# subs supersoil



## malignant (Jun 26, 2012)

[video=youtube;s-jOcEMnTbc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&amp;v=s-jOcEMnTbc&amp;feature=endscreen[/video]


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## HapaHaole (Jun 27, 2012)

EXCELLENT Tutorial thank you! 

I'm gathering all the stuff now so great!
On a side note tho... awwww, I could not see subs "secret-ingredient"?


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## malignant (Jun 27, 2012)

just reposting and making it stick. something nobody should have to look hard for.


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## elduece (Jun 27, 2012)

HapaHaole said:


> EXCELLENT Tutorial thank you!
> 
> I'm gathering all the stuff now so great!
> On a side note tho... awwww, I could not see subs "secret-ingredient"?


I think somebody had figured it out already. Either a cup of composted bonemeal/blood meal of a trespasser or thief, same difference.


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## HapaHaole (Jun 28, 2012)

elduece said:


> I think somebody had figured it out already. Either a cup of composted bonemeal/blood meal of a trespasser or thief, same difference.


EXCELLENT idea! (an "ex" will do too I guess, but anyway...) 

I had to laugh. If you google "subcool's secret ingredient" (with and without the "for super soil") the responses, and guesses are, uh... creative? LOL and funny (kief? seriously? ha ha ha, now watch it be that!)


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## knnthc93 (Jun 29, 2012)

its humic acid, the "special ingredient"


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## Growop101 (Aug 13, 2012)

he put such a little amound of the secret ingredient, its prob nothing lol


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## budmikey253905 (Aug 21, 2012)

Just started my first run with super soil and got a journal to go along.. anyone welcome to come along and see the weekly updates using subcools supersoil with roots organic as base soil. 

Peace,
bud


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## medical/420 (Aug 21, 2012)

Sub says that easy feeding plants only need super soil in the bottom 1/4 of the contaner, and heavyer feeders 1/2 full with super soil.

here is my question?? wouldn't it be better for a light feeding plant to have still only 1/4 super soil, but to have that 1/4 mixed up to the 1/2 mark with your base soil so it is not as strong???


Second question, the recipe calls for 5 pounds of 0-5-0 guano, whould you use the same amout or half as much it you were to use 0-12-0 guano????


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## BeaverHuntr (Aug 22, 2012)

long time hydro grower here, my first batch of Super Soil has been cooking under the 110 degree Phoenix Sun for about 24 days so far. Cant wait to give the super soil a run.


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## budmikey253905 (Aug 22, 2012)

yo medical/420,
i would just stick to the 1/4 and then mix a couple of inches of base soil with the super soil and then add ur base soil in rest of pot. 
answer to second question is exactly what u said just p ut half of the amount required if ur guano has double the phosphorous. my plants got hot feet due to putting them in super soil too quickly .. 
so as long as u wait til ur plants are fully rooted u are golden.

stay high,
bud


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## anurism1 (Sep 22, 2012)

Hi. I was wondering what the affect will be if I trans from 1gallon pots to 3 gallon with 40% supersoil straight into flower. Have any of you donethis. I usually veg a good 3 to 4 weeks if bigger pots. But I want to try a few smaller plant.


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## jcdws602 (Oct 4, 2012)

Depends on strain....if it can tolerate this mix, which is pretty hot.....they will do fine....I have tried it and had mixed results....some did good but didn't fade and some just didn't take well at all.....I wouldn't suggest trying a whole batch.......


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## WhiteRooster (Oct 4, 2012)

I want to try out the super soil method with a few supplements Sweet Raw as my carbohydrate source, Silica Blast as my pH up, and Hygrozyme as my pH down.


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## farmit420 (Oct 24, 2012)

awesome breakdown on mix bro! thanks a ton...


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## <Grasshopper> (Nov 18, 2012)

Humic Powder?


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## bongmarley7 (Nov 23, 2012)

I am going to make a large amount of Subs SuperSoil. 1250gallons to be exact. I made one batch with these ingredients and filled 3 3/4x32gallon trashcans (124gal but we will round up to 125gal). 50lb worm casting5lb steamed bone meal5lb bat guano5lb blood meal 3lb rock phosphate3/4 cup epsom salt1 cup sweet lime (dolomite)1/2 cup azomite2tbs powedered humic acid8 bags roots organic2 bags perlite (12quart size bags)2 bags cocoThis gave me 125gallons of soil. I want to create enough soil for to last me a perpetual harvest. Schedule:Example. I want to cut 16 clones and harvest 16 plants every 2 weeks. I need help figuring this out, i think i have it figured out but advice on scheduling would be nice. im allowed up to 72plants but would like to base my PHarvest off 64 that way i have a safety zone to play with mothers etc...back to the mass amount of super soil, i did the math and this is what ive come up with:530lbs worm castings50lbs bone meal50lbs bat guano50lbs blood meal30lbs rock phosphate 5 3/4 cups epsom salt10 cups dolomite lime 3,5 cups azomite20 tbs powdered humic acid240 bags roots organic ( i will order by the pallet)26 bag coco14 bag perliteThis should make roughly 1250 gallons of supersoil. this ought to last me a year....i hope. what do you think fellow friends


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## anurism1 (Dec 1, 2012)

Do you guys think or know whether or not, if your SS is hot if that could cause plants to get seeds?


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## greenghost420 (Dec 20, 2012)

would some silica blast be the best way to add some silica or any ammendments i can throw in?


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## Cann (Dec 21, 2012)

use diatomaceous earth for long term silica. organic rice also has a good amount of silica in it and will feed the fungi in your soil...i dont know silica blast personally so I would be skeptical to add it, I do however add Dyna-grow Pro-tekt into every watering for silica.


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## greenghost420 (Dec 21, 2012)

i was teetering between protekt and rhino skin...iv never used silica blast either.


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## Cann (Dec 25, 2012)

protekt is the shit. didnt know about it a few months ago and now I consider it a must have in my garden...its especially good for neutralizing the pH of acidic teas...also good in a foliar spray mixed with neem oil - the protekt acts as an emulsifier 

make sure you check the ingredients - not all sources of silica are the same - Potassium silicate is what you want I believe...not 100% sure on that but I know that Pro-tekt is awesome, so if you can afford it i'd say get after it. you won't be dissapointed

I know a few people who barely use any bottled nutes - but pro-tekt is always one of the few they do use...this says something.


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## Anatory (Dec 29, 2012)

Sub Super Soil Organic Soil forum at International Cannagraphic Magazine.


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## Kalyx (Dec 30, 2012)

Why is protekt an acceptable product in an organic garden? As I understand it all these 0-0-3 silicas are synth molecules. I have incorporated silica stone into my mix and am searching for more organic ways to use Si.


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## SpliffAndMyLady (Dec 30, 2012)

Protekt isn't organic, but Cann is right I know plenty of "organic" guys who use that nutrient. I look at it like high fructose syrup, which is found in a lot of "organic" products, doesn't make much sense because 1. The corn they used was GMO and 2. The extraction procress is totally unatural IMO. Yet it's still seen in so many "organic" products. It's so sad. . . A lot of people don't even know what their actually eating; I didn't.


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## Cann (Jan 2, 2013)

Great point Spliff - it's always important to know what you are putting into yourself/your ladies. It astonishes me sometimes the things people knowingly consume..I guess they must not know enough haha....

As far as Protekt goes, it says on the bottle "Beyond Organic", but isnt OMRI listed or anything...so looks like some typical stoner joe marketing to make it look organic even when it might not be...that being said, I know for a fact that it will not disturb your microbeasties or the general function of your organics - Lumperdawgz himself recommends using Protekt, and even goes on to say that at a point he didn't believe silica was important but he was VERY WRONG. If any of y'all know Lumperdawgz aka Clackamascoot (depending on what forum you are on lol) you will know that he is a very reputable name in organic farming - he has owned an organic nursery in oregon for 15+ years I believe...and he uses protekt....that should be enough right there. For the extreme purists out there, diatomaceous earth and rice both provide a large amount of silica - DE is mostly insoluble and therefore takes a while to become available, whereas rice is a bit more available but could potentially lead to bacterial problems in the soil if you add too much


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## BeaverHuntr (Jan 2, 2013)

So the verdict is?? Protekt good for organic growing? When should one use it? I'm barely on my second soil/organics grow.. I was a hydro guy for a while. Made the switch and loving it.


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## greenghost420 (Jan 2, 2013)

well they might not have wanted to pay to have the omri stamp...doesnt mean it isnt good enough to be omri stamped though! i just ordered rhino skin but will be ordering protekt next for running supersoil and then tlo...


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## SpliffAndMyLady (Jan 2, 2013)

Protekt isn't organic, if you want to use it go ahead everyone grows different. Look that one dude he doesn't even believe in Silica. Use it, if it works for you, keep using it. I reccommend brushing up on your biology,agriculture, and soil science. It'll help you understand organics. You can't expect to fix cars for a living if you don't know anything about cars, study yo stuff!!!


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## Cann (Jan 3, 2013)

Good point Spliff. Since most people on here are too damn lazy to do their own homework I figured I'd do it for em. Thanks to _Lumperdawgz_ over on Grasscity for posting this link back in the day - http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/blog/2010/06/silica-the-hidden-cost-of-chemicals/ 


*Silica - The Hidden Cost of Chemicals 
*
A major mineral is missing in many soils and most soil tests do not even monitor its presence. This mineral can increase stress resistance, boost photosynthesis and chlorophyll content, improve drought resistance, salt tolerance and soil fertility and prevent lodging. lt can also reduce insect pressure, frost damage and destructive disease while lowering irrigation rates, neutralising heavy metal toxicity and countering the negative effects of excess sodium. If I were to tell you that this same missing mineral can increase root growth, boost yield and enhance crop quality, you could well ask, how could we have overlooked something so important? and you would be correctIt has been a serious oversight. The mineral in question is silicon, and science is rapidly revealing the scope and scale of our silicon neglect.

*Poverty in a Sea of Abundance*

Silicon is not classed as an essential nutrient, but, in response to a wealth of new findings highlighting the importance of this nutrient, that status may soon change. Silicon is the second most abundant mineral on the planet. It is everywhere. Clays are alumina silicates and sand is largely silicon, so how could there be a shortage of silicon? The answer lies in the form of silicon that enters the plant. Plants uptake silicon as silicic acid and this is what is missing in the soil. Something we have done in conventional agriculture appears to have compromised the conversion of insoluble silicon into the plant available form. It may reflect a mineral imbalance or we may have knocked out some of the soil microbe species that solubilise this mineral. It is not yet understood what drove the widespread deficiency but we do know that a healthy, disease suppressive soil should contain 100 ppm of monosilicic acid (as measured in a soil analysis) and very few soils come anywhere near that mark!

Little was known about the multiple roles of silicon until recently. It was known to be present in every soil but it was only when it became less plant available that it was realised that there may be a link between this loss and a host of growing problems. During the last decade, silicon seems to have become flavour of the month in the soil science community. Researchers have delved more deeply and hundreds of papers have been presented at the International Silicon Conferences in Brazil and South Africa. This neglected mineral is now emerging as a key player in proactive pest and disease management and the production of nutrient dense food. If you are not yet aware of the silicon story then this article should serve to fill some gaps.

*Cell Strength is Resilience*

The cell wall in plants is a substantial barrier that must be breached to gain access to the goodies within. A fungal pathogen must drill through this wall with its hyphae to be able to tap into the nutritious cell centre. Once this goal is achieved, the pest has the food source that sponsors its spread, and a disease is born. There is an obvious opportunity here to stop the pathogen in its tracks. What happens if we strengthen that cell wall so that the hyphae buckle? Its simple  the disease cannot gain a foothold and will not spread. Similarly, why would a leaf eating insect choose to wear out his eating gear on silicon-strengthened rock cakes when it can go elsewhere for sponge. Many published papers have now confirmed the exciting potential for increased disease and insect resistance through good silicon nutrition. In one paper presented at the South African conference, soluble silicon used as a soildrench had the equivalent inhibitory effect as phosphorus acid in the management of phytopthora in avocados. However, the silicon-treated plants had much more vigorous roots and canopies. In another case silicon was shown to offer effective management of dreaded black sigatoka in bananas. Other papers reported efficacy against brown rust in sugar cane, powderymildew in cucurbits, fusarium wilt in potatoes and leaf blast in rice.

Interestingly, the plant understands the protective potential of silicon, even if we dont. When a disease begins, the plant directs all available silicon to the attack site, to strengthen the surrounding cells and stop or slow the spread of the pathogen. There is a problem here, though, because silicon is immobile once incorporated into the cell wall. It must be in constant supply so that the plant can utilise it at these times. Most soils contain less than half of the soluble silicon required so there can be significant benefits in foliar spraying silicon at the first sign of a disease. This can stop the spread of the disease and many growers are successfully using this strategy.


*Silicon and Sun Power*

Photosynthesis is the most important process on the planet. The green plant is the only source of food and the management of chlorophyll, the green pigment where all the action happens, is the chief role of the farmer. Silicon is a gold sponsor of the sugar factories within the plant as it supports this process in several ways. The leaf is essentially a solar panel, the underside of which also serves to capture the CO2 gas as it rises from the roots and soil life. The better that panel is presented, the more efficient it will prove in capturing sunlight, water and CO2 (the three components of photosynthesis). Silicon strengthens the stem and holds that panel in perfect position. The plant is less likely to droop in warm conditions and more likely to maximise photosynthesis.

Minerals are the major players in the photosynthesis equation. Blotches, stripes and pale colours, from shortages of minerals, represent the mismanagement of chlorophyll. Sometimes its not just the lack of these nutrients but their delivery into the crop that is the issue. Silicon can have a big impact upon mineral uptake. Phloem and xylem are the pathways that govern mineral absorption and the translocation of minerals within the plant. These nutrient highways are built from silicon and their performance will suffer in its absence.

Calcium is an example of a poorly translocated mineral that will be utilised more efficiently when the nutrient highways are broad and true. Boron is a calcium synergist, which can improve the performance of calcium, but it has recently been recognized that boron also boosts silicon uptake. Boron solubilises insoluble silicon and it is a good idea to combine boron, calcium and silicon in your program to maximise the synergistic potential of the trio. One popular strategy involves the application of boron to the soil in late winter to trigger the release of silicon. The soluble silicon will be used to build the super highways that will improve the sluggish uptake of calcium (needed for cell division during the spring flush).

*Silicon  The Stress Savior*

There are two types of stress that affect production negatively. Abiotic stress involves the negative impact of environmental factors upon living organisms and biotic stress is about pest pressure. Abiotic stress is the single most harmful factor impacting crop growth and productivity on the planet and it can only have more impact as global warming progresses. However, biotic stress is not far behind. Every year since we began the chemical experiment in agriculture there has been an increase in the total amount of chemicals applied on a global scale and every year there has also been a marked increase in pest pressure. The current path is not sustainable; in fact it is not working! There is an obvious relationship between abiotic stress and biotic stress in that environmental factors will increase pest pressure. We are seeing this in all of the countries in which we work. Even in the local ginger industry, right on our doorstep, growers are experiencing pythium pressure unlike anything they have previously experienced. This destructive fungus has found a new niche in the wettest growing season ever. This does not represent a deficiency of fungicides but rather it highlights the desperate need for a more holistic approach that will offer a greater level of inherent protection during times of stress.

Silicon can reduce the impact of both abiotic and biotic stressors and it represents an essential component of a program designed to create a disease suppressive soil and stress resistant plants. The stronger the cell wall, the more stress resistant the plant, whether that stress is from pathogens or non-living factors.

Part of the climate change forecast is an increase in extreme weather events. Wind can be particularly destructive in that it can promote lodging, which can render the crop unharvestible. At the most recent silicon conference, Iranian researcher, A. Fallah, presented a paper reporting a reduction of silicon within the plant associated with high nitrogen usage. It is already understood that over application of nitrogen has a nutrient diluting effect and that the mineral most affected is potassium. Now we understand that mismanagement of nitrogen can also impact silicon nutrition and the associated protective effect of this mineral. In this instance, weaker stem strength and increased susceptibility to lodging were noted in the rice crop studied. Fallah reported much strongerstems and resistance to lodging in silicon treated crops.

One of the stressors that is becoming more of an issue in many soils is the oversupply of heavy metals, salts and some trace minerals. In all cases, silicon has been shown to mitigate the stress. Copper (Cu) can build up in the soil due to the overuse of fungicides. We have found humates a valuable tool to neutralise the negatives associated with this excess. Silica has been effective in mitigating the effect of a variety of heavy metals but recent US research suggests that silicon may be a viable management tool in high copper soils. J. Li, J. Frankz and S. Leisner working in flower crops in Ohio, found that silicon could very effectively mitigate Cu toxicity stress and the improvement was measured on multiple levels.

Swedish researchers working in cadmium contaminated soils found that the higher the silicon level in the plant, the lower the cadmium level. In fact, there was 60% less cadmium in the silica treated food grains.

In some exciting Russian research involving wheat, silica was shown to alleviate salt stress quite dramatically. Wheat is notoriously sensitive to high salinity and the salt created a major decrease in photosynthesis. The addition of silicon to the soil resulted in increases in photosynthesis ranging from 158% to 520% depending upon the salt concentration in the soil. This is one of several studies highlighting the silicon link to salt management. We always recommend the inclusion of small amounts of humic acid and potassium silicate with every irrigation, to manage saline irrigation water.

A South Australian study reported reduced drought stress and an associated reduction in pest pressure following silicon treatment. This study found that applied silicon mitigated the increased insect pressure that was a direct effect of high levels of nitrogen. Not only does high N shut down silica uptake but applied silica can also compensate for this nitrogen mismanagement.

Cold stress can even be addressed with silicon. South African scientists working with bananas have shown that silicon protected the plants from cold damage and that an associated increase in vigour decreased the bananas susceptibility to Fusarium Wilt.

This enhanced protection from disease has been well researched. A recent Japanese study entitled Silicon in the Control of Diseases in Rice, Sorghum and Soybean, found reductions in brown spot pressure that varied between 35% and 75% in rice studies. They found significant reductions in anthracnose in silicon-treated sorghum and the results were quite dramatic when foliar applying potassium silicate to manage soybean rust. They concluded their paper with the following words; The results of these studies underscore the importance of Si to increase plant resistance to foliar disease.

This increase in disease resistance was originally thought to be related to the barrier effect linked to increased cell strength, but it is now understood to be also related to increased plant immunity.


*Silicon-Based Immunity*

One of the most dynamic research streams in agricultural science relates to the investigation of plant immunity and the triggers that activates the plant to fight its own battles. It is now understood that the plant has an immune system, which can be both monitored and magnified. Salicylic acid, for example, the biochemical upon which aspirin is based, activates the plants immune system. *Aloe vera* is the richest natural source of this compound and many of our growers benefit from the inclusion of this plant extract in their programs.

Recently, silicon has been found to trigger the production of a suite of compounds that fuel immunity. This mineral is now seen as an integral tool in proactive pest management as it offers both protective cell strength while also fuelling a robust defense system.

Phenolic compounds are one of the biochemicals that are part of this defense system and these compounds are now recognised as key players in the protection of avocado trees from Phytopthora cinnamoni. T.F Bekker, et al, from the University of Pretoria, conducted research which demonstrated that soil applications of potassium silicate to soils affected by this disease, increased the total phenolic content of the avocado root tissue.

It is interesting to note that this silicon-based, immune response is most pronounced when there is existing disease pressure. Its almost like the plant calls in the heavy artillery when the going gets tough! A Canadian paper presented at the South African conference involved the study of 30,000 genes. The researchers reported that unstressed plants appeared to be minimally affected by silicon feeding with the associated up regulating of only two genes. (Note: upregulation is the process by which a cell increases the quantity of a cellular component such as RNA or protein in response to an external variable.) However, in stressed plants (affected by powdery mildew) there was an up regulation of a number of genes. A Spanish paper also covered the Powdery Mildew control potential of silicon and they found that the inclusion of amino acids with the silicon fertiliser enhanced the response.

Russian researchers have hypothesised that the plant immune system requires mobile silica compounds and if there is luxury levels of silica available to the plant there will be additional synthesis of stress protection molecules. A co-operative research effort between American and Japanese scientists showed that silica related resistance involves multiple pathways and that silica amendment clearly alters plant defense signaling, increasing the plants disease resistance.

*Fertiliser Sources of Silicon*

Silica fertilisers are available in liquid and solid form and the liquids offer the most rapid response. Silicon is found in good levels in rock mineral fertilisers and in rock phosphate and guano products. However, this is not the plant available form of the mineral and, depending on the particle size, it may take many years for the mineral to become available. This is not the case if the fertiliser is a calcium silicate or magnesium silicate but you need to ask about the solubility of any silica fertiliser you may be considering. This is also not the case if these materials are micronised.

Diatomaceous earth in the amorphous form is a very rich source of insoluble silica. The material is basically the exoskeletons of tiny prehistoric creatures called diatoms. These remains contain up to 85% silica dioxide and the silica shell is sharp and jagged under a microscope, almost like a broken razor blade. Diatomaceous earth has been used as a natural insecticide for decades, as the jagged, little razor blades can cut up the offending insects exoskeleton causing the creature to dehydrate and die. This material is also used internally as a natural means to control intestinal parasites. The rich silica lode fromdiatomaceous earth can be made plant-available by micronising the material right down to a tiny particle size of 5 microns. It can then be held in a liquid suspension and applied via boom spray or fertigation. As little as 5 litres of liquid, micronized diatomaceous earth per hectare, applied through fertigation on a regular basis, can lift leaf levels of silica into the luxury zone, with all of the associated benefits.


Reading this brought up another issue for me - how should I be using Aloe to its fullest potential? Anyone out there using it? Would be great to know 

Hope this helps someone out there. I know I learned a lot...


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 3, 2013)

Protekt is not oranic, it is synthetic. 

Using Protekt, IME, creates an unsatisfactory finished product for me and my subjective preference.

Using soaps and oils is also unsatisfactory in my garden. Neem oil especially.

There is a simple rule I follow: I do not put things on my plants that kill other living things...unless it is nematodes or ladybugs


Take all the guess work out of growing with this: The focus on growing should be mainly on root growth and promotion by creation and maintenance of the soil food web.

If you don't know what I am talking about, then read this book: Teaming with Microbes

You really shouldn't be growing at all in soil-based, organic mediums with expensive seeds and setups if you have not read this book.

-Snafu


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 3, 2013)

greenghost420 said:


> well they might not have wanted to pay to have the omri stamp...doesnt mean it isnt good enough to be omri stamped though! i just ordered rhino skin but will be ordering protekt next for running supersoil and then tlo...


Supersoil and TLO (Subcool and The Rev are both very knowledgeable and respetctable organic gardeners) are of the same principle, just different styles and mixes and slightly different methods. All in all, it is all about the soil microbiology, AKA the Soil Food Web...

-Snafu


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## greenghost420 (Jan 3, 2013)

damn i thought i could read the book with that link...wheres the free download?! lol


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 3, 2013)

That knowledge is worth its weight in gold. You would do the authors and the industry some good if you just bought it.


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## greenghost420 (Jan 3, 2013)

i shouldve purchased this book instead of tlo im guessing...


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## Lucius Vorenus (Jan 3, 2013)

Can you use Coco instead of the Soil when making this?


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## SpliffAndMyLady (Jan 3, 2013)

greenghost420 said:


> i shouldve purchased this book instead of tlo im guessing...


The download for the book Teaming with Microbes is in Rrogs signature also.


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## greenghost420 (Jan 3, 2013)

thanks i appreciate that!^^


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## Cann (Jan 3, 2013)

greenghost - you definitely should've bought Teaming with Microbes before TLO. After reading Teaming with Microbes, TLO seems like is is mostly fluff...

go to RRog's link and get to readin! Also, this is a great summary of the book - http://timberglade.typepad.com/outside/2007/01/book_club_teami.html 


Snafu - is Protekt unsatisfactory to you cause you know its not organic and you're an organic purist? Just curious if you have actually had bad results with it or not. Don't wanna f*** up my ladies.....

And why no neem oil? Do you use neem cake in the soil? How do you protect against powdery mildew? I would love to never spray neem again...but too paranoid about PM and serenade smells like nasty feet lol (still have a bottle though just in case).


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## greenghost420 (Jan 3, 2013)

i meant to come back and let you know that link to teaming with microbes doesnt work.


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## Kalyx (Jan 3, 2013)

Danks guys. I am referring back to the silica question. Protekt and all other liquid silicas are full synth molecules yet many organic "purists", even Matt Rize and other uber snobs use the liquid silicas on their plants and still hype them as organic or veganic. I fully understand that these definitions are subjective for each gardener, but to me synth products are out period. The woods do not use any synth so neither do I. 

IMO organic is like pregnant, you either are or aren't. 

Protekt = plants Aren't fully organic. Some call it Nazi organic when I explain the lengths of _my_ definition of organic meds.

My last favorite use of said liquid silicas was as an emulsifier. Snafu prefers even to avoid soaps and natural oils... so what are the emulsifiers in such a true organic style?

Does coco wet pass your test? Danks for the help.


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## Cann (Jan 3, 2013)

So many purists on here its great. I guess after this bottle of protekt I will experiment with alternative silica sources...but after reading that article I am going to be including silica somehow from here on out. 

I'm thinking about making up a stinging nettle tea...apparently it is a good source of silica. Here is a quote from, of course, _Lumperdawgz_:

*"You can use certain plants and make a tea from them and get a readily available source of silica (for example). Stinging nettle contains 6,500 ppm of Silica which is really, really high.

If you're not inclined to dress-up and play Daniel Boone and tromp through the forest to drag home nettle plants then you can buy organic dry nettle leaf for less than $10.00 per lb. I'd say that you'd want to use 1 oz. of nettle leaf to 1 quart of water and let it stand for several days. Strain and dilute to make 1 gallon of nettle tea and apply to the soil and this ratio is safe enough for spraying on the leaves and plants. 

It's my experience that the silica in nettle leaf is assimilated faster than liquid silica (generally potassium sillicate)

Comfrey is also a good source of silica (as well as phosphorus, potassium, trace minerals, Vitamins A - K, phytohormones, auxins, etc. same as nettle leaf). Comfrey runs a bit more (about $1.00) per lb.

The top plant source for silica is probably rice - 140,000 ppm and it takes a bit more work/effort to coax it from the grain but it's doable. 

HTH

LD"
*

greenghost - do you mean RRog's link or mine? Cause mine seems to be working for me...and if RRog's doesnt work there might be a torrent out there? If not the summary i linked should suffice until you can put your hands on the text.


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## SpliffAndMyLady (Jan 3, 2013)

Strange, the link works for me. . .It is a pdf file though so you need to let it download then open the file with adobe; or some program ly'dat!


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## SpliffAndMyLady (Jan 3, 2013)

Kalyx said:


> IMO organic is like pregnant, you either are or aren't.


. . . . . . . . . . .


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## Rising Moon (Jan 4, 2013)

Dandelion leaves contain HUGE amounts of Silica as well...


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## greenghost420 (Jan 4, 2013)

i waited for awhile with excitement...lol


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cann said:


> greenghost - you definitely should've bought Teaming with Microbes before TLO. After reading Teaming with Microbes, TLO seems like is is mostly fluff...
> 
> go to RRog's link and get to readin! Also, this is a great summary of the book - http://timberglade.typepad.com/outside/2007/01/book_club_teami.html
> 
> ...


Hey Cann,

Good questions!

I'm not an organic purist, but am partial to organics. If I was a purist, I would be an outdoor grower through and through.

Protekt has not given me bad results during growing...in fact it is satisfactory in growing, and plants respond well to it. However, if compared to an identical clone in a controlled analysis, the final finished product using Protekt (IME) was harsher and not as flavorful as the one that Protekt was not used.

Neem oil, yuck. Traditionally it has been used to treat a wide variety of ailments including acne...Ayurvedic traditions used neem extensively. However, in contemporary times it is used in all kinds of soaps, makeup and other applications...in our case, a biologically organic insecticide.

Neem oil will unequivocally cause damage to the Soil Food Web. In my experience plants respond well to it, but the underlying soil layers hurt from it. I have always found that I need to rebound my soil after a neem or Azamax drench with a quality AACT or soemthing equivalent like humus/casting layers. But alas, nowadays my gardening doesn't require me to have Neem Oil or Azamax or any other pesticide. I have found that a proper bio soil does all the work for me and creates no problems and mitigates risks.

Powdery mildew? Never had it. Ever. Neem cake? Never used it, but I have used Neem Oil. I do not know what Serenade is.


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## Cann (Jan 4, 2013)

Hmm...what type of damage do you think neem does to the food web? As far as I can tell, neem is harmless to microbes and beneficial insects like earthworms, microarthropods, etc. Check out this quote from _*Eco12*_ on grasscity:


_Neem seed meal (aka Neem cake) is used in agriculture as a __soil amendment, protecting the roots and enhancing plant growth. Products made from Neem trees have been used in India for over two millennia for their medicinal properties. Neem cake organic manure is the by-product obtained in the process of cold pressing of Neem tree fruits and kernels, and the solvent extraction process for neem oil cake. Neem Cake has an adequate quantity of NPK (5-1-1) in organic form for plant growth. Being a totally botanical product it contains 100% natural NPK content and other essential micro nutrients as N(Nitrogen 2.0% to 5.0%), P(Phosphorus 0.5% to 1.0%), K(Potassium 1.0% to 2.0%), Ca(Calcium 0.5% to 3.0%), Mg(Magnesium 0.3% to 1.0%), S(Sulphur 0.2% to 3.0%), Zn(Zinc 15 ppm to 60 ppm), Cu(Copper 4 ppm to 20 ppm), Fe (Iron 500 ppm to 1200 ppm), Mn (Manganese 20 ppm to 60 ppm). It is rich in both sulphur compounds and bitter limonoids.

According to research calculations, Neem cake seems to make soil more fertile due to an ingredient that blocks soil bacteria from converting nitrogenous compounds into nitrogen gas. It is a nitrification inhibitor and prolongs the availability of nitrogen to both short duration and long duration crops.
Neem cake also protects plant roots from nematodes, soil grubs and white ants probably due to its content of the residual limonoids. It also acts as a natural fertilizer with pesticidal properties. Neem cake is widely used in India to fertilize paddy, cotton and sugarcane. 
Neem seed cake also reduce alkalinity in soil, as it produces organic acids on decomposition. *Being totally natural, it is compatible with soil microbes, improves and rhizosphere microflora and hence ensures fertility of the soil. Neem cake improves the organic matter content of the soil, helping improvement in soil texture, water holding capacity, and soil aeration for better root development.*
One of the active ingredients in Neem is azadirachtin. You&#8217;ve probably seen or heard of products like Azamax, Azasol, or Azatrol. All are products that have isolated the azadirachtin in various concentrations, and claim biological insecticide or fungicides. Not only are these products more expensive, but they will be lacking a plethora of other active compounds found in neem. Research has shown that some of these minor neem chemicals even paralyze the "swallowing mechanism" and so prevent insects from eating. 
Most of the retail products contain Azadirachtal at 1,500 PPM. Many of the extracts are as high as 6,500 PPM so caution needs to be used when figuring out a mixing ratio.

Here&#8217;s an article specifically addressing this:
FUNCTIONAL BLOCKS OF NEEM OIL Dr.Ilangovan Ramasamy, B ...&#8232;&#8232;Neem's natural properties pose no danger of toxic reactions. It's main mode of action is classified as an "anti-feedant", meaning that insect pests usually refuse to eat any plant covered with neem and do so until they starve to death. Other effects are as a repellant and a reducer of the insect's ability to reproduce.
Elimination of the insect pest occurs not by quick poisoning, but by starvation and drastic reductions in offspring. Birds and beneficial insects, which are not affected by neem, then feed on the remaining weakened pests and the small number of remaining offspring. The result is an almost immediate halt to plant damage- without poisoning the environment.
Neem garden spray is non-toxic to animals and people. Areas sprayed with neem are not poisonous areas to be avoided for days as those sprayed with the typical synthetic insecticides. Neem is also a natural, bio-degradable product.* Only insects that eat plants are affected by neem, leaving honeybees and other beneficial insects essentially unharmed. In fact, in those areas sprayed with neem, the average size and number of earthworms is greater that in unsprayed areas.*
_
I use neem cake, so there is _always_ azadirachtin in my soil...amongst many other neem based triterpines (limonoids), and I'm pretty sure my soil food web is alive as ever... (never had it tested though, so obviously I can't make any claims). And damn, congrats that you have never ran into powedery mildew...seems to me that around here (so-cal) you can't pick up a clone from a club without it. I never have PM issues when growing from seed...it's always someone else's infected clone. Serenade is a concentrated liquid culture of a strain of bacillus subtilis, which when diluted and applied to the leaves will outcompete/consume the powdery mildew. Basically a bacterium that eats the fungal hyphae and keeps the fungus from fruiting (appearing on the leaves/spreading spores to more plants).


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## Kalyx (Jan 4, 2013)

I have always wondered what my neem/azatrol drip is doing to the herd? 

Snafu, what have you noted in your garden that is evidence of neem damage to the soil food web?

Also, does anyone take the time to physically cover their container to prevent this?

PM sucks, I had never experienced it before getting a job in a big medi grow where it seems rampant. I thought we had it under wraps and then BAM when the weather cooled off, I saw the garden was infested bad! Every variety I have brought there falls victim quickly. I shower before tending my own garden but its got me noided as hell about bringing that in! I feel guilty knowing infected cuts are going out to patients all the time.  Work is all synth hydro and my home is an all organic living soil project, a bit different in resistance I guess. At home I brought back a solid neem/karanja/azatrol regimen to combat the PM threat, plus mites love to infiltrate everything still alive in the fall where I live. I don't want to hurt the herd, and it seems a physical barrier to the drip hitting the soil surface could be a minimal extra step. Is it necessary?

PS I also use neem and karanja meals in my mix and it seems alive and well after cooking.


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## Cann (Jan 5, 2013)

Kalyx - I doubt the neem/azatrol drip is doing anything negative...but then again thats always been my point of view. Good call with the neem/karanja meals - I need to order a bag of karanja myself, but need to pay some bills first. 

I feel ya on the whole PM thing, it'll lurk inside the plant systemically, and then all of a sudden just explode and sporulate all over the leaves. You think you have it under control, hasnt been around for weeks, and then all of a sudden you notice almost every plant is showing....shit sucks. I'm glad I have it under wraps in my house, for a while my quarantine area was infected with PM plants I had got from a friend, but I killed em all lol so now I'm not as paranoid. Before I was changing clothes, washing myself all the time, etc. to try and keep the spores from spreading. Sucks that you have to go into a PM infested garden all the time...would make me paranoid as hell. Also its brutal you have to give out the infected cuts to patients...it sucks to see the excited look on someones face when you know the cut is just going to give them problems in the future. At least you have a job where you are growing plants though  Have you ever brought up organics to your boss lol? I know most large scale medi operations try to go hydro etc, but if you switched to organics you might be able to control the PM better...neem is a great systemic fighter of PM, the only other systemic I can think of is Green Cure, but that stuff is a pain and can burn leaves, pistils, etc. Might be worth the consideration, cause you'll be battling that PM forever until you figure out a way to fight it effectively...the spores are alllll over the building and aren't going anywhere anytime soon....


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## Snafu1236 (Jan 5, 2013)

Ah, I do not deal with clones, from anybody, ever. Never have. If anything , I dish out my clones to others, or they pay me for them.

I always grow from seed and select a lady from a variety of seeds. It is always organic, and I never have heat, bug or other issues in my grows.

How have I noticed neem hurt my soil web? 

1. The soil food web does not naturally ascertain a neem oil presence in its natural state. Even where neem oil exists, it is not actively present in the soil below. Why would one add it, unless you had a problem that neem could help with? But my question is, why do you have a problem in the first place if you did everything right?
2. Lockouts 
3. Reduced overall growth
4. Physical root disturbance. On a side by side analysis post neem aplpication of roots on a Vanilla Kush clone from Barney's Seeds, there was unmistakable root distrubance. It was almost like the outer cobweb-type layers were completely burnt off compared to the other clone that was not applied with neem. It was shocking when I first did that test actually.

Just my experience.

I do not know what you mean about covers? But I do typically mulch my top soil layer when I begin flowering.

And yeah, never had powdery mildew so I cannot really answer anything to do with that.

-Snafu


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## bongmarley7 (Jan 6, 2013)

Hey everyone!!! So my supersoil has been cooking for almost 9 weeks!!! My question is. should i throw it all back on the tarp and mix it up again before using? or can i take it straight out of the can im cooking it in?

Seeds: Ace of spade (TGA). Strawberry cough (Attitude seeds) and they gave me two feminized seeds a CH9? and then another on that says vintage 2006 jack. im going to pop them anyways of course lol. G13 x sour diesel. I am germinating these all at the same time then veg for 8 weeks under his 600wtt OR should i just stick with t5 48? After the veg i transplant them in 1/3 super soil topped with 3inches mixed base/super soil then top off the pot with base soil? CORRECT? just want to make sure i have the process down before i begin. 

I have 2 fire headband and two mast kush that i have LST to the core lol they look SO cool straight up looks like a huge bonzai tree!!!! soooo many shoots! BUT these 4 are ready to transplant. i am going to transplant into 10 gallon smart pots. 1/3 of the pot will be pure supersoil.the next few inches will be a mix of supersoil and base soil and the rest will be pure base soil......Please advise and your input is much appreciated =) jah love


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## greenghost420 (Feb 5, 2013)

can i use the general organics bio grow to suppliment nitrogen? i have a plant at 5 weeks that is yellowing up pretty fast. i hit her with calmag last night, strong dose but didnt slow progression. my other choice is top dressing with uncooked SS. could i top dress with low dose of bone meal?


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## Buddha's Botany (Mar 10, 2013)

Kalyx said:


> Danks guys. I am referring back to the silica question. Protekt and all other liquid silicas are full synth molecules yet many organic "purists", even Matt Rize and other uber snobs use the liquid silicas on their plants and still hype them as organic or veganic. I fully understand that these definitions are subjective for each gardener, *but to me synth products are out period. The woods do not use any synth so neither do I*.
> 
> IMO organic is like pregnant, you either are or aren't.
> 
> ...


Please don't take this as a pop shot at you...but how are you defining organic vs. inorganic gardening?

Because all organisms use and need all sorts of inorganic compounds to thrive and in order to get silica into your plant's organically you would be limited to a list of carbon bound Si sources like C8H10O2S when an inorganic compound like CaSiO3 might be just as or maybe even a more accessible (idk off the top of my head if it is or not but you get my point right?) and natural yet inorganic. Just like MgSO4 (epsom salt) is often accepted as an "organic" amendment but there isn't anything organic about it. 

 Or is growing "organically" just a matter of using naturally occurring substances instead of using compounds unacceptably over processed/refined/concentrated by human kind? Does it really matter as long as it doesn't disturb/damage the micro fauna in your grow medium and get's whatever organism you are growing what it needs to thrive without using any other potentially harmful binding agents/peservatives etc?


Like you said the definition of organic gardening is not exactly standardized....just trying to get a better feel for both other members and your views on what is and is not organic gardening with regard to soil building. 

OP thanks for the killer vid it's always really neat to see how other people do things.


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## backyardagain (Mar 29, 2013)

can i substitute the roots for pro mix? and would it achieve the same overall product in the end? i plan on doing my next run organics following this but not making that many bags maybe just with the one bag of promix maybe two. will be starting it in a smaller area and testing it to see if i like it better then having to always add nutrients.

i think im also going ot tune it down a little too so i can add either seedlings or transplant seedlings into it.


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## dirtyho1968 (Apr 3, 2013)

As far as powdery mildew goes, I have read a Lumperdawgz post on how he uses fungal dominant teas (as a foliar spray) to fight PM.
edit: I have not tried this as I use a dehumidifier and do not have this problem.


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## jbooley (Apr 12, 2013)

Just starting to get in to organic soil. I have been reading a lot on here and I don't post much and was looking just for a quick look at what I'm going to do. I'm going to use super soil and this is what i'm using in it. I was wondering about using the Ancient forest and the EWC together. I would like to use the Ancient Forest for teas if it is not needed in the soil. If it really helps i would leave it in. 

4 bags of roots 

3 cf of Coco (going to use only .5 to .75 cf)


30lbs of EWC


Ancient Forest


2.5 Alfalfa Meal: 2-1-2


2.5 Blood Meal: 13-0-0


2.5 Bone Meal: 3-15-0


2.5 Kelp Meal: .6-.5-2.5


2.5 bat guano 0-5-0


Azomite


Humic powder


dolomite lime


Epson salts


Earth Juice Rooters Mycorrhizae

Thanks JB


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## Cpt. Plant it (Apr 13, 2013)

jbooley said:


> Just starting to get in to organic soil. I have been reading a lot on here and I don't post much and was looking just for a quick look at what I'm going to do. I'm going to use super soil and this is what i'm using in it. I was wondering about using the Ancient forest and the EWC together. I would like to use the Ancient Forest for teas if it is not needed in the soil. If it really helps i would leave it in.
> 
> 4 bags of roots
> 
> ...



Sounds good to me, and you can use the ancient forest for tea.


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## jbooley (Apr 13, 2013)

Thank you for taking a look at it CPT plant it. Any and all advise is appreciated 

JB


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## shvantz (Apr 19, 2013)

Hey guys i have a meter to check the soil moisture scale from 0-10 1 being very dry 5 being moist and 10 being wet my super soil is around 8 on the scale, is this too much moisture in my mix? I have them covered in my closet the lids all have good condensation accumulating. If its too much moisture is there a way i can correct this? Thanks


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## Thegreatgatsby4 (Apr 19, 2013)

Can you re-use subs supersoils?


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## BrotherEsau (Jun 14, 2013)

are you guys all getting good results with subs soil mix? my brother was about to take a crack at it.


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## greenghost420 (Jun 14, 2013)

Awesome results! I cant wait to finish these bottled nutes and never going back...


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## Brotherdoses (Jun 15, 2013)

Ahh Yea, a super soil thread! Whats up y'all? I am new around here. I am doing my first super soil grow and its my second cannabis grow ever. Did it once 10 years ago. Now I am legal.


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## jbrown3 (Jun 28, 2013)

very strange that are initials are the same and are names on here are similar, and im basically using the same lineup of nutes as you, i had to bring that up hahaah


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## sincitygrowJB (Jul 7, 2013)

Hi guys I have a ???? I'm not that good with math lol!!! so need some help on how much of each ingredient to mix with my soil I have a list of my ingredient I have about 5lbs of each ingredient so thanks to who ever can help me out!!! JB 
6 bags of organic soil and 30lbs of EWC
Alfalfa Meal: 2-1-2
Blood Meal: 13-0-0
Bone Meal: 3-15-0
Kelp Meal: .6-.5-2.5
bat guano 0-5-0
Azomite
Humic powder
dolomite lime
Epson salts
Roots XL Mycorrhizae


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## DANKSWAG (Jul 7, 2013)

Buddha's Botany said:


> Please don't take this as a pop shot at you...but how are you defining organic vs. inorganic gardening?
> 
> Because all organisms use and need all sorts of inorganic compounds to thrive and in order to get silica into your plant's organically you would be limited to a list of carbon bound Si sources like C8H10O2S when an inorganic compound like CaSiO3 might be just as or maybe even a more accessible (idk off the top of my head if it is or not but you get my point right?) and natural yet inorganic. Just like MgSO4 (epsom salt) is often accepted as an "organic" amendment but there isn't anything organic about it.
> 
> ...


Good points....

SFM....Organic is as naturally occurring and healthy as I can readily obtain and conveniently utilize and prefer natural processes in regards to collection, consumption and disposal \ recycling of. However as noted inorganic material can be more accessible, be that environmentally as naturally occurring or unnaturally but nonetheless by product of utilization is unchanged then if natural organic material use inorganic material in a naturally occurring way. I am good with that.


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## TrichomeBob (Jul 8, 2013)

If a recipe says 500g of guano 0-5-0, how much guano of 1-10-1 should I use?
ppresuming 250g right?


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## sincitygrowJB (Jul 8, 2013)

TrichomeBob said:


> If a recipe says 500g of guano 0-5-0, how much guano of 1-10-1 should I use?
> ppresuming 250g right?


yea I can see what your saying but the recipe that I seen had 8 bags of soil i'm using 6 and the ingredient calls for you to use 5lbs of each ingredients so your saying just cut it in half or add a little more because I'm using 6 bags just wanted a little input thank u for your thoughts!!! JB


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## TrichomeBob (Jul 8, 2013)

Yh same sort of recipe, but ive just scaled it down, I don't need to make up that much, so basically it's just a quarter of everything, the NPK values confuse me though.

im still not sure on the guano, the recipe says use 0-5-0 guano, but onei can get is 1-10-1 , now doi only use half, or do I will use 500g


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## TrichomeBob (Jul 8, 2013)

sincitygrowJB said:


> yea I can see what your saying but the recipe that I seen had 8 bags of soil i'm using 6 and the ingredient calls for you to use 5lbs of each ingredients so your saying just cut it in half or add a little more because I'm using 6 bags just wanted a little input thank u for your thoughts!!! JB


If ur using six bags, ur making up 75% batch really, so just use 75% of all ingredients, if its says 5 pounds, use 3.75 pounds, u get me?

google side wings recipe on here, it's basically subs recipe but with a few more amendments and slightly less hot, the dude seems pretty knowledgable and started with subs recipe but just perfected over the grows, basically what sub tells U to do, but I can't be fucked to figure it out myself due to space issues so gonna copy, lol


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## TrichomeBob (Jul 8, 2013)

An easy thing for u to do is this, work out how many grams of each thing the recipe says, so 5 pounds is 2268g (google it), divide the 2268 by 100 = 22.68, then times by 75, which is 1701, so u need 1701grams.

just do that for everything and I will give u what's need for a 6 bag mix.

(8bag weight in grams) / 100 x 75 = (6bag weight in grams)
x 50 = (4bag weight in grams)
x 25 = (2bag weight in grams)


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## sincitygrowJB (Jul 8, 2013)

tell what you are using Bob 4 bags of soil 1 bag what?


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## sincitygrowJB (Jul 8, 2013)

thanks for the help bob!!! JB


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## sincitygrowJB (Jul 8, 2013)

let me know what you think!!!*6 bags oforganic soil and 30lbs of EWC**8 cupsAlfalfa Meal: 2-1-2**8 cups BloodMeal: 13-0-0** 8cups Bone Meal: 3-15-0*
* 8cups Kelp Meal: .6-.5-2.5*
* 8cups bat guano 0-5-0*
* ½cup Azomite*
*2 TBS Humic powder*
*1 cup dolomite lime*
*¾ cup Epson salts *
*3 oz Roots XL Mycorrhizae*


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## TrichomeBob (Jul 8, 2013)

sincitygrowJB said:


> let me know what you think!!!*6 bags oforganic soil and 30lbs of EWC**8 cupsAlfalfa Meal: 2-1-2**8 cups BloodMeal: 13-0-0** 8cups Bone Meal: 3-15-0*
> * 8cups Kelp Meal: .6-.5-2.5*
> * 8cups bat guano 0-5-0*
> * ½cup Azomite*
> ...


I reckon u need more azomite, and myco, and humicand maybe others, how many grams in a cup?


Look at my recipe above, you want 3 times that amount of stuff, so 600g of azomite, 150g alfalfa, 60g humic, 24g Epsom, 210g dolomite, 300g sea kelp, 1500g bone meal/guano/blood meal each, if I was making up a 6 bag batch, that's what I would use.


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## TrichomeBob (Jul 8, 2013)

In my mix for the Recipe I posted was only for 2 bags, our bags here are slightly bigger, in US, 2 bags is roughly 85 litres, here 2 bags is 100 litres.

if I could get it I would add Alaskan humus 200g to the 2 bag mix but can't get it here.

the reason I'm only making two bag mixes is that I'm still tryna find the best base soil, can't get roots, so I'm trying 3 types and running them to see which is best.


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## sincitygrowJB (Jul 8, 2013)

1 cup is 226 grams on google???


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## sincitygrowJB (Jul 11, 2013)

So mix the super soil up last night here's a few pics of what I used and I end up doing a 1/2 batch because I used the other two bags of soil to transplant but this is what I used let me know what u guys think!!! *½ Batch:Super Soil **
4 bags Dr.Earth Soil
25 lbs. Worm Castings
2.5 lbs Fish Bone Meal
2.5 lbs Bat Guano
2.5 lbs Blood Meal
2.5 lbs AlfalfaMeal  
2.5 lbs Kelp Meal 
1 cup Sweet (dolomite)Lime ½cup Epsom Salts ½ cup Azomite
1/2 cup Powdered HumicAcid*


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## TrichomeBob (Jul 11, 2013)

sincitygrowJB said:


> View attachment 2733057View attachment 2733058View attachment 2733060View attachment 2733061 So mix the super soil up last night here's a few pics of what I used and I end up doing a 1/2 batch because I used the other two bags of soil to transplant but this is what I used let me know what u guys think!!! *½ Batch:Super Soil **
> 4 bags Dr.Earth Soil
> 25 lbs. Worm Castings
> 2.5 lbs Fish Bone Meal
> ...


Thats a lot and I mean a lot of alfalfa, u need to be careful with that stuff as it has hormones that prevent flowering. If made up a 4 bag mix I would have used about 100g, u used over a kilo!!!!

i dunno what to say, someone with more info should give some advice, but I'd be wary in using that mix now!

i would have put more azomite in too, and less epsoms and kelp. Where did get that recipe from?


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## sincitygrowJB (Jul 12, 2013)

Well all I can do is add another bag of soil and see what happens u live and learn by trial and errors my men and this is my own off the fly recipe because if 8 bags calls for 5lbs I just cut it in half!!! JB


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## murdergrow (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah that does seem like a lot of alfalfa. in sub's most recent recipe he threw in only 2 cups of alfalfa meal for a full batch. im also pretty sure that alfalfa is not as time released as some of the other amendments, ie it is available to your plants a lot faster so it may induce burn. there are lots of threads relating to sub's supersoil and modified versions with the creators experiences so i would recommend reading those through in their entirety. good luck with everything though!


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## greenghost420 (Jul 14, 2013)

where can i find the most recent recipe?


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## SHvisitor (Jul 19, 2013)

greenghost420 said:


> where can i find the most recent recipe?


The school of Dank on youtube is one of the latest, otherwise have a look at "sidewing modified recipe" on subs forum, pretty dope recipe.


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## jbrown3 (Jul 28, 2013)

how can i get some super soil shipped to me, what website? i'd like to give it a try


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## jbrown3 (Jul 28, 2013)

anyone? need some info on it


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## sincitygrowJB (Jul 28, 2013)

it all about where u live are trying to get TGA SS??? or make it yourself???


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## sincitygrowJB (Jul 28, 2013)

If u are trying to get TGA SS??? go to there web site look for vendor or go to your local hydro shop and ask them if they can get some in for you!!! JB


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## jbrown3 (Jul 29, 2013)

thanks man, i ended up finding out about the charge packs they sell so i just went with one of those. It calls for 15 Cf of base soil and 50-60L of ewc, Thats a shit ton!


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## beuffer420 (Jul 29, 2013)

I just mixed that stuff up two days ago gonna give it a shot myself.


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## robro (Jul 31, 2013)

I am in the process of getting all ingredients for super soil.I have Mycorhizal fungi,but not sure when to add it.
It says on the bag to sprinkle in the bottom of the planting hole,but i`m sure ive read in this thread to add it to 
the mix to cook. Will this stuff start growing in the mix when cooking,and get damaged when turning soil over 
to aeriate it,or does it not matter bout that?


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## DANKSWAG (Jul 31, 2013)

Following sung to Macklemore's Thrift Shop...

I'm gonna germ some seeds, I only got twenty dollars in my pocket.. I'm a I'm a hunting looking for some "dank beans" dis is freaking Awesome... I grow dank bud at home, in Subcool's Supersoil, a bad ass recipe, its good to go!​


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## Rrog (Aug 2, 2013)

If anyone's interested in a better soil with much better cost savings MIX YOUR OWN. Then RECYCLE IT. Throwing away dirt is not necessary. 

Base Soil

1/3 Sphagnum Peat from Premier Peat or Alaska Peat
1/3 Aeration material (pumice and lava rock)
1/3 EWC

Per Cubic Foot of the Base Soil:

3 cup Charcoal (activated)
4 cups Rock Powders (4X Glacial, 1X Bentonite, 1X Oyster Shell, 1X Basalt)

1/2 Cup Neem Meal (2 g / L)
1/2 Cup Crab Shell Meal
2 Cups Kelp Meal 
2 Cups Fish Meal
2 Cups Fish Bone Meal
1 Cup Sul-Po-Mag
1/2 Cup Alfalfa

1/2 cup this 3 part lime mix:

1 part powdered dolomite lime
1 part agricultural gypsum
2 parts powdered oyster shell


1 cubic foot = 7.5 gallons.

Moisten with Fresh Aloe (2 Tbs Juice with 1 gallon water) and Accelerant Tea (Comfrey, Yarrow, Horsetail or Nettle) 

I pre-inoculate with BTI and Nematodes.


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## st0wandgrow (Aug 2, 2013)

Rrog said:


> If anyone's interested in a better soil with much better cost savings *MIX YOUR OWN. Then RECYCLE IT. Throwing away dirt is not necessary.
> *
> Base Soil
> 
> ...


That! 

I won't comment on what soil mix is best (because I don't know), but I do know that recycling your soil is key. It gets better in subsequent runs.


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## greenghost420 (Aug 2, 2013)

iv been tuning my recyled soil, shits getting good


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## Rrog (Aug 3, 2013)

It's amazing how the soil gets better. Guys like Gascanastan get 12+ cycles from soil. Insane grows, that man.


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## hyroot (Aug 3, 2013)

I'm starting round 4 for rols pretty soon... just topdressed pots last week with compost and ewc watered twice so far with teas. Probably another week or 2 til roots are broken down and ready to be transplanted into. Recycling soil. Lowers the amount of work. No need for stock piling soil mixes. Plants love the recycled soil much more than new soil.....


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## Rrog (Aug 3, 2013)

Speak it, brother


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## greenghost420 (Aug 3, 2013)

whats rols? lol im sure its simple too lol


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## Rrog (Aug 3, 2013)

"Real Organic Living Soil" Basically a planned no-till. No dumping and re-mixing. Instead, add amendments like worm compost as the plant grows, keeping the nutrient levels sufficient for the next plant. 

You leave the complex microbe web in tact by not dumping. Take advantage of that when the next plant is plopped in, hopefully immediately after chop. The web will sense the new roots, plug in, and use the old root system as food, rapidly and actively decomposing and storing.


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## greenghost420 (Aug 3, 2013)

ah yes RLOS! im liking it! i let my last batch of soil dry out a lil too much, last night watered down with some great white and tarantula with lil sensizyme. makes awesome roots!


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## hyroot (Aug 3, 2013)

Recycled organic living soil


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## Rrog (Aug 3, 2013)

I'd like to avoid bottles these days. You can make better sources of good supplements. If you wanted. Not as convenient as bottles materials. Not as expensive, though. That's a plus.


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## greenghost420 (Aug 3, 2013)

it seems like alot of places just sell brewed teas lol


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## hyroot (Aug 3, 2013)

Buy my compost tea. Clearance sale. Everything must go..... Lol


Warning tea is only good for a few hours.....lol


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## Rrog (Aug 4, 2013)

greenghost420 said:


> it seems like alot of places just sell brewed teas lol


Yep but you don't need to use more than a little bubbler for that barley tea.


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## PeaceLoveCannabis (Aug 4, 2013)

Do you have to bubble barley tea? If i left the lid off and refilled the water daily untill i get a root about the same size as the seed, is tht okay? I did notice a bit of smell. But it wasn't really bad.


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## Rrog (Aug 4, 2013)

Without the bubbler it get's a little anaerobic. No biggie, but generally better to keep aerobic. Most important is to watch the timetable in the recipe. The first water needs to be dumped because it has growth inhibitors.


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## PeaceLoveCannabis (Aug 4, 2013)

Yeah I read that, and I hope other people see this. The first wash has growth inhibitors.. Which means it will slow growth, the reason is most likely due to preservation of the seed.


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## hyroot (Aug 4, 2013)

Rrog. Theres no inhibitors with barley flour right? Been using that. Got a bunch for $10 when that was all the rage a couple months ago.


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## Rrog (Aug 4, 2013)

You mean Diastatic Malt? Make this: 

Diastatic Malt is powder very commonly used in brewing and baking, it offers the some of the same enzyme potential.

Order it online - "malted barley flour" a.k.a. diastatic malt powder for pretty cheap. Amazon has lots.

1 TBS/gal application rate. 

1TBS/gal once a week, just mix and go (along w/ aloe, agsil, and ful-power). No need to soak to activate.

Another Coot recommendation.


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## hyroot (Aug 4, 2013)

Rrog said:


> You mean Diastatic Malt? Make this:
> 
> Diastatic Malt is powder very commonly used in brewing and baking, it offers the some of the same enzyme potential.
> 
> ...



Yeah that. But Ive been aerating it . I guess I.don't have to anymore. I just add fresh aloe too. I.do compost teas for other watering.


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## Rrog (Aug 4, 2013)

Don't get me wrong. I grew several times with SS. Had to stop throwing it away, though, so I changed my game is all.


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## robro (Aug 8, 2013)

robro said:


> I am in the process of getting all ingredients for super soil.I have Mycorhizal fungi,but not sure when to add it.
> It says on the bag to sprinkle in the bottom of the planting hole,but i`m sure ive read in this thread to add it to
> the mix to cook. Will this stuff start growing in the mix when cooking,and get damaged when turning soil over
> to aeriate it,or does it not matter bout that?


Found the answer.Thanks for all the help,no need to rush to my aid anymore.


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## greenghost420 (Aug 8, 2013)

lol i meant to answer that too! add it to cook, dont worry bout turning it over the myco will be fine. i find myself adding it to everything and cant do any wrong


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## robro (Aug 9, 2013)

thanx for reply greenghost,i read on RIU somewhere that humic acid kills myco if added at the same time,can you verify this for me plz.


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## greenghost420 (Aug 9, 2013)

that i have no clue!


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## Rrog (Aug 9, 2013)

Fulvic and humic acids are in good compost, and that's a completely harmless delivery system.


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## greenghost420 (Aug 9, 2013)

i figured it didnt kill myco but i couldnt make that statement...lol now i can!


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## Rrog (Aug 9, 2013)

Well it might by itself, I dunno. A lot of compounds if isolated from their natural environment can be hazardous. So when Humic and Fulvic acids are extracted and isolated, they may have an implied warning. I dunno. I'm just saying that if the Humic and Fulvic Acids are part of the compost, as they're supposed to be, then they're delivered harmlessly.


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## greenghost420 (Aug 9, 2013)

yea moderation.....right? lol


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## Rrog (Aug 9, 2013)

Exactly! I mean, that's it for everything. 

And I will make another shameless plug for everyone to make their own VC!!! If you're growing soil- it's the best thing possible. Much deeper relationship with the plant than any bottled fert could ever have. Save cash, hire worms...


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## greenghost420 (Aug 9, 2013)

my next purchase will be a wormbin, i showed my girl and shes like are you fuckin serious..i had a huge grin as she wasnt so pleased. but everyone should def make their own vermicompost!


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## robro (Aug 9, 2013)

thanx again for replying lads.i have peat in my potting compost that i used in my SS.theres humic/fulvic acid in that,is there not?


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## Rrog (Aug 9, 2013)

Green- that's funny!! This will not smell. Funny that way. I thought it would. And they stay put unless you force them to flee for their lives because they dried up. I never had one leave. You feed them your garbage. That's free. After that, you feed them more garbage. That's free, too. Then kelp, meals, mineral powders, pennies worth of each. And for your troubles? Lab proven, farmer-beleivin' best thing you could put on a plant. Best. And the cost? Aside from a little bin (guys make their own daily) just the pennies on the amendments. So almost free. 

The best for just about free.


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## greenghost420 (Aug 9, 2013)

i may just make my own. been thinking about it for awhile now! depends how lazy i get lol


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## Rrog (Aug 9, 2013)

It's too easy! It's a lazy man's hobby. 

And if you need it to stink to really P/O the GF, well, I dunno. I don't think we can do that...


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## greenghost420 (Aug 9, 2013)

nahhhhhhhh dont need the stink...lol


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## DANKSWAG (Aug 9, 2013)

greenghost420 said:


> i figured it didnt kill myco but i couldnt make that statement...lol now i can!


Adding liquid nutrients especially those high in P will quickly kill myco's. Also high levels of dry nutrients can alter the PH balance of the soil destroying bacteria.

Also when cooking soil such as SS it will kill any myco's they need to be added back in once soil is settled. But add only just prior with soluble type to initially introduce them to the soil then just before transplant sprinkle granular where the roots will come into contact. Myco will die out if they can not find roots plant life to bond with once activated.

Myco's are essential especially for getting much need phosphorous to the plant for big roots and fruits!


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## robro (Aug 10, 2013)

DANKSWAG said:


> Adding liquid nutrients especially those high in P will quickly kill myco's. Also high levels of dry nutrients can alter the PH balance of the soil destroying bacteria.
> Also when cooking soil such as SS it will kill any myco's they need to be added back in once soil is settled. But add only just prior will soluble type to initially introduce them to soil then just before transplant sprinkle granular where the roots will come into contact. Myco will die out if they can not find roots plant lifeto bond with once activated.
> 
> Myco's are essential especially for getting much need phosphorous to the plant for big roots and fruits!


thanx DANKS,ive got my soil mixed and cooking for a week,it will be another 7 weeks before i need to use it,
so everything should be nicely cooked by then.I will add mycos into bottom of planting hole when i transplant.


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## Rrog (Aug 10, 2013)

The soil temps are not reaching thermophilic levels. The microbes don't get cooked. Actually during the 4-5 weeks the microbes are very much alive storing all the raw nutes. THat's why before 5 weeks it can be hot. The microbes aren't done yet.


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## greenghost420 (Aug 10, 2013)

i opened a tote of soil thats been chillin for like 2 months i think lol not sure how long but theres this layer of white yellow moss on top, should i mix it in or scrape it off? i need pics or it didnt happen? lol


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## Rrog (Aug 10, 2013)

No, that's good myco. What's it smell like? Is it moist or dry?


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## greenghost420 (Aug 10, 2013)

its moist with almost no smell, slightly mossy maybe mushroomy smell. i havent turned it yet, hoping no anaerobic action underneath. ill be pissed! ill get a pic up real quick, give me 5 min


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## Rrog (Aug 10, 2013)

Sounds perfect. So when you take a fistful and compress it, open your hand you should have a ball of soil. Touch / tap the ball and it crumbles. Just enough moisture to do that is perfect for this composting period.


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## greenghost420 (Aug 10, 2013)

stuck my hand to the bottom, no bad ammonia of mildew funk


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## Rrog (Aug 10, 2013)

... never saw that before... Did you pre-inoculate with some super-myco mix?


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## greenghost420 (Aug 10, 2013)

damn, was hoping youd say aw yea thats the shit! lol i cant remember if i threw in some great white, generally when i store soil i mix in great white and water lightly with piranha and tarantula and sensizyme, just moist not wet. i know im looking for a web but this was new lol, looks like white moss...


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## Rrog (Aug 10, 2013)

In the pics it looks like greed bread mold. Doesn't look like that, does it?


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## greenghost420 (Aug 10, 2013)

no doesnt smell like it either. it has a definite moss smell to it, im wondering if it has some light if it would be green instead of white lol


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## Rrog (Aug 10, 2013)

This had a lid on it, right? Not in the direct light? 

It's good that it looks and smells OK. Generally you can tell if something's not cool. You could always scrape off.

It's common and good to have a light white blanket on the top of the soil when you open it, especially after the first week. But that looks like a quality carpet. And green at least on my monitor.

Of course if you think it really is a moss, then let it get some light. See what happens. Nothing bad, that's for sure.


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## greenghost420 (Aug 10, 2013)

ha it seems carpet like too! im almost too lazy to scrape it off lol almost... have you composted moss before? lol


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## greenghost420 (Aug 10, 2013)

shouldnt look green though, its got a yellow hue


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## Someacdude (Aug 30, 2013)

How long should i leave it covered up and should i add some water, mines been sealed for a week and there is no heat at all???


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## Rrog (Aug 30, 2013)

Take a hand full. Squeeze it. If it stays as a little ball, good. Next tap the soil ball. If it crumbles, then that's perfect moisture. You can always add water. You can always stir. Should smell good. Get a little Neem and Crab to help with the larvae while the soil cooks.


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## May11th (Sep 3, 2013)

Just started making supersoil w coco, cant wait for my blueberries to drop in it . I been running coco and fox farms, I been organic and I usually have to feed w every watering, I use up about 50 galons of water every watering cycle now.i been using teas with success but I want to further my horizons and see what kind of yield ill have now. Been averaging 4 oz per plant w mediocre strains, no knockouts so far but deff great smoke but im only looking for the best and out of 200+ plant's I haven't found 1 keeper.


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## DANKSWAG (Oct 31, 2013)

Rrog said:


> "Real Organic Living Soil" Basically a planned no-till. No dumping and re-mixing. Instead, add amendments like worm compost as the plant grows, keeping the nutrient levels sufficient for the next plant.
> 
> You leave the complex microbe web in tact by not dumping. Take advantage of that when the next plant is plopped in, hopefully immediately after chop. The web will sense the new roots, plug in, and use the old root system as food, rapidly and actively decomposing and storing.


Rrog,

I get it, this allows as time progresses a build up naturally but maybe not just in numbers per say but development. I bet this method will work excellent where as I can add my bokashi compost once ready as a top dress to existing living soil so it can have nutrients ready that friendly bacteria can work into the web as well. This shall be a beautiful thing my friend I can't wait to use bokashi compost and tea for my ROLS.

Thanks again.


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## DANKSWAG (Nov 5, 2013)

This is what I got without ROLS but using and organic soil similar to subs supersoil but more in it especially microbes.

Can't wait to see what happens using ROLS...

So I am going to prepare the soil this was in for a ROLS grow. My Understanding I need to remove plant set cloth pots aside and amend with EWC and Teas then plant back into cloth pot being careful not to distrupt to much the soil web when transplanting in new ones and add mycro's to roots during transplant and let it do its thing and grow?


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## anzohaze (Nov 6, 2013)

I have had my super soil cooking for almost 3 weeks now in a 55 gal drum and I have not seen any white fuzz or anything of sort. It smells reall earthy. Its warm to the touch. I do not see any white fungi or such is it ok not to see it or shoukd I spread on tarp and add more mychorrizae or how ever itd spelt


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## mrblu (Nov 6, 2013)

how does one cook their soil in the wintertime? just put it in a drum in the grow room?


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## DANKSWAG (Nov 7, 2013)

mrblu said:


> how does one cook their soil in the wintertime? just put it in a drum in the grow room?


mrblu yeppers affirmitive


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 7, 2013)

DANKSWAG said:


> This is what I got without ROLS but using and organic soil similar to subs supersoil but more in it especially microbes.
> 
> Can't wait to see what happens using ROLS...
> 
> So I am going to prepare the soil this was in for a ROLS grow. My Understanding I need to remove plant set cloth pots aside and amend with EWC and Teas then plant back into cloth pot being careful not to distrupt to much the soil web when transplanting in new ones and add mycro's to roots during transplant and let it do its thing and grow?



Nice looking buds bro!

You would also benefit from planting a cover crop on your pots while they're sitting. A lot of people use clover for this. It will fix atmospheric nitrogen, and keep the upper layer of soil active/alive. I want to transition to 3x6 geo-pot garden beds. I bet I could run that soil for 12-18 months with nothing more than a cover crop, mulching and top-dressing.


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## DANKSWAG (Nov 7, 2013)

Stowngrow...

Thanks man, you know I appreciate that greatly. 

I really enjoy what I gleam from this thread compared to some others. There are some grow journal threads out there that have real narcissistic characters posting to a cultish group. 

Anywise I am grateful for your feedback. It holds more weight from sincere folks as you who just want to everyone to enjoy the wonderful organic ways we can interact and enhance the health of our plants. Its a win win for everyone from a healthier planet and gardens to making it easier to care for and afford to have them and enjoy them to the fullest that only organic gardening can bring in aroma, taste and flavors. 

Anywise it is good to be part of a kindred spirit that promotes sharing our experiences which is especially important for comparing and attempting to duplicate or avoid certain outcomes. 

What cover crop would you recommend? I have access to feed stores, farming community and indoor grow shops as well, so something easy to obtain and gets the job done works for me.

So know that I have completed my harvest, for ROLS how much of the main stem and its roots do I remove from my cloth pots?
For ROLS I should be taking these cloths pots now and transplant new clones into them add some additional fungi mychros to the area in the soil where transplanted roots will come into contact with. Then I should feed next watering with 1tbs molasses to gallon water. After two weeks then introduce beneficial bacteria so the fungi mychros will have had a chance to fortify there relationship with the root system?

Anywise that is the tack I am taking unless given reason to add/change anything? 

DankSwag
Grow On My Friends Grow On!


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 8, 2013)

DANK,

I would do the following:

Cut your current plant off at the base of soil, trying to remove most of the "trunk" from the rootball. Leave the rootball undisturbed in your container. Next mix up a mulch to lay down right on top of your soil. A good mulch would consist of ewc (home made is best if you have a worm bin) along with a good dynamic accumulator such as comfrey, nettle, yarrow, etc. If you have something like comfrey just dry the leaves out, and crumble them up a bit. I would also add some aeration material to that so that your container doesn't get too muddy. Rice hulls are a good option for this. You should also re-amend your soil with some organic granules such as kelp meal, alfalfa, and/or an all purpose granule like one of Espomas "Tone" products. Aproximately half the amount of organic inputs that you originally used to amend that amount of soil with. Once your mulch is prepared, broadcast some clover seeds in the mulch mix, and then add a blanket of bark chips on the very top (optional, but recommended). This will keep the soil moist and alive beneath it, and reduce the amount of times you have to wet down the container. Using an ACT to wet it down with is a good idea, imo. 

At this point your container is ready to sit for the requisite amount of time. I would leave the container in your flower room, but off to the side or at the perimeter of your current mj plants that are under your light. This will give the clover some indirect light, but not take up any room directly under your light. Letting it sit like this will allow the microbes in the soil to begin breaking down the rootball. I would leave it be for a period of 30-60 days. At that point you will have a nice layer of clover that you can "chop and drop" .... meaning that you cut the clover down, but leave it on the surface of the soil. This clover will act as another layer of mulch when you add your next mj plant to the container. There will be a ton of micro-life near the surface due to the ewc/bio-acumulator/organic ammendments/mulch that you laid down. Now just dig down a bit and create a pocket/hole for your mj plant to be placed in, and situate the mulch back around the base of your new plant. Done deal! Water and proceed as usual.


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## DANKSWAG (Nov 9, 2013)

Rrog said:


> Exactly! I mean, that's it for everything.
> 
> And I will make another shameless plug for everyone to make their own VC!!! If you're growing soil- it's the best thing possible. Much deeper relationship with the plant than any bottled fert could ever have. Save cash, hire worms...


Hi Rrog,

I think I found the solution for my failing above ground worm bin.... 

PRESENTING BUNKER VERMI COMPOSTING!

DankSwag


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## DANKSWAG (Nov 9, 2013)

Rrog said:


> The soil temps are not reaching thermophilic levels. The microbes don't get cooked. Actually during the 4-5 weeks the microbes are very much alive storing all the raw nutes. THat's why before 5 weeks it can be hot. The microbes aren't done yet.


Hey Rrog, 

Can you help me clarify something here. I agree with you bacteria microbes are doing there work are not getting cooked. 
However what I have read about myco fungi is a different matter when it comes to cooking soil. One point is without plant roots to form a relationship with they will die and second raw liquid nutrients high in Phosphorous will kill off fungi as well, and finally 3rd I believe wrong PH will kill them as well. 

So is that how you understand what can effect the life of fungi in the soil? 
If so it means that perhaps phosphorus amendments should be focused more on slow release? 

Appreciate your input just want to ensure I am correctly informed on the matter.

DankSwag
Grow On My Friends Grow On.


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## DANKSWAG (Nov 10, 2013)

anzohaze said:


> I have had my super soil cooking for almost 3 weeks now in a 55 gal drum and I have not seen any white fuzz or anything of sort. It smells reall earthy. Its warm to the touch. I do not see any white fungi or such is it ok not to see it or shoukd I spread on tarp and add more mychorrizae or how ever itd spelt


What is the temperature of the room it is in? Is it moist? Out of sunlight? Covered light so air has access? These are important for that bacterial growth. UV KILLS, Cold temps lack of H20 -sans chloride and oxygen is needed. 

If you have purchased mycho's I would hold them till transplant then add at that time. Then use a soluable about 3 weeks later to reapply. 

As the other folks here such use stinging nettle, comfrey? Teas to aid in what is taking place in the soil web. I still am learning about these teas.
Mostly how to source materials for use for I have made teas before.

DankSwag
Grow On My Friends Grow On


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## DANKSWAG (Nov 10, 2013)

Hey Stowngrow,

Question for you... 

It seems Rrog suggests using the containers almost immediately after chop to take advantage of the existing mycho's?
Whereas you provided details on further preparing, can you explain perhaps the difference in approach to ROLS?
Thanks
DankSwag



_




Originally Posted by *Rrog* 
"Real Organic Living Soil" Basically a planned no-till. No dumping and re-mixing. Instead, add amendments like worm compost as the plant grows, keeping the nutrient levels sufficient for the next plant. 

You leave the complex microbe web in tact by not dumping. Take advantage of that when the next plant is plopped in, hopefully immediately after chop. The web will sense the new roots, plug in, and use the old root system as food, rapidly and actively decomposing and storing.

_
​


----------



## headtreep (Nov 10, 2013)

ROL or LOS as some call it these days is catching on quite nice. I felt obligated to get back here and assist. It heals me.


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 10, 2013)

DANKSWAG said:


> Hey Stowngrow,
> 
> Question for you...
> 
> ...



You can go about it either way. The cover crop (clover) will send roots down and keep the soil food web active and functioning if you choose to leave the pots fallow for a period of time. I am opting for this because my containers are on the small side of things for a no-till set up so in my mind at least I want some of the prior root ball consumed before putting another mj plant in there. Also I want to allow some time for the newly applied organic inputs to be broken down so that they are bio-available when my plant goes in there. You can always apply more mycorrhizae to the root zone when you transplant as well. I would try both and see what works best for you. I would suspect that you will get good results either way.

If Rrog and I give conflicting advice, it's never a bad idea to assume that Rrog is correct. I try not to spout off if I don't know what I'm talking about, but you can take what Rrog says to the bank every time.


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## DANKSWAG (Nov 10, 2013)

Concerning Clover is something I can transplant from my yard into my pots? Is there seed for clover?


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 10, 2013)

DANKSWAG said:


> Concerning Clover is something I can transplant from my yard into my pots? Is there seed for clover?


Not sure about transplanting clover from your yard.

Here's a site that some people order from .... http://www.fedcoseeds.com/ogs.htm


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## Brokeoldbloke (Nov 14, 2013)

Wow indoor cover crops, no-till cannabis gardens? Pretty cool. If you use sweet clover as a cover you might want to get a inoculant. It will help pull N from the air into the soil. I've used http://www.groworganic.com/ in the past for cover crop seeds.


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## Silky Shagsalot (Dec 7, 2013)

there's gotta be a better video/source of info. on his recipe than that video. he doesn't reall go into much detail on amounts etc. and not everyone needs a trailer full. the super secret ingredient, hummm. i remember long ago i asked him about the mix, i i wonder if the secret isn't fritted trace elements.....


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## zest (Dec 12, 2013)

Hi guys, long time lurker 1st time posting. I was wondering if you guys could give me some adivce. I plan on running my first outdoor/greenhouse grow and need some help with this super soild. Not so much an understanding of it but more of an idea on how about getting it and making it. I plan on running 25-30 plants in 200 gallon smart pots (maybe even 100g) and if I do so I will need about 6000 gallons of SS. What is the best way do you think I should go about gettin this much? should I go out and make it or can i order it up from TGA? I dont really have a problem with making it except I have no where to store it and let it "cook" because of the wether conditions im goin to face months leading up to summer. Any advice would help. Thanks


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## CaptainCAVEMAN (Dec 12, 2013)

^


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## Someacdude (Dec 12, 2013)

zest said:


> Hi guys, long time lurker 1st time posting. I was wondering if you guys could give me some adivce. I plan on running my first outdoor/greenhouse grow and need some help with this super soild. Not so much an understanding of it but more of an idea on how about getting it and making it. I plan on running 25-30 plants in 200 gallon smart pots (maybe even 100g) and if I do so I will need about 6000 gallons of SS. What is the best way do you think I should go about gettin this much? should I go out and make it or can i order it up from TGA? I dont really have a problem with making it except I have no where to store it and let it "cook" because of the wether conditions im goin to face months leading up to summer. Any advice would help. Thanks


If you follow the recipie, do some research and add some other things pre mixed cant touch this stuff, neither can hydro. Check out the soil threads, buy a couple cheap plastic garbage cans and rock on, dont over think it brother, all the work has been done except mixing it.


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## DANKSWAG (Dec 12, 2013)

Stowngrow,

Going back and reading your post to me... have some follow up questions if you don't mind.

Can explain what these are in relationship to how you described them as "a good dynamic accumulator" to be added to my mulch?

I am up on the rice hulls for aeration however I learned something recently and the science makes since. Rice hulls are a carbon, if one is to add a 1/3 carbon to their soil mix whereas the other 2/3 are peat moss and humus \ compost. This 1/3 aeration is a source of food for our soil web and will be consumed ultimately in the process of doing soil nitrogen will be depleted from the soil in the process. I am told to prevent this one must SOAK the rice hulls in a high nitrogen source to ensure that nitrogen deficiencies will not occur. It was suggested to me to use fish hyrdosilte or alpha meal. Do you soak yours? Have you seen nitrogen deficiencies where you may not have using perlite? Don't get me wrong the perlite is on its way out. I did pick up a bag of pumice medium #2. My pots will be a little heavier unless I go with 70\30 rice hull to pumice mix.

I've got alpha, kelp, crab meal and oyster shell, I also have basalt, greensand and humic acid. I can get glacier dust if need be. 
Concerning the clover seed anything in particular? I will be ordering from here...http://www.outsidepride.com/seed/clover-seed/

Anywise I am on board with all this, will be creating documenting journal to share....

Thanks,
DankSwag


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## Dr. Treez84 (Dec 13, 2013)

*

It says to not put clones straight into super soil but what if I'm getting teens and then vegging them for another 2 months is top soil before their placed in the super soil. So essentially they'll be vegged for 3-4 months before they go outside on may 1st? Can i put them into straight SS or still only fill half of the container?​




*


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## DANKSWAG (Dec 13, 2013)

Dr. Treez84 said:


> *
> 
> It says to not put clones straight into super soil but what if I'm getting teens and then vegging them for another 2 months is top soil before their placed in the super soil. So essentially they'll be vegged for 3-4 months before they go outside on may 1st? Can i put them into straight SS or still only fill half of the container?​
> 
> ...


When transplanting, fill bottom half with SS, add mycro's (great white or anything you have) to soil where roots will come into contact. Use organic potting soil such as roots or black gold to fill the upper half. If you have some EWC top dress with that and water.

Only young plants such as clones and seedlings in their first weeks of establishing root growth should be left out of SS. Once they have established at last three good node sets of leaves and about 6 to 8 inches should be established enough to be transplanted to pot with SS on bottom half and normal organic potting soil on the top.

DankSwag


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## Fangule (Dec 13, 2013)

*Hey all I got a question. I'm very limited so please bare with me. What ratio do you mix manure/compost to potting soil? I got this  and Vigoro potting soil. I appreciate any input. 

*Update Another thing is manure/compost hot by itself. The reason I'm asking is that I have clones also 3 females in 2 week of bloom that need to be trans planted ASAP, (they must be root bound). *


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## Someacdude (Dec 15, 2013)

What he said,,,,,veg them right , then i put peat around the root ball and worried , in days the roots where popping out of the bottom of the pot.


DANKSWAG said:


> When transplanting, fill bottom half with SS, add mycro's (great white or anything you have) to soil where roots will come into contact. Use organic potting soil such as roots or black gold to fill the upper half. If you have some EWC top dress with that and water.
> 
> Only young plants such as clones and seedlings in their first weeks of establishing root growth should be left out of SS. Once they have established at last three good node sets of leaves and about 6 to 8 inches should be established enough to be transplanted to pot with SS on bottom half and normal organic potting soil on the top.
> 
> DankSwag


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## Mr.J420 (Dec 28, 2013)

Hey guys, How big are those bags of soil? 70L? 18Gal? Trying to scale this down.


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## Someacdude (Dec 31, 2013)

Mr.J420 said:


> Hey guys, How big are those bags of soil? 70L? 18Gal? Trying to scale this down.


Gonna have to narrow that down a bit, what soil? Super soil is a mix you do yourself , so you can make as much as you need. Two 30 gallon garbage cans went really fast.


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## dawglover711 (Jan 4, 2014)

Cow manure isn't recommended by Sub is it? I have been amending with more of my own vermicompost , kelp, alfalfa, oyster shell, rock dust and neem seed meal. I also believe that you should blend in the carefully measured SS in the whole container. I do not use as much SS this way and I also feed the plants one time per week with worm compost tea. 500 ppm in veg and 850 ppm in flower for my Chemdog strains.


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## imageek (Jan 7, 2014)

Ok, i just want to get some clarification. I have read through the thread and the only question i have using this soil is i have babies that are already well established in 1 gallon buckets that need to be transplanted. They are all at a minimum of 6 inches tall and most taller already. Very well established rootballs on them. When transplanting i plan on vegging for a couple of weeks. How much supersoil to regular soil should i be putting my buckets? Still half and half?


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## indonesia (Mar 6, 2014)

subs recipe is awesome!! ive heard some people had not so great results. somewhat strain specific but ive only produced the best with that recipe


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## Blazedandconfused710 (Mar 13, 2014)

what nutrient solution do you use with your soil?


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## farsb (Apr 11, 2014)

No nutrient lines. Ocassionally I water with an aact or a nutrient tea if I see a deficiency before the last 2 weeks of flowering.


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## greengoblin2014 (Apr 30, 2014)

I have some super soil cooking now and I'm vegging in 3 litre air pots with young 5 day seedlings. Question is should I be ph'ing my water before i transplant into super soil pots?? Also can i use some organic root nutes? I have critical kush and the stems are purple and have heard it's PH problem, deficiency or genetic.. I've seen pics of this strains seedlings and they are green.. I've been watering with unph'd water is this the reason? What do you guys do to keep plants healthy before transplanting? When do you transplant? I was going to wait until the 3 litre is full of roots but not sure how long that will take? And I'm finishing in 20 litre air pots with super soil..


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## headtreep (May 11, 2014)

Check out https://www.rollitup.org/t/recycled-organic-living-soil-rols-and-no-till-thread.636057/ 

I went the whole super soil route and it's a waste of money and time let alone back breaking work.


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## KLITE (May 13, 2014)

> I went the whole super soil route and it's a waste of money and time let alone back breaking work.


Why throw away all that perfectly good soil? Reuse reduce recycle


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## Shaggzendo (Jun 22, 2014)

everyone I'd making the half recipe version its funny, gotta ig and you'll see twice the amendments, I made the light version and it sucked but the full recipe is decent, I still prefer happy frog just BC its easier to mimic the supersoil with simple products that essentially the same except they're added later on


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## cannakis (Aug 21, 2014)

bongmarley7 said:


> I am going to make a large amount of Subs SuperSoil. 1250gallons to be exact. I made one batch with these ingredients and filled 3 3/4x32gallon trashcans (124gal but we will round up to 125gal). 50lb worm casting5lb steamed bone meal5lb bat guano5lb blood meal 3lb rock phosphate3/4 cup epsom salt1 cup sweet lime (dolomite)1/2 cup azomite2tbs powedered humic acid8 bags roots organic2 bags perlite (12quart size bags)2 bags cocoThis gave me 125gallons of soil. I want to create enough soil for to last me a perpetual harvest. Schedule:Example. I want to cut 16 clones and harvest 16 plants every 2 weeks. I need help figuring this out, i think i have it figured out but advice on scheduling would be nice. im allowed up to 72plants but would like to base my PHarvest off 64 that way i have a safety zone to play with mothers etc...back to the mass amount of super soil, i did the math and this is what ive come up with:530lbs worm castings50lbs bone meal50lbs bat guano50lbs blood meal30lbs rock phosphate 5 3/4 cups epsom salt10 cups dolomite lime 3,5 cups azomite20 tbs powdered humic acid240 bags roots organic ( i will order by the pallet)26 bag coco14 bag perliteThis should make roughly 1250 gallons of supersoil. this ought to last me a year....i hope. what do you think fellow friends


so hows your perpetual fortnight harvests coming along? i had been and now going to.keep doing that same thing. i was doing 12/12 from seed now mothers and clones. do you have fortnight harvests or do you have to wait sometimes?


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## cannakis (Aug 21, 2014)

headtreep said:


> Check out https://www.rollitup.org/t/recycled-organic-living-soil-rols-and-no-till-thread.636057/
> 
> I went the whole super soil route and it's a waste of money and time let alone back breaking work.
> 
> ...





KLITE said:


> Why throw away all that perfectly good soil? Reuse reduce recycle


So i basically have been doing that, just using Blue Mountian Organics all the time. So my question would be, should i continue to just use them, or should i just make my own teas (I Am working on this, it just may be while... or should i do it now?), Or should i Amend the Soil and add lime, more rocks, some manure, bone meal, and then make my own Soil Web in the soil and let it sit for a couple months, and just forget Fertilizers? Or would i Still have to use teas even after amending the soil?


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## TwistItUp (Oct 19, 2014)

I've noticed people often talk trash about people who buy bagged TGA Super Soil.
Is this the same for people using Sub's recipe? Or just people buying bagged super soil.


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## TwistItUp (Oct 19, 2014)

TwistItUp said:


> I've noticed people often talk trash about people who buy bagged TGA Super Soil.
> Is this the same for people using Sub's recipe? Or just people buying bagged super soil.


Also I once read something about reusing super soil, and that people are saying if you had a good run with your super soil and had no issues with bugs or have already treated the soil for bugs then you should reuse the same soil, and people are reporting that the soil works better with every grow giving better and better results each time, suggesting to use the same soil for something like 6 grows, might have been even more. But what I want to know is, are people re amending the soil or do you just pull one plant and put another plant in?


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## malignant (Oct 21, 2014)

A little column a and a little column b.. Some use the soil immediatly, some use it after its sat and the root ball has started to break down. Some people use well maintained raised beds that have a continual soil food web that is maintianed. Ive preached for years about aerated teas, its applications like this that they really come in handy. Taking care of the soil food web creates amazing plants, if you used an all organic grow, stopped feeding toeards the end, your soil shouldnt be hot. I re use all my soil in my yard for gardening, however i dont see why you cant grow another crop on it. Just make sure all is clean, and let it sit for a couple week, watered, just to be safe.


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 7, 2014)

subs soil recipe is decent but you should tweak it youre self like instead of high phosphorus guano and seabird guano try crab meal or soft rock phosphate or oyster shells. ive done sooo much research on different organic amendments that you can exchange anything on that recipie and make it better...
also has anyone thought of the idea of making a super soiless batch? I want to try it but I have my doubts. any suggestions or someone trying it?


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 7, 2014)

radicaldank42 said:


> subs soil recipe is decent but you should tweak it youre self like instead of high phosphorus guano and seabird guano try crab meal or soft rock phosphate or oyster shells. ive done sooo much research on different organic amendments that you can exchange anything on that recipie and make it better...
> also has anyone thought of the idea of making a super soiless batch? I want to try it but I have my doubts. any suggestions or someone trying it?


I ran a batch of my own amended soil, but swapped out the peat moss for coco coir. The plants were nice and healthy, no issues, other than I thought the yield suffered a bit. The coco coir retains water a lot more than peat does, so I think I over watered a bit before I clued in..... so I'm wondering if that was my fault, or if the lower CEC from coir was responsible for the lower yield??


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 7, 2014)

well if you add in compost or humic acids the cec shouldn't be a problem, and its hard to over water coco coir, at least in my opinion I was watering every two to three days. plus feed every second watering
but im getting tired of brewing teas lmfao, rather just make a super soilless soil, plus I love coco coir, to me soil gives it a much earthier tastes wher from the coco coir I didn't get as much of that earthy taste and was kinda sweeter.
I also use thirsty lights toi tell me when to water exactly


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 7, 2014)

radicaldank42 said:


> well if you add in compost or humic acids the cec shouldn't be a problem, and its hard to over water coco coir, at least in my opinion I was watering every two to three days. plus feed every second watering
> but im getting tired of brewing teas lmfao, rather just make a super soilless soil, plus I love coco coir, to me soil gives it a much earthier tastes wher from the coco coir I didn't get as much of that earthy taste and was kinda sweeter.


Well of course I added compost. 1/3 of my base is EWC. If you look in to it the CEC of coco coir it is not as high as peat moss. Believe me, we beat this topic to death on here.

I dont think my mind was playing tricks on me as far as water retention goes. These are strains that I've been growing for quite a while, and a plant that I would typically water every second day in a peat moss base would go 3 to 4 days without need ing water in the coir.

Either way, yield suffered. Not blaming the coir per se, just an observation I made.


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 7, 2014)

hmmmm, true but unlease we can connect with the plants like the avatar people, we wont know completely, but have you eveer used a thirsty light before?


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 7, 2014)

radicaldank42 said:


> have you eveer used a thirsty light before?


Never heard of it


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 7, 2014)

pretty much just put in the soil and it blinks when its ready to water


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 8, 2014)

their like five four bucks if you go to ace. at least where im at lol


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 21, 2014)

have you guys ever used earth shine?


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## TwistItUp (Nov 21, 2014)

I think I've used it, or a similar product. The carbon additive I used I think was in a red packet though. Or maybe that was some mycorrhiza in the red pack. I can't remember which pack was which product or the brand name but I had like 2 sample packs of each and used the both of them. The carbon one kind of looked real similar to brake dust with chunks.


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 21, 2014)

I like it so far, I just was happy to find something that increases the carbon levels in my soil.


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## TwistItUp (Nov 21, 2014)

I saw a monster gardens video that said it was a good product to use especially for organic growers who plan to reuse their soil. They said it helps keep the soil going or something can't remember exactly what it was they said.


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## DonTesla (Nov 25, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Well of course I added compost. 1/3 of my base is EWC. If you look in to it the CEC of coco coir it is not as high as peat moss. Believe me, we beat this topic to death on here.
> 
> I dont think my mind was playing tricks on me as far as water retention goes. These are strains that I've been growing for quite a while, and a plant that I would typically water every second day in a peat moss base would go 3 to 4 days without need ing water in the coir.
> 
> Either way, yield suffered. Not blaming the coir per se, just an observation I made.


Same strains and an extra 50-100% time between waterings.. That much a difference hey… Wow

Nothing else added or changed? No perlite bottom of the pots, not any less fans, or lighting? Hmm. And a recycled batch so same castings?

If so, I might be tempted to consider running your coir runs with 15% EWC instead of 33% and give that a try! 

Petro's research findings has me testing the theory that its better to have less (better qual) EWC .. I'm sure your castings are potent and alive, maybe give it a shot! Can always add the other 18% if you don't like it.. Despite this last study that surfaced, THIS study found that 15% was the sweet spot, and made for higher yields and more branches, with less nodal spacing. 

(Petro will have it, Stow and its also on our thread around page 35 i think) 
Keep us posted!!


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 25, 2014)

DonTesla said:


> Same strains and an extra 50-100% time between waterings.. That much a difference hey… Wow
> 
> Nothing else added or changed? No perlite bottom of the pots, not any less fans, or lighting? Hmm. And a recycled batch so same castings?
> 
> ...


Not exactly a scientific study, just an observation I made. Everything remained the same with the exception of the coco coir.

Interesting info on the 15% mark for compost/castings. I may just give that a whirl and see how it does. It almost makes sense in a no-till to start with less castings in the original mix considering that I top dress with EWC in between rounds, so the medium ends up being a larger and larger % of castings over time


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## DonTesla (Nov 25, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Not exactly a scientific study, just an observation I made. Everything remained the same with the exception of the coco coir.
> 
> Interesting info on the 15% mark for compost/castings. I may just give that a whirl and see how it does. It almost makes sense in a no-till to start with less castings in the original mix considering that I top dress with EWC in between rounds, so the medium ends up being a larger and larger % of castings over time


Still. A very good observation and interesting one at that..
I used to top dress with just castings, now I am trying just supersoil for the most part.
starting to test a combo of SS, EWC, & bacterial friendly (green) mulches. Especially thick mulches on the fabric pots. Thinner for the plastic since they don't breathe as well, especially our double pots.

Most my extra population gets dispersed in the soil and mulch. Gwan expand as I get more space. Would like to triple up like you did, i know what you mean about it not being enough.


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## greasemonkeymann (Nov 26, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Not exactly a scientific study, just an observation I made. Everything remained the same with the exception of the coco coir.
> 
> Interesting info on the 15% mark for compost/castings. I may just give that a whirl and see how it does. It almost makes sense in a no-till to start with less castings in the original mix considering that I top dress with EWC in between rounds, so the medium ends up being a larger and larger % of castings over time


you know, I had some pretty substantial yield differences when I used coco in a mix I used a couple years ago, I attributed it to not rinsing the coco enough, even though I soaked and rinsed it four times. So you aren't alone on that regard, that's was the last time I used it, I prefer the peat, but the environment...
I re-use my soil, so in my mind that helps the environment, right? I mean I don't live in a solar powered house with a Nissan leaf that runs off my solar energy, sooo, but hey, at least i'm not driving a 8.1 liter v8 chevy,..


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## radicaldank42 (Nov 28, 2014)

what was the substantial yield difference between the two like grams ounces or what? and thanks for the tip, ill try to keep my EWC at 15% in my mix. and I add perlite to my mix but I don't use peat. and I add alfalfa which also adds to the water retention and its awesome or bacteria growth as well.


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## greasemonkeymann (Dec 4, 2014)

radicaldank42 said:


> what was the substantial yield difference between the two like grams ounces or what? and thanks for the tip, ill try to keep my EWC at 15% in my mix. and I add perlite to my mix but I don't use peat. and I add alfalfa which also adds to the water retention and its awesome or bacteria growth as well.


i'd say a good 5-10% less on each plant, at that time I was running two 600w hps, and one 400 w MH, and I had 6 scrogged plants, (usually got 8-10 oz a plant) I always rotate the plants, and use new bulbs, so all in all, i'd say it was about an oz a plant difference, maybe a lil less, but times that by 6, and it was significant at the end. the buds looked about the same, but came out a lil lighter than normal, so I stopped using it, and went back to peat. It could have been many other variables, but, really, unless you can do a scientific controlled study with hundreds of plants it's hard to tell what it was from, but when I went back to peat, my yields went back too, so I kinda attributed it to the coco.
Coco works well for seed starting and clones though, but most inert materials do, vermiculite, perlite, rockwool, etc.


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## radicaldank42 (Dec 5, 2014)

hmm that is true.. I just like th taste better in my opinion maybe ill give peat a try.. hmm idk nmore researh is required!!!


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## desertdog (Dec 12, 2014)

Cann said:


> use diatomaceous earth for long term silica. organic rice also has a good amount of silica in it and will feed the fungi in your soil...i dont know silica blast personally so I would be skeptical to add it, I do however add Dyna-grow Pro-tekt into every watering for silica.


The DTE is the best, cheapest route. And it gives off a lot of calcium and many other trace minerals and stays in the soil for quite a while.


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## littlejacob (Dec 13, 2014)

Hello organik's growers!
I'm from France, and I'll love to use T.G.A Supersoil,but where in U.E may I find it?
I'm not gonna buy it from U.S it is too far,expensive and my carbon footprint going to reach the sky...so if you have European store for me it'll be nice.
See you soon!


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## radicaldank42 (Dec 13, 2014)

why not just look up his recipie and make it youre self?


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## littlejacob (Dec 15, 2014)

Hello everybody

Radicaldank,it's a good idea, but try to find AZOMITE in U.E...and the others ingredients are hard to find or didn't exist.
But we have: Flour worm guano 1/47/32 NPK do you know it?
See you growers


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## desertdog (Dec 15, 2014)

malignant said:


> [video=youtube;s-jOcEMnTbc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&amp;v=s-jOcEMnTbc&amp;feature=endscreen[/video]


I can't get link to work.


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## sloppyseconds (Jan 5, 2015)

greenghost420 said:


> would some silica blast be the best way to add some silica or any ammendments i can throw in?


Im not sure if you guys are aware but general hydroponics ph up is potassium carbonate and potassium silicate which is main ingredient in silica blast i usually throw my ph down in first so i can add a little more ph up ya herd! On the other hand Silca Blast is a good product it protects the plant from heat stress so in return you get more light up take i had um flourishing in 100 degree weather with it!


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## littlejacob (Jan 5, 2015)

Hello growers! 
So is anyone know flour worm guano:NPK 1/47/32.Do you have it in your country? And do any English people over here, known where to find AZOMITE in Europe and the rest of the ingredients too? If not I'm gonna try Biotabs or sannie's tablets for veg and flour worm guano for blooming (with something else)
See you guys


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## Pattahabi (Jan 8, 2015)

st0wandgrow said:


> Well of course I added compost. 1/3 of my base is EWC. If you look in to it the CEC of coco coir it is not as high as peat moss. Believe me, we beat this topic to death on here.
> 
> I dont think my mind was playing tricks on me as far as water retention goes. These are strains that I've been growing for quite a while, and a plant that I would typically water every second day in a peat moss base would go 3 to 4 days without need ing water in the coir.
> 
> Either way, yield suffered. Not blaming the coir per se, just an observation I made.


Will you continue using coir instead of peat? Just curious as usual.

P-


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## st0wandgrow (Jan 8, 2015)

Pattahabi said:


> Will you continue using coir instead of peat? Just curious as usual.
> 
> P-


I don't think so. I didn't hate it, but I ended up with less yield so I see no good reason to use it again given the fact that it has to be shipped from half way across the globe.

I'll have some leaf mold ready in the spring/summer. I'm really hoping that does well as a peat substitute. Can't beat free and environmentally friendly!


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## radicaldank42 (Jan 9, 2015)

what is leaf mold exactly?? how do you prepare it my friend?i also don't like azomite. felt like the ladies didn't appreciate it at all. and I agree im going to use peat with a mixing of coco. everytyhing finished and the one with mostly peat harvested nicer and buds were a lil denser.


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## st0wandgrow (Jan 9, 2015)

radicaldank42 said:


> what is leaf mold exactly?? how do you prepare it my friend?i also don't like azomite. felt like the ladies didn't appreciate it at all. and I agree im going to use peat with a mixing of coco. everytyhing finished and the one with mostly peat harvested nicer and buds were a lil denser.


Leaf mold is simply broken down leaves from your yard. It's similar to a compost pile, but no thermophilic microbes are present. It's an almost exclusively fungal decomposition reffered to as cold composting. You mulch the leaves, pile them up, project a small amount of an N source (I used alfalfa meal) on to the pile and wet it down. I used some chicken wire to fence it off a bit so the wind didn't blow shit around. In about 12 months I will have a highly fungal, peat-like substance that can be used in place of peat moss or coco coir. 100% free!


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## radicaldank42 (Jan 9, 2015)

thatas interesting. I feed m,y worms my left over leafs and leafs that I trim off.


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## a senile fungus (Jan 9, 2015)

st0wandgrow said:


> Leaf mold is simply broken down leaves from your yard. It's similar to a compost pile, but no thermophilic microbes are present. It's an almost exclusively fungal decomposition reffered to as cold composting. You mulch the leaves, pile them up, project a small amount of an N source (I used alfalfa meal) on to the pile and wet it down. I used some chicken wire to fence it off a bit so the wind didn't blow shit around. In about 12 months I will have a highly fungal, peat-like substance that can be used in place of peat moss or coco coir. 100% free!


Dude if I buy the house where I'm living I'm going to have a big leaf pile, compost pile, and worm bin.

If you ever need any I'll hook you up.

Which reminds me, I'm sending you a PM


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## radicaldank42 (Jan 10, 2015)

can you use it as a super soil substrate?


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## st0wandgrow (Jan 10, 2015)

radicaldank42 said:


> can you use it as a super soil substrate?


Absolutely


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## Hiero1 (Jan 10, 2015)

I have a batch of super soil that I made six months ago.The temperature in my garage has dropped below 40. Is the super soil still good?


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## st0wandgrow (Jan 11, 2015)

Hiero1 said:


> I have a batch of super soil that I made six months ago.The temperature in my garage has dropped below 40. Is the super soil still good?


Should be fine. Worst case scenario the microbes went dormant for a bit.

If you can, make a compost tea and wet it down with that a week or so before using it


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## Hiero1 (Jan 11, 2015)

Thanks for your help. Should I make the tea out of earthworm castings and guano?


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## alcohol (Jan 11, 2015)

Hiero1 said:


> Thanks for your help. Should I make the tea out of earthworm castings and guano?


yes


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## st0wandgrow (Jan 12, 2015)

Hiero1 said:


> Thanks for your help. Should I make the tea out of earthworm castings and guano?


I don't use guano, just castings and molasses but I suppose you could if you wanted to


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## sloppyseconds (Jan 16, 2015)

I wonder if i used styrofoam in my medium if it would have any advantages?


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## radicaldank42 (Jan 16, 2015)

hmmm that sounds like a good idea but would it cause harm... hmmmm that's a good question
and alriht sounds like a idea goping to hunt up soime leafs and make a soilk out of it. have you tried using just the fan leafs from previous grows to make the leaf mold?


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## st0wandgrow (Jan 16, 2015)

radicaldank42 said:


> hmmm that sounds like a good idea but would it cause harm... hmmmm that's a good question
> and alriht sounds like a idea goping to hunt up soime leafs and make a soilk out of it. have you tried using just the fan leafs from previous grows to make the leaf mold?


I haven't used fan leaves for leaf mold, but I've used them for a mulch and I toss them in to my worm bin too.

Honestly you'd need an insane amount of fan leaves to make any substantial amount of leaf mold. The leaves really break down over time, so you'd have to be running a huge grow op to come up with enough leaves. I have 5 fully mature maple trees around my yard and I raked up all the leaves from those and fenced them off. After a couple months the pile was about 1/4 the size of what it was when I started it. Rough guess, but I bet I will have no more than 20-30 cf of leaf mold to work with when it's all said and done.


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## Vnsmkr (Jan 16, 2015)

sloppyseconds said:


> I wonder if i used styrofoam in my medium if it would have any advantages?


I was actually thinking of getting a bunch of styrofoam and mashing the f out of it and mixing it in with my medium, but I think I will go with rice hulls instead since that means no work of mashing styrofoam


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## radicaldank42 (Jan 16, 2015)

daumn, what if you bagged them up let them dry out them crush them up in a fine powder and save them till its enough? can you keep adding more leafs through time or will it make it take longer?


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## docter (Jan 22, 2015)

S


sloppyseconds said:


> I wonder if i used styrofoam in my medium if it would have any advantages?


Stratification.
Styrofoam is too light and can float to the top if you water heavily.
.


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## docter (Jan 22, 2015)

docter said:


> S
> 
> Stratification.
> Styrofoam is too light and can float to the top if you water heavily.
> .


I haven't tried rice hulls. Good idea. I have heard of many members here add them to there soil.


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## radicaldank42 (Jan 23, 2015)

hmmm rice hulls. sounds like were mainng some mean cuisine lol. also I was doing some research on teas and they said to add a cup of outside soil to the mix for a huge range in microbes and fungi is that a smart idea to introduce outside bacteria and such to the indoor grow or no? also ive been qaadding straw to my teas and shits been loving it every tea feed, also how many times you guys use teas? I brew one up after ever feed.


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## vegaorganic408 (Feb 4, 2015)

im a firtst time supersoil mixer and thia is what ive come up with with excellent results.

4 cf coco
1cf pearlite
.2cf vermiculte
.2cf forest humus
.6cf mixed locally sourced horse, cow, chicken manures.
20lb homemade ewc

1lb fish bone meal
1lb bone meal
1lb blood meal
1lb feather meal
1lb bat guano (0-5-0)
1lb seabird guano (1-10-0)
1/2 lb langbeinite
2 cups neem seed meal
2 cups oyster shell
2 cups alfalfa meaL
2 cups kelp meal
1/4 cup epsom salt
1 cup azomite
1/2 cup granular humic acids


Water with tea made with soil mix every 2 weeks And Mix. Let soil sit or "cook" for at least 2 months. Preferably aroumd 75f-85f.
i suhgest building a small incubation box and heat that up To certain degree.

Ps. heating isnt necessary!!!! do what you can with what you have is always the beat way to go.

For liquids i love using 
vegamatrix grow and bloom. Or
bio thrive gro and bloom
But always use vegamatrix prime zyme and vegamtrix cal mag supp, im possitive that this isnt like any other cal mag ive used before.
but then again theses are just my trials

5x10×9 grow tent
1 1000w raptor xxxl on track rolller 
10 gdp in 5 gal (5 week veg in 1 gal, then 2 in 5 gal...7week total)(separate veg room of course)
super crop throughtout veg.
All utilities are on ceiling so max floor coverage.

Flowers come out to about 6.5 tall even after settimg dowm nets 4ft high.


Wish i cam show pictures but we havested just a little of 5 units


Just want a shoutout to subcool for teaching me the basics.
Eventually ill be using my own personal vegan and organic compst As bases.


2%er forever!!!






I alologize if i offended anyome as im here just to pass on any information i can and learn from you all as well.


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## Pattahabi (Feb 5, 2015)

sloppyseconds said:


> I wonder if i used styrofoam in my medium if it would have any advantages?


Dude, that's how you get that super chem glue #57 dankness!

*Environmental effects*
The EPA and International Agency for Research on Cancer have determined styrene as a possible human carcinogen.[8][9] The National Bureau of Standards Center for Fire Research found 57 chemical by-products released during the combustion of expanded polystyrene foam.[10]



P-


----------



## st0wandgrow (Feb 5, 2015)

Pattahabi said:


> Dude, that's how you get that super chem glue #57 dankness!
> 
> *Environmental effects*
> The EPA and International Agency for Research on Cancer have determined styrene as a possible human carcinogen.[8][9] The National Bureau of Standards Center for Fire Research found 57 chemical by-products released during the combustion of expanded polystyrene foam.[10]
> ...



Had the wife pick me up a box of kelp meal over the weekend and she got home only to find a warning label on the side that said "This product contains an ingredient known to cause cancer by the state of California".

WTF could that be? Only thing I can think of is it's probably not cold pressed and maybe the solvent that's used is the issue?


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## Pattahabi (Feb 5, 2015)

st0wandgrow said:


> Had the wife pick me up a box of kelp meal over the weekend and she got home only to find a warning label on the side that said "This product contains an ingredient known to cause cancer by the state of California".
> 
> WTF could that be? Only thing I can think of is it's probably not cold pressed and maybe the solvent that's used is the issue?


Was it kelp meal, or liquid kelp?


----------



## unwine99 (Feb 5, 2015)

st0wandgrow said:


> Had the wife pick me up a box of kelp meal over the weekend and she got home only to find a warning label on the side that said "This product contains an ingredient known to cause cancer by the state of California".
> 
> WTF could that be? Only thing I can think of is it's probably not cold pressed and maybe the solvent that's used is the issue?


Fox farm ocean forest has the same label. I looked it up one time and it's because of cadmium. They say that it's naturally present and not added -- I'm pretty sure kelp has the stuff in it too.


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## st0wandgrow (Feb 5, 2015)

Pattahabi said:


> Was it kelp meal, or liquid kelp?


Kelp meal


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## st0wandgrow (Feb 5, 2015)

This is the brand here....


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## Pattahabi (Feb 5, 2015)

st0wandgrow said:


> Kelp meal


Odd. If I get a chance, I'll try and ask Coot. I have no idea why kelp meal would say that. AFAIK it is only dried and ground.

P-


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## Rrog (Feb 5, 2015)

Might be a warning for heavy metal buildup in kelp.


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## Pattahabi (Feb 5, 2015)

Might also have something to do with this:

http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/welcome/features/20070509_kelp_arsenic/

More Prop 65 info attached.

P-


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## radicaldank42 (Feb 7, 2015)

that's weird cause I got that same box here in Michigan and it doesn't say that lmfao


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## st0wandgrow (Feb 7, 2015)

radicaldank42 said:


> that's weird cause I got that same box here in Michigan and it doesn't say that lmfao



Very weird considering I bought this in Michigan. It's a sticker that was placed on the package (assuming by the manufacturer).

Here's the warning label...


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## Rrog (Feb 7, 2015)

reproductive probs = heavy metals to me


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## BuzzD2Kill (Feb 7, 2015)

Doesnt everybody have a "special" ingredient? Superstition are a mofo. Lol


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## a senile fungus (Feb 8, 2015)

st0wandgrow said:


> Very weird considering I bought this in Michigan. It's a sticker that was placed on the package (assuming by the manufacturer).
> 
> Here's the warning label...
> 
> *pic*



Here's what I found


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## radicaldank42 (Feb 9, 2015)

daumn well idk what to tell you lol, im looking at it rite now at my house and nada but I saw irt at my store. so idk maybe the sticker fell off or got missed idk


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## sloppyseconds (Feb 11, 2015)

The more sponge the soil, the more air the roots have to grow thats why coco and peatmoss work very well for drainage and oxygen im actually mixing in volcanic clay pellets as well thanks to "Ed"!


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## sloppyseconds (Feb 11, 2015)

still havent tried the styrofoam, plastic is probaly not a good idea! Just a thought,......hhmm!Im thinking brand new mediums here!


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## sloppyseconds (Feb 11, 2015)

If it takes your water 5 minutes to flow through the soil then you seriously need to think about changing up your medium


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## radicaldank42 (Feb 13, 2015)

ive been using roots organics soilless coco media and amending ity with roots elemental and earth shine. also guys what do you think of og raskals breeds? I just ordered his regular fier alien romulans and im taking male and females to breed them with each other. but I just weanted some opinions and as well as tga's Chernobyl bothj regulars as well as lee roy from rare dankness. gonna do male and females. also any oopinions on controlled pollinating? cause I was gonna keep the males small and have like three branches and when the sackas are about to climax ill put a zip lock bag and when it bursts take it off slowly and of course no airflow. but I just wanted some help is all. wanna keep these genetics. also I just finished with my romulan fem x white skunk male cross and its the heaviest produceert ive ever had lmfao!!!!


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## grimdro (Feb 16, 2015)

why [email protected] money vinegerlowers ph andd bakin soda rra8iises it


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## radicaldank42 (Feb 20, 2015)

hmmmm I didn't know that. but wont vinegar mess with the bacteria and fungi?


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## grimdro (Feb 26, 2015)

shouldnt its not alchohol , fyi that kills plants .#my medusa is pritty (name of plant, one look will leave ya stoned -?


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## radicaldank42 (Feb 28, 2015)

rite but vinegar cleans everything. I would know I clean houses lmfao


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## radrolley (Apr 14, 2015)

super soil has worked amazing for me. i seen some criticisms on it but those ppl either are not following the instructions right or just dont know what they're doing. it's amazing only water from start to finish. i tried some before i had it cooking and it was still amazing. i have a problem with roots organic though. it always has fungus gnats and flying root aphids when i get it. not sure if it's because of where it is stored or if it comes off the semi that way. i use pyrethrins once in a while or azomax in the water. top inch of the soil is gnat gnix(recycled glass that cuts the bodies but doesnt hurt us excluding the dust). then i use the pots made of fabric so they cant use any holes in the bottom. mixing the soil can be a bit of work so i always make a big batch.


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## radicaldank42 (Apr 17, 2015)

grimdro said:


> shouldnt its not alchohol , fyi that kills plants .#my medusa is pritty (name of plant, one look will leave ya stoned -?


rite but I use vinegar to clean everything and I even klooked uit up vinegar kills bacteria and fungis soo it would be bad to use if youre a organic grower. and that's what io was seeing too with the gnats but im using their coco soilless media which gnats dfont like coco to begin with so they tend to stay away from it and yes the fabric pot idea is also what I use an I use the gnatnix as a preventative, andive never gotten any root aphids fgormt aht soil when I was using it so I think the placvwee where ytoou got it from is where its getting infected. id tell you to go coco its cleaner, better, and water is every third to 2nd day depending on hoe water demanding the sterain is.


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## radrolley (May 20, 2015)

the secret ingredient is the quality of julian's piss. 
this soil is working so good for me that i actually have friends that want to buy it from me because they dont have money to get all the shit you need. they just want enough for a few plants so they can keep things simple. almost like a house plant but more. just give it water as needed. keep temps and humidity in check along with fresh air or co2. simple as that. use common sense and you wont get mites. if your soil has gnats or aphids use cloth pots with a thick layer of gnat gnix on top. then water with ferilome triple action once in a while. bugs hate it. it is safe for us and even organic.


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## radicaldank42 (May 20, 2015)

Idk man that recipient that I'm using is doing pretty well rite now man. For realbi wishbi ciuldnupload photos lmfao. I hate living poverty


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## greendave (Jun 13, 2015)

Can anyone tell me is it okay to use tap water with subs super soil.


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 20, 2015)

yea, but what I did is I tested my tap waters ppm to make sure it wasn't fulkl of shit I didn't need first


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## greendave (Jun 20, 2015)

Thanks radical.yeah my tap water has a ppm of 130 and my phone is 6.1 and I always let my water sit in a 5 gallon bucket for at least 36 to 48 hrs.so that's ok? Thanks buddy


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 20, 2015)

ye aman that should be fuine but what you should also do is get a air pump and throw a airstone on it and throw it into youre water to have the water be oxidized and help it de chlorinate faster also. cause that's what the let sit for 36 -48 housr is for the air pump will cut that in half or more


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## greendave (Jun 20, 2015)

Sounds great thanks for your help it's much appreciated.


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## abalonehx (Jun 23, 2015)

Tired of chem ferts and wanna do the organic soil thang.
I didn't read this whole thread yet but...I went first to Monster Gardens offer
for the whole super soil package which is $178 + $128 shipping (ouch-to mi.). Total = $306.
So I sourced all the ingredients on Amazon (with prime) and it all came out to approx. $220.
Shipped to my door. So MG's offers a good deal for Cali pickup but anyone else, not!
I haven't sourced these ingredients from local hydro stores which I plan to do. Plenty local.
Am I on the right track ?


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## Cannabil (Jul 13, 2015)

greenghost420 said:


> i was teetering between protekt and rhino skin...iv never used silica blast either.


They are all good products promise


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## Superweedman (Jul 13, 2015)

Here is my subcool soil vid


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## radicaldank42 (Jul 14, 2015)

Not bad look up earth shine and bioag, earthshine is for biochd trace elements and such is yourlvic and humic acids a also have prpducts that have all the micronutrients pluss acids and hr products


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## Cannabil (Jul 15, 2015)

radicaldank42 said:


> Not bad look up earth shine and bioag, earthshine is for biochd trace elements and such is yourlvic and humic acids a also have prpducts that have all the micronutrients pluss acids and hr products





radicaldank42 said:


> Not bad look up earth shine and bioag, earthshine is for biochd trace elements and such is yourlvic and humic acids a also have prpducts that have all the micronutrients pluss acids and hr products


He used bio ag fulvex in his mix. It was towards the end.

He had a small bag of it and it looked like it was the old bag bcuz it was white. The new bags are black.

But its the best humic and fulvic on market hands down no competition to it at all not even close.


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## Cannabil (Jul 15, 2015)

I been researching this super soil and organic growing. Id like get an easy explained mix that shows what you should use and options for amendments. 

Be nice someone explain it thoroughly as it is easy once you know what everything is doing but when u first start it seems pretty in depth and complicated.

I see people saying to add these flowering spike mixes and layering in veg and bloom but dont explain if thats an entirely different super soil u need to cook up or if u just throw it on top as a top dressing and water it in or if its amendments you brew and make a tea from.

Really fckin confusing shit man wish someone could explain it in easy details. As im very interested in going all veganic/organic replacing the bone and blood meal for all natural stuff and growing good clean meds. Dont even care about super high yields long as it comes out clean, funky and super taste and looks awesome. Im sold soon as I figure all this shit out. Maybe someone can help a fellow grower out whose trying to learn something new


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## radicaldank42 (Jul 15, 2015)

Read true living organics by the rev from skunk magazine. Bestvever


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## radicaldank42 (Jul 15, 2015)

Cannabil said:


> I been researching this super soil and organic growing. Id like get an easy explained mix that shows what you should use and options for amendments.
> 
> Be nice someone explain it thoroughly as it is easy once you know what everything is doing but when u first start it seems pretty in depth and complicated.
> 
> ...


http://rollitup.org/t/the-dons-organic-garden.815786/page-90. I Pr,momiseits the sjit
Go by the soill mix that don talks about its the fourteenth comment down. I love that recipe I just use more coco and perlite


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## Cannabil (Jul 16, 2015)

radicaldank42 said:


> http://rollitup.org/t/the-dons-organic-garden.815786/page-90. I Pr,momiseits the sjit
> Go by the soill mix that don talks about its the fourteenth comment down. I love that recipe I just use more coco and perlite


Yeah I just ordered that book I heard that its an absolute must have and is truly a wealth of solid information knowledge. Just ordered it from Barnes n Noble few days ago.

Yeah I see the recipe and I understand everyone has their own mixes that work but what Im saying is everyone uses diff shit. So it wud be nice if someone explained the recipe with options and input for example:

For your base mix you can choose to use bone meal, blood mean, fish meal or feather meal to source nitrogen:
The reason you want to you X over Z is because (and than the reason or whatever explanation is justified)
Than for calcium and magnesium you can choose to use XYZ or run both of them its whatever you like or prefer

Sweet Dolomite lime (powdered) OR
Floured Oyster Shell

Im just looking for an easy complete simple to use super soil mix that explains why you should use one amendment over another or what the purpose for using the rock phosphate over greensand because it doesnt break down easily. Simple things like that just make it understandable. Than they got the layering spikes and top dresses and teas I think its just over kill and make it so much more difficult than it needs to be you know.

Thanks for info Im gonna read that thread today and skim through it hopefully find some good info in there.


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## littlejacob (Jul 21, 2015)

Bonjour
Is there any U.E residents on this good thread? I would like to know if you know where I can buy some supersoil in E.U or something similar or even the ingredients, i really want to try "only water"
If you have some ideas for me, i would take it...
Have a great day★


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## radicaldank42 (Jul 22, 2015)

Yea just go to the ink I posted problem solved


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## Jumfrey13 (Nov 30, 2015)

Superweedman said:


> Here is my subcol vid


Hey superweedman. I watched your vid and I am going to be making this next week. One question: should I let this mix cook for a few months before I use it?


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## Jumfrey13 (Nov 30, 2015)

Jumfrey13 said:


> Hey superweedman. I watched your vid and I am going to be making this next week. One question: should I let this mix cook for a few months before I use it?


Also, no greensand in this one. No need for me to purchase that i assume. Just trying to get everything ready.


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## radrolley (Feb 28, 2016)

HapaHaole said:


> EXCELLENT Tutorial thank you!
> 
> I'm gathering all the stuff now so great!
> On a side note tho... awwww, I could not see subs "secret-ingredient"?


my secret ingredient that will not be so secret anymore is i add about a gallon of my previous super soil mix to my newer super soil mix.

i also add a little green sand, vermiculite, humus, and rice hulls. i also add a lot more lime, azomite, epsom salt, and humic acid than the recipe calls for. 

i quit using fox farm and roots organic soil. too many bugs. i like seeing no bugs on my traps. i prefer ferilome, grubby cup, and m3. nice and clean.


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## AdmiralAd (Mar 10, 2016)

Hi RIU. I've only recently joined this forum and have been reading as much as possible. OK so I've read this thread thru and thru and I'm just wondering. Do y'all cover your soil while it's cooking or what? I started a batch about 6 weeks ago and put it in a 32 gallon can and a 18 gallon tote. I was worried about lack of airflow and insects so I drilled some holes in the top and sides and bottom and put the lid on. Then I loosely wrapped a tarp around it and sprinkled some DE around to keep the crawlies away. At least once a week I take it out and mix it and then put it back in. But every time I check it there are fungus gnats flying off of it when I take the top off. I'm worried they are having babies in my mix. I put some DE on top and then put the lid on and that seems to work but do I have to add DE every time I mix it? That seems like a lot of DE. Thanks all your input is greatly appreciated.


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## st0wandgrow (Mar 10, 2016)

AdmiralAd said:


> Hi RIU. I've only recently joined this forum and have been reading as much as possible. OK so I've read this thread thru and thru and I'm just wondering. Do y'all cover your soil while it's cooking or what? I started a batch about 6 weeks ago and put it in a 32 gallon can and a 18 gallon tote. I was worried about lack of airflow and insects so I drilled some holes in the top and sides and bottom and put the lid on. Then I loosely wrapped a tarp around it and sprinkled some DE around to keep the crawlies away. At least once a week I take it out and mix it and then put it back in. But every time I check it there are fungus gnats flying off of it when I take the top off. I'm worried they are having babies in my mix. I put some DE on top and then put the lid on and that seems to work but do I have to add DE every time I mix it? That seems like a lot of DE. Thanks all your input is greatly appreciated.


Next time you're at Home Depot grab a container of BTI bits. Mix some in to your soil while its sitting. It's a beneficial microbe that will take care of the gnat larvae. You can place some yellow sticky-traps on the surface of the soil to catch the adults.

http://www.horsesupplies.com/item/summit-mosquito-bits/E002332/?srccode=GPHRSSUP&gclid=CjwKEAiA04S3BRCYteOr6b-roSUSJABE1-6BztLCRksNRit7REXpZCV1hDMmDmE6qCRUQvh29GRP1hoCih_w_wcB&kwid=productads-adid^46254876782-device^m-plaid^18283950120-sku^[email protected]^PLA

As for covering the soil, I think you're on the right track. Drilling holes in the lid of your container is fine. You want to keep it moist, but you also don't want it sopping wet and turning anaerobic on you. Lil bit of air flow is good.

Best of luck!


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## AdmiralAd (Mar 10, 2016)

AdmiralAd said:


> Hi RIU. I've only recently joined this forum and have been reading as much as possible. OK so I've read this thread thru and thru and I'm just wondering. Do y'all cover your soil while it's cooking or what? I started a batch about 6 weeks ago and put it in a 32 gallon can and a 18 gallon tote. I was worried about lack of airflow and insects so I drilled some holes in the top and sides and bottom and put the lid on. Then I loosely wrapped a tarp around it and sprinkled some DE around to keep the crawlies away. At least once a week I take it out and mix it and then put it back in. But every time I check it there are fungus gnats flying off of it when I take the top off. I'm worried they are having babies in my mix. I put some DE on top and then put the lid on and that seems to work but do I have to add DE every time I mix it? That seems like a lot of DE. Thanks all your input is greatly appreciated.


BTW I mixed up:

2 bags FFOF
1 bag FFLW

Amended with:
Kelp meal
Alfalfa meal
Blood meal
Bone meal
Oyster shell
Bio char
Sunleaves bat guano 0-13-0 IIRC
EWC
Azomite
Dolomite lime
Humic acid
Neem seed meal
Vermiculite
1/4"-3/4" lava rock
DE
Epsom salts


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## AdmiralAd (Mar 10, 2016)

st0wandgrow said:


> Next time you're at Home Depot grab a container of BTI bits. Mix some in to your soil while its sitting. It's a beneficial microbe that will take care of the gnat larvae. You can place some yellow sticky-traps on the surface of the soil to catch the adults.
> 
> http://www.horsesupplies.com/item/summit-mosquito-bits/E002332/?srccode=GPHRSSUP&gclid=CjwKEAiA04S3BRCYteOr6b-roSUSJABE1-6BztLCRksNRit7REXpZCV1hDMmDmE6qCRUQvh29GRP1hoCih_w_wcB&kwid=productads-adid^46254876782-device^m-plaid^18283950120-sku^[email protected]^PLA
> 
> ...


Thank you very much st0w. I will grab some of that this weekend.


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## Organicgrow42 (Mar 14, 2016)

Guys, I used to grow w sub super soil. Check out a site called buildasoil.com

It changed me. Find the blog section. One of the pages he talks about subs metgod, the revs no til method and why his works the best. I'm loving my results and wished I didn't waste my time or money buying exotic ingredients in bulk, that I will now never use...well not never...the worms will eventually eat it  check out the rols thread here too, really good stuff!

I don't not work for buildasoil in any way. Just a really happy customer that wants to spread the good news (in my creepy old man voice from family guy


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## littlejacob (Mar 20, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> Guys, I used to grow wIw sub super soil. Check out a site called buildasoil.com
> 
> It changed me. Find the blog section. One of the pages he talks about subs metgod, the revs no til method and why his works the best. I'm loving my results and wished I didn't waste my time or money buying exotic ingredients in bulk, that I will now never use...well not never...the worms will eventually eat it  check out the rols thread here too, really good stuff!
> 
> I don't not work for buildasoil in any way. Just a really happy customer that wants to spread the good news (in my creepy old man voice from family guy


Bonjour
so you say that revs no till is a better way to grow!??
How better? it looks interesting
CU


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## Organicgrow42 (Mar 20, 2016)

Go to buildasoil.com and look up the complete growing system and check their blog. Page 8 or somewhere around there, he does comparisons of subs and the revs and I guess you would call his coots. I'm on coots mix now, will keep posted on my results. Some ingredients in the revs and subs mix just do not make sense


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## Vato_504 (May 9, 2016)

What's up fellas I'm about to mix up my super soil and I was wondering how often should I add water while its cooking thanks!!!


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## Rasta Roy (May 9, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> Guys, I used to grow w sub super soil. Check out a site called buildasoil.com
> 
> It changed me. Find the blog section. One of the pages he talks about subs metgod, the revs no til method and why his works the best. I'm loving my results and wished I didn't waste my time or money buying exotic ingredients in bulk, that I will now never use...well not never...the worms will eventually eat it  check out the rols thread here too, really good stuff!
> 
> I don't not work for buildasoil in any way. Just a really happy customer that wants to spread the good news (in my creepy old man voice from family guy


I'm gonna back you up on this. Buildasoil set me straight as well. Subs super soil? More like subs pooper soil. 

Don't layer shit in your soil my friends! Mix it all evenly in your pots and your plants will thank you.


----------



## Vato_504 (May 10, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I'm gonna back you up on this. Buildasoil set me straight as well. Subs super soil? More like subs pooper soil.
> 
> Don't layer shit in your soil my friends! Mix it all evenly in your pots and your plants will thank you.


So you're saying it's not good to layer the supersoil?


----------



## DonBrennon (May 10, 2016)

Vato_504 said:


> So you're saying it's not good to layer the supersoil?


You are getting good advice, forget about 'supersoil', read the 'Buildasoil' method.....................less really is more in this case. We probably all started organics mixing supersoil, cos it's the most well known method, but we all learnt that there's something inherently wrong with both the mix of nutrients and the layering methods.


----------



## Vato_504 (May 10, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> You are getting good advice, forget about 'supersoil', read the 'Buildasoil' method.....................less really is more in this case. We probably all started organics mixing supersoil, cos it's the most well known method, but we all learnt that there's something inherently wrong with both the mix of nutrients and the layering methods.


So what's the difference in the 2


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## DonBrennon (May 10, 2016)

Vato_504 said:


> So what's the difference in the 2


A far superior end product, with the coot/buildasoil method. Your plants will also be far healthier throughout the cycle, meaning you will feel less need to tinker with things, which usually only leads to other problems


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## Rasta Roy (May 10, 2016)

Vato_504 said:


> So what's the difference in the 2


One follows science, and actually understanding how plants grow...while subs supersoil does not.

Subs is also super expensive to put together.


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## brimck325 (May 10, 2016)

it was also vic high's super soil till sub put his name on it.....he's a thief from the word go. most if not all the genetics he started with were stolen in fl. just before he skipped town.

coot's ftw!


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## Rasta Roy (May 10, 2016)

And he's from Florida...ewwww.


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## Vato_504 (May 10, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> One follows science, and actually understanding how plants grow...while subs supersoil does not.
> 
> Subs is also super expensive to put together.


Buildasoil comes pre made or you make it the way you want it on their site


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## Rasta Roy (May 10, 2016)

Vato_504 said:


> Buildasoil comes pre made or you make it the way you want it on their site


I'm not recommending you use buildasoil.com. I'm just saying that where someone first pointed out to me how stupid layering your soil is. How espom salts in your soil will throw off your magnesium ratios. I recommend you final a local landscape supplier, to source Hella cheap peat moss and perlite, and if youre lucky a good quality compost. Google for composting places in your area.

1 Part Peat moss
1 Part Perlite 
1 Part Compost

1/4 cup per cubic feet (about seven gallons) of each of these

Kelp meal 
Alfalfa Meal
Crab Shell meal 
Fish Meal

Mix that all up, let it cook if you can! 

Plant your shit in that. Get a good quality worm casting brand if you can't make your own. Roots organics big worm is pretty solid for a big name. Top dress with that.

That'll be better than subs supersoil bullshit.


----------



## hotshotisdashit (May 10, 2016)

Not to put down play anything you guys said but ive been using subs super soil for about two years now and have nothing but positive things to say about it. Plants always a lush green, few deficiencies, nice fade, potent and smooth smoke with a great taste. Are their better recipes? Im sure but im content with what I have now. Before I started growing I had a dealer. I dealt with him strictly. Didnt matter if some new guy around the corner had better quality or cheaper prices.


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## Rasta Roy (May 10, 2016)

hotshotisdashit said:


> Not to put down play anything you guys said but ive been using subs super soil for about two years now and have nothing but positive things to say about it. Plants always a lush green, few deficiencies, nice fade, potent and smooth smoke with a great taste. Are their better recipes? Im sure but im content with what I have now. Before I started growing I had a dealer. I dealt with him strictly. Didnt matter if some new guy around the corner had better quality or cheaper prices.


You can keep the same ingredients if you want, you're spending too much money...

My biggest thing is don't layer your soil. Evenly mix everything in your pot. Your roots aren't slowly creeping down to the bottom, cannabis roots don't work that way.


----------



## Rasta Roy (May 10, 2016)

And yea you can have success with subs recipe... Cannabis is a weed. It grows well in the worst conditions.


----------



## Vato_504 (May 10, 2016)

hotshotisdashit said:


> Not to put down play anything you guys said but ive been using subs super soil for about two years now and have nothing but positive things to say about it. Plants always a lush green, few deficiencies, nice fade, potent and smooth smoke with a great taste. Are their better recipes? Im sure but im content with what I have now. Before I started growing I had a dealer. I dealt with him strictly. Didnt matter if some new guy around the corner had better quality or cheaper prices.


How often did you water it while it was cooking? And did you mix it up for a week or did one good mix and stored it


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## Vato_504 (May 10, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> You can keep the same ingredients if you want, you're spending too much money...
> 
> My biggest thing is don't layer your soil. Evenly mix everything in your pot. Your roots aren't slowly creeping down to the bottom, cannabis roots don't work that way.


So evenly mix the sub soil with a base soil is what you're saying


----------



## Rasta Roy (May 10, 2016)

Vato_504 said:


> So evenly mix the sub soil with a base soil is what you're saying


Fuck the base soil is what I'm saying.


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## Rasta Roy (May 10, 2016)

Look up above bro I gave you a perfect recipe


----------



## Vato_504 (May 10, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Look up above bro I gave you a perfect recipe


I seen that but look above above lol I bought everything already


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## Rasta Roy (May 10, 2016)

Vato_504 said:


> I seen that but look above above lol I bought everything already


Tell me what you got bro let's work out a good grow plan for you


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## Vato_504 (May 10, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Tell me what you got bro let's work out a good grow plan for you


6 bags of roots organic
3 bags of biobizz light mix 
20 pounds of dolomite lime
Alfalfa meal
Oyster shell
Blood meal 
50 lbs of worm casting
Kelp meal 
Blood meal 
Humic acid 
Azomite rock dust 
Epsom salt 
Fish bone meal 
High phosphorus bat guano
Organic perlite 
Clay pebbles 
Great white mycorrhizae


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## Rasta Roy (May 10, 2016)

Vato_504 said:


> 6 bags of roots organic
> 3 bags of biobizz light mix
> 20 pounds of dolomite lime
> Alfalfa meal
> ...


How many plants? What size pots? Cause a lot of that stuff we're gonna save for your next round, so let's figure out what you need for this one.


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## Vato_504 (May 10, 2016)

8 plants starting in 1 gallon and finishing in 5 gallon


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## Rasta Roy (May 10, 2016)

hotshotisdashit said:


> Not to put down play anything you guys said but ive been using subs super soil for about two years now and have nothing but positive things to say about it. Plants always a lush green, few deficiencies, nice fade, potent and smooth smoke with a great taste. Are their better recipes? Im sure but im content with what I have now. Before I started growing I had a dealer. I dealt with him strictly. Didnt matter if some new guy around the corner had better quality or cheaper prices.


No offense, and I mean this with the utmost respect... But if you're approach to growing is "ahhh... What I've been doing is good enough." than you're cheating yourself...and your teaching others to cheat themselves when you pass that aestic around. 

I get the whole if it ain't broke don't fix it mentality, but you should always be trying to learn and improve. And I get it to if you're just a hobby grower and you don't want to push yourself.

But just some perspective, this is a product that people still rob, kill, and arrest each other for. Even in the legal states...if you're willing to take that risk, why aren't you willing to educate yourself more and push yourself to improve your capabilities?


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## Rasta Roy (May 10, 2016)

Vato_504 said:


> 8 plants starting in 1 gallon and finishing in 5 gallon


What's the cubic foot size on roots organics bag?


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## Vato_504 (May 10, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> What's the cubic foot size on roots organics bag?


1.5 cubic ft


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## Rasta Roy (May 10, 2016)

Vato_504 said:


> 1.5 cubic ft


Well the good news bro, is you are Hella stocked up for a while, I'm on the road right now writing this from a stop light. I got some good advice for you let me write it all out once I'm safely out of the car lol.


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## Vato_504 (May 10, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Well the good news bro, is you are Hella stocked up for a while, I'm on the road right now writing this from a stop light. I got some good advice for you let me write it all out once I'm safely out of the car lol.


Okay. I can wait drive safe lol


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## Rasta Roy (May 10, 2016)

Vato_504 said:


> Okay. I can wait drive safe lol


A couple more stop light questions are you growing from seeds or clones? And are you trying to do a water-only approach? Do you have any molasses?


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## Vato_504 (May 10, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> A couple more stop light questions are you growing from seeds or clones? And are you trying to do a water-only approach? Do you have any molasses?


Yea water only approach and from seed. I can get molasses if I need it.


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## Rasta Roy (May 10, 2016)

Vato_504 said:


> Yea water only approach and from seed. I can get molasses if I need it.


Aight let's get down to it! I would start your seeds in that bio bizz light mix, whatever of that you have left after start your seeds I would mix with your roots organics bags. That'll give you about 58 gallons of soil or more. More than enough to fill up five gallon pots, although I would encourage you to use 7 or 10 gallon pots if you haven't purchased already.

So you've got your 9 cubic feet of roots organics together with maybe some of that biobizz stuff.

Mix in your amendments...I would just do two cups of each of these that you bought: 
Alfalfa Meal 
Oyster Shell Flour 
Kelp meal 
Humic acid
Fish Bone Meal 
Azomite 

Let that all cook. 

Hit all your seedling with plain water until they form their first leaves that look like cannabis leaves. Then top dress each seedling with about 1/4 cup of worm castings. Once they're big enough to repot, repot them into the cooked up mix. Put that mycorrhizae in each hole before you transplant, making sure it comes into contact with your roots. After you repot top dress with 1 Cup of worm castings, and retopdress more every couple weeks. Every three or four weeks you should top dress a half cup of kelp and alfalfa meal. And you can just do the plain water thing. 

Give me a minute and I'll have a post about what to do with when to use your leftover materials.


----------



## hotshotisdashit (May 10, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> No offense, and I mean this with the utmost respect... But if you're approach to growing is "ahhh... What I've been doing is good enough." than you're cheating yourself...and your teaching others to cheat themselves when you pass that aestic around.
> 
> I get the whole if it ain't broke don't fix it mentality, but you should always be trying to learn and improve. And I get it to if you're just a hobby grower and you don't want to push yourself.
> 
> But just some perspective, this is a product that people still rob, kill, and arrest each other for. Even in the legal states...if you're willing to take that risk, why aren't you willing to educate yourself more and push yourself to improve your capabilities?


Well Rasta... My approach is just as you stated. This recipe works for me and many others... Works and works well. If OP is a newb then in my opinion this is the best way to start to learn to grow and understand organic growing. Sub has a pretty big name in our hobby yet I see others who swear their recipe is so much better. Most( not saying you ) have piggybacked off of his or Vics recipe. So all im saying is it works. As far as layering soil... Well, I have no problem with it. Never seen any bad things in my plants related to it. For me, as u have said, it works. And for many others. So with all due respect I'll just stick to this recipe until I find something that interests me more and can produce similar results.


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## Vato_504 (May 10, 2016)

hotshotisdashit said:


> Well Rasta... My approach is just as you stated. This recipe works for me and many others... Works and works well. If OP is a newb then in my opinion this is the best way to start to learn to grow and understand organic growing. Sub has a pretty big name in our hobby yet I see others who swear their recipe is so much better. Most( not saying you ) have piggybacked off of his or Vics recipe. So all im saying is it works. As far as layering soil... Well, I have no problem with it. Never seen any bad things in my plants related to it. For me, as u have said, it works. And for many others. So with all due respect I'll just stick to this recipe until I find something that interests me more and can produce similar results.


So you use sub version


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## Rasta Roy (May 10, 2016)

@Vato_504 

When you first switch to flower you can top dress with the high phosphorus Guano, along with the kelp and some worm castings. Do it again every few weeks. But once you're like three weeks from cut down I would just plain water and don't worry about adding anything else.

Now as far as your other ingredients. You don't really need the lime or the perlite yet...but you can use them eventually. Same goes for the blood meal, most organic growers will tell you to avoid blood meal, but hey you bought it so I'll give you a guide for utilizing it.

You can make use of the lime slowly over time. After you harvest, before you reamend and reuse your soil...get one of those cheap soil pH testers at the hardware store. It probably will be fine the first couple times but as it lowers from the peat breaking down over time adding the lime will bring it back up.

Now when it comes to reamending your soil, that's when you can throw in the blood meal. When you reamend the soil for reuse, use the listed amendment recipe for your original soil above, same ratios, but add blood meal to the mix and mix in some of the perlite you bought to make sure it stays nice and aerated. The clay pebbles can probably help serve the same purpose.

When it comes to the Epsom Salts, maybe run yourself a nice hot bath after all that soil mixing and throw in a couple cups and soak your wore out muscles for a bit! Lol...also if you notice any magnesium deficiency during your grow just throw in a tbsp per gallon of em when you water and it'll clear right up. Don't do another feeding of it unless the deficiency returns. Holler if you got any questions man!


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## Rasta Roy (May 10, 2016)

hotshotisdashit said:


> Well Rasta... My approach is just as you stated. This recipe works for me and many others... Works and works well. If OP is a newb then in my opinion this is the best way to start to learn to grow and understand organic growing. Sub has a pretty big name in our hobby yet I see others who swear their recipe is so much better. Most( not saying you ) have piggybacked off of his or Vics recipe. So all im saying is it works. As far as layering soil... Well, I have no problem with it. Never seen any bad things in my plants related to it. For me, as u have said, it works. And for many others. So with all due respect I'll just stick to this recipe until I find something that interests me more and can produce similar results.


I'm sorry friend, I have to respectfully disagree with you.

If someone is a newb to organic growing then subs mix is not the best way to get introduced. It is by far from the simplest form of organic growing, it's prone to maintenance issues, it ignores how cannabis root structure actually grows, and it's more expensive. If anything, his mix is more prone to turn someone away from organic growing then onto it.

You wouldn't teach someone to swim by telling them to hug rocks would you?

Masterbaiting works for getting off, but wouldn't you rather have sex?

Just because something seems like it works for you, does not mean you are tapping your full potential. And if you are happy to just know what you know, and do what you do, by all means carry on. 

I come here to learn and spread what I've learned. If someone teaches me something, or corrects me on something I do wrong I'm going to take that and improve myself (I get you have to take people's opinions with a grain of salt but most people here are here to help each other not just measure how far they can piss). If that's not your thing that's totally cool, but I can't just let people spread misinformation either. And subcool shit is heavy on misinformation.


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## hotshotisdashit (May 11, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I'm sorry friend, I have to respectfully disagree with you.
> 
> If someone is a newb to organic growing then subs mix is not the best way to get introduced. It is by far from the simplest form of organic growing, it's prone to maintenance issues, it ignores how cannabis root structure actually grows, and it's more expensive. If anything, his mix is more prone to turn someone away from organic growing then onto it.
> 
> ...


I guess we will all have different approaches. So to each their own. Meanwhile, I enjoyed the sharing of info.


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## hotshotisdashit (May 11, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I'm sorry friend, I have to respectfully disagree with you.
> 
> If someone is a newb to organic growing then subs mix is not the best way to get introduced. It is by far from the simplest form of organic growing, it's prone to maintenance issues, it ignores how cannabis root structure actually grows, and it's more expensive. If anything, his mix is more prone to turn someone away from organic growing then onto it.
> 
> ...


By the way... There's nothing wrong with masturbating... Lol...


----------



## Vato_504 (May 11, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I'm sorry friend, I have to respectfully disagree with you.
> 
> If someone is a newb to organic growing then subs mix is not the best way to get introduced. It is by far from the simplest form of organic growing, it's prone to maintenance issues, it ignores how cannabis root structure actually grows, and it's more expensive. If anything, his mix is more prone to turn someone away from organic growing then onto it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice Roy. How often should I water while the soil is cooking?


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## Rasta Roy (May 11, 2016)

Vato_504 said:


> Thanks for the advice Roy. How often should I water while the soil is cooking?


It can depends on the environment it's stored, but after you mix it all up hit it with some water. You want it damp, not soaking. Think about a sponge after you get it wet and then wring it out. You want it to feel like a wrung out sponge, dampness wise. So mix it up again after watering to make sure it's all a consistent moisture. If you're storing in tubs then make sure it has air holes on the sides, if you're doing it on a floor or ground then make sure you cover with a tarp. The first time I would check it after a few days to see if the area you have is extra dry. You should bear witness to some condensation though, if you do you're probably all good and after that I would just check it once a week, mix it up. If it's too dry and no longer damp add some more water.


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## Vato_504 (May 11, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> It can depends on the environment it's stored, but after you mix it all up hit it with some water. You want it damp, not soaking. Think about a sponge after you get it wet and then wring it out. You want it to feel like a wrung out sponge, dampness wise. So mix it up again after watering to make sure it's all a consistent moisture. If you're storing in tubs then make sure it has air holes on the sides, if you're doing it on a floor or ground then make sure you cover with a tarp. The first time I would check it after a few days to see if the area you have is extra dry. You should bear witness to some condensation though, if you do you're probably all good and after that I would just check it once a week, mix it up. If it's too dry and no longer damp add some more water.


Where I live 504 it's real hot and humid. And I was planning on mixing on a tarp and putting it in totes once it's mixed good. So it's better to drill small holes in the side and not top?


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## Rasta Roy (May 11, 2016)

Vato_504 said:


> Where I live 504 it's real hot and humid. And I was planning on mixing on a tarp and putting it in totes once it's mixed good. So it's better to drill small holes in the side and not top?


The top works too, I just do the sides as a personal preference cause I like to stack tubs on top of each other to save space. But the top works just as well as the side.


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## Rasta Roy (May 11, 2016)

Vato_504 said:


> Where I live 504 it's real hot and humid. And I was planning on mixing on a tarp and putting it in totes once it's mixed good. So it's better to drill small holes in the side and not top?


You shouldn't have to check more than once a week if you live in a humid area but you'll be able to gauge pretty quickly. Good luck!


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## Vato_504 (May 11, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> You shouldn't have to check more than once a week if you live in a humid area but you'll be able to gauge pretty quickly. Good luck!


Thanks fam and I appreciate the advice


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## Organicgrow42 (May 12, 2016)

So I found out BAS and Jeremy Silva is a fraud. Coot is over at grass city in a new no til thread called no til: revisited telling all about it.

I couldn't be more disappointed.


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## Woyaboy (Jun 25, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I'm not recommending you use buildasoil.com. I'm just saying that where someone first pointed out to me how stupid layering your soil is. How espom salts in your soil will throw off your magnesium ratios. I recommend you final a local landscape supplier, to source Hella cheap peat moss and perlite, and if youre lucky a good quality compost. Google for composting places in your area.
> 
> 1 Part Peat moss
> 1 Part Perlite
> ...


What's absolutely bonky about Subs soil is the fact that he has us buying all those bags of Roots Organic...like, why the fuck am I already buying premium potting soil? I could just buy a 1,3, and 5 gallon pot and just up pot and get the same results. Absolutely redundant. What I also don't understand is, if SUPPOSEDLY the roots are going to get to the bottom of the pot much later, then why does he have us adding Mychorrazi? Why Epsom Salt if you're putting Dolomite in it? So many questions....He quite literally just takes all the ingredients available on shelves and mixes it all together.


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## Rasta Roy (Jun 25, 2016)

Woyaboy said:


> What's absolutely bonky about Subs soil is the fact that he has us buying all those bags of Roots Organic...like, why the fuck am I already buying premium potting soil? I could just buy a 1,3, and 5 gallon pot and just up pot and get the same results. Absolutely redundant. What I also don't understand is, if SUPPOSEDLY the roots are going to get to the bottom of the pot much later, then why does he have us adding Mychorrazi? Why Epsom Salt if you're putting Dolomite in it? So many questions....He quite literally just takes all the ingredients available on shelves and mixes it all together.


Amen


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## Woyaboy (Jun 25, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Amen


CAN I GET ANOTHER AMEN??? For the cheap seats?


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## Rasta Roy (Jun 25, 2016)

Woyaboy said:


> CAN I GET ANOTHER AMEN??? For the cheap seats?


Let the choir sing Hallelujah!


----------



## AnimalMother1974 (Jun 26, 2016)

Cann said:


> *The top plant source for silica is probably rice - 140,000 ppm and it takes a bit more work/effort to coax it from the grain but it's doable.
> 
> HTH
> 
> LD"*


So grinding rice and boiling it will make a silica filled liquid?


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## ugmjfarmer (Jul 3, 2016)

I don't get this whole super soil phenomenon. People overloading soil with animal bi-products for nitrogen, too much phosphorus, not a proper calcium balance. Sure it gets results for one crop.. but you all throw the soil out after one grow and start over? that's what is suggested correct? What a waste. Please learn TLO and stop ruining the environment by promoting this what seems wasteful gardening method. or can someone explain how this is good for the environment? It certainly is good for the pockets of roots organics, but you are paying to have that stuff trucked all over. I can get premium materials less than 2 miles away and make my own soil.


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## Rasta Roy (Jul 3, 2016)

ugmjfarmer said:


> I don't get this whole super soil phenomenon. People overloading soil with animal bi-products for nitrogen, too much phosphorus, not a proper calcium balance. Sure it gets results for one crop.. but you all throw the soil out after one grow and start over? that's what is suggested correct? What a waste. Please learn TLO and stop ruining the environment by promoting this what seems wasteful gardening method. or can someone explain how this is good for the environment? It certainly is good for the pockets of roots organics, but you are paying to have that stuff trucked all over. I can get premium materials less than 2 miles away and make my own soil.


You're preaching to the choir! I tried to share this and some of the technical and economic flaws of subs method on a different thread and got accused of participating in a circle jerk. Lol.

Some people are just happy to buy a can of spaghetti sauce and call that a home-cooked meal. Some of us don't feel like we're really cooking unless we're growing basil and garlic and making our own sauce. As long as you're eating I guess!


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## greasemonkeymann (Jul 8, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Amen





Woyaboy said:


> CAN I GET ANOTHER AMEN??? For the cheap seats?





Rasta Roy said:


> Let the choir sing Hallelujah!


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## Mason Jar 92705 (Jul 10, 2016)

Vato_504 said:


> 6 bags of roots organic
> 3 bags of biobizz light mix
> 20 pounds of dolomite lime
> Alfalfa meal
> ...


20 lbs of dolomite lime??? You mean 2-3 cups or a couple handfuls, not 20 lbs. lol


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## Mason Jar 92705 (Jul 10, 2016)

I've been using Sub's mix for the past 4 years and works wonders in my garden. The green, lush, vigorous growth in veg and then the perfect fade. Why try to fix something that isn't broken? I do add a little more animal poop than the original recipe. The mixing of items/ wetting it down and finally sit long enough to break down is the most important. I prefer an 8 week wait. I think the problem is people get impatient don't let it sit or mix good enough, then they get 'ify' results and get pissed off. Just my opinion


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## Rasta Roy (Jul 10, 2016)

Mason Jar 92705 said:


> I've been using Sub's mix for the past 4 years and works wonders in my garden. The green, lush, vigorous growth in veg and then the perfect fade. Why try to fix something that isn't broken? I do add a little more animal poop than the original recipe. The mixing of items/ wetting it down and finally sit long enough to break down is the most important. I prefer an 8 week wait. I think the problem is people get impatient don't let it sit or mix good enough, then they get 'ify' results and get pissed off. Just my opinion


Our main issue is not the recipe...even though there are issues there as well...our issue is with the practice of putting layers of soil in a container. 

You layer compost as a top dressing or mix it evenly in your soil.

YOU DONT PUT IT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE POT.


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## Mason Jar 92705 (Jul 10, 2016)

I don't layer my SS either. The bottom 2/3 of the pot is Roots and the SS mixed together by hand and the top half, only Roots.


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## Rasta Roy (Jul 10, 2016)

Mason Jar 92705 said:


> I don't layer my SS either. The bottom half of the pot is Roots and the SS mixed together by hand and the top half, only Roots.


I'm super confused...you said I don't layer...and then you gave a detailed description on how you layer your soil. Am I reading that wrong or are you higher than I am? Lol


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## Mason Jar 92705 (Jul 10, 2016)

What I was trying to say was that the bottom half of my pots aren't just SS only. The bottom 2/3 is around 50/50 of SS and Roots. Yeah, I've been smoking this morning already


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## Rasta Roy (Jul 10, 2016)

Nutrients in nature come from the top...not the bottom...why put your nutrient rich materials at the bottom of the pot, they belong up top or evenly distributed throughout the medium. So if anything... Your pot should be just whatever your potting soil is...and then you top dress with a two inch layer of your SS, and refresh that top dressing once a month.


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## Rasta Roy (Jul 10, 2016)

Mason Jar 92705 said:


> What I was trying to say was that the bottom half of my pots aren't just SS only. The bottom 2/3 is around 50/50 of SS and Roots. Yeah, I've been smoking this morning already


Why not mix it all in evenly though? Or go the above said top dressing route? 

Have you ever read this?
http://buildasoil.com/blogs/news/12533881-whats-so-cool-about-super-soil-the-super-soil-recipe-breakdown


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## Mason Jar 92705 (Jul 10, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Nutrients in nature come from the top...not the bottom...why put your nutrient rich materials at the bottom of the pot, they belong up top or evenly distributed throughout the medium. So if anything... Your pot should be just whatever your potting soil is...and then you top dress with a two inch layer of your SS, and refresh that top dressing once a month.


Yeah, I hear what you're saying but I'm not growing outside in the ground, this is indoors in pots. Whether the SS is on the bottom or top-dressed, it's not gonna make a difference. We're talking about a 10 gal. pot.


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## Mason Jar 92705 (Jul 10, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Why not mix it all in evenly though? Or go the above said top dressing route?
> 
> Have you ever read this?
> http://buildasoil.com/blogs/news/12533881-whats-so-cool-about-super-soil-the-super-soil-recipe-breakdown


And I've done that before, mixing the SS and Roots altogether and worked like a charm too  I'll check out that link


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## Rasta Roy (Jul 10, 2016)

Mason Jar 92705 said:


> Yeah, I hear what you're saying but I'm not growing outside in the ground, this is indoors in pots. Whether the SS is on the bottom or top-dressed, it's not gonna make a difference. We're talking about a 10 gal. pot.


I respectfully disagree sir, it makes a huge difference because it's in a 10 gallon pot instead of outside. Container gardening works best with an evenly mixed soil.


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## Rasta Roy (Jul 10, 2016)

Mason Jar 92705 said:


> And I've done that before, mixing the SS and Roots altogether and worked like a charm too  I'll check out that link


It's what I would personally recommend! Maybe do some side by sides and compare.


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## ugmjfarmer (Jul 12, 2016)

Heck, Moonshine mix is tilled all the way through and baked for 30-60 and I personally think it kills Michigan M3, Sub's, and 3LB's soils. Compost and Humus is where it's at anyways. Fishnure kills it. Organic White Rice added to soil builds fungi while it bakes. Dragonfly Earth Medicine for veganic plant food. Osa/28, Kelp and fulvic foliar in veg daily. Weekly EM-1. Weekly Kelp meal fed to soil, or Big Bloom. Add a 6 species Endo's at every watering. Harvest your own mycos from nature using buried white rice in cheesecloth underneath some huge old growth tree in the forest. Choir preaching again.. DOH.

where's the crabshell? where's the oyster shell? gypsum? lime? rock dusts? volcanic ash? basalt? rock phosphate? greensand? azomite? you know, things you might find in soil? like clay, sand, silt. I like balance, like nature. there are so many things out there; blood meal is dirty full of antibiotics and growth hormones from cows. Most of this stuff is just peat/coco and subpar drainage like perlite. What about rice hulls? pumice? Neem Seed!!!

/steps off soapbox


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## Grenier5413 (Jul 20, 2016)

Hey could you elaborate a little on the harvesting your own myco . A description on how to or is that it.


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## waterproof808 (Jul 22, 2016)

Being that mycorhizzae only forms when plant roots are present to form a symbtiotic relationship, I dont see how that is possible using white rice. I think he is referring to what the korean natural farming group calls Indigenous Micro-Organisms (IMO's).


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## Grenier5413 (Jul 22, 2016)

Yeah I checked into it. You can harvest them but it's way more complicated than a bag of rice in tree roots.


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## Michiganjesse (Jul 29, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I'm sorry friend, I have to respectfully disagree with you.
> 
> If someone is a newb to organic growing then subs mix is not the best way to get introduced. It is by far from the simplest form of organic growing, it's prone to maintenance issues, it ignores how cannabis root structure actually grows, and it's more expensive. If anything, his mix is more prone to turn someone away from organic growing then onto it.
> 
> ...


Very well put and yes peeps here are here to help is what i have found


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## ugmjfarmer (Aug 27, 2016)

Grenier5413 said:


> Yeah I checked into it. You can harvest them but it's way more complicated than a bag of rice in tree roots.


Yes, IMO's. The rice is a perfect source for the fungal variety of IMO's around old growth trees and they help if you have wood bark in your soil; AKA any Fox Farm's product, Vermifire, ect.

youtube it at /watch?v=yCBJ0rXwILY


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## Muskegman (Sep 12, 2016)

Has anyone ever tried adding anything like voodoo , piranha or bud candy using super soil? I know it's a sensitive issue , mixing all the organic micros with synthetic stuff, and people say it kills stuff , but would it actually kill them all off by adding these types of stuff. Does anyone really know for sure and has anyone ever tried adding these type of supplements?


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## Rasta Roy (Sep 13, 2016)

Muskegman said:


> Has anyone ever tried adding anything like voodoo , piranha or bud candy using super soil? I know it's a sensitive issue , mixing all the organic micros with synthetic stuff, and people say it kills stuff , but would it actually kill them all off by adding these types of stuff. Does anyone really know for sure and has anyone ever tried adding these type of supplements?


Yeah man it definitely kills them off and is a bit of a redundant waste of money. Most "organic" boosters are just potassium or carbohydrates and kelp, some have alfalfa or humic acid. Some are mineral or chemical base. Most of them are just watered down bottled versions of what we already have fresh and more biologically active in our soil or applied in freshly made teas.

If you want to boost plant growth spend money on a quality air conditioner, co2 supplementation (a tank and a ppm reader), lots of room fans, and a good exhaust fan. Also whatever you need to create a properly sealed room. That investment in your setup will do more for you to get quality plants and a better yield than buying some watered down potash and molasses with a preservative to dump on your plant and kill your microbe population.


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## Muskegman (Sep 13, 2016)

Dang you said what I was thinking I should do. My setup isn't the best but it's decent. It's a 8x12 veg room with a 6 in intake and outtake and 12x12x8 flower room that is completely lined with white , a 8 inch outtake and 6 inch outtake. With a 8 in. I take fan. I have three oscillating fans going and a dehumidifier if need be. The room is t attached to my house though and doesn't have siding on it. Just Tyvec for now until next pay day. I'm running three 600 watts HPS in my flower room and a G8 LED 600 watt in veg room with another 600 watt MH. The most I've gotten off a plant is 3.59 OZ. followed subs super soil exactly , waited two months before using it. Growing blue dream, blueberry, cheese, purple kush. Wanting bigger yields though like everyone else lol I'm runnin 60 days veg and around 60 flower. CO2 is out of the question though. Nowhere to get it here where I live in Alaska .


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## Rasta Roy (Sep 13, 2016)

Muskegman said:


> Dang you said what I was thinking I should do. My setup isn't the best but it's decent. It's a 8x12 veg room with a 6 in intake and outtake and 12x12x8 flower room that is completely lined with white , a 8 inch outtake and 6 inch outtake. With a 8 in. I take fan. I have three oscillating fans going and a dehumidifier if need be. The room is t attached to my house though and doesn't have siding on it. Just Tyvec for now until next pay day. I'm running three 600 watts HPS in my flower room and a G8 LED 600 watt in veg room with another 600 watt MH. The most I've gotten off a plant is 3.59 OZ. followed subs super soil exactly , waited two months before using it. Growing blue dream, blueberry, cheese, purple kush. Wanting bigger yields though like everyone else lol I'm runnin 60 days veg and around 60 flower. CO2 is out of the question though. Nowhere to get it here where I live in Alaska .


They say with proper intake and outtake you shouldn't need co2 (I haven't found this true), that fresh Alaskan air might be enough for you though! 

How many plants do you do per light?

But yeah man...subs super soil isn't that super haha. I made a video about it sort of...I was pretty medicated haha.






I would just recommend when you recycle your soil just reamend with worm castings (your own is best but if you don't want a bin I get it), and compost. 

Like for every 7 gallons of recycled soil I would do a gallon and a half of castings and compost each. Then mix into that fish meal, and oyster shell flour or gypsum. Crab shell meal if you can get it. Mix in 1/2 cup of each per ten gallons.

If you can get neem meal then I would top dress with a 1/2 cup per plant. Anytime I see anything wrong with my plants I top dress with neem meal and worm castings and apply a freshly steeped kelp tea. Clears it all up.

Get alfalfa meal and kelp meal. 1 tbsp per gallon of water, let it sit for twenty four hours before you apply. Use a cheese cloth or paint strainer to filter out the gunk and you can apply as a foliar spray.

Using the kelp and alfalfa together is great for after you transplant.

Just alfalfa is great for in veg. 

Kelp tea is great anytime. Especially in early bloom, if you want the best boost.

If you got the air stone going worm teas are good to throw in there.

Increasing your pot size and upping to 1000 watt lights would be your next move. Depending on how many plants per light you do it sounds like you do pretty good with 600s though!


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## Muskegman (Sep 13, 2016)

Thank you. I'm running three plants under each 600 at the moment. I do have some organic kelp tea but haven't wanted to throw anything in the super soil afraid of ruining it ya know. The stuff is called kelp man. It was expensive shit . It's extracted from the fastest growing kelp in the world , which grows here where I live , and also in BC Canada where they extract it . It grows like a foot a day so I would think is good stuff with tons of macros in it . As far as my soil goes, i have all that stuff in the soil as that is what it calls for , but I've never top dressed or anything . I did go collect some of the Kelp here and out it in a 55 gal drum and it's been sitting there for months now . It smells ripe to say the least. Should I filter it and use this ? Thanks for all the good info. I'm gonna try some of this and see what happens. One question though, you mention air stone but I'm using soil so what exactly are you referring too?


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## Grenier5413 (Sep 13, 2016)

You use the air stone to cook your compost teas and things like that.


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## Grenier5413 (Sep 13, 2016)

Put it in a bucket with water and a sock or cheese cloth full of compost or whatever your cooking and let it bubble and oxygenate the micro life. Helps it grow and take off.


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## subcoolgrower (Sep 18, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> They say with proper intake and outtake you shouldn't need co2 (I haven't found this true), that fresh Alaskan air might be enough for you though!
> 
> How many plants do you do per light?
> 
> ...


I'm glad you found a method you like I'd never use cow shit but rock on. Were pulling 2 pounds per light now with supersoil that cost 120$ every 3 crops we all have our methods and I salute you but please don't trash my recipe many multi million dollar companies use my recipe as there base.

Nothing but love your garden looks amazing

Sub


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## subcoolgrower (Sep 18, 2016)

subcoolgrower said:


> I'm glad you found a method you like I'd never use cow shit but rock on. Were pulling 2 pounds per light now with supersoil that cost 120$ every 3 crops we all have our methods and I salute you but please don't trash my recipe many multi million dollar companies use my recipe as there base.
> 
> Nothing but love your garden looks amazing
> 
> Sub


I dont have rabbits 

Sub


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## Rasta Roy (Sep 18, 2016)

subcoolgrower said:


> I'm glad you found a method you like I'd never use cow shit but rock on. Were pulling 2 pounds per light now with supersoil that cost 120$ every 3 crops we all have our methods and I salute you but please don't trash my recipe many multi million dollar companies use my recipe as there base.
> 
> Nothing but love your garden looks amazing
> 
> Sub


I had my reservations but am able to source locally from a trusted organic dairy farm so I'm giving it a shot for experience sake. 

And I got nothing but love...but my love is tough and competitive friend! I'm developing fertilizer formulas and potting soils, I'm coming for those multimillionaire companies! Hope you keep your skills sharp fam, I learn new stuff everyday. Our competition is what will drive innovation in the industry.


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## smink13 (Oct 6, 2016)

@subcoolgrower Hey Sub, curious to think what response you would have to this post about Supersoil. I've been trying to understand your method for years as to why this and not that. Jeremy at buildasoil breaks down each ingredient you add and explains why it may or may not work. 

Curious if you had any reputable to his comments.


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## subcoolgrower (Oct 8, 2016)

smink13 said:


> @subcoolgrower Hey Sub, curious to think what response you would have to this post about Supersoil. I've been trying to understand your method for years as to why this and not that. Jeremy at buildasoil breaks down each ingredient you add and explains why it may or may not work.
> 
> Curious if you had any reputable to his comments.


It's simple. Thousands of Growers use this recipe, I developed it from Vic Highs Simple recipe. I do not charge for soil and I've never made a dime. Many soil companies use this recipe as there base.

Its simple its a concentrated soil we use to pull 2 units a light is with very little additional food.

The pics are of cultivars grown in super soil water only

Sub


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## subcoolgrower (Oct 8, 2016)

BTW I am now adding Insect Frass

Sub


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## Rasta Roy (Oct 8, 2016)

subcoolgrower said:


> It's simple. Thousands of Growers use this recipe, I developed it from Vic Highs Simple recipe. I do not charge for soil and I've never made a dime. Many soil companies use this recipe as there base.
> 
> Its simple its a concentrated soil we use to pull 2 units a light is with very little additional food.
> 
> ...


You didn't answer his question fam! He was talking about this blog...

https://buildasoil.com/blogs/news/12533881-whats-so-cool-about-super-soil-the-super-soil-recipe-breakdown

And wondering why you layer your soil even though it goes against science.

And wondering why you have people buying prebagged amended soil when they're already adding amendments. Having them buy peat moss and aeration would be cheaper and provide more consistent results as bagged soils even of the same brand,can vary batch to batch.


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## Sir Stickybuds (Oct 9, 2016)

He's answered these questions many time, he does it "cause it works" period


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## Rasta Roy (Oct 9, 2016)

Sir Stickybuds said:


> He's answered these questions many time, he does it "cause it works" period


Lots of things work lol. The idea behind knowing why something works, or why something is being done. Is so we can examine and know, is this the most efficient way to do things? Is it the most effective? It's science fam! Science that can't be questioned or answered questions isn't science it's a cult. Cults foster ignorance and ignorance leads to injustice. And an injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. 

That's why we need a better answer than "cause it works."


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## platt (Oct 9, 2016)

https://buildasoil.com/blogs/news/12533881-whats-so-cool-about-super-soil-the-super-soil-recipe-breakdown ---- Its a hoax, RRoy. Even if all that data is aligned with 95% riu fellas its still a hoax (those first 3 items explanation, his mood..). It also should be noted they are probably two brains involved in the writing of that shit.


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## Rasta Roy (Oct 9, 2016)

platt said:


> https://buildasoil.com/blogs/news/12533881-whats-so-cool-about-super-soil-the-super-soil-recipe-breakdown ---- Its a hoax, RRoy. Even if all that data is aligned with 95% riu fellas its still a hoax (those first 3 items explanation, his mood..). It also should be noted they are probably two brains involved in the writing of that shit.


Forgive me my brother, my medicine is too strong I'm confused about what your calling a hoax lol.


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## platt (Oct 9, 2016)

its like a scam without a monetary profit.


It also should be noted he has kickass products for the researcher. I dont see the cement mixer to mix things properly but its ok


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## Rasta Roy (Oct 9, 2016)

platt said:


> its like a scam without a monetary profit.
> 
> 
> It also should be noted he has kickass products


Okay you're referring to the super soil recipe lol. That's what I thought. Yeah I don't know why @subcool encourages people to buy ingredients they don't need if he's not profiting off it lol. Doesn't make much sense.

My introduction to organic growing thread gives a method that makes you learn about what your plants needs and gives a recipe suggestion that doesn't involve expensive and inconsistent quality prebagged soils. But with the knowledge of what you're doing and why you're doing it you can tweak it to meet your needs.


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## Grenier5413 (Oct 9, 2016)

I've never seen the recipe in full however I've used a lot of the ingredients in my own soil mix for the last fifteen years. I don't believe in layering but that's besides the point. I try to put in things that happen in nature and things I know plants like. You don't build a soil and use it right away. It needs to compost just like nature. Most nutrients are held in the top few inches of nature's floor. and they didn't get there immediately. Not sure what the fuss is about. If you don't like the recipe don't use it or change it to your needs. If you all are such experts on soil why did you use his recipe instead of building your own. And if you know so much you shouldn't need to ask questions in the first place.


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## Grenier5413 (Oct 9, 2016)

Grenier5413 said:


> I've never seen the recipe in full however I've used a lot of the ingredients in my own soil mix for the last fifteen years. I don't believe in layering but that's besides the point. I try to put in things that happen in nature and things I know plants like. You don't build a soil and use it right away. It needs to compost just like nature. Most nutrients are held in the top few inches of nature's floor. and they didn't get there immediately. Not sure what the fuss is about. If you don't like the recipe don't use it or change it to your needs. If you all are such experts on soil why did you use his recipe instead of building your own. And if you know so much you shouldn't need to ask questions in the first place.


Nd if anyone is buying soil that is free to make from nature's bounty than I don't where to even start.


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## platt (Oct 9, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Okay you're referring to the super soil recipe lol. That's what I thought. Yeah I don't know why @subcool encourages people to buy ingredients they don't need if he's not profiting off it lol. Doesn't make much sense.
> 
> My introduction to organic growing thread gives a method that makes you learn about what your plants needs and gives a recipe suggestion. But with the knowledge of what you're doing and why you're doing it uou can tweak it to meet your needs.


nom nom i was giving my 2 cents about the article of buildasoil dude^

The first reaction for the educated grower is answering. But in case of scam...better dont feed the troll you know


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## Rasta Roy (Oct 9, 2016)

platt said:


> nom nom i was giving my 2 cents about the article of buildasoil dude^
> 
> The first reaction for the educated grower is answering. But in case of scam...better dont feed the troll you know


I don't see the scam... Elaborate please.


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## iHearAll (Oct 9, 2016)

you can learn alot from "expert recipes". if you can understand another person's input and believe their success stories then you can implement what you have around you to perform comparably. but if you do it _this _way it _will_ work. ya know? like what skill set is that really advertising towards? the new growers or those switching from hydro. most people dont go right into microbiology while growing lol that's something we kinda pick up after trying to entertain ourselves


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## platt (Oct 10, 2016)

https://buildasoil.com/blogs/news/12533881-whats-so-cool-about-super-soil-the-super-soil-recipe-breakdown

just scroll down to BowlReapa's answer, dude. Its a matter of reaching that knowledge. Correct indexed thoughts imo, science+holistics


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## iHearAll (Oct 10, 2016)

that's pretty good read


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## Rasta Roy (Oct 10, 2016)

platt said:


> https://buildasoil.com/blogs/news/12533881-whats-so-cool-about-super-soil-the-super-soil-recipe-breakdown
> 
> just scroll down to BowlReapa's answer, dude. Its a matter of reaching that knowledge. Correct indexed thoughts imo, science+holistics


I'll hop on his magnesium bus...but I still think buying bagged soil is an enormous waste of money. Lol.

And on the subject of mycos....I think they're a waste of money...I did a side by side last year with a control group that didn't have it used. I dropped mycos after that. Hear we are a year later and I can compare growth charts and see my yields and growth rates didn't suffer at all from dropping it. I believe they exist on their own in good compost but I would need confirmation from science.


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## iHearAll (Oct 10, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I'll hop on his magnesium bus...but I still think buying bagged soil is an enormous waste of money. Lol.
> 
> And on the subject of mycos....I think they're a waste of money...I did a side by side last year with a control group that didn't have it used. I dropped mycos after that. Hear we are a year later and I can compare growth charts and see my yields and growth rates didn't suffer at all from dropping it. I believe they exist on their own in good compost but I would need confirmation from science.


im pretty sure you're right. cuz in biodynamics you add hummates to your compost when your prep it. but they also teach you how to make hummates from foraged materials. since you can make hummates using decomposition then i would assume composting is the same process but not isolating the hummates like BD500 and such


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## smink13 (Oct 11, 2016)

@subcoolgrower thoughts on the buildasoil article? We know your out therrrrreeee. No one is trying to knock anyone's hustle and I give the man props for putting together his own "blend" that seemed to work for him and some others. 
I just simply would like to know his response to thoughts that someone has learned from a lot of the people we also call mentors. Coot, mofo ect.

I used subs soil when I first started out, a lot of people have because he gave his information away for free, unlike many others so mad props to the man for that. But, we also didn't have much else to try and since a lot of us were learning we leaned on a mix that seemed to work. 

Well, it did for a little and then not at all for me. I struggled w what I was doing wrong and it made me a better grower because I had to research a lot more. Again, props to you sub, not even trying to sound like a dick cuz I'm sure you would tell me that you were hoping to get everyone thinking about what a mix is and to experiment w what worked for them, well at least that is what I would hope you would say.

All that aside, I'm just looking for reasons behind his specifics. If you are specific about something, I'd just like to know why. When someone that knows a little about no til gardening and just organic farming in general, has legitimate claims against something, I'm just curious as to the response. Not about calling a man out. 

If your shit works, and you stand behind it, this shouldn't be a very hard question to answer.


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## platt (Oct 11, 2016)

smink13 said:


> If you are specific about something, I'd just like to know why.


you are gonna make me cry^

He's just busy


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## smink13 (Oct 20, 2016)

He wasn't busy when he first tried to defend his methods with generalities. I ask for specifics to someone who is citing specifics and it's cricket cricket. Come one sub, it isn't hard, especially for someone with so much knowledge. If you have explained it before, simply post a link. He's all over instagram everyday...don't fucking tell me he is too busy cuz you are one of his fanboys. 

It's a simple question, that I believe a lot of us growers deserve answered considering people buy his fucking pre bagged supersoil and eat up his "knowledge" because they don't know any better. Let's stop confusing people and sending them down a road they may not want to go. I know I didn't when I found out that it isn't working as advertised. 

Give people the knowledge to understand what you are doing. You give out info all day on instagram but I have yet to see any response the jeremy or to anyone that asks these questions....anywhere.... 

@subcoolgrower


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## smink13 (Oct 27, 2016)

*Cricket*....*cricket*[email protected]

Not gunna go away. Do you do this everywhere cuz I see you all over instagram, almost every hour or 2 so I know you arnt that busy.... just want an answer to a simple question. Even if it's a link to you already answering it.

You havnt, from what I have searched on the web. I find that....odd.

@Rasta Roy


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## Rasta Roy (Oct 27, 2016)

smink13 said:


> *Cricket*....*cricket*[email protected]
> 
> Not gunna go away. Do you do this everywhere cuz I see you all over instagram, almost every hour or 2 so I know you arnt that busy.... just want an answer to a simple question. Even if it's a link to you already answering it.
> 
> ...


Apparently he can pop on to tell you about all the people that use his method...but not the why or how his method works...


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## Chronikool (Nov 11, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I'll hop on his magnesium bus...but I still think buying bagged soil is an enormous waste of money. Lol.
> 
> And on the subject of mycos....I think they're a waste of money...I did a side by side last year with a control group that didn't have it used. I dropped mycos after that. Hear we are a year later and I can compare growth charts and see my yields and growth rates didn't suffer at all from dropping it. I believe they exist on their own in good compost but I would need confirmation from science.


Yup....i dont believe that the mycos make much of a difference to us. By 'us' i mean people building their own soilz, amendments and native microbes


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## MustangStudFarm (Nov 22, 2016)

subcoolgrower said:


> It's simple. Thousands of Growers use this recipe, I developed it from Vic Highs Simple recipe. I do not charge for soil and I've never made a dime. Many soil companies use this recipe as there base.


Is this the "real" SubCool? If so, its cool that you came back!!!


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## Mroutdoors (Dec 3, 2016)

Wow this thread has its ups and downs. When spring gets here I'll be mixing sub's recipe for sure. To be organic and off bottle nutes will be great. I'm new to growing and I'm having a blast. Being able to smoke my own weed, knowing what is in it will be the icing on the cake


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## GrowBrooklyn (Dec 17, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Apparently he can pop on to tell you about all the people that use his method...but not the why or how his method works...


Subcool is a farmer, not a scientist. He shares what works for him. He posts videos and pictures that show his results. If you want to know more, that is great. Do your own fucking research. If you don't want to use his methods, that is fine. If you don't want others to use his methods, which is what it seems like, frankly I don't understand why you care so much. Offer something better. I started using Super Soil about a decade ago. It is easy and it works. I then learned to reuse my soil thru experimentation. Props to subcool for putting up with such nonsense and sharing his technique.


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## GrowBrooklyn (Dec 17, 2016)

smink13 said:


> *Cricket*....*cricket*[email protected]
> 
> Not gunna go away. Do you do this everywhere cuz I see you all over instagram, almost every hour or 2 so I know you arnt that busy.... just want an answer to a simple question. Even if it's a link to you already answering it.
> 
> ...


You know you are just being a jerk right? Subcool does not owe you one second of his time. If you don't want to use his technique and don't want others to, offer something better. We shall see if anyone cares.


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## Rasta Roy (Dec 17, 2016)

GrowBrooklyn said:


> Subcool is a farmer, not a scientist. He shares what works for him. He posts videos and pictures that show his results. If you want to know more, that is great. Do your own fucking research. If you don't want to use his methods, that is fine. If you don't want others to use his methods, which is what it seems like, frankly I don't understand why you care so much. Offer something better. I started using Super Soil about a decade ago. It is easy and it works. I then learned to reuse my soil thru experimentation. Props to subcool for putting up with such nonsense and sharing his technique.


I don't know why you're getting all confrontational with me guy. I share my information.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/organic-growing-an-introductory-guide.921380/

It is better. Enjoy.

Subcool presenting a recipe but not the reason of why it's put together is irresponsible. If he was a farmer...he would understand that.


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## GrowBrooklyn (Dec 17, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I don't know why you're getting all confrontational with me guy. I share my information.
> 
> Subcool presenting a recipe but not the reason of why it's put together is irresponsible. If he was a farmer...he would understand that.


I'm confrontational because you are attacking a guy who has done nothing to you, is upfront about his trial and error approach, and shares what he does because people want him to. If you've got your own thing going, cool. Promote that instead of attacking others. Subcool has helped thousands of growers, especially noobs. His posts and videos were of great help to me personally, years ago. Your topic looks interesting and I will check it out, but taking down others who are trying to help in order to promote yourself is plain ugly. You have a choice; don't be that guy.


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## Rasta Roy (Dec 17, 2016)

GrowBrooklyn said:


> I'm confrontational because you are attacking a guy who has done nothing to you, is upfront about his trial and error approach, and shares what he does because people want him to. If you've got your own thing going, cool. Promote that instead of attacking others.


Says the guy currently attacking others...I never knew my father man, I'm a real bastard. 

You can come at me if that is your wish...but don't come at me saying I shouldn't come at others. That's just silly.


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## Jubilant (Dec 17, 2016)

I just don't think asking the questions that were asked were "coming at" someone. Subcool opened the door to organics for a lot of people but should the method stop there? It appears Sub wishes to amend the recipe as he stated so it's clear he is still "perfecting" his craft so why is healthy conversation about the practicality of the method being so negatively received? We should always ask "Is this the best method" even when tried and true, learning never stops, progress should not halt.


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## GrowBrooklyn (Dec 17, 2016)

If you guys think that your posts represent "healthy conversation,' well no friend of mine talks to me this way. What I see is bullying and folks acting like they are owed something. I can see I made a mistake coming back to rollitup. Still filled with self important people who do not know how to treat others with kindness. I'm guessing subcool won't stick around for very long either, which is a shame.


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## GrowBrooklyn (Dec 17, 2016)

Gonna go smoke a fatty of Blackjack (Holy Grail Kush x Timewreck). Super potent and tastes like the gum of the same name. My cross. Learned how to do it from Subcool, who showed me that it is very easy to do. Thanks dude!


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## Jubilant (Dec 17, 2016)

Rasta Roy is nothing but a kind, helpful, and positive member of this community. Talking about methods especially when people disagree is important, the more experience that is shared the better all our gardens can become. 

If your method is challenged it is generally expected to have some defense given, beside "lot's of people do it" and I think that is fair for anyone to expect of someone. What I mean by "someone" is a person that is putting themselves out there as a knowledge source and continuing to put content out. While I agree they don't owe anyone anything it would be nice to hear research/time/consideration was put into the work rather than "I made it, a bunch of people use, and it it works" That's how quack doctor made money selling random chemicals on the street in the early 1900s. 

I think a lot of it is text comes across as more condescending/rude/attitude filled than we intend and when a "hot topic" is discussed it can cause tension to raise


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## Rasta Roy (Dec 17, 2016)

GrowBrooklyn said:


> I'm confrontational because you are attacking a guy who has done nothing to you, is upfront about his trial and error approach, and shares what he does because people want him to. If you've got your own thing going, cool. Promote that instead of attacking others. Subcool has helped thousands of growers, especially noobs. His posts and videos were of great help to me personally, years ago. Your topic looks interesting and I will check it out, but taking down others who are trying to help in order to promote yourself is plain ugly. You have a choice; don't be that guy.


I believe we all get better by challenging each other and I apologize that I am a bit brash. But where I was raised a little good natured shit talking amongst peers is standard for challenging conversation. It's not like I'm out here saying "fuck you subcool don't grow". I'm saying if your method is so great, why does it work? I do my best to explain myself. I just encourage my peers to do the same. I want y'all to be farmers and professional medicinal crop cultivators and how can you do that if you don't understand why you're doing what you're doing? 

Should I assume subcool's recipe is just stolen from others and he hasn't actually taken the time to research the why behind what he's doing? Because that's a popular opinion, if I were him I would want to clear that up.

Don't feel discouraged from coming around because of a little information related shit talking friend! We're all still here to help each other and learn. That's why we come so hard at someone who just says their method works because it works.


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## Jubilant (Dec 18, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I believe we all get better by challenging each other and I apologize that I am a bit brash. But where I was raised a little good natured shit talking amongst peers is standard for challenging conversation. It's not like I'm out here saying "fuck you subcool don't grow". I'm saying if your method is so great, why does it work? I do my best to explain myself. I just encourage my peers to do the same. I want y'all to be farmers and professional medicinal crop cultivators and how can you do that if you don't understand why you're doing what you're doing?
> 
> Should I assume subcool's recipe is just stolen from others and he hasn't actually taken the time to research the why behind what he's doing? Because that's a popular opinion, if I were him I would want to clear that up.
> 
> Don't feel discouraged from coming around because of a little information related shit talking friend! We're all still here to help each other and learn. That's why we come so hard at someone who just says their method works because it works.


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## subcoolgrower (Dec 21, 2016)

smink13 said:


> He wasn't busy when he first tried to defend his methods with generalities. I ask for specifics to someone who is citing specifics and it's cricket cricket. Come one sub, it isn't hard, especially for someone with so much knowledge. If you have explained it before, simply post a link. He's all over instagram everyday...don't fucking tell me he is too busy cuz you are one of his fanboys.
> 
> It's a simple question, that I believe a lot of us growers deserve answered considering people buy his fucking pre bagged supersoil and eat up his "knowledge" because they don't know any better. Let's stop confusing people and sending them down a road they may not want to go. I know I didn't when I found out that it isn't working as advertised.
> 
> ...


First Off I do not and have never sold Super Soil its simply a recipe based on a more basic recipe from Vic High who also taught me about the krebs cycle..I have never made a dime from soil.
I have no idea what your question is thousands of people around the planet use my recipe in one form or other and get great results.
if a grower finds something that he likes better by all means use it.

My super soil recipe is on google and you tube and a dozen other platforms where people make it and show the method.


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## subcoolgrower (Dec 21, 2016)

smink13 said:


> *Cricket*....*cricket*[email protected]
> 
> Not gunna go away. Do you do this everywhere cuz I see you all over instagram, almost every hour or 2 so I know you arnt that busy.... just want an answer to a simple question. Even if it's a link to you already answering it.
> 
> ...


I pop on Rollitup from time to time I dont have time for forums and I do IG at stop lights it takes up no time and this does dealing with a bunch of kids that just want drama.
Use the recipe or dont it really dosn't matter to me, Jill and I have 12 Cans made for winter.

Sub


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## subcoolgrower (Dec 21, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I believe we all get better by challenging each other and I apologize that I am a bit brash. But where I was raised a little good natured shit talking amongst peers is standard for challenging conversation. It's not like I'm out here saying "fuck you subcool don't grow". I'm saying if your method is so great, why does it work? I do my best to explain myself. I just encourage my peers to do the same. I want y'all to be farmers and professional medicinal crop cultivators and how can you do that if you don't understand why you're doing what you're doing?
> 
> Should I assume subcool's recipe is just stolen from others and he hasn't actually taken the time to research the why behind what he's doing? Because that's a popular opinion, if I were him I would want to clear that up.
> 
> Don't feel discouraged from coming around because of a little information related shit talking friend! We're all still here to help each other and learn. That's why we come so hard at someone who just says their method works because it works.


Again I dont care about your opinion its a recipe I use, why does it work now clue I assume its a buffet of nutrients and Cannabis is a super energy plant and can take high levels of nutrients its a prehistoric plant.

I have 4 Kids that argue all the time I dont need to adopt more.

Good Growing

Sub


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## subcoolgrower (Dec 21, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> You didn't answer his question fam! He was talking about this blog...
> 
> https://buildasoil.com/blogs/news/12533881-whats-so-cool-about-super-soil-the-super-soil-recipe-breakdown
> 
> ...


Again I do not sell soil never have.

Sub


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## Rasta Roy (Dec 21, 2016)

subcoolgrower said:


> Again I dont care about your opinion its a recipe I use, why does it work now clue I assume its a buffet of nutrients and Cannabis is a super energy plant and can take high levels of nutrients its a prehistoric plant.
> 
> I have 4 Kids that argue all the time I dont need to adopt more.
> 
> ...


No wonder your kids argue all the time man...you never answer questions. With no answers all we have is arguments, lol.


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## platt (Dec 22, 2016)

*https://buildasoil.com/blogs/news/12533881-whats-so-cool-about-super-soil-the-super-soil-recipe-breakdown*

*Keith Sanders on June 10 2014 at 03:11PM*
You are the best. The best. Where can I find a recipe you stand behind? Love your writing. Keep it up. Why can’t you have a published book????


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## Rasta Roy (Dec 22, 2016)

platt said:


> *https://buildasoil.com/blogs/news/12533881-whats-so-cool-about-super-soil-the-super-soil-recipe-breakdown*
> 
> *Keith Sanders on June 10 2014 at 03:11PM*
> You are the best. The best. Where can I find a recipe you stand behind? Love your writing. Keep it up. Why can’t you have a published book????


It's less about a recipe once you understand what you're doing and the amendments you're using. Having that knowledge can also help in building up your soil over time as opposed to creating an ammonia gas pile that has to lose half the nitrogen you put in it before it's acceptable to plant your plants in.


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## GrowBrooklyn (Dec 22, 2016)

If you really do want to know, read Teaming With Nutrients and Teaming With Microbes. Both are quick reads, scientifically rigorous, and have lots of info you can apply to your own garden.


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## GrowBrooklyn (Dec 22, 2016)

Never mind. I don't want to pick a fight.


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## Rasta Roy (Dec 22, 2016)

GrowBrooklyn said:


> If you really do want to know, read Teaming With Nutrients and Teaming With Microbes. Both are quick reads, scientifically rigorous, and have lots of info you can apply to your own garden.


Those are great ones!

There's also tons of great easy to read books on container gardening and raised bed gardening that use pictures and simple charts. How To Grow More Veggies With Less Space was a great resource for me.

Just remember cannabis is an annual with deep roots. treat it like tomatoes or peppers but with a heavier nitrogen regimen early on. So while those garden books might not come out and say, this is how you grow cannabis...When they talk about growing annuals...They're talking about cannabis.

Indoor growers running cycles back to back with no break to do standard outside bed preparation can simply rely on the readdition of readily available nutrient sources like compost, castings, and kelp meal. Reapplied or mixed into the soil every crop rotation along with more aeration and More long term, slow releasing meals, like crab shell meal and fish bone meal, that are added to provide nutrients for later. They are broken down with the fresh microbiology from the castings (or fresh worms themselves as well), along with fungal microbes in the soil. This ensures that no nitrogen or other nutrients are released from the soil in ammonia gas form as a result of thermal composting (aka cooking). Mixing in neem cake can further aid in stopping this nitrification from occuring.


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## Rasta Roy (Dec 22, 2016)

GrowBrooklyn said:


> Never mind. I don't want to pick a fight.


You'll find no fights from me. Just actual information about growing lol.


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## NaturalFarmer (Dec 22, 2016)

I used Subs mix in the past, and it was/is a great way to get started in organics. Can it be improved? Sure. How old is the recipe? I always thought that this would improve Subs recipe...... As we learn more we adjust fire, just as in life.


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## Rasta Roy (Dec 22, 2016)

NaturalFarmer said:


> I used Subs mix in the past, and it was/is a great way to get started in organics. Can it be improved? Sure. I always thought that this would improve Subs recipeView attachment 3859208


I did too, the more I learned and the more I continue to learn, the more I work to reverse the misinformation put forward and prevent the ecological damage caused by subs method.


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## NaturalFarmer (Dec 22, 2016)

I don't really see how others lack of desire to further attain knowledge for themselves is Subs fault though. High phos you are talking?


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## Rasta Roy (Dec 22, 2016)

NaturalFarmer said:


> I don't really see how others lack of desire to further attain knowledge for themselves is Subs fault though. High phos you are talking?


I don't think it's his fault and I'm not trying to attack him as a person. If you attempt to use the internet to learn about organic cannabis his method comes up more than most and so it is the lowest apple on the tree when it comes to managing the spread of misinformation in the cannabis community. 

High phosphorus is a concern, the amount of plastic involved in purchasing excessive amounts of prebagged soil is another. Teaching improper composting methods and the use of environmentally irresponsible and unsustainable materials is another.


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## Mason Jar 92705 (Dec 22, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I did too, the more I learned and the more I continue to learn, the more I work to reverse the misinformation put forward and prevent the ecological damage caused by subs method.


Why are you constantly trying to prove you're so right and Sub is wrong w/ misinformation


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## Mason Jar 92705 (Dec 22, 2016)

Throw up some pics of your organic plants in veg, lets have a look-see. Talk is cheap.


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## Mason Jar 92705 (Dec 22, 2016)

Nothing but a bigger dick contest and always trying to get the last word in on Sub.


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## Rasta Roy (Dec 22, 2016)

Mason Jar 92705 said:


> Why are you constantly trying to prove you're so right and Sub is wrong w/ misinformation


We've been over this, I am a real bastard. Born of unmarried parents. Note the reversed colors of the Targaryen sigil, identifying me with the bastard offshoot house Blackfyre. Because like them, I am of bastard blood. The quote at the bottom of my page is about a character telling another character to never forget that he is a bastard. Everything about the first impression you could get from my posts should say to you "This guy is a bastard." I stir the pot son!


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## Rasta Roy (Dec 22, 2016)

Mason Jar 92705 said:


> Throw up some pics of your organic plants in veg, lets have a look-see. Talk is cheap.


Dog I have multiple threads you can check out, pics and video.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/organic-growing-an-introductory-guide.921380/

You can follow my current grow over at this thread...
https://www.rollitup.org/t/100-gallon-smart-pots-indoors.925831/

You can check out my previous one here...it's a video blog 

https://www.rollitup.org/t/why-you-dont-need-super-soil-video.919925/


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## Rasta Roy (Dec 22, 2016)

Mason Jar 92705 said:


> Nothing but a bigger dick contest and always trying to get the last word in on Sub.


I want to know why he does what he does because I can't find anything in science to support. Only negatives to it. I field messages, emails, and business calls from people having trouble with it. Some even pay me to help them with it. So I really should be on here encouraging more people to check out sub to generate more business for myself but I'm just on a quest for info and every time I get a brick wall of "it works cause it works/I'm not selling any" or "who are you to ask how this works/I don't see a problem, you're a jerk for saying there's a problem".

I share my info and will always throw shade on anybody that doesn't. I want us all to know as much as we can and I don't appreciate information hoarders. There's a lot worse dick measuring contests I could get into.


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## Jubilant (Dec 23, 2016)

subcoolgrower said:


> First Off I do not and have never sold Super Soil its simply a recipe based on a more basic recipe from Vic High who also taught me about the krebs cycle..I have never made a dime from soil.
> I have no idea what your question is thousands of people around the planet use my recipe in one form or other and get great results.
> if a grower finds something that he likes better by all means use it.
> 
> My super soil recipe is on google and you tube and a dozen other platforms where people make it and show the method.


I don't get why you bother responding to all these all your responses appear to be based off of skimming. It's clear you don't have any answers and I don't get why a response is composed other than "I really don't know guys, I kind of just made this and it works"

Wtf does the citric acid cycle have to do with this conversation Sub?


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## smink13 (Dec 23, 2016)

I kept at him because I needed to try to do my part in getting an answer. There isn't one, anywhere on the internet. Just to day do some research, I've done a lot. Trust me. Asking a man to explain, shouldn't nor does it imply, that I don't the answers to my questions. 

Years ago I abandoned subs method. I found out it didn't work for long periods of time and moved on. I see a forum with people years later still talking about it so trying to get some light shed on the subject by a man who created it and is active on the site, in my opinion was a good thing. He seems to always avoid questions so I kept at it. I'm doing my due diligence to get answers, not just for me but for everyone that tried and wasted money ( but gained somr knowledge) and for the future guy or gal that Google how to grow organic and stumbles on this forum, some clarification.

Sub I'm not attacking, just want a response to the article I posted explaining why some amendments are unnecessary and ecological harmful. I don't know why you keep saying you don't make money off soil in response to buildasoil. Fine, you can claim you dont, I'll go with it, just know the buildasoil article is off his blog that explains your recipe to a T and why things do or do not work. This is a man that is one of our peers and not just me or whoever on a forum. 

A simple response was all I was asking for.


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## Mroutdoors (Dec 24, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> We've been over this, I am a real bastard. Born of unmarried parents. Note the reversed colors of the Targaryen sigil, identifying me with the bastard offshoot house Blackfyre. Because like them, I am of bastard blood. The quote at the bottom of my page is about a character telling another character to never forget that he is a bastard. Everything about the first impression you could get from my posts should say to you "This guy is a bastard." I stir the pot son!


Dude you need some therapy. Seriously your self astime is pitiful. It's tuff around the holidays for people who have mental issues. God bless you


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## Rasta Roy (Dec 24, 2016)

Mroutdoors said:


> Dude you need some therapy. Seriously your self astime is pitiful. It's tuff around the holidays for people who have mental issues. God bless you


The quality of my marijuana was questioned so I wrote something only someone high AF on quality organic cannabis would write. Filled it with Game of Thrones nerdiness, and lots of sarcasm. If you read the Song of Ice and Fire novels you would've been geeking out over my comment lol.

Me and some others were just trying to get some more specific questions answered and sub was being a dismissive older brother about it, while his fanclub chimed in with shouts of "how dare you question the master!"

I respond to ridiculousness with ridiculousness.

Thanks for your prayers tho bro!


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## DANKSWAG (Dec 25, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I want to know why he does what he does because I can't find anything in science to support. Only negatives to it. I field messages, emails, and business calls from people having trouble with it. Some even pay me to help them with it. So I really should be on here encouraging more people to check out sub to generate more business for myself but I'm just on a quest for info and every time I get a brick wall of "it works cause it works/I'm not selling any" or "who are you to ask how this works/I don't see a problem, you're a jerk for saying there's a problem".
> 
> I share my info and will always throw shade on anybody that doesn't. I want us all to know as much as we can and I don't appreciate information hoarders. There's a lot worse dick measuring contests I could get into.


Rasta, I actually remember a video Subcool posted giving a lecture on how to mix his soil, I am paraphrasing here, but he said something like this.
"I can't tell you why it works, I am not a scientist I just know it does, you'll have to ask them your question about what is happening in my soil"
Its out there his own admission that he does his soil mix the way he does cause it works, yet he is changing it as he doesn't understand what is taking place biology wise so I believe his adjustments are best guesses on his part on what he thinks the soil needs. Obviously would be hard for him to accurately understand what is needed by his own admission he doesn't know what is going on at the microherd level. His mix and adjustments are observations he's experienced, so for those who want a plug and play system, that works but we know it is not optimal or sufficient in knowledge to truly address or create holistic permaculture practices that would support a healthier ecosystem then just mixing a store bought cake mix. As an analogy we can produce a better tasting more nutritious cake from our pantry using less ingredients and a bottomless cake at that.

Dankswag


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## DANKSWAG (Dec 25, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> It's less about a recipe once you understand what you're doing and the amendments you're using. Having that knowledge can also help in building up your soil over time as opposed to creating an ammonia gas pile that has to lose half the nitrogen you put in it before it's acceptable to plant your plants in.


In the world securing data, anyone can click a icon, but if you don't understand the code behind or security principles in general, no amount of clicking is going to secure your data properly, it may be secure for awhile until a ROOT FEEDING NEMATODE MAKES YOUR PLANTS ROOTS INTO MUSH AND YOUR PLANT WITHERS BEFORE YOUR EYES IN SUPERSOIL. Adding just anything more from the recipe will not make the ROOT FEEDING NEMATODE GO AWAY!

For wanna be hackers there are pre made scripts for script kiddies, for wanna be organic farmers there is Super Soil.
Real hackers write their own code, real organic growers produce their own microbiology to feed the micro herd which takes care of everything Super Soil can't.

DANKSWAG


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## subcoolgrower (Dec 26, 2016)

I guess you guys are much smarter than me.
I will repeat I use super soil and I am always making small changes. My latest was Insect Frass
I don't sell my soil and I have taught thousands to make there own soil and get rid of bottled nutrients.
Soil King sells a very similar mix and he seems to be doing very well in the soil business.
It works incredibly well for me and Jill and many Nerds
I am pulling 2.5 units per bulb and my clubs seem to love what I do.
If you guys want to spend you life talking about soil go for it.

Only here would people attack someone for teaching something to others for 40 years.


If you really want some good info ask me about investing thats my Jam these days.
Weed Kinda grows itself.

Back to Work

Sub


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## brimck325 (Dec 26, 2016)

u mean stealing from others......


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## subcoolgrower (Dec 26, 2016)

I was serious about investment advise but what ever 

OK Jokes on Me what The hell and I doing arguing with Trolls?
I know better.

I'm Out

Sub


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## Rasta Roy (Dec 27, 2016)

subcoolgrower said:


> I was serious about investment advise but what ever
> 
> OK Jokes on Me what The hell and I doing arguing with Trolls?
> I know better.
> ...


Yeah dude don't get into it with trolls. 

If you're not interested in chatting soil science cause you got better things to do I totally get it. That answer would've shut me up a lot quicker than the "i don't sell this soil" but I get why you're saying that too. Sorry im an ass in conversation, I was just genuinely interested in your thoughts on the matter, even though I may have asked with jabs and sarcasm. My bad.

Investing is what it's all about! You playing with the stocks and bonds markets, or you playing the local game with flipping foreclosed houses and upcoming development projects?


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## NaturalFarmer (Dec 27, 2016)

Has anybody done a real soil test with the mix?


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## Rasta Roy (Dec 27, 2016)

NaturalFarmer said:


> Has anybody done a real soil test with the mix?


There's an info graph floating around the internet that illustrated the out of whack magnesium levels...But it's legitimacy is questionable.


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## subcoolgrower (Dec 27, 2016)

NaturalFarmer said:


> Has anybody done a real soil test with the mix?


Yes TGA soil was once mass produced by my ex partner and the recipe was analysed by some of the top soil scientist.
In the end the shipping killed the profits he lost his ass and I lost a good friend.

Do my plants look like the soil is out of wack?



Sub


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## subcoolgrower (Dec 27, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Yeah dude don't get into it with trolls.
> 
> If you're not interested in chatting soil science cause you got better things to do I totally get it. That answer would've shut me up a lot quicker than the "i don't sell this soil" but I get why you're saying that too. Sorry im an ass in conversation, I was just genuinely interested in your thoughts on the matter, even though I may have asked with jabs and sarcasm. My bad.
> 
> Investing is what it's all about! You playing with the stocks and bonds markets, or you playing the local game with flipping foreclosed houses and upcoming development projects?


I buy Blue Chips Like Google, Apple, Amazon, Visa, Express Scripts and McDonalds.
I differ my max IRA contribution each year its like 14K I also can differ like 12K for Jill.
I then use this fund to buy stocks.
It is willed to my kids.

Most people do not save any money in there life, I dont plan to leave my kids nothing like my dad did.

Sub


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## subcoolgrower (Dec 27, 2016)

smink13 said:


> I kept at him because I needed to try to do my part in getting an answer. There isn't one, anywhere on the internet. Just to day do some research, I've done a lot. Trust me. Asking a man to explain, shouldn't nor does it imply, that I don't the answers to my questions.
> 
> Years ago I abandoned subs method. I found out it didn't work for long periods of time and moved on. I see a forum with people years later still talking about it so trying to get some light shed on the subject by a man who created it and is active on the site, in my opinion was a good thing. He seems to always avoid questions so I kept at it. I'm doing my due diligence to get answers, not just for me but for everyone that tried and wasted money ( but gained somr knowledge) and for the future guy or gal that Google how to grow organic and stumbles on this forum, some clarification.
> 
> ...


Can You link me to this article?

You do know that these were grown in Super Soil Correct?


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## subcoolgrower (Dec 27, 2016)

I have not used this guys specific recipe or products, but in criticizing Subcool’s recipe, he utilizes several logical fallacies and also misunderstands and misrepresents several important factors in how plants and microbes grow and thrive. Though I think that the writer has a lot of monetary motivation in composing this post, it is good that he gets people actually thinking and building a healthy skepticism, rather than just lapping up the drool from Subcool’s immortal lips without actually processing and and understanding. Anyway, copy and paste this where ever you need to on whatever forum.

1. Using bagged soil is not a problem,
if you look at the ingredients on any bag, it lists the ingredients from highest to lowest quantity in the mix. Second, if you use the eye test, you can generally tell if a soil is hot or not based upon how much moss and aeration components you see in it.

Another thing, just because in nature nutrients generally come from above, not below (ie. mulch and topdressing) this does not mean that this is how things SHOULD be. This is what is called an “Appeal to Nature” fallacy. Just because it occurs like this in nature does not mean that this is the best way. Plants respond well to foliar feeding of non-gaseous nutrients, how often does this happen in nature??

2. Mycos are conditionally symbiotic microbes. 
They create large networks that can transport nutrients from one side of the enclosure to the other. They do this with or without the presence of a host plant, regardless if planted in the rootzone or not. THe idea that mycos are a waste if not planted in the root zone, just because that is how most people generally use mycos is a fallacy. People generally only put into the rootzone because you can use less and it saves money. Subcool uses mycos in this case to predigest the nutrients throughout the soil, such as the rock phosphate, the bone meal and other nutrients that take time to break down. Once transplanted, a plant will link with this myco network that is already in place.

3. The wide range of worm castings is kind of odd, but it is known that worm castings are mild plant food that doesn’t generally have the potential to burn plants. Using more is not a real danger to the plant. Plus, if he suggests that you use a range of 6-8 bags of high quality soil, shouldnt there also be a range on how much work casting you use as well?

4. Bone meal. 
The writer is correct that fish bone meal is generally safer and healthier for plants, but he mischaracterizes bone and blood meal as coming from “McDonald cows”. THe problem is that fish bone meal has its own set of risks that may be just as bad. They can often contain heavy metals and radioactive isotopes due to constant exposure to the vast pollution in our oceans, and in addition, fish bone meal STINKS!!! My point is that there are risks in any choice you make. This is just a case of the writer trying to knock Subcools soil down a peg. He after all is trying to sell his product online, which is difficult considering using Sub’s excellent recipe, you only need access to a local garden store, which will undoubtedly offer much better prices.

5. ROck phosphate. Okay this ingredient sucks. Research shows that rock phosphate does not break down in a sufficient amount of time to be used for an annual, it is a long term soil ammendment. In addition, environmental research shows that runoff from soils containing rock phosphate poison our water supply. A terrible soil amendment on all levels really.

6. Epsom Salt. 
THis is a great point the writer made about Cal/Mag soil composition, and it brings up an interesting discussion. The ideal Ca/Mg ratios are around 7:1.. Epsom is all Mg and Sulfur. This appears to throw the ratio off. However, I have NEVER had tight soil problems, and neither have others. Now this may be for multiple reasons:

a. Tap water generally has ~4x more calcium than magnesium
b. Dolomite has a Ca/Mg ratio of about 2:1. This is still not the right ratio, but it balances the epsom salt a bit. Add in the fact that water has more Ca, it is starting to sound more reasonable.
c. Calcium DOES NOT move through soil or plants easily and most soils already have lots of calcium in them. It only leaches out of the soil or becomes unavailable if there is high levels of Sodium or if the pH of the soil is too low (acidic). Magnesium on the other hand, can move through the soil much easier and leach out.

Add all of these factors together and you can start to see why it doesn’t neccesarily matter early on if there is a lot of magnesium if you only use regular water, these things tend to balance themselves out.
7. The only problem with dolomite is the argument for incorrect Ca/Mg ratios.However, Dolomite is almost ubiquitous in gardens all over the globe. I discussed why Dolomite may actually help with Ca/Mg balance earlier, but also, in my opinion, having an unstable soil pH where you must pH balance your water every day is more miserable and time wasting. I can attest that I have never had tight soil or nute lockout, so while the writer could very well be right that there are better options for a pH buffer, I have not experimented yet.

8. Azomite and other rock dust. 
Writer claims these contain heavy metals which is true, but if you look closely, in a full scoop of the dust, heavy metals only make up something like a .00000005 % of the total ingredients which is infintesimal amounts. Heavy metals are in almost all soils without exception, and these are an accepted risk by most when you are smoking something you grow out of the dirt. It is what it is. Skip out on the trace minerals though and you may not notice, but your buds and mycos definitely will….

9. Humic Acid
This is to the poster who said that Humic acid DOESNT “help mycos a lil bit” thats funny and ironic because that is actually exactly what it does, but not in such simple terms. Humic acids are long organic chains that take nutrients (ions) from the soil and form unique complexes. They basically act as a storage locker for available nutrients in the soil so that mycos and plant roots can use them easily and directly.

Anyway, just want you guys to know that you can’t believe everything you read on a site like this. Subcool makes no money off his soil recipe, so if it doesn’t work, his credibility takes a hit, not his wallet. The purpose of this website is to knock Sub’s FREE recipe down a peg to open up the soil market. Regardless of the writer’s true motivation for the post, I think it is good to get people thinking about what they are doing, rather than blindly following, even if it does get you GREATTTT results! I just wish he would write from the perspective of trying to truly educate, not utilize logical fallacy to prove a point.


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## Nugachino (Dec 27, 2016)

Done my first round with a short cooked supersoil. The next round got the properly cooked stuff. I actually found a few random seedlings sprouting from it in the darkness of the shed.


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## maxamus1 (Dec 27, 2016)

I must ask why people hate on each other so much? If you really don't like something that someone is doing why not say your peace and move on? Sub has shown how he grows he's ganja after asked by god knows how many people asked him to share. If you don't like supersoil don't use it do your own thing but no need to cry about a man sharing what he was asked to share.


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## Rasta Roy (Dec 28, 2016)

subcoolgrower said:


> I buy Blue Chips Like Google, Apple, Amazon, Visa, Express Scripts and McDonalds.
> I differ my max IRA contribution each year its like 14K I also can differ like 12K for Jill.
> I then use this fund to buy stocks.
> It is willed to my kids.
> ...


I don't know much about Google and Apple's bottom line (I assume they are successful) but if you could get good money off your McDonald's and Amazon stocks I would sell those if they were mine. McDonald's hasn't been doing well and will most likely continue it's decline. And do you know Amazon has never actually made a profit? They assume they will when they have their delivery service in place, but who knows?


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## NaturalFarmer (Dec 28, 2016)

subcoolgrower said:


> 1.


Nice Post Sub! I hope you don't mind me chiming in, and please know that I am not a botanist or scientist but just a army veteran and father of three with a small farm and a love for soil and making it produce more yield in any crop I grow. I try to be open source and would love to help people grow better for less money. I started with subcool's recipe and spent a lot of time over the past few years learning from very knowledgeable people (ecompost, slownickel, Dr Cho) that know a lot about soil that goes beyond cannabis. I certainly respect you and Jill and I hope you understand that I'm not trying to do anything but give you a suggestion on making the recipe better. So here is my suggestion to you and anyone.


Peat- Carbon, high CEC, acidic. Canadian Sphagnum tastes like maple (I'm fucking with you, wear a mask or you'll be hacking shit like a coal miner).

Rice Hull- Silica aeration, Holds air for a grow or two.Top dresses nicely as well. Low dust, Can be grown on your farm. Non organic is cheap as shit.

Coco- Fast drying, aerating...neutral pH to counter the peat without much lime

Dolomite Lime- You need some for mag saturation increase the peats pH.

EWC-Store bought bags are almost guaranteed to have fungus gnat eggs but that's life I wouldn't grow without it.

(I have found a 5kg coco block mixed with 5 gal of each makes an incredible nice base.)

Gypsum- 20%-25% Fast acting Calcium and available 15-20% sulfur...which will release the Calcium and bind to ammonia and slow its volatilization. This needs to be in a decent mix for better uptake of other nutrients. If I could eat gypsum and rice hull I would(the rice hull gives me gas)....I love them both.

Bone Char- 19% available P.......screw guano's shipped from a foreign rock, Burned bones are the is the shit. Make it on your farm as well (800F and some roadkill needed).....I have nothing against bone meal/fish bone meal I guess depending on the source but why? when I can burn it and make it available?

Crab/lobsta Meal- increases Calcium saturation, Chitin (Increase bacteria and fungi). Known benefits in soil against pathogens. Too easy to make your own.

Soybean meal- (7-2-1) I have found that this is the perfect medium mixed food source for cannabis IMO. Most available is GMO as you may hear, but non gmo organic is readily available. seeds are also available to grow/make your own.

Diatomacious Earth- Food grade otherwise it will from one of the MANY mines that have diatoms and heavy metals. To add to this, the Diatoms are heated and turned into a crystalline form which is very dangerous for your lungs as opposed to the amorphous type which is unheated and in its natural state. There are only about 3 mines in the US that are deemed food grade. Fertrell brand is what most recommend for food grade.

Kelp Meal- Micronutrients without the mining. Fuck Azomite I hate that stuff. Aside from the heavy metals(which are a large concern in medicine in very small amounts ie CADMIUM). Why introduce more aluminum and sodium to your soil anyways (unless it is zeolites to increase nute hold in soil and CEC)? Traces can be found from Comfrey, yarrow, kelp..etc. Seriously if we are going to talk about investing for our children....How about we first make sure they don't have to wipe our asses because of heavy metals when we are later in life.

Epsom salt- slow/small/extended Foliar for better uptake. Need high Cal saturation to push it in flower

Humic/Fulvic- I will begin to make my own out of my compost someday but I use both every grow now (leonardite...not the greatest). Bio-ag once that runs dry. Humic helps under the roots, Fulvic as foliar.
People should be aware that they NEED to use non-chlorinated water because when mixed it creates a Carcinogenic THMs (Trihalomethane) and MX's (Unknown Mutagen). See Bioag's website for a better explanation.

Molasses- Love it, need it. Once a week at least to feed the microbe, never more than twice. Just a few teaspoons is enough. Maple dregs in my future.

Fish Hydrolysate or Fermented fish- Please stop using Fish Emulsion from home depot....That shit is Cl toxic from what I have read and the smell! Thrown up cat turd.

75-80% Cal sat 11-13 mag sat

Could this be improved? A little of course but that is what it is all about both in life. Personal and societal progression. Providing the cleanest medicine both environmentally and internally at the cheapest cost. Taunting your buddies to go cleaner instead of bigger on giant gaps (quit flailing son and float). I wish coco grew in Maine but yet to find an alternative. Trying straight shredded leaves now but that will take time to know for sure.

17 gallons Coco coir (1 5kg brick)
5 gallons Earth Worm Castings
5 gallons sphagnum peat moss
5 gallons rice hulls
3 cups gypsum
3 cups crab meal
1 ½ cups kelp meal
3 cups soybean meal
3 cups bone char
1 cup dolomitic lime ( a little more if no epsom foliar)
1 cup Diatomaceous Earth
a handful of native leaves wouldn't hurt.


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## STX.OrganicGuerilla (Jan 17, 2017)

Using subs with a base of FFOF and FFHF. 
Added a tbs of molasses to a gallon and gave her a drink than this.
  
Any info is greatly appreciated.
-Every grow is a successful one if you learn something.


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## STX.OrganicGuerilla (Jan 17, 2017)

https://www.rollitup.org/t/slight-twist-of-the-leaves-near-bud-sites.932336/


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## First Amendment Soil (Jan 27, 2017)

Keep in mind in stead of using purchased potting soil as the base you can use, peat (with more dolomite), a bale mix that is buffered, coco, used soil that has no bugs etc. AND increase the concentration of the amendments. Most bagged soils are about 1/4 as amended as your super soils. It is far harder to make a good super soil than a good potting soil. You are doing the hard work. All you have to do is increase your amendments by about 25% and you are GTG with no expensive base potting soil. Perhaps add some extra Calcium Carbonate or fine Oyster Shell to be safe with Calcium. Based on 6 Years super soil experience, 100s of trucks mixed and grown.


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## Rasta Roy (Jan 27, 2017)

First Amendment Soil said:


> Keep in mind in stead of using purchased potting soil as the base you can use, peat (with more dolomite), a bale mix that is buffered, coco, used soil that has no bugs etc. AND increase the concentration of the amendments. Most bagged soils are about 1/4 as amended as your super soils. It is far harder to make a good super soil than a good potting soil. You are doing the hard work. All you have to do is increase your amendments by about 25% and you are GTG with no expensive base potting soil. Perhaps add some extra Calcium Carbonate or fine Oyster Shell to be safe with Calcium. Based on 6 Years super soil experience, 100s of trucks mixed and grown.


Sub has better stuff to do than worry about soil recipes and his crew ain't trying to hear nothing! Lol.

Good advice tho!


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## First Amendment Soil (Jan 27, 2017)

NaturalFarmer said:


> Has anybody done a real soil test with the mix?


We have tested the original and a number of variations. They come pretty close to the NPKCaMgMicros you would calculate using basic nutrient math (%s, volumes, etc.). This is because the nutrients are mostly available after composting.

Bear in mind that the different amendments do continue to break down and you can modify the mix to control break down rate (like particle size and multiple sources of each amendment) so you can have a peak of N early, a peak of P midbloom and a peak of K just after then fade out at just the right time. 

Sub was spot on with his recipe, trail and error has served many folks well, but statistics and trials support the blend and variations that consider practical amendment variables can help improve strain specific results.


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## First Amendment Soil (Jan 27, 2017)

Rasta Roy said:


> Sub has better stuff to do than worry about soil recipes and his crew ain't trying to hear nothing! Lol.
> 
> Good advice tho!


Thanks. Sub can do his thing. We appreciate what he has done for us and he has opened so many eyes to put down the bottle. 

Here is another tidbit we learned over the years. Use it or not, but this is the first time we are sharing this in the open. You can compost this mix at 2x the concentration. Why would you? Well it takes up space (esp when you make mountains of it like us). When we made the first batches in the stores after customers asked us to in 2011 (we were not even using it), we were low on space. We did a trial and doubled the amendments, turned about every 5 days and got great completed compost in about 30 days, been doing the same for 6 years. THEN take the finished "Concentrate" and add back in the same amount of base soil or media. Viola, super soil in half the compost space. There is a limit to how concentrated you can get, we stick to 2x Super Soil aka Concentrate. It makes a GREAT well rounded topdressing too. 

We put the amendments (a much revised recipe but similar NPK) on a compost base of 60% peat, with 30% peat with rice hulls and vermicompost making the last 10%. Then we finish once composted by blending with coco coir, coco chips, rice hulls, peat, perlite, growstones and add back in some Epsom and Calcium Carbonate. Don't forget 2-3 lbs of dolomite (hopefully #65) per bale of peat. 

Peace.


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## MynamewouldbeJosh420 (Jan 27, 2017)

HapaHaole said:


> EXCELLENT Tutorial thank you!
> 
> I'm gathering all the stuff now so great!
> On a side note tho... awwww, I could not see subs "secret-ingredient"?


https://m.youtube.com/user/subcool420


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## NaturalFarmer (Feb 11, 2017)

First Amendment Soil said:


> We have tested the original and a number of variations. They come pretty close to the NPKCaMgMicros you would calculate using basic nutrient math (%s, volumes, etc.). This is because the nutrients are mostly available after composting.
> 
> Bear in mind that the different amendments do continue to break down and you can modify the mix to control break down rate (like particle size and multiple sources of each amendment) so you can have a peak of N early, a peak of P midbloom and a peak of K just after then fade out at just the right time.
> 
> Sub was spot on with his recipe, trail and error has served many folks well, but statistics and trials support the blend and variations that consider practical amendment variables can help improve strain specific results.


Amendments may take time to break down and become available but test will show whether they are present regardless. I am much more interested in the base saturation then anything else. NPK? not really ... If you have done a test on the soil please share.


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## TitanCannabisArchives (Mar 25, 2017)

Growop101 said:


> he put such a little amound of the secret ingredient, its prob nothing lol


Its granular humic acid


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## Fender Super (Apr 16, 2017)

Molasses just isn't a usable nute in my situation. We have ant colonies we have to get really serious about, and ants carry aphids. Therefore, NO SUGAR will be added to my soil. Sorry.


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## malignant (Jun 7, 2017)

subcoolgrower said:


> I was serious about investment advise but what ever
> 
> OK Jokes on Me what The hell and I doing arguing with Trolls?
> I know better.
> ...


Damn Sub, this same ole shit, a decade later? Lmao.. guys super soil recipe is like a sauce recipe, you have room to tweek it to fit your needs, hell, Subs been tweeking it since the initial concept. People were balking at it then, and folks still are doing it now. Dont forget, what one strain loves and thrives in, another may not... play nice kids, we're in it together. Safe the hatred for 4chan and FB.


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## giglewigle (Jul 10, 2017)

pisses me of that is gets 2 sub makes me sad that the trolls got 2 him i hope he comes back iv learned on this site u gott laugh it off hash church and weed nerds has tought me a fuck load


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## Squonk (Sep 5, 2017)

Hello all. I'm trying to troubleshoot a matter that I've been encountering with my crops during the latter stage of flowering. I'm relatively new at this and only grow once a year on a very small scale just for personal use. So please pardon my ignorance, as I'm still very much in a learning curve. 

I've used Sub's recipe the last two years in a row and the plants absolutely THRIVE in it, except toward the latter half of the flowering stage. They first start fading about three weeks into the flowering stage. Very slight at first, but profound toward the end. At the same time the leaf tips start showing signs of nute burn, which gradually works its way up the leaf. Secondly the trichomes don't seem to reach their optimum potency in terms of cloudy vs clear. Some do turn cloudy, but a high percentage remain clear with little noticeable improvement over the last few weeks and days of flowering until I'm forced to harvest due to the plant fading out too much. 

I realize that fading is normal during late flowering. But the symptoms of nute burn during late flowering have me puzzled. Also, just based on the ratio of cloudy/clear trichs at harvest I suspect I'm not getting full potency. I don't know whether anything can be done to postpone the fading, or even if that would have any benefit in optimizing the trichomes. Also, to me it seems counter intuitive to add more nutes or top dressing to reduce the fading, when at the same time there are symptoms of nute burn. 

I'm using a 2x4 grow tent, two Platinum 300W LEDs, RO water only, Boogie Brew compost tea every two or three waterings. The grow tent and room are well ventilated and climate controlled. I only grow two plants at a time, each in a 10 gallon fabric pot. So overcrowding isn't an issue. The strains have been Barney's Farm Pineapple Chunk and Liberty Haze. Maybe it's the strains, not the soil...I dunno. 

Any helpful advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


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## Rasta Roy (Sep 5, 2017)

Squonk said:


> Hello all. I'm trying to troubleshoot a matter that I've been encountering with my crops during the latter stage of flowering. I'm relatively new at this and only grow once a year on a very small scale just for personal use. So please pardon my ignorance, as I'm still very much in a learning curve.
> 
> I've used Sub's recipe the last two years in a row and the plants absolutely THRIVE in it, except toward the latter half of the flowering stage. They first start fading about three weeks into the flowering stage. Very slight at first, but profound toward the end. At the same time the leaf tips start showing signs of nute burn, which gradually works its way up the leaf. Secondly the trichomes don't seem to reach their optimum potency in terms of cloudy vs clear. Some do turn cloudy, but a high percentage remain clear with little noticeable improvement over the last few weeks and days of flowering until I'm forced to harvest due to the plant fading out too much.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately subs super soil wasn't developed by someone with actual horticulture experience, so it leaves a lot to be desired. I'm a little busy with work right now but I'll hop on later and give you some advice and then a better recipe that you can use going forward with future grows.


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## aus.jak (Sep 17, 2017)

hello people just want some opinions on lupin mulch wether its good or not around my plants it sez on the bag ensures beneficial bacteria an enhance soil diversity by adding vital soil microbes an minerals essential to plant growth


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## PentaBiker (Sep 17, 2017)

Rasta Roy said:


> Unfortunately subs super soil wasn't developed by someone with actual horticulture experience, so it leaves a lot to be desired. I'm a little busy with work right now but I'll hop on later and give you some advice and then a better recipe that you can use going forward with future grows.


Any update for us, please?


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## giglewigle (Sep 18, 2017)

fml i dont know what way is up iv seen people use the most simple soil recipe and grow amazing plants fuck i dont want to have 2 get a degree just to learn how to grow the best weed and vegies


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## Rasta Roy (Sep 18, 2017)

PentaBiker said:


> Any update for us, please?


Lol yep, my apologies. This is a busy time of year for me.

A solid organic potting mix for cannabis or most high demand crops (tomatoes, peppers) doesn't have to follow a strict recipe it just has to follow a few principles. Lots of drainage, moisture retention without heavy compaction, microbiology, a component with readily available nutrients, other components that break down slowly (producing fulvic and humic acids, creating fungal networks, and providing a slow stream of nutrients throughout the grow).

First make the base of your mix, this is pretty easy and there are a couple different avenues you could take.

The most affordable but most labor is going from scratch. Make your mix even parts peat moss or coco coir/perlite or rice hulls/compost. When i say compost, Im talking your home made compost, worm castings, composted cow manure, or composted horse manure. Whatever is most available and affordable in your area.

then just add 1/4 cup per cubic feet (about seven gallons) with some to buffer ph. Dolomite lime or oyster shell flour are popular choices!

This is great for starting seeds in or planting very small plants.

an alternative to this base mix would be just buying a bale of promix and or other plain potting mix (something without amendments, no fox farm or ocean forest) and then adding compost to this. not quite half compost for everybit of promix but close wouldnt hurt.

You could add any all purpose organic fertilizer to this mix and be good to go. Im a fan of the down to earth mixes. the jobe and espoma mixes lean a little hard on cheaper ingredients like chicken manure and sulfate of potash. but theyll work too.

If youre in the game for the long run, or a large scale grower though, the biggest deal will be getting the components separately. This is my personal recommendation;

1/2 cup per cubic foot of:

neem seed meal
fish bone meal or bone meal
gypsum
kelp meal
crab shell meal

1/4 cup per cubic foot of:
alfalfa meal
langbeinite

A mix like that won't overload your soil with N, so you can plant directly into it without burning your roots, and as long as youve got good quality compost then your plant wont need any early fertilization. be advised that growing in containers is not conducive to a water only grow though. after about six weeks i would recommend a top dressing of your all purpose mix or 1/2 cup of neem seed meal or alfalfa meal and kelp with a couple handfuls of compost per plant.

avoid highly water soluble components like bat guano in your mixes. guano and liquid fish fertilizer are good to have on hand. instead of top dressing like above you can make a tea with the guano to water your plants or use the liquid fish fert.

after growing reamend your mix with more compost, some more aeration, and the amendments above. cut your ratios in half unless youre growing in small ass five gallon pots or something.

and remember bigger roots, bigger fruits. use the biggest pots you can in flower and always repot into fresh soil before you get root bound before you reach the flowering stage.


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## Tyleb173rd (Sep 19, 2017)

Rasta Roy said:


> Lol yep, my apologies. This is a busy time of year for me.
> 
> A solid organic potting mix for cannabis or most high demand crops (tomatoes, peppers) doesn't have to follow a strict recipe it just has to follow a few principles. Lots of drainage, moisture retention without heavy compaction, microbiology, a component with readily available nutrients, other components that break down slowly (producing fulvic and humic acids, creating fungal networks, and providing a slow stream of nutrients throughout the grow).
> 
> ...


Best post of the day.....


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## Rasta Roy (Sep 19, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> Best post of the day.....


You flatter me friend!


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## tripleD (Oct 16, 2017)

Rasta Roy said:


> Lol yep, my apologies. This is a busy time of year for me.
> 
> A solid organic potting mix for cannabis or most high demand crops (tomatoes, peppers) doesn't have to follow a strict recipe it just has to follow a few principles. Lots of drainage, moisture retention without heavy compaction, microbiology, a component with readily available nutrients, other components that break down slowly (producing fulvic and humic acids, creating fungal networks, and providing a slow stream of nutrients throughout the grow).
> 
> ...


What size pots would you use for Auto's?? I've been using 5gal smart pots, but someone actually suggested that I use 15gal....that seems a bit much to me.


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## tripleD (Oct 16, 2017)

As someone who just read through ALL 24 PAGES of this thread and who does not know SUB or RASTA, and who has never used SUBS SOIL or RASTAS RECIPE, I came away with this-
While I appreciate the time and energy that both men have dedicated to helping others on this forum, I do NOT understand what ALL THE DAMN DRAMA IS ABOUT?????
1) SUB does NOT owe ANYBODY anything!! Use his soil, or don't use it! IT'S just that fkn SIMPLE....if you disagree w what he says then say so, explain why, and then LET THE READERS DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES, but leave the poor guy alone, unless you can prove that he has an agenda that's some how nefarious.
2) RASTA has issues with some of SUBS advice (especially the layering vs mixing advice) and while I appreciate RASTAS input, I think it's possible to state one's objection to someone else's advice without ATTACKING and constantly putting the other person down.
3) From what I've read, SUB clearly states that he doesn't know exactly why the supersoil works, so why do a few of you spend sooooo much fkn time berating SUB over it?? I have a recipe for neutralizing skunk odor, but I have NO IDEA WHY IT WORKS, and if I offered it on here for FREE and then had people bombarding me with questions about how it works, and criticizing me for it, I'd tell you to stop using it if you weren't happy with the results, and then if you kept pestering me about it I'd tell you to GOOOO PHUUUUK YOURSELF!!
4) I DEEPLY APPRECIATE ANYONE who is willing to take the time to try to help others, even if I disagree with them, and while I'm sure RASTA means well, and is just trying to educate us dummies, I definitely think this can be achieved without ALL THE NEGATIVITY toward a fellow member who from what I've read, was just trying to help.....

Peace & Love TOO ALL!!


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## Rasta Roy (Oct 16, 2017)

tripleD said:


> What size pots would you use for Auto's?? I've been using 5gal smart pots, but someone actually suggested that I use 15gal....that seems a bit much to me.


My personal grow is in 100 gallon beds, and the grows I've been paid to construct and consult on all grow in 60 to 150 gallon troughs...so my pot recommendations tend to be far from conservative lol.

I do not grow autos so unfortunately I'm not 100% sure on how to relate my experience to yours.

I can only say if it is your intention to shoot for a water only style grow, than five gallon pots will be to small. I would also recommend a 15 or 10 gallon pot.

But I don't know about autos since you've got a limited growth period. it might be better to have a smaller pot where the roots fill out quicker and then you just feed a liquid solution? I've been raising mothers and doing clones my whole grow career, I apologize my knowledge of autos is pretty stunted. I can only tell you why I do what I do, I hope it helps.

basically, say my basement height caps out at 10 feet, so im never gonna grow my plants higher than 6 feet.

I can grow the same two six foot plants in a 7 gallon pot, or a 15 gallon pot. Their root balls are where the difference is. The smaller pot will want to have the same size root ball as the bigger pot, since it has less pot to move around in, it will fill in every crevice of space in the soil and eat up all the available nutrients. You can top dress or liquid feed after this, it's a simple solution. But the plant in the bigger pot, the roots will have more soil to get into, so your nutrients in the soil tend to last longer. highly soluble anions like nitrogen still tend to need some reapplication, but a good base of compost, along with some neem cake seems to take the N a lot further.

But again, for autos you might be better off not following my approach. something with more water soluble nutes might be better suited to the limited growth time line.


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## Rasta Roy (Oct 16, 2017)

tripleD said:


> As someone who just read through ALL 24 PAGES of this thread and who does not know SUB or RASTA, and who has never used SUBS SOIL or RASTAS RECIPE, I came away with this-
> While I appreciate the time and energy that both men have dedicated to helping others on this forum, I do NOT understand what ALL THE DAMN DRAMA IS ABOUT?????
> 1) SUB does NOT owe ANYBODY anything!! Use his soil, or don't use it! IT'S just that fkn SIMPLE....if you disagree w what he says then say so, explain why, and then LET THE READERS DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES, but leave the poor guy alone, unless you can prove that he has an agenda that's some how nefarious.
> 2) RASTA has issues with some of SUBS advice (especially the layering vs mixing advice) and while I appreciate RASTAS input, I think it's possible to state one's objection to someone else's advice without ATTACKING and constantly putting the other person down.
> ...


In all fairness, at some point on those 24 pages I'm pretty sure I mentioned that I never knew my father, and am a real bastard. Lol.


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## tripleD (Oct 16, 2017)

Rasta Roy said:


> My personal grow is in 100 gallon beds, and the grows I've been paid to construct and consult on all grow in 60 to 150 gallon troughs...so my pot recommendations tend to be far from conservative lol.
> 
> I do not grow autos so unfortunately I'm not 100% sure on how to relate my experience to yours.
> 
> ...


Yea, I only grow 3-4 plants once a year for myself and I've been supplementing General Organics into my FFOF/FFHF mix after about 3-4weeks. I guess I'll try a 10gal next time. Thanks for the info!


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## tripleD (Oct 16, 2017)

Rasta Roy said:


> In all fairness, at some point on those 24 pages I'm pretty sure I mentioned that I never knew my father, and am a real bastard. Lol.


Lol, yea, it might have come up once or twice my brutha....mine is in prison so you might consider yourself lucky!


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## elfo777 (Oct 21, 2017)

Rasta Roy said:


> In all fairness, at some point on those 24 pages I'm pretty sure I mentioned that I never knew my father, and am a real bastard. Lol.


the king in the north


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## Rasta Roy (Oct 22, 2017)

elfo777 said:


> the king in the north


DAKINGINDANORPH!


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## hillbill (Nov 4, 2017)

Da king upnordt!


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## tripleD (Nov 4, 2017)

DA KING IN DA NORDT SAZ DATS SOFA KING WE TODD IT!!!


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## mastermind303033 (Apr 30, 2018)

OOOkaaayyy so... I've read about three or four pages in and four pages back and then ended up in my local shop hunting for the basics of SS and ended up getting all sorts of shit that now im uncertain on how much of what to add or if I need more or less ingredients. I'm new to organics so I am going to list what I have and hopefully one or all of you can chime in at any time with your input and then I will suck your egos dick. 

List of shit I gots:
- Epsoma Bat Guano 1.25LBs
- Epsoma Blood Meal 3LBs
- Epsoma Bone Meal 4LBs
- Epsoma Potash 6LBs
- Epsoma Alfalfa Meal 3LBs
- Epsoma Kelp Meal 4LBs
- Epsom Salt Plus 5Lbs
- Hydrated Lime 2LBs
- 6QTs Worm Castings
- 3CuFt Roots Organic Soil

NOOOOW...I am well aware that I shouldnt just dump all this together and let 'er cook. I know SOME of these ingredients I many need more of and Some I need very little of and that I may be missing some ingredients. I am hoping that someone or ones can please tell me based on what I have listed in what proportions I should mix and what I may be missing or what may not be useful at all. I humbly thank any and all of you in advance.


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## Rasta Roy (May 1, 2018)

mastermind303033 said:


> OOOkaaayyy so... I've read about three or four pages in and four pages back and then ended up in my local shop hunting for the basics of SS and ended up getting all sorts of shit that now im uncertain on how much of what to add or if I need more or less ingredients. I'm new to organics so I am going to list what I have and hopefully one or all of you can chime in at any time with your input and then I will suck your egos dick.
> 
> List of shit I gots:
> - Epsoma Bat Guano 1.25LBs
> ...


Definitely take back the hydrated lime right away as it will be of literally no use to you. You bought a soil that is already full of amendments and ready to use so don't mix your amendments with them at all. Dont do this at first cause your soil is good to go but Every four weeks top dress your plants with 

1/4 cup of alfalfa meal, blood meal, potash, kelp meal per plant. Maybe 1/8 cup of the Epsom salts every other time you top dress unless you have a mag deficiency then up the frequency of application

Return every thing else to the store and spend the money on a good barrel aged sour beer or German lambic.


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## mastermind303033 (May 1, 2018)

Rasta Roy said:


> Definitely take back the hydrated lime right away as it will be of literally no use to you. You bought a soil that is already full of amendments and ready to use so don't mix your amendments with them at all. Dont do this at first cause your soil is good to go but Every four weeks top dress your plants with
> 
> 1/4 cup of alfalfa meal, blood meal, potash, kelp meal per plant. Maybe 1/8 cup of the Epsom salts every other time you top dress unless you have a mag deficiency then up the frequency of application
> 
> Return every thing else to the store and spend the money on a good barrel aged sour beer or German lambic.


 thanks for the input. Secondary question. Currently Using FFOF and basic FF nutes. Would it be possible or ideal to reammend it with the leftover stuff I bought and let it all cook while the next grow is going. So basically adding the Worm Castings and Bone Meal and Bat Guano and Lime and letting it all fester for about 3-4 months then reuse it? Also is the lime just not needed because roots organic is good for the PH or did i just not get the right type?


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## mastermind303033 (May 1, 2018)

Also Im trying to get a sort of rotation going where I re-ammend the soil so I'm thinking something like using this FFOF mix and then the Roots Organic and everytime a grow ends Ill have the next batch ready to go. The goal is also the not be feeding much other than regular water with maybe some molasses and a tea every month. What say you great minds of organics?


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## Strudelheim (May 19, 2018)

Rasta Roy said:


> My personal grow is in 100 gallon beds, and the grows I've been paid to construct and consult on all grow in 60 to 150 gallon troughs...so my pot recommendations tend to be far from conservative lol.
> 
> I do not grow autos so unfortunately I'm not 100% sure on how to relate my experience to yours.
> 
> ...


So if 5 Gallon Pots will not work for water only, then Im assuming 3G arent going to be any better. Im switching from ProMix/ PBP to organic living soil, I have 100 3G pots and am not switching to another size. I do 16 plants per 1K = 1 plant per sq foot, I shoot for 4-8 small main tops, flip at 10-16" end up with 2-3 foot plants, and 1-1.5 zips per plant yield. I always transplant into the 3G pot 2 weeks before flip. I veg at 18/6 for 4-6 weeks totaal under the main lights. 


Here is my mix. Let me know your thoughts. Im halfway through flowering.

[] 1 Cup Bonemeal
[]1/2 Cup Dehydrated Molasses
[]1/2 Cup Kelp
[]1/2 Cup Alfalfa
[]1/2 Cup Blood meal
[]1/2 Cup Glacial Rock Dust
[]1/3 Cup Oyster Shell
[]1/3 Cup Dolomite Lime
[]1/3 Cup Gypsum
[]1/4 Cup Azomite
[]1/4 Cup Basalt

40% PEAT
40% PERLITE
20% EWC


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## Rasta Roy (May 20, 2018)

Strudelheim said:


> So if 5 Gallon Pots will not work for water only, then Im assuming 3G arent going to be any better. Im switching from ProMix/ PBP to organic living soil, I have 100 3G pots and am not switching to another size. I do 16 plants per 1K = 1 plant per sq foot, I shoot for 4-8 small main tops, flip at 10-16" end up with 2-3 foot plants, and 1-1.5 zips per plant yield. I always transplant into the 3G pot 2 weeks before flip. I veg at 18/6 for 4-6 weeks totaal under the main lights.
> 
> 
> Here is my mix. Let me know your thoughts. Im halfway through flowering.
> ...


The dehydrated molasses I would leave out because it's just gonna end up on your floor and odds the benefits of are gone when it goes to the powder, just leaving you with the sugar which sure if you're outside has it's place but with your op and small pots; attempting to up your microbe count isn't going to do much on the positive side but make you feel better. 

I would've dropped the blood meal since you've got the alfalfa meal. The glacial rock dust, and basalt and azomite are pulling triple duty and are pretty useless in horticulture (small pots), and all the information about minerals needing to be added to your soil is citing data from a 1930's magazine and now rock quarries are capitalizing anyway. Skip that shit. You're using kelp cause it's full minerals you don't need to buy a bunch of useless smashed rocks.

You don't need oyster shell flour and lime, though I do like piggy backing the gypsum.

What you're missing that would really get your soil flying is langbeinite. Also known as kmag or sulpomag. You only need about 1/4 cup per cubic foot but that's the one that will get your potassium levels to where they need to be.

The mix you have right now is gonna be loaded up on Nitrogen and Calcium, your phosphorus levels should be ok...but adding a slower release phosphate source like crab shell meal in addition would help, that or just retop dress more bone meal every 4 weeks or so with your pot size.

And you're definitely going to be hurting for magnesium and potassium.

Your plants will get good bud in your mix for sure...but getting your K and mag up will increase your trichomes and resin.


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## molten (May 20, 2018)

An Afgooey cross grown in my own personal spin on Super Soil. Way more sativa in this variety than the name suggests.


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## Rasta Roy (May 20, 2018)

molten said:


> An Afgooey cross grown in my own personal spin on Super Soil. Way more sativa in this variety than the name suggests.


Way too much N in your mix from the look of her.


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## Strudelheim (May 20, 2018)

Rasta Roy said:


> Way too much N in your mix from the look of her.


How can you tell? I thought too much N will make your leaves very dark green and shiny. Neither of which is happening here.


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## Strudelheim (May 20, 2018)

Rasta Roy said:


> The dehydrated molasses I would leave out because it's just gonna end up on your floor and odds the benefits of are gone when it goes to the powder, just leaving you with the sugar which sure if you're outside has it's place but with your op and small pots; attempting to up your microbe count isn't going to do much on the positive side but make you feel better.
> 
> I would've dropped the blood meal since you've got the alfalfa meal. The glacial rock dust, and basalt and azomite are pulling triple duty and are pretty useless in horticulture (small pots), and all the information about minerals needing to be added to your soil is citing data from a 1930's magazine and now rock quarries are capitalizing anyway. Skip that shit. You're using kelp cause it's full minerals you don't need to buy a bunch of useless smashed rocks.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks for the detailed analysis. Wasn't expecting that, much appreciated.

I was shooting for diversity so thats why I have several sources of rock dusts (not using large amounts of each) same with the calcium, low amounts of each = 1 cup total, which was the standard calcium input I saw on recipes. The oyster shell is flakes so super slow release for that.

I used the dolomite for magnesium as sulpomag is on back order at the store for me. Should be plenty of mag in my worm castings too?

I thought Bone meal was pretty slow release? I think even the alfalfa and kelp meal have P in them, enough to contribute some to the total. And I did use 1 cup of bonemeal, more than anything else so I would think Im good on the P. Worm castings are high in P as well and I use 20% in my mix. - Homeade, so high quality and nutrient dense, Im in the prairies far from the coast, so crab shell is impossible to get here. I really tried to get everything possible, and the things in this mix is what I could get in bulk locally. There is one thing I want to get shipped, which is neem cake, will be $100 for 20 pounds of it.

I would use more alfalfa and skip the blood meal, but people always warned of how you should use just a little of alfalfa and be careful as it burns easily. Even though the NPK of it seems pretty balanced and low versus blood meal which is 12-0-0 ! So i settled on using 50/50 of each.

I guess I will see how it goes and just feed extra and go from there. My main concern is identifying which nutrient I am lacking in when the deficiency shows up, and adjusting my mix for the next run. Ive got some that are 4 Weeks in, and yellowing a bit, I will take some pictures and post up if thats ok? Then again my run off is coming out at 6.2, So its not in the ideal 6.5-6.8 range. I was thinking that might have something to do with it and was going to try to fix that first for the next run. Its low because I used peat moss, but also used sulfur on my worm castings because PH was in the 8 range. It came out a little too low, so will re use some soil that is at 6.5 already, and not add anymore sulfur for now.


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## molten (May 20, 2018)

Rasta Roy said:


> Way too much N in your mix from the look of her.


Good eye, probably the leaves toward the bottom of the plant, she got toasted by horse manure about a month ago. I repotted her, including my custom mix at the bottom, and she's growing well.


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## molten (May 20, 2018)

mastermind303033 said:


> Also Im trying to get a sort of rotation going where I re-ammend the soil so I'm thinking something like using this FFOF mix and then the Roots Organic and everytime a grow ends Ill have the next batch ready to go. The goal is also the not be feeding much other than regular water with maybe some molasses and a tea every month. What say you great minds of organics?


That seems to be the trend. Don't forget to amend with old fashioned carbon. Wood chips and sawdust.


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## Diesel0889 (Dec 28, 2019)

Anyone not wanting to spend stupid money on pro-tekt should pick up a lb or 2 of agsil 16 from build a soil and mix it yourself. Soooooooo much cheaper and exactly the same thing. Use as powder or make a concentrate in water (pro-tekt). Jmo but I'd like to see less bottles that cost us as it is so easy to make. Weigh out agsil16 blend to x amount of water, that's it... happy growing!

Edit: wrong place for this oops. But I'll leave it as it's still useful here...


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## DankDave420 (Feb 5, 2020)

Hi guys. I am just now making the switch to organic. I had a few questions. First of all I can't work the link so here is the recipe I am looking at: 
*Subcool’s Super Soil Recipe Improved, Large Batch :*

8 ten gallon bags of _high quality_ Organic Potting Soil Such as “Roots Organic Soil”
25 – 50 pounds of Organic Earthworm Castings
5 pounds of Blood Meal (12-0-0)
5 pounds of Bloom Bat Guano ( 0-5-0)
5 pounds Fish Bone Meal ( 3-16-0)
3 pounds Rock Phosphate (0-3-0)
3/4 cup Epsom Salt
1 cup Dolomite Lime
1/2 cup Azomite
2 table spoons (Tbs.) powdered Humic Acid

*Subcool’s Super Soil Recipe Improved, Small Batch :*

1 ten gallon bag of _high quality_ Organic Potting Soil Such as “Roots Organic Soil”
3 to 6 pounds of Organic Earthworm Castings (1 lb. of casting = about 1 gal.)
10 ounces of Blood Meal ( 10 oz. of blood meal = about 1 & 1/2 cups)
10 ounces of Bloom Bat Guano ( 10 oz. of guano = about 1 cup)
10 ounces Fish Bone Meal ( 10 oz. of bone meal = about 1 cup)
6 ounces Rock Phosphate
1&1/2 tablespoons Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate)
2 tablespoons or 1 oz. (liquid measure)of Dolomite Lime
1 tablespoons or 1/2 oz. (liquid measure) of Azomite (trace elements)
1 teaspoon of powdered Humic Acid


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## DankDave420 (Feb 5, 2020)

My main question or observation is isn't this recipe low on K? I really don't know, Any thoughts?
Edit:Update: I'm so confused! 
I was about to order all this stuff now I'm second guessing the recipe. 
RIP Subcool.


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## Rasta Roy (Feb 5, 2020)

DankDave420 said:


> My main question or observation is isn't this recipe low on K? I really don't know, Any thoughts?
> Edit:Update: I'm so confused!
> I was about to order all this stuff now I'm second guessing the recipe.
> RIP Subcool.


It is low on K and way too high on N, P, and soluble fertilizers that will wash out of your soil instead of breaking down and providing you with the nutrients you need.

Here is a better recipe.

40 percent peat moss, coco coir, or pine tree bark
45 percent perlite, pumice, or rice hulls 
15 percent worm castings or whatever best quality compost you have available (cow manure compost, lawn disposal based compost)

That makes your base potting soil.

Then you can literally buy any all purpose organic fertilizer bag from home depot or wherever and just use 1tbsp per gallon of soil for bigger plants, or 1 tsp for smaller plants. One that's labeled for tomatoes or vegetables will work best.

I'm at work but I'll shoot off another message in a minute here with a breakdown if you want to do all the ingredients separately yourself.


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## DankDave420 (Feb 5, 2020)

Do you have to let it cook as well? Is this soil recommended to be reusable if amended? I've been down a rabbit hole researching reusable living soils for days. I'm about to give up on it and just use new soil each grow I think.


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## hillbill (Feb 5, 2020)

Mix up a batch and spend the next 3 months educating yourself here and picking up amendments and stuff you’re gonna need to begin reusing your mix.


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## DankDave420 (Feb 5, 2020)

Was Subcool's soil meant to be reused? I can't keep straight who is organic, living soil, reusing soil, so many extremely different recipes. I went down too many rabbit holes.


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## Diesel0889 (Feb 5, 2020)

Dont think super soil wont work for you. It will. Most plants in my experiance liked it. Having said that I run a (coot) style mix and modded it very slightly.

Aloe powder
Agsil16
Malted barley
BAS big 6
Neptune harvest fish
Therm x 70 (yucca)
Coconut powder
Bio ag ful power
Grokashi
Em1, photosynthesis plus or fish shit (all work well)

These are most of what I supplement my coots mix with during the grow. After the grow I take .8-1cf malibu/home made castings and mix up 50 percent of the original inputs (including minrals) mix it all up good let it sit week or 2. Plop new plants into my 4x4 bed 4-6, and top dress the 1cf on top, bas 12 seed covercrop/grokashi/malted barley and my work is done other than water about once per week 5-8 gallons depending on where I'm at. Other than that very little other than normal plant maintaining etc. I prob could skip amendments per 2 cycles but prob wont chance it.

In a no till environment I'd recommend somthing more along the lines of coot mix or a similar one that is listed above. There is a few ways of going about "organic". What direction you want to go? If you amended correct most plants in coots mix will finish water only.

@hillbill is correct though. Education on how soil biology works will help you more. I'd pull the trigger on a proven mix (build it yourself) and hit the books. And of course if we or I can help you I'm sure we can. This dont mean a 60/40 peat/casting mix or a light mix cant get you going in the "cooking" process. Better to let them cook. Super soil will burn if not used correct period. Coots I have planted direct but would recommend giving it 3 or 4 weeks. If you are running seed this is no problem. Even cuts. Short cuts will NOT be your friend! Super soil MUST COOK imo and I'm sure anyone else will agree. Way to hot and mine hit like boiling hot during cooking.

Most importantly where are you headed in your organic journey? This will get you started faster... if I can help I will!

Happy growing!

Edit: yes SS you can reuse, if going no till go with a different mix. Dont let me deter you from SS. Dif strokes for dif folks...


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## DankDave420 (Feb 5, 2020)

Good info! 
I just want organic, high quality. Saving money is desirable because everything is so expensive to get here. But, quality is most important. 
I guess really I am trying to figure out what I want to do. 
I was about to order Subcool's ingredients above but realized I didn't like it. Mainly just the high N low K looks off to me. 
Now I'm asking a bunch of noob questions because I'm burnt out. 
I realize I have more research to do. 
I'm going to quit clogging up the threads for the day! Thanks for the info!!!!


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## hillbill (Feb 5, 2020)

Look at the many examples of growing mixes here, so much good info here. Well worth the effort.


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## Diesel0889 (Feb 5, 2020)

Also I noticed that most strains seem to like coots mix. I def found some that needed less than prescribed on the SS.(more tweaks strain to strain) Subs the inspiration for me going organic years ago, I have just been drawn to no till. And imo coots is cheaper, especially over time. I have been impressed by both but coots mix or similar just have worked for me better. SS has its place no doubt and works great but imo from a ROLS standpoint I think you may consider coots or similar.

Build a soil is my go to for the goods needed to make it. Can give you help if ya want. And a few pics so you know im.not full of it lol. Or find me in the bodhi thread. I'm there more than anywhere! 


You are a legend sub and will be missed! Fly high and rest easy brother! May you live on through the fire you created. I hope your cherrygasum is good lol, 2 hit the dirt in honor of you. Cheesequake next. Thank you for your inspiration and help over the years. See you on the other side!


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## hillbill (Feb 6, 2020)

Always check local nurseries and feed stores. Bet you could find all that’s essential.


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## Diesel0889 (Feb 6, 2020)

If shopping local down to earth is a widely sold brand almost everywhere now or can be ordered. They also make quality ingredients. 

Bas neem/karanja, kelp is of the best quality I have found anywhere. DTE is legit and you can prob find it local as @hillbill said. Online I'd go BAS or kis organics.


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## Trainwreckertonville (Feb 25, 2020)

Squonk said:


> Hello all. I'm trying to troubleshoot a matter that I've been encountering with my crops during the latter stage of flowering. I'm relatively new at this and only grow once a year on a very small scale just for personal use. So please pardon my ignorance, as I'm still very much in a learning curve.
> 
> I've used Sub's recipe the last two years in a row and the plants absolutely THRIVE in it, *except toward the latter half of the flowering stage. They first start fading about three weeks into the flowering stage. Very slight at first, but profound toward the end. At the same time the leaf tips start showing signs of nute burn, which gradually works its way up the leaf. *Secondly the trichomes don't seem to reach their optimum potency in terms of cloudy vs clear. Some do turn cloudy, but a high percentage remain clear with little noticeable improvement over the last few weeks and days of flowering until I'm forced to harvest due to the plant fading out too much.
> 
> I realize that fading is normal during late flowering. But the *symptoms of nute burn during late flowering have me puzzled.* Also, just based on the ratio of cloudy/clear trichs at harvest I suspect I'm not getting full potency. I don't know whether anything can be done to postpone the fading, or even if that would have any benefit in optimizing the trichomes. Also, to me it seems counter intuitive to add more nutes or top dressing to reduce the fading, when at the same time there are symptoms of nute burn.


Holy cow, I ran sub’s mix to the T last season and I had the EXACT same results as above. Midway through flower and I never really fully corrected it.

One observation:
I had multiple 20 gallon pots with this mix. The showed the deficiency and leaf tip yellowing all at the same time. I also had a 45 gallon pot that went another two weeks before it showed the same signs. Is it possible it’s from rootbound stress and not even an actual deficiency? The 20 gallon pots were bottom to top roots and the 45 about the same.

Second observation: Nothing I could do would fix the symptoms. Tried more water, less water, light nitrogen, some KNF. It persisted until harvest but it was still fire.

Another thought was maybe it was a phosphorous toxicity in flower, all the plants showed it at the same time (in the same size pots). I used 0-10-0 bat guano instead of the 0-5-0 by mistake so thats what had me thinking this.

I was stunned when I read the origional post, wasnt just me seeing this.


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## DankDave420 (Feb 27, 2020)

Trainwreckertonville said:


> Holy cow, I ran sub’s mix to the T last season and I had the EXACT same results as above. Midway through flower and I never really fully corrected it.
> 
> One observation:
> I had multiple 20 gallon pots with this mix. The showed the deficiency and leaf tip yellowing all at the same time. I also had a 45 gallon pot that went another two weeks before it showed the same signs. Is it possible it’s from rootbound stress and not even an actual deficiency? The 20 gallon pots were bottom to top roots and the 45 about the same.
> ...


Was that post answered? 
Sounds like K deficiency to me. K is the most important macro in flower.
Is your recipe similar to the one I posted earlier?
That is why I didn't use it, no K.
P toxicity would look similar but different context clues, pictures would be useful. 
It could be both with this recipe, you would have to use high K with no P to remedy.


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## Trainwreckertonville (Feb 27, 2020)

DankDave420 said:


> Was that post answered?
> Sounds like K deficiency to me. K is the most important macro in flower.
> Is your recipe similar to the one I posted earlier?
> That is why I didn't use it, no K.
> ...


I appreciate the reply. This is the mix I used. What would I add for the K? I just sent it out to logan labs for soil testing so I guess it will show there. 

8 large bags of a high-quality organic potting soil with coco fiber and mycorrhizae (i.e., your base soil)
25 to 50 lbs of organic worm castings
5 lbs steamed bone meal
5 lbs Bloom bat guano
5 lbs blood meal
3 lbs rock phosphate
¾ cup Epson salts
½ cup sweet lime (dolomite)
½ cup azomite (trace elements)
2 tbsp powdered humic acid


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## DankDave420 (Feb 27, 2020)

Trainwreckertonville said:


> I appreciate the reply. This is the mix I used. What would I add for the K? I just sent it out to logan labs for soil testing so I guess it will show there.
> 
> 8 large bags of a high-quality organic potting soil with coco fiber and mycorrhizae (i.e., your base soil)
> 25 to 50 lbs of organic worm castings
> ...


Oh nice. I have Langbeinite for K.


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## Bignutes (Mar 4, 2020)

I am using subs recipe and my girls are fading fast by 5th week of flower, nothing is helping. Up until third week of flower they were extremely healthy looking. Instead of using in the bottom third of pot I am using 1/4 strength of what his soil recipe is but its in the whole volume of pot. I included some alfalfa meal and kelp meal to boost k in the bottom and my rock phosphate has 20% calcium, no azomite either. On reevaluating I am thinking it is too small of a pot, I have a smaller plant in a container that's the same size as the larger plants. The large plants are suffering but the small plant is looking extremely healthy at the same point in flowering. This leads me to believe I need to increase my pot size to plant size. Currently a 26 liter pot with a 2x2 scrog plant is showing nutrient deficiencies at three weeks flower, moderately at five weeks and it's fading fast. I think this would be fixed by increasing the pot size to about 35-40 liters. It's true I think of what subcool says that 10 gallon is his recommendation, anything smaller like a 7 gal I would knock off about 12 days of veg to keep the plant smaller and have a better nutrient reserve left over to power thru flower. I think his soil recipe still rocks just need to pay attention to his sage advice on pot size and quit trying to stretch a dollar, its leading to shitty yields.


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## Trainwreckertonville (Mar 4, 2020)

Fading mid/late flower seems to be a recurring topic, I too had the same problem. I got a soil test done recently on sub’s mix after one season and the potassium was extremely low.


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## Gullett79 (Mar 4, 2020)

I started using this mix last year after a nice long cook and I'm not real sure about continuing with it. May go back to hydro/aero. I know growth is slower with soil mix, but my girls would barely make it to a third of the hydros in side by side grows, if that. I followed the mix to a tee, scaled down for a mix of about 3 cubic feet. And just to be safe, I left it to cook in the 90+ heat for about 4-5 months inside a black storage tote with just enough airflow to keep from going anaerobic. Any ideas or thoughts, because I would love to stay with this and save a boatload of money on the hydro side, but the severely stunted growth has me thinking otherwise.


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## DankDave420 (Mar 5, 2020)

Gullett79 said:


> I started using this mix last year after a nice long cook and I'm not real sure about continuing with it. May go back to hydro/aero. I know growth is slower with soil mix, but my girls would barely make it to a third of the hydros in side by side grows, if that. I followed the mix to a tee, scaled down for a mix of about 3 cubic feet. And just to be safe, I left it to cook in the 90+ heat for about 4-5 months inside a black storage tote with just enough airflow to keep from going anaerobic. Any ideas or thoughts, because I would love to stay with this and save a boatload of money on the hydro side, but the severely stunted growth has me thinking otherwise.


Don't give up on organics just because you bought into the sub soil BS.
It is obvious at this point that his recipe is trash.
And he doesn't like to mention too often that he ALWAYS supplemented with additional nutes.
Sorry he wasted your time. You're not the only one.


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## smokeybeard (Mar 5, 2020)

Gullett79 said:


> I started using this mix last year after a nice long cook and I'm not real sure about continuing with it. May go back to hydro/aero. I know growth is slower with soil mix, but my girls would barely make it to a third of the hydros in side by side grows, if that. I followed the mix to a tee, scaled down for a mix of about 3 cubic feet. And just to be safe, I left it to cook in the 90+ heat for about 4-5 months inside a black storage tote with just enough airflow to keep from going anaerobic. Any ideas or thoughts, because I would love to stay with this and save a boatload of money on the hydro side, but the severely stunted growth has me thinking otherwise.


A lot of folks have hydro like growth with actual LOS. Maybe try that before you head back to hydro/aero.


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## Gullett79 (Mar 5, 2020)

DankDave420 said:


> Don't give up on organics just because you bought into the sub soil BS.
> It is obvious at this point that his recipe is trash.
> And he doesn't like to mention too often that he ALWAYS supplemented with additional nutes.
> Sorry he wasted your time. You're not the only one.


I've heard tons of people swear by it and have great results with just water, and I've seen others where I'm at. It's frustrating. I was considering making some adjustments to his recipe, but there's a million different posts out there giving their adjustments. The only problem is they're all different lol.


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## Gullett79 (Mar 5, 2020)

smokeybeard said:


> A lot of folks have hydro like growth with actual LOS. Maybe try that before you head back to hydro/aero.


I'm going to try to sort through all the different posts with recommended adjustments to the Sub recipe to see if I can find one that's used most often with that type of result. I'd really hate to have to ditch all of the soil I currently have and start all over.


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## smokeybeard (Mar 5, 2020)

Gullett79 said:


> I've heard tons of people swear by it and have great results with just water, and I've seen others where I'm at. It's frustrating. I was considering making some adjustments to his recipe, but there's a million different posts out there giving their adjustments. The only problem is they're all different lol.


Follow the Coots mix, I know lots of folks use it in general and as a stellar base with plenty of room to customize your own build.


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## Bignutes (Mar 5, 2020)

Subcools has too little potassium, when they change gears into 3-4 week and the flowers bulk up they need K which there is very little of. This explains why he says his yields don't rival his lady grower friend. I am working to reverse engineer subcool's recipe to find out the strength of NPK, Ca, Mg per litre of soil. Very little K, Ca or Mg.

When I started comparing Coots mix with Subcool's they are vastly different. Coots is absolutely loaded with Ca, about 4 times that of Subcool's and about 1.5X the Mg. Coots has very little P but relies on top dressing malt barley and alfalfa tea which doesn't have a lot of P either. Then you factor in the availability of nutrients and this all goes out the door, time delay is also vastly different. Its apples and oranges.......


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## Bignutes (Mar 6, 2020)

Gullett79 said:


> I'm going to try to sort through all the different posts with recommended adjustments to the Sub recipe to see if I can find one that's used most often with that type of result. I'd really hate to have to ditch all of the soil I currently have and start all over.


I am in the same boat, don't ditch it, add k either with langenbeinite, alfalfa or kelp meal. Also fortify with some crusteacean meal and eggshells ground up or oyster shellshell. The ratio subs recipe is at is a 1 to 1 ratio of ca to mg so I would take his ca and add about 2.25x, Epsom another 1.25x. Get the ratio of k:ca:mg to 4:2:1 or even 3:2:1. Currently subs recipe is 0:1:1 so anything to bump k levels remotely close to 4:2:1 should be a significant upgrade. I'd knock back the P levels (ie don't amend with as much after next cycle) or if soil is a fresh batch dilute it by 25% to get P levels down and then if you run into problems on next grow insert alfalfa meal to quickly correct the recipe. That is essentially what Coots recipe is doing to correct deficiencies.


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## doug mirabelli (Apr 2, 2020)

Rasta Roy said:


> It is low on K and way too high on N, P, and soluble fertilizers that will wash out of your soil instead of breaking down and providing you with the nutrients you need.
> 
> Here is a better recipe.
> 
> ...


I have a raised bed that I want to dig up and replace the soil. I may use this recipe to replace it. I'm thinking of putting in some bio live along with the 15% EWC. Then top feed with rose and flower or 0-11-0 seabird guano during the beginning of flowering. I also want to water with mammoth p and terpenez during flowering. Thats my general plan. Ive seen you around on here before and i know you know your shit. Is that a good general plan? I want to get the soil together soon so I can get some microbial activity in before i transplant into the bed in June. Peace


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## Trainwreckertonville (Apr 2, 2020)

doug mirabelli said:


> I have a raised bed that I want to dig up and replace the soil. I may use this recipe to replace it. I'm thinking of putting in some bio live along with the 15% EWC. Then top feed with rose and flower or 0-11-0 seabird guano during the beginning of flowering. I also want to water with mammoth p and terpenez during flowering. Thats my general plan. Ive seen you around on here before and i know you know your shit. Is that a good general plan? I want to get the soil together soon so I can get some microbial activity in before i transplant into the bed in June. Peace


A few things to note:

There are now many variations to subs supersoil over the years so its best to specify exactly your plan.

I did the “original” mix and had great results however I had leaf yellowing a few weeks into flower which became known as a common problem due to K deficiency. So plan on adding some K to the mix like langbenite.

He calls for 0-5-0 guano and stick to that because I used a few 0-10-0 and my soil test after harvest showed the P was SKY HIGH so you may not need to add alot of P in flower like you stated above even at the 0-5-0 rate. 

Use more compost, EWC and aeration than he calls for.

Going forward i’m using “coots mix” which has IMO a better mix of ingredients and no guanos. I also like that the mix is the entire pot instead of just the bottom layer as in subs mix. That layering is tough to reamend IMO because you have fully depleted soil in 3/4 of the pot and a hotter charge at the bottom. Nothing against subs mix at all, Ive seen great results and it was my segway into living soil and I appreciate his work for that.

This was the OG recipe im referring to.








Subcool's Super Soil Step-by-Step | High Times


There’s nothing that compares to the flavor of properly grown organic pot: The subtle tastes and aromas created by using only “Mother Earth” are




hightimes.com


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 6, 2020)

doug mirabelli said:


> I have a raised bed that I want to dig up and replace the soil. I may use this recipe to replace it. I'm thinking of putting in some bio live along with the 15% EWC. Then top feed with rose and flower or 0-11-0 seabird guano during the beginning of flowering. I also want to water with mammoth p and terpenez during flowering. Thats my general plan. Ive seen you around on here before and i know you know your shit. Is that a good general plan? I want to get the soil together soon so I can get some microbial activity in before i transplant into the bed in June. Peace


If you're using bio live I would skip the top feeds, the mam p, and the guano. I would evaluate how your plants are looking at around early/mid July...and then top dress with some more biolive in late July or sooner if needed. If you want to go a liquid fertilizer route I would getting something for tomatoes, that has a balanced fertilizer ratio but has a higher P and K than N. And I wouldn't use it until end of July, early August unless you saw a need for it sooner.


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 6, 2020)

Trainwreckertonville said:


> A few things to note:
> 
> There are now many variations to subs supersoil over the years so its best to specify exactly your plan.
> 
> ...


Coots Mix > Subs mix all day.


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## doug mirabelli (Apr 6, 2020)

Rasta Roy said:


> If you're using bio live I would skip the top feeds, the mam p, and the guano. I would evaluate how your plants are looking at around early/mid July...and then top dress with some more biolive in late July or sooner if needed. If you want to go a liquid fertilizer route I would getting something for tomatoes, that has a balanced fertilizer ratio but has a higher P and K than N. And I wouldn't use it until end of July, early August unless you saw a need for it sooner.


I appreciate your response. I'm not 100% sure on the Bio Live. Would you recommend it? I also don't want to buy a ton a single amendments and mix them myself. 

I live in the northeast, with the short growing season, I bought early harvesting strains this year so Ill push back your recommendations a couple weeks. There's so many routes to take and all I know is I want to keep a healthy organic garden. I tend not to like the idea of liquid nutes. Why do you say skip out on the mam P? Do you think its the same as a compost tea? I was drawn to it bc it claims to cause more phosphorous absorption. 

while waiting for my seeds to pop but I want to get the soil prepped. I decided that I'm going to to keep the current soil thats in my "flower bed" and just amend it going further. I was planning on top dressing with a bunch of bio live and letting it sit until juneish when I bring them outside. Is that a sound plan? Open mind on any recommendations. Thanks man


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 6, 2020)

doug mirabelli said:


> I appreciate your response. I'm not 100% sure on the Bio Live. Would you recommend it? I also don't want to buy a ton a single amendments and mix them myself.
> 
> I live in the northeast, with the short growing season, I bought early harvesting strains this year so Ill push back your recommendations a couple weeks. There's so many routes to take and all I know is I want to keep a healthy organic garden. I tend not to like the idea of liquid nutes. Why do you say skip out on the mam P? Do you think its the same as a compost tea? I was drawn to it bc it claims to cause more phosphorous absorption.
> 
> while waiting for my seeds to pop but I want to get the soil prepped. I decided that I'm going to to keep the current soil thats in my "flower bed" and just amend it going further. I was planning on top dressing with a bunch of bio live and letting it sit until juneish when I bring them outside. Is that a sound plan? Open mind on any recommendations. Thanks man


I've got two boxes of it waiting to fertilize the soil bed for my peppers this May. It's great stuff, it's got a perfect mix of quick and slow release organic fertilizers and I've had it carry some plants for a whole season with no need for a reamendment.

The best season I ever had I fertilizered my garden beds with composted rabbit manure and biolive. 

I've done grows with side by side of Mam P, and a few other supposed P boosters... if you already have a healthy garden, it's snake oil. Straight up.

It is not the same as compost tea, and honestly I would skip the compost tea in favor of mixing it into your soil and top dressing with it midseason as well.

Biolive is a pretty ready to go fertilizer there is no need to use it ahead of time. You will just lose the more readily available fertilizers to the rain. If you wanted to put down a fertilizer before hand I would stick to hot manures (like chicken shit) and throwing out some alfalfa seeds so you won't lose too much to the rain and then just til them into your bed to fertilize your plants.


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## doug mirabelli (Apr 7, 2020)

Rasta Roy said:


> I've got two boxes of it waiting to fertilize the soil bed for my peppers this May. It's great stuff, it's got a perfect mix of quick and slow release organic fertilizers and I've had it carry some plants for a whole season with no need for a reamendment.
> 
> The best season I ever had I fertilizered my garden beds with composted rabbit manure and biolive.
> 
> ...


Awesome response, you’re the man. I’ll keep it simple with the biolive throughout. You would add the bio live during early flower over the 4-8-4 rose and flower they have? I’ll consider the composted rabbit manure, if I see it maybe I’ll pick it up. Peace


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 9, 2020)

doug mirabelli said:


> Awesome response, you’re the man. I’ll keep it simple with the biolive throughout. You would add the bio live during early flower over the 4-8-4 rose and flower they have? I’ll consider the composted rabbit manure, if I see it maybe I’ll pick it up. Peace


Honestly I've never used the rose and flower mix so I'm not super familiar with what's in it. If you already picked some up I don't see the harm in sprinkling down a bit of both, most down to earth products are more or less composed of the same things. Biolive has some of the costlier ingredients is all. Honestly either product would probably take care of you just fine.


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## SoN3at (Jul 7, 2020)

I just threw together the ingredients for subs supersoil, have it in a garbage can lightly misted and stirred. I was hoping someone here could confirm that I am to stir once every week or two for the next month?


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## hillbill (Jul 7, 2020)

A little water ought to drip out when you squeeze a handful
Gets things going, herd will do the rest.


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## SoN3at (Jul 7, 2020)

hillbill said:


> A little water ought to drip out when you squeeze a handful
> Gets things going, herd will do the rest.


So I don’t need to stir ?


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## hillbill (Jul 7, 2020)

Make sure it’s mixed well then leave it alone a while.


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## TitanCannabisArchives (Jul 8, 2020)

SoN3at said:


> I just threw together the ingredients for subs supersoil, have it in a garbage can lightly misted and stirred. I was hoping someone here could confirm that I am to stir once every week or two for the next month?


After the first week do not stir. Leave the microbes alone to do their thing. Just make sure it doesnt dry out


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## TitanCannabisArchives (Jul 8, 2020)

SoN3at said:


> So I don’t need to stir ?


I make a recipe of my own making similar to this one and I only stir it once after 7 days then let it sit untouched for the remaining time, soil can take anywhere from 30 to 60 days to cook properly and it's important u mess with it as little as possible during this process to allow the microbes to do their job of breaking down all the nutrients. After 30 days u should be fine to use the soil but I have noticed a difference in explosion of growth after letting my soil sit for 60 days whether that is isolated to my mixture or environment I'm not sure


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## SoN3at (Jul 8, 2020)

TitanCannabisArchives said:


> I make a recipe of my own making similar to this one and I only stir it once after 7 days then let it sit untouched for the remaining time, soil can take anywhere from 30 to 60 days to cook properly and it's important u mess with it as little as possible during this process to allow the microbes to do their job of breaking down all the nutrients. After 30 days u should be fine to use the soil but I have noticed a difference in explosion of growth after letting my soil sit for 60 days whether that is isolated to my mixture or environment I'm not sure


Thats what i thought. A friend told me to stir it once every week or two and i thought to myself that cant be right.


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## Northwood (Jul 11, 2020)

I'm new to this cooking thing, even though I've been doing no-till organic for years now. Do you actually add so much fresh organic material in the ideal carbon ratio that your soil heats up, and the only creatures left standing in the end are thermophilic bacteria? What is the point of doing that?


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## hillbill (Jul 11, 2020)

It gets warm, not hot.


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## Northwood (Jul 11, 2020)

hillbill said:


> It gets warm, not hot.


I see. So how warm does it get normally? And why not just start by adding already made compost to get through cycle #1, and add organic material gradually throughout the grow for the next cycle? Is cannabis really that different from other plants that is requires such treatment? Just curious as to contemporary thought on this.


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## WheatGrowerPH (Jul 15, 2020)

is sub really gone kinda covid weird if you ask me


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## VILEPLUME (Aug 19, 2020)

malignant said:


> [video=youtube;s-jOcEMnTbc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&amp;v=s-jOcEMnTbc&amp;feature=endscreen[/video]


Says the video is unavailable...


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## DankDave420 (Aug 20, 2020)

Northwood said:


> I see. So how warm does it get normally? And why not just start by adding already made compost to get through cycle #1, and add organic material gradually throughout the grow for the next cycle? Is cannabis really that different from other plants that is requires such treatment? Just curious as to contemporary thought on this.


I'm no expert, from experience I know that when you mix it up, it smells like dead ass. After about a month it smells like sweet fresh soil. Also it gives whatever you are using for PH a chance to take effect. 
I can't tell if it actually physically warms up but I think "cook" is more of a slang term.


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## swangang69 (Dec 29, 2020)

hey guys i have recently been studying on a recipe for a super soil i have recently come across subcools small batch mix:

1 ten gallon bag of high quality Organic Potting Soil Such as “Roots Organic Soil”

 3 to 6 pounds of Organic Earthworm Castings (1 lb. of casting = about 1 gal.)

 10 ounces of Blood Meal ( 10 oz. of blood meal = about 1 & 1/2 cups)

 10 ounces of Bloom Bat Guano ( 10 oz. of guano = about 1 cup)

 10 ounces Fish Bone Meal ( 10 oz. of bone meal = about 1 cup)

 6 ounces Rock Phosphate

 1&1/2 tablespoons Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate)

 2 tablespoons or 1 oz. (liquid measure)of Dolomite Lime

 1 tablespoons or 1/2 oz. (liquid measure) of Azomite (trace elements)

 1 teaspoon of powdered Humic Acid


how does this mix look iam only looking for roughly 10 gallons of soil for my grow i plan on doing 1 photoperiod in my small space i want to move on from autoflowers now any other things i could add to this mix would be much appreciated. iam also open to other small mixes as well any help is appreciated.

i was also thinking about switching out he potting soil and using promix mycorrhizae if that is possible i very new to organics and would love to give it a go also would i litrally just need to feed water if i got this mix going or do i still need to top dress or feed teas ? thanks for any help weed nerd


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## Rurumo (Dec 29, 2020)

swangang69 said:


> hey guys i have recently been studying on a recipe for a super soil i have recently come across subcools small batch mix:
> 
> 1 ten gallon bag of high quality Organic Potting Soil Such as “Roots Organic Soil”
> 
> ...


It would work, but there are better mixes out there. Have you looked into Clackamascootz's mix? I think buildasoil has an archive of his recipes, or at least they used to. You also will need to study up on AACT http://microbeorganics.com/ and you should also research SST, sprouted seed tea, along with Cootz's mix to get the best of Cootz. It's better than this super soil blend. This one looks really hot, it would work but you'll need to let it cook for a looong time.


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## Flowtrail55 (Apr 13, 2021)

Has anyone used Malibu soil?
I'm using Malibu soil, Bu's blend. Organic potting soil. 

The guy at the hydroponics store recommended it. I was looking for Michigan mix M3 or SoHum super soil. No such luck First grow for me. 

Seems like my plants aren't growing quite as fast at they should. 
The larger small plant has yellow lower leaves. 


The seedling seems happy. Its starting to stretch. Its a little taller than this currently. (turned up the light this morning).


Does this seem like a soil issue? 
I know I have been guilty of over watering previously. But have since improved. 

If this post isn't in the right place, mods are welcome to move.


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## sirtalis (Apr 13, 2021)

Your nitrogen is getting locked out either by shitty soil or by overwatering, or both. The drooping leaves tell me it's the overwatering.

1. How often are you watering?
2. Does your soil already have nutrients?
3. How old are they and have you added nutrients yet?


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## Flowtrail55 (Apr 13, 2021)

sirtalis said:


> Your nitrogen is getting locked out either by shitty soil or by overwatering, or both. The drooping leaves tell me it's the overwatering.
> 
> 1. How often are you watering?
> 2. Does your soil already have nutrients?
> 3. How old are they and have you added nutrients yet?


I'm watering about 2 times a week. 

Soil has amendments and nutrients in it already. Its fully organic and has lots of good stuff in it from what I read. 


The seedling is about 2 weeks old. 
The larger plant is probably 5 weeks. Maybe more? The growth was slowed from a serious over watering while a seedling. It survived. 

I've cut back on my watering this past watering on both. 
I'm doing my best to try seeing if the plants need water. Not on a schedule.


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## poundofyourfinest (Apr 17, 2021)

Try picking up the pots and seeing how heavy they are, pick them up after planting then after watering, You could try transplanting the bigger one into new soil, try and get rid of the old soil some and give it a week or so.


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## Flowtrail55 (Apr 18, 2021)

poundofyourfinest said:


> Try picking up the pots and seeing how heavy they are, pick them up after planting then after watering, You could try transplanting the bigger one into new soil, try and get rid of the old soil some and give it a week or so.


I'll try repotting this week. 
Thanks for the tips.


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## Zett66 (Sep 18, 2021)

Flowtrail55 said:


> I'll try repotting this week.
> Thanks for the tips.


are those clay pots? If yes, they are not recommended since they hold water.

Since you already had issues with overeatering I recommend fabric pots.

Also small plants and seedlings can go with 1 watering a week or even longer. Top of soil might seem dry but the core is most likely still wet. 

The weight test as mentioned above is highly recommended as well.


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## Flowtrail55 (Sep 19, 2021)

Zett66 said:


> are those clay pots? If yes, they are not recommended since they hold water.
> 
> Since you already had issues with overeatering I recommend fabric pots.
> 
> ...


I repotted to fabric pots.


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## FlyingDutchman32 (Oct 23, 2021)

budmikey253905 said:


> Just started my first run with super soil and got a journal to go along.. anyone welcome to come along and see the weekly updates using subcools supersoil with roots organic as base soil.
> 
> Peace,
> bud


Id love to follow along, as I'm wanting to make this exa t switch to live soil grpwing.


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## Donnieray (Oct 28, 2021)

When I first decided to build my own soil I looked at subcools soil ingredients . Seemed really good but not very cost effective for me at the time not to mention it needing to cook for 30 days. From seeing others use it, it is a good mix for sure.


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## postmanwatching (Nov 4, 2021)

i wonder who's selling subcool the dank super soil on amazon? i guess tga will? he ought to be ashamed of himself. i think he was cosigner on business stuff with subcool...it's a tale as old as money...i had a cousin that got shot in the neck by his girl friend...she got let off because her dad was a judge and then his friend who has co bizness partner took all his money while in hospital...


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## weednerd.anthony.850 (Nov 5, 2021)

postmanwatching said:


> i wonder who's selling subcool the dank super soil on amazon? i guess tga will? he ought to be ashamed of himself. i think he was cosigner on business stuff with subcool...it's a tale as old as money...i had a cousin that got shot in the neck by his girl friend...she got let off because her dad was a judge and then his friend who has co bizness partner took all his money while in hospital...


He is also selling feminized versions of Chernobyl, Jesus og, and JTR in overseas seed banks, like alchimia web and grow barato… Sub was always so against feminized seeds it makes me think Will is just a money hungry type, it’s a huge bummer that I heard Joel from Norstar and Badger gave Will Space Queen to keep for good even though they weren’t on the best of terms with him. Sad to see anyone profit off of Subs death. RIP SUBCOOL we miss you brother.


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## weednerd.anthony.850 (Nov 5, 2021)

subcool.com
Website being ran by Will if I’m not mistaken


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## postmanwatching (Nov 5, 2021)

weednerd.anthony.850 said:


> He is also selling feminized versions of Chernobyl, Jesus og, and JTR in overseas seed banks, like alchimia web and grow barato… Sub was always so against feminized seeds it makes me think Will is just a money hungry type, it’s a huge bummer that I heard Joel from Norstar and Badger gave Will Space Queen to keep for good even though they weren’t on the best of terms with him. Sad to see anyone profit off of Subs death. RIP SUBCOOL we miss you brother.


dang that's crazy...hes selling his seeds and clones in dispensery in arizona too but the seeds aren't in the same kind of packaging...I guess the artist or printer tole him to eff off or something lol...


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## sunwestgenetics2021 (Nov 21, 2021)

Nice tutorial. Thank you!


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