# Learning...



## eye exaggerate (Jun 8, 2012)

Are you an atheist? Have you learned _anything_ from theists here that makes you wonder?

Are you a theist? Have you learned _anything_ from atheists here that makes you wonder?

...the volleys can't be flying for the sheer 'joy' of it  What are you going to take away from these discussions?

(I haven't mentioned the agnostics, if you were to ask me why I'd have to say that "I just don't know"  )

Me? I've learned to structure my thinking in a way that I didn't know about before. It's pretty cool.

You?


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 8, 2012)

Yeah of course.. I've learned PLENTY from atheists and theists. From atheists I've learned to use logic and to appreciate life no matter what. From theists, I've learned many little life lessons. They say it's god teaching me these things but they fail to realize that they have great knowledge of life. They just give the credit away.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 8, 2012)

I've learned no amount of rational discussion or logical thought will matter to someone shackled by faith. Rational arguments don't work on irrational people. I've learned speaking about religion with certain kinds of people is a waste of time. Not to get hung up on things I can't change. 

Funny I've never come across a religious person with any actual original thoughts or arguments for belief, a single time. I've been on the scene for 6 years, and every religious argument has been around for decades. 

I've learned that the internet is where organized religions come to die. Bullshit doesn't get past people seeking answers, and it's impossible to lie when anyone can get the correct answer with the touch of a button. Those that don't, don't want to know what's true. 

Worth 6 years of wasted time.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 8, 2012)

I've learned nothing from atheists. I had no idea that these passionate proof preachers even existed before I made an account here, and here I thought this place would be full of chill people that dont give a fuck about what people think or believe. I have learned something from you though Eye, I like reading what you have to say in discussions. You are the only christian I've met with the mindset that you have and you are one of the smarter people that I know, I had no idea christians like you existed lol.


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## tyler.durden (Jun 9, 2012)

Hey, Eye! Great thread idea. I really like this forum, the intellectuals, the crazies, the posers, the trolls, it's all good. It's SO entertaining, usually a lot better than what's on TV. I've learned a lot from so many of you, most of you are much more interesting than the people I run across IRL. There are some heavy thinkers here: from the skeptics, atheists and lovers of science I'm always learning something useful, and many are experts at subjects that really interest me. From the theists and believers of the supernatural, it's usually interesting to see where and why they're so very wrong. JK  It is interesting to see how and why they came by there beliefs. Hep is an amazing example of how the discussions here (along with courage and honest introspection) can facilitate a drastic change in one's thought processes and beliefs. I'm inclined to speculate that there are probably others that lurk in these forums who have experienced similar epiphanies...


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I've learned nothing from atheists. I had no idea that these passionate proof preachers even existed before I made an account here, and here I thought this place would be full of chill people that dont give a fuck about what people think or believe. I have learned something from you though Eye, I like reading what you have to say in discussions. You are the only christian I've met with the mindset that you have and you are one of the smarter people that I know, I had no idea christians like you existed lol.


You've learned nothing, that is not surprising. 

I don't care what anyone thinks or believes until it reaches into my life. Simple enough, eh?

Big difference from eye and other fanatical members. I wouldn't expect you to recognize the distinction, though, anyone with differing beliefs than your own or those that demand evidence of claims are dismissed as "proof preachers". Ironic.


I've also learned not to tolerate intolerant people.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I've learned nothing from atheists. I had no idea that these passionate proof preachers even existed before I made an account here, and here I thought this place would be full of chill people that dont give a fuck about what people think or believe. I have learned something from you though Eye, I like reading what you have to say in discussions. You are the only christian I've met with the mindset that you have and you are one of the smarter people that I know, I had no idea christians like you existed lol.


Well thanks lol. Stick around, you're bound to learn something.


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## tyler.durden (Jun 9, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Well thanks lol. Stick around, you're bound to learn something.


Or not............


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 9, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Or not............


lol, come on tyler he has to think about the things you guys say.. _just_ a little bit. Look he's already leanred that there's people that don't believe fairy tales are real. He's learning, he just doesn't want to admit it.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 9, 2012)

He trolls. He can't be a real person. Nothing he's described makes sense when analyzed. Fail troll fails.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 9, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> You've learned nothing, that is not surprising.
> 
> I don't care what anyone thinks or believes until it reaches into my life. Simple enough, eh?
> 
> ...


Your an anti-semite whos a "Spirituality Mod", obviously you care what other people think and believe. And in what way do other peoples beliefs reach into your life? Are you saying when someone says something that conflicts with science and atheism that it threatens you and you have to put them in their place?.. actually... Lets not start this... We are convinced that the other is an idiot and this never goes anywhere =).


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 9, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Well thanks lol. Stick around, you're bound to learn something.


I agree with pretty much everything that science has to offer, including the big bang, what else is there to learn from atheists besides "Everything spiritual is a fairy tale"??


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 9, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> He trolls. He can't be a real person. Nothing he's described makes sense when analyzed. Fail troll fails.


I got your panties in a bunch before, typing forcefully and shit, thats a win in my book =p.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I agree with pretty much everything that science has to offer, including the big bang, what else is there to learn from atheists besides "Everything spiritual is a fairy tale"??


It depends on what you ask them. If you ask them what the meaning of life is they will give you inspiring thoughts. They won't just tell you to put your trust in some god, which doesn't help.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Your an anti-semite whos a "Spirituality Mod", obviously you care what other people think and believe. And in what way do other peoples beliefs reach into your life? Are you saying when someone says something that conflicts with science and atheism that it threatens you and you have to put them in their place?.. actually... Lets not start this... We are convinced that the other is an idiot and this never goes anywhere =).


Orrrr you could hear pad out because he backs his claims up.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 9, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> It depends on what you ask them. If you ask them what the meaning of life is they will give you inspiring thoughts. They won't just tell you to put your trust in some god, which doesn't help.


And your still talking to me like Im religious lol


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Your an anti-semite whos a "Spirituality Mod", obviously you care what other people think and believe. And in what way do other peoples beliefs reach into your life? Are you saying when someone says something that conflicts with science and atheism that it threatens you and you have to put them in their place?.. actually... Lets not start this... We are convinced that the other is an idiot and this never goes anywhere =).



You don't know what 'anti-semite' means. 

I earned mod status. 

Religion reaches into my life by influencing religious politicians, thereby passing legislation based on religious foundations, which, often times, are completely contrary to American interests or subjective morality. Obvious.

When someone says something based on faith, it conflicts with logistical reasoning. The very definition of faith, which all organized religions are based on, is belief without sufficient evidence. In other words, belief based on authority, based on feeling, emotion, irrationality. These people should be publicly criticized because when doing so, it's impossible to stand up to reason. And being in public shames them back behind the curtain of irrationality, where they belong. If you have an idea, and it's of sound reasoning, it will be easy to convince other people of it's validity, if it's bullshit, they'll recognize it immediately. When it comes to science, the mob rule, rules, and there is a very specific reason for it. Understanding that reason is the first step to becoming a skeptical, reasonable, rational person. 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I got your panties in a bunch before, typing forcefully and shit, thats a win in my book =p.


Spoken like a true troll.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> And your still talking to me like Im religious lol


No I'm not. I know you don't have a religion. And I don't talk to anybody different because of their beliefs. You make some strange claims (just being honest  ) and they usually don't come with proof. This isn't about religion, it's about backing up your claims. Pad backs his up. If he told me science now shows us that dark matter controls gravity (not true), I'd ask him for proof. If he couldn't provide it, I'd simply not believe in him.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 9, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> No I'm not. I know you don't have a religion. And I don't talk to anybody different because of their beliefs. You make some strange claims (just being honest  ) and they usually don't come with proof. This isn't about religion, it's about backing up your claims. Pad backs his up. If he told me science now shows us that dark matter controls gravity (not true), I'd ask him for proof. If he couldn't provide it, I'd simply not believe in him.


I never maid any claims about god (I dont think lol) just claims that the ancients had advanced knowledge beyond our own. A good example of that is the self explanatory Flower of Life video but the only feedback I got was "blah blah CHERRY PICKING blah blah!"... I dont need to prove god to anyone, only person you need to prove god to is yourself. This beautiful and amazingly complex world proved god to me but even after that I experienced things that cemented my beliefs into facts because my gifted spiritual friend shown me sides to reality that I had no idea existed. I have no faith, thats believing without evidence, I've encountered supernatural evidence multiple times.

(edit) actually I have made claims about god but I dont give two shits if you believe them or not lol it doesnt change whats real.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I never maid any claims about god (I dont think lol) just claims that the ancients had advanced knowledge beyond our own. A good example of that is the self explanatory Flower of Life video but the only feedback I got was "blah blah CHERRY PICKING blah blah!"... I dont need to prove god to anyone, only person you need to prove god to is yourself. This beautiful and amazingly complex world proved god to me but even after that I experienced things that cemented my beliefs into facts because my gifted spiritual friend shown me sides to reality that I had no idea existed. I have no faith, thats believing without evidence, I've encountered supernatural evidence multiple times.


If you haven't made a claim about god yet, you have now . If you claim that god exists in public, you should back it up.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I never maid any claims about god (I dont think lol) just claims that the ancients had advanced knowledge beyond our own. A good example of that is the self explanatory Flower of Life video but the only feedback I got was "blah blah CHERRY PICKING blah blah!"... I dont need to prove god to anyone, only person you need to prove god to is yourself. This beautiful and amazingly complex world proved god to me but even after that I experienced things that cemented my beliefs into facts because my gifted spiritual friend shown me sides to reality that I had no idea existed. I have no faith, thats believing without evidence, I've encountered supernatural evidence multiple times.
> 
> (edit) actually I have made claims about god but I dont give two shits if you believe them or not lol it doesnt change whats real.


Dude, Mindphuk gave an explicit reply to your 'flower of life' video that you posted, and you left it at that, never giving a counter argument. He's even brought it up in 2 other threads that I've seen, still nothing. He put in considerable time and effort into the reply, and you simply ignored it. Stop kidding yourself. 

"The only person you need to prove God to is yourself" - perhaps the only shred of truth I've ever read you utter. 

You don't know what 'supernatural' means.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 9, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> If you haven't made a claim about god yet, you have now . If you claim that god exists in public, you should back it up.


Should I? Why is that? I suggest you re-read what I just told you.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Should I? Why is that? I suggest you re-read what I just told you.


'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence'

-Carl Sagan


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Should I? Why is that? I suggest you re-read what I just told you.


I just did. If you want to prove god to yourself, then go ahead. But please don't come in here saying stuff that doesn't make sense. And don't post things that you can't back up (with legit proof) without expecting people to argue against your claims. Sure you may believe your friends are proof enough for you, but they aren't for us .

I'm glad _your_ beliefs don't harm anybody. So props on that.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 9, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Dude, Mindphuk gave an explicit reply to your 'flower of life' video that you posted, and you left it at that, never giving a counter argument. He's even brought it up in 2 other threads that I've seen, still nothing. He put in considerable time and effort into the reply, and you simply ignored it. Stop kidding yourself.
> 
> "The only person you need to prove God to is yourself" - perhaps the only shred of truth I've ever read you utter.
> 
> You don't know what 'supernatural' means.


Your thinking about the pyramid video, numb nuts, and no one even watched half of it. Out of the many claims made in the video he decided to focus on just one to try and prove the whole video false. He focused on measurements of an incomplete pyramid and came up with a number thats under the speed of light.

And you know damn well I know what supernatural means. Im sure you remember the story of my spiritually gifted friend, you kept saying that it was all "coincidence" remember?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 9, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I just did. If you want to prove god to yourself, then go ahead. But please don't come in here saying stuff that doesn't make sense. And don't post things that you can't back up (with legit proof) without expecting people to argue against your claims. Sure you may believe your friends are proof enough for you, but they aren't for us .
> 
> I'm glad _your_ beliefs don't harm anybody. So props on that.


I can post what ever the fuck I want man lol I'll post anything I know to be true about god and spirituality as long as they hold relevance to the subject that we are discussing and theres fellow believers in spirit that might be interested. I dont give a shit if people are skeptical of my godly and spiritual claims, doesnt make it any less true =)


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I can post what ever the fuck I want man lol I'll post anything I know to be true about god and spirituality as long as they hold relevance to the subject that we are discussing and theres fellow believers in spirit that might be interested. I dont give a shit if people are skeptical of my godly and spiritual claims, doesnt make it any less true =)


Didn't mean to anger you bro lol. And yes, you do give a shit otherwise you'd be fine with us being skeptical. And you're right, I chose the wrong words. I said "don't post..." when I should have said "you should expect people to argue with you when you say things that don't have proof".. That's what I meant, didn't mean to come off like a dick.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 9, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Didn't mean to anger you bro lol. And yes, you do give a shit otherwise you'd be fine with us being skeptical. And you're right, I chose the wrong words. I said "don't post..." when I should have said "you should expect people to argue with you when you say things that don't have proof".. That's what I meant, didn't mean to come off like a dick.


I never thoroughly debated god here, because I dont care if you believe or not, I know what I say wont change your point of view. So no, I dont care what atheists have to say about god.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I never thoroughly debated god here, because I dont care if you believe or not, I know what I say wont change your point of view. So no, I dont care what atheists have to say about god.


I'm glad you threw in the "about god" part.. Surely you see us as your equals right?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 9, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I'm glad you threw in the "about god" part.. Surely you see us as your equals right?


well... Equals in a way that you would think is bullshit =p


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> well... Equals in a way that you would think is bullshit =p


Funny, I consider you my equal in a way that you don't believe .


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 9, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Funny, I consider you my equal in a way that you don't believe .


I might believe it, what way is that? We both are carbon based lifeforms that have the number of the beast, Carbon - 6 protons, 6 neutrons, 6 electrons, 666! lol just thought I'd throw that in there. We both have the ability to succeed where ever we want to succeed. Is that what you mean?


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I might believe it, what way is that? We both are carbon based lifeforms that have the number of the beast, Carbon - 6 protons, 6 neutrons, 6 electrons, 666! lol just thought I'd throw that in there. We both have the ability to succeed where ever we want to succeed. Is that what you mean?


I think we're equal in that we aren't products of a higher being.. We don't have a "greater meaning". We are just animals that continue the circle of life. And I'm damn proud of that. My death will lead to another persons life and so will yours. Your knowledge will live on to another human and so will mine. There is no good or any evil.. We create whatever we want and we name it good and evil but WE do that not any other being. In the sense that me AND you create our reality, I believe we are equals.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I might believe it, what way is that? We both are carbon based lifeforms that have the number of the beast, Carbon - 6 protons, 6 neutrons, 6 electrons, 666! lol just thought I'd throw that in there. We both have the ability to succeed where ever we want to succeed. Is that what you mean?


 
We also have 2 nostrils, 2 ears, 2 hands and 2 feet! OHHHH SPOOOKY! 2222!!


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 9, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> We also have 2 nostrils, 2 ears, 2 hands and 2 feet! OHHHH SPOOOKY! 2222!!


Two balls, two nipples, two eyes, I think your on to something man! =p


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## Zaehet Strife (Jun 9, 2012)

This dude cheif, is a follower of the new age religion of "indigo children" that originated somewhere between 1960's and late 1970's, and just recently since the 2012 mayan prophecy has increased in popularity. 

Just google "indigo children" for more information on the beliefs these wacko's hold onto. 

Light beings? Really? Comon.... we are animals, no more special than the smallest biological organism, no more special than the smallest atom. 

Cheif you are not special... but there (hopefully) will always be people in your life that gives you a sense of being special, but you arent lol, and neither are we.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Jun 9, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> Are you an atheist? Have you learned _anything_ from theists here that makes you wonder?
> 
> Are you a theist? Have you learned _anything_ from atheists here that makes you wonder?
> 
> ...



Good thread eye,I definetly have learned alot from everyone on RIU.I have learned alot more from the atheists/nihilists point of view than the theists,I also learned to diffuse my own fears about what I use to think was real,realizing all things thought of are in the mind first and foremost...something that simple eluded me until i started reading more posts and talking to more people on RIU,thats the truth of it.Then about the overall rationalizing mind of the human being more than anything,what you think,what you believe,and why or even how you could believe.Who ever said you couldnt learn something truely valueble on a stoner website right?


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## Doer (Jun 9, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> Are you an atheist? Have you learned _anything_ from theists here that makes you wonder?
> 
> Are you a theist? Have you learned _anything_ from atheists here that makes you wonder?
> 
> ...


I'm for the sheer joy.


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## dashcues (Jun 9, 2012)

Hey man.Nice idea for a thread.
My 1st post...yeeha!

From reading post after post on this subject,what I've learned is:

1.An atheist logic is as strong as a theist belief.Yin Yang
2.Each side has subjective experiences which strengthen their claims.Moments of doubt or divinity.
3.Neither side relinquishes.
4.Both sides have become paramount advocates of ad-hom attacks and logical fallacies.lol
5.Never toke the haze when trying to reply to these threads.lol


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 9, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> This dude cheif, is a follower of the new age religion of "indigo children" that originated somewhere between 1960's and late 1970's, and just recently since the 2012 mayan prophecy has increased in popularity.
> 
> Just google "indigo children" for more information on the beliefs these wacko's hold onto.
> 
> ...


Well I've always thought that the smallest atom is _very_ special.


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## kpmarine (Jun 9, 2012)

Patience in the face of willful ignorance; and that it's amazing the evidence one can ignore when it proves inconvenient.


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## tyler.durden (Jun 9, 2012)

kpmarine said:


> Patience in the face of willful ignorance; and that it's amazing the evidence one can ignore when it proves inconvenient.


Love the new avatar!


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## kpmarine (Jun 9, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Love the new avatar!


Thanks! I felt it expressed my feelings on deliberate butchery of the written word quite well. haha


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## Dr.J20 (Jun 9, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Rational arguments don't work on irrational people.


I've learned that there's no such binary opposition as "rational vs. irrational people." Everybody has a capacity for behaving rationally, and everybody has a capacity for behaving irrationally. To privilege the rational to the point of calling the irrational valueless is as dangerous as it's opposite.


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## drive (Jun 9, 2012)

I enjoy all of your threads for or against, proven or unproven


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## Dr.J20 (Jun 9, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Religion reaches into my life by influencing religious politicians, thereby passing legislation based on religious foundations, which, often times, are completely contrary to American interests or subjective morality. Obvious.
> 
> When someone says something based on faith, it conflicts with logistical reasoning. The very definition of faith, which all organized religions are based on, is belief without sufficient evidence. In other words, belief based on authority, based on feeling, emotion, irrationality. These people should be publicly criticized because when doing so, it's impossible to stand up to reason. And being in public shames them back behind the curtain of irrationality, where they belong. If you have an idea, and it's of sound reasoning, it will be easy to convince other people of it's validity, if it's bullshit, they'll recognize it immediately. When it comes to science, the mob rule, rules, and there is a very specific reason for it. Understanding that reason is the first step to becoming a skeptical, reasonable, rational person.
> 
> ...


It seems like you have a bigger problem with theocracy than religion; i do too. I don't think religion should play any kind of role in a government, and neither did the USA's founders. I agree that a hierarchical religion which exercises coercive power in secular matters is harmful and fascist in rhetoric; but that's not a religion, really: thats the corruption of a religious practice. I think this discussion gets too dicey when we start conflating things like faith, belief, and religion; it becomes especially fraught when we add in the atheist-agnostic stuff. Generalising and making broad statements, and then erecting broad, absolute sounding binaries like "Science vs. religion" really doesn't do anything for progress. I think we learned a lot from the Enlightenment in the West, but this speaks nothing for eastern epistemologies and so this perpetuation of radical skepticism and scientific primacy at the expense of religion really needs to take a step back and consider a less extreme stance. The danger of ignorance is great, but so is the danger in provincialism. Can we all at least agree that since religion is part of human history--despite the detestations of some of you--and so is valuable insofar as it can be studied? That is, since we're stuck with it, isn't the truly scientific approach to learn and study everything about it, about the people who believe in it, why they believe it, whether there are any genetic differences between believers and non-believers (to use a very reductive and horrible terminology)?
Be easy


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## Dr.J20 (Jun 9, 2012)

also, if you have an idea and it is of sound reasoning, this means nothing for the capacity to persuade others of its validity. thats why we're here right now. some people disagree on what is sound, and what is bullshit. see the problem here? 
For example, on some level, according to some phenomenologists, you believe the world still exists when you go to sleep at night, but no one has ever proved that to you: even a video of yourself sleeping is of questionable worth because it can only capture so much of the world. we just have faith that existence continues aside from our interaction with it; that the intersubjective constitution of reality hinges upon a diversity of perspectives, a diversity of points from whence reality may be constituted by the perceptions of living beings. this is just one way of looking at existence, used as an example which I think greatly obfuscates your statement,Padawan


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## kpmarine (Jun 9, 2012)

Dr.J20 said:


> also, if you have an idea and it is of sound reasoning, this means nothing for the capacity to persuade others of its validity. thats why we're here right now. some people disagree on what is sound, and what is bullshit. see the problem here?
> For example, on some level, according to some phenomenologists, you believe the world still exists when you go to sleep at night, but no one has ever proved that to you: even a video of yourself sleeping is of questionable worth because it can only capture so much of the world. we just have faith that existence continues aside from our interaction with it; that the intersubjective constitution of reality hinges upon a diversity of perspectives, a diversity of points from whence reality may be constituted by the perceptions of living beings. this is just one way of looking at existence, used as an example which I think greatly obfuscates your statement,Padawan


Except in order for the people to disagree on what is sound and is bullshit in relation to this thread, one side has to actually refuse to accept logic and science as a reasonable argument. Take your statement about us going to sleep and taking it on faith that the world is still there. In order to entertain that thought; you would have to decide that many credible people who were not sleeping were lying to you. Surely, if the world ceased to exist in your sleep, someone would have noticed?


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## Dr.J20 (Jun 9, 2012)

kpmarine said:


> Except in order for the people to disagree on what is sound and is bullshit in relation to this thread, one side has to actually refuse to accept logic and science as a reasonable argument. Take your statement about us going to sleep and taking it on faith that the world is still there. In order to entertain that thought; you would have to decide that many credible people who were not sleeping were lying to you. Surely, if the world ceased to exist in your sleep, someone would have noticed?


how exactly would someone have noticed that the world still existed while he or she was still sleeping? you see that phenomenological example requires of proof that it be presented to your senses...it is a slightly oblique manner of approaching heisenberg's uncertainty principle (wherein systemic uncertainty is introduced by the understanding that to study a system is to alter that system, making study perpetually just slightly retrospective; we can only say how things just were or predict where an electron would have been had we not disrupted it's path. 
so basically, yes, it is radically skeptical to say i think you're all fucking lying to me, if i have to take your facts just because someone else says your smart...see this is where the fetish for proof starts peeling back and revealing its own limitation.


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## eye exaggerate (Jun 9, 2012)

Dr.J20 said:


> how exactly would someone have noticed that the world still existed while he or she was still sleeping? you see that phenomenological example requires of proof that it be presented to your senses...it is a slightly oblique manner of approaching heisenberg's uncertainty principle (wherein systemic uncertainty is introduced by the understanding that to study a system is to alter that system, making study perpetually just slightly retrospective; we can only say how things just were or predict where an electron would have been had we not disrupted it's path.
> so basically, yes, it is radically skeptical to say i think you're all fucking lying to me, if i have to take your facts just because someone else says your smart...see this is where the fetish for proof starts peeling back and revealing its own limitation.




..........


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 9, 2012)

Dr.J20 said:


> how exactly would someone have noticed that the world still existed while he or she was still sleeping? you see that phenomenological example requires of proof that it be presented to your senses...it is a slightly oblique manner of approaching heisenberg's uncertainty principle (wherein systemic uncertainty is introduced by the understanding that to study a system is to alter that system, making study perpetually just slightly retrospective; we can only say how things just were or predict where an electron would have been had we not disrupted it's path.
> so basically, yes, it is radically skeptical to say i think you're all fucking lying to me, if i have to take your facts just because someone else says your smart...see this is where the fetish for proof starts peeling back and revealing its own limitation.


I knew every time I blinked, people would throw a party in front of me that would end before I opened my eyes. I also knew people were lying when they told me that doesn't happen. And I thought they were smart.. Silly me.


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## cannabineer (Jun 9, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I never maid any claims about god (I dont think lol) just claims that the ancients had advanced knowledge beyond our own. A good example of that is the self explanatory Flower of Life video but the only feedback I got was "blah blah CHERRY PICKING blah blah!"... I dont need to prove god to anyone, only person you need to prove god to is yourself. This beautiful and amazingly complex world proved god to me but even after that I experienced things that cemented my beliefs into facts because my gifted spiritual friend shown me sides to reality that I had no idea existed. I have no faith, thats believing without evidence, I've encountered supernatural evidence multiple times.
> 
> (edit) actually I have made claims about god but I dont give two shits if you believe them or not lol it doesnt change whats real.


There is a fine but critical distinction between "self-explanatory" (note hyphen) and "self-promoting". cn


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 10, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> This dude cheif, is a follower of the new age religion of "indigo children" that originated somewhere between 1960's and late 1970's, and just recently since the 2012 mayan prophecy has increased in popularity.
> 
> Just google "indigo children" for more information on the beliefs these wacko's hold onto.
> 
> ...


Nice try to poke some fun at me, got you one like lol. I am familiar with indigo children but the only thing I believe about that is that a lot of people are born with three strands of DNA. And the claims of indigo children did not give birth to new age spirituality, I dont even know what gave birth to new age spirituality, I didnt even know I was a new age spiritualist until six months after I started my spiritual journey. I was angry when I found they put a label onto something I practice. 

Doer gave a perfect example with his velvet reference on how you view experiences. "WOW! I just had an experience that is beyond words and is beyond science. BUT, if I try to label it, thats definitely not what it is, no chance! So instead, Im not gunna trust my self, Im going to discus it with a group of like minded people and see if I can use science to solve it because I am THAT dependent on science!". How can you say you are totally honest with yourself if you dont trust yourself?.. To which you'll say "well, I am probably being fooled by my senses there for claiming any meaning to something thats indescribable, I am lying to myself" IOW, "IT DOESNT MEAN I HAVE A SOUL! IM NO GULLIBLE THEIST!". 

I know what I know completely by experience, not reading about something and blindly following it, just experience. And the only explanations you guys could come up with to define my experiences is "Oh, well you just witnessed coincidences...Again and again and again and again! one after another, yep, coincidences." OR "your senses were fooling you, over and over and over and OVER again, humans are prone to illusions" and finally "Your either lying, or your crazy, because for you to be telling the truth, that means my idol (science) knows nothing at all, and spirits exist, making this guy in my display picture a fucking idiot"... If you experienced what I have experienced, you would have DEEP inner conflict, this shit would be digging at your soul. The psych ward would be right around the corner for you because you would not be ready to accept such experiences. It would completely destroy your view of the world (WAY more so than it did mine) and you would feel like a lost scared child and WISH you forget what you experienced. 

And for the third time, I know I am not special, all living things are equally divine. Some people may have advantages in knowledge and abilities (certainly not atheists, sorry to say, just speakin the truth) but they are not special. Just like you have somewhat of an advantage with that sacred symbol on your back that benefits you in ways you refuse to understand =). Im jealous of that tattoo, I want that sacred symbol and a couple others tattoo'd on me lol.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 10, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> ...I believe about that is that a lot of people are born with three strands of DNA.


Perfect example, why would you believe this if it can be so easily debunked?



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Doer gave a perfect example with his velvet reference on how you view experiences. "WOW! I just had an experience that is beyond words and is beyond science. BUT, if I try to label it, thats definitely not what it is, no chance! So instead, Im not gunna trust my self, Im going to discus it with a group of like minded people and see if I can use science to solve it because I am THAT dependent on science!". How can you say you are totally honest with yourself if you dont trust yourself?.. To which you'll say "well, I am probably being fooled by my senses there for claiming any meaning to something thats indescribable, I am lying to myself" IOW, "IT DOESNT MEAN I HAVE A SOUL! IM NO GULLIBLE THEIST!".


Where is the value in sticking the label "GOD dun it!" on something we can't explain? Or saying "it was a UFO!"? What does that add? Most people who say they see UFO's immediately jump onto the ALIENS! bandwagon because they've been conditioned their entire lives by the culture they live in to believe anything they can't identify that's flying MUST BE aliens! 

Get a load of this;

[youtube]_no4KQ7xDMM[/youtube]

This guy is absolutely convinced he's seeing a UFO, his sense of sight is LYING to him, convincing his brain he is seeing something he isn't. The reporter and his team set it up so a bunch of big balloons were released a couple miles away in order to TRICK the guy into believing he was seeing a UFO. 

All 5 of your senses are susceptible to this exact same process. 

After that explanation, you should be able to understand why we view peer review as something absolutely essential to scientific progress.

If you see something you don't understand, it doesn't matter, if you see something you don't understand, write a paper about it, take observations, make calculations, make predictions based on those calculations and come across the exact same thing again as predicted by your calculations and observations, that's science. Trying to skate past this system leads to bunk science and bullshit answers.

Basically, you can't fool thousands of people smarter than yourself who have the ability to test the claims you're making, so if what you present is bullshit, it will quickly be discovered. If on the other hand, each of those thousands of scientists who are smarter than you come to the same conclusions you did, that's science. 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I know what I know completely by experience, not reading about something and blindly following it, just experience.


So you don't believe in anything you haven't personally experienced yourself?



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> And the only explanations you guys could come up with to define my experiences is "Oh, well you just witnessed coincidences...Again and again and again and again! one after another, yep, coincidences." OR "your senses were fooling you, over and over and over and OVER again, humans are prone to illusions" and finally "Your either lying, or your crazy, because for you to be telling the truth, that means my idol (science) knows nothing at all, and spirits exist, making this guy in my display picture a fucking idiot"... If you experienced what I have experienced, you would have DEEP inner conflict, this shit would be digging at your soul. The psych ward would be right around the corner for you because you would not be ready to accept such experiences. It would completely destroy your view of the world (WAY more so than it did mine) and you would feel like a lost scared child and WISH you forget what you experienced.


Why don't you speak to a psychiatrist about these issues and actually get a professional opinion? Would you simply disregard anything s/he said because their practice is based in science?


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## kpmarine (Jun 10, 2012)

Dr.J20 said:


> how exactly would someone have noticed that the world still existed while he or she was still sleeping? you see that phenomenological example requires of proof that it be presented to your senses...it is a slightly oblique manner of approaching heisenberg's uncertainty principle (wherein systemic uncertainty is introduced by the understanding that to study a system is to alter that system, making study perpetually just slightly retrospective; we can only say how things just were or predict where an electron would have been had we not disrupted it's path.
> so basically, yes, it is radically skeptical to say i think you're all fucking lying to me, if i have to take your facts just because someone else says your smart...see this is where the fetish for proof starts peeling back and revealing its own limitation.


You don't take someone's word because someone told you to, that would be foolish. Facts remain facts, regardless of who presents them though. I see no limitation to demanding evidence of something; unless you mean it would limit people's ability to make decisions based on what makes them "feel good".


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## afrawfraw (Jun 10, 2012)

afrawfraw said:


> I have no interest in what one delusional entity thinks it sees. My senses and thought processes are fallible. So I don't trust what I perceive, however "real" it may seem. Manipulate my emotions, manipulate my perception. Who can I trust? A practice which seeks information only. A population of all faiths and backgrounds, drawn together to discover common truths. Can I say, "There's no god."? Of course not. I can only say that everyone who looked at the problem, discovered we don't have enough information. So "?" will have to do for now.


Too stoned to type this out again. Meh.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 10, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Perfect example, why would you believe this if it can be so easily debunked?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really Pad? You honestly think you made good argument? Gimme a break man. I dont know where UFO's came from but people who dont believe aliens visit us are seriously deluding themselves. You sure take your time to respond to me for someone who doesnt take me seriously at all. Why would I need to see a psychiatrist? Im happy, happy with my experiences and happy with what I know. You could say Im being more honest with myself by not seeing a psychiatrist or any other professional to discuss my experiences. And since theres no argument from you there I take it that what I said are your only explanations for my experiences... And if Im the troll your talking about, then your only feeding my satisfaction with your long winded regurgitated scientific bullshit lol. So keep it coming I guess =)


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 10, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Really Pad? You honestly think you made good argument?


Seeing as there was no attempt to counter any of the points I made, I'm going to go ahead and conclude the argument was valid. 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Gimme a break man. I dont know where UFO's came from but people who dont believe aliens visit us are seriously deluding themselves.


Where is the physical evidence that suggests aliens have visited the Earth?



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You sure take your time to respond to me for someone who doesnt take me seriously at all.


It doesn't take me long at all.



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Why would I need to see a psychiatrist? Im happy, happy with my experiences and happy with what I know. You could say Im being more honest with myself by not seeing a psychiatrist or any other professional to discuss my experiences.


Denial.



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> And since theres no argument from you there I take it that what I said are your only explanations for my experiences... And if Im the troll your talking about, then your only feeding my satisfaction with your long winded regurgitated scientific bullshit lol. So keep it coming I guess =)


Rational arguments don't work on irrational people.

And take a 'Trolls gon' Troll...' for the road.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 10, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Seeing as there was no attempt to counter any of the points I made, I'm going to go ahead and conclude the argument was valid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You feel that I am irrational yet you still throw regurgitated "rational" arguments in my face lol keep it coming pad =)


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 10, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You feel that I am irrational yet you still throw regurgitated "rational" arguments in my face lol keep it coming pad =)


It's not for you, it's for anyone reading along. Go look back through this thread alone, I saw multiple mentions of a skeptical mindset having impacted people in some way. 

Your type of thinking helps illustrate how irrational a persons mind can be, given certain circumstances, which are exposed with each reply. 

So yeah, at least you're contributing _that_&#8203;, eh...


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 10, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You feel that I am irrational yet you still throw regurgitated "rational" arguments in my face lol keep it coming pad =)


I believe sir pad asked you a question.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 10, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I believe sir pad asked you a question.


Point being, Peanut gallery?


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 10, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Point being, Peanut gallery?


He asked "Where is the physical evidence that suggests aliens have visited the Earth?" Can you answer that please?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 10, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> He asked "Where is the physical evidence that suggests aliens have visited the Earth?" Can you answer that please?


400 year old paintings with pictures of flying saucers in the sky, countless videos and pictures of UFO's, the most convincing ones are the most recent ones, and they are even covered by news stations. But of course, those arent evidence, right? Millions and millions of people were just being fooled by their senses, right? For just ONE of those pictures and videos to be true, it means we are not alone, but thats simply not the case, right?...riiiight.


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## eye exaggerate (Jun 10, 2012)

...hey Hep:


................


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 10, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...hey Hep:
> 
> View attachment 2207345
> ................


LOL. Nice... In the original picture god is reaching out from inside a brain, surprised no one clues into that.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 10, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> 400 year old paintings with pictures of flying saucers in the sky, countless videos and pictures of UFO's, the most convincing ones are the most recent ones, and they are even covered by news stations. But of course, those arent evidence, right? Millions and millions of people were just being fooled by their senses, right? For just ONE of those pictures and videos to be true, it means we are not alone, but thats simply not the case, right?...riiiight.



"400 year old paintings" - why couldn't people who lived 400 years ago paint something nonfictional? 



Why do you assume every picture of what _you_ perceive (based on cultural and societal conditioning I mentioned earlier) to be a UFO is somehow absolute proof of the existence of aliens, and better yet, that they've traversed the void of intergalactic space to come shine some lights in the sky or make crop circles? 

"Countless pictures and videos of UFO's" - do you know what Photoshop is? Do you know what 3D Studio Max is? Have you ever seen a major motion picture at any date later than 2000? Why would you assume these images and videos couldn't be fake? 

"Even covered by news stations" - ...you know what else news stations cover? Deaths of celebrities. News stations jobs are to gain ratings (viewers), it's not a surprise why there would be countless news stories related to 'UFO's' and absolutely zero physical evidence. In the end, this actually harms the real cause, things like SETI and NASA, it diminishes their credibility because they get lumped in with the crackpots who think every flickering light in the sky is a little green man with big black eyes from outer space. The ignorance is astounding.

"Millions of people could be fooled by their senses" - Yeah, because millions of people are made of exactly the same thing, put together exactly the same way, and are subject to exactly the same every day influences. Big surprise, I know!


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 10, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> "400 year old paintings" - why couldn't people who lived 400 years ago paint something nonfictional?
> 
> View attachment 2207349View attachment 2207350
> 
> ...


Seen this coming lol


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## eye exaggerate (Jun 10, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> LOL. Nice... In the original picture god is reaching out from inside a brain, surprised no one clues into that.



...few can see it, that's true. I suppose the surface of things has enough evidence to keep the rest out 

...I kid I kid!


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 10, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Seen this coming lol


Do you agree with him? The pics could just be fun drawings. There's plenty of weird carvings out there, it doesn't count as evidence though. If you say "yes it does" or anything like that, you're gonna make me find a ancient carving of a bear horse or some shit. Then I'm gonna ask you if bear horses exist. Don't make me do it lol.

And yeah, news stations showing the vids means absolutely nothing (to me at least). Half the stuff they say isn't true. Like their reincarnation thing is just to get views. So are the UFO vids.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 10, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Seen this coming lol


Any idiot can make a claim, not everyone can back it up. The 'back it up' part is when people start taking you seriously.

Are you proud/happy to be ignorant of real facts or are you constantly battling inside your own head with your ego because you know what's being put to page here in these posts, and indeed ever since you've been a member, is what's true and you just can't admit it? Why do you see losing the battle inside your head as a weakness? Learning to let go of the ego to understand what's real regardless of personal beliefs is one of the early stages of enlightenment.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 10, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Any idiot can make a claim, not everyone can back it up. The 'back it up' part is when people start taking you seriously.
> 
> Are you proud/happy to be ignorant of real facts or are you constantly battling inside your own head with your ego because you know what's being put to page here in these posts, and indeed ever since you've been a member, is what's true and you just can't admit it? Why do you see losing the battle inside your head as a weakness? Learning to let go of the ego to understand what's real regardless of personal beliefs is one of the early stages of enlightenment.


lol ego... How ironic... Give it up you angry child.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 10, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> lol ego... How ironic... Give it up you angry child.


Like I said, man, each post is only showing the true colors. Personally, you're the one coming off as angry and offended. I'm typing out thoughtful responses to each irrational point you're making that establish shaky foundations for your beliefs. Like I said before, I'm not seeing any counter points, so that can really only mean one thing... 

A sensible men acknowledge mistakes. It's strengthening because it's difficult to do, and, clearly, not everyone can do it.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 10, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Like I said, man, each post is only showing the true colors. Personally, you're the one coming off as angry and offended. I'm typing out thoughtful responses to each irrational point you're making that establish shaky foundations for your beliefs. Like I said before, I'm not seeing any counter points, so that can really only mean one thing...
> 
> A sensible men acknowledge mistakes. It's strengthening because it's difficult to do, and, clearly, not everyone can do it.


Your arguments can be used against everyone with a supernatural belief, where does that get you? With your point of view, atheistic science will be on top everytime. You are CONVINCED that atheistic science is the only true way. You wont even consider any other possibilities because science will tell you that those possibilities are irrational and simply cant be true, thats how dependent you are on it. "god" could appear out of thin air, fart in your face and say "I told you so!" then vanish and you would still not believe it because you are that thick headed.


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## kpmarine (Jun 10, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Your arguments can be used against everyone with a supernatural belief, where does that get you? With your point of view, atheistic science will be on top everytime. You are CONVINCED that atheistic science is the only true way. You wont even consider any other possibilities because science will tell you that those possibilities are irrational and simply cant be true, thats how dependent you are on it. "god" could appear out of thin air, fart in your face and say "I told you so!" then vanish and you would still not believe it because you are that thick headed.


That would be compelling evidence of a being beyond our current understanding. I doubt Pad would ignore such a momentous event.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 10, 2012)

kpmarine said:


> That would be compelling evidence of a being beyond our current understanding. I doubt Pad would ignore such a momentous event.


IDK, he might just think he's hallucinating. Maybe he can capture the magical fart.


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## kpmarine (Jun 10, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> IDK, he might just think he's hallucinating. Maybe he can capture the magical fart.


It would be worth some money to someone. " "God"? Flatulence!!: $500"


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 10, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> IDK, he might just think he's hallucinating. Maybe he can capture the magical fart.


lol exactly, he would convince himself that he didnt see what he thought he seen.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 10, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Your arguments can be used against everyone with a supernatural belief, where does that get you? With your point of view, atheistic science will be on top everytime. You are CONVINCED that atheistic science is the only true way. You wont even consider any other possibilities because science will tell you that those possibilities are irrational and simply cant be true, thats how dependent you are on it. "god" could appear out of thin air, fart in your face and say "I told you so!" then vanish and you would still not believe it because you are that thick headed.


Dismissing supernatural beliefs that can't be verified leaves you with _natural_ beliefs that _can_. Why would you choose to believe something that could possibly be false in favor of something verifiable true? 

There is no such thing as "atheistic science". Two completely separate things. Atheism. Science. There are theistic scientists just like there are everyday regular atheists with no professional training in science. 

If it can't be verified using science, it's useless. Name one thing that is useful, even if you aren't sure of its existence. 

You are just as dependent on science as I am, you just refuse to admit it while enjoying all of its benefits. 

What, in that entire interaction, would lead you to believe such a being is "God" as any organized religion has defined it? Would you simply believe it's "God" just because _it_ told you _it_ was? What if the exact same thing happened, except this time it looked like Mickey Mouse? 

If you are to believe any of the organized religions origins, it would take a whole lot more than some being popping into existence, exclaiming it's own divinity, saying it told me so, and vanishing. Any retard that would worship such a being deserves to be shamed back to the realm of crazy. 

You strike me as one of those people who would bow down and worship any being you deemed worthy. Be it some species of alien a million times our level of technology, or a guy who can speak 5 broken languages who tells you he can read your mind and you should start a cult together... 


Logic'd


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 10, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Dismissing supernatural beliefs that can't be verified leaves you with _natural_ beliefs that _can_. Why would you choose to believe something that could possibly be false in favor of something verifiable true?
> 
> There is no such thing as "atheistic science". Two completely separate things. Atheism. Science. There are theistic scientists just like there are everyday regular atheists with no professional training in science.
> 
> ...


LOL worship, oh my, way off. Maybe you should see what Z thinks about me and my beliefs, at least he was kinda close.


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## afrawfraw (Jun 10, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Your arguments can be used against everyone with a supernatural belief, where does that get you? With your point of view, atheistic science will be on top everytime. You are CONVINCED that atheistic science is the only true way. You wont even consider any other possibilities because science will tell you that those possibilities are irrational and simply cant be true, thats how dependent you are on it. "god" could appear out of thin air, fart in your face and say "I told you so!" then vanish and you would still not believe it because you are that thick headed.


If this occurred in eye sight of myself, my reaction would not be, "That was God." My reaction would be, "What is that entity? What is it comprised of? What gaseous mixture did it just excrete in Pad's face? How did it add and subtract mass from itself?" Something like that.

It isn't what you see, but how you see it. Do you rely on fallible perception, or objective reality. The notion that this being was a "God" would not be accepted by the entire world. Quantifying it's chemistry and abilities would.

Love, peace, and chicken grease.

Oh, and you've never learned anything from an Atheist. Let me try. (Clears throat)

When I was 12, I started playing D&D.

You didn't know that. Now you do. You've just received knowledge from an Atheist. Congrats.


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## afrawfraw (Jun 10, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Your arguments can be used against everyone with a supernatural belief, where does that get you? With your point of view, atheistic science will be on top everytime. You are CONVINCED that atheistic science is the only true way. You wont even consider any other possibilities because science will tell you that those possibilities are irrational and simply cant be true, thats how dependent you are on it. "god" could appear out of thin air, fart in your face and say "I told you so!" then vanish and you would still not believe it because you are that thick headed.


I would never put science up against faith. Fool's battle. When a person has faith, their belief becomes as real as the screen your looking at. I would find it disrespectful to apply objective logic to a persons beliefs based on faith. 

Like buying your father in law, who loves Chevy's, a Ford.

Even if the truck is in much better shape, the offer is refused because of emotional response.

=)


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 10, 2012)

afrawfraw said:


> I would never put science up against faith. Fool's battle. When a person has faith, their belief becomes as real as the screen your looking at. I would find it disrespectful to apply objective logic to a persons beliefs based on faith.
> 
> Like buying your father in law, who loves Chevy's, a Ford.
> 
> ...


I have no faith.


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## cannabineer (Jun 10, 2012)

afrawfraw said:


> I would never put science up against faith. Fool's battle. When a person has faith, their belief becomes as real as the screen your looking at. I would find it disrespectful to apply objective logic to a persons beliefs based on faith.
> 
> Like buying your father in law, who loves Chevy's, a Ford.
> 
> ...


There's a way to Dodge that dilemma. cn


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## afrawfraw (Jun 10, 2012)

Owe, owe,owe,owe,owe.

Failing logic is obvious, and painful. For both of us. Because it hurts just to watch.


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## afrawfraw (Jun 10, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I have no faith.


OK. Didn't propose anything on your beliefs. Your statement was towards supernatural beliefs and comparing with science. No attack intended.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jun 11, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I have no faith.


I don't believe you.


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## eye exaggerate (Jun 11, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Hey, Eye! Great thread idea. I really like this forum, the intellectuals, the crazies, the posers, the trolls, it's all good. It's SO entertaining, usually a lot better than what's on TV. I've learned a lot from so many of you, most of you are much more interesting than the people I run across IRL. There are some heavy thinkers here: from the skeptics, atheists and lovers of science I'm always learning something useful, and many are experts at subjects that really interest me. From the theists and believers of the supernatural, it's usually interesting to see where and why they're so very wrong. JK  It is interesting to see how and why they came by there beliefs. Hep is an amazing example of how the discussions here (along with courage and honest introspection) can facilitate a drastic change in one's thought processes and beliefs. I'm inclined to speculate that there are probably others that lurk in these forums who have experienced similar epiphanies...


...I agree, there are a ton of interesting characters in here  Just as a side(ish) note, have you ever communicated with someone in a dream, or while in a meditative state?


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## eye exaggerate (Jun 11, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I've learned no amount of rational discussion or logical thought will matter to someone shackled by faith. Rational arguments don't work on irrational people. I've learned speaking about religion with certain kinds of people is a waste of time. Not to get hung up on things I can't change.
> 
> Funny I've never come across a religious person with any actual original thoughts or arguments for belief, a single time. I've been on the scene for 6 years, and every religious argument has been around for decades.
> 
> ...


...well, Pad, I am a 'novel idea' factory (when all flows well  ), it's what I do for a living. That, coupled with my belief, has a bit to say about 'no original thoughts'. If there is nothing new under the sun then it is clear that science is just connecting dots that were already there. Where's the new stuff from science? If science is 'made of matter' lets say, then really it is nothing more than lego for arrogant 'grown ups'. I don't mean that as a jab either, because I play with those same legos, so-to-speak.

To me there is zero delusion in holding science in one hand, and belief in the other. Otherwise, (imo) I would not be on this planet - it is 100% necessary to have consciousness and matter to play here. I think that both science and religion negate one half of themselves - and, here we are discussing it. Stuck in the middle, if one is lucky enough.


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## eye exaggerate (Jun 11, 2012)

dashcues said:


> From reading post after post on this subject,what I've learned is:
> 
> 1.An atheist logic is as strong as a theist belief.Yin Yang
> 2.Each side has subjective experiences which strengthen their claims.Moments of doubt or divinity.
> ...


...correct on all 5 counts. This was a good way to start posting here


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## Doer (Jun 11, 2012)

"I've learned no amount of rational discussion or logical thought will matter to someone shackled by faith. Rational arguments don't work on irrational people. I've learned speaking about religion with certain kinds of people is a waste of time. Not to get hung up on things I can't change. "

Let's have a look at your roadblocks. "shackled by faith" "irrational people" "certain kinds of people"


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## afrawfraw (Jun 11, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I don't believe you.


A skeptic takes nothing on faith, even yours.


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## drive (Jun 11, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> there's a way to dodge that dilemma. Cn


hahahahahahhahahahaha


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## drive (Jun 11, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I have no faith.


I think you are a tricky raven Chief but you can't fool me. you believe what your eyes have seen and your mind has thought.


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## mindphuk (Jun 11, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Your thinking about the pyramid video, numb nuts, and no one even watched half of it. Out of the many claims made in the video he decided to focus on just one to try and prove the whole video false. He focused on measurements of an incomplete pyramid and came up with a number thats under the speed of light.


Still dancing and spinning I see. Revisionist history and obvious inability to grasp what I was trying to explain.
I did not watch the video and focus on one part. If you recall, YOU made a claim in a post and I asked you to support it and you used the video as your support. When I did the same calculations, the exact same math, on the exact same pyramid (not an incomplete one) that the anonymous pyramid 'expert' performed, I got a value that was different from the speed of light by MAGNITUDES. Basically, they lied to you in the video and the only retort you had was that I should watch the whole thing. When I asked you why it was so important to watch the whole thing after I caught them in sheer dishonesty, you began to talk about all of the other parallels and connections to other places on earth. I told you I would be willing to discuss those other things once you acknowledged the fact that they were lying about the speed of light claim or show me where my math was wrong. I asked you that if they were dishonest in one part, why would I expect the rest of he video to be truthful? You dodged and danced splendidly while ignoring every point I made up until this day where you misrepresent what I found.

The lesson I got from our exchange is that you are not interested in truth and you are disingenuous in your dialogue with skeptics like me.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 11, 2012)

drive said:


> I think you are a tricky raven Chief but you can't fool me. you believe what your eyes have seen and your mind has thought.


Yes, I do believe what I have experienced is exactly what I think it is. I have experienced it too many times at will for it to be coincidence or trickery by my senses or someone else. When you THINK about questions in your head multiple times, and someone answers those specific questions every single time, I think its pretty clear whats going on lol... Im talking about a person btw


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 11, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Yes, I do believe what I have experienced is exactly what I think it is. I have experienced it too many times at will for it to be coincidence or trickery by my senses or someone else. When you THINK about questions in your head multiple times, and someone answers those specific questions every single time, I think its pretty clear whats going on lol... Im talking about a person btw


Well, we could easily test that, and prove it one way or the other, but my guess is you'd oppose it or say something along the lines of "my friend doesn't want to be tested, he doesn't care, I don't have to prove anything to you...", sooo...


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## tyler.durden (Jun 11, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I agree, there are a ton of interesting characters in here  Just as a side(ish) note, have you ever communicated with someone in a dream, or while in a meditative state?


 Okay, I'll bite  I've dreamed that I communicated with lots of people...


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## eye exaggerate (Jun 11, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Okay, I'll bite  I've dreamed that I communicated with lots of people...


Sweet 

...do you think any of them were aware of communicating with you at the same time? I'd like to point out that there's no 'hook' here, I'm going with the flow, yo  Just a couple of people who get a kick out of making 'stuff' (ie: music, etc...) Actually, now that I write that... do musicians just have really good timing? Is there 'another' form of communication happening when they are in sync?


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## tyler.durden (Jun 11, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> Sweet
> 
> ...do you think any of them were aware of communicating with you at the same time? I'd like to point out that there's no 'hook' here, I'm going with the flow, yo  Just a couple of people who get a kick out of making 'stuff' (ie: music, etc...) Actually, now that I write that... do musicians just have really good timing? Is there 'another' form of communication happening when they are in sync?


Cool  It's never occurred to me to ask those people I dreamed about if they had dreamed of me simultaneously, and it's never come up. Of course, some of those people were dead at the time. 
There is definitely a non-verbal form of communication going on between musicians playing together, and it seems to get more intimate and profound the longer they play together. My best friend is a pianist and we get together at least once a week to play through cool music he digs up, and there is a deep communication and intimacy that no other experience can touch. I think it is obvious to others, I often see our significant others act jealous of this connection as it's something they (not being musicians) can't share. Do you experience similar things?


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## Dr.J20 (Jun 11, 2012)

kpmarine said:


> You don't take someone's word because someone told you to, that would be foolish. Facts remain facts, regardless of who presents them though. I see no limitation to demanding evidence of something; unless you mean it would limit people's ability to make decisions based on what makes them "feel good".


yes, facts may remain facts, regardless of who presents them, but when do they become facts?
And peer review, in science, is precisely to check whether a datum is consistently reproducible within a range of error; that groups of scientists have dedicated their lives to preserving and investigating these facts does a great good for humanity, but only because we trust those scientists to engage in unimpassioned investigation. If each person had to continually prove every scientific fact for himself continuously, we would not be able to function as a society. But, please recognize that you are basically taking it on faith that the above adherences to rigor were undertaken in the production of fact. Also, please recognize, that you are still, eventually, deferring to consensus as the marker of fact--e.g., "lots of smarter people than I have tested fact x and find it reasonable to declare x a fact, therefore I should take their word, because i just don't have time and resources to read through and try to reproduce the experiences which led them to accept fact x. I ought to believe a "fact" because others have already done the skeptical work and found it reasonable to accept that "fact;" That is, of course, until the fact comes under question by another scientist who tests his claims and produces reproducible, peer reviewable studies which refute the fact, leading to the formation of a more honed, more accurate fact. This is a good system, but it does ask a large cross-section of humanity to just believe its results. It may not care whether you question those facts, but neither do ALL religions prohibit such contemplation, and, indeed, many encourage such exploration and struggle. 
be easy


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## eye exaggerate (Jun 11, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Cool  It's never occurred to me to ask those people I dreamed about if they had dreamed of me simultaneously, and it's never come up. Of course, some of those people were dead at the time.
> There is definitely a non-verbal form of communication going on between musicians playing together, and it seems to get more intimate and profound the longer they play together. My best friend is a pianist and we get together at least once a week to play through cool music he digs up, and there is a deep communication and intimacy that no other experience can touch. I think it is obvious to others, I often see our significant others act jealous of this connection as it's something they (not being musicians) can't share. Do you experience similar things?


...100%. I've often wondered about the connection while playing - then I fck up my timing and try to not think again  And, though I know you may laugh a little, dreaming of deceased people applies here for sure. There's heaps of study into it. It's all linked in with coincidence, healing the family tree, and all that 'new age' stuff that is actually very old. Anyway, when I practice music I reach a meditative state. I'm right fckn out of it. To me, there's a more pronounced faculty involved, because, I'm 'there' playing, but not. Always doing my best to remember to get out of my own way. I remembered that you play with a piano friend from the early days of the Music thread. Sounds cool.


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## cannabineer (Jun 11, 2012)

Dr.J20 said:


> yes, facts may remain facts, regardless of who presents them, but when do they become facts?
> And peer review, in science, is precisely to check whether a datum is consistently reproducible within a range of error; that groups of scientists have dedicated their lives to preserving and investigating these facts does a great good for humanity, but only because we trust those scientists to engage in unimpassioned investigation. If each person had to continually prove every scientific fact for himself continuously, we would not be able to function as a society. But, please recognize that you are basically taking it on faith that the above adherences to rigor were undertaken in the production of fact. Also, please recognize, that you are still, eventually, deferring to consensus as the marker of fact--e.g., "lots of smarter people than I have tested fact x and find it reasonable to declare x a fact, therefore I should take their word, because i just don't have time and resources to read through and try to reproduce the experiences which led them to accept fact x. I ought to believe a "fact" because others have already done the skeptical work and found it reasonable to accept that "fact;" That is, of course, until the fact comes under question by another scientist who tests his claims and produces reproducible, peer reviewable studies which refute the fact, leading to the formation of a more honed, more accurate fact. This is a good system, but it does ask a large cross-section of humanity to just believe its results. It may not care whether you question those facts, but neither do ALL religions prohibit such contemplation, and, indeed, many encourage such exploration and struggle.
> be easy


Scientific investigation is one of the most impassioned human activities. Facts remain after the passion fraction has been distilled off. cn


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## tyler.durden (Jun 11, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...100%. I've often wondered about the connection while playing - then I fck up my timing and try to not think again  And, though I know you may laugh a little, dreaming of deceased people applies here for sure. There's heaps of study into it. It's all linked in with coincidence, healing the family tree, and all that 'new age' stuff that is actually very old. Anyway, when I practice music I reach a meditative state. I'm right fckn out of it. To me, there's a more pronounced faculty involved, because, I'm 'there' playing, but not. Always doing my best to remember to get out of my own way. I remembered that you play with a piano friend from the early days of the Music thread. Sounds cool.


That's a great description of the musical experience: you do get into a meditative/altered state of consciousness. "I'm there playing, but not..." that's it exactly. Sometimes the only thing my consciousness is used for while playing (esp. while sight-reading) is keeping track of where the fuck '1' is  Consciousness gets in the way of many intricate, learned skills: athletes, performers, artists, etc. report that thinking consciously about what exactly there bodies are doing throws a wrench into the works and trips them up. It seems that consciousness is very necessary in technically learning a piece, but once muscle-memory is established consciousness can be detrimental to performance. Do you get to play regularly?


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## eye exaggerate (Jun 11, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> That's a great description of the musical experience: you do get into a meditative/altered state of consciousness. "I'm there playing, but not..." that's it exactly. Sometimes the only thing my consciousness is used for while playing (esp. while sight-reading) is keeping track of where the fuck '1' is  Consciousness gets in the way of many intricate, learned skills: athletes, performers, artists, etc. report that thinking consciously about what exactly there bodies are doing throws a wrench into the works and trips them up. It seems that consciousness is very necessary in technically learning a piece, but once muscle-memory is established consciousness can be detrimental to performance. Do you get to play regularly?


...practice _almost_ daily. I've been working on something for a few years, but it waits as life takes precedence. A little time off helps to fully cook ideas, and makes for less editing - as an unexpected benefit


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## kpmarine (Jun 11, 2012)

Dr.J20 said:


> yes, facts may remain facts, regardless of who presents them, but when do they become facts?
> And peer review, in science, is precisely to check whether a datum is consistently reproducible within a range of error; that groups of scientists have dedicated their lives to preserving and investigating these facts does a great good for humanity, but only because we trust those scientists to engage in unimpassioned investigation. If each person had to continually prove every scientific fact for himself continuously, we would not be able to function as a society. But, please recognize that you are basically taking it on faith that the above adherences to rigor were undertaken in the production of fact. Also, please recognize, that you are still, eventually, deferring to consensus as the marker of fact--e.g., "lots of smarter people than I have tested fact x and find it reasonable to declare x a fact, therefore I should take their word, because i just don't have time and resources to read through and try to reproduce the experiences which led them to accept fact x. I ought to believe a "fact" because others have already done the skeptical work and found it reasonable to accept that "fact;" That is, of course, until the fact comes under question by another scientist who tests his claims and produces reproducible, peer reviewable studies which refute the fact, leading to the formation of a more honed, more accurate fact. This is a good system, but it does ask a large cross-section of humanity to just believe its results. It may not care whether you question those facts, but neither do ALL religions prohibit such contemplation, and, indeed, many encourage such exploration and struggle.
> be easy


That's why science has so many vigorous steps you must go thorough, it prevents bad science from getting disseminated officially. It's admittedly not perfect, but it does a good job of policing itself. Generally speaking, most of the advancements I have seen have not refuted prior discoveries, so much as clarified them further. I do see where you are coming from though, I think. I suppose the biggest difference between deference to scientific consensus and deference to religious consensus, in my opinion; would be that one is based in something I can verify if I wish to and have the time and resources, whereas the other is quite the opposite. Ultimately though, I guess even scientific methods were designed to remind people that what we know to be facts is not always that simple. They even went so far as to never technically have a scientific "fact", even the most well proven of ideas is only a "theory".


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## tyler.durden (Jun 12, 2012)

kpmarine said:


> That's why science has so many vigorous steps you must go thorough, it prevents bad science from getting disseminated officially. It's admittedly not perfect, but it does a good job of policing itself. Generally speaking, most of the advancements I have seen have not refuted prior discoveries, so much as clarified them further. I do see where you are coming from though, I think. I suppose the biggest difference between deference to scientific consensus and deference to religious consensus, in my opinion; would be that one is based in something I can verify if I wish to and have the time and resources, whereas the other is quite the opposite. Ultimately though, I guess even scientific methods were designed to remind people that what we know to be facts is not always that simple. They even went so far as to never technically have a scientific "fact", even the most well proven of ideas is only a "theory".


Actually, Theory is the highest form of knowledge in science, theories incorporate many facts. The way laypeople use the word theory is anything from a valid hypothesis to some wild guess pulled from someone's ass


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## kpmarine (Jun 12, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Actually, Theory is the highest form of knowledge in science, theories incorporate many facts. The way laypeople use the word theory is anything from a valid hypothesis to some wild guess pulled from someone's ass


I know a scientific theory is based on fact. I meant that I found it interesting that science's highest level of truth is called a "theory", not a "fact". I always took that as a nod to a belief there is always more to learn. Sorry if I came across as trying to say theories were not facts, in respect to science.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 12, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Well, we could easily test that, and prove it one way or the other, but my guess is you'd oppose it or say something along the lines of "my friend doesn't want to be tested, he doesn't care, I don't have to prove anything to you...", sooo...


lol Would you like to contact him? I have no control over his actions or motives, hes just a kid who wants to live his life care free and doesnt care for being a science experiment. He'd rather not have the attention too I'd imagine, since he got annoyed at my relevant curious questions. Fuck, if I had a fat bank account I would send you down here just to see the look on your face when you find out for yourself lol wouldnt even need to get all techy with the experiment, he'd just talk to you... If you wanna contact him and question him then I can ask him if hes willing to talk to you, but I'd have to tell him what kinda person you are and that might put him off... Plus, its not like it changes anything if a scientist examines him or not lol.


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## tyler.durden (Jun 12, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> lol Would you like to contact him? I have no control over his actions or motives, hes just a kid who wants to live his life care free and doesnt care for being a science experiment. He'd rather not have the attention too I'd imagine, since he got annoyed at my relevant curious questions. Fuck, if I had a fat bank account I would send you down here just to see the look on your face when you find out for yourself lol wouldnt even need to get all techy with the experiment, he'd just talk to you... If you wanna contact him and question him then I can ask him if hes willing to talk to you, but I'd have to tell him what kinda person you are and that might put him off... Plus, its not like it changes anything if a scientist examines him or not lol.


Wow, wouldn't that be awesome! I'm willing to donate some dough to fly Pad out to see the Chief's friend, anyone else with me? It would be the most entertaining thing I've ever seen on this forum. Pad, you could take a Flip camera and even pixelize out everyone's face. It could be like a poor man's Chronicle...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 12, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Wow, wouldn't that be awesome! I'm willing to donate some dough to fly Pad out to see the Chief's friend, anyone else with me? It would be the most entertaining thing I've ever seen on this forum. Pad, you could take a Flip camera and even pixelize out everyone's face. It could be like a poor man's Chronicle...


LOL Im down, its up to my friend though... Might be a tad bit disrespectful asking "Hey man, I know we got nothing to prove but this over the top skeptic wants to come down here and see if your a phony, you ok with that?"... I feel like a dick asking him to do this, but I'll do it.


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## mindphuk (Jun 12, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> LOL Im down, its up to my friend though... Might be a tad bit disrespectful asking "Hey man, I know we got nothing to prove but this over the top skeptic wants to come down here and see if your a phony, you ok with that?"... I feel like a dick asking him to do this, but I'll do it.


Already mentioned in another thread he can be tested for the $1 million prize and remain anonymous.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 12, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> lol Would you like to contact him? I have no control over his actions or motives, hes just a kid who wants to live his life care free and doesnt care for being a science experiment. He'd rather not have the attention too I'd imagine, since he got annoyed at my relevant curious questions. Fuck, if I had a fat bank account I would send you down here just to see the look on your face when you find out for yourself lol wouldnt even need to get all techy with the experiment, he'd just talk to you... If you wanna contact him and question him then I can ask him if hes willing to talk to you, but I'd have to tell him what kinda person you are and that might put him off... Plus, its not like it changes anything if a scientist examines him or not lol.


Absolutely I would. And if he's your friend, I don't see why he wouldn't do it _for you_ if you asked him to. He will remain anonymous and earn that $1 million prize pool that's at stake. If he doesn't want the money, tell him you do or to donate it to a charity. To someone who actually has the abilities you claim he has, this really should be an absolute no brainer.


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## kpmarine (Jun 12, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> Already mentioned in another thread he can be tested for the $1 million prize and remain anonymous.


A million, and then some. I don't know how many of these are still valid, but I wish I was a possessor of supernatural abilities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal


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## afrawfraw (Jun 12, 2012)

Some things can never happen.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 12, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Absolutely I would. And if he's your friend, I don't see why he wouldn't do it _for you_ if you asked him to. He will remain anonymous and earn that $1 million prize pool that's at stake. If he doesn't want the money, tell him you do or to donate it to a charity. To someone who actually has the abilities you claim he has, this really should be an absolute no brainer.


I want him to take that challenge just as much as you do, could get a lot of things accomplished with that money. I dont know his motives though, perhaps theres some rule he has to follow that doesnt let him use his abilities to attain wealth, I do not know.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 12, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I want him to take that challenge just as much as you do, could get a lot of things accomplished with that money. I dont know his motives though, perhaps theres some rule he has to follow that doesnt let him use his abilities to attain wealth, I do not know.


Yeah, there's always 'some rule' they have to follow, or some reason they can't prove it to the public... Do you know what that 'rule' or reason is?






































Because they can't. They know they can't, and they know that by attempting to prove it, they'll be discovered to be a fraud. It happens to all of them, with no exceptions. From dowsing to thetan readers to psychics to fortune tellers, all of them. 

I anxiously await your response. What's the hold up on his reply anyway? Does your friend have a cell phone?


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## cannabineer (Jun 12, 2012)

does his friend NEED a cell phone, ~giggle~ cn


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 12, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Yeah, there's always 'some rule' they have to follow, or some reason they can't prove it to the public... Do you know what that 'rule' or reason is?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol I dont know if theres a rule man, I was just suggesting the possibility. Maybe its because you shouldnt need a supernatural act to be performed in order for you to believe in god because your dumbass should already know =p. I dont know if he has a cellphone, he moved to work in Edmonton so Im assuming he does now, I just messaged him on facebook.
Sooo if your skeptic buddies raise up some money and you come down here, and you see the truth for yourself, what will you do? How would that proof change your world view? Would you feel scared and helpless because science turned out to be a very tiny fraction of reality and you spent your life learning about something that doesnt even matter when it comes to the big picture? What would you continue to do knowing that a lot of things that you thought to be woowoo bullshit was actually the truth?


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## afrawfraw (Jun 12, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> lol I dont know if theres a rule man, I was just suggesting the possibility. Maybe its because you shouldnt need a supernatural act to be performed in order for you to believe in god because your dumbass should already know =p.


ZZZZZZZZZZZZ...huh, what? Surely you jest?


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## cannabineer (Jun 12, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> lol I dont know if theres a rule man, I was just suggesting the possibility. Maybe its because you shouldnt need a supernatural act to be performed in order for you to believe in god because your dumbass should already know =p. I dont know if he has a cellphone, he moved to work in Edmonton so Im assuming he does now, I just messaged him on facebook.
> Sooo if your skeptic buddies raise up some money and you come down here, and you see the truth for yourself, what will you do? How would that proof change your world view? Would you feel scared and helpless because science turned out to be a very tiny fraction of reality


 But science is already only a fragment of Reality. But it's the one fragment that bears a universally-readable proofmark.


> and you spent your life learning about something that doesnt even matter when it comes to the big picture?


HUGE jump from there to here. Not supported.


> What would you continue to do knowing that a lot of things that you thought to be woowoo bullshit was actually the truth?


Let's say your friend's abilities test real. That would mean that the pure-materialist worldview is incomplete. It does NOT legitimize spiritism and superstition wholesale. It is *not *an all-or-nowt proposition. cn


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## afrawfraw (Jun 12, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Yeah, there's always 'some rule' they have to follow, or some reason they can't prove it to the public... Do you know what that 'rule' or reason is?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What if his friend knows the color of your underwear right now? Are you scared? Doesn't it bother you, as a possibility? Why would you antagonize such a powerful being, Pad? If the supernatural mystic friend touches you, be sure to use protection.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 12, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> But science is already only a fragment of Reality. But it's the one fragment that bears a universally-readable proofmark.HUGE jump from there to here. Not supported.
> Let's say your friend's abilities test real. That would mean that the pure-materialist worldview is incomplete. It does NOT legitimize spiritism and superstition wholesale. It is *not *an all-or-nowt proposition. cn


There is one thing he can do, maybe more than one, that does "legitimize spiritism and superstition wholesale"... BUT Im sure you'll find a way to down play and discredit what really is going on... But I guess I wouldnt blame you for resisting the truth so passionately, you spent your whole life supporting something thats opposite from the truth.


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## afrawfraw (Jun 12, 2012)

[youtube]l64PffBtGGw[/youtube]

Perspective. Useless if you trust it.


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## afrawfraw (Jun 12, 2012)

God has sent a new profit. His name is Chris Angel. I'm sorry, I'll stop now.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 12, 2012)

afrawfraw said:


> God has sent a new profit. His name is Chris Angel. I'm sorry, I'll stop now.


Prophet*...


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 12, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> lol I dont know if theres a rule man, I was just suggesting the possibility. Maybe its because you shouldnt need a supernatural act to be performed in order for you to believe in god because your dumbass should already know =p. I dont know if he has a cellphone, he moved to work in Edmonton so Im assuming he does now, I just messaged him on facebook.
> Sooo if your skeptic buddies raise up some money and you come down here, and you see the truth for yourself, what will you do? How would that proof change your world view? Would you feel scared and helpless because science turned out to be a very tiny fraction of reality and you spent your life learning about something that doesnt even matter when it comes to the big picture? What would you continue to do knowing that a lot of things that you thought to be woowoo bullshit was actually the truth?



What is the value in believing in something that isn't proven to be real? How many times do I need to ask you that question before you attempt to answer it?

I thought you didn't have any beliefs, but if you're saying I'm a dumbass for not believing God exists, that implies you believe in God (unless you're a dumbass, too). 

Ask him if he'll come onto RIU and do an IAMA for us, you or me can create a profile for him and all he has to do is make an initial post, all of us will chime in with questions, and he comes back and responds. 

Where would I be coming to? I don't know where you live. 

Before I answer any of the other questions, I'd need you to be specific. What are you claiming are his abilities, exactly? I remember your story about how you were walking together and he read your mind, so how does that work? Can he choose to read anyone's mind, like professor X in _X-Men_, or does it only work during certain times, with certain people, what? 

Science IS only a fraction of reality. It's still in its infancy at just over 400 years old. Now consider this, look at what science has accomplished in that short time, we went from grass huts to the Burj Khalifa, from Kitty Hawk to the Sea of Tranquility in 66 years, organized religion has been around for *thousands of years*&#8203;. What has it accomplished?


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## afrawfraw (Jun 12, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Prophet*...


It was intentional. Tee hee.


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## cannabineer (Jun 12, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> There is one thing he can do, maybe more than one, that does "legitimize spiritism and superstition wholesale"... BUT Im sure you'll find a way to down play and discredit what really is going on... But I guess I wouldnt blame you for resisting the truth so passionately, you spent your whole life supporting something thats opposite from the truth.


What would that be? cn


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## afrawfraw (Jun 12, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> What would that be? cn


Do not try to imagine a man that performs miracles. Rather, try to understand that there is no man. And something about a spoon.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 12, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What is the value in believing in something that isn't proven to be real? How many times do I need to ask you that question before you attempt to answer it?
> 
> I thought you didn't have any beliefs, but if you're saying I'm a dumbass for not believing God exists, that implies you believe in God (unless you're a dumbass, too).
> 
> ...


Yeah I guess "believe" is a bad word to use, replace that with "know" =). And it has been proven, its been proven to me and his close friends many times, are you suggesting that scientist needs to experience it in order for it to be real? pfft, please...

He said any thought that has to do with him he is able to read, he has no control over it, they just pop in his head. I dont think hes able to block those thoughts either, because I'd be very nervous around him at first and think "GTFO of my head man" and you could clearly see his discomfort through his body language and facial expressions. When hes in a meditative state he can completely enter your mind and body, thats the experience I described that you said was similar to religious testimonies. He told me with intense and long periods of concentration he can control his element (fire) he said he only did that a couple times though. And the things we cant test and you probably dont even care for testing is that he can see anyones aura and can see chakra points in certain individuals, I can see my aura. And he says he can see the energy/silhouette of spirits... Im sure hes capable of more than that but thats just what we talked about.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 12, 2012)

And hes declined =( oh well, its not like asking him questions would of proved anything anyways. Im talking about you meeting him right now though, he might be willing to do that... You'd be going to Edmonton Alberta Canada, or here in Prince George BC if hes visiting. Would be the best educational field trip of your life lol.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 12, 2012)

Why did he decline?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 12, 2012)

Im guessing he thought it was a waste of time and doesnt like being asked questions by the aggressive observers of the material world ... He really does have nothing to prove, he never brags about who he is or what he can do, the guy just wants to have fun and be happy. I admit, it would be a step forward for humanity if this information was proven to be true by people the public find credible but he doesnt want to go out of his way to do that. He just wants to smoke weed, be happy, party, and practice spirituality.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 12, 2012)

Funny, he sounds exactly like every other person with some inhuman ability...


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## afrawfraw (Jun 13, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Im guessing he thought it was a waste of time and doesnt like being asked questions by the aggressive observers of the material world ... He really does have nothing to prove, he never brags about who he is or what he can do, the guy just wants to have fun and be happy. I admit, it would be a step forward for humanity if this information was proven to be true by people the public find credible but he doesnt want to go out of his way to do that. He just wants to smoke weed, be happy, party, and practice spirituality.


1 Million Dollars = 6,667 ounces of weed.
1 Million Dollars = 10 Outrageous parties. Like Charlie Sheen outrageous!
1 Million Dollars = Enough "Spirituality" materials to "heal" Canada.

As for happiness, well, that has nothing to do with money.

Is he aware of this? That money can be turned into anything he needs? That he could help MILLIONS of starving humans? Tell him. He will be so overjoyed to be able to help so many humans, he'll fly to Pad's Pad tonight!


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## afrawfraw (Jun 13, 2012)

You guys could even meet at 114 Street 89 Avenue Northwest, Edmonton, AB T6G 2E1, Canada


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## kpmarine (Jun 13, 2012)

afrawfraw said:


> 1 Million Dollars = 6,667 ounces of weed.
> 1 Million Dollars = 10 Outrageous parties. Like Charlie Sheen outrageous!
> 1 Million Dollars = Enough "Spirituality" materials to "heal" Canada.
> 
> ...


It's actually closer to $2million, if he collects the other prizes offered by other folks too. Shit, the guy could invest that, and retire young.


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## Heisenberg (Jun 13, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Im guessing he thought it was a waste of time and doesnt like being asked questions by the aggressive observers of the material world ... He really does have nothing to prove, he never brags about who he is or what he can do, the guy just wants to have fun and be happy. I admit, it would be a step forward for humanity if this information was proven to be true by people the public find credible but he doesnt want to go out of his way to do that. He just wants to smoke weed, be happy, party, and practice spirituality.


Consider for 10 seconds all the profound suffering this information could remedy, and the advancements that would follow to help not just man but all living creatures. It would be a strange form of spirituality that encouraged such callous selfishness.

Not that I do not respect the decision, but the excuse is BS.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm not too concerned about getting this knowledge out there ASAP. I do realize the benefits but Im confident that this knowledge will be made public soon enough without his help.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 13, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I'm not too concerned about getting this knowledge out there ASAP. I do realize the benefits but Im confident that this knowledge will be made public soon enough without his help.


And what would lead you to believe that?


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## Zaehet Strife (Jun 13, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I'm not too concerned about getting this knowledge out there ASAP. I do realize the benefits but Im confident that this knowledge will be made public soon enough without his help.


I don't believe you, and this is another BS excuse. 

"Don't worry guys soon everyone will have telekinetic powers! You'll see! You'll see..."


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## mindphuk (Jun 13, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> Still dancing and spinning I see. Revisionist history and obvious inability to grasp what I was trying to explain.
> I did not watch the video and focus on one part. If you recall, YOU made a claim in a post and I asked you to support it and you used the video as your support. When I did the same calculations, the exact same math, on the exact same pyramid (not an incomplete one) that the anonymous pyramid 'expert' performed, I got a value that was different from the speed of light by MAGNITUDES. Basically, they lied to you in the video and the only retort you had was that I should watch the whole thing. When I asked you why it was so important to watch the whole thing after I caught them in sheer dishonesty, you began to talk about all of the other parallels and connections to other places on earth. I told you I would be willing to discuss those other things once you acknowledged the fact that they were lying about the speed of light claim or show me where my math was wrong. I asked you that if they were dishonest in one part, why would I expect the rest of he video to be truthful? You dodged and danced splendidly while ignoring every point I made up until this day where you misrepresent what I found.
> 
> The lesson I got from our exchange is that you are not interested in truth and you are disingenuous in your dialogue with skeptics like me.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 13, 2012)

xD MP wants some attention... And Im not making excuses, I want you to come down here, it would be awesome seeing your reaction lol


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## afrawfraw (Jun 13, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I don't believe you, and this is another BS excuse.
> 
> "Don't worry guys soon everyone will have telekinetic powers! You'll see! You'll see..."


Calm down, Z. Chief's playing make believe. Like Mr. Rogers.


Sorry Chief, but it's been my experience that all Magic is for prophet  

I'll open your mind to the hidden truths of the universe..For $40.00! Cash, Master Card, Visa, American Express.


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## afrawfraw (Jun 13, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> xD MP wants some attention... And Im not making excuses, I want you to come down here, it would be awesome seeing your reaction lol


There is NOTHING he could do to get a rise out of me. My reaction would be at the conclusion of the investigation.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 13, 2012)

xD 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFzXaFbxDcM


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## afrawfraw (Jun 13, 2012)

Praise the Jebus!


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## cannabineer (Jun 13, 2012)

afrawfraw said:


> Praise the Jebus!


I'm waiting breathlessly for the Servin' of the Mound. cn


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 13, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> And Im not making excuses, I want you to come down here, it would be awesome seeing your reaction lol


I live in California, if I visited Canada, I'd be going UP there, I have a friend that says the same thing, he lives in northern CA I live in southern, he says "I'm gonna come up there to hang out"

And what would that do, I'd get there, he'd say he doesn't feel like doing the trick or whatever.. 

Now you have to ask yourself the big question..

Why? Why would he be so apprehensive about showing somebody else his ability? Doesn't that strike you as a little bit odd? If you had the same ability, essentially, telekinesis, wouldn't you want to show that? The first thing I would do is go to my closest state University and prove I could do it, second place would be to James Randi's house to collect my check. After that, you'd be an international sensation, and probably live out the rest of your days veeeeeery comfortably around a lot of beautiful women whose mind's you could read. 

...Let me think about that one for a second....


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 13, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I live in California, if I visited Canada, I'd be going UP there, I have a friend that says the same thing, he lives in northern CA I live in southern, he says "I'm gonna come up there to hang out"
> 
> And what would that do, I'd get there, he'd say he doesn't feel like doing the trick or whatever..
> 
> ...


You act like Im the only one he performed these things in front of. ALL of his close friends knows what he can do, they all experienced it, his mind reading at least.

Those are egotistic motives, sure they'll help some people but your description just seems like self centered recognition and greed, not something Buddha would do =p. 

Im sure he'll read your mind, he doesnt perform his abilities on demand for those that are skeptical, that only happend once with his reluctant friend that now knows of what he can do. Even when I was saying "BULLSHIT!" to him at first, he felt no need to prove me wrong for cheap showmanship. It was only after I started to respect him more that he first shown me. I thought he was crazy for the longest time but still acknowledged he had a good amount of knowledge on spirituality, I didnt even consider myself spiritual at the time, what he said just made sense. Then he read my mind and everyone else's mind and did a few other things that convinced me a lot of what he talks about must be the truth.

(edit) Since you came from another country for the soul reason to see what he can do, Im sure he'll do his "trick"... He might have to like ya first though, he can sense disrespect.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 13, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You act like Im the only one he performed these things in front of. ALL of his close friends knows what he can do, they all experienced it, his mind reading at least.
> 
> Those are egotistic motives, sure they'll help some people but your description just seems like self centered recognition and greed, not something Buddha would do =p.
> 
> ...



Could you get one of your mutual friends to corroborate the story if the original friend is unwilling? 

OK, _egotistical_, then what about donating the winning prize money to cancer research or WWF? Isn't that completely selfless? Exactly what Buddha or Jesus would praise? Giving to the less fortunate? 


What would it take to convince you that he _doesn't_ have this ability?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 13, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Could you get one of your mutual friends to corroborate the story if the original friend is unwilling?
> 
> OK, _egotistical_, then what about donating the winning prize money to cancer research or WWF? Isn't that completely selfless? Exactly what Buddha or Jesus would praise? Giving to the less fortunate?
> 
> ...


Probably not man, his friends seem like they are scared of it because they cant comprehend it. They are the "IDGAF, lets party!" kinda kids, so I doubt they'll take time explaining a detailed story to someone they dont know on the internet. 

Fuck the pharmaceutical companies and their cancer scam, they want people sick. Theres already cheap treatments out there that work but they just wanna patent a new expensive pill so they can make money off it. 

Him not willing to take a million dollar challenge and show his abilities to scientists to confirm his abilities is supposed to convince me that he doesnt have these abilities? The only thing that would convince me that hes a phony is if I went back in time when no one experienced what he can do and thought he was crazy.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 13, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Probably not man, his friends seem like they are scared of it because they cant comprehend it. They are the "IDGAF, lets party!" kinda kids, so I doubt they'll take time explaining a detailed story to someone they dont know on the internet.
> 
> Fuck the pharmaceutical companies and their cancer scam, they want people sick. Theres already cheap treatments out there that work but they just wanna patent a new expensive pill so they can make money off it.
> 
> Him not willing to take a million dollar challenge and show his abilities to scientists to confirm his abilities is supposed to convince me that he doesnt have these abilities? The only thing that would convince me that hes a phony is if I went back in time when no one experienced what he can do and thought he was crazy.


What if he was willing and I set up an experiment to see if his abilities could be measured. What I'm saying is if nothing was measured, or he said he couldn't do it for whatever reason, would that convince you that he doesn't have the ability? If not, what would? "going back in time" is irrational given the state of our technology, you might as well be saying "nothing can convince me" and if that's the case, what would be the point of any kind of experiment? You're going to believe what you want to believer regardless of the results.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 13, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What if he was willing and I set up an experiment to see if his abilities could be measured. What I'm saying is if nothing was measured, or he said he couldn't do it for whatever reason, would that convince you that he doesn't have the ability? If not, what would? "going back in time" is irrational given the state of our technology, you might as well be saying "nothing can convince me" and if that's the case, what would be the point of any kind of experiment? You're going to believe what you want to believer regardless of the results.


Measure it? what do you mean? The experiment Im thinking about would last under a minute, you'd have a conversation and then he'd read your mind multiple times. So after he read your mind multiple times and after you agree that he stated what you were thinking of multiple times, you'd still need a scientific device to measure what hes doing for you to believe whats going on? ... And yes, thank you for stating the obvious with the going back in time reference lol.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 13, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Measure it? what do you mean? The experiment Im thinking about would last under a minute, you'd have a conversation and then he'd read your mind multiple times. So after he read your mind multiple times and after you agree that he stated what you were thinking of multiple times, you'd still need a scientific device to measure what hes doing for you to believe whats going on? ... And yes, thank you for stating the obvious with the going back in time reference lol.


If I set up a controlled experiment where I'm holding a deck of 52 cards, if he guessed which card I was looking at and transmitting via telepathy, if he did that correctly 52 times, I would conclude you're right and he actually has the ability, 30-40 cards I'd say there's a really strong possibility there is something else there other than 'luck' or 'coincidence', anything less than 15-20 I'd say is luck. Statistics would say at random, out of 52 cards, a person should guess < 1 correctly, given that there are a total of 13 possibilities for each card, and 52 possible attempts, but making that kind of claim I would hold a higher standard of proof. Keep in mind, you're not saying "he can do it half the time" or "he can do it a quarter of the time", because if that was the case, it wouldn't be anything special.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 13, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> If I set up a controlled experiment where I'm holding a deck of 52 cards, if he guessed which card I was looking at and transmitting via telepathy, if he did that correctly 52 times, I would conclude you're right and he actually has the ability, 30-40 cards I'd say there's a really strong possibility there is something else there other than 'luck' or 'coincidence', anything less than 15-20 I'd say is luck. Statistics would say at random, out of 52 cards, a person should guess < 1 correctly, given that there are a total of 13 possibilities for each card, and 52 possible attempts, but making that kind of claim I would hold a higher standard of proof. Keep in mind, you're not saying "he can do it half the time" or "he can do it a quarter of the time", because if that was the case, it wouldn't be anything special.


Why make him jump through hoops? Why not just stay silent and think about specific questions that require specific answers? It save a lot of time.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 13, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Why make him jump through hoops? Why not just stay silent and think about specific questions that require specific answers? It save a lot of time.


There would be a series of tests.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jun 13, 2012)

Padawan is right, if your friend cannot complete these series of tests, he cannot be officially telekinetic or psychic.


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## eye exaggerate (Jun 13, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> There would be a series of tests.


...wouldn't observing it change the outcome?


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## cannabineer (Jun 13, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...wouldn't observing it change the outcome?


Uncertain.  cn


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## tyler.durden (Jun 13, 2012)

I believe Chief thinks his friend is telepathic (the ability to read minds and transfer information without apparent physical signals), not telekinetic (the ability to move objects using only the power of his mind), which would be WAY cooler. The fact that I felt the need to chime in with this bullshit distinction shows you how bored I must be... 

Trimming many plants and smoking scissor hash often


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## cannabineer (Jun 13, 2012)

Telekinetic trimming would be a boon to all mankind. I do despair of aura hash however. cn


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## eye exaggerate (Jun 13, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> I believe Chief thinks his friend is telepathic (the ability to read minds and transfer information without apparent physical signals), not telekinetic (the ability to move objects using only the power of his mind), which would be WAY cooler. The fact that I felt the need to chime in with this bullshit distinction shows you how bored I must be...
> 
> *Trimming many plants and smoking scissor hash often*



*hates you but only because of that ^ bolded bit* When you get to the part where you're trimming your scissors often and smoking many hash plants  , remember me - and _the wait_.


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## tyler.durden (Jun 13, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Telekinetic trimming would be a boon to all mankind. I do despair of aura hash however. cn


Believe me, Neer, I tried that. The plants won't move when I'm staring at them, but when I trim long enough in one sitting I swear I see them moving out of the corner of my eye. As long as they don't speak to me I think I'll be okay, I've already received accusing looks from them...


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## tyler.durden (Jun 13, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> *hates you but only because of that ^ bolded bit* When you get to the part where you're trimming your scissors often and smoking many hash plants  , remember me - and _the wait_.


I know how you feel. I have a perpetual SOG going, so now I'm harvesting every 2-3 weeks. Trimming wasn't so bad every 8-10 weeks, but this is getting old quickly. Beats working in a cubicle


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## cannabineer (Jun 13, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Believe me, Neer, I tried that. The plants won't move when I'm staring at them, but when I trim long enough in one sitting I swear I see them moving out of the corner of my eye. As long as they don't speak to me I think I'll be okay, I've already received accusing looks from them...


For a bunch a stone cold materialists, we sure seem to propitiate the powers when dealing with our grows. Maybe there are no atheists in Secret Jardins.  I do call mine the Bud Burqa. cn


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 13, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> I know how you feel. I have a perpetual SOG going, so now I'm harvesting every 2-3 weeks. Trimming wasn't so bad every 8-10 weeks, but this is getting old quickly. Beats working in a cubicle



Awesome man, I saw a perpetual grow on here, I think it's a thread called 'harvest 2 lbs every 3 weeks', or something. Awesome shit, weed year round! If I was able to do an indoor grow, you bet your ass I'd do something scientifically awesomely efficient like that! Got a link to your grow?

I have ONE SEED I think I'm going to plant this week just to see what happens, I figure I'll have all of July and August till it starts to flower, get about 3'-4' tall, perfect for my current circumstances, get a decent amount of weed of 'er if she turns out female  Dank genetics too and I have some awesome nutes, all I need is a bag of decent soil. I cleaned out the side of my house today, a bunch of wood pallets n shit I was going to use for a few projects I never got around to, and ended up killing 3 goddamn black widows! Those things are scary, alien as fuck little bastards, everything about them! Talk about a scary looking spider! Tarantulas are scary looking too, but I think spiders like black widows are waaaaaay different than most mammals, they resemble something you'd find in outerspace it seems like! lol Same shit with some undersea creatures!


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## tyler.durden (Jun 13, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> For a bunch a stone cold materialists, we sure seem to propitiate the powers when dealing with our grows. Maybe there are no atheists in Secret Jardins.  I do call mine the Bud Burqa. cn


You're right! I refer to my room as Narnia...


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## cannabineer (Jun 13, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> You're right! I refer to my room as Narnia...


Aye! Through the Weedrobe! cn


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## tyler.durden (Jun 13, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Awesome man, I saw a perpetual grow on here, I think it's a thread called 'harvest 2 lbs every 3 weeks', or something. Awesome shit, weed year round! If I was able to do an indoor grow, you bet your ass I'd do something scientifically awesomely efficient like that! Got a link to your grow?
> 
> I have ONE SEED I think I'm going to plant this week just to see what happens, I figure I'll have all of July and August till it starts to flower, get about 3'-4' tall, perfect for my current circumstances, get a decent amount of weed of 'er if she turns out female  Dank genetics too and I have some awesome nutes, all I need is a bag of decent soil. I cleaned out the side of my house today, a bunch of wood pallets n shit I was going to use for a few projects I never got around to, and ended up killing 3 goddamn black widows! Those things are scary, alien as fuck little bastards, everything about them! Talk about a scary looking spider! Tarantulas are scary looking too, but I think spiders like black widows are waaaaaay different than most mammals, they resemble something you'd find in outerspace it seems like! lol Same shit with some undersea creatures!


The threads I've studied the most of this forum is Mr. Fuct's 'Get a Harvest every two Weeks', and Stinkbud's 'Harvest a Pound Every Three Weeks!' I went with the F&D sog because it seemed more reliable and less maintenance, and sog maximizes yield in a given space. I have three 2x3 trays with two 600w hps, plus a Mother/Cloning tent (hung panda film on a 2x4 with a 6inch duct fan exhaust for ventilation) in the corner of the flower room that houses my 12 moms (250w hps over them) in the top section, and my 36 site aerocloner and some small plants in the lower section (80w of 6400k cfls over them). I am upgrading the room next week by adding another tray and replacing my 2 air-cooled reflectors with 2 Magnum XXXL reflectors housing new Digilux HPS bulbs! My local Hydro Shoppe is giving me an amazing deal for the package, so my yield should go up about 25%. I'm too much of a pussy to post pics on this forum, as I opened this account with an IP address that could be traced to me. I am thinking about getting an offshore VPN in the UK and posting pics here or to another forum. Any advice there?

Yeah Pad, get that seed sprouted and in the ground! I can't believe you have to deal with Black Widows! I would fucking freak out. I have a hard enough time with my White Widows  I was going to do my first guerrilla grow this year, but my time, money and effort had to go to the grow room. I'm always scouting for possible places in which to do my grow. Hep had a great spot picked out for a 2012 grow, but there was a problem with his seeds  If you're starting from seed now, maybe you can convince Hep to to the same. Let me know how the planting goes...

P.S. Have you seen Heis' thread on ocean oddities? It's got some really cool sea creature vids...


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## tyler.durden (Jun 13, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Aye! Through the Weedrobe! cn


........................


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## mindphuk (Jun 14, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> xD MP wants some attention...


No, I want you to answer the fucking questions that you have continually dodged and deflected, like you did just here and quit trying to spin the discussion as if I watched your stupid video and nitpicked on specific point, when in fact you brought up the supposed fact and I questioned it. You have not to this day been able to explain why you would continue to believe a claim made by your precious video when it was so thoroughly debunked, OR demonstrated why I was wrong and it is still not debunked. 

Just trying to get you to provide some straightforward responses without you bouncing back and forth between topics is a lesson in patience IMO. You never responded to my map links either that disprove your continuous line around the globe. You never responded to my points about psychic performers like Banachek, Bob Cassidy and Ian Rowland (among many others) that admit to no real abilities except to fool you into believing they are reading your mind. I have tried to have rational discussions with you but your blatant ad homs and dismissive attitude toward anyone that is skeptical of your claims is getting quite old and worn out. You act like you are still in high school with your arrogance and know-it-all behavior.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 14, 2012)

Whoah. I haven't checked on this page since pg 3. Chief..lol


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## abandonconflict (Jun 14, 2012)

I think Chief Walking Eagle is correct, that fractal geometry is the underlying pattern in everything. Science is yet to even consider it, but I acknowledge. I think that he is dead wrong for calling it proof of anything. It will prove something when scientists know how to use it. In fairness though, I think the same can be said of a few other theorems, including our beloved evolution. We have disproved a great many religions with it, but we have a long way to go before we can say we have it all figured out. Don't ridicule the guy for being fixated on geometry, Darwin (Christian) started by noticing a pattern too.


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## Heisenberg (Jun 14, 2012)

abandonconflict said:


> I think Chief Walking Eagle is correct, that fractal geometry is the underlying pattern in everything. Science is yet to even consider it, but I acknowledge. I think that he is dead wrong for calling it proof of anything. It will prove something when scientists know how to use it. In fairness though, I think the same can be said of a few other theorems, including our beloved evolution. We have disproved a great many religions with it, but we have a long way to go before we can say we have it all figured out. Don't ridicule the guy for being fixated on geometry, Darwin (Christian) started by noticing a pattern too.



I don't believe the problem is pattern recognition.



> You act like you are still in high school with your arrogance and know-it-all behavior.


The problem is conduct.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 14, 2012)

abandonconflict said:


> I think Chief Walking Eagle is correct, that fractal geometry is the underlying pattern in everything. Science is yet to even consider it, but I acknowledge. I think that he is dead wrong for calling it proof of anything. It will prove something when scientists know how to use it. In fairness though, I think the same can be said of a few other theorems, including our beloved evolution. We have disproved a great many religions with it, but we have a long way to go before we can say we have it all figured out. Don't ridicule the guy for being fixated on geometry, Darwin (Christian) started by noticing a pattern too.


Theres also new evidence suggesting that the center of our galaxy sends out evenly spaced waves of energy/radiation that causes evolution. I do have a link posted for that but Im sure you can find a much shorter one lol I dont think these self appointed masters of knowledge would wanna sit through it either.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jun 14, 2012)

Chief, why doesn't your friend think his "powers" are truly amazing? Why doesn't he try to make people become believers? Why doesn't he have his own TV show (hehe)?


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## eye exaggerate (Jun 14, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Chief, why doesn't your friend think his "powers" are truly amazing? Why doesn't he try to make people become believers? Why doesn't he have his own TV show (hehe)?


...my guess would be that some people love media attention, and others can do without it. Besides, I'd think that having 'powers' of any sort would be an extremely personal thing / monstrous responsibility. Few people can induce samadhi with their presence, I don't know that TV ever could no matter who's on the screen  People that are 'charged' in this way likely know what it takes to get there, and how easily the 'power' can shy away. It's conditional. First, a person has to cultivate the 'cause' to achieve the 'effect'.

samadhi (from wiki) - It has been described as a non-dualistic state of consciousness in which the consciousness of the experiencing subject becomes one with the experienced object, and in which the mind becomes still, one-pointed or concentrated while the person remains conscious.

^ that's when 'real' magic is experienced, I'm quite sure.

edit: a 'real' 'mystic' would have strangers say to them "I don't know what it is, but there's something about you..." (not necessarily sexual, but from that same idea) - a mystic would likely say "I don't have anything that you do not have". It's about helping people attain the fullest version of the self, not TV.


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## afrawfraw (Jun 14, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Probably not man, his friends seem like they are scared of it because they cant comprehend it. They are the "IDGAF, lets party!" kinda kids, so I doubt they'll take time explaining a detailed story to someone they dont know on the internet.
> 
> Fuck the pharmaceutical companies and their cancer scam, they want people sick. Theres already cheap treatments out there that work but they just wanna patent a new expensive pill so they can make money off it.
> 
> Him not willing to take a million dollar challenge and show his abilities to scientists to confirm his abilities is supposed to convince me that he doesnt have these abilities? The only thing that would convince me that hes a phony is if I went back in time when no one experienced what he can do and thought he was crazy.


The only reason why you don't worship Chris Angel, or others like him, is the fact that they admit before the performance that is illusion, not real. All your friend would have to do is show you his illuisions, and you would cease to believe he was magical.


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## afrawfraw (Jun 14, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> I don't believe the problem is pattern recognition.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is conduct.


Agreed. Patterns are important to humans because our brains are wired to notice them. That is how we shelf everything. In groups. This is not legitimate cause to believe that patterns are important, or relevant.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 14, 2012)

afrawfraw said:


> The only reason why you don't worship Chris Angel, or others like him, is the fact that they admit before the performance that is illusion, not real. All your friend would have to do is show you his illuisions, and you would cease to believe he was magical.


Yes, 100% true... If they were illusions, and they are not =).


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 14, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...my guess would be that some people love media attention, and others can do without it. Besides, I'd think that having 'powers' of any sort would be an extremely personal thing / monstrous responsibility. Few people can induce samadhi with their presence, I don't know that TV ever could no matter who's on the screen  People that are 'charged' in this way likely know what it takes to get there, and how easily the 'power' can shy away. It's conditional. First, a person has to cultivate the 'cause' to achieve the 'effect'.
> 
> samadhi (from wiki) - It has been described as a non-dualistic state of consciousness in which the consciousness of the experiencing subject becomes one with the experienced object, and in which the mind becomes still, one-pointed or concentrated while the person remains conscious.
> 
> ...


I wish I knew what his responsibility was, what his purpose is. He only told me "theres a few things I gotta do"... And he didnt achieve these abilities through practice, a life threatening event made him discover who he is, he could read minds ever since. He does practice and meditate to strengthen his abilities though... Believer or not, atheist or theist, if you touch him you feel a slight tingling in your heart.

That cause and effect explanation might be whats going on too, I dont know. Because when I thought he was crazy he felt no need to prove anything to me, but when I started to respect him then he showed me what he can do so I can start to learn for myself. Sadly, I have no amazing abilities yet lol most I can do is make other people feel their energy in their hands. I can see my aura too, its really trippy.


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## afrawfraw (Jun 14, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Yes, 100% true... If they were illusions, and they are not =).


How do you know this? Waaaaiiit for it....waaaaiiit for it....


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## eye exaggerate (Jun 14, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I wish I knew what his responsibility was, what his purpose is. He only told me "theres a few things I gotta do"... And he didnt achieve these abilities through practice, a life threatening event made him discover who he is, he could read minds ever since. He does practice and meditate to strengthen his abilities though... Believer or not, atheist or theist, if you touch him you feel a slight tingling in your heart.
> 
> That cause and effect explanation might be whats going on too, I dont know. Because when I thought he was crazy he felt no need to prove anything to me, but when I started to respect him then he showed me what he can do so I can start to learn for myself. Sadly, I have no amazing abilities yet lol most I can do is make other people feel their energy in their hands. I can see my aura too, its really trippy.


...Shamanic Illness. It's scary stuff.

The future shaman sometimes takes the risk of being mistaken for a "madman". . .but his "madness" fulfills a mystic function; it reveals certain aspects of reality to him that are inaccessible to other mortals, and it is only after having experienced and entered into these hidden dimensions of reality that the "madman" becomes a shaman. (Mircea Eliade. Myths, Dreams, and Mysteries. New York: Harper and Row, 1960. Page 80-81)


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## tyler.durden (Jun 14, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I wish I knew what his responsibility was, what his purpose is. He only told me "theres a few things I gotta do"... And he didnt achieve these abilities through practice, a life threatening event made him discover who he is, he could read minds ever since. He does practice and meditate to strengthen his abilities though... Believer or not, atheist or theist, if you touch him you feel a slight tingling in your heart.
> 
> That cause and effect explanation might be whats going on too, I dont know. Because when I thought he was crazy he felt no need to prove anything to me, but when I started to respect him then he showed me what he can do so I can start to learn for myself. _*Sadly, I have no amazing abilities yet*_ lol most I can do is make other people feel their energy in their hands. I can see my aura too, its really trippy.


That's not true, you have the ability to frustrate people to no end and to believe groundless claims. Don't sell yourself short...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 14, 2012)

afrawfraw said:


> How do you know this? Waaaaiiit for it....waaaaiiit for it....


How do you fake reading someones mind and answering their specific questions when both people are completely silent?


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 14, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...Shamanic Illness. It's scary stuff.
> 
> The future shaman sometimes takes the risk of being mistaken for a "madman". . .but his "madness" fulfills a mystic function; it reveals certain aspects of reality to him that are inaccessible to other mortals, and it is only after having experienced and entered into these hidden dimensions of reality that the "madman" becomes a shaman. (Mircea Eliade. Myths, Dreams, and Mysteries. New York: Harper and Row, 1960. Page 80-81)


That makes sense, its very easy to be mistaken for a madman when you say you have these abilities. Theres more people like my friend in this town, I havent talked about them because I only had these experiences with my friend. I met my spiritual friends "master" (not really his master, just what he calls him). And he was mistaken for a madman, perhaps on purpose.


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## afrawfraw (Jun 14, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> How do you fake reading someones mind and answering their specific questions when both people are completely silent?


Psychology, facebook, and google to name 3. "Your worried." No shit. "You have an investment opportunity." No shit. "Your sister is in Hawaii." No shit. Again, just have him name us. Certainly a simple question can pass among friends?

He APPEARED to read minds. Without empirical data, you don't know what the fuck is going on, do you? Instead, you go on how they appeared. Then he told you it was magic. You never questioned it. This is faith. Faith is useless to me. Love, peace, and chicken grease!


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## abandonconflict (Jun 14, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I wish I knew what his responsibility was, what his purpose is. He only told me "theres a few things I gotta do"... And he didnt achieve these abilities through practice, a life threatening event made him discover who he is, he could read minds ever since. He does practice and meditate to strengthen his abilities though... Believer or not, atheist or theist, if you touch him you feel a slight tingling in your heart.
> 
> That cause and effect explanation might be whats going on too, I dont know. Because when I thought he was crazy he felt no need to prove anything to me, but when I started to respect him then he showed me what he can do so I can start to learn for myself. Sadly, I have no amazing abilities yet lol most I can do is make other people feel their energy in their hands. I can see my aura too, its really trippy.


Your cerebral hemispheres must be in reverse. Does your mind _only_ perceive the abstract?


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## afrawfraw (Jun 14, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> How do you fake reading someones mind and answering their specific questions when both people are completely silent?


[youtube]UVGPfxL0COs[/youtube]


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 14, 2012)

abandonconflict said:


> Your cerebral hemispheres must be in reverse. Does your mind _only_ perceive the abstract?


Why do you say that? and I dont know really, never gave it any thought before, I'll have to get back to you on that one.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 14, 2012)

afrawfraw said:


> [youtube]UVGPfxL0COs[/youtube]


I dont think you know what Im talking about.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jun 14, 2012)

I think he knows exactly what you are talking about. i bet you're friend uses similar tricks, for example. Have your friend stand behind you and look over your shoulder, put a round pencil on the table in front of you, wave your hand in front of it as if you are using the force, but blow just softly enough for the pencil to move across the table.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 14, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I think he knows exactly what you are talking about. i bet you're friend uses similar tricks, for example. Have your friend stand behind you and look over your shoulder, put a round pencil on the table in front of you, wave your hand in front of it as if you are using the force, but blow just softly enough for the pencil to move across the table.


You dont seem to understand as well lol.


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## cannabineer (Jun 14, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> How do you fake reading someones mind and answering their specific questions when both people are completely silent?


If both are completely silent, ...what questions? cn


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 14, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> If both are completely silent, ...what questions? cn


Specific questions that I THINK about and he gives specific answers.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jun 14, 2012)

Ok, next time think of a multiplication... say, think about adding 117 and 203 to get 320. If you put that into your mind, and he says those 3 numbers in the same exact order, and you do this about 20 different times with different number combinations all adding up to a different sum... then yes, my skepticism would be satisfied and i would assume this person can read minds. But not fully, more tests would need to be done.

Instead... i think you may be asking yes or no questions towards your sly little friend, which can easily be answered with one word... yes, or no. Instead of 117 plus 203 equals 320, which would be much more difficult to guess than say... yes, or no.

_I think someday you will be able to reflect on the deluded behavior contrived from emotional and sentimental feelings stemming from inner wants and psychological desires. Once you can get past these feelings and think with a rational mind, you may realize that you have much more power over who you are as an individual, and gain the ability to observe and critique the way your own mind works and operates._


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## cannabineer (Jun 14, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Specific questions that I THINK about and he gives specific answers.


But you specified complete silence. (How did he answer?) cn


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## tyler.durden (Jun 14, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> But you specified complete silence. (How did he answer?) cn


With his ass...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 14, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> But you specified complete silence. (How did he answer?) cn


well I guess he wasnt silent, since he was the one giving the answers verbally, and me asking the questions mentally.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 14, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Ok, next time think of a multiplication... say, think about adding 117 and 203 to get 320. If you put that into your mind, and he says those 3 numbers in the same exact order, and you do this about 20 different times with different number combinations all adding up to a different sum... then yes, my skepticism would be satisfied and i would assume this person can read minds. But not fully, more tests would need to be done.
> 
> Instead... i think you may be asking yes or no questions towards your sly little friend, which can easily be answered with one word... yes, or no. Instead of 117 plus 203 equals 320, which would be much more difficult to guess than say... yes, or no.
> 
> _I think someday you will be able to reflect on the deluded behavior contrived from emotional and sentimental feelings stemming from inner wants and psychological desires. Once you can get past these feelings and think with a rational mind, you may realize that you have much more power over who you are as an individual, and gain the ability to observe and critique the way your own mind works and operates._


You think wrong my friend, every time I spoke to him with my mind I was asking questions that needed detailed answers. The ones that did require a yes or a no answer would be backed up with explanations relating to my question.


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## afrawfraw (Jun 15, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You think wrong my friend, every time I spoke to him with my mind I was asking questions that needed detailed answers. The ones that did require a yes or a no answer would be backed up with explanations relating to my question.


Sticking your head in the sand won't make us concede your point. Either provide evidence, or proclaim it a belief, not a fact. What's the age old internet egging? "Pictures, or it never happened."? I think that's it. In this case, some empirical evidence. Not, "I saw so there." Not firing at you, just explaining why people are snickering all around.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 15, 2012)

afrawfraw said:


> Sticking your head in the sand won't make us concede your point. Either provide evidence, or proclaim it a belief, not a fact. What's the age old internet egging? "Pictures, or it never happened."? I think that's it. In this case, some empirical evidence. Not, "I saw so there." Not firing at you, just explaining why people are snickering all around.


I dont need to provide evidence for peer review for it to be real, how silly (even though all his friends experienced the same thing). Plus, how would I go about getting this evidence? Video tape the act of mind reading? You'll scream "FAKE" at that in a second and say we were acting. I wouldnt make my friend jump through hoops for something that I already know is real anyways... Im afraid the only way to convince you guys is if you go on the most educational field trip of your life and see it for yourself, be prepared to have your proud atheistic views shattered though... That might be tough to let go of...


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## kpmarine (Jun 15, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I dont need to provide evidence for peer review for it to be real, how silly (even though all his friends experienced the same thing). Plus, how would I go about getting this evidence? Video tape the act of mind reading? You'll scream "FAKE" at that in a second and say we were acting. I wouldnt make my friend jump through hoops for something that I already know is real anyways... Im afraid the only way to convince you guys is if you go on the most educational field trip of your life and see it for yourself, be prepared to have your proud atheistic views shattered though... That might be tough to let go of...


I thought by now you'd have realized that even if your friend proves he could read minds, that it would not effect my feelings about god at all. Psychics, maybe; god, not at all.


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## Heisenberg (Jun 16, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I dont need to provide evidence for peer review for it to be real, how silly (even though all his friends experienced the same thing). Plus, how would I go about getting this evidence? Video tape the act of mind reading? You'll scream "FAKE" at that in a second and say we were acting. I wouldnt make my friend jump through hoops for something that I already know is real anyways... Im afraid the only way to convince you guys is if you go on the most educational field trip of your life and see it for yourself, *be prepared to have your proud atheistic views shattered though*... That might be tough to let go of...


I am not sure how someone being psychic would effect my rejection of theism. I am also not sure how someone who resists basic education, like the difference between atheist and skeptic, would be qualified to authenticate anything, especially psychic powers. You have shown that you are too busy tripping over your own prejudicial misunderstandings to properly comprehend reality, falling for a cold reading fits right into your profile.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 16, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> I am not sure how someone being psychic would effect my rejection of theism. I am also not sure how someone who resists basic education, like the difference between atheist and skeptic, would be qualified to authenticate anything, especially psychic powers. You have shown that you are too busy tripping over your own prejudicial misunderstandings to properly comprehend reality, falling for a cold reading fits right into your profile.


Its been a while since the most robotic of the skeptics responded to me =D


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## afrawfraw (Jun 16, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I dont need to provide evidence for peer review for it to be real, how silly (even though all his friends experienced the same thing). Plus, how would I go about getting this evidence? Video tape the act of mind reading? You'll scream "FAKE" at that in a second and say we were acting. I wouldnt make my friend jump through hoops for something that I already know is real anyways... Im afraid the only way to convince you guys is if you go on the most educational field trip of your life and see it for yourself, be prepared to have your proud atheistic views shattered though... That might be tough to let go of...


Heisenburg= ___________
Afrawfraw= ____________
Padawan= ____________
Kpmarine= ____________
Zaehet Strife= __________

Simply print this out, hand it to him, and have him fill in our names. How hard could this be? The reality is painfully obvious.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jun 16, 2012)

afrawfraw said:


> Heisenburg= ___________
> Afrawfraw= ____________
> Padawan= ____________
> Kpmarine= ____________
> ...



^AAAWWWWWW SHIT! nice one Fraw! Plus Rep for sheer brilliance.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 16, 2012)

afrawfraw said:


> Heisenburg= ___________
> Afrawfraw= ____________
> Padawan= ____________
> Kpmarine= ____________
> ...



Of course that would be too simple... Apparently it doesn't work like that. From what I understand, you must have some sort of _connection_ already established, CWE explained that by saying he was thinking about things, and began thinking 'what if he can hear me' because of the previous circumstances, and _that's_ what began the connection. He can't do it 'on command'. He doesn't want to prove it, or show anybody. 


So I guess that's that.. I'm also interested in seeing Chief's acknowledgment of if this _were actually true_ why it wouldn't mean a thing to anyone else's theistic beliefs, but that probably won't happen.. 

So I guess I'll just get high and finish the rest of this piece of bread and peanut butter..


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 16, 2012)

afrawfraw said:


> Heisenburg= ___________
> Afrawfraw= ____________
> Padawan= ____________
> Kpmarine= ____________
> ...


He doesnt even know you guys, he has absolutely nothing to relate to when looking at those names. And your acting like hes the master of the matrix and hes gunna use his master mind to navigate through time and space to look for people he knows absolutely nothing about lol Im sorry but it doesnt work like that, if it did then my friend would probably turn into some spiritual assassin and change the world. It doesnt work over vast distances either, if it did then me and him would be talking all the time about how oblivious and painfully wrong scientific skeptics are, because he'd know every time I thought about him. 
Im afraid your only arguments are "Your lying or your crazy*. Peer review of his abilities has already been done multiple times, trickery or illusion doesnt fit in at all with the detailed explanations I've provided. Theres nothing to be done through internet communication to convince you of anything, like I said, save up some money for the most educational field trip of your life, it be worth it.


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## Heisenberg (Jun 16, 2012)

[video=youtube;bBUc_kATGgg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBUc_kATGgg[/video]


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Jun 16, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> [video=youtube;bBUc_kATGgg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBUc_kATGgg[/video]


I'll take the piano =p I'd have to know the wife, so I dont trust her.


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## afrawfraw (Jun 16, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> He doesnt even know you guys, he has absolutely nothing to relate to when looking at those names. And your acting like hes the master of the matrix and hes gunna use his master mind to navigate through time and space to look for people he knows absolutely nothing about lol Im sorry but it doesnt work like that, if it did then my friend would probably turn into some spiritual assassin and change the world. It doesnt work over vast distances either, if it did then me and him would be talking all the time about how oblivious and painfully wrong scientific skeptics are, because he'd know every time I thought about him.
> Im afraid your only arguments are "Your lying or your crazy*. Peer review of his abilities has already been done multiple times, trickery or illusion doesnt fit in at all with the detailed explanations I've provided. Theres nothing to be done through internet communication to convince you of anything, like I said, save up some money for the most educational field trip of your life, it be worth it.


Who's peers?


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## mindphuk (Jun 16, 2012)

afrawfraw said:


> Who's peers?


Methinks he has a very mistaken idea what the term peer-review encompasses along with the entirety of the scientific method and critical thinking. 

it's so sad that people nowadays can actually graduate from high school with such a lack of understanding. They are supposed to learn this stuff in science classes or get a failing grade and try again.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 16, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> Methinks he has a very mistaken idea what the term peer-review encompasses along with the entirety of the scientific method and critical thinking.
> 
> it's so sad that people nowadays can actually graduate from high school with such a lack of understanding. They are supposed to learn this stuff in science classes or get a failing grade and try again.


I read a story from a teacher who got in trouble for failing a student that wasn't proficient enough to pass. They are actually punishing the teachers for stupid students being stupid and not making an effort to learn the information. That blew my mind, what kind of backwards ass principal or superintendent would approve that shit policy?! (probably one that didn't pass..)


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## cannabineer (Jun 16, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I read a story from a teacher who got in trouble for failing a student that wasn't proficient enough to pass. They are actually punishing the teachers for stupid students being stupid and not making an effort to learn the information. That blew my mind, what kind of backwards ass principal or superintendent would approve that shit policy?! (probably one that didn't pass..)


It's a logical consequence of the No Child's Behind horse poop. They get funding for passing kids. cn


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 16, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> It's a logical consequence of the No Child's Behind horse poop. They get funding for passing kids. cn


What is the thought process behind 'no child left behind'? 

I don't see the benefit of such a program, I'm going to go find a copy and read that retarded shit...


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 16, 2012)

670 pages, this ought to be good... 

"-improving the academic achievement of the disadvantaged

-preparing, training and recruiting high quality teachers and principals"

-so it's semantics? Improving the academic achievement of the disadvantaged by lowering the standards? What. The. Fuck? Absurd.

-preparing, training and recruiting high quality teachers? By punishing them for demanding effort and results? Who the fuck wrote this piece of shit up? 

...lets check...


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## Padawanbater2 (Jun 16, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> 670 pages, this ought to be good...
> 
> "-improving the academic achievement of the disadvantaged
> 
> ...









John Boehner

NCLB was his "proudest achievement" in two decades of public service







George Miller 

Introduced a bill that would expand the Federal Pell grants to $5,500 called the Student Aid and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 2009







Ted Kennedy

Pushed for the act, but argued the Bush admin didn't supply enough funds for it to be effective, Bush admin defended its spending levels given the context of the two wars going on..







Judd Gregg

This fuckin' guys career is littered with suspicious shit! Won $850K from a powerball ticket, became an international adviser for Goldman Sachs in 2011, huge conflict of interest issue with Pease Air Force Base, fuck this scumbag motherfucker, one look into his background reveals enough.


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## kpmarine (Jun 18, 2012)

mindphuk said:


> Methinks he has a very mistaken idea what the term peer-review encompasses along with the entirety of the scientific method and critical thinking.
> 
> it's so sad that people nowadays can actually graduate from high school with such a lack of understanding. They are supposed to learn this stuff in science classes or get a failing grade and try again.


Haha! You clearly don not realize how shitty our public school system is now. No academic challenge whatsoever. I slept through most every class I took, and retained enough to ace the tests. It's a joke, really.


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