# Obama is the anti-Christ!!!



## DontDoDrugs (Feb 21, 2009)

Well i was kinda high the other day.. and i was watching some politics stuff.. and obama was signing a paper in front of like a million people.. why do people gather around for this guy like hes a god.Its said that the anti christ will come to us as a charming, charismatic, handsome man and people will love him. i don't think obama is handsome but idk.. well it still seems like people love him. He meets most of the standards i guess..

the end of his 1st term as president ends in 2012.. which has ben prophesysed to be the end of the world. will obama carry us to the end.. or will the end start at the second term of his presidency when he is inevitably re elected. Everything will seem perfect and then at some point in 2012.. everything will go to hell.


Obama could be the anti-christ.. the only way to know is to search his body for the mark of the beast.. but damn.. only his wife could do that to the president of the motha fucken US... hes pretty much untouchable.. so i guess we wont know until its all over.


What do you people think? was i a bit too high.. or does this make sense..


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## DownOnWax (Feb 21, 2009)

Have you ever heard of the book: Left Behind?

It is about the rise of the Anti- Christ and armageddon basically. It is a 12 part book series that spans about 5,000 pages. Well I read every last one of them and when Obama started to gain popularity I started thinking the same thing. 

It is uncanny the similarities that the Anti Christ in the book compares to Barrack Obama. 

Except the Prohecy says that true believers in Christ will be "taken" before the Anti Christ comes along. Who knows but there is actually a lot of people out there who believe the same thing you do!


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## DontDoDrugs (Feb 21, 2009)

wow dude.. yah cus i told a few of my friends and they are all expecting obama to be the anti christ haha.. but yah i heard that the people would be taken before he came but i think its before he REVEALS himself.. as his true identity.


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## DontDoDrugs (Feb 21, 2009)

can people plz post a message and not just vote on the pole.. call me an idiot i don't care.. i just want to hear some oppinions on this.


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

ppl who think obama is the anti christ are retarded, wait scratch that... if you think there _even_ is an antichrist, you are retarded


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> ppl who think obama is the anti christ are retarded, wait scratch that... if you think there _even_ is an antichrist, you are retarded


agree with zig zag zane.

worlds going to shite in 2012! world went to shite ages ago because of religious fuckwits.


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

agsteve, u kno wuts up...religion is the worst thing that ever happened to this world, and yes the world has been going to shit for a long time, even though i try to focus on the positive shit in life.


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## DownOnWax (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> ppl who think obama is the anti christ are retarded, wait scratch that... if you think there _even_ is an antichrist, you are retarded


So you are basically saying that MILLIONS of people throughout the world are retarded?

Wow so you are saying The Pope, Barrack Obama, Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King Jr., and Isaac Newton to name a few are all Retarded. 

So what does that make you?


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## mexiblunt (Feb 21, 2009)

Exactly. In order to believe in the anti-christ you need to first believe in christ. And if that the case you shouldn't worry cause you will be taken care of.


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

DownOnWax said:


> So you are basically saying that MILLIONS of people throughout the world are retarded?
> 
> Wow so you are saying The Pope, Barrack Obama, Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King Jr., and Isaac Newton to name a few are all Retarded.
> 
> So what does that make you?


Im gonna have a field day on this...lmfao wow...first off, there are a shitload of religious people .... and that means they usually believe in a form of antichrist, if you want to take it literally, then YES i am calling them retarded, but it wasnt meant literally, on top of that religion is so deeply engraved in our society, that many dont even question it, and just go along, especially the President, becuz an athiest would NEVER be elected, another point i wanna just throw in...umm Mother teresa had doubts about her faith...so ...yeahhh, Martin Luther King was a reverand, so of fucking course he spoke about antichrist ...and anything that had to do with religion...and isacc newton...whyd you even throw in in this? hes one of our greatest minds to ever have lived, and was scared to propose his new and RIGHT hypothesis about our earth and the sun and the universe and all that shit, because he coulda been burned alive at the stake by religious ppl...so please dont fuckin try to throw some great names out there that were religious to try to make me seem dumb for calling ppl who believe in an antichrist retarded...because it is retarded to believe that. But Ill put in other words for you, ppl who believe in an antichrist dont rely on common sense and/or evidence at all...thats what i should have said lol antichrist...thats some fairy tale shit


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## DownOnWax (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> Im gonna have a field day on this...lmfao wow...first off, there are a shitload of religious people .... and that means they usually believe in a form of antichrist, if you want to take it literally, then YES i am calling them retarded, but it wasnt meant literally, on top of that religion is so deeply engraved in our society, that many dont even question it, and just go along, especially the President, becuz an athiest would NEVER be elected, another point i wanna just throw in...umm Mother teresa had doubts about her faith...so ...yeahhh, Martin Luther King was a reverand, so of fucking course he spoke about antichrist ...and anything that had to do with religion...and isacc newton...whyd you even throw in in this? hes one of our greatest minds to ever have lived, and was scared to propose his new and RIGHT hypothesis about our earth and the sun and the universe and all that shit, because he coulda been burned alive at the stake by religious ppl...so please dont fuckin try to throw some great names out there that were religious to try to make me seem dumb for calling ppl who believe in an antichrist retarded...because it is retarded to believe that. But Ill put in other words for you, ppl who believe in an antichrist dont rely on common sense and/or evidence at all...thats what i should have said lol antichrist...thats some fairy tale shit


 
I threw out some famous names because what all of them have in common is Faith in Christianity. 

For you to sit here, down people and call them retarded because they believe in something that you don't is as narrow fucking minded as you can possibly get. 

Listen I am not here to spread the the word or convert people to Christianity but I am sure as hell not going to Bash something that I don't personally understand. 

You made the comment that there never will be an atheist President. Well, a lot of people with your same outlook said that there will never be a Black President either and lookie here boys and girls, there is now.

I just think it's pretty Ballsy for you to come in here and call Christians and people who are religeous all Retarded?

Hey, while your at it why not insult people of a different race or sexual orientation than you!


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

DownOnWax said:


> So you are basically saying that MILLIONS of people throughout the world are retarded?
> 
> Wow so you are saying The Pope, Barrack Obama, Mother Theresa, Martin Luther King Jr., and Isaac Newton to name a few are all Retarded.
> 
> So what does that make you?


Millions of ppl in the world are retarded. Unfortunately due to genetics. Many more are retarded due to beliefs in dogma.

not sure what point your trying to make mentioning those names. the pope and mother theresa, who were/are/will be obviously retarded since they believe the bible is the word of god.

not sure what martin luther king jr has to do with this. does he believe in god? or is this the dead dude who advocated white ppl giving fair dues to black ppl.

isaac newton... did he believe in god?



mexiblunt said:


> Exactly. In order to believe in the anti-christ you need to first believe in christ. And if that the case you shouldn't worry cause you will be taken care of.


i didn't know jesus' surname was christ. i don't think he did either.

what if i were to say i were born of a virgin? would you believe that?


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

DownOnWax said:


> I threw out some famous names because what all of them have in common is Faith in Christianity.
> 
> For you to sit here, down people and call them retarded because they believe in something that you don't is as narrow fucking minded as you can possibly get.
> 
> ...


so christianity doesn't discriminate against ppl of the gay variety?

i will be so bold as to call all ppl that believe in so called religious texts retarded.


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

aright downonwax, i seriously wasnt trynna insult anyone, and like i said, i dont literally thinik ppl who are religious are retarded, many religious ppl are very smart..except for when it comes to their faith, thats when they become retarded...thats when they usually start to disregard all common sense,and they simply allow themselves to be blind and dont question shit....they just go along with all the bullshit in the bible that was written by HUMAN PEOPLE THAT TRIED TO INSTILL FEAR INTO PPL AND CONRTOL THEM, like i could talk all day about this shit, but arguing with religious ppl ...especially ones that get butt-hurt like you, is completely fucking useless...


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## DownOnWax (Feb 21, 2009)

I will say that having a Religeous debate on a Marijuana Growers forum is completely retarded. 

Im out


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## Microdizzey (Feb 21, 2009)

Look at the world around you, you damn fools. Maybe instead of boasting your useless and pessimistic opinions, you should research and post something valuable.


If God doesn't exist, we're all fucked forever. How does that sound? Does that make you feel better?


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> aright downonwax, i seriously wasnt trynna insult anyone, and like i said, i dont literally thinik ppl who are religious are retarded, many religious ppl are very smart..except for when it comes to their faith, thats when they become retarded...thats when they usually start to disregard all common sense,and they simply allow themselves to be blind and dont question shit....they just go along with all the bullshit in the bible that was written by HUMAN PEOPLE THAT TRIED TO INSTILL FEAR INTO PPL AND CONRTOL THEM, like i could talk all day about this shit, but arguing with religious ppl ...especially ones that get butt-hurt like you, is completely fucking useless...


well put again. i'd +rep you again but i can't. i would say tho zig zag zane don't be afraid of calling these ppl retarted. they need a reality check. they have no quarms about saying your going to hell for your beliefs. i would admit tho that it is probably derogatory to real retarted ppl who were born with the disability and to those who have become retarded thru injury or illness.


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## mexiblunt (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> Millions of ppl in the world are retarded. Unfortunately due to genetics. Many more are retarded due to beliefs in dogma.
> 
> not sure what point your trying to make mentioning those names. the pope and mother theresa, who were/are/will be obviously retarded since they believe the bible is the word of god.
> 
> ...


Yeah by bad! Guess it shows what I know of the subject. I think you know what I meant tho. Like ppl telling me I'm going to hell. How can I go somewhere I don't even believe exists?


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

downonwax, man im sorry but like all your points are just irrelevant, any by the way it started with me sayin people who believe in the antichrist are retarded ....not all religious ppl...even though they do kinda go hand in hand lol and i cant even tell you how un-narrowminded i am...like wow. its just fine and dandy to be religious...but i will say this...people who believe the bible fundamentaly(100% truth) virgin birth, noahs ark all that nonsense....then yes those people are indeed FUCKING RETARDED. thats all i gotta say bout this topic


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> well put again. i'd +rep you again but i can't. i would say tho zig zag zane don't be afraid of calling these ppl retarted. they need a reality check. they have no quarms about saying your going to hell for your beliefs. i would admit tho that it is probably derogatory to real retarted ppl who were born with the disability and to those who have become retarded thru injury or illness.


 i kno man....i just try to be nice and sweet and shit on the forums...cuz i hate conflicts...especially over the internet haha but thats why you was here to say wut i wanted to say lol and plus you kno how religious ppl can get lol....


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Microdizzey said:


> Look at the world around you, you damn fools. Maybe instead of boasting your useless and pessimistic opinions, you should research and post something valuable.
> 
> 
> If God doesn't exist, we're all fucked forever. How does that sound? Does that make you feel better?


research what? useless and pessimistic opinions... now were are getting down to the nitty gritty. you just can't live with the prospect that when you die that's it.


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> well put again. i'd +rep you again but i can't. i would say tho zig zag zane don't be afraid of calling these ppl retarted. they need a reality check. they have no quarms about saying your going to hell for your beliefs. i would admit tho that it is probably derogatory to real retarted ppl who were born with the disability and to those who have become retarded thru injury or illness.


i kno man....i just try to be nice and respectful and shit on the forums...cuz i hate conflicts...especially over the internet cuz its completely dumb haha but thats why you was here to say wut i wanted to say lol and plus you kno how religious ppl can get ....lol


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## mexiblunt (Feb 21, 2009)

Microdizzey said:


> Look at the world around you, you damn fools. Maybe instead of boasting your useless and pessimistic opinions, you should research and post something valuable.
> 
> 
> If God doesn't exist, we're all fucked forever. How does that sound? Does that make you feel better?


 who's god? everyones? or just the cristians god?


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

people who dog religion are worse then the morons who led the crusades

close minded, and loud mouthed. cant stand atheists just as much as i cant stand the converter.


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

Microdizzey said:


> Look at the world around you, you damn fools. Maybe instead of boasting your useless and pessimistic opinions, you should research and post something valuable.
> 
> 
> If God doesn't exist, we're all fucked forever. How does that sound? Does that make you feel better?


 WOWWWWWW....this post was ..WOW, and how again are "we all fucked forever"? just cuz theres no big invisible man and heaven in the clouds? this makes us fucked? i seem to be going thru life just fine w/out this superstition and fairytales


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> people who dog religion are worse then the morons who led the crusades
> 
> close minded, and loud mouthed. cant stand atheists just as much as i cant stand the converter.


 Im a pro athiest! haha


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> people who dog religion are worse then the morons who led the crusades
> 
> close minded, and loud mouthed. cant stand atheists just as much as i cant stand the converter.


whats close minded that believing that the universe was created, were are all born of stardust and that when your dead thats it. i would say that was open minded. just because i don't believe some old fart with a white beard made man out of dirt and woman out of a mans rib i'm an atheist.


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

mexiblunt said:


> who's god? everyones? or just the cristians god?


touche. what is god? does any one religion have a divine right to know what god is? no. religion as we know it is just a scare tactic.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> whats close minded that believing that the universe was created, were are all born of stardust and that when your dead thats it. i would say that was open minded. just because i don't believe some old fart with a white beard made man out of dirt and woman out of a mans rib i'm an atheist.


whats close minded?

consider what you just said and then tell me whats not close minded.

agnostic is one thing, atheist entirely different.

atheism is the epitome of a close minded beliefe

the reason being, you can't prove anything, you have science based in theory.

religion has beliefes based in faith.

what makes you think your theories are superior to faith?

ahh! thats right because atheists just know. they know because God can't be real. its just that, right?

like i said, agnostic is one thing, atheism is for fucking retards on a high horse.


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## mexiblunt (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> touche. what is god? does any one religion have a divine right to know what god is? no. religion as we know it is just a scare tactic.


Agreed!


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

During the midevil times, they literally charged ppl to be forgiven their sins....like you pay money...and then a guy says your forgiven, that should say enuff about religion right there.


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> whats close minded?
> 
> consider what you just said and then tell me whats not close minded.
> 
> ...


 you said "we cant prove anything,we have science based theories" ummm this seems like a big oxymoron, and yes im an athiest, i dont believe in a god or religion, BUT thats the misunderstanding, i dont believe in any god or religion that we have fabricated on this earth, i never said there are things beyond us all..i believe in parallel universes...i believe in aliens or that other life forms live on other distant planets...but the idea of a god? nawwww...but anyways, like i said a while back. its simply pointless sometimes and very difficult to argue with religious ppl because they are so dead-set on the idea that the athiests are the narrow minded assholes....when really its just how i think and believe based on the world around me and facts...heres a fact...religion has caused every single war...EVER, meanwhile it helps individuals personally and whatnot, but causes way more violence,wars,destruction,and seperation of peoples....so thats why i am willing to argue my point even though the counter argument from the religious people is that we simply are assholes that just like to bash religion...well we have reasons to bash it.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

i have argued religion until i was blue in the face, with atheists mostly, because they are almost always pompous and belittle "god" in childish manners. 

now maybe argue is the wrong word for me to use, because i dont argue, i discuss. 

i am catholic and became a devoted one about 4 years ago, i had an "enlightenment" i guess, its the only way to describe the feeling to those who do not possess faith. you will never know the feeling unless you experience it. with that said, make fun of that all you want, but its my truth.

my best friend from childhood, who was my roomate for 5 years, smoked weed with me everyday and was the most genuinely nice person you could ever meet. no alterior motives, no jealousy. no callousness, no irrational behaviors, a model human being, and everyone i introduced to him thought the same thing - what an amzing person. he is now a catholic monk. he has been gone for 2 years and i miss him every fucking day. 

this person, and people like him, are true examples of the inspiration of jesus.

you've probably never met a person like this, and i bet few have. truly a very small number of people who call themselves christians or catholics are Christlike and tho i do not presume to speak for my god, i bet all of these people have some answering to do when they are face to face with the one they are suppossed to worship and imitate.

people like to look at the things people do in the name of religion and blame the religion.

sorry, but thats a cop out to lay the blame somewhere.

people are the ones who kill people in the name of religion. not the religion itself.

people are the ones who justify themselves in the name of religion. religion does not justify them.

truly Jesus was the epitome of the perfect human being, and those like him are the truly faithful.


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> you said "we cant prove anything,we have science based theories" ummm this seems like a big oxymoron, and yes im an athiest, i dont believe in a god or religion, BUT thats the misunderstanding, i dont believe in any god or religion that we have fabricated on this earth, i never said there are things beyond us all..i believe in parallel universes...i believe in aliens or that other life forms live on other distant planets...but the idea of a god? nawwww...but anyways, like i said a while back. its simply pointless sometimes and very difficult to argue with religious ppl because they are so dead-set on the idea that the athiests are the narrow minded assholes....when really its just how i think and believe based on the world around me and facts...heres a fact...religion has caused every single war...EVER, meanwhile it helps individuals personally and whatnot, but causes way more violence,wars,destruction,and seperation of peoples....so thats why i am willing to argue my point even though the counter argument from the religious people is that we simply are assholes that just like to bash religion...well we have reasons to bash it.


i was going to say something witty and profound to reinforce zig zag zane but i can't be arsed. you religious freaks just wouldn't get it and its 3am and i'm going to bed.

big up to the zig zag zane and anyone else that thinks logically and intelligently.

to all the apes that are scared of anything they don't or can't understand, never mind you won't even know real enlightenment because you will have wasted your lives thinking the beardy bloke is watching over you.

ttm.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> i was going to say something witty and profound to reinforce zig zag zane but i can't be arsed. you religious freaks just wouldn't get it and its 3am and i'm going to bed.
> 
> big up to the zig zag zane and anyone else that thinks logically and intelligently.
> 
> ...


 
this is the kind of person who im talking about here.

i dont even have to read his whole paragraph to know im seeing an un-informed loud mouthed atheist do his thing, exactly as described earlier.


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> i have argued religion until i was blue in the face, with atheists mostly, because they are almost always pompous and belittle "god" in childish manners.
> 
> now maybe argue is the wrong word for me to use, because i dont argue, i discuss.
> 
> ...


ok just one more quick one.

i only got as far as reading your first line... pmsl.

belittle 'god'. ffs. show me proof your 'god' exists.


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

tronica said:


> i have argued religion until i was blue in the face, with atheists mostly, because they are almost always pompous and belittle "god" in childish manners.
> 
> Now maybe argue is the wrong word for me to use, because i dont argue, i discuss.
> 
> ...


 *done .*


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## mexiblunt (Feb 21, 2009)

I thought you were discussing religion? And doesn't a disscusion involve talking and listening?


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

mexiblunt said:


> I thought you were discussing religion? And doesn't a disscusion involve talking and listening?


 
this is the internet, be real here


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> this is the kind of person who im talking about here.
> 
> i dont even have to read his whole paragraph to know im seeing an un-informed loud mouthed atheist do his thing, exactly as described earlier.


kind of person... un-informed... may your 'god' strike me down then. as i said before i'm not an athiest. don't stick me in your little boxes just because i don't believe what you do. twat.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> kind of person... un-informed... may your 'god' strike me down then. as i said before i'm not an athiest. don't stick me in your little boxes just because i don't believe what you do. twat.


 
rest my case.


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## mexiblunt (Feb 21, 2009)

I guess it doesn't show when a post is edited anymore?


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> i was going to say something witty and profound to reinforce zig zag zane but i can't be arsed. you religious freaks just wouldn't get it and its 3am and i'm going to bed.
> 
> big up to the zig zag zane and anyone else that thinks logically and intelligently.
> 
> ...


 yeah AGSteve thanks and +rep to you, im gonna have to just unsubscribe and call it a night too bro, no matter what point i make...even me being the more nice one in this discussion, it simply wont get through.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> yeah AGSteve thanks and +rep to you, im gonna have to just unsubscribe and call it a night too bro, no matter what point i make...even me being the more nice one in this discussion, it simply wont get through.


 
what are you trying to "get thro"?

just thought id ask?

are you trying to convert us to atheism? or are you discussing the facts?

p.s.

for your own benefit you shouldn't be getting cozy with the ignorant, even if he shares some of your views. you just get lumped in with the ignorant as well.


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

mexiblunt said:


> I thought you were discussing religion? And doesn't a disscusion involve talking and listening?


 i have listened, and i have said MORE than enuff to show where i stand, but it goes through one ear and out the other.


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## mexiblunt (Feb 21, 2009)

I was just here for entertainment purposes, sry to anyone/everyone I forgive myself.


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## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

Everything is impossible.
You have to work the rest out for yourselves.
God and the Devil exist in each and every thing that exists or should that be good and evil,things get lost in translation.
Basic physics would imply that there must be a positive force and a negative force at either end of our universe or it would collapse.
As to whether these forces have an exact and interfering hand in our existence or demise remains to be seen.

We all make choices,we are all good and bad,everything is positive and negative and if it wasn't it would simply fall to bits.
I would advise you not to try removing either the positive or negative terminals from your plug sockets just as i would advise you not to cut your brain in half.
Both are needed in this universe and people make choices


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> what are you trying to "get thro"?
> 
> just thought id ask?
> 
> are you trying to convert us to atheism? or are you discussing the facts?


 im not trynna convert becuz i kno that a convo on the internet one night wont do that, but all the_ very significant_ points i have made, have either been completely ignored, or just swayed into something else... so sorry fuck it. like when you were sayin all that stuff about jesus and him being the only true divine sum shit....like im sorry but we have no documentation other than the bible, to prove that jesus was in fact actually a real person that ever lived! anyways like i said...it was good for me to just vent and explain my views in hopes that it would make ppl question and doubt lol but with many religious ppl, points that i have made wont even make a dent...


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

natmoon said:


> Everything is impossible.
> You have to work the rest out for yourselves.
> God and the Devil exist in each and every thing that exists or should that be good and evil,things get lost in translation.
> Basic physics would imply that there must be a positive force and a negative force at either end of our universe or it would collapse.
> ...


 
A reason to be agnostic, and not atheist.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> im not trynna convert becuz i kno that a convo on the internet one night wont do that, but all the_ very significant_ points i have made, have either been completely ignored, or just swayed into something else... so sorry fuck it. like when you were sayin all that stuff about jesus and him being the only true divine sum shit....like im sorry but we have no documentation other than the bible, to prove that jesus was in fact actually a real person that ever lived! anyways like i said...it was good for me to just vent and explain my views in hopes that it would make ppl question and doubt lol but with many religious ppl, points that i have made wont even make a dent...


wow wow wow wow wow

we have no documentation of jesus?

see you're wrong here, and the bible is definately not what im referring to.

get back to me after you do a little research on the man himself.


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## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> A reason to be agnostic, and not atheist.


Did you actually think about what i said or read without thought and then put me in a box?


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

do you know what agnostic means?


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

> for your own benefit you shouldn't be getting cozy with the ignorant, even if he shares some of your views. you just get lumped in with the ignorant as well.


dude, i dont see him as ignorant, he may have been more unsympathetic to your views, but to us and many others, we cant even see how ppl can believe in these gods and religions that we made up on this earth, and to you and many other religious people, you cant understand how we dont believe...it goes both ways and it wont change


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

uhhh naw, i stand by my point that we have no actual proof that the jesus even ever lived...except in stories and books...and of course the bible, trace the dna back to jesus then talk to me


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## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> do you know what agnostic means?


I am not of the agnostic faith and yes i am fairly knowledgeable.
I am not to be put in a box by you or anyone else.
Did you have any understanding at all of what i had previously said and if so what are you views on it?



> Everything is impossible.
> You have to work the rest out for yourselves.
> God and the Devil exist in each and every thing that exists or should that be good and evil,things get lost in translation.
> Basic physics would imply that there must be a positive force and a negative force at either end of our universe or it would collapse.
> ...


----------



## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

no no no. see you're assuming here, i never said i didn't know how you didn't believe

its pretty simple really. you dont have faith. thats why you don't believe.

you need "proof" of god before you'll belive it. even if there is no proof there is no god, you still know that. by claiming to be atheist this is your cree.

this is why atheism is so dumb to me personally. it is the most close minded ego driven beliefe. 

you can't prove anything, but you still clutch to nothing like its the truth.

thats why i personally cant stand atheist but i totally get where an agnostic is coming from.


and for the guy who doesn't know the difference.

an atheist has no beliefe. he does not believe there is not a god, he believes in nothing.

an agnostic is open minded. an agnostic does not presume there is no god, but also doesn't believe in a god or follow any religion. - these people i can understand, and they make sense.

natmoon, agnosticism is not a religion bro


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

If you look at the movie zeitgeist, for one, you'll see where the origin of the Christ myth came from...it's been recycled over and over from older religions,basically he is a symbol of death and rebirth,derived from Sun worship.The end of the world has been unsuccessfully prophesied for millennia, and it has never come.Though the end of man may come, the world will last a long time after the last of us is gone.But everyone wants to believe they're special,and that the end of the world will come in their lifetime, and they have been "chosen" to witness this.At least the religious types do.And they're wrong, and they've been wrong over and over again. 
The bible is a work of fiction,written by a group of men who wanted to establish a code of conduct for Christians.Just because you don't like a guy doesn't make him the "anti Christ",and in fact,he can't be the anti Christ because there was no Christ.There has been no scientific or historical evidence of this person existing. If you wish to believe in the Christian faith, by all means, go ahead.But realize that your religion and belief system does not apply to everyone,and the world and the existence of it is not governed by any man made religion or superstition.Certainly at one time or another,Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini,Napoleon Bonaparte,Saddam Hussein,and Ronald Reagan, to name a few, have all been accused of being the anti Christ.Surely any one of those would have been infinitely more qualified to fill the role than Barack Obama.


DontDoDrugs said:


> Well i was kinda high the other day.. and i was watching some politics stuff.. and obama was signing a paper in front of like a million people.. why do people gather around for this guy like hes a god.Its said that the anti christ will come to us as a charming, charismatic, handsome man and people will love him. i don't think obama is handsome but idk.. well it still seems like people love him. He meets most of the standards i guess..
> 
> the end of his 1st term as president ends in 2012.. which has ben prophesysed to be the end of the world. will obama carry us to the end.. or will the end start at the second term of his presidency when he is inevitably re elected. Everything will seem perfect and then at some point in 2012.. everything will go to hell.
> 
> ...


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

tronica, natmoon wasnt even really referring to religion at all, anyways i was sposed to retire from this thread a while back....my ending statement is just that, i'd rather base what i believe and know on science and fact and not this thing called "faith"...it doesnt make sense...i might as well believe the the boogey-man is our god and created the earth and say "i have faith thats whats true"...you will read that and say im just narrow minded or something, but to me its just that illogical and ridiculous....you speak of enlightenment...well non-religious people feel VERY enlightened...just not about the same belief


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

stoney mcfried said:


> if you look at the movie zeitgeist, for one, you'll see where the origin of the christ myth came from...it's been recycled over and over from older religions,basically he is a symbol of death and rebirth,derived from sun worship.the end of the world has been unsuccessfully prophesied for millennia, and it has never come.though the end of man may come, the world will last a long time after the last of us is gone.but everyone wants to believe they're special,and that the end of the world will come in their lifetime, and they have been "chosen" to witness this.at least the religious types do.and they're wrong, and they've been wrong over and over again.
> The bible is a work of fiction,written by a group of men who wanted to establish a code of conduct for christians.just because you don't like a guy doesn't make him the "anti christ",and in fact,he can't be the anti christ because there was no christ.there has been no scientific or historical evidence of this person existing. If you wish to believe in the christian faith, by all means, go ahead.but realize that your religion and belief system does not apply to everyone,and the world and the existence of it is not governed by any man made religion or superstition.certainly at one time or another,adolf hitler, benito mussolini,napoleon bonaparte,saddam hussein,and ronald reagan, to name a few, have all been accused of being the anti christ.surely any one of those would have been infinitely more qualified to fill the role than barack obama.


 thank you.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

well if you believe in the big bang, and the scientifical theories that come with that, then where did the 2 atoms come from?

if nothing was created from something, what created the nothing?

the big bang theory can be explained with relgiion too, and so can all of evolution. 

but let me ask you since you brought it up, where does your enlightenment come from?

what do you live for knowing that you, and everything about you, will cease to exist when you die? why do you practice this exercise in futility called life?


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> If you look at the movie zeitgeist.


 
oh god..

pls dont start with that.

lol


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> no no no. see you're assuming here, i never said i didn't know how you didn't believe
> 
> its pretty simple really. you dont have faith. thats why you don't believe.
> 
> ...


 yes, i need proof before i believe in some shit....why is that soooo crazy??lmao damn haha and how is being an athiest about your ego? what am i getting to boost my ego off becuz im athiest???im actually bashed becuz there are more religious ppl than athiest, and your wrong about us not believing in ANYTHING, like i said i believe their are things beyond us all, but i dont believe it comes in the form of an omniscent being who created and started everything...its actually really humble to believe in nothing, we dont strive to find the meaning of life or to be good to get into heaven, we just believe what we know...you got it all backwards, you say we have no proof...well YOU HAVE NO PROOF!lol


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> yes, i need proof before i believe in some shit....why is that soooo crazy??lmao damn haha and how is being an athiest about your ego? what am i getting to boost my ego off becuz im athiest???im actually bashed becuz there are more religious ppl than athiest, and your wrong about us not believing in ANYTHING, like i said i believe their are things beyond us all, but i dont believe it comes in the form of an omniscent being who created and started everything...its actually really humble to believe in nothing, we dont strive to find the meaning of life or to be good to get into heaven, we just believe what we know...you got it all backwards, you say we have no proof...well YOU HAVE NO PROOF!lol


pointless.

im debating this with someone who doesnt even know the basics of his own arguments or the "beliefe" ( lack thereof, go look up atheism) in his own debate.

and go back one page and answer my other question that you skipped.

no offense but i think you're not very well versed in this topic but you're continuing anyways.


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## GoldenGanja13 (Feb 21, 2009)

get over it people


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## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

Exactly.
My whole point is that which zigzag said.
You didn't even read what i said and if you did you only saw what you wanted to see.
As many people here know i am a firm believer in Jesus and in God and the Devil.

I may not go to church and sing stupid songs or knock on peoples doors and try to force them to believe but that doesn't mean i don't have any religion.
Do you really think that my beliefs need the popes and state approval for them to be mine?

I also believe that it is a fact that the bible states that if any man changes even one word of the bible then the bible should be considered useless.
As it is 66 books have been removed,the only text that was proven to have been written by a Jesus of Nazareth in Aramaic has been declared blasphemous and all of the ancient recipes for healing and enlightenment have been removed.

The bible has been altered by so many king's priests and such like over time how do you know what your reading isn't total crap?
I believe in my heart and in physics and in logic,logic tells me that a great positive force must exist as must a negative one.
Wether or not they have a direct hand in manipulating me or you does not make me agnostic.

You speak about that which you obviously know very little and singing songs in church does not make you Christian.
P.S. God told me he was sick of listening to the same old crap for the past few hundred years


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

GoldenGanja13 said:


> get over it people


 
get over us.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

natmoon said:


> Exactly.
> My whole point is that which zigzag said.
> You didn't even read what i said and if you did you only saw what you wanted to see.
> As many people here know i a firm believer in Jesus and in God and the Devil.
> ...


 
i dont go to church.

and you don't sound very christian to me.

dont mock the same god you claim you believe in the same page.

ffs.


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> well if you believe in the big bang, and the scientifical theories that come with that, then where did the 2 atoms come from?
> 
> if nothing was created from something, what created the nothing?
> 
> ...


 why do i practice living? uhhh because we are fucking here...were on this earth, and living is great! i dont need an expectation of heavens gate once i die or 80 virgins and shit, i simply try to enjoy life since im here and not make perfect sense of it with a book to follow and a bunch of rules which dictates whats good and bad, and what i been trynna say is that the 2 atoms thing to create the big bang...my athiesm doesnt mean i think it came from fucking no where but like i said, there are things beyond us and this earth, but i dont think it was an omniscent giant human being in the sky , and sice your religious, shouldnt you be disregarding science and the big bang?


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

i can explain the big bang and evolution with religion.

why disregard it?

quit putting the bible in my hand too pls because i have not brought it up once.


For Natmoon 
Agnosticim is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims &#8212; particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of deities, ghosts, or even ultimate reality &#8212; is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently impossible to prove or disprove. It is often put forth as a middle ground between theism and atheism.[1]


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

but natmoon.

you can continue with your own made up "beliefes" all you want. 

lots of nuts out there like you have done so and created entire religions out of it in the past 500 years so maybe you're onto somehting.


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## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> i dont go to church.
> 
> and you don't sound very christian to me.
> 
> ...


The only person that mocks god is you lot.
Do you really think that an omnipotent being that created everything would care that you had wanked or had sex with a same sex partner or that he flies on a cloud with trumpets talking crap and burning people because they forgot the sabbath.

Show some respect for the unfathomable and stop singing shitty songs at him,he don't like it,its boring,all you ever ask for is shit for yourselves.
God laughs at you all imo,bunch of nobs,preaching repression and doom.
God is about love and peace,the devil is about chaos and violence because that is their nature.
Both are required for life and i was given my free will to speak my mind and make my choices and that is what i will do


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> pointless.
> 
> im debating this with someone who doesnt even know the basics of his own arguments or the "beliefe" ( lack thereof, go look up atheism) in his own debate.
> 
> ...


tronica, your saying i dont even know what i am and that im not athiest, well i say im athiest, because thats the closest to what a believe, and i usually dont even like to label myself in any of these terms, because the point of being athiest is to live without that idea of being part of a religious group and the definition of athiest may not fit my beliefs completely to the fucking T, but its the closest. so box me however you want....and plus were just running in circles.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> tronica, your saying i dont even know what i am and that im not athiest, well i say im athiest, because thats the closest to what a believe, and i usually dont even like to label myself in any of these terms, because the point of being athiest is to live without that idea of being part of a religious group and the definition of athiest may not fit my beliefs completely to the fucking T, but its the closest. so box me however you want....and plus were just running in circles.


 

hey now you've got it. thats exactly what an atheist is.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

natmoon said:


> The only person that mocks god is you lot.
> Do you really think that an omnipotent being that created everything would care that you had wanked or had sex with a same sex partner or that he flies on a cloud with trumpets talking crap and burning people because they forgot the sabbath.
> 
> Show some respect for the unfathomable and stop singing shitty songs at him,he don't like it,its boring,all you ever ask for is shit for yourselves.
> ...


hey bud, go back and read more.


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

well thats the point im just simply trynna make, i live my life, as if religion was never even a word or an idea


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

zig, what do you think happens to you when you die? do you believe in a soul or a concious beyond what you know now?


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## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> i can explain the big bang and evolution with religion.
> 
> why disregard it?
> 
> ...


Are you really stupid or just blind?
Read what you've posted.
I said the "universe" was impossible because it is and i still believe in god and the devil.
Something cannot come from nothing,the end.
Therefore the universe cannot exist yet it does making it impossible.

I don't need proof of any kind that there must be an equal and opposing force on either side of the universe,its totally obvious and basic physics.
The only debate is whether they are sentient in their entirety or if they just effect us as people on a daily basis due to the energy that they emit.
As i said before i am not agnostic and you don't read or understand fully before you speak.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

Quite frankly, humans only see time in a linear fashion,and so think of things as having a "beginning" and an "ending".The big bang is easily explained, and clues are observable in space as we see it today.Basically, if you look at supernovae, you can see the big bang in miniature...how, when the star has used up it's available supply of gases, heavier elements come into play...the star collapses in on itself,causing a violent expulsion of the surrounding star stuff.From this death, new stars emerge over time, and the cycle begins anew.So There is no real absolute beginning or ending, it is a never ending cycle that perpetuates itself over and over again.So theoretically, there have been many "universes".
Now, we can put the same question to you.WHere did god come from?Who created god?Who created the person who created god?Why did this god abandon us?Why didn't he leave a note, a clue as to his existence?Surely, he's existed for more than the 6000 years the bible spans, so why did it take people so long to write about him?Why didn't he let us know basic things like, the earth is round, the sun is the center of the solar system?


Tronica said:


> well if you believe in the big bang, and the scientifical theories that come with that, then where did the 2 atoms come from?
> 
> if nothing was created from something, what created the nothing?
> 
> ...


I was citing zeitgeist because it is an easily identifiable example.However, if you care to research, you'll see that there are many sources which confirm what it says, the origin of the Christ myth is nothing new.


Tronica said:


> oh god..
> 
> pls dont start with that.
> 
> lol


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

natmoon said:


> Are you really stupid or just blind?
> Read what you've posted.
> I said the "universe" was impossible because it is and i still believe in god and the devil.
> Something cannot come from nothing,the end.
> ...


 
disregarded.

zig good stuff. i gotta go but ill check for your answer later.


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

atheist and agnostic are words made by man to describe ppl by those who think they know better.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Now, we can put the same question to you.WHere did god come from?Who created god?Who created the person who created god?Why did this god abandon us?Why didn't he leaqve a note, a clue as to his existence?Surely, he's existed for more than the 6000 years the bible spans, so why did it take people so long to write about him?Why didn't he let us know basic things like, the earth is round, the sun is the center of the solar system?


I will answer all of this when I get back.

I've spent hours answering these very same easy questions already because everything thinks they can stump the faithful with this stuff.


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## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> disregarded.
> 
> zig good stuff. i gotta go but ill check for your answer later.


Your making my point for me.
One line double neg answers and a foolish man to boot


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> atheist and agnostic are words made by man to describe ppl by those who think they know better.


 
Foolish

every piece of language was created by man to describe or communicate something

and both of those words have VERY different meanings

learn them


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

natmoon said:


> Your making my point for me.
> One line double neg answers and a foolish man to boot


 
Hey man. Are you still talking to me?

I finished with you awhile ago.

I'm not reading your posts because frankly, you don't belong in this conversation.


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## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> Foolish
> 
> every piece of language was created by man to describe or communicate something
> 
> ...


Your just an arrogant fool that cannot listen,simple as that.
All of you answers are not answers just double negatives


----------



## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> Hey man. Are you still talking to me?
> 
> I finished with you awhile ago.
> 
> I'm not reading your posts because frankly, you don't belong in this conversation.


You still making my point for me,saying that i should just shut up and go away.
Your a complete fool simple as that


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> Foolish
> 
> every piece of language was created by man to describe or communicate something
> 
> ...


those words have no meaning to me. in the same way your religion has no meaning to me.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

natmoon said:


> Your just an arrogant fool that cannot listen,simple as that.
> All of you answers are not answers just double negatives


Sure they are.
Explain double negative to me, and explain where I do it.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> those words have no meaning to me. in the same way your religion has no meaning to me.


 
ok, well the words "the" "life" "death" "penis" and "vagina" have no meaning to me, just like you're lack of education has no meaning to me.


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## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> ok, well the words "the" "life" "death" "penis" and "vagina" have no meaning to me, just like you're lack of education has no meaning to me.


This guys a total codpiece,lol


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

Nooo.....I'm just wondering what your answers are.Because unless god came down and told you personally his reasons, you don't know.You cannot comprehend an infinite being with a finite mind.If he exists, and he is what the faithful claim him to be, then it is blasphemy,by the definition of the very faithful who profess to worship him,to speak for him.Because limited beings cannot truely comprehend a limitless one.


Tronica said:


> I will answer all of this when I get back.
> 
> I've spent hours answering these very same easy questions already because everything thinks they can stump the faithful with this stuff.


----------



## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> zig, what do you think happens to you when you die? do you believe in a soul or a concious beyond what you know now?


 i dont know. its as simple as that....so i guess the word athiest can be in a way vague, i dont chase the answers, and i dont care ...i just look at science and what we kno, and use those things to form my opinions, plus and athiest fam to influence my personal enlightenment lol and i just live my life, when we die, we all shall see, but based on what i kno, i dont think anything happenes, i think we cease to exist, because when you think about it its very arrogant to only believe that humans are special, does a lilttle fucking goldfish go to heaven or have an afterlife???i bet a lot of religious ppl have never even pondered that


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## ChinaCat (Feb 21, 2009)

This is the first and probably the last thread I will post in about religion because I feel there are few things that unless proven..... and NO ONE has hard evidence on either side. Faith is what allows people who are spiritual stand their ground, faith is what allows people who are agnostic to have confusion, and faith (or lack of it) is what allows people who are atheists to stand their ground.

Standing your ground and having the intelligence to "agree to disagree" after a discussion is one thing...... but so many times on hot topics (politics, religion etc)..... it doesn't work that way. 

We get into name calling.....what is that all about. My friend has a son who is downs syndrome and autistic..... do you thing he made a choice to be mentally "retarded?" You throwing that word around shows you are ignorant and callus... and since mentally challenged people do not happen to be as smart as many of you..... doesn't mean you should use that word as you are.  

I am not the PC police.... by no means.... just try to be kind in your debate.

My point to posting is.... regardless of what you believe.... be adult and non-judging... state your piece and debate. Then agree to disagree.... part... and go on with your life.

I really can't stand people who get internet muscles..... this is a friendly site.... let's keep it that way. 

Now, I do believe in God.... and I will not debate that fact. I have faith.... and I will listen but I do not feel the need to prove anything to anyone. I just try to live my life according to my beliefs..... and I really try to treat everyone the way I would like to be treated. Just let me say, may my God of my choice bless everyone here..... I send happy vibes and positive thoughts to everyone.....and if you are a non- believer..... please send happy thoughts and positive vibes my way. (no God included)

Gentle hugs to everyone..... calm these waters. Continue the debate... but please... no more name calling and personal attacks.


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## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

I am going to practice Spanish romance on my keyboard this guys just a wind up fool or a total gimp or both,lol


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

IM IGNORANT CUZ I USE THE WORD RETARDED??...WOW like a mentally challenged person really crossed my mind when i use that word, go fuck yourself, and you can say im ignorant for saying that too. and dont say im being tough either, you are being the forum police when you say dont use the word retarded.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Nooo.....I'm just wondering what your answers are.Because unless god came down and told you personally his reasons, you don't know.You cannot comprehend an infinite being with a finite mind.If he exists, and he is what the faithful claim him to be, then it is blasphemy,by the definition of the very faithful who profess to worship him,to speak for him.Because limited beings cannot truely comprehend a limitless one.


 
never said i spoke for him and never said i represented anything

where are you going with this?


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

natmoon said:


> This guys a total codpiece,lol


touche. not sure what planet freak boy is living on. btw my god spoke to when i was signing off before and he said 

'no you dumbass, get back on that chat and tell tronica he's a friggin idiot. if he thinks i'm wasting my time listening to him, he is very much mistaken. doesn't he think i've got better things to do than listen to his bullshit prayers. fuck i don't even care about the millions starving in africa.'


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> i dont know. its as simple as that....so i guess the word athiest can be in a way vague, i dont chase the answers, and i dont care ...i just look at science and what we kno, and use those things to form my opinions, plus and athiest fam to influence my personal enlightenment lol and i just live my life, when we die, we all shall see, but based on what i kno, i dont think anything happenes, i think we cease to exist, because when you think about it its very arrogant to only believe that humans are special, does a lilttle fucking goldfish go to heaven or have an afterlife???i bet a lot of religious ppl have never even pondered that


 

i think humans are the arrogant ones for a reason.

we were created in the image of god himself. we were given characteristics not unlike his. we carry his similarities with us becasue we are his "children" 

we were given free will and an evolving thought process. things that god himself has infinitately since he possesses everything in perfection.

and while i do not think that other creatures simply cease to exist, i do not think of them as equa to us either. we are special. and everything we know, was created for us.

i do not think we are his only children. the vastness of space is there for a reason, as far as im concerned, and a few others that i have discussed this with.

the big bang and the current contruction of our universe took a millenia to bring about. god is timeless. to him, that millenia had no toll. he created the earth, and the oceans, and the rest in what the bible calls "days". a day to god is not something we can understand, if god is not limited by time, he is not bound by "a day"

the big bang was gods creation, the big bang was god creating. the evolution of the planet was gods creating. god made the earth "and a day later" made the oceans. this is evolution, and im seriously simplfying the shit out of this becasue my thesis on this is actually 7 pages long. evolution and the big bang was god. science is god. does anyone follow? 

im gonna drudge my report up from last years theology class. its on my laptop somewhere and i go into much better detail on all of this and tie in evolution and science directly to god in ways even a 6 year old can understand.


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## Brick Top (Feb 21, 2009)

DontDoDrugs said:


> Its said that the anti christ will come to us as a charming, charismatic, handsome man and people will love him.
> 
> 
> the end of his 1st term as president ends in 2012.. which has ben prophesysed to be the end of the world.
> ...


 

If you read the Bible it says that the Old Roman Empire will be reformed, not as under the same control, but the same nations having come together. Some Bible experts claim that is what is happening with the E.U. 

It also says that there will be reports that one of the leaders of one of those nations has been assassinated, and technically he will have been, but that then the Devil will enter his body and he will live again and he will then bring about the major war where the Armies of the North, believed to be Russia and Russian Allies, will then head South and will be defeated. 

If that is true then no American leader could ever be the Anti-Christ since he/she would not be a leader of one of the nations making up the group of nations that once was the old Roman Empire. 

Personally I believe that President Obama is a dangerous inexperienced political neophyte that will do far more harm than good but if the Bible is correct, and if you are talking about the Anti-Christ then you must believe in the Bible, it is impossible that President Obama could be the Anti-Christ.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> never said i spoke for him and never said i represented anything
> 
> where are you going with this?


Well, actually, you kinda did...you told natmoon:



Tronica said:


> i
> and you don't sound very christian to me.
> dont mock the same god you claim you believe in the same page.


So to me, that implies you think yourself an authority on what a Christian should sound like,and that god would take offense at his words.And since you said that you would answer my previous questions as to where god came from,and I said that unless he personally came and told you,you wouldn't know.....I'm wondering if you can actually tell me, since you said these questions were easily answered...........I'm just asserting once again that you can't know, being a finite being, what an infinite being's reasons were or are.So have I stumped the faithful?


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## ChinaCat (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> IM IGNORANT CUZ I USE THE WORD RETARDED??...WOW like a mentally challenged person really crossed my mind when i use that word, go fuck yourself, and you can say im ignorant for saying that too. and dont say im being tough either, you are being the forum police when you say dont use the word retarded.


You do not know the definition of ignorant.....

The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.


I was educating you about how you sounded when you used the word retarded...... my friend Karen called me out about it too. I was uninformed on how it made her feel when I used the word... even though I used it with no ill intent. I guess I just don't want you to run into the same situation and hurt someones feelings..... even if unintentional.... 


My comments were not an attack.... I wanted you to know how you sounded. I am glad you had no thoughts about the mentally challenged.....that shows you were just ignorant (see def. above) to how you were coming across.



And as for you using the word"retarded".... hey... go for it. Make an ass out of yourself and show everyone how immature you really are. 


And by the way.... PC is politically correct. I, in no way have pushed my ideas on you.


Not once did I even say you were tough.... where did that come from too?



By the way.... thanks for the "f&%k you. Really shows you maturity again.... talk to me when you turn 18.


Sorry to everyone else...... I need to go now.... Vette needs his birthday massage.... and the day has been far to good to end it on this note.


Sweet dreams everyone!


Stoney...... glad you're back sweetie... I missed reading your posts!!!


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

ChinaCat said:


> This is the first and probably the last thread I will post in about religion because I feel there are few things that unless proven..... and NO ONE has hard evidence on either side. Faith is what allows people who are spiritual stand their ground, faith is what allows people who are agnostic to have confusion, and faith (or lack of it) is what allows people who are atheists to stand their ground.
> 
> Standing your ground and having the intelligence to "agree to disagree" after a discussion is one thing...... but so many times on hot topics (politics, religion etc)..... it doesn't work that way.
> 
> ...


i understand you point completely, although i stand my all my comments and will no way retract them. read my previous post re using the word retarded. however i do believe ppl who have blind faith in the bible and other religious texts are retarding themselves.

i am happy to send good vibes to anyone, even those who i disagree with. i reserve the right to say what i think.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

NIght China.


ChinaCat said:


> You do not know the definition of ignorant.....
> 
> The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.
> 
> ...


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> i think humans are the arrogant ones for a reason.
> 
> we were created in the image of god himself. we were given characteristics not unlike his. we carry his similarities with us becasue we are his "children"
> 
> ...


 see but you have proven my point and didnt care to admit that it is arrogance, now thats your opinion but come on....so while humans are living an afterlife or flying up to heaven...a squirrel gets mauled by a car and its just roadkill?nothing else....iono it just seems very...wrong to put humans in this god like category when we are actually just highly evolved animals


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## ChinaCat (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> i understand you point completely, although i stand my all my comments and will no way retract them. read my previous post re using the word retarded. however i do believe ppl who have blind faith in the bible and other religious texts are retarding themselves.
> 
> i am happy to send good vibes to anyone, even those who i disagree with. i reserve the right to say what i think.


Yes...... and you should state your thoughts and beliefs. and stand by them. I agree 100000000%. I just think things could have been phrased in a kinder way. The way you phrased it in the above quote.... much nicer than saying..."you're retarded if you believe...." and even better..... they are becoming less intelligent and lost in their beliefs. Get what I'm saying.... and like I said... I never even thought of using the word retarded until I used it around my friend. I felt like a big turd for hurting her feelings.

Thanks for the vibes...... even when people agree to disagree... they can still appreciate where each other are coming from. 

Hugs back to you!!!!

****Edit: Many lives could be save/saved if everyone agreed to disagree like adults. History has proven that may never happen. Sad thing about history.... if you don't learn from it, you are condemned to repeat it.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> see but you have proven my point and didnt care to admit that it is arrogance, now thats your opinion but come on....so while humans are living an afterlife or flying up to heaven...a squirrel gets mauled by a car and its just roadkill?nothing else....iono it just seems very...wrong to put humans in this god like category when we are actually just highly evolved animals


 
how come nothing else is highly evolved like us?

if evolution is your basis for this, and everything is equal, how come that squirrel is not equal to me and you?
its not. and you know its not. so how come evolution singled us out to rise so highly over the rest of the creatures that are equal to us?


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> see but you have proven my point and didnt care to admit that it is arrogance, now thats your opinion but come on....so while humans are living an afterlife or flying up to heaven...a squirrel gets mauled by a car and its just roadkill?nothing else....iono it just seems very...wrong to put humans in this god like category when we are actually just highly evolved animals


arrogance just sums up humans to tee. even those that don't believe in a dictated religious god.

'my arrogance is better than yours'


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> how come nothing else is highly evolved like us?
> 
> if evolution is your basis for this, and everything is equal, how come that squirrel is not equal to me and you?
> its not. and you know its not. so how come evolution singled us out to rise so highly over the rest of the creatures that are equal to us?


how do you know dolphins aren't as highly evolved as humans. just because they don't speak a language you understand or watch tv or use the internet or write books. arrogance at it's most malevolent.


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

ChinaCat said:


> You do not know the definition of ignorant.....
> 
> The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.
> 
> ...


 omg...call me wutever you like....haha this seriously made me laugh, you think its ignorance but really, the word retarded has just become a mainstream word for idiot,moron etc, and it has become so mainstream to the point that yes, of course i dont think of mentally challenged people when I used it, and I dont think i sounded ignorant because i wanted to say a common ass word, you just seem very sensitive to the word becuz you have a mentally handicapped friend, anyways, ive never been scolded or even corrected for using such a mild word....man... and yes i said go fuck yourself and it may have been a bit reactionary but you tried to make it seem as if i was bashing mentally challenged or something lol, since im the first person to use the word retarded on this thread, i assumed you were directing it at me...which...you were....anyways go check some other threads...someone might be using the word faggot or shit, gotta fight crime. oh and by the way, you were dead-on about my age, i am 18. ahh im so young and ignorant and dumb huh? wow.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> how do you know dolphins aren't as highly evolved as humans. just because they don't speak a language you understand or watch tv or use the internet or write books. arrogance at it's most malevolent.


 
k, greenpeace here.

im sorry if you think that the bug and rodent and are equal to us, but i don't.

nothing has ever showed me otherwise.

these creatures are not capable of creating art, of knowing love.

don't say they are because theyre not. their actions are not driven by emotions like human beings, they are purely driven by instinct. those that have been taught to display a sentiment otherwise are just that, taught and trained.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

It didn't.Dolphins are highly intelligent.We are all a part of this earth.We die and rot, and return to it, just like any other creature of this earth.The arrogant assumption that humans are somehow better has caused the extinction of species and the destruction of habitats.We're not the best, just the most murderous.We are out of harmony with our natural environment,and we see the consequences...the earth is a complex organism, and it is trying to shake us like a bad case of fleas.Always there are new diseases to fight,new disasters to overcome, and the more we try to rise above what we really are, the weaker we become.We over medicate, over vaccinate, over sterilize, and we are not allowing our immune systems to learn to adapt to these new threats,and so we are reliant upon our technology to save us.Eventually,it will catch up to us,and the human species will be another thing for the fossil record.The planet goes through cycles of mass extinction,and we can expect no better than the others who came before us.


Tronica said:


> how come nothing else is highly evolved like us?
> 
> if evolution is your basis for this, and everything is equal, how come that squirrel is not equal to me and you?
> its not. and you know its not. so how come evolution singled us out to rise so highly over the rest of the creatures that are equal to us?


----------



## ChinaCat (Feb 21, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> It didn't.Dolphins are highly intelligent.We are all a part of this earth.We die and rot, and return to it, just like any other creature of this earth.The arrogant assumption that humans are somehow better has caused the extinction of species and the destruction of habitats.We're not the best, just the most murderous.We are out of harmony with our natural environment,and we see the consequences...the earth is a complex organism, and it is trying to shake us like a bad case of fleas.Always there are new diseases to fight,new disasters to overcome, and the more we try to rise above what we really are, the weaker we become.We over medicate, over vaccinate, over sterilize, and we are not allowing our immune systems to learn to adapt to these new threats,and so we are reliant upon our technology to save us.Eventually,it will catch up to us,and the human species will be another thing for the fossil record.The planet goes through cycles of mass extinction,and we can expect no better than the others who came before us.


I do agree with that..... 100%. We are the worst thing that has ever happened to this earth. We are not worthy and we take a place that is very balanced and screw everything up all for selfish reasons.


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> how come nothing else is highly evolved like us?
> 
> if evolution is your basis for this, and everything is equal, how come that squirrel is not equal to me and you?
> its not. and you know its not. so how come evolution singled us out to rise so highly over the rest of the creatures that are equal to us?


 I fail to comprehend your meaning when you talk about evolution. Evolution is ALL ABOUT singling out the MOST FIT species, which is always a function of responses to the environment and ecosystem. There is nothing 'equal' about evolution.

For Man, it was the discovery of fire which allowed us to receive more nutrients from the food (cooked meat as opposed to raw), in turn allowing our brains to develop far in excess of other creatures over time. Humans are not special. If natural selection took a different course (natural disasters, famine, mass extinction events, meteors, etc.) humans would never have evolved out of the primate family and we could be living in a world populated by super-intelligent dolphins for all we know. The fact that human beings have survived this long is of course part random chance. Had the dinosaurs not gone extinct, eventually the most fit species would have evolved great intelligence like our own. Perhaps you should check your meaning when you talk about equality and evolution. The two don't mix.


----------



## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> It didn't.Dolphins are highly intelligent.We are all a part of this earth.We die and rot, and return to it, just like any other creature of this earth.The arrogant assumption that humans are somehow better has caused the extinction of species and the destruction of habitats.We're not the best, just the most murderous.We are out of harmony with our natural environment,and we see the consequences...the earth is a complex organism, and it is trying to shake us like a bad case of fleas.Always there are new diseases to fight,new disasters to overcome, and the more we try to rise above what we really are, the weaker we become.We over medicate, over vaccinate, over sterilize, and we are not allowing our immune systems to learn to adapt to these new threats,and so we are reliant upon our technology to save us.Eventually,it will catch up to us,and the human species will be another thing for the fossil record.The planet goes through cycles of mass extinction,and we can expect no better than the others who came before us.


Dolphins are not highly intelligent. They are just highly intelligent compared to other animals. Not humans.

And you say that we are doomed to become fossils. Maybe thro our own mistakes, surely, we are killing our planet. And it's easy to say that that will catch up with us and be the end of us. We are not however, de-evolving. You look at a cure for disease as an anti evolutionry bi-product. That is evolution at it's finest. The power to survive, to adapt and overcome, that is evolution of human beings. 

We are the only specices on the on the planet to be exempt from mainstream evolution. We don't have to wait for evolution to change us, becasue we can do it ourselves. Our brains have evolved to the point that we can create our own micro evolution. This is a trend that coudl continue forever. Further telescoping evolution to the point that it can be seen with the naked eye. Can any other creature in all of Earth's existence claim the same?


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## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

Your not highly intelligent at all,your just a monkey with a toy.
You have no idea how to even fix your own microwave oven.
You wave you remote control around thinking your so clever yet you invent nothing and do nothing except sleep,shag shit and die.
Your the same as any other worker ant


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> omg...call me wutever you like....haha this seriously made me laugh, you think its ignorance but really, the word retarded has just become a mainstream word for idiot,moron etc, and it has become so mainstream to the point that yes, of course i dont think of mentally challenged people when I used it, and I dont think i sounded ignorant because i wanted to say a common ass word, you just seem very sensitive to the word becuz you have a mentally handicapped friend, anyways, ive never been scolded or even corrected for using such a mild word....man... and yes i said go fuck yourself and it may have been a bit reactionary but you tried to make it seem as if i was bashing mentally challenged or something lol, since im the first person to use the word retarded on this thread, i assumed you were directing it at me...which...you were....anyways go check some other threads...someone might be using the word faggot or shit, gotta fight crime. oh and by the way, you were dead-on about my age, i am 18. ahh im so young and ignorant and dumb huh? wow.


pffff 18 that is young . not to young to understand what a waste of space current mainstream religions are tho. and definitely not to young to know what they believe. i'm 38 this year but i knew what i believed regarding religion when i was first taught RE in primary school. my beliefs haven't changed. ppl go on about faith... i have faith... i have faith that my beliefs are true.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

natmoon said:


> Your not highly intelligent at all,your just a monkey with a toy.
> You have no idea how to even fix your own microwave oven.
> You wave you remote control around thinking your so clever yet you invent nothing and do nothing except sleep,shag shit and die.
> Your the same as any other worker ant


 
i was hoping you had left to create that religion of yours.

its really not a bad idea.

you could be the next Ron L.


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

natmoon said:


> Your not highly intelligent at all,your just a monkey with a toy.
> You have no idea how to even fix your own microwave oven.
> You wave you remote control around thinking your so clever yet you invent nothing and do nothing except sleep,shag shit and die.
> Your the same as any other worker ant


probably doesn't do much shaggin but i reckon compensates with plenty of shitting.


----------



## Brazko (Feb 21, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> It didn't.Dolphins are highly intelligent.We are all a part of this earth.We die and rot, and return to it, just like any other creature of this earth.The arrogant assumption that humans are somehow better has caused the extinction of species and the destruction of habitats.We're not the best, just the most murderous.We are out of harmony with our natural environment,and we see the consequences...the earth is a complex organism, and it is trying to shake us like a bad case of fleas.Always there are new diseases to fight,new disasters to overcome, and the more we try to rise above what we really are, the weaker we become.We over medicate, over vaccinate, over sterilize, and we are not allowing our immune systems to learn to adapt to these new threats,and so we are reliant upon our technology to save us.Eventually,it will catch up to us,and the human species will be another thing for the fossil record.The planet goes through cycles of mass extinction,and we can expect no better than the others who came before us.


 
Awesome shit Stoney...+++++


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> pffff 18 that is young . not to young to understand what a waste of space current mainstream religions are tho. and definitely not to young to know what they believe. i'm 38 this year but i knew what i believed regarding religion when i was first taught RE in primary school. my beliefs haven't changed. ppl go on about faith... i have faith... i have faith that my beliefs are true.


 same here man, ive had these views on religion sice i was about 7, its not gonna change, and yeah 18's young, but i love it.


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## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> i was hoping you had left to create that religion of yours.
> 
> its really not a bad idea.
> 
> you could be the next Ron L.


No just a song,one of the 81 that i have written so far and published.
Along with the book that i am writing and the dvd i am making and the business i run.
What did you do today?
Lmfao,still a fool i see


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> k, greenpeace here.
> 
> im sorry if you think that the bug and rodent and are equal to us, but i don't.
> 
> ...



i don't recall mentioning bugs and rodents you damf. although they show more intelligence than you. so your saying our children aren't taught or trained. pmsl. have you ever seen apes interact. they do show signs of emotions.


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## ChinaCat (Feb 21, 2009)

natmoon said:


> No just a song,one of the 81 that i have written so far and published.
> Along with the book that i am writing and the dvd i am making and the business i run.
> What did you do today?
> Lmfao,still a fool i see


Nate... you a guitarist.... or a person of many talents?

Congrats on you accomplishments. I play piano.... for many years now.... and respect people who can write.... I have writers block... or just maybe just no talent. My ex-boyfriends all played guitar and would write their own music. 

 Good for you!


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> i don't recall mentioning bugs and rodents you damf. although they show more intelligence than you. so your saying our children aren't taught or trained. pmsl. have you ever seen apes interact. they do show signs of emotions.


 
........


yawn


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

ChinaCat said:


> Nate... you a guitarist.... or a person of many talents?
> 
> Congrats on you accomplishments. I play piano.... for many years now.... and respect people who can write.... I have writers block... or just maybe just no talent. My ex-boyfriends all played guitar and would write their own music.
> 
> Good for you!


 
i think he was being witty

:/


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

well no one has quoted what i said about evolution, but it pretty much sums it up....and i think of it as fact.


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## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> Still a fool?
> 
> Did you expect anything to change in your 5 minute hiatus, looking up the definition to words you've never even seen untl you read this thread?
> 
> ...


At last i have drawn out your true colours and you begin to make your racial remarks showing your true nature


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> same here man, ive had these views on religion sice i was about 7, its not gonna change, and yeah 18's young, but i love it.


enjoy 18 as long as you can bro coz it's all downhill from now on. respect on having your own views and not those dictated to you.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

natmoon said:


> At last i have drawn out your true colours and you begin to make your racial remarks showing your true nature


 

wtf are you talking about?

racist remarks?

are you kidding me? if you took coon as a black slang, then im sorry, you're the racist. get a dictionary.


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> enjoy 18 as long as you can bro coz it's all downhill from now on. respect on having your own views and not those dictated to you.


 Thanks man, yeah im trynna live it up, doin wut i can....shit ill get to look back on these years and remember my first couple grows


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

That's true, sadly.


ChinaCat said:


> I do agree with that..... 100%. We are the worst thing that has ever happened to this earth. We are not worthy and we take a place that is very balanced and screw everything up all for selfish reasons.


How do you know that dolphins aren't capable of thought?We compare them with our standards, but that's like trying to determine the sweetness of an orange by examining a bunch of apples.Quite simply, we don't know exactly how other animals think because we aren't them.So we can only test them by what we recognize as intelligence through what we know of ourselves, and that is hardly accurate.They don't even communicate in the same manner as we do.
I never said we were de-evolving, I said we were FAILING TO ADAPT.And as the universe shows us,change is the only constant in the universe, and that which does not change, dies. Just because we have tools to fix certain things doesn't mean we can possibly keep up with everything.Curing a disease with a vaccination is not evolution.Vaccinations are not evolution.These are just things we do to circumvent the natural process...but for every innovation, a hundred new problems spring up. And these new problems cannot be dealt with by our immune systems because we have not allowed our bodies to learn to respond to these new threats.We are trying to remove ourselves from our place in the natural order, and it WILL kill us.
We are not exempt from mainstream evolution.We are in no way better than any other creature on this earth...just different and differently suited to the unique circumstances in which we live.We shit just like the rest, we fuck, we die.We can postpone it,but never stop it entirely.We are meant to decay and return back to nature so we can provide the material to build successive generations.


Tronica said:


> Dolphins are not highly intelligent. They are just highly intelligent compared to other animals. Not humans.
> 
> And you say that we are doomed to become fossils. Maybe thro our own mistakes, surely, we are killing our planet. And it's easy to say that that will catch up with us and be the end of us. We are not however, de-evolving. You look at a cure for disease as an anti evolutionry bi-product. That is evolution at it's finest. The power to survive, to adapt and overcome, that is evolution of human beings.
> 
> We are the only specices on the on the planet to be exempt from mainstream evolution. We don't have to wait for evolution to change us, becasue we can do it ourselves. Our brains have evolved to the point that we can create our own micro evolution. This is a trend that coudl continue forever. Further telescoping evolution to the point that it can be seen with the naked eye. Can any other creature in all of Earth's existence claim the same?


----------



## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

ChinaCat said:


> Nate... you a guitarist.... or a person of many talents?
> 
> Congrats on you accomplishments. I play piano.... for many years now.... and respect people who can write.... I have writers block... or just maybe just no talent. My ex-boyfriends all played guitar and would write their own music.
> 
> Good for you!


I play synthesizers and drums.
Writers block does suck,i get over it with a big fat spliff and watching weird videos on the internet,no not porn,lol,stuff like peoples different ways of living from around the world,i gain exp from those films that i couldnt normally get from where i live and try to use that in my imagination to put some feeling into my work.

I do all sorts from ambient to classical and totally weird stuff,depends how i am feeling really.
I am currently practising and recreating Romanza but i keep getting bored with it tonight and coming back here.
All of my work is free to listen to and download.
I only have about 100,000 listens so i am not that popular or famous or anything but many people like my work,maybe they wouldn't if they had to pay for it though,lol
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=292542


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> wtf are you talking about?
> 
> racist remarks?
> 
> are you kidding me? if you took coon as a black slang, then im sorry, you're the racist. get a dictionary.


well i was offended by your racist comments and i've reported your post. religion is fair game but race isn't. anyone with half a brain knows what you meant.


----------



## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> wtf are you talking about?
> 
> racist remarks?
> 
> are you kidding me? if you took coon as a black slang, then im sorry, you're the racist. get a dictionary.


Its illegal in England and America to refer to black people as "coons" or "wogs","gollys" etc.. in a public place.
Your obviously a foolish kid and i have no more time for you


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## Kant (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> Still a fool?
> 
> Did you expect anything to change in your 5 minute hiatus, looking up the definition to words you've never even seen untl you read this thread?
> 
> ...


yeah...lots of people believe in an idea doesn't make it correct. examples: 2000 years ago everyone believed that the world was the center of the universe. 500 years ago everyone believed that world was flat. 40 years ago everyone believed that only the richest in the world would be able to afford computers (they took up entire rooms). get my point?


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## ChinaCat (Feb 21, 2009)

natmoon said:


> I play synthesizers and drums.
> Writers block does suck,i get over it with a big fat spliff and watching weird videos on the internet,no not porn,lol,stuff like peoples different ways of living from around the world,i gain exp from those films that i couldnt normally get from where i live and try to use that in my imagination to put some feeling into my work.
> 
> I do all sorts from ambient to classical and totally weird stuff,depends how i am feeling really.
> ...


Sorry... just realized I called you Nate. Oooppps!!! 

Nice... I book marked you... I look forward to checking things out tomorrow. Gotta rest. I should have never taken that nap this afternoon.


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

coon is a racist term lol no denying that


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> That's true, sadly.
> 
> How do you know that dolphins aren't capable of thought?We compare them with our standards, but that's like trying to determine the sweetness of an orange by examining a bunch of apples.Quite simply, we don't know exactly how other animals think because we aren't them.So we can only test them by what we recognize as intelligence through what we know of ourselves, and that is hardly accurate.They don't even communicate in the same manner as we do.
> I never said we were de-evolving, I said we were FAILING TO ADAPT.And as the universe shows us,change is the only constant in the universe, and that which does not change, dies. Just because we have tools to fix certain things doesn't mean we can possibly keep up with everything.Curing a disease with a vaccination is not evolution.Vaccinations are not evolution.These are just things we do to circumvent the natural process...but for every innovation, a hundred new problems spring up. And these new problems cannot be dealt with by our immune systems because we have not allowed our bodies to learn to respond to these new threats.We are trying to remove ourselves from our place in the natural order, and it WILL kill us.
> We are not exempt from mainstream evolution.We are in no way better than any other creature on this earth...just different and differently suited to the unique circumstances in which we live.We shit just like the rest, we fuck, we die.We can postpone it,but never stop it entirely.We are meant to decay and return back to nature so we can provide the material to build successive generations.


 
Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree becasue I am a strong believer in micro evolution and I do think that our own accomplishments to better our way of living are evolutions. And I do believe we are better than the other creatures of this Earth because of what my Dogma tells me and my own common sense. You look at an animal and see another creature. I see an animal. You say a dolphin could be as an intelligent as we are bubt I find that pretty irrational. I will once again say that animals are driven by instinct, maybe not 100% but very close to it. We are the exception. Instinct plays a role for everything in nature, but we are the only creatures who defy it at every given turn. We are the only creatures to do what we have done. And no I don't believe its because of natural selection. It is because we have other qualities not found in any other creatures. 
Cure for dsiease = evolution.
Mass agriculture = evolution.
Anthropoligical development = evolution.
The list goes on, and noone of those evolutions are dictated by the same laws that dictate evolution for the rest of Earths creatures because we are unique.


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## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

ChinaCat said:


> Sorry... just realized I called you Nate. Oooppps!!!
> 
> Nice... I book marked you... I look forward to checking things out tomorrow. Gotta rest. I should have never taken that nap this afternoon.


Its not my real name so its not a problem anyway,lol.
You may well like some of the tracks and some you wont,thanks for taking a look anyway


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> coon is a racist term lol no denying that


 
foolish

definition for coon -
A rustic or undignified person
A slang term describing ones mental state of being. 

I was using the term described in the second definition.

What the fuck would make you think I was being racist when I have no idea what color this guy is and have done nothing but belittle his low intelligence and not touch on anything racial in the slightest.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

I just have to interject,since your so proud of the shuffling masses of Catholicism,how then you are saying you approve of your pope,who KNEW about the rape of children by priests and did nothing to stop it,of how your wonderful church has transferred these priests to different areas over and over again where they can reoffend without recrimination,often paying off the victims in order to ensure silence.Oh yes, that's a religion you can really be proud of.I think I'd rather be alone than be part of a group of people who by their inaction give consent.So if we're going to start with the denominational bigotry,perhaps the denomination without reproach should cast the first stone.


Tronica said:


> Regardless of how messed up you think others religions are, at least it's not some bi-product of my own delusional fantasies.
> 
> I sleep easy knowing I'm not the only Catholic on this planet. I can't be completely bonkers. What about you? It must be lonely in the Luthersphere.


----------



## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> I just have to interject,since your so proud of the shuffling masses of Catholicism,how then you are saying you approve of your pope,who KNEW about the rape of children by priests and did nothing to stop it,of how your wonderful church has transferred these priests to different areas over and over again where they can reoffend without recrimination,often paying off the victims in order to ensure silence.Oh yes, that's a religion you can really be proud of.I think I'd rather be alone than be part of a group of people who by their inaction give consent.So if we're going to start with the denominational bigotry,perhaps the denomination without reproach should cast the first stone.


Go back and read the first couple pages of this thread.


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## ChinaCat (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> coon is a racist term lol no denying that


So... it is bad to say those words...... but you can say bad things about mentally challenged people. Tsk, Tsk, tsk... does the word hypocrite mean anything to you.

I was trying to help you learn something......

It is not bad when a younger person takes the advice of someone who is older...... and sometime wiser about somethings. (not everything.. by no means)


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## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

I wish i did have low intelligence,its so much easier to be an ignorant fool


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

natmoon said:


> I wish i did have low intelligence,its so much easier to be an ignorant fool


 
Good one.....

ffs


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## ChinaCat (Feb 21, 2009)

natmoon said:


> I wish i did have low intelligence,its so much easier to be an ignorant fool


LOL..... ignorance is bliss sometimes.... isn't it.

I always promised myself I would never post in politics or religion.... I should have stayed in the I love you thread.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

Where do we resist our instincts?The instinct to procreate?CHECK.To survive?CHECK.To protect the young?For the most part...CHECK. You're just like every one of us,you WILL feed the worms when you die.Science and medicine are not evolution, they are just fancy tools humans have developed as a result of our evolution.Here's the definition of evolution.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
Here's an excerpt.In biology, *evolution* is change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. These changes are caused by a combination of three main processes: variation, reproduction, and selection. Genes that are passed on to an organism's offspring produce the inherited traits that are the basis of evolution. These traits vary within populations, with organisms showing heritable differences in their traits. 

It says nothing about medicine or technology being a part of the actual evolutionary process.


Tronica said:


> Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree becasue I am a strong believer in micro evolution and I do think that our own accomplishments to better our way of living are evolutions. And I do believe we are better than the other creatures of this Earth because of what my Dogma tells me and my own common sense. You look at an animal and see another creature. I see an animal. You say a dolphin could be as an intelligent as we are bubt I find that pretty irrational. I will once again say that animals are driven by instinct, maybe not 100% but very close to it. We are the exception. Instinct plays a role for everything in nature, but we are the only creatures who defy it at every given turn. We are the only creatures to do what we have done. And no I don't believe its because of natural selection. It is because we have other qualities not found in any other creatures.
> Cure for dsiease = evolution.
> Mass agriculture = evolution.
> Anthropoligical development = evolution.
> The list goes on, and noone of those evolutions are dictated by the same laws that dictate evolution for the rest of Earths creatures because we are unique.


----------



## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

uhhh chinacat, i wasnt making fun of mentally challenged ppl...again and i didnt say it was bad to say anything lol i dont think any words are bad, i believe in freedom of speech no matter how radical that speech can be, and tronica, i didnt say u were being racist, but it is a racist term, or lets put it this way, if i said that in my city, black people would take offense


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

ChinaCat said:


> So... it is bad to say those words...... but you can say bad things about mentally challenged people. Tsk, Tsk, tsk... does the word hypocrite mean anything to you.
> 
> I was trying to help you learn something......
> 
> It is not bad when a younger person takes the advice of someone who is older...... and sometime wiser about somethings. (not everything.. by no means)


i don't recall him saying bad things about mentally challenged ppl.(ffs that's such a pc bullshit way of wording something, do you call a drug addict substancely challenged). making racist remarks is totally different. the word coon is not described like that in the OED and the context it was used in was clearly racist.


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## natmoon (Feb 21, 2009)

ChinaCat said:


> LOL..... ignorance is bliss sometimes.... isn't it.
> 
> I always promised myself I would never post in politics or religion.... I should have stayed in the I love you thread.


Thats why i have never heard of you.
I've never been in that sub forum,lol.
Youngsters don't understand the bliss of ignorance because they have no reference point as of yet anyway


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

And, uh, I've read every page of this thread, thanks.I certainly don't need a lesson in comprehension.I was responding directly to a poorly veiled assertion you made that your particular denomination was somehow superior because of the numbers it boasts.I say,Hitler had a lot of followers, too.Didn't make him right.


Tronica said:


> Go back and read the first couple pages of this thread.


----------



## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Here's the definition of evolution.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution


Such a simple definition, and not at all correct. 

And wiki linked at that. 

But I'm going to correct a wiki student, it's pointless.

Watch this. Evolution is not as simple as you try and define it with your wiki link. This is just an excrept from a philisophical animation that was released a few years back but maybe it will open your mind to another aspect of the HUMAN evolution.

I'm not a dolphin and I choose not to evolve like a dolphin and therefore that is my reality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/saxX-Z6w3p4


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> i don't recall him saying bad things about mentally challenged ppl.(ffs that's such a pc bullshit way of wording something, do you call a drug addict substancely challenged). making racist remarks is totally different. the word coon is not described like that in the OED and the context it was used in was clearly racist.


 thats becuz i never said a thing about mentally challenged ppl lol


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> thats becuz i never said a thing about mentally challenged ppl lol


i know but are you substancely challenged or a drug addict. lol


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## ChinaCat (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> uhhh chinacat, i wasnt making fun of mentally challenged ppl...again and i didnt say it was bad to say anything lol i dont think any words are bad, i believe in freedom of speech no matter how radical that speech can be, and tronica, i didnt say u were being racist, but it is a racist term, or lets put it this way, if i said that in my city, black people would take offense


Sweetie.... and if you said retarded at the special olympics.. they would take offense. No matter how you meant it.

I have faith (in you) that you will catch on... 

Keep your beliefs....just speak with intelligence and your point will be taken more seriously!!!

And I will keep busting on you... you seem like a great guy. (can you tell I'm a teacher.... been one for 22 years....) (I am a pita... Pain in the arse)

Now be a great guy and make me proud.


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## ChinaCat (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> i know but are you substancely challenged or a drug addict. lol


What AG said ^^^^^


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 21, 2009)

ChinaCat said:


> Sweetie.... and if you said retarded at the special olympics.. they would take offense. No matter how you meant it.
> 
> I have faith (in you) that you will catch on...
> 
> ...


 Well when i jumped the gun to quick and said that to you, I was really wrong becuz I wasnt aware i was speaking to a woman, sorry lol and I will definitly try and be more aware in the future, and be more tolerant no matter how im trynna use the word


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

ChinaCat said:


> What AG said ^^^^^


sorry chinacat but you took that out of context. it was meant to be a piss take on the phrase mentally challenged. i would not consider any one with an issue retarding their mental function as mentally challenged just as i wouldn't consider any one with a drug addiction as substancely challenged.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

Wiki happens to be the first link I chose.You can pick a dozen more to confirm it.Usually when we have no valid argument we attempt to either attack someone's grammar,spelling, or source.I could do the same with your youtube link.Just because you say you CHOOSE not to evolve like the rest of the creatures who inhabit this earth doesn't mean jack squat.Because if you were really above the natural order, you wouldn't have to die.Or do you CHOOSE to?Did you CHOOSE the form you inhabit right now?Fact of the matter is, those who cannot comprehend a life without a purpose are afraid to face nothingness.You ARE mortal.You WILL die.Parts of you will be recycled.You don't get to CHOOSE not to do it any more than the rest of us.Evolution is not about CHOICE in that way, it's about CHANCE.


Tronica said:


> Such a simple definition, and not at all correct.
> 
> And wiki linked at that.
> 
> ...


----------



## ChinaCat (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> sorry chinacat but you took that out of context. it was meant to be a piss take on the phrase mentally challenged. i would not consider any one with an issue retarding their mental function as mentally challenged just as i wouldn't consider any one with a drug addiction as substancely challenged.


It was a bad attempt at sarcasm to diffuse what you were trying to start up again...... yikes.... the internet sucks.... things get so confused.


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## ChinaCat (Feb 21, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> Well when i jumped the gun to quick and said that to you, I was really wrong becuz I wasnt aware i was speaking to a woman, sorry lol and I will definitly try and be more aware in the future, and be more tolerant no matter how im trynna use the word


Whew...... that was the whole point a million pages ago. 

No need for sorry.... all's good. Now.... speak intelligently... and state your point. And above all..... enjoy being 18!!!!!

Hugs sweetie!!! 

***** Now one more person will be kinder....... who's next.


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Wiki happens to be the first link I chose.You can pick a dozen more to confirm it.Usually when we have no valid argument we attempt to either attack someone's grammar,spelling, or source.I could do the same with your youtube link.Just because you say you CHOOSE not to evolve like the rest of the creatures who inhabit this earth doesn't mean jack squat.Because if you were really above the natural order, you wouldn't have to die.Or do you CHOOSE to?Did you CHOOSE the form you inhabit right now?Fact of the matter is, those who cannot comprehend a life without a purpose are afraid to face nothingness.You ARE mortal.You WILL die.Parts of you will be recycled.You don't get to CHOOSE not to do it any more than the rest of us.Evolution is not about CHOICE in that way, it's about CHANCE.


stoney bro, all of you will be recycled not just parts. even if you are cremated. i know you all ready knew that but i just wanted to correct you. (hehe irony based on one of your previous posts). respect.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

Yeah, I meant to say YOUR parts, but oh well.


AGSteve said:


> stoney bro, all of you will be recycled not just parts. even if you are cremated. i know you all ready knew that but i just wanted to correct you. (hehe irony based on one of your previous posts). respect.


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

ChinaCat said:


> It was a bad attempt at sarcasm to diffuse what you were trying to start up again...... yikes.... the internet sucks.... things get so confused.


yes a very bad attempt. sarcasm isn't meant to be subtle. i'm not trying to startup anything btw. just speaking my mind. we've all got to do it (speak our minds) before the govt introduces the thought police. in the uk isp's are already introducing deep packet inspection and to with hold your encryption key is a criminal offence. anyway that was ot.


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## ChinaCat (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> yes a very bad attempt. sarcasm isn't meant to be subtle. i'm not trying to startup anything btw. just speaking my mind. we've all got to do it (speak our minds) before the govt introduces the thought police. in the uk isp's are already introducing deep packet inspection and to with hold your encryption key is a criminal offence. anyway that was ot.


We do have scary times ahead of us!!!! We will be losing all freedoms...

**** edit: and I teach middle school..... so my sarcasm has to be subtle... damn school kids.


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Yeah, I meant to say YOUR parts, but oh well.


i know what you meant, just trying to inject a bit of british humor.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

Damn dry British wit, lol.


AGSteve said:


> i know what you meant, just trying to inject a bit of british humor.


----------



## ChinaCat (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> i know what you meant, just trying to inject a bit of british humor.





Stoney McFried said:


> Damn dry British wit, lol.



Don't worry.... just a flesh wound!!!!


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Wiki happens to be the first link I chose.You can pick a dozen more to confirm it.Usually when we have no valid argument we attempt to either attack someone's grammar,spelling, or source.I could do the same with your youtube link.Just because you say you CHOOSE not to evolve like the rest of the creatures who inhabit this earth doesn't mean jack squat.Because if you were really above the natural order, you wouldn't have to die.Or do you CHOOSE to?Did you CHOOSE the form you inhabit right now?Fact of the matter is, those who cannot comprehend a life without a purpose are afraid to face nothingness.You ARE mortal.You WILL die.Parts of you will be recycled.You don't get to CHOOSE not to do it any more than the rest of us.Evolution is not about CHOICE in that way, it's about CHANCE.


 
losing argument and im done explaining it to you

if you want to be like the dolphins go ahead.

ill be a man, and do as man can do.

peace


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> losing argument and im done explaining it to you
> 
> if you want to be like the dolphins go ahead.
> 
> ...


your an ape and so are all your relatives. so are all of us and our relatives.


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> your an ape and so are all your relatives. so are all of us and our relatives.


 
at least im not a fucking dolphin


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Wiki happens to be the first link I chose.You can pick a dozen more to confirm it.Usually when we have no valid argument we attempt to either attack someone's grammar,spelling, or source.I could do the same with your youtube link.Just because you say you CHOOSE not to evolve like the rest of the creatures who inhabit this earth doesn't mean jack squat.Because if you were really above the natural order, you wouldn't have to die.Or do you CHOOSE to?Did you CHOOSE the form you inhabit right now?Fact of the matter is, those who cannot comprehend a life without a purpose are afraid to face nothingness.You ARE mortal.You WILL die.Parts of you will be recycled.You don't get to CHOOSE not to do it any more than the rest of us.Evolution is not about CHOICE in that way, it's about CHANCE.


 
p.s.


you didn't watch the video

dont debate with me if you're not willing to think outside your wiki box.


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## ChinaCat (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> your an ape and so are all your relatives. so are all of us and our relatives.


Not me..... and I'm sticking to it. No debates..... 

And I leave still loving you guys!!!!

Sweet dreams!!!!


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

Yes, losing because you don't get to dictate your reality in that way.You are a mammal,and you can't get around that, no matter how much you try to deny it.It's not about being LIKE something, it's simply what you ARE,and that's that.Not better, not worse, just different.But still made of the same basic elements,and subject to the same restrictions as any other creature of Earth.


Tronica said:


> losing argument and im done explaining it to you
> 
> if you want to be like the dolphins go ahead.
> 
> ...


----------



## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> at least im not a fucking dolphin


i don't know, it would seem you have been trained and taught very well in the art of...


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## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Yes, losing because you don't get to dictate your reality in that way.You are a mammal,and you can't get around that, no matter how much you try to deny it.It's not about being LIKE something, it's simply what you ARE,and that's that.Not better, not worse, just different.But still made of the same basic elements,and subject to the same restrictions as any other creature of Earth.


 
Ugh, listen

I have polio. But since I'm human and I can cure polio. I will.

This is me beating your outdated evolution.

Grasp it?

This is me beating your death. This is me making the choice to live.

My heart is failing, I will die soon because of it. 

I decide to make a new heart using the technology available to me.

This is me beating your death, this is me beating your outdated evolution. This is me making the choice to live?

Grasp it yet?


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## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> Ugh, listen
> 
> I have polio. But since I'm human and I can cure polio. I will.
> 
> ...


i'm sorry to hear that your dieing and i hope you don't suffer pain in the process.

how are you making a new heart?


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## egluv4u (Feb 21, 2009)

Honestly his name "barack" in arabic means blessing.... He is not CHRIST nor the ANTICHRIST.... His family is a strong family of CHISTIANS.

https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/159418-what-christ.html

God is Love  Peace and love


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

Uh,no, I watched the video, I just don't think youtube is the last word in science.What he's describing is not biological evolution.Period.And you cannot escape that.He's talking of the advancement of technology,and the use of that to bypass the natural process.If that were possible, we would not be human.He's talking about artificial life forms,and they don't fit into what you ARE right now.Telescopic evolution is a theory, not a FACT.Truth, justice, freedom...those are concepts, not inherited traits.What you are right now is fact, and that, my friend is a mammal.


Tronica said:


> p.s.
> 
> 
> you didn't watch the video
> ...


----------



## Brazko (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> Ugh, listen
> 
> I have polio. But since I'm human and I can cure polio. I will.
> 
> ...


Well I've just caught most of the end of this but would like to ask.......If you continue to replace that which is defective about yourself then you will no longer be human and therefore have evolved from your primitive biological form.......Right?


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## Brazko (Feb 21, 2009)

this is some spooky shit......


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

No, this is you postponing the inevitable.Don't talk down to me, I've had no trouble grasping every concept you've presented to me.You make an artificial heart using TECHNOLOGY.That is not evolution.You're going to have to account for how your organic body is going to react to a synthetic part....and that probably means medication for the rest of your life to suppress your body's natural reaction to a foreign material.So no, you're not evolving,you're postponing, you're bypassing, you're buying time.


Tronica said:


> Ugh, listen
> 
> I have polio. But since I'm human and I can cure polio. I will.
> 
> ...


----------



## egluv4u (Feb 21, 2009)

Honestly his name "barack" in arabic means blessing.... He is not CHRIST nor the ANTICHRIST.... His family is a strong family of CHISTIANS.

What is Christ?

God is Love Peace and love


----------



## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Uh,no, I watched the video, I just don't think youtube is the last word in science.What he's describing is not biological evolution.Period.And you cannot escape that.He's talking of the advancement of technology,and the use of that to bypass the natural process.If that were possible, we would not be human.He's talking about artificial life forms,and they don't fit into what you ARE right now.Telescopic evolution is a theory, not a FACT.Truth, justice, freedom...those are concepts, not inherited traits.What you are right now is fact, and that, my friend is a mammal.


there is no denying that he is a mammal. that is definitely fact. truth, justice, freedom... yep unfortunately concepts that are sadly lacking in all of us.


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## egluv4u (Feb 21, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> No, this is you postponing the inevitable.Don't talk down to me, I've had no trouble grasping every concept you've presented to me.You make an artificial heart using TECHNOLOGY.That is not evolution.You're going to have to account for how your organic body is going to react to a synthetic part....and that probably means medication for the rest of your life to suppress your body's natural reaction to a foreign material.So no, you're not evolving,you're postponing, you're bypassing, you're buying time.


I didn't read this discussion from the top but I'm assuming your discussing stem cell research/implementation..... Correct? 
I Love what you said here... It is very articulate and well spoken... You got me on your side with that matter.... aka. Don't "play god"... We have the technology to handle heart transplants (Big form of LOVE) we don't need to artificially make them.... that may or may not be a disastrous ending.

God is Love  Peace and Love


----------



## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

Brazko said:


> Well I've just caught most of the end of this but would like to ask.......If you continue to replace that which is defective about yourself then you will no longer be human and therefore have evolved from your primitive biological form.......Right?


 
Yep, that is right.

This is human beings creating their own evolution. This is called Neo-evolution and the topic has been discussed for years. Much before that movie was made. We were discussing this in Philosophy 6 years ago. It's a fascinating topic and many great minds have grapsed this concept as a concise one.

And that's exactly what I'm arguing.

This guy says I'm just like any other creature. But I defy all other creatures at every turn. He's not looking at the evolution of intelligence, only the evolution of the physical. And therefore comparing us to animals, when the fact is our uniqueness (that ive touched on many times) differentiates us from that evolution. What makes us unique? Our brains. Our intelligence. Through the evolution of my mind I am able to manifest my own external evolutions.


----------



## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Brazko said:


> Well I've just caught most of the end of this but would like to ask.......If you continue to replace that which is defective about yourself then you will no longer be human and therefore have evolved from your primitive biological form.......Right?


i would say that depends on what you replace parts with. i would also say that being able to understand how you could replace such parts is an evolution in knowledge.


----------



## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> there is no denying that he is a mammal. that is definitely fact. truth, justice, freedom... yep unfortunately concepts that are sadly lacking in all of us.


 
evolution is not a "now" thing

it is a past, present, and future.

so what is lacking in us right now, could have been in our past, or could be in our future.


----------



## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> evolution is not a "now" thing
> 
> it is a past, present, and future.
> 
> so what is lacking in us right now, could have been in our past, or could be in our future.


not sure what point your trying to put across in your last sentence.

i think even us infadels would agree that evolution is not a now thing. it has been, is and will be.

this seems to contradict most if not all of your earlier statements. or is it that you just refuse the idea of being a descendant of an ape on the tree of life?


----------



## Tronica (Feb 21, 2009)

AGSteve said:


> not sure what point your trying to put across in your last sentence.
> 
> i think even us infadels would agree that evolution is not a now thing. it has been, is and will be.
> 
> this seems to contradict most if not all of your earlier statements. or is it that you just refuse the idea of being a descendant of an ape on the tree of life?


 
ugh

no, you're not following.

you're trying to use what i say to validate you own points?

do i honestly come off and someone who would contradict himself so easily

look closer at what i said and figure it out.


----------



## Brazko (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> Yep, that is right.
> 
> This is human beings creating their own evolution. This is called Neo-evolution and the topic has been discussed for years. Much before that movie was made. We were discussing this in Philosophy 6 years ago. It's a fascinating topic and many great minds have grapsed this concept as a concise one.
> 
> ...


I see, only quip I shall find in what you have said, is that Our Brain (intelligence that is in Direct Contrast with our Body) the more developed the body is, the less developed the Brain, and vice versa.......the Less Developed the Body the Larger the brain (Intellectually speaking) that mammal may be as with any species of any kingdom, which have all undergone changes......and the majority of higher intellectual Animals happen to be some type of Meat Eater........Right? Good discussion sounds like tho.......wish I would've attended college for those discussions


----------



## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

First of all, I'm not a guy.Secondly, you can't claim to be intellectually superior when you have no viable way of measuring the intelligence of other animals because the only thing you have to compare it with is yourself.You Don't KNOW how the thought processes of other creatures work,because you ARE NOT THEM. So you know nothing except what is familiar to you.
The evolution of intelligence is a direct result of biological processes...to put it simply, if your ancestors hadn't decided to eat meat, you wouldn't have been able to benefit from that by inheriting your big brain.Your brain is an organ.Any intelligence you might or might not have is directly related to the function and chemical processes of that organ.
So you think your mind is a unique thing, but you really have no idea.You only have yourself as a reference.The goals of humans may be totally different than that of other creatures,and therefore, since they don't recognize the same things as we do as important,they don't respond to our intelligence tests in the same way...hence we say we are better.
If with your mind you could manifest your own external evolutions,why then would you have chosen to be like all of the rest of the humans and mammals, earthbound, and in a perpetual state of decay?Because in fact you have no choice in that way.You are a biological organism,subject to the limitations of said organism.You are no better, only different.You WILL decay like the rest of the biological organisms,and the part of you which fueled your thoughts and intelligence, YOUR BRAIN, will decay as well.You're not special.You are made of decaying organic matter, just like every other living thing on this earth.Your dream of telescopic evolution will certainly not come in your lifetime.Fight all you want,yell, scream, try to assign it a higher purpose.In the end,it will be as it always is.


Tronica said:


> Yep, that is right.
> 
> This is human beings creating their own evolution. This is called Neo-evolution and the topic has been discussed for years. Much before that movie was made. We were discussing this in Philosophy 6 years ago. It's a fascinating topic and many great minds have grapsed this concept as a concise one.
> 
> ...


----------



## AGSteve (Feb 21, 2009)

Tronica said:


> ugh
> 
> no, you're not following.
> 
> ...


no i'm not trying to validate my own points with anything you say.

yes you do come across as someone contradicts himself all the time.

i've read everything you've said and most of it was bullshit imo.

we did agree on one point tho that intelligence evolves. not in the same way as biological processes evolved us from apes. intelligence evolves by passing our knowledge on to our children and they take the ideas another step forward.


----------



## Stoney McFried (Feb 21, 2009)

Anyway folks, think I've presented my side of the debate to my satisfaction.It's been fun bantering back and forth, but I'm off to bed.Night all.


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## AGSteve (Feb 22, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> First of all, I'm not a guy.Secondly, you can't claim to be intellectually superior when you have no viable way of measuring the intelligence of other animals because the only thing you have to compare it with is yourself.You Don't KNOW how the thought processes of other creatures work,because you ARE NOT THEM. So you know nothing except what is familiar to you.
> The evolution of intelligence is a direct result of biological processes...to put it simply, if your ancestors hadn't decided to eat meat, you wouldn't have been able to benefit from that by inheriting your big brain.Your brain is an organ.Any intelligence you might or might not have is directly related to the function and chemical processes of that organ.
> So you think your mind is a unique thing, but you really have no idea.You only have yourself as a reference.The goals of humans may be totally different than that of other creatures,and therefore, since they don't recognize the same things as we do as important,they don't respond to our intelligence tests in the same way...hence we say we are better.
> If with your mind you could manifest your own external evolutions,why then would you have chosen to be like all of the rest of the humans and mammals, earthbound, and in a perpetual state of decay?Because in fact you have no choice in that way.You are a biological organism,subject to the limitations of said organism.You are no better, only different.You WILL decay like the rest of the biological organisms,and the part of you which fueled your thoughts and intelligence, YOUR BRAIN, will decay as well.You're not special.You are made of decaying organic matter, just like every other living thing on this earth.Your dream of telescopic evolution will certainly not come in your lifetime.Fight all you want,yell, scream, try to assign it a higher purpose.In the end,it will be as it always is.


definitely we are not superior to any other organism on the planet. would you agree tho that intelligence as we know it in humans is currently evolving due to passing our knowledge on to our children so that they can further our ideas. or would you call it something else?


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## Tronica (Feb 22, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> First of all, I'm not a guy.Secondly, you can't claim to be intellectually superior when you have no viable way of measuring the intelligence of other animals because the only thing you have to compare it with is yourself.You Don't KNOW how the thought processes of other creatures work,because you ARE NOT THEM. So you know nothing except what is familiar to you.
> The evolution of intelligence is a direct result of biological processes...to put it simply, if your ancestors hadn't decided to eat meat, you wouldn't have been able to benefit from that by inheriting your big brain.Your brain is an organ.Any intelligence you might or might not have is directly related to the function and chemical processes of that organ.
> So you think your mind is a unique thing, but you really have no idea.You only have yourself as a reference.The goals of humans may be totally different than that of other creatures,and therefore, since they don't recognize the same things as we do as important,they don't respond to our intelligence tests in the same way...hence we say we are better.
> If with your mind you could manifest your own external evolutions,why then would you have chosen to be like all of the rest of the humans and mammals, earthbound, and in a perpetual state of decay?Because in fact you have no choice in that way.You are a biological organism,subject to the limitations of said organism.You are no better, only different.You WILL decay like the rest of the biological organisms,and the part of you which fueled your thoughts and intelligence, YOUR BRAIN, will decay as well.You're not special.You are made of decaying organic matter, just like every other living thing on this earth.Your dream of telescopic evolution will certainly not come in your lifetime.Fight all you want,yell, scream, try to assign it a higher purpose.In the end,it will be as it always is.


We're discussing evolution and you're telling me what I can't do _right now_.



I'm going to bed too.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

As the organ(brain) evolves,so does the abilities it possesses.Cause and effect.


AGSteve said:


> definitely we are not superior to any other organism on the planet. would you agree tho that intelligence as we know it in humans is currently evolving due to passing our knowledge on to our children so that they can further our ideas. or would you call it something else?


No, I'm disagreeing with your entire theory.Now quit acting like you're intellectually superior because I can't think of any of your arguments as viable when you cite the Catholic church in the same sentence as evolution.So we'll agree to disagree.


Tronica said:


> We're discussing evolution and you're telling me what I can't do _right now_.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to bed too.


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

This is a conclusion I also believe that was discussed in part with the original poster, and you can say all you want about that but this excrept still remains a better explanation than anything seen on here, especially the made up religion.

*God does not exist. God is existence.*

Let me start with a little background introduction. I was born and raised a Catholic and faith has always been a big part of my life. As I grew older and went to school I began to learn science and I enjoyed it. But the two seemed at times to conflict, especially the belief in God the creator and the theory of evolution. Without knowing much about evolution, and feeling that it took away from God somehow, I read about arguments against the theory. No proof of macro evolution, the reliability (or unreliability) of radiometric dating methods, etc. I was strong in my belief when the theory was weak. But then I took a philosophy class (in college) in which evolution was discussed as a topic. I began to see the flaws in my own arguments and realized that if I wanted to weaken the theory of evolution I would have to study the science for myself. That class and philosophy teacher where a big influence on my life. I went on to minor in geology specifically so that I could study the fossil record and evolution. I had another great teacher, a paleontologist. I took a class called 'life of the past' and another called 'evolutionary concepts' from him. To make a long story short all the walls finally came tumbling down. I had to admit to myself that Darwin was on to something, the evidence was overwhelming. Knowing that there can be no contradiction between science and religion I was stuck with a rather uneasy belief in a creator and a full acceptance of the tenets of the theory of evolution. I knew the two had to be compatible but I just didn't know exactly how they where. I was not satisfied with this and for the past year or so I have been thinking about how the relationship could be strengthened between these two beliefs. I wanted to have a strong, logical, rational reason for why God created through evolution because I have come to believe that is how it was done.

Finally let me say that what I came up with is no scientific theory or proof of creation. I think that any such thing is impossible because such proof would begin to infringe on free will and that cannot happen. The ideas that I will present represent my own thought on the matter although they are not necessarily new ideas I was heavily influenced by the philosophy and theology that I have studies. I have not discussed these thoughts with anyone and feel now that I have reached a point where I should begin to test these ideas in a public forum, so here goes....

The first thing that one needs is a proper understanding of the nature of God as creator. God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, etc. God is the ultimate reality. But if one is to prove that God is creator one must prove that God exists right? I came across the idea that God is not _a being _but _being itself_. This made me realize that asking whether God exists or not made no sense. When this question is put forth God is being reduced to a thing in the very asking of the question. If existence is a property that God either has or does not have, then it (existence) is more powerful than God, God becomes subservient to it. And it makes no sense to ask if existence exists since by the very fact that anything exists at all existence must be a necessary property of reality. What follows is that if time exists then it does so by partaking in existence and so existence is not subservient to time and is therefor timeless, eternal. In fact all things that exist, either actually exist or possibly exist from our perceptive, partake in existence. Unicorns have an existence even if it is only as a mental concept and not in physical reality. Existence is everywhere for everyplace that is, exists, even nowhere and nothing exist in some way. Existence is omnipresent So existence would have access to perfect knowledge of all things and by way of the arguments put forth by logical positivism this access would result in total perfect knowledge of everything, existence is omniscient. With total presence and total knowledge total power is not far behind. The more I thought about it the more clear it seemed to me, *God does not exist... God is existence*. The next question then is how does God give being itself, existence itself, to specific acts of being, specific existing entities like me and you and how does this relate to evolution?

Having existence as the metaphysical root of reality I wondered where essence came into play. I thought that perhaps instead of thinking of essence as something that provided being, that perhaps it was something that merely limited God's being. Think of essence as a filter through which God/existence flows through into specific being. Existence would flow out of God through the filter of the essence of, for example, our universe to become matter in space and time. Existence would flow through the filter of humanity to become a bipedal biological machine and then flow further through our individual essence, our own soul, to become our own particular act of being. In this way, God is a transcendent, all powerful, ungraspable, reality but at the same time is intimately connected to and personally knows each and every corner of all that is, was, and ever will be. God is both personal and transcendent. God is both creator of all reality and a the same time that which sustains it moment to moment, by continually pouring himself out into our reality. Like the psalm says:

"Of old you laid the foundations of the earth; the heavens are the works of your hands. They perish but you remain; they all wear out like a garment; like clothing you change them and they are changed, but you are the same, your years have no end. 

Let me say again, this is not a proof, it is a logical system of reality that may or may not be the case. It is a philosophical theory of metaphysical reality. But I believe that it provides a solid foundation upon which God as creator is not only compatible with evolution, but _necessarily_ follows from the nature of God as existence and the essential quality of the universe as matter in space and time. Holding a belief in God and accepting evolution, for me at least, is no longer an uneasy alliance of sorts. It seem as if there is no way for God to have created our reality without it being an evolving, constant pouring out of his being into our being. And the more I thought about it the more clear it was that the very nature of this universe is change, that everything evolves in some way. The very purpose of our lives here is to grow and _evolve_ spiritually as individuals and as a species. Everything is on the path of becoming perfected at the end of time when God's creative act has been complete. God's act of salvation history is an evolution through Abraham and the patriarchs through Jesus and up to this day and into the future. And since God is so intimately involved in the unfolding of the natural world it becomes very easy to mistake the causal relations therein. One can see that evolution and even the initial emergence of life on earth for evolution to work on will necessarily appear as purely 'natural' events because they are! There is nothing wrong with that, it takes faith to see God's part in this whole drama and it must be this way because as I said before, if we could see God and prove that he is then our free will becomes almost if not totally meaningless.


----------



## natmoon (Feb 23, 2009)

Lmfao.
Your a total nut job and a fool.
You didnt write that at all.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

Basically what you just said, in a nutshell, is that you wanted to believe something, so you did.Like I said,we'll agree to disagree.And this isn't a question of me not leaving something alone, it's me responding to posts after not logging on yesterday.Sorry it doesn't mesh with your schedule.
*(God does not exist... God is existence*.And this is from the book god in your body.)Where did you copy and paste the rest from?


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

Didn't even change the fucking font.


natmoon said:


> Lmfao.
> Your a total nut job and a fool.
> You didnt write that at all.


----------



## natmoon (Feb 23, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Basically what you just said, in a nutshell, is that you wanted to believe something, so you did.Like I said,we'll agree to disagree.And this isn't a question of me not leaving something alone, it's me responding to posts after not logging on yesterday.Sorry it doesn't mesh with your schedule.
> *(God does not exist... God is existence*.And this is from the book god in your body.)Where did you copy and paste the rest from?


He stole every single word from
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/evolution-vs-creationism/48718-reconciling-faith-god-acceptance-science.html
I just pmed the original poster on the religous forum in case he claims that he is that person,lol


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

Found it.http://www.aboutcatholics.com/community/viewtopic.php?id=1268
Nice plagiarism.


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

natmoon said:


> Lmfao.
> Your a total nut job and a fool.
> You didnt write that at all.


 
I'm gonna keep ignoring you. I'd like to say that everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and beliefs on religion, life, death, evolution, creation... but I find it tedious to carry on a conversation on such a matter with someone of such low maturity.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

Damn, you beat me.


natmoon said:


> He stole every single word from
> http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/evolution-vs-creationism/48718-reconciling-faith-god-acceptance-science.html
> I just pmed the original poster on the religous forum in case he claims that he is that person,lol


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

We find it tedious to carry on a conversation with a psuedo intellectual.You're busted.Buh bye now.


Tronica said:


> I'm gonna keep ignoring you. I'd like to say that everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and beliefs on religion, life, death, evolution, creation... but I find it tedious to carry on a conversation on such a matter with someone of such low maturity.


----------



## natmoon (Feb 23, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Damn, you beat me.


Yeah lol hes obviously just a dumb kid that doesnt realise that we are of a fairly high intellect


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

I never claimed to be of any great intelligence, but at least I'm smart enough not to plagiarize someone and leave the original font...ROTF


natmoon said:


> Yeah lol hes obviously just a dumb kid that doesnt realise that we are of a fairly high intellect


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

He edited it out!LMAO!!Oh man, somebody get a mod, cuz they can still see that shit even if you delete it.


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> He edited it out!LMAO!!Oh man, somebody get a mod, cuz they can still see that shit even if you delete it.


 
uuhh all i edited was the finished part. all i did was copy paste something and hit reply to early

you still have a real comeback to come up with


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

Bullshit.You got served, and now you're trying to cover.I came up with a comeback, but since the actual author of that post isn't here, he can't respond.


Tronica said:


> uuhh all i edited was the finished part. all i did was copy paste something and hit reply to early
> 
> you still have a real comeback to come up with


----------



## natmoon (Feb 23, 2009)

Tronica said:


> I have thought about this more than any of you actually think i have and i am so much better than you all so i stole this from another site and trhen tried to pass it off as my own writings.
> I then though that i could remove it and edit and write some other crap here and that the people on this site were really dumb and i was so clever.
> God told me to do it
> 
> ...


This guy is a total liar and a fool he stole this work and then attempted to delete it to make it look like he never even wrote it


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

You wrote, claim what you want.Then you went back and put it(the post) back in.We can see that you edited your post.


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

remember the monk i was talking about in like page 5?

rofl, this is the original poster of that copy/paste

and that shit was discussed between me and him at like 1:30 am, slightly drunk, about 5 months before he went to the monastery.

i got served on what?

im still waiting for an answer here, and that was not copied from that forum either. i didn't even know he had it on there also. it came from a blog


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## natmoon (Feb 23, 2009)

Tronica said:


> uuhh all i edited was the finished part. all i did was copy paste something and hit reply to early
> 
> you still have a real comeback to come up with


Actually you claimed to have written it yourself and then removed it and then edited to say that it was an excerpt.
Your a total liar and a fool.
We should get you banned


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

Right.You tried to pass it off as your own.You gave no source or credit.You're full of crap.My answer is, you're full of crap.You are a psuedo intellectual who tries to act superior and well informed when in reality, you're probably a 16 year old kid on his mama's computer.


Tronica said:


> remember the monk i was talking about in like page 5?
> 
> rofl, this is the original poster of that copy/paste
> 
> ...


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

natmoon said:


> Actually you claimed to have written it yourself and then removed it and then edited to say that it was an excerpt.
> Your a total liar and a fool.
> We should get you banned


 
rofl i copy pasted it and hit reply and then edited it

THIS COPY WAS FROM A BLOG

not the forum you copied it from. 

are you going to keep insisting i plagurized something or are you going to shoot this down with another new religion.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

No shit, man.The mods can see any edits or deletes you do, no matter what.


natmoon said:


> Actually you claimed to have written it yourself and then removed it and then edited to say that it was an excerpt.
> Your a total liar and a fool.
> We should get you banned


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

You didn't edit it until we called you on it.The poster on that site says it's from another writer..so tell us which blog.Give us the link, if you please.We don't need a new religion to shoot you down.


Tronica said:


> rofl i copy pasted it and hit reply and then edited it
> 
> THIS COPY WAS FROM A BLOG
> 
> ...


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## natmoon (Feb 23, 2009)

Its obviously just a stupid kid stoney lets just ignore him.


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

Do it, pls get me banned for plagurizing Gil's work. 

You guys are pathetic. 

I take 20 second to edit something and you guys go off the bit about it being plagurized.

The original copy/paste came from a myspace blog. I hit reply and was editing it, went to take a crap and came back and saw all this cry baby stuff. I was gone for 3 fucking minutes. So I fixed it and I took out the beginning of his blog entry - because this was an ongoing blog and he had been adressing previous blogs in this one. 

You guys are incredible


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

I suppose we should...but turning the thumbscrews is fun.


natmoon said:


> Its obviously just a stupid kid stoney lets just ignore him.


LINK PLEASE!


Tronica said:


> Do it, pls get me banned for plagurizing Gil's work.
> 
> You guys are pathetic.
> 
> ...


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## natmoon (Feb 23, 2009)

Tronica said:


> Do it, pls get me banned for plagurizing Gil's work.
> 
> You guys are pathetic.
> 
> ...


Actually we are wll respected members of this site and people know that we dont lie.
Your a compulsive liar,a kid and a fool,goodbye


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## natmoon (Feb 23, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> I suppose we should...but turning the thumbscrews is fun.
> 
> LINK PLEASE!


The link i provided was the op.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/evolution-vs-creationism/48718-reconciling-faith-god-acceptance-science.html
He posted that 2 years ago


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

im not going to give you the guys myspace but i will give you his pic that is on his myspace.

since you are already bothering him with this shit - im sure he appreciates it since hes a monk at a monastery and hes going to have a bunch of stoners on a po forum msging him.

if u want proof this came elsewhere, sned him this pic, ask if thats him, and ask if that letter was in his myspace blog








bottom line is you guys still dont have anything better than this.
stoney has his "evolution can be explained in 2 sentences with wikipedia" and natmoon has his made up religion.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

Ohh...I thought it was the same link as mine, guess I only glanced, my bad.


natmoon said:


> The link i provided was the op.
> http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/evolution-vs-creationism/48718-reconciling-faith-god-acceptance-science.html
> He posted that 2 years ago


Whatever.You've been served.Plagiarist.BYE!


Tronica said:


> im not going to give you the guys myspace but i will give you his pic that is on his myspace.
> 
> since you are already bothering him with this shit - im sure he appreciates it since hes a monk at a monastery and hes going to have a bunch of stoners on a po forum msging him.
> 
> if u want proof this came elsewhere, sned him this pic, ask if thats him, and ask if that letter was in his myspace blog


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

Tronica said:


> i have argued religion until i was blue in the face, with atheists mostly, because they are almost always pompous and belittle "god" in childish manners.
> 
> now maybe argue is the wrong word for me to use, because i dont argue, i discuss.
> 
> ...


 

yawn guys

this is on page 4


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

Monks drink beer?You're full of it.And why wouldn't you give a link to his Myspace, it's public.Pathetic.


Tronica said:


> im not going to give you the guys myspace but i will give you his pic that is on his myspace.
> 
> since you are already bothering him with this shit - im sure he appreciates it since hes a monk at a monastery and hes going to have a bunch of stoners on a po forum msging him.
> 
> ...




EDIT...I'm editing out pics of the guy,since it's not right his supposed friend put them up without permission.


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

LOL what makes you think a monk doesn't drink beer?

Man you guys are on one.

Same monk on a .50 cal in Kosovo






Same monk at his monastery in Lacey WA.


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Monks drink beer?You're full of it.And why wouldn't you give a link to his Myspace, it's public.Pathetic.


 
His myspace isn't public and hes a monk. For his own privacy that Natmoon has already invaded.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

Uh huh.Anyway, I'm done, got things to do.


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

Exactly. You are done.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey, fuck you, loser.The blog doesn't exist on myspace, period, so don't saunter your stupid ass on here telling me I'M done,shithead.YOU are done.You got caught, now fucking admit it, accept it,and move along.


Tronica said:


> Exactly. You are done.


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

rofl

ok

so one more time, im gonna shut you down and prove you wrong.

and yes 

You Are *Done* after this

the full blog
___________________________________________________________



Sunday, January 28, 2007 




God is existence 


So its been a bit since I last posted and that last blog about comparing existence and God seemed a bit confusing to me. The point that I am trying to make is that existence is everywhere and in all things, even in things or concepts like nothing and nowhere. These also partake in existence. I cannot really describe this all that well and I must meditate on this further but I invite you all to do the same. ask your self is there any place or thing or whatever that existence is not somehow a part of? And do we not say that this is a property of our concept of God? Think about it and tell me what you think.
Some more thoughts on this subject. If it is the case that there is nothing or noplace that is beyond the reach or influence of existence, then existence by its very nature, would be all knowing. The ever-present nature of existence, everywhere in all things, would grant it unique access to everywhere and all things. from this access it could derive a total knowledge of all thing and this would transend space and time as well. Of course this would only follow if existence somehow had some kind of knowing capacity. It seems clear that the nature of existence would allow for this capacity in its ever-presentness, but proving that this capacity was fulfilled by existence having an intellect would be difficult and I am unsure of how to proccede on that point. Perhaps it is only something that can be revealed. Existence would have to stand up and say 'I am not a cold random force I am God and I know you and all things intamatly because I am intamatlly a part of all things'...
Something going on there... Think about it and let me know what you think.

2 Kudos1 Kudos0 Kudos





Friday, January 12, 2007 




God Does Not Exist 
In my last blog on this subject I tried to show the diffrence between God existing and God as existence. I believe that this is the proper way to approch the concept of God from a philosophical perspective. Now some thoughts on the similarities between the properties of God and of existence per se.

God is omnipresent so existence must also be omnipresent. In all things that have existence, there existence is. So existence is in all things that exist, be they part of the physical universe of matter from atoms to galaxies, or less physical things like forces, gravity, time, energy etc, or purely spiritual entities to include the possible existence of angels or demons. All things that exists, either potentially or actually (from our percpective) partake in existence in some fashion. Therefore from the stand point of existence all things that for us either potential or actual exist, actully exist. Every thought or imagination that we have exists as something all be it just a mental image. Given this anything that our imagination can concieve of from multiple universes to multiple variations of our own, like that old sci-fi show sliders, partakes in existence. Therefore existemce is some how eternal and everpresent.

More on this later


2 Kudos1 Kudos0 Kudos





Monday, January 08, 2007 




God Does not Exist 
So the little quote I made about God not existing may have raised some eyebrows from those who know me. So I will explain my thoughts here.
By asking whether or not God exists by default the question assumes that God and existence are two seperate things. It assumes that existence is some property outside of, and external to, God; which he either possesses or does not possess. This is not the understanding of the God of Abraham worshiped by billions of Christians, Jews, and Muslims worldwide. The God of Abraham that spoke to Moses in the burning bush said, when asked what his name was, "I am that I am" (or something to this effect). What God was saying here literaly is that who I am and what I am are the same, I exist because I am existence. The greatness and supremecey of God's being requires that there be nothing greater. God is not a supreme being, God does not exist as a being, God IS being, God IS existence. 
All this talk is only a clarification of the true concept of what God is. For Christians, like myself, this understanding of God makes the question, does God exist? meaningless. But for those who still have no faith or do not believe, this clarification does not solve or prove anything new really. It simply moves the debate from questions of God's existence? to questions of the relation between our concepts of existence and of God. Are they the same thing? Does existence share all the qualities and properties of God? How do we go about answering these kinds of questions? I will attempt to move into this arena of thought next time.
God Bless


2 Kudos1 Kudos0 Kudos





Friday, January 05, 2007 




First Blog 
Current mood:




calm 
*Category:* Jobs, Work, Careers 
Ok, so this is my first trip into the world of online/myspace blogging. My profile pic at this time is me sitting behind a .50cal in Kosovo in 2000. I have long since been discharged from the Marines and I am currently involved in the application proccess to become a Benedictine Monk at St. Martin's Abbey in Lacey Wa. This blog thing might be a good place to put out some of my thoughts and experiences as I make this spiritual journey. So enjoy and God bless!


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## natmoon (Feb 23, 2009)

Tronica said:


> His myspace isn't public and hes a monk. For his own privacy that Natmoon has already invaded.


Maybe you should be careful that i dont invade yours


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

Pathetic.Methinks thou doth protest too much.


Tronica said:


> rofl
> 
> ok
> 
> ...


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## shnkrmn (Feb 23, 2009)

Solipsism at its finest; thanks Tronica.



Tronica said:


> losing argument and im done explaining it to you
> 
> if you want to be like the dolphins go ahead.
> 
> ...


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

I think you guys should get back on track because I just put you on a very easy to follow throery of how evolution fits in with Gods plan.

And say this is plagurized all you want. The beginning theories on that write up came from drunken theological discussion between me and my best friend. He just has the time (monks have it in spades) and drive to put more thought into it and put it down on paper. I didn't mean to make it look like I wrote it and you guys got your panties in a wad while I was taking a dump.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

Guess it's not so private if I can click the link without logging into myspace and see it.Gonna pm him riiight now!


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

Go ahead! 

wheee


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

Tronica said:


> Go head! ask him about his best friend Tron!
> 
> If his myspace isn't private I'm his #2 friend
> 
> Hi.


 
I even left him a comment for you!

You're seriously too much!

My best friend, my whole life, is a catholic monk. And I'm going to plagurize him!

We're both going to laugh at how stupid this is, you know that right?


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## shnkrmn (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm still laughing at 'Luthersphere'. What's that? A a 16th century media buzz phrase? LOL. and it's plagiarize not plagurize.



Tronica said:


> I even left him a comment for you!
> 
> Rofl, you're to much!
> 
> ...


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

Uh huh.Fact remains, you were going to take credit for it, and say nothing, because you didn't even edit until we called you on it.


Tronica said:


> I even left him a comment for you!
> 
> You're seriously too much!
> 
> ...


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Uh huh.Fact remains, you were going to take credit for it, and say nothing, because you didn't even edit until we called you on it.


 
umm... you called me out in under a few minutes. i was shitting..... i had hit the reply button, got distracted. went and pooed, came back to your shitstorm of accusations and fixed my post. i dont know why you would think i would post a msg with a carry on beginning and not explain it.

really just give it up, why are you even arguing this? 
the man himself will tell you he knows me better than to ever need to claim his words as my own. if you msged him like you said, he will tell you the same. and i knnow you saw the comment on his page i left. this shit is a joke to me, and will be to him too.

did you see the praise i gave him in the post i quoted from page 4?

GET OVER WHAT YOU THINK HAPPENED BECAUSE IT DIDN'T


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

Learn how to spell plagiarize, Tronica.Firefox has spell check, got firefox?No, we called you on it, you edited your post to say, claim what you want, then came back with it being a friend's words.After you edited your post when we harrassed you on it.Then you tried to say his myspace was private, which was untrue.Obviously, you didn't want anyone to see for a reason.You were going to try to claim it as your own.Shitting, got distracted, these excuses came AFTER you tried to change the subject and get us to respond to what you had posted.DOesn't matter, though, I just think it's best to be real.Whatever.


Tronica said:


> umm... you called me out in under a few minutes. i was shitting..... i had hit the reply button, got distracted. went and pooed, came back to your shitstorm of accusations and fixed my post. i dont know why you would think i would post a msg with a carry on beginning and not explain it.
> 
> really just give it up, why are you even arguing this?
> the man himself will tell you he knows me better than to ever need to plagurize him
> ...


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

actually i had no idea his myspace was public

how would i? i only view it while on my own mysapce and i assumed it was

and no i dont use firefox. i dont need a crutch to spellcheck, honestly thats not a word i have ever had to use so i misspelled it. is this what you've been reduced to? insulting my spelling and choice of internet browser?

i prove you wrong after this foolish statement - "monks dont drink beer!!" - lol
and then again "it doesn't exist on myspace!" - and i show it to you
and some more here "thats the whole blog!!!" - i post the rest.


but yet you persist anyways, you say you messaged him, so wait for him to tell you better.

i think you're still clutching now because you run 1100 post per month here and you care way to much about your image?

for shits and giggles

heres a monk drinking beers 
and a monk discussing religion while drinking beers


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## newgrower0789 (Feb 23, 2009)

retards...sorry but if you believe obama is antichrist, your f*ck*ing retarded.


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

i got class in a few hours, so im gonna catch a nap

but before i leave, im wanna be totally immature first and let you know, stoney, that you've been body slammed here.

proven wrong time and time again while dodging the entire argument brought forward

all you had to say was "lol plAGURIZEd! monks dont drink beer!

1100 post a month and still not winning. too bad

thanks for the rep to whoever gave it to me. and yes i know its the internet, i sometimes make the mistake of getting sucked in when all i see is atheist opinions and noone having J's back. most of the time, i ignore it, but unfortunately, not this time.


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## NGT (Feb 23, 2009)

if god exists then who created god?the story about mary being a virgin is false considering jesus had atleast 4 brothers and 2 sisters,but the catholic faith chooses to ignore this,
also christianity was not started by jesus,because he just like his family were jews!christianity was started by mary magdalene,and she also was the only person who apparently saw 
jesus after his death,so noone really knows if he came back from death.....is there a afterlife?probably..is there a god and devil?probably not!you dont have to believe in god to be a good person,and believing in god doesnt automatically make you a good person!so whether you believe or not shoudnt really matter.


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

NGT said:


> if god exists then who created god?the story about mary being a virgin is false considering jesus had atleast 4 brothers and 2 sisters,but the catholic faith chooses to ignore this,
> also christianity was not started by jesus,because he just like his family were jews!christianity was started by mary magdalene,and she also was the only person who apparently saw
> jesus after his death,so noone really knows if he came back from death.....is there a afterlife?probably..is there a god and devil?probably not!you dont have to believe in god to be a good person,and believing in god doesnt automatically make you a good person!so whether you believe or not shoudnt really matter.


 
believe this.

i don't clutch to catholicism as a reason to judge others.

i use it as a reason to better myself.

religion is a great moral base for some, me included. i try and be like Jesus, because jesus was the man, Jesus had it right, he was perfect. And he was sent here by God to help us out. Jesus, by being our role model, gave us the power to save ourselves. we now have an example to live by, and we can choose to, or not to. i dont think individual religion has much to do with it. Jesus is inside of everyone whether they know who he is or not. because Jesus isn't catholicism or buddhism, Jesus is the "right thing" no matter where you come from or what you call him.


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## aknight3 (Feb 23, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> ppl who think obama is the anti christ are retarded, wait scratch that... if you think there _even_ is an antichrist, you are retarded


 


agreed,nuff said


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## natmoon (Feb 23, 2009)

Everyone is failing to notice that the myspace rip blog of your supposed wannabe monk "friend",lmfao,is dated after the genuine original poster posted it on the real catholic forum.
The internets dating system doesn't lie only you do.

The guy emailed me back and has categorically stated that he is not your friend and does not know you and has no myspace blog.
He does not drink or smoke and states that he is going to seek legal advice for deformation of character and for associating him with illegal substances.
The real catholic guy is damn furious and i am glad that i used my fake email address to ask him.
Bwhahahahaha


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## fdd2blk (Feb 23, 2009)

so you post HELLA pics of someone without their permission so you can prove you are god and now you want me to fix it for you?
i like how you blur your face to protect yourself but it's "down with the ship" for your monk friend. very nice.


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## kronicsmurf (Feb 23, 2009)

if there was such a thing as the anti christ he would be it. i fail to see what is so great about him? people flock to him like he's the friggin messiah sent to save us and i don't get it. to me he's a smug self satisfied arogant asshole who is only going to make things worse. that enough of an opinion for ya?


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 23, 2009)

aknight3 said:


> agreed,nuff said


 back to square one lol thanks


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## Sunnysideup (Feb 23, 2009)

Even if this monk is a friend of yours, he is going to be pissed you are putting his blogs up here and his FACE! What a good friend you must be, huh?
Oh, I was logged on this morning when you posted your monk friends blog and tried to portray it as yours...I read the whole thing and then I thought to myself 'tronica did not write this....' You did not edit it in a timely manner as you say. You edited because you got called out!!


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

Uhhh..so you post pics of him, with clickable links to his myspace?He's a military man.You just potentially ruined his career.Nice.Good friend you are.I'll go ahead and remove his pic from your quote.


Tronica said:


> actually i had no idea his myspace was public
> 
> how would i? i only view it while on my own mysapce and i assumed it was
> 
> ...


Nah, I didn't get body slammed.....Cuz...your friend's is copy and pasted as well,the font is different from any other post.He hasn't messaged me back, but I DO see that the resourceful natmoon has proven the true source.Simple fact is, that argument wasn't YOUR argument, your argument has been all over the place,nonsensically organized, badly spelled, and then you have the nerve to be condescending,like you're some great intellect.I've won,like that matters.I won a long time ago, when you opened your big dumb mouth.


Tronica said:


> i got class in a few hours, so im gonna catch a nap
> 
> but before i leave, im wanna be totally immature first and let you know, stoney, that you've been body slammed here.
> 
> ...


Exactly.


fdd2blk said:


> so you post HELLA pics of someone without their permission so you can prove you are god and now you want me to fix it for you?
> i like how you blur your face to protect yourself but it's "down with the ship" for your monk friend. very nice.


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## Sunrise (Feb 23, 2009)

Our first black president in history an Anti Christ? No way!


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 23, 2009)

Sunrise said:


> Our first black president in history an Anti Christ? No way!


 yes we have established this already lol jk


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Uhhh..so you post pics of him, with clickable links to his myspace?He's a military man.You just potentially ruined his career.Nice.Good friend you are.I'll go ahead and remove his pic from your quote.
> 
> Nah, I didn't get body slammed.....Cuz...your friend's is copy and pasted as well,the font is different from any other post.He hasn't messaged me back, but I DO see that the resourceful natmoon has proven the true source.Simple fact is, that argument wasn't YOUR argument, your argument has been all over the place,nonsensically organized, badly spelled, and then you have the nerve to be condescending,like you're some great intellect.I've won,like that matters.I won a long time ago, when you opened your big dumb mouth.
> 
> Exactly.


badly spelled? 1 word? LOL
and from the guy who told me he uses a spell checker . 

and what the fuck are you talking about Military Man?

you are fucking ridiculous

he is a monk... how is he in the military? 
thats right, he is in kosovo and in Lacey WA at the same time. this man is so incredible that he fights for our country while praying for us all in his monastery half way around the globe, at the same time!

and how is this RUINING anything for him?

i put pics of him up so you can identify the person who wrote the blog

my face is covered because i have a fukcing journal here about growing weed, legal as it may be i still dont need my face associated with my grow.

do you think this will affect him at all?
tell me how please. i really want to know what you think is gonna happen to the monk who wrote a thesis on evolution and god and had it posted on this forum by a friend. do you think hes like "OMG SOME OTHER PEOPLE ARE READING MY BLOG, AND THEY KNOW I WROTE IT"

get over yourselfs

and fdd, i never asked you for any help on anything, i asked you to remove the clickable links because these guys are the kind of people that would persist on harassing him.

someone already has asked him to confirm what i said, i figured that was enough, you could do the proper thing and help protect his privacy. i never meant to post a clickable link to his rofile. not that it really matters as far it goes. but what he does not need is a bunch of angry aethiest messaging him on myspace about his blog

if thats to much for you to ask then im glad that youre a mod here....



Sunnysideup said:


> Even if this monk is a friend of yours, he is going to be pissed you are putting his blogs up here and his FACE! What a good friend you must be, huh?
> Oh, I was logged on this morning when you posted your monk friends blog and tried to portray it as yours...I read the whole thing and then I thought to myself 'tronica did not write this....' You did not edit it in a timely manner as you say. You edited because you got called out!!


 
Go look at the time stamps and find another band wagon to jump on, the aetheist club has plenty of support here without another delusional twit clucking about his friends trying to support a lost cause.


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## Sunrise (Feb 23, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> yes we have established this already lol jk


Oh, okay. Just making sure. 

*


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 23, 2009)

ahah this thread is done....no more arguing lmao


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> ahah this thread is done....no more arguing lmao


stoney wil be back

someone with 1100 post a month doesn't really have ANYTHING better to do.

he will not however, continue the real argumnet. instead hell talk about how I plagurized my best friend by posting his blog on here. becasue thats about all he can do.

wikipedia has failed him.


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## Zig Zag Zane (Feb 23, 2009)

this whole thing has become too heated haha come todays a great day, weed in cali might be legalized!


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## shnkrmn (Feb 23, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> this whole thing has become too heated haha come todays a great day, weed in cali might be legalized!


'Heated'. Ha. Wars have been fought over this crap.


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> this whole thing has become too heated haha come todays a great day, weed in cali might be legalized!


 
whats going on in cali with legalization?

havnt' heard anything. ill google it tho.

im about to hit up the clinic. gonna donate some new cuttings and see if i cant score a few nugs in the process.


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

Zig Zag Zane said:


> this whole thing has become too heated haha come todays a great day, weed in cali might be legalized!


 
SAN FRANCISCOA state legislator is reviving the debate about legalizing marijuana as a way of raising money for cash-strapped state and local governments. 

Assemblyman Tom Ammiano, a San Francisco Democrat, introduced a bill Monday that if approved by the California Legislature would put pot on the same legal footing as alcohol. Adults over the age of 21 would be allowed to buy it, and driving under the influence of marijuana would be prohibited. 
Under Ammiano's proposal, which has been endorsed by some law enforcement officials, pot would be taxed at a rate of $50 per ounce and bring an estimated $1 billion into state coffers. In 1996, California became the first state to legalize medical marijuana

Oh wow, congrats to the people in Cali. Maybe it's finally time for a move.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

NO, I suggested firefox for YOU, my friend.And I deleted his pics in my posts, thanks.I never harrassed him, I have no reason to.


Tronica said:


> badly spelled? 1 word? LOL
> and from the guy who told me he uses a spell checker .
> 
> and what the fuck are you talking about Military Man?
> ...


Yup.If you've noticed, most folks use this forum as a means to chat, so my post count isn't all that unusual.I've said my opinion on your argument, and that is, it doesn't hold water.You're very proud of being Catholic, saying it's better to be that than some religion with less members, basically, which means you have a sheep mentality.YOU never addressed the fact that your church's corruption extends all the way up to the pope, who knowingly protected child molesters.The wikipedia link I posted was the correct definition, why not use it?But you'll continue to run your mouth about wikipedia,even though you yourself used youtube.Whatever, kid.


Tronica said:


> stoney wil be back
> 
> someone with 1100 post a month doesn't really have ANYTHING better to do.
> 
> ...


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> NO, I suggested firefox for YOU, my friend.And I deleted his pics in my posts, thanks.I never harrassed him, I have no reason to.
> 
> Yup.If you've noticed, most folks use this forum as a means to chat, so my post count isn't all that unusual.I've said my opinion on your argument, and that is, it doesn't hold water.You're very proud of being Catholic, saying it's better to be that than some religion with less members, basically, which means you have a sheep mentality.YOU never addressed the fact that your church's corruption extends all the way up to the pope, who knowingly protected child molesters.The wikipedia link I posted was the correct definition, why not use it?But you'll continue to run your mouth about wikipedia,even though you yourself used youtube.Whatever, kid.


all i said is i'd rather be catholic, with a large following of other catholics, than be 1 man who believes in his own made up religion (natmoon)

and I told you Stoney would be back. still avoiding a thought out response tho. personal attacks are much easier.


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

natmoon said:


> Everyone is failing to notice that the myspace rip blog of your supposed wannabe monk "friend",lmfao,is dated after the genuine original poster posted it on the real catholic forum.
> The internets dating system doesn't lie only you do.
> 
> The guy emailed me back and has categorically stated that he is not your friend and does not know you and has no myspace blog.
> ...


This is the largest lie I've ever seen.
The S/N that wrote this on the religous forums is "runlikethewind" 

the same s/n that my friend used to use on a game called Planetside that we used to play together.

so unless you msged the wrong person, you are lying through your fuckin teeth. 
runlikethewind - aka cpl wilson aka brother nicalaus, wrote this blog and before he choose to devote his life to god as a monk, he was my best friend for 13 years.

take your bulllshit elsewhere, lie to someone who will buy your bullshit. because i dont.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 23, 2009)

Tronica said:


> all i said is i'd rather be catholic, with a large following of other catholics, than be 1 man who believes in his own made up religion (natmoon)
> 
> and I told you Stoney would be back. still avoiding a thought out response tho. personal attacks are much easier.


Nothing personal in Stoney's comment; unless you are the pope, or the entire holy mother catholic, apostolic and universal church triumphant blah blah blah. How is that not a made-up religion?


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

No, I answered you very directly.YOUR.RELIGION.PROTECTS.BABY.RAPERS.And you, in glorifying it,are giving consent to those same baby rapers to continue as men of the cloth.
Your post, which was indeed plagiarized,was really in a nutshell "I'll believe as I want, facts be damned." Sorry, I disagree with the original writer, as well.But you continue to try to use it as YOUR argument, when in actuality, you cannot seem to come up with any more original arguments OF YOUR OWN.Once again, I'm a woman, so I guess that just goes to show how well you actually retain information.If you have any more responses, I'll be back later, so don't think I'm searching for the right words, I'm just doing housework.Or you could take this to pm's and we could stop hijacking the thread.The choice is yours.


Tronica said:


> told you he'd be back still avoiding a thought out response. personal attacks are much easier.


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 23, 2009)

SO then you post his name.What kind of a friend are you, seriously?


Tronica said:


> This is the largest lie I've ever seen.
> The S/N that wrote this on the religous forums is "runlikethewind"
> 
> the same s/n that my friend used to use on a game called Planetside that we used to play together.
> ...


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> No, I answered you very directly.YOUR.RELIGION.PROTECTS.BABY.RAPERS.And you, in glorifying it,are giving consent to those same baby rapers to continue as men of the cloth.
> Your post, which was indeed plagiarized,was really in a nutshell "I'll believe as I want, facts be damned." Sorry, I disagree with the original writer, as well.But you continue to try to use it as YOUR argument, when in actuality, you cannot seem to come up with any more original arguments OF YOUR OWN.Once again, I'm a woman, so I guess that just goes to show how well you actually retain information.If you have any more responses, I'll be back later, so don't think I'm searching for the right words, I'm just doing housework.Or you could take this to pm's and we could stop hijacking the thread.The choice is yours.


 
Hijacking this thread?

We are this thread.

As far as it goes. you keep trying to tell me this is not my argument. When you asked me that line of questions "where did god come from, who created him?" and the others that i forget at the moment. i said i would get back to you later. that thesis that my friend wrote was brewed up in our own discussion one night, and like i said, hes a monk with a strong background in theology and philosophy, so he took the time to put it onto paper, and thats what you have read.

You also keep trying to call me Catholic and label me as close minded and evil therefore. When I'm anything but close minded on this subject. quoting myself here




Tronica said:


> i don't clutch to catholicism as a reason to judge others.
> 
> i use it as a reason to better myself.
> 
> religion is a great moral base for some, me included. i try and be like Jesus, because jesus was the man, Jesus had it right, he was perfect. And he was sent here by God to help us out. Jesus, by being our role model, gave us the power to save ourselves. we now have an example to live by, and we can choose to, or not to. i dont think individual religion has much to do with it. Jesus is inside of everyone whether they know who he is or not. because Jesus isn't catholicism or buddhism, Jesus is the "right thing" no matter where you come from or what you call him.


 


basically you're an atheist, who hates catholicism (you dont miss a chance to call the pope a "baby raper") and i dont know why i got sucked into an argument with you in the first place. i only chimed in because i made the mistake of clicking this link in the "new posts" section and saw a bunch of aethist shooting down the existence of God. so i decided to stick up for Jesus a little, because it is the right thing to do, even if it is the hard thing to do (i think i was 5vs1 - aethist vs religous in the thread)


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> SO then you post his name.What kind of a friend are you, seriously?


 
dude, you dont get it

WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO HIDE FROM YOU? 

NOTHING.

you can know his identity. he has done nothing wrong. he doesn't post here, he doesn't grow marijuana. he wrote a thesis on evolution and gods relation to it. thats it.

what you choose to do with that is up to you. 

if you want to debate with him, im sure he would be glad to as he enjoys it, but you would need to leave your "catholics rape babies" shit at the door because unlike me, i dont think he would bother with your disrespectful bullshit


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## natmoon (Feb 23, 2009)

This kid still raving on,lol.
Thats the funniest thing about liars,they just cant stop,even when they are caught


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

natmoon said:


> This kid still raving on,lol.
> Thats the funniest thing about liars,they just cant stop,even when they are caught


 
Actually, you are caught.

I ousted you on the last page.

You never messaged my friend.

That whole line of shit about "i msged the guy and he is raving mad and is seeking legal action" was a lie and you know it. 

It doens't help that your cause when you stoop to this level and I would hope that you were better than that.


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## natmoon (Feb 23, 2009)

Tronica said:


> Actually, you are caught.
> 
> I ousted you on the last page.
> 
> ...


Everyone else here knew i was making shit up to do your head in,lmfao.
Why the fuck would i email an American catholic,lol.
Why would i care,i am English,we brits,for the most part,dont really care to much about religion here,at least not in the way you do anyway.
Me and stoney saw your original bullshit post and what you really said before you went to "poo",lmfao.

What really does sadden me "frank" is that you think i and others here are this stupid and that you are obviously in need of help.
I hope that your weed grows quickly and fat as you really need some.
I also hope that it doesnt make you even more psycotic and that you blame it on the weed when you know you already need help.
This is my last response to you personally in this thread


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## Tronica (Feb 23, 2009)

natmoon said:


> Everyone else here knew i was making shit up to do your head in,lmfao.
> Why the fuck would i email an American catholic,lol.
> Why would i care,i am English,we brits,for the most part,dont really care to much about religion here,at least not in the way you do anyway.
> Me and stoney saw your original bullshit post and what you really said before you went to "poo",lmfao.
> ...


 
Hey at least you came clean. Everything you said was all bullshit. And you tryed to call me the liar the entire time. Smearing my name, while in fact is was you who was being dirty.

I'm glad your done here, your actions are not appreciated regardless of your suppossed intent.


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## natmoon (Feb 23, 2009)

Tronica said:


> Hey at least you came clean. Everything you said was all bullshit. And you tryed to call me the liar the entire time. Smearing my name, while in fact is was you who was being dirty.
> 
> I'm glad your done here, your actions are not appreciated regardless of your suppossed intent.


Your insane dude,lol


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## fdd2blk (Feb 23, 2009)

natmoon said:


> Everyone else here knew i was making shit up to do your head in,lmfao.
> Why the fuck would i email an American catholic,lol.
> Why would i care,i am English,we brits,for the most part,dont really care to much about religion here,at least not in the way you do anyway.
> Me and stoney saw your original bullshit post and what you really said before you went to "poo",lmfao.
> ...



so you lied?



why was i drug into it all? you people suck. 



closed


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