. I probably could have just went to a store and looked at them, but I decided to try the 1st run the way that Alan Adkisson(Grokashi) suggested. The only thing that I am doing different is the Dolomite lime, I would rather use azomite and greensand. Plus, that fert pack that comes with the Earthbox has bone meal. I'm staying away from P inputs, if you look at my soil test from compost(above) it is apparent that I will never need to add P.

Still, it would be interesting to see if there is a difference in the two brands. My friend pointed out that Wal-Mart carries the off brand earthbox.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 13, 2019)

Tstat said:


> I actually said to my wife this morning that I was going to grab the 10 pack of Growboxes for a $90 savings and use a few out on the deck this summer. I’m thinking a couple of tomatoes, some cukes, peppers, and some herbs (basil, dill, etc.). I might do two MMJs out here as well. I do have a regular soil garden, but my wife wants grass there, so maybe these can replace it.
> 
> It’s only $300 for 10 and free shipping


I was thinking of taking some side by side pics of the earthbox and grow box and show you the pluses and minus of each


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## Tim Fox (Mar 13, 2019)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I really got the Earthbox to steal ideas for a DIY. The screen that seperates the rez from the soil has holes much bigger than I thought that it would. I probably could have just went to a store and looked at them, but I decided to try the 1st run the way that Alan Adkisson(Grokashi) suggested. The only thing that I am doing different is the Dolomite lime, I would rather use azomite and greensand. Plus, that fert pack that comes with the Earthbox has bone meal. I'm staying away from P inputs, if you look at my soil test from compost(above) it is apparent that I will never need to add P.
> 
> Still, it would be interesting to see if there is a difference in the two brands. My friend pointed out that Wal-Mart carries the off brand earthbox.


Some pretty big difference I'll take pics later today


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## Tstat (Mar 13, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Some pretty big difference I'll take pics later today


Wow, thanks, that’s really nice of you.


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 13, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Yes , the earthbox holds exactly 1 bag of soil product, 2 cubic feet, or around 17 gallons, Chose some type of living soil, I know in the octopots they ad nutes right to the res, I am going run Water only the whole ride in my earthbox,,, my last grow was water only the whole ride in 3 gallon containers with FFOF


I see that you and Hyroot have been doing this for a while now. The problem is, Hyroot don't visit as much as he used to. Tim, I'm surprised that we have not had a conversation already. I was getting bored with RIU but I was also keeping a closed mind on SIPs. I thought that it was just a fad or something. Anyways, I think that it's about time to plant in my new Earthboxes today. The only thing that I am missing is the Grokashi, it should come in the mail any day now. I figured that I could just add Grokashi when I get it.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 13, 2019)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I see that you and Hyroot have been doing this for a while now. The problem is, Hyroot don't visit as much as he used to. Tim, I'm surprised that we have not already had a conversation already. I was getting bored with RIU but I was also keeping a closed mind on SIPs. I thought that it was just a fad or something. Anyways, I think that it's about time to plant in my new Earthboxes today. The only thing that I am missing is the Grokashi, it should come in the mail any day now. I figured that I could just add Grokashi when I get it.


SIPs a fad from about 30 years ago hahahaha...I love the inntainers I had posted earlier in the thread for DIY.. Super easy and proven already by many, I have my soil recipe up somewhere earlier in this thread also. I personally am not all about soil tests.. I am trying to build an organic living soil worms and all that and use the organic matter breaking down to be available for the plants as opposed to saying there is this deficiency so add this hard core additive and then get things out of whack. I do think that organics will usually yield less since you are not using all the artificial boosters and such that the nutes guys do. BUT the quality of your smoke imo is MUCH MUCH better. I think you are on the right path with building your microbial and fungal web more, this will take all the available organic material and break it down into the usable materials for the plants! I would just keep up with that if I was you and I bet you will see your plants love it! One thing I also have gleaned from some of the organic forums on here is the gypsum is GREAT for your plants also! gives you that little bit of plant safe sulfur micro nute which really helps with terp production.


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## Jesselikes2grow (Mar 13, 2019)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Man, I feel like I am close to a breakthrough but it just hasn't happened yet. The last soil test that I shown is my recent test. While I was waiting to get the test results back, my plants were suffering and started showing spots. That is common in Mn def. However, as soon as I added Mn, Zn, and Fe sulfate the plants started to grow again.
> 
> What I am saying is that I am by no means an expert, just a guy that is on a search for information. I still have more failure than success. I say this but everyone in Okla says that my smoke is way better than dispensary, but nobody wants to listen when I talk organic. The only thing that I am lacking is yield, I'm only getting 1/2 of what I should be. It's been for different reasons too, but I think that is because I kept switching my method. I think that I will just stick with my high P compost and learn how to just deal with it!!! It keeps locking out micronutrients.


I too am not an expert, I defer to and learn from those who are though. I'm always on a learning quest to better my growing and myself as a person. I enjoy learning with other like minded folks as yourself and sharing the results. I love to spread the knowledge that i and others have accumulated for the betterment of us all. I've had a few of my questions put experts and professors on a learning quest. lol. We've all got stuff to learn and improve on. Lol. Long as your learning something from each failure it's really not a failure then now is it? Lol. I've killed and abused my share of plants learning to grow some dank, has turned me into a better grower. Have you tried lessening the P inputs to the compost and adding more Mn inputs? I'm sure you have, just verifying. When my compost/Soil mix was too high in K, I actually added more N, P, Ca, etc inputs to make it all high as fuck like the K was. Basically a double or triple strength of everything ratio/mixture then I cut it in half, doubling the total amount of soil using unammended coco30%/peat70% blend. Leaving me with a balanced not hot or toxic soil. Have you tried a route like that yet?


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## Jesselikes2grow (Mar 13, 2019)

I used 0-12-0 bird poop( you would sub this for something like Epsoma 0-0-60 potash or other high K non P having input), 16-0-0 Plant protein meal, gypsum, greensand, azomite, sulfur, lime, And so on, amounts of each input based on soil tests, as well as a varied mixture of fast and slow available inputs. I made it hot as fuck. Lol, then doubled it with plain base material making for some happy plants.


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 13, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I have my soil recipe up somewhere earlier in this thread also. I personally am not all about soil tests.. I am trying to build an organic living soil worms and all that and use the organic matter breaking down to be available for the plants as opposed to saying there is this deficiency so add this hard core additive and then get things out of whack.


I'm using compost, but I was still having deficiency problems. I think that my phosphorus levels were so high that they were causing micronutrient deficiencies.

I'm not saying that soil tests are for everyone, but I got tired of guessing at what was going wrong. Too much of one thing will lock out another. The common issue with my compost was micronutrients. Now that I have it figured out, I should be able to fix the problem and roll with it. My solution; I think that I need to compost comfrey, borage, and nettle. I see that Malibu Compost already has it added. I guess that I was just using the soil test to point me in the right direction. For me, a $35 test is worth it. I can buy them on Amazon Prime.

I didn't understand how important micronutrients were until I started looking at High Brix gardening. Also, how potassium and nitrogen affects the brix levels.


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 13, 2019)

Jesselikes2grow said:


> I've had a few of my questions put experts and professors on a learning quest. lol.


I still have one of those questions that I still have not got a good answer to. I read and listen to podcasts and people like Jeff Lowenfels will tell you that high phosphorus and nitrogen will keep your mycos from growing because your plant is not sending root exudes to signal to fungi. Anyways, everyone preaches compost but my compost is always very excessive in phosphorus. I'm at a loss and don't know what to think of it anymore. I started running peat/perlite without compost and I was having a whole different set of problems. I was able to get the N down to normal levels, but I'm always going to have high P with my compost. However, I did start a worm bin that is mostly leaf mold and much less rabbit manure than I used in the past. I see that it is common for manure compost to be high in P.


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## Jesselikes2grow (Mar 13, 2019)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I see that you and Hyroot have been doing this for a while now. The problem is, Hyroot don't visit as much as he used to. Tim, I'm surprised that we have not had a conversation already. I was getting bored with RIU but I was also keeping a closed mind on SIPs. I thought that it was just a fad or something. Anyways, I think that it's about time to plant in my new Earthboxes today. The only thing that I am missing is the Grokashi, it should come in the mail any day now. I figured that I could just add Grokashi when I get it.


There's some good stuff going on with sips over in chuckers paradise. I've started a thread there to document my journey as well. In case anyone's interested.
https://chuckersparadise.com/threads/green-mountain-grow-rooms.70/#post-768


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 13, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> One thing I also have gleaned from some of the organic forums on here is the gypsum is GREAT for your plants also! gives you that little bit of plant safe sulfur micro nute which really helps with terp production.


Dude, I'm not trying to be rude or anything but this is another reason that I started testing my soil. If you read Jeff Lowenfels or Steve Solomon's books, they will tell you how important soil testing is. Lowenfels had a chapter dedicated to it in one of his books.

Anyways, the reason that I don't use gypsum is because I already have an excess of sulfur and the added calcium is just going to get in the way of K. I have plenty of rock dust in my soil, so I don't think that Ca is going to be an issue.

I'm trying to say this without coming across as a dick, but I don't think that I was able to. Sorry.


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 13, 2019)

Jesselikes2grow said:


> There's some good stuff going on with sips over in chuckers paradise. I've started a thread there to document my journey as well. In case anyone's interested.
> https://chuckersparadise.com/threads/green-mountain-grow-rooms.70/#post-768


I was trying to get more involved in stuff like this now that I am legal! Hell, I was growing illegally since 2011 in Oklahoma... I have a new camera, so I'll try to take more pics.


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 13, 2019)

Jesselikes2grow said:


> Have you tried lessening the P inputs to the compost and adding more Mn inputs?


That is what led me to using less rabbit manure and using greensand again. I was on the fence about Azomite because of the aluminum, but I understand that bokashi will help detoxify the Al. Red wheat bran is supposed to be high in Mn, so it should be a win-win situation. Azomite has a good amount of Mn also, but I only started using it.

The way that I was making compost is rabbit bedding, oak leaves, and grass clippings. I decided to use a lot less rabbit bedding, so I started composting it by itself and adding it when it's done. Another interesting thing that Alan Adkisson said about EM1 is that he grew up on a dairy farm and they had to deal with "manure lagoons". He said that they would ferment the silage with EM1 and let it drain into the lagoons. He said that the lagoons started to get life back to them such as frogs and ducks. Somehow, the fermented silage took the toxicity out of the manure. Anyhow, I started using bokashi bran in my compost. It really helped with the worm population, that was until the mice ate them all. Anyways, here is my leaf compost that I started back in Nov. 2017. It was taking too long by itself, so I added it to my worm bin in Nov 2018. I'm hoping that it will be done by the end of the summer.


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 13, 2019)

Jesselikes2grow said:


> When my compost/Soil mix was too high in K,


I listen to Kis Organics podcast with Tad Hussey and several experts agreed that cannabis needs 2x the amount of K compared to regular food crops. I think that episode #17 explains the soil tests the best.
*https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/podcast*

I know your concern because most farmers go off of "Base saturation ratios" when dealing with a Mehlich 3 soil test. Basically, Ca, Mg, and K need to be in the right ratio to keep lockout issues from happening. The problem is that cannabis is going to have a different base saturation ratio. I can read about this stuff and somewhat understand it, but I don't have a full understanding of everything.


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 13, 2019)

Jesselikes2grow said:


> using unammended coco30%/peat70% blend.


I was using coco coir for worm bedding and I had it tested. It came back super high in potassium and sodium. However, I found out about low sodium coco coir and I might start using it for a slow release K.

I hope that I didn't hijack the thread and people get tired of me! I was just excited that I found some people on the same page as me...


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## raggyb (Mar 13, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> sounds like an interesting experiment! let me know how it goes!


Ok I lied, I took a pic
 
on left is no soil and on right is pete. I wet the pete 3 days ago and sat like this for 3 days so far. water on left wicks up about 1 inch. on right wicks up most if not all the way like 3 inches to the soil. I'd guess the water came out of soil and down the cloth but it seems promising that no matter, in equilibrium it could keep soil from drying out if not outright wick water up. 

Do you know the humidity readings at the top of your working sip, if it's not completely covered that is, and how it compares to your room's rH? I think it would be higher than the ambient rH but how much higher? Seems like a way to help dial in a homemade SIP design.


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## Jesselikes2grow (Mar 13, 2019)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I was trying to get more involved in stuff like this now that I am legal! Hell, I was growing illegally since 2011 in Oklahoma... I have a new camera, so I'll try to take more pics.


I started my own thread as I go on about stuff oftentimes when I sit and smoke. LMFAO, figured I'd keep most of my rambling in my own thread. Hahahaha, wow I found that hilarious. Lol.


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## Jesselikes2grow (Mar 14, 2019)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I listen to Kis Organics podcast with Tad Hussey and several experts agreed that cannabis needs 2x the amount of K compared to regular food crops. I think that episode #17 explains the soil tests the best.
> *https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/podcast*
> 
> I know your concern because most farmers go off of "Base saturation ratios" when dealing with a Mehlich 3 soil test. Basically, Ca, Mg, and K need to be in the right ratio to keep lockout issues from happening. The problem is that cannabis is going to have a different base saturation ratio. I can read about this stuff and somewhat understand it, but I don't have a full understanding of everything.


I made my basis from the burn I was getting and other signs they showed, my cheap soil test and various plant manual testing confirmed it. Not sure which method it employs. Is a series of vials and powders, color based like a ph chart. I had a number of test subjects to use while adjusting soil mix, 1 month cook time between input addition. This Was over a few months time. Was a slow process but worked out well in the end. Final mix soil tester jenny 1d is happy as can be and moved to a 10 gal fab now. Water only so far. Have been documenting in my own thread.


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## Smiffy2k9 (Mar 14, 2019)

Hey lads, i have my sips made they are wicking water well, i have to refill my res every 2 days so far, i will need a bigger res when flowering starts.

For those that didnt see my earlier posts im using sohum living soil. My plants are starting to show a deficiency, i think its a N def, what do you guys think and whats the fix? Not the best picture colour wise bit the bottom leaves are yellowing. As per Sohums instructions these have only been givien plain water.


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 14, 2019)

Jesselikes2grow said:


> I started my own thread as I go on about stuff oftentimes when I sit and smoke. LMFAO, figured I'd keep most of my rambling in my own thread. Hahahaha, wow I found that hilarious. Lol.


Yeah, I feel like I clogged the thread. I was excited because I got my earthboxes yesterday.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 14, 2019)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Yeah, I feel like I clogged the thread. I was excited because I got my earthboxes yesterday.


the thread has been slowing down for a bit, good to see some new folks.


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## Lrn2Yield (Mar 14, 2019)

@ShLUbY How do you feel the Cookies N Chem would do in a scrog? Going to pop some in a few weeks, and kinda wondering if it’s a 1 plant 27 gal sip kinda plant? Does she put out much side growth? Looking to fill a 4x4 tent. Is there a pheno you’d consider dominant? From what I’ve read, a lot of people look for the cookie leaning phenos .. I guess this all comes down to personal preference thou I suppose eh. 

How do all you guys growing in sips, feel about two plants in one container? Will they fight for root space? Will one plant always suffer, if grown this way?


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## Tim Fox (Mar 14, 2019)

Lrn2Yield said:


> @ShLUbY How do you feel the Cookies N Chem would do in a scrog? Going to pop some in a few weeks, and kinda wondering if it’s a 1 plant 27 gal sip kinda plant? Does she put out much side growth? Looking to fill a 4x4 tent. Is there a pheno you’d consider dominant? From what I’ve read, a lot of people look for the cookie leaning phenos .. I guess this all comes down to personal preference thou I suppose eh.
> 
> How do all you guys growing in sips, feel about two plants in one container? Will they fight for root space? Will one plant always suffer, if grown this way?


I did 2 plants Everytime in mine and they always grew fantastic


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## ShLUbY (Mar 14, 2019)

Lrn2Yield said:


> @ShLUbY How do you feel the Cookies N Chem would do in a scrog? Going to pop some in a few weeks, and kinda wondering if it’s a 1 plant 27 gal sip kinda plant? Does she put out much side growth? Looking to fill a 4x4 tent. Is there a pheno you’d consider dominant? From what I’ve read, a lot of people look for the cookie leaning phenos .. I guess this all comes down to personal preference thou I suppose eh.
> 
> How do all you guys growing in sips, feel about two plants in one container? Will they fight for root space? Will one plant always suffer, if grown this way?


this is my first run with the CNC, so I'm not sure what kinda methods it does well with. I'm not even into 3rd week of flower yet so I really can't even speculate. plus it's the seed run, clones always run a little different than the seed run  I'll have a better idea once the cuttings go through flower. The pheno I have seems like a tight brancher that likes to do single colas, so training is probably going to be laborious with this strain, multiple toppings probably going to be the fastest way to get it into a bushy structure. I'd assume I have a pretty cookie dom pheno going here. Not seeing much of any sativa in the structure. big ol fan leaves in veg and stocky structure.


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## ShLUbY (Mar 14, 2019)

Smiffy2k9 said:


> Hey lads, i have my sips made they are wicking water well, i have to refill my res every 2 days so far, i will need a bigger res when flowering starts.
> 
> For those that didnt see my earlier posts im using sohum living soil. My plants are starting to show a deficiency, i think its a N def, what do you guys think and whats the fix? Not the best picture colour wise bit the bottom leaves are yellowing. As per Sohums instructions these have only been givien plain water.


looks like some N def. goin on for sure... possibly a little underwatering as well. small fabs like that will evaporate water quickly. Personally, I would never use a fabric at that stage of growth, only plastic.


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## Lrn2Yield (Mar 14, 2019)

ShLUbY said:


> this is my first run with the CNC, so I'm not sure what kinda methods it does well with. I'm not even into 3rd week of flower yet so I really can't even speculate. plus it's the seed run, clones always run a little different than the seed run  I'll have a better idea once the cuttings go through flower. The pheno I have seems like a tight brancher that likes to do single colas, so training is probably going to be laborious with this strain, multiple toppings probably going to be the fastest way to get it into a bushy structure. I'd assume I have a pretty cookie dom pheno going here. Not seeing much of any sativa in the structure. big ol fan leaves in veg and stocky structure.


Right on man. So you'll pop so many seeds, take cuttings from each and then flower? Do you do this mainly to decide if it's worth running again, you'll have the clones ready to go? More so a taste/yield test run for you ?

Up until this point, I've always just tossed in a female seed and grew whatever showed it's head above soil really, which has worked to a certain degree but over time and learning more makes me want to pop regulars and find that one special pheno that keeps me coming back. If I'm at all lucky, i'll find a good mix of both parents that will satisfy both taste and yield. I guess you could say, in past grows I didn't know how each plant I flowered would end up but I was all in on them based on needing smoke and not taking my time to find that plant that I know will produce . In saying that, it's legal to grow up to 4 plants here now so I picked up a second tent and will have a continuous flow of 3 autos in 1 tent for supply while I attempt to grow a big bush in the 4x4. I hate the feeling of rushing a harvest, just because you're getting low on supply.

Did you run the full pack, to find the plants that you were happy with? Looks like I'm going to have to really work on my clone game, as I'm an absolute atrocious at it haha.

@Tim Fox Appreciate the reply. That second plant in there would most likely cut my veg time in half, filling that 4x4. If you have yet to have any issues, I'm certainly going to give two a try.

Gonna give the fingers a rest, enough typing for one post. Thanks


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## ShLUbY (Mar 14, 2019)

Lrn2Yield said:


> Right on man. So you'll pop so many seeds, take cuttings from each and then flower? Do you do this mainly to decide if it's worth running again, you'll have the clones ready to go? More so a taste/yield test run for you ?
> 
> Up until this point, I've always just tossed in a female seed and grew whatever showed it's head above soil really, which has worked to a certain degree but over time and learning more makes me want to pop regulars and find that one special pheno that keeps me coming back. If I'm at all lucky, i'll find a good mix of both parents that will satisfy both taste and yield. I guess you could say, in past grows I didn't know how each plant I flowered would end up but I was all in on them based on needing smoke and not taking my time to find that plant that I know will produce . In saying that, it's legal to grow up to 4 plants here now so I picked up a second tent and will have a continuous flow of 3 autos in 1 tent for supply while I attempt to grow a big bush in the 4x4. I hate the feeling of rushing a harvest, just because you're getting low on supply.
> 
> ...


When dealing with fem seeds, the genetic diversity is considerably lower, so running fems is gonna yield fairly consistent results. I’m assuming they are selfed.

When running regs, yeah totally different. Looking for that keeper out of the bunch. Generally I’d never chose a plant based on the seed run. I always take cuts and make the first eliminations based on the cuttings once they’ve been flowered. You see mostly structural changes from seed plant to cuttings. The quality usually doesn’t change much at all.

The CNC I’m running now was the only female out of the 4 seeds that made it from the original planting of 6. Two damped off on me for some reason. The female and males all looked pretty consistent really. Probably could have made a decent F2 run with what I had, but I don’t have room for breeding right now. I still have 5 seeds of CNC to go through. Just wanted to see some of what I had and not dedicate an entire run to mystery plants.

I’m currently flowering a pack of Texas butter by greenpoint. Got 7 females outta 10 seeds!! Makes for a lot of work though. I see one pretty weak plant out of the seed run. But as before, I probably won’t eliminate any of them until I see a clone run finish. There are some real frosty phenos in that pack though! I’ll have a clone run of half the phenos flowering in a couple weeks. The other phenos will be a bit behind those.

Just popped 6 Jelly Pie. All six are doing well so far, two days above the soil. Looking for a nice hybrid between the parents. 

Bodega bubblegum is next on the germinate list from greenpoint.

If you need some cloning tips, just message me. I can get you 100% results with an aeroponic cloner.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 14, 2019)

ShLUbY said:


> When dealing with fem seeds, the genetic diversity is considerably lower, so running fems is gonna yield fairly consistent results. I’m assuming they are selfed.
> 
> When running regs, yeah totally different. Looking for that keeper out of the bunch. Generally I’d never chose a plant based on the seed run. I always take cuts and make the first eliminations based on the cuttings once they’ve been flowered. You see mostly structural changes from seed plant to cuttings. The quality usually doesn’t change much at all.
> 
> ...


Dude I made my own aero clone and can NOT get that thing on point.... any help would be awesome!


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## ShLUbY (Mar 15, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Dude I made my own aero clone and can NOT get that thing on point.... any help would be awesome!


RO water, clonex bottle nutrient solution, and ful-power (probably don't even need the ful-power). for my cloner, it's a 5 gal bucket that holds 3 gal of water when loaded full. I run clonex nutrient at 20ml per gallon, and ful-power at 20ml per gal. comes out at perfect pH every time. no water changes for an entire clone run. just make sure the water doesn't get warm from the pump. point a fan at the bucket if you have to.


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## Smiffy2k9 (Mar 15, 2019)

ShLUbY said:


> looks like some N def. goin on for sure... possibly a little underwatering as well. small fabs like that will evaporate water quickly. Personally, I would never use a fabric at that stage of growth, only plastic.


Yeah i missed filling the res a couple of times, first time using sips havent got it down yet, i need to upgrade to a bigger res. They are autos so i prefer not to transplant them.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 15, 2019)

ShLUbY said:


> RO water, clonex bottle nutrient solution, and ful-power (probably don't even need the ful-power). for my cloner, it's a 5 gal bucket that holds 3 gal of water when loaded full. I run clonex nutrient at 20ml per gallon, and ful-power at 20ml per gal. comes out at perfect pH every time. no water changes for an entire clone run. just make sure the water doesn't get warm from the pump. point a fan at the bucket if you have to.


sweet! I will try this out! thanks man!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 15, 2019)

ShLUbY said:


> RO water, clonex bottle nutrient solution, and ful-power (probably don't even need the ful-power). for my cloner, it's a 5 gal bucket that holds 3 gal of water when loaded full. I run clonex nutrient at 20ml per gallon, and ful-power at 20ml per gal. comes out at perfect pH every time. no water changes for an entire clone run. just make sure the water doesn't get warm from the pump. point a fan at the bucket if you have to.


hmm ful power appears to be a humic acid product that is used to make nutes in soils more available.. I think you are right in that you dont need that (not that I would change what you are doing if its working though lol) screw it I will try it as you stated and see how it goes... it can't go worse then my last attempt lol. I can grow some killer buds but I cant seem to clone consistently to save my life!


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## Tim Fox (Mar 15, 2019)

Lrn2Yield said:


> @Tim Fox Appreciate the reply. That second plant in there would most likely cut my veg time in half, filling that 4x4. If you have yet to have any issues, I'm certainly going to give two a try.


yup, you have my word, i do 2 plants in my earthbox and or my grow box and they rock and roll, i never saw one plant take over or crush the other one in any way


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## ShLUbY (Mar 15, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> hmm ful power appears to be a humic acid product that is used to make nutes in soils more available.. I think you are right in that you dont need that (not that I would change what you are doing if its working though lol) screw it I will try it as you stated and see how it goes... it can't go worse then my last attempt lol. I can grow some killer buds but I cant seem to clone consistently to save my life!


i tried it in the cloner because they bottle has cloning and hydroponic applications... so i figured why not. but that's been a recent addition. before I would just use the clonex and it worked great. just keep the pH around 5.5-6.0 and you'll be in good shape.


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Mar 16, 2019)

I got a question about my 8" wick, would this be too large of a wicking point? The totes I am using are Costco 27 gallon standard issue (same as the depot), I plan on making a 6" tall PVC sub-frame to hold the cut down lid in place over the reservoir holding 5" of surplus water, (hopefully) this structure will house one fill tube and one tube for a floating level indicator.

 Here is the picture of the basket in place, also should I drill holes in the upper couple of inches of the basket where it is solid Picture attached?


I plan on growing one plant per tote for now. There is a strong possibility in the future each tote would house two plants. I am putting 4 totes in a 5'x5' tent with plenty of quantum boards.

Is my wick ratio correct with a 8" round, 6" tall basket center mounted on a pvc sub frame in a 27 gallon tote? I have not cut down the lid yet to fit down in the tote. 

Tote size:

Exterior dimensions (at top of tote) 28.55 in. L x 19.61 in. W x 15.27 in. H
Interior dimensions (at bottom of tote) 23.5 in. L x 14.5 in. W x 13 in. H
Basket:
http://www.dlwholesale.com/hydroponics/908118-8-mesh-pot-bucket-lid.asp?catid=A80156DF4C7B4A2A897B1AD7ED30DDC3

Top Opening 8"
height 6" from bottom of oversized lip
Bottom: 6.5"


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## smokinokie (Mar 16, 2019)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> I got a question about my 8" wick, would this be too large of a wicking point? The totes I am using are Costco 27 gallon standard issue (same as the depot), I plan on making a 6" tall PVC sub-frame to hold the cut down lid in place over the reservoir holding 5" of surplus water, (hopefully) this structure will house one fill tube and one tube for a floating level indicator.
> 
> View attachment 4301578 Here is the picture of the basket in place, also should I drill holes in the upper couple of inches of the basket where it is solid Picture attached?
> 
> ...


I used that space on net cup as indicator of 1" air gap. I don't believe water will be above the slots in net cup anyways.


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Mar 16, 2019)

Is a 8" net cup reasonable, if not preferable size for 27 gallon tote? If not would two 6" pots be better? I have been reading through this thread and a lot of others and read you do not want too much wick area. Just trying to make my first sip going to be problem free.


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## Lrn2Yield (Mar 17, 2019)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> I got a question about my 8" wick, would this be too large of a wicking point? The totes I am using are Costco 27 gallon standard issue (same as the depot), I plan on making a 6" tall PVC sub-frame to hold the cut down lid in place over the reservoir holding 5" of surplus water, (hopefully) this structure will house one fill tube and one tube for a floating level indicator.
> 
> View attachment 4301578 Here is the picture of the basket in place, also should I drill holes in the upper couple of inches of the basket where it is solid Picture attached?
> 
> ...


Hey there, I just finished building my sip with basically the same tote, and same size 8” wick as you did. I haven’t grown in these containers yet, so can’t say for certain that this is the ideal sized wick size and from what I’ve read there is a lot of different opinions on which size is best. Are you going to be cutting the inside of the lid out and sit this portion of the lid on your PVC subframe in the bottom of the tote? Net pot sitting about 5 or 6” in the Rez? If I start my grow before you do, I will let you know how the 8” wick works though. I’ve seen similar builds with smaller and larger wicks so it’s all trial and error until we find what works best. 

I built mine using two totes, cutting the hole for the wick out of the bottom of one tote, which sits on two lengths of 3/4” conduit which runs through the other tote. The 3/4” conduit OD is an inch so this gives me my 1” air gap and drilled drain holes just below the pvc so I maintain the 1” gap when filling. I also have a sight tube marked where the 1” air gap starts. Whatever water level is in the tub, shows in the tube. Also drilled two air holes on either end of the tote in that 1” air gap. 

Kind of a rushed reply, as I’m just on my way out but I will Clairfy anything for you if need be.​


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## TheTinkerer (Mar 17, 2019)

So, in these large 20+ gallon sips made of totes, do you ever clean the reservoir?
I mixed up some super soil, it’s been cooking for two weeks. I’d like to try no till, sub irrigated, but I’m not sure if I should use large fabric pots sitting on trays of perlite, or build a tote sip. I worry about something getting funky in the res and it being impossible to clean. Any comments?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 17, 2019)

TheTinkerer said:


> So, in these large 20+ gallon sips made of totes, do you ever clean the reservoir?
> I mixed up some super soil, it’s been cooking for two weeks. I’d like to try no till, sub irrigated, but I’m not sure if I should use large fabric pots sitting on trays of perlite, or build a tote sip. I worry about something getting funky in the res and it being impossible to clean. Any comments?


I am actually going to start ADDING funky stuff to my rez lol EM-1 to be exact. I did just do a clean on and I think it is a good idea to do after each run. Mine are the smaller inntainer version though and it is easier to get the soil portion out of the rez.


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## TheTinkerer (Mar 17, 2019)

I like the idea of the roots being able to grow into the water, but in a no till situation with planters at least 15 gallons, I think I’ll feel better avoiding a built in reservoir. My plan A is to use 15 gallon or larger fabric pots filled with super soil, and put those on top of mortar pans filled with perlite and water. If something goes bad with the water pan, I can lift off the fabric pot and deal with it. 
I guess I just needed to talk myself out of the net pot into reservoir type planter. I’m chicken.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 17, 2019)

TheTinkerer said:


> I like the idea of the roots being able to grow into the water, but in a no till situation with planters at least 15 gallons, I think I’ll feel better avoiding a built in reservoir. My plan A is to use 15 gallon or larger fabric pots filled with super soil, and put those on top of mortar pans filled with perlite and water. If something goes bad with the water pan, I can lift off the fabric pot and deal with it.
> I guess I just needed to talk myself out of the net pot into reservoir type planter. I’m chicken.


lol I just followed the inntainer method that is posted earlier in the thread since it was already something proven to work years ago. No need to re make the wheel imo. and those are built with the wick all the way in the water and they work GREAT for me! But many many ways to do things and you do what works for you!


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## TheTinkerer (Mar 17, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> lol I just followed the inntainer method that is posted earlier in the thread since it was already something proven to work years ago. No need to re make the wheel imo. and those are built with the wick all the way in the water and they work GREAT for me! But many many ways to do things and you do what works for you!


I tried searching the thread for innertainer but I didn’t find any designs. Any suggestions on finding?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 17, 2019)

search this vid on the you tube!!! 

*The Earthbox and Probiotic Farming - Kevin Jodrey, Patrick King and Alan Albin Adkisson*


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 18, 2019)

TheTinkerer said:


> I tried searching the thread for innertainer but I didn’t find any designs. Any suggestions on finding?


sorry not sure how I missed this post lol ... Here are the designs attached!!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 18, 2019)

TheTinkerer said:


> I tried searching the thread for innertainer but I didn’t find any designs. Any suggestions on finding?


here are some pics of mine in progress and what they produce (-:


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 18, 2019)

got my grokashi today! excited to top dress these (hopefully) ladies and get some fungus going! Em-1 still on the way but should be here very soon!


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Mar 20, 2019)

ShLUbY said:


> RO water, clonex bottle nutrient solution, and ful-power (probably don't even need the ful-power). for my cloner, it's a 5 gal bucket that holds 3 gal of water when loaded full. I run clonex nutrient at 20ml per gallon, and ful-power at 20ml per gal. comes out at perfect pH every time. no water changes for an entire clone run. just make sure the water doesn't get warm from the pump. point a fan at the bucket if you have to.


I cloned for my very first time with a EZ cloner 120, I went 64 for 64 on getting roots and planted! After doing research I found the miracle for cloning CHEAP!!!

Instead of using CloneX solution in the reservoir, I use pool chlorine (small amount). It is cheap as hell and works awesome. Also make sure your reservoir temperature doesn't get too hot. I ran my pump one minute on 3 off.


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Mar 20, 2019)

I thought I would share some pics of my very first SIPs, they are similar to others but are built from costco 27 gallon totes and have a builtin pvc subframe with a 8" net pot for wicking. The second PVC tube will be for a level indicator.
  

Also about the wicking process, how long does it take for the soil to wick up the moisture to the top, do I need to EM1 on the first fill up or will the water be sucked up from the res quickly where I don't have to worry about it? EM1 is currently activating and has about a week left. Using the concentrate gets expensive, I figured out I would probably need 24 oz of EM1 (I'm guessing the reservoirs hold about 6 gallons) just to fill the reservoirs the first time.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 20, 2019)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> I thought I would share some pics of my very first SIPs, they are similar to others but are built from costco 27 gallon totes and have a builtin pvc subframe with a 8" net pot for wicking. The second PVC tube will be for a level indicator.
> View attachment 4303723 View attachment 4303724 View attachment 4303725
> 
> Also about the wicking process, how long does it take for the soil to wick up the moisture to the top, do I need to EM1 on the first fill up or will the water be sucked up from the res quickly where I don't have to worry about it? EM1 is currently activating and has about a week left. Using the concentrate gets expensive, I figured out I would probably need 24 oz of EM1 (I'm guessing the reservoirs hold about 6 gallons) just to fill the reservoirs the first time.


I am not sure on the EM-1 amounts but hmm I better activate mine as well each of my rez's is about 4 gallons. As far as the soil goes the inntainer outline I read says you need to moisten your wick after you add the soil to it and start with nice moist soil as well so the wick starts and then have some kind of cover crop or lid. I am also going to start adding a layer of grokashi to the top under my mulch as well. Nice looking SIPs man! and love the 100% clone... I need to get my cloning tech down ugh lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 20, 2019)

update on the the Bodhi Bing SIPs! I decided to scrap the 2 late transplants.. it appears their root system never recovered and they are easily being over shadowed by these large (WOW am I hoping these are all ladies lol) I topped them once and will be topping once maybe twice more. Added grokashi under the straw mulch and 4 ounces of EM-1 to each 4 gallon rez and topped them all off. not sure when I will pop them into flower but when I do, I am thinking of still using my 600 watt hps in the middle of the room and a 250 watt 5 CXB 3590 cree fixture on each side. Will someday upgrade to all LEDs. Some flower pics some time soon here. Hope all is well for everyone and welcome all you new folks to the SIP thread!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 20, 2019)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> I thought I would share some pics of my very first SIPs, they are similar to others but are built from costco 27 gallon totes and have a builtin pvc subframe with a 8" net pot for wicking. The second PVC tube will be for a level indicator.
> View attachment 4303723 View attachment 4303724 View attachment 4303725
> 
> Also about the wicking process, how long does it take for the soil to wick up the moisture to the top, do I need to EM1 on the first fill up or will the water be sucked up from the res quickly where I don't have to worry about it? EM1 is currently activating and has about a week left. Using the concentrate gets expensive, I figured out I would probably need 24 oz of EM1 (I'm guessing the reservoirs hold about 6 gallons) just to fill the reservoirs the first time.


here is the inntainer instructions if you are interested. Not something that I made up something that has been around for a long time.. the bottom of page 11 talks about how the wick works.


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Mar 20, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> here is the inntainer instructions if you are interested. Not something that I made up something that has been around for a long time.. the bottom of page 11 talks about how the wick works.


Thanks, I missed that the first time and the second and third , Instructions at bottom for the people like me. 

I might have to downsize the wicking pot size from 8" to 6" after reading the instructions but still not sure because my totes are 2x as big. 

Or maybe throw some grow stones (I have lots of gs-2 grow stones on hand) on the side of the wicking basket in-between the baskets and burlap (maybe in its own burlap "pouch") to shrink the area of the wicking? I know the grow stones might wick themselves but it could shrink the wicking amount, but also would it be needed?



Instructions I missed...

Step 2. Fill the wicking basket with Grow Media at this time. Pack firmly into the basket until water seeps up into the top of the mix. Make a 1” to -1/2” high “cupcake” mound of the Grow Media above the wicking basket opening and thoroughly wet. This is VERY important to maintain wicking as the Grow Media settles in the wicking basket over time.

Step 3. Continue adding layers of the Grow Media thoroughly saturated with moisture, then stop when the Grow Media is within 4” from the top.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 20, 2019)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> Thanks, I missed that the first time and the second and third , Instructions at bottom for the people like me.
> 
> I might have to downsize the wicking pot size from 8" to 6" after reading the instructions but still not sure because my totes are 2x as big.
> 
> ...


I think that if your totes are that much larger you should be able to get away with the 8" net pot.


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Mar 20, 2019)

I guess there is one way to find out...

Go big or go home.

There might be something said about the height of the tote too (14" tall, soil line around 9-10") and hydraulic forces at work against the wicking (complete BS knowledge FYI, but a guess).


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 20, 2019)

I got my EarthBox about a week ago and it turned a unhealthy clone onto the path of quick recovery. Time to topdress with some compost.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 25, 2019)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I got my EarthBox about a week ago and it turned a unhealthy clone onto the path of quick recovery. Time to topdress with some compost.
> View attachment 4304035


Yup fill the earth box all the way to the top with grow media ,even pile it up past the top.


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## Tstat (Mar 26, 2019)

I’m still about a month out from needing my sips, but I’m very excited to get going!


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## Rocket Soul (Mar 26, 2019)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> Thanks, I missed that the first time and the second and third , Instructions at bottom for the people like me.
> 
> I might have to downsize the wicking pot size from 8" to 6" after reading the instructions but still not sure because my totes are 2x as big.
> 
> ...


+1 on using a wick smaller than 6-8 inches. Generally the amount of wicking and thus the amount of water in your substrate is mostly related to (in order of importance according to MHO):
Wideness of wick
Distance between lowest level of soil and water surface (or better yet, lets say height of wick.)
How absorbent your wick material is. 

I once used a pasta strainer with hydroton for wick; the plant was allways overwatered. I thought the material would make up for the wick being so big and wide but no.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 26, 2019)

Rocket Soul said:


> +1 on using a wick smaller than 6-8 inches. Generally the amount of wicking and thus the amount of water in your substrate is mostly related to (in order of importance according to MHO):
> Wideness of wick
> Distance between lowest level of soil and water surface (or better yet, lets say height of wick.)
> How absorbent your wick material is.
> ...


yup, i am always surprised at how small the wicks are in my earthbox and grow box,


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Mar 26, 2019)

Rocket Soul said:


> +1 on using a wick smaller than 6-8 inches. Generally the amount of wicking and thus the amount of water in your substrate is mostly related to (in order of importance according to MHO):
> Wideness of wick
> Distance between lowest level of soil and water surface (or better yet, lets say height of wick.)
> How absorbent your wick material is.
> ...



Thanks for the info. Somehow my 8" wick is not getting enough water to the bed and can't figure out why. After doing a little research I found that water wicks to about 300mm (~12") over the reservoir water line. From the top of my dirt to the reservoir water line is slightly less than 12". Currently I have my soil in the wicking baskets, should I maybe put grow stones in the wicking basket? I have plenty of those on hand.

Also I started with dry dirt that I added some water too, doesn't feel completely dry now but doesn't feel too moist either.

How wet should dirt in a wicking bed feel?


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## Rocket Soul (Mar 26, 2019)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> Thanks for the info. Somehow my 8" wick is not getting enough water to the bed and can't figure out why. After doing a little research I found that water wicks to about 300mm (~12") over the reservoir water line. From the top of my dirt to the reservoir water line is slightly less than 12". Currently I have my soil in the wicking baskets, should I maybe put grow stones in the wicking basket? I have plenty of those on hand.
> 
> Also I started with dry dirt that I added some water too, doesn't feel completely dry now but doesn't feel too moist either.
> 
> How wet should dirt in a wicking bed feel?


When you say 8 inches do you mean wide or long? Wow, so many ways of making fun out of that phrase.


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## Rocket Soul (Mar 26, 2019)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> Thanks for the info. Somehow my 8" wick is not getting enough water to the bed and can't figure out why. After doing a little research I found that water wicks to about 300mm (~12") over the reservoir water line. From the top of my dirt to the reservoir water line is slightly less than 12". Currently I have my soil in the wicking baskets, should I maybe put grow stones in the wicking basket? I have plenty of those on hand.
> 
> Also I started with dry dirt that I added some water too, doesn't feel completely dry now but doesn't feel too moist either.
> 
> How wet should dirt in a wicking bed feel?


How far your water wicks depends on: 
Width of wick
Distance from water level
Material of wick, how absorbent it is. 

When you say 8 inch wicks it seems strange if you cannot get enough wicking if its the width.


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Mar 26, 2019)

Rocket Soul said:


> When you say 8 inches do you mean wide or long? Wow, so many ways of making fun out of that phrase.


Trust me it is hard not to joke about my wick size.

It measures 8" wide and 6" tall

specs: http://www.dlwholesale.com/hydroponics/908118-8-mesh-pot-bucket-lid.asp?catid=A80156DF4C7B4A2A897B1AD7ED30DDC3


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Mar 26, 2019)

I might have an inch and a half between the h2o line and bottom of soil. It also has a lip that sticks up about a quarter of an inch. Should I measure at the top of the wick to extend the length?


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## Rocket Soul (Mar 26, 2019)

Im already stoned and having a hard time to see your setup in front of me. It should be plenty as far as i know. Maybe your bed isnt wicking because you havent wet it properly, it needs a bit of moist to start wicking properly.


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Mar 26, 2019)

Rocket Soul said:


> Im already stoned and having a hard time to see your setup in front of me. It should be plenty as far as i know. Maybe your bed isnt wicking because you havent wet it properly, it needs a bit of moist to start wicking properly.


I'm going to take your advice and whisper sweet nothings in the ear of my dry soil in hopes of making it moist enough to accept my 8" wick. Sorry, could help it...


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 26, 2019)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> Thanks for the info. Somehow my 8" wick is not getting enough water to the bed and can't figure out why. After doing a little research I found that water wicks to about 300mm (~12") over the reservoir water line. From the top of my dirt to the reservoir water line is slightly less than 12". Currently I have my soil in the wicking baskets, should I maybe put grow stones in the wicking basket? I have plenty of those on hand.
> 
> Also I started with dry dirt that I added some water too, doesn't feel completely dry now but doesn't feel too moist either.
> 
> How wet should dirt in a wicking bed feel?


I may sound like a broken record but go and look at the section on the inntainer PDF I posted earlier that talks about filling the wick.. you should really be packing it with pete moss and packing it in the ENTIRE wick firmly while watering it and making sure it is very moist. Then you need a mound over the wick packed down and wet also. Setting up your wick properly and wetting your soil when initially making your SIP is very key.. I think more so then actual size of your wick... I have been using the inntainer method for ...at least 3 grows and it works hence why I follow it.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 26, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I may sound like a broken record but go and look at the section on the inntainer PDF I posted earlier that talks about filling the wick.. you should really be packing it with pete moss and packing it in the ENTIRE wick firmly while watering it and making sure it is very moist. Then you need a mound over the wick packed down and wet also. Setting up your wick properly and wetting your soil when initially making your SIP is very key.. I think more so then actual size of your wick... I have been using the inntainer method for ...at least 3 grows and it works hence why I follow it.


Yup, what he just said


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 26, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Yup, what he just said


I think I need to post more pics so people know I am as legit as you Tim lol (-;


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Mar 26, 2019)

I definitely believe you're legit! I thoroughly wet my beds and am praying they will not be too wet. I have an idea to convert it to a 4" net pot if need be.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 27, 2019)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> I definitely believe you're legit! I thoroughly wet my beds and am praying they will not be too wet. I have an idea to convert it to a 4" net pot if need be.


i wonder if there is a way to meausre the moisture content of the soil ,, say in an earthbox, and then measure the moisture in a home made sip,, and make a comparision,, i have never seen anyone do such a thing, , i know with the covers on my earthbox/growbox,, if you lift the cover the surface soil is just slightly damp,, so the moisture does reach the top when covered, also earth boxes put the wicks on the outside edge,, not in the middle, i dont know if having 2 small wicks near the edge is better for some reason,, or ?


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## Tstat (Mar 27, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> also earth boxes put the wicks on the outside edge,, not in the middle,


Is that the same for the Growbox?


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Mar 27, 2019)

I think my design has to pivot but I see a feature from my 8" huge wick idea. I'm going to call it the ring of roots, hopefully, after I zip tie the cut out pieces back in I am hoping a nice ring of roots will appear. More holes will be drilled too.

 

For a wicking point I am thinking about 2 drainage pipes of 3-4" on on opposing diagonal corners, not sure on size. Also I am going to buy a bail of Sphagnum peat moss and add about a cubic foot to each tote, removing the same amount of soil. This is to ensure a good wicking action my first rodeo, size I think there is too much manure is my soil. I will probably throw some grow stones in there too (gs-2) with the peat moss. 

What size wicking points would you pick as a preferred method for stereo wicks in this tote (27gal)?


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Mar 27, 2019)

Referring back to the inn-tainer instructions it says to use a 5" net pot but a 3" hole in the bottom of the tote. So I am guessing I might just go with the 5" net pot and 3" hole. Also maybe mimic the Growboxes and put the wicks on the same sides as the each other (long ways). 

I think using two 5" netpots with 3" ports through the tote will be my course of action. Should I be worried about organic sphagnum peat moss at the big box stores (EX https://www.homedepot.com/p/3-cu-ft-Peat-Moss-3001-CFC003P/205883917 )?


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## Tim Fox (Mar 28, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Is that the same for the Growbox?


yes, the grow box has 2 wicks, and they are spread left to right,, i really should take some pictures for you,, ill try and do that


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## Tstat (Mar 28, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> i really should take some pictures for you,, ill try and do that


If you want, but like I said, I am a month or so from purchasing. I'm just wondering if I should go all in on a 10 pack of Growboxes, or try them out first.


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Mar 28, 2019)

Tstat said:


> If you want, but like I said, I am a month or so from purchasing. I'm just wondering if I should go all in on a 10 pack of Growboxes, or try them out first.


That sounds like a personal preference... Do you like the pressure of shit hitting the fan on 10 plants or just one? I always dive head first into shallow water, it makes for more exciting times.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 28, 2019)

Tstat said:


> If you want, but like I said, I am a month or so from purchasing. I'm just wondering if I should go all in on a 10 pack of Growboxes, or try them out first.


go big or go home right? (-:


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## Tstat (Mar 28, 2019)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> I always dive head first into shallow water, it makes for more exciting times.


Yea, I hear ya. It’s just that I have never used a sip, I could try an Earthbox and a Growbox and see which one I like better. Eventually I want to settle on one, fill my room with like 6 of them and use 4 outside for veggies.


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## Smiffy2k9 (Mar 28, 2019)

Well lads,

My homemade fabric sips are working away, when filling the res yesterday i noticed some mould growing on the diy water level float i had made from a skewer and polystyrene. Any ideas why it grew and how to prevent it coming back?


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## raggyb (Mar 30, 2019)

Smiffy2k9 said:


> Well lads,
> 
> My homemade fabric sips are working away, when filling the res yesterday i noticed some mould growing on the diy water level float i had made from a skewer and polystyrene. Any ideas why it grew and how to prevent it coming back?


maybe try some plastic chopsticks instead of wood.


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## Smiffy2k9 (Mar 30, 2019)

raggyb said:


> maybe try some plastic chopsticks instead of wood.


You know, reading that not stoned it makes sense ha


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## raggyb (Mar 30, 2019)

Smiffy2k9 said:


> You know, reading that not stoned it makes sense ha


lol, that makes me feel good because I was stoned when I wrote it.


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## Tstat (Apr 4, 2019)

I am getting really close to needing some SIPs. I have 6 Space Monkeys ready to chop next week. After that, I have 6 more that I will be taking out of the RDWC and putting into 5 gallon DWC buckets, allowing me to dismantle the RDWC and start installing the SIPs!

I have to admit, as it gets closer to a reality, I am nervous about the switch. I’ve been doing hydro for decades and don’t want to mess up a good thing, but I’m done with the RDWC.

I have questions about the soil being too moist from wicking. I still haven’t decided which one to buy. I have questions about using just organic soil and no ferts! I wonder how big the vegged plants should be when I place them in the SIP. Help!


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## Tstat (Apr 5, 2019)

It also worries me just how dead this thread is these days.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 5, 2019)

Tstat said:


> It also worries me just how dead this thread is these days.


ill get off my ass and get you a couple of pictures of the sips growbox and earthbox so you can see the comparison,,, one of the nice things about buying these sips is the thinking is already done, they wick perfect and the soil is just right,, 
I have always done bag soil and the Trench of dry nutes,, always a perfect run every time,, its so darn easy you will love yourself for doing the switch,,, i kid you not,,


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## Tstat (Apr 5, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> its so darn easy you will love yourself for doing the switch


I just need some reassurance, lol!


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## Tim Fox (Apr 6, 2019)

Tstat said:


> I just need some reassurance, lol!


Sure thing,. Let me tell you I do not miss mixing nutes and pH ing water and testing meters and hauling gallons of water back and forth I don't miss drained water and on and on, all of that goes away with sips , talk about easy and you will love that part


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## Tstat (Apr 6, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Let me tell you I do not miss mixing nutes


OK, so in hydro, you have nutes designed for vegging and low N nutes for flowering. How is it that a souped-up soil can deliver the correct amounts of nutes throughout the life of the plant?


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## Tim Fox (Apr 6, 2019)

Tstat said:


> OK, so in hydro, you have nutes designed for vegging and low N nutes for flowering. How is it that a souped-up soil can deliver the correct amounts of nutes throughout the life of the plant?


Hum that seems more like a question for God hahaha


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## Tim Fox (Apr 6, 2019)

Kidding aside soil , well good soil contains all building blocks for plants , I have not dived in to no till soil myself, but those guys are the one who can technical answer that question for you , I grew hydro years ago on a garage, but now I buy high quality soil and use dry organic nutes and I stick the plant in and just ad water the whole ride, as I sit here this afternoon smoking the fruits of my labor or hahaha lack of work , what ever goes on down in that dirt is all this guy needs


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## Tim Fox (Apr 6, 2019)

Tstat said:


> OK, so in hydro, you have nutes designed for vegging and low N nutes for flowering. How is it that a souped-up soil can deliver the correct amounts of nutes throughout the life of the plant?


Also you should use the trech method I showed a few posts back because after dumping the dirt out after the grow the trench is still there with nutes still in it and the plants send just a few roots right into the trench some were thick fat roots like it sent feeders I to the trench , and the water roots in my sip res look like water roots you would see in a dwc ,


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## Tstat (Apr 7, 2019)

Yea, I need to look into the trench. What dry nutes do you use? Where exactly does the trench go?


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## Tim Fox (Apr 7, 2019)

Tstat said:


> OK, so in hydro, you have nutes designed for vegging and low N nutes for flowering. How is it that a souped-up soil can deliver the correct amounts of nutes throughout the life of the plant?


so i dug thru this thread and found my old pics,, with the earthbox you can see i had to space it up on blocks and put a pan under the over flow, this in turn caused many issues,, leaks, over flows, and more,,, with the grow box you can see the deeper res,, but its 2 piece ,, you can see the res, right thru the front where you fill it,, and you can see how much water is in the res at a moment,, where you cant with the earthbox,


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## Tim Fox (Apr 7, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Yea, I need to look into the trench. What dry nutes do you use? Where exactly does the trench go?


, here is the trench video
now this video is simply to show you how to do the trench,,, i am not suggesting you reuse last years soil ,, because the guy in the video is just a patio gardner and is growing his summer veggies probably,
I use organic tomato nutes, hahah been working like a charm, i used to use Happy Frog Fruit and Flower organic dry nute, more geared for flowering,
he puts the trench in at 4:40 mark


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## Tim Fox (Apr 7, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Yea, I need to look into the trench. What dry nutes do you use? Where exactly does the trench go?


he shows how to position the trench based on what order your going to plant plants, ,, a long row across the middle if doing long rows,, i did the 3 short trenches, left center right, because i grow 2 cannabis plants


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## Tim Fox (Apr 7, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Yea, I need to look into the trench. What dry nutes do you use? Where exactly does the trench go?


in this picture you can see how the length wise trench goes, and then cover the trench with 2 to 3 inches of soil,, when growing in a earthbox/growbox you pile the dirt up above the top fo the container, in a mound, the center of my mounds end up about 2 inches higher than the sides of the earthbox, because you never top water,, this way you get more soil in your sip, i can fit an enter bag of Fox Farms ocean forrest 1,5 cubic feet in 1 earth box by doing this method


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## Tstat (Apr 7, 2019)

@Tim Fox , thanks so much for this. I remember seeing this when I first read through the thread. I think next week I go ahead and buy a 10 pack of GrowBoxs:
https://www.agardenpatch.com/buy-10-growbox-and-save/


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## Tim Fox (Apr 7, 2019)

Tstat said:


> @Tim Fox , thanks so much for this. I remember seeing this when I first read through the thread. I think next week I go ahead and buy a 10 pack of GrowBoxs:
> https://www.agardenpatch.com/buy-10-growbox-and-save/


your going to trip out after you get going, what are you going to do with all your free time when you ditch hyrdo hahah


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## raggyb (Apr 7, 2019)

Made a few different home made Sips. Some working better than others but no logic to it yet. Here a sort of side by side. These 2 were born at the same time and grew in Solos. The left was just a little bigger at the time and I put it in the SIP. The right I put in a 1 gal fabric pot. Left was a little further from light actually. It probably had a 30 day head start in the SIP. Then I put the right in a SIP, about 7 days ago. Here they are

   

It's not perfect comparison because they only 1/4 the same genetics and the big could be male and the small female, and so on. It's funny because the big one started getting huge even at first when I hardly put any water in and the wick wasn't working meaning the level wasn't moving and the air gap was like 9 inches and I was only top watering so I don't know why it took off but it did.


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## NewGrower2011 (Apr 20, 2019)

So looking for some of the SIP guru's to help me plan my first attempt; I've had some containers I was sitting on otherwise thinking of making them flood & drain setups but after a couple organic runs in 7gal smart pots I'm looking into the SIP angle but the whole wick size & material thing is an aspect I haven't quite gotten my mind made up on.

I'm looking at these Rubbermaid Brute Totes; They nest within each other very nicely so the 14gal sitting in the 20gal seems to make a nice snug fit and appears it should leave a modest reservoir size. I know it's somewhere around that 4 gal range which I'm again unsure if that's a sufficient size or not.

https://www.rubbermaidcommercial.com/material-handling/storage/brute-totes-with-lid/?sku=FG9S3100GRAY

There's white food grade versions but I already have 3 of each in grey so for now that's my start; Wish I had gotten the food grade ones but I found these in-store a few years back and knew they were rugged and good for the hobby! 

Any recommendations on wick setup/material in that footprint? I'd like 2 wicks I think as I'll likely put 2 plants per and it also makes sense on helping distribute the moisture it's wicking.


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## raggyb (Apr 20, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> So looking for some of the SIP guru's to help me plan my first attempt; I've had some containers I was sitting on otherwise thinking of making them flood & drain setups but after a couple organic runs in 7gal smart pots I'm looking into the SIP angle but the whole wick size & material thing is an aspect I haven't quite gotten my mind made up on.
> 
> I'm looking at these Rubbermaid Brute Totes; They nest within each other very nicely so the 14gal sitting in the 20gal seems to make a nice snug fit and appears it should leave a modest reservoir size. I know it's somewhere around that 4 gal range which I'm again unsure if that's a sufficient size or not.
> 
> ...


Can I chime in as a non-expert? I'm just starting and totally messing around. I think your totes look a good choice and though food grade sounds great think I'd be glad not to have white because i think you don't want light in the reservoir. I just started one probably close to that size using two 4" netpots. Needed a nice lip on them though so they dont fall through. The soil is getting damp all the way to the top and two plants in there each directly above a netpot and doing fine. I felt I wanted something plain in the wick so water doesn't get icky so I put 80% pete 20% perlite in the netpot only and it seems fine. I recommend you make a level gage of some kind described earlier if you weren't already thinking of it. 
P.S. I drilled extra holes in the top of the netpot for roots to grow through into the airgap.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 20, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> So looking for some of the SIP guru's to help me plan my first attempt; I've had some containers I was sitting on otherwise thinking of making them flood & drain setups but after a couple organic runs in 7gal smart pots I'm looking into the SIP angle but the whole wick size & material thing is an aspect I haven't quite gotten my mind made up on.
> 
> I'm looking at these Rubbermaid Brute Totes; They nest within each other very nicely so the 14gal sitting in the 20gal seems to make a nice snug fit and appears it should leave a modest reservoir size. I know it's somewhere around that 4 gal range which I'm again unsure if that's a sufficient size or not.
> 
> ...


The inntainers pdf I posted earlier is very similar to this ans uses 5 inch net pots. It is what I have been running for about... 2 years ish now? And they are awesome and fool proof! Welcome to the easiest growing ever!


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## NewGrower2011 (Apr 21, 2019)

So the wick deal, when I looked at how the containers nest it appears there's basically 9" gap to bottom. That's a 22x14 footprint so somewhere around 9.8g if I did my math correct. So large enough I think after all even with an air gap of a couple inches. 

Now, does the wick have to make it all the way to the bottom? I'm assuming yes - unless you top water and get them to finally send roots down which I don't want to do that I want wicking from day 1. I was wondering about literally using net pots with nylon rope wicks that dangle into the rez and then the wick material would hopefully draw from them Not sure on what materials can I use or any I should not for that matter. 

Otherwise it looks like I need to use pvc pipe of some sorts or that drainage corrugated pipe; Seems like best options readily available to the layman at big box stores. I was looking for some type of flanges to use and was coming up with nothing on last store trip but will be searching online shortly.


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## NewGrower2011 (Apr 21, 2019)

Another Q I hadn't fully resolved - when nested there's about a 1/4 gap around that would let considerable air in/out to the rez. On the one hand I think allowing the air exchange is a good thing, but then I think about the heat transfer and evaporation/humidity control aspects. It looks like something I could easily get some of that window/door trim foam stuff and make it a snug fit if I want to seal things up better but I wasn't sold either way.


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## Tstat (Apr 22, 2019)

Hey guys, I am not using SIPs yet as I am still vegging and waiting for the remaining hydro plants to finish up. I am running into a problem as the plants get bigger. I started a thread over on the MJ Plant problems area, but I figure I'd post it here as well.

Clones are in 1 gallon pots with organic soil. I use a combo of Greentree Growers Blend, Happy Frog, perilite, coco, and verm. I use tap water to water and have used a small amount of Roots Organics Buddha Grow.
I am just starting to grow organically after decades of hydro, so I am not used to diagnosing deficiencies. This symptom is showing up as the plants get bigger. This one is now 3-4 weeks old. Could it be due to the plant needing a repotting? Cal Mag problem? Something else?





Any help will be greatly appreciated. I want to get over to the grow store today and get whatever I need to fix this!


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## Avant_Gardener (Apr 22, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Hey guys, I am not using SIPs yet as I am still vegging and waiting for the remaining hydro plants to finish up. I am running into a problem as the plants get bigger. I started a thread over on the MJ Plant problems area, but I figure I'd post it here as well.
> 
> Clones are in 1 gallon pots with organic soil. I use a combo of Greentree Growers Blend, Happy Frog, perilite, coco, and verm. I use tap water to water and have used a small amount of Roots Organics Buddha Grow.
> I am just starting to grow organically after decades of hydro, so I am not used to diagnosing deficiencies. This symptom is showing up as the plants get bigger. This one is now 3-4 weeks old. Could it be due to the plant needing a repotting? Cal Mag problem? Something else?
> ...


Off the top of my head, my first thoughts are it look like a potassium issue.


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## raggyb (Apr 22, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> Another Q I hadn't fully resolved - when nested there's about a 1/4 gap around that would let considerable air in/out to the rez. On the one hand I think allowing the air exchange is a good thing, but then I think about the heat transfer and evaporation/humidity control aspects. It looks like something I could easily get some of that window/door trim foam stuff and make it a snug fit if I want to seal things up better but I wasn't sold either way.


So if you have 9" that's a bit more than I thought and a 5" pot would be better than 4" then. I'm trying things out too, but I think dangling some fabric strips is a good idea but not sure about nylon rope. 

On the airgap I'm not sure I understand why your bins don't nest right. I thought there would be no air gap. I have a gap on a bin in a bin but it's because the top bin is sitting on bricks in the bottom bin to raise it up. I put some weather proof in but some of that stuff is like totally toxic so I used stuff that isn't toxic but it didn't fit perfect. I was more worried about light getting in. Maybe stuffing a towel in would be just as good. 1 or 2 drill holes will let air in too.


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## NewGrower2011 (Apr 23, 2019)

On these specific Brute totes, the handles are heavy duty and the top tote rests atop the bottom due to the handles overhanging. So with that a small gap remains between the sides of the top & the rim of the bottom.

I need to do a weight test to mimic the full soil load but I suspect it'll be fine - these things are very thick/well built which is why I was targeting them. Can't have leaks from cheap shitty totes cracking - I had that on a 1st timer aero cloner DIY build and came home to find it dry but no signs of water anywhere cuz' it was all in my floor/carpet pad. How many pounds would an average super soil weigh you think? When fully wet/saturated and that would be my worse case load test target I'd imagine - that plus a little weight for plant itself (hopefully lots of weight but you get my point  )


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## NewGrower2011 (Apr 23, 2019)

I'm not a risk taker, so I may just make a small pvc frame to support the top tote weight as a just-in-case move and cover the what-ifs.


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## raggyb (Apr 23, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> I'm not a risk taker, so I may just make a small pvc frame to support the top tote weight as a just-in-case move and cover the what-ifs.


probably a good idea if the top tote doesn't 'snap on the bottom one. I had one design fail where I made a platform out of the lid and it collapsed to the bottom. The funny thing is the plants in that one are doing fine even though the soil is totally soggy. So probably the whole bin is a wick.

From that I think you can estimate on the high end to be safe the weight of wet soil by the weight of water or maybe a little less. So if you have like 10G soil in there wtf how heavy is water, .. uh 1L is 1kg so what, 36kg which is ~80lbs. So fucking heavy. Test it with a couple dumbells before filling.


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## MustangStudFarm (Apr 28, 2019)

Avant_Gardener said:


> Off the top of my head, my first thoughts are it look like a potassium issue.


+1 I would have to get on my old computer to find it, but there is an article talking about the serrated edges showing K signs. I recently went through the same thing.


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## MustangStudFarm (Apr 28, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Hey guys, I am not using SIPs yet as I am still vegging and waiting for the remaining hydro plants to finish up. I am running into a problem as the plants get bigger. I started a thread over on the MJ Plant problems area, but I figure I'd post it here as well.
> 
> Clones are in 1 gallon pots with organic soil. I use a combo of Greentree Growers Blend, Happy Frog, perilite, coco, and verm. I use tap water to water and have used a small amount of Roots Organics Buddha Grow.
> I am just starting to grow organically after decades of hydro, so I am not used to diagnosing deficiencies. This symptom is showing up as the plants get bigger. This one is now 3-4 weeks old. Could it be due to the plant needing a repotting? Cal Mag problem? Something else?
> ...


Have you been using too much Cal or Mag? I've noticed that there are not that many K inputs other than kelp, but kelp has a lot of sodium. I heard that adding coco coir that has the sodium washed out would help with K in your soil mix. I'm assuming that you are using peat. Greensand is another option for K, Mn, and iron but takes a long time to break down.


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## MustangStudFarm (Apr 28, 2019)

Tstat said:


> I am getting really close to needing some SIPs. I have 6 Space Monkeys ready to chop next week. After that, I have 6 more that I will be taking out of the RDWC and putting into 5 gallon DWC buckets, allowing me to dismantle the RDWC and start installing the SIPs!
> 
> I have to admit, as it gets closer to a reality, I am nervous about the switch. I’ve been doing hydro for decades and don’t want to mess up a good thing, but I’m done with the RDWC.
> 
> I have questions about the soil being too moist from wicking. I still haven’t decided which one to buy. I have questions about using just organic soil and no ferts! I wonder how big the vegged plants should be when I place them in the SIP. Help!


Have you looked into probiotics to go with the SIPs? I'm trying to look out for a fellow Bodhi-head. The only thing that I did different from this video was add a fermented plant juice FPJ.


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## MustangStudFarm (Apr 28, 2019)

I decided that my 1st SIP was going be exactly the way Alan Adkisson suggested and use an earthbox, grokashi, EM1, and malibu compost. I just didn't want something to go wrong like my homemade grokashi or LABs and I wanted to give it an honest effort before I made the full switch. My clones were in pretty bad shape when I put them in my earthboxes, but they look better than ever. I haven't flowered yet, but I'm sold. I'm about to invest in the "Roots and Veg" style earthbox. The only difference is that it is square and deeper, the cubic feet and rez size are the same.
-March 21st- 2nd week in my new Earthboxes. Clackamas Coots recipe for the soil along with EM1 and FPJ in the rez.
 

Alan Adkisson said to add the soil and topdress with Grokashi. Wait a week for the mycelium, then topdress with Malibu compost. He said to get the mycelium mat established before topdressing.
 

I've only watered them 2x since March 21st. They are under a 8x bulb T5. There are 2x Earthboxes. Not a single spot or curled leaf anywhere, except for the original growth.
 
 

EarthBox "Root and Veg" style


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## NewGrower2011 (Apr 28, 2019)

For anyone curious, I did a weight stress test on those Rubbermaid Brute Totes. I have the smaller one nested within the larger and the weight bearing portion of the setup is basically the plastic handles on the sides of the top tote. 

For this test, I stacked a bunch of on-hand supplies into the tub and tried to spread the weight evenly (somewhat) but there was a focus in the dead middle as the supplies included a 5lb bucket of kelp meal with a big bag of ewc and ancient forest - all dead weight. I did one overnight and then added more weight so this was over the course of 2.5 to 3 days. The total weight once I measured and added things up came to 114.3 lb!!!

There is barely a noticeable sag in the bottom of the tub and the handles bearing the load aren't showing any signs of distress. Even with this exercise I may still build a frame in there to help bear the load - but in theory it's over engineering. Now this same test done over a much longer period of time AND HEAT CONDITIONS may result in a different outcome. If the ambient temps weakened the plastic/etc that'd have some bearing on its strength I'm sure.

Now I'm waiting on the last of my supplies to come in before I start thinking about putting it all together and getting any cook time on the soil including the kashi blend I ordered from BAS to help get a good fungal network going. I've got my EM activating/expanding now as well as some bokashi coming.


----------



## raggyb (Apr 28, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> For anyone curious, I did a weight stress test on those Rubbermaid Brute Totes. I have the smaller one nested within the larger and the weight bearing portion of the setup is basically the plastic handles on the sides of the top tote.
> 
> For this test, I stacked a bunch of on-hand supplies into the tub and tried to spread the weight evenly (somewhat) but there was a focus in the dead middle as the supplies included a 5lb bucket of kelp meal with a big bag of ewc and ancient forest - all dead weight. I did one overnight and then added more weight so this was over the course of 2.5 to 3 days. The total weight once I measured and added things up came to 114.3 lb!!!
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing the results. Nice job.


----------



## Tstat (Apr 28, 2019)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Have you looked into probiotics to go with the SIPs? I'm trying to look out for a fellow Bodhi-head.


So, my plan is to buy 10 Growboxes next week. I’m going to mix up some Greentree Ultimate, coco, lime, lobster compost, verm, perlite, and maybe some Happy Frog. 

I do have some questions, of course. 
Grokashi... I’ve seen the videos and I guess I’ll use some on top. Speaking of tops, would the Earthgrow covers fit the Growbox? They are on sale right now for cheap.
Dry fertilizer trench- what fert (and how much) should I use? 
What else do I need?


----------



## MustangStudFarm (Apr 28, 2019)

Tstat said:


> So, my plan is to buy 10 Growboxes next week. I’m going to mix up some Greentree Ultimate, coco, lime, lobster compost, verm, perlite, and maybe some Happy Frog.
> 
> I do have some questions, of course.
> Grokashi... I’ve seen the videos and I guess I’ll use some on top. Speaking of tops, would the Earthgrow covers fit the Growbox? They are on sale right now for cheap.
> ...


The topdress would be compost and that would be after you get a mycelium mat started. I really wasn't impressed with dolomite lime because it would just cause K def, but you are using coco coir. Still, I would rather use azomite, greensand, basalt, or glacial rock dust because of the added micronutrients.
The dry fert trench was for an inert soil, but that is not the case here so a topdressing of compost is all that's needed. I'm not sure if the covers are interchangeable, but I'm sure that you can find the dimensions online.
The only other thing that you would need is the probiotics and you can do it DIY a lot cheaper than buying everything. I started by buying EM1 and Grokashi, but I am making my own Grokashi now and it's easy. Finding the Wheat bran was the hardest part and that wasn't too bad, it was at a feed store for $14/25gal.
The guy to listen to is Hyroot, he is the one that got me into this and things have been looking up since I started. The same soil that I was having trouble with in 8gal square pots are doing amazing in the Earthbox. Hyroot just isn't on here that often. You should check out his thread in the organic section...


----------



## 1shaggyDude (Apr 28, 2019)

Hey guys, i'm new to the sip gardening but have read this thread and quite a few others to get as much info as possible before getting my hands dirty. I am not at all new to growing, but all my experience is from outdoors. After losing the battle vs fusarium at our new house the last two years i am forced to take the show indoors for the 1st time.
My setup to start off consists of...
3x3 vivosun tent
6 inch a/c infinity cloudline t6
Sunsystems 315w lec
2 earthboxes 
Soil is big rootz with some ewc and a little added perlite.
So i set everything up 9 days ago just like good ol' Al taught me on youtube with gro-kashi on top and em1 in the rez. Saw the mycellium start to take off in about 2 days. Put the showercap back on and when i went to check a couple days later it was all gone except for a little at the edges. Tried google but there isn't much info there about the mat not growing. 
Do any of you experienced sippers have any ideas what would cause the mycellium to basically disappear in just a couple days?
I sprinkled on about a half cup more kashi yesterday hoping for the best and am waiting for results. Just hoping to figure out how i screwed the pooch on this so i don't do it again. 
Temps have stayed between 70-83 and rh 45-70 the whole time. Thanks in advance for any info.


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## MustangStudFarm (Apr 28, 2019)

1shaggyDude said:


> Saw the mycellium start to take off in about 2 days. Put the showercap back on and when i went to check a couple days later it was all gone except for a little at the edges. Tried google but there isn't much info there about the mat not growing.


I noticed that the white fuzzy will disappear after a while. From what I understand, you are supposed to get the mycelium mat and then topdress with Compost or EWC. I chose Malibu because they used nettle, borage, and some other plants that have micronutrients. I was impressed after I looked into Malibu, I ignored it for years.


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## 1shaggyDude (Apr 29, 2019)

I have the Malibu on standby. The way i understood it i need the mycellium to really get going like in your pic before applying any. Do you think i should just pop in a couple girls and give 'em a malibu top dress now or wait untill i can really get the fuzzy mat going?
Nice stang by the way..i've got a couple foxes myself.


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## NewGrower2011 (Apr 29, 2019)

Question on getting this mat going first angle - can the cap/cover be lying on the surface or must it be elevated with its own air-gap between it & the soil? Recommended min/max gap?


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## MustangStudFarm (Apr 30, 2019)

1shaggyDude said:


> I have the Malibu on standby. The way i understood it i need the mycellium to really get going like in your pic before applying any. Do you think i should just pop in a couple girls and give 'em a malibu top dress now or wait untill i can really get the fuzzy mat going?
> Nice stang by the way..i've got a couple foxes myself.


From what Alan Adkisson said, the mycelium is going to carry the nutrients to the roots. So, I think that it is important. I'm still kind of new to this, but I'm impressed with my results so far. I feel like I need a serious screen/SCRoG for these. I get a much bigger plant out of the container and it needs support. I have a floppy strain to begin with though.

I'm still making payments on my Fox. I saw it at a car lot and had to have it. It was having engine trouble, but the body was very nice. It also had an engine "Top end Kit" but the block/pistons were OEM. Someone dropped some major cash on cosmetics but fell way short in the mechanical area. There were several bugs that I had to work out that was tricky, like a burned ECM. The burned out ECM caused backfire and the previous owners sheared the woodruff key on the crankshaft, so the timing marks wouldn't line up with the valves. Shit had me feeling retarded for a while, had to think about what was going on. I'm in Oklahoma, so I found the "Street Outlaws" garage and they hooked me up. Not finished yet, but hopefully my new(12) earthboxes will help fund my engine/trans. Sorry, stoned rambling...


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## MustangStudFarm (Apr 30, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> Question on getting this mat going first angle - can the cap/cover be lying on the surface or must it be elevated with its own air-gap between it & the soil? Recommended min/max gap?


I don't know man, I just left enough room to be able to topdress later... It's an anaerobic bacteria, so I don't know if the air gap is important?


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## smokinokie (Apr 30, 2019)

@MustangStudFarm do you expand your em-1 as well as making grokashi? If so do you do it just like on the teraganix website? Thanks in advance. Having trouble with mine I think.


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## NewGrower2011 (Apr 30, 2019)

I've activated my EM before and followed their directions, all went well but if temp range is off it can go slowly. Got 2 gal activating right now myself.

I was wondering if you can sort of expand bokashi like the EM itself. Can you take some materials (i.e. the barley I plan to use in my soil mix in a week or so) and mix with some purchased bokashi and have it inoculate things that way?


----------



## smokinokie (Apr 30, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> I've activated my EM before and followed their directions, all went well but if temp range is off it can go slowly. Got 2 gal activating right now myself.
> 
> I was wondering if you can sort of expand bokashi like the EM itself. Can you take some materials (i.e. the barley I plan to use in my soil mix in a week or so) and mix with some purchased bokashi and have it inoculate things that way?


Thanks, hopefully mine will turn out ok then. Temps been kinda low.


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## MustangStudFarm (Apr 30, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> I've activated my EM before and followed their directions, all went well but if temp range is off it can go slowly. Got 2 gal activating right now myself.
> 
> I was wondering if you can sort of expand bokashi like the EM itself. Can you take some materials (i.e. the barley I plan to use in my soil mix in a week or so) and mix with some purchased bokashi and have it inoculate things that way?


With the EM1, you can only expand it one time from the bottle. Bokashi can be expanded endlessly. You want to save the barley and bokashi for a topdressing. I think that the barley is added after the mycelium mat is formed and before you add the compost topdressing. Does that make sense? The layer would the base soil/bokashi then wait like 5 days then add the barley then compost.
Hyroot started adding Photosynthesis Plus to his Grokashi recipe. It appears to have myco fungi along with other bacteria and fungi. It was very hard to find info about this product...
https://www.amazon.com/Microbe-Life-Photosynthesis-Plus-Quart/dp/B00BID0BOI


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Apr 30, 2019)

Anybody have one of these SIPs from costco?

https://www.costco.com/Self-watering-Elevated-Garden-Planter.product.100424059.html


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## NewGrower2011 (May 1, 2019)

I have that Photo Plus and man does it stink to holy hell. Sulfur based and those photo specific bacteria are what led me to use it in conjunction with others since it was truly redundant and did have something specific to offer (or at least as I currently understand things). Diversity can't hurt they say...

I have a bit of biochar left from prior soil mix prep and was thinking of charging it with all the different goodies on hand and how to work things in conjunction with all the recent purchases. One more order outstanding and then it's down to figuring out my re-amending plan/amounts of each and then allowing for any cook/prep time for the various inputs. And of course a final wait/cook time once all mixed.


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## NewGrower2011 (May 1, 2019)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> Anybody have one of these SIPs from costco?
> 
> https://www.costco.com/Self-watering-Elevated-Garden-Planter.product.100424059.html


Interesting amount of wicking surface area on their design comparing to others where you don't see as much material down in the rez.


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## Tstat (May 3, 2019)

So I was at Lowes today picking up some grass seed when I spotted this:






They are $20 and are called _*Patio Pickers*_. They seem like an Earthbox knock-off. I bought one just to try, so now I guess I need some Grokashi...


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## Chunky Stool (May 3, 2019)

Tstat said:


> So I was at Lowes today picking up some grass seed when I spotted this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We bought one of those for our deck! 
Never used anything like it. 
We will probably run a side-by-side comparison with a 10 gallon cloth pot. (tomatoes)


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## NewGrower2011 (May 4, 2019)

I saw those at Lowes myself, on sale even! I hesitated as I have these brute totes and wanted a bigger rez to minimize the topping-off frequency as that's a big part of my goal here. I was also aiming for my design to ensure you get a little air down in the rez which I believe if I'm not mistaken I had seen in some other design that their pvc pipes were both for filling the rez as well as leetting some air movement to get down under the roots and promote o2 availability in root zone.


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## NewGrower2011 (May 4, 2019)

So when trying to get that initial mat growing with some bokashi, would it be helpful to put the pots over seedling heat mats? I have a pair that covers the entire 4x4 floor with temp probes for each so easy option if it's wise to do so. Right now things are sitting in the same original 7 gal smart pots so I'll be reamending in them for some cook time before I prepare the new totes for an attempt on the SIP run. I'm trying to figure out my amendment amounts/ratios based on the test results after last run and otherwise went ahead with getting the bokashi going a little ahead of the actual amendments.


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## natureboygrower (May 4, 2019)

Just moved two earthboxes up into my flower cab,and the growth is absolutely insane.Huge in the one week since 12/12,two weeks since transplant.I did zero research,made up a modified coots mix and away I (the plants) went.I will say I've got a few leaves looking funky,but Ima roll with it.Any of you guys use bubble stones in your reservoir? My roots are for sure gonna grow into the water.


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## natureboygrower (May 4, 2019)

Badawgs Gooey13

Gooey13 on left,Bodhi Strawberry Sunshine on right
 
Funky leaves


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## Tstat (May 4, 2019)

I need some lime to add to my mix, so I’m gonna grab another Lowe’s SIP, too. I’d like to get 4 plants in the SIPs ASAP. I just ordered Gro-Kashi from BAS, so my question is- should I wait for it to get here before planting, or can I plant and then add it later? I’ve got lobster compost for the top and some dry bloom fert for a trench. 
I’m going to research this, but I figured I’d ask.


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## Tstat (May 4, 2019)

My soil mix is ready:





My SIPs are good to grow:





My Sunshine Daydreams are just about ready to come out. That will be the last of the hydro!


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## Tstat (May 5, 2019)

I ordered some of this, since I don’t know how long BAS will take to ship to me.
https://www.amazon.com/TeraGanix-Bokashi-EM-1


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## NewGrower2011 (May 6, 2019)

I just used some of the that myself -and- I have a bag of BAS's Kashi Blend (specifically their blend) - I put a tiny amount of the BAS version on a solo cup plant and within a couple days a very thick white mat appeared. I'm only a couple days in on the Teraganix use on top of my 7 gal pots and it seems far less aggressive but need to give it a couple more days to be a fair comparison. I know the BAS version has their myco innoculant and other goodies in there and I'm guessing it will prove to be the better product (though more expensive).


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## Tstat (May 6, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> I just used some of the that myself -and- I have a bag of BAS's Kashi Blend (specifically their blend) - I put a tiny amount of the BAS version on a solo cup plant and within a couple days a very thick white mat appeared. I'm only a couple days in on the Teraganix use on top of my 7 gal pots and it seems far less aggressive but need to give it a couple more days to be a fair comparison. I know the BAS version has their myco innoculant and other goodies in there and I'm guessing it will prove to be the better product (though more expensive).


Cool, man- thanks for that. I will have the Tera product here by Thursday, and I don't know when the BAS stuff will get here. I'm going to get my SIPs ready this week and as soon as I get my kashi, it's off to the races! 

Should I wait to get the kashi going before I put the plants in the SIP? Does it matter?


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## NewGrower2011 (May 6, 2019)

Having never used kashi before I'm also experimenting a tad as well. I threw some kashi (the teraganix) on the soil since it was just sitting there waiting to be re-amended in my case. Mixed 1 cup of kashi with 1 cup of biochar, 1 cup of ancient forest and 1 cup of ewc to get that little brew going. I checked today and a nice white fuzz mat was definitely forming so it was working for sure. 

Also to not just have idle time wasted I went ahead with amending today but not really mixing things as well as I plan to; almost like a no-till top-dress but I'm not stuck on the no-till aspect - I'll be mixing things better in tubs before I use this soil. I just wanted to get things breaking down and 'cooking' a bit since I'm in between things and have already pissed away a couple weeks figuring out my game plan then waiting on my orders. 

I had mixed all my inputs/amendments into portioned zip-loc bags and had thrown more of the kashi in with them as I thought why the hell not - they'd be sitting bagged for 5-6 more days if I had held off. But since I went ahead and amended today it's all together now including some of the BAS kashi blend. The BAS stuff definitely smells quite different/stronger than the Teraganix stuff but it has more ingredients going than the later.


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## Lightgreen2k (May 8, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Final LST on my mainline plants,, jack herer and space kitties in a GrowBox SipView attachment 4082279


You have come a long way.

Page 65 from when I was active in the thread.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/sip-thread-sub-irrigated-planter.904886/page-65#post-14043790

Nice work.


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## Lightgreen2k (May 8, 2019)

The Sip Master is back. The one that gave all the ideas you all are doing now From early in the thread.

The person that Originally Added worms. Sipman Sipman yeah that's me.


 

This has to my 10th cycle coming up. I have been running this same sip for some time.

Since Nov, 2017 I have not swapped out any BioTerra and just made minor adjustments.

I'll take some updated photos of what is about to be in this new run.


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## Tstat (May 8, 2019)

SO, my GroKashi came today! BAS does not mess around. It got to me within days of ordering. So, here we go:





How long before I should start seeing growth? I plan on dropping the plants in at that time and top dressing with some lobster compost. So exciting!!


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## Chunky Stool (May 8, 2019)

Anyone running SIP w/synthetics?


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## Lightgreen2k (May 8, 2019)

Sips are easy once you have everything in tandem.


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## Chunky Stool (May 8, 2019)

Semi-organic is easy once you learn how to read your plants and give them what they want. 

I'm experimenting with a higher CEC soil-less medium and it's been interesting. Testing my patience for sure. 

Time to brew a batch of AACT. Got some fancy stuff for free at an organic orgy...


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## Lightgreen2k (May 9, 2019)

Chunky Stool said:


> Semi-organic is easy once you learn how to read your plants and give them what they want.
> 
> I'm experimenting with a higher CEC soil-less medium and it's been interesting. Testing my patience for sure.
> 
> Time to brew a batch of AACT. Got some fancy stuff for free at an organic orgy...





Chunky Stool said:


> Anyone running SIP w/synthetics?


I have not really seen anyone run it with synthetics although I'm sure you could. 

The plants are feed from the bottom up, so wherever you add your water source perhaps. 

..........

I also agree that you have to be able to read your plants, moresoe less is more in the adding of your soil/soiless mix.


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## Tstat (May 9, 2019)

I’d really like to get my plants in my 2 SIPs ASAP. I added the Gro Kashi yesterday. Now, do I need to wait for it to colonize before adding compost, and more importantly, the plants?

Basically, can I plant the plants now? If I do, do I need to wait for the Gro Kashi to do its thing before adding compost to the top? Or, wait to plant?


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## Lightgreen2k (May 9, 2019)

Tstat said:


> I’d really like to get my plants in my 2 SIPs ASAP. I added the Gro Kashi yesterday. Now, do I need to wait for it to colonize before adding compost, and more importantly, the plants?
> 
> Basically, can I plant the plants now? If I do, do I need to wait for the Gro Kashi to do its thing before adding compost to the top? Or, wait to plant?


I would add my plants in now at let it colonize around the plants.


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## Lightgreen2k (May 9, 2019)

Left Side

Orange Fruitty Pebbles Og(back)
Dank Vadar(middle)
Tre Og (front)

Dank Vadar


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## Tstat (May 9, 2019)

Lightgreen2k said:


> I would add my plants in now at let it colonize around the plants.


Thank you. I’ve seen conflicting info about this. I’m adding them today!


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## Tstat (May 9, 2019)

My plants are in my first ever SIPs! I planted 2 SSDDs and 2 Space Monkeys (both Bodhi clones). They looked a little sad at first and one kinda wilted over, but they are all looking better a few hours later. They were way too pot bound in the one gallon pots. In the future I’m going to drop them in a lot earlier.

My plan is to keep an eye on mycelium growth and when it happens, I’ll add the compost.

The root balls were pretty much all the way down to the bottom of the container, but I guess the roots will grow out and then into the water res?

I’m nervous about this, but very excited for a new grow method...


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## Lightgreen2k (May 9, 2019)

Tstat said:


> My plants are in my first ever SIPs! I planted 2 SSDDs and 2 Space Monkeys (both Bodhi clones). They looked a little sad at first and one kinda wilted over, but they are all looking better a few hours later. They were way too pot bound in the one gallon pots. In the future I’m going to drop them in a lot earlier.
> 
> My plan is to keep an eye on mycelium growth and when it happens, I’ll add the compost.
> 
> ...


Go for it, it's hard to go back after this method.


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## Tstat (May 10, 2019)

So, I was going to create a new thread to document my switch to SIPs and organics in general, but instead I think I'll just post here. Maybe revive this thread a little.

So, to start, I have a couple of decades of hydro under my belt. My last one was a RDWC system based on Current Culture Under Current. Got sick of the maintenance, etc. and was convinced to try SIPs. So here we go!

I started my organic switchover with 4 plants in 10 gallon pots, while I waited to start the SIPs. They are Goji OG, Apollo 11, and a Purple Unicorn/Pure OG cross. I am still vegging them under the screen:





I will flip over to 12/12 in a week or so. I am looking to stagger my SIPs in (The light system expands. Right now I'm only running about 600 watts of cobs/boards). So, with that in mind, here are the SIPs that were planted yesterday. They are Space Monkey and Sunshine Daydream (SSDD). I will elaborate on my soil mix, etc. next post:





I had some yellowing, and they were really pot bound in the 1 gallon pots. Incredibly, they look WAY better today then when I transplanted them.

Finally, here are a bunch of girls (and some from seed that may be boys) that will populate the flowering room in the coming weeks:





They are mostly Bodhi and Useful.
SSDD, A11, Space Monkey, Mothers Milk, Lemon Lotus, Love Triangle, Bag Of Oranges, Critical Kush.

So, there you have it. If anyone objects to posting this here, please let me know and I'll take it to a new thread. Thanks to @Tim Fox , @Humanrob , @hyroot , @natureboygrower , @Lightgreen2k , and everyone else how helped me and are involved in this thread!


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## Tim Fox (May 10, 2019)

Tstat said:


> So, I was going to create a new thread to document my switch to SIPs and organics in general, but instead I think I'll just post here. Maybe revive this thread a little.
> 
> So, to start, I have a couple of decades of hydro under my belt. My last one was a RDWC system based on Current Culture Under Current. Got sick of the maintenance, etc. and was convinced to try SIPs. So here we go!
> 
> ...


right on man, such good looking plants, you are really going to enjoy the ease of the switch from hydro to sips,, what are you going to do with all your free time hahah


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## Tstat (May 10, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> right on man, such good looking plants, you are really going to enjoy the ease of the switch from hydro to sips,, what are you going to do with all your free time hahah


Hmm.. read more books, watch porn? I know, "Plant More Seeds!"


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## Tstat (May 10, 2019)

So, it's wicking nicely! The top is a bit moist, and I just added 2 gallons to the reservoirs that were full yesterday


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## Tim Fox (May 10, 2019)

Tstat said:


> So, it's wicking nicely! The top is a bit moist, and I just added 2 gallons to the reservoirs that were full yesterday


Wait till they get big they will drink gallons per day


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## Lightgreen2k (May 11, 2019)

@Tim Fox

Comment is correct, they will take off nicely.

I myself have to do some super cropping for this crop.


One side of the Sip.

Off the ground/Bed they should finish at 32 height and the auxiliary branches extending at 14. I have about 4 nodes


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## raggyb (May 11, 2019)

Tstat said:


> If anyone objects to posting this here, please let me know and I'll take it to a new thread. Thanks to @Tim Fox , @Humanrob , @hyroot , @natureboygrower , @Lightgreen2k , and everyone else how helped me and are involved in this thread!


Shit no, post it here!


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## raggyb (May 11, 2019)

Lightgreen2k said:


> @Tim Fox
> 
> Comment is correct, they will take off nicely.
> 
> ...


speaking of super cropping, my top stems seem too crisp for it. I snapped a few as soon as I started bending. Ever encounter that?


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## raggyb (May 11, 2019)

raggyb said:


> Made a few different home made Sips. Some working better than others but no logic to it yet. Here a sort of side by side. These 2 were born at the same time and grew in Solos. The left was just a little bigger at the time and I put it in the SIP. The right I put in a 1 gal fabric pot. Left was a little further from light actually. It probably had a 30 day head start in the SIP. Then I put the right in a SIP, about 7 days ago. Here they are
> 
> View attachment 4313862 View attachment 4313865 View attachment 4313866
> 
> It's not perfect comparison because they only 1/4 the same genetics and the big could be male and the small female, and so on. It's funny because the big one started getting huge even at first when I hardly put any water in and the wick wasn't working meaning the level wasn't moving and the air gap was like 9 inches and I was only top watering so I don't know why it took off but it did.


Following up, it turned out the bigger one that went in the SIP sooner was a male and the later one a female, so this was probably a meaningless side by side. Oh well.


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## Chunky Stool (May 11, 2019)

raggyb said:


> speaking of super cropping, my top stems seem too crisp for it. I snapped a few as soon as I started bending. Ever encounter that?


Yep. 
But on the bright side, I've let plants keep going with a half severed stem and they managed just fine. The cola may not have ended up as big as normal but the plant didn't stress over it like removing the top completely. 
Hell I've even had big "knuckles" grow back that were hollow and I could see through them! 
They eventually filled in and the plants finished fine.


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## raggyb (May 12, 2019)

Chunky Stool said:


> Yep.
> But on the bright side, I've let plants keep going with a half severed stem and they managed just fine. The cola may not have ended up as big as normal but the plant didn't stress over it like removing the top completely.
> Hell I've even had big "knuckles" grow back that were hollow and I could see through them!
> They eventually filled in and the plants finished fine.


cool! I just did a few super crops and managed not to completely destroy them. Plant got too tall.


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## Tstat (May 14, 2019)

Yesterday I took a look under the cover and the Grokashi really took off. White mycelium everywhere! I added a nice layer of lobster compost and filled up the reservoir again. I also picked up a couple of funnels for easier filling.


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## Lightgreen2k (May 14, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Yesterday I took a look under the cover and the Grokashi really took off. White mycelium everywhere! I added a nice layer of lobster compost and filled up the reservoir again. I also picked up a couple of funnels for easier filling.


Always remember less is more in these systems. It's easy to over do it.


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## Tstat (May 14, 2019)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Always remember less is more in these systems. It's easy to over do it.


Yea, man- that's why I want to document what I am doing. It gives me a chance to look back and also get suggestions from you guys who are already dialed in.


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## smokinokie (May 15, 2019)

Chem91 x choc d. From the day she went into sip to 4 days later. So I'm a 4 day believer.


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## NewGrower2011 (May 20, 2019)

Has anyone tried to make a giant flood/drain with a monster smart pot and super soil/organics rather than counting on the wicking nature of a SIP? One thing that seemed like it might be better at is that when the drain happens it'd be sucking air into the root space where in wicking that wouldn't occur.

I keep debating on the wick size/material/mounting options/etc and have previously used f/d setup with rubbermaid dishwasher totes and those good botanicare fittings (not the cheapo ones!). As I nested those tubs together and with the amount of rez space/height I started second guessing the wicking and thought well hell if a big 15 gal smart pot could sit in here.... well.... get the same effect plus the suction effect and rig it as a big ass f/d with a single monster pot within.

Wondering if any of the SIP crowd had tried that previously and ruled it out favoring the passive nature/benefits and just counting on wicking...


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## natureboygrower (Jun 1, 2019)

Loving my 15gallon earthboxes.I have one bodhi Lucky Wookie in one(this plant alone could have filled my space) and a baddawg gooey13 and bodhi stawberry sunshine sharing the other box.No signs of any deficiencies just past week 5.Its a damn jungle in my space,i will be more mindful of this on my next run


Gooey13


@Tstat how's your first run going?


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## Tim Fox (Jun 1, 2019)

natureboygrower said:


> Loving my 15gallon earthboxes.I have one bodhi Lucky Wookie in one(this plant alone could have filled my space) and a baddawg gooey13 and bodhi stawberry sunshine sharing the other box.No signs of any deficiencies just past week 5.Its a damn jungle in my space,i will be more mindful of this on my next run
> View attachment 4343339
> 
> Gooey13
> ...


Sips grow huge plants


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## natureboygrower (Jun 1, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Sips grow huge plants


Unbelievable how fast plants grow using this method.I really dont see myself changing directions now that I'm onto sips.So easy,I top off every morning right before lights out and have zero worries about overwatering or watering when not needed.When I first put my plants into the boxes,one or two got a few weird leaves.I think it was from the soil being a little too wet for their roots,but the sips immediately corrected that.I also noticed a smell coming from my reservoir which completely disappeared after a few res top offs.Next run Ima focus more on an even canopy,more effecient use of space.


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## Tim Fox (Jun 1, 2019)

natureboygrower said:


> Unbelievable how fast plants grow using this method.I really dont see myself changing directions now that I'm onto sips.So easy,I top off every morning right before lights out and have zero worries about overwatering or watering when not needed.When I first put my plants into the boxes,one or two got a few weird leaves.I think it was from the soil being a little too wet for their roots,but the sips immediately corrected that.I also noticed a smell coming from my reservoir which completely disappeared after a few res top offs.Next run Ima focus more on an even canopy,more effecient use of space.


oh yes growing in sips is a "cake walk" hydroponic type growth, without the hydro work hahah


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## Tstat (Jun 1, 2019)

natureboygrower said:


> @Tstat how's your first run going?


I was just thinking that I needed to come on here and show you guys what I'm doing, lol. I'll take pics later, but I do have 6 going right now and I just bought 5 more! Three of those will be for veggies and herbs on the deck and the other 2 are heading down for another round. So far so good, I'll post more later this weekend 

OK, so here are some pics!

This is 4 SIPs, they are SSDD, Space Monkey, and a Lemon Lotus. Been in the flowering room about a week:





These are the other two, they are in the veg room for now. I just transplanted them into the SIPs yesterday. One is a bit yellow, but will certainly look awesome in a day or two:





These are the 4 I planted first in 10 gallon pots. Once they are out I am going to be rotating 8 SIPs in and out every few weeks!


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## smokinokie (Jun 1, 2019)

I know what ya mean about huge plants and fast growth, she's takin over.


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## Lightgreen2k (Jun 2, 2019)

Mycelium Web


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## Tstat (Jun 2, 2019)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Mycelium Web
> 
> View attachment 4344094 View attachment 4344095


Crazy how fast that GroKashi takes over!


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## Lightgreen2k (Jun 2, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Crazy how fast that GroKashi takes over!


Mine is too thick I Doug up about 2 inches. When I water it spreads across persay. So less is more with the Kashi.


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## Lightgreen2k (Jun 2, 2019)

I had a bunch of worms try to come to the top of the bed. This is just a few.


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Jun 8, 2019)

Anyone running The Soil King Big Rootz? If so how much aeration did you add (percentage or parts wise)? I am planning to use GrowStone GS-2 for the aerator in addition to the pumice and perlite already in it. Hopefully the grow stones dont mess with my PH like I have read about in Hydro reviews.


Thanks


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Jun 9, 2019)

Inntainer instructions say 6 to 1. Should have checked


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## Tstat (Jun 10, 2019)

Wow, man. So far I am blown away by this method. Been gone a few days and everything has exploded.
Here are the veggies:





And meanwhile, inside...





I gotta get in there tomorrow and do some trimming!


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## Tim Fox (Jun 11, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Wow, man. So far I am blown away by this method. Been gone a few days and everything has exploded.
> Here are the veggies:
> 
> 
> ...


Sips rock


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## Tstat (Jun 23, 2019)

Just figured I'd drop a Sunday Funday update! Here are the outside plants. One Bag Of Oranges has joined the veggies:





And...here are the indoor girls. About 3 weeks in and just blowing up:





And finally, these 4 girls will go in soon. I am close to harvest on the four potted plants.






And just a reminder, I came from the deep hydro side of things. I was very skeptical of growing with this method. But if you are thinking of doing it, I'd say they work tremendously. Growth is fast and lush, and the smell is greater than with hydro. I'm looking forward to the finished product


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## JDMase (Jun 23, 2019)

Im subbed!
@Tstat are you making any amendments or is it just plain water and plain sailing for you? 

Multi-strain grows with no maintenance sound so good..


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## Chunky Stool (Jun 23, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Just figured I'd drop a Sunday Funday update! Here are the outside plants. One Bag Of Oranges has joined the veggies:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sweet! 
Are those SIPs from Lowes? 
I've got one and need to set it up...


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## Tstat (Jun 23, 2019)

JDMase said:


> Im subbed!
> @Tstat are you making any amendments or is it just plain water and plain sailing for you?
> 
> Multi-strain grows with no maintenance sound so good..


So, I start with Greentree Ultimate potting mix. It’s a nice mix that I get locally. It has everything in it to grow from start to finish., according to the grow store guys. I add some Happy Frog, perlite, bone meal, and lime. I mix it all up good and then add two plants per sip. I then sprinkle GroKashi on top. After a couple of days the GroKashi spreads out and I add a layer of lobster compost on top.

That’s it. I just add water. But keep in mind, I haven’t gone the distance with these yet.



Chunky Stool said:


> Sweet!
> Are those SIPs from Lowes?
> I've got one and need to set it up...


Yep, I have 12 of them now!


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## Lightgreen2k (Jun 29, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Just figured I'd drop a Sunday Funday update! Here are the outside plants. One Bag Of Oranges has joined the veggies:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your garden really took off.


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## Tstat (Jul 2, 2019)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Your garden really took off.


Yes it did. I’m away for 10 days and my son is watering. I have a feeling things will out of control when I get back next week!


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## JDMase (Jul 5, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Yes it did. I’m away for 10 days and my son is watering. I have a feeling things will out of control when I get back next week!


Pics or it didn't happen! Enjoy your 10 days away


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## Tstat (Jul 15, 2019)

Oh, it happened. What a freaken mess!


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## Axion42 (Jul 15, 2019)

On a typical 5gallon sip setup, how often do you have to refill the water res?


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## Tstat (Jul 16, 2019)

Axion42 said:


> On a typical 5gallon sip setup, how often do you have to refill the water res?


Mine are 2.5 and they need water every other day, at least.


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## Deadhead13 (Jul 16, 2019)

Great thread. I love this method in the garden and I’m making several SIPs. I’ve bought an earth box too and plan on using this more.


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## Tstat (Jul 16, 2019)

Deadhead13 said:


> Great thread. I love this method in the garden and I’m making several SIPs. I’ve bought an earth box too and plan on using this more.


Nice avatar!


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## Deadhead13 (Jul 16, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Nice avatar!


Thanks, I’ve got a couple that I rotate. That is some more great music that I’ve been into for 25 plus years. I’ve been looking for this thread forever. Great info here.


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## Tim Fox (Jul 16, 2019)

Deadhead13 said:


> Great thread. I love this method in the garden and I’m making several SIPs. I’ve bought an earth box too and plan on using this more.


Love my earthbox I ha have some tomatoes growing in my sips this summer


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## Tim Fox (Jul 16, 2019)

Axion42 said:


> On a typical 5gallon sip setup, how often do you have to refill the water res?


Full size plants can drink 1 galloon per day easy , I can leave mine for a long weekend ok ,


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## Deadhead13 (Jul 16, 2019)

I’ve got a pepper going in a 5 gal bucket SIP and trying to get a watermelon started in the EB. I think the EB would be great for an inside grow.


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## natureboygrower (Jul 16, 2019)

Deadhead13 said:


> I think the EB would be great for an inside grow.


They are.I just started my second sips grow using eb.The first grow I had two plants sharing a 15gal,and one all alone in a 15g(which got massive).SIPS is it for me.No more nutes no more phing,no more headaches! I topped off every morni g(before lights out) with 1/2g of h20.So easy.
KISS


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## Deadhead13 (Jul 16, 2019)

natureboygrower said:


> They are.I just started my second sips grow using eb.The first grow I had two plants sharing a 15gal,and one all alone in a 15g(which got massive).SIPS is it for me.No more nutes no more phing,no more headaches! I topped off every morni g(before lights out) with 1/2g of h20.So easy.
> KISS


Plus 1. I wonder how many would work in a SOG type grow with an EB? 3 getting a ft or so tall? Just speculating. I’m still digging thru this thread.


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## natureboygrower (Jul 16, 2019)

Deadhead13 said:


> Plus 1. I wonder how many would work in a SOG type grow with an EB? 3 getting a ft or so tall? Just speculating. I’m still digging thru this thread.


Depending on strain,you probably could go 3 per.I have a very small space(just fit 2 earthboxes) 5ftL×4ftH×20" wide .I had one Bodhi Lucky Wookie in its own EB that probably could have filled up my whole cab.So if you kept them short,and they were noted for being compact,you could have a really nice 3 plant SOG.


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## Tim Fox (Jul 18, 2019)

natureboygrower said:


> They are.I just started my second sips grow using eb.The first grow I had two plants sharing a 15gal,and one all alone in a 15g(which got massive).SIPS is it for me.No more nutes no more phing,no more headaches! I topped off every morni g(before lights out) with 1/2g of h20.So easy.
> KISS


Yup that right there, I gravitate towards easy


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## Deadhead13 (Jul 18, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Yup that right there, I gravitate towards easy


The ones that I have peppers and melons in are super easy to maintain. I think they would make an awsome outdoor or indoor system for erb.


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## Tim Fox (Jul 19, 2019)

Deadhead13 said:


> The ones that I have peppers and melons in are super easy to maintain. I think they would make an awsome outdoor or indoor system for erb.


I ran several earthbox grows through my grow can earlier in this thread they do amazing indoors


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## Chunky Stool (Jul 21, 2019)

@Tstat did you follow the directions on those SIPs from Lowes? 
It recommended synthetic ferts with inert medium.


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## NewGrower2011 (Jul 21, 2019)

Sharing my first SIP build; I had already identified these RubberMaid brute totes and was considering them for rez's as they're the thickets/strongest I've been able to find locally - though these are still pretty hard to find as some Lowes have them, some do not. They do have food-grade white as well and if not mistaken though grey these are food safe as well. In another thread somewhere here I discussed the dimensions and how I stress tested the use of the nesting and if it could handle the weight.

First, my wick parts: A simple toilet flange and an 'atrium' foot for drainage. These both accommodate either 3" or 4" pipe which means it works fine with corrugated drainage pipe. I packed the bottom half with coco - hopefully not a bad decision. I used some cheese-cloth to help keep everything in the 'atrium' footer deal. The rest of the wick is then the actual soil/media I'm loading.

 

The tubs were drilled so that the flange hole was just small enough to be snug and smaller than the drain pipe; This allows the drain pipe to provide a little bit of spring/support to the base of the top/nested tub if you cut your lengths correctly. I didn't get perfect on them all but those that were long enough I could tell it gave some extra support.

 

I used some pipe foam to build a set of 'shoulder pads' that would fit the tubs; Here shown on the top/nested tubs but actually used on the bottom reservoir tub to help get a more air tight seal where the tubs are nesting
.
  

Before I had 2 heat mats for the 4x4 area to help with nighttime temps so I kept those in place, but I'm not currently using them as I don't want to add heat/funk to the reservoirs which did get a good activated EM drink and I'm running without air-stones. I'm not running with a 'shower cap' on these at this time but I suspect humidity challenge may come in flowering. They do dry out a good bit at top but the middle to lower levels are good & moist but I've been top-feeding at first with transplanting. As I wasn't prepared initially I'm actually dropping 2gal smart pots into the tubs and surrounding with my well cooked refreshed soil with a few new goodies added/etc. I think it's wicking but they're not drinking enough to really measure any drop as I've been top-feeding as well. Time will tell...

In the past, lazy watering is what I suspect held me back; And possibly night-time temps. I'm hoping with these SIPs I can alleviate at least one of those shortcomings and make life easier in the process. Also being elevated up off the floor and air-gapped is likely going to help root zone temps especially at night I'm hoping. I'd rather not run those mats and heat the rez; If I need heat I'd almost rather get those in-ground heating cables you can get for gardens but I'd need such a tiny run/loop I doubt it comes that small.

I'd have to find my math notes but I can easily have multi-gallon capacity; I think I figured it was just shy of 7 gal to floor of the top tote so leaving a 2" air gap I still had around the 5 gal range iirc. Either way far more than those EB and other commercial offerings which is a primary reason I didn't grab some of those other brand ones from Lowes when they were just $20 a pop. These brute totes cost more than that - each...

So this is basically a 'tool-less' install once the parts are made; it can be broken down, cleaned, re-assembled easily. I only used zip ties to keep the atrium foot deal in the corrugated pipe - the toilet flanges basically made a good connection the way they went together it held the pipe to the tub nicely and routed any dirt down into the wick/pipe rather than falling out. Those flanges are like $3 something a pop but worth it imo.


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## Deadhead13 (Jul 21, 2019)

@NewGrower2011, if you do a journal or thread let us know. That looks well done.


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## NewGrower2011 (Jul 22, 2019)

I would -- but I live in a red state; End of the show once plants go in.  

Yes, my state is going to be surrounded by legal states. The 'asshole' neighbor state the others don't want to drive through anymore. The donut hole of ignorance and intolerance. Our leadership has clearly state 'not until the feds change' so we're fucked here unless we can get these old fucks out of office and bring in some modern thinking.


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## NewGrower2011 (Jul 22, 2019)

I will say that with 2 weeks in, they have grown considerably and flower sites are popping nicely. I should have gave them a little longer of veg post-transplant to be honest but I basically flipped 1 week after going into these new sips. If I had gave them more time I'm sure my root system would be better. As I was using what was on hand already I'm using 2 per SIP and they're already crowding a bit. 1 per is likely the best bet and a screen on top to help spread things out. As these sit they'd be perfect for 1/2/3 per which for me is a plant count consideration (even if legal, a consideration). But someone who wanted to do a SOG in these for instance could easily do 12 or maybe 16 in that 4x4 space easily. I'd think 12 would produce nicely. But being a red state I always want to aim for the most effective while lowest plant count. Next time I plan to run 1 per and have a much longer veg time.


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## Deadhead13 (Jul 22, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> I would -- but I live in a red state; End of the show once plants go in.
> 
> Yes, my state is going to be surrounded by legal states. The 'asshole' neighbor state the others don't want to drive through anymore. The donut hole of ignorance and intolerance. Our leadership has clearly state 'not until the feds change' so we're fucked here unless we can get these old fucks out of office and bring in some modern thinking.


I’m in the same shape and completely agree. It sounds like you are off and running well with these SIPs. I’m making another one from a 5gal bucket and 1 from an 18gal tote at the moment.


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## Tstat (Jul 22, 2019)

Chunky Stool said:


> @Tstat did you follow the directions on those SIPs from Lowes?
> It recommended synthetic ferts with inert medium.


Nope, I used a supersoil mix and additives.

So, I just harvested my first SIP. It was SSDD (2) and I got 5 OZs. Now, that's "OK" I guess, but here is what happened...

I went away for 2 weeks to work on my FLA home. When I left it was in the 70's here in NE. The temps jumped up over 90 here for pretty much the entire time I was gone. I had my son watering the SIPs, but he doesn't know much about growing. Anyway, temps rose, I had a fan malfunction. My plants were vegged too long to begin with and were unruly as hell, even before I left.

I came back to PM, mites, flopped over branches, and more. It was a near disaster and some of the other SIPs did not fare well. I had way too many unruly plants in the room and it just exasperated the heat issues.

The one thing I notice is the floppy branches. Now I don't know it is due to the described issues I had or something else. I am cutting way back on how much I cram into that space. I leave again for Lockn' at the end of next month and then back to Florida, so I need to simplify and reduce the watering, etc. the kid has to do.


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## NewGrower2011 (Jul 22, 2019)

One of the additives in the NFTG line there's a video where they discuss how some growers that were facing massive wind issues a year or so ago were using one of their items due to the insane branch hardening that occurred. They were laughing about don't apply this stuff if you're trying to train into a net/screen. I was trying to remember which one that was and get a dose going since I didn't build a screen this time around. I think it's the one that has the lignin in it as another calcium source. That might help with the floppy branches perhaps... Even though plenty should be in the soil perhaps foliar feeding the silica could also do the same. My last foliar included a dash for the hell of it...


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## Tstat (Jul 23, 2019)

Is there an easy and cheap way to automate watering for 4-8 SIPs?


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## Tstat (Jul 23, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> One of the additives in the NFTG line there's a video where they discuss how some growers that were facing massive wind issues a year or so ago were using one of their items due to the insane branch hardening that occurred. They were laughing about don't apply this stuff if you're trying to train into a net/screen. I was trying to remember which one that was and get a dose going since I didn't build a screen this time around. I think it's the one that has the lignin in it as another calcium source. That might help with the floppy branches perhaps... Even though plenty should be in the soil perhaps foliar feeding the silica could also do the same. My last foliar included a dash for the hell of it...


Maybe this?

https://growershouse.com/nectar-for-the-gods-the-kraken


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## natureboygrower (Jul 23, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Nope, I used a supersoil mix and additives.
> 
> So, I just harvested my first SIP. It was SSDD (2) and I got 5 OZs. Now, that's "OK" I guess, but here is what happened...
> 
> ...


I do very minimal defoliation on my plants(it seems so unnatural to me) After reading this post at work,once I got home,I stripped all my lowers/leaves(10 days into 12/12)Humidity has been an absolute bitch in the Northeast.Ive never seen my flower cab so humid in 2 years of indoor growing.Sorry to hear about all your troubles.Better luck next run,Cap.


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## Tstat (Jul 23, 2019)

natureboygrower said:


> Humidity has been an absolute bitch in the Northeast.


Yea, no shit! I am hoping maybe that means a less humid fall for the outdoor stuff  
I also lost about 5 ounces of shrooms during my time away


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## natureboygrower (Jul 23, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Yea, no shit! I am hoping maybe that means a less humid fall for the outdoor stuff
> I also lost about 5 ounces of shrooms during my time away


Man,I just cleaned out my veg cab and put some outside.First time in 2 years Ive even bothered.Shitty New England weather is what moved me indoors.I dont have high hopes for any of it,but I had a nice baddawg male freebie Im going to try and pollinate some plants with.

Double whammy with the shrooms! Bummer I've been contemplating starting some this winter, What are the temps needed to grow?


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## Tstat (Jul 23, 2019)

natureboygrower said:


> What are the temps needed to grow?


70 and above seems to do the trick. It was my Lockn Festival batch, too! I started more, but it's going to be close as to whether they finish in time...


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## Tstat (Jul 31, 2019)

So, I have this photo of the last of the "mess":





I am not looking forward to trimming them.

I am going away again toward the end of the month, but this time I am way better prepared!:


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## NewGrower2011 (Aug 27, 2019)

So a little follow-up on my adventure into sipLand -

First regret - didn't build the screen and veg into it; They're swelling and flopping (as you'd hope for) and trying to retrofit a screen was going to result in me crowding things together just asking for a mold problem and reducing the light getting in and penetrating. Gonna scrog? Start with scrog...

Second regret - 4 containers in the 4x4 space is laid out with 2 in front, 2 in back. Getting to the 2 in back sucks once they're grown and all bushy. Either automate everything or have the containers on wheels and that means make sure they can stand on their one when moved about or are in a cage/screen or otherwise managed.

Third regret (sort of) - didn't use a 'shower cap' approach; Now I'm not sure this is really a regret quite yet. It worked to my advantage when I wanted to give them a little extra love and some NFTG goodies/photoPlus/recharge/mammoth/etc. Also some SLF-100 and one small dose of Hydrozyme along the way. The top-watering they say is bad because you're screwing with the hydrotropism which makes sense to me but ummmmm when it rains doesn't that do the same? So maybe don't rig up a top-feed drip on a regular basis but the occassional tea/top feed isn't going to wreck things it seems.

All in all it looks to be working very well; I think not having the right water availability really killed my prior runs (no automation, dried pots often in 7gals, ladies were probably thirsty more often than not). That and VPD in a winter run vs summer run - now I'm fretting over too much humidity in flower/drying where last run was opposite - go figure. Not a commercial op with a controlled environment here. 

So far my organic (kinda super) soil + SIP and a little NFTG here & there along with bennies/mykos and occasional teas seems to be doing the trick. The final weigh in will tell, but so far short of a major fuck up I'm hoping to exceed my personal best.


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## NewGrower2011 (Sep 3, 2019)

Questions for those who've done a full run in a SIP... How did you do the 'next run' in your SIP?

I'm trying to decide if I want to attempt a re-veg run or not. Never have tried that before, but being that I was a little short on veg time to get the roots massive before flipping I'm now wondering what a well established root system would do differently. I'm in no rush, time is not a factor this is all for personal use only so I've got my options without that constraint. 

If I were to re-veg I'd be getting the benefit of the established root system this time hopefully with roots dropping into rez already, but that is unconfirmed and can't disassemble to check without destroying the root system. Even with the short veg time they easily overgrew the space and are a bit crowded as-is on this run and next time I plan to have my screens (1 per tub/each tub mobile/self-standing) so I'll be vegging into them. 

I think the big decision comes down to the benfit of re-veg/established root system and how long it'll take to recover and deal with the stress/shock of the transition back versus just dropping some clones in (which they already have a good root system in 1 gal plastics) and doing a standard veg.

Is a re-veg worth it? Specifically for no-till/SIP type of run?


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## Deadhead13 (Sep 3, 2019)

If the plants are that big I would think the roots have reached the bottom. I’m not sure about the shock of re veg but I hear people talking of doing it often.


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## NewGrower2011 (Sep 3, 2019)

I think with time being a luxury I can afford my plans are to get some samples from each container, multiple locations and then draw my sample for a soil test. Then depending on what type of re-amending or adjustments I need to make, that will dictate if I do a re-veg. If it needs heavy adjustments or amendments I'd rather bust it all up and get a good thorough mix and let it cook again with some BAS Kashi blend again and a good tea maybe to kick start the fresh microherd. If not, a re-veg seems like a good experiment to run.


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## Hawg Wild (Sep 21, 2019)

Without trying to read through this entire thread, could some of you guys who are experienced with SIP please let me know the pros and/or cons of aerating the reservoir of an Earthbox? Also, has anyone run autoflowers in them?


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## NewGrower2011 (Sep 29, 2019)

So I'm a convert. This last run was good, best yield ever from same footprint/lights/fans. I used re-amended super soil, gave it occasional love from a tea, some NFTG here & there along with the bio's like EM-1/SLF-100/Photo+/MammothP. Had some recharge in that soil at one point early on, some Azos/Mycos initially. Basically tried to keep things wet & alive as in the past I was speculating my watering practices are what held me back.

So unfortunately more than 1 thing changed and can't attribute the best run yet to any specific, but the combination works. Living soil, super soil, mild organics added throughout the run and those biologicals all seemed to work great together.

Only bad thing I encountered was I did see 1 plant throw some spindly weird thing up out of a bud that I was thinking was male but looked like nothing I'd ever seen before but the tell tale signs were there. She did seed on me. Familiar genetics that had no issues before with my environment so I suspect stress seeds from a ph shift or a nute overload in one of my 'love potion' sessions. But the product is incredible, besting anything from before even with same genetics.


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## Deadhead13 (Sep 29, 2019)

I’ve had a great year with peppers in a 5 gal SIP, I’m sold as well.


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## NewGrower2011 (Sep 29, 2019)

basically take my last 2 runs... this one beat them combined weight. 

I really think not having water readily available was really the law of minimums kicking me in the nutz. I also boosted my micros this time with the 'big6' stuff from Build-A-Soil and was heavy on the Ca in the soil mix plus the NFTG entire line being Ca based is key I think. It's definitely taken the same clone I've ran three times now and made it like an entirely different plant.

If I don't do SIP again, if it ain't hydro, I will have automated watering; Drain to waste, F&D, etc but not having that H2O really holds you back. Also I think managing the VPD better might unlock further improvements... my new fan will have both temp and humidity control so here's hoping for the best.


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## Tstat (Sep 30, 2019)

I have had mixed results so far, but have had some bad luck with being away for extended periods of time. That said, I am going to give this a real extended go. Here is what I am doing:















Lobster compost is for a top dressing. I also have the Kashi for the top.


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## Hawg Wild (Oct 1, 2019)

Tstat said:


> I have had mixed results so far, but have had some bad luck with being away for extended periods of time. That said, I am going to give this a real extended go. Here is what I am doing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The bokashi needs to be under a mulch or cover if you want a mycelium mat to form.


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## Tstat (Oct 1, 2019)

Hawg Wild said:


> The bokashi needs to be under a mulch or cover if you want a mycelium mat to form.


It goes under a layer of lobster compost.


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## NewGrower2011 (Oct 1, 2019)

I'm contemplating if a coco mat on top could be used somehow in these; I like being able to top-feed/water a bit as needed especially if there's any question to wicking. My main point being to control the evaporation more than the benefit of mycellium/top-dressing angle. But I imagine that would still work for that matter and may even assist... Otherwise just a plastic liner on top was something I didn't do last time that I do plan to include next run in some form.

I'm aborting my re-veg attempt since it wasn't really ideal conditions going in - this 1st SIP run I basically dropped in my plants in smart-pots as-is without taking them out then just packed my soil around them to avoid any root damage. I lifted one out and was happy to find semi-moist in the bottom half and that roots weren't really out of the pots very much at all. Definitely never hit the rez... The smart-pots probably limited rooting plus I didn't give them that much more veg time before flipping. Even with this, record haul for me/top quality.

I did get my soil report back. They sucked the N out like crazy, definitely will be re-amending with alfalfa/neem/karanja and maybe some feather meal. I can tell the Big6 micros helped but I think my Mn and Z need some boosting. The big surprise is my sulfur is through the roof (again) which I'm thinking stems from moderate usage of the PhotoSynthesis+ (my best guess). My other inputs shouldn't have had that much sulfur (some Bu's compost maybe contributed??) 

My big changes for next run is longer veg in the SIP, have my net to veg into/not a retrofit. make sure you can access them/move around (add dolly) and in my case keeping the top moist and alive. 

I'll probably try to source individual micro inputs for the boosts I need; I have Azomite and Big6 but now I need to be more selective and I don't want more Al contributed from the Azomite. My N is very low and my K is low compared to the P so now the game is to get the soil rebalanced and primed for the next run. Little cooking time, add some fresh castings/wigglers and EM-1/microbial inoculants and then see if I can beat this run.


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## Hawg Wild (Oct 2, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> I'm contemplating if a coco mat on top could be used somehow in these; I like being able to top-feed/water a bit as needed especially if there's any question to wicking. My main point being to control the evaporation more than the benefit of mycellium/top-dressing angle. But I imagine that would still work for that matter and may even assist... Otherwise just a plastic liner on top was something I didn't do last time that I do plan to include next run in some form.
> 
> I'm aborting my re-veg attempt since it wasn't really ideal conditions going in - this 1st SIP run I basically dropped in my plants in smart-pots as-is without taking them out then just packed my soil around them to avoid any root damage. I lifted one out and was happy to find semi-moist in the bottom half and that roots weren't really out of the pots very much at all. Definitely never hit the rez... The smart-pots probably limited rooting plus I didn't give them that much more veg time before flipping. Even with this, record haul for me/top quality.
> 
> ...


Your excess sulfur is from the chelated minerals in the Big 6, all or most of which are bonded as sulfates. I'm not sure that it's a very good idea to use those in a living soil, to be honest, as they're chelated and designed to feed the plant, not the soil. Of all those, the only one that might make a noticeable difference is Manganese. The others aren't going to hurt, but I would use them as a foliar spray only so your roots aren't accumulating salts.


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## NewGrower2011 (Oct 6, 2019)

Yeah I may forego the Big6 if that could be a culprit, I'm only low on two of them so I might have to find inputs that address them specifically. I'm also going to use some Bu's Compost this time along with some refreshed castings. It's the N inputs I'll be sorting out first and then making sure my Ca:Mg are where they need to be as well. Once I figure that out I think I'll have some small adjustments for PK and then let it bake for a few weeks. I'll probably prep a kick start tea to time things so the tea can help in the process and still be kicking a bit when they go in.


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## Nugbender (Oct 7, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Air injecting Sips,,, Yup it works, I am going to order a Fusion fish tank pump for 8 bucks delered on Ebay to go with my earthbox


Great post brother and thanks for the share! I just picked up 2 disc air stones to add to the earthboxes ill be buying next!


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## Tim Fox (Oct 7, 2019)

Nugbender said:


> Great post brother and thanks for the share! I just picked up 2 disc air stones to add to the earthboxes ill be buying next!


good morning, i used the earthbox to grow in 1 time,, the problem with the earthbox when used indoors, is the over flow for the water is hidden underneath, so you dont know when its getting full until it over flows all over your grow room,, i eneded up spacing the earth box up on 2x4s so i could slide a tray under neath to catch the water when it over flowed,, even this was messy and oftern times the water would track across the bottom of the earth box and miss the over flow tray all together,, so i had to use towels and dry things up,,, so what i did was switched to the GROWBOX,, it has the res fill on the front, and you can see the water level thru the fill hole , you can also see the roots too , this way you can fill and stop before it over flows,, they have the same capacity and hold the same amount of soil, the grow box has the win over the earth box in Res capacity,, the earthbox holds 2.5 gallons the the grow box holds 4 gallons of water


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## Tim Fox (Oct 7, 2019)

Nugbender said:


> Great post brother and thanks for the share! I just picked up 2 disc air stones to add to the earthboxes ill be buying next!


here is a couple of pictures , you can see the res fill on the front, plus gives you a view into the res,


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## Nugbender (Oct 7, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> Looks very similar the Earthbox, which implies that no one has applied for a patent on these things. Competition is good, $20 seems like a great deal (I'm sure I've spent more than that on parts making mine). According to the HD website, my local store has 18 in stock, next time I'm there I'll have to check them out.


Just bought 1 to test out


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## Nugbender (Oct 7, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> here is a couple of pictures , you can see the res fill on the front, plus gives you a view into the res,


Nice, appreciate the feedback. Over flooding sucks, just grabbed some gro kashi as well to top dress the soil for these. Ill be putting a pineapple crack auto and have some chem 91' S1 waiting as well whoop whoop


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## Deadhead13 (Oct 7, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> good morning, i used the earthbox to grow in 1 time,, the problem with the earthbox when used indoors, is the over flow for the water is hidden underneath, so you dont know when its getting full until it over flows all over your grow room,, i eneded up spacing the earth box up on 2x4s so i could slide a tray under neath to catch the water when it over flowed,, even this was messy and oftern times the water would track across the bottom of the earth box and miss the over flow tray all together,, so i had to use towels and dry things up,,, so what i did was switched to the GROWBOX,, it has the res fill on the front, and you can see the water level thru the fill hole , you can also see the roots too , this way you can fill and stop before it over flows,, they have the same capacity and hold the same amount of soil, the grow box has the win over the earth box in Res capacity,, the earthbox holds 2.5 gallons the the grow box holds 4 gallons of water


Great info, thank you.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 7, 2019)

@Humanrob and I were talking recently, he mentioned maybe growing this winter in one of his big sips,,,, so it has me thinking ill do my winter grow in my GROWBOX, Sip , my last 2 grows were in regular 3 or 5 gallon plastic pots, there were up sides to both, but i think my yeild was bigger in the SIP, also i want to do a little bit of training and the sips seem to give much greater speed to vegging once the water roots take off


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## Imbald (Oct 8, 2019)

Here is a pretty simple sight gauge to monitor water level in reservoir my buddy just put on his new earthbox.
I'm going to be putting a float type gauge on my two sometime in the next month.
Don't like guessing or messes on the floor.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 8, 2019)

Imbald said:


> Here is a pretty simple sight gauge to monitor water level in reservoir my buddy just put on his new earthbox.
> I'm going to be putting a float type gauge on my two sometime in the next month.
> Don't like guessing or messes on the floor.
> View attachment 4405090


i have seen float gauges that use a styrofoam Ball stuck on the end of a bamboo skewer and then slide down the fill tube, and then marks places on the skewer to show full or half full and empty, that way there is no drilling in the side of the earth box,, octopots use the same method, you can see how the float works in this picture of an octopot


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## Tim Fox (Oct 8, 2019)

i was also thinking about gluing a plastic plate over the square hole where water over flows the res, thus sealing it, and re drilling an over flow hole on the side , like the INtainers use, even with a plastic tube attached?, to direct the over flow into a tray,, that way then a person could actually Flush the res if they wanted,


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## Imbald (Oct 8, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> i have seen float gauges that use a styrofoam Ball stuck on the end of a bamboo skewer and then slide down the fill tube, and then marks places on the skewer to show full or half full and empty, that way there is no drilling in the side of the earth box,, octopots use the same method, you can see how the float works in this picture of an octopot


That is basically what I was thinking. I have several fishing bobbers that are narrow and 12 in in length. I would either use one in the fill tube or run an additional, smaller diameter tube, next to the fill tube.
I haven't even took mine out of the box yet to check it out; but I need to.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 8, 2019)

Imbald said:


> That is basically what I was thinking. I have several fishing bobbers that are narrow and 12 in in length. I would either use one in the fill tube or run an additional, smaller diameter tube, next to the fill tube.
> I haven't even took mine out of the box yet to check it out; but I need to.


they grow some sweet Cannabis, your going to love it


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## Tstat (Oct 13, 2019)

Here's a shot of my room today. 4 SIPs and 4 potted:


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## Tim Fox (Oct 13, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Here's a shot of my room today. 4 SIPs and 4 potted:
> View attachment 4407512


rocking the cobs too,, very nice


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## Tim Fox (Oct 13, 2019)

i am having a hard time deciding if i want to do my next grow in sips or not


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## Tstat (Oct 13, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> rocking the cobs too,, very nice


I just harvested some Purple Uni x Pure OG, was two plants in one SIP. Came out beautiful, I’ll update on the weight and show some bud shots.
I bought a big garage can that I am now mixing my soil in. I add all the amendments and mix it up really good. It’s nice to have it on hand all the time for starting new SIPs or transplanting stuff.


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## Imbald (Oct 13, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> i am having a hard time deciding if i want to do my next grow in sips or not


I thought you really liked them; so why change?
Especially if you already have them.


Edit: after reading that, it could sound like I'm coming off cocky. That wasn't my intent.
But this is my thinking. I could be wrong, and feel free to correct me.
If your going organic, and want a healthy, thriving micro herd in your living soil. SIPS would do the best to keep the soil in the "zone" to support life in the soil, because they are keeping your soil constantly moist, but not to wet. Hand watering, your going back and forth from different levels of wet and dry. Maybe not bad for the plants, but not the best environment for your living soil.
In my opinion, even Blumats don't compare. They don't keep "all" your soil moist. Just a cone shape area. Being a wide area at the top, and narrow at bottom of your containers.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 14, 2019)

Tstat said:


> I just harvested some Purple Uni x Pure OG, was two plants in one SIP. Came out beautiful, I’ll update on the weight and show some bud shots.
> I bought a big garage can that I am now mixing my soil in. I add all the amendments and mix it up really good. It’s nice to have it on hand all the time for starting new SIPs or transplanting stuff.


good idea,, i too have beem thinking about what type of nutes i am going to use in my next grow,, mostly i want to use the trench method again, i was thinking about a fruit n flower trench on the back row, and a tomato fert in the front trench,


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## Tim Fox (Oct 14, 2019)

Imbald said:


> I thought you really liked them; so why change?
> Especially if you already have them.
> 
> 
> ...


hahah,, no you didnt sount cocky,, oh there are a few reasons why i go back and forth on what type of container i am going to grow in,, on my last 2 or 3 grows i went back to plastic containers , 3-5 gallon size, and just 2 plants in my box, the reasons were
1 i can spin them 
2, i can lift them out during the grow and trim and or spray and work inside the box if needed
3, easier at the start and the finish as i dont have to try and lift the heavy sip in and out of the box which is located in the bedroom on carpet

some of us debated on just what type of buds sips produced things like larfy or if they stretched allot more than regular pots, long points between nodes , stuff like that,, but now i am just not so sure, i mean i see people grow great big dense buds in deep water culter hydro, shoot all of thier roots are in a bucket of water,, lol,, 

I am going to try and figure out a way to put handles on the sip or make a tray with handles so i can help myself at the start and finish of the grow to man handle the heavy sip in and out of the bedroom , i also need to plan on trying to let the res go close to dry so there isnt 4 gallons of water to spill out on the carpet at the end of the grow also,,


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## Tstat (Oct 14, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> good idea,, i too have beem thinking about what type of nutes i am going to use in my next grow,, mostly i want to use the trench method again, i was thinking about a fruit n flower trench on the back row, and a tomato fert in the front trench,


I also did a trench with some all purpose natural fert. I made some nice soil with Happy Frog, Green Tree Ultimate, guano, bone meal, perlite, and some lime. I put GroKashi on top of that, and once it did it’s thing I put a nice layer of lobster compost. I also dropped in an air stone under the whole thing. This will be my first real test with this method.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 14, 2019)

Tstat said:


> I also did a trench with some all purpose natural fert. I made some nice soil with Happy Frog, Green Tree Ultimate, guano, bone meal, perlite, and some lime. I put GroKashi on top of that, and once it did it’s thing I put a nice layer of lobster compost. I also dropped in an air stone under the whole thing. This will be my first real test with this method.


is the top of your SIP able to vent then?,, every grow i have done has been plastic covered, does moisture reach all the way to your top layer of soil with your method?


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## Tim Fox (Oct 14, 2019)

here is the clone menu from the store near me,,, take a look a t the picture,, what strain would you guys choose?,,


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## Tstat (Oct 14, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> is the top of your SIP able to vent then?,, every grow i have done has been plastic covered, does moisture reach all the way to your top layer of soil with your method?


I use the cloth type covers that came with them. So, yea, it’s covered and it’s a little moist on the top, but not overly wet or anything. Right now I have one Bag Of Oranges in one sip and 2 Space Monkeys each in the other 2.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 14, 2019)

Tstat said:


> I use the cloth type covers that came with them. So, yea, it’s covered and it’s a little moist on the top, but not overly wet or anything. Right now I have one Bag Of Oranges in one sip and 2 Space Monkeys each in the other 2.


yup,, all of the plastic covers i have are used up now,, i dont plan on buying more from earthbox,, i was thinking of just laying plastic black trash bags over the top of the soil, i like how it keeps bugs from going back and forth into our out of the dirt ,, 
yup sounds perfect on your soil moisture,, they should be just slightly wet at the top layer, ,, wet is almost too strong a word,, but you get the idea,, i like the burlap cloth type things,, i think i have one somehwere that came with the growbox, but i think they sewed some kinda nutes into the cover so i never used it


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## Tstat (Oct 18, 2019)

So, I had the two Purple Uni/Pure OG plants in one sip. It grows really stretchy and was trained under a screen. I ended up with 4 OZs dry:

I thought that was pretty awesome. The photo does not do it justice. IRL it's very purple and SO sticky.
Here is a Bag Of Oranges just about ready- 2 plants in one sip:


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## Tim Fox (Oct 18, 2019)

Tstat said:


> So, I had the two Purple Uni/Pure OG plants in one sip. It grows really stretchy and was trained under a screen. I ended up with 4 OZs dry:
> View attachment 4409688
> I thought that was pretty awesome. The photo does not do it justice. IRL it's very purple and SO sticky.
> Here is a Bag Of Oranges just about ready- 2 plants in one sip:
> View attachment 4409689


check out all the frost on those leaves,, very nice,


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## Tstat (Oct 18, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> check out all the frost on those leaves,, very nice,


Thanks, yea, it's gonna get chopped soon. I'm still working on the outdoor stuff.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 18, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> One nice thing about this design is that it looks like you can see into the res so that you can know when its full without actually having water run out -- nice when its indoors. I went with a system using a tube to show res water height.
> 
> View attachment 3656101


Hey Rob what parts do I need to do this , I might drill my earth box and run it?


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## Tim Fox (Oct 18, 2019)

vostok said:


> One of the most common replies here on RIU has to be
> 
> *'Lift your pot before you water' check that weight..?*
> 
> ...


Just reading through some of the old stuff, and this post made me wonder if the old "flood drain" I used to run really was the best for this , having the roots exposed to oxygen all day long except for those 2 or 3 flood session s that lasted a few minutes


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## vostok (Oct 19, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Just reading through some of the old stuff, and this post made me wonder if the old "flood drain" I used to run really was the best for this , having the roots exposed to oxygen all day long except for those 2 or 3 flood session s that lasted a few minutes


Google Kratky I'm using that method now now pumps either

good luck


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## Tim Fox (Oct 19, 2019)

vostok said:


> Google Kratky I'm using that method now now pumps either
> 
> good luck


Good to see your still growing and having fun yes I will Google it


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## Tim Fox (Oct 19, 2019)

vostok said:


> Google Kratky I'm using that method now now pumps either
> 
> good luck


Hey when you do kracky method are you using a single tote of nite solution for the entire grow or do you ad nutes along the way


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## Humanrob (Oct 19, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Hey Rob what parts do I need to do this , I might drill my earth box and run it?


You are in luck, while cleaning and organizing for the upcoming grow, I came across some leftovers from my last builds. I have three rubber grommets and three "barbed elbows" -- you can have them -- all you'll need is some 1/2 tubing.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 19, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> You are in luck, while cleaning and organizing for the upcoming grow, I came across some leftovers from my last builds. I have three rubber grommets and three "barbed elbows" -- you can have them -- all you'll need is some 1/2 tubing.


It's about time we hook up


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## Tim Fox (Oct 20, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> You are in luck, while cleaning and organizing for the upcoming grow, I came across some leftovers from my last builds. I have three rubber grommets and three "barbed elbows" -- you can have them -- all you'll need is some 1/2 tubing.


I am really caught up on what i want to do for a growing container this time around, i have the earthbox and the grow box, i sorrta want more soil in the sips, so i am looking at 10 gallon storage tubs, and i could make 2 of them fit in the grow cab, stacked inside eatch other i think they would be about as tall as the earthbox, but hold more soil , at least more soil for each plant, , but i dont know that i need more dirt?,, i go round and round , seeing the Kratky method of hydro really interests me like Hempy bucket did,, but with Kratky that is no over flow, removing the mess that i didnt like with hempy, but it would have me back to mixing nutes and phing water,, ,, its kinda too late for this grow since i have purchased all the items to make the super soil , i need to get over to home depot, and measure some containers,, then if i build new sips, i need to get some net pots and guess at wick size,,


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## OneHitDone (Oct 20, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> I am really caught up on what i want to do for a growing container this time around, i have the earthbox and the grow box, i sorrta want more soil in the sips, so i am looking at 10 gallon storage tubs, and i could make 2 of them fit in the grow cab, stacked inside eatch other i think they would be about as tall as the earthbox, but hold more soil , at least more soil for each plant, , but i dont know that i need more dirt?,, i go round and round , seeing the Kratky method of hydro really interests me like Hempy bucket did,, but with Kratky that is no over flow, removing the mess that i didnt like with hempy, but it would have me back to mixing nutes and phing water,, ,, its kinda too late for this grow since i have purchased all the items to make the super soil , i need to get over to home depot, and measure some containers,, then if i build new sips, i need to get some net pots and guess at wick size,,


I personally despise Kratky. No circulation or changing of solution just makes no sense from a toxicity / nutrition perspective.
You can search youtube and there are many grows on many species of plants testing Kratky against an aerated system and in all of them the aerated system beats the pants of Kratky


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## Humanrob (Oct 20, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> I am really caught up on what i want to do for a growing container this time around, i have the earthbox and the grow box, i sorrta want more soil in the sips, so i am looking at 10 gallon storage tubs, and i could make 2 of them fit in the grow cab, *stacked inside each other *i think they would be about as tall as the earthbox, but hold more soil , at least more soil for each plant, , but i dont know that i need more dirt?,, i go round and round , seeing the Kratky method of hydro really interests me like Hempy bucket did,, but with Kratky that is no over flow, removing the mess that i didnt like with hempy, but it would have me back to mixing nutes and phing water,, ,, its kinda too late for this grow since i have purchased all the items to make the super soil , i need to get over to home depot, and measure some containers,, then if i build new sips, i need to get some net pots and guess at wick size,,


Wow, that kind of made my head spin! hahaha I guess it depends on what brand/kind of bin you are using, I found that some kinds when they stacked inside each other didn't leave much room for the res. For instance an 18g in an 18g would give you 18 gallons of soil, but only about 1/4 (?) of that volume in water. That's why I fit a 14g into an 18g, I think that left me with 10g of water in the res. Those were heavy beasts to remove from the tent at the end of the grow! When I got down to 3g bins, I just stacked one on top of the other for a 3 over 3, which worked well for short (3-4 week) veg times. 

My last SIP was 5 gallons of soil in a fabric pot over a 10g bin/res. That worked pretty well, but I'd like to up it to 7 or even 10 gallons of soil if I could to support a longer veg time. I will say that using the Rubbermaid's lid to hold the 5 gallon pot required that I build a structure out of PVC to support the weight of the wet soil, otherwise the lid sagged. 

You mentioned having 10 gallons of soil, how big do you want the res to be?


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## Tim Fox (Oct 20, 2019)

OneHitDone said:


> I personally despise Kratky. No circulation or changing of solution just makes no sense from a toxicity / nutrition perspective.
> You can search youtube and there are many grows on many species of plants testing Kratky against an aerated system and in all of them the aerated system beats the pants of Kratky


I really appreciate the first hand knowledge , thank you for your feedback, saves me allot of time and headache, I am really enjoying your lettuce grow this time around, for a while I got all wrapped up in trying to decide if I wanted to trade in my cobs for a quantum board,, I would gladly try a bulb set up , I hear so much about cmh


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## Tim Fox (Oct 20, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> Wow, that kind of made my head spin! hahaha I guess it depends on what brand/kind of bin you are using, I found that some kinds when they stacked inside each other didn't leave much room for the res. For instance an 18g in an 18g would give you 18 gallons of soil, but only about 1/4 (?) of that volume in water. That's why I fit a 14g into an 18g, I think that left me with 10g of water in the res. Those were heavy beasts to remove from the tent at the end of the grow! When I got down to 3g bins, I just stacked one on top of the other for a 3 over 3, which worked well for short (3-4 week) veg times.
> 
> My last SIP was 5 gallons of soil in a fabric pot over a 10g bin/res. That worked pretty well, but I'd like to up it to 7 or even 10 gallons of soil if I could to support a longer veg time. I will say that using the Rubbermaid's lid to hold the 5 gallon pot required that I build a structure out of PVC to support the weight of the wet soil, otherwise the lid sagged.
> 
> You mentioned having 10 gallons of soil, how big do you want the res to be?


Haha ya that was allot to digest, I dug out some old hard drives so I could see some older grows , and my normal veg time from clone is usually 3 weeks , 4 or more only if I do a partial mainline, and I am considering doing that , I could also see I was way over topping in my older grows just resulting in lots of tiny branches all over the place, , did anyone ever figure out the optimum soil amount for a water only grow to Last , 3 months or so total grow time ,


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## Tim Fox (Oct 22, 2019)

what size Air injection pumps are you guys using to ad air stones to a single sip?


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## Tim Fox (Oct 24, 2019)

ok i have decided to grow in my SIP again,, also going with an air pump and 2 air stones,, i have gathered all the ingrediants for a new super soil mix, a few more dry items to mix in with the fox farms ocean forrest soil


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## Humanrob (Oct 24, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> what size Air injection pumps are you guys using to ad air stones to a single sip?


I found they LOVE the bubbles, so I used one for a 40 gallon fish tank in a 10 gallon res. 



Tim Fox said:


> ok i have decided to grow in my SIP again,, also going with an air pump and 2 air stones,, i have gathered all the ingrediants for a new super soil mix, a few more dry items to mix in with the fox farms ocean forrest soil


I look forward to seeing how this one goes, and if you see any difference after using air stones.


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## Tstat (Oct 24, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> I found they LOVE the bubbles, so I used one for a 40 gallon fish tank in a 10 gallon res.
> 
> 
> I look forward to seeing how this one goes, and if you see any difference after using air stones.


Yea, so I think the air stones are gonna make a big difference. Some of mine smelled bad in the end with no air. Not only that, I see explosive growth for a while, but I think in the end, the roots grow into the water, which is stagnant with no stones, and could do better with aeration. This time I placed a long air tone in each sip, right in the middle of the water res.


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## 1shaggyDude (Oct 24, 2019)

Are you guys running the air stones also using EM-1 in your reservoirs?


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## Humanrob (Oct 24, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Yea, so I think the air stones are gonna make a big difference. Some of mine smelled bad in the end with no air. Not only that, I see explosive growth for a while, but I think in the end, the roots grow into the water, which is stagnant with no stones, and could do better with aeration. This time I placed a long air tone in each sip, right in the middle of the water res.


Placing it under or adjacent to the wick helps, if that's not obvious. Roots were just bursting out of my wicks once I did that.



1shaggyDude said:


> Are you guys running the air stones also using EM-1 in your reservoirs?


I don't know what EM-1 is, so I'm pretty sure I'm not using it. The only thing I've added to my res water was Pondzyme, and I did not do that consistently. I guess I'd add a little silica sometimes, but mostly it's just water.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 25, 2019)

Ok, Getting the sip set up with the air stones and pump,, It has to be quiet,, my grow box is in the corner of my bedroom and well, quiet is more for us to sleep than to keep other people from finding it,, but i do pride myself on how stone cold quiet my grow box is ,, 
I decided to zip tie a rock to each airstone to keep them on the bottom of the res, and then I set the top soil part of the sip into place, and i put some towels in the sip to simulate soil dampning, and sure enough the bubbles got real quiet,, the bubbles were louder than the air pump is,, hahah
i thought about buidling a foam box to keep the air pump inside of so it would be perfectly quiet, but after some testing the air pump was actually louder inside the foam box than simply standing on some foam legs,, i like easy,, well it looks like this is going to work, 
some pics


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## Tim Fox (Oct 25, 2019)

This is the soil mix i am going to run this grow,, It cost me around 80 dollars to get all of these amendments sent to my front door, I purchased a couple of them from a local grow shop, but the guy admited they pretty much only sale bottled nutes,, , well i tried to give him my buisness,, 
this was allot easier than growing my own earthworms in bins hahaha,, i like easy

1.5cubic feet Fox Farm Ocean Forest
-38cups Wiggle Worms Earthworm Casting (1-0-0)
-10cups Perlite-11tsp Rooters Mycorrhizae
*Soil Base
__________________________
-1.5cups Indonesian Hi-P Bat Guano (.5-13-.2)
-1.5cups Algamin Kelp Meal (1-0-2)
-1.5cups Espoma Tomato Tone (3-4-6)
*Nutritional Amendments
__________________________
-1.5cups Azomite
-0.5cup Espoma Green sand
-1.25cups Hi-Cal Lime
*Mineral Amendments
_This mix is from a old member here that I trust,and he had awesome results!!
This is what im going to run next run.Have been running FF line of nutes.And FFOF


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## Humanrob (Oct 25, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Ok, Getting the sip set up with the air stones and pump,, It has to be quiet,, my grow box is in the corner of my bedroom and well, quiet is more for us to sleep than to keep other people from finding it,, but i do pride myself on how stone cold quiet my grow box is ,,
> I decided to zip tie a rock to each airstone to keep them on the bottom of the res, and then I set the top soil part of the sip into place, and i put some towels in the sip to simulate soil dampning, and sure enough the bubbles got real quiet,, the bubbles were louder than the air pump is,, hahah
> i thought about buidling a foam box to keep the air pump inside of so it would be perfectly quiet, but after some testing the air pump was actually louder inside the foam box than simply standing on some foam legs,, i like easy,, well it looks like this is going to work,
> some pics


People pay good money for little fountains just so they can year the sound of water bubbling while they sleep! So as we used to say, "that's a feature not a fuckup". Bonus! 

That looks great, it should really add some dimension to the root space. And your soil mix looks like it has everything covered!


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## Hawg Wild (Oct 25, 2019)

So... I started a KNF/probiotic Earthbox autoflower grow using a mix of Buildasoil 3.0, FF Ocean Forest, and some cocoa bean hulls for the soil base amended with IMOs, 1/2c. per cubic foot each of diatomaceous earth, oyster shell flour, and fish bone meal; topdressed with Bokashi, IMO 3, and a little more oyster shell flour, then covered with a layer of pinto bean compost, a little more Bokashi and IMO 3, then mulched with a layer of the cocoa bean hulls and a layer of barley straw. I stuck a good ball of seedling starter soil mix in 2 per Earthbox and started seeds directly in that. Other than having to restart another Auto NL because my dumb ass blew it over with the pole fan, it looks like it's going well. I'm not one for thorough documentation but I'll probably post a brief grow report when they're done. Got 1 each Seedsman Auto NL, Seedsman Auto Alaskan Purple, Fastbuds LSD-25, and Binary Selections Nurple going... all just seedlings at this point. My mix is really holding water well, so that's a good sign, I think. I will be using the full compliment of KNF inputs this round, other than the water soluble calcium and calcium phosphate, as those are already in my soil in plentiful quantities.


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## NewGrower2011 (Oct 27, 2019)

I just dismantled my first SIP and have to agree the rez can have quite a funky smell. I used EM1 throughout the run but also top fed other goodies from NFTG which essentially has some sugars, used some Recharge (molasses) so I can't say I'm surprised that it stank in the end.

I did not use any air stones (one of the goals, being 100% passive setup for being quiet and the reliability of no dependency on power) but am curious and considering it for the next run. My big question is how much air do you need in one of our SIP deals? I want QUIET operation so instead of my EcoAir commercial pump so I considered a smaller dual outlet per SIP, but with 4+ of those I'm uncertain if the commercial wouldn't be quieter especially if I built a sound isolation box for it.

For those who've done at least 1+ run did you revise your wick any after the first? I used a 100% coco wick this last time and it did the job, only question is how well versus one with some perlite or pumice would have done. The bottom 1/3 of my SIP staid nice and damp it turns out even with leaving the top entirely exposed and sitting for the entire run. Next time I aim to do better and use the 'shower cap' approach just as long as it's removable so I can top dress/top feed occasionally. I also considered some type of rope (nylon? hemp? other options?) and draping strands down into the wick chamber before packing it... then letting these 'runners' come up into the SIP bed itself a bit to encourage more wicking.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 29, 2019)

alright, the sip is fired up,, i am growing Dog walker and Cookies and Cream,


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## Deadhead13 (Oct 29, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> alright, the sip is fired up,, i am growing Dog walker and Cookies and Cream,


That looks great, make a thread for us to follow.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 29, 2019)

working on getting the temps up, the variac speed controller cant go any lower,, i added a little light power,, i may have to lay a few cfls in the bottom for a few days


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## Tim Fox (Oct 29, 2019)

Deadhead13 said:


> That looks great, make a thread for us to follow.


i was debating with myself if i wanted to do a grow thread or not


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## Tim Fox (Oct 29, 2019)

here is the soil mix i went with this time around


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## Deadhead13 (Oct 29, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> i was debating with myself if i wanted to do a grow thread or not


I used to debate with myself and folks called me a drunk. I hope your “Yes” side wins as I’m interested to see these SIPs work inside. I’ve got no doubts about them working well outdoors.


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## Tim Fox (Oct 29, 2019)

Deadhead13 said:


> I used to debate with myself and folks called me a drunk. I hope your “Yes” side wins as I’m interested to see these SIPs work inside. I’ve got no doubts about them working well outdoors.


well your in luck, this is probably my 4th indoor grow in a sip,, they work really well


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## Tim Fox (Oct 29, 2019)

before i went to the state legal store to buy clones, i went thru my stash of jars, so i took a pic,, not really sure why i am doing another grow,, its nice to keep fresh stuff around,, i just cant smoke it all


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## Deadhead13 (Oct 29, 2019)

I don’t know if we can ever have too much, I can’t wait to get my inside going.


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## Tstat (Oct 29, 2019)

Right now I am battling aphids and bud worms. I guess it’s because I brought branches in for trimming and maybe infected the indoor area. It does suck, though. I never saw either of these fuckers indoors when I was 100% hydro.


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## natureboygrower (Oct 29, 2019)

A couple of bodhi mother's helpers I put into my sips only 16 days ago. Went with two round 5" air stones per sip with a 30-60 gallon air pump. The growth is tremendous. Started a weekly watering of em1 as well, never used the stuff before this past summer which I was applying to my compost pile. Figured I'd try it indoors, though I'm going to skip next week, I notice a slight clawing in one of my plants.


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## natureboygrower (Oct 29, 2019)

Here are the stones I used and a bud pic of my last SIP run. No looking back for me when it comes to growing tek


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## Tim Fox (Nov 4, 2019)

now thats living right there


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## Imbald (Nov 4, 2019)

Speaking of air to the roots. Has anyone here ran a base mix in sips with 50% aeration? 
A while back I read somewhere (maybe here?) a guy recommending your media base should be 50/25/25 in sips, for better drainage and more air. 
So it would be something like
50% Perlite/pumice/lava rock
25% castings/compost 
25% peat/coir.
I've always mixed my base media approx. 33% each. But that's in standard containers or pots and I'm just starting to explore the sips.
Seems like it would make sense since your soil is costantly wet or moist. 
I was contemplating trying it and wondered how much difference it would make, or if anyone has tried it.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 4, 2019)

Imbald said:


> Speaking of air to the roots. Has anyone here ran a base mix in sips with 50% aeration?
> A while back I read somewhere (maybe here?) a guy recommending your media base should be 50/25/25 in sips, for better drainage and more air.
> So it would be something like
> 50% Perlite/pumice/lava rock
> ...


so with the lack of nutes in the air mix base,, would you be adding nutes to the res then,, if so Captain morgan has done this with great success with his octopots


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## NewGrower2011 (Nov 4, 2019)

Was he running salt or organic nutes in the rez? I would be curious if you did attempt to go the semi-soil-less route with a lot of aeration if something like NFTG line could be used. But when you investigate the line they're clear that you mix at time of use/feeding as there are immediate reactions - so this sounds like they wouldn't wouldn't necessarily work well in a rez - more top-fed perhaps. I was top-feeding with NFTG my last run and think I caused a ph swing or something and got some stress seeding from an otherwise known stable clone so I broke the less-is-better rule at some point.


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## NewGrower2011 (Nov 4, 2019)

fwiw - In my re-amending/reset for the next run I did add about 6 cups more of perlite to each tote which was around 12 gal or so once it was all fluffed up. Had a good bit of left-over from prior run with that being added.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 4, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> Was he running salt or organic nutes in the rez? I would be curious if you did attempt to go the semi-soil-less route with a lot of aeration if something like NFTG line could be used. But when you investigate the line they're clear that you mix at time of use/feeding as there are immediate reactions - so this sounds like they wouldn't wouldn't necessarily work well in a rez - more top-fed perhaps. I was top-feeding with NFTG my last run and think I caused a ph swing or something and got some stress seeding from an otherwise known stable clone so I broke the less-is-better rule at some point.


he did not run salts, the were some expensive organic bottled nutes he is active on the forum, send him a message, he has always been kind to me and helpful


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## Imbald (Nov 4, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> so with the lack of nutes in the air mix base,, would you be adding nutes to the res then,, if so Captain morgan has done this with great success with his octopots


I guess I didn't realize that much aeration in the media would then require additional feeding in the water or reservoir. I was going to use some EM1 in the rez, but that's about it. Don't think I want to go that route this round. Trying to kiss. 
I like to prop my feet up a little to. Lol


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## Tim Fox (Nov 4, 2019)

Imbald said:


> I guess I didn't realize that much aeration in the media would then require additional feeding in the water or reservoir. I was going to use some EM1 in the rez, but that's about it. Don't think I want to go that route this round. Trying to kiss.
> I like to prop my feet up a little to. Lol


thats really the whole idea of the SIP,, simple, to not have to do all the work of hydro,, if i was to do hydro it would not be in a sip,,


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## Tstat (Nov 5, 2019)

So, my 3 SIPs are now several weeks into flowering and they are looking amazing. I am using air stones this time and made a really nice soil mix, bat guano trenches, GroKashi, and lobster compost. I've said in the past that I got mixed results- this time should be nearly perfect.

This is one Bag Of Oranges, it's a huge bush. 
Check out the stem:

The next 2 are Space Monkey. 


And here are the 2 SIPs that I planted today. They are 4 Critical Kush:

Finally, here is a shot of the flowering room. There are the 3 SIPs, a couple 5 gal almost ready, and 4 or 5 new 5 gal. pots. Strains are Space Monkey, Lemon Louts, Bag Of Oranges, Bag Of Skunks & Oranges, Chem Kesey/X-Mas Bud, and Sunshine Daydream.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 5, 2019)

Tstat said:


> So, my 3 SIPs are now several weeks into flowering and they are looking amazing. I am using air stones this time and made a really nice soil mix, bat guano trenches, GroKashi, and lobster compost. I've said in the past that I got mixed results- this time should be nearly perfect.
> View attachment 4416834
> This is one Bag Of Oranges, it's a huge bush.
> Check out the stem:
> ...


dude did you mount quantum boards to music stands?? GENIUS!!!

grow is looking good man, lots of leaves those sips can really support allot of plant!!!,, 

I am going to super crop my clones on friday, and lay the main tops over before i lay the scrog screen down


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## Tstat (Nov 5, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> dude did you mount quantum boards to music stands?? GENIUS!!!


Thanks for noticing! I’ve talked about it on other threads. It’s the best thing I did after switching to LEDs. I have 4 and I can move them around wherever I need them. They provide side light, overhead light, even lower canopy light. The idea just came to me in a weird way one night. Totally adjustable and invaluable in my room situation.


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## 1shaggyDude (Nov 5, 2019)

I wanted to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. Because of all the great info here I have completed my first indoor sip run. Ended up with around 280 grams dry.


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## Humanrob (Nov 5, 2019)

1shaggyDude said:


> I wanted to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. Because of all the great info here I have completed my first indoor sip run. Ended up with around 280 grams dry.
> View attachment 4417048


Nice run! If you don't mind sharing, strains? kind of lights? length of veg time? Looks like they were from clones, but still curious, clones or seeds as your start?


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## 1shaggyDude (Nov 5, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> Nice run! If you don't mind sharing, strains? kind of lights? length of veg time? Looks like they were from clones, but still curious, clones or seeds as your start?


Thank you, and yes, they were clones. The one on the right is Buddha Tahoe og, and the other was blue zkittles. They got 3 weeks veg. I use a sunsystem 315w lec in a 3x3.
The Tahoe came out amazing but took 10 weeks to finish. The blue zkittles was just ok, but still better than most of the stuff at the clubs.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 5, 2019)

1shaggyDude said:


> Thank you, and yes, they were clones. The one on the right is Buddha Tahoe og, and the other was blue zkittles. They got 3 weeks veg. I use a sunsystem 315w lec in a 3x3.
> The Tahoe came out amazing but took 10 weeks to finish. The blue zkittles was just ok, but still better than most of the stuff at the clubs.


Hey what kinda sips are you using, killer grow buddy


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## Humanrob (Nov 5, 2019)

1shaggyDude said:


> Thank you, and yes, they were clones. The one on the right is Buddha Tahoe og, and the other was blue zkittles. They got 3 weeks veg. I use a sunsystem 315w lec in a 3x3.
> The Tahoe came out amazing but took 10 weeks to finish. The blue zkittles was just ok, but still better than most of the stuff at the clubs.


Very nice! I've probably done a half dozen grows in my 3x3, everything from one GG4 in a sip to 9 seedlings in 2 gallon pots. I'm always interested in how people utilize that space, and what seems to work for them. At this point I'm only doing one indoor and one outdoor run per year, so I need to make them both count.


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## 1shaggyDude (Nov 5, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Hey what kinda sips are you using, killer grow buddy


Thank you. I used earthboxes. Your posts using yours were super helpful. Pretty much copied your setup, only difference was I used big rootz instead of ff and a different brand tomato fert in my trenches.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 5, 2019)

1shaggyDude said:


> Thank you. I used earthboxes. Your posts using yours were super helpful. Pretty much copied your setup, only difference was I used big rootz instead of ff and a different brand tomato fert in my trenches.


radical ,, to think i actually helped someone,,, hahaha,, no really you did an awesome grow


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## 1shaggyDude (Nov 5, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> Very nice! I've probably done a half dozen grows in my 3x3, everything from one GG4 in a sip to 9 seedlings in 2 gallon pots. I'm always interested in how people utilize that space, and what seems to work for them. At this point I'm only doing one indoor and one outdoor run per year, so I need to make them both count.


I have been an outdoor guy for years. Can't beat the huge yields and free lighting. This was actually my first indoor run. I lost crops 2 years in a row because of fusarium in our new yard. I'm debating wether or not to try an outdoor sip next year. From what i have read it will get them anyway, and i hate watching them slowly die. Thanks to all you awesome sippers tossing out all this info my stash will stay full even if i am forever banished to my tent.


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## Humanrob (Nov 5, 2019)

1shaggyDude said:


> I have been an outdoor guy for years. Can't beat the huge yields and free lighting. This was actually my first indoor run. I lost crops 2 years in a row because of fusarium in our new yard. I'm debating wether or not to try an outdoor sip next year. From what i have read it will get them anyway, and i hate watching them slowly die. Thanks to all you awesome sippers tossing out all this info my stash will stay full even if i am forever banished to my tent.


I'll admit, I had to look up "fusarium", but I didn't spend enough time on it to find out what farmers are doing to combat it. How did you get that diagnosis? I thought I had it bad with bud rot and worms, but it sounds like that one is a show stopper. 

It looks like you have a good handle on indoor growing, so at least you have that.


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## 1shaggyDude (Nov 6, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> I'll admit, I had to look up "fusarium", but I didn't spend enough time on it to find out what farmers are doing to combat it. How did you get that diagnosis? I thought I had it bad with bud rot and worms, but it sounds like that one is a show stopper.
> 
> It looks like you have a good handle on indoor growing, so at least you have that.


We haven't figured out if it is fusarium or verticillium. They both cause the same issues. They infect the interior of the stems and choke off the vascular system. The spores can stay dormant in the ground for years before finding a host. So yeah, pretty much game over outside. It even took out all our veggie garden except one jalapeño plant that must have a resistance. I pray to the weed gods it doesn't find it's way inside somehow. Nasty stuff for sure, and basically untreatable once infected.


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## Humanrob (Nov 6, 2019)

1shaggyDude said:


> We haven't figured out if it is fusarium or verticillium. They both cause the same issues. They infect the interior of the stems and choke off the vascular system. The spores can stay dormant in the ground for years before finding a host. So yeah, pretty much game over outside. It even took out all our veggie garden except one jalapeño plant that must have a resistance. I pray to the weed gods it doesn't find it's way inside somehow. Nasty stuff for sure, and basically untreatable once infected.


that sucks dude, what part of the world are you in?


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## Tim Fox (Nov 7, 2019)

clones are coming along, i am heading to the coast for 3 days this weekend, getting them stablized before i leave, working at upping the light power, and getting the temps up from 72 to around 76 ,


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## Tim Fox (Nov 8, 2019)

Alright, the clones are coming along, no rest for the wicked, They both got Super Cropped today, and then I applied some LST bondage to both,,,, both plants had been topped once and had 2 mains,, you can see them layed over forming a Y now, I LST;ed the rest of the branches, and everything is level, Heading to the coast for 3 days, when i get back i might lay the scrog screen on and start tucking, but who knows, i change my mind daily hahaha,, Happy Growing, Ill post a pic later today when the leaves have all turned back upright ,,, BuuuYaaa,, my growing style forever changed after i did that mainline grow,,


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## Tennesseee (Nov 10, 2019)

What kind of covering are all of you using on your sips? I'm tired of these flimsy plastic things that they ship with them. I have 3 sips running right now. One plant is about to be chopped and just flipped the other 2 into flower.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 11, 2019)

Tennesseee said:


> What kind of covering are all of you using on your sips? I'm tired of these flimsy plastic things that they ship with them. I have 3 sips running right now. One plant is about to be chopped and just flipped the other 2 into flower.


This run I am using an ordinary black hefty garbage bag,


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## Tennesseee (Nov 11, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> This run I am using an ordinary black hefty garbage bag,


Thanks! I was thinking about that exact same thing. Glad to know I'm not the only one who was thinking that!


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## Tim Fox (Nov 11, 2019)

Tennesseee said:


> Thanks! I was thinking about that exact same thing. Glad to know I'm not the only one who was thinking that!


yup, it fit really well to, and i just cliped it around the edges,,, i wasnt about to buy more of those stretchy things from earthbox,,

got home from the beach,, 3 days later and my plants are looking great after thier super cropping,, spreading out,, now i am going to do some more bending on them tonight


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## Tennesseee (Nov 11, 2019)

I think this Northern Lights is getting the chop tonight.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 11, 2019)

Tennesseee said:


> I think this Northern Lights is getting the chop tonight.


looks great,, are those quantum boards


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## Tennesseee (Nov 11, 2019)

The back light is an ES 180 and the front one is an HLG 135w QB.


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## NewGrower2011 (Nov 17, 2019)

So I'm in the midst of making some mini-sips for keeping moms. I was looking at the materials on hand for wicks and have a couple spools of polypropylene olefin cord. Wondering if it's a 'safe' type of material and if it would do well with wicking. I was considering wrapping some around the corrugated pipe pieces I'm using for the rez/bottom and then coco/perlite for the contact with wicks.

May skip the extra rope/wick entirely and just use pure coco to squeeze between the pipes and give a small top-layer to then rest things atop.


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## NewGrower2011 (Nov 18, 2019)

Skipped the rope, packed a thin bed of coco then laid the pipes atop ensuring I packed the voids between the two and walls then layered another inch or so bed of coco. Then threw large chunky perlite on the top and nested the smart pot (3g) on top through the lid opening. Not the usual OCD level of work I'd do, rough cuts a little sloppy- but I think it'll work exceptionally well. 

One of my biggest 'fails' is watering as I'm trying to not require any pumps (air or water) and I've let my moms/clones get wilty more than once (actually way too many times). Given what SIPs did for my last run flowering, I think they'll do well as mom-keepers. I also left a good couple inches atop of the smart pot to let me top it down the road with some fresh soil/amendments to keep her going for as long as possible. Probably good practice to rotate moms after a couple times anyhow and being in cloth pots root pruning techniques leave something to be desired.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 20, 2019)

crazy ninja training continues,, 3 1/2 weeks veg from clone,


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## Tstat (Nov 22, 2019)

My Bag Of Oranges is ready for the chop. I'd say this was really good SIP grow. Plant was a beast:

And pretty damn frosty:


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## Tim Fox (Nov 23, 2019)

Tstat said:


> My Bag Of Oranges is ready for the chop. I'd say this was really good SIP grow. Plant was a beast:
> View attachment 4425165
> And pretty damn frosty:
> View attachment 4425166


hey thats the sip they sale at home depot right?


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## Tim Fox (Nov 23, 2019)

this monday will be 4 weeks veg since planting the little clones in the growbox sip
my exhaust fan broke for 1-2 days, and wow i didnt cook my plants, even the passive cooled cobs were just fine,, thank goodness for the LED or it would have been a BBQ,, sorrted the fan to the variac speed controller,, has a few dead spots on the dail,, its 5 years old, so , its working ok , just need to check that fan every time i am at the grow box, 
the dogwalker is getting its correct color back now that the temps and humidity are back on spot,, 
going to veg for probably another week
pics


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## Tstat (Nov 23, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> hey thats the sip they sale at home depot right?


Bought them at Lowe’s. City Picker I think it’s called.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 23, 2019)

Tstat said:


> Bought them at Lowe’s. City Picker I think it’s called.


Yup I even took a look at them myself they are pretty cool


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## Tim Fox (Nov 26, 2019)

4 weeks of veg, screen going on , a few more days of veg to go before flip


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## Tim Fox (Nov 28, 2019)

Happy Thanksgiving everyone


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## NewGrower2011 (Nov 28, 2019)

Interesting progress update on my latest run. Started with 6 plants that had been sitting in 1 gals from clones for way too long. But thought they'd have good well establish root balls (bordering root bound) and do well when dropped in the SIP(s). Then I had some clones straight from the clone machine for the same strain and its 'sister' genetics. Those too had sat in cloner for a bit too long and were plump stems and had their roots even trimmed once or twice.

My bet was the established ones would grab ahold and rock compares to the newer clones going straight from clone machine to soil.

So first 2 days I thought fore sure clones were gonna die; Wilty and definitely stressed by the transition. The ones that had been in 1gal soil pots didn't show any signs of issue.

Fast forward two weeks and I sort of wish I had thrown out the ones that were from the 1gal pots. They're pathetic compared to the ones that went straight from cloner to SIP/soil. No comparison at all. Giant fat stems on the onces from the cloner and the pre-established ones just don't have that vigor. 

Totally surprised me; Opposite of what I expected.

Now I've finally put my 'shower caps' on and did a top dressing of 2cup of fresh ground malted barley then watered in with activated EM and have a nice white fuzz layer going. I just draped multiple heavy black trash bags over/between the plants and let them drape over the edges and overlap one another.


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## raggyb (Nov 28, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Happy Thanksgiving everyone


Put some weed in the stuffing, Brah!


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## raggyb (Nov 28, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> Interesting progress update on my latest run. Started with 6 plants that had been sitting in 1 gals from clones for way too long. But thought they'd have good well establish root balls (bordering root bound) and do well when dropped in the SIP(s). Then I had some clones straight from the clone machine for the same strain and its 'sister' genetics. Those too had sat in cloner for a bit too long and were plump stems and had their roots even trimmed once or twice.
> 
> My bet was the established ones would grab ahold and rock compares to the newer clones going straight from clone machine to soil.
> 
> ...


this is buggin me too. i would rather put the regs right into the sip but that fucked me up because i was wasting sips on males.


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## NewGrower2011 (Nov 28, 2019)

I knew I had known genetics so went straight to SIPs so no male risks for me. But I think I did get stress seeds last time. Runs before that were zero seeds so I'm attributing it to stress. Only Q I still have is are those seeds worth a shit? No hermie traits I think but rather induced by the stress.


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## Imbald (Dec 2, 2019)

Buddies Stardawg in new earthboxes.
Just went 12/12.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 2, 2019)

Imbald said:


> Buddies Stardawg in new earthboxes.
> Just went 12/12.


fantastic, looks really healthy,, gotta love the earthbox sips


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## Tim Fox (Dec 2, 2019)

Imbald said:


> Buddies Stardawg in new earthboxes.
> Just went 12/12.


here is my dogwalker and cookies & cream in my Growbox sip, 1 week flower


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## dubekoms (Dec 2, 2019)

Not exactly a sip but I've playing around with an idea the past week. 

I was thinking of placing a capillary mat on my flood table,angle the table slightly and place a drainage hole in the downward side with a tube going back into a reservoir. In the reservoir I'll run a pump with a tube going to the angled up section of the table and add a simple pvc manifold with regularly spaced holes to water the capillary mat evenly. Water will go from the manifold straight onto the capillary mat and gravity will bring it down the angled table and through the drainage hole and back into the res. I will put the pump on a timer to run a few times during lights on, I don't think over watering will be an issue.

Having a 4x4 exposed wet mat will put too much humidity in the air for me and probably get algae so I was thinking I could tape a large piece of panda film on top of the whole table and cut holes for the pots.

Fabric pots will be placed onto the capillary mat through the holes cut in the panda film. 1 inch of perlite will be placed in the bottom of the pot to act as a barrier so the soil doesn't get waterlogged from directly touching the mat and mulch will be placed on top of the pots to lessen evaporation. I was thinking this method might be good with running lots of clones in smaller pots. I will probably experiment with adding nutrients to the water. If I use nutes I'll run them at low strength and leach the pots every few weeks.

Idk I've been smoking a lot the past week so this might just be another one those dumb stoned ideas but I'm excited to try it out.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 2, 2019)

dubekoms said:


> Not exactly a sip but I've playing around with an idea the past week.
> 
> I was thinking of placing a capillary mat on my flood table,angle the table slightly and place a drainage hole in the downward side with a tube going back into a reservoir. In the reservoir I'll run a pump with a tube going to the angled up section of the table and add a simple pvc manifold with regularly spaced holes to water the capillary mat evenly. Water will go from the manifold straight onto the capillary mat and gravity will bring it down the angled table and through the drainage hole and back into the res. I will put the pump on a timer to run a few times during lights on, I don't think over watering will be an issue.
> 
> ...


not a sip,,, more along the lines of flood drain in your description, I am a pretty big fan of flood drain myself,


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## dubekoms (Dec 2, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> not a sip,,, more along the lines of flood drain in your description, I am a pretty big fan of flood drain myself,


Yeah more like flood and drain. I think I'm gonna scrap the mat idea and just do flood and drain. Probably add 2 in of perlite on bottom of the pots and flood the table with 1 inch of water. Much simpler


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## Tim Fox (Dec 2, 2019)

dubekoms said:


> Yeah more like flood and drain. I think I'm gonna scrap the mat idea and just do flood and drain. Probably add 2 in of perlite on bottom of the pots and flood the table with 1 inch of water. Much simpler


flood drain works amazing, yup just put your res pump on a timer and flood the table a few times per day, let it drain back off, and the roots get air in between,, rock and roll


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## NewGrower2011 (Dec 2, 2019)

Before going with my SIP(s) I was just going to setup living soil smart pots in my old flood & drain setups to basically just be my watering automation. It would definitely help with drawing air into the root ball/pot as things drain so I'd expect it to work very well. I was hung up on if it was top-drip/drain to rez and recirculate or the usual flood & drain type of setup. 

As I studied up a bit more on SIP(s) I loved the fact no pumps required, no air pump vibration/noise to deal with and decided to give it a whirl. If I wanted to push things harder I'd look for the active setup as the related benefits it provides are likely notable (routinely drawing in fresh air to roots has to be a good thing - right?). So for passive it's SIP(s) and for active I'd be all about a big smart pot sitting in flood & drain rig. 

I actually have more Rubbermaid totes sitting for that very purpose - to upgrade my flood & drain setup; Nest the totes just like I've done with the SIP rigs I showed earlier in thread but instead of the big holes for the wick & the aeration screen holes it'd be the 2 simple holes for the fittings.


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## Imbald (Dec 2, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> here is my dogwalker and cookies & cream in my Growbox sip, 1 week flowerView attachment 4430409


Looking real nice. I bet they'll be stretching soon, and be all over that scrog. lol
I'm really anxious to get mine going. My soil is cooking and seedlings started, so shouldn't be to far out. Like you, I'm figuring on two girls in each earthbox, and I have two boxes. Planned on making some sip buckets to try out at the same time. As long as I can find some time.
Can't wait to get started.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 2, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> Before going with my SIP(s) I was just going to setup living soil smart pots in my old flood & drain setups to basically just be my watering automation. It would definitely help with drawing air into the root ball/pot as things drain so I'd expect it to work very well. I was hung up on if it was top-drip/drain to rez and recirculate or the usual flood & drain type of setup.
> 
> As I studied up a bit more on SIP(s) I loved the fact no pumps required, no air pump vibration/noise to deal with and decided to give it a whirl. If I wanted to push things harder I'd look for the active setup as the related benefits it provides are likely notable (routinely drawing in fresh air to roots has to be a good thing - right?). So for passive it's SIP(s) and for active I'd be all about a big smart pot sitting in flood & drain rig.
> 
> I actually have more Rubbermaid totes sitting for that very purpose - to upgrade my flood & drain setup; Nest the totes just like I've done with the SIP rigs I showed earlier in thread but instead of the big holes for the wick & the aeration screen holes it'd be the 2 simple holes for the fittings.


Yup I was going to run an air pump, I got it all set up and then I didn't like the hum, so I was back to passive quiet sip


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## Rocket Soul (Dec 3, 2019)

Has anybody here on the thread ever try to run a PPK, passive plant killer a la delta9??


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## Rocket Soul (Dec 3, 2019)

Rocket Soul said:


> Has anybody here on the thread ever try to run a PPK, passive plant killer a la delta9??


Its basicly a mix between a dutch bucket and a sip: the wick serves both as a safety aspect if top feeding pumps fail and the wick being in contact with the water in the res below helps with removing excess water from the medium by lowering the perched watertable.


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## Imbald (Dec 3, 2019)

Rocket Soul said:


> Its basicly a mix between a dutch bucket and a sip: the wick serves both as a safety aspect if top feeding pumps fail and the wick being in contact with the water in the res below helps with removing excess water from the medium by lowering the perched watertable.


Haven't tried, but it sounds interesting.

I think I'm going to try hooking some sip containers together, and have one res. out of the tent to supply them.
I've already ordered what I need, matter of time to get it rigged.


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## Rocket Soul (Dec 3, 2019)

Under the tent? That is a good idea, it would also allow you control how wet your medium is, the amount of water in the medium is inversely proportional to distance between res water level and your pot. 

It also allows you to clean the res.


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## Imbald (Dec 3, 2019)

Rocket Soul said:


> Under the tent? That is a good idea, it would also allow you control how wet your medium is, the amount of water in the medium is inversely proportional to distance between res water level and your pot.
> 
> It also allows you to clean the res.


It would sit beside the tent. Probably be a 18 gal. tote. The bottom of the reservoir needs to sit slightly higher than the desired water level of the first container in the system. The line from res. hooks to a low-pressure float valve, that automatically tops up and maintains water in your system.
If you wanted to keep under the tent you would probably need to pressurize the res. or use some type of electric pump.


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## Humanrob (Dec 3, 2019)

Imbald said:


> Haven't tried, but it sounds interesting.
> 
> I think I'm going to try hooking some sip containers together, and have one res. out of the tent to supply them.
> I've already ordered what I need, matter of time to get it rigged.


Is there a kit that hooks up the buckets to each other, or is that a DIY thing? I went to the GroBucket website and did not see a "kit" with the rubber grommets, float valve etc. 

I wonder if in the end, its easier to set up and use than say a Blumat system...? I've heard differing opinions on how reliable Blumat's are over time.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 3, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> Is there a kit that hooks up the buckets to each other, or is that a DIY thing? I went to the GroBucket website and did not see a "kit" with the rubber grommets, float valve etc.
> 
> I wonder if in the end, its easier to set up and use than say a Blumat system...? I've heard differing opinions on how reliable Blumat's are over time.


 i think earthbox has a kit for hooking sips together, I think i saw a guy who had a DIY gravity method of using a res and hoses going from each box to the res, and water finds level on its own, ill see if i can find that video,, what i liked about it, was no pumps or timers


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## Tim Fox (Dec 3, 2019)

Imbald said:


> It would sit beside the tent. Probably be a 18 gal. tote. The bottom of the reservoir needs to sit slightly higher than the desired water level of the first container in the system. The line from res. hooks to a low-pressure float valve, that automatically tops up and maintains water in your system.
> If you wanted to keep under the tent you would probably need to pressurize the res. or use some type of electric pump.


this is the SIP Res gravity system


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## 1shaggyDude (Dec 3, 2019)

Earthbox does indeed have an automated watering system. $50 for a 2 box setup and it can be expanded if you have more. I'm not sure if it can run off a resvoir or if it needs to be connected to a faucet.


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## Imbald (Dec 3, 2019)

Humanrob said:


> Is there a kit that hooks up the buckets to each other, or is that a DIY thing? I went to the GroBucket website and did not see a "kit" with the rubber grommets, float valve etc.
> 
> I wonder if in the end, its easier to set up and use than say a Blumat system...? I've heard differing opinions on how reliable Blumat's are over time.


The YouTube video makes it sound like there's a kit. But I did the same thing, went to the website, couldn't find anything.
I like diy anways, and started messing with it today.
I found it all easily enough on Amazon. website easily enough. Using three and a half gallon buckets with 3 inch net pots. Same height as a earth box. Used a cut-out bucket lid and three net pots for bottom.
Just checked and it will hold two and a half gallons of soil and one gallon of water. 

I have used blumats. One run. Didn't perform like I was expecting. Always messing with them to try getting them dialed in. 
Lots of people speak highly of them, and love them, so they must be good. Probably just me. Still have and I will try them again sometime.


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## Humanrob (Dec 3, 2019)

Imbald said:


> The YouTube video makes it sound like there's a kit. But I did the same thing, went to the website, couldn't find anything.
> I like diy anways, and started messing with it today.
> I found it all easily enough on Amazon. website easily enough. Using three and a half gallon buckets with 3 inch net pots. Same height as a earth box. Used a cut-out bucket lid and three net pots for bottom.
> Just checked and it will hold two and a half gallons of soil and one gallon of water.


That's too bad, they should make the kit... but you're right, a few minutes and a couple of searches and the shopping cart is full of all the right parts. Nice work on putting yours together, I look forward to seeing how it goes. 



Imbald said:


> I have used blumats. One run. Didn't perform like I was expecting. Always messing with them to try getting them dialed in.
> Lots of people speak highly of them, and love them, so they must be good. Probably just me. Still have and I will try them again sometime.


I actually bought a Blumats kit, and each time I think I'm going to use it, something comes up. This grow I'm having heat problems and can't start the set of plants I was planning on using it with. Some people love them, but it seems that about as many tried them just one time and were not into it. 

I would love to find a fool-proof automated watering system that does not use pumps or any electricity. Blumats, SIPs with a float valve system, something. It'll be easier if I can give up fabric pots, I love what they do for roots but they add to watering issues.


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## Imbald (Dec 4, 2019)

Loving the growth on Buddies Stardawg in his earthboxes from just 11-31 to 12-3.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 4, 2019)

Imbald said:


> Loving the growth on Buddies Stardawg in his earthboxes from just 11-31 to 12-3.


Very nice


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## Tim Fox (Dec 7, 2019)

9 days flower, dogwalker on the left , cookies and cream on the right


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## myinvisiblecomplication (Dec 10, 2019)

Great thread with lots of good info in it half way through it.


Was thinking of trying a DIY octopot but after reading through their site I don't think a MO/Coots mix no till soil would suit an octopot I could be wrong though.


My space is not big enough for an earthbox or a growbox i have about 50 x 60 to work with and would like to work with soil I have already mixed and amendments I have on hand.


Is it possible to run a no till garden this way with just EM-1 in the resevior? With ocotopot using fabric pot or would it be better to build a SIP system without the fabric pot ? I', also a little lost on the wicking. I would just use the soil mix I have in a net pot right for wicking?


Would you just amended the top like in a regular no till based on MO & coots 11 day feeding? Thats how I run my no till now. But it looks like amendments aren't exactly necessary here or am I not understanding this correctly?


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## raggyb (Dec 10, 2019)

myinvisiblecomplication said:


> Great thread with lots of good info in it half way through it.


chiming in here with my comments, definitely worth reading in it's entirety...



myinvisiblecomplication said:


> Was thinking of trying a DIY octopot but after reading through their site I don't think a MO/Coots mix no till soil would suit an octopot I could be wrong though.


why not, do you mean because no till suggests a very large pot?



myinvisiblecomplication said:


> My space is not big enough for an earthbox or a growbox i have about 50 x 60 to work with and would like to work with soil I have already mixed and amendments I have on hand.


someone with earthbox or growbox experience will chime in hopefully. are you talking inches? what is your headroom?



myinvisiblecomplication said:


> Is it possible to run a no till garden this way with just EM-1 in the resevior? With ocotopot using fabric pot or would it be better to build a SIP system without the fabric pot ? I', also a little lost on the wicking. I would just use the soil mix I have in a net pot right for wicking?


on the wicking, many choices, I use 20% perlite 80% pete which seemed fine. again hope someone with EM1 and no till chimes in. 



myinvisiblecomplication said:


> Would you just amended the top like in a regular no till based on MO & coots 11 day feeding? Thats how I run my no till now. But it looks like amendments aren't exactly necessary here or am I not understanding this correctly?


i do think you want to cover or mulch even though i havent yet. if you did you would have to move the mulch or cover out of the way to feed? you would have to amend in future grows if no till, and a little tough to get that down so you would have to top water but you wouldn't want to too much water to leach into the res unless EM1 takes care of any nutes that get in there somehow. i'm not sure.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 10, 2019)

myinvisiblecomplication said:


> Is it possible to run a no till garden this way with just EM-1 in the resevior? With ocotopot using fabric pot or would it be better to build a SIP system without the fabric pot ? I', also a little lost on the wicking. I would just use the soil mix I have in a net pot right for wicking?


yes, and yes, some people ad things to thier resevoir, i do not, i just pour water in the whole grow, i use a no till soil also, and i put the same soil in my wick, nothing special needed, i dont feel the fabric pot on top is anyway better than the plastic inside of plastic earthbox , type sip, there is no need to get air to the roots in the above container when the air gap in the res gives they hydroponic roots all the air they need, i dont ad any extra perolite to my soil for that same reason, super charge your soil if your doing water only, and your grow can go the whole ride, with your space requirments there are many 10 gallon size plastic storage tubs you could stack 2 inside of each other like the Inntainer plans at the beginnining of this thread, also wick sizing , keep the wick small, its very easy to over soak the soil bed, if using a round longer wick, then fewer holes in the tub,


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## Tim Fox (Dec 10, 2019)

myinvisiblecomplication said:


> Was thinking of trying a DIY octopot but after reading through their site I don't think a MO/Coots mix no till soil would suit an octopot I could be wrong though.


there is a grower on here who uses octopots with great success, but not anymore success compared to the other sips, I do like how octopots have a built in res gauge to see the water level, but there are plenty of ways to get a water level gauge into a DIY sip,


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## raggyb (Dec 10, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> yes, and yes, some people ad things to thier resevoir, i do not, i just pour water in the whole grow, i use a no till soil also, and i put the same soil in my wick, nothing special needed, i dont feel the fabric pot on top is anyway better than the plastic inside of plastic earthbox , type sip, there is no need to get air to the roots in the above container when the air gap in the res gives they hydroponic roots all the air they need, i dont ad any extra perolite to my soil for that same reason, super charge your soil if your doing water only, and your grow can go the whole ride, with your space requirments there are many 10 gallon size plastic storage tubs you could stack 2 inside of each other like the Inntainer plans at the beginnining of this thread, also wick sizing , keep the wick small, its very easy to over soak the soil bed, if using a round longer wick, then fewer holes in the tub,


tim, how do you recharge the soil on the second or third grow? i thought you topdress and water in from the top in no till. but SIP is all watering from the bottom.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 10, 2019)

raggyb said:


> tim, how do you recharge the soil on the second or third grow? i thought you topdress and water in from the top in no till. but SIP is all watering from the bottom.


Most people dump it on the ground and mix in what ever they have been mixing up , compost or worms and toss it back in for the next grow, if a person doesn't want to dump and mix them earth box has videos on YouTube for mixing in dry nutes into trenches , many of us used the trench method earlier I this thread


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## Tim Fox (Dec 10, 2019)

Some people have used teas, but it's easy to over saturate the sip , some people have added nutes to the res, I think octopot talks about this , captain used to ad nutes to his sip res


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## raggyb (Dec 10, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Most people dump it on the ground and mix in what ever they have been mixing up , compost or worms and toss it back in for the next grow, if a person doesn't want to dump and mix them earth box has videos on YouTube for mixing in dry nutes into trenches , many of us used the trench method earlier I this thread


i thought no till means you don't disturb the soil and don't remove the roots just plant right next to the old stem. and maybe EM1 can counteract whatever nutrient leaches into the reservoir to prevent algae and mold. no biggie though.


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## myinvisiblecomplication (Dec 11, 2019)

Hey guys thanks for the replies.

By the sounds of it it's not a true no till type system as you're not able to amend with top dress of amendments. Trenching in amendments will disturb the soil food web and fungi as would dumping and mixing each round but you could do a super soil then I guess, but I like the no fuss of no till and how the soil improves every grow.

An earthbox or growbox dimensions are to big for my space and an octopot is too expensive to buy and ship to where I am. I have fabric pots thats why I was thingking of the octopot. would be pretty easy to buy a small net pot used for growing lettuce and cutting out some of the fabric pot base. I read on their website that soils need to be super lite and I'm not sure a no till is the right medium but what do I know I've never tried it.

I suppose I could folier spray my coconut and aloe waterings or add it to the resevior I'm not sure



> Some people have used teas, but it's easy to over saturate the sip , some people have added nutes to the res, I think octopot talks about this , captain used to ad nutes to his sip res


I prefer not to use bottled nutes and try to avoid chemicals wherever I can. I don't do teas I just top dress dry amendments and water it into the soil nice and simple really. 

From the ocotpot website




> *SOIL* - Always follow the 60/40 Rule! Specifically, use 60% high quality soilless mix with 40% perlite in Octopot Grow Systems. Perlite should be mixed throughout the growing media. Never create layers of perlite inside the Gro Sleeve®.






> *SUPER SOILS* - Super soils can be too heavy and hold too much moisture, limiting air exchange which damages plants causing root rot. Also, nutrients in super soils tend to be used up too early and run out too soon in the growth cycle which starves plants. Super soil may work with Octopots if it has the correct ratio of perlite (40%) and controlled release nutrients.





Again I've never grown in this type of system before and from what I see in the thread the results a re great I'm just trying to take advavtage of better systems but at the same time don't want to waste to much time mucking about with it as I don't have to space to grow multiple plants just a nice single each time.

Will look at the innertub more closely


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## Tim Fox (Dec 11, 2019)

raggyb said:


> i thought no till means you don't disturb the soil and don't remove the roots just plant right next to the old stem. and maybe EM1 can counteract whatever nutrient leaches into the reservoir to prevent algae and mold. no biggie though.


I would say good luck doing true no till in a sip


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## Tim Fox (Dec 11, 2019)

myinvisiblecomplication said:


> Hey guys thanks for the replies.
> 
> By the sounds of it it's not a true no till type system as you're not able to amend with top dress of amendments. Trenching in amendments will disturb the soil food web and fungi as would dumping and mixing each round but you could do a super soil then I guess, but I like the no fuss of no till and how the soil improves every grow.
> 
> ...


I personally am in a big dissageement with the octopot instructions, non of the other sip systems use thier ideas on grow medium , I am using heavy super soil in my current grow with outstanding results, my soil has no added perolite just what was in the ffof my soil is in my wicks and I did not use a trench , I have done this for years, the guy here on rollitup who uses the octopot puts nutes in his res to make up for the loss in soil due to all the perolite they ad to the soil, I don't use bottle nutes and I grow water only the whole grow I put nothing in my res other than water , probably the reason they put so much perolite in the soil is to help make up for all the evaporation that occurs in or through the fabric pot


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## myinvisiblecomplication (Dec 11, 2019)

Yeah I was thinking the same reading through this thread about the tubs vs the octopot naf from asome yt videos that if anything I would only be adding em-1 to the resivior for both nutrients and to keep the water healthy.



Tim Fox said:


> I did not use a trench


So are you dumping the soil every grow and amending then or how are you applying no till methods to SIP?

I don't use perlite either and I mix my own soil from my own compost, ewc etc.. Do you think that mulching and cover crop could replace the plastic cover? I would still need to work out how the top dress would get watered into the soil.

i like the idea of faster growth in the no till.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 11, 2019)

myinvisiblecomplication said:


> Yeah I was thinking the same reading through this thread about the tubs vs the octopot naf from asome yt videos that if anything I would only be adding em-1 to the resivior for both nutrients and to keep the water healthy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't use no till I mix a new batch of super soil every grow , I dump the old grows into my wife's back yard garden


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## Tim Fox (Dec 11, 2019)

here we go, 2 weeks flower, water only super soil, grow box sip, ( like an earthbox), super soil mix, all organic dry mixes, used same soil in wicks, no trenches, 6 cobs on now, temps 77 lights on 65 lights off, venting out the window now so the house doesnt stink, so fun rock n roll


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## raggyb (Dec 11, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> I would say good luck doing true no till in a sip


yeah I think so. the roots from the last plant will be all in the wick and would clog the wick so you at least would have to unclog the wick between grows which would be a pain in the ass with the container full of dirt.


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## myinvisiblecomplication (Dec 11, 2019)

Looking good, Will have to look into it more from a no till way I can be bothered mixing soil all the time I got lazy with the simplicity of no till.

I wish either the earthbox or this growbox fit in my space I would just buy it. DIY is not exactly my thing but it may have to be in this case. There are some around where I am but they are either just to big or they are to small nohting in between really or the resevoir is really small. or they don't hold enough soil.

At this stage I think DIY is my only option

I've also seen a lot of DIY with reses filled with stones or clay balls some even with perlite and the fabric pots sitting on top of them. what do you think of that system? Clay balls and a fabric pot?

OR 
Is it worth trying something in one of these for example https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/ikea-ps-fejoe-self-watering-plant-pot-black-30117188/

or something similar to that?


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## raggyb (Dec 11, 2019)

myinvisiblecomplication said:


> Looking good, Will have to look into it more from a no till way I can be bothered mixing soil all the time I got lazy with the simplicity of no till.
> 
> I wish either the earthbox or this growbox fit in my space I would just buy it. DIY is not exactly my thing but it may have to be in this case. There are some around where I am but they are either just to big or they are to small nohting in between really or the resevoir is really small. or they don't hold enough soil.
> 
> ...


you can make one with a bucket and a lid and a fabric pot on top. its mostly not too hard. need drill, zip ties, scissors, razor blade, hole saw, and paddle bit for the pvc pipe hole. i'm not sure what you are thinking with stuff in the res. you put nothing but water in there.


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## myinvisiblecomplication (Dec 11, 2019)

raggyb said:


> you can make one with a bucket and a lid and a fabric pot on top. its mostly not too hard. need drill, zip ties, scissors, razor blade, hole saw, and paddle bit for the pvc pipe hole. i'm not sure what you are thinking with stuff in the res. you put nothing but water in there.


I've seen other SIP thread on other forums where the fabric pot sits on top of the clayballs and the water level is about an inch below the top of the clay balls where the fabric pot sits

Second picture of OP

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=356985

I'm not sure if the link is allowed or not if not I will delete it


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## Imbald (Dec 12, 2019)

myinvisiblecomplication said:


> Looking good, Will have to look into it more from a no till way I can be bothered mixing soil all the time I got lazy with the simplicity of no till.
> 
> I wish either the earthbox or this growbox fit in my space I would just buy it. DIY is not exactly my thing but it may have to be in this case. There are some around where I am but they are either just to big or they are to small nohting in between really or the resevoir is really small. or they don't hold enough soil.
> 
> ...


I think I would use net pots or even beer/solo cups to support the fabric pot over clay pebbles. Wouldn't take up as much valuable res. space.


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## Imbald (Dec 12, 2019)

raggyb said:


> yeah I think so. the roots from the last plant will be all in the wick and would clog the wick so you at least would have to unclog the wick between grows which would be a pain in the ass with the container full of dirt.


I am not sure, I haven't got that far myself yet...
But I think if you have a very healthy "living" soil, roots on your next grow wouldn't be to much of a problem. But I would probably pull out the biggest chunk of the root ball. I think your micro herd or living organisms in your soil would help take care of the smaller roots.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 12, 2019)

myinvisiblecomplication said:


> Looking good, Will have to look into it more from a no till way I can be bothered mixing soil all the time I got lazy with the simplicity of no till.
> 
> I wish either the earthbox or this growbox fit in my space I would just buy it. DIY is not exactly my thing but it may have to be in this case. There are some around where I am but they are either just to big or they are to small nohting in between really or the resevoir is really small. or they don't hold enough soil.
> 
> ...


have you considered making an earth bucket, would be much better than the ikea pot,,, here check it out


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## Greenthumbs256 (Dec 12, 2019)

Who ever said adding em1 to your rez is not allowed. Your 100% wrong!


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## Greenthumbs256 (Dec 12, 2019)

I'm seeing alot of questions here that I've covered a few times over. If you guys check this out it will answer alot of your questions. 

Dont listen to ppl saying it wont work, or you cant do this and cant do that. Ive proved them all wrong countless times! Everyone told me that my idea and this plan would never work, that I should give it up and throw it away! and now I consistently pull 2 pounds per 4x4! And absolute minimum amount of work, no fertilizer or bottled nutrients! True living recycled organics! Fuck the professionals that know everything. Bc I've been growing for 5 years and putting 20 year growers to shame! Just bc you havent tried it doenst mean it wont work! And if you have tried it maybe you did it wrong or possibly maybe you just suck!





__





GREEN'S PROBIOTIC METHOD


Welcome everyone!!! In this thread I will explain what and how probiotics is/works, and a step by step on how I grow for anyone interested! I'll start off by saying I've never seen any organic method that gives this level of amazing results, with the absolute least amount of work, compared to...



www.rollitup.org


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## myinvisiblecomplication (Dec 12, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> have you considered making an earth bucket, would be much better than the ikea pot,,, here check it out


That looks simple enough I'll take a look and may even be worth trying 1 grow insomething like that that I can make for the cost of a pvc pipe before lookinginot a more permanent solution


Also came across this what do you think? Without the window and adding a fill pipe. I don't reallt want silicone in there









Greenthumbs256 said:


> I'm seeing alot of questions here that I've covered a few times over. If you guys check this out it will answer alot of your questions.
> 
> Dont listen to ppl saying it wont work, or you cant do this and cant do that. Ive proved them all wrong countless times! Everyone told me that my idea and this plan would never work, that I should give it up and throw it away! and now I consistently pull 2 pounds per 4x4! And absolute minimum amount of work, no fertilizer or bottled nutrients! True living recycled organics! Fuck the professionals that know everything. Bc I've been growing for 5 years and putting 20 year growers to shame! Just bc you havent tried it doenst mean it wont work! And if you have tried it maybe you did it wrong or possibly maybe you just suck!
> 
> ...


I'll be sure to take a read.


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## Gemtree (Dec 14, 2019)

One time I just threw plastic in the bottom of a tent and filled it with damp perlite then set 10gal smart pots on top. Easy notill sip.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 14, 2019)

Gemtree said:


> One time I just threw plastic in the bottom of a tent and filled it with damp perlite then set 10gal smart pots on top. Easy notill sip.


No air gap


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## Gemtree (Dec 14, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> No air gap


Yea I rotated them and the roots didn't grow very much out the bottom.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Dec 14, 2019)

Sips are a very simplistic design. You can make them more complicated but bottom line, it needs a place for water to sit, and something to act as a wick to suck up the water into the soil and plant. Not much to it. 

Here's some of the designs I use, I stopped using the ones with the plastic floor, i now use the vermiculite bc the roots can grow right into the reservoir, and wont get blocked.

As you guys can see, its works more then Good enough for me, but I'm always tweaking the design.


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## Gemtree (Dec 14, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> Sips are a very simplistic design. You can make them more complicated but bottom line, it needs a place for water to sit, and something to act as a wick to suck up the water into the soil and plant. Not much to it.
> 
> Here's some of the designs I use, I stopped using the ones with the plastic floor, i now use the vermiculite bc the roots can grow right into the reservoir, and wont get blocked.View attachment 4437163View attachment 4437164View attachment 4437165
> 
> ...


I love your design I read your whole thread a while back just need to save up some funds to get it going. I'm just in straight coco and jacks 321 right now cause it's cheap startup but want to go back to organic sips eventually.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Dec 14, 2019)

Gemtree said:


> I love your design I read your whole thread a while back just need to save up some funds to get it going. I'm just in straight coco and jacks 321 right now cause it's cheap startup but want to go back to organic sips eventually.


To be honest their isnt a cheaper way to grow, once everything purchased. Only things I ever have to buy is em1 and kashi (which can be made) and some basics like kelp, neem, amite, you know the basics for recycling soil. But that's it, and it last for ever! What most ppl spend to run a single cycle, I could prolly run 5-10 cycles! My soil only gets better, and amendments are dirt cheap


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## Gemtree (Dec 14, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> To be honest their isnt a cheaper way to grow, once everything purchased. Only things I ever have to buy is em1 and kashi (which can be made) and some basics like kelp, neem, amite, you know the basics for recycling soil. But that's it, and it last for ever! What most ppl spend to run a single cycle, I could prolly run 5-10 cycles! My soil only gets better, and amendments are dirt cheap


Oh I know it's just that initial purchase I need money for. Mines like 30 bucks a cycle right now but they started charging me for water so multi feed dtw with ro is pretty wasteful for me. Definitely switching over to your style in a couple more rounds.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Dec 14, 2019)

Gemtree said:


> Oh I know it's just that initial purchase I need money for. Mines like 30 bucks a cycle right now but they started charging me for water so multi feed dtw with ro is pretty wasteful for me. Definitely switching over to your style in a couple more rounds.


To be honest with you, before I stumbled onto this I was going to quit. Just too much work and wasnt paying off. Now I couldn't dream of doing anything else.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 15, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> Sips are a very simplistic design. You can make them more complicated but bottom line, it needs a place for water to sit, and something to act as a wick to suck up the water into the soil and plant. Not much to it.
> 
> Here's some of the designs I use, I stopped using the ones with the plastic floor, i now use the vermiculite bc the roots can grow right into the reservoir, and wont get blocked.View attachment 4437163View attachment 4437164View attachment 4437165
> 
> ...


The vermiculite pic reminds me of the hempy buckets


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## Imbald (Dec 15, 2019)

Growmie's earthbox Stardawgs @ 2-1/2 wks. Defoliated some a week ago.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Dec 15, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> The vermiculite pic reminds me of the hempy buckets


It works very well, I've got plants growing roots 6 inches above the soil the dam things are so healthy!


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## Tim Fox (Dec 15, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> It works very well, I've got plants growing roots 6 inches above the soil the dam things are so healthy!View attachment 4437634


I'll take some pics


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## Greenthumbs256 (Dec 15, 2019)

Here's my newest


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## Tim Fox (Dec 15, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> Here's my newest
> View attachment 4437691View attachment 4437692


I love it, I build a very similar fill tube for a sip grow years ago

Hey what brand quantum boards are you running


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## Greenthumbs256 (Dec 15, 2019)

Kingbrite! I'm in love with them, running 4x 240w for my 4x8, thinking about adding in a 5th one for the dead center at 2700k


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## Tim Fox (Dec 16, 2019)

3 weeks flower, trimmed under neath, lots of water roots, raised lights up to 17 inches over tops, 
on cruise control


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## Greenthumbs256 (Dec 16, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> 3 weeks flower, trimmed under neath, lots of water roots, raised lights up to 17 inches over tops,
> on cruise controlView attachment 4438024View attachment 4438025View attachment 4438027View attachment 4438029View attachment 4438030View attachment 4438031


Do you also run em in the rez and kashi up top?


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## Tim Fox (Dec 16, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> Do you also run em in the rez and kashi up top?


nope,, i dont put anything in my res,, just plain tap water ( i am on a well) ,, nothing on top but the plastic cover,, the super soil was mixed up in a wheel barrow and placed in the wicks and soil area,, just plain water in the fill port the whole grow,


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Dec 16, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> View attachment 4438029


To say I am impressed with your water clarity is an understatement! When my sips start smelling, I like to shop vac them out (through the fill hole) and my water looks as bad as it smells. The sips hold 8 gallons and I use activated EM-1.

What is your magic sauce? You say you don't have aeration but damn there must be another trick. Compared to my water, I would drink DRINK from your sips! Granted my plants have been vegging for around 6 months and suffered a time or two with out em1 and they look like they need help...


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## Tim Fox (Dec 16, 2019)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> To say I am impressed with your water clarity is an understatement! When my sips start smelling, I like to shop vac them out (through the fill hole) and my water looks as bad as it smells. The sips hold 8 gallons and I use activated EM-1.
> 
> What is your magic sauce? You say you don't have aeration but damn there must be another trick. Compared to my water, I would drink DRINK from your sips! Granted my plants have been vegging for around 6 months and suffered a time or two with out em1 and they look like they need help...
> 
> View attachment 4438150


LOL @ magic sauce, you got me man, I load up the sip with my super soil mix ( varies but usually fox farms ocean forrest with some dry amendments mixed in) dampen the soil as your loading it up, cover with plastic , put the plants in, and fill the res,, and then go to the bathroom sink , fill the watering can with well water , walk back to the grow box and top off the Res when needed, I usually let it get about half or better empty before adding more, lately they drink about half the res per day, and its a 4 gallon res, you can see air stones in my res picture, but i didnt like how the air pump sounded so i didnt run the air stones but they are too big to pull thru the fill port on the SIP, so they are just laying in there for this grow, , i have done this on every grow for several years,, sometimes i have added cal mag to the res, but my soil has enough mixed in that they havent needed any thing but water, the


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## NewGrower2011 (Dec 18, 2019)

My SIPs had a definite funky smell after last run even with running EM in there. This time around I'm trying to decide at what strength that EM should be for my rez which if filled all the way was several gallons iirc - but I normally just refresh with 2 gallons at a time here & there when I remember to check with my dipstick. Last time I topped off with 2 gal I used a full cup of activated EM but wasn't sure really how strong that would be given the bottom feed/wicking nature and the goal being both plant health/benefits and knocking down any funky odors.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Dec 18, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> My SIPs had a definite funky smell after last run even with running EM in there. This time around I'm trying to decide at what strength that EM should be for my rez which if filled all the way was several gallons iirc - but I normally just refresh with 2 gallons at a time here & there when I remember to check with my dipstick. Last time I topped off with 2 gal I used a full cup of activated EM but wasn't sure really how strong that would be given the bottom feed/wicking nature and the goal being both plant health/benefits and knocking down any funky odors.


My 30g can hold around 8 gallons of water, I like to add around 3/4 of a solo cup.

The way I tell if I need more or less, is by looking at my "sight gage" that shows my water level and looking at the color

And yea it can stink, but if your doing it right, it's more than worth it


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## Imbald (Dec 19, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> My 30g can hold around 8 gallons of water, I like to add around 3/4 of a solo cup.
> 
> The way I tell if I need more or less, is by looking at my "sight gage" that shows my water level and looking at the color
> 
> And yea it can stink, but if your doing it right, it's more than worth it


So I'd take that as you use approximately 1 oz. of em1 per gallon of water.?.
And I thought I read somewhere on one of your threads you also add extra dolomite lime to your soil medium due to the extra acidity that em1 brings with it.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Dec 19, 2019)

Imbald said:


> So I'd take that as you use approximately 1 oz. of em1 per gallon of water.?.
> And I thought I read somewhere on one of your threads you also add extra dolomite lime to your soil medium due to the extra acidity that em1 brings with it.


Around that yea.

And I use too, not any more, I do add a little extra oyster shell for that same reason but stopped using dol. Lime simply bc of how long it takes to break down


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## Chunky Stool (Dec 19, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> My SIPs had a definite funky smell after last run even with running EM in there. This time around I'm trying to decide at what strength that EM should be for my rez which if filled all the way was several gallons iirc - but I normally just refresh with 2 gallons at a time here & there when I remember to check with my dipstick. Last time I topped off with 2 gal I used a full cup of activated EM but wasn't sure really how strong that would be given the bottom feed/wicking nature and the goal being both plant health/benefits and knocking down any funky odors.


I'm no SIP expert -- but I stayed at a Holiday Inn once! 
(I kill me )

But seriously folks... I've had lots of experience with root rot and GFF always helps. 

Use 1 tsp /gal as a preventative or 2 tsp if you've got problems. 
It will help.


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## Greenthumbs256 (Dec 19, 2019)

Chunky Stool said:


> I'm no SIP expert -- but I stayed at a Holiday Inn once!
> (I kill me )
> 
> But seriously folks... I've had lots of experience with root rot and GFF always helps.
> ...


Since my very first sip I've never had a single problem with this, I honestly cant tell you why, but never once have I had any issue


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 19, 2019)

Wow great to see this thread getting some new life! I have been absent for a while but hoping to get back on very soon here!


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## Tim Fox (Dec 19, 2019)

good to see you around @meangreengrowinmachine


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## Tim Fox (Dec 19, 2019)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> Since my very first sip I've never had a single problem with this, I honestly cant tell you why, but never once have I had any issue


me 2 buddy,, my res is just clean looking water, and i have no idea why its that way,


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## NewGrower2011 (Dec 19, 2019)

That's good to know on the acidifying part, didn't realize that. I did go moderately heavy on my osf this time so hopefully that helps. Next go I might do a tiny bit of gypsum and dolo to refresh things - just need to figure out the balance between the 2 as I've heard of varying ratios. That and get a soil test after this run so I know what I'm working with and what's actually needed. For me I wiped out my N last time completely so this time I'm curious what will be left in the gas tank as I did use neem, karanja, insect frass and alfalfa/feather meal. A good mixture of goodies for N sources.


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## NewGrower2011 (Dec 19, 2019)

I do use that same GFF but being a fungicide I didn't know if it'd impede the good stuff we want. But in the past I do use it here & there preventatively for gnat control primarily. Definitely way better than the watered down variants.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 19, 2019)

Since there has been some talk on here about boards I was wondering if anyone has experience ordering from LED depot. I was looking at the HLG600 but they are currently out of stock looks like they are taking pre orders for them for first week in Jan. safe to pre order or should I just order something from Kingbrite (never done any business on Alibaba so skeptical) and hope for the best?? @Tim Fox @Greenthumbs256


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## Tim Fox (Dec 19, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Since there has been some talk on here about boards I was wondering if anyone has experience ordering from LED depot. I was looking at the HLG600 but they are currently out of stock looks like they are taking pre orders for them for first week in Jan. safe to pre order or should I just order something from Kingbrite (never done any business on Alibaba so skeptical) and hope for the best?? @Tim Fox @Greenthumbs256


Have you looked at the spider Farmer quantum board s they really interest me they use the better Samsung's, and ad ir?


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## Greenthumbs256 (Dec 19, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Since there has been some talk on here about boards I was wondering if anyone has experience ordering from LED depot. I was looking at the HLG600 but they are currently out of stock looks like they are taking pre orders for them for first week in Jan. safe to pre order or should I just order something from Kingbrite (never done any business on Alibaba so skeptical) and hope for the best?? @Tim Fox @Greenthumbs256


I reccomend kingbrite 100%


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## Tim Fox (Dec 19, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Since there has been some talk on here about boards I was wondering if anyone has experience ordering from LED depot. I was looking at the HLG600 but they are currently out of stock looks like they are taking pre orders for them for first week in Jan. safe to pre order or should I just order something from Kingbrite (never done any business on Alibaba so skeptical) and hope for the best?? @Tim Fox @Greenthumbs256


Weren't you using cobs ?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 19, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Weren't you using cobs ?


yeah I have 10 cxb 3590s but seems like it is getting very hard to find those state side ( again I have thought about doing this also via alibaba and king brite). I was going to transition the 10 cobs (and more if needed) into a veg only area.. use my old giant vented hood and 600 watt hps (for now ) for my moms and then use the hlg 600 for a 5x5 ish flower area.. atm I have some bodhi regs (as well as some CDB strains for the wife) just getting up there so I will be waiting picking some moms from them and move them to SIPs.


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## Chunky Stool (Dec 19, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> I do use that same GFF but being a fungicide I didn't know if it'd impede the good stuff we want. But in the past I do use it here & there preventatively for gnat control primarily. Definitely way better than the watered down variants.


I grow hundreds of annuals for my wife & friends/co-workers. Some plants grow faster than others but I treat them all the same. 
In other words, some of them will end up overwatered -- it's inevitable. 

Before I started using GFF as a preventative, I lost ~15% to root rot. 
Now I lose about 5%, but I think those plants just suck and needed to be culled. 

I ain't got time for shitty plants... 

BTW I've heard that cannabis thrives in a mostly bacterial soil, but you've still got to have fungi to break down bone, so IDK for sure. 
Works for me...


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## Tim Fox (Dec 24, 2019)

Merry Christmas everyone


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## Imbald (Dec 25, 2019)

Gromies garden @ 25 and 27 days.

Merry Christmas Everyone!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 25, 2019)

Tim Fox said:


> Merry Christmas everyone


Same to you! And ditto! Happy holidays to all!


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## 1shaggyDude (Dec 25, 2019)

Merry Christmas. My girls seem to be enjoying the holidays, hope yours are too. Buddha Tahoe and Fire OG at 7 weeks.


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## NewGrower2011 (Dec 26, 2019)

So a few weeks into flower and wanting to give the gals a little 'love potion' but finding it hard to get access to do any top-dressing as I have trashbags draped over/interwoven to make my 'rain cap' and with water in the rez they're a bit of a burden to move around (never made my dolly's - doh!).

What could I do by adding to the rez itself? Last time I topped off I added some calmag and fulvic since I was pretty confident those would wick up into the beds and the plants would benefit. Now I'm wondering of the other goodies I have on hand which would work via wicking and which must be watered in/top dressed. I.e. I have some NFTG goodies like Athena's Amina's and their sucrose/dextrose deals. That and some PhotoSynthesis+ I could add a dash of.

What are the do's & do not's for adding to the rez beyond plain RO water. Specifically looking for those 'oh crap don't do that' type of deals - i.e. anything that would make the rez turn nasty/stinky. I do still add some activated EM when I top off so that should help on some fronts.

Otherwise I need to fight moving them around and getting to where I can top-dress; The plants that were the way over-vegged clones don't have much vertical height at all between the covers and the bottom of their canopy so I have to be very cautious about getting anything on the plants and then being able to get those trashbags/raincap back in place.

Thoughts?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 26, 2019)

So I bit the bullet and ordered a rapid led cxb 3590 cob kit for a 5x5 12 cobs mmmm this thing should do some great work! Will then be using my current 2 bars (5 cobs of the same variety each) for vegging. Then maybe will use my 600 watt hps for moms until I can finally replace that with all leds as well. Pics are just little veggies that need to be sexed still but will get some in soon! Happy SIPing folks!


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## Imbald (Dec 28, 2019)

NewGrower2011 said:


> So a few weeks into flower and wanting to give the gals a little 'love potion' but finding it hard to get access to do any top-dressing as I have trashbags draped over/interwoven to make my 'rain cap' and with water in the rez they're a bit of a burden to move around (never made my dolly's - doh!).
> 
> What could I do by adding to the rez itself? Last time I topped off I added some calmag and fulvic since I was pretty confident those would wick up into the beds and the plants would benefit. Now I'm wondering of the other goodies I have on hand which would work via wicking and which must be watered in/top dressed. I.e. I have some NFTG goodies like Athena's Amina's and their sucrose/dextrose deals. That and some PhotoSynthesis+ I could add a dash of.
> 
> ...


That's a very good question that I've been curious about myself.
So much so that I recently emailed Build-a-soil the question.



"I have a question hopefully you can help me with.
I am growing with sub irrigated planters. (Sips) and was considering adding Thrive.N - Organic Amino Acid to my reservoir. Would it cause problems with my reservoir or does it need to be added to the top of the soil?
Thanks, *****"

"Good morning *****,
Zach B. here with B.A.S. You do not want to add anything to your reservoir, aside from EM-1 or EM-5. To utilize feed products like that, or even aerated compost teas, you will need to water from the top, and/or foliar feed. Adding things to the reservoir will cause undesirable anaerobic conditions with those inputs.

Thank you for contacting us and choosing BuildASoil. Please don't hesitate to reply to this email, or give us a call at 855-877-764 if we can be of any further assistance. Happy Holidays to you and yours!!"


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 28, 2019)

I have some soil cooking (mainly old soil i am just trying to re fertilize and bring back the bioactivity) but it will be a while... I still have sips full from my last run..... I have a bunch of un sexed "moms" (well the females will be) that I want to up pot to SIPs soon... should I A. re amend the sips as the stand and just up pot the moms. or B. get some kind of pre made organic soil and use that for the time being and re amend and re cook the soil from my SIPs? (what organic soil would anyone recommend?) or C. other option you recommend? What do you all think?? thanks!


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## Imbald (Dec 28, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I have some soil cooking (mainly old soil i am just trying to re fertilize and bring back the bioactivity) but it will be a while... I still have sips full from my last run..... I have a bunch of un sexed "moms" (well the females will be) that I want to up pot to SIPs soon... should I A. re amend the sips as the stand and just up pot the moms. or B. get some kind of pre made organic soil and use that for the time being and re amend and re cook the soil from my SIPs? (what organic soil would anyone recommend?) or C. other option you recommend? What do you all think?? thanks!


Whether you choose option A or B, I think the sooner you get it wet the better off you'll be. Giving the micro herd as much of a jump that you can.

A) Has you your soil in the sips dried out or still wet? If it's been wet since last harvest I'd think it still may be living or have some life.?.
I'd probably re-amend it some and roll with it. Add something like 1-1/2 cups per cu ft. of new amendments. I just picked up some Down To Earth Bio-Live 5-4-2 that I can't wait to try out. Or you can just add some things like Crab, kelp, neem/karanja.
If its dried out, it would be similar to starting out with bagged soil, but needing some amendments for sure.


B) In bagged soil I've always used FFOF. I like it and have used it right out of the bag with success. More lately, I have lightly added to it some. Can't go wrong adding Bu's compost, worm castings, pumice or perlite. 

I'm not saying there's not other good mixes out there. Heard good things on Roots organic, and M3 mix to name a few.

Just some ideas. I've been growing in soil for a while, but fairly new to the sips. Others here have more experience with that and hopefully chime in. I'm sure you'll do well which ever route you take.
The sips just make it easier.
Happy growing!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 30, 2019)

Imbald said:


> Whether you choose option A or B, I think the sooner you get it wet the better off you'll be. Giving the micro herd as much of a jump that you can.
> 
> A) Has you your soil in the sips dried out or still wet? If it's been wet since last harvest I'd think it still may be living or have some life.?.
> I'd probably re-amend it some and roll with it. Add something like 1-1/2 cups per cu ft. of new amendments. I just picked up some Down To Earth Bio-Live 5-4-2 that I can't wait to try out. Or you can just add some things like Crab, kelp, neem/karanja.
> ...


Thanks for the reply!


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## NewGrower2011 (Dec 30, 2019)

I figured that might be the case. I used some Fulvic, Cal/Mag, PhotoSynthesis + and a large activated EM dose this last time. The one other goodie I was really on the fence about using was whether to include some Athena's Aminas & Aphrodites Extract which I did include. We'll see how bad it gets - if it does at all. Fingers crossed.

Next time around I'm going to lay down some type of drip system under the 'shower cap' to make this type of supplemental feeding far easier; Actually for both dry/top-dress and liquid love.


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## NewGrower2011 (Dec 30, 2019)

@meangreengrowinmachine I'd also evaluate the NFTG soil offerings - looks pretty promising and the standards they (claim) to self-impose on how they make both their soil and coco seems to be promising. Their #4 soil is something I've bought and examined and looks pretty good to me. 

I'd consider a variant of both A & B -- buy some #4 for the goodies it brings to the mix and as a 'refresher' -- then amend lightly to get things to a modest 'super soil' level and let it cook. 

I'd definitely do a soil test if playing around with re-amending so you aren't flying blind. A 'before' test will tell you what you need to be adding and if you can afford to I'd do a before/after to make sure it's not too hot afterwards.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 31, 2019)

Imbald said:


> Whether you choose option A or B, I think the sooner you get it wet the better off you'll be. Giving the micro herd as much of a jump that you can.
> 
> A) Has you your soil in the sips dried out or still wet? If it's been wet since last harvest I'd think it still may be living or have some life.?.
> I'd probably re-amend it some and roll with it. Add something like 1-1/2 cups per cu ft. of new amendments. I just picked up some Down To Earth Bio-Live 5-4-2 that I can't wait to try out. Or you can just add some things like Crab, kelp, neem/karanja.
> ...


Some has dried up but most of them it seems are still moist.... they have however all been in my rather cool basement not freezing by any means.. maybe 50ish degrees I guess? My mix is rather diverse I make my own soil using different locally sourced compostes manure including from some of my own animals, pete moss base, worn castings, and all the usual amendments (kelp, neem meal, alfalfa, azomite, crab meal, some glacial rock dust for trace, organic tomato tone... etc..) I was looking at a soil testing kit review and the one that folks were saying is the best or really onle home use one worth anything is the ...LaMotte Garden Kit... what do you think worth the investment? It doesnt seem to test for trace elements just the big three. Thanks again!!


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## Imbald (Dec 31, 2019)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Some has dried up but most of them it seems are still moist.... they have however all been in my rather cool basement not freezing by any means.. maybe 50ish degrees I guess? My mix is rather diverse I make my own soil using different locally sourced compostes manure including from some of my own animals, pete moss base, worn castings, and all the usual amendments (kelp, neem meal, alfalfa, azomite, crab meal, some glacial rock dust for trace, organic tomato tone... etc..) I was looking at a soil testing kit review and the one that folks were saying is the best or really onle home use one worth anything is the ...LaMotte Garden Kit... what do you think worth the investment? It doesnt seem to test for trace elements just the big three. Thanks again!!


I've just recently started reusing my soils. No soil testing done here. Not saying I won't or wouldn't. I'm just going by what I've read on re-amending used soil, since I do quite a bit of reading. So I guess you could say I'm just winging it. I'm just playing around in a 4 x 4; and honestly, not that dependent on one grow if it does go south. I have enough stash from previous grows. I'd just start over, but with fresh media; couldn't have two busts in a row. lol

I think when you reuse it more than once or twice is when testing would be wise. By then, things could easily start getting out of balance.

I looked up the Lamotte Soil Test Kit. Like you said, it just checks for N-P-K and ph.
IDK. Seems a little pricey for just that.

I've seen some on these forums send out soil samples to Logan Labs for testing. They say it runs about $45 for there basic. Couple guys posted there chart or graph they got back, it looked pretty thorough. 
Cal, mag, the micros. They have a website, think they're in Ohio. 
I see Build-a-soil also uses them.
I may get to that point in the future. I'll see what happens the next couple runs.
I have one started now in recycled soil, so far it's looking good. But it's early, and it seems like deficiencies rear there ugly head in flower.

Yea, I'm not sure how the soil micro life would be in your old sips. I know I've read that life in soil slows with cooler temps. But how much , and what temps?? 
It may give you a little jump start with a living soil.

I wouldn't be scared of it. lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 1, 2020)

20 food grade five gallon buckets and PVC purchased! Making 10, five gallon SIPs for these unsexed plants. Going to use the soil I have from the older SIPs and just re amend and roll with it since it is just vegging for now. Will get some pics up in the next few days!


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## Imbald (Jan 1, 2020)

Just finished up mine.
I went with 3.5 gal. thinking they'll work ok with short veg.
Put a main rez. outide tent.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 1, 2020)

Imbald said:


> Just finished up mine.
> I went with 3.5 gal. thinking they'll work ok with short veg.
> Put a main rez. outide tent.
> View attachment 4447739View attachment 4447740


Dude fantastic, with external res it's perfect, makes up for the small res that buckets offer


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## Imbald (Jan 2, 2020)

Tim Fox said:


> Dude fantastic, with external res it's perfect, makes up for the small res that buckets offer


Thanks. That was my thinking on the 3.5 gals. I would of needed at least 5 gal. If no external rez.
I still put fill tubes in, just in case, and drilled holes in tubes above water level for air ventilation. Actually used fill tubes yesterday to add add a little Pro-tekt instead of putting in main rez.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 2, 2020)

Imbald said:


> Just finished up mine.
> I went with 3.5 gal. thinking they'll work ok with short veg.
> Put a main rez. outide tent.
> View attachment 4447739View attachment 4447740


Looks like you have them being auto filled also that's awesome! I want to make something like that float level indicator too! Nice job!!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 2, 2020)

I'm wondering when looking at my buckets... if I use my net pot as the only thing holding up my soil I'm concerned about collapse. What do you folks suggest?


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## Imbald (Jan 2, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I'm wondering when looking at my buckets... if I use my net pot as the only thing holding up my soil I'm concerned about collapse. What do you folks suggest?


I used four under the cutout lid for support + one in the center for the wick. Seemed pretty solid.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 2, 2020)

Imbald said:


> I used four under the cutout lid for support + one in the center for the wick. Seemed pretty solid.


You mean just extra net pots? I suppose then you are not taking up water space in the rez... hmm I would have to order more net pots... but that is a good idea! Thanks!


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## Imbald (Jan 2, 2020)

Correct. pic shows 3, but settled on 4, for more rigidity. Also flipped them over.
That gives you about 1 gallon of water in the bucket. If you want more, you would want to use something taller. But using a main reservoir outside the tent, that wasn't a concern.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 2, 2020)

Imbald said:


> Correct. pic shows 3, but settled on 4, for more rigidity. Also flipped them over.
> That gives you about 1 gallon of water in the bucket. If you want more, you would want to use something taller. But using a main reservoir outside the tent, that wasn't a concern.


What size net pots are those?


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## Tim Fox (Jan 2, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> You mean just extra net pots? I suppose then you are not taking up water space in the rez... hmm I would have to order more net pots... but that is a good idea! Thanks!


I used large PVC pipe I cut to length and drilled holes in the pipes to support the soil in the res , it's what I had laying around


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 2, 2020)

Tim Fox said:


> I used large PVC pipe I cut to length and drilled holes in the pipes to support the soil in the res , it's what I had laying around


Ha! That is exactly what I am looking at now... do I have enough to make all of these lol


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## Tim Fox (Jan 3, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Ha! That is exactly what I am looking at now... do I have enough to make all of these lol


Here is how I support the floor in my earth box this could be easily done in ry buckets then you can run 1 net pot , the slots allow water inor out


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 3, 2020)

Tim Fox said:


> Here is how I support the floor in my earth box this could be easily done in ry buckets then you can run 1 net pot , the slots allow water inor outView attachment 4449020View attachment 4449021


I was wondering if I should do holes or if something like that cut out of the bottom would be better! Thanks man!


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## Tim Fox (Jan 3, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I was wondering if I should do holes or if something like that cut out of the bottom would be better! Thanks man!


Either will work fine , I just happens to have the saw in my hand right after I cut them to length


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## Tim Fox (Jan 4, 2020)

res is still nice and clean,, water only the whole grow,


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## Tim Fox (Jan 4, 2020)

coming up on 6 weeks flower,, grow has been on auto pilot for weeks,, no bugs, no mold no rot , nothing,, just water only the whole ride,, about 2.5 weeks to go,, dog walker is starting to amber on the buds,, all colors are getting very pretty,, 
I am not seeing that it was worth spending 80 bucks on soil amendments,, the grow looks the same to me as my previous grows ,, my previous grows were simply FFOF and tomato dry ferts mixed in,, i do like how i didnt have to ad cal mag this grow,, so something in my amendments covered that,, probably the lyme, any how,, a few pics, i did a big trim today


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 4, 2020)

5 done 5 to go! The five moved are thunder wookie by bodhi the others are a cdb strain by green bodhi. Hopefully mostly ladies!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 4, 2020)

Pay no mind to my dirty room atm lol need to do some cleaning and re painting soon.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 4, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Pay no mind to my dirty room atm lol need to do some cleaning and re painting soon.


well phone died back is killing me but got nine potted before I ran out of soil. I decided to take all my old SIP soil add it to a tub and as I filled these SIPs I mixed in my organic "nute**" mix and some fresh rabbit castings from my bunny cage. about 3 shots glasses worth per five gallon SIP and about a handful of rabbit castings. Now tomorrow I need to put together another COB bar like the one that is above them now so I will have ten cobs in there with just moms... for now... then I need to put together the new TWELVE cob rig I just got from Rapid LED! Then we are ON OUR WAY! have a great weekend all!


**
kelp meal 6 cups
epsoma tomato tone 3 cups
alfalfa meal 3 cups
neem meal 3 cups
crab meal 3 cups
finely ground egg shells about 3 cups
azomite about a cup


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 8, 2020)

Got 5 more cobs onto a frame and all the hopefully ladies are moved now just waiting for them to bounce back a bit. Ended up buying a bag of ocean forest as I ran our of soil for the last 2. Got some em1 expanding now I will add to the rez and top dress with some wheat bran soon. Once they are ready I will try to take some clones flower them and go from there with who's a lady. 12 more cobs to get together and on a frame. Those ones will be more diy then I have done in the past (timber just sends the cob already on the heat sink). Hope everyone's rooms are going strong!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 8, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Got 5 more cobs onto a frame and all the hopefully ladies are moved now just waiting for them to bounce back a bit. Ended up buying a bag of ocean forest as I ran our of soil for the last 2. Got some em1 expanding now I will add to the rez and top dress with some wheat bran soon. Once they are ready I will try to take some clones flower them and go from there with who's a lady. 12 more cobs to get together and on a frame. Those ones will be more diy then I have done in the past (timber just sends the cob already on the heat sink). Hope everyone's rooms are going strong!


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## Tim Fox (Jan 8, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> View attachment 4452379View attachment 4452380


dude, your down right kicking ass,, I tip my hat


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 8, 2020)

Tim Fox said:


> dude, your down right kicking ass,, I tip my hat


i feel like there is something wrong.. maybe it is just transplant shock and I need to wait a few days... I hope I didn't make my wicks too big  but thanks for the kudos man! Means a lot coming from you as i have drooled over the buds you have posted on here many a time my friend!!!


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## Tim Fox (Jan 8, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> i feel like there is something wrong.. maybe it is just transplant shock and I need to wait a few days... I hope I didn't make my wicks too big  but thanks for the kudos man! Means a lot coming from you as i have drooled over the buds you have posted on here many a time my friend!!!


Depending on how much you wet down your soil as you loaded it and depending on how much water you put on the top , along with transplant, they do and will droop, and they probably will for a few days sl while everything adjusts , ride it out, trust the sip


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## Tim Fox (Jan 8, 2020)

I forgot to ad , mine do that Everytime


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 8, 2020)

Tim Fox said:


> Depending on how much you wet down your soil as you loaded it and depending on how much water you put on the top , along with transplant, they do and will droop, and they probably will for a few days sl while everything adjusts , ride it out, trust the sip


thanks for the reassurance man!!


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## Tim Fox (Jan 13, 2020)

coming up on week 7 flower, another leaf trim,, my dog walker is recovering nice from a slight bleaching ( had my cobs turned up too hot for her),, but @Humanrob caught it for me, and allot of green has retuned to the leaves, and the buds are looking good, this is just the way i need to keep growing going forward, simple small grows, they supply me with more than i can smoke, its been fun being in a sip again, it takes all the watering out of the equation, and with this being a water only grow, its been a real simple grow, and thats just what i need , most days i just ad water and close the door till the next day


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 13, 2020)

Tim Fox said:


> coming up on week 7 flower, another leaf trim,, my dog walker is recovering nice from a slight bleaching ( had my cobs turned up too hot for her),, but @Humanrob caught it for me, and allot of green has retuned to the leaves, and the buds are looking good, this is just the way i need to keep growing going forward, simple small grows, they supply me with more than i can smoke, its been fun being in a sip again, it takes all the watering out of the equation, and with this being a water only grow, its been a real simple grow, and thats just what i need , most days i just ad water and close the door till the next dayView attachment 4455610View attachment 4455611View attachment 4455612View attachment 4455613View attachment 4455614View attachment 4455615View attachment 4455616View attachment 4455617View attachment 4455618


Looking amazing as usual man!! Keep up the great work!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 13, 2020)

SUCCESS! got this put together and all working...now just need to get it on the frame and hung and all set for flowering! Out of curiosity gas anyone used the rapid led frame and know how to stop the cobs from moving all over on the rails lol. It's a cool feature to be able to move and focus.each cob... but makes moving them around kind of a pain. I guess once it's in the flower room it should not be going anywhere else.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 13, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> SUCCESS! got this put together and all working...now just need to get it on the frame and hung and all set for flowering! Out of curiosity gas anyone used the rapid led frame and know how to stop the cobs from moving all over on the rails lol. It's a cool feature to be able to move and focus.each cob... but makes moving them around kind of a pain. I guess once it's in the flower room it should not be going anywhere else.View attachment 4455821


if your refering to how the heat sinks only have 2 holes to attach to the frame rail, and then the heat sinks can rotate on those screws like a pivot point, then yes, i know exactly what your talking about, also it looks like the rapid led frame is flat stock?,, i see 2 options, if your going to use what you have, you could drill a hole in the frame to the left or right of the heat sink set screw and put in another screw that wedeges against the heat sink forcing it to stop by wedge or friction, or option 2 like me use aluminum angle from home depot and set the angle so the heat sink sits on one side and cant pivot, , but hey go with easy, and get some jam screws going,,, i hope i am not talking out of my &@)@&# hahaha, pretty stoned


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 13, 2020)

Tim Fox said:


> if your refering to how the heat sinks only have 2 holes to attach to the frame rail, and then the heat sinks can rotate on those screws like a pivot point, then yes, i know exactly what your talking about, also it looks like the rapid led frame is flat stock?,, i see 2 options, if your going to use what you have, you could drill a hole in the frame to the left or right of the heat sink set screw and put in another screw that wedeges against the heat sink forcing it to stop by wedge or friction, or option 2 like me use aluminum angle from home depot and set the angle so the heat sink sits on one side and cant pivot, , but hey go with easy, and get some jam screws going,,, i hope i am not talking out of my &@)@&# hahaha, pretty stoned


No I get what you mean and yeah I think jam screws would work best. Just hate to drill into this gorgeously tooled framing lol maybe I will just leave it as is and just have it be clunky going up but more versatile in use. Thanks for the fast reply man!


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## Tim Fox (Jan 13, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> No I get what you mean and yeah I think jam screws would work best. Just hate to drill into this gorgeously tooled framing lol maybe I will just leave it as is and just have it be clunky going up but more versatile in use. Thanks for the fast reply man!


believe it or not ,, i had to tilt my heat sinks on my current grow to help aim the cob beam, i had my cobs too centered, and it helped me to spread the hot spot out,, not that on your frame there is any chance of that with your cobs space nicely apart, i was able to tighten my set screws enough to make them not move unless i put a hand on them


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 14, 2020)

I had mixed up some em1 and molasses and water about a week ago to expand it and today made up some bokashi bran and added it to the top of the SIPs. Also have added some cal mag (always freaking cal mag issues with leds) and some of the expanded em1 to the res. Come on ladies time to take off so I can take a bunch of clones and hopefully not fuck that up this time! Lol


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## smokin away (Jan 16, 2020)

Imbald said:


> I've just recently started reusing my soils. No soil testing done here. Not saying I won't or wouldn't. I'm just going by what I've read on re-amending used soil, since I do quite a bit of reading. So I guess you could say I'm just winging it. I'm just playing around in a 4 x 4; and honestly, not that dependent on one grow if it does go south. I have enough stash from previous grows. I'd just start over, but with fresh media; couldn't have two busts in a row. lol
> 
> I think when you reuse it more than once or twice is when testing would be wise. By then, things could easily start getting out of balance.
> 
> ...


 
I'm still a Novice compared to your set up. Wish I could do that. I'm a closet grower. I always save my soil mix from my last grow. Always wash those clay pebbles before use. My favorite amendment is the roots from the last plants grown in the pot. It adds so much humus. It has whatever was used previously. I never tested it but so far no gnats and everything is so green. I've been using a variety of was left over in the storage. The main ingredient added this year was some organic Miracle Grow Soil in a bag for $6.50. Not much just enough to add a little soil. When I add nutrients I never go over 300 ppm unless needed. Green really green so nice.


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## NewGrower2011 (Jan 18, 2020)

So for those who've had full runs, when you get to last week or two of flower do you do anything to prepare specifically?

I.e. I'm sitting here wondering if I should be trying to get any remaining water out of the rez's to let the girls run a bit dry the last few days. With these SIP deals I've let them go until chop day without really doing anything to stop them from drinking - but was considering it this time. 

I gave them what will be their last watering, only using activated EM and just a dash of fulvic. Game plan being no more, let them run dry and call them ready when they start showing a little wilt. I'm around week 8 and thinking it'll be a 10 week run so the 2 gals per container should hold them over until then.

Just curious of anyone else's final week strategy and if they do anything special for SIPs.


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## Tstat (Jan 21, 2020)

I’ve had mixed results with these. That said I have 2 SIPs with 2 Critical Kush plants in each that are ready to chop. This strain seemed to do really well and yes, I haven’t watered them in a couple weeks. They are still in the flowering room, but moved out from under the lights. 
I’m chopping this week, so I’ll update later.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 21, 2020)

NewGrower2011 said:


> So for those who've had full runs, when you get to last week or two of flower do you do anything to prepare specifically?
> 
> I.e. I'm sitting here wondering if I should be trying to get any remaining water out of the rez's to let the girls run a bit dry the last few days. With these SIP deals I've let them go until chop day without really doing anything to stop them from drinking - but was considering it this time.
> 
> ...


i usually dont do anything differant on previous grows,, i would water and keep the light on 12 12 all the way to chop,,, BUT this time around i am letting the res run out, and let the res sit empty for about 3 days, not that i feel it wil lhelp the plants any,,, i just want the sip to be much lighter in weight when i go to lift it out, it should be about 50 pounds lighter this way, does it benefit the plants any?,, not sure, but thats why i am doing it


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 21, 2020)

Tim Fox said:


> i usually dont do anything differant on previous grows,, i would water and keep the light on 12 12 all the way to chop,,, BUT this time around i am letting the res run out, and let the res sit empty for about 3 days, not that i feel it wil lhelp the plants any,,, i just want the sip to be much lighter in weight when i go to lift it out, it should be about 50 pounds lighter this way, does it benefit the plants any?,, not sure, but thats why i am doing it


I do the same and basically for the same reasons (weight of all that water). I did try a test last go round not super controlled but there did not seem to be any difference in production or dry times or anything really between the SIP that continues to be watered and the one that was left dry.. sooo... I dont think that helps but my experience lol


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## avk210 (Jan 21, 2020)

Water soluble gypsum last 2 weeks of flower
4 gram a gallon


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## Imbald (Jan 21, 2020)

avk210 said:


> Water soluble gypsum last 2 weeks of flower
> 4 gram a gallon


Gypsum has calcium and sulfur. 
Two great amendments.

Adding the last two weeks, I'm sure your going for building terps with the sulfur.
I've read where sulfur = terp city.

I have been adding one c. per cf. pelletized gypsum to my soil mix at the beginning. 
Now you have me wondering if I could benefit by adding more towards the end?


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## avk210 (Jan 21, 2020)

Imbald said:


> Gypsum has calcium and sulfur.
> Two great amendments.
> 
> Adding the last two weeks, I'm sure your going for building terps with the sulfur.
> ...


Yes, soluble gypsum at the end helps mobilize k, which creates harsh smoke. Also helps with shelf life.


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## Chunky Stool (Jan 22, 2020)

avk210 said:


> Yes, soluble gypsum at the end helps mobilize k, which creates harsh smoke. Also helps with shelf life.


Too much P creates harsh smoke, not K.


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## avk210 (Jan 22, 2020)

Chunky Stool said:


> Too much P creates harsh smoke, not K.


Hmmmmm


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## Wizard of Nozs (Jan 23, 2020)

Humanrob said:


> *Sub-irrigated planter*
> _From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia_
> 
> 
> ...



I actually do a similar thing to this in my outdoor grows where I will sit my fabric pots about 3 inches off the ground in a solid raised bed and then flood the table with oxygen rich (from air stones) worm casting/ chicken poo tea. It wicks to the top of the fabric pot by barely touching and gives pretty great results. Like a different take on DWC's.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 24, 2020)

Chop Chop, this was by far the Easiest Grow i have every done, water only the whole ride, never saw any insects or bugs, or creepy crawly things hahah, didnt spray anything on the plants the entire grow, just poured water from my tap into the fill hole, and this happend,, gotta love the sip


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Jan 24, 2020)

I'm calling on my favorite super hero, Captain Save A Sip, if he or she is out there I am need of help. My sips have had a little neglect while I have prepared my grow area. Long story short they have had a rough 8ish months of veg because I was starving them of fresh air for a long time and watering at times was neglected. Recently I came down with a case of thrips and spider mites, lucky me, but it seems like I have been able to battle through them with green cleaner and maybe an application of azamax. I am spraying green cleaner every three days for the last 2 weeks and plan on doing so until I send them to flower and see buds.

The base of my soil is big rootz by Soil King with grow stones added

About two months ago I top coated malibu compost on top

About 2 weeks ago I added fresh worm castings and about 500 wigglers per 27 gallon sip

About a week ago I gave a light top coat with some kelp, oyster shell, and rock dust and planted cover crop which has started...

Captain Save A Sip what should I do?


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## avk210 (Jan 24, 2020)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> I'm calling on my favorite super hero, Captain Save A Sip, if he or she is out there I am need of help. My sips have had a little neglect while I have prepared my grow area. Long story short they have had a rough 8ish months of veg because I was starving them of fresh air for a long time and watering at times was neglected. Recently I came down with a case of thrips and spider mites, lucky me, but it seems like I have been able to battle through them with green cleaner and maybe an application of azamax. I am spraying green cleaner every three days for the last 2 weeks and plan on doing so until I send them to flower and see buds.
> 
> The base of my soil is big rootz by Soil King with grow stones added
> 
> ...


You should prolly pay more attention to your plants. Flower em, see what you get. Or start over and treat em rite.


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## SUNDOG (Jan 30, 2020)

Thought this would be the place to post this.
No sips, just a first time "LAB serum " run. All most done I think? Oh and some tea brewing just for shits and gigs.


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## dubekoms (Feb 1, 2020)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> I'm calling on my favorite super hero, Captain Save A Sip, if he or she is out there I am need of help. My sips have had a little neglect while I have prepared my grow area. Long story short they have had a rough 8ish months of veg because I was starving them of fresh air for a long time and watering at times was neglected. Recently I came down with a case of thrips and spider mites, lucky me, but it seems like I have been able to battle through them with green cleaner and maybe an application of azamax. I am spraying green cleaner every three days for the last 2 weeks and plan on doing so until I send them to flower and see buds.
> 
> The base of my soil is big rootz by Soil King with grow stones added
> 
> ...


Something is seriously wrong with that soil. I would make soil slurry and test the ph.


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## 1shaggyDude (Feb 10, 2020)

Just popped a couple of greenpoints purple canyons (topanga canyon x purple punch) into their sips. Last run was a fire og (dearkheart) and a buddha tahoe og. Ended up with 472 grams!! These sips actually make it look like i know what i'm doing.


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## 1shaggyDude (Feb 10, 2020)

Couple pics from last run. First one is tahoe og the other is the fire og


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## Brandon137 (Feb 19, 2020)

Hello all this is my first time recycling ffof soil so far since last grow I've given them 444 about a cup and a half with the last top dressing being about 3 weeks ago now other than that I haven't given them anything else aside from two waterings with some tm7 im in a 15 gal sip pot and have done some lst
So I'm not sure if my pots are over wicking or deficient or toxic in some form and help is much appreciated. I'm thinking its maybe a magnesium deficiency or potassium toxicity but not sure. Plant seems to wilt top looks a bit yellow and sickly I get the rusty vanes and then the leaves begin to yellow from top to base and curl but dont seem to drop off right away 

Feb 16
Feb 19


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 20, 2020)

Brandon137 said:


> Hello all this is my first time recycling ffof soil so far since last grow I've given them 444 about a cup and a half with the last top dressing being about 3 weeks ago now other than that I haven't given them anything else aside from two waterings with some tm7 im in a 15 gal sip pot and have done some lst
> So I'm not sure if my pots are over wicking or deficient or toxic in some form and help is much appreciated. I'm thinking its maybe a magnesium deficiency or potassium toxicity but not sure. Plant seems to wilt top looks a bit yellow and sickly I get the rusty vanes and then the leaves begin to yellow from top to base and curl but dont seem to drop off right away
> 
> Feb 16View attachment 4483136View attachment 4483137View attachment 4483138
> Feb 19View attachment 4483144View attachment 4483139View attachment 4483142View attachment 4483143View attachment 4483145


Did you get this under control or try maybe the plant problem area? What lighting are you using? Since I have switched to LEDs I cannot get my soil to ever contain enough useable calcium and magnesium and I always supplement the rez water.


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## Brandon137 (Feb 20, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Did you get this under control or try maybe the plant problem area? What lighting are you using? Since I have switched to LEDs I cannot get my soil to ever contain enough useable calcium and magnesium and I always supplement the rez water.


No not yet I've tried adding calmag to rez with no noticeable change so I've cut all cover crop in hopes that it may be over wicking. I'm running a 315w cmh my other plant looks fine it is in about 20g of soil and it seems a bit dryer so I'm hoping it's just over watering issue I'll ride it out and see what happens. This is also my first grow in sip pots I'm still quite new to growing so maybe I just bit of a bit more than I can chew lol


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## raggyb (Feb 22, 2020)

Brandon137 said:


> No not yet I've tried adding calmag to rez with no noticeable change so I've cut all cover crop in hopes that it may be over wicking. I'm running a 315w cmh my other plant looks fine it is in about 20g of soil and it seems a bit dryer so I'm hoping it's just over watering issue I'll ride it out and see what happens. This is also my first grow in sip pots I'm still quite new to growing so maybe I just bit of a bit more than I can chew lol


Keep with it because these SIPs seem pretty easy. It does look like it could be overwatering to me but I havent myself experienced that becuase things are wet as shit in these but they don't seem to mind but I havent been doing this that long. How big is your wick? It looks store bought so again i don't think it would be the wrong size. also wondering are your additives organic?


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## greg nr (Feb 22, 2020)

raggyb said:


> Keep with it because these SIPs seem pretty easy. It does look like it could be overwatering to me but I havent myself experienced that becuase things are wet as shit in these but they don't seem to mind but I havent been doing this that long. How big is your wick? It looks store bought so again i don't think it would be the wrong size. also wondering are your additives organic?


Wet as shit?

Hasn't been my experience. The soil is moist, but not soaked or wet.

I've never had any root issues due to too wet soil.


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## raggyb (Feb 22, 2020)

greg nr said:


> Wet as shit?
> 
> Hasn't been my experience. The soil is moist, but not soaked or wet.
> 
> I've never had any root issues due to too wet soil.


Wet by my standards. Never dries out thats for sure. Mine uses a fabric pot on top and the fab pot does breath which may help with a bigger wick. The outside of the fab pot feels quite moist but not necc all the way to the top. been bubbling the water. The plant grows well.


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## Polyuro (Feb 22, 2020)

How often have u been watering the 20 gal sip? Have u been foliage spraying too?


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## Brandon137 (Feb 23, 2020)

I believe it was a root rot or some type of root issue as the plant came up from the soil with very little pull this is the wick it's a yogurt container that I drilled 1/8" holes into it's about 4 or 5 inches tall and I left a 1" air gap I believe the rez holds about 4 gallons of water if I remember correctly I set them up about a month ago and havent even topped them up since  
Here's her sister in recycled soil as well treated about the same


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## raggyb (Feb 23, 2020)

Brandon137 said:


> I believe it was a root rot or some type of root issue as the plant came up from the soil with very little pull this is the wick it's a yogurt container that I drilled 1/8" holes into it's about 4 or 5 inches tall and I left a 1" air gap I believe the rez holds about 4 gallons of water if I remember correctly I set them up about a month ago and havent even topped them up since View attachment 4486790View attachment 4486791
> Here's her sister in recycled soil as well treated about the same View attachment 4486793


I'm a little confused what's going on, like where is your res? But the cup with only one little hole is not right. I mean it seems like it could work but it's not according to the instructions. You should drill about 200 little holes like that all around the cup. Or better yet get net pots like this for whatever diameter - https://www.amazon.com/inch-Pots-Super-Heavy-Design/dp/B073WJ78MM?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B073WJ78MM

Not sure why it matters but it seems like it lets more air into the wick.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 23, 2020)

raggyb said:


> I'm a little confused what's going on, like where is your res? But the cup with only one little hole is not right. I mean it seems like it could work but it's not according to the instructions. You should drill about 200 little holes like that all around the cup. Or better yet get net pots like this for whatever diameter - https://www.amazon.com/inch-Pots-Super-Heavy-Design/dp/B073WJ78MM?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B073WJ78MM
> 
> Not sure why it matters but it seems like it lets more air into the wick.


More air and more water. I very much second this. I think that might work for a while but I have doubts about long term wicking capabilities.


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## 1shaggyDude (Feb 23, 2020)

I don't see a fill tube. How are you going to fill the rez?


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## Brandon137 (Feb 24, 2020)

Polyuro said:


> How often have u been watering the 20 gal sip? Have u been foliage spraying too?


Yes I was spraying just once and a while


meangreengrowinmachine said:


> More air and more water. I very much second this. I think that might work for a while but I have doubts about long term wicking capabilities.


The wick has tons of holes it's a bin nested in another the 4 containers at corners are just to support the other bin and keep the wick off the floor of the rez a bit sorry for the confusion I fill the rez from the gap between the two bins. Are you guys saying I should drill bigger holes in my wick ? I think the soil was to moist even at the top it was some what moist without cover crop also should point out plant was quite small when I planted it into the bin about 3 sets of leaves


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 24, 2020)

Brandon137 said:


> Yes I was spraying just once and a while
> The wick has tons of holes it's a bin nested in another the 4 containers at corners are just to support the other bin and keep the wick off the floor of the rez a bit sorry for the confusion I fill the rez from the gap between the two bins. Are you guys saying I should drill bigger holes in my wick ? I think the soil was to moist even at the top it was some what moist without cover crop also should point out plant was quite small when I planted it into the bin about 3 sets of leaves


Ah ok from the pic it kinda looked like you had just the one little whole in each of the cups.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 24, 2020)

Aaaah sips... ya gotta love em needless to say I have been a bit busy and have not looked after these as I should have... any other growing way these would probably be dead.... but with SIPs rbey are thriving!


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## Brandon137 (Feb 24, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Ah ok from the pic it kinda looked like you had just the one little whole in each of the cups.


Yes I can see the confusion now lol I'm going to try and reset it up tonight with a bit more soil in it about 20g like the other bin that seems to be doing just fine how wet should the soil be at surface and let's say about 1-2" deep I feel like with the cover crop I probably could have squeezed out some droplets at about 1-2" deep which I feel is to much?


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## greg nr (Feb 24, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Aaaah sips... ya gotta love em needless to say I have been a bit busy and have not looked after these as I should have... any other growing way these would probably be dead.... but with SIPs rbey are thriving! View attachment 4487910


Yeah, I can, and do, leave mine all alone for a week at a time and they are fine without me. Probably happier without all the attention.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 24, 2020)

Brandon137 said:


> Yes I can see the confusion now lol I'm going to try and reset it up tonight with a bit more soil in it about 20g like the other bin that seems to be doing just fine how wet should the soil be at surface and let's say about 1-2" deep I feel like with the cover crop I probably could have squeezed out some droplets at about 1-2" deep which I feel is to much?


That does seem a little too wet to me... I only have 1 net pot as a wick in all my SIPs it is a 5 inch net pot. If you have FOUR large yogurt containers all mostly drilled out that seems like it might be much more of a wick then a 5 inch net pot. Keep in mind though that I used a five inch net pot on my 18 gallon and my 5 gallon sips and both seem fine so... maybe i am off base...sorry if I am not a lot of help i just followed the basic pdf posted on here long ago for mine.


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## Brandon137 (Feb 24, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> That does seem a little too wet to me... I only have 1 net pot as a wick in all my SIPs it is a 5 inch net pot. If you have FOUR large yogurt containers all mostly drilled out that seems like it might be much more of a wick then a 5 inch net pot. Keep in mind though that I used a five inch net pot on my 18 gallon and my 5 gallon sips and both seem fine so... maybe i am off base...sorry if I am not a lot of help i just followed the basic pdf posted on here long ago for mine.


Ok sounds good I'll set it up again make some tweaks and go from there and no apologies necessary after reading this hole thread I've learned a lot from you and manny others just wish I read the hole thing before building it lol the horse before the carriage I guess lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 24, 2020)

Brandon137 said:


> Ok sounds good I'll set it up again make some tweaks and go from there and no apologies necessary after reading this hole thread I've learned a lot from you and manny others just wish I read the hole thing before building it lol the horse before the carriage I guess lol


That is awesome to know that I have helped someone in here! I have lurked and learned so much from the site and this thread in particular its great to know I can give something back to the community!


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## MustangStudFarm (Feb 24, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Aaaah sips... ya gotta love em needless to say I have been a bit busy and have not looked after these as I should have... any other growing way these would probably be dead.... but with SIPs rbey are thriving! View attachment 4487910


Yeah, that was a nice recovery lol! I was going to say that you might have too much sodium from the kelp(previous pic), but they look just fine now!!!


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## MustangStudFarm (Feb 24, 2020)

NewGrower2011 said:


> @meangreengrowinmachine I'd also evaluate the NFTG soil offerings - looks pretty promising and the standards they (claim) to self-impose on how they make both their soil and coco seems to be promising. Their #4 soil is something I've bought and examined and looks pretty good to me.
> 
> I'd consider a variant of both A & B -- buy some #4 for the goodies it brings to the mix and as a 'refresher' -- then amend lightly to get things to a modest 'super soil' level and let it cook.
> 
> I'd definitely do a soil test if playing around with re-amending so you aren't flying blind. A 'before' test will tell you what you need to be adding and if you can afford to I'd do a before/after to make sure it's not too hot afterwards.


I ended up buying a 4-pack of Soil Savvy kits for $100 even. Not a huge savings but it also helps that I don't have to wait for shipping because they are on hand. Man, the turnaround time for the soil tests are getting longer. I used to be able to send in a test and have results 7 days after mailing it, but not anymore. I just had some HappyFrog tested straight from the bag, just to see what I'm dealing with but it's been over a week since I mailed it.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 24, 2020)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Yeah, that was a nice recovery lol! I was going to say that you might have too much sodium from the kelp(previous pic), but they look just fine now!!!


Thanks man! Yeah they bounced back very well!


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## MustangStudFarm (Feb 24, 2020)

I'm back in action after a bit of a hiccup... I just started using HappyFrog and Promix 50/50 then I used Grokashi to make the mycelium mat. I'm currently taking a smoke break but I'm topdressing with crab meal, malted barley, and Malibu compost. I'll have more pics later tonight.


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## MustangStudFarm (Feb 24, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Thanks man! Yeah they bounced back very well!


Did I see that you are making your own bokashi and expanding EM1? I messed up and didn't dry my homemade 'kashi and it went bad on me, so I bought a couple of bags for now. If you have a worm bin, they love it too. I had a population explosion when I gave them some 'kashi. Alan Adkisson(grokashi) has his recipe online and he don't keep it a secret, but some of the inputs are expensive like the Super Cera powder and Youngevity. Funny story, I started using Youngevity and kombucha for myself and I can tell a difference. I think that Kombucha is very similar to EM1 type of ferments. I'm glad to see that you are doing well!


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## raggyb (Feb 24, 2020)

Brandon137 said:


> Yes I was spraying just once and a while
> The wick has tons of holes it's a bin nested in another the 4 containers at corners are just to support the other bin and keep the wick off the floor of the rez a bit sorry for the confusion I fill the rez from the gap between the two bins. Are you guys saying I should drill bigger holes in my wick ? I think the soil was to moist even at the top it was some what moist without cover crop also should point out plant was quite small when I planted it into the bin about 3 sets of leaves


I get it now. duh. i think i was thrown of because i couldn't imagine yogurt containers could support the weight of the soil like that.
Edit: I had one like that and felt I had to put something to block the light in the gap where you fill yours. Just a suggestion. I think you want it dark as possible in the res for the roots that grow in there. I put some vinyl weatherproof stuff that didn't seem a health risk. probably could just stuff a towel in there and get a tube through somehow to water.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 24, 2020)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Did I see that you are making your own bokashi and expanding EM1? I messed up and didn't dry my homemade 'kashi and it went bad on me, so I bought a couple of bags for now. If you have a worm bin, they love it too. I had a population explosion when I gave them some 'kashi. Alan Adkisson(grokashi) has his recipe online and he don't keep it a secret, but some of the inputs are expensive like the Super Cera powder and Youngevity. Funny story, I started using Youngevity and kombucha for myself and I can tell a difference. I think that Kombucha is very similar to EM1 type of ferments. I'm glad to see that you are doing well!


yep! expanding EM and making bokashi! After watchign a few simple things on it, it seems really silly not to be doing that if you are going to be using them. I also had been making my own kombucha but have slowed down on that sadly... I still love the stuff and buy a lot of GT's but need to bet back to making my own. I also drink Kefir as well as a ..."glug" every morning consisting of coconut oil olive oil turmeric, Ceylon cinnamon, apple cider vinegar, lemon juice and honey. great for so many things (-:


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## MustangStudFarm (Feb 25, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> yep! expanding EM and making bokashi! After watchign a few simple things on it, it seems really silly not to be doing that if you are going to be using them. I also had been making my own kombucha but have slowed down on that sadly... I still love the stuff and buy a lot of GT's but need to bet back to making my own. I also drink Kefir as well as a ..."glug" every morning consisting of coconut oil olive oil turmeric, Ceylon cinnamon, apple cider vinegar, lemon juice and honey. great for so many things (-:


I kept trying to figure out why Alan Adkisson was using organic beet juice in his Grokashi, then listened to the podcast "Shaping Fire w/Alan Adkisson" and he said that beets live in the rhizosphere of streptomyces bacteria, so that is how he incorporates it in his grokashi. I had to read this little article to understand it better. https://gardenerspath.com/how-to/organic/streptomyces-lydicus-use/


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 25, 2020)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I kept trying to figure out why Alan Adkisson was using organic beet juice in his Grokashi, then listened to the podcast "Shaping Fire w/Alan Adkisson" and he said that beets live in the rhizosphere of streptomyces bacteria, so that is how he incorporates it in his grokashi. I had to read this little article to understand it better. https://gardenerspath.com/how-to/organic/streptomyces-lydicus-use/


Interesting... I put beets juice in my smoothies but never thought to add it to that. I will have to check that out! Thanks!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 28, 2020)

Have had a lot of shit going on lately, but this room is finally coming together! Painted tonight did some temp tests with a radiator space heater, bought a humidifier, aero cloner all cleaned and sterilized... almost ready to take a bunch of clones and see how many females I have and go to town! Need to get rid of that panda on that one side still also.


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## raggyb (Feb 28, 2020)

Someone here wrote about a SIP with perlite and I took the idea for my seedlings.

Here it is empty with the feed valve, used litter box
Filled with perlite to above the hole


place seedlings in. probably an inch above water level. notice the stretchy as fuck male

ready for replanting


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 28, 2020)

raggyb said:


> Someone here wrote about a SIP with perlite and I took the idea for my seedlings.
> 
> Here it is empty with the feed valve, used litter boxView attachment 4491759
> Filled with perlite to above the hole
> ...


its like a hempy bed!


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## raggyb (Feb 28, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> its like a hempy bed!


grows some algae on the perlite but I guess something could be done about that


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## Superbad421 (Feb 28, 2020)

Just curious how can you tell it's a male ? I've never grown with the SIP method and looking into to trying it looks handy if you have to leave for a week or two with not having to worry to much.


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## raggyb (Feb 28, 2020)

Superbad421 said:


> Just curious how can you tell it's a male ? I've never grown with the SIP method and looking into to trying it looks handy if you have to leave for a week or two with not having to worry to much.


i didn't know for sure but it grew balls lol. all these were started at the same time


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## Gemtree (Feb 28, 2020)

raggyb said:


> Someone here wrote about a SIP with perlite and I took the idea for my seedlings.
> 
> Here it is empty with the feed valve, used litter boxView attachment 4491759
> Filled with perlite to above the hole
> ...


That's nice for cloning too I fill a nursery tray with perlite and use those square pots filled with coco and a dome. Set it and forget it.


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## MustangStudFarm (Feb 29, 2020)

I thought that I would share a little update on my earthbox. I've been following Alan Adkisson's Grokashi method of topdressing with grokashi to let mycelium mat form then topdressing with Malibu compost. However, I added crab meal and malted barley before I added the malibu. So, this is a week or so after the initial mycelium mat. This stuff actually grew through the layer of crab, barley, and compost that I used. It seriously looks like a cat inside of my box.


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## MustangStudFarm (Feb 29, 2020)

This is the mycelium mat before the topdressing: 2/24 

You can still see some of the Grokashi bran


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 2, 2020)

and we are off!!!


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## SUNDOG (Mar 5, 2020)

DIY bokashi bran. three pounds of wheat bran, molasses and some of the DIY LAB serum. Mix and let sit for three weeks then dry.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 6, 2020)

SUNDOG said:


> DIY bokashi bran. three pounds of wheat bran, molasses and some of the DIY LAB serum. Mix and let sit for three weeks then dry. View attachment 4497071View attachment 4497072View attachment 4497073


Nice!!


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## NewGrower2011 (Mar 6, 2020)

So has anyone ran a SIP where it was purely coco based? I'm about to reset for next run and I have old nutes needing used up (synthetics/Botanicare Kind). Was thinking of taking my soil out while its reamended and left to sit for a while and do a coco run for the hell of it - but then thought why not use the coco in the SIP(s) instead of a DTW setup. I figure I won't actually put much in the rez but rather top-feed and let it accumulate/wick back up for feeding. I think the only gotcha I'd have to plan around is eventual salt/toxicity build-up but I thought in that case I'll put small pumps in the rezs for pumping out the waste every so often and flush the rez with some fresh water then pump out once more. Maybe week 4/midway...

What flaws are there in that thinking? Not organic/living soil but more hempy in style with the benefit of the zez/wicking from a large source (my rez's are 6/7g if I want to fill that much).


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 7, 2020)

NewGrower2011 said:


> So has anyone ran a SIP where it was purely coco based? I'm about to reset for next run and I have old nutes needing used up (synthetics/Botanicare Kind). Was thinking of taking my soil out while its reamended and left to sit for a while and do a coco run for the hell of it - but then thought why not use the coco in the SIP(s) instead of a DTW setup. I figure I won't actually put much in the rez but rather top-feed and let it accumulate/wick back up for feeding. I think the only gotcha I'd have to plan around is eventual salt/toxicity build-up but I thought in that case I'll put small pumps in the rezs for pumping out the waste every so often and flush the rez with some fresh water then pump out once more. Maybe week 4/midway...
> 
> What flaws are there in that thinking? Not organic/living soil but more hempy in style with the benefit of the zez/wicking from a large source (my rez's are 6/7g if I want to fill that much).


Basically sounds like a hempy bucket. It should work out but you might need to look into how the hempy folks do it. There should be a ton of thread out there about them. I actually started with hempy buckets using perlite before finding SIPs.


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## myinvisiblecomplication (Mar 7, 2020)

SUNDOG said:


> DIY bokashi bran. three pounds of wheat bran, molasses and some of the DIY LAB serum. Mix and let sit for three weeks then dry. View attachment 4497071View attachment 4497072View attachment 4497073



Thanks for sharing your bokashi mix. Are you able to list the measurements for this mix please


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## NewGrower2011 (Mar 9, 2020)

Well I tore down the SIP(s) from last run, emptied the soil out & gave the tub/rez a good wash and scrub (not perfect but good'nuf). I can attest that these Rubbermaid Brute totes are pretty damn tough. Holding up well to the light exposure and handling. The base isn't really sagging even with a living soil mix that's not overly aerated.

Next run I'm probably just going to do like I said and try some coco-based variant. Either the entire tub as a coco bed and hand-watered/top-fed or rather than mess with needing a pump in the rez to empty it I might just use them as overglorified drip pans. 

Need to use up them KIND nutes is only real reason - as I was tearing it down, scrubbing shit in the bathtub I was mumbling something about why the fuck wasn't I just re-amending my soil and off to the races. You can't argue about the lower maintenance nature of living soil/organics and especially with SIP(s). 

I will say I'm not looking forward to having to think about pH again and mixing crap frequently. When I mixed shit for these organic SIP(s) it was purely optional/pushing things with a little love potion here & there which again, I didn't have to really fret over pH all that much (I was using NFTG goodies so the HH does make you need to at least be thinking of pH impact).


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## SUNDOG (Mar 11, 2020)

myinvisiblecomplication said:


> Thanks for sharing your bokashi mix. Are you able to list the measurements for this mix please


Welcome, I found lots of recipes online under "DIY bokashi bran" 
I mixed 1 1/2 tablespoons of My LAB serum, 1 1/2 tablespoons of molasses and about 250-300 ml of water to 1 pound of wheat brand. Has to sit Dark/warm and unopened for 3 weeks. Then dry it out. I'll post more pics when I open it up for those interested.


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## Imbald (Mar 11, 2020)

Finishing up some Alien OG x GG4
and some GMO x Black banana cookies
In two Earth boxes and four homade sips.
Day 67. Waiting on a little Amber.


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## SUNDOG (Mar 11, 2020)

Imbald said:


> Finishing up some Alien OG x GG4
> and some GMO x Black banana cookies
> In two Earth boxes and four homade sips.
> Day 67. Waiting on a little Amber.
> View attachment 4501556View attachment 4501558View attachment 4501559View attachment 4501560


Buds are looking chunky imbald, great job man.


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## myinvisiblecomplication (Mar 11, 2020)

SUNDOG said:


> Welcome, I found lots of recipes online under "DIY bokashi bran"
> I mixed 1 1/2 tablespoons of My LAB serum, 1 1/2 tablespoons of molasses and about 250-300 ml of water to 1 pound of wheat brand. Has to sit Dark/warm and unopened for 3 weeks. Then dry it out. I'll post more pics when I open it up for those interested.


Pics are always helpful.


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## GreenDave123 (Mar 12, 2020)

Sorry didn’t mean to start a earth box thread didn’t see this one
My bad
Any secrets or tips on the earth box?
Been doing hempy for a few years 
Always messing with something diffrent


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## SUNDOG (Mar 17, 2020)

LAB serum taking over a small compost bin just wanted to see how it preformed. Smells like kimchi or sour kraut.


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## myinvisiblecomplication (Mar 18, 2020)

Tim Fox said:


> Chop Chop, this was by far the Easiest Grow i have every done, water only the whole ride, never saw any insects or bugs, or creepy crawly things hahah, didnt spray anything on the plants the entire grow, just poured water from my tap into the fill hole, and this happend,, gotta love the sipView attachment 4463674



Hey Fox what was the yeild on this grow?


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## NewGrower2011 (Mar 20, 2020)

Well the reset happened, going this run with a semi-coco SIP.

Mixed 5 parts worm casting/coco/perlite mix (wormmix), 1 more part of chunky perlite, 1 more part of Bu's compost & 1 more part of worm castings and then 1 part NFTG #4... Pretty light & fluffy mix it seems, nicely aerated. The #4 was on hand and has a few goodies in it including yucca meal so that's why I included it.

The SIP(s) then have some nice pumps in the rez so I can flush/drain as I want. The 4" wicking tubes were packed with chunky perlite most of the way to the top so we'll see how the wicking action plays out. There's no air stone in the rez so it's really going to be used more of a catch-pan for a quasi-DTW setup where hopefully most will get used rather than wasted - knowing I'll have to monitor for salt-buildup issues. I plan to flush with RO water and then pump out as needed every couple weeks perhaps.

Same stains, lights & environment otherwise, perhaps a little warmer/different humidity is only notable variables otherwise. We'll see how this compares to the best run from before in these SIPs.


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## Bignutes (Mar 22, 2020)

Ok SIP gurus I have a plan and the components have come together, just need some sage advice.

I picked up some pot elevators at 16" dia, 10 gal fabric pots at 16" dia and these plastic tubs with handles, it took a while to source the right sized stuff to make everything fit together and to get it to fit in my grow space.

So the idea is to fill the center with pumice to wick. The concern I need to address is looking into to see the water level as well as water quality. I can put a side tube down to bottom and use a dry stick to gauge water height. 

Should I be concerned with anything else?

I'm running a soil and soiless mix about 50/50. Approx aeration is 25% pumice, 7% perlite, 17% rice hulls, 31% loam, 16% peat, rest diat earth and ewc.


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## SUNDOG (Mar 23, 2020)

For those interested here's the diy bokashi bran after 3 weeks. That bacteria area was the size of a baseball and rock hard. Broke it up and mixed it in. Drying now.


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## myinvisiblecomplication (Mar 23, 2020)

@SUNDOG nice one still waiting on the recipie


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## Avant_Gardener (Mar 24, 2020)

SUNDOG said:


> For those interested here's the diy bokashi bran after 3 weeks. That bacteria area was the size of a baseball and rock hard. Broke it up and mixed it in. Drying now. View attachment 4511955View attachment 4511956View attachment 4511958


What did you use as an anti-clumping agent?


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## SUNDOG (Mar 25, 2020)

myinvisiblecomplication said:


> @SUNDOG nice one still waiting on the recipie


Thanks dude, I already posted the recipe it at the top of this page.


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## SUNDOG (Mar 25, 2020)

Avant_Gardener said:


> What did you use as an anti-clumping agent?


Didnt use anything for anti- clumping. Just LAB serum, water, molasses and wheat bran. it doesn't clump.


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## myinvisiblecomplication (Mar 25, 2020)

SUNDOG said:


> Thanks dude, I already posted the recipe it at the top of this page.


Yes you did I even liked it thanks


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## raggyb (Mar 25, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> Ok SIP gurus I have a plan and the components have come together, just need some sage advice.
> 
> I picked up some pot elevators at 16" dia, 10 gal fabric pots at 16" dia and these plastic tubs with handles, it took a while to source the right sized stuff to make everything fit together and to get it to fit in my grow space.
> 
> ...


i'm not a sage but my 2c is cool looking parts, however it's a little hard to see in the pics how deep your wick will be. are you seating the fabric pot inside the tub and cutting it and sewing it to the wick? you might be able to put a screen on top and forget about the fabric pot. can't tell if your reservoir is deep enough to allow for an air space + water. you might want to try one first, before you drill holes and stuff and discover you want to make changes. i like the elbow water level indicator diy discussed earlier.


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## RevRico (Apr 3, 2020)

Your koolaid looks like fun. But I have some questions.I

I'm probably going to build both inntainer style and the smart pot on a res versions of a sips soon. Due to factors beyond my control, I'm not ready to move into the source yet, but my clones are ready to come out of the cloner. 
It'll be about 3 weeks or so before I can get my new space up and running with sips, what should I put the clones in in the mean time?

Solo cup? 2 or 3 gallon container? They'll be moving into whatever sizes I find for the inntainer or 10 gallon smart pots in 3 to 4 weeks, I plan to flower as soon as the roots hit the res. 

I'll be using FFOF and plain water the first few times to see how things work. If I can find it, the happy frog dry organic nuts in a trench, then covered with panda plastic or something.


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## Bignutes (Apr 3, 2020)

RevRico said:


> Your koolaid looks like fun. But I have some questions.I
> 
> I'm probably going to build both inntainer style and the smart pot on a res versions of a sips soon. Due to factors beyond my control, I'm not ready to move into the source yet, but my clones are ready to come out of the cloner.
> It'll be about 3 weeks or so before I can get my new space up and running with sips, what should I put the clones in in the mean time?
> ...


I'm going from 9 litre to 10 gal in a week. 9 litre lasts about 3 weeks before root bound, at least in my grow.


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## Bignutes (Apr 4, 2020)

raggyb said:


> i'm not a sage but my 2c is cool looking parts, however it's a little hard to see in the pics how deep your wick will be. are you seating the fabric pot inside the tub and cutting it and sewing it to the wick? you might be able to put a screen on top and forget about the fabric pot. can't tell if your reservoir is deep enough to allow for an air space + water. you might want to try one first, before you drill holes and stuff and discover you want to make changes. i like the elbow water level indicator diy discussed earlier.


Wick spots are a 2 1/4" inch deep by 3" diameter at the middle of the pot elevator. There are also six rectangular wicks that may or may not be used they are 1"x2" by the same 2 1/4" deep. Yes seating the fabric pot inside tub but no sewing or blowing a hole in fabric. Going to put pumice in the wicks so its just above the level of the wells in the pot elevator and set the fabric pot onto the pumice/pot elevator. Figured 1 1/4" of water, 1" of air. 

The screen with no fabric is a good idea, I can then grow some Amazon's in there it would take soil volume from 10 gal to about 17 gal.

I like the sight glass concept, we do that on hydraulic tanks at work. I agree not keen on blowing a hole in the tubs yet until the bugs are worked out.


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## raggyb (Apr 4, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> Wick spots are a 2 1/4" inch deep by 3" diameter at the middle of the pot elevator. There are also six rectangular wicks that may or may not be used they are 1"x2" by the same 2 1/4" deep. Yes seating the fabric pot inside tub but no sewing or blowing a hole in fabric. Going to put pumice in the wicks so its just above the level of the wells in the pot elevator and set the fabric pot onto the pumice/pot elevator. Figured 1 1/4" of water, 1" of air.
> 
> The screen with no fabric is a good idea, I can then grow some Amazon's in there it would take soil volume from 10 gal to about 17 gal.
> 
> I like the sight glass concept, we do that on hydraulic tanks at work. I agree not keen on blowing a hole in the tubs yet until the bugs are worked out.


are you going to manually water or set something up automatic. my thought is 1.25" water will dry out fast. and the sip guys say holes in the bottom and access for the roots to grow thru the wick is necessary. not sure they will penetrate the fabric even if wet but maybe.


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## Bignutes (Apr 4, 2020)

raggyb said:


> are you going to manually water or set something up automatic. my thought is 1.25" water will dry out fast. and the sip guys say holes in the bottom and access for the roots to grow thru the wick is necessary. not sure they will penetrate the fabric even if wet but maybe.


Ok I will cut some holes in the fabric pot ones, I'll run a few fabrics and some with no fabric just soil on top of mesh on top of pot lifters. The water use is unknown to me this method but from what I understand is they drink more in a sip. The volume of water in the bottom 1.25" is 4.4 litres or 1.15 gal. Is that going to be too little to be effective as a sip? How many days would that go you think?


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## raggyb (Apr 5, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> Ok I will cut some holes in the fabric pot ones, I'll run a few fabrics and some with no fabric just soil on top of mesh on top of pot lifters. The water use is unknown to me this method but from what I understand is they drink more in a sip. The volume of water in the bottom 1.25" is 4.4 litres or 1.15 gal. Is that going to be too little to be effective as a sip? How many days would that go you think?


I think you said 14" diameter or 10gal so that's a big plant. Mine in 5 gal pots were drinking 1 gal a day at their peak though I let them get too big. If your wicks go to the bottom then maybe they'll last 24 hr. Depends on your light power and how big you let them get too. I suppose you could let them dry out a bit before you refill but I never tried that. I felt the idea was to not have to water a lot and letting them dry out might kill the water roots. I made deep wicks for this reason and I don't know if they work better or worse but they did keep drinking up to 3 gal down I'd say. I hope the screen thing will work, just an idea and I think it will. Suggest a poly screen though so it doesn't rust. Maybe eventually you work out an automatic refilling system. The good thing about yours is you save head room. I loose a lot with my contraptions. Less kneeling though.


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## Bignutes (Apr 5, 2020)

raggyb said:


> I think you said 14" diameter or 10gal so that's a big plant. Mine in 5 gal pots were drinking 1 gal a day at their peak though I let them get too big. If your wicks go to the bottom then maybe they'll last 24 hr. Depends on your light power and how big you let them get too. I suppose you could let them dry out a bit before you refill but I never tried that. I felt the idea was to not have to water a lot and letting them dry out might kill the water roots. I made deep wicks for this reason and I don't know if they work better or worse but they did keep drinking up to 3 gal down I'd say. I hope the screen thing will work, just an idea and I think it will. Suggest a poly screen though so it doesn't rust. Maybe eventually you work out an automatic refilling system. The good thing about yours is you save head room. I loose a lot with my contraptions. Less kneeling though.


The difference between water consumption by hand versus what the SIPS are is large! For a screen I have aluminum window screen, not a fan of it being aluminum, will probably do poly screen.

I am going to keep the plant to a 2x2 in 10 gal for now without depleting soil nutes too much. I am riding the line right now in 7 gal and the plants just finish before giving up from exhausting the soil. 

I did an auto watering system on my second last grow, it wasn't very good because it didnt evenly water the soil. I could resurrect that idea as I just need to refill a reservoir so I am thinking reviving that concept, its threaded pvc pipe attached to tubing dropped into each bucket on a drip system. Drip controlled by tightening the end cap on each pvc pipe. Then a larger reservoir elevated for gravity drain to each bucket. It would save some height. I like your method better, more forgiving, but I need to take that route slow, not into blowing holes into new items until I get one tested and proven. It looks like I am going to have a real mix of methods to speed up the learning curve.


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## RevRico (Apr 5, 2020)

So I have read through this whole thread. And the probiotics thread, and a few people whose names I don't remember but linked grows through this thread in sips. I've seen the ridiculous growth rates, the debates and openendedness of wick size, the customizations, the cons of using hydro nutes, the space considerations. 

Before I actually start buying things, how about we go over my potential setup, so I can make changes or weigh options with my down time?

I'm going back and forth between running 2 48x24x60" tents or 2 48x48x78-80" tents. It's just cheaper and easier to buy tents from Amazon than build rooms, even with the material I have on hand. Am I wrong in thinning I could fit 2 inntainers inside a 48x48, but only one in a 48x24?

I'll be running 600 watt HPS, and possibly a "1000 watt" (320 at the wall) blurple, 4 inch exhaust fan to charcoal filter. 

I keep going around about a nursery too. In all honesty, I'd like to stop my perpetual grow. Switching to SIPS sounds like it will make it easier work wise, but I'd really like to get down to just 2-3 harvest per year. I've seen it mentioned a few times about having some trouble transplanting into the sips, and I did ask about it already, but I have a tendency to cut to many clones and can't bring myself to kill them, so I wind up with plants vegging 4-6 months, sometimes longer. What's a better way to go about maintaining a supply of plants ready to flip? Or maybe a better question is what are veg times like, and could a plant veg 2-3 months in this setup and still have the nutes to flower in the soil?

I'm not ready to jump into the living soil thing. I might start it later this year once I figure out the veggie garden too, but there's just too much going on to be able to spend the time learning it now.

I'm not gonna lie, my main concern, initially, is weight. I know how to scrog, and I've seen a lot of your grows looking impressive, but haven't seen many numbers after the harvest. In my current drain to waste sunshine#4 and jacks citrus, I'm averaging a little over an ounce per gallon of pot size, whether I run 3s or 10s. Can I expect similar our better yields coming over to this side of the fence? That would help me determine tent size and plant count a bit better. 

Sorry for the long post, but I'm bored and over thinking things waiting on this house to close so I can setup the new grow.


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## Bignutes (Apr 5, 2020)

If you've got an over cloning complex and end up with too many like I do, get your clones rooted and drop the light intensity so they are just above a dormancy state. They can exist like this perpetually until your ready to put them on the dance floor. They wouldn't take a whole lot of nutrients out of the soil either.


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## raggyb (Apr 5, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> I did an auto watering system on my second last grow, it wasn't very good because it didnt evenly water the soil. I could resurrect that idea as I just need to refill a reservoir so I am thinking reviving that concept, its threaded pvc pipe attached to tubing dropped into each bucket on a drip system. Drip controlled by tightening the end cap on each pvc pipe. Then a larger reservoir elevated for gravity drain to each bucket. It would save some height. I like your method better, more forgiving, but I need to take that route slow, not into blowing holes into new items until I get one tested and proven. It looks like I am going to have a real mix of methods to speed up the learning curve.


I'm using gravity fed too and there are several challenges. I have different sized homemade SIPs and getting them all so that the water level is the same is a challenge. A float valve keeps one height. But it's tough to move them, disconnects and other weird stuff happens.


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## Bignutes (Apr 6, 2020)

Has anyone used wick cord to build a sip? Nothing comes up in search. Take a wick cord put it in a reservoir that sits beside your plants and run the other end of the wick into the pot. It would alleviate having tub in tub type of build, stacking components, fluid level markers and construction of sip. If one cord isn't enough then multiply.

Second concept is to build a 18"x44" flood table with poly liner for two 10 gal pots. Flood table will be 4 inches deep to hold 13.7 gal so at 1 gal per day use it would roughly be 7 days of water supply for both plants.


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## Bignutes (Apr 6, 2020)

Found an answer on the wick cord, only good for small plants, but assuming that's using one wick.


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## Polyuro (Apr 6, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> Found an answer on the wick cord, only good for small plants, but assuming that's using one wick.


From what I’ve gathered you want your compacted medium in direct contact with the water reservoir to make sure the soil gets saturated enough. A artificial wick or even landscape fabric in between the rez and medium can hinder natural soil wicking.


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## Bignutes (Apr 6, 2020)

Polyuro said:


> From what I’ve gathered you want your compacted medium in direct contact with the water reservoir to make sure the soil gets saturated enough. A artificial wick or even landscape fabric in between the rez and medium can hinder natural soil wicking.


Ok that is what it looks like I must do. So no to pumice? Or go with peat or my soil mix?


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## Polyuro (Apr 6, 2020)

whatever holds together the best for the wick part of the medium . Too much pumic, perlite etc will make the medium ‘crumbly’ and wash away your soil wick in the Rez


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## Bignutes (Apr 6, 2020)

Ok so I have everything ready to go, my only hold up is using a pump and air stones. I have isolated pots and dont want to run a pump and air stones to each one. What are my options? I'm no hydro guy lol.


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## GreenDave123 (Apr 7, 2020)

From what I have read
You water like a normal plant from top for about 7-10 days until the plant grows it’s roots down to the moist soil
The idea is to go from moist bottom up to dry topsoil to rid off fungus Nats
The plant will grow roots where it likes the moisture


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## Bignutes (Apr 7, 2020)

It's supposed to grow faster if the water is aerated


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## Polyuro (Apr 7, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> It's supposed to grow faster if the water is aerated


If u add em-1 to your water in the Rez you do not need an air stone. Em-1 keeps your water from going anaerobic.


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## Bignutes (Apr 7, 2020)

I was under the impression that oxygenating the water would increase biomass but after seeing an experiment of dwc vs kratky I am convinced that it doesn't need aeration. Em1 will be added, thank you for that @Polyuro 

Super smart guy doing this experiment, he understands how to perform an experiment. The second link at about 40% onwards thru gives you the results.


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## Bignutes (Apr 7, 2020)

I had some 5 l sq pots that fit perfect under the pot elevators. Now I'll have 7.5 inches of clearance under the elevators/fabric pot. With 6.5 inches of water it will give me 7 gal of reservoir. Its coming together!


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## Polyuro (Apr 8, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> I had some 5 l sq pots that fit perfect under the pot elevators. Now I'll have 7.5 inches of clearance under the elevators/fabric pot. With 6.5 inches of water it will give me 7 gal of reservoir. Its coming together!


Looks cool. If u run into nutrient deficiencies and/or lack of water problems mid to later flower it may be because of the fabric grow bags. The landscape cloth can get clogged over time. If it does, use a razor knife and cut the bag down low under your fill line. Might be best to dump your medium into the bucket after adding a rez fill tube. Good luck either way!


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## Bignutes (Apr 8, 2020)

Polyuro said:


> Looks cool. If u run into nutrient deficiencies and/or lack of water problems mid to later flower it may be because of the fabric grow bags. The landscape cloth can get clogged over time. If it does, use a razor knife and cut the bag down low under your fill line. Might be best to dump your medium into the bucket after adding a rez fill tube. Good luck either way!


I was going to cut a donut out of the bottom of the fabric pot and blow a hole in the center of the pot lifter and pack the bottom 5 l pot full of peat, vermiculite and soil for an unobstructed column of soil from the bottom of the tub right up into the fabric pot. I think with the larger vertical distance of 7.5 inch and fabric pots I am asking too much for capillary action, its the reason i am going with vermiculite so it absorbs readily.....i have to test it. I'm not using a rez fill tube, going with nothing but a flashlight to look down the side, it gives me enough clearance to see down the sides. Hope to top it off with black plastic to keep light out.


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## Bignutes (Apr 8, 2020)

@Polyuro do you think I will have wicking problems with the fabric pots evaporating too much esp in flower?


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## Polyuro (Apr 9, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> @Polyuro do you think I will have wicking problems with the fabric pots evaporating too much esp in flower?


I don’t know.. I think as long as u cover your sip with black trash bag snuggly and not just the grow bag, any evaporation should “rain forest“ back down. I try and follow #greenthumbs256 As close as possible and he had issues with the fabric as a filter between Rez and medium. Or maybe it was someone else lol.


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## GreenDave123 (Apr 9, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> @Polyuro do you think I will have wicking problems with the fabric pots evaporating too much esp in flower?


I don’t think you will
The autopot has a fabric version and it’s a wick system 
I think I read somewhere that the fabric actually draws the excess salts away from the soil
Not sure just starting down this path


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## Bignutes (Apr 9, 2020)

GreenDave123 said:


> I don’t think you will
> The autopot has a fabric version and it’s a wick system
> I think I read somewhere that the fabric actually draws the excess salts away from the soil
> Not sure just starting down this path


That would make sense, as it evaporates at the surface it would leave salts. 

When facing indecision on which way to go I am going to do this three different ways and test results.

1) The way I described in my last description 
2) The way @Polyuro recommends with wick tube, screen, soil and fill tube
3) One with a shallow basin (made of plywood and poly) with a fabric pot sitting on a contained ring of pumice with a cover over water rez. I actually think I like the last one in theory the best, would make water level easily observable, clean out easy and by making it long and narrow for two plants to sit in. This gives you added surface area instead of providing more depth in a small rez, it would give less fluctuation in water level as it gets drawn down.


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## Polyuro (Apr 9, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> That would make sense, as it evaporates at the surface it would leave salts.
> 
> When facing indecision on which way to go I am going to do this three different ways and test results.
> 
> ...


#3 sounds like a f&d sip. Blowing my mind lolol. Start a grow journal please!


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## Polyuro (Apr 9, 2020)

GreenDave123 said:


> I don’t think you will
> The autopot has a fabric version and it’s a wick system
> I think I read somewhere that the fabric actually draws the excess salts away from the soil
> Not sure just starting down this path


this system should not have salt build up problems. That is one reason sips rock. Hydro and top feed will have that problem U r right!


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## Polyuro (Apr 9, 2020)

Polyuro said:


> this system should not have salt build up problems. That is one reason sips rock. Hydro and top feed will have that problem U r right!


Especially if u stay away from coco.


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## Bignutes (Apr 9, 2020)

Polyuro said:


> #3 sounds like a f&d sip. Blowing my mind lolol. Start a grow journal please!


At 18" x 44" x 4.1" deep for two plants total water capacity of 14 gallons, enough for two plants for 7 days at a gallon a day. With anti friction or furniture moving pads this could keep the overall height down to 6" or so and then pot on top of that, definitely work well for those who have height restrictions.


Ok I will do a journal, just need to get the room finished off, about 80% done and about two weeks from getting my new girls on the dance floor.


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## GreenDave123 (Apr 9, 2020)

Polyuro said:


> #3 sounds like a f&d sip. Blowing my mind lolol. Start a grow journal please!


Yes Grow journal please!


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## Tim Fox (Apr 9, 2020)

Hey everyone everything your asking and going through has been answered and shown in many posts earlier in this thread , air stones are not needed as the air gap gives the roots all the oxygen they need , I have never added anything to my res other than clean water , I have never ever never watered from the top , watch Earthbox videos on YouTube, sure you can put stones and oxy in your res , but I am not convinced they make a difference when using sips because of the air gap


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## Bignutes (Apr 9, 2020)

Tim Fox said:


> Hey everyone everything your asking and going through has been answered and shown in many posts earlier in this thread , air stones are not needed as the air gap gives the roots all the oxygen they need , I have never added anything to my res other than clean water , I have never ever never watered from the top , watch Earthbox videos on YouTube, sure you can put stones and oxy in your res , but I am not convinced they make a difference when using sips because of the air gap


Glad you chimed in, I did read in the first 20 pages or so that one member did have better success with air stones but I am glad you put that to rest. I was on the fence with em-1, so good to hear you put that to bed too.

Couldn't read thru 120 pages, most often sidetracked conversation, gives me headaches otherwise I would.

What do you think of a shallow box with fabric pot on a contained layer of pumice? Is there a max distance that doesn't wick well? Was thinking the shallower and larger you make the rez the less change in vertical distance the more consistent the moisture level is in pot.


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## Bignutes (Apr 11, 2020)

Fuck what a marathon read and a long ways to go still. So far it's given me perspective on how to make a sip for all around adjustability. From what I can tell some of the rules from posters are very specific to their build. Factor in soil texture and now you've got a monkey's lunch for what design works and what doesn't. Concept is coming along nicely, have parts but ran into some problems with geometry on how it's built, musing on that, hope to get that rectified, not a big one but my babies are about to be root bound!


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## Bignutes (Apr 13, 2020)

@GreenDave123 , @Polyuro 

My new sip design, the first of two is in this thread, this one is more for those with no height restrictions, I'm doing another concept in a bit thats a low rider:





__





Hanging Garden of Babylon SIP


I am building a sip with the intent that anyone can use it regardless of soil type, wick size, air gap, etc. Got done conceptualizing this, took a while but got it together, got some serious symptoms from doing this but I think it's finally hangin and bangin, quite literally. Ok so I went thru...



www.rollitup.org


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## weedstoner420 (Apr 16, 2020)

Heyyy, on/off lurker, first time poster...

So I'm starting my first organic/living soil grow in two Garden Patch GrowBox SIPs. They're currently filled with soil, but plants are still in solo cups for the time being.

I'm wondering if I should be worried about the small amount of soil that fell through the screen into the reservoir area while I was filling the boxes. It's less than a handful, just seems like it would be tough to get it out at this point without emptying the whole thing and starting over...

Is there any difference between that soil and the soil in the wicking chambers, as far as potential for anaerobic bacteria to grow? And is an anaerobic res a big deal as long as there is an air gap between the water and soil?


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## Polyuro (Apr 16, 2020)

weedstoner420 said:


> Heyyy, on/off lurker, first time poster...
> 
> So I'm starting my first organic/living soil grow in two Garden Patch GrowBox SIPs. They're currently filled with soil, but plants are still in solo cups for the time being.
> 
> ...


Dont worry about a little soil in the rez. Just make sure your wick(s) is compressed.

The air gap as Tim fox says keeps his grows healthy. Better follow him step for step.

Em-1 will keep the water from going anaerobic and adds healthy bacteria/probiotics.


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## weedstoner420 (Apr 16, 2020)

Polyuro said:


> Dont worry about a little soil in the rez. Just make sure your wick(s) is compressed.
> 
> The air gap as Tim fox says keeps his grows healthy. Better follow him step for step.
> 
> Em-1 will keep the water from going anaerobic and adds healthy bacteria/probiotics.


Nice, I saw Tim's GrowBox setup a few pages back, definitely dig the super straightforward approach.

I was considering using EM-1 too; is that something that needs to be added every time the res is filled? Or will it stay active as long as it doesn't dry out?


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## Polyuro (Apr 16, 2020)

weedstoner420 said:


> Nice, I saw Tim's GrowBox setup a few pages back, definitely dig the super straightforward approach.
> 
> I was considering using EM-1 too; is that something that needs to be added every time the res is filled? Or will it stay active as long as it doesn't dry out?


I hear people doing it two or three times a run, some do it more. Some use LABS instead. And of coarse tim flow doesn’t do it at all. I would think a few times at soil cook/beginning to get the bactira/microbes/probiotics working and then they should grow on there own. Maybe hit it a couple times in flower just to make sure things are healthy down under. I don’t think u can over do it, it just would be expensive. Eventually the fungus would eat the bacteria if it went nuts! That is why Kashi on top, bacteria down low.


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## weedstoner420 (Apr 16, 2020)

Polyuro said:


> I hear people doing it two or three times a run, some do it more. Some use LABS instead. And of coarse tim flow doesn’t do it at all. I would think a few times at soil cook/beginning to get the bactira/microbes/probiotics working and then they should grow on there own. Maybe hit it a couple times in flower just to make sure things are healthy down under. I don’t think u can over do it, it just would be expensive. Eventually the fungus would eat the bacteria if it went nuts! That is why Kashi on top, bacteria down low.


Great to know, thanks!


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## raggyb (Apr 23, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> @Polyuro do you think I will have wicking problems with the fabric pots evaporating too much esp in flower?


I believe the wick will work even when it's low water though things will be moister when it's high.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 26, 2020)

Ugh I cant clone to save my life fuck me so frustrated and discouraged this go round... guess im just a from seed guy from now on ... well you're welcome seed breeders


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## Deadhead13 (Apr 29, 2020)

Has anybody ever used the GroBucket inserts? I’ve got a couple of EBs and a SIP that I made from a bucket but got lazy and bought 3 of these inserts. I’m planning on trying an inside run with a Spiderfarmer SF2000 and a 2 ft by 4 ft tent.


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## GreenDave123 (Apr 30, 2020)

Look interesting
How do they attach to the bottom of the bucket to hold water?


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## Deadhead13 (Apr 30, 2020)

GreenDave123 said:


> Look interesting
> How do they attach to the bottom of the bucket to hold water?


They are supposed to drop right into the bucket. I just didn’t see a wick area cut out like with an EB type system.


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## GreenDave123 (Apr 30, 2020)

I believe it uses the soil in the corner to wick the water up like a earth box


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## GreenDave123 (May 10, 2020)

Does anyone have a diy float level design


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## raggyb (May 10, 2020)

GreenDave123 said:


> Does anyone have a diy float level design


good idea. i think something like shave a wine cork down so it fits in the fill tube and floats up and down. then i cant quite think of what to poke in. something like an incense stick or a thin wire that is just stiff enough? mark it for when empty and full.


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## 1shaggyDude (May 10, 2020)

GreenDave123 said:


> Does anyone have a diy float level design


I use a bamboo skewer. Kind of like a car dipstick for checking oil. It works okay. I believe @Tim Fox made one with a hose and grommet that's alot easier to see when filling up the res.


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## GreenDave123 (May 10, 2020)

That’s what I’m after
I was thinking the Bamboo inside a straw


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## Bignutes (May 10, 2020)

Get one of those long skinny bobbers for fishing and a piece of stiff wire going up in a small piece of tube to keep it vertical


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## Tim Fox (May 11, 2020)

Yup


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## GreenDave123 (May 11, 2020)

Cool that sounds like what I was thinking 
Some real MacGyver stuff


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## Bignutes (May 11, 2020)

Come to think of it a round bobber will work better because the needle type tend to submerge themselves too much so it will hit reservoir bottom and wont register the bottom few inches. The round bobber floats on top and it should almost read the reservoir bottom.


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## Reefslinger (Jun 22, 2020)

For those using dYI sips in 30 gallon totes with corrugated drainage pipes covered in vermiculite then filled with supersoil, can I make this notill and just add amendments, or do I have to clean out and reset(because of the vermiculite)?


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## Greenthumbs256 (Jun 22, 2020)

Reefslinger said:


> For those using dYI sips in 30 gallon totes with corrugated drainage pipes covered in vermiculite then filled with supersoil, can I make this notill and just add amendments, or do I have to clean out and reset(because of the vermiculite)?


Em1 will keep it clean you can run no till, but the issue is eventually your going to run out of top space to keep top dressing, and eventually you will run out of nutrients.


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## Reefslinger (Jun 22, 2020)

Thanks greenthumb256. Another question if I may, it’s suggested that the medium ends up being to wet for worms to thrive. Would adding a top layer of hay give them a place to hang out and while munching on the hay they’d be feeding soil?


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## Greenthumbs256 (Jun 22, 2020)

Reefslinger said:


> Thanks greenthumb256. Another question if I may, it’s suggested that the medium ends up being to wet for worms to thrive. Would adding a top layer of hay give them a place to hang out and while munching on the hay they’d be feeding soil?


I suppose it could, but that wouldn't work the way I do it simply bc of the mycelium. But I wont say it wont work, anything's possible. It could even work better then the way I do it, I just dont know bc I've never done it.


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## bodhipop (Jul 29, 2020)

Love this thread. 
Where is the best place to acquire the LAB serum? 
Has anyone "expanded" their grokashi after purchase into more wheat bran substrate?
I also have some kombucha scoby's that got some bugs into them. They are not colonized or anything but it's nothing I would want to use for my drinks, I was wondering about utilizing this into compost/juice teas but it'll probably just go in the trash can. Kombucha has to be a pretty acidic ph, so I guess you could ferment a blend at low ph and then dilute later on before feeding the plants. Just brainstorming.


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## NewGrower2011 (Jul 30, 2020)

Working on finalizing my next batch of soil for my SIP(s) and curious of the pros' & cons' of running light aeration vs heavy aeration in the mix when it specifically comes to running SIPs. Furthermore, the wick itself and the amount of aeration/material. I think we're in a little different shoes than some of the other traditional advise so wondering what this crowd thought.

I think last time around I ran a few variants on the wicks which amounted to how much perlite was used and where in the wick it was used. I think, but have no real data to support it, that the ones where the wick had a lot of aeration didn't work as well. 

My current batch is a bit heavy on the organic material (ewc, bu's/ancient forest compost, a little peat, some old leftovers bud material from an aborted run for some greens). I have added some montmorillonite clay this time as well with a dash more perlite. Now I'm trying to decide how much more aeration to use.

Previously I ran open-top without any 'shower cap' and think that hindered things so this time around I have some heavy duty epmd pond liner (0.045mil) to make my covers. So with a cover I won't be getting passive aeration from the top like I did before and that has me thinking about it even more.

I do plan to use EM again as I did before so from that angle I'm covered either way. I even contemplated using air stones not so much for anerobic rez but knowing I have a moderately snug seal around my totes I'm thinking it'd make it up through the soil to some degree and that might help offset the difference of having a cover this time. The air would leak out around the cover but that may also push moisture up right under the plant - which screams of mold issues in flowering, etc. So that leads me back to passive and run anaerobic - just make sure there's a small air gap under the cover.


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## Hawg Wild (Jul 30, 2020)

NewGrower2011 said:


> Working on finalizing my next batch of soil for my SIP(s) and curious of the pros' & cons' of running light aeration vs heavy aeration in the mix when it specifically comes to running SIPs. Furthermore, the wick itself and the amount of aeration/material. I think we're in a little different shoes than some of the other traditional advise so wondering what this crowd thought.
> 
> I think last time around I ran a few variants on the wicks which amounted to how much perlite was used and where in the wick it was used. I think, but have no real data to support it, that the ones where the wick had a lot of aeration didn't work as well.
> 
> ...


Man did you make some Double Strawberry Diesel f2s some years ago? Just wondering because they're in my bean stash labeled as 'Newgrower'.


----------



## Tim Fox (Jul 30, 2020)

NewGrower2011 said:


> Working on finalizing my next batch of soil for my SIP(s) and curious of the pros' & cons' of running light aeration vs heavy aeration in the mix when it specifically comes to running SIPs. Furthermore, the wick itself and the amount of aeration/material. I think we're in a little different shoes than some of the other traditional advise so wondering what this crowd thought.
> 
> I think last time around I ran a few variants on the wicks which amounted to how much perlite was used and where in the wick it was used. I think, but have no real data to support it, that the ones where the wick had a lot of aeration didn't work as well.
> 
> ...


I would not ad things to the soil to attempt aireation , the air gap gives the roots all the air they need, I started compacting my soil to maximize the soil density, having grown flood drain and hempy buckets the air roots will supply the plant with all oxygen the plant can possibly uptake,


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## bodhipop (Jul 30, 2020)

What's the longest you folks have left your SIP alone after filling up the res? I've read that one guy on here did not add water for over 20 days and counting which is insane. This is my main focus. I've loved living soils for a long time but have also enjoyed DWC runs for their growth rates (not the soul-less buds) I'm just trying to decide how big of a tote I'm going to need to leave them be for around 10-12 days at a time for two plants filling up a 4x4. I'm guessing the 14-16 gallon totes aren't going to make the cut. The earthbox says it holds 1 cubic foot of soil. Is there two sizes? Please feel free to throw up a link of any earthbox/growbox you recommend if there's a deal out there.

Plastic leeching really does come to mind with these setups. No synthetics or heat would keep any leeching to a minimum but if there's an expert on plastic.. I'd love to hear from you.

Most walmart Totes are PP and LDPE, which is more safe? My DWC buckets are HDPE which is what I thought was the best. I would love to find a BRUTE Rubbermaid food grade tote but am not sure what type that is.. but they look dope.


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## CannaOnerStar (Jul 31, 2020)

bodhipop said:


> What's the longest you folks have left your SIP alone after filling up the res? I've read that one guy on here did not add water for over 20 days and counting which is insane. This is my main focus. I've loved living soils for a long time but have also enjoyed DWC runs for their growth rates (not the soul-less buds) I'm just trying to decide how big of a tote I'm going to need to leave them be for around 10-12 days at a time for two plants filling up a 4x4. I'm guessing the 14-16 gallon totes aren't going to make the cut. The earthbox says it holds 1 cubic foot of soil. Is there two sizes? Please feel free to throw up a link of any earthbox/growbox you recommend if there's a deal out there.
> 
> Plastic leeching really does come to mind with these setups. No synthetics or heat would keep any leeching to a minimum but if there's an expert on plastic.. I'd love to hear from you.
> 
> Most walmart Totes are PP and LDPE, which is more safe? My DWC buckets are HDPE which is what I thought was the best. I would love to find a BRUTE Rubbermaid food grade tote but am not sure what type that is.. but they look dope.


Biotabs are spec'd for autopots, which are this sort of SIP technique. The point of biotabs is that they are basically supersoil incredients you can mix with for example coco or soil or coco-soil mix. So you could basically make a super soil coco SIP grow with them and only have to feed water(altho some PK boost and maybe some supervit etc in res tank could give you some extra). However if you only use coco and no soil at all, there isnt material for the microbes to turn into nutrients if the biotabs run out(over a really long veg for example). So with long vegs it might be good idea to mix some soil in there and not pure coco-perlite/clay pebbles mix.


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## NewGrower2011 (Jul 31, 2020)

Hawg Wild said:


> Man did you make some Double Strawberry Diesel f2s some years ago? Just wondering because they're in my bean stash labeled as 'Newgrower'.


Nope, wasn't me. I'm not anywhere near a breeder level of experience. My only seeds happened by accident. ;-p


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## NewGrower2011 (Jul 31, 2020)

Tim Fox said:


> I would not ad things to the soil to attempt aireation , the air gap gives the roots all the air they need, I started compacting my soil to maximize the soil density, having grown flood drain and hempy buckets the air roots will supply the plant with all oxygen the plant can possibly uptake,


That makes sense; I think the aeration in my wicks actually hindered the wicking effect and I was planning on sticking with a denser material in the wicks for sure. Was even considering using pure coco or coco mixed in with my current soil batch.


----------



## NewGrower2011 (Jul 31, 2020)

bodhipop said:


> What's the longest you folks have left your SIP alone after filling up the res? I've read that one guy on here did not add water for over 20 days and counting which is insane. This is my main focus. I've loved living soils for a long time but have also enjoyed DWC runs for their growth rates (not the soul-less buds) I'm just trying to decide how big of a tote I'm going to need to leave them be for around 10-12 days at a time for two plants filling up a 4x4. I'm guessing the 14-16 gallon totes aren't going to make the cut. The earthbox says it holds 1 cubic foot of soil. Is there two sizes? Please feel free to throw up a link of any earthbox/growbox you recommend if there's a deal out there.
> 
> Plastic leeching really does come to mind with these setups. No synthetics or heat would keep any leeching to a minimum but if there's an expert on plastic.. I'd love to hear from you.
> 
> Most walmart Totes are PP and LDPE, which is more safe? My DWC buckets are HDPE which is what I thought was the best. I would love to find a BRUTE Rubbermaid food grade tote but am not sure what type that is.. but they look dope.


Using the Rubbermaid Brute Totes like I used I ended up with approx 6-7gal rez and the top tote was a 14gal so that's a good bit of soil and water. I know I could easily leave mine be for many days but I just kept fucking with things so that's on me. 

Also, those Rubbermaid Totes specifically are food-safe I believe; That was a big plus for me. Sure they cost a bit more but I wanted durable and safe. This time around I dropped a bit to buy a big ass sheet of that EPDM pond liner as my research leads me to understand/believe it is food safe as well. That just leaves the PVC pipes, the corrugated pipe and the PVC flanges I used as the only non-food safe parts.

If you really wanted to be damn sure you could leave for like 14 days all you really need to do is have a large enough rez on the bottom that you can install a float valve. Then you can have an external rez (gravity fed) to keep things topped off.


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## Deadhead13 (Jul 31, 2020)

I’m usually sure to top my EBs off every other day, same with the grobuckets, and I check daily as it gets hotter and or the plant grows.


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## Tim Fox (Jul 31, 2020)

NewGrower2011 said:


> That makes sense; I think the aeration in my wicks actually hindered the wicking effect and I was planning on sticking with a denser material in the wicks for sure. Was even considering using pure coco or coco mixed in with my current soil batch.


Yes trying to get air in your wicks will be counter productive


----------



## Tim Fox (Jul 31, 2020)

NewGrower2011 said:


> That makes sense; I think the aeration in my wicks actually hindered the wicking effect and I was planning on sticking with a denser material in the wicks for sure. Was even considering using pure coco or coco mixed in with my current soil batch.


I have always used the same soil in my wicks that I pack Into the entire sip , just good dense soil ,


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## Tim Fox (Jul 31, 2020)

NewGrower2011 said:


> Using the Rubbermaid Brute Totes like I used I ended up with approx 6-7gal rez and the top tote was a 14gal so that's a good bit of soil and water. I know I could easily leave mine be for many days but I just kept fucking with things so that's on me.
> 
> Also, those Rubbermaid Totes specifically are food-safe I believe; That was a big plus for me. Sure they cost a bit more but I wanted durable and safe. This time around I dropped a bit to buy a big ass sheet of that EPDM pond liner as my research leads me to understand/believe it is food safe as well. That just leaves the PVC pipes, the corrugated pipe and the PVC flanges I used as the only non-food safe parts.
> 
> If you really wanted to be damn sure you could leave for like 14 days all you really need to do is have a large enough rez on the bottom that you can install a float valve. Then you can have an external rez (gravity fed) to keep things topped off.


You can also have an external res that doesn't require a float valve by just putting a second container next to the sip and put a small hose between the two and water will seek level, I think I posted videos on this earlier in the thread


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## bodhipop (Jul 31, 2020)

NewGrower2011 said:


> Using the Rubbermaid Brute Totes like I used I ended up with approx 6-7gal rez and the top tote was a 14gal so that's a good bit of soil and water. I know I could easily leave mine be for many days but I just kept fucking with things so that's on me.
> 
> Also, those Rubbermaid Totes specifically are food-safe I believe; That was a big plus for me. Sure they cost a bit more but I wanted durable and safe. This time around I dropped a bit to buy a big ass sheet of that EPDM pond liner as my research leads me to understand/believe it is food safe as well. That just leaves the PVC pipes, the corrugated pipe and the PVC flanges I used as the only non-food safe parts.
> 
> If you really wanted to be damn sure you could leave for like 14 days all you really need to do is have a large enough rez on the bottom that you can install a float valve. Then you can have an external rez (gravity fed) to keep things topped off.


Thank you for your insight! I'm going to spend the extra on the Brute's and EPDM for sure. Where did you snag your Brute's? I hear they are at some Lowe's but that's it.


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## NewGrower2011 (Aug 1, 2020)

That's how it was for me, one Lowes has them and the other does not. So far (knock on wood) they've continued to carry them so there must be local demand like a restaurant or business or something. And there's always the online ordering path but items like that shipping can kill if you don't have something like Amazon Prime or etc. 

Also companies like ULINE carry a lot of useful stuff that might be worth eyeballing. Order a catalog, it makes good reading material for the porcelain throne room.


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## Reefslinger (Aug 23, 2020)

My first SIP grow and my first grow in over 20 yrs.


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## Reefslinger (Aug 23, 2020)

9 days later she seems to be settling in.


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## Reefslinger (Aug 23, 2020)

But I seem to have a fungus nat prob. How to deal with this n a sip and not wanting to mess up my mycelium(sp) layer?


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## Polyuro (Aug 23, 2020)

Reefslinger said:


> But I seem to have a fungus nat prob. How to deal with this n a sip and not wanting to mess up my mycelium(sp) layer?


DE. Once every week or so top dress.


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## Reefslinger (Aug 23, 2020)

Polyuro said:


> DE. Once every week or so top dress.


Perfect! Thanks. How heavy of a layer is reasonable? I noticed the flys a couple days ago.


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## Polyuro (Aug 23, 2020)

Like powered sugar on a cake


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## Polyuro (Aug 23, 2020)

Reefslinger said:


> Perfect! Thanks. How heavy of a layer is reasonable? I noticed the flys a couple days ago.


Yes. It will take a couple weeks. They won’t disappear like David copperfwild lol. Don’t go light on them. Might foliar spray Too if u r not in Flower.


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## Reefslinger (Aug 23, 2020)

is this the stuff?









Bedding Freshener - Barn Fresh Diatomaceous Earth - 18 kg


A healthy, natural way to control ammonia and odours, Barn Fresh diatomaceous earth bedding freshener is an easy and safe way to improve the living c...




www.rona.ca


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## Polyuro (Aug 23, 2020)

Reefslinger said:


> is this the stuff?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is DE. Should work as long as it is very fine powder


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## Bignutes (Aug 30, 2020)

bodhipop said:


> What's the longest you folks have left your SIP alone after filling up the res? I've read that one guy on here did not add water for over 20 days and counting which is insane.
> 
> Plastic leeching really does come to mind with these setups. No synthetics or heat would keep any leeching to a minimum but if there's an expert on plastic.. I'd love to hear from you.
> 
> Most walmart Totes are PP and LDPE, which is more safe? My DWC buckets are HDPE which is what I thought was the best. I would love to find a BRUTE Rubbermaid food grade tote but am not sure what type that is.. but they look dope.


I did 40 days without watering.


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## Polyuro (Aug 30, 2020)

bodhipop said:


> What's the longest you folks have left your SIP alone after filling up the res? I've read that one guy on here did not add water for over 20 days and counting which is insane. This is my main focus. I've loved living soils for a long time but have also enjoyed DWC runs for their growth rates (not the soul-less buds) I'm just trying to decide how big of a tote I'm going to need to leave them be for around 10-12 days at a time for two plants filling up a 4x4. I'm guessing the 14-16 gallon totes aren't going to make the cut. The earthbox says it holds 1 cubic foot of soil. Is there two sizes? Please feel free to throw up a link of any earthbox/growbox you recommend if there's a deal out there.
> 
> Plastic leeching really does come to mind with these setups. No synthetics or heat would keep any leeching to a minimum but if there's an expert on plastic.. I'd love to hear from you.
> 
> Most walmart Totes are PP and LDPE, which is more safe? My DWC buckets are HDPE which is what I thought was the best. I would love to find a BRUTE Rubbermaid food grade tote but am not sure what type that is.. but they look dope.


Use LDPE over PP. It’s made for waterproofing and is “ph proof.”


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## Deadhead13 (Aug 30, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> I did 40 days without watering.


I thought a regular Earthbox held more that 1 ft of soil, I have the EB jr that holds 1 ft.


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## natureboygrower (Aug 30, 2020)

Deadhead13 said:


> I thought a regular Earthbox held more that 1 ft of soil, I have the EB jr that holds 1 ft.


They do. I believe the original EB holds 15 gallons of soil, or 2 cubic feet.


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## bodhipop (Aug 30, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> I did 40 days without watering.


That's amazing. What size container do you use? Anything to help understand your individual setup would be much appreciated.


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## natureboygrower (Aug 30, 2020)

bodhipop said:


> That's amazing. What size container do you use? Anything to help understand your individual setup would be much appreciated.


I've got two plants 5 weeks into flower sharing a 15gal EB that requires a gallon of h20 a day. The reservoir holds 3 gallons total. That being said, I have held off watering completely the last week before harvest before. It's not good for the 'system' to run completely dry mid grow.


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## Tim Fox (Aug 30, 2020)

I have two sips a full size earthbox and a full size growbox , they both hold the big 1.5 cubic feet of soil, but the earth box has a res about twice as large, so I can go further between watering at least 4 days if not more , the biggest advantage I found to the growbox was the fill Port on the front, and because you fill it on the front there is an opening with a lip on it and you can see the water level and you can see the water roots, so when you fill it you can stop before it overflows and you don't have a mess like you do with the earthbox , it was nice ditching the fill tube and the over flow port underneath


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## Bignutes (Sep 2, 2020)

bodhipop said:


> That's amazing. What size container do you use? Anything to help understand your individual setup would be much appreciated.


40 litre rez, search my posts


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 2, 2020)

Whats up sip folks been a while! Just figured I would stop in and say hey all! Here is a pic of on of my SIPs running thunder wookie from bodhi. Hope all are doing well!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 15, 2020)

thread is still rather dead I see well, I have no worries posting into the aether! Here are some bodhi strains in some 5 gallon SIPs. I think i am going to start trying a perpetual 5 gallon SIP grow. 4 weeks seedling, 4 weeks veg 8 weeks flower. Atm I have 2 rooms with a 3rd and 4th about to be constructed ( the 4th is just my new office for work for now) I have cob fixtures for the 2 rooms (one runs 10 cxb3590s in a 3 x 5 approx. The other runs 15 cxb3590s im a 5x5) i have been looking at getting the mass medical custom diy kit from rapid led as another flower light. But anyway here are some pics. The purples are heavenly hashplant.


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## Tim Fox (Sep 15, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> thread is still rather dead I see well, I have no worries posting into the aether! Here are some bodhi strains in some 5 gallon SIPs. I think i am going to start trying a perpetual 5 gallon SIP grow. 4 weeks seedling, 4 weeks veg 8 weeks flower. Atm I have 2 rooms with a 3rd and 4th about to be constructed ( the 4th is just my new office for work for now) I have cob fixtures for the 2 rooms (one runs 10 cxb3590s in a 3 x 5 approx. The other runs 15 cxb3590s im a 5x5) i have been looking at getting the mass medical custom diy kit from rapid led as another flower light. But anyway here are some pics. The purples are heavenly hashplant.


Hey buddy happy w see you growing looks really good


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## Polyuro (Sep 15, 2020)

It's a daily watering cycle for those big girls in 5 gal sips. They look great my man! Have a few bodhi too. Lavender Aura around a month in flower. What bodhi u growing?

Here are a couple cookies & cream f3's:


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 16, 2020)

Polyuro said:


> It's a daily watering cycle for those big girls in 5 gal sips. They look great my man! Have a few bodhi too. Lavender Aura around a month in flower. What bodhi u growing?
> 
> Here are a couple cookies & cream f3's:


Atm some purple wookie, thunder wookie and heavenly hash plant. Got some black raspberry, nice sunshine and magenta hash plant on the way.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 16, 2020)

Polyuro said:


> It's a daily watering cycle for those big girls in 5 gal sips. They look great my man! Have a few bodhi too. Lavender Aura around a month in flower. What bodhi u growing?
> 
> Here are a couple cookies & cream f3's:


Honestly this huge bitch is the real water hog atm lolz 

This is thinder wookie in a approx 15 gallon sip straight from the original pdfs in the beginning of this thread. I vegges her way too long so a lot of the big fans are dying off due to very spent soil im sure. Just giving top dressed teas and very light fox farms beastie blooms and cal mag phed to 6 in the rez every other time I fill it.


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## Polyuro (Sep 16, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Honestly this huge bitch is the real water hog atm lolz
> 
> This is thinder wookie in a approx 15 gallon sip straight from the original pdfs in the beginning of this thread. I vegges her way too long so a lot of the big fans are dying off due to very spent soil im sure. Just giving top dressed teas and very light fox farms beastie blooms and cal mag phed to 6 in the rez every other time I fill it.


Very nice! Looks very happy. I ran into feed problems too and ended up using @Richard Drysift suggestion of jobes evergreen tree spikes. Easy peazy. Just add right before flower for 2 months. If flowering longer then another at 1.5-2 month mark.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 16, 2020)

Polyuro said:


> Very nice! Looks very happy. I ran into feed problems too and ended up using @Richard Drysift suggestion of jobes evergreen tree spikes. Easy peazy. Just add right before flower for 2 months. If flowering longer then another at 1.5-2 month mark.


I will just ride this one our since only about a month or less to go. But if the five gallons get deficient maybe I will try that out. I do still have a bunch of old fox farms bottles but not sure if they are worth even trying at this point since they are so old.


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## NewGrower2011 (Sep 18, 2020)

Setup for my next SIP run and thought I'd share with this crowd that for this round I'm trying with a new soil mix. Hoping it's not too hot or too high in P as I used seabird guano this time - a little powder form and some pellet for slower release.

The big variable this time is I'm actually packing the soil fairly firm all the way down into the wick. No alternate media for the wick just the same straight soil mix and tamped down really firm into the wick itself. If you look at the 'feet' on my wicks you can see why I wanted this packed so tightly. I meant to put something in there to help prevent soil from falling out - hoping compaction works.

My last run was ho-hum from trying a coco/ewc mix and using other goodies to feed but I slacked - might as well be doing hydro at that point; So back to super soil for me. Same 2 phenos I've been running so it will be interesting to see if I can top my prior best which was a modestly hot soil mix and towards mid/end flower I was dropping goodies from NFTG in there with some teas.

Also for this time around I have my 'shower caps' from EPDM rubber sheets I'm going to cut out and use large rubber bands to secure around the totes to see if I can keep the top of my mix from drying out like I had from going open-air previously.

The plants are actually clones that sat around for over a year in little 2 gal smart pots - which suck to transplant from btw - and have very well established root balls. Didn't destroy them too badly getting them out of smart pots. From now on cloth pots are for moms and final planting only.


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## NewGrower2011 (Sep 18, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I will just ride this one our since only about a month or less to go. But if the five gallons get deficient maybe I will try that out. I do still have a bunch of old fox farms bottles but not sure if they are worth even trying at this point since they are so old.


I'm in the same boat, sitting on a big ass bottle of Botanicare Kind Bloom that I haven't used since starting organics and then SIPs. I might micro-dose with it here & there even with organics... mild enough to not kill the herd. Question would be bottom-feed and put into rez or as part of a top-feed. The NFTG goodies I used being organics I was planning to use top-feeding. Along with SLF-100, Photo+, etc.


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## Hash Hound (Sep 18, 2020)

I'm using the insert from an old SIP Eco Grow Pot, so far so good. It's referred as SWICK over at 420mag (Sub-irrigated WICK)

I used a piece of an old bag for the wick. It's in a blend of 2/3 Promix Organic 1/3 Pittmoss (recycled news paper soil substitute)


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## Tim Fox (Sep 18, 2020)

NewGrower2011 said:


> Setup for my next SIP run and thought I'd share with this crowd that for this round I'm trying with a new soil mix. Hoping it's not too hot or too high in P as I used seabird guano this time - a little powder form and some pellet for slower release.
> 
> The big variable this time is I'm actually packing the soil fairly firm all the way down into the wick. No alternate media for the wick just the same straight soil mix and tamped down really firm into the wick itself. If you look at the 'feet' on my wicks you can see why I wanted this packed so tightly. I meant to put something in there to help prevent soil from falling out - hoping compaction works.
> 
> ...


I have been packing my soil into my sips all along after watching the earthbox videos , packing in the soil works awesome, I have been wrapping my top with garbage bags the big black ones yup soil stays moist all the way to the top


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## Lightgreen2k (Sep 18, 2020)

Back to the sip thread, it's been awhile since I have posted in here. Anyhow here are a few shots of my sip and plants in action.


Sips are fun once you get everything in swing with your growing medium and wicking system down.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 20, 2020)

Just some pics for the gardens. Hope everyone had a great weekend! I let the big one veg for too long so probably next to nothing as far a nutes left hence all the droppage.


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## NewGrower2011 (Sep 21, 2020)

Okay fellow sip fans, I'm about to finish setup for the next run and I'm finalizing my thoughts on the 'shower cap' to be used which has me pondering a couple things and I thought maybe someone could drop some actual science or facts to persuade me one way or the other.

So I bought heavy 45mil EPDM to make good tough re-usable covers, but now I've got myself second guessing how thick and more importantly how 'tightly' the seal should be made. 

If plant roots need their oxygen, if you over do it wouldn't that potentially starve them? I have a nice big pipe going down into my rez but when the waterline is above the bottom that'd be sealed. Plus I packed my soil fairly firm this time so I don't see them getting much if any O2 from the rez.

The next question then, was how much air-gap on top to leave? 1" or 2" is what I'm guessing. Like with the bottom and rez you want an 'air gap' I'm assuming.

I'm looking to use the cap to retain moisture as in prior runs the top was always drying out due to my fans.

I did plan to include some 1/2" PVC piping and T's to make a 'top feed' ring for use with NFTG, SLF-100, Photo+ and the likes. That would have a few holes for those heavier organic nutes to flow through and I'm thinking this might be adequate ventilation under the rubber cap.

Thoughts?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 21, 2020)

NewGrower2011 said:


> Okay fellow sip fans, I'm about to finish setup for the next run and I'm finalizing my thoughts on the 'shower cap' to be used which has me pondering a couple things and I thought maybe someone could drop some actual science or facts to persuade me one way or the other.
> 
> So I bought heavy 45mil EPDM to make good tough re-usable covers, but now I've got myself second guessing how thick and more importantly how 'tightly' the seal should be made.
> 
> ...


Personally I have never used a cap. The only reason for one imo is to keep the soil moist and for that I use compost teas top dressed or plain water. I have also done a bokashi mulch as well but was not a big fan, as that has to be kept moist much more so then the soil to continue the fungal growth. Many ways to skin a cat though as they say. Just my two cents  welcome to the SIP club!


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## NewGrower2011 (Sep 21, 2020)

I may consider a mulch instead, I had considered the used coco from my last SIP run but was worried it might actually wick the moisture away even worse if I didn't keep top-watering. 

I may do the combination of an automated drip of plain-old-water but I was trying to make damned sure there was zero chances of overflowing & flooding. Luckily these Brute totes give me a big ass rez as long as I leave a couple gallons to buffer any runaway pump or siphoning woes if I don't add an air bleed valve or whatever. If I rig things to allow the manual feed of heavy organic liquids like you'd have with NFTG then making that pull from a bucket & pump would be easy enough.

Maybe I'll just use that cap to get the first heavy mycellium mat going, we'll see how it plays out. Laziness can easily become a factor - the appeal of SIP(s) for me is the ez factor. I'm just looking for those little one-time xtra efforts at setup time that pays off.


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## NewGrower2011 (Sep 21, 2020)

Alternately, I still have more super soil mixed and I can just fill it to the brim and if the top gets dry, so what... When I wet it again that's more nutrients to seep back down where the root mass can access things; It's just the sacrificial layer.

My last planned step is to take some malted barley, EM1 and some Kashi Blend from Build-a-Soil to try and get that fuzzy white beard going but I think my high P content might prevent the fungal growth as when I was letting things cook I had some fuzz from EM1 before I added my seabird guano. After that I never could get the fuzzies back. 

Earlier today I gave a nice root drench of Azos & Mycos WP with a little fulvic on top of the prior use of Recharge & some yucca meal in the planting hole so I hope my bennies & fungus are more than kick started. Sometime right before mid-flower I'll look into the P focused microbes and might try the Tribus this time instead of Mammoth P.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 21, 2020)

NewGrower2011 said:


> Alternately, I still have more super soil mixed and I can just fill it to the brim and if the top gets dry, so what... When I wet it again that's more nutrients to seep back down where the root mass can access things; It's just the sacrificial layer.
> 
> My last planned step is to take some malted barley, EM1 and some Kashi Blend from Build-a-Soil to try and get that fuzzy white beard going but I think my high P content might prevent the fungal growth as when I was letting things cook I had some fuzz from EM1 before I added my seabird guano. After that I never could get the fuzzies back.
> 
> Earlier today I gave a nice root drench of Azos & Mycos WP with a little fulvic on top of the prior use of Recharge & some yucca meal in the planting hole so I hope my bennies & fungus are more than kick started. Sometime right before mid-flower I'll look into the P focused microbes and might try the Tribus this time instead of Mammoth P.


Sounds like you have a solid plan man! Keep us up to date how it goes!


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## Lightgreen2k (Sep 21, 2020)

NewGrower2011 said:


> Alternately, I still have more super soil mixed and I can just fill it to the brim and if the top gets dry, so what... When I wet it again that's more nutrients to seep back down where the root mass can access things; It's just the sacrificial layer.
> 
> My last planned step is to take some malted barley, EM1 and some Kashi Blend from Build-a-Soil to try and get that fuzzy white beard going but I think my high P content might prevent the fungal growth as when I was letting things cook I had some fuzz from EM1 before I added my seabird guano. After that I never could get the fuzzies back.
> 
> Earlier today I gave a nice root drench of Azos & Mycos WP with a little fulvic on top of the prior use of Recharge & some yucca meal in the planting hole so I hope my bennies & fungus are more than kick started. Sometime right before mid-flower I'll look into the P focused microbes and might try the Tribus this time instead of Mammoth P.


You have a lot of ideas over the last few pages. I will say, less is more often times and the plants will do well with a super soil mix and myco's usually.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 21, 2020)

Lightgreen2k said:


> You have a lot of ideas over the last few pages. I will say, less is more often times and the plants will do well with a super soil mix and myco's usually.


I also subscribe to the K.I.S.S. method


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## NewGrower2011 (Sep 21, 2020)

Yeah, I'm wanting to see how far I can push things in a SIP. After having a great personal best run that set the bar higher so I know I've got to work some additional angles to get there or better again.


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## natureboygrower (Sep 21, 2020)

I use a a trash bag stretched drum tight over my EB held by bungee cords. It helps with gnats. Then I cut an x , plant, then tape a yellow sticky card right around my plant stem. I make my own compost which is great, but i do get gnats from time to time when i first bring it in. My last/current run was the best for not having gnats because I blocked all exits out of the soil while I waited for the hypoaspis miles to show up in the soil, which they always do. They also come free with my compost lol.


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## natureboygrower (Sep 21, 2020)

Im all about the KISS method too. A version of coots mix with homemade compost.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 21, 2020)

natureboygrower said:


> I use a a trash bag stretched drum tight over my EB held by bungee cords. It helps with gnats. Then I cut an x , plant, then tape a yellow sticky card right around my plant stem. I make my own compost which is great, but i do get gnats from time to time when i first bring it in. My last/current run was the best for not having gnats because I blocked all exits out of the soil while I waited for the hypoaspis miles to show up in the soil, which they always do. They also come free with my compost lol.


Adding a little neem meal to your compost might help with that i use that and dimateuos earth to get rid of any of those buggers!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 21, 2020)

NewGrower2011 said:


> Yeah, I'm wanting to see how far I can push things in a SIP. After having a great personal best run that set the bar higher so I know I've got to work some additional angles to get there or better again.


Awesome man! Like I said many different ways to get it done!


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## NewGrower2011 (Sep 22, 2020)

After 1 encounter with mites I've started taking preventative actions, and with soil I was paranoid so I've been using neem meal myself. These last couple times I've used the neem + karanja duo.

So far I think it's an awesome amendment and my only hesitation I have had with it was all the discussions around CHS and it's potential tie with neem use. But neem has been used for generations for multiple things so I'm leaning towards the "it's perfectly fine" camp. Same with azomite and the fears around Al being accumulated into the harvested product - but people have used azomite in veggie gardens for a very long time.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 22, 2020)

NewGrower2011 said:


> After 1 encounter with mites I've started taking preventative actions, and with soil I was paranoid so I've been using neem meal myself. These last couple times I've used the neem + karanja duo.
> 
> So far I think it's an awesome amendment and my only hesitation I have had with it was all the discussions around CHS and it's potential tie with neem use. But neem has been used for generations for multiple things so I'm leaning towards the "it's perfectly fine" camp. Same with azomite and the fears around Al being accumulated into the harvested product - but people have used azomite in veggie gardens for a very long time.


Yeah i think over use of those 2 products could have ill effects but yeah i am in the camp that they are fine in the quantities I am using both of those in my soils also.


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## Lightgreen2k (Sep 22, 2020)

This sip at current time has a few varieties. 
White Erkle
Yetti aka Loompa's Headband
Lemon Alien Dawg
And few more things ohhh yeah


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## Bignutes (Sep 22, 2020)

natureboygrower said:


> I use a a trash bag stretched drum tight over my EB held by bungee cords. It helps with gnats. Then I cut an x , plant, then tape a yellow sticky card right around my plant stem. I make my own compost which is great, but i do get gnats from time to time when i first bring it in. My last/current run was the best for not having gnats because I blocked all exits out of the soil while I waited for the hypoaspis miles to show up in the soil, which they always do. They also come free with my compost lol.


Use mosquito dunks


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 23, 2020)

Tried to get some close ups of thunder wookie yesterday... any advice on using these portable USB microscopes better? Mainly how the hell to stabilize the things lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 24, 2020)

Made up this compost tea brewer to replace my old "put an air stone in a bucket and hold it down with something heavy" method lolz. Also have a small aquarium heater in there since it is in my northern basement. Also come pics of the 5 gallon sip ladies from today. Looking nice! ( the pomegranate juice bottle has old worm bin run off in it.. and also added some dried crushed banana peals and some great white)


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 26, 2020)

So after about 36 hours... my thoughts on this brewer.... 1. It needs some kind of cover... 2. For the love of God put this in a water tight bottomed tote when running unless you want really good smelling compost tea all over...3. This thing is LOUD, make sure you have it somewhere that, that won't matter... and finally...wow does this thing seem to make foam!!! I think this is a great sign that this is much much better then ans air stone alone and it is very very easy to construct with the main cost being the air pump. Top dressed all the ladies with this beautiful tea today! Everyone looking great!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 26, 2020)

What do you guys think about a week more maybe?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 30, 2020)

here is a great pic i got today of some purple wookie. It's on day 42 today since flip to 12/12. These are in the 5 gallon SIPs and seem to be doing amazing! Hope all are well!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 4, 2020)

Wondering what everyone thinks of my soil recipe? Also I am looking to add possibly Gypsum to the mix but not sure in what ratio with this mix, also I am using LEDs so I want to have a really high availability of calcium and magnesium as it seems like LEDs (and from what I have read a lot on these forums) seem to make plants much more Cal-Mag hungry. I also have access to plenty of goat, rabbit, chicken, Turkey and Pig droppings as well as ground dried egg shells and banana peals to use. What do you all think?? thanks!

pete moss 7.5 gal
worm castings 3.75 gal
compost 3.75 gal
perlite 7.5 gal
lime 3 cups
glacial rock dust 12 cups
thats my base

then I mix my amendments together as below
kelp meal 6 cups
epsoma tomato tone 3 cups
alfalfa meal 3 cups
neem meal 3 cups
crab meal 3 cups
finely ground egg shells about 3 cups
azomite about a cup

I then take a total of 7.5 cups of the amendment mix and add it to the base and let it sit for at least 4 weeks...


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## Hash Hound (Oct 6, 2020)

How do you all mix your dry nutes/amendments into the soil for a sip?

Evenly through out the soil? Mostly on the bottom half? Mostly top?

I normally mix through out but was wondering if it would be better to have more on the bottom where the moisture is, but I watched the video where the guy put everything including the compost on top then covered and supposedly evaporated water drips back down through the stuff.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 7, 2020)

Hash Hound said:


> How do you all mix your dry nutes/amendments into the soil for a sip?
> 
> Evenly through out the soil? Mostly on the bottom half? Mostly top?
> 
> I normally mix through out but was wondering if it would be better to have more on the bottom where the moisture is, but I watched the video where the guy put everything including the compost on top then covered and supposedly evaporated water drips back down through the stuff.


Mix throughout but I only use straight peat moss in the wick. The original sip PDF I think does call for using the trenching method.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 7, 2020)

Thunder wookie by Bodhi picked on day 62. It was a very overgrown plant and vegged far too long ao there is a ton of larf. Might just have to get a press or some new bubble bags for that. Now we hang for 10 days in dark temp controlled room with just the small fan on the bottom going. I am on day 49 with the other room with another thunder wookie, some purple wookie, heavenly hash plant and 1 random wedding cake bag seed. Should be much less larf on them and they were well planned out. Next run is already in the works.. Black Raspberry by bodhi, some GLG freebies that are Deathstar x Apollo13 testers.


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## halfbreed421 (Oct 7, 2020)

NewGrower2011 said:


> Alternately, I still have more super soil mixed and I can just fill it to the brim and if the top gets dry, so what... When I wet it again that's more nutrients to seep back down where the root mass can access things; It's just the sacrificial layer.
> 
> My last planned step is to take some malted barley, EM1 and some Kashi Blend from Build-a-Soil to try and get that fuzzy white beard going but I think my high P content might prevent the fungal growth as when I was letting things cook I had some fuzz from EM1 before I added my seabird guano. After that I never could get the fuzzies back.
> 
> Earlier today I gave a nice root drench of Azos & Mycos WP with a little fulvic on top of the prior use of Recharge & some yucca meal in the planting hole so I hope my bennies & fungus are more than kick started. Sometime right before mid-flower I'll look into the P focused microbes and might try the Tribus this time instead of Mammoth P.


Some say the beneficial bacteria are more helpful for short term plants like this, like bacillus subtilis and trichoderma


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## Reefslinger (Oct 13, 2020)

Wondering if this is an excess of potassium. Gave her full flowering nutes(Gia green) sept 15 with the intention of putting her into 12/12 within the week. For different reasons got completely delayed and just started 12/12 last night but not before giving her another full top dressing of gai 2 days ago(keeping the feeding schedule of every 3 weeks). Thinking this might be big trouble. Should I be flushing? And if so how to do it with a sip? Should I scrape off the top dressing? (Lots of roots sitting on top so that might be rough on them) or maybe not worry about it as 12/12 has started and potassium will start to be absorbed quickly?


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## raggyb (Oct 15, 2020)

Reefslinger said:


> Wondering if this is an excess of potassium. Gave her full flowering nutes(Gia green) sept 15 with the intention of putting her into 12/12 within the week. For different reasons got completely delayed and just started 12/12 last night but not before giving her another full top dressing of gai 2 days ago(keeping the feeding schedule of every 3 weeks). Thinking this might be big trouble. Should I be flushing? And if so how to do it with a sip? Should I scrape off the top dressing? (Lots of roots sitting on top so that might be rough on them) or maybe not worry about it as 12/12 has started and potassium will start to be absorbed quickly?


I'm no pro but I guess not feeding any nutes for a long time it would flush itself out. Kind of the plant will decide to drink the water in the sip and not the nutes if too many nutes. I can't imagine actually flushing with a sip because your nutes will go into the res. Is gia green put in as dry powder or solution? I just don't want it leaching my res in my case. I might wet a top dress a little if you think it needs it but that's it.


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## Reefslinger (Oct 15, 2020)

raggyb said:


> I'm no pro but I guess not feeding any nutes for a long time it would flush itself out. Kind of the plant will decide to drink the water in the sip and not the nutes if too many nutes. I can't imagine actually flushing with a sip because your nutes will go into the res. Is gia green put in as dry powder or solution? I just don't want it leaching my res in my case. I might wet a top dress a little if you think it needs it but that's it.


Thanks raggyb. Gai green are dry amendments. There hasn’t been any change in the last 2 days so I think I’m going to leave well enough alone and see what happens. I’m glad I didn’t do anything rash. Lol


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## Reefslinger (Oct 15, 2020)

On a more positive note. This is quick critical + on day 1 and day 10 in her new sip. The speed of growth is fantastic!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 15, 2020)

Reefslinger said:


> On a more positive note. This is quick critical + on day 1 and day 10 in her new sip. The speed of growth is fantastic!


Looking nice man!


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## raggyb (Oct 15, 2020)

Reefslinger said:


> On a more positive note. This is quick critical + on day 1 and day 10 in her new sip. The speed of growth is fantastic!


Hmm, yours are growing faster than mine. Maybe I'll try a cover on one instead of mulch. As long as I don't get gnats. You aren't using CO2 are you?


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## Reefslinger (Oct 15, 2020)

raggyb said:


> Hmm, yours are growing faster than mine. Maybe I'll try a cover on one instead of mulch. As long as I don't get gnats. You aren't using CO2 are you?


Nope no co2 but I do struggle with gnats even though I mixed Karanja cake with the soil. Now I’m looking at trying mosquito dunks with fingers crossed.


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## raggyb (Oct 16, 2020)

Reefslinger said:


> Nope no co2 but I do struggle with gnats even though I mixed Karanja cake with the soil. Now I’m looking at trying mosquito dunks with fingers crossed.


still they look good and growing fast. I'm keeping it organic, so I only using sticky paper right now to fight them gnats, as well as fabric pots with mulch and no cover to keep the top dryer believing that it's less favorable for them. i seem to have the gnats in check. but don't get me wrong, my plants are growing better than ever just not as fast as yours.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 16, 2020)

raggyb said:


> still they look good and growing fast. I'm keeping it organic, so I only using sticky paper right now to fight them gnats, as well as fabric pots with mulch and no cover to keep the top dryer believing that it's less favorable for them. i seem to have the gnats in check. but don't get me wrong, my plants are growing better than ever just not as fast as yours.


I would just sprinkle some diatomaceous earth on the top of the soil and or mulch. Love the stuff!


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## raggyb (Oct 16, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I would just sprinkle some diatomaceous earth on the top of the soil and or mulch. Love the stuff!


yes. i had a little which I did put down on the worst spots and it helped. also some spiders have set up shop in the infected pot and they know better than to go in the de. it's funny though because it almost seems like a small number of fg's figure out not to go in the de, how not to fly into the spider's webs and not to land on the sticky paper. one sip I made was a weird afterthought of spare parts so it isn't quite right but it's a pot with a wick sitting across a tray of water. the water is exposed by the water inlet which enters thru a hole in the side of the tray. I saw live larvae in the water and so when they hatch they try to fly out to open air and get stuck in sticky paper that i covered the opening with. that worked well. 

maybe I put a 'cap' on one of the better sips and DE the top of that one to test and see how it works. but I'm suspicious DE doesn't work that well after it gets wet. it cakes up and doesn't completely cover the soil any more.


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## Reefslinger (Oct 16, 2020)

raggyb said:


> yes. i had a little which I did put down on the worst spots and it helped. also some spiders have set up shop in the infected pot and they know better than to go in the de. it's funny though because it almost seems like a small number of fg's figure out not to go in the de, how not to fly into the spider's webs and not to land on the sticky paper. one sip I made was a weird afterthought of spare parts so it isn't quite right but it's a pot with a wick sitting across a tray of water. the water is exposed by the water inlet which enters thru a hole in the side of the tray. I saw live larvae in the water and so when they hatch they try to fly out to open air and get stuck in sticky paper that i covered the opening with. that worked well.
> 
> maybe I put a 'cap' on one of the better sips and DE the top of that one to test and see how it works. but I'm suspicious DE doesn't work that well after it gets wet. it cakes up and doesn't completely cover the soil any more.


Hmmm I’m thinking of putting some DE on top of the cap. That’s one way they get out.


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## Reefslinger (Oct 16, 2020)

Reefslinger said:


> Hmmm I’m thinking of putting some DE on top of the cap. That’s one way they get out.


Oh and if you didn’t already know mosquito dunks are considered organic friendly and apparently pretty effective.


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## raggyb (Oct 17, 2020)

Reefslinger said:


> Oh and if you didn’t already know mosquito dunks are considered organic friendly and apparently pretty effective.


thanks, i didn't know.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 17, 2020)

At least trim jail comes with the good stuff...


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## HallowedOri (Nov 19, 2020)

Hey guys, new member, I noticed someone else in this thread also planned on doing a no-till 4x4 fabric raised bed using build a soils sip design but i stll had a few questions about it. Do i need to cut holes into the fabric for the 4 pvc pipes around the corners? (or can the water and oxygen properly permeate the material into the reservoir by just laying it flat against the material) im using a grassroots planter instead of the geo. another issue i see running no till with this system is how do I deal with the roots that grow into the res? how do i gauge how much water to add to a system like that since i cant see the res under? i know im suppose to have a 1 inch gap, so should I make some sort of hole in the low profile tray? will there be enough oxygen if the bed is completely over the reserv even with the 1 inch gap like in B.A.S's design? i could up the tray size so that i can visibly see the water line/ add more water plus im assuming more airflow since the bed wouldnt be covering it completely, but then i would probably run into humidity issues in flower no? also most people ive seen use swicks say to use perlite but i assume ill need lava rock or river stone considering how heavy the bed will be but do those keep the water non stagnant as nicely as perlite does?(with out em1 even tho i will be using it religiously)


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## HallowedOri (Nov 20, 2020)

just read through all 129 pages, nevermind on the perlite question but still curious about most of my other ones. I am going to need to put the bed on some sort of pumice or perlite just because the weight will need to be held up by something, that being said will i need to cut holes and use net pots like everyone else suggested or will the pumice touching the bottom of the cloth bed be enough for capillary action like SWICK watering methods. upping the tray size seems like the obvious answer as far as being able to see the water level and allowing more air through but then im probably asking for all sorts of bacteria and stuff if its uncovered correct? super divided on the 4x4 vs 5x5 tray. ( i think the 4x4 might get ample enough air just from the 4 pvc tubes on each corner, and maybe i can always hook up an air pump straight to the pvc and just push fresh air down towards the 1 inch gap)


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## HallowedOri (Nov 20, 2020)

also something i forgot that i dont think was ever brought up anywhere in here. i know people use the cover to keep there soil moist up top, but does it need to be a plastic cover? i use cover crops, straw with mushroom mycelium, and inoculated mulch, will this be enough?


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## Hash Hound (Nov 20, 2020)

from what I understand the plastic makes it sweat and the water then goes back down watering from the top


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## HallowedOri (Nov 20, 2020)

I would still be applying compost teas and stuff from the top to keep it moist, but to negate compaction or over watering i will just be using higher concentrations with less water, i guess just misting the top as a root "drench" sort of. I still want to keep worms in something like this, and i really enjoy cover crop. i plan on having a 3/5 gallon bucket in the center with holes drilled into it and no bottom that i drop in bokashi / plant trimmings, letting the worms come in and spread it out sort of like the avocado tek, this would probably be annoying to deal with if i had to uncover the entire bed to get to the middle


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## HallowedOri (Nov 21, 2020)

Going to go ahead and not add net pots just because i think itll be wicking from the entire bottom anyway because of the perlite/pumice bed. still not sure if i bust the 4 corner pvc through the cloth tho, would prefer not to but not sure how air flow will be. as far as the roots going through the bed im just going to give the first run a try and stress about cleaning it later. but i have seen some divide over adding the air stones, should I be doing this just because I dont have a 100% way to guarantee i have the 1 inch gap yet? or will this just make the roots want to grow into the reservoir making the cleanup even harder then its already going to be? Very sorry for spamming this chat, will be putting the bed up monday


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Nov 21, 2020)

HallowedOri said:


> Going to go ahead and not add net pots just because i think itll be wicking from the entire bottom anyway because of the perlite/pumice bed. still not sure if i bust the 4 corner pvc through the cloth tho, would prefer not to but not sure how air flow will be. as far as the roots going through the bed im just going to give the first run a try and stress about cleaning it later. but i have seen some divide over adding the air stones, should I be doing this just because I dont have a 100% way to guarantee i have the 1 inch gap yet? or will this just make the roots want to grow into the reservoir making the cleanup even harder then its already going to be? Very sorry for spamming this chat, will be putting the bed up monday


Let me read up here...


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Nov 21, 2020)

HallowedOri said:


> also something i forgot that i dont think was ever brought up anywhere in here. i know people use the cover to keep there soil moist up top, but does it need to be a plastic cover? i use cover crops, straw with mushroom mycelium, and inoculated mulch, will this be enough?


Yes you can for sure you grow Kashi or inoculated mulch you will just have to keep it moist. If you are doing no til though I would consider some kind of nitrogen fixing cover crop like clover.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Nov 21, 2020)

HallowedOri said:


> Going to go ahead and not add net pots just because i think itll be wicking from the entire bottom anyway because of the perlite/pumice bed. still not sure if i bust the 4 corner pvc through the cloth tho, would prefer not to but not sure how air flow will be. as far as the roots going through the bed im just going to give the first run a try and stress about cleaning it later. but i have seen some divide over adding the air stones, should I be doing this just because I dont have a 100% way to guarantee i have the 1 inch gap yet? or will this just make the roots want to grow into the reservoir making the cleanup even harder then its already going to be? Very sorry for spamming this chat, will be putting the bed up monday


Yes to the net pots... I would not break the fabric if you can help it...as far as roots I think you should be able to add something later that can eat those away... I would avoid air stones... I have tried them in sips and they have no effects. Good luck on this build man it sounds very interesting!


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## HallowedOri (Nov 21, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yes to the net pots... I would not break the fabric if you can help it...as far as roots I think you should be able to add something later that can eat those away... I would avoid air stones... I have tried them in sips and they have no effects. Good luck on this build man it sounds very interesting!


Thank you for your response! as far as using net pots how would i implement this in a perlite/pumice bed without cutting holes into the fabric, my reservoir is going to be a hydro tray so its not very tall but its around 33 gallons without the perlite. I know SWICK method just lays fabric pots on top of perlite, and im basically just a huge 4x4 fabric pot in a perlite bed (fingers crossed the cloth on this specific bed wicks). and yes clover is awesome, im using a mix of 12 different cover crops with a few different clovers in there, was also thinking maybe lemon balm for pests


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Nov 21, 2020)

HallowedOri said:


> Thank you for your response! as far as using net pots how would i implement this in a perlite/pumice bed without cutting holes into the fabric, my reservoir is going to be a hydro tray so its not very tall but its around 33 gallons without the perlite. I know SWICK method just lays fabric pots on top of perlite, and im basically just a huge 4x4 fabric pot in a perlite bed (fingers crossed the cloth on this specific bed wicks). and yes clover is awesome, im using a mix of 12 different cover crops with a few different clovers in there, was also thinking maybe lemon balm for pests


Yeah I guess you would have to cut the fabric for net pots but it the entire fabric is touching the perlite you might be ok... I guess are you using all perlite or is there some vermiculite mixed in? I am not sure how well perlite alone will wick all the way up into the fabric... I might cut the fabric and sew or glue the net pots to the fabric if it was me then you will have wicks to the bottom of the rez.


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## HallowedOri (Nov 21, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yeah I guess you would have to cut the fabric for net pots but it the entire fabric is touching the perlite you might be ok... I guess are you using all perlite or is there some vermiculite mixed in? I am not sure how well perlite alone will wick all the way up into the fabric... I might cut the fabric and sew or glue the net pots to the fabric if it was me then you will have wicks to the bottom of the rez.


It would be half perlite and half volcanic pumice( almost did strictly perlite but was worried about it just squishing under the weight). I do have a ton of vermiculite on hand tho if that would help? just worried about losing water volume. Im not sure if links are allowed or not sorry if they aren't, https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/swick-watering-systems-letting-the-plant-water-itself.244149/ lots of people use just perlite and keep the inch and seem to do fine with fabric (not sure if my fabric is the same yet) so its able to wick somewhat from what ive seen. it probably does it way less efficiently but maybe because its across the entire bottom of whatever medium maybe that makes up for it?


----------



## HallowedOri (Nov 21, 2020)

should i also be maybe mixing in more vermiculite to the top 1/3 layer of my soil to help retain moisture with the sips? I know it kinda breaks down over 2 years but not completely? in no till will this eventually become minerals or just turn to mush and make things harder


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Nov 21, 2020)

HallowedOri said:


> It would be half perlite and half volcanic pumice( almost did strictly perlite but was worried about it just squishing under the weight). I do have a ton of vermiculite on hand tho if that would help? just worried about losing water volume. Im not sure if links are allowed or not sorry if they aren't, https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/swick-watering-systems-letting-the-plant-water-itself.244149/ lots of people use just perlite and keep the inch and seem to do fine with fabric (not sure if my fabric is the same yet) so its able to wick somewhat from what ive seen. it probably does it way less efficiently but maybe because its across the entire bottom of whatever medium maybe that makes up for it?


Ah ok gotcha I am not very familiar with this bed method. Sounds like you are on point man!


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Nov 21, 2020)

HallowedOri said:


> should i also be maybe mixing in more vermiculite to the top 1/3 layer of my soil to help retain moisture with the sips? I know it kinda breaks down over 2 years but not completely? in no till will this eventually become minerals or just turn to mush and make things harder


If you have a cover crop and mulch you will be just fine man


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## HallowedOri (Nov 21, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Ah ok gotcha I am not very familiar with this bed method. Sounds like you are on point man!


I'm not either but im going to take a bunch of things I've seen from this method and that method and Frankenstein it together and post my progress on here!


----------



## HallowedOri (Dec 6, 2020)

Update! decided against the bucket in the middle, opted to put in a dark tote instead, i figured this would make it easier to apply drenches since its raised up more and water will have issues saturating. the tote has no bottom and is only burried an inch or two with plent of holes at the bottom. this way its not in the way of any roots below, i can feed the worms pretty easily this way without cover crop in the way. AND it solves a big problem i had, you guys were using bokashi with earthboxes since those mulch covers/ plastic container created anaerobic conditions for the kashi to work in, this box allows me to do the same thing atleast in that area(more bio-diversity i think is good?). i will be putting a plant in each corner and the scrog net about a foot above the box, the box also gives me space to put my temp/humidity gauge and possibly a fan or even a bug repelling crop in a container. Im going to use a dehumidifer with a hose to constantly feed the reservoir


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## HallowedOri (Dec 6, 2020)

I dont think my container is completely air tight tho, should I paint it black and try to seal it somehow? Or does it not matter that much since the soil would be getting oxygen either way from the bottom?


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## Humanrob (Dec 6, 2020)

HallowedOri said:


> I'm not either but im going to take a bunch of things I've seen from this method and that method and Frankenstein it together and post my progress on here!


I look forward to seeing how this goes -- do let us know.


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## Tstat (Dec 7, 2020)

After a long outdoor season, harvest, and cleanup, I decided to give SIPs another run through. 5 different strains, 5 SIPs


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## Tim Fox (Dec 7, 2020)

Tstat said:


> After a long outdoor season, harvest, and cleanup, I decided to give SIPs another run through. 5 different strains, 5 SIPs
> View attachment 4762081
> View attachment 4762082
> View attachment 4762083


Very nice, I am preparing for my winter grow right after Christmas, going to be using my earth box sip again


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## raggyb (Dec 7, 2020)

Tstat said:


> After a long outdoor season, harvest, and cleanup, I decided to give SIPs another run through. 5 different strains, 5 SIPs
> View attachment 4762081
> View attachment 4762082
> View attachment 4762083


that one in the middle with the big fat leaves is catching my eye!


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## Tstat (Dec 8, 2020)

raggyb said:


> that one in the middle with the big fat leaves is catching my eye!


Those are Bounty Hunter from Greenpoint.  Flipped to 12/12 today.


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## sudshead (Dec 9, 2020)

Exactly like I made mine. On the bottom I alternated the inputs to get a slight vortex. I am going to do a 4x4 tent. I am thinking one growbox/earthbox and one bucket sip and then one bucket sip without airholes as I am going to try and pump air into the water around wick area to force oxygen and water up through the soil (someone posted that a company is doing this. So will be 3 different test sites in the tent



meangreengrowinmachine said:


> So after about 36 hours... my thoughts on this brewer.... 1. It needs some kind of cover... 2. For the love of God put this in a water tight bottomed tote when running unless you want really good smelling compost tea all over...3. This thing is LOUD, make sure you have it somewhere that, that won't matter... and finally...wow does this thing seem to make foam!!! I think this is a great sign that this is much much better then ans air stone alone and it is very very easy to construct with the main cost being the air pump. Top dressed all the ladies with this beautiful tea today! Everyone looking great!


----------



## weedstoner420 (Dec 16, 2020)

My second SIP grow, nearing the home stretch. 2x GrowBoxes in a 3x3. Secret thanks to @Tim Fox for the inspiration


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## Tim Fox (Dec 17, 2020)

weedstoner420 said:


> View attachment 4770428
> 
> My second SIP grow, nearing the home stretch. 2x GrowBoxes in a 3x3. Secret thanks to @Tim Fox for the inspiration


Way cool, awesome looking plants, I am gearing up for my next grow in my growbox , I will get some clones right after Christmas, just waiting on my new fan speed controller to arrive


----------



## weedstoner420 (Dec 17, 2020)

Tim Fox said:


> Way cool, awesome looking plants, I am gearing up for my next grow in my growbox , I will get some clones right after Christmas, just waiting on my new fan speed controller to arrive


Right on, can't wait to see it! I was considering going organic about a year ago and a photo of the water roots in your GrowBox is what convinced me to give them a try. It's truly a great way to grow plants.


----------



## Tim Fox (Dec 17, 2020)

weedstoner420 said:


> Right on, can't wait to see it! I was considering going organic about a year ago and a photo of the water roots in your GrowBox is what convinced me to give them a try. It's truly a great way to grow plants.


Oh heck yeah, those water roots give it hydro like growth with the ease of soil just love it


----------



## sudshead (Dec 19, 2020)

Reefslinger said:


> Nope no co2 but I do struggle with gnats even though I mixed Karanja cake with the soil. Now I’m looking at trying mosquito dunks with fingers crossed.


I see the top is yellow but gnats strips also yellow - so you think the gnat strips would work better if the lids werent yellow?


----------



## Reefslinger (Dec 20, 2020)

sudshead said:


> I see the top is yellow but gnats strips also yellow - so you think the gnat strips would work better if the lids werent yellow?


Maybe. The strips worked great, I was just over run by the gnats.


----------



## Tim Fox (Dec 26, 2020)

So the next thing I need to do is make a tray so I can carry my sip loaded with soil and plants from outside into my bedroom without making a big mess like the last few grows


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 29, 2020)

So... I think I might be going over board here ans want some input. I want to flower about 11 plants. I suck shit at cloning and am using non feminized seeds. My idea is to start with 2 packs of bodhi seeds they come in packs of 11. Start them in 4 inch pots for a couple weeks. Then up pot them to 3 gallon SIPs to veg them. Then I would flip them for 1 week to see them. Cull the males, and up pot them to 5 gallon SIPs for flowering.... so my issue is this would seem to be roughly 121 gallons of soil ( if I got half females to up pot to 5 gallon SIPs). Then if I want to do this perpetually I would want at least twice that and re amend the last batch as I'm using the current batch... so I think I would get away with ..26 totes roughly with 13ish cooking at once... am I losing it over here? Hahaha


----------



## raggyb (Dec 30, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> So... I think I might be going over board here ans want some input. I want to flower about 11 plants. I suck shit at cloning and am using non feminized seeds. My idea is to start with 2 packs of bodhi seeds they come in packs of 11. Start them in 4 inch pots for a couple weeks. Then up pot them to 3 gallon SIPs to veg them. Then I would flip them for 1 week to see them. Cull the males, and up pot them to 5 gallon SIPs for flowering.... so my issue is this would seem to be roughly 121 gallons of soil ( if I got half females to up pot to 5 gallon SIPs). Then if I want to do this perpetually I would want at least twice that and re amend the last batch as I'm using the current batch... so I think I would get away with ..26 totes roughly with 13ish cooking at once... am I losing it over here? Hahaha


i figured once it's in a SIP it stays in the SIP like Vegas, but you're making me rethink this. You're going to have to chop off any water roots that went through the wick in order to repot it but I guess it could be ok to do that? I'm sexing regs before they go in the sip which i don't know if it's the best either plus they're looking abused up to that point which is another story.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 30, 2020)

raggyb said:


> i figured once it's in a SIP it stays in the SIP like Vegas, but you're making me rethink this. You're going to have to chop off any water roots that went through the wick in order to repot it but I guess it could be ok to do that? I'm sexing regs before they go in the sip which i don't know if it's the best either plus they're looking abused up to that point which is another story.


Yeah, this last run I used 1 gallon fabric pots and getting them to the point of sexing them.. yes the abuse is real lol. Trying to avoid that this next run, hence the 3 gallon SIPs for veg. I have never tried transplanting from a SIP but I think its worth a shot to keep the plants healthy... since I admittedly am somewhat lazy and have a lot going on besides my grow lol


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 30, 2020)

Just made up this as a template to make 22, 3 gallon SIPs for vegging 2 full packs of bodhi regs at once per run. Do we think a 3 inch net pot would be sufficient for these and keep in mind these will be JUST for veg.


----------



## raggyb (Dec 30, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Just made up this as a template to make 22, 3 gallon SIPs for vegging 2 full packs of bodhi regs at once per run. Do we think a 3 inch net pot would be sufficient for these and keep in mind these will be JUST for veg.


in my opinion 3 inch looks good ratio on that size, as long as it will reach the water with the 1" gap. I wove felt strips into some net pots to extend down further in case my water level got low. idk you might find that worth a try. it would depend on what you got happening there. seemed to me i should top water the first day or two and once the soil is wet through the capilary action would keep the wick going. but i'm no expert. i haven't tried it with a cap yet. i mulched instead. might try a cap on one sooner or later.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 30, 2020)

raggyb said:


> in my opinion 3 inch looks good ratio on that size, as long as it will reach the water with the 1" gap. I wove felt strips into some net pots to extend down further in case my water level got low. idk you might find that worth a try. it would depend on what you got happening there. seemed to me i should top water the first day or two and once the soil is wet through the capilary action would keep the wick going. but i'm no expert. i haven't tried it with a cap yet. i mulched instead. might try a cap on one sooner or later.


That sounds right as far as the capilary action, I mulch also and have no cap. I haven't made these 3 gallon ones at all yet so we will see.


----------



## raggyb (Dec 30, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> That sounds right as far as the capilary action, I mulch also and have no cap. I haven't made these 3 gallon ones at all yet so we will see.


good luck! i think you're the sip expert and i don't need to tell you but i can't keep everyone straight in my head these days.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 30, 2020)

raggyb said:


> good luck! i think you're the sip expert and i don't need to tell you but i can't keep everyone straight in my head these days.


I dont know that I am an expert but I have been growing for about 12 years and sips for at least the last half of it..they are just so damn easy! Most i have learned through trial and error hahaha... so my newest idea...in these bucket resiviors.. I want to Dremel out a very small strip maybe 1/4" x 6" ish up from the bottom of the bucket and then glue a small piece of clear plexi there with water proof food grade adhesive. That way you can see your exact water level at all times. I hate over watering and having stuff spilling all over because one plant took less water then the first few that I estimated off of


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 30, 2020)

raggyb said:


> good luck! i think you're the sip expert and i don't need to tell you but i can't keep everyone straight in my head these days.


Thanks for the compliment also man!


----------



## raggyb (Dec 30, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I dont know that I am an expert but I have been growing for about 12 years and sips for at least the last half of it..they are just so damn easy! Most i have learned through trial and error hahaha... so my newest idea...in these bucket resiviors.. I want to Dremel out a very small strip maybe 1/4" x 6" ish up from the bottom of the bucket and then glue a small piece of clear plexi there with water proof food grade adhesive. That way you can see your exact water level at all times. I hate over watering and having stuff spilling all over because one plant took less water then the first few that I estimated off of


nice idea. the water pressure should help hold the plastic on too. i did the elbows with a clear tube to the outside. it's helpful to have though they get some algae in them after some time as they're exposed to the light and a little difficult to read and to maintain I need to get a pipecleaner now. i think maybe you're using EM1? maybe that keeps the algae down plus you will have less light exposure.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 30, 2020)

raggyb said:


> nice idea. the water pressure should help hold the plastic on too. i did the elbows with a clear tube to the outside. it's helpful to have though they get some algae in them after some time as they're exposed to the light and a little difficult to read and to maintain I need to get a pipecleaner now. i think maybe you're using EM1? maybe that keeps the algae down plus you will have less light exposure.


I have the exact same algae problem on my 18 gallon tote sips that I use for feminized seeds that have that same elbow and tube design. Even using em1 I somehow still get it lol. I wonder if maybe the same elbow design would be easier them the Dremel and glue bit.


----------



## Tim Fox (Dec 30, 2020)

Alright, i bought a couple of clones from the Oregon state legal rec store, and I bought a clone of Trainwreck and Rainbow Sherbert, 30 dollars each, 6 out the door,


----------



## Tim Fox (Dec 30, 2020)

The Sip I like to use is called a "growbox" is simular to the earthbox, but you can fill the res thru the front and you can see the water level in the res, but its negative point is its in two pieces, so you cant grab it by the top rail and carry it around, Sips are stinking heavy to, so I built this wood tray / box with handles on the left and right, so i can load up the SIP in the barn with soil and plants and put the top plastic on, and then carry it to my bedroom and lift it into the grow box, without making a huge stinking mess on my bedroom carpet like last time hahah


----------



## weedstoner420 (Dec 31, 2020)

Tim Fox said:


> The Sip I like to use is called a "growbox" is simular to the earthbox, but you can fill the res thru the front and you can see the water level in the res, but its negative point is its in two pieces, so you cant grab it by the top rail and carry it around, Sips are stinking heavy to, so I built this wood tray / box with handles on the left and right, so i can load up the SIP in the barn with soil and plants and put the top plastic on, and then carry it to my bedroom and lift it into the grow box, without making a huge stinking mess on my bedroom carpet like last time hahahView attachment 4782574View attachment 4782575View attachment 4782576


Good idea with the carrying tray, my growboxes must be a newer version because they snap together and don't come apart. They're easier to move around but it's a pain in the butt to clean out the res afterwards.

Best of luck with the grow!


----------



## Tim Fox (Dec 31, 2020)

weedstoner420 said:


> Good idea with the carrying tray, my growboxes must be a newer version because they snap together and don't come apart. They're easier to move around but it's a pain in the butt to clean out the res afterwards.
> 
> Best of luck with the grow!


it looks like mine was supposed to snap togetehr,, i guess it did on the first grow, but those tabs on the little posts that snap got weaker, i think it happens when the res is full of water , and the top is full of soil, and i grabbed the top to lift it, and the bottom stayed and the top lifted off


----------



## Tim Fox (Dec 31, 2020)

here is the cart i purchased from harbor freight, no more straining with this heavy sip, now i can load it up outside make the mess outside, and then roll it thru the house into the bedroom and lift it by the handles into the grow cab


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 31, 2020)

Tim Fox said:


> here is the cart i purchased from harbor freight, no more straining with this heavy sip, now i can load it up outside make the mess outside, and then roll it thru the house into the bedroom and lift it by the handles into the grow cabView attachment 4782992View attachment 4782993View attachment 4782994


That is a sweet little cart man! Hope you are staying safe and have a happy new year!


----------



## Tim Fox (Dec 31, 2020)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> That is a sweet little cart man! Hope you are staying safe and have a happy new year!


you too buddy,, mixing up soil today and getting those clones into dirt


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 31, 2020)

Tim Fox said:


> you too buddy,, mixing up soil today and getting those clones into dirt


Nice! I'm sure you saw my insane plans above lol. I just flipped my current room; of mostly Bodhi black raspberry, on Christmas I need to insulate my basement a bunch then move them under the big light and start the new project! I have become a Useful and Bodhi seed hoarder it seems so picking my next run will be interesting!


----------



## Humanrob (Jan 1, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> So... I think I might be going over board here ans want some input. I want to flower about 11 plants. I suck shit at cloning and am using non feminized seeds. My idea is to start with 2 packs of bodhi seeds they come in packs of 11. Start them in 4 inch pots for a couple weeks. Then up pot them to 3 gallon SIPs to veg them. Then I would flip them for 1 week to see them. Cull the males, and up pot them to 5 gallon SIPs for flowering.... so my issue is this would seem to be roughly 121 gallons of soil ( if I got half females to up pot to 5 gallon SIPs). Then if I want to do this perpetually I would want at least twice that and re amend the last batch as I'm using the current batch... so I think I would get away with ..26 totes roughly with 13ish cooking at once... am I losing it over here? Hahaha


Haven't been around regularly, just saw this... my first thought was damn, you better have a good dehumidifier! Depends where you live and the season, I guess, but that much wet soil in my climate I'd be dumping a gallon every couple of days from my dehuey. That turned out to be the tipping point for me when I hit my personal plant limit for the space I was growing in (especially using fabric pots) -- the dehumidifier was running 24/7 making so much heat that I had to run AC in December. Electric bills and trying to balance it all was too much. Made me focus more on my outdoor grow! LOL 

Every grow space has its own equilibrium point, you'll find your sweet spot. Looking forward to seeing pictures of this setup


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 1, 2021)

Humanrob said:


> Haven't been around regularly, just saw this... my first thought was damn, you better have a good dehumidifier! Depends where you live and the season, I guess, but that much wet soil in my climate I'd be dumping a gallon every couple of days from my dehuey. That turned out to be the tipping point for me when I hit my personal plant limit for the space I was growing in (especially using fabric pots) -- the dehumidifier was running 24/7 making so much heat that I had to run AC in December. Electric bills and trying to balance it all was too much. Made me focus more on my outdoor grow! LOL
> 
> Every grow space has its own equilibrium point, you'll find your sweet spot. Looking forward to seeing pictures of this setup


Yeah I am in a cold dry basement so I am actually doing the opposite and having to ADD heat and humidity atm lol. In the summer time it stays relatively cool but I might have to try a smaller or an outdoor run then.


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 1, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yeah I am in a cold dry basement so I am actually doing the opposite and having to ADD heat and humidity atm lol. In the summer time it stays relatively cool but I might have to try a smaller or an outdoor run then.


I kinda got lucky in my grow space heat and humidity just falls into place


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 1, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> I kinda got lucky in my grow space heat and humidity just falls into place


I have inkbirds and humidifiers and heaters and de humidifiers and on and on and on lol


----------



## Humanrob (Jan 1, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yeah I am in a cold dry basement so I am actually doing the opposite and having to ADD heat and humidity atm lol. In the summer time it stays relatively cool but I might have to try a smaller or an outdoor run then.


That's what makes sharing information on the internet so challenging, we're all in different situations so we really need to ask a lot of questions and filter out what does and doesn't apply to us.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 1, 2021)

Humanrob said:


> That's what makes sharing information on the internet so challenging, we're all in different situations so we really need to ask a lot of questions and filter out what does and doesn't apply to us.


Especially in something as specific turning your particular environment into the perfect environment to grow your particular strain. Soooo many specific and different factors. A lot of threads on this forum really forget about that fact and just end with folks all fighting about who is right, when they both probably are for their one circumstances. But that's why I love THIS thread, we all can stand back and realize we all have a different situation, and SIPs are so versatile that they work in all kinds of situations!


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 2, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Especially in something as specific turning your particular environment into the perfect environment to grow your particular strain. Soooo many specific and different factors. A lot of threads on this forum really forget about that fact and just end with folks all fighting about who is right, when they both probably are for their one circumstances. But that's why I love THIS thread, we all can stand back and realize we all have a different situation, and SIPs are so versatile that they work in all kinds of situations!


I am too a place where I will only grow in a sip indoors, it just suits me , I find it crazy easy to grow in


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 2, 2021)

up and running


----------



## raggyb (Jan 2, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> up and running


clone babies look all rock-a-bye lullaby in their cozy crib. $30 [email protected] seems like a fair deal.


----------



## GrownAtHighAltitude (Jan 2, 2021)

New SIF room setup. 2 x 315 LEC CMH, 1 x 400 CMH retrofit. 4 Earthboxes w/auto watering valves so far, going to run the rest in smart pots with a Hydrolock setup.

2x OG Tahoe
3x original Alien Kush F2
2x Shoreline OG (original cut)
2x Sour Diesel (Shoreline OG)
2x BOG's Bogglegum
1x BOG's Sour Blutooth


----------



## natureboygrower (Jan 2, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> New SIF room setup. 2 x 315 LEC CMH, 1 x 400 CMH retrofit. 4 Earthboxes w/auto watering valves so far, going to run the rest in smart pots with a Hydrolock setup.
> 
> 2x OG Tahoe
> 3x original Alien Kush F2
> ...


Ive only run 2 per EB but wanted to run more but I'm not sure it's doable. Is this your first run with SIPS ? I'd start training those babies now, they're going to blow up. Looking great


----------



## GrownAtHighAltitude (Jan 2, 2021)

natureboygrower said:


> Ive only run 2 per EB but wanted to run more but I'm not sure it's doable. Is this your first run with SIPS ? I'd start training those babies now, they're going to blow up. Looking great


I did 2 per last time, and I've run 3 per before also. You're right on the training, I just transplanted 2 days ago and am about to bust out the bonsai wire and then maybe a trellis later, not sure yet. I always run wire trellis but they get in the way and I'm thinking I might not even need it. I'm only planning on a short veg with these, then the room is hopefully going to be perpetual flower.

Thanks!


----------



## natureboygrower (Jan 2, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> I did 2 per last time, and I've run 3 per before also. You're right on the training, I just transplanted 2 days ago and am about to bust out the bonsai wire and then maybe a trellis later, not sure yet. I always run wire trellis but they get in the way and I'm thinking I might not even need it. I'm only planning on a short veg with these, then the room is hopefully going to be perpetual flower.
> 
> Thanks!


Nice! It'd be great to see your progress and techniques, Ive got 10 or so different strains in veg waiting to be sexed. Be killer to get 6 of them in (I only run 2 ebs) for some variety. I'll be looking out for your posts. Clean setup!


----------



## ilovereggae (Jan 5, 2021)

what up everyone im here to learn and get some feedback on a SIP idea I have for my next run. i am over hand watering and also want the benefits of self watering containers.

i am also going to be trying a rack grow this time. i grow pretty short plants anyway and have been hanging my fixtures about 44" from the floor of my space. i just got the 84" Covert 4x4 tent and going to setup an 18x48" NSF wire shelf in there. Top shelf will be a bit taller @ 44" and bottom one will be about 40". each shelf would have 2 of these on it, and then i would have 2 more in the tent for a total of 6.

with that in mind I was trying to think of how I could save a few inches by using a shorter wider pot. I saw @Tim Fox's Earthbox and I started thinking about a slight variation. what if i just used 2 bus tubs - a 5" one for my soil, and a 7" one for my res. that would give me @ 2.5 gallon res which seems to be plenty for me to be able to just top it off every 5-7 days.









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Choice 20" x 15" x 7" Black Polypropylene Bus Tub, Bus Box


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they also sell the 5" ones with holes predrilled for a few bucks more.








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is there any concern with using these things? do i need to be looking for food grade / BPA free or something?









Vigor Full Size Black Polycarbonate Food Pan - 4" Deep


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they do also have these other 'food pans' that would give me a little bigger of a res, but I like the bus tubs better bc they have built in handles (and are way cheaper). i figure the handles will make it easier to move them around when full, as well as let me peek into the res (and swap for a new one/clean them easily mid cycle).

either option I could also get the plastic lids, and was thinking to cut a hole in lid for plants and then cut them in half for easy removal. but that way I could have them covered similar to how the earthbox works.

i dont have time to read thru the whole thread right now, but I did search and didn't find any results with this exact setup. has anyone else tried something like this? i've seen where some of you do fabric pots on top of a rubbermaid tote, but again I dont need such a giant res, and am trying to shave a few inches off my current 9" tall pots.

anything else I should consider instead? i do like the earthboxes, but these would be @ 1/2 the price to build.

thanks!


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## Tim Fox (Jan 5, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> what up everyone im here to learn and get some feedback on a SIP idea I have for my next run. i am over hand watering and also want the benefits of self watering containers.
> 
> i am also going to be trying a rack grow this time. i grow pretty short plants anyway and have been hanging my fixtures about 44" from the floor of my space. i just got the 84" Covert 4x4 tent and going to setup an 18x48" NSF wire shelf in there. Top shelf will be a bit taller @ 44" and bottom one will be about 40". each shelf would have 2 of these on it, and then i would have 2 more in the tent for a total of 6.
> 
> ...


sips can for sure be shallow, and wide, the trick your going to have to figure out is how many wicks and how big to make the wicks,, from what i have seen,, make the wicks about half the size you think they should be,, many people have soaked their soil by over wicking , but yes,, you can use those tubs your showing


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## Tim Fox (Jan 5, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> New SIF room setup. 2 x 315 LEC CMH, 1 x 400 CMH retrofit. 4 Earthboxes w/auto watering valves so far, going to run the rest in smart pots with a Hydrolock setup.
> 
> 2x OG Tahoe
> 3x original Alien Kush F2
> ...


ok thats RADICAL, am i seeing grow boxes,, sitting in trays, and the fill tubes have hoses, ,,, please tell me i am not stoned and you made a post about this earlier?,, amazing,, i like how you thought about over flow and possible flooding,, plants look way cool


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## ilovereggae (Jan 5, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> sips can for sure be shallow, and wide, the trick your going to have to figure out is how many wicks and how big to make the wicks,, from what i have seen,, make the wicks about half the size you think they should be,, many people have soaked their soil by over wicking , but yes,, you can use those tubs your showing


im torn. i just saw the earthbox jr which is pretty close size wise to what i want anyway, and 6 of them would be just a few $ more than DIY. but i don't see on there any real wick area besides 2 little divots in the middle. would i need to use a netpot with those anyway? anybody on here using the earthbbox jr version? it says its half the size of the big one, so im guessing it holds about .75cu ft of soil and 2 gallons in the res?

i just finished reading from page 100 on, some cool designs in here for sure.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 5, 2021)

topped my plants tonight, didnt take any pics,, they are still adapting to getting transplanted into the sip, when they take off i am going to whack them in half just about and do some mainlining on them


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## ilovereggae (Jan 5, 2021)

fuck it, stimulus check just hit the account. #YOLO 

just ordered 7 of the Earthbox Jrs! 

next question, do I need EM1 for the res if I am just doing straight water? @Tim Fox i know u said you don't use it on the Growbox, did you use airstone or any EM / Lacto stuff in your Earthbox? or if I understand your theory is that the airgap makes it irrelevant? or does that only apply to the Growbox due to its front port?

thank you to all the posters in this thread have learned a lot.


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## natureboygrower (Jan 6, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> im torn. i just saw the earthbox jr which is pretty close size wise to what i want anyway, and 6 of them would be just a few $ more than DIY. but i don't see on there any real wick area besides 2 little divots in the middle. would i need to use a netpot with those anyway? anybody on here using the earthbbox jr version? it says its half the size of the big one, so im guessing it holds about .75cu ft of soil and 2 gallons in the res?
> 
> i just finished reading from page 100 on, some cool designs in here for sure.


No net pot needed. When you fill your boxes, make sure the soil you put in the divots is really wet. If not, it will not wick up. I got lazy my last run and just left the old wicking soil in the divots. I had done this previously with still wet soil in there, but this last time I had forgotten that I stopped watering the last week. The system did not wick and I had to dig out the back to get the soil wet. Do not fill those boxes with soil until you're ready to plant.

I have the full size EB. 15 gallons of soil, 2.5 gallons of h2o.


I dont believe Tim uses airstones ( I think noise was an issue) I do. I didnt see huge changes, but I like how it keeps everything moving down in the rez.

I make my own soil up every run, everytime I've used Em1 in the rez, my plants complain. I think my soil is rich enough and the em1 just gives them too much at once. Probably would ne a great idea if youre reusing soil. I know a lot of people do.

Good luck


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Jan 6, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> ok thats RADICAL, am i seeing grow boxes,, sitting in trays, and the fill tubes have hoses, ,,, please tell me i am not stoned and you made a post about this earlier?,, amazing,, i like how you thought about over flow and possible flooding,, plants look way cool


Yes. I used regular "winter boot trays" from Amazon. They fit the earthbox footprint just fine. Earthbox has their own patented auto-fill valves that sense air pressure difference in the reservoir of each box. They allow water to fill until the pressure reaches a certain point and then the valves shut off. They are $45 each, so not cheap, but there is nothing else like it on the market. Still under patent protection. It's a novel type of pneumatic valve.

The only trick is each box has to be level or it won't work properly. Also, the valves have to be cleaned out every year or so to remove calcium (I'm on well water).

So far it works well. Still working the kinks out of the water delivery system upstream though. I want it all automated but have to turn the pump on and off each day currently. 

Thanks!


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Jan 6, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> fuck it, stimulus check just hit the account. #YOLO
> 
> just ordered 7 of the Earthbox Jrs!
> 
> ...


You can add EM-1 to your rez, no problem, or to each individual box too. You don't need airstones in each box. I run one airstone in my main rez just to keep the water moving. The SIP's actually introduce plenty of oxygen through the bottom of the planting medium (suspended above the water line).


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## Tim Fox (Jan 6, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> fuck it, stimulus check just hit the account. #YOLO
> 
> just ordered 7 of the Earthbox Jrs!
> 
> ...


i have never added any EM or anyhing to my res other than some cal mag in earlier grows,, but now i put enough in the soil i no longer need to,, but @Humanrob has added things to his res i believe to help , maybe he can chime in , I added air stones on my last grow, and i didnt see any changes, many people have added them,, but to me the one inch air gap provides plenty of oxygen to my root,s,,, i also didnt like the constant drone of the air pump,, so its all sitting in a bag in y garage now hahaha,,, but sure you can ad an airstone, certainly hasnt hurt anyones grow,


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## Tim Fox (Jan 6, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> fuck it, stimulus check just hit the account. #YOLO
> 
> just ordered 7 of the Earthbox Jrs!
> 
> ...


the Earth box also has the one inch air gap,, even though you fill it from the top


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## Humanrob (Jan 6, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> i have never added any EM or anyhing to my res other than some cal mag in earlier grows,, but now i put enough in the soil i no longer need to,, but @Humanrob has added things to his res i believe to help , maybe he can chime in , I added air stones on my last grow, and i didnt see any changes, many people have added them,, but to me the one inch air gap provides plenty of oxygen to my root,s,,, i also didnt like the constant drone of the air pump,, so its all sitting in a bag in y garage now hahaha,,, but sure you can ad an airstone, certainly hasnt hurt anyones grow,


My recollection about adding things like nutes to the res, is that if you do that you will need to ph your res water. If you leave it alone and just use plain water, you'll be fine. 

As far as air stones go, the roots I got LOVED them, and would grow much more in the bubble stream than in the rest of the res. (I would imagine that somewhere in the first 30 pages or so of this thread, there are pictures of that.). 

But that said, they are not necessary. One SIP manufacturer, Octopot, actually recommends against it. Read *HERE. *(lots of interesting info in their FAQ)


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## Imbald (Jan 6, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> fuck it, stimulus check just hit the account. #YOLO
> 
> just ordered 7 of the Earthbox Jrs!
> 
> ...


If you want to run much EM1 in your reservoir, double up on the dolomite lime. It will cause your soil to run on the low side on PH. EM1 has a very low ph value. Lime will help raise it back up closer to 6.5.
Been there, done that.


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## ilovereggae (Jan 6, 2021)

Imbald said:


> If you want to run much EM1 in your reservoir, double up on the dolomite lime. It will cause your soil to run on the low side on PH. EM1 has a very low ph value. Lime will help raise it back up closer to 6.5.
> Been there, done that.


thank you.

I think im going to try to skip the EM1 and airstones at first after the initial feedback. I feel like with the Jr it wont be as much of an issue anyway since I will be topping off more frequently.

im planning on re-running some BAS LOS light mix that i ammended with some DTE Vegan mix and worm castings. A month before I start I will probably add a dose of recharge to the tote the soil is in and let it get going again. Hopefully I wont need to add lime as my ph was pretty perfect last I checked it.

Im actually not in a rush atm, taking time to rebuild and dial my space in first so all of this is just prep.


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## bbggkk1177 (Jan 7, 2021)

Plants looking droopy. I thought it was high humidity but now I’m wondering if it’s just got too much water.


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## natureboygrower (Jan 7, 2021)

bbggkk1177 said:


> Plants looking droopy. I thought it was high humidity but now I’m wondering if it’s just got too much water.


If you just planted, that can happen. Give em a couple days.


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## bbggkk1177 (Jan 7, 2021)

natureboygrower said:


> If you just planted, that can happen. Give em a couple days.


I wish that were the case but I’m in week 6 of veg


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## natureboygrower (Jan 7, 2021)

bbggkk1177 said:


> I wish that were the case but I’m in week 6 of veg


Ah, ok. Did you make the sip/wicks yourself?


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## bbggkk1177 (Jan 7, 2021)

Yes I Did. There isn’t much soil being used as a wick but I’m not sure. Should I dig out a handful of soil and check the moisture? When I stick my hand in it feels airy and moist, really doesn’t feel too wet at all. What rh do you guys like in veg? I was using a vpd chart but the humidity just seemed high so i adjusted a bit to see what happens. I am at 75f and 60rh right now.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 7, 2021)

Some pics of some males I did not pre sex very well I guess lol also got 100 gallons of soil cooking! My goal is to have 200 gallons in rotation between flowering plants vegging plants and soil re amended and cooking for next run. I think I have a good system going looking at these roots!


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## bbggkk1177 (Jan 8, 2021)

I sucked 5 gallons out of the reservoir today (basically full) so i am hoping i find out if it was getting too much water soon. When I felt the soil it felt moist but it absolutely did not feel overwatered. It'll be funny if it was actually underwatered, but I just seriously can't imagine thats the case either.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 8, 2021)

bbggkk1177 said:


> Yes I Did. There isn’t much soil being used as a wick but I’m not sure. Should I dig out a handful of soil and check the moisture? When I stick my hand in it feels airy and moist, really doesn’t feel too wet at all. What rh do you guys like in veg? I was using a vpd chart but the humidity just seemed high so i adjusted a bit to see what happens. I am at 75f and 60rh right now.


I use only pure pete moss in all my wicks and also have a packed mound of Pete moss over the top of the wick before I put soil in, and well you see the results above  I hope all works out for you man!


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Jan 8, 2021)

I use just straight soil in the wicking corners and don't fuss with it too much. I actually grew another crop in all 4 Earthboxes a few months ago, harvested everything, and then promptly let the boxes full of soil and water freeze hard in the garage for a month or two.

I just added water to the top and bottom, dug out the old root balls, ammended the top of the soil a little bit, then popped in my new plants.

Everything fine. 

My soil is a coco base with perlite, compost, etc. Normal stuff.


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## bbggkk1177 (Jan 8, 2021)

Just so I can learn once I actually resolve the problem I went and scooped out some soil to look and feel it. Granted it's from the top half of the container but if this is over watered then I don't know anything.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 8, 2021)

bbggkk1177 said:


> Just so I can learn once I actually resolve the problem I went and scooped out some soil to look and feel it. Granted it's from the top half of the container but if this is over watered then I don't know anything.
> 
> View attachment 4790251View attachment 4790252View attachment 4790254


When you squeeze the soil as hard as you can in your hand does water drip out? What are your temps? Is it cold in your room?


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## bbggkk1177 (Jan 8, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> When you squeeze the soil as hard as you can in your hand does water drip out? What are your temps? Is it cold in your room?


no drip at all. 75 degrees and 55rh currently but it was 65rh when the drooping began


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## weedstoner420 (Jan 8, 2021)

bbggkk1177 said:


> no drip at all. 75 degrees and 55rh currently but it was 65rh when the drooping began


So I switched over to SIPs partly because I suck at hand watering, so take this with a huge grain of salt. But those pics look more underwatered to me, more of a floppy/limp look than the swollen/turgid droop from overwater. I've read that when you can squeeze a handful of soil and one or two drops comes out, that's where you want to be. Seeing if it gets better or worse with the res emptied sounds like a good test though.


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## bbggkk1177 (Jan 8, 2021)

weedstoner420 said:


> So I switched over to SIPs partly because I suck at hand watering, so take this with a huge grain of salt. But those pics look more underwatered to me, more of a floppy/limp look than the swollen/turgid droop from overwater. I've read that when you can squeeze a handful of soil and one or two drops comes out, that's where you want to be. Seeing if it gets better or worse with the res emptied sounds like a good test though.


Man I had read that too and I wanted to water it so bad to find out lol, but I didn’t want to be that guy. also since there is moisture in the soil it means my wick is working. I guess I may find out soon.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 8, 2021)

plants have been in the SIP for one week, they are still adusting to the SIP and the hot soil, my grow box isnt very tall, especially with all the equipment up top in the box, when you account for the exhaust fan, and the hieght of the sip,, i have about 4 feet of usable height, so training is neccasary, or an early flip,, I am doing like my last grow and today I laid them over about half way up, train wreck on the right snapped a little to hard, and broke thru the stem,, so it may heal it may not,, and if it doesnt heal its no biggie because i would just cut it off and proceed with standard mainlining,, sunset sherbet on the left bend over nice, and will be just fine,,, the spots on the leaves show up in the pics, but dont really show up to your eyes, I am keeping a close watch, i have seen powdery mildew several times and it wipes off if you drag your finger over it, this does not, they came from the cloner this way,, i have some green cure if needed,, and I may spray them at lights out in a couple of when they snap out of the training ,, pics


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## Tstat (Jan 11, 2021)

Lots of action around here, so I figured I'd add an update to my 5 sip grow.


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## ilovereggae (Jan 12, 2021)

my earthbox jrs have arrived! gonna be a little while til I get them running but they look pretty nice!


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## Tim Fox (Jan 12, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> my earthbox jrs have arrived! gonna be a little while til I get them running but they look pretty nice!


Look forward to seeing


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## GrassBurner (Jan 15, 2021)

Tstat said:


> Lots of action around here, so I figured I'd add an update to my 5 sip grow.
> View attachment 4793037
> View attachment 4793038
> View attachment 4793039
> ...


Plants look great Are these the Emsco brand from Lowes?


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## Tstat (Jan 15, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Plants look great Are these the Emsco brand from Lowes?


I think so. Patio Pickers was the name, got them at Lowe’s. This run is the best sip run yet!


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## Tim Fox (Jan 15, 2021)

UPDATE


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## bbggkk1177 (Jan 15, 2021)

If em-1 is cool in the res, how do you guys feel about plant extracts that were made with LAB used sparingly in the res?


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Jan 15, 2021)

bbggkk1177 said:


> If em-1 is cool in the res, how do you guys feel about plant extracts that were made with LAB used sparingly in the res?


Just water it into the top. The liquid in the rez can end up sitting still too long.


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## natureboygrower (Jan 15, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> UPDATEView attachment 4797325View attachment 4797326


Looking good Tim. Roots are established on the right I'd guess with lefty not far behind. They're about to take off.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 15, 2021)

natureboygrower said:


> Looking good Tim. Roots are established on the right I'd guess with lefty not far behind. They're about to take off.


Thanks the soil is a little hot for the left plant , yup I still don't see any water roots won't be long


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## Lightgreen2k (Jan 16, 2021)

Sips are great especially after a few cycles.



This is a mixed bed from various breeders,, similar starains (Og and Cookies going on). Most will finish around the same time (67-74)...
Things in there Gelato 33 x Zawtz (Zkittles × Gellati × King Louis ) (cannarado)
White Grape GusherS, (cannarado)
Alien Napalm, (Alien)
Orange Bubble gum Tahoe (Obsoul33t)

As you go along to the new people, less is more. This will be my 16th cycle in this same sip bed.


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## ilovereggae (Jan 16, 2021)

Lightgreen2k said:


> Sips are great especially after a few cycles.
> 
> View attachment 4798335
> View attachment 4798336View attachment 4798337
> ...


are you doing it no til and leaving the soil intact? or los and recycling the soil?


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## Lightgreen2k (Jan 16, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> are you doing it no til and leaving the soil intact? or los and recycling the soil?


A hybrid of both persay. When this cycle is going to be over, I'm going to take out part of the rootball and breakup the rest in the soil. I have earth worms in there, So I don't go too overboard and just add a few dry nutes and a myco inoculant..


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## Tim Fox (Jan 16, 2021)

Lightgreen2k said:


> A hybrid of both persay. When this cycle is going to be over, I'm going to take out part of the rootball and breakup the rest in the soil. I have earth worms in there, So I don't go too overboard and just add a few dry nutes and a myco inoculant..


I should try reusing the soil, my grows a so far apart,


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## Lightgreen2k (Jan 16, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> I should try reusing the soil, my grows a so far apart,


Go for it. We all can get caught up in the sub planters, but trying to simplify seems to make things work well in my and other's situations.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 16, 2021)

My sunset sherbet is finally adapting to my hot soil


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 17, 2021)

My latest five gallon sip run. Most are black raspberry by bodhi, there is one purple wookie and one GLG freebie also. Next run is all feminized useful strains going into some happy frog for sprouting today!


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## Tim Fox (Jan 18, 2021)

Training continues on my plants, Sunset sherbet on the left is really adusting well to the soil mix, I can see my first water roots on the sherbet, Trainwreck has been doing great the whole ride so far, now that water roots have reached the resevoir they should really take off, keeping the canopy level the plants are growing outward not upward , topped off the water resevoir, and I turned up the light power some this morning now that they have more leaves, going very well,


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Jan 18, 2021)

Day 9 flower. 8/16 light schedule. I added SolarCure bulbs a week or so ago also. Stretch is pretty decent with 1" internode spacing pretty much across the board. I've had to adjust the lights up a bit as some leaves have been deforming, probably from excess UV. I'm running the SolarCures for 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour in the afternoon. The Bogglegum in the middle back is the stretchiest of all, followed by the Shoreline OG in front of it, and then Shoreline OG's Sour Diesel in front of that. I just trained them with bonsai wire until everything took off and now everything is unsupported. We'll see if I can get away with it.


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Jan 18, 2021)

Irrigation setup is working killer now. I had to elevate my rez and put the pump underneath. It likes to be gravity fed a lot better than it likes to lift water, even with a 6ft lift rating. Water alarm sensor is raised until I nail down every last little leak down there.  

It's on a timer also, and usually only takes an hour or two to fill every Earthbox tank. I'm going to setup a PVC rail with valves and the HydroLock system to water the other half of the room, using smart pots. This way I can still use the room to sort unsexed plants if I need to. These EBs work great though.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 18, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> Irrigation setup is working killer now. I had to elevate my rez and put the pump underneath. It likes to be gravity fed a lot better than it likes to lift water, even with a 6ft lift rating. Water alarm sensor is raised until I nail down every last little leak down there.
> 
> It's on a timer also, and usually only takes an hour or two to fill every Earthbox tank. I'm going to setup a PVC rail with valves and the HydroLock system to water the other half of the room, using smart pots. This way I can still use the room to sort unsexed plants if I need to. These EBs work great though.
> 
> View attachment 4800394


Very intrigued by your rez set up here! Does it auot fill the SIP rez's when they get low? Or is it a system you use as needed just go in flip a switch until they are full and done? If I incorporated something like this... I might only have to go into my room once every 2 or 3 weeks! Lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 18, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> Day 9 flower. 8/16 light schedule. I added SolarCure bulbs a week or so ago also. Stretch is pretty decent with 1" internode spacing pretty much across the board. I've had to adjust the lights up a bit as some leaves have been deforming, probably from excess UV. I'm running the SolarCures for 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour in the afternoon. The Bogglegum in the middle back is the stretchiest of all, followed by the Shoreline OG in front of it, and then Shoreline OG's Sour Diesel in front of that. I just trained them with bonsai wire until everything took off and now everything is unsupported. We'll see if I can get away with it.
> 
> View attachment 4800392


Those solarcares are uv lights correct? Have you used them before and seen any added difference? Was thinking about getting a uv fixture from rapid led to throw in with my cobs.


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## natureboygrower (Jan 18, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> Day 9 flower. 8/16 light schedule. I added SolarCure bulbs a week or so ago also. Stretch is pretty decent with 1" internode spacing pretty much across the board. I've had to adjust the lights up a bit as some leaves have been deforming, probably from excess UV. I'm running the SolarCures for 1 hour in the morning and 1 hour in the afternoon. The Bogglegum in the middle back is the stretchiest of all, followed by the Shoreline OG in front of it, and then Shoreline OG's Sour Diesel in front of that. I just trained them with bonsai wire until everything took off and now everything is unsupported. We'll see if I can get away with it.
> 
> View attachment 4800392


Holy snikes dude, those look great! You talked me into and I planted 3 plants per EBs yesterday.  are you running 8 hours of light? How about defo? You planning on doing any? I ask cuz its going to get wild in my grow I know it! I gotta run sone shoreline sometime, he's got some nice crosses.


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Jan 18, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Very intrigued by your rez set up here! Does it auot fill the SIP rez's when they get low? Or is it a system you use as needed just go in flip a switch until they are full and done? If I incorporated something like this... I might only have to go into my room once every 2 or 3 weeks! Lol


I'm using the standard Earthbox Auto-Watering system ($45 per box). It uses a pneumatic valve that senses pressure differences in the reservoir of each unit. I set the water timer to come on during the lights-on cycle and each of the valves flow 2 or 3 gallons per hour. The pump is an on-demand unit (like an RV, but with 120V power input) and I have a pressure tank attached. The system is pretty quiet and automated.

I'll put another outlet for the pvc rail and a water timer to turn on the Hydrolock unit sprayers for a couple of minutes maybe a few times a day. Then the non-SIP pots can have irrigation also.


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Jan 18, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Those solarcares are uv lights correct? Have you used them before and seen any added difference? Was thinking about getting a uv fixture from rapid led to throw in with my cobs.


This is my first grow with them, I've been wanting to try them for awhile now and there was a sale a few weeks ago, so I did it. I'm pretty sure the 315watt CMH Phillips lamps are already putting out tons of UV anyway, but I also have a hooded 400watt CMH next to those two and the glass filters the UV. I'm about to switch all that out to two more cheap 315 fixtures though so it's really going to be UV city in this room. Excited to see if it makes a difference since I have a bunch of indoor and outgrows down with most of these strains without already.


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Jan 18, 2021)

natureboygrower said:


> Holy snikes dude, those look great! You talked me into and I planted 3 plants per EBs yesterday.  are you running 8 hours of light? How about defo? You planning on doing any? I ask cuz its going to get wild in my grow I know it! I gotta run sone shoreline sometime, he's got some nice crosses.


12/1 schedule for veg from clone xplant to flip, 4 or 6 weeks, strain dependent. (12/1 is 12 on, 5.5 off, 1 on, 5.5 off)

Flowering now on 8/16 from the flip, correct.

I already defoliated once before I transplanted into the EBs but I could maybe stand to do it again. I live in an arid environment overall though, and usually don't have humidity issues and I might just leave the jungle this time to see how things go. I don't like to be under all those lights for too long. I'm planning my room visits around the UV light schedule now.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 18, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> I'm using the standard Earthbox Auto-Watering system ($45 per box). It uses a pneumatic valve that senses pressure differences in the reservoir of each unit. I set the water timer to come on during the lights-on cycle and each of the valves flow 2 or 3 gallons per hour. The pump is an on-demand unit (like an RV, but with 120V power input) and I have a pressure tank attached. The system is pretty quiet and automated.
> 
> I'll put another outlet for the pvc rail and a water timer to turn on the Hydrolock unit sprayers for a couple of minutes maybe a few times a day. Then the non-SIP pots can have irrigation also.


Ah ok so sounds like something that would be difficult for be to replicate diy. Thanks for the info man!


----------



## GrownAtHighAltitude (Jan 18, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Ah ok so sounds like something that would be difficult for be to replicate diy. Thanks for the info man!


Yeah, that system has been under patent since the early 00's but will be coming out of it soon (within a year or two, I believe) and so we may actually see competition in the SIP space soon. Hopefully it can bring that cost down. The EB system is great but I only justified the cost by the fact that I received all 4 EBs for free. I spent $180 on the watering system for just those boxes.

For contrast, the Hydrolock 12 site extension setup I bought was like $40...


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 18, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> Yeah, that system has been under patent since the early 00's but will be coming out of it soon (within a year or two, I believe) and so we may actually see competition in the SIP space soon. Hopefully it can bring that cost down. The EB system is great but I only justified the cost by the fact that I received all 4 EBs for free. I spent $180 on the watering system for just those boxes.
> 
> For contrast, the Hydrolock 12 site extension setup I bought was like $40...


I built all my own sips, I have maybe fifteen 5 gallon sips and eight 18 gallons. I am thinking about making 22 3.5 gallon sips for my perpetual cycles that I have planned. Trying to run 2 bodhi packs each run so 22 in veg and hoping to get half in flower.


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 20, 2021)

update, water only grow


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 20, 2021)

yea its like that


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 20, 2021)

its like that hahah,,, love the sips


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## Tim Fox (Jan 22, 2021)

The clones have been in the SIP three weeks today, the flip is right around the corner, at which time they will be allowed to rise up, i can see water roots in the res now


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 23, 2021)

All the seeds are up! I gave them each just a shot glass full of plain water phed to 5.8 using only citric acid as my ph down ( my water comes out of my tap at 9.7 clear as crystal at under 100 ppm no filter or anything 300 foot well).

The big ladies got the umber foamy compost tea, (has some of my soil mix, worm bin runoff, fish emulsion, some em1, kelp, mollasses...dried banana peals... I think that's it lol) as a top dress with a sprayer and the rezs on the SIPs i gave each about a gallon of water phed to 6.5 again using only citric acid to stay organic as possible.

The big ladies are on day 28 of flower.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 23, 2021)

Ok so I might have found a resource to have a regular source of food grade 55 gallon plastic drums.... could I make these into crazy sips?
A few questions for you all below.

What are my wicks looking like? 

Is there a height restriction on SIPs? These would be rather narrow containers.

Is there even a market for someone growing on these tall ass things or am I just trying to go too far with up-cycling???

Love yall!


----------



## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Jan 24, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Ok so I might have found a resource to have a regular source of food grade 55 gallon plastic drums.... could I make these into crazy sips?
> A few questions for you all below.
> 
> What are my wicks looking like?
> ...


Water only wicks up so much vertically (someone with knowledge feel free to chime in but 18” sticks in my mind) and those barrels are more than double that. 

Why not just cut them the long way? Now you’re probably thinking how do they stay upright? Get a rack like this ( https://barrelbroker.com/collections/barrel-racks ) or make something out of wood and put some 5” wheels on it, do yourself a favor and do not get small wheels they suck. A reservoir could be fit to the bottom of the rack with the wicks from the barrels going into it. Pretty simple with only a little bit of engineering involved.

Hopefully you are on concrete floors because it will weigh a couple of grams.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 24, 2021)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> Water only wicks up so much vertically (someone with knowledge feel free to chime in but 18” sticks in my mind) and those barrels are more than double that.
> 
> Why not just cut them the long way? Now you’re probably thinking how do they stay upright? Get a rack like this ( https://barrelbroker.com/collections/barrel-racks ) or make something out of wood and put some 5” wheels on it, do yourself a favor and do not get small wheels they suck. A reservoir could be fit to the bottom of the rack with the wicks from the barrels going into it. Pretty simple with only a little bit of engineering involved.
> 
> Hopefully you are on concrete floors because it will weigh a couple of grams.


Hmm that is a good idea! Thank you!


----------



## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Jan 24, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Hmm that is a good idea! Thank you!


You're welcome. The engineering part will be the curved bottom, after you drill numerous holes in the bottom of the drum for the roots to grow into the reservoir, this will make the roots at different heights and not at the optimal 1" of air gap range. My thinking to overcome this would be hang mulitple pieces of something like burlap around the bottom of the barrel into the reservoir to create a friendly microclimate for those roots when they have to hang down 5-6" to hit water.


----------



## raggyb (Jan 24, 2021)

Yeah I was going to say turn it sideways too. a full barrel would weigh something like 400 lbs. Another thing to do if on it's side like a trough is fashion a flat piece of plastic across the bottom across supports cut from pvc pipe that holds the soil up and has the air space beneath and the wick baskets in it. I'm not sure where to get a flat piece of plastic that large but they must be somewhere.

Then again, you could cut in half tall wise and turn the top upside down and have 2 26 gallon containers.


----------



## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Jan 24, 2021)

raggyb said:


> Yeah I was going to say turn it sideways too. a full barrel would weigh something like 400 lbs. Another thing to do if on it's side like a trough is fashion a flat piece of plastic across the bottom across supports cut from pvc pipe that holds the soil up and has the air space beneath and the wick baskets in it. I'm not sure where to get a flat piece of plastic that large but they must be somewhere.
> 
> Then again, you could cut in half tall wise and turn the top upside down and have 2 26 gallon containers.


Cheap plastic? I found it recently, Plastic rain gutter cut into strips! I had to recently find cheap plastic for mounting undercabinet LED lighting and this was by far the cheapest solution I could find. Everything else was a boat load. 1 section of plastic rain gutter is 4"x2"x8' and only ten bucks. You will have to cut it in strips (easily done by scoring and snapping) and reinforce it with something like chicken wire or an extensive pvc structure.


----------



## raggyb (Jan 25, 2021)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> Cheap plastic? I found it recently, Plastic rain gutter cut into strips! I had to recently find cheap plastic for mounting undercabinet LED lighting and this was by far the cheapest solution I could find. Everything else was a boat load. 1 section of plastic rain gutter is 4"x2"x8' and only ten bucks. You will have to cut it in strips (easily done by scoring and snapping) and reinforce it with something like chicken wire or an extensive pvc structure.


speaking ofrepurposing plastic I used a plastic spackling container to fashion a small sip using it as the res. only $5. nothing else fit my needs. had to pop out the little metal scraper piece and then it was exactly what I wanted. mixed results but it was the wrong distance from the light.


----------



## raggyb (Jan 25, 2021)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> Cheap plastic? I found it recently, Plastic rain gutter cut into strips! I had to recently find cheap plastic for mounting undercabinet LED lighting and this was by far the cheapest solution I could find. Everything else was a boat load. 1 section of plastic rain gutter is 4"x2"x8' and only ten bucks. You will have to cut it in strips (easily done by scoring and snapping) and reinforce it with something like chicken wire or an extensive pvc structure.


so what LEDs did you use for under cabinet lighting? I'd like to do myself but not sure on what lights or how to rig up snazzy a p/s and on off switch.


----------



## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Jan 26, 2021)

Something like these ( https://www.amazon.com/LEDJump-Bright-Flexible-2500-2700k-Dimmable/dp/B0091L0GTY/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=led+strips+2700k&qid=1611652520&sr=8-6 ) not sure which one I bought without putting too much effort in. Its fancy when it costs almost nothing if the walls are ripped out. BTW you might want a triac driver with something like this (or wire it for PWM (0-10V) Meanwell drivers like they do in commercial buildings), so you can dim those mothers, also triple up over the sink for the dishwasher duties, you don't want to be called out for dirt on the pots and pans because of shadows. 

More importantly concentrate on those plants, I know mine need more attention.

I'm thinking about making a clone tote with a sub watering tray filled with perlite/or lava rock/ or similar with my extra 2700k strip LEDs in a tote, maybe clear or opaque not sure, it depends if the plants are going into the flower room for warm or suffering in winter veg temps. Anyone do this? I know the kelvins are off.


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 26, 2021)

I really love growing, its my happy place, i can sit with my plants, under the sunshine of the grow lights, nothing finer,, i hope everyones grows are good tonight,, life is good,,


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 27, 2021)

I top dressed the flowering ladies with some of the soil I have cooking mixed with ewc and some bat guano (i know big no no I bought it on a whim long ago and won't again) then covered them with some malted barley mixed with mollases and em1 water to keep the tops more moist. Hopefully this will clear up whatever is going on with the middle 2. I will give them more phed water ... and cheat and add some cal mag, to the rez's tomorrow.


Also nodded my bubble machine to have a bigger hose and tested it for leaks. Cut my bags to frenchie specs and have my trim all freezing, micro plane and brand new pizza boxes ready. I think I am finally ready to get it done!


----------



## GrownAtHighAltitude (Jan 27, 2021)

Day 18 and I'm so happy I decided to go with this setup. All I have to do is add water to the barrel. I've given them tea twice. Loving 12/1 / 8/16 light schedule also, I'm really happy with development (and costs) so far. I used cheap-o CMH lights from Ebay and lit the whole thing for $1000 (4 x 315s).

Going to fill it out the rest of the way as soon as I can insulate the wall a bit better.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 27, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> Day 18 and I'm so happy I decided to go with this setup. All I have to do is add water to the barrel. I've given them tea twice. Loving 12/1 / 8/16 light schedule also, I'm really happy with development (and costs) so far. I used cheap-o CMH lights from Ebay and lit the whole thing for $1000 (4 x 315s).
> 
> Going to fill it out the rest of the way as soon as I can insulate the wall a bit better.
> 
> ...


Nice looking plants... what is this light schedule you are talking about though?


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 27, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I top dressed the flowering ladies with some of the soil I have cooking mixed with ewc and some bat guano (i know big no no I bought it on a whim long ago and won't again) then covered them with some malted barley mixed with mollases and em1 water to keep the tops more moist. Hopefully this will clear up whatever is going on with the middle 2. I will give them more phed water ... and cheat and add some cal mag, to the rez's tomorrow.
> 
> 
> Also nodded my bubble machine to have a bigger hose and tested it for leaks. Cut my bags to frenchie specs and have my trim all freezing, micro plane and brand new pizza boxes ready. I think I am finally ready to get it done!


THats so cool,, always fun to see other cob growers


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 27, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> Day 18 and I'm so happy I decided to go with this setup. All I have to do is add water to the barrel. I've given them tea twice. Loving 12/1 / 8/16 light schedule also, I'm really happy with development (and costs) so far. I used cheap-o CMH lights from Ebay and lit the whole thing for $1000 (4 x 315s).
> 
> Going to fill it out the rest of the way as soon as I can insulate the wall a bit better.
> 
> ...


so amazing, nice and thick, a lush jungle,, its going to be a good finish


----------



## GrownAtHighAltitude (Jan 27, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Nice looking plants... what is this light schedule you are talking about though?


12 on, 5.5 off, 1 on, 5.5 off for veg (known as 12/1)
8/16 for flower


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 27, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> 12 on, 5.5 off, 1 on, 5.5 off for veg (known as 12/1)
> 8/16 for flower


Huh never heard of that one. I'll stick with 24 on in veg and 18 6 in flower  hope it works out for you man!


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Jan 27, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Huh never heard of that one. I'll stick with 24 on in veg and 18 6 in flower  hope it works out for you man!


More about it here: http://www.growlikejoe.com/growing/ -- it really does work and there is scientific research behind it. Cannabis plants don't actually need all the light we give them. My buds finished to the correct size on my last two runs. I've just stepped it up with this room.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 27, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> More about it here: http://www.growlikejoe.com/growing/ -- it really does work and there is scientific research behind it. Cannabis plants don't actually need all the light we give them. My buds finished to the correct size on my last two runs. I've just stepped it up with this room.


I just run 24 hour light mainly because I don't feel like worrying about light proofing another room or getting herms lol not doubting your results or anything man.


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Jan 27, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I just run 24 hour light mainly because I don't feel like worrying about light proofing another room or getting herms lol not doubting your results or anything man.


Only flower rooms need to be light proofed. I started out with 24hr veg years ago. I switched to 18/6 for a number of years and immediately noticed healthier plants. I have since learned that too much light can starve the rhizosphere. I notice now that my plants can veg a lot longer without showing nitrogen deficiency or being rootbound. I do all organic tho.

I have never had herm problems except when there were light leaks in flower. Veg doesn't matter, no matter what light schedule. 

Hope that helps


----------



## GrassBurner (Jan 30, 2021)

Finally grabbed a couple sip's from Lowes. $30 a piece  Home Depot wants $60 for the same thing, fyi. These things are incredible!! The plants were 2 weeks old when I put them in the planters. Soil is coots mix soil, and I added half the recommended amount of Dr Earth "Homegrown" into the soil, and then added a couple tbsp into trenches.

Day 1:


Day 14


Seeing how good they are performing, I wanted to make some more sips. After reading @kratos015 thread about his sips, I decided I would try making some using 5 gallon buckets. I had a couple air stones laying around, so I put them in there hoping to keep things fresh in the bucket. I had some 1.5" pvc pipe laying around, and some stainless screen from another project. I cut my pipe about 4" longer than the buckets height, with a 45* angle on one end. Then I rolled the mesh into a cylinder, and placed it in the tube. Hoping to keep the perlite from filling the tube and making my float guage useless. 



I zip tied the pipe to the bucket, and ran the air line for the stone inside that zip tie to help keep it in place. Then filled the buckets up with perlite. These are the bobbers im using. I cut straws so that they are even with the fill tube at the proper water level, and slid them over the tops of the bobbers. I need to get a couple more straws and make them about 2" longer. 




Thats pretty much it. Filled it up with water, sat the fabric pot on top, and plugged the air lines into the pump. Excited to see how they grow.


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 31, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Finally grabbed a couple sip's from Lowes. $30 a piece  Home Depot wants $60 for the same thing, fyi. These things are incredible!! The plants were 2 weeks old when I put them in the planters. Soil is coots mix soil, and I added half the recommended amount of Dr Earth "Homegrown" into the soil, and then added a couple tbsp into trenches.
> 
> Day 1:
> View attachment 4811134
> ...


Very interesting so is the whole res filled with perlite


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## Tim Fox (Jan 31, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Finally grabbed a couple sip's from Lowes. $30 a piece  Home Depot wants $60 for the same thing, fyi. These things are incredible!! The plants were 2 weeks old when I put them in the planters. Soil is coots mix soil, and I added half the recommended amount of Dr Earth "Homegrown" into the soil, and then added a couple tbsp into trenches.
> 
> Day 1:
> View attachment 4811134
> ...


Makes for a 5 gallon res pretty cool


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## GrassBurner (Jan 31, 2021)

Yeah I fill it up about 2" below the top of the perlite


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## GrassBurner (Jan 31, 2021)

It is all perlite. Got the idea from Kratos' sips he set up. I wasn't aware perlite would wick water, but here we are


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## Tim Fox (Jan 31, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> It is all perlite. Got the idea from Kratos' sips he set up. I wasn't aware perlite would wick water, but here we are


for sure it does,, i tried hempy bucket once and it was all perlite,, did the same thing,, awesome work, they look great


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## GrassBurner (Jan 31, 2021)

Thanks!!! I've been growing less than a year, and watering was my nemesis


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 31, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Thanks!!! I've been growing less than a year, and watering was my nemesis


dude, i totally hear you, i would over water, or under water, ugh,, no more,, the SIP takes care of everything,, not only that but the sip gets it just right, i know for a fact that my plants are drinking allot more water with the sip, that has to equate to faster and fuller growth


----------



## raggyb (Jan 31, 2021)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> Something like these ( https://www.amazon.com/LEDJump-Bright-Flexible-2500-2700k-Dimmable/dp/B0091L0GTY/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=led+strips+2700k&qid=1611652520&sr=8-6 ) not sure which one I bought without putting too much effort in. Its fancy when it costs almost nothing if the walls are ripped out. BTW you might want a triac driver with something like this (or wire it for PWM (0-10V) Meanwell drivers like they do in commercial buildings), so you can dim those mothers, also triple up over the sink for the dishwasher duties, you don't want to be called out for dirt on the pots and pans because of shadows.
> 
> More importantly concentrate on those plants, I know mine need more attention.
> 
> I'm thinking about making a clone tote with a sub watering tray filled with perlite/or lava rock/ or similar with my extra 2700k strip LEDs in a tote, maybe clear or opaque not sure, it depends if the plants are going into the flower room for warm or suffering in winter veg temps. Anyone do this? I know the kelvins are off.


I don't know if it's what you mean but I did a sub watering tray with perlite but not with a tote and not cloning but rather seedlings and clones with roots already. But the tray worked. someone said it's basically a hempy bucket. tray served it's purpose which was to not have to touch anything for weeks so mission accomplished. had clones/seedlings in little mesh pots filled with soil mix, sitting on top of perlite and water level to 1" below the perlite surface. auto gravity watered. when neglected long enough roots would grow from one plant through the perlite and into the other plants soil. i suppose you could put the cutting right in here without roots but I haven't tried it. also when neglected the perlite gets all covered with algae so maybe take a little more care to cover it. lastly fungus gnats do like this setup as well those little fuckers.


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Feb 1, 2021)

raggyb said:


> I don't know if it's what you mean but I did a sub watering tray with perlite but not with a tote and not cloning but rather seedlings and clones with roots already. But the tray worked. someone said it's basically a hempy bucket. tray served it's purpose which was to not have to touch anything for weeks so mission accomplished. had clones/seedlings in little mesh pots filled with soil mix, sitting on top of perlite and water level to 1" below the perlite surface. auto gravity watered. when neglected long enough roots would grow from one plant through the perlite and into the other plants soil. i suppose you could put the cutting right in here without roots but I haven't tried it. also when neglected the perlite gets all covered with algae so maybe take a little more care to cover it. lastly fungus gnats do like this setup as well those little fuckers.


Yup, eactly, with a tote instead of a tray because it is what I have on hand.


----------



## raggyb (Feb 1, 2021)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> Yup, eactly, with a tote instead of a tray because it is what I have on hand.


you could sew or zip tie a wick basket into the bottom of the tote and squeeze that down into the perlite. or just poke small holes in the tote. the roots ability to easily get to the water like feels more official sip.


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## Hash Hound (Feb 1, 2021)

@GrassBurner have you used this for a while, or are you just trying it out? How much water did it take to fill her to the level you want?
That's a pretty high rise for water to wick up from the bottom.


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## Hash Hound (Feb 1, 2021)

I stumbled upon this while researching sips, same principal as what I'm using.









Self Watering Tray for Grow Bags | Gardener's Supply


This self watering tray allows your Grow Bags to wick water from below. Simply set the bags on the tray and fill the reservoir with water.




www.gardeners.com


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## GrassBurner (Feb 1, 2021)

Just trying it out at the moment, but they have definitely been drinking  I'm sure there is a limit to wicking height, probably dependent on the volume of the wick. I still water every other day. Its nice that sips can go for a while without watering, but I'm using them to ensure proper soil moisture. I got tired of getting my ass kicked by improper watering


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 3, 2021)

These ladies are THIRSTY! Filled their rezs last Friday and needed more already yesterday. I guess that's what I get using 5 gallon SIPs. Maybe ill have to expand my flower room and try to start running 12, eighteen gallon tote SIPs or maybe try a run with just my six and see what I can get out of six plants, in those. But I also have not yet reached my target of flowering 12, five gallon SIPs, based on these shots though... I will need to manage those 12 plants much better in veg then I did these ones lol


----------



## Tim Fox (Feb 3, 2021)

weed porn


----------



## GrownAtHighAltitude (Feb 5, 2021)

Day 25, this is pretty much a no-touch grow besides two rounds of tea quickly poured on top.

So far the no-trellis is working and I like that I can just push everything out of the way to pour tea on the surface of each Earth Box without too much trouble. That was always a pain in the ass before to duck under the wire.







Bogglegum



Alien Kush


Tahoe OG



I just take a 6 gallon bucket of water out and dump it in the rez each day and that is it. Easy!

When it warms up I can probably just switch that out to a garden hose.


----------



## Tim Fox (Feb 5, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> Day 25, this is pretty much a no-touch grow besides two rounds of tea quickly poured on top.
> 
> So far the no-trellis is working and I like that I can just push everything out of the way to pour tea on the surface of each Earth Box without too much trouble. That was always a pain in the ass before to duck under the wire.
> 
> ...


awesome grow,, looking really good,, SIPs are so easy,, gotta love it


----------



## Tim Fox (Feb 5, 2021)




----------



## bbggkk1177 (Feb 6, 2021)

any of you guys post your sip grows on ig?


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## raggyb (Feb 7, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> I stumbled upon this while researching sips, same principal as what I'm using.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


cool product. i wish it would say it's uv resistant or whatever the term is.


----------



## Hash Hound (Feb 7, 2021)

Doesn't say and it's manufactured under their brand name so no manufacturer info. I would think they would hold up for a few seasons outdoor and indoor no problem.

I found this on their website today, same principal as the set up of mine I posted a few pages back. $150 is ridiculous.
They show just a strip across the bottom for the wick and I had a piece about 8 inches round. I cut out a big circle in the center and poked some holes in the platform for air today.
And I like the idea of these wick plates that come with cords on amzon for 13+9 shipping.
I've always liked the idea of wicks. 30 years ago right before I had to quit smoking for work I grew a small plant from bag seed in a 1g Rubbermaid wick planter under a 4ft shop light with 2 Sears grow bulbs. I topped it and tied the 2 branches along a piece of bamboo so the buds were right under the florescent. a TOG, T of Green, lol. It was real good, especially for those days. Some guy said it was the best pot he ever smoked
 

Green House Seeds, Bubba Kush 2 weeks, just started hairs. Black Gold amended with Roots Organic Uprising line. water only and drinking like crazy, very heavy, thats why I trimmed the wick. Maybe thats why she droops a bit, not sure, but healthy as can be. I defoled the main fan leaves about 3 weeks ago, hard to tell. One more week she'll get another trim.


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Feb 7, 2021)

I’ve had a similar idea to that product but i feel I can make these out of four common items one might have on hand already.

One saucer, one saucer stand, and two fabric pots. I was thinking about setting it up with one fabric pot for the soil, one for the wick and the reservoir is the bottom saucer, with the saucer stand in the reservoir with the wick.


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## Hash Hound (Feb 7, 2021)

perfect, very easy huh. eliminates the perlite of a swick.


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## raggyb (Feb 8, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> Doesn't say and it's manufactured under their brand name so no manufacturer info. I would think they would hold up for a few seasons outdoor and indoor no problem.
> 
> I found this on their website today, same principal as the set up of mine I posted a few pages back. $150 is ridiculous.
> They show just a strip across the bottom for the wick and I had a piece about 8 inches round. I cut out a big circle in the center and poked some holes in the platform for air today.
> ...


Ha ha Sears had grow lights? I missed that. 

Nice looking plant. I'm torturing mine right now but they'll come back.


----------



## Hash Hound (Feb 8, 2021)

raggyb said:


> Ha ha Sears had grow lights? I missed that.
> 
> Nice looking plant. I'm torturing mine right now but they'll come back.


thanks raggyb
they were 40w plant spectrum florescent. 
My plant has improved a bit today from the trim of the wick and poking a few holes yesterday. 
today I trimmed the wick some more and drilled more and larger 1/4 inch holes.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 10, 2021)

pulled the wires underneath, did some trimming under the canopy,


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 10, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> pulled the wires underneath, did some trimming under the canopy, View attachment 4822008View attachment 4822009View attachment 4822010


I need to get better at this. Canopy envy!


----------



## Tim Fox (Feb 10, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I need to get better at this. Canopy envy!


thank you,, i am making some major changes to my grow box this summer,, and it will change my growing style to some extent


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## raggyb (Feb 10, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> thank you,, i am making some major changes to my grow box this summer,, and it will change my growing style to some extent


what's that transformer doing if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Feb 10, 2021)

looks like a variac to me, it would adjust voltages to control fan speeds or another application.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 10, 2021)

Day 46 of flower on these ladies , pretty sure they will go ten weeks... well that is also my preference on ripeness... not sure how I think I'm going to ever fit 12 of these in here... unless I get on my training and canopy management big time.


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## raggyb (Feb 10, 2021)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> looks like a variac to me, it would adjust voltages to control fan speeds or another application.


okay yeah. googled it and that's the ticket. I bet that could be useful on a heater.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 10, 2021)

raggyb said:


> what's that transformer doing if you don't mind me asking?


that is my Variac speed controller,, my old one started having dead spots and the exhaust fan would stop turning , so i bought a new one, amazon said it was the same one i purchased before, but when it arrived it was larger than the old speed controller, so it wouldnt fit on the shell up above the plants, and i didnt want to risk having it fall and cause major damage to the plants, so it had to go down below, it was sitting on the floor but when i centered the sip in the box to make the plants fit better left to right, there was no room for the Variac, but heck, it fits real nice on top of the soil and under the canopy, and becasue the sip waters from below, its safe there, look strange though i bet hahaha


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## Tim Fox (Feb 10, 2021)

nailed it, the Variac is so bitchen, it makes a lower sine wave , so its still true ac power,, the cheap speed controls do a square wave, essentially turning the fan off and on at a rapid speed, thus slowing the fan down, but its really hard on fans when they get slowed way way down like i do, with the variac is just cruises, and my grow box is dead silent when you stand next to it, 


raggyb said:


> okay yeah. googled it and that's the ticket. I bet that could be useful on a heater.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 10, 2021)

raggyb said:


> okay yeah. googled it and that's the ticket. I bet that could be useful on a heater.


Get an ink bird temp controller.


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## raggyb (Feb 10, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Get an ink bird temp controller.


I had one and put it on a space heater and the inkbird died. It's rated for 1000W and the heater is below that.  This variac is maybe too pricey for me right now but if i had one I'd be using it on a heater. You could lower the continuous temp output and power usage without the heater turning on and off.


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## raggyb (Feb 10, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> nailed it, the Variac is so bitchen, it makes a lower sine wave , so its still true ac power,, the cheap speed controls do a square wave, essentially turning the fan off and on at a rapid speed, thus slowing the fan down, but its really hard on fans when they get slowed way way down like i do, with the variac is just cruises, and my grow box is dead silent when you stand next to it,


another lesson learned. whatever the piece o shit speed control i got that amazon recommended was doing it fucked up my fan.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 10, 2021)

raggyb said:


> I had one and put it on a space heater and the inkbird died. It's rated for 1000W and the heater is below that.  This variac is maybe too pricey for me right now but if i had one I'd be using it on a heater. You could lower the continuous temp output and power usage without the heater turning on and off.


Huh I have had space heaters on the same ink birds for ... 3 years? And no issues and I grow in a cold ass basement in the north... I don't even know how a heating element would handle a variac... it might not even turn on at all without a certain amount pushed to it... very much like leds in a string ... I would really look into temp controllers over just something varying the electrical input like this.


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## raggyb (Feb 10, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Huh I have had space heaters on the same ink birds for ... 3 years? And no issues and I grow in a cold ass basement in the north... I don't even know how a heating element would handle a variac... it might not even turn on at all without a certain amount pushed to it... very much like leds in a string ... I would really look into temp controllers over just something varying the electrical input like this.


i don't know it worked for an hour and then I turned the heater off and the inkbird went dead. I don't know if there is a fuse accesible inside. You're right I don't know for sure if the variac will work with a heater as I only googled a few mins but it looks likely it would. it should just make the heater push a lower temp because lower AC voltage. And leds i think are different because they're dc and they dim with pulse width modulation. The thing is I like the size and function of my large heater better than the small one I got but the large heater gets too hot so a switch will be turning it off and on alot. And if you switch the large heater power source off and back on then you have to be there to manually push the on button on the heater. But again I might not want to fork out for a variac fwiw so i'm still thinking what else will get me from a to b in the least steps and expense!


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## raggyb (Feb 10, 2021)

raggyb said:


> the inkbird went dead. I don't know if there is a fuse accessible inside.


having no luck googling this info


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 10, 2021)

raggyb said:


> i don't know it worked for an hour and then I turned the heater off and the inkbird went dead. I don't know if there is a fuse accesible inside. You're right I don't know for sure if the variac will work with a heater as I only googled a few mins but it looks likely it would. it should just make the heater push a lower temp because lower AC voltage. And leds i think are different because they're dc and they dim with pulse width modulation. The thing is I like the size and function of my large heater better than the small one I got but the large heater gets too hot so a switch will be turning it off and on alot. And if you switch the large heater power source off and back on then you have to be there to manually push the on button on the heater. But again I might not want to fork out for a variac fwiw so i'm still thinking what else will get me from a to b in the least steps and expense!


Best of luck man!


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## Tim Fox (Feb 11, 2021)

i would think a cheap thermostat from home depot would do a better job of regulatiing heat from a heater , by turning on and off a heater to maintain a certain temp,, i agree the variac would not be a good idea on a heater,, I own an InkBird i used it for other things than growing, last summer i hooked my inkbird up to a water heater to keep my swimming pool warm hahaha, the heater was too small and the heater simply stayed on all day,,


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 11, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> i would think a cheap thermostat from home depot would do a better job of regulatiing heat from a heater , by turning on and off a heater to maintain a certain temp,, i agree the variac would not be a good idea on a heater,, I own an InkBird i used it for other things than growing, last summer i hooked my inkbird up to a water heater to keep my swimming pool warm hahaha, the heater was too small and the heater simply stayed on all day,,


I have often wondered if that temp sensor could be submerged lol good to know!


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## Tim Fox (Feb 11, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I have often wondered if that temp sensor could be submerged lol good to know!


lol yes it can be submerged,, i have always used my ink bird in a wet invironment, we used it to make beer and then to make home made yohgurt, and and then ths swimming pool


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## Tim Fox (Feb 11, 2021)

they would work well for keeping a resevoir at a correct temp,, either by heating or cooling it, i used to use a fish tank heater on my res when i did floor drain and the ink bird turned the fish heater on and off


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 11, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> lol yes it can be submerged,, i have always used my ink bird in a wet invironment, we used it to make beer and then to make home made yohgurt, and and then ths swimming pool


Ha exactly what I was thinking! The beer brewing I mean. Some brews need that constant like 72 degrees or whatever. Need to get them one of those heated growler coat things and use some star san on the probe! Might use it for my kombucha too... time to buy some more ink birds! Thanks man!


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## Tim Fox (Feb 11, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Ha exactly what I was thinking! The beer brewing I mean. Some brews need that constant like 72 degrees or whatever. Need to get them one of those heated growler coat things and use some star san on the probe! Might use it for my kombucha too... time to buy some more ink birds! Thanks man!


for sure it would work awesome with some kombucha,,, it kept my 24 hour yogurt at 105 degrees on the nose


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 11, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> for sure it would work awesome with some kombucha,,, it kept my 24 hour yogurt at 105 degrees on the nose


I use my yogotherm for that, I boil for 8 minutes constant stirring then cool to 110 then put it in the yogotherm for 24 hours and it holds it steady there. Its basically just a big Styrofoam shield around a sealed container.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 11, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I use my yogotherm for that, I boil for 8 minutes constant stirring then cool to 110 then put it in the yogotherm for 24 hours and it holds it steady there. Its basically just a big Styrofoam shield around a sealed container.


that sounds cool,, i used an ice chest with a heating pad and 100 watt bulb hooked to the inkbird, submereged the probe into one of the yogurt jars and the inkbird would turn the heating pad and light on and off as needed and the ice chest held the heat in, i was impressed i could make like 6 mason jars of yogurt at a time with it,, we did this back when my wife was sick, it really helped to heal her leaky gut


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 11, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> that sounds cool,, i used an ice chest with a heating pad and 100 watt bulb hooked to the inkbird, submereged the probe into one of the yogurt jars and the inkbird would turn the heating pad and light on and off as needed and the ice chest held the heat in, i was impressed i could make like 6 mason jars of yogurt at a time with it,, we did this back when my wife was sick, it really helped to heal her leaky gut


Thats a sweet set up for making mass batches for sure! Probably uses something like that for kombucha but minus the light because it is supposed to be kept dark.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 11, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Thats a sweet set up for making mass batches for sure! Probably uses something like that for kombucha but minus the light because it is supposed to be kept dark.


the heating pad worked great, look forward to seeing your set up later


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## raggyb (Feb 11, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> i would think a cheap thermostat from home depot would do a better job of regulatiing heat from a heater , by turning on and off a heater to maintain a certain temp,,


that doesnt work if your heater requires you to push the on button after it is plugged in. 

Again, if you can use a variac to slow a fan down I don't see why you can't use it to lower the output of a heater. the heater would use less power when on and could be kept at the temp you want rather than have to go temp on and off / up and down. I see people online saying they are using one with electric frying pans, giant fans they have that blow too hard,... etc. in most cases it sounded like they have variacs lying around (lol). so if anyone knows exactly when and why it can't be used then i'll be all ears.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 11, 2021)

raggyb said:


> that doesnt work if your heater requires you to push the on button after it is plugged in.
> 
> Again, if you can use a variac to slow a fan down I don't see why you can't use it to lower the output of a heater. the heater would use less power when on and could be kept at the temp you want rather than have to go temp on and off / up and down. I see people online saying they are using one with electric frying pans, giant fans they have that blow too hard,... etc. in most cases it sounded like they have variacs lying around (lol). so if anyone knows exactly when and why it can't be used then i'll be all ears.


I dont think mechanisms inside of these two things work the same. The motor on a fan runs faster when more current is applied. I believe a heater works in a way that it is all on or all the way off. It is turned on and off based on the temp setting. So if its below that temp it turns on, and is all the way on when it reaches the desired temp the power is cut to the heating unit. Variable speed motor on a fan. On or off switch on a heater.... but I'm not a pro electrician mind you


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## raggyb (Feb 11, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I dont think mechanisms inside of these two things work the same. The motor on a fan runs faster when more current is applied. I believe a heater works in a way that it is all on or all the way off. It is turned on and off based on the temp setting. So if its below that temp it turns on, and is all the way on when it reaches the desired temp the power is cut to the heating unit. Variable speed motor on a fan. On or off switch on a heater.... but I'm not a pro electrician mind you


I'll try to check on that but it seems to me the heater has a separate internal thermometer that switches it on and off. The heating element is much hotter than what it's temp reading says. it's probably like twice as hot. I don't know all electric either but know there could be significant differences that matter. AC fans often have windings and are so called inductive loads which turns out to be important regarding how much you can fuck with it electronically speaking. I believe my heaters would be inductive loads also.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 11, 2021)

raggyb said:


> I'll try to check on that but it seems to me the heater has a separate internal thermometer that switches it on and off. The heating element is much hotter than what it's temp reading says. it's probably like twice as hot. I don't know all electric either but know there could be significant differences that matter. AC fans often have windings and are so called inductive loads which turns out to be important regarding how much you can fuck with it electronically speaking. I believe my heaters would be inductive loads also.


I have a heater i know never works on an inkbird like you said because it has a power on switch that needs to be pushed also once the power is on. The older ones (while probably not as safe) are just on off so for me those work. Let us know your results and models you use and such. I'm in a cold basement in the winter so could be very useful info!


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## raggyb (Feb 11, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I have a heater i know never works on an inkbird like you said because it has a power on switch that needs to be pushed also once the power is on. The older ones (while probably not as safe) are just on off so for me those work. Let us know your results and models you use and such. I'm in a cold basement in the winter so could be very useful info!


me too. I don't want a tent and it's making temp and humid control a bitch. Actually I'm better off turning another light on for more heat when the lights are on!


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## raggyb (Feb 11, 2021)

raggyb said:


> that doesnt work if your heater requires you to push the on button after it is plugged in.
> 
> Again, if you can use a variac to slow a fan down I don't see why you can't use it to lower the output of a heater. the heater would use less power when on and could be kept at the temp you want rather than have to go temp on and off / up and down. I see people online saying they are using one with electric frying pans, giant fans they have that blow too hard,... etc. in most cases it sounded like they have variacs lying around (lol). so if anyone knows exactly when and why it can't be used then i'll be all ears.


now that i think more if the heater has a digital screen that circuitry likely gets fucked by putting a variac on there.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 11, 2021)

raggyb said:


> that doesnt work if your heater requires you to push the on button after it is plugged in.
> 
> Again, if you can use a variac to slow a fan down I don't see why you can't use it to lower the output of a heater. the heater would use less power when on and could be kept at the temp you want rather than have to go temp on and off / up and down. I see people online saying they are using one with electric frying pans, giant fans they have that blow too hard,... etc. in most cases it sounded like they have variacs lying around (lol). so if anyone knows exactly when and why it can't be used then i'll be all ears.


awesome discussion on the heater , if you do decide to try it on a heater, the variacs are rated in watts,, mine is 300 watts, which is double what my fan pulls on high, and dialed down its pulling 30 watts, so if a heater is rated at 1500 watts, then a variac of that size would be required,, i am not sure what a large variac would cost, but my 300 watt was 68 dollars on amazon


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## Xsan (Feb 12, 2021)

Wow, this thread was quite the read...all 139 pages of it lol. We actually signed the agreement to list our house tonight so I am in the planning stages of my new grow setup. Legally allowed 5 over 5 inches. Plan is to perpetual with either two 4x8 or 5x9 tents or have also considered running 5 individual 5x5 or 4x4 tents. Planning on 1000 watts of lm301 strips per flowering plant. Theoretically veg 3 plants 15 weeks and flower 2 for 10, rotating a plant every 5. Give or take depending on strain of course. Goal is to come close to the typical noob goal of 1lb per plant. Thoughts are to go probiotic with the em1 in the res and kashi on top. I like the vermiculite floor with 4inch drain pipe style sip from a easy assembly standpoint.

Leaves me with 2 questions...

What size container am I going to need? Was guessing around 40 gallons?

I will be using ro water so I am assuming I'll need to add calmag

Bas shopping cart currently has a yard of 3.0 soil, 2cf of bus compost, 5 gallon of em1, and 2 bags of grokashi. What else do I need to add? 

Their craft blend nutrient pack or will the 3.0 get me through with em1 and kashi?

Thank you all for your contributions to this thread! Your trials and errors allow me to have silly daydreams like this and bring joy to my world


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## Tim Fox (Feb 12, 2021)

two weeks flower today


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 12, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> two weeks flower todayView attachment 4824208


On their way!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 12, 2021)

So I have been thinking about trying mainlining with these twelve little ones I have going, they are just on their fifth node and I know that is the time to start. Looking to try to get just 8 long kolas on each 5 gallon bucket supported by tomatoes cages. I THINK then I might be able to fit 10 - 12 in my room. 

Anyone done this? Is it a good idea? Tips? Any input is appreciated!


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## Tim Fox (Feb 12, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> So I have been thinking about trying mainlining with these twelve little ones I have going, they are just on their fifth node and I know that is the time to start. Looking to try to get just 8 long kolas on each 5 gallon bucket supported by tomatoes cages. I THINK then I might be able to fit 10 - 12 in my room.
> 
> Anyone done this? Is it a good idea? Tips? Any input is appreciated!


Yup I mainlined once it's fun and yes chop them and bend them over , it's a very satisfying way to grow


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## Xsan (Feb 12, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> Yup I mainlined once it's fun and yes chop them and bend them over , it's a very satisfying way to grow



I also did one mainline, I like the front loaded effort. Its just like the sips, if done right flower is very low maintenance.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 12, 2021)

Xsan said:


> I also did one mainline, I like the front loaded effort. Its just like the sips, if done right flower is very low maintenance.


True that, this grow has been the most low key ever , almost boring


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 12, 2021)

I'm just paranoid about and hate cutting up my plants especially as much as it takes for mainlining, but I feel like I am at a place where I have a handle on my vegging. Think I am going to transplant and top to the 3rd node this weekend.


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## Xsan (Feb 12, 2021)

if you have topped before you can mainline bud, no need to be paranoid. If I can do it anyone can. follow nugbuckets guide and youll be good. Just remember to not top right at the node so you dont get a split but even if you do, it will bounce back. if your veg is on point, these plants will take a TON of abuse. it amazes me sometimes


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 12, 2021)

Xsan said:


> if you have topped before you can mainline bud, no need to be paranoid. If I can do it anyone can. follow nugbuckets guide and youll be good. Just remember to not top right at the node so you dont get a split but even if you do, it will bounce back. if your veg is on point, these plants will take a TON of abuse. it amazes me sometimes


Cool I have topped plants multiple times. Its just the extreme defoliation that always gets me lol. But I think I have my soil and environment dialed in enough now to try this out.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 12, 2021)

Xsan said:


> if you have topped before you can mainline bud, no need to be paranoid. If I can do it anyone can. follow nugbuckets guide and youll be good. Just remember to not top right at the node so you dont get a split but even if you do, it will bounce back. if your veg is on point, these plants will take a TON of abuse. it amazes me sometimes


Thanks for the reassurance man!


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## Xsan (Feb 12, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Cool I have topped plants multiple times. Its just the extreme defoliation that always gets me lol. But I think I have my soil and environment dialed in enough now to try this out.


nugbuckets did his topping and defoliation. being a first timer I was a bit nervous as well so I typically topped then defoliated a few day later to make sure they had some recovery time between stress sessions. Seemed to work well for me


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## Tim Fox (Feb 12, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I'm just paranoid about and hate cutting up my plants especially as much as it takes for mainlining, but I feel like I am at a place where I have a handle on my vegging. Think I am going to transplant and top to the 3rd node this weekend.


Oh yeah get into tying her down, just have to wait between each hacking, and get the manifold all set up, you will build more leaves later


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 12, 2021)

Xsan said:


> nugbuckets did his topping and defoliation. being a first timer I was a bit nervous as well so I typically topped then defoliated a few day later to make sure they had some recovery time between stress sessions. Seemed to work well for me


Yeah I think I will be doing the same as you did not nugs at first


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## Xsan (Feb 12, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> Oh yeah get into tying her down, just have to wait between each hacking, and get the manifold all set up, you will build more leaves later



Oh yes, the bondage humor. If nothing else some of the tutorial threads are fun for that alone lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 12, 2021)

Xsan said:


> Oh yes, the bondage humor. If nothing else some of the tutorial threads are fun for that alone lol


I could post some pics.. but thats another thread... or site altogether lmao


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 12, 2021)

I added my grow journal, feel free to follow along there to see if I crash and burn! Lol


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## Tim Fox (Feb 12, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I could post some pics.. but thats another thread... or site altogether lmao


You have a grow thread,


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## Tim Fox (Feb 12, 2021)

Xsan said:


> Oh yes, the bondage humor. If nothing else some of the tutorial threads are fun for that alone lol


I tried stand up once , it didn't go well hahaha I wonder if my mainline pics are in this thread , I grew them in the sip


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## Xsan (Feb 12, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> I tried stand up once , it didn't go well hahaha I wonder if my mainline pics are in this thread , I grew them in the sip



you posted a few of them, i wanna say somewhere past page 100 but could be wrong.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 13, 2021)

Xsan said:


> you posted a few of them, i wanna say somewhere past page 100 but could be wrong.


thank you,,


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## Tim Fox (Feb 13, 2021)

power is out at my house,, having to run the generator,, huge ice storm,, my trees outside are breaking, ice damming up on the roof,,, it was 54 in my grow box this morning,, power isnt supposed to be back on until monday,, ugh


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 13, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> power is out at my house,, having to run the generator,, huge ice storm,, my trees outside are breaking, ice damming up on the roof,,, it was 54 in my grow box this morning,, power isnt supposed to be back on until monday,, ugh


Oh no man! I hope things settle down there soon! I thought it being -26 with a feel of -35 here this morning was bad but dang ill take it I guess! Keeping you in my thoughts today man!


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## Xsan (Feb 13, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> power is out at my house,, having to run the generator,, huge ice storm,, my trees outside are breaking, ice damming up on the roof,,, it was 54 in my grow box this morning,, power isnt supposed to be back on until monday,, ugh



Ouch, that sucks man! Our winter hasnt been too terrible yet here. Good luck and stay safe!


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## Hash Hound (Feb 13, 2021)

I'm getting a bit tired of scrounging for this and that for projects of mine so $13+9 shipping for 2 wasn't going to break the bank. 
it comes with 2ft of 1/2 inch wick and says to cut into 4 8 inch pieces. The plate risers are just under 3 1/4 inch so that leaves 4 3/4 inches up into the soil or laying on the plate under a bag. You could also just fill the risers with soil, they are pretty versatile, 
I haven't tried fitting one in a 5g bucket yet. I want to use a hole saw and drill a bunch of holes in a bucket so I can put the riser in the bottom and a bag on top. Its a little wobbly with just the riser in the dish pan. I'll probably add a support of two for now. 
In a 5g bucket it will have a 1g reservoir, but in the dish pan I put just under 2g in to fill.


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## raggyb (Feb 14, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> I'm getting a bit tired of scrounging for this and that for projects of mine so $13+9 shipping for 2 wasn't going to break the bank.
> it comes with 2ft of 1/2 inch wick and says to cut into 4 8 inch pieces. The plate risers are just under 3 1/4 inch so that leaves 4 3/4 inches up into the soil or laying on the plate under a bag. You could also just fill the risers with soil, they are pretty versatile,
> I haven't tried fitting one in a 5g bucket yet. I want to use a hole saw and drill a bunch of holes in a bucket so I can put the riser in the bottom and a bag on top. Its a little wobbly with just the riser in the dish pan. I'll probably add a support of two for now.
> In a 5g bucket it will have a 1g reservoir, but in the dish pan I put just under 2g in to fill.
> ...


it's neat but looks to me like the wicks dont extend down into the water so that you can have an air gap below the platform and the water level can go down and it still wicks?


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## raggyb (Feb 14, 2021)

Xsan said:


> if you have topped before you can mainline bud, no need to be paranoid. If I can do it anyone can. follow nugbuckets guide and youll be good. Just remember to not top right at the node so you dont get a split but even if you do, it will bounce back. if your veg is on point, these plants will take a TON of abuse. it amazes me sometimes


do you guys think it's ok to do the mainline training part under a 50W (actual) LED? or does it not work well without a little more umpf in the light.


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## Hash Hound (Feb 14, 2021)

raggyb said:


> it's neat but looks to me like the wicks dont extend down into the water so that you can have an air gap below the platform and the water level can go down and it still wicks?


you can see in the second pic on the right side riser the wick is at the bottom and there are little cuts outs for the wick to be exposed to the water.
I checked today and she's drinking ok. I may drill more holes in the platform, I want to test it out as is for a bit.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 14, 2021)

My plants would be dead if it wasn't for this propane generator and growing in the SIP,


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## Xsan (Feb 14, 2021)

raggyb said:


> do you guys think it's ok to do the mainline training part under a 50W (actual) LED? or does it not work well without a little more umpf in the light.


I'll let @Tim Fox give his thoughts on that but I would think 50 watts of true high end led could cover 2 sq feet so you could probably do one small plant to 8 colas or 3 toppings


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## Xsan (Feb 14, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> My plants would be dead if it wasn't for this propane generator and growing in the SIP, View attachment 4826342


At least you got backup! Are they still saying tomorrow for you to be back on?


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## Tim Fox (Feb 14, 2021)

Xsan said:


> At least you got backup! Are they still saying tomorrow for you to be back on?


Monday is still the estimate, at least it's above freezing now and 35 degrees everything is dripping ice is falling out of the trees


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## Tim Fox (Feb 14, 2021)

Xsan said:


> I'll let @Tim Fox give his thoughts on that but I would think 50 watts of true high end led could cover 2 sq feet so you could probably do one small plant to 8 colas or 3 toppings


Yup I have seen some really nice grows under a single 50 watt cob


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## raggyb (Feb 14, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> Yup I have seen some really nice grows under a single 50 watt cob


It's not cobs or anything. A simple Root Farm brand, Some Ho depots carry them. I would be moving them under HIDs once ready but mainlining several under the root farm if possible.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 15, 2021)

raggyb said:


> It's not cobs or anything. A simple Root Farm brand, Some Ho depots carry them. I would be moving them under HIDs once ready but mainlining several under the root farm if possible.


Give it a go it doesn't take much light to veg


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## Chunky Stool (Feb 15, 2021)

I've got a few plants in "plant warrior" pots. Can I just stick em in a tub with some perlite?
Does that count as a SIP?

Probably have to cover the soil with fabric or perlite to keep bugs away.

What do you think?









Plant Warrior Pot direct from Growers House


Plant Warrior growing containers provide added oxygen to the soil environment. Patent pending design allows oxygen to be drawn through the bottom of the container promoting healthy, strong roots.<br /> <br /> <ul> <li>New patent pending cone techn




growershouse.com


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## raggyb (Feb 15, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> Give it a go it doesn't take much light to veg


dawned on me that super-cropping would be less work and bent them all proper.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 15, 2021)

raggyb said:


> dawned on me that super-cropping would be less work and bent them all proper.


I stopped mainlining and went to super cropping also , if you have seen any of my grows lately I just lay that plant over about half way down , it's fun to bend it , when you do it right it feels like when you're drying a plant and your deciding if it's time to go into jars , when the plants bend with a kink but don't snap, to me it feels good like cracking a knuckle


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 15, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> I stopped mainlining and went to super cropping also , if you have seen any of my grows lately I just lay that plant over about half way down , it's fun to bend it , when you do it right it feels like when you're drying a plant and your deciding if it's time to go into jars , when the plants bend with a kink but don't snap, to me it feels good like cracking a knuckle


I think trying to make these 12 plants fit in this space (which i admit might be a bad idea lol) I don't know that just bending them over would work. This will be my first time ever trying this.. and maybe the last I guess we will see lol. Also I think this helps have a lot less larf which I strive for also!


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## Tim Fox (Feb 15, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I think trying to make these 12 plants fit in this space (which i admit might be a bad idea lol) I don't know that just bending them over would work. This will be my first time ever trying this.. and maybe the last I guess we will see lol. Also I think this helps have a lot less larf which I strive for also!


What's really fun is getting to see what path a growers chooses , it's so fun everytime we grow how different paths are chosen, you always give me a smile


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 15, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> What's really fun is getting to see what path a growers chooses , it's so fun everytime we grow how different paths are chosen, you always give me a smile


Glad that I can make you smile [email protected]


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## Tim Fox (Feb 15, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Glad that I can make you smile [email protected]


It's been years right , I hope for many more


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 15, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> It's been years right , I hope for many more


That it has! And yes hope many more!


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## Tim Fox (Feb 15, 2021)

I am finishing day 3 without power, 2 1/2 weeks into flower , running the generator everyday for more than 12 hours, I managed to get 3 bbq size propane tanks filled today and around 8 gallons of gas, my generator runs on both, there is no estimate on when we will get power back , my sip is really taking care of my plants, and the cobs pulling 250 watts leaves plenty of juice to cook food and watch tv and powder the wifi, hope everyone is smoking a bowl tonight,


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## Xsan (Feb 16, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> I am finishing day 3 without power, 2 1/2 weeks into flower , running the generator everyday for more than 12 hours, I managed to get 3 bbq size propane tanks filled today and around 8 gallons of gas, my generator runs on both, there is no estimate on when we will get power back , my sip is really taking care of my plants, and the cobs pulling 250 watts leaves plenty of juice to cook food and watch tv and powder the wifi, hope everyone is smoking a bowl tonight,


Generator paid for itself this round lol. Glad your holding up alright man


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## raggyb (Feb 16, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> I stopped mainlining and went to super cropping also , if you have seen any of my grows lately I just lay that plant over about half way down , it's fun to bend it , when you do it right it feels like when you're drying a plant and your deciding if it's time to go into jars , when the plants bend with a kink but don't snap, to me it feels good like cracking a knuckle


ha, yes I find the bend very satisfying now that I've got the hang of it. didn't break any branches at all.


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## raggyb (Feb 16, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I think trying to make these 12 plants fit in this space (which i admit might be a bad idea lol) I don't know that just bending them over would work. This will be my first time ever trying this.. and maybe the last I guess we will see lol. Also I think this helps have a lot less larf which I strive for also!


i agree the mainline will be more rounded out than my bends. mine were topped once and bent out the same direction so could grow out like an espalier.


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## raggyb (Feb 16, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> I am finishing day 3 without power, 2 1/2 weeks into flower , running the generator everyday for more than 12 hours, I managed to get 3 bbq size propane tanks filled today and around 8 gallons of gas, my generator runs on both, there is no estimate on when we will get power back , my sip is really taking care of my plants, and the cobs pulling 250 watts leaves plenty of juice to cook food and watch tv and powder the wifi, hope everyone is smoking a bowl tonight,


you too, you deserve it going through all that!


----------



## GrownAtHighAltitude (Feb 18, 2021)

Day 44 -- SIPs are just awesome. I'm just topping up with water every few days now.

8/16 light schedule working perfectly also.





Sour D (Shoreline OG)



Bonus shot Peyote Cookies (Barney's Farm) but not in a SIP... right next to it though


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## myke (Feb 21, 2021)

Hey all. Gonna build one of these sip things. A question about the net pot as the wick. Can it be used by itself or does it need a screen or filter for lack of better term. Also it just gets packed with plain peat or the same dirt as the plant will be in. 
Also is the idea to keep the dirt out of the res?? So net pot and water tube need to be sealed?? 
thanks.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 21, 2021)

myke said:


> Hey all. Gonna build one of these sip things. A question about the net pot as the wick. Can it be used by itself or does it need a screen or filter for lack of better term. Also it just gets packed with plain peat or the same dirt as the plant will be in.
> Also is the idea to keep the dirt out of the res?? So net pot and water tube need to be sealed??
> thanks.


I just use the net pot and pack it very right with pete moss only. I know a lot of folks just use soil also.


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## myke (Feb 21, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I just use the net pot and pack it very right with pete moss only. I know a lot of folks just use soil also.


So no need for a screen.My net pots have small holes.cheers.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 21, 2021)

myke said:


> So no need for a screen.My net pots have small holes.cheers.


Yeah I have never used any kind of screen.


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## myke (Feb 21, 2021)

More questions.27 gallon tote,use 2 5" net pots?Plan on 2 plants,so one under ea plant.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 21, 2021)

myke said:


> More questions.27 gallon tote,use 2 5" net pots?Plan on 2 plants,so one under ea plant.


Personally I found the 27 gallon to be incredibly unwieldy. It gets so insanely heavy, I hope you don't plan on moving the thing for its entire life cycle lol.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 21, 2021)

I know a lot of folks have been asking about diy sips. So I went back to the first page and grabbed the "inntainer" build pdf that helped me a ton! I hope this helps all of you!


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## myke (Feb 21, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Personally I found the 27 gallon to be incredibly unwieldy. It gets so insanely heavy, I hope you don't plan on moving the thing for its entire life cycle lol.


2 big girls that have out grown a 5g is whats going in.I dont plan on moving it till there done.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 22, 2021)

myke said:


> Hey all. Gonna build one of these sip things. A question about the net pot as the wick. Can it be used by itself or does it need a screen or filter for lack of better term. Also it just gets packed with plain peat or the same dirt as the plant will be in.
> Also is the idea to keep the dirt out of the res?? So net pot and water tube need to be sealed??
> thanks.


I just use the soil, no screen


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## El Verdugo (Feb 23, 2021)

Thanks for a great thread and read! Thanks to all the contributers inputs! Everything you need for SIP growing and more! Good growing!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 23, 2021)

I did a thing and joined the earthbox crew today! I didn't feel making 6 more inntainers.... man I have a lot of planters now hahhaa I think I just always want to use a larger soil volume then I am getting out of my 5 gallon sips atm. And they have such a height footprint I think I might retire them. Any learning curves I need to know that are different then a normal SIP like I have been using? @Tim Fox


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Feb 23, 2021)

Pack soil down into the wicking part well, and let em rip.

I highly suggest the auto-watering system if you can manage it. I recently saw they have discounts for buying multiple units now. That wasn't there last year..

Plan to have your plants still somewhat small before you go to transplant in after your first run. I suppose one could always just take a knife and trim off sections of roots and then xplant, but it would need recovery time.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 23, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> Pack soil down into the wicking part well, and let em rip.
> 
> I highly suggest the auto-watering system if you can manage it. I recently saw they have discounts for buying multiple units now. That wasn't there last year..
> 
> Plan to have your plants still somewhat small before you go to transplant in after your first run. I suppose one could always just take a knife and trim off sections of roots and then xplant, but it would need recovery time.


Thanks! I grow in inntainers now and five gallon sips so I am familiar with them. I just have never used the earthbox specifically. Sounds like they are a no brainer!


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## myke (Feb 23, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Thanks! I grow in inntainers now and five gallon sips so I am familiar with them. I just have never used the earthbox specifically. Sounds like they are a no brainer!


What’s the diff between sips and earthbox?


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Feb 23, 2021)

myke said:


> What’s the diff between sips and earthbox?


Earthbox is just the name of a commercial product using the same idea.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 23, 2021)

myke said:


> What’s the diff between sips and earthbox?


The other sips I use that are very very similar are the inntainers using 18 gallon totes in the pdf I posted a page or so ago.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 24, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I did a thing and joined the earthbox crew today! I didn't feel making 6 more inntainers.... man I have a lot of planters now hahhaa I think I just always want to use a larger soil volume then I am getting out of my 5 gallon sips atm. And they have such a height footprint I think I might retire them. Any learning curves I need to know that are different then a normal SIP like I have been using? @Tim Fox


Hey congrats , the earth box is a nice unit, what I want to convey to you is be aware of how the over flow hole works , you can't tell how full the reservoir is until it over flows, I used to slide a tray under mine to catch the water , if you used the nauto fill system It fills without over flowing, but if you don't want the work or cost, I think a float with a stick that slides down the fill tube with marks on the stick to show full , half full and empty would be very helpful


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## Tim Fox (Feb 24, 2021)

When I grows veggies outdoors in my driveway using the earth box I just stick the hose in the fill tube and wait until it over flows , but that would make a huge mess indoors


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## Tim Fox (Feb 24, 2021)

@meangreengrowinmachine I once thought about blocking the over flow and cutting a window on the front of the eathbox kinda like my grow box, so you can see the res level and know atba glance where your water level is , but after I found the growbox I couldn't bring myself to cut holes on my earthbox ,


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 24, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> @meangreengrowinmachine I once thought about blocking the over flow and cutting a window on the front of the eathbox kinda like my grow box, so you can see the res level and know atba glance where your water level is , but after I found the growbox I couldn't bring myself to cut holes on my earthbox ,


Dude ... why do we always have the saw ideas haha... I want to use my dremel to make a channel and add clear plexi glued there lol. I will probably do it at least on one of the earthboxes but will for sure be doing something like this on my inntainers in the next few weeks. I will for sure post pics!


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## myke (Feb 24, 2021)

So whats the deal with the water rez going funky?Ill be adding tap to mine it has just chlorine in it.Do you flush it out once in a while to keep it from going bad?
Havent built one yet.Will soon for indoor.
Thanks.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 24, 2021)

myke said:


> So whats the deal with the water rez going funky?Ill be adding tap to mine it has just chlorine in it.Do you flush it out once in a while to keep it from going bad?
> Havent built one yet.Will soon for indoor.
> Thanks.


Never have had any issues with rez going funky myself.


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## myke (Feb 24, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Never have had any issues with rez going funky myself.


Ok thanks. Yeah people use these outside in full sun I thought maybe something was added.
funny when you tell people about SIPs there first question is doesn’t the water go bad.


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Feb 25, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> Hey congrats , the earth box is a nice unit, what I want to convey to you is be aware of how the over flow hole works , you can't tell how full the reservoir is until it over flows, I used to slide a tray under mine to catch the water , if you used the nauto fill system It fills without over flowing, but if you don't want the work or cost, I think a float with a stick that slides down the fill tube with marks on the stick to show full , half full and empty would be very helpful


This is part of the reason I really like the auto waterer. It doesn't allow the water level to breach the overflow.

The one thing you have to do is make sure the box is level though.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 25, 2021)

myke said:


> So whats the deal with the water rez going funky?Ill be adding tap to mine it has just chlorine in it.Do you flush it out once in a while to keep it from going bad?
> Havent built one yet.Will soon for indoor.
> Thanks.


Been using these sips for years , I have never had a res go funky, through the whole grow , just clean water


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## myke (Feb 25, 2021)

What are your thoughts on supporting the inn tainer. I plan on not cutting it down. So the options are the plastic pipe drilled through the outer to support the inner. Or plastic pipe placed vertically in the res to support the inner. 
Another question. Using 27 gallon totes I was going to use two 5” net pots for wicks. Is there a fear of over water ? With not cutting down the inner I assume I’ll get 23-25 gallons of soil in. 
thanks.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 25, 2021)

myke said:


> What are your thoughts on supporting the inn tainer. I plan on not cutting it down. So the options are the plastic pipe drilled through the outer to support the inner. Or plastic pipe placed vertically in the res to support the inner.
> Another question. Using 27 gallon totes I was going to use two 5” net pots for wicks. Is there a fear of over water ? With not cutting down the inner I assume I’ll get 23-25 gallons of soil in.
> thanks.


I would buy pvc connectors if you can find ones long enough, if not cut some pvc to length yourself, and drill holes in them for the water to be able to move through. That is a lot of soil weight to support. I am not sure on the amount of wick for that volume of soil but I think that should be good based on the volumes of soil and wicks I have used in the past. That thing is going to be a BEAST, both in growing ... and in weight lol I made one before and it was just way to large for me.


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## myke (Feb 25, 2021)

Thanks,so go with vertical supports in the res compared to horizontal pipe drilled into the outer.
I have some 5" pipe i can drill and use as vertical supports.5 of them should doit placed like a 5 on a dice,lol.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 25, 2021)

myke said:


> Thanks,so go with vertical supports in the res compared to horizontal pipe drilled into the outer.
> I have some 5" pipe i can drill and use as vertical supports.5 of them should doit placed like a 5 on a dice,lol.


That's the route I would go yes. Form using something like that with my five gallon sips a few tips... make sure they are all as close to exactly the same height as possible.... also cut as evenly as possible.... I would even maybe go as far as gluing them to the bottom of the soil bed so they don't move around. In my five gallons I have had them tip over before but mainly because they were not cut evenly.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 25, 2021)

pic of my res i love being able to look inside,, week 4 flower,


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## Tim Fox (Feb 25, 2021)

week 4 flower


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 25, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> week 4 flowerView attachment 4836679


Looking great as always man! You really know how to maximize that little space!


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## myke (Feb 25, 2021)

Working on it,question,distance between bottom of drain hole to bottom of inner? Air gap I guess.
Thanks.


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## myke (Feb 25, 2021)

Assuming 1/2-3/4"?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 25, 2021)

myke said:


> Working on it,question,distance between bottom of drain hole to bottom of inner? Air gap I guess.
> Thanks.


Big enough so your net pots sit right near the bottom but not directly resting on the bottom. When I cut mine I literally tape a marker to the top of my net pot and draw the line around the bottom.


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## myke (Feb 25, 2021)

Overflow hole is what I should have said. Looking at the PDF it just shows “air gap” so providing no waves. 3/4” should be fine.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 25, 2021)

myke said:


> Overflow hole is what I should have said. Looking at the PDF it just shows “air gap” so providing no waves. 3/4” should be fine.


Nice job on the pvc risers! And yeah 3/4" should be plenty


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 25, 2021)

myke said:


> Overflow hole is what I should have said. Looking at the PDF it just shows “air gap” so providing no waves. 3/4” should be fine.


I think you could grow a literal tree in that thing hahahhaa


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## myke (Feb 25, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Nice job on the pvc risers! And yeah 3/4" should be plenty


Got the 4" pipe from a dumpster


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## myke (Feb 25, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I think you could grow a literal tree in that thing hahahhaa


Ill do one cycle then it wiil go outside for tomatoes.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 25, 2021)

myke said:


> Got the 4" pipe from a dumpster


Up cycling!


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## myke (Feb 25, 2021)

Dropped in two 5g just sitting on the bottom. What do you guys think. I’ll veg for approx. 2 more weeks. How much dirt under the pot? I don’t think I want to fill the tote with dirt. 
what do you think about 2-3” of dirt then drop the gals in?


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## Tim Fox (Feb 25, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Looking great as always man! You really know how to maximize that little space!


Thank you,, and yeah buddy i am very much looking forward to seeing your mods to the earthbox,, i feel the earthbox is stronger, i had to make a wood box to carry my "growbox" brand sip around, because its two pieces and you cant pic it up very well once its loaded with dirt and water,, but the earthbox is sturdy enough you can grab onto it and carry it around loaded up, so if you can make the res have a window or something that would be sweet, 

oh i forgot to tell you that i found the floor off the soil layer with all the holes in it to start bowing down over time and cutting into the air gap, so i cut some pvc spaces to slip under the black seperator , and now its level and strong, i like to pile the dirt much higher than the edge of the sip, mound it up like a dome, you can get an extra few gallons of soil, i learned it on a grow box refill video,


----------



## Tim Fox (Feb 25, 2021)

myke said:


> Overflow hole is what I should have said. Looking at the PDF it just shows “air gap” so providing no waves. 3/4” should be fine.


the commercial sips like the earthbox and my growbox have a one inch gap


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## Tim Fox (Feb 25, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I think you could grow a literal tree in that thing hahahhaa


i think @Humanrob has some really big sips ,, and yeah i believe he had some pretty big plants, i kept a few pictures of his big sip grows,


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## Tim Fox (Feb 25, 2021)

myke said:


> Ill do one cycle then it wiil go outside for tomatoes.


thats so cool,, i rotate my sips between cannabis grows and tomato and hot pepper grows outside during summer


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 25, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> Thank you,, and yeah buddy i am very much looking forward to seeing your mods to the earthbox,, i feel the earthbox is stronger, i had to make a wood box to carry my "growbox" brand sip around, because its two pieces and you cant pic it up very well once its loaded with dirt and water,, but the earthbox is sturdy enough you can grab onto it and carry it around loaded up, so if you can make the res have a window or something that would be sweet,
> 
> oh i forgot to tell you that i found the floor off the soil layer with all the holes in it to start bowing down over time and cutting into the air gap, so i cut some pvc spaces to slip under the black seperator , and now its level and strong, i like to pile the dirt much higher than the edge of the sip, mound it up like a dome, you can get an extra few gallons of soil, i learned it on a grow box refill video,


Thanks for the tips man! I can't wait to get them in from build a soil!


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## Tim Fox (Feb 25, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Thanks for the tips man! I can't wait to get them in from build a soil!


interesting, you didnt buy them from earthbox webpage, ?? does build a soil still do videos of thier grows in earthboxes?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 25, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> interesting, you didnt buy them from earthbox webpage, ?? does build a soil still do videos of thier grows in earthboxes?


Yes they just started a new series actually!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 25, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> interesting, you didnt buy them from earthbox webpage, ?? does build a soil still do videos of thier grows in earthboxes?


Shit... I'm going to need to cook more soil...or buy something for part of this run any suggestions? I plan on flipping in maybe 3 or so weeks. Enough time to cook?


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## myke (Feb 25, 2021)

Rigged up a cork and some straws for a float/gauge.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 25, 2021)

myke said:


> Rigged up a cork and some straws for a float/gauge.


Nice! I have been meaning to do this when I use my inntainers again. Great job man!


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## myke (Feb 25, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Nice! I have been meaning to do this when I use my inntainers again. Great job man!


I asked earlier perhaps it was missed. Any thoughts on how much dirt I should add? Wondering about wicking action and if it makes any difference if I put 2” of soil in or 5”. Before the plant goes in. Thanks.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 25, 2021)

myke said:


> I asked earlier perhaps it was missed. Any thoughts on how much dirt I should add? Wondering about wicking action and if it makes any difference if I put 2” of soil in or 5”. Before the plant goes in. Thanks.


Hmm from the pic it looks like you could do either. I think it will just make be a little longer getting your water roots if you do 5 inches but I dont think it will be a big difference.


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## myke (Feb 26, 2021)

I think you guys are right. This 27g is huge lol. Two plants fit but no room to trellis. I think I’ll save it for outdoors. 
Now there’s two other sizes 64l and 45l ish. I’m thinking the 45 it’s 11.5 gallons. One plant in ea. 
off to the store I go.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 26, 2021)

myke said:


> I think you guys are right. This 27g is huge lol. Two plants fit but no room to trellis. I think I’ll save it for outdoors.
> Now there’s two other sizes 64l and 45l ish. I’m thinking the 45 it’s 11.5 gallons. One plant in ea.
> off to the store I go.


Yeah the 27 gallon sounded great to me too but once I made it, I was like wow this is HUGE! lol


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## Xsan (Feb 26, 2021)

Any issues with the big ones other than not being able to move them? Thinking about one large one with one plant per 5x5 tent.


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## Tim Fox (Feb 26, 2021)

Xsan said:


> Any issues with the big ones other than not being able to move them? Thinking about one large one with one plant per 5x5 tent.


no issues , big ones work great, you could have a long veg time with your set up and grow a real big tree in there,, rock n roll


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## Xsan (Feb 26, 2021)

Thank you @Tim Fox your input is always appreciated! I had a thought about using 2 kiddie pools as a intainer similar to @myke design as they would dimensionally amazing, 45 inches across and 8 inches deep holding roughly 50 gallons but I am concerned about the cheap flimsy plastic


----------



## Tim Fox (Feb 26, 2021)

Xsan said:


> Thank you @Tim Fox your input is always appreciated! I had a thought about using 2 kiddie pools as a intainer similar to @myke design as they would dimensionally amazing, 45 inches across and 8 inches deep holding roughly 50 gallons but I am concerned about the cheap flimsy plastic


that would be something to see for sure, would require all sorts of bracing underneath to support the massive weight of all that soil, hahah, i have seen many things before


----------



## Xsan (Feb 26, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> that would be something to see for sure, would require all sorts of bracing underneath to support the massive weight of all that soil, hahah, i have seen many things before



Wasnt sure how seriously I wanted to consider it but since you didnt say absolutely no way I'm going to try and do some research, I'm wondering if adding a layer of plexiglas or something similar to the bottom with the supports like myke did would do the trick. Obviously I would need more than 5 supports but I'm thinking this might be possible lol. Logical or worth the effort, definitely a whole other discussion but I have a lot of time to try and plan my next setup so I'm all over the place lol


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## myke (Feb 26, 2021)

Brings up another question. Can you do no till with a sip?
I think you’d have to rig up a way to flush out the res.


----------



## Xsan (Feb 26, 2021)

myke said:


> Brings up another question. Can you do no till with a sip?
> I think you’d have to rig up a way to flush out the res.


There are a few guys doing it, I believe @PadawanWarrior is one of them?


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## PadawanWarrior (Feb 26, 2021)

Xsan said:


> There are a few guys doing it, I believe @PadawanWarrior is one of them?


I'm doing no-till, but I've never done a SIP.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 26, 2021)

Xsan said:


> Thank you @Tim Fox your input is always appreciated! I had a thought about using 2 kiddie pools as a intainer similar to @myke design as they would dimensionally amazing, 45 inches across and 8 inches deep holding roughly 50 gallons but I am concerned about the cheap flimsy plastic


At that point I would just buy a soil bed i think from build a soil


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## PadawanWarrior (Feb 26, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> At that point I would just buy a soil bed i think from build a soil


I have a link for $5 off from BAS if anyone wants it.


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Feb 26, 2021)

myke said:


> What are your thoughts on supporting the inn tainer. I plan on not cutting it down. So the options are the plastic pipe drilled through the outer to support the inner. Or plastic pipe placed vertically in the res to support the inner.
> Another question. Using 27 gallon totes I was going to use two 5” net pots for wicks. Is there a fear of over water ? With not cutting down the inner I assume I’ll get 23-25 gallons of soil in.
> thanks.


Fear of underwatering for me in my Costco 27 gallon totes, mine are drying up on the top but I only put 3” holes for the two 5” net pots. Btw, this is how you move them on a dolly with shopping cart wheels 5 1/4” to get over little bumps.


----------



## myke (Feb 26, 2021)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> Fear of underwatering for me in my Costco 27 gallon totes, mine are drying up on the top but I only put 3” holes for the two 5” net pots. Btw, this is how you move them on a dolly with shopping cart wheels 5 1/4” to get over little bumps.
> 
> View attachment 4837988


Nice!Yeah i guess with trees lol,


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 26, 2021)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> Fear of underwatering for me in my Costco 27 gallon totes, mine are drying up on the top but I only put 3” holes for the two 5” net pots. Btw, this is how you move them on a dolly with shopping cart wheels 5 1/4” to get over little bumps.
> 
> View attachment 4837988


Damn that is a freaking amazing looking set up! I'm in a dingy low ceilinged basement hahahaha


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 26, 2021)

myke said:


> Nice!Yeah i guess with trees lol,


Yep! See! Trees!! Hahaha


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Feb 26, 2021)

Funny shit is, I have learned growing 5’ tall plants (from the soil) sucks because I have to get on a stool to check the canopy and I’m 5’11”.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 26, 2021)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> Funny shit is, I have learned growing 5’ tall plants (from the soil) sucks because I have to get on a stool to check the canopy and I’m 5’11”.


What kind of weight do you get from one of those monsters!?


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 26, 2021)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> Funny shit is, I have learned growing 5’ tall plants (from the soil) sucks because I have to get on a stool to check the canopy and I’m 5’11”.


Also I love the like normal house light fixture still on the ceiling!


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## myke (Feb 27, 2021)

So I got some of the smaller totes,45L.Thoughts about using the lids to cover the soil rather then mulch?Ill cut them in half and put a notch for the stem.
Thanks.


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## myke (Feb 27, 2021)

Or the black plastic like in Greens thread?


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## myke (Feb 27, 2021)

Well after building the first one. The other smaller 3 went pretty quick. 45L—11.5 gallons. One is in. Much better for room compared to that giant 27g one lol.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 27, 2021)

myke said:


> Well after building the first one. The other smaller 3 went pretty quick. 45L—11.5 gallons. One is in. Much better for room compared to that giant 27g one lol. View attachment 4838778


Looks great man! I would maybe make the hole in the center bigger as the stalk gets bigger just it is not restricted.


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## myke (Mar 2, 2021)

So do you guys just keep topping up the res or let it go down a gallon or two then top up?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 2, 2021)

myke said:


> So do you guys just keep topping up the res or let it go down a gallon or two then top up?


Depends on how lazy I am or what I have going on really


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Mar 3, 2021)

myke said:


> So do you guys just keep topping up the res or let it go down a gallon or two then top up?


My auto-water setup is set to come on an hour after the lights come on and then go off an hour before dark. It drips as much as it needs and then each individual SIP valve shuts off when full. I end up going through 3-4 gallons per day with 4 SIPs + a dozen or so smart pots on a 2 minute spray timer.


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## myke (Mar 3, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> My auto-water setup it set to come on an hour after the lights come on and then go off an hour before dark. It drips as much as it needs and then each individual SIP valve shuts off when full. I end up going through 3-4 gallons per day with 4 SIPs + a dozen or so smart pots on a 2 minute spray timer.


Cool,So since I just planted a big girl in I should keep it topped up.Ive already top watered the original root ball.My moisture meter said it was low.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 3, 2021)

myke said:


> So do you guys just keep topping up the res or let it go down a gallon or two then top up?


Since I can see my res level through the view port I fill when necessary, in early veg I might top off once a week then later veg every couple of days, during flower now they are really drinking allot of water , now I am topping up daily because they drink about half the res each day


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## myke (Mar 5, 2021)

Things are perking along nicely. I’m adding 2-3 solo cups of water a day. I have the plastic lids on is there any concern of not enough air? I don’t think so but thought I’d ask. Also what about top dressing. I plan on adding some home made ewc do I just mix it in with the soil and leave it? Im kinda paranoid of watering it in and getting runoff in the res. Same goes for dry amendments like Gaia flower. Just mix it in with the ewc and leave it. 
thanks.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 5, 2021)

myke said:


> Things are perking along nicely. I’m adding 2-3 solo cups of water a day. I have the plastic lids on is there any concern of not enough air? I don’t think so but thought I’d ask. Also what about top dressing. I plan on adding some home made ewc do I just mix it in with the soil and leave it? Im kinda paranoid of watering it in and getting runoff in the res. Same goes for dry amendments like Gaia flower. Just mix it in with the ewc and leave it.
> thanks.


yes covering the top soil with a lid or plastic is actually preferable in most cases, it keeps the top layers moist instead of allowig them to dry out too much,, most everything i have read says its not good to top water a sip because it dissrupts the wicking cycle, but part of me feels a little bit cant hurt to bad?,, i know on the octopot sip web page they actually do add nutes to thier res and so did another grower on rollitup who used the octopots his name is captian morgan ,, i believe,, but they dont use salts type nutes its organics of some sort,, i never paid to much attention to it because i mix everything in my soil at te start of the grow and do water only the whole ride,, maybe some of the other people following this thread have more usuful information bout the teas and nutes,, @Humanrob might also have some ideas?,


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## Tim Fox (Mar 6, 2021)

5 weeks flower


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## myke (Mar 6, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> View attachment 48457355 weeks flower


Not a curled leaf in sight.Looks great!


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## Tim Fox (Mar 6, 2021)

myke said:


> Not a curled leaf in sight.Looks great!


thanks some leaves on the front curl down, but its because the doors squash them down when i close them,,this is the best healthy grow i have ever done,, i am really liking the soil mix i put together at the start


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## myke (Mar 6, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> Day 25, this is pretty much a no-touch grow besides two rounds of tea quickly poured on top.
> 
> So far the no-trellis is working and I like that I can just push everything out of the way to pour tea on the surface of each Earth Box without too much trouble. That was always a pain in the ass before to duck under the wire.
> 
> ...


So there is someone poring tea on top,Any tips.I was wondering about top dressing.thx


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## Dreminen169 (Mar 6, 2021)

myke said:


> So there is someone poring tea on top,Any tips.I was wondering about top dressing.thx


Yeah, you can definitely top dress earth boxes!


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## Dreminen169 (Mar 6, 2021)

Here’s my ball SIP with straight perlite


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## myke (Mar 6, 2021)

Dreminen169 said:


> Yeah, you can definitely top dress earth boxes!


From what I understand is just dont get runoff correct? Thanks.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 6, 2021)

myke said:


> From what I understand is just dont get runoff correct? Thanks.


let us know how it goes,, always up for something new


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## Dreminen169 (Mar 6, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> let us know how it goes,, always up for something new


I’ve already been seeing people have great results with top dressing their earthboxes!


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## Tim Fox (Mar 6, 2021)

Dreminen169 said:


> I’ve already been seeing people have great results with top dressing their earthboxes!


in this thread? or a differant thread,,, i dont recall seeing any here,, and if a person is not top watering, , how would those top dressings get broken down and filtered into the lower soil>? mostly because watering from the top on an earthbox disrupts the wicking action and floods the soil


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## Dreminen169 (Mar 6, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> in this thread? or a differant thread,,, i dont recall seeing any here,, and if a person is not top watering, , how would those top dressings get broken down and filtered into the lower soil>? mostly because watering from the top on an earthbox disrupts the wicking action and floods the soil


The advantage of earth boxes is their ability to hold clean water in the reservoir on the bottom so the roots always have access to clean water this is what allows for top dressing. You will get little feeder routes that will come all the way up to the top of the soil because you have a cover on the earth box. These feeder roots Will have access to the top dressing when they need it. This is why it is also hard to overdo top dressing with a Earth boxes because your plants always have access to pure clean water so they can self regulate themselves easier. *You do not have to water top dressing from the top in earthboxes*

I’ll post a link to the thread when I find it. I think it may have been on autoflower.net


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## myke (Mar 6, 2021)

Added in a trellis.Will top dress later tonight.


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## Jesusgrowsmygrass (Mar 6, 2021)

I was watching a video today on youtube's Future Cannabis Project channel and there was a guy explaining soil horizons in raised beds and pots. It seems pretty interesting and sounds like it could perform like a SIP because of the wicking action it provides. Has anyone messed with this idea before?

Quote from youtube:
The bottom layer is the E (eluvial) horizon, sand and gravel, which allows water to pass through but not organic matter. The next layer up is the A horizon, which contains mostly clay and silt and a little sand from the E horizon and some of the organic matter from the final layer (the top layer), which is the O (organic) horizon. The O horizon is an airy mixture of mulch, worm castings and other organic material.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 6, 2021)

I top dress and water with teas. Just not so much that I get run off.


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## myke (Mar 7, 2021)

Well have a look. I removed the lid to add EWC and theirs roots that have gone straight up out and back in again.


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## myke (Mar 7, 2021)

I also noticed how much more it’s drinking now. I’ll be adding daily now. I think I’m going to be adding more ewc to get more hypo miles. Or whatever there called lol. They’ll take care of any gnats.


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## Dreminen169 (Mar 8, 2021)

@Tim Fox you were asking about a thread with earthboxes. Here’s a great grow journal using earthboxes, top dressings, and teas. Great info & I’m sure if you have any questions he would be glad to help out  








Completed - Mars Hydro grow journal: WildBill does Hubbabubbasmelloscope in EarthBoxes under MarsHydro SP3000


With my cherry busted, It's time for some top-notch genetics! Let's see what kind of monsters the SP3000 can make! For the EBs, I made up fresh Roots Organics Original amended with DuMore Chicken crumble, HumiChar, Alfalfa, Thorvin Kelp. I mixed in a tote and wetted the media and amendments with...




www.autoflower.net


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 8, 2021)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> I was watching a video today on youtube's Future Cannabis Project channel and there was a guy explaining soil horizons in raised beds and pots. It seems pretty interesting and sounds like it could perform like a SIP because of the wicking action it provides. Has anyone messed with this idea before?
> 
> Quote from youtube:
> The bottom layer is the E (eluvial) horizon, sand and gravel, which allows water to pass through but not organic matter. The next layer up is the A horizon, which contains mostly clay and silt and a little sand from the E horizon and some of the organic matter from the final layer (the top layer), which is the O (organic) horizon. The O horizon is an airy mixture of mulch, worm castings and other organic material.


Watching this now... our wicking system seems to emulate part of this... but, he talks a ton about the fact that most growers are missing the sand silt and clay that has a lot of beneficial organisms in it... I wonder how we could emulate that in a sip..... could the wick by constructed from a mixture of say... pit or peat moss, sand silt and clay? I wonder....what do you all think?


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## Dreminen169 (Mar 8, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Watching this now... our wicking system seems to emulate part of this... but, he talks a ton about the fact that most growers are missing the sand silt and clay that has a lot of beneficial organisms in it... I wonder how we could emulate that in a sip..... could the wick by constructed from a mixture of say... pit or peat moss, sand silt and clay? I wonder....what do you all think?


I’m about to set up a earth box like that to see if it works. I don’t see why it wouldn’t. I may do the ‘E’ layer on top of some soil first to help with wicking


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 8, 2021)

Dreminen169 said:


> I’m about to set up a earth box like that to see if it works. I don’t see why it wouldn’t. I may do the ‘E’ layer on top of some soil first to help with wicking


You should start a journal for us all to follow along!


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## Tim Fox (Mar 9, 2021)

Dreminen169 said:


> @Tim Fox you were asking about a thread with earthboxes. Here’s a great grow journal using earthboxes, top dressings, and teas. Great info & I’m sure if you have any questions he would be glad to help out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thank you, i look forward to reading about the subject


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## Tim Fox (Mar 9, 2021)

Dreminen169 said:


> I’m about to set up a earth box like that to see if it works. I don’t see why it wouldn’t. I may do the ‘E’ layer on top of some soil first to help with wicking


growboxes and earthboxes work fantastic , i have been growing in them for several years


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## Tim Fox (Mar 9, 2021)

Dreminen169 said:


> @Tim Fox you were asking about a thread with earthboxes. Here’s a great grow journal using earthboxes, top dressings, and teas. Great info & I’m sure if you have any questions he would be glad to help out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i am reading the thread now, he is using living soil, from build a soil , he is not trenching , and he outright says " he wont be using teas" here is a quote "
Trenching in these things is silly, organic or not. Even if it's not a living soil, but more so if it is! LOL! At one time EB said to trench the dolomite, but they now say to mix it into the top 6 inches. Better recommendation, but still silly. It should be mixed everywhere except the wicking pockets.

I just can't see any reason to stray from normal organic practices in using Earthboxes. The only thing I won't be doing is making teas for the EBs. "


he is growing in 2 earth boxes and 2 fabric sacks a total of 4 plants, he is putting teas on the plants that are in the fabric sacks, he is commenting how his soil is all mixed up with worms and microbes from the start with the 2 earthboxes,,, its a good read


Mars Hydro grow journal: WildBill does Hubbabubbasmelloscope in EarthBoxes under MarsHydro SP3000 | Page 5 | The Autoflower Network


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## Tim Fox (Mar 10, 2021)

pics from last night, I slid the sip out of the grow box so i could spray some green cure,, took a few pictures


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## Dreminen169 (Mar 10, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> pics from last night, I slid the sip out of the grow box so i could spray some green cure,, took a few picturesView attachment 4849315View attachment 4849317


That stuff doesn’t affect the taste of the buds?


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## Tim Fox (Mar 10, 2021)

its bas


Dreminen169 said:


> That stuff doesn’t affect the taste of the buds?


its bascically baking soda,, no chemicals it alters the ph level on the leaves so powdery mildew cant grow,,, i had a choice,, either loose the crop to powdery mildew or take action,, there is still 3 weeks left in the grow , wont be any left by that time, besides baking soda has an inert taste, i have used it once before a couple of years ago when i had PM , didnt effect them in any way other than kill the PM,, its good stuff


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## Dreminen169 (Mar 10, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> its bas
> 
> its bascically baking soda,, no chemicals it alters the ph level on the leaves so powdery mildew cant grow,,, i had a choice,, either loose the crop to powdery mildew or take action,, there is still 3 weeks left in the grow , wont be any left by that time, besides baking soda has an inert taste, i have used it once before a couple of years ago when i had PM , didnt effect them in any way other than kill the PM,, its good stuff


I’ll have to pick some up for Veg as a preventative. I’m assuming it’s organic?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 10, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> its bas
> 
> its bascically baking soda,, no chemicals it alters the ph level on the leaves so powdery mildew cant grow,,, i had a choice,, either loose the crop to powdery mildew or take action,, there is still 3 weeks left in the grow , wont be any left by that time, besides baking soda has an inert taste, i have used it once before a couple of years ago when i had PM , didnt effect them in any way other than kill the PM,, its good stuff


You could also always wash your buds if you think there might be any baking soda left... I have personally never had the ... cajhones to dunk my freshly pic plant in a five gallon bucket of water but a lot of people swear by it.


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## Humanrob (Mar 10, 2021)

Just 'for the record'... Greencure is actually potassium bicarbonate, similar to but different than baking soda, which is sodium bicarbonate. I only mention this because you I don't think spraying a plant with baking soda would have the same affect (if anyone was thinking of making a home-made version). And it does rinse off easily in a post harvest wash.


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## Hash Hound (Mar 10, 2021)

I washed my buds all the time when using doc buds high brix grow method. 
Baking soda and Lemon juice half cup each if I remember correct, rinse and rinse again, shake the moisture off and hang to dry.
And I at least rinse off outdoor plants . You wouldn't believe the bugs and bug poop that comes off a plant.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 10, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> I washed my buds all the time when using doc buds high brix grow method.
> Baking soda and Lemon juice half cup each if I remember correct, rinse and rinse again, shake the moisture off and hang to dry.
> And I at least rinse off outdoor plants . You wouldn't believe the bugs and bug poop that comes off a plant.


I have heard a lot of good things about it... maybe I will have to try some next harvest


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## Tim Fox (Mar 10, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> I washed my buds all the time when using doc buds high brix grow method.
> Baking soda and Lemon juice half cup each if I remember correct, rinse and rinse again, shake the moisture off and hang to dry.
> And I at least rinse off outdoor plants . You wouldn't believe the bugs and bug poop that comes off a plant.


For sure, buds washing at harvest is a go!!! I like your wash recipe, thank you,


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## Nwtexan (Mar 11, 2021)

Hello everyone. I ended up here after @NewGrower2011 posted his SIP setup in a post I made about doing grows in fabric pots with Coots mix. Read most of the thread and saw a bunch of different solutions for how to implement these. I'm looking into the best way to incorporate a SIP style grow with living/no till soil and bigger tubs. 
I've found a couple of tubs that would fit perfectly in my space- 30 gallon https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-30-Gal-Tote-Ink-2130-4415707/311021547

I would love to hear any thoughts on both how well this works with soil as well as any tips on best construction and how to keep track of water levels and overflow in an indoor situation.

Any issues? Thing you would change?

Trying to take a step forward for my next cycle


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## myke (Mar 11, 2021)

You have to decide what’s in the future. No till is best in a giant bed like 4x4. 150 gallons + of soil. 
SIPs seam to work really well. I’m 2 weeks in on my first. Amazing growth. 30 gallon is huge and can be done no till but in the end a raised bed is the corvette of no till.


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## Nwtexan (Mar 11, 2021)

myke said:


> You have to decide what’s in the future. No till is best in a giant bed like 4x4. 150 gallons + of soil.
> SIPs seam to work really well. I’m 2 weeks in on my first. Amazing growth. 30 gallon is huge and can be done no till but in the end a raised bed is the corvette of no till.


Are you talking building or buying a raised bed to fit my space? I'm in a tent. With the soil, that would make a permanent space/ 
I'm looking at using my indoor space until early summer when temps get warmer and then continuing when fall comes. The 30 gallons would be a little bit more modular. 
What are you using?


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## myke (Mar 11, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> Are you talking building or buying a raised bed to fit my space? I'm in a tent. With the soil, that would make a permanent space/
> I'm looking at using my indoor space until early summer when temps get warmer and then continuing when fall comes. The 30 gallons would be a little bit more modular.
> What are you using?


I grow in a mix of hydro and organic so no till won’t work for me unless I re do my grow area. 
Back a few pages my sips are there. As said im new to sips and organic. I’m currently in my second organic and transplanted 5 gal girls into my sips cause watering was my nemesis the first grow. If you have your soil ready to go and plants I’d say try the sip. Very easy to construct. 
Long term if your going to continue to grow and no till is something you want to try your better off starting now. It takes a few cycles to get the bed to be the super soil that everyone talks about. Check out the no till thread. Lots of great people around.


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## myke (Mar 11, 2021)

Also I’ll add to start cooking extra soil now. I started back in September last year. Every 3 weeks or so I build 15 gallons of soil and let cook. I now have 30 gallons from last crop that’s been re amended and cooking. I also have 60 more gallons that’s ready for my spring planting. Keep trying different mixes/ amendments eventually you’ll end up with over 100 gallons of some great soil. Oh and if don’t have one. A worm farm is a must. Good luck.


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## Nwtexan (Mar 11, 2021)

myke said:


> Also I’ll add to start cooking extra soil now. I started back in September last year. Every 3 weeks or so I build 15 gallons of soil and let cook. I now have 30 gallons from last crop that’s been re amended and cooking. I also have 60 more gallons that’s ready for my spring planting. Keep trying different mixes/ amendments eventually you’ll end up with over 100 gallons of some great soil. Oh and if don’t have one. A worm farm is a must. Good luck.


I do have a worm farm! I’ve got some “coots mix” that I built around some old soil. Used that as an experiment to see how the amendments would work with it. I have an experiment with some clones in a few different type soils to see how they do.
I’ll be mixing up my real mix next week. I have it in a plastic swimming pool outside until I need it


----------



## myke (Mar 11, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> I do have a worm farm! I’ve got some “coots mix” that I built around some old soil. Used that as an experiment to see how the amendments would work with it. I have an experiment with some clones in a few different type soils to see how they do.
> I’ll be mixing up my real mix next week. I have it in a plastic swimming pool outside until I need it


Just a note about cooking soil outdoors. Gnat. Fucking things. I built my first soil in September last year. Not really paying attention but there were a lot of bugs around and even though I had it in my garage cooking. My dirt was full of fungus gnats. I’m in Canada so winter is fine. But come May I’ll be moving my dirt and worm farm inside and I won’t go near it if I’ve been in the outside garden. Lol. 
Sounds like your ready to go. I built a 27 gallon sip was planing 2 5 gallon in it but it just didn’t work. Too big.


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## Nwtexan (Mar 11, 2021)

myke said:


> Just a note about cooking soil outdoors. Gnat. Fucking things. I built my first soil in September last year. Not really paying attention but there were a lot of bugs around and even though I had it in my garage cooking. My dirt was full of fungus gnats. I’m in Canada so winter is fine. But come May I’ll be moving my dirt and worm farm inside and I won’t go near it if I’ve been in the outside garden. Lol.
> Sounds like your ready to go. I built a 27 gallon sip was planing 2 5 gallon in it but it just didn’t work. Too big. View attachment 4850353


Man. I am aware of that. I have nowhere inside to keep soil.


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## myke (Mar 11, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> Man. I am aware of that. I have nowhere inside to keep soil.


Totes with lids. Some mosquito dunks will help for a preventative


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 11, 2021)

myke said:


> Totes with lids. Some mosquito dunks will help for a preventative


I use diamatecous earth on the tops of my mulch and they are GONEZO!


----------



## raggyb (Mar 11, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> Hello everyone. I ended up here after @NewGrower2011 posted his SIP setup in a post I made about doing grows in fabric pots with Coots mix. Read most of the thread and saw a bunch of different solutions for how to implement these. I'm looking into the best way to incorporate a SIP style grow with living/no till soil and bigger tubs.
> I've found a couple of tubs that would fit perfectly in my space- 30 gallon https://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-30-Gal-Tote-Ink-2130-4415707/311021547
> 
> I would love to hear any thoughts on both how well this works with soil as well as any tips on best construction and how to keep track of water levels and overflow in an indoor situation.
> ...


Just my guesses here; No till requires top dressings. People here lately saying you can top dress a SIP and I think you could but it's a little different. I would just lightly water it in. Futher, I haven't yet but try your sip with a cap fashioned over it, probably landscaping fabric. Since you're going to be plastic all around then I think your wicks won't have to be huge, maybe two 5 inchers, just a guess. If you do it stacked tote in a tote, you will have the air gap around the top of the bottom Tote. I think you want to plug that so light doesn't get in. You may need 1 or 2 small air hole above water level for air to roots. You can rest the top tote on cut pieces of 4 or 6" pvc pipe and might drill holes in pvc to let water flow. Elbow, rubber grommet and clear tubing is one way for water level measure. Something floaty down the fill tube with a long straw glued on top is another. Ping pong ball? Separate input, res and water level control in case your shit gets huge unless you don't mind filling it daily.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 12, 2021)

Hmm I have never dealt with powdery mildew.. is this it?


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## myke (Mar 14, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Hmm I have never dealt with powdery mildew.. is this it?


Sure does look like it,


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## myke (Mar 14, 2021)

raggyb said:


> Just my guesses here; No till requires top dressings. People here lately saying you can top dress a SIP and I think you could but it's a little different. I would just lightly water it in. Futher, I haven't yet but try your sip with a cap fashioned over it, probably landscaping fabric. Since you're going to be plastic all around then I think your wicks won't have to be huge, maybe two 5 inchers, just a guess. If you do it stacked tote in a tote, you will have the air gap around the top of the bottom Tote. I think you want to plug that so light doesn't get in. You may need 1 or 2 small air hole above water level for air to roots. You can rest the top tote on cut pieces of 4 or 6" pvc pipe and might drill holes in pvc to let water flow. Elbow, rubber grommet and clear tubing is one way for water level measure. Something floaty down the fill tube with a long straw glued on top is another. Ping pong ball? Separate input, res and water level control in case your shit gets huge unless you don't mind filling it daily.


I was wondering about light getting in the gap,perhaps Ill tape some cardboard over it.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 14, 2021)

myke said:


> Sure does look like it,


Ugh, ok ill look into solutions. Thanks man!


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## Tim Fox (Mar 15, 2021)

cruising along


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## Nwtexan (Mar 18, 2021)

There are so many different designs out there. SInce I am doing a living soil/Coots style, I need something with a bigger soil container, so am looking at the Earthtainer style builds. Anybody using this combo? 
I like @NewGrower2011 design with the dual wicks https://www.rollitup.org/t/sip-thread-sub-irrigated-planter.904886/page-104#lg=post-14999442&slide=6

Curious how long you can go between waterings with these at high growth periods?

My other thought is to go with the 32 gallon totes with some holes drilled in bottom for drainage and use water halos. I have a 32G reservoir that I have a timer and pump on


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## GrassBurner (Mar 18, 2021)

I'm using the $30 sip planter from Lowes. Brown plastic, soil columns for wicks. 20" wide x 24" long, soil is 6"-8" deep. I absolutely love them. I've switched both tents over to these, just picked up my 4th one last night. Patio Pickers
I'm running coots mix, and have been mixing Dr earth dry ammendments into my mix at half strength. Top dressed with some bloom ammendments when I flipped to flower. Other than that just putting water in the tub. Results have been spectacular so far. Just be ready for your plants to grow, I let my smaller tent get out of control, and it happened quick.


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## myke (Mar 18, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I'm using the $30 sip planter from Lowes. Brown plastic, soil columns for wicks. 20" wide x 24" long, soil is 6"-8" deep. I absolutely love them. I've switched both tents over to these, just picked up my 4th one last night. Patio Pickers
> I'm running coots mix, and have been mixing Dr earth dry ammendments into my mix at half strength. Top dressed with some bloom ammendments when I flipped to flower. Other than that just putting water in the tub. Results have been spectacular so far. Just be ready for your plants to grow, I let my smaller tent get out of control, and it happened quick.


Yes growth is like hydro,my 11gallon totes separated by 4" holds about 3 gallons water.my plants are big and 10 days into flower using almost 1.5 gallons a day! I also made a 27 g tote one,again same 4" pvc supports.It holds 6 gallons with a 1/2" air gap.
I will make the supports taller so say 6" to increase water capacity next round.


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## Nwtexan (Mar 18, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I'm using the $30 sip planter from Lowes. Brown plastic, soil columns for wicks. 20" wide x 24" long, soil is 6"-8" deep. I absolutely love them. I've switched both tents over to these, just picked up my 4th one last night. Patio Pickers
> I'm running coots mix, and have been mixing Dr earth dry ammendments into my mix at half strength. Top dressed with some bloom ammendments when I flipped to flower. Other than that just putting water in the tub. Results have been spectacular so far. Just be ready for your plants to grow, I let my smaller tent get out of control, and it happened quick.


Those are cool! Thanks for sending. How do you run your grow? Single plant per container?


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## Nwtexan (Mar 18, 2021)

myke said:


> Yes growth is like hydro,my 11gallon totes separated by 4" holds about 3 gallons water.my plants are big and 10 days into flower using almost 1.5 gallons a day! I also made a 27 g tote one,again same 4" pvc supports.It holds 6 gallons with a 1/2" air gap.
> I will make the supports taller so say 6" to increase water capacity next round.


I'm eyeing the rubbermaind 32G totes, which would fit well in my tent(2 of them). That would hopefully buy me a few days between watering if i go that route. In addition to the supports, how is yours built? DO you use the lid as a bottom for soil? What are you using for your wicking?


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## GrassBurner (Mar 18, 2021)

Yeah they definitely drink! I've got 3 of the planter box sips, and 1 is a big plastic masonry tub from Lowes. Its got 3 cu ft of perlite, with 10 and 7 gallon fabric pots sitting on top of it. 
It takes 2.5 gallons every other day, and the boxes take 2-2.5 each. Everything is in flower right now, but they have been drinking it up. Its been amazing to watch, coming from top watering traditionally in soil, although I was apparently terrible at that


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## myke (Mar 18, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> I'm eyeing the rubbermaind 32G totes, which would fit well in my tent(2 of them). That would hopefully buy me a few days between watering if i go that route. In addition to the supports, how is yours built? DO you use the lid as a bottom for soil? What are you using for your wicking?


This was march 3, 5" net pot as wick.2 totes stacked 4" pvc risers.45litre,11.5 gallons. hang on ill take another pic.


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## myke (Mar 18, 2021)

Here’s today. 15 days later.


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## myke (Mar 18, 2021)

The 27 gallon one i have 2 net pots.ill use it for tomatoes this spring.


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## Nwtexan (Mar 18, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I'm using the $30 sip planter from Lowes. Brown plastic, soil columns for wicks. 20" wide x 24" long, soil is 6"-8" deep. I absolutely love them. I've switched both tents over to these, just picked up my 4th one last night. Patio Pickers
> I'm running coots mix, and have been mixing Dr earth dry ammendments into my mix at half strength. Top dressed with some bloom ammendments when I flipped to flower. Other than that just putting water in the tub. Results have been spectacular so far. Just be ready for your plants to grow, I let my smaller tent get out of control, and it happened quick.


Those are cool! Thanks for sending. How do you run your grow? Single plant per container?


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## GrassBurner (Mar 18, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> Those are cool! Thanks for sending. How do you run your grow? Single plant per container?


I think 2 plants is the sweet spot at first. If you are an experienced grower, you could probably grow 6 per container with proper training. I put 5 seedlings in 1, and 4 in another, in a 2x4 cabinet. Trainwreck is the first word that comes to mind  I've only been growing about a year, so I just wasn't ready. They grew fast, and got huge. Fan leaves were double the size of the first grow. Ive had to defoliate so much. I supercropped them when they rocketed into my lights, and culled 4 of them. I think I have them somewhat under control 


Here are 2 plants in a patio picker


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## Nwtexan (Mar 18, 2021)

I'm thinking of these https://www.target.com/p/rubbermaid-31gal-roughneck-storage-tote-gray/-/A-79284187#lnk=sametab

My only concern is that I'm in a tent, and with them stacked it will be about 20" total. Tent height is 72". That gives me under 3' for total grow height.


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## myke (Mar 18, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> I'm thinking of these https://www.target.com/p/rubbermaid-31gal-roughneck-storage-tote-gray/-/A-79284187#lnk=sametab
> 
> My only concern is that I'm in a tent, and with them stacked it will be about 20" total. Tent height is 72". That gives me under 3' for total grow height.


Yikes 72" only?How many plants in ea tote?


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## GrassBurner (Mar 18, 2021)

Yeah both my tent heights are 72". You using led's? The plants going crazy are the only one's if had height issues with. But I typically mainline.


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## Nwtexan (Mar 18, 2021)

This is all theoretical at this point. I currently have my plants in 7G airpots. they are a couple of weeks from harvest. I have 4 clones in 3G pots ready to go into flower once these finish. My plan is to transplant them into whatever containers i use, whether they be just the totes with drainage and water halos on timer/pup for watering(current system) or SIPS. I'm thinking it might be good to try the tubs first with my current system. I could always convert them into a SIP with another tub

I'm trying to come up with the best solution for coots style living soil for my next grow. 
It is possible that I could use the tent for veg and then do my flower in the open shed with hanging mylar. Pros are that it increases height. Cons are that I already have temp/humidity/venting dialed in with the tent


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## Nwtexan (Mar 18, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Yeah both my tent heights are 72". You using led's? The plants going crazy are the only one's if had height issues with. But I typically mainline.


yes. 2 200W LED's. Currently my tent is 3x3 with a small 1x3 section for clones, early veg. I'm taking that out(making it 3x4 with an added shelf for storage) and planning on doing my veg in a another area


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## myke (Mar 18, 2021)

This was my 72" tent now its 90"


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 18, 2021)

myke said:


> This was my 72" tent now its 90"


Damn dude you are AMBITIOUS with that little bugger! I love it!


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## Nwtexan (Mar 18, 2021)

myke said:


> This was my 72" tent now its 90"


Agreed! Love it


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 18, 2021)

myke said:


> This was my 72" tent now its 90"


Personally I would just put one earthbox in their and one plant and just top it for 8 kolas and go crazy keep it loooooow


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## myke (Mar 18, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Personally I would just put one earthbox in their and one plant and just top it for 8 kolas and go crazy keep it loooooow


I used it years ago. I had one plant and a 400 hps. Now it’s my drying area.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 18, 2021)

myke said:


> I used it years ago. I had one plant and a 400 hps. Now it’s my drying area.


Ooh gotcha!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 18, 2021)

myke said:


> I used it years ago. I had one plant and a 400 hps. Now it’s my drying area.


Once I get my new light on Friday... I will be flower in a approx 10 x 5 area. 12 plants (6 earthboxes, 6 inntainers) should be interesting!


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## myke (Mar 18, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Once I get my new light on Friday... I will be flower in a approx 10 x 5 area. 12 plants (6 earthboxes, 6 inntainers) should be interesting!


They’ll rock man, I’m only 20 days in to my first sip.Just goes to show how important watering is. Theses sips are the bomb. So far lol. I guess if something fails it’s my dirt not the watering. Lol.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 20, 2021)

7 weeks flower


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 20, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> 7 weeks flowerView attachment 4858454


Gorgeous!


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## Nwtexan (Mar 22, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> 7 weeks flowerView attachment 4858454


Tim, Do you have any pics of how you put this together? I've been combing through the thread trying to find info


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## Nwtexan (Mar 22, 2021)

So, almost commited to this direction for next grow. My soil is ready and I've got the containers picked. 
I'm gonna stack 2 of those rubbermaid containers, and have 2 units side by side in my flower space. 
Hoping to have a decent reservoir, so thinking about using 6" PVC for the base. 

With this in mind-Hope none of these questions are too dumb. 

-Anybody have a line on any net pots 6" deep? I'm assuming i want the pot to get to the bottom of the reservoir. This is the deepest i'm seeing-https://www.amazon.com/Tectsia-inch-Heavy-Round-Design/dp/B085YD8TJ8/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=6+inch+net+pots&qid=1616466715&sr=8-2
-how do you deal with the gap between the two tubs? i know we don't want light getting into the reservoir if possible. 
-can I pack the net pot with soil, or should i fill it with something else?
-if you use cut PVC for the base, are you gluing them in or just letting them free-stand?
-anybody using an overflow hose to preserve the airgap? I am thinking to have the top of the 1/2 hose at the 6" mark, consequently keeping a 1/2 air gap, with the hose from both tubs going to a 5 gallon bucket for overflow. 
-any issues with funkiness in reservoir? Any reason to put anything in it. 

Lastly, I know some of you have had success with living soil and SIPs. I would love to hear any thoughts you have. It seems like a great idea, and i want to make sure i am doing due diligence before I drag 60 gallons into a relatively immovable space. 

As always, thanks for the generosity of sharing your thoughts and experience. 

Much love
Tex


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## Nwtexan (Mar 22, 2021)

Maybe this for the wick?


https://www.amazon.com/NDS-3-Atrium-Grate-Green/dp/B000BVS0BE/ref=asc_df_B016TQKB7A/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198079373928&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13686989776906620665&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033298&hvtargid=pla-351142036996&th=1


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## Tim Fox (Mar 22, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> Tim, Do you have any pics of how you put this together? I've been combing through the thread trying to find info


here you go Stealth Wardrobe Grow | Rollitup


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## Nwtexan (Mar 22, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> here you go Stealth Wardrobe Grow | Rollitup


Thanks! that soil looks good. Like the trenches too. Do you feel that the trenches are important, even with all the stuff in the soil? What are you mixing in to the trenches?


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## myke (Mar 23, 2021)

To make the wicks taller. I was just going to cut out the bottom of the 5” and slide a smaller one in. Weight of the dirt will hold them together


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## myke (Mar 23, 2021)

No need to glue the risers,I would look at the stiffness of the tote bottom.Your drilling a lot of holes.So wider and more supports I think is better.An up side down grocery basket cut to the right height would work,lots of holes and strong.
I used same dirt for the wick.Yes cover the gap between so air can get in but not light.Use the lid , works well to keep the surface damp.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 23, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> Thanks! that soil looks good. Like the trenches too. Do you feel that the trenches are important, even with all the stuff in the soil? What are you mixing in to the trenches?


Yes this has been my best grow ever , water only the whole ride , we thought the soil might be too hot , but once the roots hit the reservoir it was off to the races , yes I like to do both nutes in the soil and the trenches were straight tomato fertilizer high in calcium


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## raggyb (Mar 23, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> So, almost commited to this direction for next grow. My soil is ready and I've got the containers picked.
> I'm gonna stack 2 of those rubbermaid containers, and have 2 units side by side in my flower space.
> Hoping to have a decent reservoir, so thinking about using 6" PVC for the base.
> 
> ...


sorry I've just done what i've done with what I could find and don't know if it could be better. on one i have with pvc support I drilled small holes in the PVC so water gets inside and the basin can hold more water. but i hope doing that doesnt make some chemicals leach out of the pvc? I haven't been able to find info on that being a problem. but pvc won't move with weight of the dirt on it. hose overflow would be nice instead of just a hole. I just do water but i like the sound of the stuff these guys are puting in, Labs or whatever it was, if you're into that. Someone suggested 20% perlite and 80% pete in the wick so I went with that. You can stuff some rolled up old landscape fabric in the gap to block the light gap. I still need to try making a cap. I mulched instead. You may have to top water to get the wicking action started.


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## myke (Mar 23, 2021)

I’ve been adding straight tap water into mine.it has about 3 ppm of chlorine in it. Hoping that keeps it free of the nasties.


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## ilovereggae (Mar 23, 2021)

I'm getting ready to transplant into my Earthbox Jrs as soon as I get my dna results back! Within the next few days I should be up and running.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 23, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I'm getting ready to transplant into my Earthbox Jrs as soon as I get my dna results back! Within the next few days I should be up and running.


looking forward to seeing it


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## Tim Fox (Mar 23, 2021)

myke said:


> I’ve been adding straight tap water into mine.it has about 3 ppm of chlorine in it. Hoping that keeps it free of the nasties.


i would think so? but my res water never gets funky,, i guess i am lucky/?? i just ad tap water ( well) the whole way


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## myke (Mar 23, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> i would think so? but my res water never gets funky,, i guess i am lucky/?? i just ad tap water ( well) the whole way


I’ve done years of hydro so I know all about “funky water” lol.


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## myke (Mar 26, 2021)

I'm noticing how warm the top soil is lately.Is this normal?The temp on my cement floor is around 65f but the inner tote is quite warm to the touch.Could this be the dry fertilizer ive been top dressing with?Its like one big compost pile under the lid.LOL.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 26, 2021)

8 weeks flower


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## raggyb (Mar 26, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> 8 weeks flowerView attachment 4863488


nice strawberries plums and chocolates emanating from down there left center


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## Tim Fox (Mar 26, 2021)

raggyb said:


> nice strawberries plums and chocolates emanating from down there left center


thank you, i just love watching the fall colors come out


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## Hash Hound (Mar 26, 2021)

surprised me to see such a lack of roots at the bottom of this 5g sip planter. It's like there's a inch plus layer right above the wick plate without any roots, and none at all peeking though the plate into the reservoir. The plant wasn't that big, but why not make it to the plate?


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## raggyb (Mar 27, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> surprised me to see such a lack of roots at the bottom of this 5g sip planter. It's like there's a inch plus layer right above the wick plate without any roots, and none at all peeking though the plate into the reservoir. The plant wasn't that big, but why not make it to the plate?
> 
> View attachment 4863683View attachment 4863684


is that black part the wick? is it the whole diameter of the pot? Just trying to understand. was it homemade?


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## raggyb (Mar 27, 2021)

Wacky SIP room


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## Hash Hound (Mar 27, 2021)

raggyb said:


> is that black part the wick? is it the whole diameter of the pot? Just trying to understand. was it homemade?


Its hard to see in this pic, but the plate is about two inches shorter and sits on the rim of the rez, and the over hang is where the overflow aeration holes are, and the platform has two curved cups that get filled with soil to act as the wick
they are called eco grow pots


this is the same type plate only from a 7g pot. I'm using it as a swick riser eliminating the tub of perlite. 


it's working fine as you can see. Bubba Kush chopped her today, loads of seeds either from the 4 nanners I found, or from when I brush pollinated a Widow cola I flicked the brush over a cola of the BK. Not a seed seen on the Widow...yet


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## Nwtexan (Mar 27, 2021)

Ok, almost finished the planter using 31 gallon totes.... And have almost made it through the thread--Whew, that's a lot of posts!Will post a couple of pics tomorrow. I have a couple of questions. 
-For those of you using living/no till soil, anything special you need to do/or do regularly?
-should I use a cover crop(clover) or use a cover/plastic over the top?
-I notice that some people put the lids(with the middle cut out) over the top. Wouldn't this stop air from getting down into the reservoir? I have the overflow connected to a tube going to a bucket, do there aren't currently any air holes on the sides. 
-I know @Tim Fox doesn't like to use cloth at the bottom of the grow medium. I'm leaning that way. Any strong opinions for?
-I have very low mineral well water(around 75PPM) and about 40 of that is Calcium. I see that a lot of folks were using Calmag in some form or another, especially if using RO water. mine is pretty close to that. should I be using Calmag?

I've got 4 clones that will be going in the 2 30 gallons. They are currently in 3G fabric pots. I'll transplant as soon as I feel solid on my soil.


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## raggyb (Mar 27, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> Its hard to see in this pic, but the plate is about two inches shorter and sits on the rim of the rez, and the over hang is where the overflow aeration holes are, and the platform has two curved cups that get filled with soil to act as the wick
> they are called eco grow pots
> View attachment 4864377
> 
> ...


whoa, nice photo. that's very weird about the seeds. Well you grew it great, but maybe the drainage aeration hole is too high on that. It shrinks the air gap. But I can see you can't go too low with it either or it won't hold any water. maybe that's the roots issue reason


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## Tim Fox (Mar 27, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> Ok, almost finished the planter using 31 gallon totes.... And have almost made it through the thread--Whew, that's a lot of posts!Will post a couple of pics tomorrow. I have a couple of questions.
> -For those of you using living/no till soil, anything special you need to do/or do regularly?
> -should I use a cover crop(clover) or use a cover/plastic over the top?
> -I notice that some people put the lids(with the middle cut out) over the top. Wouldn't this stop air from getting down into the reservoir? I have the overflow connected to a tube going to a bucket, do there aren't currently any air holes on the sides.
> ...


There has to be a hole to the outside and the hole has to be in the air gap, the air gap is important, more so fresh air needs to be able get into that gap


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## Nwtexan (Mar 27, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> There has to be a hole to the outside and the hole has to be in the air gap, the air gap is important, more so fresh air needs to be able get into that gap


I know that in the earthtainer build guide he talks about the sides between the tubs being the air gap.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 28, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> I know that in the earthtainer build guide he talks about the sides between the tubs being the air gap.


sure, that is a gap, but in order for the air gap to do its intended purpose it has to be under the soil and above the water line of the Res the gap makes it so the roots have to jump over the gap,, ( many roots also go right down the wicks also), but the air gap roots will provide massive oxygen to the roots , just like what would happen in hydro,, the gap is usually at least 1 inch,, air gap on the side would not provide any air to the roots , unless there was 2 air gaps,, the side and underneath,, then you would have more available oxygen in that case,,, one reason to have a hole to the outside of the sip at the lower air gap level is to push and pull new air into the air gap cavity each time the water level rises and falls with fillings


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## GrassBurner (Mar 28, 2021)

I've got a question for you Tim. After each cycle, do you remove your soil from the sip, to clean out the reservoir and remove the old roots?


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## Tim Fox (Mar 28, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> I know that in the earthtainer build guide he talks about the sides between the tubs being the air gap.


Check out this picture I took of the inntainer construction guide


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## Tim Fox (Mar 28, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I've got a question for you Tim. After each cycle, do you remove your soil from the sip, to clean out the reservoir and remove the old roots?


Yes I do, my wife gets the soil for her outdoor gardens (and the gardens love it) and I mix up a new batch of soil every grow I clean out the res and remove all roots , but I have seen on earth box grow video on youtube where they pull out the root ball as best they can and reamend the soil with dry nutes and replant, but it was geared for people growing vegetables, but if you like to reuse your soil I would still dump it in a wheel barrow and get out the roots and reamend the soil in the wheel barrow and put back into the sip, that's how I roll , but there are many ways to build a mouse trap


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## GrassBurner (Mar 28, 2021)

Awesome, I appreciate it!! Thats exactly what I'll do. Dump it, remove the roots, add my dry ammendments, clean res, and fill it back up


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## Nwtexan (Mar 28, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> sure, that is a gap, but in order for the air gap to do its intended purpose it has to be under the soil and above the water line of the Res the gap makes it so the roots have to jump over the gap,, ( many roots also go right down the wicks also), but the air gap roots will provide massive oxygen to the roots , just like what would happen in hydro,, the gap is usually at least 1 inch,, air gap on the side would not provide any air to the roots , unless there was 2 air gaps,, the side and underneath,, then you would have more available oxygen in that case,,, one reason to have a hole to the outside of the sip at the lower air gap level is to push and pull new air into the air gap cavity each time the water level rises and falls with fillings


Thanks Tim. I understand. Probably should have posted pics first as I’m muddying the waters. I actually have a hole creating a 1” air gap. This hole is connected to a hose running into a bucket to catch overflow. So the air gap is there and in theory there is quite a bit of airflow into this gap from the space between the two tubs on the side. My concern, or more accurately, query, was that if you latch the top on, especially with plastic over lower tub, you are covering up the main source for air.

I built both tubs slightly different. One has a single wick and the other has 2, spaced out evenly. I figured I could see which performed better as I’m running 4 clones.
I also ordered some cover crop and was considering doing that on one and covering the other, again to see what might perform best


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## myke (Mar 28, 2021)

Ive left the gap between the 2 totes alone,shade from leaves stops light getting in.Keeping my tote lid on I get a small dry spot from the gap where I cut the lid.
I would do 2 wicks in ea,plants will pull as they need.one directly under ea plant.


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## myke (Mar 28, 2021)

Lids vs cover crop,Id go lids keeps the humidity up on the surface.After top dressing the EWC stays soft.If it drys at all it goes hard and stops working.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 28, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Awesome, I appreciate it!! Thats exactly what I'll do. Dump it, remove the roots, add my dry ammendments, clean res, and fill it back up


You can do no till in sips too. It just depends on what you want to do. Watch the 10' x 10' videos from Jeremy on build a soil. He's doing a no till, and a living soil side by side in earth boxes currently.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 28, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> You can do no till in sips too. It just depends on what you want to do. Watch the 10' x 10' videos from Jeremy on build a soil. He's doing a no till, and a living soil side by side in earth boxes currently.


build a soil is good stuff,, for sure


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## GrassBurner (Mar 28, 2021)

I'm just worried about the old roots in the reservoir rotting and getting the water funky. Is this a valid concern? Cleaning one out once every 4 months isn't bad.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 28, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I'm just worried about the old roots in the reservoir rotting and getting the water funky. Is this a valid concern? Cleaning one out once every 4 months isn't bad.


very valid concern, i would get them out, in my grows there are LOTS of roots down in there,,


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 28, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> build a soil is good stuff,, for sure


Well I'm just starting out organic, but I'm glad I was turned on to them. I've been using their ewc, craft blend, and grokashi for veg. I've just gotten their build a flower and build a bloom for flower, and I'm waiting on my earth box and barley straw. I'm gonna get bas 3.0 for the earth box and turn it into no till, if all goes well. Lol


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## GrassBurner (Mar 28, 2021)

Yeah thats what I was thinking. I believe it was you that posted a pic with the reservoir full of roots, thats a lot of plant matter. It will be nice to see, and compare root masses between grows as well.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 28, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I'm just worried about the old roots in the reservoir rotting and getting the water funky. Is this a valid concern? Cleaning one out once every 4 months isn't bad.


I would take roots out of res, but you can leave the ones in the soil for no till. They'll eventually break down and add nutrition back to the soil. At least I believe that's how it works. Lol


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## GrassBurner (Mar 28, 2021)

Yeah the only way to get to my res, is by removing the soil. Im not sure how the Earthboxes work, I use one called the "Patio Picker". A big plastic "shelf" with tons of square holes sits above the res, and the corners are open to pack in the soil columns that wick the moisture. Then you fill the whole thing up with soil. 
Probably a good idea to take the soil from the corners that has been saturated so long, and put it back into my soil outside? I've still got a few cubic feet in my pile of fresh soil out there.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 28, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Yeah the only way to get to my res, is by removing the soil. Im not sure how the Earthboxes work, I use one called the "Patio Picker". A big plastic "shelf" with tons of square holes sits above the res, and the corners are open to pack in the soil columns that wick the moisture. Then you fill the whole thing up with soil.
> Probably a good idea to take the soil from the corners that has been saturated so long, and put it back into my soil outside? I've still got a few cubic feet in my pile of fresh soil out there.


Shit you're right. Earth boxes need the soil removed also. I'm gonna ask Jeremy about removing the roots from the res and see what he says. He pulled a root mass from the soil from a previous run and he said you can just leave it in there, so I don't know now.


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## myke (Mar 28, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I would take roots out of res, but you can leave the ones in the soil for no till. They'll eventually break down and add nutrition back to the soil. At least I believe that's how it works. Lol


I think ideally you cycle the sips,so after cleaning the res out put it a side with water in it and let it cook.You need space though and I aint got it lol.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 28, 2021)

myke said:


> I think ideally you cycle the sips,so after cleaning the res out put it a side with water in it and let it cook.You need space though and I aint got it lol.


Jeremy at bas, put in a cover crop, mulched it, chopped the crop, added some ewc, and craft blend, covered it and let it cook.That's probably the route I'll take. I have the space, just not the patience.... but I'm working on that. Lol


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## Nwtexan (Mar 28, 2021)

myke said:


> Ive left the gap between the 2 totes alone,shade from leaves stops light getting in.Keeping my tote lid on I get a small dry spot from the gap where I cut the lid.
> I would do 2 wicks in ea,plants will pull as they need.one directly under ea plant.


I’ve got one of each. pretty cheap to make, so if one works(or doesn’t) better than the other, I will go with that.


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## myke (Mar 29, 2021)

Youll like the size of those,hopefully you dont have to move them haha.Mine are drinking 2 gallons a day now.Ill be putting in taller risers next round so I dont have to fill so often.Or dont grow such big plants lol.


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## Nwtexan (Mar 29, 2021)

myke said:


> Youll like the size of those,hopefully you dont have to move them haha.Mine are drinking 2 gallons a day now.Ill be putting in taller risers next round so I dont have to fill so often.Or dont grow such big plants lol.


Trying to come up with a way to fill them. There is a mod on the earthtainer 3 instructions using the earth box aws


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## Star Dog (Mar 29, 2021)

I've got a 2x6" pot set up, tub, valve etc home made effort 2 pots standing in nutrient refills and repeats, I've only used perlite with it previously, I'm planning on using again soon with some coco. 
I've no perlite for the bottom 1" of the pot but I've got a bag of hydroton will that work, instead, does it have capillary qualities like perlite? 

Without capillary it wouldn't work when the tray is low.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 30, 2021)

harvest time on my water only SIP grow


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## myke (Mar 31, 2021)

Did you take a pic of the roots/res?Id like to see that.

Was that just a water rinse?Im thinking of when i make hash doesn't that knock off tricomes?


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## Tim Fox (Mar 31, 2021)

myke said:


> Did you take a pic of the roots/res?Id like to see that.
> 
> Was that just a water rinse?Im thinking of when i make hash doesn't that knock off tricomes?


the water contaned H2O2 ( hydrogen peroxide) and Green Cure ( sodium biocarbonate) its called bud washing,, here is a video Jorge Cervantes: Washing Away Powdery Mildew - YouTube 
no i does not removed any trichs,,, its a pretty common practice,, especially with outdoor growers

the Sip is sitting outside, i have not seperated it yet,, maybe on the weekend , and i will take res pics and root pics then, there are lots of them because i could see the roots thru the water fill port the entire grow


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## ilovereggae (Apr 4, 2021)

had a little crisis at home to deal with that put me behind schedule so these plants should have gone in here last week. hopefully I can revive them a bit before I flip.


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## Nwtexan (Apr 5, 2021)

All right. I spent a bit of time trying to figure out if my soil was gonna cut it. Finally made the jump and have 4 plants in my 2 SIPS.
My Coots style mix had some weird test numbers and being a SIP, I couldn’t easily flush out any excess stuff. I was a little paranoid as I put one of the clones in an early version of my soil and it had all kinds of problems.

I trenched in a little bit of flower girl into each one and have them covered with plastic.

Any reason to mulch underneath this?bokashi? Barley? Anything else to be aware of?


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 5, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> had a little crisis at home to deal with that put me behind schedule so these plants should have gone in here last week. hopefully I can revive them a bit before I flip.
> 
> View attachment 4870996


Do you cycle your soil in those or do you add new?


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## GrassBurner (Apr 5, 2021)

Got everything cleaned and ready for the next round  

Made 1 modification to the PatioPicker planters. I cut some landscaping fabric to only cover the plastic shelf with holes, to keep the soil out of the reservoir. It was probably 1/3 full of dirt. That dirt though, was completely full of worms. There were hundreds throughout the planter. Took the old soil, mixed it into my pile of "fresh" soil, and put 12 gallons of that back into each sip. Then mixed in Dr Earth Homegrown at 1/2 recommended amount, kelp meal, agsil, malted barley powder, and big 6. Washed the sips with hot soapy water, and got everything hauled back into the tent. Got 8 regular seeds in the planters, and a couple fems in the dwc tote.


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 5, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Got everything cleaned and ready for the next round
> View attachment 4871974
> Made 1 modification to the PatioPicker planters. I cut some landscaping fabric to only cover the plastic shelf with holes, to keep the soil out of the reservoir. It was probably 1/3 full of dirt. That dirt though, was completely full of worms. There were hundreds throughout the planter. Took the old soil, mixed it into my pile of "fresh" soil, and put 12 gallons of that back into each sip. Then mixed in Dr Earth Homegrown at 1/2 recommended amount, kelp meal, agsil, malted barley powder, and big 6. Washed the sips with hot soapy water, and got everything hauled back into the tent. Got 8 regular seeds in the planters, and a couple fems in the dwc tote.


You always replace after a cycle?


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## GrassBurner (Apr 5, 2021)

This will be my second cycle with sips, but I think I'm gonna clean them out everytime. I was losing quite a bit of volume in the reservoir. Alot of the soil had washed out of the soil columns, so I imagine I'm still gonna lose a little space. But I also want to make sure things stay clean.


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## ilovereggae (Apr 5, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Do you cycle your soil in those or do you add new?


this is my first round using sips ever. soil is BAS Light mix that I have run a few times before, but i ammended w EWC and made trenches of DTE Vegan mix dry nutes.


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 6, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> This will be my second cycle with sips, but I think I'm gonna clean them out everytime. I was losing quite a bit of volume in the reservoir. Alot of the soil had washed out of the soil columns, so I imagine I'm still gonna lose a little space. But I also want to make sure things stay clean.


I was wondering because Jeremy at bas is running an earth box that he's cycling, he left the root mass in the soil, but I gotta wonder about roots that make it into the res. How would you get them out without pulling the soil? Can you just leave them in there?


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 6, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> this is my first round using sips ever. soil is BAS Light mix that I have run a few times before, but i ammended w EWC and made trenches of DTE Vegan mix dry nutes.


My earth box should arrive today. I was thinking of putting bas 3.0 in it, and take it from there. Did you use a cover crop?


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Apr 6, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> View attachment 4871957


The bottom of commercial earthboxes have much bigger holes. Yours looks like they may get clogged and not work as well.



The soil doesn't fall through as easily as one might think. That's the only improvement I can see that would probably need to be made.


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## ilovereggae (Apr 6, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> My earth box should arrive today. I was thinking of putting bas 3.0 in it, and take it from there. Did you use a cover crop?


no cover crop. after I took that photo I did a light top watering in of the plants w some horticultural coconut, kelp meal, and a little recharge, then covered the bed like @Tim Fox does with the plastic they provide. I will add water to the sips today.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 6, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> no cover crop. after I took that photo I did a light top watering in of the plants w some horticultural coconut, kelp meal, and a little recharge, then covered the bed like @Tim Fox does with the plastic they provide. I will add water to the sips today.


yup, the plastic helps keep the soil moist all the way to the top, i now use big plastic trash bags and just clip them to the edge of the earth box


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## Nwtexan (Apr 6, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> The bottom of commercial earthboxes have much bigger holes. Yours looks like they may get clogged and not work as well.
> 
> View attachment 4872243
> 
> The soil doesn't fall through as easily as one might think. That's the only improvement I can see that would probably need to be made.


Thanks! My design is copied from the earthtainer pdf which is floating around in this thread. Planning on getting some commercial units at some point but wanted to try this first


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## Nwtexan (Apr 10, 2021)

Plants are in and digging it. I just added some freshly ground malted barley(about 1C per container), and spread some straw on top. Grabbed a few earth worms and threw them in for good measure. 
Curious if anyone is using TM7 and if so, are you dry amending similar to the barley?


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## ilovereggae (Apr 11, 2021)

1 week in. I think they work


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## ilovereggae (Apr 17, 2021)

Day 1 vs Day 13 in the Earthbox Jr's. Some topped once or twice and use of garden wire to try to keep an even height. These are all from seed so not too worried about that and not going to bother with scrog.



going to flip tomorrow after I take some clones from the lowers.


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## GrassBurner (Apr 17, 2021)

Looking great @ilovereggae These sips are the truth! In the spirit of day 1 to 13, here are my plants at day 1 and 13 in the planters.


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## Nwtexan (Apr 25, 2021)

This run is a bit of an experiment to get my understanding together with the SIPs and no till. 
Things are going reasonably well. I'm dealing with too much Nitrogen, that seems to be creating some other issues. This looks to my eye to be a Potassium deficiency(which I had in flower in my last, non SIP, grow as well). 
With this route, it seems there isn't a ton you can do once you are having any issues. I have some malted barley and some TM7, both which have been lightly watered in from top. 

Trying to figure out what to do with this soil once this cycle is done. I would like to try to dial it in a bit more to get past some of these issues, but it is a little challenging(at least to me). My soil test came back with really low nitrogen. I amended with some bloodmeal (sparingly) and got another test that put the N levels in the perfect region. My thought is that all the micro action brought the other nitrogen sources to life(crab meal, kelp meal, etc) causing the toxicity. There is a lot of learning to do about the interaction of different nutrients and how overabundance of one can cause deficiencies with another.


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## Xsan (Apr 25, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> This run is a bit of an experiment to get my understanding together with the SIPs and no till.
> Things are going reasonably well. I'm dealing with too much Nitrogen, that seems to be creating some other issues. This looks to my eye to be a Potassium deficiency(which I had in flower in my last, non SIP, grow as well).
> With this route, it seems there isn't a ton you can do once you are having any issues. I have some malted barley and some TM7, both which have been lightly watered in from top.
> 
> Trying to figure out what to do with this soil once this cycle is done. I would like to try to dial it in a bit more to get past some of these issues, but it is a little challenging(at least to me). My soil test came back with really low nitrogen. I amended with some bloodmeal (sparingly) and got another test that put the N levels in the perfect region. My thought is that all the micro action brought the other nitrogen sources to life(crab meal, kelp meal, etc) causing the toxicity. There is a lot of learning to do about the interaction of different nutrients and how overabundance of one can cause deficiencies with another.



I am not an expert by any stretch but I will bet that the ones who are will want to know what your current soil mix is to help troubleshoot or adjust for the next cycle. Buildasoil sells a lot of products to help soil and gets good reviews. I havent used them yet but plan to.


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## Nwtexan (Apr 25, 2021)

Xsan said:


> I am not an expert by any stretch but I will bet that the ones who are will want to know what your current soil mix is to help troubleshoot or adjust for the next cycle. Buildasoil sells a lot of products to help soil and gets good reviews. I havent used them yet but plan to.


My soil mix was a Coots style mix that had some more of the dry amendments(based on some experienced members advice) It had the 1/3 mix of compost(bu's bio), aeration(perlite and pumice) and peat. I had all the rock dusts to the amounts per Coot's recipe. I originally did the 1/2C per CF of Neem, Karanja, Crab meal, and kelp meal, but ended up adding a bit more. 

I used this recipe as my template




__





Coots Soil Mix | Organic Soil & Compost | Growing Organic


This Coots soil mix is not our own, but it is what we have found to work best for most plants. All credit for this recipe goes to Clackamas Coot.




growingorganic.com


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## ilovereggae (Apr 26, 2021)

Flower day 7 (3 weeks in the sip)


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 26, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> Flower day 7 (3 weeks in the sip)
> 
> View attachment 4887901


Lookin good man! Wishin ya luck!


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## GrassBurner (Apr 27, 2021)

Time for a new cycle  Got the old sips downstairs, old soil out, mixed into the fresh soil outside, and new soil brought back in. Cleaned out the sips, and now we're ready to fill them back up. 
The reservoir was full of black gold  Tons of worms again down there, similar to the last sips I cleaned out. 


Rinsed everything out, you can see how much soil was in there. I'm going to put landscaping fabric across the plastic shelf to help mitigate the problem. Roots have no issues getting into the reservoir, saw one poking through the overflow on the last sips I recently cycled with fabric on the shelf.


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## ilovereggae (Apr 27, 2021)

So I have a question for you all and need some advice. I am having a funky sulfur smell come from the new ones I just started.

The one w the cover on it was started this time last week. That one is rocking already. Probably will go into flower this weekend.

The other 2 I did this weekend and stuck a few clones into them.

I ran out of dirt from my first tote so moved on to my next one. I have 3 of these totes I put soil from last round, ammended w ewc and DTE veganic mix and left to cook since Dec.

This 2nd tote was a little dried out, I guess I hadn't added as much water to it or turned over the soil as much. It didn't smell any kind of way when I did add water to premoisten it. even now the tote doesn't smell.

I added my normal DTE vegan mix trenches, and then topped off the sips with EWC. the only thing I did do differently was mix in some of the BAS pinto bean compost which was bone dry. I top wet everything to get it nice (not too wet tho) and then planted my clones. I did not fill the sips with water yet.

Within 2 or 3 hours when I unzipped the tent, I smelled funk. like feet. I looked it up and realized I must have anaerobic bacteria so I pulled the covers off and turned my exhaust fan on a higher speed. within 24 hrs or so the smell had subsided and the top layer of soil was starting to dry out. I figured maybe I could use beneficial bacteria to kill the bad ones so I sprinkled some bokashi grain on top of the sips to at least try to help cover up the last of the smell. by the next day all I smelled was bokashi. so I decided it was time to add water, and to help boost the benes even more, made up a ewc, kelp meal, coconut powder, and touch of Recharge "tea" like I did for the plants that are in flower now. just a few oz each to wet the top of the soil a little. covers went back on.

this morning g I checked and the funky smell was back. have a little fuzz starting from the bokashi already so maybe that will knock it out. but I peeled back the covers again and turned the fan back up.

is this a lost cause? should I dump the dirt and start fresh any? any other ideas?

it would be annoying to lose these plants but they are all clones so I still have the genetics and more clones i can replace these with,, and would rather lose a couple weeks of growth than be fighting issues the whole time. but if it's just a matter of waiting a few days I will just be patient and wait for things to sort themself out.


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 27, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Time for a new cycle  Got the old sips downstairs, old soil out, mixed into the fresh soil outside, and new soil brought back in. Cleaned out the sips, and now we're ready to fill them back up.
> The reservoir was full of black gold  Tons of worms again down there, similar to the last sips I cleaned out.
> View attachment 4888855
> 
> ...


What you got there, earth box jr?


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## GrassBurner (Apr 27, 2021)

I think they're called "Patio Pickers". They're the $30 planters from Lowes. Measure 20" wide and 24" long.

Between them and the Dr Earth dry ammendments, my plants have been super happy. A little too happy with how my first complete run in these got out of control. I was not ready 

My plants going now are exploding. 6 of the 8 have been topped once. 
. Thinking about making some rings out of 1/2" round steel, possibly rebar. Somewhere around a 10" diameter. Plop them down around each plant, and attach my wires to train branches.


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## GrassBurner (Apr 28, 2021)

It's training day!! These hookers were getting out of control.


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 29, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I think they're called "Patio Pickers". They're the $30 planters from Lowes. Measure 20" wide and 24" long.
> 
> Between them and the Dr Earth dry ammendments, my plants have been super happy. A little too happy with how my first complete run in these got out of control. I was not ready
> 
> ...


Why not use concrete mesh?


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## Nwtexan (Apr 29, 2021)

I'm kind of falling between a few forums with this, as it is a plant problem with a no till soil in a SIP. 
These plants were transplanted into the SIP about 7 weeks ago from cuttings. The plants looked great before transplant. The soil is a Coots mix. I had the soil tested before planting and can post test results if anyone needs them(Ive posted these a couple of times). Since transplant, I have added some malted barley and some TM7. 
I was noticing nitrogen toxicity a couple of weeks after planting. Could this be causing all of the issues? 

My concern is more about next run than this one, as this was kind of a test run. I don't want to be subjecting another round of plants to the same issues, but not sure how to address or fix the issue. I could obviously get a soil test at the end of the run, before replant, but I am a bit unsure as I already did a test before this run, and still ran into these issues with the test coming back pretty solid.


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## GrownAtHighAltitude (Apr 29, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> I'm kind of falling between a few forums with this, as it is a plant problem with a no till soil in a SIP.
> These plants were transplanted into the SIP about 7 weeks ago from cuttings. The plants looked great before transplant. The soil is a Coots mix. I had the soil tested before planting and can post test results if anyone needs them(Ive posted these a couple of times). Since transplant, I have added some malted barley and some TM7.
> I was noticing nitrogen toxicity a couple of weeks after planting. Could this be causing all of the issues?


Did you let the soil cook for awhile before you used it? What kind of compost did you use?


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## Nwtexan (Apr 29, 2021)

GrownAtHighAltitude said:


> Did you let the soil cook for awhile before you used it? What kind of compost did you use?


It "cooked" for about 3-4 weeks, though I was under the impression that the Coots mix is usable immediately. I used Bo's biodynamic compost


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## raggyb (Apr 29, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> I'm kind of falling between a few forums with this, as it is a plant problem with a no till soil in a SIP.
> These plants were transplanted into the SIP about 7 weeks ago from cuttings. The plants looked great before transplant. The soil is a Coots mix. I had the soil tested before planting and can post test results if anyone needs them(Ive posted these a couple of times). Since transplant, I have added some malted barley and some TM7.
> I was noticing nitrogen toxicity a couple of weeks after planting. Could this be causing all of the issues?
> 
> My concern is more about next run than this one, as this was kind of a test run. I don't want to be subjecting another round of plants to the same issues, but not sure how to address or fix the issue. I could obviously get a soil test at the end of the run, before replant, but I am a bit unsure as I already did a test before this run, and still ran into these issues with the test coming back pretty solid. View attachment 4890394


I'm the last person to ask but the yellow points and papery like brown appearance looks like further stage of what I had recently and think it was K deficiency. But in your case you have dark green there too so that like you said seems N excess. I don't recall if N is antagonistic to K or if it's something else that is but that could explain that.


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 29, 2021)

raggyb said:


> I'm the last person to ask but the yellow points and papery like brown appearance looks like further stage of what I had recently and think it was K deficiency. But in your case you have dark green there too so that like you said seems N excess. I don't recall if N is antagonistic to K or if it's something else that is but that could explain that.


I'm not exactly sure either, but when ive gotten N toxicity, the dark green never really left the leaves. They may have lightened a tad, but not much.


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## GrassBurner (Apr 29, 2021)

My first run in Coots mix I believe I was low on potassium. Maybe a possibility


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## raggyb (Apr 29, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I'm not exactly sure either, but when ive gotten N toxicity, the dark green never really left the leaves. They may have lightened a tad, but not much.


Yeah I just looked it up and high N can cause K deficiency.


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## Nwtexan (Apr 29, 2021)

raggyb said:


> Yeah I just looked it up and high N can cause K deficiency.


That could be what it was. I had high potassium as well in my test. I actually added nitrogen in the form of blood meal because the original test had nitrogen so low and potassium pretty high. Guess i need to do some more research<g


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 29, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> My soil mix was a Coots style mix that had some more of the dry amendments(based on some experienced members advice) It had the 1/3 mix of compost(bu's bio), aeration(perlite and pumice) and peat. I had all the rock dusts to the amounts per Coot's recipe. I originally did the 1/2C per CF of Neem, Karanja, Crab meal, and kelp meal, but ended up adding a bit more.
> 
> I used this recipe as my template
> 
> ...


I'm gonna be startng mine up here in the next couple weeks. I just bought the bas 3.0 to take the guesswork out.

Have you top dressed at all? Any Kashi? Any mulch?


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## Nwtexan (Apr 29, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I'm gonna be startng mine up here in the next couple weeks. I just bought the bas 3.0 to take the guesswork out.
> 
> Have you top dressed at all? Any Kashi? Any mulch?


The only top dressing i did was with some malted barley. I put a mulch cover on top and that is covered in plastic. I have some earthworms in as well


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 29, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> The only top dressing i did was with some malted barley. I put a mulch cover on top and that is covered in plastic. I have some earthworms in as well


Maybe add some chopped leaves to lower N?


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## DankTankerous (Apr 30, 2021)

Do I need to put some kind of filter over the screen to keep the soil out of the water? Soil definitely got into the water reservoir, I’m using the Earthbox junior


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## GrassBurner (Apr 30, 2021)

I added a piece of landscaping fabric. Air and roots can still penetrate, just not the soil  

Plants have shown no adverse effects, they're growing like mad. Just switched them to flower.


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## Nwtexan (Apr 30, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Maybe add some chopped leaves to lower N?


I'll test after this run. Hopefully the nitrogen will stabilize


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## DankTankerous (Apr 30, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I added a piece of landscaping fabric. Air and roots can still penetrate, just not the soil
> View attachment 4890988


well we shall see, I went ahead and did it. Not a ton of soil went in.


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## GrassBurner (Apr 30, 2021)

You got worms in your soil? I believe they were the soil moving culprits in my planters. Im guessing as they worked their way down, they went through the openings, and brought dirt with them.


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## myke (Apr 30, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> So I have a question for you all and need some advice. I am having a funky sulfur smell come from the new ones I just started.
> 
> The one w the cover on it was started this time last week. That one is rocking already. Probably will go into flower this weekend.
> 
> ...


Smell is from the dry fertilizer ,no worries.


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## DankTankerous (Apr 30, 2021)

Well here she is. Useful Seed’s Blue Dream (Santa Cruz cut) x Chocolate Diesel fem.

she’ll be 3 weeks old on Sunday (two days from now) soil is coots, 2nd cycle, re-amended and grew cover crops in it, only to break the soil up (roots instance) and put in the Earthbox Jr. It seemed like a great idea then, but the more I thought about it and understood more the less I was sure. Like crimson clover does not start fixing nitrogen and making root nodules for six weeks. Also the breaking down of the green material underneath the cover, would get gooey and maybe bad. I top dressed with gnarly barley from Build a Soil, grokashi and like a 3/4 of a gallon of homemade vermicompost and compost tea to water the seedling in.

as I fill the reservoir the soil bits come out. Should I use EM1, I have been seeing people say you don’t need it.


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## GrassBurner (Apr 30, 2021)

Tighten your seat belt and hold on, growth is about to go crazy


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## DankTankerous (Apr 30, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Tighten your seat belt and hold on, growth is about to go crazy


thank you dude. Yeah I’m incredibly excited. This is not my first grow, but still get butterflies.


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## GrassBurner (Apr 30, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Why not use concrete mesh?


I've got some Hog panel outside with 3"x3" openings. Wanted something I could place around the bottoms and train branches for now, that I didn't have to poke through my cover and insulation/moisture barrier. I've got a few trellis' I built, once they get tall enough I'll put them in there and help spread them out


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 30, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I've got some Hog panel outside with 3"x3" openings. Wanted something I could place around the bottoms and train branches for now, that I didn't have to poke through my cover and insulation/moisture barrier. I've got a few trellis' I built, once they get tall enough I'll put them in there and help spread them out


Ah... makes sense now. I keep forgetting about the covers. It's gonna take a lil getting used to.


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## ilovereggae (Apr 30, 2021)

myke said:


> Smell is from the dry fertilizer ,no worries.


thanks! I'm pretty sure it was the pinto bean compost I added. I let it dry out a little and I'm back in action. Plants are happy and thriving. Will update w photos later


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## ilovereggae (Apr 30, 2021)

here's some SIP action for your Friday night.

going to flower the 3 sips in first photo

(2 Glue Suede Shoes Bx / 1 Guava Shoreline + 1 Tangieland x Sour 78 / 2 Chile Verde)



these 2 are going to stay moms
(Chile Verde + BOG SourStrawberry)


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## raggyb (Apr 30, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> here's some SIP action for your Friday night.
> 
> going to flower the 3 sips in first photo
> 
> ...


they look all tucked in cozy and comfy like in their white linen beds. I see the manufactured caps are all plastic. I don't think my makeshift caps of landscape fabric are doing much because they could breath too much but that's ok. I got soil in fabric pots (breathable) with wicks sewn in so maybe that's not right either but whatever. Things grow pretty well anyhow.


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## myke (Apr 30, 2021)

Really goes to show how important watering is with organic,sips take care of that.My first organic attempt was in 5 g pots I think 5 plants not one of them turned out,droopy leaves no matter how little I watered.Now with the sips my soil moister meter says 9.9 every where in a 10g tote and plants are happy as hell.Go figure,over water just a tiny bit and all goes to hell in pots.

Sips are my future for sure,so easy and you can top water in some nutes to fix a N deficiency quickly.
Here's my Cali O in a 10g double stacked tote home made sip


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## GrassBurner (Apr 30, 2021)

Sweet setup!


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## GrassBurner (Apr 30, 2021)

I thought I was bad at watering. After I got the sips, I learned I was actually terrible


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## Hash Hound (May 1, 2021)

this is a Super Silver Haze at 4 weeks started 12/12 from seed in a 5g SIP/wick



and this is a Garlic Sherbet at 4 weeks (8 weeks veg) flowering 7g SIP/wick


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## DankTankerous (May 1, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I thought I was bad at watering. After I got the sips, I learned I was actually terrible


I always tell people watering is the hardest thing.


----------



## myke (May 1, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> I always tell people watering is the hardest thing.


Since sips keep the soil so wet I wonder if bottom watering a pot would be better.Should work,it wicks it up just the same.Just gotta know how much/often.


----------



## ilovereggae (May 1, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I thought I was bad at watering. After I got the sips, I learned I was actually terrible





myke said:


> Since sips keep the soil so wet I wonder if bottom watering a pot would be better.Should work,it wicks it up just the same.Just gotta know how much/often.


I've switched to bottom watering my solo cups now too. I don't understand how I didn't kill everything before.

Have been looking at capillary mats - both a DIY method or there are some pretty cool seedling kits that I think will work well too.


----------



## DankTankerous (May 1, 2021)

myke said:


> Since sips keep the soil so wet I wonder if bottom watering a pot would be better.Should work,it wicks it up just the same.Just gotta know how much/often.





ilovereggae said:


> I've switched to bottom watering my solo cups now too. I don't understand how I didn't kill everything before.
> 
> Have been looking at capillary mats - both a DIY method or there are some pretty cool seedling kits that I think will work well too.


I think y’all are really onto something.

Yeah I don’t keep plants in the solo cup for too long, because either I can’t get the right moisture level and or nutes run out. I do the 40% Peat 40% aeration 20% EWC. This time around I put a cup of coot’s on top of each. I can’t stand to see them look so bad and sad


----------



## GrassBurner (May 1, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> I think y’all are really onto something.
> 
> Yeah I don’t keep plants in the solo cup for too long, because either I can’t get the right moisture level and or nutes run out. I do the 40% Peat 40% aeration 20% EWC. This time around I put a cup of coot’s on top of each. I can’t stand to see them look so bad and sad


Yeah I might have murdered a couple seedlings due to bad conditions. Gonna see what kind of miracles these sips can work. They have brought back a plant that almost died in my dwc. I broke the tap root off and it never could get its footing, just weren't enough roots getting nutes from the water. Enough to barely stay alive. It's looking great after a few days in the sip


----------



## Hash Hound (May 1, 2021)

myke said:


> Since sips keep the soil so wet I wonder if bottom watering a pot would be better.Should work,it wicks it up just the same.Just gotta know how much/often.


a few grows back before I started using the SIP's I was watering half gallon on top and half to the bottom, it would be sucked up within half hour if not sooner. I'm scratchin my head wondering why I stopped.


----------



## myke (May 1, 2021)

From what Ive read the bottom roots are the "water" roots and top ones are "feeder" so it makes sense that over watering the top isnt good and explains why bottom watering works well ,aka SIP.
No real proof but its believable.


----------



## DankTankerous (May 1, 2021)

Folks using LED’s:

do y’all have cal-mag problems with SIP’s? If you do how do you fix it? I’m using coot’s soil recipe and last grow I didn’t have a problem with it, but I wasn’t using a SIP.


----------



## GrassBurner (May 1, 2021)

myke said:


> From what Ive read the bottom roots are the "water" roots and top ones are "feeder" so it makes sense that over watering the top isnt good and explains why bottom watering works well ,aka SIP.
> No real proof but its believable.


Makes a lot of sense as far as the success of a sip, it can have plain fresh water, or nutrient rich soil. And of course, that nice layer of oxygen


----------



## GrassBurner (May 1, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> Folks using LED’s:
> 
> do y’all have cal-mag problems with SIP’s? If you do how do you fix it? I’m using coot’s soil recipe and last grow I didn’t have a problem with it, but I wasn’t using a SIP.


I had a couple Dough-Lato's that seemed to want all the cal mag I could.givr them in flower. This go around I added some gypsum and Epsom into the soil when I mixed it.


----------



## myke (May 1, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> Folks using LED’s:
> 
> do y’all have cal-mag problems with SIP’s? If you do how do you fix it? I’m using coot’s soil recipe and last grow I didn’t have a problem with it, but I wasn’t using a SIP.


If you need it asap i dont see a problem with using calmag in a spray bottle and misting the surface.Myself I added dolomite lime when I built the soil.You can also spray leaves with epsom if your getting yellow between veins.Ive even seen dolo lime tea bubbled for a few hours.


----------



## DankTankerous (May 1, 2021)

myke said:


> If you need it asap i dont see a problem with using calmag in a spray bottle and misting the surface.Myself I added dolomite lime when I built the soil.You can also spray leaves with epsom if your getting yellow between veins.Ive even seen dolo lime tea bubbled for a few hours.


I think I should be fine. Coot’s mix had lots of Cal and I’ll be top dressing with homemade EWC castings. I have some root’s organic Cal-Mag top dress powder, thing that sucks about it is it’s really hydrophobic. Another thing is, is I top dress with malted barley and kashi which can bring the pH down.


----------



## DankTankerous (May 2, 2021)

Transplanted 48 hours ago and looking better. I do t have too much hope for the old leaves, but the new ones look great. I have a feeling it will take a 5-7 more days to adjust. There is already a larger “feeder” root coming out the top. I did put 2tbsn of Bio-Alive in a trench, I’m hoping that doesn’t upset the soil chemistry. The soil was already amended. For some reason I didn’t think it would come into play for another few weeks. Anyways we shall see what happens in the next few weeks. I think I’ll start a journal.

the gal isn’t looking to happy, but better.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 2, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> Transplanted 48 hours ago and looking better. I do t have too much hope for the old leaves, but the new ones look great. I have a feeling it will take a 5-7 more days to adjust. There is already a larger “feeder” root coming out the top. I did put 2tbsn of Bio-Alive in a trench, I’m hoping that doesn’t upset the soil chemistry. The soil was already amended. For some reason I didn’t think it would come into play for another few weeks. Anyways we shall see what happens in the next few weeks. I think I’ll start a journal.
> 
> the gal isn’t looking to happy, but better.
> 
> View attachment 4892852


Compost tea! Lol


----------



## xtsho (May 2, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I've switched to bottom watering my solo cups now too. I don't understand how I didn't kill everything before.
> 
> Have been looking at capillary mats - both a DIY method or there are some pretty cool seedling kits that I think will work well too.











Going Capillary on Cannabis - Greenhouse Product News


With many cannabis production operations in non-traditional spaces such as warehouses, cultural guidelines can be constantly in flux. Even in greenhouse operations, cannabis cultivation requires the careful attention and detail that all indoor growing crops require. For many cultivators...




gpnmag.com


----------



## DankTankerous (May 2, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Compost tea! Lol


I watered it in with compost tea


----------



## DankTankerous (May 2, 2021)

xtsho said:


> Going Capillary on Cannabis - Greenhouse Product News
> 
> 
> With many cannabis production operations in non-traditional spaces such as warehouses, cultural guidelines can be constantly in flux. Even in greenhouse operations, cannabis cultivation requires the careful attention and detail that all indoor growing crops require. For many cultivators...
> ...


Is that using synthetics though? Or is it purely water? ‘“When you water from the top, it creates pore channels in the soil. Since with capillary mats the nutrients are at the bottom within the mat, it wicks the nutrients from there up the medium as needed,” he explains.’ (Par 5 S1)


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 2, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> I watered it in with compost tea


Ok I just read it again.


----------



## xtsho (May 2, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> Is that using synthetics though? Or is it purely water? ‘“When you water from the top, it creates pore channels in the soil. Since with capillary mats the nutrients are at the bottom within the mat, it wicks the nutrients from there up the medium as needed,” he explains.’ (Par 5 S1)


Both perhaps? Feed-Water-Feed or maybe just a continuous low EC feed like when using blumats and coco. It would depend on the substrate.


----------



## myke (May 2, 2021)

Made a couple 27G sips for my tomatoes. I’ll put two cherries in ea. I suppose I’ll need extra lime in these?


----------



## Kindbud421 (May 2, 2021)

Built one from instructions online. this is a custom breeders gear Mephisto (chemdoggin x ripely og) x devil cream at 32 days old


----------



## Kindbud421 (May 2, 2021)

Kindbud421 said:


> Built one from instructions online. this is a custom breeders gear Mephisto (chemdoggin x ripely og) x devil cream at 32 days oldView attachment 4892975


----------



## Kindbud421 (May 2, 2021)

Kindbud421 said:


> View attachment 4893002View attachment 4893003View attachment 4893004View attachment 4893006View attachment 4893007View attachment 4893008View attachment 4893009View attachment 4893010View attachment 4893011View attachment 4893012


----------



## ilovereggae (May 2, 2021)

Weekly Flowering Update

F14 of first round. 

plus some new friends under another 150W fixture



Long Valley Royal Kush x Diesel


Tangieland x Sour 78



Did some light defoliation of lowers this week and took fans that were overlapping/ not getting good light. Did some more bending / bonsai of the tallest tops and manage to snap one off. RIP.

The new ones are Glue Suede Shoes BX ((Elvis x GG4) X Elvis). These were a little small to start in flower but going to roll the dice a little. The Elvis can get tall and am working in a short vertical height atm. Once they get bigger I will take some clones before week 3.


----------



## GrassBurner (May 3, 2021)

Top dressed the planters with Dr Earth Flower Girl (3-9-4) Looks like some good root action on the surface, and worms to boot! 


Did some more tying down, and some defoliation for airflow. Flipped them to flower Friday. Let the good times roll


----------



## myke (May 3, 2021)

Kindbud421 said:


> View attachment 4893013View attachment 4893016View attachment 4893017


You left the plant in the solo cup it appears,why?


----------



## Kindbud421 (May 4, 2021)

myke said:


> You left the plant in the solo cup it appears,why?


It’s a “instatransplant” cup. Two solos, one on inside has 2” slits cut out of the sides. Outer holds it together. Less transplant stress for an autoflower...


----------



## DankTankerous (May 4, 2021)

Just curious, do I need to have EM 1 in my reservoir? And should the reservoir always be full or should you let it get low?


----------



## GrassBurner (May 4, 2021)

I think the important thing is to not let the reservoir go dry. Not sure about the EM1, I would just run water in the reservoir, and top dress/water in anything else.


----------



## myke (May 4, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> Just curious, do I need to have EM 1 in my reservoir? And should the reservoir always be full or should you let it get low?


No. Don’t add anything to the res. I’ve been topping mine up ea day as they drink a lot.My tap water has chlorine so I add straight from the tap. In hopes it keeps things clean.


----------



## ilovereggae (May 4, 2021)

needs more CowMag lol. noticed this on one of the Tangieland Sour78 when I woke up this am. 




didn't have time to address it so tonight at lights on I did a little top water in of some ewc/kelp/coconut. got some nice roots going up top. notice on the sides especially where the dry nutes are.





will see how this tea does, I may need to top dress some more dry nutes I guess. these SIPs don't play.


----------



## GrassBurner (May 4, 2021)

Look at those roots!!


----------



## ilovereggae (May 5, 2021)

Kindbud421 said:


> It’s a “instatransplant” cup. Two solos, one on inside has 2” slits cut out of the sides. Outer holds it together. Less transplant stress for an autoflower...


can you show us example of how the cups work? been trying to figure this out myself. I think I understand what you are saying but pics would be sweet. I was thinking if the inner cup was clear it would make simple to check root growth too.


----------



## ilovereggae (May 5, 2021)

xtsho said:


> Going Capillary on Cannabis - Greenhouse Product News
> 
> 
> With many cannabis production operations in non-traditional spaces such as warehouses, cultural guidelines can be constantly in flux. Even in greenhouse operations, cannabis cultivation requires the careful attention and detail that all indoor growing crops require. For many cultivators...
> ...


peep this








Seedling Tray with Capillary Matting | Gardener's Supply


Make better use of your time with this water-wicking humidity tray for precious seedlings and plants. Capillary mat will keep soil moist for up to 2 weeks.




www.gardeners.com





think I'm gonna grab one and try it


----------



## Kindbud421 (May 5, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> can you show us example of how the cups work? been trying to figure this out myself. I think I understand what you are saying but pics would be sweet. I was thinking if the inner cup was clear it would make simple to check root growth too.


Never thought of a clear inner cup! Good idea! I’ll post pics of my cups later today!


----------



## Southernontariogrower (May 5, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> needs more CowMag lol. noticed this on one of the Tangieland Sour78 when I woke up this am.
> 
> View attachment 4894663
> 
> ...


Love that root grass


----------



## Hash Hound (May 5, 2021)

Garlic Sherbet sipping up almost a gallon a day 4.5 weeks




Super Silver Haze 5 weeks 12/12 from seed


----------



## raggyb (May 5, 2021)

Kindbud421 said:


> View attachment 4893002View attachment 4893003View attachment 4893004View attachment 4893006View attachment 4893007View attachment 4893008View attachment 4893009View attachment 4893010View attachment 4893011View attachment 4893012


love the cork and repurpose of what looks like a vacuum cleaner tube


----------



## Kindbud421 (May 5, 2021)

raggyb said:


> love the cork and repurpose of what looks like a vacuum cleaner tube


Yup, if I can make it I won’t buy it... but sometimes you gotta. All components were sourced at the home. No cost, except for time...


----------



## Kindbud421 (May 6, 2021)

Kindbud421 said:


> Never thought of a clear inner cup! Good idea! I’ll post pics of my cups later today!


Pics of cups as promised. Slits allow roots to grow unrestricted (for the most part) . Remove outer cup when transplanting and plant inner cup into final pot.


----------



## DankTankerous (May 6, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> Weekly Flowering Update
> 
> F14 of first round.
> 
> ...


where did you get your Long Valley Royal Kush 
x Diesel?


----------



## ilovereggae (May 6, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> where did you get your Long Valley Royal Kush
> x Diesel?


one of my best friends has been hoarding beans and elite cuts for 30 yrs. he is an og and friends w a lot of the ppl in industry. since I'm growing for my son and some other ppl w medical issues, he keeps me laced with oldies but goodies as well as some S1s and crosses he makes. 

These were my 4/20 suprise. Just popped some of the 2 packs up top  

got some more cool stuff on the way too.


----------



## GrassBurner (May 7, 2021)

Cruising right along


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 8, 2021)

myke said:


> Harvested my first sip today. Roots were all from the wick aka net pot. No real smell from them. Barely any dirt in the bottom tote. Not sure what I’ll do with the dirt. I’ll most likely shred it apart remove as much of the roots and amend let cook again. View attachment 4897303View attachment 4897304View attachment 4897305


Did you use any kind of fabric or screen at the bottom?


----------



## myke (May 8, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Did you use any kind of fabric or screen at the bottom?


No,the pic is what you see.Wick was packed with same dirt.You can see the roots that were air pruned by the 60 or so 1/4"holes.Maybe a tablespoon of dirt in the bottom tote,10 gallon.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 8, 2021)

myke said:


> No,the pic is what you see.Wick was packed with same dirt.You can see the roots that were air pruned by the 60 or so 1/4"holes.Maybe a tablespoon of dirt in the bottom tote,10 gallon.


The roots look killer man!


----------



## ilovereggae (May 8, 2021)

myke said:


> Harvested my first sip today. Roots were all from the wick aka net pot. No real smell from them. Barely any dirt in the bottom tote. Not sure what I’ll do with the dirt. I’ll most likely shred it apart remove as much of the roots and amend let cook again. View attachment 4897303View attachment 4897304View attachment 4897305


SIP Bricks. Just save up a bunch more and build a house with it. Good grief that thing looks solid. I wonder if there's any nutes or minerals even left in there lol


----------



## myke (May 8, 2021)

So a good mod would be to drill more holes around the top part of my net pot.Allow more water roots through.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 8, 2021)

Damn, so the roots mostly grow thru the wick?


----------



## myke (May 8, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Damn, so the roots mostly grow thru the wick?


I guess. First for me. Looks like a hydro plant as I’ve grown plenty of those. So most all of those roots would spend most of the day in the water. I assume most would float.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 8, 2021)

myke said:


> I guess. First for me. Looks like a hydro plant as I’ve grown plenty of those. So most all of those roots would spend most of the day in the water. I assume most would float.


I've done hydro too and your right, it looks very similar. I have an earthbox im about to start but I'm gonna try no till in it, so I won't get to see the roots. Interesting to get to see how that works though. Thanks for posting those pics!


----------



## myke (May 8, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I've done hydro too and your right, it looks very similar. I have an earthbox im about to start but I'm gonna try no till in it, so I won't get to see the roots. Interesting to get to see how that works though. Thanks for posting those pics!


Youll have to clean out the water roots after ea grow for no till.Youll also need one great big sip lol.Easier to just re amend.Still get the benefits of re using.Ill be reusing this dirt after this next grow so over time Ill have 40 gallon in use and 40 cooking.Should get better and better.


----------



## ilovereggae (May 9, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I've done hydro too and your right, it looks very similar. I have an earthbox im about to start but I'm gonna try no till in it, so I won't get to see the roots. Interesting to get to see how that works though. Thanks for posting those pics!





myke said:


> Youll have to clean out the water roots after ea grow for no till.Youll also need one great big sip lol.Easier to just re amend.Still get the benefits of re using.Ill be reusing this dirt after this next grow so over time Ill have 40 gallon in use and 40 cooking.Should get better and better.


I would think the Growbox would work better for notill since you could lift the 2 half apart and clean the res and chop away any feeder roots. that way the soil could remain undisturbed. Earthbox seems better for LOS.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 9, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I would think the Growbox would work better for notill since you could lift the 2 half apart and clean the res and chop away any feeder roots. that way the soil could remain undisturbed. Earthbox seems better for LOS.


Dude at bas has a video series where he's doing no till in an earth box. That's where I got the idea. Seems to work pretty good. He just leaves the old roots in there I guess.


----------



## Hash Hound (May 9, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Dude at bas


who and where?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 9, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> who and where?


Lol the owner of build a soil has a video series on youtube where he shows growing in a few different methods and one of them is no till in an earth box.


----------



## Chunky Stool (May 9, 2021)

myke said:


> Youll have to clean out the water roots after ea grow for no till.Youll also need one great big sip lol.Easier to just re amend.Still get the benefits of re using.Ill be reusing this dirt after this next grow so over time Ill have 40 gallon in use and 40 cooking.Should get better and better.


I've found that no till works best with larger pots, 15 gallon and up. 
Anything smaller gets dumped on the recycle pile, roots and all. 
They break down quickly and make great humus.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 9, 2021)

Chunky Stool said:


> I've found that no till works best with larger pots, 15 gallon and up.
> Anything smaller gets dumped on the recycle pile, roots and all.
> They break down quickly and make great humus.


Yea, ideally I'd like a 3x3 bed, but my space doesn't allow for that. You gotta make the best with what you have.


----------



## ilovereggae (May 10, 2021)

F28 for the ones in back. F10 for ones up front.

The bigger ones were pretty much starving so I topped them off w a gallon of soil mixed w ewc and dry nutes and then topped that off w some bokashi.


Veg/mom tent sips turning into a jungle. Took the tops off the Chile Verde plants as clones, also took clones off of SourStrawberry earlier in the week.



more veg tent action



Last but not least I drove 3 hrs to Palm Springs on Saturday and got myself 3 of the Darkheart - White Runtz


----------



## DankTankerous (May 10, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Dude at bas has a video series where he's doing no till in an earth box. That's where I got the idea. Seems to work pretty good. He just leaves the old roots in there I guess.


does he have like an organized series of those videos? I know their on his IG, but they’re random and too long


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 10, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> does he have like an organized series of those videos? I know their on his IG, but they’re random and too long


Yea he's doing it in a series, but he's got a couple different styles going on a 10x10, so he touches on each, every episode.


----------



## DankTankerous (May 10, 2021)

How often to you top dress with bokashi?


----------



## ilovereggae (May 10, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> How often to you top dress with bokashi?


I added some when I first planted them just to make sure my soil was good to go. it had been sitting in totes for a few months. I did this time when I top dressed hoping it would help break down the dry nutes I mixed into the soil a little. not sure if my calculations are correct but so far so good.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 11, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> How often to you top dress with bokashi?


I add Kashi to every top dress. Helps break shit down faster.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 11, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I added some when I first planted them just to make sure my soil was good to go. it had been sitting in totes for a few months. I did this time when I top dressed hoping it would help break down the dry nutes I mixed into the soil a little. not sure if my calculations are correct but so far so good.


I add it every top dress. Helps give your soil fungal dominance, and your correct. It helps break down faster.


----------



## ilovereggae (May 11, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I add it every top dress. Helps give your soil fungal dominance, and your correct. It helps break down faster.


it's so cool lifting the covers and seeing a fuzzy blanket covering the soil. last night started see roots creep up on the edges off the top dress layer so looking good.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 11, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> it's so cool lifting the covers and seeing a fuzzy blanket covering the soil. last night started see roots creep up on the edges off the top dress layer so looking good.


Sounds like everything is going good. You're in flower right now, no?


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (May 12, 2021)

Pretty disappointed in earthbox atm, my first run with them and one has already cracked in the water rez of course, so now I'm going to buy some of that stupid Billy Mayes water proof tape... by comparison the inn tainers I made myself are on probably run 5 or 6 with 0 issues... I was really hoping for more from the fabled earthbox... I guess I won't be buying more but instead making more inn tainers


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 12, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Pretty disappointed in earthbox atm, my first run with them and one has already cracked in the water rez of course, so now I'm going to buy some of that stupid Billy Mayes water proof tape... by comparison the inn tainers I made myself are on probably run 5 or 6 with 0 issues... I was really hoping for more from the fabled earthbox... I guess I won't be buying more but instead making more inn tainers


That sucks man. I'm hoping mine holds up. I'll prolly such to the inntainers once I get this down a lil more.


----------



## magnetik (May 12, 2021)

Arent earthboxes basically small versions of the "city pickers" available at lowes/hd? If so I've had them outside with other plants for 3 seasons already and no issues with falling apart. Think I caught them on sale for under $20. I also have Grobucket inserts I used a couple seasons ago... the buckets actually ended up falling apart but inserts worked well. Thinking of running one of the two in my tent next cycle as a test.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (May 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> That sucks man. I'm hoping mine holds up. I'll prolly such to the inntainers once I get this down a lil more.


Yeah its pretty shitty I had heard such good things I went ahead and bought 6 of them. Now I am regretting not just getting one to try. Thought I had finally found some thing that beat the "hype just trying to sell you some bullshit" game that is everywhere in this hobby. Sadly not this time. Live and learn... over and over again! Lololol


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 12, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yeah its pretty shitty I had heard such good things I went ahead and bought 6 of them. Now I am regretting not just getting one to try. Thought I had finally found some thing that beat the "hype just trying to sell you some bullshit" game that is everywhere in this hobby. Sadly not this time. Live and learn... over and over again! Lololol


Well I only got 1 basically for the same reason, that and just wanting to learn it first. I still feel for no till, you should have a larger volume of soil. I figure if I can learn it in the earth box with a smaller volume, I should be able to make an inntainer work real well. Lol


----------



## GrassBurner (May 12, 2021)

I'd contact Earthbox, I bet they'll replace it, especially since you bought 6.


----------



## DankTankerous (May 14, 2021)

Hey folks?

It’s hard to believe this plant will be 5 weeks old tomorrow. It’s been topped once and lower branches on the nodes have been pruned. On Monday it will be two weeks that it’s been in the Earthbox. It is just exploding. These pictures do not do the plant justice, it is way bigger than it appears. I hope it does not outgrow the box, then again it would give me reason to buy a grow tent.

Seeds: Useful Seeds

Strain: Blue Dream (Santa Cruz Cut) x Chocolate Diesel


----------



## GrassBurner (May 14, 2021)

Once they get acclimated to the sips, there is no stopping them


----------



## DankTankerous (May 14, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Once they get acclimated to the sips, there is no stopping them


oh they’re acclimated. I do believe the roots have hit the water. I’m refilling the reservoir everyday with 8-10 Oz of water. The stem growth is incredible as well as the node growth.The stem is getting noticeably wider as the days go by. I did get a couple of burnt tips, but other than that it’s been incredible easy. Going forward, SIP’s will be the way to go. I have had 5 or 7 grows under my best, but this is by far the most vigorous growth I have seen. It could be the strain and or great white myco’s that used before transplanting.


----------



## GrassBurner (May 14, 2021)

Tent was turning into a real sausage party, and that's not how I roll  Chopped 2 Clusterfucks, 1 Cantaloupe Haze, 1 PHK x Durban, and 1 Sweet Thang.

Keeping a couple branches off the Sweet Thang and PHK x Durban to make some seeds.


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## Ulf (May 18, 2021)

I'm sorry if this has been asked...

I understand how perlite helps with drainage, but is it really necessary in a SIP?

Edit: I am using an organic, homemade peat based soil.


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## GrassBurner (May 18, 2021)

I'd say proper aeration is more important in a sip. The soil stays pretty moist, anything to help keep oxygen in there should be a benefit, to an extent.


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## bum (May 18, 2021)

Ulf said:


> I'm sorry if this has been asked...
> 
> I understand how perlite helps with drainage, but is it really necessary in a SIP?
> 
> Edit: I am using an organic, homemade peat based soil.


At the bottom? No, just use the soil mix but pack it tightly around the irrigation. Might be best to pack it wet.


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## Ulf (May 20, 2021)

bum said:


> At the bottom? No, just use the soil mix but pack it tightly around the irrigation. Might be best to pack it wet.


That's how I do it. I've been adding it at 1/3 of my mix, but was wondering if it was necessary since I'm not watering from the top during a stoner moment.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 20, 2021)

bum said:


> At the bottom? No, just use the soil mix but pack it tightly around the irrigation. Might be best to pack it wet.


I always pack my wicks with ONLY pure peat moss. But that's just me but personally I think it really helps with even wicking! I am hesitant to show many pics of this grow because it going to be an insane yield.... but here are my 12 sips with mainlined to 8 tops... 5 x 10 room... 2 5x5 cxb3590s frames from rapid led... about a month left.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 20, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I always pack my wicks with ONLY pure peat moss. But that's just me but personally I think it really helps with even wicking! I am hesitant to show many pics of this grow because it going to be an insane yield.... but here are my 12 sips with mainlined to 8 tops... 5 x 10 room... 2 5x5 cxb3590s frames from rapid led... about a month left.


If I can keep my humidity in check for the next 30 days and fucking get rid of these damn spider mites on my one plant I'm going to end up with some insane shit lol


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## myke (May 20, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> If I can keep my humidity in check for the next 30 days and fucking get rid of these damn spider mites on my one plant I'm going to end up with some insane shit lol


You could probably remove about 1000 leaves lol. That should help. Looks good.


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## insomnia65 (May 20, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I always pack my wicks with ONLY pure peat moss. But that's just me but personally I think it really helps with even wicking! I am hesitant to show many pics of this grow because it going to be an insane yield.... but here are my 12 sips with mainlined to 8 tops... 5 x 10 room... 2 5x5 cxb3590s frames from rapid led... about a month left.


How do you get that green structure?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 20, 2021)

myke said:


> You could probably remove about 1000 leaves lol. That should help. Looks good.


Dude I have already removed about TEN thousand hahaha they are just super cropped to the tops now.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 20, 2021)

insomnia65 said:


> How do you get that green structure?


Do you mean the branching structure?


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## insomnia65 (May 20, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Do you mean the branching structure?


Yes


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 20, 2021)

myke said:


> You could probably remove about 1000 leaves lol. That should help. Looks good.


But yes that was my initial problem for sure... that and I have at least 2 too many plants in there.. at least lol... this was a test to see how far I can push this room..the answer? Not this far lol hopefully i can make it through. I have thought about just ditching the one plant that is being a pain in the ass and saying fuck it at least then I won't risk it spreading.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 20, 2021)

insomnia65 said:


> Yes


It's a tech called "mainlining" it's a combo of topping and LST developed I believe by sub cool himself back in the day. Let me find the main thread for you...


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 20, 2021)

insomnia65 said:


> Yes








The Main-Lining Thread


I am getting a lot of requests to put a formal "main-lining" thread together to make it easier for ya'll to access, and reference....so here goes...... "Main-Lining" definition. a form of training and managing canopy for cannabis.....to build a "hub" off of a single node creating a...



www.rollitup.org


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## insomnia65 (May 20, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> The Main-Lining Thread
> 
> 
> I am getting a lot of requests to put a formal "main-lining" thread together to make it easier for ya'll to access, and reference....so here goes...... "Main-Lining" definition. a form of training and managing canopy for cannabis.....to build a "hub" off of a single node creating a...
> ...


I meant the green wire.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 20, 2021)

insomnia65 said:


> I meant the green wire.


Aaah gotcha they are just expensive tomato cages from a big box store.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 21, 2021)

So I decided to ditch the main spider mites affected plant... installed my portable AC in its place and will be spraying nightly with water and iso mix. Fingers crossed... I guess I might also look at taking off large fan leaves


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## Kayaganja (May 21, 2021)

I don’t know what happened there pics x100 , trying to edit ,


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 21, 2021)

Ugh...whoever originally installed the electric in my house.... I have like 30 breakers all filled... but it seems like everything in my house is on like 4 lol... I need to figure out how to determine what is drawing what power wise. My ac does not like being on a circuit with the light. Damn it I thought i had this solved for now...


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## Kayaganja (May 21, 2021)

Kayaganja said:


> I don’t know what happened there pics x100 , trying to edit ,


I got a growbox awhile back , cooked my own soil since I can’t find most of the stuff guy & dolls talk about putting in ones soil I can’t get so I did my own eye hand bucket way of measuring, so don’t start with how much did you put . Anyway thins is my first sip , only thing that I add should be EM1 , will try update weekly here is first week in sip bins, so I couldn’t just take a few pics off took the post down and will try put them up again one by one ,


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## Kayaganja (May 22, 2021)

So my soil is made up like this 
fish meal, 
peat, 
Horse poo
Cow poo , 
chicken poo, 
Blood meal
Bone meal
Dolomite
Oyster shells perlite
Alfalfa 
Bokashi compost and Bokashi bran in soil 
Em1
EWC
Kokos
Seaweed
I just use liter mugs and Bucket when mixing, ended up with one ton (1000kgs) of soil all mixed down in this garbage bin 
I cut a garbage bin in half to make a sip system for 6-8 plants No til , will keep you updated when I start working on it .


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## lazypothead420 (May 23, 2021)

Would I be able to add perlite where this says to add soil and just put my fabric pots on top of the perlite? https://www.agardenpatch.com/


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## sudshead (May 24, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> So, almost commited to this direction for next grow. My soil is ready and I've got the containers picked.
> I'm gonna stack 2 of those rubbermaid containers, and have 2 units side by side in my flower space.
> Hoping to have a decent reservoir, so thinking about using 6" PVC for the base.
> 
> ...


I go with 1 gallon nursery pots - can get them free at a lot of places and drill holes plus they are strong. I just made 3 outdoor kiddy pool sips with 40 gallon fabric pots on top - used 5 gallon nursery pots as the sips


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## sudshead (May 24, 2021)

Here is a pic of my 3 kiddie pools with 5 gallon nursery pots that will hold wick mixture. Concrete wire on top. I cut the concrete wire at the pot opening and fold the metal down. Then put the 40 gallon fabric pots on top and cut an X in the middle and fold fabric into the nursery pot then fill with wick mix (50/50 peat and soil). Fill the kiddie pool to the top with water and its about 2 inches of air space. Cutout some round insulating foil that is silver on one side and white on the other and it keeps it nice and moist underneath and bokashi kicking in (been one day)


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## myke (May 24, 2021)

Yeah anything plastic can be used as a wick. One gallon pot just drill a hundred holes in it. Yes you want wick just touching bottom with weight of soil pushing down. 
really not anything new. Sips been around a long time. Some just use drainage pipe in the bottom of huge beds. Key is the overflow hole. Can’t let soil sit in water.


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## sudshead (May 24, 2021)

myke said:


> Yeah anything plastic can be used as a wick. One gallon pot just drill a hundred holes in it. Yes you want wick just touching bottom with weight of soil pushing down.
> really not anything new. Sips been around a long time. Some just use drainage pipe in the bottom of huge beds. Key is the overflow hole. Can’t let soil sit in water.


yep -- the kiddie pools will just overflow on the top so can never have water touch the fabric pot. Will put some plants in around june 10th. Be interesting to see if they make it, neighbor came over and threatened to call the sheriff.Never had problems before but now they want to do an airbnb and all of a sudden dont like my plants


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## myke (May 24, 2021)

sudshead said:


> yep -- the kiddie pools will just overflow on the top so can never have water touch the fabric pot. Will put some plants in around june 10th. Be interesting to see if they make it, neighbor came over and threatened to call the sheriff.Never had problems before but now they want to do an airbnb and all of a sudden dont like my plants


Bummer about neighbours,is there a hole in fabric for wick?Or no and roots will find there way?


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## sudshead (May 24, 2021)

myke said:


> Bummer about neighbours,is there a hole in fabric for wick?Or no and roots will find there way?


I cut an X in the bottom center of the fabic and folded it into the nursery pot then put the wick mixture in so yes essentially a hole the size of the 5 gallon wick


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## DankTankerous (May 26, 2021)

Here’s mine at almost 7 weeks. It’s safe to say I need to top dress her. She’s drinking over a liter of water a day

Useful Seeds Blue Dream (SC cut) x Chocolate Diesel)


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## DankTankerous (May 26, 2021)

Have y’all ever had your plants “outgrow” the soil in your sip’s to a point where it’s depleted? What did you do?

I’m pretty sure that is what’s happening to mine. So, I top dressed 1/2 gal of fresh worm castings along with, 1 tbsn of Bio Alive, malted barley seed, grokashi, and Roots Organic Cal Mag. Then I sprayed it with Fish amino acid solution to set it in. I think tomorrow I’m going to top dress with neem meal, I don’t think the tablespoon of bioalive was enough. I thought about just stacking more of the coot’s mix on top, build holding walls to put more soil in.

what do y’all think?

Btw the plant is only 6 weeks and 3 days. It’s an absolute Monster. My last post has the picture taken last night.


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## GrassBurner (May 26, 2021)

For sure!!! These sips give an ideal environment for plants to thrive, and they get huuungry. I just top dressed a second time with Dr Earth Flowergirl @ 4tbsp per plant. If you started with only 1 plant, it might even want more. 
I put 4 plants per sip, then thin out the males. But what I think is happening, is during veg when the plants are building the root system, there is only so much room each plant gets. And by the time I switch to flower and cull the males, the plant is slowing down building its root system. So even though I only have 1 or 2 plants in during flower, they're root system isn't gonna fill out the planter. If you only have 1 plant, and the roots fill the whole sip during veg, it's gonna be able to take in a lot of nutrients, and it will be a monster. Just my theory.


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## ilovereggae (May 26, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> Have y’all ever had your plants “outgrow” the soil in your sip’s to a point where it’s depleted? What did you do?
> 
> I’m pretty sure that is what’s happening to mine. So, I top dressed 1/2 gal of fresh worm castings along with, 1 tbsn of Bio Alive, malted barley seed, grokashi, and Roots Organic Cal Mag. Then I sprayed it with Fish amino acid solution to set it in. I think tomorrow I’m going to top dress with neem meal, I don’t think the tablespoon of bioalive was enough. I thought about just stacking more of the coot’s mix on top, build holding walls to put more soil in.
> 
> ...


I'm dealing with a bit of this myself. I put 2 plants to a eatthbox Jr and flowered at 12" tall which is about where I would go with 2 gal pots. I figure since each Jr hold about 4 gallons of soil it would work great. wrong. they grow so fast in the sips the soil was done by week 3 of flower. I had to top them off w another gallon of soil + ewc, mixed in more dry DTE vegan mix and topped off w bokashi. am now feeding them buildabloom thru the res. I think I can get thru flower this way but it ain't my prettiest crop that's for sure. 

I was using ammended soil that I've run a couple times before. Going to have to go with 1/3 ewc and add some pumice I think to make this work with what I have left for my next round. I also think once I've used this all up I'm going to toss it and use fresh soil every run. might still have to cheat and use the buildabloom anyway.

"my plants grow too fast"... what a problem to have


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## myke (May 27, 2021)

If you go by what the container growers say its 7 gallons minimum per plant.Ive found 5 gallons of soil lasts about 4-5 weeks without feeding.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 27, 2021)

An earthbox is 2 cubic feet which amounts to about 15 gallons of soil. Unless you are like me ans mound the crap out of the top I might have 18 ish or more in there.


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## ilovereggae (May 27, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> An earthbox is 2 cubic feet which amounts to about 15 gallons of soil. Unless you are like me ans mound the crap out of the top I might have 18 ish or more in there.


you are right, when I first did my math I based it off what their website says - that the Jr can hold 1 cu ft of soil or @ 7.5 gal. Maybe my guesstimates of how much soil is in each one is wrong but I dont think it holds more than 4 gallons of soil unless maybe I pack it super tight and tamp the soil down? i do this to the soil that is in the wick but I just filled up the rest like normal. the first ones I did i was able to add another gallon of soil but would be hard to get any more in there now and get the covers to still fit. have been filling new ones up as much as possible now.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 27, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> you are right, when I first did my math I based it off what their website says - that the Jr can hold 1 cu ft of soil or @ 7.5 gal. Maybe my guesstimates of how much soil is in each one is wrong but I dont think it holds more than 4 gallons of soil unless maybe I pack it super tight and tamp the soil down? i do this to the soil that is in the wick but I just filled up the rest like normal. the first ones I did i was able to add another gallon of soil but would be hard to get any more in there now and get the covers to still fit. have been filling new ones up as much as possible now.


Huh I have never used the Jr but I'm sure those volumes are approx. For each persons soil depending on how dense your mix is also. But you are right not to be packing it in there for sure. The wicks you do want to pack down. I use just peat moss in all my wicks personally.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 27, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> you are right, when I first did my math I based it off what their website says - that the Jr can hold 1 cu ft of soil or @ 7.5 gal. Maybe my guesstimates of how much soil is in each one is wrong but I dont think it holds more than 4 gallons of soil unless maybe I pack it super tight and tamp the soil down? i do this to the soil that is in the wick but I just filled up the rest like normal. the first ones I did i was able to add another gallon of soil but would be hard to get any more in there now and get the covers to still fit. have been filling new ones up as much as possible now.


But ime the earthbox estimation is pretty spot on... I am running 12 atm.. all homemade organic soil yeah that was a lot of shoveling hahahah


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## DankTankerous (May 27, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I'm dealing with a bit of this myself. I put 2 plants to a eatthbox Jr and flowered at 12" tall which is about where I would go with 2 gal pots. I figure since each Jr hold about 4 gallons of soil it would work great. wrong. they grow so fast in the sips the soil was done by week 3 of flower. I had to top them off w another gallon of soil + ewc, mixed in more dry DTE vegan mix and topped off w bokashi. am now feeding them buildabloom thru the res. I think I can get thru flower this way but it ain't my prettiest crop that's for sure.
> 
> I was using ammended soil that I've run a couple times before. Going to have to go with 1/3 ewc and add some pumice I think to make this work with what I have left for my next round. I also think once I've used this all up I'm going to toss it and use fresh soil every run. might still have to cheat and use the buildabloom anyway.
> 
> ...


You’re plants look great to me. How are you feeding your plant through the res?

I’m also using recycled and re-amended soil, I just toss the roots in my worm bin and give more aeration and worm castings. I’m going to upgrade next time and either get the full sized Earthbox or make my own. I still have like a gal or two of the coot’s mix but it looks flowering tea’s once a week or every other. I also have a bunch of homemade worm castings so it should be good

I foliar fed it with Fish Amino Acid and that did the trick. Leavings were green and praying this morning


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## ilovereggae (May 27, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> You’re plants look great to me. How are you feeding your plant through the res?
> 
> I’m also using recycled and re-amended soil, I just toss the roots in my worm bin and give more aeration and worm castings. I’m going to upgrade next time and either get the full sized Earthbox or make my own. I still have like a gal or two of the coot’s mix but it looks flowering tea’s once a week or every other. I also have a bunch of homemade worm castings so it should be good
> 
> I foliar fed it with Fish Amino Acid and that did the trick. Leavings were green and praying this morning


thanks! they are going ok just the leaves are looking a little light compared to the first run in this soil in plastic grow bags.. this was at about same time frame 5 or 6sh weeks I think.





I'm all in on the Jr's I bought a bunch and am determined to make them work. I think I just need more ewc to start with in my mix.

bas actually suggested the idea of feeding them thru the res, once they have good feeder roots.

what I've done 2x now is let the res get to just about dry and then mix 1/2 tsp of the buildabloom, 1 tsp of coconut powder, and 2 tsp of kelp meal "juice" (I keep a mason jar in fridge of kelp meal blended w water). mix it up w 1 gal of water and just fed thru the pvc tube. I figure they will drink that to bone dry in 48 hrs so there's nothing left to really get funky or let algae blossom. then run plain water.


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## natureboygrower (May 27, 2021)

sudshead said:


> yep -- the kiddie pools will just overflow on the top so can never have water touch the fabric pot. Will put some plants in around june 10th. Be interesting to see if they make it, neighbor came over and threatened to call the sheriff.Never had problems before but now they want to do an airbnb and all of a sudden dont like my plants


Sorry for this, but what a fucking asshole your neighbor is. He doesn't mind possibly intruding on your peace of mind by having randos/complete strangers stay next door to you every week, but he actually had the balls to complain about your plants bothering his guests? Think I'd be anonymously checking the town/permitting/codes to make sure he had all his papers in order to run an airbnb...

I tried amending my soil once and running another cycle but I didnt like the results either. I have such a small set up (2 EBs) mixing new soil each run is not a problem.


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## ilovereggae (May 27, 2021)

natureboygrower said:


> I tried amending my soil once and running another cycle but I didnt like the results either. I have such a small set up (2 EBs) mixing new soil each run is not a problem.


I really wanna embrace LOS and be able recycle my materials but it seems hard to make work in such small containers. also hard to figure out how to dial in a grow when the inputs are changing slightly each time. I agree just mixing up a fresh batch each time is more ideal bc u can have a consistent start and then be able to tweak it a little each run.


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## natureboygrower (May 27, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I really wanna embrace LOS and be able recycle my materials but it seems hard to make work in such small containers. also hard to figure out how to dial in a grow when the inputs are changing slightly each time. I agree just mixing up a fresh batch each time is more ideal bc u can have a consistent start and then be able to tweak it a little each run.


I feel you on wanting to recycle, i do too. I also want a trouble free grow, that's really why I love SIPS so much lol. It seems almost impossible to figure out what the soil is lacking after a run, imo. 

I recycle my spent soil in my compost pile which takes the sting away a little.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 27, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I really wanna embrace LOS and be able recycle my materials but it seems hard to make work in such small containers. also hard to figure out how to dial in a grow when the inputs are changing slightly each time. I agree just mixing up a fresh batch each time is more ideal bc u can have a consistent start and then be able to tweak it a little each run.


I have almost 200 gallons of soil in my sips. No way I'm throwing all that out and starting over. Re amending is for sure the way to go for me. I will do a soil test after this run to see what I need to re amend with, but most likely I will just give it a blend of my original nutrient regimine.


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## natureboygrower (May 27, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I have almost 200 gallons of soil in my sips. No way I'm throwing all that out and starting over. Re amending is for sure the way to go for me. I will do a soil test after this run to see what I need to re amend with, but most likely I will just give it a blend of my original nutrient regimine.


Damn man, how many containers are you running? 

My only complaint about sips are hollow stems. Be nice to grab some cuts before flowering. Tbh, I've never tried because i figured theyd just turn to mush .


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 27, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I'm dealing with a bit of this myself. I put 2 plants to a eatthbox Jr and flowered at 12" tall which is about where I would go with 2 gal pots. I figure since each Jr hold about 4 gallons of soil it would work great. wrong. they grow so fast in the sips the soil was done by week 3 of flower. I had to top them off w another gallon of soil + ewc, mixed in more dry DTE vegan mix and topped off w bokashi. am now feeding them buildabloom thru the res. I think I can get thru flower this way but it ain't my prettiest crop that's for sure.
> 
> I was using ammended soil that I've run a couple times before. Going to have to go with 1/3 ewc and add some pumice I think to make this work with what I have left for my next round. I also think once I've used this all up I'm going to toss it and use fresh soil every run. might still have to cheat and use the buildabloom anyway.
> 
> ...


After harvest, throw some bas craft blend on and start a cover crop. Let the crop grow in, chop the crop, and your ready to go


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 27, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> After harvest, throw some bas craft blend on and start a cover crop. Let the crop grow in, chop the crop, and your ready to go


Yeeeeep. I have been doing this long before build a soil was a thing. It is really cool that they are out there now though validating it!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 27, 2021)

natureboygrower said:


> Damn man, how many containers are you running?
> 
> My only complaint about sips are hollow stems. Be nice to grab some cuts before flowering. Tbh, I've never tried because i figured theyd just turn to mush .


12 full size SIPS under 24 cxb3590s in approx a 10 x 5. They are all mainlined to have 8 lolipops... its a little nuts in there right now hahahaha. I took clones before I moved them to their final sip home. I vegged in 3 gallon fabric pots ... which I might change down the line. They are a lot of work.


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## ilovereggae (May 27, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> After harvest, throw some bas craft blend on and start a cover crop. Let the crop grow in, chop the crop, and your ready to go


literally was my plan, emailed them 2 weeks ago asking if they had considered a vegan version of craft blend. trying to stick with this for various reasons. the soil I started w was the Light Mix and as shown above first round they did amazing. I think I did an ewc "tea" once. rest was all water entire grow. still smoking that herb.

their answer was I would need to mix it myself, and find some replacements items. definitely considering it but still deciding east my next move is (literally might be moving soon and not sure I want to move dirt so I might just make do with what I have now and start fresh once I'm in a new space).


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## Hollatchaboy (May 27, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yeeeeep. I have been doing this long before build a soil was a thing. It is really cool that they are out there now though validating it!


Yea I know it's nothing new, and it is kinda cool that they're getting the method out there. I just buy their products for the simplicity. There's no guesswork or labor mixing soils.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 27, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea I know it's nothing new, and it is kinda cool that they're getting the method out there. I just buy their products for the simplicity. There's no guesswork or labor mixing soils.


I was looking at buying some but with the lead time they have right now I mid as well continue to do what I am doing. Trying to go more perpetual maybe only do 6 sips at a time in flower. And have the next 6 ready to go.


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## Hollatchaboy (May 27, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> literally was my plan, emailed them 2 weeks ago asking if they had considered a vegan version of craft blend. trying to stick with this for various reasons. the soil I started w was the Light Mix and as shown above first round they did amazing. I think I did an ewc "tea" once. rest was all water entire grow. still smoking that herb.
> 
> their answer was I would need to mix it myself, and find some replacements items. definitely considering it but still deciding east my next move is (literally might be moving soon and not sure I want to move dirt so I might just make do with what I have now and start fresh once I'm in a new space).


 Yea, you could easily source everything and make your own blend.


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## Hollatchaboy (May 27, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I was looking at buying some but with the lead time they have right now I mid as well continue to do what I am doing. Trying to go more perpetual maybe only do 6 sips at a time in flower. And have the next 6 ready to go.


The lead time they have right now sucks, but it is growing season. Lol
I've only got 1 sip right now, so I dunno what I'm going to do next run. Maybe get another earthbox and bag of bas 3.0 on stand by for when the 1st run is harvested.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 27, 2021)

Here is my soil thread and recipe if anyone is interested






Please Critique my soil recipe!


Wondering what everyone thinks of my soil recipe? Also I am looking to add possibly Gypsum to the mix but not sure in what ratio with this mix, also I am using LEDs so I want to have a really high availability of calcium and magnesium as it seems like LEDs (and from what I have read a lot on...



www.rollitup.org


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## seymour b (May 27, 2021)

Here's a dumb question...how high will perlite wick? Have some ideas for a planter, but wondering that.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 27, 2021)

seymour b said:


> Here's a dumb question...how high will perlite wick? Have some ideas for a planter, but wondering that.


You should check out the world of hempys thread. A hempy bucket is like poor man's hydro. Basically a SIP but the entire thing is perlite. I graduated from hempys to sips lol


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## DankTankerous (May 28, 2021)

I wanted to take it to 8 weeks seeing as I’m barely seeing the preflowers. I have heard that topping the plant can slow the preflower development. Anyways it’ll be 7 weeks in two days, but I can’t wait around longer. The thing is a monster. I am keeping the lights off for 24-48 hrs then going into 12/12. I’m going to give the plant some AACT to help with the break down of nutrients that I top dressed it with. After two weeks I’ll top dress it with Dr Earth’s Flower along with other goodies. I’m going to need to buy a tent also, she has pretty much outgrown the cabinet o have here in. I have a hunch that she’s going to stretch quite a bit. Any who here she is today, at lights out


----------



## sudshead (May 28, 2021)

natureboygrower said:


> Sorry for this, but what a fucking asshole your neighbor is. He doesn't mind possibly intruding on your peace of mind by having randos/complete strangers stay next door to you every week, but he actually had the balls to complain about your plants bothering his guests? Think I'd be anonymously checking the town/permitting/codes to make sure he had all his papers in order to run an airbnb...
> 
> I tried amending my soil once and running another cycle but I didnt like the results either. I have such a small set up (2 EBs) mixing new soil each run is not a problem.


thanks - the airbnb is allowed - and I dont treat the airbnb guests rudely - I am actually nice to them as its not their fault - but i used to help them out with house repairs, did dump runs for them - but not anymore - i know play gangsta rap when they are outside  The wife came over to complain the husband didnt have the balls. Oh well life goes on


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## DankTankerous (May 29, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> thanks! they are going ok just the leaves are looking a little light compared to the first run in this soil in plastic grow bags.. this was at about same time frame 5 or 6sh weeks I think.
> 
> View attachment 4910464
> 
> ...


So I read about the buildabloom and you’re right you can use it in hydroponics. I’m just curious about the parts kelp meal that don’t get taken up by the roots. I have some Fish Amino Acid which’s main bacteria is LaB and I know some people put in their reservoir. I put a little in mine and will see what happens. I just turned the lights on, so Day One of Flowering has commenced


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## ilovereggae (May 29, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> So I read about the buildabloom and you’re right you can use it in hydroponics. I’m just curious about the parts kelp meal that don’t get taken up by the roots. I have some Fish Amino Acid which’s main bacteria is LaB and I know some people put in their reservoir. I put a little in mine and will see what happens. I just turned the lights on, so Day One of Flowering has commenced


I'm not too worried about the kelp meal I'm dosing it pretty light but even still, there's nothing to get funky its just a light tea from the seaweed and buildabloom. I'd be a little worried about anything that is an animal by product. I think the hydrolyzed fish protein powder for calmag might be ok but even that stinks just in dry form. no clue what the aminos will do sitting in the res like that.


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## Southernontariogrower (May 29, 2021)

Kindbud421 said:


> Pics of cups as promised. Slits allow roots to grow unrestricted (for the most part) . Remove outer cup when transplanting and plant inner cup into final pot.View attachment 4895569View attachment 4895570View attachment 4895571


Good idea, ty


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## Southernontariogrower (May 29, 2021)

my sip planted was overwatered after rain had to cut drain hole, so plant didnt float away.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 30, 2021)

Southernontariogrower said:


> my sip planted was overwatered after rain had to cut drain hole, so plant didnt float away.


You should have your soil covered so that won't happen


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## DankTankerous (May 30, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I'm not too worried about the kelp meal I'm dosing it pretty light but even still, there's nothing to get funky its just a light tea from the seaweed and buildabloom. I'd be a little worried about anything that is an animal by product. I think the hydrolyzed fish protein powder for calmag might be ok but even that stinks just in dry form. no clue what the aminos will do sitting in the res like that.


i guess you and I will both see.


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## NewGrower2011 (Jun 1, 2021)

So fellow SIP'ers I'm going to try another experiment and use "mini-SIPs" to help regulate watering in a small tent grow this time. I'm going to use stacked 2 gallon buckets this time. I'm noodling on what to use for the wicks. 

I've considered using rope (of some type nylon/hemp/etc) and draping those down into the rez and then the next thought was a usual 'wick' where the media is in a column that goes down into the bucket. Trick is, what would be a good riser/column to use that isn't too large for a 2 gallon setup.

In my bigger full sized SIPs that I posted before I was using 4" corrugated pipe and now I'm looking at what size PVC pipe I might be able to leverage for these new miniature ones but thought the crowd here might be able to help brainstorm some other options I may not be aware of.


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## Hash Hound (Jun 1, 2021)

I just bought some 3/8" cotton sash cord that is braided and has a polyester core and it's working great wicking up water.
I've also used strips of a fabric bag with good results.

I have two tomatoes in 5g buckets one with sash cord and one with a cottage cheese container packed with dirt as the wick, both are out performing the ones in the garden dirt.


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## DankTankerous (Jun 2, 2021)

Hey y’all

I’m a few days into flowering do not have enough nutrients in my soil for the rest of the grow. I was thinking of taking the cover off and piling another gallon and putting straw as a mulch cover that away I can still top dress and semi hand water the top just to keep it moist. Will that work? I top dressed with neem right under the cover and I think it was going anaerobic so I put more soil on top for it to breath (so the neem is not right under the cover. It started to stink (yes I know Neem stinks but this was way worse))

Any recommendations?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jun 2, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> Hey y’all
> 
> I’m a few days into flowering do not have enough nutrients in my soil for the rest of the grow. I was thinking of taking the cover off and piling another gallon and putting straw as a mulch cover that away I can still top dress and semi hand water the top just to keep it moist. Will that work? I top dressed with neem right under the cover and I think it was going anaerobic so I put more soil on top for it to breath (so the neem is not right under the cover. It started to stink (yes I know Neem stinks but this was way worse))
> 
> Any recommendations?


Compost tea maybe?


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## DankTankerous (Jun 2, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Compost tea maybe?


I’ll definitely be doing compost tea’s. I know Build a Soil did like a demo on it, it’s just hard to sort through all of their videos. I think I’ll buy some Dr Earth Flower girl. My soil is Coot’s mix and I have a bunch of other amendments too. I think I’ll be fine.


----------



## ilovereggae (Jun 2, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> Hey y’all
> 
> I’m a few days into flowering do not have enough nutrients in my soil for the rest of the grow. I was thinking of taking the cover off and piling another gallon and putting straw as a mulch cover that away I can still top dress and semi hand water the top just to keep it moist. Will that work? I top dressed with neem right under the cover and I think it was going anaerobic so I put more soil on top for it to breath (so the neem is not right under the cover. It started to stink (yes I know Neem stinks but this was way worse))
> 
> Any recommendations?


I've added more soil to a couple sips now, plants always seem to respond well to having more soil


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jun 2, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> I’ll definitely be doing compost tea’s. I know Build a Soil did like a demo on it, it’s just hard to sort through all of their videos. I think I’ll buy some Dr Earth Flower girl. My soil is Coot’s mix and I have a bunch of other amendments too. I think I’ll be fine.


Don't sort thru them. Watch them all front to back. They're very informative.


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## DankTankerous (Jun 2, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Don't sort thru them. Watch them all front to back. They're very informative.


They definitely are, I just don’t have the time in my schedule to watch them. I was just wondering if anyone had experience with it. I’ll keep doing my thing and I’ll report my findings.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jun 2, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> They definitely are, I just don’t have the time in my schedule to watch them. I was just wondering if anyone had experience with it. I’ll keep doing my thing and I’ll report my findings.


You know what? I'm sorry man, get some build a bloom. It's got water soluble npk. Also get some fish hydrolysate.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jun 2, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> Hey y’all
> 
> I’m a few days into flowering do not have enough nutrients in my soil for the rest of the grow. I was thinking of taking the cover off and piling another gallon and putting straw as a mulch cover that away I can still top dress and semi hand water the top just to keep it moist. Will that work? I top dressed with neem right under the cover and I think it was going anaerobic so I put more soil on top for it to breath (so the neem is not right under the cover. It started to stink (yes I know Neem stinks but this was way worse))
> 
> Any recommendations?


What was the neem for?


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## DankTankerous (Jun 2, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> You know what? I'm sorry man, get some build a bloom. It's got water soluble npk. Also get some fish hydrolysate.


its all good man thank you for suggestions. I don’t have build a bloom but I have all the ingredients, just not the ratio. Check out Fish Amino Acid, it’s more nutritious than fish hydrolysate 


Hollatchaboy said:


> What was the neem for?


Neem seed meal is high in nitrogen, it’s a good fertilizer, however it’s bitter and doesn’t smell nice that’s why it’s used in organic pesticides. although it doesn’t kill pests just keeps them away. It also regulates the microflora keeps the bad microbes away. It also breaks down quicker and is great for fungi life. It’s one of the key ingredients in the coot’s soil mix. Which is the mix I am using.


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## ilovereggae (Jun 2, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> its all good man thank you for suggestions. I don’t have build a bloom but I have all the ingredients, just not the ratio. Check out Fish Amino Acid, it’s more nutritious than fish hydrolysate
> 
> 
> Neem seed meal is high in nitrogen, it’s a good fertilizer, however it’s bitter and doesn’t smell nice that’s why it’s used in organic pesticides. although it doesn’t kill pests just keeps them away. It also regulates the microflora keeps the bad microbes away. It also breaks down quicker and is great for fungi life. It’s one of the key ingredients in the coot’s soil mix. Which is the mix I am using.


how are you making out w the fish aminos in the res?

so far so good w the buildabloom, kelp meal, and coconut powder


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## PJ Diaz (Jun 2, 2021)

The downside to neem is that it can affect flavor. I know people who can taste neem in buds when it's used.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jun 3, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> its all good man thank you for suggestions. I don’t have build a bloom but I have all the ingredients, just not the ratio. Check out Fish Amino Acid, it’s more nutritious than fish hydrolysate
> 
> 
> Neem seed meal is high in nitrogen, it’s a good fertilizer, however it’s bitter and doesn’t smell nice that’s why it’s used in organic pesticides. although it doesn’t kill pests just keeps them away. It also regulates the microflora keeps the bad microbes away. It also breaks down quicker and is great for fungi life. It’s one of the key ingredients in the coot’s soil mix. Which is the mix I am using.


Yea faa is great. I took the knf garden class. Amazing what you can do with fungus and ferments. Lol


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## DankTankerous (Jun 3, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> The downside to neem is that it can affect flavor. I know people who can taste neem in buds when it's used.


thats interesting, I have always wondered if inputs effect flavor. I have heard the same thing with fish products from DJ Short. I’ll look into it.


ilovereggae said:


> how are you making out w the fish aminos in the res?
> 
> so far so good w the buildabloom, kelp meal, and coconut powder


Nice! I stopped giving it FAA, my neem meal started getting gooey and muddy on top and smelling really bad. So I was afraid it would go anaerobic, so I stopped. I haven’t seen any averse effects from adding it nor do I see benefits. But I’m thinking about putting Fermented Fruit Juice made from bananas in there.


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## Hash Hound (Jun 4, 2021)

sipping right along here water only, garlic sherbert 8th week, she's so dark she's almost black.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jun 5, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> sipping right along here water only, garlic sherbert 8th week, she's so dark she's almost black.
> 
> View attachment 4916608
> 
> ...


Hot damn thats a purty one!!!


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## Hash Hound (Jun 5, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Hot damn thats a purty one!!!


thanks mg. Not bad for water only, Black Gold Organic soil amended with DrEarth, 7g bag top mulched sitting on wick ropes on a 3" platform.


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## DankTankerous (Jun 6, 2021)

She’s a monster, 1 week into flowering. I need to buy a tent…


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jun 10, 2021)

Sooo I'm pretty sure sips + mainlining to only 8 stalks and super cropping is going to equal literal baseball bats of buds...I hope I have a clone of this thing...


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## myke (Jun 11, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Sooo I'm pretty sure sips + mainlining to only 8 stalks and super cropping is going to equal literal baseball bats of buds...I hope I have a clone of this thing...


Why are the edges of the leaves brown?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jun 11, 2021)

myke said:


> Why are the edges of the leaves brown?


Fucking spider mites are killing me man


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## Xsan (Jun 11, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Fucking spider mites are killing me man



That sucks man!! I dealt with them on my last round, nasty lil shits


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jun 11, 2021)

Xsan said:


> That sucks man!! I dealt with them on my last round, nasty lil shits


Yeah I have never had to deal with them, but I expanded and I guess I was not ready to deal with the environmental control ramp up. Hoping I can salvage things.


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## myke (Jun 11, 2021)

Bummer. Shop vac with water in it and a good exhaust filter. Suck them babies off. Lol


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## DankTankerous (Jun 13, 2021)

Has anyone used mycorrhizae in their reservoirs? I have great white, and can add it to my watering can


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jun 13, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> Has anyone used mycorrhizae in their reservoirs? I have great white, and can add it to my watering can


I have only used it when transplanting/up potting to encourage more root development


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## myke (Jun 14, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> Has anyone used mycorrhizae in their reservoirs? I have great white, and can add it to my watering can


Add to the top and water in,nothing should go into the res other then water.Youll get a feel of how much water you can pour ontop and not get runoff.


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## DankTankerous (Jun 21, 2021)

Alright y’all I put my money where my mouth is and took the cover off added a gal of coot’s mix (with cover crops’s roots turned in). I put in non-inked cardboard as the walls and top dressed w/ Dr Earth’s flower bloom, bokashi, Sprouted Hemp, Corn, and Barley seeds ( I grade it into a meal), and Sea Kelp.

I also reconfigured my grow cabinet. I was loosing at least a foot in head room and a couple tops were within 4 inches of the light. I put the Outtake fan on the outside blowing air out of the Carbon Filter. I suspect it isn’t efficient seeing as I can smell my plant in the room. It’s a couple days past 3 weeks of flowering.

Strain: Blue Dream (SC cut) x Chocolate Diesel.

leaves are very narrow but not like a landrace either


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## Bignutes (Jun 24, 2021)

NewGrower2011 said:


> So fellow SIP'ers I'm going to try another experiment and use "mini-SIPs" to help regulate watering in a small tent grow this time. I'm going to use stacked 2 gallon buckets this time. I'm noodling on what to use for the wicks.
> 
> I've considered using rope (of some type nylon/hemp/etc) and draping those down into the rez and then the next thought was a usual 'wick' where the media is in a column that goes down into the bucket. Trick is, what would be a good riser/column to use that isn't too large for a 2 gallon setup.
> 
> In my bigger full sized SIPs that I posted before I was using 4" corrugated pipe and now I'm looking at what size PVC pipe I might be able to leverage for these new miniature ones but thought the crowd here might be able to help brainstorm some other options I may not be aware of.


Aim for 10% for the size of the wick compared to the size of the container. Also depends on the soil texture. A loamy mix is your target.


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## Kayaganja (Jun 24, 2021)

So as I promised updates two plants turned out to be males anyway it gotten so warm now , i’ve move plants outside and even threw afew beans in the ground afew pics of outdoor Sip


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jun 27, 2021)

About 9 hours of taking down plants today and rinsing them... still 2 more to go... holy shit this is going to be a massive haul!


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## myke (Jun 28, 2021)

Little update on my 10 gallon sips. Adding Gaia at 4 tbls a week. I’m at day 20 of 12/12 so mixed 50/50 bloom veg. Going on nicely. Some drink more then others but no problems.


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## myke (Jun 28, 2021)

And an update on my outdoor sips. Tomatoes are growing 2” a day. These are 27 gallon totes with 2 5” net pots in ea. Next year all my tomatoes will be in sips.


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## DankTankerous (Jun 29, 2021)

Hey folks,

still dealing with heat issues. Aside from needing a new tent, a portable AC unit would be great. Other than that she’s doing great. She’ll be getting a EWC Tea, with a handful of Bu’s Biodynamic and a cup of stinging nettle leaves. I understand the Nettles are “high” in nitrogen, but it’s the other nutritious part of it I’m interested in. It can’t be higher than Fish meal, so I’m not really worried about it. Here in a week or so, she’ll get freshly harvest Worm Castings top dress and that’s it. The roots are still expanding, which I thought would. I have read that roots stop growing after the stretch… I really don’t think that’s true. I’ll probably keep having to top with Coot’s mix and Worm Castings.

She’s at 31 days here, a 1/3 of the way through


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jun 30, 2021)

All is chopped washed (stupid freaking mites) and hung. I have approx 80 tops... this should be a crazy yield!


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## myke (Jun 30, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> All is chopped washed (stupid freaking mites) and hung. I have approx 80 tops... this should be a crazy yield!


Pics?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jul 1, 2021)

myke said:


> Pics?


I'll get a pic of the tent they are hanging in today


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## myke (Jul 1, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I'll get a pic of the tent they are hanging in today


These were from pots sitting ontop of perlite IIRC?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jul 1, 2021)

myke said:


> Pics?


What cha think?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jul 1, 2021)

myke said:


> These were from pots sitting ontop of perlite IIRC?


No all earth boxes and inntainers


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## myke (Jul 1, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> No all earth boxes and inntainers


Looks good,so was it PM back a while ago you mentioned?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jul 1, 2021)

myke said:


> Looks good,so was it PM back a while ago you mentioned?


Spider mites  so I washed everything in a mixture of about 5 gallons of water 1/2 cup baking soda and a cup of hydrogen peroxide and then and cool water rinse after. About 30 seconds each.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jul 1, 2021)

myke said:


> Looks good,so was it PM back a while ago you mentioned?


I know they don't look great lol stupid spider mites and some issues with my timers really messed with this run.i will be doing another more refined run using this method. Sips and mainling to 8 nodes, seems like a very efficient use of space and soil capacity to maximize yields, controlling larf, and not growing insane trees that out grow your space.


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## Hash Hound (Jul 3, 2021)

this is my own Gringo2 (ColGoldxWidow)xWidow in a 5g bag sitting on a wick and riser looking a little pale so I top dressed with some Dr Earth.
It was packed solid with roots up top, I couldn't scratch the nutes in so I just poked a few holes and top watered a little.
There are normally two paint strainer bags full of growstone gnat block on top that act like a mulch also.


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## Xsan (Jul 11, 2021)

howdy sipers, my next run will definitely be a sip and I was going to try the greens probiotic method with grokashi and em1 but am looking to keep the shopping list down a bit so my question is do you think i could go water only if I did a 40 gallon tub with the 4 inch pipe on the bottom and used the bas 3.0 soil or do you think I am still gonna need to add some juice? Should i just get the bas top dress kit or would you mix up some bus, ewc, pumice, and kraft blend, or a different combination? Planning on one plant in the container under a 600 samsung strip covering a 4x4 area. most likely will run ro water with organic cal mag

running the math this would be roughly 7.5 gallons of water and 30 gallons of soil


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## GrassBurner (Jul 11, 2021)

@ilovereggae can give you the info on BAS in sips


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## myke (Jul 11, 2021)

Xsan said:


> howdy sipers, my next run will definitely be a sip and I was going to try the greens probiotic method with grokashi and em1 but am looking to keep the shopping list down a bit so my question is do you think i could go water only if I did a 40 gallon tub with the 4 inch pipe on the bottom and used the bas 3.0 soil or do you think I am still gonna need to add some juice? Should i just get the bas top dress kit or would you mix up some bus, ewc, pumice, and kraft blend, or a different combination? Planning on one plant in the container under a 600 samsung strip covering a 4x4 area. most likely will run ro water with organic cal mag
> 
> running the math this would be roughly 7.5 gallons of water and 30 gallons of soil


If you plan on growing a big girl then yea you'll need to add.One plant in a 4x4 will be a lot of buds.
Ive always thought why try to build a full tank and then run it dry,is it not better to just keep the soil full?


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## ilovereggae (Jul 11, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> @ilovereggae can give you the info on BAS in sips


here's the 10x10 series, I think he does some sips in this one



https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6YUuCutX6VuY9SuP7BsbHsHpon9aj6KU



don't have time to dig for the others rn, but I think they are all on page 1 or 2 of this thread


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## Xsan (Jul 11, 2021)

myke said:


> If you plan on growing a big girl then yea you'll need to add.One plant in a 4x4 will be a lot of buds.
> Ive always thought why try to build a full tank and then run it dry,is it not better to just keep the soil full?



Yeah one big girl is the goal, would you topdres with the topdress kit or make a concoction of bus blend, ewc, kraft blend, and pumice? or something else entirely? I fig I will start it in 1 gallon pots then into the 40 gal sip for veg and flower. fig fill the container when i drop the seed so the soil can jive while it is a seedling then transfer and do a solid layer for flowering?


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## myke (Jul 11, 2021)

Xsan said:


> Yeah one big girl is the goal, would you topdres with the topdress kit or make a concoction of bus blend, ewc, kraft blend, and pumice? or something else entirely? I fig I will start it in 1 gallon pots then into the 40 gal sip for veg and flower. fig fill the container when i drop the seed so the soil can jive while it is a seedling then transfer and do a solid layer for flowering?


With soil Ive made it seems like 5 gallons lasts 3-4 weeks without top dress,so maybe with that much more soil it may last.But.If it starts to run out your way too late and then your scrambling.


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## Polyuro (Jul 11, 2021)

I top dress bu's with Kashi and the rest is mixed into the base soil. Over time I top dress craft blend from BAS and or teas, fish hydrolyslate. Also a jobe's fertilizer stick a week before flip is really easy and effective. Some stick per 5 gallons. Has macros micros endos and ectos all in one. Only water in the rez and em-1.


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## myke (Jul 11, 2021)

This is two 27g sips with a tomato plant in ea. They started with cooked soil and I’ve been top dressing right from the beginning so I don’t fall short. They drink now on average a gallon of water ea a day. They’ve been in since May 25th


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## Xsan (Jul 11, 2021)

Polyuro said:


> I top dress bu's with Kashi and the rest is mixed into the base soil. Over time I top dress craft blend from BAS and or teas, fish hydrolyslate. Also a jobe's fertilizer stick a week before flip is really easy and effective. Some stick per 5 gallons. Has macros micros endos and ectos all in one. Only water in the rez and em-1.



I was considering doing the kashi and em1 but am trying to keep costs down if possible. The cost of the em1, molasses, burping jars, and kashi is what brought me to my original question. Trying to see if a similar method would work without the kashi and em1 if the container was large enough and a similar top dress routine was followed. Once at transplant, once a month in veg, and once before flower. Maybe just do the compost, pumice and kashi or craft blend and not do the em1 is suppose? 

I know @Richard Drysift is a big fan of the jobes sticks and his garden is one to envy but he is WAY above my level in experience, knowledge, and skill. Trying to keep it somewhat simple and repeatable if possible. Im still a noob trying to get decent so I can work on getting good then try to figure out being able to hold a conversation with someone like Mr. Drysift.


----------



## Xsan (Jul 11, 2021)

Xsan said:


> I was considering doing the kashi and em1 but am trying to keep costs down if possible. The cost of the em1, molasses, burping jars, and kashi is what brought me to my original question. Trying to see if a similar method would work without the kashi and em1 if the container was large enough and a similar top dress routine was followed. Once at transplant, once a month in veg, and once before flower. Maybe just do the compost, pumice and kashi or craft blend and not do the em1 is suppose?
> 
> I know @Richard Drysift is a big fan of the jobes sticks and EWC his garden is one to envy but he is WAY above my level in experience, knowledge, and skill. Trying to keep it somewhat simple and repeatable if possible. Im still a noob trying to get decent so I can work on getting good then try to figure out being able to hold a conversation with someone like Mr. Drysift.



@myke what are you topdressing with? Any thoughts on doing the top dress kit or mixing some ewc, bus, kraft blend or kashi, and pumice?

and since I tagged the master, if you have an opinion Mr. Drysift I would certainly be interested.

Also fwiw my plan is to keep it covered with a plastic bag,


would you folks load up the bas3.0 with more bus, ewc, kraft blend and or kashi in the beginning as well? Trying to avoid buying each element separately if I can just add the kraft blend.

sorry for all the questions, switching up from the plans of the kashi and em1 makes it a bit more complicated I will say but if similar results can be achieved slightly cheaper also makes the calendar easier to maintain if running perpetual which is end goal in time without having to expand the em1 then that's a win in my book


sorry for being all over the place, trying to have the right plan so I can avoid putting up another help me fix my mistake post lol edited to add doubly apolgies for the double post, that was purely accidental and a typo situation i beleive.


----------



## Polyuro (Jul 11, 2021)

Xsan said:


> I was considering doing the kashi and em1 but am trying to keep costs down if possible. The cost of the em1, molasses, burping jars, and kashi is what brought me to my original question. Trying to see if a similar method would work without the kashi and em1 if the container was large enough and a similar top dress routine was followed. Once at transplant, once a month in veg, and once before flower. Maybe just do the compost, pumice and kashi or craft blend and not do the em1 is suppose?
> 
> I know @Richard Drysift is a big fan of the jobes sticks and his garden is one to envy but he is WAY above my level in experience, knowledge, and skill. Trying to keep it somewhat simple and repeatable if possible. Im still a noob trying to get decent so I can work on getting good then try to figure out being able to hold a conversation with someone like Mr. Drysift.


Em-1 is a bit suspect. I use it and have not used it and results are not blatantly obvious one way or the other so don't think you'll miss out on too much. 
Any way u go from what your thinking will work. Watch the link above from BAS. He doesn't use em-1 like Alan adkinson. Also answers all your questions about top dress. Good info in there too about top dressing and filling rez in veg. It's about the only time a sip can fuck up by overwatering.
Good luck. And I still do suggest the jobe's sticks. Super simple and cheap.


----------



## myke (Jul 11, 2021)

I try to keep it simple,I dont do teas etc... just top dress with a dry gaia and home made ewc.Plain tap water.Simple.I buy whats local and is cheap.Im in Canada so limited to what i can buy.Maybe thats a good thing?


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## Xsan (Jul 11, 2021)

@Polyuro and @myke thank you


ilovereggae said:


> here's the 10x10 series, I think he does some sips in this one
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For some reason, I missed this. Thank you! I have heard about the videos and was never able to the ones I was looking for.


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## Xsan (Jul 11, 2021)

Polyuro said:


> Em-1 is a bit suspect. I use it and have not used it and results are not blatantly obvious one way or the other so don't think you'll miss out on too much.
> Any way u go from what your thinking will work. Watch the link above from BAS. He doesn't use em-1 like Alan adkinson. Also answers all your questions about top dress. Good info in there too about top dressing and filling rez in veg. It's about the only time a sip can fuck up by overwatering.
> Good luck. And I still do suggest the jobe's sticks. Super simple and cheap.



Thank you for pointing out that I missed the link to the videos, this is why I am trying to double check myself before I purchase!


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## Hash Hound (Jul 11, 2021)

i recently won plant of the month on another forum and will be receiving a few lines of synthetic nutes as prizes I have no experience with, Blue Planet 3 part, Prescription Blend 6 part and Remos 7 part. Anyone have experience using any of these? Also anyone using synthetic nutes with their sip and if so are you using soil or coco?

I posted a few of her earlier, but these won the prize.


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## Xsan (Jul 11, 2021)

myke said:


> I try to keep it simple,I dont do teas etc... just top dress with a dry gaia and home made ewc.Plain tap water.Simple.I buy whats local and is cheap.Im in Canada so limited to what i can buy.Maybe thats a good thing?



I am going to do some homework on the gaia but I this is what im talking about, thank you! My local water is suspect so ro and organic calmag will be my source


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## Polyuro (Jul 11, 2021)

Xsan said:


> @Polyuro and @myke thank you
> 
> 
> 
> For some reason, I missed this. Thank you! I have heard about the videos and was never able to the ones I was looking for.


Yep. Ep. 24. Good tips.


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## Xsan (Jul 11, 2021)

Polyuro said:


> Yep. Ep. 24. Good tips.



I know what I will be watching when the kiddos go to sleep tonight


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## Tikbalang (Jul 12, 2021)

A lot of this is way beyond me but seems like the next level up in organic. some of you here may be interested in this if you aren’t dabbling already, especially those venturing into bokashi, etc. hope you find it as interesting as I have, here is a link I found on a linked to a supersoil site





Probiotic | Fermentationfarmer


Korean Natural Farming, Living Soil, Compost Tea, Integrated Pest Management, Fermentation, Sprouted Seed Tea, Lactobacillius, LABS, Sub-Irrigated Planters, DIY, SIP, Organic Gardening, www.plantmoreseed.com, https://joegroworegon.wixsite.com/fermentationfarmer




joegroworegon.wixsite.com


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## DankTankerous (Jul 12, 2021)

Just past 6 weeks in flower. The middle I starting to turn purple and within the past couple days, put on more frost. Rubbing the trich’s on the leaves smell like blueberry syrup. She still has at least four more weeks to go. I gave her a compost tea with my freshly harvest worm castings, a couple cup’s of Bu’s, Banana FFJ, LaB, Fishbone Meal, Root’s Organic Cal-Mag (it’s the top dress meal) and Langbeinite. It’s still not the perfect conditions with the buds being so close to the light, lack of space and high temperatures, but I’m doing the best with what I got.

Blue Dream (SC cut) x Chocolate Diesel from Useful Seeds


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## Hollatchaboy (Jul 12, 2021)

DankTankerous said:


> Just past 6 weeks in flower. The middle I starting to turn purple and within the past couple days, put on more frost. Rubbing the trich’s on the leaves smell like blueberry syrup. She still has at least four more weeks to go. I gave her a compost tea with my freshly harvest worm castings, a couple cup’s of Bu’s, Banana FFJ, LaB, Fishbone Meal, Root’s Organic Cal-Mag (it’s the top dress meal) and Langbeinite. It’s still not the perfect conditions with the buds being so close to the light, lack of space and high temperatures, but I’m doing the best with what I got.
> 
> Blue Dream (SC cut) x Chocolate Diesel from Useful Seeds
> 
> View attachment 4942482View attachment 4942483View attachment 4942484View attachment 4942485


She looks like she's not liking the heat, but she looks good!


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## GrassBurner (Jul 12, 2021)

Christmas Tree Bud crosses coming right along. 2 Blackbird #3's in the back, and a Horchata up front. I put them in the sips a few days ago. Waiting for the explosion, as soon as it happens theyre going in the flower cabinet.


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## Hash Hound (Jul 13, 2021)

I have a SIP experiment out back with tomatoes, on the left a double bucket with a deli cup with holes for the wick.
The one on the right has two 1/2" x 8" rope wicks through the bottom of the top bucket, about 3 1/2 in the reservoir and 4 1/2 in the soil.
All used grow room soil amended with Dr Earth Life All Purpose pellets. The SIPs are kicking it, the stalks on both are twice the size of the soil ones with the wick having the edge and a bit taller.


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## myke (Jul 13, 2021)

Great toms.Next year all mine will be sips.


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## myke (Jul 14, 2021)

Day 35 of 12/12 with the sips.


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## Richard Drysift (Jul 15, 2021)

Xsan said:


> I was considering doing the kashi and em1 but am trying to keep costs down if possible. The cost of the em1, molasses, burping jars, and kashi is what brought me to my original question. Trying to see if a similar method would work without the kashi and em1 if the container was large enough and a similar top dress routine was followed. Once at transplant, once a month in veg, and once before flower. Maybe just do the compost, pumice and kashi or craft blend and not do the em1 is suppose?
> 
> I know @Richard Drysift is a big fan of the jobes sticks and his garden is one to envy but he is WAY above my level in experience, knowledge, and skill. Trying to keep it somewhat simple and repeatable if possible. Im still a noob trying to get decent so I can work on getting good then try to figure out being able to hold a conversation with someone like Mr. Drysift.


I probably sound a lot smarter than I really am lol. Keep it simple and get a worm bin; I love my worm factory 360 and it provides all the compost I could ever need. Jobes sticks are real good for a slow release NPK in flower phase but it is supernaturally active compost that drives everything.


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## Feo309 (Jul 16, 2021)

Newb question here-

I’m looking at building a couple of SIPs for indoor use, using 16.5 gallon totes.

What are y’all using for covers? Plastic, fabric, recycled garments torn by Prohibitionists every time another state goes legal? LOL

I’m assuming the cover is there to control evaporation in lieu of mulch, does it have any other function?

Thanks in advance for any input.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jul 16, 2021)

Feo309 said:


> Newb question here-
> 
> I’m looking at building a couple of SIPs for indoor use, using 16.5 gallon totes.
> 
> ...


I believe it's mostly for evaporation, and to help keep light off the soil.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jul 16, 2021)

I'm about to add water to the res of my earthbox for the first time this weekend. Do you add a wetting agent to the water before adding it to the res, or should nothing organic go in the res?


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## Polyuro (Jul 16, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I'm about to add water to the res of my earthbox for the first time this weekend. Do you add a wetting agent to the water before adding it to the res, or should nothing organic go in the res?


Just fill the rez with water. U can put organics in rez and have no problems at all. It's impossible to keep any and all organic matter out if u use peat mixes so take that however u will. I believe one of em-1's first uses was keeping things healthy so if it may concern u put some in once a harvest to clean things up. I would suggest also completely cleaning your sip with bleach every few grows too if no em-1. IMO.


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## ilovereggae (Jul 16, 2021)

Feo309 said:


> Newb question here-
> 
> I’m looking at building a couple of SIPs for indoor use, using 16.5 gallon totes.
> 
> ...


also does wonders at keeping fungus gnats under control as they have a hard time landing and breeding


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## Hollatchaboy (Jul 16, 2021)

Polyuro said:


> Just fill the rez with water. U can put organics in rez and have no problems at all. It's impossible to keep any and all organic matter out if u use peat mixes so take that however u will. I believe one of em-1's first uses was keeping things healthy so if it may concern u put some in once a harvest to clean things up. I would suggest also completely cleaning your sip with bleach every few grows too if no em-1. IMO.


Ok thanks. I guess it is impossible to keep it all out. Especially with soil wicks sitting in the water. I just wasn't sure if yucca would make the res go bad. I'm just gonna add straight water. Maybe em-1 if I smell anything funky. I figure a worm or two are gonna fall in eventually. That'll create a problem in sure.


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## dogterB (Jul 17, 2021)

This has by far been the longest thread that I have ever read, really good stuff guys. I am in the process of converting to SIPs and want to get your opinions. I'm going to try out "Alaska grow buckets" because I am a broke student and can scavenge most of the pieces needed. I really couldn't find much of anything about using them for cannabis though.



They are basically 5 gal buckets with a plastic colander in the bottom, air holes cut into the walls, and lined with fabric to simulate a fabric pot. These are watered from a float valve controlled res. I'm in the process of scavenging parts and pieces and am going to try out 2 in my 2x2 as a test run to see how they do. After reading through the entire thread, I've run into some questions that I hope have answers. Any advice/help is appreciated! Also, I grow autos for now so any tips on autos in SIPs are welcome.

The premise is that the colander sits on the bottom of the bucket, allowing some of the soil to be submerged and be the wick. With this setup, from what I've read, this seems like it would be easy to waterlog the soil. Any thoughts on this? Other options I've thought of:
- Just keep a very low water level
- Put perlite in the colander to create space between the soil and water, and act as a wick
- Flip the colander over, pack soil along the curve and walls to act as the wick, and have the colander be like an air dome above the water

I really liked @Tim Fox approach, simple and straight forward with the FFOF & tomato tone (2 cups, right?), water only. I plan to go this route, unless you think it would be too much for autos. I saw a more recent ingredient list he uses, but I have to go with his earlier mix for budget. I have some Dr. Earth Flower Girl that I can use. Would you recommend mixing it in as well? Or top dressing later? Or using in teas? I also have some EWC. I'm also hesitant on doing a trench with autos, but what do I know?

And do I need to put in an overflow hole in the air gap area with this kind of setup to keep the air fresh? Or would the upper air holes provide enough?

Again, awesome thread. It definitely has my wheels turning, thanks to all who have shared their knowledge, triumphs, and failures. An old Eskimo once told me, "Learn from your mistakes, but also from others', life is too short to make them all yourself."


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## ilovereggae (Jul 17, 2021)

dogterB said:


> This has by far been the longest thread that I have ever read, really good stuff guys. I am in the process of converting to SIPs and want to get your opinions. I'm going to try out "Alaska grow buckets" because I am a broke student and can scavenge most of the pieces needed. I really couldn't find much of anything about using them for cannabis though.
> 
> View attachment 4945657View attachment 4945658
> 
> ...


seems like a cool setup, but also a lot more complicated than most of the designs in this thread. 

if you are on a budget, 2 lowes 5 gal buckets, some pvc and a solo cup as your wick is under $20 (prob closer to 10). or Rubbermaid totes if you can find a good deal provide a little more surface area for a few more $. I would stick with setups that are proven to work with cannabis at first. Then do one like the design you showed, and you will have a baseline to compare against.


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## Hash Hound (Jul 17, 2021)

dogterB said:


> The premise is that the colander sits on the bottom of the bucket, allowing some of the soil to be submerged and be the wick. With this setup, from what I've read, this seems like it would be easy to waterlog the soil. Any thoughts on this? Other options I've thought of:
> - Just keep a very low water level
> - Put perlite in the colander to create space between the soil and water, and act as a wick
> - Flip the colander over, pack soil along the curve and walls to act as the wick, and have the colander be like an air dome above the water


I used a colander in one of my outdoor sips for a zucchini and it's struggling and almost dead compared to my other SIPs that are doing great.
I thought of the upside down method also leaving room for more water less soil, I'll give that a try next time.


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## myke (Jul 17, 2021)

Anything will work as long as the bottom of your pot doenst sit directly in the water,just the wick.5 g buckets are too tall and skinny.You want wide rather then tall.This gives more surface area for topdress and the microbes to live and do there thing.


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## myke (Jul 17, 2021)

Just doing a top dress on my outside sips. Having the tote lid on sure keeps the moisture nice on the surface. The soil mites love it. I usually just make a trench add some Gaia 444 and water it in a little. I’ll then cover with some ewc. In a couple of days I’ll spread it around a little more.


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## myke (Jul 17, 2021)

Going to need more trellis work on the ceiling.


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## Bignutes (Jul 17, 2021)

Xsan said:


> I was considering doing the kashi and em1 but am trying to keep costs down if possible. The cost of the em1, molasses, burping jars, and kashi is what brought me to my original question. Trying to see if a similar method would work without the kashi and em1 if the container was large enough and a similar top dress routine was followed. Once at transplant, once a month in veg, and once before flower. Maybe just do the compost, pumice and kashi or craft blend and not do the em1 is suppose?
> 
> I know @Richard Drysift is a big fan of the jobes sticks and his garden is one to envy but he is WAY above my level in experience, knowledge, and skill. Trying to keep it somewhat simple and repeatable if possible. Im still a noob trying to get decent so I can work on getting good then try to figure out being able to hold a conversation with someone like Mr. Drysift.


make LAB instead of em1, it’s cheap to make. I did a run with whole wheat flour and alfalfa pellets instead of kashi, you end up with a mycelium layer in very short time. I did 20 litre or 5gallon and it lasted 4 weeks in veg without fertilizer in a sip, so a 40 litre should last you an added 4-5 weeks. If you Jobed spike it I’m positive you’d get to the finish line


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## Polyuro (Jul 17, 2021)

myke said:


> Going to need more trellis work on the ceiling. View attachment 4945770


Maybe drill small holes through the rafter joists and put wire through. Let the plants canopy fill the whole ceiling of the room!!!!! Love your work btw


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## myke (Jul 17, 2021)

Polyuro said:


> Maybe drill small holes through the rafter joists and put wire through. Let the plants canopy fill the whole ceiling of the room!!!!! Love your work btw


Just trying not to put too many holes,small nails may work.I guess if its going to be a yearly thing your idea is good.Not sure yet I have a week to decide.


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## Rocket Soul (Jul 18, 2021)

dogterB said:


> This has by far been the longest thread that I have ever read, really good stuff guys. I am in the process of converting to SIPs and want to get your opinions. I'm going to try out "Alaska grow buckets" because I am a broke student and can scavenge most of the pieces needed. I really couldn't find much of anything about using them for cannabis though.
> 
> View attachment 4945657View attachment 4945658
> 
> ...


Colinder wick: yes it tends to wick much too much. Imo thickness of wick and distance to water surface is 2 out of 3 determining factors for how much they will wick. Colinder maxes these to factors out. It might be better to just fill the subirrigation once a day with as much water as your plants can take, sort of like watering from below. This is the approach that herbin farmer on yt took.


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## Autodoctor (Jul 18, 2021)

These have worked pretty well in the past


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## myke (Jul 18, 2021)

dogterB said:


> This has by far been the longest thread that I have ever read, really good stuff guys. I am in the process of converting to SIPs and want to get your opinions. I'm going to try out "Alaska grow buckets" because I am a broke student and can scavenge most of the pieces needed. I really couldn't find much of anything about using them for cannabis though.
> 
> View attachment 4945657View attachment 4945658
> 
> ...


As long as theirs an area of just straight water for the roots to live,this makes the hydro part work so well.
You could just make a 2x2 frame say 10" deep, line with plastic ,fill with perlite and water, set your grow bag on top.Lots of water /root capacity then.


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## ilovereggae (Jul 18, 2021)

Autodoctor said:


> These have worked pretty well in the past View attachment 4946264


I've been tempted to try one of these. seems like the simplest way to make a SIP. price is kind of steep normally tho. Will def grab some if they ever go on sale.


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## Autodoctor (Jul 18, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I've been tempted to try one of these. seems like the simplest way to make a SIP. price is kind of steep normally tho. Will def grab some if they ever go on sale.


 i use them now on my pepper and tomato plants now and yeah seems price has gone up some but I don’t like dyi stuff.


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## ilovereggae (Jul 18, 2021)

Autodoctor said:


> i use them now on my pepper and tomato plants now and yeah seems price has gone up some but I don’t like dyi stuff.


fair enough. that's why I went with the Earthboxes.


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## Tim Fox (Jul 18, 2021)

dogterB said:


> This has by far been the longest thread that I have ever read, really good stuff guys. I am in the process of converting to SIPs and want to get your opinions. I'm going to try out "Alaska grow buckets" because I am a broke student and can scavenge most of the pieces needed. I really couldn't find much of anything about using them for cannabis though.
> 
> View attachment 4945657View attachment 4945658
> 
> ...


hey good to meet you,,, if you have 5 gallon buckets,,, skip the alaska method and make earth buckets with the 5 gallon buckets,, cheap, uses the parts you have on hand still,,, and you can still link them with the Res and fill pipes you showed,,, here is a link check it out 
little*big*harvest: How To Make an Earth Bucket (littlebigharvest.com) 

yes you can use the FFOF and tomato fert,, i have had good grows with it,,


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## myke (Jul 21, 2021)

Sipping along. Day 40 something


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## myke (Jul 21, 2021)

And the other sips.


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## dogterB (Jul 21, 2021)

Thanks all for the input! I'm still going to give it a go and play around with the idea. If it doesn't work out I'll at least have the auto watering setup and can just pop new buckets in. I'll run 2 buckets, one with the colander turned over to form a dome and another like normal but with perlite in the colander to act as the wick.


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## myke (Jul 25, 2021)

Planning ahead wondering is there a wick size to soil ratio that may work better?You look at some out door ones with drainage tile in the bottom and dirt just sits on top. Basically no wick.Compared to a fabric pot ontop of a perlte bed witch is basically all wick.

Thinking theres a benefit to having bare roots living in water compared to large wicks where roots are in soil under water.

Could compare sips where one has less soil with more water capacity so more water roots, to more soil /larger wicks.

Ive only used 1 style so far, 1 5" net pot to approx. 9 gallons of soil.


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## Hash Hound (Jul 25, 2021)

myke said:


> Planning ahead wondering is there a wick size to soil ratio that may work better?You look at some out door ones with drainage tile in the bottom and dirt just sits on top. Basically no wick.Compared to a fabric pot ontop of a perlte bed witch is basically all wick.


two pages back post #3294 I show using two different wicking methods in my tomato double bucket sips, one a deli cup and one with 1/2" rope.
Both are doing great with a slight edge to the wicks.
Indoor I use two pieces of 3/8" rope (cotton sash cord) draped over a plant riser instead of a container of perlite and that works real good too as you can see in post #3286

this is an insert I bought on azon that had the 1/2" cord included. I was using that for the plant riser but it was a bit to tall and unstable so I shortened the legs a bit, the wick was a bit to thick that's why I bought some 3/8".
I used those 1/2" wicks in the double bucket outdoor.


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## myke (Jul 25, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> two pages back post #3294 I show using two different wicking methods in my tomato double bucket sips, one a deli cup and one with 1/2" rope.
> Both are doing great with a slight edge to the wicks.
> Indoor I use two pieces of 3/8" rope (cotton sash cord) draped over a plant riser instead of a container of perlite and that works real good too as you can see in post #3286
> 
> ...


Thats right forgot about that nice work.

What Im getting at is having water roots or more of them sooner.You can tell by how much water they use meaning theres more water roots,I think.So I guess a comparison between two same size sips but one with much less soil then the other.Allowing roots to quickly fill the wick and sit in water.Would need more top dressing for sure.


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## ilovereggae (Jul 25, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> two pages back post #3294 I show using two different wicking methods in my tomato double bucket sips, one a deli cup and one with 1/2" rope.
> Both are doing great with a slight edge to the wicks.


sorry which one has the slight edge? deli cup or ropes? 

also can u post link to that insert on amazon?


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## Hash Hound (Jul 25, 2021)

The rope has a slight edge but not by much, both are out preforming the tomatoes in dirt. The tom in ground is about the same height, but the ones in the buckets have thicker stalks and branches, darker green and more fruits forming. The rope may have the edge but that's only judging by it being a few inches taller, both are very healthy.
At the end of season I'll dissect the dirt to see what the root structure looks like.

They fit nice into a bucket. Some review said they are hard to get out once you get them in but I had no problem.

https://www.amazon.com/Watering-Bucket-Garden-Wicking-Plates/dp/B01DWSB2FI/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=Self+Watering+Bucket+Garden+(Set+of+2)+5+gal+Bucket+Water+Wicking+Plates&qid=1627250507&sr=8-2


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## ilovereggae (Jul 25, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> they fit nice into a bucket. Some reviews say they are hard to get out once you get them in but I had no problem.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Watering-Bucket-Garden-Wicking-Plates/dp/B01DWSB2FI?pd_rd_w=BpEsA&pf_rd_p=8baf753a-4815-4dcb-a8bf-42c9153b6c3c&pf_rd_r=J7G30TCG12GQN2YPSWZZ&pd_rd_r=b5458f11-6e42-422c-8c24-af5769ea212e&pd_rd_wg=nHyar&pd_rd_i=B01DWSB2FI&psc=1&ref_=pd_bap_d_rp_27_i


how do you water? just regular top water or do u drill a hole for a pvc fill pipe?


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## Hash Hound (Jul 25, 2021)

Well with the tomatoes I have a tube through the top buckets to fill the reservoir and an overflow hole about three inches up from the bottom.
With the heat we've been having I'm filling them daily.
Using the riser indoor it's sitting in a dish pan and I just fill the res. to a line marked on the side,


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## xIPhobiaIx (Jul 27, 2021)

Hello all, just a quick question.
I am thinking of picking up the 3 gallon and 6 gallon octopots autofill systems but am also looking at a ebb and flow or dwc system.

I have looked around the threads and notice people talking about the excellent yields from SIPs and esp octopots though it was hard to find any specific answeres comparing them with pure hydro.

So, my question is does the octopot really outperform pure hydroponic systems when it comes to yield?

This is just the last piece of the puzzle before pulling the trigger. Thanks!


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## myke (Jul 28, 2021)

xIPhobiaIx said:


> Hello all, just a quick question.
> I am thinking of picking up the 3 gallon and 6 gallon octopots autofill systems but am also looking at a ebb and flow or dwc system.
> 
> I have looked around the threads and notice people talking about the excellent yields from SIPs and esp octopots though it was hard to find any specific answeres comparing them with pure hydro.
> ...


This depends on your space and what size plants you plan on growing.


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## xIPhobiaIx (Jul 28, 2021)

myke said:


> This depends on your space and what size plants you plan on growing.


For veg it will be 12 plants in a 4x8 tent grown to almost 2 feet tall than transferred to a room that the grow space will be 12x8 and the ceilings are 8 ft tall. However, not sure I want to grow them as big as I did last time (7ft) cause the work was so damn much and it was super hard to train them. I think 5ft will be the max and they will be ScroG'd in both veg and flower with being topped as well. Both rooms are CO2 enriched.

So with all that again not looking to know how much I will yield but theoretically between octopots vs hydroponics (ebb and flow, rdwc) which would be a better medium to provide a better yield. (assuming both systems are ran and grown correctly)


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## myke (Jul 28, 2021)

xIPhobiaIx said:


> For veg it will be 12 plants in a 4x8 tent grown to almost 2 feet tall than transferred to a room that the grow space will be 12x8 and the ceilings are 8 ft tall. However, not sure I want to grow them as big as I did last time (7ft) cause the work was so damn much and it was super hard to train them. I think 5ft will be the max and they will be ScroG'd in both veg and flower with being topped as well. Both rooms are CO2 enriched.
> 
> So with all that again not looking to know how much I will yield but theoretically between octopots vs hydroponics (ebb and flow, rdwc) which would be a better medium to provide a better yield. (assuming both systems are ran and grown correctly)


Having grow both ways, rdwc and 10g sips. The organic buds dont shrink as much as hydro.With that said youll need a lot of dirt.12 plants= 120 gallons of soil.Those octa pots maybe to small not sure.Need room for roots.
Rdwc needs a cool location,flood tables you can get away with warmer temps.
I found transplanting a 5g pot so about a 2' plant into a 10g sip the plant it literally took off growing like a hydro plant.
Hydro set up right can give you 4-6 days of no top ups.My sips Ive found they need watering every other day.That octa pot system looks like could go a week with small plants.
Yield is depending on the grower,12 oz plants are possible with both ways.Need about a 3x3 area for ea plant.


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## xIPhobiaIx (Jul 28, 2021)

myke said:


> Having grow both ways, rdwc and 10g sips. The organic buds dont shrink as much as hydro.With that said youll need a lot of dirt.12 plants= 120 gallons of soil.Those octa pots maybe to small not sure.Need room for roots.
> Rdwc needs a cool location,flood tables you can get away with warmer temps.
> I found transplanting a 5g pot so about a 2' plant into a 10g sip the plant it literally took off growing like a hydro plant.
> Hydro set up right can give you 4-6 days of no top ups.My sips Ive found they need watering every other day.That octa pot system looks like could go a week with small plants.
> Yield is depending on the grower,12 oz plants are possible with both ways.Need about a 3x3 area for ea plant.


Awesome information thank you, so 4-5ft tall
plants might need more room than a coco/perilite 60/40 mix? I thought one of the advantages of hydro is you can use smaller pots than soil to get same or bigger growth.

I would not be using soil in the octopot but coco/perilite 60/40 mix.

Thoughts?


----------



## myke (Jul 28, 2021)

xIPhobiaIx said:


> I would not be using soil in the octopot but coco/perilite 60/40 mix.
> 
> Thoughts?


How would that work? Coco is drain to waste.Feed from top drain at the bottom.


----------



## xIPhobiaIx (Jul 28, 2021)

myke said:


> How would that work? Coco is drain to waste.Feed from top drain at the bottom.


On the octopot site they literally say to use a medium like coco with perilite in a 60/40 mix.

The water and roots just sit in the bottom and drink while the airy medium provides a breathable system and retains sole mosture to help prevent root rot, etc.


----------



## myke (Jul 28, 2021)

I dont believe them lol,Coco use pots in large trays like 4x4, bulkheads to drain runoff.You can rig up auto feeds but anyway the rest is easy.
Octo gimmick is what they should be called.


----------



## xIPhobiaIx (Jul 28, 2021)

myke said:


> I dont believe them lol,Coco use pots in large trays like 4x4, bulkheads to drain runoff.You can rig up auto feeds but anyway the rest is easy.
> Octo gimmick is what they should be called.


But there are grow journals and people on this site have had great success lol. My concern is not the method but the results in comparison to pure hydro.


----------



## myke (Jul 28, 2021)

xIPhobiaIx said:


> But there are grow journals and people on this site have had great success lol. My concern is not the method but the results in comparison to pure hydro.


Well pure hydro out grows them all,controlling node spacing is tough as they grow 1-2" a day.Pending on strain but most everything I grew needed training every other day.SOG I never tried in hydro,flood and drain was very popular back in the day.


----------



## myke (Jul 28, 2021)

Up date on my tomatoes. Added the clear plastic trellis to the ceiling. Cheap and just a few staples to hold it up


----------



## myke (Jul 28, 2021)

And the other sips.had a bunch of colas fall over. Doh! My bad should have had better trellises. Had lay down some plastic trellis and a bunch of wires to get everything back up. Continued with top dressing every week and some top water over it daily. They sure eat a lot.


----------



## weedstoner420 (Jul 28, 2021)

xIPhobiaIx said:


> Awesome information thank you, so 4-5ft tall
> plants might need more room than a coco/perilite 60/40 mix? I thought one of the advantages of hydro is you can use smaller pots than soil to get same or bigger growth.
> 
> I would not be using soil in the octopot but coco/perilite 60/40 mix.
> ...


What will you feed them in the 60/40 coco/perlite mix? I get the impression most of the SIPs in this thread use an organic soil or super soil of some kind, and have plain water in the res. A SIP with inert medium and nute water in the res is just a Hempy bucket, right?


----------



## xIPhobiaIx (Jul 28, 2021)

weedstoner420 said:


> What will you feed them in the 60/40 coco/perlite mix? I get the impression most of the SIPs in this thread use an organic soil or super soil of some kind, and have plain water in the res. A SIP with inert medium and nute water in the res is just a Hempy bucket, right?


Basically yeah except the octopots have a wider water base for cooling and oxygen purposes


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jul 28, 2021)

Ok guys, noob question. In a sip, since your adding water to the res and roots grow down into the res, im guessing for drinking purposes (for lack of a better term), should that water be ph'd since it's not getting buffered by the soil and is being used by the roots that are in it?


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## myke (Jul 28, 2021)

Im sending 7.2 ph water to all my sips.There all drinking a lot more now so bare roots must be sitting in this water.I run right from the tap so chlorine included.


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## myke (Jul 28, 2021)

I wonder, if I could get a sample from the res thats 24 hrs old, if the ph changed?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jul 28, 2021)

myke said:


> Im sending 7.2 ph water to all my sips.There all drinking a lot more now so bare roots must be sitting in this water.I run right from the tap so chlorine included.


Do you pH it to that, or is that your tap ph?


----------



## myke (Jul 28, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Do you pH it to that, or is that your tap ph?


 ya my tap is 7.2 ish


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jul 28, 2021)

myke said:


> ya my tap is 7.2 ish


Cool man. Thanks for the knowledge!


----------



## Polyuro (Jul 31, 2021)

My tap is 9.5ph and plants are happy.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 1, 2021)

Hey guys, quick question. If I want to water something into an earthbox from the top [i.e. compost tea, nutrient tea, etc.], I know I have to let the res go dry, but do I need to let the soil dry also? Seems like a stupid question, I know, but I'm asking anyway so I don't fuck anything up. Lol


----------



## myke (Aug 1, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Hey guys, quick question. If I want to water something into an earthbox from the top [i.e. compost tea, nutrient tea, etc.], I know I have to let the res go dry, but do I need to let the soil dry also? Seems like a stupid question, I know, but I'm asking anyway so I don't fuck anything up. Lol


My res stays full and I top water over my dry nutes almost daily,1 1/2 red solo cups worth with out worry of runoff.


----------



## myke (Aug 1, 2021)

myke said:


> My res stays full and I top water over my dry nutes almost daily,1 1/2 red solo cups worth with out worry of runoff.


Pending on sip I guess,I have 10g hdx totes.Also their root bound.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 1, 2021)

I just did about 3%to soil volume watered in on an empty res. Should I fill the res now? Also, how long can I let the res sit dry? Once roots are in there, they'll dry up no?
Edit: I see, your res stays full.


----------



## myke (Aug 1, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I just did about 3%to soil volume watered in on an empty res. Should I fill the res now? Also, how long can I let the res sit dry? Once roots are in there, they'll dry up no?
> Edit: I see, your res stays full.


Sure fill it,once roots get into the res I think keeping water in is good.
What sip do you have?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 1, 2021)

myke said:


> Sure fill it,once roots get into the res I think keeping water in is good.
> What sip do you have?


Earthbox


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 1, 2021)

myke said:


> Sure fill it,once roots get into the res I think keeping water in is good.
> What sip do you have?


How do you keep yours full? Is it automated?


----------



## myke (Aug 1, 2021)

Everyday at lights on I top them up,one plant I have drinks it dry in one day (7 litres)so theirs probably a lot of roots in the res.Another is a slow gal takes only a litre or two a day.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 1, 2021)

myke said:


> Everyday at lights on I top them up,one plant I have drinks it dry in one day (7 litres)so theirs probably a lot of roots in the res.Another is a slow gal takes only a litre or two a day.


Cool man. Thanks for the help!


----------



## Hash Hound (Aug 3, 2021)

I peeled off the 5g bag of my latest wick/sip and noticed it was more packed with roots on the upper half than the lower half. And the lower half was real moist. Maybe one wick instead of two next time?

The tomato sips outside, the deli cup caught up to the wick both are 64" and have been hard to manage they are so top heavy and both are loaded with plenty of ripening toms.


----------



## myke (Aug 3, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> I peeled off the 5g bag of my latest wick/sip and noticed it was more packed with roots on the upper half than the lower half. And the lower half was real moist. Maybe one wick instead of two next time?
> 
> The tomato sips outside, the deli cup caught up to the wick both are 64" and have been hard to manage they are so top heavy and both are loaded with plenty of ripening toms.


I do notice in my 10g sips that if I plant a bigger girl, 2mo veg she takes off in about a weeks time after planting ,roots hit the res(1 wick) then flip and wow.If I plant a smaller 1 mo veg she puts roots out on the top,doesn't take off during stretch.
My next round Ill veg longer until I get water roots..


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## Hash Hound (Aug 3, 2021)

I vegged that 5g 7 weeks.


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## myke (Aug 3, 2021)

Having water roots before flip is the key.I notice the earthboxes will have water roots quickly.Planting closer to the wick may help in my sips.My next round Im gonna try a 27 ga tote with 2 wicks 2plants.


----------



## myke (Aug 3, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> I vegged that 5g 7 weeks.


How much did she drink a day?


----------



## Hash Hound (Aug 3, 2021)

myke said:


> How much did she drink a day?


 Close to a quart, I'd give the res a gallon about every 3 or 4 days.


----------



## myke (Aug 3, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> Close to a quart, I'd give the res a gallon about every 3 or 4 days.


Thats not much,mine do a gallon a day.


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## myke (Aug 3, 2021)

Here’s last round. During stretch. Rez was empty every morning. About a gallon.


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## Hash Hound (Aug 3, 2021)

She wasn't a very big plant and yielded 2oz, the last 7g sip I did was drinking about 3/4 g a day. and yielded 100g


----------



## myke (Aug 3, 2021)

More roots = more fruits.So true.


----------



## Polyuro (Aug 4, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> I peeled off the 5g bag of my latest wick/sip and noticed it was more packed with roots on the upper half than the lower half. And the lower half was real moist. Maybe one wick instead of two next time?
> 
> The tomato sips outside, the deli cup caught up to the wick both are 64" and have been hard to manage they are so top heavy and both are loaded with plenty of ripening toms.


That sounds very plausible. 

It may just be the pheno. Short bushier plants like to have shallower rooter depths that spread out. 5gal buckets are tall and not wide like totes/boxes. 

IMO I will not run a bucket sip again.


----------



## myke (Aug 6, 2021)

I’ve had few people DM me on or about my sips. Lots of questions that are all answered in this thread. I’m no organic wizard but I suggest people read this thread like I did last year. Once you grasp how it works it’s really not that complicated. I admit when I first read about sips it was like wahhhhht!!! Lol. So read on. Lots of knowledge in here. All I did was copy what’s here. I use the Gaia green and top dress with it. 10-15 gallon sips can take 20 ounces of water without worry of runoff. Some even like to spray water on top so it’s nice and even. Anyway. Great thread here. Read on. Sips are the shit!!


----------



## myke (Aug 6, 2021)

I’m in the middle of some construction in my room and I’ll be harvesting and get the sips reloaded. So I’ll take some pics as I go. Will take a few days.
So here’s a 10 g home depo sip. I cut the edges off the lid so they come off and on easy. Can also run tie wires to the lip edge and still lift the lid. Check out the dirt. This was a small plant so it only needed water every 3-4 days. Didn’t top dress much and only top watering once like a month ago. Soil stays moist ewc stays fluffy. Really important and it’s why sips work so well so lids or covers are a must.


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## myke (Aug 6, 2021)

Now this top part of the soil is full of life. I’ll scrape this off and put it on top of the new sip. Lots hypo Myles’s bugs in there and a ton of others that I have no idea what they are lol.


----------



## myke (Aug 7, 2021)

Busy day yesterday. Removed the wall that separated my veg and flower area. A bitch to do with plants in. Got it done though. Wow more room!! Love it. Had to rearrange another area for a new but smaller veg space.
Plants need another week so will be working around them till then.


----------



## Satch12 (Aug 7, 2021)

Thanks for the inspiration all. Got these two patio pickers about a week ago. Transplanted to one gallons today to sex and then into the sips, I’m very excited!


----------



## myke (Aug 10, 2021)

Dumping ,cleaning and more cleaning.


----------



## myke (Aug 11, 2021)

Finally some progress, plants hung and out of the way. Room disinfected and off we go.Gave them a good dose of Mycos. My plants were in 2 gallon pots. So this time I planted them lower in the sip. Closer to the wick. Will see if that kicks them up. Finally first time in years I have 4 plants the same height.


----------



## GrassBurner (Aug 12, 2021)

Here's what 2 weeks in a sip will getcha  If yall didn't know any better, you'd think I know what I'm doing 

July 29


August 12


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 12, 2021)

myke said:


> Thats not much,mine do a gallon a day.


Mines doing a gallon a day right now too. Has been for about a week and a half.


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 12, 2021)

I'd post a picture but I can't seem to get them to load.


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 12, 2021)

There we go!


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 12, 2021)

She's about a month in the earthbox but 2 months from clone. She normally doesn't grow big or fast, but she's huge in comparison in the earthbox.


----------



## myke (Aug 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> There we go!


So that’s a 15g earth box?? Why did you plant at the end?


----------



## myke (Aug 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> She's about a month in the earthbox but 2 months from clone. She normally doesn't grow big or fast, but she's huge in comparison in the earthbox.


Yeah once you go SIP there’s no going back. Lol.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 12, 2021)

myke said:


> So that’s a 15g earth box?? Why did you plant at the end?


Nah, they say 2 cu.ft. but I put 1 cu.ft. in mine and it's about 3/4 full. 
I planted to one side so when I plant my next one, I can either go middle or other side. I thought I heard it doesn't really matter where in the sip you put it.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 12, 2021)

myke said:


> Yeah once you go SIP there’s no going back. Lol.


I've done dwc, and so far I see a lot of similarities in growth rate. I can't wait to see what happens when I flip her!


----------



## Soul Dwella (Aug 15, 2021)

Jesusgrowsmygrass said:


> I’ve had a similar idea to that product but i feel I can make these out of four common items one might have on hand already.
> 
> One saucer, one saucer stand, and two fabric pots. I was thinking about setting it up with one fabric pot for the soil, one for the wick and the reservoir is the bottom saucer, with the saucer stand in the reservoir with the wick.


How is this setup working out for you?


----------



## Alter Jean (Aug 15, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> She's about a month in the earthbox but 2 months from clone. She normally doesn't grow big or fast, but she's huge in comparison in the earthbox.


That's a nice shot


----------



## myke (Aug 16, 2021)

Toms just keep growing. If we get a nice fall these will go another 6’ yet. I already need to add more trellis.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 16, 2021)

Day 3 flower. I swear I see the stretch coming on already. She definitely looks like something is changing! Is there too much vegetation?


----------



## myke (Aug 16, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 3 flower. I swear I see the stretch coming on already. She definitely looks like something is changing! Is there too much vegetation?
> 
> View attachment 4966674
> View attachment 4966675


Like a hydro plant eh? Ha, Id trim some off, gonna grow a foot yet anyway.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 16, 2021)

myke said:


> Like a hydro plant eh? Ha, Id trim some off, gonna grow a foot yet anyway.


Yea it's pretty crazy! I've already trimmed a shit ton off of it. It would be much bigger! So far I like sips a lot. I'm just afraid she's gonna get too big and run out of steam before she's finished. The earthbox is cool but I think I should've flipped her sooner because I don't think it's going to be big enough. I'm hoping I'm wrong though. Lol


----------



## myke (Aug 16, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea it's pretty crazy! I've already trimmed a shit ton off of it. It would be much bigger! So far I like sips a lot. I'm just afraid she's gonna get too big and run out of steam before she's finished. The earthbox is cool but I think I should've flipped her sooner because I don't think it's going to be big enough. I'm hoping I'm wrong though. Lol


Plenty big enough,15g right? Give her some food she'll want it in 3 weeks.


----------



## myke (Aug 16, 2021)

double post,


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 16, 2021)

myke said:


> Plenty big enough,15g right? Give her some food she'll want it in 3 weeks.


7 gallon. 1 cu.ft. I fed her at flip with some build a flower.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 16, 2021)

myke said:


> Plenty big enough,15g right? Give her some food she'll want it in 3 weeks.


I have some Neptune's Harvest fish fertilizer and ewc I'm gonna make a tea with tomorrow.


----------



## myke (Aug 16, 2021)

Mine are just a little behind yours. Be 10 days and I’ll flip.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 16, 2021)

myke said:


> Mine are just a little behind yours. Be 10 days and I’ll flip. View attachment 4966749


Nice! See yours were a lil smaller than mine. I tried to fill the net before flip. I still have a lot of room for more food though. I'm gonna try to no till it though, and I don't wanna put too much on this run so I have room for the next one. I might have to recycle this one and start new on the next. What size are your sips? Res and soil?


----------



## Alter Jean (Aug 16, 2021)

myke said:


> Mine are just a little behind yours. Be 10 days and I’ll flip. View attachment 4966749


Looking nice Myke. You ever ran 2 a tote?


----------



## myke (Aug 16, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Nice! See yours were a lil smaller than mine. I tried to fill the net before flip. I still have a lot of room for more food though. I'm gonna try to no till it though, and I don't wanna put too much on this run so I have room for the next one. I might have to recycle this one and start new on the next. What size are your sips? Res and soil?


2 10 gallon totes,risers are 4" tall.8 litres of water they hold ish,over flow hole is 3/4" down. so 3.25" of water capacity.I have about 8 gallons of soil now,ill be adding more as time goes on..


----------



## myke (Aug 16, 2021)

Alter Jean said:


> Looking nice Myke. You ever ran 2 a tote?


This winter,the sips from the tomatoes have 2 wicks.Ill use those.


----------



## Alter Jean (Aug 16, 2021)

myke said:


> This winter,the sips from the tomatoes have 2 wicks.Ill use those.


Wonderful. I'll be watching out for that. Love me some good sips.
Coffee Sips. Sips of Hennessey. Big sips of pounds of kush.

You name it I'll sip it.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 16, 2021)

myke said:


> 2 10 gallon totes,risers are 4" tall.8 litres of water they hold ish,over flow hole is 3/4" down. so 3.25" of water capacity.I have about 8 gallons of soil now,ill be adding more as time goes on..


Ok cool. Are you running them no till? I believe I seen pics of your Rootball so I'm guessing no?


----------



## myke (Aug 16, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Ok cool. Are you running them no till? I believe I seen pics of your Rootball so I'm guessing no?


Was gonna try one but didnt,could just dump out cut all the roots and repack the wick.Just cut out a solo cup size around old stem and plant.Ive just been taking out the big roots chopping it up a bit and re amending, let cook again for next cycle.I have 80 gallons now with two cycles on 1/2 of them. This grow is dirt from my first try at sips.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 16, 2021)

myke said:


> Was gonna try one but didnt,could just dump out cut all the roots and repack the wick.Just cut out a solo cup size around old stem and plant.Ive just been taking out the big roots chopping it up a bit and re amending, let cook again for next cycle.I have 80 gallons now with two cycles on 1/2 of them. This grow is dirt from my first try at sips.


Well your grow looks good! Hopefully mine turns out just as well!


----------



## myke (Aug 17, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Ok cool. Are you running them no till? I believe I seen pics of your Rootball so I'm guessing no?


EB wick is different then mine,not sure how no till would work.Whats your plan?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 17, 2021)

myke said:


> EB wick is different then mine,not sure how no till would work.Whats your plan?


Once I harvest, I'll add a cup of Craft Blend, throw on some cover crop and a thin layer of straw. Let it grow out a couple weeks, chop the cover crop and transplant a cut into it.


----------



## myke (Aug 17, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Once I harvest, I'll add a cup of Craft Blend, throw on some cover crop and a thin layer of straw. Let it grow out a couple weeks, chop the cover crop and transplant a cut into it.


If I had extra sips Id try that also,sounds like a good plan.Worries me what happens to the roots in the res though?I can remove mine then put back without disturbing it too much.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 17, 2021)

myke said:


> If I had extra sips Id try that also,sounds like a good plan.Worries me what happens to the roots in the res though?I can remove mine then put back without disturbing it too much.


Yea I was worried about that too, but I've been lead to believe that it's not an issue, though I've never gotten a definitive answer. Other guys are doing it though. Maybe throw some em5 in the res? Jeremy at bas is just starting his 3rd run in an eb and he says he doesn't add em5 to his res. I'm gonna have to try to ask bas directly.


----------



## Xsan (Aug 17, 2021)

what are all the sippers doing IPM wise? 

Im getting ready to give a go with bas3.0, cowoco, bus, craft blend, kashi, and em1 but gotta figure out what i am going to do for temp and humidity as well as ipm. Jeremy says between the soil and compost their should be some beneficial insects but I would like to add a few other elements to it.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 17, 2021)

Xsan said:


> what are all the sippers doing IPM wise?
> 
> Im getting ready to give a go with bas3.0, cowoco, bus, craft blend, kashi, and em1 but gotta figure out what i am going to do for temp and humidity as well as ipm. Jeremy says between the soil and compost their should be some beneficial insects but I would like to add a few other elements to it.


I just let the beneficials do the work until they can't keep up. I usually just use Dr zymes and it clears what pests I've gotten up. It did fry the leaves on my ghost train haze though, so be careful if you use it. Spray a leaf or two before the whole plant.

Edit:cowoco should have plenty of beneficials.


----------



## myke (Aug 17, 2021)

My worm bin supplies a good amount of hypo myles,spraying the surface in the sips with water seams to bring on orgies lol.


----------



## Xsan (Aug 17, 2021)

hopefully wont have to top water, going to do the garbage bag cover. not the orgie im interested in lol


----------



## Tim Fox (Aug 17, 2021)

Xsan said:


> hopefully wont have to top water, going to do the garbage bag cover. not the orgie im interested in lol


i use a garbage bag to cover mine also now


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 17, 2021)

Xsan said:


> hopefully wont have to top water, going to do the garbage bag cover. not the orgie im interested in lol


You'll still wanna water some things in from the top. Compost/ nutrient teas, sprouted seed tea, etc.


----------



## Xsan (Aug 17, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> i use a garbage bag to cover mine also now



i thought you were always using the cover, or was it just for your outdoor tomatoes?


----------



## Xsan (Aug 17, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> You'll still wanna water some things in from the top. Compost/ nutrient teas, sprouted seed tea, etc.



certainly cant argue that.


----------



## Tim Fox (Aug 17, 2021)

Xsan said:


> i thought you were always using the cover, or was it just for your outdoor tomatoes?


i used the cover that came with the earthbox and growbox until they became too busted up to use anymore, then i went to garbage bags they work the same,, i just clip them to the edge now


----------



## Tim Fox (Aug 17, 2021)

I just chopped down my 4 outdoor autos and hung them in my shed , next grow is October 1st in my sip , going to do two winter grows this year


----------



## Xsan (Aug 17, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> i used the cover that came with the earthbox and growbox until they became too busted up to use anymore, then i went to garbage bags they work the same,, i just clip them to the edge now





Tim Fox said:


> I just chopped down my 4 outdoor autos and hung them in my shed , next grow is October 1st in my sip , going to do two winter grows this yearView attachment 4967193



Thank you for the clarification and good to know!

As always, looks like another great endorsement from you. They should be paying you for these by now!


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 17, 2021)

Xsan said:


> what are all the sippers doing IPM wise?
> 
> Im getting ready to give a go with bas3.0, cowoco, bus, craft blend, kashi, and em1 but gotta figure out what i am going to do for temp and humidity as well as ipm. Jeremy says between the soil and compost their should be some beneficial insects but I would like to add a few other elements to it.


Day 4 of flower. I'm using pretty much the same as you except I have grokashi, build a flower, build a bloom, and no em1.


----------



## Xsan (Aug 17, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 4 of flower. I'm using pretty much the same as you except I have grokashi, build a flower, build a bloom, and no em1.
> 
> View attachment 4967297
> View attachment 4967298



looking good, Im pumped to give this a go and be back in the garden. figuring out how I am going to handle temp and humidity but hopefully will be starting by this weekend


----------



## myke (Aug 17, 2021)

Playing around with set up with my new space. First was to jam it all at one end so the lights would be most efficient. Second pic. I just went the long way to make it easier to get at the plants. May have to add more light .much easier to work on the plants with the first pic


----------



## Xsan (Aug 17, 2021)

myke said:


> Playing around with set up with my new space. First was to jam it all at one end so the lights would be most efficient. Second pic. I just went the long way to make it easier to get at the plants. May have to add more light .much easier to work on the plants with the first pic View attachment 4967416



looks like a win either way to me!


----------



## myke (Aug 18, 2021)

Xsan said:


> looks like a win either way to me!


Im a tall guy and having to crawl around is getting old.Those Mars 250's are new to me so not sure how they'll perform in this configuration.


----------



## Alter Jean (Aug 18, 2021)

Wicks


----------



## Alter Jean (Aug 18, 2021)

Do you speak SIP?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 18, 2021)

Alter Jean said:


> View attachment 4967950
> View attachment 4967951
> View attachment 4967952
> View attachment 4967953
> ...


Nice!


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 18, 2021)

Anybody ever seen anything like this?


----------



## Alter Jean (Aug 19, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Nice!


Thank you! Was a test 






The holes there on the leaves are from the birds landing on the petals / eating little bugs or trying to get little water drops with their beaks


----------



## myke (Aug 19, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Anybody ever seen anything like this?


Did you figure it out?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 19, 2021)

Alter Jean said:


> Thank you! Was a test
> 
> View attachment 4968419
> View attachment 4968420
> ...


Looks like a successful test!


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 19, 2021)

myke said:


> Did you figure it out?


It may be root blisters. I'm gonna keep an eye on it and see if it progresses!


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 20, 2021)

So I just watered in to the top, a compost tea I made from Neptune's Harvest fish fertilizer, and build a flower. I come back a lil while later and I see this....



Anyone know what they are?


----------



## Alter Jean (Aug 20, 2021)

Holy... 

Were they swimming?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 20, 2021)

Alter Jean said:


> Holy...
> 
> Were they swimming?


I reckon so. I only did 5% tea to soil volume.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 20, 2021)

Alter Jean said:


> Holy...
> 
> Were they swimming?


I'm guessing there was too much moisture and they ran out quick, fast, and in a hurry! No more watering in from the top.


----------



## Alter Jean (Aug 20, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I'm guessing there was too much modus and they ran out quick, fast, and in a hurry! No more watering in from the top.


Was going to ask if they are dead in the picture? I have had unidentified swimmers develop in a few test buckets outside.
They reminded me of tadpools though. 

Agreed on the top watering statement. Keep it sippin'


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 20, 2021)

Alter Jean said:


> Was going to ask if they are dead in the picture? I have had unidentified swimmers develop in a few test buckets outside.
> They reminded me of tadpools though.
> 
> Agreed on the top watering statement. Keep it sippin'


No not dead, but running out of the box. I dunno what they are. I had a shit ton of soil mites a couple weeks ago, but they were white. These are black and longer.

I was just trying to add some biology and food for the microbes but I guess I didn't need too. All these different insects in organic soil are overwhelming. Lol


----------



## Alter Jean (Aug 20, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> No not dead, but running out of the box. I dunno what they are. I had a shit ton of soil mites a couple weeks ago, but they were white. These are black and longer.
> 
> I was just trying to add some biology and food for the microbes but I guess I didn't need too. All these different insects in organic soil are overwhelming. Lol


Got it.. Haha I hear you on the overwhelming part. I'm not as high tech on the stuff as some of you guys to be honest. 
Miles is about as much as I will go for the bennies. And even then I am not adding them ..

I plan on doing a fully loaded bed one day though! I'll probably be asking you guys questions at that time


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 20, 2021)

Alter Jean said:


> Got it.. Haha I hear you on the overwhelming part. I'm not as high tech on the stuff as some of you guys to be honest.
> Miles is about as much as I will go for the bennies. And even then I am not adding them ..
> 
> I plan on doing a fully loaded bed one day though! I'll probably be asking you guys questions at that time


Oh I'm sure you already know everything you need to. Maybe just some bud identification, but I believe most need help with that.


----------



## Alter Jean (Aug 20, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Oh I'm sure you already know everything you need to. Maybe just some bud identification, but I believe most need help with that.


Always open ears to new ideas though. Once you stop learning ... * evil music plays *

Anyways If you do find out what those are lmk. Just out of curiousity.
Was thinking maybe they are the grown version of what you saw a few weeks back


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 20, 2021)

Alter Jean said:


> Always open ears to new ideas though. Once you stop learning ... * evil music plays *
> 
> Anyways If you do find out what those are lmk. Just out of curiousity.
> Was thinking maybe they are the grown version of what you saw a few weeks back


It's possible. I was thinking rove beetles, but until I scope them, I'm not 100 on that. She still looks ok though.....



She's not stretching as much as I thought she would but it should make it easier to control her.


----------



## Alter Jean (Aug 20, 2021)

Filling out like a champ.. Nice canopy

Did you mention the strain? Pretty narrow leavezz


----------



## Soul Dwella (Aug 20, 2021)

myke said:


> Little update on my 10 gallon sips. Adding Gaia at 4 tbls a week. I’m at day 20 of 12/12 so mixed 50/50 bloom veg. Going on nicely. Some drink more then others but no problems.View attachment 4932527View attachment 4932528View attachment 4932529View attachment 4932530


so to confirm, you're top dressing 4 tbs per 10 gal sip, every week?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 20, 2021)

Alter Jean said:


> Filling out like a champ.. Nice canopy
> 
> Did you mention the strain? Pretty narrow leavezz


I got a cut of it from my buddy. He calls it the riddler, cuz he can't remember what it is. Lol.... he also said it was indica.....I disagree. Lol


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 20, 2021)

Alter Jean said:


> Always open ears to new ideas though. Once you stop learning ... * evil music plays *
> 
> Anyways If you do find out what those are lmk. Just out of curiousity.
> Was thinking maybe they are the grown version of what you saw a few weeks back


I scoped them....





Recognize them at all?


----------



## myke (Aug 21, 2021)

Soul Dwella said:


> so to confirm, you're top dressing 4 tbs per 10 gal sip, every week?


Yes at that time,bigger plants need more once in the stretch.Im 9 days in with my current run they'll get their first feed this weekend at least 4tbls of 444.Will continue ea week.Keep in mind plants are 2 months old when they get put into the sip.


----------



## myke (Aug 21, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I scoped them....
> View attachment 4969344
> View attachment 4969345
> View attachment 4969346
> ...


I have the same,no idea what they are.


----------



## myke (Aug 21, 2021)

Black soilder fly larva maybe?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 21, 2021)

myke said:


> Black soilder fly larva maybe?


Springtail larva! They're beneficial but in large numbers, they'll do root damage.


----------



## myke (Aug 21, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Springtail larva! They're beneficial but in large numbers, they'll do root damage.


Mine lived or seamed to live under my tote lid,jumpy buggers.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 21, 2021)

myke said:


> Mine lived or seamed to live under my tote lid,jumpy buggers.


I believe they live at the surface. I watered in, and turned around, a min later turned back around and there they were. Lol


----------



## myke (Aug 21, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I believe they live at the surface. I watered in, and turned around, a min later turned back around and there they were. Lol


Lay a yellow sticky on the soil,youll see just how many there are.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 21, 2021)

myke said:


> Lay a yellow sticky on the soil,youll see just how many there are.


I probably really don't wanna know. Lol


----------



## myke (Aug 21, 2021)

Sipping along. Starting to grow quickly now. Added a trellis to try and steer them around. First pic is a Northern Lights.she’s in straight promix and Gaia 444. Been about 5 days now. Filled it first time today.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 21, 2021)

myke said:


> Sipping along. Starting to grow quickly now. Added a trellis to try and steer them around. First pic is a Northern Lights.she’s in straight promix and Gaia 444. Been about 5 days now. Filled it first time today. View attachment 4969569


They're looking great man!


----------



## myke (Aug 21, 2021)

The rest have been 10 days since transplant. Drinking steadily. Will add a top dress and water it in. Noticed the tips of new growth yellow a little?? Can only think it’s from these lights. New to me so perhaps too close at 20” so I’ve lifted them. Will flip the light in a couple of days.


----------



## myke (Aug 21, 2021)

Shooting for an even canopy,will top a few ,super crop a few and see.I can gauge their growth now with the trellis.


----------



## myke (Aug 21, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> They're looking great man!


Thx,Any thoughts on why new growth has yellow tips? Seams down lower theirs none so thinking lights.I know the soil is hot so maybe thats it.Il just topdress one and see what happens in a couple days.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 21, 2021)

myke said:


> The rest have been 10 days since transplant. Drinking steadily. Will add a top dress and water it in. Noticed the tips of new growth yellow a little?? Can only think it’s from these lights. New to me so perhaps too close at 20” so I’ve lifted them. Will flip the light in a couple of days. View attachment 4969573View attachment 4969574View attachment 4969575


Could be from the light. Mine usually lightens the whole leaf, but it could be strain dependent.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 21, 2021)

myke said:


> Thx,Any thoughts on why new growth has yellow tips? Seams down lower theirs none so thinking lights.I know the soil is hot so maybe thats it.Il just topdress one and see what happens in a couple days.


If it's just the tips of the new growth at the top, if bet it's from the light.


----------



## myke (Aug 21, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> If it's just the tips of the new growth at the top, if bet it's from the light.


I rasied them to 26" full power,dimmer is on the underside of driver so may have to remove them to try dimming.Crazy design.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 21, 2021)

myke said:


> I rasied them to 26" full power,dimmer is on the underside of driver so may have to remove them to try dimming.Crazy design.


Yea those are a PITA. You raised them 6". It should be good.


----------



## Alter Jean (Aug 21, 2021)

Looking stellar bros. Got me on my way to buy a few bags of coco now..


----------



## Robar (Aug 21, 2021)

myke said:


> Busy day yesterday. Removed the wall that separated my veg and flower area. A bitch to do with plants in. Got it done though. Wow more room!! Love it. Had to rearrange another area for a new but smaller veg space.
> Plants need another week so will be working around them till then.
> View attachment 4960027View attachment 4960028View attachment 4960031


Lazy Saturday so I jumped on this very interesting thread and have spent hours reading and researching all over the web. I can definitely see some future changes happening in my grow. Thanks to you and ALL who share info on RIU. 

With that said and all the picks of your flower room so far I wanted to congratulate you on the expanded flower room. Your girls are looking fantastic and that speaks volumes.


----------



## myke (Aug 21, 2021)

Alter Jean said:


> Looking stellar bros. Got me on my way to buy a few bags of coco now..


Coco? For your coffee ?


----------



## myke (Aug 21, 2021)

Robar said:


> Lazy Saturday so I jumped on this very interesting thread and have spent hours reading and researching all over the web. I can definitely see some future changes happening in my grow. Thanks to you and ALL who share info on RIU.
> 
> With that said and all the picks of your flower room so far I wanted to congratulate you on the expanded flower room. Your girls are looking fantastic and that speaks volumes.


For us guys and gals that dont have time to be checking pots the sips are the shit.You realize quickly what benefits perfect watering brings.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 21, 2021)

Day 7 flower.....


----------



## myke (Aug 21, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 7 flower.....
> 
> View attachment 4969909
> View attachment 4969910
> View attachment 4969911


They'll be a foot taller next week.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 21, 2021)

myke said:


> They'll be a foot taller next week.


I was expecting her to have gotten taller than she did this first week. We'll see what the next brings.


----------



## Soul Dwella (Aug 22, 2021)

Thought I'd show what I put together from what I had laying around and with I've learned from this thread. Makeshift SIP, plants in 3 gal fabric pot, on a plant riser covered with the bottom of a cut down 7 gal fabric pot in a large saucer. The 7 gal fabric pot was cut down to drape into the saucer. I also added a packed mound of perlite in the center of the riser to add to the wicking. I added the air stones to the saucer as well to keep everything aerated. I'm topping the saucer twice a day to about 1/2 inch from the bottom of the pot. 

Seems to be working very well! Thinking about how to upgrade for the next round! Earthbox, CityPicker, DIY tote, who knows! Thanks for all the info provided, and happy growing!


----------



## myke (Aug 22, 2021)

Cool,cover up your dirt so it stays moist.


----------



## Soul Dwella (Aug 22, 2021)

myke said:


> Cool,cover up your dirt so it stays moist.


will do. Some kind of plastic bag, right?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 22, 2021)

myke said:


> Cool,cover up your dirt so it stays moist.


Garbage bags work


----------



## Roy O'Bannon (Aug 22, 2021)

I built a sip ( I hope ) 
5 gal bucket with a perforated solo cup surrounded by chunky pearlitle in the bottom.
Put a clear tube in the side so I can see the water level. 
Packed the solo cup and rest of the bucket with potting soil (Berger BM7, local nursery carries it ) Mixed in a bit of dry recharge.

Right now I have an empty solo cup in the top of the bucket to hold a place for the rooted out seedling when its ready. 
Seems to be wicking nicely. Without a plant anyway.


----------



## myke (Aug 22, 2021)

Soul Dwella said:


> will do. Some kind of plastic bag, right?


Straw works but its messy,moist ewc stays fluffy,dried up it dies and is like cement.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 22, 2021)

myke said:


> Straw works but its messy,moist ewc stays fluffy,dried up it dies and is like cement.


Imo straw is better for pots, beds. Garbage bag, orca plastic will work. Something that won't let light thru.


----------



## myke (Aug 22, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Imo straw is better for pots, beds. Garbage bag, orca plastic will work. Something that won't let light thru.


What about air?Can you seal it off too much?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 22, 2021)

myke said:


> What about air?Can you seal it off too much?


Well yea, you don't want it airtight. Lol


----------



## myke (Aug 22, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Well yea, you don't want it airtight. Lol


Well that’s a good tip for newbies. I mean from some of the stuff you see around here. You have to tell them not to stick their hand in the fire.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 22, 2021)

myke said:


> Well that’s a good tip for newbies. I mean from some of the stuff you see around here. You have to tell them not to stick their hand in the fire.


You're absolutely right. Anybody reading this far into the thread, who doesn't already know, roots breath oxygen. Don't seal them in! Lol


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 22, 2021)

Day 8 of flower......





I'm starting to see pistils popping out! Just barely so it's hard to get a pic.


----------



## myke (Aug 22, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 8 of flower......
> 
> View attachment 4970590
> View attachment 4970591
> ...


So compare your plant to some of the others you see.If I didnt see the sip Id say thats a hydro plant.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 22, 2021)

myke said:


> So compare your plant to some of the others you see.If I didnt see the sip Id say thats a hydro plant.


For sure. I'm comparing it to the dwc plant I grew and I see a lot of similarities in growth rate. I dunno if I could've filled the scrog without doing hydro or the sip. These pics are from going into week 3 last years hydro. It stretched a shit ton more but didn't have much more mass.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 22, 2021)

This is what I've got going on now. I started the hydro about a month behind the sip. 


This pic makes me very happy! Lol


----------



## GrassBurner (Aug 22, 2021)

I noticed pretty similar growth rates in my one dwc grow, as I do in the sips. Biggest difference was the amount of work


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 22, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I noticed pretty similar growth rates in my one dwc grow, as I do in the sips. Biggest difference was the amount of work


For sure. It's kinda worth it though. Dwc grows monster plants!


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 22, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I noticed pretty similar growth rates in my one dwc grow, as I do in the sips. Biggest difference was the amount of work


Unless you mean the sip Is more work. Lol


----------



## ilovereggae (Aug 23, 2021)

I'm working on setting up another 4x4 and had some ideas for DIY this time instead of buying more earthbox Jr's. they work great, but in my planting style I have to go 2 per sip. the long rectangle footprint also makes them harder to move around. also, the overflow hole means if I need to move them while they are full, I manage to spill and make a mess no matter how careful I am.

Grabbed 9 of these from my local hardware shop.





Amazon.com - Rubbermaid Roughneck️ Storage Totes 3 Gal Pack of 6 Rugged, Reusable, Set of Storage Containers -


Amazon.com - Rubbermaid Roughneck️ Storage Totes 3 Gal Pack of 6 Rugged, Reusable, Set of Storage Containers -



www.amazon.com





First question, are these safe to use? they are LDPE which is a softer plastic. seems like it will be fine but wanted your all feed back before I proceed.


My plan is to use these "plant warrior" 5 gal pots on top, with another smaller square 1/2 gallon pot upside down (with holes drilled all over it) zip tied to the bottom to serve as its "foot". This would then sit inside of a hole I cut in the lid of the tote. 

instead of a drain hole , I'm going to use a small valve attachment on each one so I can connect a drain line to each tote. this way I can run all the overflow into a bucket and easily carry it away instead of mopping everything up. nice and clean and less humidity spikes after I top off the totes.

add a 1" pvc fill pipe and I think this will be a nice little sip that can be easily moved w built in handles,, has enough soil in the pot for a full water only run, has an easily removeable lid to check root growth and/or clean the res as desired. 

change my mind. have the day off work and going to either bang these out, or give up and go buy some city pickers from lowes.


----------



## myke (Aug 23, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I'm working on setting up another 4x4 and had some ideas for DIY this time instead of buying more earthbox Jr's. they work great, but in my planting style I have to go 2 per sip. the long rectangle footprint also makes them harder to move around. also, the overflow hole means if I need to move them while they are full, I manage to spill and make a mess no matter how careful I am.
> 
> Grabbed 9 of these from my local hardware shop.
> 
> ...


Like this? Would work just fine. Lid on the tote needs to be light sealed though. Not sure how that would work.


----------



## Grazzmon (Aug 23, 2021)

Howdy! I have a 2 week old auto seedling going in a Grobucket using coco, just wondering ,on average, how long it takes for the plant to start drawing water? I've been top watering/feeding so far but I filled the bucket a few days ago and the level hasn't changed at all yet.

Thanks,
Grazz


----------



## ilovereggae (Aug 23, 2021)

these are expensive but considering they have the built


myke said:


> Like this? Would work just fine. Lid on the tote needs to be light sealed though. Not sure how that would work. View attachment 4971014


exactly! the bottom "foot" sits an inch below my lid in my design tho. I have been trying to figure out the best way to create a "gasket" seal, and figure cutting it a few mm smaller than the pot would give it a nice tight squeeze in fit, and then just running gorilla tape around the seal of the tote lid and pot should do the trick.


----------



## ilovereggae (Aug 23, 2021)

Grazzmon said:


> Howdy! I have a 2 week old auto seedling going in a Grobucket using coco, just wondering ,on average, how long it takes for the plant to start drawing water? I've been top watering/feeding so far but I filled the bucket a few days ago and the level hasn't changed at all yet.
> 
> Thanks,
> Grazz


you will know  one day the plant will just have a ton of new growth and then your life will change forever.


----------



## myke (Aug 23, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> these are expensive but considering they have the built
> 
> exactly! the bottom "foot" sits an inch below my lid in my design tho. I have been trying to figure out the best way to create a "gasket" seal, and figure cutting it a few mm smaller than the pot would give it a nice tight squeeze in fit, and then just running gorilla tape around the seal of the tote lid and pot should do the trick.


Yes. So you have to find a tote that works hight wise with your pot and riser. Would give a big Rez for water. As you said a nice friction fit would be all that’s needed. A little light in is ok. My totes let a little in.


----------



## myke (Aug 23, 2021)

Grazzmon said:


> Howdy! I have a 2 week old auto seedling going in a Grobucket using coco, just wondering ,on average, how long it takes for the plant to start drawing water? I've been top watering/feeding so far but I filled the bucket a few days ago and the level hasn't changed at all yet.
> 
> Thanks,
> Grazz


My soil even when wet will wick water. One way to tell is use a moisture meter to see if the bottom part is wet.


----------



## myke (Aug 23, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> these are expensive but considering they have the built
> 
> exactly! the bottom "foot" sits an inch below my lid in my design tho. I have been trying to figure out the best way to create a "gasket" seal, and figure cutting it a few mm smaller than the pot would give it a nice tight squeeze in fit, and then just running gorilla tape around the seal of the tote lid and pot should do the trick.


If you have a drill press you can make a hole saw to get the perfect size.


----------



## ilovereggae (Aug 23, 2021)

myke said:


> Yes. So you have to find a tote that works hight wise with your pot and riser. Would give a big Rez for water. As you said a nice friction fit would be all that’s needed. A little light in is ok. My totes let a little in.


I guess my biggest question is if I can use those Rubbermaid totes from my previous post, as they are LDPE plastic (but they don't specifically day food safe/BPA free).

Is there concern of leaching plastic toxins into my res by using these? or do I need to find some better totes that will be safe to use.



myke said:


> If you have a drill press you can make a hole saw to get the perfect size.


on my list of wants/needs. I don't have much of a workshop and only have a little shared outdoor courtyard to work in on weekends. but that would be awesome.


----------



## myke (Aug 23, 2021)

The bolt fits in the drill. The screw is the cutter. By moving the screw farther out the hole gets bigger. Kinda red neck but works. The screw just scrapes the plastic away so go slow and clamp everything down lol.


----------



## myke (Aug 23, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I guess my biggest question is if I can use those Rubbermaid totes from my previous post, as they are LDPE plastic (but they don't specifically day food safe/BPA free).
> 
> Is there concern of leaching plastic toxins into my res by using these? or do I need to find some better totes that will be sage to use.
> 
> ...


Good question ,my hdx home depo totes are ok, cant remember but I did some cheching a while ago.No idea where i read it.


----------



## myke (Aug 23, 2021)

The problem with hdx totes is the bumpy lid,you need a hole saw,cutting by hand they crack.


----------



## myke (Aug 23, 2021)

Cold outside today. Hangin in my new room where it’s 80f is my new man cave. Lol.


----------



## ilovereggae (Aug 23, 2021)

from plastics industry





FDA Approved Plastics for Food Contact — Which Plastics Make the Cut? | A&C Plastics


Not just any material can make the FDA approved materials list for food contact, plastic included. But several types of plastic in our own refrigerators and pantries do make the cut. Find out more at A&C Plastics.




www.acplasticsinc.com




.

Low-Density Polyethylene (LDPE)
LDPE is similar to HDPE, but tends to be less rigid, making it perfect for squeeze bottles or plastic film like cling wrap, six-pack rings and more. It is chemically resistant, repels microorganisms and doesn't leach harmful toxins when used to store food at a variety of temperatures. However, it is not deemed safe for food contact in a recycled state.

also from checking some less biased eco blog articles, ldpe seems to be a preferred choice, as it does not contain BPA!

"LDPE is used for dry cleaning bags, bread bags, newspaper bags, produce bags, and garbage bags, as well as “paper" milk cartons and hot/cold beverage cups. LDPE does not contain BPA, but as with most plastics, it can leach estrogenic chemicals."

I think its game time. Will report back w photos and progress.


----------



## myke (Aug 23, 2021)

Yea the cheaper totes with flat lids cut easily by hand. Trace a circle so u have a guide. Good luck. Looking forward to what you come up with.


----------



## Robar (Aug 23, 2021)

myke said:


> The bolt fits in the drill. The screw is the cutter. By moving the screw farther out the hole gets bigger. Kinda red neck but works. The screw just scrapes the plastic away so go slow and clamp everything down lol. View attachment 4971032


Love me some redneck ingenuity! Was thinking something real similar.


----------



## myke (Aug 23, 2021)

Robar said:


> Love me some redneck ingenuity! Was thinking something real similar.


I believe I put some sort of pilot bit in the middle. With out a drill press to hold it straight it would be impossible to get it to work if done free hand.


----------



## Robar (Aug 23, 2021)

myke said:


> I believe I put some sort of pilot bit in the middle. With out a drill press to hold it straight it would be impossible to get it to work if done free hand.


Agreed. I have a drill press but it seems like somewhere around here I have a antique adjustable hole saw that was like that. (drill bit with an adjustable blade on an outrigger if you will.


----------



## myke (Aug 23, 2021)

Robar said:


> Agreed. I have a drill press but it seems like somewhere around here I have a antique adjustable hole saw that was like that. (drill bit with an adjustable blade on an outrigger if you will.


I used mine for net pots in 5 g pails,needed some crazy size like 4 13/16 as 5" was too big.Worked well for a quick fix.


----------



## ilovereggae (Aug 23, 2021)

Prototype complete. Patent pending. Now taking pre-orders, DM me lol. JK. for real though each one cost me just @ $20 so I save a few $ vs using Earthboxes and I have both intake and outflow valves that connect to 1/2 tubing.


----------



## ilovereggae (Aug 23, 2021)

here's the parts prior to assembly an part #s if anyone is interested. not sure how many gals the pots are they say they are 5 gal but looks closer to 3.5 to 4 to me. good enough.

the res can hold 1.5 gal of water. the intake valve sits 1" higher than the outtake


----------



## myke (Aug 23, 2021)

Confused,2 square pots one is the wick? Whats the net pot for?
never mind got it.


----------



## ilovereggae (Aug 23, 2021)

myke said:


> Confused,2 square pots one is the wick? Whats the net pot for?


the netpot is the wick.

the bottom square pot is just acting as a "foot" to hold it up out of the res. I didn't want it to go all the way to the bottom of the res. this way I can also lift the top pot off the lid as needed more easily.

I could have skipped the netpot I guess, or used pvc pieces as feet for each corner of the larger pot to act as feet. but had a bunch of those smaller pots sitting around and they are the right hight so just used those.


----------



## myke (Aug 23, 2021)

Nice! The smaller square pot is the riser,looks good.


----------



## myke (Aug 23, 2021)

What do you use for a water level indicator? Also how do you fill it?


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## ilovereggae (Aug 23, 2021)

myke said:


> What do you use for a water level indicator? Also how do you fill it?


intake hose will allow me to fill them one at a time like i do now, and once i see runoff i stop. Going to get a funnel that I can attach to the end of the hoses for now.

eventually i will take a 20 gal Sterilite tote, and attach 9 more of those valves in a row along one side. fill with water, should be relatively even runoff between all 9 sites. as long as I get runoff from all 9 I figure I am good. 

easy enough to lift the lid and peek in the corner of one of the totes to check res levels. each tent runs clones of the same strain so everything should feed the same (in theory).

i have 2 4x4 tents that sit next to each other with an 18" gap between them. ideally the same 'feeding' tote will have 9 valves on each side so i can feed both tents at the same time. (there would be shutoff valves on each one so i could feed just one side or the other as needed). planning to build a little cart that has the feed res, and the 'dirty' res sitting below it to catch the runoff. 

once they get going i can judge for most part that they need say a gallon each per day to keep them topped off. this would also allow me to run a pump to feed the feeding res in a more automated fashion. i need to figure out a way to either recycle the drain water or wait until I am in a different spot and have access to floor drains before I could pull this off.


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## myke (Aug 23, 2021)

Neat. I was going to link all my totes together but I just changed from Rdwc hydro so didn’t want hoses/bulkheads. Would sure make it easier linked to a res. All the totes would be the same level. But then there’s a res hoses etc. I now just stick a straw in my overflow hole. Waters low ,straw is up lol.


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## Alter Jean (Aug 24, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> here's the parts prior to assembly an part #s if anyone is interested. not sure how many gals the pots are they say they are 5 gal but looks closer to 3.5 to 4 to me. good enough.
> 
> the res can hold 1.5 gal of water. the intake valve sits 1" higher than the outtake
> 
> View attachment 4971469View attachment 4971470View attachment 4971471View attachment 4971472View attachment 4971473View attachment 4971474View attachment 4971475View attachment 4971476


Badass... Would love to follow this.

I made something for sippin' but not nearly as cool as yours.. Maybe we can combine ideas 

Jah vibe


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## Rocket Soul (Aug 24, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> the netpot is the wick.
> 
> the bottom square pot is just acting as a "foot" to hold it up out of the res. I didn't want it to go all the way to the bottom of the res. this way I can also lift the top pot off the lid as needed more easily.
> 
> I could have skipped the netpot I guess, or used pvc pieces as feet for each corner of the larger pot to act as feet. but had a bunch of those smaller pots sitting around and they are the right hight so just used those.


A few SIP experts (@hyroot ) from way back recommend not using the res until the pot is full of roots, using top watering until established. The square pot foot can be help full in these cases protecting the wick. But it would need some stabilization without the bottom res. 

ILR: have you ever looked into PPK system? Similar to the sips but you top water instead and the wick is used more for sucking the water out of the pot, into the res, with multiple watering assuring that you refresh air in the media. Your system is extremely close to be able to PPK, maybe needs a bit longer/thinner wick. The whole point of the ppk system is removing the perched water table;the bit in the bottom of the pot which is a bit extra wet, and pushing it down to the res. There is plenty of threads on icmag forum, look for delta9 posts. It's a very nice rabbit hole...


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## Alter Jean (Aug 24, 2021)

Rocket Soul said:


> A few SIP experts (@hyroot ) from way back recommend not using the res until the pot is full of roots, using top watering until established. The square pot foot can be help full in these cases protecting the wick. But it would need some stabilization without the bottom res.
> 
> ILR: have you ever looked into PPK system? Similar to the sips but you top water instead and the wick is used more for sucking the water out of the pot, into the res, with multiple watering assuring that you refresh air in the media. Your system is extremely close to be able to PPK, maybe needs a bit longer/thinner wick. The whole point of the ppk system is removing the perched water table;the bit in the bottom of the pot which is a bit extra wet, and pushing it down to the res. There is plenty of threads on icmag forum, look for delta9 posts. It's a very nice rabbit hole...


Thanks for that post. Learn something new everyday


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

I think the PPK was more for feeding salts wasnt it? 5 gallon bucket inside another with holes and perlite in between bulkhead in the bottom.Watered to runoff the perlite would hold some moisture between feeds.


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

Rocket Soul said:


> A few SIP experts (@hyroot ) from way back recommend not using the res until the pot is full of roots, using top watering until established. The square pot foot can be help full in these cases protecting the wick. But it would need some stabilization without the bottom res.
> 
> ILR: have you ever looked into PPK system? Similar to the sips but you top water instead and the wick is used more for sucking the water out of the pot, into the res, with multiple watering assuring that you refresh air in the media. Your system is extremely close to be able to PPK, maybe needs a bit longer/thinner wick. The whole point of the ppk system is removing the perched water table;the bit in the bottom of the pot which is a bit extra wet, and pushing it down to the res. There is plenty of threads on icmag forum, look for delta9 posts. It's a very nice rabbit hole...


Interesting about top watering to get more roots before using the wick,Ive never started a small plant in a sip.


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## Rocket Soul (Aug 24, 2021)

myke said:


> I think the PPK was more for feeding salts wasnt it? 5 gallon bucket inside another with holes and perlite in between bulkhead in the bottom.Watered to runoff the perlite would hold some moisture between feeds.


Yes, it's not for an organic soil approach. The idea is a bit the opposite of a SIP: the res below isn't for keeping the medium moist, it's purpose is to remove the perched water level so that you can do full watering several times a day without waterlogging the medium. The full flood of and the following draining of the medium means the air in the medium gets renewed which removes the need to refrigerate the water for O2 levels.


myke said:


> Interesting about top watering to get more roots before using the wick,Ive never started a small plant in a sip.


It's very easy to drown a small plant in a SIP. Or that you get roots to the res and to the surface (where you top feed with nutes) and nothing in the middle.

You can probably find hyroots approach if you go back towards the start of this thread.


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

myke said:


> Interesting about top watering to get more roots before using the wick,Ive never started a small plant in a sip.


I transplanted from a half gallon. The Roots were pretty established. Once I seen that the plant was doing good and growing, I added water to the res


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

I transplanted 2 gallon pots,clones over 2 mo old,I did put them lower in the sip this time.I now have surface roots and their drinking.Ive top watered them just to keep the ewc moist.Ive noticed now the dirt is quite warm compared to when I first planted them.


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## ilovereggae (Aug 24, 2021)

Rocket Soul said:


> A few SIP experts (@hyroot ) from way back recommend not using the res until the pot is full of roots, using top watering until established. The square pot foot can be help full in these cases protecting the wick. But it would need some stabilization without the bottom res.
> 
> ILR: have you ever looked into PPK system? Similar to the sips but you top water instead and the wick is used more for sucking the water out of the pot, into the res, with multiple watering assuring that you refresh air in the media. Your system is extremely close to be able to PPK, maybe needs a bit longer/thinner wick. The whole point of the ppk system is removing the perched water table;the bit in the bottom of the pot which is a bit extra wet, and pushing it down to the res. There is plenty of threads on icmag forum, look for delta9 posts. It's a very nice rabbit hole...


Cool! I will check it out. I actually am not that far off with my current method.

I do like @Hollatchaboy mentioned and just a top watering for the first week or so until I see they are bouncing back from the transplant and have a couple new nodes on them. Then I will fill the res, but then I let the plant use that up and go dry for a day before I refill it. BAS actually suggested this in one of their original SIP videos. I figure this is more like a regular wet/dry cycle in that it let's the roots do a bit of searching/reaching for the water and encourages the growth. For the first week or two that I'm vegging before flip I probably fill them twice. once I've flipped to flower, 3x a week. by week 3 of flower they usually need to be topped off every day.

When it's dry is when I will do my top dressing of nutes and/or ewc (not every time, but usually once every 2-3 weeks), and then do a gentle top watering. assuming some water runs thru into the res, I then wait 24 hrs until I top it off. 

I will use the same logic going forward, just hoping the valves/hoses help keep my space a little neater.


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> Cool! I will check it out. I actually am not that far off with my current method.
> 
> I do like @Hollatchaboy mentioned and just a top watering for the first week or so until I see they are bouncing back from the transplant and have a couple new nodes on them. Then I will fill the res, but then I let the plant use that up and go dry for a day before I refill it. BAS actually suggested this in one of their original SIP videos. I figure this is more like a regular wet/dry cycle in that it let's the roots do a bit of searching/reaching for the water and encourages the growth. For the first week or two that I'm vegging before flip I probably fill them twice. once I've flipped to flower, 3x a week. by week 3 of flower they usually need to be topped off every day.
> 
> ...


I've done the same, but I have to wonder about the roots in the res. Without water they just sit there drying up.


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

I’m day 13 now since transplant. Had me worried as I was seeing what looked like an iron deficiency! We all know that’s from too high of pH. Did some paste tests with distilled water but ph seams right. Wasn’t till last night I noticed the ones showing this deficiency were super cropped last week. Turns out I guess I was a little rough with them when I did it. Lol. I’ll just cut them off. No problem. First pic is what I’m talking about.
Im Still seeing burnt tips on new growth. Perhaps my soil is just a little hot. I know these girls are heavy feeders so chomping at the bit to top dress but maybe I’ll wait.I think I’m gonna flip the light today or tomorrow. I can see there starting to take off.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

I 


myke said:


> I’m day 13 now since transplant. Had me worried as I was seeing what looked like an iron deficiency! We all know that’s from too high of pH. Did some paste tests with distilled water but ph seams right. Wasn’t till last night I noticed the ones showing this deficiency were super cropped last week. Turns out I guess I was a little rough with them when I did it. Lol. I’ll just cut them off. No problem. First pic is what I’m talking about.
> Im Still seeing burnt tips on new growth. Perhaps my soil is just a little hot. I know these girls are heavy feeders so chomping at the bit to top dress but maybe I’ll wait.I think I’m gonna flip the light today or tomorrow. I can see there starting to take off.View attachment 4971666View attachment 4971669


I can't imagine what else could be causing the burnt tips. It's a sip so it doesn't get dry enough for salts to concentrate. It's gotta be running a lil hot. Don't wait too long to top dress. You'll need time for it to break down. Do you have anything you can water in just in case?


----------



## ilovereggae (Aug 24, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I've done the same, but I have to wonder about the roots in the res. Without water they just sit there drying up.


I cant remember which one but I think it's literally the 2nd or 3rd BAS Earthbox video that is on the first or 2nd page of this thread where he suggested letting them dry out occasionally. it made sense to me then. I'm sure there's a point of diminishing return but even in nature the soil isn't always the same exact moisture level. so makes sense to me to recreate that cycle of feeding/searching at least in the early stages.

comparing my earthbox to my buddies (who always keeps his topped off), at the end of a cycle my boxes are like a loaf of soil and roots. I can't even bother to break them up. whereas my buddies has nice roots for sure but no where near the root mass I got.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I cant remember which one but I think it's literally the 2nd or 3rd BAS Earthbox video that is on the first or 2nd page of this thread where he suggested letting them dry out occasionally. it made sense to me then. I'm sure there's a point of diminishing return but even in nature the soil isn't always the same exact moisture level. so makes sense to me to recreate that cycle of feeding/searching at least in the early stages.
> 
> comparing my earthbox to my buddies (who always keeps his topped off), at the end of a cycle my boxes are like a loaf of soil and roots. I can't even bother to break them up. whereas my buddies has nice roots for sure but no where near the root mass I got.


I've watched the bas 10x10 series quite a few times, just to make sure I got it and I've heard Jeremy mention to do that. My res goes dry usually when I'm at work so it's sits dry for a while but I don't like to let it go a while day without watering the res. Especially now, she's drinking a gallon and a half a day.


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## ilovereggae (Aug 24, 2021)

here's my current 4x4. 6 Earthbox Jr's, 2 plants each. 

8 Chile Verdes in the back. Left to right in the front on some risers (these didn't veg as long so we're smaller to start) is some Acai Gelato x KM11, a Guava Shoreline, and a White Runtz.


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> here's my current 4x4. 6 Earthbix Jr's, 2 plants each.
> 
> 8 Chile Verdes in the back. Left to right in the front on some risers (these didn't veg as long so we're smaller to start) is some Acai Gelato x KM11, a Guava Shoreline, and a White Runtz.
> 
> View attachment 4971672View attachment 4971673View attachment 4971674View attachment 4971675View attachment 4971677


Nice! They look great!


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I cant remember which one but I think it's literally the 2nd or 3rd BAS Earthbox video that is on the first or 2nd page of this thread where he suggested letting them dry out occasionally. it made sense to me then. I'm sure there's a point of diminishing return but even in nature the soil isn't always the same exact moisture level. so makes sense to me to recreate that cycle of feeding/searching at least in the early stages.
> 
> comparing my earthbox to my buddies (who always keeps his topped off), at the end of a cycle my boxes are like a loaf of soil and roots. I can't even bother to break them up. whereas my buddies has nice roots for sure but no where near the root mass I got.


Previous runs at mid flower Id have condensation on the under side of my tote lids.A lot of soil bugs lived there upside down lol.


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I cant remember which one but I think it's literally the 2nd or 3rd BAS Earthbox video that is on the first or 2nd page of this thread where he suggested letting them dry out occasionally. it made sense to me then. I'm sure there's a point of diminishing return but even in nature the soil isn't always the same exact moisture level. so makes sense to me to recreate that cycle of feeding/searching at least in the early stages.
> 
> comparing my earthbox to my buddies (who always keeps his topped off), at the end of a cycle my boxes are like a loaf of soil and roots. I can't even bother to break them up. whereas my buddies has nice roots for sure but no where near the root mass I got.


Are you running them no till?


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I
> 
> I can't imagine what else could be causing the burnt tips. It's a sip so it doesn't get dry enough for salts to concentrate. It's gotta be running a lil hot. *Don't wait too long to top dress.* You'll need time for it to break down. Do you have anything you can water in just in case?


Yup,once you fall behind almost impossible to catch up.Gonna top dress one today and see what happens.


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## ilovereggae (Aug 24, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Are you running them no till?


nope, they are in a fresh batch of my veganic supersoil mix, mostly fresh water... but a little buildabloom, coconut powder, kelp meal extract, ewc tea, and/or recharge once a weekish depending on how I'm feeling and the phase of the moon lol. Super non scientific, I just try to keep the plants happy and predict what they will want and cross my fingers they stay green til harvest


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> nope, they are in a fresh batch of my veganic supersoil mix, mostly fresh water... but a little buildabloom, coconut powder, kelp meal extract, ewc tea, and/or recharge once a weekish depending on how I'm feeling and the phase of the moon lol. Super non scientific, I just try to keep the plants happy and predict what they will want and cross my fingers they stay green til harvest


Finger crossing works man! Its my go to lol.


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

myke said:


> Previous runs at mid flower Id have condensation on the under side of my tote lids.A lot of soil bugs lived there upside down lol.


Yea my top is pretty moist underneath. Lots of critters running around.


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> nope, they are in a fresh batch of my veganic supersoil mix, mostly fresh water... but a little buildabloom, coconut powder, kelp meal extract, ewc tea, and/or recharge once a weekish depending on how I'm feeling and the phase of the moon lol. Super non scientific, I just try to keep the plants happy and predict what they will want and cross my fingers they stay green til harvest


You water those into the top?


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## ilovereggae (Aug 24, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> You water those into the top?


depends. if I'm just adding some buildabloom and coconut powder I just add it to the res. if I make ewc tea / kelp etc I keep it undiluted, and I will measure out say 8 oz per plant and then pour 4oz at a time into the open hole of the plant covers, so its going straight to the main root ball. wait 10 mins for it to wick into the soil a bit, have a smoke, pour a little more etc. like I said, not scientific. I just make it up as I go mostly (and get new ideas from all of you).


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> depends. if I'm just adding some buildabloom and coconut powder I just add it to the res. if I make ewc tea / kelp etc I keep it undiluted, and I will measure out say 8 oz per plant and then pour 4oz at a time into the open hole of the plant covers, so its going straight to the main root ball. wait 10 mins for it to wick into the soil a bit, have a smoke, pour a little more etc. like I said, not scientific. I just make it up as I go mostly (and get new ideas from all of you).


I've been hesitant adding anything to the res other than water. Especially organic, but I've been thinking of maybe humic acid... maybe the bas big 6 micros with humics? No ill effects putting anything into the res?


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I've been hesitant adding anything to the res other than water. Especially organic, but I've been thinking of maybe humic acid... maybe the bas big 6 micros with humics? No ill effects putting anything into the res?


Yea me too,was hoping one of you guys would try.Dont think it needs it though.

A tip I use now is foiler feeding epsom and potassium sulphate(armour si) once you have little buds.Twice a week.Try it seams to help fatten up the buds.
A pinch of epsom in hot water to dissolve to 500ml water add 4 drops armor si.Shake and spray just before light on.


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## ilovereggae (Aug 24, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I've been hesitant adding anything to the res other than water. Especially organic, but I've been thinking of maybe humic acid... maybe the bas big 6 micros with humics? No ill effects putting anything into the res?


so far so good. I got that idea from BAS as well. but they point out not to do it until you have good water roots. I figure the buildabloom is fine since it's water-soluble as well as being vegan, nothing in there really to go bad or get funky, plus letting it dry out afterward seems to be fine..

I've also added the coconut powder, kelp, and recharge directly to the res before. not sure I would do same with anything w fish/blood/bone/guano in it tho.


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

Top dressed them all. Said what’s the worst that can happen. Going with fingers crossed. Dug a trench added 4 tbls and a cup of ewc to ea. Top watered in 16oz over the trench.


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## Rocket Soul (Aug 24, 2021)

myke said:


> I’m day 13 now since transplant. Had me worried as I was seeing what looked like an iron deficiency! We all know that’s from too high of pH. Did some paste tests with distilled water but ph seams right. Wasn’t till last night I noticed the ones showing this deficiency were super cropped last week. Turns out I guess I was a little rough with them when I did it. Lol. I’ll just cut them off. No problem. First pic is what I’m talking about.
> Im Still seeing burnt tips on new growth. Perhaps my soil is just a little hot. I know these girls are heavy feeders so chomping at the bit to top dress but maybe I’ll wait.I think I’m gonna flip the light today or tomorrow. I can see there starting to take off.View attachment 4971666View attachment 4971669


If you get iron defs in sips it is likely they are getting too much water in the soil. I had the same but with some normal plants, bougainvillea if I recall correctly. Too much watering and the iron cant be absorbed. If you get burnt tips at the same time then it's even more likely to be a regular def.


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## Rocket Soul (Aug 24, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I've been hesitant adding anything to the res other than water. Especially organic, but I've been thinking of maybe humic acid... maybe the bas big 6 micros with humics? No ill effects putting anything into the res?


You can add lactobacillus extract or whatever it's called. I know Pedro from gml show uses it in sips, you can read up on it thru googling Korean Natural farming. 

This will help against anaerobic bacteria buildup.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

Rocket Soul said:


> You can add lactobacillus extract or whatever it's called. I know Pedro from gml show uses it in sips, you can read up on it thru googling Korean Natural farming.
> 
> This will help against anaerobic bacteria buildup.


Lactobacillus acid or lactic acid bacteria is great shit! It's really easy to make by fermenting rice water and milk. I'm in a knf style group. I haven't made ferments yet but I will this fall when work shows down and I have more time.


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

Day 9 flower.....





Top leaves are looking a lil light in color. Does anybody know my light could be causing it?


----------



## HydoDan (Aug 24, 2021)

Definite light bleaching.. Done that before..


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

HydoDan said:


> Definite light bleaching.. Done that before..


That sucks. I have it at about 20-22" above the canopy, and only halfway up.... about 200 watts. Do you think she'll be handle more as she progresses thru flower? I haven't had this problem before, but this is a new strain to me.


----------



## HydoDan (Aug 24, 2021)

I did it with every new led I bought.. I never tried turning it back up after I backed off..
They greened up and finished fine..


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

HydoDan said:


> I did it with every new led I bought.. I never tried turning it back up after I backed off..
> They greened up and finished fine..


Damn, I'm gonna have to figure this out. Thanks!


----------



## HydoDan (Aug 24, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Damn, I'm gonna have to figure this out. Thanks!


Every light comes with a learning curve, like everything else we do..


----------



## Soul Dwella (Aug 24, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Damn, I'm gonna have to figure this out. Thanks!


Are you sure its not hungry? Remember, @myke is top dressing 4tbls per week!


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

Soul Dwella said:


> Are you sure its not hungry? Remember, @myke is top dressing 4tbls per week!


I top dressed about 2 cups build a flower on day 1 flower, so I wouldn't think it's hungry yet. I just top dressed with cowoco, so we'll see. I'll water in some build a bloom next time the res is empty.


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

How much real food has she had?If it was light bleaching wouldnt it have happened long ago?


----------



## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I top dressed about 2 cups build a flower on day 1 flower, so I wouldn't think it's hungry yet. I just top dressed with cowoco, so we'll see. I'll water in some build a bloom next time the res is empty.


Needs veg food well past stretch,I mix 50/50 veg bloom until the end but I use gaia which is low in N


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

myke said:


> How much real food has she had?If it was light bleaching wouldnt it have happened long ago?


I've slowly been increasing light daily.


----------



## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I've slowly been increasing light daily.


I see,yea still needs N, is it pale all over or just on top?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

myke said:


> Needs veg food well past stretch,I mix 50/50 veg bloom until the end but I use gaia which is low in N


I have her 3/4 cup craft blend and ewc 2 weeks before flip. I'll add a 1/2 cup craft blend tomorrow.


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

myke said:


> I see,yea still needs N, is it pale all over or just on top?


Just on top. Bottoms green. No yellow leaves anywhere.


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Just on top. Bottoms green. No yellow leaves anywhere.


Well all I know is my plants consume a lot of N during stretch,Powerful leds consume Magnesium also.Either feed more or back off the light.Ive also got new lights and am worried ill have the same issue.Much easier with shitty leds lol.


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

I was thinking micros maybe?


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

myke said:


> Well all I know is my plants consume a lot of N during stretch,Powerful leds consume Magnesium also.Either feed more or back off the light.Ive also got new lights and am worried ill have the same issue.Much easier with shitty leds lol.


What's a good source of organic mg?


----------



## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> What's a good source of organic mg?


epsom ,how big is that tent?Looking at the trunk thats a big ass plant!I would give her 6 tbls of gaia 444 every week


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

Both of these plants got 4-6 tbls of 444 a week,Still had yellow leaves.Your plant looks bigger.


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

myke said:


> epsom ,how big is that tent?Looking at the trunk thats a big ass plant!I would give her 6 tbls of gaia 444 every week


It's just a 3x3. But she is pretty good size. I think I let her veg too long in fear she wasn't going to fill the scrog. I'll start feeding more. The craft blend is estimated at 352. That and some more build a flower.


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

myke said:


> epsom ,how big is that tent?Looking at the trunk thats a big ass plant!I would give her 6 tbls of gaia 444 every week


Gaia is just Canada no?


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

Thats a 5x5 room.


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Gaia is just Canada no?


Yes,but all the same ish.Look at ingredients.Basically same.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

myke said:


> Thats a 5x5 room.


Those are big plants too then!


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

https://www.gaiagreen.com/product-page/all-purpose-4-4-4


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Those are big plants too then!


Yea canopy was about 3x3ish so pretty close to yours.


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## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

In hydro there was never a problem with big plants, N was always available.When I switched to sips was like holy shit they eat a lot.


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

myke said:


> https://www.gaiagreen.com/product-page/all-purpose-4-4-4


Shit, that gaia might be better!


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

myke said:


> In hydro there was never a problem with big plants, N was always available.When I switched to sips was like holy shit they eat a lot.


Yea I guess I didn't take size into consideration. I've just been growing them in 3 gal pots while learning living soil. They were much smaller and didn't eat so much. Lol


----------



## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Shit, that gaia might be better!


Probably all the same stuff,feather,bone,blood meal etc..


----------



## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

So feed her and back the light off,last run when I fed on Sunday I could see improvement on Wednesday.


----------



## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

You can get Future Harvest Fish Hydrosolate (sp) in the US.Quick fix stuff.A lot of organic growers use as a back up.


----------



## myke (Aug 24, 2021)

Had a read,seams nothing is really strong in the build a bloom stuff,https://buildasoil.com/products/buildaflower-top-dress-kit

You can get dr earth its more like gaia,has more water soluble Nitrogen.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

myke said:


> Probably all the same stuff,feather,bone,blood meal etc..


Is has humics in it tho. Craft blend doesn't. 



myke said:


> So feed her and back the light off,last run when I fed on Sunday I could see improvement on Wednesday.


I just have her 3/4 cup craft blend, and more cowoco. Topped it off with grokashi to help it break down faster.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

myke said:


> You can get Future Harvest Fish Hydrosolate (sp) in the US.Quick fix stuff.A lot of organic growers use as a back up.


I have Neptune's Harvest fish fertilizer. I made a tea with it middle of last week with some build a flower. Watered in 5% of the earthbox.




myke said:


> Had a read,seams nothing is really strong in the build a bloom stuff,https://buildasoil.com/products/buildaflower-top-dress-kit
> 
> You can get dr earth its more like gaia,has more water soluble Nitrogen.


The build a bloom or build a flower?


----------



## GrassBurner (Aug 24, 2021)

I love Dr Earth's dry ammendments  Cheap, has microbes and mycorrhizae, and gives stellar results.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 24, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I love Dr Earth's dry ammendments  Cheap, has microbes and mycorrhizae, and gives stellar results.


I have a few things from them. Haven't used to much yet though


----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I have Neptune's Harvest fish fertilizer. I made a tea with it middle of last week with some build a flower. Watered in 5% of the earthbox.
> 
> 
> 
> The build a bloom or build a flower?





Hollatchaboy said:


> I have Neptune's Harvest fish fertilizer. I made a tea with it middle of last week with some build a flower. Watered in 5% of the earthbox.
> 
> 
> 
> The build a bloom or build a flower?


Sorry got them mixed up,cant seem to find whats in the build a bloom?


----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I love Dr Earth's dry ammendments  Cheap, has microbes and mycorrhizae, and gives stellar results.


This looks like a good one,use start to finish.
https://drearth.com/product/life-all-purpose-fertilizer/


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 25, 2021)

myke said:


> Sorry got them mixed up,cant seem to find whats in the build a bloom?


----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> View attachment 4972362


Yikes,2-10-5.Seams a bit off for cannabis?


----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)

This is something I’m gonna start playing with. The Gaia bloom is high in P also. Seams the N and K should be higher then the P?? 
when I did hydro ratios were like 3-1-2 for veg and 2-1-3 for bloom.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 25, 2021)

myke said:


> This is something I’m gonna start playing with. The Gaia bloom is high in P also. Seams the N and K should be higher then the P??
> when I did hydro ratios were like 3-1-2 for veg and 2-1-3 for bloom.


I was under impression that plants like high PK in flower, with medium N thru stretch, then lower N after stretch? I use Lucas formula for hydro, so the ratios are already figured out for me.


----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I was under impression that plants like high PK in flower, with medium N thru stretch, then lower N after stretch? I use Lucas formula for hydro, so the ratios are already figured out for me.


Which one? 8-16 or 6-9 I tried 8-16 was way too strong for the strain I had,switched to 6-9 but a little too much N,had the shinny dark green look so reduced it to 4-9 better but something was still off. Thats the beauty of hydro mixes you can play with ratios a little.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 25, 2021)

myke said:


> Which one? 8-16 or 6-9 I tried 8-16 was way too strong for the strain I had,switched to 6-9 but a little too much N,had the shinny dark green look so reduced it to 4-9 better but something was still off. Thats the beauty of hydro mixes you can play with ratios a little.


8/16. I was doing 5/10, but she wanted more! Lol
The big fan leaves are a lil dark but she doesn't show any burn.


----------



## GrassBurner (Aug 25, 2021)

myke said:


> This looks like a good one,use start to finish.
> https://drearth.com/product/life-all-purpose-fertilizer/


Nice! Haven't seen that one yet. I've got Home Grown (4-6-3), Flower Girl (3-9-4), and Pure Gold (2-2-2)


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 25, 2021)

myke said:


> This looks like a good one,use start to finish.
> https://drearth.com/product/life-all-purpose-fertilizer/


Veg and bloom? Shit that's even easier! I might have to switch to that


----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Veg and bloom? Shit that's even easier! I might have to switch to that


Not sure maybe prilled or pelletized ? Perhaps @GrassBurner knows


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 25, 2021)

myke said:


> Not sure maybe prilled or pelletized ? Perhaps @GrassBurner knows


Maybe just flower then. Either way looks good!


----------



## GrassBurner (Aug 25, 2021)

Looks like the "Life" is pellets. According to their website it has fast and slow release nutrients. From the looks of it, I believe those same pellets are in the fertilizers I use, along with a bunch of powdered dry ammendments. They also offer some of their lines in a concentrated liquid.


----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)

Well if its pellitized then its meant to dissolve slowly as you water over it.Use in the garden so wind doesn't blow it away.Not sure about in a sip.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 25, 2021)

myke said:


> Well if its pellitized then its meant to dissolve slowly as you water over it.Use in the garden so wind doesn't blow it away.Not sure about in a sip.


Could just grind it up, no?


----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Could just grind it up, no?


Good question, Earth dust is another brand of dry fertilizer in the US I think.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 25, 2021)

myke said:


> Good question, Earth dust is another brand of dry fertilizer in the US I think.


Yep. I can get their products on Amazon too!


----------



## Robar (Aug 25, 2021)

Well stopped after work today and bought 12 - 12Gal totes at homdep. The black ones with yellow tops like so many others. Also stopped and picked up some 6" mesh pots from the hydro section of my local grow shop. I still have to pick up some pvc for supports and fill tube. Tried to think of something else for supports but Pvc seems like the most easily available option and I'm not all that bright so I like to roll with KISS whenever I can. (Keep It Simple Stupid)

I have a question. These tote measure "Interior dimensions (at bottom of tote) 15.75 in. L x 11.25 in. W x 11 in. H" I picked up 6" mesh pots for the wick. I just assumed this would be what I wanted for the dimensions of my totes. Should I have gone with say 2 -3" instead?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 25, 2021)

Robar said:


> Well stopped after work today and bought 12 - 12Gal totes at homdep. The black ones with yellow tops like so many others. Also stopped and picked up some 6" mesh pots from the hydro section of my local grow shop. I still have to pick up some pvc for supports and fill tube. Tried to think of something else for supports but Pvc seems like the most easily available option and I'm not all that bright so I like to roll with KISS whenever I can. (Keep It Simple Stupid)
> 
> I have a question. These tote measure "Interior dimensions (at bottom of tote) 15.75 in. L x 11.25 in. W x 11 in. H" I picked up 6" mesh pots for the wick. I just assumed this would be what I wanted for the dimensions of my totes. Should I have gone with say 2 -3" instead?


Cool man! Good luck with the sips! They're fuckin awesome. Unfortunately I don't know the answer to your question but I believe @myke may be able to help.


----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)

Robar said:


> Well stopped after work today and bought 12 - 12Gal totes at homdep. The black ones with yellow tops like so many others. Also stopped and picked up some 6" mesh pots from the hydro section of my local grow shop. I still have to pick up some pvc for supports and fill tube. Tried to think of something else for supports but Pvc seems like the most easily available option and I'm not all that bright so I like to roll with KISS whenever I can. (Keep It Simple Stupid)
> 
> I have a question. These tote measure "Interior dimensions (at bottom of tote) 15.75 in. L x 11.25 in. W x 11 in. H" I picked up 6" mesh pots for the wick. I just assumed this would be what I wanted for the dimensions of my totes. Should I have gone with say 2 -3" instead?


You can use the same mesh baskets as risers,then the height is perfect.I use 5" just cause thats what i had.


----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)

Vacuum flow pipe from home depo is cheap for a fill tube. The tube will just sit in the net pot that u use as risers. I just use pvc pipe as risers as it was free and seamed really strong.


----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)

Drill holes all around the top of the wick net pot if they don’t have it already.


----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)

I cruse new home construction sites,their garbage bins are full of good stuff.Thats how I got my 4" pipe,youll want notches and holes in the risers so water can flow.


----------



## Robar (Aug 25, 2021)




----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)

Or those green plastic pots can be used as risers or feet whatever their called.


----------



## Robar (Aug 25, 2021)

Sorry if the pic is huge I'm using my phone. So if I got it right muke. For the wick drill holes all around the band the sticker is on.


----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)

Robar said:


> View attachment 4972585


So drill holes around the top part so more roots can come through and water in.


----------



## Robar (Aug 25, 2021)

Robar said:


> Sorry if the pic is huge I'm using my phone. So if I got it right muke. For the wick drill holes all around the band the sticker is on.


Sorry myke the phone called you a muke.


----------



## Robar (Aug 25, 2021)

myke said:


> So drill holes around the top part so more roots can come through and water in.


That's what I thought. Thanks for the tips. This is going to be fun!


----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)




----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)

The vacuum flow pipe is exactly 2”. So use a 2” hole saw in the tote you get a nice tight fit so dirt doesn’t fall in. In the lid I drilled a 2 1/4 hole so lid comes of easy.


----------



## myke (Aug 25, 2021)

One thing Ill do next round is put a bulkhead in the over flow hole say 1/2" or even a grommet so a tube can fit in,then you can attach hose and put a container to catch overflow.Right now mine just spill on the floor.


----------



## Robar (Aug 25, 2021)

myke said:


> Vacuum flow pipe from home depo is cheap for a fill tube. The tube will just sit in the net pot that u use as risers. I just use pvc pipe as risers as it was free and seamed really strong. View attachment 4972579


Nice photo bomb there in the upper right


myke said:


> View attachment 4972589


Those roots are amazing. I'll admit that all the bud photos are great but its these rezervoir root shots that sold me on it!


----------



## GrassBurner (Aug 25, 2021)

myke said:


> One thing Ill do next round is put a bulkhead in the over flow hole say 1/2" or even a grommet so a tube can fit in,then you can attach hose and put a container to catch overflow.Right now mine just spill on the floor.


That's my only gripe with my sips, the overflows leave a lot to be desired. I have pot saucers under them, but the area is only big enough to fit one that catches 1 watering worth of overflow.


----------



## Alter Jean (Aug 25, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> That's my only gripe with my sips, the overflows leave a lot to be desired. I have pot saucers under them, but the area is only big enough to fit one that catches 1 watering worth of overflow.


Filling the sip with plastic bottles or perlite, using the corners empty for wicking medium..
The tub lid undertneath catches my overflow. My SIP concept is no tools or anything and random objects.
I like the big trash bin sips for outside.

Here you can see what I'm talking about above.
Split in the middle and perlite in the base.. Not a pro though still dialing it in. Some tester plants


----------



## myke (Aug 26, 2021)

Well took some of my own advice and installed grommets in my overflow holes. Need to search for the perfect container now. This means I can now use my hose to fill sips rather then a funnel and a jug.


----------



## myke (Aug 26, 2021)

I also flipped the light yesterday. Today’s first full day at 12/12


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 26, 2021)

myke said:


> I also flipped the light yesterday. Today’s first full day at 12/12View attachment 4973224


Awww sheeeiiittttt! You gonna be really happy in about 2.5 - 3 months.


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

Cold weather has hit. It’s someone hit a switch last week. Lows around 6-8c now and the next 2 weeks look the same. Sunny day temps but growth seams to have slowed on my tomato sips. Harvested a ton of the cherries ,there so good.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

myke said:


> Cold weather has hit. It’s someone hit a switch last week. Lows around 6-8c now and the next 2 weeks look the same. Sunny day temps but growth seams to have slowed on my tomato sips. Harvested a ton of the cherries ,there so good. View attachment 4974298


They're huge bro!


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

myke said:


> Cold weather has hit. It’s someone hit a switch last week. Lows around 6-8c now and the next 2 weeks look the same. Sunny day temps but growth seams to have slowed on my tomato sips. Harvested a ton of the cherries ,there so good. View attachment 4974298


Is that a greenhouse?


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Is that a greenhouse?


3 walls,house,garage and a 2x4 wall that the tomatoes are on.1 wall open to the yard so temp is only a little warmer.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

myke said:


> 3 walls,house,garage and a 2x4 wall that the tomatoes are on.1 wall open to the yard so temp is only a little warmer.


Nice. Nothing better than free light! Lol


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Nice. Nothing better than free light! Lol


Wish I could close it all in but wouldnt work as theirs lilac bushes on the open wall.Their base is directly below the ridge beam.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

My baby is coming back! She was definitely hungry! There's still light yellowing but she's greening back up, funny thing is, there's no yellow leaves like down low or anywhere. They're all green. Could it have been a micro deficiency?






She's got pistils poppin!


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

myke said:


> Wish I could close it all in but wouldnt work as theirs lilac bushes on the open wall.Their base is directly below the ridge beam.


Any way you could transplant them? Lol


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Any way you could transplant them? Lol


I could plastic off ,and have thought about it.Would need electric heat then. I count my watts so Id have to give up 300 watts from you know where lol.


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> My baby is coming back! She was definitely hungry! There's still light yellowing but she's greening back up, funny thing is, there's no yellow leaves like down low or anywhere. They're all green. Could it have been a micro deficiency?
> 
> View attachment 4974343
> View attachment 4974344
> ...


Can you take a pic with light off?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

myke said:


> I could plastic off ,and have thought about it.Would need electric heat then. I count my watts so Id have to give up 300 watts from you know where lol.


I know all to well. Lol.... I'm counting mine too as I'm running off one 15 amp circuit. That's good to about 1400 watts without pushing it too hard.


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> My baby is coming back! She was definitely hungry! There's still light yellowing but she's greening back up, funny thing is, there's no yellow leaves like down low or anywhere. They're all green. Could it have been a micro deficiency?
> 
> View attachment 4974343
> View attachment 4974344
> ...


Lift up that girls skirt! She needs a wax. lol


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

myke said:


> Can you take a pic with light off?


Yep....


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

myke said:


> Lift up that girls skirt! She needs a wax. lol


Wouldn't that be a bad thing to do right now?


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Wouldn't that be a bad thing to do right now?


Why?Its using energy to grow larf.Remove the larf I say.Ha,Seriously, trim that shit out.Air flow and bigger top buds is in your future.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

myke said:


> Why?Its using energy to grow larf.Remove the larf I say.Ha,Seriously, trim that shit out.Air flow and bigger top buds is in your future.


For sure then! How does she look otherwise in your opinion?


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yep....
> 
> View attachment 4974366


Are they greener then 4 days ago when you fed?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

myke said:


> Are they greener then 4 days ago when you fed?


I believe so. I watered in some build a bloom and big 6 micros plus humics last night. 500 ml. Just to give her a lil boost until the craft blend starts breaking down.


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I believe so. I watered in some build a bloom and big 6 micros plus humics last night. 500 ml. Just to give her a lil boost until the craft blend starts breaking down.


Continue giving her N type amendments that are water soluble.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

Should I water in some....



The next time the res empties?


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

The P and K are already in there waiting their turn.N gets gobbled up right now.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

myke said:


> The P and K are already in there waiting their turn.N gets gobbled up right now.


Any suggestions?


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Any suggestions?


Piling on a bunch of bloom fertilizer doesn't do it.Fish veg like a 5-1-1 would be gold.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

myke said:


> Piling on a bunch of bloom fertilizer doesn't do it.Fish veg like a 5-1-1 would be gold.


Like this?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Like this?
> 
> View attachment 4974383


Or how about this?


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

myke said:


> The P and K are already in there waiting their turn.N gets gobbled up right now.


Ill add that you still want green leaves 8 weeks from now.Feed the leaves.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

myke said:


> Ill add that you still want green leaves 8 weeks from now.Feed the leaves.


I agree. I have some of this...



Too much N you think? Lol


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

Heavy metals in the first one,IIRC.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

I'd rather the 2nd one.


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I'd rather the 2nd one.


Do it! ha.Mix in a spray bottle.500 ml, make a trench spray there so in 2 days you can top water over it again.Get in there deep!


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

myke said:


> Do it! ha.Mix in a spray bottle.500 ml, make a trench spray there so in 2 days you can top water over it again.Get in there deep!


A pinch of epsom diluted with that and you have calmag.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 27, 2021)

myke said:


> Do it! ha.Mix in a spray bottle.500 ml, make a trench spray there so in 2 days you can top water over it again.Get in there deep!


I'd there a better way?


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I'd there a better way?


I pour a full solo cup over my trench of gaia.


----------



## myke (Aug 27, 2021)

myke said:


> I pour a full solo cup over my trench of gaia.


clicked to fast ha, every 2 days Ill add.


----------



## Soul Dwella (Aug 28, 2021)

Not sure if its OK to post this in this thread or not. If anyone has an issue with it let me know.
I have mold on top of my soil. I believe its from the Recharge solution I top watered in. I need to top dress again, so should I just mix the mold in with the top dress? Is this a big issue? Once I saw the mold this I drastically increased my exhaust fan setting. Saw in a couple of threads that this is normal in organic soil???


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 28, 2021)

Soul Dwella said:


> Not sure if its OK to post this in this thread or not. If anyone has an issue with it let me know.
> I have mold on top of my soil. I believe its from the Recharge solution I top watered in. I need to top dress again, so should I just mix the mold in with the top dress? Is this a big issue? Once I saw the mold this I drastically increased my exhaust fan setting. Saw in a couple of threads that this is normal in organic soil???
> 
> View attachment 4974644
> View attachment 4974645


Yep! It's normal and good. I just top dress right over it.


----------



## myke (Aug 28, 2021)

mycelium ,its all good.


----------



## Soul Dwella (Aug 29, 2021)

I'm thinking my lights are subpar for the rate of growth a SIP produces. Plants look good, but branches are very flimsy, unlike previous top water plants I've grown. Anybody using silica or something else to strengthen roots and is insufficient lighting the main cause or is this normal with this rate of growth? Currently have a Mars Hydro TS600 and a Viparspectra P600 for two plants in my 2x4.


----------



## myke (Aug 29, 2021)

Soul Dwella said:


> I'm thinking my lights are subpar for the rate of growth a SIP produces. Plants look good, but branches are very flimsy, unlike previous top water plants I've grown. Anybody using silica or something else to strengthen roots and is insufficient lighting the main cause or is this normal with this rate of growth? Currently have a Mars Hydro TS600 and a Viparspectra P600 for two plants in my 2x4.


You got a lot of fan?Girls are dancing?250 watts should be good.


----------



## myke (Aug 29, 2021)

If plants are small in a big sip then just top water until roots get everywhere, then fill.


----------



## Soul Dwella (Aug 29, 2021)

myke said:


> You got a lot of fan?Girls are dancing?250 watts should be good.


I mean...the leaves bop their heads a bit, but I wouldn't say dancing. LOL. I'll get the wind flow up a bit. Thanks!


----------



## Soul Dwella (Aug 29, 2021)

Probably lifted the lights to far above the canopy when the plants start to lighten in color before I understood their new SIP appetite.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 29, 2021)

Soul Dwella said:


> Probably lifted the lights to far above the canopy when the plants start to lighten in color before I understood their new SIP appetite.


I believe I did the same. Lol


----------



## myke (Aug 29, 2021)

Soul Dwella said:


> I mean...the leaves bop their heads a bit, but I wouldn't say dancing. LOL. I'll get the wind flow up a bit. Thanks!


Helps build strong stems early in veg.I was going to add something like DE or kelp extract for that cause I had issues last round but this round with lots of light and wind their good.


----------



## myke (Aug 29, 2021)

Topping and super cropping will build big stems also.


----------



## ilovereggae (Aug 30, 2021)

new tent is up and running. hydro shop was out of hoses and fittings I need for my master plan, so I'm just top watering for now.

3 different cuts of Pheno Addicts PDX Pop Rocks (LA Pop Rocks x Runtz). Popped 3 seeds and took cuts, this is the first test run to see how they do. #1 is 3 plants down middle. #2 is 4 corners (these were tallest and most vigor of the 3). #3 is the 2 outside middle. 



Week 5 in a Chilean Jungle (Chile Verde and some of her lady friends)


----------



## myke (Aug 30, 2021)

Soul Dwella said:


> Probably lifted the lights to far above the canopy when the plants start to lighten in color before I understood their new SIP appetite.





ilovereggae said:


> new tent is up and running. hydro shop was out of hoses and fittings I need for my master plan, so I'm just top watering for now.
> 
> 3 different cuts of Pheno Addicts PDX Pop Rocks (LA Pop Rocks x Runtz). Popped 3 seeds and took cuts, this is the first test run to see how they do. #1 is 3 plants down middle. #2 is 4 corners (these were tallest and most vigor of the 3). #3 is the 2 outside middle.
> 
> ...


Your gonna need a bigger tent!


----------



## ilovereggae (Aug 30, 2021)

myke said:


> Your gonna need a bigger tent!


I need a warehouse 

new tent will get about a weekish veg then I'll flip them. I prefer to grow a bunch of untopped plants as opposed to a few bushes. makes defol and getting into the tent easier. 

the full tent that I posted has 12 plants in it!


----------



## myke (Aug 31, 2021)

Well it’s one week since the first topdress.
burnt tips seams to have gone away. Soil was hot I guess .They have responded well to the topdress.
6 days since flip. Starting to stretch.I’m gonna need more trellis.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 31, 2021)

myke said:


> Well it’s one week since the first topdress.
> burnt tips seams to have gone away. Soil was hot I guess .They have responded well to the topdress.
> 6 days since flip. Starting to stretch.I’m gonna need more trellis. View attachment 4976924


Lookin killer man!


----------



## myke (Aug 31, 2021)




----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 31, 2021)

myke said:


> View attachment 4976927


Nice and green and praying! Nice setup bro! I'll be there one day!


----------



## myke (Aug 31, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Nice and green and praying! Nice setup bro! I'll be there one day!


Thanks man,Im liking the extra space.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 31, 2021)

This is where my girl is at....





She's gotten a lil greener, but I want her a lil greener still. I'm top watering a light dose of water soluble soybean aminos. She's growing slow, I dunno if it's because I defoliated a lil last week, or because of the N deficiency.

Anyways, lots of feeder roots! Lol


----------



## ilovereggae (Aug 31, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> This is where my girl is at....
> 
> View attachment 4977001
> View attachment 4977000
> ...


i would top dress w ewc and/or give them a little recharge and I bet those are greener in 3 days


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 31, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> i would top dress w ewc and/or give them a little recharge and I bet those are greener in 3 days


I don't have any recharge, and I just top dressed 6 days ago and gave a craft blend/ewc compost tea the other night. It greened her up a bit, but not enough. The soy aminos are high N. I'm hoping that does the trick. Lol


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 1, 2021)

More feeders today! 



I just top dressed 1/4 cup craft blend and 1 1/2 cups build a bloom with a lil grokashi to get some food breaking down to feed those roots.


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## Soul Dwella (Sep 1, 2021)

What are you guys using for your rez water(tap,RO) and what if anything are you adding to it(epsom, Calmag)? And are you PH'ing it at all?


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 1, 2021)

Soul Dwella said:


> What are you guys using for your rez water(tap,RO) and what if anything are you adding to it(epsom, Calmag)? And are you PH'ing it at all?


Honestly I'm using straight ro water even tho I probably shouldn't be. My tap is really high ppm and from all the calcium deposits I get, I'm guessing it's mostly calcium. I don't ph it either.


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 1, 2021)

Soul Dwella said:


> What are you guys using for your rez water(tap,RO) and what if anything are you adding to it(epsom, Calmag)? And are you PH'ing it at all?


I believe just filtered water would be best.


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## myke (Sep 1, 2021)

My tap is pH7.2 ish 120 ppm pretty hard.I use fresh from the tap so I get chlorine to help keep the res clean.Seams to work.


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## myke (Sep 1, 2021)

I add a pinch of epsom in my sprayer to moisten the soil surface between topdressings.


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 1, 2021)

myke said:


> My tap is pH7.2 ish 120 ppm pretty hard.I use fresh from the tap so I get chlorine to help keep the res clean.Seams to work.


I know the chlorine gets dealt with (I believe by the humic? ), but I'm always nervous about adding it. Maybe I'll try. I know I seen a worm in the res thru the filler tube.


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## myke (Sep 1, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I know the chlorine gets dealt with (I believe by the humic? ), but I'm always nervous about adding it. Maybe I'll try. I know I seen a worm in the res thru the filler tube.


No real science behind it,all my veggies get straight from the tap and I got a lot of worms in my beds.


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 1, 2021)

myke said:


> No real science behind it,all my veggies get straight from the tap and I got a lot of worms in my beds.


I'll try it on the next cycle. I don't wanna go changing anything up now.


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 2, 2021)

Day 19.....





I feel like she's a lil greener and growing again!


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## hot_box_enthusiast (Sep 2, 2021)

Love this thread. About to embark on a mission into the SIP world and look forward to more learning and sharing. Being in Canada, I settled on trying some Gaia Green products for my amendments; and so *have made the same post in the Gaia Green thread*.

Looking for feedback on my plan which I will paste below. I have almost everything at this point and am ready to get mixing. I've been growing with PromixHP and Advanced Nutes up until now.

**copied post**

Looking for feedback on my planned mix & setup. I have already purchased most of everything, so feedback will more be in relation to the ratio of inputs, need to cook or not etc.

Preamble - Have wanted to try soil for a while and am taking the plunge. I really liked the Build A Soil video series, and was considering Earthbox or No Till Beds. When I found Earthboxes at 50% off, and noted how well they might fit in my space, I decided it was meant to be.

My plan is to start with a perpetual harvest for my flower room for a few reasons:

I am new to mixing my own soil, and know there will be plenty of learning curves for watering etc compared to running bottles in promix; therefore rather than just filling up my space, I figured I would stagger them in one or two earthboxes at a time
pests// my understanding is good and bad pests are part of the deal with growing in soil. My thought is adding one box a week and maintaining good IPM will give a better chance for success than just cramming the space full
variations on how I mix and amend the soil; I will run some known clones to start, and figured that I would be able to experiment a bit with how I feed them. For example Week 1 I start 2 earthboxes with identical clones. As time goes on I can top dress and amend slightly differently to see how they respond. Furthermore I can consider whether I want to change my initial mix. If I just mix a yard of soil all at once, I can't do this.
My veg space should be able to support perpetual better
it gives me a bit of time to recycle the soil at end of run, then use for the next veg
So in total I plan 16 earthboxes... 4 in Veg and 12 in Flower. I will use an 11 week haze that I love to start, and so will add one earthbox approx every 8 days. That will give them about 4 weeks in veg room (4x6). Setting up a wormbox for future use and have a compost tumbler, both of which I plan to keep inside under stairs.

My space is about 10x7, and has 4 x HLG 550 and C02 (sealed although I run a very slight continuous exhaust for fresh air ; yes this is different than keeping in sealed during lights on and exhausting at night).

Here is plan...





Not shown in the photo ; Anden 95 dehum, Mini Split AC, and 2x Hurricane Oscillating Fans, Fresh air intake (filtered) and 4" AC infinity for the slight exhaust.

Now to the MIX.
It's just a variation of Coots and Build a Soil and a lot of reading time spent on RIU.




(note: ocean farm fort organic mixes)

Also note:

I have Humic Acid for the Initial Mix.
I have Aloe Flakes and Yucca Powder
I have Gaia Green Power Bloom 2-8-4 for top dressing in Flower


Here was my reasoning on the mix of OSF, Gypsum and Pril Lime




FWIW I have purchased most of the above inputs, normally buying 10 or 20KG bags to save $$.
The final cost of the above recipe is $21.04CDN per f3; the pumice is the largest component of that cost. That having been said, its choice should hopefully allow me to recycle this mix long into the future and shouldn't break down like perlite.




Questions:

anything obvious I am missing?
does this plan make sense?
Are there any obvious errors I have made with respect to my initial mix?

Cheers!


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## raggyb (Sep 2, 2021)

hot_box_enthusiast said:


> Love this thread. About to embark on a mission into the SIP world and look forward to more learning and sharing. Being in Canada, I settled on trying some Gaia Green products for my amendments; and so *have made the same post in the Gaia Green thread*.
> 
> Looking for feedback on my plan which I will paste below. I have almost everything at this point and am ready to get mixing. I've been growing with PromixHP and Advanced Nutes up until now.
> 
> ...


i'll take a shot at a quick and dirty. like yours my base is something like 1/3 pete, 1/3 perlite, 1/6 ewc and 1/6 compost. then I added ammendments and wrote down all amounts. First time I did this I filled a cup with holes in the bottom and measured the ppm of the drainoff. it was like twice what I thought it should be, so I doubled the batch by adding double the base amounts and no ammendments. recalculated my formulas. ive been using that ever since and haven't felt much need to adjust that mix. different plants still need corrections sometimes and my mix may not be perfect but this method worked pretty well for me.


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## myke (Sep 2, 2021)

Why 7:1 Ca Mg? Thought it was more like 3:1.


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## myke (Sep 2, 2021)

So back when I transplanted I mentioned planting lower in the sip so roots would find the wick quicker.Well I filled this morning and their empty tonight.


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## myke (Sep 2, 2021)

I think they were pretty dry this morning,Ill bet half of the 8 litres went straight up the wick so an hour after I filled it was half empty.


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 2, 2021)

L


myke said:


> So back when I transplanted I mentioned planting lower in the sip so roots would find the wick quicker.Well I filled this morning and their empty tonight.


Damn that's fast!


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 2, 2021)

myke said:


> I think they were pretty dry this morning,Ill bet half of the 8 litres went straight up the wick so an hour after I filled it was half empty.


How long do you let them sit dry again?


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## myke (Sep 2, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> How long do you let them sit dry again?


Well this new to me,less soil this round.I think every two days now Ill fill.8 litres is my res.


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## Robar (Sep 3, 2021)

Well I have all materials needed to make 6 planters and am going to get started sometime this weekend. Got to thinking about soil and thought since I had a bale promix hp sitting around I would use it. What would you add to it? I have most the normal stuff on hand that an organic guy might be expected to have. Worm Castings, coast of maine lobster compost, kelp meal, bone meal crab meal, green sand and the list continues nearly into infinity. I'm also planing to use Garden-Tone (3-4-4) as my base fertilizer. The one thing I don't have on hand is perlite as I am out but will get some this weekend. 

I've read through a bunch of this thread and have seen different folks use different things so what would you add to promix HP? Any fancy layers anything that I should be aware of as far as this style of grow is concerned?

Also any last minute hot tips before I start cutting and drilling are welcome too. 

Totes I'm using are these 12 gal from homDep


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## myke (Sep 3, 2021)

Those look like mine their 10g 45L. Unless they make different sizes in the US?here I can get 45. 65. And 103 litre


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## Robar (Sep 3, 2021)

myke said:


> Those look like mine their 10g 45L. Unless they make different sizes in the US?here I can get 45. 65. And 103 litre


Yes we can get them in a lot of sizes. the interior size of these are 11x11x16 those are all rounded as there is point what ever after the whole number but you get the drift. As I was inspired but your grows and success with this planter I went with what I thought was close to yours. I like growing a bit bigger plant plus long flowering sativas so I thought the twelve gallon was a good choice.

***EDIT went back to where I posted actual measurements this is the real interior size. 15.75 in. L x 11.25 in. W x 11 in. H


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 3, 2021)

Day 20....





Any opinions, comments, criticism?


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## ilovereggae (Sep 3, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 20....
> 
> View attachment 4979060
> View attachment 4979061
> ...


they look beautiful


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 3, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> they look beautiful


Thanks man! I appreciate it!


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## myke (Sep 4, 2021)

Robar said:


> Yes we can get them in a lot of sizes. the interior size of these are 11x11x16 those are all rounded as there is point what ever after the whole number but you get the drift. As I was inspired but your grows and success with this planter I went with what I thought was close to yours. I like growing a bit bigger plant plus long flowering sativas so I thought the twelve gallon was a good choice.
> 
> ***EDIT went back to where I posted actual measurements this is the real interior size. 15.75 in. L x 11.25 in. W x 11 in. H


Unless my math is wrong thats 1.12 cuft.


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## Robar (Sep 4, 2021)

myke said:


> Unless my math is wrong thats 1.12 cuft.


You're right! Those dimensions must have come from a different tote I was looking at. I just went and measured the totes and they are 
(19L x 13.5 W x 12H) so 12 gal.

To the question of the promix. I guess what I'n trying to find out is how heavily would you fertilize the medium? Some lime and some kelp meal for something light or would you add more things to the promix. I get the top dress feeding idea but it seems like you want something in the soil too. Anyway thanks for the help it's appreciated.


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## myke (Sep 4, 2021)

Robar said:


> You're right! Those dimensions must have come from a different tote I was looking at. I just went and measured the totes and they are
> (19L x 13.5 W x 12H) so 12 gal.
> 
> To the question of the promix. I guess what I'n trying to find out is how heavily would you fertilize the medium? Some lime and some kelp meal for something light or would you add more things to the promix. I get the top dress feeding idea but it seems like you want something in the soil too. Anyway thanks for the help it's appreciated.


A cup per 5g,the gaia is well rounded but maybe low on N.I use frass ,kelp and alfalfa and the gaia when I mix with plain peat.
Never tried blood meal or any of the other hot amendments.


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## myke (Sep 4, 2021)

You can go as high as 3 cups per 7.5g if your letting it cook.Thats still pretty hot for a small plant.


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## Robar (Sep 4, 2021)

myke said:


> You can go as high as 3 cups per 7.5g if your letting it cook.Thats still pretty hot for a small plant.


No I didn't want to go hot. Was thinking keep the base soil a bit more mild and top dress. I usually grow in a super-soil mix but not everything is compatible with that style. I want to change direction and use a more mild soil mix that all plants will like and isn't so wasteful. Not trying to be cheap I'm just starting to think less might be more in the case of healthy productive plants and saving money is always a bonus.


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## myke (Sep 4, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 20....
> 
> View attachment 4979060
> View attachment 4979061
> ...


Lookin' good!


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 4, 2021)

myke said:


> Lookin' good!


Thanks man! I hope I can keep her there!


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## myke (Sep 4, 2021)

Robar said:


> No I didn't want to go hot. Was thinking keep the base soil a bit more mild and top dress. I usually grow in a super-soil mix but not everything is compatible with that style. I want to change direction and use a more mild soil mix that all plants will like and isn't so wasteful. Not trying to be cheap I'm just starting to think less might be more in the case of healthy productive plants and saving money is always a bonus.


This is why I went the route of Gaia,has everything just add some ewc and roll with it.Add the sips and Its really easy.I just mixed some promix hp and gaia for my rooted clones,chucked in a handful of perlite and ewc.


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## Robar (Sep 4, 2021)

myke said:


> This is why I went the route of Gaia,has everything just add some ewc and roll with it.Add the sips and Its really easy.I just mixed some promix hp and gaia for my rooted clones,chucked in a handful of perlite and ewc.


Thanks Myke I'll look into the Gaia


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## raggyb (Sep 4, 2021)

Robar said:


> Also any last minute hot tips before I start cutting and drilling are welcome too.
> 
> s I'm using are these 12 gal from homDep


measure twice cut once


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## myke (Sep 7, 2021)

12 ish days of 12/12. Lol 

topdress again approx 3 tbls veg and 2 tbls bloom Gaia and 2 cups ewc to each sip. Should do for another week. Getting a little thick in the canopy will do some thinning.


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 7, 2021)

myke said:


> 12 ish days of 12/12. Lol
> 
> topdress again approx 3 tbls veg and 2 tbls bloom Gaia and 2 cups ewc to each sip. Should do for another week. Getting a little thick in the canopy will do some thinning.View attachment 4981862View attachment 4981864


Damn you didn't flip much behind me! Lookin outstanding brother!


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 8, 2021)

Day 25.....






How is she looking?


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## ilovereggae (Sep 9, 2021)

earthbox action @ 6 weeks I think haven't kept track


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 11, 2021)

Day 28.....




She's eating a lot. I'm thinking I should up the craft blend from 1/4 cup a week to 1/2 cup a week.


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## Robar (Sep 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 28.....
> View attachment 4985107
> View attachment 4985108
> View attachment 4985109
> ...


Nice job Brother! She looks pretty nice to my eye.


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 12, 2021)

Robar said:


> Nice job Brother! She looks pretty nice to my eye.


Thanks man!


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## Robar (Sep 12, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> earthbox action @ 6 weeks I think haven't kept track
> View attachment 4983831
> View attachment 4983826View attachment 4983828View attachment 4983829View attachment 4983830


Looks great Man, nice frosty trim leaves too. I'll have to go back and read to see if you said what strain it is. How's she smell?


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## ilovereggae (Sep 12, 2021)

Robar said:


> Looks great Man, nice frosty trim leaves too. I'll have to go back and read to see if you said what strain it is. How's she smell?


thanks! there's actually 11 plants in there (yanked one underperformer). 8 of them in the back are Chile Verde, in the front have a AcaiGelato x KM11, a Guava Shoreline, and a White Runtz

a stank factory is what it smells like.


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 12, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> thanks! there's actually 11 plants in there (yanked one underperformer). 8 of them in the back are Chile Verde, in the front have a AcaiGelato x KM11, a Guava Shoreline, and a White Runtz
> 
> a stank factory is what it smells like.


They look great! What do you use for feed?


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## ilovereggae (Sep 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> They look great! What do you use for feed?


just planted in this supersoil mix ive adapted over the last few years, then mostly water. 1x a week they might get some kelp meal tea, ewc tea, coconut powder, and/or buildabloom thru the res. kind of just make it up as I go. They have been cruising along since day 1 though, so it all seems to keep them happy.

Recipe yields @ 3Cut ft of soil. Mixed and 'cooked' in a 32 gal plastic tote i got from Big Lots.

Sphagnum Peat Moss - 8 gallons
Earthworm Castings - 8 gallons
Pumice and/or Perlite - 8 gallons
DTE Vegan Mix - 7 cups
GrowMore or DTE Dolomite Lime - 3 Cups
BAS or DTE Kelp Meal - 1 1/2 cups
BAS Karanja Cake - 1 1/2 cups
BAS Bokashi - 1 cup
currently using castings from Worm Gold Plus and/or Organic Solutions, and a little of my own when I have enough but usually keep mine for teas and top dressing. havent needed to top dress this round at all though!


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 12, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> just planted in this supersoil mix ive adapted over the last few years, then mostly water. 1x a week they might get some kelp meal tea, ewc tea, coconut powder, and/or buildabloom thru the res. kind of just make it up as I go. They have been cruising along since day 1 though, so it all seems to keep them happy.
> 
> Recipe yields @ 3Cut ft of soil. Mixed and 'cooked' in a 32 gal plastic tote i got from Big Lots.
> 
> ...


Very cool! Build a bloom thru the res? Is that safe?


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## ilovereggae (Sep 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Very cool! Build a bloom thru the res? Is that safe?


it's water-soluble soluable and safe to use in the res yes in one of the first BAS earthbox videos he talks about it. I emailed them to confirm. They responded yes its cool just make sure you have good water roots before u do. I usually don't give them any until stretch is over anyway and by that time the roots are well into the res.

One other thing I will note I said a few pages back. Again from BAS recommended method, I dont keep the res topped off at all times. I fill it, let it get almost empty and then refill. occasionally I'll let them go dry for a day so that the soil dries out a little bit to give it a little wet dry cycle. Then will top it off again.


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## ilovereggae (Sep 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Very cool! Build a bloom thru the res? Is that safe?


also to note, Buildabloom like all my inputs are all vegan/plant based. I don't think there's anything to go "bad" sitting in the res. it will just sit there and make a tea for the plants to drink. not sure I would do this if I had any manure, guano, fish emulsion, etc in my soil.


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 12, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> it's water-soluble soluable and safe to use in the res yes in one of the first BAS earthbox videos he talks about it. I emailed them to confirm. They responded yes its cool just make sure you have good water roots before u do. I usually don't give them any until stretch is over anyway and by that time the roots are well into the res.
> 
> One other thing I will note I said a few pages back. Again from BAS recommended method, I dont keep the res topped off at all times. I fill it, let it get almost empty and then refill. occasionally I'll let them go dry for a day so that the soil dries out a little bit to give it a little wet dry cycle. Then will top it off again.


Ok, yea I remember you mentioning that now. I'm just starting week 5 so I'll start adding it. Do you add at every water? What strength?


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 12, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> also to note, Buildabloom like all my inputs are all vegan/plant based. I don't think there's anything to go "bad" sitting in the res. it will just sit there and make a tea for the plants to drink. not sure I would do this if I had any manure, guano, fish emulsion, etc in my soil.


I've watered in some Neptune's harvet once or twice, but I've switched to water soluble soybean amino just for N. I've watered in build a bloom and big 6 micros but thru the res might be better?


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## ilovereggae (Sep 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Ok, yea I remember you mentioning that now. I'm just starting week 5 so I'll start adding it. Do you add at every water? What strength?


Nope just maybe 1x a week. I feed it at the recommended tsp per gallon. I'm not a scientist tho so I'm sure sometimes the scoops are heavy. I figure the plain water on the other feedings will balance it all out.


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## ilovereggae (Sep 12, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> Nope just maybe 1x a week. I feed it at the recommended tsp per gallon. I'm not a scientist tho so I'm sure sometimes the scoops are heavy. I figure the plain water on the other feedings will balance it all out.


I forgot I did give them a little recharge a couple of times too


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## ilovereggae (Sep 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I've watered in some Neptune's harvet once or twice, but I've switched to water soluble soybean amino just for N. I've watered in build a bloom and big 6 micros but thru the res might be better?


no clue if top water or res is better. I just like keeping the covers on bc its pretty much eliminated pests for me. and watering thru the res is easier. having some of my best harvests yet so pretty happy either way.


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 12, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I forgot I did give them a little recharge a couple of times too


Would you add the big 6 micros plus humics to the res also?


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 12, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> no clue if top water or res is better. I just like keeping the covers on bc its pretty much eliminated pests for me. and watering thru the res is easier. having some of my best harvests yet so pretty happy either way.


I'm gonna give it a go. I just watered some in before I filled the res last time, so I'll do it next week.


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## ilovereggae (Sep 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Would you add the big 6 micros plus humics to the res also?


pretty much the same stuff as recharge so I don't see why not


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 12, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> pretty much the same stuff as recharge so I don't see why not


Cool man. Can't wait to try it!


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 13, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> pretty much the same stuff as recharge so I don't see why not


Hey man, do you think it would be safe to add the big 6 micros and build a bloom to the res at the same time? Or should I do them separately?


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## GreenBean 420 (Sep 14, 2021)

New to SIPS and going the build a soil route. Prolly get flamed for this but what’s everyone’s deal with the PH of the water they put in the reservoir? My tap is low ppm (100-150). However my PH is 8.3-8.4. Can the microbes handle adjusting that or should I try to bring it down to like 7 before filling etc?


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## myke (Sep 14, 2021)

GreenBean 420 said:


> New to SIPS and going the build a soil route. Prolly get flamed for this but what’s everyone’s deal with the PH of the water they put in the reservoir? My tap is low ppm (100-150). However my PH is 8.3-8.4. Can the microbes handle adjusting that or should I try to bring it down to like 7 before filling etc?


I’d think if there’s enough ewc/compost it will be fine. Plenty here grow organic in 8 pH water and don’t adjust.


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## Tim Fox (Sep 14, 2021)

GreenBean 420 said:


> New to SIPS and going the build a soil route. Prolly get flamed for this but what’s everyone’s deal with the PH of the water they put in the reservoir? My tap is low ppm (100-150). However my PH is 8.3-8.4. Can the microbes handle adjusting that or should I try to bring it down to like 7 before filling etc?


Part of.tje advantage of sips with awesome soil is that you don't have to pH your water ,


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## Tim Fox (Sep 14, 2021)

I find myself wondering if we are going to ad.nutes to the res and pour.teas over the top ect ect , why not.just grow in coco and get the full bore benefits of hydro without the work of a DWC , or go hempy bucks which is a sip with a res with nutes and get full blown hydro results , not knocking anyone I would never do that, but I gravitate towards easy inam lazy beyond measure and sips take all the work out , ,


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 14, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> I find myself wondering if we are going to ad.nutes to the res and pour.teas over the top ect ect , why not.just grow in coco and get the full bore benefits of hydro without the work of a DWC , or go hempy bucks which is a sip with a res with nutes and get full blown hydro results , not knocking anyone I would never do that, but I gravitate towards easy inam lazy beyond measure and sips take all the work out , ,


Can't do no till in coco.


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## myke (Sep 14, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> I find myself wondering if we are going to ad.nutes to the res and pour.teas over the top ect ect , why not.just grow in coco and get the full bore benefits of hydro without the work of a DWC , or go hempy bucks which is a sip with a res with nutes and get full blown hydro results , not knocking anyone I would never do that, but I gravitate towards easy inam lazy beyond measure and sips take all the work out , ,


Ive done coco,sips seam to do better.Ive grown several strains with coco and rdwc,buds are bigger in sips.Easier too.


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## myke (Sep 14, 2021)

I got one sip with promix hp and gaia,didnt cook it just mixed and planted,so far seams good.Ive added a little ewc.Cant get much easier.


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## Tim Fox (Sep 14, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Can't do no till in coco.


No till doesn't require nutes in a res, no till by it's very name doesn't require nutes in a res,


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## Tim Fox (Sep 14, 2021)

myke said:


> Ive done coco,sips seam to do better.Ive grown several strains with coco and rdwc,buds are bigger in sips.Easier too.


My buds were bigger in hydro than sips Everytime, but the size of the buds were not the question, honestly the smaller buds in my organic soil grow have exceeded my expectations


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## Tim Fox (Sep 14, 2021)

myke said:


> I got one sip with promix hp and gaia,didnt cook it just mixed and planted,so far seams good.Ive added a little ewc.Cant get much easier.


How do you flush your sips? Running pro hp,


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 14, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> No till doesn't require nutes in a res, no till by it's very name doesn't require nutes in a res,


Normally I just add water to the res. I just tonight added build a bloom to see how it does.


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 14, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> My buds were bigger in hydro than sips Everytime, but the size of the buds were not the question, honestly the smaller buds in my organic soil grow have exceeded my expectations


I do dwc too, but I wanted organic quality. I feel the sips are a good compromise between both.


----------



## myke (Sep 14, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> My buds were bigger in hydro than sips Everytime, but the size of the buds were not the question, honestly the smaller buds in my organic soil grow have exceeded my expectations


I found the hydro buds to shrink/dry down more then the organic ones.


----------



## myke (Sep 14, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> How do you flush your sips? Running pro hp,


Not sure what you mean?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 14, 2021)

I'm thinking about adding water soluble humics to the res also. I'm thinking it might help with N uptake. At least I'm hoping so. Lol


----------



## ilovereggae (Sep 14, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> I find myself wondering if we are going to ad.nutes to the res and pour.teas over the top ect ect , why not.just grow in coco and get the full bore benefits of hydro without the work of a DWC , or go hempy bucks which is a sip with a res with nutes and get full blown hydro results , not knocking anyone I would never do that, but I gravitate towards easy inam lazy beyond measure and sips take all the work out , ,


I went with bigger containers hoping that way I don't need to feed through the res. 2 plants per earthbox Jr is only 5 gal of soil so 2.5. gal per plant. Hoping that 4 gal per plant is enough nutes this time I can get away water only til the end. We will see.


----------



## GrassBurner (Sep 14, 2021)

Flipped the Goji's a few days ago. Did some defoliation and training. Added my dry ammendments, and topped that with a layer of compost. 
Really excited about these girls, grew a couple last year and they were incredible


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I went with bigger containers hoping that way I don't need to feed through the res. 2 plants per earthbox Jr is only 5 gal of soil so 2.5. gal per plant. Hoping that 4 gal per plant is enough nutes this time I can get away water only til the end. We will see.


It wasn't for me, but I'm using bas 3.0. I'm getting some yellowing in week 5. I'm trying to keep the N up a bit longer but she's eating a lot of it. Hopefully the lil N in the build a bloom, thru the res will help.


----------



## GreenBean 420 (Sep 15, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> It wasn't for me, but I'm using bas 3.0. I'm getting some yellowing in week 5. I'm trying to keep the N up a bit longer but she's eating a lot of it. Hopefully the lil N in the build a bloom, thru the res will help.


Got any pics!!?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

GreenBean 420 said:


> Got any pics!!?


Of the yellowing?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

GreenBean 420 said:


> Got any pics!!?


You can see the yellowing here.....


----------



## myke (Sep 15, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> You can see the yellowing here.....
> 
> View attachment 4987568


Big plants need big food lol.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

GreenBean 420 said:


> Got any pics!!?


I'm not blaming the soil. I vegged her out 4 weeks. Should've flipped her sooner but I wanted the scrog filled.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

myke said:


> Big plants need big food lol.


Yea I've realized that now. My problem is keeping up with it. I've been giving her a weak watering of soybean aminos. It has a npk of 15-0-0. I cut the ratio down to 3.5-0-0. Think I might raise it to 7-0-0. I just wanted to see if the weaker dose would work.

I've also been top dressing with 1/4 cup craft blend and 3 cups ewc. I just raised the craft blend to a 1/2 cup last night.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

myke said:


> Big plants need big food lol.


I know, I know..... you gave me sound advice already. I was just trying to use what I have on hand. Don't think I don't take your advice seriously.


----------



## myke (Sep 15, 2021)

My first round I also had N deficiency and just barely kept up.Thats why this round Im topdressing a lot more.Grow and learn,you'll know what to do next round.


----------



## myke (Sep 15, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea I've realized that now. My problem is keeping up with it. I've been giving her a weak watering of soybean aminos. It has a npk of 15-0-0. I cut the ratio down to 3.5-0-0. Think I might raise it to 7-0-0. I just wanted to see if the weaker dose would work.
> 
> I've also been top dressing with 1/4 cup craft blend and 3 cups ewc. I just raised the craft blend to a 1/2 cup last night.


Top water over your food daily,should help speed it up.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

myke said:


> Top water over your food daily,should help speed it up.


 How much? Just enough to moisten?


----------



## myke (Sep 15, 2021)

I was thinking of adding blood meal for the extra N in my soil for next round.Its cooking now so I have time.


----------



## myke (Sep 15, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> How much? Just enough to moisten?


I can pour a solo cups worth over my trench daily no problems ,so 16oz.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

myke said:


> I was thinking of adding blood meal for the extra N in my soil for next round.Its cooking now so I have time.


Blood meal and guano make me nervous. Lol


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

myke said:


> I can pour a solo cups worth over my trench daily no problems ,so 16oz.


Will do! Thanks again bro.


----------



## myke (Sep 15, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Blood meal and guano make me nervous. Lol


Ha, well my Gaia 444 has blood meal in it just needs a little more me thinks.I try to keep it simple and not buy too much stuff.Insect frass is another option or alfalfa meal.I bought a 20kg bag of alfalfa pellets I soak them to puff them up then dry them out.Grind them up and add to my soil.Was cheap $15 for what looks like a lifetime supply.


----------



## Autodoctor (Sep 15, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> This is what I've got going on now. I started the hydro about a month behind the sip.
> 
> View attachment 4970637
> This pic makes me very happy! Lol


 so sip on left and hydro on the right


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

Autodoctor said:


> so sip on left and hydro on the right


Hydro left, sip right.


----------



## myke (Sep 15, 2021)

Day 21 today. Sipping along. Drinking 8 litres a day each.
top dressed again. Going out on a limb and just gave them flower instead of a mix veg/flower. 6 tablespoons ea. Will give them a mix next week.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

myke said:


> Day 21 today. Sipping along. Drinking 8 litres a day each.
> top dressed again. Going out on a limb and just gave them flower instead of a mix veg/flower. 6 tablespoons ea. Will give them a mix next week.View attachment 4988106View attachment 4988107


Hell yea bro! Looking fucking killer!


----------



## myke (Sep 15, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Hell yea bro! Looking fucking killer!


Im on the edge of light burn,the Mars 250 is way more powerful then my 48W strips.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

myke said:


> Im on the edge of light burn,the Mars 250 is way more powerful then my 48W strips.


Is a board right?


----------



## myke (Sep 15, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Is a board right?


Not sure what you're asking,another words, What?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

myke said:


> Not sure what you're asking,another words, What?


Is it quantum board style?


----------



## myke (Sep 15, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Is it quantum board style?


Yes meanwell driver samsung diodes is all I know,lol.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

I have a cob fixture, qb fixtures, and strip fixtures. The strips run very cool. Plants can almost touch them without any burn or stress that I've noticed the qbs are a lil better but the cobs will burn the shit out of them under 12" with my fixture.


----------



## myke (Sep 15, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I have a cob fixture, qb fixtures, and strip fixtures. The strips run very cool. Plants can almost touch them without any burn or stress that I've noticed the qbs are a lil better but the cobs will burn the shit out of them under 12" with my fixture.


Yea I need the heat.was hoping I won’t need a HPS this winter. I think I still will.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

myke said:


> Yea I need the heat.was hoping I won’t need a HPS this winter. I think I still will.


Wish I had that problem. I pump in cold air in the winter to cool my room. It's still cheaper than running my ac at 70 all summer.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

Day 32.....






Man I swear the more N I give, the more she eats. Do they progressively consume more thru the weeks?


----------



## GrassBurner (Sep 15, 2021)

Seems like they'll eat about as much as you give them, they're like teenagers


----------



## myke (Sep 15, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 32.....
> 
> View attachment 4988151
> View attachment 4988152
> ...


Should slow down week 7 in a 10 week strain.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

myke said:


> Should slow down week 7 in a 10 week strain.


Ok cool. I'll just keep dumping in nitrogen until then. Once she slows down on N, do they increase consumption of anything else?


----------



## myke (Sep 15, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Ok cool. I'll just keep dumping in nitrogen until then. Once she slows down on N, do they increase consumption of anything else?


No. Slows down on everything. Keep up with P and K also though. You see some of these no till grows adding cover crops to consume excess Nitrogen after week 7-8 ish. Goes to show yea just how much soil /food has to be available to grow big plants.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

myke said:


> No. Slows down on everything. Keep up with P and K also though. You see some of these no till grows adding cover crops to consume excess Nitrogen after week 7-8 ish. Goes to show yea just how much soil /food has to be available to grow big plants.


Yea I've learned that now. I just need to figure out how much food and when. I'd like to not have to water in anything and just let the soil feed the plant.


----------



## myke (Sep 15, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Wish I had that problem. I pump in cold air in the winter to cool my room. It's still cheaper than running my ac at 70 all summer.


My vent goes outside,wish I could re use it.My wife has one rule about me growing, that smell.Venting outside makes that happen.


----------



## myke (Sep 15, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea I've learned that now. I just need to figure out how much food and when. I'd like to not have to water in anything and just let the soil feed the plant.


Need a 30g sip or bigger I think,but still needs something.Grow smaller plants is probably the only way to go water only.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 15, 2021)

myke said:


> Need a 30g sip or bigger I think,but still needs something.Grow smaller plants is probably the only way to go water only.


Yea, I'm thinking bigger sip also. I dunno how Jeremy from bas does it with the earthboxes. His plants get pretty big also, and he doesn't feed all that much.


----------



## Xsan (Sep 15, 2021)

myke said:


> My vent goes outside,wish I could re use it.My wife has one rule about me growing, that smell.Venting outside makes that happen.


Same boat here, gotta keep the boss happy


----------



## SlownLow86 (Sep 16, 2021)

Finally jumped on the SIP train. It's BY FAR the easiest way I've grown. These are some heirloom Maui Wowie from Sebring Seeds at a month old.


----------



## GreenBean 420 (Sep 16, 2021)

myke said:


> Yea I need the heat.was hoping I won’t need a HPS this winter. I think I still will.


I am also worried about needing more heat this winter. My temps right now with the lights at 20in at 80% are only like 74 degrees and 69 lights out. Everything getting purple this holiday season!!! Haha


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 16, 2021)

So the build a soil growers secret nitrogen.....

It says 1 teaspoon per gallon. Anyone think it's safe to run full strength?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 16, 2021)

Fuck it. I'm gonna try 16oz. of it and see what happens, but I'm wondering if that can be added to the res....


----------



## myke (Sep 16, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Fuck it. I'm gonna try 16oz. of it and see what happens, but I'm wondering if that can be added to the res....


Mostly water soluble so tread lightly. Maybe 3 weeks ago would have been good at full but Is do a test. Give a 1/4 and see.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 16, 2021)

myke said:


> Mostly water soluble so tread lightly. Maybe 3 weeks ago would have been good at full but Is do a test. Give a 1/4 and see.


 Lol for sure. I have been watering in 500 ml of 1/4 strength every other day when the res empties. It's not enough apparently though, unless I should do the 16 oz daily maybe?


----------



## myke (Sep 16, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Lol for sure. I have been watering in 500 ml of 1/4 strength every other day when the res empties. It's not enough apparently though, unless I should do the 16 oz daily maybe?


If you see the green fade then add more. If the green stays the same stay with what your doing. I don’t think you can get them dark green again. That would be too much.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 16, 2021)

myke said:


> If you see the green fade then add more. If the green stays the same stay with what your doing. I don’t think you can get them dark green again. That would be too much.


I agree. At this point though I would like the fade to at least slow down. I'm nervous about adding it to the res. I am gonna up the rate from 1/4 tsp to 1/2 tsp and water in 500 ml. That's not too extreme right?


----------



## myke (Sep 16, 2021)

Add to the the top I’d think would be better. Water it in.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 16, 2021)

myke said:


> Add to the the top I’d think would be better. Water it in.


Just did! Lol


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 16, 2021)

myke said:


> Add to the the top I’d think would be better. Water it in.


Hey man, I just wanna say thanks for the help and knowledge. And for putting up with my paranoid, constant question asking ass! Lol.... seriously I appreciate it!


----------



## myke (Sep 17, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Hey man, I just wanna say thanks for the help and knowledge. And for putting up with my paranoid, constant question asking ass! Lol.... seriously I appreciate it!


No problem at all,Im learning from you also.So thanks right back.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 18, 2021)

Day 35.....







Yellowing has slowed and buds are getting bigger!


----------



## myke (Sep 18, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 35.....
> 
> View attachment 4990297
> View attachment 4990298
> ...


Ill bet the smell is amazing?


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 18, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Blood meal and guano make me nervous. Lol


Why? The reason organic farmers don't use these is mainly because of the horrible practices that are used to obtain them. They are amazingly useful products but yeah it's literal blood drained from an Animal and dried for your plants (FEED ME SYMORE!!!) and bat poop harvested by destroying their caves.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 18, 2021)

myke said:


> Ill bet the smell is amazing?


Not really. I have my exhaust on 24/7. It keeps the smell down considerably.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 18, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Why? The reason organic farmers don't use these is mainly because of the horrible practices that are used to obtain them. They are amazingly useful products but yeah it's literal blood drained from an Animal and dried for your plants (FEED ME SYMORE!!!) and bat poop harvested by destroying their caves.


They're hot! Lol


----------



## Soul Dwella (Sep 18, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 35.....
> 
> View attachment 4990297
> View attachment 4990298
> ...


35 days from the day you switched to 12/12?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 19, 2021)

Soul Dwella said:


> 35 days from the day you switched to 12/12?


Yes... sorry.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 19, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> They're hot! Lol


Siiiigh when people talk about organic soil being hot they literally mean the heat. Those amendments are not anything like a salt based fertilizer is "hot".


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 19, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Siiiigh when people talk about organic soil being hot they literally mean the heat. Those amendments are not anything like a salt based fertilizer is "hot".


Sorry. I know what you mean. I just meant you have to be careful how much you give as not to over nute. I haven't experimented with them yet but I'm sure I soon will.


----------



## myke (Sep 19, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Siiiigh when people talk about organic soil being hot they literally mean the heat. Those amendments are not anything like a salt based fertilizer is "hot".


My Dad used blood meal in the garden for the first time many years ago.Went to work and came back to our dog had dug most of it up!Wasnt a good day for the dog.We had fences around every year after that.


----------



## Soul Dwella (Sep 19, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yes... sorry.


Looking good!


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 19, 2021)

Soul Dwella said:


> Looking good!


Thanks man!


----------



## Shiggity (Sep 20, 2021)

Dynastygenetics Huckleberry dieselv2 went into a 27 gallon HD tote SIP this evening. I use drain tile wrapped in landscape fabric and a central wick of vertical drain tile with soil. I use Docbuds soil that has been cooked for a month.

Decided to try out some aeration channels. Just 4” perforated drain tile with tile wrap.


here is my bulkhead and water level indicator. The bulkhead is about halfway up the drain tile. I think it holds about 4-5 gallons of water. I can also turn the indicator downward to empty the SIP if needed. Need to change the tube it’s pretty dirty. Maybe just needs a tooth brushing. It’s a rubber grommet with a plastic 90 and some clear tubing. I will raise the SIP up so I can actually drain it. Docs method changes drenches so I will drain one out if it’s not empty and replace it with another.

Here is the girl. She’s about 36 days from seed.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 20, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> Dynastygenetics Huckleberry dieselv2 went into a 27 gallon HD tote SIP this evening. I use drain tile wrapped in landscape fabric and a central wick of vertical drain tile with soil. I use Docbuds soil that has been cooked for a month.
> View attachment 4991781
> Decided to try out some aeration channels. Just 4” perforated drain tile with tile wrap.
> View attachment 4991782
> ...


It could be me, but it looks overwatered a lil. Cool idea though!


----------



## Shiggity (Sep 20, 2021)

She is actually drooping from being under watered. I let her go dry before transferring her over. Helps the pots come off!
The soil was watered from the top for the first time so I can get the wicking action to start. So that may be the overwatering you are seeing also.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 20, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> She is actually drooping from being under watered. I let her go dry before transferring her over. Helps the pots come off!
> The soil was watered from the top for the first time so I can get the wicking action to start. So that may be the overwatering you are seeing also.


For sure. Turgor looked good to me so I thought maybe a lil overwater.


----------



## myke (Sep 20, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> Dynastygenetics Huckleberry dieselv2 went into a 27 gallon HD tote SIP this evening. I use drain tile wrapped in landscape fabric and a central wick of vertical drain tile with soil. I use Docbuds soil that has been cooked for a month.
> View attachment 4991781
> Decided to try out some aeration channels. Just 4” perforated drain tile with tile wrap.
> View attachment 4991782
> ...


If the soil is damp she won’t need water in the res for 3-4 days. Let her roots reach out then she’ll start wicking. Looks good.


----------



## Shiggity (Sep 20, 2021)

myke said:


> If the soil is damp she won’t need water in the res for 3-4 days. Let her roots reach out then she’ll start wicking. Looks good.


Thanks man. This is only my second time using SIPs. The first time I never made it to harvest. Got busted and hit jail for a year. Now my state is legal for 4 plants.


----------



## myke (Sep 20, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> Thanks man. This is only my second time using SIPs. The first time I never made it to harvest. Got busted and hit jail for a year. Now my state is legal for 4 plants.


Yikes. Well um. Stay low? Idk. Ha.edit. Good for you. Small plant big sip. Will take some time for roots to find the res. Keep the top covered. Good luck.


----------



## Shiggity (Sep 20, 2021)

myke said:


> Yikes. Well um. Stay low? Idk. Ha.edit. Good for you. Small plant big sip. Will take some time for roots to find the res. Keep the top covered. Good luck.


Lol thx. I’m staying under 4 so I figure one SIP in a 4x4 will do it for yield. This is my first time growing the strain so will trellis her but not scrog yet.


----------



## myke (Sep 20, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> Lol thx. I’m staying under 4 so I figure one SIP in a 4x4 will do it for yield. This is my first time growing the strain so will trellis her but not scrog yet.


Well if you plan on growing her big. Keep up with top dressing.


----------



## Shiggity (Sep 20, 2021)

myke said:


> Well if you plan on growing her big. Keep up with top dressing.


I will be using various teas and foliars throughout flower. I will add some top dress as soon as I flip.but I am definitely here for additional guidance and appreciate any help!!


----------



## myke (Sep 20, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> I will be using various teas and foliars throughout flower. I will add some top dress as soon as I flip.


I ran two tomato plants in 27 g sips this year. Plants are 14’ tall with 3 mains of each. They drink 5 gallons every two days now. I’ll get a pic


----------



## myke (Sep 20, 2021)

Hard to see


----------



## myke (Sep 20, 2021)

Another


----------



## Shiggity (Sep 20, 2021)

She’s climbing the rafters eh? It’s an amazing canopy up there.


----------



## myke (Sep 20, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> She’s climbing the rafters eh? It’s an amazing canopy up there.


Yea too bad it’s near freezing at night now. She’ll be dead soon.


----------



## myke (Sep 20, 2021)

Goes to show what a 27 gallon sip can do though. You’ll have to grow your plants 10’ before you flip. Lol.


----------



## Shiggity (Sep 20, 2021)

This girl is half sour diesel so it just may happen.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 20, 2021)

myke said:


> Well if you plan on growing her big. Keep up with top dressing.


Truth!!!


----------



## myke (Sep 20, 2021)

My soil goes about a month with 5 gallons before you see deficiency. So a 27 gallon should go 5 months. Idk haven’t tried. I will next round though. I’ll put two plants in each and see.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 20, 2021)

myke said:


> My soil goes about a month with 5 gallons before you see deficiency. So a 27 gallon should go 5 months. Idk haven’t tried. I will next round though. I’ll put two plants in each and see.


I didn't start seeing deficiency in mine until a few weeks into flower but I top dressed often in veg.


----------



## myke (Sep 20, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I didn't start seeing deficiency in mine until a few weeks into flower but I top dressed often in veg.


Yeah stretch consume a lot. I’m a believer of timing stretch and roots hitting res at the same time. That’s when the hydro growth happens.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 20, 2021)

myke said:


> Yeah stretch consume a lot. I’m a believer of timing stretch and roots hitting res at the same time. That’s when the hydro growth happens.


So you flip right away then?


----------



## myke (Sep 20, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> So you flip right away then?


I transplant 2 gallon pots (2mo veg) into 8 gallons of soil. Two weeks later I flip. Timing seams to be right so far.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 20, 2021)

myke said:


> I transplant 2 gallon pots (2mo veg) into 8 gallons of soil. Two weeks later I flip. Timing seams to be right so far.


I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.


----------



## myke (Sep 20, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.


I found when you transplant or up pot roots go crazy and grow really quickly. With sips the soil stays so wet you’d think it’s overwatering but so far it’s worked. I’d think it’s a completely different ball game putting a small plant in a big sip? Haven’t done that yet. Small veg room so can’t fit sips in there.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 20, 2021)

myke said:


> I found when you transplant or up pot roots go crazy and grow really quickly. With sips the soil stays so wet you’d think it’s overwatering but so far it’s worked. I’d think it’s a completely different ball game putting a small plant in a big sip? Haven’t done that yet. Small veg room so can’t fit sips in there.


I wanna try planting a seed in one.


----------



## myke (Sep 20, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I wanna try planting a seed in one.


Last round I had a small plant that never really took off like the rest. At harvest when I tipped the soil out it had a bad smell.Too wet. So it’s possible to overwater. I’d think a seed would need top watering for a month first. Idk.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 20, 2021)

myke said:


> Last round I had a small plant that never really took off like the rest. At harvest when I tipped the soil out it had a bad smell.Too wet. So it’s possible to overwater. I’d think a seed would need top watering for a month first. Idk.


I feel with a cover crop growing simultaneously it might just make it.


----------



## GrassBurner (Sep 21, 2021)

I've grown quite a few plants from seedlings in the sips. I popped my seeds in Jiffy Pucks, then transplanted directly into the sip, and gave them maybe 1/4 cup of water. Seems like it takes 3-4 days for the roots to hit the reservoir, and they're off to the races

Day 1


Day 18


----------



## myke (Sep 21, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I've grown quite a few plants from seedlings in the sips. I popped my seeds in Jiffy Pucks, then transplanted directly into the sip, and gave them maybe 1/4 cup of water. Seems like it takes 3-4 days for the roots to hit the reservoir, and they're off to the races
> 
> Day 1
> View attachment 4991888
> ...


How big are those sips?They look good.


----------



## GrassBurner (Sep 21, 2021)

I want to say they hold 1.5 cu ft of soil. Footprint is 20"x24".


----------



## raggyb (Sep 21, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> Dynastygenetics Huckleberry dieselv2 went into a 27 gallon HD tote SIP this evening. I use drain tile wrapped in landscape fabric and a central wick of vertical drain tile with soil. I use Docbuds soil that has been cooked for a month.
> View attachment 4991781
> Decided to try out some aeration channels. Just 4” perforated drain tile with tile wrap.
> View attachment 4991782
> ...


Have you tried this SIP yet? How's it working for you?


----------



## raggyb (Sep 21, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> Lol thx. I’m staying under 4 so I figure one SIP in a 4x4 will do it for yield. This is my first time growing the strain so will trellis her but not scrog yet.


sorry ignore my last i needed to read on. I was wondering if the roots can get through the wrap. i get that you wouldn't want dirt to get through. i was thinking maybe a layer of vermiculite to stop dirt instead of the wrap but wonder what others think?


----------



## raggyb (Sep 21, 2021)

myke said:


> AnotherView attachment 4991828


thought you had a transparent roof. is that new?


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## myke (Sep 21, 2021)

raggyb said:


> thought you had a transparent roof. is that new?


No same roof,night photo with flash makes it look different.


----------



## myke (Sep 21, 2021)

raggyb said:


> sorry ignore my last i needed to read on. I was wondering if the roots can get through the wrap. i get that you wouldn't want dirt to get through. i was thinking maybe a layer of vermiculite to stop dirt instead of the wrap but wonder what others think?


Most of what ive seen on outdoor raised beds dont put fabric just gravel i think?Will see what shig says.


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## myke (Sep 21, 2021)

Daytime shot ,sun is much lower now. I’m at 51N


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 21, 2021)

myke said:


> Daytime shot ,sun is much lower now. I’m at 51NView attachment 4992165


Those lids look scorched. Lol


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## myke (Sep 21, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Those lids look scorched. Lol


Black spray paint,wife didnt like the yellow.Only had a little so thats what she got.


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 21, 2021)

myke said:


> Black spray paint,wife didnt like the yellow.Only had a little so thats what she got.


Yea that's what I figured. It just looked funny to me at first.


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## Shiggity (Sep 21, 2021)

Roots do get down there I can tell because the planter hooks up and the growth gets big fast. I wanted to try and minimize the amount of root growth down there a little just to keep most of the roots feeding from the soil. But in the end they get down there anyway.


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## Hash Hound (Sep 21, 2021)

cleaned up the garden today and took apart the SIPs. Both sips grew to 66" tall and the branches were so heavy they were falling over with fruit.

This one had two 1/2" wicks. It had a few toms with blossom rot but nothing wide spread. And there were two root masses
about two feet long in the bucket coming off the wicks


this was more traditional SIP with a small cup.




this one was a simple colander in a bucket with a hole about 3 " up. The toms did ok but they were from seeds from my grandfathers home town in Italy different that the others.


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## myke (Sep 21, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> cleaned up the garden today and took apart the SIPs. Both sips grew to 66" tall and the branches were so heavy they were falling over with fruit.
> 
> This one had two 1/2" wicks. It had a few toms with blossom rot but nothing wide spread. And there were two root masses
> about two feet long in the bucket coming off the wicks
> ...


So which one won the side by side?Or which was your fav since height was the same?


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## Hash Hound (Sep 21, 2021)

myke said:


> So which one won the side by side?Or which was your fav since height was the same?


I would have to give the edge to the SIP with the cup since there were no blossom end rots on it. 
Both had to have the reservoirs refilled daily so if I do outdoor SIPs again I'll definitely have to use larger reservoir or auto fill of some kind.


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## GrassBurner (Sep 21, 2021)

Hash Hound said:


> I would have to give the edge to the SIP with the cup since there were no blossom end rots on it.
> Both had to have the reservoirs refilled daily so if I do outdoor SIPs again I'll definitely have to use larger reservoir or auto fill of some kind.


I've been thinking of a big sip for outdoors. You could use a big plastic tote with a metal frame. Cut about 18" off the top. Then build a square floating platform a couple inches smaller than the opening. Attach wicks to your pots or fabric bed through the platform. Set your 1 inch air gap, and it stays the same as the water level changes. Would probably have a 100-150 gallon reservoir, with a built in and threaded drain


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## Shiggity (Sep 21, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I've been thinking of a big sip for outdoors. You could use a big plastic tote with a metal frame. Cut about 18" off the top. Then build a square floating platform a couple inches smaller than the opening. Attach wicks to your pots or fabric bed through the platform. Set your 1 inch air gap, and it stays the same as the water level changes. Would probably have a 100-150 gallon reservoir, with a built in and threaded drain


I remember I saw someone who grew outdoors in a great big tub. Filled the bottom with diapers and then added the soil. I would definitely call it a SIP.


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## myke (Sep 21, 2021)

Was at HD they now have 206L 54G HDX totes.Wheels are turning now lol.


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## Shiggity (Sep 21, 2021)

myke said:


> Was at HD they now have 206L 54G HDX totes.Wheels are turning now lol.


I have some of those that I cook my soil in. They are nice and sturdy.


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## myke (Sep 21, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> I have some of those that I cook my soil in. They are nice and sturdy.


Yeah we're a little behind here in Canada lol.They look strong but geez full of wet soil thats what 500lbs lol


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## Shiggity (Sep 21, 2021)

myke said:


> Yeah we're a little behind here in Canada lol.They look strong but geez full of wet soil thats what 500lbs lol


Yeah I don’t move them when they are cooking.


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## Shiggity (Sep 21, 2021)

Huckleberry dieselV2 recovering from her transplant and getting some water to the roots. This girl is compact and I am expecting some big growth soon.


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 21, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> View attachment 4992433Huckleberry dieselV2 recovering from her transplant and getting some water to the roots. This girl is compact and I am expecting some big growth soon.


Looks like you had something munching on the leaves?


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## Shiggity (Sep 21, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Looks like you had something munching on the leaves?


That was just me lol. Those were impacting the hard plastic rim. I do think I had one or two that looked like mice chomps in the basement. So traps with peanut butter went out. It’s an old house.


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## GrassBurner (Sep 21, 2021)

DLA 5 x Goji Og are loving life. Just flipped then to flower about a week ago. Plan was to perpetual grow using the 2x4 for veg and 4x4 for flower. Spider mites launched an assault in the big tent, and I'm not taking any chances. So they'll flower in the 2x4


Grew this plant last year and loved it!! Beautiful nugs and killer smoke. Front plant looks similar to the plant I grew before. Took 8 clones off of it, hoping to make a mother out of one cline so I can try a sip sog. 
Made a little cloner, hopefully it works  Used a little plastic tote, and a jet pump with aerator tube. taped everything up to seal out light, and dropped them in. Added some multi zen and ph'd the water to 5.5 We'll know in a week or two


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## Shiggity (Sep 22, 2021)

Because she was wilted when I put her in, just wanted to show you the huckleberry dieselV2 girl has fully recovered and will soon reach out and connect with the reservoir.


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## PhillupJane (Sep 22, 2021)

Thank you everybody for sharing! I read almost the whole thread and a bunch of related threads involving these SIP's. It also led me to find SWICK's and I'm playing around with both ideas. I love the ground water concept!

I rigged up a little make due SWICK to help me keep up with the watering for my lady in flower. I also started 2 seeds in a SIP that I made out of a 10 gallon fabric pot, 4" net pot, and a short wide storage bin that the 10 gal pot sits on. They are wrapped with panda film. I haven't fully saturated the 10 gal or hooked the seedlings up to the SIP yet, as I'm waiting for the third node or so to do so.

I need to take some more pics! I'll also be keeping updates on my grow journal I just started https://www.rollitup.org/t/20-gal-of-gold.1062838/page-2#post-16551935

Amazing stuff here guys keep killing it


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 22, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> I remember I saw someone who grew outdoors in a great big tub. Filled the bottom with diapers and then added the soil. I would definitely call it a SIP.


Good lord...


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## Shiggity (Sep 23, 2021)

Three days before the bust a few years ago it was day 22 post flip. Hoping I get further this time lol. Kind of emotional posting these pics.
These are all 27 gallon Home Depot open top SIPS
Sour bubble

Gorilladosha

Group shot with megafauna in the middle


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## Nwtexan (Sep 23, 2021)

Wondering what people are doing with SIPS and humidity? I have a growbox that has been in the garden and I just pulled it inside. I have about 400 W of LED and pretty good circulation with fans. I have a 6" vent fan on an Inkbird system and the fan is constantly on since bringing it in. I can't seem to get the humidity down, and the constant venting is keeping it cooler than Id like. 
I'm ok for now as I'm early in flower, but surprised as with my setup Ive never needed a dehumidifier before. 

The growbox has a burlap type material. Maybe it would be better with some black plastic over it? Anyone experience anything like this?


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## myke (Sep 23, 2021)

Nwtexan said:


> Wondering what people are doing with SIPS and humidity? I have a growbox that has been in the garden and I just pulled it inside. I have about 400 W of LED and pretty good circulation with fans. I have a 6" vent fan on an Inkbird system and the fan is constantly on since bringing it in. I can't seem to get the humidity down, and the constant venting is keeping it cooler than Id like.
> I'm ok for now as I'm early in flower, but surprised as with my setup Ive never needed a dehumidifier before.
> 
> The growbox has a burlap type material. Maybe it would be better with some black plastic over it? Anyone experience anything like this?


Ya cover the dirt,see if it helps.I know my plastic totes cover keep the light out but humidity it escapes.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 23, 2021)

myke said:


> Ya cover the dirt,see if it helps.I know my plastic totes cover keep the light out but humidity it escapes.


@Nwtexan 

you might also want to cover the water pipe hole. But yes this has been an issue for me sometimes also.


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## Shiggity (Sep 23, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> @Nwtexan
> 
> you might also want to cover the water pipe hole. But yes this has been an issue for me sometimes also.


At the mention of water pipe hole I got the image of someone putting a slide in the side of the sip and using it like a bong.


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## myke (Sep 23, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> @Nwtexan
> 
> you might also want to cover the water pipe hole. But yes this has been an issue for me sometimes also.


next trip to HD Im gettin' caps for my vacuum flow pipe


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 23, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> At the mention of water pipe hole I got the image of someone putting a slide in the side of the sip and using it like a bong.


hmmmmmm now you have me thinking I have to make this just for shits and giggles!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 23, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> At the mention of water pipe hole I got the image of someone putting a slide in the side of the sip and using it like a bong.


Some background I also back in the early 2000's had this BRILLIANT business idea I wanted to make... people would send me pics or random shit they wanted to have made into a bong, I would quote them a number and if agreed they would mail it to me I would then craft it into said bong and mail it back. It was going to be called "Hit Dis!" and the logo was going to be the planet turned into a make shift bong... Pipe dreams.... as it were hahahaha


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## PhillupJane (Sep 23, 2021)

2 seedlings in a 10 gal fabric pot SIP set up outside




Keep in mind that's about as much sun as they get!
The big girl leaves them shaded for most of the best sun exposure, and they receive mostly indirect/diffused light. They have also been started near harvest time! LOL 

A few experiments going on at once. 
2 in a pot, off season crops, SIP's, and growing without much light are all new to me. All of these methods will recieve additional more controlled experiments and side by sides in the future, but it's a start and it adds fun to the grow! We'll see how they do LOL


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## Shiggity (Sep 24, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Some background I also back in the early 2000's had this BRILLIANT business idea I wanted to make... people would send me pics or random shit they wanted to have made into a bong, I would quote them a number and if agreed they would mail it to me I would then craft it into said bong and mail it back. It was going to be called "Hit Dis!" and the logo was going to be the planet turned into a make shift bong... Pipe dreams.... as it were hahahaha


A SIP bong would bring new meaning to the words “dirty bong water”


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 25, 2021)

Day 41 flower....





I been able to slow the fade, and she filled out a lil bit. Next run I need to remember to feed heavy N to week 7.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 25, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 41 flower....
> 
> View attachment 4995634
> View attachment 4995635
> ...


Looking beautiful man! Is she just one plant?


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 25, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Looking beautiful man! Is she just one plant?


Yup just one. She's got a big appetite that's hard to keep up with. Lol


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## Shiggity (Sep 26, 2021)

I bet just a topping of ewc would help quite a bit with the nitrogen without going overboard.


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## Hollatchaboy (Sep 26, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> I bet just a topping of ewc would help quite a bit with the nitrogen without going overboard.


I watered in some water soluble soybean aminos. It's 15-0-0 but I diluted 50%. Plus I had build a bloom in the res 2 days before. I think that's how I was able to slow down the fade. I keep throwing N at her and she keeps eating it right up! Lol... thanks for the tip though. I might try that next feeding and see what happens!


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## raggyb (Sep 29, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> Roots do get down there I can tell because the planter hooks up and the growth gets big fast. I wanted to try and minimize the amount of root growth down there a little just to keep most of the roots feeding from the soil. But in the end they get down there anyway.


sounds like a good idea.


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## GrassBurner (Sep 29, 2021)

They grow up so fast  Two Goji's getting ready to go into the big tent to spread their wings. 

My home made cloner seems to be doing the job. Fingers crossed this will be a healthy mother plant


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## Tim Fox (Oct 1, 2021)

Let's get this show on the road , first the soil mix , this will be a water only grow
FFOF with 3 cups worm castings, 3.5 tbs mycorrizrae, 1.5 cups bat guano, 1.5 cups kelp meal, 2 cups tomato tone , 1.5 cups azomite , 1/2 cup green sand , 1.5 cups lime,


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## Tim Fox (Oct 1, 2021)

Time to pack the SIP, going with my grow box sip, I darn near fit the whole 1.5 cubic foot Into the SIP, pile it up way past the top and put on the plastic cover I would be top watering , keeps put all the bugs too


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## Tim Fox (Oct 1, 2021)

The clones are triple chocolate chip, and mint sherbert, got both from the state dispensary, it was 20 percent off today, so both for 46 dollars


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 1, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> The clones are triple chocolate chip, and mint sherbert, got both from the state dispensary, it was 20 percent off today, so both for 46 dollarsView attachment 5000163View attachment 5000164View attachment 5000165View attachment 5000166


Damn I wish I could just go grab a few clones and go straight into flower! Looking like a great start man! I'm sure you'll kill it as always!


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## Tim Fox (Oct 1, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Damn I wish I could just go grab a few clones and go straight into flower! Looking like a great start man! I'm sure you'll kill it as always!


They had a whole lot of teens there today 10 different strains


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 1, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> They had a whole lot of teens there today 10 different strains


Dang thats awesome! My ass out here living in this republican forever state... siiiiigh


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 1, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Dang thats awesome! My ass out here living in this republican forever state... siiiiigh


Don't worry man, your time will come!


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 1, 2021)

Day 48 flower.....






Buds are still getting a lil bigger. She's not a big or fast grower or a big yielder. What she's done in the earthbox though, has surprised me, but with as big as I like to grow them, I feel the earthbox just isn't big enough. I can't keep up with her. Lol


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## Shiggity (Oct 2, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 48 flower.....
> 
> View attachment 5000356
> View attachment 5000357
> ...


Looks great man. Nice thick chunky buds.


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## myke (Oct 2, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 48 flower.....
> 
> View attachment 5000356
> View attachment 5000357
> ...


Looks good! So hard to keep them fed when there that big ,youve done well to keep up.Any ideas for next round?


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 2, 2021)

myke said:


> Looks good! So hard to keep them fed when there that big ,youve done well to keep up.Any ideas for next round?


Thank you. It's been a lil difficult but I'm hoping to continue to do better. 
No, I've got a few different strains growing as moms that I'll pick one and take a few cuts off of it. I'm not sure which one yet though. I guess I better start getting them ready. Lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 2, 2021)

So what you cats think... can I take my sip soil re amend (just organics) and throw in some 6 week old plants in there? Should be fine yeah?


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 2, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> So what you cats think... can I take my sip soil re amend (just organics) and throw in some 6 week old plants in there? Should be fine yeah?


If it were me, I'd throw some cover crop in there also.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 2, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> If it were me, I'd throw some cover crop in there also.


I usually use a plastic cover or mulch. I have been thinking about cover cropping in between grows and then tilling it in.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 2, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> If it were me, I'd throw some cover crop in there also.


Maybe I'll try a few different things


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 2, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I usually use a plastic cover or mulch. I have been thinking about cover cropping in between grows and then tilling it in.


Cover crop with nitrogen fixers is what I would use.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 2, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I usually use a plastic cover or mulch. I have been thinking about cover cropping in between grows and then tilling it in.


What do you use for mulch?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 2, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> What do you use for mulch?


Either straw or bran. Or bokashi bran I make myself


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 2, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Cover crop with nitrogen fixers is what I would use.


That is a good idea


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 2, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> That is a good idea


Use some straw for mulch. It's good practice to mix brown and greens.


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## Shiggity (Oct 3, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Use some straw for mulch. It's good practice to mix brown and greens.


Be careful with too much straw as mulch. It can rob soil of nitrogen if you are not careful. This may be part of your issues with nitrogen.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 3, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> Be careful with too much straw as mulch. It can rob soil of nitrogen if you are not careful. This may be part of your issues with nitrogen.


The earthbox hasn't gotten too much straw. Just what was on top of the transplant. That is a good point though. I feel like something is taking N. Besides the plant.... lol


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## Shiggity (Oct 3, 2021)

In wet soils with little oxygen denitrifying bacteria process nitrogen and it is lost as a gas. That is why I added air channels in my 27 gal SIP this round. Last time I had trouble with loss of too much nitrogen so I wanted to avoid it.
https://vegcropshotline.org/article/nitrogen-loss-from-wet-soils/


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 3, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> In wet soils with little oxygen denitrifying bacteria process nitrogen and it is lost as a gas. That is why I added air channels in my 27 gal SIP this round. Last time I had trouble with loss of too much nitrogen so I wanted to avoid it.
> https://vegcropshotline.org/article/nitrogen-loss-from-wet-soils/


Never heard that before, but it makes sense. So the wet soils lose N by denitrifying and leaching, and mines almost always wet. So how do you add the air channels to your sip?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 3, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> Be careful with too much straw as mulch. It can rob soil of nitrogen if you are not careful. This may be part of your issues with nitrogen.


I believe there's a ratio of brown to green that I can't remember off the top of my head, but with the sips, yea maybe the browns aren't a good idea.


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## Shiggity (Oct 3, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Never heard that before, but it makes sense. So the wet soils lose N by denitrifying and leaching, and mines almost always wet. So how do you add the air channels to your sip?


So I wrapped some corrugated pipe with drain cloth after using scissors to cut more holes in the pipe. Then I put two of them vertical in my SIP. I figured the soil loss wouldn’t be bad because it’s a 27 gallon SIP. If I had a smaller SIP I would use a smaller diameter pipe. My SIP has a plastic cover so I’m not worried about any light getting down there.


here is my SIP in action this morning. I may add some far red to get her to stretch.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 3, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> So I wrapped some corrugated pipe with drain cloth after using scissors to cut more holes in the pipe. Then I put two of them vertical in my SIP. I figured the soil loss wouldn’t be bad because it’s a 27 gallon SIP. If I had a smaller SIP I would use a smaller diameter pipe. My SIP has a plastic cover so I’m not worried about any light getting down there.
> View attachment 5001349
> View attachment 5001350
> here is my SIP in action this morning. I may add some far red to get her to stretch.
> View attachment 5001356


Ok I see how that works. I'll try finding something similar only smaller. I don't like the idea of taking any more soil volume out of mine, but then again I don't believe I'm going to get it so big next time. When I make a bigger sip, ill grow them bigger. Lol

It would be nice to implement the sip res with a bed. Lol


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## weedstoner420 (Oct 4, 2021)

Getting my fall/winter grow ramped up, using recycled/amended soil in a pair of Growboxes. I decided to shake things up a bit, planted some wheatgrass and crimson clover a month or so before the clones go in:


And here's some peppers I grew in the growboxes over the summer. There's no AC in the basement so it gets too hot and humid to flower weed, but the peppers didn't seem to mind.


----------



## raggyb (Oct 4, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> So what you cats think... can I take my sip soil re amend (just organics) and throw in some 6 week old plants in there? Should be fine yeah?


Are you going to let the re-amends cook for 4-6 weeks before planting? I never compared but see that recommendation all the time. I guess it depends what you amend with.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 4, 2021)

weedstoner420 said:


> Getting my fall/winter grow ramped up, using recycled/amended soil in a pair of Growboxes. I decided to shake things up a bit, planted some wheatgrass and crimson clover a month or so before the clones go in:
> View attachment 5002242
> 
> And here's some peppers I grew in the growboxes over the summer. There's no AC in the basement so it gets too hot and humid to flower weed, but the peppers didn't seem to mind.
> View attachment 5002243


What did you re amend with.


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## weedstoner420 (Oct 4, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> What did you re amend with.


So between cycles (this is #4 for me) I've been dumping both growboxes into a big tote and adding:

- 4 cups KIS Organics nutrient pack (their all-in-one blend)
- 2 cups organic Tomato Tone (because the KIS seems kinda low in K and Ca)
- 1 gallon perlite
- 1 gallon compost and/or ewc

So each growbox gets roughly half of that, and there's a bit of soil left over. 

This time I also put the cut-down pepper plants in with it. It cooked for about 2 months and when I went to fill the boxes, the old plants were totally broken down except the stumps.


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## myke (Oct 4, 2021)

weedstoner420 said:


> So between cycles (this is #4 for me) I've been dumping both growboxes into a big tote and adding:
> 
> - 4 cups KIS Organics nutrient pack (their all-in-one blend)
> - 2 cups organic Tomato Tone (because the KIS seems kinda low in K and Ca)
> ...


Very similar to what I’ve done.when I planted my 2 gallon girls tips burned a little. Maybe a tad hot on N but they use it up so fast.


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## weedstoner420 (Oct 4, 2021)

myke said:


> Very similar to what I’ve done.when I planted my 2 gallon girls tips burned a little. Maybe a tad hot on N but they use it up so fast.


Good to know. I'll probably be going from little seed starter cells straight to the SIPs as soon as they root. Haven't had any issues doing that in the past, but also don't know if the mix has gotten hotter over time or not as I've re-amended it.


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## myke (Oct 4, 2021)

weedstoner420 said:


> Good to know. I'll probably be going from little seed starter cells straight to the SIPs as soon as they root. Haven't had any issues doing that in the past, but also don't know if the mix has gotten hotter over time or not as I've re-amended it.


Put some in a solo cup and drop a clone in. You’ll know right quick if it’s too hot lol.


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## weedstoner420 (Oct 4, 2021)

myke said:


> Put some in a solo cup and drop a clone in. You’ll know right quick if it’s too hot lol.


No can do this time, I'll just have to find out after they get transplanted. That's a good idea for next round though.


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## GrassBurner (Oct 4, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> So what you cats think... can I take my sip soil re amend (just organics) and throw in some 6 week old plants in there? Should be fine yeah?


That's what I've been doing. Gonna reammend a couple sips that have been sitting dormant for about a month, tonight. Got 2 seedlings that just broke soil last night/this morning. They're going straight into the sips. About 3 or 4 days and they will explode


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 4, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> That's what I've been doing. Gonna reammend a couple sips that have been sitting dormant for about a month, tonight. Got 2 seedlings that just broke soil last night/this morning. They're going straight into the sips. About 3 or 4 days and they will explode


I will be doing something very similar. I re amended one yesterday after run potting trimming and cloning some others. Hoping to get more done tonight but also trying to move shit around to get another 5x5 tent set up for moms and or clones... that will give me a 4 x 4 a 10 x 5 and a 5 x 5 space lolz ... my wife keeps saying yes so what can I do! Gotta love it


----------



## GrassBurner (Oct 4, 2021)

Sounds like a sweet setup!!


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 4, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Sounds like a sweet setup!!


It needs organization and a vision for my next run.. I'm getting there. Thanks though man!


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 5, 2021)

Day 52 flower......







I can see the buds have been swelling a bit. She's getting close!


----------



## GrassBurner (Oct 5, 2021)

Had 2 Dracarys seeds sprout early yesterday morning. 

Got then into their sips today. 
Sips have been sitting a month or so, popped the covers off and saw some nice worm activity


Decided to go full strength according to Dr Earth's recommendation on the Homegrown blend. 1/2 cup per 5 gallons, so 1.5 cups total. Had a few cups of ewc's left in my bag, tossed them in each sip as well. Dracarys seems to love the K in flower, so both sips got about a tbsp of Langbeinite. 


I found the perfect tool for turning soil, an old horseshoe  


Moistened the soil from the top, and went a little heavier in the corners where the soil wicks are.. Put the foil insulation cover on, then the world's cheapest fabric cover  Planted each seedling in their sip, and got them under the 288s @ 60'ish %. Hopefully see an explosion of growth within the next week.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 6, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 52 flower......
> 
> View attachment 5003439
> View attachment 5003445
> ...


Looking great man!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 6, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Had 2 Dracarys seeds sprout early yesterday morning.
> View attachment 5003480
> Got then into their sips today.
> Sips have been sitting a month or so, popped the covers off and saw some nice worm activity
> ...


Hey that old horseshoe should give you luck too!


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## JimmyJackCorn (Oct 8, 2021)

I love this thread and hate when it drops off the first page!

I haven't really posted here, but my setup might qualify. It's a hybrid of a wicking bed and a bottom-water. 

So there are four inches of river rock in the bottom of the 15G pot covered with weed mat, then the pot is filled with soil. The pot sits in an oversized tray which is four inches deep. So I dump about a gallon of tap water into the tray each morning.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 8, 2021)

JimmyJackCorn said:


> I love this thread and hate when it drops off the first page!
> 
> I haven't really posted here, but my setup might qualify. It's a hybrid of a wicking bed and a bottom-water.
> 
> So there are four inches of river rock in the bottom of the 15G pot covered with weed mat, then the pot is filled with soil. The pot sits in an oversized tray which is four inches deep. So I dump about a gallon of tap water into the tray each morning.


Yea, seems to be the same basic idea. Do you mulch or cover the top?


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 8, 2021)

So is it just me, or does it look like she's starting to foxtail?


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## Xsan (Oct 8, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Had 2 Dracarys seeds sprout early yesterday morning.
> View attachment 5003480
> Got then into their sips today.
> Sips have been sitting a month or so, popped the covers off and saw some nice worm activity
> ...




This makes me want to throw my little freshly sprouted seedling in my sip but honestly too scurred lol


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## GrassBurner (Oct 8, 2021)

Lol, they love it!! Few pages back I've got pictures of seedlings on their first day in the sip, and day 18. They're neck and neck with the dwc plant in the tent. I believe the Cantaloupe Haze were a little reluctant in the beginning, but they came on strong  
Do whatever your comfortable with, doesn't matter how you get there, just that you finish


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## Xsan (Oct 8, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Lol, they love it!! Few pages back I've got pictures of seedlings on their first day in the sip, and day 18. They're neck and neck with the dwc plant in the tent. I believe the Cantaloupe Haze were a little reluctant in the beginning, but they came on strong
> Do whatever your comfortable with, doesn't matter how you get there, just that you finish



this is a whole word of firsts for me on this round. first round this these genetics, first round ill be sipping, first round doing the probiotic dance, and first round with a real led light and not blurble lol. Im just hoping it works like i think it is going to. I started it in a .5 gallon with pumice on the bottom inch or so then put it on a planter tray so technically siping at this point. Once I am more confident this will work i will create a thread


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## JimmyJackCorn (Oct 9, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea, seems to be the same basic idea. Do you mulch or cover the top?


I've been mulching with trimmings and also with fresh alfalfa.

I vegged it outside over the summer, then repotted from 5G to 15G and brought it inside right as pistils started showing (Aug. 22). Rebalancing the bugs has been a challenge, but it's coasting now. Been top dressing with 4-4-4, compost tea, FPJ, and/or fresh alfalfa/trimmings every two weeks or less, and this nitrogen hog still fades.


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## JimmyJackCorn (Oct 9, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> So is it just me, or does it look like she's starting to foxtail?
> 
> View attachment 5005705
> View attachment 5005706
> View attachment 5005707


Kinda looks like it, yeah. Mine is doing the same thing! I'm not sure if that's bad or good, but I need a couple/three more weeks before it's ripe. Looks like you might be in a similar situation.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 9, 2021)

I had the same thing happen under this light with the last strain. I'm thinking I have the light a lil close. Sometimes it's genetic, but I'm not thinking so in my case. It's not good, but my last run was some really good smoke, and it had foxtails, so I don't think it affects potency. I think it's more about bag appeal.

Week 8 ends tomorrow, so I'm hoping she's done at the end of week 10.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 9, 2021)

JimmyJackCorn said:


> I've been mulching with trimmings and also with fresh alfalfa.
> 
> I vegged it outside over the summer, then repotted from 5G to 15G and brought it inside right as pistils started showing (Aug. 22). Rebalancing the bugs has been a challenge, but it's coasting now. Been top dressing with 4-4-4, compost tea, FPJ, and/or fresh alfalfa/trimmings every two weeks or less, and this nitrogen hog still fades.


Cover the top with a plastic bag, like a garbage bag. It'll help hold in more moisture. Kinda like this....


That's if you want to. It does help I believe though.


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## JimmyJackCorn (Oct 9, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Cover the top with a plastic bag, like a garbage bag. It'll help hold in more moisture. Kinda like this....
> 
> View attachment 5005915
> That's if you want to. It does help I believe though.


I almost covered it like that.

I am in a dryish climate, so I rely on the plant and soil to humidify my tent. It works fairly well, but this plant is really bushy and I started having some humidity problems. I put an extra fan and increased passive intake, which worked. If it didn't, my next step was covering the tray and/or soil. 

I'd like to do a big tote like I see around here, and I am enamored with the wicking beds (rather than the soil wicks). I'm not confident with my soil yet, though. My plan is to use the same 15G pot, no-till, for my next seedling. If that works well, my next step will be a big SIP (or two).


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## JimmyJackCorn (Oct 9, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I had the same thing happen under this light with the last strain. I'm thinking I have the light a lil close. Sometimes it's genetic, but I'm not thinking so in my case. It's not good, but my last run was some really good smoke, and it had foxtails, so I don't think it affects potency. I think it's more about bag appeal.
> 
> Week 8 ends tomorrow, so I'm hoping she's done at the end of week 10.


I got some leaf droop a week ago, which was about the time I dimmed the light last time I grew this strain. It perked back up after dimming to 75%, and after a few days it did some minor (so far) foxtailing. It didn't do that last time, but its living conditions are significantly different.

I guess I'm not too worried about the foxtailing itself, just that it can be a sign of stress.


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## GrassBurner (Oct 10, 2021)

Here is something simple and relatively cheap that could be repurposed as a sip without much work. Check this out, restaraunt food storage containers. 26"x18"x12" 
Strainer
Storage Container


Drain pan sits perfectly on top of the storage container. 

Can get a lid for the strainer. Would have to be painted or wrapped. $25 for the 26x18x12 bottom container, $15 for the strainer. Lid is probably $5. All of this is at Webstaraunt.com Heavy duty stuff, made for commercial kitchens, and food grade. 
I think I'm gonna make 4 sips using these 12 qt containers. $6.28 per container, would give you 3 gallons of soil, and around a gallon reservoir when stacked. Can fit 4 in a 2x2 footprint. Dimensions are 10.75" x 10.75" x 8". I'd say around 11"-12" tall when stacked. 


They stack like this


You could use a 12qt for soil, and stack it on an 18qt container, probably double the reservoir size, and put you around 15" tall. 18qt container is $8.88 I believe. 
Here is a link to the storage containers. 
Containers 

I'm sure you can find them on Amazon, or even at a local restaurant supply. With my limited space, smaller sips allow me to grow more variety, and would be a lot easier to move around. What do yall think?


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## raggyb (Oct 11, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Here is something simple and relatively cheap that could be repurposed as a sip without much work. Check this out, restaraunt food storage containers. 26"x18"x12"
> Strainer
> Storage Container
> View attachment 5007339
> ...


The measuring cup lines are a novelty and I like that it has handles.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 11, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Here is something simple and relatively cheap that could be repurposed as a sip without much work. Check this out, restaraunt food storage containers. 26"x18"x12"
> Strainer
> Storage Container
> View attachment 5007339
> ...


I like the idea. Just make sure you paint the whole thing. It looks kinda transparent.


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## GrassBurner (Oct 11, 2021)

Yeah they will definitely need paint. Might as well go green right?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 11, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Here is something simple and relatively cheap that could be repurposed as a sip without much work. Check this out, restaraunt food storage containers. 26"x18"x12"
> Strainer
> Storage Container
> View attachment 5007339
> ...


having built my own sips and bought earthboxes I think personally I would just spring for them. They are only like 33 bucks I think on build a soil and work great! This IS a cool idea though if you are intent on DIY!


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## GrassBurner (Oct 11, 2021)

Yeah I love my patio pickers  I'm looking for something a little easier to move around in my tight grow area. Also, my buddy just sent me a bunch of seeds he made, and they need homes


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## GreenBean 420 (Oct 12, 2021)

Can anyone help me with a quick question?

I’ve never grown out regular seeds before and I was hoping to use my new earthboxes for the first run. What is the best way to run regular seeds in SIPs without knowing the sex? Would I sex them before transplanting into the SIP? Or just transplant at the normal time and hope that A couple turn out female?

I was planning to run two plants in each earthbox… but that’s not concrete yet. Thanks everyone.


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## GrassBurner (Oct 12, 2021)

I like to transplant into the sip after I've sexed. I worry about dead roots in the reservoir from plants pulled out. I've done it before, but it makes me nervous.


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## Xsan (Oct 12, 2021)

GreenBean 420 said:


> Can anyone help me with a quick question?
> 
> I’ve never grown out regular seeds before and I was hoping to use my new earthboxes for the first run. What is the best way to run regular seeds in SIPs without knowing the sex? Would I sex them before transplanting into the SIP? Or just transplant at the normal time and hope that A couple turn out female?
> 
> I was planning to run two plants in each earthbox… but that’s not concrete yet. Thanks everyone.



I run fems but if/when I do switch to regs I would start in a small pot, until I can sex them, then throw them in the sip. That was how Jeremy at BAS did it in the 10x10 series. Also gives a chance to make sure you have a healthy seedling before potentially contaminated your sip soil.


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## Robar (Oct 13, 2021)

GreenBean 420 said:


> Can anyone help me with a quick question?
> 
> I’ve never grown out regular seeds before and I was hoping to use my new earthboxes for the first run. What is the best way to run regular seeds in SIPs without knowing the sex? Would I sex them before transplanting into the SIP? Or just transplant at the normal time and hope that A couple turn out female?
> 
> I was planning to run two plants in each earthbox… but that’s not concrete yet. Thanks everyone.


I always veg plants until they express sex then transplant females for flowering. In my situation I veg in 1 gal nursery pots then up-pot them to larger pots or in this case your sip planter. I find that with a feed or two towards the end one gallons work for this pretty well but you need to understand plant talk because hungry strains need help toward the end. The plus side besides being cheaper is this helps keep a horde of plants at a manageable size until you can decide who stays and who goes.

Basically don't waste sip space and large quantities of pricey soil on males unless you are like me and keep a couple around for making seed. Better to invest the time, money and space in your females and to do that you have to let them (or force them) to show their sex.


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## GreenBean 420 (Oct 13, 2021)

Robar said:


> I always veg plants until they express sex then transplant females for flowering. In my situation I veg in 1 gal nursery pots then up-pot them to larger pots or in this case your sip planter. I find that with a feed or two towards the end one gallons work for this pretty well but you need to understand plant talk because hungry strains need help toward the end. The plus side besides being cheaper is this helps keep a horde of plants at a manageable size until you can decide who stays and who goes.
> 
> Basically don't waste sip space and large quantities of pricey soil on males unless you are like me and keep a couple around for making seed. Better to invest the time, money and space in your females and to do that you have to let them (or force them) to show their sex.


so basically the easiest way (without flipping clones and all that to determine sex) is to just veg them all till pre-flower, then simply transplant to the SIP? So I’m looking at around 4-6 weeks of Veg in a smaller container until preflower? Seems the general timeframe the internet is giving me ha…


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## Robar (Oct 13, 2021)

GreenBean 420 said:


> so basically the easiest way (without flipping clones and all that to determine sex) is to just veg them all till pre-flower, then simply transplant to the SIP? So I’m looking at around 4-6 weeks of Veg in a smaller container until preflower? Seems the general timeframe the internet is giving me ha…


Depending on strain I generally go 50 - 60 days in veg. As an example if I can identify by day 40-45 I up-pot and give them 10-14 days to establish then flip. With that 10-14 days they get more time to mature sexually as they grow more root mass in their new space. I like to go the full 14 if I have the time as giving the roots time to spread and grow has been essential in my experience.

Edit* I should add for sake of clarity that I mainly grow sativa and sativa heavy crosses and they need more time. with indica types the time frame I outline is probably a little faster.


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## myke (Oct 13, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I had the same thing happen under this light with the last strain. I'm thinking I have the light a lil close. Sometimes it's genetic, but I'm not thinking so in my case. It's not good, but my last run was some really good smoke, and it had foxtails, so I don't think it affects potency. I think it's more about bag appeal.
> 
> Week 8 ends tomorrow, so I'm hoping she's done at the end of week 10.


Pretty common to back the light off week 8-10 as the plant slows down.They look awesome man.


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## myke (Oct 13, 2021)

GreenBean 420 said:


> Can anyone help me with a quick question?
> 
> I’ve never grown out regular seeds before and I was hoping to use my new earthboxes for the first run. What is the best way to run regular seeds in SIPs without knowing the sex? Would I sex them before transplanting into the SIP? Or just transplant at the normal time and hope that A couple turn out female?
> 
> I was planning to run two plants in each earthbox… but that’s not concrete yet. Thanks everyone.


Around here some will slowly back the hours of light off,reduces stretch.So day 1 drop 1.5 hrs' day7 1.5 hrs day 13 etc.... Wait till you have 5,6 nodes before you do it.Ive never tried but others have.Once sex is determined flip back to 18/6.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 13, 2021)

myke said:


> Pretty common to back the light off week 8-10 as the plant slows down.They look awesome man.


How much though? Do you go lower than halfway from full power?


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## myke (Oct 13, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> How much though? Do you go lower than halfway from full power?


Hmm,Im new also to led.I ran HPS before.I would back it off by 12" or more.
My thoughts are when dimming does the spectrum stay the same?Id just lift the light 8-12" ish and see how much leaf temp drops.If any.


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## myke (Oct 13, 2021)

Ive been using IR gun to check bud temps with my lights. Im still old school ha,will take a few runs to get it sorted.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 13, 2021)

myke said:


> Hmm,Im new also to led.I ran HPS before.I would back it off by 12" or more.
> My thoughts are when dimming does the spectrum stay the same?Id just lift the light 8-12" ish and see how much leaf temp drops.If any.


I don't believe the spectrum stays the same. When I turn my light down to 10% the light looks bluer.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 13, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I like to transplant into the sip after I've sexed. I worry about dead roots in the reservoir from plants pulled out. I've done it before, but it makes me nervous.


Yep I do the same, see plants in 1 to 3 gallon pots, take some clones as I can and then once they show I add them to the earthbox and flip to flower pretty much right away because they are going to explode in the earthbox


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## GreenBean 420 (Oct 13, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I don't believe the spectrum stays the same. When I turn my light down to 10% the light looks bluer.


I believe I read that most decent LEDs can hold the spectrum till about 30% or so. Then things get a bit squirrelly. Which is why a lot of them only dim to 30% I think. Def check online though shouldn’t be too hard to find


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 13, 2021)

GreenBean 420 said:


> I believe I read that most decent LEDs can hold the spectrum till about 30% or so. Then things get a bit squirrelly. Which is why a lot of them only dim to 30% I think. Def check online though shouldn’t be too hard to find


Good lookin out.


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## raggyb (Oct 13, 2021)

GreenBean 420 said:


> Can anyone help me with a quick question?
> 
> I’ve never grown out regular seeds before and I was hoping to use my new earthboxes for the first run. What is the best way to run regular seeds in SIPs without knowing the sex? Would I sex them before transplanting into the SIP? Or just transplant at the normal time and hope that A couple turn out female?
> 
> I was planning to run two plants in each earthbox… but that’s not concrete yet. Thanks everyone.


I sex separately too. I cant move my SIPs to rearrange relative to lights for fewer plants so I prefer all Sips occupied with females of the right size


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## GrassBurner (Oct 13, 2021)

@myke , got a guesstimate about what percentage off the cross section area of your sip, your wick is? I read 10% on an unrelated forum. My patio pickers seem to be in the 10% range. I'm gonna use stainless mesh to make a wick tube filled with straight peat. With these food storage containers, I need about 3.5" around. 
Was considering making the wick protrude 3" into to soil container, and to the bottom of the reservoir, anyone foresee disadvantages, as opposed to the plain peat coming just up to the bottom of the soil container?


----------



## myke (Oct 13, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> @myke , got a guesstimate about what percentage off the cross section area of your sip, your wick is? I read 10% on an unrelated forum. My patio pickers seem to be in the 10% range. I'm gonna use stainless mesh to make a wick tube filled with straight peat. With these food storage containers, I need about 3.5" around.
> Was considering making the wick protrude 3" into to soil container, and to the bottom of the reservoir, anyone foresee disadvantages, as opposed to the plain peat coming just up to the bottom of the soil container?


Just put out a blunt,I think your asking how much area my wick takes up?I could probably fit 7-8 of them in my water res area.I use a 5" hydro net pot its 4" tall.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 13, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> @myke , got a guesstimate about what percentage off the cross section area of your sip, your wick is? I read 10% on an unrelated forum. My patio pickers seem to be in the 10% range. I'm gonna use stainless mesh to make a wick tube filled with straight peat. With these food storage containers, I need about 3.5" around.
> Was considering making the wick protrude 3" into to soil container, and to the bottom of the reservoir, anyone foresee disadvantages, as opposed to the plain peat coming just up to the bottom of the soil container?


have you looked at the PDF for making sips in the very beginning ? it has a GREAT set up for making about 15 gallons of soil sips. I made some years ago and they still are going strong! also its a great place to understand the wick to soil ratio and go from there upscaling.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 13, 2021)

raggyb said:


> I sex separately too. I cant move my SIPs to rearrange relative to lights for fewer plants so I prefer all Sips occupied with females of the right size


just ordered up 6 sets of wheels for the earthboxes! They will make them easily movable.... it does suck that it cost me 100 bucks for 24 wheels.. but really even if I bought them at the hardware store and somehow figured out how to make them work, they would add up.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 13, 2021)

Day 59 flower.....







She's definitely foxtailing imo. Unfortunately I can't raise the light, so I dimmed it to 50%. I think the foxtailing is causing new pistils. Hopefully she doesn't take much longer cuz she's starting to smell really good.


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## myke (Oct 13, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 59 flower.....
> 
> View attachment 5009121
> View attachment 5009122
> ...


Cool,hows it compared to the other tent?


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 13, 2021)

myke said:


> Cool,hows it compared to the other tent?


 Um.... well....I started flowering that one much later, and I waited too long.....



The light doesn't go any higher. Stretch is mostly done though. Lol..... she's twice as big. 

I'm gone a lot for work, so I haven't had much time for it, and being in hydro she grew fast. This is the first in a 4x4 and I wanted to fill the scrog before flip. Next time I need to flip sooner.


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## myke (Oct 13, 2021)

Lol!! Been there. I didn’t know it would stretch that much!! Haha. Friggen hydro eh?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 13, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 59 flower.....
> 
> View attachment 5009121
> View attachment 5009122
> ...


STACKING!


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 13, 2021)

myke said:


> Lol!! Been there. I didn’t know it would stretch that much!! Haha. Friggen hydro eh?


I should've known but somehow I'm always surprised at just how fast it grows in hydro. And Lucas formula for the win again. It takes so much work out of it, and this plant is really happy and green.


----------



## Robar (Oct 13, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Um.... well....I started flowering that one much later, and I waited too long.....
> 
> View attachment 5009154
> 
> ...


I've watched an older video than this but Kyle teaches chiropractic treatment for cannabis the same in this newer one. I do this anytime I need to lower a branch(s) veg or flower. Kyle says its better to do it in veg but I've done it early flower when a stretchy plant out grows her vertical space. Honestly it's a weed and can take a lot of physical abuse before throwing in the towel.


----------



## raggyb (Oct 13, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> just ordered up 6 sets of wheels for the earthboxes! They will make them easily movable.... it does suck that it cost me 100 bucks for 24 wheels.. but really even if I bought them at the hardware store and somehow figured out how to make them work, they would add up.


gotcha. I guess your issues different from mine cause theyre heavy. My homemade sips are small, but connected by watering tubes that are cut to length and it would be super pita to move them around.


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## GrassBurner (Oct 13, 2021)

myke said:


> Just put out a blunt,I think your asking how much area my wick takes up?I could probably fit 7-8 of them in my water res area.I use a 5" hydro net pot its 4" tall.


Thanks for the info!


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## GrassBurner (Oct 13, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> have you looked at the PDF for making sips in the very beginning ? it has a GREAT set up for making about 15 gallons of soil sips. I made some years ago and they still are going strong! also its a great place to understand the wick to soil ratio and go from there upscaling.


I will definitely check that out, thanks for pointing me in the right direction


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## GreenBean 420 (Oct 14, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> just ordered up 6 sets of wheels for the earthboxes! They will make them easily movable.... it does suck that it cost me 100 bucks for 24 wheels.. but really even if I bought them at the hardware store and somehow figured out how to make them work, they would add up.


Wait what ha? The sets of wheels are 9.99 at BAS and might be cheaper at earthbox.com. How did you hit 100 dollars! Shipping?!


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 14, 2021)

GreenBean 420 said:


> Wait what ha? The sets of wheels are 9.99 at BAS and might be cheaper at earthbox.com. How did you hit 100 dollars! Shipping?!


Yeah I think I got some of that q powder too lol hard not to spend too much on their site!


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## GrassBurner (Oct 14, 2021)

Let's get this party started  


Picked up the materials I need to finish the sips. Going with (2) 2" pvc wicks per sip. Doing some reading last night, and it sounded like the farther the wick protruded into the soil, the higher level of saturated soil. I assume we want a gradient of soil moisture from wet to dry, so I'm only going to bring the wick an inch into the soil container. Found some 2" black plastic pipe to use for fill tubes. Need to drill all my holes then I can paint them. 
Lowes has their Vornado fans, and a few generic fans marked half off. Ive got a small Vornado tower fan, it's a quality product. Grabbed a round style that swivels up and down. If you need a fan, nows the time to buy


----------



## myke (Oct 14, 2021)

What most of us do is plant a 6-8 week old gal in wait a week or two and flip.Timing of roots hitting the res and stretch is when you get the hydro growth.My soil is wet top to bottom,keeps the top dressings moist.
I would put the small 12q on the bottom (res) big one 18q for soil.


----------



## myke (Oct 14, 2021)

I also cant see a difference if the wick tube extends into the soil.The whole bottom soil of the inntainer above the wick is I guess part of the wick. 
I had cut the roots off in first pic, but you can see how all the roots went to the wick.


----------



## GrassBurner (Oct 14, 2021)

Thanks for the info and advice @myke  I thought about putting the bigger container on top for soil, but those "shoulders" around the top 3 inches is where they stack onto each other. Can only stack same size, or smaller into bigger.
Could run 2 18 quarts together, would give you almost a gallon for the reservoir. Overall height would be the same as a 12 inside an 18 (15")
I'm hoping with the larger reservoir I can leave the plants for a longer period of time. Here's where I'm at right now. 

Picked up some Dr Earth liquid nutrients in a little pump bottle. I figure with only 3 gallons of soil, the plants will be hungry after the initial dry ammendments are consumed. Still planning to top dress when I flip to flower, hoping this will carry me through.


----------



## ilovereggae (Oct 14, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yeah I think I got some of that q powder too lol hard not to spend too much on their site!


I find myself looking for new stuff to buy when I only need a few items. I feel bad ordering only a few things lol.

Anyway here's an update you can all appreciate. Harvested my last plant from the 4x4 that had 6 earthbox Jr's. 

first plant I pulled was a White Runtz that yielded 64g of small dense buds.



next was 8 chile verde clones that yielded a total of 14oz inc popcorn. it's all for the head so didn't take time to seperate it all but am happy regardless.



just pulled the last one which is a seed junkies cross. plant was a fugly mutant but looks to be 2+ oz on it.

pretty happy with that results. minimal anything except water and defol. i did use buildabloom a few times thru flower.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 14, 2021)

ilovereggae said:


> I find myself looking for new stuff to buy when I only need a few items. I feel bad ordering only a few things lol.
> 
> Anyway here's an update you can all appreciate. Harvested my last plant from the 4x4 that had 6 earthbix Jr's.
> 
> ...


Beautiful man!


----------



## raggyb (Oct 14, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Thanks for the info and advice @myke  I thought about putting the bigger container on top for soil, but those "shoulders" around the top 3 inches is where they stack onto each other. Can only stack same size, or smaller into bigger.
> Could run 2 18 quarts together, would give you almost a gallon for the reservoir. Overall height would be the same as a 12 inside an 18 (15")
> I'm hoping with the larger reservoir I can leave the plants for a longer period of time. Here's where I'm at right now.
> View attachment 5009786
> ...


Just a guess but I think you could put more holes in the wicks.


----------



## Rocket Soul (Oct 15, 2021)

myke said:


> Hmm,Im new also to led.I ran HPS before.I would back it off by 12" or more.
> My thoughts are when dimming does the spectrum stay the same?Id just lift the light 8-12" ish and see how much leaf temp drops.If any.


The spectrum does infact change but it's an extremely small change. Looking at LED datasheets you'll usually see a chromacity vrs drive current graph. I was led to believe it's the other way though, more current more blue bleeding thru the phosphor. But it's so little that it doesn't matter one bit for our purpose.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 15, 2021)

Rocket Soul said:


> The spectrum does infact change but it's an extremely small change. Looking at LED datasheets you'll usually see a chromacity vrs drive current graph. I was led to believe it's the other way though, more current more blue bleeding thru the phosphor. But it's so little that it doesn't matter one bit for our purpose.


I believed the same. Blue light is higher energy light, so common sense would tell the more energy you give the light, the higher energy the light should be. Lol..... I'm such a dumbass.


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## Rocket Soul (Oct 15, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I believed the same. Blue light is higher energy light, so common sense would tell the more energy you give the light, the higher energy the light should be. Lol..... I'm such a dumbass.


The way it's supposed to work ( I gather... Still not completely sure) is that blue light pump excites the phosphor which give all the rest of the light of the spectrum and when you turn power up more of this blue light bleeds thru the phosphor. In any case it's so marginally that it doesn't matter. If it looks bluer on low should be a trick of the eye.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 15, 2021)

Rocket Soul said:


> The way it's supposed to work ( I gather... Still not completely sure) is that blue light pump excites the phosphor which give all the rest of the light of the spectrum and when you turn power up more of this blue light bleeds thru the phosphor. In any case it's so marginally that it doesn't matter. If it looks bluer on low should be a trick of the eye.


My timber setup makes the light look really orange/ yellow when turned up....



It's bluer when I turn it down....



But yea, it's kinda funny how that works. Lol


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 15, 2021)

At any rate....I had to turn mine down. I don't believe she's going to grow much anymore.


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## Robar (Oct 15, 2021)

Hey Myke just gotta say I dig the new MOPAR Plumb-Crazy badge you're sportin!
esit* spelling


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## Robar (Oct 15, 2021)

Robar said:


> Hey Myke just gotta say I dig the new MOPAR Plumb-Crazy badge you're sportin!
> esit* spelling


I must be higher than fuck! I did an edit on my last post for spelling then caught the S instead of the D when I spelled edit. LOL too damned funny!


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## myke (Oct 15, 2021)

Robar said:


> Hey Myke just gotta say I dig the new MOPAR Plumb-Crazy badge you're sportin!
> esit* spelling


Lol,yup, never owned one.Maybe one day.


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## GrassBurner (Oct 15, 2021)

I just wanna drive a Daytona Superbird....around Talladega for a few hours


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## Robar (Oct 15, 2021)

myke said:


> Lol,yup, never owned one.Maybe one day.


My first car was 1970 Dodge Super Bee with a punched out 383 with ram air system. I know right ! I turned 16 in 83 and my old man was a 32 year old gear head who of course was a mechanic by birth. This car was was nothing to look at but there wasn't much in my neck of the woods that could touch it!

My cousin who was also my best friend had a fast as hell 71 cuda with a 340. Well as kids with fast cars are want to do, we raced a LOT! It was fun, fun, fun, til daddy took the big block away...

One day the old man say, "We're putting a new motor in your car this weekend." I'm like fuckin shittin my pant pants! Every mopar guy's dream is to up-pot and go bigger! Now I've always been realistic about my place in the cosmos so I knew damned well the old man hadn't come up with a hemi, I mean come on lets be real. But I won't I lie I had visions of a big Holly double pumper on top of a 440 dancin in my head. and the old played the part perfect. He smiled, nodded is head and said "Yeah really" and kinda laughed along with me

So when the magical the weekend came of course the laughing was over. We put a 318 in my not so super bee. Dad explained that having seen first hand just how fast that car really was he knew it was a bad idea. He was at a stop sign out in the country when my cousin and I went flyin by side by side racing down the road. 

Oh well, I had fast mopar for the better part of the summer of 83. 

Memories...


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## Robar (Oct 15, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I just wanna drive a Daytona Superbird....around Talladega for a few hours


I think this guy had the same dream.


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## myke (Oct 15, 2021)

Robar said:


> My first car was 1970 Dodge Super Bee with a punched out 383 with ram air system. I know right ! I turned 16 in 83 and my old man was a 32 year old gear head who of course was a mechanic by birth. This car was was nothing to look at but there wasn't much in my neck of the woods that could touch it!
> 
> My cousin who was also my best friend had a fast as hell 71 cuda with a 340. Well as kids with fast cars are want to do, we raced a LOT! It was fun, fun, fun, til daddy took the big block away...
> 
> ...


Awesome ,I was 16 in 83 also.Took mechanics all through high school.Everyone was a gear head.Spent a lot of time at pic a part, local junk yard. Had a 72 Nova that had a few engine transplants,transmissions etc.Auto teacher would let us stay after school to wrench on our cars.I blew up a motor every year seemed like,was nothing to replace it.Wasnt till grade 12 that I finally got it running good.Got a 12 bolt with 4;10 gears that thing was quick off the lights.Ended up smashing it up in a winter storm.
Good times.


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## GrassBurner (Oct 15, 2021)

My first car was a Nova, just not a cool one  78 4 Door. Put a .040 over 350 in, with a .580 lift cam, set of fast burn heads, and a 3k stall. Was a blast to take down the strip


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## myke (Oct 15, 2021)

Was popular to put 350's in Chevrolet Vegas in those days.Our school would build them and raffle them off.All the auto students built them with donated parts.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 15, 2021)

Week 10 starts Sunday.....






Any opinions on how much longer?


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## Robar (Oct 15, 2021)

myke said:


> Was popular to put 350's in Chevrolet Vegas in those days.Our school would build them and raffle them off.All the auto students built them with donated parts.


The Chevy Nova was a very popular car back in those days. Seems like one out of every three gear heads were wrenchin on an old nova or chevelle back in early 80's

small cars with big motors? yep chevy vegas with 350's, and ford mavericks with 351's were a pretty popular go too. Had a buddy from high school who had a Maverick as a project but never got it finished. His dad got into building/racing late models at the local oval track and the maverick got sidelined into infinity. He went into the army right out of highschool and never came home after getting out. 

There was a pinto with a 302 running around for a while, but I only saw that car for one summer. 

Another cousin of mine built a 79 Datson 240z with a 429 out of an old 60's thunderbird but that was after we were out of school and he had more money. It also helped that he lived right next door to one of the many auto salvage yards in and around our town. (Read into that anyway you like!)

I look back on those days and wonder how I ever got so old. GOOD TIMES!


----------



## GrassBurner (Oct 16, 2021)




----------



## Robar (Oct 16, 2021)

On a different topic than old cars and a bit closer to being on topic for this thread. I have 5 of those sips I built in a 4x4 tent with an 600w HPS. I've been looking into led's and still suffer a bit of sticker shock at the higher end stuff. I have also been looking at the option of building my own but having to source and purchase all materials, then build the lights has very little appeal at the moment. 

A younger friend of mine runs a spider farmer sf-4000 and said it does a great job and produces rock hard buds. The sf-4000 is 529.00 on amazon with a 50.00 coupon so 479.00 with free shipping. I have 5 - 600w HPS and would like to convert over to LED. I can't do it all in one shot but I have about 1200 I can play with right now. 

What do you guys that run LEDs have? And what's your experience with them? what's good about them, what's bad? What to stay away from? I love my HPS's but I get a frown from my wife every time the electric bill shows up. I'm trying to find a proper replacement for my HPS's that don't break the bank. Weed is purely a hobby for me. I don't sell any of it so every dollar I spend, is out of my pocket and not generated by my hobby. 500 dollar lights put me off but the 500 dollar electric bills are becoming an issue.


----------



## Robar (Oct 16, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Week 10 starts Sunday.....
> 
> View attachment 5010541
> View attachment 5010542
> ...


Do you have a jewlers loop or the like to look close at the trikes? Most will tell you when the majority of the trikes are cloudy with few clear left and a few amber starting to show up is about right. kinda like a 10% 80% 10% sorta thing.


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## GrassBurner (Oct 16, 2021)

I run qb120's, 288's, and a strip light with 10 Samsung Influx strips. All of them diy. Unfortunately HLG is out of stock of the qb120s. But they do have qb288s in stock. You could get 4 qb288s with heatsinks for $338 with the riu10 discount. Their info sheet recommends a Meanwell HLG-600-54A driver for 4 boards. Driver is $186 from TRC. That puts you at $525, for 600 watts of top quality light. HLG has great customer service, and fast shipping.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 16, 2021)

Robar said:


> Do you have a jewlers loop or the like to look close at the trikes? Most will tell you when the majority of the trikes are cloudy with few clear left and a few amber starting to show up is about right. kinda like a 10% 80% 10% sorta thing.


Thanks! Yea, I have a USB scope. I know when they're coming down. I was just looking for other opinions and perspectives.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 16, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Thanks! Yea, I have a USB scope. I know when they're coming down. I was just looking for other opinions and perspectives.


What USB scope do you use? I have a hell of a time focusing with the one I have lol


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 16, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> What USB scope do you use? I have a hell of a time focusing with the one I have lol


Just a cheap Amazon one. The magnification is great, but yea it's a PITA to get focus and to get it lined up right. Lol.... For the price, it's worth the extra time and aggravation getting it right imo.


----------



## myke (Oct 16, 2021)

Robar said:


> On a different topic than old cars and a bit closer to being on topic for this thread. I have 5 of those sips I built in a 4x4 tent with an 600w HPS. I've been looking into led's and still suffer a bit of sticker shock at the higher end stuff. I have also been looking at the option of building my own but having to source and purchase all materials, then build the lights has very little appeal at the moment.
> 
> A younger friend of mine runs a spider farmer sf-4000 and said it does a great job and produces rock hard buds. The sf-4000 is 529.00 on amazon with a 50.00 coupon so 479.00 with free shipping. I have 5 - 600w HPS and would like to convert over to LED. I can't do it all in one shot but I have about 1200 I can play with right now.
> 
> What do you guys that run LEDs have? And what's your experience with them? what's good about them, what's bad? What to stay away from? I love my HPS's but I get a frown from my wife every time the electric bill shows up. I'm trying to find a proper replacement for my HPS's that don't break the bank. Weed is purely a hobby for me. I don't sell any of it so every dollar I spend, is out of my pocket and not generated by my hobby. 500 dollar lights put me off but the 500 dollar electric bills are becoming an issue.


The strip leds seem to work well,even light.No heat though.Last winter I ran them with an hps above so lots of light and heat.
All mine are used,kept searching my local buy and sell. Theres always somebody who buys new and decides growing isnt for them.
One thing about strips is you can put them close but to work on plants you have to raise and lower them ea time.
Ill be using both again this winter.


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## Robar (Oct 16, 2021)

myke said:


> The strip leds seem to work well,even light.No heat though.Last winter I ran them with an hps above so lots of light and heat.
> All mine are used,kept searching my local buy and sell. Theres always somebody who buys new and decides growing isnt for them.
> One thing about strips is you can put them close but to work on plants you have to raise and lower them ea time.
> Ill be using both again this winter.


The winter cold has been on my mind as well. I told the wife energy savings in the winter would be a wash with LED's because heat from my lights saved us about 100 a month on the gas bill in the winter and with LEDs I'd need to heat my grow spaces. Thanks for reminding me to check places like Craigs list etc. It totally slipped my mind.


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## myke (Oct 16, 2021)

Robar said:


> The winter cold has been on my mind as well. I told the wife energy savings in the winter would be a wash with LED's because heat from my lights saved us about 100 a month on the gas bill in the winter and with LEDs I'd need to heat my grow spaces. Thanks for reminding me to check places like Craigs list etc. It totally slipped my mind.


You run 5 600w hps? All different tents?


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## Shiggity (Oct 16, 2021)

I run kingbrite 240 watt quantum’s. 120 watts per board. Two 240W lights per 4x4. They were about 200 shipped from China.
Kingbrite light link

In other news it was day zero of flower today. Had an extreme amount of growth after 13 hours light/11 hours dark with 15 minutes of far red in the first part of flower. The huckleberry diesel was super praying!


she grew so much I was able to move her to the next set of squares. I thought it would take a few days.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 16, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> I run kingbrite 240 watt quantum’s. 120 watts per board. Two 240W lights per 4x4. They were about 200 shipped from China.
> Kingbrite light link
> 
> In other news it was day zero of flower today. Had an extreme amount of growth after 13 hours light/11 hours dark with 15 minutes of far red in the first part of flower. Thehuckleberry diesel was super praying!
> ...


I gotta learn to train them like that. Looks great man!


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## hot_box_enthusiast (Oct 17, 2021)

SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)


What are you guys using for your rez water(tap,RO) and what if anything are you adding to it(epsom, Calmag)? And are you PH'ing it at all? I believe just filtered water would be best.



www.rollitup.org





My initial mix is detailed in the post linked above. Right now I have my first 3 earthboxes going, at 3 weeks each. 
Moonshine Haze (Rare Dankness) - this is my keeper cut that I've run in Pro Mix with bottled nutes multiple times. Really excited to compare to the organic soil. So far the earthboxes seem to be growing just as fast as bottle nutes in a 5 gallon. Right now they are taking 10L every two days. 



I have a number of questions now that I am a few weeks into things; 


A couple things related to top dressing. Here is what I did. I did a top dress at start of week 2 and start of week 4. I gave each box 0.5 Cup of Gaia Green Power Bloom, 0.5 cup of EWC and 0.5cup compost. This was mixed and lightly tilled into the top layer of soil (where I observed feeder roots coming to surface). I then TOP WATERED
The top water was 1.5L per box which had Aloe and Yucca mixed in. 
When I see Jeremy on Build a Soil mix his water with aloe and yucca I don't see him PH the water, but I noted it drops mine. My water is 7.1 from the tap and drops to 5.9 once the yucca and aloe are added. *Should i PH that back up to 7?*
*Is this method of adding top dress sensible? For an 11 week flowering strain when should last top dress be? *

*Should I have bokashi or anything else on the top layer? *Jeremy at Build a Soil puts bokashi on, and gets this great mycelium layer. Is it needed? I was trying to avoid compost teas, and other extras and keep it simple. 
I have some products that I bought because I was trying to roughly follow build a soil, but I am not sure if/how I should use them. For example I have Activated EM . Build A Soil says with organic soil in an earthbox to let the box dry between watering (which I do) instead of keeping the rez topped up. But i Have heard other folks use EM1 in the rez with an air bubbler. Anyways, this product seems to have beneficials, so I am wondering the best way to incorporate into what I have set up, or to just ignore it?

basically, I am a bit of a mess, having decent success so far, looking for advice to avoid mistakes and achieve improved results


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 17, 2021)

hot_box_enthusiast said:


> SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)
> 
> 
> What are you guys using for your rez water(tap,RO) and what if anything are you adding to it(epsom, Calmag)? And are you PH'ing it at all? I believe just filtered water would be best.
> ...


Looking good. I'm kind of where you are at. Taking it one step at a time and trying to learn as much as possible. The great thing about l.o.s. imo, is if you keep it alive and fed, with the right inputs at the right time, it'll grow the plant for you.

If it were me though, depending on how big you grow them, I'd use something higher in N until after the stretch. I use build a bloom and I got fade when I thought I could just use it without the craft blend early on in flower. Keep your N up until mid/late flower. 

I never ph my water and I don't seem to have a problem but that's my experience. I use ro water so it's pretty close to neutral. I usually don't add yucca to the water I add to the res. I've started adding build a bloom to the res and when I do, I add yucca to it then but that's the only time. Otherwise it's just plain water in the res. I do add yucca to my top waterings though. 

Cannabis prefers fungally dominant soil. Mycelium is important in living soil. It'll help break down organic material faster. Kashi helps grow mycelium faster. Kashi blend is really good. So is grokashi.

This is what I've learned so far with my grow. Don't mind my shitty grammar. I'm pretty high right now. Lol


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 17, 2021)

Day 64 flower......





So I'm thinking of chopping next Saturday. Is my thinking wrong? Lol


----------



## Robar (Oct 17, 2021)

myke said:


> You run 5 600w hps? All different tents?


Yes sorta. I have 1 in a 4x4, 3 in a 4x8 and 1 in a little room I built in the basement during prohibition that measures 5 x 6 inside. The room used to have a 1000w HPS/MH but my magnetic ballast finally gave up the ghost and been running the room with the 600 every since spring. 

Currently I only have 1 light on in the 4x8 flowering a couple of AKBB's NL5 x NL1 x NL1 down at one end. The 4x4 is in veg with some Blue Orca Haze in my sips planters and the room has a blue orca haze sativa stretch pheno, a chocolate thai, a C99 pineapple funk pheno, and my much loved Black Poison Skunk cut in flower.

I'm leaning hard on putting 2 of these in the 4x8 which has 4- 50 gal no till beds in it that act just like a sips in so many ways. https://sonofarm.com/product/sonofarm-spider-farmer-sf4000-led-grow-light-full-spectrum-samsung-lm301b-diodes-meanwell-driver/

for the room I think I've decided to do something more Macgyver in style for now. I have an old single socket Raptor xxl air cooled hood that I've cobbled a second socket into and am going to try a 400w hps and a 315w CMH and see what results I can get from 700w of mix spectrum with 2 points of origin.

Not sure on 4x4 yet. I really only use it for last stage veg and breeding, but on occasion like now, those blue Orca Haze in the sips are staying in there for the duration so I need something capable of pulling off a decent flower run when pressed into service that way. I'll leave the 600 in there for this winter as it'll need the heat, but down the road I'd like to get something more efficient electricity wise. In the end that's what this is all about. I've always been extremely happy with my results from my HPS lights but the cost to run them is just to much anymore. I'm trying to save juice without sacrificing quality.


----------



## Xsan (Oct 17, 2021)

Robar said:


> Yes sorta. I have 1 in a 4x4, 3 in a 4x8 and 1 in a little room I built in the basement during prohibition that measures 5 x 6 inside. The room used to have a 1000w HPS/MH but my magnetic ballast finally gave up the ghost and been running the room with the 600 every since spring.
> 
> Currently I only have 1 light on in the 4x8 flowering a couple of AKBB's NL5 x NL1 x NL1 down at one end. The 4x4 is in veg with some Blue Orca Haze in my sips planters and the room has a blue orca haze sativa stretch pheno, a chocolate thai, a C99 pineapple funk pheno, and my much loved Black Poison Skunk cut in flower.
> 
> ...


how are you managing the environment for each? keep basement in general vicinity and small units to dial each tent/room in?


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## Robar (Oct 17, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Day 64 flower......
> 
> View attachment 5011787
> View attachment 5011788
> ...


Kinda hard to tell by pics but they look darned close if not ready, already. I'm the type that would rather take em a bit early than late. Racy verses welded to the furniture is how I roll, though I prefer the ever elusive happy medium. Mostly my loop just sits in the top of my tool box. I judge them the way I have for almost 40 years just spend time with them every day and then one day they just kinda scream pull me! So I do, simple as that. lol

I


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## Robar (Oct 17, 2021)

Xsan said:


> how are you managing the environment for each? keep basement in general vicinity and small units to dial each tent/room in?


Nothing that complicated I have air cooled hoods and can usually keep the tents around 81-82 through the summer except when the heat spikes bad then I've seen them as high as 88 or 90 a couple times but with ventilation and lots of air movement I survive it. I also try not to do any late flowering in august and never in the 4x8 with all 1800w running in it. I'm not high tech at all I'm very old school and low tech. I have a dehumidifier to keep basement humidity at 60 percent in summer. In winter if I'm running full with all 3 spaces there is enough water evaporating from all the plants to keep it around 50% humidity. I don't supplement ac in summer though when it's real hot I put a small blower blowing air out a window drawing cool ac air from upstairs. It helps a little but nothing earth shaking. Like I said very low tech


----------



## Xsan (Oct 17, 2021)

Robar said:


> Nothing that complicated I have air cooled hoods and can usually keep the tents around 81-82 through the summer except when the heat spikes bad then I've seen them as high as 88 or 90 a couple times but with ventilation and lots of air movement I survive it. I also try not to do any late flowering in august and never in the 4x8 with all 1800w running in it. I'm not high tech at all I'm very old school and low tech. I have a dehumidifier to keep basement humidity at 60 percent in summer. In winter if I'm running full with all 3 spaces there is enough water evaporating from all the plants to keep it around 50% humidity. I don't supplement ac in summer though when it's real hot I put a small blower blowing air out a window drawing cool ac air from upstairs. It helps a little but nothing earth shaking. Like I said very low tech



Thank you, hopefully within the next year I will have a few more tents and have been trying to figure out how I am going to manage the environmental side of it


----------



## Robar (Oct 17, 2021)

Xsan said:


> Thank you, hopefully within the next year I will have a few more tents and have been trying to figure out how I am going to manage the environmental side of it


originally I was going to set it up so I could pipe air from outside through all my hoods then back out for the warm season. the 4 x 8 tent and the 5 x 6 room's hoods are connected with ducting and run off the same blower but the 4 x 4 where I sometimes do the nasty is at the other end of the basement. Having it's own little system going down on the other end keeps pollen contamination in my main flower areas to a very low and doable level.


----------



## Robar (Oct 18, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> I run kingbrite 240 watt quantum’s. 120 watts per board. Two 240W lights per 4x4. They were about 200 shipped from China.
> Kingbrite light link
> 
> In other news it was day zero of flower today. Had an extreme amount of growth after 13 hours light/11 hours dark with 15 minutes of far red in the first part of flower. The huckleberry diesel was super praying!
> ...


Props Shiggity, that is a very pretty girl! love the 2nd shot with the hands praying!


----------



## Xsan (Oct 18, 2021)

I am going to ask this one here and see what everyone thinks. I am doing a new grow with a new light and let my seedling get a little too tall(was afraid of having the new light too close) well it toppled on me today so I quickly threw the straw around the base to stand her up but my question is this. Can i burry it down a bit with a combo of bus and ewc without doing damage? I have those bags open but dont want to open a new bag of soil just to burry the stem a bit


----------



## weedstoner420 (Oct 18, 2021)

Xsan said:


> I am going to ask this one here and see what everyone thinks. I am doing a new grow with a new light and let my seedling get a little too tall(was afraid of having the new light too close) well it toppled on me today so I quickly threw the straw around the base to stand her up but my question is this. Can i burry it down a bit with a combo of bus and ewc without doing damage? I have those bags open but dont want to open a new bag of soil just to burry the stem a bit


Dunno about burying it with straight compost/ewc...it probably wouldn't hurt, but if it were me I'd dig up some dirt from elsewhere in the planter and use that, then replace what you dug out with the compost/ewc


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## Xsan (Oct 18, 2021)

weedstoner420 said:


> Dunno about burying it with straight compost/ewc...it probably wouldn't hurt, but if it were me I'd dig up some dirt from elsewhere in the planter and use that, then replace what you dug out with the compost/ewc



Not a bad thought, trying to avoid disturbing the mycellium i have going on in the bin


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## Shiggity (Oct 18, 2021)

Robar said:


> Props Shiggity, that is a very pretty girl! love the 2nd shot with the hands praying!


Thanks man she is performing so well!


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## Xsan (Oct 18, 2021)

removed the bag covering the soil, drained the water in the tray, and tried scraping some soil from the edges. I am not sure she will make it through the night. This was a test for me so I am not entirely surprised. I will do the next seedling with normal top watering until she is stable enough to go into the sip


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## GrassBurner (Oct 19, 2021)

She should be fine


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## GrassBurner (Oct 19, 2021)

Here's the first seedling I put into the sip 14 days ago. Took a little longer than I was expecting, but it seems she is off to the races. 


Trifol seedling didn't make it. Have had a replacement in that planter for a couple days. Seems to be acclimating quickly. 
Food container sips are almost finished, just need to paint them. Got a 288 on the way to light the 2x2 area for them, and a fresh batch of soil mixed up. Almost time to party


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## Xsan (Oct 19, 2021)

She is still standing this morning


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## Slim Piggens (Oct 20, 2021)

Robar said:


> On a different topic than old cars and a bit closer to being on topic for this thread. I have 5 of those sips I built in a 4x4 tent with an 600w HPS. I've been looking into led's and still suffer a bit of sticker shock at the higher end stuff. I have also been looking at the option of building my own but having to source and purchase all materials, then build the lights has very little appeal at the moment.
> 
> A younger friend of mine runs a spider farmer sf-4000 and said it does a great job and produces rock hard buds. The sf-4000 is 529.00 on amazon with a 50.00 coupon so 479.00 with free shipping. I have 5 - 600w HPS and would like to convert over to LED. I can't do it all in one shot but I have about 1200 I can play with right now.
> 
> What do you guys that run LEDs have? And what's your experience with them? what's good about them, what's bad? What to stay away from? I love my HPS's but I get a frown from my wife every time the electric bill shows up. I'm trying to find a proper replacement for my HPS's that don't break the bank. Weed is purely a hobby for me. I don't sell any of it so every dollar I spend, is out of my pocket and not generated by my hobby. 500 dollar lights put me off but the 500 dollar electric bills are becoming an issue.


HLG is running a great sale right now, 15% off selected lights and they have a lot of refurbished units for sale as well. I picked up a 350R for the 3x3 and a 600Rspec for the 4x4 and couldn’t be happier. I’m running 4 Roc Bud Purple Dodgers in 4 earthbox juniors and they are loving it. Good luck, lots of great lights out there no matter who you go with but the customer service at HLG has been excellent so far.


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## JimmyJackCorn (Oct 21, 2021)

As awesome as SIPs are, they won't solve my fertilizer problem! Ha!

This plant is the biggest hog ever! I grew its mother, so I know it wants lots of N.

I uppotted from 5g to 15g at first sign of flowering. Soil was hot, so I didn't fertilize for a couple weeks (it went from regular plant green to deep, dark green in a few days).

Then I started to load it up on top. First week of feeding, 1/4 cup 4-4-4. Next week, fresh alfalfa top-dress. Next week, 1/4 cup 4-4-4. Then 8 oz. FPJ (made from mother trimmings). Then 1/4 cup 4-4-4. Then 8 oz. compost tea. I followed this "pattern," feeding about every week--until week eight when the fade started. It wasn't bad at first, so I let it go. Week nine brought a faster fade, so I gave it some compost tea in stronger concentration. No noticable difference!

This is week ten. Four days ago, in mild annoyance, I pulled out all the stops and dropped one full cup of 4-4-4. I also began giving it 16oz. of even stronger compost tea. I have been giving it this compost tea every day for four days.

Today the leaves have perked up a bit. The fade seems slowed, but I'll need a couple days to monitor and be sure.

This plant need ten times the fertilizer I have given any plant ever!


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## Robar (Oct 21, 2021)

Slim Piggens said:


> HLG is running a great sale right now, 15% off selected lights and they have a lot of refurbished units for sale as well. I picked up a 350R for the 3x3 and a 600Rspec for the 4x4 and couldn’t be happier. I’m running 4 Roc Bud Purple Dodgers in 4 earthbox juniors and they are loving it. Good luck, lots of great lights out there no matter who you go with but the customer service at HLG has been excellent so far.


Thanks for the heads up! Was going to get 3 of the sonofarm sf4000's however the 3 days between me asking my wife to order them through her prime account and her actually getting her ass around to it the price went up nearly a hundred bucks each. So I'm back to square one. The new price is probably fair but thats not the way I do business. Probably going back to thinking seriously about 315 cmh again. Even that will wait till spring I'll just run my HPS through the winter. light shopping has been frustrating and to finally settle on what I felt was best for my budget and needs and then have the rug pulled out from under me was pretty disheartening. I have spent hours, days, and weeks for over a year trying to find more economical lights in MY budget to appease SHE who can't get off her ass to order them. I'm over it! Love my HPS and always have they are just expensive to run and maintain.


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## Shiggity (Oct 21, 2021)

Robar said:


> Thanks for the heads up! Was going to get 3 of the sonofarm sf4000's however the 3 days between me asking my wife to order them through her prime account and her actually getting her ass around to it the price went up nearly a hundred bucks each. So I'm back to square one. The new price is probably fair but thats not the way I do business. Probably going back to thinking seriously about 315 cmh again. Even that will wait till spring I'll just run my HPS through the winter. light shopping has been frustrating and to finally settle on what I felt was best for my budget and needs and then have the rug pulled out from under me was pretty disheartening. I have spent hours, days, and weeks for over a year trying to find more economical lights in MY budget to appease SHE who can't get off her ass to order them. I'm over it! Love my HPS and always have they are just expensive to run and maintain.


Kingbrite on alibaba gives you a very good light for the money. I am a fan of their 240 watt quantumish board lights on separate heatsinks. One will do a 2x4 for about 200 shipped. I got the waterproof covers so my foliar feeding isn’t an issue.
They have lm301h as well. Very satisfied with the connectors and hardware. Quality light.
Kingbrite link


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## Slim Piggens (Oct 21, 2021)

Robar said:


> Thanks for the heads up! Was going to get 3 of the sonofarm sf4000's however the 3 days between me asking my wife to order them through her prime account and her actually getting her ass around to it the price went up nearly a hundred bucks each. So I'm back to square one. The new price is probably fair but thats not the way I do business. Probably going back to thinking seriously about 315 cmh again. Even that will wait till spring I'll just run my HPS through the winter. light shopping has been frustrating and to finally settle on what I felt was best for my budget and needs and then have the rug pulled out from under me was pretty disheartening. I have spent hours, days, and weeks for over a year trying to find more economical lights in MY budget to appease SHE who can't get off her ass to order them. I'm over it! Love my HPS and always have they are just expensive to run and maintain.


If you wanted the SF-4000, a refurbished HLG 600 Rspec with an additional 10% off is extremely hard to beat at $539.10. Discount code Dude. Rollitup has a code too, I just don’t remember it. My plants look GREAT under the 350R for early veg but they are quickly growing too big for the 3x3 space, so I will transfer them to the 4x4 this week under the Rspec.

Good luck. I understand the frustration but I am thrilled with these UL Listed, built like a tank lights.


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## weedstoner420 (Oct 22, 2021)

Popped some clones in the other day, with a bit of great white in the holes for good measure



The clover did not make it unfortunately...


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 22, 2021)

weedstoner420 said:


> Popped some clones in the other day, with a bit of great white in the holes for good measure
> 
> View attachment 5014574
> 
> The clover did not make it unfortunately...


How long do you let the cover crop grow before transplant?


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## weedstoner420 (Oct 22, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> How long do you let the cover crop grow before transplant?


I wanna say about a month. I grow the wheatgrass for my cat so I know it can fill a small pot with roots in about 2 weeks. I mostly planted it to improve soil structure and water retention.

I planted the grass seeds about 1/2" deep and then sprinkled the clover seed on top. When the grass sprouted up it literally pushed the baby clover out of its way, so the clover never really got to establish its own roots. Oh well.


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## Shiggity (Oct 24, 2021)

Flip+7 shows about to start. Huckleberry diesel v2 in 27 gallon sip.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 25, 2021)

does anyone know off hand what size the casters are for the wheels on the earthbox? I ordered a bunch from build a soil when they were in stock (I made sure of this and have been watching for them to be in stock for a while) and now since I have paid for them they are now back ordered again. (so much for build a soils new inventory system.... but I digress) Im just going to go buy my own I guess at this point instead of waiting like another month


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 25, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> does anyone know off hand what size the casters are for the wheels on the earthbox? I ordered a bunch from build a soil when they were in stock (I made sure of this and have been watching for them to be in stock for a while) and now since I have paid for them they are now back ordered again. (so much for build a soils new inventory system.... but I digress) Im just going to go buy my own I guess at this point instead of waiting like another month


I don't know the size, but I've thought about doing that myself. I got multiple casters laying around somewhere.


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## budsattva (Oct 25, 2021)

ive got six ladies in octopots now. added a couple pics. i have buildasoil living organic in the octos and the ladies are oh so happy. taking some new pics when the lights shut off. been distilled water only in the octo res from day one.


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## GrassBurner (Oct 27, 2021)

Day 22 and now we're cooking with grease! Plant in the back is 12 days old.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 27, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Day 22 and now we're cooking with grease! Plant in the back is 12 days old.
> View attachment 5017955


Looking good man!


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## GrassBurner (Oct 27, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Looking good man!


Thanks!! These sips do all the heavy lifting  Looks like they spend the first couple weeks throwing roots out, then they're ready to fire up the thrusters and start putting on mass. It's fascinating what comes of a seed.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 27, 2021)

My cover crop has sprouted....





The stalk is still really wet. I feel like there's still roots sucking water. It's crazy. 

What's the average time for letting cover crop grow before chop? Anybody know?


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 27, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Thanks!! These sips do all the heavy lifting  Looks like they spend the first couple weeks throwing roots out, then they're ready to fire up the thrusters and start putting on mass. It's fascinating what comes of a seed.


Yea pretty much. They establish roots fast too. Once they hit the res they blow up!


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## GrassBurner (Oct 27, 2021)

I'm just about ready to test the small sips. Sips are finished and painted, soil is mixed, qb288 is ready to roll, and I've got a 32"x32" tent coming in the next couple days. It's almost time to party   I'm gonna have to move into a tent and let the plants have the cabin


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 27, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I'm just about ready to test the small sips. Sips are finished and painted, soil is mixed, qb288 is ready to roll, and I've got a 32"x32" tent coming in the next couple days. It's almost time to party   I'm gonna have to move into a tent and let the plants have the cabin
> View attachment 5017966


Cool man! I'll be following.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 28, 2021)

6 re amended and ready to have ladies added tomorrow. owe my back lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 28, 2021)

Maybe I should finally replace that shitty wall there like I have been meaning to for a year lol


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 28, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> 6 re amended and ready to have ladies added tomorrow. owe my back lol


You ever tried no till in the eb?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 28, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> You ever tried no till in the eb?


not yet no, I have thought about it, but if I was going to go that route I think I would get a large soil bed.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 28, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> not yet no, I have thought about it, but if I was going to go that route I think I would get a large soil bed.


Yea that's idea of course. Id like a bed but my growroom floor can't handle that weight.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 28, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea that's idea of course. Id like a bed but my growroom floor can't handle that weight.


im in a concrete basement so I could run one, just have not moved to that yet.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 28, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea that's idea of course. Id like a bed but my growroom floor can't handle that weight.


I like to be able to move things around if needed also and have multiple rooms and a tent.. and might get another lol (how many things will my wife let me cram in my basement???)


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 28, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> im in a concrete basement so I could run one, just have not moved to that yet.


Well, I envy you sir. I could really make use of a basement.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 28, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I like to be able to move things around if needed also and have multiple rooms and a tent.. and might get another lol (how many things will my wife let me cram in my basement???)


Fortunately, I don't have one of those either. Lol


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## Shiggity (Oct 31, 2021)

Booty so thick oh lawd…have mercy! 14 days post flip for my huckleberry dieselV2 in 20 gallons soil in a 27 gallon SIP


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## GrassBurner (Oct 31, 2021)

Gonna try to harness a little Turtle Power for this grow  Got the tent setup, catch tray in, and the sips in their new home. For the test run, I'm running 4 Original Glue Fems from GG Genetics.


Tent is 30" x 30" x 63". Got a single qb288 on a 135 watt driver for veg. During flower I'll add a couple Samsung F Strips @50 watts each. 
Wrapped the wicks in a layer of landscaping fabric to keep the peat in. 


Attached the wicks to the soil container. 


I was worried about proper air exchange with the single drain hole, so I plumbed an air stone into each container. Also figured since I have such a big res compared to soil volume, air would help keep the water fresh. 


Popped the seeds into Jiffy Pucks last night, got them in a cool little propagation dome I just picked up. This thing is built like a tank. The plastic is almost an 1/8" thick, there is no flex. Has 2 height extenders, I believe it's 14.5" tall inside with both extensions. It was pricey, around $50, but its solid. Vent openings are tight, the bottom tray is super sturdy. Each level has a vertical flange that rides inside the level below it, as well as a horizontal flange. Should last a long time.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 31, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Gonna try to harness a little Turtle Power for this grow  Got the tent setup, catch tray in, and the sips in their new home. For the test run, I'm running 4 Original Glue Fems from GG Genetics.
> View attachment 5020378
> 
> Tent is 30" x 30" x 63". Got a single qb288 on a 135 watt driver for veg. During flower I'll add a couple Samsung F Strips @50 watts each.
> ...


Looking forward to see how they do!


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## GrassBurner (Nov 5, 2021)

All 4 beans sprouted and they are in their sips. Got a whoop ass air pump on the way, and some big flat stones. This air pump I got now couldn't blow a fart from a fly away


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## myke (Nov 5, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> All 4 beans sprouted and they are in their sips. Got a whoop ass air pump on the way, and some big flat stones. This air pump I got now couldn't blow a fart from a fly away


There was talk about airstones back at the beginning of this thread. I seem to remember it didn’t do much.
Edit. I think it will just evaporate the water faster. Maybe later on when roots get in it may do something


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## Hollatchaboy (Nov 5, 2021)

myke said:


> There was talk about airstones back at the beginning of this thread. I seem to remember it didn’t do much?


Don't the roots in the res get enough oxygen from the air gap between res, and soil deck?


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## myke (Nov 5, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Don't the roots in the res get enough oxygen from the air gap between res, and soil deck?


You’d think. I was going going to try it as I have everything I’d need. I’m finding I just don’t get a lot of roots in the res. Strain depending I guess. But last round had very little even though big plants.


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## Hollatchaboy (Nov 5, 2021)

myke said:


> You’d think. I was going going to try it as I have everything I’d need. I’m finding I just don’t get a lot of roots in the res. Strain depending I guess. But last round had very little even though big plants.


I don't know with mine. I'm gonna try no till, so I never pulled mine out. I still feel they get enough.


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## GrassBurner (Nov 5, 2021)

I thought I read somewhere oh this thread that a gentleman noticed explosive roots compared to no air stones. Not sure. I'm just worried bout a lack of air exchange due to only having the one large drain hole, instead of opposing holes.


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## Hollatchaboy (Nov 5, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I thought I read somewhere oh this thread that a gentleman noticed explosive roots compared to no air stones. Not sure. I'm just worried bout a lack of air exchange due to only having the one large drain hole, instead of opposing holes.


That's kinda what I'm working with in the earthbox.


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## myke (Nov 5, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I thought I read somewhere oh this thread that a gentleman noticed explosive roots compared to no air stones. Not sure. I'm just worried bout a lack of air exchange due to only having the one large drain hole, instead of opposing holes.


Roots won’t be there for a awhile yet anyway. 1/2” hole should be enough for air. Every time you fill it will add air.


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## GrassBurner (Nov 5, 2021)

myke said:


> Roots won’t be there for a awhile yet anyway. 1/2” hole should be enough for air. Every time you fill it will add air.


Thanks for the info!! I'll wait until I've got some good roots before I hit em with the air


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## Shiggity (Nov 5, 2021)

I will be interested to see the effect of my vertical air channels through the soil. If there are a lot of roots around them or not.


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## Shiggity (Nov 5, 2021)

Oh and I’m at day 18 of flower. Dynastygenetics Huckleberry DieselV2 This sip is kicking ass and the flowers are stacking hard.


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## GrassBurner (Nov 5, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> I will be interested to see the effect of my vertical air channels through the soil. If there are a lot of roots around them or not.


 I'd like to see that too.


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## weedstoner420 (Nov 5, 2021)

Almost a week on 12/12, they are starting to blow up. I've only ever done one plant per sip before this, and they seemed to fill out the space even with a short veg time. This time they only got about 2 weeks from small 4-5" clones. Also I cut the grass down, now it is mulch


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## GrassBurner (Nov 5, 2021)

Dracarys 1 month from seed today. Gonna take some cuttings off her tonight. 


Here are the ladies in their new homes.


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## Robar (Nov 6, 2021)

myke said:


> Roots won’t be there for a awhile yet anyway. 1/2” hole should be enough for air. Every time you fill it will add air.


Was just going to point that out. As water goes in the fill tube it pushes old air out and sucks fresh air in.


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## Robar (Nov 6, 2021)

I don't post a lot of pics but wanted to jump on and let everyone know that the blue orca haze girls I have going in my sips are just lovin it! I have large hands and compared to my hands some of the big fans look the size of a soft ball glove! Plants are healthy and happy and going strong. I'm sold on the sips and plan on clearing out a lot of my pots and making more sips.


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## Shiggity (Nov 8, 2021)

Loving the soil life in my 27 gallon SIP.


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## Shiggity (Nov 8, 2021)

Its interesting because the mycelium is especially going nuts right next to the air channels. The middle pic in the last post has an air channel too. You can see the fungal mat is curved there, and a little of the air channel fabric poking up.


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## GrassBurner (Nov 8, 2021)

Stripped this big heifer down. Took 21 cuttings off her. Trying to give the smaller plant a chance to catch up.


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## Hollatchaboy (Nov 8, 2021)

Got my cover crop almost all grown in. 



I'm gonna let it go a few more weeks. Get the bacterial and fungal life up, and give a couple more feedings of craft blend, so at transplant there's plenty of food available.


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## Nugnewbie (Nov 9, 2021)

I wasn't sure where to put this post, but being that my plants are growing in SIPS, I decided here would be ok. So, I am on week 5 of vegging these 4 Black Garlic, 2 in each of City Pickers SIP. I am trying to prepare for flower and am also needing to amend as like I said am on week 5 and should amend according to directions approximately once per month. I mixed up a Coots mix type soil to begin with. I intended on amending just prior to flipping to flower with 50% Gaia Green 4-4-4 all purpose, and 50% Gaia Green 2-8-4 Power Bloom at recommended 15ml per 4L (1 tbsp per gallon) of soil.

What I would like to do because top watering in a SIP isn't really the best, is to brew a ewc, compost, and perhaps kelp meal tea, and water my dry amendments in with the tea so I am only watering from the top once. I am not sure if there is any issue with doing it this way, and so I am posing this question to the people who grow in SIPS.


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## myke (Nov 9, 2021)

No problem top watering in the Gaia. I’d go 444 until week 2-3 of bloom then do a 50/50 bloom/veg.


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## Hollatchaboy (Nov 9, 2021)

Nugnewbie said:


> I wasn't sure where to put this post, but being that my plants are growing in SIPS, I decided here would be ok. So, I am on week 5 of vegging these 4 Black Garlic, 2 in each of City Pickers SIP. I am trying to prepare for flower and am also needing to amend as like I said am on week 5 and should amend according to directions approximately once per month. I mixed up a Coots mix type soil to begin with. I intended on amending just prior to flipping to flower with 50% Gaia Green 4-4-4 all purpose, and 50% Gaia Green 2-8-4 Power Bloom at recommended 15ml per 4L (1 tbsp per gallon) of soil.
> 
> What I would like to do because top watering in a SIP isn't really the best, is to brew a ewc, compost, and perhaps kelp meal tea, and water my dry amendments in with the tea so I am only watering from the top once. I am not sure if there is any issue with doing it this way, and so I am posing this question to the people who grow in SIPS.


Welcome, and yes I believe this was a good place to post. How big are your sips? What soil? Once the plants get big, they start to eat. A LOT! Lol. You may need to feed more or more often. 

I top water all the time. If you're watering in a tea, just let the res run dry, and let the soil dry a bit. Then water in your tea. They fill the res, minus what you added in volume of tea, with water. I'll add like 500ml of whatever (i.e. readily available nutrients) if the res is full. Doesn't seem to hurt. I wouldn't do much more than that with water in the res though.


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## Hollatchaboy (Nov 9, 2021)

@myke Is really good with Gaia products. Id listen to his advice.i know I do. Lol


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## myke (Nov 9, 2021)

Big plants will run out of N just after stretch,gaia 444 is 3% water soluble N, 284 is only .5 %.
Big plants I give my 9ish gallons of soil 4-5 tablespoons a week,yes a week.Instructions say 1 tablespoons per gallon a month but were not growing a small petunia ,we grow trees lol. 

Top water I use one full solo cup over a trench of gaia ,this way daily I can top water it in if I have to.


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## myke (Nov 9, 2021)

I also cover the gaia with EWC then top water it in.


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## Hollatchaboy (Nov 9, 2021)

myke said:


> I also cover the gaia with EWC then top water it in.View attachment 5025319


You keep your feedings around the base?


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## myke (Nov 9, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> You keep your feedings around the base?


Yup but ill spread it out before I do the next.I kinda just go half way between stalk and edge.


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## Hollatchaboy (Nov 9, 2021)

myke said:


> Yup but ill spread it out before I do the next.I kinda just go half way between stalk and edge.


Ok I see. I've been spreading it out over the entire surface, but i'm doing no till though and I want nutrition through the entire container. 

My last harvest turned out pretty damn good. I had quite a bit more larf than I wanted though.


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## myke (Nov 9, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Ok I see. I've been spreading it out over the entire surface, but i'm doing no till though and I want nutrition through the entire container.
> 
> My last harvest turned out pretty damn good. I had quite a bit more larf than I wanted though.


Trench is so i can top water over every second day.Just makes it quicker.


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## myke (Nov 9, 2021)

Yeah larfs a bitch,i had a ton also.Going to add my strip lights this time down low hopefully that helps.


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## Nugnewbie (Nov 9, 2021)

myke said:


> No problem top watering in the Gaia. I’d go 444 until week 2-3 of bloom then do a 50/50 bloom/veg.


Ok, yeah guess N still more important. Will go with that plan. 


Hollatchaboy said:


> Welcome, and yes I believe this was a good place to post. How big are your sips? What soil? Once the plants get big, they start to eat. A LOT! Lol. You may need to feed more or more often.
> 
> I top water all the time. If you're watering in a tea, just let the res run dry, and let the soil dry a bit. Then water in your tea. They fill the res, minus what you added in volume of tea, with water. I'll add like 500ml of whatever (i.e. readily available nutrients) if the res is full. Doesn't seem to hurt. I wouldn't do much more than that with water in the res though.


My SIPS are home depot City Pickers planter and hold 2 cu ft or approx 15 gallons of soil. The reservoir holds about 2 gallons of liquid. I have been lurking and reading these forums for a while now. I started a grow in March of this year and managed to overwater the living sht out of all my plants when battling heat and lack of humidity and suffice to say it didn't end well. That is when I started reading and discovered SIPS on this forum. It makes watering so easy. I actually haven't amended the Coots type soil I mixed up. This will be first top dressing. I haven't had the plastic off yet.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Nov 9, 2021)

Nugnewbie said:


> Ok, yeah guess N still more important. Will go with that plan.
> 
> My SIPS are home depot City Pickers planter and hold 2 cu ft or approx 15 gallons of soil. The reservoir holds about 2 gallons of liquid. I have been lurking and reading these forums for a while now. I started a grow in March of this year and managed to overwater the living sht out of all my plants when battling heat and lack of humidity and suffice to say it didn't end well. That is when I started reading and discovered SIPS on this forum. It makes watering so easy. I actually haven't amended the Coots type soil I mixed up. This will be first top dressing. I haven't had the plastic off yet.


Remember, you wanna feed before they need it with living soil. You'll need time for the amendments to break down. The soil will deplete quick so stay on top of your schedule.


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## Hollatchaboy (Nov 9, 2021)

myke said:


> Yeah larfs a bitch,i had a ton also.Going to add my strip lights this time down low hopefully that helps.


Let me know how it works. I got a couple extra boards I could try down low. Lol


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## Nugnewbie (Nov 9, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Remember, you wanna feed before they need it with living soil. You'll need time for the amendments to break down. The soil will deplete quick so stay on top of your schedule.


Yes, I've read that but haven't employed it yet. Thank you for that nugget.


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## Nugnewbie (Nov 9, 2021)

myke said:


> Big plants will run out of N just after stretch,gaia 444 is 3% water soluble N, 284 is only .5 %.
> Big plants I give my 9ish gallons of soil 4-5 tablespoons a week,yes a week.Instructions say 1 tablespoons per gallon a month but were not growing a small petunia ,we grow trees lol.
> 
> Top water I use one full solo cup over a trench of gaia ,this way daily I can top water it in if I have to.


Yes, I am in love with the idea of growing trees, unfortunately i believe i may, i say may cuz i don't really know, vegged these girls a bit too long and fear the dreaded stretch as I don't have an over abundance of headroom in my tent. So, getting them to grow bigger isn't really a goal at this point. A healthier, more robust and trichome laden plant at harvest for sure, just not taller, so I guess I could feed like that if I knew how to train plants better, or at all tbh. I also have a small or had a small gnat problem and wondered if you used any mosquito bits or not. I have beneficial nematodes enroute, but have the bits now. I know the fg aren't that harmful, but also found a caterpillar so..., um yeah.

I should also say, i got them as plants, clones, they were 2 to 3 feet tall and lanky so I topped and bent them over, i guess supercropped them. So, the were likely 3 week old plants when i got them, and I put them in SIPS right away, so yeah, they've probably vegged 8 weeks.


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## Nugnewbie (Nov 10, 2021)

I would like to use rollitup as a resource to help me grow in an efficient way, lessening the mistakes I am bound to make along the way. Eventually I will try to contribute what has worked for me for future newbies, but for now I am just learning. I asked one question, got good feedback but then asked a bunch more, and wonder again if I should have posted the second group of questions in a different area of rollitup forums. Probably answered my own question lol. Anyway, thinking of putting together a journal for this grow. Also, will re-ask my question in "Growing Problems" section.


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## myke (Nov 10, 2021)

Nugnewbie said:


> I would like to use rollitup as a resource to help me grow in an efficient way, lessening the mistakes I am bound to make along the way. Eventually I will try to contribute what has worked for me for future newbies, but for now I am just learning. I asked one question, got good feedback but then asked a bunch more, and wonder again if I should have posted the second group of questions in a different area of rollitup forums. Probably answered my own question lol. Anyway, thinking of putting together a journal for this grow. Also, will re-ask my question in "Growing Problems" section.


Sips take care of the watering which is 90% of the problems people have,add food and ewc to it and your good.Its really that easy.

Keep your soil covered so it stays moist,you can use a spray bottle.Good luck.


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## Nugnewbie (Nov 10, 2021)

myke said:


> Sips take care of the watering which is 90% of the problems people have,add food and ewc to it and your good.Its really that easy.
> 
> Keep your soil covered so it stays moist,you can use a spray bottle.Good luck.


Thanks myke. Yes, started a worm bin that I should be able to harvest by end of the year, and have a source besides my own bin that is local so have that part covered. Thank you for your input.


----------



## Xsan (Nov 16, 2021)

After a bit of a hiatus, I am now able to say howdy fellow sipers. I have some creatures on my sticky traps that are significantly smaller than fungus gnats but not sure what they are. Have any of you come across these and know what they are? I included a gnat for reference as these are about as good of pictures as I could get due to the size of them. This is zoomed all they way in on my phone...


----------



## myke (Nov 16, 2021)

Spring tail of some sort. I’ve had them also. They don’t seem to harm anything I had about a billion of them. Lol


----------



## myke (Nov 16, 2021)

Scope them and see if there the same.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Nov 16, 2021)

Xsan said:


> After a bit of a hiatus, I am now able to say howdy fellow sipers. I have some creatures on my sticky traps that are significantly smaller than fungus gnats but not sure what they are. Have any of you come across these and know what they are? I included a gnat for reference as these are about as good of pictures as I could get due to the size of them. This is zoomed all they way in on my phone...View attachment 5029879


Looks like springtails.


----------



## Xsan (Nov 16, 2021)

gotta love this place, thank you gentlemen. Time to make the wife try her new macro lens for her camera i bought myself LOL


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Nov 16, 2021)

Xsan said:


> gotta love this place, thank you gentlemen. Time to make the wife try her new macro lens for her camera i bought myself LOL


Post the pics afterwards and let's get a good look at them. I had a small outbreak of springtails a couple months ago, so their appearance is still pretty fresh in my memory.


----------



## myke (Nov 16, 2021)

I think mine were called Zebra springtails.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Nov 16, 2021)

Here's what mine looked like...


----------



## myke (Nov 16, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Here's what mine looked like...
> 
> View attachment 5029958
> View attachment 5029959


Looks same.


----------



## weedstoner420 (Nov 17, 2021)

SIPing along in the growboxes, currently 2.5 weeks on 12/12. I might do a top dress in the next week or two, just as a little added insurance, and to give myself something to do...


----------



## BigGpops (Nov 19, 2021)

I keep searching mini sips, I just know somebody besides me had to have made one, I like variety because when i think I've found the one, my mind tells, me there is something else out there with more of everything, and not only that, everything needs to be light weight for me anymore, because pain wants to be my friend, follows me everywhere i go, keeping it simple but not boring, is my goal! Because ya always think ya need to do something, I made 2, prolly more mistakes, my 2nd most recent mistake that happened I want share, because its not good when things go wrong in bloom, my 7 week in bloom tote all 4 plants started showing signs of over watering, i was so confused , so i yanked them up and emptied the 20 gallon tote, and what happened was my reservoir was a tad bit shallower then it should've been, but i used 4 inch square plastic seed starting pots for supporting the flimsy top of the tote,. I drowned them, so dont cheat yourself being cheap, use strong supports, strong totes, spend the extra, 1st mistake was similar but only 1 plant showed signs of over watering, it was the last kernal pupil, i tried so hard to save it, well after a few weeks i figured out, I had the cheap flimsy tote sitting on one of those gym floor scooters, ya use to scoot around in gym class! Well that will not let your tote stay level, most of the water sat in that corner, so make sure your totes are level


----------



## 2com (Nov 19, 2021)

It seems a SIP and a "wicking bed" are very similar, but not exactly the same. And other than the fact a hempy is watered from above, even they have a couple similarities, I think. I have a couple questions.

1) Can these be done with synthetics (ferts, not materials)?

2) What other mediums/substrate do you guys think would work (synthetic or otherwise)? As a wicking medium?

I've read before about the various wicking abilities and limitations of different substrate options, ie: how high water can actually wick up them.

Edit: found this, just started reading. https://www.roogulli.com/uploads/1/2/5/6/125620770/research_proposal.pdf


----------



## Rocket Soul (Nov 19, 2021)

2com said:


> It seems a SIP and a "wicking bed" are very similar, but not exactly the same. And other than the fact a hempy is watered from above, even they have a couple similarities, I think. I have a couple questions.
> 
> 1) Can these be done with synthetics (ferts, not materials)?
> 
> ...


1: there is an extremely interesting version of sips for synthetics: the passive plant killer/ppk. Youll find plenty of threads on ic mag forum, look for delta9 hes the inventor. 
Its basicly a top fed coco system, with a wick to the res and over flow from the res to recirculating main res. Ive never tried it but everybody who dialed it in seems to never go back. The wick has 2 functions, wick from the res up to the root mass incase you have pump failure. The main function is eliminating what they call the perched water tabel. Ill try and explain: when ever you water coco the bottom will allways be a bit wetter than the top, there will be a sort of layer of water in the bottom and this layer will be the last to dry out and so the roots can breath. By having a wick and a res below you can eliminate this watertable, its moved down towards the bottom of the wick and res by osmotic pressure, water attracting water. This means the main part of the substrate is relatively dry and airy, plenty of oxygen for growing. It also means you can do multifeeding without being afraid of water logging roots, even when the rootsystem isnt filling the medium completely. Multi feeding, where you literally flood the pot, means the wwater/feed flows thru the pot, towards the res and as it goes down the wick it pulls in fresh air thru the substrate which means new air every few hours. As ive said i havent tried it and only just about understood it, theres versions of this where they also move the res water separately, sorta like a dutch bucket. But it looks like a sweet deal if you want something recirculating, but also some safety incase a pump dies. But it seems seriously geared towards larger plants. Just search ppk icmag on google and youll start hitting threads. 

I know some do put a bit of soft hydro nutes in the res of regular sips. I think @captainmorgan did it if hes still around. But looks like a recipe of hot soil and nute burnt plants.


----------



## 2com (Nov 19, 2021)

Rocket Soul said:


> 1: there is an extremely interesting version of sips for synthetics: the passive plant killer/ppk. Youll find plenty of threads on ic mag forum, look for delta9 hes the inventor.
> Its basicly a top fed coco system, with a wick to the res and over flow from the res to recirculating main res. Ive never tried it but everybody who dialed it in seems to never go back. The wick has 2 functions, wick from the res up to the root mass incase you have pump failure. The main function is eliminating what they call the perched water tabel. Ill try and explain: when ever you water coco the bottom will allways be a bit wetter than the top, there will be a sort of layer of water in the bottom and this layer will be the last to dry out and so the roots can breath. By having a wick and a res below you can eliminate this watertable, its moved down towards the bottom of the wick and res by osmotic pressure, water attracting water. This means the main part of the substrate is relatively dry and airy, plenty of oxygen for growing. It also means you can do multifeeding without being afraid of water logging roots, even when the rootsystem isnt filling the medium completely. Multi feeding, where you literally flood the pot, means the wwater/feed flows thru the pot, towards the res and as it goes down the wick it pulls in fresh air thru the substrate which means new air every few hours. As ive said i havent tried it and only just about understood it, theres versions of this where they also move the res water separately, sorta like a dutch bucket. But it looks like a sweet deal if you want something recirculating, but also some safety incase a pump dies. But it seems seriously geared towards larger plants. Just search ppk icmag on google and youll start hitting threads.
> 
> I know some do put a bit of soft hydro nutes in the res of regular sips. I think @captainmorgan did it if hes still around. But looks like a recipe of hot soil and nute burnt plants.


Thanks for the reply.
Yea, I remember "ppk" actually, the acronym anyways, from icmag. I never knew what it was, and the name "passive plant killer" didn't clear up anything back when I read the name, hah.
I'll have a quick look though, I'd like to see a diagram/drawing. It doesn't sound like it'd qualify for "sip" though, just wicking? As it's irrigated from above. Either way, interesting.

Thanks.


----------



## JimmyJackCorn (Nov 19, 2021)

2com said:


> It seems a SIP and a "wicking bed" are very similar, but not exactly the same. And other than the fact a hempy is watered from above, even they have a couple similarities, I think. I have a couple questions.
> 
> 1) Can these be done with synthetics (ferts, not materials)?
> 
> ...


Good questions, and I'd be interested if someone tried.

I think any material would work to wick water, as far as growing mediums go. For instance, the material that wicks my reservoir is 3/4" aggregate. If that will wick water, any viable growing medium will.

But then, as you suggest, feeding nutrients could become a problem--at which point this soil-loving, cheap-ass new grower must step back.


----------



## Rocket Soul (Nov 19, 2021)

2com said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> Yea, I remember "ppk" actually, the acronym anyways, from icmag. I never knew what it was, and the name "passive plant killer" didn't clear up anything back when I read the name, hah.
> I'll have a quick look though, I'd like to see a diagram/drawing. It doesn't sound like it'd qualify for "sip" though, just wicking? As it's irrigated from above. Either way, interesting.
> 
> Thanks.


Ive also seen it called pound plant killer. 
Its maybe not a sip really per se but an evolution of it. Youd only really be relying on the bottom res for watering if there was a failure of the top feeding.

Id love to see some tests, 5 gallon pot and 5 gallon ppk pot, water them both until complete saturation/runoff, then take the substrate and weigh it, to find out how much water is removed from the substrate by the wick leading water down to the res.


----------



## Hash Hound (Nov 19, 2021)

here's my latest experiment. a hempy/sip convertible in perlite pea gravel vermiculite mix I've had left over from hydroponic peppers I grew over 20 yrs ago. I had to mix in some Pittmoss (recycled paper/cardboard) to fill the 4g bucket.
the hole is in the bottom so old nutes get flushed out. Plus it can rotate 90 deg to allow the bucket to be placed in a larger container to act as the reservoir if needed if I'm away. I have a shorter tube to replace the big one. the bigger one allowed me to keep the water level up a bit for the tap root. And there are pieces of drywall corner molding in the corners to allow more air down low.

my own Toxic Cookies (turkish cookies x my widow)


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Nov 20, 2021)

BigGpops said:


> I keep searching mini sips, I just know somebody besides me had to have made one, I like variety because when i think I've found the one, my mind tells, me there is something else out there with more of everything, and not only that, everything needs to be light weight for me anymore, because pain wants to be my friend, follows me everywhere i go, keeping it simple but not boring, is my goal! Because ya always think ya need to do something, I made 2, prolly more mistakes, my 2nd most recent mistake that happened I want share, because its not good when things go wrong in bloom, my 7 week in bloom tote all 4 plants started showing signs of over watering, i was so confused , so i yanked them up and emptied the 20 gallon tote, and what happened was my reservoir was a tad bit shallower then it should've been, but i used 4 inch square plastic seed starting pots for supporting the flimsy top of the tote,. I drowned them, so dont cheat yourself being cheap, use strong supports, strong totes, spend the extra, 1st mistake was similar but only 1 plant showed signs of over watering, it was the last kernal pupil, i tried so hard to save it, well after a few weeks i figured out, I had the cheap flimsy tote sitting on one of those gym floor scooters, ya use to scoot around in gym class! Well that will not let your tote stay level, most of the water sat in that corner, so make sure your totes are level


Just buy earthboxes.. or earthbox minis. Problems solved.


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## Tim Fox (Nov 20, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Just buy earthboxes.. or earthbox minis. Problems solved.


Or growbox my personal favorite https://www.agardenpatch.com/?kwd=growbox&matchtype=e&creative=326404179968&device=m&pos&utm_source=google&utm_medium=[value]&utm_campaign=189412725&utm_term=growbox&utm_content=adwords-search&?device=m&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxKuGsI6o9AIVGh-tBh2p1wW3EAAYASAAEgLJE_D_BwE


----------



## BigGpops (Nov 20, 2021)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Just buy earthboxes.. or earthbox minis. Problems solved.


What i grow in cost less than 5 bucks each! 
and works like your gro box! I like to make my own everything, more gratification!


----------



## NewGrower2011 (Nov 21, 2021)

Can't say anything but good things about the Rubbermaid Brute Totes that I used. Not cheap, but not that bad when compared to the marked up hydro crap from the industry which is just a bucket or pail, some tubing an elbow and a gromet. 

I've been thinking of making a dtw or flood/drain again - maybe something hybrid myself. I've got some salt-based nutes I need to use up and have been thinking of ways to mod the SIPs for this. I've got some danner pumps & tubing, etc. Just need to convince myself what type of setup to go with.


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## 2com (Nov 21, 2021)

NewGrower2011 said:


> I've been thinking of making a dtw or flood/drain again - maybe something hybrid myself. I've got some salt-based nutes I need to use up and have been thinking of ways to mod the SIPs for this. I've got some danner pumps & tubing, etc. Just need to convince myself what type of setup to go with.


Me too.


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## Shiggity (Nov 26, 2021)

Huckleberry dieselV2 day 39 flower. She has some big ass stems. I find the SIPs make huge stem growth. I’m sure you do as well. Each one is as thick as the base of my middle finger. I bet this soil comes out as one whole block of roots.


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## GrassBurner (Nov 26, 2021)

Ninja Turtle sips are finally moving along. I had the buttons on the timer backwards, so they were on a 6/18 light schedule the first couple of weeks  Oops. Got that fixed and they're on the way. 


This is the Dracarys I took 21 cuts off of. Hoped it would slow it down, definitely didn't  Put it in the 4x4 by itself, and flipped the lights to 12/12, I know she's gonna stretch.


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## GrassBurner (Nov 27, 2021)

Made a scrog net for the smaller Dracarys in the 2x4


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## myke (Nov 27, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Ninja Turtle sips are finally moving along. I had the buttons on the timer backwards, so they were on a 6/18 light schedule the first couple of weeks  Oops. Got that fixed and they're on the way.
> View attachment 5036057
> 
> This is the Dracarys I took 21 cuts off of. Hoped it would slow it down, definitely didn't  Put it in the 4x4 by itself, and flipped the lights to 12/12, I know she's gonna stretch.
> View attachment 5036072


So plants started flowering and now you've switched it back to veg? Gonna be some bushy plants


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## GrassBurner (Nov 27, 2021)

Luckily I had 2 tents in veg, and I had the doors to both partially open. So they were getting 18 hours of light, but 12 of those were very dim  They weren't thrilled with the circumstances


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## myke (Nov 27, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Luckily I had 2 tents in veg, and I had the doors to both partially open. So they were getting 18 hours of light, but 12 of those were very dim  They weren't thrilled with the circumstances


Ya they don't look like they've been flipped,They just had some rest time, ha,


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## Hollatchaboy (Nov 28, 2021)

Getting ready for round 2.....



Just put a few clones into solo cups. Now waiting for them to take root, and I'll transplant the lucky one into earthbox.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 1, 2021)

4 weeks veg 4 weeks in flower , it's going to be a merry Christmas and happy new year, hope everyone's grows are cruising along ,


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## GrassBurner (Dec 1, 2021)

Plants in the small sip are moving right along. Any recommendations for training in such a small area? Tent is 30 x 30, scrog net?


Roots found the water 


Veg seems to be going good, other than my initial light mistake. Haven't fed them anything yet, think ill try this concentrated Dr Earth bottle I've got. I'm a bit concerned about keeping them fed during flowering being in 3 gallons of soil. @myke , did I read somewhere you top dress with Gaia once a week? Maybe I could use these dry ammendments to make a tea per label instructions.


----------



## myke (Dec 1, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Plants in the small sip are moving right along. Any recommendations for training in such a small area? Tent is 30 x 30, scrog net?
> View attachment 5038985
> 
> Roots found the water
> ...


Yes once a week,but....3g of soil isn't much.Its like 3g of water in hydro one minute pH is fine then it rises to 8 in just a couple of hours.Constantly jumping around.So I think youll need to find the right amount and feed often.Easy to over do it but yet it will run out quickly.Not sure what pH will do.Youll want to start feeding now with dry,start low and see.2 tbls and a little ewc say a cup.See how it goes.


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## GrassBurner (Dec 2, 2021)

myke said:


> Yes once a week,but....3g of soil isn't much.Its like 3g of water in hydro one minute pH is fine then it rises to 8 in just a couple of hours.Constantly jumping around.So I think youll need to find the right amount and feed often.Easy to over do it but yet it will run out quickly.Not sure what pH will do.Youll want to start feeding now with dry,start low and see.2 tbls and a little ewc say a cup.See how it goes.



Thanks for the advice!!


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## myke (Dec 2, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Thanks for the advice!!


Do you have the liquid or dry food?


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## GrassBurner (Dec 2, 2021)

myke said:


> Do you have the liquid or dry food?


I've got both. Dr Earth Flowergirl dry ammendment, and Dr Earth Pure Gold liquid concentrate


----------



## myke (Dec 2, 2021)

https://www.amazon.ca/Neptunes-Harvest-HF136-Hydrolyzed-Fertilizer/dp/B0012Q2TFA?th=1
This is pretty popular with the organic gurus.


----------



## myke (Dec 2, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I've got both. Dr Earth Flowergirl dry ammendment, and Dr Earth Pure Gold liquid concentrate
> View attachment 5039169


@010833]Hollatchaboy[/USER][USER=1

uses this stuff,he can comment.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Dec 2, 2021)

myke said:


> *@Hollatchaboy
> 
> uses this stuff,he can comment.*


Lol I was just about to bro 

I've used it. It works good. No complaints. I try to stick to vegan inputs as much as possible though.


----------



## GrassBurner (Dec 2, 2021)

I've got a bottle of Neptune's Harvest somewhere, probably need to order another bottle. Should I go with the blend that has seaweed in it?


----------



## myke (Dec 2, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I've got a bottle of Neptune's Harvest somewhere, probably need to order another bottle. Should I go with the blend that has seaweed in it?


Should work well,Id think with that small tent you'll want to flip the light soon?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Dec 2, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I've got a bottle of Neptune's Harvest somewhere, probably need to order another bottle. Should I go with the blend that has seaweed in it?


What are you going for? The seaweed version is 0-0-1. Id use that maybe for late flower? 

Get some gaia 444 for veg or some craft blend if you don't mind spending the extra, and use the fish fertilizer when your plants aren't looking so good.

You could just do nutrient/compost teas as well. They always seem to perk my plants up.


----------



## myke (Dec 2, 2021)

The one I linked is what you want,its fast food lol.


----------



## GrassBurner (Dec 2, 2021)

Yeah i might flip them this weekend. Gotta do it soon! @Hollatchaboy I reckon I'll go with the regular Neptune's Harvest  Thanks for all the info guys!!


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Dec 2, 2021)

myke said:


> The one I linked is what you want,its fast food lol.


Yes, that's the good stuff. Lol


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Dec 2, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Yeah i might flip them this weekend. Gotta do it soon! @Hollatchaboy I reckon I'll go with the regular Neptune's Harvest  Thanks for all the info guys!!


Yea it's good stuff. Eden blue gold fusion veg, and fusion flower are pretty good too.


----------



## myke (Dec 2, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Yeah i might flip them this weekend. Gotta do it soon! @Hollatchaboy I reckon I'll go with the regular Neptune's Harvest  Thanks for all the info guys!!


Timing stretch with roots hitting the res is the hydroponic part.They should take off and double in size.Feed them now.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Dec 2, 2021)

myke said:


> Timing stretch with roots hitting the res is the hydroponic part.They should take off and double in size.Feed them now.


Agreed.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 2, 2021)

myke said:


> Timing stretch with roots hitting the res is the hydroponic part.They should take off and double in size.Feed them now.


How long after transplant, do you notice the roots hitting the res? I feel like mine hit the res within a week.


----------



## myke (Dec 2, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> How long after transplant, do you notice the roots hitting the res? I feel like mine hit the res within a week.


Yup,the roots just fly towards the wick ,its like a magnet lol.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Dec 2, 2021)

myke said:


> Yup,the roots just fly towards the wick ,its like a magnet lol.


Ok, I thought so, but it just seemed like it was too fast. I guess the roots never sleep. Lol


----------



## weedstoner420 (Dec 2, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> 4 weeks veg 4 weeks in flower , it's going to be a merry Christmas and happy new year, hope everyone's grows are cruising along , View attachment 5038948View attachment 5038949View attachment 5038950View attachment 5038951View attachment 5038952View attachment 5038953


Dang that one on the left really took over eh? They look absolutely stoked on life!


----------



## Tim Fox (Dec 2, 2021)

weedstoner420 said:


> Dang that one on the left really took over eh? They look absolutely stoked on life!


yup, the runt on the right just never took off,, i couldnt cut it down so its alive down there hahah, well first time filling the box with one plant, the big plant is a praying monster , gonna be allot of bud come harvest


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## GrassBurner (Dec 2, 2021)

1 plant per sip is the truth  I've got one in flower that will suck the res dry in a matter of hours. 1 plant has just about filled out a 4x4 in a 15 gallon city Picker


----------



## myke (Dec 2, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> 1 plant per sip is the truth  I've got one in flower that will suck the res dry in a matter of hours. 1 plant has just about filled out a 4x4 in a 15 gallon city Picker


You have 3 tents?


----------



## Nugnewbie (Dec 2, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> 1 plant per sip is the truth  I've got one in flower that will suck the res dry in a matter of hours. 1 plant has just about filled out a 4x4 in a 15 gallon city Picker


Hi @GrassBurner , I am a new grower and have 2 City Picker SIP, each w/ 2 plants in each. I am 20 days into flower. How long did you veg for to almost fill your 4x4 with one plant?


----------



## GrassBurner (Dec 2, 2021)

myke said:


> You have 3 tents?


I have an addiction  I've got a 2x4 cabinet, a 4x4 tent, a 2x2 tent, and a 2x3 cabinet.


----------



## GrassBurner (Dec 2, 2021)

Nugnewbie said:


> Hi @GrassBurner , I am a new grower and have 2 City Picker SIP, each w/ 2 plants in each. I am 20 days into flower. How long did you veg for to almost fill your 4x4 with one plant?


Looking back through the pics, looks like 7 weeks. I took 21 cuts off the plant around week 4 or 5, probably slowed her down a little, but she is thriving now


----------



## weedstoner420 (Dec 2, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> yup, the runt on the right just never took off,, i couldnt cut it down so its alive down there hahah, well first time filling the box with one plant, the big plant is a praying monster , gonna be allot of bud come harvest


Hell yeah! I'm doing 2 per box this time but they are clones of the same plant (in each box) with almost no training and flipped at about 8" tall. I probably could have topped once, but they really do grow to fill the available root space


----------



## GrassBurner (Dec 2, 2021)

@myke I used to have a loft, now the plants do


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Dec 2, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I have an addiction  I've got a 2x4 cabinet, a 4x4 tent, a 2x2 tent, and a 2x3 cabinet.


I got one also. I'm on 3. Lol


----------



## Tim Fox (Dec 2, 2021)

i would sure like to have a second grow space, with my son and his GF living here, and they both smoke me under the table, i am doing 2 winter grows in my little wardrobe just to keep up, they are enjoying some autos i grew outdoors last summer (thanks Rob) but they have plans to head off to college next fall,,, so it will probably be the usually grow box,,, i have ran so many grows thru this box since it got put together,, with the SIP and cobs this thing is almost auto pilot most of the time,,,


----------



## Tim Fox (Dec 2, 2021)

weedstoner420 said:


> Hell yeah! I'm doing 2 per box this time but they are clones of the same plant (in each box) with almost no training and flipped at about 8" tall. I probably could have topped once, but they really do grow to fill the available root space


looking forward to seeing your grow progress, its surprising how big they get in these sips,,,


----------



## weedstoner420 (Dec 3, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> looking forward to seeing your grow progress, its surprising how big they get in these sips,,,


I think I'm actually around the same time as you - 4.5 weeks of 12/12. They're starting to chunk up a bit. Right side:

I have flowered this plant 3 times and kept a mom for a year and a half. She's always done that crinkly leaf thing ever since she was a baby, in the same space/soil with other plants that look normal. I keep her around because the smoke is my favorite. I think either she is very finicky/sensitive to light and nutes, and hopefully one day I will figure out what she wants, or she is just a mutant and will always look funky no matter what.

Left side:

This one is the night time weed. I also had a runt this round (the one on the left/front). It had kind of a rough transplant and just didn't catch up. These were the same size when I put them in.


----------



## myke (Dec 3, 2021)

weedstoner420 said:


> I think I'm actually around the same time as you - 4.5 weeks of 12/12. They're starting to chunk up a bit. Right side:
> View attachment 5039484
> I have flowered this plant 3 times and kept a mom for a year and a half. She's always done that crinkly leaf thing ever since she was a baby, in the same space/soil with other plants that look normal. I keep her around because the smoke is my favorite. I think either she is very finicky/sensitive to light and nutes, and hopefully one day I will figure out what she wants, or she is just a mutant and will always look funky no matter what.
> 
> ...


Is it just the light showing those leaves on the crinkly one? Sure looks like it needs some Mg?
I know some strains dont like the constant moisture,cant regulate that but have you grown that strain much bigger?Wondering if it still shows the clawed leaves?
So far with my sips small plants haven't done so well,just to wet, they dont drink fast enough.


----------



## Kayaganja (Dec 3, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> I find myself wondering if we are going to ad.nutes to the res and pour.teas over the top ect ect , why not.just grow in coco and get the full bore benefits of hydro without the work of a DWC , or go hempy bucks which is a sip with a res with nutes and get full blown hydro results , not knocking anyone I would never do that, but I gravitate towards easy inam lazy beyond measure and sips take all the work out , ,


Been thinking about this, found the https://biotabs.nl/product/pastillas-fertilizantes-biotabs/ , but seems like you’l have To PH water if am not wrong , maybe worth a try ,


----------



## speedwell68 (Dec 3, 2021)

What an epic thread, very inspirational. I have the basic design of a SIP that will suit my needs.

As anyone considered using Oasis block as a wicking medium?


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## myke (Dec 3, 2021)

speedwell68 said:


> What an epic thread, very inspirational. I have the basic design of a SIP that will suit my needs.
> 
> As anyone considered using Oasis block as a wicking medium?


Roots grow through the wick and into the water,regular same soil works best.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 3, 2021)

weedstoner420 said:


> I think I'm actually around the same time as you - 4.5 weeks of 12/12. They're starting to chunk up a bit. Right side:
> View attachment 5039484
> I have flowered this plant 3 times and kept a mom for a year and a half. She's always done that crinkly leaf thing ever since she was a baby, in the same space/soil with other plants that look normal. I keep her around because the smoke is my favorite. I think either she is very finicky/sensitive to light and nutes, and hopefully one day I will figure out what she wants, or she is just a mutant and will always look funky no matter what.
> 
> ...


I hear you about having a strain that you like and love, having a mother is a dream come true, since I don't have space to keep a mother or to even cut my own clones I buy clones from the state legal store , but they keep changing the strains , almost never the same choices grow to grow , I enjoy trying different strains but I miss old favorites, , I totally get the runt factor , I grow in really hot soil for my water only grows and this one strain I choose just never could get used to the soil and got left behind , , it finally adjusted to the soil but by that time the other plant had taken over the space


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## weedstoner420 (Dec 3, 2021)

myke said:


> Is it just the light showing those leaves on the crinkly one? Sure looks like it needs some Mg?
> I know some strains dont like the constant moisture,cant regulate that but have you grown that strain much bigger?Wondering if it still shows the clawed leaves?
> So far with my sips small plants haven't done so well,just to wet, they dont drink fast enough.


I'm not really sure, you're right there is some yellowing between the veins, it's not the light reflecting.

I thought Mg at first too, but it's mostly on the upper leaves. So then I was thinking Manganese deficiency (looks similar to Mg but it's immobile so it affects newer growth). The first time I grew her, I did foliar sprays and top-watered with epsom salts (for Mg) and a micronutrient thing and soluble kelp for the Mn, neither one made a bit of difference. Last time I grew her I didn't pack the soil in the SIP as tight (not on purpose) and it was actually fairly dry, this time it's pretty wet and she looks basically the same...

It could also be a reaction to the light intensity, because the mother plant does it when she grows close to the light too (which is just an LED shop light, not the COBs I have in the tent), and the most affected leaves are the ones that get the most direct light.

At this point I'm thinking she is just very sensitive to light and nutes, doesn't want much of either one, and too much throws her off. Next time I'm thinking of doing more training to keep her short and wide, and might go with a weaker soil mix, see how that goes.


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## weedstoner420 (Dec 3, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> I hear you about having a strain that you like and love, having a mother is a dream come true, since I don't have space to keep a mother or to even cut my own clones I buy clones from the state legal store , but they keep changing the strains , almost never the same choices grow to grow , I enjoy trying different strains but I miss old favorites, , I totally get the runt factor , I grow in really hot soil for my water only grows and this one strain I choose just never could get used to the soil and got left behind , , it finally adjusted to the soil but by that time the other plant had taken over the space


I have a 4-foot by 8-inch shelf with an LED shop light that I use for clones and a couple micro-moms (in 4 inch square pots). All I've grown is bagseeds from some modern poly-hybrids, no big names but that crinkle leaf one has really stood out as a clear/energizing daytime high with no hard edge or burnout. I'm glad I've been able to keep her around, even if she looks kinda crummy. No stores that sell clones where I'm at (yet), but I run into the same issue with the flower they carry at medical dispensaries - find something you really like and it's not around the next time you go shopping.


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## GrassBurner (Dec 4, 2021)

Flipping these girls tonight. Fed them some liquid fertilizer 2 days ago, top dressing them with 3tbsp flowergirl and a cup of ewc tonight. Got another bottle of Neptune's Harvest on the way. 


Dracarys in the 4x4 is filling out the net, it's been flipped to flower as well. She's been chugging water. Did a lot of weaving in the net tonight. 


Dracarys in the 2x4. Need to do some training on it next.


Released predator mites, rove beetles, and watered in nematodes in all the containers. Also released some ladybugs. Anybody have any experience using any of the enzyme products out there as a preventative?


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 10, 2021)

Ok, so I just chopped my cover crop. Does anybody know is it better to transplant into it right away, or can I let it break down a bit first?


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## Hairybuds (Dec 10, 2021)

2com said:


> It seems a SIP and a "wicking bed" are very similar, but not exactly the same. And other than the fact a hempy is watered from above, even they have a couple similarities, I think. I have a couple questions.
> 
> 1) Can these be done with synthetics (ferts, not materials)?
> 
> ...


yes I run my sips with synthetic nutes, but never in the reservoir, when you get into flower they are so thirsty that I can top water nutes in no problem. I run with a top layer of sand on soil. I fertilize with 800 ml so it doesn’t supersaturate the soil


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## GrassBurner (Dec 11, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Ok, so I just chopped my cover crop. Does anybody know is it better to transplant into it right away, or can I let it break down a bit first?
> 
> View attachment 5044388
> View attachment 5044387


I would mix them into the top layer of soil, lightly water,, then plant. Will help speed up the breakdown process.


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## myke (Dec 11, 2021)

Hairybuds said:


> yes I run my sips with synthetic nutes, but never in the reservoir, when you get into flower they are so thirsty that I can top water nutes in no problem. I run with a top layer of sand on soil. I fertilize with 800 ml so it doesn’t supersaturate the soil


How often and at what strength do you feed? Also how big are the sips? Thanks


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## GrassBurner (Dec 11, 2021)

I've used Aqua Flakes A+B with a little Multizyme in my city pickers reservoir numerous times, but only in flower when they are super thirsty. Quick fix when you're having trouble keeping up with their appetite. I don't think it's in the res long enough for more than the wicks to absorb.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I would mix them into the top layer of soil, lightly water,, then plant. Will help speed up the breakdown process.


So should I put my transplant in right away? I'm just asking, because the roots will be dead now, so the bacterial/fungal relationship will die now too? Should I get new, living roots in right away, or does it not matter much?


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## GrassBurner (Dec 11, 2021)

I would think the dead cover crop will provide what the bacteria and fungus need, along with other dead plant matter already in the soil. I'd go ahead and plant.


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## GrassBurner (Dec 11, 2021)

Maybe even put some hay on top after you mix and water in the cover crop, help keep that top layer moist and speed up the process.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Maybe even put some hay on top after you mix and water in the cover crop, help keep that top layer moist and speed up the process.


I've got the shower cap on. Lol


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## GrassBurner (Dec 11, 2021)

That ought to do it


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## Hairybuds (Dec 11, 2021)

myke said:


> How often and at what strength do you feed? Also how big are the sips? Thanks


2 tsp of 1-4-7 and 2 tsp of 4-0-1 during stretch every 4 days then it’s 2 tsp of 1-4-7 and 1/2 tsp of 4-0-1 every four days during mid flower. Sips are about 6.6 gallon reservoir and 5gal pots


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## myke (Dec 11, 2021)

Hairybuds said:


> 2 tsp of 1-4-7 and 2 tsp of 4-0-1 during stretch every 4 days then it’s 2 tsp of 1-4-7 and 1/2 tsp of 4-0-1 every four days during mid flower. Sips are about 6.6 gallon reservoir and 5gal pots


Oh ok so this is liquid part A and B,so about 10ml of ea to 800ml water or per gallon? Id think gallon.

My one girl is running out of food,dry nutes can't keep up and always thought about adding a synthetic boost.My food is similar in NPK Ill try a test mix and see what EC I get.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

myke said:


> Oh ok so this is liquid part A and B,so about 10ml of ea to 800ml water or per gallon? Id think gallon.
> 
> My one girl is running out of food,dry nutes can't keep up and always thought about adding a synthetic boost.My food is similar in NPK Ill try a test mix and see what EC I get.


Is she in veg or flower?


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## myke (Dec 11, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Is she in veg or flower?


As usual running out of food haha. Dumping Gaia kinda works but always wondered if I gave her a shot of salts what would happen.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

myke said:


> As usual running out of food haha. Dumping Gaia kinda works but always wondered if I gave her a shot of salts what would happen. View attachment 5044696


Get some build a bloom. Keep it organic. Lol


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## myke (Dec 11, 2021)

I’ve given her two doses of fish shit already. Kinda has helped. More of a learning experience just to see the difference


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

myke said:


> As usual running out of food haha. Dumping Gaia kinda works but always wondered if I gave her a shot of salts what would happen. View attachment 5044696


If you're looking for more of a N boost get some of this......


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

myke said:


> I’ve given her two doses of fish shit already. Kinda has helped. More of a learning experience just to see the difference


I got a sample of that like 2 years ago. I haven't used it yet though. I wanted to talk to somebody who uses it first. What do you think of it?


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## myke (Dec 11, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Get some build a bloom. Keep it organic. Lol


Well as you know once you fall behind in organic you can’t catch up. So was just wondering say if no one was looking I’d slip here a little salt lol.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

myke said:


> Well as you know once you fall behind in organic you can’t catch up. So was just wondering say if no one was looking I’d slip here a little salt lol.


Yea I know the struggle pretty well now. It's the only part about organic, that i don't like.

I'm pretty sure both the build a bloom, and the soy aminos, are readily available, and it could keep you organic, but..... the salts are tempting. Lol


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## myke (Dec 11, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea I know the struggle pretty well now. It's the only part about organic, that i don't like.
> 
> I'm pretty sure both the build a bloom, and the soy aminos, are readily available, and it could keep you organic, but..... the salts are tempting. Lol


Its really just a boost, shouldn't hurt anything organic.The fish stuff had I done it sooner would have been OK.My own dam fault for letting her get so big.The other smaller plants are doing fine with just the Gaia.


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## myke (Dec 11, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I got a sample of that like 2 years ago. I haven't used it yet though. I wanted to talk to somebody who uses it first. What do you think of it?


I used it on outdoor flowers,its mild bottle says 10ml\L for outdoor and 5ml/L in pots.I did 13ish ml/L.Have given her two times 1 litre ea about 5 days apart. Stinks a little at first but goes away.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

myke said:


> Its really just a boost, shouldn't hurt anything organic.The fish stuff had I done it sooner would have been OK.My own dam fault for letting her get so big.The other smaller plants are doing fine with just the Gaia.


Yea I get it. In the long run, it'll be what's better for the plant and your bud. You don't want any limiting factors in flower. Especially nutrition. 

That's another problem with organics, never knowing when the right time is. At least not until you learn the strain with your setup.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

myke said:


> I used it on outdoor flowers,its mild bottle says 10ml\L for outdoor and 5ml/L in pots.I did 13ish ml/L.Have given her two times 1 litre ea about 5 days apart. Stinks a little at first but goes away.


Did you notice a difference? For the better? Lol


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## myke (Dec 11, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Did you notice a difference? For the better? Lol


Looking like a little green has shown up so far,just did another dose.Its 2-3-1 so not that strong.Added some Gaia with it also.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

myke said:


> Looking like a little green has shown up so far,just did another dose.Its 2-3-1 so not that strong.Added some Gaia with it also.


Maybe I'll try the sampler I got on a clone that's not taking off real well. See what it does.


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## myke (Dec 11, 2021)

So for the cover crop from what I remember is you plant it in like week 5 ish of flower. So it uses up the extra N lol. I wish. Then you leave it until after harvest,plant the seedling then once it starts taking off like 2-3 weeks you mash everything down and cover with all your left overs from harvest (leaves,stems)and some alfalfa or similar. This is food for next Round.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

myke said:


> So for the cover crop from what I remember is you plant it in like week 5 ish of flower. So it uses up the extra N lol. I wish. Then you leave it until after harvest,plant the seedling then once it starts taking off like 2-3 weeks you mash everything down and cover with all your left overs from harvest (leaves,stems)and some alfalfa or similar. This is food for next Round.


Too late. I already chopped. Lol
I added 1/2 cup of gnarly barley as well.
I'll see if I can get the transplant out of the solo cup in the morning. Its only been in there for a week and a half, so I'm kinda hesitant.


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## Hairybuds (Dec 11, 2021)

myke said:


> Oh ok so this is liquid part A and B,so about 10ml of ea to 800ml water or per gallon? Id think gallon.
> 
> My one girl is running out of food,dry nutes can't keep up and always thought about adding a synthetic boost.My food is similar in NPK Ill try a test mix and see what EC I get.


I mix the 10 ml of each into 3.2 litres and give four plants each 800ml.


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## myke (Dec 11, 2021)

Hairybuds said:


> I mix the 10 ml of each into 3.2 litres and give four plants each 800ml.


That sounds right,when I did hydro 3ml/L of ea was my normal.


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## GrassBurner (Dec 11, 2021)

Keep your eye out for hemp plants to sprout from the gnarly barley. I had a male hemp plant sprout in the back of my cabinet, and didn't notice until that fucker started making balls  Tiny little fellow, but he would have seeded my grow with some trash pollen.


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## GrassBurner (Dec 11, 2021)

She's a real beaut Clark  We've got buds forming  I'm throwing the food at her like she's a Jersey Heifer. Gonna make a tea out of the Flowergirl for her tonight. Label says 2 cups per 5 gallons of water. Says water with the tea, then mulch the solids. Think I'll make 2 gallons, use it on this plant and the small sips.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Keep your eye out for hemp plants to sprout from the gnarly barley. I had a male hemp plant sprout in the back of my cabinet, and didn't notice until that fucker started making balls  Tiny little fellow, but he would have seeded my grow with some trash pollen.


I got the newer blend without the hemp seed, and I ground it into meal.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> She's a real beaut Clark  We've got buds forming  I'm throwing the food at her like she's a Jersey Heifer. Gonna make a tea out of the Flowergirl for her tonight. Label says 2 cups per 5 gallons of water. Says water with the tea, then mulch the solids. Think I'll make 2 gallons, use it on this plant and the small sips.
> 
> View attachment 5044916


Lookin good!


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## GrassBurner (Dec 11, 2021)

Thanks!! Getting to this point is pretty simple, it's the next 2 months that will be the challenge


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I got the newer blend without the hemp seed, and I ground it into meal.


Thanks for the heads up though. I know that was an issue for the gnarly barley, even after grounding it up. 
I did end up getting a pea pod looking thing in my cover crop though. Lol


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Thanks!! Getting to this point is pretty simple, it's the next 2 months that will be the challenge


Amen brother. I wish flower went as smooth veg does. Lol


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## GrassBurner (Dec 11, 2021)

I about shit when I opened the tent and saw male pods poking up through my female plant  With a lot of us running organic soil in sips, things should get easier for us. I learn new things all the time on this thread


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I about shit when I opened the tent and saw male pods poking up through my female plant  With a lot of us running organic soil in sips, things should get easier for us. I learn new things all the time on this thread


Do you run your sips no till?


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## GrassBurner (Dec 11, 2021)

Oh no, I till the hell out of it  I used to empty the sips into my fresh soil pile, then refill them with that mixture. Then I added my dry ammendments and some ewc, and mixed it all up. This run here I just mixed in the ammendments and ewc into the same soil. I did let these sips sit for a month or so to break down the rootball before using them.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Oh no, I till the hell out of it  I used to empty the sips into my fresh soil pile, then refill them with that mixture. Then I added my dry ammendments and some ewc, and mixed it all up. This run here I just mixed in the ammendments and ewc into the same soil. I did let these sips sit for a month or so to break down the rootball before using them.


Ok. Seems everybody does that with their sips. I feel like I'm the only one trying to run one no till. Lol

It seems to me the better option for no till, though the earthbox is too small. I'm thinking about doing a diy 20 gal. tote. It should do the trick, but I'd like to go bigger, like Xmas tree tote size. Lol


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## GrassBurner (Dec 11, 2021)

Make on from a 275 gallon tote  Cut the top off at 24 inches, flip it upside down, put it into the bottom of the tote and that's your soil container. It already has a 6" hole in the middle. Could make a giant peat wick there, and run some thick wicking rope out like spider legs. Give you about 130 gallons of soil, and a 50+ gallon reservoir depending on how far down you brought the soil container into the reservoir. Put some air disc's in there, and grow some monsters. 
Would definitely need 8' ceilings


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## GrassBurner (Dec 11, 2021)

If you do no till, I'd put landscaping fabric over the soil shelf. I noticed a huge reduction in soil in the reservoir after each run with the fabric. Didn't effect the roots getting into the res, but kept most of the worms out, and the dirt they brought with them.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Make on from a 275 gallon tote  Cut the top off at 24 inches, flip it upside down, put it into the bottom of the tote and that's your soil container. It already has a 6" hole in the middle. Could make a giant peat wick there, and run some thick wicking rope out like spider legs. Give you about 130 gallons of soil, and a 50+ gallon reservoir depending on how far down you brought the soil container into the reservoir. Put some air disc's in there, and grow some monsters.
> Would definitely need 8' ceilings


Ah....I can only dream. Lol


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 11, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> If you do no till, I'd put landscaping fabric over the soil shelf. I noticed a huge reduction in soil in the reservoir after each run with the fabric. Didn't effect the roots getting into the res, but kept most of the worms out, and the dirt they brought with them.


Yea I didn't do that. Depending on how this run goes, will decide if I run another cycle in it. If I don't I'm definitely putting some landscape fabric down before I start it up again.


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## Shiggity (Dec 12, 2021)

Day 53 Nearing the finish. Huck dieselV2 from dynastygenetics. Sour diesel leaning pheno. Took a test branch and it’s really citrus with a hint of berry. Energetic buzz that sinks into a body buzz. Temps got high for a quick minute but she’s fine now, just a little leaf taco.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 12, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> Day 53 Nearing the finish. Huck dieselV2 from dynastygenetics. Sour diesel leaning pheno. Took a test branch and it’s really citrus with a hint of berry. Energetic buzz that sinks into a body buzz. Temps got high for a quick minute but she’s fine now, just a little leaf taco.
> View attachment 5045100View attachment 5045101View attachment 5045102View attachment 5045103View attachment 5045104View attachment 5045105


Looks good man!


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## Shiggity (Dec 12, 2021)

I think those vertical air channels really helped this grow with the yellowing. I didn’t have any issues with the wet soil releasing nitrogen like I have had before.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 12, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> I think those vertical air channels really helped this grow with the yellowing. I didn’t have any issues with the wet soil releasing nitrogen like I have had before.


What's that? You just dig channels into the soil?


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## Shiggity (Dec 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> What's that? You just dig channels into the soil?


I took some 3” corrugated pipe and cut holes in every layer. Wrapped it in a drainage sock and placed it in the soil right on top of the resevoir. Keeps the soil oxygenated. Wet soils in absence of oxygen cause denitrifying bacteria to convert nitate to n2 and n20 which are both gases.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 12, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> I took some 3” corrugated pipe and cut holes in every layer. Wrapped it in a drainage sock and placed it in the soil right on top of the resevoir. Keeps the soil oxygenated. Wet soils in absence of oxygen cause denitrifying bacteria to convert nitate to n2 and n20 which are both gases.View attachment 5045115View attachment 5045116


Oh, perforated plastic pipe. Do you fill those with soil, or leave them empty?


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## myke (Dec 12, 2021)

Cut holes in every layer? Drain tile?

You mean drilled holes in every fold? Like small 1/4" holes?

Cool idea,since theres no way for air with only one tote.The overflow hole is the only air vent.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 12, 2021)

myke said:


> Cut holes in every layer? Drain tile?
> 
> You mean drilled holes in every fold? Like small 1/4" holes?
> 
> Cool idea,since theres no way for air with only one tote.The overflow hole is the only air vent.


Ok, does soil volume make a difference? The eb only has the overflow and filler tube. Should I be trying to get more air into the eb soil in your opinion?


----------



## myke (Dec 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Ok, does soil volume make a difference? The eb only has the overflow and filler tube. Should I be trying to get more air into the eb soil in your opinion?


IDK,never crossed my mind.Mine have a big air gap between the totes not sure what that does.Holes in the inntainer bottom is all I have.
Maybe all my air gap does is make water evaporate more?


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 12, 2021)

myke said:


> IDK,never crossed my mind.Mine have a big air gap between the totes not sure what that does.Holes in the inntainer bottom is all I have.
> Maybe all my air gap does is make water evaporate more?


I was led to believe the air gap was so roots could get oxygen. Maybe I should try an airstone in the res. It should add more do to the water, and hopefully into the soil?


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## myke (Dec 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I was led to believe the air gap was so roots could get oxygen. Maybe I should try an airstone in the res. It should add more do to the water, and hopefully into the soil?


If the bottom is all perforated the bubbles splashing up would be like dwc.Roots would continue to grow through.

Mine air prune at ea hole.


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## myke (Dec 12, 2021)

I assume Shiggys tube would have the same air pruned roots inside?


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 12, 2021)

myke said:


> If the bottom is all perforated the bubbles splashing up would be like dwc.Roots would continue to grow through.
> 
> Mine air prune at ea hole.
> View attachment 5045164


Yea, that may not be a good thing. I might have to have water in the res at all times then.

But then again, with air being pumped into the res, there would be no reason to let it go dry for a period. Am I thinking in the right direction?


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## Hairybuds (Dec 12, 2021)

Plants if given proper aeration through rice hulls perlite etc should be all it needs no? I don’t have any breather holes in my wick so roots are in water and plants look good


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## myke (Dec 12, 2021)

Hairybuds said:


> Plants if given proper aeration through rice hulls perlite etc should be all it needs no? I don’t have any breather holes in my wick so roots are in water and plants look good


Thats my thoughts,as long as the soil does not directly sit in water.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 12, 2021)

myke said:


> Thats my thoughts,as long as the soil does not directly sit in water.


I guess I'm just too high. Lol
If the sip already works, why fuck with it?


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## myke (Dec 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I guess I'm just too high. Lol
> If the sip already works, why fuck with it?


Air stone would keep the soil moist,like another wick.So say you had no wick the air stone splashing up would work but water level like dwc would need to be maintained.

Agreed ,feed the soil not the sip lol.


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## Shiggity (Dec 12, 2021)

I just wanted to provide oxygen to the wet soil. Aeration is good but I really think these air channels are keeping the soil oxygenated. When soil is wet it’s hard for oxygen to get through it. That why we are doing so many SIP grows with yellow leaves but no other deficiency at the same time. Nitrogen is offgassing because of lack of oxygen in the soil. Doesn’t matter if the resevoir is aerated. Gotta have oxygen in the soil to prevent denitrifying bacteria from acting.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 12, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> I just wanted to provide oxygen to the wet soil. Aeration is good but I really think these air channels are keeping the soil oxygenated. When soil is wet it’s hard for oxygen to get through it. That why we are doing so many SIP grows with yellow leaves but no other deficiency at the same time. Nitrogen is offgassing because of lack of oxygen in the soil. Doesn’t matter if the resevoir is aerated. Gotta have oxygen in the soil to prevent denitrifying bacteria from acting.


I'm not exactly sure how it works, if I add d.o. to the res water, that doesn't add more oxygen to the soil by wicking up oxygenated water?


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## GrassBurner (Dec 12, 2021)

What about this for a tea for my small sips? I picked up some Dr Earth Bone Meal and Blood meal on clearance this summer, haven't used them for anything, but they were $2 for 4lb bags. If I make a tea with Bone Meal and Langbeinite at regular strength, and use blood meal at half strength, I would get 9.5-15-22 NPK. I could give the 4 sips 1/4 gallon each @ weeks 3 and 6, Neptune's Harvest @ weeks 4 and 8, and Flowergirl tea weeks 2,5, and 7. Does the blood/bone/langbeinite tea sound too strong @ 1/4 gallon per 3 gallons of soil?


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## Shiggity (Dec 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I'm not exactly sure how it works, if I add d.o. to the res water, that doesn't add more oxygen to the soil by wicking up oxygenated water?


The oxygen at the bottom of the soil will help the bottom of the soil. But if the soil is wet it is hard to get oxygen exchange to the center of the SIP. That’s why I added the vertical channels. Now there is oxygen available to all levels of the soil. Each one is less than a gallon so it doesn’t affect soil volume that much. But it enables all levels of soil to have direct access. Remember the grow where you were having issues with yellowing? The leaves didn’t show any other deficiency. Just nitrogen. That mean nitrogen was off gassing as N2 and nitrous oxide N20. Nitrogen makes up 78% of our breathable air. It’s very volatile. If you had yellowing your soil didn’t have enough oxygen.
These channels are my contribution to the SIP a community.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 12, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> The oxygen at the bottom of the soil will help the bottom of the soil. But if the soil is wet it is hard to get oxygen exchange to the center of the SIP. That’s why I added the vertical channels. Now there is oxygen available to all levels of the soil. Each one is less than a gallon so it doesn’t affect soil volume that much. But it enables all levels of soil to have direct access. Remember the grow where you were having issues with yellowing? The leaves didn’t show any other deficiency. Just nitrogen. That mean nitrogen was off gassing as N2 and nitrous oxide N20. Nitrogen makes up 78% of our breathable air. It’s very volatile. If you had yellowing your soil didn’t have enough oxygen.
> These channels are my contribution to the SIP a community.


Ok, kinda makes sense now. When I noticed the yellowing, I tried Neptune's Harvest fish fertilizer.... it helped a lil, but I needed to use the soy aminos to stop the yellowing in its tracks. Even then, I still had to keep adding high N. I'll try the air channels after I diy a sip. I don't have a large volume of soil right now, and I don't want to subtract any more.


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## Shiggity (Dec 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Ok, kinda makes sense now. When I noticed the yellowing, I tried Neptune's Harvest fish fertilizer.... it helped a lil, but I needed to use the soy aminos to stop the yellowing in its tracks. Even then, I still had to keep adding high N. I'll try the air channels after I diy a sip. I don't have a large volume of soil right now, and I don't want to subtract any more.l


I would do a smaller volume air channel. Take 1.5” pvc and drill a ridiculous amount of 1/2” holes in it then Cover with landscape cloth


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 12, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> I would do a smaller volume air channel. Take 1.5” pvc and drill a ridiculous amount of 1/2” holes in it then Cover with landscape cloth


Hmmm.... now that's an idea. I might try that.


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## GrassBurner (Dec 12, 2021)

On my small sips, it looks like a 60/40 split of roots coming through the shelf as far as air pruned and going into the res. Have 1 air stone per container, with this pump claiming 1700gph of air. It does pump the hell out of air, but 1700gph through an 1/8" tube sounds a little far fetched


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 12, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> On my small sips, it looks like a 60/40 split of roots coming through the shelf as far as air pruned and going into the res. Have 1 air stone per container, with this pump claiming 1700gph of air. It does pump the hell out of air, but 1700gph through an 1/8" tube sounds a little far fetched
> View attachment 5045215
> 
> View attachment 5045234


I have one of those, and I agree. No way it moves that much air, but it does move a lot of air. Loud as hell too.


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## Shiggity (Dec 12, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> On my small sips, it looks like a 60/40 split of roots coming through the shelf as far as air pruned and going into the res. Have 1 air stone per container, with this pump claiming 1700gph of air. It does pump the hell out of air, but 1700gph through an 1/8" tube sounds a little far fetched
> View attachment 5045215
> 
> View attachment 5045234


I think your SIP having a small gallon volume would not need an air channel. Again we are not talking about root oxygen but soil oxygen. Your volume ensures that the oxygen can get to all areas.


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## GrassBurner (Dec 12, 2021)

Do roots pull oxygen into the soil? I've always wondered in these setups


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## Xsan (Dec 12, 2021)

anyone running 40 gallon bins, what brand are you using? I currently have whatever the lowes brand is but getting ready to order more bins and just curious if anyone has found one brand to be better than the other?


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## GrassBurner (Dec 12, 2021)

I like the rigidity of the Craftsman totes.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 12, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Do roots pull oxygen into the soil? I've always wondered in these setups


Good question.


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## Shiggity (Dec 12, 2021)

I don’t believe roots will pull oxygen. Mycorrhizae will aggregate soil and that helps with oxygenation but I don’t think it’s enough.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 12, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> I think your SIP having a small gallon volume would not need an air channel. Again we are not talking about root oxygen but soil oxygen. Your volume ensures that the oxygen can get to all areas.


With the earthbox, bas suggests when running no till, to let the res run dry before refilling. I normally have to let it get a lil drier than that cuz it usually happens when I'm at work. I believe that's when the soil gets oxygenated, in the eb. Does that sound feasible?


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 12, 2021)

Shiggity said:


> I don’t believe roots will pull oxygen. Mycorrhizae will aggregate soil and that helps with oxygenation but I don’t think it’s enough.


I think worms help aggregate too?


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## Bignutes (Dec 12, 2021)

I’m not having yellowing in my sips this go around, I did on previous runs but this run in the seventh week of flower it’s holding up well, I attribute it to fertilizing more often. Plants grow more vigoursly and thereby need a higher nutrient application imo which may explain the premature yellowing especially trying to go organic which is tougher to dial in. My wick only has holes in the bottom so it is always submerged in water.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 12, 2021)

Bignutes said:


> I’m not having yellowing in my sips this go around, I did on previous runs but this run in the seventh week of flower it’s holding up well, I attribute it to fertilizing more often. Plants grow more vigoursly and thereby need a higher nutrient application imo which may explain the premature yellowing especially trying to go organic which is tougher to dial in. My wick only has holes in the bottom so it is always submerged in water.


Looks good. What do you feed and what's the schedule now?


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## Bignutes (Dec 12, 2021)

I feed a 2-3-7 every 3-4 days. Could use more but I don’t want it contaminating much reservoir


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## weedstoner420 (Dec 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> With the earthbox, bas suggests when running no till, to let the res run dry before refilling. I normally have to let it get a lil drier than that cuz it usually happens when I'm at work. I believe that's when the soil gets oxygenated, in the eb. Does that sound feasible?


I'm using the Growbox, which is similar to Earthbox. I think the soil gets oxygen from below, like through the perforations in the tray that holds the soil. So the amount of air exposure is almost the same no matter how full the res is, it only changes at the wicks.

In doing no-till, do you worry about dead roots in the water after harvest? Do you add anything to the res to help break them down?


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 12, 2021)

weedstoner420 said:


> I'm using the Growbox, which is similar to Earthbox. I think the soil gets oxygen from below, like through the perforations in the tray that holds the soil. So the amount of air exposure is almost the same no matter how full the res is, it only changes at the wicks.
> 
> In doing no-till, do you worry about dead roots in the water after harvest? Do you add anything to the res to help break them down?


No, I believe vegan inputs in the res are ok, so I think the roots just break down and get consumed. I didn't keep the res watered the whole time the cover crop going. I've mostly just watered in from the top. I did started adding water to the res here and there recently though just to make sure it's moist for my transplant.


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## weedstoner420 (Dec 12, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> No, I believe vegan inputs in the res are ok, so I think the roots just break down and get consumed. I didn't keep the res watered the whole time the cover crop going. I've mostly just watered in from the top. I did started adding water to the res here and there recently though just to make sure it's moist for my transplant.


Nice, I gotta watch that build a soil series....


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## myke (Dec 13, 2021)

Heres a sip that was allowed to dry.


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## myke (Dec 13, 2021)

This was my tomato sip,plant was 15' tall in a 27g tote.I thought there would have been more roots.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 13, 2021)

myke said:


> This was my tomato sip,plant was 15' tall in a 27g tote.I thought there would have been more roots.View attachment 5045712


I would've thought so too.


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## GrassBurner (Dec 13, 2021)

Pretty interesting @myke, wonder if the soil was packed with roots?


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## GrassBurner (Dec 13, 2021)

Maybe you got one of those magic beans from Jack?


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## myke (Dec 13, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Pretty interesting @myke, wonder if the soil was packed with roots?


Dirt still in tote ,outside frozen,will add amendments in March for next yrs crop.

Just goes to show 27g of soil can support some trees,was going to try indoor just havent had the time.


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## Kayaganja (Dec 13, 2021)

I Got one of these cut it in half , , so it’s about 350ltrs , I call it lazy-man sip, am doing a no til , it hold’s 70ltrs of water ,


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## Kayaganja (Dec 13, 2021)

10day in flowering , this is the first grow in the Bin so , am growing some seeds I got from a hermie Gg from fastbuds and pineapple chunk from Barney, I spray teas once a week and once a week a gallon of rainwater sprayed just to keep biology in the top going, the whole mix is based on bokashi and Knf fermentations,


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## myke (Dec 13, 2021)

Kayaganja said:


> 10day in flowering , this is the first grow in the Bin so , am growing some seeds I got from a hermie Gg from fastbuds and pineapple chunk from Barney, I spray teas once a week and once a week a gallon of rainwater sprayed just to keep biology in the top going, the whole mix is based on bokashi and Knf fermentations,


Awesome ,the more I grow the more I Want a huge sip.


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## Xsan (Dec 13, 2021)

myke said:


> Dirt still in tote ,outside frozen,will add amendments in March for next yrs crop.
> 
> Just goes to show 27g of soil can support some trees,was going to try indoor just havent had the time.



first round in a sip currently plugging along and certainly my best looking plant but in veg so that should tell you something. I am currently in a 40 gallon tote. roughly 21 gallon of soil, by the end, prob a few gal of compost, and 7 gal res. reading some of the post on this thread and others, wondering if I would be better off going with a 30 gallon or so. basic setup, 4 in pipe with vermeculite floor covered in soil then compost. my test run will be done after i have the room setup but oh well, grand spectrum bins are cheap especially if it means less soil


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## Kayaganja (Dec 13, 2021)

myke said:


> Awesome ,the more I grow the more I Want a huge sip.


Tell me about , lol my first indoor grow with real grow lights and thing is about 18months ago , ( corona stay ) got me self an earth box after join RIU ,  
Less watering no PH


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## Kayaganja (Dec 13, 2021)

Bad boy ORGANICS, my mix since it’s a bin that’ll will run for years , I start it off with peat,EWC , clay pebbles, and a whole heap of animal feeds , in the bottom I have drainpipes covered with peat a old logs I got for the woods then next layer is peat mixed with pebbles and like 15g of bokashi for the bokashbin with alfalfa , then I pour my soil mix on that cover with black plastic for 14days temperature went up to 57c could see steaming when I took the cover of , to plant cover crop. I add some fertilizer kit for normal gardening, putting up some links for Europe growers , https://homeandgarden.agriton.co.uk/products/mest-best/, https://homeandgarden.agriton.co.uk/products/bokashi-starter/, am not going to start a grow diary, cause this is just a test run , if anyone has questions just shot, so far it’s been rainwater and teas , only added water twice in the reservoir since September 12


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## myke (Dec 14, 2021)

Hugel SIP, LOL. Awesome.


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## myke (Dec 14, 2021)

Xsan said:


> first round in a sip currently plugging along and certainly my best looking plant but in veg so that should tell you something. I am currently in a 40 gallon tote. roughly 21 gallon of soil, by the end, prob a few gal of compost, and 7 gal res. reading some of the post on this thread and others, wondering if I would be better off going with a 30 gallon or so. basic setup, 4 in pipe with vermeculite floor covered in soil then compost. my test run will be done after i have the room setup but oh well, grand spectrum bins are cheap especially if it means less soil


21 Gallons of soil should rock,show us a pic.


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## Xsan (Dec 14, 2021)

Here she is today. She looks small but I am trying main lining this round and is a completely new setup for me. First sip, first run with new light, and will be first harvested mainline. She has been topped 4 times so far, last one was last Thursday. She will get topped once more on the 23rd, then flipped to flower on Jan 6th. Useful blueberries and oranges


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## myke (Dec 14, 2021)

Xsan said:


> Here she is today. She looks small but I am trying main lining this round and is a completely new setup for me. First sip, first run with new light, and will be first harvested mainline. She has been topped 4 times so far, last one was last Thursday. She will get topped once more on the 23rd, then flipped to flower on Jan 6th. Useful blueberries and oranges
> View attachment 5046604


Nice job,right where you did your first top where the Y is.It gets fragile there when bending the plant.Its half the plant so just a word of caution.I usually wrap wire around as a brace. Nothing worse than halfway through flower and it snaps from just bending the tops.


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## GrassBurner (Dec 14, 2021)

Spread that girl out!! Airflow is gonna be crucial for big colas.


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## Xsan (Dec 14, 2021)

myke said:


> Nice job,right where you did your first top where the Y is.It gets fragile there when bending the plant.Its half the plant so just a word of caution.I usually wrap wire around as a brace. Nothing worse than halfway through flower and it snaps from just bending the tops.



Thank you! Like you said, this has been done by the sip. I was actually looking at the Y and reading about splits earlier today. I am going to wrap it either tonight or in the next few days. I tried to leave as much stem as I could when I topped but the spacing on this one was super short so there wasn't much of a stump left. She will also be getting a top dressing next week. kashi blend, craft blend, bus and cowoco. Hopefully that will get her through flower.


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## Xsan (Dec 14, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Spread that girl out!! Airflow is gonna be crucial for big colas.


I'm trying lol but still learning my ways with these girls and get antsy about pushing them too far while I am tieing them down. I do need to figure out what my support/ trellis is going to look like or how I want to do it because I am hoping she is going to need some support


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## Hairybuds (Dec 14, 2021)

Wire a wide tomato cage ring to the top of your sip, cut off the legs to make it shorter. Or I like to wire the branches apart once the stretch sets in using the lip of the tote. If you give it a decent amount of veg time (40-50 days) it’s makes for stronger stems, when I’ve flipped too early or less than 40 days the branches become whip like and flop over.


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## Hairybuds (Dec 14, 2021)

Xsan said:


> Here she is today. She looks small but I am trying main lining this round and is a completely new setup for me. First sip, first run with new light, and will be first harvested mainline. She has been topped 4 times so far, last one was last Thursday. She will get topped once more on the 23rd, then flipped to flower on Jan 6th. Useful blueberries and oranges


if you’ve topped four times you’ll have 16 colas, you won’t need to support your branches as much. I’d stop at four times otherwise you’ll end up with 32 colas and they’ll be small. Maybe that’s what you want??

nice setup!


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## myke (Dec 14, 2021)

Hairybuds said:


> if you’ve topped four times you’ll have 16 colas, you won’t need to support your branches as much. I’d stop at four times otherwise you’ll end up with 32 colas and they’ll be small. Maybe that’s what you want??
> 
> nice setup!


Yup, I top once and I end up with 120 colas lol.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 14, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I have an addiction  I've got a 2x4 cabinet, a 4x4 tent, a 2x2 tent, and a 2x3 cabinet.


5 x 10 spot I built, 4 x 3 ish and a 5 x 5 tent.. same addiction man!


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## myke (Dec 14, 2021)

myke said:


> Yup, I top once and I end up with 120 colas lol.


Flipping the light = amount of soil x watts. Ya u figure that out.


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## Xsan (Dec 14, 2021)

Well the wife and kids are gone so first I tried her down.

Then I tried her up


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## myke (Dec 14, 2021)

Sips are the fuel,just learn to keep the fire low so it lasts.


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## Xsan (Dec 14, 2021)

myke said:


> Sips are the fuel,just learn to keep the fire low so it lasts.


par meter is supposed to arrive tomorrow so i can try to keep that fire in line


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## myke (Dec 14, 2021)

Xsan said:


> View attachment 5046688
> Well the wife and kids are gone so first I tried her down.
> 
> Then I tried her up
> View attachment 5046690


sweet, you'll be glad you did that 8 weeks from now.


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## Xsan (Dec 14, 2021)

Hairybuds said:


> if you’ve topped four times you’ll have 16 colas, you won’t need to support your branches as much. I’d stop at four times otherwise you’ll end up with 32 colas and they’ll be small. Maybe that’s what you want??
> 
> nice setup!


I decided to go with 32 this round just because the schedule worked out. That and a fear of mold or broken branches. Depending on how this one shakes out I might try more or less next round. I am still new enough, I will be happy with a clean run and decent yield if I can pull it off.


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## Hairybuds (Dec 14, 2021)

myke said:


> Sips are the fuel,just learn to keep the fire low so it lasts.


well said, that’s the whole reason I went with synthetic nutes, they say you flip when you have 75% coverage but I find with a sip you flip at 50-60% or you run out of space


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## Hairybuds (Dec 14, 2021)

Xsan said:


> I decided to go with 32 this round just because the schedule worked out. That and a fear of mold or broken branches. Depending on how this one shakes out I might try more or less next round. I am still new enough, I will be happy with a clean run and decent yield if I can pull it off.


 Looking forward to your progress, nice manifold, looks really good so far!


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## Bignutes (Dec 14, 2021)

myke said:


> Yup, I top once and I end up with 120 colas lol.


I find that too, I really liked the manifold method but I found the TBH’s 4 way method is faster and combined with super cropping its pretty efficient


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## Kayaganja (Dec 19, 2021)

This grow is running kind of smooth, am getting bored, ladies just sipping their water ,me running out off my summer grow,  21days in flower


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## CWF (Dec 19, 2021)

Just got 2 earthboxes, so I'll be joining the club wit y'all in my small hobby/personal stash grow. Trying organic as well; starting a compost heap in the backyard with these dang leaves and kitchen veg trimmings, coffee grounds and such. Hope to start a worm bin as well, both for growing and fishing. I'll pop a seed or 2 once the first mix cooks a bit (BAS stuff with promix base). My last grow was 1 plant (a freebie fem seed, ETS headband x blueberry) in promix with maxibloom, turned out well and got me several jars of bud. Need to add a dehumidifier because humidity is my main issue so far.


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## Bignutes (Dec 19, 2021)

Sip made from rope handled tubs, grew like wildfire for tomatoes. 67 litre soil capacity and 20 litre water reservoir, would go 5 days between refills at peak plant growth. The blue recycling bin is to hold up the upper tub, it also has holes in it so water can flow into it. The lower tub have holes drilled just below the height of the blue recycling bin so reservoir can’t get overfilled. Tubs bought at Canadian Tire, can get at Home Depot or Home Hardware, blue recycling bin and kids sand bucket (green pail) bought at the dollar store. I have yet to try this setup indoors.
These tubs are 22” across so you can fit 4 of them nicely into a 4 x 4 area.


is 

Lower tub with recycler bin in it



upper tub with hole in it for kids sand pail, then put onto recycling bin/lower tub.




The rope handles make for good supports for 2x2’s going up and across so I can tie up tomato heavy vines


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## Bignutes (Dec 19, 2021)

Here is another version using upside down recycling bin in the bottom tote to support the upper tote. Used two wicks to maintain the proper wick to soil bed area ratio


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## GrassBurner (Dec 20, 2021)

I had to start feeding the big girl Aqua Flakes 2 days ago. Didn't seem like I could put enough liquid/dry organic nutrients in there fast enough. Gave her 3ml/gallon of A & B, and she drank that up in less than a day. Refilled the reservoir with plain water, gonna feed her again this evening. My buddy that's an experienced grower said feed her every other watering, so I'm gonna try that. Incredible how much better the plant looked the next day  I reckon I better order some more aqua flakes, the plants in the small sips don't stand a chance  
My guess is you need a soil container that's atleast the size of the canopy @ 10" deep to have enough nutrients available to feed a plant all the way through. I feel like I would need a 4x4 bed for this girl to have enough food. 


Plant in the 2x4 just got flipped to flower. I loaded her up with dry ammendments for flowering, but I'm sure I'll have to get her on the bottle as well at some point, hopefully later than the big plant. 



Cleaned up the gg4's in the small sips, took 4 clones off each plant. Let's see if I can keep up my perfect record and kill them all 





Ladybugs appear to be making more ladybugs. Warning 18+ only


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## GrassBurner (Dec 20, 2021)

Bignutes said:


> Here is another version using upside down recycling bin in the bottom tote to support the upper tote. Used two wicks to maintain the proper wick to soil bed area ratioView attachment 5050295View attachment 5050296View attachment 5050297


Nice job, I bet those work great!!


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## myke (Dec 20, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> I had to start feeding the big girl Aqua Flakes 2 days ago. Didn't seem like I could put enough liquid/dry organic nutrients in there fast enough. Gave her 3ml/gallon of A & B, and she drank that up in less than a day. Refilled the reservoir with plain water, gonna feed her again this evening. My buddy that's an experienced grower said feed her every other watering, so I'm gonna try that. Incredible how much better the plant looked the next day  I reckon I better order some more aqua flakes, the plants in the small sips don't stand a chance
> My guess is you need a soil container that's atleast the size of the canopy @ 10" deep to have enough nutrients available to feed a plant all the way through. I feel like I would need a 4x4 bed for this girl to have enough food.
> View attachment 5050516
> 
> ...


You put salt food in the res or top feed?


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## GrassBurner (Dec 20, 2021)

myke said:


> You put salt food in the res or top feed?


In the res. Ive done it a few times before on plants in flower, but never had to this early. Usually just a quick fix until nutrients in the soil were made available. When they're hungry, it's amazing how fast they drink up that salt water. Aqua Flakes says 5ml/gallon for soil, but I'm thinking that's for top watering into something like promix or a potting soil without a lot of nutrients. So I went with the dwc amount. I'll follow the 3ml/G recommendation for the next few weeks, then bump it down to 1.5 ml/G. I guess the plant can pick where it wants to pull nutrients, from the soil or from the res?


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## myke (Dec 20, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> In the res. Ive done it a few times before on plants in flower, but never had to this early. Usually just a quick fix until nutrients in the soil were made available. When they're hungry, it's amazing how fast they drink up that salt water. Aqua Flakes says 5ml/gallon for soil, but I'm thinking that's for top watering into something like promix or a potting soil without a lot of nutrients. So I went with the dwc amount. I'll follow the 3ml/G recommendation for the next few weeks, then bump it down to 1.5 ml/G. I guess the plant can pick where it wants to pull nutrients, from the soil or from the res?


Cool,was always under the impression that its not good to do that.I guess as long as its not too strong and it doesn't go dry the plant wicks it all up.

Edit; maybe its organic stuff that I was thinking?


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## GrassBurner (Dec 20, 2021)

You're probably right  I forgot to mention I do add Multi Zen to the res with the A & B. When I ran my dwc run, I used it in the res, and never had any root issues, im assuming it helped  
I thought about the soil getting too saturated with salts, but she's so hungry, im guessing she's gonna eat whatever I throw at her, as long as I don't go crazy.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 20, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> You're probably right  I forgot to mention I do add Multi Zen to the res with the A & B. When I ran my dwc run, I used it in the res, and never had any root issues, im assuming it helped
> I thought about the soil getting too saturated with salts, but she's so hungry, im guessing she's gonna eat whatever I throw at her, as long as I don't go crazy.


There's organic feed you can add to the res. Build a bloom has an npk of 2-10-5, growers secret nitrogen has an npk of 14-0-0. Both are water soluble.


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## myke (Dec 20, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> You're probably right  I forgot to mention I do add Multi Zen to the res with the A & B. When I ran my dwc run, I used it in the res, and never had any root issues, im assuming it helped
> I thought about the soil getting too saturated with salts, but she's so hungry, im guessing she's gonna eat whatever I throw at her, as long as I don't go crazy.


Well Ive been top feeding salts last 10 or so days about 800ml.I just filled the res 2gallon with about 1EC of hydro bloom food.Always like doing experiments,will see how she does.Thanks.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 20, 2021)

myke said:


> Well Ive been top feeding salts last 10 or so days about 800ml.I just filled the res 2gallon with about 1EC of hydro bloom food.Always like doing experiments,will see how she does.Thanks.


My buddy gave me a cut of slazer beam about a month ago, already in pretty much depleted soil. Now mind you, I've never been able to get salts and soil to work right, but just for the hell of it, I started giving it the Lucas formula, and it seems to be working pretty good. I just got to get the watering of it down now.


----------



## myke (Dec 20, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> My buddy gave me a cut of slazer beam about a month ago, already in pretty much depleted soil. Now mind you, I've never been able to get salts and soil to work right, but just for the hell of it, I started giving it the Lucas formula, and it seems to be working pretty good. I just got to get the watering of it down now.


Just feed to a good runoff low EC never straight water,dont let it get real dry and youll be good.Just like coco only takes a little longer between feeds.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 20, 2021)

myke said:


> Just feed to a good runoff low EC never straight water,dont let it get real dry and youll be good.Just like coco only takes a little longer between feeds.


As far as the low ec goes, I'm doing Lucas full strength, and I'm not seeing any to burn. 
So I shouldn't do straight water every other?
She's in a solo cup right now, and I give her about 100ml of solution every other day and 50ml of plain the other days. I get a good runoff with that, and if I go much longer she starts to wilt.


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## myke (Dec 20, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> As far as the low ec goes, I'm doing Lucas full strength, and I'm not seeing any to burn.
> So I shouldn't do straight water every other?
> She's in a solo cup right now, and I give her about 100ml of solution every other day and 50ml of plain the other days. I get a good runoff with that, and if I go much longer she starts to wilt.


Ya if your in a small pot just feed to runoff. Easy to do in solo cup. It’s when you put a small plant in a big pot then you can’t feed to runoff.
Just makes it simpler if you just feed every time to runoff. You can lower EC just add a little more water after you mixed your Lucas.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 20, 2021)

myke said:


> Ya if your in a small pot just feed to runoff. Easy to do in solo cup. It’s when you put a small plant in a big pot then you can’t feed to runoff.
> Just makes it simpler if you just feed every time to runoff. You can lower EC just add a little more water after you mixed your Lucas.


Ok, but what's your thoughts on lowering ec? Is it because at full strength, I'll get a buildup if I water in everyday? You have a good idea of what ec I should start with? I'm at about 2.0 right now.


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## myke (Dec 20, 2021)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Ok, but what's your thoughts on lowering ec? Is it because at full strength, I'll get a buildup if I water in everyday? You have a good idea of what ec I should start with? I'm at about 2.0 right now.


I would be at about 1 EC and then feed every two days if it gets noticeably lighter.


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## myke (Dec 20, 2021)

Either or is ok. Water feed water etc. solo cup so hard to fuck up. It’s when your in a bigger pot that people mess up they don’t feed to runoff then they let it get too dry then only give it a little water. You’ll be transplant soon no?


----------



## myke (Dec 20, 2021)

myke said:


> I would be at about 1 EC and then feed every two days if it gets noticeably lighter.


Ea strain different but in a solo cup 1 EC should be plenty.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 20, 2021)

myke said:


> Either or is ok. Water feed water etc. solo cup so hard to fuck up. It’s when your in a bigger pot that people mess up they don’t feed to runoff then they let it get too dry then only give it a little water. You’ll be transplant soon no?


Yea, but I believe I might only go up to 1 gallon. I'm gonna keep it for a bonsai mom, so I just want it nutritionally healthy for now.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 20, 2021)

myke said:


> Ea strain different but in a solo cup 1 EC should be plenty.


I'll dilute my solution tonight and see what happens. Thanks bro.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 20, 2021)

myke said:


> I would be at about 1 EC and then feed every two days if it gets noticeably lighter.


It was lighter, before I started feeding, I wasn't sure what direction I wanted to go with it. It looked bad. Yellowing leaves, purple main stem. Now the leaves have stopped yellowing, and new green growth. Still has purple main stem though, but the leaves look good.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 23, 2021)

7 weeks flower. Water only grow


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## myke (Dec 23, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> 7 weeks flower. Water only growView attachment 5052345


Looks good. Dark green leaves even some burnt tips. I’ve only had burnt tips once I think it was the strain as none of my others ever burn.


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## GrassBurner (Dec 23, 2021)

Tim Fox said:


> 7 weeks flower. Water only growView attachment 5052345


What size container, and what is the footprint of your canopy there? Looks like you've found a great combination, plants look super happy!!


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## weedstoner420 (Dec 23, 2021)

Mid week 8 in the growboxes. Got some clover popping up in the back on this one:


Crnklz looks like she'll be glad when it's over...I can probably fit one more run in before May/June, when it gets too dank to flower in the basement. I'm thinking of popping another clone into the same Growbox, no added amendments, and train it low/far from the light, and see what happens.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 23, 2021)

I am using a growbox sip, same.size as an earthbox holds 1.5 cubic feet of soil, I am growing in a converted wardrobe that 40 inch wide and 28 inch deep and 6 1/2 feet tall, I use a big mix of different dry amendments in fox farms soil and water only the whole ride


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## Bignutes (Dec 23, 2021)

Day 54 of flower, sipping much less now


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## hot_box_enthusiast (Dec 23, 2021)

*Help with Earthboxes and Fungus Gnats Please*
My first Earthbox run was a great success. I ran 3 earthboxes with a 12 week strain, and made it to finish with no issues. No bugs, no deficiencies. I posted pics on this thread a few times.

I now started a bigger run, and mixed 10 new boxes. Plants are about 12-18" tall and still in veg. I notice some Fungus Gnats around and sure enough the sticky traps only took one overnight to collect many specimens.

My earthboxes have DIY organic living soil. No mulch layer.

Earlier this week, I did a spray of N Force Foliar (https://nforcebiotech.com ; cinnamon oil, tea tree oil). Then 24 hours later per their instructions I did a rinse with water. I am to repeat tomorrow (twice per week total). The gnats came flying when I applied it... but if I just rinse off a day later, I don't see how it will stop them propagating in the soil? Its like you treat then rinse twice a week so how is that to help? By the way my soil mix has some neem meal in it.

Purchased today ; more sticky traps, diatomaceous earth, and "pot poppers" which are Nematodes. (NemaGlobe Pot Poppers).

My understanding is the problem with using DE in a SIP is that then you can't top dress... or rather when you top dress you have to remove all the DE first. Do I have that right? Since these earthboxes were just mixed, maybe a good course of action would be to cover with DE for a couple weeks until flip to flower and first top dress?

How should I use the nematodes in light of the DE? Can they work together? Show me the way please


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## myke (Dec 23, 2021)

Never had luck with nematodes myself. DE doesn’t work when the top soil is wet and mine are always wet. Covered. If you catch it early enough maybe you’ll have luck. Myself I’ve just started covering everything with sand. Can still top water through it but a pain to move away to add food. Good luck, stay on it you’ll get them.


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## JimmyJackCorn (Dec 23, 2021)

Last time I had a runaway gnat issue, I used Mosquito Bits (BTi), following the instructions on the bag about leaching the bacteria off the pellets with water first. Then I top-dressed with some homemade EWC to fortify the hypoapsis miles population. Over the course of about five days, the gnat population fell back into my IPM parameters. That was in a 15g living soil pot filled with a custom, mulched soil.


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## Xsan (Dec 23, 2021)

JimmyJackCorn said:


> Last time I had a runaway gnat issue, I used Mosquito Bits (BTi), following the instructions on the bag about leaching the bacteria off the pellets with water first. Then I top-dressed with some homemade EWC to fortify the hypoapsis miles population. Over the course of about five days, the gnat population fell back into my IPM parameters. That was in a 15g living soil pot filled with a custom, mulched soil.



agreed, i through some bits on top during an outbreak and it seemed to subside shortly after


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## 2com (Dec 24, 2021)

hot_box_enthusiast said:


> *Help with Earthboxes and Fungus Gnats Please*
> My first Earthbox run was a great success. I ran 3 earthboxes with a 12 week strain, and made it to finish with no issues. No bugs, no deficiencies. I posted pics on this thread a few times.
> 
> I now started a bigger run, and mixed 10 new boxes. Plants are about 12-18" tall and still in veg. I notice some Fungus Gnats around and sure enough the sticky traps only took one overnight to collect many specimens.
> ...







__





Fungus Gnats


Yellow sticky tapes, and, fresh good quality duct tape, or the stickyest tape, maybe tuck tape red. Roll a bunch of that and place it over the medium, over the whole hole. Pointing up and down. It will be covered in no time. You can also change your air exhaust hose ls around, and suck the...



www.rollitup.org


----------



## GrassBurner (Dec 25, 2021)

@myke you ever water in your dry ammendments with humic acid? Doesn't it speed up the breakdown and availability of nutrients? I've got some fulpower, curious what you think.


----------



## myke (Dec 25, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> @myke you ever water in your dry ammendments with humic acid? Doesn't it speed up the breakdown and availability of nutrients? I've got some fulpower, curious what you think.


I’m not up on humic/fulvic acids. I think it’s fulvic that’s does that? Not sure.if ya find info please share. Merry Christmas.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 25, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> @myke you ever water in your dry ammendments with humic acid? Doesn't it speed up the breakdown and availability of nutrients? I've got some fulpower, curious what you think.


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 25, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> @myke you ever water in your dry ammendments with humic acid? Doesn't it speed up the breakdown and availability of nutrients? I've got some fulpower, curious what you think.


I use humics often. It helps with making nutes, in the soil, more available.


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## GrassBurner (Dec 25, 2021)

Quick search shows this "Fulvic acid is a humate which is the result after decomposition of organic matter such as trees and plants. Fulvic acid speeds up nutrient uptake by solubilising minerals such as *Iron(Fe), Silica(Si), Potassium(K) & Calcium(Ca)*." I'm gonna skip the salts these next couple waterings, and lightly top water in some of my Ful-Power.


----------



## myinvisiblecomplication (Dec 26, 2021)

GrassBurner said:


> Flipping these girls tonight. Fed them some liquid fertilizer 2 days ago, top dressing them with 3tbsp flowergirl and a cup of ewc tonight. Got another bottle of Neptune's Harvest on the way.
> View attachment 5040862
> 
> Dracarys in the 4x4 is filling out the net, it's been flipped to flower as well. She's been chugging water. Did a lot of weaving in the net tonight.


Do you have a build log for theose square tubs. they would fit muchbetter int he tent than my one big huge SIP


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## GrassBurner (Dec 26, 2021)

@myinvisiblecomplication There is a post on pages 200, and 203, but the bulk of it is on 204  Here is the link to where I got the containersDIY Containers Send me a message if you have any questions


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## GrassBurner (Dec 26, 2021)

Ninja Turtle girls are streeeetching  Had to redo the hangers tonight to lift the light another 6". Top dressed a couple tbsp of Flower Girl, then watered that in with some humic acid and a little bit of the liquid Dr Earth fertilizer.


----------



## myke (Dec 31, 2021)

Happy new year fellow sippers , hope all is good.


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## Nugnewbie (Dec 31, 2021)

Yes, happy New Year myke, and everybody else as well.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 31, 2021)

Happy new year


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## Kayaganja (Dec 31, 2021)

Happy New Year to you too sippers ‍‍


----------



## Kayaganja (Jan 1, 2022)

35days in flowering earhbox, sip and organic soil , you end up with no Work lol


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 6, 2022)

Gah week 7 spider mites again...blasted them with a strong dose of Dr's right before lights out. Will continue as long as I see them..so once you have these fuckers ....do they just stay forever? Gah


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## Xsan (Jan 6, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Gah week 7 spider mites again...blasted them with a strong dose of Dr's right before lights out. Will continue as long as I see them..so once you have these fuckers ....do they just stay forever? Gah


That sucks! I hate those monsters! The eradication methods I have read are extreme. Fire,trash can, bleach, seems to be the order of effectiveness. Good luck, keep me posted on the Dr.s effectiveness. I have a bottle in the room in case I get a war notice


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## CrunchBerries (Jan 6, 2022)

Xsan said:


> That sucks! I hate those monsters! The eradication methods I have read are extreme. Fire,trash can, bleach, seems to be the order of effectiveness. Good luck, keep me posted on the Dr.s effectiveness. I have a bottle in the room in case I get a war notice


I had them recently and rotated bi weekly with Capt jacks dead bug brew and a diy organic IPM for a couple months till you don’t see bugs. Then only organic IPM weekly during veg till about week 2 of flower. Here is a link that was shared with me for the IPM recipe: https://overgrow.com/t/bodhi-testers-summer-2020-passionfruit-hasplant-lush-x-88g13-hp/30535/57


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## Hairybuds (Jan 6, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Gah week 7 spider mites again...blasted them with a strong dose of Dr's right before lights out. Will continue as long as I see them..so once you have these fuckers ....do they just stay forever? Gah



Curcumeris mites or the like work


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## myke (Jan 6, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Gah week 7 spider mites again...blasted them with a strong dose of Dr's right before lights out. Will continue as long as I see them..so once you have these fuckers ....do they just stay forever? Gah


Sucks man,good reminder for the rest of us to keep up with IPM in veg.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 6, 2022)

Hairybuds said:


> Curcumeris mites or the like work


I tried ordering some beneficials one time a while back.. and felt like an idiot when nothing at all came out of the packages lol it was from ebay though so who knows, maybe i just need somewhere more reputable.


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## CrunchBerries (Jan 7, 2022)

I need to start posting over here more with my fellow sippers. Here is my current project in 15 gal earth box probiotic sips. Bodhi Sunshine Queen and Orange Wookie x 88g13HP. 57F Be well y’all~ Crunch


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## Xsan (Jan 7, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> I need to start posting over here more with my fellow sippers. Here is my current project in 15 gal earth box probiotic sips. Bodhi Sunshine Queen and Orange Wookie x 88g13HP. 57F Be well y’all~ CrunchView attachment 5062077View attachment 5062078View attachment 5062079View attachment 5062080View attachment 5062081


Looking good!


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## GrassBurner (Jan 7, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Gah week 7 spider mites again...blasted them with a strong dose of Dr's right before lights out. Will continue as long as I see them..so once you have these fuckers ....do they just stay forever? Gah


Man I don't get it  My big plant in the 4x4 is getting eaten alive. They have to live in the soil. I have bleached, shop vac'd, and sprayed everything on earth in that tent. Left it unoccupied for weeks. Even spent $100 on beneficials about a month ago, yet here we are, I swear worse than ever. I'm trashing all my old soil and starting new. Gonna make the soil while it's sub freezing temps, then bring into the house to warm up.


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## Hairybuds (Jan 7, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I tried ordering some beneficials one time a while back.. and felt like an idiot when nothing at all came out of the packages lol it was from ebay though so who knows, maybe i just need somewhere more reputable.


That sucks! As soon as I bought it they started coming out in the sealed garbage bag but they ended up not reproducing because I kept the humidity too low in flower
I will say they worked to stave them off for a while


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 7, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> I need to start posting over here more with my fellow sippers. Here is my current project in 15 gal earth box probiotic sips. Bodhi Sunshine Queen and Orange Wookie x 88g13HP. 57F Be well y’all~ CrunchView attachment 5062077View attachment 5062078View attachment 5062079View attachment 5062080View attachment 5062081


Gorgeous! I'm a bodhi sip head also!!!! Had to stop buying packs until I can crack some of the 30 odd strains I have hoarded lol


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## CrunchBerries (Jan 7, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Gorgeous! I'm a bodhi sip head also!!!! Had to stop buying packs until I can crack some of the 30 odd strains I have hoarded lol


Thanks brother. Sounds like we are in the same seed boat. I stayed strong during the Medicine Mountain Sativa drop. I did just see though, where there is a new Bodhi drop happening soon at GLG. Here we go again. I’m setting up a new 5x5, so that is taking priority at the moment.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 7, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Thanks brother. Sounds like we are in the same seed boat. I stayed strong during the Medicine Mountain Sativa drop. I did just see though, where there is a new Bodhi drop happening soon at GLG. Here we go again. I’m setting up a new 5x5, so that is taking priority at the moment.


Oooh new bodhi drop again... I'll have to get my browser refresh button and lucky horseshoe ready!


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## CrunchBerries (Jan 7, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Oooh new bodhi drop again... I'll have to get my browser refresh button and lucky horseshoe ready!


Right! Stretch your thumb out!


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## Xsan (Jan 7, 2022)

She got to sleep in for the first time last night


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 7, 2022)

Round 2. 2nd cycle, 1st no till. I put her in the earthbox 2 weeks ago from solo cup. I added water to the res a week after. She was pretty small at transplant, and believe it or not, she's gotten much bigger, pretty damn fast, but I'm probably still going to have to veg for at least a few more weeks to fill that screen. She's a fast growing, lanky strain, so I'm hoping she'll fill it faster. So far the no till is working good. I haven't had any problems, except something munching on a couple leaves, that I'm currently addressing with Dr. Zymes.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 11, 2022)

First winter grow is in jars, let's run it again, got two clones yesterday from the state legal store , 30 dollars each , Runtz and lightsaber


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## Tim Fox (Jan 12, 2022)

First time I have ever re used soil, I dumped the soil from the sipinto the wheelbarrow and re amended with dry things like bat shit and worm castings some macos some tomato fert and a few other things , another water only grow, so it's Runtz on the left and lightsaber on the right


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 12, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> First time I have ever re used soil, I dumped the soil from the sipinto the wheelbarrow and re amended with dry things like bat shit and worm castings some macos some tomato fert and a few other things , another water only grow, so it's Runtz on the left and lightsaber on the right View attachment 5065676View attachment 5065677View attachment 5065678


You don't even have to do that much work. Just grow a cover crop next time and you don't need to dump the soil out.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 12, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> You don't even have to do that much work. Just grow a cover crop next time and you don't need to dump the soil out.


im super lazy hahah, I gravitate towards easy,, and this is about the most simple , least work and effort way i have found for me,, once its going i do almost nothing for weeks at a time,,


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 12, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> im super lazy hahah, I gravitate towards easy,, and this is about the most simple , least work and effort way i have found for me,, once its going i do almost nothing for weeks at a time,,


Honestly, I feel like it's easier to just throw in some seeds and let them grow. Then chop it all and transplant into it. That's just my opinion though. What I consider easy others may not.


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## GrassBurner (Jan 12, 2022)

I've been doing the reammending as well. Can't seem to get the cover crop to grow as fast as the plants  I wish it would work. You must have some magic soil, no way chopped up cover crop would feed these girls through flower. 
I am replacing my soil these next rotations, only place I can figure spider mites are hanging around.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 12, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> I've been doing the reammending as well. Can't seem to get the cover crop to grow as fast as the plants  I wish it would work. You must have some magic soil, no way chopped up cover crop would feed these girls through flower.
> I am replacing my soil these next rotations, only place I can figure spider mites are hanging around.


In the earthbox, after chop, I plant the cover crop seeds right away and grow them out a few weeks or so. 




Then I chop it, transplant, and add about a half a cup of craft blend, a couple cups of ewc, and some kashi. It takes a lil time for the cover crop to grow, so it's not for everybody, but for me it's easier than mixing soil and amendments. I'm in a condo so it's not that easy for me to mix.


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## GrassBurner (Jan 12, 2022)

I can understand that!! If I didn't live in the woods, I wouldn't be able to mix so freely.


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## Nugnewbie (Jan 12, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> You don't even have to do that much work. Just grow a cover crop next time and you don't need to dump the soil out.





Tim Fox said:


> im super lazy hahah, I gravitate towards easy,, and this is about the most simple , least work and effort way i have found for me,, once its going i do almost nothing for weeks at a time,,


I am planning to transplant into the SIPS I am running right now, without dumping the soil, just going to chop, then transplant clones into them, and topdress some 4-4-4 in. Is this a good plan? Also in a situation where mixing soil isn't the easiest.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 12, 2022)

Nugnewbie said:


> I am planning to transplant into the SIPS I am running right now, without dumping the soil, just going to chop, then transplant clones into them, and topdress some 4-4-4 in. Is this a good plan? Also in a situation where mixing soil isn't the easiest.


Depends on how depleted your soil was. It's gonna take a lil while for some of that top dress to break down.


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## Nugnewbie (Jan 12, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Depends on how depleted your soil was. It's gonna take a lil while for some of that top dress to break down.


My plants in this soil are very close to harvest. I've stopped giving fertilizer and so the soil may be fairly depleted by the time i chop. I should have almost 2 weeks after chop for drying, and so the day of chop I would top dress and water in some 4-4-4. Would that be enough time for the top dress to break down? (Grow tent is drying chamber also)


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 12, 2022)

Nugnewbie said:


> My plants in this soil are very close to harvest. I've stopped giving fertilizer and so the soil may be fairly depleted by the time i chop. I should have almost 2 weeks after chop for drying, and so the day of chop I would top dress and water in some 4-4-4. Would that be enough time for the top dress to break down? (Grow tent is drying chamber also)


Some of it, sure. What are your drying variables? You want warm, moist temps to accelerate decomposition.


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## Nugnewbie (Jan 12, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Some of it, sure. What are your drying variables? You want warm, moist temps to accelerate decomposition.


This will be my very first crop. Just wanna toss that out there so you realize I don't have a great deal of experience growing. Love this forum for all of the information and ideas and the people willing to share them. So, anyway yeah, from what I had read and youtubed was going to attempt to keep temperature low (60 °-ish), and humidity around 60%. But, my SIPS will be in the same space. So, I guess that would slow decomposition.


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## myke (Jan 12, 2022)

I’m thinking my dirt is spent. This gal has used it all up. Its going to sit for 2 months and get recharged.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 12, 2022)

myke said:


> I’m thinking my dirt is spent. This gal has used it all up. Its going to sit for 2 months and get recharged. View attachment 5065859


I figured mine was too but the cover crop grew in pretty green. Iirc I added a cup or two of gnarley barley a few weeks in though.


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## Nugnewbie (Jan 12, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Depends on how depleted your soil was. It's gonna take a lil while for some of that top dress to break down.


Here are the plants as of last night. Day 62 of flower and I am just putting plain water in the reservoir since last top dress of 50/50 4-4-4,2-8-4. Strain is supposed to be a 60 day strain, but whatever right. It has been brutally cold here in my part of Canada so my lights off temps dipped around 64 °F, many nights in succession, so maybe slowed growth a bit. The trichomes are mostly cloudy, haven't seen any amber. Can you tell by looking at my plants how depleted my soil may be?


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## myke (Jan 12, 2022)

I’ve been down to 61-62 a few nights here too


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## Nugnewbie (Jan 12, 2022)

myke said:


> I’ve been down to 61-62 a few nights here too


Yes, weather finally broke and enjoying above zero temperatures. 

Have you ever chopped a plant in a SIP, then transplanted a clone right beside the stump and carried on?


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 12, 2022)

Nugnewbie said:


> Here are the plants as of last night. Day 62 of flower and I am just putting plain water in the reservoir since last top dress of 50/50 4-4-4,2-8-4. Strain is supposed to be a 60 day strain, but whatever right. It has been brutally cold here in my part of Canada so my lights off temps dipped around 64 °F, many nights in succession, so maybe slowed growth a bit. The trichomes are mostly cloudy, haven't seen any amber. Can you tell by looking at my plants how depleted my soil may be?View attachment 5065866View attachment 5065867View attachment 5065869


Looks really good. Congrats. 

It's hard to say. Your plants could have slowed down eating.


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## myke (Jan 12, 2022)

Nugnewbie said:


> Yes, weather finally broke and enjoying above zero temperatures.
> 
> Have you ever chopped a plant in a SIP, then transplanted a clone right beside the stump and carried on?


No,the pic I showed was transplant into a 50/50 mix of used(run prior ) and promix mixed with gaia.Fast grower so I could see issues 2 weeks after.I grow big plants so it gets used up even with an aggressive top dress schedule.

I rotate my soil, I have a place in my garage to store it.Im just about ready for no till but dont want to give up the sips.
This turn i'll run a few bigger sips and try the no till thing.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 12, 2022)

myke said:


> No,the pic I showed was transplant into a 50/50 mix of used(run prior ) and promix mixed with gaia.Fast grower so I could see issues 2 weeks after.I grow big plants so it gets used up even with an aggressive top dress schedule.
> 
> I rotate my soil, I have a place in my garage to store it.Im just about ready for no till but dont want to give up the sips.
> This turn i'll run a few bigger sips and try the no till thing.


I think you would do great with no till. You already know the basics, and it's been really simple.


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## Nugnewbie (Jan 12, 2022)

Thanks man. I appreciate the compliment. Pretty sure these SIPS are in my case mostly responsible for it. 


Hollatchaboy said:


> Looks really good. Congrats.
> 
> It's hard to say. Your plants could have slowed down eating.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 12, 2022)

Nugnewbie said:


> Thanks man. I appreciate the compliment. Pretty sure these SIPS are in my case mostly responsible for it.


Agreed. The sips make it really easy to grow. I might try reammending my soil next time. Depending on how this run go's. I wanna see the roots this time. Lol


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## Nugnewbie (Jan 12, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Agreed. The sips make it really easy to grow. I might try reammending my soil next time. Depending on how this run go's. I wanna see the roots this time. Lol


Yes, that would be something I'd be unable to do until I actually do swap the soil out after one more run in it. I want to see the roots too, but will wait.


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## Xsan (Jan 12, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Agreed. The sips make it really easy to grow. I might try reammending my soil next time. Depending on how this run go's. I wanna see the roots this time. Lol


Are you planning on sending soil samples out and if so have you decided who to?


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## GrassBurner (Jan 14, 2022)

Well this got out of hand  All work and no gardening puts Grassburner in the weeds  Do to terrible planning on my part, ive got about 20 minutes at best after I get home to mess with these fools. Did a quick supercropping, and these bastards made knuckles and straightened right back up. Gotta do something this weekend.


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## GrassBurner (Jan 14, 2022)

2x4 Tent is turning into a jungle as well. But it's not nearly as out of control. Gotta feed this girl asap


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 15, 2022)

Ok, so I'm seeing movement in my res. I'm guessing it's a worm. Anyone have experience with a worm in the res?


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## GrassBurner (Jan 15, 2022)

I had hundreds of worms in my res before I started putting landscaping fabric over the shelf. They still get in there through the soil wicks in the corners, but there doesn't seem to be as many. They make a lot of black gold down there


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 15, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> I had hundreds of worms in my res before I started putting landscaping fabric over the shelf. They still get in there through the soil wicks in the corners, but there doesn't seem to be as many. They make a lot of black gold down there


Don't they die and rot in the res?


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## Tim Fox (Jan 15, 2022)

I've never had a worm in my res , that's a new one on me


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## GrassBurner (Jan 15, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Don't they die and rot in the res?


I don't think I found a single dead one. Google says "*Earthworms are unable to drown like a human would*, and they can even survive several days fully submerged in water. Soil experts now think earthworms surface during rain storms for migration purposes"


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 15, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> I've never had a worm in my res , that's a new one on me


Seems almost inevitable. I wonder if landscape fabric in the wicks would work?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 15, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> I don't think I found a single dead one. Google says "*Earthworms are unable to drown like a human would*, and they can even survive several days fully submerged in water. Soil experts now think earthworms surface during rain storms for migration purposes"


I let my res run dry before refilling, so I guess they could always go back in thru the wicks if they needed to.


----------



## myke (Jan 15, 2022)

Put up a sign "vaccinated worms only" maybe they'll leave?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 15, 2022)

myke said:


> Put up a sign "vaccinated worms only" maybe they'll leave?


I guess it wouldn't hurt to try. Lol


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 15, 2022)

myke said:


> Put up a sign "vaccinated worms only" maybe they'll leave?


If I start a vaccination mandate, I won't have enough to work my soil. Damn viruses. Lol


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 15, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Seems almost inevitable. I wonder if landscape fabric in the wicks would work?


Won't the land scape fabric block the water roots from entering the res? I prefer the hydroponic effect if having roots in the air gap and res


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 15, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> Won't the land scape fabric block the water roots from entering the res? I prefer the hydroponic effect if having roots in the air gap and res


Damn yea it would. Maybe nylon screen then?


----------



## weedstoner420 (Jan 15, 2022)

I've been using window screen on the tray in mine. It seemed like a decent compromise, and I still get some water roots growing through the wicks.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 15, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> I've been using window screen on the tray in mine. It seemed like a decent compromise, and I still get some water roots growing through the wicks.


As stated, they can still get in thru the wicks though. I'm thinking lining the wicks with screen too?


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## myke (Jan 15, 2022)

Wiggler worms are the good ones arnt they? They stay near the surface I thought.

Do you have earthworms in the sip? Or have you identified the worm?


----------



## weedstoner420 (Jan 15, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> As stated, they can still get in thru the wicks though. I'm thinking lining the wicks with screen too?


Duh, I forgot we were talking about worms. I suppose it would at least stop the big ones, not sure if roots would be able to grow through it tho...

I'm not sure I've ever had worms in my res, maybe a few here and there but the main reason I did the screen was to keep dirt from falling through the tray.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 15, 2022)

myke said:


> Wiggler worms are the good ones arnt they? They stay near the surface I thought.
> 
> Do you have earthworms in the sip? Or have you identified the worm?


I only have wigglers. I dunno exactly what it is. I looked down the fill tube to see if it was empty, and I could see the water surface was moving. I can't imagine what else could cause that. I thought maybe some kind of gurgling, but it didn't really look like that.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 15, 2022)

I guess this decides what I do after this run. I gotta see what the res looks like. Lol


----------



## GrassBurner (Jan 15, 2022)

Roots will cruise right through landscape fabric  I bought the cheapest of the fabrics on purpose, it looks/feels almost like fiberglass mat. The more expensive fabric you get, the tighter the weave.


----------



## myke (Jan 15, 2022)

A little update with my gal that I fed salt food too. Just before Christmas I noticed some rust spots and the lighter green colour. I gave the first dose on top about 400 ppm. A few days later thought what the hell let’s put some in the res. Around 600 ppm. The rust spots seamed to stop and got a little tip burn. I did one more feed in the res a week later so that’s around Dec 28 ish. Here she is now ,leaves have dried and curled up a bit. Fall colours are getting dominant. She’s at day 62. I think I fed one too many times lol.


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## Hairybuds (Jan 15, 2022)

How did your rez smell after putting nutes in? You fill it every few days? I tried LAB in the rez and it gets funky


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## Hairybuds (Jan 15, 2022)

My soil is a ph of 7, tap water ph of 7.7. I’m currently using ph down to get the reservoir around 6.2. Am I wasting my time using ph down?


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## myke (Jan 15, 2022)

Hairybuds said:


> My soil is a ph of 7, tap water ph of 7.7. I’m currently using ph down to get the reservoir around 6.2. Am I wasting my time using ph down?


What kind of ph down are you using? I run similar and noticing now my ph is rising after a few runs.


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## Hairybuds (Jan 15, 2022)

Phosphoric acid. What is yours starting from and then drifting to?


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## myke (Jan 15, 2022)

Hairybuds said:


> Phosphoric acid. What is yours starting from and then drifting to?


My tap is 7.2 ish,Ive gone 3 runs and never worried about it.Now because my water and all the top dressing its climbing.I only have drops now, my ph pen is dead.Its fairly green so around 7 is my guess.
Ill be adding some plain peat and home made EWC for the next run to hopefully balance it out.


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## myke (Jan 15, 2022)

Hairybuds said:


> How did your rez smell after putting nutes in? You fill it every few days? I tried LAB in the rez and it gets funky


Didn't affect smell.


----------



## weedstoner420 (Jan 17, 2022)

Chopped one of the plants in the growboxes. You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like...  

Despite looking like shit, she did not lose a single leaf, which is a personal best for me 
Her twin is still ripening up in the back for a bit. The dense and chaotic bud structure of this pheno makes it susceptible to mold, so I probably won't let it go too much longer.

Here's the other box. This one turns a real dark purple throughout at the end

Happy SIPing y'all!


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 18, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Chopped one of the plants in the growboxes. You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like...
> View attachment 5068544
> Despite looking like shit, she did not lose a single leaf, which is a personal best for me
> Her twin is still ripening up in the back for a bit. The dense and chaotic bud structure of this pheno makes it susceptible to mold, so I probably won't let it go too much longer.
> ...


Looking good , should smoke well


----------



## Bignutes (Jan 19, 2022)

I talked with Thomas from High Alpine Genetics, he makes columns of fertilizer on the outside of the pot. He waters only through the grow. He uses a cup of biolive per 5 gal of soil. His columns of fertilizer get past a problem in using sips. Top dressing requires top watering if the top dries out to activate the fertilizer. And in my case I use sand to cap the soil to eliminate fungus knats so it’s almost always dry. By the fertilizer being vertical in the soil column it’s always moist and available. That’s brilliant. Thanks Thomas!


----------



## myke (Jan 19, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> I talked with Thomas from High Alpine Genetics, he makes columns of fertilizer on the outside of the pot. He waters only through the grow. He uses a cup of biolive per 5 gal of soil. His columns of fertilizer get past a problem in using sips. Top dressing requires top watering if the top dries out to activate the fertilizer. And in my case I use sand to cap the soil to eliminate fungus knats so it’s almost always dry. By the fertilizer being vertical in the soil column it’s always moist and available. That’s brilliant. Thanks Thomas!


I did something like that last run. I had ran out of cooked soil so I just added some Gaia to promix. Then added a layer of Gaia bloom in the bottom 3” of soil.
This round I’m thinking of adding extra dry to the wick.


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## weedstoner420 (Jan 19, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> I talked with Thomas from High Alpine Genetics, he makes columns of fertilizer on the outside of the pot. He waters only through the grow. He uses a cup of biolive per 5 gal of soil. His columns of fertilizer get past a problem in using sips. Top dressing requires top watering if the top dries out to activate the fertilizer. And in my case I use sand to cap the soil to eliminate fungus knats so it’s almost always dry. By the fertilizer being vertical in the soil column it’s always moist and available. That’s brilliant. Thanks Thomas!


Maybe some of those Jobe's fertilizer spikes would also work...? That's a very interesting idea


----------



## Bignutes (Jan 19, 2022)

myke said:


> I did something like that last run. I had ran out of cooked soil so I just added some Gaia to promix. Then added a layer of Gaia bloom in the bottom 3” of soil.
> This round I’m thinking of adding extra dry to the wick.


How did it work out like that? 

The concern I have withputting it in the wick or the bottom is the water moves upwards always bringing nutrients with it as it passes, with it being in columns on the side it stays in the sides so the plant can access with lateral roots as needed


----------



## Bignutes (Jan 19, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Maybe some of those Jobe's fertilizer spikes would also work...? That's a very interesting idea


I was thinking that too, like @Richard Drysift does. I need to see howfar down the moisture level is to get the spike in the moist zone. I see that as an easier option.


----------



## Bignutes (Jan 19, 2022)

The other benefit of adding columns of fertilizer or spikes on the side is when you transplant the fertilizer is located on the edges so it doesn’t cause nute burn. The plant can grow into the high fertilizer zone


----------



## myke (Jan 19, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> How did it work out like that?
> 
> The concern I have withputting it in the wick or the bottom is the water moves upwards always bringing nutrients with it as it passes, with it being in columns on the side it stays in the sides so the plant can access with lateral roots as needed


Yes it worked fine. This was just plain promix hp. Mixed with Gaia and planted no cook time. I still top dressed and all was good. Plant wasn’t that big so that helps.


----------



## myke (Jan 19, 2022)

Water passes up wards in all areas. My dirt is all soaked top to bottom every square inch. Putting columns of food may burn a little when roots hit it. I’d prefer to have spread out evenly. Now plant size and dirt volume play a huge part.
I know 10 gallons is just on the edge of not enough. Roots fill it up.


----------



## Bignutes (Jan 19, 2022)

myke said:


> Water passes up wards in all areas. My dirt is all soaked top to bottom every square inch. Putting columns of food may burn a little when roots hit it. I’d prefer to have spread out evenly. Now plant size and dirt volume play a huge part.
> I know 10 gallons is just on the edge of not enough. Roots fill it up.


Your right water passes upwards, not sideways, which may benefit the columns/spike concept, keeping it as a reserve. Spreading out evenly is what I’ve been doing but in a 5 gal but it runs out in 30 days. If I make it any hotter it’ll burn the plants. Needs some testing to figure this out.


----------



## myke (Jan 20, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> Your right water passes upwards, not sideways, which may benefit the columns/spike concept, keeping it as a reserve. Spreading out evenly is what I’ve been doing but in a 5 gal but it runs out in 30 days. If I make it any hotter it’ll burn the plants. Needs some testing to figure this out.


Yup I find the same,5 gallons of dirt last 1 month.Really need 15-20G.


----------



## GrassBurner (Jan 20, 2022)

I can get about 6-8 weeks out of my 15 gallon sips. I think the Humic/Fulvic acid is gonna be a big help in making the nutrients more readily available. My Ninja Turtle Sips seem to be doing good so far, and I've watered in FulPower both times I've top dresses. They're almost 5 weeks into flower, and I haven't seen any issues, but they are GG4 which I believe is more of a sativa.


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 20, 2022)

i like to put dry nutes in trenches and let the roots find them , i still do the same instructions for trenches that came with my first earthbox


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## Tim Fox (Jan 20, 2022)

8 days in the SIP from clone , topped and starting to Bush, the discoloration on the left plant came that way from the store,


----------



## GrassBurner (Jan 20, 2022)

Added another 80 watts of light with a couple F strips. Raised the qb288 as high as I could without remote mounting the driver. Plants smell delicious, like some old school dank and sweet fruit.


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## GrassBurner (Jan 20, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> i like to put dry nutes in trenches and let the roots find them , i still do the same instructions for trenches that came with my first earthbox


I forgot all about the trenches Tim!! Im pretty sure I did that on my first couple of runs with the sips, seems like the plants didn't show as many deficiencies. I'll have to try them again on my next run


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## Tim Fox (Jan 20, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> I forgot all about the trenches Tim!! Im pretty sure I did that on my first couple of runs with the sips, seems like the plants didn't show as many deficiencies. I'll have to try them again on my next run


For sure and the roots find the trench when they are ready , I have had trenches dump out after the grow and they look like Grey goo with roots all around


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## Bignutes (Jan 20, 2022)

I remember somewhere there was talk of plants being lanky in sips, I know mine are and I see yours are too Grassburner. Did anyone have a solution to this? What cct are your strips?


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## Tim Fox (Jan 20, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> I remember somewhere there was talk of plants being lanky in sips, I know mine are and I see yours are too Grassburner. Did anyone have a solution to this? What cct are your strips?


Mine arnt, but I do severe training to mine


----------



## Bignutes (Jan 20, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> Mine arnt, but I do severe training to mine


I guess I could top them more. What cct do you flower under?


----------



## GrassBurner (Jan 21, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> I remember somewhere there was talk of plants being lanky in sips, I know mine are and I see yours are too Grassburner. Did anyone have a solution to this? What cct are your strips?


These plants have stretched more than any that I've grown. GG4 by GG Genetics. I've had some bushes in the sips, im guessing it's more genetics. The light they've been under is a qb288 rspec.


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 21, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> I remember somewhere there was talk of plants being lanky in sips, I know mine are and I see yours are too Grassburner. Did anyone have a solution to this? What cct are your strips?


if you go back thru the old pages of this thread you will see many examples of grows where the plants are Full and Lush and far from lanky,, big solid buds,, the idea that sips grow lanky plants is a myth in my opinion


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## Tim Fox (Jan 21, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> I guess I could top them more. What cct do you flower under?


i grow under COB leds,, a mixture of 4k citi cobs and 3k cree cobs,, dimmable with switches


----------



## Bignutes (Jan 21, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> if you go back thru the old pages of this thread you will see many examples of grows where the plants are Full and Lush and far from lanky,, big solid buds,, the idea that sips grow lanky plants is a myth in my opinion


did that, saw some lanky plants in my grow and others…….


----------



## myke (Jan 21, 2022)

You gotta train them or they'll hit the ceiling.


----------



## Bignutes (Jan 21, 2022)

I did the LBHs 4 way lst with some super cropping, not a lot of topping, no where near your plants. I’ve noticed on my plants that the lower longer branches are really thin, buds get big and they flop down under their own weight. I don’t trim the lowers as much as I should


----------



## GenericEnigma (Jan 21, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Chopped one of the plants in the growboxes. You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like...
> View attachment 5068544
> Despite looking like shit, she did not lose a single leaf, which is a personal best for me
> Her twin is still ripening up in the back for a bit. The dense and chaotic bud structure of this pheno makes it susceptible to mold, so I probably won't let it go too much longer.
> ...


I can't "like" yet, so I'll just tell you: those buds look really cool. Thanks for the pics!


----------



## weedstoner420 (Jan 21, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> I can't "like" yet, so I'll just tell you: those buds look really cool. Thanks for the pics!


Hah, thank you for the kind words!


----------



## GrassBurner (Jan 22, 2022)

Couple more pics of the glue that are 47 days into flower. Gotta get in there and do a light defoliation this weekend.


----------



## myke (Jan 22, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> I did the LBHs 4 way lst with some super cropping, not a lot of topping, no where near your plants. I’ve noticed on my plants that the lower longer branches are really thin, buds get big and they flop down under their own weight. I don’t trim the lowers as much as I should


Nothing to do with the sip, its your dirt.Consider adding more kelp to it for stronger stems.


----------



## myke (Jan 22, 2022)

Working on a new sip. 27g tote,foam board above the risers to hold the dirt. Trying to eliminate all possible areas gnats can get in. My other ones are tote on top of tote so this one I’ll be able to seal off the lid. Looks like about 18 gallons of dirt will fit. I’ll cut a hole in the lid and put a foam circle plug in so the stem can grow in. I’ll end up screwing the lid down and taping the seam in the lid for removal.
Not sure if sealing it right off is a good choice. I see some that have plastic bags over so should still be ok?


----------



## Bignutes (Jan 23, 2022)

myke said:


> Nothing to do with the sip, its your dirt.Consider adding more kelp to it for stronger stems.


Ive used kelp in the past with same results, thinking of changing cct during stretch. Plants outdoors don’t start flowering under 3000K or 3500K light


----------



## myke (Jan 23, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> Ive used kelp in the past with same results, thinking of changing cct during stretch. Plants outdoors don’t start flowering under 3000K or 3500K light


Whats cct?


----------



## Bignutes (Jan 23, 2022)

Cct is color count, or temperature of your light in Kelvin. A noon time sun is something like a cct of 6500K (more blue) a sunset is something like a cct of 2700K (more red) Blue light makes plants more stocky, red light more gangly. When I flip to flower next instead of flowering the first 2 weeks at 3300K I’ll do it at 4300K type of thing.


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 24, 2022)

Time for some bandage haha I bend the left plant straight over in the center, the right plant was already set up for some mainlining type action ,


----------



## Xsan (Jan 24, 2022)

Have any of you folks figured out a way to move the larger homemade sips once they are loaded? It is the last piece to my puzzle that I can't wrap my head around. I'd like to have a loaded sip ready to swap out when each one is done but my bins are overweight so I am afraid to try picking it up by the handles and they theoretically way over 400lbs so its beyond my ability to just pick up if I could lol

I've considered a dolley and stand inside the tent to keep it above the bottom flap, some sort of mobile seesaw type of apparatus, engine hoist(seems like best idea except for the space it takes), etc...

To make things even more fun I will only have a few ft of space to work with between tents


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 24, 2022)

Xsan said:


> Have any of you folks figured out a way to move the larger homemade sips once they are loaded? It is the last piece to my puzzle that I can't wrap my head around. I'd like to have a loaded sip ready to swap out when each one is done but my bins are overweight so I am afraid to try picking it up by the handles and they theoretically way over 400lbs so its beyond my ability to just pick up if I could lol
> 
> I've considered a dolley and stand inside the tent to keep it above the bottom flap, some sort of mobile seesaw type of apparatus, engine hoist(seems like best idea except for the space it takes), etc...
> 
> To make things even more fun I will only have a few ft of space to work with between tents


Movers dolly



Movers wedges


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 24, 2022)

Xsan said:


> Have any of you folks figured out a way to move the larger homemade sips once they are loaded? It is the last piece to my puzzle that I can't wrap my head around. I'd like to have a loaded sip ready to swap out when each one is done but my bins are overweight so I am afraid to try picking it up by the handles and they theoretically way over 400lbs so its beyond my ability to just pick up if I could lol
> 
> I've considered a dolley and stand inside the tent to keep it above the bottom flap, some sort of mobile seesaw type of apparatus, engine hoist(seems like best idea except for the space it takes), etc...
> 
> To make things even more fun I will only have a few ft of space to work with between tents


i use a dolly from harbor freight, and i built a box with handles to assist me,, but the dolly does the hard work,, i love it,, i used to have my son help me lift it in and out of the box, but now i can do it myself


----------



## Xsan (Jan 24, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Movers dolly
> 
> View attachment 5073395
> 
> ...



The zon of ama came up blank on the wedge but they had "curb ramps" and plastic dollys 

This might work, I'll just to empty the rez before moving to avoid it soaking the one side but it certainly seems to be the best option so far, thank you!


----------



## Xsan (Jan 24, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> i use a dolly from harbor freight, and i built a box with handles to assist me,, but the dolly does the hard work,, i love it,, i used to have my son help me lift it in and out of the box, but now i can do it myselfView attachment 5073400



I was eyeballing something similar after I saw your dolly but it was only 4 inches tall and i didn't want to crush the zipper on the tent


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 24, 2022)

Xsan said:


> The zon of ama came up blank on the wedge but they had "curb ramps" and plastic dollys
> 
> This might work, I'll just to empty the rez before moving to avoid it soaking the one side but it certainly seems to be the best option so far, thank you!


Curb ramp is the proper name. Lol

I'm a mover so everything is move related to me. Lol


----------



## Xsan (Jan 24, 2022)

Now I'm debating keeping the sip on the dolly or dropping it to the floor once it's the room, might have to play around with it a bit. I'd like to keep the extra headspace just in case I end up with a monster


----------



## raggyb (Jan 24, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Movers dolly
> 
> View attachment 5073395
> 
> ...


I've never seen these movers wedges. How do you use them?


----------



## Bignutes (Jan 24, 2022)

Xsan said:


> Have any of you folks figured out a way to move the larger homemade sips once they are loaded? It is the last piece to my puzzle that I can't wrap my head around. I'd like to have a loaded sip ready to swap out when each one is done but my bins are overweight so I am afraid to try picking it up by the handles and they theoretically way over 400lbs so its beyond my ability to just pick up if I could lol
> 
> I've considered a dolley and stand inside the tent to keep it above the bottom flap, some sort of mobile seesaw type of apparatus, engine hoist(seems like best idea except for the space it takes), etc...
> 
> To make things even more fun I will only have a few ft of space to work with between tents


I made these dollies, they are my low riders, they add about an 1 1/2” to overal height. Used them to move my 17 gal sips, it handles 17 gal of wet soil and 4 gal of rez water. Also used the ones that @Hollatchaboy posted with plywood overtop.


----------



## Bignutes (Jan 24, 2022)

Xsan said:


> Now I'm debating keeping the sip on the dolly or dropping it to the floor once it's the room, might have to play around with it a bit. I'd like to keep the extra headspace just in case I end up with a monster


keep it on it, I move mine around frequently and it’s way easier to inspect plants and do maintenance


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 24, 2022)

When you get bored ... you plan a re design of your grow spaces! Lolz only need 3k and an electrician to put in a sub panel...


----------



## Xsan (Jan 24, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> keep it on it, I move mine around frequently and it’s way easier to inspect plants and do maintenance



That was my thought. I think I'd want something on the ground to avoid thrashing the tent liner


----------



## Xsan (Jan 24, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> When you get bored ... you plan a re design of your grow spaces! Lolz only need 3k and an electrician to put in a sub panel...



Mini split will be next room upgrade


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 24, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> I made these dollies, they are my low riders, they add about an 1 1/2” to overal height. Used them to move my 17 gal sips, it handles 17 gal of wet soil and 4 gal of rez water. Also used the ones that @Hollatchaboy posted with plywood overtop.View attachment 5073440View attachment 5073444


very nice


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 24, 2022)

Xsan said:


> Mini split will be next room upgrade


I'm in a cool basement in the north so I actually have to HEAT my grows a lot of the time lol I know that sounds ridiculous to most but here I am... it got all the way up to a balmy 10 degrees today! Probably will be 20 below tonight.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 24, 2022)

Xsan said:


> Mini split will be next room upgrade


Heck your mini split will cost basically what these 3 rooms will...


----------



## Xsan (Jan 24, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Heck your mini split will cost basically what these 3 rooms will...



Yeah I'm not looking forward to that one lol. Maybe I'll get lucky and get away with the window banger


----------



## myke (Jan 24, 2022)

Ha, Im reading this as Im cleaning and refilling my sips.Looking at my bigger new one, may have to fill with a few trips to the bsmt.
Should just make a 1000g sip and be done with it.Ha, house for sale, comes with a bsmt garden lol.


----------



## weedstoner420 (Jan 24, 2022)

myke said:


> Ha, Im reading this as Im cleaning and refilling my sips.Looking at my bigger new one, may have to fill with a few trips to the bsmt.
> Should just make a 1000g sip and be done with it.Ha, house for sale, comes with a bsmt garden lol.


That makes me think of a grow I saw on here a few years back...dude had an unfinished basement with dirt floor and literally dug holes in the floor and put his plants straight in the "ground". I forget if he was running organic or synthetic but it seemed to work pretty well...


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 24, 2022)

raggyb said:


> I've never seen these movers wedges. How do you use them?


Kinda like this..... 



Only if there a step up going over the threshold. To go over the tent, just use 2.


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 24, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I'm in a cool basement in the north so I actually have to HEAT my grows a lot of the time lol I know that sounds ridiculous to most but here I am... it got all the way up to a balmy 10 degrees today! Probably will be 20 below tonight.


52 here in Oregon right now at pm,,, not bad


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 24, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> 52 here in Oregon right now at pm,,, not bad


We're at 10f here in Northern Illinois.


----------



## Feo309 (Jan 24, 2022)

A balmy 19f here, about 3 when I get up in the morning to get the trash cans to the curb.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 24, 2022)

Feo309 said:


> A balmy 19f here, about 3 when I get up in the morning to get the trash cans to the curb.


My weather app says it'll be -1f at 7 am here. Lol


----------



## myke (Jan 24, 2022)

34f here,3 weeks ago it was -34f. Loving it now.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 24, 2022)

myke said:


> 34f here,3 weeks ago it was -34f. Loving it now.


Yea -34 is pretty rough. We had wind chills in the -20s two weeks ago. It sucked, but -34 would keep me from going to work. Lol


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## myke (Jan 24, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea -34 is pretty rough. We had wind chills in the -20s two weeks ago. It sucked, but -34 would keep me from going to work. Lol


Yup,over Christmas it was close to -40,C or F its the same.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 24, 2022)

myke said:


> Yup,over Christmas it was close to -40,C or F its the same.


I'll stick with what we have here. Lol
It's actually been a mild winter. They seem to get shorter and milder every few years.


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## Feo309 (Jan 24, 2022)

myke said:


> Yup,over Christmas it was close to -40,C or F its the same.


I think that’s supposed to be written -40FC. 

For F’n Cold.


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## Bignutes (Jan 24, 2022)

Xsan said:


> Yeah I'm not looking forward to that one lol. Maybe I'll get lucky and get away with the window banger


It’s cool here, I’d go for the finger banger to warm things up


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## cindysid (Jan 24, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Kinda like this.....
> 
> View attachment 5073606
> 
> Only if there a step up going over the threshold. To go over the tent, just use 2.


My husband made me some of these to roll my earthboxes in and out of the tents. They work great! Just one inside and one outside. Easy to remove when I'm not using them.


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## cindysid (Jan 24, 2022)

I have some 100 gallon rubbermaid horse troughs that I'm considering making into sips. I've grown with earth boxes for several grows, and I think it would be fun to run some giant sips this Summer on my huge deck? Do you guys think it would be practical? If so what would you suggest for the tray and wicking? I like the foam board idea. Maybe with irrigation pipe below the foam to support it along with some pvc on the edges?


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 24, 2022)

cindysid said:


> My husband made me some of these to roll my earthboxes in and out of the tents. They work great! Just one inside and one outside. Easy to remove when I'm not using them.


Honestly, between those ramps, and the 4 wheel dolly, I could move just about anything. The come in handy more than most would think.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 24, 2022)

cindysid said:


> I have some 100 gallon rubbermaid horse troughs that I'm considering making into sips. I've grown with earth boxes for several grows, and I think it would be fun to run some giant sips this Summer on my huge deck? Do you guys think it would be practical? If so what would you suggest for the tray and wicking? I like the foam board idea. Maybe with irrigation pipe below the foam to support it along with some pvc on the edges?


Do you run no till?


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## cindysid (Jan 24, 2022)

That's what I will be doing. I will be using the super soil I used last year with amendments. I plan on reusing it (no till) once it is set up. I'm looking for advice!


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 24, 2022)

cindysid said:


> That's what I will be doing. I will be using the super soil I used last year with amendments. I plan on reusing it (no till) once it is set up. I'm looking for advice!


In the trough sips, imo, no till would be great. Large volume of soil, you could grow a monster and not really worry about depleting.


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## cindysid (Jan 24, 2022)

That's what I'm hoping! My soil is full of worms and I have it in the barn mixed up with some ewc and composted manures. I'm going to add some gypsum as soon as the weather warms up a bit. I can cook it until June! As soon as the freezes are over I may go ahead and set them up, plant some clover as a cover crop. What do you think Holla?


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 24, 2022)

cindysid said:


> That's what I'm hoping! My soil is full of worms and I have it in the barn mixed up with some ewc and composted manures. I'm going to add some gypsum as soon as the weather warms up a bit. I can cook it until June! As soon as the freezes are over I may go ahead and set them up, plant some clover as a cover crop. What do you think Holla?


Sounds good. I like to make sure there's a wide diversity of organic matter. Kelp and alfalfa meal are definitely your friend.


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## cindysid (Jan 24, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Sounds good. I like to make sure there's a wide diversity of organic matter. Kelp and alfalfa meal are definitely your friend.


Yes, I have both! I feed a lot of alfalfa to my animals, so it's always on hand and I have plenty of kelp powder, crab shell, rock dust, and gypsum.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 24, 2022)

cindysid said:


> Yes, I have both! I feed a lot of alfalfa to my animals, so it's always on hand and I have plenty of kelp powder, crab shell, rock dust, and gypsum.


Sounds like you got it covered. Speaking of which, what are you gonna cover(mulch) with? Lol


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## cindysid (Jan 24, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Sounds like you got it covered. Speaking of which, what are you gonna cover(mulch) with? Lol


Haven't thought about that. What do you suggest?


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## Bignutes (Jan 24, 2022)

cindysid said:


> I have some 100 gallon rubbermaid horse troughs that I'm considering making into sips. I've grown with earth boxes for several grows, and I think it would be fun to run some giant sips this Summer on my huge deck? Do you guys think it would be practical? If so what would you suggest for the tray and wicking? I like the foam board idea. Maybe with irrigation pipe below the foam to support it along with some pvc on the edges?


Just be careful on a deck those would be heavy suckers


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## Xsan (Jan 25, 2022)

cindysid said:


> I have some 100 gallon rubbermaid horse troughs that I'm considering making into sips. I've grown with earth boxes for several grows, and I think it would be fun to run some giant sips this Summer on my huge deck? Do you guys think it would be practical? If so what would you suggest for the tray and wicking? I like the foam board idea. Maybe with irrigation pipe below the foam to support it along with some pvc on the edges?



Depending on how tall they are you could do 6" drain pipe then fill the gaps with vermiculite. 

If you do it, post it and tag me so I can follow along


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## Feo309 (Jan 25, 2022)

I have two homemade SIPs that hold 10-12 gallons of soil and 3-4 gallons of water. In a 2 by 4 ft tent. (Plus 3other SIPs, but that’s a whole ‘nuther story.) My tent (NO idea of brand) unzips around the sides so I have room to muscle the containers in and out. Without that feature, these size SIPs would have been out of the question.

And they consume all the vertical height I can allow. Losing a couple more inches for casters would be rough. (I guess I’m in the Short Plants R Us club for the foreseeable future.)

LOL


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## cindysid (Jan 25, 2022)

Xsan said:


> Depending on how tall they are you could do 6" drain pipe then fill the gaps with vermiculite.
> 
> If you do it, post it and tag me so I can follow along


I will and thanks for the advice. They are about 2 feet tall so that would work.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 25, 2022)

cindysid said:


> I will and thanks for the advice. They are about 2 feet tall so that would work.


You gotta post these monster trees that you are going to get in a sip that size!


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 25, 2022)

cindysid said:


> Haven't thought about that. What do you suggest?


Malted barley straw at the very least.


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## cindysid (Jan 25, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> You gotta post these monster trees that you are going to get in a sip that size!


I’m thinking about doing a scrog. Just not sure how big the screen would need to be! Will be posting my results.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 25, 2022)

cindysid said:


> I’m thinking about doing a scrog. Just not sure how big the screen would need to be! Will be posting my results.


You would probably have to do more than 1, depending on how long you veg it out. I'd say cage it, but it might make it difficult to water, and feed if needed.


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## cindysid (Jan 25, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Malted barley straw at the very least.


Where would I get that? I have malted barley flour to use as a top dress, but hadn't heard about malted hay.


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## myke (Jan 25, 2022)

If you have bales of alfalfa just use that,cut it up into 6-8" pieces and lay them across the top.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 25, 2022)

cindysid said:


> Where would I get that? I have malted barley flour to use as a top dress, but hadn't heard about malted hay.


I get mine from build a soil, but you may be able to find cheaper locally sourced. I'm a build a soil junkie, though I know there's cheaper alternatives that are at least just as good, but they have really quality products imo.


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## cindysid (Jan 25, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I get mine from build a soil, but you may be able to find cheaper locally sourced. I'm a build a soil junkie, though I know there's cheaper alternatives that are at least just as good, but they have really quality products imo.


I will check it out. I want only the best for my phat girls!


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 25, 2022)

myke said:


> If you have bales of alfalfa just use that,cut it up into 6-8" pieces and lay them across the top.


Or that. Lol
I only suggested mbs cuz it's a good fungus source.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 25, 2022)

cindysid said:


> I will check it out. I want only the best for my phat girls!


Alfalfa straw works well also. If you have good fungal dominance, just about anything will work. Even defoliated leaves if nothing else.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 25, 2022)

cindysid said:


> Where would I get that? I have malted barley flour to use as a top dress, but hadn't heard about malted hay.


You can use straw or whatever really. I have used straw also or just stuff I have chopped from the plant. It just needs to hold the moisture in really.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 25, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Alfalfa straw works well also. If you have good fungal dominance, just about anything will work. Even defoliated leaves if nothing else.


Exactly


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 25, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> You can use straw or whatever really. I have used straw also or just stuff I have chopped from the plant. It just needs to hold the moisture in really.


Hell, the earthbox uses a shower cap. Lol


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## cindysid (Jan 25, 2022)

cindysid said:


> I will check it out. I want only the best for my phat girls!


Ok they have Barley Mulch (doesn't say malted) and Blue Oyster mushroom logs which you can break up to make mulch. Which do you think would be better? It seems to me that the mushroom logs would work great since they already have plenty of fungal activity.


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## cindysid (Jan 25, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Exactly


I have plenty of alfalfa hay. Just trying to figure out what is best. I won't be setting these out until May 28 when my day length reaches 14.5 hrs, so I have plenty of time to gather materials.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 25, 2022)

cindysid said:


> Ok they have Barley Mulch (doesn't say malted) and Blue Oyster mushroom logs which you can break up to make mulch. Which do you think would be better?


Depends on how fungally dominant you believe your soil may be. Imo, with a sip, fungal dominance is easily achieved and kept, with all the moisture. There's other ways of getting there though. I just like diversity, cuz then I cover all my bases.


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## cindysid (Jan 25, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> You would probably have to do more than 1, depending on how long you veg it out. I'd say cage it, but it might make it difficult to water, and feed if needed.


I plan on building a framework on four legs to set over the top of the trough, extending beyond the trough on each side. I will cover the top of the frame with 3x3 in netting. I will have a watering pipe on one end extending into the reservoir of the trough. Hopefully with so much soil, I can have enough nutrient in the soil to carry me through until harvest. I will have a hose going from the drain to the lower part of my deck, where I raise tomatoes in big pots. Figured the effluent from the sip won't do them any harm. Any critique or suggestions about my plan are welcome.


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## cindysid (Jan 25, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> Just be careful on a deck those would be heavy suckers


My deck is very well built. It has 8x8 supports and 2x6 decking. I've had big parties out there. I doubt they weigh much more that 3 or 4 of my guests...lol I'm figuring about 800 lbs set up.


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## myke (Jan 25, 2022)

Myself it would be more about how it looks,I did plastic totes last year and just spray painted the lids to hide the yellow.This year Ill make them a little more modern looking.


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## cindysid (Jan 25, 2022)

myke said:


> Myself it would be more about how it looks,I did plastic totes last year and just spray painted the lids to hide the yellow.This year Ill make them a little more modern looking.


The troughs are black. I've used them to raise koi before and I can make them look pretty nice, especially when they have huge cannabis plants growing in them! In theory this seems like a great idea. I'm sure I'll run into some problems along the way.


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## myke (Jan 25, 2022)

cindysid said:


> The troughs are black. I've used them to raise koi before and I can make them look pretty nice, especially when they have huge cannabis plants growing in them! In theory this seems like a great idea. I'm sure I'll run into some problems along the way.


If they didnt smell so much Id grow them outside too,frig-gen aphids just get stuck to them.


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## myke (Jan 25, 2022)

With a good amount of fertile soil ,it should be easy to grow huge plants in sips.

My cherry tomatoes last year in 27g sips.


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## cindysid (Jan 25, 2022)

myke said:


> With a good amount of fertile soil ,it should be easy to grow huge plants in sips.
> 
> My cherry tomatoes last year in 27g sips.View attachment 5074274


Yes I saw these before and I love tomatoes! May try this this year! Beautiful!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 25, 2022)

I actually went to the Darkseid and bought a 4x4 fabric bed from build a soil to try out lol they seem to be pretty fool proof, from their latest video series.


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## cindysid (Jan 26, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I actually went to the Darkseid and bought a 4x4 fabric bed from build a soil to try out lol they seem to be pretty fool proof, from their latest video series.


I will check that out!


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 26, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I actually went to the Darkseid and bought a 4x4 fabric bed from build a soil to try out lol they seem to be pretty fool proof, from their latest video series.


The grassroots fabric beds they have are killer, I've been contemplating getting their 3x3 version. I'm still liking the sips more right now though.


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## GenericEnigma (Jan 27, 2022)

I'd say the wicking bed was a success. I'll finish up the thread in Organics with some final pics, but I'm joining this band of green thumbs.

For those unfamiliar with my project, it's full-on living soil I customized with mostly local inputs (from my yard). My goal is to cut out all outsourced inputs and go with a conflation of hugelkultur and KNF.

In case no one here has mentioned it, SIPs are the best.

See pics for case-in-point.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 27, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> I'd say the wicking bed was a success. I'll finish up the thread in Organics with some final pics, but I'm joining this band of green thumbs.
> 
> For those unfamiliar with my project, it's full-on living soil I customized with mostly local inputs (from my yard). My goal is to cut out all outsourced inputs and go with a conflation of hugelkultur and KNF.
> 
> ...


Imo there's no argument that sips are the best.


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## Feo309 (Jan 29, 2022)

Okay, I’ve just about completed my first grow in the 10-gallon SIPs. And I could use some other perspectives on an issue.

The SIP at issue is made of two 10-gallon Roughneck totes using a 5-inch net pot for a wicking channel. Photo below.

The issue is a dry corner. I tried top-watering slowly using yucca root powder in the water then re-filling the reservoir, but a week later that corner was dry again. I keep the soil covered with a plastic bag, but this container is not wicking as well as the other (different construction as well as different soil).

The soil in this SIP is Sohum amended with biochar, some dolomite lime, and extra mycos. The soil in the other SIP is FFOF with many more amendments, and it seems to be wicking well. Perhaps a bit too well, but that’s not a major issue at the moment. And I don’t remember which soil I used to pack the net pot in this particular SIP.

So, is it possible for a soil to be too loose, too fluffy, too aerated for effective use in a SIP?

Any input would be welcome, my plan was to re-amend the existing soil in place and re-run, but I think that dry corner would cause me issues with a heavier-feeding plant.

If this isn’t the place for this post, point me in the right direction forum-wise. This thread seems to be the experience-rich environment.

Edit : The corner in question is diagonallly opposite the fill tube.


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## GenericEnigma (Jan 29, 2022)

Feo309 said:


> Okay, I’ve just about completed my first grow in the 10-gallon SIPs. And I could use some other perspectives on an issue.
> 
> The SIP at issue is made of two 10-gallon Roughneck totes using a 5-inch net pot for a wicking channel. Photo below.
> 
> ...


Well, since folks use gravel or 100% perlite for a reservoir wick, I doubt a loose soil would impede the wicking of water, even in peat. Especially if water wicks to the top elsewhere. 

I suspect something else is going on. Perhaps that side of your SIP is a lot warmer, or it's closer to the fan. Or maybe something is going on with the soil itself, like it didn't get fully mixed, or a big chunk of hydrophobic peat never really got moistened. I'm not sure what your biochar texture is like, and a big, dry chunk of that might be interfering?

But I doubt the soil is too aerated. Either way, I would dig in and investigate before reamending--you know, if it were me!


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## myke (Jan 29, 2022)

Is the plant on the small side? My soil is all peat base and there's no problems with wicking.The soil is always wet even if the lid is off.
Are you keeping the res full?
Does the wick sit right on the bottom tote?
Would have to think its your soil mix,
My wicks are filled with same soil nothing different.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 29, 2022)

I use straight peat moss as wicks and they work great. In my diy 20 gallon, 5 gallons and my earthboxes and generic rip earth boxes I got from.a buddy who used them for cherry tomatoes on his deck. So the peat should not be the issue. And yes my soil is also peat based.


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## myke (Jan 29, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I use straight peat moss as wicks and they work great. In my diy 20 gallon, 5 gallons and my earthboxes and generic rip earth boxes I got from.a buddy who used them for cherry tomatoes on his deck. So the peat should not be the issue. And yes my soil is also peat based.


My soils pH has crept up over the last year,was thinking of adding straight peat to the wick.
Is there any fear of too much? My tap is hard at 7.2pH with calcium carbonate in it.
I dont know how much difference the straight peat would make?


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 29, 2022)

myke said:


> My soils pH has crept up over the last year,was thinking of adding straight peat to the wick.
> Is there any fear of too much? My tap is hard at 7.2pH with calcium carbonate in it.
> I dont know how much difference the straight peat would make?


I would think it would be fine to use straight peat. That's what I was always taught to do actually. I used the original pdf posted at the very beginning of this thread years ago as a guide, and it mentions using plain peat moss as a wick. I also make sure to add a small mound of peat moss on top of the wick and then saturate it before adding the rest of my soil.


----------



## myke (Jan 29, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I would think it would be fine to use straight peat. That's what I was always taught to do actually. I used the original pdf posted at the very beginning of this thread years ago as a guide, and it mentions using plain peat moss as a wick. I also make sure to add a small mound of peat moss on top of the wick and then saturate it before adding the rest of my soil.


My fear is roots fill the wicks pretty quickly,thinking lack of food and acidic my cause a problem.
But then my tap water probably neutralizes it in no time being submerged.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 29, 2022)

myke said:


> My fear is roots fill the wicks pretty quickly,thinking lack of food and acidic my cause a problem.
> But then my tap water probably neutralizes it in no time being submerged.


Those roots are water roots the feeder roots are more on the top.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 29, 2022)

myke said:


> My fear is roots fill the wicks pretty quickly,thinking lack of food and acidic my cause a problem.
> But then my tap water probably neutralizes it in no time being submerged.


I personally like how build a soil hacks the earthboxes and try to go with that tech...but I have gone to the dark side and bought a 4x4 soil bed to try out this next run.


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## myke (Jan 29, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Those roots are water roots the feeder roots are more on the top.


Yeah its hard to get grips with all those roots down there with no food.You get used to it and just keep feeding from above.

Filling my sips today, on the fence about what I should add.

Thanks.


----------



## myke (Jan 29, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I personally like how build a soil hacks the earthboxes and try to go with that tech...but I have gone to the dark side and bought a 4x4 soil bed to try out this next run.


I still have fears of a big bed and having to water it,Would be like 30 gallons on ea watering or something like that.How do ya know when and how much?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 29, 2022)

myke said:


> I still have fears of a big bed and having to water it,Would be like 30 gallons on ea watering or something like that.How do ya know when and how much?


From watching the build a soil 10 x 10 series on you tube in which he goes through an entire grow with a soil bed sips and 30 gallon pots, I think even some five gallons. According to him it's about the feel of the bed and you can kind of pull down the sides and feel the soil. Using mulch and or cover crop he is very successful. Going to try to replicate that and hopefully have it be as easy as sips. But we will see!


----------



## weedstoner420 (Jan 29, 2022)

Feo309 said:


> Okay, I’ve just about completed my first grow in the 10-gallon SIPs. And I could use some other perspectives on an issue.
> 
> The SIP at issue is made of two 10-gallon Roughneck totes using a 5-inch net pot for a wicking channel. Photo below.
> 
> ...


I had one run where my soil was on the dry side, even with a plastic cover, and I think it was due to not packing it tight enough. I'm thinking like, when you're top watering, the soil is going to compact over time as the water flows down through it, so there is a tendency to pack it more loosely to begin with, and maybe that compaction doesn't happen to the same degree in a sip? Since then I've packed them more tightly, especially in the wicks, and mounded the soil up as high as possible, like an inch or two over the top of the container, and it stays pretty wet that way.

Dunno why yours would only be dry in one area though. Either way, I'd dump it out and re-pack it before the next run.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 29, 2022)

myke said:


> I still have fears of a big bed and having to water it,Would be like 30 gallons on ea watering or something like that.How do ya know when and how much?


I kinda have that same fear. It's one of the things that's kept me from getting on board with a bed. It's another learning curve I'm sure. That's why I feel sips are superior. It's always a perfect moisture level. My plants love it, and so does the microbial life. The wigglers seem like they want out though. Lol


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 29, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> Well, since folks use gravel or 100% perlite for a reservoir wick, I doubt a loose soil would impede the wicking of water, even in peat. Especially if water wicks to the top elsewhere.
> 
> I suspect something else is going on. Perhaps that side of your SIP is a lot warmer, or it's closer to the fan. Or maybe something is going on with the soil itself, like it didn't get fully mixed, or a big chunk of hydrophobic peat never really got moistened. I'm not sure what your biochar texture is like, and a big, dry chunk of that might be interfering?
> 
> But I doubt the soil is too aerated. Either way, I would dig in and investigate before reamending--you know, if it were me!


Maybe that side of the wick washed out?


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## GenericEnigma (Jan 29, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Maybe that side of the wick washed out?


It's gotta be something. The investigation might end up as @weedstoner420 suggests (dump/repack)!


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 29, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> It's gotta be something. The investigation might end up as @weedstoner420 suggests (dump/repack)!


It may be the only way to know for sure. Make sure you pack the wick *tight*.


----------



## myke (Jan 29, 2022)

Question for you sippers,some cover the dirt with garbage bags and what not.Im going full on this round to eliminate the gnats.

Any concerns about air for the top soil? Plan is to put old bed sheets over then screw the tote lid down,use insulation around stem to stop any gnats from getting in or out.
Basically sealing up the whole show,ill put fabric over the fill tube so air still gets in the res.

What say you,can we completely block off all the top soil?


----------



## Feo309 (Jan 29, 2022)

Okay, lots of input. Let’s see what I can add.

The biochar I added is small bits, from buildasoil, the wicking basket does rest on the bottom of the reservoir, and after looking at my notes and the bags I have laying around here I’m pretty sure I packed both wicks with Happy Frog. Because it was handy. Lol.

I packed both SIPs in layers, wetting the layers with EM1 and Recharge. Packed the soil around a 1-qt size yogurt container and filled those holes with HF to plant the seeds in.

I then covered the SIPs with garbage bags and left them to sit for over a week with empty reservoirs while I reconfigured the equipment in my tent and got seeds germinated. After I got the seeds in, I top watered conservatively and did not fill the reservoirs until the seedlings had about 2.5 weeks of growth. 

That may have been the start of the issue. That corner may have dried out during this time and couldn’t recover. Dunno, and not sure how to test my hypothesis. Oh well.

The plant in this one is small. It’s a Red CBD Auto from Sweet Seeds, and they aren’t joking when they say they’re sensitive to nutrients when young. The first sets of leaves on this plant twisted like Jimmy Swaggert answering questions about the hooker in the motel room. But it got past that and is 24 inches tall with a nice thick cola.

But it never drank like the Strawberry Nuggets in the other SIP. I didn’t keep the reservoir full, but it never got empty. The SN on the other hand has been taking up a gallon a day for the past 4 weeks.

I’ll continue my thoughts on this in a bit, thanks for the input and if anyone sees any holes in my logic, chime in. It’s a rare day I don’t get called a dumbass at least once.


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## myke (Jan 29, 2022)

Or should I open the tote lid with some holes with the cloth under?.
The cloth kinda acts as a gasket, the taper of the tote makes it hard to run rope or bunjies around to seal it.


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## Feo309 (Jan 29, 2022)

My intention was to re-amend, plant a cover crop, and introduce some worms. Then perhaps feed the worms on the edges of the dry area and see if their activity worked to correct the situation.

But dumping and re-packing after amending will prolly be the way I go, if just because of curiosity if for no better reason. Since I’m in no hurry to re-plant in that one it’ll be out of my way while I do other dumb stuff.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 29, 2022)

myke said:


> Question for you sippers,some cover the dirt with garbage bags and what not.Im going full on this round to eliminate the gnats.
> 
> Any concerns about air for the top soil? Plan is to put old bed sheets over then screw the tote lid down,use insulation around stem to stop any gnats from getting in or out.
> Basically sealing up the whole show,ill put fabric over the fill tube so air still gets in the res.
> ...


I would think it would cause anaerobic conditions, no?


----------



## myke (Jan 29, 2022)

Feo309 said:


> My intention was to re-amend, plant a cover crop, and introduce some worms. Then perhaps feed the worms on the edges of the dry area and see if their activity worked to correct the situation.
> 
> But dumping and re-packing after amending will prolly be the way I go, if just because of curiosity if for no better reason. Since I’m in no hurry to re-plant in that one it’ll be out of my way while I do other dumb stuff.


Mine are 10 gallon I dump out and re amended then let cook again.My soil is depleted of nutes after ea run,I do keep it moist though so it never really dies.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 29, 2022)

Feo309 said:


> My intention was to re-amend, plant a cover crop, and introduce some worms. Then perhaps feed the worms on the edges of the dry area and see if their activity worked to correct the situation.
> 
> But dumping and re-packing after amending will prolly be the way I go, if just because of curiosity if for no better reason. Since I’m in no hurry to re-plant in that one it’ll be out of my way while I do other dumb stuff.


Do you use a surfactant at all? I add yucca extract to every res fill. I don't get any dry spots.


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## myke (Jan 29, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I would think it would cause anaerobic conditions, no?


I just dont know,trying to avoid sand this time.Figured removing lid and material is easier to top dress.
I may go with say 2 4x4" holes in the sip lid to allow air with the fabric under.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 29, 2022)

myke said:


> Or should I open the tote lid with some holes with the cloth under?.
> The cloth kinda acts as a gasket, the taper of the tote makes it hard to run rope or bunjies around to seal it.


Would something like these work?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 29, 2022)

myke said:


> I just dont know,trying to avoid sand this time.Figured removing lid and material is easier to top dress.
> I may go with say 2 4x4" holes in the sip lid to allow air with the fabric under.


Use some panda plastic and chip clips.


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## Feo309 (Jan 29, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Do you use a surfactant at all? I add yucca extract to every res fill. I don't get any dry spots.


I used yucca in the water when I initially packed it, along with EM1 and Recharge. And I used it when I tried to correct with top-watering. But it never occurred to me to add it to the reservoir. Thanks for that tip.

Would adding dry yucca when mixing soil be worthwhile?


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## myke (Jan 29, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Would something like these work?
> 
> View attachment 5076595
> View attachment 5076597


Well the lid still snaps down with the sheet over so kinda a good seal.Some small screws around the top edge would be good.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 29, 2022)

Feo309 said:


> I used yucca in the water when I initially packed it, along with EM1 and Recharge. And I used it when I tried to correct with top-watering. But it never occurred to me to add it to the reservoir. Thanks for that tip.
> 
> Would adding dry yucca when mixing soil be worthwhile?


I've never tried that, so I can't say for sure.


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## myke (Jan 29, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Use some panda plastic and chip clips.


That blocks air though.


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## weedstoner420 (Jan 29, 2022)

Feo309 said:


> That may have been the start of the issue. That corner may have dried out during this time and couldn’t recover. Dunno, and not sure how to test my hypothesis. Oh well.


Yeah once peat dries out and gets hydrophobic it can be a pain to rehydrate. Sometimes you have to soak it multiple times IME. Yucca would probably help but I don't have any experience with using it myself.

I always leave some water in the reservoir too, even if there's nothing growing in it, just so it all stays evenly moist.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 29, 2022)

myke said:


> That blocks air though.


Yea, I reckon it does.


----------



## Tim Fox (Jan 29, 2022)

19 days in the SIP, keeping them as flat as I can, another week or so until timer flip mine is plastic covered with clips , not sure if that's what's being talked about


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 29, 2022)

myke said:


> Well the lid still snaps down with the sheet over so kinda a good seal.Some small screws around the top edge would be good.


You're gonna have to guinea pig it. Lol


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 29, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> 19 days in the SIP, keeping them as flat as I can, another week or so until timer flip mine is plastic covered with clips , not sure if that's what's being talked aboutView attachment 5076606View attachment 5076607View attachment 5076608View attachment 5076609


Yea he gonna want it tighter though to keep the gnats out.


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## myke (Jan 29, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> 19 days in the SIP, keeping them as flat as I can, another week or so until timer flip mine is plastic covered with clips , not sure if that's what's being talked aboutView attachment 5076606View attachment 5076607View attachment 5076608View attachment 5076609


Ya thats it,so no fear of lack of air? Id seal around the stems with rockwool.
Ok so cool I can seal it off then,thanks your pick helped.


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## myke (Jan 29, 2022)

I found this pic on the Greens thread.Looks all plastic and sealed up


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 29, 2022)

myke said:


> I found this pic on the Greens thread.Looks all plastic and sealed upView attachment 5076618


If you use worms, I'd make sure there's a way to get a lil air in there. Also beneficial insects and predators running around on the surface prolly need a lil o2 as well.


----------



## myke (Jan 29, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> If you use worms, I'd make sure there's a way to get a lil air in there. Also beneficial insects and predators running around on the surface prolly need a lil o2 as well.


Ya,Ill use the old bed sheets I have.Will still get air and I can seal every thing up.

So now theyll be an air space between soil and top of tote.What happens with gnats in that little space? They still can live a lay eggs id think?
Or do I need the soil right up to the top so material lays right ontop?


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 29, 2022)

myke said:


> Ya,Ill use the old bed sheets I have.Will still get air and I can seal every thing up.
> 
> So now theyll be an air space between soil and top of tote.What happens with gnats in that little space? They still can live a lay eggs id think?
> Or do I need the soil right up to the top so material lays right ontop?


Mine has a gap in the beginning, but as I top dress, it bulges over, and the cover lays directly on top of the soil.


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## myke (Jan 29, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Mine has a gap in the beginning, but as I top dress, it bulges over, and the cover lays directly on top of the soil.


Well Im starting with good soil this round,has sand on it for last 3 months so I dont think theres any in it.At least theres none flying around where I store the soil.
Lets hope sealing off the totes is the final nail to these fuckers lol.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 29, 2022)

myke said:


> Well Im starting with good soil this round,has sand on it for last 3 months so I dont think theres any in it.At least theres none flying around where I store the soil.
> Lets hope sealing off the totes is the final nail to these fuckers lol.


Good luck man.


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## weedstoner420 (Jan 29, 2022)

The soil also gets oxygen from below, through the holes in the bottom of the inner container


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jan 29, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> The soil also gets oxygen from below, through the holes in the bottom of the inner container


Does it get to the surface that way though? I guess maybe the water wicks it up with it?


----------



## raggyb (Jan 29, 2022)

Feo309 said:


> Okay, I’ve just about completed my first grow in the 10-gallon SIPs. And I could use some other perspectives on an issue.
> 
> The SIP at issue is made of two 10-gallon Roughneck totes using a 5-inch net pot for a wicking channel. Photo below.
> 
> ...


I'm in the same boat making my own or you may be further along but if it were me I feel like you need 2 wicks for that size. So if you wanted to adjust that one maybe put a couple of 3 inch net pot wicks half way to the side of the one you got. I also have seen differences in water wicking between otherwise identical sips and the only explanation I could come up with was it was something to do with uneven packing of the soil. I follow 20/80% perlite/pete in the wick but don't know if that is best. It also sounds to me like maybe you could use more perlite if I understand.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 29, 2022)

I always cover mine completely with panda film this time originally I used the og earthbox covers. Never had any issues. I'm moving to a soil bed just to have MORE soil. Hopefully it is just as easy as sips.


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## weedstoner420 (Jan 29, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Does it get to the surface that way though? I guess maybe the water wicks it up with it?


That is a very good question...I really have no idea, I only mention it because even if you cover the top with plastic, there will still be a way for air to get into the soil, it won't be totally sealed off


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 29, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> That is a very good question...I really have no idea, I only mention it because even if you cover the top with plastic, there will still be a way for air to get into the soil, it won't be totally sealed off


Agreed. The roots can always get air from the bottom. Plus as the water level drops, I believe it can pull air in from the filler tube as well.


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## Tim Fox (Jan 29, 2022)

myke said:


> Ya thats it,so no fear of lack of air? Id seal around the stems with rockwool.
> Ok so cool I can seal it off then,thanks your pick helped.


I don't worry about air getting into the soil because of the air gap between the soil and the reservoir, the roots have an endless supply of oxygen in the air gap


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## Tim Fox (Jan 29, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Agreed. The roots can always get air from the bottom. Plus as the water level drops, I believe it can pull air in from the filler tube as well.


That's my understanding that air goes inand out of the filler tube especially as water is used and re added , on mine the air gap is open on the front, on the sips in the beginning of this tread I believe people were drilling holes in the sides of storage tins at the height of the air gap , and also using airstones in the res if they wanted


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## Tim Fox (Jan 30, 2022)

Nothing like water roots in a sip plants are rocking now


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 30, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> Nothing like water roots in a sip plants are rocking now View attachment 5077101


How about feeder roots at the surface? Lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 30, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> That's my understanding that air goes inand out of the filler tube especially as water is used and re added , on mine the air gap is open on the front, on the sips in the beginning of this tread I believe people were drilling holes in the sides of storage tins at the height of the air gap , and also using airstones in the res if they wanted


Also the earthbox is designed for air to go in the drain port and form an air pocket between the water and the soil. This way there will always be air in the root zone and water. In the initial pdf designs they have a water level view tube so you can see the water level but no drain. This meant no air gap except what could come through the filler tube. I belive a few of my home made sips suffered due to this small design flaw. Grantee the pdf is just a free source document that was made long ago so you cant ask too much of it.


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## Bignutes (Jan 30, 2022)

I have zero air gap, my wick only has holes in the bottom and it’s always submerged in reservoir. My plants grow like wildfire so ime an air gap isn’t needed. Air gap is just a byproduct of the design. Plants grown outside don’t have air gaps. Sips are about providing water as the plant requires, air gaps is bro science.


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## GenericEnigma (Jan 31, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> I have zero air gap, my wick only has holes in the bottom and it’s always submerged in reservoir. My plants grow like wildfire so ime an air gap isn’t needed. Air gap is just a byproduct of the design. Plants grown outside don’t have air gaps. Sips are about providing water as the plant requires, air gaps is bro science.


In your system, is there an overfill hole, or do you carefully maintain water level? Air pressure must equalize through the soil if no hole? I can see how this would work with holes only in the bottom of a wick. Is your wick bigger in diameter than those we typically see here?

I never thought much about an air gap, but I definitely don't want the water level at the bottom of my soil (I'm afraid it would get oversaturated). I left a good gap in case of sag (I don't use a wick, so no spacers--just the gravel of a wicking bed in my reservoir). This must be what you mean by "byproduct."


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 31, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> I have zero air gap, my wick only has holes in the bottom and it’s always submerged in reservoir. My plants grow like wildfire so ime an air gap isn’t needed. Air gap is just a byproduct of the design. Plants grown outside don’t have air gaps. Sips are about providing water as the plant requires, air gaps is bro science.


So in your opinion, roots don't need oxygen?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 31, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> I have zero air gap, my wick only has holes in the bottom and it’s always submerged in reservoir. My plants grow like wildfire so ime an air gap isn’t needed. Air gap is just a byproduct of the design. Plants grown outside don’t have air gaps. Sips are about providing water as the plant requires, air gaps is bro science.


Soil aeration is 100% a thing in nature... oxygen to the root zone is NOT bro science....


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 31, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Soil aeration is 100% a thing in nature... oxygen to the root zone is NOT bro science....


I wish it was. I could stop spending so much on air and water pumps for dwc.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 31, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I wish it was. I could stop spending so much on air and water pumps for dwc.


I was gonna say... who's going to tell the dwc and the aeroponics cats!???


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## Tim Fox (Jan 31, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I was gonna say... who's going to tell the dwc and the aeroponics cats!???


i know right,,, score for the win


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## Bignutes (Jan 31, 2022)

If there’s aeration in your soil its good. I’ve yet to se an air gap in outdoors.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 31, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> If there’s aeration in your soil its good. I’ve yet to se an air gap in outdoors.


Seems like a good way to get anaerobic conditions, imo.


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## Bignutes (Jan 31, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> In your system, is there an overfill hole, or do you carefully maintain water level? Air pressure must equalize through the soil if no hole? I can see how this would work with holes only in the bottom of a wick. Is your wick bigger in diameter than those we typically see here?
> 
> I never thought much about an air gap, but I definitely don't want the water level at the bottom of my soil (I'm afraid it would get oversaturated). I left a good gap in case of sag (I don't use a wick, so no spacers--just the gravel of a wicking bed in my reservoir). This must be what you mean by "byproduct."


The wick I run is about 10% of pot size, the roots are contained by the pot and wick, this prevents the roots from reaching an air gap


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## GenericEnigma (Jan 31, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> The wick I run is about 10% of pot size, the roots are contained by the pot and wick, this prevents the roots from reaching an air gap


Sure, I've wondered about all this.

The roots grow around the gravels in my air gap. I imagine they stay wet, and even contribute to the wicking. But my air gap has always been more functional (less soil saturation), and less chemical (oxygen to roots) in design intent! I also mulch my soil's surface with leaves, so plenty of breathing there.

I don't know how much oxygen roots need, but mine have gotten enough in 5-gallon pots without sub-irrigation. I guess that means I don't have a strong opinion about the air gap's absolute necessity, so I am grateful you shared what you've got.

I also don't pay much attention to aerobic/anaerobic soil conditions. My vermicompost is just a huge pile of everything, full of pill bugs! The only mixing it gets is when I bury vegetative refuse therein (I get lots of sprouts when I top-dress with it!).

Is your soil pretty standard stuff? Do you ever have issues with water wicking all the way up to the soil surface from the bottom of the wick? How deep is your soil?

I guess what I really want is to see your whole setup!


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## weedstoner420 (Jan 31, 2022)

Interesting... @Bignutes I just checked page 1 of your grow and yeah, no holes in the bottom of the soil section, only a few small holes in the bottom of the wick cup. Yet the commercial sips (Earthbox/Growbox) and most of the diy ones have a ton of holes in the bottom of the soil section...

I know the soil can get oxygen from above, and it doesn't really need that much (I suspect the excessive use of perlite/aeration in soil for cannabis may just be a crutch for growers who tend to over-water (which is also why a lot of people, including myself, gravitate towards sips)). Like, I have some houseplants in big containers with no drainage, and as long as they don't get too saturated/anaerobic, they're fine. And like you said, there is no air gap in nature.

So the air gap/holes at the bottom of the soil just serves to allow _more_ air to reach the lower layers of soil. Is it needed? No. Does it benefit the plants? Dunno, would be curious to find out...

Do you have an overflow/drain hole in the bottom section of your sips, to prevent the water line from getting above the bottom of the soil section? Or is that not even necessary if you don't have any exposed soil at the bottom of the container?


----------



## myke (Jan 31, 2022)

I think all the small holes in the inntainer are for drainage.Probably coming from an outside set up where rain could fill the inntainer. Not sure but makes sense.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 31, 2022)

myke said:


> I think all the small holes in the inntainer are for drainage.Probably coming from an outside set up where rain could fill the inntainer. Not sure but makes sense.


The earthbox and other generic grow box designs have them also, and they are designed to have a cover on the soil. I have for sure seen a lot of people have success without the holes though.


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 31, 2022)

So if the air gap isn't needed, why waste the space on nothing? If I diy a sip, do I leave out the air gap?


----------



## HydoDan (Jan 31, 2022)

I have a question.. Doesn't the oxygen in water count? Not being a smartass. Just curious..


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 31, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> So if the air gap isn't needed, why waste the space on nothing? If I diy a sip, do I leave out the air gap?


The inntainer design does not call for it and I built 6 of them to the exact specs. 90% of the time they worked great but I did end up having issues a few times with things (I think) just staying too wet.


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## GenericEnigma (Jan 31, 2022)

HydoDan said:


> I have a question.. Doesn't the oxygen in water count? Not being a smartass. Just curious..


Plants need actual O2 as well. It's used in breaking down sugars as part of cellular respiration. It's not part of the typical 6CO2 + 6H2O + light = C6H12O6 + 6O2 process to make sugars, so it's not commonly known. But when a plant needs to use its own sugars, O2 is needed (if I understand correctly).


----------



## GenericEnigma (Jan 31, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> So if the air gap isn't needed, why waste the space on nothing? If I diy a sip, do I leave out the air gap?


Seems like an extra gallon of soil might fit in there. 

I will be maintaining the air space in my wicking bed. As wet as the soil is, the last thing I need is more surface area contact between soil and water!

But for SIPs with wick baskets? Dunno. I would think the wick size and soil makeup might drive that decision.


----------



## myke (Jan 31, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> So if the air gap isn't needed, why waste the space on nothing? If I diy a sip, do I leave out the air gap?


No,air gap is there to stop water from hitting the inntainer and soaking the roots.
So instead of calling it an air gap.Call it a failsafe, to stop us stoners from overwatering lol.


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## myke (Jan 31, 2022)

Got the new sips filled and covered. Just went with old sheets to stop the bugs and the lids snap over good


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## Bignutes (Jan 31, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> In your system, is there an overfill hole, or do you carefully maintain water level? Air pressure must equalize through the soil if no hole? I can see how this would work with holes only in the bottom of a wick. Is your wick bigger in diameter than those we typically see here?
> 
> I never thought much about an air gap, but I definitely don't want the water level at the bottom of my soil (I'm afraid it would get oversaturated). I left a good gap in case of sag (I don't use a wick, so no spacers--just the gravel of a wicking bed in my reservoir). This must be what you mean by "byproduct."


I can see the level of my reservoir because it’s a clear tote. It’s covered with a black garbage bag so no light gets in. Peel the bag back when I fill it. There is a hole on the top that I use a funnel to fill. I wanted to maximize rez size for less frequent fillings. Wicks about typical size.

I can fill the 25 litre rez up completely and because the 5 gal pail sits on top of the rez the soil can never be submerged.


----------



## Bignutes (Jan 31, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> Sure, I've wondered about all this.
> 
> The roots grow around the gravels in my air gap. I imagine they stay wet, and even contribute to the wicking. But my air gap has always been more functional (less soil saturation), and less chemical (oxygen to roots) in design intent! I also mulch my soil's surface with leaves, so plenty of breathing there.
> 
> ...


I agree, the air gap is more functional to limit the wicking going on if I’ve got your design down. 

My soil is a combo of compost, loam, peat, aeration. The 5 gallon pails are 14.5” high. At the start of the grow water wicks all the way to the top of the pail. As I get into deep into flower the top 4 inches is not parched but somewhat dry.

If you want to set my setup look at my grow journal.


----------



## Bignutes (Jan 31, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Interesting... @Bignutes I just checked page 1 of your grow and yeah, no holes in the bottom of the soil section, only a few small holes in the bottom of the wick cup. Yet the commercial sips (Earthbox/Growbox) and most of the diy ones have a ton of holes in the bottom of the soil section...
> 
> I know the soil can get oxygen from above, and it doesn't really need that much (I suspect the excessive use of perlite/aeration in soil for cannabis may just be a crutch for growers who tend to over-water (which is also why a lot of people, including myself, gravitate towards sips)). Like, I have some houseplants in big containers with no drainage, and as long as they don't get too saturated/anaerobic, they're fine. And like you said, there is no air gap in nature.
> 
> ...


No overflow or drain hole, just stop filling as I can see into the clear reservoir tote, soil sits on top of high water point


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 31, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> I agree, the air gap is more functional to limit the wicking going on if I’ve got your design down.
> 
> My soil is a combo of compost, loam, peat, aeration. The 5 gallon pails are 14.5” high. At the start of the grow water wicks all the way to the top of the pail. As I get into deep into flower the top 4 inches is not parched but somewhat dry.
> 
> If you want to set my setup look at my grow journal.


Can you post a link? I'm on mobile nearly all the time and it doesn't show signatures or anything. I would love to check out your set up. I had made some 5 gallon SIPs just within other 5 gallon buckets. For me I ended up wanting to go with more soil. But did grow some very nice plants in them.


----------



## weedstoner420 (Jan 31, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Can you post a link? I'm on mobile nearly all the time and it doesn't show signatures or anything. I would love to check out your set up. I had made some 5 gallon SIPs just within other 5 gallon buckets. For me I ended up wanting to go with more soil. But did grow some very nice plants in them.


If you turn your phone/screen sideways it changes the format and shows people's signatures


----------



## myke (Jan 31, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> If you turn your phone/screen sideways it changes the format and shows people's signatures


I can’t see any sigs with my I phone regardless what position the screen is in.


----------



## Bignutes (Jan 31, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Can you post a link? I'm on mobile nearly all the time and it doesn't show signatures or anything. I would love to check out your set up. I had made some 5 gallon SIPs just within other 5 gallon buckets. For me I ended up wanting to go with more soil. But did grow some very nice plants in them.


Here it is:





SIP Grow


To start I used 25 litre totes for the reservoir, yoghurt containers for wick, 5 gallon pails for soil, garbage bag to cover SIP. Cost $12 per SIP. In the past my reservoirs were too small so these will triple the capacity of an old style.



www.rollitup.org





I had a similar experience. If I’d do it again I’d veg for less time in 5 gal.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 31, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> Here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I vegged mine way to long also


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 31, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> Here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks man! I'll check it out


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 31, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> Here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking good man! That looks like it's going to be some dank!


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## Bignutes (Jan 31, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Looking good man! That looks like it's going to be some dank!


Thanks man! Can’t wait to see how it is!


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 1, 2022)

Sup Sippers,
I’m about to start making some 30 gal sips and wanted to get y’all’s opinion. All this conversation about wicks has me thinking. I planned on building the SIPs similar to how Greenthumb had his set with the drainage pipes and vermiculite floor. See screenshots. Guess I would add a drainage/air gap/ overflow hole to save myself from myself. Thoughts? Comments? Concerns? To keep things interesting here is a pic of my last probiotic earthbox grow that is currently drying. Bodhi Sunshine Queen on left and Orange Wookie x 88G13 on right. Hope y’all are well~ Crunch


----------



## Xsan (Feb 1, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Sup Sippers,
> I’m about to start making some 30 gal sips and wanted to get y’all’s opinion. All this conversation about wicks has me thinking. I planned on building the SIPs similar to how Greenthumb had his set with the drainage pipes and vermiculite floor. See screenshots. Guess I would add a drainage/air gap/ overflow hole to save myself from myself. Thoughts? Comments? Concerns? To keep things interesting here is a pic of my last probiotic earthbox grow that is currently drying. Bodhi Sunshine Queen on left and Orange Wookie x 88G13 on right. Hope y’all are well~ CrunchView attachment 5078137View attachment 5078138View attachment 5078144


My fill tube is oversized, hoping it creates the air exchange


----------



## GenericEnigma (Feb 2, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Sup Sippers,
> I’m about to start making some 30 gal sips and wanted to get y’all’s opinion. All this conversation about wicks has me thinking. I planned on building the SIPs similar to how Greenthumb had his set with the drainage pipes and vermiculite floor. See screenshots. Guess I would add a drainage/air gap/ overflow hole to save myself from myself. Thoughts? Comments? Concerns? To keep things interesting here is a pic of my last probiotic earthbox grow that is currently drying. Bodhi Sunshine Queen on left and Orange Wookie x 88G13 on right. Hope y’all are well~ CrunchView attachment 5078137View attachment 5078138View attachment 5078144


This looks more like a wicking bed design!

I don't have a lot of experience with those, but I will say this: in that design type, the "wick" is huge (the size of the tote!). I would be worried that would lead to oversaturation, root rot, drowning. I am not saying it will! But I would worry about that.

I have heard of pea gravel or perlite used to wick water in this style. I have NOT seen those wicks perform. I use 3/4" river gravel and it works great (as long as the soil is mulched/covered). I only used that because it's what I had on-hand. In all of these designs, there is a weed mat layer between the wicking material and the soil.

But with folks in this thread having reported problems with too big of wicks, I would use caution!


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## Feo309 (Feb 2, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> This looks more like a wicking bed design!
> 
> I don't have a lot of experience with those, but I will say this: in that design type, the "wick" is huge (the size of the tote!). I would be worried that would lead to oversaturation, root rot, drowning. I am not saying it will! But I would worry about that.
> 
> ...


I’m going to try that design (what do we call it, a “total wick” design?) on my deck this summer with some cherry tomatoes and peppers. Mostly to block a neighbor’s view of our deck so they don’t see the cannabis I’ll be growing in other SIPs. My wife wants to plant trees along the fence line to block neighbor’s view, but that’s nothing to do with weed, she just doesn’t like her. 

Edit: Seven inches of snow here and more falling. Today the CBD plant comes down and in a couple days I’ll start a post-mortem on my problem SIP.


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## Feo309 (Feb 2, 2022)

Well, remember my posts about a dry corner in the container?

Umm, disregard that. The situation seems to have rectified itself in the last 10 days.

(Insert embarrassed smilie here.)

So, plant into a paper bag for now, may get briefly hung later today. Humidity in the basement is 40 percent, so I don’t want them getting crispy. Worked last time (my mantra).


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 2, 2022)

Ok guys, my res is smelling a lil funky. What to do?
Em-1?


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## myke (Feb 2, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Ok guys, my res is smelling a lil funky. What to do?
> Em-1?


Quit smelling it.lol.
Is there chlorine in your water?


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 2, 2022)

myke said:


> Quit smelling it.lol.
> Is there chlorine in your water?


I wasn't trying to. Lol.... I was just trying to look at the soil up close. 

No chlorine. I use ro water. I've been having worms falling out the overflow. Between them and their shit, I think it's funkin' up the res.


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## myke (Feb 2, 2022)

Add some,I can smell the chlorine from my tap when I fill mine.No problems and super cheap.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 2, 2022)

myke said:


> Add some,I can smell the chlorine from my tap when I fill mine.No problems and super cheap.


Bro, I use clorox bleach in my dwc res, and I love the shit, but no way in hell am I adding it to my sip res. I'm not saying that it can't be done, I know plants use a certain amount of chlorine, I just feel if it kills off the bad shit, then it kills off the good shit as well. There's gotta be an organic solution.


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## myke (Feb 2, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Bro, I use clorox bleach in my dwc res, and I love the shit, but no way in hell am I adding it to my sip res. I'm not saying that it can't be done, I know plants use a certain amount of chlorine, I just feel if it kills off the bad shit, then it kills off the good shit as well. There's gotta be an organic solution.


I still have all the organic mites in my soil,my worm bin gets tap water.
But I understand,should be an organic solution.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 2, 2022)

myke said:


> I still have all the organic mites in my soil,my worm bin gets tap water.
> But I understand,should be an organic solution.


Labs maybe?


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## myke (Feb 2, 2022)

Now everybody is running to their sips to smell the rez lol


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 2, 2022)

myke said:


> Now everybody is running to their sips to smell the rez lol


I'm sure nobody else's is funky, but yea, I probably would be too. Lol


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 2, 2022)

The plant looks fine though. Almost too good. It makes me worry. Lol


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## GrassBurner (Feb 2, 2022)

Hell if the plant looks good don't sweat it  I'm sure everyone's res smells a little funky. As long as it doesn't smell like a dead animal in the summer I wouldn't worry.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 2, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Hell if the plant looks good don't sweat it  I'm sure everyone's res smells a little funky. As long as it doesn't smell like a dead animal in the summer I wouldn't worry.


Yea... it's kinda getting that smell. More sewer like actually. That's why I'm worried. Worm shit in the res.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 2, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> The plant looks fine though. Almost too good. It makes me worry. Lol


If you are really worried about it I would let it dry out and maybe if you have a drain hole you can tilt it and run some clean water through maybe with just a little bleach (this might be a huge pain in the ass) but yeah if they plant looks fine maybe just watch it.


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## weedstoner420 (Feb 2, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Ok guys, my res is smelling a lil funky. What to do?
> Em-1?


I feel like em-1 or labs are the two organic things people would recommend to use in your situation.

I used em-1 once, not sure if it made a difference. If anything I think it may have smelled more with the em-1, since that stuff has a kinda sick-sweet vinegar smell. I'm also thinking like, anaerobic bacteria don't really thrive in aerobic environments, and vice versa...so whatever might be growing down in the res, will it ever actually make it up into the soil where most of your roots and soil food web are...?

You're doing no-till, right? Or at least some kind of succession planting? My current grow is the first one where I'm cutting one plant down and putting another one in, leaving the dead roots in the res. I was contemplating ordering another bottle of em-1, so if you use it please report back how it works for ya.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 2, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> I feel like em-1 or labs are the two organic things people would recommend to use in your situation.
> 
> I used em-1 once, not sure if it made a difference. If anything I think it may have smelled more with the em-1, since that stuff has a kinda sick-sweet vinegar smell. I'm also thinking like, anaerobic bacteria don't really thrive in aerobic environments, and vice versa...so whatever might be growing down in the res, will it ever actually make it up into the soil where most of your roots and soil food web are...?
> 
> You're doing no-till, right? Or at least some kind of succession planting? My current grow is the first one where I'm cutting one plant down and putting another one in, leaving the dead roots in the res. I was contemplating ordering another bottle of em-1, so if you use it please report back how it works for ya.


Yea this is my first no till run. I left the roots in after the last run, and grew a cover crop for a while. 

Ok, so I'm gonna order some em1. I won't use it unless I start seeing something that makes me think I should.


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 2, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Ok guys, my res is smelling a lil funky. What to do?
> Em-1?


Or LABS or Photosynthesis +


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 2, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Or LABS or Photosynthesis +


Damnit, I just ordered the em1. Lol
Would I just add the labs to the res?


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 2, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Or LABS or Photosynthesis +


I use Em1 or LABS with every watering and I don’t have any funky smells in the reservoir. Been using LABS more recently because it has more variety of bacteria than em1 and its a free input. I have some DIY Photosynthesis + cooking but it stinks to high heaven. Supposed to be great stuff, but dang!


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 2, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Damnit, I just ordered the em1. Lol
> Would I just add the labs to the res?


Yes. I do 3/4 tsp per gal


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 2, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Yes. I do 3/4 tsp per gal


You can always use the em1 to make some homemade bokashi or Grokashi


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 2, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> I use Em1 or LABS with every watering and I don’t have any funky smells in the reservoir. Been using LABS more recently because it has more variety of bacteria than em1 and its a free input. I have some DIY Photosynthesis + cooking but it stinks to high heaven. Supposed to be great stuff, but dang!


I'm gonna use em1 now since I have some coming. At what rate do you use it?


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 2, 2022)

I'll make some LABS when the em1 runs out. I only got the 16oz. bottle, so it won't be long.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 2, 2022)

This is what she looks like right now.....



But I'm not sure how long the res has smelled like that. I just refilled it yesterday morning.


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 2, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I'm gonna use em1 now since I have some coming. At what rate do you use it?


1 oz per gallon


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 2, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> 1 oz per gallon


Damn. That's only 8 waterings.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 2, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Damn. That's only 8 waterings.


You can expand it using a little of the em 1 some molasses, water and time.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 2, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Damn. That's only 8 waterings.


Here is a link


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 2, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Here is a link


Ahhhh..... thank you. That's useful info.


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 2, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Damn. That's only 8 waterings.


You can always expand it, but that takes time.


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 2, 2022)

This video is super helpful:


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## Bignutes (Feb 2, 2022)

I used lab in my rez, it gets funky after a while but I also used tap water so not sure if the chlorine killed off the good guys. It eventually got slimy. I had to wait till it was empty and do a clean out with vinegar. My sips are two containers though so it easy to separate the two to work on. Also the reason I went with 5 gal of soil, I have a hard time moving heavy objects. 

You have an overflow? If so rinse with vinegar and flush.


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## Xsan (Feb 3, 2022)

I'm in the same boat as @CrunchBerries and have been running em1 with tap water. Our county doesnt use chlorine they use the other one, chloramine I believe, which doesn't evaporate out the same way chlorine does if I remember correctly. I do typically let my tap water sit out for about a week before use just because realistically. No funky smell in my rez. Only issue I am seeing on my plant is wind burn from the fan.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 3, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> I used lab in my rez, it gets funky after a while but I also used tap water so not sure if the chlorine killed off the good guys. It eventually got slimy. I had to wait till it was empty and do a clean out with vinegar. My sips are two containers though so it easy to separate the two to work on. Also the reason I went with 5 gal of soil, I have a hard time moving heavy objects.
> 
> You have an overflow? If so rinse with vinegar and flush.


I have an earthbox. If have to tip it over to get it out. I'm gonna use the em1 I ordered. I'll see if that helps at all, but thanks for the info.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 3, 2022)

Xsan said:


> I'm in the same boat as @CrunchBerries and have been running em1 with tap water. Our county doesnt use chlorine they use the other one, chloramine I believe, which doesn't evaporate out the same way chlorine does if I remember correctly. I do typically let my tap water sit out for about a week before use just because realistically. No funky smell in my rez. Only issue I am seeing on my plant is wind burn from the fan.


Do you run yours no till?


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 3, 2022)

The problem I'm having with tap water and chlorine, is I'm running no till. I'm afraid of build up of calcium, in my soil, from the tap water, and I'm afraid of killing off beneficial soil microbes by adding chlorine. I don't believe the soil will get better over time, if I keep adding chlorine to the res. If I was recycling soil, then it probably wouldn't hurt, which is probably going to be the way I go from here on out. I feel like the em1 and labs, is just going to be like running hydroguard in hydro.


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 3, 2022)

Xsan said:


> I'm in the same boat as @CrunchBerries and have been running em1 with tap water. Our county doesnt use chlorine they use the other one, chloramine I believe, which doesn't evaporate out the same way chlorine does if I remember correctly. I do typically let my tap water sit out for about a week before use just because realistically. No funky smell in my rez. Only issue I am seeing on my plant is wind burn from the fan.


I started adding a tsp of molasses before bubbling a 5 gal bucket. The molasses will help neutralize the chloramine. And you get the added benefit of food for your microbes.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 3, 2022)

Well I just looked in on her again this morning. She still looks good, and the res is still stanky. Lol 
Maybe I'm looking to deep into this, but this is my first time running no till, and I want it to go smooth.


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## GrassBurner (Feb 3, 2022)

Don't be like the guy that called the hazmat company I worked for. Dude is hauling automotive paint, swears it's leaking. As soon as I walk into the trailer, I tell the guys it's not leaking, automotive paint is just strong. 8 hours and $15k later, we have every pallet unloaded, zero leaks


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 3, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Don't be like the guy that called the hazmat company I worked for. Dude is hauling automotive paint, swears it's leaking. As soon as I walk into the trailer, I tell the guys it's not leaking, automotive paint is just strong. 8 hours and $15k later, we have every pallet unloaded, zero leaks


Lol I don't think I would've worried until I seen the paint leaking.


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## myke (Feb 3, 2022)

Can you flush it? Just put a tray under and slowly run new water through.


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## GrassBurner (Feb 3, 2022)

I never even thought about the em1 in the reservoir. I've got a big bottle from Build A Soil just sitting around. Grabbed a 3 pack that had em1, Dr zymes, and some kind of mint cleaner. Maybe I'll give them a little dose.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 3, 2022)

myke said:


> Can you flush it? Just put a tray under and slowly run new water through.


I don't know if I'm going to need to. Though it's smelling funky, I'm not seeing anything making me think that it needs to be flushed. Even if I did flush, I would imagine the bacteria is already present in large #s.


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## myke (Feb 3, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I don't know if I'm going to need to. Though it's smelling funky, I'm not seeing anything making me think that it needs to be flushed. Even if I did flush, I would imagine the bacteria is already present in large #s.


Give you some peace of mind anyway if you flushed it.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 3, 2022)

myke said:


> Give you some peace of mind anyway if you flushed it.


Yea, that it would. Eb might be difficult to flush with a scrogged plant though. I might try tonight just for the hell of it.


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## raggyb (Feb 3, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I don't know if I'm going to need to. Though it's smelling funky, I'm not seeing anything making me think that it needs to be flushed. Even if I did flush, I would imagine the bacteria is already present in large #s.


do you have bubblers? if it smells sewery, that could be dead worms or it could be anaerobic I think. If adding Labs or EM1, I'm not sure but I thought someone said it works in an anaerobic way. So I would think having bubblers with those would be counterproductive. But without EM1 or Labs, maybe bubblers would help reduce the funk?


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 3, 2022)

raggyb said:


> do you have bubblers? if it smells sewery, that could be dead worms or it could be anaerobic I think. If adding Labs or EM1, I'm not sure but I thought someone said it works in an anaerobic way. So I would think having bubblers with those would be counterproductive. But without EM1 or Labs, maybe bubblers would help reduce the funk?


I haven't tried bubbles, but I might if nothing else works.


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## weedstoner420 (Feb 3, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea, that it would. Eb might be difficult to flush with a scrogged plant though. I might try tonight just for the hell of it.


Would a wet vac hose fit down the filler tube? I've vacuumed out the res of my growboxes like that before, it's a little easier to get to tho because the overflow and fill holes are the same hole...


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## Xsan (Feb 3, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> I never even thought about the em1 in the reservoir. I've got a big bottle from Build A Soil just sitting around. Grabbed a 3 pack that had em1, Dr zymes, and some kind of mint cleaner. Maybe I'll give them a little dose.



I believe it has a short shelf life so depending on how long you had it, the effectiveness may have degraded


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## GrassBurner (Feb 3, 2022)

I think I've had it about a month


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## Xsan (Feb 3, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> I think I've had it about a month



Should be good


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 3, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> I think I've had it about a month


There should be an expiration date on the bottle somewhere.


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## weedstoner420 (Feb 3, 2022)

Ah, a fresh page, upon which to SIP...

New generation starting up in the growboxes: chopped the back left plant the other day, top dressed that area with some dry ferts and worm castings, and planted a lil seedling in that spot. The tent is on 12/12 so hopefully it grows enough side branches to clone...these are all bagseeds so no strain names, sorry.

I also stuck a tiny Crnklz clone in there recently. Week 2 b/w week 14:


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 3, 2022)

Ok... so my res is empty. I looked down the filler tube, and I can see what looks like soil, and I believe I see at least 1 dead worm. Does anyone know if the em1 can help with that? Or do I need to empty the res?


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## weedstoner420 (Feb 4, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Ok... so my res is empty. I looked down the filler tube, and I can see what looks like soil, and I believe I see at least 1 dead worm. Does anyone know if the em1 can help with that? Or do I need to empty the res?


https://www.the-compost-gardener.com/em-1.html here's an interesting read on it. Not a definitive answer but sounds promising at least. Some amount of dirt and dead bugs in the res is unavoidable...


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 4, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> https://www.the-compost-gardener.com/em-1.html here's an interesting read on it. Not a definitive answer but sounds promising at least. Some amount of dirt and dead bugs in the res is unavoidable...


Cool man, thanks. I'm not worried about the soil and bugs in the res, but the worms are at least a concern right now. My plant still looks good though.


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## myke (Feb 4, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Cool man, thanks. I'm not worried about the soil and bugs in the res, but the worms are at least a concern right now. My plant still looks good though.


If you fill to overflow the dead worm should float out no?


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 4, 2022)

myke said:


> If you fill to overflow the dead worm should float out no?


Yea it might just do that. I was just hoping there was a way to nullify the decaying worm with just microbes. No matter the outcome, when this run is over, I'm putting in landscape fabric over the soil deck.


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 4, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea it might just do that. I was just hoping there was a way to nullify the decaying worm with just microbes. No matter the outcome, when this run is over, I'm putting in landscape fabric over the soil deck.


I had 2 earthboxes that were locked and loaded, ready for planting. We then decided to move and they sat for months before I could plant. I had added fresh ewc and some Colorado worm casting. Both of which had worms and cocoons. Worm populations exploded in both sips. Fast forward to dump day and reset after a harvest. When I dumped the boxes there were tons of soil and worms just having a good old time in the reservoir. Some dead, but most thriving. I keep my reservoir topped at all times so they were definitely submerged. I wonder if they traveled up and down from soil to res and vice versa?Or just found a spot in the res with a decent amount of soil and did what worms do? Food for thought. I believe my res stays clean because I add a microbial inoculate at every watering.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 4, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> I had 2 earthboxes that were locked and loaded, ready for planting. We then decided to move and they sat for months before I could plant. I had added fresh ewc and some Colorado worm casting. Both of which had worms and cocoons. Worm populations exploded in both sips. Fast forward to dump day and reset after a harvest. When I dumped the boxes there were tons of soil and worms just having a good old time in the reservoir. Some dead, but most thriving. I keep my reservoir topped at all times so they were definitely submerged. I wonder if they traveled up and down from soil to res and vice versa?Or just found a spot in the res with a decent amount of soil and did what worms do? Food for thought. I believe my res stays clean because I add a microbial inoculate at every watering.


Ok, that's along the lines of something that I wanted to hear. I'll be using em1 and labs from here on out. Thanks for the info.


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 4, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> I had 2 earthboxes that were locked and loaded, ready for planting. We then decided to move and they sat for months before I could plant. I had added fresh ewc and some Colorado worm casting. Both of which had worms and cocoons. Worm populations exploded in both sips. Fast forward to dump day and reset after a harvest. When I dumped the boxes there were tons of soil and worms just having a good old time in the reservoir. Some dead, but most thriving. I keep my reservoir topped at all times so they were definitely submerged. I wonder if they traveled up and down from soil to res and vice versa?Or just found a spot in the res with a decent amount of soil and did what worms do? Food for thought. I believe my res stays clean because I add a microbial inoculate at every watering.





Hollatchaboy said:


> Ok, that's along the lines of something that I wanted to hear. I'll be using em1 and labs from here on out. Thanks for the info.


There were times when I would over fill the res and a couple healthy worms would come floating out.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 4, 2022)

With a lot of worms your sip will eventually just become pretty much all worm castings which can be very small and go through the screens in earthboxes I think.


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## GrassBurner (Feb 4, 2022)

Well I lied, it's EM5 from Build a soil that I have, smoke another one right  
I think I'm gonna convert my 4x4 tent to the food storage container sips. The plants in them now are doing much better than i had hoped for. My guess is the ful-power helping break down dry ammendments quicker, along with Neptune's Harvest and Liquid Dr Earth Fertilizer, the plants are getting the nutrition they need from 3 gallons of soil. The plants are really stacking buds nicely. I'll get some pictures shortly. 
Will cost around $300 to have enough containers and lids to build 16 sips. Then I'll need a stick of white pvc for the wicks, and black pvc for the fill tube. 
4x4 tent is fixing to come open, so I popped 15 seeds last night. I'm planning on making a seed run with a bunch of different genetics. I planted 3 regular seeds of each of the following strains: Pineapple Fields (Dynasty), PHK bx (AK Bean Brains) , Candyland (Friend) , and Rainbow Sherbert x Race Fuel (Friend) . Planted 1 fem seed of each of the following strains: GG4 (GG Genetics), AK47 (Serious Seeds), and Dracarys (Katsu). 
With each seed in its own sip, moving males to their own tent will be a breeze. I have to be a little more active with such small sips, but its nothing crazy. I spend a little more on nutrients and supplements, but its still economical.


----------



## Xsan (Feb 4, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> There should be an expiration date on the bottle somewhere.



Good call, does the shelf life get short once its opened or expanded? I thought I read something about it somewhere in greens thread?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Feb 4, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> There were times when I would over fill the res and a couple healthy worms would come floating out.


Yea I've had that happen as well. I don't believe they drown, so I don't mind them in the res, as long as they don't die in there


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## Xsan (Feb 4, 2022)

I just checked the googlewebs and if you activate(expand) it then it should be used within 30-60 days. Sorry for any false alarms or confusion.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 4, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Well I lied, it's EM5 from Build a soil that I have, smoke another one right
> I think I'm gonna convert my 4x4 tent to the food storage container sips. The plants in them now are doing much better than i had hoped for. My guess is the ful-power helping break down dry ammendments quicker, along with Neptune's Harvest and Liquid Dr Earth Fertilizer, the plants are getting the nutrition they need from 3 gallons of soil. The plants are really stacking buds nicely. I'll get some pictures shortly.
> Will cost around $300 to have enough containers and lids to build 16 sips. Then I'll need a stick of white pvc for the wicks, and black pvc for the fill tube.
> 4x4 tent is fixing to come open, so I popped 15 seeds last night. I'm planning on making a seed run with a bunch of different genetics. I planted 3 regular seeds of each of the following strains: Pineapple Fields (Dynasty), PHK bx (AK Bean Brains) , Candyland (Friend) , and Rainbow Sherbert x Race Fuel (Friend) . Planted 1 fem seed of each of the following strains: GG4 (GG Genetics), AK47 (Serious Seeds), and Dracarys (Katsu).
> With each seed in its own sip, moving males to their own tent will be a breeze. I have to be a little more active with such small sips, but its nothing crazy. I spend a little more on nutrients and supplements, but its still economical.


So you use em5 in the res?

Edit: nevermind. I see you said you didn't use it yet.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 7, 2022)

Ok, so I looked down the fill tube early this morning. The res was completely empty,, all I could see, was a worm wiggling around. I filled the res and went to work. I get home tonight, there was 5 worms in the drain tray, in a lil pool of water. I put my nose to the res, no smell. Plant is looking ok I think.


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## myke (Feb 7, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Ok, so I looked down the fill tube early this morning. The res was completely empty,, all I could see, was a worm wiggling around. I filled the res and went to work. I get home tonight, there was 5 worms in the drain tray, in a lil pool of water. I put my nose to the res, no smell. Plant is looking ok I think.
> 
> View attachment 5081813


So my answer was right then when I said quit looking in the rez lol,
Remember growing organic means being lazy.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 7, 2022)

myke said:


> So my answer was right then when I said quit looking in the rez lol,
> Remember growing organic means being lazy.


Honestly I'm not really sweating it. Whatever happens, happens. I'm just more curious about doing this run no till. I just want to get that part right. I've been feeding 3/4 cup of craft blend,ewc, kashi weekly. I'm hoping that's been enough, cuz today is day 1 of flip. Lol


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 7, 2022)

myke said:


> So my answer was right then when I said quit looking in the rez lol,
> Remember growing organic means being lazy.


And yes, your answer was right. I'll stop looking in the res. Lol


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## Kayaganja (Feb 7, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea it might just do that. I was just hoping there was a way to nullify the decaying worm with just microbes. No matter the outcome, when this run is over, I'm putting in landscape fabric over the soil deck.


Hey boss the fabric won’t help much, I got one in me earthbox and the guys just crawl out of the overflow hole , if I water til tops


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 8, 2022)

Kayaganja said:


> Hey boss the fabric won’t help much, I got one in me earthbox and the guys just crawl out of the overflow hole , if I water til tops


So you get worms in your res? I believe they would just go thru the wicks anyways. I'm starting to think that it may not be so bad. I read lst night that worms can live for a couple weeks submerged, as long as the water has some oxygen. So, maybe another reason for the air gap?


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## Kayaganja (Feb 8, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> So you get worms in your res? I believe they would just go thru the wicks anyways. I'm starting to think that it may not be so bad. I read lst night that worms can live for a couple weeks submerged, as long as the water has some oxygen. So, maybe another reason for the air gap?


Yes boss one way or another they get in the res ,


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 8, 2022)

Kayaganja said:


> Yes boss one way or another they get in the res ,


So I'm guessing you don't get any funkiness in your res as a result of the worms?


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## Kayaganja (Feb 8, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> So I'm guessing you don't get any funkiness in your res as a result of the worms?


The earthbox doesn’t get funky, but the 5and7gallon buckets do ,


----------



## GrassBurner (Feb 8, 2022)

I usually have hundreds of worms in the res after each run. Never noticed anything but that good soil smell.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 8, 2022)

Kayaganja said:


> The earthbox doesn’t get funky, but the 5and7gallon buckets do ,


Do you just let them stay funky, or do you have to do something for it?


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 8, 2022)

So do I have to ph the water after adding the em1? It's pretty low ph, even less after activating.


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 8, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> So do I have to ph the water after adding the em1? It's pretty low ph, even less after activating.


I never ph anything, but I do have a layer of oyster shell flour to buffer ph. The idea is that by having different layers of acidic and alkaline soils, plants can take what they want when they want. Some nutrients are more readily available at a certain ph. Hope this helps.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 8, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> I never ph anything, but I do have a layer of oyster shell flour to buffer ph. The idea is that by having different layers of acidic and alkaline soils, plants can take what they want when they want. Some nutrients are more readily available at a certain ph. Hope this helps.


I used bas 3.0 initially. I just top dress with bas craft blend and ewc. I've not ph'd my waterings, because they've not needed it. I'm just figuring with such a low ph of the em1, that it's gonna be too much of a swing.


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 8, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I used bas 3.0 initially. I just top dress with bas craft blend and ewc. I've not ph'd my waterings, because they've not needed it. I'm just figuring with such a low ph of the em1, that it's gonna be too much of a swing.


Does the 3.0 have OSF or Dolomite lime?


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 8, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Does the 3.0 have OSF or Dolomite lime?




I don't believe so.


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## Xsan (Feb 8, 2022)

In running 3.0, craft blend, kashi with some bus and cowoco and em1, have not checked ph


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 8, 2022)

Xsan said:


> In running 3.0, craft blend, kashi with some bus and cowoco and em1, have not checked ph


Did you activate your em1, or do you use just use the concentrate?


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## Xsan (Feb 8, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Did you activate your em1, or do you use just use the concentrate?


Just been using the concentrate


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 8, 2022)

Xsan said:


> Just been using the concentrate


Cool man. Thanks for the info.


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## Xsan (Feb 8, 2022)

Anytime


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## Kayaganja (Feb 9, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Do you just let them stay funky, or do you have to do something for it?


I know now that the roots take along time to get down there ,so the water is sitting longer in the res , even thu I put LABS in there i’v Just start next run will put very little water in the res to start with, til the roots kind of find their way down. That’s for 5-7 gallons


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 9, 2022)

Kayaganja said:


> I know now that the roots take along time to get down there ,so the water is sitting longer in the res , even thu I put LABS in there i’v Just start next run will put very little water in the res to start with, til the roots kind of find their way down.


I get it. The water gets funky if it sits too long. I may look into doing the same through veg.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 9, 2022)

So I filled the res Monday morning. It's still not empty, but probably will be tomorrow morning. Still no smell. I don't get it. I'm not complaining though. Lol
I got the em1 yesterday. I might try doing the first few res fills, with the em1 concentrated. I need to try to figure out how I want to go about activating it.


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## Xsan (Feb 9, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> So I filled the res Monday morning. It's still not empty, but probably will be tomorrow morning. Still no smell. I don't get it. I'm not complaining though. Lol
> I got the em1 yesterday. I might try doing the first few res fills, with the em1 concentrated. I need to try to figure out how I want to go about activating it.



@CrunchBerries was successful activating it. I tried a failed. Will probably try again soon. But its molasses, em1 and hot water. There is a few videos out on it as well


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 9, 2022)

Xsan said:


> @CrunchBerries was successful activating it. I tried a failed. Will probably try again soon. But its molasses, em1 and hot water. There is a few videos out on it as well


Yea I watched the videos. I'm just trying to decide how I'm going to keep it at 86° for a week.


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 9, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea I watched the videos. I'm just trying to decide how I'm going to keep it at 86° for a week.


You don’t have to keep it at 86 degrees for a week. Get you some of those ph strips that get down pretty low and check it periodically. My first time I used organic molasses which I found out has a ph buffer that will either take longer or you can add double the molasses I think to get the ph down. It’s in my notes somewhere. Here is the best video I found from Teraganix. 



You can also call Teraganix and ask them all sorts of random questions like myself.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 10, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> You don’t have to keep it at 86 degrees for a week. Get you some of those ph strips that get down pretty low and check it periodically. My first time I used organic molasses which I found out has a ph buffer that will either take longer or you can add double the molasses I think to get the ph down. It’s in my notes somewhere. Here is the best video I found from Teraganix.
> 
> 
> 
> You can also call Teraganix and ask them all sorts of random questions like myself.


Cool, thanks man!


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## Kayaganja (Feb 10, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea I watched the videos. I'm just trying to decide how I'm going to keep it at 86° for a week.


When I do it , I do it in the grow space, the temperature is just right , make me LAB in there too , never failed two years now .


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 10, 2022)

Kayaganja said:


> When I do it , I do it in the grow space, the temperature is just right , make me LAB in there too , never failed two years now .


Good call. I'll try that too. Good lookin out.


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## Kayaganja (Feb 10, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Good call. I'll try that too. Good lookin out.


We are in the boat , ideas and learning from each other, is the only way forward


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 10, 2022)

Kayaganja said:


> We are in the boat , ideas and learning from each other, is the only way forward


Agreed. Thanks for the info. What kind of molasses do you use?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 10, 2022)

Xsan said:


> @CrunchBerries was successful activating it. I tried a failed. Will probably try again soon. But its molasses, em1 and hot water. There is a few videos out on it as well


You also need to keep it at temp for about a week. I used a cooler with a seed heating mat inside to maintain temps.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 10, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Agreed. Thanks for the info. What kind of molasses do you use?


Black strap molasses no sulfur added!


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 10, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Black strap molasses no sulfur added!


So just the same molasses as used for compost tea?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 10, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> So just the same molasses as used for compost tea?


Yep, you are basically doing the same thing, feeding microbes


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 10, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yep, you are basically doing the same thing, feeding microbes


For sure. It should be easy then.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 10, 2022)

For heating I have also seen people use an adjustable aquarium heater inside of a small cooler with a little water in the bottom covering the aquarium heater.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 10, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> For heating I have also seen people use an adjustable aquarium heater inside of a small cooler with a little water in the bottom covering the aquarium heater.


Yea I seen that on the video. I was trying to do the activation with what I already have. I don't have a cooler or aquarium heater, so I was hoping to figure out a different way. In my tent should work. I hope. Lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 10, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea I seen that on the video. I was trying to do the activation with what I already have. I don't have a cooler or aquarium heater, so I was hoping to figure out a different way. In my tent should work. I hope. Lol


Yeah if your tent has decently high temps just put the bottle in a trash bag or something to keep it away from the light and you should be good to go! Make sure to leave some space in your bottle for gas expansion also. Good luck man!


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## Kayaganja (Feb 10, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Agreed. Thanks for the info. What kind of molasses do you use?


 Got this in September 2020 use outdoor and greenhouse too, paid 137$ they bring to the door , 20kg


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## Kayaganja (Feb 10, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yeah if your tent has decently high temps just put the bottle in a trash bag or something to keep it away from the light and you should be good to go! Make sure to leave some space in your bottle for gas expansion also. Good luck man!


I cover it with dark fabric on the top and old newspapers on the sides


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 10, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Yeah if your tent has decently high temps just put the bottle in a trash bag or something to keep it away from the light and you should be good to go! Make sure to leave some space in your bottle for gas expansion also. Good luck man!


Thanks man. I'll probably need it. Lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 10, 2022)

Kayaganja said:


> I cover it with dark fabric on the top and old newspapers on the sides


Is the tube like a make shift airlock for gas to get out?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 10, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Thanks man. I'll probably need it. Lol


Nah it's super easy! Just get the environment correct and the microbes will do the work!


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## Kayaganja (Feb 10, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Is the tube like a make shift airlock for gas to get out?


Yes boss that’s what it is , so in the grow room the gases are used up too.


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## Xsan (Feb 10, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> For heating I have also seen people use an adjustable aquarium heater inside of a small cooler with a little water in the bottom covering the aquarium heater.



I have tried germinating like that in the past....meh


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 10, 2022)

Xsan said:


> I have tried germinating like that in the past....meh


You tried germinating seeds like that or expanding the em1 microbes? I have not tried this method for expanding em1 which is what we were talking about. Seems like over kill to me


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## Xsan (Feb 10, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> You tried germinating seeds like that or expanding the em1 microbes? I have not tried this method for expanding em1 which is what we were talking about. Seems like over kill to me



I tried germinating seeds. Didn't seem to keep things all that warm so I'm not sure if it would work to expand the em1


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## Hash Hound (Feb 12, 2022)

Toxic Cookies hempy with Remo Nutrients chopped today at 9 weeks.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 12, 2022)

So I put em1 in my res the day before yesterday, the top growth got a lil light in color, imo.



I got home today and I put my nose by the res..... it stank again. Lol


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## Kayaganja (Feb 12, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> So I put em1 in my res the day before yesterday, the top growth got a lil light in color, imo.
> 
> View attachment 5084407
> 
> I got home today and I put my nose by the res..... it stank again. Lol


Boss you aren’t smoking bong with that water , let’s forget about the res water smell lol , I noticed too me leaves get lighter too ,


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 12, 2022)

Kayaganja said:


> Boss you aren’t smoking bong with that water , let’s forget about the res water smell lol , I noticed too me leaves get lighter too ,


Lol I can't help it. I'm ocd. Lol


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 12, 2022)

Kayaganja said:


> Boss you aren’t smoking bong with that water , let’s forget about the res water smell lol , I noticed too me leaves get lighter too ,


Seriously though, what you think is the culprit? Ph?


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## Hash Hound (Feb 12, 2022)

SIP fed with wicks the whole grow. 2g Black Gold Organic with 2 strips from old grow bags for the wicks.
Fed with Blue Planet 3part high yield about a quart every day or two 3 times and then plain water, repeat.

My own strain Puta Blanca at 7 weeks.


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## Bignutes (Feb 12, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea I watched the videos. I'm just trying to decide how I'm going to keep it at 86° for a week.


Check your oven out, if I keep the oven light on and door closed it keeps it at 86F


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## Xsan (Feb 12, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Seriously though, what you think is the culprit? Ph?


Maybe the ph swing? I've been running it since veg but I don't think mine is lighter


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## Feo309 (Feb 13, 2022)

Harvested a Strawberry Nuggets a couple days ago. Decided to just re-amend the soil in place and plant a cover crop until the next grow (may be a couple months, gotta do some traveling for family stuff).

Had to cut the main root with a small saw. Plant was drinking a gallon a day.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 14, 2022)

Week 1 done. She's stretching like a bungee cord. I'm gonna have to add another scrog before she's done.


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## Gadget's (Feb 17, 2022)

Serverchris said:


> Since you used a smartpot I have an easy fix for you. Get a container that the smartpot will fit in that is about 5 or 6 inches deep. Fill that container with perlite to about 4 or 5 inches tall. Water the container leaving about 1 inch of the perlite up top dry not sitting in the water. Put your smartpot on the bed of perlite and your done. Water the perlite from now on unless you want to give a tea or something, if so water at the top of the smartpot. Been doing it this way for awhile now but I use 10 gallon smart pots and bus tubs for a container.


Do you have pictures? I am trying to make a sub irrigated system for my 3gal smart pots. I tried using a perlite wicking system with a 3gal bucket reservoir, but it didn't work. I think the plant needed to root through the smart pot, to reach the perlite "wick" that was absorbing the water.


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 18, 2022)

Gadget's said:


> Do you have pictures? I am trying to make a sub irrigated system for my 3gal smart pots. I tried using a perlite wicking system with a 3gal bucket reservoir, but it didn't work. I think the plant needed to root through the smart pot, to reach the perlite "wick" that was absorbing the water.


Hey bud,
There are tons of pictures at the beginning of this thread detailing what you are trying to set up. Check it out!


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## myke (Feb 18, 2022)

Gadget's said:


> Do you have pictures? I am trying to make a sub irrigated system for my 3gal smart pots. I tried using a perlite wicking system with a 3gal bucket reservoir, but it didn't work. I think the plant needed to root through the smart pot, to reach the perlite "wick" that was absorbing the water.


You need a wick like a 3" net pot attached or a layer of perlite in the bottom of grow bag so it can sit in the water.


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## Axion42 (Feb 18, 2022)

Hello everyone. I'm considering building a couple SIP planters for my next grow, I'm used to growing with RDWC and using a chiller to keep water temps down. Do I need to refill the sip res with cold water? Also if I'm using liquid nutes I'm going to want to mix nutes and pH before adding to res or should I top feed? I'm new to any soil/medium grows.


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## myke (Feb 18, 2022)

Axion42 said:


> Hello everyone. I'm considering building a couple SIP planters for my next grow, I'm used to growing with RDWC and using a chiller to keep water temps down. Do I need to refill the sip res with cold water? Also if I'm using liquid nutes I'm going to want to mix nutes and pH before adding to res or should I top feed? I'm new to any soil/medium grows.


Top feed and regular temp water.


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## Axion42 (Feb 18, 2022)

myke said:


> Top feed and regular temp water.


Cool thanks for the reply Myke, glad to still see you're around. What type of medium should I use? Soil or coco? Any thoughts on pros/cons?


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## myke (Feb 19, 2022)

Axion42 said:


> Cool thanks for the reply Myke, glad to still see you're around. What type of medium should I use? Soil or coco? Any thoughts on pros/cons?


Salts and Sips are new to me,Ive only added a bit of salt to get over the finish line.

I came from RDWC also,switching to sips and organic had me thinking id have to aerate the water ph etc.None of the above.Make a simple organic mix ,let cook and plant. Its amazing really just how simple it is.

I suggest you give it a try. Promix and some dry food a splash of compost and your off.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 19, 2022)

myke said:


> Salts and Sips are new to me,Ive only added a bit of salt to get over the finish line.
> 
> I came from RDWC also,switching to sips and organic had me thinking id have to aerate the water ph etc.None of the above.Make a simple organic mix ,let cook and plant. Its amazing really just how simple it is.
> 
> I suggest you give it a try. Promix and some dry food a splash of compost and your off.


I'm moving away from dwc, because of how easy the sip is. No mixing, no pH'ing, no monitoring ph and ec. Just add water, top dress a few times, and let grow.


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## myke (Feb 19, 2022)

An update on my sheet covered sips. When I transplanted these in I didn’t see any fliers so thought all was good. I have a worm bin so it was time to harvest and add to the sips. Sitting in my garage I’ve been closely monitoring it for gnats. Seemed it was good so I added the ewc in. Wrong! I guess the added warmth of my room hatched some dormant eggs and wham I got gnats again. Shit. So I removed the top one inch of all my sips. Yes a PIA. Added back plain cooked soil and here we are.
Numbers have slowly declined I’ve since harvested all my worms from my bin gave them a wash and just dumped them in to the sips. So ea sip now has a 20-40 worms. Will see how that goes.
the rest of my worm castings are outside frozen. Shame to kill it off but it just didn’t produce in my garage even with the heater on. Gnats we’re always there so it was time to get rid of it.
Some pics of the girls.
I even added a coco plant this run for shits and giggles. Use up some of my old hydro food.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 19, 2022)

myke said:


> An update on my sheet covered sips. When I transplanted these in I didn’t see any fliers so thought all was good. I have a worm bin so it was time to harvest and add to the sips. Sitting in my garage I’ve been closely monitoring it for gnats. Seemed it was good so I added the ewc in. Wrong! I guess the added warmth of my room hatched some dormant eggs and wham I got gnats again. Shit. So I removed the top one inch of all my sips. Yes a PIA. Added back plain cooked soil and here we are.
> Numbers have slowly declined I’ve since harvested all my worms from my bin gave them a wash and just dumped them in to the sips. So ea sip now has a 20-40 worms. Will see how that goes.
> the rest of my worm castings are outside frozen. Shame to kill it off but it just didn’t produce in my garage even with the heater on. Gnats we’re always there so it was time to get rid of it.
> Some pics of the girls.
> I even added a coco plant this run for shits and giggles. Use up some of my old hydro food. View attachment 5088457View attachment 5088458View attachment 5088460View attachment 5088463


Sorry to hear about the gnats man. Have you used predator mites? 
I have so many insects running around in my sip, I get dizzy trying to watch them. There's thousands and thousands. Springtails, soil mites, hypoaspis miles, etc....
I never see any gnats in my flower tent with the sip, and I have a mom tent in the same room, that usually has a few fliers. Do you have a high diversity of insects running around?


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## myke (Feb 19, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Sorry to hear about the gnats man. Have you used predator mites?
> I have so many insects running around in my sip, I get dizzy trying to watch them. There's thousands and thousands. Springtails, soil mites, hypoaspis miles, etc....
> I never see any gnats in my flower tent with the sip, and I have a mom tent in the same room, that usually has a few fliers. Do you have a high diversity of insects running around?


Yup Ive always had good soil life,hypo myles etc.They never really took over though,lazy I called them lol.There was always just more gnats I guess.Tried nematodes, they did nothing last run.

The sheets are working,there right on top of the soil.I find dead ones when I lift it up.

Sand always works so thats my back up, but for now sheets are nice very easy to top dress.

Sure like the new bigger sips,a lot of surface area to top dress.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 19, 2022)

myke said:


> Yup Ive always had good soil life,hypo myles etc.They never really took over though,lazy I called them lol.There was always just more gnats I guess.Tried nematodes, they did nothing last run.
> 
> The sheets are working,there right on top of the soil.I find dead ones when I lift it up.
> 
> ...


Yea the sheet is likely effective. Maybe the cover is the key. Could be why I don't get them, but I'm sure I add some when I add ewc, and compost. I wonder if adding predator mites to the ewc/compost, a couple weeks before top dressing would help?


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## myke (Feb 19, 2022)

Ive just learned to live with them,they dont hurt anything.I just keep killing them back. Maybe one day Ill be Gnat free but every summer there's millions around so pretty hard to stop them.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 19, 2022)

myke said:


> Ive just learned to live with them,they dont hurt anything.I just keep killing them back. Maybe one day Ill be Gnat free but every summer there's millions around so pretty hard to stop them.


Yea, I guess they don't really do that much damage, at least not that I've ever noticed, but they sure are pesty as fuck. I usually keep a cup with a lil apple cider vinegar, with a couple drops of dish soap in my tent, during flower, to try to keep the flier numbers down, so they don't stick to the buds.


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 19, 2022)

myke said:


> Ive just learned to live with them,they dont hurt anything.I just keep killing them back. Maybe one day Ill be Gnat free but every summer there's millions around so pretty hard to stop them.


What do you feed your worms? Since I’ve been making my own ewc, I’ve been basically gnat free.


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## myke (Feb 19, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> What do you feed your worms? Since I’ve been making my own ewc, I’ve been basically gnat free.


Left over veggies ,some Gaia for grit.Trimmings from plants and what not.


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 19, 2022)

myke said:


> Left over veggies ,some Gaia for grit.Trimmings from plants and what not.


Maybe try feeding them some dried neem and karanja?


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## myke (Feb 20, 2022)

JimmyJackCorn said:


> As awesome as SIPs are, they won't solve my fertilizer problem! Ha!
> 
> This plant is the biggest hog ever! I grew its mother, so I know it wants lots of N.
> 
> ...


What ended up happening ? was the soil not charged enough.


----------



## ImpulsiveGrower (Feb 20, 2022)

Grape gas s1 (CLTVTD cut) in a earthbox junior.


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## Kayaganja (Feb 21, 2022)

Gorilla chunk, or pineapple gorilla, whatever name that feels right, I crossed pineapple chunks from barney’s Farm and gorilla glue from fast buds , now in week 6&half , the gg was an auto so this one shouldn’t be far from ready


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 21, 2022)

Week 2 down.... she's stretching and growing uncontrollably. I'm going to have to put a 4th screen in, and hope it's enough until stretch stops. I won't be growing this strain again. She's showing pistils though!


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## myke (Feb 21, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Week 2 down.... she's stretching and growing uncontrollably. I'm going to have to put a 4th screen in, and hope it's enough until stretch stops. I won't be growing this strain again. She's showing pistils though!
> 
> View attachment 5089776
> View attachment 5089777


nice! They eat all the food them big gals,lol.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 21, 2022)

myke said:


> nice! They eat all the food them big gals,lol.


Bro, it's crazy. I grew this same strain in dwc, and I swear it's outperforming it. I have branches, like vines, weaved all over the place. I used 3 screens last time. I need a 4th, and possibly more, this time!


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## myke (Feb 21, 2022)

I’m just starting stretch ,day 10 for me. 
Topdress of kelp frass alfalfa and Gaia bloom.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 21, 2022)

myke said:


> I’m just starting stretch ,day 10 for me.
> Topdress of kelp frass alfalfa and Gaia bloom. View attachment 5089779


Nice man! What weeks do you defoliate? I've done a lil, but I'm nervous to do too much.


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## myke (Feb 21, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Nice man! What weeks do you defoliate? I've done a lil, but I'm nervous to do too much.


Just did a bunch,I hate larf. Will do more,my humidity tells me when its time.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 21, 2022)

myke said:


> Just did a bunch,I hate larf. Will do more,my humidity tells me when its time.


Yea I guess I better get on it. I use the larf for butter though, so I don't mind it too much.


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## myke (Feb 21, 2022)

Organic the fridge isnt that big so trim off all your larf. Thats a big girl.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 21, 2022)

myke said:


> Organic the fridge isnt that big so trim off all your larf. Thats a big girl.


Roger that. Thanks bro.


----------



## myke (Feb 24, 2022)

Anyone use citric acid in there sips? Thinking my 2 year old soil may need a pH adjustment.Plants look OK just trying to think ahead.
Last amendments had straight peat added to drop pH,thought maybe more adjustments maybe needed.


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## weedstoner420 (Feb 24, 2022)

myke said:


> Anyone use citric acid in there sips? Thinking my 2 year old soil may need a pH adjustment.Plants look OK just trying to think ahead.
> Last amendments had straight peat added to drop pH,thought maybe more adjustments maybe needed.


Sounds more appropriate for a hydroponic system to me. For organic soil I'd think a sulfur based amendment would be more effective at lowering soil pH. Something like: https://www.espoma.com/product/soil-acidifier/


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## speedwell68 (Feb 24, 2022)

Axion42 said:


> Hello everyone. I'm considering building a couple SIP planters for my next grow, I'm used to growing with RDWC and using a chiller to keep water temps down. Do I need to refill the sip res with cold water? Also if I'm using liquid nutes I'm going to want to mix nutes and pH before adding to res or should I top feed? I'm new to any soil/medium grows.


I have read conflicting information on this. I have read a lot of information suggesting using nutes in the reservoir is just fine. So I am going to experiment with it and see what works. I was going to use Chempak soluble nutrients. I have seen multiple videos on growing various fruit and veg plants and they all say it is fine. I am going to do some tomatoes, one reservoir fed and they other with dry amendments and see what happens.


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## LewberDewber852 (Feb 24, 2022)

speedwell68 said:


> I have read conflicting information on this. I have read a lot of information suggesting using nutes in the reservoir is just fine. So I am going to experiment with it and see what works. I was going to use Chempak soluble nutrients. I have seen multiple videos on growing various fruit and veg plants and they all say it is fine. I am going to do some tomatoes, one reservoir fed and they other with dry amendments and see what happens.


I would think that would depend on the medium correct? Neat experiment tho and I hope you share with the Rollitup community!


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## myke (Feb 24, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Sounds more appropriate for a hydroponic system to me. For organic soil I'd think a sulfur based amendment would be more effective at lowering soil pH. Something like: https://www.espoma.com/product/soil-acidifier/


I have too many Ca inputs,ie.. my tap water. Gypsum just adds more.With adding dry amendments like Gaia 444 it has lots of Ca inputs so need to lower ph without adding Ca


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## myke (Feb 24, 2022)

speedwell68 said:


> I have read conflicting information on this. I have read a lot of information suggesting using nutes in the reservoir is just fine. So I am going to experiment with it and see what works. I was going to use Chempak soluble nutrients. I have seen multiple videos on growing various fruit and veg plants and they all say it is fine. I am going to do some tomatoes, one reservoir fed and they other with dry amendments and see what happens.


Im just going by my last grow,nutes added to the top watered in is ok.Nutes in the res not Ok lol

Feeder roots are on the surface, water roots in the res. Top water nutes, youll be happy.


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## weedstoner420 (Feb 24, 2022)

myke said:


> I have too many Ca inputs,ie.. my tap water. Gypsum just adds more.With adding dry amendments like Gaia 444 it has lots of Ca inputs so need to lower ph without adding Ca


There's also elemental sulfur, as in pure S. I would assume a little goes a long way in that case...


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## speedwell68 (Feb 25, 2022)

myke said:


> Im just going by my last grow,nutes added to the top watered in is ok.Nutes in the res not Ok lol
> 
> Feeder roots are on the surface, water roots in the res. Top water nutes, youll be happy.


If I have to top feed nutrients then what is the point of a SIP? I want to be able to fill the reservoir and walk away for at least 4 days. Dry amendments are a really expensive way of feeding a plant.

For the first 4 weeks they will get just water as my medium is good for at least that. I am drawing inspiration from videos like this...


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## myke (Feb 25, 2022)

speedwell68 said:


> If I have to top feed nutrients then what is the point of a SIP? I want to be able to fill the reservoir and walk away for at least 4 days. Dry amendments are a really expensive way of feeding a plant.
> 
> For the first 4 weeks they will get just water as my medium is good for at least that. I am drawing inspiration from videos like this...


Thats DWC without air, not a sip. Tomatoes seem to do ok with that.


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## amneziaHaze (Feb 25, 2022)

speedwell68 said:


> If I have to top feed nutrients then what is the point of a SIP? I want to be able to fill the reservoir and walk away for at least 4 days. Dry amendments are a really expensive way of feeding a plant.
> 
> For the first 4 weeks they will get just water as my medium is good for at least that. I am drawing inspiration from videos like this...


tried kratky tomatoes work wonders weed stops growing after 5 days. and that was a tiny plant in 10L water


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## weedstoner420 (Feb 25, 2022)

speedwell68 said:


> If I have to top feed nutrients then what is the point of a SIP? I want to be able to fill the reservoir and walk away for at least 4 days. Dry amendments are a really expensive way of feeding a plant.
> 
> For the first 4 weeks they will get just water as my medium is good for at least that. I am drawing inspiration from videos like this...


That sounds like a hempy bucket to me.

Dry amendments may be expensive (debatable), but in my mind it's worth it to pre-load the soil with them. I use 2 pre-mixed dry fert blends, because I can't be bothered to source all the individual meals and flours and such. I fill my SIPs' reservoirs with plain tap water every 3-4 days, top dress a couple times during flower just for peace of mind, and that's it. Doesn't get much easier.

In my mind it's important to have the right amounts of medium and nutrients for the right sized plant(s). If you get that down, you don't even have to top dress, just add water to the reservoir. And once you get a feel for how fast they empty the reservoir, you can automate the watering with a timer and almost never even have to open the tent...


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## amneziaHaze (Feb 25, 2022)

If you want to leave for a week i would use a drip system.long time ago i bought some asian drippers its like a porculan spike with a hose.it drips 1L a day


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## speedwell68 (Feb 26, 2022)

amneziaHaze said:


> If you want to leave for a week i would use a drip system.long time ago i bought some asian drippers its like a porculan spike with a hose.it drips 1L a day


I grow in a attic. I have to be able to get everything, including water, through a 2'x2' hatch.


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## amneziaHaze (Feb 26, 2022)

You use a cable less than an inch its really cool i got a pack of 4 for 0.5dollars


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## Feo309 (Feb 28, 2022)

Question- 

I just finished my 3rd grow, first time organic, first time SIP, first time with a new-to-me HLG light, first time growing a Mephisto autoflower (not my first auto, just the first of theirs).

Is 10 ounces a decent yield? 2 ounces was larfy stuff I water cured for edibles. Should have done some training I think, but I really wanted to see how it grew naturally.

My CBD plant yielded 2 ounces. It was a stumpy thing but smelled great.

My first 2 grows gave me about 3 ounces per. I think I’m good on bud for awhile, but damn, I’m ready to get some more started.

LOL


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## LewberDewber852 (Feb 28, 2022)

Feo309 said:


> Question-
> 
> I just finished my 3rd grow, first time organic, first time SIP, first time with a new-to-me HLG light, first time growing a Mephisto autoflower (not my first auto, just the first of theirs).
> 
> ...


I would say that depends on what your expectations were going into it. Also a lot of of other things lol 
If your happy that’s all that matters! I can’t wait to do my SIP setup


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## Feo309 (Feb 28, 2022)

LewberDewber852 said:


> I would say that depends on what your expectations were going into it. Also a lot of of other things lol
> If your happy that’s all that matters! I can’t wait to do my SIP setup


I was thinking around 4 ounces, just less maintenance and less chance of killing them by over feeding.

Yep, I’m happy with that.


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## Hollatchaboy (Feb 28, 2022)

Week 3 down....




I believe she's done stretching. What a relief. I trimmed her up a bit too. 



I just top dressed some dte rose and flower for the first time tonight. I wanted to try it out and see how it does. Also some ewc, some build a flower, some kashi blend, and I watered it in with 500 ml of build a bloom. She should be good for a week. Lol


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 28, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> That sounds like a hempy bucket to me.
> 
> Dry amendments may be expensive (debatable), but in my mind it's worth it to pre-load the soil with them. I use 2 pre-mixed dry fert blends, because I can't be bothered to source all the individual meals and flours and such. I fill my SIPs' reservoirs with plain tap water every 3-4 days, top dress a couple times during flower just for peace of mind, and that's it. Doesn't get much easier.
> 
> In my mind it's important to have the right amounts of medium and nutrients for the right sized plant(s). If you get that down, you don't even have to top dress, just add water to the reservoir. And once you get a feel for how fast they empty the reservoir, you can automate the watering with a timer and almost never even have to open the tent...


But I like opening the tent! Ha!


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 28, 2022)

Here is my current project of 2 Bodhi Strawberry Temple at 23 days flip. These have a loud lemon-pine smell and are heavy yielders.

Also, here are the 27 gal SIPs I made last weekend. Super excited to get cracking with these in my new 5x5 setup. Thanks goes to @Nu-Be for kicking some ideas around with me. I know your silently watching and reacting. Ha! Think I’m going to try no tilling these and see how they fair.


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## weedstoner420 (Feb 28, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> But I like opening the tent! Ha!


Same, it's nice to just watch them do their thing


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## myke (Mar 2, 2022)

Around day 20 of 12/12. Sheets seamed to have worked. Gradually over the last week I see less and less gnats. Sheets stay wet as they sit right on the dirt now that I’ve added more with ea top dress. I sprinkled some citric acid in my top watering once last week but kinda a pia so I’ve quit that. I’ve added straight peat into the soil for next round so will see.
Instead of adding trellis I’ve just been moving the one I have up as they grow. Gives more room underneath.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 2, 2022)

myke said:


> Around day 20 of 12/12. Sheets seamed to have worked. Gradually over the last week I see less and less gnats. Sheets stay wet as they sit right on the dirt now that I’ve added more with ea top dress. I sprinkled some citric acid in my top watering once last week but kinda a pia so I’ve quit that. I’ve added straight peat into the soil for next round so will see.
> Instead of adding trellis I’ve just been moving the one I have up as they grow. Gives more room underneath. View attachment 5094961View attachment 5094962


Lookin great bro!


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## myke (Mar 2, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Lookin great bro!


Yours too,the older the soil gets the better it is I guess.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 2, 2022)

myke said:


> Yours too,the older the soil gets the better it is I guess.


Agreed.


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## Polly Wog (Mar 2, 2022)

Next round here is city picker sips. I'm tired of watering. Riding along.


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## CWF (Mar 2, 2022)

I put my earthbox together today, and filled it with soil I've been "cooking" for 6-7 weeks. Then, I dumped it all out and did it again, because, as I stonedly realized after watching BAS set one up on one of his video, I put the screen in there upside down!  Thanks, dude.


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## Jcue81 (Mar 3, 2022)

Hey guys!

I’m switching from a 2x4 bed to 3 earthboxes. The earthbox instructions say the potting mix should be 70 -95% peat and not use compost. Watching the build a soil channel it appears Jeremy uses one of his soil mixes which has a decent amount of castings and amendments 

I typically make my own soil using the coot recipe- should I seriously fill my earthbox with just peat and perlite? I understand I’ll be topdressing castings, gro kashi, etc but I’m tempted to mix castings in with my soil too.

Does anyone have an ideal earthbox recipe? Or am I overthinking this and just stick to what Alan suggests and avoid castings in my mix?

I appreciate any tips!


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## myke (Mar 3, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I’m switching from a 2x4 bed to 3 earthboxes. The earthbox instructions say the potting mix should be 70 -95% peat and not use compost. Watching the build a soil channel it appears Jeremy uses one of his soil mixes which has a decent amount of castings and amendments
> 
> ...


Mine is 40/20/40,peat, compost/castings ,perlite.
Soil does stay wet so just be mindful of plant size and how much water.Ive only planted 2g size plants and they've started wicking right away. A small clone probably would be ok without any water in the res for the first while.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 3, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I’m switching from a 2x4 bed to 3 earthboxes. The earthbox instructions say the potting mix should be 70 -95% peat and not use compost. Watching the build a soil channel it appears Jeremy uses one of his soil mixes which has a decent amount of castings and amendments
> 
> ...


I use bas 3.0 in mine, here's the ingredients... .



It has compost and worm castings in it. Id say you're good to add castings to your mix.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 3, 2022)

myke said:


> Mine is 40/20/40,peat, compost/castings ,perlite.
> Soil does stay wet so just be mindful of plant size and how much water.Ive only planted 2g size plants and they've started wicking right away. A small clone probably would be ok without any water in the res for the first while.


Let the plant show signs of growth, before filling the res.


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## myke (Mar 3, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Let the plant show signs of growth, before filling the res.


Yeah just water the soil prior to filling the sip and its the same as having a 15g pot.Should go a week before it needs water.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 3, 2022)

myke said:


> Yeah just water the soil prior to filling the sip and its the same as having a 15g pot.Should go a week before it needs water.


And like you say, roots hit the res, flip.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 3, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I’m switching from a 2x4 bed to 3 earthboxes. The earthbox instructions say the potting mix should be 70 -95% peat and not use compost. Watching the build a soil channel it appears Jeremy uses one of his soil mixes which has a decent amount of castings and amendments
> 
> ...


Good on your for making the switch to SIPs!

I would say no to the peat and aeration. In the past I used bagged soil and OSF. Just use your Coots mix with 1 cup OSF per cu foot. I top dress 3ish times with Crustacean meal, Insect Frass, ground Barley, EWC, Compost, and lastly some Kashi. Once when I’m setting up the sip, once at planting and the last one at flip. Think of your sip as an engine, with the soil being the gas tank. You only have 15 gal tank, so don’t veg too long. Topdress will only carry you so far after your soil is depleted. Yes to EWC!

I keep my res full throughout the life of the grow, from the initial setup to close to harvest. I want the soil to have saturated, promote breakdown, and the life to get moving.

Are you using a microbial inoculate like em1, LABs or photosynthesis +? If not, I would give it a try! Bacterially dominate bottom, fungal dominate top, with a party in the middle!

If you haven’t already, check out Greens Probiotic thread on here. It’s the model I followed from the start and is a great jumping off point.
Hope this helps! If I didn’t answer your question, just ask. I am in the throes of a hippy speedball (French Roast and Sunshine Queen) and haven’t balanced out yet. So I might just be rambling. Ha!


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## Jcue81 (Mar 3, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Good on your for making the switch to SIPs!
> 
> I would say no to the peat and aeration. In the past I used bagged soil and OSF. Just use your Coots mix with 1 cup OSF per cu foot. I top dress 3ish times with Crustacean meal, Insect Frass, ground Barley, EWC, Compost, and lastly some Kashi. Once when I’m setting up the sip, once at planting and the last one at flip. Think of your sip as an engine, with the soil being the gas tank. You only have 15 gal tank, so don’t veg too long. Topdress will only carry you so far after your soil is depleted. Yes to EWC!
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for all the replies! I have a bottle of EM1. What is a good amount? Couple ounces a week? 

What is OSF? Drawing a blank..

Do you dump and start over each cycle? 
Is it possible to finish 11–12 week varietals in an earthbox?

Thanks so much everyone. Earthboxes will be here today. Clones are ready for transplant from their 1 gallon pots. Have the 1990’s Upstate NY Sour Diesel, Apple Fritter, and Wedding Pie.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 3, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Thanks so much for all the replies! I have a bottle of EM1. What is a good amount? Couple ounces a week?
> 
> What is OSF? Drawing a blank..
> 
> ...


I’ve started using LABs instead of em-1 as it has a more diverse array of life and it’s free, but you would use 1oz em1 to gal of water. I use some microbial inoculate at every watering. You can expand em1 so a couple oz’s can become a gal. It does take time though. I posted the best video I could find from Teraganix a couple pages back. 

Oyster Shell Flour

In the past I would dump and start over, but my recycled soil reserves are such that I can use my recycled soil. I just made some 27 gal’ers and am going to try no tilling them instead.

If you have the 15 gal (2 cu ft) EBs I would say yes. May require a 4th topdress. My last grow went 72 days I think and they were trucking’ right along, happier than pigs in shit with only 3 topdresses.


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## Jcue81 (Mar 3, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> My last grow went 72 days I think and they were trucking’ right along, happier than pigs in shit with only 3 topdresses.


Nice, I bet you get a beautiful fade too. I’ll have to find the LABS video you posted. I like free..


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 3, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Nice, I bet you get a beautiful fade too. I’ll have to find the LABS video you posted. I like free..


Sorry, the video I was referring to was expanding em1. Hyroot has a good video out there on making LABS. Chris Trump has good one also.


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## Kayaganja (Mar 3, 2022)

Making Lab YB video


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## Polly Wog (Mar 3, 2022)

I've been using 7 gallon grow bags and I'm just tired of watering. I've used Dr Earth and some other things such as lime etc. And saw the sip grows on youboob from buildasoil and others. I have 4 of the city pickers in grey. I think it will match the reflective mylar.... How many plants? One per sip? I have around 3 weeks before my bags are done.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 3, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> I've been using 7 gallon grow bags and I'm just tired of watering. I've used Dr Earth and some other things such as lime etc. And saw the sip grows on youboob from buildasoil and others. I have 4 of the city pickers in grey. I think it will match the reflective mylar.... How many plants? One per sip? I have around 3 weeks before my bags are done.


How many cu ft of soil?


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## Polly Wog (Mar 3, 2022)

The city picker I believe holds 1.5 ish. In bags I grow with a mix of promix, worm castings, happy frog a bit extra pearlite. Dolomite lime as well. Dr. Earth triple 4 and bloom Dr. Earth as well. Then I top dress every couple weeks. The area is 5x5. But I like variety and usually run 6 to 8 and flip early. The really agressive growing strains cover a larger area of course. I'm thinking 1 strain per and doing a 3 cup fertilizer strip and a cup of 2 of dolomite in the mid layer. I'm really lazy. I'll be honest a larger soil area etc like the organic guys looks great but not in my finished basement. If the city pickers work like I've seen on videos I'll be thrilled.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 3, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Sorry, the video I was referring to was expanding em1. Hyroot has a good video out there on making LABS. Chris Trump has good one also.


Chris Trump is the man!


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## natureboygrower (Mar 3, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Let the plant show signs of growth, before filling the res.





myke said:


> Yeah just water the soil prior to filling the sip and its the same as having a 15g pot.Should go a week before it needs water.


I have put very small clones in my EB's with the reservoir filled and never had a problem? I'd be worried about my wicking soil drying out waiting too long before filling the reservoir


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## myke (Mar 3, 2022)

natureboygrower said:


> I have put very small clones in my EB's with the reservoir filled and never had a problem? I'd be worried about my wicking soil drying out waiting too long before filling the reservoir


Well that's good to know,I think that also kills the myth that you need straight peat with little to no compost in a sip.


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## natureboygrower (Mar 3, 2022)

myke said:


> Well that's good to know,I think that also kills the myth that you need straight peat with little to no compost in a sip.


I usually plant clones still in solos. I also run 33% compost, so yeah, myth busted. 
I've had my wicking soil not wick a couple times. One time I left the old wicking soil in( i use new dirt every run) and it wasnt wet enough to wick, the other time was due to packing the soil too tight.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 3, 2022)

natureboygrower said:


> I usually plant clones still in solos. I also run 33% compost, so yeah, myth busted.
> I've had my wicking soil not wick a couple times. One time I left the old wicking soil in( i use new dirt every run) and it wasnt wet enough to wick, the other time was due to packing the soil too tight.


Setup in the EB’s is crucial I think or they do dry out. I pack wicks all the way to the rim of the planter, watering as I go to pack the soil down. The last couple runs I broke Greenthumb’s no top watering rule and it’s worked out great for keeping the top couple inches of soil moist. Plus I can add in my nutrient teas and whatnot.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 3, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Setup in the EB’s is crucial I think or they do dry out. I pack wicks all the way to the rim of the planter, watering as I go to pack the soil down. The last couple runs I broke Greenthumb’s no top watering rule and it’s worked out great for keeping the top couple inches of soil moist. Plus I can add in my nutrient teas and whatnot.


I always top water 500 ml after top dressing with either plain w/yucca, compost/nutrient tea, or build a bloom. I never have any problems, and I feel like it helps start breaking down the top dress faster.


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## Xsan (Mar 3, 2022)

I'm another greens probiotic one. I start the seeds in 1 gallon pots with a layer of pumice then bas 3.0. This is posted a page or two into greens thread. I do let my saucer(res) dry out in the mini sip but keep the soil moist. I build and fill my big sip the same day with bas 3.0, bus, and ewc and keep it full until the end. Big sip gets em1 in the res. Microsip is straight tap out of ideal ph range. My first attempt is getting colorful now and my second attempt is coming along


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## Jcue81 (Mar 3, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Sorry, the video I was referring to was expanding em1. Hyroot has a good video out there on making LABS. Chris Trump has good one also.


Watched the LABS video! So pumped to be able to make something that’s as good or better than EM1 for next to nothing.

I’m going to check out Chris Trump and hyroot and catch up on this thread and Greens. Really appreciate all the help and suggestions everyone.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 3, 2022)

Xsan said:


> I'm another greens probiotic one. I start the seeds in 1 gallon pots with a layer of pumice then bas 3.0. This is posted a page or two into greens thread. I do let my saucer(res) dry out in the mini sip but keep the soil moist. I build and fill my big sip the same day with bas 3.0, bus, and ewc and keep it full until the end. Big sip gets em1 in the res. Microsip is straight tap out of ideal ph range. My first attempt is getting colorful now and my second attempt is coming along


Yeah dude! Micro SIPs are sweet! I tried it last grow with great success! Shulby is another thread on here that has some SIP stuff also.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 3, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Watched the LABS video! So pumped to be able to make something that’s as good or better than EM1 for next to nothing.
> 
> I’m going to check out Chris Trump and hyroot and catch up on this thread and Greens. Really appreciate all the help and suggestions everyone.


Look into imo's and ferments. Great shit!


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## Xsan (Mar 3, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Yeah dude! Micro SIPs are sweet! I tried it last grow with great success! Shulby is another thread on here that has some SIP stuff also.


Did you try to keep water in the res or let it dry out? Last time I kept it full as much as I could, this round I've been letting it dry out before I refill. I'm not seeing a significant difference either way.


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## GenericEnigma (Mar 4, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I always top water 500 ml after top dressing with either plain w/yucca, compost/nutrient tea, or build a bloom. I never have any problems, and I feel like it helps start breaking down the top dress faster.


Folks the last few posts have been talking about top-watering a SIP. I do so fairly regularly, since I mulch with leaves and top-dress with compost/EWC, and am trying for no-till (top-water simulates rain, I guess, and my SIP doesn't soak the top layer into breaking down very well).

But I do want to raise caution. I put too much water on top and over time the hydrologic pressure forced soil water back into my reservoir (basically spiked it with compost tea). No big deal, until the ppm gets high enough to lock out nutrients.

If you run a semi-closed system like me, it can be more of a concern. If you have a robust overflow, like, for example, @myke, it might be less of a concern.

I had to siphon out my entire reservoir a couple weeks ago in learning this lesson. Got me back on track, though.


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## McShnutz (Mar 4, 2022)

I've been using SIP for 10+ yrs outdoors with some cherry and pear tomatoes. A combination of top and bottom watering is beneficial. At least in my experience. In soil, Organic ammendments all the way, but some bottled salts from the top can be appropriate. I don't give AACT in SIP. The bottom resivore with an airstone will brew 24/7. Just make sure to top water once in a while and this will help to replenish nutrient to be munched on by the micro herd. I like to top water In molasses if I expect any "brewing" to happen.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 4, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> Folks the last few posts have been talking about top-watering a SIP. I do so fairly regularly, since I mulch with leaves and top-dress with compost/EWC, and am trying for no-till (top-water simulates rain, I guess, and my SIP doesn't soak the top layer into breaking down very well).
> 
> But I do want to raise caution. I put too much water on top and over time the hydrologic pressure forced soil water back into my reservoir (basically spiked it with compost tea). No big deal, until the ppm gets high enough to lock out nutrients.
> 
> ...


I let my res run dry before refilling. I also usually top water before refilling the res, not always, but usually.

I've filled the res with build a bloom before, and it didn't do anything detrimental, so I guess I didn't get the ppms too high, but as you stated, always use caution.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 4, 2022)

McShnutz said:


> I've been using SIP for 10+ yrs outdoors with some cherry and pear tomatoes. A combination of top and bottom watering is beneficial. At least in my experience. In soil, Organic ammendments all the way, but some bottled salts from the top can be appropriate. I don't give AACT in SIP. The bottom resivore with an airstone will brew 24/7. Just make sure to top water once in a while and this will help to replenish nutrient to be munched on by the micro herd. I like to top water In molasses if I expect any "brewing" to happen.


Have you tried without the airstones? Ran a side by side? Airstones in the reservoir have been dancing in my head. There has been chatter of them affecting the microbial innoculant specifically em1. I called Teraganix and they told me that they don’t have experience and don’t know how it would affect the em1. “Adding an airstone with a small amount of bubbles would work, and probably eliminate the need for the lime in the system.” Thoughts?


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## McShnutz (Mar 4, 2022)

McShnutz said:


> I've been using SIP for 10+ yrs outdoors with some cherry and pear tomatoes. A combination of top and bottom watering is beneficial. At least in my experience. In soil, Organic ammendments all the way, but some bottled salts from the top can be appropriate. I don't give AACT in SIP. The bottom resivore with an airstone will brew 24/7. Just make sure to top water once in a while and this will help to replenish nutrient to be munched on by the micro herd. I like to top water In molasses if I expect any "brewing" to happen.


One last thing I forgot to mention. If anyone does utilize an airstone in the bottom, make sure to routinely inspect it for biofilms. A properly functioning soil web will be highly bacterial. Bacteria produce enzymes and your airstones will be completely covered with goop. Looks like mucus and will most likely be brown. Just rub it off. 
When the stones get covered with films is when I'd say you don't need to "brew" anymore. But plants and microbes always appreciate increased 02


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## McShnutz (Mar 4, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Have you tried without the airstones? Ran a side by side? Airstones in the reservoir have been dancing in my head. There has been chatter of them affecting the microbial innoculant specifically em1. I called Teraganix and they told me that they don’t have experience and don’t know how it would affect the em1. “Adding an airstone with a small amount of bubbles would work, and probably eliminate the need for the lime in the system.” Thoughts?


I have done without. I did 6 casablanca lillies with a 4" cocoa bean shell mulch. Mulch turned into a green sponge it was completely inoculated by trichoderma. I have to do some digging around on FB but I have pictures from that Lilly grow. I shit you not, the flower buds were the size of a yellow banana. Once opened, the flower was wider than my head and could be smelled 70ft down the driveway. Tiger bloom was the only nutrient I used aside from the soils value and rain water.
Ever since that SIP, I've been including trich into every garden.

So as far as the EM1 is concerned. LAB is a flaculative anerobe. Depending on its environment it can function as a anerobe, or an aerobe, also ha ING 2 separate functions and benefits to us, animals and plants. When I make AACT, I don't have any microbial powders, I have DIY LAB and IMO. Everything I use is either in my ferments or in the serum. I get foam within 12hrs spilling over the sides of the bucket.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 4, 2022)

Xsan said:


> Did you try to keep water in the res or let it dry out? Last time I kept it full as much as I could, this round I've been letting it dry out before I refill. I'm not seeing a significant difference either way.


I kept the reservoir full. I put a tbs of molasses in a 5gal bucket to bubble out chlorine and the molasses helps with chloramine. Added food for the microbes also. The molasses water got gross, so I’ll only use clean water from here on out. Or just change the water more frequently. Think I’ll occasionally let them go dry.
I did experience some root rot, as the pumice depleted from the bottom of the container the roots became more submerged. I’ll definitely keep a closer eye on that this next go.


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## McShnutz (Mar 4, 2022)

I'll be doing a side-by-side comparison with 2 SIPs I have. I'm planning to automate one of them using blusoak line and blumat Maxi on a 125psi pump system. And the other will be how everyone else is utilizing them with a passive hydroponic factor.

Should I put an airstone in each or just one?


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## GenericEnigma (Mar 4, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I let my res run dry before refilling. I also usually top water before refilling the res, not always, but usually.
> 
> I've filled the res with build a bloom before, and it didn't do anything detrimental, so I guess I didn't get the ppms too high, but as you stated, always use caution.


Indeed. It's also a bigger deal in my current setup because my soil is super hot and it's the first run with it. As usual, everything must be taken into account.

Like you, I only top-water now when the reservoir is not as full. I tested the reservoir water yesterday and it was basically still tap water--so far so good!


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## Grain Bill (Mar 4, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Have you tried without the airstones? Ran a side by side? Airstones in the reservoir have been dancing in my head. There has been chatter of them affecting the microbial innoculant specifically em1. I called Teraganix and they told me that they don’t have experience and don’t know how it would affect the em1. “Adding an airstone with a small amount of bubbles would work, and probably eliminate the need for the lime in the system.” Thoughts?


Hey all, I've been told not to use them with the method /nutes I used but I could not say how it applies to others. The reason was it would negatively affect microbes.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 4, 2022)

Grain Bill said:


> Hey all, I've been told not to use them with the method /nutes I used but I could not say how it applies to others. The reason was it would negatively affect microbes.


But isn't it the same concept as a compost tea?


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## Grain Bill (Mar 4, 2022)

I did some posts in the past and this place may be good for a follow up of this candy kush grow.

-A few weeks ago on SIP to Mars :

Presently in my sip I use RAW NPK nutes and soil is a perlite, FF Hapy Frog and worm castings mix. I have ideas to go fully organic one day but later.
First pic is how I drain it if wanted, I'm glad my setup allowed me to just fit a pipe with a few hardware store parts, then with access to a drain not too far.

For now It's 2 good plants of Candy Kush arriving in a decent growth spree and just beggining to reach the net + scraps from a difficult cloning session (will improve the process nxt time). I expected 4 plants total in 2 containers but I think I will be ok with 2 good plants + a few more veg weeks. Maybe I will be better with 2 bigger plants in this setup for next grows also, not sure. Forced experiment right here! I feel like now is time to not fuck up.


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## Grain Bill (Mar 4, 2022)

Update: so yes it did grow, 10 day since the 12/12 switch now. Maybe I sat 1 week too much in veg but stretch will be ok I hope. I'm pretty much where I wished at that point with an even and dense Candy kush canopy (semi achieved but good enough screen of green) and some inches to spare to raise the light as needed. Jack Herrer autoflos in left container where almost not trained, in the hope they would compete with older CK plants and I'm glad they did. No sign of deficiency since the beginning, this is good. 

Will use a single container on nxt grows, seems enough for my small tent


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## Grain Bill (Mar 4, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> But isn't it the same concept as a compost tea?


The conversation was like : Oxygen is always needed but some systems will require a supplement more than others. The total surface of the water exposed to air in the tank matters and it can vary according to different setups. Sorry I could not go much further as to how it could negatively affect some microbes in different situations. And as always I'd be curious to see what a side by side test would do but I'm too happy to do nothing this time, as I've been advised.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 5, 2022)

Grain Bill said:


> The conversation was like : Oxygen is always needed but some systems will require a supplement more than others. The total surface of the water exposed to air in the tank matters and it can vary according to different setups. Sorry I could not go much further as to how it could negatively affect some microbes in different situations. And as always I'd be curious to see what a side by side test would do but I'm too happy to do nothing this time, as I've been advised.


Cool man. I understand. I don't run an airstone in my res, but it's because I worry more about washing out my wicks. I don't worry about microbes in the res. Worms will bring them in when they come into the res. Also, I occasionally will run em1 in the res. I don't believe that air would be good for the anaerobic microbes.


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## Jcue81 (Mar 5, 2022)

i got my Apple Fritter and Wedding Pie clones transplanted from 1 gallon to an earthbox. I bought three without realizing how big they are- too big for three in a 4x4. These are new cuts for me, so first priority is get some cuts rooted before flipping these. I overwatered when I got them 3 weeks ago and the stems all turned purple. New growth is green herbaceous material. Just wondering if I need to grow this out so my cuts are on fresh green material or if I can cut and root a woodier purple stem. I appreciate any suggestions. While I have been growing outdoors from seed since 1999, I am very inexperienced with indoor grows and cloning.

I am scared to overwater again so I did not water these transplants and didn’t add to the res. the mix was nicely moist when I planted. Figure I’ll give them a little top watering tonight then leave them be for 4-5 days and fill the res when they start growing as you guys recommended.

Hopeful that these two take off! Sour Diesel clone is going into a second EB tonight!

Can I add well disolved Epsom salts in the res or should that be top watered in? Got a bit of a mag deficiency in the diesel.


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## myke (Mar 5, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> i got my Apple Fritter and Wedding Pie clones transplanted from 1 gallon to an earthbox. I bought three without realizing how big they are- too big for three in a 4x4. These are new cuts for me, so first priority is get some cuts rooted before flipping these. I overwatered when I got them 3 weeks ago and the stems all turned purple. New growth is green herbaceous material. Just wondering if I need to grow this out so my cuts are on fresh green material or if I can cut and root a woodier purple stem. I appreciate any suggestions. While I have been growing outdoors from seed since 1999, I am very inexperienced with indoor grows and cloning.
> 
> I am scared to overwater again so I did not water these transplants and didn’t add to the res. the mix was nicely moist when I planted. Figure I’ll give them a little top watering tonight then leave them be for 4-5 days and fill the res when they start growing as you guys recommended.
> 
> ...


Spray the epsom,works fast.


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## weedstoner420 (Mar 5, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> i got my Apple Fritter and Wedding Pie clones transplanted from 1 gallon to an earthbox. I bought three without realizing how big they are- too big for three in a 4x4. These are new cuts for me, so first priority is get some cuts rooted before flipping these. I overwatered when I got them 3 weeks ago and the stems all turned purple. New growth is green herbaceous material. Just wondering if I need to grow this out so my cuts are on fresh green material or if I can cut and root a woodier purple stem. I appreciate any suggestions. While I have been growing outdoors from seed since 1999, I am very inexperienced with indoor grows and cloning.
> 
> I am scared to overwater again so I did not water these transplants and didn’t add to the res. the mix was nicely moist when I planted. Figure I’ll give them a little top watering tonight then leave them be for 4-5 days and fill the res when they start growing as you guys recommended.
> 
> ...


I would take cuts from fresher/non-woody growth.

I've not used epsom salt before but have read it is better to use it as a foliar than to water it in.

Main reason I replied is, why not fill the Earthbox all the way with soil? The directions tell you to mound the soil up 4-6" over the rim. I normally do more like 1-2" because it's less messy. Either way, it's just more medium/nutrients for the roots to make use of.


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## Jcue81 (Mar 5, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> I would take cuts from fresher/non-woody growth.
> 
> I've not used epsom salt before but have read it is better to use it as a foliar than to water it in.
> 
> Main reason I replied is, why not fill the Earthbox all the way with soil? The directions tell you to mound the soil up 4-6" over the rim. I normally do more like 1-2" because it's less messy. Either way, it's just more medium/nutrients for the roots to make use of.


I was thinking I’d want room to add topdressings/castings, but I can definitely add some more and still have plenty of space to mound it up. Thanks for the tip!


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## weedstoner420 (Mar 5, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> I was thinking I’d want room to add topdressings/castings, but I can definitely add some more and still have plenty of space to mound it up. Thanks for the tip!


Yahhh, I top dress mine depending on the needs of the plants but it never seems to add as much volume as I think it will. Plus the whole thing is going to compact a bit throughout the grow, unless you really packed it tight to begin with.


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## myke (Mar 5, 2022)

I get the red stems also if I leave a plant too long without food. After transplant into sips they take off and new growth stays green. Give it a week and you can take clones.


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## Jcue81 (Mar 5, 2022)

You guys are so awesome and helpful. Really appreciate all the advice!


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## myke (Mar 5, 2022)

Gave everything a top up of Ewc this am. Sure notice the soil sinking down. I added a bunch of soil last week and looks like I didn’t add anything at all.


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## Jcue81 (Mar 5, 2022)

myke said:


> Gave everything a top up of Ewc this am. Sure notice the soil sinking down. I added a bunch of soil last week and looks like I didn’t add anything at all. View attachment 5096603


Do you no-till your boxes, @myke or dump and re-amend?


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## myke (Mar 5, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Do you no-till your boxes, @myke or dump and re-amend?


Dump and re amend.


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## Jcue81 (Mar 5, 2022)

myke said:


> Dump and re amend.


Id love to hear your approach to that. I assume it just gets too heavy with the castings?


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## myke (Mar 5, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Id love to hear your approach to that. I assume it just gets too heavy with the castings?


My sips are too small +- 9 -10 gallons.There completely depleted of food by harvest.Plants get too big,have since moved too bigger sips 18ish gallons and learning to flip earlier.
Rotation of soil seems to work for now.I currently have approx 90 gallons of soil cooking and about 60 gallons in use..I think Im ready for a huge ass sip lol.


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## Jcue81 (Mar 5, 2022)

Sour Diesel got transplanted into its own earthbox tonight. I mounded this one a lot more. Malted barley, castings, bokashi and watered it in. I gave it an epsom foliar Thursday and will give it another in a few days. Hoping she perks up and starts moving. Up-potted a couple CSI Humboldt seed starts that are going to a friend who is getting started. (GG4xCookies and Headband x TK) 

when I do fill the res how much EM1? Do you guys add the same amount each watering?


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## Xsan (Mar 5, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Sour Diesel got transplanted into its own earthbox tonight. I mounded this one a lot more. Malted barley, castings, bokashi and watered it in. I gave it an epsom foliar Thursday and will give it another in a few days. Hoping she perks up and starts moving. Up-potted a couple CSI Humboldt seed starts that are going to a friend who is getting started. (GG4xCookies and Headband x TK)
> 
> when I do fill the res how much EM1? Do you guys add the same amount each watering? View attachment 5096900


1oz of em1 per gallon of water


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## myke (Mar 6, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Sour Diesel got transplanted into its own earthbox tonight. I mounded this one a lot more. Malted barley, castings, bokashi and watered it in. I gave it an epsom foliar Thursday and will give it another in a few days. Hoping she perks up and starts moving. Up-potted a couple CSI Humboldt seed starts that are going to a friend who is getting started. (GG4xCookies and Headband x TK)
> 
> when I do fill the res how much EM1? Do you guys add the same amount each watering? View attachment 5096900


Id fill with water now,sit back and watch.


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## Jcue81 (Mar 6, 2022)

Xsan said:


> 1oz of em1 per gallon of water


Every watering?


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 6, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Sour Diesel got transplanted into its own earthbox tonight. I mounded this one a lot more. Malted barley, castings, bokashi and watered it in. I gave it an epsom foliar Thursday and will give it another in a few days. Hoping she perks up and starts moving. Up-potted a couple CSI Humboldt seed starts that are going to a friend who is getting started. (GG4xCookies and Headband x TK)
> 
> when I do fill the res how much EM1? Do you guys add the same amount each watering? View attachment 5096900


Mornin’
Looking good! 1oz em1 per gal. 3/4 tsp labs per gal.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 6, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Every watering?


Yes I add some at every watering from initial setup till close to harvest. I stop adding water and let it run dry ish so I could dump and reammend.


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## McShnutz (Mar 6, 2022)

The species of the genus Lactobacillus have been traditionally classified as *oxygen-tolerant anaerobes*, but it has been demonstrated that several strains are able to use oxygen as a substrate in reactions mediated by flavin oxidases and, in some cases, to synthesize a minimal respiratory chain.

https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/AEM.00136-08


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## McShnutz (Mar 6, 2022)

Add an airstone


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## Jcue81 (Mar 6, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Yes I add some at every watering from initial setup till close to harvest. I stop adding water and let it run dry ish so I could dump and reammend.


Damn, I need to get busy making LABS. I won’t be paying for EM1 after this bottle is done. I filled up my reservoirs up So much easier than anally watering a couple gallons into my 70 gallon bed making sure to evenly apply then coming back the next day to hit the edges so they don’t dry out.


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## natureboygrower (Mar 6, 2022)

I also run airstones but I'm not quite as worried about microbial life as you guys so I cant really speak on if there's any negative impact or not. One thing I do notice is that at harvest, when I dump my boxes in my compost pile, roots are always wrapped around those airstones. I don't know if the airstones draw roots towards them or if it's roots like to grow around things. Either way, I can barely make out the stone it is so covered in roots.


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## McShnutz (Mar 6, 2022)

LAB is very effective at improving pore space in soil/soil ventilation

LAB increases the solubility of fertiliser

LAB can directly promote plant growth or seed germination, as well as alleviating various abiotic stresses.

LAB will neutralize ammonia gas produced where the immature compost is applied.

LAB is conditionally anaerobic, so they can also survive with oxygen.

LAB solubilizes phosphate - Using LAB in phosphate-accumulated soil will increase its capacity to absorb the insoluble form of phosphates and help overcome the saline disorder as a result of decomposition of the phosphates.

LAB has served as an effective biocontrol agent; recently LAB has been shown to be effective in the control of a wide variety of fungal and bacterial phytopathogens.

LAB can improve nutrient availability from compost and other organic material.
The fermentation pathways provide a more efficient means for utilizing organic substances during their decomposition in soil.

The varied means with which LAB can act as a plant growth promoting bacteria (PGPB) 

LAB can be used in biofertilisers, biocontrol agents and biostimulants to aid in producing food. The ability of lactic acid bacteria to live in the plant endosphere suggests an intimate relationship, which is responsible to enhance plant production by improving nutrient availability, acting as a biocontrol agent, alleviating biotic and biotic stresses, and directly stimulating plant growth “

LAB in their own right are a powerful PGPB but added to other complementary microbes, such as those found in EM, further enhances their potency. Lactobacillus plantarum, one of the LAB species in EM, is a particularliy voracious cellulose digesting bacteria who work effectively alongside the fermenting fungi and actinomycetes to accelerate the breakdown of plant residues, creating humus and stimulating aerobic microbes. 

By oxygenating the bottom your increasing the bacterial chain, thus increasing population of not only LAB but all other beneficial aerobes. Bottom line is, More Microbes/ More Plant Mass/ Higher Yield/ Higher Quality


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## Jcue81 (Mar 6, 2022)

Tossing airstones in today, lol. You guys are so fucking rad. #science


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## McShnutz (Mar 6, 2022)

One last pointer and then I'll leave this alone.
Next time you dump in LAB weather it's top or bottom, THINK, "WHERE DID I JUST PUT THIS"? I put it into an AEROBIC ENVIRONMENT. Roots need air, were not making fermented root soup and that's what LAB does in an ANEROBIC ENVIRONMENT, it ferments. Increased oxygen only enhances its other abilities and that's why we add it to our substrates and foliar spray with it. If you want it anaerobic abilities and to culture it, make fertilizer or more LAB.


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## Jcue81 (Mar 6, 2022)

McShnutz said:


> One last pointer and then I'll leave this alone.
> Next time you dump in LAB weather it's top or bottom, THINK, "WHERE DID I JUST PUT THIS"? I put it into an AEROBIC ENVIRONMENT. Roots need air, were not making fermented root soup and that's what LAB does in an ANEROBIC ENVIRONMENT, it ferments. Increased oxygen only enhances its other abilities and that's why we add it to our substrates and foliar spray with it. If you want it anaerobic abilities and to culture it, make fertilizer or more LAB.


So it sounds like airstones are essential when using LABs? EM in an anaerobic environment don’t have that issue? Is the earthbox (SIPs) truely anaerobic with the air gap in the res? i understood it to be somewhere in the middle-not truly anaerobic. When using EM does an airstone also provide the same benefits as when using LABs?


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## McShnutz (Mar 6, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> So it sounds like airstones are essential when using LABs? EM in an anaerobic environment don’t have that issue? Is the earthbox (SIPs) truely anaerobic with the air gap in the res? i understood it to be somewhere in the middle-not truly anaerobic. When using EM does an airstone also provide the same benefits as when using LABs?


I tend to revert when referencing LAB and use EM (Efficient Microbes) in its place. Both are the same. 
But it is worth noting that not all EM inoculate serums are equal. Some may have more purple sulfur bacteria (PSB) or higher counts of yeast. They'll all contain LAB. 

The product EM1 by Terraganix contains a multitude of microbial inputs. Don't by into the hype, I did years ago. Used the last couple oz. In the bottle to culture some homemade shit. I've exhausted it since and went the rice wash way to capture the bacterium. I won't discriminate against EM1 as it's a good product but I've seen better results from using homemade. Especially as a foliar spray with a little bit of aloe.


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## myke (Mar 6, 2022)

Man I can here the sound now of 5 air stones sitting in a 1/2" of water.

Back at the beginning of this thread air stones were found to make no difference. I was going to add them coming from a hydro back ground, thought it would be a must. Surprised to find out its fine without.

A side by side would be cool to see.


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## natureboygrower (Mar 6, 2022)

I don't think stones do too much. I like to think they disturb FG life and just keep things moving, no smell. I've used them for a few years so it's just habit now.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 6, 2022)

myke said:


> Man I can here the sound now of 5 air stones sitting in a 1/2" of water.
> 
> Back at the beginning of this thread air stones were found to make no difference. I was going to add them coming from a hydro back ground, thought it would be a must. Surprised to find out its fine without.
> 
> A side by side would be cool to see.


I feel the same way. I really don't worry about microbes in the res. There's plenty in my soil, and the constant migration of worms, I believe will bring microbes into the res anyways. I'm more worried about constant water motion washing out my wicks. Maybe in a DIY sip with a bigger res I might be tempted to use one though.


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## natureboygrower (Mar 6, 2022)

I use the basic blue bar stones. 10" long or so. Only problem is if you fill your res a little high, the bubbling can cause minor overflow. Very minimal.


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## BigGpops (Mar 6, 2022)

Used them last grow on smaller plants that were behind, they caught up and grew faster seem like, I used 2 in 1 gallon sips!


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 6, 2022)

McShnutz said:


> LAB is very effective at improving pore space in soil/soil ventilation
> 
> LAB increases the solubility of fertiliser
> 
> ...


Hey bud,
How long is LABS good for? I have some in the fridge without a sugar source that is almost a year old. Heard it can last a year in the fridge, then would need molasses or brown sugar added to extend shelf life. Any experience?


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## McShnutz (Mar 6, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Hey bud,
> How long is LABS good for? I have some in the fridge without a sugar source that is almost a year old. Heard it can last a year in the fridge, then would need molasses or brown sugar added to extend shelf life. Any experience?


At that age I'd use it to culture a new batch. Then add molasses to that and make shelf stabilized. Burn up what you'd have left of the old any way you can. I'd go the nutrient ferment way and those can be made shelf stabilized as well. I love playing around with input ingredients and their values to formulate a nutrient extract tailored to each growth phase. 
You can get a good 6-9 months on a self stabilized batch, I've still got some from over 1 year ago in 1 gal milk jugs. 
Shelf stabilized kept in the fridge, could probably last yrs. 
Stabilized just means that the microbes have been "put to sleep".


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 6, 2022)

McShnutz said:


> At that age I'd use it to culture a new batch. Then add molasses to that and make shelf stabilized. Burn up what you'd have left of the old any way you can. I'd go the nutrient ferment way and those can be made shelf stabilized as well. I love playing around with input ingredients and their values to formulate a nutrient extract tailored to each growth phase.
> You can get a good 6-9 months on a self stabilized batch, I've still got some from over 1 year ago in 1 gal milk jugs.
> Shelf stabilized kept in the fridge, could probably last yrs.
> Stabilized just means that the microbes have been "put to sleep".


To culture a new batch, would I just add a bit to the milk/ricewash?


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## McShnutz (Mar 6, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> To culture a new batch, would I just add a bit to the milk/ricewash?


Serum into milk.
If you notice it's taking longer to fully curdle and displace the whey it's safe to assume the serum has degraded. And in that instance, I'd culture a new serum starting with a rice wash.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 6, 2022)

McShnutz said:


> Serum into milk.
> If you notice it's taking longer to fully curdle and displace the whey it's safe to assume the serum has degraded. And in that instance, I'd culture a new serum starting with a rice wash.


Thank you @McShnutz


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 6, 2022)

McShnutz said:


> I tend to revert when referencing LAB and use EM (Efficient Microbes) in its place. Both are the same.
> But it is worth noting that not all EM inoculate serums are equal. Some may have more purple sulfur bacteria (PSB) or higher counts of yeast. They'll all contain LAB.
> 
> The product EM1 by Terraganix contains a multitude of microbial inputs. Don't by into the hype, I did years ago. Used the last couple oz. In the bottle to culture some homemade shit. I've exhausted it since and went the rice wash way to capture the bacterium. I won't discriminate against EM1 as it's a good product but I've seen better results from using homemade. Especially as a foliar spray with a little bit of aloe.


Have you tried Photosynthesis+? There is a diy recipe out there. I made some recently, but it’s heinous and haven’t cracked the seal.


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## McShnutz (Mar 6, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Thank you @McShnutz


Anytime 


CrunchBerries said:


> Have you tried Photosynthesis+? There is a diy recipe out there. I made some recently, but it’s heinous and haven’t cracked the seal.


I have, and I have some left in a qt. It's very high in Purple sulfur bacteria, hence it smelling like rotten eggs. I use it mainly to mist the worm farms. But I'll combine LAB and Photo+ for foliar. Great product, and everything else that Microbe Life sells.


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## McShnutz (Mar 6, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Have you tried Photosynthesis+? There is a diy recipe out there. I made some recently, but it’s heinous and haven’t cracked the seal.


I didn't know there was a DIY for PSB. Thanks for the heads up, I'll dig around.

What do you mean heinous?


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 6, 2022)

McShnutz said:


> I didn't know there was a DIY for PSB. Thanks for the heads up, I'll dig around.
> 
> What do you mean heinous?


The smell

Here’s the link the the recipe: https://overgrow.com/t/diy-photosynthesis-plus-psb-pnsb-cyanobacteria-recipes/61213


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## McShnutz (Mar 6, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> The smell
> 
> Here’s the link the the recipe: https://overgrow.com/t/diy-photosynthesis-plus-psb-pnsb-cyanobacteria-recipes/61213


I have a pond at the park that I think would be ideal to capture these microbes from. I may just build an incubator that's illuminated for year round cultures.
Thanks for the resource!!


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 6, 2022)

McShnutz said:


> Serum into milk.
> If you notice it's taking longer to fully curdle and displace the whey it's safe to assume the serum has degraded. And in that instance, I'd culture a new serum starting with a rice wash.


Sorry to ask, but at what ratio of serum to milk?


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## McShnutz (Mar 6, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Sorry to ask, but at what ratio of serum to milk?


 I've never measured. Go figure 1 -2 cups/ gallon.


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## McShnutz (Mar 6, 2022)

I don't know if it makes any difference what type of rice is used for the wash, but I prefer to use black wild rice. It's local to my location. But I feel like I get a better inoculate from it, being technically an IMO
Potatoe Potato


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## myinvisiblecomplication (Mar 6, 2022)

Here's an easy way to make LABS


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 6, 2022)

McShnutz said:


> I don't know if it makes any difference what type of rice is used for the wash, but I prefer to use black wild rice. It's local to my location. But I feel like I get a better inoculate from it, being technically an IMO
> Potatoe Potato


Dude! You have really cleared up some long standing questions I’ve had on LABS and wether to airstone or not to airstone. Ive started a whole new list of things to get done and research. Thanks a ton brother!


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 6, 2022)

If I’m going to no till these sips the only place I can think to put an airstone that can be accessed to clean is down the fill tube. Thoughts?


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## Xsan (Mar 6, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> If I’m going to no till these sips the only place I can think to put an airstone that can be accessed to clean is down the fill tube. Thoughts?



I beleive that is how green ran it when he tried it. The final comparison was never followed up on thiugh


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## McShnutz (Mar 7, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> If I’m going to no till these sips the only place I can think to put an airstone that can be accessed to clean is down the fill tube. Thoughts?


Fill tube or through the side overflow hole


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 7, 2022)

Week 4 down....





Not real happy with this strain. Prolly more my fault than anything.... but still. Lol

Something is causing some sugar leaves to bend down. I don't believe it's a overwatering symptom (being in a sip), but I believe it's too much light. 



Any guesses?


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## McShnutz (Mar 7, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Week 4 down....
> 
> View attachment 5097752
> View attachment 5097753
> ...


Anytime the leaves look unhappy I always back off the light a little bit. 

Any way your pH is outta wack? What have you done recently and when did you notice these sugar leaves?


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 7, 2022)

McShnutz said:


> Anytime the leaves look unhappy I always back off the light a little bit.
> 
> Any way your pH is outta wack? What have you done recently and when did you notice these sugar leaves?


I haven't really done anything different. This strain did the same thing to me last time I flowered it. It was in dwc though. I don't believe it's ph. If it was ph, wouldn't there be other signs? 

I first noticed a week or so ago.


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## myke (Mar 7, 2022)

Do they stand straight out at lights on? If so heat humidity maybe? I dont think Id be worried. Strains a different.Whats next up?


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## McShnutz (Mar 7, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I haven't really done anything different. This strain did the same thing to me last time I flowered it. It was in dwc though. I don't believe it's ph. If it was ph, wouldn't there be other signs?
> 
> I first noticed a week or so ago.


Microbes have alot in helping disguise chlorosis and necrosis initially. So classic pH lesions don't show for about 1 week.

Both grows of this stain were done in sips?


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 7, 2022)

myke said:


> Do they stand straight out at lights on? If so heat humidity maybe? I dont think Id be worried. Strains a different.Whats next up?


Nah, they stay like that. I feel it's strain dependent, because it did it in dwc too. Same light though. I was just wondering if anybody had seen it before. It looks different than overwatered leaves.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 7, 2022)

McShnutz said:


> Microbes have alot in helping disguise chlorosis and necrosis initially. So classic pH lesions don't show for about 1 week.
> 
> Both grows of this stain were done in sips?


Nah, 1 in dwc. Same light though.


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## myke (Mar 7, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Nah, they stay like that. I feel it's strain dependent, because it did it in dwc too. Same light though. I was just wondering if anybody had seen it before. It looks different than overwatered leaves.


The big fan leaves look good, buds are growing so I wouldn't sweat it.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 7, 2022)

myke said:


> The big fan leaves look good, buds are growing so I wouldn't sweat it.


Yea, I guess I'll wait and see what happens. I see no other signs of stress and she's still growing.


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## Feo309 (Mar 8, 2022)

My last plant did that- some leaves curled down 90 degrees.

But it kept on building buds.

I figured letting it ride it out was probably safer given my lack of experience than trying to “fix” it.

Can’t argue with the results (‘cuz I get too stoned smoking it to argue. Lol).

But man, was doing nothing nerve-racking.


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## myke (Mar 8, 2022)

Ive had a few strains that do weird shit over the years,they simply get shown the door and I look for something new.


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## Jcue81 (Mar 9, 2022)

Hey guys- Two of the three clones I transplanted to earthboxes arent looking so hot. The Sour Diesel was looking hungry for magnesium prior to being transplanted.

The Apple Fritter was a bit pale prior to transplant and the wedding pie has been fine before and after transplant. New growth appears to be OK on the Diesel, but I’m not sure. I sprayed epsom salts twice on the diesel and added 5ml of cal mag to my water in the rez (using RO). They haven’t really begun to drink yet-still on their first rez. I think once they get moving into the new soil and drinking they will be happy but want a second opinion on if anything needs to be done immediately. In hindsight I would have watered them in with a compost tea. I have had success using this exact soil mix in a large bed. (Coot mix using high quality local worm castings)

Sour Diesel this past Saturday just before transplanting showing signs of mag deficiency -It was in a one gallon of Roots Organic and had not been fed for 3 weeks and was getting only RO water. (Ooops!)



Some shots of the Sour this morning.




Here is the Apple Fritter (left) and the Wedding Pie (right) immediately after transplant. Apple Fritter appeared a bit paler than the Pie on the right Red stems were due to an overwatering right when I got them 

Here they are this morning, 5 days later.
Fritter:

Pie:


I appreciate all feedback and I’m sorry to muck up this awesome thread with some noob plant troubleshooting issues, but I‘d really like the opinon of this group.

Side note- this cut of Sour Diesel is the real deal old school cut from the Albany NY crew. (Mike Klopp’s cut) If anyone would like a cutting I’m looking to share this far and wide as I’ve been searching for this plant for a long time.

Have a great day everyone!!


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## Xsan (Mar 9, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Hey guys- Two of the three clones I transplanted to earthboxes arent looking so hot. The Sour Diesel was looking hungry for magnesium prior to being transplanted.
> 
> The Apple Fritter was a bit pale prior to transplant and the wedding pie has been fine before and after transplant. New growth appears to be OK on the Diesel, but I’m not sure. I sprayed epsom salts twice on the diesel and added 5ml of cal mag to my water in the rez (using RO). They haven’t really begun to drink yet-still on their first rez. I think once they get moving into the new soil and drinking they will be happy but want a second opinion on if anything needs to be done immediately. In hindsight I would have watered them in with a compost tea. I have had success using this exact soil mix in a large bed. (Coot mix using high quality local worm castings)
> 
> ...


I used big 6 from b.a.s. when I did my transplant, seemed to help her adjust


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## Jcue81 (Mar 9, 2022)

Xsan said:


> I used big 6 from b.a.s. when I did my transplant, seemed to help her adjust


I have that. Did you just water it in?


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## Xsan (Mar 9, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> I have that. Did you just water it in?



I foliar sprayed for the first 2 weeks. Once a week iirc


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 9, 2022)

Xsan said:


> I foliar sprayed for the first 2 weeks. Once a week iirc


big 6 has humics, no? Isn't that supposed to be better watered in?


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## Xsan (Mar 9, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> big 6 has humics, no? Isn't that supposed to be better watered in?


Its chelated through humics according their site. Probably is better watered in but they have a foliar mix listed and my plant did seem to settle in after I applied but could have simply been timing or placebo effect.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 9, 2022)

Xsan said:


> Its chelated through humics according their site. Probably is better watered in but they have a foliar mix listed and my plant did seem to settle in after I applied but could have simply been timing or placebo effect.


I usually water in about 500ml once a month. Plants seem to like it. Water soluble humics are powerful. A lil bit goes a long way.


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## weedstoner420 (Mar 9, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Hey guys- Two of the three clones I transplanted to earthboxes arent looking so hot. The Sour Diesel was looking hungry for magnesium prior to being transplanted.
> 
> The Apple Fritter was a bit pale prior to transplant and the wedding pie has been fine before and after transplant. New growth appears to be OK on the Diesel, but I’m not sure. I sprayed epsom salts twice on the diesel and added 5ml of cal mag to my water in the rez (using RO). They haven’t really begun to drink yet-still on their first rez. I think once they get moving into the new soil and drinking they will be happy but want a second opinion on if anything needs to be done immediately. In hindsight I would have watered them in with a compost tea. I have had success using this exact soil mix in a large bed. (Coot mix using high quality local worm castings)
> 
> ...


Are the in the same space/lighting as before transplant? Might just be getting used to the new environment, I wouldn't throw too much at them right away. Maybe even back off the light some if it's brighter/closer than it was before.


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## Jcue81 (Mar 10, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Are the in the same space/lighting as before transplant? Might just be getting used to the new environment, I wouldn't throw too much at them right away. Maybe even back off the light some if it's brighter/closer than it was before.


Yeah, they’re in the same tent temps and RH hasn’t changed. I’ll cut the light back a bit while they’re acclimating. It hasnt been a week yet so I’ll be patient. Really hoping the diesel pulls through this magnesium issue.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 10, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Yeah, they’re in the same tent temps and RH hasn’t changed. I’ll cut the light back a bit while they’re acclimating. It hasnt been a week yet so I’ll be patient. Really hoping the diesel pulls through this magnesium issue.


Use some langbeinite.

I dunno what your levels are, but you could maybe try a small dose of Neptune's harvest fish and seaweed.


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## weedstoner420 (Mar 10, 2022)

Growbox update: the new one is in beast mode, and finally setting buds after like 5 weeks on 12/12. Seems like a while but it was barely a seedling when I put it in the tent:


And I was trying to keep this Crnklz clone on the shorter side, thinking she might be sensitive to high light levels... The method: tiny clone, topped during the first week of 12/12. The result: 6-inch tall mound of buds, still wrinkly af:


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## Xsan (Mar 11, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Growbox update: the new one is in beast mode, and finally setting buds after like 5 weeks on 12/12. Seems like a while but it was barely a seedling when I put it in the tent:
> View attachment 5099086
> 
> And I was trying to keep this Crnklz clone on the shorter side, thinking she might be sensitive to high light levels... The method: tiny clone, topped during the first week of 12/12. The result: 6-inch tall mound of buds, still wrinkly af:
> View attachment 5099087



Very interesting. Technically it would not count as a plant in my state if it stayed under 6 inches.


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## Jcue81 (Mar 11, 2022)

Xsan said:


> Very interesting. Technically it would not count as a plant in my state if it stayed under 6 inches.


Wow! How cool is that, bonsai mums for the win, lol. I’d love to be able to keep a ton of moms and just flower out three at a time. I’ll have to see if there is a similar provision here in CT.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 11, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Growbox update: the new one is in beast mode, and finally setting buds after like 5 weeks on 12/12. Seems like a while but it was barely a seedling when I put it in the tent:
> View attachment 5099086
> 
> And I was trying to keep this Crnklz clone on the shorter side, thinking she might be sensitive to high light levels... The method: tiny clone, topped during the first week of 12/12. The result: 6-inch tall mound of buds, still wrinkly af:
> View attachment 5099087


very nice


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## weedstoner420 (Mar 12, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> very nice


Got some water roots this time too:


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## Tim Fox (Mar 12, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Got some water roots this time too:
> View attachment 5100620


Hey that's sweet, are tou using the grow box like me? Different than the earthbox


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## weedstoner420 (Mar 12, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> Hey that's sweet, are tou using the grow box like me? Different than the earthbox


Yup! Pretty sure your pic of water roots a long time ago was what convinced me to go with the Growbox


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## Tim Fox (Mar 12, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Yup! Pretty sure your pic of water roots a long time ago was what convinced me to go with the Growbox


I really like filling the reservoir from the front without any over flow or spillage


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## Polly Wog (Mar 12, 2022)

Next round 4 patio pickers. First time.


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## weedstoner420 (Mar 12, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> I really like filling the reservoir from the front without any over flow or spillage


That too!


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## Tim Fox (Mar 12, 2022)

My little sip grow tonight, I've been having health problems and I can barely use my hands, so I kept them short this grow thank goodness, it's been very hands off, water only


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## weedstoner420 (Mar 12, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> My little sip grow tonight, I've been having health problems and I can barely use my hands, View attachment 5100740so I kept them short this grow thank goodness, it's been very hands off, water only


Looking sharp Tim! It's great finding the right combo of plant size, container size, and amendments that you can just go water only the whole way


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## CWF (Mar 12, 2022)

How long after transplanting, say, a 3-wk old seedling into the earth/grow box or SIP do you first fill the res? I transplanted a couple days ago and top-watered it in very well, put on the cover, and the moisture in the box is good right now. Should I give it a week and then fill?


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 12, 2022)

CWF said:


> How long after transplanting, say, a 3-wk old seedling into the earth/grow box or SIP do you first fill the res? I transplanted a couple days ago and top-watered it in very well, put on the cover, and the moisture in the box is good right now. Should I give it a week and then fill?


When you notice the plant is growing, put water in the res.


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## CWF (Mar 12, 2022)

Pretty sure it already is! Sounds good.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 13, 2022)

CWF said:


> How long after transplanting, say, a 3-wk old seedling into the earth/grow box or SIP do you first fill the res? I transplanted a couple days ago and top-watered it in very well, put on the cover, and the moisture in the box is good right now. Should I give it a week and then fill?


Good Morning Y’all,
I keep my reservoir filled from initial setup till the final curtain call.
Here is my current project of 2 Bodhi Strawberry Temple @ 35F~ Huzzah!


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## Tim Fox (Mar 13, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Looking sharp Tim! It's great finding the right combo of plant size, container size, and amendments that you can just go water only the whole way


I see a rheumatologist this Wednesday, I hope to get some medicine to help my hands , thank goodness this grow has been simple, plus I flipped to flower earlier to keep them short, I might have to get some help from the family when it's time to harvest


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## CWF (Mar 13, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> I see a rheumatologist this Wednesday, I hope to get some medicine to help my hands , thank goodness this grow has been simple, plus I flipped to flower earlier to keep them short, I might have to get some help from the family when it's time to harvest


Dude I am fighting RA which is a big issue, as the traditional meds aren't working. Prednisone is about the only thing that helps. I am on methotrexate + hydrochloroquine. Hands and elbows hurt, and I can't play guitar (I am semi-pro bluegrass and blues lead guitar). It is so bad I am selling amps and gear. Guess I'll be a retired guitarist soon.


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## myke (Mar 13, 2022)

Day 35 of 12/12. Added screws to the tote lids to get a better seal. Some sand around the base to block the opening. Seams to have helped. Less fliers around. Also top watering with dunk water. Should help.


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## weedstoner420 (Mar 13, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> I see a rheumatologist this Wednesday, I hope to get some medicine to help my hands , thank goodness this grow has been simple, plus I flipped to flower earlier to keep them short, I might have to get some help from the family when it's time to harvest


Dang, I hope it goes well! My partner has an autoimmune condition (not RA but similar) that mostly affects the joints in her back and hips. I know (secondhand) how frustrating it can be going through the medical system and trying to find a treatment that works... In her case it seemed like dietary changes, cutting out gluten, alcohol, and dairy, made the biggest difference. Every body is different though and what works for one person is not necessarily right for everyone, just figured I'd put it out there. 

I really hope you are able to find relief, and that your family is there to help with the trimming, cuz who likes to do that anyway?


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 13, 2022)

myke said:


> Day 31 of 12/12. Added screws to the tote lids to get a better seal. Some sand around the base to block the opening. Seams to have helped. Less fliers around. Also top watering with dunk water. Should help. View attachment 5101248View attachment 5101249View attachment 5101250View attachment 5101251


Damn bro! Lookin great! You've done a good job keepin up.


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## myke (Mar 13, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Damn bro! Lookin great! You've done a good job keepin up.


I think its actually 5 weeks today, not day 31.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 13, 2022)

myke said:


> I think its actually 5 weeks today, not day 31.


Doesn't really matter if you're waiting til it's done anyways.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 14, 2022)

CWF said:


> Dude I am fighting RA which is a big issue, as the traditional meds aren't working. Prednisone is about the only thing that helps. I am on methotrexate + hydrochloroquine. Hands and elbows hurt, and I can't play guitar (I am semi-pro bluegrass and blues lead guitar). It is so bad I am selling amps and gear. Guess I'll be a retired guitarist soon.


i too like to play guitar,, i dont know if i ever will again at this point,, I joined a big RA facebook group and i am familiar with the medication your using based on peoples posts,, I am not sure what meds they may put me on but i am kinda hoping to go straight to Biologics, like humira for instance, this has been the worst pain of my life, to the point of complete disability at times, part of me wants to ignore it,,, with the beleif that it will go away on its own,, but the other part of me is coming to grips that what ever is happening is bad and i need meds now,,, its good to know i am not alone


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## Tim Fox (Mar 14, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Dang, I hope it goes well! My partner has an autoimmune condition (not RA but similar) that mostly affects the joints in her back and hips. I know (secondhand) how frustrating it can be going through the medical system and trying to find a treatment that works... In her case it seemed like dietary changes, cutting out gluten, alcohol, and dairy, made the biggest difference. Every body is different though and what works for one person is not necessarily right for everyone, just figured I'd put it out there.
> 
> I really hope you are able to find relief, and that your family is there to help with the trimming, cuz who likes to do that anyway?


thank you,, we have been gluten free for over 4 years now,,, ( 5 this summer),, my wife had severe reactions to wheat ( modern hybridized wheat), took us a while to figure that out, but wow what a differance, I also stopped drinking booze for over 3 months and did no dairy for 2 months and still my body has broken and this RA stuff has come on strong, its part of what scares me is i believe in the power of diet to help with health and even with a low carb lifestyle and gluten free i still went off the cliff ,,, grrr,, it sucks , but it is what it is,, im at the end of my rope and wednesday i will probably be goingn to the pharmacy to get meds, (that was hard to type because i dont want to go on meds),,, if they prescribe biologics drugs those things are like 5-6 thousand per month,,, im going to have to pay out the nose for good health insurance now,, i am 59 and a long ways from 65 for medicare

my cervical spine is fused solid at the top of my spine, i cant bend my neck,, i was diagnosed with anklyosing sponolitis about 7 years ago, is that what your partner has?


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## weedstoner420 (Mar 14, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> thank you,, we have been gluten free for over 4 years now,,, ( 5 this summer),, my wife had severe reactions to wheat ( modern hybridized wheat), took us a while to figure that out, but wow what a differance, I also stopped drinking booze for over 3 months and did no dairy for 2 months and still my body has broken and this RA stuff has come on strong, its part of what scares me is i believe in the power of diet to help with health and even with a low carb lifestyle and gluten free i still went off the cliff ,,, grrr,, it sucks , but it is what it is,, im at the end of my rope and wednesday i will probably be goingn to the pharmacy to get meds, (that was hard to type because i dont want to go on meds),,, if they prescribe biologics drugs those things are like 5-6 thousand per month,,, im going to have to pay out the nose for good health insurance now,, i am 59 and a long ways from 65 for medicare
> 
> my cervical spine is fused solid at the top of my spine, i cant bend my neck,, i was diagnosed with anklyosing sponolitis about 7 years ago, is that what your partner has?


Man that does suck!... Yes ankylosing spondylitis is what she has. She went through few different meds, sulfasalazine, methotrexate, and finally an injectable biologic that provided some relief but was way too expensive after the first few months. Thankfully dietary changes have made enough of a difference for her to not need prescription meds now, but we're only in our 30's so who knows what the next few decades will have in store...

I feel for you man, I hope you and your doc find something that helps you. It definitely seems like autoimmune conditions are not super well understood and modern medicine definitely has a long way to go as far as understanding and treating them.

Wishing you all the best in the garden and in life!


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 14, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Man that does suck!... Yes ankylosing spondylitis is what she has. She went through few different meds, sulfasalazine, methotrexate, and finally an injectable biologic that provided some relief but was way too expensive after the first few months. Thankfully dietary changes have made enough of a difference for her to not need prescription meds now, but we're only in our 30's so who knows what the next few decades will have in store...
> 
> I feel for you man, I hope you and your doc find something that helps you. It definitely seems like autoimmune conditions are not super well understood and modern medicine definitely has a long way to go as far as understanding and treating them.
> 
> Wishing you all the best in the garden and in life!


Thanks, I wish you 2 all the best also,


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## CWF (Mar 14, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> i too like to play guitar,, i dont know if i ever will again at this point,, I joined a big RA facebook group and i am familiar with the medication your using based on peoples posts,, I am not sure what meds they may put me on but i am kinda hoping to go straight to Biologics, like humira for instance, this has been the worst pain of my life, to the point of complete disability at times, part of me wants to ignore it,,, with the beleif that it will go away on its own,, but the other part of me is coming to grips that what ever is happening is bad and i need meds now,,, its good to know i am not alone


Check out Dr. Berg on youtube, he has a show on RA. I started his vitamin therapy and it worked well for over a year, but then I relapsed and had to go to a real rheumatologist. The good news is, the therapy is almost identical to the IMASK covid19 protocol. My whole family got covid, except me. They are all vaxxed and I am not. Weird. Now I also have a big bottle of hydrxychloroquine, so I'm vax and covid free, LOL. Looks like the methotrexate+hydrochloroquine is not working for my RA, so they are putting me on a biologic next. Best of luck with that! Watch the Berg vid!

I went to a bluegrass jam, but I took a double dose of prednisone first, and I was able to rattle off some nice fiddle tunes like I used to - but I paid for it the next day. Ow.


----------



## Tim Fox (Mar 14, 2022)

CWF said:


> Check out Dr. Berg on youtube, he has a show on RA. I started his vitamin therapy and it worked well for over a year, but then I relapsed and had to go to a real rheumatologist. The good news is, the therapy is almost identical to the IMASK covid19 protocol. My whole family got covid, except me. They are all vaxxed and I am not. Weird. Now I also have a big bottle of hydrxychloroquine, so I'm vax and covid free, LOL. Looks like the methotrexate+hydrochloroquine is not working for my RA, so they are putting me on a biologic next. Best of luck with that! Watch the Berg vid!
> 
> I went to a bluegrass jam, but I took a double dose of prednisone first, and I was able to rattle off some nice fiddle tunes like I used to - but I paid for it the next day. Ow.


Isn't that something, I have found the same issue , start to feel somewhat better so I do a few things with my hands , not allot but some house chores and that night or next day I am paying for it dearly with crippling pain, 
I'm so bummed about going on meds , I managed to stay off of them going on 7bplus years , now I'm 59 and shits slowly Hitting the fan

In the big Facebook ra group there are allot of stories about people being on biologics for 10 or 20 years a d call it a miracle, I hope that's the case for me, there are a few who had to try different biologics before landing on one that helped them, so I am crossing my fingers for a good outcome, I've done several years of low carb and Dr berg is a corner stone in that world , I'm going to go search for his ra videos Thanks for the tip


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## CWF (Mar 14, 2022)

To get thread back on topic, here is my first EB/SIP pic (first pic of any kind, here on RIU). Is is a cannarado purple bubblegum fem about 24 days from seed. On the right is a Bodhi Silver Sunshine, awaiting results from FF sex test before it gets a box.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 14, 2022)

CWF said:


> To get thread back on topic, here is my first EB/SIP pic (first pic of any kind, here on RIU). Is is a cannarado purple bubblegum fem about 24 days from seed. On the right is a Bodhi Silver Sunshine, awaiting results from FF sex test before it gets a box.
> View attachment 5101693


you have a couple of winners there,, should be a good grow


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## Tim Fox (Mar 14, 2022)

Light Saber,


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 14, 2022)

Week 5 down..... still not happy with this strain. I don't like how the sugar leaves look. 





It's a shame because this first run no till, is working really well. I don't see any signs of deficiency, though I feed her heavy. I'm hoping the buds get as big as they did last time, but the stretch looks more pronounced.


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## CWF (Mar 15, 2022)

Well, sex test from Farmer Freeman of the 21-day from seed Bodhi Silver Sunshine came back, and the verdict is MALE. A death sentence has been executed, sadly for him. 
I wanted to try the sex test thing once, just for s&g, anyway. Saves a week or two of vegging, if you don't want to wait for pre-flowers to show, but costs about $25 plus shipping, so there's that.


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## Jcue81 (Mar 16, 2022)

My earthbox plants are hating me right now and I’m not sure what to do. If any of you fine cultivators want to take a look and help a brother out I would be immensely appreciative! 

https://rollitup.org/t/organic-earthbox-ph-issue.1071638/


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 16, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> My earthbox plants are hating me right now and I’m not sure what to do. If any of you fine cultivators want to take a look and help a brother out I would be immensely appreciative!
> 
> https://rollitup.org/t/organic-earthbox-ph-issue.1071638/


My only thoughts from reading your post was that the soil wasn’t given sufficient time to cook. Is the soil warm?
Also, it doesn’t sound like you used a ph buffer like oyster shell or dolomite lime till later. When I set my sips up, I add a layer of soil to the bottom then add 1 cup per cubic foot of oyster shell. So two cups in a earthbox. Then add the remaining soil. Think lasagna when setting these up.
With all that said, SIPs have a way of correcting any issues that arise on their own. Remember to always LITFA! 
Hope this helps !


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## Jcue81 (Mar 16, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> My only thoughts from reading your post was that the soil wasn’t given sufficient time to cook. Is the soil warm?
> Also, it doesn’t sound like you used a ph buffer like oyster shell or dolomite lime till later. When I set my sips up, I add a layer of soil to the bottom then add 1 cup per cubic foot of oyster shell. So two cups in a earthbox. Then add the remaining soil. Think lasagna when setting these up.
> With all that said, SIPs have a way of correcting any issues that arise on their own. Remember to always LITFA!
> How this helps !


Thank you @CrunchBerries. I used 1 cup of Coast of Maine Lobster meal per cu/ft. is oyster flour a better choice going forward?

you know, when I put my hand on the mulch cover it does feel pretty warm. I assumed it was just the dark color of the cover combined with the lights, but yeah, soil might be cooking. Just wait it out?

i am going to make sure to always have 50 gallons of soil cooked and already to go moving forward. Really appreciate your reply bud!

edit: what is LIFTA?


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 16, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Thank you @CrunchBerries. I used 1 cup of Coast of Maine Lobster meal per cu/ft. is oyster flour a better choice going forward?
> 
> you know, when I put my hand on the mulch cover it does feel pretty warm. I assumed it was just the dark color of the cover combined with the lights, but yeah, soil might be cooking. Just wait it out?
> 
> ...


Lobster shell would be be used as a nutrient, oyster shell or dolomite lime are used as ph buffers. Although lobster shell may have a natural ph’ing buffer similar to egg shell. Not sure. (Off to google) 
Yes, just wait it out.

Basically the way I run it is to have an acidic/bacteria dominate bottom layer, a neutral middle and a more fungal dominate/alkaline top. Certain nutrients are more available at different ph levels, so the plants take what they want, when they want.

Leave It The Fuck Alone. Words to live by


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## Jcue81 (Mar 16, 2022)

Just did some quick googling and it appears lobster shells are mostly made of chitin. Good stuff to add to a mix, but it doesn’t sound like it has a high calcium carbonate content. My hunch was mag was being locked out due to low PH and that would explain it if true. I will use OSF in future mixes. That leaves me wondering if I should topdress and rough in some dolomite to the top few inches?


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## myke (Mar 16, 2022)

The domo will take awhile and may end up messing your soil up in a months time. Look for something water soluble if you think you need it asap. I don’t think you do. 
next time feed when there in the one gallon pots before transplant.
If your worried about loosing them take a clone or two.


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## Jcue81 (Mar 16, 2022)

myke said:


> The domo will take awhile and may end up messing your soil up in a months time. Look for something water soluble if you think you need it asap. I don’t think you do.
> next time feed when there in the one gallon pots before transplant.
> If your worried about loosing them take a clone or two.


I grabbed cuts this past Friday and they look pretty good considering how shitty the plants look.

If true that Lobster meal is not made of calcium carbonate and has no ability to buffer PH, wouldn’t my peat based mix be way too low Ph wise? it appears to be a calcium/magnesium issue right? Wouldn’t it make sense that my low ph has locked out magnesium and calcium which are absorbed more in neutral/higher ph soils?


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## myke (Mar 16, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> I grabbed cuts this past Friday and they look pretty good considering how shitty the plants look.
> 
> If true that Lobster meal is not made of calcium carbonate and has no ability to buffer PH, wouldn’t my peat based mix be way too low Ph wise? it appears to be a calcium/magnesium issue right? Wouldn’t it make sense that my low ph has locked out magnesium and calcium which are absorbed more in neutral/higher ph soils?


If that’s the case then add some ph up to a little water and top water around the plant ,see if it improves.


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## Jcue81 (Mar 16, 2022)

myke said:


> If that’s the case then add some ph up to a little water and top water around the plant ,see if it improves.


Didn’t think of that, I will do so and see if they improve. Appreciate your help bud.


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## myinvisiblecomplication (Mar 16, 2022)

Lucky Luke said:


> Pineapple express #2 in a little commercial sip. http://www.decor.com.au/garden/self-watering-pots/
> 
> View attachment 4000181


I know this is a long time ago but how were you keeping up with the plants nutrient needs in a small pot like this growing in soil?


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## Lucky Luke (Mar 17, 2022)

myinvisiblecomplication said:


> I know this is a long time ago but how were you keeping up with the plants nutrient needs in a small pot like this growing in soil?


I was watering with bottled nutes from memory.

I know grow in 100% Perlite in"hempy" buckets.


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## myinvisiblecomplication (Mar 17, 2022)

Lucky Luke said:


> I was watering with bottled nutes from memory.
> 
> I know grow in 100% Perlite in"hempy" buckets.


Yeah ok I was wondering how you were keeping up with nutes in a small pot with soil.. but additional nutes makes sense


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## Xsan (Mar 20, 2022)

Started yesterday and I was thinking heat or lights but I'm wondering if I have something else going on. Is my sip drowning her? Leaf temps were 75-80f and ppfd was at 375. I dropped it to 350 today until I figure this one out. Do I need to drain the water and let her dry out. I figured this sip was dryer than my first one I setup so drowning it seems bizarre but...


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## myke (Mar 20, 2022)

Ok so must of been the effects of wake and bake last week. Today is 100% sure day 35 of 12/12.
Sure liking the bigger sips and also packing more dirt into my original ones. Plants are healthy. Coco plant is doing good. Always have to remember to feed her. Get used to the sips and watering whenever I have time.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 20, 2022)

Xsan said:


> Started yesterday and I was thinking heat or lights but I'm wondering if I have something else going on. Is my sip drowning her? Leaf temps were 75-80f and ppfd was at 375. I dropped it to 350 today until I figure this one out. Do I need to drain the water and let her dry out. I figured this sip was dryer than my first one I setup so drowning it seems bizarre but...


Looks like heat stress imo.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 20, 2022)

Fall colors


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## Xsan (Mar 20, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Looks like heat stress imo.


That was my thought to but didn't think I was this far off. I lowered light intensity and temp today. I'll check on her later and see if she is happier


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## myinvisiblecomplication (Mar 22, 2022)

Who's still using air pumps in the res? There was a lot of talk about them early on in this thread and people having great results but not seeing so much talk about it now..

So who still using them?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Mar 22, 2022)

Well I officially moved to the dark side! 4x4 soil bed is set up... a few things I would do differently
.. mix my soil in small batches and then add it to the bed.. mixing all this soil is a pain in the ass (and my back today) in the bed. So far that is all the further I have gotten. Going to transplant 4 plants into this today and add a screen and fill it out and away we go!


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## Tim Fox (Mar 22, 2022)

myinvisiblecomplication said:


> Who's still using air pumps in the res? There was a lot of talk about them early on in this thread and people having great results but not seeing so much talk about it now..
> 
> So who still using them?


I never saw a difference


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## McShnutz (Mar 22, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> I never saw a difference


I'll be doing a comparison this summer. Presently getting all my biostimulants made and a I have to harvest a few ingredients I use in my compost tumblers. Fresh water lake weed is one of them.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 22, 2022)

McShnutz said:


> I'll be doing a comparison this summer. Presently getting all my biostimulants made and a I have to harvest a few ingredients I use in my compost tumblers. Fresh water lake weed is one of them.


What type of fresh water weed are you harvesting? We have an abundance of hydrilla and was thinking of fermenting some.


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## McShnutz (Mar 22, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> What type of fresh water weed are you harvesting? We have an abundance of hydrilla and was thinking of fermenting some.


I'm not sure what variety, I only know it by its look. I can fuck around on Google and dig it up. But mabey you might know....
The lake weeds (foliage?) look like dill. Frilled and stranded.


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## McShnutz (Mar 22, 2022)

It's called coontail


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## Polly Wog (Mar 24, 2022)




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## Polly Wog (Mar 24, 2022)

First time for sips.


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## myke (Mar 24, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> First time for sips.


Sweet! Im 2 yrs in ahead of you.Keep feeding your dirt is what Ive learned.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 24, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> First time for sips.


Welcome! You’ve come to the right place. Feel free to ask questions or kick around ideas.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 25, 2022)

Good Afternoon,
Quick update from day 49F. 2 Strawberry Temple(Temple leaner?) in probiotic sips. Smells are Lemon, Pine, with maybe a melon thing. Super hype on these! Thinking they will finish up around week 9. Very Sticky and very Icky!


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## Xsan (Mar 25, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Good Afternoon,
> Quick update from day 49F. 2 Strawberry Temple(Temple leaner?) in probiotic sips. Smells are Lemon, Pine, with maybe a melon thing. Super hype on these! Thinking they will finish up around week 9. Very Sticky and very Icky!View attachment 5107802View attachment 5107803View attachment 5107804View attachment 5107806


Looking good crunch! Any tweaks to greens method on this round? I skipped aka forgot the root wise on transplant and haven't done the big 6 yet this round and I'm not seeing a huge difference from my last round.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 25, 2022)

Xsan said:


> Looking good crunch! Any tweaks to greens method on this round? I skipped aka forgot the root wise on transplant and haven't done the big 6 yet this round and I'm not seeing a huge difference from my last round.


Thanks man!
I have been top watering twice a week. Once with a blend of aloe, coconut, AgSil 16H potassium silicate. The 2nd with a SST and FulPower. Sometimes I’ll water in a Comfrey extract, but just occasionally.


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## Milky Weed (Mar 25, 2022)

Is there a difference between sips and hempys? I like the idea of both.


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## weedstoner420 (Mar 25, 2022)

Milky Weed said:


> Is there a difference between sips and hempys? I like the idea of both.


I'm sure there is some grey area with all the different variations on each, but in general sips = organic soil, small amount of medium ("wick(s)") submerged in plain water, hempy = inert medium, bottom couple inches fully submerged in liquid nutrient solution (usually synthetic). I'd consider hempy a form of drain-to-waste hydro (the "world of hempy" thread is in the dtw forum at least) and sips to be just bottom-watered soil growing with a clever pot design.


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## Milky Weed (Mar 25, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> I'm sure there is some grey area with all the different variations on each, but in general sips = organic soil, small amount of medium ("wick(s)") submerged in plain water, hempy = inert medium, bottom couple inches fully submerged in liquid nutrient solution (usually synthetic). I'd consider hempy a form of drain-to-waste hydro (the "world of hempy" thread is in the dtw forum at least) and sips to be just bottom-watered soil growing with a clever pot design.


Thanks! Makes sense now.


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## weedstoner420 (Mar 25, 2022)

Milky Weed said:


> Thanks! Makes sense now.


Fwiw, hempy and sips are the only two methods I have used for growing weed (other than seedlings and a few tiny moms), and I've had much greater success with the sips.


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## myke (Mar 25, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Fwiw, hempy and sips are the only two methods I have used for growing weed (other than seedlings and a few tiny moms), and I've had much greater success with the sips.


Ive tried all the ways of growing and SIPS with good soil wins hands down.


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## Tim Fox (Mar 27, 2022)

Sips are so darn easy, I gravitate towards easy


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 27, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> Sips are so darn easy, I gravitate towards easy


Not only easy, but they produce top quality herb!


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## myke (Mar 27, 2022)

Week 6 finished. Some doing really good some are slow. Last round I grew this Stunna strain did really good. This round buds are smaller. Plant is healthy. Only difference this round is I had more watts in my room. I had an HPS in there for heat. This round I’m definitely cooler but my widow plant is doing awesome. Funny. First pic is widow and stunna beside each other. Here’s widow normally she starts to brown out but so far she still whitesome frosted fruit cake.last run I had 1750 watts of lights. This run I’m at 1000 watts. Will see how much yield difference there is.


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## Polly Wog (Mar 27, 2022)

I'm on my 3rd day with sips. No transplant shock. The 3 in 7 gal bags got a bit of shock. But they were in 6 oz cups before transplant.


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## CWF (Mar 30, 2022)

'rado purple bubblegum at 38 days from seed.. flipping soon. Earth box with organic soil.. drinks about a gallon every 3-4 days. Quite the tumbleweed! Smells sweet and loud.


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## Lender420 (Mar 30, 2022)

myke said:


> Week 6 finished. Some doing really good some are slow. Last round I grew this Stunna strain did really good. This round buds are smaller. Plant is healthy. Only difference this round is I had more watts in my room. I had an HPS in there for heat. This round I’m definitely cooler but my widow plant is doing awesome. Funny. First pic is widow and stunna beside each other. View attachment 5108878Here’s widow normally she starts to brown out but so far she still whiteView attachment 5108879View attachment 5108880some frosted fruit cake.View attachment 5108881last run I had 1750 watts of lights. This run I’m at 1000 watts. Will see how much yield difference there is.


 WOW!!!


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## Polly Wog (Mar 31, 2022)

I'm thinking sips are boring. 5th day from transplant and zero shock just growth. I'll update at a week. I'm trying this with a tomato plant or 2. Outside. Lazy man's grow.


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## myke (Mar 31, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> I'm thinking sips are boring. 5th day from transplant and zero shock just growth. I'll update at a week. I'm trying this with a tomato plant or 2. Outside. Lazy man's grow.


Yes,the bigger the better.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 31, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> I'm thinking sips are boring. 5th day from transplant and zero shock just growth. I'll update at a week. I'm trying this with a tomato plant or 2. Outside. Lazy man's grow.


Boring is good.
Want non boring?
Switch to dwc.
It'll keep you up at night.


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## Polly Wog (Apr 1, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Boring is good.
> Want non boring?
> Switch to dwc.
> It'll keep you up at night.


I have. I wasn't complaining. Relax.


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## Polly Wog (Apr 1, 2022)




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## Polly Wog (Apr 1, 2022)

6 daze I think.


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 1, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> I have. I wasn't complaining. Relax.


I know. I was kidding. Lol


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## Polly Wog (Apr 1, 2022)

I need to vacuum. If this works until harvest I'll be amazed. I've watched the build a soil videos. But this is a straight recommended earth box grow. I used organicish fertilizer off the shelf from my local big box. 1 cup of dolomite and a strip of fertilizer. Gonna either kill them or something.


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## Kayaganja (Apr 1, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> I'm thinking sips are boring. 5th day from transplant and zero shock just growth. I'll update at a week. I'm trying this with a tomato plant or 2. Outside. Lazy man's grow.


You have time to wash your bong , boots , bike , car ,van , help the guy next start his grow if you get bored, LOLEST


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## Jcue81 (Apr 1, 2022)

got some fill tubes made for my earthboxes last night. Plants are looking pretty happy. Just finished week 1 of flower.


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## Tim Fox (Apr 1, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Boring is good.
> Want non boring?
> Switch to dwc.
> It'll keep you up at night.


Lol right!!!!!

Every time I consider doing some other method of growing I have to have that "is the new method easy or harder" conversation with myself


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## GenericEnigma (Apr 1, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> Lol right!!!!!
> 
> Every time I consider doing some other method of growing I have to have that "is the new method easy or harder" conversation with myself


Exactly! And every time I think about going back to watering by hand--I shudder.

Getting close to harvest!


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 1, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> Lol right!!!!!
> 
> Every time I consider doing some other method of growing I have to have that "is the new method easy or harder" conversation with myself


Unfortunately I started off with dwc. I like it a lot, it's just a lot more on the mind. Power outages, res temps, constant pH & EC adjustments, bennies or bleach. Organics was less stress ultimately, so I switched. The sips make it even easier.


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## myke (Apr 3, 2022)

Day 49. A pic of two buds,on the right smaller sip. On the left bigger sip. Same strain ,dirt ,light. Can see the difference more dirt makes. Both plants were close to the same size at transplant. Started lowering temps and humidity. Some random shots.


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## myke (Apr 3, 2022)

why the same pic shows up 3 times is beyond me


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## GrassBurner (Apr 4, 2022)

Loving these little sips!! Been so busy lately, had plants in 1 gallon pots waiting forever, they were small and sad. Finally got the sips built and fresh soil in them last Sunday. 





7 days later they're much happier and growing like weeds





Got some nice root action in a week, guessing the air stones are helping with that


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## weedstoner420 (Apr 4, 2022)

Growbox update...the beast is looking ferocious as usual. Got some pink pistils in there too which is cool.

Crnklz has about another week before chop. This is the healthiest I've seen her this late in the game, maybe the trick is keeping the light 3 feet away and training her as a ground cover...not expecting much yield from this one...

In the background there is a little bush bean seedling. I planted a few and this is the only one that made it, and it started out life with no cotyledons! Obviously it took a while to get going, but seems to be gaining some momentum now.

Happy SIPing y'all!


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## weedstoner420 (Apr 4, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Loving these little sips!! Been so busy lately, had plants in 1 gallon pots waiting forever, they were small and sad. Finally got the sips built and fresh soil in them last Sunday.
> 
> View attachment 5112972
> 
> ...


I just noticed the markings on the containers - those are only 3 gallons? Pretty amazing 1-week transformation...


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## GrassBurner (Apr 5, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> I just noticed the markings on the containers - those are only 3 gallons? Pretty amazing 1-week transformation...


Yeah 3 gallons of soil and about a 3 gallon res  The last run I started using fulvic acid to help break down the dry ammendments. Im gonna top dress once a week in flower, and water in with Neptune's Harvest and Ful-Power.

Whoever came up with sips, and coots for his soil mix deserve all the credit. I just plant seeds and water them  Went ahead and flipped the lights to 12/12, I only have 1 day a week to tend to them, I want the out of controllness to a minimum 

I couldn't believe what 7 days in a sip did for them!!


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## GrassBurner (Apr 5, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Growbox update...the beast is looking ferocious as usual. Got some pink pistils in there too which is cool.
> View attachment 5112796View attachment 5112797
> Crnklz has about another week before chop. This is the healthiest I've seen her this late in the game, maybe the trick is keeping the light 3 feet away and training her as a ground cover...not expecting much yield from this one...
> View attachment 5112798
> ...


Nice work!!


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## Tim Fox (Apr 5, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Yeah 3 gallons of soil and about a 3 gallon res  The last run I started using fulvic acid to help break down the dry ammendments. Im gonna top dress once a week in flower, and water in with Neptune's Harvest and Ful-Power.
> 
> Whoever came up with sips, and coots for his soil mix deserve all the credit. I just plant seeds and water them  Went ahead and flipped the lights to 12/12, I only have 1 day a week to tend to them, I want the out of controllness to a minimum
> 
> I couldn't believe what 7 days in a sip did for them!!


Are you going to put your nutes in the res? Or top water/feed? Awesome looking grow


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## GrassBurner (Apr 5, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> Are you going to put your nutes in the res? Or top water/feed? Awesome looking grow


Thanks!! For now I'm just gonna top dress, scratch it in, and water in with ful-power and Neptune's Harvest. If I see them getting hungry a few weeks into flower I'll hit em with a feeding of aqua flakes


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## Polly Wog (Apr 5, 2022)

4 plants per sip would make an interesting short veg sog. 16 varieties. Vegetable garden season coming and this is time saving. I don't even pH my water.


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## GrassBurner (Apr 5, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> 4 plants per sip would make an interesting short veg sog. 16 varieties. Vegetable garden season coming and this is time saving. I don't even pH my water.


I love the patio pickers, you can grow monsters in them!!


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## unomas (Apr 6, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Loving these little sips!! Been so busy lately, had plants in 1 gallon pots waiting forever, they were small and sad. Finally got the sips built and fresh soil in them last Sunday.
> 7 days later they're much happier and growing like weeds
> 
> Got some nice root action in a week, guessing the air stones are helping with that


Looking good! Where did you get those containers?


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## GrassBurner (Apr 6, 2022)

unomas said:


> Looking good! Where did you get those containers?


Thanks!! I got them online 

Food Storage Containers


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## CrunchBerries (Apr 6, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Thanks!! I got them online
> 
> Food Storage Containers


Hey Grassburner, 
Love the setup! Thanks for the link to the food grade containers. Have you been running airstones in your reservoir for long?


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## GrassBurner (Apr 6, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Hey Grassburner,
> Love the setup! Thanks for the link to the food grade containers. Have you been running airstones in your reservoir for long?


This will be my second run with airstones. Since the reservoir is big compared to the soil container size I wanted to make sure the water stayed fresh. And I figured it would help the soil at the bottom of the container stay aerated. The roots love it!! 

At the end of the last rub the entire reservoir was jammed packed with roots. Here is a pic from some point in the last run


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## CrunchBerries (Apr 6, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> This will be my second run with airstones. Since the reservoir is big compared to the soil container size I wanted to make sure the water stayed fresh. And I figured it would help the soil at the bottom of the container stay aerated. The roots love it!!
> 
> At the end of the last rub the entire reservoir was jammed packed with roots. Here is a pic from some point in the last run
> View attachment 5114177


Beautiful! Keep us updated on their progress!


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## Jcue81 (Apr 6, 2022)

Everyone’s plants are looking fantastic! I snagged a City Pickers for the this summers deck grow. 

How long do you guys feel comfortable leaving town running SIPs? I have one earthbox with a single plant and one earthbox with 2. They’ll be starting week 4 of flower when I leave next weekend. I’ll be gone 5 days. Giving me a bit of anxiety being away for so long.


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 6, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Everyone’s plants are looking fantastic! I snagged a City Pickers for the this summers deck grow.
> 
> How long do you guys feel comfortable leaving town running SIPs? I have one earthbox with a single plant and one earthbox with 2. They’ll be starting week 4 of flower when I leave next weekend. I’ll be gone 5 days. Giving me a bit of anxiety being away for so long. View attachment 5114194


Depends on plant size and light cycle. I let mine get big, and once I flip to flower, I go thru 2 gallons every day and a half. In veg, with light low, maybe every 4 days I have to refill. 

You can auto water the eb while you're out of town.


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## GrassBurner (Apr 6, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Everyone’s plants are looking fantastic! I snagged a City Pickers for the this summers deck grow.
> 
> How long do you guys feel comfortable leaving town running SIPs? I have one earthbox with a single plant and one earthbox with 2. They’ll be starting week 4 of flower when I leave next weekend. I’ll be gone 5 days. Giving me a bit of anxiety being away for so long. View attachment 5114194


With the city pickers, in veg I could stretch it to 3 or 4 days at most between watering, but the soil was starting to get dry by then. But in mid flower, they would drink the res in a day or two. I would try to find someone to come water then about day 3. Great thing about sips, they can't fuck up the watering


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## Jcue81 (Apr 6, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> With the city pickers, in veg I could stretch it to 3 or 4 days at most between watering, but the soil was starting to get dry by then. But in mid flower, they would drink the res in a day or two. I would try to find someone to come water then about day 3. Great thing about sips, they can't fuck up the watering


Ok, that’s what I was thinking. TY


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## myke (Apr 6, 2022)

If theirs roots in the res I dont let them go dry,if its still in veg then I can go 3 days but week 4 of flower its top up daily. As said above get someone to fill them,they cant mess it up.


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 6, 2022)

And if you can't find somebody or don't trust anybody, you can auto water an earthbox.


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## CrunchBerries (Apr 6, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> With the city pickers, in veg I could stretch it to 3 or 4 days at most between watering, but the soil was starting to get dry by then. But in mid flower, they would drink the res in a day or two. I would try to find someone to come water then about day 3. Great thing about sips, they can't fuck up the watering


 I concur. Especially the EB with the two is going to drink that res pretty quickly at that stage.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 6, 2022)

I have gone full on to the dark side my sip friends... I have empty all 12 of my sips soils into here re amended and added a bunch of build a soil stuff and keep buying... I guess I'm a fan boi now oh well.. hope it turns out and is at least comparable to the ease of sips. Please my don't dis own me or boot me from the thread


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Apr 6, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I have gone full on to the dark side my sip friends... I have empty all 12 of my sips soils into here re amended and added a bunch of build a soil stuff and keep buying... I guess I'm a fan boi now oh well.. hope it turns out and is at least comparable to the ease of sips. Please my don't dis own me or boot me from the thread


I dig it


----------



## raggyb (Apr 6, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I have gone full on to the dark side my sip friends... I have empty all 12 of my sips soils into here re amended and added a bunch of build a soil stuff and keep buying... I guess I'm a fan boi now oh well.. hope it turns out and is at least comparable to the ease of sips. Please my don't dis own me or boot me from the thread


boi?


----------



## myke (Apr 6, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I have gone full on to the dark side my sip friends... I have empty all 12 of my sips soils into here re amended and added a bunch of build a soil stuff and keep buying... I guess I'm a fan boi now oh well.. hope it turns out and is at least comparable to the ease of sips. Please my don't dis own me or boot me from the thread


Wheres the fill tube?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Apr 6, 2022)

myke said:


> Wheres the fill tube?




The only "fill tube" that matters. Lol


----------



## myke (Apr 7, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> And if you can't find somebody or don't trust anybody, you can auto water an earthbox.


I always cringe when I see these float valves,when they work its awesome but..... if they fail it could do a lot of damage indoors.


----------



## GrassBurner (Apr 7, 2022)

myke said:


> I always cringe when I see these float valves,when they work its awesome but..... if they fail it could do a lot of damage indoors.


Yeah you would definitely want some kind of tray with a drain, going to a drain in the house somewhere.
Got enough room in the bathtub for your sips? Could get an adapter that screws on where your shower head does for a garden hose. Run splitters on the hose, with a piece of hose into the fill tube of each res. Then just turn the water on a slow trickle.
But then you would have to set up your lights in there. Probably more of a pain than it's worth.


----------



## Jcue81 (Apr 7, 2022)

so my first attempt at making LABs didn’t go so well. I made half a pint of rice wash water let it sit for 3 days. The smell had changed a bit, didn’t seem sweet or putrid. Not sure if it was ready or not. To it I added 2 1/2 pints of milk. I think I was supposed to just use a touch of the rice wash water not the whole half a pint? Needless to say I’ll be starting over


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 7, 2022)

myke said:


> I always cringe when I see these float valves,when they work its awesome but..... if they fail it could do a lot of damage indoors.


Agreed 100%. I would only use in worst case scenario.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Apr 7, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Yeah you would definitely want some kind of tray with a drain, going to a drain in the house somewhere.
> Got enough room in the bathtub for your sips? Could get an adapter that screws on where your shower head does for a garden hose. Run splitters on the hose, with a piece of hose into the fill tube of each res. Then just turn the water on a slow trickle.
> But then you would have to set up your lights in there. Probably more of a pain than it's worth.


Really not a bad idea though. Very creative.


----------



## Jcue81 (Apr 7, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Yeah you would definitely want some kind of tray with a drain, going to a drain in the house somewhere.
> Got enough room in the bathtub for your sips? Could get an adapter that screws on where your shower head does for a garden hose. Run splitters on the hose, with a piece of hose into the fill tube of each res. Then just turn the water on a slow trickle.
> But then you would have to set up your lights in there. Probably more of a pain than it's worth.


nice idea! I have a friend coming by to help top em off.


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## CrunchBerries (Apr 7, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> so my first attempt at making LABs didn’t go so well. I made half a pint of rice wash water let it sit for 3 days. The smell had changed a bit, didn’t seem sweet or putrid. Not sure if it was ready or not. To it I added 2 1/2 pints of milk. I think I was supposed to just use a touch of the rice wash water not the whole half a pint? Needless to say I’ll be starting over View attachment 5114611


Chris trump or Hyroot have good videos on labs. 1 part rice wash. 10 parts milk


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## raggyb (Apr 7, 2022)

raggyb said:


> boi?


o man had to read again now I understand. I was like 'bokashi organic something? that can't be it'. looks like no till


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 7, 2022)

raggyb said:


> o man had to read again now I understand. I was like 'bokashi organic something? that can't be it'. looks like no till


Just a funny way of spelling boy is all lol but yeah I'm trying out some no till, I might stir the mix up before my next round in order to add better aeration in the form of pumice and or rice hulls. I was still using perlite when I started this soil so need to change that up. Probably add a bunch of co Loco too. But then going to try to just use cover crop and ferments and the like from then on as long as I can.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 7, 2022)

raggyb said:


> o man had to read again now I understand. I was like 'bokashi organic something? that can't be it'. looks like no till


Here they are as of today... they need a trim but I was hoping to use the lowers I trim as clones but that was the one part of my latest build a soil order that was not shipped... so we wait lol


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## Jcue81 (Apr 8, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Chris trump or Hyroot have good videos on labs. 1 part rice wash. 10 parts milk


I added the milk directly to my rice wash water at 10-1. It looks like he pours some, but not all, of his rice wash water to the milk. IDK. Maybe it’s my temps. The room it was in sits around 65. I’m definitely going to try again, not planning on paying for EM1 forever!


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## myke (Apr 8, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> I added the milk directly to my rice wash water at 10-1. It looks like he pours some, but not all, of his rice wash water to the milk. IDK. Maybe it’s my temps. The room it was in sits around 65. I’m definitely going to try again, not planning on paying for EM1 forever!


How are your plants doing?


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## Jcue81 (Apr 8, 2022)

myke said:


> How are your plants doing?


Hey, @myke Thanks for asking. 

They’re doing well despite all my efforts to hinder them! Thank god SIPs can fix grower errors. Just finished week 2 of flower.


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## myke (Apr 8, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Hey, @myke Thanks for asking.
> 
> They’re doing well despite all my efforts to hinder them! Thank god SIPs can fix grower errors. Just finished week 2 of flower.
> View attachment 5115122View attachment 5115123


Wasnt it you who had the sick plants? Maybe it was someone else.


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## Jcue81 (Apr 8, 2022)

myke said:


> Wasnt it you who had the sick plants? Maybe it was someone else.


Oh yeah they were sick and not happy with me. My earthbox brought them back to health though. The EB actually spoke and told me, “Just go back upstairs and leave us alone. I will straighten this out for you.“ LOL.

here’s my journal-




__





Earthbox Sour Diesel Clone Run


Received clone 2/16/22 and planted in 1 gallon of roots organic and watered with 6.5ph RO water pretty much cooked my plant by having the space heater too close. What a dope. March 3rd- putting out some new leaves looking a little better Transplanted to an Earthbox 3/5 Magnesium lockout...



rollitup.org


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## GrassBurner (Apr 8, 2022)

Since I've been using sips, people who see my garden think I know what I'm doing


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## Polly Wog (Apr 8, 2022)

This is incredibly easy. And faster growth than my 7 gal bags. But 2 per sip is gonna get ugly.


----------



## Polly Wog (Apr 8, 2022)




----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 8, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> This is incredibly easy. And faster growth than my 7 gal bags. But 2 per sip is gonna get ugly.


The problem with sips usually becomes..where the fuck is all this plant going to go!?


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 8, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> The problem with sips usually becomes..where the fuck is all this plant going to go!?


They do have a tendency to grow plants big, and at a pretty fast rate.


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## CWF (Apr 8, 2022)

No kidding. I have one plant in an earthbox, and she is an unruly, training-defiant tumbleweed of a bush.


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 8, 2022)

CWF said:


> No kidding. I have one plant in an earthbox, and she is an unruly, training-defiant tumbleweed of a bush.


I'm having the same problem this run. I needed to flip sooner, but I didn't realize it at the time. Live and learn. Lol


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## GrassBurner (Apr 8, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> View attachment 5115362


Yeah you're going to have your hands full!! Just a little extra trimming and training. Plants look great!!


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## GrassBurner (Apr 8, 2022)

I only get to see my plants once a week now, but its pretty exciting wondering how much they've grown! I'll be back home tomorrow, gonna do some more training and probably top dress them. Need to go see my gardening friend and get some worms and castings. 
I'll post some pics when I get back, hopefully they aren't too out of control. I did bend a few of the tallest plants over before I left last Sunday. The 2 PHK from AK Bean Brains were about twice as tall as their roommates, and 1 Pineapple Fields got bent. The other Pineapple Fields was male and got pulled. Put a Fem Sherbert x Dosidos seed from Archive in its place. 
Both PHK, the Dracarys, one of the Grodd Squads, the Pineapple Fields, and Rainbow x Race Fuel are all female. Ive got a Scooby Snacks, a Grodd Squad, and a mystery plant that ive yet to sex. Hopefully I can figure that out this weekend. Ive got materials for 4 more sips, I think I'm gonna make them this weekend, and put 4 Tire Fire from Archive in them, in the 2x4 Tent. Hopefully get a couple females to flower out.


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## raggyb (Apr 9, 2022)

they look very happy in there home.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 9, 2022)

Here are my non sip ladies today, I think at this point I need to water 4 gallons every 3 ish days.. when do you all think I should flip them? As far as screen coverage? I have always been bad at that lol 

Also thinking about switching out to the new magnolia 4 I have on the way from timber but I might wait.. I now have too many lights for all my spaces oh shucks lol


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## myke (Apr 9, 2022)

I always wait till most of my screen is full then flip,this gets me 8-12 oz per pending on strain.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 10, 2022)

myke said:


> I always wait till most of my screen is full then flip,this gets me 8-12 oz per pending on strain.View attachment 5115911


That is a very neat looking screen man very nice!


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## GrassBurner (Apr 10, 2022)

Came home to a jungle in the 2x2 tent! 


Got the 2x4 cabinet opened up, and put the 3 smaller plants from the 2x2 in there. 1 plant is a squatty little fucker, got him a booster seat  



Sprayed the hell out of every plant with Green Cleaner, I'm all about the preventative after fighting those little spawns of Satan for the last few grows. New soil, and preventative sprays rotating between Green Cleaner and Dr Zymes will hopefully do the trick. I bought a little 1 gallon sprayer with the wand, it's freaking amazing for getting under all the leaves easily. Of course I broke it after the second use, I've got hammer hands, I tighten everything too damn much. Whole top assembly broke where you pump it. Guess I'll get a new one this week. 

The biggest plant in the 2x4 is a PHK, I'm leaving her in there by herself. 


Everybody got top dressed with Flowergirl, and watered in with some Neptune's Harvest Fish Poo, Neptune's Harvest Seaweed, and Fulvic Acid. We'll see how they look in a week!

Most of the plants in the big tent are happy. Pineapple Fields is looking a little under the weather, noticed some rust spots on a few lowers, and the edges of a few leaves were curled up and brown. Hopefully she works through it.


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## myke (Apr 10, 2022)

Finished week 8 today. Some are looking close. Probably start chopping in a week.
Some things I did different was instead of topping with dry food I just kept adding good soil. Seemed to work,gave the feeder roots somewhere to grow.
Gnats are way down with the sealed off lids. Will keep sand on the soil after harvest to keep them down.
Some pics.


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 10, 2022)

myke said:


> Finished week 8 today. Some are looking close. Probably start chopping in a week.
> Some things I did different was instead of topping with dry food I just kept adding good soil. Seemed to work,gave the feeder roots somewhere to grow.
> Gnats are way down with the sealed off lids. Will keep sand on the soil after harvest to keep them down.
> Some pics. View attachment 5116329View attachment 5116330View attachment 5116331View attachment 5116332View attachment 5116333


2 more weeks... 'bout a pound. Lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 10, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> 2 more weeks... 'bout a pound. Lol


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## Polly Wog (Apr 15, 2022)

Not dead yet. Flipped Monday.


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## GrassBurner (Apr 15, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> Not dead yet. Flipped Monday.


Lookin good


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 15, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Lookin good


Agreed. Looks good, maybe a lil to much N?


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## Polly Wog (Apr 15, 2022)

I'll see how they do in flower. I've just followed the city picker instructions. Except I used 444 and an organic haha tomato dry feed. Promix and dolomite. I'm not touching them except add water. The edges of some of the leaves are a bit burned. But not bad. I'm shocked.


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## Polly Wog (Apr 15, 2022)

I will say they are growing better than my 7 gal bags. Of course they are not clones but it seems as fast as hydro.


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 15, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> I'll see how they do in flower. I've just followed the city picker instructions. Except I used 444 and an organic haha tomato dry feed. Promix and dolomite. I'm not touching them except add water. The edges of some of the leaves are a bit burned. But not bad. I'm shocked.


They look good, just the lowers look really dark green, and shiny, and on the new growth I believe I can see dark green blotches. They look great otherwise though. I wouldn't sweat it.


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## GrassBurner (Apr 15, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> I will say they are growing better than my 7 gal bags. Of course they are not clones but it seems as fast as hydro.


I grew a plant in a small dwc setup right next to the city pickers, plants grew at the same pace. DWC was just 10 times the hassle


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 15, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> I grew a plant in a small dwc setup right next to the city pickers, plants grew at the same pace. DWC was just 10 times the hassle


I know the feeling well..... lol


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## GrassBurner (Apr 15, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I know the feeling well..... lol
> 
> View attachment 5118982


I'm digging the reflective wrap


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 15, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> I'm digging the reflective wrap


I use it more to stop light leaks, than anything. It's bubble wrap also, so it helps insulate, but I don't believe much.


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## GrassBurner (Apr 16, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I use it more to stop light leaks, than anything. It's bubble wrap also, so it helps insulate, but I don't believe much.


I did the same thing on my dwc. Never used a chiller or anything and didn't have any issues in the res, I'm sure it helps a decent bit  Probably helps reflect light back up a little too.


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 16, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> I did the same thing on my dwc. Never used a chiller or anything and didn't have any issues in the res, I'm sure it helps a decent bit  Probably helps reflect light back up a little too.


I have a chiller, but I never use it. I use a few ppm of bleach in res. I've had temps at 73°f and no rot. I figure the chiller is not needed at that point.


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## myke (Apr 16, 2022)

Any of you sippers add vermiculite to your soil?

Will be mixing re amending my soil soon. Was gonna add some for the silica.


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## GrassBurner (Apr 16, 2022)

myke said:


> Any of you sippers add vermiculite to your soil?
> 
> Will be mixing re amending my soil soon. Was gonna add some for the silica.


I've only added what the predator mites come in  From what I've read it holds moisture better than perlite?


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## myke (Apr 16, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> I've only added what the predator mites come in  From what I've read it holds moisture better than perlite?


Yes and a biggy is its CEC or its ability to hold on too nutrients.
Going to the garden centre today,will pick some up.


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## GrassBurner (Apr 16, 2022)

Nice!! Let us know how it goes. Sounds like it could be very useful in my small sips, I need all the nutrient holding capabilities that are out there


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## GrassBurner (Apr 16, 2022)

Another week in the books. All 3 tents are officially in flower. They are all 1 week apart on the flip. Last week I realized the 2x2 tent timer was in the "on" position instead of "timer". This week I realized the 2x4 timer was in the "on" position  
In the 2x2 is a PHK 


In the 2x4 tent, up front is a PHK, middle plant is Scoobie Snacks, back plant is Dracarys. 


In the big tent these little rascals were getting frisky! 1 Grodd Squad and the Rainbow Race Fuel were males. Looked like they were a few days away from starting to open up. 


Here is the female Grodd Squad, another GG4 cross that has huge fan leaves. 


Pineapple Fields is definitely sativa leaning. I've tied the main stem down twice, and it had stretched all the way through the light. Main stem has gotta be 6' long.


----------



## Jcue81 (Apr 17, 2022)

Start of week 4. Out of town until Wednesday but I have a helper coming by tomorrow to water. Sure hope he knows to whisper sweet nothings to them.


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 17, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Start of week 4. Out of town until Wednesday but I have a helper coming by tomorrow to water. Sure hope he knows to whisper sweet nothings to them.View attachment 5119713


You're a brave soul.


----------



## Jcue81 (Apr 17, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> You're a brave soul.


Trying not to worry since there’s nothing I can do. More worried about my moms than the flowering tent to be honest. My helper is experienced so that makes me feel better. Fingers crossed!


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Apr 17, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Trying not to worry since there’s nothing I can do. More worried about my moms than the flowering tent to be honest. My helper is experienced so that makes me feel better. Fingers crossed!


Lol I hear ya. I've been there. Having a helper that's experienced is less of a worry.


----------



## myke (Apr 17, 2022)

Picked up some Vermiculite and a couple 27g totes.
Will make a couple of huge sips,same as the ones I used for tomatoes last year.

Bigger is just better.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Apr 17, 2022)

myke said:


> Picked up some Vermiculite and a couple 27g totes.
> Will make a couple of huge sips,same as the ones I used for tomatoes last year.
> 
> Bigger is just better.


Agreed. I look forward to see how they work for you.


----------



## myke (Apr 17, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Agreed. I look forward to see how they work for you.


Getting them up and down the stairs is the challenge,worth it though I think.The added res size will allow for going away for a few days between fill ups.


----------



## myke (Apr 17, 2022)

Well 9 weeks is in. Chopped one of my white widows. No room to hang all at once so something had to go. The other one is swelling and holly hell talk about a Nitrogen deficiency. Seemed to yellow pretty quickly. Oh well she’ll be some good smoke.


----------



## myke (Apr 17, 2022)

Next up to get chopped is this Rozay gal. She’s been brown for well over 2 weeks now. She sure finishes fast.


----------



## myke (Apr 17, 2022)

My coco plant did ok I guess. Was really just trying to use up my old hydro food. Had issues but I didn’t care fed at about 1.3 EC I’ll be able to do a taste test against the other one in a sip. This is also Rozay.


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## myke (Apr 17, 2022)

This other gal Frosted Fruit Cake takes a long time. She’s Starting to fade. Needs at least 3 more weeks.


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 17, 2022)

Good job with keeping up with the feeding! Those some big girls, with some big appetites, I'm guessing. Have fun trimming though. Lol


----------



## myke (Apr 17, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Good job with keeping up with the feeding! Those some big girls, with some big appetites, I'm guessing. Have fun trimming though. Lol


Its also why I harvest in stages,trimming is a bitch but I do have help.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Apr 17, 2022)

myke said:


> Its also why I harvest in stages,trimming is a bitch but I do have help.


It's the part I dread most, and I only flower 1 plant, mostly. I can't imagine having to do more than 1.


----------



## GrassBurner (Apr 17, 2022)

myke said:


> Holes drilled ,risers cut. Net pots for wicks. One big ass sip. View attachment 5119851View attachment 5119852View attachment 5119854


Finally convinced my buddy to try a couple sips. He's been growing forever outdoor and indoor. Indoor he grows in promix i believe. Grows nice flower, but he's wanting to try the organic soil route, and the ease of sips is too tempting. Sending him these pics, he's gonna build 2 identical to yours. I'm guessing he'll be building a lot more soon  Thanks for the pics!!


----------



## Polly Wog (Apr 20, 2022)

Still not dead.


----------



## weedstoner420 (Apr 20, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> Still not dead.


Getting there though...


----------



## GrassBurner (Apr 20, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> Still not dead.


Looking great


----------



## Polly Wog (Apr 20, 2022)

I'm feeling kinda guilty. It's just too easy. We'll see if they make it through bloom. I have noticed an increase of around 10% on my humidity I assume due to the increased transpiration and a bit of evaporation. I need to clean up the short bottom growth for more air circulation. Growth is much faster than the bags. I found this thread after watching tons of videos on YouTube from build a soil as well as coots. I run a homebrew mix similar to coots. I used promix and worm castings and used happy frog for some of the compost as well as a local compost. I toss in dolomite and use extra pearlite then use some plastic food grade 55 gal drums to cook it for a month or so. I also Dr earth also. In the sips though I went straight hillbilly and used promix, dolomite, and strips of 444 Dr and jobes 253 organic tomato fertilizer. 1.5 cups of each. I'm trying to find items available locally that work. So far I'm shocked. If the flower looks and tastes ok I will be shocked again.


----------



## myke (Apr 20, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> I'm feeling kinda guilty. It's just too easy. We'll see if they make it through bloom. I have noticed an increase of around 10% on my humidity I assume due to the increased transpiration and a bit of evaporation. I need to clean up the short bottom growth for more air circulation. Growth is much faster than the bags. I found this thread after watching tons of videos on YouTube from build a soil as well as coots. I run a homebrew mix similar to coots. I used promix and worm castings and used happy frog for some of the compost as well as a local compost. I toss in dolomite and use extra pearlite then use some plastic food grade 55 gal drums to cook it for a month or so. I also Dr earth also. In the sips though I went straight hillbilly and used promix, dolomite, and strips of 444 Dr and jobes 253 organic tomato fertilizer. 1.5 cups of each. I'm trying to find items available locally that work. So far I'm shocked. If the flower looks and tastes ok I will be shocked again.


Dont tell anyone its the sip,its your years of mastering organic soil.


----------



## Finders (Apr 21, 2022)

this is one month into veg in an earthbox under 1k hps enhanced bulb, just 2 plants in it. absolutely loving the SIP lifestyle


----------



## myke (Apr 22, 2022)

I think the time has come to meet the shinny edges of the sword.


----------



## GrassBurner (Apr 22, 2022)

I think I'm gonna start chopping my plants like a true American, one .556 round at a time


----------



## Finders (Apr 22, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> I think I'm gonna start chopping my plants like a true American, one .556 round at a time


those 762 really make a cleaner cut haha


----------



## Jcue81 (Apr 22, 2022)

Just wrapped week 4. My helper did a great job while I was away. Things are cruising along.

Sour:

Wedding Pie in front, Apple Fritter in back.


Sour teen going to a new home next week


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Apr 22, 2022)

myke said:


> I think the time has come to meet the shinny edges of the sword. View attachment 5122792


Killer brother!


----------



## Jcue81 (Apr 22, 2022)

myke said:


> I think the time has come to meet the shinny edges of the sword. View attachment 5122792


Beautiful. What is it, @myke ?


----------



## myke (Apr 22, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Beautiful. What is it, @myke ?


A strain Ive had for several years,came to me as a clone marked White Widow.Very strong and a favourite with the females in my circle. Very relaxing they say.

This is the best Ive done as far as size goes,seems to eat the N a lot.Should have top dressed a few more times I think.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Apr 22, 2022)

myke said:


> A strain Ive had for several years,came to me as a clone marked White Widow.Very strong and a favourite with the females in my circle. Very relaxing they say.
> 
> This is the best Ive done as far as size goes,seems to eat the N a lot.Should have top dressed a few more times I think.


I was top dressing 3/4 cup dte rose and flower, 1/4 cup gnarley barley, 1 cup ewc,1 cup build a flower, every week, and I still got fade. Big plants are hard to keep up with, I've learned. Lol


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Apr 22, 2022)

I got some fade going too lol




And foxtails galore.


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## Polly Wog (Apr 22, 2022)

Nothing wrong with tails!


----------



## Bignutes (Apr 22, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> I'm feeling kinda guilty. It's just too easy. We'll see if they make it through bloom. I have noticed an increase of around 10% on my humidity I assume due to the increased transpiration and a bit of evaporation. I need to clean up the short bottom growth for more air circulation. Growth is much faster than the bags. I found this thread after watching tons of videos on YouTube from build a soil as well as coots. I run a homebrew mix similar to coots. I used promix and worm castings and used happy frog for some of the compost as well as a local compost. I toss in dolomite and use extra pearlite then use some plastic food grade 55 gal drums to cook it for a month or so. I also Dr earth also. In the sips though I went straight hillbilly and used promix, dolomite, and strips of 444 Dr and jobes 253 organic tomato fertilizer. 1.5 cups of each. I'm trying to find items available locally that work. So far I'm shocked. If the flower looks and tastes ok I will be shocked again.


i hit 2.38 gr/W and 688 g/m^2, sips destroy. I like your use of fert strips


----------



## Tim Fox (Apr 22, 2022)

Hey @Humanrob take a look at how well the old sip thread is doing


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Apr 22, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> Nothing wrong with tails!


I don't mind them really. I'm the only one that smokes my bud, so it really doesn't matter.


----------



## GrassBurner (Apr 22, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I don't mind them really. I'm the only one that smokes my bud, so it really doesn't matter.


Hell I tell em smoke the tail or hit the trail


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## Rocket Soul (Apr 23, 2022)

Bignutes said:


> i hit 2.38 gr/W and 688 g/m^2, sips destroy. I like your use of fert strips


Very nice results, how many plants and what space/watts?


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## Humanrob (Apr 23, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> Hey @Humanrob take a look at how well the old sip thread is doing


It's definitely taken on a life of it's own...


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## GrassBurner (Apr 23, 2022)

So is @Humanrob our SIP Messiah?


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## Humanrob (Apr 23, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> So is @Humanrob our SIP Messiah?


Laugh. Out. Loud. I love SIPs and miss them, but haven't used one in years because they don't fit my grow style anymore. I have full respect for SIPs and all that use them, and I'm glad to have started this thread. Y'all have taken it to another level! Rock on


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 23, 2022)

So if photosynthesis is hindered in yellowing leaves....



What about in purpling ones?


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## Tim Fox (Apr 24, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> So is @Humanrob our SIP Messiah?


Robs a cool cat , and a good friend


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## GrassBurner (Apr 24, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> Robs a cool cat , and a good friend


I'm so thankful he started this thread, and my plants are even more appreciative


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## GrassBurner (Apr 24, 2022)

Another week in the books and they ain't dead  Looks like I'm gonna have to do some serious training on the PHK (back left) and Grodd Squad (back right). GS came out of nowhere and is in a full sprint. Every female plant ive had from Pistil Positive has been vigorous and stacks nice big buds, yall should check them out. Great prices at JBC. PP hooked it up like crazy on the freebies too. PHK must have some giant bean stalk in her  Pineapple Fields is looking much happier. I reckon the soil was a little hot in veg.



I have some sad news, Scooby Snacks turned out to be a male. I'll cull him this afternoon. But the PHK up front is exploding. The Dracarys is a squat little plant in the back there.



Pineapple Express


PHK


Grodd Squad



Planted 3 Blue Magoo bx3's from Dynasty last Monday directly into the sips, they've sprouted up. Makes me nervous planting a seed and not being able to check on it for a week. Need to check the timer and make sure it's not on 12/12 still. I'm gonna pop 3 of the Tire Fire I got from Archive today, hopefully I can get a female of each strain to fill all the tents up with females.


Time to get my ass to work and get all these leggy fuckers bent down! I've been top dressing every week with Dr Earth. I do about 2tbsp of dry ammendments, then water that in with Neptune's Harvest Fish Fertilizer, Neptunes Seaweed, and Ful-Power. This week I'm going to omit the seaweed, and add powdered langbeinite for a K boost. First I tried this  



After my hand fell off, I got out the coffee grinder. 30 Seconds and I had a super fine powder. Will mix it up at 1 tbsp per gallon and use that water to mix my fish/seaweed/fulvic acid and water it in.


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## Polly Wog (Apr 24, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Another week in the books and they ain't dead  Looks like I'm gonna have to do some serious training on the PHK (back left) and Grodd Squad (back right). GS came out of nowhere and is in a full sprint. Every female plant ive had from Pistil Positive has been vigorous and stacks nice big buds, yall should check them out. Great prices at JBC. PP hooked it up like crazy on the freebies too. PHK must have some giant bean stalk in her  Pineapple Fields is looking much happier. I reckon the soil was a little hot in veg.
> 
> View attachment 5123821
> 
> ...


Where did you purchase the buckets? Nice work.


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## GrassBurner (Apr 24, 2022)

Thanks! Got them from an online commercial kitchen supply. Most big cities have a few around, might be able to pick up locally  The store I got them from is called Webstaraunt.com I believe.


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## Finders (Apr 24, 2022)

I have a question and sorry if I missed it reading this whole thread but going to have some monsters and was wondering if jacks tomato feed 12-15-30 would be ok to use in the res to feed towards later stage of flowering?


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## NewGrower2011 (Apr 25, 2022)

I'd be careful of dropping your amendments into the rez itself. I've done that a few times and I think you will be misled at first thinking all is well as it may take a few for them to break down but then BAM I was seeing signs of burn a few days later. I think once they get soluble their availability skyrockets and you may find out too late it was too much too fast. And being in the rez unless you've setup things to let you flush/rinse the rez itself may be a PIA to make any corrective measures.

Top-feeding/watering-in any amendments seems the safer choice imo. 

Next time I setup & run my SIPs I'll definitely have pumps in the rez (or a drain) so I could "flush" the rez if necessary. The one time I had the fill-hole with good pumps down in the rez I ended up not even using them so the runs after that I have left them off. But, as they say, hind-sight is 20/20 and I definitely see a value in the ability to drain/flush the rez if needed. I was using the pump with the tubing & electric cord out of the same fill hole/pipe as I didn't want to risk any leaks from having a drain but if you can contend with leak-prevention &/or coping with a leak should it happen, you could go passive and completely forego dropping a pump in there.


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 25, 2022)

Those look like water soluble nutes to me, no?


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## Finders (Apr 25, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Those look like water soluble nutes to me, no?


Yeah they are


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 26, 2022)

Just be careful with them then.


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## myke (Apr 26, 2022)

Finders said:


> I have a question and sorry if I missed it reading this whole thread but going to have some monsters and was wondering if jacks tomato feed 12-15-30 would be ok to use in the res to feed towards later stage of flowering?


Ive tried a few times with salts,both in the res and top feed.Ended up with dry shrivelled leaves both times.I fed low EC. 
A small amount on top goes a long way.
I use a fish mix now it compliments the dry food so I think thats a better choice.


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## Finders (Apr 26, 2022)

myke said:


> Ive tried a few times with salts,both in the res and top feed.Ended up with dry shrivelled leaves both times.I fed low EC.
> A small amount on top goes a long way.
> I use a fish mix now it compliments the dry food so I think thats a better choice.


Appreciate all the responses. Thanks a ton!


----------



## Finders (Apr 26, 2022)

Meant appreciate all the responses everyone has given.


----------



## Polly Wog (Apr 26, 2022)

The fast growth is causing a bit of a problem getting air where I need it. I've cut more out of the bottom of these plants than the ones planted in the 7 gal bags have growing on them. And the stretch is more. Leaves twice the size of my hand. I had to buy a 50 pint dehumidifier as the 25 was running too long. I use it in the room outside. Next time I'll either grow half the plants or smaller sips. 4 weeks of veg with 4 plants would easily fill a 5x5 net. Crazy


----------



## GrassBurner (Apr 26, 2022)

Yeah you've definitely got to make adjustments with the incredible growth rate. I've cut more fans than I can count that are 12" or longer


----------



## Jcue81 (Apr 28, 2022)

just wrapped up week 5. Chugging along. The Sour is a hog. Trying to keep up with her demand for food.


----------



## Polly Wog (Apr 30, 2022)




----------



## Polly Wog (Apr 30, 2022)

I took more brush out of these. 1 per sip is perfect. 2 not so much.


----------



## myke (Apr 30, 2022)

I noticed some stinky anaerobic soil in my one sip,it was the bigger WW plant that I showed last.Watered too much towards the end.My other plant is still going,FFC Ive stopped watering for a week now.Waiting for it to dry out.Its about 20g of soil.


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## myke (Apr 30, 2022)

She’s day 77 ish


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 30, 2022)

myke said:


> I noticed some stinky anaerobic soil in my one sip,it was the bigger WW plant that I showed last.Watered too much towards the end.My other plant is still going,FFC Ive stopped watering for a week now.Waiting for it to dry out.Its about 20g of soil.


Stop sniffing the soil.


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## myke (Apr 30, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Stop sniffing the soil.


Lol,when I dumped it out my garage smelt like a slough.Didnt have to smell it.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Apr 30, 2022)

myke said:


> Lol,when I dumped it out my garage smelt like a slough.Didnt have to smell it.


I hear ya. I know that smell, well. Lol


----------



## myke (Apr 30, 2022)

None of my other sips had that smell. Gotta watch out towards the end not to fill the res so often. This sip also has two 5” wicks. So that probably didn’t help.


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## Hollatchaboy (Apr 30, 2022)

myke said:


> None of my other sips had that smell. Gotta watch out towards the end not to fill the res so often. This sip also has two 5” wicks. So that probably didn’t help.


Yea I been only giving a gallon at a time towards the end.


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## Polly Wog (May 1, 2022)

I'm seeing roots through the fill hole on my sips. Is this normal? Do you guys reuse your soil or replant with new.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 1, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> I'm seeing roots through the fill hole on my sips. Is this normal? Do you guys reuse your soil or replant with new.


I've not seen any in mine, but I think it may be because the fill tube goes almost to the bottom. 

I'm running mine no till, on its 2nd cycle. Some other guys recycle, some use new. It depends on what you're going for.


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## myke (May 1, 2022)

Re use it,it gets better with age.The minerals take yrs to break down.Just need to add food , compost and let cook again.


----------



## GrassBurner (May 1, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> I'm seeing roots through the fill hole on my sips. Is this normal? Do you guys reuse your soil or replant with new.


My res is full of roots, but ive got air stones in there.


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## Polly Wog (May 1, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> My res is full of roots, but ive got air stones in there.


May be a good idea. I was going to go organic soil aka build a soil etc. but after watching tons of videos of earth boxes including I guess the older gentleman who either marketed or came up with the idea. So I'm trying the fertilizer strip method. The 2 per sip it looks like are going to run out of fertilizer. The one per sip looks ok. 3 cups of fertilizer for all sips. Are you using organic soil?


----------



## Tim Fox (May 1, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> May be a good idea. I was going to go organic soil aka build a soil etc. but after watching tons of videos of earth boxes including I guess the older gentleman who either marketed or came up with the idea. So I'm trying the fertilizer strip method. The 2 per sip it looks like are going to run out of fertilizer. The one per sip looks ok. 3 cups of fertilizer for all sips. Are you using organic soil?


i use fertilizer Trenches (strips) on my sip grows, the work great, the plant sends roots into the res, and roots into the regular soil and then i get feeder roots that go into the trenches


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## Tim Fox (May 1, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> I'm seeing roots through the fill hole on my sips. Is this normal? Do you guys reuse your soil or replant with new.


yup, i get a kick out of seeing the water roots in the Res,, ,thats a very good thing


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## Polly Wog (May 1, 2022)

I know the 3 7 gallon grow bags I've been neglecting. I believe sips for me are the way to go no matter what type of soil.


----------



## GrassBurner (May 1, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> May be a good idea. I was going to go organic soil aka build a soil etc. but after watching tons of videos of earth boxes including I guess the older gentleman who either marketed or came up with the idea. So I'm trying the fertilizer strip method. The 2 per sip it looks like are going to run out of fertilizer. The one per sip looks ok. 3 cups of fertilizer for all sips. Are you using organic soil?


Yeah I use a real simple organic soil. 30% peat, 20% compost, 10% ewc, 40% lava rock/perlite. Then I add basalt, oyster shell flour, Dr Earth Homegrown dry ammendments, langbeinite, and if I have it some malted barley. Water it in with some fish poop and it's ready to rock.


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## Polly Wog (May 1, 2022)

That sounds a bit cheaper than build a soil. I was using promix with happy frog, dolomite, earth worm castings, Dr. Earth. Top dress as well. Nothing fancy. It worked in the containers. Then I thought I'd try the sips. I'm convinced. I guess you top dress if need be with Dr? The 2 per sip are starting to look a little hungry.


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## Grain Bill (May 3, 2022)

Update from march 4th
So yeah, I will continue with that setup, definetely with 2 plants and not 4. My thoughts after a few grows: Will stick to a feeding schedule and maybe switch to an organic suspension formula for feeding instead of Raw NPK ( used about 120 gr bloom all in one for 1 cycle with 2 plants, cost of microbes must be considered too). I will not grow during winter anymore (northern region) bcause reaching proper hdt % with a humidifier is fastidious in my case and I don't have a heat problem in summer. As advertised, Candy kush adapted very well to my scrog setup ( LST with a net). It's obvious that it requires less manipulations- so less stress- than other strains, in order to get the right shape at late veg/early bloom. Will try to stick to this strain and 1 or 2 others for now. Pics are from a few weeks ago, cheers!


----------



## myke (May 3, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> That sounds a bit cheaper than build a soil. I was using promix with happy frog, dolomite, earth worm castings, Dr. Earth. Top dress as well. Nothing fancy. It worked in the containers. Then I thought I'd try the sips. I'm convinced. I guess you top dress if need be with Dr? The 2 per sip are starting to look a little hungry.


Yup say 4 or so tble spoons of dry, scratch it in with some ewc.Every 7-14 days and water over it a little say 3-500ml a couple times.


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## myke (May 3, 2022)

Ive posted this before,Im pretty liberal with 444.


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## Hollatchaboy (May 3, 2022)

myke said:


> Ive posted this before,Im pretty liberal with 444.View attachment 5128120


How much is it?


----------



## myke (May 3, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> How much is it?


5-6 heaping tablespoons


----------



## weedstoner420 (May 4, 2022)

Growbox update: the beast was got by the rot a couple weeks ago... Spotted one limp yellow leaf in the main cola, surrounded by healthy green ones, pried it open to find grey mold deep inside. RIP top 6-8 inches of buds...I did salvage a nug that was mold-free and it's pretty decent, despite being a few weeks early. What remains:



The right side box has a bush bean in the back, mostly to have something to snack on while the weed finishes up. Looks pretty happy, just bean a bean... Gonna start picking them in the next couple days:


----------



## myke (May 4, 2022)

Im always freaked out about mold especially with big bud strains.Why do you think it happened?


----------



## GrassBurner (May 4, 2022)

I haven't been able to find Dr Earth Flowergirl at any of my local stores. Thinking about switching to the "Premium Gold" for flower which is a 4-4-4, and bumping up the K with powdered langbeinite. The Flower Girl (3-9-4) is high in P, not sure if that's really necessary. Do you think the nitrogen content in the Premium Gold would be too high in flower? I've got "pure gold" on hand, which is 2-2-2. I appreciate any advice.


----------



## weedstoner420 (May 4, 2022)

myke said:


> Im always freaked out about mold especially with big bud strains.Why do you think it happened?


I think it was mostly down to poor canopy management on my part. When it went into 12/12, it was only a seedling...I didn't top it because I didn't expect it to get very big, but it blew tf up in the SIP before it even started flowering. I bent the main stem at a 90 degree angle several times and ended up with a few stems all growing into each other near the top...

That combined with I'm growing in an unfinished basement where the humidity sometimes spikes when it rains heavy. I don't even attempt to flower in the summer anymore, every time I've done it I've gotten at least a little bit of mold... After this one is harvested it's just keeping the moms healthy and trimmed until September-October.

I'm still keeping a cutting of this plant cuz I like it a lot, just will top it next time. Hopefully it'll be less out of control as a clone too...


----------



## GrassBurner (May 4, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Growbox update: the beast was got by the rot a couple weeks ago... Spotted one limp yellow leaf in the main cola, surrounded by healthy green ones, pried it open to find grey mold deep inside. RIP top 6-8 inches of buds...I did salvage a nug that was mold-free and it's pretty decent, despite being a few weeks early. What remains:
> View attachment 5128457
> View attachment 5128458
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear that, it takes a good amount of time and effort to get them that far. I lost a cola that was as big as my forearm, and quite a few other big ones, on a plant last year. Hopefully you still get a decent amount of smoke 
I'm diggin the bean plant.


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## myke (May 4, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> I haven't been able to find Dr Earth Flowergirl at any of my local stores. Thinking about switching to the "Premium Gold" for flower which is a 4-4-4, and bumping up the K with powdered langbeinite. The Flower Girl (3-9-4) is high in P, not sure if that's really necessary. Do you think the nitrogen content in the Premium Gold would be too high in flower? I've got "pure gold" on hand, which is 2-2-2. I appreciate any advice.


Use the 444 and add N and K is my new mix.I cant get much for K other then kelp alfalfa frass etc. Im just using low in P stuff now just to see if any difference.Im out of bloom 284 and wont restock it.


----------



## GrassBurner (May 4, 2022)

myke said:


> Use the 444 and add N and K is my new mix.I cant get much for K other then kelp alfalfa frass etc. Im just using low in P stuff now just to see if any difference.Im out of bloom 284 and wont restock it.


Thanks for the info!!


----------



## weedstoner420 (May 4, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Sorry to hear that, it takes a good amount of time and effort to get them that far. I lost a cola that was as big as my forearm, and quite a few other big ones, on a plant last year. Hopefully you still get a decent amount of smoke
> I'm diggin the bean plant.


Yah it's always a bummer seeing those one or two dead sugar leaves pop up out of nowhere, and of course it's always at the very end. This plant grew way bigger than expected tho so I'm not stressing on the yield.

I like the bean too. It almost didn't make it...it didn't properly shed its seed husk, and managed to grow from a stem with no cotyledons. Good job bean!


----------



## Polly Wog (May 5, 2022)

The two per sip are hungry. The one per sip not too bad. The one pic is of one of the two per sips roots. Time for water. They all got a top dressing. A bit late on the hungry ones but it's just a test. Next time one per sip and more fertilizer. The one per sip I used 1.5 cups jobe organic tomato fertilizer and 1.5 cups 444 Dr. 1.5 cups dolomite in all. The two per sip got 444 and flower girl. Same ration. Both Dr.


----------



## Polly Wog (May 5, 2022)

I'm ready to give in on the 3 7 gal bags. I'm embarrassed by their growth.


----------



## myke (May 5, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> View attachment 5129023View attachment 5129025View attachment 5129026View attachment 5129027View attachment 5129028The two per sip are hungry. The one per sip not too bad. The one pic is of one of the two per sips roots. Time for water. They all got a top dressing. A bit late on the hungry ones but it's just a test. Next time one per sip and more fertilizer. The one per sip I used 1.5 cups jobe organic tomato fertilizer and 1.5 cups 444 Dr. 1.5 cups dolomite in all. The two per sip got 444 and flower girl. Same ration. Both Dr.


Wow 1.5 cups dolomite lime? Why for?

edit. And 3 cups of food ea? You go man! Lol.


----------



## GrassBurner (May 5, 2022)

myke said:


> Use the 444 and add N and K is my new mix.I cant get much for K other then kelp alfalfa frass etc. Im just using low in P stuff now just to see if any difference.Im out of bloom 284 and wont restock it.


Dr Earth has a liquid fertilizer that's omri certified called "Nitro Big" that is a 3-0-1, might be something for your N and K, doesn't seem like a lot of K though. 

Nitro Big 

Was cruising around Dr Earths website, they offer a ton of different products. They've got another liquid fertilizer called "Natural Wonder" that's a 3-2-1.


----------



## myke (May 5, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Dr Earth has a liquid fertilizer that's omri certified called "Nitro Big" that is a 3-0-1, might be something for your N and K, doesn't seem like a lot of K though.
> 
> Nitro Big
> 
> Was cruising around Dr Earths website, they offer a ton of different products. They've got another liquid fertilizer called "Natural Wonder" that's a 3-2-1.


Here in Canada I can only find Gaia for dry,others for tomatoes I find have too much Ca for me since I reuse the soil.

Edit,I use alfalfa and kelp for N and K both these have very little P, EWC also has N.


----------



## Polly Wog (May 5, 2022)

As far as the dolomite I was just following the directions for the earth box etc. I've run slurry tests on the pro mix that I use and it usually comes in around 6.5. so I would imagine the lower layer of heavily limed pro mix is a much higher ph. It's supposed to help with the magnesium and calcium deficiencies. I use the pump and grow line in my grow bags. I'm trying to find a no easy method for busy people. The dry amendments etc. I've been using a year or so. But since I found this sip method on youboob I stumbled here. Amazing.


----------



## myke (May 5, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> As far as the dolomite I was just following the directions for the earth box etc. I've run slurry tests on the pro mix that I use and it usually comes in around 6.5. so I would imagine the lower layer of heavily limed pro mix is a much higher ph. It's supposed to help with the magnesium and calcium deficiencies. I use the pump and grow line in my grow bags. I'm trying to find a no easy method for busy people. The dry amendments etc. I've been using a year or so. But since I found this sip method on youboob I stumbled here. Amazing.


I guess depends on your water,mines all ca and mg and the 444 has Ca too.
Takes a long time to break down so shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## myke (May 5, 2022)

I now add plain peat to lower ph after ea run.


----------



## GrassBurner (May 6, 2022)

Turns out Dr Earth has a Cannabis feeding chart. Ordered the 4-4-4, and a bottle of the Pot Of Gold 1-1-1liquid fertilizer. We'll see how it goes. Fixing to pop some beans, they'll be my test mules. I'm gonna follow their dry fertilizer recommendations and use the liquid per their recommendations. 
They say 2oz per gallon of the 1-1-1, then water each plant with 2 cups of that mixture, or 4 cups for bigger plants. I'm still gonna add my humic acid, I'm guessing their "metabolic transformer" does something similar. But for the price and application rate of that MT, I'm gonna hold off. Think I'm gonna try just using their chart, no added seaweed extract or Neptune's Harvest. I'll apply the 1-1-1 at 4/oz per gallon. With be enough to feed 8 plants 6 times. Should get me through a cycle.


----------



## myke (May 7, 2022)

Just refilling my sips going with the lasagna way.3" dirt layer of dry and ewc etc. 4 layers then a topdress and cover in sand.
Dirt has been cooking at 2 cups food fer cuft,I added another 2 cups as I filled.
Should be able to leave it for a month,die gnat eggs die! lol.


----------



## GrassBurner (May 8, 2022)

Plants seem to be happy overall  Drinking a good bit of water now, just trying to keep them fed.

Pineapple Fields


Grodd Squad is the star of the show so far


Purple Hindu Kush is a week or two behind the other plants, but very vigorous


----------



## CWF (May 8, 2022)

Single earthbox. Single bush : cannarado purple bubblegum fem, day 77 from seed (day 34 since flip). 100% organic, water only, top-dressed a time or 2 with good stuff. Waited too long to flip, and it got wild. Just defoliated for the 3rd time. Closet is 4 feet wide for scale.


----------



## GrassBurner (May 8, 2022)

CWF said:


> Single earthbox. Single bush : cannarado purple bubblegum fem, day 77 from seed (day 34 since flip). 100% organic, water only, top-dressed a time or 2 with good stuff. Waited too long to flip, and it got wild. Just defoliated for the 3rd time. Closet is 4 feet wide for scale.View attachment 5130419


Sips grow trees


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## wil2279 (May 9, 2022)

I'm here to joint the thread guys... What's up!


----------



## GrassBurner (May 9, 2022)

wil2279 said:


> I'm here to joint the thread guys... What's up!


Welcome to the party


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## LewberDewber852 (May 9, 2022)

Just got my city pickers setup. Transplanted some autos in and they didn’t skip a beat. They appear to have grown in 24hrs after transplant as well!


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## GrassBurner (May 9, 2022)

LewberDewber852 said:


> Just got my city pickers setup. Transplanted some autos in and they didn’t skip a beat. They appear to have grown in 24hrs after transplant as well!View attachment 5130693


Get ready for the explosion!!


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## LewberDewber852 (May 9, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Get ready for the explosion!!


I couldn’t believe how much soil these things ended up holding!


----------



## GrassBurner (May 9, 2022)

I love the city pickers!! My only recommendation is get something under that little fabric cover to keep moisture in. Before I did that the humidity in the tent got unmanageable, and I lost a few big colas to bud rot. I used some reflective insulation, worked perfect.


----------



## LewberDewber852 (May 9, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> I love the city pickers!! My only recommendation is get something under that little fabric cover to keep moisture in. Before I did that the humidity in the tent got unmanageable, and I lost a few big colas to bud rot. I used some reflective insulation, worked perfect.


Thanks for the heads up! Noted and will pick some up


----------



## wil2279 (May 9, 2022)

I'm totally sold on sip planters. I did a run with autos over the winter and it did alright... yes I am growing autos. I have grown photos outdoors and really wanted to try autos indoors. I may try photos indoors but maybe not for another year. I met my goals for yield... I ended up with at least 6 oz which my goal was 1oz per plant. 


But I just really felt like I could be doing better . So I ordered a few earthbox juniors and planned another auto grow. Here I am at the end of week 5 looking like a freaking jungle in the tent...


----------



## CrunchBerries (May 10, 2022)

wil2279 said:


> I'm totally sold on sip planters. I did a run with autos over the winter and it did alright... yes I am growing autos. I have grown photos outdoors and really wanted to try autos indoors. I may try photos indoors but maybe not for another year. I met my goals for yield... I ended up with at least 6 oz which my goal was 1oz per plant.
> View attachment 5130731
> 
> But I just really felt like I could be doing better . So I ordered a few earthbox juniors and planned another auto grow. Here I am at the end of week 5 looking like a freaking jungle in the tent... View attachment 5130734


----------



## Jcue81 (May 14, 2022)

Week 8 of this Sour Diesel, Apple Fritter, Wedding Pie run. Sour had her own Earthbox and the Pie and Fritter shared the other. Letting them all fade off. Absolutely sold on SIPs and spreading the SIP gospel far and wide to my new grower friends


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## Polly Wog (May 14, 2022)

The two per sip in front are still a bit hungry. I top dressed them a week or so ago. Next time one per sip in all 4. I did have to cover the sips with mylar as the evaporation with my fan on the bottom of the canopy was too great. I still haven't killed them. Around 4 weeks.


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## Polly Wog (May 14, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> I love the city pickers!! My only recommendation is get something under that little fabric cover to keep moisture in. Before I did that the humidity in the tent got unmanageable, and I lost a few big colas to bud rot. I used some reflective insulation, worked perfect.


My humidity dropped 7 points when I covered mine with mylar. I don't want to seal it off just slow it down. Thanks!


----------



## LewberDewber852 (May 17, 2022)

Wow some crazy growth in the last week and a half.
Gonna throw covers on when the flowers really start showing as @GrassBurner said!
82 degrees 
60-65 RH
Trizzlers (twenty20
Durban sunrise (twenty20)
The forge (Gnome)


----------



## CrunchBerries (May 17, 2022)

LewberDewber852 said:


> View attachment 5134923
> View attachment 5134924
> View attachment 5134925
> Wow some crazy growth in the last week and a half.
> ...


Those look as happy as a pig in shit


----------



## GrassBurner (May 17, 2022)

LewberDewber852 said:


> View attachment 5134923
> View attachment 5134924
> View attachment 5134925
> Wow some crazy growth in the last week and a half.
> ...


Nice work


----------



## CrunchBerries (May 17, 2022)

So I don’t think I ever posted up the final @70F chop day photos of the Bodhi Strawberry Temple in EBs.


----------



## CrunchBerries (May 17, 2022)

Next up is 2 Sunshine 4 #7 x Sunshine 4 #8 from DBJ in the 27gals and 1 SSDD F2 bx1 from a generous soul on Overgrow in the EB @HolyAngel (and I guess on here).You can follow my journey over there if you are so inclined. Peace y’all!
https://overgrow.com/t/crunchberries-probiotic-sip-thread/78727/317


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (May 18, 2022)

What do you cats think I'll get out of this? About a pound?  there are 4 plants in there that's a 4x4 soil bed from BAS, I water with rootwise microbes every two weeks and on the other weeks I have been using ferments. Also I have bought into using the powdered aloe and Q every watering (not sure how long I will do that, the aloe is freaking $85 for 4 ounces ouch). I'm not gonna lie these are the best looking plants I think I have had.


----------



## CrunchBerries (May 18, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> What do you cats think I'll get out of this? About a pound?  there are 4 plants in there that's a 4x4 soil bed from BAS, I water with rootwise microbes every two weeks and on the other weeks I have been using ferments. Also I have bought into using the powdered aloe and Q every watering (not sure how long I will do that, the aloe is freaking $85 for 4 ounces ouch). I'm not gonna lie these are the best looking plants I think I have had.


Do you have any Aloe plants around the house? Just use those instead. I just grab a stalk or two, blend it with some water and strain the plant material out before going in the sprayer.

Are you making your ferments? You could maybe make some JADAM wetting agent or soap nuts works also. Just some thoughts.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (May 19, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Do you have any Aloe plants around the house? Just use those instead. I just grab a stalk or two, blend it with some water and strain the plant material out before going in the sprayer.
> 
> Are you making your ferments? You could maybe make some JADAM wetting agent or soap nuts works also. Just some thoughts.


Thanks for the inputs! I do have aloe I have been neglecting that I need to do better with. Also just getting into making my own ferments. I will look into the soap nut stuff


----------



## weedstoner420 (May 22, 2022)

Well, that's a wrap for me this season......we bought a houseplant from a big box store a few months ago without checking it for pests (mistake) and turns out it was completely infested with spider mites...that was right around the time this plant started flowering. At this point they have pretty well established themselves in the weed spot, like I'm even seeing some webbing on the underside of fan leaves near the bottom. That plus a couple more buds lost to mold recently, I think it's time to call it...


My little panda film box is a nice refuge in the colder darker months, but in the summer it's all stress over temps, humidity, and bugs, and I'd rather just be playing outside. Gonna try to keep a few bonsai moms healthy and washed under a shop light for a while, and hopefully be mite-free by the fall. Peace and happy SIPing y'all!


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (May 22, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Well, that's a wrap for me this season......we bought a houseplant from a big box store a few months ago without checking it for pests (mistake) and turns out it was completely infested with spider mites...that was right around the time this plant started flowering. At this point they have pretty well established themselves in the weed spot, like I'm even seeing some webbing on the underside of fan leaves near the bottom. That plus a couple more buds lost to mold recently, I think it's time to call it...
> View attachment 5136834
> View attachment 5136833
> My little panda film box is a nice refuge in the colder darker months, but in the summer it's all stress over temps, humidity, and bugs, and I'd rather just be playing outside. Gonna try to keep a few bonsai moms healthy and washed under a shop light for a while, and hopefully be mite-free by the fall. Peace and happy SIPing y'all!


Damn man I had a bad bought of them last grow also, I ended up riding it out ans vacuuming those fuckers off every day. And then did bud wash at harvest time. Here's hoping you get a decent harvest!


----------



## weedstoner420 (May 22, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Damn man I had a bad bought of them last grow also, I ended up riding it out ans vacuuming those fuckers off every day. And then did bud wash at harvest time. Here's hoping you get a decent harvest!


I didn't mean for it to be a sad post, more like I'm glad it's done cuz it was getting to the point of me having to be in there squishing them by hand every day. I've had them worse before, this time they didn't really get a foothold til near the end. We started all our summer veggies in the basement too, and I started finding mites on those seedlings about a month before I saw them in the tent. But yah, they are nothing if not persistent, like once they're there, the only real solution is just having no plants in the space for a while, which is what I had planned on doing anyway, so it all worked out in the end


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (May 22, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> I didn't mean for it to be a sad post, more like I'm glad it's done cuz it was getting to the point of me having to be in there squishing them by hand every day. I've had them worse before, this time they didn't really get a foothold til near the end. We started all our summer veggies in the basement too, and I started finding mites on those seedlings about a month before I saw them in the tent. But yah, they are nothing if not persistent, like once they're there, the only real solution is just having no plants in the space for a while, which is what I had planned on doing anyway, so it all worked out in the end


Well that is good man, glad you are not disappointed with your results!


----------



## GenericEnigma (May 22, 2022)

I wasn't going to grow this summer, but my old SIP was empty and the sun is free.

I'm already taking care of a garden, and this thing can go a few days without attention if necessary.

I got a breeder's floor mix six-pack freebie. Two sprouted, and one was a mutant.

I'll move it inside when it flowers. Or save pollen if it happens to be male.

It seems I can't not grow.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (May 22, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Thanks for the inputs! I do have aloe I have been neglecting that I need to do better with. Also just getting into making my own ferments. I will look into the soap nut stuff


If nothing else, try using RAW yucca extract powder. It's not as expensive, and it works good, ime.


----------



## HolyAngel (May 23, 2022)

Ah nice! Yeah I'm here too lol just never post.

Veg is looking good!

Sorry to hear about the spider mites. That girl looks fantastic though so I hope it wasn't too bad and you get em knocked out for the next run ^^


----------



## weedstoner420 (May 23, 2022)

HolyAngel said:


> Ah nice! Yeah I'm here too lol just never post.
> 
> Veg is looking good!
> 
> Sorry to hear about the spider mites. That girl looks fantastic though so I hope it wasn't too bad and you get em knocked out for the next run ^^


Hey thanks! I'm pretty stoked on it and I did take clones so excited to run it again later this year.


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## weedstoner420 (May 23, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> I wasn't going to grow this summer, but my old SIP was empty and the sun is free.
> 
> I'm already taking care of a garden, and this thing can go a few days without attention if necessary.
> 
> ...


Dang that's some old school SIP action right there...


----------



## GenericEnigma (May 23, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Dang that's some old school SIP action right there...


Heck yes it is!

It was actually my pilot project for a wicking bed (I don't use the soil wicks). I had to be sure my 3/4" river gravel would wick. So the bottom four inches of that 15G pot is gravel.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (May 26, 2022)

Well this soil bed and build a soil products are freaking KILLING it! This is by far the best grow I have done so far. Fingers crossed it continues! The build a soil stuff is pretty spendy but I will for sure be reinvesting in the products that I can't make myself. I top dressed also with build a flower and a ton of dehydrated banana peels. Used the rootwise, aloe, Q and molasses today, 10 gallons. Will do 5 gallons of water again in three days. Then I use the ferments 4 days after that 10 gallons of water, repeat. Think I'm on week 3 of flower I lost track of the exact day, because it's a mad house here in spring lol


----------



## Nugbender (May 26, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Well this soil bed and build a soil products are freaking KILLING it! This is by far the best grow I have done so far. Fingers crossed it continues! The build a soil stuff is pretty spendy but I will for sure be reinvesting in the products that I can't make myself. I top dressed also with build a flower and a ton of dehydrated banana peels. Used the rootwise, aloe, Q and molasses today, 10 gallons. Will do 5 gallons of water again in three days. Then I use the ferments 4 days after that 10 gallons of water, repeat. Think I'm on week 3 of flower I lost track of the exact day, because it's a mad house here in spring lol


The BAS price also supports small local communities as well, better than giving Amazon dot com $. Great looking kids you have there, what bed frame set up is that, grass roots bed?

The great thing about soil is that the soil gets better with age when nurtured. Also much easier to maintain, in the long run. SST (Sprouted Seed Teas) are great for soils and relatively cheap for the among you can get. Kelp super cheap in bulk and is universally great for soil, microbes are probably the most costly but they also amazing work on plants.

Haven't used rootwise specifically but have others brands that have the same inoculants.


----------



## Nugbender (May 26, 2022)

Greenthumbs256 said:


> hate to see this thread die! been over week, since the last post!
> 
> heres my probiotic sip, gg4, 1 plant 4x4 scrog. Lil less than 3 weeks till chopView attachment 4281680 View attachment 4281681 View attachment 4281682


Beast mode! Great to see, this thread lives on!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (May 27, 2022)

Nugbender said:


> The BAS price also supports small local communities as well, better than giving Amazon dot com $. Great looking kids you have there, what bed frame set up is that, grass roots bed?
> 
> The great thing about soil is that the soil gets better with age when nurtured. Also much easier to maintain, in the long run. SST (Sprouted Seed Teas) are great for soils and relatively cheap for the among you can get. Kelp super cheap in bulk and is universally great for soil, microbes are probably the most costly but they also amazing work on plants.
> 
> Haven't used rootwise specifically but have others brands that have the same inoculants.


Yep grass roots 4x4 bed. The soil in it is my own mix I have been using for a few years now and re amending, lots of kelp in there for sure! I'm really loving the results from all the build a soil stuff!


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## LewberDewber852 (May 28, 2022)

Haven’t skipped a beat. SIP for the win!


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## MrX2017 (May 28, 2022)

Haven’t been on the forum in 2 years first indoor I open is this thread.
I am currently considering switching over from floraflex to LOS in sips. 27 gal black and yellow tubs
I’ve been following buildasoil for years. They are killing it with earthboxes!
.


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## Rocket Soul (May 29, 2022)

Hey sipers! 

Ive been looking around for por plastic pots/planters on hollow legs, so that the legs could be used for wick. Has anyone found a source for this?


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## Feo309 (May 29, 2022)

Welp, day 15 on these 2 girls, a Fast Buds Blue Dream’matic and a Dutch Passion Daquiri Lime Auto.

The roots were about to outgrow their 1-liter yogurt cups, so out they went into their sips.

I’m gonna top-dress with some neem meal and “mulch” with some cardboard later today.



Indoor sips will have a Bruce Banner Auto and a SamsquanchOG x Forum Stomper (hereinafter known as Bruce and Sammy, I really like to talk but I ain’t so much on typing. Lol)


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## @EastCoastGenetix (May 29, 2022)

I been running SIP planters for about 2 years for my veg. It was a super game changer. I built mines and over time I revised it and its amazing.


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## Tim Fox (May 30, 2022)

I'm taking the summer off from growing, sips are sitting idle, all my veggies are in the ground this year


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## Feo309 (May 30, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> I'm taking the summer off from growing, sips are sitting idle, all my veggies are in the ground this year


@Tim Fox -

Do you do anything particular when you let a sip sit idle? Do you keep water in the reservoir? Plant a cover crop? 

I’m in the Midwest US and I was figuring on storing 2 in the heated garage and dumping the 2 with tomatoes and recycling the soil for next year. I’m open to any and all advice.


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## Polly Wog (May 30, 2022)

They grow so well even fans grow budz....


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## weedstoner420 (May 30, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> I'm taking the summer off from growing, sips are sitting idle, all my veggies are in the ground this year


Same. I'm planning to amend and store my soil at some point soon, but for now it's still in the sips. 

Also curious about what if anything you do with yours in the off season. I'm not gonna start mine back up til Sept/Oct, wondering if I should amend the soil now and let it cook for a few months, or leave it and amend it closer to when I plan to have plants in it...


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## Tim Fox (May 30, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Same. I'm planning to amend and store my soil at some point soon, but for now it's still in the sips.
> 
> Also curious about what if anything you do with yours in the off season. I'm not gonna start mine back up til Sept/Oct, wondering if I should amend the soil now and let it cook for a few months, or leave it and amend it closer to when I plan to have plants in it...


in the past i have moved my sips out onto the front yard on the concrete where its warm in the summer and grew tomatoes and hot peppers in the sips with great success, tomato plants 6 feet tall,


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## weedstoner420 (May 30, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> in the past i have moved my sips out onto the front yard on the concrete where its warm in the summer and grew tomatoes and hot peppers in the sips with great success, tomato plants 6 feet tall,


Nice! I'm always concerned about bringing outdoor stuff back in, but I did some peppers in mine last summer (indoors) and they turned out really well


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## myke (May 30, 2022)

My sip dirt was amended and left in totes in my basement for the summer.The sips are outside with tomatoes.I have inside dirt and outside.


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## LewberDewber852 (Jun 4, 2022)

my soil mix I felt was lacking K amendments and correct me if I am wrong please but I believe that is showing!!!
Fed with some Incredible Bulk bc it’s what I had. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!! Still looking like one of my better indoor grows so I’m still very pumped on the SIPs!!!


I have also been top dressing dr. earth 4-6-3 and EWC


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jun 4, 2022)

Going into week 4 or 5 I think (yep I forgot which day I flipped lol) things seemed to be going well but found a few male parts... I'm too invested to chop it so I'm plucking and riding it out! Wish me luck!


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## Hollatchaboy (Jun 5, 2022)

Starting 3rd cycle with mine. A few more weeks and it should be ready.


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## myke (Jun 5, 2022)

It’s been a cold spring so my tomato sips under my patio have spent some time under plastic and led. Getting warmer now but I still use the lights on cooler cloudy days like today. Same dirt from last year gave it some food,lime compost as soon as it un thawed. Some other sips out in the sunshine,some older dirt that I’m just gonna feed salt food ,same as what I’d feed my flowering coco and see how that works.


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## CWF (Jun 5, 2022)

Chopped my huge bushy "rado purple bubblegum, water-only OLS earthbox single plant, 61 days flower and done the way I like it, mostly cloudy trichs top to bottom. Should be a damn good yield. The stem at the dirt level was so thick I had to use a saw to cut it, like 2.5" diameter. I took a couple pics, but screwed up the focus, and forgot to take a whole-plant pic, but here is a pic anyway. It is hanging up to dry, the best i can control it at 60% RH, and low 70s temp. Southern summer heat is here, and I am well-stocked with bud, so this will be my final grow until winter. I am totally sold on the EB, and SIPs in general; this was a completely trouble-free, hands off, water-only grow with only a top-dress once or twice. Never had a single insect in the closet, never sprayed the plant ever, no IPM, 100% pure and organic. Very happy with the results, and can't wait to smoke some.


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## Newcangro (Jun 13, 2022)

Hey guys I'm sure there a good how to build a sip planter, I'm having trouble finding one. I want to build a sip for my 4x4 tent. I am completely new to this but one to give it a shot. If anyone can point me in the right direction to a post or video that I should check out that would be awesome ! Thanks in advance


----------



## Kayaganja (Jun 13, 2022)

Newcangro said:


> Hey guys I'm sure there a good how to build a sip planter, I'm having trouble finding one. I want to build a sip for my 4x4 tent. I am completely new to this but one to give it a shot. If anyone can point me in the right direction to a post or video that I should check out that would be awesome ! Thanks in advance











DIY Self-Watering Planter


Self-watering planters are ideal for growing food! The container provides an enclosed growing system that offers a consistent water supply to your plants.




growagoodlife.com


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jun 13, 2022)

Newcangro said:


> Hey guys I'm sure there a good how to build a sip planter, I'm having trouble finding one. I want to build a sip for my 4x4 tent. I am completely new to this but one to give it a shot. If anyone can point me in the right direction to a post or video that I should check out that would be awesome ! Thanks in advance


Go to the beginning of the thread.


----------



## Xsan (Jun 13, 2022)

Kayaganja said:


> DIY Self-Watering Planter
> 
> 
> Self-watering planters are ideal for growing food! The container provides an enclosed growing system that offers a consistent water supply to your plants.
> ...



Greens probiotics thread has a few links and examples as well


----------



## myke (Jun 13, 2022)

When I first looked into sips I thought it was kinda complicated. Lol was I wrong. Very simple and so many ways to doit. They all work. I mean how much simpler can you get. Water wicks up.


----------



## meangreengrowinmachine (Jun 13, 2022)

Newcangro said:


> Hey guys I'm sure there a good how to build a sip planter, I'm having trouble finding one. I want to build a sip for my 4x4 tent. I am completely new to this but one to give it a shot. If anyone can point me in the right direction to a post or video that I should check out that would be awesome ! Thanks in advance


there is a PDF in the first few pages of this thread that has step by step instructions.


----------



## myke (Jun 13, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> there is a PDF in the first few pages of this thread that has step by step instructions.


post#4


----------



## Newcangro (Jun 13, 2022)

myke said:


> post#4





meangreengrowinmachine said:


> there is a PDF in the first few pages of this thread that has step by step instructions.


Found it and downloaded her. Going to do a sip planter for my next grow in a couple months want to build ot and get it all prepped. Also once I get this all going could I put two plants in an 18 gal system or should I just do one plant to each container


----------



## bird dog (Jun 15, 2022)

Humanrob said:


> *Sub-irrigated planter*
> _From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia_
> 
> 
> ...


I just go to the local Lowes, Walmart, etc. and get 2.5 gal plastic growing pots with water slots at the bottom and the pot sits in a petri dish that collects thru the dirt for later.


----------



## ninjadudexp (Jun 18, 2022)

Tried digging through these post. How would I add stuff like rootwise? Let res dry up then top water then fill bottom. Or would it be just fine in the rez


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## Hollatchaboy (Jun 18, 2022)

ninjadudexp said:


> Tried digging through these post. How would I add stuff like rootwise? Let res dry up then top water then fill bottom. Or would it be just fine in the rez


It probably wouldn't hurt it to add to the res, but I feel like it would be more beneficial to water in from the top. Just wait till the res runs dry, and water in from the top.


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## TugthePup (Jun 24, 2022)

Polly Wog said:


> View attachment 5107287


How large is this tent?


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## myke (Jun 26, 2022)

Little behind this year but growing strong. These are 27 gallon sips. The second pic are 10 gallon.


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## MrsJake (Jun 30, 2022)

@EastCoastGenetix said:


> I been running SIP planters for about 2 years for my veg. It was a super game changer. I built mines and over time I revised it and its amazing.View attachment 5141135View attachment 5141136View attachment 5141138


Hi! I would love to get the details of your SIP designs. I've tried a couple of times with not so great results. I requested to follow you on Instagram. Thank you!


----------



## CrunchBerries (Jul 1, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Came home to a jungle in the 2x2 tent!
> View attachment 5116166
> 
> Got the 2x4 cabinet opened up, and put the 3 smaller plants from the 2x2 in there. 1 plant is a squatty little fucker, got him a booster seat
> ...


Hey @GrassBurner, would you mind if I shared this photo of your sip setup over on the OG SIP thread? We’ve been discussing smalller sips and we thought of your set up and wanted to share. Cool or nah?


----------



## GrassBurner (Jul 1, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Hey @GrassBurner, would you mind if I shared this photo of your sip setup over on the OG SIP thread? We’ve been discussing smalller sips and we thought of your set up and wanted to share. Cool or nah?


Go for it


----------



## CrunchBerries (Jul 1, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Go for it


Thanks brother! Join us over there. We got a good thing going!


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## CrunchBerries (Jul 1, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Go for it


Is the food container setup 4 gals?


----------



## MrsJake (Jul 2, 2022)

MrsJake said:


> Hi @EastCoastGenetix ! I would love to get the details of your SIP designs. I've tried a couple of times with not so great results. I requested to follow you on Instagram. Thank you!


----------



## CrunchBerries (Jul 2, 2022)

Hi @MrsJake ,
I believe there are diy plans at the beginning of this thread. Here is a link to another: http://albopepper.com/30-gallon-tote.php that you can use as a basis. Hope this helps, but let me know if you have questions.


----------



## MrsJake (Jul 2, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Hi @MrsJake ,
> I believe there are diy plans at the beginning of this thread. Here is a link to another: http://albopepper.com/30-gallon-tote.php that you can use as a basis. Hope this helps, but let me know if you have questions.


Thank you!!


----------



## CrunchBerries (Jul 2, 2022)

MrsJake said:


> Thank you!!


Greenthumbs Probiotic thread has other designs and ideas also.


----------



## GenericEnigma (Jul 3, 2022)

MrsJake said:


> Hi! I would love to get the details of your SIP designs. I've tried a couple of times with not so great results. I requested to follow you on Instagram. Thank you!


Another SIP design is the wicking bed.






Living Soil Wicking Beds


I'm working a wicking bed, but am fascinated with all SIP styles and all plants grown in them. This is my fourth cannabis grow. Once I had the design in my head and materials gathered, it took roughly four hours to assemble.



www.rollitup.org


----------



## CrunchBerries (Jul 3, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> Another SIP design is the wicking bed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would advise against the use of the aluminum downspout material, as the aluminum will degrade and end up in your soil, food, etc. Corrugated drainage pipe would be a better alternative.


----------



## GenericEnigma (Jul 3, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> I would advise against the use of the aluminum downspout material, as the aluminum will degrade and end up in your soil, food, etc. Corrugated drainage pipe would be a better alternative.


I've been dragging my feet on pulling them apart to fully inspect everything after the grow. I should do so and post what I find. I will be firing them back up in a couple of months.


----------



## myke (Jul 3, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> I've been dragging my feet on pulling them apart to fully inspect everything after the grow. I should do so and post what I find. I will be firing them back up in a couple of months.


Seams a lot of us sip ers take the summer off.


----------



## GenericEnigma (Jul 4, 2022)

myke said:


> Seams a lot of us sip ers take the summer off.


I kinda mess around with outdoor growing. Like I popped a few freebies to see what would happen. I found a decent one I'll try to do a four-clone grow from this fall (at least that's the plan currently).

But since I grow in a shop with no A/C, I can't fire up a light without it getting up past 90dF in the tent this time of year.

Got some hail damage a couple days ago.


----------



## myke (Jul 4, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> I kinda mess around with outdoor growing. Like I popped a few freebies to see what would happen. I found a decent one I'll try to do a four-clone grow from this fall (at least that's the plan currently).
> 
> But since I grow in a shop with no A/C, I can't fire up a light without it getting up past 90dF in the tent this time of year.
> 
> Got some hail damage a couple days ago.


I got one under my patio,doesnt get direct sun but its growing.More just for kicks,will start 12/12 shortly so I have some bud on it by end of August.


----------



## Kayaganja (Jul 5, 2022)

myke said:


> Seams a lot of us sip ers take the summer off.


Some are just sipping outdoors


----------



## LordEnki (Jul 9, 2022)

What's an adequate amount of air space between water and soil tub? 
The way I have it now I might have 1/2 an inch maybe...


----------



## weedstoner420 (Jul 9, 2022)

LordEnki said:


> What's an adequate amount of air space between water and soil tub?
> The way I have it now I might have 1/2 an inch maybe...


1/2" should be plenty. I'd imagine as long as the main soil "bed" isn't in direct contact with water you're good


----------



## LordEnki (Jul 9, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> 1/2" should be plenty. I'd imagine as long as the main soil "bed" isn't in direct contact with water you're good


Thanks... I wasn't sure how much was enough.


----------



## LordEnki (Jul 10, 2022)

With about 1/2" air space between the top tub and water I'm left with a reservoir of 10ish liters or about 2.6 gallons. Hopefully thats enough water. I guess re-filling the reservoir every few days is better than the alternative.
I've got a while until my 1 gallons are ready for transplant, but I can't wait to try this SIP.
I only need to drill small holes in the bottom of the top tub and I think I'm good to go.
I have 2 seedlings started, so Im going to use a 10 gallon SIP for 1 plant and the other is going into a 10 gallon fabric pot with a Blumat Tropf Maxi.


----------



## myke (Jul 10, 2022)

LordEnki said:


> With about 1/2" air space between the top tub and water I'm left with a reservoir of 10ish liters or about 2.6 gallons. Hopefully thats enough water. I guess re-filling the reservoir every few days is better than the alternative.
> I've got a while until my 1 gallons are ready for transplant, but I can't wait to try this SIP.
> I only need to drill small holes in the bottom of the top tub and I think I'm good to go.
> I have 2 seedlings started, so Im going to use a 10 gallon SIP for 1 plant and the other is going into a 10 gallon fabric pot with a Blumat Tropf Maxi.


10g of soil? Should be good,my first was a 10 worked well.Big plant needed refill every other day in mid flower.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Jul 10, 2022)

myke said:


> 10g of soil? Should be good,my first was a 10 worked well.Big plant needed refill every other day in mid flower.View attachment 5161266


My earthbox has 7-8 gallons of soil, and a 2ish gallon res. I refill every other day mid flower. Seems about right


----------



## myke (Jul 10, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> My earthbox has 7-8 gallons of soil, and a 2ish gallon res. I refill every other day mid flower. Seems about right


Ya,Mine were about 2 gallons of water also.


----------



## LordEnki (Jul 10, 2022)

myke said:


> 10g of soil? Should be good,my first was a 10 worked well.Big plant needed refill every other day in mid flower.View attachment 5161266


Good to hear 2ish gallons in the reservoir will work. I dont mind filling water up.
yes, 10 gallons of soil. I've used the same 45 litre totes you have there, Myke.


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## 2cent (Jul 12, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> Air injecting Sips,,, Yup it works, I am going to order a Fusion fish tank pump for 8 bucks delered on Ebay to go with my earthbox


Ye but the Fukien worms r dead too


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## 2cent (Jul 12, 2022)

Been through pages where is the guide to make one 
I’m tryin to hook up 8 pots


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## Tim Fox (Jul 12, 2022)

2cent said:


> Ye but the Fukien worms r dead too


I.ended up not using air stones


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## myke (Jul 13, 2022)

Sipping along.


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## 2cent (Jul 14, 2022)

So it’s basically an oxy pot but with a fabric pot on top and net pot filled with pearlite ??

I was contiplating recirculating it slowly like a stream
4big tubs 2 connected each side to control bucket
and recirc pump 1000 to the end 2tubs it would just slowly drain back to the control with gravity right ??

so I can run overflow tube at the air gap back to control too just in case of anything overfilling or blocking

but basically you don’t need the pipe tubes in the bottom there just to give room to a permanently homed sips water right ?

if it’s in a bucket in a bucket it’s kinda doing the same thing ?

like my pic here ..the big square in the middle is my 200gal bed cooking I’m trying to grow around it


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## GenericEnigma (Jul 14, 2022)

2cent said:


> So it’s basically an oxy pot but with a fabric pot on top and net pot filled with pearlite ??
> 
> I was contiplating recirculating it slowly like a stream
> 4big tubs 2 connected each side to control bucket
> ...


That's a pretty cool idea. 

You growing in soil? What holds the weight of the fabric pots, the net pots? 

I don't know if I would bother with circulation.

Not totally sure what pipes in the bottom you mean, but the short upright pipes are more structual than anything, I think.

I haven't wicked using perlite. Will the fabric pots have to be smaller than the net pots so they can sit down in a depression, or will they wick well just being in contact?


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## 2cent (Jul 14, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> That's a pretty cool idea.
> 
> You growing in soil? What holds the weight of the fabric pots, the net pots?
> 
> ...


well my idea sits with this 
them buckets if you sit 1 inside the other leaves a 2inch gap
netpots I have are strong and have screw mounts I can screw to the other bucket bottom 

so I’d screw netnpot to a bucket base and cut out hole
cover in weed membrane inside the net pot to stop pearlite exiting and help wick and fill pearlite into the bucket for 1 inch 

now my fabric pots fit snug in the bucket with finger room and are sat on pearlite removable if needed via fabric pot or bucket it sits in to see water level 

I planned to recirc as I hate air stones it would stop stagnant water forming and increase oxygen without infiltrating the soil like the air stone method in soil did on the video 
also keeps the level topped up lol again not needed but possible 

by pipes I wouldn’t need the vertical one as it has a control res I mean I’d have the main water connection but always I run overflow pipes invade of floods or in this case invade of overfill but this will return to the res control as I can’t run it on my carpet but if recirculating it would allow it to return and not fill the airgap


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## GenericEnigma (Jul 14, 2022)

2cent said:


> well my idea sits with this
> them buckets if you sit 1 inside the other leaves a 2inch gap
> netpots I have are strong and have screw mounts I can screw to the other bucket bottom
> 
> ...


Hell yeah. With the float valve, the reservoir/net pot wouldn't have to be very deep. If you've got a reliable float valve and everything's tight, I think it's worth a shot. It's kind of a closed, automatic system.

Keep us posted.


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## MrsJake (Jul 16, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Hi @MrsJake ,
> I believe there are diy plans at the beginning of this thread. Here is a link to another: http://albopepper.com/30-gallon-tote.php that you can use as a basis. Hope this helps, but let me know if you have questions.


Thank you!


CrunchBerries said:


> Hi @MrsJake ,
> I believe there are diy plans at the beginning of this thread. Here is a link to another: http://albopepper.com/30-gallon-tote.php that you can use as a basis. Hope this helps, but let me know if you have questions.


@CrunchBerries Thank you so much!


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## CWF (Jul 29, 2022)

For my own curiosity, I dumped out my Earthbox after the last grow. I saved all the soil into a clean bin to use again. It is too hot and humid to start anything until end of August in my circumstances. 

The plant,, which was planted closer to the end of the EB opposite the fill tube, had sent most of it's roots down the closest wick corner. There were almost no roots at the other end wick, but the top where I top-dressed was heavy with fine roots. This suggests to me I could do two plants per EB if I veg less.

The plant was vigorous throughout the grow, and stayed real green until the end, so I think the soil is good to go again. I'll prob add a bit of silica mineral and micronutrients, and maybe a bit of hi-N amendment, and a bit more aeration. Trying to find cheap pumice near me. Then run with it when it cools off a bit. Something really fuelly-skunky this time. Puck x Sensi Star or Guerilla Fume'.


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## Smscreations (Jul 31, 2022)

After finally reading thru this entire thread, I decided to jump on the SIP wagon. Putting some DIY totes to the test in the new cabinet.

Got a journal going for it as well Laundry Storage Closet....Not for Laundry





Thank to all that contributed to this thread!!

Cheers!!


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 7, 2022)

Just out of curiousity, what's the thoughts on using a sip, with coco, and hydro nutes?


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## myke (Aug 7, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Just out of curiousity, what's the thoughts on using a sip, with coco, and hydro nutes?


Really not much different then soil and top feeding salt,my one batch of sips with tomatoes is fed salts from above.Seams to be OK,I have been feeding light though.

A friend has some in a green house,weed and tomatoes.He feeds salts in res but not much,last I looked they appear hungry.


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 7, 2022)

myke said:


> Really not much different then soil and top feeding salt,my one batch of sips with tomatoes is fed salts from above.Seams to be OK,I have been feeding light though.
> 
> A friend has some in a green house,weed and tomatoes.He feeds salts in res but not much,last I looked they appear hungry.


Well my thinking is, coco isn't supposed to get dry. In a sip it mostly never would. The only problem I can see, would be the flushing of the old nutes and replacing with fresh.


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## myke (Aug 7, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Well my thinking is, coco isn't supposed to get dry. In a sip it mostly never would. The only problem I can see, would be the flushing of the old nutes and replacing with fresh.


Ya Im waiting for mine to show over feed,so far so good.
Would be just a matter of using the right amount at the right time I guess.Over feed and ya you'd have to have a way to flush I guess?


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 7, 2022)

myke said:


> Ya Im waiting for mine to show over feed,so far so good.
> Would be just a matter of using the right amount at the right time I guess.Over feed and ya you'd have to have a way to flush I guess?


Sounds too difficult. Lol


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## GenericEnigma (Aug 8, 2022)

I want to show you all some ad hoc madness.

Since it's 100dF or more each day, I can't keep my reservoir full (lol, I called it a reservoir). So I pulled out my water timer/valve and put it in the middle of a siphon hose.


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## Smscreations (Aug 11, 2022)

Still have the ladies in little one gallon pots sitting in the SIPs. First picture you can see the 2- 2 inch wicks have helped saturated the entire tote until about a 1/2inch below my top dress layer. Temp was high and humidty low in the box that day. Few more nodes on the end ones and I wanna get them into the SIPs that way I can top everyone down to the same height.


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## LordEnki (Aug 16, 2022)

15 days growth... I'm quite happy with my SIP so far. I don't know why I didn't use em sooner!


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## myke (Aug 17, 2022)

Gearing up for another run jars are low,clones are potted in 2g with last runs dirt.
Probably going with 27g tote in tote sips,2 plants in ea.

Cleaning and organizing has begun,so much useless shit in my space.Why I keep it I have no idea.


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## GenericEnigma (Aug 17, 2022)

myke said:


> Gearing up for another run jars are low,clones are potted in 2g with last runs dirt.
> Probably going with 27g tote in tote sips,2 plants in ea.
> 
> Cleaning and organizing has begun,so much useless shit in my space.Why I keep it I have no idea.


Right on. I just cleaned up my tent yesterday.

Shocked to see water in the reservoirs and life in the soil. The SIPS have been sitting in the dark ignored for three months.

Got some clones from that big outdoor plant - which I chopped. It was already taller than my fence and just starting to stretch. Scared of rippers around here.

Looks like we're in about the same spot. What did you clone?


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 17, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> Right on. I just cleaned up my tent yesterday.
> 
> Shocked to see water in the reservoirs and life in the soil. The SIPS have been sitting in the dark ignored for three months.
> 
> ...


I just chopped my cover crop, and added about 3/4 cup craft blend, and about 1/8 cup kashi blend, covered it, and I'll let it sit a few weeks while I wait for a clone to root and veg a lil.


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## Smscreations (Aug 17, 2022)

Transplanted into the SIPs on Sunday evening
Gorilla Zkittlez was rootbound in her 1 gallon pot and not happy lol.


Here they are about an hour ago. Safe to say they are loving their new digs.




Got some rice wash sitting to makes some LAB next week to put down in the reservoirs. If I'm sitting at right about 2 gallons of water in reservoir, how much of the LABs should I put down there??


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 17, 2022)

Smscreations said:


> Transplanted into the SIPs on Sunday evening
> Gorilla Zkittlez was rootbound in her 1 gallon pot and not happy lol.
> View attachment 5182783
> 
> ...


I think I added an ounce per gallon of em1. Should be about the same for you.


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## myke (Aug 18, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> Right on. I just cleaned up my tent yesterday.
> 
> Shocked to see water in the reservoirs and life in the soil. The SIPS have been sitting in the dark ignored for three months.
> 
> ...


Im running same clones as last run,White Widow, clone Ive had for a long time.Funny females in my group like it so its number 1 in my collection.Frosted fruit cake is another ,its a 12 week strain.Nice flavor and good producer.Others are a deep purple type strain.They all finish at different times so harvesting is a 1 month thing.Works for me as I don't have the space to dry all at once.


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## xtsho (Aug 18, 2022)

A little off topic but close enough I think.

Here's my plan. 

I have plants in 3.5 gallon black plastic pots. These pots will fit into 5 gallon buckets. My plan is to put rocks, marbles, hydroton, etc... on the bottom of the buckets at a level where the top of the pot will fit flush. That would leave 6-8 inches from the bottom of the pots to the bottom of the buckets. I would put a piece of PVC down the side of the pots as a fill tube. Think that would work for an on the fly SIP?


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## Southernontariogrower (Aug 18, 2022)

Does anyone aerate sips? Used a 5 gal bucket under a cloth pot, after l added a bubbler root health increased tenfold. Or would this be a soil dwc hybrid?


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## groworm (Aug 19, 2022)

xtsho said:


> A little off topic but close enough I think.
> 
> Here's my plan.
> 
> I have plants in 3.5 gallon black plastic pots. These pots will fit into 5 gallon buckets. My plan is to put rocks, marbles, hydroton, etc... on the bottom of the buckets at a level where the top of the pot will fit flush. That would leave 6-8 inches from the bottom of the pots to the bottom of the buckets. I would put a piece of PVC down the side of the pots as a fill tube. Think that would work for an on the fly SIP?


Woudn't the hydroton etc. take up a lot of the reservoir space while also doing a very poor job of wicking?


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## GenericEnigma (Aug 19, 2022)

xtsho said:


> A little off topic but close enough I think.
> 
> Here's my plan.
> 
> I have plants in 3.5 gallon black plastic pots. These pots will fit into 5 gallon buckets. My plan is to put rocks, marbles, hydroton, etc... on the bottom of the buckets at a level where the top of the pot will fit flush. That would leave 6-8 inches from the bottom of the pots to the bottom of the buckets. I would put a piece of PVC down the side of the pots as a fill tube. Think that would work for an on the fly SIP?


It could work. My concern here would be the interface between the hydroton and the soil. I'm assuming the use of some kind of "soil" as a medium.

I'd put some clay balls in the bottom of the 3.5G pot (a few inches deep) and none in the 5G (except what may be needed to keep the 3.5G top flush with the 5G pot - just for ease of access for topdressing - (and some other spacer could work as well)). Then the soil would get watered by wicking from a reservoir filled enough so the water level almost comes up to the interface between hydroton and soil in the 3.5G. I kinda doubt this system would wick well once the water level has fallen below the bottom of the 3.5G pot (the plastic of the 3.5G could be too much of a break in the wicking dynamic). Some folks use fabric pots in a scenario like this as the fabric doesn't break the wicking path (and if this is done, hydroton in the bottom of the fabric pot wouldn't be necessary).

The issue here is that the bigger you make your active reservoir (the bottom part of the 3.5G with hydroton that sits in the water), the less soil will be in the 3.5G.

The PVC pipe wouldn't be absolutely necessary for filling the reservoir (as you could dump water down between the pot and the bucket), but it might be easier/cleaner depending on your overall layout.

A landscaping fabric might serve well as a barrier between the soil and the clay in the 3.5G. Not 100% necessary, I don't think, but it would be cleaner and wouldn't inhibit the wicking.

It might be easier to forego the 5G and just use a deep saucer - one deep enough to submerge most of the hydroton in the 3.5G. If you have tons of 5G buckets, 3.5G pots, and hydroton sitting around and you just want to try some shit, I think this could be made to work, though. An overflow hole drilled in the 5G bucket at a level just below the bottom of the soil in the 3.5G pot would be a safety against overfilling the reservoir and over saturating the soil.

This kind of stuff can be hard to explain in writing, so I'd be happy to clarify if this is a bit opaque.


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## myke (Aug 19, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> It could work. My concern here would be the interface between the hydroton and the soil. I'm assuming the use of some kind of "soil" as a medium.
> 
> I'd put some clay balls in the bottom of the 3.5G pot (a few inches deep) and none in the 5G (except what may be needed to keep the 3.5G top flush with the 5G pot - just for ease of access for topdressing - (and some other spacer could work as well)). Then the soil would get watered by wicking from a reservoir filled enough so the water level almost comes up to the interface between hydroton and soil in the 3.5G. I kinda doubt this system would wick well once the water level has fallen below the bottom of the 3.5G pot (the plastic of the 3.5G could be too much of a break in the wicking dynamic). Some folks use fabric pots in a scenario like this as the fabric doesn't break the wicking path (and if this is done, hydroton in the bottom of the fabric pot wouldn't be necessary).
> 
> ...


Makes sense to me,there has to be a wick of some sort.Two plastic pots will need either a small net pot for a wick or a strip of fabric sticking out the bottom of the 3.5g pot.


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## myke (Aug 19, 2022)

xtsho said:


> A little off topic but close enough I think.
> 
> Here's my plan.
> 
> I have plants in 3.5 gallon black plastic pots. These pots will fit into 5 gallon buckets. My plan is to put rocks, marbles, hydroton, etc... on the bottom of the buckets at a level where the top of the pot will fit flush. That would leave 6-8 inches from the bottom of the pots to the bottom of the buckets. I would put a piece of PVC down the side of the pots as a fill tube. Think that would work for an on the fly SIP?


What makes it difficult is you already have plants in.The bottom would need a bunch of holes and probably up the sides a little.I know clay pebbles will wick a long ways so as long as the dirt doesn't sit in the water it should work.


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## xtsho (Aug 19, 2022)

myke said:


> What makes it difficult is you already have plants in.The bottom would need a bunch of holes and probably up the sides a little.I know clay pebbles will wick a long ways so as long as the dirt doesn't sit in the water it should work.



I had thought of running some wicking material from the bottom of the pot. The more I think about it the more I realize it's not worth the effort. I was trying to cut down on the watering maintenance. It's been so hot that keeping things hydrated is becoming a pain. I'll just deal with it this season but I'm definitely going to be using Sip's outdoors next year. 

Thanks for the feedback.


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## myke (Aug 19, 2022)

These things are a growing.


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## Smscreations (Aug 19, 2022)

myke said:


> These things are a growing. View attachment 5183945


Damn that thing is massive. I've been talking about SIPs to my Dad and trying to get him to convert his 5 gallon bucket stadium setup to some of these. What are you running for soil and nutes for your veggies?


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## myke (Aug 19, 2022)

Smscreations said:


> Damn that thing is massive. I've been talking about SIPs to my Dad and trying to get him to convert his 5 gallon bucket stadium setup to some of these. What are you running for soil and nutes for your veggies?


Gaia 444 EWC.Soil was made spring of 21' Same basic mix as my indoor ones.

I did add extra kelp and frass not long ago.

Under my patio it gets hot, dirt seams to love it.Lots of white fuzz.


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## Smscreations (Aug 19, 2022)

myke said:


> Gaia 444 EWC.Soil was made spring of 21' Same basic mix as my indoor ones.
> 
> I did add extra kelp and frass not long ago.
> 
> Under my patio it gets hot, dirt seams to love it.Lots of white fuzz.


Nice!! 
I completely forgot that I topdressed more Kashi when I transplanted my SIPs and freaked when I saw a thick layer of fuzz while trimming the plants last night lol. Was like, wait, that's supposed to be there haha


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## Somatek (Aug 19, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Well my thinking is, coco isn't supposed to get dry. In a sip it mostly never would. The only problem I can see, would be the flushing of the old nutes and replacing with fresh.


Bottom feeding with mineral salt fertilizers runs a much bigger risk of nutrient lock up, you could solve it by adding a drain so you can empty the res, flush your plants and then shut the valve and refill. Depending on the system you're planning to run it could be more complicated but that's just an excuse for creative problem solving.


----------



## Somatek (Aug 19, 2022)

Southernontariogrower said:


> Does anyone aerate sips? Used a 5 gal bucket under a cloth pot, after l added a bubbler root health increased tenfold. Or would this be a soil dwc hybrid?


Sounds like a hybrid unless you're using bottled nutes then it's straight hydro. It reminds me of a dual root zone aquaponic system, although there the soil is another type of filter to keep the water clean for the fish. Adding a bubbler makes sense though, roots need air so if they're growing into the res then keep it aerated.


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## myke (Aug 20, 2022)

A few in this thread have tried air stones,dont think there was a definitive answer?


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 20, 2022)

myke said:


> A few in this thread have tried air stones,dont think there was a definitive answer?


I was reading one that said he was using them initially. After a couple years he said he didn't use them anymore, but didn't explain why. My guess is it didn't make a difference. If it works without them, why use them?


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## Smscreations (Aug 20, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I was reading one that said he was using them initially. After a couple years he said he didn't use them anymore, but didn't explain why. My guess is it didn't make a difference. If it works without them, why use them?


I wanna say that was @Tim Fox that said he was no longer using air stones?? Do I have that correct?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 20, 2022)

Smscreations said:


> I wanna say that was @Tim Fox that said he was no longer using air stones?? Do I have that correct?


Yea, I'm pretty sure it was him.


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## raggyb (Aug 20, 2022)

I'm leaving my airstones in but idk? My rez are deep so not much flow so feel it's added insurance.


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## Hollatchaboy (Aug 20, 2022)

raggyb said:


> I'm leaving my airstones in but idk? My rez are deep so not much flow so feel it's added insurance.


What's the volume of the res?


----------



## raggyb (Aug 21, 2022)

the res under the wick is about 4 Gals and each one has a small airstone.


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## Tim Fox (Aug 22, 2022)

Smscreations said:


> I wanna say that was @Tim Fox that said he was no longer using air stones?? Do I have that correct?


Correct I stopped using air stones


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## Smscreations (Aug 28, 2022)

Question for the vets using SIPs. checking to see if roots had jumped the air gap yet, I noticed my water reservoir smelled like a fish tank. My wicks also had some slimy goop (best I can describe it lol). It looks as if a bit of my soil mix dropped into the reservoir when it was all settling into thr tote. Ended up cleaning out the reservoirs really well and washing the wicks off. Refilled with fresh water and some LABs. Is this normal operation of SIPs or do I need to make corrections regarding my setup?


----------



## myke (Aug 28, 2022)

Smscreations said:


> Question for the vets using SIPs. checking to see if roots had jumped the air gap yet, I noticed my water reservoir smelled like a fish tank. My wicks also had some slimy goop (best I can describe it lol). It looks as if a bit of my soil mix dropped into the reservoir when it was all settling into thr tote. Ended up cleaning out the reservoirs really well and washing the wicks off. Refilled with fresh water and some LABs. Is this normal operation of SIPs or do I need to make corrections regarding my setup?
> 
> View attachment 5188695


Mine always have dirt in them. I’ve never added anything to my res. Other then fresh water from my tap which has chlorine in it.


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## myke (Aug 28, 2022)

I get a smell of wet dirt when I harvest


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## Smscreations (Aug 28, 2022)

myke said:


> I get a smell of wet dirt when I harvest


Yea, this reminded me a lot of when I had some Red Eared Sliders in a big 55 gallon tank. Smelled the same as when it was time to give the turtle tank a good cleaning.


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## Tim Fox (Aug 30, 2022)

Smscreations said:


> Question for the vets using SIPs. checking to see if roots had jumped the air gap yet, I noticed my water reservoir smelled like a fish tank. My wicks also had some slimy goop (best I can describe it lol). It looks as if a bit of my soil mix dropped into the reservoir when it was all settling into thr tote. Ended up cleaning out the reservoirs really well and washing the wicks off. Refilled with fresh water and some LABs. Is this normal operation of SIPs or do I need to make corrections regarding my setup?
> 
> View attachment 5188695


I have had bits of soil in my res before, I've never changed the water, i fill with tap water, I'm on a well, my res always looks clear and smells fine


----------



## LordEnki (Aug 31, 2022)

If people are concerned with soil in the reservoir water, what are people using to wick? I've used a 5 inch net pot and it's filled with the same soil that's above it... should I be concerned?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 31, 2022)

LordEnki said:


> If people are concerned with soil in the reservoir water, what are people using to wick? I've used a 5 inch net pot and it's filled with the same soil that's above it... should I be concerned?


No. My earthbox uses soil wicks, and i get all kinds of soil in my res.

I've noticed some funky smell from the res, but it never was detrimental, but then again, the res never had water in it for more than 2 days when I noticed the smell. Once the res was dry again, the smell went away.


----------



## dr_professor (Aug 31, 2022)

I built some SIP containers to give this method a try. I followed the instructions here: https://www.rollitup.org/t/sip-thread-sub-irrigated-planter.904886/post-13026343

Unfortunately, my pots aren't wicking and I have to drench from the top as usual. I deviated from the instructions a bit and wanted to get some feedback, hopefully it's an easy fix.

1. I didn't fill to almost the top of the reservoir. I was reading that it's possible to overwater and wanted to be cautious
2. I didn't line my fabric pot with plastic. I also didn't cover the top with plastic. Just have a layer of mulch on top

How critical are these two items?


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## raggyb (Aug 31, 2022)

dr_professor said:


> I built some SIP containers to give this method a try. I followed the instructions here: https://www.rollitup.org/t/sip-thread-sub-irrigated-planter.904886/post-13026343
> 
> Unfortunately, my pots aren't wicking and I have to drench from the top as usual. I deviated from the instructions a bit and wanted to get some feedback, hopefully it's an easy fix.
> 
> ...


Try priming the soil with top watering to get things going for the first week or two after planting. Compaction of the soil matters too. Make sure it's somwhat compact throughout, imho.


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## GenericEnigma (Aug 31, 2022)

dr_professor said:


> I built some SIP containers to give this method a try. I followed the instructions here: https://www.rollitup.org/t/sip-thread-sub-irrigated-planter.904886/post-13026343
> 
> Unfortunately, my pots aren't wicking and I have to drench from the top as usual. I deviated from the instructions a bit and wanted to get some feedback, hopefully it's an easy fix.
> 
> ...


How critical? It depends.

If I were in your situation, I would want to test the wicking. If it's wicking, but not dampening the medium much, I would say it's drying out too fast for whatever reason (low RH, too much air movement, hydrophobic soil, etc.). I would wrap the sides of the fabric pot and maybe cover the top to see what happens.

If it's not wicking at all, there is likely a problem with your medium (probably hydrophobic). In this case, see raggyb's post above.

It's possible to overwater with a SIP, but not if your wick is the right size for the container. Some discussion and experiment on this is buried in this thread.

How did you deviate from the instructions?


----------



## Smscreations (Aug 31, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> No. My earthbox uses soil wicks, and i get all kinds of soil in my res.
> 
> I've noticed some funky smell from the res, but it never was detrimental, but then again, the res never had water in it for more than 2 days when I noticed the smell. Once the res was dry again, the smell went away.


I'm pretty sure I figure out why my rez smelled so funky. Noticed when I was cleaning everything that the bottom half of my wicks had washed out in the rez and the soil was no longer wicking water. My guess is however many days went by like that the water was just stagnant and not being utilized and started smelling like a turtle tank lol. Fixed the wicks since and everything is back in working order


----------



## myke (Aug 31, 2022)

I figured out to get rid of the smell. 










Stop smelling it


----------



## GenericEnigma (Aug 31, 2022)

myke said:


> I figured out to get rid of the smell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am going to experiment with LABS in my reservoir this winter. I made some with brown rice for my gut, and figured the plants might like it, too. My reservoir has never stunk before, but it's only ever had chloramine-tap water.


----------



## dr_professor (Aug 31, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> How did you deviate from the instructions?


Thanks for the ideas. Will definitely give them a try. The 2 items I mentioned are the two instructions I didn't follow. Filling to the top and lining the fabric. 

I'm going to start with lining, since it's easily reversible. Will see how far that gets me


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Aug 31, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> I am going to experiment with LABS in my reservoir this winter. I made some with brown rice for my gut, and figured the plants might like it, too. My reservoir has never stunk before, but it's only ever had chloramine-tap water.


I tried em1 in my res. Didn't help. @myke Is right, no smelling it. Especially if there's no visual problems.


----------



## weedstoner420 (Aug 31, 2022)

dr_professor said:


> I built some SIP containers to give this method a try. I followed the instructions here: https://www.rollitup.org/t/sip-thread-sub-irrigated-planter.904886/post-13026343
> 
> Unfortunately, my pots aren't wicking and I have to drench from the top as usual. I deviated from the instructions a bit and wanted to get some feedback, hopefully it's an easy fix.
> 
> ...


That's an interesting design...I would guess you need to pack the wick pretty dang tight with coco if you want it to pull water all the way up the tube once the water level gets low. 

Seems like most sip designs are more wide than tall, especially the res, just cuz it's easier to wick up 4-6" than 12-14". In the design you shared I'd imagine you gotta keep the water level pretty high for good wicking, which kinda defeats the purpose of having such a giant res.

I'd start by filling the res up almost all the way. With that design it looks like you could have the res completely full with no issues. If it still doesn't wick well enough, since you already have the totes and corrugated pipe, maybe switch to one of the tote-in-tote designs with the pipes laying horizontally in the bottom tote for support.


----------



## Hash Hound (Aug 31, 2022)

xtsho said:


> I had thought of running some wicking material from the bottom of the pot. The more I think about it the more I realize it's not worth the effort. I was trying to cut down on the watering maintenance. ........
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.


xtsho I think a wick would be less work. your 6-8" of stones is taking up more space than the water is.

I use a more swick than sip but I eliminate the need for stones and perlite by placing the bag on top of a cut out piece of an old bag for the wick on a plant riser easy peasy.. You could run a piece of wick through the bottom of the bucket and have more water.

Are you bottom feeding plain water for organics or synthetics nutes. I do plain water mostly but cal/mag once a week


----------



## ImpulsiveGrower (Aug 31, 2022)

44 days from seed 15 days in flower! I love these earthboxes but the plants got to tall so I had to improvise.


----------



## CWF (Aug 31, 2022)

I just re-filled my EB for the next round, and I packed straight Pro-Mix Bx in the two wicks very hard. Then I shop-vac'd the spillage up before putting in the floor and filling it up with the LOS from last run. I watered it good but not to the point of soaked. This is what I did last time and had no problems or smells. BTW: I do not keep the res filled - I add water when there is no visible water in the tube.

Transplant will go in after a few days when I get them sexed. I will not add water to the box res until the transplant shows it is rooted, and raging. Last time this only took a few days.


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## ImpulsiveGrower (Sep 1, 2022)

CWF said:


> I just re-filled my EB for the next round, and I packed straight Pro-Mix Bx in the two wicks very hard. Then I shop-vac'd the spillage up before putting in the floor and filling it up with the LOS from last run. I watered it good but not to the point of soaked. This is what I did last time and had no problems or smells. BTW: I do not keep the res filled - I add water when there is no visible water in the tube.
> 
> Transplant will go in after a few days when I get them sexed. I will not add water to the box res until the transplant shows it is rooted, and raging. Last time this only took a few days.


A trick I’ve been using is laying down a layer of paper towel before packing the wicks and filling with soil.


----------



## LordEnki (Sep 2, 2022)

ImpulsiveGrower said:


> A trick I’ve been using is laying down a layer of paper towel before packing the wicks and filling with soil.


wouldn't landscape fabric be a better alternative to paper towels?


----------



## BigGpops (Sep 2, 2022)

I use landscape materials but perlite for wicking last run I might mix it this time with promix! 50-50 might!


----------



## ImpulsiveGrower (Sep 3, 2022)

LordEnki said:


> wouldn't landscape fabric be a better alternative to paper towels?


Maybe it would be I’m not sure. The roots easily penetrate the paper towel and also keep the dirt from going into the resivoir. Just something quick and simple that I thought of last minute. Now I do it each time and it works great so I don’t see any reason to change as of yet. Try it out and report back


----------



## Smscreations (Sep 9, 2022)

Ladies are definitely rocking in the SIPs now!! 5 days between the pictures!


----------



## myke (Sep 11, 2022)

Some pics of my cherry sips. This strain grew much faster then last yrs.


----------



## myke (Sep 11, 2022)

Drinking empty in two days now.


----------



## myke (Sep 11, 2022)

All my other tomatoes in sips are done,being in direct sun they got burned up.Needed filling every day and ran out of food even though I was feeding salts once a week.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Sep 11, 2022)

myke said:


> All my other tomatoes in sips are done,being in direct sun they got burned up.Needed filling every day and ran out of food even though I was feeding salts once a week.


Sounds like they got too big. Lol


----------



## myke (Sep 11, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Sounds like they got too big. Lol


Not really,being in the sun node spacing was close together.Lots of tomatoes though.
Just didnt green up much,always yellow leaves at the bottom.Didnt feed heavy, around 1EC and calmag.Top fed about 2 litres every weekend.
Good think is I now have some empty sips


----------



## dank'd (Sep 11, 2022)

these are plastic bowls from canadian tire with polypropylene webbing. put a plant on top and it's watering


----------



## dr_professor (Sep 11, 2022)

dr_professor said:


> I built some SIP containers to give this method a try. I followed the instructions here: https://www.rollitup.org/t/sip-thread-sub-irrigated-planter.904886/post-13026343
> 
> Unfortunately, my pots aren't wicking and I have to drench from the top as usual. I deviated from the instructions a bit and wanted to get some feedback, hopefully it's an easy fix.
> 
> ...


An update on this, the plants are LOVING the sips now. I was able to fix my issue by filling up the res all the way AND wrapping the fabric pots with panda around the sides. Looks like this res will last~2 weeks in early flower. Thanks to those that gave suggestions and direction


----------



## GenericEnigma (Sep 11, 2022)

dank'd said:


> these are plastic bowls from canadian tire with polypropylene webbing. put a plant on top and it's watering
> 
> View attachment 5196298


Very nice. Many of my setups are straightforward and simple.

Is that purplish globe a cloning tool?


----------



## Billy the Mountain (Sep 11, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> Very nice. Many of my setups are straightforward and simple.
> 
> Is that purplish globe a cloning tool?


Air Layering method for cloning

Very cool

Fruit tree example:


----------



## dank'd (Sep 12, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> Very nice. Many of my setups are straightforward and simple.
> 
> Is that purplish globe a cloning tool?


it's actually clear plastic, it was my attempts at air layering. i bought a bunch of hinged plastic eggs from aliexpress

the wicking pots am so glad i eventually made these. in the flower tent i drape the same webbing strips over plant risers in saucers


----------



## GenericEnigma (Sep 12, 2022)

Well, friends, time to get started. 

All are clones from the best selection out of a JBC freebie Outdoor Mix. 

Running the same soil since it was still alive and most of the leaf mulch was broken down.

Got tired of keeping the soil surface moist, so I'm going with black plastic.

I'll shore them up with some EWC and 4-4-4 in a few weeks.


----------



## myke (Sep 12, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> Well, friends, time to get started.
> 
> All are clones from the best selection out of a JBC freebie Outdoor Mix.
> 
> ...


Im finding the black plastic works well,you can keep adding soil way above the edge too,kinda volcano ish.lol.


----------



## Tim Fox (Sep 19, 2022)

dank'd said:


> these are plastic bowls from canadian tire with polypropylene webbing. put a plant on top and it's watering
> 
> View attachment 5196298


looks awesome


----------



## dank'd (Sep 19, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> looks awesome


thanks. i am tempted to get some more of these bowls and put the water hole on top instead of the sides to make use of the whole bowl

in the flower tent, i put 5 gallon rizhopots on risers/saucers with wicks. it took about one week for the top of the soil to become wet and they have stayed wet ever since

if the soil in a pot is completely dry and it is placed on a wicking container the wicking won't start and the pot stays dry. but with moist soil np


----------



## GenericEnigma (Sep 25, 2022)

myke said:


> Im finding the black plastic works well,you can keep adding soil way above the edge too,kinda volcano ish.lol.


I just did this.

Scratched in 3/4 cup of 4-4-4 and 1/2 gallon of shredded, flowering alfalfa across the top of each planter. Then spread a gallon of compost across the top of each, packed them a bit, and covered them back up with plastic. Changed the light schedule to 12/12. 

Volcanoes! You're such a stoner.


----------



## Smscreations (Sep 29, 2022)

Just SIPing along. 6 days into my flip and things are running real smooth now. I stopped using LABs in the rezs and I believe I have corrected the issues I was having. Rezs have stayed fairly clean and got healthy white roots down in the water now. The roots looked like they were dying a little bit whenever they touched the water with my homemade LABs in it. Flushed the rezs out and changed with fresh water w/o LABs and plants really recovered quickly.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 2, 2022)

Round 3. No till(low till) earthbox.....




Note: tip burn happened prior to transplant and I've moved the light up because it looks like a lil stress up top. I'm waiting to see what comes of it. GDP from seed this time around.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 6, 2022)

Hey y'all, I've not grown this strain, nor have I experienced this deficiency before. Any guesses?


----------



## myke (Oct 7, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Hey y'all, I've not grown this strain, nor have I experienced this deficiency before. Any guesses?
> 
> View attachment 5208860


Check out smscreations thread above. He had the same look.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 7, 2022)

myke said:


> Check out smscreations thread above. He had the same look.


I feel like it's mg def., especially since I use ro water, but yea I'll check it out. I remember reading his post before, but I didn't know what the problem was.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 7, 2022)

myke said:


> Check out smscreations thread above. He had the same look.


I haven't used any labs though.


----------



## Smscreations (Oct 7, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I feel like it's mg def., especially since I use ro water, but yea I'll check it out. I remember reading his post before, but I didn't know what the problem was.


Honestly I'm not sure what my issue was either as I had quite a few things going wrong at once lol. My rezs were smelling like a fish tank, my humidity was too low for my Temps, and lights were too close. My soil seemed to be too hot initially as well. I have since got my temp and humidity stable and lined up with proper VPD, raised my lights, and stopped using LABs in my rezs. I also did some foliar epsom sprays all at the same time. I never decreased my amount of topdressings just stuck with Build a Soils recommended schedule and they pulled thru right before I switched to flower. They are doing wonderful now however.



This was at about 10 days from the flip and they exploded with growth.

The faint yellow between the veins looks like it may need a lil mag but ik no expert on deficiencies yet. What's your Temps/humidity and feeding like? What kinda water are you using to fill the rez?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 7, 2022)

Smscreations said:


> Honestly I'm not sure what my issue was either as I had quite a few things going wrong at once lol. My rezs were smelling like a fish tank, my humidity was too low for my Temps, and lights were too close. My soil seemed to be too hot initially as well. I have since got my temp and humidity stable and lined up with proper VPD, raised my lights, and stopped using LABs in my rezs. I also did some foliar epsom sprays all at the same time. I never decreased my amount of topdressings just stuck with Build a Soils recommended schedule and they pulled thru right before I switched to flower. They are doing wonderful now however.
> 
> View attachment 5209076View attachment 5209077
> 
> ...


Temps right now are ~77, humidity ~60%, I just transplanted a couple weeks ago into 3 round no till, haven't top dressed yet, and I use ro water in the res.


----------



## Smscreations (Oct 7, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Temps right now are ~77, humidity ~60%, I just transplanted a couple weeks ago into 3 round no till, haven't top dressed yet, and I use ro water in the res.


Okay cool VPD is pretty close to where it needs to be. Did you transplant into same soil as started in? Did you have the issues before you transplanted? With the use of RO water I'm leaning more towards needing at least an epsom foliar. What are you using for topdressing?


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 7, 2022)

Smscreations said:


> Okay cool VPD is pretty close to where it needs to be. Did you transplant into same soil as started in? Did you have the issues before you transplanted? With the use of RO water I'm leaning more towards needing at least an epsom foliar. What are you using for topdressing?


I start in happy frog. It hasn't given me a problem in the past. I thought I had tip burn from a ferment, but now I'm not thinking that was it. I've epsom foliar past 2 days. I use craft blend and ewc in veg and build a flower in flower.


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## Smscreations (Oct 7, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I start in happy frog. It hasn't given me a problem in the past. I thought I had tip burn from a ferment, but now I'm not thinking that was it. I've epsom foliar past 2 days. I use craft blend and ewc in veg and build a flower in flower.


Yea I start in happy frog as well. Past couple grows of being in living soil I've had tip burn during veg and I was just attributing that to my living soil being a little hot. As veg would go on and into flower, the tip burn would stop. I use the craft blend and buildaflower as well and havent had any issues with it so far. Hopefully the epsom foliar keeps the lightening of the leaves from progressing any further. Keep a watch on them and keep us updated!! Maybe somebody with a little more knowledge will chime in and add to my recommendations.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 7, 2022)

Smscreations said:


> Yea I start in happy frog as well. Past couple grows of being in living soil I've had tip burn during veg and I was just attributing that to my living soil being a little hot. As veg would go on and into flower, the tip burn would stop. I use the craft blend and buildaflower as well and havent had any issues with it so far. Hopefully the epsom foliar keeps the lightening of the leaves from progressing any further. Keep a watch on them and keep us updated!! Maybe somebody with a little more knowledge will chime in and add to my recommendations.


Good lookin out man.


----------



## raggyb (Oct 7, 2022)

I'm leaning a


Hollatchaboy said:


> Hey y'all, I've not grown this strain, nor have I experienced this deficiency before. Any guesses?
> 
> View attachment 5208860


little more towards Ca def.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 8, 2022)

raggyb said:


> I'm leaning a
> 
> little more towards Ca def.


Thanks for the reply. Ca def. Should be a easy fix. I'll use a lil tap water on some of my res refills. Thanks again!


----------



## 1ManGrow (Oct 10, 2022)

Cannarado UBER - 16 days (12/12)

Think I went a little too hard on pruning.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 12, 2022)

She seems to be going good now. I know veg pics are boring, but I can't help myself. Lol


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## Jcue81 (Oct 13, 2022)

What’s the pro move for a fungus gnat infestation in a SIP? My top layer of soil is pretty dry. Should I remove the mulch cover to let it dry out more? Aim a fan at the soil surface?

ive seen people suggest malted barley, but I have no idea how that would work.

also considering removing the top 1.5” of soil and replacing with fresh casting

also considering really taping the top shut. Do the adults NEED to leave the soil? Like, if I prevent them from coming and going would that help?

I have microbelift I could add to my water in the res, but not sure if that bacteria can move through the whole soil profile up to the top.

trying not to drop $40 on nematodes, but I will if needed

thanks guys


----------



## GenericEnigma (Oct 13, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> What’s the pro move for a fungus gnat infestation in a SIP? My top layer of soil is pretty dry. Should I remove the mulch cover to let it dry out more? Aim a fan at the soil surface?
> 
> ive seen people suggest malted barley, but I have no idea how that would work.
> 
> ...


I use a multi-pronged approach.

I use EWC to keep hypoapsis miles in my pots. I cover the soil with plastic (for moisture retention and gnat discouragement). I kill the gnats manually when I see them. *And if they get out of hand, I use BTi (Mosquito Bits). *Lots of us use yellow sticky traps as well.

I have found it impossible to be rid of all fungus gnats. But I can keep it down to a few fliers with this method (and having some around keeps my hypoapsis miles going).


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 13, 2022)

If I have an infestation, I use a cup with a lil apple cider vinegar, with a few drops of dish soap mixed in. Seems to do a good job of attracting the fliers.


----------



## Jcue81 (Oct 13, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> I use a multi-pronged approach.
> 
> I use EWC to keep hypoapsis miles in my pots. I cover the soil with plastic (for moisture retention and gnat discouragement). I kill the gnats manually when I see them. *And if they get out of hand, I use BTi (Mosquito Bits). *Lots of us use yellow sticky traps as well.
> 
> I have found it impossible to be rid of all fungus gnats. But I can keep it down to a few fliers with this method (and having some around keeps my hypoapsis miles going).


I have the microbe lift which is BTI. Wondering if it does any good in the reservoir though or if it would need to be top watered in. I’d rather not top water anything and let the surface totally dry out.


----------



## GenericEnigma (Oct 13, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> I have the microbe lift which is BTI. Wondering if it does any good in the reservoir though or if it would need to be top watered in. I’d rather not top water anything and let the surface totally dry out.


I would top-water it in myself. Since the bacteria has to contact the grubs, and most gnats lay eggs in the top of the soil, that should do the most damage. It might take more than one treatment. This approach has gotten the problem back under control for me. I think gnats just crawl in from the top to where the soil is wet anyway. It would take something like sand or DE to block that gnat egress, I think.

I haven't tried putting BTi in the reservoir. It might work. I tend to keep my reservoir free of anything other than tap water, and Bits has worked top-watering.

Keep us posted, regardless of what you end up doing.


----------



## Jcue81 (Oct 13, 2022)

Wondering if securing the plastic with some tape to keep them from coming and going would help. Can they complete their whole life cycle under the plastic mulch cover?


----------



## GenericEnigma (Oct 13, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Wondering if securing the plastic with some tape to keep them from coming and going would help. Can they complete their whole life cycle under the plastic mulch cover?


Might help some. I have mine fastened down with clothes pins (for quick/clean removal, and as anchors for LST).

I think gnats can still live and lay eggs down there. It's unclear to me what's truly going on. I see a flyer here and there. My miles are still around. I assume they are still part of the living cycle.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 13, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Wondering if securing the plastic with some tape to keep them from coming and going would help. Can they complete their whole life cycle under the plastic mulch cover?


I dunno about in your case, but I never have gnats in my flower tent with the earthbox. I'm guessing because of the cover being somewhat secured. My mom tent is another story, but if I don't get my soil too saturated, I only have a couple flyers, but as soon as I overwater..... infestation.


----------



## Jcue81 (Oct 13, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I dunno about in your case, but I never have gnats in my flower tent with the earthbox. I'm guessing because of the cover being somewhat secured. My mom tent is another story, but if I don't get my soil too saturated, I only have a couple flyers, but as soon as I overwater..... infestation.


Yeah that’s why I’m scratching my head. I’ve never had gnat issues in an earthbox. The top inch is pretty much completely dry. I may remove the top inch of soil and toss it and replace with an inch of fresh castings. Then secure the plastic top shut so there’s no sneaking in. Put some cheese cloth over the drainage hole.


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 13, 2022)

Jcue81 said:


> Yeah that’s why I’m scratching my head. I’ve never had gnat issues in an earthbox. The top inch is pretty much completely dry. I may remove the top inch of soil and toss it and replace with an inch of fresh castings. Then secure the plastic top shut so there’s no sneaking in. Put some cheese cloth over the drainage hole.


It's the only thing I can think of, unless I have so many predator mites, they don't stand a chance, but I never see flyers in my flower tent.


----------



## TheTerpinator (Oct 13, 2022)

Humanrob said:


> *Sub-irrigated planter*
> _From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia_
> 
> 
> ...


Love SIP! Just posting to say thanks, I didn't even know this was here.


----------



## Smscreations (Oct 13, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> It's the only thing I can think of, unless I have so many predator mites, they don't stand a chance, but I never see flyers in my flower tent.


I can second this. I've never had a gnat issue using Barley Straw Mulch or the plastic covers (which im using now being its easier to top dress in flower without all the straw) top dressing the other night I had a very healthy population of miles in all 3 SIPs.


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## Leeski (Oct 14, 2022)

I have been following this thread for a while, seen some great grows and info on sips - finally got round to a sip run which I have wanted to do for a while so far loving it plants have been in veg for 19 days …..


----------



## Nugnewbie (Oct 14, 2022)

Leeski said:


> I have been following this thread for a while, seen some great grows and info on sips - finally got round to a sip run which I have wanted to do for a while so far loving it plants have been in veg for 19 days ….. View attachment 5212444View attachment 5212445View attachment 5212446View attachment 5212447View attachment 5212448View attachment 5212449View attachment 5212450View attachment 5212451View attachment 5212454


Beautiful roots!


----------



## CrunchBerries (Oct 17, 2022)

Leeski said:


> I have been following this thread for a while, seen some great grows and info on sips - finally got round to a sip run which I have wanted to do for a while so far loving it plants have been in veg for 19 days ….. View attachment 5212444View attachment 5212445View attachment 5212446View attachment 5212447View attachment 5212448View attachment 5212449View attachment 5212450View attachment 5212451View attachment 5212454


I like those SIPs! What the rez and soil capacity?


----------



## Leeski (Oct 17, 2022)

There 65ltrs and reservoirs are 10ltrs pretty much identical dimensions to an earthbox ….


----------



## CrunchBerries (Oct 17, 2022)

Leeski said:


> There 65ltrs and reservoirs are 10ltrs pretty much identical dimensions to an earthbox ….


Thank you @Leeski im curious if we can get them in the States? Gardens looking super healthy!!


----------



## weedstoner420 (Oct 17, 2022)

CrunchBerries said:


> Thank you @Leeski im curious if we can get them in the States? Gardens looking super healthy!!


I've been using these for a few years: https://www.agardenpatch.com/

Similar dimensions to earthbox as well. I went with them mostly because of the reservoir fill/overflow design. You can see the water level while you're filling it, whereas with the earthbox it looks like you just wait for it to overflow, which could be kinda awkward in a tent...the one @Leeski has also seems like a nice design in that regard.
@Hollatchaboy you use an earthbox right? How do you deal with overflow and checking the water level?


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 17, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> I've been using these for a few years: https://www.agardenpatch.com/
> 
> Similar dimensions to earthbox as well. I went with them mostly because of the reservoir fill/overflow design. You can see the water level while you're filling it, whereas with the earthbox it looks like you just wait for it to overflow, which could be kinda awkward in a tent...the one @Leeski has also seems like a nice design in that regard.
> @Hollatchaboy you use an earthbox right? How do you deal with overflow and checking the water level?


Like this....



Lol


----------



## weedstoner420 (Oct 17, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Like this....
> 
> View attachment 5213721
> 
> Lol


Dang that was easy


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 17, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Dang that was easy


Fo sho...k.i.s.s..... lol


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 17, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Dang that was easy


To be honest though, I use my can sprayer to fill it. My res holds ~ 2 1/4 gallons, so I just fill my can to 2 gallons, and spray into the res. I worry about washing out my wicks, if I just pour the water in.


----------



## Smscreations (Oct 17, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> To be honest though, I use my can sprayer to fill it. My res holds ~ 2 1/4 gallons, so I just fill my can to 2 gallons, and spray into the res. I worry about washing out my wicks, if I just pour the water in.
> 
> View attachment 5213815


I washed my wicks out right in the beginning of using my SIPs...was not fun trying to repack the wicks from the bottom of the tote lol. Now I just pour my water in very slowly without a whole lot of splashing in the rez


----------



## Hollatchaboy (Oct 17, 2022)

Smscreations said:


> I washed my wicks out right in the beginning of using my SIPs...was not fun trying to repack the wicks from the bottom of the tote lol. Now I just pour my water in very slowly without a whole lot of splashing in the rez


I have soil in my res, not sure if some wick washed out, or if it's just dropping through the holes in the deck. Lol


----------



## Smscreations (Oct 17, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> I have soil in my res, not sure if some wick washed out, or if it's just dropping through the holes in the deck. Lol


I can't tell from the pics, but your container doesn't separate does it? I was able to lift my soil tote out of the rez to work on the wicks. If yours don't separate I'm not even sure how you'd go about checking to make sure your wicks are packed still.


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## GenericEnigma (Oct 17, 2022)

Smscreations said:


> I can't tell from the pics, but your container doesn't separate does it? I was able to lift my soil tote out of the rez to work on the wicks. If yours don't separate I'm not even sure how you'd go about checking to make sure your wicks are packed still.


I didn't realize this could be an issue for you basket wickers. Can your fill pipe rest on the bottom of the reservoir, then holes drilled in its sides - so water force is buffered when filling?

I hope being called "basket wicker" is okay.


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## Smscreations (Oct 17, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> I didn't realize this could be an issue for you basket wickers. Can your fill pipe rest on the bottom of the reservoir, then holes drilled in its sides - so water force is buffered when filling?
> 
> I hope being called "basket wicker" is okay.


Lol, it's fine by me. 



Mine has a few net cups stitched together with zip ties to accommodate a deeper Rez. First time I filled em up with water, I guess my wicks weren't packed tight enough and the turbulent splashing washed the entire bottom half of the wicks out. After drinking about a 1/2gallon of water, the water level stayed the same for a couple days and that's when I lifted the totes and saw what had happened. I've got an angled cut on my fill pipe and I just twisted it until the angled portion allowed the water to splash into the wall of the tote instead of towards the wicks


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## weedstoner420 (Oct 17, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> To be honest though, I use my can sprayer to fill it. My res holds ~ 2 1/4 gallons, so I just fill my can to 2 gallons, and spray into the res. I worry about washing out my wicks, if I just pour the water in.
> 
> View attachment 5213815


That's interesting. I also get soil in my res every run, but never enough that I worry about it, and the soil seems to stay moist. It's all very fine particles that end up in the water, so I assume it's either falling through the top or dissolving in the water just sitting there. I do fill my res when it's about 2/3 empty, maybe if it let it dry out all the way I would get more washing out. I also pack the wicks super tight...


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 17, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> That's interesting. I also get soil in my res every run, but never enough that I worry about it, and the soil seems to stay moist. It's all very fine particles that end up in the water, so I assume it's either falling through the top or dissolving in the water just sitting there. I do fill my res when it's about 2/3 empty, maybe if it let it dry out all the way I would get more washing out. I also pack the wicks super tight...


As soon as I can't see water in my res, I add more. I let it soak up fully before adding, so I don't leave any stagnant in it.


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## CWF (Oct 17, 2022)

I'm also in the fill 'em when dry camp. With a big plant that is raging, that is every 2-3 days. (Earthbox)


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## Smscreations (Oct 17, 2022)

Revisiting an old topic concerning weak or thin stems on these rapidly growing plants, are people still experiencing this? I mainlined all 3 of mine and though all my mains are sturdy branches, I've noticed a lot of the side branching off these is very long and spindly. 3 different Strains and all exhibit this.


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## misterlaxx (Oct 18, 2022)

Mainly wanted to ask, will 27 Gall tote be sufficient for 2 plants?

Hello Sippers..I bought 50Ft of 4" Corregated Perf'd Piping and 3 27Gallon HDX totes, and I have like ....70 Gallons of Nutrient Rich Soil, as well as Perlite/Cocoa Coir/a little spaghnum peat moss left, I think I'll be amending with these for aeration/acidity(Spag/but not sure Coco coir does a ph good)..but also planning on using Fir Bark chunks as aeration as well, I think for the bottom, I'll be putting the lid cut out as a barrier/with either 1 or 2 Sip Wells that will submerge into the lid/pipe after cutting a place for them...I don't know though if I should do a walmart bag (poor mans .50 C smart pot) as a wicking well material to drop in the wicking well holes (1 or 2 wicking hole points?) or if I should use PVC perferated on top and bottom, and let the water wick up the narrow tube channel before getting dispersed into the soil...just trying to nail it so as to not saturate the fuck out of the soil...

Also, wanted to pick the threads brain for the BEST wicking well material, I'm thinking of going with Perlite combined with Lava Rocks (I hear Perlite wicks to efficient/fast), I've also heard Sand works well, I also see MYKE's pics and it looks like Soil itself is a great wicking medium..I dunno..I also wanted to know if I should buffer the bottom of the bin with sand or lava rock instead of pouring the soil mix directly atop the barrier...and I'm also thinking of using tarp or garden material to use as a barrier


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## weedstoner420 (Oct 18, 2022)

misterlaxx said:


> Mainly wanted to ask, will 27 Gall tote be sufficient for 2 plants?
> 
> Hello Sippers..I bought 50Ft of 4" Corregated Perf'd Piping and 3 27Gallon HDX totes, and I have like ....70 Gallons of Nutrient Rich Soil, as well as Perlite/Cocoa Coir/a little spaghnum peat moss left, I think I'll be amending with these for aeration/acidity(Spag/but not sure Coco coir does a ph good)..but also planning on using Fir Bark chunks as aeration as well, I think for the bottom, I'll be putting the lid cut out as a barrier/with either 1 or 2 Sip Wells that will submerge into the lid/pipe after cutting a place for them...I don't know though if I should do a walmart bag (poor mans .50 C smart pot) as a wicking well material to drop in the wicking well holes (1 or 2 wicking hole points?) or if I should use PVC perferated on top and bottom, and let the water wick up the narrow tube channel before getting dispersed into the soil...just trying to nail it so as to not saturate the fuck out of the soil...
> 
> Also, wanted to pick the threads brain for the BEST wicking well material, I'm thinking of going with Perlite combined with Lava Rocks (I hear Perlite wicks to efficient/fast), I've also heard Sand works well, I also see MYKE's pics and it looks like Soil itself is a great wicking medium..I dunno..I also wanted to know if I should buffer the bottom of the bin with sand or lava rock instead of pouring the soil mix directly atop the barrier...and I'm also thinking of using tarp or garden material to use as a barrier


27 gallons should be plenty for 2 plants. Lots of folks, myself included, have done 2 or 3 in an earthbox-sized SIP (~11 gallons of soil), it mostly depends on how long you veg for. When I've done 2 in one box I've only given them 2-3 weeks of veg time from rooted clones.

I pack the wicks with regular bagged potting mix, which is actually more peat/less aeration than my main soil mix. I pack them quite tight, too. I have heard some people say to use all or mostly perlite, and some people say to use straight peat, and there are probably other factors at play like wick size and how tightly they are packed that contribute to success with one method or another...

I use window screen as a barrier at the bottom of the tray. Some soil does fall through but it's never been enough to concern me.

Good luck!


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## misterlaxx (Oct 18, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> 27 gallons should be plenty for 2 plants. Lots of folks, myself included, have done 2 or 3 in an earthbox-sized SIP (~11 gallons of soil), it mostly depends on how long you veg for. When I've done 2 in one box I've only given them 2-3 weeks of veg time from rooted clones.
> 
> I pack the wicks with regular bagged potting mix, which is actually more peat/less aeration than my main soil mix. I pack them quite tight, too. I have heard some people say to use all or mostly perlite, and some people say to use straight peat, and there are probably other factors at play like wick size and how tightly they are packed that contribute to success with one method or another...
> 
> ...


thank you dude, yeah, my veg's in summer usually make me wanna kill myself...but winter time, Veg is like clockwork..it's coming around where I live so should be better growth, and yeah I love sub- irrigation in a simple drip tray from home depot for a washer/dryer..but these seem like monsters can be grown in them for a month n a half (I'm hoping), with greasy results..

I'll probably opt for something similar and go 2 a 27 tote...kinda wanna figure out the Res > Control bucket with 3" water and float switch > to I think 3 Totes Max what the tutorial rec'd..but I might be mistaken, could be 6


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## weedstoner420 (Oct 18, 2022)

misterlaxx said:


> thank you dude, yeah, my veg's in summer usually make me wanna kill myself...but winter time, Veg is like clockwork..it's coming around where I live so should be better growth, and yeah I love sub- irrigation in a simple drip tray from home depot for a washer/dryer..but these seem like monsters can be grown in them for a month n a half (I'm hoping), with greasy results..
> 
> I'll probably opt for something similar and go 2 a 27 tote...kinda wanna figure out the Res > Control bucket with 3" water and float switch > to I think 3 Totes Max what the tutorial rec'd..but I might be mistaken, could be 6


I've been sticking with only growing in winter as well, summer is just too hot and humid to grow indoors, at least without investing more than I would like to in climate control. I'm about to load my SIPs back up in a couple weeks here...


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## misterlaxx (Oct 18, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> I've been sticking with only growing in winter as well, summer is just too hot and humid to grow indoors, at least without investing more than I would like to in climate control. I'm about to load my SIPs back up in a couple weeks here...


I have my seeds started, and totally agree...just not worth it in summer unless you have land and can bury a shipping container


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## misterlaxx (Oct 19, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> 27 gallons should be plenty for 2 plants. Lots of folks, myself included, have done 2 or 3 in an earthbox-sized SIP (~11 gallons of soil), it mostly depends on how long you veg for. When I've done 2 in one box I've only given them 2-3 weeks of veg time from rooted clones.
> 
> I pack the wicks with regular bagged potting mix, which is actually more peat/less aeration than my main soil mix. I pack them quite tight, too. I have heard some people say to use all or mostly perlite, and some people say to use straight peat, and there are probably other factors at play like wick size and how tightly they are packed that contribute to success with one method or another...
> 
> ...


wanna pick your brain a bit, what's your soil mix? I'm in Organic..I took Alfalfa Horse Feed Cubes and peed in my 55 gall and threw comfrey tea all over, have added mineral dust/kelp/gypsum/lyme/humic granuals, tomatoe mix, that bio alive (DTE products), I wanna try Rice Bran Powder and I need to get some oyster shell..but I've put the malted barley from Coots Mix in the past, but I feel like it should be added like a month to cook before breaking the soil up because of that white almost mycillic fungus it creates..but..I've put neem in there..I feel like I have enough in my soil, but I guess I'm thinking aloud...I'll probably cut it 60/40 or maybe 50/50 to cut in Bark Pieces for more aeration, so 50% Soil to 15 percent perlite 15percent fir bark chunks, and 20 percent peat or cocoa


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## weedstoner420 (Oct 19, 2022)

misterlaxx said:


> wanna pick your brain a bit, what's your soil mix? I'm in Organic..I took Alfalfa Horse Feed Cubes and peed in my 55 gall and threw comfrey tea all over, have added mineral dust/kelp/gypsum/lyme/humic granuals, tomatoe mix, that bio alive (DTE products), I wanna try Rice Bran Powder and I need to get some oyster shell..but I've put the malted barley from Coots Mix in the past, but I feel like it should be added like a month to cook before breaking the soil up because of that white almost mycillic fungus it creates..but..I've put neem in there..I feel like I have enough in my soil, but I guess I'm thinking aloud...I'll probably cut it 60/40 or maybe 50/50 to cut in Bark Pieces for more aeration, so 50% Soil to 15 percent perlite 15percent fir bark chunks, and 20 percent peat or cocoa


Dang that sounds like a pretty awesome mix you've got going there

I use two Growboxes in a 3x3 tent (1.5 cu ft each/roughly same as an earthbox). I don't recall what my original mix was, probably something like equal parts compost, perlite, and store-bought potting mix, and I think I amended it with oyster shell flour, kelp meal, and some all-in-one dry fertilizer blend.

I've been recycling it for several runs, and in between I dump both boxes out and add:
- 4 cups KiS Organics Nutrient Pack
- 2 cups Espoma Tomato-Tone (because the KiS seems a bit light on K and Ca)
- 1 gallon perlite
- 1 galllon worm castings (store-bought)
So each Growbox gets about half of that added to it between runs.

I will occasionally top-dress with smaller amounts of those same amendments (minus the perlite).

I try to keep it low-effort, and I prefer the dry fert blends over individual meals/flours/etc. One area I could definitely improve on is the bio-activity, at least the stuff you can actually see moving. Not many worms or hypoaspis when I went to fill the boxes this round. Maybe I will just buy some, or amend with compost from the backyard, which has tons of critters moving about, but I have been reluctant to use for fear of bringing pests indoors...


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## misterlaxx (Oct 19, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> Dang that sounds like a pretty awesome mix you've got going there
> 
> I use two Growboxes in a 3x3 tent (1.5 cu ft each/roughly same as an earthbox). I don't recall what my original mix was, probably something like equal parts compost, perlite, and store-bought potting mix, and I think I amended it with oyster shell flour, kelp meal, and some all-in-one dry fertilizer blend.
> 
> ...


I'm blessed to live in a city where pests aren't an issue I've encountered so far (knock on wood), but that's a great mix too, when your feeding, did you set up automation ? Or just a makeshift outside clear tube you can measure the levels with ? Really gonna go for that float switch and try to top water every once in a while according to top soil moisture levels


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## weedstoner420 (Oct 19, 2022)

misterlaxx said:


> I'm blessed to live in a city where pests aren't an issue I've encountered so far (knock on wood), but that's a great mix too, when your feeding, did you set up automation ? Or just a makeshift outside clear tube you can measure the levels with ? Really gonna go for that float switch and try to top water every once in a while according to top soil moisture levels


https://www.agardenpatch.com/ this is the one I use. There's a hole in one side that you add water through, and you can see the water level inside.

Different folks have different watering habits it seems, some people let them go dry before refilling, I honestly do not notice a difference in soil moisture when the reservoir is full vs nearly empty, so I just top them off every few 2-3 days, or whenever they get below half full.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 19, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> https://www.agardenpatch.com/ this is the one I use. There's a hole in one side that you add water through, and you can see the water level inside.
> 
> Different folks have different watering habits it seems, some people let them go dry before refilling, I honestly do not notice a difference in soil moisture when the reservoir is full vs nearly empty, so I just top them off every few 2-3 days, or whenever they get below half full.


And you most likely won't see a difference, until you get a batch of anaerobic bacteria from stagnant water. I believe that's the reasoning for letting the res go dry before refilling.


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## weedstoner420 (Oct 19, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> And you most likely won't see a difference, until you get a batch of anaerobic bacteria from stagnant water. I believe that's the reasoning for letting the res go dry before refilling.


I've heard that can happen but it has yet to happen to me, as far as I know (knock on wood). My res has never smelled bad at least, not sure how else I would know anything was up, or what the effects would be...


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 19, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> I've heard that can happen but it has yet to happen to me, as far as I know (knock on wood). My res has never smelled bad at least, not sure how else I would know anything was up, or what the effects would be...


Yea it would be hard to determine its anaerobic until it's creating a problem. Odds are it might not do anything, but I'm not willing to risk it. Mine never goes more than maybe half a day empty though.


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## misterlaxx (Oct 20, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Yea it would be hard to determine its anaerobic until it's creating a problem. Odds are it might not do anything, but I'm not willing to risk it. Mine never goes more than maybe half a day empty though.


you know..another thought I had...

Would you say having 1 large like say 1 gallon plastic pot with additional perferations filled with wicking material like peat and vermiculite be efficient at dispersing moisture or would rather 2 points of wicking that were smaller like the size of a 3 inch net pot be more efficient at moisture dispersal/coverage?


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 20, 2022)

misterlaxx said:


> you know..another thought I had...
> 
> Would you say having 1 large like say 1 gallon plastic pot with additional perferations filled with wicking material like peat and vermiculite be efficient at dispersing moisture or would rather 2 points of wicking that were smaller like the size of a 3 inch net pot be more efficient at moisture dispersal/coverage?


It's kinda hard to say. You'd have to experiment a lil with both sizes to get it right.


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## misterlaxx (Oct 20, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> It's kinda hard to say. You'd have to experiment a lil with both sizes to get it right.


You sob, I CAME HERE FOR ANSWERS, NOT OBLIVIOUS REPLIES !!!


jk....yeh, I will n e way, but if there is a soul on the thread who has the knowledge...filleth my cup pleaseth


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 20, 2022)

misterlaxx said:


> You sob, I CAME HERE FOR ANSWERS, NOT OBLIVIOUS REPLIES !!!
> 
> 
> jk....yeh, I will n e way, but if there is a soul on the thread who has the knowledge...filleth my cup pleaseth


I mean there's a few factors involved. Container dimensions, soil volume, soil consistency. It's not that cut and dry, imo. Excuse my ignorance though. I was trying to be a helpful as I could.


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## misterlaxx (Oct 20, 2022)

Oh I'm just fucking around, but yeah a 27 gal with 2 plants and a 4 in corrugated pipe bottom with possibly a cloth barrier and a hole in the middling pipe to wick or two wicks spaced under each plant into said pipe


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 20, 2022)

misterlaxx said:


> Oh I'm just fucking around, but yeah a 27 gal with 2 plants and a 4 in corrugated pipe bottom with possibly a cloth barrier and a hole in the middling pipe to wick or two wicks spaced under each plant into said pipe


If it were me, I'd go with the 2 wicks, for 2 reasons. First, this way i know I'm getting water to both sides, second, if one washes out, i'd still have one at least.
I do no till, so I haven't removed the soil, yet, but I'm thinking that some of my wicks may have washed out. Not totally, but I'm sure the worms going in and out of the wicks, has loosened the soil. After this run, I think I'm going to start over.


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## myke (Oct 21, 2022)

Well it’s time to chop. She looks ready lol. I had some fall down last week. Little tomatoes everywhere. Last year made it too Oct 7 so 2 weeks later this year.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 21, 2022)

myke said:


> Well it’s time to chop. She looks ready lol. I had some fall down last week. Little tomatoes everywhere. Last year made it too Oct 7 so 2 weeks later this year. View attachment 5215808View attachment 5215809View attachment 5215810View attachment 5215812


Damn, monster plants bro!


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## myke (Oct 21, 2022)

I didn't top dress much this year,as you can see they ran out of food a good 6 weeks ago.
Ill dump and re amend next spring like I did this year.Gives them about a month to cook.

Maybe grow something different next yr,something with flowers perhaps.No not weed lol.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 21, 2022)

myke said:


> I didn't top dress much this year,as you can see they ran out of food a good 6 weeks ago.
> Ill dump and re amend next spring like I did this year.Gives them about a month to cook.
> 
> Maybe grow something different next yr,something with flowers perhaps.No not weed lol.


Why, what's wrong with weed?


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## myke (Oct 21, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> Why, what's wrong with weed?


Can you imagine the smell lol,I dont think they would finish in time.Suppose to freeze this weekend.


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## Hollatchaboy (Oct 21, 2022)

myke said:


> Can you imagine the smell lol,I dont think they would finish in time.Suppose to freeze this weekend.


I'm just kidding lol. Yea I suppose the smell would be quite..... potent. I'm pretty sure I've seen frosted car windows, and roofs of houses here already, so I'd imagine it's colder there.


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## misterlaxx (Oct 22, 2022)

myke said:


> I didn't top dress much this year,as you can see they ran out of food a good 6 weeks ago.
> Ill dump and re amend next spring like I did this year.Gives them about a month to cook.
> 
> Maybe grow something different next yr,something with flowers perhaps.No not weed lol.


Mike when you top dress and reimmend are you thinking like more sphagnum peat moss for the acidity for the next run or are you just thinking get all those nutrients micro macro back into the soil.. Do you use pumice or lava or rice Hulls ?perlite? And if so what ratios? Fresh compost?


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## myke (Oct 22, 2022)

misterlaxx said:


> Mike when you top dress and reimmend are you thinking like more sphagnum peat moss for the acidity for the next run or are you just thinking get all those nutrients micro macro back into the soil.. Do you use pumice or lava or rice Hulls ?perlite? And if so what ratios? Fresh compost?


Usually some compost perlite and dry food Gaia.Dolo lime and Ewc also.
A cup of food per 5-7g soil,compost,ewc is eyeballed.Say 3-5g per 27g sip.


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## misterlaxx (Oct 22, 2022)

myke said:


> Usually some compost perlite and dry food Gaia.Dolo lime and Ewc also.
> A cup of food per 5-7g soil,compost,ewc is eyeballed.Say 3-5g per 27g sip.


That's awesome info thank you very much Michael


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## GenericEnigma (Oct 24, 2022)

SIP stretch:

Sun, Sept. 25: Week 1, Day of Top & Flip.
Sun, Oct. 2: Week 2
Sun, Oct. 9: Week 3
Sun, Oct. 16: Week 4, Stretch Concluded
Sun, Oct. 23: Week 5


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## Smscreations (Oct 25, 2022)

1 month from the flip and 2.5 weeks into flower. Roots growing thru the topsoil after every topdressing. Girls are drinking about 1.5 gallons every day and half to 2 days now.
Still only topdressing with some Build-a-flower and Kashi Blend. Straight tap water in the rezs.


Cheers!


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## GrassBurner (Oct 31, 2022)

Whatup Sippers  Been a while, but I'm still sippin  Got 8 of my 2 gallon sips going, plants are doing great. Got another grow going with Promix in some 2 gallon plastic bags, boy they make me work  After this, I shall not stray. Hope everyone is doing well!!


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## misterlaxx (Oct 31, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> Whatup Sippers  Been a while, but I'm still sippin  Got 8 of my 2 gallon sips going, plants are doing great. Got another grow going with Promix in some 2 gallon plastic bags, boy they make me work  After this, I shall not stray. Hope everyone is doing well!!


Pictures power me


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## weedstoner420 (Nov 2, 2022)

The time has arrived

I'm going with a plastic mulch this time, just some leftover panda film. Keeps it decently moist on top.


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## 1ManGrow (Nov 2, 2022)

Update: Day 32 since sex showed. 

Cannarado Uber


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 2, 2022)

sounds like deep watering but different. interesting


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## GrassBurner (Nov 2, 2022)

misterlaxx said:


> Pictures power me


And Johnny law  I'll get some pictures up soon of my jungles. As usual I'm too busy to care for sea monkeys, much less plants


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## misterlaxx (Nov 2, 2022)

GrassBurner said:


> And Johnny law  I'll get some pictures up soon of my jungles. As usual I'm too busy to care for sea monkeys, much less plants


I appreciate it sir and or ma'am!


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## misterlaxx (Nov 12, 2022)

In the works

Got 2 almost ready...gonna step drill the drain hole about 3 inch from bottom (4 in corrugated and a spacer from the lidshluld be a good air gap, and I'm gonna also make a bottom hole for the bulkhead pictured and some clear tubing...if anyone disagrees with that. Happy to be corrected if the usual design doesn't include two holes for water level and or drain...I think when I've seen perrevious examples I've conflated the two and confused myself


My soil is well cooked and just been sitting. And I've added horse alalpha cubes in the past..as well as other amendments...but I have a good amount of homemade verm, and will be mixing that all with sphagnum and perlite...I'm considering buying mulch chips top for further aeration..but may be over kill. Just don't want extra pests fr the store...i.might try to gas them out with literal gas in a cup with the mulch air tight in a bag for a bit...should in theory kill em I suppose


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## nymphdown (Dec 17, 2022)

myke said:


> Usually some compost perlite and dry food Gaia.Dolo lime and Ewc also.
> A cup of food per 5-7g soil,compost,ewc is eyeballed.Say 3-5g per 27g sip.


Myke, what is estimated weight of your top 27 gallon tote once moist? Not sure my old, broken down, back can handle the weight. Thanks


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## weednerd.anthony.850 (Dec 17, 2022)

nymphdown said:


> Myke, what is estimated weight of your top 27 gallon tote once moist? Not sure my old, broken down, back can handle the weight. Thanks


I hear you on that I’m in the same boat with injuries all over, so I can’t lift near as much weight as previously, but I love the idea of SIPs 

I just hope maybe I’ll get my setup organized, so I can work around them easier, or maybe find a way to move them easily in and out of my grow space to check plants and all..

Still hand watering in my grow for now, but I will be following a DIY method to build a few SIPs for next run to test out so I’ll let y’all know how it works out when the time comes.. 

Happy Growing Everyone…


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## misterlaxx (Dec 17, 2022)

weednerd.anthony.850 said:


> I hear you on that I’m in the same boat with injuries all over, so I can’t lift near as much weight as previously, but I love the idea of SIPs
> 
> I just hope maybe I’ll get my setup organized, so I can work around them easier, or maybe find a way to move them easily in and out of my grow space to check plants and all..
> 
> ...


HOME DEPOT ROLLERS ON SOME 2X4 FRAMES MADE BY WOOD SCREWS


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## Hollatchaboy (Dec 17, 2022)




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## misterlaxx (Dec 17, 2022)

Hollatchaboy said:


> View attachment 5239005




14 bucks harbor freight


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## GenericEnigma (Dec 17, 2022)

GenericEnigma said:


> SIP stretch:
> 
> Sun, Sept. 25: Week 1, Day of Top & Flip.
> Sun, Oct. 2: Week 2
> ...


14.6 oz., smooth, clean body stone. Delicious.

Living soil SIPS forever.


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## Tim Fox (Dec 18, 2022)

weednerd.anthony.850 said:


> I hear you on that I’m in the same boat with injuries all over, so I can’t lift near as much weight as previously, but I love the idea of SIPs
> 
> I just hope maybe I’ll get my setup organized, so I can work around them easier, or maybe find a way to move them easily in and out of my grow space to check plants and all..
> 
> ...


im not indoor growing this winter because of health issues namely my right knee, i cant lift anything,,, i do have a harbor freight flat 4 wheel dolley with a handle i usually use for rolling my sip to the grow room and back,, but i cant even operate that this winter,,,, i hope your health issues get better


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## Hook Daddy (Dec 18, 2022)

misterlaxx said:


> View attachment 5239008
> 
> 14 bucks harbor freight


That’s funny, I just bought mine last week. I got my 17 gallon totes on rollers and the 2.5’ x 2.5’ scrog screen attached to pvc pipe mounted to the totes. An additional trellis net can easily be added just swapping the pvc tees for crosses and adding another net. They wheel around as one piece each. Will find out how they work next grow. Even made the pvc look like bamboo just for fun. Here’s a pic of one during building.


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## Nugnewbie (Dec 18, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> im not indoor growing this winter because of health issues namely my right knee, i cant lift anything,,, i do have a harbor freight flat 4 wheel dolley with a handle i usually use for rolling my sip to the grow room and back,, but i cant even operate that this winter,,,, i hope your health issues get better


Sorry to hear about your knee Tim. I seem to remember reading in your previous posts that you had lots of "help" to smoke your bud no? Maybe you could convince the "helpers" to roll your SIPS into position for you? Just a thought.


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## myke (Dec 18, 2022)

nymphdown said:


> Myke, what is estimated weight of your top 27 gallon tote once moist? Not sure my old, broken down, back can handle the weight. Thanks


Soil is moved in buckets 3-4g at a time,once in place they dont move much.Couldnt even guess what they weigh.A lot is a good number,ha.


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## nymphdown (Dec 18, 2022)

myke said:


> Soil is moved in buckets 3-4g at a time,once in place they dont move much.Couldnt even guess what they weigh.A lot is a good number,ha.


I made a 4' lazy susan to access them once in tent, but limited room (2') to access tent. Added 3/4" galvanized floor flanges to attach scrog frame to. Think I'll scale down to 17 or 14 gallon totes. Thanks again


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## nymphdown (Dec 18, 2022)

nymphdown said:


> I made a 4' lazy susan to access them once in tent, but limited room (2') to access tent. Added 3/4" galvanized floor flanges to attach scrog frame to. Think I'll scale down to 17 or 14 gallon totes. Thanks again


And, your air exchange holes 1/4" (6mm), 5/16" (8mm), 3/8 (10mm) or larger?


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## weednerd.anthony.850 (Dec 18, 2022)

Tim Fox said:


> im not indoor growing this winter because of health issues namely my right knee, i cant lift anything,,, i do have a harbor freight flat 4 wheel dolley with a handle i usually use for rolling my sip to the grow room and back,, but i cant even operate that this winter,,,, i hope your health issues get better


Thanks I appreciate the good wishes @Tim Fox and I hope you get to growing indoors again as soon as possible brother


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 27, 2022)

Hello all you new and old SIPers! getting back into the swing and wondering.... has anyone used earthboxes or SIPs for Mom plants specifically? Curious if they get out of control. Thanks all and happy holidaze!


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## weedstoner420 (Dec 27, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Hello all you new and old SIPers! getting back into the swing and wondering.... has anyone used earthboxes or SIPs for Mom plants specifically? Curious if they get out of control. Thanks all and happy holidaze!


I have not, but I would guess in an earthbox (~11 gallons of soil) they get out of control pretty quick, depending on how many clones you need and your definition of "out of control."

I like to flower in the bigger SIPs, but I've found maintaining moms is easy enough in smaller containers. I use 4" square nursery pots and could probably get a half dozen good clones per month if I wanted, but most of my cuttings go in the compost as it is...


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## myke (Dec 27, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Hello all you new and old SIPers! getting back into the swing and wondering.... has anyone used earthboxes or SIPs for Mom plants specifically? Curious if they get out of control. Thanks all and happy holidaze!


Yes I had plants for months in sips.like 4 Trimmed back several times. Eventually I flipped them into flower. Ran out of food so they’re now on a steady diet of fish and calmag. Stems are huge and can only imagine how much roots are in there. They don’t look as good as my other runs but wth. Got some clones now and will start again once these finish.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 27, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> I have not, but I would guess in an earthbox (~11 gallons of soil) they get out of control pretty quick, depending on how many clones you need and your definition of "out of control."
> 
> I like to flower in the bigger SIPs, but I've found maintaining moms is easy enough in smaller containers. I use 4" square nursery pots and could probably get a half dozen good clones per month if I wanted, but most of my cuttings go in the compost as it is...


Yeah I am kind of worried about them getting out of control lol maybe I should just use my old 5 gallon SIPs I had "retired" for moms to keep them from going insane.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 27, 2022)

weedstoner420 said:


> I have not, but I would guess in an earthbox (~11 gallons of soil) they get out of control pretty quick, depending on how many clones you need and your definition of "out of control."
> 
> I like to flower in the bigger SIPs, but I've found maintaining moms is easy enough in smaller containers. I use 4" square nursery pots and could probably get a half dozen good clones per month if I wanted, but most of my cuttings go in the compost as it is...


I just read this again ... FOUR inch nursery pots!? wow that seems very small to keep moms in but I don't have a lot of exp. in that style growing, I have always been a from seed guy... but I NEED to get cloning this time around and from now on!


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## weedstoner420 (Dec 27, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I just read this again ... FOUR inch nursery pots!? wow that seems very small to keep moms in but I don't have a lot of exp. in that style growing, I have always been a from seed guy... but I NEED to get cloning this time around and from now on!


Yup. I more or less followed this guide: https://overgrow.com/t/bonsai-mums-by-oldtimer1/1433

You do need to keep on top of feeding and pruning to keep them healthy, but it's not much work at all. I give mine some Alaska 5-1-1 fish fert and liquid kelp every 10-14 days, and prune them way back every 2-3 weeks. Then every 6 months either prune the roots just like that guide shows, or re-clone and start fresh.






Grow-A-Long with Dick


A word of caution…after drying the last plant we found PM on the inside of the largest colas; not a total loss but I will no longer advocate for growing monster size buds. Never really got bud rot like this until this year but recently I’ve been trying to test the limits of my lighting. Wanted...



www.rollitup.org


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## Hash Hound (Dec 30, 2022)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Hello all you new and old SIPers! getting back into the swing and wondering.... has anyone used earthboxes or SIPs for Mom plants specifically? Curious if they get out of control. Thanks all and happy holidaze!


I'm using a 2g with a wick in it for my Widow mom. She's at 32 weeks and I've had to cut her back 9 times already.
She's 41st generation clone of clone from my friend and still very potent.
I made seeds with a clone so after I grow one of them and am happy with the quality I'll grow her out or pitch her.
Also crossed her with 2 different Cheese.



this is one of her clones in a 5g sipping a quart a day


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Dec 31, 2022)

Hash Hound said:


> I'm using a 2g with a wick in it for my Widow mom. She's at 32 weeks and I've had to cut her back 9 times already.
> She's 41st generation clone of clone from my friend and still very potent.
> I made seeds with a clone so after I grow one of them and am happy with the quality I'll grow her out or pitch her.
> Also crossed her with 2 different Cheese.
> ...


Very nice man!


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## raggyb (Jan 1, 2023)

Done some tent cleaning, putting my sips back together as fast as possible. No leaks please. A lot of work! Collecting pollen. Happy New Year y'all. Let's take a toke or something. Hope your new year is a good one, haha!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 1, 2023)

raggyb said:


> Done some tent cleaning, putting my sips back together as fast as possible. No leaks please. A lot of work! Collecting pollen. Happy New Year y'all. Let's take a toke or something. Hope your new year is a good one, haha!


Sounds like a lot of good work getting done for the garden! Great job man! 
I have been dialing in the environment in a new space I think will be used for moms. And pulled my homemade five gallon bucket sips out of "retirement" to get reasy to use for them. Happy new year! 

Peace  and love


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## Xsan (Jan 3, 2023)

Saw this at one of the local big box stores today. I don't think I have seen a pre-made one this large yet


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## misterlaxx (Jan 3, 2023)

Xsan said:


> Saw this at one of the local big box stores today. I don't think I have seen a pre-made one this large yetView attachment 5244647


109 $ ...wicker pieces of shit...they look cool, but 109 aint the price


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## Hollatchaboy (Jan 3, 2023)

misterlaxx said:


> 109 $ ...wicker pieces of shit...they look cool, but 109 aint the price


$110 lol


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## Xsan (Jan 3, 2023)

misterlaxx said:


> 109 $ ...wicker pieces of shit...they look cool, but 109 aint the price



Not at all, I make mine for less. Bigger, stronger, and have the level gauge lol. I'm not changing my setup but I know some folks aren't big on the diy dance but want something bigger than the EBs and such so I figured id throw it out there


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## misterlaxx (Jan 3, 2023)

Xsan said:


> Not at all, I make mine for less. Bigger, stronger, and have the level gauge lol. I'm not changing my setup but I know some folks aren't big on the diy dance but want something bigger than the EBs and such so I figured id throw it out there


I'm just commenting on the expense, good post sir or maam


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## Xsan (Jan 3, 2023)

misterlaxx said:


> I'm just commenting on the expense, good post sir or maam


I find myself commenting on the expense of everything these days. I feel like my parents every time I leave the house...I remember when candy was a nickel lol now I just remember when a full grocery cart was 100usd with brand name products. It's all good, I agree with your comments sir or ma'am. I'm a dude fwiw lol


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