# inbred depression



## Grubs (Oct 18, 2008)

How sensitive is marijuanna to inbred depression? I know it's a general question that is going to depend on the genetics of the plants involved, but in general. How difficult is it to make it to a f# that will breed true before it starts to self destruct?

My thought is to start 3 different sets (possibly hybrids - possibly stablized), and breed them for the best traits that express themselves, until they start either breeding true(-ish), or start showing too much inbred depression at which time the best out of the two sets are bred together for a hybrid vigor boost. 

Do you think that this a valid plan? My intent is not to replicate a particular breed from the hybrids, but to make sure there are some good genes in the woodpile for a new combination.


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## born2killspam (Oct 18, 2008)

You definately have the right idea, but it kind of sounds like you want to achieve a stabilized hybridization, then you turn around and kind of say you don't really care about the likely pheno expression of the result?..
Or do you mean you aren't aiming to copy the pheno expression of some commercial strain that has been developed via a similar breeding program?..
Anyway, you can combat depression without infusing a whole new lot of genetics that will really undo your achieved stability by back-breeding only part way to the original parent when you feel vigor is being hurt.. eg: Keep a couple F2's that can act as back-breeding partners when you're leary about crossing F6's back to the P1's


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## Grubs (Oct 18, 2008)

Thanks! All I meant was that I wasn't trying to find out about starting with a particular phenotype and replicate that exact strain. For example, if one starts with breeder seeds, the F2 phenotypes will vary, but there will be some good genes in there that can hopefully be selected for. I was thinking about marking and cloning each plant to start with so I could veg one and flower one to review. I like the idea of intercrossing different fs to preserve the genetics without losing too much of the selection already done. How many generations should seperate two plants of the same line to combat inbred depression?

Basically what I am thinking of is getting some good quality seeds, selecting - stabilizing a couple strains, and then crossing them together for a strain "taliored" for my enviroment - preferances. No offense meant to what's available, but wouldn't it be cool to have your stuff something that you could have at least some claim to?
I'm not talking about entering a contest or going commercial, just some bragging rights to the select few friends that you hang - smoke with. Made homemade beer one time for the same sort of reason.


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## superskunkxnl (Oct 20, 2008)

i make beer and spirits pretty much as u say to be yours im working on breeding projects with some special bagseeds but space is limited atm so only popin 20-30 beans at a time one day...


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## Grubs (Oct 20, 2008)

Rock on and good luck Superskunk!

We may not be like the big boys with thier huge harems, but each one of our ladies gets more love, more often.


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## born2killspam (Oct 21, 2008)

What are the traits of the bagseed you wish to stabilize? Its good to start drawing up a plan early.. The ratios of the phenotypes resulting from your first batch will yield info about the parent's genotypes, and whether [for any particular trait/allele] they are DD (homozygous dominent or true breeding), Dd (heterozygous), or dd (homozygous recessive and will only breed true within their own inbred population)..
Stabilize the traits that are important to you, and disregard the rest..


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## Tanuvan (Oct 21, 2008)

In all honesty preventing inbred depression by cubing as a home hobbyist will prove to be difficult. With only 3 sets of genetics in play and the fact that interest typically lies with the female plant, it will be difficult to select the strongest male plants to back breed with.

You would need a fairly large cross section of genetics to insure hybrid vigor. It is not always a guarantee that the offspring will recombine in a way that is superior to the parents with the relatively small pool of genes you are working with.

No harm in trying it out though!


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## Grubs (Oct 22, 2008)

Tanuvan,

I know that the selection is small, but I could luck out, and worst case I doubt I'll mangle them to the point they aren't smokable. 
What I am thinking is 
Set 1: Power Skunk
Set 2: Northern Lights x Big Bud
Set 3: this weird ass funky mutant looking thing I grew from a mystery seed that looks like hell but the leaves even in veg (well preflower) state give a pretty damn fair buzz. Cloned and crossed with a male from Set 1 and/or Set 2.

Idealy I think I'd start with an unrelated I and a S, but what's available is what's available.

Keeping each set seperate, breeding each to stabilize and for my desired traits until the end, toss them together and see what comes up.

Could wind up with crap, could wind up with something cool, but in any event, will give me a pet project to mess around with for a long time.

born2killspam,

The traits I want to select for are:
Performs in the enviroment well (imperical, measure how well it grows for me)
Reasonable yield (imperical)
Flavor-Stone (subjective, taste/effect trials)

Not trying to make an uber producing one hit wonder, just some nice mellow good tasting herb that will get you there. Well that, and I gotta see what the mutant freak does, might be damaged and terminal, might be something I'd like to have around.

And, yeah, I now know more about Mendel than I ever thought I would... Herb for education for the win!!

Everybody have thier own spin on things, personally I like 2 or 3 liter soda bottles for pots (they go deep, not wide), and vertical floros for flowering (light hits the length of the plant), so we know I'm not "serious". No offense to the "machine", but I think there is still room for the personal use "hobbiest".


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## DevilDogg3103 (Oct 22, 2008)

Grubs said:


> Rock on and good luck Superskunk!
> 
> We may not be like the big boys with thier huge harems, but each one of our ladies gets more love, more often.


*Nicely said man.*


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## Grubs (Mar 23, 2009)

Just an FYI a brief update.

Set 1 & 3, down to a token plant apiece. I was not impressed with the Power Skunk at all. Well, I would have been, but the BB x NL makes some damn nice plants, and I'm being picky.

Set 2: Keeping an eye on potency, but to tell the truth, wouldn't want it to hit much harder. It's right about a couple hits every couple hours, nice mix of head and body. If well cured, noticable body tingle-numb sort of sensation, esp if coughed.
Still a bit stretchy, about doubles in flowering. Not superfast to finish, but keeps adding mass at a nice rate for almost the entire flowering period.

Still have some P1s, and using them for the standard, if the offspring shows improvements in desired traits they stay, otherwise they go.


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## Grubs (Apr 17, 2009)

Ok, so an update if anyone cares:

The new set 1 is a group of Blue Mystic X Purple Lady hoping for flavor and maybe color

Set 2 is still NL x BB now 3rd gen backcrossed once. Has very low flavor, big buds, ok trics, fair to good pot, nice short & wide veg structure. Strain is (in my opinion) now better than the original NL x BB seeds I started with. Hoping depression holds off 3 or so more gen. If it doesn't, I'll introduce the better of set 1 or set 3.

Set 3 Very tastey California Orange. Hoping for strong flavor. I'd like to add in some ww or wr, but not sure if the taste would be hard to deal with, but would like a bump in pot.

Current plan is to someday either cross 1 and 2 and that with 3 or the best 2 out of three. I figure that's long enough away that I can figure out the exact details later.

My goal is to accentuate taste, pot, bud size, veg performance, maybe color, unless something shows a really cool trait I want to keep.

Anyone have any comments?


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## MEANGREEN69 (Apr 19, 2009)

nice thread im realy in to breeding too..i'll stay posted.good luck.MEANGREEN.


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## Grubs (May 3, 2009)

The Grubbypipe. I made it myself.


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## Grubs (May 3, 2009)

The draw hole goes all the way through the pipe for easy cleaning with a bamboo skewer. The cleanout hole can be covered like a carborater when smoking. The "snuffer" puts out an unfinished bowl. The stone filter allows for air to be channeled from the four holes to the pipe's center hole, and is quickly popped out for cleaning.


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## MEANGREEN69 (May 4, 2009)

what is your Blue Mystic X Purple Lady,a F1 hybred?..if so do u know there pedigree?..if u do u can find out which one is DOM/hetro/ress for color,with a lil reserch via the seed breeder/bank..that whould help u get that color faster and make ur life easyer...MEANGREEN


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## Grubs (May 4, 2009)

MEANGREEN69 said:


> what is your Blue Mystic X Purple Lady,a F1 hybred?..if so do u know there pedigree?..if u do u can find out which one is DOM/hetro/ress for color,with a lil reserch via the seed breeder/bank..that whould help u get that color faster and make ur life easyer...MEANGREEN


Right now the Blue Mystic and Purple Lady are in two different sets of seeds. I'll be doing the cross.


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## Roland (May 19, 2009)

Grubs said:


> Right now the Blue Mystic and Purple Lady are in two different sets of seeds. I'll be doing the cross.


Hahahaha u guys gonna make me read Mendel again ? that was sweet peas right ? or was that drosophilla eyes .. 

I'm lost and would have to draw a family tree to keep up ... Hahaha

Anyway ... i'm following your thread and hope u don't mind me tuning in .... I'm fascinated .... Good Luck .. and will be anxious to see what you come up with !

Nice Pipe Grubs .. is that Manzanita wood ? Burl ?

Thanks for starting the Journal/thread


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## Grubs (May 20, 2009)

Roland said:


> I'm lost and would have to draw a family tree to keep up ... Hahaha


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## Grubs (May 20, 2009)

Roland said:


> Nice Pipe Grubs .. is that Manzanita wood ? Burl ?


Soapstone, but I have a walnut tree with a huge burl that I have my eye on.


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## Roland (May 20, 2009)

Aaaaaahhhhhhh .. Thanx ! the family tree helps ! Soapstone ... Hahaha .. nice grain !! Walnut burl would be NICE !!


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## Grubs (May 20, 2009)

So as you can tell from the chart, I've changed my mind AGAIN. Well, I'm getting some blackberry, so I rearranged. 
The big bud X northern lights is doing well. I will likely change my mind a bunch of times before I am through.
I have a promising looking Blue Mystic male, but I am undecided on the California Orange Female. If a nice one doesn't show, I'm going to cross with the best Blue Mystic Female, and save some pollen for another try with a new group of the Orange.

Even if what I get at the end of all this, isn't the best thing ever, at least I'll have gotten several years of being lit, and a nice hobby to futz with.


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## born2killspam (May 20, 2009)

No offense, but I don't see a point to your chart..


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## bicycle racer (May 20, 2009)

its hard for the small scale grower as someone mentioned because of space for many plants and good male selection and also time back crossing takes a long time. so because of this i mostly make s-1's or fem crosses of established stabilized clone only strains equivalent to fem f-1's. stable uniform growth with hybrid vigor and no weakness through inbreeding.


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## Grubs (May 20, 2009)

The chart just shows which traits I am trying to stack.

You can gather a ton of seeds from a generation, and just grow them out in different groups. This helps with the small grow thing. 4 groups of 25 is the about the same as one group of 100.

I am in no rush. I have about a year into it so far, and best case I figure it will be a couple of more years just to get the genetics I want piled together to start to try to find that one magic one to try to start stabilizing. As long as I am careful not to drop the traits I am tracking along the way, eventually it should work. Real Bonzai take many years, that's the sort of mindset I have.

This kind of project isn't for everybody, and it isn't the best way to do it, however, given enough time and work, I still think it should work. 

If it were easy, everyone would do it.

Besides, like I have said before, I doubt I will screw it up to the point where the buds aren't smokable.


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## Grubs (May 20, 2009)

bicycle racer said:


> its hard for the small scale grower as someone mentioned because of space for many plants and good male selection and also time back crossing takes a long time. so because of this i mostly make s-1's or fem crosses of established stabilized clone only strains equivalent to fem f-1's. stable uniform growth with hybrid vigor and no weakness through inbreeding.


That's a valid plan too. I'm just one of those people that has to tinker.

I'm not sure what a "established stabilized clone only strains" is.
If it is established and stabilized, why would it be clone only?


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## bicycle racer (May 20, 2009)

if you have the patience great like you said 2 to 3 years but if you succeed in getting what you want then it is worth it. i plan at some point to get into the seed business i plan on specializing in simple f-1 hybrids of known stable strains and fem clone only socal s-1's and clone only crosses femf-1's. easy for me to produce predictable uniform plants this way. im growing some clone only fem hybrids right now and there doing well. they are pre 98 bubba kush crossed to bannana kush larry og kush blue dream and sfv og kush i also popped some regular f-1's of purple urkel crossed to white widow if i get a workable male im going to cross the urkel widows to the bubba crosses to get a four way cross that should behave as f-1's as the genetics of the four strains are all quite different. should make for potent plants with alot of fresh genes and vigor. this method removes any issue with inbreding. i may get into backcrossing later on but there are hundreds of strains and hybrids im going to produce in this manner which will take time there are many great clones not available in seed form yet.


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## bicycle racer (May 20, 2009)

tinkering is good thats how new ideas and discoveries come about especially in the un-regulated cannabis industry. most people are quick to say no you cant do that without actual experimentation because of something they read that may or may not be correct or apply to cannabis. creativity and abstract ideas are just as important as an analytical mind in finding new discoveries or methods in all aspects of botany imo.


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## born2killspam (May 20, 2009)

Thats good, its ALOT easier to lock in traits that resulted from a cross than it is to try to pull traits pure to one of the P1's and stabilize them..
And yea, if you can keep the P1's alive then you could batch the seeds.. Its almost relativistic in a way, time and space not being independant of each other and all..


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## Roland (May 20, 2009)

Right on Grubs .. I like the long term plan ! Breed the best to the best .. and I believe U will end up w/ a very nice strain .. Curious to see how it goes ..over the long run ! I agree .. u r gonna have some good smoke along the way


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## Grubs (May 20, 2009)

Thanks all, I really appreciate it.

Part of it is that I figure that with any luck, I'll have a little hobby garden for the next many, many years anyway, so why not? I'm in no rush, and I don't have to take any commercial interests into consideration, so I can try for what I want in a plant.


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## born2killspam (May 20, 2009)

And even if you fail at creating a true strain, you still get loads and loads of decent strainish seeds.. Its almost a shame how many will go to waste since the smart move would be to keep them to yourself rather than take a risk on selling them, or even giving them away..


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## Grubs (May 20, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Thats good, its ALOT easier to lock in traits that resulted from a cross than it is to try to pull traits pure to one of the P1's and stabilize them..
> And yea, if you can keep the P1's alive then you could batch the seeds.. Its almost relativistic in a way, time and space not being independant of each other and all..


Correct, 2 P1s will make a F1 hybrid, which will be very similar to each other. When you cross the F1s, you get more variation. If you pick the members of F2 that show the desired trait, then you know the genes are there, and can start working from there. If none of the F2 show the desired trait, you can recross the F1s until it does.


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## Grubs (May 20, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> And even if you fail at creating a true strain, you still get loads and loads of decent strainish seeds.. Its almost a shame how many will go to waste since the smart move would be to keep them to yourself rather than take a risk on selling them, or even giving them away..


Yeah, but I figure it will be a nice treat for me and those in my "circle". Besdies, it's way too early for me to worry about what to do with it after it is done. I'll believe it and figure out what to do with it after I have smoked a whole lot of it.


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## born2killspam (May 21, 2009)

Grubs said:


> Correct, 2 P1s will make a F1 hybrid, which will be very similar to each other. When you cross the F1s, you get more variation. If you pick the members of F2 that show the desired trait, then you know the genes are there, and can start working from there. If none of the F2 show the desired trait, you can recross the F1s until it does.


Two 'true breeding' P1's will create uniform F1's.. Skunk1xAfgani should give you very uniform F1's.. Flavor_of_weekXFlavor_of_last_week, not so much.. I'm notexactly familiar with your stock.. My growing experience is with Skunk1, NL5, a bit of WW, and some sativa strain my dads been making a few seeds with since the 60's/70's..


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## Grubs (May 21, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Two 'true breeding' P1's will create uniform F1's.. Skunk1xAfgani should give you very uniform F1's.. Flavor_of_weekXFlavor_of_last_week, not so much.. I'm notexactly familiar with your stock.. My growing experience is with Skunk1, NL5, a bit of WW, and some sativa strain my dads been making a few seeds with since the 60's/70's..


Yeah, that's what I meant, but he said it better. If the P1s aren't true for the trait, it's really a F??


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## MEANGREEN69 (May 22, 2009)

whats up grubs..NOT TRYING TO HIJACK, but thought i whould ask...does anyone know if pistols ( size&thickness) have anything to do with resin production??....i have noticed that my plants with many/thick pistols have less resin/THC then the ones that have few & thin pistols..also can one breed for both thick pistols & resin/THC production??? thanks...MEANGREEN..


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## bicycle racer (May 22, 2009)

you more or less overtime can breed for whatever trait you want look at domesticated dogs all were wolves but now you got pomeranians and great danes that are very different its just a matter of time knowledge and patience.


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## Grubs (May 23, 2009)

MEANGREEN69 said:


> whats up grubs..NOT TRYING TO HIJACK, but thought i whould ask...does anyone know if pistols ( size&thickness) have anything to do with resin production??....i have noticed that my plants with many/thick pistols have less resin/THC then the ones that have few & thin pistols..also can one breed for both thick pistols & resin/THC production??? thanks...MEANGREEN..


It's no hyjack, if someone knows the answer, I'd like to know too.


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## Roland (May 25, 2009)

bicycle racer said:


> you more or less overtime can breed for whatever trait you want look at domesticated dogs all were wolves but now you got pomeranians and great danes that are very different its just a matter of time knowledge and patience.


and ... MJ plants are a LOT simpler genetics than Great Danes


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## Grubs (May 27, 2009)

According to Marijuana Botany:

Dominate/Recessive

Tall Stem/Short Stem
Pinnate leaves/webbed leaves
Green cylax/Purple cylax
Large seed/small seed
Diffuse root system/taproot root system.


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## born2killspam (May 27, 2009)

Do you know if those observations were based on a line developed orimarily from a particular landrace??


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## Grubs (May 28, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Do you know if those observations were based on a line developed orimarily from a particular landrace??


Doesn't say, the book is 
*Marijuana Botany*

By Robert Connell Clarke


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## Grubs (Sep 17, 2009)

Just a quick update:

The Northern Lights/Big bud is a nice bushy critter with good sized buds. 

The Purple Lady/Blackberry have fewer branches, but beautiful (if green) buds. I'm thinking of forgetting about getting purple from them, and just go for quality green. The plants show some color, but nothing worthwhile. I assume they would purple well outdoors, but I don't grow outdoors.

The White Rhino/Blue Mystic is all over the place. No consistancy at all yet. Made some finger hash from one set that I swear to God, I took one hit from, and immediately forgot I was smoking it until I saw the lighter & pipe in my hand. That's right, within the length of time it took to finish exhaling I couldn't remember that I was smoking. Of course the next plant is total crap, so I keep planting and hunting for an offspring that shows that kind of promise.

and the last pair,

White Widow/California Orange bud. Too soon to tell, waiting to finish flowering.

Anyway, I'm still a long way away, but I feel I am making progress, and even if I'm not, I'm getting way, way fucked up stoned trying.


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## Grubs (Sep 17, 2009)

I just noticed, I've been posting on this thread for almost a year, and I'd been working on the project for a couple of years before that. So 3 years into it, and I'm still picking out - breeding the Grandparents of the plants I want to grow.


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## born2killspam (Sep 18, 2009)

+rep on caring about quality more than colour.. So fucking rare these days..


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## Grubs (Sep 19, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> +rep on caring about quality more than colour.. So fucking rare these days..


 LOL thanks. We aren't talking about just any strain here, we are talking about my only source for my stash too. Don't get me wrong, I think purple is pretty, and if I can get it to show, then I'll try to keep that trait, but I'm not willing to give up something else I care about more for it. I'll take potency, flavor, structure,and high over it every time. 

On the up side the Purple Lady/Blackberry has a nice growth pattern and some interesting flavor notes.


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## born2killspam (Sep 19, 2009)

As it should be..


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## bicycle racer (Sep 19, 2009)

why only one strain as your stash source? just wondering because that is an unfortunate situation as tolerance builds with any strains cannabinoid profile regardless of what some say. i remember years ago before i grew my own waiting for the dealer to re-up with new product because i would be flying threw 8ths because of tolerance build up. once i would switch high again. sorry off subject just wondering why only one strain.


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## Grubs (Sep 19, 2009)

bicycle racer said:


> why only one strain as your stash source? just wondering because that is an unfortunate situation as tolerance builds with any strains cannabinoid profile regardless of what some say. i remember years ago before i grew my own waiting for the dealer to re-up with new product because i would be flying threw 8ths because of tolerance build up. once i would switch high again. sorry off subject just wondering why only one strain.


Sorry if I wasn't clear. The eight strains above have been crossed into four groups of hybrids that I am going to combine into two groups of four ways that I am going to cross together to get the strain that I am going to try to refine and claim as my own. 

However the going is really slow, because I'm being really picky about which plants get to pass on genes. For example, I crossed the best white widow with the best california orange. The offspring should have an advantage due to hybrid vigor in addition to the possibility of stacking benificial traits. So if none of the offspring shows improvement over the parents, I keep growing out members of that generation until I find one or two that does. Obviously this only applies as far as the strains are seperate enough for hybrid vigor, but at least some improvement is still expected of them to be allowed to continue.

That's why even though the NLxBB is starting on it's 4th gen, the WRxBM is still on it's 2nd gen, the PLxBB on it's 2nd, and the WWxCOB is only on it's 1st. The NLxBB keeps producing offspring that show improvements over the parents.


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## Grubs (Sep 20, 2009)

Anyway, so right now my stash is a bunch of labeled samples for testing, but as time goes on the narrower my range is going to be. I'll keep an eye out for a building resistance though, I'd hate to start misjudging due to it.

Right now what I am most concerned with is getting the good genetics seeds in the keep and grow pile, and the rest in the bucket marked with a "?" (although I just know there is some killer stuff in that bucket, which is why I can't bring myself to throw it out even though I don't plan on sprouting them).


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## bicycle racer (Sep 20, 2009)

cool i like you am working on similar things it takes years. im also working on outcrossing and back crossing for a number of generations to produce more or less stable seeds of formally clone only strains. there are many great strains not found in seed besides in s-1 form. some people hate fems so im working on the backcrosing method of getting good representations of these strains in male/female seed format. a simple seed project thats finishing now are some great 4 way med strain crosses that will surely be f-1s and have lots of vigor. the two four ways are pre 98 bubba kush/larry og kush*white widow/purple urkel and banana kush/pre 98 bubba kush* white widow/purple urkel both should have something to offer. when i make f2s of these i will have many phenos to play with. so many projects and strains to work with i just wish i had more room and a time machine lol.


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## bicycle racer (Sep 20, 2009)

yeah i have so many seeds of various strains hybrids and "?" that i will never get around to but i like knowing i have them for a rainy day and peace of mind. besides seeds are easy to store and hide clones not so much.


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## born2killspam (Sep 20, 2009)

Have you played around with storing clones in the fridge?? I've had success in zip-locks, and water.. I snipped and gobbed the end then stored them in a ALMOST freezing bar fridge.. I got some to root as much as 3 months later, and never attempted a longer trial.. And fuck were those ready to grow!!
Its something I wish I remembered more clearly, but I have a rule about records and illegal activity.. I think you'd be the perfect candidate to explore this experimentally..


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## bicycle racer (Sep 20, 2009)

yes i have certainly heard of storing clones that way it seems everyone who i have spoken with who has done that has had them do fine for a few months. i wonder what the max time they would survive that way would be. obviously the cold slows metabolism to a crawl but there in the dark so at some point they must die i would think. it would be interesting to see what the maximum number of days a clone can survive in those conditions.


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## Grubs (Sep 20, 2009)

Way cool, I haven't heard much about it, and I haven't tried that, but it should like something to look into.


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## Grubs (Sep 20, 2009)

I wanted to semi-confirm something someone here said (might have been FDD, don't remember who the post was from sorry, full credit goes to whoever), about hollow stems and "dounut" joints. It does seem to me that they are either benifical traits, or are gene linked to benificial traits. In any event, almost all the best plants I have show both traits, and it does seem to be at least a tendancy for plants showing these traits to test well after harvest.

Anyone have an opinion on this?


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## Grubs (Sep 20, 2009)

Quick question to anyone who might know. Has anyone tried to use an EZ Cloner from start to finish for a quick seed set? I have a group of "second bests" that I'd like to seed with the "bests" and put the seeds away for a rainy day. Anyway, I don't want to get too sidetracked, or put too much effort into it, but if I can avoid just throwing them out, I'd like to. For example, I have one that's a pretty cool plant but has a foul aroma that I am going to keep away from the pleasant subtle notes I'm trying to keep-develop, but I'd like to keep some seeds from if I change my mind or do another project where I don't care about taste and just want something that hits hard.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Sep 20, 2009)

WHATS UP GRUBS!!!.. i just got a ezcloner and IMO i think u can grow some beans in there not sure how many, but i have clones just kickin it in there that are full-on plants now . proby have to kill them..


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## bicycle racer (Sep 20, 2009)

by doughnut joints what do you mean? like swollen at the internodes? i have not used an easy cloner lately i have been doing air layering as an easy stress free clone method it works pretty well.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Sep 20, 2009)

yeah i think that he means at the internodes because i see the seem things on my best plants. as for the hollow stems, they seem to be more potent. i also note that my highest yeilding plants use a alot of CAL/MAG (IRON)..


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## Grubs (Sep 20, 2009)

There are bulges on the main stem where the branches shoot off that looks sort of like a doughnut or a washer. It's almost like the growth at the end of a healed over wound.


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## Grubs (Sep 20, 2009)

California Orange Bud x White Widow


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## Grubs (Sep 20, 2009)

White Widow x California Orange Bud


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## Grubs (Sep 20, 2009)

Blackberry x Purple Lady


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## MEANGREEN69 (Sep 20, 2009)

yeah i read some were that its a sign of a good yeilding plant, it perpareing the branch to hold up its yeild..


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## Grubs (Sep 20, 2009)

Hey MeanGreen, how's it hanging? I don't know what it means, but it does keep showing up. Might just be my gene set, but it is lookling like a quality indicator.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Sep 21, 2009)

i always heard its a good trait to look for aswell, check out this thread i think you mite like it ,old but has some cool info :https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/205358-biotechnology-cannabis-sativa.html


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## born2killspam (Sep 21, 2009)

I was wondering if that was what you meant.. When I was growing NL almost all phenos displayed that.. Not all were good yielders, but one or two were..


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## seasmoke (Sep 21, 2009)

Awesome thread Grub! Cudo's for having so much patience. +-rep. I also read the "rings" were a favorable trait when choosing a plant.

Do you have any pics of your girls in flower?


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## bicycle racer (Sep 21, 2009)

ime a lot of good clones going around socal have that feature always wondered about those swollen joints its very common on plants i have grown. also for me almost any big plant i have grown has hollow stems.


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## Grubs (Sep 22, 2009)

Of course you have to ask just after I pulled out a bunch that matured early, but here is what's left.


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## Grubs (Sep 22, 2009)

Oh, and that's under a 400 watt HPS, and it's a double scrog.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Sep 22, 2009)

nice looking plants there grubs, a few Q's if i may?: 1:how big of a area?, 2: how tall are they before u flower them?, 3: how tall are they when there done?..also are u growing SOG? and how far are those in to flower?.


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## Grubs (Sep 22, 2009)

MEANGREEN69 said:


> nice looking plants there grubs, a few Q's if i may?: 1:how big of a area?, 2: how tall are they before u flower them?, 3: how tall are they when there done?..also are u growing SOG? and how far are those in to flower?.


About 3'x4', but most use is in the center 2'x3'.

Well, I scrog at about 8", let grow about another foot , scrog again to even out, and flower as soon as they clear.

About three feet tall to end.

Because I'm doing several strains, I did ten plants. No reason why you couldn't do just one or two, but I have my pet project to consider.

I have 2 almost identical areas so I tend to flip them. One vegs while one flowers. That gives me about an extra month or so to veg with.

Eleven weeks. Another hassle with doing a bunch of different strains is that there may be a month difference in harvest times. What that really means is that the last group usually gets the axe a tad early to open up the space (and late blooming isn't something I'm trying for anyway).


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## Grubs (Sep 22, 2009)

Oh, and I keep the light VERY close. It is pass through vented and the plants don't start getting crispy unless they touch the glass.


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## seasmoke (Sep 23, 2009)

Well what You've got left looks fantastik!!


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## Grubs (Sep 23, 2009)

Kind of you to say sir.


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## Roland (Sep 27, 2009)

Well .. I got some seeds at a local supply ... O G Kush ..out of one bud ..... Out of twelve seeds .. that looked viable .. I got ten to germinate.. eight to sprout .. out of the eight .... all were female one very sativa looking .. the rest were a cross section between sativa and more indica -ish ...... some are maturing quicker .. with my first partial harvest .. right at eight weeks into flowering with the more sativa looking plant being towards the slower end .. maybe three more weeks ... also included a pic of my Sour Diesel clone from a clone ...... I gotta get some pollen .. I was hoping for a male so I could get some seeds ..


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## Grubs (Sep 27, 2009)

Keep cloning your best girls until you get more seeds.


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## Grubs (Oct 6, 2009)




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## Grubs (Oct 6, 2009)




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## Grubs (Oct 6, 2009)




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## bicycle racer (Oct 7, 2009)

i wish i had a cmera like that i cant take any pics like that.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Oct 7, 2009)

nice pics...are those dry? or are they still alive?


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## Grubs (Oct 7, 2009)

MEANGREEN69 said:


> nice pics...are those dry? or are they still alive?


Very early in cure. Could have used a little more time I think, but I wanted the space. That tends to happen to the last ones to mature I'm afraid.


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## bicycle racer (Oct 8, 2009)

yeah any plant that i have that takes too long and is not to my liking ends up as bho.


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## Realclosetgreenz (Oct 8, 2009)

It takes about 2-4 years to truly stabilize specific genetics's maybe longer, not to mention how much space it would take. Generally inbred depression could be over come thru selection. Also save previous generations for future use.


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## Grubs (Oct 9, 2009)

I'm not worrying about stabilizing anything yet, I'm still trying to get the right stuff piled up to start sorting though.

I'm in no rush. I figure I'm going to be growing for the next umpteen years anyway, so why not?


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## bicycle racer (Oct 9, 2009)

absolutely its just a matter of time selection and generations.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Oct 12, 2009)

hey grubs, do u keep the left over beans from diff gens (F1,F2,F3) so that if u run

into inbred depression, or lose a trait that you whould want you can go back and

find it??? im very worried that i mite lose a trait/s so i make and keep more beans

that i need just for this...and wanted to know if this is a comin thing to do or is

theres a eazer way other then cloneing & keeping??....


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## Grubs (Oct 13, 2009)

I keep well labeled seed samples of everything, and I try to keep clones of the two best females for at least one generation after them. Never know when I might need to take a step back, or if something shows that I want to reenforce. Since I bought the original seeds, I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket, by saving seeds from each step if something goes wrong I can go back and pick up from there instead of going all the way back to scratch.


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## Roland (Oct 13, 2009)

Hi ya grubs .. thought you might like to check these out


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## Grubs (Oct 14, 2009)

Way cool Roland, what did you take the close ups with? Looks like it has a much better DOF than mine.


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## Roland (Oct 14, 2009)

Grubs said:


> Way cool Roland, what did you take the close ups with? Looks like it has a much better DOF than mine.


 
It's the microscope ..... Man .... what a find .... $ 175.00 .on Craig's list ........ 

10x to 70x Zoom .. steroscope (2 eyepieces ...... Bausch &Lomb ... with a light 

then I took my camera and held it to the eyepiece ... some pic's are good ..haha .. a lot ....... not as good.

The other photos .. I just play with different settings on my Camera and keep the good ones and throw out the others.

The Camera is Vivatar 5.0 Mp ... not top of the line ... haha not even mid high .. but does the job ........ I been thinkin' about gettting a new 

Camera for quite a while .... still not sure what I REALLY want ... more Mp and close up potential I guess


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## Grubs (Oct 18, 2009)

Score on the microscope. Sounds sweet!


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## Grubs (Oct 29, 2009)

If there is anyone in the UK that reads Urban Garden Magazine, there is an article on recordkeeping in this issue by an AHEM, close personal friend.
Has anyone read it? What did you think?


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## Grubs (Nov 12, 2009)

I have a plant that has come out with whorled phyllotaxy. The three node instead of two node thing. Anyone know anything about it? It is on a male plant, but most of what I can find on it sounds like BS and guesses. It is supposed to be a breedable trait, but would you want to? One book says some forms of it may be sex linked, which would be way cool, but I find doubtful because a variety you could sex by veg growth wouldn't be a secret. I'm not above trying anyway, but was looking for input.


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