# do c02 levels need to come down during night hours (while flowering)



## Jason Cox (Oct 20, 2015)

I'm running a setup in a garage where i have a large tent for vegging
and use the rest of the garage's open space with no tents for flowering,
with a c02 propane generator. 

i'm wondering if i should have the c02 sensor be located inside the the
tent (so that c02 levels remain constant 24 hours a day) or if that could
be harmful to my flowering plants (to have 1000ppm c02 during their
night schedule) 

thanks 
jason


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## EvlMunkee (Oct 20, 2015)

you don't need CO2 for vegging. shut it off at night


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## Jason Cox (Oct 20, 2015)

im asking if the c02 will hurt the flowering at night... 
i want my veg plants to grow as fast as possible!


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## EvlMunkee (Oct 20, 2015)

yes. at night they take in oxygen and expel CO2. they should supply enough for your veg


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## Entourageeffect (Oct 20, 2015)

Photosynthesis occurs when 3 things are present, Co2, water and light. Since your lights are off photosynthesis is not happening with the absence of light.


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## since1991 (Oct 20, 2015)

EvlMunkee said:


> you don't need CO2 for vegging. shut it off at night


Huh? No co2 for vegging huh? Are you sure about that buddy? No its not needed but its not in flowering either for that matter (unless running a super sealed room). Have you ever properly supplemented carbon dioxide on plants under a vegetation light schedule???????? I have and it makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE IN VEG


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## since1991 (Oct 20, 2015)

CO2 prolongs ripening in the later stages of flowering. Especially if its its high in ppm during lights off. It interacts with ethylene. Ramp your meter/monitor down before lights off. And shut it off completely the last few weeks or so (totally strain dependant)


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## Dr. Who (Oct 22, 2015)

since1991 said:


> Huh? No co2 for vegging huh? Are you sure about that buddy? No its not needed but its not in flowering either for that matter (unless running a super sealed room). Have you ever properly supplemented carbon dioxide on plants under a vegetation light schedule???????? I have and it makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE IN VEG


I've found that the cost to return of Co2 in vegging is not worth it! For sure so if you use bottled Co2..
I don't even turn on my generator till week 3 or after the stretch.....Now I'm getting what I pay for!


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## since1991 (Oct 22, 2015)

Ive found that running co2 in veg greatly reduces veg time and acts as if the plant is on hyper steroids. Many many flowering nodes. Plants have shoots everywhere and are extremely compact, healthy and bushy. This translates into much higher yields in the flower room. I know some growers that use carbon dioxide ONLY in veg.


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## Mustaine4prez (Nov 1, 2015)

Save your money.


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## ttystikk (Nov 1, 2015)

since1991 said:


> CO2 prolongs ripening in the later stages of flowering. Especially if its its high in ppm during lights off. It interacts with ethylene. Ramp your meter/monitor down before lights off. And shut it off completely the last few weeks or so (totally strain dependant)


Only CO² burners will accumulate ethylene, tanks don't. It didn't come from the CO² itself, it's a byproduct of incomplete combustion.


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## ttystikk (Nov 1, 2015)

since1991 said:


> Huh? No co2 for vegging huh? Are you sure about that buddy? No its not needed but its not in flowering either for that matter (unless running a super sealed room). Have you ever properly supplemented carbon dioxide on plants under a vegetation light schedule???????? I have and it makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE IN VEG





since1991 said:


> Ive found that running co2 in veg greatly reduces veg time and acts as if the plant is on hyper steroids. Many many flowering nodes. Plants have shoots everywhere and are extremely compact, healthy and bushy. This translates into much higher yields in the flower room. I know some growers that use carbon dioxide ONLY in veg.


You're giving me ideas...


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## Openears (Nov 10, 2015)

From everything I have researched I agree with 1991 co2 is most important during veg daylight hours with high heat 85 to 95 degrees. Without the heat the 1100-1500 ppm of co2 is useless from what I've researched. Is that true 1991?


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## a mongo frog (Nov 10, 2015)

Openears said:


> From everything I have researched I agree with 1991 co2 is most important during veg daylight hours with high heat 85 to 95 degrees. Without the heat the 1100-1500 ppm of co2 is useless from what I've researched. Is that true 1991?


Research and doing it are 2 different things. Try it in your garden and see if it works for you. Ive been doing 80-81 degrees and 900ppm. Oh and in flower only. But thats just what I've tried and done. And what do you think about vpd?


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## Openears (Nov 10, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Research and doing it are 2 different things. Try it in your garden and see if it works for you. Ive been doing 80-81 degrees and 900ppm. Oh and in flower only. But thats just what I've tried and done. And what do you think about vpd?


I honestly have no experience with any sort of growwing I just am about finished creating a true sealed room and am going to ruin co2 via tanks. I am going to run 1500ppm all through veg and taper down through flower with my end result for the last two weeks of 350ppm. What is vpd? Also how has your co2 grow been going any tricks you've learned. It seems that like you said, reading and research means little until applied in an actual grow.


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## a mongo frog (Nov 10, 2015)

Openears said:


> I honestly have no experience with any sort of growwing I just am about finished creating a true sealed room and am going to ruin co2 via tanks. I am going to run 1500ppm all through veg and taper down through flower with my end result for the last two weeks of 350ppm. What is vpd? Also how has your co2 grow been going any tricks you've learned. It seems that like you said, reading and research means little until applied in an actual grow.


Thats awesome bro!!! Congrats on the sealed room. No tricks really, just make sure you can control your rh during the lights off period. I too do the last to weeks at 350, however I'm at 900ppm from week one till then. As far as how its been going, co2 enrichment is a whole other world. Explosive growth, bigger yields, everything you've heard is true. It did take me a few runs and many sleepless nights to dial it in though.


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## Openears (Nov 10, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Thats awesome bro!!! Congrats on the sealed room. No tricks really, just make sure you can control your rh during the lights off period. I too do the last to weeks at 350, however I'm at 900ppm from week one till then. As far as how its been going, co2 enrichment is a whole other world. Explosive growth, bigger yields, everything you've heard is true. It did take me a few runs and many sleepless nights to dial it in though.


Thanks a lot man, it's good to hear it's working from someone that's applying it. Are you using an environment controller? If so which one is working for you?


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## Openears (Nov 10, 2015)

Oh and are you only using it after veg or throughout, and what is vpd?


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## a mongo frog (Nov 10, 2015)

Openears said:


> Thanks a lot man, it's good to hear it's working from someone that's applying it. Are you using an environment controller? If so which one is working for you?


Iam using a controller chhc4. But as time went on and i got my room under control via A/C dehumidifiers, i realized all i needed was a monitor with a sniffer. Could of saved my 400 bucks or so. Basically i never use any of the functions on the environment controller other then the co2 function.


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## Openears (Nov 10, 2015)

Good to know thanks again man! I'll let you know how it goes.


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## ttystikk (Nov 11, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Thats awesome bro!!! Congrats on the sealed room. No tricks really, just make sure you can control your rh during the lights off period. I too do the last to weeks at 350, however I'm at 900ppm from week one till then. As far as how its been going, co2 enrichment is a whole other world. Explosive growth, bigger yields, everything you've heard is true. It did take me a few runs and many sleepless nights to dial it in though.


I'm finishing up the installation of a 5 Ton heat pump, which will both cool my op and provide heat for effective nighttime dehuey... FREE. After all, I've already paid for that heat once and then paid again to move it out of my grow- why waste it? In addition to dehuey, the excess heat will warm my home, heat my domestic hot water, heat my garage, my hot tub and even my driveway when I get it repoured. FREE!

I'll finally be able to run my grows fully sealed- and of course that means CO² supplementation as well! You mentioned some sleepless nights dialing things in with CO². Can you tell me what to look for and how you dealt with it?


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## hotrodharley (Nov 11, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I'm finishing up the installation of a 5 Ton heat pump, which will both cool my op and provide heat for effective nighttime dehuey... FREE. After all, I've already paid for that heat once and then paid again to move it out of my grow- why waste it? In addition to dehuey, the excess heat will warm my home, heat my domestic hot water, heat my garage, my hot tub and even my driveway when I get it repoured. FREE!
> 
> I'll finally be able to run my grows fully sealed- and of course that means CO² supplementation as well! You mentioned some sleepless nights dialing things in with CO². Can you tell me what to look for and how you dealt with it?


Look into bottom heating indoor grows using the heat pump. Extremely vigorous root development and allows you to keep the room air cooler and makes tighter buds.


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## ttystikk (Nov 11, 2015)

hotrodharley said:


> Look into bottom heating indoor grows using the heat pump. Extremely vigorous root development and allows you to keep the room air cooler and makes tighter buds.


No bueno with RDWC...


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## a mongo frog (Nov 11, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I'm finishing up the installation of a 5 Ton heat pump, which will both cool my op and provide heat for effective nighttime dehuey... FREE. After all, I've already paid for that heat once and then paid again to move it out of my grow- why waste it? In addition to dehuey, the excess heat will warm my home, heat my domestic hot water, heat my garage, my hot tub and even my driveway when I get it repoured. FREE!
> 
> I'll finally be able to run my grows fully sealed- and of course that means CO² supplementation as well! You mentioned some sleepless nights dialing things in with CO². Can you tell me what to look for and how you dealt with it?


So iam burning with an 8 burner. I was watching for temps. I researched but not enough back then. So i ended up buying a 3 ton. I noticed a lot of twisting of leafs at first and frying of some leafs. So i did more research and figured it must of been from vpd (water around the leafs is what i took from it). Got a second dehue and kept temps 80-81 with around 900-1000 ppm. never over 1000. Lights off RH i wasn't ready for, think cuz of the massive amount of co2 they take in the transpire rate in the night cycle is huge. This is all stuff i just did and felt comfortable with. Many others are killing it with 1500ppm with high temps and high RH. Iam just scared to bring temps and RH that high.


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## ttystikk (Nov 11, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> So iam burning with an 8 burner. I was watching for temps. I researched but not enough back then. So i ended up buying a 3 ton. I noticed a lot of twisting of leafs at first and frying of some leafs. So i did more research and figured it must of been from vpd (water around the leafs is what i took from it). Got a second dehue and kept temps 80-81 with around 900-1000 ppm. never over 1000. Lights off RH i wasn't ready for, think cuz of the massive amount of co2 they take in the transpire rate in the night cycle is huge. This is all stuff i just did and felt comfortable with. Many others are killing it with 1500ppm with high temps and high RH. Iam just scared to bring temps and RH that high.


I'm going to run 1500ppm and RH in the high sixties, day and night. You see, it's usually not so much about the plant's transpiring water all night as it is about the cooling system bringing the nighttime temps down, driving RH up. You need heat overnight to keep that from happening, and that's what will keep your plants healthy while you feed them massive doses of CO².


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## a mongo frog (Nov 11, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I'm going to run 1500ppm and RH in the high sixties, day and night. You see, it's usually not so much about the plant's transpiring water all night as it is about the cooling system bringing the nighttime temps down, driving RH up. You need heat overnight to keep that from happening, and that's what will keep your plants healthy while you feed them massive doses of CO².


Sounds like you got it down. What temps are you thinking of running?


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## ttystikk (Nov 11, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Sounds like you got it down. What temps are you thinking of running?


81 daytime, 75 nighttime. Water cooled air handlers will run on high for cooling and low for dehuey. Whenever temps fall below 75 the baseboard heaters will kick on. This keeps temperature up and thus RH down.

I'm aiming for RH in the sixties day and night to help the plant absorb as much additional CO² as possible. Keeping RH stable day and night will also keep powdery mildew at bay.


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## Budley Doright (Nov 14, 2015)

Tty just wondering if the relative humidity is all that important of a reading as it doesn't really give you the moisture content, just how much the the air can hold at that temp. Always been curious about that but never gave it much thought. I guess at normal grow room temps it's kind of a good guide line but still. Don't mind me, got a bag of sativa so been thinking lots lol.


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## ttystikk (Nov 14, 2015)

Budley Doright said:


> Tty just wondering if the relative humidity is all that important of a reading as it doesn't really give you the moisture content, just how much the the air can hold at that temp. Always been curious about that but never gave it much thought. I guess at normal grow room temps it's kind of a good guide line but still. Don't mind me, got a bag of sativa so been thinking lots lol.


Well it's a good question. Here's how it works; what's important to the plants about moisture in the air isn't how much there is, it's how it is interacting with the plants. That's why ideal ranges for RH vary by temperature. See VPD = Vapor Pressure Differential.

The actual quantity of airborne moisture comes into play when temperature falls, like after your lights shut off for the day. As temperature falls, if nothing is done about RH, it will rise precipitously and create all sorts of problems. Yet attacking it directly with condensation coils like in an AC unit can be counterproductive, because the unit might drag the room temperature down with it and maintain high RH even while it removes excess moisture. This defeats the purpose! So what to do?

Add heat. It's that simple; after lights out, add some heat for your dehuey system to work against, and voila! Problem solved!

Adding heat will keep RH down and stable and will promote healthy crops.

Here's a VPD chart;


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## Budley Doright (Nov 14, 2015)

Actually that was what I wanted was the VPD chart I had forgotten the term. Thanks!


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## a mongo frog (Nov 14, 2015)

So who's going with the 81 and 75% RH?


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## WestDenverPioneer (Nov 14, 2015)

I supplement with CO2 at all plant stages.
I never supplement at night.
Tittysticks method is to avoid the dew point and that's why he heats at night just enough to keep it healthy. A lot of people run into problems when they supplement with CO2 because it causes a lot of other variables to act up differently, or to an extreme level that the plant no longer tolerates the environment. You can have so much water vapor in the air that when your room cools your leaves become wet from condensation creating a ripe breeding ground for many bad things.
CO2 in a closed environment is a very advanced technique. It can be very good or it can be very bad. Just like nitrous in an engine, you can blow up a crop with CO2. I go through a ton of gas and I don't care. I also drive a 4x4 with a big motor and it uses a lot of gas too. CO2 is cheap. I don't care. Gas on. Giddyup.


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## WestDenverPioneer (Nov 14, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> So who's going with the 81 and 75% RH?


I don't think I could achieve 75% in Denver even with a shower in the room open and running.
Highs in the Mid 60%'s work well for me, Lows in the 50%'s. Feels like the tropics compared to regular Colorado air.


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## ttystikk (Nov 14, 2015)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> I don't think I could achieve 75% in Denver even with a shower in the room open and running.
> Highs in the Mid 60%'s work well for me, Lows in the 50%'s. Feels like the tropics compared to regular Colorado air.


I see your fifty percent and raise you as high as you want, brother. I got those RH levels, no problem; but then I have massive humidification... the plants themselves.


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## DemonTrich (Dec 12, 2015)

great thread. about to enter the sealed room, dual hose a/c, deheuy, co2 and blueprint dbac2 with fuzzy logic phase of my grow this coming flip in 1 week. big step, and hoping for big returns as well.

bad ass controller, unfortunately only my a/c and co2 will be plugged into it (14A max inputs). the deheuy on its own and will use its onboard functions for on/off.

im not sure ill worry about VDP in flower. been running 75* and 55% for 3 yrs now with great results. my veg room is another story, 82* and 75% thanks to my 9 disc ultrasonic fogger.


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## WestDenverPioneer (Dec 12, 2015)

DemonTrich said:


> 14A max inputs


A consistent problem with all-in-one controllers. Not much can be done about it while running 110v.


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## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2015)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> A consistent problem with all-in-one controllers. Not much can be done about it while running 110v.


Yes it can. Investigate relays.


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## since1991 (Dec 12, 2015)

All in one controllers are largely unnecessary. You will find that a good dehuey and mini split work better using the built in humidistat and thermostat. Save your cash and buy the digital co2 ppm controller/sniffer on its own. I know of many sealed room growers that bought the all in ones with relays and eventually end up using the ppm sniffer part only. Myself included. Its actually not good to hook up dehueys and minis to the co troller with relays. They cycle the compressor to often leading to premature burn out. It doesnt happen all the time but can happen. Any real pro grower with a sealed room with industrial dehuey (santa fe) and a nice mini split will tell you skip hooking the appliances up to a controller. Using the built in stats in the units themselves is much much better. Take it from someonr who speaks from experience.


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## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2015)

since1991 said:


> All in one controllers are largely unnecessary. You will find that a good dehuey and mini split work better using the built in humidistat and thermostat. Save your cash and buy the digital co2 ppm controller/sniffer on its own. I know of many sealed room growers that bought the all in ones with relays and eventually end up using the ppm sniffer part only. Myself included. Its actually not good to hook up dehueys and minis to the co troller with relays. They cycle the compressor to often leading to premature burn out. It doesnt happen all the time but can happen. Any real pro grower with a sealed room with industrial dehuey (santa fe) and a nice mini split will tell you skip hooking the appliances up to a controller. Using the built in stats in the units themselves is much much better. Take it from someonr who speaks from experience.


Sorry, I've been there and done that and my experience has not always supported your strategy. This is home turf for me and I (respectfully) disagree;

Minisplits are fine for home and shop use, but once you get big you need real deal HVAC tonnage.

An all in one controller can work brilliantly as long as it's set up properly. The excessive cycling you mention is an easy problem to fix; just widen the cooling temperature spread, aka increase rise on the controller.

That said, I do advocate that people get individual devices because if an all in one breaks, you're at zero.

The only time it makes sense to use the device's own thermostat is when it's in the area it's supposed to control. Again, past a certain scale, hanging AC units all over the place becomes a loser's game very quickly. What's needed is remote HVAC with at site air handling, and that means water lines and water cooled air handlers.

A permanent facility- like a home, greenhouse or production facility- can greatly improve its performance and efficiency by installing a water based HVAC system. A chiller or heat pump rejects heat from the cold circuit and pumps the heat to the hot circuit. Cold circuit services WCAH- water cooler air handlers, that simultaneously cool and dehumidify the space.

Also, as facilities get larger it only makes sense to have several environmental sensors scattered about to keep various zones in the right conditions. This necessarily means a larger, distributed monitoring and control system and again, not from the front of the box.

Hot circuit picks up the heat rejected by the heat pump and can heat the house/facility and do many other useful power and thus money saving chores. This boosts efficiency and effectiveness substantially as scale increases, directly reducing operating costs and therefore increasing profits.

I've installed a heat pump in my home and it will heat my house and my domestic hot water with heat rejected from my grow. When's the last time you calculated a return on investment for YOUR furnace?!


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## since1991 (Dec 12, 2015)

I guess it depends on the particular situation. For most sealed rooms ive built and came across...hooking the dehuey and mini split up to a controller with relays was a no go. For bigger rooms or areas this could be different. For bigger rooms big hvac units could fare differently.


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## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2015)

since1991 said:


> I guess it depends on the particular situation. For most sealed rooms ive built and came across...hooking the dehuey and mini split up to a controller with relays was a no go. For bigger rooms or areas this could be different. For bigger rooms big hvac units could fare differently.


The answer to that problem is water cooling. Two ton water cooled air handlers are less than five hundred bones. The chiller, scaled up to something your HVAC tech will take seriously, can go anywhere a pair of water lines can reach.


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## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2015)

While chillers aren't the answer to every HVAC problem, minisplits aren't, either.

I'm not trying to start a shitstorm, only pointing out that different situations allow for different approaches, each with its own package of advantages and drawbacks.


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## since1991 (Dec 12, 2015)

I'll be honest...i do not have much experience at all with water chillers. And water cooled conditioning. I know mini splits like the back of my hand though. The whole concept behind cold water for grow rooms kinda turned me off before i even gave it a chance. Stuck in my ways i guess. If anyone out there can enlighten me....feel free.


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## ttystikk (Dec 12, 2015)

since1991 said:


> I'll be honest...i do not have much experience at all with water chillers. And water cooled conditioning. I know mini splits like the back of my hand though. The whole concept behind cold water for grow rooms kinda turned me off before i even gave it a chance. Stuck in my ways i guess. If anyone out there can enlighten me....feel free.


Me. Water is an ideal heat transfer fluid because it's very dense, can't be heated with compression, and it's basically free.

Running all the water lines is a chore- once- but the advantages make it well worthwhile. You can use one chiller to cool multiple systems, even several spaces. If you run two bloomrooms on a flip schedule, the unit will cool them both automatically, saving the need to buy additional capacity.

If you like RDWC, you need water chilling to keep the roots cool. The same water cooling system can supply a cooling coil wherever you need one.

Water cooled air handlers combine room air cooling with dehumidification in one unit that isn't constantly fighting with itself. This saves a shocking amount of power compared to the standard practice of running a compressor based dehumidification unit against an AC unit! And, it delivers more fresh condensate water every day than I can use!

If the homeowner or facility designer chooses a heat pump, then the savings opportunities multiply; all that rejected 'waste' heat can now be recycled for building heat, warming heat in growrooms, domestic hot water heating... I'm even going to try to heat my hot tub!

To recap, water based HVAC isn't for temporary installations, but it saves money by moving heat efficiently from places it's unwanted to places it's welcome. The larger the scale, the better it works and frankly, the less practical other approaches become.


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## WestDenverPioneer (Dec 13, 2015)

I agree with both of you (ttystick and 1991) depending on the grow. 
It's going to depend on the size of the setup. A smaller the setup can use separate controllers or built-in thermostats. A larger grow would benefit from relays and all-in-one controllers.

ANY piece of equipment can fail. We've all experienced a "small" item having a "big" impact in one way or another. I like to build in redundancy for the important things. That's why I sit on the fence of both ttystick and 1991 and use controllers and/with individual built-in items as well for a backup.


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## ttystikk (Dec 13, 2015)

Right now, the backup for my heat pump is the chiller it replaced... and because it's now officially the winter growing season, I can hook up my homemade compressorless chiller. That will save me money the whole time it's running and when it's freezing out can handle THREE Tons of cooling by itself, while pulling just forty watts for the box fan! Ain't no AC unit pulling shenanigans like that!


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## Abucks (Mar 13, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Thats awesome bro!!! Congrats on the sealed room. No tricks really, just make sure you can control your rh during the lights off period. I too do the last to weeks at 350, however I'm at 900ppm from week one till then. As far as how its been going, co2 enrichment is a whole other world. Explosive growth, bigger yields, everything you've heard is true. It did take me a few runs and many sleepless nights to dial it in though.


Agreed! Most people just throw co2 into a room with out any adjustments to, temp, humidity, nutes, and increased water consumption. Then they sit back and wonder why nothing changed or everything is all f:$&@ up. In my experience, every strain has different requirements when augmented with co2. Once you dial it in, you'll never go back!


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## bravedave (Mar 13, 2016)

Going back to earlier...


since1991 said:


> Huh? No co2 for vegging huh? Are you sure about that buddy? No its not needed but its not in flowering either for that matter (unless running a super sealed room). Have you ever properly supplemented carbon dioxide on plants under a vegetation light schedule???????? I have and it makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE IN VEG


While not doubting your experience...I can tell you it certainly does not take much CO2 to produce a successful veg. And while my experience indoors only includes the last 2 winters...I have not really seen a difference in veg results or time in comparison to my non-winter grows even though the rate of room air replenishment was 48 to 1. On the double digit below zero days they often only got new air if or when I opened the door and slid in and out. 
My bud sites seem to be based on my plants and their training...not the amount of CO2 around.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 13, 2016)

bravedave said:


> Going back to earlier...
> 
> While not doubting your experience...I can tell you it certainly does not take much CO2 to produce a successful veg. And while my experience indoors only includes the last 2 winters...I have not really seen a difference in veg results or time in comparison to my non-winter grows even though the rate of room air replenishment was 48 to 1. On the double digit below zero days they often only got new air if or when I opened the door and slid in and out.
> My bud sites seem to be based on my plants and their training...not the amount of CO2 around.


Well perhaps if you ran CO2 you might see an even better growth rate. It's actually a proven method of crop yield increase but yes there is more involved than throwing a tank in your room and opening a valve, tried it lol. Didn't work out to well lol.


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## bravedave (Mar 13, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Well perhaps if you ran CO2 you might see an even better growth rate. It's actually a proven method of crop yield increase but yes there is more involved than throwing a tank in your room and opening a valve, tried it lol. Didn't work out to well lol.


I would if I had a sealed room, but mine are growing just fine, as is.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 14, 2016)

bravedave said:


> I would if I had a sealed room, but mine are growing just fine, as is.


Yup so are mine lol. I have everything sitting in a box to run it but the sealed room is the deal breaker for me. I would need cooling and just don't have the power to do do that in my garden shed . If I was doing this for financial gain then yup perhaps.


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## WestDenverPioneer (Mar 14, 2016)

bravedave said:


> I can tell you it certainly does not take much CO2 to produce a successful veg.


What ppm of CO2 are you starting with?
What ppm of CO2 are you comparing it to?
What ppm of CO2 are you considering "not much CO2"
What is your definition of "produce a successful veg"? (Just because you see plant material you've reached your goal?)
Did you observe any changes in the distances between the nodes on plants with CO2 supplementation vs. those that were left alone?
What was the weight difference between the two at harvest?



bravedave said:


> And while my experience indoors only includes the last 2 winters...


That was me 25 years ago.... give it more time and you'll figure many things out. CO2 supplementation requires more than just adding CO2.
CO2 acts like nitrous does to a gas engine. If you don't have the entire system dialed in you will melt your engine. It takes more than one component to do it. And, adding one part can change an entire system.


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## bravedave (Mar 14, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> What ppm of CO2 are you starting with?
> What ppm of CO2 are you comparing it to?
> What ppm of CO2 are you considering "not much CO2"
> What is your definition of "produce a successful veg"? (Just because you see plant material you've reached your goal?)
> ...


Back up and read what I wrote. No where do I discount CO2's validity. Just pointing out that vegging plants certainly will survive just fine in a grow room that only has its air replenished a few times a week...or am I not to believe what I witnessed? I did not measure node distance, then again nothing was out of the ordinary. 

I threw my experience out there for someone else who might have a similar situation (intake air temps well below ZERO)

You wanna add CO2, knock yourself out.


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## jafro daweedhound (Mar 15, 2016)

Openears said:


> From everything I have researched I agree with 1991 co2 is most important during veg daylight hours with high heat 85 to 95 degrees. Without the heat the 1100-1500 ppm of co2 is useless from what I've researched. Is that true 1991?


Plant growth = uptake/intake - evaporation

85-95 degrees is higher than optimum for maximum plant growth - 70 - 80 degrees from my experience is more productive.

If everything is fine tuned to the optimum for your stain(s), then Co2 can help raise your yield and veg time is no different. Its like compound interest - if you can gain an extra 10% growth each week then the math says you would double the size of your crop after seven weeks.... to bad math don't grow herb......


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## Budley Doright (Mar 16, 2016)

jafro daweedhound said:


> Plant growth = uptake/intake - evaporation
> 
> 85-95 degrees is higher than optimum for maximum plant growth - 70 - 80 degrees from my experience is more productive.
> 
> If everything is fine tuned to the optimum for your stain(s), then Co2 can help raise your yield and veg time is no different. Its like compound interest - if you can gain an extra 10% growth each week then the math says you would double the size of your crop after seven weeks.... to bad math don't grow herb......


Would that extra 10% not equal shorter veg time? Just thinking if it's that much bigger quicker could you not throw it to 12/12 sooner?


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## jafro daweedhound (Mar 16, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Would that extra 10% not equal shorter veg time? Just thinking if it's that much bigger quicker could you not throw it to 12/12 sooner?


Shorter veg time (fewer total hours to reach target size) would be one outcome, Other outcome (space permitting ) would be bigger plants over regular length of veg growth time.


Bigger, faster, happier - got to love Co2. Everything needs to be fine tuned to really see the benefits of Co2, but once achieved the difference in growth rates, size, density, will be well worth the effort. an added benefit will be the increase in turpenne and essential oil production. Thats what separates good buds from the best buds........ but please don't tell anyone......

Happy growing


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## WestDenverPioneer (Mar 17, 2016)

bravedave said:


> You wanna add CO2, knock yourself out.


That's a funny one because there's plenty of people that run CO2 without the proper equipment. Levels reach so high that they passssssss... out. So yeah... go run co2 and knock yourself out 



jafro daweedhound said:


> math don't grow herb......


Grammar don't, but math sure as hell does.



jafro daweedhound said:


> Thats what separates good buds from the best buds


No. It's math. Math does.



jafro daweedhound said:


> but please don't tell anyone......


I just did....




jafro daweedhound said:


> Happy growing


2 + 2 =


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## ttystikk (Mar 17, 2016)

WestDenverPioneer said:


> That's a funny one because there's plenty of people that run CO2 without the proper equipment. Levels reach so high that they passssssss... out. So yeah... go run co2 and knock yourself out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Math grows buds big, boss!


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## powerslide (Jun 30, 2016)

Whats a good stand alone digital co2 ppm controller/sniffer?


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## DemonTrich (Jun 30, 2016)

Blueprint bdac2 ftmfw!!!!


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## powerslide (Jun 30, 2016)

DemonTrich said:


> Blueprint bdac2 ftmfw!!!!


Nope. Just want the CO2 portion.


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## ttystikk (Jun 30, 2016)

jafro daweedhound said:


> to bad math don't grow herb......


Wanna bet?


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## since1991 (Jul 1, 2016)

anything sentinel brand has been solid aces for me.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 1, 2016)

I have a Honeywell c7232, pretty basic but cheap and effective to maintain 1200-1500.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 1, 2016)

I'm not running CO2 now due to logistics of a sealed room but thinking of hooking control up to exhaust so when levels drop it will bring in fresh air to replenish air, any thoughts?


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## ttystikk (Jul 1, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I'm not running CO2 now due to logistics of a sealed room but thinking of hooking control up to exhaust so when levels drop it will bring in fresh air to replenish air, any thoughts?


Won't get you any higher then ambient, which means the vent will stay open all the time.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Won't get you any higher then ambient, which means the vent will stay open all the time.


I don't want it higher than ambient, I just want it not to get to low, my exhaust does not run all the time in the colder months so thinking the room CO2 levels drop to less than optimum. And yes there would be a bit of a differential so hopefully there would be cycling.


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## Grandpapy (Jul 1, 2016)

powerslide said:


> Nope. Just want the CO2 portion.


Trouble free.
http://www.autopilotcontrollers.com/CO2


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## since1991 (Jul 1, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> So who's going with the 81 and 75% RH?


In later flower i dont touch that chart. Only in veg and early-mid flower. I like to drop temps and rh in increments as the weeks and plants countdown. At close to chop (and one room is fairly on the same schedule) my split is down to 68 - 70 degrees and rh is 40 to 50%. But i start high.


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## since1991 (Jul 1, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I don't want it higher than ambient, I just want it not to get to low, my exhaust does not run all the time in the colder months so thinking the room CO2 levels drop to less than optimum. And yes there would be a bit of a differential so hopefully there would be cycling.


Get yerself that Autopilot desktop Co2 reader for 100$ or so. Even if not running gas....its a handy little monitor. Its a trip walking into the room and seeing ambient co2 ppm rise just by breathing. It was alot more than i thought.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 1, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Get yerself that Autopilot desktop Co2 reader for 100$ or so. Even if not running gas....its a handy little monitor. Its a trip walking into the room and seeing ambient co2 ppm rise just by breathing. It was alot more than i thought.


The controller I have does that as well but haven't powered it yet and yes I will tie it into one of the 24v supplies I have in the room. I also have a couple of combustion analyzer's but never checked levels. Just started to think maybe it may tweeking things a bit to maintain at least close to atmospheric levels in a semi sealed room.


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## Aeroknow (Jul 1, 2016)

Grandpapy said:


> Trouble free.
> http://www.autopilotcontrollers.com/CO2


Yup, when I need a co2 controller I buy autopilot nowadays. I have their digital one and their analog one. Both work good, no problems. Naturally, the analog one doesn't have fuzzy logic, but I use them on generators anyways. And it does actually give a readout of current ppm's through a serieries of blinking led's.
I still have a few old C.r.A.P. Ppm2a's in action too though


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## powerslide (Jul 1, 2016)

Grandpapy said:


> Trouble free.
> http://www.autopilotcontrollers.com/CO2


Holy crap!! I remember why i didn't get one before. $530 bones just for the controller. Looks like 115 for the regulator. In a none sealed 8x8x10 room how many bottles do you think you use a week?

Anyone tried the analog version? $200 less...


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## powerslide (Jul 1, 2016)

I found a reg on eBay for $40 so i got that on order. I watched a video on youtubes and the guy didn't even have a monitor. 15min per hour on. I see Aero uses the old Cap stuff, i was looking at a few used ones wondered if they were good enough for a small time runner.


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## Grandpapy (Jul 1, 2016)

powerslide said:


> Holy crap!! I remember why i didn't get one before. $530 bones just for the controller. Looks like 115 for the regulator. In a none sealed 8x8x10 room how many bottles do you think you use a week?
> 
> Anyone tried the analog version? $200 less...


Your local Hydro Shop should give you 25% discount from the start, if not ask the next shop how much would he like your business. My shop keeps a running total on me and it's embarrassing how much I've spent in the last 5 years. So much I changed dealers just to spread the love, oh and a cutie behind the counter at the new place helps.


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## Aeroknow (Jul 1, 2016)

powerslide said:


> Holy crap!! I remember why i didn't get one before. $530 bones just for the controller. Looks like 115 for the regulator. In a none sealed 8x8x10 room how many bottles do you think you use a week?
> 
> Anyone tried the analog version? $200 less...


I have two of their analog ones, but like I said, i only use them on generators. They work fantastic. For bottle co2, you really want fuzzy logic. Not a must, but def better.

I don't use co2 in non sealed rooms, so I couldn't help you with that question about how long they would last in your situation. I do run bottles on some of my setups though. I run 20lb'ers in one of my small rooms. 3-DE lights over 2-4'x8' trays in a 8'x 20' room, a 20lb'er lasts roughly ten days. I use 50lb'ers in a couple of my little bit bigger rooms. One of them is 12'x 14', the room is damn near full of plants, a 50lb'er lasts around 2.5 weeks.



Grandpapy said:


> Your local Hydro Shop should give you 25% discount from the start, if not ask the next shop how much would he like your business. My shop keeps a running total on me and it's embarrassing how much I've spent in the last 5 years. So much I changed dealers just to spread the love, oh and a cutie behind the counter at the new place helps.


25%?????
Holy shit dude, do I miss being down in the bay area for that reason. Up here, I only get 15-20. Usually only 15, an I spend lots of money greedy bastards up here


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## powerslide (Jul 1, 2016)

Had one grow shop and she was a bitch of an old lady, main helper was nice. The helper and one of the customers that frequented the place opened a place, put her out of business within 6mo, then they closed up shop 8mo later. Nothing local anymore that is directed towards this type of crowd, too much online stuff i think for my area. Had to order net pots online the damn local nursery couldn't get them.


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## since1991 (Jul 2, 2016)

Aeroknow said:


> Yup, when I need a co2 controller I buy autopilot nowadays. I have their digital one and their analog one. Both work good, no problems. Naturally, the analog one doesn't have fuzzy logic, but I use them on generators anyways. And it does actually give a readout of current ppm's through a serieries of blinking led's.
> I still have a few old C.r.A.P. Ppm2a's in action too though


Autopilot and Blueprint (sunleaves) are much better quality than the old C.A.P. products. CAP stuff was a joke and the owner ran that company in the ground. I believe thats how Sentinel stuff came about. Ex CAP employees got fed up and started Sentinel. Ive got Autopilot stuff. Solid in my book. I like thier atmosphere and controller gear even more than Titan. Prolly all made in a few factories in China but i still like Autopilot better. I have a GrowOp master digital timer that was really inexpensive and is awesome.


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## since1991 (Jul 2, 2016)

Aeroknow said:


> I have two of their analog ones, but like I said, i only use them on generators. They work fantastic. For bottle co2, you really want fuzzy logic. Not a must, but def better.
> 
> I don't use co2 in non sealed rooms, so I couldn't help you with that question about how long they would last in your situation. I do run bottles on some of my setups though. I run 20lb'ers in one of my small rooms. 3-DE lights over 2-4'x8' trays in a 8'x 20' room, a 20lb'er lasts roughly ten days. I use 50lb'ers in a couple of my little bit bigger rooms. One of them is 12'x 14', the room is damn near full of plants, a 50lb'er lasts around 2.5 weeks.
> 
> ...


I too would never run gas in a vented room ever again. And never again even think about suggesting a timer based co2 system. I ran gas ljke that for along ass time. Wasted alot of money in unused gas thats for sure. Oh...and around here 15-20% discount at best. 25% at a couple stores and thats only if the owner is there. Got a super deal on another 8 bulb t5 recently.


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## since1991 (Jul 2, 2016)

powerslide said:


> Had one grow shop and she was a bitch of an old lady, main helper was nice. The helper and one of the customers that frequented the place opened a place, put her out of business within 6mo, then they closed up shop 8mo later. Nothing local anymore that is directed towards this type of crowd, too much online stuff i think for my area. Had to order net pots online the damn local nursery couldn't get them.


I believe (but have been wrong before) that as the price of smoke drops and outdoor and greenhouse grown becomes more popular in the coming years....the indoor hydroponic hobby shops will start folding up like lawn chairs.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 2, 2016)

since1991 said:


> I believe (but have been wrong before) that as the price of smoke drops and outdoor and greenhouse grown becomes more popular in the coming years....the indoor hydroponic hobby shops will start folding up like lawn chairs.


I just think people are more secure in shopping online now and it's hurting them. And yes outdoor and green house grows may become more popular as they were 20 years ago.


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## Aeroknow (Jul 2, 2016)

since1991 said:


> Autopilot and Blueprint (sunleaves) are much better quality than the old C.A.P. products. CAP stuff was a joke and the owner ran that company in the ground. I believe thats how Sentinel stuff came about. Ex CAP employees got fed up and started Sentinel. Ive got Autopilot stuff. Solid in my book. I like thier atmosphere and controller gear even more than Titan. Prolly all made in a few factories in China but i still like Autopilot better. I have a GrowOp master digital timer that was really inexpensive and is awesome.


Oh yeah dude have I got some horror stories about r&m c.a.p. Like, solenoids getting stuck open on my ng gen1's. Only to ship them back to r&m only to receive it "fixed" with another defective solenoid put in it. This happened with a few of mine, and many of other people I know. Those fuckers!! Propane will run out, ng won't. Sketchy shit man. They use to be bad ass, and than the two brothers got a divorce and the rest was history.
But believe it or not, i still got a few ppm2a's in action. They must have been made before they went to shit.

Oh and I only trust generators that have 2 solenoids in them like most do nowadys.


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## since1991 (Jul 2, 2016)

i remember when CAP first came on the scene. They put Green Air out....and their gear was damn good. And yep....they went downhill a few years later.


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## since1991 (Jul 2, 2016)

Green Air is still aroud i think...but i havent seen thier controllers in stores in a long ass time.


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