# SCROG OFF!! New school vs old school. Sealed rooms- 12 plants.



## legallyflying (Jan 13, 2011)

So frigates and I somehow decided we would have a scrog competition. Mostly I think because he grows in this brown stuff in round containers. Dirt? I think he called it? 

Frogstee has his own thread going right now and I just put 12 plants into the flower room. 

Ground rules: most weight from 12 plants wins the others grow gear. Ok, maybe just bragging rights. Frog can't include his big bud plants dowager final weight (cause schwag doesn't count). Other than that, game on! 

I'll post pics tonight. My frog crushing, state of the art, pimp daddy setup:
3 600 digitals with ushio bulbs on a custom built light mover. 40 sq. Ft. Screen. 12 blue widow and mango kush clones in DIY 4 gallon, hydrotom filled ebb/flow buckets. Co2 controlled by xgc1. Botanicare nutes: bloom, calmag, liquid karma. Root excelerator, liquid light, floranectar. May use shooting powder. 

Frogster going old school with dirt and I believe GH nutes. 2400 watts total but he can fill that in. 

Let the games and smack talk begin


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## frogster (Jan 13, 2011)

The UNDERDOG!! Frogsters info: 1"chicken wire, vegged in gh nutes, screen 16" over buckets,1x1000w Mh through entire grow on a light rail (venture bulb), no CO2, >2sqft per plant (15plants ebb&gro) leaving in gh nova grow at least a week during 12/12 stretch. At 850ppm now going up to 1150 in two stages. 1st time grower, ever, not even in soil!


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## frogster (Jan 13, 2011)

No on the dirt and no on the 2400watts, my room is not sealed.. .. I do believe I am at a very slight disadvantage.... But, Im feeling pretty lucky and I have a few tricks I will incorporate ( sleeping in the grow room for co2, heavy metal music to stress them, and of course praying).. the other 15 plants in the room (on the other side) are growing with just supercropping and 1000watt mh ge bulb...


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## legallyflying (Jan 13, 2011)

Oops, I thought you were in soil. I think my co2 my be the equivalent of nitrous for a drag car but it's all in fun. I came home from work to find my control bucket fill hose out of the bucket and about 10 gallons of nute water on the floor


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## TheOrganic (Jan 14, 2011)

Scrog off hmmm will be watching. Man that sucks on the water that's not the first for ya either huh? Good luck on who wins. Schwag doesnt count thats funny shit.


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## frogster (Jan 14, 2011)

Yep,, another secret weapon of mine,,, you making mistakes!!! lol... PICs, PICs,, my Gosh man,, we need PICS,,, cant have a proper scrogoff without the contenders ... Yea, he just wished he had some of this strain of bigbud,,,, you will see it in the background of my scrog growing like a weed...


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## legallyflying (Jan 14, 2011)

If I wasnt doing final trim and jarring of more than 2 pounds of bud I would have more pics. I need a little army of hippy chicks. Naked and freshly showered would be ideal


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 14, 2011)

Dammit I only have one plant  but shes a monster  I am going to do two next time, let me get in on this we can do some pound for pound rankings.

SCROG OFF 2011!!!!!!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 14, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> If I wasnt doing final trim and jarring of more than 2 pounds of bud I would have more pics. I need a little army of hippy chicks. Naked and freshly showered would be ideal


make them trim it naked so they dont steal anything.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 14, 2011)

You should have diffrent weight classes that varey by room size's so like the smallest rooms will be featherweights, and the largest rooms heavyweight's. Throw a middleweight, and a light heavyweight and we can get some good friendly competition.


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## legallyflying (Jan 14, 2011)

Feather weight? That's all we need, reams of information about how to grow a plant in a computer case...which could prove useful if say, I get divorced, loose my job, and move in with my patents in Ohio. 

Jesus that's depressing lol


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 14, 2011)

Maybe not featherweights, I was thinking my setup would be featherweights, do we really even want to listen to anyone that isn't willing to invest in a HID light.

My grow space is 2'5" by 2'5". So I am pretty small compared to u big dogs.


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## frogster (Jan 14, 2011)

JimB, I know i dont care to see anything under a 400w bulb,,, preferably a cmh if its 400,,, lets see your setup... your holding back!!! Come on legal, takes a couple of secs to do pictures... or is something wrong already,and your just embarrassed? ... Time to PUT UP or shut up!!! lol


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## MightyZeppelin (Jan 14, 2011)

This looks fun...


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## TheOrganic (Jan 14, 2011)

I smell a fight ohya!! I like this scrog off Idea you always see Auto cage matches with CFL(not a Fan) But a Scrog off is great lets watch this unfold.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 14, 2011)

Frogster u can check out my journal in my sig, but here is a quick run down.

I am growing in a secret jardin with a 400W MH/HPS light sorry I have a hortilux MH bulb is this a Ceramic MH bulb when I was at my hydro store the other day the owner didnt even know what a CMH was so what exactly is a CMH?

I am growing one plant in a waterfarm drip bucket, its Reserva Privada's ColeTrain. I will be harvesting the top buds in like 9 or 15 days and then I will drop the light down and let the bottom buds fill in for a couple more weeks while I veg my next grow.

I am going to grow Headband and Pineapple Express, I am going to try and veg a week and a half less on each plant and really fill that screen in. I definitely had room for maybe 10-15 more bud sites that could have yielded a additional 1/4lbs. 

I'll post some pics when I take some new ones later tonight.


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## JimBro (Jan 14, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> make them trim it naked so they dont steal anything.


 make them trim it naked so they will be naked

Who's taking book on this action? I hope this doesn't turn into one of those shit talking threads where nothing ever really gets done. I'm subscribed, so we'll see. May the best weed win.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 14, 2011)

I dont think so, these guys are gonna show up and its gonna be a good grow off.

I loled pretty hard at ur picture I bet that guy is dead after that momma bear got a hold of him.


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## JimBro (Jan 14, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I dont think so, these guys are gonna show up and its gonna be a good grow off.


Agreed. Looking forward to it.



jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I loled pretty hard at ur picture I bet that guy is dead after that momma bear got a hold of him.


Right? It's either Photoshopped or that guy went out like the Grizzly Man.


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## Favre2Harvin (Jan 14, 2011)

*I'm in for the ride, I myself started my own scrog. check it out its in my sig! good luck to both!*


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## frogster (Jan 16, 2011)

Ok, let me think about my lofty goals... Weight wise.... so I have a 1000w mh light over 15 plants on a light rail... area about 4x8... >2sqft per plant,, vegged tall 16"... so Im shooting for a lofty gol of 4oz per plant -10% for not having hps... Thats 60oz -6oz divided by 16 equals 3.375 lb... ok , now reality 1000watt lamp on a light rail, so if great 1gram per watt plus 30% for being on a rail, - my 5-10% for being a mh light... I will say approx 1200grams.. 37.8oz,2.4lb for my scrog...But, I will be happy with anything over 2lb..(1gram per watt) I think the extra vegg and the fact that I can get my light really close with the cool air and the lightrail will get me in that range, even for a first time grower...


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## legallyflying (Jan 16, 2011)

Been busy that's all. I fear no man with less than three hoods  

Here is my setup... That custom light rail picture is a little hard to follow (especially since I still have clamps on it till the epoxy fully cures but it is essentially a small wooden carriage that rolls on garage door track. I hooked my single light rail to the carriage and since their is so little rolling resistance..tadah.. 3 lights moved with a single $180 rail. 

Those plants are 3 days in from the flip. The were vegged about a month.


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## frogster (Jan 17, 2011)

I will for sure win looking at that future mexi-brick you have there....I think you better switch your nutes to Miracle Grow.. That light rail is going to fall on your plants and destroy them when I come by and use my universal remote to activate the garage.. Your plants look a little droopy... sup with that? recovery from transplant? yep, Im feeling a bit more confidant now... Smack talk officially open!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 17, 2011)

Frogster if I was you I would be scared as fuck right now, legally aint fuckin around, this man went and mounted three lights to a light rail!!!!


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## legallyflying (Jan 17, 2011)

Lol true that. AND he just pulled over 2 lbs with 8 plants... 

The look droopy cause I just trained them. You can do that when your not using chicken wire. 

I want to see a video of harvesting out of that setup. My back hurts just thinking about it. 

In the words of Stan Marsh....it's on.


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## JimBro (Jan 17, 2011)

Man, you guys are amateurs. I should have entered my 250W grow.
I had a teacher once tell me that sarcasm in writing is a hard thing to convey. Of course, that was before LOL was a word.
And just to even the odds, Frogster, legal let his secret technique slip out a few days ago...


legallyflying said:


> In the latter stages of flower, when I masturbate in there, the increased activity causes around 800 ppm in total co2 levels. Room volume around 563 cubic feet.


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## TheOrganic (Jan 17, 2011)

Hahahahahaha That's some funny shit I can't believe I missed that, Good place to do it though hahaha!

I hope you don't jizz on plants that's not foliar spray!


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## frogster (Jan 17, 2011)

Damn Jimbro I nearly spit my breakfast out! Welcome fellow Texan ( I just moved) Yea, Three lights on a rail...big deal.. People kill plants that have full sun everyday... Legal, I was talking about your lower leaves drooping, also the lack of vegetative growth under, looks like the nodes are separated really far, cant tell from the pic but it looks like you trimmed these plants ?..


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## headsack (Jan 17, 2011)

Hey legal just had to say that is some pretty sweet work with that light rail. I have never seen anyone who has rigged their light rail to run like that. Nice one bro.


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## headsack (Jan 17, 2011)

frogster said:


> I will for sure win looking at that future mexi-brick you have there....I think you better switch your nutes to Miracle Grow.. That light rail is going to fall on your plants and destroy them when I come by and use my universal remote to activate the garage.. Your plants look a little droopy... sup with that? recovery from transplant? yep, Im feeling a bit more confidant now... Smack talk officially open!


Hate to say it frogster but after seeing what legal has been up to you have just become the definite underdog in this scrog off. I do wish the best of luck to you though and will be interested to see how this turns out. Shit one mistake on legals part and you could have it in the bag, but I wouldn't count on mistakes.


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## frogster (Jan 17, 2011)

Well. Although a complete nube (first grow ever, ever, not even soil) If I get 1gram per watt I feel that I did very well... Im fairly confidant I will get that, as long as major mistakes are avoided... I think I can out gram him per watt, and Im fairly sure my quality will exceed his future Mexican brick.. I think his plants look kinda sad compared to mine (drooping, tips are discolored, nodes spread far out, tons of stretch) but Im pretty sure he will get things dialed in quickly for the flowering... I sure as hell dont want problems with either of us, I want to beat him by having a greater yield due to the smaller screen producing more budsites (that was the initial thing that started the challenge)


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## Serapis (Jan 17, 2011)

Are you able to reach that far back to work your screen? If not, are you cutting access holes from the top of the screen?


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## JimBro (Jan 17, 2011)

frogster said:


> Damn Jimbro I nearly spit my breakfast out! Welcome fellow Texan ( I just moved)


Yeah, I thought it was pretty funny, too. And I've never been to CO, but have always wanted to live there for some reason. Just found out through RIU that's it's a legal state, so that gives me added motivation.

As far as the competition goes, both y'all's plants look good. The last poster brought up something I had not thought about. Both you guys' screens are huge. How do you train the plants in the middle, back?


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## legallyflying (Jan 17, 2011)

Ill tell you what, if you yield a gram a watt i will start doing yoga again until i can suck my own dick  I need to do final weigh in this week for the last crop but 2.7 pounds with 8 plants and 1800 watts only equals about .69g/watt. Grams per watt works best with SOG I think. 5.4 oz per plant is pretty god damned good in most peoples book. 

Admittedly the front two plants are a little droopy, they have bounced back but I put the worst of the bunch on the edge of the screen. Don't know why some of the tips look washed out, flash bounce off the bubble insulation? 

They only look stretchy as I trimmed off all lower bud sites and growing shoots. I did keep cooler night time temps during veg to get them a little more stretched. Ran into scrog issues last time with super compact plants

It's not all about bud sites, I went gonzo last run and flowered every site. Ended up with 15 gallons of wet popcorn. Still got dried buds in excess of 2.5 oz each but I think limiting the bud sites is a better way to go given the space issues of the scrog and limitations of HID lights. 

Keep talking smack and I'll install my new mega ray UVB lamp.


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## legallyflying (Jan 17, 2011)

JimBro said:


> Yeah, I thought it was pretty funny, too. And I've never been to CO, but have always wanted to live there for some reason. Just found out through RIU that's it's a legal state, so that gives me added motivation.
> 
> As far as the competition goes, both y'all's plants look good. The last poster brought up something I had not thought about. Both you guys' screens are huge. How do you train the plants in the middle, back?


MY screen is 5 feet wide and I can get shuffle around on all sides so it really isn't a problem. There is only about a week of real training anyways. My varietys (blue widow and mango kush) only stretch fast for a about 7 days. During this time they grow about 2" a day. After that they really slow down. I want the plants higher above the screen this time so I am "sacrificing" a little density for more height. Its pretty brutal under the screen as in..next to no light. I don't have time between harvests to do a staged "cut the upper" and let the lower ripen so I just want them all to ripen at about the same time.


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## frogster (Jan 17, 2011)

Well my man, start stretching... Im fairly confidant in my 1gram per watt goal... I almost have double the plants from your other grow and im on a light rail..... I havnt trimmed my lower branches yet, its pretty damn dark under there! I thought trimming was done later? when leaves start turning yellow... I still have fairly close bud sites reaching for the screen...


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## frogster (Jan 17, 2011)

So Legal is about to let the plants go, hes wanting less, but larger buds.. Seems like a waste of scrog screen to me, supercropping would have achieved the same perhaps,,, Im shooting for at least 4 bud sites per sq ft... I have about 30sqft of screen, so that would be 120 1oz buds .. lol,, I wish


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## legallyflying (Jan 17, 2011)

There are areas where I have well over 8 bud sites in a square foot and there area areas that I have one or two. No, super cropping would not do the same thing. 

OK, maybe we should set another ground rule. Like perhaps you don't act like you know everything.... I can remember a time (like what, 6 weeks ago? that you needed some serious hand holding). 

I'm going for overall larger USABLE yield. I don't play the whole itty bitty popcorn bud bullshit route. I was literally "shucking" shit loads of popcorn off the last grow. And I mean grabbing the bottom of the stem with a glove on and ripping all the little buds off and tossing them in a bucket. 

You'll see. Your plants look great, but I kind of predict your SCROG is going to become a fucking mess shortly. That chicken wire dude, oooh that chicken wire. LMFAO


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## legallyflying (Jan 17, 2011)

frogster said:


> I havnt trimmed my lower branches yet, its pretty damn dark under there! I thought trimming was done later? when leaves start turning yellow...


Interesting. I dunno what you should do. I know what I would do, but apparently, all of a sudden, I don't have any idea what the fuck I'm doing.


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## frogster (Jan 17, 2011)

Im just smack talking legal, No offense
intended .. . I know just just enough to keep the damn plants alive,, lol... Im sure your buds are going to look like the leaning tower of Pisa soon.. I can reach the back of my screen , not too bad of a stretch. The dj's blueberry are sure stretching on the side without the scrog, and I have been fighting down a few of the big buds by supercropping, but Im finished supercropping and Im going to let them go now. I may suppliment a few of the plants near the end walls with cfl's as the lightrail doesn't get all the way to the end of the wall. ppm is at 1150 and they are taking 4-5 gallons of water a day.. Lights out temps are about 63-65 and lights on around 73-78.. No critters to be found (yet).... Im not sure when I will trim the lower vegetation off, Im thinking when they are close to finishing stretch? Why did you chose the time that you did? Not wanting energy going into lower small budsites that will be trimmed at a later date? Suppose I better start researching this shit before I waste plant growth... Im still sticking with 1gram per watt... gotta have a decent goal...


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## frogster (Jan 17, 2011)

Holy Crap! Opinions concerning when , how or not at all except really dead leaves when it comes to trimming lower leaves is more controversial than what nutes to use! Seems more dependent on strain and personal preference. I didnt read anything confirming more overall yield by massively trimming undergrowth, but as you mentioned, you are shooting for larger overall quality buds than a few great ones with a mixed buffet below... I can see&understand a higher yielding of higher quality amount of bud by trimming... I found it interesting that some opinions lean towards leaving everything on as "nature intended" and nature and millions of years of genetics will dictate whats best for the plant.... One caveat with that theory: There is nothing natural placing the plants in the environment that we subject them too.(massive lighting, massive nutrients, massive manipulation).. lol so, I think that theory is out the window! I think I will leave the undergrowth for awhile (end of stretch) and do a really light under trim, I dont care to stress the plants with my newbie trimming techniques, and I dont mind dealing with popcorn, seems like I would be missing out on the experience you mentioned....Similar to a buddy of mine who cant get brainfreeze from a slurpee, he actually feels like he's missing out on the experience.... Time for a rez change already (last was on the 11th), Time is Flying Legal, I will be switching to the novabloom formula...


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## legallyflying (Jan 18, 2011)

Totaled up the last grow....

1245 grams : 43.9 ounces : 2.74 pounds 

 felt like Tony Montana when it was all in one huge pile


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## frogster (Jan 18, 2011)

Tony Montana... thats funny... Things to do with 2.74lb of mmj.. 1. Since you mentioned Tony: break out a huge 4ft bong in front of your friends and yell- Say hello to my little friend... 2. You can stuff a pillowcase and sleep on it...3. Go to a strip club and clear the place out on a saturday night,Party at your house! Dont think the Mrs. Legal would like the clean up the next day. 4. According to 80gram you can trade it. (dont ask) 5. At random ship 1gram to 1245 various politicians and clergy, you would prob. get 1000 new customers. 6. And finally : It would be awesome to mix it with 100lb of semi cooked brownie mix. pile it on a table, mold it into a mountain and eat it till the aliens come and get you (close encounters, 3rd kind)


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## JimBro (Jan 18, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Interesting. I dunno what you should do. I know what I would do, but apparently, all of a sudden, I don't have any idea what the fuck I'm doing.


Don't feel bad, happens to me all the time. Sometimes it whill comghj bjadc orhgded tiz t dnt;



frogster said:


> Im sure your buds are going to look like the leaning tower of Pisa soon..


 I think you mean the leaning tower of _*Pizza*_...how embarrassing for you.



legallyflying said:


> felt like Tony Montana when it was all in one huge pile


Imagine how different that movie would have been had MJ been his product.


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## frogster (Jan 18, 2011)

Im correct Jimbo, But your tower is interesting! 
*Leaning Tower of Pizza*

*From Uncyclopedia, the content-free encyclopedia.*

Jump to: navigation, search
_&#8220;Mmmmmm.... pizza....&#8221;_*~ Homer Simpson on The Leaning Tower of Pizza*​ The Leaning Tower of Pizza is not inclined as it might seem on first view. Actually it's the world under it that is twisted.


The *Leaning Tower of Pizza* is the only structure in Italy that is currently not demolished to make way for crack houses and apartment blocks. It is made of hundreds of pizzas that are piled up to form a tower. During the centuries, the Tower of Pizza has fallen down and been rebuilt on very many occasions. It is a mystery why a stable perpendicular tower like that of but that it happens very often is empirical fact. 
One common theory about the instability of the Tower of Pizza is, that the pizzas of this tower gradually turn into pizza fungi, as they get more and more infested with fungus. 
Another theory is that the hobos of Italy come to nibble on the tower for begging energy. Over many years the tower becomes lacking in stability due to the missing side that has been eaten. 
The Pizza tower, moments before the cheese started to melt.


As an experiment, a statistician recently obtained four photographs of the Tower in Italy. He specifically requested that each photograph should be a view which was 90 degrees around the tower from the previous one. When he analaysed these photographs he found that two showed the tower to be vertical, one showed it leaning to the left and one showed it leaning to the right. He then obviously concluded that the Tower was in fact vertical on average. *Contents*

[hide]


1 Humiliation
2 History
3 Li Ning Tower of Pisa
4 See also
 *Edit Humiliation*

Due to the half-assed job that the architect did on it, the tower has been a horrible embarrassment for Italy since day one. To really rub it in, in the days following its completion Michelangelo (the rival of the tower's creator) raised a poll, collected the results, and closed it. The results showed that _110%_ of voters hated the tower, so it claimed the hard-hitting title 'most rubbishest building ever'. One would have thought they would have knocked or burnt it down, but they didn't. But still, it has been 800 humiliating years and the tower is still the unrivaled holder of this title. 
*Edit History*

The tower was originally built in the 2008 by some fat, stoned Italian man to house his mistress, who was also built. Leonardo built the tower using a method of Pizza Architecture called "_alternating slice/stack triangulation_". He began with slices of sausage and mushroom alternating with Canadian Bacon for the first layer. Subsequent layers included ham and pineapple, pepperoni, green peppers and anchovies. 
Most pizza architects agree that Leonardo's problem was that he did not use extra cheese. Extra cheese in the early layers would have caused the subsequent layers of pizza to adhere better, and would have prevented both the inherent instability and the accumulation of moisture that led to the growth of pizza fungus. 
But the tower still stands still because of a unique receipt of mozzarella that prevents slipping. The fact is commonly known as mozzarellization and has become since then the most commonly used glue in the world. 
This tower has been featured in the movie _Deuce Bigalow: European Gigalo_! 
*Edit Li Ning Tower of Pisa *

It is not to be confused with the Li Ning Tower of Pisa, which is a monumental, phallic sculpture, designed by Pong Lee Xu, located in a park near St. Elizabeth's Hospital, a mental institution, in the suburbs of Washington, D.C.If it was not obvious enough, this tower was created by the Chinese basketball shoe company called Li Ning, known for exploiting Chinese children laborers in sweatshops and enjoying eating pizza. Their love for pizza was the reason why they created this structure. 
*Edit See also *


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## frogster (Jan 18, 2011)

Legals going for the buds that are wider than a 2 liter coke bottle... I see string (rope!) in his future.. Holding buds that are swaying in the breeze like wheat.. huge fucking wheat! Well you may have been kidding but you still made me double check myself..lol


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## JimBro (Jan 18, 2011)

HA!...nice. I was totally kidding, though. Actually, when I was a kid, I did think it was Pizza. I was a little dumbass, what can I say?

I never heard of that website. That's freakin' awesome.


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## TheOrganic (Jan 18, 2011)

FYI there is OG kush from reserva privada available at Attitude.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 18, 2011)

JimBro said:


> HA!...nice. I was totally kidding, though. Actually, when I was a kid, I did think it was Pizza. I was a little dumbass, what can I say?
> 
> I never heard of that website. That's freakin' awesome.


We were all little dumbasses.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 18, 2011)

TheOrganic said:


> FYI there is OG kush from reserva privada available at Attitude.


 I got that headband from reserva privada, its OG Kush x Sour Diesil. Gonna start that in a week or so.


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## legallyflying (Jan 19, 2011)

I heard headband was a pretty sweet strain. I have some endless sky from dr. green thumbs vegging right now. http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/Endless_Sky/Dr_Greenthumb/ http://www.medicalmarijuanastrains.com/endless-sky/

I also have three Ice that are from non-feminized seeds. Going to see how that goes. God I hate seeds, I'm just not good with them, never was. Out of 10 white rhino seeds I ended up with zero females... I'm sure there were females in there but I killed them. Killed 5 seedlings the first go, then killed 2 of the next five. Vegged three of them to about 2 feet.....all males  

Then I was like, fuck it, I live in a medical state, I'll just go buy some clones  

The endless skys are INCREDIBLY DENSE. There are like midget plants. Interesting to see how they scrog. 

Anyways, this is day 7 of flower for me. Plants are doing very well and drank up around 120 PPM of nutes from the 50 gallon rez over the course of the week. I topped of with a little balanced fresh nutes and brought it back up to around 950 last night, with a fresh dose of h2o2. Figure I'll wait till this weekend to give them a nute solution with little nitrogen and also switch back to my HPS lamps. 

I installed my MH lamps as I kind of view the first week as veg. 

The screen isn't packed to the kills, nor did I really expect it to be.


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## frogster (Jan 19, 2011)

Im PISSED! Went to the Hydro store yesterday, going to get a bottle of novabloom for my rez change,, The "GURU" with a chemistry degree talked me into Humboldts a&b... He gave the rundown, Amino acids , no salt buildups, yadda, yadda... And then he showed how you use less according to the feed chart.4-5 ml per gal. ( I cant afford all the fancy extra crap) He said the ab alone are great and dont worry about ppm,,, He said thats what he uses... well, I go home, dump the rez, start heating the water (too damn cold) and finally at 4a.m dump in the recommended amount of a then b,,,, woohoo a whopping 390ppm out of 500ml total!! Holy crap, this stuff is designed to where you have to run their whole schedule to get to the desired ppm..I thought that, but he kept telling me different. I did tell him the P was way low and the Mag was extremely low too for a complete bloom formula, he claimed its alright.... I call bullshit on this product and im going back today to get the crap I want. I also see their ONENESS product, an all in one, but on the feed schedule it calls for all the other crap also, sea mag etc etc.... I believe the whole product line may be a decent line (plenty of good repots), but I cant afford it... 500ml of novabloom would put me at 1000ppm , and it has plenty of n,p,k and mag... Although I will check out the dyna grow combo that Homebrew used on his nute comparison...


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## legallyflying (Jan 19, 2011)

uh oooh. This is getting easier


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## frogster (Jan 19, 2011)

Maybe not Legal. I spent about 5hrs today at the hydro store,,, testing each of the humboldt products per ml per gallon... 1ml of a or b =30ppm increase... the sea mag is 20ppm per 1ml per gallon and the ginormous is 65ppm... Upon speaking with the company rep he explained that since the formula doesnt have the same salts as other brands that the ppm will be lower (thats the easy to understand version), but the nutes will still be available... Considering a quart of the sea mag&ginourmous will last through the entire grow and i damn sure dont want to change out my rez again, , I went ahead and bit the bullet and bought them... I have read nothing but great things from everyone who has used these nutes,,, they will also work better with my bennies& have a better nute available over the ph spectrum... Guess it wont take long to find out..


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## legallyflying (Jan 19, 2011)

Wait a minute. Page 4 paragraph C of the 2011 SCROG OFF clearly states no switching of nutrient lines during the competition. I thought you were going to run GH schwag the whole run. Going to have to put it to the judges...


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## frogster (Jan 19, 2011)

Break out the rule book because you may really love my next possible move.. was going to post it, But I will wait to see if I can do it...


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 19, 2011)

Fuckin hydro shops, the place I go too always tries and stops me from spending money. I asked about why they didn't sell advanced nutrients they said, they sell some other over priced brand with 10 different bottles and fancy labels. He grabs a bottle of floranova and says this has everything in it that those 5 different bottles do and its 1/8 of the price.


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## legallyflying (Jan 19, 2011)

Yeah. The shops can make or break you. Hard to get solid advice at times. A hydro owner that I trust steered me towards botanicare with limited suplements and I have been really happy. He told me that over the last 7 years he tried them all and always came back to botanicare. 

Frogster, I'm excited to see what this big change is. It's not real light bulbs is it?


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## frogster (Jan 19, 2011)

OK, I will spill the beanz, I am working on separating my room, and using 2000watts over the scrog for 12hrs, then the lights go over the supercropped girls for 12hrs.... I have the venting, light seperation and the control box figured out.. Just wondering about the light rail being turned to move the lights, prob. just move the lights manually everyday.... The extra yield should be worth the hassle for now....


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## JimBro (Jan 19, 2011)

Apparently, legallyflying didn't see Amendment 14 to Paragraph C of page 4 ratified by me and the dude in my avatar that clearly states that since this is Frogster's first grow, he can change up anything he wants because, honestly, he's going to end up like that guy in my avatar if he doesn't. Don't take offense, though, Froggy, because this is coming from a tool holding a bear cub and a cat that threw two regular seeds in a DWC scrog only to find out two months later they were both dudes...and then grew out another one that is starting to look a little boyish. If Jack Herer weren't already dead, I'd kill him. Too soon for JH jokes?

Nutrients are one aspect of growing I have neglected to study so far. I don't have an EC meter, so I have just been using RO water and the Lucas formula with 'GH schwag'. I'm assuming you advise against that, Legal (or Frog, or Atheist)? I guess I gotta step up my game at some point, eh?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 19, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Yeah. The shops can make or break you. Hard to get solid advice at times. A hydro owner that I trust steered me towards botanicare with limited suplements and I have been really happy. He told me that over the last 7 years he tried them all and always came back to botanicare.
> 
> Frogster, I'm excited to see what this big change is. It's not real light bulbs is it?


 I asked my guy about botanicare, he had nothing but nice things too say as well. He did say that the sweet is was expensive. I actually used botanicare when I grew in soil it was pretty solid and inexpensive stuff.

Do you use the sweet, is it worth that hefty price tag?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 19, 2011)

JimBro said:


> Apparently, legallyflying didn't see Amendment 14 to Paragraph C of page 4 ratified by me and the dude in my avatar that clearly states that since this is Frogster's first grow, he can change up anything he wants because, honestly, he's going to end up like that guy in my avatar if he doesn't. Don't take offense, though, Froggy, because this is coming from a tool holding a bear cub and a cat that threw two regular seeds in a DWC scrog only to find out two months later they were both dudes...and then grew out another one that is starting to look a little boyish. If Jack Herer weren't already dead, I'd kill him. Too soon for JH jokes?
> 
> Nutrients are one aspect of growing I have neglected to study so far. I don't have an EC meter, so I have just been using RO water and the Lucas formula with 'GH schwag'. I'm assuming you advise against that, Legal (or Frog, or Atheist)? I guess I gotta step up my game at some point, eh?


Ohh yea, dont u wanna grow pounds.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 19, 2011)

frogster said:


> OK, I will spill the beanz, I am working on separating my room, and using 2000watts over the scrog for 12hrs, then the lights go over the supercropped girls for 12hrs.... I have the venting, light seperation and the control box figured out.. Just wondering about the light rail being turned to move the lights, prob. just move the lights manually everyday.... The extra yield should be worth the hassle for now....


 Thats actually a great idea, the only part that makes me nervous is the constant moving u are just asking for a accidental drop of the light.


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## JimBro (Jan 19, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Ohh yea, dont u wanna grow pounds.


 At this point, I will be happy with one single female bud. Werd.


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## legallyflying (Jan 19, 2011)

I would think that light blockage would be the difficult part. You could easily set something like I have, but instead of having the light move back and forth from room to room on the garage track. Light rail, digital electric timer set for two minutes of on. Turns on, rail moves to other side, pauses and then is powered off. 

Easy peezy


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## JimBro (Jan 19, 2011)

by the way, Frog, how is that chicken wire working? Is it becoming a pain or do you think it will work?


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## frogster (Jan 19, 2011)

No problems with the wire Jimbro.... Just really not sure when to stop stuffing and weaving back under it... Lots of budsites in the middle... i just want to get a few more on the ends.. Im working everything that way. Changing up the the lights right now, although great for yield, just sounds like too much of a pain in the ass to deal with, regardless of the extra yield... This setup will be taken down&sold after this grow, I plan on having a huge basement for my next grow... hydro Verticle stadium sog... The only way to grow. With correct bulbs of course...


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## legallyflying (Jan 20, 2011)

in regards tot eh botanicare sweet, I dont't use it, the same hydro guy steered me towards fllorunectar as it has three different sources of sugar in it as opposed tothe one that sweet has in it.He also waved me off from hydroplex saying that it wasn't necessary. Right now 
I'm really trying to figure out what kind of sugars to use for foliar feeding and their concentrations. I really like liquid light and it sure seems that it is carbo loaded but the ingredients are a compete mystery. Started spraying liquid karma at the suggested dilution, too early to tell but I will start a regular regime soon. Some kind of sugar, fulvic acid, and a hormone or two would be great as well towards the end of flower.

Jimbro...dude, you NEED to buy a ec meter. Your driving blindfolded growing in hydro without one.


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## JimBro (Jan 20, 2011)

going vertical, eh...there's another thread I'd subscribe to - Hori ScrOG vs. Vert SOG...there's some good Vert pros and cons brought up in this Urban Garden article...huge basement seems ideal...unfortunately, as you know, ain't no basements in Texas


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## JimBro (Jan 20, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Jimbro...dude, you NEED to buy a ec meter. Your driving blindfolded growing in hydro without one.


 Agreed. I put it off while building the cab and learning the basics. Time to nut-up.


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## legallyflying (Jan 20, 2011)

frog, you may give that urban gardner artiel a read. I thought a vertical SOG was such a killer idea but after reading that article,it really does sound like a difficult pain in the ass. Sooo many tings to go wrong..with just a tiny bit more yield. 

Not for me my friend. In regards too your SCROG, you REALLY ought to let them go by now. And I mean REALLY. They are going to stop stretching soon and all those bud sites that your drooling over...they are not going to get shit for light and grow up into the tiny holes if the buds do get big and its going to be a trainwreck.

Noway to know for sure as I'm not standing there, just my 2 cents.


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## frogster (Jan 20, 2011)

Let them go I will then, thx... The other areas that don't have many budsites will fill in, I can see budsites stretching and getting close to the screen... As far as stadium sog goes, i suppose if you have plenty of space, why bother with the stadium part , sog in a flood&drain table...... Lumen per lemen though, I believe stadium verticle sog is most gram per watt, have you read Heath Robinsons grow? pretty damn amazing. I have plenty of time to figure out my next operation... Im hoping to have a few working models of my new lighting system to test out by then... I plan on sending a few out to you guys to grow with it and do a journal...


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## legallyflying (Jan 20, 2011)

I dunno dude, read that article. Something about generating 80 clones at once and then having them all establish at the same rate and grow at the same rate to really make the stadium grow work just seems troublesome. The stadium shelf grows look legit but the vertical coliseum grows.. Uggh. 

Don't be seduced by the whole gram/watt thing. People like to tech out and all but you'll never find many commercial growers that employ such laborious and tedious methods. Simple, healthy, effective


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## xivex (Jan 20, 2011)

Hey LF, I dunno how the fuck I missed this but damn bro, send me a PM next time!  I wanna watch this! 

Catching up on the thread right now...LF your light mover seems sick. You've got tons of light bro. I'm gonna revamp everything in my room before next cycle as well. Learned tons already from this first noob grow, next cycle will be hopefully semi-pro! 

This thread wins...good to see that friendly "competition" and smack talking are still alive!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 20, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> in regards tot eh botanicare sweet, I dont't use it, the same hydro guy steered me towards fllorunectar as it has three different sources of sugar in it as opposed tothe one that sweet has in it.He also waved me off from hydroplex saying that it wasn't necessary. Right now
> I'm really trying to figure out what kind of sugars to use for foliar feeding and their concentrations. I really like liquid light and it sure seems that it is carbo loaded but the ingredients are a compete mystery. Started spraying liquid karma at the suggested dilution, too early to tell but I will start a regular regime soon. Some kind of sugar, fulvic acid, and a hormone or two would be great as well towards the end of flower.
> 
> Jimbro...dude, you NEED to buy a ec meter. Your driving blindfolded growing in hydro without one.


I used Earth Juice catalyst in the past because it is very resonabley priced, I will look into that floraunectar ummm three different suggers the girls should love that.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 20, 2011)

Jimbro get yourself a cheap hanna PPM meter off ebay or eseasongear.com they are cheap and will work great for a year u can use that untill u get a good one thats what I am doing.

This is what i got a lot of other growers use it too, its the hanna primo u can get it for 15.00 on ebay just make sure to get a bottle of calibrating solution along with it u will want to calibrate probably once a month. Recently at my hydro store the guy said I should be calibrating my pH meter at least once a week. He was right I went home and checked it the thing was .2 off and I had calibrated a few weeks before that. Im not sure how ofton to callibrate the PPM meter really I just use it too get a ball park figure.

View attachment 1392644


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## xivex (Jan 20, 2011)

OK just caught up to this bitch.  Subbed and +REP to all of you!  One love. LF is very knowledgable guys, he's helped me a ton...frog I'd listen to what he says..  

Just my $0.02..



Thanks,

X


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 20, 2011)

xivex said:


> OK just caught up to this bitch.  Subbed and +REP to all of you!  One love. LF is very knowledgable guys, he's helped me a ton...frog I'd listen to what he says..
> 
> Just my $0.02..
> 
> ...


True that, Legally definitely was there to help me with my first hydro grow.


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## frogster (Jan 20, 2011)

Ahh, just off th ephone with the Humboldt guys,,, Thorough explanation why the ppm reading is so low... Less inert salts than other brands... I did run across a couple of grows that the plants couldnt handle more than 600ppm without burning up... Im sitting at 850ppm total right now (200+ppm left over from previous nutes in buckets) the ppm crawled up 10ppm from last nights 12hr cycle.. so perhaps these nutes are way stronger at a lower ppm rate.. I found the Humboldts 1/2 price at bghydro online.... so , im going to try to stick it out... The floranova is strong, i could visibly see the salt build up from them, and I dont think my bennies liked them,,, Im pretty sure the high salts were killing my bennies off.. I had ph always swinging up, pretty sure from the bennies dying and being eaten up in the system... . Time will tell... Jim, Ive heard nothing but good things from the Earth juice products ... Oh trust me, , Im listening&watching legal,,, but this thread still requires a certain amount of smack talk...subsection 4 article b.. "At anytime , either contestant may say anything, regardless if its comprehensible to others intellect" with that being said, I still plan on out weighing him per watt...


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## JimBro (Jan 20, 2011)

Thanks for the info, Atheist. I went with the Hanna Combo pen and it should be here tomorrow. Got the calibration crap too, so I should be good to go.

Glad you found the thread, Xivex. It's been a good one so far and I can't wait to see the end result. *Speaking of which, I think it's about time for some progress photos?* And I gotta check out your LSD grow. I think that one's gonna be on deck for me.

I'll look into those nutes, Frog. I need to study overall nute philosophy, though. That sounds gay, but I don't really know what PPM is good or what it says about what shit is needed. But I'm definitely in the right place to learn all that doodoo. Especially now that I got a feel for who's fool of crap and who ain't.


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## frogster (Jan 20, 2011)

Well, nutes are a hot topic.. everyone has an opinion... I went with the humboldts for particular reasons... Your system and setup may do better with another line of nutes... Find a grow journal that is similar to your and copy it, you should receive similar results. I just received this PM from another member on rollitup that uses Humboldts. "I follow the ml/p gallon exactly and am getting fantastic results. Stick with it man! When you get your first harvest and everything turns out top shelf, then you'll love it. 

You should really use the flavorful and hum-bolt (at least the flavorful). It'll help with nutrient uptake a lot. With those added the ppms are pretty right on the money in my experience. 

I've been using a modified version of the humboldt nuts line for a few years now and unless something else goes wrong I get top shelf bud every time. (I don't use big up powder or their carbs though, I sub MOAB and bud candy there)


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## legallyflying (Jan 20, 2011)

Flavorfull is going to increase nutrient uptake? Via what mechanism? At any rate, I'm sooo over the nutrient debate. Organic nutes can and do produce good product. I wouldn't advise anyone to follow another grow journal though; or at least be really cautious. I learned that lesson the hard way.


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## frogster (Jan 20, 2011)

Via Humic&Fulvic&URIC acid ... Im getting enough humic and fulvic through my microbial tea,,, cheap as hell too! I get the Uric just pissing in my rez,,, Son cught me pissing in a gallon jug one day, thought it was funny till I asked him to top it off... .. Heres a little something about EWC and the benefits they provide in your grow.. compliments of thos fine link: http://www.tastefulgarden.com/wormcastings.htm * What Are Worm Castings?
* Worm Castings contain a highly active biological mixture of bacteria, enzymes, remnants of plant matter and animal manure, as well as earthworm cocoons (while damp). The castings are rich in water-soluble plant nutrients, and contain more than 50% more humus than what is normally found in topsoil.
Worm Castings are packed with minerals that are essential for plant growth, such as concentrated nitrates, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium and calcium. It also contains manganese, copper, zinc, cobalt, borax, iron, carbon and nitrogen. However, the best of all is that these minerals are immediately available to the plant, without the risk of ever burning the plant. Remember that animal manure and chemical fertilizers have to be broken down in the soil before the plant can absorb them.
 As the organic matter moves through the alimentary canal of the earthworm, a thin layer of oil is deposited on the castings. This layer erodes over a period of 2 months. So although the plant nutrients are immediately available, they are slowly released to last longer. The




cocoons in Worm Castings each contain between 2 and 10 eggs that hatch within 2 weeks. This means that the process of decomposition are continued by the young earthworms in the soil, provided that the soil is loose, damp and rich enough in organic matter for the worms to stay alive.
The bacteria in the alimentary canal of the earthworm transforms organic waste to natural fertilizer. The chemical changes that the organic wastes undergo include deodorizing and neutralizing. This means that the pH of the castings is 7 (neutral) and the castings are odorless (they smell like a forest after rain). The worm castings also contain the bacteria, so the process is continued in the soil, and microbiological activity is promoted.
*What can Worm Castings be used for?*
Worm Castings can be used as an ingredient of potting soil (as plant nutrients) for plants in and around the house. It can also be used as a planting additive for trees, vegetables, shrubs and flowers. When used as mulching material, Worm Castings will ensure that the minerals are absorbed directly into the soil when it is watered. Because Worm Castings will never burn plants, you can use as much of it as you like.
*Benefits of Worm Castings*​ 1. The humus in the worm castings extracts toxins and harmful fungi and bacteria from the soil. Worm Castings therefore have the ability to fight off plant diseases.
2. The worm castings have the ability to fix heavy metals in organic waste. This prevents plants from absorbing more of these chemical compounds than they need. These compounds can then be released later when the plants need them.
3. Worm Castings act as a barrier to help plants grow in soil where the pH levels are too high or too low. They prevent extreme pH levels from making it impossible for plants to absorb nutrients from the soil.
4. The humic acid in Worm Castings stimulate plant growth, even in very low concentrations. The humic acid is in an ionically distributed state in which it can easily be absorbed by the plant, over and above any normal mineral nutrients. Humic acid also stimulates the development of micro flora populations in the soil.
5. Worm Castings increase the ability of soil to retain water. The worm castings form aggregates, which are mineral clusters that combine in such a way that they can withstand water erosion and compaction, and also increase water retention.
6. Worm Castings reduce the acid-forming carbon in the soil, and increase the nitrogen levels in a state that the plant can easily use. Organic plant wastes usually have a carbon-nitrogen ratio of more than 20 to 1. Because of this ratio, the nitrogen is unavailable to plants, and the soil around the organic waste becomes acidic.
Recommendations and Quotes about Worm Castings
_"Worm Castings outperform any commercial fertilizer I know of. The key factor is microbial activity. Research that I and others have done shows that microbial activity in worm castings is 10 to 20 times higher than in the soil and the organic matter that the worm ingests..."_
_"Earthworm castings are the best imaginable potting soil for greenhouses or house plants, as well as gardening and farming. It will not burn even the most delicate plants and all nutrients are water-soluble, making it an immediate plant food. The effect of earthworm castings used in any of these ways is immediately visible. They make plants grow fast and strong."_
 _ "Castings contain 5 times the available nitrogen, 7 times the available potash and 1 ½ times more calcium than that found in 12" of topsoil. Therefore, castings are supplied with available nutrients. The nutrients are also water-soluble and immediately available to the plant. You will find that most potting soils have a nutrient life for 2 to 5 days, where worm castings will last up to 6 times as long. You will need 5 times as much potting soil to do the same job as worm castings. So in the long run, worm castings are much cheaper and do a much better job. Also, castings hold 2 to 3 times their weight in water. That means you water less and the pot will stay damper for a longer period. Worm castings will not burn your plants; unlike using any fresh raw manure (cow, horse, etc.) which can burn root systems if not applied properly. . . . The manure passes through the worms' digestive system producing rich organic plant food and a slow releasing fertilizer which allows for better growth."
_ *How to use Worm Castings:*
For Germination
 Use 20 to 30% Worm Castings with sand as an excellent germination mixture. It will also ensure continuous and lush growth for about three months, without you having to add any other plant food.
 As a Soil Conditioner
 If you hoe a layer of barren soil, add a layer of Worm Castings and give it some water, you will be surprised at the growth of your first season's plants.
 As a Fertilizer
 Sprinkle Worm Castings around the base of plants or lightly dig it in, and then add water. They can also be sprinkled on a large scale with a spreader. Remember: you cannot use too much Worm Castings &#8211; it cannot damage your plants.
 As a Liquid Fertilizer
 Worm Castings can easily be mixed with water. Use 1 cup Worm Castings for every gallon of water and wait 1 week. This liquid mixture can be used as an excellent fertilizer or leaf foliate spray. It also helps to control insects. Many people prefer this method of application.
We have known for hundreds of years that earthworms are the best way to improve plant growth and to increase plant yield, such as fruit. Earthworm castings are a wonder product of nature. So if you care about your soil, and your plants, then now is the time to get rid of your Miracle Gro and to use this 100% natural product.
 *How castings are grown and harvested...*
 *




* Large wooden boxes are kept in a greenhouse with low light conditions and moist warm air. The boxes are filled with manure, cottonmeal, peatmoss and other natural products and then worms are added.
 

*




*
As the worms eat their way through this material, they digest it and it breaks down and becomes worm castings. The worms are carefully separated out and the castings are bagged up for you. Many times worms leave tiny eggs in the castings which later hatch and become great worms for your garden to continue their work! I bet these bitches dont hatch in my rez,,, if they do they better develop gills quickly!


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## JimBro (Jan 20, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Flavorfull is going to increase nutrient uptake? Via what mechanism?


 via mainlining. It's an advanced technique and quite time consuming.


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## jojodancer10 (Jan 20, 2011)

lol, hay, i got 2 grams of bubba kush on the fly master. stick and move fly stick and move,


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## legallyflying (Jan 20, 2011)

Fulvic acids rock but that whole article never said anything about increased nutrient uptake. Just because nutrients are available doesn't mean they going to be absorbed. 

It's my understanding that earth worm casings are mostly used in soil, primarily for the reasons listed.. Transformation of nutrients into forms that can be absorbed by the plant. Hydro nutes are already in absorbable forms.


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## frogster (Jan 20, 2011)

Damn jimbro, thats funny as crap... Im using a tea comprised of EWC,, the fulvic and humic acids are being introduced from the ewc into the water,, just not sure how much.... I put ewc in a sock add my bennies and molasses and percolate for 48hrs... I save money by not dumping products like great white directly into the rez,,, Im thinking of using a fulvic supplement just to make sure I have enough... I found all the nutes online way cheaper than the hydro store... (bchydro online)


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 20, 2011)

JimBro said:


> Thanks for the info, Atheist. I went with the Hanna Combo pen and it should be here tomorrow. Got the calibration crap too, so I should be good to go.
> 
> Glad you found the thread, Xivex. It's been a good one so far and I can't wait to see the end result. *Speaking of which, I think it's about time for some progress photos?* And I gotta check out your LSD grow. I think that one's gonna be on deck for me.
> 
> I'll look into those nutes, Frog. I need to study overall nute philosophy, though. That sounds gay, but I don't really know what PPM is good or what it says about what shit is needed. But I'm definitely in the right place to learn all that doodoo. Especially now that I got a feel for who's fool of crap and who ain't.


Lol I am not even atheist, I'm anti-theist that picture is just funny because to an extent it is true.


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## frogster (Jan 20, 2011)

calibration crap... I bought the gh calibration crap also,,, I swear its just mouthwash, minty smell,,, Im going to get a gallon of scope or listerene and check its ph,,, way cheaper!!! I will take a few pics when lights come on soon...


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## frogster (Jan 20, 2011)

DAmn, I was over at uncle bens thread,,, noob first question, too damn funny.... 
* clwhsr*
*




* * Stranger Stranger




* * Join Date Jan 2011 Posts 3 * 
* 




** maybe i missed it but can you top after harvest? My answer, sure , that would be called harvesting! 
*​


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## JimBro (Jan 20, 2011)

That's funny - nice answer, frog. And I'm sure there's cheap alternatives to the cal fluid also. I bet listerine is pretty damn acidic. 

And I just used atheist because I didn't know how to shorten your SN. Jim would confuse myself, biz or bizzz, maybe ale or zale, or 67123...fuck it - atheist. That was the thought process there. I can't even see what the punch line reads on your pic.


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## frogster (Jan 20, 2011)

Having issues with thw supercropped side.. again! Im so frustrated with that strain,,, And nutes! You can see the "CLAW" ! near the beer bottle.. I was watering 4x during the lights on cycle... I cut back to three and lowered my ppm and ph... This may be from the previous nutes? Im not sure how long this takes to show up...


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## frogster (Jan 21, 2011)

Oh boy! what is this sucker! Too much light? It was close , but I found a smaller leaf a smaller leaf in the middle of one plant also... Update.. crap. I m getting the claw and twisting on the plants.. not sure if its from the new nutes , or from the other nutes before the change out...Im going to lower the ppm a little and drop the ph .... shit seems to be happening fast! Amnother update... Looks like a Calcium deficiency on the lower leaves of the super cropped gals.... UGGHH.... Damn I hate nutrients....


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## PakChild (Jan 21, 2011)

Lookin good guys


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 21, 2011)

frogster said:


> calibration crap... I bought the gh calibration crap also,,, I swear its just mouthwash, minty smell,,, Im going to get a gallon of scope or listerene and check its ph,,, way cheaper!!! I will take a few pics when lights come on soon...


 LOl I guess that will work if listerine has a set calibration U will always know what to set it at. But my calibration liquid is 7.01 so when I calibrate it I set it to 7.01 but if u get it set it too 7.01 then test listerine and know that listerine is a constant number a little math will get u where u need too be.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 21, 2011)

JimBro said:


> That's funny - nice answer, frog. And I'm sure there's cheap alternatives to the cal fluid also. I bet listerine is pretty damn acidic.
> 
> And I just used atheist because I didn't know how to shorten your SN. Jim would confuse myself, biz or bizzz, maybe ale or zale, or 67123...fuck it - atheist. That was the thought process there. I can't even see what the punch line reads on your pic.


 we can stick with atheist.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 21, 2011)

JimBro said:


> That's funny - nice answer, frog. And I'm sure there's cheap alternatives to the cal fluid also. I bet listerine is pretty damn acidic.
> 
> And I just used atheist because I didn't know how to shorten your SN. Jim would confuse myself, biz or bizzz, maybe ale or zale, or 67123...fuck it - atheist. That was the thought process there. I can't even see what the punch line reads on your pic.


 View attachment 1394597View attachment 1394600


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## JimBro (Jan 21, 2011)

^^^Yeah, I found that pic online after I posted. Funny. But, together with the Christianity one, friggin' priceless. That picture of Bush in the middle is awesome.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 21, 2011)

frogster said:


> Oh boy! what is this sucker! Too much light? It was close , but I found a smaller leaf a smaller leaf in the middle of one plant also... Update.. crap. I m getting the claw and twisting on the plants.. not sure if its from the new nutes , or from the other nutes before the change out...Im going to lower the ppm a little and drop the ph .... shit seems to be happening fast! Amnother update... Looks like a Calcium deficiency on the lower leaves of the super cropped gals.... UGGHH.... Damn I hate nutrients....


 This is one of the many reasons I stopped growing in soil. So many problems seem too pop up in soil grows and I could never ever figure out or correct what the issue was.

Could be K deficiency or maybe over fert I am not too sure.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 21, 2011)

JimBro said:


> ^^^Yeah, I found that pic online after I posted. Funny. But, together with the Christianity one, friggin' priceless. That picture of Bush in the middle is awesome.


 I like the look on Jessica Simpson's face, its like wow here brain has left the building permanently.


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## JimBro (Jan 21, 2011)

frogster said:


> Oh boy! what is this sucker! Too much light? It was close , but I found a smaller leaf a smaller leaf in the middle of one plant also... Update.. crap. I m getting the claw and twisting on the plants.. not sure if its from the new nutes , or from the other nutes before the change out...Im going to lower the ppm a little and drop the ph .... shit seems to be happening fast! Amnother update... Looks like a Calcium deficiency on the lower leaves of the super cropped gals.... UGGHH.... Damn I hate nutrients....


 Man, hope you figure out the solution. How long does it take to correct problems like this? Actually, I guess what I'm really asking is: will the leaves return to normal after the solution is found, or does it just save anymore from developing these issues?


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## legallyflying (Jan 21, 2011)

Cut them all down. Concede loss. Bow before my scrog


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## frogster (Jan 21, 2011)

Its just one strain of plants (9plants, sour diesel), They have given me crap the entire grow, Its not the scrogged plants. They will be ok, I cut the watering schedule back (from 4 to 3) and lowered the ppm and ph a bit. I damn sure dont want to do a rez change this soon, so I will stick it out a few days and watch it close. The scrogged plants are kicking ass along with the big bud..


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## xivex (Jan 21, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Cut them all down. Concede loss. Bow before my scrog


LMAO. LF you seem rather skilled in smack talk. I take it you come from years of experience on the matter..


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## frogster (Jan 21, 2011)

X, Its a sure sign that hes worried, notice he hasnt posted a pic of his future mexibrick....besides if i lose those plants I will put that light over the scrog... As far as the claw goes, im guessing I was over watering ... this happened early in vegg with these biotches... for sure I thought the blueberry was going to give me trouble more than the sour diesel... the blueberry are taller also ( before scrogging) go figure,,, either that or I have the strains backwards..... im fairly sure though after looking at pictures of both online...


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## legallyflying (Jan 21, 2011)

I say KNEEL before the awesomeness of my SCROG!


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## nugbuckets (Jan 21, 2011)

Frogster, you did it wrong bro, you are supposed to pour the listerene in the milk jug, then have your boy take a dump in it, shake, strain through tea bag, have it blessed by an atheist, then give to the plants with the twirled leaves, fixes it every time....takes care of your Cal problem too......silly you.

Good show fellas...subbed' plus rep.

P.S. one more week of downward facing dog, and my tongue is gonna touch! I swear!


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## frogster (Jan 22, 2011)

The sour diesels have stopped deforming&clawing,, the new growth looks like it coming out correct, I will know more in the a.m .... Legal, bro, some pics are in order,,, hard to be impressed&worshiped without evidence!! Awe us with the awesomeness of your Ganja pics....


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## legallyflying (Jan 22, 2011)

Pictures of veg are gay


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## frogster (Jan 22, 2011)

Ahh, you consider any pics without buds not worthy,,, Dont get how you consider them gay (no female anatomy showing?)... My ppm is climbing during watering last night It went from 820 to 840,,,, Went through about 4 gallons of h20... I lowered the ppm this a.m before the final feeding and lights out.... Right now I feed right before lights on, 6 hrs later and 45 min before lights out.... 15min cycle except the last one is 30min... I was at 5cycles (every 3hrs) before...now the new growth is coming in without the claw so im feeling better... I was pretty damn frustrated the other night.... I mixed a single gallon at the feed chart recommend 5ml per gall Part a&b. 1ml sae mag and ginourmous .. And the gallon came out to 660ppm! (50ppm from tap) When I added the same ratio to my rez ( 50 gal) the other day it only raised my rez 360ppm.... ????????? No idea ... Looking forward to the next rez change to see what the hell it comes out at... UPDATE, just picked up the Flavorful, Humic&fulvic acid,,, adding it later to the rez, suppose to help with avoiding nutrient burn also....


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## legallyflying (Jan 22, 2011)

Maybe you need to shake the jugs before measuring? Seems odd. I definately water more often. Your ppm should climb everynight, but then when you top off (which is the only time you should check your ppm; you find that it actually went down. My 12 girls are drinking about 10 gallons a night. But I'm running at 90 degrees and 45% so more evapotranspiration is expected.


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## frogster (Jan 22, 2011)

90 degrees , holy carp... I couldn't get my room past 82 with the vent fan running.... Ahh, so your saying dont worry about my ppm going up a little every night,,, I thought I was suppose to get it where it keeps even with the evaporation,,,and if it went down, I was suppose to add more nutes.... I mixed the bottles good, I thought... Next rez change will tell me a lot... Im digging all the hairs coming out... Buds on the way,,, woohoo, exciting! I hope my blueberry is really purple in color, I suppose I can let the temps drop just before harvest to get them that way...


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## legallyflying (Jan 22, 2011)

Frog, I thought you knew this little factoid already and maybe you do but for those that are we or whatever, here is how you determine EXACTLY how much nutrients are being given to your plant and how you should be mixing in your nutrients. I'm not going to go into the why you should cause I just got out of a really hot bath and I want to conserve strength so I can rub one out before I take the kids to the movies. 

Fill your Rez at LEAST 3/4 full before adding anything! 
Add your Macro nutes and let mix around (u DO have a pump running 24:7 in your Rez right...)
Add micro and anything else you think is goIng to fix the fact that you really don't know what the fuck your doing 
Top off with tap to the desired level
Mark THAT WATER HEIGht with marker
Let mix for 20. CALIBRATE your ph pen, test ph. 
Add your up or down..that has been DILUTED at least 10:1 from the bottle strength. If you see a little cloud form when you pour your shit in there it's waaaay to strong. Don't do it. 
Let mix and test again. Yadah yadah. 

Ok let's say your ppm is 1030 and your ph is 5.6 ( like mine was 4 days ago) 
You come back the next day, the water is lower and now the ppm is 1080 and ph 5.8. Still ok to me. 
Next day, even less water gone, ppm at 1150 ph 5.9.. Ok, now it's time to take a break from watching German fisting porn and give your plants some love. 
Add clean tap only to the fill line you marked. NOW test the PPM. Wow it's 960. Now you know that your plants absorbed 120 ppm of nutes in 4 days. 960 is pretty close to the original 1030 so I'll probably leave it for another day. 
Now I'll come back the next day, there is like 10 gallons of solution gone so to get me back up to the original 1030 or close, I'll mix like 5 gallons of fresh nutes in the exact proportions I did originally and add it in the Rez. Test the ppm, if it's higher than you want but not by much your golden because youll top off again with tap to the fill mark. 

The main point is this folks: the only ppm comparisons should be done when the rez is at the same height! Plants transpire water and leave the minerals, its normal for ppm to climb because of this. 

In veg I'm pretty lazy and I use root excelerator which is expensive so I do this for several weeks without changing the Rez. In flower, I maybe go two weeks tops. Because I'm such a fuckin dope Mack daddy I typically top of with fresh water everyday because I plumbed my grow set up so my filtered water comes out to a hose bib about a foot from my reservoirs. I fill test and RECORD ppm daily simply because I don't have to lift anything and risk injuring my jerk off hand. This allows me to track exactly how much nutrients are being absorbed every day. 

Make sure you change your flowering Rez every week or at MAX. Every two weeks. You can never know WHICH mutes are being absorbed and if you keep adding back nutrients, the PROPORTIONS between the minerals can get fucked up am lead to lock out problems. This is why I hardly ever just add macro or just micro to my Rez. I always add balanced nutes. 

Make sense? Anyone that learned anything now owes me rep cause my wife is calling for me now and I never had time to "spend a little time with myself" cause I was typing in my I phone


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## frogster (Jan 22, 2011)

Yep, I learned a few things,,,, Hell, I will give you more rep...even though you have gotten most of it ! I was just adding back water to whatever level I felt (how many jugs I wanted to carry), and just mixing in the nutes till I got to the desired level ... I was also adding my ph down directly to the rez until I hit the number I wanted.... oops... Thx,,, I will switch up my routine..takes more effort. Less time for whacking... But perhaps more often if the plants kick ass! dammit, I need to spread some rep around to give you more... who wants rep,,, rep here! ....


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jan 22, 2011)

You guys are too fkn funny....best shit talk thread ever....and it's all in fun....And correct me if I'm wrong, but are you trying to win a weight competition with DJ Short True Blueberry....good luck on that. Legal has this in the bag....sorry young frog.


Edit......Yaaaaahhhhh!!!!! some +rep.......thanks froggy


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## JimBro (Jan 22, 2011)

I, too, can use this info, Legal. Just the other day I splashed some pH UP in my bucket and noticed the cloud. I thought it was pretty...guess it wasn't.
German fisting porn is played 24/7 in my grow area, so that one doesn't apply to me.
RIU says I've given ya too much rep lately and have to 'spread it around'. As soon as I'm able I'll hit you up, but not because of the great info...rather because you typed that long ass post in an iPhone with so few typos. Amazing, Grace. Wonder when iPhone will have a masturbation app like the Droid has already. In a world of doesn't...


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## xivex (Jan 22, 2011)

Dude i mistype like a sunnofabitch on my ipad. Iphones even worse. Tiny keyboard.


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## legallyflying (Jan 22, 2011)

JimBro said:


> German fisting porn is played 24/7 in my grow area, so that one doesn't apply to.


Awesome idea. Porn, weed, fuck man, I just might put my keg in the grow room


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## frogster (Jan 23, 2011)

Endles C. He doesn't want me to include my Big bud,,, lol.. But we all know im going to throw it in at the end. Im wanting to beat him on grams per watt, better overall potency&flavor, and sheer plant beauty (bag appeal) In other words , I want my finished ladies to dominate!... Im sure we will need an independent card holding smoking enthusiast to give judgment. Probably the winner of a "Guess The Yield " thread... Mexi-brick (Legal) doesn't smoke and I have maybe 5 times in the last 20 years,, hardly fit for a judge but I plan on sampling all the strains that I have over a nice camping trip with a big bonfire and lots of goodies to much on... I better take a friend along, Im sure this isnt going to be the same stuff I use to smoke... i would be Like The guy in Jimbros picture...


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jan 23, 2011)

Wait wait wait wait,just one f'n minute......did you just say Legally doesn't even smoke and you have like 5 times.....what the fk???


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## frogster (Jan 23, 2011)

Yep... I grow as a caretaker, I just eat edibles once in awhile for pain. About the only time I really enjoy smoke is outdoors... camping, beach bonfires or rafting down a slow river on a warm day. I moved to Colorado recently and im looking forward to more of these activities. I think Mexi-brick use to smoke, not sure why he quiet. Thats was 5 times in the last 20years,ok maybe 10. Have afew times since I moved here, but I only took a couple hits for anxiety a few days, works well for really stressful times, I dont enjoy getting totally fucked up, unless Im with good friends and doing the activities I mentioned, paranoid and the feeling of stupidity creeps in if Im not really active with friends during a good smoke out. I didnt mention my high school&college days, At one point we rolled a qp joint out many pages from the phonebook and lite it up in a large closet, needless to say the closet wasn't necessary. I grew large gardens down in Texas (regular) crops. I always enjoyed Marijuana, even if I wasn't smoking it, I liked to separate and roll the joints at all the parties,, there's just something about the plant that I like, The smell? The colors? Shit if I know, Its a cool ass plant.... Im excited that im in flowering, cant wait to see big sticky fresh buds, theywill look Delicious... Makes me want to eat em' ,, Legal doesnt want all the popcorn bud, hell, I want to chocolate coat them and chow down while watching something like Willy Wonka.. or the new Tron! Ahh, the good ole' days...


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## xivex (Jan 23, 2011)

I think legal only likes to smoke when his wife is gone. I heard he uses an esoteric technique called choking thats very similar to scarfing, except instead of using a scarf at the moment of climax he takes a huge hit off a bong and holds it in while choking and at the same time finishes himself off with the other hand. All while watching two girls one cup... Of course!!

Haha. Couldnt resist joining in.....

X


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## frogster (Jan 23, 2011)

I dont love my plants the same way legal does..... Last time I checked protein isn't a nutrient for plants! As you can plainly see in the picture Legal (here being Illegal!) is taking advantage of a under aged female, nowhere near old enough for reproduction. In some foreign strains such as Hindu Kush, reproducing with an under aged specimen would be legal as long as he has a goat handy for trade. Perhaps he should learn the difference between Mitosis and Meiosis..


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jan 23, 2011)

Fkn good shit guys....keep it up!!!


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## legallyflying (Jan 23, 2011)

It's true, nOt much of a smoker anymore. Used to live off that shit in college and smoked allot of
Mountain hash in the Philippines when I was in the peace corps. Waking up naked on the US ambassadors couch after a drug filled Manilla sex binge and a couple weeks later taking a huge bong hit and diving to 60 meters off the coast of Thailand and pretty much having a panic attack however, started to take a little fun out of it. In the end, it doesn't jive too well with 
my brain chemistry. Things just change when you get older. I have lots of responsibilities and a demanding job so I can't risk leaving the oven on and burning the house down to satisfy some late night stoner pizza roll craving  

I still smoke now and then but I have to say on the last harvest I told
Myself "quit being a pussy", grab the bong from my wife and took a huge toke. Holly shit...not a great idea. In terms of me cranking out mexi bud; my patient has been smoking for 30 years and grew for a decade. She smoked one bowl of
my mango, turned to me and said "wow, nice work"


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 23, 2011)

xivex said:


> I think legal only likes to smoke when his wife is gone. I heard he uses an esoteric technique called choking thats very similar to scarfing, except instead of using a scarf at the moment of climax he takes a huge hit off a bong and holds it in while choking and at the same time finishes himself off with the other hand. All while watching two girls one cup... Of course!!
> 
> Haha. Couldnt resist joining in.....
> 
> X


Funny thats my same technique except right after the bong hit I put a Popsicle stick with yogurt up my butt for good measure.


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## frogster (Jan 23, 2011)

30 years of mexi-brick, Thats the problem with illegal immigration,, Too damn many liberals taking up for others, Im sure she said Ah! Bueno Trabajo! lol... Now you know you left us hanging, you need to finish the story of what happened after the bong hit,,, I think I see the pattern here? My plants get sick, Im super humble.. The plants recover and the smack talk begins... lol I was at a dispensary today on business, and the half owner comes out, we start chatting , He claims to be a master grower with a chemistry degree, I mention i have a scrog, he ask me "whats a scrog" No shit! unbelievable... He was serious... You dont even want to know all the other things he said...


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## newstrainnewrules (Jan 23, 2011)

Well the first part of business is confidense. You appear to act like you know what your talking about and the tru people who are new dont know anybetter and theres the market. Theres stupid people everywhere and someone to make a dollar off them just around the corner.


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## legallyflying (Jan 23, 2011)

my last "mexican" bud...


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## frogster (Jan 23, 2011)

Yep, looks like standard ole' mexican schwag.... is that what you consider grade A? photo chopped? Ok, seriously, it looks delicious, chocolate covered with a walnuts ... Now im going to have to go to the store and get some kind of blue or purple ice cream... Like I said, I dont smoke often, but I would love to take one good hit of that....


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 23, 2011)

Man you guys with your I dont smoke that often, i cant get enough weed I have to cut back all the time and stop myself from smoking.

I dont even get that high my friends think I am an asshole because they brag about the shit they buy and I'm never impressed. They just dont understand the dankness of growing your own, rather then getting some good bud that has traveled several thousand miles and gone through hundreds of different hands.

Im smoking some coletrain right now a sample from my scrog ill probably chop here in a week or so, I still dont have very many amber trics she is alot slower than the very fast flowering advertisement good thing I listen to the plant and not the advertised time.


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## frogster (Jan 24, 2011)

OK, OK,,, I smoked a little last night... I have a classy,fun as all hell, wealthy woman who dresses fine as shit, we have been seeing each other for awhile, she finally ditched her boyfriend at the ski slopes this weekend and we went animalistic after we smoked together. Sexual tension has been building out of control the last few times we were together... rolled in the house at daylight, my sons was like , damn , you go Dad!,,lol he's cool (15) and he always likes to see me happy. Smoke was a bit harsh (free from local dispensary crap, ie, almost mexi-brick,lol) hash plant, kinda purple. Nice high that went great with about 4 beers and a handful of fresh new silicone boobs...Awesome to lay the pipe, I have been working on several projects and haven't been out in awhile... . Im really wanting to try some super lemon haze... Looking for that "I cant stop laughing" my ass off strain.. I think thats one of them? The girls are looking happy, going to start a rez change tonight... Hairs are sticking out, really cool looking..... so damn exciting to see these going into bud.... the fruit of my labor... I can see Im going to feel bad about hacking them down someday, but they were grown for as purpose, and I fully intend to partake in the fruit.... later guys.... Frog


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## legallyflying (Jan 24, 2011)

My plants are ready for harvest already. Looks like about 8 lbs. 

Oooh, I mean, they started sprouting pistols. Filling out nicely, about a foot above the screen average I would say. 

Added some Silica to the Rez this go through because a few of the plants were a little leggy, man the stalks are like grape vines on the bigger plants. Surprising how much they firmed up. I'm not anticipating much difference in yield from the silica but it doesn't seem to make the stems harder to break. 

Frog man, how far above the screen are your plants? I'll TRY and post a pic later tonight.


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## JimBro (Jan 24, 2011)

legal, you're running endless sky, right? I saw on Greenthumb's site that the flower on those puppies is only 45 days...does that sound about right? I'm thinking of ordering those or The Dope. His G13 ($100 a seed) claims a possible yield of greater than 2000 grams. That's crazy. Bet a gram a watt wouldn't be that hard to get if that's true, frogger.

so, frogger, instead of grow pics, how bout a few babe pics? Congrats on the pipe cleaning.


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## frogster (Jan 24, 2011)

Well, since you didnt want to compete against the big bud I Grafted all the blueberry and the big buds together (not against the rules!) I then went out and collected all the broken big screen tv's on craigslist , took out the screens (they are like a super magnifying glass) I then took off my roof of my shed and installed the screens overhead, it was a sunshiny day and I measured 2million lumen per sqft, My plants grew pushing the new "roof" up, they grew 14ft tall in just a half afternoon, ... Im estimating each plant is about 8.01 lb each....


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## JimBro (Jan 24, 2011)

Holy crap! That's got to be some kind of record. How'd you handle what must have been one helluva heat buildup?


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## frogster (Jan 24, 2011)

I was going to borrow my neighbors swamp boat with the big block fan but, the spider mites down below were not exposed to the direct light, as the population exploded the mites traveled up into the light, their little fucking bodies exploded and ran down the plants.. Im sure the juice from the exploding dead running carcasses kept the plant cool and protected from the violent rays, I surmise the juice also contributed to the exponential growth.. I love Sprider Mites! Who would have thunk'.... Tried to P.M you a nice body shot , in full bloom... doesnt allow attachments in P.m's


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## JimBro (Jan 24, 2011)

That makes complete sense. I was starting to doubt your claims, but the spider mite carcass juice explains a lot. You should probably start a new thread on that. I would do it for you, but I started a thread about all my clones turning out male. That one hurt my credibility. Sucks about the PM. But, hey, at least you tried...


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## frogster (Jan 24, 2011)

Endless sky,, Holy carp! just read up on that,,, hell yes im including my big bud in the numbers,,, cheater! Some of the girls are about 6"-8".. I will measure a little later, I raised the lights a little last night, I was 8"-12" over some of the tops... no light burn though... I still have alot of stuff just coming through the screen, Im getting it spaced out a bit, making sure the little suckers are getting light to their leaves& letting it stretch... I would say im getting a good 1-2" stretch every day now (lights were pretty damn low...) since I have the light rail I was reading up on switching my light to something like a 14hr on cycle ... way after they start flowering to prevent hermies...but i think they would still need the full 12hrs dark afterwards, this would change my lights on/off schedule all the time and I cant do that...


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## legallyflying (Jan 24, 2011)

I have one endless sky in there right now. She wasnt big enough to clone by a long shot (and she was a runt of the liter) so I just threw her into flower, no topping or trimming, just to see what she does. She is out along the edge marginalized. You'll laugh when you see her picture


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jan 25, 2011)

my smallest, slowest, and retarded plants always turn into some of the best smoke from the harvest.


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## frogster (Jan 25, 2011)

Small, slow and retarded... Hey! thats the way I like my women... I dont want her fruit to smell like pine, skunk or diesel though... Her boobs err.. ugh..(Bud) sizes are not important as long as they dont have the gala kite bloodshot eye pancake sized nipples hanging off the end look... You will see in my pic a plant in soil, in the ice cream bucket,,,the runt.. watch this little shit put out the most.. it was only about 6" when the others went to flower at 16"


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## legallyflying (Jan 25, 2011)

Getting back to the point of the thread, growing weed...

Some of my plants are objecting to the snowstorm foliar treatment. Some twisted, a couple folding, some just plain pissed off. They are absorbing lots of nutes though. Something on the order of 70+ ppm a day. In other news I noticed a downside to the bucket system. Water sits in the hoses and gets heated. This has raised my average Rez temp from 67 to 72 which is to hot for my liking. To combat this, I have put that foam pipe insulation over the hoses. Will be able to tell the effect later this evening


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## legallyflying (Jan 25, 2011)

Oh yeah, this thread needs some pictures!! I'll do my part this evening


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jan 25, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Getting back to the point of the thread, growing weed...





legallyflying said:


> Oh yeah, this thread needs some pictures!! I'll do my part this evening


Hahaha....I was gonna ask...are we just gonna talk stupid shit or grow some pot....LOL.....lets see some pics


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## legallyflying (Jan 25, 2011)

Here you go...

Some random pictures... 

My Veg "bath" all the buckets sit in here during veg. It's basically a big ebb/flood table (that gets flooded to 8" deep). Me getting bored at night drilling holes in buckets..

Hydroton soaking in hygrozym getting cleaned up for the next cycle.



THE HOLY SCROG OF EPIC PROPORTIONS:



Unhappy foliar fed leaves.. Only a handfull look like this but still...



The endless sky plant your worried about.. LMAO, WHAT A MONSTER!!



New scrubber set-up that exhausts down and across the floor for a little under the scrog ventilation..


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jan 25, 2011)

Bout time....LOL.....JK


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 25, 2011)

Here is some more pics to keep this thread going.

Hardcore Bud Porn....

View attachment 1403419View attachment 1403420View attachment 1403422


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## JimBro (Jan 25, 2011)

Sweet Jesus, Atheist. Them some big ass buds! What strain you got there? Nevermind, I think you mentioned in thread...will find.

I'm envious as hell of all that room you got, Legal. And I dig the scrubber. That's one of those things I never would of thought of myself. I only think of scrubbing air as it's being exhausted. But with CO2, from what I understand, you need a sealed grow space. Kinda hard to scrub exhaust from a room that's rarely exhausted. Is there an auxiliary scrubber, too? 

And the point of this thread is not to grow weed so much as it is to teach me everything you guys know about said growing of weed. That's why you can't get annoyed with my stupid questions.


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## frogster (Jan 26, 2011)

Here you go... everything looking happy... last pic you can see both sides,, and the damn ice cream plant on top of the control box... Found a single f'ing mite on a supercropped plant, first plant near door... I unleashed an arsenal... I hosed the plant down with some unknown substance from a fellow grower (damn sure used my respirator , I opened up 2 hot shot strips.. and I bought a 12% pyrethrin fumigator I will let loose in the a.m after lights out.... My next grow room will be completely sealed, and there will be an area that you put on those white one piece outfits and rubber shoes that you dip in alcohol before entering room,,oh yea, and shower caps.. lol I hate bugs, any bugs... They belong outside!! Great set of buds Jimferizzlejizzle... Jimbro, everyone here will help you with your grow, dont sweat it... Legal, your plants will recover , hell, the stress will probably make them grow incredible somehow,, seems like stress does that to plants? Odd...


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## legallyflying (Jan 26, 2011)

JimBro said:


> Sweet Jesus, Atheist. Them some big ass buds! What strain you got there? Nevermind, I think you mentioned in thread...will find.
> 
> I'm envious as hell of all that room you got, Legal. And I dig the scrubber. That's one of those things I never would of thought of myself. I only think of scrubbing air as it's being exhausted. But with CO2, from what I understand, you need a sealed grow space. Kinda hard to scrub exhaust from a room that's rarely exhausted. Is there an auxiliary scrubber, too?
> 
> And the point of this thread is not to grow weed so much as it is to teach me everything you guys know about said growing of weed. That's why you can't get annoyed with my stupid questions.


I dig the scrubber set up for smell control. I have never run the scrub to exhaust so I can't really say, but the internal scrubber set up is nice as it is continually treating the air. I think all the air passes through the filter every 2-3 minutes or something like that. I don't have another scrubber as my light vent enters and exists outside the room. So there is no need to scrub as it is "external" to the room. 

If you have this set-up its important that you ensure your hoods are tightly sealed so air doesn't get pulled in the cracks...but since my air is clean in the room it doesn't make a difference. 

Looking good Frogster, still kind of worried that they are not above the screen of doom enough but I guess time will tell. I'm hoping that all my shoots straighten out in the next week so I get nice straight tight buds. 

Time to bring on the carbos.


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## frogster (Jan 26, 2011)

The stretching on the supercropped girls seems to have slowed and everything is starting to fill in, lots of hairs filling in on the stems,some 8-12" below the tops, awesome if the buds get that big. , I was sure these were suppose to stretch 2x the size? The scrogged girls are still stretching up top. a lot! Im going to have to raise the lights again. The lower growth and the growth growing out from the sides seems to have slowed,,,


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## nugbuckets (Jan 26, 2011)

great work fellas...love this thread. it's funny, i hav'nt smoked in almost a year either, and when i am puffin', i am really a lightweight. Just isn't like it was when i was a kid. but i am also a caregiver now, and let my clients dictate the direction of my grows, and i have had very few complaints in the last few years. To be honest, some of my strains are so potent, i would hate to take a big ripper off a bong......fucking ,good night Irene! if i smoke, it is for pain relief, as i have chronic Lyme. And my genetic work has much more to do with medical properties of the strain than recreational properties.......more power to you guys....and you don't have to feel like pussies! Keep up the good work....and keep the smack rolling....laughter is the best medicine!
Peace, Nugs


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## nugbuckets (Jan 26, 2011)

p.s......good luck to you frog......legals' scene is going to explode!


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## BoomerBloomer57 (Jan 26, 2011)

i'm scribed.

Maybe next time I'll join the fun.


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## newstrainnewrules (Jan 26, 2011)

holly shit boomer nice room! +rep just for that


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## frogster (Jan 26, 2011)

Thx newstrain, I may not pull the weight he does (total) but I may get lucky and out gram him per watt... Im shooting for the magic 1per watt... Thats my goal and im sticking with it!! BoomerB, I have read your journal, incredible room...hope to see new monster plants in it soon, plz journal it..,, welcome both of ya'll (ya'll, yes I say that, Im originally from Texas) And heres a little +rep for joining in and rooting for my girls over Legals..lol


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## legallyflying (Jan 26, 2011)

Legit for sure boomer. Looking for some pics with some sizable plants in there!


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## newstrainnewrules (Jan 26, 2011)

thanks for the rep frogster, ive been watching the this grow since like page 4 lol ive learned alot from both of you guys and had fun reading this as it goes on

quick question tho have you used the chicken wire b4 in the past? I tried it last year outdoors and the plant ended up cuttin itself almost, ended up rotting the stalk, hope you have better luck with it then i did


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## BoomerBloomer57 (Jan 26, 2011)

Got to use the Livestock fencing.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 26, 2011)

Damn boomer your room has pounds and pounds of potential good lord thats a nice room, its so white its like a fuckin hospital room.


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## xivex (Jan 26, 2011)

Great job on the sterile lab room boomer. Looks hospital clean man. Nice work.


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## BoomerBloomer57 (Jan 26, 2011)

Many claim to have "Medical Grow Rooms".



My labs are inspired by the good folks at JPL.

You know, the space thingy guys.


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## meezy4tw (Jan 26, 2011)

lmao I love this whole thread so much.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 26, 2011)

BoomerBloomer57 said:


> Many claim to have "Medical Grow Rooms".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope you bought like a bio-hazard suite to wear when you walk into the grow room. Maybe make a sterilization chamber before you enter, I really do hate seeing all the dust flying around when I open my tent those lights make everything show.


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## JimBro (Jan 26, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I hope you bought like a bio-hazard suite to wear when you walk into the grow room. Maybe make a sterilization chamber before you enter, I really do hate seeing all the dust flying around when I open my tent those lights make everything show.


 No kidding. That room looks like a place where you would perform an alien autopsy. Will this be your first grow in that space or are you OCD? Bet there's no masturbating going on in there. My grow could fit very nicely over there in the corner, next to the scrubber. You wouldn't even notice I was there. Very nice.


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jan 26, 2011)

he hoes wear a sterile suit....boomer is the shit man


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## frogster (Jan 26, 2011)

Newstrain, this is my first grow, ever ( not even 1 plant in soil) Your outdoor stalks will far exceed the girth that i will see in my indoor scrog, I will be very happy if I am incorrect!!  I would Love to see these Girls restricted by 1"... woohoo... not going to happen,, I wish... I do have lots of little buds sites rather close and cramped... I will post a pic of a solution for that in a bit...


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## legallyflying (Jan 26, 2011)

I have seen several pictures of that room. Top notch for sure...just waiting for some pictures of some top notch buds.


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## frogster (Jan 26, 2011)

So, I'm originally from Texas and we do things big... I believe I will have enough airflow to keep mold away and increase the stalk strength if this doesnt rip them out of the hydroton and suck them into the intake like a 737... ... lol...


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jan 26, 2011)

Hah...no shit...are you really gonna use that.....I hope you like your buds cause they're gonna get sucked right off the stalk..LOL....maybe fire it up at harvest to make it a little easier.


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## BoomerBloomer57 (Jan 26, 2011)

Clean Suits, booties and if ya have hair, a friggin hair net.

Same in the Veg Lab.

OCD has it's good points.
I'm still refining them.
For my OCD, that is.

Clean filtered air. No bugs. No dust. Nothing in to contaminate the grow.

If I had not run over my Nikon I'd be pumping out the pics.
i'm stuck with a Sony Cybershot that has me confused on the lighting.

I'm working on it.


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## frogster (Jan 26, 2011)

Too funny Boomer, Your growing space weed... This go around were pretty much opposites, The big fan is rusty, full of spider webs and who knows what the hell is caked on it.. I will spray it down with something (bleach) and semi rig that sucker,, I took the fan out of the box, so it will be more "Compact" lol....But what you have is a bit what i want on my next grow, although maybe not to the extreme such as yours.... You need to install the red flashing lights when the door opens and grreen ones when they are closed... just to be sure no one breaks the airlock and allows a mutant virus in there.... Looks like something out of a movie (zombie quarantine area)....... Yea Endless, come harvest I will just push the stalks in the fan, just like a small wood chipper...


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jan 26, 2011)

Hah....good shit man....grows are looking good peeps!!!!


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## BoomerBloomer57 (Jan 26, 2011)

Frogster,

To even get to the airlock you need to pass three checkpoints and a sanitizer.
Monitored 24/7. Multi angle coverage. Many a surprise for any uninvited perps.
And a big ol' dawg that gets fed every other day.

All that shit fails me I got a RedHeaded Angel with a shottie over my shoulder.
And we all know it's best not to mess with a RedHead.

No one, not even J.C. or his Disciples gets in there without being cleared and cleaned.


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jan 26, 2011)

Fiery !


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## JimBro (Jan 26, 2011)

frogster said:


> So, I'm originally from Texas and we do things big... I believe I will have enough airflow to keep mold away and increase the stalk strength if this doesnt rip them out of the hydroton and suck them into the intake like a 737... ... lol...


Man, screw the plants...I'd be more worried something like this would happen
[video=youtube;SwT-RXuu4wA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SwT-RXuu4wA#t=15s[/video]

Speakin' of screwin' the plants, what strain is that in your avatar ENDLSCYCLE? That looks like the shit I wanna grow.


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## JimBro (Jan 26, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Getting back to the point of the thread, growing weed...


So, Legal, how did insulation work out? Know what else you could do? Go back to DWC. I remember some of your gripes with DWC, but I have come across a couple of threads on here (i think) and other forums where the systems accounted for some of your issues. One of the main ones was having them all connected with a main reservoir. Basically, you don't have to open individual buckets to constantly test and fill. And at least one also had a water pump incorporated, so in the case of catastrophic air fail, the plants would have a backup for a bit. Also, no water sittin' in hoses just heatin' up. I'm sure you already know all this, I'm just sayin'. It's not too late man. Join us.


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jan 26, 2011)

Ahhhhh....I wish I could take credit for that room but I can't....IDK.....got the pick off the net.


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## cruzer101 (Jan 27, 2011)

Great grow off guys!
Thanks for stoppin by my journal frogster, Thought I would see what you are doing.
I've done a little scrog myself. Gram per watt? Good luck bud. Best I got out of 6 or 7 grows was .49 GPW It can be done though.
Hey, have you givin any thought to removing the follage under the screen and training those upper branches?


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## RawBudzski (Jan 27, 2011)

Boomer make love to me now.


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## frogster (Jan 27, 2011)

Hey Cruzer thx for swinging by... From what I understand You either cut the lower foliage early or after stretch. I was planning on a light trim after stretch.. If you have a different viewpoint please explain or point me towards a link...Thx..


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## legallyflying (Jan 27, 2011)

Boomer, just out of slight room envy I'm going to give you shit till I see some actual plants. The first installment " that room is for show, not grow" 

Jimbro, fuck DWC. Nuff said. 

Ohh my little froggie, you haven't trimmed yet? Legally is already done trimming and clearing out bud starts and stagily bud shoots that will never amount to anything. He did it in stages prior to the flip and in the first week. Guess you will just have to trim and stress the plant while it is setting flowers. 

Wait, what is that light in the distance? I can barely read it...i think it says 1 gram/watt. Hard to tell as it is slowly fading into the distance getting smaller an smaller 


. . .


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## RawBudzski (Jan 27, 2011)

DWC is King and TAKES THE MAN CHEESE !!!!



legallyflying said:


> Boomer, just out of slight room envy I'm going to give you shit till I see some actual plants. The first installment " that room is for show, not grow"
> 
> Jimbro, fuck DWC. Nuff said.
> 
> ...


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## frogster (Jan 27, 2011)

Well?????, Should I stress them now while finishing stretch? effecting the stretch? I planned on just right after stretch.... I had my light a little close (8')last night after they grew from the night before , they love to stretch in the dark, so I raised it a little (10") guess it wasnt enough...see pic. or shit? now im wondering if its a calcium deficiency??? The humbolts doesnt have much calcium and I have been over 5.7 (up to 6.0) for several days...


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## legallyflying (Jan 27, 2011)

It looks like herpes. Have you been doing inappropriate things with the lights off? How well do you know your recent conquest? 

Seriously though, it could be calcium but I have to look at a dichotomous key to figure out problems. 10" seems close for a 1k but if they were heat stressed the leaves would start to fold or twist. 

I would trim a little now (have fun with that chicken wire) and then trim a little more in a few days. If you see a thin shoot with a bud start in it ( especially if it's starting from the base) just get rid of it. You ever see an apple tree that never went through a spring storm or been pruned? There are TONS of apples..but they never get big enough to ever eat or ripen. Same situation here. 

You may want to raise the lights and decrease night time temps to induce a little more stretch and get them above the screen a little more.

Set your ph at 5.5 when you mix fresh nutes and don't fuck with it till it hits 6.2-6.5. THEN knock it back down. Let it float around.


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## cruzer101 (Jan 27, 2011)

Well, if you would like to know what I would do, First I would tie back the tall shoots to make an even canopy and get some wire cutters and snip the screen in a couple places so I could get my hand under there. Then I would reposition what lower stuff I could to reach light in the screen. Then cut off the stuff that's not going to pass the screen. what ever grows over 6 inches above the screen gets tied back during stretch. Keep tying until you see buds forming or like the third week of 12/12. Then I would pretty much let the go. I would keep my ppms around 600 during this time and once they kick in, like week 5 of 12/12 I would give it a boost like 900 ppm then see what happens, if it burns go back to 600 if not run it at 900 or so.

If you would like to see my scrog grows they are in the cabinet journals. They are only 400w grows HPS and CMH. links in sig.

Good luck man.


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## xivex (Jan 27, 2011)

This thread needs more pics!!  damn shit talkers!! hehehe


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## BoomerBloomer57 (Jan 27, 2011)

Hey legallyf,,,,,,,,,,

For you, Stem shots from todays harvest.

Now if you were nice and not so skeptical I'd show ya how much bud came from this stem.


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## NONHater (Jan 27, 2011)

Baseball Bat.


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## legallyflying (Jan 27, 2011)

Super dank.....stem?

I was thinking more along these lines....


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## xivex (Jan 27, 2011)

That is some dank ass shit for sure LF!  Beautiful buds. 

<-- Jealous!


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## Serapis (Jan 27, 2011)

Here is where my scrog is at. 10 days in. Yours looks absolutey mahvelous!


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## BoomerBloomer57 (Jan 27, 2011)

Ya mean these things?


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## legallyflying (Jan 27, 2011)

BoomerBloomer57 said:


> Ya mean these things?


Yeah, those are the things. 

Serapis, how many plants in there? I'm guessing 3-4? I looked and looked for that netting mater4ial but couldn't find it. Is that snow fence?


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## frogster (Jan 27, 2011)

Thx cruzer and Legal, Its a calcium def. entering 3rd week of flowering.. The night temps drop down to 60-62,,, they are stretching like mad right now... I picked up humboldts equalibrium ... 1-1-2 its 12% calcium and 2%mag with a little iron ,, I will foliar feed and add this to the rez.1ml/gal with 4ml/gal Hygrozyme.... Tying down the larger shoots ,,, hmm, ok,, I will,, I have beeen pulling up the smaller ones, I have a nice spaced out screen that has something about everywhere, just uneven heights... I will start trimming the lower mess up, and anything growing out from the lower part of the shoots, and add 1 drop per gallon superthrive to help recover from the hacking..... Damn, this sounds like a long night ahead..... Glad to see some pics that give Legals a run for his money..... Guess I will hack at the supercropped girls also,,,, they are not stretching as much as the scrogged shoots,,, and some of the shoots have developed flowering 8-12" below the top! might get a few monsters....


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## legallyflying (Jan 27, 2011)

If your typical night time drops down to 60 you need to be adding a space heater. That is way to big of a difference. I would save the hygrozyme. Not really needed and I'm njot sure what its going to do to benefit you, that shit is expensive. I'm planning on using it in the first couple weeks on the next cycle but that is only to eat all the dead roots from the last run. 

Foliar feed good. Use a good wetting agent and spray with the lights on.


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jan 27, 2011)

My max highs are 78*F and min lows 58*....and I love Hygrozyme...use it every feed...I will stop using it around week 5-6 of my 10week strain....I can't believe I haven't been using it all along.....I got it on my last grow right at the switch of 12/12 and used it after the fist month of veg on this one....my current grow started to show a little yellowing around the leaf tips like yours in the pic...a week after using, it was all cleared up....amino acids are the shit!!!!!


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## frogster (Jan 27, 2011)

Yea, the humbolts is very strong at 600-800ppm... With all the bennies and enzymes (hygrozyme) im hoping to help my my roots..I can do three rez changes with it ($20). My vegg was horrible and my roots are not what they should be... A nice cleaning of dead material may get them to be where they need to be.. That 1gram a watt figure is taunting me....Gotta do it, no matter what anyone says.... Focus, Focus... Legal, Your temps are much higher than mine and you shouldnt drop to 60-62, everywhere I read ( Jorge Cervantes,, http://books.google.com/books?id=rnwwxoOb3gUC&pg=PA179&lpg=PA179&dq=temperature+drop+marijuana&source=bl&ots=6hXLi0DGmu&sig=a6DELPsmx-1hLLaSqEfMjsGxNzI&hl=en&ei=YgdCTeaYHpLpgAfGh8SzAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=temperature drop marijuana&f=false ) said up to 15 degree drop is good... Fill a brotha' in if you know different.


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## legallyflying (Jan 27, 2011)

I hope I don't get banned for saying this...fuck Jorge. 

He can eat DWC man cheese for all I care.  

Look in the advanced forum fir a recent thread called temps and co2. Look for the links. Great articles on temps!


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jan 27, 2011)

blah blah blah...books are good to a certain extent for the guy starting out but experience is where it's at...no two books will give the same info....trust me...I have all the major grow bibles...from ed to jorge to mel and so on...but none top hands on.

Edit....and to be honest...the best reads aren't even cannabis related...check out Maximum Yield, Rosebud, and Urban Gardener....all have online reads.


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## frogster (Jan 27, 2011)

Legal heres an awesome link to foliar feeding... The heavyweights are swinging away.. https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/296685-lost-art-foliar-feeding.html What do you think caused your plant to not like it? Im foliar feeding tonight... going to stress the plants hacking at them... its going to get ugly in there... I had absolute hell knocking my ph down, couldnt believe how much ph down I hade to use,, I suppose the rez is chelated to hell....


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## legallyflying (Jan 27, 2011)

http://www.simplyhydro.com/foliar_feeding.htm

I would suggest googling the references at the end


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## TheOrganic (Jan 28, 2011)

Seems like these guys are swinging for the fence Endless let them fight....Just saying cause they only shit talk too themselves.(not being a dick I love the shit talk)
But yes the books are all Diff. I rem. reading one years ago and what I learned on riu has added much knowledge and yes hands on is the best way to learn for anything really.
Frogster are you going too foilar feed during bloom?


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## TheRealGreens (Jan 28, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Mostly I think because he grows in this brown stuff in round containers. Dirt? I think he called it?


ROFL!!!! great man I'm working on getting a hydro system set up but until then soil it is......


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## frogster (Jan 28, 2011)

Damn, .... good grief.. Anyone's opinion on that edge burning? .. a few pics of the jungle , I cant believe how much stuff is under there... I foliar feed tonight due to the cal deficiency ,, I added a liitle humic, enzymes and molasses with it.. and a touch of superthrive as i hacked the scrog tonight.... Im sure thinking about foliar feeding in bloom, I have everything for it...


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## legallyflying (Jan 28, 2011)

frogster said:


> Damn, Im looking at the "self diagnose your plants " thread and Its looking like potassium issues.... good grief.. Anyone's opinion on that edge burning? .. a few pics of the jungle , I cant believe how much stuff is under there...


Going down. Going down so hard.


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## frogster (Jan 28, 2011)

I just broke in my local church and "Borrowed" the Holy water.... its all good,,,,, I had 4 stuffed bags of trim, I stuffed all the larger ones in a pot of water, need to read up on what the hell to do with it... judging by the last pic, Im feeling the switch from the schwag gh nutes was a great decision.... Serapis mentioned tying down the larger taller shoots but hell, they are so random in size, screw it... Its a little too late for training , I can deal with an uneven canopy... the edges havnt burned anymore, surprisingly it was on the scrogged side and not the supercropped girls...


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Jan 28, 2011)

I'm subbed just for the shit talk....I love it!!!


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## nugbuckets (Jan 28, 2011)

yo legal, sorry i missed it, but what strain are you running? That is beautiful! Good work.


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## legallyflying (Jan 28, 2011)

nugbuckets said:


> yo legal, sorry i missed it, but what strain are you running? That is beautiful! Good work.


Ummmmm. Aaaah. I thought it was mango kush and blue widow. But my resident weed guru (who gave me the clones) stopped by and said that my blue widow was affgoey. Pretty amazing he can just look at the bud and tell right away what it is. 

Plants look really good. I do need to tie down about 4-5 shoots to even some things out. Flowers are I'm full swing and triches have begun to form.


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## frogster (Jan 28, 2011)

aff"GOEY"? ugh, no, but close...Nug, its a Mexi-brick strain called "NeerWeed"... The finest strain from Mexico of course.... As you can tell from this strain, the colors (posted by Legal in previous pages) attract the non-connoisseur crowd (ie. old ladies,school kids, hippies that love acid, Big Bird ) as they will buy it for its prettiness and since they have 0 tolerance they are very happy with the end product... Legals marketing of this poor quality strain is nothing short of sheer genius. He once sold out his entire crop at a heavily trafficked roadside truckstop with a buy one get one free sale, the people were really buying his scented potpourri for the Steak Knives&apple core device that he was offering with the sale.... but we wont tell him that. The next day news reported a majority of the people fell ill from the additives he personally applies ("legals own" nutrient line, hand squeezed amino acids,uric acids and "Mantien" a flagella protein) he adds these in an attempt to get a true Marijuana High. Luckily no-one caught his tag number. Once an Acid hippie customer after handling Legals "NearWeed" thought he was going to get high from his burning&bloodshot retinas, but quickly discovered it was due to the fact that he wiped his eyes after handling legals "Mantien" saturated product.. The Hippie was actually pleased with the effect from this (the only effect),all his friends tried it, and now Legal has a solid base of customers. Legal doesnt post pictures on this journal much due to the fact that his hands are sore producing large quantities of his nutrient line for the masses, cumming to a hydro shop near you, includes the steak knives &apple core, of course....


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## frogster (Jan 28, 2011)

My canopy is way uneven, I was going to tie down but the short ones are on the ends,,, All the tall ones are in the middle where they get more light of course, so I see no reason to hinder the larger center buds as they are all fairly even... I could have probably used a little more track on the lightrail and the timer delay needs to be adjustable for a longer stop period... dam, separate the room, separate the room.. 2000w over the scrog, move the lights 12 hrs later,,, build a separation, modify control box... hhmmm. uhh, no, pain in the ass.......


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## legallyflying (Jan 28, 2011)

Got Manic?


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## frogster (Jan 29, 2011)

Things have slowed since the hack job on the scrog... my ph climbs like mad, and its a bitch to get down.. takes so much freaking ph down..its aggravating.. I read so much how these nutes and all these supplements are chelated and keep thing s stable... i put the airstones on the power side of the control box pump so it only comes on during fill, but that doesnt seem to help.. I did add a small pump to the large rez to keep circulation going.


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## legallyflying (Jan 29, 2011)

Keep it aerated all the time. Sugars can make ph swing. You have to add ph down cause your ppm's are high. Don't stress. I would worry more about your impending bone crushing defeat


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## frogster (Jan 29, 2011)

*I remembered your advice/comments about the room being too cold... well, My petioles are red,leaves are bluing and darkening before they get the burned edges.... a few more leaves are having signs of a deficiency.. not as bad as it was,,, P gets locked out at temps below 50degrees, but this does not look like the p deficiency. pictures I see..so, wtf? thought it was calcium but I added calcium and have foliar sprayed... I am going to raise my nutrient tank temp to about 68 and leave it there, my tank is usually at 61-63 when the lights first come on, but im sure the remaining water in the buckets are a lot colder,, so im thinking the roots are a bit cold and are having a difficult time... 
*


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## frogster (Jan 29, 2011)

Here are a few more pics, really early (parts are darker) then the beginning burned edges and then the final look.... To recap, Im using humdoldts mastera&b, sea mag, ginourmous, fulvic acid, added 2ml Hi-brix for my bennie tea(aquashield,zho, molasses, ewc) 4mlhygrozyme just added 2 days ago...feeding 3 15min times during lights on and one at night to let oxygen to the roots, ppm are right at 800 with tap being 60ppm, ppm were climbing until today..it seems to have leveled off... rez temps at lights on about 60 degrees.. high room temp is about 78max.... roots may be getting too cold during lights off and cool nutes may be locking out P??? I added a 12% calcium (also has iron and mg)and foliar feed with it .. I have had high ph for a couple of days and had a difficult time knocking it down,,, The deficiency seems to have slowed and the leaves changing now may be from the deficiency, although showing up a little late?


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## frogster (Jan 30, 2011)

The scrogged ladies grew last night, nice white hairs showing on all the sites now... the nutes are at 750 and my ph still climbed from 5.6-6.5 in 12hrs. with the airstones in... I will lower the ph and the ppm a little more tonight... I will add another heater to the room for lights out, trying to keep it from getting below 65.. next few days are going to be really cold (-14 low, 5 for the high) and Im sure that the one heater cant keep things warm in there....


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## legallyflying (Jan 30, 2011)

huh your climbing PH sounds weird but then again, you have a metric shit ton of different stuff in your rez.


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## frogster (Jan 30, 2011)

Could be related to the hygrozyme that was just added (dead root matter coming off) and the bennies eating away , leaving ammonia... and/or the crappy gh ph down I was using causing ammonia. i just bought the good AN ph down, strong stuff! and doesn't cause ammonia ... it still took 40ml of the AN ph down to get it from 6.7 to 5.6 just a few minutes ago... crap!


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## legallyflying (Jan 30, 2011)

http://www.amsterdammarijuanaseedbank.com/Growguides/troubleshootingsolutions/marijuana-nutrient-disorders.html


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## frogster (Jan 30, 2011)

Yea,,, great read..makes since to me... too much p with c can cause k-c to lockout and flocculate....I after e only after a... what if C.A.T really meant D.O.G.... ! blah, blah blah....fucking nutrients........ they should just makes a multimeter that reads every fucking element........ this whole nutrient thing is a big clusterfuck,,,,,,, so are separate mh and hps lights....... And I totally get your "read the plants man" dumb shit attitude from some people.... I have enough standard Humboldts part a&b ( here goes the fucking alphabet again) to do one more rez change, if that crap doesnt do well, its adios Humboldts and back to the flora nova bloom..... then Im concentrating on developing my new lighting system with the local university... Big meeting tomorrow with the University board to get their blessing to develop it... TOMATO plants of course....


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## frogster (Jan 30, 2011)

AHH. Here we grow... I just need an extra $20, 000 to get a few itemm ,,, no problem.. : 
If you&#8217;re lucky enough to have an unlimited budget when setting up a high-tech greenhouse, you&#8217;ll want to consider the following items:


_Multi-sensor quantum light meter&#8212;_ Many light meters used by small growers only measure in foot candles or lux, both of which are not particularly useful when it comes to plant usable radiation, or PAR (photosynthetically active radiation). No point measuring light that the plants can&#8217;t use. Quantum sensors measure light energy in the specific wavelengths that plants actually use for photosynthesis, and so give a much more accurate reading of what useful light is being provided naturally and/or artificially with grow lamps. Meters with a sensor bar attached are the best option as light can be more accurately determined in different positions within the plant canopy. A multi-sensory quantum light meter is ideal for small or large hydroponics growers.
_Chlorophyll meter&#8212;_ Chlorophyll meters are another useful tool and fun gadget for giving an indication of plant health and stress before growth becomes adversely affected. There are a number of models of chlorophyll meters on the market, from some quite simple versions to the high-tech, integrated data-logging model. Chlorophyll content is instantly measured by clamping the sensor over a leaf and receiving an indexed chlorophyll content reading. The Minolta SPAF 502 DL meter is one of the most advanced chlorophyll meters on the market. It&#8217;s not only a useful crop-diagnostic tool, but also a great learning tool for classroom experiments and student projects.
_Individual nutrient element meters (Cardy) or complete onsite nutrient analysis systems (Merck)&#8212;_ There are a few different individual nutrient element measurement systems on the market. However, for the hydroponic grower who wants a quick, accurate and simple to use analysis system, the Cardy element meters are a good choice. These small pocket-sized meters can measure nitrate, potassium or sodium quickly and easily, so are great for basic nutrient analysis. Cardy plant nutrient meters are particularly useful for those who might be growing fruiting crops and need to measure the nitrate-to-potassium ratio and levels on a daily basis. Also, for growers who battle sodium in the water supply, a quick check with the Cardy sodium meter will determine when levels of sodium have accumulated in recirculating hydroponic systems and determine when solution dumping is required.
 For a more complete and advanced nutrient analysis system, Merck Ltd. has a selection of element analysis systems designed for agricultural, water-based systems, aquaculture, food production and hydroponics. The Merck Reflectoquant system is a remission photometer (RQflex) that uses individual element test strips for evaluation of nutrient levels. A major advantage of the RQflex for hydroponic growers is that all of the macro-nutrients and many of the trace elements be tested with this system. It can also be used to determine pH, chlorine and peroxide levels in solution. This is great for growers who use hydrogen peroxide or chlorine in their systems for sterilization purposes, because dangerously high residues could damage sensitive crops. The Merck Reflectoquant can also be used in product-quality determination as one of its major applications is in the food-processing industry. Ascorbic acid (vitamin C), glucose, acidity, pH, malic acid, and others can be assessed in fruit and vegetable samples, giving growers a good option for quality assessment from their hydroponic crops. Also, the system can be used for soil samples, media samples, analysis of fertilizer as well as standard hydroponic nutrient solution testing and checking. This system of analysis is well worth the investment as instant results with nutrient composition can be obtained&#8212;no waiting two weeks for the lab to return analysis results. Rapid nutrient readings are invaluable to any hydroponic grower when a delay in nutrient adjustment could lead to crop failure. 


_Complete water quality analysis system&#8212; _good water quality is vital for any hydroponic system. However, water parameters tend to change over time and need regular testing and assessment. Hydroponic operations can also make good use of water analysis systems that measure dissolved oxygen&#8212;an important aspect affecting crop health and productivity. The U-10 water quality analysis, available from Spectrum Technologies, gives highly accurate, on-site water testing, measuring pH, temperature, dissolved oxygen, electrolytic conductivity, turbidity, and salinity. Applications for hydroponic producers not only include solution testing and water supply evaluation but also checking the parameters of waste water, solution drainage, aquaponic tank systems and any other water source involved in the hydroponic production system. The unit is also portable and waterproof, important options for hydroponic growers.
_DO meter&#8212;_ Unlimited budgets would allow for maximum use of monitoring equipment, and a dissolved oxygen meter is a tool all commercial growers should have. However, in systems such as NFT, pond or raft setups, having multiple sensors placed around the production system becomes the ultimate in monitoring and control. As with EC, ppm and pH meters, dissolved oxygen meters have come a long way since the early days of large, lab-based machines. Now, oxygen can be measured in situ, which is important since the DO levels can be influenced by taking samples and transporting these to a lab for measurement. Hydroponic systems do allow very accurate measurement of dissolved oxygen in solution&#8212;either at the nutrient reservoir or around the production system, even in the root zone of many systems. Hand-held, easy to operate and highly accurate dissolved oxygen meters not only measure DO but also percentage saturation at the current temperature of the solution being measured, a useful tool for growers who need to measure and improve the degree of oxygenation in their hydroponics system. Even small hobbyist growers can find a use for DO meters to check and adjust their aeration methods for maximum plant benefit. There are many excellent DO meters on the market. Hanna Instruments has a waterproof meter&#8212;HI9142&#8212;that&#8217;s well suited to hydroponic applications and certainly worth the investment.
_Meter for measuring pH in solution and in media&#8212;_ There are plenty of well-designed, waterproof and accurate pH meters available for hydroponic applications. While these are well suited to NFT and other solution-culture growers, those with media systems often find them less useful. pH levels in the root zone of media-grown crops are important as they effect nutrient availability for plant uptake and need to be maintained within a certain range. While it is possible to create a liquid media extract or to collect solution leachate, should there be any, these are not always totally representative of what might be occurring in the root zone. The IQ 150 pH meter from Spectrum Technologies allows for pH measurement in soil, media and water/nutrient solutions. The probe on this meter can be used to measure pH directly in the growing media on site, giving instant readings of pH levels in the root zone as well as those in the nutrient solution and water supply.
_MiScope Digital IMP Camera and Macroscope&#8212;_ Here&#8217;s a really great toy for classroom hydroponics and science fair projects, as well as any grower who likes to focus on the finer details&#8212;a digital microscope that fits in the palm of your hand. Macroscopes have been round for quite a while and are commonly used for magnifying small insect pests, plant disease symptoms and other plant disorders. The MiScope Digital IMP Camera and Macroscope goes one step further and combines a digital movie camera, built in LED lighting and precision options in a small hand-held microscope. This gives 40&#8212;140x magnification so the finer details of tiny insect pests and the leaf surface can be easily seen up on the computer screen and then captured as images or movies for later viewing. The IPM Scope connects to a computer USB port and is ideal for teaching or staff training operations out in the greenhouse with use of a laptop. Identification of many crop pests, disease symptoms and beneficial insects becomes an easier process as many people can view the footage in either real time or as recorded files in large format on the computer screen.
_Pocket digital refractometer&#8212;_ Refractometers are another instrument that has been in horticultural use for a long time. Hand-held brix, or total soluble solids, meters are most commonly used in the wine industry to determine when sugar levels in grapes are high enough for harvest. However, many other industries also use refractometers to gauge crop maturity, food quality and other aspects. They are one of the most useful tools for fruit and vegetable assessment if used correctly. For the unlimited budget there is even an attractive new digital hand-held refractometer that fits in your pocket. Brix is a reliable measure of product quality and, in particular, eating quality or flavor (sweetness) in many common hydroponic crops such as tomatoes, strawberries, capsicum, melons, and many others. It&#8217;s a tool that producers should know how to use. The problem with the old manual brix meters has always been the scale, which needs to be read by eye, and it can be difficult to get a high degree of accuracy between samples that are relatively close in brix levels. The digital refractometer has an accuracy of 0.2% and measures in increments of 0.1%. New digital hand-held refractometer measures accurately (± 0.2%) with a scale of 0-53% and fits in your pocket. It also has automatic temperature compensation and a large digital display and can obtain readings from minute samples via a special sensor unit. This is a must-have tool for hydroponic growers who like to regularly assess the quality of their crop or compare samples from within a crop.
_Infrared thermometer&#8212;_ Infrared thermometers are in widespread use in the food industry. For example, infrared thermometers are used to gauge food temperatures to ensure proper storage. They also have many applications for hydroponic use, and unlike many of the smaller techno gadgets, they won&#8217;t break the bank. Infrared thermometers operate by shining an infrared beam of light onto the surface of an object&#8212;the temperature of the surface is then recorded and displayed in either Fahrenheit or Celsius on the meter&#8217;s digital display.
 Leaf, or canopy, temperature usually differs from air temperature, and so should be checked, particularly under warm or high-light conditions. Plant leaves transpire, cooling them in the process. A healthy, activity photosynthesizing crop will have leaf temperature close to that of the air temperature. A crop that has shut down and closed the stomata will have a leaf temperature above that of the air temperature and eventually it will begin to wilt. The objective of measuring leaf temperature is to assess plant stress and prevent problems with plants shutting down during the course of the day due to heat, humidity problems or other disorders.
Infrared readings can also be taken of the nutrient solution at any point in a hydroponic system and are also great for checking solution temperatures in NFT channels, pond, raft systems or nutrient tanks. Their other important use for infrared meters is during post-harvest handling and storage to gauge temperature reductions after harvest.


_Dew point/temp/RH meter&#8212;_While most high tech greenhouse set up on an unlimited budget will have all the sensors and monitors available, its still nice to have a few hand held gadgets for extra spot checks inside the crop. The portable Thermo-hydrometer with dew point is a hand held meter that displays temperature and temperature compensated humidity readings side by side. A digital sling Psychrometer unit is also available (3411WB) from Spectrum Technologies which gives a measurement of wet bulb temperatures. For growers experiencing humidity and resultant disease outbreaks such as botrytis in certain areas of a greenhouse or crop, this is a useful tool for determining where humid areas form so that adjustments in heating and air movement can be carried out for disease prevention.
_Hanna portable, printing and loggin pH/ORP meters&#8212;_ Hanna Instruments has long been a manufacturer of some of the best electronic meters for hydroponics. Nowadays growers can select from a larger range of &#8220;combo&#8221; meters which are great for measuring a number of important variables in the nutrient solution. As an added bonus, some of the Hanna products also have printing and logging functions for data collection. The Hanna HI 98230 and HI 98240 pH meters are a step up in the pH meter department&#8212;they have a built in plain paper printer, so no more scribbling down pH readings or relying on memory. It also has logging and log on demand features so data can also be stored for later access and downloading to a PC. These meters also come with an internal temperature sensor, buffers and electrode cleaning solution&#8212;all the necessities for accurate pH measurement in hydroponic systems.
_Combination meters&#8212;_Many meters manufacturers offer a huge range of &#8220;combo&#8221; meters, with most growers these days having at least EC and pH combined on the same meter, if not more parameters for nutrient solution assessment. The advantage of these meters are their long life, accuracy and being waterproof also helps for the accidental splashes. With more and more parameters being offered on the single meter, a good choice are the meters which integrate EC, ppm, pH and temperature of which there are a number of models. To go one step further, the Hanna HI9835 waterproof, auto ranging, EC/TDS/NaCl/ and temperature meter is a great tool for hydroponic growers, particularly those who like to monitor salinity build up in their systems or are dealing with saline water sources. These meters also feature automatic calibration and battery consumption displays with a single probe for all measurements and a large LCD screen for display of all readings.
 You&#8217;ve outfitted your high-tech hydroponic greenhouse with nothing but the best equipment money can buy. You&#8217;ve every reason to expect your investment to yield improvements in crop growth, productivity and quality. But there&#8217;s still one missing ingredient: knowledge. You&#8217;ll need to learn as much as possible about hydroponics and horticulture if you&#8217;re to make good decisions based on the reams of data you&#8217;ll now have at your fingertips. 
One of the best and easiest ways to add to your knowledge is buying and reading books and magazines about hydroponics, such as Growing Edge. Another good way is by taking an advanced course in hydroponic greenhouse design, controlled environment agriculture and hydroponic production.
Dr. Lynette Morgan is a regular contributor to The Growing Edge. She holds a Ph.D. in Vegetable Production from Massey University, New Zealand.
For the complete version of this article, see The Growing Edge, Volume 17, Number 1, September/October 2005, page 26.


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## legallyflying (Jan 30, 2011)

You just need to simmer down, stop changing everything around and just figure out what is going on. Wish I could help but I know nothing about those nutrients. I would guess your over feeding. What does you hydro store say? 

So you ARE going to revise your gram/watt goals right? I guess you are learning one thing, nutrients during veg is the easy part.


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## frogster (Jan 30, 2011)

Actually , thumbing through a few pages of these individual meters.... hmm... not too pricey .. and you can detect lockouts as they happen instead of waiting to "Read the plants man" ...lol.... I will have to investigate this crap further... I have lowered my ppm.... The "self diagnose" articles with pics really need a few more pics.... a few of the deficiencies look too damn similar... and read too damn similar.... In almost all cases its ph related it seems like... yea, im chilling... just get spikes of total fucking aggravation that I spent so much damn $$ on these high end , do all, best- yaddas yadda nutes and Im having issues.... I have my ph in check.... the girls are recovering... guess hacking them at the same time as a deficiency was a good time... As far as my gram per watt... uhh, ,, hell no!! Im sticking to it... what doesnt kill them makes them stronger it seems... your last yield came out nice even with your 4day ?? flush.... so , with this stress Im raising my 1gram/watt to 1.1g per ..lol


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## frogster (Jan 30, 2011)

Ok, back to what everyone, including myself like... Bud porn... The girls are starting to smell a little,, woohoo,, and I see crystals forming on the leaves ... yumm


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## newstrainnewrules (Jan 31, 2011)

aww they grow up so fast


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 31, 2011)

frogster said:


> Actually , thumbing through a few pages of these individual meters.... hmm... not too pricey .. and you can detect lockouts as they happen instead of waiting to "Read the plants man" ...lol.... I will have to investigate this crap further... I have lowered my ppm.... The "self diagnose" articles with pics really need a few more pics.... a few of the deficiencies look too damn similar... and read too damn similar.... In almost all cases its ph related it seems like... yea, im chilling... just get spikes of total fucking aggravation that I spent so much damn $$ on these high end , do all, best- yaddas yadda nutes and Im having issues.... I have my ph in check.... the girls are recovering... guess hacking them at the same time as a deficiency was a good time... As far as my gram per watt... uhh, ,, hell no!! Im sticking to it... what doesnt kill them makes them stronger it seems... your last yield came out nice even with your 4day ?? flush.... so , with this stress Im raising my 1gram/watt to 1.1g per ..lol


 Let me know about the prices and brand name on those meters that can detect lock-out I would be interested in that I agree waiting till it shows in the leaf's is never a good thing.


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## legallyflying (Jan 31, 2011)

I'm with bizzle, I'm always pissed when I don't notice problems before burnt tips. My girls are fucking mackin on nutes right now; on the order of almost 100 ppm a day. Been adding nutes daily to keep ppm at 1200. Going to 1500 next week but that is as high as I am going to take them. 

Started foliar feeding with my home made liquid light (liquid karma and a locally made molasses/amino product). They really seem to like it. 

Did a round of understory trimming of lower leaves that were not liking it and whatever bud starts I missed before. Ants have found my grow room


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## frogster (Jan 31, 2011)

Ants like the molasses.... are you feeding right before lights on? Foliar feeding should have slowed your nute uptake a bit.... I need to do a rez change (early).... They are taking water but the ppm are climbing... although i see new growth... I was reading a little about the uv lights... need to dive in a little more.... Im going to leave all the remaining smaller growth and smaller popcorn buds under the canopy and larger buds, I want to reveg and get another crop out of this one, I have read a few journals... one guy gets a bigger crop the second&third time, but three times is the limit.... You will have your next set of ladies ready or you can try the same? Scrogg off II "The reveg"


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## RawBudzski (Jan 31, 2011)

MY PLANTS ARE SLOW BECAUSE LAST NIGHT TEMPS HIT 45 degrees in their room. SO i took off my GLASS hood to warm things up


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## legallyflying (Jan 31, 2011)

frogster said:


> . Im going to leave all the remaining smaller growth and smaller popcorn buds under the canopy and larger buds, I want to reveg and get another crop out of this one, I have read a few journals... one guy gets a bigger crop the second&third time, but three times is the limit.... You will have your next set of ladies ready or you can try the same? Scrogg off II "The reveg"


You sure it shouldn't b titled "scrog off reveg, the waste of time"? If someone is getting more buds the second and "third time" then I am of the opinion that they are full of shit. There is simply no way that the undergrowth would ever yield more than the main colas and dominant growing shoots. My clones for the next round just started to send out roots. Veg tent should be fully up and chugging in about 10 days. In the 2-3 weeks it would take to mature the lower buds, I'll be almost half way through the flowering period of the next crop. 

No commercial grower I know tries to get a 2nd harvest, let alone a 3rd. I'm telling you the popcorn bud is a waste of time unless you like smoking weak buds, you sure as hell are not going to sell it. Its impossible to sell anything less than grade A buds around here.


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## frogster (Jan 31, 2011)

RIU member Gypsybush goes into a full revegg... The roots and stalks get bigger than the previous... New buds are formed.. He cuts the "popcorn" bud off early after it swells, he has pics of Golfball&tennisball buds that were popcorn... Besides , I havnt done clones for a next round as I want to move asap... But yea, I agree, If you have plants ready to go into flower that would be way faster as it takes time to go into revegg and it takes more time to vegg, and then flip to flower.... Revegging would be a good alternative if you dont have clones ready...


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## xivex (Jan 31, 2011)

Revegging seems gay imho... Id rather just clone. im needing more pics here guys!


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## legallyflying (Jan 31, 2011)

xivex said:


> Revegging seems gay imho... Id rather just clone. im needing more pics here guys!



sooo fucking gay. I think re vegging is the teenage equivalent of practicing french kissing with your pillow.


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## frogster (Jan 31, 2011)

You have never seen my pillowcase.... I cant clone right now... otherwise i would..... I have posted a few pics recently, Legals turn......... room was at 54 degrees when I got home! Ran out and put an extra heater in... I may have to turn off my exhaust fan during lights out and just blow fresh air in with a fan in front of the intake (comes from my living room... ) The shed isnt 100% sealed (it is from light) and its sucking in cold air in places... (cracks around door, cracks below floor even though I have plywood below and panda plastic over it) I was reading another journal and the guy said his plants were at 45degrees when he walked in the room,,,yikes...


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## frogster (Jan 31, 2011)

Still have issues... now major ones.... I switched from h202 to bennies awhile back due to brown algae in the rez and roots.... I suppose I should have blasted the crap out of the roots before i switched to bennies.. The roots have never shaken the brown slime.. the rez has been fine, but the poulation of the algae on the roots is too much for the bennies to overtake.. These roots look the same as they have 3 weeks ago, no growth and a little more brown and slime... crappy looking roots for going into 3rd week of bloom... I have zero growth going on.. just a little stretch... Im heading out in the snow to get h202 and blast the crap out of the roots , then do a res change...its going to be a long night.....


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## Dick Moser (Jan 31, 2011)

wow, i just puked a little in my mouth, and i was totally rooting for you bro  haha best of luck and i still got your back but the frogs still the underdog.


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## RawBudzski (Jan 31, 2011)

I would cry.


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## legallyflying (Feb 1, 2011)

Damn dude, that is all the root growth you have? This shit is in the bag.  I might even just lock the door, stop feeding, and come back in 5 weeks to see what happened.

Seriously though.. ugghh dude. I don't know where to begin...


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## legallyflying (Feb 1, 2011)

Pictures for my man xivex and the rest of those that subbed up. Going to be looking really nice in a couple more weeks...


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## frogster (Feb 1, 2011)

Yea,,, I dont think those roots have grown for a month... So, these pics explain the ph swings and the deficiencies... Thought I had these issues resolved..... I just poured 6000ml h202 into 20gal of water and poured it straight into my control box... took out everything in the res and drained it.. going to pump the h202 treated filled buckets into the res after an hr or two,,, and let it set in the res a bit, then drain that out and flush everything.. This wouldn't be so bad except my water line is frozen solid and I am flushing and carrying 10gallons of water at a time from my tub,, fun, fun! lol.(and I broke a rib a couple weeks ago).. Ahh, being a noob... Its sucks to see the mistakes after you make them... Your plants are banging... Looking primo.. I may have to start showing pics of someone elses grow from now on... I really cant believe my roots look so piss poor... Well, Better get back to it if I at least want to keep them alive and finish with a harvest of some sorts... .. No sleep tonight...


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## frogster (Feb 1, 2011)

Ok, what should have been an hours work, lasted all night...everything sanitized. Nothing like toting 10gallons at a time... I flushed with 80 gallons through the buckets and drained through the rez...then filled.. .. set the ppm at 200.. ... .. Hope the ladies appreciate it...


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## BoomerBloomer57 (Feb 1, 2011)

Oh man that is some gunk!

Nothing but air stones and airline and roots in my Igloos.


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## Danielsgb (Feb 1, 2011)

frogster said:


> OK, what should have been an hours work, lasted all night...everything sanitized. Nothing like toting 10gallons at a time... I flushed with 80 gallons through the buckets and drained through the rez...then filled.. .. set the ppm at 200.. ... .. Hope the ladies appreciate it...


Wow that makes me feel better about the 25 gal. I carried around Sunday. 
I use RiddleMe's Make it Rain technique, which he describes as hydro in soil. I have semi-wood from that list of meters, mainly the one for PAR. I hope you got everything dialed in now.
You guy's shit talking is hilarious. 
Daniels


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## Icky (Feb 1, 2011)

Hey legal

Just finished reading both your other diary and this, end to end, really great read looking forward to seeing some results, should be a bumper one

My interest in your set-up stems from the fact I'm starting a pretty similar set-up soon, 2x600HPS,1x600MH, 5x10x8 room, sealed with ducted lights, 8000 BTU window ac unit, CO2 (tank with sensor) and dehu, all controlled by a Harvest Master Pro and running an 8 pot RDWC set-up in a scrog

You can probably see the parallels between the set-ups, and you've definitely had some success (!) so I was wondering what insights you could give me into ideal temps and humidity levels with the CO2?

You run humidity high during veg, lower during flower and then cut co2, temps and humidity all down extra far for the last couple weeks of flower as far as I can tell - is that about right? 

I have grown some stuff in the past, but until now never in a sealed room, looking forward!.. hope I can get these clones asap!

Really appreciate it bro, hope you don't mind me asking on the thread, pics are looking ridic, love the way those fan leaves just stand to attention 


EDIT: Ah jeeze, I just read the 'don't post' thing.. sorry guys.. mods can delete...


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## xivex (Feb 1, 2011)

LF,

Those pics are sick mate!! . Awesome. The canopy is so even and smooth im totally jealous! Cant wait to get my clones and start round 2 soon! 

Keep it up guys, this thread = win!


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## frogster (Feb 1, 2011)

Yea... had 2hr nap this a.m. Have buisness for 2 days up north... left written instructions with my son... Oh boy! This may do them in! lol.. No he's really good ... Did a half fill and used standard gh micro nutes and added a little ginourmous (p-k) to get an even mix... running 240ppm... we'll see when I get back... Do another rez change... see ya guys...


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## legallyflying (Feb 1, 2011)

Icky said:


> Hey legal
> 
> You can probably see the parallels between the set-ups, and you've definitely had some success (!) so I was wondering what insights you could give me into ideal temps and humidity levels with the CO2?
> 
> ...


That's about the jist of it. I let the humidity range from 60-75 during veg, I pretty much leave it alone. Temps during veg can also climb to 90 as long as your lights are not too close. In flower I drop the humidity down to 40, or at least try to as I need to get a better dehumidifier. I would even go down to say 35% humidity in flower as the dry conditions will stimulate oil production (as the theory goes anyway) but low humidity and high temps can cause stomata to close). Temps during flower I like to keep around 85-87 although sometimes it climbs a LITTLE higher. Co2 levels are... 1st week of veg (rooted clones) 700, 2-5 weeks and the first week of flip I like to keep around 1000-1100. Week 2-6 is when I crank it up to 1500. This round I waited until the 3rd week of flower to hit them with 1500. I think the biggest thing that people ignore is the night time temperatures. You want to keep nighttime temps within 5-7 degrees of daytime. Especially in veg as it will keep the plants compact. During the last two weeks of flower I run Co2 at around 600 and let nightime temps plummet. I am thinking about letting outside air in at night to get the room into the 60's. Supposedly helps with oil production. The presence of high levels of co2 during the last weeks of veg will suppress the production of ethylene which promotes maturation of the flowers. 

Other biggies.. Keep your rez cool, if you can't then your going to have to go the h2o2 route. 3ml per gallon every three days or you will end up with the mess froggy has. A little superthrive goes a long way and roots excelerator (although criminally expensive) works very very well. I make one rez last about 3 weeks during veg just so I don't have to mix 50 gallons worth of excellerator.  . 

And last, and most importantly buy QUALITY meters, let your PH drift a little, and don't overfeed your plants!!! Very difficult at times to resist when they start chugging along and popping flowers etc. If you look at your plants closely you can see signs of something amiss. If your feeding lightly, you can be fairly certain that the problem is a deficiency, not a complicated mix of too high salt content in the roots, nutrient antagonism locking some nutrients up, or a whole host of other problems. Then, with your good meters (and your knowledge of how much of each nutrient will increase the ppm..cause you WROTE IT DOWN) you can add a balanced mixture of nutes straight into the rez to raise the PPM. The amount of stress put on a plant because she wants a little more nutes is MUCH LESS than the amount of stress caused by burning them with nutes. If you ever see burnt tips, you have to tell yourself "I need to up my game because it should have never reached this point".

I'm not perfect (see the curling edges of the flower pic...heat stress) but I am always working to keep the environment perfect. People say that the plants are there babies, and then go about abusing them in hopes of higher performance. Give them a nice happy home, keep them warm and safe at night, and don't wake them during the night with a flashlight in their eyes. Or you can go the complete newb route... cram food down their throat until they puke, sit them in an oven during the day and freeze them at night, change the foods you give them at whim, smear miracle creams on them and then when they cry, punch them in the stomach and bath their feet in battery acid. 

They will still grow up and flower, but they will be the human equivalent of mouth breathing NASCAR fan strippers with poor teeth.... And nobody wants to go down on that.


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## Dick Moser (Feb 1, 2011)

you had me at mouth breathing......


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## nugbuckets (Feb 1, 2011)

well said legal!....your scene is epic...nice canopy.


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## Icky (Feb 1, 2011)

hh


legallyflying said:


> That's about the jist of it. I let the humidity range from 60-75 during veg, I pretty much leave it alone. Temps during veg can also climb to 90 as long as your lights are not too close. In flower I drop the humidity down to 40, or at least try to as I need to get a better dehumidifier. I would even go down to say 35% humidity in flower as the dry conditions will stimulate oil production (as the theory goes anyway) but low humidity and high temps can cause stomata to close). Temps during flower I like to keep around 85-87 although sometimes it climbs a LITTLE higher. Co2 levels are... 1st week of veg (rooted clones) 700, 2-5 weeks and the first week of flip I like to keep around 1000-1100. Week 2-6 is when I crank it up to 1500. This round I waited until the 3rd week of flower to hit them with 1500. I think the biggest thing that people ignore is the night time temperatures. You want to keep nighttime temps within 5-7 degrees of daytime. Especially in veg as it will keep the plants compact. During the last two weeks of flower I run Co2 at around 600 and let nightime temps plummet. I am thinking about letting outside air in at night to get the room into the 60's. Supposedly helps with oil production. The presence of high levels of co2 during the last weeks of veg will suppress the production of ethylene which promotes maturation of the flowers.


 Yup yup gotcha, should have the capability to do that without too much drama. So you don't get too worried about the closed stomata? Not a big prob at the levels you run? 


> Other biggies.. Keep your rez cool, if you can't then your going to have to go the h2o2 route. 3ml per gallon every three days or you will end up with the mess froggy has. A little superthrive goes a long way and roots excelerator (although criminally expensive) works very very well. I make one rez last about 3 weeks during veg just so I don't have to mix 50 gallons worth of excellerator.  .


 Res will be outside the area, so hopefully should be able to keep it cool. I'll probably give them h2o2 anyway if it's seeming beneficial, don't want no brown roots 

I'll be using the whole House and Garden range (except for maybe the drip clean, dont think we can get it here ) so roots excellerator is on the cards. Superthrive I have used for years and will never not use (for veg) (probably )


> And last, and most importantly buy QUALITY meters, let your PH drift a little, and don't overfeed your plants!!! Very difficult at times to resist when they start chugging along and popping flowers etc. If you look at your plants closely you can see signs of something amiss. If your feeding lightly, you can be fairly certain that the problem is a deficiency, not a complicated mix of too high salt content in the roots, nutrient antagonism locking some nutrients up, or a whole host of other problems. Then, with your good meters (and your knowledge of how much of each nutrient will increase the ppm..cause you WROTE IT DOWN) you can add a balanced mixture of nutes straight into the rez to raise the PPM. The amount of stress put on a plant because she wants a little more nutes is MUCH LESS than the amount of stress caused by burning them with nutes. If you ever see burnt tips, you have to tell yourself "I need to up my game because it should have never reached this point".


I'm good with detailing, and I have a BlueLabs Guardian thingy. I hate to overfeed



> I'm not perfect (see the curling edges of the flower pic...heat stress) but I am always working to keep the environment perfect. People say that the plants are there babies, and then go about abusing them in hopes of higher performance. Give them a nice happy home, keep them warm and safe at night, and don't wake them during the night with a flashlight in their eyes. Or you can go the complete newb route... cram food down their throat until they puke, sit them in an oven during the day and freeze them at night, change the foods you give them at whim, smear miracle creams on them and then when they cry, punch them in the stomach and bath their feet in battery acid.
> 
> They will still grow up and flower, but they will be the human equivalent of mouth breathing NASCAR fan strippers with poor teeth.... And nobody wants to go down on that.


Yup, that's why I decided on the Harvest Master, should have everything dialled in pretty fine before anything gets to the room. And I'll be feeding RO'd water so should have a smooth(ish) run with the nute solution as long as I treat the medium. What kind of size dehumidifier do you need for your room? Wondering if mine will be big enough, it's only about 10 gal per day



Cheers heaps buddy. Really useful info


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## legallyflying (Feb 2, 2011)

Right now my lowes 50 pint is barely keeping up. Had a really hard time once my plants in the veg tent start growing fast as well. Looking to buy a "real" basement or crawl space dehumidifier but they are pricey. ($1200). But, it won't run all fucking day and night which is a good thing. I'm spending $60 a month just to run that dehu!


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## casey0000000 (Feb 2, 2011)

how does scrog work?


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## legallyflying (Feb 2, 2011)

casey0000000 said:


> how does scrog work?


It works much like fucking google.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 2, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> It works much like fucking google.


Legit LOL.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Whats+a+SCROG


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 2, 2011)

casey0000000 said:


> how does scrog work?


Casey let me introduce you to google.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Whats+a+SCROG


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## nugbuckets (Feb 2, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> It works much like fucking google.


DUDE...you are such a prick....i fucking love it!!!!


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## JimBro (Feb 2, 2011)

so, how exactly does a 'fucking google' differ from scrog? i'm pretty happy with scrog, but I'll give it a shot.


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## the cloner (Feb 2, 2011)

this thread is a great read an funny as f$£k.
legal you grow is class. heres my scrog 5wks in flower my first grow.
wot do you think ?


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## legallyflying (Feb 2, 2011)

Looking good cloner. Very nice buds at 5th week. Your pics make me wonder about adding a little more nitrogen during flower to help fight off some of the yellowing. I always wonder if yields would be higher if the plants were not dropping levee so early. I'm getting some leaves falling off already and tomorrow marks start of week 4


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## jelmo44 (Feb 3, 2011)

week 6


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## legallyflying (Feb 3, 2011)

jelmo44 said:


> View attachment 1420229 week 6


Looking sweet. Also looks like a little zinc deficiency or perhaps mag but more likely zinc with that strong intervenal banding. Whats your PH at?


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## jelmo44 (Feb 3, 2011)

are you sure its just not yellowing because its going to be harvested in a week and a half? the PH from my run off is a little lower then 7


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## legallyflying (Feb 3, 2011)

ahhhhh that makes sense I thought you were still2-3 weeks out the yellowing looked really banded in the other photo. What strain is that?


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## the cloner (Feb 3, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Looking good cloner. Very nice buds at 5th week. Your pics make me wonder about adding a little more nitrogen during flower to help fight off some of the yellowing. I always wonder if yields would be higher if the plants were not dropping levee so early. I'm getting some leaves falling off already and tomorrow marks start of week 4


 cheers legal do you think abit of n would help even with just 3wks left??


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## xivex (Feb 3, 2011)

the cloner said:


> cheers legal do you think abit of n would help even with just 3wks left??


A little N wouldnt hurt imho. Keep em green till the flush if you can for best results. Hope this helps...


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## jelmo44 (Feb 3, 2011)

It's a crystal with what we are pretty sure is an Incan Spirit father. So you guys think I could get away with one more feeding? The trichs are allready atleast 25% milky so I stopped and gave it a flush. Slowly the yellowing started with the crazy bands and some of the leaves have a maroon/purple/red color to them, its pretty cool. My friend grew the same (not organic though, but from the same mother) and all three of his finished in 6 weeks. In ten days I will be at 8 weeks. so with 25% of the trichs milky would I be good with one more feeding?


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## jelmo44 (Feb 3, 2011)

and crystal is NL X White Widow


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## legallyflying (Feb 3, 2011)

Jelmo, I can't really offer good nute advice for you as your a dirt based farmer. I would advise you to drop down to 8/16 on the lights and decrease night time temps to speed up maturity. It works very well. Also, plan for 48 hours of no lights before you chop them


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## jelmo44 (Feb 3, 2011)

Will that speed up just the maturity of the trichs or also the swelling of the buds? I don't want to just speed up the maturity on the trichs and lose the swelling


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## legallyflying (Feb 3, 2011)

I think you would be hard pressed to get one without the other. Maturation is a function of flowering hormone. This hormone is always being produced bit is degraded (almost instantly) by the presence of light. Increasing the dark period will increase hormon levels, just like in nature.


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## jelmo44 (Feb 3, 2011)

But there are other girls in the room who just started their 12 12 cycle so I would have to completely move it out of the room at this point


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## RawBudzski (Feb 3, 2011)

i now declare myself the winner.


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## legallyflying (Feb 3, 2011)

jelmo44 said:


> But there are other girls in the room who just started their 12 12 cycle so I would have to completely move it out of the room at this point


Ohh, well you fucked then. Chop them all down and start over


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## jelmo44 (Feb 3, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Ohh, well you fucked then. Chop them all down and start over


 I will think about that.....

 This was today but when I was checking the trichs there was a bunch that were cloudy then I move to the next nug and they were mostly clear and then the next would be more cloudy with an amber.... it kept changing, so I just left it for longer 

hmmm?


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## legallyflying (Feb 3, 2011)

Well you can always stage the harvest and just chop the ones that are ready. Exciting times nonetheless


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## legallyflying (Feb 3, 2011)

Beginning of week four; new Rez. Nutes per gallon
5 ml calmag
5ml liquid karma
5ml pro grow
7.5ml pro bloom
5ml biobizz bio-bloom 
7ml of locally made "biotic stimulant" aka blackstrap and some other stuff that makes it smell like ass

PPM = 1580 ph= 5.6 

Looking forward to giving them a heavier dose of food and also a little more nitrogen


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## jelmo44 (Feb 3, 2011)

You setup is pretty bad ass by the way

props


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## nugbuckets (Feb 3, 2011)

hey Legal, when do you believe is the optimal time to prune out the under story in a scrog? Thinking flowering hormones and such....thanks...Nugs


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## jelmo44 (Feb 4, 2011)

pics? 
i dont know what else to write but it let me post this unless i write more


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## legallyflying (Feb 4, 2011)

nugbuckets said:


> hey Legal, when do you believe is the optimal time to prune out the under story in a scrog? Thinking flowering hormones and such....thanks...Nugs


I typically hack quite a bit away about a week before the flip. Then snip many of the new growing shoots in the first two weeks of flower.


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## nugbuckets (Feb 4, 2011)

Thanks bro....not to hijack, but i was hoping to run this by you, to see what you think....i am really impressed with your work, and have become another in the quest for 1g/watt. don't hesitate to tell me to get the fuck out yo thread if you feel so inclined....i don't scrog because i use soil in 5 gal. buckets, in a 3 by 6 foot space....but i am trying to maximize my yield without having to go liquid. plus i love organic herb. anyways i have two 400 horties, and just sacked up and bought some real reflectors that should be perfect in my space. i seriously super-cropped my six clones, and pruned out the under-schwap..they have been in veg for about 6 weeks. they are about to go into their 5 gal from 2 gal. my main goal is to establish the most even canopy i can muster, and hope super-cropping is the ticket. so 800 watts...800 grams in organic dirt is my goal. anyways...any suggestions or constructive critisism would be appreciated......again....love your work, and follow this tread religiously...
peace, nugs


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## AudiA6Driver (Feb 4, 2011)

Love this thread, My first grow was a CFL SCROG 1 plant, 1.5 gal of soil, With a 1'x2' screen with a custom crazy light thing i made to hold the 420-ish ACTUAL watts of CFL's, i got 3 oz's of all perfect sized nugs, one day im going back to a scrog, the gpw is so much easier to get to


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## legallyflying (Feb 4, 2011)

nugbuckets said:


> Thanks bro....not to hijack, but i was hoping to run this by you, to see what you think....i am really impressed with your work, and have become another in the quest for 1g/watt. don't hesitate to tell me to get the fuck out yo thread if you feel so inclined....i don't scrog because i use soil in 5 gal. buckets, in a 3 by 6 foot space...


Get the fuck out of my thread dirt humper.


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## AudiA6Driver (Feb 4, 2011)

No dirt love here........ Haha


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## legallyflying (Feb 4, 2011)

LOL, Thanks for taking it in spirit. Thought I would actually get SOME work done at the office for a little bit. Sounds like you are on the right track with some good reflectors. I would absolutely make sure your running biologicals and enzymes in soil. Huge benefits. MY only other advise would be to just skip the smaller size pot and go right to the bigger pot. The notion that a pot is "too big" for a plant is an old wives tale. (the wive being a stupid fuck who didn't know anything about plants). Plants are looking nice and squat though, should be a good yielder.


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## nugbuckets (Feb 4, 2011)

thanks bro......right now i am using root rally by age old organics...it has mike spores and a shit pile of bennies. what would you recommend for enzymes? Nugs


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## legallyflying (Feb 4, 2011)

Hygrozyme seems to be the industry favorite by a long shot. Or, you could buy sensiyme from AN. It has ALL the enzymes in the entire fucking world and all the best growers use it. The advantage of sensizyme is that it is 150% times more expensive AND it is twice as dilute as hygrozyme so you have to use twice as much. 

I have a bottle of hygrozyme on the shelf but have'nt used it yet. For us hydroguys its basically a cleaning solution for the roots of previous runs. I'm sure it provides fabulous results if added every rez change, but I put it in the "not neccessary" category.


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## Icky (Feb 4, 2011)

Hey legal buddy I swear I remember reading in one of your posts that you're using Lumatek ballasts.. but now all I can find is a post saying digital ballasts.. are you using Lumateks?

And have you had any issues?

Bout to go fork out $1500 on lights but wanna make sure nobody's having dramas.. I read some posts from years ago about interference with enviro controllers but there's info saying they were 'fixing' the issue back in '08.. I assume it's done now..

Anyway let me know what kinda lights you using, if it's not too much drama 

Cheers buddy lookin' forward to more pics



EDIT: +repped and subbed by the way, been well helpful cheers


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## legallyflying (Feb 4, 2011)

Yo Icky. Yeah lumateks. Got 3 of them and one knock off chinease digital I got for $20. Truth be told I think that all the NEWER digitals (like within the past year) are all about the same. I choose lumatek cause they look cool and they have a great warranty. (I like the super lumen feature as well and YES there is a difference).

Cheers,
LF


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## Junya951 (Feb 4, 2011)

Icky said:


> Hey legal buddy I swear I remember reading in one of your posts that you're using Lumatek ballasts.. but now all I can find is a post saying digital ballasts.. are you using Lumateks?
> 
> And have you had any issues?
> 
> ...


This is just my 2 cents but ive been reading that sunpulse it the way to go as far as bulbs, because they are the only ones "fully compatable" with digital ballasts meaning that other bulbs will die a lot quicker. Im hearing that most people that run digital ballast are finding that their bulb life is dramatically reduced vs old school coil ballasts. Just some info since your gonna drop that much cash,


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## JimBro (Feb 4, 2011)

Something seems to be missing from this thread over the past couple days, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Hmmm. Legal's cheekiness...check. Questions for the master...present. I know! Froggy, where the fuck are ya? I hope Legal's last bud pron pics didn't scare ya away. Or maybe it's cuz we all laughed at your inadequate root, Bret Favre? Whatever the case, come on back! We can't have a proper scrog off without you. Else it'll just be Legal playing with himself. And we all know that doesn't happen until week 7 or 8 of flower.


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## legallyflying (Feb 4, 2011)

I think frogster is trying to find the perfect color of pipe cleaner so he can rig up something that looks like plant roots. I say fuck it, plant roots are over rated. In regards to the whole digital "bulb problem" is not that big of a problem and it's actually the bulb manufactures who need to address the isse. Many have already. I have been using ushious with little reduction in lux. I think those that bring up concerns about digi and vow allegiance to magnetic ballasts are living in the past. Digi ballasts are superior in every single fucking way. Every single way!! 


Anywho, if your not a fucking retard and can read words that are intermixed with numbers, you should read the following post that was in a thread about the lumatek/ hortilux issue:
_

My name is Jason and I am the founder of Lumatek Electronic ballasts. We try to stay away from these forums but I think this is important. Some customers are currently experiencing problems when using some 600 watt lamps. I do want to point out that the Hortilux Solarmax Grolux issue applies to ALL brand of electronic ballasts.

The lumatek ballast is a true Eballast. It has a micro processor cpu. This cpu allows the ballast to make adjustments according to the lamp that is being used. A eballast can compensate for degrading bulbs and slight power fluctuations. It can also sense the exact specifications of the lamps it is using. the Lumatek ballast is up to 27% brighter than a core and coil ballast. We do have one problem with this technology the cpu can not detect the lamp until AFTER the initial ignition. Once the bulb is lit the ballast can then take over and drive the bulb to its exact specifications. Industry specifications for a 600 watt hps lamp call for a 4000volt ignition pulse. This is what Lumatek and all other digital ballast use for a starting voltage. Hortilux ignition used to be 2000-3000 volts even though this is less then the ignition pulse of the Lumatek we did not experience any problems with the Hortilux I have lots of customers with Hortilux lamps that are over a year old However about 6 months ago we started to notice an increase in Hortilux failures. We also noticed that the font of the text printed at the base of the bulb had changed. When we tested this lamp we found that the ignition range was lowered to 1500 volts. These new Hortilux lamps are different then the ones we originally designed the ballast with and have a higher frailer rate. The problems that customers are having are NOT a ballast problem they are a bulb problem the Hortilux 600 watt is not designed to industry specifications regarding ignition pulse. Furthermore it is also manufactured with a special gas in the arc tube that no other lamp maker in the world uses. The Hortilux lamp design is unique. We are currently adapting our ballast for this bulb it may require a switch to lower the ignition pulse for Hortilux.
Solarmax and Growlux lamps are the opposite problem these lamps require a 5000-6000 volt ignition pulse Again the standard ignition for a 600 is 4000 volts. The Lumtek ballast can light these bulbs with the 4K pulse for a while however over time the lamps degrade and they require more and more voltage to start after a few months the bulbs will not ignite in any digital ballast._

If for some reason you still think mag ballasts are not conpletely outdated and gay, check out this thread...

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f6/ushio-hilux-gro-metal-halide-mh-lamp-w-lumatek-digital-ballast-9252/


Mag ballasts cost MORE MONEY to run and give lower performance. Sign me up!!


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## frogster (Feb 4, 2011)

Been out of town all week.... Son kept the girls alive... Not too bad,, the Supercropped girls are looking really nice... Maybe I shouldn't have scrogged the Sour Diesels... Been running 450ppm all week,, talking about 4gal h20 a day... dropped the control box to get the most water off the roots... and put back in the rez. heater... will do a rez change in the a.m,,, (with the hose this time!!) heres a few pics... Last pics for Audiea6... my litttle dirt iceream clone that I didnt want to throw away... shes looking like a winner!


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## Icky (Feb 4, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Yo Icky. Yeah lumateks. Got 3 of them and one knock off chinease digital I got for $20. Truth be told I think that all the NEWER digitals (like within the past year) are all about the same. I choose lumatek cause they look cool and they have a great warranty. (I like the super lumen feature as well and YES there is a difference).
> 
> Cheers,
> LF


Cheers buddy this sets my mind at ease a bit. Down to the local hydro shop on Monday for some Lumateks then!


Thanks for the junya, I don't have access to that kind of bulb but as far as I can see as long as the ignition voltage is in the right zone it's all good.

RF interference is the thing I was most worried about but found some info related to the thing legallyflying posted and it looks like Lumateks, if not all modern digis, are a-okay in that respect.

Lookin' better than one might have thought frogster nice one!!


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## frogster (Feb 4, 2011)

And Im pretty sure I read in section 9 subsection E.. "any noob growers in a scrog off are entitled of a handicap of at least 20%, more so if the competitions plants look a helluvalot better." see no worries.... Im also allowed all of my leaves, stem,root and any media that is sticking to the roots (damn, not getting much help there) and left over nutrients.. included in the final weight...


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## legallyflying (Feb 5, 2011)

Well shit man, you get 2 grams per watt then.  

Plants are looking good though. How far above the screen do you think they are? 

My plants are taking nutes in like crack whores! Went to bed way late last night with Rez completely full and 1680 ppm. Came home from work after two floods and they drank about 4-5 gallons and the ppm was 1510 without topping off! Drooped to around 1420 when topped off.


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## nugbuckets (Feb 5, 2011)

20% handicap! what a disappointment.....


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## xivex (Feb 5, 2011)

From someone with a programming background who runs lumateks, the thing that people forget is that these lumatek digi ballasts are updated all the time. They put out new hardware revs all the time or revs with os updates. These updates are all releases designed by the manufacturer to address these specific manufacturer incompatibilities. Also, remember that the lumateks are mini computers. They can simply recode their ignition voltage and make any needed hardware changes and bam the lumatek hortilux issue is no longer an issue. 

In this day and age if they try a litttle, these changesshould not be that hard to make. In fact, they might have made them already. If your buying digi ballasts, make sure you get thenewest ones straight from the manufacturer and not some old release version thats sat on the grow shop shelf for the last 12 months. 

My $0.02...

Ps i havent had any problems withhortilux lamps in my lumateks yet. But im not running 600s either which as LF's post shows, are completely non standard in terms of electrical design and engineering.

I researched this issue a lot and have found this info alread, but if you pay close attention it DOES seem to be mostly limited to older revs and specifically 600w lamps.


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## frogster (Feb 5, 2011)

Above the screen..lol ,, they are all over the place... uneven as all fuck... when I put the screen in some plants were touching , while others were still 6-8" away... but on a decent note,,most of the screen is filled in,even if they are small.. I have some sections that are 12" tall..... I think I figured out the burn on the leaves.... I used a "permethrin" synthetic fogger instead of a "pyrethrum" natural one... pretty sure this burned the fuck out of them at the high concentration.. (12%) and was enough to treat 7000sqft...So, probably 10times overkill... Switching to a cinn. oil/clove oil mix, and using it weekly as preventative... The flowering is filling in nicely between the nodes... looks awesome.. starting to get smelly in there.. The blueberry smells like I could eat it,,, And I prob. will!


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## frogster (Feb 5, 2011)

Shit nugbuckets... I see all the mistakes I made from the beginning and see how its effecting my grow now... piss poor roots... nutrient fuckups..etc.... ...I can sure see my next grow being better,, Some noobs get exteremly lucky and produce really well the first grow.. others have to do it the hard way and possibly kill the entire grow.... My plants are suffering from things that happened months ago...(mostly due to poor roots). so, at this point if I dont fry them and get them through to harvest I will be happy and should produce a few lbs... I still think watt per watt I will do ok against Legals grow.... I have 2000watts in the room total 1000w over the scrog, Legal has 1800watts(co2,5gal buckets for roots etc, etc) over his scrog.... so ... scrog alone I was doomed from the beginning.... but, gram per watt, I still feel confidant that I will exceed his weight... (thats my best try to smack talk right now...difficult to do right now )


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## cruzer101 (Feb 5, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Well shit man, you get 2 grams per watt then.
> 
> My plants are taking nutes in like crack whores! Went to bed way late last night with Rez completely full and 1680 ppm. Came home from work after two floods and they drank about 4-5 gallons and the ppm was 1510 without topping off! Drooped to around 1420 when topped off.


Dam them bitches are going to town alright, just wondered why you don't you add nutes back up to 1600 if they are doing so well?


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## legallyflying (Feb 6, 2011)

cruzer101 said:


> Dam them bitches are going to town alright, just wondered why you don't you add nutes back up to 1600 if they are doing so well?


That is an excellent question and here is my rational. 1680 is pretty damn salty. My last run I got up to 1800 and had problems. The other issue is that nutrient burn doesn't just show up overnight and once you get there, you kind of fucked yourself. So I punched the gas and they SEEMED to do alright at top speed. Does that mean I should just keep the pedal to the metal and assume they can endure it? I thought that the wise answer was no. What if one day at that high of salinity was fine but three days would cause problems? I figure the medium is only getting saltier with time. 

Higher concentrations mean that more nutes are AVAILABLE to them. It doesn't mean that they will uptake faster. In fact, it is easier for plants to absorb more when the gradient between roots/nute salinity is greater. 

I also dont know WHAT part of my solution was absorbed. Maybe it was the sugar parts? (sure as fuck bubbled up like a bathtub). Maybe the organic bio-bizz bloom isn't playing nice with the botanicare nutes and is dropping out of solution? There is no way of actually knowing and if I go adding new stuff in.... Well you see where I'm going. And if you don't, well, this probably isn't the first time that someone accused you of being stupid. I will add some back when it gets in the 1200 and my ph stops swinging so much. Goes from 5.6 to 6.1 in one day. My assumption is that this may be that perhaps one mineral in particular is really being absorbed but this is just a hunch and not really based on solid knowledge. 

So that is the long answer. 

The short answer... To be safe. 


Frogster, your putting an awful lot of faith in that 1800 denominator. (Mr. No roots)


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## legallyflying (Feb 6, 2011)

Oh yeah. Two of my plants have TMV.   

I'm going to send my clone source a gift box for that one. Just saving up a huge shit to put in there


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## nugbuckets (Feb 6, 2011)

yo legal, one more question......in in your opinion, at what stage do plants need and benefit the most from CO2? Thanks, Nugs...


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## legallyflying (Feb 6, 2011)

In flower. Moderate in the first couple weeks. Heavy in 3-6, tapering off to just above ambient in the last two


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## cruzer101 (Feb 6, 2011)

Gotcha legal, I had a feeling you were doing it to be safe. Thanks for your theory though. Makes perfect sense. I agree that's pretty dam salty, its like the girls put away the wine and got out the hard stuff. 
Hell, I run my hydro at about half that.

Suppose you did see some burnt edges at 1500 ppm and your pH was somewhat stable, my initial thought is to flush but do you use something like Clearex? If so how long do you run it and at what strength would you start your nutes back at?

I used it at the end of a grow to flush with but I haven't used it during a grow.


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## legallyflying (Feb 6, 2011)

I would probably just run a really watered down solution for a couple days and watch the numbers to see if they climbed. I remember reading somewhere that dramatically lowering the salts can really stress the plants. I could see that happening but I'm not sure of the mechanism; it's on the "to research list" before I do the final flush of this harvest. I did a mid flower flush with tap last cycle and the plants didn't catch on fire or anything but who knows. 

I do know that in nature; aka. Growing in that brown stuff, it's impossible to change the ion concentration so drastically due to the buffering of the...what is that shit called? Dirt, yeah of the dirt


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## JimBro (Feb 6, 2011)

I was reading a thread on here the other day about not flushing at the end of the harvest at all. People claimed that the smoke was still clean and they gained extra size in the last week or two. What's your take on that, Legal and everybody?


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## frogster (Feb 6, 2011)

Read everywhere about not flushing.... Also read cure correctly is more important than flushing.... Im not flushing as I want to reveg... Figure I may grow some roots on my plants...lol and I will add it into my final weight for the scroggoff totals...


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## nugbuckets (Feb 6, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> In flower. Moderate in the first couple weeks. Heavy in 3-6, tapering off to just above ambient in the last two


thanks bro...appreciated..


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## legallyflying (Feb 6, 2011)

Ok listen up Floggy. Been fairly leniant out of pitty and all but, most weight from 12 plants gets the tittle. Not sure what that tittle is...but we can figure that out latter  

But seriously, why would you reveg plants that have been getting beat up? Get some clones or pop some seeds, ahora.


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## frogster (Feb 6, 2011)

This buds for you... Damn the blueberry are smelling good... And of course the diesels are stinking ....Rules? Rules? 12plants swelve plants... I dont give a crap.... I have 2000watts and Im using them all...lol.. you know that 12 plants under 1800watts with 5gallon pots and and co2 would wipe me out if I was to only use my 15 plants under 1000watts with 2gallon pots and no co2..... what are you scared? The only way I will even be close to your yield is to out gram you per watt/cost. And these babies are looking better! Lets hear from the judges!


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## frogster (Feb 6, 2011)

So, I concede.. your 12 plants will far out weigh 12 plants in my scrog thats obvious by now...... so, I created a new category that you can beat me in.. gram per watt.. Trying to keep you challenged!!! ... I want to reveg for certain reasons... I plan on taking two of the better plants on each side and grow trees with them,,, I want to veg out the scrog side with two plants.. making each plant take up a 4x4 area, I plan on putting them in larger containers and letting them get tree trunks... Im lst'ing&Scropping the crap out of the other on the other side.(dont know how many yet).. but plans change...


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## nugbuckets (Feb 7, 2011)

nice recovery frog.......nugs


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## legallyflying (Feb 7, 2011)

Man, the endless skies take Fa-ever to root! Three weeks before they are ready to transfer. Looks like I'm going to end up vegging in my flower room next run . Bummer for sure


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## xivex (Feb 7, 2011)

OK Guys, here's my thoughts...

1) No surprise Frog concedes.. 

2) Frog's plants do indeed look better, and while not on par with LF's, are still fucking nice! 

*3) Loser of the overall competition should have to blow the winner *


X


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## legallyflying (Feb 7, 2011)

Not so sure about #3. How about loser has to masturbate with non-dominant hand for a month?


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## legallyflying (Feb 7, 2011)

I have an idea since pictures of buds at this point are somewhat boring.. Lets see a picture of your biggest stalks with a lighter next to them.. 

THat is probably one of the better gauges of impending yield at this point.


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## frogster (Feb 7, 2011)

Thats no good.. Im ambidextrous and I require two hands anyways...  ...


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## Icky (Feb 7, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Not so sure about #3. How about loser has to masturbate with non-dominant hand for a month?


True story, not a bad way to build up your dexterity.. plus its the one time there's nobody around to laugh at you for being so un-coordinated...


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## xivex (Feb 7, 2011)

None of this is as good as when you sit on your arm to make it fall asleep and then rub one out using that hand. I call it "The Stranger" because it feels like someone else is jacking you off!


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## legallyflying (Feb 7, 2011)

xivex said:


> None of this is as good as when you sit on your arm to make it fall asleep and then rub one out using that hand. I call it "The Stranger" because it feels like someone else is jacking you off!


LMAO.. twisted for sure! I separated my shoulder (dominant side) in a downhill mountain bike race. I was in a painful sling for like two months and way drugged up on prescription pain meds and unable to work. You can only watch soo much daytime tv before you decide its time to rub one out. 

It was like going into battle, it took fucking forever and at some point I remember thinking, "I'm not going to fucking quit till I fill this tissue or I de-glove myself for trying". It was like dating an 8-year old.


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## xivex (Feb 7, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> LMAO.. twisted for sure! I separated my shoulder (dominant side) in a downhill mountain bike race. I was in a painful sling for like two months and way drugged up on prescription pain meds and unable to work. You can only watch soo much daytime tv before you decide its time to rub one out.
> 
> It was like going into battle, it took fucking forever and at some point I remember thinking, "I'm not going to fucking quit till I fill this tissue or I de-glove myself for trying". It was like dating an 8-year old.


Lol. Haha! .


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## Icky (Feb 7, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> LMAO.. twisted for sure! I separated my shoulder (dominant side) in a downhill mountain bike race. I was in a painful sling for like two months and way drugged up on prescription pain meds and unable to work. You can only watch soo much daytime tv before you decide its time to rub one out.
> 
> It was like going into battle, it took fucking forever and at some point I remember thinking, "I'm not going to fucking quit till I fill this tissue or I de-glove myself for trying". It was like dating an 8-year old.


This comment made me lol for real hahaha


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## frogster (Feb 7, 2011)

Funny as hell ... "The stranger"."de-glove myself" This thread has gone so far off track.. lol.. .So, what the hell,, . About the only thing I can truly boast about is being part of an Elite fetish club.... You all know about the Mile High Club.... I believe I am the originator of the 100+ mile per hour Club.... NO, No! Not doing it while driving over 100mph,,, hell ,, did that as a teenager.... I use to work in the disaster industry ,, I was the fool with his crew going into a Hurricane as everyone else is running away... So, One trip the wife decided to go (Hurricane Ike, Penis-acola)... well, we were set up early, bored . waiting for the destruction... By the beach.. Winds were about a constant 100mph , gusting to over 125+... and we decided to do it on the beach.... yep... 125mph gust of wind yanking on the boys was quiet the experience ..... I highly recommend it, ONCE! No , hell, I would do it again.. Welcome to the thread Icky. Just noticed the " stranger " riu status ... lol.. "Icky stranger" This will stick with you for sometime...


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## Danielsgb (Feb 7, 2011)

You guys are hilarious.
Daniels


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## legallyflying (Feb 7, 2011)

Ok no pics tonight. Thought I would relax in the grow room. Maybe trim
A little. Get some light meter readings, maybe clean the floor. Then came the dreaded "the washer won't drain". What? It says error
20?. Ill call somebody tomorrow.
Fuck that, I'll fix it. 
No, I'll call somebody. 
The washer repair guy doesn't possess some secret rocket science training..I can probably fix it. 
You guys ever move around a hIgh efficiency washer full of water on a 3' high pedestal? Not fun 
So I'm struggling with this bastard and he is fucking standing there chanting "just call someone" "why don't u just call someone "
So of course I cut my finger on the metal flange and give her the look of fucking death...she wisely leaves 
20 minutes later I had the fucker fixed. I was ready to be all pissy thinking that the pump screen was full of pubic hair or some shit...but low and behold, there was a piece of wire like the kind i use for holding big stems down stuck in the impeller  

I am thankfull every day that I decided to get married and have kids. It just creates so much free fucking time.


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## MediMaryUser (Feb 7, 2011)

bookmardk
bookmarkuhhhmhummm


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## nugbuckets (Feb 8, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Not so sure about #3. How about loser has to masturbate with non-dominant hand for a month?


bro, i tried that once, and after a week, i liked it so much i stuck with it! now i can do all kinds of shit with my left hand....ambidexterity! i love it!


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## frogster (Feb 8, 2011)

Girls still only taking 1-2 gallons in 24hrs... I will look at the roots tonight .. Thinking of nixing the beneficial tea program ... but dont want to use h202.... perhaps Fatmans bleach regiment...


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## nugbuckets (Feb 8, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Ok no pics tonight. Thought I would relax in the grow room. Maybe trim
> A little. Get some light meter readings, maybe clean the floor. Then came the dreaded "the washer won't drain". What? It says error
> 20?. Ill call somebody tomorrow.
> Fuck that, I'll fix it.
> ...


dude, that JUST happened to me, but my whole laundry room flooded! FUCK! and what did i find.....my daughters bobbie pin in the impeller.....i was so pissed......kids...

you think you have a lot of time to watch the grass grow.....i am a dirt grower!...sigh...


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## nugbuckets (Feb 8, 2011)

hey fellas...this is my new scrog-less scrog, with my new lights.......since your bored and all.


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## legallyflying (Feb 8, 2011)

nugbuckets said:


> hey fellas...this is my new scrog-less scrog, with my new lights.......since your bored and all.


What's that stuff in the buckets? Looks weird


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 8, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> What's that stuff in the buckets? Looks weird


 Looks messy.


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## legallyflying (Feb 8, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Looks messy.


It looks like the stuff in my yard. That shit gets everywhere and there is all kinds of bugs and crap in it. Is that the secret mystical "flavor" ingredient I keep hearing about. Apparantly some people smoke weed for the "taste" while others actually smoke it to get high as fuck.


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## the cloner (Feb 9, 2011)

think that stuff is called dirt or sumfin eeeeeeeeeyyyyyyy.
them dirt farmer get every were.
like cockroaches you get rid of 1 and get 2 more for your trouble lol.


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## Allister (Feb 9, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Let the games and smack talk begin


Hey legally, gettin a little touchy after issuing the call for the smack talk to begin aren't ya? 
Sorry man, couldn't help but jump in! Looks like a fun thread, I am subbed to watch this one go down!


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## nugbuckets (Feb 9, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> It looks like the stuff in my yard. That shit gets everywhere and there is all kinds of bugs and crap in it. Is that the secret mystical "flavor" ingredient I keep hearing about. Apparantly some people smoke weed for the "taste" while others actually smoke it to get high as fuck.


it is used kitty litter, and it IS the mystical ingredient.....all organic baby!....don't tell anybody....


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## frogster (Feb 9, 2011)

Smack talk for him comes easy, he came up with the "rules" in his first post... Let him have his 80% more light, 150% more root space , 15% more screen to beat out the noob...... Its a Dominate thing for him... I cant imagine what he does&how he talks to his ladies when he's in the growroom with the door locked... tying them down in a hidden converted garage that is sealed and light proof, forcing C02 &depriving them of oxygen for heightened arousal, flooding them with his solution several times a day and wont even begin to let any males even get close to them. Sustaining several hand injury's over the last several months and always blaming some "other" cause .... I believe he's a closet masochist!


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## frogster (Feb 9, 2011)

I saw a setup where a guy had a fishtank feeding his hydro.... seriously... the whole system was connected.... thats really pushing the all organic button to the limits.. I will try to get a pic...


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## xivex (Feb 9, 2011)

frogster said:


> I saw a setup where a guy had a fishtank feeding his hydro.... seriously... the whole system was connected.... thats really pushing the all organic button to the limits.. I will try to get a pic...


Its called aquaponics. Using fish habitats to fertilize plant habitats and vice versa. Max yield and urbangarden mags have done articles on it. Its also used to teach hydro principles without calling it hydroponics and having all the negative connotations that non medical states have with the term hydroponics. Google it and im sure you can find tons of info


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## the cloner (Feb 9, 2011)

frogster said:


> I saw a setup where a guy had a fishtank feeding his hydro.... seriously... the whole system was connected.... thats really pushing the all organic button to the limits.. I will try to get a pic...


i have seen this also alot on youtube.
the fact fish piss in the water we drink is enuf for me not to drink it.
but to smoke fish shit thats takin the piss lol


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## Allister (Feb 9, 2011)

Allister said:


> Hey legally, gettin a little touchy after issuing the call for the smack talk to begin aren't ya?
> Sorry man, couldn't help but jump in! Looks like a fun thread, I am subbed to watch this one go down!


Ok, gotta come clean... I posted this after reading the first page... I didn't realize that there were 9 pages of it... (I have my pages set to 40 posts instead of 10). So I kinda spoke without knowing the whole story... Finished it all now and I still have to say that it is one fun thread.


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## frogster (Feb 9, 2011)

Wow,, Just off the phone with Humbolds nute rep... Guy talked for an hour, I couldnt get him off the phone.. really helped out with alot of info on beneficial bacteria (teas) in hydroponics... basically , dont use them!!! One of the products I have been adding to my rez has been equilibrium.. suggested by my hydro store guy,, He is completely wrong accourding to Humboldts! Equalibrium is for soil medium.. sea cal is for hydro... So, taking it back today and swapping out... Also found out that h202 and bleach are fine with the master a&b nutrient line.. so, I will be implementing that into my schedule... I pulled up a plant this a.m and looked at the roots,,, whats all the fuzzy white stuff growing on them now?? And they are taking more water and nutes! Damn , I will have to feed them more.... Wait, whats that sound? Yes, I hear the Rocky theme.. These babies are making a comeback!!


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## legallyflying (Feb 9, 2011)

frogster said:


> . I pulled up a plant this a.m and looked at the roots,,, whats all the fuzzy white stuff growing on them now?? And they are taking more water and nutes! Damn , I will have to feed them more.... Wait, whats that sound? Yes, I hear the Rocky theme.. These babies are making a comeback!!


Weird, when I read this I heard a different song, didn't really sound like the rocky theme.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM39yIKoSo4


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## nugbuckets (Feb 9, 2011)

the cloner said:


> i have seen this also alot on youtube.
> the fact fish piss in the water we drink is enuf for me not to drink it.
> but to smoke fish shit thats takin the piss lol


fish piss?! shit thats nothin', i use cat shit!


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## nugbuckets (Feb 9, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> It looks like the stuff in my yard. That shit gets everywhere and there is all kinds of bugs and crap in it. Is that the secret mystical "flavor" ingredient I keep hearing about. Apparantly some people smoke weed for the "taste" while others actually smoke it to get high as fuck.


yeah, your right man, what i need to do is get rid of this messy shit, and pic me up some toxic chemicals to grow my meds......after all, my buds are so fucking tiny....it's embarrassing really....... i know if i invest another grand or so on chemicals and equipment, and meters, and how-to manuals, and more chemicals.....i can finally grow some dank.


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## nugbuckets (Feb 9, 2011)

nugbuckets said:


> yeah, your right man, what i need to do is get rid of this messy shit, and pic me up some toxic chemicals to grow my meds......after all, my buds are so fucking tiny....it's embarrassing really....... i know if i invest another grand or so on chemicals and equipment, and meters, and how-to manuals, and more chemicals.....i can finally grow some dank.


p.s....that would be the quart bottle.


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## frogster (Feb 9, 2011)

Thats funny Legal.... You must be familiar with that song to be able to post it.... I found a video that represents you well,, Im sure you sit in your grow room similar To "Pyle" here , the similarity is striking : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_Xek7IQhlw&feature=player_embedded#at=51


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## legallyflying (Feb 9, 2011)

ok, now that I have vented after a hard day of work. Thought I would post a video of my set-up. If you can get past the boring light moving back and forth you get to some ""fly bys" of some buds. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEqYXMlq-hI


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## xivex (Feb 9, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> ok, now that I have vented after a hard day of work. Thought I would post a video of my set-up. If you can get past the boring light moving back and forth you get to some ""fly bys" of some buds.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEqYXMlq-hI


Nice video, one question though...wtf is up with those you tube comments?


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## legallyflying (Feb 9, 2011)

xivex said:


> Nice video, one question though...wtf is up with those you tube comments?


LMAO. I know, I got an e-mail that there was a comment and I was kind of excited so I zoomed over there.. "frog is going to own you" .. what, hey, who the.....oh.


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## xivex (Feb 9, 2011)

Hahaha. Couldnt resist bro... In all seriousness, they are looking gorgeous. Your setup looks perfected and really dialed in. I expect a large ass yield this cycle.


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## legallyflying (Feb 9, 2011)

Only time can tell. Hard to judge really. The last crop was vegged longer but this time I have more plants and will not suffer any nutrient burn or what not so I'm hoping. Hoping for 3.5 pounds


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## frogster (Feb 9, 2011)

Ok Buttnuget,,, I'm with legal on this one... I have never understood the mindset of "organic" growers (or lack of).... regardless of where the essential elements come from, the plants require them... they dont know the difference between bat shit and a bottle. And im venturing to guess that bat shit cost a helluvalot more than "toxic" chemicals.... I would go out on a limb and say that organic based nutes that rely on feces waste from animals would have many a carcinogenic compound considering they are eating and shitting who knows what out their ass... The "toxic" nutrients as nug calls them have exactly whats on the labels, no extra little unknown surprises.... I havnt even started to bring up all the bad bacteria and fungus that a soil grow with fantastic ORGANIC nutes can grow, and possibly make you sick or kill you!..


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## nugbuckets (Feb 9, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Its ignorant posts like this that really piss me off. Yeah, all hydro uses tons of toxic chemicals. I got news for you, EVERYTHING IN THE FUCKING WORLD IS COMPOSED OF CHEMICALS. Just cause "its organic man" doesn't mean that its "healthy or better" or any of that uneducated hippy bullshit. I know I know, there are some big words on the back of my botanicare products, but its funny that even though they are not ALL "organic" by strict definition (derived form living organism), its funny that they ALL are listed by OMRI as approved for use crops that are to be sold as organic. Whats kind of funny though is that you don't want to get all kind of expensive chemicals...and low and behold, you have a quart of AN big bud in your picture. LMAO.
> 
> now go eat 4 spoons of bat guana and tell me how "toxic" your dirt is.


so much for "good old fashioned smack".......geez
and there is no AN in bio-bud bro, plus it was a free sample bottle.....good luck with your grows fellas.


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## frogster (Feb 10, 2011)

Dont let Legals rants get to you.. I have created several awards for this thread... Several I know who will win already..1st place: Most easily riled up and offensive over goofy things (Legal) ......... 1st place: Most creative smack talker: Me) 1st place grams per watt (me) 1st place most weight 12 plants (Legal) ............. I have a list of other categories, I will post them and let the viewers vote at the end.... I enjoyed your post, so get creative and post something if you care... Thx... ...


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## Danielsgb (Feb 10, 2011)

How about most blasphemous.
Daniels


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## JimBro (Feb 10, 2011)

I don't find those pictures troubling so much as the fact you own the plates or whatever in the first place. No offense, but wtf?


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## Danielsgb (Feb 10, 2011)

JimBro said:


> I don't find those pictures troubling so much as the fact you own the plates or whatever in the first place. No offense, but wtf?


Found it in a box of stuff to take to the Rescue Mission. I snapped those then I donated it.


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## JimBro (Feb 10, 2011)

Sure. We believe ya, Daniel.......

But, it's not really blasphemy...except for maybe the one where you replaced baby Jesus with a bud...but it's a well known fact that Jesus was a grower. And God is obviously a stoner, which would explain my existence.


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## Danielsgb (Feb 10, 2011)

JimBro said:


> Sure. We believe ya, Daniel.......
> 
> But, it's not really blasphemy...except for maybe the one where you replaced baby Jesus with a bud...but it's a well known fact that Jesus was a grower. And God is obviously a stoner, which would explain my existence.


Oh, I agree with you as far as that goes. Yet people aren't logical. E-mail one of those to a church and see if they see blasphemy in the others beside that one you refer to.


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## JimBro (Feb 10, 2011)

ha...yeah, you got a point there my friend


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## legallyflying (Feb 10, 2011)

I thought Jesus was a black woman?


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## JimBro (Feb 10, 2011)

No legal, you're thinking of God. Franco Harris says it puts a whole new twist on the immaculate reception.


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## xivex (Feb 10, 2011)

JimBro said:


> I don't find those pictures troubling so much as the fact you own the plates or whatever in the first place. No offense, but wtf?


Daniels has the jesus collection plates right next to his 18k gold limited edition Robert E Lee commerative plate set of the battles of the civil war. He ordered the complete collection from time life books way back in 1986. 

Hehe..

X


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## Danielsgb (Feb 10, 2011)

xivex said:


> Daniels has the Jesus collection plates right next to his 18k gold limited edition Robert E Lee commemorative plate set of the battles of the civil war. He ordered the complete collection from time life books way back in 1986.
> 
> Hehe..
> 
> X


Making fun of my 10th Birthday Present, huh. Harsh *X,* Harsh.


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## JimBro (Feb 10, 2011)

xivex said:


> Daniels has the jesus collection plates right next to his 18k gold limited edition Robert E Lee commerative plate set of the battles of the civil war. He ordered the complete collection from time life books way back in 1986.


slow your roll there X. Those Robert E Lee plates are a godamned treasure. Oh wait, civil war? Nevermind. I thought you were disin the Dukes of Hazard collection.


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## legallyflying (Feb 10, 2011)

Ok now we officially need pictures of plants. Jimbro, do actually have any plants?


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## JimBro (Feb 10, 2011)

Good question, Legal. I have two little bitty plants that just popped up about a week ago. I have pics in my journal (link in sig) if you really want to see 'em, but they aren't worth posting. You aren't mad at my YouTube comment? I was just a goofin'.


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## legallyflying (Feb 10, 2011)

ohh, they are worth posting. They look fucking DANK!! I see a pound each dude!

View attachment 1434554

Seriously though, I am terrible at popping seeds and I have a couple hundred dollars worth on the way


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## JimBro (Feb 10, 2011)

A pound? C'mon, man. I got 250 watts of pure fuckin' fire lighting those puppies up. I'm betting more like a pound and a gram or so.

No shit. You ordered seeds?? Next thing you know, you'll be poppin' 'em in dirt.


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## legallyflying (Feb 10, 2011)

Ohh, I'm definitely going the dirt route now. Mostly because I'm soo frightened of all those expensive bottles full of nasty chemicals. What is in those things!! I think its old radioactive waste that has just been repackaged. 

But yeah, mother go in dirt....cause I'm the type of guy that REALLY appreciates a dirty mother.


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## nugbuckets (Feb 11, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Ohh, I'm definitely going the dirt route now. Mostly because I'm soo frightened of all those expensive bottles full of nasty chemicals. What is in those things!! I think its old radioactive waste that has just been repackaged.
> 
> But yeah, mother go in dirt....cause I'm the type of guy that REALLY appreciates a dirty mother.


i'm still waiting for an apology.........


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## legallyflying (Feb 11, 2011)

Lol. Sorry. I grow mothers in soil to slow down growth rates plus it's just easier


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## legallyflying (Feb 11, 2011)

Beginning of week 5 Rez change. I also flushed but resulting ppm were low (125) so probably didnt need to. 
All quantities per gallon
5 ml liquid karma 
5 ml cal mag
10 ml botanicare pro blend soil bloom
5 ml BC PB hydro bloom
10 ml sugary bio goop
Ph 5.5
Ppm 1480


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## frogster (Feb 11, 2011)

Legal, what are you using to keep nastys away? I went the bleach route a few days ago and the roots are growing great.... doing a rez change in the a.m ... straight tap.. no need to let it set for 24 hrs... just heatup and add nutes .. woohoo,diggin it.... welcomeback nug.


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## legallyflying (Feb 12, 2011)

Woohoo diggin it? Who says that? 

I dont have nasties but to be honest I'm not sure what your talking about


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## frogster (Feb 12, 2011)

Nastys.... ie.... bad Things in your rez or on your roots.... fungus, algae etc...


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## cruzer101 (Feb 12, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Beginning of week 5 Rez change. I also flushed but resulting ppm were low (125) so probably didnt need to.
> All quantities per gallon
> 5 ml liquid karma
> 5 ml cal mag
> ...


Huh? your saying they used all the available nutrients in a week without depositing any salts back in the res?
Dam, I never heard of that being done. You really have this shit dialed in man.

Oh resulting ppms, I get it now.


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## legallyflying (Feb 12, 2011)

Yeah, I basically flushed about 125 ppm or so out of the growing medium. 

My Rez was at 1200 when I changed it. Started last week at 1580 plus I added about 500 ppm worth of fresh nutes throughout the week. So yeah, last week was a big growth week. Going to need to start running the carbon filter soon


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## nugbuckets (Feb 12, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Woohoo diggin it? Who says that?


i knew it! frogster is a closet hippie....he should really be in the dirt.


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## xivex (Feb 12, 2011)

For some reason thinking about dirty frog in the dirt made me remember the old beastie boys line from tye middle fone of their songs..

" ...shit if this gonna be that kinda party, imma stick my dick in the mashed potatoes!". 

Hehe

X


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## legallyflying (Feb 15, 2011)

Taking some pictures this evening. Things are bulking up in a hurry and look pretty frosty as well. 

*FEAR ME *


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## Allister (Feb 15, 2011)

Haven't seen much in this thread for a few days.... Froggy... still out there? Come on with some of that famous smack dude!! We are waiting to hear from you!


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## legallyflying (Feb 16, 2011)

Word, I think he might have melted his plants or something. Some close up shots of trich formation.... 

Will post some bud pics soon but I took them with my other camera and need to bust out some work first.


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## legallyflying (Feb 16, 2011)

Ok, some legit bud porn. Very pleased at this point. Ladies are doing extremely well without a single sign of deficiency or burning or any bummer things like that. 

Buds are starting to fatten up nicely. Please remember that I am mid 5th week, things are going to get allot bigger soon!!

Other updates in the never ending room maximization and total automation:

Bought another 70 pint dehumidifier. Also installed a condensate pump that fills a tank outside the room. NO MORE EMPTYING BUCKETS!! Plus I get completely chlromine free water for the rez.

I also ordered a tankless water heater. Going to ditch the co2 bottle. NO MORE CARRYING BOTTLES!!

I also installed my "vacation enabler" Which is simply a 25 gallon top off tank. There is a float valve that opens only when the buckets fill and the rez drops. I have 1/4 strength nutes in there PH'd at 3.2. So far the rez level has not changed and it has stayed at 5.8 for 4 days. YEAH BABY!!!

oh yeah...the pics


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## tricka (Feb 16, 2011)

I love comps!! was spose to sub up last week but didnt click the little click thingy, well im about as close as i can get to the screen and along for the ride 
bud porn is looking great, the frost will show


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## legallyflying (Feb 16, 2011)

Bummer I hate when i post pics and one post bump them back a page


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## tricka (Feb 16, 2011)

lol sorry mate?


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## JimBro (Feb 16, 2011)

Nice, LF. Bud porn in the morn...next best thing to wake and bake.

I would like to hear more about your vacation enabler. Maybe if you get bored and have the time you could start a thread on that one. I have been thinking of how to set something similar up with the limited space I have to increase the capacity of my res.


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## xivex (Feb 16, 2011)

Tasty. Id rub my balls on that plant for sure LF!! Mmmmmm!


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## BluBerry (Feb 16, 2011)

that scrog net has really filled out nicely. great looking plants


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## Allister (Feb 16, 2011)

Jeez damn shame you only have a couple there.... LOL What a kick ass looking grow! They are coming along nicely!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 16, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> I thought Jesus was a black woman?


Fuck I missed you guys talking about Jesus, oh well I would have just ruined the thread.


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## NONHater (Feb 16, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Ok, some legit bud porn. Very pleased at this point. Ladies are doing extremely well without a single sign of deficiency or burning or any bummer things like that.
> 
> Buds are starting to fatten up nicely. Please remember that I am mid 5th week, things are going to get allot bigger soon!!
> 
> ...


----------



## legallyflying (Feb 16, 2011)

I think that perhaps frogster saw my pictures and promptly had a heart attack.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 16, 2011)

Frogster-


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## MaryWanna420 (Feb 16, 2011)

frogster said:


> I will for sure win looking at that future mexi-brick you have there....I think you better switch your nutes to Miracle Grow.. That light rail is going to fall on your plants and destroy them when I come by and use my universal remote to activate the garage.. Your plants look a little droopy... sup with that? recovery from transplant? yep, Im feeling a bit more confidant now... Smack talk officially open!



+rep here lol


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## legallyflying (Feb 16, 2011)

I think froggy is trying to think of some new category that he won't get powned in.


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## frogster (Feb 16, 2011)

catagory? How about the projects I am working on will produce 100million more dollars than what your buds will produce....  I have been up north all week working on global domination in several categories.... My son is taking care of the girls.... Made a mistake putting an organic spray (clove, cinnamin,etc) on a large section of the supercropped girls.... some leaves are fried..... will trim them off when I get back allowing light to penetrate the lower foliage. not sure about the budsites effected and how they will do without fan leaves?, will have to post pics and a report.... scrogged girls are frosty as hell and canopy is filling out still..... taking more and more h20 everyday.... approx 5 gal a day... ppm going up a little 640-720,,, need to topoff and add nutes...


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## Allister (Feb 17, 2011)

Woo hooo! Froggy returns! Good to see ya back, now how bout some pics of those girls?


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## JimBro (Feb 17, 2011)

Checked out your site. Looks like a good read.

One suggestion, though. You might think about laying off the hardcore sales pitch in these posts. It just reads fake to people like me (if we ever get past the first line or two). Your website is there for the hard sell. You might think about using the boards to connect with growers (throw out a little free info) and then slide in a link to your site. I'd be a lot more willing to purchase if you had taken that approach. This looks like a cut and paste with a P.S. thrown in at the end to show you at least read the thread (good to know).

Anyway, that's just my two cents. Best of luck.

P.S. Bear in mind , this opinion is coming from the guy who got the Most Posts of Absolutely No Value Award in this thread.


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## xivex (Feb 18, 2011)

Hey i thought i won that award jimbro? Oh wait, no, that was the "excessive non-dominant hand masturbation" title...nevermind. 

X


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## legallyflying (Feb 18, 2011)

xivex said:


> Hey i thought i won that award jimbro? Oh wait, no, that was the "excessive non-dominant hand masturbation" title...nevermind.
> 
> X


I think Xivex won the "most innovative masturbation technique award" for making his arm fall asleep and THEN rubbing one out. Two pounds a plant....cough***bullshit*** cough. I'm sure everyone has room for improvement, but come on. I got almost 6 oz per plant lat run, I can do 400% better? Here is the rub, I went to the website as I figure, ok, you spam up my thread but what the hell, I'll but the book, and if it contains some good info then I'll spread the word that its worth it. I spend like 10 minutes clicking around trying to buy the fucking thing....ITS NOT CURRENTLY FOR SALE! ? If your going to pimp your shit at least have something to sell or take a minute to add something to my thread.

Masters of growing...maybe; masters of marketing...fail.


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## nugbuckets (Feb 18, 2011)

JimBro said:


> Checked out your site. Looks like a good read.
> 
> One suggestion, though. You might think about laying off the hardcore sales pitch in these posts. It just reads fake to people like me (if we ever get past the first line or two). Your website is there for the hard sell. You might think about using the boards to connect with growers (throw out a little free info) and then slide in a link to your site. I'd be a lot more willing to purchase if you had taken that approach. This looks like a cut and paste with a P.S. thrown in at the end to show you at least read the thread (good to know).
> 
> ...


Perhaps...but it is only his second post, so maybe he is just a real slow reader....


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## legallyflying (Feb 18, 2011)

His first mistake was telling me "I'm just scratching the surface". I'm interested in the book but I hardly need info on how to build a scrog screen or set up a grow room. My room is fucking dialed. What I need is real world specifics about environmental conditions and nutrients/ additives for each growth stage. If it's anything like Jorges book, I'm over it. I don't need to know how to pop seeds or clone it any of that other total been shit that comprises 90% of growing books. 

I have been seriously thinking about starting a mj research facility that tests all the different nutrients and techniques side by side. The only problem is how to fund it.


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## frogster (Feb 18, 2011)

Yea,, the fucknut is gone... cant even pm him.... I will go to his site,,, and give it a virus from hell!..


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## legallyflying (Feb 19, 2011)

Wow. That report post link really works! Thanks mods


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## meezy4tw (Feb 19, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> His first mistake was telling me "I'm just scratching the surface". I'm interested in the book but I hardly need info on how to build a scrog screen or set up a grow room. My room is fucking dialed. What I need is real world specifics about environmental conditions and nutrients/ additives for each growth stage. If it's anything like Jorges book, I'm over it. I don't need to know how to pop seeds or clone it any of that other total been shit that comprises 90% of growing books.
> 
> I have been seriously thinking about starting a mj research facility that tests all the different nutrients and techniques side by side. The only problem is how to fund it.


Damn straight right here. lol


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 19, 2011)

So what happened did this guy come in here saying everyone is doing it wrong and he knows it all, and he was actually trying to sell some book.


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## JimBro (Feb 19, 2011)

He didn't say they were doing it wrong so much as it could be done better..and so can you! ...if, of course, you buy the book. I'm like LF, there is a serious information gap that needs filling in the cannabis cultivation market. I'm not sure how you're gonna get your project funded, LF, but when you do hit me up and I'll move to CO to work for ya. You could get the ball rolling by gathering up your CO grow buddies, call yourselves the Rocky High Masters or some such shit, and write a book. If you need marketing advice I could probably hook you up with a cat by the name of Dru West. That dude's a marketing master.

By the way...any pics coming soon?


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## legallyflying (Feb 19, 2011)

I just posted pics last week. Flip back a page or two


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## frogster (Feb 19, 2011)

I will take pics next week when they are a little fatter,,, they have been frosty as hell, all the way down the stems!,,, the blueberry have mixed hair colors now... amber and white.. looks pretty cool... I fucked about half the top leaves on the supercropped side... but the buds dont seem to mind.... they keep growing,, and getting pretty smelly.......


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## JimBro (Feb 19, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> I just posted pics last week. Flip back a page or two


 I remember those beauties now. Wish I could blame it on being high.

Lookin' forward to those pics, Froggy...still think the Inet needs to develop scratch n' sniff


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## newstrainnewrules (Feb 20, 2011)

good idea jimbro, scratch n sniff for attitude would make alot more sales


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## xivex (Feb 21, 2011)

STUMBLIN'...


This thread needs something totally unrelated:

[video=youtube;-NjX0M9nuhw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NjX0M9nuhw[/video]

Stumblin' past "THREE DIFFERENT KINDS OF BEARS" is the best, next to the Tiny Harmonica Solo of course! 

The *third type of bear reminds me of LF* for some odd reason...maybe its due to his avatar...? 

X

PS -- I'm high as fuck!


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## legallyflying (Feb 21, 2011)

Wow you must have some REALLY good meds on hand if you thought that was funny. 
Now this is funny...

[video=youtube;xDQd49rEF_0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDQd49rEF_0[/video]


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## xivex (Feb 21, 2011)

Yeah saw that standup on HBO awile back, was good shit! 

X

You see how much water he drinks and how much he sweats and twitches while performing? Can you say Cocaine?


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## legallyflying (Feb 21, 2011)

I heard him say once, I think it was on david letterman. "cocaine is gods way of saying you make too much money"


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## legallyflying (Feb 21, 2011)

Ok frogster.. Its time for those pictures now....

I should post pics of my new tankless hot water heater CO2 generator. Works like a charm, stoked for sure.


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## frogster (Feb 21, 2011)

OK, OK the pressure!! Here's a few frosty shots...  mmm. the smell is incredible...


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## frogster (Feb 21, 2011)

Wow Lf.. looked back a couple of pages at your bud porn,,, the crush soda seems appropriate at this point... those are freaking huge buds compared to mine... I would say my largest is about half of that one posted.... your canopy is even also, my buds at the end are really small. the light rail doesn't quite reach all the way... but im running a 1000watts over that 4x8 area , so i guess thats to be expected.... they are growing and smelling good, so im happy at this point.... matter of fact i was handling a few of the sour diesels and they freaking reeeeek... I have read reports of this strain being ridiculously uncarriable on your person... Im starting to understand


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## legallyflying (Feb 21, 2011)

frogster said:


> Wow Lf.. looked back a couple of pages at your bud porn,,, the crush soda seems appropriate at this point... those are freaking huge buds compared to mine... I would say my largest is about half of that one posted.... your canopy is even also, my buds at the end are really small. the light rail doesn't quite reach all the way... but im running a 1000watts over that 4x8 area , so i guess thats to be expected.... they are growing and smelling good, so im happy at this point....


 You should see them now. I am completely slammed with work or I would post some pics but they are growing nicely. I found a couple stragglers that I pulled up through the screen to green up and bulk up. Mine seem a little frostier than yours and I wonder if that is total lux? The top buds are basking in 90k lux which is about as much as they can possibly stand. I have also been keeping the humidity at a constant 40%. The difference could be allot of things. I'm quite certain the CO2 plays a huge role, as does the HPS lamp. 

But yeah, they are growing and smelling good and that is all that matters. Mine don't have a whole hell of allot of smell but I have an absolute horrible sense of smell. I just turned the carbon filter on to be on the safe side. The only thing I am really not happy with is that many of my stems were not vertical when I got done training and therefore I have several leaning tower of pizza (sic) buds. They will be interesting to trim  

I think that I a going to top a second time this veg cycle and also LST some of them to really get about 8 main stalks. Then I will progressively trim off all the little branches over the course of a week. 

How does the underside of your screen look? Did you get shit loads of leaves dying and falling off? At first your like WTF? but then you realize that is just the life of the SCROG. I'm interested to see how my yield with "more spaced out" bigger buds and less popcorn strategy works out. There is definitely some spaces in the screen that could be more jam packed with buds. 

Good times.


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## legallyflying (Feb 21, 2011)

Ok, you talked me into it. BRB


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## legallyflying (Feb 21, 2011)

I'm bumping myself to the next page


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## frogster (Feb 21, 2011)

I assume your talking about pics.... I couldnt get to the lower part of my scrog on the wall plants by the reservoir,,,, they have shitty weird plants there,,, one of them is a freaky spinly little thing ,, (the one clone that was taken during flowering) suppose to be a big bud strain but I would call it stick sick bud,,, lots of skinny little twigs that resemble sticker bushes!, but they seems to be filling in along the whole stem,, about 12 of them..the other is the jack herr,back in the far corner,, it looks like it has one bud,, lol,, but a decent one,,, it had trouble in the early days and im surprised it made it at all,,,, . I have alot of lower leaves on the supercropped side dying off... the center of the scrog is filled to the brim , not a space available for anything... I have the humidity at 35% and a fan constantly on them to keep mold away, its going to get really thick in there the next few weeks...


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## legallyflying (Feb 21, 2011)

ok. here you go.


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## frogster (Feb 21, 2011)

The temps are a little low in the room,, sometimes it doesnt get past 69-70 degrees with lights&one1500watt heater on, I wonder if that not a good thing? nothing more I can really do to help out,,, if I turn the big vent fan off the temps will rise but the humidity goes through the roof... I turn the gas heater in my living room up to 90 and that helps... the hot air gets sucked into the grow room... I was also thinking of tying down my tallest buds and lowering the light a bit on the scrogged side... its kinda high over everything else, especially when it gets to the ends..


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## frogster (Feb 21, 2011)

Frog crush...  yea, those girls are looking very happy... would be Nice to see some more close ups... damn, I was feeling all good and crap about my pics until you posted yours.. a few of those shots are like professional pics in a magazine.... and we have a bit to go with them suckers filling out... hmm, now im wondering how damn big those babies are going to get? each one looks the have the capability to match your largest one from last grow... 2oz dried bud wasnt it?


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## legallyflying (Feb 21, 2011)

Yeah the big ones will probably come in around 2oz or so. 

70 degrees is a little low. Why don't you just put your exhaust fans on a timer.. 15off, 30 on or whatever it takes to maintain the right temp? 

I thought the Frog crush was a nice touch


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## BluBerry (Feb 22, 2011)

*Looking very good. Lots of buds*


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## meezy4tw (Feb 22, 2011)

Beautiful legal.
I'm gonna throw this out there and guess 3.2 this time around. lol


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## xivex (Feb 22, 2011)

Stumblin' into legals even canopy!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 22, 2011)

Those buds are monsters.


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## frogster (Feb 22, 2011)

Oh, no the guessing game! here we go... I got ripped off last time... I should have won!... Legal gave it to a guy with a >"RANGE"< of weight... I beat out everyone using the Old Price is right technique.. I guessed just a little over the last guy.... That shit aint happening this round...  My girls are taking more water everyday,,, but my ppm are skyrocketing.... Went from 760 to 890 after I light cycle.... the res is a little low (18" out of 32") , I topped it off 5 days ago at 29" and added nutes accordingly... yep, just looked at my books,,, did a complete rez change on the 5th... so I guess its time... (17days) I did add in between, i mixed the nutes in the individual gallons and added around 6 gallons on the 9th....... Rez changes are so much easier now that im using bleach! No need to worry about my tap water, just heat it up and add nutes...... plants are digging 2-4ppm of clorox, I have white roots that are healthy now.... peroxide and benefitial bacteria can kiss my ass! Thx, FATMAN... that guy does know his shit.


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## legallyflying (Feb 22, 2011)

You waited 17 days between Rez changes? In the middle of flower!! I admire your style but weekly Rex changes during flower are the rule for this dude. 

When are you measuring your ppm? After you top off with tap water to the original level? That is the only time the readings mean anything. My girls are for sure thirsty. 20+ gallons in 4 days. Ppm level has been constant but my top off tank is 600 ppm and 3.5 ph so I can't really tell what absorption rates are.


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## Kali Soul (Feb 22, 2011)

looking good legal, can wait to see how much u yield. cool thread dude


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## frogster (Feb 22, 2011)

Wow..lowering my lights, I tied down the tallest bud in my scrog (on the farthest side , next to wall) and during this fiasco I was digging around the bud jungle and discovered I have a hell of a lot more bud in there than what I thought! yes, i went longer on my nutes than i should,,, but these damn nutes are expensive and are amino acid based... I have enough to finish out my grow (2 more full rez changes) and the plants look like they are ok,, No deficiencies... The Ecosmart organic spray hurt the hell out of some leaves (fried the crap out of em') ,,, I compared it to Ed Rosenthals "zero tolerance" and discovered the Eco was 10x the amount of % oils!... no wonder... so I diluted it and tried it out on a few leaves tonight.... stuff is a bargain diluted....


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## frogster (Feb 22, 2011)

Damn kali, dont my buds get any love?


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## legallyflying (Feb 22, 2011)

What are you spraying on your buds? Dude don't spray insecticide on your buds!!


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## frogster (Feb 23, 2011)

Oils,,, rosemary, clove , cinnamon etc.... lots of companies put this out.sierra, ed rosenthal etc .. the ecosmart was just too concentrated ... I had a few mites... not too bad. the temps never get over 75-77 so they have never really went crazy... one plant (on supercropped side) has has them sporadically since the beginning of the grow... never has shaken them completly... they seem to be gone for a couple weeks after I treat them , then pop back up on the same plant... weird... but like I said, the temps are low and they never have gone crazy.... little fuckers......


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## legallyflying (Feb 23, 2011)

Ohhh I was like dude, don't do that. Spider mites are viscous little bastards for sure. They multiply exponentially and they do it in a hurry.


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## meezy4tw (Feb 23, 2011)

frogster said:


> Oh, no the guessing game! here we go... I got ripped off last time... I should have won!... Legal gave it to a guy with a >"RANGE"< of weight... I beat out everyone using the Old Price is right technique.. I guessed just a little over the last guy.... That shit aint happening this round...  My girls are taking more water everyday,,, but my ppm are skyrocketing.... Went from 760 to 890 after I light cycle.... the res is a little low (18" out of 32") , I topped it off 5 days ago at 29" and added nutes accordingly... yep, just looked at my books,,, did a complete rez change on the 5th... so I guess its time... (17days) I did add in between, i mixed the nutes in the individual gallons and added around 6 gallons on the 9th....... Rez changes are so much easier now that im using bleach! No need to worry about my tap water, just heat it up and add nutes...... plants are digging 2-4ppm of clorox, I have white roots that are healthy now.... peroxide and benefitial bacteria can kiss my ass! Thx, FATMAN... that guy does know his shit.


HAHA LOL we'll see about that, just remember I already guessed 3.2 so I'll be sticking with that guess. 
Maybe this time YOU can have the option of leftover fruitcake or scissors like I did, LOL

In either case both of you are doing well, and congrats on the beautiful grows.


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## legallyflying (Feb 23, 2011)

The scissors are in the mail, I promise!!! I just dropped them off yesterday  

of course it was post harvest. Let me know what you think of that variety of scissors.


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## meezy4tw (Feb 23, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> The scissors are in the mail, I promise!!! I just dropped them off yesterday
> 
> of course it was post harvest. Let me know what you think of that variety of scissors.


Lmfao I'm not worried, I'm sure their nice ones. I'd rep you but its not letting me lol


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## frogster (Feb 23, 2011)

Meezy... ... Im going to wait till the last minute and guess 3.20000001...lol never be the first to guess...


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## Kali Soul (Feb 24, 2011)

Yea frogster rep to u too,props to everyone in this thread. soon im gona upload some pictures of my future scrog. i got chemdogs rite now, for wat i see it looks like its a good strain to scrog. i tryd to FIM them but some came out wrong, but ders hella bud sites everywhere. but yea frog reps to both of ya, we only get better at this. Thats why i do research before anything


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## legallyflying (Feb 24, 2011)

Chemdog is a money strain for sure. I just sprouted headband seeds which are a close relative.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 24, 2011)

Have you ever grown Headband before LeagallyFlying I have a couple from reserva privada and I read some places they aren't big yielder's and are fickle with nutrients.


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## legallyflying (Feb 24, 2011)

No I havent. That is not exactly what I want to hear


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## meezy4tw (Feb 24, 2011)

I have grown headband before. 707 headband to be exact. The stuff I grew had some pretty big colas but the total yield is "ok" its not the highest yielding but not the lowest either... On the other hand, headband does seem to be a bit sensitive to nutrients. I wouldn't give too much.


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## legallyflying (Feb 25, 2011)

Dude I fucking love your avatar


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## newstrainnewrules (Feb 25, 2011)

i posted that pic in a demotivational forum a couple weeks ago, gotta love the classics


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## cruzer101 (Feb 25, 2011)

Yea I just finished a headband grow, hydro, in my green house. Started flowering them at about 18" and got a little over a zip each. I agree a bit sensitive to nutes, I ran them around 600ppm I think. Lots of calyxes compared to other hybrids I've grown. Its more like Train wreck or Casey Jones. Thumb size dried nuggets though. More on the Sativa side. That's how it turned out for me anyway.

Great grow off guys, I'm picking up some good info.


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## legallyflying (Feb 25, 2011)

Thumb sized? I like forearm sized buds. Hmmm, this is going to be an interesting grow. Won't be until the cycle after the next. I'm vegging endless sky right now. A little sow growing they are. 

In addition to headband, I'm also mothering white widow/big bud, northern lights blue, sugar black rose, and channel +. I think I'm most excited about the sugar black rose.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 25, 2011)

meezy4tw said:


> I have grown headband before. 707 headband to be exact. The stuff I grew had some pretty big colas but the total yield is "ok" its not the highest yielding but not the lowest either... On the other hand, headband does seem to be a bit sensitive to nutrients. I wouldn't give too much.


I liked your avatar not confirming what I read about Headband, dammit I really wanted to grow Headband but well see. Did you grow the 707 in Soil or Hydro, and if hydro where did you run your PPM's up to during late flowering.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 25, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Thumb sized? I like forearm sized buds. Hmmm, this is going to be an interesting grow. Won't be until the cycle after the next. I'm vegging endless sky right now. A little sow growing they are.
> 
> In addition to headband, I'm also mothering white widow/big bud, northern lights blue, sugar black rose, and channel +. I think I'm most excited about the sugar black rose.


Sorry if you already mentioned it but im real lazy, how far along is your Headband, I agree, I like Forearm sized buds also even though I just started to grow them. Before that I grew in that sloppy stuff we still seem to see people waisting their time growing in, never got much, now im growing tree's in hydro.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 25, 2011)

cruzer101 said:


> Yea I just finished a headband grow, hydro, in my green house. Started flowering them at about 18" and got a little over a zip each. I agree a bit sensitive to nutes, I ran them around 600ppm I think. Lots of calyxes compared to other hybrids I've grown. Its more like Train wreck or Casey Jones. Thumb size dried nuggets though. More on the Sativa side. That's how it turned out for me anyway.
> 
> Great grow off guys, I'm picking up some good info.


I read your Greenhouse build a while back and was drolling I wish I had one, sweet setup. Fuck only a ounce off of each plant in Hydro, that scares me they were some expensive ass seeds. I just grew RP's Coletrain just 1 plant and I got a touch over 10 ounces of bud and 17 grams of hash from trim and smaller buds I was too lazy to trim.

I had a bag of some HeadBand I cant verify if it was legit or just some other strain the guy I get it from gets his shit from calie its usually what he says it is. But I was very impressed and couldn't wait to grow it now im thinking about selling the seeds. I plan on getting more in the future I made alot of mistakes as it was my first time with hydro but shit if I got 8 ounces off of one headband plant in a SCROG I would be happy. Do you think thats achievable I mean if its fickle with nutes I imagine the bigger it is the more fickle it becomes but maybe thats not the case.


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## legallyflying (Feb 25, 2011)

It would almost have to yield more than an ounce/ plant. Seems to me that most of it comes down to veg time. I guess there is one way to find out for sure. I certainly won't be flowering many until I see what they do.


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## meezy4tw (Feb 25, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I liked your avatar not confirming what I read about Headband, dammit I really wanted to grow Headband but well see. Did you grow the 707 in Soil or Hydro, and if hydro where did you run your PPM's up to during late flowering.


I grow in soil, I DO have a single 3 gal dwc though(I don't use it right now). I overnuted her once mid veg, and a tiny bit in flower (I only used 1/4 strength doses, and fed about once every week and a half(I use the alaska fish emulsion and morbloom.). I say go light to easy dose on the nutes and you should be fine.
As much as I love headband, to me its a lanky plant with an ok yield and thats about it. On a plus side though, its usually very potent with a nice buzz effect to the high. The calyx's tend to stack up on top of one another, almost alternating.
I'd like to try growing headband outside at some point, I have a feeling it would do really well.


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## cruzer101 (Feb 25, 2011)

I'm sure you will do better then I did with those rockin lights of yours. Those girls didn't veg much and were grown under cloudy skys.


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## frogster (Feb 25, 2011)

Stacked calyx's... Scared the shit out of me a few nights ago, The one clone/now plant that looks like a freak of a sticker bush I thought was a male, I was about to rip it out of the room until I spent about an hour on the net really studying the fine differances between a calyx and a ball sac.... Its suppose to be a big bud plant but its nothing near the other big buds,,The calyxs are so stacked its weird , and just now almost all the hairs are coming out .. its so far behind in development from the others......, Im sure the jackass where I bought the clones just threw some shit together,he did mention that this one clone was taken from a flowering plant..... they were only $5 rooted clones...you get what you pay for...... ....


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## legallyflying (Feb 25, 2011)

cruzer101 said:


> . Those girls didn't veg much and were grown under cloudy skys.


You must live really close to me. All we get is cloudy skies.


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## legallyflying (Feb 25, 2011)

been kind of slacker lately so I decided to open my power bill since it said "account past due on the front". Seems I owe them about 2.5 months worth of payments. I almost shit myself when I saw the total bill $910.85

YIKES


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 25, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> been kind of slacker lately so I decided to open my power bill since it said "account past due on the front". Seems I owe them about 2.5 months worth of payments. I almost shit myself when I saw the total bill $910.85
> 
> YIKES


Pay those bills, keeps that heat away even if you are legally Flying you can Legally Federal level flying.


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## frogster (Feb 27, 2011)

So, if your lights get cut off right now,,, I just may have a chance!  ...... Im surprised how fat the girls have grown the past few days... perhaps the fresh nute change? also they are drinking water like they are on a desert... ppm are going up about 50 a day...I moved a small fan infront of the air intake and it was 82 in the room this morning,,, yea...


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## legallyflying (Feb 27, 2011)

Is 82 a reduction in temps? I have been thinking of installing a booster fan on my hood inlet duct to reduce temps a bit.


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## legallyflying (Feb 28, 2011)

Ok Frogster, I think its time for another set of pictures. Will upload this evening.


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## tricka (Feb 28, 2011)

fuck yeah, bring it on boys!!


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## frogster (Mar 1, 2011)

Legal your post count is getting bigger than your buds,,, damn , are you living on this site?


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## legallyflying (Mar 1, 2011)

frogster said:


> Legal your post count is getting bigger than your buds,,, damn , are you living on this site?


Don't change the subject. Post those pictures of your CFL buds.


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## tricka (Mar 1, 2011)

What doe CFL stand for again........Crappy, fluffly, light buds lol 

nah juz couldnt help myself Frogster i been wanting to say that since i thought of it, and this was a perfect platform....no hard feelings


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## xivex (Mar 1, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Don't change the subject. Post those pictures of your CFL buds.


Lmao. Im glad im not the one who has to back up the smack talk at this point.. Poor frog! 

X


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 1, 2011)

tricka said:


> What doe CFL stand for again........Crappy, fluffly, light buds lol
> 
> nah juz couldnt help myself Frogster i been wanting to say that since i thought of it, and this was a perfect platform....no hard feelings


It might as well stand for that.


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## legallyflying (Mar 2, 2011)

Bud porn. Still have at least a week left, probably two. 

Hey Frogster, there is an emoti-con that you may want to have at your disposal come harvest time.....

kiss-ass


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## meezy4tw (Mar 2, 2011)

Beeutiful. I would live in there. lol


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## xivex (Mar 2, 2011)

Hey LF, buds are looking fucking awesome mate. If your looking to lower your temps some since you have air cooled hoods, just buy 3 of the heat shields for your reflectors. Find the right size and they will hold some of that heat in and lessen the temp in your room a few degrees. I love mine. Tops of my reflectors never go above 82F. 

X


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## legallyflying (Mar 2, 2011)

Yeah, I actually hand crafted one out of that heat barrier stuff they sell at home depot. I just added a small booster fan to help flow through the hoods and I'm going to see if insulating the other two hoods helps or not. I lost my fucking infrared thermometer and that would help soooo much in this situation. Press a button and it gives you the temp of whatever surface its pointed at.


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## xivex (Mar 2, 2011)

Harbor Freight sells those for like $15 or some shit. I love mine!


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## meezy4tw (Mar 2, 2011)

So, legal Thank you SO much, I got the scissors in the mail today.
I was worried they had gotten lost in transit, but that "extra care" you put into that package was beautiful. 
I'll have to send you some scissors too. lol 
That really made my day thank you.


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## legallyflying (Mar 3, 2011)

meezy4tw said:


> So, legal Thank you SO much, I got the scissors in the mail today.
> I was worried they had gotten lost in transit, but that "extra care" you put into that package was beautiful.
> I'll have to send you some scissors too. lol
> That really made my day thank you.


Glad you liked it. Thanks soo much for the detailed review. Had to show it to my official product tester. AKA my wife. See...this is the info I'm looking for. 

My wife's typical strain review. It smells good, I'm really stoned.


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## frogster (Mar 3, 2011)

I gave a snippit out, lower bud air dried popcorn, Guy said it was too strong... lol... heavy user... No reason for pics right now,,, they had a growth spurt for a couple days, now they seem stuck at the same size... I peeked at the trichomes at 100x and they are still completely clear,,, The sour diesel smell is out of control if the vents off for even a few minutes,,, yesterday I had the vent off and you could smell them from the mailbox down the hill,,my son was checking the mail and was amazed he smelled it.. Its a good ways down... I belive the quality will be very, very good compared to the local dispensary offering..... Im starting to contemplate my curing.... might do a little with the dry ice process, then get feedback from a seasoned smoker.. I really dont want to wait 6-8 weeks for the cure...


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## legallyflying (Mar 4, 2011)

Well that is good news for sure. I have a horrible sniffer so I can't smell much. I scrub my room though so that has allot to do with it. My mango kush are really starting to swell up. The jack herrers are probably a week behind them. 

Why don't you try the 5 day dark drowning instead of the long cure? Going to give it a whirl. The process is described in a thread calls the truth on flushing


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## frogster (Mar 4, 2011)

I will look into that, never heard that technique before, but I haven't read up on curing yet, because I have never had anything to cure!!! lol... Im up for sending you my scissors so someone in your camp camp can report on them.I mean, after all, its only logical.... or should we use an independent scissor enthusiast judge from the thread here? ahhh, a thread from riddleme,,, he knows his shit.. heres the link.. https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/409622-truth-about-flushing.html


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## BluBerry (Mar 4, 2011)

*Things are looking good in both ops. Keep up the good work. I still have alot to learn. I'll be a certified scissor sampler if anyone wants to send me some scissor samples. Small ones Big ones. Blue ones, Orange ones. I'll sample them all. Lol!!*


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## frogster (Mar 4, 2011)

Ok, legal,you snake.... just read that your a biologist on that thread!!! lol... I get an extra 50% handicap.... sandbagger.... yea, teh drowning methods looks cool, for sure I will do it, going to ask about temps though.......


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## newstrainnewrules (Mar 4, 2011)

lol if scissor judges are neeeded i will be happy to volenteer my services


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## xivex (Mar 4, 2011)

Yeah LF did kinda slide his chosen profession thru the gates quickly and quietly... I hear ya frog, you should get a bonus to offset legal's professional advantage. I mean for someone who inseminates zoo gorillas artifiicially, via elbow deep methodology, legal is really fucking good at growing marijuana. Its almost unfair! 

Damn zookeepers! 


Hehehe...

X


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## legallyflying (Mar 4, 2011)

frogster said:


> Ok, legal,you snake.... just read that your a biologist on that thread!!! lol... I get an extra 50% handicap.... sandbagger.... yea, teh drowning methods looks cool, for sure I will do it, going to ask about temps though.......


Bachelor in biology, minor in botany, masters in ecology. So yeah, plants and plant physiology is not exactly new to me  

What I really want to do is grow stinging nettle in the same pots as my buds but I just can't find any research that says it will definitely help potency. Anecdotal evidence yes but hard numbers, no.


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## rasputin71 (Mar 4, 2011)

Eff nettles. Those things tore me up one time while tromping around the woods (at night, in shorts, man I was high) in Washington State in September.


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## frogster (Mar 4, 2011)

WHOA<< ALL THAT PLANT BIOLOGY, I just have one thing to say for suckering me into a scroggoff...::::>>>> what a "FUCKER" lol.. Waitaminute vines in east Texas will rip your shirt right off you.... One boys night out of heavt drinking (about 7 of us) we were cutting through the dirt backwoods roads... and spotted a Buck all tangled up in WAITAMINUTE vines,,, Tires slid to a sliding stop.. I grabbed my Stainless monster BUCK Rambo knife, took a drunkin run and took a mighty leap onto the deer, damn near had the blade entering him when he jumped , tore my ass to pieces and effortlessly escaped the vines and my now bleeding , stuck in waitaminute vines ass..... Even mentioning this story to any of the guys this many years later brings tears ti their eyes from laughing..... But , hey, I DAMN NEAR HAD HIM!!!! Have a few scars as a best effort trophy.....


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## frogster (Mar 4, 2011)

Ok, heres a few pics, I included the good the bad and the ugly... check out the wimpy looking stickers the one clone "grew up " to be,, wtf? lol, too weird... thought it was male, but nope just weird calyx and wispy growth... The ice cream bucket in dirt is turning out great, what a nice little plant, getting fat almost the entire length... hmm, makes me want to grow single colas in dirt!!! uhh,, NO///


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 4, 2011)

How many CFL's are u using, maybe get a few more.


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## legallyflying (Mar 4, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> How many CFL's are u using, maybe get a few more.


Oh SNAP!! ROTFL

He's just kidding. You have pictures of the main colas right?


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## xivex (Mar 4, 2011)

Poor Frog. I almost feel bad for him...almost. 

Love this thread! 

When is the harvest guys? I know its coming up for LF..


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## legallyflying (Mar 4, 2011)

I dunno, I'm currently in scratch your head mode. The mango and blue widow look to be ready next week although the Jack herrer probably has two weeks left. I'll probably split the difference and flush, and drown with the lights on say wens? Then lights off on Thursday and harvest on sunday/monday. 

Scrub on hands and knees, rinse, repeat. Oh yeah, plus its going to be mutha fuckin D day for those little bastard fungus knats that keep evading me. Seriously, it only takes like one of those little bastards hiding in the corner to start reproducing. They were COMPLETELY gone, then I saw one in the veg tent. Sticky traps then caught 5 in the next day. Gunna lay some Doktor Doom on them fuckers. Twice. http://homeharvest.com/insectspraystotalreleasefoggers.htm


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## phyzix (Mar 4, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> I dunno, I'm currently in scratch your head mode. The mango and blue widow look to be ready next week although the Jack herrer probably has two weeks left. I'll probably split the difference and flush, and drown with the lights on say wens? Then lights off on Thursday and harvest on sunday/monday.
> 
> Scrub on hands and knees, rinse, repeat. Oh yeah, plus its going to be mutha fuckin D day for those little bastard fungus knats that keep evading me. Seriously, it only takes like one of those little bastards hiding in the corner to start reproducing. They were COMPLETELY gone, then I saw one in the veg tent. Sticky traps then caught 5 in the next day. Gunna lay some Doktor Doom on them fuckers. Twice. http://homeharvest.com/insectspraystotalreleasefoggers.htm


Dok Doom stuff is the shit.


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## legallyflying (Mar 4, 2011)

I just purchased a:
5.5 oz can of doctor doom
A 6 pack of mosquito dunks
A bottle of gognats
and I have just enough azamax to dunk all my veg buckets.

IT ENDS HERE.


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## sladeofdark (Mar 4, 2011)

man those look flippin FANTASTIC cant wait to do my first time grow.. i am getting SOOO confident now


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## legallyflying (Mar 4, 2011)

sladeofdark said:


> man those look flippin FANTASTIC cant wait to do my first time grow.. i am getting SOOO confident now


The first grow is exciting. I will say this though, while its not technically difficult, its not exactly easy either. That said, spend the money on good equipment, have an understanding and reason for everything you do in your room, and you'll have great results. Cut corners and do shit because "this seems right" or "blank" did it this way and I assure you that your going to run into issues.


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## phyzix (Mar 4, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> I just purchased a:
> 5.5 oz can of doctor doom
> A 6 pack of mosquito dunks
> A bottle of gognats
> ...


I like this stuff http://www.amazon.com/Doktor-Doom-Spider-Mite-Knock/dp/B002JU1QEI


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## xivex (Mar 4, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> I just purchased a:
> 5.5 oz can of doctor doom
> A 6 pack of mosquito dunks
> A bottle of gognats
> ...


Shit i would hope so with that much. Ive got a bottle of einstein oil, azamax, organocide, and serenade. Havent had to use anything yet. Im sure the time will come tho. A keast i feel ready should that day occur..

X


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## cruzer101 (Mar 5, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> You must live really close to me. All we get is cloudy skies.


Ha! Maybe so, but after reading this I doubt that very much:



legallyflying said:


> *you want tap envy? My base ppm is 16
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do envy you. My tap ppm is like 350. Best I can get after a tallboy and an R/O is 10ppm.

Yea Legal, you got this one in the bag. Nice try froggie.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 5, 2011)

Shit Froggie got scared and left the forums for good.


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## Mok (Mar 5, 2011)

So what do you use as a screen?


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## legallyflying (Mar 5, 2011)

Just made it out of PVC pipe and bailing wire.


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## legallyflying (Mar 7, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Shit Froggie got scared and left the forums for good.


Yeah come back to us frog. We're done kicking you in the teeth (well mostly).


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## legallyflying (Mar 7, 2011)

Well. Frog is apparently gone so I guess I win by default  

Seriously though. The mango is really close to being ready. I wish the jacks would speed up. They are all still white haired. I'll post some pics tonight


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 7, 2011)

Congrats Legally.


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## legallyflying (Mar 8, 2011)

Dude. Awesome!!


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## i<3 (Mar 8, 2011)

i wish i had that !!!!


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## xivex (Mar 8, 2011)

Lol. Poor frog. . Where is he?

X


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## cruzer101 (Mar 9, 2011)

Maybe he feels like he's "Needeep" in shit.


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## nugbuckets (Mar 9, 2011)

hoping for some colas shots soon "champ"


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## legallyflying (Mar 9, 2011)

I know. I cut one down yesterday just for the he'll of it. I'll take some close ups and what not tonight.


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## meezy4tw (Mar 9, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> I know. I cut one down yesterday just for the he'll of it. I'll take some close ups and what not tonight.


Lets see that sugar baby.


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## xivex (Mar 9, 2011)

Meezy gets +REP for the "army of darkness" reference! 

Shop smart, shop S-Mart!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 9, 2011)

damn froggy did bail, thats why you dont talk shit unless you can back it up.


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## legallyflying (Mar 9, 2011)

It does seem a little odd that he just up and disappeared. Check his profile, seems he hasn't logged in since the 3rd. I was interested to see what his yield was. Maybe he had some catastrophic failure or something? Maybe he is busy doing real world stuff? Anywho. fuck it, bring on the yumm yumm pictures... (they look plain ol' green in the first picture but i can assure you, they all look the bud I cut last night...) 
Got crystals?View attachment 1485197View attachment 1485198
View attachment 1485195
View attachment 1485196


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## meezy4tw (Mar 9, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> It does seem a little odd that he just up and disappeared. Check his profile, seems he hasn't logged in since the 3rd. I was interested to see what his yield was. Maybe he had some catastrophic failure or something? Maybe he is busy doing real world stuff? Anywho. fuck it, bring on the yumm yumm pictures... (they look plain ol' green in the first picture but i can assure you, they all look the bud I cut last night...)
> Got crystals?View attachment 1485197View attachment 1485198
> View attachment 1485195
> View attachment 1485196


Looking beautiful as always. How much longer till you chop? looks like they could use another week or so.


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## legallyflying (Mar 9, 2011)

A week may be a stretch. I'm planning on chopping this Saturday


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## meezy4tw (Mar 10, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> A week may be a stretch. I'm planning on chopping this Saturday


Nice. I'll be watching.


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## BluBerry (Mar 10, 2011)

*Looks good! Should be a good yield off of those. I sure hope all is well in Froggy* *Land.*


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## xivex (Mar 10, 2011)

Chop chop! 

X


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## legallyflying (Mar 10, 2011)

bump for bud shots


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## frogster (Mar 10, 2011)

Ya'll are giving out awards and congrats to Legal like you ejaculate... PREMATURE!!!! .. I had important issues to deal with,, up north... Girls are getting bigger... And In some weird way I think I may win one category..total Gram/watt , best flavor, most potent, anything other than smallest buds or some crap ..lol My son did forget to turn light sout one morning and walked in the house, it was 108 degrees ,,, hes texting me asking me why.... Im texting back,,, ugg, Lights on still in grow room,,, tep,,, welll it was only 85 in the room, and Im not worried about hermies this late to chopping, Im pretty sure im about two weeks out also,,, last rez change tonight... the sour diesels are so strong the new large carbon filter isnt able to contain these bad ladies... so, no visitors at my house for a couple weeks..lol...


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## frogster (Mar 10, 2011)

Oh, btw,,, nice comment Legal... funny, what spurred that response ???.. you need to give a link so we can get the skinny on his hostility..


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## frogster (Mar 10, 2011)

I will get some pics tonight at rez change... But looks like Im two weeks out,,, Maybe,,, I will get some really good close ups... My plants dont get as intense lighting as legals, so they could stand a bit longer than his... if they are putting on weight, im not chopping!! And I see they are still growing larger..


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## legallyflying (Mar 10, 2011)

FROGSTER LIVES!!! 

I think someone seriously thought your feelings were bruised. Good to hear they are still coming along. My Jack's still have at least another week, if not too. The shooting powder seems to delay ripening by a week or two. 

Best flavor and potency? Hmmm, sounds like we need to designate an impartial tester. I vote for xivex.

PS I'm not giving the trophy back!


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## newstrainnewrules (Mar 10, 2011)

hey in any competiton there are always 3 judges lol


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## legallyflying (Mar 10, 2011)

newstrainnewrules said:


> hey in any competiton there are always 3 judges lol


Good point. But I was going to send a pound to each judge, and I'm not sure frog can mange that.


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## newstrainnewrules (Mar 10, 2011)

well either way offering my impartial judging lol


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## meezy4tw (Mar 10, 2011)

Good to see frogster back here had us worried I think...lol
get some pics up so i can try and guess your yield, i guessed 3.2 for legal already lol


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## xivex (Mar 10, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> FROGSTER LIVES!!!
> 
> I think someone seriously thought your feelings were bruised. Good to hear they are still coming along. My Jack's still have at least another week, if not too. The shooting powder seems to delay ripening by a week or two.
> 
> ...


I graciously accept!  Thanks LF!

I'll happily test any samples sent to me..

LF you using that H&G Shooting powder now? What do ya think of it? Got it sitting in my cabinet for next round. Did ya cut your base nutes in half before using it or while running it?

X


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## legallyflying (Mar 10, 2011)

Yeah I cut in half at least. The shooting powder adds about 600ppms. Its expensive stuff but man I get such good yields with it, its hard to skip it. I think I just might next round but I'm flowering different strains so we will see how that goes. Shoot me a pm with your details.


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## 420L3GAL (Mar 10, 2011)

Great looking buds legal. Cant wait to see the next bunch. frogster wheres the pics at?


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## frogster (Mar 11, 2011)

Legal needs to send a pound to each judge? That shit must be weak... ,, those crystals must be all show and no go.. sorry you don't have more confidence in your potency legal... .. I guess at your age impotency sets in...


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## legallyflying (Mar 11, 2011)

Blah blah blah. The pictures sir....


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## frogster (Mar 11, 2011)

Did you mention Frosty?... mmmm... heres a few .. even with a bad phone camera these are looking yummy... Hey.. .thats my first smack talk in awhile, I deserve it after the TROPHY was prematurely awarded...... I have a true connoisseur close by (riddleme) for a fair, precise detailed scissor report...


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## frogster (Mar 11, 2011)

Meezy,, my canopy is so uneven there's no way I could even guess.. lol.. I have hidden bud underneath a lot of the canopy that cant be seen until I start digging and pushing stuff aside... The scrog are getting bigger, but the blueberry is at a stand still it appears... .. I just loaded a little extra heavy... not using shooting powder, but I doubled my ginourmous,,, same thing just half the ratio....


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## legallyflying (Mar 11, 2011)

looking good. I wanted to see a picture of the whole scrog. Or at least some picture to guess yield.


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## frogster (Mar 11, 2011)

yea, ihave some, but the camera phone just doesnt give an idea... I will try again this eve... I was looking back at my original journal and the plants ,, wow,, amazing how far they have come,,, and how much more comfortable I will feel on a new grow,,, i did find this snippit you wrote before we flipped...lol seems in a few areas , the race was won before it started,,, but thats ok,, looking back at these clones in the buckets , being only a few inches, and now what they are , I am thankfull for yours and everyones help and input,,, and Im a liitle proud of myself , but just little... heres your old post lol : "*In light of the scrog impending scrog off, I am unable to divulge information concerning, timing, strains and techniques. Lets just say this, I think my last grow may pale in comparison to what I have in store for this one. 
You don't have co2? I thought you did. SCROG off? This is going to be a like a prius vs dodge charger competition. LOL *


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## newstrainnewrules (Mar 11, 2011)

lol prius vs dodge charger good stuff


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## angelfish8706 (Mar 11, 2011)

do you guys mind if ask you a quick q. i was thinking of scrogging a few of my plants.


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## legallyflying (Mar 11, 2011)

sure dude.


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## angelfish8706 (Mar 11, 2011)

okay, so first off im grown in soil, but i'm thinking about practicing scrogging my plants and am wondering if doing them individually with something like tomato cages would be a good idea. also, the sig is amusing


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## legallyflying (Mar 11, 2011)

angelfish8706 said:


> okay, so first off im grown in soil, but i'm thinking about practicing scrogging my plants and am wondering if doing them individually with something like tomato cages would be a good idea. also, the sig is amusing


Hey, don't come in here with stupid questions. 

Tomato cages..no. They would be good for intial scrog training (as many big branches as you can get) but the final SCROG screen has to be horizontal.


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## angelfish8706 (Mar 11, 2011)

didnt realize it was a stupid question, but thanks for answering it anyway - i was wondering if it had to be horizontal.


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## legallyflying (Mar 11, 2011)

I was just shitting you. At least you didn't tell me to eat a giant dick. LOL

The biggest advantage of the SCROG system is that you can ensure (or attempt to) get a nice big even canopy. You do this by pulling the growing shoots under the screen and training them horizontally. There comes a point of diminishing returns however based on what kind of buds you want and the growth form of your plant. When you train horizontal the plant starts to send off all kinds of side branches. If your not carefull then things can turn into a scraggly mess. Its easier than it sounds and I am still perfecting my methods but I am definitely doing allot of training on my veggin plants to maximize the number of LARGE, EVEN stems sot hat I can get 5-6 whopper buds per plant. Each weighing at least 1 oz.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 11, 2011)

Woah, if anyone is gonna judge its gonna be me.


I am waiting for my pounds to arrive.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 11, 2011)

LOL, that hoagtech seems like a cool dude legally.


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## frogster (Mar 11, 2011)

The advantage of the scrog is the fact that the light can be lowered to give a nice even amount of light over the entire top,(only where bud sites are),, if you have a tree . the lower areas will not be getting as much as the top.. and the area on the lower budsites are cheated compared to the upper... with an even scrog light is used more efficiently and not wasted...you lose a lot of potential growing energy a few feet away from a light. reading a few scrog journals will help you understand this a little better...


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 11, 2011)

frogster said:


> The advantage of the scrog is the fact that the light can be lowered to give a nice even amount of light over the entire top,(only where bud sites are),, if you have a tree . the lower areas will not be getting as much as the top.. and the area on the lower budsites are cheated compared to the upper... with an even scrog light is used more efficiently and not wasted...you lose a lot of potential growing energy a few feet away from a light. reading a few scrog journals will help you understand this a little better...


To sum all of that up, there is no shade.


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## nugbuckets (Mar 11, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Hey, don't come in here with stupid questions.
> 
> Tomato cages..no. They would be good for intial scrog training (as many big branches as you can get) but the final SCROG screen has to be horizontal.


it was because he said soil....wasn't it.

thank god he didn't mention organic....wheww!


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## legallyflying (Mar 11, 2011)

Lol. I'm organic as well but just not in the arrogant, elite, every single thing has to be composted by virgins wearing flower head dresses kind of way. Soil is just fine with me I just would rather towel up water than sweep up dirt in the basement


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## frogster (Mar 12, 2011)

VIRGINS, VIRGINS,,, dint know I could do a head band wearing virgin grow... Im switching! heading straight to the hydro store in the a.m // YEA NUG, i saw that soil post and thought OH SHIT, here we go..lol Jimmb.. yea what he said.. no shade.lol... but Jim your trophy award and this comment "*damn froggy did bail, thats why you dont talk shit unless you can back it up." leads me to believe that you are a a secret closet fan of Legals... Its ok,, come out of the closet Jim... we are very accepting here... 
*


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## frogster (Mar 12, 2011)

Wait Jim,, its all shade!! lol,, going to confuse the shit out of the guy... the lower part of the floor under the scrog is "ALL" shade...


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## legallyflying (Mar 12, 2011)

frogster said:


> but Jim your trophy award and this comment "*damn froggy did bail, thats why you dont talk shit unless you can back it up." leads me to believe that you are a a secret closet fan of Legals... Its ok,, come out of the closet Jim... we are very accepting here...
> *


I think we are both waiting for those SCROG photos. Captain g/w.


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## tricka (Mar 12, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> I think we are both waiting for those SCROG photos. Captain g/w.


we all are legal!!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

frogster said:


> Wait Jim,, its all shade!! lol,, going to confuse the shit out of the guy... the lower part of the floor under the scrog is "ALL" shade...


 No I said there is no shade, you know when trees grow straight up and down they make lots of shade.

I thought it made complete sense.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

frogster said:


> but Jim your trophy award and this comment "*damn froggy did bail, thats why you dont talk shit unless you can back it up." leads me to believe that you are a a secret closet fan of Legals... Its ok,, come out of the closet Jim... we are very accepting here...
> *


Im not secret fan, I grow too so I just know whats up. Especially since I used to grow in dirt and wont ever go back.


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## frogster (Mar 12, 2011)

Ok,, heres a futile attempt at a shot,,,it really doesn't tell much,, the buds are getting bigger everyday now,,, its like they woke up! in one pic is a tied down bud,,, if you look close at that bud, you can see the hairs that are still growing... I would say that buds about13-16"


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## angelfish8706 (Mar 12, 2011)

thanks for the help guys,i didnt get to confused.just realized soil is for worms, bugs and dead people. and if you want to scrogg hydro is a better solution rite.


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## greentiger.sd (Mar 12, 2011)

sorry boys, I think I got you all beat. by the way why don't you guys LST more, grab a little bush master and toss the lame screens and stakes. If you do everything correctly you shouldn't need a screen or stakes. I know a lot of people might not agree with me here but check out what I'm talking about below, let me know if you got any questions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2VKwaVUgds


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## frogster (Mar 12, 2011)

Its a person decision... they both have advantages I suppose... hydro can be optimized better for extreme growers,, ie co2,max on the edge nute ppm , ,,, just gives more control. especially if you dial a specific strain after a few grows... every strain will like something a little different... "in general" hydro will produce bigger , plants faster than soil,,, but there are some soil guys that have things dialed in and produce very , very top shelf MMJ. (riddleme, daniels and many more on this site) But ignore the ignorant views that organic, etc is better flavor&safer, yadda-yadda.... plants require nutes (chemicals),,, and dont care if nitrogen comes from bat shit or a bottle... I see you started a journal, I will check it out... ask anything here, were easy... Legal just has a running kinda Joke thingy with dirt farmers who are ignorant ( ignorant=not knowing what the hell they are saying and are indignant about soil) so, welcome...


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## frogster (Mar 12, 2011)

Holy shit Green T... can you stand in the middle of those and knock a few off with a Golf club into my mouth from across the room,,, those tops are freaking cool as shit looking... I was lazy&inexperienced about my lst technique on the screen... I know I should have put more effort in getting things even... also my light over my scrog is not enough, especially at the ends.... but, its my first, and they live, so Im not going to be too hard on myself... how about posting a few still pic shots on tyhe thread and a rundown of your system... your buds are a worthy contender to strip Legal of that TROPHY!! lol.. but be warned , you may be required to "pass the scissors" for confirmation of your abilities..


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## frogster (Mar 12, 2011)

I dont know GT... they are tight, and are very pretty,, but Legals may outweigh those... lets hear a rundown on your setup( and I pray they are not soil..lol) lights, nutes, vegg time... strain,, co2? amount of plants and the area size?


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## newstrainnewrules (Mar 12, 2011)

and as stated earlier every type of competition has 3 judges,,, i think a web judging is in order for this lol


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## legallyflying (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm not trying to diss frog, but they didn't look that tight to me? I think it would be a light intensity thing.


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## frogster (Mar 12, 2011)

I agree Legal.. they are awesome, but they look like more light than yours.. and difficult to grasp tyhe size of the entire cola as they are hidden below... they seem more like a sog on steroids... thats why I asked for more specifics about his set up... i didnt mind him posting here, as I would like to see his results from his setup, but he does seem to be tooting his little horn with pics of these ladies around the forum in every post.. lol.. ( I almost cant blame him) BTW, check your pm,,,


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## frogster (Mar 12, 2011)

Newstrain, if you take that God awful pic down from your signature so I don't cringe&almost puke every time I read your post, I will confer to the powers that be about your desires...Pictures on this forum are for the beauty of the plants and that pic makes me dodge my screen, feeling like I will get saturated by flying puss from those pimples.... yuck!


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## frogster (Mar 12, 2011)

Ahh,heres a pic of him.. I see why he's tooting a little much on the forums .. Hes a " professional medical cannabis consulting guy" a collective in L.A and trying to be stealthy about it by posting...so, more than likely , these videos are of his "friends" grow room, or one of collective growers! .. lol.. Come back G.T ... your being called out... Let the fresh SMACK Talk begin! Jimbzz, doesn't take kind to smack talking and starting something you cant finish


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

frogster said:


> Newstrain, if you take that God awful pic down from your signature so I don't cringe&almost puke every time I read your post, I will confer to the powers that be about your desires...Pictures on this forum are for the beauty of the plants and that pic makes me dodge my screen, feeling like I will get saturated by flying puss from those pimples.... yuck!


 I agree that picture gives me the creeps, every time I see it im like methhead.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

frogster said:


> Ahh,heres a pic of him.. I see why he's tooting a little much on the forums .. Hes a " professional medical cannabis consulting guy" a collective in L.A and trying to be stealthy about it by posting...so, more than likely , these videos are of his "friends" grow room, or one of collective growers! .. lol.. Come back G.T ... your being called out... Let the fresh SMACK Talk begin! Jimbzz, doesn't take kind to smack talking and starting something you cant finish


I wasn't impressed by his grow looks like a out break of botrytis waiting to happen. I would get some more fans in there stat or at least give them a little breathing room.


Your growing bud not sneaking Mexicans over the border in a RV closet.


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## cruzer101 (Mar 12, 2011)

Hey Frogster, You came through with some shots. Nice man.
Yea I agree, a little more even canopy and a bit more lighting and that setup will rock.

I'm a novice grower, couple years indoor hydro with small scrogs. Picked up quite a bit here. Funny how you guys talk about soil grows, I recently went from hydro to soil when I built a small green house and I love it. I got a cabinet full of hydro nutes still, that sucks. But I'm getting more weight with soil.


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## greentiger.sd (Mar 12, 2011)

Wow, you guys are fast haha. frog, that's really awesome for a first round you should be proud for sure. 
But lets all back off a bit here's a short story and my horn totting: ) ok so I will definitely provide pics of dried beauties when my current batch is done. I apologize I don't have dry pics up at the moment or complete journals of crops as I came on to this forum before fully documenting a full round of anything I've been apart of or done myself. I grew up on being told never to document certain things so I post only what I feel comfortable with. 
Thus all videos/pics I will ever post are of a small area that includes vegging and flower. Believe it or not unless otherwise posted all flowering pics and videos are in one tent under one 1000, yes you read that right. It's a 4x8 with a raptor, great for the particular situation. This beautiful 1000 tent has been popping .5g to 1g per watt depending on the strain which have been, Jack Flash, G13, White Rhino, Lemon Kush, GDP, and Platinum Bubba.
This area is basically used for genetic testing to understand what the strain likes, if I like the strain, and then determining if I'll keep them and use them later breeding or productions. I would suggest everyone to consider having this type of test area if space is available and production/breeding is your game. This is also why you'll probably only see Grodan blacks and slabs from me as well.
I don't know if i really answered everything, there were a lot of comments. Oh, yea, LST, topping, and bushmaster, specifically for an even canopy. hit up my journal to learn more info about where i'm coming from. honestly i made an account because i'm tired of reading the BS, sometimes I think people are telling others the wrong stuff on purpose and although there are many ways of doing stuff, I'm sure you guys agree with me about some stuff. Anyways I'm starting to work on a detailed LST video/pic/log and will start to journal it soon. 
*ALWAYS look for pic/video references everyone, then decide what you what you're plants to look like.
*Let me know if I missed anything, wait, you guys totally will, what am I thinking...
With green love for you all,
kat; )


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## greentiger.sd (Mar 12, 2011)

After re-looking at the title of the original post, '...new school vs. old school...' I forgot to mention all my techniques are from norcal and particularly oakland california growers handed down over the years, so believe it or not I'm old school all the way. 
In production mode I usually have 12 ladies per 1000 by 4'x4' area....unless the circumstances are right and three1000's can be put over a 4'x8' area, this by far is optimum and idle for breaking the 2g/watt barrier.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

greentiger.sd said:


> Wow, you guys are fast haha. frog, that's really awesome for a first round you should be proud for sure.
> But lets all back off a bit here's a short story and my horn totting: ) ok so I will definitely provide pics of dried beauties when my current batch is done. I apologize I don't have dry pics up at the moment or complete journals of crops as I came on to this forum before fully documenting a full round of anything I've been apart of or done myself. I grew up on being told never to document certain things so I post only what I feel comfortable with.
> Thus all videos/pics I will ever post are of a small area that includes vegging and flower. Believe it or not unless otherwise posted all flowering pics and videos are in one tent under one 1000, yes you read that right. It's a 4x8 with a raptor, great for the particular situation. This beautiful 1000 tent has been popping .5g to 1g per watt depending on the strain which have been, Jack Flash, G13, White Rhino, Lemon Kush, GDP, and Platinum Bubba.
> This area is basically used for genetic testing to understand what the strain likes, if I like the strain, and then determining if I'll keep them and use them later breeding or productions. I would suggest everyone to consider having this type of test area if space is available and production/breeding is your game. This is also why you'll probably only see Grodan blacks and slabs from me as well.
> ...


We dont misinform people around here. I use to LST with plants in soil, and I would get maybe a ounce per plant. Now I scrog in hydro with one plant and I got over 10 ounces.


And if it were as easy as looking at a picture and growing exactly like that, everyone would be a expert.

Something just seems funny here. Or maybe its the Vicodin because I just had my tonsils out last Wednesday.


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## frogster (Mar 12, 2011)

Well said G.T.. thanks for the post... I suppose its "new school vs old" because I am using cheap weak ass MH through the entire grow... And somewhere , way back, before the scrogoff started I mentioned that this is what they used in the early 70's and that the shit is more potent given the same circumstances.. although less yield... (reality is, I didnt have $$ for better lights for my MH ballast,,, some hortilux blues would be ideal) So, Im just looking fior an excuse to be happy with what I have..lol JimBzz... he wasn't referring to us on the B.S part. Its why he created an account.. ,, SHADE! Lol .. I received a p.m from him about all the b.s on the site..


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

Yea im not good with pain killers, and im not able to smoke. I feel like crap I just took 30 min to eat a little cup of yogurt I feel pathetic.


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## frogster (Mar 12, 2011)

Cruzer... The pics really dont give an idea,, its a jungle in the middle... a layer of bud.. Your outdoor was spectacular, the damn mites had a field day at a few times... ... picking on soil growers is in fun, in my viewpoint.. Many on this forum cant grow a hydro plant near as good as a few soil growers can... Im using my hydro water straight from the rez to feed my lil soil ice cream plant,, And Im the most proud of her... I just initially added old crappy outside porch soil from a few seasons of flower baskets, and some fresh ewc.. and whalaa! lol


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## greentiger.sd (Mar 12, 2011)

I was talking about pictures and videos to back up what you're saying. glad you're laying down on your vicodin, grab your break out your vap bro....
To the rest of your comment, my LST techniques are not like all the lame videos out there, hence I will be posting a journal of this. Also have you considered that now going hydro changed maybe just a little bit of your situation? do you have no pics or journal going about all these trials and experiences? Also, my situation is not like everyone elses. I come from a larger production standpoint, not a cool one big lady in your closest fun run....I do not have time to build a bs screens on 6 to 10 plus trays, every f*ing time I flower...and if you can tell from my additude having to trim small bs popcorn buds makes me want to shoot myself, thus I'm all about big beautiful tops. If you LST properly you shouldn't need to use screens or stakes, period. 
Think about it, if you guys haven't seen pics like mine, this must mean not a lot of people know or use the techniques I use. And so is the same for the information I give that not everyone agrees with....
Also all my nutes and particular mix was handed down to me as well. My base is GH and I def use old school additives.
MH isn't the worst thing frog, like I said it looks great. Any pics big jim over there????; )


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## greentiger.sd (Mar 12, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Yea im not good with pain killers, and im not able to smoke. I feel like crap I just took 30 min to eat a little cup of yogurt I feel pathetic.


Your doc. lies to you, spark up the vap bro!

Edited in:
*also you guys keep referring me to a dude, haha I'm a girl; ) just fyi


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## uk420subscriber (Mar 12, 2011)

Your avater looks great greentiger!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

greentiger.sd said:


> I was talking about pictures and videos to back up what you're saying. glad you're laying down on your vicodin, grab your break out your vap bro....
> To the rest of your comment, my LST techniques are not like all the lame videos out there, hence I will be posting a journal of this. Also have you considered that now going hydro changed maybe just a little bit of your situation? do you have no pics or journal going about all these trials and experiences? Also, my situation is not like everyone elses. I come from a larger production standpoint, not a cool one big lady in your closest fun run....I do not have time to build a bs screens on 6 to 10 plus trays, every f*ing time I flower...and if you can tell from my additude having to trim small bs popcorn buds makes me want to shoot myself, thus I'm all about big beautiful tops. If you LST properly you shouldn't need to use screens or stakes, period.
> Think about it, if you guys haven't seen pics like mine, this must mean not a lot of people know or use the techniques I use. And so is the same for the information I give that not everyone agrees with....
> Also all my nutes and particular mix was handed down to me as well. My base is GH and I def use old school additives.
> MH isn't the worst thing frog, like I said it looks great. Any pics big jim over there????; )


 https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/375459-white-widow-waterfarm-1st-journal-10.html

Here is my journal have fun, I dont bullshit anyone. Its not white widow its coletrain ignore the title.

And I had a few buds that were 14grams is that big enough for you.

I also dont grow just for fun, I grow for my self.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

greentiger.sd said:


> Your doc. lies to you, spark up the vap bro!
> 
> Edited in:
> *also you guys keep referring me to a dude, haha I'm a girl; ) just fyi


I think I will listen to my DR. who went to medical school. 


You assume a awful lot about people I am guessing you are pretty young?


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## Danielsgb (Mar 12, 2011)

Time to dive into the shit talking.





You guys and your salty water.





Those are both nice grows.
But truly. I've tasted Hydro vs. Soil many times. Hands down the soil grown Cannabis tasted better.





Daniels


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## greentiger.sd (Mar 12, 2011)

Nice pics jim from all that I can find. honestly people save a couple of cost and put them in a journal for easy access for everyone. 14 grams is great, here's my ideal plant, I'll let you all do the math after knowing I typically run 12 ladies per 1000. So with all my topping, LST, nutes, love, etc. my girls each turn out with 10 to 12 tops, each top averaging 7g to 10g's. Of course this all depends on the genetics and how fast I need to start flipping for that particular situation. For example, this is not how big I let the girls go when Im starting out in a spot...ugh now you got me on a topic I don't know if I should finish.....


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

greentiger.sd said:


> Nice pics jim from all that I can find. honestly people save a couple of cost and put them in a journal for easy access for everyone. 14 grams is great, here's my ideal plant, I'll let you all do the math after knowing I typically run 12 ladies per 1000. So with all my topping, LST, nutes, love, etc. my girls each turn out with 10 to 12 tops, each top averaging 7g to 10g's. Of course this all depends on the genetics and how fast I need to start flipping for that particular situation. For example, this is not how big I let the girls go when Im starting out in a spot...ugh now you got me on a topic I don't know if I should finish.....


Thats great, I dont want to go to jail so I grow one plant at a time with a scrog and I get way more then i ever got before when I LST. I must be doing something wrong, maybe I should look at more pictures and say thats what I want and it will grow like that.........


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

And what you are doing is nothing new, so I really wouldn't feel that special inside.

There are some really good growers here and they dont go around telling everyone they are doing it wrong.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

And if you are a commercial grower, making a youtube channel and posting your operation probably isn't a good idea.

But I dont go around telling people what to do.


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## greentiger.sd (Mar 12, 2011)

First forgot my shout out to uk420.
Second, Daniel, send me your P.O. box, honestly, I use to feel the same way, but let me smoke you out. I haven't even touched on my sweets yet in the forums, yay!
Third, Jim have you read anything?? watch food matters, your doctors lie to you. I would give you my practitioners license number on here, but hello suicide. Food Matters, is the easiest way for me to explain what I'm talking about with the least amount of time. I would suggest slowing down, I didn't say *you're* giving out completely wrong advice. We are in two situations and even complimented you bro. I did say some people to give out shit though. I really don't mind answering any questions you have, but you are making a lot of assumptions about me and what I do.
Fourth and finally a very important point jim brought up. I will always be young enough to know that I will never be a Jedi, I thank all my teachers.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

And FYI my one plant had around 40 tops some were just a few grams but other were 14g anyways I got over 10 ounces off of one plant my first go at hydro with a 400w light. I expect even more next time, I thinks its hysterical you say 14g is great but your ideal nugs are 7-10g I mean what are you trying to say you dont like popcorn buds, but you also dont like monster buds. Its nice you have an idea of what your doing but your just trying to showoff and im not impressed.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

greentiger.sd said:


> First forgot my shout out to uk420.
> Second, Daniel, send me your P.O. box, honestly, I use to feel the same way, but let me smoke you out. I haven't even touched on my sweets yet in the forums, yay!
> Third, Jim have you read anything?? watch food matters, your doctors lie to you. I would give you my practitioners license number on here, but hello suicide. Food Matters, is the easiest way for me to explain what I'm talking about with the least amount of time. I would suggest slowing down, I didn't say *you're* giving out completely wrong advice. We are in two situations and even complimented you bro. I did say some people to give out shit though. I really don't mind answering any questions you have, but you are making a lot of assumptions about me and what I do.
> Fourth and finally a very important point jim brought up. I will always be young enough to know that I will never be a Jedi, I thank all my teachers.


I had a tonsillectomy Wednesday, and you are telling me to vaporize. IF my throat starts to bleed I have to go to the hospital tonsillectomy is not a simple surgery especially when you are an adult. 

I dont think food matters right now.

Why should I slow down, I didnt even know I was speeding up WTF exactly are you talking about. I come here to follow frogster and legally you showed up late to the party and started lecturing everyone about LST.




Im not even giving out advise you are, and we all know what were doing in this thread.


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## greentiger.sd (Mar 12, 2011)

yes basically, most clubs out here are going to break those fat buds down and the stems do start to add up, and they'll start bitching at you about stem weight etc. everyone can grow huge tops, like i've said before you're in a different situation. I believe no matter what anyone is doing they should be at the very least pulling .5g/watt and you definitely doing that so like I said, nice buds, take a compliment and smoke one.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

[video=youtube;g-m61Q_ARRo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-m61Q_ARRo[/video]

Yes vaporizing after this kind of a surgery is probably a great Idea.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

greentiger.sd said:


> yes basically, most clubs out here are going to break those fat buds down and the stems do start to add up, and they'll start bitching at you about stem weight etc. everyone can grow huge tops, like i've said before you're in a different situation. I believe no matter what anyone is doing they should be at the very least pulling .5g/watt and you definitely doing that so like I said, nice buds, take a compliment and smoke one.


Well as stated before I grow for myself, why you dont get that is beyond me.

Im not selling so I am not going to bitch at myself about stems, jesus christ whats your deal?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

greentiger.sd said:


> yes basically, most clubs out here are going to break those fat buds down and the stems do start to add up, and they'll start bitching at you about stem weight etc. everyone can grow huge tops, like i've said before you're in a different situation. I believe no matter what anyone is doing they should be at the very least pulling .5g/watt and you definitely doing that so like I said, nice buds, take a compliment and smoke one.


So you dont like 14g buds you like 7-10g buds. Ok lady Im sure your growing like you say you are.

Try not to get your buddy busted by posting his grow on youtube.


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## greentiger.sd (Mar 12, 2011)

bro I agree with you hit me up via private message if you want to talk. i dont have a problem with you, once again, our grows and experience are two different situations.....sorry legal, my bad.


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## rasputin71 (Mar 12, 2011)

thread hijack much?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

Does it really matter?


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## rasputin71 (Mar 12, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> This message is hidden because jimbizzzale67123 is on your ignore list.


This message is hidden because jimbizzzale67123 is on your ignore list.


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## xivex (Mar 12, 2011)

Damnt all this fucking chitty chat chat about non related stuff. If its not about pussy there shouldnt be this many men in here getting this worked up! And with this much chatter, it better be some damn good pussy. 

Lmao

X


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

rasputin71 said:


> This message is hidden because jimbizzzale67123 is on your ignore list.


LOL, you ignored me for no reason.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

Im sorry everyone that I cant sit their and let someone tell me I am doing it wrong, because I am growing 14g buds and not 7g buds. 

And because I grow for my own personal use, and choose to make the most of one plant instead of growing 12 plants.

And telling me over and over I am doing it wrong.

And that LST is better than SCROG when I started with LST and moved onto SCROG with amazing results.

Rasputin who the fuck r u too ignore me, that fuckin bitch keeps asking me to give her my P.O. box so she can send me some bud.

I would stay away from greentiger, something doesn't seem right.


Sometimes I dont even know why I come too this site anymore.

Its a site to share information, not to showoff and say look what I can do.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

xivex said:


> Damnt all this fucking chitty chat chat about non related stuff. If its not about pussy there shouldnt be this many men in here getting this worked up! And with this much chatter, it better be some damn good pussy.
> 
> Lmao
> 
> X


Im not worked up, just not going to let some arrogant chick lecture me about big buds and how she hates popcorn buds.

But 14g thats just too big. LMFAO tell me another joke.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

She thinks she is some proffesional grower/teacher that is soem inovator and no one on here grows like her.

Here is a direct quote from one of her journals.

"With that, it is easy to see not only why there are not many pictures or videos like mine, but also why my advice might not be what everyone else is throwing out there. Feel free to comment or contact me with any questions. Happy tokin'!"

Im sorry but she is not the only one growing like this on this site, and Im not going to sit back and let her make such ludicrous claims.

Sorry I call BS as soon as I smell it.

Anyone that says such stupid ass shit deserves to be called out. I learned everything I know from this site, and I have seen many grows exactly like hers.

Its nothing special.


This is SCROG OFF 2011 not LST off 2011.


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## xivex (Mar 12, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Im not worked up, just not going to let some arrogant chick lecture me about big buds and how she hates popcorn buds.
> 
> But 14g thats just too big.



Just do what i do...tell her not to worry because she can take it and assure her that youll make it fit! 

X


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

Ive been on this site since 08, and I am getting called out by someone that joined in 2011 WTF.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

xivex said:


> Just do what i do...tell her not to worry because she can take it and assure her that youll make it fit!
> 
> X


LOL, that brightened my day.


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## legallyflying (Mar 12, 2011)

Ummm thanks for douching up my grow journal. Go to the advanced forum and spread all your wonderful knowledge, I mean really..

You have a lst'd SOG. Ok. BFD. Your numbers don't add up to "2grams/watt" but at any rate your method doesn't apply to me. Period. 
I'm a legal medical grower and I can only have 12 flowering plants at a time. So for me, it makes sense to spread them out via SCROG because I have 8 weeks to veg them. And again, I hate all those little popcorn 10 gram buds. Fuck that. My biggest bud last round was 217 grams. Looks like I will have at least 13-14 of those this round. 
Snip snip, hang, done. 

Thanks for stopping by but I don't think anyone here asked for your so called "enlightenment"


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## legallyflying (Mar 12, 2011)

Lmao. You know what I did with all the 14g buds on my last grow? Stripped them all off with a gloved hand and made bubble hash with them 

Xivex, you and I may be very similar. Many a time have a chanted "just relax, I'll take it slow"


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## angelfish8706 (Mar 12, 2011)

wow!!!!217 gramer i dont care what anyone says. thats bragging rites fosho


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 13, 2011)

Sorry Legally if I went off to much on her, shit just had me pissed off. I hope you didn't think I junked ur thread up, I can go off sometimes I have a bit of a temper and Im even more annoyed now cause I cant smoke.

Carry on showing us those beautiful 2-litter bottle sized buds.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 13, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Ummm thanks for douching up my grow journal. Go to the advanced forum and spread all your wonderful knowledge, I mean really..
> 
> You have a lst'd SOG. Ok. BFD. Your numbers don't add up to "2grams/watt" but at any rate your method doesn't apply to me. Period.
> I'm a legal medical grower and I can only have 12 flowering plants at a time. So for me, it makes sense to spread them out via SCROG because I have 8 weeks to veg them.  And again, I hate all those little popcorn 10 gram buds. Fuck that. My biggest bud last round was 217 grams. Looks like I will have at least 13-14 of those this round.
> ...


217g wont impress her, remember her ideal bud weight is 7-10g.

She doesn't fuck around growing monsters like you legally. Just average sized buds, but no popcorn buds.


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## legallyflying (Mar 13, 2011)

I should offer a clarification. The 220 bud was wet weight. It came out to 1.86 ounces dry. So not a monster by single cola plant standards but I pulled another 4+ ounces off that guy. 

Selectively harvested the top mangoes. My hands are sticky I'm tired but Christ my home theater smells yummy!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 13, 2011)

Man, there isnt enough rubbing alcohol around after trimming I swear that stuff never comes off. 

And if you are packing up bowls like me its even worse.


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## angelfish8706 (Mar 13, 2011)

wet or not bro that is still props to you. my bigest bud was a ounce at the most wet.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 13, 2011)

that is a monster bud, I wouldn't even want to break it apart.

I would just mount it in a display case like museums use.


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## Dick Moser (Mar 13, 2011)

Bullshit thread jacking losers!!!!!! I just wasted like 15 minutes reading all your stupid bullshit, i hope that tonsillectomy got infected as fuck!!!!!!!!!! and im quite glad to see the updates from the frog, moving in leaps and...hops???? cause you got to be drunk as FUCK to think you are still in the running....i thought (im not trying to pretend like i know it all) that in a CLASSIC old school origanl scrog all the large "shadeing" fan leaves got pulled and yours is still looking jungley as fuck. if your running with the halides then even small sugar leaves would be recivieng enough blue light to synthesize and produce growth i would imagine and in that case the extra leaves are really causeing a massive amount of shading for lower limbs (as i believe you where complaining about) i.e. "if you move some of this huge bush theres acually some sweet smelling virgin va-ganja bulbs hidden in there" im just trying to constructively criticize...or at least criticize....hope i didnt dissapoint.  good luck ladies, and stay medicated.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 13, 2011)

Dick Moser said:


> Bullshit thread jacking losers!!!!!! I just wasted like 15 minutes reading all your stupid bullshit, i hope that tonsillectomy got infected as fuck!!!!!!!!!! and im quite glad to see the updates from the frog, moving in leaps and...hops???? cause you got to be drunk as FUCK to think you are still in the running....i thought (im not trying to pretend like i know it all) that in a CLASSIC old school origanl scrog all the large "shadeing" fan leaves got pulled and yours is still looking jungley as fuck. if your running with the halides then even small sugar leaves would be recivieng enough blue light to synthesize and produce growth i would imagine and in that case the extra leaves are really causeing a massive amount of shading for lower limbs (as i believe you where complaining about) i.e. "if you move some of this huge bush theres acually some sweet smelling virgin va-ganja bulbs hidden in there" im just trying to constructively criticize...or at least criticize....hope i didnt dissapoint.  good luck ladies, and stay medicated.


Hmm, I have no beef with you but you wish a nasty infection on me? You must be a real big POS to say something so ignorant.

And why would you read it, if it was such a waist of time.

I am a big believer in Karma so when shit goes south you will remember why.

Thanks for being a asshole, as if their aren't enough on this site, I dont think anyone wants your opinion in this thread.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 13, 2011)

Im not even coming around this place anymore, why cause myself any extra stress.

Good luck legally, I wish you the best I cant deal with these idiots anymore.

This site is a joke, and riddled with arrogant shit talking growers that think they are the best grower in the world.


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## newstrainnewrules (Mar 13, 2011)

hey man dont let some douche run you off here, theres people like this all the time they come and go, hes prolly already grounded and sittin in his room masturbating using his own tears as lube


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 13, 2011)

Your right bro, sometimes I feel crazy because I try and do the right thing and then some dipshit comes around and says something even more stupid.

And what is all of this threadjacking talk, is that not what the threads are for.


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## newstrainnewrules (Mar 13, 2011)

thats what i was thinking, if any1 can call thread jacking it would legal and frog, some kids just get on here and think there gonna see nothing but bud porn i guess, they dont realize its from start to finish and this a community where some friends have actually been made threw this thread so just ignore stupid ppl there always gonna be around


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## legallyflying (Mar 13, 2011)

If only you had the power to deleate posts in a thread you started. "dick" your certainly living up to your namesake. Jim didn't hijack. Mrs "nice thread but this is the "real" way to grow" did. Jim didn't say anything to you now your wishing a nasty infection on him? 

I too am growing tired of this site and all the shit heads. I've gleaned what I need to know already and have other means to seek out knowledge I'm tired of dealing with those that can't take advice. That asshole in my signature, he read on a website somewhere that 75 was the highest temperature you should experience. I told him that it wasn't, as did others but Noooo, he simply had to insist that we were all full of shit and that my 85 degree flower room was going to cause leaf dye off, root rot, and pests. 

I got news for you all. Growing weed is stupid easy. The available nutrients are top notch and every piece of hardware out there to create the ideal environment is sold everywhere. People need to research plants and THEN research ideal MJ growing conditions. Then there wouldn't be statements like "your plants need fresh air, especially at night". Why? Plants are absorbing oxygen at night, oxygen they produced during the day. 

At any rate, thanks to those that managed to some how turn a tounge in cheek grow journal between two fellow growers into some kind of bitch fest. The idea was to compare different methods and pass along some helpful growing advice. I think that frog learned quite a bit this round and will do much better on the next. I can't really say that I gleaned a bunch of new info from this thread but I did enjoy knowing that some people were following along in the spirit of "grower brotherhood". I feel that Jim's posts on the defensive side were meant to enforce that commradierie, not tear it down as others have.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 13, 2011)

Well said legally, sometimes I fell crazy here.


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## xivex (Mar 13, 2011)

All aboard the frog and LF scrog train! Chugga chugga chugga chugaa choooooo choooo!

Lmao 

X


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## nugbuckets (Mar 13, 2011)

some bud porn would be nice, maybe right this mutha-fuckin' ship...........


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## frogster (Mar 14, 2011)

Lol... shit getting steamy in here.... ! Been gone a few days again.... scrog getting bigger and bigger... supercropped side getting the absolute fuck eaten out if it by mites.... I covered the scrog up and lite the fuckers up with Japanese nuclear radiation..... I'm going to check into dicks leaf suggestion... jimbzz... damn... I think I would be hitting something if my throat looked like that! Ouch!....


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 14, 2011)

frogster said:


> Lol... shit getting steamy in here.... ! Been gone a few days again.... scrog getting bigger and bigger... supercropped side getting the absolute fuck eaten out if it by mites.... I covered the scrog up and lite the fuckers up with Japanese nuclear radiation..... I'm going to check into dicks leaf suggestion... jimbzz... damn... I think I would be hitting something if my throat looked like that! Ouch!....


 Frogster you are officially a idiot.


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## JimBro (Mar 14, 2011)

What's up with all these fuckers junking up this thread? I thought that's what I was lurking around for. Seriously dig the new signature, LF. Gotta find that original thread. 

I know all the douches around here get annoying, but douches like me appreciate all the advice offered in threads like this one. So thanks, for whatever it's worth.

Frog, sorry about your bug problems. I guess that's one bonus (maybe the only one) of growing in a cab - no bugs!


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## legallyflying (Mar 14, 2011)

JimBro said:


> What's up with all these fuckers junking up this thread? I thought that's what I was lurking around for. Seriously dig the new signature, LF. Gotta find that original thread.
> 
> I know all the douches around here get annoying, but douches like me appreciate all the advice offered in threads like this one. So thanks, for whatever it's worth.


Ya know, I enjoy helping people and all but seriously, this site just seems so fucking full of trolls that argue just to argue I'm very seriously considering just walking away from it all and doing something more rewarding with my time. I've made several "friends" on here. Friends that I will never sit down and have a beer or show my plants to... I mean fuck it. I don't need the positive reinforcement of posting big bud pictures and I'm a little too mature (but not by much) to be involved in internet debates. 

You should need a fucking password to POST in the advanced forum.


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## xivex (Mar 14, 2011)

Guys i love you all! Yes even you frog! . Lol. Thx for helping me LF. your my e-friend too bro! 


Goin to smoke some lsd bubble i pulled last night! Wish i had better camera too...

X


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## xivex (Mar 14, 2011)

Yo LF clear some pm space bro. Got something to send!

X


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## Dick Moser (Mar 14, 2011)

peace, love, and micro dot........i am sorry i hit someones sore spot  i just thought its what its not and got a little hot to trot. but what eva. to regress slightly to somthing i find meaning ful, i keep my rooms hot during they day (sometimes but not often hitting ninty) and let it get colder at night to simulate more outdoor conditions (sometimes to 60) but you seem to have a sealed rooms do you let it flucate temp or keep it hot all the time???? and in running hydro do the higher temps affect rh% at all???? i have been subbed for about ???20??? pages and havent noticed an answer to those questions but if they have been ill reread....

legally


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## legallyflying (Mar 14, 2011)

Temperature is probably the most important aspect of your grow room. It controls the metabolism of the plant. (one of the things anyways, but the most dominant thing).

Ideal plant conditions with CO2..
Day time up to 90 but I have my ceiling set at 87. high temps and low humidity (flowering) is really hard on plants. The less the difference in day/night the better. With my de-hu running it gets to like 79 in there. Getting below 70 at night will slow down the metabolism of the plant which sloes down everything. So in essence, don't let it get below that. Night time is a VERY important time for plants. Also, cooler temps at night creates stretching plants and nobody wants that. 

Higher temps and humidity with hydro. Probably, high temps means faster metabolism and high transpiration and therefore more water vapor in the air. 

Without Co2.
Co2 is the first limiting factor as metabolism increases. When the temps get above 76 or so and you have strong lights the plants want to do everything faster but they can't..cause they can't "breathe" because there is not enough Co2 in the air. So photosynthesis slows down. I don't know if it cycles back and forth or it jsut slows down by I suspect the former. Kind of sputtering in fits and starts. The co2 in the leaf boundary layer is depleated, photo stops, it is replenished, and it starts again. 

ok? ok.


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## frogster (Mar 14, 2011)

I was joking about "hitting." It.... good grief....... just had one plant never completely bug free.... and got out of control being gone.... young tadpole didn't notice.... they are dead now........ I'm going to flood all plants but 6... I will cut these and revegg. Under a new screen. (bigger holes) and put them in center of too... will add larger lower buckets , and put both lights over them.... and get the right lights.... shooting for 6 10oz plants... even canopy.. and well trimmed and spaced out....


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## legallyflying (Mar 14, 2011)

What did you kill the spider mites on your almost mature buds with? 

10oz per plant on a reveg? Are you currently stoned/drunk? it's going to take a month before that start to veg again.


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## legallyflying (Mar 14, 2011)

JimBro said:


> You have to have a closed room for co2 to be effective, right? My setup has an exhaust fan running 24/7, so the co2 would not be in the grow space for very long. Not long enough to be of any real benefit is my thought.


I'm not going to answer that.


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## frogster (Mar 14, 2011)

50/50 alcohol& water,,, hosed them down,,, will do this every few days.... works immediatly on live fuckers..I read a few places , revegg, about 14-17 days,, will read up more.... well, I may get a few decent clones,,, but decent clones are difficult to find!... everyone sells you their shit clones... I for sure want less plants and the ability to get all around the screen. So I was thinking of building a new screen in center of room and using less plants... and maximizing the 1000watters..with better bulbs...uuuhhh,,, similar to someone elses grow room that puts out pretty good results..


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 14, 2011)

Dick Moser said:


> peace, love, and micro dot........i am sorry i hit someones sore spot  i just thought its what its not and got a little hot to trot. but what eva. to regress slightly to somthing i find meaning ful, i keep my rooms hot during they day (sometimes but not often hitting ninty) and let it get colder at night to simulate more outdoor conditions (sometimes to 60) but you seem to have a sealed rooms do you let it flucate temp or keep it hot all the time???? and in running hydro do the higher temps affect rh% at all???? i have been subbed for about ???20??? pages and havent noticed an answer to those questions but if they have been ill reread....
> 
> legally


Is this English?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 14, 2011)

frogster said:


> 50/50 alcohol& water,,, hosed them down,,, will do this every few days.... works immediatly on live fuckers..I read a few places , revegg, about 14-17 days,, will read up more.... well, I may get a few decent clones,,, but decent clones are difficult to find!... everyone sells you their shit clones... I for sure want less plants and the ability to get all around the screen. So I was thinking of building a new screen in center of room and using less plants... and maximizing the 1000watters..with better bulbs...uuuhhh,,, similar to someone elses grow room that puts out pretty good results..


 You may be getting some mold too.


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## frogster (Mar 15, 2011)

chop, chop.... I chopped the supercropped side... the mites did too much damage to the lower part , and the buds were looking close,, and not growing.... I have recieved the experience of popcorn bud(like I wanted) and will never allow this to happen again,,lol,, I have plenty to make hash out of... Heres a few pics,, one of the larger plants i hung on the left with no trimming to buds (last picture , one plant),,, the leaves on the buds were damn near solid crystals.... its difficult in the pic to see all the buds,,, most are tight and firm, a few are airy... not many.... I would be happy if this is 1 lb,,, seems like it will fill a gallon ziplock or a little more when the trimming is finished? looking for a few guesses .. ? The scrogg is going to far exceed this yield,, its still growing, and Im putting both lights over it tommorow... Jimbzz, chill out bro,, "Happy Thoughts" on the thread from on out please.... Thx


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 15, 2011)

And the winner is.......



























LegallyFlying come on down and get your prize.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 15, 2011)

Frogster is gonna be pissed.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 15, 2011)

You know I cant smoke frogster, how can I chill out. I cant wait maybe like three more days im gonna try the vaporizer and see how bad it hurts.


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## xivex (Mar 15, 2011)

When I had all 4 of my wisdom teeth cut out and they told me not to smoke, because the suction could create dry-socket for me, I just had a friend shotgun me blunt hits while barely inhaling. That way I COULD actually smoke, but didn't have any of the negative side effects of smoking after wisdom teeth are cut-out, ie dry-socket. Might give that a try Jim.

X


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm too scared too, with a tonsillectomy they litteraly take a laser and burn the tonsils off they end up creating these disgusting scabs and you have to be careful not to cough or try and clear your throat because something that simple can cause them to bleed. They are right next to some maina rteries so the bleeding can become so bad that people have actually died from it(they were probably ignorant as hell) but still I don't want to end up in the hospital. I fucking hates hospitals usually I would take the chance but I always cough my nuts off, you would think I was some kind of amateur its just been like that all my life.


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## legallyflying (Mar 15, 2011)

I want pictures of your tonsil scabs!!!


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## frogster (Mar 15, 2011)

WINNER??? FUCK.. thats not my scrog!!! .. lol,,, but yea,, I conceded along time ago... any guesses on weight for whats in the picture? doing a 5 day slow dry, then chucking it in a cooler over dry ice...


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## legallyflying (Mar 15, 2011)

Looks good frogster! They definitely look big and chunky which is always nice. I'm horrible at guessing yield. I think I pulled about 1.5 lbs from the tops of my mangos. Still waiting for the jacks to mature and I'm letting the lower mango darken and mature while I wait. I'll try to take a picture of my drying area. Aka "the bat cave"


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 15, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> I want pictures of your tonsil scabs!!!


IF you want them ill post them.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 15, 2011)

I cant get a picture, I tried and I couldn't open wide enough. You can use Google images to see it, its pretty much white bumpy crap where the tonsils where. Its fucking disgusting you cant knock it off or they will bleed they have to fall off on their own, and guess where they go into my tummy YUM.....


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## frogster (Mar 15, 2011)

Yes, the blueberry are very dense... The one big bud was the biggest,, it was against the wall, i couldn't imagine what it would have done in the center... So, I have a ton of leaves and popcorn,,, considering its infested in with mites,, I threw it in an ice chest, filled it with water and left it outside untill i figure out what to do with it,,, honey oil or get a buddy to do bubble bag hash...


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 16, 2011)

UMMMMMMMM, Blueberry..........................

I need to grow that bitch, but I always hear she is fickle with nutrients. Anyone know of a good strain that is stable and easy to feed that has some blueberry in her.


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## legallyflying (Mar 16, 2011)

Don't know about blueberry but a friend showed me some dried blackberry buds. Holly shit. Dark purple leaves covered in resin. It was one of the most beautiful buds ive seen


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 16, 2011)

Yea, I heard the taste is something every weed connoisseur should experience in their lifetime.

Looks like something that needs to go on my bucket list.


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## xivex (Mar 16, 2011)

The blackberry i had wasnt very potent. But it did taste and smell great. Also had blackberry kush. Was similar.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 16, 2011)

Ummm, Berry anything is cool with me.

This dude posted a pic of some Grapefruit Diesel Im gonna get some of that, let me find it and I will post it.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 16, 2011)

Grapefruit Diesel grown by our fellow RIU'er Phyzix I was in love as soon as I saw the picture.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 16, 2011)

The douschbags leave the thread and we get right on track.


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## xivex (Mar 16, 2011)

Yeah Phyzix's Grapefruit Diesel does look tasty Jim!  The stuff I had was certainly tasty, just was kinda weak...


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## legallyflying (Mar 16, 2011)

Yeah, I heard that the blackberry wasn't super knockout powerful. Haven't tried it as I'm not a huge smoker but I'll tell you what, I had some organic grown hydro headband the other day and I was fucking high as a mother fucker off a single little toke. My wife was like "grow that!, grow that, can you grow that? where do you get that?" 

Way ahead of you hunny, got 4 mothers I popped from seeds 3 weeks ago.


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## cruzer101 (Mar 16, 2011)

I hear ya man, I been smoking on some Casey Jones and Bubba Kush from last summer then the headband was done. Wow, awesome high. Not a powerful as the others in regards to expando, didn't make me cough but what a rush! 

I grew one in soil and 5 in hydro. the one in soil has more of a woodsy taste, girls in hydro have more of a chemical taste but both work the same. Because of the smaller yield I would think you would wanna grow this for personal though. That's what I did anyway.

I got a question for ya Legal. I read your post on metabolism and it made sense but this last winter grow I experienced the opposite when it came to stretch, they didnt seem to stretch much at all compared to all my indoor grows and I really liked that. Day temps ran mid to high 50"s over night mid 40's I thought it was because of the cold temps. Now I dont know, What do you suppose could have caused that? It sure would be nice to be able to re create that and do it again in the future without adding anything. If you would like more details on the grow I kept records, Its at the end of my first greenhouse journal.


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## legallyflying (Mar 16, 2011)

Hmmm, I'm not sure what would have caused that. The only time I experienced allot of stretch was when my veg tent was getting cool at night. Not super cool, like 70, maybe 67 but they sure did get leggy. Did some poking around and found several references to low night time temps causing stretch. I think that the lower temps, combined with no supplemental CO2 during that veg cycle resulting in the stretch I observed. Unfortunately my knowledge of night time activity needs some work. I can't for the life of me figure out why a cooler environment would cause more stretch. Form a metaolbism stand point, you would think higher temps would cause increased growth rates.

I guess this is a long winded way of saying I dunno.


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## cruzer101 (Mar 16, 2011)

Well, thanks for kickin it around. Maybe the difference was swing in temps. Your indoor grow where it got cool at night probably warmed up quite a bit when the lights went on where mine kept cool during the day cycle. Who knows. 

So, How about some sticky time pics? You chop yet?


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## legallyflying (Mar 16, 2011)

I chopped maybe 30% of the plants. been crazy with work lately. I thought I posted a picture here but couldn't find it the other day. 
Bud shot of the mango 5 days before I took her down.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 16, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> Yeah, I heard that the blackberry wasn't super knockout powerful. Haven't tried it as I'm not a huge smoker but I'll tell you what, I had some organic grown hydro headband the other day and I was fucking high as a mother fucker off a single little toke. My wife was like "grow that!, grow that, can you grow that? where do you get that?"
> 
> Way ahead of you hunny, got 4 mothers I popped from seeds 3 weeks ago.


 Yea I got two seeds for Reserva Privada, is that what you got Legally. I read some controversy about how RP's isn't the "Real" HeadBand but I like their Coletrain so I know they have legit genetics.

I read they dont yield that much either, I am curious to know if they do. If anyone can turn them into monster buds its you, so do me a favor and prove everyone that says it doesn't yield much wrong.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 16, 2011)

cruzer101 said:


> Well, thanks for kickin it around. Maybe the difference was swing in temps. Your indoor grow where it got cool at night probably warmed up quite a bit when the lights went on where mine kept cool during the day cycle. Who knows.
> 
> So, How about some sticky time pics? You chop yet?


I read somewhere that big swings in temps can cause stretching, I dont know the science behind it though.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 16, 2011)

That mango looks tasty, great work.


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## C Moore (Mar 16, 2011)

I'm growing 22 of Barneys Farm LSD Feminized, using two 16 Plant site Superpoinc Systems (11 on each System) Using One 1,000 Watt HID Light, but My question is do I really need to use the SCROG Screen method. Or can I grow all 22 plants without it. If so what are the benefits of using The SCROG method? Here's a link to the hydro Superponics systems that I'm Using check out an give much feedback "Help", and suggestions as possible!!! 
http://www.supercloset.com/index.php...t&m=index&d=36


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## xivex (Mar 16, 2011)

Those mango look awesome LF?


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## legallyflying (Mar 16, 2011)

That whole "legit" debate is almost as stupid as "clone only". How do you start a strain by cloning only? 

Given our state's lack of dispensaries and the price via demand that it brings to the table, if it doesn't yield it's history. I'm not a yield whore or anything but a guy has to keep the lights on. 

I have heard good and bad on yield for HB


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 17, 2011)

Yea I only grow one at a time, so I kinda have to be a yield whore.

I know people get so crazy with the whole its not "legit" crap. Their was a whole thread about the headband somewhere on here where people were going crazy claiming its not "legit" like somehow its not good weed.

If its dank its dank.


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## frogster (Mar 17, 2011)

cmore, you didnt specifically state the superbox you have,,, but they are all limited by height and space,,, I would just vegg for a very short time (30% of your total light height ),, and go for a single large cola... like a large sog... trim the lower branches ... you should do fine...


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 17, 2011)

frogster said:


> cmore, you didnt specifically state the superbox you have,,, but they are all limited by height and space,,, I would just vegg for a very short time (30% of your total light height ),, and go for a single large cola... like a large sog... trim the lower branches ... you should do fine...


whats a superbox?


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## legallyflying (Mar 17, 2011)

I dated a super box in college. Bummer you haven't experienced one yet


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 17, 2011)

legallyflying said:


> I dated a super box in college. Bummer you haven't experienced one yet


So I can stick my dick in a superbox?


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## phyzix (Mar 17, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> So I can stick my dick in a superbox?


Absolutely.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 17, 2011)

Im curious to find out more about this superbox.


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## frogster (Mar 22, 2011)

Damn sour diesel are still growing.... I doubt more than another week? Will start selectively chopping.... few look about ready..will break out the micro ... Theres one blueberry in there ... every bud fat and tasty....


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## frogster (Mar 22, 2011)

Smoke report coming soon from a local.... shit dried out way to fast in closet.... no mold Jim.....


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## legallyflying (Mar 22, 2011)

Just a brief update: buds are all around 57% humidity so I did a little weigh in. I harvested a total of 6 out of the 12 plants. Basically all the mangos. The jack herrer have the MONSTER +1.5 oz buds on them but at this point, the total mango harvest (and these are "marketable buds", not super fluffy no trich buds): *34 oz. *


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## frogster (Mar 24, 2011)

Started chopping scrog.... wow....pics coming ...


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## legallyflying (Mar 24, 2011)

what was the yield on the LST side of things?


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## tremend00oo (Mar 24, 2011)

we need more friendly competition grows like these,,, it was fun to read all through it... frogger props to you for your 1st grow specially in a challenge.. and legal... who knows what you could do if you had an opportunity for a bigger set up .. good stuff ;o)


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## frogster (Mar 25, 2011)

Thx, tremendoo.. Ok, they are all chopped,,, oh my!! these girls are so much better than the other side,,, I will let the pictures speak for themselves...


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## frogster (Mar 25, 2011)

And here are a few more closer shots... these are fairly dense... the pic with the lighter is one plant... and the little ice cream plant is soaking in the dark in water for a couple days.. seems like my yield will be double of the other side? we'll see soon..


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## legallyflying (Mar 25, 2011)

looking good


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## newstrainnewrules (Mar 26, 2011)

is there gonna be a rematch with the scrog off or another form of competition?? With outdoor season fast approaching is there gonna be a single site competition?


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## Dick Moser (Mar 26, 2011)

^^^^start one???? i mean, right????


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## newstrainnewrules (Mar 26, 2011)

Im down for it on the outdoor grow, any rules or guidlines to follow?


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## xivex (Mar 26, 2011)

Frog,

Those look pretty nice man. Congrats! You should be proud! We all knew LF was gonna win, but you took a solid 2nd place mate!~ 

Nice buds.

X


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## legallyflying (Mar 26, 2011)

All I'm really looking for is the chicken wire was a horrible idea confession . Still have to get final weights. Looking around 5.5oz per plant for the mango. I have to think the jacks will yield 6 plus but only time will tell. 66oz total would be awesome. That would be over a gram/watt. But we will see, I don't see it happening


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## frogster (Mar 29, 2011)

well... looking better each day,,, drying still, slower than last time.. looking more than double the supercropped side... my horse is coming from behind on the gram per watt... it may be a closer finish than what I anticipated, if im within 20% of your gpw (pics!) I will be very pleased .hell, I am pleased no matter what.. the chicken wire was ok, it did its job, I had limited funds and it was cheap and what i could afford at the time.. but yes, I will switch to a bigger hole size next time... lesson learned... also will do less plants that I can fully trim from below... I learned alot this grow... figuring out plans for next grow, may be awhile, working on my lighting system .... speaking of Legal, shoot me a P.M


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## frogster (Mar 29, 2011)

hmm. lower frosty small buds , not popcorn. pushing over 6oz. dried..I was shocked. this is getting interesting,,,also have a hell of alot of trich. covered smaller stuff not counting thats going into butter for caramels and cookies, etc... ..24-29 oz total frosty trich covered buds? ... we'll see..... im in for an outdoor... going to kinda follow cruzers set up that he had for his greenhouse... An auto drip will b pretty cool... lets get a few catagories&rules going.. Title first "2011 OUTDOOR SOIL THROWDOWN" I will take the honors of starting the thread if no one objects...


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## newstrainnewrules (Mar 29, 2011)

sounds good to me frog, what are some rules or guidelines to follow? Are we goin for max height? max yeild? largest area covered with 1 plant? theres just so many different ways to go with this 1, is there gonna be strain restraints?


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## frogster (Mar 29, 2011)

seems like a free for all to me... but the true win should go to most weight regardless of strain,,, I see some pretty freaking big trees com9ing up... damn I better get to planting!!! will start a thread tomorrow


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## cruzer101 (Mar 30, 2011)

I'd be up for it if there was a space restraint. FDD I am not.
8 by 12 sounds good to me!


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## legallyflying (Mar 30, 2011)

I think the rule is you should finish the first competition thread before starting another. Total weights there froggy?


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## frogster (Mar 30, 2011)

Well,,, 25 oz,, thats including very smokable nice lower bud, and im guestimating on what whas ripped off... but oh my,,, butter galore!! i have been putting in 4-6 oz per lb of butter,,, I think its too strong! well see.... I have cooked 7lb of butter,, and its way, way dank... I saved all the green water and will run fresh butter through it as I believe my butter is so saturated that it couldnt take anymore thc... I need to find a test rat for sampling ( I have a few, thx for the offers though) .... dont want my candy and brownies to flat knock someones dick in the dirt and put them to sleep...


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## Dick Moser (Mar 30, 2011)

how many plants??? thiefs should lose a hand, a nut or an eye, let them choose.


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## frogster (Mar 30, 2011)

damn Cruzer,,, I dont think we are going to grow a plant larger than a 8x12ft footprint... I think the rules are for a single plant... but by all means grow multiple, even strains,,, the best single plant i believe is the goal...


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## frogster (Mar 30, 2011)

Ok, heres the title, its posted under outdoor grow, let the games begin 
*"2011 OUTDOOR TREE of LIFE THROWDOWN" link https://www.rollitup.org/outdoor-growing/421386-2011-outdoor-tree-life-throwdown.html*


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## legallyflying (Mar 31, 2011)

Pulled the jack Herrer last night. Photos of some of the more impressive tops. Damn it, I grew them to big once again


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## frogster (Apr 1, 2011)

Dammit man,,, weights!!


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## meezy4tw (Apr 1, 2011)

Drooling over here, those are fatty's congrats legal you did it again. lol


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## xivex (Apr 1, 2011)

Great Job LF! Beautiful tops man.


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## frogster (Apr 1, 2011)

Come on legal, you gotta join the outdoor throwdown if you can... I will even let you cheat and put a hydroponic system under the dirt to make it look like a soil grow..lol..


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## legallyflying (Apr 1, 2011)

Outdoor = schwag in these parts. I know people sitting on pounds of outdoor cause nobody wants it. 

So froggy, it has been very difficult to follow what your final weights were. Can you post some kind of summary? Each side, strains and G/watt? 

So far I'm looking at 6 mangoes yielding 31 oz. The jacks will need a week + to get to a weighable moisture content


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## frogster (Apr 5, 2011)

the scrog bud side was 8.5 sour d.. 7.0 big bud... 1.30 jack herr.. one blueberry at 1.60 different strain than the djs short that was on suppercropped side. 3.6 oz of smaller nice sour d. and 3-4 oz of good sour d ripped off.. counting the ripped off bud at 3oz gives 25 oz... had 4.5oz of awesome shake .. and shit loads of lower leaves and some popcorn to make butter... i put my other light over the scrogged side the last few weeks and they grew to the end..... i think i still chopped a little early... the 3.6 small s diesel buds were very trich covered, but i doubt you want to count that, as you would consider it trash,,lol.. so, taking that off.. gives .6gram per watt... with 3.6 smaller s. diesel added .7g/watt .. now the supercropped side,, ughh,, dont want to talk about that,,, it was half the yield,,, im told, by many, the sour d is incredible as is the jack herr , the jack herr had incredible tight buds... the big bud and bluberry are decent and equal to the best dispensaries offerings... not a bad harvest on the one side...


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## legallyflying (Apr 5, 2011)

Sweet.Still totally respetable for a first grow. I have a ton of traveling to do for work but the JH is pretty much dry. I don't like those buds, they are just really fluffy. Nothing like the dense mango. 

Oh well, its all endless sky this next round plus three super lemon haze. On day two from the flip


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## frogster (Apr 11, 2011)

Final weights and pics Legal???


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