# Obama FOOLED you all! pawned!



## MacGuyver4.2.0 (Jan 28, 2010)

Medical [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana Supporters 'Outraged' By Obama's DEA Chief[/URL] 

*Medical marijuana supporters say they are "outraged" over President Obama's re-appointment of Bush Administration holdover Michele Leonhart as chief of the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA).* 


"The retention of this Bush-era holdover is a profound disappointment to all of us who hoped that Obama would bring meaningful change to Washington," lamented Dale Gieringer, director of California NORML (National Organization for the Reform of marijuana Laws).

&#8203;Leonhart is to blame for having blocked the approval of a medical marijuana research garden requested by leading researcher Dr. Lyle Craker at the University of Massachusetts, overruling a decision by DEA administrative law judge Mary Ellen Bittner.

&#8203;Leonhart's action effectively blocked the development of marijuana for FDA approval, since without licensed producers FDA development and approval are impossible.


"If there's one thing on which supporters and critics of medical marijuana agree, it's the need for FDA studies," Gieringer said.


"This appointment calls into question whether the administration has any desire to move towards FDA regulation or abandon the bankrupt policies of its predecessors."


California NORML is calling on the U.S. Senate to "reconsider" Leonhart's nomination in view of her damaging -- and ongoing -- opposition to medical marijuana research.


----------



## buttery420 (Jan 28, 2010)

Yep the only way we'll ever get true freedom is through revolution. Fuck the republicans, fuck the democrats and any other political party.


----------



## biglolo (Jan 29, 2010)

buttery420 said:


> Yep the only way we'll ever get true freedom is through revolution. Fuck the republicans, fuck the democrats and any other political party.


Amen to that buttery420!!!!!


----------



## MMJSpots (Jan 29, 2010)

Lets not lay down and take it.. Get on the move because EVERYONES at risk http://mmjspots.com/marijuana-legalization-backers-hand-in-initiative-petitions


----------



## ford442 (Jan 29, 2010)

it's like we learned from jon stewart - obama is not a magic negro..! 
change isn't going to come from the top down - the states will all have to change one by one before the federal government does anything at all...


----------



## constructionpig (Jan 29, 2010)

I don't think the Federal Government has a clue what the public wants. Obama is just a Jimmy Carter of a different color.


----------



## lou~dog (Jan 29, 2010)

constructionpig said:


> I don't think the Federal Government has a clue what the public wants. Obama is just a Jimmy Carter of a different color.



yeah man just another puppet for the banksters! i blame the majority for not payin any attention, "oh let go GREEN! but fuck hemp... fools i tell you fools!


----------



## MacGuyver4.2.0 (Jan 29, 2010)

Obama openly (on TV even) stated that the Federal government would NOT go after legitimate MMJ patients or thier caregivers. So WHY did the DEA JUST raid a local laboratory that did potency testing for dispensaries? Regular patients are next, mark my words. 
*Medical-pot advocates riled over federal raid of Denver lab*

Federal drug-enforcement agents earlier this week seized medical-marijuana samples from a Denver lab that does potency testing for dispensaries, in what cannabis advocates say is an instance of continued official harassment of the medical-marijuana industry.
The raid at Full Spectrum Laboratories, just north of downtown Denver, occurred Wednesday, said Betty Aldworth, the lab's outreach director. She said agents took dozens of medical-marijuana samples &#8212; either small pieces of plants or test tubes of "extraction fluid" &#8212; but left the lab's equipment and did not arrest anyone.
Neither a Drug Enforcement Administration spokesman nor a U.S. attorney's office spokesman would confirm or deny that the raid took place.

Documents that would reveal why federal authorities targeted the lab were not available Thursday. 
"We cannot comment on ongoing federal investigations," DEA spokesman Mike Turner said.
Rob Corry, an attorney for the lab, also declined to comment.
Aldworth said lab employees are baffled as to why DEA agents would raid the lab. She said the lab is designated as a caregiver for several medical-marijuana patients in the state. 
U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder announced last year that federal authorities would not bother people operating in compliance with their state's medical-marijuana laws, but would continue to pursue anyone authorities believed were using the laws as cover for more nefarious activities.
"The advice that we received suggested we were doing everything we needed and more to be legal," Aldworth said.
The lab, which opened in November, conducts tests on different marijuana strains to determine their potency and help dispensaries provide dosing guidelines for patients.
"It seemed, based on their questioning, they thought we were doing other things here," Aldworth said.
Meanwhile on Thursday, lawyers for the city of Centennial and a dispensary the city ordered shuttered prepared for round two of their legal fight in an Arapahoe County courtroom.
In December, Judge Christopher Cross ruled that Centennial improperly cited federal law in shutting down the dispensary, CannaMart.
Since the ruling, though, Centennial has prevented CannaMart from reopening, arguing that its current location isn't zoned for a dispensary and that the city's moratorium on new dispensaries prevents it from moving elsewhere.
Centennial attorney Andrew Nathan said the city was acting in good faith. But CannaMart attorney Bob Hoban argued that those conditions effectively continued the ban, and he asked Cross to intervene. Cross declined, saying the zoning and moratorium issues weren't brought up in CannaMart's original lawsuit.
"If they choose a different reason for banning it . . . that's a different issue, and that's not before the court," Cross said.
CannaMart's attorneys then vowed to amend their lawsuit to include the new issues, setting up another clash in the ongoing battle.

​​


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Jan 29, 2010)

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mqTJa3D4WKI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mqTJa3D4WKI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]


----------



## rreign (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm so sick and tired of this bullshit. You know what I'm more sick of Mac?! All of these scared or ignorant people that are just going to lay down with their face to the ground and not say or actually DO a damn this about this. I for one will be writing my letters and virtually bombarding senators and congressmen with more emails than they can handle. I could care less if they read them or not. That's not the point. The point is to make it known that WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH!! THAT WE WILL NOT BURY OUR HEADS. Instead we will stand up for our rights that we all deserve (except the aliens, lol) we will stand up for the rights that I have personally fought for. I have been there and seen face to face, men die fighting for these the so called "RIGHTS" that the government THINKS they have given us. Well it's time to overcome and show them what TRUE RIGHTS are! Get ready because the thread is coming where people will have all of the information they need to contact anyone they can think of. Do you know what activist means people? It means " a doctrine or practice that emphasizes direct vigorous action especially in support of or opposition to one side of a controversial issue.


----------



## one11 (Jan 29, 2010)

who wants to start a revolution with me right now. im so high right now...and this is sounds like such a good idea. lets revolt people. in all seriousness.


----------



## FuZZyBUDz (Jan 29, 2010)

YEA! we can start by all E-mailing Obama and telling him how we feel.lol


----------



## ford442 (Jan 29, 2010)

why don't we all strap bombs to our chests and ride our bikes to the next G7 picnic? it seems easier with every clock-tick.. but, who's will would that represent? mine? or the rank and file or better yet - the government.. but, i don't want to catalyze/synthesize the second final solution.. i don't want to be the steve smith of the revolution.. do you see the analogy? "we're the oilers" the world bank proclaims - 2 minutes remain in the seventh game of the best of seven series.. yeah, jesus saves! gretzky scores! the workers slave - the rich get more. one wrong move and we risk the cup. so play the man, not the puck.. why don't we plant a mechanic virus and erase the memory of the machines that maintain this capitalist dynasty? and yes, i recognize the irony that the very system i oppose affords me the luxury of biting the hand that feeds - but that's exactly why privileged fucks like me should feel obliged to whine and kick and scream - until everyone has everything they need!!


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Jan 29, 2010)

The most *effective* action anyone who wishes to make a difference could take would be to join a reform organization right *now*. 

*NORML* is the largest and best known, but there are others. * NORML* has a list of other organizations.

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6241

If every member of RIU joined a reform organization, the impact would be *tremendous*. In truth, only a *small* fraction cannabis users actually join up.

Take *NORML* for example. The more members, the more *influence* the group has with elected officials and policy makers.


----------



## FuZZyBUDz (Jan 29, 2010)

Johnny im lookin at it right now, but not too sure on how to actualy JOIN! help me out bro!* im in it to win it*


----------



## ford442 (Jan 29, 2010)

https://secure.norml.org/join/ ?


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Jan 29, 2010)

FuZZyBUDz said:


> Johnny im lookin at it right now, but not too sure on how to actualy JOIN! help me out bro!* im in it to win it*


Awesome! Follow the *Take Action* link from the main page.


----------



## FuZZyBUDz (Jan 29, 2010)

$25 bucks?? to just join! damn gotta wait til my car gets here. plastics in there, lol. a free sticker for my hood too! is there a free one fer other peoples i kno?? im tryin to round the heads together and get them on there now.


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Jan 29, 2010)

$25 is the *basic* membership which gets you the sticker and regular mailings/action notifications, but if you may donate any amount you wish. 

I guarantee you, if you *Pay Pal* them $5 or $10, they will take it and be grateful. But if you want to wait until you can scrape up the $25, that's cool, too. Either way, *technically* you are a member for a year.

I decline the mailings for paranoia reasons and opt for the emails instead.


----------



## FuZZyBUDz (Jan 29, 2010)

Johnnyorganic said:


> $25 is the *basic* membership which gets you the sticker and regular mailings/action notifications, but if you may donate any amount you wish.
> 
> I guarantee you, if you *Pay Pal* them $5 or $10, they will take it and be grateful. But if you want to wait until you can scrape up the $25, that's cool, too. Either way, *technically* you are a member for a year.
> 
> *I decline the mailings for paranoia reasons and opt for the emails instead.*



LOL i could dig it. ill be getting that sticker, if not the lil pot pin is DOPE! but the sticker would look nice on my car!i dont kno???


----------



## buttery420 (Feb 14, 2010)

Don't you think reformism offer's a bit a a band-aid solution, if that? I find it to be historically ineffective, after all it's about altering current structures that are inherently designed to oppress. I'm not opposed to the concept of reform altogether but to the idea that all the necessary change comes about through reform.


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Feb 14, 2010)

buttery420 said:


> Don't you think reformism offer's a bit a a band-aid solution, if that?


When I speak of reform I refer to re-legalization, which would have an enormous impact. 

Criminal cartels would be forced to move into other criminal enterprises.

Law enforcement, the courts, and prisons could focus on actual criminals.

Regulated and taxed cannabis would be free of illegal pesticides and Mexican wee wee.

Cannabis users would no longer be discriminated against and marginalized in the workplace.

Those of us who choose to grow our own for personal use could do so without fear of having our doors kicked in by jackbooted thugs with guns and badges.

Industrial hemp would lose the stigma associated with illicit drugs. Paper, textiles, food, building materials, fuel; all from one plant. The hemp industry could create jobs. Small scale farming would be energized.

That's a mighty big band-aide.


buttery420 said:


> I find it to be historically ineffective, after all it's about altering current structures that are inherently designed to oppress.


If it is historical, as you say, perhaps you could provide an example or two?


buttery420 said:


> I'm not opposed to the concept of reform altogether but to the idea that all the necessary change comes about through reform.


What is the alternative?

The status quo is unacceptable.

Allowing medical use only is fine for sick people, but leaves the rest of us out in the cold.

Decriminalization would result in law enforcement and the criminals retaining considerable power. The stigma connected to cannabis use would remain.


----------



## ford442 (Feb 14, 2010)

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/obama-admins-promise-dea-continues-raids-medical-marijuana-growers/


----------



## beardo (Feb 14, 2010)

if your stupid enough to vote for someone with a name like that....this is the united states of america


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Feb 14, 2010)

ford442 said:


> http://rawstory.com/2010/02/obama-admins-promise-dea-continues-raids-medical-marijuana-growers/


Federal laws were *not* changed. The *memo* the administration released late last year related to medicinal cannabis was just that. This is *not* reform.

The man profiled in the article drew attention to himself by going on television bragging about about the size of his operation and the profits he was earning. In addition, he was growing one block away from an elementary school.

He essentially *dared* the DEA to raid him and they accommodated him.

Had the Federal laws *actually* changed, the situation would be completely different.


----------



## newb985 (Feb 15, 2010)

beardo said:


> if your stupid enough to vote for someone with a name like that....this is the united states of america


probably the stupidest thing I've heard in weeks. "this is the united states of america" as you say so obviously the name shouldn't matter.

But you're probably from the south or some other place where you're brainwashed to think that they're all the "enemies."


----------



## chitownsmoking (Feb 15, 2010)

one thing is for certain my fellow potheads...... is that another black man will never be presidant after this negro!!!!! not that the white version of him is much better!!!!! i hope he doesnt tye to bring his punk ass back to chicago!!!! cuzz we dont want that motherfucker here. at this time with the economy has fucked has it is i dont even think those project niggas {who use to grip his balls nasty} want his flakey ass back.


----------



## macrael (Feb 15, 2010)

FOR ANY ONE OF YOU TO BELIEVE IN A POLITICIAN MAKING RADICAL CHANGES NO MATTER WHAT COLOR OR DECENT IT AINT HAPPENING gov is the largest gang around if you didn t notice already and we all live in there territory


----------



## chief greenleaf (Feb 15, 2010)

Anybody that enjoys growing their own herb, whether legally under medical laws or not, needs ta think before joining NORML. Ive supported them for years but have recently withdrew due to their recent backing of a new MJ bill that I cant remember the name of right now! HA! But this bill basically would make all medical marijuana only available thru a dispensary and would make it illeagal to grow your own at home. This bill is being backed by the owner of Oaksterdam Univ. and other big cannabusiness owners in an effort to maximize their already massive profits. If none of us could grow our own medicine and were forced to purchase it from dispenseries at outrageous prices, not only would we all probably go broke but the dispensery owners profits would increase by incredible amounts! Most of these Cannabusiness owners are NORML members which is why NORML, MPP and DPA back this bill. 
Jack Herer is currently openly opossing this bill and NORML for backing it, reading some info on this website http://www.newagecitizen.com/MERP.htm is where I found out about this bullshit. Jack and several other MJ activists including Ed Rosenthal and Dennis Peron (Dennis Peron was actually fired from Oaksterdam Univ. for opposing this bill!) are backing The MERP Model, which is basically a draft that MJ Activists can model their potential bills after. The MERP Model would be much more benificial to the rest of us instead of screwing us and making the rich richer. Here's a lil somethin I found after googling MERP Model
*Who is this "cannabusiness community"? *
_This community evolved after the first Medical Marijuana Initiative, Proposition 215, gave Californian citizens the right to consume Cannabis in November 2006._

_It is comprised of "reform organizations" including the "Marijuana Policy Project," NORML and the "Drug Policy Alliance." It is also comprised of dispensary owners, "Medical Marijuana" growers and distributors of "Medical Marijuana Cards" such as Paul Stanford. And what do they all have in common? They do not want you to ever have the right to grow your own Marijuana: even as an adult_

The MRPP (Marijuana Re-Legalization Policy Projuect) is probably more of an organization that we can trust to push for a change in MJ laws that will be much more beneficial to us, not just the Cannabusiness Industry. If you take a look at their site youll see that almost all of the big name activists that we all know and trust support these guys, not NORML.
Oh yea before I forget PLEASE keep in mind that your local NORML chapters arent necessarily in support of the national NORML org. and many local chapters support the MERP Model and are at odds w/NORML headquarters. So dont jump to conclusions and stop supporting your local chapters until you know where they stand!​


----------



## chief greenleaf (Feb 15, 2010)

Johnnyorganic said:


> When I speak of reform I refer to re-legalization, which would have an enormous impact.
> 
> Criminal cartels would be forced to move into other criminal enterprises.
> 
> ...


I honestly think that we would all regret the full legalization of marijuana. I mean can you guys even imagine what these blood sucking corporations would do to our herb! Just thinnking about it makes me sick. There would probably be all kinds of regulations on growing it, if we were even allowed to grow at all! Remember were not allowed to make our own whiskey... why would herb be any defferent? They would tax the hell out of it too which would basically give govt the authority to jack up the prices as often as they want. We made the mistake of giving the Govt authority ta do this with tobacco and now were payin nearly 10 bucks a pack!
I personally would much rather see decriminalization. That way *WE* can retain control of the industry, not the corporations. Right now marijuana gives the little guy an oppurtunity to make some extra cash to support his family when times get tough. And even with herb being 100% illegal its a relatively easy going hustle. I mean compared to selling hard drugs herb is a cake walk! The clientel is laid back and not going thru withdrawl. You dont have ta worry about them over dosing on your product or their kids going hungry because of their herb addiction! Anybody thats sold hard drugs will tell ya that sellin herb is just a totally different game. The only good that will come from legalization and taxation is that you wont have ta worry about getting arrested and the prison population will decrease. But those two things can also be accomplished thru decrim as well, IF its done right!
I would just hate to see the same big wigs that have shit on us for years profit from our hard work and suffering. Because there is no doubt about it that as soon as legalization happens 99% of us are gonna be nothin but customers. 
Does anybody feel me on this one???


----------



## Uberchron (Feb 15, 2010)

buttery420 said:


> Yep the only way we'll ever get true freedom is through revolution. Fuck the republicans, fuck the democrats and any other political party.


agreed. i say we bear arms and storm the capitol!!


----------



## beardo (Feb 15, 2010)

newb985 said:


> probably the stupidest thing I've heard in weeks. "this is the united states of america" as you say so obviously the name shouldn't matter.
> 
> But you're probably from the south or some other place where you're brainwashed to think that they're all the "enemies."


some things do matter and this countrys founding fathers were white christen outspoken men of action. our generation is a bunch of pussys who are afraid to stand up for anything afraid to assume that someone named Ackmed who wares a sheet or turban is probably not a friend...Trust and belive they wont have the same consideration and compassion for you..my friends and neighbors grew up in the U.S. and have american names and went to american schools....i love my friends family and neighbors....and want what is best for us and our grandchildren...P.S. not from south im from verry LIB state and the stuff were soposed to accept is discusting...homeless grandmothers...transvestite prostitutes...i guess thats freedom just dont J Walk


----------



## buttery420 (Feb 15, 2010)

> some things do matter and this countrys founding fathers were white christen outspoken men of action. our generation is a bunch of pussys who are afraid to stand up for anything afraid to assume that someone named Ackmed who wares a sheet or turban is probably not a friend...Trust and belive they wont have the same consideration and compassion for you..my friends and neighbors grew up in the U.S. and have american names and went to american schools....i love my friends family and neighbors....and want what is best for us and our grandchildren...P.S. not from south im from verry LIB state and the stuff were soposed to accept is discusting...homeless grandmothers...transvestite prostitutes...i guess thats freedom just dont J Walk


Johnny, law reform won't change this sort of attitude...racism, homophobia etc. for example we have laws against hate crime, but this still occurs on a frequent basis because as you should know making something illegal doesn't stop it from happening. When I speak of revolution I'm alluding to social revolution, in which these kinds of attitudes aren't socially acceptable. Bureaucratizing the beaucocracy won't help anyone. 
Yes pot smokers are 'oppressed' in a sense and this is something that could be helped by de-criminalizing but many more people in oppressive situations cannot be helped by simple tweaks in the law.


----------



## beardo (Feb 15, 2010)

buttery420 said:


> Johnny, law reform won't change this sort of attitude...racism, homophobia etc. for example we have laws against hate crime, but this still occurs on a frequent basis because as you should know making something illegal doesn't stop it from happening. When I speak of revolution I'm alluding to social revolution, in which these kinds of attitudes aren't socially acceptable. Bureaucratizing the beaucocracy won't help anyone.
> Yes pot smokers are 'oppressed' in a sense and this is something that could be helped by de-criminalizing but many more people in oppressive situations cannot be helped by simple tweaks in the law.


you will win your social revolution is here and soon statements like mine will be considered a hate crime freedom of speetch is being killed by political correctness. i just want the right to not have others lifestyles forced on me or my family. dont worry you won't have to deal with hard working honest hetrosexual american men long we are an endangered species with no one intrested in protecting our rights


----------



## buttery420 (Feb 15, 2010)

beardo said:


> you will win your social revolution is here and soon statements like mine will be considered a hate crime freedom of speetch is being killed by political correctness. i just want the right to not have others lifestyles forced on me or my family. dont worry you won't have to deal with hard working honest hetrosexual american men long we are an endangered species with no one intrested in protecting our rights


Did I mention anything about criminalizing the discriminatory social commentary you offered? I am simply asking that one day people look at the shit you write and laugh. 
No one is forcing their lifestyle down your throat, on the contrary this is something you want to do by criticizing people based on culture and sexuality, whilst promoting the image of a "hard-working, honest, heterosexual American male". And please stop with the victim mentality, you have just described the one of the most privileged groups of people in society.


----------



## CyberSecks (Feb 15, 2010)

im pretty positive after watching the nostradomus effect that obama is the anti christ. . . 
lol


----------



## beardo (Feb 15, 2010)

I don't blamy you and didnt say you want to criminalize my points of view or right to say what i belive but some people do and are working on it. hate crime laws can be used in the wrong ways and for the wrong purposed. why is assaulting me less of a crime than assaulting a minority ?? seems discrimotory to me. I dont know where you all live but i have transvestite prostitutes who roam my neighborhood blowing guys in public and their allowed to hang around soliciting. i walked across the street and got a ticket for j walking and didnt pay now they want over 600$ and im wondering who the real criminals are


----------



## buttery420 (Feb 15, 2010)

> hate crime laws can be used in the wrong ways and for the wrong purposed.


 What do you mean for the wrong purpose?


> why is assaulting me less of a crime than assaulting a minority ??


Because the assault isn't motivated simply by blind prejudice. You are not likely to be attacked without provocation and certainly not for your appearance or sexuality.


> I dont know where you all live but i have transvestite prostitutes who roam my neighborhood blowing guys in public and their allowed to hang around soliciting. i walked across the street and got a ticket for j walking and didnt pay now they want over 600$ and im wondering who the real criminals are


Certainly not "transvestite prostitutes"...


----------



## TreeOfLiberty (Feb 16, 2010)

Writing Senators letters like one poster said, yeah, it lets them know we're out there, but something more "IN YOUR FACE" is better, pro-active marches with civil disobedience.

Martin Luther King in 1963 with his march in Washington D.C. had roughly 250,000 people with him as he walked from the Washington Monument to the Lincoln Memorial. THAT -was a true display of power! THAT is something like we need. MLK was fighting against what were unjust laws against blacks. We have UNJUST LAWS AGAINST us who use Cannabis...be it legal or not.

A pulling together of people to go from city to city, in INSANELY MASSIVE NUMBERS- if people would just set aside their fear! A nationwide march going from major city-to-major city would rattle Washington D.C. , it would get media and internet coverage like you wouldn't believe.

MLK advocated civil disobedience , and this is what will further the movement, they cannot lock all of us up, some of us will have to make sacrifices , but they CANNOT get all of us. We need a movement so huge that we can put it through to the legislators that if you arrest one of us- 10 more will fall in line of the one arrested, and we will NEVER STOP, NOT EVER!!!

We have the people to rattle the shit out of the U.S. GOVT. , we have the numbers if people just get over their fear. 

Mark Twain once said (In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him for then it costs nothing to be a patriot).

I think many just want to stay underground and are reasonably satisfied with the current MMJ movement and are afraid of losing what little steps we've already made... IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH !!! 

Don't settle for a few crumbs, demand the whole meal ! We can't wait till 2025 or 2030 when it'll probably be legal by then. We need to force their hand. Enough marches and civil disobedience could... could have legalization if not at least nationwide ,decriminalization by 2012-to-2013 if enough people got over their fear. I've been to 2 legalization rallies before. I don't know anything about the grass roots and starting up but I'm going to contact NORML and MPP to see how to get something going.


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Feb 16, 2010)

chief greenleaf said:


> I honestly think that we would all regret the full legalization of marijuana. I mean can you guys even imagine what these blood sucking corporations would do to our herb! Just thinnking about it makes me sick.


It alarms me to no end to see such a rash of anti-corporate mentality lately. After all, a corporation is nothing more than a collection of *individuals* coming together and pooling their capital for the purpose of providing a good or service. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and state that your fear is not actually of corporations per se, but *Corporatism*; which is an alliance between government and corporations for the purpose of manipulating the economy for mutual benefit. Corporatism is *not* free market capitalism, it is the economic component of Fascism.


chief greenleaf said:


> There would probably be all kinds of regulations on growing it, if we were even allowed to grow at all! Remember were not allowed to make our own whiskey... why would herb be any defferent? They would tax the hell out of it too which would basically give govt the authority to jack up the prices as often as they want. We made the mistake of giving the Govt authority ta do this with tobacco and now were payin nearly 10 bucks a pack!


Of course there would be regulations, but that is a *good* thing. And taxes are a fact of life in *any* civilized society. Regulation and taxation would give cannabis legitimacy and take away many objections from people who are largely ambivalent to cannabis. Removing the upward price pressure which accompanies Prohibition will *offset* any taxes which result from re-legalization. Although I agree with you on the *sin taxes* angle; that is another argument.

You are *incorrect* about whiskey. Currently people can produce their own beer, wine, and whiskey without interference from the government as long they do not sell it.


chief greenleaf said:


> I personally would much rather see decriminalization. That way WE can retain control of the industry, not the corporations.


Decriminalization will allow law enforcement and criminal cartels virtually the same power they have now. And government will not benefit from tax revenues derived from full re-legalization.


chief greenleaf said:


> Right now marijuana gives the little guy an oppurtunity to make some extra cash to support his family when times get tough. And even with herb being 100% illegal its a relatively easy going hustle. I mean compared to selling hard drugs herb is a cake walk! The clientel is laid back and not going thru withdrawl. You dont have ta worry about them over dosing on your product or their kids going hungry because of their herb addiction! Anybody thats sold hard drugs will tell ya that sellin herb is just a totally different game.


Right now the little guy gets shat on by the criminal cartels and law enforcement. There are little in the way of opportunities and no prospects for a street level drug dealer. It's not exactly something one puts on one's resume. Maybe it is just me, but I have never known a drug dealer who sold cannabis *exclusively*. Again, that is just me and I have not purchased cannabis in *years*.


chief greenleaf said:


> The only good that will come from legalization and taxation is that you wont have ta worry about getting arrested and the prison population will decrease. But those two things can also be accomplished thru decrim as well, IF its done right!


I have already explained in a previous post how the benefits of re-legalization far outweigh any benefits of decriminalization. It is an apples and oranges comparison.


chief greenleaf said:


> I would just hate to see the same big wigs that have shit on us for years profit from our hard work and suffering. Because there is no doubt about it that as soon as legalization happens 99% of us are gonna be nothin but customers.
> Does anybody feel me on this one???


With re-legalization, people will be able to grow their own because it will be *legal*. Just like beer, wine, and liquor. Furthermore, large corporations do not monopolize the alcohol industry now. There are thousands upon thousands of wineries, microbreweries, and small distilleries. Tobacco is slightly different because it does not grow in all climates, but people do grow and cure their own tobacco. And there are smaller tobacco companies as well.


----------



## buttery420 (Feb 16, 2010)

> After all, a corporation is nothing more than a collection of *individuals* coming together and pooling their capital for the purpose of providing a good or service.


At the expense of the little guy. You just described a drug cartel. 
In a free market economy corporations will simply be less accountable for their actions, because they're not accountable to the government and therefor not to the electorate. 
For example, can you imagine any sort of action against climate change taking place if corporate interests we're not scrutinized?
Right now that takes place through government agencies. It should be the general populace but if you want to talk in terms of reform, I'd go for nationalization.


----------



## estesj (Feb 16, 2010)

Fuck obama and his manly looking ass W.N.B.A looking ass wife!


----------



## LaundreyClosetGuy (Feb 16, 2010)

Speaking as the ''Little Guy' I just want to be able to come home after a hard days work, roll up a joint, tend to my plants, and go to sleep with my wife knowing Im perfectly fine.
Is that so much?


----------



## estesj (Feb 16, 2010)

LaundreyClosetGuy said:


> Speaking as the ''Little Guy' I just want to be able to come home after a hard days work, roll up a joint, tend to my plants, and go to sleep with my wife knowing Im perfectly fine.
> Is that so much?


With that package you also get medical care that turns the hospital into the DMV or the tax collectors office where you pick a number and wait 12 hours for care.


----------



## LaundreyClosetGuy (Feb 16, 2010)

Ok, I'm not stupid, a simple mind perhaps, but not stupid. Please inform me what kind of point your making there because that whole post just went righ over my head... I am a little far off stoned.


----------



## estesj (Feb 16, 2010)

LaundreyClosetGuy said:


> Ok, I'm not stupid, a simple mind perhaps, but not stupid. Please inform me what kind of point your making there because that whole post just went righ over my head... I am a little far off stoned.


His medical plan will make it free for everyone to go to the hospital. That will make it way overcrowded and the doctors will be over worked and under paid thus causing sub par medical attention. If you have a good medical plan because of your hard work at your job it will be worthless with the overload of bums at the hospital! I am not trying to be negative its just my view.


----------



## LaundreyClosetGuy (Feb 16, 2010)

So let me get this right. You are talking about heath reform? When did the post switch from refeer reform to this? Either way, I think you should start a new topic on it, i'll meet you half-way there.


----------



## estesj (Feb 16, 2010)

LaundreyClosetGuy said:


> So let me get this right. You are talking about heath reform? When did the post switch from refeer reform to this? Either way, I think you should start a new topic on it, i'll meet you half-way there.


 I feel ya on that. Obama just reminded me of that. I did not even read the whole thread. Peace bro!


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Feb 16, 2010)

buttery420 said:


> At the expense of the little guy. You just described a drug cartel.


Are you seriously comparing a *legal* corporation which pays taxes and is subject to regulation to a *criminal* cartel which does *neither*? 

Corporations benefit the little guy, too. Corporations provide necessary goods and service, and *legitimate* employment.


buttery420 said:


> In a free market economy corporations will simply be less accountable for their actions, because they're not accountable to the government and therefor not to the electorate.


What makes you think a free market equates the Wild West? Corporations would still be bound by the law in a free market, thus accountable to the government.


buttery420 said:


> For example, can you imagine any sort of action against climate change taking place if corporate interests we're not scrutinized?


*Bad example*. The Man Made Climate Change movement has imploded and shown to be a *hoax*. The IPCC has been *wholly* discredited. And the carbon trading scheme is the essence of *Corporatism*. 

Each state currently has an environmental agency to regulate pollution; industrial or otherwise. And this is as it should be.


buttery420 said:


> Right now that takes place through government agencies. It should be the general populace but if you want to talk in terms of reform, I'd go for nationalization.


Nationalization? Are you fucking *serious*?


----------



## beardo (Feb 16, 2010)

origonally Johnny Organic-QUOTE-It alarms me to no end to see such a rash of anti-corporate mentality lately. After all, a corporation is nothing more than a collection of *individuals* coming together and pooling their capital for the purpose of providing a good or service. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and state that your fear is not actually of corporations per se, but *Corporatism*; which is an alliance between government and corporations for the purpose of manipulating the economy for mutual benefit. Corporatism is *not* free market capitalism, it is the economic component of Fascism......---------------------Would this refer to the General Motors and Chrystler deals and the bank bailouts ond stimulis package and subsisidesed corn farms? im afraid of a smothering of inginuity and entropanur ship im afraid of a walmart or G.M making it impossible for someone with a better or new product from ever being to get started.


----------



## Johnnyorganic (Feb 16, 2010)

beardo said:


> origonally Johnny Organic-QUOTE-It alarms me to no end to see such a rash of anti-corporate mentality lately. After all, a corporation is nothing more than a collection of *individuals* coming together and pooling their capital for the purpose of providing a good or service. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and state that your fear is not actually of corporations per se, but *Corporatism*; which is an alliance between government and corporations for the purpose of manipulating the economy for mutual benefit. Corporatism is *not* free market capitalism, it is the economic component of Fascism......---------------------Would this refer to the General Motors and Chrystler deals and the bank bailouts ond stimulis package and subsisidesed corn farms? im afraid of a smothering of inginuity and entropanur ship im afraid of a walmart or G.M making it impossible for someone with a better or new product from ever being to get started.


The Automobile Manufacturing takeovers by the government and the unions are definitely Corporatism. Same for the bailout of Wall Street. In fact, the whole *TARP* abortion reeks of Corporatism. The Porkulus package qualifies as well. Farm subsidies may or may not be corporatism depending on the farm size of the recipients, but it's definitely Fascism. Subsidies and price controls are key components to that insidious system.

In the past, GM has definitely used its size, power, and political influence to stifle, even eliminate competition; but it's *Government Motors* now. GM and Chrysler can *both* operate at a loss *indefinitely* now that each is *one with the machine*.

I don't know what to say about Wal-Mart. That company definitely games the current economic system to its advantage, but I know it *fights* the system, too.


----------



## beardo (Feb 16, 2010)

I love G.M. but if its an american company and now government sponsered i would love to see the cars and all components made in the U.S. by americans even cars ment to be sold overseas and i would like to see americans made to buy and drive these G.M. cars either with a ban on forigen cars or more likely with a huge import tarrif to make even the cheapest toyota out of everyones price range....it worked for Harley when they were going broke. i dont know if this would work and i think it might be comminusim or socialisim...but its an idea lets produce things domesticly instead of importing everything


----------



## LaundreyClosetGuy (Feb 18, 2010)

banning cars made outside of the US would not be a good idea, mind you the fact we tax the auto makers for the importation of parts/whole cars. And america has, ALOT of cars not made in the US.


----------



## MacGuyver4.2.0 (Feb 18, 2010)

If you are curious as to the origin or makeup of your auto, The New York Times made a neat calculator that shows where your car and or components come from.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/06/19/automobiles/20090619-auto-plants-4.html

I think you will ALL be very surprised there are only a FEW cars that are 100% U.S.  Sad but true. America.. land of the sell-out.


----------



## hightyde27 (Feb 18, 2010)

*ONE SIMPLE THING HAS BEEN FORGOTTEN. 


*The people of this country shouldn't fear the actions and intentions of the government, 
the government should fear the actions and intentions of the people who elected it. Period.


----------



## IgrowUgrow (Feb 18, 2010)

No Homo, I think Obama deserves to be fucked in the ass by a 7ft tall 500lb Mexican. Obama is a lier, because if I can recall correctly his time as senator I am possitive he said he wanted decriminalization for the medical marijuana patients. He also said that this should be done Nation Wide, but he didnt agree with full legalization of Medical Marijuana. In my opinion I think Obama will decriminalize in his second term, I think he is afraid to decriminilize before he gets to his second term because there is alot of Anti-Cannabis voters out there and he wants all the votes he can get. In his second term it wont matter anymore if he decriminalized because he can't be president a third term. I really liked the Idea about the Nation Wide March for the Congress to fully Decriminalize Cannabis, for Medical and recreational purposes. I think a Nation Wide March would really do the trick, the president would have no choice but to try and decriminalize, because if he ignores the march he will be looked down on by the marchers and the people that saw the dedication the marchers have to stand up for something they want as a Nation. (U.S.A) I would really love it if MJ was decriminalized in South Carolina and could prescribed, I go through pain everyday from my Shermans Kyphosis( Spinal Fusion Surgery) I had a few years ago and I am allergic to all codine pills, and all other pain reliever meds, even Tylenol will make me sick, so what in the Hell does the government expect me to do for pain. The bad thing about South Carolina is that we almost had medical marijuana at one point, look up SC on NORML. South Carolina Senator Measher put out a Medical Marijuana bill in 2007, but he died from a heart attack before the hearing and none of the other Polititions wanted to carry out the bill, so it was lost never to be brought back again.


----------



## KeegoSmalls (Feb 19, 2010)

People need to do what the people of the great state of California do, which is keep fighting even after you have won. They started 10 years ago and since then have evolved things like having the plant limit taken away and legalization on the ballot in Nov. The point is if they give us an inch, we take a mile and start trying for that next inch. Fight the fight, live the life you love and love the life you live.


----------



## TreeOfLiberty (Feb 19, 2010)

I don't know when or even if the masses will ever realize that the 2 party political system in the U.S. is a scam set up and perpetuated to fleece the American people. Obama lied ! really ??? WAKE UP !!! 

There is no political savior! There is no political party that is going to turn things around. This shit game goes on every 4 years , sometimes 8 years, and BOTH SIDES screw the U.S. people over. They've been doing this for DECADE after DECADE.

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

Democrats aren't going to do anything or they would've done it by now, Republicans..the same applies to them. Wake up and get out of the LEFT/RIGHT Paradigm. All it is- is FALSE HOPE.

The Federal Govt. has gone so far into corporatism that everyday life in the U.S. is doomed, every term that passes...things get a little bit worse. Most people aren't politically active at the state level, and this is a mistake. We need to push for the 10th amendment, and break away from the Union, its going to take something bazaar and radical to bring about REAL CHANGE.

Break away from the Union, the Constitution says every state has that power to separate them self from a rogue and out of control Federal Govt. The Founding Fathers were genius,though not perfect, and they could foresee potential problems. 

I've always been a supporter of the 10th amendment movement. The Federal Govt. will only get worse in their tyranny and oppressive nature. The Feds are growing and growing a super police state that Hitler and Stalin would envy.


----------



## hightyde27 (Feb 19, 2010)

"De Oppresso Liber"!! 


where are my brothers? Come home and do the job here.


----------



## greenphosi (Feb 19, 2010)

> "If there's one thing on which supporters and critics of medical marijuana agree, it's the need for FDA studies," Gieringer said.


studies, studies and more studies... come on cut to the fucking chase, we all know cannabis (not "marijuana") is an incredible medicine. if they are going to study the plant then research what strains are good for certain medical conditions.


----------



## greenphosi (Feb 19, 2010)

the olympic torch getting passed person to person reminds me of how Ronald Regan has passed the torch of the "war on drugs", president to president. 

Remember all those presidents are lawyers, full of double speak and hypocritical BS. how the F can we trust any politician these days. where is the compassion and honesty for once, will we ever see it in our life time.. hmmmm.


----------



## LaundreyClosetGuy (Feb 20, 2010)

Yes we all want change now, we agree there! Here is one thing to rap your brains on... A new generation is not very far from power... I have a good feeling that it will be a very kind generation.


----------



## ford442 (Feb 20, 2010)

this is true - but, i fear that our power structure does not prompt the meek and compassionate to run for office as quickly as those who are hungry for power and wealth.. 

a couple of my ideas are to somehow get more "young" people into higher offices - by young i mean like 25-45 or something - i trust young people to simply be invigorated and get things done - i don't really trust dudes so old that they have to be wheeled in to vote to know what they are doing or speak for my generation at all.. then, my other idea is to have small groups of people to head public offices instead of just one dude.. i could see one man running Carmel-by-the-Sea, but not when it comes to a township of 1,000,000 or a state or a nation of 330,000,000 people.. i don't see how we should entrust the helm of a huge continent to one guy and a room full of old farts..


----------



## LaundreyClosetGuy (Feb 20, 2010)

The prez (using phone) isn't really in power imo, sure he has alot of say, but jesus christ we could see the strings attatched to Bush... And we all know he can't form words correctly. But USA? HAA!


----------



## grassified (Feb 27, 2010)

face of evil.


----------



## YungMoolaBaby (Feb 27, 2010)

Play METAL GEAR SOLID 2: SONS OF LIBERTY. It will answer all of your questions about the government. It's the god damn PATRIOTS!!!


----------



## beardo (Feb 28, 2010)

grassified said:


> face of evil.


who is this? is it the transvestite obama appointed? i heard we have a guy in a dress running something now


----------



## MacGuyver4.2.0 (Feb 28, 2010)

beardo said:


> who is this? is it the transvestite obama appointed? i heard we have a guy in a dress running something now


 
...or, Michele Leonhart as I said in the first post of this thread. 

Medical [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"][URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] Supporters 'Outraged' By Obama's DEA Chief[/URL] 

*Medical [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] supporters say they are "outraged" over President Obama's re-appointment of Bush Administration holdover Michele Leonhart as chief of the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA).* 


"The retention of this Bush-era holdover is a profound disappointment to all of us who hoped that Obama would bring meaningful change to Washington," lamented Dale Gieringer, director of California NORML (National Organization for the Reform of [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] Laws).

&#8203;Leonhart is to blame for having blocked the approval of a medical [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] research garden requested by leading researcher Dr. Lyle Craker at the University of Massachusetts, overruling a decision by DEA administrative law judge Mary Ellen Bittner.

&#8203;Leonhart's action effectively blocked the development of [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] for FDA approval, since without licensed producers FDA development and approval are impossible.


"If there's one thing on which supporters and critics of medical [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] agree, it's the need for FDA studies," Gieringer said.


"This appointment calls into question whether the administration has any desire to move towards FDA regulation or abandon the bankrupt policies of its predecessors."


California NORML is calling on the U.S. Senate to "reconsider" Leonhart's nomination in view of her damaging -- and ongoing -- opposition to medical [URL="https://www.rollitup.org/"]marijuana[/URL] research.


----------



## YungMoolaBaby (Mar 1, 2010)

It's THE GODDAMN PATRIOTS!!!!!!!!!


----------



## hightyde27 (Mar 5, 2010)

LOL! You're a nut. 


Seriously tho. You would expect a Young black man from the greater Chicago area to know one thing about ENFORCING drug policy? Shit. That nigg'uh prolly smuggled some zips onto the campus his freshmen year. He was probably all like, "How the fuck am I supposed to know? Get one of Bush's people. they'd know. Then tell the stupid muthfuckers they can't do anyth--- Oh shit(!). Here come that silly bitch now. Hide the bong. Hide the Boooong, nigguh, hide it!" 

The better question should be:

Why are you scrutinizing the private endeavors of free men and letting companies like Dow go on selling genetically modified foods? All showing potential links to autism, cancer remissions, malnutrition, and infertility with incomplete and forged lab results. Why aren't these highly modified, toxin fill foods, being made to pass FDA approval? Cause some asshole lobbied a congressmen with money, dope, cheerleaders, and power; 

"Give me control of a countries banks and I care not who writes it's laws". One of the Rothschild family.


----------

