# Nutrient companies are stealing our / your money. Lets talk about it!



## jonnynobody (Jul 21, 2014)

This is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.

I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!

Every time you buy another bottle from another manufacturer and you don't understand what is actually in the bottle and how the plant is going to use it, then you don't even know if you're getting what you need because you never took the time to research how the plant works and what it really needs. Now fancy this; I finally heeded the advice of the seasoned growers on RIU as well as ICMAG (great community as well) and finally asked the question, WHY?

Why does advanced nutrients want to sell me 15 bottles, and GH, and fox farm, etc. to grow some smoke able flowers? Because they are trying to maximize profits and when you are confused and don't have your own information, you accept their information as truth, and then you subsequently have 15 bottles of crap you don't need that you spent too much money on, sitting in your closet. In reality, you probably only needed about 4 or 5 bottles at the most.

Let me share a secret with you that's not really a secret (just don't tell the nutrient companies):

The only things you need are the building blocks that plants require. So what do plants require?

The essential macro elements
The essential micro elements
Healthy roots
Healthy leaves

If you have all 4 of those things, you will produce healthy beautiful flowers. The plants don't care if you spent $400 on your nutrient line, they care about the 4 things listed above which does NOT require 15 different bottles with pretty pictures and silly names like bud blood and so forth.

Simplify your life and use a simple base nutrient that has all of the macro elements, micro elements, and keep your roots and leaves happy. That's it!

Now you will eventually accumulate some bottles as individual situations arise as I have done, but any seasoned grower that understands the plant also understands what the plant needs and it's not expensive nor is it very complicated. It just takes time, initiative, and lots of gumption to sort out for yourself what the nutrient companies don't want you to figure out.

My current line up is general hydroponics flora Grow, Micro, and bloom which contains all of the essential micro and macro elements in the proper proportions for each stage of growth: vegetative and flowering.

I supplement the base elements with floralicous plus from general hydroponics for the sea kelp content and beneficial microbes that help with root zone problems. Every now and then if you have a micro heard going (i.e. beneficial microbes / mycohorrizae) that you need to feed as I do, then once every couple of weeks you will need to feed the micro heard some carbohydrates (i.e. sugars / molasses). GH (and the others) sell it as a carbo load which is only to feed the micro heard which then benefits the roots which then benefits the leaves which then benefits the flowers.

There are of course many factors that a grower will still need to zero in on and adjust to dial your entire environment in other than just nutrients, but a thorough understanding of just what the plant needs will give you a solid foundation for your journey into the mastering of the cannabis plant. Now once you master the plant, you can then train the next Jedi or start a nutrient company and obfuscate the ingredients of you mystery cocktail and sell if for $50/pint. Once you have the knowledge, you hold the power and you can then educate others and help free others from the shackles of misinformation and greed. I'll leave you with the famous last words of Mr. Robert Van Winkle (A.K.A. Vanilla ice):

WORD TO YOUR MOTHER 

BTW, I did post this to 2 separate threads to spread the discussion to both advanced and new growers so this information will assist both new and seasoned growers alike (hopefully). My apologies for being redundant if you saw this in the other sub forum.


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## pk_boosted2 (May 4, 2015)

jonnynobody said:


> This is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.
> 
> I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!
> 
> ...


To answer ur question easily. Companies like AN developed a lineup so u can create ur nutrient profile specific to the needs of individual strains. They also have nutrients in so many bottles bcuz they understand that in order to have direct control of ur grows u need to be able to use certain amounts of macro and micro nutrients and other elements bcuz every strain grows differently

There isnt just one bottle of anything that can provide all of the needs of ur plants so they provide everything u need to use in each form so u can apply them as needed.

Also AN nutrients r chelated and broken down to the best possible form for plant uptake. U cant provide everything in one bottle bcuz if u tried to the solutions would become suspended and separate and wouldnt work properly. Therefore they put them in different solutions and suspensions so u can deliver them to ur plants for optimal growth and production. AN is a very reputable company and their products are some of the best in class in each specific area they target.

U also dont need to use "15" bottles of anything to get good results. They simply offer and can provide them as u need them.

All u need from AN to get good results is one of their bases which are very inexpensive bcuz they r not only highly concentrated but also chelated for optimal uptake. They last a very long time as u dont need much of them to provide all essential elements for ur plants.

So after u get their bases all u need to grow is 4 things:
Voodoo Juice
B-52
Big Bud
Overdrive

The other products they offer are simply for piece of mind and for optimal results.
Rhino Skin - Mag and Silicates
Piranaha & Tarantula - Bene's & Microbes
Bud Candy - carbohydrates

I use most of their lineup for my grows and I can promise you and anyone else that it is well worth the money. Not only do you get superb quality flowers but they produce massive yields and huge flowers!!

I also like Canna and I think that is the best on the market all around and easiest to use. The whole lineup is only 5 things:
*Bases (a&b)
*Canna-Boost (Best product of its kind and is by far best Bloom Enhancer on the market it is 2nd to none) many companies try to make their own version but nothing comes close.. It is most exp partof the lineup but is by far the best on the market hands down!!
*PK 13:14
*Cannazyme
**** Only thing I recommend adding is the H&G Roots Excellurator which is the best product of its kind on the market for root innoculation and enhancement period.

If u wanna go cheaper route but give up final yield but focus on quality I recommend Botanicare Pure Blend Pro Series
Its easy to use. Comes w one base that works very well as a stand alone nutrient without needing kuch of anything else and it is very inexpensive.

I run the Veg & Bloom
Cal-Mag
Silicate
Hydroplex
H&G Roots Excel.
Atami Bloombastic
Sweet Raw Natural
And I average 1.5-1.75 per 1000w lamp. That being said I do get less overall yield but the quality of the flowers: smell, taste, aroma and potency is right up their with AN & Canna.

As far as GO 3-Part although the bases r very inexpensive the plants in order to get great results u still need to substitute other amendments and supplements to maximize yield and quality. Its a synthetic nutrient and doesnt produce the falvors aromas and consistency I find in AN, Canna or Botanicare; but I do know many big time growers who love the 3-Part bcuz it is cheap and easy to use. The only down side for me as mentioned is quality and yield, without alot of other by products it not in the top tier of nutrient bases available on market I consider it to be bottom tier or mid-tier nutrient as a whole.

I do like the GO General Organic line up though. Its alot of bottles and is priced fairly but it provides some very nice quality flowers without sacrificing alot of yield either. All around its great product if u wanna go organic and price is fairly reasonable.

As ppl mention IMO Dyna-Gro, Jack's, Humboldt County, Dutch Masters, Atami are bottom of the barrel nutrients. They dont produce good yields, the quality is terrible, and aroma and flavor is awful. Since these products are primarily pure synthetics that is a given. If u dont have $$ any of them will work as they are cheap as the dirt u use but I would never use any of them to grow at all. 

In this business ur input is as only good as ur output. Meaning you pay for what u get. So go with #1 Canna #2 Adv Nutrients #3 H&G #4 Botanicare #5 Complete Nutrients (new product very good all around nutrients - combination between AN and Canna - but very expensive and not as good as either of those companies as its a "knock-off" brand.

Ppl can argue all they want there is a reason that Canna - AN and Botanicare are the leading MJ nutrients in the world. You pay for what you get. When u compare your input (cost up front) for your output "ROI" (return on investment) using any of the mentioned products I use with out perform and of those cheaper products on the market hands down.


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## chuck estevez (May 4, 2015)

*LOL

Nuff said,




*


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## chuck estevez (May 4, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> To answer ur question easily. Companies like AN developed a lineup so u can create ur nutrient profile specific to the needs of individual strains. They also have nutrients in so many bottles bcuz they understand that in order to have direct control of ur grows u need to be able to use certain amounts of macro and micro nutrients and other elements bcuz every strain grows differently
> 
> There isnt just one bottle of anything that can provide all of the needs of ur plants so they provide everything u need to use in each form so u can apply them as needed.
> 
> ...



WORD FOR WORD, exactly what he tells his hydro store customers every day. He spouts it SO much. he actually believes it,LOL


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## unspecified (May 4, 2015)

jonnynobody said:


> This is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.
> 
> I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!
> 
> ...


AN suggest you use all their products, like any good business. They do not say you have to have them all, some are "enhancers" that you dont have to use. They also make a wide range of products because everyone swears their way is the best and want to make a product for everyone. I've had nice grows with just the basic AN jungle Juice 3 part and with the Ph perfect. Both companies will tell you it was designed for hydro but works in soil.






GH is glad to have the Mj market but its not their main target!

While he acknowledged the medical marijuana industry uses his company’s products, he said it has never been the company’s focus. Rather, he said his lifelong goal has been to perfect ways to grow food more efficiently on a planet whose resources are strained by an exploding population.

“However large a cannabis market may be, a fruit market is exponentially larger,” Brooke said.


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## phil k (May 4, 2015)

jonnynobody said:


> This is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.
> 
> I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!
> 
> ...




completely freaking agree but the issues come into play when you open a grow magazine and see all these full page ads of marketing at its best to sell you the crap you don't need.. i always tried telling people that when they are buying stuff.... like years ago when advanced came out and it was like 600+ $ just to run their line... and EVERYONE was itching to run it because their marketing was so good.. it all comes to what you said.. NPK macro.. micros.. beneficial bacteria and shit like mycos and bacillus

but also when you as a new grower walk into any hydro store with cash and say hey i wanna have the best system point me to it.. the last thing they do is walk you to something like general hydroponics line or something thats completely reliable.. proven and cheap .. they walk you straight to the bud candy/connisuer bottles... or the house of gardens .. or humboldt.. ya know ..


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## Fogdog (May 4, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> *LOL
> 
> Nuff said,
> 
> ...


Sorry but I'm not sure what you trying to say. I'm not picking a fight, I'm just trying to learn. Are you saying this one bottle is all one would need or are you poking fun at the product or you are trying to say something else?


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## phil k (May 4, 2015)

unspecified said:


> AN suggest you use all their products, like any good business. They do not say you have to have them all, some are "enhancers" that you dont have to use. They also make a wide range of products because everyone swears their way is the best and want to make a product for everyone. I've had nice grows with just the basic AN jungle Juice 3 part and with the Ph perfect. Both companies will tell you it was designed for hydro but works in soil.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


GH originally started their company on a nasa contract to create a grow line they could use in shit like the space station to grow .... thats how they started ... well i can't say thats how they actually first started but i do know their first big break was the nasa thing.


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## chuck estevez (May 4, 2015)

Fogdog said:


> Sorry but I'm not sure what you trying to say. I'm not picking a fight, I'm just trying to learn. Are you saying this one bottle is all one would need or are you poking fun at the product or you are trying to say something else?


I grow multiple strains, all with this one bottle, start to finish, ANYTHING made cannabis specific is designed for one thing, to get your $$$$$


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## chuck estevez (May 4, 2015)

everything a plant needs


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## phil k (May 4, 2015)

well sugars become important to to an extent but theres sugars in shit people don't even realize.. amendment wise you can get ample sugars from soybean meal. 



jonnynobody said:


> This is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.
> 
> I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!
> 
> ...





jonnynobody said:


> This is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.
> 
> I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!
> 
> ...


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## phil k (May 4, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> I grow multiple strains, all with this one bottle, start to finish, ANYTHING made cannabis specific is designed for one thing, to get your $$$$$


yeah absolutely if you know what your doing feed wise you can grow with 1 and 2 parts.. all your getting with 8 part systems is 1 and 2 part systems separated.. thats it.. instead of calcium.. magnesium.. sugars.. all in one they put them in separate bottles and charge you individually for each chemical as opposed to charging you for one mix.....

i don't use chemicals but I'm the same i have butt loads of genetics... and have gone through butt loads in the past ... never had issues growing the way i do all my strains are always hardy and healthy as long as you know what your doing... you can't make the genetics grow better with some magic chemicals ... the genetics are what they are you either grow them properly and healthy without drowning them in foods and water or you don't


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## Fogdog (May 4, 2015)

jonnynobody said:


> This is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.
> 
> I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!
> 
> ...


I'm trying to learn as much as I can before the laws in Oregon regarding non-medical MJ growing open up in July. I will say that I'm put off by the hype that the hydro suppliers use to push their stuff and suspicious that there isn't good science behind it. When picking a wine, if I'm confronted with selections that I haven't tried I have a rule of thumb regarding colors on the label. More than two colors on the label -- marketing hype, choose a different bottle. Those psychedelic labels with eye popping colors on the hydro nutrient bottles set off an alert to me that somebody is selling something other than plant food. This post and others confirms my suspicions. So, thanks for this post!


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## chuck estevez (May 4, 2015)

Fogdog said:


> I'm trying to learn as much as I can before the laws in Oregon regarding non-medical MJ growing open up in July. I will say that I'm put off by the hype that the hydro suppliers use to push their stuff and suspicious that there isn't good science behind it. When picking a wine, if I'm confronted with selections that I haven't tried I have a rule of thumb regarding colors on the label. More than two colors on the label -- marketing hype, choose a different bottle. Those psychedelic labels with eye popping colors on the hydro nutrient bottles set off an alert to me that somebody is selling something other than plant food. This post and others confirms my suspicions. So, thanks for this post!


a plant is a plant and Weed is no different than any other plant. there is no magic bottles. Remember this
in soil/dirt, you want a living medium. you feed the soil, the soil feeds the plant. this requires understanding organic soil
for synthetic nutes, use a soiless,i e peat/coco or do full hydro.
most people buy a bag of ocean forest and start pumping it full of AN nutes. it doesn't usually work very well.


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## unspecified (May 4, 2015)

Fogdog said:


> I'm trying to learn as much as I can before the laws in Oregon regarding non-medical MJ growing open up in July. I will say that I'm put off by the hype that the hydro suppliers use to push their stuff and suspicious that there isn't good science behind it. When picking a wine, if I'm confronted with selections that I haven't tried I have a rule of thumb regarding colors on the label. More than two colors on the label -- marketing hype, choose a different bottle. Those psychedelic labels with eye popping colors on the hydro nutrient bottles set off an alert to me that somebody is selling something other than plant food. This post and others confirms my suspicions. So, thanks for this post!


There is plenty of science behind them! look into GH. They aren't a weed nutrient business. They are a nutrient company based on science and mass producing any type of fruit or veggie. It's doctors and scientists that started the company.





using a flashy bottle is obviously to catch your but in no way means it's junk. What a terrible way to select wine as well! I live in wine country, I drive through vineyards to get to my property, my family works in the wine business, I get free wine all the time and that is a terrible way to judge! There is an old saying for this! Don't judge a book by it's cover!


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## chuck estevez (May 4, 2015)

unspecified said:


> There is plenty of science behind them! look into GH. They aren't a weed nutrient business. They are a nutrient company based on science and mass producing any type of fruit or veggie. It's doctors and scientists that started the company.


and they are now owned by SCOTT'S/Monsanto/miracle gro, still want to use them?


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## unspecified (May 4, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> and they are now owned by SCOTT'S/Monsanto/miracle gro, still want to use them?


I don't use them anymore... I'm all outdoor now, all organic, brewing teas. Who bought them recently has nothing to do with the product and yes I would still use them knowing they were bought by them! That's millions more they can spend on R&D. Scott's is a leader in the fert business for a reason, thier shit works and there is ton of science behind them. that is their thing...

How is something bad because a big company bought it? This huge fert company realized GH was a great product and purchased it, they aren't changing the formula or how its made, they are going to start making other products under the GH line and keep the original money maker. Scotts has talked about getting into the MJ market long before they actually bought GH. buying GH was just an easy step into the market with a huge share of the market already using their product now, they don't have to build their name from scratch to make money, they have a trusted brand they can expand on. Good business, not their fault if you buy something you don't need. Maybe study more and you won't waste your money.


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## chuck estevez (May 4, 2015)

unspecified said:


> I don't use them anymore... I'm all outdoor now, all organic, brewing teas. Who bought them recently has nothing to do with the product and yes I would still use them knowing they were bought by them! That's millions more they can spend on R&D. Scott's is a leader in the fert business for a reason, thier shit works and there is ton of science behind them. that is their thing...
> 
> How is something bad because a big company bought it? This huge fert company realized GH was a great product and purchased it, they aren't changing the formula or how its made, they are going to start making other products under the GH line and keep the original money maker. Scotts has talked about getting into the MJ market long before they actually bought GH. buying GH was just an easy step into the market with a huge share of the market already using their product now, they don't have to build their name from scratch to make money, they have a trusted brand they can expand on. Good business, not their fault if you buy something you don't need. Maybe study more and you won't waste your money.


if you enjoy supporting greedy corporations like Monsanto, who will eventually ruin Marijuana as we know it, then good for you. Just remember, when it happens, you helped it. good luck with that.


1998 - Monsanto: Scotts entered into a collaboration with the Monsanto Company to bring the benefits of biotechnology to the multi-billion dollar turfgrass and ornamental plants business. Under the agreement, Scotts and Monsanto agree to share technologies, including Monsanto's extensive genetic library of plant traits and Scotts' proprietary gene gun technology to produce improved transgenic turfgrasses and ornamental plants.


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## chuck estevez (May 4, 2015)

what a GREAT company

*Sale of bird seed in 2005–2008[edit]*
On January 27, 2012, Scotts Miracle-Gro agreed to plead guilty in federal court and pay $4.5 million in fines for selling 73 million units of bird seed from November 2005 to March 2008 that was coated with pesticide known to be deadly to birds and fish. Pesticides were added to protect the product from insects during storage, notwithstanding that Storcide II, one of the pesticides used, was clearly marked as extremely toxic to birds. Records show that its own experts warned of the risk in the summer and fall of 2007 and yet Scotts continued to sell the deadly product until March 2008. In 2008, Scotts Miracle-Gro also falsified pesticide registration numbers required by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency on its products.[5]

On September 7, 2012, in Ohio, a federal court sentenced Scotts to pay a $4 million fine and perform community service for 11 criminal violations of the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA). In a separate agreement with the Environmental Protection Agency, Scotts agreed to pay more than $6 million in penalties and spend $2 million on environmental projects. According to the Justice Department, both the criminal and civil settlements are the largest under FIFRA to date.[6]


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## unspecified (May 4, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> if you enjoy supporting greedy corporations like Monsanto, who will eventually ruin Marijuana as we know it, then good for you. Just remember, when it happens, you helped it. good luck with that.


HAHAHA! Yes I am in support of greedy corporations! If I had the chance to start a huge corp you bet your ass I would! What makes them greedy? The fact that they want to make money? that's not greedy! Have they raised the price on their products since purchasing it? no they havent. 
It's called good business to expand. You try to make as much money as you can, are you greedy? just because they are on a larger scale doesn't mean they are greedy. Have you seen the amount of donations those companies make, companies don't have to give anything, do anything but they have. Just because you can write off donations on taxes it doesn't mean you saved money. They still don't have the money they gave away, big deal they don't have to pay taxes on money they don't have. I would rather pay 30% taxes and still have my other 70%

How will they ruin marijuana as we know it? I don't even use their products, I make my own...


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## chuck estevez (May 4, 2015)

unspecified said:


> HAHAHA! Yes I am in support of greedy corporations! If I had the chance to start a huge corp you bet your ass I would! What makes them greedy? The fact that they want to make money? that's not greedy! Have they raised the price on their products since purchasing it? no they havent.
> It's called good business to expand. You try to make as much money as you can, are you greedy? just because they are on a larger scale doesn't mean they are greedy. Have you seen the amount of donations those companies make, companies don't have to give anything, do anything but they have. Just because you can write off donations on taxes it doesn't mean you saved money. They still don't have the money they gave away, big deal they don't have to pay taxes on money they don't have. I would rather pay 30% taxes and still have my other 70%
> 
> How will they ruin marijuana as we know it? I don't even use their products, I make my own...


GMO weed, DUH they only owned it for less than 6 months. give them time.


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## unspecified (May 4, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> what a GREAT company
> 
> *Sale of bird seed in 2005–2008[edit]*
> On January 27, 2012, Scotts Miracle-Gro agreed to plead guilty in federal court and pay $4.5 million in fines for selling 73 million units of bird seed from November 2005 to March 2008 that was coated with pesticide known to be deadly to birds and fish. Pesticides were added to protect the product from insects during storage, notwithstanding that Storcide II, one of the pesticides used, was clearly marked as extremely toxic to birds. Records show that its own experts warned of the risk in the summer and fall of 2007 and yet Scotts continued to sell the deadly product until March 2008. In 2008, Scotts Miracle-Gro also falsified pesticide registration numbers required by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency on its products.[5]
> ...



Don't forget the Corn corps that monty grew that they weren't supposed to and ended up in court over it.

How many rules are you playing by growing


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## unspecified (May 4, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> GMO weed, DUH they only owned it for less than 6 months. give them time.


Don't use their products... I don't... No GMO weed for me... LOL!


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## chuck estevez (May 4, 2015)

unspecified said:


> Don't use their products... I don't... No GMO weed for me... LOL!


"HAHAHA! Yes I am in support of greedy corporations!"
your words, plus, just you here in this thread, offering up the use of their products, puts you in support of them. Just sayin!!


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## unspecified (May 4, 2015)

Supreme Court hands Monsanto victory over farmers on GMO seed patents, ability to sue

Monty can sue you if their crop contaminates yours and it grows! Gotta love big business!


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## unspecified (May 4, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> "HAHAHA! Yes I am in support of greedy corporations!"
> your words, plus, just you here in this thread, offering up the use of their products, puts you in support of them. Just sayin!!


I never denied being in support of them! I fully support big business, I hope to be that success full one day where I can pay millions in court fines and still have enough to buy GH!


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## unspecified (May 4, 2015)

In a June 2013 ruling, the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in Washington, DC said it was inevitable, as the farmers’ argued, that contamination from Monsanto’s products would occur. Yet the appeals panel also said the plaintiffs do not have standing to prohibit Monsanto from suing them should the company’s genetic traits end up on their holdings _"because Monsanto has made binding assurances that it will not 'take legal action against growers whose crops might inadvertently contain traces of Monsanto biotech genes (because, for example, some transgenic seed or pollen blew onto the grower's land).'"_


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## unspecified (May 4, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> "HAHAHA! Yes I am in support of greedy corporations!"
> your words, plus, just you here in this thread, offering up the use of their products, puts you in support of them. Just sayin!!


I wasn't offering up the use of their products either. simply stating that if you do purchase their products unaware of what you're purchasing or how it works isn't stealing your money and that there is plenty of science behind them. A product isn't bad because it's made/sold by a large company or has a flashy label.
Trix cereal is damn good and has a super flashy label and sold by a big company, every company knows flashy colors catch the eye so you look at them first.

even if they do make GMO weed, it won't be the only option...


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## bicit (May 4, 2015)

Simple solution(no pun intended), buy your own raw salts and mix it yourself. 

https://www.customhydronutrients.com/zencart/


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## bicit (May 4, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> As ppl mention IMO Dyna-Gro, Jack's, Humboldt County, Dutch Masters, Atami are bottom of the barrel nutrients. They dont produce good yields, the quality is terrible, and aroma and flavor is awful. Since these products are primarily pure synthetics that is a given. If u dont have $$ any of them will work as they are cheap as the dirt u use but I would never use any of them to grow at all.


Nutrients are nutrients. There is nothing that AN does that jacks and the others do not. All that matters is the ratios which can be manipulated. If so desired anything advanced nutrients makes can be copied and made at home from raw salts for a much lower price.

Why pay a premium for bottled water?


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## Fogdog (May 4, 2015)

unspecified said:


> There is plenty of science behind them! look into GH. They aren't a weed nutrient business. They are a nutrient company based on science and mass producing any type of fruit or veggie. It's doctors and scientists that started the company.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply anything about that this particular product. I'm just here to learn. I stand by my statement that whether the wine is good or bad or the nutrients in a bottle are good or bad, the label has nothing to do with the quality in the bottle. Those flashy labels are to grab attention and sell wine or nutrients regardless of quality and so I'm suspicious, that's all. Yes trying the product is the best way to choose a wine. Oregon has some fine wine as well. Its wonderful to go on a tasting tour and check out product before you buy. Can't do that with a bottle of nutrients. Must read and learn first.


----------



## unspecified (May 4, 2015)

Fogdog said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean to imply anything about that this particular product. I'm just here to learn. I stand by my statement that whether the wine is good or bad or the nutrients in a bottle are good or bad, the label has nothing to do with the quality in the bottle. Those flashy labels are to grab attention and sell wine or nutrients regardless of quality and so I'm suspicious, that's all. Yes trying the product is the best way to choose a wine. Oregon has some fine wine as well. Its wonderful to go on a tasting tour and check out product before you buy. Can't do that with a bottle of nutrients. Must read and learn first.


Alot of companies do offer sample sets or starter kits to see if you like their products. Alot of them make smaller bottles to give away at conventions and to give away at hydro stores. if you email the companies and say you are thinking about trying their product and want to know if they have samples, they usually send them out free or for the cost of shipping.
http://www.madhatternutrients.com/free-sample/
I don't use them but they offer free samples to get you to switch if you like it. Almost all nutrient companies will set you up with something if you contact them and ask. even if they don't have anything free at the time, it doesn't hurt to ask.


----------



## Fogdog (May 4, 2015)

unspecified said:


> l.
> Trix cereal is damn good and has a super flashy label and sold by a big company, every company knows flashy colors catch the eye so you look at them first.


Well, this is one point where I must disagree. You think Trix are good, I don't. But no matter. As far as packaging goes, yes, it triggers an innate response. Marketers take advantage of that. Its up to us to understand that. To me -- and this is just my opinion -- I see this as a signal that somebody may be selling me cereal that is empty of nutrition or a bottle of water and some cheap chemicals at a premium and am leery. 



unspecified said:


> Alot of companies do offer sample sets or starter kits to see if you like their products. Alot of them make smaller bottles to give away at conventions and to give away at hydro stores. if you email the companies and say you are thinking about trying their product and want to know if they have samples, they usually send them out free or for the cost of shipping.
> http://www.madhatternutrients.com/free-sample/
> I don't use them but they offer free samples to get you to switch if you like it. Almost all nutrient companies will set you up with something if you contact them and ask. even if they don't have anything free at the time, it doesn't hurt to ask.


Thanks for the tip regarding samples. I might look into this. Given the cost of seed or clones and the time invested in a grow, I'm more interested in making an informed choice than sampling but I might if I can't decide any other way.


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## phil k (May 4, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> GMO weed, DUH they only owned it for less than 6 months. give them time.


haha wholly shit could you imagine seeing monsanto nugs... if it decriminalizes you know they will... jesus i can see it now... pot grown with chemicals that would kill a kid....but makes monsantos bud strains fucking pine trees!!


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## phil k (May 4, 2015)

bicit said:


> Nutrients are nutrients. There is nothing that AN does that jacks and the others do not. All that matters is the ratios which can be manipulated. If so desired anything advanced nutrients makes can be copied and made at home from raw salts for a much lower price.
> 
> Why pay a premium for bottled water?


yep ... absolutely.. BUT there are some companies that do use lower quality amendments..or extract from lower quality product.. but nutes are nutes.. bottom line.. i grew up on a farm and all we ever did was transfer crops yearly so that if we grew soybeans next year we'd grind the soy leftovers ingot the soil... plant corn and the high nitrogen fed the corn gave it sugars etc.. everything it needed.. then grind the corn talks in spread some shit... plant soy do it again.... some year plant some wheats to increase the soil fertility and take less out... i mean growing is very very basic no matter what you do.. its environment... food water sun.. and most don't get how little food is required... i know people here that run 3900ppm in flower and somehow think they are the man because they run the levels they run and their plants are big... well quality never equality quantity.....


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## phil k (May 4, 2015)

bicit said:


> Nutrients are nutrients. There is nothing that AN does that jacks and the others do not. All that matters is the ratios which can be manipulated. If so desired anything advanced nutrients makes can be copied and made at home from raw salts for a much lower price.
> 
> Why pay a premium for bottled water?


have you ever stuck a PPM meter on bottled water?? evian.. runs 300+ppm my tap is 176ppm.... no filter.. HELLO wake up we are all being screwed more than we know.


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## bicit (May 4, 2015)

phil k said:


> yep ... absolutely.. BUT there are some companies that do use lower quality amendments..or extract from lower quality product.. but nutes are nutes.. bottom line.. i grew up on a farm and all we ever did was transfer crops yearly so that if we grew soybeans next year we'd grind the soy leftovers ingot the soil... plant corn and the high nitrogen fed the corn gave it sugars etc.. everything it needed.. then grind the corn talks in spread some shit... plant soy do it again.... some year plant some wheats to increase the soil fertility and take less out... i mean growing is very very basic no matter what you do.. its environment... food water sun.. and most don't get how little food is required... i know people here that run 3900ppm in flower and somehow think they are the man because they run the levels they run and their plants are big... well quality never equality quantity.....


 Really? 3900ppm? How?

I can't push past 1600 without killing things. 800-1k seems to be the sweet spot.


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## phil k (May 4, 2015)

bicit said:


> Really? 3900ppm? How?
> 
> I can't push past 1600 without killing things. 800-1k seems to be the sweet spot.


i am in no way at all joking with you .. in ann arbor, MI at "the grow show" theres a guy there that has braids and glasses he runs hydro ... we have talked for years about his insane chemical amounts and his last flower in winter was running 3800-3900ppm and I SHIT YOU NOT he thought for some reason he was this god for running PPM levels that high..


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## phil k (May 4, 2015)

everything can adjust over time.. especially if your flushing properly on a weekly basis .. I'm not saying its right but all plants will adjust to envirmoent.. Im not backing him I've never ever actually seen his grows.. seen the PPM levels..or smoked his flower i just know what he says and states..


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## anzohaze (May 4, 2015)

And you


pk_boosted2 said:


> To answer ur question easily. Companies like AN developed a lineup so u can create ur nutrient profile specific to the needs of individual strains. They also have nutrients in so many bottles bcuz they understand that in order to have direct control of ur grows u need to be able to use certain amounts of macro and micro nutrients and other elements bcuz every strain grows differently
> 
> There isnt just one bottle of anything that can provide all of the needs of ur plants so they provide everything u need to use in each form so u can apply them as needed.
> 
> ...


And you work for AN congrats bro


----------



## ttystikk (May 4, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> To answer ur question easily. Companies like AN developed a lineup so u can create ur nutrient profile specific to the needs of individual strains. They also have nutrients in so many bottles bcuz they understand that in order to have direct control of ur grows u need to be able to use certain amounts of macro and micro nutrients and other elements bcuz every strain grows differently
> 
> There isnt just one bottle of anything that can provide all of the needs of ur plants so they provide everything u need to use in each form so u can apply them as needed.
> 
> ...


AN = Anal Pedophiles. One of the owners was indicted in Europe on charges of sodomizing a fifteen year old girl in Eastern Europe. That sounds real reputable to me.

All that blather about different strains needing different formulations is complete bullshit! A minor tweak at the very most, that's all any need. Hello? They're all just different strains of the same thing!

I have my nutrients broken down into four packages of dry salts and they work just fine... no fancy labels, no ridiculous costs, no library of half used bottles:

1. Base mix, 5-11-26 with micros
2. Yara Liva brand calcium nitrate
3. Haifa brand MKP
4. Epsom salt

That's all you need, folks!


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## bicit (May 4, 2015)

phil k said:


> i am in no way at all joking with you .. in ann arbor, MI at "the grow show" theres a guy there that has braids and glasses he runs hydro ... we have talked for years about his insane chemical amounts and his last flower in winter was running 3800-3900ppm and I SHIT YOU NOT he thought for some reason he was this god for running PPM levels that high..


What sort of system? Soulless media, dwc, f&d?

Anything that hot in a dwc will kill. Maybe tomatoes would do fine, but notcannabis


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## pk_boosted2 (May 5, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> AN = Anal Pedophiles. One of the owners was indicted in Europe on charges of sodomizing a fifteen year old girl in Eastern Europe. That sounds real reputable to me.
> 
> All that blather about different strains needing different formulations is complete bullshit! A minor tweak at the very most, that's all any need. Hello? They're all just different strains of the same thing!
> 
> ...


Im not here to be God and judge people morality at all. Im just explaining reasoning why they have so many bottles in their lineup. They just offer them for anyone who wants to dial in specific nutrient profiles etcc...

They will even tel u if u ask them what the basic shit u need to use for good results and they will tell u right at customer support or any of the division managers that all u need is 5 things from their lineup to grow good flowers.

Bases
Voodoo Juice
Big Bud
Overdrive
B-52

Thats all u need from Advanced and u can get great results. But if u want the push and dial in a strain if u use the rest of the lineup give or take it will yield better and quality increases. I honor this bcuz I use AN and have been for a long time. It truly is one of the best MJ specific nutrients on the market. Im a firm believe of u paying for what u get. Which is why I also love Canna lineup and their products easy to use and well made and they are 2nd to noone.


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## chuck estevez (May 5, 2015)




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## pk_boosted2 (May 5, 2015)

First of all I dont work for AN or for anyone for a matter of fact. Im simply stating what I know to be true from my perspective in growing for past decade. Anything I say is my experiences and my knowledge on the facts that I have established during many trial and errors.

Like I've mentioned millions of times before. Anyone can use anything to grow thse plants and produce flowers. BUT* when I look at my input to output.. Using high end ferts like Canna.. AN. And other "watered down bottle MJ specific nutrients" my results speak for themselves. Yield. Quality. Aroma. Smell and overall plant health always come out better when I use one of these products opposed to the cheaper ones I mention all the time.

Jacks Classic, Dyna-Gro.. GH gen organics they dont even hold a flame to what I get off my "expensive bottled nutrients".

Until someone proves me otherwise I am stickin to that 110%. and like i said all of them work. But u do not get the results u can get if u use better nutrients. Im tired of hearing about raw salts and making ur own shit to save money. Why do that when u got companies who spend millions per year on research and development who r plant scientists that developed the recipes and give u the products that work the best with money back guarantee.

What other company gives u 100% mone back guarantees? Noone. Ive returned shit i didnt like no questions asked. Anyways this is one of them arguments that eill go on forever so im done but whatever


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## Aeroknow (May 5, 2015)




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## pk_boosted2 (May 5, 2015)

People can argue all they want but i guarantee half the ppl on here arguing about Canna - AN etcc.. Have never even used the products but seem to have the most shit to say about them. 

Like i said these ppl r either to cheap, dont have the money or just hate on products they cant afford or think arent worth the money but have never even used the shit to know better. 

Ive used almost all of them so I can say for 100% all nutrients are not created equal. Dont give fck what anyone wanna say about it. Dyna gro is garbage. And so is Jacks classic. Theres a reason noone commercially or in big grows uses this shit. Its all synthetic its cheap as dirt and thats for a reason! Period.

If that shit was so good than none of these other companies would be in business. If dynagro and jacks was so fckin good than how come noone uses it to grow commercially or on large scale grows for any of the grows if the cost analysis was so low? At end of the day ppl in MJ business are out to make money yet more than half of all major distributors and large growers for dispensaries and green houses throughout the country use one of the major MJ specific growing nutrients whether it be AN - Canna / GH or Botanicare.
So please explain that to me and than ill stop.

How come noone uses it just explain that to me? Show me proof because I know it doesnt exist its that simple. That shit is used for nurseries and gardening not for MJ. These big growing warehouses and green houses that grow for profit and purpose dontuse the shit and if it so good and so cheap please explain to me why they wouldnt wanna use it to save so much money because the price and costs analysis would ultimately save them hundreds of thousands of dollars on nutrient each year? But they still spend money on expensive bottled nutrients from such companies. Once u explain that than I will stop. Proof is in the pudding the shit is garbage and any real grower knows that.


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## chuck estevez (May 5, 2015)




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## Aboutapound (May 5, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> People can argue all they want but i guarantee half the ppl on here arguing about Canna - AN etcc.. Have never even used the products but seem to have the most shit to say about them.
> 
> Like i said these ppl r either to cheap, dont have the money or just hate on products they cant afford or think arent worth the money but have never even used the shit to know better.
> 
> ...


----------



## anzohaze (May 5, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> First of all I dont work for AN or for anyone for a matter of fact. Im simply stating what I know to be true from my perspective in growing for past decade. Anything I say is my experiences and my knowledge on the facts that I have established during many trial and errors.
> 
> Like I've mentioned millions of times before. Anyone can use anything to grow thse plants and produce flowers. BUT* when I look at my input to output.. Using high end ferts like Canna.. AN. And other "watered down bottle MJ specific nutrients" my results speak for themselves. Yield. Quality. Aroma. Smell and overall plant health always come out better when I use one of these products opposed to the cheaper ones I mention all the time.
> 
> ...


Get Off Your High Horse. Them bottlers don't spend million you have people here that spend 40 dollars and have many years supply of mutes salts As they make there own. I am organic no bottles no nothing it cost me roughly a 100 dollars for 2 years of run time except electricity. Bottles are for suckers. you spend a 1000 with me and you want to return sure I'll let you return it I just made 995 dollars on you


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## Dr. Who (May 5, 2015)

unspecified said:


> In a June 2013 ruling, the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in Washington, DC said it was inevitable, as the farmers’ argued, that contamination from Monsanto’s products would occur. Yet the appeals panel also said the plaintiffs do not have standing to prohibit Monsanto from suing them should the company’s genetic traits end up on their holdings _"because Monsanto has made binding assurances that it will not 'take legal action against growers whose crops might inadvertently contain traces of Monsanto biotech genes (because, for example, some transgenic seed or pollen blew onto the grower's land).'"_


I farm..Monsatan LIES!!!

If you farm soy in your rotation (not Monsatan's) and it gets cross pollinated by your neighbor's Monsatan soy.....and you try and clean a portion of your harvest for replant the next year following the corn of last year. If Monsatan finds out......They WILL sue you!
They have paid spy's that watch out for this. *NO SHIT! *



phil k said:


> have you ever stuck a PPM meter on bottled water?? evian.. runs 300+ppm my tap is 176ppm.... no filter.. HELLO wake up we are all being screwed more than we know.


Evian water. From France. First bottled water sold in the US........What is Evian backwards?

*NAIVE*

_adjective_ na·ive \nä-ˈēv, nī-\
: having or showing a lack of experience or knowledge : innocent or simple


Doc


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## phil k (May 5, 2015)

let me be the first to say i have ran all the high end lines... from 2009-2012 i had a connection a at local grow store where every new line that came in i would get the whole line at cost just to give the owner feedback on how it ran and what to tell customers.... i've ran house of gardens, advanced, onessess humboldt... master A&B humboldt... , multiple gen hydro lines, and i can't name all the others like fox farms.. ionic... down to fucking dyna gro and shit i ran when i was even younger. if you truly believe that canna or advanced have this special chemical no one else has thats making the grows better id have to say you've never grown a proper hearty crop with anything but the costly nutes. i would never pay for nutes again but if i did i wouldn't grow with anything other than general hydro line + kool bloom and some mycos


and your right not all nutes are equal different companies use different materials or extracts for certain NPK ratios and shit... but if you know what the heck you actually need the last thing is a 600$ grow line. theres just no arguing it...



pk_boosted2 said:


> People can argue all they want but i guarantee half the ppl on here arguing about Canna - AN etcc.. Have never even used the products but seem to have the most shit to say about them.
> 
> Like i said these ppl r either to cheap, dont have the money or just hate on products they cant afford or think arent worth the money but have never even used the shit to know better.
> 
> ...


----------



## phil k (May 5, 2015)

Dr. Who said:


> I farm..Monsatan LIES!!!
> 
> If you farm soy in your rotation (not Monsatan's) and it gets cross pollinated by your neighbor's Monsatan soy.....and you try and clean a portion of your harvest for replant the next year following the corn of last year. If Monsatan finds out......They WILL sue you!
> They have paid spy's that watch out for this. *NO SHIT! *
> ...


yep thats in the food INC movie but its true... we have NO seed washers or farmers that save here anymore unless they are really really small family farms. 

you know... i can't think of the name but its coca cola companies bottle water.. they pull it out of city lines.... dasani i think is the name


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## phil k (May 5, 2015)

you have to go to local farm markets and pay 1$ a ear of corn to get good non GMO corn..here


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## chuck estevez (May 5, 2015)

For you newcomers. PK owns a hydro store, if the secret got out that you don't need 5 bottles or even 1 bottle of hyped up overpriced water, he would lose a shit ton of money. Take a look at the cost of the 5 bottles he says you need.
for the cost of the voodoo alone. you can get 2 years of grows with Dyna. 
Marijuana specific nutes, Now that's funny


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## Dr. Who (May 5, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Im not here to be God and judge people morality at all. Im just explaining reasoning why they have so many bottles in their lineup. They just offer them for anyone who wants to dial in specific nutrient profiles etcc...
> 
> They will even tel u if u ask them what the basic shit u need to use for good results and they will tell u right at customer support or any of the division managers that all u need is 5 things from their lineup to grow good flowers.
> 
> ...





pk_boosted2 said:


> First of all I dont work for AN or for anyone for a matter of fact. Im simply stating what I know to be true from my perspective in growing for past decade. Anything I say is my experiences and my knowledge on the facts that I have established during many trial and errors.
> 
> Like I've mentioned millions of times before. Anyone can use anything to grow thse plants and produce flowers. BUT* when I look at my input to output.. Using high end ferts like Canna.. AN. And other "watered down bottle MJ specific nutrients" my results speak for themselves. Yield. Quality. Aroma. Smell and overall plant health always come out better when I use one of these products opposed to the cheaper ones I mention all the time.
> 
> ...


You_ SURE_ as fuck _SOUND_ like you work for them!!!

*READ THIS ! 
I know, I know. The mag is AN's propaganda rag. BUT, this is a good article !!*
https://bigbudsmag.com/scotts-miracle-gro-buys-general-hydroponics-marijuana-growers/


How about you get real and skip damn synthetics all together,, (and *YES* ,, AN is mainly a synthetic line!) and grow a water only organic soil grow and see what it CAN do......It took me a awhile to dial my soil in. But, I can get just the same, if not better results then you with your AN crap!

GROW with nature! NOT synthetic chemicals!

Yes, I still give synthetic advise. I've done it all. I always return to organic water only soil.....

Btw....the synthetic's I point people to.

Hesi (skip the Roots and SuperVit and use a good Kelp extract like Age Old)
Dyna - Gro
Canna (costly)



anzohaze said:


> Get Off Your High Horse. Them bottlers don't spend million you have people here that spend 40 dollars and have many years supply of mutes salts As they make there own. I am organic no bottles no nothing it cost me roughly a 100 dollars for 2 years of run time except electricity. Bottles are for suckers. you spend a 1000 with me and you want to return sure I'll let you return it I just made 995 dollars on you


*FUCKING EXACTLY !!!*

Not to mention that in the next 30 years or so,,,,,the natural mined P will be about used up.....They are already comming up with synthetic P.......Hmm

Everything we see growing has been doing so for eons by nature, in soil, organically......We always try and make things better.....ever notice how often that comes back to bite us in the ass!!

My soil formula is "hot"....It runs at the edge.....I can do what synthetics can and only water when it needs it......Once in a while I do a simple bio tea - water/EWC/molasses 32 - 36 hrs and water with that......You can make fert teas and do that if you want for nutrition organically. You don't have to do water only soil......It's just easier that way!

Doc


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## pk_boosted2 (May 5, 2015)

Dr. Who said:


> You_ SURE_ as fuck _SOUND_ like you work for them!!!
> 
> *READ THIS !
> I know, I know. The mag is AN's propaganda rag. BUT, this is a good article !!*
> ...


You def dont know about AN if u think its all synthetics they have complete organic line ups and its a blend of synthetic and organics.

But that besides the point. I dont even use their lineup right now as i mainly just do organic grows bcuz thats what my dispensaries and customers want.

U can argue all u want im just tired of hearing ppl slam nutrient companies they have never used and r just repeating shit someone else said. I cud give a fck what u use. Im just tellin u that Canna and AN r the two best nutrients u can use to grow w optimal results both yield and quality.

Anyone who tells me they r a top grower and use jacks or dyna gro is laughable. I wont even listen to any of that non sense. Cuz i know what that crap does and its garbage.


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## pk_boosted2 (May 5, 2015)

U get for what u pay for. U want cheap results than use cheap nutrients so do what u want. Ill stick to paying for my watered down bottled nutrients and pullin down premium grade A and getting my 2 lbs a light and im fine w that. 

I know plenty of ppl who tried that dyna gro and jacks and they never went back cuz its doo doo.


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## Dr. Who (May 5, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> U get for what u pay for. U want cheap results than use cheap nutrients so do what u want. Ill stick to paying for my watered down bottled nutrients and pullin down premium grade A and getting my 2 lbs a light and im fine w that.
> 
> I know plenty of ppl who tried that dyna gro and jacks and they never went back cuz its doo doo.


@Uncle Ben 
I would enjoy your comment on this !!

and this



pk_boosted2 said:


> You def dont know about AN if u think its all synthetics they have complete organic line ups and its a blend of synthetic and organics.
> 
> But that besides the point. I dont even use their lineup right now as i mainly just do organic grows bcuz thats what my dispensaries and customers want.
> 
> ...


Yes, they have an organic line.....so? It's still a bottled nutrient. I can do better without it for *FAR* less $ !! AND, as soon as it's synthetic and organic mixed,,,,,,,it sure as hell ain't organic any more!!!!!

So you have a hydro store eh?
You sure seem to want to push 2 of the most expensive synthetics out there......Not selling as well as you would like?
Don't like Hesi?
Or is it more like you don't sell it/haven't tried it!

Doc


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## Dr. Who (May 5, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> U get for what u pay for. U want cheap results than use cheap nutrients so do what u want. Ill stick to paying for my watered down bottled nutrients and pullin down premium grade A and getting my 2 lbs a light and im fine w that.
> 
> I know plenty of ppl who tried that dyna gro and jacks and they never went back cuz its doo doo.


Oh, BTW,,,,,No synthetic grown on the top shelf around here.......If I recall correctly,,,,same thing for Phil K's side of the State.

@phil k 
Am I right on that Phil?

Doc


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## anzohaze (May 5, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> You def dont know about AN if u think its all synthetics they have complete organic line ups and its a blend of Synthetics and organics..snip..


the sell a full line of organics but then you say its a blend of synthetic and organic.

Shut the Fuck up. I am with the dr. I feed nothing as I build a heavily amended soil that I reuse and reuse and reuse. I throw a handful of kelp and a random handful of this or that once maybe 2 times per grow and I use water that's it.. I actually walk into my room with a garden hose hooked up to my catalytic carbon filter and water. Takes me about 5 minutes to water. Turn on water walk it room apply water walk out and done no pH pens ppm meters or bottles. What's easier and grade a smoke and best of all no chemicals


----------



## Alan1313 (May 5, 2015)

anzohaze said:


> the sell a full line of organics but then you say its a blend of synthetic and organic.
> 
> Shut the Fuck up. I am with the dr. I feed nothing as I build a heavily amended soil that I reuse and reuse and reuse. I throw a handful of kelp and a random handful of this or that once maybe 2 times per grow and I use water that's it.. I actually walk into my room with a garden hose hooked up to my catalytic carbon filter and water. Takes me about 5 minutes to water. Turn on water walk it room apply water walk out and done no pH pens ppm meters or bottles. What's easier and grade a smoke and best of all no chemicals


AN is crap - Salt based product line that tastes horrible most of the time cuz its not flushed right.


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## Uncle Ben (May 5, 2015)

Dr. Who said:


> @Uncle Ben
> I would enjoy your comment on this !!
> 
> and this
> ...


He's a misguided sucker bet. As long as you have the 13 necessary elements for hydro and the typical 9 or so for soil, any plant food will do. A fool and his money are soon departed.

Regarding the rather comical subject title, there are no victims, only volunteers.


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## CC Dobbs (May 5, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> To answer ur question easily. Companies like AN developed a lineup so u can create ur nutrient profile specific to the needs of individual strains. They also have nutrients in so many bottles bcuz they understand that in order to have direct control of ur grows u need to be able to use certain amounts of macro and micro nutrients and other elements bcuz every strain grows differently
> 
> There isnt just one bottle of anything that can provide all of the needs of ur plants so they provide everything u need to use in each form so u can apply them as needed.
> 
> ...


You sound like an cannabis industry salesperson. You could not be further from the truth. The reason people buy the overpriced fertilizers form AN, Canna or who ever is because they don't know how to think for themselves and they depend on these companies to tell them what to do. The amount of money these Fert. companies spend on advertising is enormous and it is all paid for by the idiots who buy there crap. Great business model for profits but they make way-overpriced products and sell them to the uninformed.


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## rkymtnman (May 5, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> I grow multiple strains, all with this one bottle, start to finish, ANYTHING made cannabis specific is designed for one thing, to get your $$$$$


I'm eagerly waiting for my FP to get here. would you mind giving me an idea of how much you use/gallon? i've read somewhere between 1/4 to 1/2 tsp/gal. does that sound right? 

once i get mine, i'm gonna use different amounts per gal and kinda get an EC table going. i usually don't go over 1.2EC for previous grows
thanks, rky


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## hydroMD (May 5, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> I grow multiple strains, all with this one bottle, start to finish, ANYTHING made cannabis specific is designed for one thing, to get your $$$$$


Chuck dont even grow dank...

Why take advice from someone rowing mid grade buds?


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## phil k (May 5, 2015)

Dr. Who said:


> Oh, BTW,,,,,No synthetic grown on the top shelf around here.......If I recall correctly,,,,same thing for Phil K's side of the State.
> 
> @phil k
> Am I right on that Phil?
> ...


well .... no .... their top shelfs sometimes in some places are chemical grows.. i know for a fact all the shit at peoples choice unless its brought in from other growers USED to be all general hydro GMB line.... then they switched to using that new single package line... 10k or 1G i can't remember the name..BUT there are some guys here changing that shit ...sticky ypsi he's a good younger guy 90% of his shit is straight organic... and he runs a daily deal 45$ a eighth for one strain.. its always good.. but its been a while since I've been there... i actuallyy have a soil customer that provided 2-3 dispensaries specifically with top shelf strawberry sour diesel ... he never touched pure organics till he ran one of our soil runs... honest to god he couldn't believe the change of his grow quality.... id post his message to me but i don't wanna bump myself.


----------



## phil k (May 5, 2015)

oh man if PK owns a hydro store i see why he's so adamant!! LOL


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## phil k (May 5, 2015)

phil k said:


> oh man if PK owns a hydro store i see why he's so adamant!! LOL


i wouldn't say chemicals suck either... tough spot to be in... either have to be honest... or make money off others misery..


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## phil k (May 5, 2015)

anzohaze said:


> the sell a full line of organics but then you say its a blend of synthetic and organic.
> 
> Shut the Fuck up. I am with the dr. I feed nothing as I build a heavily amended soil that I reuse and reuse and reuse. I throw a handful of kelp and a random handful of this or that once maybe 2 times per grow and I use water that's it.. I actually walk into my room with a garden hose hooked up to my catalytic carbon filter and water. Takes me about 5 minutes to water. Turn on water walk it room apply water walk out and done no pH pens ppm meters or bottles. What's easier and grade a smoke and best of all no chemicals


 

down with chemicals up with people who understand how to amend soil!


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## phil k (May 5, 2015)

i hope PK knows high time just got called out for their BEST IN HYDRO they were taking extra moola from the larger companies to put their lines and shit in the articles... i don't think anyones even begging to comprehend not only what your paying for but what your actually getting. and what these companies are making in order to keep you thinking they are the best. more over if you did know damn near anything about growing... plants... plants biology ... nutrient uptake.. how your nutrients are utilized and why... you wouldnt be that guy who thinks a 600$ chemical line makes your grow better than anyone else.... when in reality yours is much much worse.. your feeding chemicals made from salts and metals that leave massive salt deposit and me talk waste in your soil...

hell you hydro and chemical guys are the reason for spider mites... they are attracted and feed off the waste from your chemicals that sits in your media... i havent dealt with bugs in i don't know how damn long years... up years since i started 100% true organic growing with no chemicals ever.

the only bug we ever get is soil gnats and they only come when you don't know how to water a plant. ... or hell you can amend diatomaceous earth into the soil and fix it too...... screw chemicals...


----------



## Dr. Who (May 5, 2015)

phil k said:


> well .... no .... their top shelfs sometimes in some places are chemical grows.. i know for a fact all the shit at peoples choice unless its brought in from other growers USED to be all general hydro GMB line.... then they switched to using that new single package line... 10k or 1G i can't remember the name..BUT there are some guys here changing that shit ...sticky ypsi he's a good younger guy 90% of his shit is straight organic... and he runs a daily deal 45$ a eighth for one strain.. its always good.. but its been a while since I've been there... i actuallyy have a soil customer that provided 2-3 dispensaries specifically with top shelf strawberry sour diesel ... he never touched pure organics till he ran one of our soil runs... honest to god he couldn't believe the change of his grow quality.... id post his message to me but i don't wanna bump myself.


Well there's an honest answer!

For the 3 others I go into (just to chat with the operator/owners). They over here have gone to only organic top shelf by customer response to products available....There is a good core group of longtime organic only growers. We have a "Co-op" together. It took me a few years to be invited in, because of my synthetic experiments and testing of products for shop owners.....Eventually they came to understand it was just that....Unknown to me I ran into one at a gardening supply and he saw me buying my soil building components in bulk....That changed minds and for years we have been friends. These are the only other guys that make the top shelf around here....I mean don't get me wrong. There is (and I do to purchase for mine) synthetic grown mid shelf of *good* quality and strains! Once in a while, not often. I must admit, That I have to buy a synth grown strain that I do put on my top shelf....._I liked it_ that much. It does sell.....But I can turn "organic" faster.

There are a cpl of other disp. that "specialize" in lower quality stuff that lacks even bag appeal.....$10gr. stores. I haven't been in but once.



phil k said:


> hell you hydro and chemical guys are the reason for spider mites... they are attracted and feed off the waste from your chemicals that sits in your media... i havent dealt with bugs in i don't know how damn long years... up years since i started 100% true organic growing with no chemicals ever.
> 
> the only bug we ever get is soil gnats and they only come when you don't know how to water a plant. ... or hell you can amend diatomaceous earth into the soil and fix it too...... screw chemicals...


Interesting idea,,,,,I'm not sure that is exactly it...but,
I know that a stressed plant will give off a scent (pheromone) that actually attracts mites.....I now that Merit 7 (BAD insecticide) will make a plant _increase_ the output of the pheromone. With that said, What do you think happens when you use it on just a few plants in a grow?.....The other plants must want to hide in fear - LOL.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2015)

rkymtnman said:


> I'm eagerly waiting for my FP to get here. would you mind giving me an idea of how much you use/gallon? i've read somewhere between 1/4 to 1/2 tsp/gal. does that sound right?
> 
> once i get mine, i'm gonna use different amounts per gal and kinda get an EC table going. i usually don't go over 1.2EC for previous grows
> thanks, rky


I run between 500 to 800 ppm every watering


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## chuck estevez (May 5, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> Chuck dont even grow dank...
> 
> Why take advice from someone rowing mid grade buds?


How's that butt, a little hurt,obviously,LMFAO thought you left crybaby


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## pk_boosted2 (May 5, 2015)

CC Dobbs said:


> You sound like an cannabis industry salesperson. You could not be further from the truth. The reason people buy the overpriced fertilizers form AN, Canna or who ever is because they don't know how to think for themselves and they depend on these companies to tell them what to do. The amount of money these Fert. companies spend on advertising is enormous and it is all paid for by the idiots who buy there crap. Great business model for profits but they make way-overpriced products and sell them to the uninformed.


Im actually highly informed. I just dont sit around and talk sht and tell ppl theres only one way to do shit. Dyna gro and jacks might b great for u. Bcuz its cheap, easy to use and u like ur results. But without using "expensive" bottled nutrients like canna - AN - botanicare etcc. U cant sit here and tell ppl its a rip off when u havent even used it before. I been using canna and AN on and off for a decade. And im primarily using botanicare and my own amendments right now going organic route. But I presonally would never use dyna or jacks. Im not gonna sit here and bash u for doing it nor tell u what to do.

Im simply stating my personal experience being that I use these nutrients and get very good results. 

And at the end of the day, I run 8 (1000w) in my grow room right now and I pay roughly 1100$ per run between veg (5/6 week) and bloom (9/10 week). So per light im spending ov average 120$ we'll call it. And im able to get back ov average 2 lbs of medicine. As a caregiver that means I am paying 60$ per pound of premium medicine that I can get anywhere from 3-3800$ per pound depending on market, strain and time of year.

So the cost analysis doesnt make sense that someone is to tell me that nutrients are expensive when I have never found any nutrients to be expensive when u compare ur input to output.

Now maybe if ur a personal grower doing a closet or 1 light yr round, maye than it makes sense to u to try get cheapest shit u can. But products such as dyna and jacks which are lab madr synthetic salts. That shit doesnt compare to the quality or yield imma get running bio canna or botanicare. Ur talkin to someone who knows personally. As ive used and or know my buddies who have and the shit doesnt compare to anything I produce on any level. Not even the savings when comparing the 2. We can argue all day about it. But I feel im right so its not an argument anyone is gonna win against me per say. BOL


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## pk_boosted2 (May 5, 2015)

Dr. Who said:


> Well there's an honest answer!
> 
> For the 3 others I go into (just to chat with the operator/owners). They over here have gone to only organic top shelf by customer response to products available....There is a good core group of longtime organic only growers. We have a "Co-op" together. It took me a few years to be invited in, because of my synthetic experiments and testing of products for shop owners.....Eventually they came to understand it was just that....Unknown to me I ran into one at a gardening supply and he saw me buying my soil building components in bulk....That changed minds and for years we have been friends. These are the only other guys that make the top shelf around here....I mean don't get me wrong. There is (and I do to purchase for mine) synthetic grown mid shelf of *good* quality and strains! Once in a while, not often. I must admit, That I have to buy a synth grown strain that I do put on my top shelf....._I liked it_ that much. It does sell.....But I can turn "organic" faster.
> 
> ...


I dont care how much medicine anyone smokes per day. U cant tell which was done synthetic vs organic i dint care what bs u try to spew. The only ppl who know r the dispensaries bcuz they test for the shit so they can give it to their patients who request or only want something that was organically cultivated. 

The place i provide medicine for has a lab that breaks all that shit down and can even tell u the amount of specific nutrients remaining in ur plants. 

The customers wouldnt know if there was a blind taste test whether or not it was organic or synthetic and I know I cudnt for a fact. Only thing u cud do is guess by the smell and possibly the color of the flowers whether or not u went organic or syntheticand even then it wud b nothing more than an educated guess at best.


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## pk_boosted2 (May 5, 2015)

On top of that fact on pricing. This is with a drain to waste system in coco. 

If u are running DWC - AERO or hydroponics setup the cost probably be roughly have of that since u wont need nearly as many nutrients.


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## Dr. Who (May 5, 2015)

Your right. Dispensaries can tell by the testing! When I get test's back and talk to the testers....they can even tell me (A lot of the time) what brand of nutrient someone used......Even I have learned to tell for the most part.....
I can Guar-en-fuck'in-tee that most of my customers and especially patient's _can_ tell the difference!


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 5, 2015)

Matter of fact recently in the past month or so there have been a few people who have done tests on 4 plants per light under 6 (1000w) lights and in one case the dude ran 1 type of nutrient per light every 4 plants.

Dyna gro came in dead last regardingyield and quality.

You can find the write up on vutra.org and it was well documented and filled with a ton of information on what he did and how he ran the experiment. 

I believe AN - Canna and Earth Juice were 1/2/3 in that order.

Theres also someone else on another forum who did a similar test using: DG - AN - Canna - Botanicare and H&G
They also had similar results with Dyna Gro being in dead last regarding yield and quality with extensive write ups.

And theres a well known MJ dude on youtube who did side by sides of DG - AN - Canna and Heavy 16.

And u can watch from start to finish with final weighs in and up close shots and DG dont even hold a candle to the rest of them.

I been doin this for long time I know what works and I know when ppl copy n paste bs that other ppl say and wanna speak like they know wsp. Anyone who uses DG or Jacks is an amateur and not a serious grower.

Im not talkin mom n pop closet grows for personal use. Im talkin big dog lights and grows. DG is not good products theres alot better out there. Its just cheap and it works


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## skunkd0c (May 5, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> *LOL
> 
> Nuff said,
> 
> ...




dynagro crossed the pond and has a new image/ sales pitch its expensive here, folk sell it as orchid food
i have seen other hydro products in the past turn up as aquarium plant food too with an inflated price lol


http://orchidaccessories.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=159&osCsid=llsupbf6omv62uj0l808b4kic1


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## OGEvilgenius (May 5, 2015)

Hygrozyme - a nice product that can help with a lot of things. Except it's about 100000000000000000000000000% overpriced.

Buy Pondzyme instead. Dirt cheap. Works the same. Or brew worm/compost tea. Even cheaper. 

Clear res - nice product that will help with reservoir problems and with cloning if you don't have chlorine if your tap water. Again, about 100000000000000000000% overpriced. Buy Pool Shock in powdered form - approximately 60% calcium hypochlorite (make sure it's not silicone or anything else). Mix it in at 0.035g/L and you basically have created a litre of Clear res and it cost you about 5 cents instead of 10 bucks or whatever the hell they are charging.

Also, if you're in Canada there's a lineup of nutrients called H.O.G (I think it stands for high output gardening) that is a clone of GH's 3 part. It's also less than half the price. It works identically in my experience with both (sometime ago). I'm not sure if it's available in the states, I suspect there are rules they need to get past if they even want to bother. It's manufactured around Vancouver. Literal clone.


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## hydroMD (May 5, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> How's that butt, a little hurt,obviously,LMFAO thought you left crybaby


Your memes are cute

But seriously ive never seen a single bud of top shelf grown by you... now you suggest dynagrow LMFAO.

Ya got no skill bruh


----------



## Darth Vapour (May 5, 2015)

phil k said:


> i hope PK knows high time just got called out for their BEST IN HYDRO they were taking extra moola from the larger companies to put their lines and shit in the articles... i don't think anyones even begging to comprehend not only what your paying for but what your actually getting. and what these companies are making in order to keep you thinking they are the best. more over if you did know damn near anything about growing... plants... plants biology ... nutrient uptake.. how your nutrients are utilized and why... you wouldnt be that guy who thinks a 600$ chemical line makes your grow better than anyone else.... when in reality yours is much much worse.. your feeding chemicals made from salts and metals that leave massive salt deposit and me talk waste in your soil...
> 
> hell you hydro and chemical guys are the reason for spider mites... they are attracted and feed off the waste from your chemicals that sits in your media... i havent dealt with bugs in i don't know how damn long years... up years since i started 100% true organic growing with no chemicals ever.
> 
> the only bug we ever get is soil gnats and they only come when you don't know how to water a plant. ... or hell you can amend diatomaceous earth into the soil and fix it too...... screw chemicals...



Spidermites ?? lol holy crap man read what you wrote hahaha last time i checked spider mites feed off of plants then you mention only thing in organics is gnats interesting i grow both ways and have had gnats in chemical soiless mediums 
but hey while were on topic what about root aphids ,, snails , slugs cut worms catipillars shall i carry on ??? 
what is organic ??? and to give you a heads up insects play a crucial role in real organics 
only difference between chem and organics is one is readily available and other needs to be broken down in order for plants to uptake its nutrient source at the end of the day does the plant know the difference ????? .. NPK IS NPK 
People mention organic grown medical marijuana here PROVE IT ... is it certified..... if not then blow it out your snot box its not organically grown ... TMU know one is organic certified least not yet ... but Hey if you want to really get down n nasty i can provide you with actual certed organic farms that use chem pesticides allowed ??? you would be better off not to go there though trust me on that ...
I remember reading years ago where they had this weed out at a cup or something and they rolled it all up and started smoking it guy saying it was organic grown owe they were like dam this tastes so good blah blah blah ,, sad truth is it was grown but when they actually said it was grown with chem ,, the looked pretty fucking stupid


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## hydroMD (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> i hope PK knows high time just got called out for their BEST IN HYDRO they were taking extra moola from the larger companies to put their lines and shit in the articles... i don't think anyones even begging to comprehend not only what your paying for but what your actually getting. and what these companies are making in order to keep you thinking they are the best. more over if you did know damn near anything about growing... plants... plants biology ... nutrient uptake.. how your nutrients are utilized and why... you wouldnt be that guy who thinks a 600$ chemical line makes your grow better than anyone else.... when in reality yours is much much worse.. your feeding chemicals made from salts and metals that leave massive salt deposit and me talk waste in your soil...
> 
> hell you hydro and chemical guys are the reason for spider mites... they are attracted and feed off the waste from your chemicals that sits in your media... i havent dealt with bugs in i don't know how damn long years... up years since i started 100% true organic growing with no chemicals ever.
> 
> the only bug we ever get is soil gnats and they only come when you don't know how to water a plant. ... or hell you can amend diatomaceous earth into the soil and fix it too...... screw chemicals...


Lmao

Mites only eat chemically grow plants? 


Only thing you have to worry about in organics are gnats? 


Wtf you talking about!!! 

Thrips, mites, aphids, gnats etc will grow on any plant, organic or not lol. 

I guess mites have been chasing down chemical ferts in nature the last million years

Idiot


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## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> Your memes are cute
> 
> But seriously ive never seen a single bud of top shelf grown by you... now you suggest dynagrow LMFAO.
> 
> Ya got no skill bruh


you are a whiney crybaby bitch. guess what brah, no one cares,lmfao go post another crybaby thread about how you got your feelings hurt and youre leaving this site. But guess what, here you are,back again. what an idiot.


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## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

WAAAAAHHHHHH!!!


https://www.rollitup.org/t/fuck-you-riu-and-every-gay-thats-ruined-you.866716/


what a little crybaby bitch


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## phil k (May 6, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> Lmao
> 
> Mites only eat chemically grow plants?
> 
> ...


wholly shit READ THE DAMN post properly ...first of mites are attracted to certain chemical smells released from plants when they are weak and dying.... when people grow with chemicals they are 90% of the time stressing the grows to their max.. which in return releases the chemicals that attracts mites.. AND there are some chemicals/salts/metals that are used in our chemicals base feed, that replicates the smells our weak and dying plants release that attracts the damn mites... please don't sit and try to talk to me like your running 100% pure zero chemical grows... and have been for years ... I'm so sick of arguing how things work with people that only know one or two damn things about growing... how bugs feed and live and what irritates me more is people with little to no college education in plant sciences.


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## phil k (May 6, 2015)

and no in 5 years since i haven't touched a single chemical other than clonex for my clones... i have never one single time had a bug issue outside of soil mites... i don't think your understanding the statement.. people that run chemicals are always stressing their plants.. which release pheromones that attract bugs to weaker plants.... they are always leaving excess waste and foods inside their root or soil zones... ALL OF WHICH not only attracts but allows bugs to feed and thrive..... when all i do i water my plants with freaking water and they never stress never have excess waste sitting in the soils... NO I'm not going to have a breeding ground for bugs and other insects that people do who grow with chemicals.

sorry if you took offense to that statement but its true. people who grow with chemicals indoor are going to face and have more bugs and more variety of bugs than anyone growing with amended soil programs... its the bottom line.


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## phil k (May 6, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Spidermites ?? lol holy crap man read what you wrote hahaha last time i checked spider mites feed off of plants then you mention only thing in organics is gnats interesting i grow both ways and have had gnats in chemical soiless mediums
> but hey while were on topic what about root aphids ,, snails , slugs cut worms catipillars shall i carry on ???
> what is organic ??? and to give you a heads up insects play a crucial role in real organics
> only difference between chem and organics is one is readily available and other needs to be broken down in order for plants to uptake its nutrient source at the end of the day does the plant know the difference ????? .. NPK IS NPK
> ...


read the post i just put up


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## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

great, another salesman with a product to push putting down SYNTHETIC nutes. guess what MR.organic? plants use "organic" and Inorganic minerals.
funny, my plants are green and healthy, they don't look stressed and look forward to a small feed of dyna gro


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## phil k (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> read the post i just put up


and were not talking about snails.. and shit your not getting inside your indoor grow.. and if you are your the idiot ... I'm talking soley about bugs that are generally found on indoor pot grows...


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## phil k (May 6, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> great, another salesman with a product to push putting down SYNTHETIC nutes. guess what MR.organic? plants use "organic" and Inorganic minerals.
> funny, my plants are green and healthy, they don't look stressed and look forward to a small feed of dyna gro


thats the point your not stressing your plants!!! why would you have issues... I'm not saying every fucking person who uses chemicals has bugs god damn.... read the full posts


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## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> thats the point your not stressing your plants!!! why would you have issues... I'm not saying every fucking person who uses chemicals has bugs god damn.... read the full posts


"when people grow with chemicals they are 90% of the time stressing the grows to their max"

only 90% of them, not ALL,lol..

but hey, i aerate my water, does that cut me down a few %?


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## phil k (May 6, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> "when people grow with chemicals they are 90% of the time stressing the grows to their max"
> 
> only 90% of them, not ALL,lol..


HAHAHA well i guess i should have said 90% of newer growers i mean i hope everyone who knows how to properly grow wouldn't take offense to that..you shouldn't.. but i hope everyone gets what i mean by how they are attracted more through chemical grows than any amended grow....


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## phil k (May 6, 2015)

and just to say it before someone wants to throw it in my face YES OBVIOUSLY someone who doesn't know how to grow properly CLEARY can have fucking bug issues of any kind with amended grow too... my point still being more bug issues are going to come when you run chemical lines than if you run amended soils..


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## pk_boosted2 (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> oh man if PK owns a hydro store i see why he's so adamant!! LOL


I dont own a hydro store! Geez man. I was a angel investor in one in which I helped a buddy of mine out and I got out a few months ago when I was paid back on my loan. 

Secondly, it really doesnt matter if I owned one or not. Like I mentioned before the store I was involved with didnt even carry Canna we werent allowed to. They had another store who had been carrying it for 10 years and r shop was too close in proximity to them. Canna has restricions on saturating the market and they run really good business so he couldnt get the contract to become a dealer.

So lemme ask this. And I would even tell ppl at the store who would ask what I like to use Im an honest dude and I tell em straight up I like Canna. So if Im telling people how good Canna is but I dont even have the shit at the store why would I do that? LOL

All u guys do is try come up w/ excuses instead of listening to someone who has experience and is giving u facts. I love the fact that ppl think DYNA GRO & Jacks Classic is good nutrients. Cuz then when I come around w my runs and my work it just looks that much better lol.

All nutrients ARE NOT created equal. Theres been many articles, journals and scientific analysis of how nutrients are made, processed, derived, extracted and chelated. If u think that u can mimic or go the cheap route and get the same results go ahead but ur only hurting yourselves not me so i dont care. 

Im simply giving u insight and knowledge from years of experience. You can choose to do whatever u want w the information. Ive done side by sides, Ive experimented and tried almost every nutrient lineup on the market and the top 3 hands down right now in each category that u can use regardless of what the few ppl on here wanna say is: 

*Synthetic: Canna - AN - Rock Nutrients (Australia based co.)
Complete is also very good lineup but its fairly new not many places know about or carry it (Based out of Florida - mix of AN & Canna - made by a scientist from AN who started his own company)

*Organic: Bio Bizz - Botanicare - & GH Gen Organics

Bottom of the barrel is: Dyna-Gro - Dutch Masters - Jack's Classic - Atami - Humboldt County

Theres plenty of others and they are all either small companies or not even worth mentioning.


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## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> I dont own a hydro store! Geez man. I was a angel investor in one in which I helped a buddy of mine out and I got out a few months ago when I was paid back on my loan.
> 
> Secondly, it really doesnt matter if I owned one or not. Like I mentioned before the store I was involved with didnt even carry Canna we werent allowed to. They had another store who had been carrying it for 10 years and r shop was too close in proximity to them. Canna has restricions on saturating the market and they run really good business so he couldnt get the contract to become a dealer.
> 
> ...


and AGAIN, you haven't noticed not 1 person is buying your BS.? a real grower can grow with Miracle grow. and a REAL grower knows this. Buying bottles of 90% water is for newbs, but you keep on with your superior results, I've seen your schwag.


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 6, 2015)

Like I mentioned a million times! If Dyna-Gro and Jack's was so fckin cheap and so good, than how come no facilities who grow commercially use their lineups? 
How come almost all big time industrial facilities indoors, green houses, disoensaries etc.. Continue to use Canna - AN - H&G and GH 3 part for a majority of all big grows??

If ppl r trying to make money at end of the day and these products r so cheap wudnt it make sense for them to strictly use Dyna or Jacks? Absolutety!! BUT THEY DONT!! And it is for a reason because the sh*t is an inferior product, its not designed or made for MJ and it doesnt produce quality flowers or provide high yielding results.

Do what u want I dont give a sh*t like I said ur only hurting urselves not me. U wanna listen to other ppl who bash companies and say its over priced when they never even used the products in the first place I find it to be hillarious!

So go out and spend 20$ on ur gardens buy Dyna-Gro its the fckin best out there, I love this sh*t!! Lol


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## pk_boosted2 (May 6, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> and AGAIN, you haven't noticed not 1 person is buying your BS.? a real grower can grow with Miracle grow. and a REAL grower knows this. Buying bottles of 90% water is for newbs, but you keep on with your superior results, I've seen your schwag.


Ok


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 6, 2015)

I dont need anyone to believe me. Everyone can kp using Dyna-Gro on here thats fine w me. Im not here to sell anyone anything Im just providing the knowledge u do whatever u want w the information it doesnt bother me at all.

Everyone went to school some ppl go to Harvard and some ppl drop out like you.

Its what u do w what the teachers w degrees tell u, some ppl learn and experiment and try things for themselves.While other ppl become followers and get by being mediocre at best.

Ive learned through both means of reading, expriementing, trial and error etc... Im just telling the truth u pay for what u get. So kp paying 20$ for ur grows and get ur mediocre results.

Ill pay the money and get the best results its that simple


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## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

let's see
PK, owns,works has a vested interest in a hydro store and is here pushing MJ specific nutes
Phil,owns,sells has a vested interest in organic soil and is here pushing that.
HMMM,


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## a mongo frog (May 6, 2015)

Please don't forget about this...........


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## phil k (May 6, 2015)

i think he was just joking with you... but look is canna good.. fine yes.. but the point isn't is it good.. the point is you can go get something like humboldts oness program and have the same results at half the cost.. I'm not going to sit and say all chemicals are equal i already said some are extracted from higher end materials and some are made much much cheaper in labs.. i mean look at neem oils.... dynagro sell neem oil a big ass bottle for 8$..... now einstein oil is 20$ for a little ass bottle... WHY?? because dynagro obtains their neem oil from different exaction systems... mostly heat processing and they also uses 2nd ..3rd...4th extractions that aren't super clean and pure and they mix them together in one bottle selling it cheap.. einsten oil only uses first run extraction and i believe they cold press extract which gives them even less material from the base material. 
so is einstein oil better? yes technically their product is purer and cleaner than any other.. but is me putting einstein oil on my plant going to make my grow better than if i used dyna gro oil?? no its not... 
its not about what chemicals are the absolute best. its about what works and provides the nutrients and needs your plant has...



pk_boosted2 said:


> I dont own a hydro store! Geez man. I was a angel investor in one in which I helped a buddy of mine out and I got out a few months ago when I was paid back on my loan.
> 
> Secondly, it really doesnt matter if I owned one or not. Like I mentioned before the store I was involved with didnt even carry Canna we werent allowed to. They had another store who had been carrying it for 10 years and r shop was too close in proximity to them. Canna has restricions on saturating the market and they run really good business so he couldnt get the contract to become a dealer.
> 
> ...


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2015)

Cheapest way to grow is no-till soil. Best plant amendment is fresh vermicompost. 

Doesn't matter, since Hydro is very attractive to many, and good for them. It's not for me but that's what's cool about choice and preferences. 

Some people like Judo, others like karate. Groovy


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> I dont need anyone to believe me. Everyone can kp using Dyna-Gro on here thats fine w me. Im not here to sell anyone anything Im just providing the knowledge u do whatever u want w the information it doesnt bother me at all.
> 
> Everyone went to school some ppl go to Harvard and some ppl drop out like you.
> 
> ...


well now i have to call stupid... why would you say ill pay to get the best results..... 
ill put it as simple as this... in a 5 gallon indoor short veg i hit 6 oz .... i put 20$ worth of my soil into that grow for all my veg.. all my flower.. i never do shit but water my plant.. and i can GUARANTEE YOU that your in no way going to match my quality with canna... but further more it generally AT MOST (aside from electrical) costs me 5$ to produce an ounce.. now please tell me you'll pay 40$ to produce the same shit with less quality less flavors and i promise less of a high...and ANYONE who is truly organic can attest to that..


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

Rrog said:


> Cheapest way to grow is no-till soil. Best plant amendment is fresh vermicompost.
> 
> Doesn't matter, since Hydro is very attractive to many, and good for them. It's not for me but that's what's cool about choice and preferences.
> 
> Some people like Judo, others like karate. Groovy


hey have you heard of the HUMAN SHIT being put into some composts now??? I've heard of big companies using that ... but its a fucking big billion dollar industry here... there was just a recent VICE episode about it.. the cities are selling our human shit to fertilizer companies.... i have to look up what they call it they have a funny name for it.


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

AHH biosolids


----------



## a mongo frog (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> well now i have to call stupid... why would you say ill pay to get the best results.....
> ill put it as simple as this... in a 5 gallon indoor short veg i hit 6 oz .... i put 20$ worth of my soil into that grow for all my veg.. all my flower.. i never do shit but water my plant.. and i can GUARANTEE YOU that your in no way going to match my quality with canna... but further more it generally AT MOST (aside from electrical) costs me 5$ to produce an ounce.. now please tell me you'll pay 40$ to produce the same shit with less quality less flavors and i promise less of a high...and ANYONE who is truly organic can attest to that..


Dude your so great. Your bud is so great. No one will ever be able to touch your bud quality....... Fucking crazy talk friend. Happy gardening!!!!!


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Dude your so great. Your bud is so great. No one will ever be able to touch your bud quality....... Fucking crazy talk friend. Happy gardening!!!!!


LOL...... yeah thats what i said alright!!


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

what the hell is with people these days......


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> what the hell is with people these days......


they are just so FULL of themselves.


----------



## a mongo frog (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> what the hell is with people these days......


Seriously?


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

i don't know shit.. i didn't say that at all i don't think you got the point of the statement..


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> LOL...... yeah thats what i said alright!!





phil k said:


> what the hell is with people these days......


i dont talk to amateur ppl who do closet grows or take advice from anyone talkin about harvesting 6 ounces

Im in the big leagues ur a rookie. Go to the beginner thread


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

it sure as hell wasn't that I'm great and my buds great and no one can beat it


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

but thank you i am pretty great!!!


----------



## a mongo frog (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> it sure as hell wasn't that I'm great and my buds great and no one can beat it


Well then start being kind to people. It makes for better bud quality, and that is a know shit.....


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 6, 2015)

Hit me back when u put up 6-8 (1000w bulbs) than we can talk about yields.

I get 6 ounces+ per plant i dont need to be told that humboldt is good when its a BS line up.

If i grow organic i would just use The Bio-Canna lineup or H&G Bio1

U dont know what ur talkin about so go to the newbie thread and take ur nonsense elsewhere


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> but thank you i am pretty great!!!


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

hahaha


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Hit me back when u put up 6-8 (1000w bulbs) than we can talk about yields.
> 
> I get 6 ounces+ per plant i dont need to be told that humboldt is good when its a BS line up.
> 
> ...







lol


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Hit me back when u put up 6-8 (1000w bulbs) than we can talk about yields.
> 
> I get 6 ounces+ per plant i dont need to be told that humboldt is good when its a BS line up.
> 
> ...


oh please....pull your little dingy out and wave a bit more to feel big


----------



## a mongo frog (May 6, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Hit me back when u put up 6-8 (1000w bulbs) than we can talk about yields.
> 
> I get 6 ounces+ per plant i dont need to be told that humboldt is good when its a BS line up.
> 
> ...


Don't talk like this to people please. There is hobby gardens on this site that would smash your quality. You must know that.


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

and you get 6 ounces paying up the wazoo for chemicals.. you have to balance those chemicals.. use RO water which costs even more to produce... i get 6 oz for 20$ ... end story ur getting sold snake oil...


----------



## Dr. Who (May 6, 2015)

WOW,,,,Just fuck'in wow!

Someone needs to go back to their grow room and play with their synthetic crap and shut the fuck up.....


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Don't talk like this to people please. There is hobby gardens on this site that would smash your quality. You must know that.


yeah seriously.. shit theres people out there none of us see or ever will thats smashing all of us


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Don't talk like this to people please. There is hobby gardens on this site that would smash your quality. You must know that.


haha i was going to say something i had to delete it


pk_boosted2 said:


> Hit me back when u put up 6-8 (1000w bulbs) than we can talk about yields.
> 
> I get 6 ounces+ per plant i dont need to be told that humboldt is good when its a BS line up.
> 
> ...


and what is it 6 or 8 that i have to beat .. or don't you know how many bulbs your own setup is?


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> hey have you heard of the HUMAN SHIT being put into some composts now??? I've heard of big companies using that ... but its a fucking big billion dollar industry here... there was just a recent VICE episode about it.. the cities are selling our human shit to fertilizer companies.... i have to look up what they call it they have a funny name for it.


WTF kind of torpedo is that? Billions of dollars in human poop... lol

What kind of BS agenda are you "spreading"


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

Rrog said:


> WTF kind of torpedo is that? Billions of dollars in human poop... lol
> 
> What kind of BS agenda are you "spreading"


wouldn't that be HS= human shit?lol


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

Rrog said:


> WTF kind of torpedo is that? Billions of dollars in human poop... lol
> 
> What kind of BS agenda are you "spreading"


hahaahah lol.....its a billion dollar a year industry in the US right now they are taking human shit and putting it into the composts we use on our foods and plants and shit.. its getting to be so known and prevelatent companies are advertising they do not use BIOSOLIDS in their mixes...


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## phil k (May 6, 2015)

i guess its not as bad as japan.. they turn shit into steaks... and were fucking eating it


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

LOL ...like someone posted in another thread.... third world problems


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2015)

^^^ why does this sound like some sort of false flag on your part ^^^

sounds like your contention is that compost shouldn't be used.


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

Rrog said:


> ^^^ why does this sound like some sort of false flag on your part ^^^
> 
> sounds like your contention is that compost shouldn't be used.


i don't have a ounce of compost in my product... worm castings is it as far as a "compost" is concerned... everything else is soley amendment based 

but its not in every compost.. probably little to none in our grow stores but its being used all over and in big companies products like i think miracle grow soil has or had bio solids in it..


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2015)

Whatev- your whole Japanese shit sandwich argument makes me not want to read further.


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> i don't have a ounce of compost in my product... worm castings is it as far as a "compost" is concerned... everything else is soley amendment based
> 
> but its not in every compost.. probably little to none in our grow stores but its being used all over and in big companies products like i think miracle grow soil has or had bio solids in it..


theres a lot of food farmers and shit that use it too on our crops.. 


Rrog said:


> Whatev- your whole Japanese shit sandwich argument makes me not want to read further.


food for thought!!


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2015)

Anyway, folks like to spend the $$ on bottle feeding and tweak plant growing- groovy. Nice safe hobby.

I have other shit to do, so I've hired a few billion microbes and a few thousand worms to help me. Set and forget is more my speed. And I pocket the cash savings


----------



## hydroMD (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> wholly shit READ THE DAMN post properly ...first of mites are attracted to certain chemical smells released from plants when they are weak and dying.... when people grow with chemicals they are 90% of the time stressing the grows to their max.. which in return releases the chemicals that attracts mites.. AND there are some chemicals/salts/metals that are used in our chemicals base feed, that replicates the smells our weak and dying plants release that attracts the damn mites... please don't sit and try to talk to me like your running 100% pure zero chemical grows... and have been for years ... I'm so sick of arguing how things work with people that only know one or two damn things about growing... how bugs feed and live and what irritates me more is people with little to no college education in plant sciences.


Lol I have my education, and you? 


Im laughing at the fact you say mites are the fault of those using chemicals indoors. 

As if mites are only attracted to chemically grown plants. 

Stress hormones may be picked up by mites, but even TLO plants create auxin and other stress induced toxins...


And yeah... ive grown chem free with dry amendments for a long time as well as hydro... so I can say I have experience chemical free. 

Still can get any pest under the sun in organics. Your little crustations and azomite mix in your soils might deter a lot of things, butbya can still get colonized.

Id say a messy grow area is the culprit not the nutes. By that's just my uneducated stance


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## Rrog (May 6, 2015)

System A- Bottle fed plants without the normal Plant / Microbe relationship

System B- Natural soil (no bottles) and a normal Plant / Microbe relationship

System B will naturally have a better immune response. Especially with Vermicompost.


----------



## a mongo frog (May 6, 2015)

Rrog said:


> System A- Bottle fed plants without the normal Plant / Microbe relationship
> 
> System B- Natural soil (no bottles) and a normal Plant / Microbe relationship
> 
> System A will naturally have a better immune response. Especially with Vermicompost.


So your saying both styles of gardening are wonderful?


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2015)

Thanks- I corrected my banter


----------



## a mongo frog (May 6, 2015)

Is why your well valued on this site. Positive Person........................


----------



## twistedwords (May 6, 2015)

How are nutrient companies stealing your money OP? You really don't make an sense. Not everyone in this world is going to go out and make their own nutrients. Plus making your own nutrients is not the easiest thing to do or get right as you do need some chemistry background to do it correctly.

It is comparable to anything you buy in any market. For example are you saying that people are getting stolen from by going out to restaurants and eating instead of making their own food? It is the same thing.

I don't think that on average $25.00 for a quart of nutrient in either a combined two part or one part system is breaking your bank and if it is then you shouldn't be growing in hydroponics to begin with as hydroponics is not cheap to do.


----------



## a mongo frog (May 6, 2015)

twistedwords said:


> How are nutrient companies stealing your money OP? You really don't make an sense. Not everyone in this world is going to go out and make their own nutrients. Plus making your own nutrients is not the easiest thing to do or get right as you do need some chemistry background to do it correctly.
> 
> It is comparable to anything you buy in any market. For example are you saying that people are getting stolen from by going out to restaurants and eating instead of making their own food? It is the same thing.
> 
> I don't think that on average $25.00 for a quart of nutrient in either a combined two part or one part system is breaking your bank and if it is then you shouldn't be growing in hydroponics to begin with as hydroponics is not cheap to do.


Wow Wow Wow, great points!!! But a little harsh there towards the end....


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2015)

twistedwords said:


> Not everyone in this world is going to go out and make their own nutrients. Plus making your own nutrients is not the easiest thing to do or get right as you do need some chemistry background to do it correctly.


I would disagree. You don't need a chem degree to mix soil


----------



## twistedwords (May 6, 2015)

Rrog said:


> I would disagree. You don't need a chem degree to mix soil



We are not talking about soil now are we?


----------



## a mongo frog (May 6, 2015)

twistedwords said:


> We are not talking about soil now are we?


No he's talking about making nutrients.


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2015)

Just sayin'


----------



## Darth Vapour (May 6, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Well then start being kind to people. It makes for better bud quality, and that is a know shit.....


 Good post Mongo
the thing is Arrogance You got two clowns fighting over which is better rather then debating which has plus an minuses on either side of the fence 
guess what is MacDonald's killing millions, is pharma killing people the answer is YES 
Phil i been around the block there son and some members know me i use both methods in my closet hahaha and in green houses, in my time.
Well maybe not closets you are claiming some wild things here , 90 percent of chem grown is stressed ??? listen to your self man , really ,,, 
Slowly but surely your hanging your self dude simmer the hell down both of you lol 

I got a question for you Phil do you support Monsanto ??? do you own vehicle ??? chances are you do support Monsanto

Remember back when you watched The Matrix for the first time and ran down to the store to buy sunglasses and a trench coat? There were so many sunglass brands to choose from: Oakley, Ray-Ban, Revo, Vogue, DKNY, and if you must have only the best, $500 designer glasses from Prada and BVLGARI (which has that V-instead-of-a-U thing, so you know it's classy like ancient Rome). All sunglasses are made by luxottica
Well, at least you get to pick between stores, right? If the people at the LensCrafters are being dicks while selling you different glasses all made by Luxottica, you can show them what you think of that by taking your business across the mall to the Pearle Vision. Or maybe the Sears or Target optical departments. Except that they are also all owned by Luxottica. Just for the sake of argument let's say that you're not a squinty-eyed nerd, so you pass by the prescription shops and go right to the Sunglass Hut. You guessed it. Luxottica.

Like an omnipresent starchy deity, corn is everywhere. Savvy consumers know that it doesn't just stop at corn on the cob. Word has gotten out that corn syrup turns up in almost every candy and soda, and is as addictive as crack. But how about Febreze? Hand sanitizers? Ethanol car fuel? That's all corn, too. Making rubber tires? You'll need corn starch. Spark plugs? Corn. Drywall? Corn. You can't build a car or a house without corn.
Whoever controls the corn controls ... maybe not the universe, but a lot of money. And the king of American corn is Monsanto, a biotech company. Unlike evil movie biotech companies -- with their dubious business models of inventing mutants or viruses that kill everyone -- Monsanto built their empire on a pretty boring one two punch: weed killer and seeds.
The weed killer, Roundup, is the biggest selling herbicide in the world. The seeds are genetically engineered corn seeds that are immune to Roundup. If you want to grow corn and kill weeds that hurt the corn, Monsanto has the best product on the market by a mile. That's why 80 percent of all corn planted in the U.S. goes into the ground with Monsanto's trademark on it.
But plants will be plants, and make more seeds, so the farmers don't have to keep buying Monsanto seeds year after year, right? Don't be silly. Monsanto's not going to let their money run away like that. Their first plan was to incorporate something called a "Terminator" (otherwise known as the "let's just stop pretending we're not evil") gene that automatically sterilizes the plant so it can't make any more seeds. Then farmers have to buy new seeds every time they plant, just like nature intended.

People objected to this quite a bit for some reason, forcing Monsanto to back down and instead just make farmers sign a contract saying that they won't use the seeds the plants make ... or else. So instead of screwing farmers with a terminatorgene, they're just asking the farmers to agree to screw themselves.

So the next time you're deciding between a Coke or a Pepsi (or between a Firestone or a Goodyear), know that whichever way you go, you're buying Monsanto. You're welcome!


----------



## hydroMD (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> and no in 5 years since i haven't touched a single chemical other than clonex for my clones... i have never one single time had a bug issue outside of soil mites... i don't think your understanding the statement.. people that run chemicals are always stressing their plants.. which release pheromones that attract bugs to weaker plants.... they are always leaving excess waste and foods inside their root or soil zones... ALL OF WHICH not only attracts but allows bugs to feed and thrive..... when all i do i water my plants with freaking water and they never stress never have excess waste sitting in the soils... NO I'm not going to have a breeding ground for bugs and other insects that people do who grow with chemicals.
> 
> sorry if you took offense to that statement but its true. people who grow with chemicals indoor are going to face and have more bugs and more variety of bugs than anyone growing with amended soil programs... its the bottom line.


Your an idiot. True organics contain a multitude of bugs and pests.... as they all are part of the soil food web. 

If your running TLO indoors you dont have environmental control on bugs such as dew and colder temps. 


With your stance, even your organic plants are being stressed by nitrogen uptake because im sure your aware there is no such thing as organic nitrogen...

Thereforethese chemicals must be stressing your plant and attracting bugs to your garden

Smh

Please, go crawl back under your rock.


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> Your an idiot. True organics contain a multitude of bugs and pests.... as they all are part of the soil food web.
> 
> If your running TLO indoors you dont have environmental control on bugs such as dew and colder temps.
> 
> ...


are you kidding whats urea?


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

kelp meal is another organic nitrogen.. soy bean meal and feather meal are other large organic nitrogen sources


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

no such thing as organic nitrogen........ where are you in space?


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

PRIMER ON NITROGEN

*What is Nitrogen?*

Nitrogen is a naturally occurring element that is essential for growth and reproduction in both plants and animals. It is found in amino acids that make up proteins, in nucleic acids, that comprise the hereditary material and life’s blueprint for all cells, and in many other organic and inorganic compounds. In addition, nitrogen comprises about 80% of the Earth's atmosphere.

*The Forms of Nitrogen
*
To appreciate the intricacies of nitrogen loading to coastal waters, some understanding of how nitrogen reacts chemically in the environment may be useful. Nitrogen is an element that can combine with itself or with other elements to make different compounds. For instance nitrogen gas,N2, is a compound made when two nitrogen atoms form a chemical bond. Itmakes up about 80% of the atmosphere, while oxygen gas, O2, makes up a little less than 20% of the atmosphere. So nitrogen gas is very common and plentiful. However, only a specialized group of bacteria, and industrial fertilizer manufacture, can "fix" this largely inert compound into biologically useful nitrogen compounds. Fertilizer production now exceeds natural nitrogen fixation in making N2 available to the biosphere. 

*Nitrogen in Living Things
*
Nitrogen is a component of amino acids and urea. Amino acids are the building blocks of all proteins. Proteins comprise not only structural components such as muscle, tissue and organs, but also enzymes and hormones essential for the functioning of all living things. Urea is a byproduct of protein digestion. We use the term "organic nitrogen" to describe a nitrogen compound that had its origin in living material. The nitrogen in protein and urea is organic nitrogen. Organic nitrogen can enter septic systems as bodily wastes, discarded food material, or as components of cleaning agents.


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

anything from plants to people have nitrogen when they die and decompose they produce nitrogen.. how do you think trees in forests grow ... a magical nitrogen fairy


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> Your an idiot. True organics contain a multitude of bugs and pests.... as they all are part of the soil food web.
> 
> If your running TLO indoors you dont have environmental control on bugs such as dew and colder temps.
> 
> ...


jesus worm castings.. crab meal... any compost.. urea ... kelp meal.. feather meal... soybean meal.. cricket shit meal.. all are organic nitrogen source.. not to mention probably hundreds more I'm not thinking of...


----------



## hydroMD (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> jesus worm castings.. crab meal... any compost.. urea ... kelp meal.. feather meal... soybean meal.. cricket shit meal.. all are organic nitrogen source.. not to mention probably hundreds more I'm not thinking of...


Lol, nitrogen itself is a chemical element. It does not exist organically in soluble form.

It must be biologically broken down into ammonium or nitrates (Chemicals, the exact one in synthetic fertilizers)

Only difference is natural chelation vs synthetic. 

So yes, with your point of view your plants are stressed and are attracting mites.


You dont need to copy paste info for me, but you should do a little more digging for your own sake


----------



## hydroMD (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> jesus worm castings.. crab meal... any compost.. urea ... kelp meal.. feather meal... soybean meal.. cricket shit meal.. all are organic nitrogen source.. not to mention probably hundreds more I'm not thinking of...


Everything you listed here will be turned into nitrates or ammonium through the same process (chelation) that the nitrogen in chemical ferts are. Thats my point. 

So the end result after the enzymes from your bacteria/fungus and root exudates break down these "organic" nitrogen sources, you are left with the exact same CHEMICAL that is in a bottle of nutrients. 


Which (according to you) means your plants are stressed and mites are on the way. (BS)


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> *Your an idiot*. True organics contain a multitude of bugs and pests.... as they all are part of the soil food web.
> 
> If your running TLO indoors you dont have environmental control on bugs such as dew and colder temps.
> 
> ...


nothing cracks me up more.


----------



## a mongo frog (May 6, 2015)

My god! How could he have gotten spider mites so fast? This fucking gardening hobby is fucking scary shit friends.....


----------



## hydroMD (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> no such thing as organic nitrogen........ where are you in space?





chuck estevez said:


> nothing cracks me up more.


But capitalization remains a moot topic. Lol. Grammar nazi is here! If you need spelling advice, pm chuck. 

If you need grow advice, pm anyone else

*ignored*


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> But capitalization remains a moot topic. Lol. Grammar nazi is here! If you need spelling advice, pm chuck.
> 
> If you need grow advice, pm anyone else
> 
> *ignored*


if *YOU"RE *going to call people idiots, try not making yourself look like one while doing it.

also, if you make a thread crying and saying *YOU"RE going to leave, please,don't come back and pretend YOU'RE cool.





*


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> Everything you listed here will be turned into nitrates or ammonium through the same process (chelation) that the nitrogen in chemical ferts are. Thats my point.
> 
> So the end result after the enzymes from your bacteria/fungus and root exudates break down these "organic" nitrogen sources, you are left with the exact same CHEMICAL that is in a bottle of nutrients.
> 
> ...





hydroMD said:


> But capitalization remains a moot topic. Lol. Grammar nazi is here! If you need spelling advice, pm chuck.
> 
> If you need grow advice, pm anyone else
> 
> *ignored*



so lets just get this straight before we go on .. nitrogen is nitrogen.. and there is no organic nitrogen.. right ? thats your scientific input? i just wanna be clear


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

*Here's the scoop on chemical and organic fertilizers*
April 30, 2008


CORVALLIS, Ore. – Fertilizers provide one or more of the chemical elements necessary for plant growth and development.



Organic fertilizers such as manures, compost or bone meal are derived directly from plant or animal sources. Inorganic fertilizers such as ammonium sulfate or ammonium phosphate are often called commercial or synthetic fertilizers, because they go through some manufacturing process, although many of them come from naturally occurring mineral deposits.



Neither type is better in every situation, because there are advantages and disadvantages to using either one, according to Ross Penhallegon, horticulturist with the Oregon State University Extension Service.



Inorganic fertilizers usually contain only a few nutrients – generally nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium and some sulfur, either singly or in combination, explained Penhallegon. These nutrients are in a concentrated form readily available to plants. However, since they are lost from the soil quickly, you may have to apply it several times during the growing season unless you use a specially formulated, slow-release type.



Some nutrients, such as nitrate, are quickly available for uptake by plant roots. If you need only a certain element such as nitrogen and want it to be quickly available to your plants, an inorganic fertilizer such as ammonium nitrate might be in order.



Organic fertilizers usually contain many plant nutrients in low concentrations. Many of these nutrients have to be converted into inorganic forms by soil bacteria and fungi before plants can use them, so they typically are more slowly released, over time.



Since bacteria and fungi have to decompose organic fertilizer before they can be taken up by plants, nutrients are released more slowly, especially during cold weather when soil microbes are not as active. But organic fertilizers have many advantages. With organic fertilizers soil crusting is reduced. Organics may improve water movement into the soil and, in time, add structure to the soil. Organics feed beneficial microbes, thereby making the soil easier to work. Organic fertilizers may cost more than chemical, or inorganic fertilizers, because they are less concentrated, supplying fewer nutrients pound for pound.



Since many chemical/inorganic fertilizers are concentrated and very soluble, it is easier to apply too much and damage your plants. If you apply too much fresh, non-composted manure, you can damage your plants as well, because some manures contain harmful amounts of salts in addition to plant nutrients. Non-composted manures can also be a source of weed seeds.



Penhallegon has collected information about the nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P) and potassium (K) content of many of the organic substances commonly used as fertilizer in Oregon, including green manure crops such as crimson clover and alfalfa. His report, entitled, "Values of Organic Fertilizers," also contains information about how quickly an organic fertilizer releases available nutrients and a reference list on organic gardening.


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

now that being said some do not come from naturally occurring shit..


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> *Here's the scoop on chemical and organic fertilizers*
> April 30, 2008
> 
> 
> ...


*chemical nutes aren't evil?*


*WHAAAAAAAAAAAT?*


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

lol WHHHHAAAATTT????? gotta be hog nutting me


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

no how did i come off as a monsanto supporter.. what the heck is that even about.. the point of this thread is are chemical companies taking our money.. yes they are and anyone paying to grow with shit like advanced nutes are feeding it... growing doesn't require 1000$ worth of chemicals to grow a crop properly... I'm anti chemicals anyway.. 
and i still don't get why everyone thinks I'm arrogant. where does that come from.. id love to know other than the facts that i know i state. if thats arrogant i guess i am.. more correct than arrogant and when I'm not i always state I'm not. I've even corrected myself on here before on mis statements so the last thing i am is cocky or arrogant. but I'm not going to sit and be told there are no differences between organic and chemical fertilizers. 

an extraction process can turn organic product into inorganic. yes its still organic but its not extracted organically .. so is it the same... no because one can have inorganic properties attached to it depending on how it was produced or extracted. compared to using worm shit.... see my point?

and your whole first argument to any of this was there is no such thing as organic nitrogen...


Darth Vapour said:


> Good post Mongo
> the thing is Arrogance You got two clowns fighting over which is better rather then debating which has plus an minuses on either side of the fence
> guess what is MacDonald's killing millions, is pharma killing people the answer is YES
> Phil i been around the block there son and some members know me i use both methods in my closet hahaha and in green houses, in my time.
> ...


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Good post Mongo
> the thing is Arrogance You got two clowns fighting over which is better rather then debating which has plus an minuses on either side of the fence
> guess what is MacDonald's killing millions, is pharma killing people the answer is YES
> Phil i been around the block there son and some members know me i use both methods in my closet hahaha and in green houses, in my time.
> ...


even more than that i support any kind of growing and help with any kind of growng regardless of what i use and support. but don't sit and say its a difference between coke and pepsi .. its no comparison when you smoke 100% organic bud compared to a hydro or even chemically grow bud.


----------



## a mongo frog (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> even more than that i support any kind of growing and help with any kind of growng regardless of what i use and support. but don't sit and say its a difference between coke and pepsi .. its no comparison when you smoke 100% organic bud compared to a hydro or even chemically grow bud.


I don't think so. You must have had some bad bud is all.


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

yep ... forgot my bad.. must be


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

im not sure why if i say something some how it applies to every single grow ever in history....clearly i need to give credit where credit is due so people don't take offense can chemical line grown bud be grown properly and taste good... yes... does every single person who uses chemical lines have clean good grows that don't taste shitty... no......... would i smoke bud grown any other way than 100% organic amendments.. and water.. no ... to each his own i don't care what your fancy is


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

hell I'm sure you probably buy your meat in prepackaged logs because meat is meat... tastes like beef right?


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

what do those organic beef farmers know about tastes...


----------



## a mongo frog (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> hell I'm sure you probably buy your meat in prepackaged logs because meat is meat... tastes like beef right?


Actually yes i do.


----------



## hydroMD (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> *Here's the scoop on chemical and organic fertilizers*
> April 30, 2008
> 
> 
> ...


Jesus man... 

Your ignoring the simple facts.


All nitrogen in soluble form is the SAME. FROM ORGANICS OR NOT... it's stilll turned to nitrates... same compound that's found in synthetic ferts. I realise its a slow output, but its the same damn chemical element. 

Thats my point. 

Do you understand this?


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> what do those organic beef farmers know about tastes...


what exactly qualifies beef as "organic"?
'


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> what do those organic beef farmers know about tastes...


----------



## a mongo frog (May 6, 2015)

Don't you understand that shit Phil........ For fuck sake get off your high horse. Im sure your a cool guy though.....


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> Jesus man...
> 
> Your ignoring the simple facts.
> 
> ...


Maybe a pretty picture will help him?


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> what exactly qualifies beef as "organic"?
> '


grass fed really god forbid i say 90% again... i might get shot.. but ALOT of farmers feed grains and shit.. then add antibiotics to keep them healthy cause their natural diet isn't grains... organic sometimes falls into free range too cause antibiotics are used in massive feed lots where they stand in their shit all day


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> grass fed really god forbid i say 90% again... i might get shot.. but ALOT of farmers feed grains and shit.. then add antibiotics to keep them healthy cause their natural diet isn't grains... organic sometimes falls into free range too cause antibiotics are used in massive feed lots where they stand in their shit all day


I thought "shit' was organic?


----------



## Darth Vapour (May 6, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


>


 lol funny shit 
i wonder Phil you sound like a preacher dead set on your beliefs like it said in the video
how fucking brain washed lmao i am still cracking up hahaha


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

your whole argument was theres no such thing as an organic fertilizer.. and nitrogen is nitrogen.. but my point is theres synthetic nitrogen...or other forms of nitrogen used ... nitrogen isn't just soley nitrogen all the time with no other molecules attached ever....theres many forms of different nitrogen molecules used in chemicals.. ammonium nitrate is in chemicals.. nitric acid is in fertilizers for nitrogen supplement.. read the ostwald process he started the synthetic production of nitrogen


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

ostwald


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

point being there is a difference in some chemical cases where its not a organic form of nitrogen


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> point being there is a difference in some chemical cases where its not a organic form of nitrogen


in case you missed it earlier,i'll post it again


----------



## Darth Vapour (May 6, 2015)

But hey know one ever figured out that your grass / grain is only good as the amendments or nutritious value of the shit but as nutrient values get depleted so does the shit so there fore the cow is not getting enough nutrients hence vitamins added man made vitamins to boot lol
but the buck doesn;t stop here lets face it yields are less in organic them are facts if 21,000 people starve to death daily its fair to say add 30 - 40 percent more in death rate if we relied on organics alone 

21,000 x 365 = 7665000 a year 
+ 35 percent 28 350 x 365 = 10347750 deaths of staration 
let alone figure be higher cause of commodity less product of goods means higher costs so you can add 20 percent probably more to the deaths


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

just for the record, I am NOT anti organic, i just think it gets over used and some of these guys ride a high horse because they grow with organics.


----------



## sunni (May 6, 2015)

chill out folks


----------



## a mongo frog (May 6, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> just for the record, I am NOT anti organic, i just think it gets over used and some of these guys ride a high horse because they grow with organics.


I second this.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> I second this.


watch out for the guy growing organics and using a L.E.D, he is going to have better bud than anyone in history.


----------



## rob333 (May 6, 2015)

cyco line i have been having issues with


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> But hey know one ever figured out that your grass / grain is only good as the amendments or nutritious value of the shit but as nutrient values get depleted so does the shit so there fore the cow is not getting enough nutrients hence vitamins added man made vitamins to boot lol
> but the buck doesn;t stop here lets face it yields are less in organic them are facts if 21,000 people starve to death daily its fair to say add 30 - 40 percent more in death rate if we relied on organics alone
> 
> 21,000 x 365 = 7665000 a year
> ...


yeah i am not saying I'm pro everything organic.... things would be different if we actually weren't all so reliant on supermarkets and mass food production .. areas would be spread out more ..instead of so many confide in a city.. but even then I'm sure we could all be 100% self sustaing


----------



## Aeroknow (May 6, 2015)

Everything is a chemical because everything is made of matter.

*Matter and Chemicals*
Anything that has mass and occupies space is matter. Matter consists of particles. So, basically anything you can taste, smell, or hold consists of matter and is therefore a chemical.


----------



## phil k (May 6, 2015)

COULDN'T ALL be self-sustaining i meant to say DUH


----------



## a mongo frog (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> yeah i am not saying I'm pro everything organic.... things would be different if we actually weren't all so reliant on supermarkets and mass food production .. areas would be spread out more ..instead of so many confide in a city.. but even then I'm sure we could all be 100% self sustaing


Does hamburger helper give you heart burn or do you just hate it. Like the 3 cheeses one?


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

Aeroknow said:


> Everything is a chemical because everything is made of matter.
> 
> *Matter and Chemicals*
> Anything that has mass and occupies space is matter. Matter consists of particles. So, basically anything you can taste, smell, or hold consists of matter and is therefore a chemical.


wait a minute, So if i put H20 on my plant, I used chemicals?


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2015)

Everyone focuses on the source of materials, and that's groovy and all. I certainly fester over the local amendments I use. 

Another equally huge issue is what happens when you introduce a bulk of nutrients. Nutrients somewhat locked up in fish meal, guano, etc often require microbes to release the ions, then store them and eventually release them back to the plant. The microbe / plant relationship is a fine dance. Doesn't happen when you bottle feed. You've significantly changed the soil dynamic, and the microbial profile changes. Microbes aren't storing / fetching Cations like they're supposed to. Plant cuts back on exudates, since the microbe symbiosis is gone. Microbes are out of a job.

People continuously and completely incorrectly assume that because they've inoculated their "soil" with microbes, that the microbes will flourish. People also assume if they inoculate with a microbial tea, that this might jump start that valuable plant / microbe relationship. It will not. If you bottle feed, you've changed the game. 

That's perfectly fine. Folks grow stellar weed this way. Toke up brothers. 

One big loss by firing all those microbes is a direct loss of some immune response. Same with animals and humans.


----------



## unwine99 (May 6, 2015)

I can taste and smell the difference between hydro and soil grown herb -- the soil grown herb does seem a little more pungent/flavorful imo. But "organically" grown soil bud better than synthetically grown soil bud -- I think that's a load of horse manure.............pun intended.


----------



## Aeroknow (May 6, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> wait a minute, So if i put H20 on my plant, I used chemicals?


Yup, and therefore your buds will taste like shit. 
You should have used organic water only. No chemical water


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2015)

Rrog said:


> Everyone focuses on the source of materials, and that's groovy and all. I certainly fester over the local amendments I use.
> 
> Another equally huge issue is what happens when you introduce a bulk of nutrients. Nutrients somewhat locked up in fish meal, guano, etc often require microbes to release the ions, then store them and eventually release them back to the plant. The microbe / plant relationship is a fine dance. Doesn't happen when you bottle feed. You've significantly changed the soil dynamic, and the microbial profile changes. Microbes aren't storing / fetching Cations like they're supposed to. Plant cuts back on exudates, since the microbe symbiosis is gone. Microbes are out of a job.
> 
> ...


I think people need to understand, if you want to grow in soil, go organic, if you want to use synthetics, use the appropriate medium, soiless/coco hydro.


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2015)

^^ Exactly !! ^^ I've smoked shitloads of excellent hydro flower. Grown a shitload of hydro flower. Toke on!


----------



## Darth Vapour (May 6, 2015)

hell i start with 50 / 50 ewc shrimp compost , sheep shit pro mix etc,,, this gives them the start after 2 weeks there on chemical nutrients a well balanced diet costing me no more then 50 bucks for a complete grow , start to finish
i also grow organic and with all the amendments a person needs to add from scratch now your taking possibly hundreds of dollars 12 bucks here 15 bucks there etc etc so do not think growing organic is cheap maybe once you gone full circle but again like in nature it takes a while to get a true eco system in order


----------



## Darth Vapour (May 6, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Does hamburger helper give you heart burn or do you just hate it. Like the 3 cheeses one?


 Don't you be dishing hamburger helper or riceoroni the sanfransico treat lmao my fav still is KD


----------



## hydroMD (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> even more than that i support any kind of growing and help with any kind of growng regardless of what i use and support. but don't sit and say its a difference between coke and pepsi .. its no comparison when you smoke 100% organic bud compared to a hydro or even chemically grow bud.





phil k said:


> so lets just get this straight before we go on .. nitrogen is nitrogen.. and there is no organic nitrogen.. right ? thats your scientific input? i just wanna be clear


This is like saying if you add 3+3 to get 6, that 6 is a different number than the 6 you get from the difference of 9-3. 

You fallow? 

And im saying that the process to get to nitrates is different, the xhemical element is the exact same whether its been broken down by nature or synthetic chelations.


----------



## hydroMD (May 6, 2015)

phil k said:


> your whole argument was theres no such thing as an organic fertilizer.. and nitrogen is nitrogen.. but my point is theres synthetic nitrogen...or other forms of nitrogen used ... nitrogen isn't just soley nitrogen all the time with no other molecules attached ever....theres many forms of different nitrogen molecules used in chemicals.. ammonium nitrate is in chemicals.. nitric acid is in fertilizers for nitrogen supplement.. read the ostwald process he started the synthetic production of nitrogen


Ammonium are also produced naturally by fungus, while bacteria create nitrates.

Fun fact for ya


----------



## phil k (May 7, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> This is like saying if you add 3+3 to get 6, that 6 is a different number than the 6 you get from the difference of 9-3.
> 
> You fallow?
> 
> And im saying that the process to get to nitrates is different, the xhemical element is the exact same whether its been broken down by nature or synthetic chelations.



i was never arguing nitrogen not being nitrogen... but there are different extraction process and different synthetics used to make nitrogen forms and some of those forms of nitrogen (although nitrogen at heart) is not an ... i guess you can say organically derived form of nitrogen...

i mean potassium is potassium
phosphorus is phospurus in their elemental forms.. but if NPK is NPK regardless of how its extracted or derived then why is their certified organic grow lines?

i mean theres shit like resin coated nitrogen.. is it nitrogen .. yes.. but is it technically a organic nitrogen form.. no because a secondary chemical process was applied to nitrogen to make it release slower. 
theres even shit like urea formaldehyde used in fertilizers as a nitrogen supplement. yes at heart its nitrogen but the added formaldehyde to slow the release process makes it uncertifiable organic. theres even shit like IBDU used for nitrogen supplementing. 

now straight urea is a certified nitrogen form .. i think if I'm not mistaken OMRI certifies it also

so is nitrogen nitrogen yes but that wasn't your argument to start.. theres different make ups that change the release process even that make it not able to even be considered an organic nitrogen so there is a difference ..


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

phil k said:


> haha i was going to say something i had to delete it
> 
> and what is it 6 or 8 that i have to beat .. or don't you know how many bulbs your own setup is?


I just said to hit me back when u put up 6-8 lights. Anyone can put up 1 light and get results because ite easy work.

When u start running 30-50 plants in a larger garden its a alot more difficult to get both yield and quality. Thats my point.

Im not gonna sit here and listen to some closet grower tell me what works and what doesnt.

That was my point


----------



## phil k (May 7, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> I just said to hit me back when u put up 6-8 lights. Anyone can put up 1 light and get results because ite easy work.
> 
> When u start running 30-50 plants in a larger garden its a alot more difficult to get both yield and quality. Thats my point.
> 
> ...


haha yeah buddy rocking the closet


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

phil k said:


> and you get 6 ounces paying up the wazoo for chemicals.. you have to balance those chemicals.. use RO water which costs even more to produce... i get 6 oz for 20$ ... end story ur getting sold snake oil...


I dont use RO water. So idk where ur getting that from.
RO water is only really necessary if ur running hydroponics and certain nutrients.

I run regular tap water at one place and have well water at another. RO water doesnt have enough buffers to stabilize PH and causes too many swings. Its hard to dial in and caused too many issues. I bubble the tap water for 24 hours


----------



## phil k (May 7, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> I just said to hit me back when u put up 6-8 lights. Anyone can put up 1 light and get results because ite easy work.
> 
> When u start running 30-50 plants in a larger garden its a alot more difficult to get both yield and quality. Thats my point.
> 
> ...


your getting a little too upset... go smoke some of your schwag and chill


----------



## Aeroknow (May 7, 2015)

phil k said:


> your getting a little too upset... go smoke some of your schwag and chill


----------



## chuck estevez (May 7, 2015)

phil k said:


> your getting a little too upset... go smoke some of your schwag and chill


now that's funny, mostly cause it's true.


----------



## phil k (May 7, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> I dont use RO water. So idk where ur getting that from.
> RO water is only really necessary if ur running hydroponics and certain nutrients.
> 
> I run regular tap water at one place and have well water at another. RO water doesnt have enough buffers to stabilize PH and causes too many swings. Its hard to dial in and caused too many issues. I bubble the tap water for 24 hours


jesus bro seriously.. i don't know what to say to you.. but i get why everyone was jumping you now.. fuck it i was trying to be cool and joking with you.. but id love you to stand in your 8 bulb grow room with your plants and hold a sign that says fuck phil so we can all see your not a closet grower...


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

I get great results using organic nutrients in soilless mediums. Idk why u think u need to run specific nutrients in specific mediums.

I wud never recommend trying to use organics in a hydroponic system bcuz its pretty much pointless but other than that using a peat or coco blend as a medium w organics works perfectly fine.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 7, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> I get great results using organic nutrients in soilless mediums. Idk why u think u need to run specific nutrients in specific mediums.
> 
> I wud never recommend trying to use organics in a hydroponic system bcuz its pretty much pointless but other than that using a peat or coco blend as a medium w organics works perfectly fine.


I could also smoke schwag like yours, but I choose to do things the right way.


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

Purple Chem Dog run..

Schwag u talkin about my shit or someone else.. I grow fire so idk who ur speaking too..

 

U wish ur shit came out this good


----------



## chuck estevez (May 7, 2015)

yeah, i wish,LOL, where did you learn to trim? That might make mid shelf here. Not bad


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

Dense rock hard, purple frosty buds of loveliness..

Keep hatin.. Wish there was a smell button. Ppl drivin by ur house wud come knocking askin u for a bag lol


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

Thats a trimpro roto trimmer. Thats all the small bag stuff. I only hand trim the colas. Dont got time to do everything by hand. Takes too long.


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

It would take over a week everyday 8+ hours if i had to hand trim an entire 8 light room. Dont got time to do that.


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

Big donkeys of strawberry cough look at these monsters bout to be cut down..

Heres some AN that "dont work right"?? LMAO

 
AN Jungle Juice 2 par
Big Bud, Overdrive, Voodoo Juice and b-52


----------



## chuck estevez (May 7, 2015)




----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

Before bloom. 
 

Trimpro Roto Trimmer in action.. 1/4 lbs every 10-15 minutes


----------



## chuck estevez (May 7, 2015)




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## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

Yeah like I said AN I use it. And I get great results. As I mention I only speak anout what I know and what I do. I dont listen to other ppl and make shit up.

AN is the sh*t and my results speak for themselves.


----------



## phil k (May 7, 2015)

man that many plants you'd think your main priority would be health.. cleary not the case... and those aren't donkey dicks either .. but I'm not going to sit here and bash people SCHWAG ON...

your results definitely do speak for themselves... over fed flower plants SCREAMING QUIT FUCKING FEEDING ME!!!


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

If anyone wanna know what i used there you go...

Full line up to grow top dog primos right here "the recipe":


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

Over fed plants and not healthy?? Bahahaha... Ok buddy lol keep hatin lmao


----------



## phil k (May 7, 2015)

im lost on why you think people are hating on you... id lose respect for anyone who was jelous of someone growing on a funky ass place in a unsealed room where bugs and everyfucking thing under the sun comes in and effect your plants.. your flowers are so over fed and salt ridden the fucking leaves could be hard shell tacos..

you somehow think having 6-8 lights makes you cool... when any grower in here would take a true properly built 2 bulb grow room over having 3 lights dangling from the ceiling and calling it a grow room... so please get off your high horse take it to the watering trough.. give it some water and ride off into the sunset!


----------



## phil k (May 7, 2015)

and for someone that has a 6 bulb setup.. why are you using bed sheets on the walls.. or did you waste all your money on lighting?


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

phil k said:


> im lost on why you think people are hating on you... id lose respect for anyone who was jelous of someone growing on a funky ass place in a unsealed room where bugs and everyfucking thing under the sun comes in and effect your plants.. your flowers are so over fed and salt ridden the fucking leaves could be hard shell tacos..
> 
> you somehow think having 6-8 lights makes you cool... when any grower in here would take a true properly built 2 bulb grow room over having 3 lights dangling from the ceiling and calling it a grow room... so please get off your high horse take it to the watering trough.. give it some water and ride off into the sunset!


Ive never had a big in 10 years sorry buddy. The room is sealed first of all. Run a 4 burner co2 generator. And the floor has nothing to do with anything so u dont know what ur talking about but okay lol.

Yeah one of the plants grew into a light and got burned in the front left. It was cupping bcuz it got too hot under the light its not from nutrients dip shit.


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

phil k said:


> and for someone that has a 6 bulb setup.. why are you using bed sheets on the walls.. or did you waste all your money on lighting?


Hey dumb dumb that bef sheet is covering a window those plants r being trimmed that not in the room use ur brain moron


----------



## phil k (May 7, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Ive never had a big in 10 years sorry buddy. The room is sealed first of all. Run a 4 burner co2 generator. And the floor has nothing to do with anything so u dont know what ur talking about but okay lol.
> 
> Yeah one of the plants grew into a light and got burned in the front left. It was cupping bcuz it got too hot under the light its not from nutrients dip shit.


I'm still waiting to see a picture of your room with the fuck phil in it I'm curious to see how someone spends so much buying and building this large setup and can't see their plants aren't healthy


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

And if u knew anything u would know that a basement floor is probably the coolest part in any house, so why wouldnt u want ur pots on a cool floor? DUH!


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

My plants r perfectly green top to bottom and throughout bloom. So idk what ur talking about lol


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

Whats not healthy? Heres a veg pic please explain.
 
Ill be waiting...


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

Ur obviously an idiot.. Talk to u some other time. Step ur game up chump


----------



## chuck estevez (May 7, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Hey dumb dumb that bef sheet is covering a window those plants r being trimmed that not in the room use ur brain moron


I was more curious as to where your lab coat is?


----------



## Rrog (May 7, 2015)

All of this shit looks super great to me. I'm lighting up right now 'cause of these pics! Can't help it!!


----------



## phil k (May 7, 2015)

why do you keep showing VEG shots... my dog can piss on a weed plant and veg the fucking thing... and i sure don't see 6 bulbs... maybe your mistaking the large reflectors for 2 bulbs..


----------



## phil k (May 7, 2015)

i love how I'm a idiot and your putting plants on a cement basement floor.. stupid me... don't forget to wash your lab coat while your in your veg room!!


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

phil k said:


> i love how I'm a idiot and your putting plants on a cement basement floor.. stupid me... don't forget to wash your lab coat while your in your veg room!!


Yeah thats one of the rooms. U really need to use ur brain here buddy. Thats one of the 4 light rooms and i have another one identical to that. 

Bcuz ur telling me the plants arent healthy those r the pics i got in veg. 

I put up bloom pics too ur just an idiot.


----------



## unwine99 (May 7, 2015)

One of my favorite exchanges was from you guys......


pk_boosted2 said:


> Haha.. Lol u guys love to hate thats all i gotta say.. Clown season and trolls gallour.. U guys dont know good bud if it slapped u in the face. My strawberry is mid grade schwag? Lmao u wish ur flowers came out this fire thats a fuckin joke u guys r ridiculous.
> View attachment 3320939
> View attachment 3320937
> If this is mid grade, schwag then people must b smoking some garbage then lol





chuck estevez said:


> your schwag is seeded brah





pk_boosted2 said:


> Ummm. My buds def got no seeds in it but okay lol





chuck estevez said:


> View attachment 3321402





pk_boosted2 said:


> So when they become over ripe they produce little banana flowers and its almost impossible not to have a seed here and there because of its genetics.




Priceless


----------



## Darth Vapour (May 7, 2015)

Got a question sounds like ???? sounds like these 2 guys are actual companies ??? WTF why fight get in a real ring and giver shit might be a better fight then may weather's last bout lol 
this is crazy shit 
and what are we fighting over again i am Soooooo lost haha


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

unwine99 said:


> One of my favorite exchanges was from you guys......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah. Bcuz people who dont know about original chem dog see a seed and all of sudden its "schwag". Seeds are no indication of quality or potency whatsoever and thats an amateur statement to being with. So anyone who knows true chem dog would understand that first its a clone only strain developed from a hermie plant. And when you flower the strain for too long it tends to produce a small amount of banana flowers. It also can occur from any minor stresses in environment. And I've also had a rare few hermie simply bcuz its genetically disposed to do so, and it produces a few seeds here and there no more than 5 at most Ive even had occur. That happened to be one of the few pieces in which it occurred amd I didnt even notice it myself. 

Since its genetically predisposed and its not a hermaphrodite caused by environmentsl stresses and is actually a true hermaphrodite it only self pollinates on rare occasions but will not effect any other plants in the garden. 

But anyone w the chem dog knows this but thats whatever. He was just trying to stir the pot per usual. LOL


----------



## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Got a question sounds like ???? sounds like these 2 guys are actual companies ??? WTF why fight get in a real ring and giver shit might be a better fight then may weather's last bout lol
> this is crazy shit
> and what are we fighting over again i am Soooooo lost haha


People who think they are never wrong. And cant content to the fact like people such as myself who uses nutrients such as AN and Canna are "idiots". So these knuckleheads have to try and talk shit and make stuff up bcuz they got nothing better to do with their time.

Im just tired of arguing w amateur growers who have 1 light up in a closet wanna tell me how to grow and wtf im doing. Simply based on fact that I tell people that using AN and Canna produced top quality shit compared to bs nutrients like Dyna Gro. Which is fact not fiction.


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## Rrog (May 7, 2015)

I wanna see more pics while there's still a pissing contest a-happenin'


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## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)




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## chuck estevez (May 7, 2015)

total STRESS weed^^^^^lol


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## Rrog (May 7, 2015)

The trifecta. Mature cola / dense lush canopy / centerfold bud-shot

Fuckin A!

So cool that everyone's putting their heart and soul into this, regardless of WTF we're feeding them. These pics are inspirational no matter how you slice this shit


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## Darth Vapour (May 7, 2015)

Well with all BS set aside a grower should use what ever he chooses being it Chem or organic. Do what works best for you period 
I prefer using salts one also has to remember in organic there so called nutrients is bases on amendments know one is ever sure exactly what NPK values is going into your soil many things determine the outcome temps , microbiology lots of variables.
with chem nutrients you have a MSDS and label that has to follow standard laws showing percentages of what....
So there for you have a better idea of what you feeding your plants its like anything else your able to actually dial a grow better .. there is no denying that concept 
We can sit here all day saying chem companies are ripping us off what about Ice cream ???
shit your buying Air 50 percent of the product is Air 
so being chemical is liquid your buying water yippee but forget to look at the big picture other ingredients added to that water ...
But at the end of the day who fucking cares ??? if you grew your plant with right amount of nutrients , light , and environment parameters you will harvest some good weed again strain depended 

Phil you mention 90 percent of chem grown plants are unhealthy i really shake my head at your post.....
If anything being truth full when growing organics it appears there the ones showing def at the beginning ,, ( when matter is being broken down to make actual food ) and most importantly at the end....And this is where the craze of tea brewing has come into play to cover the def through out 
Both ways work just find a nutrient company that you can adjust to make changes as plants grow experience is key


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## chuck estevez (May 7, 2015)

[QUOTE="pk_boosted2, post: 11570249, member: 889862"*]People who think they are never wrong*. And cant content to the fact like people such as myself who uses nutrients such as AN and Canna are "idiots". So these knuckleheads have to try and talk shit and make stuff up bcuz they got nothing better to do with their time.

Im just tired of arguing w amateur growers who have 1 light up in a closet wanna tell me how to grow and wtf im doing. Simply based on fact that I tell people that using AN and Canna produced top quality shit compared to bs nutrients like Dyna Gro. Which is fact not fiction.[/QUOTE]LOL, funniest post in this thread, oh the irony
http://data:image/png;base64,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## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Well with all BS set aside a grower should use what ever he chooses being it Chem or organic. Do what works best for you period
> I prefer using salts one also has to remember in organic there so called nutrients is bases on amendments know one is ever sure exactly what NPK values is going into your soil many things determine the outcome temps , microbiology lots of variables.
> with chem nutrients you have a MSDS and label that has to follow standard laws showing percentages of what....
> So there for you have a better idea of what you feeding your plants its like anything else your able to actually dial a grow better .. there is no denying that concept
> ...


Half the growers who try organics arent even providing what the plants need. Especially those doing super soils. They go and amend a soil and just "water only". But the minute the deficiencies begin its hard to ever fix the problem. Not only that but the theory that a plant only consumes what it needs never makes sense to me. Considering pre charged soils and super soils are packed with nutrients with levels in excess of 2500-3000 ppm from the jump and as the roots grow into them its super hot. 

Take pre charged bagged soils for instance you cant even put cuts into the shit bcuz they get burned up instantly. And since u rely on the mix u made how do u even know how much s being absorbed, consumed and uptaken properly is almost i possible to tell until u have problems. Its not as easy as just mixing and letting them grow theres alot of factors that go into it.

I prefer drain to wiast bcuz i gave total control over my garden and plants and its 100% more accurate and reliable to fix problems bcuz i know whats in my medium a all times. Yes its more expensive to grow in this manner but quality control is a huge factor and beneficial in long term. Almost all big time growers, dispensary grows, and big warehouse cultivators all grow in drain to waste systems (thats for a reason)!! Its the best and easiest way to control all aspects of growing.

Lately alot of placed are going with DWC. As they r finding can out yield many of the conventional growing methods, while saving on nutrients and costs. But upfront costs are alot higher to begin, noone is running super soils growing large scale. As i said before all organic growing is simply just being done by small time growers who want quality. If u want results u go drain to waste or dwc and u get the production, yield and quality.


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## Rrog (May 7, 2015)

Grow man, grow!

My fun is to use local amendments from MI to build and amend the soil. Then grow in it for a dozen generations, no-till. Whatever floats a guy's boat.


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## chuck estevez (May 7, 2015)

soil for show, hydro for dough

why I don't buy from dispensaries, dro sucks!!!


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## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> [QUOTE="pk_boosted2, post: 11570249, member: 889862"*]People who think they are never wrong*. And cant content to the fact like people such as myself who uses nutrients such as AN and Canna are "idiots". So these knuckleheads have to try and talk shit and make stuff up bcuz they got nothing better to do with their time.
> 
> Im just tired of arguing w amateur growers who have 1 light up in a closet wanna tell me how to grow and wtf im doing. Simply based on fact that I tell people that using AN and Canna produced top quality shit compared to bs nutrients like Dyna Gro. Which is fact not fiction.


LOL, funniest post in this thread, oh the irony
http://data:image/png;base64,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




[/QUOTE]

Thats not irony at all. Its a statement based on facts. I find it funny that theres many big growers on here who all use Canna and AN and dont even bother getting into arguments with the other half of growers on here who all dick ride a couple ppl and think Dyna Gro and Jacks are good nutrients when they arent. They are cheap, lab made, synthetic salts that are inferior products to any of the main MJ specific nutrient companies on the market who design their products with growers in mind who want the grow the best and oroduce the "healthiest consumable" products out there.

There have been many journals and scholarly articles written about the subject that not all nutrients are created equal. Derived sources, processes, extractions and cultivation of nutrients plays a huge role in the quality of nutrients people use in their medi grows.

For example. Eveyone in the world for most part eats meat right? But why are all meats labeled by what they fed their cows before the food is processed? Bcuz ppl want to know what went into the food before it was made and the same thing shud b held for MJ if u want it to be the best.

Which is the reason there are some individuals who will only smoke medi that been grown organically from OMRI lister companies as a piece of mind. Dyna gro is 100% synthetic lab made salts. Same as miracle gro etc... Using propietary blends of organic and synthetic nutrients is what people shud use to grow, as some things must be synthetic in order to get the desired yields and quality people want.

If u have ever left a bottle of dyna gro opposed to canna on a shelf for a year or two and went back to look st the bottles of nutrients after theyve been sitting around u can tell the difference in quality between the two. Shit Ive seen bottles of dyna gro in 6 months that have turned to complete bricks of chalk hard salt oozing out of the caps from being on a shelf, opposed to high quality nutrients that look completely the same as the day u got them such as Canna products. Not only that but the smell and quality of the nutrients and way they break down in water are completely different as well.

My point is not all nutrients nor salts are created equal. Otherwise there would be 1 magic bottle of potion that everyone wud use and there wud b no competetion on the market, it wud just be x Brand nutrients and there is no other choice. But thats not the case and thats for a reason, period.


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## chuck estevez (May 7, 2015)

you keep believing that shit PK. You'll fight to the death to be right, Like I said, IRONY at it's best.


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## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

Its kind of like buying a TV. They are all made of metals, plastics and components. But some are better than others bcuz what they are xactly made out of. How long they last, the clarity of the picture etc... Nutrient are no different than anything else that is based on varying factors. Derived sources of nutrients, how they r chelated and suspended, how they interact with mediums and water etcc.. Take it for what u want but theres a reason some gallons of nutrients cost 20$ and some cost 100$ because typically the more expensive nutrients cost more to make bcuz they are derived from higher quality sources.


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## chuck estevez (May 7, 2015)




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## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> you keep believing that shit PK. You'll fight to the death to be right, Like I said, IRONY at it's best.


My dude its not that I just believe it, I know it to be true for a fact. Theres been case studies, lab tested and scholarly articles written on it with scientific evidence, u cant argue w that.

Anytime someone wants to argue about overpaying for bottled nutrients from big companies says ooh i can grow w dog piss and water, and my answer is so go do it and lemme see ur results. Its non sense, u pay for what u get.

U cant grow w dog piss and water or everyone would do it. Same way as anyone can grow with nutrients, yah u can. But if u buyhigher quality nutrients u get better results. Companies spend millions per year doing R&D to make the best market lesding products. Why wud they do that if they cud use cheap ass shit like some other companies. Bcuz people r cheap and dont know any better. Im here to tell em why lol


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## Rrog (May 7, 2015)

You don't always get what you pay for. A marketing department might say otherwise. lol

At the end of the day all they want is your cash. They'll throw up a graph, write a paper, whatever is needed to get your dollar. They are not objective.

If they could sell you water, they would


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## Darth Vapour (May 7, 2015)

Well that is just it i chuckle sometimes when threads like this, or others. Organics vs chem or DWC it always ends up in a cluster fuck  
Phil being such a avid organic buffer lol would you have any soil analysis on required amendments ?? or you just winging it ??? on your soils ??? going with the flo on what others use or do 
i use salts for a reason and that reason is growth ,yield if anyone was to do a side by side same strain clone one in organic and one using chem and then look at the difference 2 weeks later its a no brainer which one would be probably twice as big and that really equates to efficiency specially when power consumption is used 

Phil for you some nice chem fed buds nice n frsoty


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## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

The other ironic shit on here is, guys like Phil come on here and tlk all kinds of non sense, while I come on explain everything im saying clearly and back my shit up with proof. Im the only one posting oics of my gardens and flowers and he aint produce anything but wants to talk shit, thats ironic.

So until someone wanna come on here and prove me wring imma kp marching while i best the drums and kp it moving.


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## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

Rrog said:


> You don't always get what you pay for. A marketing department might say otherwise. lol
> 
> At the end of the day all they want is your cash. They'll throw up a graph, write a paper, whatever is needed to get your dollar. They are not objective.
> 
> If they could sell you water, they would


But then you wud be a fool if u tried it and continued to use it right? Thats why my point is i been doing this for a decade plus. I only tlk about what I know from MY OWN EXPERIENCE.

u see my pics w my nutrients laying on the floor in my room. Im not on here saying i use shit that I dont. I tell u that i run AN Nutrients and I do. I dont just listen to other ppl and say oh such and such is marketing bs and its garbage. I go out and try the shit and i dont listen to anyone whether its a company or someone else. 

Its like when they first came out w Atami BloomBastic used to be called "Bling Bling" people said how bad bling bling was and it was bs but were raving about Bloom Bastic. Its the swme fuckin product. Ghey relabeled it bcuz of restrictions by states on labeling and ingredients. That why diff states have diff things listed on their bottles. They all the same but diff places want u to write down diff shit. I just think its funny that ppl dont think for themselves. They take other ppl words for shit and go and repeat it.

If i listened to what everyone ever told me about growing and never did shit for myself id still be an amateur barely getting 1 lb. per light. If i listened to everyone who told me AN & Canna was a waist of money Id never be pulling down 2+ a light getting top dollar for my shit and id still be using gh bubble packs to grow and fox farm ocean forest. Thats my point i dont like ppl who repeat and dick ride when they aint enver done any of the shit for themselves but wanna tell me what im doing.


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## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Well that is just it i chuckle sometimes when threads like this, or others. Organics vs chem  or DWC it always ends up in a cluster fuck
> Phil being such a avid organic buffer lol would you have any soil analysis on required amendments ?? or you just winging it ??? on your soils ??? going with the flo on what others use or do
> i use salts for a reason and that reason is growth ,yield if anyone was to do a side by side same strain clone one in organic and one using chem and then look at the difference 2 weeks later its a no brainer which one would be probably twice as big and that really equates to efficiency specially when power consumption is used
> 
> Phil for you some nice chem fed buds nice n frsoty


Thats why i said before and im sure u will agree. Organic growing is for personal users w small grows. If ur growing to grow for profit or for dispnesaries noone is doing all organic grows. It doesnt compete. Synthetic and organic blends are best way to grow, u need yield and quality. Thats why i stick to AN and Canna. They r both proprietary blends of organic and synthetic derived nutrients and outperform almost anyother company on market. And i know bcuz ive used almost eveyone of them multiple times. On all diff types of mediums.


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## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Well that is just it i chuckle sometimes when threads like this, or others. Organics vs chem or DWC it always ends up in a cluster fuck
> Phil being such a avid organic buffer lol would you have any soil analysis on required amendments ?? or you just winging it ??? on your soils ??? going with the flo on what others use or do
> i use salts for a reason and that reason is growth ,yield if anyone was to do a side by side same strain clone one in organic and one using chem and then look at the difference 2 weeks later its a no brainer which one would be probably twice as big and that really equates to efficiency specially when power consumption is used
> 
> Phil for you some nice chem fed buds nice n frsoty


What is that a widow strain? Looks exacty like the white berry i used to do few years back.


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## ttystikk (May 7, 2015)

Rrog said:


> You don't always get what you pay for. A marketing department might say otherwise. lol
> 
> At the end of the day all they want is your cash. They'll throw up a graph, write a paper, whatever is needed to get your dollar. They are not objective.
> 
> If they could sell you water, they would


Oh but in the case of water bottles nutrients, THEY DO.


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## Rrog (May 7, 2015)

Most people are strongly influenced by marketing. They are also generally looking to be comfortable with their purchase, reducing potential "buyer's remorse." So they might even talk about their great purchase online, which of course emboldens more people to buy. It's the goal of every marketing department.

Millions of people avoided cholesterol for decades, why?

Not saying this is happening to anyone here, however it would explain why folks continue to do what they do.


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## Rrog (May 7, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Oh but in the case of water bottles nutrients, THEY DO.


Holy shit-the-bed!


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## Darth Vapour (May 7, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Oh but in the case of water bottles nutrients, THEY DO.


You are correct that is why growers need to do some home work both ends organic / chem and also forums like this looking for which growers using what kind of nutrients and issues they have picking an choosing what most are having success with like ordering bacteria for 20 bucks for organics when you can go to home depot / Rona and buy same shit for half the price with more bacteria for septic systems if you catch my drift


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## Rrog (May 7, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> like ordering bacteria for 20 bucks for organics when you can go to home depot / Rona and buy same shit with more bacteria for septic systems if you catch my drift


This is part of the larger illusion. Dumping microbes into an environment doesn't mean anything. The air is already full of all the microbes needed. The issue is they won't do what you want once they're dumped.


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## Darth Vapour (May 7, 2015)

Rrog said:


> Most people are strongly influenced by marketing. They are also generally looking to be comfortable with their purchase, reducing potential "buyer's remorse." So they might even talk about their great purchase online, which of course emboldens more people to buy. It's the goal of every marketing department.
> 
> Millions of people avoided cholesterol for decades, why?
> 
> Not saying this is happening to anyone here, however it would explain why folks continue to do what they do.


 Its called brain washing its been done for decades


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## Rrog (May 7, 2015)

'zactly. We see it everyday on this forum


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## chuck estevez (May 7, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Its called brain washing its been done for decades


And PK's Brain has been washed clean with that Marijuana specific nutrient BS,


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## Rrog (May 7, 2015)

it can blind a person. Look at all the brainwashed cops. They will never come to believe we're not evil and don't deserve a beating. It's hard to correct this sort of thing.


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## Darth Vapour (May 7, 2015)

chuck estevez said:


> And PK's Brain has been washed clean with that Marijuana specific nutrient BS,


 Phil K = PK
PK booster = PK lol


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## st0wandgrow (May 7, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> I prefer using salts....
> So there for you have a better idea of what you feeding your plants its like anything else your able to actually dial a grow better .. there is no denying that concept


I would deny that concept.


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## hydroMD (May 7, 2015)

Rrog said:


> You don't always get what you pay for. A marketing department might say otherwise. lol
> 
> At the end of the day all they want is your cash. They'll throw up a graph, write a paper, whatever is needed to get your dollar. They are not objective.
> 
> If they could sell you water, they would


Haha, mighty wash comes to mind as I just learned its an $80 bottle of soap and water lol 

But I gotta take the middle ground here... nobody is getting the same results with dynagro as they are with canna


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## ttystikk (May 7, 2015)

st0wandgrow said:


> I would deny that concept.


I think organic approaches and hydroponic media both have their strengths and their 'best solution' set of advantages. It's up to the gardener to make the choice that's best for them.

I think the best nutrients for neither approach come in a bottle full of water.

Dry nutrient salts are the same thing as the components of the vast majority of nutrient lines out there, they just cost less. They also tend to be easier to work with.

Having done organic grows in the past, I understand what is involved and that it too has its strong points. Those nutrients also tend to come in solid form, like 'compost', 'bone meal', 'chicken droppings', etc. One can even brew up their own water bottle style concoctions- teas- with them!


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## hydroMD (May 7, 2015)

st0wandgrow said:


> I would deny that concept.


Why because your organic? 

Id say that's a pretty valid comment


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## st0wandgrow (May 7, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> Why because your organic?
> 
> Id say that's a pretty valid comment


I just feel that the plant knows best what it wants, when it wants it, and how much of it it wants. Great results can be achieved using salts, but to me that requires growing a strain several times to get a feel for it first.


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## hydroMD (May 7, 2015)

st0wandgrow said:


> I just feel that the plant knows best what it wants, when it wants it, and how much of it it wants. Great results can be achieved using salts, but to me that requires growing a strain several times to get a feel for it first.


Lol get off your organic high horse bruh Its clouding your brain


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## hydroMD (May 7, 2015)

st0wandgrow said:


> I just feel that the plant knows best what it wants, when it wants it, and how much of it it wants. Great results can be achieved using salts, but to me that requires growing a strain several times to get a feel for it first.


Thats the beauty of salts... they are predominantly used in hydro, which is very easy to dial in as you go. Takes 2 days to see the reaction of your npk mix. 

I love my TLO but most organic heads are a little overly smug about organics... its not better, its different


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## Darth Vapour (May 7, 2015)

st0wandgrow said:


> I would deny that concept.





st0wandgrow said:


> I would deny that concept.



Organic has become more of a political term than anything. In chemistry, organic simply means it contains a carbon molecule. It says nothing about quality, taste, nutritional content, or cleanliness. Plants grown with a high quality mineral based nutrient will always outperform organically grown plants in terms of growth rates. They will also have higher nutritional content. Taste is a hot issue so I will only say this: Hydroponic nutrients have the potential to make some very tasty and fragrant buds just like organics.


Based on these things it is obvious that people don't choose organic for any performance value, so there must be another reason. (for anyone who wants to say mineral nutes hurt the environment.....go back to school. When used correctly, there is no negative environmental impact whatsoever) If they think it is cleaner because hydro nutes contain chemicals, they are absolutely mistaken. Firstly, everything is a chemical. Water is a chemical. People need to stop saying things like "chemical fertilizers" and realize that organic nutes contain "organic chemicals". High quality hydro nutes are direct sourced from mines that pull minerals straight out of the earth. They are not contaminated during purification, and from a chemistry standpoint, the elements are in a superior form in terms of purity and availability. Organics relies on bacteria and enzymes breaking down decomposing organic material. Much of this material is feces. This is what always gets me. Ignorant organiphiles say that they don't want to give their plants hydro nutes because they don't want to consume the chemicals (this in itself is a retarded statement)..... but they will give their plants animal shit and then consume them..... what the fuck was that animal eating????? Think about what we give animals nowadays. Antibiotics, growth hormones, genetically modified foods, etc...... and then we want to put that on our plants, and consume them? Not to mention the fact that feces contains a ton of nasty shit that I don't want to be consuming. Did you know that food grown with human feces is considered organic? 

Let me repeat that in a more dramatic fashion:

If you have every purchased organic produce from the store it is very possible that you have eaten produce grown with human feces. 

In mexico they literally will use untreated sewage, straight from the sewers, to feed their organic crops. We get a ton of our organic produce from mexico. 


Hydroponic crops contain none of this nastiness because the nutrients are clean. I would much rather eat (or smoke) clean plants with a higher nutritional content than plants grown using feces. 



THAT BEING SAID

If you are a grower that uses earth worm castings and brews compost teas and has a little farm where you know exactly what your animals are eating and you use some of their feces, what you have is a beautiful example of a self sustaining cycle which will produce high quality crops without any investment in fertilizers. I have no problem with this whatsoever. 

We know though that most "organic growers" are simply using crap they buy in a bottle which most likely contains sketchy ingredients, questionable ratios and elemental content, nasty animal feces, etc....... 

Therefore, my problem is not with the concept of organic gardening, it is with the fact that most people have absolutely no idea what they are giving their plants but they think they are socially advanced because they are "organic gardeners". Drop the ego, get off your high horse, and accept organic formulas for what they are. ANOTHER WAY FOR COMPANIES TO MAKE MONEY. 


Final words : 

Self sustaining organic farms are sweet. People looking to grow organic should do it because it represents a natural approach to gardening. I think of it more like learning to live off the land. We are taking the decomposing organic matter and returning to the earth so that new plants can grow to feed the animals to make the feces to make more plants and so on and so on. 

Since most of us cant keep a small self sustaining farm in our backyards we rely on nutrient companies to sell us organic fertilizers. This already defeats the concept because it is not self sustaining. People need to stop thinking of organic as just being what is fed to the plants and realize it should refer to a lifestyle choice. Buying general organics as opposed to general hydroponics does not make you an environmentalist. I have no problem with organics, just the people who grow using organics because they all seem to have their head 2 ft up their own ass and don't realize they are just making the same nutrient companies rich by buying their organic versions. I respect organic farmers and people who use organics for the right reasons. Other than that its a bunch of liberal douchebags who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. 

And let me reiterate one final time: Most organic nutrients contain a bunch of nasty shit beyond the things you want to give to your plants.

Personally, I would much rather give my plants top quality mineral nutrients and forget all the bullshit (literally).


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## st0wandgrow (May 7, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> Lol get off your organic high horse bruh Its clouding your brain


How did you draw the conclusion that I'm sitting on a high horse from my comment?

You post some strange stuff bruh


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## hydroMD (May 7, 2015)

st0wandgrow said:


> How did you draw the conclusion that I'm sitting on a high horse from my comment?
> 
> You post some strange stuff bruh


Because of the interactions I've had with you on this site lol

You amd a lot of the strictly organic fellows are pretty stuck in your methods and seem to snicker at anything but TLO.

As someone who has been growing organically for 8 years I was basically shunned by you and a few others because I have "hydro" in my name 

I dont think your a bad guy, I do sense some bias


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## st0wandgrow (May 7, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> Because of the interactions I've had with you on this site lol
> 
> You amd a lot of the strictly organic fellows are pretty stuck in your methods and seem to snicker at anything but TLO.
> 
> ...


Go back and re-read the thread that you're referring to. I think you'll find that I didn't shun you at all. In fact I have no problems with people using organic bottled nutrients. I think there is a distinction to be made between an organic soil (which requires microbial intervention to mineralize the inputs) and soluble organic nutrients which are plant available, but I don't "shun" folks for doing whatever they chose.

I've actually been banned from an organic website because I called out the holier-than-thou organic purists for shitting on people that do things differently than they do.

I'd be happy to address a particular post if you felt I was being unfair.....


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## hydroMD (May 7, 2015)

st0wandgrowmistaken11571144 said:


> Go back and re-read the thread that you're referring to. I think you'll find that I didn't shun you at all. In fact I have no problems with people using organic bottled nutrients. I think there is a distinction to be made between an organic soil (which requires microbial intervention to mineralize the inputs) and soluble organic nutrients which are plant available, but I don't "shun" folks for doing whatever they chose.
> 
> I've actually been banned from an organic website because I called out the holier-than-thou organic purists for shitting on people that do things differently than they do.
> 
> I'd be happy to address a particular post if you felt I was being unfair.....


Perhaps I have you mixed with patthabi or whatever his name is lol. 

What's funny is I dont use bottles in my TLO, but I do live next to a university that does biomass testing on the cheap and found that low chelated bottles do not have the drastic effects on microbes that seems to be the popular public opinion. (used sparingly, usually 1/3-1/4 of recommended)

When people argue that fact to the bitter end because it doesnt line up with their personal opinion I get a sense of smugness 

Sorry to confuse you brotha

I still stand firm on the value of being able to dial in a strains specific needs through hydro. Helps a lot when ammending soil and needing some foresight


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## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

If ppl want good cheap one part synthetic nutrient than try Rock Nutrients from Australia. I did a couple runs with it and its verry good product. Highly recommend it.

Not as good as Canna or AN but its right there


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## pk_boosted2 (May 7, 2015)

Best purchase i made in awhile is the micro sprayer. Used it with the rock nutrient absorbalight. Shit is badass. Easiest runs i ever did with premium results and u only need 3 things for entire run. 

Only costs about 100$ per light veg thru bloom.


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## chuck estevez (May 7, 2015)




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## Aeroknow (May 7, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> Perhaps I have you mixed with patthabi or whatever his name is lol.
> 
> What's funny is I dont use bottles in my TLO, but I do live next to a university that does biomass testing on the cheap and found that low chelated bottles do not have the drastic effects on microbes that seems to be the popular public opinion. (used sparingly, usually 1/3-1/4 of recommended)
> 
> ...


I posted something similar yesterday, but deleted it soon after. It didn't feel rite at the time. I'll try again:
Is that university you're talking about UH Hilo by any chance? My best buddie majored in AG there. Did some crazy shit in them classes. We grew all around the big island. Mainly up in Volcano. Best tasting buds I remembered tasting was puna budder grown outdoors using osmocote and rain water. 
I'm sure the organic only guys will have a hard time believing that though


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## hydroMD (May 7, 2015)

Aeroknow said:


> I posted something similar yesterday, but deleted it soon after. It didn't feel rite at the time. I'll try again:
> Is that university you're talking about UH Hilo by any chance? My best buddie majored in AG there. Did some crazy shit in them classes. We grew all around the big island. Mainly up in Volcano. Best tasting buds I remembered tasting was puna budder grown outdoors using osmocote and rain water.
> I'm sure the organic only guys will have a hard time believing that though


I only live on the islands part of the year. I stay in Kailua on Oahu but have a lot of friends in Hilo and volcano on the bigs


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## Rrog (May 8, 2015)

I'm compelled to address the shit in this thread. Specifically, the discussion about manure. The way it's being described (for hyperbole / effect / shock) by some, you'd think raw manure was used on plants, and that the raw shit is somehow being completely absorbed by the plant to create some shit-tomato. 

Unfortunately this is completely and fundamentally flawed thinking. So flawed it's obviously being presented for some ignorant shock value.

Any manure is too N hot for direct root contact. We all know this. Any manure is aged for a year or more, allowing microbes to sequester ions, making it safe for root contact. Again, we all know this.

It's certainly worth also noting that microbes (including fungi here) are fantastically capable of reducing complex molecules such as antibiotics to their bare elements given time.


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## beans davis (May 8, 2015)

Many brain dead mindless idiots on this forum............

Dyna- Gro
NYCD x OG K...
































Jacks classic...those buds are a foot across that aint kite string holding them up.70s Afghani x Skunk


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## chuck estevez (May 8, 2015)

^^^^^^


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## Rrog (May 8, 2015)

For a brain-dead mindless idiot, I'm thinking I like the pics


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

beans davis said:


> Many brain dead mindless idiots on this forum............
> 
> Dyna- Gro
> NYCD x OG K...
> ...


Imagine what u wud have got if u used good nutrients lol


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## a mongo frog (May 8, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Imagine what u wud have got if u used good nutrients lol


Pretty rude comment, plants look great and yet you find something to put someone down about. For an experienced medical farmer you sure are a rude motherfucker. Im sure your pretty cool face to face though.


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## beans davis (May 8, 2015)

Rrog said:


> For a brain-dead mindless idiot, I'm thinking I like the pics


That wasn't direct at any 1 in particular....I was a mindless idiot myself at 1 time.

I hate to see people feed these rip off nute companies. Those were grown in MG peat and perlite 50/50 fed Dyna-Gro Pro-Tect Gro and maybe a little Bloom mixed in during bud. In hydro I run it the same but mix a little more bloom in w the gro during bud.

70s Afghani x Skunk


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## Rrog (May 8, 2015)

^^^ I was just funnin' with ya. ^^ Love the pics! Nice to see product at the hands of a master.


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

Dyna gro has too much nitrogen in their nutrients which is why u see soo much leaf to bud ratio. 

Like i said dyna gro works its just mediocre. If u wanna grow the best use the best. 

Im not being rude at all. Its okay for him to tell ppl they r mindless idiots, but i cant tell em he wud have had better results if he used better nutrients? Wheres the trade off there.. Lol

Its all in good fun, we all talk shit. Its what makes my day go by and gives me something to do lol.


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## chuck estevez (May 8, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Dyna gro has too much nitrogen in their nutrients which is why u see soo much leaf to bud ratio.
> 
> Like i said dyna gro works its just mediocre. If u wanna grow the best use the best.
> 
> ...


LOL


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

Secondly those buds r long and appear big. But i guarantee soon as they were cut down and dried they shriveled up to nothing. They are very airy. And u can see all the fox tails growing off the bud shoots. He either let em bloom for too long or applied too much nitrogen and not enough pk during bloom period. Which u can see in the pic of the dried flower 2nd from bottom.


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

Heres an AN 4 light run.. For all those folks who think its over priced.. Now these are some fckin donkeys!!


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## Rrog (May 8, 2015)

You're happy, and that's what's important.


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

Im doing a side by side right now that ill have updates on between Botanica Pure blend (My Recipe) and The Rock Nutrients out of Australia.

Going to do 2 lights of each using 6 plants per 1000w light. Its gonna be Fruity Chronic and Ultra Sour from TH Seeds Anniversary Pack.

Running coco peat blend. 

And im gonna have week by week updates until final weigh in. I think its gonna be a draw but we shall see! Battle of the one part nutrients!!


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## chuck estevez (May 8, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Secondly those buds r long and appear big. But i guarantee soon as they were cut down and dried they shriveled up to nothing. They are very airy. And u can see all the fox tails growing off the bud shoots. He either let em bloom for too long or applied too much nitrogen and not enough pk during bloom period. Which u can see in the pic of the dried flower 2nd from bottom.


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

Who wants to blaze down on some of this delicious Barney's Grape Ape with me!!

Snack time!! YUMMY..

 

Or should i get my torch out and fire up the honey comb ear wax...
 

Or some FRESH out the oven purple chem shatter on the side.. As my appetizer AHHHH the choices


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## Darth Vapour (May 8, 2015)

Wow PK you amaze me i am very surprised we don't see you at any cup events showing , and telling everyone else how there weed is airy or it was grown with to much N lol amazing just fucking amazing ,,
Here is some food for thought there are thousands of growers using all types of chem / organic lines that are doing a fine job .. there growing there meds and life goes on guess what if i want to buy a vette or a Toyota,, its my choice understand 
but to criticize them for the lines there growing blows me away guess what ...
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to grow a fucking weed i have thrown plants out door litterally in a fresh pile of cow manure thinking its going to burn up and guess what the fucking thing yielded me 7 pounds dry from one plant and i walked away from it ,, meaning i never watered it or bothered with it 
i was shocked when i walked around barn in fall to see a 10 foot tree full of buds 
you got to get out of that mind set thinking just because you grow 6 k means you know your shit and your way or nutrient line you are pushing on here is the end all be all of lines 
600 watts or 20,000 watts no difference only work involved i know .. Been there done that so don;t use yeah he is a closet grower , so this person or that person knows fuck all ..
quit being a arrogant kunt already in other words just because at one time my harvests were 800 pounds wet / 200 pounds dry does not make me a pot god and know it all if you think you know it all then son you know fuck all


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## chuck estevez (May 8, 2015)

that shit looks nasty, full of all that AN crap.


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

That was done with Botanicare buddy


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Wow PK you amaze me i am very surprised we don't see you at any cup events showing , and telling everyone else how there weed is airy or it was grown with to much N lol amazing just fucking amazing ,,
> Here is some food for thought there are thousands of growers using all types of chem / organic lines that are doing a fine job .. there growing there meds and life goes on guess what if i want to buy a vette or a Toyota,, its my choice understand
> but to criticize them for the lines there growing blows me away guess what ...
> It doesn't take a rocket scientist to grow a fucking weed i have thrown plants out door litterally in a fresh pile of cow manure thinking its going to burn up and guess what the fucking thing yielded me 7 pounds dry from one plant and i walked away from it ,, meaning i never watered it or bothered with it
> ...



HUH? im assuming you only graduated from the 7th grade because your entire essay or paragraphs dont make any sense at all.

Maybe use some periods or commas or semi colons to break up your sentence because Im having a hard time understanding wtf you are even talking about.

But okay bud. NP, LOL.

PREACH ON BROTHA, PREACH ON!!


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## Aeroknow (May 8, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Wow PK you amaze me i am very surprised we don't see you at any cup events showing , and telling everyone else how there weed is airy or it was grown with to much N lol amazing just fucking amazing ,,
> Here is some food for thought there are thousands of growers using all types of chem / organic lines that are doing a fine job .. there growing there meds and life goes on guess what if i want to buy a vette or a Toyota,, its my choice understand
> but to criticize them for the lines there growing blows me away guess what ...
> It doesn't take a rocket scientist to grow a fucking weed i have thrown plants out door litterally in a fresh pile of cow manure thinking its going to burn up and guess what the fucking thing yielded me 7 pounds dry from one plant and i walked away from it ,, meaning i never watered it or bothered with it
> ...


I like your style Darth!

I wish I could still pull big outdoor crops. Motherfuckers here in Butte Co voted to practically ban outdoor last November. Than, if that's not bad enough, My back up spot in Yuba Co just went to shit. They banned outdoor completely. Unbelievable!


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## Darth Vapour (May 8, 2015)

That's the thing anyone can grow lots of plants its planning ,,, one of my very first indoor grows ever was over 228 plants in veg 152 in flower , and 800 clones multiple rooms perpetual and it was lots of work 2 years non stop and NO fucking life ....
After couple scares i said fuck that now its 4 - 6 plant personal with good yields,, and breeding programs in place..
Stepping up my game or at least hope to eventually have growers growing couple of my strains
..... Test grows ... that is my goal now .... presently getting prepared for out door breeding season strains new more stable blue berry and some purple strains Names to possibly be release this winter after selected test grow results


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## chuck estevez (May 8, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> HUH? im assuming you only graduated from the 7th grade because your entire essay or paragraphs dont make any sense at all.
> 
> Maybe use some periods or commas or semi colons to break up your sentence because Im having a hard time understanding wtf you are even talking about.
> 
> ...


made perfect sense to me. Maybe it's you who didn't graduate the 7th grade if you didn't comprehend, just sayin.


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> That's the thing anyone can grow lots of plants its planning ,,, one of my very first indoor grows ever was over 228 plants in veg 152 in flower , and 800 clones multiple rooms perpetual and it was lots of work 2 years non stop and NO fucking life ....
> After couple scares i said fuck that now its 4 - 6 plant personal with good yields,, and breeding programs in place..
> Stepping up my game or at least hope to eventually have growers growing couple of my strains
> ..... Test grows ... that is my goal now .... presently getting prepared for out door breeding season strains new more stable blue berry and some purple strains Names to possibly be release this winter after selected test grow results


WOW DUDE U SERIOUS??

Those are not ur plants first of all.. U can find those photos on pinterest.

That purple kush growing from multiple sites. I cant believe u wud steal pictures from ppl and claim that shit is yours!! Ur a fraud dude.

Anyone who wants to check for themselves drag the photo to google image search and u can see for urself. Ur a CLOWN! Certified 110% lmao


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

Ut oh. Chuck gettin involved w other peoples busines again. Here we go.

Chuck always has something to say about something. Even when it has nothing to do w him. Im just wondering if u have a life outside of the RIU FORUM. Because u spend an awfully long time on this site trolling around and butting ur head into conversations that arent directed towards you. Noone cares what you think u dont even know how to grow.

Everything u know is what UB has told u and u just copy n paste shit.

Than u chime in with ur typical meme and ask people why they are mad bro. Ur pathetic. If u spent as much time trolling on the RIU, and took all that energy into growing maybe just maybe you would be able to grow something, other than the bush wack schwag you got in your closets right now. FUCK OUT HERE. CHUMP


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## Darth Vapour (May 8, 2015)

????? really now same thing could be said for your pictures lol 
dam dude some people do know me on this site your words ring hollow


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> ????? really now same thing could be said for your pictures lol
> dam dude some people do know me on this site your words ring hollow


Sorry u cant say that about my photos those ar all mine. And u can tell because every pic comes from the same 2 grow rooms I have every time. Those ARE NOT your pics. U stole them off google images buddy some came from pinterest, bcuz A) ive seen em before and B) i just google image searched them and i found em 

LMAO!!
Ur a clown.


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## Darth Vapour (May 8, 2015)

hell if you look for pure power plant pictures you will find my pictures in there


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

Ive also held up magazines and newspapers w the date to back my shit up. So sorry im not a liar or a thief. Everything i post is MY work not other peoples. Loser


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

Yeah and? I believe the power plant pics were yours im talking about the purple kush photos u just put up. Those ARE NOT YOURS


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

Listen. U got caught out. Just stop please thanks


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

Just OWN IT and move on. Just dont steal other ppl's work and act like its yours we all know those arent ur pics and i just showed people where they came from. So stop it. Please


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

U post pics from start to finish than thats believable. U dont just pop up w premium purple kush pics claiming there yours when all other times u talk its been about growing power plant strains.

And now u got professional pics of purple kush that arent even the same pics lol. The first bud shot on plant isnt the same shit as the stuff drying so cut it out.


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

For instance here the grow i just spoke about startn with ultra sour and sage sours. Here the babies. In same room u see most of my other veg pics come from. So u know its real. The pics u posted arent even from same room or of any strains u spoke about growing. Lmao

Heres my last run of the chem dog and some stardwag in the veg room (actually bloomed them here as well which pics are from)..

 

 

Heres the new run starting up my mothers from seed in the SAME VEG ROOM


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## Darth Vapour (May 8, 2015)

sorry there pk i am not going to stoop to your level of thinking, Cause that is just being stupid and your doing a fine job at that 
Have a nice day


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## chuck estevez (May 8, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Ut oh. Chuck gettin involved w other peoples busines again. Here we go.
> 
> Chuck always has something to say about something. Even when it has nothing to do w him. Im just wondering if u have a life outside of the RIU FORUM. Because u spend an awfully long time on this site trolling around and butting ur head into conversations that arent directed towards you. Noone cares what you think u dont even know how to grow.
> 
> ...


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> sorry there pk i am not going to stoop to your level of thinking, Cause that is just being stupid and your doing a fine job at that
> Have a nice day


And not one pics of them in bloom beside single bud shots. So u got them in a bag, than u got em in veg but u dont got pics of them in bloom. BECAUSE U STOLE EM. ALL U GOT TO DO IS DRSG THE PIC TO GOOGLE IMAGES AND IT SHOWS U WERE THEY CAME FROM BUDDY.

Hard to lie in todays technology. Anyone can do it. Lol


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## chuck estevez (May 8, 2015)

same old Bs from Pk, he never gets 1 person to go along with his rantings, then he becomes a giant hypocrite.
we ALL really know he is just a Donkey


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

Hey look i got seeds too!!
But these srent mine i took it off google images ANYONE CAN DO THAT DUMMY


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

Yeah i am a donkey to ppl who want to troll and claim they grow shit and post pics up they stole off the internet.
I got no problem callin out FRAUDSTERS & LIARS. It is what it is. Dont be a chump and i wont be a donkey. I respect people who give it. U want real I am as real as they get. I aint get to where im at by being a liar, and a fraud. I promise u that!


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

I can be the collest dude u ever met or the biggest dick u ever met, i just give what I get, but dont be posting bs if u cant back it up. And if u can dish it but u cant take it than go back to dance class, this shit is for grown ups. 

I find it funny that this hobby and business is like the old fishermen everyone got a fckin whale tale. But soon as u call em out on it they crying wolf. Oh BOO HOO


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## chuck estevez (May 8, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Yeah i am a donkey to ppl who want to troll and claim they grow shit and post pics up they stole off the internet.
> I got no problem callin out FRAUDSTERS & LIARS. It is what it is. Dont be a chump and i wont be a donkey. I respect people who give it. U want real I am as real as they get. I aint get to where im at by being a liar, and a fraud. I promise u that!


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## pk_boosted2 (May 8, 2015)

I got work to do later CUPCAKES


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## chuck estevez (May 8, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> I got work to do later CUPCAKES







time to feed the girls?


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## Milovan (May 8, 2015)

phil k said:


> down with chemicals up with people who understand how to amend soil!


What do you do when the available neuts in soil amended veg or flower grows
go flat (are spent) after awhile but you want to keep the plants in their current pots?


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## Milovan (May 8, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> Lmao
> 
> Only thing you have to worry about in organics are gnats?
> 
> ...


.


.


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## Rrog (May 8, 2015)

Milovan said:


> What do you do when the available neuts in soil amended veg or flower grows
> go flat (are spent) after awhile but you want to keep the plants in their current pots?


You have to amend as you go occasionally. If you do, you can recycle without disturbing the soil (no-till)


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## Darth Vapour (May 8, 2015)

hahaha to fucking funny here PK sorry i do not have anything flowering presently only vegging girls like i said doing seed run this time around with most of plants out door and as its coming into summer here i do not do indoor grows ,, but hey there will be about 8 plants harvesting buds
but Stay tuned there i will make sure to post pictures as they grow and most importantly show you 30 - 40 pound harvest  green house style 
some pictures i found on the internet you wing nut


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## Darth Vapour (May 8, 2015)

owe fuck one more for you some purple kush grown like 4 - 5 yeas ago this is not my first BBQ


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## beans davis (May 8, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Secondly those buds r long and appear big. But i guarantee soon as they were cut down and dried they shriveled up to nothing. They are very airy. And u can see all the fox tails growing off the bud shoots. He either let em bloom for too long or applied too much nitrogen and not enough pk during bloom period. Which u can see in the pic of the dried flower 2nd from bottom.


You are wrong as can be those buds are pretty solid. I passed some cuts around to some guys that post on here lets see what they say about it when they bud her out. ..and she has a good flower to leaf ratio.

The 70s Afghani x Skunk grows a little leafy but the buds are solid as a rock w a very strong complex sat hi.

You can gro good buds w AN...you can w almost anything but is it the best for your money? I found w AN sensi AB by it self was best for me...but still I wasn't getting everything outa the plant. I had sone probs w AN before I knew about forums called fat mike several times on the phone. I ended up cussin his dumb ass out twice then he wouldn't talk to me any more LOL.

Nice grows bro each to his own...maybe a cut of that NYCD x OG K will get passed around some more and you can see for yourself if those buds are airy. Good yields of some killer sativa smoke. I'm gonna roll 1 now.

Take care man


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## phil k (May 8, 2015)

ME? well i use a different soil system than most everyone on here.. my foods and shit are all at the base of my grows.. promix fills the rest of my container... as long as your in the guidelines grow wise your never going to "go flat" like i flower almost everything in 2 gallon buckets... i put albs of my soil at the bottom fill the rest up with promix .. plant my clone and water.. thats it.. with albs of my soil i can veg for 2 months and get through a full flower.. ... now say i start in a 2 gallon and decide instead of flowering it I'm going to keep it in veg.. once the plants at about 2-3 months veg time i pull it out transfer it into a 5 gallon where i have 5lb. of fresh new hot soil at the bottom... i put a few inches of promix on top of the hot soil so that my plants roots don't come into direct contact with the hot soil.. then fill in the sides and remaining area with promix.. 
its always hard to explain in words.. 


Milovan said:


> What do you do when the available neuts in soil amended veg or flower grows
> go flat (are spent) after awhile but you want to keep the plants in their current pots?


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## phil k (May 8, 2015)

heres a 2 gallon rooting system close to end veg . you can see where the roots stop thats the hot soil...



heres the same 2 gallon mid flower....





heres the 2 gallon at the end of flower day of harvest... you can see the how soil that was on the base has basically been utilized...


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## phil k (May 8, 2015)

after my grows are done i take and dump all my loose soil .. shake off any on the dead roots .... into my garden and grind it in every year.... i also put my left over soil into my wives flower beds and crap.. i never reuse my soil..well i guess technically i do but i reuse it outside on my veggie gardens.


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## phil k (May 8, 2015)

when i said i just pull them out and transfer this is one i pulled out to move to a five..


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## Darth Vapour (May 8, 2015)

phil k said:


> ME? well i use a different soil system than most everyone on here.. my foods and shit are all at the base of my grows.. promix fills the rest of my container... as long as your in the guidelines grow wise your never going to "go flat" like i flower almost everything in 2 gallon buckets... i put albs of my soil at the bottom fill the rest up with promix .. plant my clone and water.. thats it.. with albs of my soil i can veg for 2 months and get through a full flower.. ... now say i start in a 2 gallon and decide instead of flowering it I'm going to keep it in veg.. once the plants at about 2-3 months veg time i pull it out transfer it into a 5 gallon where i have 5lb. of fresh new hot soil at the bottom... i put a few inches of promix on top of the hot soil so that my plants roots don't come into direct contact with the hot soil.. then fill in the sides and remaining area with promix..
> its always hard to explain in words..


 Not sure on what kind of power you are using but 2 - 3 months veg your going to need a hell of a lot more then 5 gallon let alone 2 gallon for 2 - 3 month vegged plant ,
IMO your plants would be seriously root bound????? at 3 weeks i am already in 5 gallon just saying 
Also with the soil procedure you say you do,,, And most people use the runoff method being water to run off.
With that in mind and you having your hot mix at bottom.. it would leach out at a greater rate and nothing to stop it being, there is no other soil to catch some of the leached minerals. Personally i do not think that is a good or efficient way to go about it .. But again i am not here to judge your methods do what works good for your situation


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## phil k (May 8, 2015)

bro... PK .. give it up and go on.. damn its been two fucking days of bickering on the post....and i don't wanna feed into it but they are right your making yourself look bad... just chill


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## phil k (May 8, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Not sure on what kind of power you are using but 2 - 3 months veg your going to need a hell of a lot more then 5 gallon let alone 2 gallon for 2 - 3 month vegged plant ,
> IMO your plants would be seriously root bound????? at 3 weeks i am already in 5 gallon just saying
> Also with the soil procedure you say you do,,, And most people use the runoff method being water to run off.
> With that in mind and you having your hot mix at bottom.. it would leach out at a greater rate and nothing to stop it being, there is no other soil to catch some of the leached minerals. Personally i do not think that is a good or efficient way to go about it .. But again i am not here to judge your methods do what works good for your situation


no i veg and flower in two gallon buckets all the fucking time P. and before we even fucking argue.. I'm sure you don't know a 2 gallon pail holds the same media space as a 3 gallon smart pot.


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## phil k (May 8, 2015)

so its not technically 2


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## phil k (May 8, 2015)

every single photo you see posted in the "real growers bring your A game" by me ... EVERYTHING is in 2 gallon pails...


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## phil k (May 8, 2015)

im lost on why people think they need all this fucking root space for flower.. i hit 3oz all the time in a 2 gallon bucket..


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## a mongo frog (May 8, 2015)

phil k said:


> im lost on why people think they need all this fucking root space for flower.. i hit 3oz all the time in a 2 gallon bucket..


So they can get more then 3 oz a plant. Thats in the newbie section bro. And its a fine read. Check it out!!!!


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## phil k (May 8, 2015)

depending on the strain i hit 5 -8 oz on a 5 gallon grow ... but your not verging in a 5 gallon bucket for a month and hitting 6-8 oz.. you still need to utilize your root space or your doing nothing more than having wasted soil nd area...... i also stirp my plants mostly to main colas only .. point being if I'm going to do a 1.5 month veg I'm not going to have more production in a 5 gallon than i would in a 3 gallon as long as the plants needs are met.


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## phil k (May 8, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> So they can get more then 3 oz a plant. Thats in the newbie section bro. And its a fine read. Check it out!!!!


seriously what the fuck are you even talking about?


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## a mongo frog (May 8, 2015)

phil k said:


> seriously what the fuck are you even talking about?


Don't get angry phil....


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## hydroMD (May 8, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Not sure on what kind of power you are using but 2 - 3 months veg your going to need a hell of a lot more then 5 gallon let alone 2 gallon for 2 - 3 month vegged plant ,
> IMO your plants would be seriously root bound????? at 3 weeks i am already in 5 gallon just saying
> Also with the soil procedure you say you do,,, And most people use the runoff method being water to run off.
> With that in mind and you having your hot mix at bottom.. it would leach out at a greater rate and nothing to stop it being, there is no other soil to catch some of the leached minerals. Personally i do not think that is a good or efficient way to go about it .. But again i am not here to judge your methods do what works good for your situation


Actually as far as leaching goes, microbes and fungal hyphae will bind with nutrient elements due to the cation anion relationship... 

If you have a good soil web ya dont have to worry about leaching nutrients out of your soil


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## hydroMD (May 8, 2015)

phil k said:


> im lost on why people think they need all this fucking root space for flower.. i hit 3oz all the time in a 2 gallon bucket..


3 oz?

Im pissed if I get under a pound/plant if im vegging for 1.5 months!!


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## Aeroknow (May 8, 2015)

200?


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## pk_boosted2 (May 9, 2015)

phil k said:


> no i veg and flower in two gallon buckets all the fucking time P. and before we even fucking argue.. I'm sure you don't know a 2 gallon pail holds the same media space as a 3 gallon smart pot.


Um yeah but a 3 gallon smart pot is equivalent of growing in a 5/6 gallon regular pot bcuz it can have more than 3x's the root mass because it air prunes the roots perpetually.

U tell me im an idiot and u grow in same 2 gal containers for 2-3 months of veg??? Thats hillarious. 2 gallon pots shud b ur 2nd pot after 2/3 weeks of veg they shud b too big for those containers and def after a month no fuck way. Thats ridiculous.


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## pk_boosted2 (May 9, 2015)

phil k said:


> depending on the strain i hit 5 -8 oz on a 5 gallon grow ... but your not verging in a 5 gallon bucket for a month and hitting 6-8 oz.. you still need to utilize your root space or your doing nothing more than having wasted soil nd area...... i also stirp my plants mostly to main colas only .. point being if I'm going to do a 1.5 month veg I'm not going to have more production in a 5 gallon than i would in a 3 gallon as long as the plants needs are met.


I run 5/6 week veg in 5 gallon smart pots through bloom and pull anywhere between 6-8 ounces per plant no problems so idk wtf ur talkin about. And thats with average yielding strains. Ive run white berry and white widow big bud xxl packs and pulled 10 ounces off some plants with a 6 week veg in 5 gal smart pots lol


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## pk_boosted2 (May 9, 2015)

I agree with you that u can get away w running 3 gallon smart pots thru bloom on a 5/6 week veg and packing 12-16 per light. But ur not gonna get as much yield running them in less. Pots in 5 gallons. Bigger ur roots bigger ur fruits. Ur killin ur grow by using such a small container period.


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## pk_boosted2 (May 9, 2015)

I recently switched over to the 10 gallon smart pots and 7 gallon air pots and ran a side by side. The smart pots grew almost 2x as much flower in dry weight over the air pots and had upper branches fatter than the 6 foot tomatoe stakes. Massive roots are necessary if u want massive fruits they go hand in hand


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## pk_boosted2 (May 9, 2015)

Who came up w this i watch my plants to tell me what they need bs anyways.

Bottom line is if u feed what u know plants need u dont got to watch anything but watch them grow lol. U provide what plants need up front there isnt anything to watch. So ur basically saying u wait until u got a problem to feed them more? Thats non sense lmao

U give em base nutrients - calmag and additives and u dont need them to tell u shit cuz u give it to them during feedings. U shud never see any deficiencies period bcuz u provide that for them upfront and dont got do anythjng lol


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## chuck estevez (May 9, 2015)

*LOL*




*pk_boosted2Well-Known Member*
↑
no i veg and flower in two gallon buckets all the fucking time P. and before we even fucking argue.. I'm sure you don't know a 2 gallon pail holds the same media space as a 3 gallon smart pot.
Um yeah but a 3 gallon smart pot is equivalent of growing in a 5/6 gallon regular pot bcuz it can have more than 3x's the root mass because it air prunes the roots perpetually.

U tell me im an idiot and u grow in same 2 gal containers for 2-3 months of veg??? Thats hillarious. 2 gallon pots shud b ur 2nd pot after 2/3 weeks of veg they shud b too big for those containers and def after a month no fuck way. Thats ridiculous.
pk_boosted2, Today at 5:08 AMReport
#363LikeReply




*pk_boosted2Well-Known Member*
↑
depending on the strain i hit 5 -8 oz on a 5 gallon grow ... but your not verging in a 5 gallon bucket for a month and hitting 6-8 oz.. you still need to utilize your root space or your doing nothing more than having wasted soil nd area...... i also stirp my plants mostly to main colas only .. point being if I'm going to do a 1.5 month veg I'm not going to have more production in a 5 gallon than i would in a 3 gallon as long as the plants needs are met.
I run 5/6 week veg in 5 gallon smart pots through bloom and pull anywhere between 6-8 ounces per plant no problems so idk wtf ur talkin about. And thats with average yielding strains. Ive run white berry and white widow big bud xxl packs and pulled 10 ounces off some plants with a 6 week veg in 5 gal smart pots lol
pk_boosted2, Today at 5:11 AMReport
#364LikeReply




*pk_boosted2Well-Known Member*
I agree with you that u can get away w running 3 gallon smart pots thru bloom on a 5/6 week veg and packing 12-16 per light. But ur not gonna get as much yield running them in less. Pots in 5 gallons. Bigger ur roots bigger ur fruits. Ur killin ur grow by using such a small container period.
pk_boosted2, Today at 5:15 AMReport
#365LikeReply​


*pk_boosted2Well-Known Member*
pk_boosted2, Today at 5:16 AMReport
#366LikeReply




*pk_boosted2Well-Known Member*
Who came up w this i watch my plants to tell me what they need bs anyways.

Bottom line is if u feed what u know plants need u dont got to watch anything but watch them grow lol. U provide what plants need up front there isnt anything to watch. So ur basically saying u wait until u got a problem to feed them more? Thats non sense lmao

U give em base nutrients - calmag and additives and u dont need them to tell u shit cuz u give it to them during feedings. U shud never see any deficiencies period bcuz u provide that for them upfront and dont got do anythjng lol​


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## greasemonkeymann (May 12, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> Actually as far as leaching goes, microbes and fungal hyphae will bind with nutrient elements due to the cation anion relationship...
> 
> If you have a good soil web ya dont have to worry about leaching nutrients out of your soil


ummm, unless you uh.. water the plant.
Water soluble nutrients get washed away man.


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## hydroMD (May 12, 2015)

Uhh...

Are you familiar with the cation:anion relationship in soil?


Bacteria, fungus, fungal hyphae and roots all carry electric charges (ions) while your nutrient molecules carry the opposite (+/-). A positive ion is called a cation, a negative an anion.

The sediment that makes up your soil can carry these electric charges as well.

Nutrients are Cations, while the soil and microorganisms are Anions.

You will not leach out the nutrients with plain water because Anions attach to Cations and are then binded by organisms, roots, and soil itself.



greasemonkeymann said:


> ummm, unless you uh.. water the plant.
> Water soluble nutrients get washed away man.


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## DANK PURPY (May 25, 2015)

jonnynobody said:


> This is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.
> 
> I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!
> 
> ...


cureently using the same GH trio. has all your basic needs and happy frog soil seems to do well as far as the mycorizae


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## rosco79 (May 27, 2015)

I totlally agree with this, i've been aware of the nute companys for a while now and have noticed the line grow as to whats needed to grow great bud. It's all a big smoke screen and if you get some good base nutes a flower booster and some molasas & milk your good to go. Read up on your npk's and whats needed for veg and flower. It does not need to be complicated, this plant grows well in the wild, with a little care it grows amazing indoors.


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## Uncle Ben (Jun 10, 2015)

There are no victims, only volunteers.


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## ToneOZ (Jun 10, 2015)

Uncle Ben do you still have the link o rama? And what ever happened to sharprubberduck


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## ToneOZ (Jun 10, 2015)

Never mind I found it!


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## MrRare (Jun 17, 2015)

Well I just finished the entire thread and am frankly very disappointed by the lack of information contained therein. This is supposed to be a forum to exchange information and botanical knowledge. Instead this thread is filled with bickering and banter a very little science to support the claims made. Can we get back to the facts of what works and why?


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## RockinDaGanja (Jun 21, 2015)

boycott all GH products.
What makes Monsanto greedy.... Are you serious dude? They knowingly sold poison bird seed that killed milllions of birds and fish just to turn a profit or not take any losses (because they're storicide #2 was poison). Also you can become a huge corporation by not being greedy.
Maybe inform people instead of lieing to them.
As far as AN goes i think they are a reputable company but the fact remains you just dont need 15 botttles and you dont need 8. Ive seen people use jacks 10-10-10 all the way through the cycle of the plants life.
Fuck GH. That's how i feel about them. Only thing GH i have left is a huge bag of three inch net cups. Probabley wont even use them. Also for all that money you spend on AN you could have a bad ass supersoil and a few buckets of act brewing. Im not hatin though. try building a soil with everything the plant needs in it. Skip the voodoo lizard cum or whatever there calling there latest "Flower Booster" 
Fuck Monsanto though. Look up @vostok thread on Monsanto, and what they do to not just americans but the entire world. Specifically asia.


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## RockinDaGanja (Jun 21, 2015)

MrRare said:


> Well I just finished the entire thread and am frankly very disappointed by the lack of information contained therein. This is supposed to be a forum to exchange information and botanical knowledge. Instead this thread is filled with bickering and banter a very little science to support the claims made. Can we get back to the facts of what works and why?


Yes...... Dont spend 300 dollars on nutrients that claim to contain More chelated metals then another company. Technaflora three part B.C. line up has everything you need and all the extra additives you don't.


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## Darth Vapour (Jun 21, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> Actually as far as leaching goes, microbes and fungal hyphae will bind with nutrient elements due to the cation anion relationship...
> 
> If you have a good soil web ya dont have to worry about leaching nutrients out of your soil


Hmm interesting you say that here is a good read and results of leaching in both non organic and organic you might find this very interesting people tend to believe the organic growing is actually better. Save the earth when in fact it can actually cause more harm
so lets set the record straight once n for all lol

http://www.hydrol-earth-syst-sci.net/18/333/2014/hess-18-333-2014.pdf




Also lets get this amount of soil to root mass figured out ..
I used to grow in 3 - 5 gallon pots sog style 5 week veg 70 + plants and harvest 7 - 8 pounds chemical feed
Watering was a night mare, room always a fucking mess, i thought there has got to be a more productive , cleaner way to go about it and achieve same yields etc..
so changed my style i went from typical pots ,, To totes 5 gallon and 34 gallon for final
instead of 70 plants i went 12 plants ,, only difference was training excessive training starting at a early stage
My results with out a reasonable doubt my yields trippled in them totes averaging 14 - 18 oz plants meaning root size is very important more roots more food uptake bigger plants , more yield end of story
you here people mention that your wasting soil i know when i took out them roots in my 34 gallon totes there was no soil as if plants ate it  sure your typical shake root system and some soil falls off but i assure you there was fuck all left of soil
Also i like to note pest control was better room was cleaner and most importantly plants grew fast and big ..
If you do not believe me try it for your self remember i went from 70 plus plants to 12 and achieved same yields same veg time same environment. only difference was instead of pots i went totes with out any drain holes 
seriously go get a walmart special tote  buy a 5 - 10 - 15 gallon totes place a plant in it and see the difference in growth size n yield compared to your other 3 gallons plants 



Comparison of the groundwater pollution potential of greenhouses that grow year round vegetables under intensive regimes shows that commercial farms that rely on compost as the main fertilizer source, as commonly practiced in organic agriculture, result in substantial down-leaching of nitrate
compared with farms that rely on fertigation methods, as commonly practiced in conventional agriculture.

http://www.hydrol-earth-syst-sci.net/18/333/2014/hess-18-333-2014.pdf


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## Darth Vapour (Jun 21, 2015)

RockinDaGanja said:


> Yes...... Dont spend 300 dollars on nutrients that claim to contain More chelated metals then another company. Technaflora three part B.C. line up has everything you need and all the extra additives you don't.


 you sound like a fucking salesman for technaflora geez man 
NPK is NPK use it accordingly and your plant will grow .
I have used miracle grow From start to finish and yes even the dry nutrient soil mix with great result ( Bottom fed ) its experience,,, buy what you can afford.
If these companies sold shit they be out of business long ago , are they ???


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## ttystikk (Jun 21, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Um yeah but a 3 gallon smart pot is equivalent of growing in a 5/6 gallon regular pot bcuz it can have more than 3x's the root mass because it air prunes the roots perpetually.
> 
> U tell me im an idiot and u grow in same 2 gal containers for 2-3 months of veg??? Thats hillarious. 2 gallon pots shud b ur 2nd pot after 2/3 weeks of veg they shud b too big for those containers and def after a month no fuck way. Thats ridiculous.


If he doesn't, I will.

You're an idiot. The nutrient company you're so obviously shilling for has average products at best and is run by pedophile sodomists. Now kindly shut up and piss off.


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## RockinDaGanja (Jun 21, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> you sound like a fucking salesman for technaflora geez man
> NPK is NPK use it accordingly and your plant will grow .
> I have used miracle grow From start to finish and yes even the dry nutrient soil mix with great result ( Bottom fed ) its experience,,, buy what you can afford.
> If these companies sold shit they be out of business long ago , are they ???


Im not a salesman for anybody buddy just trying to prove a point to not get caught up in the hype of all these bullshit nutrients. I dont even use technaflora anymore but if i were going to buy a bottled nutrient i would rather pay less for a qaulity product that donates money to third world countries for sustainable crop research. As opposed to miracle grow whos owned by a corporation that kills birds and fish and polutes the earth. 
The reason these companies are still in buisness is because uninformed dick farmers keep buying them.


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## Darth Vapour (Jun 21, 2015)

Again you do not have a clue you use monsanto as the evil let me see here who can be worse 
Archer Daniels midland ?? look at there track record what about AES , PPL, progress Energy , Bunge, here is a good one Conagra foods ,, i am sure you got that in your house right now these are just some we can get into coal producers , etc nuclear waste list goes on but you choose monsanto give it a rest
Monsanto is a 2 punch set up weed killer n seeds you want to grow corn with out weeds monsanto got everyone beat by a red mile there is no denying weeds kill crops 
people mention owe grow organic its better ,for the world etc that is so far from the truth its not even funny tests have shown more leaching of N from organic fields then non organic ..


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## hydroMD (Jun 24, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Hmm interesting you say that here is a good read and results of leaching in both non organic and organic you might find this very interesting people tend to believe the organic growing is actually better. Save the earth when in fact it can actually cause more harm
> so lets set the record straight once n for all lol
> 
> http://www.hydrol-earth-syst-sci.net/18/333/2014/hess-18-333-2014.pdf
> ...


Depends on the CEC of your soil as well as microbial life. 

If both are good you will not flush nurients out of your medium.

Only point I was making. 

I enjoy growing natural organics and synthetic


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## hydroMD (Jun 24, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Again you do not have a clue you use monsanto as the evil let me see here who can be worse
> Archer Daniels midland ?? look at there track record what about AES , PPL, progress Energy , Bunge, here is a good one Conagra foods ,, i am sure you got that in your house right now these are just some we can get into coal producers , etc nuclear waste list goes on but you choose monsanto give it a rest
> Monsanto is a 2 punch set up weed killer n seeds you want to grow corn with out weeds monsanto got everyone beat by a red mile there is no denying weeds kill crops
> people mention owe grow organic its better ,for the world etc that is so far from the truth its not even funny tests have shown more leaching of N from organic fields then non organic ..


Sustainable organics are Indeed better for the environment... there is no use trying to persuade me otherwise. Bad practices from the organic or synthetic side of the fence can be terrible for the ecosystem; however if both are done correctly organic is less invasive. 

The hold up is the involvment and intricacy of sustaining commercial size organic farms which makes it unfeasable for most of our crops in the USA. 

Most farms are working 5000+ acres. Good luck rotating livestock and birds in sufficient amounts to keep things natural on that scale. Take it from me


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## TripleMindedGee5150 (Jun 24, 2015)

What about Microbelife or Mission Fertilizer? Actually probably all that stuff I can just make myself at home huh.?


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## MrRare (Aug 19, 2015)

I have had excellent results with the Future Harvest line. It has a proven track record with some serious growers I know and they have tried many of the alternate lines available.


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## a mongo frog (Aug 19, 2015)

MrRare said:


> I have had excellent results with the Future Harvest line. It has a proven track record with some serious growers I know and they have tried many of the alternate lines available.


Sweet bro!!! Any Trimed bud pics?


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## Darth Vapour (Aug 19, 2015)

Mongo the guy probably doesn't even grow ,, He is upset cause he has been living free in rent, at his parents house, 
But they had enough of his sorry ass and told him he has to get a job,, or he is out haha
so he is venting at everyone .. talking suicidal etc you can clearly see he is @ witts end and thinking suicide dam feel sorry for him hahaha who am i kidding not at all


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## a mongo frog (Aug 19, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> Mongo the guy probably doesn't even grow ,, He is upset cause he has been living free in rent, at his parents house,
> But they had enough of his sorry ass and told him he has to get a job,, or he is out haha
> so he is venting at everyone .. talking suicidal etc you can clearly see he is @ witts end and thinking suicide dam feel sorry for him hahaha who am i kidding not at all


Oh shit, i didn't know about that. Well i really do wish the best for him. Every one is hiring here in america, he should land a job in no time i would think.


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## MrRare (Aug 20, 2015)

An example of the medicine using the Future Harvest line.


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## MrRare (Aug 20, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Sweet bro!!! Any Trimed bud pics?


A better close up.


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## MrRare (Aug 20, 2015)

This seasons crop of Sour Tsunami.


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## Rev.thenatural (Aug 21, 2015)

By them books, dress them up and send them to school. Then their smart so brilliant with their half truths and vomit wisdom. Then we make something useless for the people and environment based on petroleum derivatives and in a couple generations, nobody knows their left from their right. Hush rev. Everybody's got to make a living, this cannabis is going to become a real hot business and these boys in school, we put em there and why shucks, they know their stuff and we should listen. Lol. So much senseless money being wasted because of true understandings not being understood. Every once in a while somebody tries to share good info and its run down by fear and pride. What do you mean rev? Hard to tell someone sitting on a fortune in HP's bulbs and junk nutrients that their growing cannabis wrong. Takes too much humility for some to swallow and admitte that they are spending too much and usually always running to much light for example. Learn compost tea and never turn back. You can do it with a bag of your favorite soil, apple,banana peels, molasses,sugar and so on. Most only brew for a few days and that's not enough. At least a week and when it smells a little add sugar and stir. When learned you can bubble tea in your house and it won't stink and your trees will thrive and be super potent and smell and taste unreal. Well how many nutrient lines have you used rev? Most all and the tea I make blows them away...all. If you want to store it, very simple; simply cut it in half with water in jug and add one teaspoon of sugar and keep in cool dark place and will keep a long time with no smell. Had some boys laugh at me last summer when I moved out west and they were all using all the stuff mentioned above. Four weeks into flowering they seen my compost tea and urine piss eating plants under 14000k hid and they were crying and couldn't finish a joint with me. My trees four weeks flowering were frostier than theirs at 10 weeks and many times more potent. Gotta love free will. People can listen or not. Love so many schooled people, however their pride sometimes, makes them miss the boat. One love, rev.thenatural


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## Rrog (Aug 21, 2015)

Awesome bud shots!


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## MrRare (Aug 21, 2015)

Rrog said:


> Awesome bud shots!


Thanks Rrog!
I really enjoying growing these plants and watching them growing every day and turning amazing!


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## MrRare (Aug 21, 2015)

Rev
You sounds like a very wise and experienced man.
I would be honored to try your teas and would really like the recipe.
Thanks!


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## Rrog (Aug 22, 2015)

Sounds like someone doesn't like a formal science education


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## Rev.thenatural (Aug 22, 2015)

MrRare said:


> Rev
> You sounds like a very wise and experienced man.
> I would be honored to try your teas and would really like the recipe.
> Thanks!


No problem, I'm here to help as you boys and girls have enough folks trying to rip you off. Some of my generation have woke up and see now that our future, depends on you kids understanding and applying good and truthful principles in life and business. Make it simple for you and anyone else. Get a five gallon bucket and a bubbler and hose. Put hose at the bottom and anchor the hose down with a rock or whatever you choose. Throw in a shovel or two of dirt " fox farm, happy frog, some of your buddies compost ect, " then add a variety of things with it. Banana peels, apple peels, wild dandelion, clover, dried leaves, pine cones/needles, leaves off of your plants etc. One cup of sugar, 1/4 cup unsulfured molasses. This is just a start. Stir every day and if it stinks in a few days just add another half cup of sugar. After at least seven days, then use it. Cut each gallon in half with unchlorinated water and tea and add one spoon of sugar to each gallon and then store till used. This will get you started and in time, you will learn more and come up with some of your own recipes and you'll learn to keep it balanced without smelling bad. Once you start using tea, give a little time still for the organics to break down in soil, but once you see the tea giving them what they need, it just keeps giving and anything you grow with it, will be better quality than anything you will buy in a store. Anyone who would tell you different, doesn't know, even if they swear they do. I've already put too many to the test and they always leave shaking their head with notes..one love, rev.thenatural


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## Rev.thenatural (Aug 22, 2015)

Rrog said:


> Sounds like someone doesn't like a formal science education


I must tell you brother. True science and those educated in it...are needed and rare. In short and in a language we both can understand, " until those educated by the left brain of science, come together with humility with those who have been educated through the right brain of spirit/creator of all, very little will be accomplished for the future generation." False science and or wasted science that is handed down by the controllers is what the awakening ones despise. Their harvesting is almost at hand. Then, its just us...rev


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## VTMi'kmaq (Aug 22, 2015)

hydroMD said:


> Lol get off your organic high horse bruh Its clouding your brain


FOUND MEH A NEW SIGNATURE TODAY! FUCKEN A ITS MIGHTY NICE UP HERE ON MY ORgANIC HIGH HORSE! word to your motha!


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## a mongo frog (Aug 22, 2015)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> FOUND MEH A NEW SIGNATURE TODAY! FUCKEN A ITS MIGHTY NICE UP HERE ON MY ORgANIC HIGH HORSE! word to your motha!


What does "word to your motha" mean? By the way beautiful bud in your avitar!!!!! What strain is that?


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## VTMi'kmaq (Aug 22, 2015)

Rrog said:


> I'm compelled to address the shit in this thread. Specifically, the discussion about manure. The way it's being described (for hyperbole / effect / shock) by some, you'd think raw manure was used on plants, and that the raw shit is somehow being completely absorbed by the plant to create some shit-tomato.
> 
> Unfortunately this is completely and fundamentally flawed thinking. So flawed it's obviously being presented for some ignorant shock value.
> 
> ...


they have been spreading liquid shit in vermonts fields for a coons age my brah, and guess what the biggest issue is today????? blue green algae in the lake from the run-off of phosphates, the state blames dairy farmers especially when they load the spreaders and hit the fields............here's the first popular method 







then there's these badboyshttps://youtu.be/XXG-ZcHXmaM


thats a tame shooter right there, ive gone by spreaders that were shooting like fire hoses! regardless of the application its taken its toll on the lake here.http://phys.org/news/2015-08-missisquoi-bay-worst-algae-bloom.html........................i do realize weather plays a huge part. I also realize that these boys have been doing this, there fathers before them and etc, i believe all of whom round these parts have spread manures as a mainstay of reinvigorating there soils. lmao i also have seen the storage bays for the manure thats been sitting for SEVERAL years. Good stuff they say!


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## VTMi'kmaq (Aug 22, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> What does "word to your motha" mean? By the way beautiful bud in your avitar!!!!! What strain is that?


It means ive been watching too many reruns of in living color! lol, the strain is xxx og


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## MrRare (Aug 23, 2015)

Rev.thenatural said:


> No problem, I'm here to help as you boys and girls have enough folks trying to rip you off. Some of my generation have woke up and see now that our future, depends on you kids understanding and applying good and truthful principles in life and business. Make it simple for you and anyone else. Get a five gallon bucket and a bubbler and hose. Put hose at the bottom and anchor the hose down with a rock or whatever you choose. Throw in a shovel or two of dirt " fox farm, happy frog, some of your buddies compost ect, " then add a variety of things with it. Banana peels, apple peels, wild dandelion, clover, dried leaves, pine cones/needles, leaves off of your plants etc. One cup of sugar, 1/4 cup unsulfured molasses. This is just a start. Stir every day and if it stinks in a few days just add another half cup of sugar. After at least seven days, then use it. Cut each gallon in half with unchlorinated water and tea and add one spoon of sugar to each gallon and then store till used. This will get you started and in time, you will learn more and come up with some of your own recipes and you'll learn to keep it balanced without smelling bad. Once you start using tea, give a little time still for the organics to break down in soil, but once you see the tea giving them what they need, it just keeps giving and anything you grow with it, will be better quality than anything you will buy in a store. Anyone who would tell you different, doesn't know, even if they swear they do. I've already put too many to the test and they always leave shaking their head with notes..one love, rev.thenatural


Rev
Thanks for the recipe.
I have a few questions as follows:
How much of each ingredient do you suggest?
Once the tea has been made how much do you use when watering and how often?
Do you use the same tea during the entire lifecycle of the plant or is there something different used during the vegetative and flowering stages?
Thanks for your help!


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## ttystikk (Aug 23, 2015)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> they have been spreading liquid shit in vermonts fields for a coons age my brah, and guess what the biggest issue is today????? blue green algae in the lake from the run-off of phosphates, the state blames dairy farmers especially when they load the spreaders and hit the fields............here's the first popular method
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those storage bins of manure that have been sitting for years? They've been composting, which makes them less 'hot' and much better for working into the soil.

I believe that in time, farmers will realize that those mountains of manure are fuel sources- seriously- and will put it through biodigesters to speed the composting process. The fuel? Methane, aka natural gas, naturally bled off as a byproduct of that decomposition.

What to do with it? Run a FUEL CELL, which will generate electricity and cogenerate useful heat for warming homes, domestic water and even outbuildings.

So there you have it; a way to convert manure that's causing environmental problems into top quality composted material for soil that's better for both it and the environment... and a heat and power bonus!


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## VTMi'kmaq (Aug 23, 2015)

hold on...............wait for it....................wait..............wait.............(fucken a am i stoned right now) http://vectogether.org/projects/vermont-biodigester/



see tystick great minds do really think alike!


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## VTMi'kmaq (Aug 23, 2015)

Rev.thenatural said:


> I must tell you brother. True science and those educated in it...are needed and rare. In short and in a language we both can understand, " until those educated by the left brain of science, come together with humility with those who have been educated through the right brain of spirit/creator of all, very little will be accomplished for the future generation." False science and or wasted science that is handed down by the controllers is what the awakening ones despise. Their harvesting is almost at hand. Then, its just us...rev


Huh i'd love to see what you'd say to a native american farmer, whom learned from elders..........and nature......by the way is this true living organics rev by chance?


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## Rev.thenatural (Aug 23, 2015)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> Huh i'd love to see what you'd say to a native american farmer, whom learned from elders..........and nature......by the way is this true living organics rev by chance?


Pahana looks forward to seeing the sons of Adam again, he will have their seeds. Is there one left? Even one son of Adam that holds pahanas truths and will know their brother when he goes to them? Yes my brother. Only true organics for the rev. All my teas are based on hemp. This makes revs Sativa's too powerful for most white man. Look brother, pahanas god has given him Adams gift. Pure Acapulco golds to be seeded  for them to grow, when time comes. The last dance, the last round and Adam will be lead back into the garden again and forever. Serpent, will be no more. Stop for their is only one true corn...the smallest. One love, rev.thenatural


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## ttystikk (Aug 23, 2015)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> hold on...............wait for it....................wait..............wait.............(fucken a am i stoned right now) http://vectogether.org/projects/vermont-biodigester/
> 
> 
> 
> see tystick great minds do really think alike!


They're talking about combusting- burning- the methane to generate power and heat. That's about thirty percent efficient. Fuel cells can hit upwards of sixty percent efficiency at electrical generation.

The best part is that they could get this thing up and running with converted diesel generators and then upgrade to fuel cells at their leisure... best of both worlds!


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## innerG (Aug 25, 2015)

Rev.thenatural said:


> I must tell you brother. True science and those educated in it...are needed and rare. In short and in a language we both can understand, " until those educated by the left brain of science, come together with humility with those who have been educated through the right brain of spirit/creator of all, very little will be accomplished for the future generation." False science and or wasted science that is handed down by the controllers is what the awakening ones despise. Their harvesting is almost at hand. Then, its just us...rev


Spoken like a true pseudo intellectual


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## pollen205 (Jul 5, 2018)

What can you say about biotabs holland ?


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## gwheels (Jul 5, 2018)

Well I have about 1 year of GH trio and some others but when I have chewed through that on the indoor I might switch to a simpler line (GH is pretty simple though)

Remo or Jacks maybe.

Thanks for starting the post. It is a lot of good reading.

And Monsato can be the enemy in 2 quarts of grow micro and bloom. Right now they make the indoor go.

Outdoor I use some leftover organics I had. They smell worse than before but maybe they always smelled that bad.


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## jonnynobody (Jul 8, 2018)

Holy shit snacks! I never expected my brain fart from 3 years ago would have generated so much discussion.

I just bought my first home and am no longer growing in an apartment. I am running my first grow with roots organic grow and bloom in roots soil. I tried my hand at hydro once with hempy buckets with good results as far as weight and bag appeal went, but tasted and burned like total shit. I was actually embarrassed to smoke a bowl with anybody because the shit burned that poorly. It snappled, it crackled, and it popped. It burned to a solid charcoal ash and produced smoke that scorched the lungs. It looked like some high times centerfold flower though. It was a truly sad and humbling experience to be stuck with 13 ounces of sticky bud that I did not want to smoke. In any event, I have decided to forego hydro for a bit and try my hand at dirt again.

I think my fatal flaw with the hempy bucket / hydro setup was using too high of a concentration of fertilizer throughout the flowering period. I thought increased concentration would equate to increased flower production. I was correct in that it did increase the weight and girth of my flowers. It loaded them with fertilizer salts and bullshit to the point that the buds burned and smoked horribly. I don't blame the method or the fertilizer. I blame myself. It was a learning experience, and I learned that more fertilizer does not equal a better end product.

I will try hempy buckets again, but I will not repeat the same mistake that happened on my last hydro grow.

So far, the best grows I've had were in dirt using GH 3 part grow system and floralicious plus with a water, water, feed, water, water, feed regimen. The 4 or 5 grows I did under those conditions produced better quality bud than anything I have been able to obtain from any Lansing dispensary. I didn't do anything special. I just made sure I didn't over fertilize. I forgot that simple rule on my failed hydro / hempy bucket grow.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/thc-bomb-exploding-w-pics.842487/#post-10905676

That's my failed hempy grow with THC bomb. Wonderful strain ruined by over fertilizing.


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## Stink Bug (Jul 8, 2018)

jonnynobody said:


> This is an issue I think deserves consideration and open discussion because we work hard for our money and we should stop giving an inordinate amount of it to these nutrient companies that are making MASS profits off of confusion in the cannabis growing community.
> 
> I've been doing this for about 3 years now and in the process of that time, I have learned to ask questions as to what the plant actually needs and how it functions. When I learned to understand what the plant needs (still a lot to learn) as far as macro and micro elements, I began to feel like the nutrient companies did a fantastic job of confusing me as to what I really needed. What does mass confusion create? Mass profit!
> 
> ...


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## ANC (Jul 9, 2018)

No matter how good your ferts are, without climate control indoors, you can still be fucked.
I'm testing the parameters of my grow room for use in winter, and I would need to run about 3 or 4 times as many lights if I want the temperature in the golden range.
I will be moving it to a smaller flower room in winter after this run, I just need to get a tent so I can run my veg and flower lights in the same room.

I'm using a superior line of nutes that costs almost 10 times what the other stuff I use costs, and the plants always looked hungry since I weaned them off the organic feed I used in veg. The shit is just too nitrogen heavy for good flowering otherwise I'd use that..


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