# Free seed pre harvest pics



## SimonD (Mar 26, 2012)

G13 Labs Pineapple Express.














Dinafem Original Amnesia.














FemaleSeeds White Widow x Big Bud
















World of Seeds Northern Lights x Big Bud








Same NL/BB plant as above pictured with its clone due to be harvested in ~3 weeks. The clone is a bit bigger.


I'll update the thread periodically as new plants that are of interest to the community are ready for harvest.



Simon


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## hydrosoil78 (Mar 26, 2012)

diet rite , is that an antique soda can?


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## hi420 (Mar 26, 2012)

Nice plants! Also, diet rite is my favorite soda  no aspartame.


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## SimonD (Mar 27, 2012)

hi420 said:


> Nice plants! Also, diet rite is my favorite soda  no aspartame.


Thank you. I try to grow out as many free seeds as I can, mostly out of personal interest, given a conducive genetic makeup. There are still surprises, like the NL/BB plants that unexpectedly tapped the working height of my room. I usually run several new (test) strains every season, aside from the free seeds, hoping to find some new moms. 

If folks are interested, I can take a few pre-cured pics now and some cured pics in 6-8 weeks, then post a comparison. FWIW, I'm also water curing some of the Amnesia as a trial run. I'm very impressed by the quality of the flowers, themselves, by the yield, and especially by the potency. I haven't water cured in years; curious how it'll turn out.

Simon


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## Mr.Marijuana420 (Mar 27, 2012)

very nice buds, well done, ENJOY!!!!


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## DSB65 (Mar 27, 2012)

Nice girls man..yes put more pics up.......rep...


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## missnu (Mar 27, 2012)

Those are some nice looking plants...i am getting closer to one of mine finishing...should finish around the 5th or so...almost there...lol...it is always so exciting..


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## SimonD (Mar 27, 2012)

DSB65 said:


> Nice girls man..yes put more pics up.......rep...


A few more pics.

Another batch of free seeds along with a test pack. The pic was shot when the seedlings were 10 days from sprouting. They were flowered yesterday. 







Simon


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## SimonD (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm about to strap myself in for a "fun" night of chopping, so I took a pic of the NL/BB cut down a bit with a ruler for reference.

I'll also post cured pics, and others, as they become relevant. There's some Blue Widow and NY/AK (both free seeds) coming out in a few weeks, as well. 

Simon


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## joliet jake (Mar 28, 2012)

wow!! very nice.


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## dannyboy602 (Mar 28, 2012)

You got you work cut out for you. Better you than me. Ha.
Yeah please post up the pix. Both of pre cured. After cured. And some pix of the water cure method please. I'm not sold on that yet but I'm still learning. I learned a lot this year simonD. The plant takes such abuse and produces no matter what. I bend, snap, tie with scotch tape and LST down some tall branches to keep the canopy smooth. Juicy fruit. They'll be beautiful in a month.
You'll see me in the journals forum. Mr Toads Wild Ride. Peace. db


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## skunkpunk13 (Mar 28, 2012)

subed gonna be harvesting mine in the next few weeks!!


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## SimonD (Mar 29, 2012)

dannyboy602 said:


> You got you work cut out for you. Better you than me. Ha.


Damnit, I hate chopping. It was fun the first few times, maybe even eventful, but now it's just a chore. I was up all night and I'm still not done. The rest will have to wait 'till Friday. There are only two things I like about now: The personal gratification and the educational opportunity; I watch (more like listen to) historical documentaries while working.



> Yeah please post up the pix. Both of pre cured. After cured. And some pix of the water cure method please.


The water cured bud should be ready in a week or so. I only soaked about 1/2 oz. Now that I think about it, should have weight it for a before and after.



> I'm not sold on that yet but I'm still learning. I learned a lot this year simonD. The plant takes such abuse and produces no matter what. I bend, snap, tie with scotch tape and LST down some tall branches to keep the canopy smooth. Juicy fruit. They'll be beautiful in a month.
> You'll see me in the journals forum. Mr Toads Wild Ride. Peace. db


I'll take a look at the journal. 

Simon


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## AltarNation (Mar 29, 2012)

WOW. Fucking beautiful man. Those are amazing looking. REP REP REP.


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## STEADY BLAZING (Mar 31, 2012)

Wow. What light and nute line do u use?


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## SimonD (Mar 31, 2012)

STEADY BLAZING said:


> Wow. What light and nute line do u use?


600HPS' and 1000HPS', Jack's Classic All-Purpose in veg and Blossom Booster in bloom. B'cuzz Pro-Mix right out of the bag. 

http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jack-s-Classic/The-Dynamic-Duo.html


Simon


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## SimonD (Mar 31, 2012)

Folks often ask about drying. This is what I use. The rack(s) fold down flat.

Simon


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## avrum (Apr 1, 2012)

Amazing stuff Simon. I'm subbed for this!


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## Killer Sativa (Apr 1, 2012)

SimonD said:


> 600HPS' and 1000HPS', Jack's Classic All-Purpose in veg and Blossom Booster in bloom. B'cuzz Pro-Mix right out of the bag.
> 
> http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jack-s-Classic/The-Dynamic-Duo.html
> 
> ...


Thats all you use for nutes you must be whispering sweet nothings also.... You always have them best looking bud Simon!


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## SimonD (Apr 5, 2012)

Dinafem Blue Widow. A better photographer could probably get a better image of the colors. The plant is very pretty. It was advertized as a stretcher, but it grew short and stocky.







World of Seeds NY47. This is the single tallest plant I ever grew out indoors. It stretched and stretchered and stretched. Never know how things will go from seed.








A size comparison between the two. You can see the scale of the NY47.




Simon


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## SimonD (Apr 16, 2012)

FemaleSeeds Grapefruit.


Simon


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## JAMES HOOKER (Apr 16, 2012)

Are u LSTing these plants?What was you yeld and how many did you grow?FUken NICE!!!!!


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## SimonD (Apr 16, 2012)

JAMES HOOKER said:


> Are u LSTing these plants?What was you yeld and how many did you grow?FUken NICE!!!!!


Yes, the plants are LST'd and pruned of all secondary branching before flowering. From seed, I prune all secondaries into the first week or so (sometimes 10 days) of bloom. This plant was grown in a 4gal, 12" pot and took up about 1.5ft2 of floor/canopy space. I typically run 1 plant per square foot in a 2gal (10") pot. Don't know the yeild; just choped it last night. I suspect ~6oz dry/cured. Thank you for the kind words.

Simon


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## SimonD (Apr 16, 2012)

It occurred to me that folks may not be familiar with this technique, or may not even be sure of what I'm referring to. The pics are from my tutorial on IC. Above is a Chronic clone after ~4 weeks of veg. It was LST'd at ~10 days after seating in the pot.







Same plant with its branches closest to the front pruned of their secondary growth.







Same plant ready to flower. Notice how the stems are pruned of everything other than the leaves.







Same plant finished.

Simon


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## dozer777 (Apr 16, 2012)

Looks great Simon. You gave me some reveg tips awhile back all of them came back.They are a month old and kicking ass. Thanks for the great advice.


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## JAMES HOOKER (Apr 17, 2012)

Whats your average yeld off each plant you lst?


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## SimonD (Apr 17, 2012)

JAMES HOOKER said:


> Whats your average yeld off each plant you lst?


The plants in the 2gal pots average out to 3-4oz dry/cured, depending, under 1Ks. The Chronic plant seen above yeilded ~2.5oz under 600s.



dozer777 said:


> Looks great Simon. You gave me some reveg tips awhile back all of them came back.They are a month old and kicking ass. Thanks for the great advice.


Glad to hear things are working out.

Simon


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## JAMES HOOKER (Apr 17, 2012)

Wow,I'm only getting 1-1/2 per plant and mine are 4' tall with a 1K HPS light.I'm missing something,


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## phillipchristian (Apr 18, 2012)

polyarcturus said:


> what did they delete your other thread or did everyone figure out your pics are BS?


What up Poly? I think it got deleted cause they finally figured it out. They found the same pics on Simon's icmag account but dated 2006. Then someone else actually claimed the pictures as their own. Whole big mess but apparently their is a question as to the validity of his pictures and the information he is passing around.

Straight off the Wikipedia website (Diet Rite is no longer listed as one of the brands on the RC Cola website).


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## SimonD (Apr 18, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> What up Poly? I think it got deleted cause they finally figured it out. They found the same pics on Simon's icmag account but dated 2006. Then someone else actually claimed the pictures as their own. Whole big mess but apparently their is a question as to the validity of his pictures and the information he is passing around.
> 
> Straight off the Wikipedia website (Diet Rite is no longer listed as one of the brands on the RC Cola website).


Is this some kind of a trolling joke? I've uploaded a total of two threads to this forum. One is stickied above and the other is this. Below is an album on IC where I store the pics I upload here and to my pruning/training tutorial there. If anyone cares, they can correlate the time stamps:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=27576
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=187887

As for Diet Rite, I have no idea what it's even supposed to mean. This is a canna site; the drinking forum is next door.

Simon


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## dozer777 (Apr 18, 2012)

Wow! this is turning into a 15 round bout. But, like I have heard on this site No pics Didn't happen!


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## SimonD (Apr 18, 2012)

Delicious Seeds Fruity Chronic Juice with about a week to go.














I posted a pic of a FMS WW/BB from seed on an earlier page. These are examples of the clones with about 2 weeks to go.






dozer777 said:


> But, like I have heard on this site No pics Didn't happen!


Can't argue with that logic. Trying to decide if I should search for and reference every single post made by phillipchristian mentioning to his 5-6' tall plants. It's a big commitment. That, alone, is bound to fill the page. 







I know the answer. The bogeyman came into phillipchristian's room during the night and rearranged his keyboard. 5-6' was supposed to be 5-6". That's the ticket.

Simon


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## SimonD (May 22, 2012)

Getting down to the last free seed plants of the season.














Fruity Chronic Juice. The second free seed. 















Afghan Kush















NL/BB vegged for 2 weeks. Got a little scared by the first NL/BB seed I flowered.





















Eva Seeds' Vereno. It was grown under 1Ks. All others under 600s. The rest is same as always: Jack's Classic ferts, Pro-Mix, pruned and trained as shown in this thread.
















As I already had them out, a shot of all four.


Simon


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## SimonD (May 22, 2012)

No Coke, Pepsi. LOL

I try to use the same props in my pics in hopes of furthering some sense of unique identification, but I guess the bizzaro world doesn't work the same way. Thanks Roc. 



Simon


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## blindbaby (May 24, 2012)

how obscene!! lol. i thought my bc gods had nice colas. but i recently went from a 600 to a 1k, and from 3 to 5 gal pots. also, stopped foxfarm, adne went to two one parters. terra vega, and flora nova. my plants are fatter allready. and im strugging internally, about how much nutes these babies need. i have heard most peeps feed way to much. others say no. big buds equals big flushes..........what goes in , MUST COME OUT!


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## SimonD (May 26, 2012)

As I like to finish what I start, here are the last of them:














FemaleSeeds C99














Sweet Seeds Blackjack 

That's it for me. After 7 years of working 7 days a week, 365 days a year I'm officially shut down. If anyone needs to get in touch, please feel free to PM me on IC. A big note of thanks to Roc and Kojin.









Simon


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## KidneyStoner420 (May 30, 2012)

A few question cuz those all look Sooooo nice!
How long did you veg for? At what point did you top them and what method? How many times did you crop each plant on average?


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## KidneyStoner420 (May 30, 2012)

A few question cuz those all look Sooooo nice!
How long did you veg for? At what point did you top them and what method? How many times did you crop each plant on average?


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## JASON79 (May 30, 2012)

SimonD said:


> As I like to finish what I start, here are the last of them:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


your plants look very good and the results i am go for, but a lot bigger plant but the same technique
can you tell me if i am vegging the same way as you did 
and flower, these pics are of my plants in week 4 of flower and 4 weeks in veg 

thanks


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## SimonD (May 31, 2012)

KidneyStoner420 said:


> A few question cuz those all look Sooooo nice!
> How long did you veg for? At what point did you top them and what method? How many times did you crop each plant on average?


I veg for 4-5 weeks from seed, and 3-4 weeks from clone for a 2gal pot. 

I don't top at all; takes too long for the plant to recover and there's always a dominant/recessive branch to contend with. LST only. As you can see from the training pics, the methodology is systematic. Everything is done the same way every time in order to arrive at 5-8 main stems at the end of veg. Often I see folks trying to get as many stems to go up as possible. While that can be effective, sometimes, in a smaller garden, for larger grow this sort of thing leads to somewhat fluffy, relatively unprofessional looking product and ultimately less yield. Ask me how I know. 



JASON79 said:


> your plants look very good and the results i am go for, but a lot bigger plant but the same technique
> can you tell me if i am vegging the same way as you did
> and flower, these pics are of my plants in week 4 of flower and 4 weeks in veg
> 
> thanks


Nice garden. I don't remove any leaves. Well, actually, I do very rarely. I happens when a plant has a very close intentional structure and I want to make sure that a secondary branch doesn't grow out of a given spot.

Simon


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## SimonD (May 31, 2012)

From my curing tutorial:



Simon said:


> *Cut the product, trim it per your preference, but don't dry it until the stems snap. Take it down while the stems still have some flex, but the product feel dry on the outside. This is a perfect opportunity to drop the dry-feeling flowers onto a screen and collect prime-quality kief that would otherwise get lost in the jar.*
















An example of the result. This is why I sometimes advise folks to use paper bags and the like with some caution. Of course this greatly depends on the scale and one's opportunities, but I think you get the point.

Simon


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## DSB65 (May 31, 2012)

what kind of screen do you use


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## SimonD (May 31, 2012)

DSB65 said:


> what kind of screen do you use


Stainless steel. IIRC, it's 100dpi.

Simon


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## JASON79 (May 31, 2012)

SimonD said:


> I veg for 4-5 weeks from seed, and 3-4 weeks from clone for a 2gal pot.
> 
> I don't top at all; takes too long for the plant to recover and there's always a dominant/recessive branch to contend with. LST only. As you can see from the training pics, the methodology is systematic. Everything is done the same way every time in order to arrive at 5-8 main stems at the end of veg. Often I see folks trying to get as many stems to go up as possible. While that can be effective, sometimes, in a smaller garden, for larger grow this sort of thing leads to somewhat fluffy, relatively unprofessional looking product and ultimately less yield. Ask me how I know.
> 
> ...


thanks simon


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## missnu (May 31, 2012)

My jesus did you see all that? Pretty snazzy...I get about that much powder If I grind a whole plant to pieces, and then pile all the pieces together...lol


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## dozer777 (May 31, 2012)

SimonD said:


> I veg for 4-5 weeks from seed, and 3-4 weeks from clone for a 2gal pot.
> 
> I don't top at all; takes too long for the plant to recover and there's always a dominant/recessive branch to contend with. LST only. As you can see from the training pics, the methodology is systematic. Everything is done the same way every time in order to arrive at 5-8 main stems at the end of veg. Often I see folks trying to get as many stems to go up as possible. While that can be effective, sometimes, in a smaller garden, for larger grow this sort of thing leads to somewhat fluffy, relatively unprofessional looking product and ultimately less yield. Ask me how I know.
> 
> ...


Once again some great advice Simon. Going to have to PM you for some more advice on my current reveg going. They are 3 weeks since switch to 12/12. Still lots of shit growing underneath canopy.


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## SimonD (Jun 1, 2012)

dozer777 said:


> Once again some great advice Simon. Going to have to PM you for some more advice on my current reveg going. They are 3 weeks since switch to 12/12. Still lots of shit growing underneath canopy.


Hey Dozer. I took a quick look at your thread. Can you post a pic of the bottom growth? Now would be the time to take care of it.



missnu said:


> My jesus did you see all that? Pretty snazzy...I get about that much powder If I grind a whole plant to pieces, and then pile all the pieces together...lol


Keep in mind that it's essentially equivalent to the first sift - best possible quality. 

Once I make hash from the skuff, that pile will look pretty small in comparison. I'll post a pic.

Simon


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## missnu (Jun 1, 2012)

I would be interested in seeing that...Lol...I only do a few small plants at a time every few months...so I never have that much trim to get that much of anything off of I guess...


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## dozer777 (Jun 1, 2012)

Hey Simon pic of one my reveg. The bigger ones have alot more side growth going. I chopped a shitload off them already. Don't want to waste my time on popcorn buds. Any advice appreciated! Don't really want to chop too many leaves. Sorry about shitty pics but you get the idea.


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## SimonD (Jun 2, 2012)

Dozer, a few specifics first. How big is the light and how much canopy space are you allocating to this plant?

Simon


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## dozer777 (Jun 2, 2012)

600 watt hps also, 4 t-8 fluoros for side lighting. Tops are about 10in. from light. The plants are pretty much bunched up together. I do rotate them every day. 4 plants in a 5x7 room.


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## SimonD (Jun 2, 2012)

dozer777 said:


> 600 watt hps also, 4 t-8 fluoros for side lighting. Tops are about 10in. from light. The plants are pretty much bunched up together. I do rotate them every day. 4 plants in a 5x7 room.



OK, fair enough. Looking at the pic, I'd suggest pruning the plant down to ~6 main stems, the biggest/tallest branches. Then, I'd suggest pruning those branches of their secondary growth. How much depends on how the plant looks after the first pruning. I'll help you along, if you decided to go this way. Too, if you can, put a ruler next to the plant so that we can get somewhat precise.

Another suggestion, if you don't mind. Have you considered running a 1000w light? You're using almost as much energy, but without the the benefit of the light intensity. If you have the height and the cooling, it's like firing a shotgun instead of a rifle. Hard to miss. Which lamp and reflector are you using?

Simon


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## dozer777 (Jun 2, 2012)

Radiant 6 air cooled hood Lumatek digital ballast,plantmax bulb. Also running a 200cfm extractor fan on high 24/7 One fan blowing fresh air in bottom of room. 2 oscillating fans running 24/7. I didn't go with a 1000 watt due to temp problems. How about if I bump my 600 watt ballast up to the super lumens setting? This equiptment is also all brand new. There are about 8 main colas going and some side branches that already have nickle size buds going. Do I really want to chop them this far in flower? Don't want them going hermie on me. Though, i'd like to try your method on 1 or 2.


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## SimonD (Jun 2, 2012)

dozer777 said:


> Radiant 6 air cooled hood Lumatek digital ballast,plantmax bulb. Also running a 200cfm extractor fan on high 24/7 One fan blowing fresh air in bottom of room. 2 oscillating fans running 24/7. I didn't go with a 1000 watt due to temp problems. How about if I bump my 600 watt ballast up to the super lumens setting? This equiptment is also all brand new.


I'd only suggest upgrading the lamp. I tested a Plantmax 600HPS a couple of years ago. It measured and produced lose to a 400. IIRC, Plantlightinghydroponics has Sylvanias for ~$40 and 1000bulbs sells GEs for about the same price. They're both very good lamps. The Radiant6 is a fine reflector. You could have done a lot worse.



> There are about 8 main colas going and some side branches that already have nickle size buds going. *Do I really want to chop them this far in flower?* Don't want them going hermie on me. Though, i'd like to try your method on 1 or 2.


That's really up to you. I know how intimidating this can be. If you'd rather wait until your next run, it's perfectly understandable.

The odds of the plant herming are extremely slim, but you will lose some (a little) yield. The upshot is better quality bud on top. 

Simon


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## dozer777 (Jun 2, 2012)

I'm stuck man. Some of the side buds are really taking off now. Alot are only pea size I think i'll at least whack all of them off. Started a new thread to see what folks think. May just take the small shit off. But, thanks again Simon. Next run I will try your way on half and see how it goes. Thanks for the tip on bulbs also.


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## JASON79 (Jun 3, 2012)

hi simond 
could you please tel me if these are the same bulbs you are talking about 

http://www.screwfix.com/p/sylvania-hps-super-tubular-hid-sodium-son-lamp-600w/75889?cm_mmc=GoogleBase-_-Datafeed-_-Electrical and Lighting-_-Sylvania HPS Super Tubular HID Sodium (SON) Lamp 600W# 

thanks as i have 600w Osram Son T Plus, are these any good ?


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## dozer777 (Jun 3, 2012)

SimonD said:


> OK, fair enough. Looking at the pic, I'd suggest pruning the plant down to ~6 main stems, the biggest/tallest branches. Then, I'd suggest pruning those branches of their secondary growth. How much depends on how the plant looks after the first pruning. I'll help you along, if you decided to go this way. Too, if you can, put a ruler next to the plant so that we can get somewhat precise.
> 
> Another suggestion, if you don't mind. Have you considered running a 1000w light? You're using almost as much energy, but without the the benefit of the light intensity. If you have the height and the cooling, it's like firing a shotgun instead of a rifle. Hard to miss. Which lamp and reflector are you using?
> 
> Simon


Well Simon, I went for it and chopped a bunch off all of them this morning. After seeing what you can do I figured why not? Pic of big lady in the room was trimmed after taking picture. Sorry about poor quality pic but, it does show what reveg can do with 6 weeks veg time. Thanks for the advice. Dozer


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## SimonD (Jun 3, 2012)

dozer777 said:


> Well Simon, I went for it and chopped a bunch off all of them this morning. After seeing what you can do I figured why not? Pic of big lady in the room was trimmed after taking picture. Sorry about poor quality pic but, it does show what reveg can do with 6 weeks veg time. Thanks for the advice. Dozer


It's a brave move, sir. My wife used to cringe when I'd take a plant, right before flowering, and strip it of most of its branching. She doesn't anymore. lol

I'd also suggest removing the lowest branch seen in the pic above. Or, you can leave it and see what happens for your own edification. At harvest, you'll see a big difference between it and the others. 

Everything looks great from here.

Simon


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## SimonD (Jun 3, 2012)

JASON79 said:


> hi simond
> could you please tel me if these are the same bulbs you are talking about
> 
> http://www.screwfix.com/p/sylvania-hps-super-tubular-hid-sodium-son-lamp-600w/75889?cm_mmc=GoogleBase-_-Datafeed-_-Electrical and Lighting-_-Sylvania HPS Super Tubular HID Sodium (SON) Lamp 600W#
> ...


These are the lamps I was referring to:

http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/600w-sylvania-hps-mogul-base-grow-bulb-p-1832.html
http://1000bulbs.com/product/52931/LU0600-67610.html

Wow, the GEs are up to ~$50. I used to buy them for $20 at mdhydro. Still not a horrible deal on a quality lamp. IME, they lose ~5% of their output over a year at 12/12. I haven't testes a Son-T of any wattage. When it comes to lamps, as a rule of thumb, go for a product from a "real" company like GE, Philips, Sylvania, Ushio, etc and avoid enhanced spectrum lamps with agro-sounding names made in China. This isn't to say that all industrial lamps are great. For example, 1000bulbs sells a PlusRite (Chinese) 600HPS that's total crap.

Simon


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## JASON79 (Jun 3, 2012)

SimonD said:


> These are the lamps I was referring to:
> 
> http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/600w-sylvania-hps-mogul-base-grow-bulb-p-1832.html
> http://1000bulbs.com/product/52931/LU0600-67610.html
> ...


thanks simon 

i will buy some Sylvania bulbs 

and i have lst my plant in a bubble system, and only let 6-8 main nodes grow and trim the rest off every two weeks up till 2 week in flower and see how it goes


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## dozer777 (Jun 3, 2012)

I was wondering about the side growth on pic above. Whack it and balance it out? I'm already this far in. What's a little more? Think i'll go with your suggestion. Thanks man!


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## JASON79 (Jun 4, 2012)

i would have cut the bottom left branch off if this was my plant as its to far from the light but its best if simond says to cut or not


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## SimonD (Jun 4, 2012)

If it were my plant, I'd prune the bottom branch.

Simon


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## dozer777 (Jun 4, 2012)

Already did it this morning. They certainly look alot different after the haircut. Hoping it makes for a better harvest.


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## JASON79 (Jun 4, 2012)

simon do you find bonsia trees any good for a mother plant ?


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## SimonD (Jun 5, 2012)

Made some hash yesterday. Two runs. These are the results.

Simon


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## thump easy (Jun 5, 2012)

i like them i like them alot!!!!


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## SimonD (Jun 5, 2012)

JASON79 said:


> simon do you find bonsia trees any good for a mother plant ?


I don't keep moms as such. I'll flower a run of plants, take clones, then flower the clones and so on. Sometimes, like right now, I keep a few clones back so that I can start back up again in the fall. They'll tun into bigger plants (moms) toward August. I'll take clones, then, for an entire run and likely kill the plants as they'll be too big to flower as effectively. Hope that made sense.

Simon


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## JASON79 (Jun 5, 2012)

SimonD said:


> I don't keep moms as such. I'll flower a run of plants, take clones, then flower the clones and so on. Sometimes, like right now, I keep a few clones back so that I can start back up again in the fall. They'll tun into bigger plants (moms) toward August. I'll take clones, then, for an entire run and likely kill the plants as they'll be too big to flower as effectively. Hope that made sense.
> 
> Simon


ok thanks simon, so you just take clones before you flower them


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## JASON79 (Jun 5, 2012)

SimonD said:


> Made some hash yesterday. Two runs. These are the results.
> 
> Simon


looks like a good amount of quality hash there


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## SimonD (Jun 6, 2012)

JASON79 said:


> ok thanks simon, so you just take clones before you flower them


I truly believe there's elegance in simplicity. Looking around the forum, folks fool around with air conditioning systems, water chillers, humidifiers.... I don't use any of that. Just lights, fans, Pro-Mix and a commercial fertilizer. Nothing else. No magic wands, no miracle potions. If I may wax poetic for a moment, there are two major elements to any pursuit - internal and external. In our case, the internal element can be defined as grower skill and the external as all other elements including the environment, the equipment, and arguably the most important, the genetics.

Genetics are crucial. I spend a good amount of time and resources on free seed plants, test runs and the like. The ones I don't keep are posted in this thread. The others will become next season' crop, but I digress. Genetics can mean the difference between a 1oz and a 4 oz plant. Literally. They define the smell, the potency, the bag appeal. All things staying equal, everything rests on the genetics. 

My personal experience is such that finding a great plant is a crap shoot. For example, I flowered a free seed not expecting much, as the strain typically yields low. I grew it out solely out of personal curiosity. I actually had two seeds. The plants grew side by side. One yielded 4oz of the smelliest shit you'll get your hands on, beautiful buds hard as a rock that finished in 9 weeks (from seed). The other didn't do badly. It was a ~2.5oz plant with a muskier, earthier smell and a slightly fluffier structure. In September, I'm going out with a full run of the 4-ouncer. I'm convinced that if I were to buy a pack of the strain, as I've done many times hoping to do better, I wouldn't get the same plant again. So, I'm guarding the clone with my life! 

Simon


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## BigBuddahCheese (Jun 6, 2012)

Nice plants for sure.. I found many a gem with free seeds. Love em!


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## JASON79 (Jun 6, 2012)

SimonD said:


> I truly believe there's elegance in simplicity. Looking around the forum, folks fool around with air conditioning systems, water chillers, humidifiers.... I don't use any of that. Just lights, fans, Pro-Mix and a commercial fertilizer. Nothing else. No magic wands, no miracle potions. If I may wax poetic for a moment, there are two major elements to any pursuit - internal and external. In our case, the internal element can be defined as grower skill and the external as all other elements including the environment, the equipment, and arguably the most important, the genetics.
> 
> Genetics are crucial. I spend a good amount of time and resources on free seed plants, test runs and the like. The ones I don't keep are posted in this thread. The others will become next season' crop, but I digress. Genetics can mean the difference between a 1oz and a 4 oz plant. Literally. They define the smell, the potency, the bag appeal. All things staying equal, everything rests on the genetics.
> 
> ...



hi simon 
so you can get good phenotype from any strain and that how you hit big yeilds 
its just pot luck if you have one in the pack or not 

so i have not used any boosters, just grow and bloom nutes so that is all you need 
i was thinking most of these extra nutes are just to get growers to pay out more and hope it would increase there yeild 

thanks simon


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## SimonD (Jun 8, 2012)

JASON79 said:


> hi simon
> so you can get good phenotype from any strain and that how you hit big yeilds
> its just pot luck if you have one in the pack or not


Generally speaking, yes. Keep in mind that I mostly work with Indica-dom hybrids.



> so i have not used any boosters, just grow and bloom nutes so that is all you need
> i was thinking most of these extra nutes are just to get growers to pay out more and hope it would increase there yeild


It seems like many new growers overcomplicate their feeding regiments. In some ways it's understandable. Growbooks paint a picture that's requires a good deal of complexity, forum posts support the same idea, as they're mostly written by folks who have little experience of their own, and the cycle continues. This isn't to say that those folks are all wrong. There are many ways to skin a cat. I prefer simple and relatively foolproof. You may notice that I use a complete fertilizer. Just add to water and pour into the pots. I've never measured/checked pH - never had a reason to - and I don't feed by measuring PPMs. Everything is systematic. The plants are fed the same every time, relative to their place in the cycle and the strain's (general) response to the fertilizer.



> thanks simon


My pleasure. Folks rarely ask me practical questions about growing weed.

Simon


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## dozer777 (Jun 12, 2012)

Hey Simon,quick update since taking your advice on trimming. My big girls can't come out of the room anymore due to there size. This is my 3rd best. Thanks. 5 weeks today since switch to 12/12. 4 more weeks to go. It should be good!


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 19, 2012)

here are some pics of the current grow i've got going at my house. i'm using sunshine #4 advanced mix with about 20% worm castings mixed in. i also run and extra cup or two of perlite on top just so they dry out a little faster. i used advanced nutrients sensi grow a&b and voodoo juice for veg with some botanicare cal/mag plus as needed cause i use r/o water. for flower i used advanced nutrients connoisseur a&b, a few of the advanced additives and cal mag as needed. for clones i use rockwool, thrive alive b-1 red, and superthrive as a foliar spray. i spray my plants with neem oil every 2 weeks throughout veg as a preventative measure.

i run my 2 4x8 tents on a chillking 3hp self contained chiller. they are in my garage and it's really hot where i am so running a chiller is more expensive upfront but much more efficient. plus it allows me to cool my lights, co2 generator, reservoir when i do hydro, and act as a spot a/c for each tent. i run 2 blockbuster hoods in each tent with hortilux 600w bulbs, lumatek ballasts, CAN fans & filters, C.A.P. light controllers, fan temp controllers and hot strike/high temp boxes. i also run 6 100w UV bulbs in the flower tent for three increments of 3 hours for the duration of flower for thc maturing.

i'm running a perpetual with 6 plants every month. these girls went to 12/12 10 days ago. for the first 10-14 days of flower i use MH lights and veg nutes with a small PK boost from the connoisseur part B. plants are topped and LST'd throughout veg and then let go a week or so before switching them to the flower tent.

View attachment 2220157 View attachment 2220158 View attachment 2220147

View attachment 2220156 View attachment 2220148



thesr girls are day 55 of 12/12. i run them on flower nutes with a little N boost from sensi grow part A (3-0-0). the strain is Sour Diesel i believe. i thought i planted Chees but i think i got the bags confused after looking at previous pics of Sour and Cheese harvests. oh well. trying to pull 800g off 4 plants. probably be more like 650g.

View attachment 2220153 View attachment 2220154 View attachment 2220155

View attachment 2220150 View attachment 2220152

View attachment 2220151 View attachment 2220149

that's my formula...keep them frosty fellas.


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## SimonD (Jun 20, 2012)

That's a very nice little plant, Phil. Thanks for sharing.

Simon


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 20, 2012)

SimonD said:


> That's a very nice little plant, Phil. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Simon


well, you know, growing in a tent has it's restrictions. i'm happy with 160-200g per plant under a 600w. should come in around 700g off those 4. not really 1gpw though cause i do have the UV flood lamps.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 21, 2012)

here's some more pics...hope you enjoy. 

these 6 are the ones going into flower when i pull those others out. been pulling them out during the day as i do some mods to the tents to get ready for a new chiller and some upgrades.
View attachment 2222161 View attachment 2222160


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## SimonD (Jun 21, 2012)

You already posted the first 4 pics here yesterday. Now you're posting them here again. Great, I guess. Not really sure why you need my approval.



ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> been pulling them out during the day as i do some mods to the tents to get ready for a new chiller and some upgrades.


I just have to ask, how much have you spent on this so far? Seriously. How much has this cost you? You previously mentioned something to the tune of ~$19K. Noting your errr success and the time it took, I'll make you the same offer as I did a couple of months ago: If you make me feel comfortable, I'll just sell you the bud and save you the money, the time, the aggravation and the embarrassment. Let me know.

Simon


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 21, 2012)

oops, sorry. didn't realize i double posted those. i'll take care of that immediately.


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## SimonD (Jun 21, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> oops, sorry. didn't realize i double posted those. i'll take care of that immediately.


Let me know about the bud, regardless. $19K and 5lbs are yours.

Simon


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 21, 2012)

SimonD said:


> You already posted the first 4 pics here yesterday. Now you're posting them here again. Great, I guess. Not really sure why you need my approval.
> 
> I just have to ask, how much have you spent on this so far? Seriously. How much has this cost you? You previously mentioned something to the tune of ~$19K. Noting your errr success and the time it took, I'll make you the same offer as I did a couple of months ago: If you make me feel comfortable, I'll just sell you the bud and save you the money, the time, the aggravation and the embarrassment. Let me know.
> 
> Simon


i'm not sure why you think the plants are "so little"? seems to me like some of my vegging plants are bigger than the ones you posted earlier in this thread. plus those flower shots don't look so small to me. oh well. your thread and you are entitled to your opinion.

why would i buy bud from you? that would seem illegal and very weird. plus, i'm in a different country than you and it sure looks like i'm growing some quality stuff on my own.

as far as costs goes...i would say $19k probably is close to it. a lot of that is $5k for the chiller and another $3000 to ship the pallets down here. then you've got growlab tents, lumatek ballasts, hortilux & digilux bulbs, co2 generator, fans, filters, ice boxes, nutes, soil, pots, etc... a lot of stuff i order in bulk cause i don't want to be ordering nutes 4 times a year. plus i have to order extra of a lot of things (bulbs, ballasts, etc...) just in case something breaks. it's not that easy where i live. there are no hydro stores down here. 

as for the price...well...to each their own. how i choose to spend the money in my bank account shouldn't really rile your feathers. i mean some people drive pickup trucks and others drive ferrari's. i don't hate on guys who spend crazy money on their cars or clothes. to each their own and as long as you aren't starving your family you earned that money so how you spend it is up to you.


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## SimonD (Jun 21, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> as far as costs goes...i would say $19k probably is close to it. a lot of that is $5k for the chiller and another $3000 to ship the pallets down here. then you've got growlab tents, lumatek ballasts, hortilux & digilux bulbs, co2 generator, fans, filters, ice boxes, nutes, soil, pots, etc... a lot of stuff i order in bulk cause i don't want to be ordering nutes 4 times a year. plus i have to order extra of a lot of things (bulbs, ballasts, etc...) just in case something breaks. it's not that easy where i live. there are no hydro stores down here.


Looking at all the pics you posted (including the "experimental SOG" in a kitchen cabinet. I included the Photoshopped/cropped pic you posted and re-cropped and re-posted, and re-re-cropped and re-re-posted below) and assuming the best, there's maybe 1/3lb of weed total that could have been produced by your hand over the course of 6 months-2 years, depending on which of your multiple claims is to be believed ... or not. Given your never-ending expenditures, how do you justify such astonishing lack of cultivation ability in your own mind?

Simon


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## dozer777 (Jun 21, 2012)

Hey Simon 6 weeks in flower.Used a little molasses last run not really sure if it helped. 3 weeks left wondering if I should give them a blast in the next few days. Thanks Dozer


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## SimonD (Jun 21, 2012)

dozer777 said:


> Hey Simon 6 weeks in flower.Used a little mollasses last run not really sure if it helped. 3 weeks left wondering if I should give them a blast in the next few days. Thanks Dozer


Hey Dozer. I've never used molasses, so I really don't know. In my garden, I feed full-strength until about week 7, depending, and then decrease the fertilizer concentration to 1/2 in the following week and 1/4 strength for the last week of bloom.

Simon


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 21, 2012)

SimonD said:


> Looking at all the pics you posted (including the "experimental SOG" in a kitchen cabinet. I included the Photoshopped/cropped pic you posted and re-cropped and re-posted, and re-re-cropped and re-re-posted below) and assuming the best, there's maybe 1/3lb of weed total that could have been produced by your hand over the course of 6 months-2 years, depending on which of your multiple claims is to be believed ... or not. Given your never-ending expenditures, how do you justify such astonishing lack of cultivation ability in your own mind?
> 
> Simon


ahhh...my first run with sour chiesel. she was a beauty! i'm not quite getting how you come up with a third of a pound though. that's 2 plants alone in that pic and probably yielded a third by themselves. i guess you haven't been paying attention to the pics i've posted. those plants, my experimental SOG grow and my current plants sure look like quality to me and quite a few others who have commented as to their yields and appearance. i guess you are the ONLY person here who doesn't think they are nice buds. oh well...opinions are like assholes...everyone's got em.


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## dozer777 (Jun 21, 2012)

SimonD said:


> Hey Dozer. I've never used molasses, so I really don't know. In my garden, I feed full-strength until about week 7, depending, and then decrease the fertilizer concentration to 1/2 in the following week and 1/4 strength for the last week of bloom.
> 
> Simon


Hey man didn't really want to use it this run anyway. A few rusty leaves going but, still pretty green.


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## dozer777 (Jun 21, 2012)

What's up with you and Phillip? I'm an old guy and let shit go! You grow some of the best indoor buds on this site. We are all here to help I think for newbies. Both of you guys need to let this go from my stand point! Phillip nice buds man! Simon keep helping us new guys! Peace Brothers were all about the same thing!! Dozer


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## SimonD (Jun 21, 2012)

dozer777 said:


> What's up with you and Phillip?


Since you ask ... 

I can't possibly tell you the whole story with the span of a few paragraphs; it's simply too involved with all of Phil's ghost accounts and endless lies. In essence, Phil is a fraud. He was no 18K room, as he claimed, and most obviously cannot grow for shit to begin with. You should have seen the posts where he had employees - *employees* - working his op. There are entire threads where he talks to himself using one account after another. Look around; it's one lie after another. Just click on _any_ of his current posts and read the threads. Really. Here is an example from today where he was confronted with posting fake pics: Link---> https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/496723-beat-my-bud-39.html#post7602682 

Here's what I can tell you from ~10 years on canna boards. There's a certain sort of individual who accomplished nothing and comes on, finds the expert in a given field, and begins to engage him in endless debates. Phil is a little different, as he launches multiple ghost accounts to help him argue endlessly, making the whole thing far more involved. Then he starts inventing lies about the folks he engages, trolling them in further, disrupting the forum at its core. Boards like IC ban these folks almost immediately. For reason I cannot fathom, he's still allowed to post here and derail fruitful threads. 

For a few cheap laughs, here's a fantastic thread with Phil as Nuglets (his first-grow ghost account where he asked actual cultivation questions to help him grow 4 nodes in 5 weeks) wondering where his rep went. Link: https://www.rollitup.org/support/529474-where-did-my-rep-go.html

Once in a while Phil likes to stop by and show himself to me, like he did here. Mostly, he does it with his latest ghost accounts as if to say, "Fooled you!" He's a disturbed man, but truly entertaining. He's probably my biggest fan.

Simon


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## dozer777 (Jun 21, 2012)

Wow enough said! Guess I'll stick with your advice. Your reveg tips certainly working for me! Now i"m growing 4 plants instead of 8.


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## SimonD (Jun 21, 2012)

dozer777 said:


> Wow enough said!


Remember how I said he starts inventing lies, when things don't go his way? There you go. lol

Simon


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## dozer777 (Jun 21, 2012)

Why can't you guys just play fair and stay OFF one anothers threads? Pretty simple really. There are plenty of topics on RIU so you can both give your input. Peace Bro's


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## SimonD (Jun 21, 2012)

dozer777 said:


> Why can't you guys just play fair and stay OFF one anothers threads? Pretty simple really.


Can't say that I disagree. For whatever reason, Phil needs my validation and then gets frustrated when it's denied. Then he begins inventing lies in hopes of a reprieve. And it just keeps on going. Take a look at the link'd thread from Support where the admin outs his multiple names, but he still on keeps lying. Hell, he even posted a Photoshopped note from the admin supposedly exonerating him, then deleted its trail after folks laughed. I can't possibly recite everything the guy's done. Every day is something new. Sad, really.

Simon


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## dozer777 (Jun 21, 2012)

Haven't gotten any bad advice from you Simon. I said what I had to say about bickering back and forth. You and a couple other members have given me great advice on my indoor deal. Pretty much a mr ganja when it comes to outdoor. 30 years plus outdoors. Guys like you keep this site worth looking into for newbies! Don't let stupid shit get you down. Folks like you make it work!


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jun 21, 2012)

Save the drama for yo mama guys. It's just getting annoying for everyone. Simon, be the bigger man and just walk away. 
Frauds will always be frauds. Everyone knows that, and sees shaggy for who he is. It's no different than "unlucky", that bizzo is a he. Lol


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## k0ijn (Jun 22, 2012)

I've had enough of this.

Can we keep it on topic here guys?
This bickering has been going on for way too long.


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## JASON79 (Jun 23, 2012)

simon d does give good advice 

and has giving me lots to think about and help,

i can grow big yields in soil but enjoy learning new way of growing, to improve my skills and to help others growers


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## SimonD (Jun 23, 2012)

^^^ Just saw your plant; I'm still exploring the site's features. Very nice! How long did it flower?

Simon


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## JASON79 (Jun 23, 2012)

hi simon 

l flowered for just under 8 weeks and veg for about 7 weeks 


thanks


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 24, 2012)

here you go fellas. a couple harvest pics. got 1 plants done. 3 more to go. gonna be close to 1gpw.

View attachment 2227045 View attachment 2227044

View attachment 2227043 View attachment 2227042


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## SimonD (Jun 24, 2012)

Congratulations on your first harvest. It's hard to make 7 months fly by.

Simon


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 24, 2012)

SimonD said:


> Congratulations on your first harvest. It's hard to make 7 months fly by.
> 
> Simon


that would be one hell of a first harvest. i wish i got plants like that on my first harvest; but unfortunately it's been 12 years of harvests. lol. takes a little practice to produce buds like that.


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## dozer777 (Jun 25, 2012)

Hey Simon 7 weeks tomorrow on reveg since switch to 12/12. A few more weeks. Had to start tying them up. Buds are swelling and getting fat!


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## SimonD (Jun 25, 2012)

Looking good! How much distance is there between the canopy and the reflector? Are you still using the same lamp?

Simon


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## dozer777 (Jun 25, 2012)

SimonD said:


> Looking good! How much distance is there between the canopy and the reflector? Are you still using the same lamp?
> 
> Simon


Yes, same lamp for now. Going to buy a new one after this harvest. Tops are 18in away from lamp. Had them about a foot away before but, ran into heat issues. Problem solved now. Should I put them closer or leave em' be? And thanks for the tips on reveg and the compliment.


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 30, 2012)

hey simon, here's a few pics from the room. only got half going right now. holding the others back another week to get back on the 30 dau schedule. day 23 right now.

View attachment 2235165 View attachment 2235166

View attachment 2235167 View attachment 2235168

View attachment 2235169 View attachment 2235170


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## BuddySkunk (Jun 30, 2012)

Smoke some for me.


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## weed.senior (Jul 4, 2012)

Simon, I hate you  This shits gets real when experience and pleasure to grow are united. Congrats for your awesome results!!!


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## dozer777 (Jul 5, 2012)

Hey Simon. Started harvest the other day. Here's a few pics. This is my best girl I chopped this morning. One more to go.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jul 5, 2012)

Nice crop Dozer! Looks great. Can't go wrong with Simon's techniques!


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## dozer777 (Jul 5, 2012)

I hear ya! Chopping off all the bottom third of plants gave me some nice colas.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jul 5, 2012)

Nice. I'm in the process of my first LST 12/12 from seed. Just starting to show sex 2 weeks ago


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## matt7835706 (Jul 5, 2012)

Hey simon, Outstand work, I love how you take the time to give advise so freely. I've seen you around just didn't know your a master grower.

Can you give me a few pointers on your pruning techinques?

This is so bad on my part because I tell everyone not to prune, but man the weight your pulling with 4 weeks veg, I have to try a side by side.

I just so happen to have to plant that are so similar that it would be perfect, they are 20 days into flowering is that to late?

Anyway I can post a picture or my grow journal document my plant very well and up to date if you want to peek at that https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/537747-el-nino-sweet-diesal-train.html.

Thanks for you time
Matt


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## dozer777 (Jul 5, 2012)

KidneyStoner420 said:


> Nice. I'm in the process of my first LST 12/12 from seed. Just starting to show sex 2 weeks ago


I have 15 PK clones under t-8s right now. Using my veg room for drying right now. Temps 70 humidity 50%. Going to dry in there for a few more days then put my clones in there. Tempted to take Del's advice and put them right on 12/12. They are just getting going now. Took them from my best girl 3 weeks into flower. They look just like reveg. Going to give them a week on 24/7 under the 600 mh. Then switch to flower. Small 1gl pots this run. See what happens.


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## dvs1038 (Jul 5, 2012)

Hey Dozer u were sayin u cut the bottom 3rd of ur plant, I'm lstin a few plants for the 1st time they r bout 2wks into flowering and there r so many tiny growth shoots growin on the inside of the plant covered by the canopy is that the sort of stuff that u trimmed? Here is a pic of the whole plant I'll try to get one when the lights come on showin some of the smaller growth I'm talkin bout. I've cloned it already plus I still have seeds, its from a previous outdoor grow hermie plant its Orange Crush.


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## dozer777 (Jul 6, 2012)

dvs1038 said:


> Hey Dozer u were sayin u cut the bottom 3rd of ur plant, I'm lstin a few plants for the 1st time they r bout 2wks into flowering and there r so many tiny growth shoots growin on the inside of the plant covered by the canopy is that the sort of stuff that u trimmed? Here is a pic of the whole plant I'll try to get one when the lights come on showin some of the smaller growth I'm talkin bout. I've cloned it already plus I still have seeds, its from a previous outdoor grow hermie plant its Orange Crush.
> View attachment 2242013View attachment 2242014View attachment 2242015


Nice looking plant. Good lst job. I cut all the small branches off the bottom third. And some secondary branches off upper stems. Tried to only have 8 main branches going. I cut them off 3 weeks into flowering. Only slowed them down for a day. If your going to do it better get chopping. Good Luck!


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## dozer777 (Jul 6, 2012)

Smallest and last plant to chop today. 59 days in flower.


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## dozer777 (Jul 6, 2012)

All done for this run! 520 grams wet. On to the next run. Thanks for the great advice Simon!


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## SimonD (Jul 7, 2012)

dozer777 said:


> All done for this run! 520 grams wet. On to the next run. Thanks for the great advice Simon!


Great job! Congratulations. I wanted to say something earlier, but just didn't have a real opportunity.

Simon


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## SimonD (Jul 7, 2012)

matt7835706 said:


> Hey simon, Outstand work, I love how you take the time to give advise so freely. I've seen you around just didn't know your a master grower.
> 
> Can you give me a few pointers on your pruning techinques?
> 
> ...


Hi Matt. Let me take a look at your thread.

Simon


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## matt7835706 (Jul 7, 2012)

SimonD said:


> Hi Matt. Let me take a look at your thread.
> 
> Simon


Thanks, _actually_ just went ahead last night and took about the bottom 1/5 of the plant foliage off, not sure if that was the right thing to do but i guess time will tell. Love to hear you thoughts though.


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## SimonD (Jul 8, 2012)

matt7835706 said:


> Thanks, _actually_ just went ahead last night and took about the bottom 1/5 of the plant foliage off, not sure if that was the right thing to do but i guess time will tell. Love to hear you thoughts though.



Just to be clear, I don't suggest removing all the foliage. Only the secondary branching. I try to leave as many leaves in place as I can. This being said, if you did remove some of the leaves, it's really not a big deal in this stage of the game. 







^^^ Very nice.

From day-1, indoors, I've LST'd every plant. Other than a few controlled runs, this is all I've done. I'm saying this, because some of your plants may be a bit late to bend. The plant all the way to the back (toward the left) looks like it can be bent pretty easily. OTOH, the plant on the front right looks like its stem may be quite thick. That can be hard to work with, IME. From clone, thick-stemmed plants can be LST'd at 5-6 nodes, when they're fairly pliable right after seating. I have seen similar methodology used in a tree-like garden, albeit in SOG with clones vegged for ~10 days. That's where I originally got the idea and over time worked it into my garden. 

Simon


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## HapaHaole (Jul 8, 2012)

dozer777 said:


> Hey Simon. Started harvest the other day. Here's a few pics. This is my best girl I chopped this morning. One more to go.


EXCELLENT job! You did great and they look beautiful!


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## HapaHaole (Jul 8, 2012)

dozer777 said:


> All done for this run! 520 grams wet. On to the next run. Thanks for the great advice Simon!


YAY!!! Well done. I'll be lookin for ur next go around too...


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## dozer777 (Jul 8, 2012)

Not sure if it's going to be indoor or outdoor. Got a couple ladies in the woods wanting to give birth early. I'm okay with that as long as they are big kids! Others in room are 6 weeks out.


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## dozer777 (Jul 8, 2012)

By the way. Even took Simons advice on this lady. Soon as she started to show signs of flower, I whacked all the bottom shit off her. Hard to tell by pic but I cut a third off her fat ass!


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## chinaoreo (Jul 9, 2012)

SimonD said:


> It occurred to me that folks may not be familiar with this technique, or may not even be sure of what I'm referring to. The pics are from my tutorial on IC. Above is a Chronic clone after ~4 weeks of veg. It was LST'd at ~10 days after seating in the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hey simon

im trying this technigue for the first time..my plants are 1 week in flower.. there are sooo many side shoots ranging from 1 to 6 inches... so basically i understand im pruning everything but the big main stems..and a few strong side shoots..? also another big question is on the top 6 of 8 inches of each mainstem are all those 1 to 2 inch long shoots..only being a week into flower theres not much bud on them but if i trim all of them off then where is the bud going to grow..? at the leaf to stem node right beside the cut off little shoot..? hope this doesnt seem like a stupid question im just trying to figure this out.. thanks for your help..!


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## SimonD (Jul 9, 2012)

chinaoreo said:


> hey simon
> 
> im trying this technigue for the first time..my plants are 1 week in flower.. there are sooo many side shoots ranging from 1 to 6 inches... so basically i understand im pruning everything but the big main stems..and a few strong side shoots..?


I don't leave any side shoots (secondary branching) on my plants. They're pruned and flowered almost immediately thereafter. From seed, there's a bit more room to work with, as the plant typically stretches more and takes longer to begin to flower than its clone. In those situations, I prune the secondaries into the first week. This being said, it's not something I suggest to others. As a newer grower, you're better off being a bit conservative and adapting given techniques as they fit your needs.



> also another big question is on the top 6 of 8 inches of each mainstem are all those 1 to 2 inch long shoots..only being a week into flower theres not much bud on them but if i trim all of them off then where is the bud going to grow..? at the leaf to stem node right beside the cut off little shoot..? hope this doesnt seem like a stupid question im just trying to figure this out.. thanks for your help..!


In essence, I rely on the stretch to form the flower clusters. Not sure if it answers your question.

Simon


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## matt7835706 (Jul 9, 2012)

SimonD said:


> Just to be clear, I don't suggest removing all the foliage. Only the secondary branching. I try to leave as many leaves in place as I can. This being said, if you did remove some of the leaves, it's really not a big deal in this stage of the game.
> 
> From day-1, indoors, I've LST'd every plant. Other than a few controlled runs, this is all I've done. I'm saying this, because some of your plants may be a bit late to bend. The plant all the way to the back (toward the left) looks like it can be bent pretty easily. OTOH, the plant on the front right looks like its stem may be quite thick. That can be hard to work with, IME. From clone, thick-stemmed plants can be LST'd at 5-6 nodes, when they're fairly pliable right after seating. I have seen similar methodology used in a tree-like garden, albeit in SOG with clones vegged for ~10 days. That's where I originally got the idea and over time worked it into my garden.
> 
> Simon


I bent these front two for about two weeks in veg to let some of the small shout catch up to the top canapy, I think i should have kept them tied for a bit longer into the flowering stage or somthing. they don't look quit like yours. The one in the back is just the way mother nature intended no bending or cutting. If you look at the most recent posts you can see that the front plants have about four to six top colas from the first attemt at lst, im going to be more aggresive on the next generation.

Thanks
Matt


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## JASON79 (Jul 9, 2012)

dozer777 said:


> All done for this run! 520 grams wet. On to the next run. Thanks for the great advice Simon!


hi dozer
well done about 4 oz's dry weight


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## chinaoreo (Jul 10, 2012)

*In essence, I rely on the stretch to form the flower clusters. Not sure if it answers your question.

Simon 

*ok simon thanks.. so im assuming the bud is going to start at the only flowers left..the very tops..and work its way down the stem..? im not a newbie but ive never trimmed side shoots off other than cloning and lower stuff. but i gave em the haircut last nite.. the only difficult part for me is deciding what constitutes as a main stem or just a nice side shoot.. my plants are topped so they have more than one mainstem but in my mind a untopped plant only has 1 mainstem everything else is side growth off the mainstem..is this not accurate..? i think i may have went too far on the trim well see.. i ended up with about 5 tops on each plant..i see yours have 7-8 +.....there bout 1.5" in 5 gal buckets..they were very bushy but after trimming all the side shoots now there just towers of mainstems..lol


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## chinaoreo (Jul 10, 2012)

btw simon.. i read someone else say it and i too looove your growing style.. way back when i first started growing i used peters ferts and had spectactular results.. anywho i got my jacks classic on order be here in a couple days.. you dont see any problems using jacks with coco/perlite mix do ya..? extra calmag maybe.? im using cns17 now. oh also im running 600s over 4x4 squares but getting ready to add more lights and tighten them up to 3x3 squares or 3.5X3.5..? so im lookin at running 6 or 8 lights in the room.. my question is would i be better off A: clustering the lights in the middle of the room(so i can walk around the perimeter and the lights will ALL overlap).OR...B: running the lights in a single row along side the walls(as i have now and i can walk thru the middle)but since its just a single row theres only blended light on the sides. hope this makes sense.. thanks for any input.simon u the man..! lol


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## chinaoreo (Jul 10, 2012)

guess i should mention ofcours with the lights in a row against the wall the light reflects back if they were in the middle there would be no walls to reflect..unless i made some movable walls..??


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## chinaoreo (Jul 10, 2012)

and since pics are worth 1000 words.. my current set up..sorry for the dark pics.

and simon im learning.. lol


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## chinaoreo (Jul 11, 2012)

lol i just realized something when i came back here to check for updates... am i thread jacking..?!?..lol sorry simon if i did..as u can see from my post im a forum newbie..anyway had to throw that out.. maybe simon will be back here someday....lol


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## chinaoreo (Jul 13, 2012)

too much of a haircut..? was only a week into flower and trimmed all the side shoots..these cutoff ones shown here on a top stem were about 1/2-3/4 when i trimmed em.. so will the bud actually fill out the stem without these or did i just cut off the buds early..??..lol thanks simon for any help..!


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## vagellie007 (Aug 29, 2012)

wow that shit is amazing bro, how long do u dry it out for?


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## jreven (Aug 31, 2012)

wow. awesome man.


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## virus effect (Sep 3, 2012)

Holy shit bro i wouldnt change a thing if your getting results like that chinaoreo, also this is a great read asides from the part with the bitching 
-Virus-


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## SimonD (Sep 22, 2012)

I hope everyone had a good summer. I'm about to start a new season. Haven' worked since May, so I may be a bit rusty, but it was really nice to get a break from growing. No free seed plants, yet. To be perfectly honest, I don't have a whole lot of seeds still around. I flowered pretty much all I had - at least the non-weirdo genetics - in hopes of finding a number of working moms for this season and likely the next two or three, to some extent. Over the summer, I tested the market (if you will) with the bud I plan to offer this season and let's just say the selection process was a great success (insert Borat voice). I don't feel comfortable mentioning specifics for security reasons, but I will say that 3 out 5 strains I'm working with commercially were derived from free seeds. I hope post new pics later in the season, once I get some new seeds. 

All the best to everyone,
Simon


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## Izoc666 (Sep 23, 2012)

SimonD, its very nice thread !

first of all , yeah i had a good summer 

this will be same thread when you re starting a new season ? thanks.

happy gardening.


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## patsbrady0345 (Sep 23, 2012)

Im just so jealous wtf those are all wow!


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## SimonD (Sep 26, 2012)

Izoc666 said:


> SimonD, its very nice thread !
> 
> first of all , yeah i had a good summer
> 
> ...


Hi Izoc! Nice to see you. If I can find a seedbank that'll give me a bunch of free fems with a purchase, I'll likely grow them out and post the pics. Attitude's October offer isn't that great, so I'm still looking. I'll likely order, anyway, though. lol

I still have the Diet Rite can, so half the work is already done. 

Simon


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## SimonD (Sep 27, 2012)

I've been trying to think of something useful to post, so let me talk a bit about keeping plants alive and small for an extended period. I finished last season at the end of May and shut down the garden. I planted 2 (each) of the 5 moms I'll be running this year, later culling one of each as they seated in their pots, leaving 5 very small plants in 6" square pots. Mind you, this was late-May/early-June and I needed working stock in mid-September. That's a lot of time in the life of a plant that grows as fast as canna.

Contrary to what one reads on the forums, essentially regurgitated from some growbook, IMNSHE, MHs are relatively poor lights for quick growth. As such, I used a 150MH in a SSII/Galaxy ballast, all housed in a small cab. The light sat ~1' above the clones and produced the absolute slowest growth I've seen since trying to veg under 2x600MH. By September, the clones (LST'd by then) were maybe 8" tall, albeit with a couple of dozen main stems. The summer was totally painless, as the tiny garden needed very little upkeep, and the moms were ready in time to donate their clones. Hopefully, someone can make use of this.

Simon


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## k0ijn (Sep 27, 2012)

Looking forward to your new season of growing Simon.

It's always fun to see a proper grower use his skills to the fullest, have a good one


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## KidneyStoner420 (Oct 1, 2012)

Simon! Long time no see. How have you been?


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## SimonD (Oct 3, 2012)

KidneyStoner420 said:


> Simon! Long time no see. How have you been?


Hey KS! Hope all is well in your world. 

Simon


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## Kybudz (Oct 4, 2012)

Gotta ask you simon how was g13 pineapple express. Got one in veg .was it any good?


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## SimonD (Oct 4, 2012)

Kybudz said:


> Gotta ask you simon how was g13 pineapple express. Got one in veg .was it any good?


I grew out a few PEs over a couple of cycles. The final product smelled and tasted great, the bud wasn't rock-hard and I can see how it could even turn a little fluffy under smaller lights or less favorable conditions, and the yield was good. Not great, but good. Its potency was, maybe, a 7 on a scale of 1-10. Definitely worth the time.

Simon


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## KidneyStoner420 (Oct 7, 2012)

Oprah!!!!!


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## starrboo (Oct 22, 2012)

Nice! check this out!View attachment 2383149View attachment 2383149


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## k0ijn (Oct 23, 2012)

@Starrboo 

I'm not sure why you are spamming other peoples threads with random pictures.

If you want you can just make a thread of your own and post all the pictures you want, please don't clog up other peoples threads unless they've specifically said people can post pictures in the thread.


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## starrboo (Oct 23, 2012)

new here and I will watch what it says and what I can post. I didnt know it reposted them over and over. I can tell this is a younger web site. Hope I helped a few!


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## SimonD (Oct 23, 2012)

Just couldn't take it, dug around and started some free seeds. I get bored growing the same strains over and over. Gotta have something new to play with! The pics show the seeds exactly a week from sprouting. Well, six of them. The seventh popped several days later. I'm going to try and take a pic every week at the same time, at least during veg, to show how they develop. The seedlings are fed from day-1. Jack's Classic All-Purpose at 1/4 concentration. This goes on for ~2 weeks, as they live under floros. Then they get transplanted into 2gal pots and move under 600HPS'. The fertilizer concentration doubles with each watering until max is reached.


.

Simon


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## KidneyStoner420 (Oct 23, 2012)

Looks good Oprah! LOL
I use nearly the same technique, as far as the cfl's then the HPS. Same nute tech also.
I only run a 250, but will be ordering a dimmablr 600 in the next couple weeks actually.
How many watts do you run with the floros? Are they CFLs, T5, T8?


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## SimonD (Oct 24, 2012)

KidneyStoner420 said:


> Looks good Oprah! LOL


You should have seen the Bette Midler avatar I had on Overgrow. 



> I use nearly the same technique, as far as the cfl's then the HPS. Same nute tech also.
> I only run a 250, but will be ordering a dimmablr 600 in the next couple weeks actually.
> How many watts do you run with the floros? Are they CFLs, T5, T8?


It's a 2'/ 4-lamp T5 fixture. Seedlings are literally the only thing I use it for, but it's fantastic in this application. I also have several 6-lamp T8 fixtures. These are solely used for seating clones: Day-1 two lamps are lit, day-2 4 lamps are lit, and on day-3 all 6 lamps are lit. On the 4th day the planted clones are ready for the HIDs in the veg room. Lamp-wise, I prefer a mixed spectrum. Why? Because, it's more fun to play with. It's the only reason. 

Simon


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## k0ijn (Oct 24, 2012)

Good to see you got a litter going Simon.
Do you know which strain?

I'm still waiting for rebuilding before I can set up, I'm missing having a room close by so much.
I think I just miss the plants innerly.


Anyway, gl with the grow hope to see some cool updates


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## SimonD (Oct 24, 2012)

k0ijn said:


> Good to see you got a litter going Simon.
> Do you know which strain?
> 
> I'm still waiting for rebuilding before I can set up, I'm missing having a room close by so much.
> ...


Hey Koijn. It's afraid it's nothing terribly exciting: A While Widow (Dinafem), a Madness (World of Seeds), 2 Warlocks (can't remember whose ATM), and 3 Afghan Kushes (World of Seeds). One thing, though, is one never knows what he'll get, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. It least it's something new.

I know what you mean about missing the plants. Over the summer I had virtually nothing going, at least nothing that needed any kind of work. I felt out of place.

Simon


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## k0ijn (Oct 24, 2012)

SimonD said:


> Hey Koijn. It's afraid it's nothing terribly exciting: A While Widow (Dinafem), a Madness (World of Seeds), 2 Warlocks (can't remember whose ATM), and 3 Afghan Kushes (World of Seeds). One thing, though, is one never knows what he'll get, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. It least it's something new.
> 
> I know what you mean about missing the plants. Over the summer I had virtually nothing going, at least nothing that needed any kind of work. I felt out of place.
> 
> Simon


A little bit is better than none at all mate ^^

I'd kill to be able to have seeds germinating atm!
I'd be happy with any strain lol so at least seeing other people getting some seeds splitting is nice and distracting from my own torment.

Yeah it's a weird feeling, I hope I can get started this year but there's a lot for me to do and little time, probably won't get anything worth while up and running before 2013.


In the meantime though I know which threads to sub


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## SimonD (Oct 29, 2012)

Just about 2 weeks from sprouting. You can see how the plants have almost quadrupled in size. They'll be transplanted in a day or two, so next time you'll see them the plants will sit in 2gal (10") pots. Flowering is planned for 4-5 weeks, depending on how the plants make me feel. Madness (the plant on the front right) looks kinda frightening. I can just picture an endless stretch. This happens from time to time. The solution? I kill it and fire up a clone some weeks later. We'll see what happens. BTW, those are 16oz cups, for scale.

Simon


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## autoflowa (Oct 30, 2012)

SimonD said:


> It occurred to me that folks may not be familiar with this technique, or may not even be sure of what I'm referring to. The pics are from my tutorial on IC. Above is a Chronic clone after ~4 weeks of veg. It was LST'd at ~10 days after seating in the pot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's so funny, I use the same exact method to LST my plants with the tape and string.. love it beautiful buds by the way looks killer!


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## SimonD (Oct 31, 2012)

autoflowa said:


> That's so funny, I use the same exact method to LST my plants with the tape and string.. love it beautiful buds by the way looks killer!


I vividly remember sitting in my basement with a pot and a drill. There was no Youtube, then. I'd seen diagrams and written directions for LST, all advising to drill holes in pots and run stings/hooks/bent coat hangers/etc though the holes to hold down the branches, and I was about to do the same. I looked at that drill in my hand and said to myself, "What am I, stupid?" Then took out some butcher twine and duct tape and haven't looked back. One word of advice to anyone contemplating doing the same; buy the best duct tape you can find.

Simon


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## SimonD (Nov 10, 2012)

Apologies for not updating the thread in a timely manner. The pics were shot this past Tuesday, exactly 3 weeks after sprouting: 2gal pots, Pro-Mix fed with Jack's Classic.


I thought I'd show the LST process again, since I was tying the plants down anyway. As you can see, I like to LST at 7-8 nodes from seed (and 5-10 modes, depending, from clone). Why, when new growers are told to maximize the number of "bud sites?" Because, successful cultivation isn't about vegging for the biggest number of "bud sites" or whatever other growbook bullshit one clamps onto; it's about harvesting the most bud!







First tie supports the plant (for the entirety of its life).







Second tie is as high as possible. 

I'll do my best to upload the pics on time at the 4-week mark.



Simon


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## SimonD (Nov 13, 2012)

4 weeks from seed. I'm going to flower the batch in a day or two, so the next set of pics will come in 9-10 weeks.

Simon


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## bluntmassa1 (Nov 13, 2012)

nice so thats what you do is lst I need to try that out. whats your average yield per plant? how many plants do you fit under your light like that? and are you breaking 1gpw? damn sure looks like it anyways it almost looks like your doing better then most scrog and sog growers. 
you got me trying out that jacks classic for sure I'm using GH nutes right now but them jc nutes look like they'll do just as good.


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## bluntmassa1 (Nov 13, 2012)

SimonD said:


> 600HPS' and 1000HPS', Jack's Classic All-Purpose in veg and Blossom Booster in bloom. B'cuzz Pro-Mix right out of the bag.
> 
> http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jack-s-Classic/The-Dynamic-Duo.html
> 
> ...


where do you get pro-mix B'cuzz? I can only find pro-mix bx and the cheaper kind locally. what do they only sell it at hydro stores or what?


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## SimonD (Nov 13, 2012)

bluntmassa1 said:


> nice so thats what you do is lst I need to try that out. whats your average yield per plant? how many plants do you fit under your light like that? and are you breaking 1gpw? damn sure looks like it anyways it almost looks like your doing better then most scrog and sog growers.
> you got me trying out that jacks classic for sure I'm using GH nutes right now but them jc nutes look like they'll do just as good.


I run one plant per (about a) square foot. It usually works out to ~1.25ft2 per plant. Each plant goes up with 5-8 main stems, all pruned for no popcorn. So, in a sense, it's kinda like a SOG without the multitude of plants and with additional reach in the literal sense of the word. I find that being able to physically move and re-orient the plants, as needed, pays significant dividends at harvest. Yield, I pull several ounces per square foot under 1Ks, dry/cured. 



bluntmassa1 said:


> where do you get pro-mix B'cuzz? I can only find pro-mix bx and the cheaper kind locally. what do they only sell it at hydro stores or what?


I buy the B'cuzz Pro-Mix in a hydro store, but you can use any other Pro-Mix just the same. Just add some Perlite. A good measure is a bag of MG Perlite (how ever much that is), from the gardening section at the DIY store, per 2ft2 of Pro-Mix. 

Simon


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## RandyHighwood (Dec 3, 2012)

Hey Simon,

Ive just been converted to Jacks, as i fell in the marketing hysteria of fancy nutes then all organics and after all my reading and research it seems like jacks is the real deal. Hell they've been around for 50+ years. A few questions for you...What is your water source? I run RO (30ppms) I am wondering if you have ever or think i should add cal mag supplements to the soil or feed schedule. After speaking with someone at JR Peters they said that i might want to add cal mag but couldn't add it to any mixture with Jacks (alternate feeds or apply foliage). Do you ph? sorry for all the questions, I feel like i'm re-learning growing. Also, do you flush? i think i recall you saying that you feed 1/4 strength at the end. any info would be greatly appreciated. I wish i would have known this since day one..Thanks for the thread!


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## SimonD (Dec 5, 2012)

RandyHighwood said:


> Hey Simon,
> 
> Ive just been converted to Jacks, as i fell in the marketing hysteria of fancy nutes then all organics and after all my reading and research it seems like jacks is the real deal. Hell they've been around for 50+ years. A few questions for you...What is your water source? I run RO (30ppms) I am wondering if you have ever or think i should add cal mag supplements to the soil or feed schedule. After speaking with someone at JR Peters they said that i might want to add cal mag but couldn't add it to any mixture with Jacks (alternate feeds or apply foliage). Do you ph? sorry for all the questions, I feel like i'm re-learning growing. Also, do you flush? i think i recall you saying that you feed 1/4 strength at the end. any info would be greatly appreciated. I wish i would have known this since day one..Thanks for the thread!


Hi Randy. I don't add anything to Jack's. No Cal/Mag. Nothing at all. Just water from the tap mixed with the fertilizer. I was a chem major in college for about 15 minutes and leaned just enough to understand that I don't know shit about the subject, so I leave the chemistry to those who completed their post-docs.

I did lean out the fertilizer concentration to 1/4 for years, but last season changed the methodology a bit to 1/2 strength. Can't say that it made a night and day difference, but I did pull personal best last season, so I'm sticking with it. No flush. Ever.

I should note again that I feed with every watering. The pots are relatively small and the plants aren't, so we're talking water every 1-2 days. I feel rather strongly that it allows for a much greater degree of control, relative to larger pots and less frequent watering, coupled with the buffering of the medium.

If I can give you a piece of advice, try to make everything as simple as possible. The less inputs you use, the easier it is to streamline the grow.


Simon


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## rocpilefsj (Dec 5, 2012)

SimonD said:


> If I can give you a piece of advice, try to make everything as simple as possible. The less inputs you use, the easier it is to streamline the grow.
> 
> 
> Simon


Very true, it is so easy to over-complicate


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## guy incognito (Jan 28, 2013)

Nice buds. How did the NLxBB turn out? I have several now and it's growing insane. One of the healthiest and most vigorous strains i've ever seen. First one won't be coming down for another 4-5 weeks though.


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## SimonD (Oct 24, 2013)

SimonD said:


> 4 weeks from seed. I'm going to flower the batch in a day or two, so the next set of pics will come in 9-10 weeks.
> 
> Simon


I took a few pics of a test run I was harvesting last night, and found several pics that I _think_ represent some to the plants above. My apologies for being so lame about this.






















Simon


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## SimonD (Oct 24, 2013)

I got a free Bubba x Cheese seed last year and finally grew it out this summer. Took a few clones and did a test run to gauge the strain's viability. Here are the results. 7 clones that covered ~9ft2 of the garden:


















Edit: not sure why the other pics are so small. I apologize again for not having the time to dive into this. 

Simon


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## Keif. (Oct 24, 2013)

Just read through all of this, great pics, documentation and technique. Looking forward to seeing more updates. +rep


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