# Hydro Innovations Ice Box 8" for 4000w Cooled by Swimming Pool?



## rbahadosingh (Jan 17, 2010)

Im currently setting up a new grow room that is going to have 4 1000w lights. i was taking a look at the ice box water chillers and was wondering if i could succesfully use my swimming pool water to run through the ice boxes thus reducing the need for a water chiller and save energy. The swimming pool water is always cold. and i would be running the lights at night when the water in the pool is colder... also would the chlorine and other chemicals in the pool effect the ice boxes? anyone ever try this???


----------



## rbahadosingh (Jan 17, 2010)

no opinions????


----------



## newb.alance (Jan 17, 2010)

i would wager (though, not much money  that it would be fine. just as there are metal fittings in the pool pump, the ice box water chiller likely wouldn't corrode too badly.

what ought to be interesting is if you are able to heat your pool with the excess heat from your grow lights!


----------



## tea tree (Jan 17, 2010)

frickin lucky dude!


----------



## rbahadosingh (Jan 17, 2010)

bump.................


----------



## GPD.831 (Jan 17, 2010)

Welll... swimming pools are extremely chlorinated. I would guess that it is toxic to plants to have that much chlorine, but I don't exactly know much about the icebox system, what it is, or how it works. As long as the pool water doesn't touch the roots you'd be fine.


----------



## FileError404 (Jan 17, 2010)

That's probably a question for the manufacturer. I'd just send then an email and ask.


----------



## CookieMaster (Jan 17, 2010)

It seems like it would be fine. I was talking to a guy who had it hooked up at his store. It's pretty impressive. I asked him about a pool and he said it would work. He had one of those laser therm readers where you point and it reads the temp, and the temp was fine coming out of the other end. I say go for it. Nothing like a little trial and error right?


----------



## aubud (Jan 17, 2010)

I think it would work...
Your talking about just using pool water to cool the lights right? i think it would work perfectly, i was going to use a constant flow of water from my appt building to coll one but i decided against it


----------



## nemon (Jan 17, 2010)

It will work fine.

The chiller radiator is copper.Just don't mix Copper with Aluminum and you will not get any corrosion.


----------



## captain insaneo (Jan 17, 2010)

Shit yes i used to cool a water cooled computer with one(a pool that is)

If you are concerned about corrosion you could build a closed loop system by getting an old car radiator and submerging that in the pool (near one of the jets for circulation) and then running a hose to the "ice box"

as you can tell I am a bit of a macguyver type myself and will post the question of why dont you diy one yourself. All you need is a heater core from say a 1989 ford f150 (my favorite for water cooled computer radiators) they were running about $16 from checkers a couple years back (my freinds liked ones from an old chevettes). then you just need to get a small plastic box that fits the heater core and your ducting? 

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A2648&_nkw=heater+core&_dmpt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_sop=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

or http://www.google.com/products?q=heater+core&hl=en&scoring=p

heater cores are awesome because they have very little resistance on both the water and the air.

What I dont quite understand is how is this supposed to work it seems like you would need like 2-6 of these to suck the heat out of the air from even just a couple of lights. let me know if it works!


----------



## rbahadosingh (Jan 17, 2010)

captain insaneo said:


> Shit yes i used to cool a water cooled computer with one(a pool that is)
> 
> If you are concerned about corrosion you could build a closed loop system by getting an old car radiator and submerging that in the pool (near one of the jets for circulation) and then running a hose to the "ice box"
> 
> ...


well i would be using 4 of them. 1 for each light. i was wondering if the pool water would stay cool or would the temp raise significantly. obviously i need the water to stay cool.


----------



## captain insaneo (Jan 17, 2010)

well it is a question of mass i am guessing that your pool is larger than 10,000 gallons which is 80,000 pints
a BTU is the amount of energy it takes to raise the temperature of 1 pint of water 1 degree F. 
80,000 BTU is 23,446 watts (now you know why it costs so fucking much to heat a pool)
Which would mean that if your pool was in a vacuum it would only raise 1 degree every 6hours
but your pool is not in a vacuum and I am sure evaporation will more than cool that back down, as the sun doses out 10k watts per square foot and your pool isn't swinging greatly in temps between the day and night. 

Also I wouldn't worry about corrosion.


----------



## redi jedi (Jan 17, 2010)

I think this is a great idea. Wouldn't be hard to do either. Pumping the pool water directly through the iceboxes would be fine...it already goes through a similar heat exchanger, if your pool has a heater? 

If you used two iceboxes cooling two lights each, as long as you pumped it through fast enough, the water being returned to the pool shouldn't be much warmer. 

My question though, could you not cool four lights adequately with two 6" fans? Much cheaper and easier to set up? I could see needing that kind of cooling capability if you were running 8-10kw of lights. I like the idea I just think its a tad overkill for 4kw.....


----------



## rbahadosingh (Jan 18, 2010)

captain insaneo said:


> well it is a question of mass i am guessing that your pool is larger than 10,000 gallons which is 80,000 pints
> a BTU is the amount of energy it takes to raise the temperature of 1 pint of water 1 degree F.
> 80,000 BTU is 23,446 watts (now you know why it costs so fucking much to heat a pool)
> Which would mean that if your pool was in a vacuum it would only raise 1 degree every 6hours
> ...


the pool is 32,000 gallons. so i guess it would work ok.



redi jedi said:


> I think this is a great idea. Wouldn't be hard to do either. Pumping the pool water directly through the iceboxes would be fine...it already goes through a similar heat exchanger, if your pool has a heater?
> 
> If you used two iceboxes cooling two lights each, as long as you pumped it through fast enough, the water being returned to the pool shouldn't be much warmer.
> 
> My question though, could you not cool four lights adequately with two 6" fans? Much cheaper and easier to set up? I could see needing that kind of cooling capability if you were running 8-10kw of lights. I like the idea I just think its a tad overkill for 4kw.....


yes i probably could cool them with 2 8" fans but i want the room completely sealed. no intake or exhaust.


----------



## captain insaneo (Jan 18, 2010)

have you watched the video on their website they say the optimum flow is 250 cfm.

http://www.hydroinnovations.com/product3.htm

also I will introduce a new term related to heating a Therm=100,000 btu it would take you 2.5 therm to raise your pool 1 degree or the amount of energy your lights put out in about 2 days strait! you could also tap into the pool pump line so that it pushes the water in your system. 

If not you should make the intake for your system at the lowest point in your pool.


----------



## rbahadosingh (Jan 18, 2010)

captain insaneo said:


> have you watched the video on their website they say the optimum flow is 250 cfm.
> 
> http://www.hydroinnovations.com/product3.htm
> 
> ...


yeah i watched the video. i was going to use an a/c originally because the water chillers cost so much. but if i could run a system like that using my pool water to run through the ice boxes and keep my temps under control it would work out great. i wouldnt need an a/c or water chiller. i just want my temps to stay betwen 75 and 85. i will just buy a 1/4 hp water pump to push the water through the system. my pool is in the backyard so the water will have to run through a good 50-75ft of hose.


----------



## captain insaneo (Jan 18, 2010)

Hell you could also get a car radiator (or 2) and hook that up to the system and suck the heat out of the room. I do like the manifold system they have in that video. I also have some issues with that vid like the infrared thermometer is measuring the iceboxes temp not the air temp. but somewhere he mentions that the rooms temp should be with in 10 degrees of the water temp.
Another insane idea is
http://www.geoexchange.org/
use the power of the earth, hell if you wanted tie that into your whole house system and have them run you some access lines to/near the grow area. 
I would totally do this if building a house. the deep well method gives you a limitless supply of 56 degree water.

My folks live in the desert south west and they had a solar pool heater installed. The salesman said that in phoenix, people run them at night to radiate heat off the pool to bring their temps down. You could use one of those to cool your pool at night and get your 32,000 gallon reservoir slightly cooler. 

hell speaking of panels put one of these in your grow room and circulate the pool water through it i am sure it will suck the heat out and put it into the pool
http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item=329828&pid=_Froogle&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=69120


----------



## redi jedi (Jan 19, 2010)

rbahadosingh said:


> yes i probably could cool them with 2 8" fans but i want the room completely sealed. no intake or exhaust.


You still need to push air through these things? Your still going to need a 1000cfm worth of fan(s) in addition to 2 or 4 iceboxes and another pool pump unless you can tie into the existing one.

My point is...they recommend 250cfm per reflector and one icebox per reflector...250 cfm is enough to cool one reflector burning a 1kw without an icebox? How frikin hot does it get where you live?

Never mind...I just figured it out...you can just circulate the air in the room through the hood and back into the room...duh...I understand what your trying to accomplish now.


----------



## rbahadosingh (Jan 21, 2010)

just checked the water temp in my pool and its 45 degress..... i cant wait to get the ice boxes and water pump and see how good they work.....


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 31, 2010)

rbahadosingh said:


> the pool is 32,000 gallons. so i guess it would work ok.


It'll be fine, 4 ulbs do NOT have enough heat to heat up that MASSIVE pool of yours. You sure it's 32k gallons? You'll get plenty of condensation in the winter since the water will be much colder, so tap the bottom of the IB's to drain them.

Also, scratch the pump... use your existing pool pump and get a three way valve plumbed in. You should adjust the pressure in order to send a part of the out put of the pump to the IB's.

I would tap this on your return line to the pool (right after your filter)

Good luck, post updates!

P.S. remember you want your water 10 degrees colder then your room temp. In the summer, if the pool gets hot, it's not the lights. You may still need A/C but the requirements would be a lot less then trying to cool the room, plus the lights with with just air.


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 3, 2010)

Well lookie what thread I found while doing some research on chillers 

Fancy seeing you here, Rbaha 

Anyways, good thread, with some good info...........if you're interested, I started another thread that's got some decent info, including a pretty detailed email exchange with a rep from Hydro Innovations.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/298576-chiller-lieu-air-conditioning.html


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 3, 2010)

rbahadosingh said:


> just checked the water temp in my pool and its 45 degress..... i cant wait to get the ice boxes and water pump and see how good they work.....


45  Shhhiiiiiiiiiit. That's money 

I will be shopping for a new place to live in a few months ... a pool just got added to the criteria.


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 3, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> 45  Shhhiiiiiiiiiit. That's money
> 
> I will be shopping for a new place to live in a few months ... a pool just got added to the criteria.


Although needing to heat up your water is a good problem to have, methinks you'll have some serious condensation issues on the tubing running to your lights with that large of a temperature difference between your water temps and the ambient temps in your grow room.

Integra21 is running the mini HydroGen, and he's having some condensation issues, even though his humidity stays at or below 40% - in the FAQ page on HI's website, they say that condensation will be an issue with RH of 50% or more, but that's with temp differences of ~20F between air and water.

But I sure am glad that Rbaha's volunteered to be our guinea pig - truth be told I had my finger sitting over the mouse button ready to click "Commit To Buy" a few hours ago, then backed off.


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 3, 2010)

I won't need to cool the lights. I will just suck fresh air from the attic and exhaust it back outside. It won't smell because it's not contaminated. It's just hot.

If condesation is an issue, I doubt it will be bad. Since I won't have to deal with the light heat, the room itself and the HydroGENs should not be too difficult to cool. Besides, nothing around here gets anywhere near 45 degrees even at night. I live near the beach. If I had a pool, it would be a balmy 55-60 at all times.


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 3, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> I won't need to cool the lights. I will just suck fresh air from the attic and exhaust it back outside. It won't smell because it's not contaminated. It's just hot.
> 
> If condesation is an issue, I doubt it will be bad. Since I won't have to deal with the light heat, the room itself and the HydroGENs should not be too difficult to cool. Besides, nothing around here gets anywhere near 45 degrees even at night. I live near the beach. If I had a pool, it would be a balmy 55-60 at all times.


Lol, I screwed this up by not being clear as to who I was referencing - I quoted you (like a dumbass) because you mentioned the 45F temps the previous post, and that's the point I was trying to make to Rbaha about how HE might have some condensation issues with the large disparity in temps.

My bads for the confusion, but as long as we're here - doesn't your attic get really hot in the summer? I know mine gets to 90F+ by April or May with the sun just beating down on it.


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 3, 2010)

No, my attic stays at about 70. I stuck my head up there last summer when I was contemplating this setup and I was very surprised at how cool it was. I'm assuming that I will have similar conditions at my next spot, even though you know how that can fuk up the best of plans.


----------



## mihjaro (Feb 3, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Integra21 is running the mini HydroGen, and he's having some condensation issues, even though his humidity stays at or below 40% - in the FAQ page on HI's website, they say that condensation will be an issue with RH of 50% or more, but that's with temp differences of ~20F between air and water.


Is the tubing insulated? This should solve that problem. The temperature of the liquid in an A/C line is colder than 45 and I've never had condensation problems with that. I think it's because they are insulated.


----------



## rbahadosingh (Feb 4, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Well lookie what thread I found while doing some research on chillers
> 
> Fancy seeing you here, Rbaha
> 
> ...


glad you found my thread bob. i have been following yours as well. just havent chimed in as yet. i havent been on for a few days but the last time i checked i thought you scrapped the idea of a chiller and was going with the split A/C unit instead?



smokingrubber said:


> 45  Shhhiiiiiiiiiit. That's money
> 
> I will be shopping for a new place to live in a few months ... a pool just got added to the criteria.


yeah i was walking in the backyard stoned as hell when i came up with the idea. lol. seems to me i think better while high....



Bob Smith said:


> Although needing to heat up your water is a good problem to have, methinks you'll have some serious condensation issues on the tubing running to your lights with that large of a temperature difference between your water temps and the ambient temps in your grow room.
> 
> Integra21 is running the mini HydroGen, and he's having some condensation issues, even though his humidity stays at or below 40% - in the FAQ page on HI's website, they say that condensation will be an issue with RH of 50% or more, but that's with temp differences of ~20F between air and water.
> 
> But I sure am glad that Rbaha's volunteered to be our guinea pig - truth be told I had my finger sitting over the mouse button ready to click "Commit To Buy" a few hours ago, then backed off.


the water is 45 right now. but its not always that cold. its going to start to heat up pretty soon as the weather begins to change. the condensation would definately be a problem. i dont water water dripping from the ceiling in my grow room. but i think i can figure something out.


----------



## disposition84 (Feb 4, 2010)

I'm confident you can. I remember seeing another person do the exact same thing with his pool and multiple IB in his room on International Cannagraphic was very professional looking and everything worked very well.

I tried searching for article but can't seem to find it.


----------



## Yg420 (Feb 15, 2010)

hey bro, i kno its my 1st post and u may take my info with a grain of salt, but i have the 1 hp "chill king", 2 8 " "iceboxes", the water cooled dehumidifier and it was the worst $3500+ i have ever spent on a setup! i have 2000k runnin in a 4x8 sunhut and the dam chiller cant even keep the temps below 100f... i have co2 runnin and i like to run my garden @99f but when u spend that much money on an "efficient" setup as HYDRO INNOVATIONS claim then one would expect a lil more than what it has shown me. i have now put my lights on a closed circuit and completely disconnect the water chiller from the loop...im just trying to save u from making the same mistake that i have made and save u some $$$...if u or anyone else have any questions about the setup hit me up!


----------



## ChemisTree (Feb 15, 2010)

I say it would work for cooling if the pool is cold enough (and it's probably big enough to be a huge energy sink).

The only issue is if the chlorine and other chemicals will corrode the pump or lines, and if you need to use a separate filter so you're not sucking leaves and bugs into your pump.

Good luck, it's definitely a tantalizing idea.


----------



## DIRTHAWKER (Feb 15, 2010)

What about a 500 gallon above ground jacuzzi filled with fresh water no clorine.

Will it cool 4 600 watt lights and one 1k watt light and of course cool the hydrogen pro and the room itself? If i remember right during the mid summer heat the temps in the jacuzzi with lid on never went above 65deg...I just checked it right now and its 50deg. The website does say the water needs to be 20 degrees cooler then what you want the room temps to be. Which would put me right at 85..perfect. But will the water heat up throughout the day cycle?

The wheels are turning.


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 16, 2010)

DIRTHAWKER said:


> What about a 500 gallon above ground jacuzzi filled with fresh water no clorine.
> 
> Will it cool 4 600 watt lights and one 1k watt light and of course cool the hydrogen pro and the room itself? If i remember right during the mid summer heat the temps in the jacuzzi with lid on never went above 65deg...I just checked it right now and its 50deg. The website does say the water needs to be 20 degrees cooler then what you want the room temps to be. Which would put me right at 85..perfect. But will the water heat up throughout the day cycle?
> 
> The wheels are turning.


According to others who are using it, the HydroGen puts out HOT water. Not warm water ... HOT! A 500 gallon res would certainly help, but I believe you would still need some supplimental chilling on the jacuzzi. The night air would greatly reduce your costs but it would warm up pretty quick during the day imo.


----------



## DIRTHAWKER (Feb 19, 2010)

THX sounds like maybe a heat exchanger attached to a fan on the outtake would possibly help to keep the water cooler.


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

Dirth, your 4 lights alone will heat up the 500 gallon jacuzzi. The hyrdrogen is a converted water heater.

Your proposed setup would fail in cooling at all. You would turn the IB's into heaters by hour 3 of lights on and plants would be dead by the end of the day.

Sorry, but better now then after you've invested that $


----------



## DIRTHAWKER (Feb 19, 2010)

Yea i already determined that..but i still think i could run the hydrogen pro by itself using the jacuzzi... what do you think?


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 20, 2010)

DIRTHAWKER said:


> Yea i already determined that..but i still think i could run the hydrogen pro by itself using the jacuzzi... what do you think?


 I would drain into a jacuzzi... don't use a reservoir for the Hydrogen unless it's a large pool. You will be disappointed. 

I wouldn't even run a dedicated pump. Plumb it into existing house plumbing and throw the drain where ever you want.


----------



## DIRTHAWKER (Feb 20, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I would drain into a jacuzzi... don't use a reservoir for the Hydrogen unless it's a large pool. You will be disappointed.
> 
> I wouldn't even run a dedicated pump. Plumb it into existing house plumbing and throw the drain where ever you want.


Im not sure i understand what you are saying ?

Another option i have is to mount the hydrogen and a 55 gallon drum outside of the room and duct the co2 in..(1ft) basicly right through a wall. 
Would cooling the reservoir be necessary that way? I could have an exhaust fan mounted in the ceiling in the room where both the generator and the reservoir sit and possibly mount a heat exchanger on the outtake of the exhaust fan on the hot water exit from the generator for extra cooling.


thanks watercooled for the help.


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 20, 2010)

DIRTHAWKER said:


> Im not sure i understand what you are saying ?


He's said DON'T USE A RESERVIOR at all unless its a large pool. The HydroGen's output water is hot enough to shower with.


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 20, 2010)

Watercooled, can you give me a rough idea how much water I would waist if I ran the HydroGen Pro in an enclosed 2 car garage? How many gal per day?


----------



## DIRTHAWKER (Feb 20, 2010)

I think im gonna scrap the whole watercooled idea ...it seems like way too much of a headache.. Im just going to find a nice AC unit and use the greenair cd-6 for co2.

Its worked for me in the past so why change.


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 20, 2010)

DIRTHAWKER said:


> I think im gonna scrap the whole watercooled idea ...it seems like way too much of a headache.. Im just going to find a nice AC unit and use the greenair cd-6 for co2.
> 
> Its worked for me in the past so why change.


hmmm good point. 

The landlord pays the water bill at the spot im building. (we tried to talk him out of it.) Gotta know how much I would be dumping.


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 20, 2010)

DIRTHAWKER said:


> Im not sure i understand what you are saying ?
> 
> Another option i have is to mount the hydrogen and a 55 gallon drum outside of the room and duct the co2 in..(1ft) basicly right through a wall.
> Would cooling the reservoir be necessary that way? I could have an exhaust fan mounted in the ceiling in the room where both the generator and the reservoir sit and possibly mount a heat exchanger on the outtake of the exhaust fan on the hot water exit from the generator for extra cooling.
> ...



If you ran it outside and duct in the C02, that's a different story. Why would you even add the water at that point and not just use a propane burner, or your BBQ for that manner?




smokingrubber said:


> He's said DON'T USE A RESERVIOR at all unless its a large pool. The HydroGen's output water is hot enough to shower with.


 Yup... the hot water heater was replaced with a hydrogenpro in a room I built. It now provides CO2 for the room and hot water for showers. When showering, the Co2 PPM obviously sky rockets.



smokingrubber said:


> Watercooled, can you give me a rough idea how much water I would waist if I ran the HydroGen Pro in an enclosed 2 car garage? How many gal per day?


 Sorry man, I'm not sure right now. I have a pending test for someone in my thread, but have the room defunct right now while I experiment with some well water for the system. 
I don't feel like it's wasting that much.



DIRTHAWKER said:


> I think im gonna scrap the whole watercooled idea ...it seems like way too much of a headache.. Im just going to find a nice AC unit and use the greenair cd-6 for co2.
> 
> Its worked for me in the past so why change.


That'll work, but if you have the option of putting it outside and ducting CO2 into the room, just use a "normal" propane burner.



smokingrubber said:


> hmmm good point.
> 
> The landlord pays the water bill at the spot im building. (we tried to talk him out of it.) Gotta know how much I would be dumping.


That sucks... I'm sure it will vary... you can check out propane water heaters, or portable water heaters for specs to get an idea of usage during on time... actual burn time to keep 1500 ppm... that's gonna take a while for me to post


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 20, 2010)

According to HydroInnovation's charts: http://www.hydroinnovations.com/product2.htm and calculator, I will need approx 4½ cuft an hr. On the drain to waste thats 38 gal/hr. 38gal x 12 hr x 30 days = 13,680 gal a month.

That might have the water-police at my door. And the landlord!

It CLAIMS that I can use a 100 gal reservior and a 1hp chiller. But I would have to have that outside, and that's kind of no good.


----------



## DIRTHAWKER (Feb 20, 2010)

Ive been researching about c02 generators and i cant get an answer... Is there only certain models that are capable of ducting co2? And if so what would you recommend? My room is just about 1500 cubic feet. 

I have a natural gas heater in a closet with the gas line and valve (not being used) ajacent to my flower room. I was thinking if i could find a ng co2 generator that can duct the co2 through the wall and have it plumbed to the ng gas line in the ajacent room, all my problems would be solved. I would never have to fill a tank again and the heat will be a non issue.

any recomendations would be appreciated.


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 20, 2010)

Trust me, you ain't the first person to want that setup. Aside from the HydroGen I haven't seen a generator with a Co2 exhaust port.


----------



## DIRTHAWKER (Feb 20, 2010)

Yea it does sound too good to be true. But if the hydrogen watercooled is the only unit that has a duct port, and needs water to run, and if its housed in a seperate room.. then would the water even need to be cooled.. ?? I imagine the reservoir water would get freakin hot,, but would that matter? maybe like i mentioned before, just add a fan and a heatexchanger to the return of the reservoir to absorb some of the heat.

I appreciate the discussion.. trying to get things worked out before i implement.


----------



## rbahadosingh (Feb 20, 2010)

i love how all of you hijacked my thread! no im j/k. lots of good info. ive been silently following along. ive kinda scrapped my idea for using the pool with the ice boxes. i have talked to a few people and they all say the ice boxes will give you humidity problems. so for right now ive decided to just get a 28000btu AC and use that instead.... but i may change my mind in a day or two.


----------



## DIRTHAWKER (Feb 20, 2010)

DIRTHAWKER said:


> I have a natural gas heater in a closet with the gas line and valve (not being used) ajacent to my flower room. I was thinking if i could find a ng co2 generator that can duct the co2 through the wall and have it plumbed to the ng gas line in the ajacent room, all my problems would be solved. I would never have to fill a tank again and the heat will be a non issue.
> 
> any recomendations would be appreciated.


Yea arbah..i hear ya im pretty much over the watercooling headache



Im thinking '" Isnt my gas heater just a big co2 generator?" Why not just keep the pilot light lit and divert the exhaust into the flower room using powered damper vents and my co2 controller?

heres an article i found

http://ezinearticles.com/?CO2-for-Free&id=48431


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 21, 2010)

DIRTHAWKER said:


> ...
> 
> Im thinking '" Isnt my gas heater just a big co2 generator?" ...




Yiiuuuup. A Hydrogen is nothing more then a gas water heater.


----------



## DIRTHAWKER (Feb 21, 2010)

Yo watercooled..check out my natural gas heater right next to my grow room.

If i could figure out a way to utilize it it would be ideal dont you think?

any ideas?


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 21, 2010)

^^ Yup, that'll work. I have no ideas, but man get that burn gas into your room. I'll be checking your journal within the next couple days.


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 24, 2010)

DIRTHAWKER said:


> Yo watercooled..check out my natural gas heater right next to my grow room.
> 
> If i could figure out a way to utilize it it would be ideal dont you think?
> 
> any ideas?


Look for a thread started by a gentlemen named Tat2ue - he did that exact thing with his heater, and his setup was pretty official.


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 24, 2010)

rbahadosingh said:


> i love how all of you hijacked my thread! no im j/k. lots of good info. ive been silently following along. ive kinda scrapped my idea for using the pool with the ice boxes. i have talked to a few people and they all say the ice boxes will give you humidity problems. so for right now ive decided to just get a 28000btu AC and use that instead.... but i may change my mind in a day or two.


After spending (literally) days and days researching this topic and emailing the Hydro Innovations people, I also said "fuck it".

Just gonna get a 24K mini-split and call it a fucking day - the technology is promising, but it's a little too "experimental" for me and my lack of engineering skills.


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 24, 2010)

I'm pushing forward with the water-cooled tent. I gave up on the HydroGen because I can't cool the reservoir, and I can't waste 13,000+ gallons of city water a month. I'm going to use bottles of Co2.

I will attach an 8" inline fan to the carbon filter. I will suck in hot air at the top, pass it through the water cooler and expell the air back into the bottom of the tent. The TV2 controller will speed up the fan whenever the temps get too high, and the CHHC-1 will turn on the water pump. The lights will have a seperate fan going to the attic. 

It sucks that I have to use bottles, but the tent will be completely sealed, cooled, and Co2ed. I will set up 3 tents exactly the same (two 4x9 and one 4x4). I'm going to be putting the Sentilels to work!

I will have one 100 gal res and a 1hp chiller in the garage. That will cool all 3 tents. A window AC in the garage will handle any extra heat put off by the chiller.


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 24, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> I'm pushing forward with the water-cooled tent. I gave up on the HydroGen because I can't cool the reservoir, and I can't waste 13,000+ gallons of city water a month. I'm going to use bottles of Co2.
> 
> I will attach an 8" inline fan to the carbon filter. I will suck in hot air at the top, pass it through the water cooler and expell the air back into the bottom of the tent. The TV2 controller will speed up the fan whenever the temps get too high, and the CHHC-1 will turn on the water pump. The lights will have a seperate fan going to the attic.
> 
> ...


Be careful when running sealed tents - they're not as sealed as you think, and without negative pressure, it can get real stinky, real fast.

That's why I'm probably gonna have a generator keeping my whole garage at 1500PPMs and my intake and exhaust fans constantly running (through a filter).

Also, in regards to water usage, that amount is alot, but it's not mind-blowing at all - see the link below - you could just have your buddy take showers and wash his dishes over at your place.

http://www.drinktap.org/consumerdnn/Home/WaterInformation/Conservation/WaterUseStatistics/tabid/85/Default.aspx


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 24, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Be careful when running sealed tents - they're not as sealed as you think, and without negative pressure, it can get real stinky, real fast.
> 
> That's why I'm probably gonna have a generator keeping my whole garage at 1500PPMs and my intake and exhaust fans constantly running (through a filter).
> 
> ...


I will have a seperate filtered fan and fresh air fan just for the garage. So that will be 4 carbon filters running in the garage at once. That should be enough to handle any leaky tent. They should be sealed enough for my purposes.

That link stated that the average household uses between 1300 and 2000 gallons per month. I think 13,800 gallons (on lowest setting) would cause some raised eyebrows. Specially cuz the landlord pays the water bill at that residence! Plus, if I used the Hydrogen I would have to dose the whole garage constantly and I couldn't monitor each tent. With bottles, no heat and I can customize the levels for each tent day & night.


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 24, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> I will have a seperate filtered fan and fresh air fan just for the garage. So that will be 4 carbon filters running in the garage at once. That should be enough to handle any leaky tent. They should be sealed enough for my purposes.
> 
> That link stated that the average household uses between 1300 and 2000 gallons per month. I think 13,800 gallons (on lowest setting) would cause some raised eyebrows. Specially cuz the landlord pays the water bill at that residence! Plus, if I used the Hydrogen I would have to dose the whole garage constantly and I couldn't monitor each tent. With bottles, no heat and I can customize the levels for each tent day & night.


Well, you'd have four filters, but the problem is that three of them would (basically) never be running.

As I learned with my filter on my sealed tent, a filter ain't much good if the fucker never comes on - you get what I'm saying? You're gonna have one filter running to clean up all the smells that will be escaping from three tents - I don't like your chances.

I don't know what the best solution is in your case, but I can guarantee you that it's going to be a problem.

Also, I believe that "per capita" at the top of the link was "per person" and not "per household" - hell, for all they know you could have fifteen people up in there.

I was more looking at this:

"Average daily household water use : 350 gallons "

Multiply that by 30 and you're at 10.5, which is well within one standard deviation (I'd have to think, without doing a regression on water usage) from the norm and would be well within reasonable limits.

EDIT: I could be wrong, but I'd bet you dollars to donuts (first time ever using that expression, FYI) that you get tired of dealing with CO2 bottles within the first month of that setup.

You're going to go through about three per week (if using 20#). Bottles just don't really lend themselves to a grow of that size.


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 24, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Well, you'd have four filters, but the problem is that three of them would (basically) never be running.
> 
> As I learned with my filter on my sealed tent, a filter ain't much good if the fucker never comes on - you get what I'm saying? You're gonna have one filter running to clean up all the smells that will be escaping from three tents - I don't like your chances.
> 
> ...


The fans on each tent will almost always be running. The fan/filter will be connected to a temp controller. The controller operates in 3 modes. off-idle-full. OFF at night when the temp drops below 60. IDLE (set on medium speed) at normal temps. FULL speed when temp gets above 80.

I will be using a 8" 700cfm fan on each tent for the filter-cooling. 

I will use a seperate 6" inline just for the lights running out through the attic (on the same timer as the lights).

The water-heat-exchanger mounted on the line into the tent will provide cooling. The fans will automatically adjust their speed, and the CHHC will control the water pump.


----------



## DIRTHAWKER (Feb 24, 2010)

I have to agree Bob.. I am using the bottled co2 now and its a royal pain in the arse!! I scratched the whole using my house heater for co2 beacuse the exhaust coming out is piping hot and would defeat the whole puprose.

So i am looking into the hydrogen co2 natural gas generator mounted outside of the room, and ducting straight through the wall 1ft, heat will be outside but i guess they only work with water. (does it matter how hot the water is?) If im running it out of the room why would i need to chill it?? right?


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 24, 2010)

DIRTHAWKER said:


> I have to agree Bob.. I am using the bottled co2 now and its a royal pain in the arse!! I scratched the whole using my house heater for co2 beacuse the exhaust coming out is piping hot and would defeat the whole puprose.
> 
> So i am looking into the hydrogen co2 natural gas generator mounted outside of the room, and ducting straight through the wall 1ft, heat will be outside but i guess they only work with water. (does it matter how hot the water is?) If im running it out of the room why would i need to chill it?? right?


Dirt, check out a thread I started called "Sentinel Tent CO2" or some other such shit - it's kinda comical, and I actually pipe CO2 from a generator into my 4x4 tent (there's even a video with some great narration by yours truly). Might give you an idea or two, but you're right, bottles are a fugging biatch to deal with.



> The fans on each tent will almost always be running. The fan/filter will be connected to a temp controller. The controller operates in 3 modes. off-idle-full. OFF at night when the temp drops below 60. IDLE (set on medium speed) at normal temps. FULL speed when temp gets above 80.
> 
> I will be using a 8" 700cfm fan on each tent for the filter-cooling.
> 
> ...


Either I'm not understanding what your setup is gonna be or you're not understanding what I'm saying.

You're running sealed tents with CO2 and Sentinels, correct? Basically like what I've got going on, but with three tents?

And your exhaust fan will be hooked up to a filter, correct? 

If those are both correct, and you're indeed running CO2 in an (almost) sealed room, then your exhaust/intake fans WILL NEVER COME ON. Mine come on for ten seconds a day when my tent is running, and that's when the lights turn off and they cool the tent down for the dark period. For the other 23 hours, 59 minutes, and 50 seconds, the tent is just sitting there, being bathed in CO2, but also leaking out some stinky odors.

Now, if your fans are gonna be running more often than that, then you're going to go through about 5-6 bottles of CO2 a week.

Please let me know what I'm missing here, unless you're not going to have an "exhaust" fan and the 700CFM will just be recycling tent air through your filter constantly, which will mitigate the odors in some way.

EDIT: Just realized that you could be thinking of using bottles to enrich the entire garage and that would let you run the fans constantly, but that would also eat through a couple to a few bottles of CO2 a DAY.


----------



## DIRTHAWKER (Feb 24, 2010)

Thanks Bob 

Do you know if those hydrogen gens can be run on a closed loop with no chiller? does it matter how hot the water is? if its not in the room then who cares how hot the res gets..but just wondered if they would break down or something if i just continually pumped hot water through it just to activate it?

thanks for the tips, im gonna search for that video now.


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 24, 2010)

DIRTHAWKER said:


> Thanks Bob
> 
> Do you know if those hydrogen gens can be run on a closed loop with no chiller? does it matter how hot the water is? if its not in the room then who cares how hot the res gets..but just wondered if they would break down or something if i just continually pumped hot water through it just to activate it?
> 
> thanks for the tips, im gonna search for that video now.


As far as the video, just click on the "New Setup" link in my signature.

As far as the HydroGens, I have no clue - I did what I did with a "normal" 13K BTU generator (4 burners); judging from the posts above, however, it seems like the only reservoir you don't need to use a chiller with would be Lake Michigan.

Other then a major body of water (judging from the info above), a chiller is a necessity (or drain to waste).


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 24, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Dirt, check out a thread I started called "Sentinel Tent CO2" or some other such shit - it's kinda comical, and I actually pipe CO2 from a generator into my 4x4 tent (there's even a video with some great narration by yours truly). Might give you an idea or two, but you're right, bottles are a fugging biatch to deal with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think you understand.

Co2 with sealed tents = yes

The fan will NOT be connected to the CHHC. It will be controlled by the TV2. The CHHC will control the water pump for cooling, the dehumdifier, the Co2, and a small heater. 

The "exhaust" fan will suck through the filter and blow right back into the tent. I will connect a water-cooler to the intake port to cool that air. This will be on almost constantly. Then I will add Co2. The air will just be constantly recirculated inside the tent, and cooled by the ice box. I should not go through much Co2 because the tent will be sealed and recirculating.


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 24, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> I don't think you understand.
> 
> Co2 with sealed tents = yes
> 
> ...


Ahhhhh, gotcha; that's what I was trying to ask in the last line before my edit.

Although that will help control odors, as someone who did that for a week (sealed tent with a 425CFM constantly circulating the tent air through a filter), that shit doesn't control odors like you think it would (and I only have one 4x4 tent at the moment).

I had that going with two ozone generators and it wasn't enough; again, I honestly don't know what the best move for you is gonna be in terms of controlling that stank, but I'm just giving you a heads up that I expect it to be an issue.


----------



## smokingrubber (Feb 24, 2010)

I can also add ozone to the garage if nessesary, since the tents will be sealed. I have faith though. I have a 4x9 packed with ripe bud, and my Can66 is doing an excellent job of handling the stank right now! This new grow will be right next door to my house (and my garage), so smell is a real concern! We'll have three 4x9 tents @ 6kw running within 50ft of each other. Lord help us.


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 24, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> I can also add ozone to the garage if nessesary, since the tents will be sealed. I have faith though. I have a 4x9 packed with ripe bud, and my Can66 is doing an excellent job of handling the stank right now! This new grow will be right next door to my house (and my garage), so smell is a real concern! We'll have three 4x9 tents @ 6kw running within 50ft of each other. Lord help us.


Holy fucktwats.

Good thing I checked in on this thread, because I assumed that getting a mini-split installed was no biggie, and that was the way I was gonna go.

I was wrong:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7986&showall=1

Fucked if I'm gonna pay $6K for an AC system.


----------



## DIRTHAWKER (Feb 24, 2010)

Check this AC system out...

http://www.ac-world.com/proddetail.php?prod=R55GW2&cat=DUCTLESS%20SYSTEMS


----------



## Bob Smith (Feb 25, 2010)

DIRTHAWKER said:


> Check this AC system out...
> 
> http://www.ac-world.com/proddetail.php?prod=R55GW2&cat=DUCTLESS SYSTEMS


Yeah, but the issue is that installation guys won't install (or so it seems from the link I posted above) a unit if not bought from them.

Anyways, I had an epiphany last night - realized that I can certainly figure out a way to get an 18K BTU portable hooked up in my garage (and exhausted properly, either into my attic or through a vent I found last night in the garage), and can also run a 1/2 HP chiller up in my attic and have the reservoir in my garage (could even run a 1 or 2HP chiller and have that as the only cooling, but although water cooling is scientifically more effective, that's somewhat misleading because an AC will also dehumidify your air, which water cooling will not).

From the chiller, I'm gonna run a HydroGen and also an Ice Box or two (purely for cooling purposes) off of a 40-50 gallon-ish insulated reservoir.

Figure that should be able to keep an insulated 15x10 foot room cool enough even during the dead of summer (running ~2500-3000 watts HPS total, with a dehumidifier).


----------



## GanjaAL (Mar 2, 2010)

DIRTHAWKER said:


> Check this AC system out...
> 
> http://www.ac-world.com/proddetail.php?prod=R55GW2&cat=DUCTLESS%20SYSTEMS


Nice unit dirt... they even have them a EER20.

This one will run at 1300 watts. But the only thing is getting someone who is certified to do the charging. Instilation is not that hard... it is the certified person to do the coolant charging.

That is why I went the icebox method.

However there is a school in which I could go get my certificate in hvac.... now that would be nice.


----------



## TheRuiner (Aug 6, 2010)

I'm working on an idea to cool a 3x3x6 tent with a couple ice boxes and a 1/2 hp chiller. I want to do something similar to what rubber is talking about and circulate the air in the tent, I'm curious about smell now having read this thread... I was going to add a little electrical tape to any spots that I could tell had leaks to see if that would help.. and seal up the vents real good on the bottom with tape as well. One 3x3 tent shouldn't smell to bad like that will it? I have a can66 in there as well.


----------



## Bob Smith (Aug 6, 2010)

Hotwired said:


> Any updates Bob?


Yeah, building my new setup now, and have basically tossed the idea of ice boxes out.

Still gonna go with a Hydrogen CO2 burner with a remote reservoir, but the hassle of setting up ice boxes, a chiller (or two), a large reservoir, and then having to buy a dehumidifier didn't sit too well with me - also got input from some other growers online that it's not really worth the hassle.

Just gonna use a 14K BTU portable for simplicity's sake (KISS).

Still updating my thread (in sig) - planning to be fully operational within a month, but I update every day or two with my progress.


----------



## Bob Smith (Aug 6, 2010)

TheRuiner said:


> I'm working on an idea to cool a 3x3x6 tent with a couple ice boxes and a 1/2 hp chiller. I want to do something similar to what rubber is talking about and circulate the air in the tent, I'm curious about smell now having read this thread... I was going to add a little electrical tape to any spots that I could tell had leaks to see if that would help.. and seal up the vents real good on the bottom with tape as well. One 3x3 tent shouldn't smell to bad like that will it? I have a can66 in there as well.


Trying to run a tent sealed is virtually impossible - I tried, but you can't stop smell from escaping from a tent.

Also, depending on how hot the outside room is, the tent lacks enough insulation to make cooling it a feasible and efficient solution.

I'm building an insulated room instead of using tents for the exact reasons above.


----------



## TheRuiner (Aug 9, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Trying to run a tent sealed is virtually impossible - I tried, but you can't stop smell from escaping from a tent.
> 
> Also, depending on how hot the outside room is, the tent lacks enough insulation to make cooling it a feasible and efficient solution.
> 
> I'm building an insulated room instead of using tents for the exact reasons above.


Point taken. I love your idea of building an insulated room, that that's what I'd eventually like to do. Until them I might actually try to insulate the tent that I have since it would be a waste otherwise. I could always take the insulation and use it in the room I build when that eventually happens so then it wouldn't be a total waste of money in the end!


----------



## Vento (Aug 9, 2010)

rbahadosingh said:


> could succesfully use my swimming pool water to run through the ice boxes thus reducing the need for a water chiller and save energy.



Wait ... I will fly over in my privet leir jet and take a look lol 



> anyone ever try this???


Yeah we all hook up our swimming Pools to our iceboxes ... Right fellas ? 

Joking aside ..

Sounds like an interesting concept though dude .... got some pics ? ( not of your frikin pool  )


----------



## Bob Smith (Aug 9, 2010)

TheRuiner said:


> Point taken. I love your idea of building an insulated room, that that's what I'd eventually like to do. Until them I might actually try to insulate the tent that I have since it would be a waste otherwise. I could always take the insulation and use it in the room I build when that eventually happens so then it wouldn't be a total waste of money in the end!


You're gonna waste a lot more time and energy trying to seal your tent than you would just buying some 2x4s, plywood, insulation, and some panda.

Trust me, I know of what I speak.

Just sell your tent on Craigslist, and with what you get for it you can build a custom insulated tent to your exact specs.


----------



## 1mikej (Aug 9, 2010)

thats a great idea simply awsome. you might even warm your pool some. can i tell people i thought of it? lol lets us know how it works out.


----------



## HydroDruid (Sep 21, 2010)

rbahadosingh said:


> just checked the water temp in my pool and its 45 degress..... i cant wait to get the ice boxes and water pump and see how good they work.....


The dew point is around 65 degree's. If you run the water any cooler through the ice box you can expect considerable condensation to build in those 1000 watts. The chiller systems have thermometers built in to keep temp's ideal. 

I would rig a water tank (55 gal) to the pool with a thermostat set to 65. As the temp rises the thermostate triggers a send and return pump system to slowly remove warm water and replace with cooler water until 65 is met. The ice box systems feed from a pump send/return system connected directly to the 55 gal water tank. A little more complicated but SAFE and will achieve desired results.

I think it's a great ideal to go for the ice box/pool ideal. You can run water cooled dehumidifiers, water cooled CO2 and air handlers as well. 
Water is far more efficient then air at conducting heat. A proper water cooled system could save you a fortune in cooling.

Good luck,

HD


----------



## ympb (Sep 21, 2010)

I want a pool to run my cooling set-up....


----------



## dwel (Sep 21, 2010)

yo just to let you know copper and chlorine dont mix not a big deal but it will turn your pool water green from the copper if u do do this use pvc as much as you can i piped my pool with copper and yah well lol


----------



## Greenspace (Oct 7, 2010)

aubud said:


> I think it would work...
> Your talking about just using pool water to cool the lights right? i think it would work perfectly, i was going to use a constant flow of water from my appt building to coll one but i decided against it


That is what i ama considering. What were your thoughts on pros and cons of using the building supplied water for cooling? The only thing I am thinking of is excessive water consumption, although it would probably not be noticeable. What do you think?


----------



## Bob Smith (Oct 7, 2010)

That excessive water usage would be detected damn near fucking immediately.

You'd just be having your water line on 24/7, and the water company/your landlord/whoever would be out there the second the first bill came out showing that your usage jumped (no lie) 2400%.

If you live in a building where water is free and you think it's large enough that they wouldn't notice one unit constantly using water, you're wrong as well - the super would be in every apartment checking for leaks, so he'd not only find your grow, but you'd probably be charged for the excess water as well.

Just my $.02.........and for the record, I run a drain to waste water-cooled CO2 generator (but have a "normal" AC for my cooling needs).


----------



## bigb1987 (Oct 7, 2010)

My last grow was pretty much like your idea its a great Idea only one problem with it imo. Your pool pump will draw about 12 amps (mine did) and you will have to run it for 12 hours a day minimum thats alot of energy just to push water around...only reason I did it was I have fresca sols also. but anyway you might be best suited to just exhaust the air out you grow room if possible and buy a nice air condition I know my protables only draw 12 amps and cool plenty and I didnt have to run them 12 hours a days straight either it will prolly be more cost effective that way.


----------



## bigb1987 (Oct 7, 2010)

also you will not want to take these guys advice on using pvc as you do not want the pvc running under your house bcuz you will definitely need to have joints there that could and will leak eventually. My solution was to run braided vinyl tubing (soda hose) as it is flexible, strong and kink resistant. 

All in all its a good Idea I just think you may want to just get a ac or invest in some water jackets. if I still had my setup I would change to all water jackets and have a 4 50 gal barrels and some smaller pumps that draw less energy. But thats just me that is what is most cost efficient however.


----------



## wes22 (Dec 25, 2010)

these are emails that transpired, frankly most all of there products are junk.The ice boxes will not work stand alone as ac for your room. If you set the chiller below 65, your gonna have humidity problems inside the reflector/bulb, and at 65 degrees or above, you aren't gonna be pulling much heat out of the air. My chiller is set a 45* and cycles up till 52*, with condensation lines of course. The problem is you have to consider the fact i'm also using a large pump 24/7 that you don't have on a dx standard ac system. Also the chillers are not consistent, a standard ac while operating, will pull 20* of heat out of the air, while chillers fluctuate because the water temp fluctuates, and i still have a 9 amp pump running 24/7, on a large system. Once you get the water temp above 50*,you will start dropping radically below 16*.


----------



## wes22 (Dec 25, 2010)

Specs:&#8232;Included but not limited too*&#8232;-Split unit twin 5 ton Goodman unit complete with a total of 10 ton in single phase 240v 13 seer&#8232;-twin fans for condensing unit with variable fan speed&#8232;-hard start kit for both scroll compressors&#8232;-5hp compressor wired in series&#8232;-outside dimensions must be less than 7&#8217;x4&#8217; for condenser package&#8232;-upgrade to 1.5 HP pump&#8232;- stainless steel 55 gallon res&#8232;-Separate box for both 5hp compressor&#8217;s with screw on quick connect line&#8217;s fully charged including unit with 8 to 10 ft lines mounted on the short side of condenser&#8232;-3 used 2 ton heat exchanges with fans&#8232;-manifold with 3 ports for feed and return, sold separately&#8232;- 4 thermostats&#8232;*&#8232;Notes from Pat&#8230;&#8232;twin fans should say; fan motor for each condenser to contain low ambient fan cycle switch&#8232;5ton units controlled in two stages by temp controller&#8232;cabinet inside to contain; pump, tank, both compressors and controls,pre charged refrigerant lines with quick connects, 12 ft&#8232;*&#8232;$11,500 for chiller&#8232;$0 for used heat exchangers&#8232;$500 for all copper manifolds with valves (if he want to have them made from PVC they would be cheaper of course, since he wants a quote I&#8217;m assuming that he wants for what he cant build himself)&#8232;the thermostats are on hold right now for further testing, we are having an issue with them but I think that it is interference from digital ballasts b/c they emit RF signal. Until this is figured out maybe you should sell him TV1 or TV2 instead.&#8232;*


----------



## wes22 (Dec 25, 2010)

From: [email protected]&#8232;To: webhead&#8232;Subject: Re: chiller 10 ton&#8232;Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 17:03:16 -0600&#8232;Wes for you to test your chiller would cost you nothing but 15 min of your time. You bought a 10 ton chiller and you got an extra 1/2 ton for free. It should have been worded differently I agree but you are being ridiculous if you expect more than 10.5 tons out of the 10 ton chiller you bought and paid for. Especially since you are only paying for 8 tons of electricity. Prove to me that your chiller isn&#8217;t producing 10 tons and I will do everything in my power to fix, until then I can&#8217;t help you.&#8232;Wes seriously think about this&#8230;.if your chiller is producing more than 10 tons of cooling and only paying electricity for 8 tons of cooling then that is a perfect situation&#8230;.don&#8217;t you see that??? And you expect me to feel like I committed fraud??? I&#8217;m sorry but that isn&#8217;t going to happen. Here is what I think&#8230;.I think that you have got more than 10 tons of heat in your garden and you think that if your compressors were 5 tons each that you would be getting 12 or 13 tons from it instead. You think that even though you bought a 10 ton chiller it should be at 12-13 hp. But lets be honest here, if you opened that up and it had (2) 5 hp compressors and it produced 10.5 tons you would be perfectly happy. You would be happy because that is what you expected the chiller to be. Instead you find out that it does indeed have the tonnage that you bought and paid for but it was actually doing this with smaller compressors saving you 20% on electricity&#8230;.and you think that we screwed you.&#8232;&#8232;


----------



## wes22 (Dec 25, 2010)

Wes I&#8217;m done with this until I personally know your chiller isn&#8217;t producing 10 tons. We can argue about this for a month but it&#8217;s not going to change my mind. I feel like I&#8217;m arguing with a fence post, you buy a 10 ton chiller that you expect to produce 10 tons, which it does. What you want is a 10 ton chiller that produces 10 tons but uses 20% more energy and I think that is stupid, I&#8217;m sorry but it is. You want to threaten our reputation! Go for it! We can&#8217;t build chillers fast enough as it is&#8230;and that&#8217;s because our chillers are badass, use less power, and produce over their btu rating. I would love for you to tell people that your 10 ton chiller, that produces 10 tons, that uses 8 hp compressors to do it. Sounds like a great sales pitch to me.&#8232;As far as the compressor going out. First you tell me it was used for 8 weeks and then 10 weeks, which doesn&#8217;t matter be because it&#8217;s a year old. Leaks caused by the manufacturer don&#8217;t develop after a year of use. But that doesn&#8217;t matter either because after 3 months the warranty covers parts only. This means that I would have to make an exception for you and I&#8217;m not willing to do that because you are being unreasonable and accusing us of fraud. Besides we didn&#8217;t make a dime off of your chiller, greencoast complained they were making enough money because we gave you a price instead of them marking it up even more. We gave our entire $1,500 markup to them. So you got a substantial discount on the chiller because of that. You can more than pay for your compressors with that discount.*&#8232;Wes like I said above I&#8217;m done with this until I know the chiller you have doesn&#8217;t perform at it&#8217;s rating. You know that it does and that&#8217;s why you won&#8217;t test it, you just want it to use 20% more power.&#8232;Stephen*&#8232;Hydro Innovations&#8232;512-917-0248 cell&#8232;512-285-4606 fax&#8232;Sent from iPhone&#8232;On Nov 17, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Wes Riverside wrote:&#8232;Stephen your incorrect others i called aqua products, and cold shot chillers, and with r-22 refrigerant which is what you used they do not sell a 5 ton unit or 10 ton unit with 4 hp compressors, they used 5 hp compressors in there r-22 units.*&#8232;** Yes i would have been happy if the unit had what the receipt stated and only produced 10 tons or less, because i got what i paid for and what we agreed on. Actually by standards the btu ratings have to be 80% not 75%. I have heard too many different views from chill king and hydro innovations on ratings. This is why i meant no disrespect when i said i didn&#8217;t want to hear any more views or opinions. I first heard from Pat (owner of chill king) that my unit put out 138,000 btu, then later he told me, and texted me that it was 126,000 btu, then later he emailed me and i have 125,000 btu which is below, and you say 126,000 btu which is 10.5 tons. This is why i wanted 5 hp compressors, and made sure it was in the receipt, and approved by all parties involved. Under a constant heat load like i have you cannot rely on the stored btu that you have in your chill tank, because the smaller compressors don&#8217;t have a chance to cycle on and off for a long period, they don&#8217;t have a chance to get the temperature of the water down in the chill tank. Wether i am rite or wrong on my theory is irrelevant, i paid for 5 hp compressors, and that&#8217;s what i want.*&#8232;**I am giving you a chance to fix this matter and have good rap-or, and keep a good standing reputation in our small industry.&#8232;&#8232;I recently tested the btu rating on the chiller using a licensed contractor, and chill kings test procedures. It came out at 83,591 btu. Stephen nor chill king wants to take any responsibility for this, and expects me at my cost to ship the unit back from ca, to texas at my expense after i have been repeatedly lied to by both parties. HORRIBLE CUSTOMER SERVICE AND PRODUCT, I AM TRYING TO MAKE SURE THESE COMPANIES DON'T BURN ANYONE ELSE, AFTER I SPENT OVER 11,OOO. THE WELDS AND CRAFTSMANSHIP ARE HORRIBLE AS WELL.&#8232;&#8232;one more point of interest, I also had a compressor fail after 8-10 weeks of operation on the unit.I received the unit in 11/2009 but i had proof from the air handler receipts that it wasn&#8217;t installed till the beginning of september 2010. The failure was due to a refrigerant leak from a union, due to a manufacture defect. I was not reimbursed anything from hydro innovations and chill king paid for parts only 352 out of my $640 bill. thanks again&#8232;


----------



## wes22 (Dec 25, 2010)

WHEN I COPY AND PASTE IT CAN BE DIFFICULT TO distinguish which message is mine, basically he sold me a 10 ton unit with two 5 hp compressors, (sent over his distributor and me a spec sheet above) and then shipped me two 4 hp compressors in the unit. Also his unit doesn't test out too 10 tons, he has a breach of contract, and fraud. I CAN'T BELIEVE CHILL KING AND HYDRO INNOVATIONS IS STILL IN BUSINESS.


----------



## wes22 (Dec 26, 2010)

this is a sample of a build sheet from chill king supplied to me from hydro innovations, and then i see the owner stephen of hydro innov. on you tube saying his 2 ton unit puts out 26,000 btu??? so a one ton unit puts out 23,708 btu and a 2 ton unit puts out 26,000 btu?? Wow hydro innovations, that makes no sense at all. Which lie should i believe? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CulolkUgyGc&feature=related


----------



## wes22 (Dec 30, 2010)

check out my video on Hydro innovations/ chill king review on you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThStAu5PGew


----------



## XS Brain (Dec 30, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> That excessive water usage would be detected damn near fucking immediately.
> 
> You'd just be having your water line on 24/7, and the water company/your landlord/whoever would be out there the second the first bill came out showing that your usage jumped (no lie) 2400%.
> 
> ...


Just got a $540 water bill cause of unknown reasons. Honestly they water company just stops by and says "holy shit batman" you need to fix something. LOL


----------



## wes22 (Dec 30, 2010)

why would you want to waste that much water anyway? Water in the future is gonna be one of the biggest problems globally. In CA the state has mandated, mandatory water conservation in every city.


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 14, 2011)

Here is the companies video response to wes22. [video=youtube;ujWarihpCN4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujWarihpCN4[/video]


----------



## wes22 (Feb 14, 2011)

I made a video about my horrible experience to try and help anyone from experiencing the problems i went through. Instead of offering a fair resolution, Hydro innovations, and Chill king make another you tube video. What a joke, i have emails that transpired between all parties involved. I have proof, that i got screwed, and if anyone is considering purchasing one of his products, just send me a pm through this site, or my you tube account. Everyone can then draw there own conclusion.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 19, 2011)

To whomever cares

Final update: We received the chiller back from the customer and this is a pic of the heat exchanger inside the water reservoir. When there is corrosion of the heat exchanger it can drastically reduce the efficiency of the chiller. Corrosion is caused by failure to add appropriate amounts of propylene glycol as recommended by ChillKing. In the instructions we require propylene glycol to prevent corrosion from happening. The customer claims that he used glycol and has a receipt for it so its possible that he had a bad batch of glycol or maybe it was a diluted mixture already when purchased. While this can be repaired, it is no way a failure on the part of ChillKing or Hydro Innovations. With this new information we have been able to resolve it with the customer so that both videos were deleted and we can put this behind us.
View attachment 1558774


----------



## joe macclennan (Apr 20, 2011)

kudos to you both for resolving this issue.
I have a few questions about the hydro-gen water cooled generator. I recently purchaced one and am yet to hook it up. I have a 300 gallon resevoir that i was going to use for this as drain to waste is not an option. I also have a 1/4 hp eco-plus chiller and am probably going to make a air cooled radiator much like the "ice box" I was wondering if this will be sufficient cooling for it. I know the chiller alone is pitifully small and wholly inadequate by itself but In the owners manual of the hydrogen it says that a 300 gallon resevoir should be sufficient alone. I was hoping that with the generator being off for 12 hours along with my homemade "icebox"would keep my resevoir temps @ a reasonable level. And when the temps get too high i can use the chiller as supplemental cooling.The area i am trying to enrich w/C02 is about 9x12 feet. And i will be running "lights on" @night to help w/air conditioning and heat issues.
My other question is i also read somewhere that to be most efficient the chiller needs to be piped directly into the Hydrogen. Won't this cause condensation in the heat exchanger if the generator is off and the temperature of the resevoir is high enough that the chiller is still running? I figure i will run the output of the generator thru my radiator back to the rez. But the question is where is the best place to put the chiller. inlet of generator or after the radiator in my outlet before the resevoir? 
any advice in this matter will be Greatly appreciated as i am only a couple of weeks away from trying to put it all together.
thanks in advance.


----------



## joe macclennan (Apr 26, 2011)

noone is using the hydrogen-pro?

[email protected] you are the hydro inovations rep right? any suggestions?

joe


----------



## joe macclennan (May 8, 2011)

hmm, The silence is deafening. 
Makes me feel _REAL GOOD about my Hydrogen-Pro purchase _


----------



## purrrrple (May 8, 2011)

First of all the manufacturer reccomends 1 icebox per 1000w lamp/reflector. You'll also need a good inline fan to pull air through the hoods. 

Depending on the temps of your pool it may work although probably not very well during the summer. I *THINK* they say your ambient temps in your room will be about 10 degrees warmer than the water you are using to circulate through your iceboxes.


----------

