# Vermicomposters Unite! Official Worm Farmers Thread



## Rising Moon (Mar 26, 2013)

Hey everyone!

I thought the Organic section could use a *dedicated thread about all things WORMS! 
*

*Post your questions, techniques, photos or comments related to Vermicomposting.


*Ive had my bin going for about 4 years, and feed my worms an assortment of food scraps, selected herbs (nettle, clover, alfalfa, kelp, yarrow, comfrey)
rock dusts, coco and home made leaf mold/composts.

I will also be building a new bin from smart pots (thanks Rrog) and will post some photos when its built.

(My latest batch of Recycled soil after worms have done their thing..)


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## Rising Moon (Mar 29, 2013)

Okay so lets talk about *FOOD*.

I am curious to hear what types of foods other feed to their worms,

Over the years, I/my worms have started to favor certain types of food over others...

For instance, I used to add lots of coffee grounds to my bin, but slowly came to the conclusion that while the worms will eat coffee grounds, they don't prefer coffee grounds...

This was sorta the "light bulb" moment for me, because I realized that I can feed my worms very selected foods, to create certain results...

And my "Herbally Enhanced" worm castings were born.


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## Rising Moon (Mar 29, 2013)

I now feed my worms all sorts of selected goodies and treats:

Wakame kelp

Dried Red Clover flowers

Dried Yarrow flowers

Dried Valerian flowers

Dired Chamomile flowers

Dried Nettle leaf

Fresh Comfrey leaf

Hemp powder

Cannabis leaf/stem

Diatomaceous Earth

Powdered eggshells

Coco fiber


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## Kalyx (Mar 30, 2013)

Great thread idea. This will be a huge resource for real living organic cultivators. Input quality is soooo important IMO. After various attempts at outdoor composting in the dry dry desert climate im in, indoors may be the solution. My wife has been resisting an indoor bin for a bit. Now I will have this thread to show her it can be done. She bought me worms eat my garbage so she's got it coming eventually!


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## mschanandlerbong (Mar 31, 2013)

sweeeet i just started mine but im afraind i may have overfed the worms i dug up about 150 yesterday and layeredy 2 inches of newspaper, then about 3 maybe 4 inches of cow/goat poop, some apple and some dirt, and toped it with a litle wet newspaper, i cant really see any worms anymore though im goin to go dig for more rite now though hopefully therye alrite


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## Rising Moon (Mar 31, 2013)

You may have the wrong type of worms if your digging them out of the yard. (earth worms)

Vermicompost is usually made with red wiggler worms. Otherwise known as composting worms or manure worms. 

The conditions we are trying to provide is not suitble for earthworms. Plus they eat much slower.


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## SpicySativa (Apr 1, 2013)

My worms eat:

-Fruit and veggie scraps (chopped about pea sized and frozen)

-Cannabis - Fresh or dry fan leaves, mush left over after hash making, etc, etc.

-Alfalfa meal

-Neem meal

-Kelp meal

-Oyster shell meal

-Crab meal

-Rock dust (Azomite, soft rock phosphate, etc)

-Powdered mosquito dunk

All that goes in a bed of cardboard strips, brown paper, and leaves.


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## Rising Moon (Apr 1, 2013)

Nice list, happy worms. 

Ive been wondering about small amounts of charcoal, what do you guys think?

Good idea or maybe toxic?


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## SpicySativa (Apr 1, 2013)

Rising Moon - I doubt a little charcoal would hurt. Maybe try some in one corner of the bin and see how your worms react? I'm sure it's not toxic for them, just a matter of whether they like it or not.


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## CaptainCAVEMAN (Apr 1, 2013)

Great thread man. 

I'm trying out pistachios, among most of the same stuff mentioned.


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## dirtsurfr (Apr 1, 2013)

WHat would happen if I dumped a dozen or so worms in my holes for my plants along with organic soil??


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## Rising Moon (Apr 2, 2013)

dirtsurfr said:


> WHat would happen if I dumped a dozen or so worms in my holes for my plants along with organic soil??


I do it all the time in my no till pots. 

Works great!


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## dirtsurfr (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks now all I have to do is find my Hindu Skunk and all will be golden!!


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## Rising Moon (Apr 2, 2013)

No till pots with worms added after harvest, left to chill for a few weeks before I sow some cover crop like beans/oats...


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## headtreep (Apr 2, 2013)

Ok teach me the ways of the worms hehe. I have great sources for worms and Vermicompost but who likes to pay for shit they can do themselves 

I have a 5 tower worm farm with a pound of worms on a bed of coco and news paper. I'm thinking rock dust, neem cake, kelp meal, veggie scraps, and botanicals to start. Are you getting the meals wet or using what is leftover from a tea or just add powder? Is it kind of like making soil for you worms to live in? Everything small bits. How about compost? How much?


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## Rising Moon (Apr 2, 2013)

headtreep said:


> Ok teach me the ways of the worms hehe. I have great sources for worms and Vermicompost but who likes to pay for shit they can do themselves
> 
> I have a 5 tower worm farm with a pound of worms on a bed of coco and news paper. I'm thinking rock dust, neem cake, kelp meal, veggie scraps, and botanicals to start. Are you getting the meals wet or using what is leftover from a tea or just add powder? Is it kind of like making soil for you worms to live in? Everything small bits. How about compost? How much?


Okay so, the key is, layering.

First layer, coco, then worms.

Second layer, a mix of food waste (2 inches ish..), and enough rock dust/meal to buffer the moisture.

Then more coco, and moist newspaper on top.

Add fresh food, compost, herbs, dusts and meals under the newspaper, and replace the paper as it breaks down...

Ill add dry leaf botanicals when I need to suck up some moisture, Ill add left overs from teas when I need to add moisture.

The compost is good to layer in once in a while as you build, and they eat.

You should see quite a bit of action when you lift the newspaper to check conditions and feed your bin, and the condition directly under the newspaper will tell you if you need to add food, coco or rock dust/dry leaf to buffer moisture.


Good luck!

Welcome to the club


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## headtreep (Apr 2, 2013)

Rising Moon said:


> Okay so, the key is, layering.
> 
> First layer, coco, then worms.
> 
> ...


Very well put. I'm understanding it now  I see where I went wrong. I had too much crap straight up lol. I'm surprised it didn't stink up the place.


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## Rising Moon (Apr 2, 2013)

When I first started, I made the same mistake, and my worms were literally crawling OUT of my bin...


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## headtreep (Apr 2, 2013)

There really is a lot to learn with the farming we all do. One subject could take a lifetime hehe. All good fun!


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## Rrog (Apr 2, 2013)

Char / charcoal / biochar is great in the bins. I feed Bokashi, kelp, biochar, crab shell meal, neem and a little greens. I have them in 30 gallon Geopots on a nice little wheeled rack that allows airflow under.


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## SpicySativa (Apr 2, 2013)

headtreep said:


> Ok teach me the ways of the worms hehe. I have great sources for worms and Vermicompost but who likes to pay for shit they can do themselves
> 
> I have a 5 tower worm farm with a pound of worms on a bed of coco and news paper. I'm thinking rock dust, neem cake, kelp meal, veggie scraps, and botanicals to start. Are you getting the meals wet or using what is leftover from a tea or just add powder? Is it kind of like making soil for you worms to live in? Everything small bits. How about compost? How much?


There are all kinds of ways to go about vermicomposting. For adding rock dusts and amendments, I use a couple different methods. If I feel like the bin needs more bedding, I'll shred and wet down some cardboard in a bucket, dust it with whatever, add a tablespoon or so of castings to kick start the biology, mix it up a little, and lay it down in the bin. Use this method with oyster shell or some other calcium source (egg shells, etc) and a worm orgy will ensue.

If I'm feeling lazy... I just use a tablespoon each of oyster shell, alfalfa, kelp, crab, and neem, plus a little chunk of mosquito dunk. All this gets a quick once-over with the mortar and pestle then gets dusted over the top of the bin. 

I keep all my various organic dry amendments in Tupperware-style containers made for coffee. They have nice big flip-up lids, and each came with a handy dandy 2 TBSP scoop. It's super quick and easy to grab a scoop of this, scoop of that, give it I quick mash with the mortar and pestle, dust it, and done. Getting my grow area organized has made the whole experience soooo much better...


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## Cann (Apr 3, 2013)

Been meaning to post this for a few days but ya know how things are...busy. 

My worms get fed bokashi, eggshells, greens/canna mulch (usually I let it dry and then crumble it into the bins), shredded newspaper/cardboard/egg cartons, and then all the amendments I usually put into my soil: neem, karanja, kelp, crab, alfalfa (in tiny amounts), sul-po-mag (the occasional sprinkle), greensand, rock dusts etc. whatever I have lying around really.

I usually just dig a little hole in a corner, add my food+amendments, and then cover it again with soil/newspaper. a week or two later I will dig another hole nearby and deposit more food, checking on the previous pile to see how the worms are reacting. I find that a certain amount of negligence is often a good thing when it comes to worms. they definitely prefer to be left alone as long as they have the basics: moisture, darkness, and some amount of food. even if you don't feed them food scraps they will consume their bedding until it is just castings left. I currently have a bin that I havent fed for around 2 months, and I have just been letting them work the same stuff over and over. The worms might not breed in these conditions, but I have enough worms and right now I am focused on producing amazing castings. 

i have populations of mites that seem to come and go, along with fungus gnats etc. i just topdress mosquito dunks if the gnats get out of hand. the mites are awesome, the only annoying thing is they love to crawl up my arms when I dig around in the bins, and then I can feel them crawling all over me lol, on the face, etc. not a fan of bugs crawling on my skin...i can tolerate it, but it's not fun. 

something that really resonates with my from _worms eat my garbage _(mary appelhof) was when mary said that she feeds her worms whenever she wants to feed them, not whenever the worms need to be fed. I don't let the worms dictate anything I do...they just sit in the corner, and when I have the motivation I throw some food and goodies in and cover it up...simple as that. it really doesn't have to be very complicated unless you want it to be. less can often be more with worms. they are awesome pets that way...they don't take up much space, don't make much noise, thrive off negligence (as long as it's moist), and consume my waste when I provide them with it. And in return I get castings! which may be the single most important component of my soil...black gold so to speak. 

not bad for a pet...much better than my damn german shepherd who costs a fortune in food (she eats raw organic grass fed beef...spoiled bitch!) and then proceeds to dig up my veggies and bury beef bones in my soil mixes...lol. not as redeeming as the worms...although she does provide a bit more protection from home invaders haha. i have a "beware of dog" sign...where is the "beware of worms" sign??? that'll slow em down....

k obviously i've smoked a few too many bowls of sativa  time to shut up


Heres a few shots of my various bins. I have 4 bins in total, one of which is a smartpot.

using a saucer as cardboard...thats how lazy I am at the moment lol. it works...they love it under there. this bin has some earthworms that I dug up from the yard (about 50) and then a few thousand red wigglers. notice the squash seeds germinating in there...must be from the compost I'm running through. the bin is currently composed of bu's blend, my own compost, some manure, and old roots 707 soil +rootwads. 


mites feasting on a dead worm

little guys going to town on roots/rockwool

Here is the bin I have been letting the worms work for ~2 months. the only noticeable things left are avocado and mango pits...along with the pumice of course.


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## headtreep (Apr 3, 2013)

Cool pics that just how I pictured it in my head after fuckin it off lol. Oh well shit happens and man it's hard to keep sometimes lol.


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## Cann (Apr 3, 2013)

oh yeah and by ~2 months i mean thats how long i didnt feed them for...they have been in that bin since december and i fed them for a few months before cutting the food supply


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## snowboarder396 (Apr 4, 2013)

Cann are those mites actually beneficial? esp. for when you go to use the soil/casting for a grow?


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## Rising Moon (Apr 4, 2013)

The mites are sorta neutral. They do for sure break down organic matter, but they also indicate acidic conditions or excessive moisture. 

But, Its completely normal for your bin to have a fluctuating population of mites and other creatures, but too many of them could become a problem, as some of the others can prey on the worms.

And Canns bins look healthy, just like his plants.


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## SupraSPL (Apr 6, 2013)

Cann said:


> it really doesn't have to be very complicated unless you want it to be


That says it all. You could probably just feed them canna scraps and use leaves for bedding. I don't use newspaper or cardboard because I don't trust it to be free of chemicals. I just use maple leaves because they break down more quickly than oak.

I feed them organic vegetable scraps, canna scraps, powdered organic eggshells, azomite, organic banana peels and that is about it.

There are 4 kinds of mites I have seen so far. 

1. Red mites slow moving - I hear these can be predatory but when I see them they are clustered on detritus not on worms. They came with a batch of worms I ordered so I rinsed the worms off and started that bin over which worked well.
2. Brownish mites very fast moving larger size (hypoaspis miles) beneficial predatory soil mites. I was unable to keep their population going in my soil or bins.
3. Brownish mites fast moving smaller size. These mites are prolific reproducers and are very happy in recycled soil and in compost bins. They look exactly like hypoaspis miles but are smaller in size. These are the ones that will crawl on your arm. They are harmless to seedlings and plants. Not sure if they bother baby worms but I havent seen evidence of that yet.
4. White sucking mites. Non moving or very slow moving mites. These are the ones that come and go and as far as I can tell they are harmless.


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## Rrog (Apr 6, 2013)

Great post! Very interesting stuff. 

I will have to check out your LED thread. I'm finishing up one myself.


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## whodatnation (Apr 7, 2013)

Subbed  Iv been out worm hunting with not much luck, Im cant pay an arm and a leg for a bag of worms... I may end up doing it though


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## Cann (Apr 8, 2013)

worm hunting is damn easy if you have a backyard..just throw a tarp down, weigh it down with something (I usually just mix soil and leave it on the tarp), and wait (I end up waiting ~30 days for the soil to mature, but I'm sure you could harvest worms in a week or so). 

you want the soil surface under the tarp to be moist, so if you live in a dry area you can water before putting the tarp down, otherwise the tarp will naturally trap enough moisture to bring the worms to the surface. after however many days, pull back the tarp and you should see this:


if you look hard you can see a bunch of worms, worm trails/burrows, and tiny casting deposits. 

here they are up close:


after about 5 minutes of plucking worms...

check out the crazy green sickly looking worm..not sure about this little dude lol


Once I harvest the worms, I go back and pick up all their little casting deposits. I usually end up with something like this:


not bad at all given the price...and the best part is that this whole process is a byproduct of me making/recycling soil. most of the time I don't even harvest the worms or castings, I just move the tarp to a new location and let them go back into their burrows...but when I'm feeling up to it i'll snatch up a bunch of worms and toss them in one of my many worm bins. there is a bin I have which is specifically dedicated to lawn-only worms, cause I know they are probably a range of species vs. the red wigglers I have in my other bins. 

if you don't have a lawn i'm sure you could harvest worms out of the forest or a local park by putting damp cardboard down...or even better by putting down some veggie scraps with damp cardboard on top..it's just about finding a discreet/remote enough location that your experiment wont get f***ed with. 


k time to sleep lol


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## Rising Moon (Apr 8, 2013)

You can also trap a bunch of them by putting a clay or plastic pot with decent soil in it, upside down on the lawn. 

They will migrate up into the pots, and in a couple days you should have tons of them. 

Great way to feed a chicken as well as build soil.


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## whodatnation (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks for the info Cann, and RMoon  I;ll give hunting another go.


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## AliCakes (Apr 9, 2013)

I tried worm hunting a when I first set up. Apparently the worms I got didn't like container life and I kept finding them dead on the ground outside. So my bin is a flow through design with red worms. This persons bin was my inspiration, but I added a piano hinge to close the harvesting area and keep pests out. My total cost was about $20 plus worms.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/verm/msg0518483522985.html


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## NickNasty (Apr 11, 2013)

I'm just getting the stuff together to start vermicomposting. Just ordered a mortar/pastel and some nursery flats. I got everything else.


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## Rrog (Apr 11, 2013)

I thought you were an official VermiComposter already NN. Cool to get you folded in!

What's with the mortar and pestle?


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## NickNasty (Apr 11, 2013)

Nope I have helped others set them up but haven't got around to setting mine up. I moved to where I live now just a little over a year ago and had other stuff around the house and in the garden that took priority. As far as the mortar/pestle I just need one.


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## Rrog (Apr 11, 2013)

I thought you were grinding up worms...


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## Rising Moon (Apr 11, 2013)

Grinding up egg shells, crab shells, quartz crystals ect!


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## Cann (Apr 11, 2013)

love to grind up neem meal/karanja for a topdress or a tea. more surface area = faster breakdown once it hits the soil..at least thats how I understand it. 

perhaps thats how I burnt my ladies in 5 gallons with 1 tsp of neem meal actually...hmmmm. 

gotta clean the mortar and pestle well afterwards! lol. my gf hates when I grind crab shells cause the smell likes to stick around...


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## cbtbudz (Apr 11, 2013)

a cool little trick to find worms in the ground of your outdoor garden. get a stick and shove it into the ground and get another stick and rubb the first stick for a couple mins and the worms should come right to the top of the soil. not sure why this works but hey.


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## Cann (Apr 19, 2013)

found some worms mating the other day..snapped a pic real fast with the iphone. pretty crazy looking LOL. weird white secretions......


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## Redbird1223 (Apr 21, 2013)

cbtbudz said:


> a cool little trick to find worms in the ground of your outdoor garden. get a stick and shove it into the ground and get another stick and rubb the first stick for a couple mins and the worms should come right to the top of the soil. not sure why this works but hey.


the stick that's pushed into the ground needs notches on it...so that when you rub it with the second stick, it creates an annoying noise and vibrations. that's what drives them up.
i tried several times as a kid, but it never worked for me

from uncle jim's website
*[SIZE=+1]Composting Worms[/SIZE]*





One of the common misconceptions amongst vermicomposting beginners is that any earthworm can be used for worm composting, or kept in an indoor bin in general. 


I can still remember the disappointment of discovering (during my teenage years) that I could not keep a population of soil dwelling worms in a bucket. Before becoming interested in worm composting I was an avid aquarium hobbyist, always looking for ways to raise live food for my fish. Having heard that people were able to keep thriving worm bins in their house I naturally assumed they were raising the same kind I found in my garden.


Eventually I learned that most of my yard worms were of the anecic type  that is to say they were soil dwelling worms that create burrows and tend to lead a somewhat solitary existence (they need their space). The worms ideally suited for composting on the other hand are referred to as epigeic. This group tends to live in rich organic material (not soil), and are adapted to crowding and warmer temperatures. So its not difficult to see why epigeic worms would do much better in an indoor composting bin than their soil dwelling cousins.
By far, the most common variety of composting worm is _Eisenia fetida_  also known as the red worm or red wiggler (see the Quick Facts section for other names). If you are looking to start up your own worm composting bin this is definitely the worm for you. There _are_ other species of composting worm, but we can deal with them in future articles.
So where does on get ahold of some of these worms??


Well there are various options. The easiest (but most expensive) is to simply buy them. There are a wide variety of online merchants who will sell them to you, OR you may be able to track down a local supplier (I will be eventually setting up a comprehensive supplier directory to help people find merchants in their area). If you need some recommendations simply drop me an email.


In general worms are pretty expensive (typically running somewhere between $25 and $40/lb USD, although decent discounts tend to be given on larger orders), but its amazing how fast you can build a large thriving population starting with only a pound of worms.


Another option is to track down someone else with a worm bin in your area and ask them to share. Over the years Ive been given worms on multiple occasions and now happily pay it forward on occasion myself. Getting in touch with your local gardening clubs or municiple waste management division should prove helpful.


Composting worms (_E. fetida_) dont typically occur in nature, but there IS a decent chance of finding some on a local farm if they keep aged manure piles. I can still remember the very first time I saw a population of red wiggler worms. I was working at a horse farm and happened to dig into a pile of manure sitting behind the barn. It was absolutely LOADED with red worms! I had never seen so many worms in one place ever (nor have I since then). If I had been into worm composting at the time this would have been like hitting the jackpot.
When it comes to adding worms to a new system, I like to err on the side of caution. I prefer to build my population up to the ideal level, rather than using standard guidelines. A widely accepted recommendation is to add 1lb of worms for each sq ft of bin surface area you have. So if your bin is 1.5 X 2 ft (width x length) it should be able to handle 3 lbs of worms. I would personally rather add 1lb of worms to a bin this size and let the population reach an population equilibrium on its own. Red worms reproduce very rapidly under favorable conditions so it shouldnt take too long.


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## Kalyx (Apr 24, 2013)

I can't wait to get home and start some bins. What is the recommended size for a smart pot bin? The biggest I have around are 15 gal root pots. Would you recommend starting with multiple bins or one? Multiples in case my learning curve is shallow, one would be easier to get right? Suggestions...
When done right there is no "worm-tea" dripping out of the fabric right? Just keep a nice balanced moisture level. Rrog do you think having the air zone under is good to keep a rookie from going anaerobic at the bottom? I put my fresh transplants on air lifters like this for the first week or two and it definitely helps as I water thorough at transplant and there are zero roots at the bottom at the start. Worms rock!


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## Rrog (Apr 24, 2013)

When I asked what the minimum bag size might be, it was suggested that I try 30 gallon. So I have 2. The air zone underneath is a big deal, yes. I'm very happy. Amazing compost. Anyone wanting to raise worms will find a lot of help here.


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## sullivan666 (Apr 24, 2013)

I should be getting my 2 30 gallon dirt pots in this week. Rrog, do you just have worms in one pot at a time and transfer over when you want to harvest castings? Also, do you think a pound of worms is enough to start or should I go 2 pounds?


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## Rrog (Apr 24, 2013)

1 pound is fine-

I started in one pot and when volume built, I transferred some to a second pot and now have both going.


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## sullivan666 (Apr 24, 2013)

Thanks for the info, Rrog!

Another question...I was originally going to keep my vermipots inside, but looking at things now, it's going to be a bit crowded if I do so. I am considering putting them outside in a shaded area; however, I'm concerned that it may be too hot for them. I live in the desert and it gets scorching hot in the summer months. I've read that red worms can withstand temps up to 109 F, but I was curious as to if anyone here has experience with this?


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## Rrog (Apr 24, 2013)

Wow... no experience with that I'm afraid. Good thing you're asking...


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## st0wandgrow (Apr 24, 2013)

sullivan666 said:


> Thanks for the info, Rrog!
> 
> Another question...I was originally going to keep my vermipots inside, but looking at things now, it's going to be a bit crowded if I do so. I am considering putting them outside in a shaded area; however, I'm concerned that it may be too hot for them. I live in the desert and it gets scorching hot in the summer months. I've read that red worms can withstand temps up to 109 F, but I was curious as to if anyone here has experience with this?


sullivan666 .... I was told by the guy that I bought my worms from that they will jump ship and leave your bin (or die) if temps get beyond 90 degrees. Around 70 degrees is optimal for them.


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## sullivan666 (Apr 24, 2013)

Thanks for the info...I'll figure out how to keep em indoors.


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## st0wandgrow (Apr 24, 2013)

Cann said:


> found some worms mating the other day..snapped a pic real fast with the iphone. pretty crazy looking LOL. weird white secretions......
> 
> View attachment 2622232



Pervert!


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## Rrog (Apr 24, 2013)

He's disgusting


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## Kalyx (Apr 26, 2013)

Danks rrog and all contributers. Is there any drawback to just getting wigglers from my neighbors kitchen scrap compost, for an indoor bin? Theirs is out back in a hole under a rug piece and there are all manners of bugs up to monster cockroaches in our 'hood.


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## st0wandgrow (Apr 29, 2013)

Question:

I added about 2 pounds of a veggie/fruit slurry with some pulverized egg shells and rabbit poop to my bin when I added my worms. This was over a week ago. A few days ago I added another 2 pounds of a similar slurry to the other side of the bin. Is it OK that the worms are all still hanging out in the original side of the bin where I first added the food and have not migrated over to the other side yet? If so, how long will it take them to finish up with the first pile and migrate over to the new food pile?


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## NickNasty (Apr 29, 2013)

how many lbs of worms did you get?


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## st0wandgrow (Apr 29, 2013)

1lb. From what I've read they will go through half their weight in food per day. I figured 4 days for 2lbs of food, and I added a couple days thinking they wouldn't be dialed in right away so their consumption would be down a bit. Maybe I underestimated how long it will take them to get adjusted to their new home?

They look active and wiggling all over when I check on them and none of them have packed their bags to leave (I don't think).


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## hyroot (Apr 29, 2013)

Would a 7 gal smart pot be too small to use? I have a bunch of those.


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## snowboarder396 (Apr 29, 2013)

QUOTE=st0wandgrow;9020695]1lb. From what I've read they will go through half their weight in food per day. I figured 4 days for 2lbs of food, and I added a couple days thinking they wouldn't be dialed in right away so their consumption would be down a bit. Maybe I underestimated how long it will take them to get adjusted to their new home?

They look active and wiggling all over when I check on them and none of them have packed their bags to leave (I don't think).[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't worry about it to much. If there still on the one side then they have plenty of food still. They'll move over to other side when they search for more food. If they look good wouldnt worry. Also I'd do small piles food buried in a clockwise or vic versa so they can move from pile to pile as needed. Just don't forget to mark where your last pike you buried was


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## Cann (May 7, 2013)

Haven't fed this bin in a week or two - gave em some juicer scraps the other day. I think they liked it


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## dl290485 (May 11, 2013)

Hey guys I am trying to make a ghetto worm farm. They are like 85 bucks at the shops so instead I got hold of 3 second hand styrofoam boxes with lids. I want to get a few things clear before i start hacking into it.

1. How big should I make the drain holes and how many? Every description i've read online just say "poke holes" with no details... a "hole" could either let my fist through it or only a pencil tip so yeah something more accurate would be helpful.
2. The worms do travel around right? I've seen descriptions saying that worms will migrate up to higher boxes after the lower ones have been reduced to castings- but then on a tv gardening website it said to use fly screen to "stop the worms falling out" which sounds contradictory and stupid. Maybe that's just for the bottom layer before the drip tray?
3. If the worms are meant to migrate, that means that each box layer will have to sit flush with the compost below it it right? Unless worms jump or use ninja ropes like the game... My boxes won't sit inside each other- instead they will sit on top of each other (foam base to foam rim, not foam base to compost)- is that a problem or is it normal and i just make sure the lower boxes are always full? 
4. Air holes. Obviously i knock some air holes in the roof but do i do a lot like i'm putting an animal in a box or just one or two little screw driver sized holes? And what about other vents. Should i put holes in the sides of the boxes too?

I don't know if it's relevant but i'll be putting it in my garage and I live in Australia so no frost and though it may get a big warm in there some times it won't ever be in the sun.


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## Cann (May 12, 2013)

i wouldn't use styrofoam....just my 2cents. seems too fragile/toxic for the intended use


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## dl290485 (May 12, 2013)

Hmm well I guess I should just buy one- but that has to go on the end of a long list of other things I need to spend money on so might not happen for a while. As it is I still need to buy worms. From Bunnings Warehouse (they are cheap and guarantee to beat any price by 10%) the cheapest option they have is $48.98 for a 10 litre 1000 worm 'starter pack. I'm trying to find a small business worm farm in the area to get them cheaper hopefully. I'm impatient with everything in life and when I hear about something I like, I want to do it straight away so I still see using these foam boxes as a way to get worms happening sooner rather than later. 
As for toxic- i'm not actually in to organic to have clean buds lol. I just want to progress into organic because it seems like how plants are grown properly. When I first heard about root exudiates, beneficial fungi and symbiotic relationships with microbes I started to feel like although hydroponic and salt fertilizing worked, it wasn't learning to use the whole plant how it wants to work... so bottom line is for now I'm not over fussed with some random inorganic compounds finding their way in the mix if it won't kill the soil web or me from some months of using the boxes.
Yeah they feel a little a bit fragile but I know that some people have used them "for years" without a problem- I don't think it will take me years to scrounge some money up to buy something better.


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## Sincerely420 (May 15, 2013)

Just got my worms! Now time to catch up on this thread!


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## Cann (May 15, 2013)

Every new worm owner should have the book _Worms Eat My Garbage_ by Mary Appelhof. Cheap, succinct, and will guarantee success with your bins. I recommend this book to folks all the time...its up there w/ one straw revolution, teaming with microbes, etc. on the recommendation list. one of those books you'll wish you had more than one copy so you can loan them out to friends...


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## headtreep (May 15, 2013)

Cann said:


> Every new worm owner should have the book _Worms Eat My Garbage_ by Mary Appelhof. Cheap, succinct, and will guarantee success with your bins. I recommend this book to folks all the time...its up there w/ one straw revolution, teaming with microbes, etc. on the recommendation list. one of those books you'll wish you had more than one copy so you can loan them out to friends...



Cool that's a classic recommendation I have yet to read. Put in on the back burner with the worm bin but I do have a worm bin now and it makes sense to own that. Thanks for the reminder!!


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## sullivan666 (May 15, 2013)

I'm looking to make a bokashi bucket or 2 for wormwood...it looks to be a simple venture but I figured I'd post here and see if wants to share their design/experience with making a bokashi bucket?


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## NickNasty (May 15, 2013)

Anybody know where to get cheap bulk kelp meal (#50) with reasonable shipping? Or a place in Michigan that sells it?


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## Cann (May 15, 2013)

call feed stores...they usually sell #50 bags of kelp for livestock owners...i've been quoted around $90-$110 usually. 

shipping #50 of anything is usually a rip off...much better off to find it locally. somewhere must have it...

go on google maps and look for farm/feed stores...call and ask for kelp - thats your best/fastest bet. 


lol "call and ask for kelp" sounds funny


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## Rising Moon (May 15, 2013)

I know a place in GR that can get it Nick. PM me if your interested...


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## Sincerely420 (May 15, 2013)

*Thanks* for all the info folks! Gotta GREAT headstart here!

I was gonna buy a "worm farm" just because I can, but after a quick look around, I decided that I didn't want to be had some company! So, I'm in the process of building a bin. I have a couple extra 18 gallon totes at the moment that I plan on using by setting up a few layers in the top bin, and drilling holes in the bottom of that
*
So hows this sound for a plan?*
-2x 18gal totes. Totes sit flush together and are of the same sort. 
I'll fill the bottom tote with a layer or red lava rock, just to get some space between the two and allow for some air flow and drainage for the top bin.
-I'll drill holes in the bottom of the top bin and start my layers of with some newspaper..*
Here I have a question.*
*Do you guys foresee any problems with the worm getting out of the top bin, and into the bottom bin with the lava rock for any drainage?
I figure if that wouldn't be an issue, maybe over time I'll get some worm tea accumulation. Also the lava rock is the sort that you'd need to crush before using in the pots.*

I just sourced the worms locally tho. Found a guy selling some on Craigslist. I got a few pounds and some vermicompost for $25 bucks, so maybe you guys can go that route to sell you worms or castings if you have enough! Or for those of you looking to buy worms, maybe look local first?!

And lastly, I have the worms chilling some old soil right now, just until I can finish things up.
The soil is comprised of 5 broken down root balls(2-3gals each).
I've yet to re-amend it after harvesting all of those plants during the month of April, so it's just been sitting. I've got a GANG of soil ready to go, so I've been sorta just lax on doing anything with that soil...*BUT in all honesty, I been thinking about trying out a no-till plot, but was wondering how small a scale I could go with that, as far as pot size?*

*Will the worms be good in there for say....a week?
And I've been looking around to find out if the worms will munch on dead roots, but seem to get mixed answers..Anyone have any input on that?!*
I've got a few meals and rock dust I can dump in there for the time being if I need to. There's a good bit of of worms tho.

Cheers and thanks for all this info


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## flamingdice (Jun 9, 2013)

I wouldn't leave them for a week in 'soil'.. If you want to take it slowly, put your worms in ur vermicompost you bought. Remember to keep it moist though.. Good luck


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## Wetdog (Jun 9, 2013)

st0wandgrow said:


> Question:
> 
> I added about 2 pounds of a veggie/fruit slurry with some pulverized egg shells and rabbit poop to my bin when I added my worms. This was over a week ago. A few days ago I added another 2 pounds of a similar slurry to the other side of the bin. Is it OK that the worms are all still hanging out in the original side of the bin where I first added the food and have not migrated over to the other side yet? If so, how long will it take them to finish up with the first pile and migrate over to the new food pile?


They'll get there. First, there is a concept that is hard to get your head around, but once you grok it everything makes sense. Took me about a year.

*Worms don't *eat* anything, no teeth. LOL What they do is slurp up the bacterial slime off the decomposing food source. The faster it rots, the more food they have. *

When that second batch of slurry starts to rot, the worms will boogy right on over.

Once you understand that they aren't eating the food, but that gray goo that's growing ON the food, how often, how much and what you're feeding them starts making more sense.

Wet


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## Cann (Jun 9, 2013)

I like to let my food start rotting before I add it to the bins....bokashi is a nice way of doing this (you should see the worm orgy that ensues in the bokashi after a few days in the bin..). another good option is to put all your kitchen waste in the freezer for a day..the freezing will burst all the cell walls leaving the vegetables nice and mushy when you let them thaw...they will then rot faster so you can incorporate them into the bin. A few days ago I collected a bunch of my scraps, put them in a plastic bag and tied it off...and then put it in the sun  that should get things kickstarted a bit....

i also like to feed my worms a lot of manure and compost - that stuff is chock full of microorganisms! 

wet is 100% on point....the only things worms eat are bacteria, protozoa, nematodes, etc. - it's not like they're in your bin munching on the lettuce  they're munching on the microorganisms that are munching on the lettuce. knowing that definitely influences how/when you feed your worms


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## Wetdog (Jun 9, 2013)

LOL, yeah, the bokashi sits for a couple of days and then wham!

What they really like is the 'Santa's Beard' that's growing on top of the bokashi. Like fat girls in a chocolate shop! I throw a few pieces in and it's gone in hours.

I layer mostly, but the food sits and sits and then reaches the right level of decomposition and they go to town. That's when I add the next layer. Keeps the stuff from getting too hot, like fresh comfrey leaves for example.

Like you, I stop with the food a month or so before harvesting the bin. Let them get rid of anything they missed. They won't starve. I make the next bedding start about this time (peat based) and stuff has about a month to break down so the worms can get right to work and something to eat.

Doing worms is like learning to grow, you will probably kill a bin or 2 till you quit over feeding and over watering and generally learn to leave them alone for the most part.

I seldom check on my bins more than once/week, if that. I'll get 3 decent harvests/year. Two during the warm months when the basement gets up to 72 or so and only one over the winter when it stays in the mid 50's. Nothing rots very fast. But, it's sufficient for me.

Wet


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## Cann (Jun 10, 2013)

sounds like you got your system down 

the integration of worms and bokashi definitely helps move things along quickly...i like to throw soil amendments (neem, crab, kelp, oyster shell, aloe, rock dusts and clays, horsetail, etc.) into my bokashi bins (or just straight into the worm bins) to diversify my EWC and because it really can't hurt lol. nothin like some supercharged EWC...

i think the last point you made in your post is key - rarely checking on the worms. I look into my bins once every two weeks if that...usually when i'm going to feed. sometimes i'll peek in when I try out a new food source to see how long they take to eat it, but in general i leave em alone! worms thrive off negligence...i think that was originally said by mary appelhof (author of _Worms Eat My Garbage_). 

i love worms!!!!


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## hyroot (Jun 14, 2013)

When worms die is there any remains? I read that they are mostly water and there should be nothing left. But I found 2 curved crispy twig like somethings in the bin resi. The length and shape of what could possibly be shriveled up worms. Or I'm tripping over nothing. either way. I don't know how twigs would get down there. There's no water of any kind in the resi. The whole bin is damp though.


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## cmpzx (Aug 8, 2013)

Vermicomposter checking in here.

Just a few statements i want to leave you with after skimming this thread.

When choosing a home for your worms, its surface area not depth that will dictate your carrying capacity.

Earth Worms are not the same as Composting worms (red wigglers, European night-crawlers) you will not find composting worms looking in the dirt, you may however find them in some old horse dung.

You can keep multiple breeds of composting worms in the same bin (red wigglers tend to live in the top 3-4'' of compost, while the european nightcrawler tunnel deep in the pile[known for its excellent aeration])

Compost worms don't eat "fresh" things, they really just dine on the "rotten slime" for lack of a technical term. food items should be left to age for a day or 2 out before you put them in your bin.

If you need your bed to process things quicker lend it a hand, use a blender or food processor to slush up your waste before adding it to your bin, the worms will handle it MUCH faster.



Your worms will benefit from a hand full of dirt added to their bedding initially, they swallow tiny pebbles from this dirt to use in their Gizzard to break down food.


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## Rrog (Aug 8, 2013)

Great write-up!


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## NickNasty (Aug 8, 2013)

I just started my worm bins a couple months ago. I have been giving them compost I have already made then every few weeks sifting the top 4-5 inches of a 10-12in bed and it ends up being mostly worm castings. So far I get about a 5 gallon bucket full every 3 weeks which is about what a 30lb bag of wiggle worm castings will fill. I want to get to the point where Im making at least 5 gallons worth a week. Thanks for the advise cmpzx I just ordered some european night crawlers to supplement my red wigglers and will probably add some of these to my plants too.


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## cmpzx (Aug 8, 2013)

NickNasty said:


> I just started my worm bins a couple months ago. I have been giving them compost I have already made then every few weeks sifting the top 4-5 inches of a 10-12in bed and it ends up being mostly worm castings. So far I get about a 5 gallon bucket full every 3 weeks which is about what a 30lb bag of wiggle worm castings will fill. I want to get to the point where Im making at least 5 gallons worth a week. Thanks for the advise cmpzx I just ordered some european night crawlers to supplement my red wigglers and will probably add some of these to my plants too.


Pretty good haul, the best way to up your yield is more worms and more food, best way to up your population is increase your surface area. Also though the worms tolerate a huge temp range, I think i read they peak breeding at 77f. 

Good ventilation will help if your worm castings are coming out a little nasty/muddy. 

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheCompostGuy (i hope links are ok) has some really good information on the subject and a super sweet tutorial on how to make a fairly nice indoor vermicompost bin on the cheap (its the design i use). 


http://www.youtube.com/user/bnbob01 this guy has alot of great videos too, other related topics as well. Also has a very nice voice to listen to lol.


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## Rrog (Aug 9, 2013)

Vermicompost is really one of the most important aspects of gardening we could / should talk about IMHO. 

I saw how Coot was taking such care to amend his VC with the same elements that we initially add to soil. Kelp, Neem, Meals, etc. That's what I did in my worms-in-a-Geopot experiment over the winter.


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## PeaceLoveCannabis (Aug 9, 2013)

How did your worms in a geo-pot go Rrog? Also whats a good number of worms to start with. I think i have about a 1lb. But i have two bins so i split that in half. Should i get more worms for each bin, or do you think that should be enough to work towards a good number of worms. I would buy more if money grew on trees haha.


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## Rrog (Aug 9, 2013)

Let them reproduce, which they will. Make rabbits look like amateurs. What you have is plenty. Red Wigglers?

Geopots worked really well. The aeration underneath is a key, same as when you grow plants in them.


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## cmpzx (Aug 10, 2013)

cmpzx said:


> Pretty good haul, the best way to up your yield is more worms and more food, best way to up your population is increase your surface area. Also though the worms tolerate a huge temp range, I think i read they peak breeding at 77f.
> 
> Good ventilation will help if your worm castings are coming out a little nasty/muddy.
> 
> ...


Argggg... i knew i had it wrong, Peak breeding is 59-68F, they peak in SIZE around 77F


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## Rrog (Aug 10, 2013)

cmpzx- That's great info! I didn't know that.

Would you have an opinion about windrow vermicomposting? That's what I'm planning.


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## cmpzx (Aug 10, 2013)

Rrog said:


> cmpzx- That's great info! I didn't know that.
> 
> Would you have an opinion about windrow vermicomposting? That's what I'm planning.


had to google windrow, i'm a smaller scale guy with a couple well ventilated sterilite totes going, probably about 4lbs of red wrigglers from my initial 1/2lb (sitting at my carrying capacity but i dont really generate enough scraps or need more castings then i currently make). i know worms are pretty happy with grass clippings (provided they have not recently been sprayed with pesticides).


whats the basics of your idea?


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## Rrog (Aug 10, 2013)

Windrow is just digging a shallow trench and start with compost and worms, then scraps, etc. When that trench is full of mature compost, just dig a trench a foot or two away parallel and fill that with the goodies. Worms will migrate right through the earth from one trench to another. This leaves trench #1 devoid of worms... so just shovel it up.


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## cmpzx (Aug 10, 2013)

Ahhh, makes sense. I actually keep my beds in the furnace room in the basement. no windrow down there for sure. Bet you could build a massive worm population though.


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## Rrog (Aug 10, 2013)

Massive vermicompost output is what I'm looking for. Make your own, as it's the best. I amend it like I amend soil.


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## PeaceLoveCannabis (Aug 11, 2013)

I read somewhere that worms like to lay eggs when there is high humidity. Does anyone have any information on this? 
It makes me think it might have something to do with the egg staying pretty moist until they hatch.


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## Rrog (Aug 11, 2013)

Well, if this was a multiple choice test, that's the answer I'd pick. Humidity is usually high in / around the bins.


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## NickNasty (Aug 11, 2013)

I rarely have to moisten my bins the compost keeps the water held pretty well and I have seen lots of cocoons. The best method I have seen for indoor vericomposting in med-high volume is using the bakery trays for transporting bread.


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## Rrog (Aug 12, 2013)

Very Sweet! Good use for those bread trays!!


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## PeaceLoveCannabis (Aug 12, 2013)

Are those stacks of worms trays? I need a way to stack bins, i have more space vertically then horizontally.


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## NickNasty (Aug 12, 2013)

PeaceLoveCannabis said:


> Are those stacks of worms trays? I need a way to stack bins, i have more space vertically then horizontally.


I got those pics from a local MI guy who wrote a book.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1448604214/ref=rdr_ext_tmb <The book is just ok but I like his worm bins and he gives rough plans on how to build it. 
Here is a gallery of the base
https://plus.google.com/photos/110859787266844556821/albums/5606603339926580609?banner=pwa&authkey=CPHy7e_m5sO7gQE
Like me he uses compost to feed his worms and the newest stuff goes on the bottom and the oldest goes on top and the worms work there way down to find more food he also puts a bucket underneath to collect the juice when he runs water thru them. You also let the top one dry out a bit and fluff the vermicompost this helps them migrate down. Also I found out that fluffing your bins agitates them enough to want breed more.

He also sells a mix of biochar and vermicompost he calls BioPreta
http://abonochar.blogspot.com/
http://biopretasupersoil.com/ < the stuff is expensive but cool.


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## Rrog (Aug 12, 2013)

Sweet! That's all great, great stuff NN!


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## Crab Pot (Aug 15, 2013)

Super nice setup NN! Those bakery trays look like they might work for my situation too. Where can I find the trays?

Rrog, great looking vermicompost! Another possible option would be fabric pots. How do you separate the worms from the vermicompost in your system?

I started vermicomposting a couple of months back with 500 worms and a wooden stackable unit. It works great but just too damn small. So I ordered 10,000 additional red wigglers and made a bin for them using 4"x12" wood that I had laying around. The bin is 4' wide, 10' long and 12" high and sit on top of ground. I loaded one-half of the bin with finishing homemade compost, fresh seaweed/kelp, crab shells and some guts, neem meal... I thought that once the worms finish this half of the bin up I would add a new round of compost and food at the other end of the bin, let the worms migrate to that side of the bin and harvest the vermicompost from the the first half of the bin. 

i am relatively new at this and could use a little advice from you pros. Should I continue with my current on top of the ground system or go to the bakery trays or fabric pots? I don't mind changing systems if it's going to be an improvement.


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## NickNasty (Aug 15, 2013)

The best way to get them is used locally, they come in many different designs thou so be aware of that you can find them new online but they are expensive between 10-16$ a piece + shipping depending on size.
Here are a couple places online
https://indianaberry.com/products.php?cat=12&pid=309
http://www.glacierv.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=80000498-1344621418
The basic design however can be achieved with 2x4's and hardware cloth on the bottoms for probably under 5$ a level < You should vent the sides 

As far a changing your set up to this, that, or the other that is really up to your preferences.


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## Crab Pot (Aug 16, 2013)

NN, I ordered the book that you recommended, 'Beyond Compost: Converting Organic Waste Beyond Compiost Using Worms". I love his set-up. It looks clean. After I read the book I might convert but....

I dug into my "on the ground" worm bin after posting yesterday. It's got an easy 20- 30 gallons of castings already. The worms have only been in there a few weeks (maybe a month but I need to check the exact date the worms arrived). Prior to the worms arrival, I layered their bin. Starting with about 40 gallons of kelp/seaweed, homemade compost, fresh yarrow, fresh horsetail, lots of fruit and veggies and a bunch of different organic soil amendments. There was roughly 40 gallons of fresh seaweed/kelp on the bottom of my worm bin which now is mostly worm castings the color of baby poop...


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## NickNasty (Aug 16, 2013)

Sounds like your doing better then me. In my opinion I wouldn't change what seems to be working so well for you. BTW did you get a good deal on 10,000 wigglers ? That is a shit ton of worms.


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## Crab Pot (Aug 16, 2013)

I received the 10,000 worms from Lazy's Red Wigglers on July 26th and they cost me $165.95 with shipping. I made a funny video of the worms when I released them into their new home. It looked like a tital wave of worms in slow motion... LOL! Then, I read the instructions which said that you need to put a light over the worms their first night in their new home to keep them from roaming. Well, the bin is about 200 feet from the house, so I ran extension cords up there and put a lamp on top of them for the night.

165 bucks sounds expensive for worms but consider that I built my bin for free and it cost me about 50 bucks where I live to get a bag of Roots castings. It's only been 3 weeks and I probably have already paid for the worms in money that I will save from purchasing castings. 

To tell you the truth, this has been an amazing experience for me. I only wish that I had been composting and worm farming years ago. We started the compost pile two and a half years ago and all of our fruits and veggies come from local farms and ranches. I also live very close to the pacific ocean so a lot of seaweed, kelp and crab shell go into the compost pile and worm bin. Horsetail fern and thistle grow wild and I already had yarrow in my garden. Our trash is now less than half of what we had prior to composting.

It's actually been easier worm farming on the ground then it has been in my wooden bin. I had some mold issues with the wooden worm farm in the beginning until I added some compost to it and since then (approximately 2 months) it's been great. I'm going to keep both worm bins going and compare the castings between the two. 

Even though I have the two bins, I am still very new at this and it's great to have a place like this to learn from.


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## Crab Pot (Aug 18, 2013)

Are we going to end up with better castings by feeding freshly made compost, fresh/frozen ingredients, a combination of the two or does it mater?


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## Wetdog (Aug 18, 2013)

It doesn't really matter, worms don't really *eat* any of it.

Wrap your head around this:

What worms actually eat (slurp), is the bacterial slime from the decomposition of the 'food' added to the bin. All you have to do is add something that will rot, fresh, frozen, composted.

Wet


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## Crab Pot (Aug 18, 2013)

Okay, I'm trying to get my head wrapped around it still. Please bear with me...

Worms don't have a digestive tracts but they are consuming more than slime aren't they? Those castings don't look like slime balls to me? Maybe slime/compost balls?


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## Wetdog (Aug 18, 2013)

Of course they have a digestive tract, sort of. They don't have teeth or jaws but do have gizzards, much like a chicken. That's why a bit of sand is needed in the mix, like the shell bits for chickens. So, I guess some sort of solid gets slurped up along with the slime.

Maybe like us eating yogurt? IDK That doesn't come out looking anything like it did going in. Corn does, but that's about all I can think of.

I do know that the faster it rots, the more they like it. Put a melon rind down on top and the next day it looks like a gang of fat people at a $1.99 all-u-can-eat. A big treat for my worms is the 'santa's beard' that grows on top of my alfalfa meal bokashi. It seldom lasts for more than a day.

Wet


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## Crab Pot (Aug 18, 2013)

Thanks for the laugh Wet... gotta love the worm humor... LOL

I had to google "worm digestive tract" to refresh my poor memory. Here is a line that I read earlier today from the old vermin-cast website. "From there the food moves to the gizzard where the soil is ground up with little stones, releasing organic matter."

I'm interested in making bokashi. Isn't it a type of anaerobic composting to get sort of an extracted, syrupy mess of plant nutrition?


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## Wetdog (Aug 18, 2013)

Sort of and I didn't care for it at all, kinda gross.

What I did was make Bokashi Bran using alfalfa meal instead of wheat bran and would sprinkle this on top of food added to the bedding and some into the cans I save coffee grounds in. Sometimes by itself. It's all good.

Do a search on this forum, I posted some you tube links a few years back. If you decide to do it and when you get the stuff together, I'll let you know what I did to make the alfalfa meal work.

Wet


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## Rrog (Aug 19, 2013)

I did the Bokashi over the winter. Worms loved it. It's just an initial breakdown that makes a lot of worm food.


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## Crab Pot (Aug 19, 2013)

Okay... I'll look into Wet and let you know... thanks!


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## NickNasty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thought I would throw up my version of the stackable trays. I had some compost ready to add so I thought I would give my worm farm a sieve and ended up with about 25 gal of castings.
 

Here are my stackable trays I just made this a week or so ago and have only 1 side filled but my worms seem to love it.


Right now its holding about 40 gal of compost with both sides full should be able to hold 80 gal and of course I can add more trays on top if I need too.
Total cost of the trays and stand was under 100$


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## Rrog (Aug 29, 2013)

Chrissakes NN- Some people talk the talk. Not you for shits sake. Jesus H chrispies!

Seriously, man. I'd tip my hat if I could find the mutherfukin icon. You could sell that you know. I wish *someone* would make and sell this stuff *R*


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Sep 3, 2013)

I put in tiny red worms from this big waterlogged soil/weed bucket into my soon-to-be compost bin. Am I wrong in thinking that these are the composting type. Was gonna buy some but the price seemed ridiculous + read people saying get from soil. Dont tell me I have to get them out


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## Rrog (Sep 3, 2013)

Probably fine, but some worms are better suited for composting. Not sure what you have there.


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## turnip brain (Sep 4, 2013)

NickNasty said:


> Thought I would throw up my version of the stackable trays. I had some compost ready to add so I thought I would give my worm farm a sieve and ended up with about 25 gal of castings.
> View attachment 2797128
> 
> Here are my stackable trays I just made this a week or so ago and have only 1 side filled but my worms seem to love it.
> ...


Nice work, So is there some kind of bottom divider in each tray?


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## NickNasty (Sep 4, 2013)

Yeah there is hardware cloth on the bottom of each. It allows the worms to migrate but for the most part the compost/worm castings stay in place.


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## Rising Moon (Sep 4, 2013)

So glad to see my thread alive and thriving! It makes me smile.

Rock on RIU.

Keep those worms well fed, dont forget the botanical herbs!


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## Rrog (Sep 4, 2013)

OK Moon! Did he just say herb?


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## turnip brain (Sep 4, 2013)

Rising Moon said:


> So glad to see my thread alive and thriving! It makes me smile.
> 
> Rock on RIU.
> 
> Keep those worms well fed, dont forget the botanical herbs!


My own worm bin is doing pretty darn well these days though not the production of some posting to this thread. At least there is a self sustaining population now and they are behaving like the bin is home. This is after complete failure with the first two bins, and a seriously died off majority with this one before new worms started hatching.


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## Rrog (Sep 4, 2013)

I think Moon said herb...


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## NickNasty (Sep 5, 2013)

Thought I would add when you harvest castings you tend to harvest the worm cocoons too because they are roughly the same size. So if you are trying to increase your population in your worm bin and not in your plants once you have harvested your worm castings put your castings/cocoons in a tray in a warmer room and put a chunk of melon or manure or really whatever worms really love eating in one corner. Over the next few days the cocoons will start to hatch and the baby worms will start swarming the food then you just add them back to your bin. Worms prefer 65 degrees to mate or if stressed (fluffing your soil, etc.) they also like to mate and 85 degrees for hatching cocoons.


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## Crab Pot (Sep 9, 2013)

NN- 

I recently read the book that you mentioned earlier in this thread, "Beyond Compost". It certainly helped me to get a better understanding of the VermiComposting process. I'm interested in building a system with either the bakery trays or wood bins, like yours. Anyway, I was hoping to get an update on your system. How is it working for you and do you have a collection pan on the base to collect VermiJuice?


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## NickNasty (Sep 9, 2013)

Its working good, I do have a pan on the bottom its just a cement tray but you can use anything. The only thing I would change on mine is I would like to have handles either cut in or attached and I am going to add felt pads to the corners of each tray to give a little more air exchange. I have only run water thru it once hasn't needed more then that I ran 2 gallons thru and got about 1/2 gal back a few days later.


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Sep 10, 2013)

Is rotten shit ok for the wormys? I have one of them brown paper composting bags filled with scraps, though it was left a while, mould on the outside


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## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 10, 2013)

Rising Moon said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> I thought the Organic section could use a *dedicated thread about all things WORMS!
> *
> ...



Subbed cant believe I couldn't find this earlier in the year........most recently I find myself buying Canadian crawlers for vermicompost instead of for fishing for smallies! I have (at last count) three dozen in around a yard of compost. By yard I mean truckload square yard! I feed that dirt all my table scraps. Tjis has been going ok so far. I have 13 pages of thread to read before I post again lmao! Excellent thread op thankyou for takin the time.


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## Rrog (Sep 10, 2013)

Weed Kills- I'd avoid the mold


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## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 10, 2013)

Ok guys im all ears for your insight on these Canadian crawlers I use, no they aint red wigglers, tbh most of them are about a foot long! There monsters! I have around 48 of em in that soil of which half is covered and the other is exposed to 4 hours of sunlight a day. If this has been in vain no worries ill start over with a different set-up for winter anywho! Was 39 degree's here last night time to start thinking about old man winter!


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## Rrog (Sep 10, 2013)

The red wigglers are sure known to be excellent composters. If I was doing the worm bin, I'd get the red wigglers.


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## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 10, 2013)

Agreed, I cant have these big fat crawlers getting lazy on me when I need serious ruffage breakdown! Red wigglers I say! Ha ha I played with worms and dirt when I was a kid, whodathunk i'd be loving it even more as an adult?


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## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 10, 2013)

[video=youtube_share;zhMbsN_iaXQ]http://youtu.be/zhMbsN_iaXQ[/video] ha ha!


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## VTMi'kmaq (Sep 10, 2013)

Had to share these to use my first mistake as a guide for WHAT NOT TO DO. Lesson 1. DONT FEED THOSE WIGGLERS MEATs OR FATS! I made a horrible mistake with this. [video=youtube_share;CCfzOxkEEL8]http://youtu.be/CCfzOxkEEL8[/video]


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## JRTokin (Sep 10, 2013)

Ok guys great thread. Id just like to add that its easy to make a HUGE worm farm out of an old bathtub. Link can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvIWLu3o5OY

I like this guys vids very easy to watch and self explainatory. Gonna try and copy this idea in the back yard and hopefully get some great compost and teas going  Im sure the girls will love this stuff. Happy days. Keep it natural

Peace, love and happy growing


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## Crab Pot (Sep 10, 2013)

NN-
How about a 2"x2"x6" piece of wood screwed down on two opposite sides of each tray, for your handles... would that work?


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Sep 10, 2013)

Rrog said:


> Weed Kills- I'd avoid the mold


ok whoops. guess this is about to get messy... thanks


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## NickNasty (Sep 10, 2013)

Crab Pot said:


> NN-
> How about a 2"x2"x6" piece of wood screwed down on two opposite sides of each tray, for your handles... would that work?



Yeah that would work and much more labor/cost effective. Thanks!


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## Crab Pot (Sep 12, 2013)

I put 5 gallons of BuffaLoam Compost and about two pounds of worms in a Smartie yesterday. I was hoping that this will make some great castings but I'm not sure the worms are doing well. Last night they were attempting to escape and today they seem to be all huddled along the sides of the smartie, with a few dead worms in the medium. What do you guys think... should I rescue the worms or will they adjust??


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## SpicySativa (Sep 12, 2013)

Crab Pot- If that Buffaloam is actually finished compost, it isn't going to offer much sustenance for your worms. They'd much prefer something fresher (fruits, veggies, leaves, etc).


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## Crab Pot (Sep 12, 2013)

No, you're right Spicy, the only thing the BuffaLoam did was kill the worms. The ones that survived I place in another bin but I could only find about a third of a pound of worms left alive.


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## SpicySativa (Sep 12, 2013)

Another possibility -- Deworming medicines given to cows are very persistent. That just might have been the secret ingredient inyour Buffaloam that the worms weren't fond of.


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## TreeOfLiberty (Sep 12, 2013)

My home made 4 stack worm bin and worm casting harvester.


Worm bin is made out of 1x6 wood 16 x 24 bins using lathe strips to interlock the bins from sliding off. Worm bin stand is made out of 2x4's and OSB plywood bottom standing 18 high. Worm bin lid is OSB also. Worm bins screen is 1/4 stapled to the bottom of the 16 x 24 bins. 


Worm casting harvester that keeps most of the worms inside the spinning bucket while turning by hand is a simple 5 gallon HD bucket sawed into with 4 lathe strips for braces stapled to inside of bucket. A wooden curtain rod is drilled thru the end of the bottom of the bucket and thru the bucket lid which slides down the curtain rod. I used the same 1/4 screen mesh to wrap around the bucket as I used on the bottom of the worm bins. It is also stapled into the bucket. Staples are filed down in the inside of bucket to keep worms from being impaled on them. Sterilite 45 gallon tote is used with notches cut into each end so curtain rod will turn easy by hand and stay in place. 



I have a Gusanito worm bin that's black with 6 levels giving me 10 trays altogether. I ordered it off the internet, didn't think it was special enough to post. I take a lot of pride in my home made stuff since I made it by hand.

I use blender ground egg shells to keep the PH of the worm bin from dropping below 6.3 but will use coffee grounds very sparingly to keep the PH from getting above 7.0 PH. 

I keep a 6 page paper shredder for shredding newspaper for worm bin bedding. I use apple peelings, carrots , banana peels, celery , and the pulp left over from my juicer. I use 2 different brands of PH soil tester probes testing them against each other and they always come up the same number so I know they give me the right PH number when testing my worm castings. I like to harvest a bin when it's right at 6.5 PH.


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## Crab Pot (Sep 13, 2013)

SpiceySativa- BuffaLoam is organic. It wouldn't contain deworming medicine... would it? 

BuffaLoam was recommeded by CC several different times in the ICMag ROLS tread. It killed my worms in 24 hours?!?!?


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## Rrog (Sep 13, 2013)

Ivermectin is a common wormer and has a 7-14 day lifespan after the animal shits. I tried to look this up a bit and most convo is about Ivermectin. Not sure what's used with commercial cattle or dairy


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## Crab Pot (Sep 13, 2013)

Now I'm nervous to use the BuffaLoam compost (even in the veggie garden). It seems to me that if the worms died in there... how can microorganisms possibly live in there?? 

The compost is really dry out of the bag. The only thing that I did was hydrate the compost with Aloe Tea before adding the worms.


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## SpicySativa (Sep 13, 2013)

Crab Pot said:


> SpiceySativa- BuffaLoam is organic. It wouldn't contain deworming medicine... would it?
> 
> BuffaLoam was recommeded by CC several different times in the ICMag ROLS tread. It killed my worms in 24 hours?!?!?


It still could contain deworming medicine, along with a variety of other persistant nasties (pesticides, broadleaf herbicides, etc). Do a google search on "contaminated compost" and you'll find that this is a very real issue with commercial product.

As far as I know, compost can be called organic once it's been "composted"; doesn't seem to matter much what the inputs were. For example, compost made from municiple green waste is commonly labelled as organic. It's made from people's yard waste, and we aall know people love to spray their yards with all manor of toxic substances.


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## Crab Pot (Sep 13, 2013)

Interesting... I didn't know that inorganic matter could be turned into organic matter... lol...

This kind of stuff really pisses me off!! As a consumer, I buy 'Organic', but who knows if what I get is really organic or not. The same goes with 'wild fish'... who the hell knows? When there is money to be made... some people will do anything.

I sent an e-mail off to BuffaLoam and I will let you know their response is.


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## Rrog (Sep 13, 2013)

They expressed concern in Teaming With Microbes regarding the use of animal manure. Only because of the antibiotics and wormers. Microbes will degrade a lot of these and I seem to recall that they are generally accepted as OK. Many pesticides are broken down eventually through microbial action.

There are some molecules that can persist, obviously.


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## SpicySativa (Sep 13, 2013)

Yeah, you just never know... A little extra motivation to invest the time and create your own humus. I harvested another 10 gallons of black gold from my bins just last weekend.


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## Rrog (Sep 13, 2013)

No question your own VermiCompost will wipe out all contenders. Nothing better, and your worms made it... from your scraps. I just love saying that.


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## kristobal (Sep 18, 2013)

Helo i have a wormbin do you think i can put my casting as a mulch a month before harvest ?
even if i have red mites on my compost ?


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## turnip brain (Sep 18, 2013)

Regarding ***-"cides" in worm bins, I have a serious gnat problem in my bin. I have treated with judicious amounts of BT, but didn't do much at all. So have added a light spray of spinosad and heavier amount of BT. Still a lot of gnats, but seems a bit reduced population. Trying to take it slow with amounts, but the worms still seems just fine. Wondering about resorting to a full drench of spinosad. Any experience here?


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## Rrog (Sep 18, 2013)

Same with any soil:

Here's my arsenal for pests:

#1 Vermicompost. Fresh stuff will help protect both the soil and leaves. 

#2 Neem Meal- Also good nutritionally when it decomposes, this is a great pest suppressant, especially in its whole form. http://www.neemresource.com

#3 BTI dunks Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis bacteria. Mosquito dunks. Any hardware store has mosquito dunks. These feed on larvae. http://www.thatpetplace.com/mosquito-bits-larvicide-36oz?gdftrk=gdfV2226_a_7c268_a_7c6967_a_7c196070&ne_ppc_id=1463&ne_key_id=26452429&gclid=CLTRrJ_2gLkCFYxcMgodrQsA8A

#4 Nematodes- These will travel around in search of larvae to infect and explode. http://www.naturescontrol.com/thrip.html#pn

#5 Crab Shell- The shell contains chitin. This attracts bacteria that eat chitin, and these bacteria multiply like crazy. Larvae have jawbones made of chitin. Bacteria then eat the jawbones. Shell releases a lot of great minerals and Calcium also. www.OrganicGrowers.com


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## turnip brain (Sep 18, 2013)

Thanks Rrog, 

A little confused about #1 vermicompost in your list there. That's what is in the bin already isn't it?

I forgot that I was considering ladies in red, and I'll add neem and crab shell to the shopping list.


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## Rrog (Sep 18, 2013)

That's my standard cut and paste response regarding initial pest prevention. 

Neem will act quickly. Crab takes a while to do its thing. Are you soaking the BTI Dunks or otherwise getting them in a moist environment to activate them?


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## turnip brain (Sep 18, 2013)

Rrog said:


> Are you soaking the BTI Dunks or otherwise getting them in a moist environment to activate them?


I started just adding crumbled dunk to the bin, then same with BT granules. No visible effect

Latest tactic just a few days ago, soaked a handful of granules and lightly drenched the bin with the water.


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## jcmjrt (Sep 18, 2013)

Oh, I see there are two threads on this...I answered in the other one...but really said mostly what Rrog did...

Homemade worm castings are pretty incredible and the more I learn and the longer the soil/worm bin continues, the better it gets.


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## Crab Pot (Sep 18, 2013)

From my experience, over-feeding is a sure way to get a gnat infestation (too much food = gnat infestation). 

Remove the food in the worm bin until the gnat infestation is under control and coverup any remnants of food with castings, compost or bedding. The BTI take care of the larva over time. Spinosad will poison/kill the microbes that your worms are feeding on... You don't need it. Use a sprinkle of diatomaceous earth (DE) over the content of the bin. DE is sharp and causes cuts and serious wounds on the adult gnats. DE is effective when dry but not when wet and DE won't cause harm to your worms. DE consists largely of silca.

After the gnat infestation is under control start feeding the worms slowly, hiding the food under/inside castings, compost or bedding and look for the correct balance of bedding, compost, castings and food.

The most important thing that I did to improve the balance in my worm bin was to add homemade compost. The worms feed on the compost, sleep in the compost and gnats aren't attracted to the compost.


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## turnip brain (Sep 18, 2013)

jcmjrt said:


> Oh, I see there are two threads on this...I answered in the other one...but really said mostly what Rrog did...
> 
> Homemade worm castings are pretty incredible and the more I learn and the longer the soil/worm bin continues, the better it gets.


Not really, the other thread is about re-amending a soil mix. This is about the worms, Really appreciate your replies in both cases.


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## turnip brain (Sep 18, 2013)

Crab Pot said:


> Spinosad will poison/kill the microbes that your worms are feeding on...


Can you point me to references for this? I've read pretty in depth about spinosad and have not found any evidence/discussion to back up this statement other than conjecture.


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## Crab Pot (Sep 18, 2013)

I started a lactobacillus culture last night, which I plan to use to make bokashi. This is my first attempt. I was just going to throw food scraps in a 5 gallon bucket, add the culture, put the top on the bucket and give it a few weeks. Is this a good method?

Wetdog- You offered to help me out with a bokashi recipe, using alfalfa as I recall?


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## Rrog (Sep 18, 2013)

Give that a whirl and see. If you can fill the container, press down to remove air, and place a lid on this, it will go anaerobic. Just what you want.


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## hyroot (Sep 18, 2013)

I just picked up some worms. But I'm not going to be home til later tonight I have to leave them in the car for a bit. Will they be ok in this heat . Please answer. Not a single one of my questions have been answered in this thread.


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## turnip brain (Sep 18, 2013)

Bently warns of trouble above 86F: http://www.redwormcomposting.com/worm-composting/importance-of-monitoring-temperature/


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## turnip brain (Sep 18, 2013)

And another source says same:

http://red-worms-composting-bin.weebly.com/

BTW, just doing the google search to find these.


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## hyroot (Sep 18, 2013)

Thanks TB. All I could find is too high to low temps will kill them but nothing specific. On uncle jims site, it says they can with stand high heat if they have plenty of oxygen.


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## Crab Pot (Sep 18, 2013)

turnip- Seems to me that since spinosad is indicated to kill/harm certain insects, including fungus gnats and their larva (?) that it's going to poison/kill/damage the microbes?? But... yes... that is my opinion.

The point of my previous post was that, if the conditions are balanced in your worm bin you're not going to have gnats.. therefore... I personally don't see an indication for using spinosad do you?


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## turnip brain (Sep 18, 2013)

The info I have found is that spinosad only targets certain groups of insects through their nervous system. (Unfortunately this includes hymenoptera, so not good for declining bee populations, but my use is not in their environment). I have found specific references that it does not harm worms. I have searched and found nothing indicating it will harm microbes or otherwise harm soil. Spinosad has tested as not harmful to mammals at high levels of exposure and is approved for use on organic fruits and vegetables right up to the point of harvest. I am not worried about its toxicity and I want to get rid of these friggin gnats now infesting all our houseplants, and the worm bin.

If there are any concerns about Spinosad that I don't know that are factual, I want to know. 

Most thorough single reference I know of: http://www.lbamspray.com/Reports/spinosad_final.pdf

From this:

"Effects of spinosad on earthworms and soil microorganisms have been performed in the laboratory. Results indicated that application rates of 540 g/ha should not cause significant effect on soil microflora respirations. Both 
spinosad and the Tracer formulation demonstrated safety for earthworms."


And it would seem that introduced to microbial rich soil, Spinosad breaks down rather quickly: 

"spinosyns A and D both are highly persistent, but only when applied to pre-sterilized soils. Otherwise, the half-life of 9-17 days presents an acceptable persistence profile. Theoretically, if spinosyns A and D are used in organic production systems, the soils would not be pre-sterilized and thus would contain sufficient microbial activity to break down the pesticide quickly."

Then the conclusion does state "certain uses might be harmful to beneficial organisms" but there is nothing factual in the paper to back this up. Once again, seems just a supposition. 

In an ideal word, sure, I'd rather not have to control the gnats at all, but I do have them. They are a serious nuisance at this point.

has


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## Crab Pot (Sep 18, 2013)

Hyroot- Keep the worms out of the direct sun. You might even try insulating them with a blanket or something to keep the heat off of them for the time your gone. Grap a bottle of cold water and put it next to them to keep the temperature around them cooler. If they get too hot the worms sweat and loose moisture.


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## hyroot (Sep 18, 2013)

I'm home worms are still kickin. I'm making a ghetto bin. 30gal sterilite totes are $8 each at home deps. Left my drill at a homies. So using my crkt pazoda knife and a screw driver wooty woot.

was back in town for the day and picked up some bu's blend compost from oc farm supply. They recently started carrying all malibu products. Never tried the bu's blend. But cann loves it.

edit:

I think some of them died. They are not moving at all. They were in a breathable bag that held moisture and the bag was in Chinese food to go box. There was plenty of moisture in the bag. Plus a little castings. The date written on the box was 5 days ago. I don't think they were in that box for that long. I don't know. Maybe I should order vermipods next time. Or order worms from uncle jims.


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## NickNasty (Sep 19, 2013)

Still put them in the ones that are still alive will repopulate. You will know in a couple of days if you need more or not.


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## SpicySativa (Sep 19, 2013)

hyroot said:


> I'm home worms are still kickin. I'm making a ghetto bin. 30gal sterilite totes are $8 each at home deps. Left my drill at a homies. So using my crkt pazoda knife and a screw driver wooty woot.
> 
> was back in town for the day and picked up some bu's blend compost from oc farm supply. They recently started carrying all malibu products. Never tried the bu's blend. But cann loves it.
> 
> ...


Hyroot - Stop by your local fishing tackle shop. The "Red Worms" they sell as bait are the same eisenia fetida that you want in your worm bin. At about $2.00 for 50 worms, you can get a bin started for about $10. They reproduce QUICKLY when the conditions are right. I started mine up this way and now have two bins cranking out castings. Next harvest I'll split it to 3 bins.


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## SpicySativa (Sep 19, 2013)

A quick comment on pesticide use in the worm bin... Clearly the fungus gnats love the conditions you are providing them. If you don't change the conditions, they WILL come back. Not only that, the ones that survive the Spinosad assault will be the strong ones, which will then reproduce a pile of strong offspring.

Whether you chose to dose your bin with pesticides or not, you MUST address the conditions that are inviting pests in the first place.


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## turnip brain (Sep 19, 2013)

SpicySativa said:


> A quick comment on pesticide use in the worm bin... Clearly the fungus gnats love the conditions you are providing them. If you don't change the conditions, they WILL come back. Not only that, the ones that survive the Spinosad assault will be the strong ones, which will then reproduce a pile of strong offspring.
> 
> Whether you chose to dose your bin with pesticides or not, you MUST address the conditions that are inviting pests in the first place.



I don't deny that at all. Problem is, I still don't know in what way the current conditions are conducive to gnat infestation. So not knowing what MUST be addressed, does not solve any problem. There are as many opinions as people who post in response to these things, there are many people with worms who feed them differently, use different bedding, different containers, etc etc that there are NO clear answers, just a bunch of well meaning folks who do things differently with varying degrees of success. As a result, what I end up doing remains experimental.

Anyway, I did a moderate drench with BT rather than just adding granules to the bin, and sprayed top bedding with spinosad a few days ago. Today there are only several gnats active when I open the top.


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## hyroot (Sep 19, 2013)

SpicySativa said:


> Hyroot - Stop by your local fishing tackle shop. The "Red Worms" they sell as bait are the same eisenia fetida that you want in your worm bin. At about $2.00 for 50 worms, you can get a bin started for about $10. They reproduce QUICKLY when the conditions are right. I started mine up this way and now have two bins cranking out castings. Next harvest I'll split it to 3 bins.


I tried that route. The only tackle place I could find that sold red wigglers is in Devore. That's so far away in the wrong direction too. At least a 2 -3 hour drive. Other places carry other worms. But no red worms. I paid $14 for a pound of worms. My other bin . I pulled then all out of my avocado planter before I moved. I left it behind. They probably got in the planter from eggs in store bought castings.


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## Rrog (Sep 19, 2013)

There are going to be adults flying around for a while, as anything you've done does not affect adults.


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## hyroot (Sep 19, 2013)

Correct me if I'm wrong. But if your bin gets a little out of wack. Too much food or decaying matter... Won't there be an abundance of predatory mites. That happened with my first bin. There were millions of them. Eventually they died off. Didn't bothor the worms. The predatory mites will eat the gnats and larva given time. That's how I solved my gnat problem in my pots in the flower room years ago. Topdressed with compost that had predatory mites. Adult flyers only live for a week or so.


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## Rrog (Sep 19, 2013)

I amend the VC as I do the soil. So Crab, Nematodes, BTI and Neem. Along with Kelp, minerals, meals, etc. Worm bins are as free of pests as the soil is. Both have good guys helping to digest the compost.


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## hyroot (Sep 19, 2013)

I tried bti for gnats way back when. It didn't work for shit. I tried bti on my buddies outdoor this year. He has bud worms and Jorge Cervantes swears by it. It didn't do shit. I told homie jokingly to use a pressure washer on his outdoor...


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## turnip brain (Sep 19, 2013)

hyroot said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong. But if your bin gets a little out of wack. Too much food or decaying matter... Won't there be an abundance of predatory mites. That happened with my first bin. There were millions of them. Eventually they died off. Didn't bothor the worms. The predatory mites will eat the gnats and larva given time. That's how I solved my gnat problem in my pots in the flower room years ago. Topdressed with compost that had predatory mites. Adult flyers only live for a week or so.


I had major mite infestation on a previous bin which failed and perished. I do not think they were "predatory" however. I learned that time to not overfeed. This bin has no such mite problem.


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## Rrog (Sep 19, 2013)

Most pests require a system to control, not a single item. One item is so-so, but hit them from multiple sides and you're successful.

BTI is lab-proven to do its thing, assuming the pest is matched to the BTI. Fungus gnat larvae will be affected by BTI. Other larvae are left unaffected, like Root Aphids.


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## turnip brain (Sep 19, 2013)

Rrog said:


> I amend the VC as I do the soil. So Crab, Nematodes, BTI and Neem. Along with Kelp, minerals, meals, etc. Worm bins are as free of pests as the soil is. Both have good guys helping to digest the compost.


I've followed up and been ;looking up most of the suggestions. Neem and nematodes seem like good bets. Already supplement the worms with kelp, rock dust, and some other compost. The bin and the worms are mostly pretty darn healthy overall. That's not an issue.


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## hyroot (Sep 19, 2013)

Nematodes are emo. They are very sensitive lol. They can die off quickly if its too hot or cold or a drastic temp change happens.


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## hyroot (Sep 19, 2013)

turnip brain said:


> I had major mite infestation on a previous bin which failed and perished. I do not think they were "predatory" however. I learned that time to not overfeed. This bin has no such mite problem.



predatory mites are the red little guys. They are beneficial. They eat decaying matter and bugs and larva. Then die off when their food source is gone. The bad mites are yellow and brown. They eat chlorophyll. The bad ones are attracted to heat.


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## SpicySativa (Sep 19, 2013)

Turnip - 

Here are a few key pieces that have helped me avoid worm bin pests. I agree there are many ways to go about it, but this is what has worked for me.

* Keep a 6" layer of completely dry bedding material on top of the moist "working" layer of the bin. The Bedding I use is a mixture of shredded brown paper bags, cardboard, and newspaper plus some dry leaves. When you feed, push this dry layer aside, bury your food under a thin layer of the moist material that's under your dry bedding, then replace the dry bedding on top.

* Keep the lid off your bin so that your top layer of bedding stays dry. If you put the lid on, the moisture will even out much like it does in the cure jar.

* Keep a couple quart-sized yogurt containers in the freezer. As you generate food waste, put it in the yogurt containers in the freezer. When it's full, take it out and let it thaw (I pull it out in the morning before work, then feed when I get home). This freeze/thaw cycle kills any eggs that may have been on your fruit peels, etc, and softens things up. The worms process pre-frozen food MUCH quicker, which really helps prevent pests.

*Periodically (about once a month), I add some neem, crab meal, and mosquito dunk (about 1 TBSP of each). I mash them to a powder with my mortar and pestle, sprinkle underneath the dry bedding layer, and scratch it in a little with my fingers.

After you're bin has been up and running for a while you should start seeing various mites show up. My bins now support healthy populations of both predatory (hypoaspis miles; brown/tan, fast-moving) and non-predatory (brown, red, white, or tan; slow-moving) mites. The predatory mites graze on the non-predatory mites until some unlucky pest shows up. You will not find any harmful mites in your worm bin (mites that eat plants seek out plants, not decaying organic material).

Anyway, this is what works for me in my Rubbermaid bins. Give it a shot and let us know how it goes.


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## NickNasty (Sep 19, 2013)

Here are a couple places to get hypoaspis miles they are predator mites and will eat the fungus gnat larva I have these in my soil and rarely see gnats.

[video=youtube;KEhSjRiEnnI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEhSjRiEnnI[/video]

http://www.everwoodfarm.com/Organic_Pest_Control/Beneficial_Insects_Listing/ENTOMITE-M_Hypoaspis_miles?gclid=CN7zwJPz17kCFctcMgod8ngAEw
http://www.evergreengrowers.com/stratiolaelaps-scimitus-182.html


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## Rrog (Sep 19, 2013)

Coolest vid of the day, right there NN!!!


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## SpicySativa (Sep 19, 2013)

Awesome video! I've watched that happen in my worm bin. It's amazing how ferocious those little buggers are.


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## hyroot (Sep 23, 2013)

Apparently rotten corn on the cob smells like dank skunky weed


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Sep 23, 2013)

hyroot said:


> Apparently rotten corn on the cob smells like dank skunky weed


i have broccoli stalk that smells like shit


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## Crab Pot (Oct 10, 2013)

It's my first time making bokashi. The lactobacillus culture that I've been making is close to being finished and I have a 50lb bag of red wheat bran. Can someone describe the process for properly inoculating the bran, storing the bran and using the bran please? I plan on using the finished bokashi in the worm bin.


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## WeedKillsBrainCells (Oct 12, 2013)

Crab Pot said:


> It's my first time making bokashi. The lactobacillus culture that I've been making is close to being finished and I have a 50lb bag of red wheat bran. Can someone describe the process for properly inoculating the bran, storing the bran and using the bran please? I plan on using the finished bokashi in the worm bin.


So bokashi does/can involve lactobacillus? Cuz I just watched a vid on making that the other day. sounded pretty good stuff for like keeping general nasties out of water, stopping algae growth in small doses etc. is it really that helpful? a question for a question sry, just couldnt find much about it


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## hyroot (Oct 14, 2013)

Will worms eat basil stems? I just pulled a basil a plant. Using the leaves for cooking food. I didn't just want to toss the stems. I can't find anything specific on composting basil.


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## Wetdog (Oct 14, 2013)

Crab Pot said:


> It's my first time making bokashi. The lactobacillus culture that I've been making is close to being finished and I have a 50lb bag of red wheat bran. Can someone describe the process for properly inoculating the bran, storing the bran and using the bran please? I plan on using the finished bokashi in the worm bin.


Go to you tube and search bokashi bran, several videos. I used the one by PodChef, but that was several years ago and there are more recent ones.

Wet


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## NickNasty (Oct 15, 2013)

hyroot said:


> Will worms eat basil stems? I just pulled a basil a plant. Using the leaves for cooking food. I didn't just want to toss the stems. I can't find anything specific on composting basil.


I don't see why not if they dont it will just compost on its own. Maybe give it a rough chop just to help it along.


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## SpicySativa (Oct 15, 2013)

I worm binned all my basil plant scraps earlier this year after they were done for the season. The worms liked them just fine.

With the "pocket feeding" method, you don't really have to worry much about upsetting the worms. If they don't like something you feed them, they'll just let it sit until it's composted to their satisfaction, then mounge it...


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## hyroot (Oct 15, 2013)

Spicy do you dry out the basil or freeze them? I dry out dandelions and leaves. I freeze veggie scraps. I puree or shred everything. I have 3 little containers in the freezer with veggie scraps now. And a paper bag filled with canna leaves and dandelions.


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## SpicySativa (Oct 16, 2013)

The Basil and dandilions I just pluck from the ground (roots and all) and bury in in the bin. I figure I'm adding a little microbial diversity each time I introduce a little healthy soil from my outdoor veggie garden or "lawn" (I use that term loosely...). The worms have no problem munching them whole, it just might take a little longer.

As for the fruit and veggie scraps from the kitchen, I freeze those. I keep a couple quart-sized yogurt containers in the freezer to store food waste until I'm ready to feed. I don't worry much about chopping or grinding. The freeze/thaw cycle turns most scraps to mush anyway. If I have something a little bigger (like an apple stored past it's prime), I'll sometimes give it a little whack with a hammer to bust it up before I thaw it. 

As an added bonus, freezing also kills any fungus gnat or fruit fly eggs that might be hitching a ride to the bin with your fruit peels.


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## SpicySativa (Oct 16, 2013)

As for the cannabis leaves, I usually bury some fresh and spread the rest over the top of the bedding to dry. Once they're dry, it's easy to crumble them down a little.

I'm out of town for work right now, but I can snap some pics of my setup when I get home. It's not fancy (at all), but it works very well.

Gotta love organic growing with big 10 gallon pots... Try leaving a hydro garden unattended for 5 days without any worries!


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## Javadog (Oct 23, 2013)

SpicySativa said:


> My worms eat:
> 
> -Fruit and veggie scraps (chopped about pea sized and frozen)
> 
> ...


Subbed up.

I was going to ask about crustacean shells making chitin eating bacteria
being a problem for good worms, but then I did my homework and 
confirmed that they do not have teeth. :0) So, after deleting that novella, 
I just wrote "Subbed up". 

Take care all,

JD


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## RedCarpetMatches (Oct 24, 2013)

Great thread with what might be the most important organic info. Thanks to everyone for sharing your knowledge and ideas. I'm sick of buying shit. I read people using newspaper, but don't the colors have harmful dyes? Would peat moss as a bedding be too acidic? Do you have to pick out all the worms and eggs to harvest? Rep for answers!!!


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## SpicySativa (Oct 24, 2013)

RedCarpetMatches said:


> Great thread with what might be the most important organic info. Thanks to everyone for sharing your knowledge and ideas. I'm sick of buying shit. I read people using newspaper, but don't the colors have harmful dyes? Would peat moss as a bedding be too acidic? Do you have to pick out all the worms and eggs to harvest? Rep for answers!!!


What's up RedCarpetMatches? Your name cracks me up! I keep reading it as "RedCarpetMunchers"... Guess my mind is in the gutter this morning...

Anyway, I agree. Producing your own worm castings is the single most beneficial thing you can do for your organic garden. If you get your soil's compost/humus content dialed in, the rest just seems to fall into place effortlessly. Really makes gardening SOOO much easier and more enjoyable.

Back to your questions...

- Most big newspapers these days are printed with vegetable or soy-based inks (both color and black/white); these ones are just fine to use in the bin. Give your local paper quick phone call and see what kind of ink they use. 

- Another good free/cheap source of bedding material is brown paper grocery bags. These make up about half of my bedding.

- Peat is OK. I add some now and then. Before I add the peat, I add about 0.5-1 tablespoon dolomite lime per gallon, then soak it in water for an hour or two to hydrate it. Then I squeeze out the excess moisture and lay it in the bin. I wouldn't rrecommend using peat as your only bedding material, but it works well as part of the mix.

- For harvesting the castings, there are lots of ways... I made myself a casting harvester using 1/8" hardware cloth (metal screen/mesh with 1/8" holes). It's basically just a 2'x2' square made of 2x4's with the hardware cloth stapled to it. When I tthink the bin is about ready, I stop feeding it for about 2 weeks to let the worms finish up their meals. Then I screen the material one big handful at a time to separate the worms, majority of the cocoons, and unprocessed bedding from the finished castings. Inevitably some worms and cocoons end up in your finished castings, but that's no problem. If you don't store your castings in a sealed container, the worms will survive, and the cocoons will hatch. If you want, you can screen the finished castings a second time to remove these worms, but I don't worry about it. Many end up in my pots, where they seem happy and healthy.

When I use my castings for making compost tea, I first pour the cup onto a little tray and pick out any worms I see and return them to the bins.


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## st0wandgrow (Oct 24, 2013)

RedCarpetMatches said:


> Great thread with what might be the most important organic info. Thanks to everyone for sharing your knowledge and ideas. I'm sick of buying shit. I read people using newspaper, but don't the colors have harmful dyes? Would peat moss as a bedding be too acidic? Do you have to pick out all the worms and eggs to harvest? Rep for answers!!!


I use coco coir and shredded carboard/brown paper for bedding for the most part. I've used extra bagged soil (peat moss) I had laying around for bedding too, and also used partially composted material from my compost bin outside. The worms don't seem to mind whatever is used. 

Harvesting the castings is the only time consuming part of this. You don't really "pick" the worms out. If I'm harvesting a small amount for a compost tea, I just use a spaghetti strainer and put a handful or two in there and shake it in to a bucket. It only takes a minute or so to get a cups worth of castings. If I'm harvesting a larger amount to re-ammend soil with, I will lay the contents of my worm bin out on to a tarp in a fairly thin layer (no more than 2 inches) with a larger mound of castings/bedding on one side, then turn a bright light on over head. I leave it like that for about an hour. Worms hate bright light, and will move quickly to escape it. What happens is the worms that were in the 2 inch layer will relocate to the larger pile to escape the light, and you're able to just scoop the castings up. There will still be the odd worm that you have to pick out, but the vast majority of them will move. I don't think it's possible to remove the cocoons, though. Every once in a while I find a worm in my potted plants when I dump the soil out, and they're always alive .... so no harm done.


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## Rrog (Oct 24, 2013)

It's just so cool that there are so many worm bin conversations going on. Just means so many people are really stepping up their game and dropping cost. WOW!


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## SpicySativa (Oct 24, 2013)

And keeping THOUSANDS of pounds of organic waste out of landfills, where it not only takes up valuable space, but ends up degrading anaerobically and producing mass quantities of methane gas. 

A win-win situation if I've ever seen one...


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## Pinworm (Oct 24, 2013)

Planning on building a bin here soon, too. Rrog, your thread has been an invaluable source of info, brother. Keep up the killer work. You too, Rising Moon!


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## st0wandgrow (Oct 24, 2013)

Pinworm said:


> Planning on building a bin here soon, too. Rrog, your thread has been an invaluable source of info, brother. Keep up the killer work. You too, Rising Moon!


I listen to everything Rrog has to say. He's a walking encyclopedia when it comes to this stuff, and is always willing to share his knowledge.


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## RedCarpetMatches (Oct 24, 2013)

I'm going to use an 18 gallon tote with air holes and tiny holes on bottom for worm juices...yummy. I'll put that tote inside another tote to catch worm pee tea. Never used BTIs...is it better to soak or crush? Do you put on top moist layer or castings? Thnx for help.


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## SpicySativa (Oct 24, 2013)

BTi is no longer needed now that my bins are cranking. I add neem and crab meal periodically, plus a population of predatory mites moved in. When my bins were still fresh, I had some fungus gnat issues, but now they leave the bins alone.

When I used BTi in the bin, I either soaked a dunk and misted the bin with it or just mashed some up with my mortar and pestle then sprinkled it over the top.


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## Rrog (Oct 24, 2013)

I just take lots of notes and have a big mouth, is all. You guys would all grow circles around me. Guarantee it. I sure appreciate the kindness, though! 

Spicy- Landfills OMG. Gold waiting to turn black. Lots of places have community composting, now. That's pretty freaking cool. Also your local power companies and tree services. That tree chipping can be turned to black gold by using... mushrooms. They eat that shit no prob. And the mushrooms are delicious and very nutritious. This particular mushroom is from Fungi Perfecti. http://www.fungi.com/ Paul Stamets should get the Peace Prize, man.


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## SpicySativa (Oct 24, 2013)

Rrog said:


> I just take lots of notes and have a big mouth, is all. You guys would all grow circles around me. Guarantee it. I sure appreciate the kindness, though!
> 
> Spicy- Landfills OMG. Gold waiting to turn black. Lots of places have community composting, now. That's pretty freaking cool. Also your local power companies and tree services. That tree chipping can be turned to black gold by using... mushrooms. They eat that shit no prob. And the mushrooms are delicious and very nutritious. This particular mushroom is from Fungi Perfecti. http://www.fungi.com/ Paul Stamets should get the Peace Prize, man.


I'm lucky enough to live in a very "progressive" area. We have green bins to collect our yard waste and food scraps, which then get composted. They sell some of the material off to companies who compost it and bag it for resale, and every once in a while they give it away for free to local residents.

I wish all cities were REQUIRED to handle green waste like this...


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## RedCarpetMatches (Oct 24, 2013)

Just ordered 2000 red wigglers!!! If you feed your worms SS amendments, can you use less in your soil?


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## Rrog (Oct 24, 2013)

Yes, and it is much preferred that you feed the amendments to the worms, not the soil. This way, any hot N and other nutrients are all broken down and locked up in the humus and organic matter. No harm at all to the plant.


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## Colorado Sam (Oct 24, 2013)

Thank you all for sharing this great info. Neighbor down the road has horses. Sure he will share the manure. But thanks again for sharing your knowledge.


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## Rrog (Oct 25, 2013)

Horse manure is great. Watch for antibiotics and wormer residue. Aging the stuff will allow microbes to break down what they can.


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## RedCarpetMatches (Oct 26, 2013)

Rrog said:


> Yes, and it is much preferred that you feed the amendments to the worms, not the soil. This way, any hot N and other nutrients are all broken down and locked up in the humus and organic matter. No harm at all to the plant.


Thanks for response as always. I'm really interested in the amendment feeding. Are you saying I can feed my wormies ALL my amendments and not add any to the rest of the SS mix?


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## SpicySativa (Oct 26, 2013)

RedCarpetMatches said:


> Thanks for response as always. I'm really interested in the amendment feeding. Are you saying I can feed my wormies ALL my amendments and not add any to the rest of the SS mix?


Are you talking about Subcool's SS? That mix includes a total of 15 lbs of blood meal, fish bone, and bat guano, but only about 20-30 pounds of worm castings. I don't think that would work out well for the worms...

I do add various ammendments to my worm bin, but definitely not 15 lbs worth in 20-30 lbs of castings. By adding ammendments to the worm bin you end up with higher quality castings, but your still going to want to add some additional ammendments when you mix up the soil.

Might be possible to add all the ammendments to the bin if they are mostly plant-based, but I don't think blood meal or guano would be a good idea.


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## RedCarpetMatches (Oct 26, 2013)

I mix up much smaller batches like 1/4 cup of kelp, alfalfa, neem, etc. per cubic foot. I want to use 1/3 worm poo in final mix. I wouldn't put any guano or blood meal in bin. I was wondering how much the ammendments get broken down.


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## Rrog (Oct 26, 2013)

I think you could work it so your amendments were just your own specially-fortified VermiCompost. Not a commercial bag. Your own. Then you'd just consider using and adding teas.


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## RedCarpetMatches (Oct 30, 2013)

So I set up my 18g sterile container with drain holes and side and top air holes. Fun stuff. My bedding consists of equal parts of shredded newspaper, rinsed coco, rinsed shredded leaves, and Happy frog soil conditioner (has a little guano). On one side I made a long trench and separated mushy apples, coffee grounds, ground up roasted egg shells, and banana peels. The moist bedding is 4 inches high. I added 2 tbsp dolomite lime for steady PH, 1 tbsp crab shell meal, potash, 1 tbsp neem cake, and 1 tbs each of alfalfa and kelp. I ground everything (including egg shells) with a mortar and pestle. After adding 2000 red wiggler tomorrow, I'll cover with moist leaves and cardboard. Anything else I should add...can't really subtract? I don't want to kill 40$ worth of worm so any advice will be cherished forever


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## Rrog (Oct 30, 2013)

Compost. They eat the bacteria on stuff. None of your items have bacteria on them. Compost will. You have any lying around?


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## RedCarpetMatches (Oct 30, 2013)

The leaves don't have bacteria? I know the HF soil conditioner has plenty. I can throw in some bagged EWC just to make sure.


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## Rrog (Oct 30, 2013)

Not sure on the HF. Maybe worms like the strains in the HF. I dunno.

Leaves are excellent. I'd add the castings. Some local clean soil, maybe. You cook any Lacto-b?


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## RedCarpetMatches (Oct 30, 2013)

The rice wash I can do but it takes a while. I'll just make a tea to kick start.


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## Rrog (Oct 30, 2013)

There! Good use for a compost tea!


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## SpicySativa (Oct 30, 2013)

RedCarpetMatches said:


> So I set up my 18g sterile container with drain holes and side and top air holes. Fun stuff. My bedding consists of equal parts of shredded newspaper, rinsed coco, rinsed shredded leaves, and Happy frog soil conditioner (has a little guano). On one side I made a long trench and separated mushy apples, coffee grounds, ground up roasted egg shells, and banana peels. The moist bedding is 4 inches high. I added 2 tbsp dolomite lime for steady PH, 1 tbsp crab shell meal, potash, 1 tbsp neem cake, and 1 tbs each of alfalfa and kelp. I ground everything (including egg shells) with a mortar and pestle. After adding 2000 red wiggler tomorrow, I'll cover with moist leaves and cardboard. Anything else I should add...can't really subtract? I don't want to kill 40$ worth of worm so any advice will be cherished forever


Best ingredient (in my opinion): A handful of healthy soil from outdoors. Actual soil, not some potting mix. This will introduce a vast array of diverse microorganisms as well as beneficial mites, springtails, etc, etc.. It also provides grit for the worm's gizzards. 

Use common sense on this one; you want soil that is currently growing healthy, disease/pest-free plants (native or garden), and hasn't had any chemicals applied.

Compost is a great idea, too, but I'd highly recommend the soil.


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## RedCarpetMatches (Oct 30, 2013)

The pile of leaves has been there for about a year. Of course I scooped all the bottom goodness. Felt like a sandy loam...gritty too da nitty. Also, wouldn't the ground up amendments and eggshells be some good grit for the gizzards.


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## YesMamNoSir (Nov 1, 2013)

Hello! I started my first worm bin today and I think I may have messed up already....I found the perfect plastic bin it was 2x5 8 inches deep. I tore up some cardboard (did not shred) ad layered it on the bottom to help retain moisture.then put some organic spent mushroom compost then a layer of shredded newspaper then on top of that I mixed composted manure and peat. Thisis where I think I fucked up will the composted manure bake them???? Then input some pureed pumpkin and egg shellsin thecorner drilled holes all over..did i fuck up or not is it fixable please help....thanks!!""


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## Rrog (Nov 1, 2013)

If it's composted, then it won't bake. I have to say I feel a little creepy replying to that avatar...


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## snowdog203 (Nov 11, 2013)

I bought a worm tower off Craigslist a couple years ago, the woman who sold it to me was just too squeamish about worms. She said all the worms were dead but there were a few and I added a pint from the Bait shop. Red Wigglers. The bin is thriving with the minimal amount of effort, and I never looked back. I looked up what I could feed them or not, no stinky veggies like broccoli etc, and adding grit for worm heath in the way of pulverized egg shells with my whirly grinder. I collect mostly espresso used grinds and pulverized eggshells with very few veggies mixed in. The worms are great, though right now the fungus gnat has taken over my house. I mistakenly fed the house plants my vermicompost tea and have spread the gnat population to all my potted plants. I do make tea regularly in a 5 gallon bucket with a very small aquarium air pump and a heater with some unsulphered molasses, I use 2 cups of vermicompost a quarter cup of molasses and about 24 to 36 hours of bubbling. The heater is set to I think 68F, I just use it cause I have it and I think it accelerates things. Anyway thought I'd share. Love my worms, and am glad I have them. Years ago (decades) I read about a guy who was recycling apt. building veggie waste in dressers with screens for the bottoms of the drawers and have been meaning to get around to it, glad I have. Funny never hear about the dresser method of creating a worm bin. Though I'd share.....Namiste


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## Rrog (Nov 11, 2013)

Thanks for sharing that! You can make worm bins from anything! I grew great mounds of them in fabric pots (Geopots).


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## CaptainCAVEMAN (Dec 22, 2013)

Bump for organics!


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## foreverflyhi (Dec 22, 2013)

Forgive my lack of terminology, 
what is the black gooey stuff called that collects in the bottom of the bin? 
I use mine about once a month in a larger batch of tea ill occasionally brew. Any reccomendation on dosage?


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## Javadog (Dec 22, 2013)

worm tea I think. It can be strong. Wait for more experienced consensus.

JD


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## hyroot (Dec 22, 2013)

basically worm tea or wet castings. strength depends on what you feed the worms.. I would just mix it in with the castings and let it dry some..


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## Rising Moon (Dec 23, 2013)

Dropping in on my thread, glad to see its still up top and running along...

Keep it going folks, keep your worms happy...

Peace,

Rising Moon


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## crispypb840 (Dec 25, 2013)

I heard of using what they feed baby cattle. Like a formula or something. First you starve them for a little while. Then feed formula on the top layer. They come up to eat it then poo it out really quick. Once that is done you feed them in the corner and they all move from the castings so you can skim the top layer to harvest.


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## yeah B U B B A (Dec 25, 2013)

hi im doing organic as well.. my question is: would it be alright to to add worms directly to my soil and if so what is the best worms to use.?


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## NickNasty (Dec 25, 2013)

Sure all my pots have worms in them it is inevitable if you are using fresh castings. If I were just to use them in my pot I would probably get European Nightcrawlers as they are bigger, tend to go deeper, are more heat tolerant and still do a good job composting. But this is just my best guess I have both red wigglers and euro's in my pots.


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## yeah B U B B A (Dec 25, 2013)

thanks mane.!! im about to go get some..!!


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## yeah B U B B A (Dec 25, 2013)

One let question, how many worms do u have in each pot.?


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## NickNasty (Dec 25, 2013)

??? who knows? My soil is alive they alive. I have no idea because they live breed and die there.


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## yeah B U B B A (Dec 26, 2013)

what will happen to my soil if the worms die in it.?


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## SpicySativa (Dec 26, 2013)

yeah B U B B A said:


> what will happen to my soil if the worms die in it.?


Short answer: Nothing
Long(er) answer: Your soil microbes will decompose (eat) the dead worms and return the nutrients to your soil.


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## Javadog (Dec 26, 2013)

They become food...once last time.

I am afraid that I am killing my first bed with bad food.

I am using coffee grounds now, and hope for improvement.

JD


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## kindgarden (Feb 5, 2014)

Great thread!! I am new to this forum, but have been reading posts and am very thankful to everyone for their sharing of knowledge.

I've had some very positive results over the last 7 months with vermicomposting using littlfe effort, so thought I'd share. I used books "Worms Eat My Garbage", Teaming with Microbes, and Steve Solomon's advice.

I agree with basically all the advice I've seen given on this thread, except for worrying about bugs. Since no crop is being grown, there is little risk to damage from pests. 
I've always seen it balance out (lots of knats, then lots of mites, then nothing for a while, etc.). I personally wouldn't go out of my way to treat worm bin pests other than covering them up with some bedding or cardboard.





(you can't see them because they hide from light and they are covered in dirt, but there are tons, of all different sizes, much more than when I started over 7 months ago.

1. I created a rectangular frame with legs out of 2x4's and attached wheels on the bottom for convenience
2. I purchased a roll of geotextile material (same as smartpot) on amazon, and stapled it around my frame
3. I used moistened peat moss as the medium, but also added random stuff - alfalfa hay, newspaper shreddings, etc.
3.a. I used about 6 inches of peat moss. I have found it useful to have a thick layer, in case of too much heat or dry weather, worms can flock to the center until you find time to remoisturize.
4. Added 1 lb. of Uncle Jim's red wigglers purchased via Amazon.com (this was mailed to me during 90+ degree weather in July and turned out fine)
5. Cover bin with various choices - I've used cannabis leaves, moist bedding, moist cardboard. If it seems to get aneorobic, use a more pourous cover. If too dry, do the opposite.
6. Keep the bin moist periodically via spraying, or pouring water just until it drips out the bottom. Just like a plant - but its not as important to take care of. I've gone weeks without paying attention. Its more important during hot weather
7. I keep a 2 gallon plastic bucket under my sink, and fill it with coffee grounds, egg shells, veggie scraps, etc.
8. I empty the bucket in the bin and cover with bedding whenever I feel like it
9. If I feel I am adding too much of something (too much bread/coffee grounds/citrus) I will put some in my outside compost bin instead.
10. When weather is cool enough, I transport some worms to my outside compost bins

11. Tip: Sometimes I add some bran , hay, or oats, etc. to the top of the worm bin and spray down. Soon after, you see fungi mycelia all over. My understanding is this is great worm food and a good addition to the diversity. I have never heard of doing this in worm bins, but it makes sense to me.

Happy Vermicomposting!!


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## Thedillestpickle (Feb 7, 2014)

I'm just starting up a worm bin, only about a pound of worms so far. 
Has anyone tried using coco peat solely as the bedding material? 

I imagine it would work really well. 
I wonder if it breaks down completely into humus or remains fibrous. 



Also you can add rock powders directly to the bin I have read. 
Are there any other amendments that you would normally add into a soil mix that may be better utilized if first processed through the worms? 

Or maybe a better question is: are there any soil amendments that you should not add to a worm bin? Would adding guano for instance burn and kill your worms?


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## DANKSWAG (Feb 8, 2014)

Hello,

I've started 2 bins myself, check em out.



DankSwag


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## Thedillestpickle (Feb 8, 2014)

DankSwag- 
That looks like it's coming along really nicely. How much worms did you start off with? How long did it take you to get to this phase? I don't see any identifiable bedding material in there; what are you using as bedding?


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## DANKSWAG (Feb 8, 2014)

Thedillestpickle said:


> DankSwag-
> That looks like it's coming along really nicely. How much worms did you start off with? How long did it take you to get to this phase? I don't see any identifiable bedding material in there; what are you using as bedding?



Hello dill,

Ya this just didn't happen over night. In fact I received my worms (UJ's) in December and the mail person delivered them to my mailbox and did not bring them to our door, thought the package said "Live" and Perishable. When I got home from work I found my two pounds of worms in my frozen mailbox. They obviously don't pay postman to read the labels on packages and make prudent decisions, they are only trained to read the mail they take home with them and the only prudent decisions they make is too safely move through traffic and barely that. Sorry for my mail rant. But damn I came home to frozen meal for a freaking crow!

So I took evasive action hoping to rescue any possible survivors to put them to work in my worm camp!
So i placed the shipping box they arrived in about 4 feet away from my wall heater where the warm air blowing on them hoping to revive any comatose worms. I left them for a few hours to accumulate to room temperature. Before introducing them to their new abode. The journey was rough but they found their Zion and they are doing what they do best, eating, shitting and mutiplying!

So as I was awaiting their fateful arrival I was in the process of building their new work camp!

The beginning - A bin was selected for it's wide shallow displacement and it was cheep too! Thanks Lowes!

Drainage holes - Who wants to lay in their pee it's bad enough to crawl through their own shit! 
Obviously if worm pee allowed to sit not healthy for worms nor compost if bad bacteria where no air gets to starts to build


Air holes for needed oxygen- These I placed just under the rim so no light shines through but air will flow.


Furnishings for my worm labor camp. Want them to be comfortable while eating, shitting and multiplying! Only the best for my worms, besides it will be my plants soil too.
I think I have a country worm is that straw I see?


Enrichment - Treating the furnishings to a nice soak in alfalfa and kelp.


Layering - After a good soak over night I drained excess water and begin to build ecosystem to support them
I mixed a cup fish compost and of Black Gold organic potting soil to provide a thin ground cover over their furnishings.
Also prior to adding food for worms I sprinkled rock dust, basalt, green sand, oyster shell and added alfalfa, crab meal, kelp
and neem cake to stave of fungus gnats. Once I applied food I sprayed it with my home made BAM to give er a kick start in breaking down that food.

Please note the pics here and above are of the second bin which I begin building a month ago Jan 9th.
The picture with the nice white web, that was 6 days later.


Here are recent pictures of the second bin


Here are some pics of my first bin. I am having to use shredded paper collect excess moisture from soil to keep.
When I was in first responder mode trying to revive frozen worms I grab a bin I had yet to drill drainage holes for.
My first bin started with 2k until I made my second bin and split the worms.


This soil is very rich I am about to let the worms finish here and will not add more food.
They have had a balance diet of greens, cannabis leaf, whole grain bread, bananas, avocado, plums and some coffee grounds,
got to keep those worms awake and working you know!

I want to pass along this link very helpful....
http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/compost/Redwormsedit.htm

Hope that answered all your questions...
DankSwag


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## Thedillestpickle (Feb 9, 2014)

Yea that's awesome. There are a lot of indoor worm composters on the net but you usually don't see anyone adding all of these amendments directly into the bin. It seems to me that it makes the most sense, especially if you are planning to add them eventually. Why not let all those ingredients break down as much as possible; sort of like the idea of "cooking" your soil. 

You are going to have some awesome soil!


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## frizzlegooch (Feb 9, 2014)

kindgarden said:


> Great thread!! I am new to this forum, but have been reading posts and am very thankful to everyone for their sharing of knowledge.
> 
> I've had some very positive results over the last 7 months with vermicomposting using littlfe effort, so thought I'd share. I used books "Worms Eat My Garbage", Teaming with Microbes, and Steve Solomon's advice.
> 
> ...


That looks great but doesnt it leak onto your floor?


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## foreverflyhi (Feb 12, 2014)

A thread about poop, love it


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## Chronikool (Feb 12, 2014)

Hey Everyone... i have these wiggly worm-like thingz in my compost bin...anyone know what they are....?


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## Mohican (Feb 12, 2014)

I think they are mites! Pour some Malathion in there - that should take care of them  I heard DDT works great - forever!


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## Dr.D81 (Feb 12, 2014)

this is great been worm farming for years now


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## DANKSWAG (Feb 12, 2014)

foreverflyhi said:


> A thread about poop, love it


Check these worm castings I just harvested...



BLACK GOLD Cannabis Food!


Here I have removed the castings from the first bin and replaced with new bedding
a top layer of mild potting soil with a little homemade super soil and mineral amendments.
Then I moved existing food from right side to left side for worms to migrate over to the other side
Then I will have castings to collect on the right side. This is only bin 1. In 4 weeks bin 2 right side will be ready for harvest.



The bin 1 above replacement bedding, soil, admendments, then food moved to left side.

This is bin 2 below not much longer and I will be getting some sweet castings from this bin too.



DankSwag


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## Cedrus (Feb 13, 2014)

Three tokes for worm farming! Don't know what I would do without them. I have 2 big bins that I harvest each once or twice a year and a smaller bin that has 3 sections which I can harvest regularly. Two families worth of food scraps and all my egg cartons and brown shopping bags keep them well fed. I soak the bags and cartons so that they decompose a little faster.


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## Mohican (Feb 13, 2014)

I am getting ready to dump my bin on this pile:





I hope those worms are hungry 


Cheers,
Mo


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## Thedillestpickle (Feb 13, 2014)

Kronicool-
They look like earth worms


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## Chronikool (Feb 13, 2014)

Thedillestpickle said:


> Kronicool-
> They look like earth worms


Yeah maybe...i just think they are way to worm-like to be worms though...


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## Mohican (Feb 13, 2014)

Could be moon worms?


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## supertiger (Feb 13, 2014)

How odoriferous are worm bins? Suitable indoors or not at all?


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## Chronikool (Feb 13, 2014)

supertiger said:


> How odoriferous are worm bins? Suitable indoors or not at all?


Not really at all...nice earthy smells....unless you consider that an odor...?


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## Mohican (Feb 14, 2014)

Smells like wet cardboard


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## NaturalWorksOrganics (Feb 14, 2014)

Love how my worm bin smells. I supplement the food with a special blend of alfalfa meal, greensand, kelp meal, crushed eggshell, and rock phosphate. I also throw in a handful each of perlite and coco coir every now and then.


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## Mohican (Feb 14, 2014)

I put a layer of Promix on the bottom to absorb the liquids. Black gold!

I bake the eggshells and grind them with the mortar and pestle:









Mixed them in with the old spinach:







Cheers,
Mo


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## turnip brain (Feb 14, 2014)

Mohican said:


> I put a layer of Promix on the bottom to absorb the liquids. Black gold!
> 
> I bake the eggshells and grind them with the mortar and pestle:
> 
> ...



Old whirly coffee grinder for the eggshells here. takes 5 seconds!


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## Thedillestpickle (Feb 15, 2014)

How do you guys feed your worms? I mixed up my half rotten foods scraps up with some shredded paper, just mixing and churning and squeezing everything together with my hands. Used enough shredded paper to achieve roughly a damp soil level of moisture, then simply dumped that into the bin on top of the rest. 

That's it, simply mix food with bedding(shredded paper in this case)until not too wet, not too dry and then dump it in. 

I've seen people use completely different methods, for example using the "bedding" only as a covering, and not mixing it in. I like the idea of mixing the bedding with the food to balance the moisture level and to increase airflow so it does not become anaerobic. 


Is there a generally accepted best way to feed the worms? 
How do you feed your worms?

I'm just starting my colony so looking for the best methods to learn


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## hyroot (Feb 15, 2014)

I bury the food in various spots and a little bedding on top of those same spots.


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## NickNasty (Feb 15, 2014)

I compost everything first then feed them the compost. I also amend my compost with alfalfa, kelp, comfrey, rock dusts, and some sort of calcium like oyster shell or crab meal. I have my compost tumbler in the basement and shred all my stalks leaves and use all kitchen/garden scraps and yard waste like dandelions, grass, leaves etc. My worms love it they give me about 30-40 gal of castings a month. I could get more but I don't need it right now and because its winter I don't have much yard waste.


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## hyroot (Feb 15, 2014)

ooohhh i just picked up some rock dust


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## DANKSWAG (Feb 15, 2014)

Thedillestpickle said:


> How do you guys feed your worms? I mixed up my half rotten foods scraps up with some shredded paper, just mixing and churning and squeezing everything together with my hands. Used enough shredded paper to achieve roughly a damp soil level of moisture, then simply dumped that into the bin on top of the rest.
> 
> That's it, simply mix food with bedding(shredded paper in this case)until not too wet, not too dry and then dump it in.
> 
> ...


Dill,

Food should be rotting, before placing onto of soil. Food should stay on top of soil to maximize bacterial breakdown with beneficial bacteria. It would help to accelerate decomposing by using homemade* Lactic **Acid Bacillus* to ensure friend bacteria dominate. Burying food into soil could lead to build up of bacteria that would stink up the bins. Where LAB will neutralize those stinky awful bacteria. 

Worm poop is toxic to other worms, thus most folks divide their bins in half and when worms finishing composting food on one side for a few months, the remaining food move to the other side. Compost and castings are collected under where food was and new bedding and soil for home away from food pile. 

If you looked at any of my update, on this thread I took worm casting that were building up on one side where food scraps where laying on top of soil and worms had eaten and pooped. I move top layer of exiting food scraps over to other side and built a new bedding and soil where I have removed the castings and composted food scraps. 

It is really that easy!

DankSwag


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## Chronikool (Feb 16, 2014)

DANKSWAG said:


> Food should be rotting, before placing onto of soil.


I dont agree...it will naturally decompose...

maybe you are talking of accelerating the process...but i dont want rotting food scraps hanging out in my kitchen..



DANKSWAG said:


> Food should stay on top of soil to maximize bacterial breakdown with beneficial bacteria. Burying food into soil could lead to build up of bacteria that would stink up the bins.


How does leaving food on top of the bin maximize bacterial breakdown? I bury my scraps (in both my worm bin and compost) so it doesnt stink... and worms have better access to the food.



DANKSWAG said:


> Worm poop is toxic to other worms


In my experience...this is not true at all...i have left a bin for about 7 months...and the population has increased...i have also built soil and added worms as part of my aeration, regulation nutrient regime...cooked for 2 months....they are very much alive when i go and use this soil.


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## DANKSWAG (Feb 16, 2014)

Chronikool said:


> I dont agree...it will naturally decompose...
> 
> maybe you are talking of accelerating the process...but i dont want rotting food scraps hanging out in my kitchen..
> 
> ...


Chronikool,

Everything I referenced is WSU certified. 

http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/compost/Redwormsedit.htm

DankSwag


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## Chronikool (Feb 16, 2014)

DANKSWAG said:


> Chronikool,
> 
> Everything I referenced is WSU certified.
> 
> ...


Fair enough..you are entitled to your reference...

i've referenced real world experiences.


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## tikitoker (Feb 23, 2014)

hey folks, I have been following this thread for a little while now and I have a couple ?'s if you all don't mind. I have around 40 gallons of a 50/50 coco pith/rice hull mix. I added 1lb ea. of blood meal and bone meal(not from cows). 2 cups of kmag and 3 cups of azomite.
This is just the tip of the iceberg as to what will go in. I have a feed store in town and can source all amendments in bulk. The mix is in a 50 gallon trash can with hundreds of holes drilled in it.

Can I put the worms into the "HOT" soil or will this hurt them? The soil is not hot to the touch but I would image I will heat up to some degree, and if not, would the nitrate level (protein) be too high?

Do I HAVE to add "food scrap's" or will meals, rock dusts, protein powders, composted manures and carbohydrates (sugars)be enough to promote happy worms?

Basically I want to make a modified SS, but let the worms do the work. I really don't want it to get hot, that will kill of everything. That's why I drilled all the holes in the trash can,wuld prefer the soil web be formed along side the worms. Plus now I don't have to dump to mix or add any castings. Maintain moisture levels with AACT instead of adding produce, which has moisture content and from what I read, will add hydration to the bin and at times add paper to help even out the moisture. Any advise on this would be greatly appreciated.


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## NickNasty (Feb 23, 2014)

1.*Can I put the worms into the "HOT" soil 
They will migrate to cooler zones if the mix is too hot till things have started cooling off.

2.**Do I HAVE to add "food scrap's"
No most commercial worm farmers have very bland food for there worms they will be getting plenty of nutrition from your amendments. 

3.**I have around 40 gallons of a 50/50 coco pith/rice hull mix. Basically I want to make a modified SS, but let the worms do the work.
The only problem I see arising is your worms will eat the coco/rice hull mix too and you may end up with 40 gal of worms castings and not a mix. I know I have worms in my soil bins and I have to add rice hulls to it before I transplant into it otherwise it is too muddy from the worms making it into castings.

*


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## tikitoker (Feb 23, 2014)

NickNasty said:


> 1.*Can I put the worms into the "HOT" soil
> They will migrate to cooler zones if the mix is too hot till things have started cooling off.
> 
> 2.**Do I HAVE to add "food scrap's"
> ...


Thanks for getting back to me quickly. Good info! I Appreciate it Nick


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## Thedillestpickle (Feb 24, 2014)

NickNasty said:


> 1.*Can I put the worms into the "HOT" soil
> They will migrate to cooler zones if the mix is too hot till things have started cooling off.
> 
> 2.**Do I HAVE to add "food scrap's"
> ...


Interesting...Point # 3 I've been wondering about that for a while. 
Thank you for that post


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## DANKSWAG (Mar 5, 2014)

Hey a quick update on BIN 1 of my TWO BIN Worm System.


Worm castings are ready... 

  

Check out the cut aways....
 

Making a new bed, shredded paper and cardboard soaked in alfalfa, kelp and neem.
Next a layer sphagnum peat moss with sprinkles of rock dust, basalt, oyster shell flour and gypsum.
Next a layer of Oly fish compost with slight sprinkles again of mineral amendments. 



Note next pic shows my solution a take from flow through design which normally cuts out part of bottom of bin, 
uses pvc as rail structure to lay across paper bags to build compost pile on, then as composting happens it settles paper 
bags break down in compost and reach under and free compost with castings. 

Well I've take the idea of the PVC as a support system and made it dual purpose by drilling holes in PVC to allow mass air flow through bottom bin.
The three pipes stretch across and hold weight of BIN2 that is its own composting BIN and I do not want it following through to BIN1, so bottom remains in tact.
This allows great airflow into the underneath bin that would normally not get enough air and potentially could go bad. 


DankSwag


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## snowboarder396 (Mar 7, 2014)

Dankswag, everything I have found and read from numermous books says to bury your scraps. I guess there's no problem just putting it on top. You don't want your food sludge like and rotting just starting to decompose when you put it in. Hell you can put fresh food in as well but they won't move to it until it starts decomposing. 

Now lets talk mites  I know I have predatory mites in mine. The faster moving reddish brown and brown mites. Along with the very very slow white mites. I know when you first start up a bin you don't wanna feed to much as it can put thesystem out of balance and help explode the mite populations. Mine aren't to bad. It's a new bin just started last week. I've only fed one handful worth of stuff earlier this week. As of yesterday they were still breaking it down. Mixture veggies and some strawberries.. my question is those that keep your wormbin in the house and that have mites have you had them migrate out of the work bin at all? Mine is in the laundry worm adjacent the kitchen lol and the only thing I would hate is to find mites throughout the kitchen. I doubt they would leave the bin but was wondering everyone else's experience with them.


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## DonPetro (Mar 7, 2014)

Any mites i have had i am sure are the good kind to have and stay in the bin where they stay happy.


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## DANKSWAG (Mar 7, 2014)

Hi Snowboarder,

Thanks for your input. I haven't seen one mite, but then again I just started in Dec 12 with worms after failing miserably earlier in the spring of 2012.
I see nothing but worms, baby worms and eggs. Nats on the other hand have found their way but a quick light application to the top of the soil with neem does the trick. 

Everything I've read and experienced about burying food promote growth of bad bacteria for less oxygen than on top. Not to say if you have an outstanding healthy bacteria on top that you couldn't stave it off, but why promote it. Also if food is not deteriorated it will potentially add to much moisture content into the soil excavating an potential anaerobic bacterial firestorm. Ultimately an aerobic atmosphere must be maintained to keep environment healthy for worms.

Do you know exactly what causes a worm to die or mites to thrive?

DankSwag


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## snowboarder396 (Mar 7, 2014)

Honestly I would not add neem, I believe depending on how much is added it can kill good microbes as well. IT may be from a plant but remember, plants contain toxins as well. 

I believe the reason you have gnats is in fact because your leaving the food on top instead of burying it, well that would possibly be fruit flies, the gnats can be from your soil that you may have added. Now to answer your questions I was surprised that the link you provided from WSU said it was better to put it on top. actually to be honest I did not see where it said that myself... Any blogs, most sites, and all the worm books you read will in fact tell you to bury the food in the soil. Why? mostly because of the smell but also because of fruit flies and gnats. 

The food will not promote anaerobic conditions I can guarantee you that, The worms and everything else create space in the worm bin promoting oxygen flow. especially if you have newspaper,cardboard, perlite, pumice etc. Anything that is used for aeration. Things would have to get pretty bad in order to promote anaerobic conditions. There would have to be no way to promote oxygen at all. And worms do provide oxygen by tunneling.

Your not gonna get bad bacteria growth and what would be bad if any would be very minimal. again unless you made it into a swamp and had it sealed off its not gonna go anaerobic. Think Peat bogs, those are anaerobic. I guarantee you read most all the worm books they say to bury the scrapes. Again this is where your gnat problems are coming from. Soils, think of it in this way almost all soils promote oxygen exchange, everything up to compacted clay. 

You are right that scrapes will add extra moisture as they decompose, but its not enough to thoroughly wet your medium enough to promote anaerobic conditions. Worms prefer scrapes that are already decomposing because it is easier to digest, remember worms do not have teeth they used the grit of the medium in their digestive tract along with the bacteria in their digestive tract in order to break food waste down. I think you may have somehow misinterpreted aerobic conditions with the burying of food somehow, not sure how but I think you have, however if putting the scrapes on top work for you by all means go ahead and keep doing so as long as it works for you. 

Now for the mites. You have to remember that mites are not bad, even if they seem to be taking over a worm been, they are a very important part of the soil food web! and the ecosystem. The only bad mite is the very fast moving red ones. And most likely the red mites you may see in a worm bin are not bad. The ones I speak of are parasite mites, the way to tell is they attach themselves to the worms themselves (that are still healthy and very alive) and suck on their blood and fluids. They do the same to worm eggs. ALL other mites that you will see in a worm bin are good, they help breakdown food scrape, decompose and eat dead worms and and sickly worms, but they do not eat healthy live worms. They will not kill your worms no matter how overpopulated the mites get. The way they will kill worms is by out-competing your worms for food in breaking it all down. This will decrease your worm population due to minimal food, not because they are physically killing the worms themselves. If the sight of to many mites is to much you can remove them by placing in squash rinds and watermelon, or cantaloupe rinds which they seem to love. Leave in overnight and in the morning remove after they have mostly all congregated on the rinds and repeat until you have significantly depleted the mite population. 

The reason for the mite population would be they prefer and like moist environments, and also certain food sources such as cucurbits, including squash, melons, etc. they also love acidity, so adding tea bags, leaves, and coffee grounds will attract them as well. Adding calcium such as eggshells,lime will also help to cut out the acidity. BUT please remember that mites are not bad and apart of the food chain. It is very normal to have them in a bin. I diverse ecosystem or food web is essential. Just think of a garden or even compost where mites are common. Compost gets hot and composts for a reason. When it gets anaerobic is when it no longer breaks down organic matter. The mites are shredders and help with decomposition.

Ok. I think I tried my best to explain things lol. let me know if I forgot to address anything. 

The reason I was surprised with WSU being your source without putting myself out there to much... is because I in fact do go to WSU. Again I did not see where it said that when I read through the link. 

Happy worm farming!


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## Rising Moon (May 1, 2014)

Place melon pieces on top of your working layer, the mites love melons and will congregate on them. Simply throw the melon slices away after the mites have swarmed. 

Repeat as needed. This always works for me, and my bin is restored to order in a short time.


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## foreverflyhi (May 2, 2014)

Why hasnt this been sticky yet??? Moderators?? Sticky this thread! Ppl ned access to this type of information!


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## st0wandgrow (May 2, 2014)

Rising Moon said:


> Place melon pieces on top of your working layer, the mites love melons and will congregate on them. Simply throw the melon slices away after the mites have swarmed.
> 
> Repeat as needed. This always works for me, and my bin is restored to order in a short time.



Howdy RM. How've you been? Heard the LOS site went belly up, eh?


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## hyroot (May 4, 2014)

any ideas on how to quick dry a worm bin. mine is soaked and not draining... its smells like a dumpster.. no pest problems or anything. there are some worms still alive.. i can see water in the bin ....this is the first time I have ever had this poblem


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## st0wandgrow (May 4, 2014)

^add lots of dry bedding to sop it up. Shredded paper, cardboard, etc.


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## NickNasty (May 4, 2014)

Take it dump it on some shredded newspaper, the newspaper will soak up the moisture.


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## hyroot (May 4, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> ^add lots of dry bedding to sop it up. Shredded paper, cardboard, etc.


2 month old dry canna leaves ok? I just dumped that in there.


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## hyroot (May 4, 2014)

NickNasty said:


> Take it dump it on some shredded newspaper, the newspaper will soak up the moisture.


I don't have the space to do that. Its a new bin I started 2 weeks ago.


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## st0wandgrow (May 4, 2014)

hyroot said:


> 2 month old dry canna leaves ok? I just dumped that in there.



Not sure how much that will soak up. Can't hurt to try I guess....


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## hyroot (May 6, 2014)

the leaves didn't do shit. I added shredded newspaper and oatmeal.... Left the lid off. I'm going to pick up peat moss and coco in a few days


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## Chronikool (May 7, 2014)

Do you not have a layered bin? (therefore having more then one) 

If you can....drill a hole in the bottom and drain it into another tote...then use the liquid on your plantz...


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## SpicySativa (May 8, 2014)

If it smells like a dumpster, DO NOT use it on your plants. Dumpster smell = anaerobic = bad.

I'd give it a little mix to aerate it, leave the lid off, and not touch it for a couple weeks. I bet it'll shape right up once the oxygen is flowing and the worms start moving around.


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## Chronikool (May 8, 2014)

ok...i just clicked....i was thinking...' how does he not just have a liquid slurry in his bin' then realised that it is a _*inside*_ bin....i just assume everybody has an outdoor one with a tap...


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## hyroot (May 8, 2014)

Chronikool said:


> ok...i just clicked....i was thinking...' how does he not just have a liquid slurry in his bin' then realised that it is a _*inside*_ bin....i just assume everybody has an outdoor one with a tap...


mine is indoor. But It does have alot of drainage holes. Sitting inside another tote. The slurry I guess clogged the holes. Its much dryer now.

@Spicy its a fairly new bin. I harvested the VC a few weeks ago. I may need to add more worms though.


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 9, 2014)

fuck yes even better thread lol!!! so much info to absorb!!!


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 9, 2014)

has anyone ever ordered the worm factory form uncle jims worm farm?


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 9, 2014)

can electro culture harm worms in the grow bed?


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## Javadog (Jun 9, 2014)

radicaldank42 said:


> has anyone ever ordered the worm factory form uncle jims worm farm?


Yes. Good source.

What is "electro culture"?

JD


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 10, 2014)

Look up electro culture. Just adding ectric current to you're soil


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 11, 2014)

Electro culture is various techniques that uses electricity and mmagnetism to promote plat t growth. And studies on it are quite interesting. Look it up its been around for yeeears for a long time


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## hyroot (Jun 12, 2014)

cooking egg shells or not cooking.. What's your preference? I have a vermicomposting study in PDF form. Its from Penn state and Dr. Clive edwards. They say its better to not cook them. Cooking egg shells leaches out minerals and the residue will draw unwanted pests. Yolk residue contains nitrogen as well.


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 13, 2014)

hmm that's interesting. so what do you do with them just crush them upo and lay them in their? 
also what other objects should be placed in their? for potassium nitrogen and phosphorous?


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## hyroot (Jun 13, 2014)

radicaldank42 said:


> hmm that's interesting. so what do you do with them just crush them upo and lay them in their?
> also what other objects should be placed in their? for potassium nitrogen and phosphorous?


I guess crush / pulverize them into a powder with a mortar and pestle and add them. I usually have cooked them. Now I'm wondering....

you can add nutes as well. I've buried a little crab meal, neem meal, kelp meal, rock dust. Then veggie scraps and oats are full of all minerals as well.


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## Mohican (Jun 13, 2014)

Soak them in vinegar to remove the calcium and then use the diluted solution. Throw the rubbery shell in the compost pile.


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## hyroot (Jun 13, 2014)

Mohican said:


> Soak them in vinegar to remove the calcium and then use the diluted solution. Throw the rubbery shell in the compost pile.


vinegar is a disinfectant... So it would kill microbes. I'm talking about adding cooked or uncooked egg shells to worm bin.


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 13, 2014)

hyroot said:


> I guess crush / pulverize them into a powder with a mortar and pestle and add them. I usually have cooked them. Now I'm wondering....
> 
> you can add nutes as well. I've buried a little crab meal, neem meal, kelp meal, rock dust. Then veggie scraps and oats are full of all minerals as well.


what about bat shit and bird shit from sunleaves?
also can you add certain kinds of fish?


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## hyroot (Jun 13, 2014)

radicaldank42 said:


> what about bat shit and bird shit from sunleaves?
> also can you add certain kinds of fish?


yeah that could work. I don't use any animal anything except crab meal..


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 13, 2014)

well I mean its not lkike fresh its just like an bone meal. how much woulkd you add?


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## hyroot (Jun 13, 2014)

radicaldank42 said:


> well I mean its not lkike fresh its just like an bone meal. how much woulkd you add?


1-2 tablespoons. I don't use guano, manure, bone meal, fish for several reasons. Imo not using those produces better tasting and smoother flavor / smoke and much more of a pungent / sweeter smell..


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 13, 2014)

what do you mean elaborate?


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 13, 2014)

what about mucrohizea and other beneficial bacteria?


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 13, 2014)

and also with the leachate they say if you heavily aerate it in a tea" itll render it safe. opinion?


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## hyroot (Jun 13, 2014)

Most bacteria and fungi will already be in the bin then you can produce mycos growing short root plants, Bahia grass, clover, etc.....

mining guano is bad for the bats ecosystem. Then guano, manure, bone meal can contain pathogens and disease..


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## Schwagstock (Jun 13, 2014)

hyroot said:


> 1-2 tablespoons. I don't use guano, manure, bone meal, fish for several reasons. Imo not using those produces better tasting and smoother flavor / smoke and much more of a pungent / sweeter smell..


FANTASTIC words of wisdom hyroot, I too have found the same. I do however use fish (very minimally) and bone meal (also minimally) Talking 2 tbsp in 40 gallon soil mix, but I have found myself that these ingredients are so easy to overdo it, and when overdone your herb is pretty much terrible, itll taste organic alright...like swamp bud haha. Biggest problem is the slow release/breakdown all of those elements have causing it to be very difficult to dial in perfectly when using large amounts. Very glad to see people pointing out how bad guano farming is on the environment and the pathogens it carries. I have also found when using guano the bud comes out smelling guanoish in the ash itself, and many with compromised immune systems tend to cough alot more and/or get very sick from the herb itself.

Note to anyone using guano, please always be careful with it ensure you dont inhale it, and the fans dont blow it all over your buds, thats one way to get a great lung infection...


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## hyroot (Jun 13, 2014)

Schwagstock said:


> FANTASTIC words of wisdom hyroot, I too have found the same. I do however use fish (very minimally) and bone meal (also minimally) Talking 2 tbsp in 40 gallon soil mix, but I have found myself that these ingredients are so easy to overdo it, and when overdone your herb is pretty much terrible, itll taste organic alright...like swamp bud haha. Biggest problem is the slow release/breakdown all of those elements have causing it to be very difficult to dial in perfectly when using large amounts. Very glad to see people pointing out how bad guano farming is on the environment and the pathogens it carries. I have also found when using guano the bud comes out smelling guanoish in the ash itself, and many with compromised immune systems tend to cough alot more and/or get very sick from the herb itself.
> 
> Note to anyone using guano, please always be careful with it ensure you dont inhale it, and the fans dont blow it all over your buds, thats one way to get a great lung infection...


imo guano and fish make the smoke more harsh too. With fish meal or what ever I don't like the texture sort of speak of the smoke. The flavor is a little more bland. Like when I had cheeseberry it smelled and tasted like gouda cheese with a hint of fruit. Then with vegan mix or crab meal instead it smelled and tasted like a strawberry jelly donut. Stank up my place so much more. Cheese berry was a male oldschool master kush x female raspberry cough. Good cbd pheno that still got you pretty stoned. Somehow some got to frenchy and tc through a friend. They loved it. I almost regret letting it go. Its almost impossible to get that again. That master no longer exists.. Unless I get some hindu kush and cross it with itself then cross with raspberry cough again.


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## Schwagstock (Jun 13, 2014)

hyroot said:


> imo guano and fish make the smoke more harsh too. With fish meal or what ever I don't like the texture sort of speak of the smoke. The flavor is a little more bland. Like when I had cheeseberry it smelled and tasted like gouda cheese with a hint of fruit. Then with vegan mix or crab meal instead it smelled and tasted like a strawberry jelly donut. Stank up my place so much more. Cheese berry was a male oldschool master kush x female raspberry cough. Good cbd pheno that still got you pretty stoned. Somehow some got to frenchy and tc through a friend. They loved it. I almost regret letting it go. Its almost impossible to get that again. That master no longer exists.. Unless I get some hindu kush and cross it with itself then cross with raspberry cough again.


Its very interesting the major differences you can get from a small amount of change when it comes to look color and flavor..blows my mind. Cheese berry sounds fantastic to tell ya the truth, though I havent ever heard of her. Its tough to let the great ones go when ya have to, knowing in the back of your mind you will want it back again in however many years but may not be able to snag her back.


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## jbooley (Jun 13, 2014)

I just got done making my first worm bin. I don't have the worms yet. I am going to a friends farm and he has a huge pile of shit that has been composting for a few years. There are millions of worms in it. I'm not sure if they are red wigglers,but if they are in the pile they must be good ones. I'm using coco coir and the shit compost from the pile to start the bin. I'm going to put them in the bin and then shine a light on them until they all go down in the bedding. I will then cover with newspaper and cardboard for 2 weeks and then feed scrapes and some azomite. I was watching a youtube video about worms and the guy said to add hair and toenails to the bin. Here is the video on the worm farm it is a very good video to watch on EWC.



 It there is anything more to start it please let me know.

JB


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## hyroot (Jun 13, 2014)

Schwagstock said:


> Its very interesting the major differences you can get from a small amount of change when it comes to look color and flavor..blows my mind. Cheese berry sounds fantastic to tell ya the truth, though I havent ever heard of her. Its tough to let the great ones go when ya have to, knowing in the back of your mind you will want it back again in however many years but may not be able to snag her back.


that cheese berry was my own cross. There is another cheese berry out there. My friend kept and still calls it huckleberry lol.


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## Schwagstock (Jun 13, 2014)

hyroot said:


> that cheese berry was my own cross. There is another cheese berry out there. My friend kept and still calls it huckleberry lol.


ha at the huckleberry that made me chuckle fer sure.


On another note, anyone ever add cacao bean to there soil? (chocolate bean shell)? I cant recall and am too lazy to look it up, but I do believe it has something in it that is good for plants immune systems? I read something long ago and have always since wondered and kinda wanted to try


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## hyroot (Jun 14, 2014)

Schwagstock said:


> ha at the huckleberry that made me chuckle fer sure.
> 
> 
> On another note, anyone ever add cacao bean to there soil? (chocolate bean shell)? I cant recall and am too lazy to look it up, but I do believe it has something in it that is good for plants immune systems? I read something long ago and have always since wondered and kinda wanted to try


my buddy on the mountain uses cocoa bean shells and alapaca manure. Both as fertilizers and compost. The cocoa also as a mulch. It has an even balanced npk 2-2-2 or 3-3-3. I don't know what other minerals cocoa shells may have.


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## Schwagstock (Jun 14, 2014)

hyroot said:


> my buddy on the mountain uses cocoa bean shells and alapaca manure. Both as fertilizers and compost. The cocoa also as a mulch. It has an even balanced npk 2-2-2 or 3-3-3. I don't know what other minerals cocoa shells may have.


Kinda wish there was a love button to hit for ya. Thanks for the info, gonna have to give it a try, Im sure I can find it online. I would imagine I would want the shells only not the beans themselves correct? I figure chocolate is typically not good for most things so..


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## hyroot (Jun 14, 2014)

Schwagstock said:


> Kinda wish there was a love button to hit for ya. Thanks for the info, gonna have to give it a try, Im sure I can find it online. I would imagine I would want the shells only not the beans themselves correct? I figure chocolate is typically not good for most things so..


yeah just the shells. They can be used for aeration too. Similar to rice hulls.


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 14, 2014)

hyroot said:


> Most bacteria and fungi will already be in the bin then you can produce mycos growing short root plants, Bahia grass, clover, etc.....
> 
> mining guano is bad for the bats ecosystem. Then guano, manure, bone meal can contain pathogens and disease..


this guano is from sunleaves? you don't have sunleaves guano line? that's what I meant.


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 14, 2014)

foreverflyhi said:


> Forgive my lack of terminology,
> what is the black gooey stuff called that collects in the bottom of the bin?
> I use mine about once a month in a larger batch of tea ill occasionally brew. Any reccomendation on dosage?


its called leachate and can be used be carefull can be anaerobic and can harm plants, and has pythotoxins


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## hyroot (Jun 14, 2014)

radicaldank42 said:


> this guano is from sunleaves? you don't have sunleaves guano line? that's what I meant.


we do have that line. That and the guano company. I'm referring to all bat guano.
they all are mined from bat caves. Its bad for the bats ecosystem and it can carry pathogens and disease. Not good for sick patients to smoke or eat guano grown weed. Plus it makes the smoke harsh. I highly suggest using crab meal or soft rock phosphate instead.


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## DonAlejandroVega (Jun 14, 2014)

Schwagstock said:


> ha at the huckleberry that made me chuckle fer sure.
> 
> 
> On another note, anyone ever add cacao bean to there soil? (chocolate bean shell)? I cant recall and am too lazy to look it up, but I do believe it has something in it that is good for plants immune systems? I read something long ago and have always since wondered and kinda wanted to try


in proper growing conditions your plant's immune system can handle about anything. those chocolate husks stick together when wet and clump. I fed them to my worms, and they sure liked them. but, I would use caution adding organic matter to your soil that is not fully rotted, unless as a mulch.


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## Schwagstock (Jun 14, 2014)

DonAlejandroVega said:


> in proper growing conditions your plant's immune system can handle about anything. those chocolate husks stick together when wet and clump. I fed them to my worms, and they sure liked them. but, I would use caution adding organic matter to your soil that is not fully rotted, unless as a mulch.


My bad bro I should of stated that I would be composting in the worm bin first, which takes 3 months untill that bin hits my soil which I then create and compost for another 2 months before it goes into the pots that the veg plants get vegged in for 2 more months then flipped into flower for 2 months. so in all it would compost for about a half year before used Your words were for sure needed though, it gives much more light to anyone looking in or googling across this as to how to go about using them if they were to want to.


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## DonAlejandroVega (Jun 14, 2014)

Schwagstock said:


> My bad bro I should of stated that I would be composting in the worm bin first, which takes 3 months untill that bin hits my soil which I then create and compost for another 2 months before it goes into the pots that the veg plants get vegged in for 2 more months then flipped into flower for 2 months. so in all it would compost for about a half year before used Your words were for sure needed though, it gives much more light to anyone looking in or googling across this as to how to go about using them if they were to want to.


excellent method. mellowed medium performs the best. all webbed with fungal goodness


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## Schwagstock (Jun 14, 2014)

DonAlejandroVega said:


> excellent method. mellowed medium performs the best. all webbed with fungal goodness


absolutely, its the way i have grown for many many years, I use to do the chem thing but growing up in a hardcore farming community, and with hippie parents, I soon began thinking why arent I replicating what most these farmers/my own parents were doing, there gardens were always epic, and it was just a simple process of composting and reusing everything, and finding nutrients in the cheapest easiest ways. In the end the results spoke for themselves and I quit buying and spending tons of money at the grow stores, and supplying the people whom already have massive pockets with far more, and the result was cheaper, better, and the ability to produce more for less. When you can do all those things at once there isn't a company or person in the world that would turn that offer down.


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## DonAlejandroVega (Jun 14, 2014)

Schwagstock said:


> absolutely, its the way i have grown for many many years, I use to do the chem thing but growing up in a hardcore farming community, and with hippie parents, I soon began thinking why arent I replicating what most these farmers/my own parents were doing, there gardens were always epic, and it was just a simple process of composting and reusing everything, and finding nutrients in the cheapest easiest ways. In the end the results spoke for themselves and I quit buying and spending tons of money at the grow stores, and supplying the people whom already have massive pockets with far more, and the result was cheaper, better, and the ability to produce more for less. When you can do all those things at once there isn't a company or person in the world that would turn that offer down.


when I get set-up, out in AZ, I'm going to do black soldier fly farming, feed that frass to red wigglers to finish off quickly, and feed excess worms, and all the black soldier fly grubs to chickens, and use their waste as insect chow. a circle 

I'm considering adding some of the black soldier fly grubs to my diet also......lol. very high in protein. all the right fats. free-range.....lol. totally serious. I'm preparing for the 'Pocyclypse................


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## Schwagstock (Jun 14, 2014)

DonAlejandroVega said:


> when I get set-up, out in AZ, I'm going to do black soldier fly farming, feed that frass to red wigglers to finish off quickly, and feed excess worms, and all the black soldier fly grubs to chickens, and use their waste as insect chow. a circle
> 
> I'm considering adding some of the black soldier fly grubs to my diet also......lol. very high in protein. all the right fats. free-range.....lol. totally serious. I'm preparing for the 'Pocyclypse................


Obama did say something along the lines of "I just hope with the legalization of weed doesnt come a whole bunch of paranoid people thinking things are happening that arent"....you're one of them arent you?
haha Totally playing with ya, the circle is what any true organic farmer is working towards I believe. If you arent I dont think mentally youre an organic farmer yet..I love using frass for my grows, bought a bag once never stopped using it. Sadly I gotta buy it though, I am positive no one around me wants me raising flies or chickens...


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## DonAlejandroVega (Jun 14, 2014)

Schwagstock said:


> Obama did say something along the lines of "I just hope with the legalization of weed doesnt come a whole bunch of paranoid people thinking things are happening that arent"....you're one of them arent you?
> haha Totally playing with ya, the circle is what any true organic farmer is working towards I believe. If you arent I dont think mentally youre an organic farmer yet..I love using frass for my grows, bought a bag once never stopped using it. Sadly I gotta buy it though, I am positive no one around me wants me raising flies or chickens...


paranoia is irrational fear 
hard times are a-comin.' grow food AND meds......................


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## Schwagstock (Jun 14, 2014)

DonAlejandroVega said:


> paranoia is irrational fear
> hard times are a-comin.' grow food AND meds......................
> 
> View attachment 3179747


That picture made me cry laughing, oh...im sorry thats probably you? HAHA..in that case you look like an upstanding citizen any government would LOVE to have messing with ya, I actually am in the same boat as you, as is my girlfriend/very soon to be fiance..Hard times are for sure coming, although harder times will always be on its way. Thats the nature of this life, and to be honest we deserve it, we destroy, pollute, dont care about anything, and its coming back to get us. Its only then when the hard hard times hit will people begin caring, and its always to late then...thats the bitch about procrastination it always ends bad in one way or another....the beauty of it all though in my mind, is the fact theres more then likely something better. The world works so that you get a shit storm, but after that you get a little bit of awesome, but mostly shit storming away, and I have faith when ya die cuz ya dealt with the shit storm, youll just get pure awesome.


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## DonAlejandroVega (Jun 14, 2014)

Schwagstock said:


> That picture made me cry laughing, oh...im sorry thats probably you? HAHA..in that case you look like an upstanding citizen any government would LOVE to have messing with ya, I actually am in the same boat as you, as is my girlfriend/very soon to be fiance..Hard times are for sure coming, although harder times will always be on its way. Thats the nature of this life, and to be honest we deserve it, we destroy, pollute, dont care about anything, and its coming back to get us. Its only then when the hard hard times hit will people begin caring, and its always to late then...thats the bitch about procrastination it always ends bad in one way or another....the beauty of it all though in my mind, is the fact theres more then likely something better. The world works so that you get a shit storm, but after that you get a little bit of awesome, but mostly shit storming away, and I have faith when ya die cuz ya dealt with the shit storm, youll just get pure awesome.


homo destructus........that's us. I just do my bit, an' try to be an example to others. self-sufficiency, integrity, empathy. we'll see what happens, but I do not intend to sit around, an' wait for my UN Daily Humanitarian Ration biscuit.......no sir.

that's not me, and I don't look like a fine upstanding citizen, and the government would like to ice-pick my medulla oblongata for my insights and big mouth


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 16, 2014)

OK. Crab meal and soft rock phosphate


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 17, 2014)

What would you add to get the carbs like what carboload does


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## hyroot (Jun 17, 2014)

radicaldank42 said:


> What would you add to get the carbs like what carboload does


carbs are sugars / potassium. Kelp and molasses


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## MustangStudFarm (Jun 18, 2014)

Does anyone use the "Worm Factory 360"? I am looking to buy one or build something similar. It looks fairly big from the pic and it has 250+ positive reviews at amazon. Is it really necessary? I live south and outside temps might be too high, so I might have to use it indoors. I am new at this and looking for a good book/read. Thanks

http://www.amazon.com/Worm-Factory-WF360B-Composter-Black/dp/B002LH47PY/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1403071385&sr=1-1&keywords=worm+farm


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## Javadog (Jun 18, 2014)

I use a model very much like it and they rock.

A self-build unit will inevitably be larger and stronger,
but they work.

JD


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## Schwagstock (Jun 18, 2014)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Does anyone use the "Worm Factory 360"? I am looking to buy one or build something similar. It looks fairly big from the pic and it has 250+ positive reviews at amazon. Is it really necessary? I live south and outside temps might be too high, so I might have to use it indoors. I am new at this and looking for a good book/read. Thanks
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Worm-Factory-WF360B-Composter-Black/dp/B002LH47PY/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1403071385&sr=1-1&keywords=worm farm


Good book, Earthworms eat my garbage. Good info on what to feed/how to go about doing it/ worms life cycle etc. Also I do use the worm factory 360, it is not that large. (small enough for me to put on a desk and have more then half the desk still.) I also use it inside only to help with temp regulation. Each tray when filled about the most ya can get it can hold almost a full 5 gal bucket of casting.


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## MustangStudFarm (Jun 18, 2014)

I found a copy of "Teaming with microbes". He said chem ferts destroy all living organisms in the soil, I had no idea. I need to actually read this book! Foxfarm sells Root drench and Microbe brew with their bottle chem ferts. What is the point? I feel stupid for buying into it. No sense in molasses either. I need to read more!!! I am trying to make the switch to organic and not be a fool about it.


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## greasemonkeymann (Jun 18, 2014)

hyroot said:


> my buddy on the mountain uses cocoa bean shells and alapaca manure. Both as fertilizers and compost. The cocoa also as a mulch. It has an even balanced npk 2-2-2 or 3-3-3. I don't know what other minerals cocoa shells may have.


 alpaca manure is SO great, between that and rabbit manure, and you have the perfect start.


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## docter (Jun 20, 2014)

I want this.
Opinions?
http://unclejimswormfarm.com/index.php/Live-Worms/Combo-Compost-Mix/flypage.tpl.html


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## DonPetro (Jun 20, 2014)

I built my own three tier worm bin out of scrap wood. Had it for almost two years. Best $4 i ever spent.


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 20, 2014)

im using the worm factory as we speak. its preettyt rad. asdn quit easy. and thanks hyroot. how much would you say to add to fed them that?


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 20, 2014)

docter said:


> I want this.
> Opinions?
> http://unclejimswormfarm.com/index.php/Live-Worms/Combo-Compost-Mix/flypage.tpl.html


funny I just got that same worm combo from same place lol I even got the worm factory three tray setup. lol so far soo good, I wanted the mixture of worms ratherthen one species I wanted a more complex compst.


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## DonPetro (Jun 21, 2014)

So does anyone supplement their worm food with any organic amendments? I use a blend of alfalfa meal, kelp meal, greensand, crushed eggshell and rock phosphate. Also i add a handful of coir once every couple weeks. Worms seem to love it.


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## docter (Jun 21, 2014)

greensand .azomite.


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## CannaBare (Jun 21, 2014)

docter said:


> greensand .azomite.


Same. I only feel I should supply grit. And when I run out of eggshells I toss some rock dusts. Everything else is covered in store bought veggies right?


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## hyroot (Jun 21, 2014)

^^^ yep veggies have all kinds of minerals. Romaine lettuce alone covers just about everything. I feed mine veggie scraps, egg shells, dandelions, rosemary, lavender, comfrey, kelp meal, neem meal, rock dust, crab meal. The amendments in very small amounts each time. Then the bedding is peat, coco, and dried canna leaves.


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## docter (Jun 21, 2014)

coco IS AWSOME.


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## docter (Jun 23, 2014)

I JUST CHECKED ON MY WORMS THEY LOOK LAZY TODAY.


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## docter (Jun 23, 2014)

HEY HYROOT. DO YOUR CRUSH YOUR EGG SHELLS FIRST?


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## hyroot (Jun 23, 2014)

docter said:


> HEY HYROOT. DO YOUR CRUSH YOUR EGG SHELLS FIRST?


yes I pulverize them using a pestle and mortar.

if they seem lazy or hiding in the corners. Bin might be too dry or they might be searching for food. I bury 3 pockets of frozen / slightly thawed veggie scrap slurry. They go nuts for the veggie scraps and more so than coffee grinds..


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## docter (Jun 24, 2014)

I gave them some champagne mango's. I may i,ll give the some water.


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## MustangStudFarm (Jun 26, 2014)

Correct me if I'm wrong. Worm casting are high N and it contains ALL the trace elements that are added to supersoil. Right? If worm castings do not burn you plant and contain all the trace elements, why use amendments? Can a person use only casting and do well? Why amend the soil if the casting have everything? 
I dont mean to keep asking lame noobie questions!


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## MustangStudFarm (Jun 26, 2014)

hyroot said:


> yes I pulverize them using a pestle and mortar.
> 
> if they seem lazy or hiding in the corners. Bin might be too dry or they might be searching for food. I bury 3 pockets of frozen / slightly thawed veggie scrap slurry. They go nuts for the veggie scraps and more so than coffee grinds..


I have read that about coffee grounds! I would skip them, but I have a daily supply of good coffee. Also, I heard that they are high N. How do you use them, like what is a good amount. Would leftover coffee water be better using it like a "tea".


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## hyroot (Jun 26, 2014)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I have read that about coffee grounds! I would skip them, but I have a daily supply of good coffee. Also, I heard that they are high N. How do you use them, like what is a good amount. Would leftover coffee water be better using it like a "tea".


I just bury coffee grounds in one spot. Coffee minerals probably depends on the beans and how they were grown. Generally they have nitrogen, phos, potassium, magnanese.

store bought castings usually have just n. Because the worms are fed the minimal amount of food. Mostly cardboard. Homemade are fed what ever you want. My homemade have every mineral so...


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## MustangStudFarm (Jun 26, 2014)

hyroot said:


> I just bury coffee grounds in one spot. Coffee minerals probably depends on the beans and how they were grown. Generally they have nitrogen, phos, potassium, magnanese.
> 
> store bought castings usually have just n. Because the worms are fed the minimal amount of food. Mostly cardboard. Homemade are fed what ever you want. My homemade have every mineral so...


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## MustangStudFarm (Jun 26, 2014)

I am waiting for UPS to bring my worm factory as we speak! So you are saying that good homemade castings can be an "All-in-one" fert? without having to cook!


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## hyroot (Jun 26, 2014)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I am waiting for UPS to bring my worm factory as we speak! So you are saying that good homemade castings can be an "All-in-one" fert? without having to cook!


 yeah for the most part. I still topdress nutes the beginning of flower when doing rols. Mix nutes into fsoil mixes. Castings have smaller amounts of nutes. I only bury small amounts of nutes once a month. Egg shells once a month. Veggie scraps and coffe grounds every few days.


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## greasemonkeymann (Jun 26, 2014)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong. Worm casting are high N and it contains ALL the trace elements that are added to supersoil. Right? If worm castings do not burn you plant and contain all the trace elements, why use amendments? Can a person use only casting and do well? Why amend the soil if the casting have everything?
> I dont mean to keep asking lame noobie questions!


nah, worm castings are relatively low in most NPK, you use them for the beneficial microbes.
using ONLY worm castings as the sole amendment and you'd be growing some unhappy plants.
low in everything, but VERY important to use, as it adds a LOT of life to your soil, but for amendments you'll need more
fish bone meal, manures, alfalfa meal, some like blood meal, bat guanos, seabird guano, etc.


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## MustangStudFarm (Jun 26, 2014)

I am sure its been talked about, maybe you could link me to some good posts. My worm factory got here like 30min ago and I am trying to set it up. My wife is reading the instructions while I prep. Is there anything not in the instructions that would be helpful?
So far I have wood compost that I get by the trailer load. I started putting fruit and veggies into a 5 gal w/ compost a week ago and its nice and furry. My wife ordered a mortar and pestle and ground egg shell up.


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## docter (Jun 26, 2014)

worm castings are to compact to use alone. The wealth of microbial life and trace elements alone is phenomenal. Work casting improve taste and color. The also help keep small deficiencies to from happening but they need to companion-ed with living am mended soil to supply a habitat for a health soil food web. You need the amendment soil for your macro-nutrients like n,p,k
doc.



MustangStudFarm said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong. Worm casting are high N and it contains ALL the trace elements that are added to supersoil. Right? If worm castings do not burn you plant and contain all the trace elements, why use amendments? Can a person use only casting and do well? Why amend the soil if the casting have everything?
> I dont mean to keep asking lame noobie questions!


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## hyroot (Jun 26, 2014)

this thread was dead for so long. I love that it has taken off again


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## docter (Jun 26, 2014)

The abundance of coffee varieties and soil /growing conditions/Soil mineral content. Must be extensive. Before now i have given this very little thought. Thanks root.
doc


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## docter (Jun 26, 2014)

worm castings are to compact to use alone. The wealth of microbial life and trace elements alone is phenomenal. Work casting improve taste and color. The also help keep small deficiencies to from happening but they need to companion-ed with living am mended soil to supply a habitat for a health soil food web. You need the amendment soil for your macro-nutrients like n,p,k
doc.



MustangStudFarm said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong. Worm casting are high N and it contains ALL the trace elements that are added to supersoil. Right? If worm castings do not burn you plant and contain all the trace elements, why use amendments? Can a person use only casting and do well? Why amend the soil if the casting have everything?
> I dont mean to keep asking lame noobie questions!


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## docter (Jun 26, 2014)

Yes this tread is a lot of fun for me. I have been giving the whole thing a lot of thought lately. I,m glad for all the new ideas from everyone.


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## MustangStudFarm (Jun 26, 2014)

DonPetro said:


> So does anyone supplement their worm food with any organic amendments? I use a blend of alfalfa meal, kelp meal, greensand, crushed eggshell and rock phosphate. Also i add a handful of coir once every couple weeks. Worms seem to love it.


I just wanted to bring up this question again. Also, when do you start adding the amendment? I am on day 1 lol.


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 27, 2014)

heres a question what about adding Canadian nightcrawlers to a compost bin? how would thos react with my re wigglers and super reds?


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 27, 2014)

usually anytime of amendment should be mixed into the soil unless youre top dressing. if im correct on this I could be wrong.also anyone here making their own super soil? cause I wanna know what everyones different recipies are.


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## docter (Jun 27, 2014)

I have added some greensand and crap shell with some azomite already.I,m 30 Days in approx.
Interesting side note when I added coco the worms migrated there in numbers to hang out.



MustangStudFarm said:


> I just wanted to bring up this question again. Also, when do you start adding the amendment? I am on day 1 lol.


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## st0wandgrow (Jun 27, 2014)

docter said:


> I have added some crap shell.


Is that like the outer most layer of a turd that hardens up after it sits for a while?


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## docter (Jun 27, 2014)

sorry. crab.crab.


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## docter (Jun 27, 2014)

That shit is funny.



st0wandgrow said:


> Is that like the outer most layer of a turd that hardens up after it sits for a while?


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## MustangStudFarm (Jun 27, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Is that like the outer most layer of a turd that hardens up after it sits for a while?


Messy job separating the shells too! What do you do with the innards? lol


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 28, 2014)

and also when it comes to coffee grounds you wanna add them every so often cause It can case the bedding to become too acidic.


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## st0wandgrow (Jun 28, 2014)

radicaldank42 said:


> and also when it comes to coffee grounds you wanna add them every so often cause It can case the bedding to become too acidic.


I was wondering the same myself a while back after feeding the worms coffee grounds every feeding, so I did a little research and came upon this:


"Coffee grounds are about 2% 
nitrogen by volume
. 
Grounds are not acidic; the acid in 
coffee is water-soluble so the acid is 
mostly in the coffee. 
Coffee grounds are close to pH 
neutral (between 6.5 - 6.8 pH). 
Coffee grounds improve soil tilth or 
structure."

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/lane/sites/default/files/documents/cffee07.pdf


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 28, 2014)

ok I stand corrected it was citrus fruits and things like onion that makes things go acidic sorry, but I sware I read something about too much coffee grounds can be bad ofor some reason
http://www.recycleworks.org/compost/wormfood.html


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 28, 2014)

yea if feed too much it will become acidic


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## st0wandgrow (Jun 28, 2014)

radicaldank42 said:


> yea if feed too much it will become acidic


Yeah, I suppose like everything else moderation is good


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## radicaldank42 (Jun 28, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Yeah, I suppose like everything else moderation is good


isn't that with everything though


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## DonTesla (Jul 1, 2014)

you can even get "drunk" off of water... hard to drink enough to do that tho..


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## greasemonkeymann (Jul 2, 2014)

radicaldank42 said:


> ok I stand corrected it was citrus fruits and things like onion that makes things go acidic sorry, but I sware I read something about too much coffee grounds can be bad ofor some reason
> http://www.recycleworks.org/compost/wormfood.html


it also kinda "cheapens" your end product, and what I mean is, the worm castings won't be as nutritious as castings made from better ingredients (alfalfa, egg shells, cottonseed meal, fruit scraps, etc).
After all, isn't that the point? To make your own high-quality castings for your ladies? The worms eat so little and you may already have most of the stuff for teas anyways, so why not?


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## MustangStudFarm (Jul 2, 2014)

I found Black soldier flies in my outside compost! Last year I didnt know what they were and thought they were HUGE maggots lol... It would not be hard to catch a few. would it be worth it? I mean would they reproduce and would I put them in my worm farm?


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## OutofLEDCloset (Jul 5, 2014)

Would love to make my own EWC. Someone mentioned a 45 gallon smart pot. Would the Blumat's autowatering system keep the soil at an ideal moisture for the worms.


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## Javadog (Jul 5, 2014)

I am finding that my food selection for my worms is not smart
by nature....I seem to be giving them things too rich...I am finding
that my worms are not really working on the food....

Still learning.

JD


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## radicaldank42 (Jul 5, 2014)

I have found out the like carrots celery they love apples alfalfa meal and I gave them some banana and egg shell with a teaspoon of great white and they are just exploding tery getting a small bag of worm casting from the nearest grow shop and add it to your bin itll helpo the process of organic material to break down faster. if im remembering correctly, I have terrible memory lol,


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## Javadog (Jul 5, 2014)

I am going to dump out the upper level and work in some 
material that will make the whole thing more digestible and 
attractive to them.

Thanks for the time!

JD


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## radicaldank42 (Jul 5, 2014)

like I said trhose are awesome, and chop it up fine like really fine, more surface area for the bacteria tobreak shit down


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## MustangStudFarm (Jul 11, 2014)

I have been thinking of starting a worm bin outside and I came across this link... It has a basic design and could be modified. I would like something bigger!

http://www.instructables.com/id/Triple-Bin-Worm-Composter-Vermicompost/?ALLSTEPS


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## JSJ (Jul 12, 2014)

So I have a cold compost where I through all my veggie scraps, trim and stems, grass clippings, egg shells, coffee grounds and filters, all that shit. So are the earthworms in that compost good candidates for vermicompostering??


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## Mohican (Jul 12, 2014)

Yes!


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## JSJ (Jul 13, 2014)

THANX!!! Every time I turn the pile there's prolly a dozen in every shovel full.

Does anybody know what the centipede looking critters are in the compost? Are they beneficial in anyway? (for vermicomposting) I think there is 4 of them for every wiggler!!


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## Javadog (Jul 13, 2014)

I think that my food is too rich...I get more odd bugs as a result.

I am trying more less-"foody" things (more shredded paper)

Good luck,

JD


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## DonTesla (Jul 14, 2014)

just transplanted and top dressed with a kilo of silky, rich, Don-made EWCs and dam it feels good, mon!


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## Pattahabi (Jul 14, 2014)

A good reason to use vermicompost. Taken from Vermiculture Technology: Earthworms, Organic Wastes, and Environmental Management - Clive A. Edwards



> Edwards and Burrows (1988 ) and Arancon and Edwards (2004) reported that vermicomposts, especially those produced from animal waste manures, usually contained greater quantities of mineral elements than commercial plant growth media, and many of these elements were in forms that could be taken up more readily by the plants, such as nitrates, exchangeable P, and soluble K, Ca, and Mg. Orozco et al. (1996) reported that vermicomposting of coffee pulp increased the availability of nutrients such as P, C, and Mg. Werner and Cuevas (1996) reported that most vermicomposts contained adequate amounts of macronutrients, micronutrients, and trace elements of various kinds, but amounts inevitably depended on the type of the parent earthworm feedstock.


P-


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## DonTesla (Jul 16, 2014)

.. to all dee Rastas, Wiggler Farmers, and cats who drop knowledge for sensi's sake, here on RIU… BIG UP!!


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## DonPetro (Jul 16, 2014)

DonTesla said:


> View attachment 3205303
> .. to all dee Rastas, Wiggler Farmers, and cats who drop knowledge for sensi's sake, here on RIU… BIG UP!!


You took a work of art and turned it into a masterpiece! Nice work.


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## DonTesla (Jul 17, 2014)

DonPetro said:


> You took a work of art and turned it into a masterpiece! Nice work.


might be the most beautiful canvas i ever worked with, and favourite piece since, my last birth… yamon!


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Jul 17, 2014)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I have been thinking of starting a worm bin outside and I came across this link... It has a basic design and could be modified. I would like something bigger!
> 
> http://www.instructables.com/id/Triple-Bin-Worm-Composter-Vermicompost/?ALLSTEPS


How long does it take before worms start producing castings ?

And how much would something like this DIY worm bin composter produce ?

I've been thinking for a while now that I want to do a worm bin.....

thanks, SC - subbed to thread


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## DonTesla (Jul 17, 2014)

SpaaaceCowboy said:


> How long does it take before worms start producing castings ?
> 
> And how much would something like this DIY worm bin composter produce ?
> 
> ...


Well it depends not so much on size, but how many pounds of happy worms u got, cause they will eat their body weight inna day if happy. They live for 10 years straight with no sleep so if they are unstressed (no onions, acidic mix, not too dry, hot cold etc) they will also up to double their bio mass every month via mating and growing...

So, if you had one pound of happy happy worms they'll do what a pound of healthy worms do.. if u get 3 pounds, they will be months ahead, and triple the bins output. That design (i scoped it) is good. There are even better designs that sift for you, separating castings and cocoons and worms, but if already set, then based on size id be tempted to put at least a half pound per section. They love apples, bananas, manure, watermelon rind, and alfalfa a lot, which can get ur rare growth hormones readily-available too. They start producing castings in minutes.. it can take a while to pile up.. and thats where ur sifting or separating game becomes important… i use 1/4 hard ware mesh in between layers in my farm. I thought the holes would be too big but with moisture it is perfect. Castings fall to bottom, with some lower-laid cocoons, and the odd worms. once a week i pick out the big boys from the bottom i jus keep all 3 layers moist.. top layer has four half root balls, some semi-compost from garden, half the worms, then i have 2 root balls and some almost done VC with the other half of the worms, then i have the castings on the bottom with some babies maturing.. they love banana rinds so if u leave on in the bottom layer everyone will migrate to it! the Farms smaller overall width allows me to keep it indoors, at room temp 24/7, right near the flowering tent. if i put in 10 pounds of food/compost a month, it creates 9 pounds of Co2 that month, after fermentation, digestion, etc. 90% is very high.. first it releases when it decomposes and again when its processed.. if you youtube worm farms you will see some designs that vibrate your worms thru different size screens and return the worms to pail for you, leaving you castings, worms, and cocoons separated.. happy farming them worms, bruh!


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## DonAlejandroVega (Jul 17, 2014)




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## Pattahabi (Jul 17, 2014)

Vermiculture Technologies - Edwards

The life cycle and population biology of E. fetida and E. andrei in different organic wastes have been investigated by several authors (Watanabe and Tsukamoto 1976; Hartenstein et al. 1979; Edwards 1988; Reinecke and Viljoen 1990; Domínguez et al. 1997; Domínguez and Edwards 1997; Domínguez et al. 2000; Monroy et al. 2006). The optimum temperature for growth of both species is 25°C(68°F), and although they can tolerate a wide range of moisture conditions, the optimum moisture content for these species is 85%. In optimum conditions the length of their life cycles (from newly-laid cocoon through clitellate adult earthworm) ranges from 45 to 51 days. The time for hatchlings to reach sexual maturity varies from 21 to 30 days. Copulation in these species, which takes place beneath the soil or waste surface, has been men- tioned by various authors since 1845 and has been observed more often than in any other megadrile species. Cocoon laying starts 48 hours after copulation, and the rate of cocoon production is 0.35–0.5 day–1. The hatching viability is 72%–82%, and the incubation period ranges from 18 to 26 days. The number of young earthworms hatching from viable cocoons varies from 2.5 to 3.8 depending on the temperature. In controlled conditions, the average life span is 594 days at 18°C(64.4°F) and 589 days at 28°C(82.4°F) with a maximum life expectancy between 4.5 and 5 years, although under natural conditions it may be considerably shorter.


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## SpaaaceCowboy (Jul 17, 2014)

thanks for the informative post Don....


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## Bueno Time (Nov 6, 2014)

Nice, made it through the whole thread now. I started my worm bins before finding this thread, Ive had my worms for a week and they seem to be doing well. They love pureed veggie/fruit with a little coffee grounds. Fed them a little corn meal/oatmeal/crab shell mix and they swarmed that too. Planning to feed them small amounts of dry amendments like some are doing, have to order some more amendments anyway, all I have is a half cup or so of crab shell right now and a couple tbsp of dolomite lime.

Im feeding on one side of my bins, I saw someone else posted in here how they do their bins half at a time, might do something like that with mine. Right now I am trying to gauge how fast they work the food I add so I havent added much food since I see more posts about bad things from adding too much food rather than too little (they will eat the bedding or cycle their own castings/bacteria/fungi if food is short/gone).

I started with 2lbs red wigglers from uncle jims. I was going to start 4 bins but just split between two and when the population grows I will split into the 4 seperate bins but for now the bottom bins are to catch any leachate. In a couple months I should be able to use some fresh homemade castings on my plants.






















(Already posted these in the ROLS thread but I figured Id put them in here in the Vermicompost thread.)


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## greasemonkeymann (Nov 6, 2014)

Good job man, you'll be amazed how addictive it is to have worms, I kinda think of them like pets, if I could humbly make a suggestion, get a newspaper and open it length wise, and cover the top layer with it, it being soaked of course. works sorta like a mulch cover for your plants, only for the surface of the wormbin, its also kinda works like a buffer if it gets unexpectably hot or dry out, or if you simply forget to water your worms, and the worms like it...
oh, and if you can find spoiled grapes or apples, those two things are their favorites, at least for mine


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## Scroga (Nov 6, 2014)

Is it OK to put onions in? 

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## Chronikool (Nov 6, 2014)

Scroga said:


> Is it OK to put onions in?
> 
> Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app


some people dont like too...but i dont give a fuck to be honest... 

i keep my wormz hungry so they dont have a choice what they eat...kind of liken them to pit dogz....dont put your hand in the bin...


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## greasemonkeymann (Nov 6, 2014)

Chronikool said:


> some people dont like too...but i dont give a fuck to be honest...
> 
> i keep my wormz hungry so they dont have a choice what they eat...kind of liken them to pit dogz....dont put your hand in the bin...


you know, I've talked to many many hippy composters (lots around) and they feed them onions too, and I've seen some of their bins, and those worms, well, you said it well, like pit dogs... I guess like anything, can't believe 100% of what you read, I've always read onions were a bad thing for wormbins
Haven't done it yet, added onions that is, but my bins are kinda small, especially compared to the ones I've seen, I have two 20 or 25 gallon smartpots for mine, can't remember what size they are, the tag rotted off in the sun yrs ago


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## Chronikool (Nov 6, 2014)

if you had the choice...im sure onionz wouldnt be their go too....but they will get in there....

break them up a bit...i havent seen a mass exodus yet.

i also dont harvest my castingz per se....one general bin....i just grab a whole handfull of wormz, castings etc and mix it in my soil on transplant...shit workz well...

doesn't matter the size of the pot either....this is a myth....if your soil is balanced and healthy and conditionz are right...the wormz will stay and keep producing the good stuff for the duration of your grow.


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## Dr.D81 (Nov 6, 2014)

Chronikool said:


> if you had the choice...im sure onionz wouldnt be their go too....but they will get in there....
> 
> break them up a bit...i havent seen a mass exodus yet.
> 
> ...


Yea i have had them make it for months till after i chop and there they are when i deroot to recycle my soil. Even in 1 and 2 gal pots


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## Bueno Time (Nov 6, 2014)

greasemonkeymann said:


> Good job man, you'll be amazed how addictive it is to have worms, I kinda think of them like pets, if I could humbly make a suggestion, get a newspaper and open it length wise, and cover the top layer with it, it being soaked of course. works sorta like a mulch cover for your plants, only for the surface of the wormbin, its also kinda works like a buffer if it gets unexpectably hot or dry out, or if you simply forget to water your worms, and the worms like it...
> oh, and if you can find spoiled grapes or apples, those two things are their favorites, at least for mine


Thanks for the reply, I know I am already addicted to it and I just started my bins haha. Already thinking about where I can put more and bigger bins when the population starts growing in my current bins. They are only 13"x9" inside dimensions Rubbermaid Roughneck 3 gallon totes so they are pretty small but I like that too in a way so I can stick them around in different small spots that arent used by anything else. Id love to have a big ass bin one of those totes that are the size of a bathtub almost haha. But not the prettiest thing to look at in the house and outdoor bins are not possible in my climate of extreme heat and low humidity.

Oh ya I had added some moistened newspaper to the top of the feeding half of each bin a couple days ago when I fed them a little slurry. If you think it would benefit I can do a layer over the top of the whole bin.

No apples or grapes right now but are a pretty regular food item in the house so next time I will save the mushier grapes and stuff for them and old apple cores or over ripe apples. Ive been blending the food and veggie scraps in my Vitamix to a thick slop for them. Last batch was butternut squash, lettuce, banana peel, couple tbsp coffee grounds, parsley, a pineapple slice, couple pieces of cantelope and honeydew, some other random old crisper drawer items. They seem to like it and go through it fast but I do want to start experimenting with different foods separately in corners to see what they really go for the most if given the choice.


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 6, 2014)

Bueno Time said:


> Nice, made it through the whole thread now. I started my worm bins before finding this thread, Ive had my worms for a week and they seem to be doing well. They love pureed veggie/fruit with a little coffee grounds. Fed them a little corn meal/oatmeal/crab shell mix and they swarmed that too. Planning to feed them small amounts of dry amendments like some are doing, have to order some more amendments anyway, all I have is a half cup or so of crab shell right now and a couple tbsp of dolomite lime.
> 
> Im feeding on one side of my bins, I saw someone else posted in here how they do their bins half at a time, might do something like that with mine. Right now I am trying to gauge how fast they work the food I add so I havent added much food since I see more posts about bad things from adding too much food rather than too little (they will eat the bedding or cycle their own castings/bacteria/fungi if food is short/gone).
> 
> ...



Looks great Bueno!

Greasemonkey suggested it above, and I'll reiterate, get a layer of something on the top of the bedding. I use leaves (maple, cannabis, whatever). 

I feed on opposite sides of the bin each time, and I just scoop the leaves away from that side and lay down the slop/eggshells/amendments, little new bedding over top, and then scoop the leaves back in to place. Once a week routine


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## Pattahabi (Nov 7, 2014)

I use a piece of visqueen (plastic) on the top of the bin to keep the moisture in. 

P-


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## greasemonkeymann (Nov 7, 2014)

Pattahabi said:


> I use a piece of visqueen (plastic) on the top of the bin to keep the moisture in.
> 
> P-


I messed with a sheet of translucent hard plastic as a cover, the worms seemed to like it, they always be hangin out right under it, problem was the compost tended to smell a teensy bit, so I went back to the newspaper, the plastic seemed to work pretty well though, I imagine it'd be a better method to keep transpiration down, and the heat up too.


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## greasemonkeymann (Nov 7, 2014)

Bueno Time said:


> Thanks for the reply, I know I am already addicted to it and I just started my bins haha. Already thinking about where I can put more and bigger bins when the population starts growing in my current bins. They are only 13"x9" inside dimensions Rubbermaid Roughneck 3 gallon totes so they are pretty small but I like that too in a way so I can stick them around in different small spots that arent used by anything else. Id love to have a big ass bin one of those totes that are the size of a bathtub almost haha. But not the prettiest thing to look at in the house and outdoor bins are not possible in my climate of extreme heat and low humidity.
> 
> Oh ya I had added some moistened newspaper to the top of the feeding half of each bin a couple days ago when I fed them a little slurry. If you think it would benefit I can do a layer over the top of the whole bin.
> 
> No apples or grapes right now but are a pretty regular food item in the house so next time I will save the mushier grapes and stuff for them and old apple cores or over ripe apples. Ive been blending the food and veggie scraps in my Vitamix to a thick slop for them. Last batch was butternut squash, lettuce, banana peel, couple tbsp coffee grounds, parsley, a pineapple slice, couple pieces of cantelope and honeydew, some other random old crisper drawer items. They seem to like it and go through it fast but I do want to start experimenting with different foods separately in corners to see what they really go for the most if given the choice.


One thing that seems to REALLY speed up the process of producing EWC is to freeze the spoiling fruits/veggies before feeding, then let them defrost, and from what I've read the freezing explodes the cells of the food, and then defrosting them makes it a slimy mess, but it's like a pre-digest for the worms, the difference is about four days, for an apple, 2 days for them to eat it when frozen, 6 days when it's not frozen.
The fastest EWC is made from rotting grapes, in my experience anyways, but I haven't fed them everything


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## Pattahabi (Nov 7, 2014)

greasemonkeymann said:


> I messed with a sheet of translucent hard plastic as a cover, the worms seemed to like it, they always be hangin out right under it, problem was the compost tended to smell a teensy bit, so I went back to the newspaper, the plastic seemed to work pretty well though, I imagine it'd be a better method to keep transpiration down, and the heat up too.


This plastic is the black and white stuff. I just loosely lay a piece on the top and close the lid. Makes it really easy to pull it back and add materials. The worms definitely like doing their thing on the plastic lol! 

I really often freeze and thaw the food. I agree, it seems to really speed up the decomposition process!

Peace!

P-


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## Scroga (Nov 8, 2014)

Also how about seafood of sorts... Had a few lobster heads the other day... Thought about grinding them up and adding but decided it best to consult first... Also I am at a loss at how to harvest the castings from my three tiered Cafe.. I thought it was as easy as adding water to the top bin so they all retreat to the bottom. . But it doesn't seem to really work for me. .. Do I need to get a siv of some sort? 

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## Pattahabi (Nov 8, 2014)

Scroga said:


> Also how about seafood of sorts... Had a few lobster heads the other day... Thought about grinding them up and adding but decided it best to consult first... Also I am at a loss at how to harvest the castings from my three tiered Cafe.. I thought it was as easy as adding water to the top bin so they all retreat to the bottom. . But it doesn't seem to really work for me. .. Do I need to get a siv of some sort?
> 
> Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app


You need one of these!






I might not fill the worm bin with crustacean shells, but I don't think a little would hurt? The one thing I find is the more chunky and harder to digest the material, the longer it takes for the worms to work through it. So if you are looking for quick turn-around, probably don't want to put a lot of big food scraps, etc.

Peace!
P-


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 8, 2014)

Pattahabi said:


> You need one of these!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I need something like that. As it stands harvesting castings is right up there with trimming for my least favorite things to do


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## green_machine_two9er (Nov 10, 2014)

Finally got my vermicompster going. They seems to be eating fine, I have been adding kitchen scraps, newspaper and dry cannibus leaves about 2 lbs a week total browns/greens. How wet shouldi keep the trays. i am keeping my spicket open and have had no runoff at all. I am adding about 1/2 cup water a day to redampen newspaper layer on top. should there be runoff at this point? and also when should they start reproducing?


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 10, 2014)

green_machine_two9er said:


> Finally got my vermicompster going. They seems to be eating fine, I have been adding kitchen scraps, newspaper and dry cannibus leaves about 2 lbs a week total browns/greens. How wet shouldi keep the trays. i am keeping my spicket open and have had no runoff at all. I am adding about 1/2 cup water a day to redampen newspaper layer on top. should there be runoff at this point? and also when should they start reproducing?


Congrats!

The bedding should be moist, but not sopping wet. I'd say one notch up from how you want your soil to be.

I don't worry about keeping the top layer wet. I use leaves, and my thinking is that if the lower portions of the bedding/castings is too wet at a certain point the top layer is a more dry reprieve for them to migrate to.

I wet the bedding down when I first move them to a new bin, and that's it. The moisture from the veggie/fruit slurry that I add once a week keeps the bins at a nice level

Edit: they will start making sweet love very quickly. The first time you harvest a bin you will notice plenty of cocoons


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## Scroga (Nov 10, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Congrats!
> 
> The bedding should be moist, but not sopping wet. I'd say one notch up from how you want your soil to be.
> 
> ...


How do you keep your slurry bin free from ants and fruit fly? 

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## st0wandgrow (Nov 10, 2014)

Scroga said:


> How do you keep your slurry bin free from ants and fruit fly?
> 
> Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app


I keep the lid on, no holes drilled, just screen fastened over a piece that was cut out of the lid.


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## Scroga (Nov 10, 2014)

Do you add dirt or just let it stink out? And also another thing im unsure about is.. How does one know when is the right time to add dolomite and at how much? 

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## Scroga (Nov 10, 2014)

I posted before the pics showed up. ..is that coir in the mix? 

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## st0wandgrow (Nov 11, 2014)

Yes, I use coco coir and shredded brown paper as bedding. I don't add dolomitic lime, instead I sprinkle some pulverized egg shells in there every feeding


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## DonPetro (Nov 11, 2014)

I like to supplement my worms food with a blend of crushed eggshells, kelp meal, alfalfa meal, greensand, rock phosphate and zeolite. Just a sprinkle every feeding right on top of the food. Do not add lime.


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## greasemonkeymann (Nov 11, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> I need something like that. As it stands harvesting castings is right up there with trimming for my least favorite things to do


So true, I have a LOT of EWC to "harvest" but it's a total bitch to do it, more importantly its a pain in my back, especially after either a long day or a long week of wrenching on cars. I need to get a good trimmner, and a good EWC harvester. Gotta train somebody for this..


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## green_machine_two9er (Nov 11, 2014)

DonPetro said:


> I like to supplement my worms food with a blend of crushed eggshells, kelp meal, alfalfa meal, greensand, rock phosphate and zeolite. Just a sprinkle every feeding right on top of the food. Do not add lime.


thats perfect that i have all those now! does this help to end casting be more effective? or whats the reasoning behind adding the blend?
btw anyone use this bin?? amazon for 125$


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## Dr.D81 (Nov 11, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Yes, I use coco coir and shredded brown paper as bedding. I don't add dolomitic lime, instead I sprinkle some pulverized egg shells in there every feeding


I do the same but i did hit it with lime once


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 11, 2014)

Dr.D81 said:


> I do the same but i did hit it with lime once
> View attachment 3291471



That's a nice looking bin doc!


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## Dr.D81 (Nov 11, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> That's a nice looking bin doc!


That is a country boy special there. I got the freezer from my old boss when it went out, and the screen keeps them from crawling out in the thunder. It is also how i get my castings for teas.


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## HelpHub (Nov 11, 2014)

green_machine_two9er said:


> thats perfect that i have all those now! does this help to end casting be more effective? or whats the reasoning behind adding the blend?
> btw anyone use this bin?? amazon for 125$


I use that bin, The Worm Factory 360. I like it and find it pretty easy to harvest castings. When one tray is full you stop feeding in that one and put another tray on top and feed only in that one. Repeat as needed. The kit comes with 4 trays but you can stack even more than that.

By the time you are out of trays the bottom tray is niiicce and ready. Take that bottom tray and put it on top with the lid off. Any worms in that tray will flee the light down into the lower feeding tray. You can then just dump worm-free castings from that top tray. Pretty slick...


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## Mohican (Nov 11, 2014)

Is that mahogany doc?


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## Dr.D81 (Nov 11, 2014)

Mohican said:


> Is that mahogany doc?


Good eye Mo it is and finished with some oil


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## Javadog (Nov 11, 2014)

Good eye indeed. Fits like a glove. :0)


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## Mohican (Nov 12, 2014)

I was admiring the joints.


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## Scroga (Nov 12, 2014)

Why not to add dolomite ? The seller actually gave me a large bag with the farm. .... I have found that my little friends love. . Watermelon... They go crazy for it. .

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## Mohican (Nov 13, 2014)

I was amazed at how much they love cardboard!


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## keysareme (Nov 16, 2014)

Rising Moon said:


> Okay so lets talk about *FOOD*.
> 
> I am curious to hear what types of foods other feed to their worms,
> 
> ...


All the portions that I am not able to comfortably digest go into the worm bin. 11 months in and I have it stacked four trays high, and the worms are actively navigating both up and down. 

By now, the trays are entirely filled with soil/castings/vermiculture. No covers, just moist nutrient dense organic material, and lots and lots of small white baby worms. 

They get all the food I do not consume, and I even make a mush in the food processor occasionally.


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## Scroga (Nov 16, 2014)

Mine seem to have trouble breaking down grass clippings. .

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## Scroga (Nov 17, 2014)

Do you guys use your own castings in tea brewing or just collect the juice and use that? 

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## DonPetro (Nov 17, 2014)

Scroga said:


> Do you guys use your own castings in tea brewing or just collect the juice and use that?
> 
> Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app


Castings for sure. A little goes a long way when making teas.


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## DonTesla (Nov 19, 2014)

Mohican said:


> I was amazed at how much they love cardboard!


Right Mo? its choice! Babies love the corrugated coves like crazy. That, male roots, toilet paper rolls, leaves and coir makes a really decent bedding. Just don't use any rolls that have a double layer. They got a glue you can't see til the next day once wet. Good thing I soaked it in RO and saw it.


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## DonTesla (Nov 19, 2014)

DonPetro said:


> Castings for sure. A little goes a long way when making teas.


MicrobeMan says 2.38% is ideal amount that only about 1.5 Tbsp per litre of brew, or 6 Tbsp per gallon, its amazing-
Whatever life is in there either multiplies like crazy or grows like crazy!


----------



## Bueno Time (Nov 19, 2014)

I was having a little dig into the worm bins last night before feeding again and I saw some baby worms for my first time such small little things they were less than a cm long and threadlike but were redish so I think not freshly hatched but pretty close. A few cocoons I saw but not a ton there is a lot of worms in my little bins though since I only split my 2lbs between two real small bins 13"x9" they seem to be tearing through the bedding and food at a rapid rate.

I know I have a couple months until I harvest some finished castings but when I do Im going to split the population into the 4 13"x9" bins I have.


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## DonTesla (Nov 19, 2014)

green_machine_two9er said:


> thats perfect that i have all those now! does this help to end casting be more effective? or whats the reasoning behind adding the blend?
> btw anyone use this bin?? amazon for 125$


both brotha! the end product will have bio-available remnants but on top of that the worms sense it faster, they probably know inherently that they need to seek out granules, sand and shells to aid their digestion, since they don't have teeth, and depend on bacteria and belly rock to the work. Lol

Edit: To *Do* the work.


----------



## st0wandgrow (Nov 19, 2014)

DonTesla said:


> Right Mo? its choice! Babies love the corrugated coves like crazy. That, male roots, toilet paper rolls, leaves and coir makes a really decent bedding. Just don't use any rolls that have a double layer. They got a glue you can't see til the next day once wet. Good thing I soaked it in RO and saw it.


This topic was discussed on another organic forum. Apparently the glue that is used on toilet paper/paper towel rolls is made from a corn starch/wheat starch/potato starch/tapioca starch base along with small amounts of borates... and is harmless to worms.


----------



## DonTesla (Nov 19, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> This topic was discussed on another organic forum. Apparently the glue that is used on toilet paper/paper towel rolls is made from a corn starch/wheat starch/potato starch/tapioca starch base along with small amounts of borates... and is harmless to worms.


Very good to know, Stow. However, there are these other kinds of rolls (more industrial application) that are much thicker, and they produced a slimy white glue film. I may be paranoid lol but I didn't want to risk it. TP all the way tho.


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 19, 2014)

DonTesla said:


> Very good to know, Stow. However, there are these other kinds of rolls (more industrial application) that are much thicker, and they produced a slimy white glue film. I may be paranoid lol but I didn't want to risk it. TP all the way tho.


Ahh, gotcha. Not sure about that. I seem to recall reading that the starch based adhesives were the cheapest for companies to use, so probably a good bet that those would be used across the board. I guess it's better safe than sorry though.

I do know (at least here in the States) that any adhesives used in food packaging has to be food grade, so those would be fine as well


----------



## Mohican (Nov 19, 2014)

That is why I avoid products from overseas. USA made only!


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## green_machine_two9er (Nov 19, 2014)

Does anybody put worms into pots? Met some guy at grow store who swore by this.


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## Mohican (Nov 19, 2014)

Can't help it! Sometimes the pots are full of them


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## DonPetro (Nov 19, 2014)

Recently started giving the worms some cow manure and they LOVE it!


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## DonTesla (Nov 20, 2014)

DonPetro said:


> Castings for sure. A little goes a long way when making teas.


Did i give you your pump back bro? Looking for that little one; I put a little cloner together, so this bigger one's busy.


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 20, 2014)

DonPetro said:


> Recently started giving the worms some cow manure and they LOVE it!


Make sure the farmer isn't giving his cattle deworming medicine.

I've had a bad outcome from that before


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## DonTesla (Nov 20, 2014)

green_machine_two9er said:


> Does anybody put worms into pots? Met some guy at grow store who swore by this.


What city was I in? No jk ..Think I was mentioning this to someone else in a diff thread, but, imo
Very solid idea if your soil has under 50 in a cubic foot. They insane. They increase:
-water retention (aggregate building bio-slime)
-soil aeration (tunnels)
-speed of organic breakdown at the surface
-plus they give bacteria and such wild rides (to be considered great distances)

When we top dress sometimes just plunk a handful of worms from the worm farm and lay it under neath the mulch of choice. After this mulching chapter by Lownfels I'm considering making serious living mulch mixture each round, like 2-3 inches thick and having a slitted toilet paper roll chopped down to match protect the stem from 'infection'.


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## DonTesla (Nov 20, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Make sure the farmer isn't giving his cattle deworming medicine.
> 
> I've had a bad outcome from that before


!! DEworm the worms themselves ??!!
And what are you still doing up Stow!? do you wake up to alerts, lol


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## DonPetro (Nov 21, 2014)

DonTesla said:


> !! DEworm the worms themselves ??!!
> And what are you still doing up Stow!? do you wake up to alerts, lol


No these cattle are organically raised. No shots, antibiotics, or hormones of any kind.


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## machinegreenkelly (Nov 21, 2014)

Really enjoyed this thread. Could you guys help with some DIY worm composting bin setups (PICS) or the best book/website to research Vermicomposting further...? Not that this is a bad resource... Just hard to follow without pictures and structural reading per say (ADHD). Thanks all!


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## machinegreenkelly (Nov 21, 2014)

Has anyone tried feeding actual fish food to the worms yet? I always thought it would make a fair fertilizer or an addtional nutrient to the soil mix............... (All this being based off the grinded up fish content listed in the nutrition fact label on the side of the container).


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## DonTesla (Nov 21, 2014)

DonPetro said:


> No these cattle are organically raised. No shots, antibiotics, or hormones of any kind.


PROPER!!!! can i get a box of burgers!??! lol


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 21, 2014)

DonTesla said:


> PROPER!!!! can i get a box of burgers!??! lol


Not sure about up in Canada, but certain dewromers can be used for "organic" cattle here in the states. Fenbendazole, ivermectin, and moxidectin are allowed to be used if conventional organic remedies fail. There is a 90 day moratorium on the milk produced from these cattle, and they cannot be used as organic slaughter stock either.

I couldn't find any info on wether the resulting poop (composted or not) can be marketed as organic though, so I don't feel too comfortable using it moving forward. It wiped out an entire bin of mine in a matter of a couple weeks. Bin full of dead worms

edit: shit, I meant to quote DP's message above about cattle raised on organic farms


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## DonPetro (Nov 21, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Not sure about up in Canada, but certain dewromers can be used for "organic" cattle here in the states. Fenbendazole, ivermectin, and moxidectin are allowed to be used if conventional organic remedies fail. There is a 90 day moratorium on the milk produced from these cattle, and they cannot be used as organic slaughter stock either.
> 
> I couldn't find any info on wether the resulting poop (composted or not) can be marketed as organic though, so I don't feel too comfortable using it moving forward. It wiped out an entire bin of mine in a matter of a couple weeks. Bin full of dead worms
> 
> edit: shit, I meant to quote DP's message above about cattle raised on organic farms


I am definitely being cautious with how much im adding to the bin. So far so good. I just screened and binned another 10 gallons of manure tonight. Whatever doesnt make it through the screen goes in the compost pile. Im hoping to avoid buying bagged soil from here on out. Just the occasional coco brick from my online source.


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## Mohican (Nov 21, 2014)

Added more leaves to the garden. I am thinking about pouring out my worms on the north garden dirt.



I water the leaves every day trying to get them to break down faster. I checked the worm bin and was surprised how dry it was. I gave them a good bit of water and some kelp.

Cheers,
Mo


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## Dr.D81 (Nov 21, 2014)

Looks like we need to get dez and have a work day on the screen house


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 21, 2014)

DonPetro said:


> I am definitely being cautious with how much im adding to the bin. So far so good. I just screened and binned another 10 gallons of manure tonight. Whatever doesnt make it through the screen goes in the compost pile. Im hoping to avoid buying bagged soil from here on out. Just the occasional coco brick from my online source.


Do you know the person that you're getting the poop from? If so then that makes a big difference IMO. I'd feel perfectly comfortable using it if that were the case


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 21, 2014)

Mohican said:


> Added more leaves to the garden. I am thinking about pouring out my worms on the north garden dirt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can run those leaves over with your lawn mower and sprinkle something on them high in N (I use alfalfa pellets/bunny food) which will accelerate the decomposition


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## DonTesla (Nov 22, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> You can run those leaves over with your lawn mower and sprinkle something on them high in N (I use alfalfa pellets/bunny food) which will accelerate the decomposition


I vote dozens of real life rabbits half-dipped in green alfalfa glop! 

And the cows are via a close friend of the fam, Stowly Lama i mean Dali Stowma- we golden or are we golden!?


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## Dr.D81 (Nov 22, 2014)

My next worm bed is going to be in a old tub under rabbits. Should have it together soon.


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## Mohican (Nov 22, 2014)

I threw some blood meal on them last year. Not sure wich N source I will use this year. Maybe some Urea from the dairy farmers in Norco.


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## DonPetro (Nov 22, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Do you know the person that you're getting the poop from? If so then that makes a big difference IMO. I'd feel perfectly comfortable using it if that were the case


Yea this farm has been my second home my whole life. It might even be mine someday.


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 22, 2014)

Dr.D81 said:


> My next worm bed is going to be in a old tub under rabbits. Should have it together soon.


I have a friend that set something like that up. Those worms tear through that rabbit shit!

He raises the rabbits for meat though. Poor fuzzy bunnies.


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## cannakis (Nov 22, 2014)

Rising Moon said:


> I now feed my worms all sorts of selected goodies and treats:
> 
> Wakame kelp
> 
> ...


man i Love this.! i wish i had the same.! do we lose any nutrients or benefits if we were to Just have it mixed in soil or gain? do we lose any when worms digest the food?


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## cannakis (Nov 22, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> I have a friend that set something like that up. Those worms tear through that rabbit shit!
> 
> He raises the rabbits for meat though. Poor fuzzy bunnies.


nice i really like that! i need to do that!


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## Javadog (Nov 22, 2014)

I gotta admit that I like the meat idea too.

I broached the subject with the wife at some point.
She is still dubious, but there is time. :0)

JD


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## CannaBare (Nov 22, 2014)

I looked into it at one point. I read rabbit meat is the best meat for you. I'm not sure how much grass they eat a month + alfalfa but on amazon it goes for 100 for 50lbs of orchard grass. Great deal. 

How fast do your rabbits go through a pound of grass Stow? I want to raise rabbits but it has to be economical.

http://www.amazon.com/Oxbow-Animal-Health-Orchard-50-Pound/dp/B000WFPJUY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416681187&sr=8-1&keywords=orchard+grass+hay+50


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## DonTesla (Nov 22, 2014)

machinegreenkelly said:


> Really enjoyed this thread. Could you guys help with some DIY worm composting bin setups (PICS) or the best book/website to research Vermicomposting further...? Not that this is a bad resource... Just hard to follow without pictures and structural reading per say (ADHD). Thanks all!


here's some pics, they say a lot if u note the screen mesh bottoms, and way they can slide, lock and stack, best luck bruv!!


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## DonTesla (Nov 22, 2014)

machinegreenkelly said:


> Really enjoyed this thread. Could you guys help with some DIY worm composting bin setups (PICS) or the best book/website to research Vermicomposting further...? Not that this is a bad resource... Just hard to follow without pictures and structural reading per say (ADHD). Thanks all!


post 1059 in this thread is for u bro.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-dons-organic-garden.815786/page-53#post-11078690
Couldn't load here at the time


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## Mohican (Nov 22, 2014)

I wonder how they taste when they are fed cannabis?


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 22, 2014)

Mohican said:


> I wonder how they taste when they are fed cannabis?


Buds Bunny.

Har har har.


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 22, 2014)

CannaBare said:


> I looked into it at one point. I read rabbit meat is the best meat for you. I'm not sure how much grass they eat a month + alfalfa but on amazon it goes for 100 for 50lbs of orchard grass. Great deal.
> 
> How fast do your rabbits go through a pound of grass Stow? I want to raise rabbits but it has to be economical.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Oxbow-Animal-Health-Orchard-50-Pound/dp/B000WFPJUY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416681187&sr=8-1&keywords=orchard grass hay 50


I only have two as pets. Completely different game than fattening them up for slaughter. I'll ask my bro what kind of feeding regiment he has. I know that he and his wife LOVE the meat. He says that's its essentially like all white meat chicken


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## DonPetro (Nov 22, 2014)

Just love the self-sustaining idea of it. Rabbits to eat and help feed your worms which in turn grows some dank ass meds.


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## Mohican (Nov 22, 2014)

Feed the clippings to the rabbits and it all starts the circle again!


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## hyroot (Nov 22, 2014)

@foreverflyhi has a video of his lion head bunny grubbing on some can a leaves.


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## Mohican (Nov 22, 2014)

Does he start singing rasta?


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 22, 2014)

hyroot said:


> @foreverflyhi has a video of his lion head bunny grubbing on some can a leaves.


Bunnies love munching on them!

My little Dutch girl snackin


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## Mohican (Nov 22, 2014)

Had a bunny for a few months. He loved rose petals!


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## foreverflyhi (Nov 22, 2014)

hyroot said:


> @foreverflyhi has a video of his lion head bunny grubbing on some can a leaves.


I'll post that up in a few days.
Till then






When I empty my bunnies litter. I usually let the poops dry out before I put them in the wormbin, not sure how the worms would react to the urine..


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## Dr.D81 (Nov 22, 2014)

st0wandgrow post: 11078724 said:


> I have a friend that set something like that up. Those worms tear through that rabbit shit!
> 
> He raises the rabbits for meat though. Poor fuzzy bunnies.


Well i got my pen to my place from my old place up north side of the state. I will work on it tomorrow and get some pics up. I picked up my 6 ft coated chicken wire for a new chicken pen too. I eat my rabbits, chickens, and eggs also man


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 23, 2014)

Dr.D81 said:


> Well i got my pen to my place from my old place up north side of the state. I will work on it tomorrow and get some pics up. I picked up my 6 ft coated chicken wire for a new chicken pen too. I eat my rabbits, chickens, and eggs also man


I'm a recovering carnivore. 

I do like me some eggs though!


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## DonTesla (Nov 23, 2014)

DonPetro said:


> Just love the self-sustaining idea of it. Rabbits to eat and help feed your worms which in turn grows some dank ass meds.


Y'all making me want some rabbits now! I don't think I'd eat mine though. Breed them maybe if i could find a pink and a purple one, lol


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## Dr.D81 (Nov 23, 2014)

DonTesla said:


> Y'all making me want some rabbits now! I don't think I'd eat mine though. Breed them maybe if i could find a pink and a purple one, lol


They are tasty don. Plus it is meat you know what it was feed. Makes great burritos


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## DonTesla (Nov 23, 2014)

Dr.D81 said:


> They are tasty don. Plus it is meat you know what it was feed. Makes great burritos


Bunnritos??? Hmm...I'd have to grow uglier ones than ForeverFlyHi gots cause damn, them be cute lil suckers


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## DonPetro (Nov 23, 2014)

DonTesla said:


> Bunnritos??? Hmm...I'd have to grow uglier ones than ForeverFlyHi gots cause damn, them be cute lil suckers


I used to have a rabbit...pretty sure he got ate. When i have a place in the country im gonna have rabbits and chickens.


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## foreverflyhi (Nov 23, 2014)

I'm not a violent person. But if any of y'all even look at my bunny the wrong way. Lol

Like most animals, bunnies, chickens, even cows, have much higher value alive then to be butchered for meat.


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## Dr.D81 (Nov 23, 2014)

foreverflyhi said:


> I'm not a violent person. But if any of y'all even look at my bunny the wrong way. Lol
> 
> Like most animals, bunnies, chickens, even cows, have much higher value alive then to be butchered for meat.


There gets a point went they are better as food. At two years of laying chickens eat more and lay less so they go to the stew pot. Rabbits breed at a rate that makes them a effective sustainable food source.


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 24, 2014)

DonTesla said:


> Bunnritos??? Hmm...I'd have to grow uglier ones than ForeverFlyHi gots cause damn, them be cute lil suckers


Haha! He is a cute little thing isn't he?!?!


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## st0wandgrow (Nov 24, 2014)

We let our bunnies finish off our veggie garden once everything is cut down. They clean things up a bit and shit all over the place which becomes fertilizer for next years crop.

They're working on a little herb plot made out of a recycled hydro reservoir here...


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## Mohican (Nov 24, 2014)

Mrs Mo said she had a bunny in college that used a litter box and lived in her appartment. So when we had James Dean, she would let him loose in the house.

He loved my spendy monster cable!




Cheers,
Mo


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## DonTesla (Nov 24, 2014)

Hahaha much too cute to consider burrito bounty.. as for the more normal, donkey-looking rabbits, how much do they breed before that bitter-sweet or shall we say savoury 2nd birthday?? 

That garden clean up and refuelling is too slick!


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## Dr.D81 (Nov 24, 2014)

DonTesla said:


> Hahaha much too cute to consider burrito bounty.. as for the more normal, donkey-looking rabbits, how much do they breed before that bitter-sweet or shall we say savoury 2nd birthday??
> 
> That garden clean up and refuelling is too slick!


The 2 years is for laying hens. Rabbits you get to the size you want and kill it. Most every animal you want as young as possible so it is tender. The two year old hens are tuff and only suitable for stew and stock.


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## Mohican (Nov 24, 2014)

Coq au vin! Old cocks stewed in red wine! Those French can make anything taste good!


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## Dr.D81 (Nov 24, 2014)

Mohican said:


> Coq au vin! Old cocks stewed in red wine! Those French can make anything taste good!


Yea slow is the key to tuff meat


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## Scroga (Nov 24, 2014)

Mohican said:


> Mrs Mo said she had a bunny in college that used a litter box and lived in her appartment. So when we had James Dean, she would let him loose in the house.
> 
> He loved my spendy monster cable!
> 
> ...


What's with bunnies and cables? Found out after they where gone that mine loved to gnaw on the various extension cords and stereo wires in the house. . Most cables were fair game. .

Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app


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## Mohican (Nov 24, 2014)

First pair of speaker wires that I ever bought new, and now they look like that! I should have eaten that rabbit! He would have tasted like wire insulation!


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## Scroga (Nov 24, 2014)

Hahaha

Sent from my GT-S7580L using Rollitup mobile app


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## Javadog (Nov 24, 2014)

Great stuff Doc. I am thinking of raising meat too.

As to the French and tricks for tough meat, check out the
Confit ("Cone-Fee"). By this technique, the meat is baked
in a clay pot. I had it at a restaurant. Nice.

JD

P.S. That was a very rough depiction of what a confit is...
...I looked it up...it was a method of preserving foods too.


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## ZoBudd (Nov 30, 2014)

i got my first container of red wigglers by posting a message on freecycle, or my local community gardening list. Now, I'm sharing them with others.

Give it a try. Lots of city veggie gardeners are really taking up vermicomposting these days.


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## Dr.D81 (Nov 30, 2014)

I collected some castings today to top dress my led garden, and put some on the tomatoes i am trying to keep threw winter. When i was getting them i told my 4 year old girl that was worm poop, and then i scraped some with my had. With out missing a beat she said " eww you touched worm poop "


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## Javadog (Dec 1, 2014)

LOL!

I knew that I was a Father when I found myself holding some 
piece of cloth under running water, as I worried the shit off/out 
of it with my finger.

JD


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## Bueno Time (Dec 2, 2014)

Its only been a month and my worm bins are looking great. Digging in yesterday I was surprised the bedding is almost all turned to casting already and looks much better than any casting I have bought. Probably another month and the bins will be almost pure casting. Tons of baby worms and seems like there are more mature worms than I started with unless they are just fat and healthy now but I grab a hand full of the bedding/cast and there is a load of worms in it. I think they are tearing through the bedding and food so fast because of the high density of worms in my little bins. Still laying cocoons and hundreds of babies in the bins so apparently they arent too worried about living in a small space and not over populated.

Should be able to use some homemade ewc on my next cycle coming up in a month or so.


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## greasemonkeymann (Dec 2, 2014)

Bueno Time said:


> Its only been a month and my worm bins are looking great. Digging in yesterday I was surprised the bedding is almost all turned to casting already and looks much better than any casting I have bought. Probably another month and the bins will be almost pure casting. Tons of baby worms and seems like there are more mature worms than I started with unless they are just fat and healthy now but I grab a hand full of the bedding/cast and there is a load of worms in it. I think they are tearing through the bedding and food so fast because of the high density of worms in my little bins. Still laying cocoons and hundreds of babies in the bins so apparently they arent too worried about living in a small space and not over populated.
> 
> Should be able to use some homemade ewc on my next cycle coming up in a month or so.


wormbins are so addictive, i'm in CA, and we are having historically huge rainfall, and I've rescued about 45 earthworms from puddles and such, I hope they like their new redworm neighbors


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## Chronikool (Dec 2, 2014)

greasemonkeymann said:


> wormbins are so addictive, i'm in CA, and we are having historically huge rainfall, and I've rescued about 45 earthworms from puddles and such, I hope they like their new redworm neighbors


Depending on how deep/big your binz are...i suspect the earthwormz wont like it


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## greasemonkeymann (Dec 2, 2014)

Chronikool said:


> Depending on how deep/big your binz are...i suspect the earthwormz wont like it


yeah I think you are right, but considering their alternative was slowly drowning in a huge puddle, they should be thankful damnit!
my bin(s) are about 18-24 inches deep


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## ekim046 (Dec 2, 2014)

Bueno Time said:


> Nice, made it through the whole thread now. I started my worm bins before finding this thread, Ive had my worms for a week and they seem to be doing well. They love pureed veggie/fruit with a little coffee grounds. Fed them a little corn meal/oatmeal/crab shell mix and they swarmed that too. Planning to feed them small amounts of dry amendments like some are doing, have to order some more amendments anyway, all I have is a half cup or so of crab shell right now and a couple tbsp of dolomite lime.
> 
> Im feeding on one side of my bins, I saw someone else posted in here how they do their bins half at a time, might do something like that with mine. Right now I am trying to gauge how fast they work the food I add so I havent added much food since I see more posts about bad things from adding too much food rather than too little (they will eat the bedding or cycle their own castings/bacteria/fungi if food is short/gone).
> 
> ...


looks just like mine  home depot?


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## ekim046 (Dec 2, 2014)

I've looked around and it looks like nobody really uses mushroom compost! 
I grow gourmet mushrooms as another side hobby and am always left with alot of mushroom compost.
If there are any other Mycologists or would be mycologists out there, I really recommend to not throw away the mushroom leftovers.
Paul Stamets himself said that mushroom compost is a wonderful amendment for soils and should not be overlooked. 

Here is a quick mushroom compost 101 vid I found on youtube:


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## Bueno Time (Dec 2, 2014)

ekim046 said:


> looks just like mine  home depot?


Wal-Mart but I did see them at HD too


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## Mohican (Dec 2, 2014)

Feed it to the worms!


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## Dr.D81 (Dec 2, 2014)

greasemonkeymann said:


> yeah I think you are right, but considering their alternative was slowly drowning in a huge puddle, they should be thankful damnit!
> my bin(s) are about 18-24 inches deep


They will live in a ben, but not multiply. Dont know why but that is what will happen.


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## DonPetro (Dec 2, 2014)

I put some large night crawlers in my bin once and they got ravaged by the soil mites. They didn't last long.


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## Dr.D81 (Dec 2, 2014)

DonPetro said:


> I put some large night crawlers in my bin once and they got ravaged by the soil mites. They didn't last long.


Damn twice now i have keep them for like two months befor they started dieing off.


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## st0wandgrow (Dec 2, 2014)

DonPetro said:


> I put some large night crawlers in my bin once and they got ravaged by the soil mites. They didn't last long.


No shit? Wonder why they don't bother with the wigglers?


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## Dr.D81 (Dec 2, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> No shit? Wonder why they don't bother with the wigglers?


We have reds in the ground here, but had both at my old place about 200 miles north of here.


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## Mohican (Dec 2, 2014)

All of the worm guys say red wigglers only. No nightcrawlers.


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## Dr.D81 (Dec 2, 2014)

Mohican said:


> All of the worm guys say red wigglers only. No nightcrawlers.


That is all i have in mine now but i would keep the night crawlers because they would go away in the hot summer up there, and i fish.


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## DonPetro (Dec 2, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> No shit? Wonder why they don't bother with the wigglers?


Im thinking it has something to do with the exudes. The night crawlers seemed to have a much drier "skin" than the wigglers who always exhibit a glossy sheen.


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## Mohican (Dec 2, 2014)

My dad told me that you put night crawlers in rabbit manure and the worms get huge and multiply. Said you could make a fortune selling the worms to fishermen. That was my introduction to the world of worm farming.


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## Dr.D81 (Dec 2, 2014)

Mohican said:


> My dad told me that you put night crawlers in rabbit manure and the worms get huge and multiply. Said you could make a fortune selling the worms to fishermen. That was my introduction to the world of worm farming.


I will have to bring some down in the spring and see. I got the rabbit cage moved and some crap taken off. Now i have to rebuild the doors, and build the frame to mount the tub under it. I have some people checking for some of the big ass rabbits for it.


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## Mohican (Dec 2, 2014)

Research the rabbits to see whether there is a better breed for its manure.


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## Dr.D81 (Dec 2, 2014)

Mohican said:


> Research the rabbits to see whether there is a better breed for its manure.


I want the big ones because i am going to be eating them.


----------



## Mohican (Dec 3, 2014)

Do they taste better though? In Hawaii you couldn't own a black dog, because there were people who ate black dog as a delicacy. 
I have had rabbit at the french restaurant. I prefer the duck


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## greasemonkeymann (Dec 3, 2014)

Dr.D81 said:


> They will live in a ben, but not multiply. Dont know why but that is what will happen.


Got home, smoked a bowl last night, and had a better idea, I put them in my no-till 100 gallon smartpot, they are in there with a nice cover crop of nitro-fixin legumes.


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## hyroot (Dec 3, 2014)

greasemonkeymann said:


> Got home, smoked a bowl last night, and had a better idea, I put them in my no-till 100 gallon smartpot, they are in there with a nice cover crop of nitro-fixin legumes.


I've always wondered about using cover crops in worm bins.

if they're not multiplying in a Rubbermaid. The bedding may be to shallow. Or not enough air holes.


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## greasemonkeymann (Dec 3, 2014)

hyroot said:


> I've always wondered about using cover crops in worm bins.
> 
> if they're not multiplying in a Rubbermaid. The bedding may be to shallow. Or not enough air holes.


well, my smartie is for next years outside crop, one of em anyways.
I don't know about a cover crop for wormbins, seems like it'd be a bitch to harvest the castings, not to mention it'd probably go dry a lil more often, maybe for a huge outside vermicomposting project?


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## Mohican (Dec 3, 2014)

Smart pots work great!


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## st0wandgrow (Dec 5, 2014)

CannaBare said:


> I looked into it at one point. I read rabbit meat is the best meat for you. I'm not sure how much grass they eat a month + alfalfa but on amazon it goes for 100 for 50lbs of orchard grass. Great deal.
> 
> How fast do your rabbits go through a pound of grass Stow? I want to raise rabbits but it has to be economical.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Oxbow-Animal-Health-Orchard-50-Pound/dp/B000WFPJUY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416681187&sr=8-1&keywords=orchard grass hay 50


I checked with my buddy that raises rabbits. He said you want a New Zealand buck whcih go for about $50-$75 around here. Then he breeds him to Californian females because apparently the New Zealands are a little agressive and the Californians are very chill (imagine that). He feeds them some type of high protein rabbit food to fatten them up along with alfalfa/timothy hay. He has 1 male and three doe's, and he harvested about 250lbs of meat from them in the past 12-14 months from the resulting kits. He figured he spent about $450 on food during that time, so around a $1.80 per pound. I haven't bought meat in ages so I couldn't tell you if that's a good deal or not??


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## Dr.D81 (Dec 5, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> I checked with my buddy that raises rabbits. He said you want a New Zealand buck whcih go for about $50-$75 around here. Then he breeds him to Californian females because apparently the New Zealands are a little agressive and the Californians are very chill (imagine that). He feeds them some type of high protein rabbit food to fatten them up along with alfalfa/timothy hay. He has 1 male and three doe's, and he harvested about 250lbs of meat from them in the past 12-14 months from the resulting kits. He figured he spent about $450 on food during that time, so around a $1.80 per pound. I haven't bought meat in ages so I couldn't tell you if that's a good deal or not??


Not bad meat goes $2.00 to $6.00 lb. Then you have steak and shit $ 8.00 lb and up


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## Mohican (Dec 6, 2014)

I buy roasts and grind my own burger meat. Ribeye burgers 

I also make some killer meatball blends.

Now I want meatballs. I wonder whether there is a good vegan meatball recipe?


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## Mohican (Aug 8, 2015)

Animal Cookies from the Sacramento After Harvest BBQ growing in the worm bin:



Cheers,
Mo


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## greasemonkeymann (Aug 10, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Animal Cookies from the Sacramento After Harvest BBQ growing in the worm bin:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that's a nice and green looking plant ya got there, did you regenerate it? or did it flower early and get confused?.. looks like it wasn't sure which way to go there.
I hate it when plants do that... one reason why I switched my veg room to 15/9 schedule, the damn ladies would flower in june..
That's a nice lookin one to the right of the plant to (our left in the pic)
Off topic.. looks like you have a pool... man I miss my old house, had a pool and a bunch of fattie plants around it... used to love to swim around and get whiffs of the plants as I swam around or messed with my girlfriend in the pool..
ahhh good times...


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## Mohican (Aug 10, 2015)

Yes, she flowered early. I took some clones so I could give it another try.


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## greasemonkeymann (Aug 10, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Yes, she flowered early. I took some clones so I could give it another try.


HATE that when it happens...
The crappy thing about running clones instead of seeds, it's not like you can start a clone outside in march...
well you could...
I want to setup a couple clones next year, and then get a couple bright ass LEDs that I could put outside on them to extend the day...
My old house had a 400w MH as a "farm" light, so in the winter/spring i'd put a big old bluedream under it, in a half wine-barrel planter.
Let that lady vege all the way through until august.
I got a friggin tree from doing that... the stalk was probably 8" in diameter.
man what a whore it was to trim and harvest that thing, it was like ten feet high, and ten feet round...
I didn't weigh it but i'm sure I got like at least 4 lbs off that beast.
In fact I found a jar of some leftover nugs of that earlier this year, and I think that plant was from 2004 or maybe 2005.
Smoked a nug, and it got me ripped as hell... tasted a lil bland and was a bit harsh and dry... but blasted me all the same..


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## Mohican (Aug 10, 2015)

I have run four crops outside in one year. My December and March crops come out the best.


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## Dr.D81 (Aug 10, 2015)

well i looked today mo and have worms under the rabbit pen. it has been so dry it took them a while to move in. have some going in a tote too till we find a deep freeze to put over at papapyene's


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## Mohican (Aug 10, 2015)

I use an old refrigerator as a garden cabinet outside. Maybe I will clean out the freezer side and make it a worm bin!

Two of my Rebar clones already have roots after 3 days!


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## Richard Drysift (Aug 10, 2015)

This is an awesome thread. Tried scrolling through all 28 pages and I did not see anyone making this suggestion: freeze organic food scraps you want feed to your worms first then thaw them out & add to your bin. Any veggie scraps or rotten fruit will break down & get all slimey VERY quickly after thawing & your worms will love it- I keep a big plastic ziplok bag in my freezer for whatever veggie/fruit scraps, eggshells, coffee grounds, etc. I want to make into worm food...I usually pull out maybe a handful of frozen scraps every week or 2 to mix with some dry cannabis leaf and/or broken down egg cartons- let it thaw for 8 hrs or so & then I add my amendments (ie kelp, gypsum, lime, alfalfa.etc.) before feeding it to the worms


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## Javadog (Aug 10, 2015)

It probably breaks things down a bit too. Thanks for sharing. :0)


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## Mohican (Aug 11, 2015)

Don't skim. It makes a sk out of i and m.


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## greasemonkeymann (Aug 11, 2015)

Richard Drysift said:


> This is an awesome thread. Tried scrolling through all 28 pages and I did not see anyone making this suggestion: freeze organic food scraps you want feed to your worms first then thaw them out & add to your bin. Any veggie scraps or rotten fruit will break down & get all slimey VERY quickly after thawing & your worms will love it- I keep a big plastic ziplok bag in my freezer for whatever veggie/fruit scraps, eggshells, coffee grounds, etc. I want to make into worm food...I usually pull out maybe a handful of frozen scraps every week or 2 to mix with some dry cannabis leaf and/or broken down egg cartons- let it thaw for 8 hrs or so & then I add my amendments (ie kelp, gypsum, lime, alfalfa.etc.) before feeding it to the worms


Absolutely the ONLY way to do that!
very good advice, probably cuts the worms consuming "time" to about a third of what fresh fruit/veggies will do.
In fact I get the produce bags from the store (they are good plastic ones, not the chinsy thin ones) anyways, after freezing I put them in those plastic bags, and after thawing I mash it all up into a gross slimy puree type of thing, then I dig a hole in the wormbin, and plop that bastard in there, then cover up, and in about two hours they'll be a writhing mass of worms..
From what I can tell, worms def have favorite foods..
FRUIT... thawed and squished...
melon, pears (my favorite because the seeds are tiny), apples, grapes, mangos, tomatoes...
I quit giving them my coffee grinds about a yr ago. Those take forever for them to eat.
BUT I have found that coffee grinds are a good nitrogen input for my compost pile.
If you get to know any people that work at fruitstands or a grocery store, and you could put together some kickass wormcastings
Or you could dumpster dive..


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## Richard Drysift (Aug 11, 2015)

Yeah they sure love soft & sweet fruits like bananas, strawberries, plums, and Apple cores- all gone wit the quickness. My own diet has gotten healthier somewhat as a result of choosing healthy scraps for the worms.
I stopped giving them newspaper shreds- thinking maybe they don't like the ink - shit takes forever to break down. Also found out they won't eat waxed paper like from a butter package. Empty egg cartons rip up & break down easily so that's a main source of fiber I give them along with lots of old dry cannabis leaves.


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## hyroot (Aug 11, 2015)

Mohican said:


> I have run four crops outside in one year. My December and March crops come out the best.



Same here. No heat. Winter crops are the best for socal.


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## HelpHub (Aug 14, 2015)

I freeze all my food scraps before feeding them to the worms also.

There is, no joke, more worm food in my freezer than people food!


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## hyroot (Aug 14, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Animal Cookies from the Sacramento After Harvest BBQ growing in the worm bin:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Have you flowered the ac before this? It's the smallest yielder I have ever grown. Marble size buds.


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## Dr.D81 (Aug 14, 2015)

hyroot said:


> Have you flowered the ac before this? It's the smallest yielder I have ever grown. Marble size buds.


It gave me the same it got a few beans from it and the dog kush. I have three going now and they pok great


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## Pattahabi (Aug 15, 2015)

Richard Drysift said:


> This is an awesome thread. Tried scrolling through all 28 pages and I did not see anyone making this suggestion: freeze organic food scraps you want feed to your worms first then thaw them out & add to your bin. Any veggie scraps or rotten fruit will break down & get all slimey VERY quickly after thawing & your worms will love it- I keep a big plastic ziplok bag in my freezer for whatever veggie/fruit scraps, eggshells, coffee grounds, etc. I want to make into worm food...I usually pull out maybe a handful of frozen scraps every week or 2 to mix with some dry cannabis leaf and/or broken down egg cartons- let it thaw for 8 hrs or so & then I add my amendments (ie kelp, gypsum, lime, alfalfa.etc.) before feeding it to the worms


This is great advise. We do a lot of juicing and eat a lot of veggies. All scraps go in a plastic bag in the freezer even for a day or two, thaw and serve lol! I usually mix it up with a little fresh compost, maybe some coffee grounds, and the worms go crazy.

Peace!

P-


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## Mohican (Aug 15, 2015)

I had a box of kelp meal that got wet and was a mess. I stuck the whole thing on top of the worm bin and slow soaked it for an hour. Now the box is full of worms and the Animal Cookies is stacking like mad!








I am going to venture out in the 100 degree sun and see whether I can get a good pic of the worms.


Cheers,
Mo


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## Mohican (Aug 15, 2015)

Worms in kelp meal box:




Animal Cookies Flowers:






Cheers,
Mo


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## Joedank (Aug 15, 2015)

Mohican said:


> My dad told me that you put night crawlers in rabbit manure and the worms get huge and multiply. Said you could make a fortune selling the worms to fishermen. That was my introduction to the world of worm farming.


that was a whole scam that was run for a short time . mail order get rich quick style... one of the first long distance pyramid scams...
it popped up recently too ...:
Industrial users failed to materialize in anywhere near the numbers needed to justify the 3,000 growers B&B signed up. Purported deals with partners ranging from Tyson Foods to the government of an African nation were never consummated. Investigators said the company appeared to stay afloat in part by purchasing worms from contract farmers like Decker and reselling them not to industrial users, but to newly signed worm farmers.
http://www.happydranch.com/articles/Worms_Turned_Disaster_for_Farmers.htm


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## MustangStudFarm (Aug 16, 2015)

Pattahabi said:


> This is great advise. We do a lot of juicing and eat a lot of veggies. All scraps go in a plastic bag in the freezer even for a day or two, thaw and serve lol! I usually mix it up with a little fresh compost, maybe some coffee grounds, and the worms go crazy.
> 
> Peace!
> 
> P-


 I really wanted to get into juicing and start cutting meat from my diet. My wife asked what we could do with the puree other than jam. Does the juice help with your energy level?


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## Mohican (Aug 16, 2015)

I read a study that said it is better to eat the whole fruits and vegetables. You get the benefits of the fiber and the chewing process releases enzymes in your saliva that help with digestion and sugar uptake.


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## MustangStudFarm (Aug 16, 2015)

Mohican said:


> I read a study that said it is better to eat the whole fruits and vegetables. You get the benefits of the fiber and the chewing process releases enzymes in your saliva that help with digestion and sugar uptake.


 I really wanted to use it to replace some bad things like a 3rd cup of coffee. I like fruit and veggies, but it is hard to get an abundance of them everyday... I would rather eat fruit than chocolate but I often fall short on vegtables. I heard of others that juice in the morning and it increases energy. It would be hard to eat that many veggies by noon. I am totally not disagreeing with you. I really liked how you made your meatballs, and that is my problem. I probably eat too much meat.


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## MustangStudFarm (Aug 16, 2015)

Back to composting. I found black soldier flies in my bin again. Do they do anything other than keep the fruit flies at bay? I have a nice population... Do worm bins attract harmful insects? I just put my bin inside with my plants with a/c, it was getting too hot outside and I noticed several kinds of insects. 
Last month, I found red mites and I thought that they were the bad kind. I think that they were predatory mites and I didnt have to buy them online!


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## 240sxing (Aug 16, 2015)

Hello worm farmers , glad to see a thread , had my red wigglers for 6 months now love the hobbies and the rewards. Pics coming soon.


MustangStudFarm said:


> Back to composting. I found black soldier flies in my bin again. Do they do anything other than keep the fruit flies at bay? I have a nice population... Do worm bins attract harmful insects? I just put my bin inside with my plants with a/c, it was getting too hot outside and I noticed several kinds of insects.
> Last month, I found red mites and I thought that they were the bad kind. I think that they were predatory mites and I didnt have to buy them online!


Black soldiers flys larva are used in composting bins and work great , google it , now that being said not a problem but i wouldnt want them, lol.


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## 240sxing (Aug 16, 2015)

I run my bin a little different , 18 gallon tote holes drilled in top and sides couple inches down from top. And when I feed I mix up for aeration, never had the problem most due with escapees. 

Here's a picture of bin surface and the casting.


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## 240sxing (Aug 16, 2015)

And those white looking worms are sprouts I just pulled. Which is a good indicator that the bin is doing good.


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## hyroot (Sep 8, 2015)

Plastic stacking bins or wood stacking bins? 

I know wood is better but being that I live in a very dry climate I was thinking I should run plastic bins. My old plastic bins not stacked and open, it would dry out and I had to spray them down to add moisture then add leaves or cardboard. 

I'm thinking plastic ones stacked will retain moisture better than wood bins.


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## 240sxing (Sep 8, 2015)

To me the housing isn't as important as the bedding , but either would be fine. I personally would stay away from wood.


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## Dr.D81 (Sep 8, 2015)

I am using a 28 gallon black tuff tote for one. The other is under the rabbit pen.


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## 240sxing (Sep 8, 2015)

Smart on the rabbit pen automatic feed and one of the best sources of food for them.


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## hyroot (Sep 9, 2015)

I have a bunch of 18 gal rubber maids already. Half are empty. Half are filled with recycled soil.

I have everything I plan on using for bedding. I have 3 paper grocery bags filled with dry canna leaves. Half a bale of peatmoss, half a bale of coco, then a bunch of egg shells and veggie scraps and coffee grounds. I don't like using cardboard and newspaper.


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## Mohican (Sep 10, 2015)

I thought cardboard was a waste too. Then I tried it. They love the stuff, and they eat it like piranhas! The Kelp Meal box I put in the worm bin is missing it's entire side where the worms ate it away getting to the kelp.

The Pizza Hut boxes look untouched. That is my biggest problem - finding virgin untreated cardboard.


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## Mohican (Sep 10, 2015)

Animal Cookies grown in the worm bin:




Cheers,
Mo


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## Dr.D81 (Sep 10, 2015)

Mohican said:


> I thought cardboard was a waste too. Then I tried it. They love the stuff, and they eat it like piranhas! The Kelp Meal box I put in the worm bin is missing it's entire side where the worms ate it away getting to the kelp.
> 
> The Pizza Hut boxes look untouched. That is my biggest problem - finding virgin untreated cardboard.


Go to a cabinet shop or a lumber yard. The kind of lumber yard that handles high end plywood. They use 4x8 sheets the cover the palettes and they throw tons away.


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## hyroot (Sep 10, 2015)

Everytime I used cardboard and newspaper. It had to compost on it's own. The worms never touched it. They ate everything else.


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## Dr.D81 (Sep 10, 2015)

hyroot said:


> Everytime I used cardboard and newspaper. It had to compost on it's own. The worms never touched it. They ate everything else.


I never use news print but they really like the cardboard. I have not used any except 2 1\2 dozens egg flats in my current bins. I have so much hay poo mix from the rabbits i havnt needed it.


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## hyroot (Sep 10, 2015)

Dr.D81 said:


> I never use news print but they really like the cardboard. I have not used any except 2 1\2 dozens egg flats in my current bins. I have so much hay poo mix from the rabbits i havnt needed it.



I get the organic brown eggs that come in a clear plastic container with 2 dozen eggs. No cartons. I'm using coco and peatmoss instead of cardboard.

Try and sell your extra castings locally then. I plan on having 4 bins stacked in 3's going by next month. So 12 bins total. I have a bunch of people who don't have room for bins. They order worm power castings from build a soil. Which is far better quality than the agrowynn castings I used to use. The worm power costs $50 with shipping for a cu ft. So I'm going to flip mine for $25 -$30 a cu ft.. I should have 10 extra cu ft per batch.


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## Dr.D81 (Sep 11, 2015)

hyroot said:


> I get the organic brown eggs that come in a clear plastic container w ith 2 dozen eggs. No cartons. I'm using coco and peatmoss instead of cardboard.
> 
> Try and sell your extra castings locally then. I plan on having 4 bins stacked in 3's going by next month. So 12 bins total. I have a bunch of people who don't have room for bins. They order worm power castings from build a soil. Which is far better quality than the agrowynn castings I used to use. The worm power costs $50 with shipping for a cu ft. So I'm going to flip mine for $25 -$30 a cu ft.. I should have 10 extra cu ft per batch.


Right on you should do well. I will be going to 275 gallon batches of tea next year so i will be using as much as i can produce.


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## Mohican (Sep 11, 2015)

Ohhhhh - I can't wait to see it!


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## 4ftRoots (Sep 11, 2015)

HelpHub said:


> I freeze all my food scraps before feeding them to the worms also.
> 
> There is, no joke, more worm food in my freezer than people food!


This was getting on my nerves so I did a test and I found freezing is not necessary but does improve the breakdown time. The best thing you can do for your worm bin is grinding the food. I bought an 8 cup grinder that I collect and grind food in. takes about 2 days for regular food to disappear and a week for high acid things like orange peals. One day I plan to reroute my garbage disposal to a strainer then down the drain.


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## drekoushranada (Sep 11, 2015)

Gosh I need to hurry up and get a worm bin going. I Think I will purchase a worm factory 360 this weekend. If you all suggest something else please feel free to let me know.


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## HelpHub (Sep 12, 2015)

drekoushranada said:


> Gosh I need to hurry up and get a worm bin going. I Think I will purchase a worm factory 360 this weekend. If you all suggest something else please feel free to let me know.


I'm happy with mine. Upside is harvesting castings and separating the worms when you do so is really easy. Downside might be that they are kinda expensive. Well built though...


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## Mohican (Sep 12, 2015)

I just use a party tub for beer cans and fill it with a 4 inch layer of promix (to absorb the goodness) and then on top of that a #20 smart pot full of promix and scraps. Cover the smart pot to keep out the bugs and you are done. It worked great! Now I just fill a trashcan with promix and part of a worm bin and grow in it and feed the worms. It works great!



Cheers,
Mo


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## HelpHub (Sep 13, 2015)

4ftRoots said:


> This was getting on my nerves so I did a test and I found freezing is not necessary but does improve the breakdown time..


My worm bin is in my kitchen so I found that freezing the food scraps first keeps down the fruit fly population.


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## machinegreenkelly (Sep 15, 2015)

I am planning on harvesting in 4-5 weeks and I am wondering if there would be any real benefit to purchase Uncle Jim's 2000 count red wigglers and split them between my 30x 20gal fabric pots to assist with aeration and added castings? This is an outdoor grow and the daytime temps will be around 70-75F and dropping to low 40's during the evenings. I plan on recycling the soil after harvest and was going to put worms in the recycled soil at that point anyways. Thanks.


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## hyroot (Sep 15, 2015)

Here's a thought. I have about 10 7gal fabric pots. I don't use them anymore.

I want a flow through system. What if I were to drill holes in the bottom of the fabric pots and stack them like wooden flow through bins. Do you think it would work good.

Or I could cut out most of the bottom and replace with 1/4" mesh which I already have from when I made my sifter.

I understand 7 gal is small for worms but stacked....

I want to use what I already have in stock. So Rubbermaid bins or fabric pots.


Thoughts. ......?

@Rrog what do you think.


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## Mohican (Sep 16, 2015)

Smart pots work great. You could wrap them with Glad wrap if they get too dry.

Animal Cookies Worm Bin Dried:



Cheers,
Mo


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## Rrog (Sep 16, 2015)

You could stack the bags as you suggested. Just need enough holes in the bag bottom for them to climb upwards. 

I used 15 gallon geopots for worm bins a few winters ago. Pots were on wire mesh bases for ventilation. These were simply in-tact bags, no stacking and it worked great!

I think worms work many ways


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## hyroot (Sep 16, 2015)

Rrog said:


> You could stack the bags as you suggested. Just need enough holes in the bag bottom for them to climb upwards.
> 
> I used 15 gallon geopots for worm bins a few winters ago. Pots were on wire mesh bases for ventilation. These were simply in-tact bags, no stacking and it worked great!
> 
> I think worms work many ways



I started braining out on the pots. Thinking of cutting out 4 big holes on the bottom of each. Just leaving a strip cross shape of fabric on the bottom to hold it together.

Then make an individual table screen for each pot to sit on. Then set a table screen on top of a pot. Then stack another pot on top of that screen. Worms can crawl through the screen. Having a table screen between each pot would make the pots more stable and even when stacked.


I already have some 1x2's just need to grab 3 more. I already have the 1/4" mesh. Then some plywood for the bottom base and the lid . Then I can stack 4 pots and be stable. Another $15 to spend.


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## Rrog (Sep 16, 2015)

hyroot said:


> Then make an individual table screen for each pot to sit on. Then set a table screen on top of a pot. Then stack another pot on top of that screen. Worms can crawl through the screen. Having a table screen between each pot would make the pots more stable and even when stacked.


Perfect. You will see benefits of the fabric sides for breathing, vs a hard side plastic worm bin.


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## Richard Drysift (Sep 18, 2015)

Just harvested another tray of perty black gold! They just won't eat eggshells- these have been tossed from bottom to top tray a couple times already in hopes they will be gone yet here they still are...should I just get rid of them or does anyone think the worms will eat them eventually? Eggshells do provide calcium to the finished compost right? What else can I give them instead?


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## 4ftRoots (Sep 18, 2015)

I hardly sift well. As the castings sit they break down the matter even further until you use it. When I topdress you can see chunks of crab shell and egg shells and they just get buried over time of worms rooting around. Your castings look great


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## Richard Drysift (Sep 18, 2015)

4ftRoots said:


> I hardly sift well. As the castings sit they break down the matter even further until you use it. When I topdress you can see chunks of crab shell and egg shells and they just get buried over time of worms rooting around. Your castings look great


Hey thanx...so I can just crush them up a bit & leave them in the castings? I plan to add the castings to some recycled soil but won't be used for awhile; it still needs to "cook" in a tote bin for a month or so at least.


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## 4ftRoots (Sep 18, 2015)

Yeah if you want you can crush them up to give more surface area but it will still take a while to break down. It really acts as aeration until it becomes small enough to be ingested by worms. Letting it cook would be a good way to break it down further but putting it in a true living no till bed with worms is the only way to go in my opinion.

I don't know if you sift all the worms out but leaving 10 or more in finished castings helps keep it in great condition.


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## 4ftRoots (Sep 18, 2015)

hyroot said:


> I started braining out on the pots. Thinking of cutting out 4 big holes on the bottom of each. Just leaving a strip cross shape of fabric on the bottom to hold it together.
> 
> Then make an individual table screen for each pot to sit on. Then set a table screen on top of a pot. Then stack another pot on top of that screen. Worms can crawl through the screen. Having a table screen between each pot would make the pots more stable and even when stacked.
> 
> ...


If you don't want to destroy the pots you can scatter the holes and make them much smaller since worms are really small. 1/2 inch holes should do it and 1inch would be more than enough. Then you can use the pots later and they wont fall apart on you now. And dumping the castings wont be as messy. I like the mesh idea. But I would put it in the base of each pot so it is easier to keep track of. KISS

Edit: I really think you will hate the cross on the bottom. It will spill castings everywhere


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## hyroot (Sep 18, 2015)

4ftRoots said:


> If you don't want to destroy the pots you can scatter the holes and make them much smaller since worms are really small. 1/2 inch holes should do it and 1inch would be more than enough. Then you can use the pots later and they wont fall apart on you now. And dumping the castings wont be as messy. I like the mesh idea. But I would put it in the base of each pot so it is easier to keep track of. KISS
> 
> Edit: I really think you will hate the cross on the bottom. It will spill castings everywhere



That's what I meant about placing the mesh at the bottom of each pot. Not inside the pot. More like set each pot on top of the mesh / frame. Cut out 4 large holes. Then I can stack them and have flow through style bins.


I don't plan on ever using the pots again for mj. Maybe use them again for veggies. I've had them for 5 years. They dry inconsistently. Without roots sucking up moisture. The bins moisture should be easier to manage.


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## Richard Drysift (Sep 18, 2015)

4ftRoots said:


> Yeah if you want you can crush them up to give more surface area but it will still take a while to break down. It really acts as aeration until it becomes small enough to be ingested by worms. Letting it cook would be a good way to break it down further but putting it in a true living no till bed with worms is the only way to go in my opinion.
> 
> I don't know if you sift all the worms out but leaving 10 or more in finished castings helps keep it in great condition.


I put the eggshells back in the top tray hoping they will eventually get broken down. Caught a whole bunch of worms -maybe 30 of em- in my castings this time even though I was trying to sift them out. They sure populated these trays wicked fast- gonna hafta add more soon. Figured they would be very happy rolling around in the recycle bin. Thanx for the advice


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## Mohican (Sep 19, 2015)

I bake and grind my eggshells now because I got tired of finding them whole in my garden year after year!







Cheers,
Mo


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## Dr.D81 (Sep 19, 2015)

Mohican said:


> I bake and grind my eggshells now because I got tired of finding them whole in my garden year after year!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very cool mo! I like that and will be doing it next batch i throw in.


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## Smidge34 (Sep 19, 2015)

I bought the cheapest Mr. Coffee grinder, $10 I think. Makes grinding large batches of shells a breeze.


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## Mohican (Sep 19, 2015)

Wy wife got me the mortar and pestle for Xmas so I really wanted to use it. It took a while but it was great therapy


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## Smidge34 (Sep 19, 2015)

Mo's definitely a mortar and pestle kinda guy though!


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## Smidge34 (Sep 19, 2015)

Lmao! I typed out my last post before you posted Mo!


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## Dr.D81 (Sep 19, 2015)

Smidge34 said:


> Mo's definitely a mortar and pestle kinda guy though!


Yes he is and i am kind of partial to them too. My grandmother had one i played with as a kid


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## hyroot (Sep 19, 2015)

I got my mortar and pestle at costco. It's the stone kind that you see at El Torito when they make guacamole at your table in one.


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## MustangStudFarm (Sep 19, 2015)

Mohican said:


> I bake and grind my eggshells now because I got tired of finding them whole in my garden year after year!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Good idea to bake them first. I bet it is cleaner and easier to crush!


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## machinegreenkelly (Sep 21, 2015)

Anyone try giving their worms Exlax yet?


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## Smidge34 (Sep 22, 2015)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Good idea to bake them first. I bet it is cleaner and easier to crush!


Yes, easier, cleaner and it kills any possible Salmonella threat as well.


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## Rrog (Sep 22, 2015)

I eat raw eggs daily for years in shakes


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## Smidge34 (Sep 22, 2015)

I screwed triple digit chicks in the navy and college put together, never wore a rubber and never caught anything that required a doctor's care. Still, not very smart. I didn't catch anything IN SPITE OF not wrapping up.


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## anzohaze (Sep 22, 2015)

Does anyone use long tables or bins daisy chained together so worms will move thru different bins sorta like worm bin 360 but instead of stacking tall stack side by side so they you can just harvest a while tray t once


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## Rrog (Sep 22, 2015)

I'm thinking the vertical stack is what works. The fact that there aren't any sideways bins (that I've seen) prolly means something. Look at the Worm Inn Mega for an alternative to vertical trays stacked.


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## ShLUbY (Sep 26, 2015)

def just take up too much space on the floor. I'm gonna try and get my worm bins together tomorrow. I have a shit ton of soil to mix up tonight first. Well to me it's a lot! three 20 gals


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## ShLUbY (Sep 27, 2015)

so I have this sunshine mix #4 left over which has some lime in it already from the company.... only have 3-4 gallons of it left. did i read not to put the worms in with lime? i was gonna use this stuff as some of the bedding... along with the leftover coco i have...


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## Dr.D81 (Sep 27, 2015)

ShLUbY said:


> so I have this sunshine mix #4 left over which has some lime in it already from the company.... only have 3-4 gallons of it left. did i read not to put the worms in with lime? i was gonna use this stuff as some of the bedding... along with the leftover coco i have...


I have to add lime from time to time to keep the ph right and them happy. i would think you should be ok


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## Wetdog (Sep 27, 2015)

My bedding is peat based and lime is a MUST with the peat. It's way too acidic for the worms otherwise.

Wet


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## 4ftRoots (Sep 27, 2015)

You can't go wrong with shredded cardboard. I bought a paper shredder for 50 bucks huge 20 paper one and I shred cardboard. No lime, no anything except leftovers. The compost comes out dark and the worms reproduce quick when I strain


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## Kind Sir (Sep 27, 2015)

What kind of bin do you guys use? Is it necessary to buy/build a multiple bin setup? I want to order my worms today but not 100% sure what type of bin to build.

@Wetdog


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## Dr.D81 (Sep 27, 2015)

Kind Sir said:


> What kind of bin do you guys use? Is it necessary to buy/build a multiple bin setup? I want to order my worms today but not 100% sure what type of bin to build.
> 
> @Wetdog


No it is not i have two bens. One is a 27 gal tuff tote and one is a open bottom box under a rabbit pen. I have used chest deep freezers, old school big satellite dishes, and lined plywood troughs


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## Mohican (Sep 28, 2015)

I use a trash can and I just grow directly in the worms. Saves me the hassle of collecting the castings


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## Smidge34 (Sep 28, 2015)

I'm at the point of building a homemade sifter like the expensive rotating model, using a couple 5 gallon buckets, brackets and 1/8" or 1/4" hardware cloth. Eighth inch seems awfully tight and I don't mind a little vermicomposting, so u guys think 1/4" is too big? I'm not too worried about the egg pods, but would like to keep my bigger worms separate.


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## 240sxing (Sep 28, 2015)

Just made one don't use 1/4 get the 1/8. I thought when I bought it, it looked big and it is , worms and large objects did make it to the end but the castings wasn't the finest and would still need sifting and young worms , babies , and cocoons fall right threw.


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## Mohican (Sep 29, 2015)

I agree - 1/8th.


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## Dr.D81 (Sep 29, 2015)

Mohican said:


> I agree - 1/8th.


If you use 1\16 it will leave the worm cask and only pull out the castings. I have been using it for a couple years now.


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## Wetdog (Sep 29, 2015)

There was a DIY on YouTube where the guy used bungee cords to facilitate using different mesh size screens. That impressed me.

I like having the babies and cocoons in the VC. Now, I add very little if any to a fresh mix. The heat from cooking also cooked many of the babies and cocoons. Now I mainly add the VC as the mix is being used and the mix stays loaded with worms. Top dressing with worm rich VC inoculates wherever it is used. Containers, raised bed gardens, flower beds and so on.

I also treat the VC like a 'sorta' worm bin, adding just a bit of food and keeping the moisture levels right. Any big worms go back to the bin. The little ones and cocoons get applied with the VC.

Wet


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## Wetdog (Sep 29, 2015)

Kind Sir said:


> What kind of bin do you guys use? Is it necessary to buy/build a multiple bin setup? I want to order my worms today but not 100% sure what type of bin to build.
> 
> @Wetdog


I'm still using the 18 gal Rubbermaid totes I started with 5-6 years ago. Running 2 of them. The DIY bit was on *Redworm Composting* Still is, but you need to search a bit.

But, like Dr.D81 and Mohican show, many things can be used for bins. Worms aren't all that picky.

Wet


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## hyroot (Sep 29, 2015)

Home deps and lowes around here doesn't sell any mesh smaller than 1/4"

That's what I use for my sifter. Some worms get through. But I catch them when it happens. My sifter is 12" x 12" so I only sift a small amount at a time. It takes me about 20 min to fill up a home deps orange 5 gal bucket.


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## 240sxing (Sep 29, 2015)

My fix I used was window screening same thing I use for sifting and just wrapped around the 1/4 and the bungie cords. Still not to happy but speeds up the process and isn't back breaking like hand sifting.


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## Wetdog (Sep 29, 2015)

hyroot said:


> Home deps and lowes around here doesn't sell any mesh smaller than 1/4"
> 
> That's what I use for my sifter. Some worms get through. But I catch them when it happens. My sifter is 12" x 12" so I only sift a small amount at a time. It takes me about 20 min to fill up a home deps orange 5 gal bucket.


Check out Ace Hardware. I know they have 1/4 and 1/8" mesh cause I bought some. IIRC, even some 1/16", but I passed on that, it was so tiny.

Wet


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## Dr.D81 (Oct 2, 2015)

Haha guys i was sifting castings today and got to looking at my sifter. It is made with 1\8 in wire on a mahogany frame @Mohican know the one i am talking about. I was all kinds of wrong but i do have 30 gallos of aact brewing up


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## greasemonkeymann (Oct 2, 2015)

Smidge34 said:


> I'm at the point of building a homemade sifter like the expensive rotating model, using a couple 5 gallon buckets, brackets and 1/8" or 1/4" hardware cloth. Eighth inch seems awfully tight and I don't mind a little vermicomposting, so u guys think 1/4" is too big? I'm not too worried about the egg pods, but would like to keep my bigger worms separate.


I like to use the plastic needlepoint screens. Work perfectly and it's smooth as to not hurt the cocoons.
If you are interested, here is how I did it.
Works well, especially when your worm population is low, and you want to maximize saving all the cocoons.
Course now I have like a billion worms...
https://www.rollitup.org/t/excellent-way-to-harvest-homemade-ewc.863032/#post-11389522


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## hyroot (Oct 3, 2015)

I have a roll 1/4" mesh. I layered 1 screen over another on my sifter I made last year that has 1/4" mesh already. So it made them close to 1/8" that way.


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## ShLUbY (Oct 5, 2015)

Worm food porn??

Juiced a shit ton of apples and canned a bunch of cider... put a bunch of baggies full of this pulp in the freezer for future food stock since they like apples so much  can't wait to get to the worm bins.... just need to stop doing other projects like this lol
 

little over 5 gal canned so far. this year the taste is superb... last year there were no apples. I wonder if that has anything to do with it? Cheers...


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## 4ftRoots (Oct 5, 2015)

ShLUbY said:


> Worm food porn??View attachment 3514888
> 
> Juiced a shit ton of apples and canned a bunch of cider... put a bunch of baggies full of this pulp in the freezer for future food stock since they like apples so much  can't wait to get to the worm bins.... just need to stop doing other projects like this lol
> View attachment 3514890
> ...


Amazing and yum yum yum!


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## Dr.D81 (Oct 6, 2015)

@papapayne this is a good place to start looking at different worm setups


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## green_machine_two9er (Oct 6, 2015)

Hello fellow worm farmers. Im looking to up my worm game this year. only have a 360 stacking bin so far, and although it seems to work great and i love the design, I need something to actually produce enough casting for what i go through. So..... I have an old tent style garage thing. I want to use this to HOPEFULLY get a happy worm factory going year round outside. 
My plan is to place this tent right on top of my setpic tank. than build a smaller insolated room inside of which i plan to build my bins. I can always pull some of my exhaust from my flowering roooms to help supliment heat if i gets to cold out there over winter. I think i can keep it about 50 degrees, with the ground heat and ventilation combined. 

Any sure fire ways anyone knows to build bins? 

And compared to my multileveled worm bin, most of you guys are not making stackable bins correct? just larger size containers which would be sifted? 
would this larger bins stop feeding to prepare to harvesting? or just seperating the raw greens and browns and worms during the sifting?

Im in michigan and if anyone thinks my outdoor tent wont work due to heat please chime in!
Thanks for any and all replies!


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## Mohican (Oct 7, 2015)

The worms are still chewing on the Kelp Meal box:




Cheers,
Mo


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## ShLUbY (Oct 7, 2015)

Mohican said:


> The worms are still chewing on the Kelp Meal box:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol damn they're still workin on that kelp meal??? how'd the animal cookies turn out mo?


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## Kind Sir (Oct 7, 2015)

How long can veggies/fruits sit in bags in the deep freeze? Its extra cold in there, could they last a month or is that rediculous. It seems long nust curious.


Whats your guys favoirite bedding


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## hyroot (Oct 8, 2015)

Kind Sir said:


> How long can veggies/fruits sit in bags in the deep freeze? Its extra cold in there, could they last a month or is that rediculous. It seems long nust curious.
> 
> Whats your guys favoirite bedding


I've kept some veggies in the freezer for 3 months. Lettuce, blueberries, strawberries, avaocado. They were fine.

I use a mix of peat moss, coco, and dried shredded leaves for bedding.


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## Kind Sir (Oct 8, 2015)

Thanks for the reply. I was going to build my first worm bin out of these 15 gallon totes that are really thick and sturdy.

https://jet.com/product/detail/a97fa153e5104ed1b9eb60da5ae4bb94?gclid=CjwKEAjwhdOwBRDFsYTfhvzX1hYSJAAfCUcLFs1-xmHbvV8rzNYwqHzTsWgaHfIbrbFjfJkxXppXCxoC42Lw_wcB

Whered you initially order your worms?


----------



## hyroot (Oct 8, 2015)

Kind Sir said:


> Thanks for the reply. I was going to build my first worm bin out of these 15 gallon totes that are really thick and sturdy.
> 
> https://jet.com/product/detail/a97fa153e5104ed1b9eb60da5ae4bb94?gclid=CjwKEAjwhdOwBRDFsYTfhvzX1hYSJAAfCUcLFs1-xmHbvV8rzNYwqHzTsWgaHfIbrbFjfJkxXppXCxoC42Lw_wcB
> 
> Whered you initially order your worms?



Uncle Jims worm farm


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## HelpHub (Oct 8, 2015)

I keep my fruits and veggies in the freezer...until I use 'em. I try to practice First In First Out but I don't sweat it.

I make my initial bedding out of coco coir, egg shells, cardboard, neem seed meal, azomite...whatever you want to end up in your final castings.

I get my worms from Uncle Jim as well and if you use coupon code "UNCLE10" at checkout you'll get 10% off your order.

Not an agent of Uncle Jim's, just a happy customer on his mailing list.


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## hempstead (Oct 30, 2015)

I just started a worm bin 2 weeks ago and have a few questions if any of you can answer.



I started reading and answered most of my questions. 

What about old moldy ammonia smelling cannabis? Is it safe to throw in there?


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## Mohican (Oct 30, 2015)

Yes!


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## calliandra (Dec 1, 2015)

Hello ye wise vermicomposters, great to find this thread!

I have just adopted a worm bin of a friend's that had gone anaerobic and caused wiggler armagedon. 
Only like 20-30 worms survived, but by the smell of it, the bin is now recovering 

I peeked in today and saw these white worm/caterpillar thingies:


They're about an inch long and can wiggle along pretty fast, diving under the bedding & also digging themselves into the more earthy parts when I open the bin.

Anyone know what they are and whether good guys or bad?
Googling "white worm/caterpillar thingie" hasn't helped any... 
Cheers!


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## Javadog (Dec 1, 2015)

It is not the noisiest of our threads, but an imprtant one. :0)

Dude....those look like Soldier Fly Larvae.....that would be most positive.

Lets see what the consensus is....they are just so big....


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## hempstead (Dec 1, 2015)

They are good in that they help break stuff down but bad if indoors because they will eventually mature and fly out of there.
Here is a page you can find more info at.
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/1669281/what-is-this-in-my-compost-bin


If it is soldier fly larvae then here is what I found on wikipedia.

*Black soldier fly larvae and redworms[edit]*
Worm farmers often get larvae in their worm bins. Larvae are best at quickly converting "high-nutrient" waste into animal feed.[15] Redworms are better at converting high-cellulosematerials (paper, cardboard, leaves, plant materials except wood) into an excellent soil amendment.

Redworms thrive on the residue produced by the fly larvae, but larvae leachate ("tea") contains enzymes and tends to be too acidic for worms. The activity of larvae can keep temperatures around a 100°F, while redworms require cooler temperatures. Most attempts to raise large numbers of larvae with redworms in the same container, at the same time, are unsuccessful. Worms have been able to survive in/under grub bins when the bottom is the ground. Redworms can live in grub bins when a large number of larvae are not present. Worms can be added if the larval population gets low (in the cold season) and worms can be raised in grub bins while awaiting eggs from wild black soldier flies.

As a feeder species, BSFL are not known to be intermediate hosts of parasitic worms that infect poultry, while redworms are host to many.[16]


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## Javadog (Dec 1, 2015)

"As a feeder species, BSFL are not known to be intermediate hosts of parasitic worms that infect poultry, while redworms are host to many.[16]"

Good to know! 10Q


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## calliandra (Dec 1, 2015)

Wow amazing, there are people who actually use them en masse for composting - the world's full of wonders, not sure I'm in on that one (I don't have poultry lol)

Yeah they do look pretty similar -- but are way larger... so maybe it's a fly, but some other, bigger one?
In any case I think I'll be opening the bin near a window in a few weeks in case these grow up and become airborne


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## kkt3 (Dec 4, 2015)

What I like about my worm bins is when I take some of the castings out for tea or top dressing, the worms fill in the hole left behind with more castings. Seems like they want to keep their yard all level and stuff!!!


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## Andrew2112 (Dec 4, 2015)

Javadog said:


> "As a feeder species, BSFL are not known to be intermediate hosts of parasitic worms that infect poultry, while redworms are host to many.[16]"
> 
> Good to know! 10Q


Can the parasites transfer to humans?


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## Rrog (Dec 4, 2015)

I've done much reading on vermicomposting in addition to doing it. Not questioning the red wiggler's potential to host a parasite. Let's not confuse that with red wigglers automatically have anything parasitic, however Just like you have the potential for a parasite, but you probably don't 

I'm not recalling any paper or case study that even describe a parasitic problem with composting red wigglers. I would therefore say it's an unlikely event statistically 

Would love references to this being an issue when doing common vermicomposting


----------



## hempstead (Dec 4, 2015)

Rrog said:


> I've done much reading on vermicomposting in addition to doing it. Not questioning the red wiggler's potential to host a parasite. Let's not confuse that with red wigglers automatically have anything parasitic, however Just like you have the potential for a parasite, but you probably don't
> 
> I'm not recalling any paper or case study that even describe a parasitic problem with composting red wigglers. I would therefore say it's an unlikely event statistically
> 
> Would love references to this being an issue when doing common vermicomposting


Does this help? It is the #16 footnote off of wikipedia. I just skimmed briefly and it may have the info you are looking for if you use your worms for chicken feed. http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/poultry/helminthiasis/overview_of_helminthiasis_in_poultry.html


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## Rrog (Dec 4, 2015)

That article lists quite a few hosts to parasites. Cockroaches, flies, moths. 

I guess regardless of what you're feeding to an animal, you would want to make sure it wasn't contaminated. That's true for anything, not just a red wiggler 

Again, it would be a shame if the take away from this thread was that red wigglers host parasites


----------



## hempstead (Dec 4, 2015)

Rrog said:


> That article lists quite a few hosts to parasites. Cockroaches, flies, moths.
> 
> I guess regardless of what you're feeding to an animal, you would want to make sure it wasn't contaminated. That's true for anything, not just a red wiggler
> 
> Again, it would be a shame if the take away from this thread was that red wigglers host parasites


Unless you are eating them then I do not think you have to worry. If you are eating them then just be sure to cook them. Lots of meats contain parasites and that is why we cook them. Once cooked then the parasites are just added protein.


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## Rrog (Dec 4, 2015)

I think the concern would be a parasites ability to be passed to the vermicompost and infect whatever you are amending 

This is the aspect I have not heard portrayed as a risk. Again, not saying that you can't have some issue, but it seems might rare if it happens 

The goodness of the red wiggler in from a compost is unquestionably worth any extremely remote risk. You're more likely to get infected through some other host such as a beetle or bird dropping


----------



## hempstead (Dec 4, 2015)

Rrog said:


> I think the concern would be a parasites ability to be passed to the vermicompost and infect whatever you are amending
> 
> This is the aspect I have not heard portrayed as a risk. Again, not saying that you can't have some issue, but it seems might rare if it happens
> 
> The goodness of the red wiggler in from a compost is unquestionably worth any extremely remote risk. You're more likely to get infected through some other host such as a beetle or bird dropping


As a feeder species, BSFL are not known to be intermediate hosts of parasitic worms that infect poultry, while redworms are host to many.[16]
Key phrase is "As a feeder species".
This is referring to eating the actual worm itself and not for a soil amendment. Many people raise worms and other insects to feed their chickens. It will not hurt you or your plants unless you are eating the worms raw.


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## hempstead (Dec 5, 2015)

Does anyone throw worms in a used pot of soil? I read that if you throw a few in with the old rootball and let it sit a bit while keeping it moist then you can reuse it in a month or so. Sannie has said that even without the worms that you can replant in a pot for a second grow. He also said you should keep the old rootball in because not only will it break down and help feed the new plant but the mature mycor fungi will survive and attach to the new roots.


----------



## Rrog (Dec 5, 2015)

I think I agree with all of that. Leaving the root ball alone and replanting immediately means you have an active microbial universe ready to plug into your new plant. No wait time. 

Microbes quickly break down any dead vegetation from the old plant and store it for later use

How cool is that


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## hempstead (Dec 5, 2015)

I just killed a male Soliloqueen and threw some worms in the pot. I will be throwing a Shit seedling in it soon to see how it does.


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## Javadog (Dec 5, 2015)

Great idea. Thanks for sharing!


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## calliandra (Dec 6, 2015)

Soo, the white [possibly oversized black soldier fly] larvae had disappeared the next day (almost more annoyingly than their ever having appeared! )and I was beginning to think things are settling in the bin....I even saw a baby wiggler and took it as a sign to feed for the first time in 2 weeks.

When I went to do that though, I realized the bin contents (mainly just castings at the mo) have warmed up again  Not steaming, but hand warm 

It's happening in this flowthrough worm bin system:

I took it over 2 weeks ago from a friend after it had gone badly anaerobic and her worms were dying in masses.
It was way too wet and the stench of rot was unbearable (she was only adding fruit & veggies, hardly any bedding) - so much so, that I gave up on the upper tray immediately and dumped it out into the garden, leaving me with the contents of the lower tray, pretty much composted, but also gone steamy hot (I thought it was because of the runoff from above).

I divided that up between 2 trays, which I lined and covered with dry leaves, and the bin cooled down & the worms stopped dying.

The only thing I did before today was sprinkle the top tray with some neem meal yesterday because a bunch of fungus gnats had appeared.
Could it be that the whole bin is warming up again just because of _that_??

I decided to feed anyways, in the bottom -better smelling- tray where ALL the (surviving 20-30) worms are. I spread mush of previously frozen lettuce, kale, pears, and almond skins pancake style onto a spot, having filtered out some of the juice, as not to add too much water to the bin:


Then I covered everything up with cardboard scraps and put this tray on top.


The trays are so shallow you can't really layer much... just a bit in the topmost one...
So I'm getting the feeling I should actually dump the second tray out, as there are no worms in there and keeps leaning more towards the stinky side & "generating" bugs and stuff lol.

Is this sensible or am I thinking in way the wrong direction?
Cheers!


----------



## goodjoint (Dec 9, 2015)

Very nice thread! 
Do you guys ever add pumice or any aeration to your bins?


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## Rrog (Dec 10, 2015)

Yep!


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## hyroot (Dec 12, 2015)

I was told about another place to get worms from and worm castings and compost. Recommended by Coots. It's better than worm power and uncle jims and build a soil

http://www.northwestredworms.com


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 12, 2015)

Rising Moon said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> I thought the Organic section could use a *dedicated thread about all things WORMS!
> *
> ...


Thanks for the thread. I'm doing worm farms in bags for my outdoor. I use to use boxes until I learned this trick.I use chicken wire, landscape fabric, and some plastic zip ties. However I had not really done any reading about worm farms other than the fact they were expensive. Anyway, I'll be checking this out. I post my indoor in the 600w Club, but I'll be posting my outdoor on another thread. Anyway, thanks again O.G.


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## 240sxing (Dec 12, 2015)

Worms are expensive ? Right now is the time to buy think I paid 40$ shipped for 2000 last year.


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 12, 2015)

240sxing said:


> Worms are expensive ? Right now is the time to buy think I paid 40$ shipped for 2000 last year.


It wasn't the price worms that scared me off, it was the kits. I* glanced* over some of the sites that came up on Google and then wandered out in the yard and did my own thing. Apparently, I'm using the wrong worms and definitely not feeding them correctly. I'm going to do some research before I ask a bunch of stupid questions. I think that the poster _*The Cheapsta *_and I must be related. We kinda think alike. My 600w Club indoor posts make it look like I have a lot invested, but almost everything is second hand or rebuilt. I do have 4 new ballasts but that's because the price for digital plummeted. Even my outdoor from this year that I posted cost less than $1000. ( I have a dump truck)  Oh yea, where did you get your worms?


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## 240sxing (Dec 12, 2015)

I purchased mine from Uncle jims, also I use 18 gallon totes drilled holes in upper and lid sections. But yeah the kits can be expensive.


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 12, 2015)

Excellent! However I do have certain concerns. I once got 1500 ladybugs, and I'm telling you, that's a lota names


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## Oregon Gardener (Dec 12, 2015)

hempstead said:


> Does anyone throw worms in a used pot of soil? I read that if you throw a few in with the old rootball and let it sit a bit while keeping it moist then you can reuse it in a month or so. Sannie has said that even without the worms that you can replant in a pot for a second grow. He also said you should keep the old rootball in because not only will it break down and help feed the new plant but the mature mycor fungi will survive and attach to the new roots.


yes.


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## 240sxing (Dec 12, 2015)

Oregon Gardener said:


> Excellent! However I do have certain concerns. I once got 1500 ladybugs, and I'm telling you, that's a lota names


Funny rofl , my daughter likes to name them she makes it through about ten before she is bored.


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## calliandra (Jan 3, 2016)

Sooo... I was studying the texture of the worm compost in my bin today and ---
*Oh! it's a worm bin safari! *

I got excited to think I may actually be learning to recognize some of the bin inhabitants - 
here's a pic with my guesses:
 

Is this correct?
Oh and those little white roundish thingies just labelled with "???"... the photo's fuzzy on them sorry, but they're all over the bin lid too.

Also, how far "done" are these castings? 
They are smelling like a forest floor with mushrooms 
Could I use a handful to make some compost tea already?

Thanks!!


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## DonBrennon (Jan 3, 2016)

I been watching my worm bin too Calli, got plenty of worm cocoons in there so thought I'd try and film some hatching.........no joy there yet, but still real interesting whats running about in your worm bin. Not sure how good the picture will be for ya's all, but check out the tiny worm wriggling about on the top left worm egg (look real close), must be a nematode or a baby pot worm, it's definitely invisible to the naked eye.






holy shite, it's hard work getting a vid on here, pmsl, never uploaded to the tube before


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## calliandra (Jan 3, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> I been watching my worm bin too Calli, got plenty of worm cocoons in there so thought I'd try and film some hatching.........no joy there yet, but still real interesting whats running about in your worm bin. Not sure how good the picture will be for ya's all, but check out the tiny worm wriggling about on the top left worm egg (look real close), must be a nematode or a baby pot worm, it's definitely invisible to the naked eye.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OMG but was well worth the effort -- thanks so much, a really special view there with all the mites running around!
Yeah I see what you mean, I tried to find out what the size of baby potworms is but google failed, so - wildly guessing! - I lean towards nematode 
Was also real funny how the one predator mite took a stab at it then ran away LOL


----------



## DonBrennon (Jan 3, 2016)

I'm falling on the side of nematode too, just took a very close up shot of the surface of the worm egg, (the microscope says 400x, I'm dubious about this), but the frame/picture size here must be approx 0.5mm-1mm across, meaning the worms/nematode must be minute.


----------



## calliandra (Jan 3, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> I'm falling on the side of nematode too, just took a very close up shot of the surface of the worm egg, (the microscope says 400x, I'm dubious about this), but the frame/picture size here must be approx 0.5mm-1mm across, meaning the worms/nematode must be minute.


Sooo cool! There are a few of them wiggling about there!
Sure brings home the true meaning of "living soil" haha 
And an extremely cool cam you have there too btw!


----------



## DonBrennon (Jan 3, 2016)

calliandra said:


> Sooo cool! There are a few of them wiggling about there!
> Sure brings home the true meaning of "living soil" haha
> And an extremely cool cam you have there too btw!


USB microscope, not too expensive and very good for checking trichome colour and finding bad bugs. I noticed some thrip on my last grow and pulled a leaf off to look at some under the scope. Turns out I also found an early infestation of spider mite, small amount of immature but there must've been adults cos there were eggs aplenty, so I added some hypoaspis mite and some other mite (amelius andersoni or something like that), not had a thrip or s-mite in ages now, but you can see how many predators are in my VC bin and also in my soil (I Inoculated both). I don't think I'd have caught the mite infestation so early without the scope and a bit of luck, I guess.


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## mucha_mota (Feb 7, 2016)

Dr.D81 said:


> No it is not i have two bens. One is a 27 gal tuff tote and one is a open bottom box under a rabbit pen. I have used chest deep freezers, old school big satellite dishes, and lined plywood troughs


those tuff totes are awesome. with the yellow lid. my lowes used to carry these real thick ones. i was running a 4 rezzie system with them. now, converting to my own coco amendment mix, i use one for a worm farm too  you can perfectly expand a 5k block of coco in one too. room to spare so you can fluff it like a porn star.


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## Dr.D81 (Feb 7, 2016)

mucha_mota said:


> those tuff totes are awesome. i was running a 4 rezzie system with them. now i use one for a worm farm too


Yea they are great. I have add one myself and I run two off them currently.


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## mucha_mota (Feb 7, 2016)

crab shell meal , neem cake, alfalfa meal, worm poop (had to buy 30 lbs till the farm kicks in), humic powder, mycos, steam bone meal, azomote (spell).

gonna add kelp meal too. i did all 5lb buys. to play. but i love it over the bottle feed. i like p/k booster. low ppms. little cal/mag. but this new way for me is awesome. built in everything. just water. 

made my first alfalfa & worm poop tea. 
& not a bucket of nutes @ 700ppm.

so coooool ! & im off to grab some sulfate of potash.
so i can even kick the p/k booster habit.


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## mucha_mota (Feb 7, 2016)

i know this may be a dumb ? but can you get mites from a bag of worm poop? once at the home store i snatched a bag of pro-mix off the top to get one lower and noted red mites on a gash in the bag. i dont see why not. am i right? to be careful with purchases. online its hard to tell. i cant wait till my poop starts a comin'


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## Javadog (Feb 7, 2016)

Not sure what they would be doing on a bag of poop...no food for them there, 
or so I wonder....

Thanks for sharing,

JD


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## DonBrennon (Feb 7, 2016)

mucha_mota said:


> i cant wait till my poop starts a comin'


Try laxatives, it may help speed things along pmsfl................sorry, couldn't help myself


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## a senile fungus (Feb 7, 2016)

mucha_mota said:


> i know this may be a dumb ? but can you get mites from a bag of worm poop? once at the home store i snatched a bag of pro-mix off the top to get one lower and noted red mites on a gash in the bag. i dont see why not. am i right? to be careful with purchases. online its hard to tell. i cant wait till my poop starts a comin'



Absolutely. 

I used to get worm castings from a local guy, and they came with all sorts of populations of mites, worms, springtails, etc. The particular species in my particular mix wasn't harmful to the plant. There were 2 species of larger slower mites and 1 species of faster smaller mites, which were predatory. Then I had these white creatures, I think they were springtails. I dunno, like I said, they weren't harmful to the plant, in my case.

You can get bugs from store bought soils, and you can get them from worm castings and outdoor compost too.

I can't personal speak on anything like indoor bins or compost piles, but in my experience, anything that's been outside will have bugs. 

It's healthy for my garden for me to make that presumption, or at least I'd like to think so


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 7, 2016)

Well I'll be... that only took me 4 months...
I was just saying the other day we need a vermicomposting sticky.
Subbd- lol


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 7, 2016)

mucha_mota said:


> those tuff totes are awesome. with the yellow lid. my lowes used to carry these real thick ones. i was running a 4 rezzie system with them. now, converting to my own coco amendment mix, i use one for a worm farm too  you can perfectly expand a 5k block of coco in one too. room to spare so you can fluff it like a porn star.


I did the same shit. I got 5 of them that I used for a RDWC. 27 gallons each.


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## Dr.D81 (Feb 7, 2016)

a senile fungus said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> I used to get worm castings from a local guy, and they came with all sorts of populations of mites, worms, springtails, etc. The particular species in my particular mix wasn't harmful to the plant. There were 2 species of larger slower mites and 1 species of faster smaller mites, which were predatory. Then I had these white creatures, I think they were springtails. I dunno, like I said, they weren't harmful to the plant, in my case.
> 
> ...


I have predatory mites and springtails in my bins too


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## Kind Sir (Feb 7, 2016)

So I already got a few opinions on this but still not sure. I didnt have ANY bugs in my indoor worm bin for about 2months but recently found these (a tad smaller than a cannabis seed) black looking almost beatles, and just found these red mites Friday, on/near a banana in the bin.

I dont want them to hurt my worms, or plants when used. I put some DE ontop, I dont feed often at all so my bin is healthy for sure. Only problem is I don't have holes on the bottom of mine, I was thinking about adding holes and putting it in another bin to collect dripping. 

Do you guys add any Amendments? Kelp, oyster shell or anything?


----------



## Wetdog (Feb 7, 2016)

Kind Sir said:


> So I already got a few opinions on this but still not sure. I didnt have ANY bugs in my indoor worm bin for about 2months but recently found these (a tad smaller than a cannabis seed) black looking almost beatles, and just found these red mites Friday, on/near a banana in the bin.
> 
> I dont want them to hurt my worms, or plants when used. I put some DE ontop, I dont feed often at all so my bin is healthy for sure. Only problem is I don't have holes on the bottom of mine, I was thinking about adding holes and putting it in another bin to collect dripping.
> 
> Do you guys add any Amendments? Kelp, oyster shell or anything?


You STILL haven't added drainage holes!? I remember telling you they were a must, or, you can learn from painful experience., your call.

Please quit trying to kill beneficial bugs in the bin, it hurts the worms and damages the entire ecosystem of the bin. A handful of neem cake every couple of weeks sprinkled on top will take care of any nasty bugs and the worms love the stuff.

AFA amendments, big yes to the kelp, apply like the neem. Also a yes to the OSF, but very seldom, like 6 weeks+ seldom. I add it to my bedding mix, but never add more. They eat some for grit, but really don't consume it and it keeps the pH right.

Wet


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## DonTesla (Feb 7, 2016)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> Well I'll be... that only took me 4 months...
> I was just saying the other day we need a vermicomposting sticky.
> Subbd- lol


What the fuck is a sticky, brotha? Lol
And ..



a senile fungus said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> I used to get worm castings from a local guy, and they came with all sorts of populations of mites, worms, springtails, etc. The particular species in my particular mix wasn't harmful to the plant. There were 2 species of larger slower mites and 1 species of faster smaller mites, which were predatory. Then I had these white creatures, I think they were springtails. I dunno, like I said, they weren't harmful to the plant, in my case.
> 
> ...


Yeah man
Only bugs I ever got were from outside plants, leaves, or compost.
In the house is where its at, hey



Kind Sir said:


> So I already got a few opinions on this but still not sure. I didnt have ANY bugs in my indoor worm bin for about 2months but recently found these (a tad smaller than a cannabis seed) black looking almost beatles, and just found these red mites Friday, on/near a banana in the bin.
> 
> I dont want them to hurt my worms, or plants when used. I put some DE ontop, I dont feed often at all so my bin is healthy for sure. Only problem is I don't have holes on the bottom of mine, I was thinking about adding holes and putting it in another bin to collect dripping.
> 
> Do you guys add any Amendments? Kelp, oyster shell or anything?


Worms are the kings and humble city workers who make tunnels for all other beasties so don't worry too much, amigo
Kelp is great for pests, especially outdoors. A great precursor for successful cloning as well say two weeks before your mothers get the knife

Alfalfa is great to work in thru your compost be it the worm or outdoor com
Or a tea. The dons no likey depending on it thru just plain addition to the soil tbh
To really unlock its TRIA bene's go that route or yea, SST if u like extra dishes. Lol
As for the red mites, they're not too bad, and are actually normal to a degree.
Feel free to discard outbreaks but that's it.
Oyster shell is great for aeration and calcium etc and a decent upgrade to eggshells but if is not granulated to a sand I would say its less useful, as worms won't eat it for a little intestine cleaner
But yea, good idea to do the holes tho
Collect your castings without breaking your back
Hardware mesh screens whatever it takes to ease the workload
Cause Mother Nature she's a natural type
We gotta get as efficient as possible, lol


----------



## DonBrennon (Feb 7, 2016)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> Well I'll be... that only took me 4 months...
> I was just saying the other day we need a vermicomposting sticky.
> Subbd- lol


agreed, most believe their wormbins are the most important part of their set up, should be stickied, I think one for good bugs/bad bugs would be good too, there seems loads of confusion in that area


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## DonTesla (Feb 7, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> agreed, most believe their wormbins are the most important part of their set up, should be stickied, I think one for good bugs/bad bugs would be good too, there seems loads of confusion in that area


Seems like stickies are helpful
Thanks DonB
But I still...
I wish beneficial bio predators were common place and readily available at every store that sells these hydro nutes that seem so readily available city to city
Not one in my region has myco
My whole grow can exist mail-free minus the myco and lights,
Who thankfully I have a a great guy like @DonPetro to have tredged the foggy hi ways of .

I guess the industry is still coming in to its own
It's up to us to request these things and educate store owners
Some are eager to get lists from guys like us
Other talk shit about worm castings like they only ever grown Che-lated.
Gotta get to know your city and the best shop and then help people go there I guess.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 8, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> agreed, most believe their wormbins are the most important part of their set up, should be stickied, I think one for good bugs/bad bugs would be good too, there seems loads of confusion in that area


Absolutely, macro identification would be very insightful. Lots of people seem to get hung up on it, and freak when the bugs show up. Not knowing what they are truly and how to treat/handle them. Anyone serious about organic cultivation should be well versed in vermiculture and it's subsidiaries.


----------



## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 8, 2016)

DonTesla said:


> Seems like stickies are helpful
> Thanks DonB
> But I still...
> I wish beneficial bio predators were common place and readily available at every store that sells these hydro nutes that seem so readily available city to city
> ...


Che-lated lattes are the best. 
A locksmith can Che-late your doors.
Lol old lol
Worms cant Che-late only my $1000 line of bottled piss has that.....


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 8, 2016)

Tomatoe seedlings are poping out of the farms top tier. 
And..... fucking mushrooms.....
Diversity-


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 8, 2016)

First pic...
Notice the dark spot directly under the mushroom cap? Spores!!!!!!
I'm not that we'll versed on mushroom hunting or really identification either. I'm thinking this is some variation of endo or ecto. I had these in my compost barrel about 4 months after I added a bale of straw. Even if it's not endo or ecto, it's still fungi and adds balance to the ecosystem.


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## MustangStudFarm (Feb 8, 2016)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> Tomatoe seedlings are poping out of the farms top tier.
> And..... fucking mushrooms.....
> Diversity-
> View attachment 3603791 View attachment 3603790 View attachment 3603789


I really like your DIY worm bin!!! I think that I have the material laying around to build one, nice design, looks simple and effective.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 8, 2016)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I really like your DIY worm bin!!! I think that I have the material laying around to build one, nice design, looks simple and effective.


Thanks man.
It's really basic.
2x4 for the frame
1x2 for the alignment (make sure to slightly round the tips so the trays easily stack)
Burlap
3/8" plastic fencing.

Probably the easiest thing I've made to date. But the most important non the less.


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## Kind Sir (Feb 8, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> agreed, most believe their wormbins are the most important part of their set up, should be stickied, I think one for good bugs/bad bugs would be good too, there seems loads of confusion in that area


Agreed and thanks. I neex that bug sticky, I couldnt imagine sticking my hand in my worm bin anmymore. I used to enjoy smelling it, now aill end up sniffing a mite up and cloning them in my lungs.


----------



## Kind Sir (Feb 8, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> USB microscope, not too expensive and very good for checking trichome colour and finding bad bugs. I noticed some thrip on my last grow and pulled a leaf off to look at some under the scope. Turns out I also found an early infestation of spider mite, small amount of immature but there must've been adults cos there were eggs aplenty, so I added some hypoaspis mite and some other mite (amelius andersoni or something like that), not had a thrip or s-mite in ages now, but you can see how many predators are in my VC bin and also in my soil (I Inoculated both). I don't think I'd have caught the mite infestation so early without the scope and a bit of luck, I guess.



Hey what scope do you use?


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## DonBrennon (Feb 8, 2016)

This is the exact one I've got, I think it must've been on offer when I bought it, I only paid £35. I'm sure they can be picked up for around £30/$44

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/usb-digital-microscope-with-400x-magnification-n43hh?gclid=CL3ax7q66MoCFQgW0wodYJMCiQ

the stand for it is practically useless and because of the wire, it's very difficult to focus at 400x magnification. They are a great bit of kit for the price though, despite the faults


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 8, 2016)

I was anxious to run these screens so I harvested 3 trays today.
Fluffy, spongy, earthy....gold!
Not bad for 3 trays, I'll weigh it up and see my haul. This is all the burlap that's left. They must like it. From the looks of it, I harvested about 1/2 of the total farm volume.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 8, 2016)

Now for the woody beer grain farm I've been doing in a storage tote. Added back the volume lost from harvesting.
Topped it off with some hemp mulch.
Going to add 1/2 of an avacado to each tray to get an even migration for the reds. The Europeans like to stay on the bottom tray and they prefer a higher C to N than the reds.


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## Beemo (Feb 8, 2016)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> This is all the burlap that's left. They must like it.


be careful with burlap
from Elaine R. Ingham
Fresh burlap should be used with caution, though, as it is soaked in
preservative materials which can be extracted into the tea and kill the organisms.

have you tried coffee grounds? they are free at starbucks all day long


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 8, 2016)

Beemo said:


> be careful with burlap
> from Elaine R. Ingham
> Fresh burlap should be used with caution, though, as it is soaked in
> preservative materials which can be extracted into the tea and kill the organisms.
> ...


Ok cool, I had no idea about burlap. I thought it's was clean. But I do soak it in RODI before it needs to be replaced. 

I do use coffee grounds and the worms love it. 
Lol, Starbucks is actually one place I get used grounds, dunking donuts is the other.


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## Beemo (Feb 8, 2016)

cant wait to start mine again... too cold right now...
had a 55g smart pot. lumperdawg style 
filled with alpaca shit and coffee grounds (free).. and amendments (not free)...
recipe gotten from an old organic farmer.... worms love it...
bitch to harvest....
lol... got a similiar sifting screen like yours. 1/4 and 1/8
mainly used the 1/8 only tho....


----------



## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 8, 2016)

Beemo said:


> cant wait to start mine again... too cold right now...
> had a 55g smart pot. lumperdawg style
> filled with alpaca shit and coffee grounds (free).. and amendments (not free)...
> recipe gotten from an old organic farmer.... worms love it...
> ...


Mannnnnn, Dat alpaca shit is amazing stuff!! I love it and I know worms do too! It's done wonders for my outdoor raised tomato beds. Till it in, top dress or feed worms. Fresh is safe to use, absolutely zero burn!

Yeah, the 1/8 is the better one because I still have babies that slip through the 1/4. 
A barrel harvester is my next next project. I'm going to have to look around for odd sized screen. 1/4 is too much and 1/8 just ain't enough. Gotta take the fucking labor out of harvesting, ya know. Shit gets old real quick, lol.


----------



## Beemo (Feb 8, 2016)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> Mannnnnn, Dat alpaca shit is amazing stuff!! I love it and I know worms do too! It's done wonders for my outdoor raised tomato beds. Till it in, top dress or feed worms. Fresh is safe to use, absolutely zero burn!
> 
> Yeah, the 1/8 is the better one because I still have babies that slip through the 1/4.
> A barrel harvester is my next next project. I'm going to have to look around for odd sized screen. 1/4 is too much and 1/8 just ain't enough. Gotta take the fucking labor out of harvesting, ya know. Shit gets old real quick, lol.


lol, had the same problem with 1/4. many cocoons...
barrel harvester might be the easier way...
but my next design... want something similar to this...







that way you can harvest from the bottom.. and keep top feeding thru the top...
a lot of vineyards use this setups...
wonder how they make great grapes and wine... EWC


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 8, 2016)

Beemo said:


> lol, had the same problem with 1/4. many cocoons...
> barrel harvester might be the easier way...
> but my next design... want something similar to this...
> 
> ...


Must have!!!!


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## Beemo (Feb 8, 2016)

some more examples of flow thru worm bin..


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## Wetdog (Feb 8, 2016)

GGJ ... Use 2 - 1/4" screens, slightly offset, 1 on top of the other. Nothing larger than 1/4" and the majority slightly smaller.

Much, MUCH easier than trying to source 3/16" screen. Small tie wraps work well to hold them in place

Wet




Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> Mannnnnn, Dat alpaca shit is amazing stuff!! I love it and I know worms do too! It's done wonders for my outdoor raised tomato beds. Till it in, top dress or feed worms. Fresh is safe to use, absolutely zero burn!
> 
> Yeah, the 1/8 is the better one because I still have babies that slip through the 1/4.
> A barrel harvester is my next next project. I'm going to have to look around for odd sized screen. 1/4 is too much and 1/8 just ain't enough. Gotta take the fucking labor out of harvesting, ya know. Shit gets old real quick, lol.


----------



## MustangStudFarm (Feb 8, 2016)

I was looking at worm chow recipes, and I came across this. Is this really all that it takes to make the stuff? I am guessing that everybody has seen Purina worm chow?

*TexasRedWorms.com Worm Chow is:*

*1 part corn meal*

*1 part ground up oatmeal*

*add crushed egg shells for minerals and flavor






*


----------



## Theophagy (Feb 8, 2016)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I was looking at worm chow recipes, and I came across this. Is this really all that it takes to make the stuff? I am guessing that everybody has seen Purina worm chow?
> 
> *TexasRedWorms.com Worm Chow is:*
> 
> ...


I have been using this mixture for awhile now.
2 parts corn meal
2 parts oatmeal
1 part egg shells
throw it all in the blender. I started off just sprinkling a little at a time on top.
Worms seem to love it.


----------



## Richard Drysift (Feb 8, 2016)

DonTesla said:


> Seems like stickies are helpful
> Thanks DonB
> But I still...
> I wish beneficial bio predators were common place and readily available at every store that sells these hydro nutes that seem so readily available city to city
> ...


My old shop that is now out of business tried carrying organic amendments and even had a worm tea club where you would pay monthly $20 and get up to 2gal of tea per week but it didn't work because they didn't keep it fresh- was anaerobic many times I tried to pick it up so I decided to make my own once my wormies were established. The problem is that they just can't make the same money off of us organic growers as they can off growers addicted to nutes. Plus only a few guys working there were knowledgable enough to even help out those doing living soil grows...they just want to sell you stuff & they don't care if your plants are healthy or not as long as you keep buying shit from them.


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## ForRealz (Feb 8, 2016)

Oooh, this area has loads of Slurm for me to slurp up, Im glad I wriggled my way over to this corner!


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## DonTesla (Feb 8, 2016)

Beemo said:


> lol, had the same problem with 1/4. many cocoons...
> barrel harvester might be the easier way...
> but my next design... want something similar to this...
> 
> ...


Many cocoons could be a _good_ thing 

Been a fan of the double over technique lay tho since the get go


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## DonTesla (Feb 8, 2016)

Richard Drysift said:


> My old shop that is now out of business tried carrying organic amendments and even had a worm tea club where you would pay monthly $20 and get up to 2gal of tea per week but it didn't work because they didn't keep it fresh- was anaerobic many times I tried to pick it up so I decided to make my own once my wormies were established. The problem is that they just can't make the same money off of us organic growers as they can off growers addicted to nutes. Plus only a few guys working there were knowledgable enough to even help out those doing living soil grows...they just want to sell you stuff & they don't care if your plants are healthy or not as long as you keep buying shit from them.


Sad but true, Rich
They out to lunch when it comes to us
Nearly none sell myco 
Same with Fresh worms
..Worm farms
No Soil consultants in sight
Light builders are a forum rarity vs a brick and motar commonplace

It's fucked
But each request holds a bit of weight and soon enough better stores will emerge 
The future will have better stores cause guys like us will start them or we'll educate good listeners

For ex.
They should sell small amounts of castings with a bit of molasses perfectly ratio'd to you know-who's research, enough for a 2 gallon tea do yourself..
And maybe even water and pail and bubbler for beginners but still, brew yourself,for 36-42
Anaerobic is such a rookie mistake
Lots of stupid shit is gonna happen as the world unlearns its own bad habits
Some models are progressing massively while others lag behind


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## Kind Sir (Feb 9, 2016)

1. So like I said my worm bin doesnt have holes on the bottom. Im going to drill some today& and put it in another tote with a brick or something on the bottom. Anything else I should know/add??

2. Also, I want to start a second bin with worms from my current bin. The bin smells very earthy, but has some "beneficial" bugs that Im slowly getting comfortable with. I want to do my best to keep bugs out of my 2nd bin if possible. Can I rinse the worms off or something, or is that just nonsense? 

I can handle the truth! Give me a lashing if need be, no sugarcoating if Im incorrect.


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## DonBrennon (Feb 9, 2016)

Kind Sir said:


> Agreed and thanks. I neex that bug sticky, I couldnt imagine sticking my hand in my worm bin anmymore. I used to enjoy smelling it, now aill end up sniffing a mite up and cloning them in my lungs.


hahaha, you wouldn't go near my plants then either, this is whats going on in and under my mulch


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## DonBrennon (Feb 9, 2016)

Kind Sir said:


> 1. So like I said my worm bin doesnt have holes on the bottom. Im going to drill some today& and put it in another tote with a brick or something on the bottom. Anything else I should know/add??
> 
> 2. Also, I want to start a second bin with worms from my current bin. The bin smells very earthy, but has some "beneficial" bugs that Im slowly getting comfortable with. I want to do my best to keep bugs out of my 2nd bin if possible. Can I rinse the worms off or something, or is that just nonsense?
> 
> I can handle the truth! Give me a lashing if need be, no sugarcoating if Im incorrect.


here's a good link I found that may ease your stance on bugs in your bin
http://www.wormfarmingrevealed.com/wormfarmingpests.html
keep your eye out for those red mite though, you defo don't want them fookers in there


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## Kind Sir (Feb 9, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> here's a good link I found that may ease your stance on bugs in your bin
> http://www.wormfarmingrevealed.com/wormfarmingpests.html
> keep your eye out for those red mite though, you defo don't want them fookers in there


Ive seen so many different answers I dont know what to believe/do! You guys are all knowledgeable in this field, with conflicting answers so Id like to inv a few of my organic fanatics friends for their opinions. Thundercats Hoooooo!

@greasemonkeymann @Grandpa GreenJeans @DonTesla @Rrog 


Sorry to bug you guys, I know I already spoke to monkey/grandpa regarding worm bin pests (particularly red mites) most said theyre either beneficial, or not to bother unless theyre in mass groups but still saw some decent info saying they ARE bad. Not sure what to think now, Im drilling the holes tonight so that'll help.


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## greasemonkeymann (Feb 9, 2016)

Kind Sir said:


> Ive seen so many different answers I dont know what to believe/do! You guys are all knowledgeable in this field, with conflicting answers so Id like to inv a few of my organic fanatics friends for their opinions. Thundercats Hoooooo!
> 
> @greasemonkeymann @Grandpa GreenJeans @DonTesla @Rrog
> 
> ...


my bin is crawling with probably like 100 different types of bugs, and those are just the observable ones.
There may be some sort of harmful bug that comes in compost, but I've never heard of it, nor have I heard of anybody that does.
If they are eating decomposing organic material, they won't be interested in live plant material.
In my opinion.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 9, 2016)

greasemonkeymann said:


> my bin is crawling with probably like 100 different types of bugs, and those are just the observable ones.
> There may be some sort of harmful bug that comes in compost, but I've never heard of it, nor have I heard of anybody that does.
> If they are eating decomposing organic material, they won't be interested in live plant material.
> In my opinion.


Second that!!!


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## greasemonkeymann (Feb 9, 2016)

Kind Sir said:


> Ive seen so many different answers I dont know what to believe/do! You guys are all knowledgeable in this field, with conflicting answers so Id like to inv a few of my organic fanatics friends for their opinions. Thundercats Hoooooo!
> 
> @greasemonkeymann @Grandpa GreenJeans @DonTesla @Rrog
> 
> ...


are you burying your food?
that can help, I see more bugs on the surface than underneath, that's probably help.
I also have a layer of leaves that I cover the whole bin with too


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## Rrog (Feb 9, 2016)

Never met a bug in a worm bin that I didn't like. They're all beneficial. I think something has to be outta line to get problems. Too wet, going anaerobic, etc will maybe invite true pests. Otherwise the system is stacked so only the good guys can play


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## Joe Blows Trees (Feb 9, 2016)

I'm glad I got some worms. They're gonna make my job much easier and help all my plants reach there true potential! Uncle Jim recommended corn meal when you first get the worms so I'm going to try adding egg shells with the corn meal next feeding since I hear the worms will enjoy it.


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## greasemonkeymann (Feb 9, 2016)

Joe Blows Trees said:


> I'm glad I got some worms. They're gonna make my job much easier and help all my plants reach there true potential! Uncle Jim recommended corn meal when you first get the worms so I'm going to try adding egg shells with the corn meal next feeding since I hear the worms will enjoy it.


whole wheat flour works too.
But frozen, thawed, and mashed fruit is their favorite...
Dig a hole, and plop it in, then cover it up.


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## Joe Blows Trees (Feb 9, 2016)

I actually put a frozen banana and frozen strawberries in the bin this morning. I figured I'd check it again this weekend and see how much is left. Thanks for the tip @greasemonkeymann didn't know about the flour.


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## greasemonkeymann (Feb 9, 2016)

Joe Blows Trees said:


> I actually put a frozen banana and frozen strawberries in the bin this morning. I figured I'd check it again this weekend and see how much is left. Thanks for the tip @greasemonkeymann didn't know about the flour.


yup, frozen, thawed, and mashed... then spread out in a thinner layer to allow more surface area, then cover.
It cuts the "digestion" process to about half the time


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## DonTesla (Feb 10, 2016)

greasemonkeymann said:


> yup, frozen, thawed, and mashed... then spread out in a thinner layer to allow more surface area, then cover.
> It cuts the "digestion" process to about half the time


Absolutely. Imo, Will disappear _at least_ twice as fast if happy temp wise etc

Don't have a cat but sure feels like it, haha


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## DonTesla (Feb 10, 2016)

Kind Sir said:


> Ive seen so many different answers I dont know what to believe/do! You guys are all knowledgeable in this field, with conflicting answers so Id like to inv a few of my organic fanatics friends for their opinions. Thundercats Hoooooo!
> 
> @greasemonkeymann @Grandpa GreenJeans @DonTesla @Rrog
> 
> ...


Usually red mites break out on colossal sized acidic meals (rotting fruit etc) that are under-rotten and under-mashed/composted so different cultures and bacteria and mould can develop, which attract them I guess 

Burying em and keeping chunks under the size of a dime should help, as well as balanced moisture levels and some good aeration 

Smell for pleasant smells when you sense foulness get rid of the source and try something a little better!!


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## Kind Sir (Feb 10, 2016)

What is in there?


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## DonTesla (Feb 11, 2016)

Kind Sir said:


> What is in there?


Just whatever i ate that week, hombre..

Apples
Pears
Bananas
Watermelon
Bit of greens
Some veggies
Dead leaves (I eat dead leaves? na jk)

Well rotted (frozen>thawed) and then mushed on top of take out bags from A&W.

I slap the paper in there upside down and it disappears in 72 hours, holes all thru the paper. .after acting as a subcutaneous-friendly mulch layer where worms can go ham under neath


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## Joe Blows Trees (Feb 11, 2016)

Is it easier for the worms to consume the fruits mashed up after thawing out? If so, I'm gonna incorporate that technique next feeding. I just put the bananas, broken into smaller pieces after thawing, and strawberries right under the soil without smashing it up.


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## Wetdog (Feb 12, 2016)

Joe Blows Trees said:


> Is it easier for the worms to consume the fruits mashed up after thawing out? If so, I'm gonna incorporate that technique next feeding. I just put the bananas, broken into smaller pieces after thawing, and strawberries right under the soil without smashing it up.


What you need to understand and it will help in the feeding is, worms don't eat anything (no teeth), but rather slurp up the bacterial slime from decomposing 'food'. The faster it rots, the faster they can 'eat' it. So, the freezing, mashing, cutting up, is just to speed up the decomposition of the food source and get it to rot.

Hope this makes sense.

Wet


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## DonTesla (Feb 12, 2016)

Joe Blows Trees said:


> Is it easier for the worms to consume the fruits mashed up after thawing out? If so, I'm gonna incorporate that technique next feeding. I just put the bananas, broken into smaller pieces after thawing, and strawberries right under the soil without smashing it up.


Absolutely Joe, give it a shot.

Though they love strawberries they will mould quickly too, so the freezing thawing and mashing helps the worms win the "bacterial" race .

Wet dogs' right as well- they have no teeth at all..In fact, they like to use sand and rocks/shells/other particles in the soil to clean out their bodies.

******************************

>>>An aloe Vera skin wrapped around this super crop wound that snapped halfway thru, working great with some medical tape on the aloe so the plant remains untouched by glues...


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## DonBrennon (Feb 12, 2016)

DonTesla said:


> Absolutely Joe, give it a shot.
> 
> Though they love strawberries they will mould quickly too, so the freezing thawing and mashing helps the worms win the "bacterial" race .
> 
> ...


I like that idea, do you think it could start rooting though? a bit like air layering


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## DonTesla (Feb 12, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> I like that idea, do you think it could start rooting though? a bit like air layering


That would be a sight to see, never thought about that !

Edit:
Probably will remove it in bout 48 hours or so, though..
Plants heal pretty fast


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## Dr.D81 (Feb 13, 2016)

Harvested one of my bins last night and started some tea


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## Dr.D81 (Feb 13, 2016)

DonTesla said:


> Absolutely Joe, give it a shot.
> 
> Though they love strawberries they will mould quickly too, so the freezing thawing and mashing helps the worms win the "bacterial" race .
> 
> ...


Just tape alone will heal it and not risk the rooting.


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## hyroot (Feb 13, 2016)

I picked up some more worms today. Locally and for a great deal. 


 


In their new home


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## kkt3 (Feb 13, 2016)

We juice, and the worms in my 2 bins love the leftover pulp from whatever we juice!!


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## MustangStudFarm (Feb 14, 2016)

kkt3 said:


> We juice, and the worms in my 2 bins love the leftover pulp from whatever we juice!!


I am glad that you brought that up! I recently got a Omega 8006... I might have to start using lemon at the very end, and catch it with something else!!! What about ginger, is that going to cause a problem also?


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## MustangStudFarm (Feb 14, 2016)

I just found it, ginger is bad! Its not really that big of a problem... Is this the type of stuff that you can make bokashi out of? If I could bokashi citrus, onion, garlic, potato skins, and ginger then it might be worth it... Actually, I just came across an article that covers this very topic!!! I was starting to think that bokashi was worthless in my rotation!

http://treadingmyownpath.com/2015/02/19/bokashi-bins-the-whats-hows-and-whys/


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## kkt3 (Feb 14, 2016)

I don't do bokashi and also don't put any citrus or ginger into my worm bins. We juiced some apples and carrots yesterday and mixed the pulp in with some horse manure, chopped up banana peels, apple peels, carrot peels, oyster shell flour, alfalfa meal, dirt and ground up ganga leaf. the mixture sits in a closed plastic container for about a week then it gets fed to the worms.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 15, 2016)

Joe Blows Trees said:


> Is it easier for the worms to consume the fruits mashed up after thawing out? If so, I'm gonna incorporate that technique next feeding. I just put the bananas, broken into smaller pieces after thawing, and strawberries right under the soil without smashing it up.


Anything we'll feed to the worms has a natural moisture content. When water freezes, it expands. This is what damages the tissues and solid form, and Concequently makes the item mushy. This is what speeds up the breakdown and assists the worms in an easy meal.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 15, 2016)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I just found it, ginger is bad! Its not really that big of a problem... Is this the type of stuff that you can make bokashi out of? If I could bokashi citrus, onion, garlic, potato skins, and ginger then it might be worth it... Actually, I just came across an article that covers this very topic!!! I was starting to think that bokashi was worthless in my rotation!
> 
> http://treadingmyownpath.com/2015/02/19/bokashi-bins-the-whats-hows-and-whys/


Puree the ginger and ferment it in a mason jar. Or add it into the bokashi fermenter. It's a good pest repellent. Fungi and bacteria will eat basically anything, but gnats, aphids, mites, ect... wont. Bokashi is so much more valuable than being noted for it closed system composting. All those microbes you can't get in any other fashion.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 15, 2016)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I am glad that you brought that up! I recently got a Omega 8006... I might have to start using lemon at the very end, and catch it with something else!!! What about ginger, is that going to cause a problem also?
> View attachment 3608083


Props on the maceration juicer!
I have a champion and I love it! It even chews through asparagus with ease!


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## calliandra (Feb 15, 2016)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> Puree the ginger and ferment it in a mason jar. Or add it into the bokashi fermenter. It's a good pest repellent. Fungi and bacteria will eat basically anything, but gnats, aphids, mites, ect... wont. Bokashi is so much more valuable than being noted for it closed system composting. All those microbes you can't get in any other fashion.


But bokashi is actually an anaerobic process, so the microbes are bound to be anaerobic-loving ones =problem causers in the soil? Or does the compost worms' processing take care of that?
Also, I'm wondering if bokashi gets hot enough to kill off pathogens?


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 17, 2016)

calliandra said:


> But bokashi is actually an anaerobic process, so the microbes are bound to be anaerobic-loving ones =problem causers in the soil? Or does the compost worms' processing take care of that?
> Also, I'm wondering if bokashi gets hot enough to kill off pathogens?


Anerobic microorganisms are bad, but not all of them. By culturing the EM1 serum, we're only allowing a select few anerobes to proliferate. These are flaculative and they have dual purposes in different enviroments. But the microbes needed to make bokashi is mainly lacto bacillus and it wards off any truly bad anerobes. No worries! The same probiotic reason that I eat Greek yogurt and drink keifer, the worms will benifit from too. 

Now, we know that worms rely on bacterial presence in their enviroment and within their guts. But...... a worms gut isn't aerobic, it's anerobic. Yes there's aerobic in the castings but they wernt always like that, only after they left the worms body. 

Bokashi does not get hot, at all. It may warm up some but not to the point that alfalfa or seed meals will. But while bokashi is in its fermenter it is a cold composting method.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 17, 2016)

Notice the purple rainbow hue to my worms? Bokashi, EM1, avacado and yeast protein powder. Amongst many other food sources, but I focus mainly on these.


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## mucha_mota (Feb 17, 2016)

can i use coffee ground as a "grit" so to speak? not always. just until i can score some oyster shell flour. egg shells too. i want to stash, bake off, & pre-process. im not an egg eater. & i forget to grab the shells from work lately. coffee grounds, i mean its the liquid of life.


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## DonBrennon (Feb 17, 2016)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> Notice the purple rainbow hue to my worms?


I noticed the purple hue on your thumbnail pmsl..................ouch, must've hurt, I'm in the construction industry and get them often, nothing worse than the end of your thumb throbbing so much it feels like it's gonna explode


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 17, 2016)

mucha_mota said:


> can i use coffee ground as a "grit" so to speak? not always. just until i can score some oyster shell flour. egg shells too. i want to stash, bake off, & pre-process. im not an egg eater. & i forget to grab the shells from work lately. coffee grounds, i mean its the liquid of life.


Totally liquid life!
The grounds will add some "aggregate" like qualities, but if you have oyster flour, I'd opt for that first. Egg shells are good, but most people can't get them to the proper "ground" like consistency. Personally, I'd use a food processor or motor and pedistal, to get that fine grade, that the worms can gulp in with the rest of the mess.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 17, 2016)

Now with coffee, you want to be conservative until the worms adjust to the predominant food source. Grounds being very acidic and high in N, may shock the worms if too much is added at once. 
Also, make sure the worms have an additional food source. One that they're familiar with and readily feed upon. This way the acclimation to a new predominantly acidic food source is a smooth transition.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 17, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> I noticed the purple hue on your thumbnail pmsl..................ouch, must've hurt, I'm in the construction industry and get them often, nothing worse than the end of your thumb throbbing so much it feels like it's gonna explode


Roofing while stoned, and a 24 oz framing hammer. Lol, (shrug).... 
Just caught the side, luckily. I've had alot worse in the past. My hands in general look like shit from all the years. Full of scars and lumps.


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## Mohican (Feb 17, 2016)

I finished the last wall of the screen room (it was curved so it was tricky).
No ER visits just a few scratches and bruises:






The strategy I follow with introducing new foods to the worms is to put it in a corner and let them enjoy or avoid it as they wish.
So far they seem to devour everything.

Cheers,
Mo


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## DonBrennon (Feb 17, 2016)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> Totally liquid life!
> The grounds will add some "aggregate" like qualities, but if you have oyster flour, I'd opt for that first. Egg shells are good, but most people can't get them to the proper "ground" like consistency. Personally, I'd use a food processor or motor and pedistal, to get that fine grade, that the worms can gulp in with the rest of the mess.


This is what I have to do, no oyster shell flour over here, so I buy oyster shell grit mean't for chickens and smash it up like a lunatic in said pestle and mortar, that's some tough shit to grind up, egg shells are a doddle, especially if you dry them out for a while in the oven.


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## Mohican (Feb 18, 2016)

I used a sledge hammer for grinding up the lava rock.


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## GreenSanta (Feb 20, 2016)

mucha_mota said:


> i know this may be a dumb ? but can you get mites from a bag of worm poop? once at the home store i snatched a bag of pro-mix off the top to get one lower and noted red mites on a gash in the bag. i dont see why not. am i right? to be careful with purchases. online its hard to tell. i cant wait till my poop starts a comin'


you can get mites from everywhere, once you start using beneficial bugs to take care of pests, you dont really worry about what you bring into your grow room. I have been growing perpetual for many years, without ever starting from scratch. Also I dont ever spray for bugs, I do spend an awful lot of money on beneficial insects, once or twice a month. Its a trade off, well worth it in my opinion.


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## Dr.D81 (Feb 21, 2016)

Mohican said:


> I finished the last wall of the screen room (it was curved so it was tricky).
> No ER visits just a few scratches and bruises:
> 
> 
> ...


It has come along some since I saw it

Harvested one of my bins last week


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## Organicgrow42 (Feb 21, 2016)

I just read this whole thread. Couldn't put it down. Love where everyone is coming from. 

I tried a worm factory 360 last year and it said to put newspaper in the bottom layer to keep the worms from escaping but will also let the leachatte through. 

Well the paper was obviously wet from that and the worms went through the bottom and escaped. Anyone have any thoughts on that?


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## Theophagy (Feb 21, 2016)

If the worms were escaping, it means the conditions in the bin weren't right. Could have been to wet, dry or acidic.

I also started off with a worm factory 360, and just like you had the exact same problem. There came a point were I almost tossed it all out. But after some reading and messing around, my worm population has bounced back, and no longer have worms escaping.
*My bedding:* shredded fall leaves, and cardboard, I like using the paper towel and TP rolls. I also throw in some peat. No exacted ratio, but I use more leaves since there free. Soak the bedding in some water for awhile till everything is wet. Squeeze out excess water.
*Feeding:* I use fruit and vegetable scrapes, that I keep stored in the freezer. When ready, thaw out, put in blender, spread out on a paper towel. Flip it over so food side down in bin. Cover with some more bedding.
I also give them chow mix from time to time, just sprinkle across the top.
Chow mix: corn meal, oatmeal, eggshells. in a 2:2:1 ratio

Just stick with it you will figure it out, and keep reading. This guy has a lot of good info
http://www.redwormcomposting.com/


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## Organicgrow42 (Feb 22, 2016)

Great info, thanks theo! When you add food to the bin do you say add 1 handful in a corner and then say a week or so later, depending on how the worms have done, add another handful? Or do you add a really think layer a roos half or the whole thing ? I can see where both can work imo


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## Theophagy (Feb 22, 2016)

I used to throw about a handful on a paper towel, wrap it up and bury it in the corner. Now I spread a layer on a paper towel, like putting jelly on a piece of bread.
Look at DonTeslas Post on page 37, post #735...The worms are eating up the food much faster now, since I started doing it this way.


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## Organicgrow42 (Feb 23, 2016)

That's what I was thinking too, to spread it out. More surface area. 

So to clarify, that would be about a handful spread out on some paper towel right? About once a week for my worm factory since it's small? I obviously will play w it but don't want to add too much too often and fuck it all up again.


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## mucha_mota (Feb 23, 2016)

last few pages have been super informative. killer thread.


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## Richard Drysift (Feb 23, 2016)

The instruction book that came with my worm factory says they like paper but mine don't eat it unless there's nothing else..they seem to prefer dried canna leaf & alfalfa meal. They devour fruit & veggie scraps but it takes time like say 6 mo to a year from starting up your worm factory before their populations reach to the point you can just dump a ton of food in there & it will be gone quickly. Anything they don't consume I leave in the trays after harvesting & it goes to the next cycle. I find recycled soil is great bedding & makes super fast compost...I'm harvesting a tray every 3 weeks now.
Temps & humidity are the main factors in keeping them happy. Happy worms don't escape their bins- so keep it in a space that gets room temperature & stays dry. I keep my bin in a dingy basement just underneath the intake for my flower room so not only are my wormies happy my plants get the benefit of the extra CO2 emitting from it. Food scraps should be the main provider of moisture but when you are establishing your bin you may hafta give a spritz of water to keep their bedding moist yet with plenty of airflow; especially if you use a dehumidifier in the area. Give your worms some grit like oyster flour and always add some perlite of pumice to your trays when starting a new one- airflow is just as important as moisture. After a time when it becomes well established you won't hafta do anything & the bin will just regulate moisture by itself.


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## Theophagy (Feb 23, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> That's what I was thinking too, to spread it out. More surface area.
> 
> So to clarify, that would be about a handful spread out on some paper towel right? About once a week for my worm factory since it's small? I obviously will play w it but don't want to add too much too often and fuck it all up again.


Sounds about right...my paper towels tear in half sizes, I think i could use a full piece as fast as they are eating. As far as how often, I would just check that most of the food is gone before adding more, right now I am adding food about once a week.



Richard Drysift said:


> The instruction book that came with my worm factory says they like paper but mine don't eat it unless there's nothing else.


I started off using newspaper too, and came to the same conclusion...when I would harvest, there would always be pieces of the paper still in there.


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## Richard Drysift (Feb 23, 2016)

Theophagy said:


> Sounds about right...my paper towels tear in half sizes, I think i could use a full piece as fast as they are eating. As far as how often, I would just check that most of the food is gone before adding more, right now I am adding food about once a week.
> 
> 
> 
> I started off using newspaper too, and came to the same conclusion...when I would harvest, there would always be pieces of the paper still in there.


Might be the ink..I once found some letters that were munched out from a piece of mail.. Just letters nothing else was left but the ink lol... Tried giving them plain brown packing paper but it's still in there untouched. They go for the mushy thawed scraps & leaves every time. I probly feed them about every 2- 3 weeks now but I give them a lot when I do & kinda forget about em. I only feed maybe twice before the tray gets full & I cover it over & start a new tray. I need fast compost to keep up with my perpetual grow so I'm always waiting on more compost to add to soil recycle bins. Been trying to give them stuff they will consume immediately like pasta & rice.


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## Organicgrow42 (Feb 23, 2016)

I would assume since worms don't actually eat, the paper isn't producing the slime the worms slurp up or at least it isn't doing it very fast as say a bananna. 

How many worms does your worm factory say to start with, I don't know if I have my intructions. Getting worms in the next week or two  

Getting back on track!

Thanks guys for the tips!


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## Richard Drysift (Feb 24, 2016)

It doesn't say but I started out with 500.. Was kidding you about the letters btw...they will eat everything eventually but they always go for the softer stuff first- they don't like junk mail or newspaper as much but they will eat it when there's nothing better. Even 200 worms is enough to start but the more you have the faster the bin becomes established. They grow pretty fast too. Supposed to double in populations every 90 days so you'll more than quadruple the number of worms you started with in the following year.


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## hyroot (Feb 24, 2016)

My recent bin I started with 2 1/2 (2500) pounds of big healthy worms. Same ones I posted a pic of last time. . They've already gone through everything in less than 2 weeks. Made 2 cu ft of castings. Fastest I've ever seen. The most I've ever started with too. Last night I caught a few trying to jump ship. They were chilling at the lid. So I turned a light on over the bin and added some more dry bedding. But now I need to add another level for the flow through. So I can harvest the lower tote.


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## hyroot (Feb 25, 2016)

A rogue wanderlust worm


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## Wetdog (Feb 25, 2016)

I quit using paper years ago as bedding, but what I DO add are palm sized pieces of brown cardboard from shipping boxes.

The worms seem to love the vegetable glue used in the boxes.
More importantly (and why I use it), they love to lay eggs in the little tunnels in the cardboard.

I only add the cardboard once or twice to a bin during a run. First when starting a fresh bin after a harvest and again about mid way through a run. I do a 'lasagna' type deal with a layer of food, then layer of bedding, and repeat. I'll do pretty much a layer of cardboard pieces on top of bedding, then food on top of the cardboard, then bedding when the food gets broken down. Might do a third layer of cardboard in the winter and it's longer between harvests.

I like lots of cocoons in my VC which equals more worms in the garden, containers, and no tills. When they are born into an environment they adapt much better than grown worms.

Wet


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## Rrog (Feb 25, 2016)

@hyroot - you are using totes with holes, stacked like a big Worm Bin 360?


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## hyroot (Feb 25, 2016)

Rrog said:


> @hyroot - you are using totes with holes, stacked like a big Worm Bin 360?



Yeah.

1/2 inch holes and 1/8 inch. I wanted to make sure there's plenty of airflow.






Weed blocker on top of holes






I'm going to add another tote today and Im going to grab another 2 1/2 pounds of worms and make another bin this weekend.


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## Rrog (Feb 25, 2016)




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## Rrog (Feb 25, 2016)

The Worm Inn Mega. I like this better than my 360 worm bin


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## Organicgrow42 (Feb 25, 2016)

@Rrog I almost bought that from BAS but already own the 360 so figured before I spent the 80 or 100 it is, I'd at least get the factory full first and not hopefully kill everything this time.

Do you find it easier to harvest the casting out the bottom or is it about the same as doing a vertical setup?


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## Rrog (Feb 25, 2016)

Simpler and easier harvest. Not dramatically better or anything.


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## Organicgrow42 (Feb 25, 2016)

That's what I figured, how about any smell? I'd be using it in my basement and since it's an open screen that was a bit worrisome to me.

Question for you guys.

I'm thinking of doing the worm factory at my grow and then doing coots style in a 45 gallon at my house...(my grow isn't st my house). 

My question, do you guys think it would be better to one or the other at the grow? I'll be feeding mostly canna leaves at my grow alomg with some dry amendments ect and would be doing worm slurries at home along w dry amendments. 

I'll start doing the 45 gallon fabric smart pot with roughly 15 gallons of base/bedding ect and work it up from there. This will have no lid. 

I work as thinking if I did the 45 gallon at home it would have to be outside so escaping worms and temps would be my concern.

Should I do the 45 gallon inside at the grow and do the worm factory in my shed (which gets hot as hell sometimes even though I'm in Michigan) or do the factory indoors at the grow and the 45 outside under a shaded tree?

I'm a novel writer as I explain too much, I know, just can't help it! The weed...


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## Rrog (Feb 25, 2016)

I did the 25 gallon geopots and worms. Worked great also. No smell. I did it in the basement over the winter. Just need a screen base to let air under.


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## hyroot (Feb 25, 2016)

Rrog said:


> The Worm Inn Mega. I like this better than my 360 worm bin



I like those too. But it cost me $12 to build my bin minus the cost of worms. I'm pulling 2 cu ft per tote. Then plus $5 for each additional tote.


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## Andrew2112 (Feb 25, 2016)

Richard Drysift said:


> Might be the ink..I once found some letters that were munched out from a piece of mail.. Just letters nothing else was left but the ink lol... Tried giving them plain brown packing paper but it's still in there untouched. They go for the mushy thawed scraps & leaves every time. I probly feed them about every 2- 3 weeks now but I give them a lot when I do & kinda forget about em. I only feed maybe twice before the tray gets full & I cover it over & start a new tray. I need fast compost to keep up with my perpetual grow so I'm always waiting on more compost to add to soil recycle bins. Been trying to give them stuff they will consume immediately like pasta & rice.


Does it matter if the pasta and rice cooked or uncooked?


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## Richard Drysift (Feb 25, 2016)

I give them leftovers so it's cooked but I hear uncooked rice is good additive to your soil globally. I only give it to them if my ol lady hasn't dumped butter or anything in it but sure egg noodles, ramen, any starch that isn't full of sodium or dairy. I would think uncooked would be too hard for them to consume.


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## Organicgrow42 (Feb 25, 2016)

@Rrog did you use anything to cover the top of your 25 gallon like a screen to keep worms in at all? I would assume as long as you keep everything healthy then they wouldn't want to dip out right?


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## Rrog (Feb 25, 2016)

Right. I had newspapers on top to keep moisture in. Fed them Bokashi at the time


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## Organicgrow42 (Feb 25, 2016)

Do you think by having it outdoors I'd have any issues with them escaping or just other issues at all? 

I'll be composting outdoors so I don't see why this would be a problem to do outside. 

Is there more of a risk of pests doing it outside? 

Also, do you guys do yours outside? If so, I live on michigan and it can get really hot in the summer, any tips?


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## Wetdog (Feb 26, 2016)

hyroot said:


> I like those too. But it cost me $12 to build my bin minus the cost of worms. I'm pulling 2 cu ft per tote. Then plus $5 for each additional tote.


FWIW, the rubbermaid 18gal totes and 10gal totes have the same L & W dimensions, with the 18gal being taller.

IDK, but I'm thinking stacking the 10gal on a 18gal 'base' might be a bit more stable and easier to work with than all 18gal.

I'm really liking what you did and it would only take a couple of 10 gal to check it out. I have both 18 and 10 gal, but everything is in use ATM. Two new 10 gal would be under $15 to see how it works.

Really a good idea you had.

Wet


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## kkt3 (Feb 26, 2016)

Yesterday was a beautiful sunny day so I decided to see if I can get my worms to migrate to the new bins. New bins have about 40, 1/4" holes drilled in the bottom of them, and about 40, 1/8" holes around the top for ventilation. Got some cardboard boxes and tore it into smaller pieces. Then added some rain water and to soak into the cardboard. Then added some dirt, composted birch leaves and grass clippings and pulp from the apples, carrots and beats we juice. Mixed all that together and then added a 750 ml container of horse manure, fruit pulp, chopped up banana peels, oyster shell flour, alfalfa meal and lots of used herbal teas. Mixed all that, then put the new bin into the first one, then the bin with the worms castings and worms into that one. Put a light above the bin to help the worms migrate to their new home.


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## hyroot (Feb 26, 2016)

Wetdog said:


> FWIW, the rubbermaid 18gal totes and 10gal totes have the same L & W dimensions, with the 18gal being taller.
> 
> IDK, but I'm thinking stacking the 10gal on a 18gal 'base' might be a bit more stable and easier to work with than all 18gal.
> 
> ...



I go with 18 gals because they're $4.39 each here the 10 gals is $8.99 each. I have a bunch of these 18 gals. I made sip's with them and I have been storing soil in the same totes for years. They hold up just fine. I can produce more in the 18 gal than I can a 10 gal.


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## Organicgrow42 (Feb 26, 2016)

@hyroot when u store your soil do u let it get dried out all the way?

If so what do you use this soil for after and what do you do to it in order to use it again? I have a bunch of old soil that I either need to reamend or use in another fasion


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## hyroot (Feb 26, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> @hyroot when u store your soil do u let it get dried out all the way?
> 
> If so what do you use this soil for after and what do you do to it in order to use it again? I have a bunch of old soil that I either need to reamend or use in another fasion


I never let it dry out.

For yours just add some good castings and compost. Mix it up water it. Let it cook for a couple weeks turning every few days. Then add amendments and more castings and compost and then cook for at least a month. Probably add some more aeration too like pumice or rice hulls.


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## Organicgrow42 (Feb 27, 2016)

My old soil was ruining my plants, one reason why I got turned on to a new mix. I feel I some how either put in too little of one amendment and too much of one causing imbalance or just simply added too much of something. They looked burned all the time and just overall like butt. What amendments would you add since I don't really know what I need or have too much of.


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## Organicgrow42 (Feb 27, 2016)

Forgot to mention I didn't do his spike and layers part. Didn't seem right to me. I mixed all the ingredients for the soil mix though. I never added more than it said, if anything I added less since I was low on a couple ingredients.

Back to worms...I order from coots site, northwest redworms I believe they were called. Their video showing how much is a pound of worms sold me. I bought worms in the past and there was no where near that much in the bag when I got them. 

I paid 31.00 with shipping for a LB. I know unclejimswormsfarm has a deal right now for 2000 worms for 30 plus 12 shipping but I figured I'd try this site since a lot order from Jim. 

I'll keep you guys posted on what I receive!


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## Wetdog (Feb 27, 2016)

hyroot said:


> I go with 18 gals because they're $4.39 each here the 10 gals is $8.99 each. I have a bunch of these 18 gals. I made sip's with them and I have been storing soil in the same totes for years. They hold up just fine. I can produce more in the 18 gal than I can a 10 gal.


I was just thinking of the 10's like if the stack got over 2 totes tall. For better stability more than anything.

Yeah, my 18gal are 6+YO now and still working fine. Weird how the 18gal are cheaper than the 10's, but a good thing.

Wet


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## hyroot (Feb 28, 2016)

Wetdog said:


> I was just thinking of the 10's like if the stack got over 2 totes tall. For better stability more than anything.
> 
> Yeah, my 18gal are 6+YO now and still working fine. Weird how the 18gal are cheaper than the 10's, but a good thing.
> 
> Wet



I have the sterilite brand. Although flexible on the sides some what, they do stay stable when stacked. I only fill the bin halfway by the time it's harvested anyway. 
I used to use 30 gals. So the worms have more room to wander. But they were a pain in the ass to move around and harvest from


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## Javadog (Feb 28, 2016)

If my mix has too much N then to soil will smell of ammonia,
I have found. Maybe your soil got too hot over time?


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## hyroot (Feb 29, 2016)

i got 2 more pounds of worms yesterday. Made a new bin and added a 2nd tier (tote) to my other bin. Next month I"ll be making 4 more bins with about 8 pounds more of worms. 3 tiers per bin, 6 bins = 18 tiers x 2 cu ft. *36 cu ft a month
*
These are the best and healthiest worms I have ever gotten.


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## Organicgrow42 (Mar 1, 2016)

@hyroot what are you using as a base to start with? 

Anyone else have a base they want to throw out there? My worms arrive tomorrow and and in a kind of freak out mode. I Read too much and now can't recall any of it lol


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## hyroot (Mar 1, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> @hyroot what are you using as a base to start with?
> 
> Anyone else have a base they want to throw out there? My worms arrive tomorrow and and in a kind of freak out mode. I Read too much and now can't recall any of it lol



My bedding is peatmoss, coco, and dried canna leaves . Then a variety of veggie scraps, crab shell meal (1 tbsp) and rock dusts.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Mar 2, 2016)

I'm gone for ~10 days and yall blow up 4 pages. 
I tried the tote way, it held to much moisture and heat. 8 bucks per tote? I used (2) 2x4x12. Think I paid 2.50/board
And already had the plastic screen.
Been feeding avacado, kiwi and mango. They love the mango!!!!!! Must be at least 1k under that 1 mango half.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Mar 2, 2016)

Where most people will add pockets of food, I just lay down all my fruit scraps on the top. I like to cut the items in half and dust the juicy side with oat/rice flour. 
The middle tray is for veggies and canna leaf. The bottom is mostly carbons and boiled beer grain. Gives them options.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Mar 2, 2016)

I don't think I've ever had not 1 single worm attempt to escape. Learn their food preferences and each species preferences. I have euros and reds.


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## hyroot (Mar 2, 2016)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> Where most people will add pockets of food, I just lay down all my fruit scraps on the top. I like to cut the items in half and dust the juicy side with oat/rice flour.
> The middle tray is for veggies and canna leaf. The bottom is mostly carbons and boiled beer grain. Gives them options.



That's what I and most people do sort of. You put the food on top. Then another layer of bedding on top of that. You don't bury it in already made castings. With small amount of amendments you only need to add a small amount of bedding on top of that. Instead of covering the whole bin.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Mar 2, 2016)

hyroot said:


> That's what I and most people do sort of. You put the food on top. Then another layer of bedding on top of that. You don't bury it in already made castings. With small amount of amendments you only need to add a small amount of bedding on top of that. Instead of covering the whole bin.


Yeah, the worms actually hate being in their own excrement. They'll eat it and refine it up to a certain point, then it becomes toxic to them.
I used to burry, but now a simple sheet of damp newspaper over the top is perfect.
I went with the shredded on top to help add a "sponge" like effect for any evaporation of moisture. It's not 100% efficient, and I do have to on seldom occasions have to mist the paper, but the food source I use has more than enough moisture in it to hydrate the bedding.


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## hyroot (Mar 2, 2016)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> Yeah, the worms actually hate being in their own excrement. They'll eat it and refine it up to a certain point, then it becomes toxic to them.
> I used to burry, but now a simple sheet of damp newspaper over the top is perfect.
> I went with the shredded on top to help add a "sponge" like effect for any evaporation of moisture. It's not 100% efficient, and I do have to on seldom occasions have to mist the paper, but the food source I use has more than enough moisture in it to hydrate the bedding.



I do layer of veggies scraps. Then a layer of damp bedding. Then a dry layer of bedding. The dry layer is to keep them from jumping ship mainly. It's not 100% effective. I've had to keep a light on over the bin.. The place I got my worms from , you have to call them 1 -4 days in advance so they can harvest the worms. They keep the worms in giant outdoor beds with horse manure. They have horses of course. The worms are so used to having all that room to wander. So when they are confined to a much smaller bin, some of them tend to explore and jump ship.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Mar 2, 2016)

hyroot said:


> I do layer of veggies scraps. Then a layer of damp bedding. Then a dry layer of bedding. The dry layer is to keep them from jumping ship mainly. It's not 100% effective. I've had to keep a light on over the bin.. The place I got my worms from , you have to call them 1 -4 days in advance so they can harvest the worms. They keep the worms in giant outdoor beds with horse manure. They have horses of course. The worms are so used to having all that room to wander. So when they are confined to a much smaller bin, some of them tend to explore and jump ship.


I've been looking for a good source of manure. Personally I think it's the better food source compared to dry ammendments. Too bad I live in a big city and I can't legally own or house any livestock. Even chickens aren't allowed. Although rabbits I can do, I'm afraid of fleas getting on my 2 dogs. 
That light over the farm is a great way to stop them from escaping. If I was a worm and had a large living space, I'd jump ship too if I were put into a smaller encloser.

I like the idea of harvesting worms on a per order basis. Keeps the worms health and vitality high. You found a solid source my friend!!!! Do you get alot of cocoons with the order?


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## hyroot (Mar 2, 2016)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> I've been looking for a good source of manure. Personally I think it's the better food source compared to dry ammendments. Too bad I live in a big city and I can't legally own or house any livestock. Even chickens aren't allowed. Although rabbits I can do, I'm afraid of fleas getting on my 2 dogs.
> That light over the farm is a great way to stop them from escaping. If I was a worm and had a large living space, I'd jump ship too if I were put into a smaller encloser.
> 
> I like the idea of harvesting worms on a per order basis. Keeps the worms health and vitality high. You found a solid source my friend!!!! Do you get alot of cocoons with the order?



Yeah lots of cacoons. They give me some extra worms too. The last 2 times I picked up 2 lbs. I got like 2 1/2 pounds. They are far healthier and larger than uncle jims worms. I pay $20 a pound. They're a little over an hour away from me. But last time thet met me half way. They were selling worms to nursery where I met them. 

These worms made 2 cubic feet in 2 weeks. My old bins with uncle jims worms took 2 -3 months to make that much... I did start with only 1 pound then though.


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## Organicgrow42 (Mar 2, 2016)

Grandpa what type of bedding did you start with in that box?

@hyroot same type of bedding I was going to do, thanks!


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Mar 2, 2016)

hyroot said:


> Yeah lots of cacoons. They give me some extra worms too. The last 2 times I picked up 2 lbs. I got like 2 1/2 pounds. They are far healthier and larger than uncle jims worms. I pay $20 a pound. They're a little over an hour away from me. But last time thet met me half way. They were selling worms to nursery where I met them.
> 
> These worms made 2 cubic feet in 2 weeks. My old bins with uncle jims worms took 2 -3 months to make that much... I did start with only 1 pound then though.


They mail ship?
I'll order 5lbs in a month when spring like temps. I don't like the idea of including a hand warmer pack with the order, so I never order in winter. Or summer because it's just too damn hot.


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## hyroot (Mar 2, 2016)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> They mail ship?
> I'll order 5lbs in a month when spring like temps. I don't like the idea of including a hand warmer pack with the order, so I never order in winter. Or summer because it's just too damn hot.



I don't know. I'll have to ask. They're in SoCal


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Mar 2, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> Grandpa what type of bedding did you start with in that box?
> 
> @hyroot same type of bedding I was going to do, thanks!


Shiiiiiiit, I think it's a mix of light warrior by FF and coco. Then I added cypress mulch and orchid bark. Added a few handfuls of an old soil mix that I cropped out with and that's where the Hydroton comes from. Then shredded newspapers and top soil


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Mar 2, 2016)

hyroot said:


> I don't know. I'll have to ask. They're in SoCal


I have a local community garden/ farmers market/nursery I grab from but I get a 5gal of bedding and worms/cocoons for 10 bucks. They're healthy worms and loaded with food in the bedding, also comes with springtails and mites. I found a few centipedes that I'm not happy about but I go through the 5er first before introducing anything to my farm.

But 2 cuft /week is fucking insane! I must have them!!!!!


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## hyroot (Mar 2, 2016)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> I have a local community garden/ farmers market/nursery I grab from but I get a 5gal of bedding and worms/cocoons for 10 bucks. They're healthy worms and loaded with food in the bedding, also comes with springtails and mites. I found a few centipedes that I'm not happy about but I go through the 5er first before introducing anything to my farm.
> 
> But 2 cuft /week is fucking insane! I must have them!!!!!



That's in 2 weeks. I was blown away too. I've never ever seen it that fast before. I dug all through the bin just to check. I'm doing the tier system to harvest. So I ahead ro wait a week or 2 til they all move up.


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## Organicgrow42 (Mar 2, 2016)

Ok so I made my bedding. I wanted to use peat but forgot it at my grow.

So here's what I did. Tell me if something is off.

In a large bowl:
1/2 brick of hydrated coco coir
2 heaping handfuls of shredded paper
2 heaping handfuls of shreddedcardboard
1 handful of organic barley straw
1 cup of organic rice hulls
3 heaping handfuls from the underside of a leaves pile that I have had sitting all winter outside
Roughly 4 cups of soil from a ROLS plant that finished already
1/2 cup of pumice (comes w the worm factory 360)

1 tbsp of the volcanic rock dusts that come w it (worm factory 360)
1/2 tbsp of basalt (just cuz)
1 tbsp of glacial rock dust
1 tbsp of organic oyster shell flour
1 tbsp of organic crustacean meal
1/2 tbsp of organic fish meal
1/2 tbsp of greensand
1/2 tbsp of azomite powder
1tbsp of organic alpaca gold poop
1 tbsp of organic kelp meal
1 tbsp of organic neem cake


As I type all that I realize how much and crazy that sounds....

So I layer that out and then Ill put the worms. I have veggies frozen in freezer that ill pull out tonight, then add them to the blender along with probably a tbsp of karanja cake.

Ill spread that all on a paper towel then add some shredded cardboard and shredded paper on top and then moisten it. This step I feel could be skipped? ( adding the cardboard and paper since I have the paper towel that will be moist?)

Then I was going to add a dry layer with organic barley stray on top to deter escape, pests ect.

What do you guys think?


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## kkt3 (Mar 2, 2016)

That will certainly do for the start. Make sure to have enough paper and cardboard in there for the worms. Its all about personal preference and what your gonna be using the castings for. Ain't this a cool site. I just put fresh bedding in my 2 totes the other day and I used wet cardboard, composting leaves, pulp from apples, carrots and beets, and some horse manure, chopped up banana peels, and a bunch of used herbal teas.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Mar 3, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> Ok so I made my bedding. I wanted to use peat but forgot it at my grow.
> 
> So here's what I did. Tell me if something is off.
> 
> ...


Alpaca Gold? Now I know you've been ordering from build-a-soil. Good shit man! I'd save that alpaca and put it in soil as it is completely safe and non burning. Save the hot manures for the worms, they don't mind.
Props on supporting an organic canna growers company. I like to see that.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Mar 3, 2016)

I'd be proud of that bin! Just remember, if your worms are new, don't overload them with options. Let them acclimate first for a few days to 1 week. Then you can start to hook em up, and they'll go bonkers for anything you give em.
Keep your temps in check. I like to keep my farm at an ambient temp of 75F. Any hotter and they won't be happy and will burrow down where it's cooler. Also the higher temps seem to encourage mites and the like and they will compete for food. Fuck mites, we're not farming them so don't let the numbers get too high, but don't freak when you see them, they're a natural part of vermicomposting.

If you can maintain consistent temps and a preferred food source, your worms will breed like nothing you've ever seen before. All of a sudden, one day when you go to check, you'll have thousands of eggs. 
Eating and breeding is what we want to see!


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Mar 3, 2016)

Why is this thread not a sticky yet? Just sayin.....


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## hyroot (Mar 3, 2016)

Here's the new bin


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## Moe Flo (Mar 3, 2016)

Soil for me is an investment. I can't see why people throw there's out.


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## Rrog (Mar 3, 2016)

They are told to throw it out. Stores don't make $$ when you're not throwing away your soil


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Mar 3, 2016)

Rrog said:


> They are told to throw it out. Stores don't make $$ when you're not throwing away your soil


Grow shops are scumbags and imho completely useless. Ask them how to grow ROLS or NO TILL, they can't tell you. All they do is pitch some shit ass bottled product.


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## Organicgrow42 (Mar 3, 2016)

@Grandpa GreenJeans are you saying to not give them any food scraps yet? Just let them chill in their bedding for a day or two then give them their worm slurry?


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Mar 3, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> @Grandpa GreenJeans are you saying to not give them any food scraps yet? Just let them chill in their bedding for a day or two then give them their worm slurry?


Yesssss sir.


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## Moe Flo (Mar 3, 2016)

I mean I haven't seen a bag soil yet support a rainwater only seedling 2 months+ in a solo



That's some re amended soil 7 months in the worm bin.


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## Beemo (Mar 3, 2016)

Moe Flo said:


> Soil for me is an investment. I can't see why people throw there's out.
> View attachment 3622246


especially when there's rock/sandy minerals in there, that doesnt break down after a year or two...


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## Mohican (Mar 3, 2016)

I have found that my worms do not like neem.


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## DonBrennon (Mar 3, 2016)

Mohican said:


> I have found that my worms do not like neem.


Care to elaborate? I'm having worm bin issues and really trying to learn. My worm bins are too acidic and my soil's too alkaline, bollocks pmsl

On a serious note though, was it exodus or just avoidance?

It's not happened recently, but I've had mass exodus's in a bedroom wormbin...........not good..........trying to dig worm out of a carpet is no fun at all, for you or the worms lol


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## GreenSanta (Mar 3, 2016)

most common mistake raising worms in a bin is over feeding, I did it too, in fact I never successfully raised worms in a bin... I gave up after my first failure, it wasnt for me, now I raise them outdoor not in a bin.


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## Organicgrow42 (Mar 3, 2016)

I just got my worms. They sent me 2 lbs. This is a full 2 lbs too. Like a butt load. I'm concerned the tray is either too small or I don't have enough bedding. What do you guys think? I'll post a pic later, got to feed the baby!


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## Organicgrow42 (Mar 3, 2016)

When it comes to feeding do you feed once a week if doing a slurry spread out on a paper towel?


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## Mohican (Mar 3, 2016)

Getting the bin too wet is a problem.

I killed my worms when I used neem.


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## kkt3 (Mar 3, 2016)

Feeding them on a schedule does not fit. They will let you know when they need food. I typically feed my worm bins about every 8 to 10 days or so. There is some fruit pulp sitting on the counter that I took out of the freezer this morning. Gonna feed it to the worms in my living soil by putting it on the dirt then covering it up with some damp cardboard.


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## Organicgrow42 (Mar 3, 2016)

Well right about the schedule I just meant I need to look out for it about every week. They will tell you by how much food is left in the container right?


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## Blunted 4 lyfe (Mar 4, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> Well right about the schedule I just meant I need to look out for it about every week. They will tell you by how much food is left in the container right?


What's the name of that site, I tried coots worm farm came up blank. I'm looking for two pounds.
Thanks! 

B4L


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## 240sxing (Mar 4, 2016)

https://unclejimswormfarm.com/
Very active on arrival.


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## Organicgrow42 (Mar 5, 2016)

Northwestredworms.com

Best order I have had. An ass load of large healthy worms! You won't regret it


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Mar 5, 2016)

When it comes to feeding any worm bin, you need to know how many pounds of worms you have. Worms will eat their own weight, so adjust accordingly. This is the #1 reason bins fail from going rancid, acidic or being to wet.
When you overfeed your encouraging those unfavorable conditions. Worms can still acclimate to an acidic bin but now your providing a more suitable environment for mites, ect.... these compete with the worms and the worms will suffer. Harmony is key in a properly balanced worm farm.


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## Organicgrow42 (Mar 5, 2016)

Ok so I waited a day and then added my slurry made up of parsley, 1 banana, a few pieces of celery, carrot, egg shells, and a half tbls of karanja cake. What do you think? Just some extra food scraps I had laying so I froze them then thawed and spread em onnnnnn. 

I was thinking of not checking for about 5 days...this sound about right? Wait to feed til I don't see about any slop again?


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## Moe Flo (Mar 5, 2016)

I dunno but when I re-do my bin (10 gal) I add the worms to the bottom, then like 1000 worms is like a pound so I add up to 4 lbs of rinsed egg shells, coffee grinds and banana peels, that's added to one side. Also I add my amendments/guanos. I cover with a foot of soil for like 2 mo. It's usually done by then.


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## kkt3 (Mar 6, 2016)

Make sure you grind up your eggshells as fine as you can. Otherwise your bins will accumulate a lot of residual eggshells over time.


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## kkt3 (Mar 6, 2016)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> I'm gone for ~10 days and yall blow up 4 pages.
> I tried the tote way, it held to much moisture and heat. 8 bucks per tote? I used (2) 2x4x12. Think I paid 2.50/board
> And already had the plastic screen.
> Been feeding avacado, kiwi and mango. They love the mango!!!!!! Must be at least 1k under that 1 mango half.
> View attachment 3621409 View attachment 3621411 View attachment 3621412 View attachment 3621413


Hey Grandpa, is that perlite in your pics? If so, how much do you add to your bins and what's the benefit?


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## Organicgrow42 (Mar 10, 2016)

When the worms are not really doing anything w the slop, it just needs to further decompose I assume before they will feast?


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## Rasta Roy (Mar 11, 2016)

New to worm bins, can I feed my worms blood meal, bone meal, greensand, Alfalfa Meal, and kelp meal to create some premium castings?


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## Rrog (Mar 11, 2016)

Better to use a diversity of materials to compost. You'll get all the basics from food scraps. 

Mineral powders like Greensand are cool to add. Fine N-charged biochar


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## Rasta Roy (Mar 11, 2016)

Rrog said:


> Better to use a diversity of materials to compost. You'll get all the basics from food scraps.
> 
> Mineral powders like Greensand are cool to add. Fine N-charged biochar


I'm working at a level of size that I can not produce enough food scraps to compost. I need to add food, something I can buy big bags of and add.


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## Rrog (Mar 11, 2016)

That's very cool! Well, a common feed is newspaper, and you could consider stretching your food with that. Obviously varied food and organic material are better.


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## kkt3 (Mar 16, 2016)

Hey Rasta Roy, get your friends to start saving you their leftover fruit and veggie scraps. Then chop them up a bit and freeze them. Take them out a day before feeding. That gives the fruit and veggies time to thaw out. Worms don't eat the food, they digest the slime from the rotting food. And since you froze their food, it will break down even faster for them to do their magic. Here's a pic of a couple dishes I just made up for my 2 worm bins. Into the freezer they go. Some old spaghetti squash with banana peels chopped up over top. And some herbal camomille tea with some of my maryjane tea on the top. Just sippin the cup now. I have one every day!!!

This is from the Red Worm Composting site. " it is actually the microorganisms growing on waste materials that provides the main source of nutrition, _not_ the material itself – but of course the worms do manage to slurp up the rotting material in the process."


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## Rasta Roy (Mar 16, 2016)

kkt3 said:


> Hey Rasta Roy, get your friends to start saving you their leftover fruit and veggie scraps. Then chop them up a bit and freeze them. Take them out a day before feeding. That gives the fruit and veggies time to thaw out. Worms don't eat the food, they digest the slime from the rotting food. And since you froze their food, it will break down even faster for them to do their magic. Here's a pic of a couple dishes I just made up for my 2 worm bins. Into the freezer they go. Some old spaghetti squash with banana peels chopped up over top. And some herbal camomille tea with some of my maryjane tea on the top. Just sippin the cup now. I have one every day!!!View attachment 3633810


Nice! The freezer thing is a good idea. I've got a traditional worm bin set up now for food scraps and the like. Buttt I get bored real easily so I also set up two other worm bins with black peat for bedding mixed in with some of my favorite garden amendments mixed in. Trying to do my own twist on what the 14 day worm castings guy does except I'm not trying to rush them in 14 days, I'm still using red wiggler, and I'm using organic garden amendments instead of worm feed and chicken mash. I'm gonna get it lab tested afterwards to see how much of that black peat got turned into quality castings and to get the guaranteed analysis. Then I'm gonna do some test runs and some more bins and I'll let yall know how it goes.


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## kkt3 (Mar 16, 2016)

Wow, your on the right track for sure. Looking forward to hearing more about it. Great job!!!


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## kkt3 (Mar 30, 2016)

I have some squash that's been laying around for a while and some has gotten quite rotten. At what point is it to rotten to add to my worm bins? Check out the pic and let me know if this stuff is still okay to add to the bins.


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## Mohican (Mar 30, 2016)

They seem to like rotten even better!


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 30, 2016)

I thought that I would share my DIY worm bin! I finally got more pallets from my neighbor yesterday. I had 4 of them to start with and I was able to make a model to see if it would really work. I think that I will be happy with this for sure. I will have enough pallets to 4 sections. I will have the wire screen inbetween the sections and the blue pallets were slightly larger than the black ones, so they will make excellent lids! 
If my screws are the right size, I should have this done in a couple of hours! The chain link fence was a chicken cage from the previous owners. A tree fell on it and broke majority of the fence and I tried to pull it from the ground, but it is buried and I think that they used concrete in places! I cant figure out anything useful for it?

The only major design flaw that I can think of is air flow! I do have chickens and love my compost, so I have to keep everything covered.


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## Rasta Roy (Mar 31, 2016)

Anybody ever seen red bugs like this in your worm bin? This is the bin I fed composted manure too, the other ones don't have these bugs. I took outside away from everything else.


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## Theophagy (Mar 31, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Anybody ever seen red bugs like this in your worm bin? This is the bin I fed composted manure too, the other ones don't have these bugs. I took outside away from everything else.


They're really hard to see in the picture, I have some red mites in my bin, they should be fine.
check this out, see if this what you have.
http://www.redwormcomposting.com/worm-composting/a-mite-is-a-mite-is-a-mite-not-quite/


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## Rasta Roy (Mar 31, 2016)

Theophagy said:


> They're really hard to see in the picture, I have some red mites in my bin, they should be fine.
> check this out, see if this what you have.
> http://www.redwormcomposting.com/worm-composting/a-mite-is-a-mite-is-a-mite-not-quite/


Lol yea I couldn't really get a good picture of them but they're fast moving and light brown so they must be the predatory mites! So I'm all good! I think the bin might have just been a little too moist


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## Rasta Roy (Mar 31, 2016)

Anybody ever feed fish bone meal or bone meal to their worms? Would it be too much protein for the worms? Any opinions on what to feed the worms to increase the magnesium in their castings?


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## Mohican (Mar 31, 2016)

They will love it!


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## hyroot (Apr 1, 2016)

I sold 2 cubic feet of my own castings today for $60. They were so stoked on them too. Theres was provably 1000s of cacoons in the castings I gave them too. They were pretty visible.

The beginnings of one of my new ventures.

I do the tier system. And I thought half of the worms made the journey up and the rest would be at the surface. I was wrong.

Aside from the surface dwellers. There's was 5 times more worms (babies, teenagers, adults ) than I originally put in there. 2 months ago. They were at the middle and bottom of the bin .

So I started another bin with half of those worms.


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## Organicgrow42 (Apr 1, 2016)

@hyroot you do Rubbermaids now right? 

Anyone ever seen white mites in the bin? I have a bunch all over a worm and appear to be feeding off it, I'll take a pic next time I go. Worm was still alive, I read they can feast on injured or whatever so just checking with you guys.

Also I've been looking for comfrey for awhile to grow and then run through the compost and then through the worm bin. Anyone know of where to get it? I'm looking for a root as this will grow the fastest. 

If anyone grows it, I got some $ for you if you want to send me a cutting/root that will grow into a plant or a few cuttings actually would be best.


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## Blunted 4 lyfe (Apr 1, 2016)

QUOTE="Organicgrow42, post: 12472176, member: 919009"]@hyroot you do Rubbermaids now right?

Anyone ever seen white mites in the bin? I have a bunch all over a worm and appear to be feeding off it, I'll take a pic next time I go. Worm was still alive, I read they can feast on injured or whatever so just checking with you guys.

Also I've been looking for comfrey for awhile to grow and then run through the compost and then through the worm bin. Anyone know of where to get it? I'm looking for a root as this will grow the fastest.

If anyone grows it, I got some $ for you if you want to send me a cutting/root that will grow into a plant or a few cuttings actually would be best. [/QUOTE]

I was reading up on mites in wormbin a myself, white mites are harmless to your worms, on the other hand they might compete with whatever food you might be feeding your worms. The mites that are harmful to your worms are reddish/brown.

B4L


http://www.redwormcomposting.com/category/worm-tea/


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 1, 2016)

I can't find it now but I saw a pic the other day on here of someone with their worm bin set up in smart pots? Anyone else do this? What do you for a lid? Just throw a piece of cardboard over it?


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## Organicgrow42 (Apr 1, 2016)

You could do that or leave a light on over it or I use barley straw


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## Mohican (Apr 1, 2016)

I used a trashcan lid or a bigger smart pot as a lid.


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## Javadog (Apr 1, 2016)

H, IIRC the worms will not necessarily move upward, but that they will
avoid their own wastes that will build up as they material that they are
in becomes just castings, and that they will move up as the bottom is left
as recoverable castings.

This was the story as told by the stacked bin sellers put it. I just wondered 
if maybe that was why your worms were not where expected....there may have
just been food left where they still were?


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 1, 2016)

Mohican said:


> I used a trashcan lid or a bigger smart pot as a lid.


Any advantage with the smart pot vs the standard bin? I would think with the smart pot I would have to be adding moisture all the time.


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## hyroot (Apr 1, 2016)

Javadog said:


> H, IIRC the worms will not necessarily move upward, but that they will
> avoid their own wastes that will build up as they material that they are
> in becomes just castings, and that they will move up as the bottom is left
> as recoverable castings.
> ...



The largest worms were at the top. When worms lay eggs or cacoons. They travel to the bottom for safety issues. So the cacoons survive. So the babies slowly make their way up as they get bigger. 



Nightcrawler worms will stay at the bottom and red wigglers prefer the surface .

I'm pretty sure mine are all red wigglers. The worm farmer I got them from has giant outdoor wood bin filled with horse manure and straw. They have a bunch of horses too. Those worms are more used to being able to wonder a lot more than they do in my bins too.


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## Wetdog (Apr 2, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Any advantage with the smart pot vs the standard bin? I would think with the smart pot I would have to be adding moisture all the time.


They are adding moisture all the time. IDK, tried them years ago, but never fell in love (or even like), with them.

Wet


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## Wetdog (Apr 2, 2016)

*Organicgrow42 * 

Horizonherbs.com is who you want for Comfrey crowns.

I don't compost them, but freeze fresh leaves and feed right to the worms. They love it. 90% of the worm food is fresh/frozen comfrey and coffee grounds.

Wet


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## Mohican (Apr 2, 2016)

They seem to like the breathing room.


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## Rrog (Apr 2, 2016)

Worm Inn Mega is a big fabric sided deal. I like it


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## mucha_mota (Apr 2, 2016)

this thread should be sticky too.


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## Javadog (Apr 2, 2016)

I paid a few bucks for a sterile cultivar of Comfrey (Bocking 14).

I made a cured comfrey feed for my garden but never got out
to use it...lol, it is a science experiment now.

I need to give it a better bed and take more if it as plant food.

JD


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## Organicgrow42 (Apr 2, 2016)

@Javadog since it's sterile, do you plan to just buy it again next year or do they just come back in spring or do they even die back in winter? I admit a Google search could provide this info now as I write this.. lol


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## hyroot (Apr 3, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> @Javadog since it's sterile, do you plan to just buy it again next year or do they just come back in spring or do they even die back in winter? I admit a Google search could provide this info now as I write this.. lol


https://www.strictlymedicinalseeds.com/product.asp?specific=917

*What's the difference between this plant and true comfrey(Symphytum officinalis)?* TheBocking 14 cultivar of Russian Comfrey (Symphytum x uplandicum) is a sterile hybrid that will not self-seed and is extremely robust and vigorous. The true comfrey (Symphytum officinalis) is a bit less vigorous of a grower, has more elongated leaves and (I think) prettier flowers, and does indeed make seed. Although both types of comfrey (Russian and True) are useful for making medicine and making compost, in an ideal world one would use the bocking cultivar for producing large amounts of biomass for permaculture gardens, composting, and animal feed, and one would use the true comfrey (Symphytum officinalis) for medicinal purposes. Again, both types (and other species as well) are used interchangeably in agriculture and in medicine


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## Wetdog (Apr 3, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> @Javadog since it's sterile, do you plan to just buy it again next year or do they just come back in spring or do they even die back in winter? I admit a Google search could provide this info now as I write this.. lol


You literally cannot kill this stuff. At least the sterile stays sorta put. Even with the sterile, you dig it up you get a plant(s) from the crown/roots AND it will pop back up from where you dug it up. VOE

Plan carefully before you plant because it will be in that spot forever. You want a big bunch? Run over a plant with a rototiller. LOL

Wet


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## Javadog (Apr 3, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> @Javadog since it's sterile, do you plan to just buy it again next year or do they just come back in spring or do they even die back in winter? I admit a Google search could provide this info now as I write this.. lol


Good response Hy. 

I would add that I love where there is not enough of a freeze 
for me to lose these sorts of things over-winter. I never consider
this when offering up my advice. I have no idea how hardy this
plant is....the idea is that this plant can be a nuisance...like a giant
crab-grass when it spreads by both seed and rhysome (sp?), 
and that this cultivar is useful but more controllable.

I use it for the composting quality.

JD


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## Wetdog (Apr 3, 2016)

It overwinters just fine in zone 7A and a bud grows a bunch in Maine. Goes dormant, but pops right up in Spring.

Wet


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## DonBrennon (Apr 3, 2016)

Just been adding some other plants to my new comfrey/mixed berry raised bed, I topdressed and mulched it while I was at it. I can't be certain if these are sterile or not, I'd have to assume not because I found them in a small wooded area next to an allotment, so unless one of the growers threw a root over the fence which took, it must've come from a seed. When I found it I simply hacked a big chunk of the crown off with a spade, took it home and divided it up.
   

The black bags around the wall are my dogs shit, my latest attempt at deterring next doors cats from shitting in my bed.

The other plants are Gooseberry, pink gooseberry, blackberry, raspberry, borage, yarrow, marigolds and a solitary nasturtium, probably not quite had the last frost yet, but shouldn't get anything too severe to do too much harm.

Getting ready for some explosive growth, it's a south facing wall so gets plenty of light. I've had potatoes in here in previous years which grew like something out of day of the triffids, I just hope I got all the spuds out


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## Joe Blows Trees (Apr 3, 2016)

I harvested worm castings today  and happen to notice alot of mites running around on top. Not sure if they're predator or enemy so I put the harvest in the garage. Just dealt with an outbreak.


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 3, 2016)

Joe Blows Trees said:


> I harvested worm castings today View attachment 3649112 and happen to notice alot of mites running around on top. Not sure if they're predator or enemy so I put the harvest in the garage. Just dealt with an outbreak.


I had some similar looking ones in my bin as well! I believe they're beneficial predatory mites, but man it's so hard to tell. If they're fast moving red or brown they're supposed to be good. I asked a similar question a few entries ago on this thread and someone posted a pretty helpful link of you scroll back a couple pages in the thread. I was thinking about just mixing some diatomaceous earth into the castings and my worm bin to deal with mine just in case they're bad and I'm diagnosing wrong. Probably later tonight actually. I just harvested from my first bin a few nights ago and I'm about to do my second bin in a little bit. Cutting down some plants in my flower room tonight too! It's gonna be a good night!


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 3, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> Just been adding some other plants to my new comfrey/mixed berry raised bed, I topdressed and mulched it while I was at it. I can't be certain if these are sterile or not, I'd have to assume not because I found them in a small wooded area next to an allotment, so unless one of the growers threw a root over the fence which took, it must've come from a seed. When I found it I simply hacked a big chunk of the crown off with a spade, took it home and divided it up.
> View attachment 3648786 View attachment 3648787 View attachment 3648790
> 
> The black bags around the wall are my dogs shit, my latest attempt at deterring next doors cats from shitting in my bed.
> ...


So jealous of your garden bed! We moved into our house over the winter so I'm building boxes for our yard now but our backyard is covered in shade from four huge trees. I'm gonna get a tree cutting service out to deal with it cause they're all running through the power lines that run to my house, and my neighbor's house respectively. Such a pain in the ass! Super stoked to get the veggie garden going though!


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## Blunted 4 lyfe (Apr 3, 2016)

Joe Blows Trees said:


> I harvested worm castings today View attachment 3649112 and happen to notice alot of mites running around on top. Not sure if they're predator or enemy so I put the harvest in the garage. Just dealt with an outbreak.


Hey Joe I thought I sent you the link where it explains the different mites in a worm bin which was good which was bad.

http://www.redwormcomposting.com/category/worm-tea/

Scroll down to the mites section, BTW I just checked and I realized I had sent you the site where I got my worms from northwestredworms.com

B4L


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## Organicgrow42 (Apr 4, 2016)

I didn't see a mites section. Will keep looking.


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## hyroot (Apr 4, 2016)

Mites in the bin are usually predatory mites. They feed on the same organic material the worms eat. It just means you have too much uncomposted material. You over fed your worms a bit. Just don't add anymore food. The predatory mites will die off eventually once all the uncomposted material is gone. They're not harmful. They're beneficial anyway. . They eat other pests too. They will compete with worms for food though.


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## Joe Blows Trees (Apr 4, 2016)

Good to know hyroot. Thought I wasn't feeding them enough until I saw the explosion in population of the worms. So many babies and eggs, I moved them to a bigger bin.


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## MidnightXTRCTS (Apr 5, 2016)

I just found this thread and read through a few pages. Just learned that people fed pot trim and stems and leaves to the red wrigglers! SO awesome.
Thanks for the interesting ideas Rollitup!

My question is, "Has anyone grabbed a handful of rich brown worm castings straight from bin and set it into a mesh bag for compost tea?"
I did it today with some blood meal, molasses, and kelp. Put it into a 5 gallon bucket with a 2 inch cylindrical air stone pushing some bubble action.

Is this a good use of the rich castings or am I better off working them into the topsoil of the garden?

I love my crazy worms! I think cleaned, dried, smashed eggshells in the worm bin makes them happy. There always seems to be more eggs and tiny baby worms after adding the eggshells. Just my observation, no science involved.


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 5, 2016)

MidnightXTRCTS said:


> I just found this thread and read through a few pages. Just learned that people fed pot trim and stems and leaves to the red wrigglers! SO awesome.
> Thanks for the interesting ideas Rollitup!
> 
> My question is, "Has anyone grabbed a handful of rich brown worm castings straight from bin and set it into a mesh bag for compost tea?"
> ...


I'm sure fresh castings would be great for a compost tea just don't throw in any worms! I would skip the blood meal though my friend! I like to use it in soil mixes but in an aerated tea I don't think it's high salt content would be good for your microbe population imo. You should be getting nitrogen from your castings anyway. Fish emulsion or hydrolyzed fish fertilizer is a better way to add nitrogen if you need more.


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## MidnightXTRCTS (Apr 5, 2016)

Thanks Rasta!
I'm going to listen to you on that blood meal tip. Didn't realize it had high salt content.
I've only gotten compost tea from our local farm supply store that give away samples from an expensive set up they sell. This was my first attempt at it. After reading more I realize I'm better off with just the castings and a little molasses to keep it simple.

I like the idea of feeding the worms scraps from my garden and using their castings to make a tea to support the garden soil. It's a circle of life in my very own yard...

Your right about checking for worms! I spent an hour picking out tiny tiny babies out of the handful of castings with a pin. I didn't want to drown them of course, they're so cute!


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## Yodaweed (Apr 5, 2016)

Joe Blows Trees said:


> I harvested worm castings today View attachment 3649112 and happen to notice alot of mites running around on top. Not sure if they're predator or enemy so I put the harvest in the garage. Just dealt with an outbreak.





Rasta Roy said:


> I had some similar looking ones in my bin as well! I believe they're beneficial predatory mites, but man it's so hard to tell. If they're fast moving red or brown they're supposed to be good. I asked a similar question a few entries ago on this thread and someone posted a pretty helpful link of you scroll back a couple pages in the thread. I was thinking about just mixing some diatomaceous earth into the castings and my worm bin to deal with mine just in case they're bad and I'm diagnosing wrong. Probably later tonight actually. I just harvested from my first bin a few nights ago and I'm about to do my second bin in a little bit. Cutting down some plants in my flower room tonight too! It's gonna be a good night!


I have mites, red ones are very common and are part of the decomposing process, they compete with your worms for food, so if they are out of control you can open your bin let it dry a bit, they hate the dryness, they prefer a wet environment, lots of them also means your bin could be too wet. If you want to get rid of them put a melon rind in there, they flock to it, take it out each day and clean it off under some really hot water then put it back in, you can kill a crapload that way. They also are attracted to potato peels.


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 5, 2016)

MidnightXTRCTS said:


> Thanks Rasta!
> I'm going to listen to you on that blood meal tip. Didn't realize it had high salt content.
> I've only gotten compost tea from our local farm supply store that give away samples from an expensive set up they sell. This was my first attempt at it. After reading more I realize I'm better off with just the castings and a little molasses to keep it simple.
> 
> ...


Hell yea, keeping it simple is usually the best route. 

I set up multiple bins because I couldn't decide what to feed my worms! I got one for kitchen and garden scraps, one for garden amendments, and I recently started another one with some locally sourced rabbit manure from a friend.

Gonna send samples to MSU for testing (I live right by it) and run some side by side comparisons in my gardens.


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## Organicgrow42 (Apr 6, 2016)

@Rasta Roy you and I are the same person in our journey right now I feel lol

I currently have another bin I'm setting up and going to also be running results through MSU cuz I live right by it haha

I'll be running my outdoor veggie garden and my indoor cannabis garden first then running worm bin stuff.

Great minds think alike I guess!


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 6, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> @Rasta Roy you and I are the same person in our journey right now I feel lol
> 
> I currently have another bin I'm setting up and going to also be running results through MSU cuz I live right by it haha
> 
> ...


We're gonna have to start a Motivated Michigander's thread! Lol

Have you been able to get your red worms locally? I got mine from Grand river bait and tackle shop in Lansing for like $25 a pound I think? I'm not sure if that's cheaper than online but it sure cuts down on wait time lol.


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## Organicgrow42 (Apr 6, 2016)

Right! I'm in lol

I got mine from northwest redworms online. Couldn't find a local source. Probably could in a few weeks on craiglist, we are just the early birds! I ordered 1 lb from northwest and they sent me 2! I think they were 30 or 35 each for anyone wondering.

I bought some from a hippie in Ann Arbor which is like 45 mins from btw and they were nothing like what I bought from northwest. Fully mature and a boat load of them. I watched a video on how they weigh them. You really get as close to a lb as possible.

I've had them going about 4 weeks now and they have a but load of eggs going.

Besides the mites which I'm thinking maybe the bin is too wet...I'll post a pic later of the bin....everything is great. Got my 45 gallon smart pot bin I'm starting this week too!


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## Blunted 4 lyfe (Apr 6, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> Right! I'm in lol
> 
> I got mine from northwest redworms online. Couldn't find a local source. Probably could in a few weeks on craiglist, we are just the early birds! I ordered 1 lb from northwest and they sent me 2! I think they were 30 or 35 each for anyone wondering.
> 
> ...


I got mine from northwest too they sell it at $25+$6 shipping for 1 pound $48+$12 shipping for 2 pounds.

I bought my first batch of worms from Uncle Jims but they were scrawny as hell and I was very unhappy with the count (100 cnt, wonder if they really count or just eyeball it), may cost a bit more at NW but the count and size of worms you get are wayyyy better.

I live in the same state as UJ Pa. But 2 hrs away no sense spending 4-5 of drive time and gas when I could have it shipped for cheaper, but it took UJ 4 days to get here and from NW it took 2 days from across the US, go figure!

B4L


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## skinny510 (Apr 6, 2016)

Oh god, another mammoth thread to catch up on! 

Newbie problems...


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## Mohican (Apr 6, 2016)

This one will change your life!


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 6, 2016)

You know you'd rather waste your phone time here instead of on Facebook!


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## HelpHub (Apr 6, 2016)

If you guys are able to go to Ann Arbor for your worms you should look up my buddy Jesse at Starr Valley Farms. He's a good dude and may just be the hippie to whom Organicgrow42 is referring!

http://www.starrvalleyfarms.com/Home.php


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## skinny510 (Apr 6, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> You know you'd rather waste your phone time here instead of on Facebook!


Haha. Ditched Facebook years ago.

But yes, better to read about worm shit than most other things on the internet! 

I picked up a "farm/factory" yesterday. Found something cheap on Craiglist and just went for it. Will read up and probably learn from a few rounds of failure.

Right now the critters I got are munching on some carrots peel and corn meal.


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## Organicgrow42 (Apr 6, 2016)

I think he may have been. No offense but the worms were small and immature and no way close to a pound. I may have got a half pound... I'm not sure ...but the size of worms and amount of them was very miniscule. I wouldn't and did not buy from again.

That being said, the worms did grow obviously and I had worms for months before "the great escape" so good and bad I guess.


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## Organicgrow42 (Apr 6, 2016)

skinny510 said:


> Haha. Ditched Facebook years ago.
> 
> But yes, better to read about worm shit than most other things on the internet!
> 
> ...


I really hope you don't live near royal oak skinny cuz I attempted to buy another factory on craiglist this weekend for 35 bucks and it was already gone!!!! Lol


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## skinny510 (Apr 6, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> I really hope you don't live near royal oak skinny cuz I attempted to buy another factory on craiglist this weekend for 35 bucks and it was already gone!!!! Lol


Don't worry, I'm on the West Coast


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## Organicgrow42 (Apr 6, 2016)

Thank JC. That would have been too weird for me... lol


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## HelpHub (Apr 6, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> I think he may have been. No offense but the worms were small and immature and no way close to a pound. I may have got a half pound... I'm not sure ...but the size of worms and amount of them was very miniscule. I wouldn't and did not buy from again.
> 
> That being said, the worms did grow obviously and I had worms for months before "the great escape" so good and bad I guess.


Oh, that's too bad...I thought you were saying the worms you got from him (or from whomever in Ann Arbor) were better than mail order. Either way, Jesse is the dude who got me started on worms so he's got my loyalty for that reason.


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## Organicgrow42 (Apr 6, 2016)

What is everyone's preferred aeration for their bins?

I use perlite in my soil and want to switch but don't want to do vermiculite or rice hulls ( I have a bag I'm going to try using but don't think I'll get the smell aeration as w perlite)

Anyone love their aeration and want to share why they love it over perlite because we all tried perlite first let's be honest haha


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## Organicgrow42 (Apr 6, 2016)

@HelpHub that's great man. Glad you had a positive experience! I wish I did because I feel it's partially why I moved away from worms and took awhile to come back.

But like I said its great your into worms like us...and that he helped you get there!


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## Organicgrow42 (Apr 6, 2016)

My bin

Tell me what u think!

First pic barley straw on top

I just mixed it up cuz I thought it was too wet and added some cannabis leaves to dry it out. They look wet but they are dried first trust me.

3rd pic is of some worm eggs!

4th pic is of a worm with those white mites I was talking about...they look to be feeding off the worm right?!


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 6, 2016)

I


Organicgrow42 said:


> What is everyone's preferred aeration for their bins?
> 
> I use perlite in my soil and want to switch but don't want to do vermiculite or rice hulls ( I have a bag I'm going to try using but don't think I'll get the smell aeration as w perlite)
> 
> Anyone love their aeration and want to share why they love it over perlite because we all tried perlite first let's be honest haha


I'm still on perlite lol. I can tell you to avoid chicken manure! I burned some poor babies up lol.


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## Blunted 4 lyfe (Apr 7, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> I didn't see a mites section. Will keep looking.


Sorry wrong info, you gotta put in mites into the search bar on left, my bad.

B4L


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## calliandra (Apr 7, 2016)

Organicgrow42 said:


> 4th pic is of a worm with those white mites I was talking about...they look to be feeding off the worm right?!


Ah yes, I was mystified by those a while back too and still haven't been able to put a name on them.  lol
They do look like they're latched onto that worm there, but apparently they're scavengers and only really eat worms when they're dead or dying --
http://www.redwormcomposting.com/worm-composting/a-mite-is-a-mite-is-a-mite-not-quite/


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 22, 2016)

Here's an update on my vermicomposting experiments.

First some background: there's a book by Bruce Galle called 14 Day Worm Castings that is a pretty simple to follow guide to setting up your own worm casting business. It involves using African night crawlers instead of the traditional red wigglers, along with bedding of black peat and feed that includes chicken mash, worm chow, and lime. Now anyone that knows about worms will tell you, yeah that will get you castings... But they're not going to be the quality of traditional worm castings. Now I wanted to try to emulate his model, but without changing to the inferior composting worm, and without the cheap feedstock ingredients. 

I still used black peat for bedding...
But for feeding the worms I used Alfalfa Meal, kelp, fish bone meal, Oyster Shell Flour, a little bit of lime and Greensand

And I let them go for four weeks, not two.

How'd it go?

Not well. Lol

The worms didn't die (well a few did)

But they weren't thriving and reproducing like they should. They were always trying to escape. And the bedding materials has not been turned into rich castings. Just some amended black peat with some castings. 

So lesson learned, there are no shortcuts! 

Now I've got a multilevel worm bin set up that I'm feeding food scraps to. I have a friend with pet rabbits and for bedding I'm using their litter after he throws it out. It consists of Alfalfa hay and Timothy hay, a thin compostable cardboard paper product, and of course lots of rabbit manure. I mix it in with some of my recycled soil before its re-amended and throw in some rock dust for grit. Then the food scraps are buried underneath it. I'll update in a few months when I harvest the first castings. The worms seem to be a lot more active in this bin, and they're not trying to escape! Good signs!


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## HelpHub (Apr 22, 2016)

My worms LOVE my rabbit's poop...


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 22, 2016)

HelpHub said:


> My worms LOVE my rabbit's poop...


That's reassuring to hear! How long do they usually take to break it down?


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## HelpHub (Apr 23, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> That's reassuring to hear! How long do they usually take to break it down?


To be honest I've never paid attention to the time they take because I pretty much just ignore my worms other than feeding them once a week or so. But I have seen little baby worms massed around spots of rabbit poop in the bin. This makes me think the worms may be laying their cocoons where there are these large pockets of poop.


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## Javadog (Apr 23, 2016)

HelpHub said:


> large pockets of poop.


What a thread! :0)

Hoping that you are all having a great weekend,

JD


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (Apr 26, 2016)

Read through this thread, but didn't see any advice on bedding material ratios. Figure it would be different based on user, but might as well ask.

Would you all say 8qt of coir to 10gal bin is a sufficient worm bedding? 10gal=40qt(160cup) 40/8=5, so 20%?
Also, add 2 cups pearlite? 2/160= .0125, 1.25%?

Built a sterlite bin, 10gal, and a 3/4"PVC spacer to separate the juice from their future home. 'Bout to order worms sometime this week.


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## Wetdog (Apr 26, 2016)

Any particular reason for using coir? I've used my own peat based bedding for the last 5-6 years, but can't recall anyone using coir. Not that it didn't happen, but I'm eat up with old-timers.

I've always just eyeballed it when adding bedding.

Wet


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (Apr 26, 2016)

I was reading about how worms take time to break down paper beddings. I also add coir to soil. So I figure this and that, maybe, maybe not. I have not added anything to the bin as of yet, but I do have a freezer container filling up with refuse.

What guesstimation is your peat ratio to container size?


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## greasemonkeymann (Apr 26, 2016)

i just like compost and old soil for my bedding, works perfect, plus then when it's "ready" I don't have to worry about adding more aeration , you could fill it up with wet leaves too.


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## greasemonkeymann (Apr 26, 2016)

RuRu.The.Half.Elf said:


> I was reading about how worms take time to break down paper beddings. I also add coir to soil. So I figure this and that, maybe, maybe not. I have not added anything to the bin as of yet, but I do have a freezer container filling up with refuse.
> 
> What guesstimation is your peat ratio to container size?


I don't think it's that scientific, in my experience redworms will flourish in most beddings, just treat it like they are in the wild. Give them a bunch of vegetative detritus and that's all you need.


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## Dr.D81 (Apr 28, 2016)

What's up fellow worm farmers I took this yesterday while checking the bins


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (Apr 29, 2016)

Aha! Found where it was I read about coir bedding. 
http://www.wormladies.com/pages/aboutourworms.html 
At the bottom there is a tutorial on a diy double bin. The site says "plantation soil" but it is coir. Same one you can buy at petstores, which is where I get mine. I chewed a piece for a second to see if it was salty, wasn't and all I got was a piece stuck in my teeth.

I guess I am overthinking, still am, with everything, always. 

Also, I just harvested a fire lobsters molt from the bottom of my fishtank, rinsed and soaked in fresh water, crushed it up in a bag with my foot and added it to the freezer bucket'o scraps. Bucket getting full and worms don't ship out till Monday, expected Tuesday, latest Wednesday.


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## Mohican (Apr 29, 2016)

Soak it in some vinegar!


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## MustangStudFarm (Apr 30, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I
> 
> I'm still on perlite lol. I can tell you to avoid chicken manure! I burned some poor babies up lol.


I came across an article that showed a guy that put a worm bin under his chicken roost. I thought that it was clever and I was going to follow his example. It just didnt cross my mind that the chicken manure would be too hot or something. I thought that it would be great to keep the coop clean and disease free, plus give me some castings. Anyways, I would like to hear some thoughts on it! 







http://permaculturenews.org/2013/03/20/worm-bin-and-chicken-poop-compost-catch/


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 30, 2016)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I came across an article that showed a guy that put a worm bin under his chicken roost. I thought that it was clever and I was going to follow his example. It just didnt cross my mind that the chicken manure would be too hot or something. I thought that it would be great to keep the coop clean and disease free, plus give me some castings. Anyways, I would like to hear some thoughts on it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To be honest I don't know a whole lot about chicken manure, it's a cheap ingredient so I usually avoid it but I was experimenting and figured what the hell. Plus the manure I used was supposed to be composted, so it shouldn't have gotten hot. Maybe I just had too much? Your coop set up might be ok? If the worms try to crawl out then you will know.

They do love rabbit manure, and that doesn't get hot. So if you're boy has a rabbit Hutch, I'd throw the bin under that. I throw the bedding and everything from my friends rabbits pen in my bin. I'm still in my first month though man, they're still chomping, I don't have results yet.


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (Apr 30, 2016)

MustangStudFarm said:


> It just didnt cross my mind that the chicken manure would be too hot or something. I thought that it would be great to keep the coop clean and disease free, plus give me some castings. Anyways, I would like to hear some thoughts on it!


 http://www.redwormcomposting.com/reader-questions/vermicomposting-with-chicken-manure/

"The key will be to soak it down, mix it with C-rich materials, and let it age for quite awhile. You sound like you are on the right track, but you might think about adding some water to help drain off excess salts." 

"shouldn’t add worms as long as there is a strong odor of ammonia. It should almost get to the point of having an ‘earthy’ smell. Your best bet is to test it out on a small scale before adding the worms. "

Hope this link helps a bit. I got a bunch bookmarked and saved searches lol.


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## MustangStudFarm (Apr 30, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> To be honest I don't know a whole lot about chicken manure, it's a cheap ingredient so I usually avoid it but I was experimenting and figured what the hell. Plus the manure I used was supposed to be composted, so it shouldn't have gotten hot. Maybe I just had too much? Your coop set up might be ok? If the worms try to crawl out then you will know.
> 
> They do love rabbit manure, and that doesn't get hot. So if you're boy has a rabbit Hutch, I'd throw the bin under that. I throw the bedding and everything from my friends rabbits pen in my bin. I'm still in my first month though man, they're still chomping, I don't have results yet.


I guess that I never updated my worm bin on here, I started a thread about it instead. I found a 70yr old guy that has 160 rabbits and he really cannot clean up after them anymore. So, he listed free rabbit manure on craigslist. I paid one of my in-laws to pick up a truck load for me and he said that we could fill a 16ft trailer 3-4 times. We would be doing the guy and his rabbits a favor if I do go and clean up.

   

The previous owners of my house built a deer stand to practice with his bow. I didnt have a need for it, so I turned it into the coop that I have been talking about. I only put a couple of hours into it so far. My chickens are free-ranging and they mostly need protection from owls and hawks, which are protected by law and heavy in population in my area.

  

I could just build a worm box under the perches... I am still not done building the coop, just at a creative loss at the moment. I am thinking about doing the nest boxes higher off of the ground because of snakes mostly. We have copper-heads and 2 types of diamond back rattlers here. Might have to bring my .22 with me to check eggs lol.


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## MustangStudFarm (Apr 30, 2016)

RuRu.The.Half.Elf said:


> http://www.redwormcomposting.com/reader-questions/vermicomposting-with-chicken-manure/
> 
> "The key will be to soak it down, mix it with C-rich materials, and let it age for quite awhile. You sound like you are on the right track, but you might think about adding some water to help drain off excess salts."
> 
> ...


I have a healthy population of reds in my yard. The worms in my compost look healthier than my indoor worm bin. I was at a loss about the bedding. I know leaf compost would probably be best, but I dont have enough ready. Coco coir is not really that expensive. I will read that link for sure!


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 30, 2016)

It's been a little over a week since I set up my multilevel rabbit manure fed worm bin. So I gave my little drainage nozzle a twist and out came about 1/4 cup of compost leachate! Now I've heard that it can go anaerobic so I figured I should use it right away. Granted 1/4 cup isn't much, so I diluted it with a gallon of water and foliar fed it to my veg plants and three of my flower plants that I just moved into the flower room (nowhere near bud development).


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## Tyleb173rd (May 1, 2016)

Cool stuff in this thread.


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## DonBrennon (May 1, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> It's been a little over a week since I set up my multilevel rabbit manure fed worm bin. So I gave my little drainage nozzle a twist and out came about 1/4 cup of compost leachate! Now I've heard that it can go anaerobic so I figured I should use it right away. Granted 1/4 cup isn't much, so I diluted it with a gallon of water and foliar fed it to my veg plants and three of my flower plants that I just moved into the flower room (nowhere near bud development).


You got an pictures and plans for that?...........I think rabbits are my next project


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## Rasta Roy (May 1, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> You got an pictures and plans for that?...........I think rabbits are my next project


 
Here's the top level bin. You can see the hay from the rabbit's litter box, along with some little rabbit nuggets and some old soil thrown in. Buried underneath are my kitchen scraps. My wife and I juice and eat a good portion of veggies and I save all of waste in bags in the freezer before I throw them in the bin. This has caused the bins to be pretty moist though (probably the reason for the leachate, which my plants did like!). I threw in some cardboard and am gonna pick up some more rabbit litter from my boy tomorrow so that'll help dry it up.
 

And then here's the bottom level bin. You can see they've already got some castings cooking. Can't wait for em to finish up this bin! These are for my personal garden but I'm gonna set up a much larger homemade bin to accommodate some larger scale gardens soon as the goddamn rain would stop. It's been three days straight now.


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## cindysid (May 2, 2016)

Ok worm people....I have a question. I started a worm bin with totes about 6 weeks ago, and I've been adding kitchen veggie scraps, eggshells, cannabis leaves and the like. They seem to be doing fine. My neighbor has rabbits, so I asked her if she would save some of their poop for my worms. A couple of days ago, she brought me about 15 lbs of rabbit "litter". It has poop, but also pellets, hay, and even a little grain in it. I think the hay is alfalfa, and it seemed like a pretty "hot" mix to add to my bin. I put just a little, maybe a cupful into one corner. It seems to have warmed things up in there, and I'm a little concerned. Also, the bag of "litter", got a little damp and when I stuck my hand in just now, (ew gross), it seemed really hot. I don't want to burn my worms. What should I do with this stuff? Does it just need to sit and break down a little more?


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## Joe Blows Trees (May 2, 2016)

You can let it sit in the sun a few days and dry out more. Should be good for the worms then. When I added mine, it was dry. I was given only the poop though, but the bedding and stuff you have is fine too @cindysid


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## Rasta Roy (May 2, 2016)

cindysid said:


> Ok worm people....I have a question. I started a worm bin with totes about 6 weeks ago, and I've been adding kitchen veggie scraps, eggshells, cannabis leaves and the like. They seem to be doing fine. My neighbor has rabbits, so I asked her if she would save some of their poop for my worms. A couple of days ago, she brought me about 15 lbs of rabbit "litter". It has poop, but also pellets, hay, and even a little grain in it. I think the hay is alfalfa, and it seemed like a pretty "hot" mix to add to my bin. I put just a little, maybe a cupful into one corner. It seems to have warmed things up in there, and I'm a little concerned. Also, the bag of "litter", got a little damp and when I stuck my hand in just now, (ew gross), it seemed really hot. I don't want to burn my worms. What should I do with this stuff? Does it just need to sit and break down a little more?


The rabbit's manure won't make your bin hot but the alfalfa hay could if it's still green. Just let it sit out in the sun until it turns yellow or brown and you'll be good. I do rabbit litter in my bin along with my kitchen scraps and I have no trouble.


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## cindysid (May 2, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> The rabbit's manure won't make your bin hot but the alfalfa hay could if it's still green. Just let it sit out in the sun until it turns yellow or brown and you'll be good. I do rabbit litter in my bin along with my kitchen scraps and I have no trouble.


Thanks Rasta & Joe! I just didn't want to murder them off now that they seem to be doing so well. The litter is still in the bag so I will spread it out on something and let it get some sun.


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (May 3, 2016)

One more day till worms come home..
I bought a bunch of bananas this weekend and somehow 5 of them split open and started going mushy. I hope they like bananas.


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## Joe Blows Trees (May 3, 2016)

Freeze the bananas until you're ready to feed the worms. Thaw them out and squish it, they'll really appreciate it.


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## Rasta Roy (May 4, 2016)

I've got more food in my freezer for my worms than for myself lol.


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## Mohican (May 4, 2016)

@MustangStudFarm - nice score on the rabbit manure! How are the worms liking it?


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## MustangStudFarm (May 4, 2016)

Mohican said:


> @MustangStudFarm - nice score on the rabbit manure! How are the worms liking it?


I have 4 bins and the 1st one is coco coir and recycled soil, I started worms in 2x 30gal totes and dumped them in the first bin. The other 3 are rabbit manure. The #2 bin got chopped leaves and rabbit manure, the last 2 are just pure manure... It has been about a month and I do not see any side migration, but the 1st bin should still be full of food. I see healthy worms but they really have not populated yet!

I know that the rabbits were inside of a warehouse type setting, so the manure never got rain or sun. I imagine that the urine is keeping them away for now. I have been getting rain and I have not exactly covered it with a tarp or anything. I thought that some of the urine would wash out and provide a better environment??? Thoughts would be appreciated! 

#1
 

#2
 

#3&4


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## MustangStudFarm (May 4, 2016)

RuRu.The.Half.Elf said:


> One more day till worms come home..
> I bought a bunch of bananas this weekend and somehow 5 of them split open and started going mushy. I hope they like bananas.


I use lots of banana peels! They compost quick


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## Mohican (May 4, 2016)

I have heard rabbit poop is the best for worms and plants. Have you put any directly on any plants?


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## Rasta Roy (May 4, 2016)

Mohican said:


> I have heard rabbit poop is the best for worms and plants. Have you put any directly on any plants?


I haven't. My plants are all pretty fertilized up. I'm debating mixing up a batch of soil with some for my next round.


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (May 4, 2016)

It begins. 

So I put the week long hydrated coir in first. Placed a 1/2 cup of white sand/grey dirt which is old aquarium cleanout that has been sitting on the side of my walkway for months. Had some green algae growing on it.  Figure a 1/4 cup thawed scraps, mixed it in. Dump the worms ontop and blast a 42w cfl on them.


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (May 4, 2016)

MustangStudFarm said:


> #2
> View attachment 3673356


Does number 2 smell as good as it looks? Hence why you labeled it number 2?..


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## MustangStudFarm (May 4, 2016)

Mohican said:


> I have heard rabbit poop is the best for worms and plants. Have you put any directly on any plants?


I had a plant that was fading too fast, probably a N def, and it really brought it back quick with a top-dressing. I think that the manure had a decent amount of urine also which would be the quick release N. I mixed rabbit manure and EWC for the top-dressing. There were worms that were living happily in the top layer of the pot also... It was more of an experiment, but it did work well. I will probably use more very soon.


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## MustangStudFarm (May 4, 2016)

RuRu.The.Half.Elf said:


> Does number 2 smell as good as it looks? Hence why you labeled it number 2?..


Yeah, #2 has a nice earthy smell. The other bins do not really have a smell? I think that it has been aged well before I got it.


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (May 5, 2016)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Yeah, #2 has a nice earthy smell. The other bins do not really have a smell? I think that it has been aged well before I got it.


Haha, I was referring that it looks like it would stink. Wonder what would happen if you turn a little compost starter in it.


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## Rasta Roy (May 5, 2016)

A question for my friends that compost and vermicompost! 

I produce too many scraps for my worm bin to handle so I set up a couple rotating compost bins as well. Now I watched this YouTube video a while ago






They feed their compost to their worms to turn it into vermicompost. 

Anybody else out there do this? Is the compost on its own really enough food for the worms?


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (May 8, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Anybody else out there do this? Is the compost on its own really enough food for the worms?


I just got off the phone with my mother (happy mother day!) And asked her about the big ol' compost pile she had in the backyard in my youth. She said the wild earthworms would migrate to it when the pile stopped cooking and they would be in every lump that got turned when more clippings got added.

Also, apparently worm farming is in my blood since my grandparents/great uncles did it for fishing bait in Wisconsin.

Well it's been 3 days since I started my bin and I decided to check on the action. I see no worms? Or bugs? Smells good inside though, like a fruit dressed earthy salad.. Put some shredded paper and egg carton cardboard on top and misted till damp since it should be dry out for the next week. I did find one rouge in the bottom leachate bin. Went to pull it out and stttrrreeeeetttccchhh, fast lil' guy.

I take it since it's in the sixties out, they're probably in the bedding. Don't really wanna disturb them. I guess wait till some food starts vanashing and then start feeding again.

A little off topic.. Or maybe not?
So.. I was unpacking old grow gear and I decided to replace the carbon from my filter. I wonder if a few small scoops would be OK for the bin. I read it raises the ph of soil. If not maybe when I have some lechate (if acidic pH) , soak the carbon and use it as top dressing? If leachate if alkaline, maybe for a ferment fertilizer to balance the pH and use that as dressing? Rather not just toss it if it has a use.


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (May 8, 2016)

Finally got around to uploading images, printscreen/paste mspaint (remove image info).
My dinky 10g. 
Bottom and 3/4" pvc Stand 1/4 hole inside (for later worm travel), 3/16 outer
Sides 
Stacked into catch-bin


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## calliandra (May 8, 2016)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I came across an article that showed a guy that put a worm bin under his chicken roost. I thought that it was clever and I was going to follow his example. It just didnt cross my mind that the chicken manure would be too hot or something. I thought that it would be great to keep the coop clean and disease free, plus give me some castings. Anyways, I would like to hear some thoughts on it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Being a permie myself I see the idea here is to save work and use resources where they drop.  
To exploit the full work-saving potential however, the coop should also be close to other ingredient sources, especially those being added continuously (think food scraps - which may be brought out when one goes to collect eggs - a daily task, so best not too far from the house). So there is a perfect place in each system for each component where - and how - it works the most efficiently in- and outputwise.
Conversely, the placement, which is predetermined in your case since you are making use of the structure that is already there, may also determine what goes into that worm bin. But thats OK too, as long as your ingredients are balanced from a C:N perspective  
Just things to think about when creating your new system - and they also may just evolve over time too as you finetune 

As to the chicken poop being hot, I'd say it's a matter of the dosis making the poison. It's a difference whether you add chicken poop bucketwise to a pile or box, or the chickens drop small portions of poop at a time into the system. (The same goes for all those "no-no's" such as citrus and onion peels and all that!).
So you'll be fine as long as you have hi-carbon woody materials in there too!

What I get thinking about when I see the pix of your coop-in-progress is how you will extract the finished compost? Getting crazy images in my head of roll-out containers that can be pulled out from under the coop for that


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## calliandra (May 8, 2016)

RuRu.The.Half.Elf said:


> maybe when I have some lechate (if acidic pH) , soak the carbon and use it as top dressing? If leachate if alkaline, maybe for a ferment fertilizer to balance the pH and use that as dressing? Rather not just toss it if it has a use.


Personally, I have gotten a bit offish regarding passive leachate.
Yes I know all sorts of people (including some I'd think would know better) use the runoff from the wormbin (or even compost pile) as fertilizer, and it does work since there are humic & fulvic acids and some other good stuff in there.
However, since this runoff is created during the decomposition process (maybe leaning to the anaerobic - which is the case if your leachate is in any way smelly), it may also contain pathogens.

For this reason, I try to manage my wormbin such that I don't even get that runoff, and if I do, I dilute and feed it to non-edibles in the garden 

That said, the carbon is great aeration material and yes you could charge it with (fresh! sterile!) urine


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## Mohican (May 9, 2016)

Bubble your leachate in water for 3 days with some molasses and you will get the amazing results you expected.


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## Rasta Roy (May 9, 2016)

Mohican said:


> Bubble your leachate in water for 3 days with some molasses and you will get the amazing results you expected.


Do you dilute the leachate when you bubble it? After? Does that kill off the pathogens?


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## Mohican (May 9, 2016)

Yes, dilute, and the O2 and molasses promote aerobic life which will displace the bads. As for pathogens, let your soil microbes take care of those. Just don't use it as a foliar unless you pasteurize/boil it.


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## Rasta Roy (May 9, 2016)

Mohican said:


> Yes, dilute, and the O2 and molasses promote aerobic life which will displace the bads. As for pathogens, let your soil microbes take care of those. Just don't use it as a foliar unless you pasteurize/boil it.


Word! I'm new to the whole leachate thing, thanks for the tips!


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (May 9, 2016)

calliandra said:


> That said, the carbon is great aeration material and yes you could charge it with (fresh! sterile!) urine


I'm a little "blah" feeling about using my piss. I did read a while ago today that I could compost my fishtank's carbon. I think I could reuse it in the tank and the tanks old carbon for soil mixing.

Sounds like a win situation to me.


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## Rasta Roy (May 9, 2016)

A little off topic but close...

So I collected too much rabbit manure and my freezer is full of food scraps for my worm bin, and I have a lot more coming...so I bought a tumbling composter. My apologies to the diy crowd, I've got a pretty jammed schedule so I didn't have the time to make one. I picked one up at Menards for 60 bucks. Not too bad for saving me the time.

It holds up to 45 gallons and is supposed to turn it's contents into compost in a few weeks.

It's not like you have to layer it, it's a tumbler...lol...but for the sake of some photos...

Lots of cardboard, I amass so much cardboard just by existing. The boxes the cans of soft food for my dogs and cats comes in, cereal boxes, eBay bullshit, etc.


A five gallon bucket filled with straight rabbit manure, some produce scraps from the freezer

About four gallons of rabbit manure mixed with litter (Alfalfa hay/cardboard scraps)


I moved into my new house in the winter so I didn't get to rake up leaves until the spring. The lady that lived here before used to grow as well but with synthetics so she had dirt dumped all over the yard. So I got two enormous yard bags filled beyond the brim with leaves and old dirt.


A bag full of recently pruned off cannabis leaves...cause they gotta go somewhere.


Sooooo muchhh rabbit manure!


A bunch of produce I'd been saving in my freezer. Some pulp from my juicer, just some stuff that went bad. Not much citrus but a little. I wouldn't dare put it in my worm bin and fuck up their pH, but they say a little bit at a time in your compost pile (or in this case tumbler) is cool.


More of the leaves, old dirt mixture...


I buy a lot of amendments in bulk when they're on sale, or just to fuck with sometimes because I'm a neoliberal and believe the world's problems can be solved with consumerism (this is a joke I'm totally kidding lol). So I threw a handful of everything in
Neem Seed Meal, alfalfa meal, Crab Shell meal, Oyster Shell Flour, Bat Guano, greensand, a tiny bit of fish bone meal from the bottom of an empty down to earth box, and a handful of worm castings (the tumbler instructions say to add a handful of compost to get the other stuff composting...so whatever. Pretty sure I got enough stuff in there to get this bitch hot but I'll play along just to be safe.

And so muchhhh more cardboard.

Then I tumbled that bitch like crazy after I sealed it up. It says to tumble it every other day and I'll have compost in three weeks. Between this and my multilevel worm bin, I should have enough compost and castings to fertilize my personal garden and the other gardens I work in. I'm gonna publish a thread soon devoted to simple cheap growing, documenting a seven light pole barn room I take care of. Look out for that soon!


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## Rasta Roy (May 23, 2016)

I'm getting so damn impatient waiting to harvest my castings! The bottom trays are so close to being done I almost started harvesting them earlier. All the food scraps and rabbit manure have disappeared and been replaced with rich looking black castings. There's perlite mixed in there (it was in the dirt I put it in the trays), and some of the alfalfa hay is in there still. I was willing to settle for the hay still being there and harvest anyway but I found a little bit of cardboard (pretty thin and close to broken down) amongst the castings so I'm letting them go for longer.

When do your guys and gals castings look like when you harvest? Do you wait til they're completely black? Anyone have experience with Alfalfa hay in their bin and if you wait for it to break down fully or not?

This is my first traditional worm bin, my other ones were force fed into a certain time constraint and it was easy to tell. This is very different but much cooler and I feel like the results are gonna be very cool.

I'm super interested to see what the heavy rabbit manure feed base does for the worm castings nutrient value. The worms are thriving and wriggling around like crazy in the bottom trays by the way!

I've also set up a second tumbling compost bin with a heavy rabbit manure base and then all the scraps of this tore up wood stump outside my godparents house. I also added all the amendments I would normally add to my soil (Alfalfa Meal, Crab Shell meal, Oyster Shell Flour, fish bone meal, greensand, rock dust). I'm leaving out the kelp because it's the most expensive of the amendments and it seems like it's qualities would be best utilized fresh. And I threw in a handful of the almost done castings and some worms from my bin. 

My hope is I can make this killer compost with rabbit manure and my favorite amendments, and then make worm castings out of my food scraps and more rabbit manure. Then I want to make my soil mixes with peat moss, compost, perlite, worm castings, kelp, I'd like to try some red sedge peat aka black, like only 5% of the mix. I've heard it can make a solid replacement for forest humus, and just enough lime to make the pH kosher with the peat. 

And then if my plants start to look hungry I'll just top dress with more castings. Cannot wait to use all this stuff!


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## Dr.D81 (May 23, 2016)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I came across an article that showed a guy that put a worm bin under his chicken roost. I thought that it was clever and I was going to follow his example. It just didnt cross my mind that the chicken manure would be too hot or something. I thought that it would be great to keep the coop clean and disease free, plus give me some castings. Anyways, I would like to hear some thoughts on it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have had worm beds under my rabbit pins and open bottoms. They love rabbit poo!


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## Rasta Roy (May 23, 2016)

Dr.D81 said:


> I have had worm beds under my rabbit pins and open bottoms. They love rabbit poo!


Did you ever feed the worms anything besides rabbit manure or can they thrive on the manure alone? Also what did you do for worm bedding? My rabbit manure is coming from a litter box so it's got Alfalfa hay mixed in. I mix that in with my old dirt and that's my bedding. I've got some tore up cardboard in some of the trays but not all.


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## Dr.D81 (May 24, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Did you ever feed the worms anything besides rabbit manure or can they thrive on the manure alone? Also what did you do for worm bedding? My rabbit manure is coming from a litter box so it's got Alfalfa hay mixed in. I mix that in with my old dirt and that's my bedding. I've got some tore up cardboard in some of the trays but not all.


Well i will put it this way. In parts of this country old times call red worms" manure worms" I have seen cast iron tubs under the pins and they will rase in there like mad! That is also all the piss too. I have seen them inside a sceptic tank liveing


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (Jun 2, 2016)

An update. I had white fuzz starting upon anywhere a banana used to lay. I take it that is a good thing.

I also have fat slow white mites (see blurry arrow image), so I did the potato, removed after 30 mins into the yard, did it again and again, no end to these lil' things. Still doing it actually. The wild rabbits have it lucky being there is about 6 whole taters out there. Ignore the large chunks of egg shell, my roommate tossed some in. 

Also, the fruit flies, wow! Maybe I can harvest them and sell them to dart frog owners? I am sure the 90%ish feed of fruit has something to do with it. 

I had an infestation of Pissant (Ghost Ant) raiding my bin and I had to moat the bin, it's clear so I can keep an eagle eye on the water level.

Also, I noticed my worm population dwindled to near non-existent. I know Ghost ants go for beetle larva, but do they eat worms? I can not find any documentation on it.


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (Jun 12, 2016)

Another update and some exploration towards another composting idea...

I am not a germophobe, but I do have a mild arachnophobia, but only if it involves small brown spiders. I'll play with a large huntsman, orb weavers, crabs, jumping, etc. Those spiders I don't mind, minus the rare encounter inside my shirt (Surprise!). But I'm weary of the dangerous brown recluse, I wear gloves just in case.
 

It seems the worms have started making a comeback. I did not feed from 5/29 - 06/09, when all chunks of matter "dispersed" into granular black matter. The bin appears to be 1/3 of it's original mass, and the coir is hardly distinguishable and few fibers exist. The white mites have died down to a few small spotting that seems to shrink as the days age by.

I lined one side wall with a friend's frozen cut/mini corn cobs he was throwing away. It was loaded with ice crystals from a stashed away lair of last Thanksgiving. Needless to say, they thawed well in the multiple plastic bag containment, sitting in a hot car for hours on it's tour of town and venture home. The wall fit 5 of these damp mushy cobs perfectly. Today I removed some top litter to expose it, to see how far along it has degraded, and to my surprise, a good amount of small white wiggle'n do-hickeys that my camera phone couldn't even focus on. I reapplied the litter on top and feel great that some good is happening.

----

Side note, curiosity, and wonder.
A search of the site and I can not find anything on high carbon (80%+ C - N ratio) composting (wood and fungus), which I guess it understandable since wood compost is better suited for trees and a few perennials from the articles I have read. So... I was wondering if anyone has experience with this? Most google searches involve people wanting it removed from their mulched gardens. Mostly about "Dog Vomit" and spotty white mycelium. Go figure, aesthetics over function. 

I see that the leaf and twig matter in several wooded areas full of thriving fungal activity is shallow, but wide. Maybe a "container" emulating this would be best suitable, tarped of course, moderate aeration holes, for o2/co2 exchange and humidity control. I am thinking of a small dollar store kiddie pool roughly 4ft in diameter, 1ft tall [oddly enough, the only MADE IN USA item I've seen in this store].

I do have several unused, sterile centrifuge tubes from a DIY "Popsicle Cloner" I used to play with. I wonder if I can snag a few chunks of spore bearing fruits and propagate them.

Some pix of my now dead maple, smothered in wild muscadine grapes, my bird habitat. Some woody shelf guys, and a progression of "Witchs' Butter" (I love that name!) underneath.


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (Jun 12, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Then I tumbled that bitch like crazy after I sealed it up. It says to tumble it every other day and I'll have compost in three weeks. Between this and my multilevel worm bin, I should have enough compost and castings to fertilize my personal garden and the other gardens I work in. I'm gonna publish a thread soon devoted to simple cheap growing, documenting a seven light pole barn room I take care of. Look out for that soon!


Nice, I was thinking about a tree litter humus(see my post above), also a yard waste compost tumbler (7gal DIY) similar to what you got going here. Have you opened it recently to see how far along it has come since you've started?
I, myself, am fascinated by the day by day progression visuals of my worm bin. Curious about the bacterial degradation of a compost tumbler.


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## Rasta Roy (Jun 12, 2016)

RuRu.The.Half.Elf said:


> Nice, I was thinking about a tree litter humus(see my post above), also a yard waste compost tumbler (7gal DIY) similar to what you got going here. Have you opened it recently to see how far along it has come since you've started?
> I, myself, am fascinated by the day by day progression visuals of my worm bin. Curious about the bacterial degradation of a compost tumbler.


Yeah but I've also recently added some more materials...I'll snap some pics later when I get home and throw em up. I started a second bin after this one.


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## Rasta Roy (Jun 12, 2016)

Here you go @RuRu.The.Half.Elf

The rabbit manure and other nitrogen inputs I put in didn't get the compost quite as hot as I was hoping. I've been collecting coffee grounds from my wife's work and I added some to heat it up. Boy did it work! You take the lid off this bad boy and you can feel some heat!

All the food waste, yard leaves, and cannabis leaves have broken down into a material resembling compost. A lot of the little rabbit nuggets have broken down as well, but you can still find a couple nuggets. The straw from the litter and the bigger cardboard pieces are taking their damn sweet time tho!


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (Jun 14, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> View attachment 3706657


Looks good. Really quick method compared to the basic pile. I guess it really just matters about the matter. That bit of blue is part of a cereal box?


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## Rasta Roy (Jun 14, 2016)

RuRu.The.Half.Elf said:


> Looks good. Really quick method compared to the basic pile. I guess it really just matters about the matter. That bit of blue is part of a cereal box?


Frosted flakes. Cause they're great.


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## Rasta Roy (Jun 16, 2016)

Harvesting my first batch of homemade worm castings! The straw still is there sort of but everything else is broken down. I'm just gonna screen it out. 

Quick question though! So those bugs that show up when you've got too much food for your worms. I had some of those, but there numbers went down now that my bin has balanced out. However I still see some. Should I mix some diatomaceous earth with the castings before I use them? Or we'll those bugs not mess with my plants?


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## DonBrennon (Jun 17, 2016)

IMO those bugs are either detritivores (eg, eat decaying organic matter) or predators, both beneficial to a living soil food web when you think about it.


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## Rasta Roy (Jun 17, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> IMO those bugs are either detritivores (eg, eat decaying organic matter) or predators, both beneficial to a living soil food web when you think about it.


That's what I was thinking but I just needed to hear some opinions thanks bro


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## DonTesla (Jun 18, 2016)

And DE would be most effective as a 2 inch layer brotha..
_unmixed_ with any organic matter since its the organic matter (soil) that supports evil pupae and larvae..

Cut the soil off you cut their life off!!

Congrats on your first harvest off your own farm G!

Best castings are live fresh ones from home!


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## GreenSanta (Jun 19, 2016)

Guys dont use DE in the grow room are u crazy


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## getogrow (Jun 19, 2016)

dont use de in or on worm bin. the bugs in most castings are a good biological part of your ecosystem. i like DE but its not good for the worms ....you can sprinkle it on your plants or on floor but imo its not great for the soil . 





soil


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## Joe Blows Trees (Jun 19, 2016)

GreenSanta said:


> Guys dont use DE in the grow room are u crazy




No explanation as to why?


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## getogrow (Jun 19, 2016)

drys out the precious soil food web




soil


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## GreenSanta (Jun 19, 2016)

Google it, if u care enough about ur patients lungs
...


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## getogrow (Jun 19, 2016)

Yes , breathing it in is very bad for lungs but so is asbestos. 
DE is heavy enough to not really "fly around" an breathe it in. And of course you don't want to put it on flowers. 
Also it's not going to make it to your patients lungs. smoking it , is not the same as inhaling the actual dust. (of course i would never recommend putting it on flowers in the first place to be smoked.)

Also DE is good for you, so if its going into an edible , it's fine. 




soil


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## Rasta Roy (Jun 19, 2016)

Thanks for the advice boys!

If it were December instead of June you could probably see it in a photo but goddamn is my compost bin steaming! It's not remotely in the sun, all the heat is coming from decomp and boy is it hot!


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## DonBrennon (Jun 19, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Thanks for the advice boys!
> 
> If it were December instead of June you could probably see it in a photo but goddamn is my compost bin steaming! It's not remotely in the sun, all the heat is coming from decomp and boy is it hot!
> 
> View attachment 3711958


Cooking nicely, my compost pile's gone cold cos my backs gone, I need to add some nitrogen and turn it, but I can't push the bloody lawnmower, never mind face turning 1m3 of compost


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## Joe Blows Trees (Jun 19, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> Cooking nicely, my compost pile's gone cold cos my backs gone, I need to add some nitrogen and turn it, but I can't push the bloody lawnmower, never mind face turning 1m3 of compost


Hope you recuperate soon.


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## Rasta Roy (Jun 19, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> Cooking nicely, my compost pile's gone cold cos my backs gone, I need to add some nitrogen and turn it, but I can't push the bloody lawnmower, never mind face turning 1m3 of compost


That sucks bro! I got these turning bins because I wasn't sure my back could take turning a pile all the time.


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## GreenSanta (Jun 19, 2016)

getogrow said:


> Yes , breathing it in is very bad for lungs but so is asbestos.
> DE is heavy enough to not really "fly around" an breathe it in. And of course you don't want to put it on flowers.
> Also it's not going to make it to your patients lungs. smoking it , is not the same as inhaling the actual dust. (of course i would never recommend putting it on flowers in the first place to be smoked.)
> 
> ...


Yes I see u have no fucking clue what you are talking about. I am just trying to help the community...if u have ever worked with DE you would know it s fucking volatile.


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (Jun 20, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> Cooking nicely, my compost pile's gone cold cos my backs gone, I need to add some nitrogen and turn it, but I can't push the bloody lawnmower, never mind face turning 1m3 of compost


I see a https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00FREQBXE/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1466425831&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=leaf+mulcher+vacuum&dpPl=1&dpID=41gAhOcAJDL&ref=plSrch on your immediate Christmas list.
Edit: And a john deer rider too


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## bmgnoot (Jul 7, 2016)

question for you guys. bit of a mishap..had my worm bin outside with a cover on it, and a tarp over it..rain still got in and flooded the bin overnight. just went out to put some food garbage in this morning to find it in a deluge of water. it has only been maybe a day and a half since the rain started but it still smells god awful. the drainage holes in the bottom arent really working so i just scooped as much excess water as i could into a bucket. hoping to let it air dry, add more bedding to absorb some moisture and bounce back.. but the question is can i use the drained water as a beneficial "tea" in any way? maybe dilute and put in my tea brewer to aerate for 24+ hours? trying to turn shit lemons into shitmonade


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## Chronikool (Jul 7, 2016)

bmgnoot said:


> question for you guys. bit of a mishap..had my worm bin outside with a cover on it, and a tarp over it..rain still got in and flooded the bin overnight. just went out to put some food garbage in this morning to find it in a deluge of water. it has only been maybe a day and a half since the rain started but it still smells god awful. the drainage holes in the bottom arent really working so i just scooped as much excess water as i could into a bucket. hoping to let it air dry, add more bedding to absorb some moisture and bounce back.. but the question is can i use the drained water as a beneficial "tea" in any way? maybe dilute and put in my tea brewer to aerate for 24+ hours? trying to turn shit lemons into shitmonade


No need to dilute....you could aerate it...(maybe with some molasses) id just use it straight on my plants though...


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## RuRu.The.Half.Elf (Jul 10, 2016)

My bin had a large die-off this week.  102*F peak with 98*f for the length of the days. I forgot to dampen and give them full cover.



I've added another 8L brick of coir to the bin, along with some whole frozen chunks of foods, zucchini, tomato, apple. I think this might be over doing it, but I also added, stoned minded, a pre-mix of..
2c Gaia Glacial Rock Dust
1c Fish Bone, Fish, Crabshell,Kelp, Alfalfa, Ahimsa Neem (meals) Oystershell Flour, Gypsum
1/2c (unknown) Bat Guano, Azomite
I bought it a few months ago and lately decided a different amendment approach. Figured spread it in the yard.. or worms. So I put it in the bin.



The bin wasn't working so I bought a baby pool. Mixing was much easier.



I noticed maybe 20% of the 1lb of worms I bought a while back. Found more fried worms too. But luck have it, some small sized ones (juveniles?) alive and some adults too. The lechate bin had lechate in it, but turned to a crumbly film.

Hope I didn't mess up on throwing the amendment mix in there.

---Other
Because I was in a mixing mood, I also mixed 2lbs each of Micromite, Azomite, Glacial Rock Dust and 1lb of Green Sand. It turned a few bag in boxes into one simple bucket with lid. Can't hurt, right?

I also played with some plastics, powerdrill, pipecutters and pvc. That's some P's. Best part is most of it for me was free.

Proto'ing Tumble Composter



7.5gal pool tablet bucket I thoroughly cleaned and let age for weeks with water till it turned green and washed again. I bought the 2in - 3/4 adapter, 2in 4way, 2in insert screen and the rest is misc 3/4 pvc I had laying around (different style caps/plugs, elbows)

Proto'ing 1gal Silo Brewer



All I had to buy was a 3/4in hose fitting.. 4-in pvc holds .65gal water a ft, and my length is 2.33ft (2ft 4in). Easily covers my desired 1 gallon. That goes to a coupler, 4in - 1.5 in adapter, 1.5 - 3/4in adapter. Thinking I might want to make a bucket device on top for possible foam overs. Maybe no middle man (the riser t and air pump connect) and move the air pump piece to the hose bib itself since it matches threads..

Also.. _Return of the Slime Mold_..




Where it was to where it now is.


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## GreenSanta (Jul 10, 2016)

just harvested around 50-100 lbs of straight worms in a friend horse manure pile, just saying...


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## Rasta Roy (Sep 23, 2016)

This thread was in desire need of a bump! 

This is an interesting video, the guy lays out castings where the bedding compromised of leaves vs shredded paper. Wow what a goddamn difference! Definitely important to consider, especially those of us trying to build up our soils fungal and bacteria population.


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## Moe Flo (Sep 23, 2016)

I still don't get the bedding thing. In nature there's no pre arranged bedding so I just dump them in. Anyhoo I was wondering are there any specific bacteria/fungi that prefer marine organics ? I live by the ocean so wanted to collect matter by the bucket full. No seaweed from what I saw just fish caught in low tide.


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## DonTesla (Sep 23, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> This thread was in desire need of a bump!
> 
> This is an interesting video, the guy lays out castings where the bedding compromised of leaves vs shredded paper. Wow what a goddamn difference! Definitely important to consider, especially those of us trying to build up our soils fungal and bacteria population.


Fook plastic and fook bleach!!

Gotsta Keep it Rasta..


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## Tyleb173rd (Sep 23, 2016)

I just started a bin last week. It's a four layer stackable unit from Uncle Jim. How often do you guys feed them?


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## Magic M (Sep 23, 2016)

my two worm bins each is 2x4x2, flow through. loving these guys!


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## DonTesla (Sep 23, 2016)

Tyleb173rd said:


> I just started a bin last week. It's a four layer stackable unit from Uncle Jim. How often do you guys feed them?


Nicely done, how much was that, about $100?
I always kinda wondered where the Rev got his spigot and square bins

we feed, say
Once a week or so, dude, or whenever my 4 L/ 1 gallon tub fills up in the freezer, which is probably 3-6 times per month depending how fresh we eat

That's 2 ppl eating fruits and veggies

I guess the rabbit feeds them daily tho lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 23, 2016)

Pete Moss is all I use for worm bedding... there is a vermicomposting master that I learned from that says shredded paper newspaper in particular is a big no no due to the clay content when it breaks down...I also split my worm farms every year since I got them ... wondering if others do this.. I feed them all my veggie scraps and coffee grounds... I see nothing but good things they love it and have been multiplying and making lots of casting and effluent! Love this thread btw!


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## Rasta Roy (Sep 23, 2016)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Pete Moss is all I use for worm bedding... there is a vermicomposting master that I learned from that says shredded paper newspaper in particular is a big no no due to the clay content when it breaks down...I also split my worm farms every year since I got them ... wondering if others do this.. I feed them all my veggie scraps and coffee grounds... I see nothing but good things they love it and have been multiplying and making lots of casting and effluent! Love this thread btw!


I've heard from others that peat moss has to be replaced every two weeks when I used as bedding because it gets too acidic. Have you had any issues?


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 23, 2016)

My are also sooo simple Rubbermaid with a one inch hole drilled in the long side, in the center, near the bottom... piece of synthetic rope through there and wrapping in the bin to drain effluent off without the worms eating it (hence why synthetic) that's it set it up on blocks rope in the jar done....they work amazingly! Also why people hating on DE on this thread... you literally CAN eat it and a lot of folks do...


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 23, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I've heard from others that peat moss has to be replaced every two weeks when I used as bedding because it gets too acidic. Have you had any issues?


Never once had problems... the worms just eat that too and it all turns to castings eventually... I guess maybe I'm doing it slowly but seems to work great ... cover with some leaves and then landscaping plastic to keep it extra dark. Then cover and go... I have crazy amounts of worms always healthy can get some pics when lights on


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## Rasta Roy (Sep 23, 2016)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Never once had problems... the worms just eat that too and it all turns to castings eventually... I guess maybe I'm doing it slowly but seems to work great ... cover with some leaves and then landscaping plastic to keep it extra dark. Then cover and go... I have crazy amounts of worms always healthy can get some pics when lights on


Just wondered if you added anything to raise the pH. Lately I've just been grabbing scooping unfinished leaves from my compost pile (from the cooled down part of the pile), the worms seem to like it the most. I was just dumping them straight into a bedding of rabbit manure and timothy hay and cardboard (all soaked in piss since it's from a rabbit litter box so I leave it out in the rain to wash out salts first). They were still always trying to escape though...I'd have to keep a light on em. They don't pull that shit no more though. I mix the rabbit manure and litter along with food scraps and coffee grounds into the leaves little by little every week. They seem to love it.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 23, 2016)

I top the pete moss with leaves but nothing else for ph at all... I give them lots of veggie and plant scraps. Bury that shit down under the pete moss they go down and stay down to eat nom nom nom!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 23, 2016)

I want to get some rabbits!


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## DonTesla (Sep 23, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Just wondered if you added anything to raise the pH. .


If you use less berries, apples, etc, and more veggies and greens, even watermelon (altho sweet) has gots an alkaline ash.

Coco fibre and egg shell powder also buffer, plus you can water with spring water, many have a pH over 8 and include a natural mineral profile ideal for both plants and humans, as our DNA are very similar apparently


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## Rasta Roy (Sep 24, 2016)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I want to get some rabbits!


Just find a buddy with some. I get a five gallon bucket and a half of rabbit shit every month from two rabbits.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 24, 2016)

I do give them eggshells sometimes but I have found they take so freaking long to break down... I try to grind them as small as possible and use them as grit for the worms when out of dry sand.. (winter mostly) I use tons of veggies and have NEVER watered my worms they get enough moisture from the veggies I give them...worms aren't too picky really lol love this thread though and love seeing others worm farming!


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## DonTesla (Sep 24, 2016)

Yea no need to water if its moist.
Kinda depends if you cover or not
.. I keep four worm bins breathing with no covers or tops, and my rabbit pees in my one bin, only. I use that one for compost.

But watering can be used as a tool if someone needs to raise ph or wash salts, especially for those who bunny-worm-farm.

Eggshells do take a long time but there's nothing wrong with that, in fact, that's what I like about them.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Sep 24, 2016)

Bunny worm farm.. interesting... and yeah the slow release from the egg shells can be good... I just got annoyed with them because when I bought my first worm farm.. (5 bucks at a garage sale and FULL of worms and castings!) They had not crushed the egg shells before throwing them in and it seemed like I had more she'll than castings lol I still use them just ground ubber fine


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## turnip brain (Sep 24, 2016)

I have a bin going great guns, but seems it's become a bit funky, with LOTS of mites. I've read this can be from acidic conditions. I've been adding a wide range of fruit and veg scrap along with eggshells and forest humus (aspen grove area). 

Any thought show to bring it to better balance without having to outsource other inputs? I really don't want to have to buy stuff to feed them.


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## Javadog (Sep 24, 2016)

I am thinking of compost in general, but it is typically "brown" vs. "green"
where you need to add more brown, high C, materials for balance, but I do
not know whether this fits the pH issue.


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## Rasta Roy (Sep 25, 2016)

turnip brain said:


> I have a bin going great guns, but seems it's become a bit funky, with LOTS of mites. I've read this can be from acidic conditions. I've been adding a wide range of fruit and veg scrap along with eggshells and forest humus (aspen grove area).
> 
> Any thought show to bring it to better balance without having to outsource other inputs? I really don't want to have to buy stuff to feed them.


If you got mites you might have too much food in the bin. Don't add anything for a couple weeks and they should clear up for the most part.

And if its funky...yea I'm thinking too much food.


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## Rasta Roy (Sep 25, 2016)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Bunny worm farm.. interesting... and yeah the slow release from the egg shells can be good... I just got annoyed with them because when I bought my first worm farm.. (5 bucks at a garage sale and FULL of worms and castings!) They had not crushed the egg shells before throwing them in and it seemed like I had more she'll than castings lol I still use them just ground ubber fine


If you don't want the egg shells in your bin than save them for making Calcium Phosphate, that's what ive been doing.


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## DonBrennon (Sep 25, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> If you don't want the egg shells in your bin than save them for making Calcium Phosphate, that's what ive been doing.


@iHearAll keeps banging on about this misnomer, the eggshells only contain about 0.01percent phos, they're pretty much all calcium carbonate. Still a damn good way of getting water soluble calcium though.

I've had the thought that, maybe if you used diluted ph down, which, in most cases is phosphoric acid, instead of the vinegar, you'd really get 'cal-phos'.............I was never good at chemistry though

Calcium broke down with phosphoric acid must make calcium phosphate, right?


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## iHearAll (Sep 25, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> @iHearAll keeps banging on about this misnomer, the eggshells only contain about 0.01percent phos, they're pretty much all calcium carbonate. Still a damn good way of getting water soluble calcium though.
> 
> I've had the thought that, maybe if you used diluted ph down, which, in most cases is phosphoric acid, instead of the vinegar, you'd really get 'cal-phos'.............I was never good at chemistry though
> 
> Calcium broke down with phosphoric acid must make calcium phosphate, right?


i think it turns into a superphosphate which is a nonorganic salt. there might be a heating process and a second wash in the acid but more or less i remember there being a commercial 0-30-0 made this way. they used lime as the calcium source


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## Wetdog (Sep 25, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I've heard from others that peat moss has to be replaced every two weeks when I used as bedding because it gets too acidic. Have you had any issues?


I've been using a peat based bedding for over 5 years with great results. However, it MUST be limed because of the acidity. In some bins, the bedding is 4 or 5 months old. Mostly, I use calcitic lime in the worm bedding, but sometimes dolo. Depends on what's closest to hand.

To make ~10 gals of bedding, it will be 1cf (7.5 gallons), of expanded peat, ~2 gallons of perlite, 1 healthy cup of Ag lime (calcitic), and ~1.5 cups of play sand for grit. Get it good and wet and let it sit outside for a couple of weeks in 5gal buckets with drainage holes. Might add a small amount, cup or less, of neem cake, or kelp meal, or alfalfa, or whatever to get some microbe action going.

I do a lasagna type deal with feeding (mostly comfrey and coffee grounds), so you usually know well in advance to make another batch of bedding.

Stopped with the eggshells years ago. Even crunched fine still found chunks 3 years later. Plus, the wife complained. A $4.50 bag of lime stopped the complaints. A bargain, even if it was 2-3x more as the calcitic lime is.

Wet


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## Javadog (Sep 25, 2016)

Wow, he does Hear All.... :0)


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## iHearAll (Sep 25, 2016)

nope im wrong haha its sulfuric acid breaking down phosphorite 

"
The main reaction of sulfuric acid disintegrating phosphorite to produce calcium superphosphate: 2Ca5F(PO4)3+7H2SO4+3H2O─→3Ca(H2PO4)2•H2O+7CaSO4+2HF 
"


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## iHearAll (Sep 25, 2016)

rock phosphate and sulfuric acid>>>
The practical reaction is divided into two steps: the first step, which is very fast and can be finished in few minutes, is the reaction between sulfuric acid and a part of phosphorite to produce phosphoric acid and calcium sulfate. Monocalcium phosphate can be produced when the phosphoric acid produced has reaction with a part of phosphorite. This step is controlled by liquid-phase diffusion, and the speed is very slow that it will last for few days or a couple of weeks.

Silicon tetrafluoride is produced when hydrogen fluoride that is produced from the reaction has reaction with silicon dioxide or silicate taken in by phosphorite. Some of it is overflowed, and a part of is hydrolyzed into fluosilicic acid and remained in the reaction mass. Some associated impurities and minerals of phosphorite are also involved in reaction: carbonate minerals are disintegrated by sulfuric acid rapidly, producing sulfate and overflow carbon dioxide. Iron and aluminium minerals are disintegrated into acid phosphate. Besides, a lot of crystal is separated out by the resultants of reaction. The material becomes stiff rapidly and is solidified into vesicular solid material.

http://www.bb-hy.com/en/Calcium-superphosphate_c44.html



ok so i guess the picture here is i was wrong about the phosphoric acid reaction 

my b


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## GreenSanta (Sep 25, 2016)

Wetdog said:


> I've been using a peat based bedding for over 5 years with great results. However, it MUST be limed because of the acidity. In some bins, the bedding is 4 or 5 months old. Mostly, I use calcitic lime in the worm bedding, but sometimes dolo. Depends on what's closest to hand.
> 
> To make ~10 gals of bedding, it will be 1cf (7.5 gallons), of expanded peat, ~2 gallons of perlite, 1 healthy cup of Ag lime (calcitic), and ~1.5 cups of play sand for grit. Get it good and wet and let it sit outside for a couple of weeks in 5gal buckets with drainage holes. Might add a small amount, cup or less, of neem cake, or kelp meal, or alfalfa, or whatever to get some microbe action going.
> 
> ...


very helpful Wet, totally applies to my system as I use a lot of coffee ground and comfrey... gonna try this on a large scale but i am wondering if you have tried something else than peat for bedding ? when in season, a mix of fall leaves for bedding I suppose you wouldnt add any lime?


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## Javadog (Sep 25, 2016)

I want to recommend putting things from the yard into the
freezer in a bag before using them with the bins. I added some
unexpected bugs into my bin when I did this....just pillbugs and such,
but it was still not intended.


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## iHearAll (Sep 26, 2016)

^^yea i get some crazy poisonous bugs in my worm bin hahaha in asia we used to get huge 6"+ scorpions in the compost and bins. lol there are a few of you guys who compost indoors. nah ahhhh not me. i did that a few weeks ago and had BSF larvae all over the floor all over the house for a week before i sent the party outside. that was alot of sweeping.


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## Wetdog (Sep 27, 2016)

GreenSanta said:


> very helpful Wet, totally applies to my system as I use a lot of coffee ground and comfrey... gonna try this on a large scale but i am wondering if you have tried something else than peat for bedding ? when in season, a mix of fall leaves for bedding I suppose you wouldnt add any lime?


IDK, because my 'leaf mold compost' is mainly a thick mulch layer on top of my raised beds and lime does get added, though not just for the leaves. I have noticed not many worms in the fresher, less broken down leaves, but many in the more broken down 2YO stuff near the bottom. I've never tried leaves as bedding in bins.

I've always liked the peat as bedding since it's a basic part of my mix anyway and what's not broken down just becomes more mix. Most of it gets turned into castings though. The comfrey 'juice' seems to soak into the peat moss causing decomposition that the worms then consume. At least I think so. The coffee grounds sit and sit, then sit some more, till that grayish mold covers it and the worms swarm it all at once. Seems like they sit for about a month till they are right for the worms. Even the comfrey is ignored till the bacterial growth gets right, then it's like free pizza at a 420 event. But the comfrey takes much less time, like perhaps a week or so. This is fresh that has been frozen.

HTH

Wet


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## Wetdog (Sep 27, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> Just wondered if you added anything to raise the pH. Lately I've just been grabbing scooping unfinished leaves from my compost pile (from the cooled down part of the pile), the worms seem to like it the most. I was just dumping them straight into a bedding of rabbit manure and timothy hay and cardboard (all soaked in piss since it's from a rabbit litter box so I leave it out in the rain to wash out salts first). They were still always trying to escape though...I'd have to keep a light on em. They don't pull that shit no more though. I mix the rabbit manure and litter along with food scraps and coffee grounds into the leaves little by little every week. They seem to love it.


Your Oyster Shell Flour would work perfect to raise and buffer the pH. 1cup of OSF/cf of bedding will do ya.

I did read something about too much crab shell meal negatively affecting worms, so you might want to check into it before using it for pH buffering. Something to do with chitanese IIRC, but really foggy on the memory.

Wet


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## Rasta Roy (Sep 27, 2016)

Wetdog said:


> Your Oyster Shell Flour would work perfect to raise and buffer the pH. 1cup of OSF/cf of bedding will do ya.
> 
> I did read something about too much crab shell meal negatively affecting worms, so you might want to check into it before using it for pH buffering. Something to do with chitanese IIRC, but really foggy on the memory.
> 
> Wet


I was just wondering out of curiosity. I don't like using peat for bedding because it's something extra I'd have to buy vs something I'm sourcing for free. That's why I double don't like the idea of having to add in my precious flour! Partially composted leaves have been solid bedding for me ever since I've been using it.


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## Wetdog (Sep 27, 2016)

Rasta Roy said:


> I was just wondering out of curiosity. I don't like using peat for bedding because it's something extra I'd have to buy vs something I'm sourcing for free. That's why I double don't like the idea of having to add in my precious flour! Partially composted leaves have been solid bedding for me ever since I've been using it.


If it works well for you and your worms, that's the #1 priority. Being free is icing on the cake. 

I really don't know if partially composted leaves need pH buffering or not. When I add lime to the raised beds, it's for the clay soil underneith, but the leaves get hit also. If they don't need buffering, then don't.

Are you shipping oyster shell flour? That's the reason I don't use it. $30 shipping for a $9 product is just too dear for me. I did find Ag lime at HD. Pure calcium carbonate for $16/40lb bag. That I can afford and it's a 1 to 1 replacement for OSF. Something to look for if you are having to ship.

Wet


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## Rasta Roy (Sep 28, 2016)

No I don't like getting stuff shipped. There's a Michigan company called Organically Done that stocks a local grow store near me with five pound bags for nine bucks. I don't seem to need to pH the leaves, the worms have reacted well to the bedding. They're breeding much more than when I just had them in rabbit litter and manure.


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## Rasta Roy (Sep 28, 2016)

I should mention the leaves I use for bedding aren't just leaves off the ground...they are shredded and partially composted...taken from an outer cooler layer of one of my compost piles (compromised of shredded leaves and coffee grounds).


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## MeJuana (Sep 29, 2016)

Wetdog said:


> Are you shipping oyster shell flour? That's the reason I don't use it. $30 shipping for a $9 product is just too dear for me. I did find Ag lime at HD. Pure calcium carbonate for $16/40lb bag. That I can afford and it's a 1 to 1 replacement for OSF. Something to look for if you are having to ship.
> 
> Wet


I make a short drive and get 50lb for 12 bucks along with other great stuff like glacial rock, gypsum and stuff. Check your feed stores, worm farms and etc locally for me it is worth it to do a 2 hour round trip, throw a few bags of this stuff in the truck.


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## Rasta Roy (Sep 29, 2016)

MeJuana said:


> I make a short drive and get 50lb for 12 bucks along with other great stuff like glacial rock, gypsum and stuff. Check your feed stores, worm farms and etc locally for me it is worth it to do a 2 hour round trip, throw a few bags of this stuff in the truck.


Nice! The oyster shell flour and crab shell meal are the only things I buy any more, and I'm in Michigan a little far from the ocean so while my cost isn't much, I'm sure you can probably get a better deal on ocean products like them.

I buy in bulk too, I'm hoping by the time I work my way through the last of my amendments I'll have enough of my home made castings, compost, and broke down rabbit manure/litter to fertilize everything.


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## Mohican (Oct 15, 2016)

Don't forget kelp meal for the micros and enzymes.


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## Rocket Soul (Nov 8, 2016)

Subbed


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## ShLUbY (Jan 1, 2017)

bumping this thread back to the top  just ordered 1000 worms from uncle jims and looking forward to the worm farming


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## Tyleb173rd (Jan 1, 2017)

I'm finally catching on to how the worms operate. They are eating a ton now.


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## Rrog (Jan 1, 2017)

Anyone put a worm bin in the grow room? They make a lotta CO2 on a constant basis


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## Tyleb173rd (Jan 1, 2017)

Rrog said:


> Anyone put a worm bin in the grow room? They make a lotta CO2 on a constant basis


Would the bugs spread to the plants? I have all kinds of little boogers in my worm bin.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 1, 2017)

Rrog said:


> Anyone put a worm bin in the grow room? They make a lotta CO2 on a constant basis


Hmm I have 4 worm bins currently and love this idea if the co2 is in a quantity to actually have an effect on the plants... has anyone tested this that you can link to?


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## Jp.the.pope (Jan 1, 2017)

Rrog said:


> Anyone put a worm bin in the grow room? They make a lotta CO2 on a constant basis


I like where your heads at 

Also finished the clone / veg boxes and lights. Not sure if you saw the update in my grow room thread


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## iHearAll (Jan 1, 2017)

my bins are no where near clean enough to bring indoors. maybe if i start a fresh culture


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## ShLUbY (Jan 1, 2017)

mine will be kept by my passive air intake to the flower room. 

Was looking for a little advice. I have 1000 worms coming. I will be putting them in a 20-27gal tote (seems like 1 tote is best for 1k worms i think its about 3-5 square feet). I have a couple options for bedding available.

1) I have some working compost downstairs that has been tended to for the past month or so. its working nicely. So i was wondering if i should just use some of this for bedding, and maybe some leftover soil mixed with that. the soil is in totes moistened to aid root breakdown until I get it composting amendments again. It's from my previous run and has not been reamended

2) I could just start with a fresh bin as I have leaves composting, peat, coco, pumice, rock dusts, working compost, ect ect ect.

what would be best for a beginner? probably starting fresh?


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## Rasta Roy (Jan 1, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> mine will be kept by my passive air intake to the flower room.
> 
> Was looking for a little advice. I have 1000 worms coming. I will be putting them in a 20-27gal tote (seems like 1 tote is best for 1k worms i think its about 3-5 square feet). I have a couple options for bedding available.
> 
> ...


Your compost mixed with some old soil would work best in my opinion! I had a hard time when I first got my worm bin getting the bedding down right. Once I started using the mostly finished product from my tumbling composters...Things started going much better. I mix in old soil when I'm low on the compost for bedding. Works great.


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## iHearAll (Jan 1, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> mine will be kept by my passive air intake to the flower room.
> 
> Was looking for a little advice. I have 1000 worms coming. I will be putting them in a 20-27gal tote (seems like 1 tote is best for 1k worms i think its about 3-5 square feet). I have a couple options for bedding available.
> 
> ...


plain composted manure and burried in veggie scraps. i think black cow would be ok but havent tried store bought manure. if you can get fresh manure then just let it sit in a pile for two or three weeks to let it mature. if you have chickens itd be a goid opportunity to let them scratch the fly larvae out of the pile


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## ShLUbY (Jan 1, 2017)

Rasta Roy said:


> Your compost mixed with some old soil would work best in my opinion! I had a hard time when I first got my worm bin getting the bedding down right. Once I started using the mostly finished product from my tumbling composters...Things started going much better. I mix in old soil when I'm low on the compost for bedding. Works great.


Layered or just kinda mixed together? And i mainly want to feed on one side of the bin, so i can harvest a side when its done and just feed them on the other side so they leave the side with castings. Or should i just let them work the whole bin and vary my feeding locations throughout and sort the pile when its devoured. 

Im working through this thread to see what everyone has been doing to pick out all the jewel advice


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## Rasta Roy (Jan 2, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> Layered or just kinda mixed together? And i mainly want to feed on one side of the bin, so i can harvest a side when its done and just feed them on the other side so they leave the side with castings. Or should i just let them work the whole bin and vary my feeding locations throughout and sort the pile when its devoured.
> 
> Im working through this thread to see what everyone has been doing to pick out all the jewel advice


Mixed together!

For my giant worm tub, I started with one giant bit of bedding and food buried everywhere, once the bedding starts to look like a big pile of worm castings I'll shovel it all to one side of the tub, make new bedding on the other side with scraps, etc. After about week, the old side will be ready to harvest and the process starts again.

My worm tower is a little easier, just put a fresh level on top of the old one and wait for them to crawl up. But the population in the tub seems like they thrive better and breed more. Not sure why!


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## Rrog (Jan 2, 2017)

@NaturalFarmer was measuring CO2 from some composting that was happening during top-dressing his plants. 

A worm bin would be a steady source.


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## Wetdog (Jan 2, 2017)

"What would be best for a beginner?" Well, you finally asked the right question. K.I.S.S. till you can keep the worms without killing them, THEN experiment.

I would really suggest going to redwormcomposting.com for excellent information on getting started. Not only basic information, but the guy likes to experiment and tells just what works and what doesn't.

BTW, you will need 2 totes. One, for the worms and bedding with drainage and air holes drilled into it and a second with no holes to catch the drippings from the first. Use bricks or something to create a space between the two, for the leachate. There is a 'How to' with pics on the site mentioned. Mine are still working well after 7 years.

For bedding in my stock bins, a simple peat moss/perlite/lime mix is used. Have 3 stock bins and up to 7 bins during the season. The seasonal bins may have used mix, or, whatever is handy in them since they get used entirely, worms and all. The stock bins are so full of worms the ones removed for the seasonal bins are never missed.

Worms are easy, but just like mj they can be loved to death in the same way. Usually from overfeeding and too much water. It's hard at first, but a real LITFA attitude is necessary.

Wet


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## NaturalFarmer (Jan 2, 2017)

Rrog said:


> @NaturalFarmer was measuring CO2 from some composting that was happening during top-dressing his plants.
> 
> A worm bin would be a steady source.


I'm currently thinking that the CO2 from my soil is a by product of the high calcium carbonate and not decomposition. As the calcium becomes available for the plant in an acidic soil, it releases the carbon as CO2. I do think there is a much more dynamic process going on then that but my soil has 81% calcium saturation and much of that is in carbonate form.


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## Rasta Roy (Jan 2, 2017)

NaturalFarmer said:


> I'm currently thinking that the CO2 from my soil is a by product of the high calcium carbonate and not decomposition. As the calcium becomes available for the plant in an acidic soil, it releases the carbon as CO2. I do think there is a much more dynamic process going on then that but my soil has 81% calcium saturation and much of that is in carbonate form.


I'm jealous of how aware you are of the actual make up of your soil! I know how to build a good soil, and I believe I build a good soil because I get good results consistently. But I can't quote my calcium concentrations and shit like that lol. Now that I've got my big beds set up tho I'm gonna drop the exscuses and start doing lab tests of my soil every few months.


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## Moe Flo (Jan 2, 2017)

Gotta love them egg shells! Oh and coffee grinds.


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## NaturalFarmer (Jan 2, 2017)

Rasta Roy said:


> I'm jealous of how aware you are of the actual make up of your soil! I know how to build a good soil, and I believe I build a good soil because I get good results consistently. But I can't quote my calcium concentrations and shit like that lol. Now that I've got my big beds set up tho I'm gonna drop the exscuses and start doing lab tests of my soil every few months.


Thanks bro. Just make sure you get the base saturation test with it. I really would like to do a plant tissue analysis someday when it becomes legal to see what is really going on and whether more yield can be squeezed from different strains.
http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/services/analysis/plants.html


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## ShLUbY (Jan 2, 2017)

Wetdog said:


> "What would be best for a beginner?" Well, you finally asked the right question. K.I.S.S. till you can keep the worms without killing them, THEN experiment.
> 
> I would really suggest going to redwormcomposting.com for excellent information on getting started. Not only basic information, but the guy likes to experiment and tells just what works and what doesn't.
> 
> ...



as always, great info and thank you for it. i would have messed up right off the get go without the drain tub 

i will go and check out the site you recommended for sure.

how many lbs of food per week or bi weekly should I expect to feed the little buggers? 1000 worms.....

also... how much dolomite per gallon of bedding do you think? i have oyster shell if dolomite is not as useful.... 

im gonna get my bin put together tomorrow. peat, coco, shredded leaves, dolomite, rock dust, pumice, and put some food in early so it can start breaking down and the worms have a meal to welcome them when they arrive. i have some compost working they should like, and also scraps in the freezer i can thaw out, mash and put in.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 2, 2017)

Imo a drain tub for worm bins is not needed at al.. my worm bins are the kiss method sure simple super easy... Rubbermaid with a hole drilled in the side near the bottom... some form of synthetic rope in the hole or on the bottom of the bin (this will leech of your excess wormy juice when needed) Pete Moss, worms, done.. had worked great for years


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## Rrog (Jan 4, 2017)

Put the worm bin in the grow room and be done with it. I would never screw with the soil simply to elicit a magic trick like making CO2. That's simply a distraction.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 4, 2017)

im in a tent atm sadly but they are all very close to the tent with negative pressure from the fan... maybe once i get a room built out i will ad them in somewhere if possible... hard to take up "grow space" for worms i guess if i dont have a co2 meter or anything to ensure they are actually doing anything effective.. but hey maybe once i get the room built we will see


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## Javadog (Jan 4, 2017)

You could duct air from the bin into the tent. This would dry the
bin out over time, but not too fast. Great idea Rrog. :0)


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## ShLUbY (Jan 4, 2017)

Javadog said:


> You could duct air from the bin into the tent. This would dry the
> bin out over time, but not too fast. Great idea Rrog. :0)


mine will sit right by my passive intake on the outside of the flower room. done deal


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## Tyleb173rd (Jan 4, 2017)

Am I the only one worried about bugs?


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## ShLUbY (Jan 4, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> Am I the only one worried about bugs?


yup! what bugs are you worried about?


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## Javadog (Jan 4, 2017)

I am not bringing mine in from the backyard unto the mancave either,
but I might start a new one with clean materials....hmmmm. :0)


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## Tyleb173rd (Jan 4, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> yup! what bugs are you worried about?


I've got all kinds of bugs in my bin. For me, it shouldn't come close to my flower room.


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## ShLUbY (Jan 4, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> I've got all kinds of bugs in my bin. For me, it shouldn't come close to my flower room.


but do you know what they are, what their habits are, and what their food source is? it's likely not living plant material if they're hanging out in your bins....


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## Tyleb173rd (Jan 4, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> but do you know what they are, what their habits are, and what their food source is? it's likely not living plant material if they're hanging out in your bins....


I know what they do but I still don't want bugs near me bitches. However, I do have the bin near my veg tent.


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## Rrog (Jan 5, 2017)

Shouldn't me anything in a healthy worm bin that would hurt plants. Always good to have some predators in your soil to protect. Nematodes, hypoaspis mites, BTI,


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## Rrog (Jan 5, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> some form of synthetic rope in the hole or on the bottom of the bin (this will leech of your excess wormy juice when needed) Pete Moss, worms, done.. had worked great for years


I like the rope. My buddy runs a tote worm bin. I will pass this tidbit along. Thanks for that!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 5, 2017)

Rrog said:


> I like the rope. My buddy runs a tote worm bin. I will pass this tidbit along. Thanks for that!


you're most welcome man! I have jars and jars of lechate from this method and then the worms don't get too wet sitting in there own worm juice and such... i just wonder how long the stuff i have had for a while is useful for... normally i add it to compost teas hoping it will add microbes.. or even just add to water as well.


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## Rrog (Jan 5, 2017)

I am still using 4 year old Bokashi. I moved and built a place and still have this shit in storage. I sprinkle some on the worm bin. They love the microbes in this.


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## Rrog (Jan 5, 2017)

You're doing some great work, MeanGreen. Thank you for posting anc contributing.


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## ShLUbY (Jan 5, 2017)

Well it's official.... I'm a newb worm farmer!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 5, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> Well it's official.... I'm a newb worm farmer!
> 
> View attachment 3869008 View attachment 3869004


beautiful man! put some veggies and coffe grounds under the surface cover in dry leaves and a black chunk of landscaper plastic ( i have used a garbage bad in a pinch) and let em get to town munching away! ... oh and make sure you have a way to get the lechate drain out. Easiest way i have found is a 1" - 1.5" hole in the side of the tub with a chunk of SYNTHETIC rope (so the worms don't try to eat it lol) going along to bottom of the tub, and out the hole into a jar or something to catch it. This will probably be dry until the bin gets really saturated, depending on the medium. I am an all pete moss guy myself so it holds a lot of moisture.


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## ShLUbY (Jan 5, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> beautiful man! put some veggies and coffe grounds under the surface cover in dry leaves and a black chunk of landscaper plastic ( i have used a garbage bad in a pinch) and let em get to town munching away! ... oh and make sure you have a way to get the lechate drain out. Easiest way i have found is a 1" - 1.5" hole in the side of the tub with a chunk of SYNTHETIC rope (so the worms don't try to eat it lol) going along to bottom of the tub, and out the hole into a jar or something to catch it. This will probably be dry until the bin gets really saturated, depending on the medium. I am an all pete moss guy myself so it holds a lot of moisture.


i have all kinds of stuff. peat, coco, leaves, rice hulls, pumice. i made sure i hydrated all of it a couple days before the worms came and let the bin sit with a little food in it for their arrival. it was 15 deg F. today when they arrived lol. they were a bit slow and cold, but they're coming around.


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## DonBrennon (Jan 5, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> Well it's official.... I'm a newb worm farmer!
> 
> View attachment 3869008 View attachment 3869004


Congratulations!!!


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## Wetdog (Jan 5, 2017)

Just to be clear for the newer worm wranglers and such, worms don't "EAT" anything. They have no teeth or jaws and very tiny mouths.

What they do is slurp up the bacterial slime from decomposing material. Fungal slime also, but anything solid is beyond them.

Personally, I don't bury food, never have. Like to keep an eye on it and avoid overfeeding. I'll feed 2 or 3x and then add an inch or so of fresh bedding and repeat the process, like a lasagna.

But, whatever works for the individual.

Wet


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## Rrog (Jan 5, 2017)

Slime Slurpin' mo-fos!


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## Wetdog (Jan 5, 2017)

Rrog said:


> Slime Slurpin' mo-fos!


Wonder if they would like fizzy slime?

Wet


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## Rrog (Jan 5, 2017)

oh no! lol

I have to say, I'm so encouraged that there are so many vermicomposters out there. It is such a good amendment when applied properly. The immune response benefits extend to the leaves and branches, even though the worms are restricted to the soil. 

It's the way it was supposed to be.


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## ShLUbY (Jan 5, 2017)

yeah i am aware they munch the slime and what not 

@Rrog i definitely noticed a difference in my grow when i stopped using worm power castings because i had enough homemade compost on hand. Seemed like the plants were missing something!


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## Rrog (Jan 5, 2017)

It's like a new creature is created. Plant +microbes + soil. Interesting dynamics we get to see up close. Very cool


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## greasemonkeymann (Jan 5, 2017)

Wetdog said:


> Just to be clear for the newer worm wranglers and such, worms don't "EAT" anything. They have no teeth or jaws and very tiny mouths.
> 
> What they do is slurp up the bacterial slime from decomposing material. Fungal slime also, but anything solid is beyond them.
> 
> ...


ohhh man... you must have a good smell-tolerance...
I have to ALWAYS bury mine...
I freeze em, thaw em, mash em, and leave em out in the bag in the sun for a day or two before feeding, and the smell is just... well..
unpleasant.
speaking of smells.
the smell of composting kale is THE worst smell I have EVER smelled.
no joke, no exaggeration, and i'm a mechanic that has smelled some funky cars, hell we just yanked out a rotted-decaying-full-of-maggots rat corpse out of a lexus,and that one was GNARLY
but that was nothin compared to the kale..
kale when it decomposes smells JUST like a month old deer carcass (don't ask how I can tell)
only worse...
not sure if its the sulfur or what, but composted kale is the worst shit EVER
just beyond funky


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## Wetdog (Jan 5, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> i have all kinds of stuff. peat, coco, leaves, rice hulls, pumice. i made sure i hydrated all of it a couple days before the worms came and let the bin sit with a little food in it for their arrival. it was 15 deg F. today when they arrived lol. they were a bit slow and cold, but they're coming around.


Congrats! Now, just don't kill them. LOL Just because you have all kinds of stuff doesn't mean it all belongs in the bin (pumice?!?). With worms, simplicity in bedding and food will win out over diversity every time, at least till the bin gets established in 4 or 5 months. Then is the time to experiment and try different things.

You'll see as time goes on. Any questions, just ask, have had bins going for over 6 years now.

Wet


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## Rrog (Jan 5, 2017)

Composted kale? Really? Now I want to compost some just to experience it


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## greasemonkeymann (Jan 5, 2017)

Rrog said:


> Composted kale? Really? Now I want to compost some just to experience it


ohhhhh man....
if you do...
be prepared...
even buried it smelled like a deer carcass was outside my house..
I had to redig it UP, and toss it in the damn forest down the street from my house
just the nastiest..
if you were blindfolded it's literally the SAME smell as a rotting carcass, just a speck worse, a gag-inducing-funk
I had a hair-brained idea that since kale is so loaded with micros for people that it'd be a good like land-kelp type of thing for my wormbin
bad idea...
if you do it...
think of your greasy monkey friend that warned ya


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## Rrog (Jan 5, 2017)

Amazing...


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## Wetdog (Jan 5, 2017)

greasemonkeymann said:


> ohhh man... you must have a good smell-tolerance...
> I have to ALWAYS bury mine...
> I freeze em, thaw em, mash em, and leave em out in the bag in the sun for a day or two before feeding, and the smell is just... well..
> unpleasant.
> ...


Would really like to kick whomever touted kale squarely in the balls. That stuff is the WORST! The ONLY way it was halfway edible was braised in bacon grease and even then, my wife and I decided it was a waste of good bacon grease. We do love our collard greens though and have them at least weekly.

What really pissed me off was the wasted garden space in growing the kale for 'real' organic kale.

AAhhhhh Here's the difference and perhaps the reason for no smell. This is mostly comfrey, whole leaves. I freeze them for however long, but put them still frozen on the surface of the worm bin. By the time they start to smell, the worms are scarfing down the smelly stuff. I've never defrosted anything before adding to the bins and never noticed bad smells or frost bit worms.

Give it a try.

Wet


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## ShLUbY (Jan 5, 2017)

Wetdog said:


> Congrats! Now, just don't kill them. LOL Just because you have all kinds of stuff doesn't mean it all belongs in the bin (pumice?!?). With worms, simplicity in bedding and food will win out over diversity every time, at least till the bin gets established in 4 or 5 months. Then is the time to experiment and try different things.
> 
> You'll see as time goes on. Any questions, just ask, have had bins going for over 6 years now.
> 
> Wet


i'll do my best. seems like the bedding should would out pretty well. time will tell  I definitely read in a lot of posts its best to just leave them alone to do their thing, feed once in awhile, and leave them alone some more!


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## Rrog (Jan 5, 2017)

Wetdog said:


> Would really like to kick whomever touted kale squarely in the balls. That stuff is the WORST! The ONLY way it was halfway edible was braised in bacon grease and even then, my wife and I decided it was a waste of good bacon grease.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!


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## greasemonkeymann (Jan 5, 2017)

Wetdog said:


> Would really like to kick whomever touted kale squarely in the balls. That stuff is the WORST! The ONLY way it was halfway edible was braised in bacon grease and even then, my wife and I decided it was a waste of good bacon grease. We do love our collard greens though and have them at least weekly.
> 
> What really pissed me off was the wasted garden space in growing the kale for 'real' organic kale.
> 
> ...


mmmmmmm
BBQ'ed Brussel sprouts braised in bacon grease is yummmmmmmy...
or bbqed asparagus, or broccoli too...
ohhh man that's tasty goodness


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## Wetdog (Jan 5, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> i'll do my best. seems like the bedding should would out pretty well. time will tell  I definitely read in a lot of posts its best to just leave them alone to do their thing, feed once in awhile, and leave them alone some more!


That's pretty much it, the original LITFA animals.

Be sure to add a bit of liming stuff and some play sand for grit. Oyster shell flour should cover for both since I thought you said you had some. Don't think they are particular about grit as long as they can swallow it.

Wet


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## ShLUbY (Jan 5, 2017)

yeah i put a couple tbsp of lime in the bedding, and then when i layered the bedding, one of the layers i threw some rock dust and kelp meal, another layer i did some oyster shell and crab meal. like 1.5tbsp of each. i put some garden soil from near my compost pile in it as well, like a pint at the most. fairly loamy soil.


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## greasemonkeymann (Jan 5, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> yeah i put a couple tbsp of lime in the bedding, and then when i layered the bedding, one of the layers i threw some rock dust and kelp meal, another layer i did some oyster shell and crab meal. like 1.5tbsp of each. i put some garden soil from near my compost pile in it as well, like a pint at the most. fairly loamy soil.


I like to roast a good dozen egg shells in the toaster oven at like 200 degrees or so, then pop them in my coffee grinder to make dust of em
oyster flour is badass too
I cant remember where you are geographically, but I LOVE to set tarps out before storms to capture the native earthworms, those guys are SUPER great at aeration, they tunnel up and down, up and down, nonstop, leaving their microbial rich bacterial poop as they go


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## ShLUbY (Jan 5, 2017)

greasemonkeymann said:


> I like to roast a good dozen egg shells in the toaster oven at like 200 degrees or so, then pop them in my coffee grinder to make dust of em
> oyster flour is badass too


yup already been doing that in my compost bin i have, so the compost i feed the worms will have them in there already


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## Javadog (Jan 5, 2017)

Congrats on advancing Shluby.

I had not thought of using earthworms....known as better tunnelers
than composters....but that makes a lot of sense. Good stuff indeed. :0)

I am happy that this thread woke up. I need more worms. :0)


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## ShLUbY (Jan 6, 2017)

well they're not trying to escape.... so that must be a good sign! i have the rotting materials in two layers below, a deeper layer of working composted leaves/coffee grounds/few amendments that i started back in early november. and then theres a layer above the next layer of bedding of pre thawed food scraps that were in there for a couple days before the worms arrived.

i dont even see any worms (except the few that didnt make it through shipping) in the top layer of peat mixture they arrived in.... so it must be going good off the rip?????


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## Tyleb173rd (Jan 6, 2017)

When I first started I had a bunch escape. They are happy now. There are 500 more coming soon,


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## GreenSanta (Jan 13, 2017)

I have a game for all the worms geeks,

-Name your 2 favorite bedding to raise worms for cannabis

-Name 5 ingredients you would feed your worms (besides the bedding...) if you were only allowed 5 ingredients for the rest of your life.

The primary goal is to raise the worms, not so much the castings, however the castings will be use to grow your herb.


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## Tyleb173rd (Jan 13, 2017)

1: Plant stems and coco
2. Greens, banana peels, apples, egg shells, dry oatmeal


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## Javadog (Jan 13, 2017)

Here's an odd one...odd because I haven't used it yet myself, but
it just seems like a natural fit for bedding: rice hulls


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## ShLUbY (Jan 20, 2017)

Worm farming couldn't have had a better start. Owe it all to you fine folks here at Organic RIU. Thanks so much for all the advice, and these guys thank you too! looking forward to getting a second bin going in a couple months when the next generation starts getting mature. Poking around in the bedding and seeing all kinds of nice casting already.


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## Javadog (Jan 20, 2017)

Those are happy looking worms. :0)


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## ShLUbY (Jan 25, 2017)

you guys put the occasional Tbsp of neem meal in your worm bins or no? that stuff always gets super fuzzy and breaks down nicely... just unsure if it's viable amendment to the bin having the N content that it does.


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## Vnsmkr (Jan 25, 2017)

I think its fine shluby, but will be interesting to see what some say


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## Fastslappy (Jan 25, 2017)

neem meal in the worm bin seems a waste of neem imo


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## ShLUbY (Jan 25, 2017)

Fastslappy said:


> neem meal in the worm bin seems a waste of neem imo


what makes you say that? it's only a tbsp or two....


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## Vnsmkr (Jan 25, 2017)

Have a look here...at what this gent referenced

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/2194692/neem-and-vermicomposting


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## ShLUbY (Jan 25, 2017)

Vnsmkr said:


> Have a look here...at what this gent referenced
> 
> http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/2194692/neem-and-vermicomposting


nice work. seems good to me!!!


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## Fastslappy (Jan 25, 2017)

OK why add it ? it's more a pest control that is a top feed & those pest qualities are gone by the time it's worm poop 
seems there are cheaper foods for worms & save the expensive neem for control


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## Fastslappy (Jan 25, 2017)

that's a test where it's in tropics as the control was mango leaves 
worms love any seed over leaf as the leaf is high carbon low protein 
IF u wanna feed your worms neem go right ahead unless u live in a area that grows neem trees it's kinda expensive 
I feed mine grated avocado pit , now those are free as waste I eat at least avo's 2 a day


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## Vnsmkr (Jan 25, 2017)

FYI
05-19-2013, 01:25 AM

ClackamasCootz





Expired
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,562














































*StayBlazinDawg*

I add neem meal to the worm bins where you have all kinds of microbial colonies, soil mites and the rest and everything does very well. 

CC


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## Vnsmkr (Jan 25, 2017)

There is always more than one way to skin a cat. There were also more than 1 article no? One I thought was Kenya


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## Fastslappy (Jan 25, 2017)

Vnsmkr said:


> FYI
> 05-19-2013, 01:25 AM
> 
> ClackamasCootz
> ...


Well that settles then , if Coot does it


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## Vnsmkr (Jan 25, 2017)

I'm just providing what I think to be valid info I am seeing referenced . I can see both sides. Is karanja cheaper where you are or same cost?


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## Vnsmkr (Jan 25, 2017)

I definitely don't think a few spoonfuls is gonna break the bank though, worth a test


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## calliandra (Jan 26, 2017)

GreenSanta said:


> I have a game for all the worms geeks,
> 
> -Name your 2 favorite bedding to raise worms for cannabis
> 
> ...


good one! 
favorite bedding: cardboard and dry leaves

hm as for 5 ingredients... not sure on that, especially with worm reproduction in mind!
I tend to just throw any *veggie*/*fruit *scraps I happen to have together and chop them up in the mixer, filtering out excess water (and giving that to whomever of my other plants who seem to be wanting a boost). 
I then always add some *eggshells *and* coffee grounds*, and mix in some *canna clippings*. 
I'd want to name comfrey as the fifth I think, to replace the assorted other stuff that I add irregularly on whim: neem, kelp, rock phosphate... soy meal,rice/oats/chickpea...assorted herbs...

Cheers!


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## ShLUbY (Jan 26, 2017)

Fastslappy said:


> OK why add it ? it's more a pest control that is a top feed & those pest qualities are gone by the time it's worm poop
> seems there are cheaper foods for worms & save the expensive neem for control


but for me it's not about pest control. it's about building a richer, more diverse vermicompost (also put neem in my regular compost for the same reasons and to help with heat rxns for the thermophiles). if i get 9lbs of chronic ahimsa neem seed meal for 28$, a couple tbsp is probably worth <.25c and only going into the bin maybe once month?

I use neem meal as a main food web ingredient in my soil, not just for pests. honestly i rarely use it for pests (thankfully I don't have any that are pissing me off  )


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 26, 2017)

You all worry a LOT more then me about those worms.  I give em what the leftoverstatus from the veggies I eat (and of course all the coffee grounds) also all the non sugary canna trim for sure.. never considered buying things to give them really and mine THRIVE! I'm not knocking anyone else's approach at all, just saying the KISS method works great for me!


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## ShLUbY (Jan 26, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> You all worry a LOT more then me about those worms.  I give em what the leftoverstatus from the veggies I eat (and of course all the coffee grounds) also all the non sugary canna trim for sure.. never considered buying things to give them really and mine THRIVE! I'm not knocking anyone else's approach at all, just saying the KISS method works great for me!


well i didnt buy the neem just for the wormbin lol. it's just sitting around! I just didnt know if it would have any negative effects on the bin. why not share a lil with them??  I know what you mean though they literally don't require much attention at all. I'm gone 4/7 days a week and just check to make sure they're happy when i get back. throw em a banana and some freezer mush and/or compost (if they even need anything) and leave em alone  I'm trying to be patient for my first run of castings....... i need more worms lol


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## Jaybodankly (Jan 26, 2017)

Not that I use it but Purina makes a Worm Chow.


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## Fastslappy (Jan 26, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> I'm trying to be patient for my first run of castings....... i need more worms lol


three bins going & I've only gotten a bin worth from the my 1st that's ready to use
it does take awhile for them to eat everything in the bin 
the EWC i made is fantastic , the store bought EWC bag stuff doesn't compare


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 26, 2017)

I started with a bin a found at a garage sale for literally 5 bucks ... it was A huge Rubbermaid FULL of worms and castings... SCORE! that was 2 years ago and I split the bin and harvest castings once a year using a commercial stacking worm bin... (about all its good for is straining imo) so now I have 4 bins and a huge tote full of castings.. looked in there the other day and still living worms in it with no food or moisture or anything given for about a year... just chilling in the basement waiting to make some great soil!


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## Fastslappy (Jan 26, 2017)

yeah i got a tote full as well & seen a few at the top & quickly they got a new home with feed
can't say I Buy anything for the worms to eat but they get tea leaves,banana peel , any veggies we eat all the trim, any male plant goes in after chopping ,nuking,freezing , any leaves i find near the bin as the trees above are constantly in leaf gets mixed with shredded newsprint . i grate avocado pits aas well 
i do hit the bins with oyster shell flower


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 26, 2017)

I heard from a master vermicomposter that newspaper actually has a lot of clay in it which worms do not like...and I think the ground egg shells that I use serve a similar purpose as the oyster shell flower?


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## ShLUbY (Jan 26, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I heard from a master vermicomposter that newspaper actually has a lot of clay in it which worms do not like...and I think the ground egg shells that I use servea a similar purpose as the oyster shell flower?


yeah i think any good Ca source is good for battling acidity and i hear the Ca makes them want to reproduce....


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## Fastslappy (Jan 26, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I heard from a master vermicomposter that newspaper actually has a lot of clay in it which worms do not like...and I think the ground egg shells that I use serve a similar purpose as the oyster shell flower?


If the size can be milled grit sized so a worm can injest it then yes but just smashed to small chips that's best used as drainage in compost
Newspaper is bedding & only 5% of the bin by volume


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## ShLUbY (Jan 26, 2017)

Fastslappy said:


> If the size can be milled grit sized so a worm can injest it then yes but just smashed to small chips that's best used as drainage in compost
> Newspaper is bedding & only 5% of the bin by volume


yeah all eggshells get baked and put to the mortar and pestle and turned into a fine powder


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 26, 2017)

Yeah I try to grind them down as fine as possible I know.not all of them get to powder... maybe will have to try the cal phos or something but I'm not 100% sold on that yet, still digging around.. for now maybe I'll try baking and breaking out the mortar and pestle.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 26, 2017)

Kinda off topic for this thread but I'm super syched atm... the wife gave me permission to use a strip of the basement about 5.5 feet x 20 feet and I got the first 5 x 5 spot framed up and panda filmed (just temp till I get some sheetrock) and all plants moved from a tent for the first time ever! I feel like I'm finally taking off the training wheels!!!


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## ShLUbY (Jan 26, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Kinda off topic for this thread but I'm super syched atm... the wife gave me permission to use a strip of the basement about 5.5 feet x 20 feet and I got the first 5 x 5 spot framed up and panda filmed (just temp till I get some sheetrock) and all plants moved from a tent for the first time ever! I feel like I'm finally taking off the training wheels!!!


why sheetrock it??? such a pain lol i just panda'd mine and called it good. if you look in my grow thread on the first page i build a nice passive intake with furnace filters that I highly recommend. change em out when they get cruddy. its just built into the wall on the outside of the room.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 26, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> why sheetrock it??? such a pain lol i just panda'd mine and called it good. if you look in my grow thread on the first page i build a nice passive intake with furnace filters that I highly recommend. change em out when they get cruddy. its just built into the wall on the outside of the room.


Hmm I have been trying to find and intake idea.. and I just like to do it up right ... I already framed 2x4 wall that is 12 feet and then made a 36 inch door rough opening in that soooo a few slabs of rock isn't going to be a big deal at this point lol and then I will paint all that latex white... get my led the end of next month... move the 600 watt hid into flower and the big ass led to flower and see if I can really bang some shit out.


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## calliandra (Jan 26, 2017)

Yeah I don't bother roasting my eggshells, apparently the roasting bring out the Phosphorus more and I neither need nor want that.


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## ShLUbY (Jan 26, 2017)

calliandra said:


> Yeah I don't bother roasting my eggshells, apparently the roasting bring out the Phosphorus more and I neither need nor want that.


do they get brittle enough if you just leave them out for a long time? the membrane on the inside does not like to break down it seemed but i guess i just haven't tried to mortar them without baking....


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## ShLUbY (Jan 26, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> Hmm I have been trying to find and intake idea.. and I just like to do it up right ... I already framed 2x4 wall that is 12 feet and then made a 36 inch door rough opening in that soooo a few slabs of rock isn't going to be a big deal at this point lol and then I will paint all that latex white... get my led the end of next month... move the 600 watt hid into flower and the big ass led to flower and see if I can really bang some shit out.


yeah i think you'll like my set up for the passive intake. give her a look see


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## calliandra (Jan 27, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> do they get brittle enough if you just leave them out for a long time? the membrane on the inside does not like to break down it seemed but i guess i just haven't tried to mortar them without baking....


Actually I just dry them like 24hrs and crumble them up a bit when I throw them in the collection can, where they sit until I need them. 
I don't remove that membrane either. But I do use a blender for making rather irregular "meal".

I like having those bigger chunks left over, so they will cater more to aeration and longterm calcium supply, whilst the powdery parts will be more quickly available and are wormbite-sized too.
I do get lazy and just crunchycrunch a handful of eggshells into the wormbin on occasion. Because the longterm is more interesting for me anyway: that's when that vermicompost will be in my pots, where I want the calcium brought into the nutrient cycle.


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## Jaybodankly (Jan 27, 2017)

I stop by the bakery and get a 5 gal pail full of eggshells. Goes into the compost, time will take care of them.


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## Wetdog (Jan 27, 2017)

I quit using eggshells some years ago when the wife complained, plus found 'crunched' shell bits 3 years later in the bins. I always add some active bedding back to a fresh bin when I harvest. Put some in a bucket to put the seperated out worms in till the fresh bedding is in the harvested bin.

Now, I just add pulverized dolo or calcitic lime to the bedding, a peat/perlite/lime mix made in advance. It's cheap, easy, and keeps the wife happy. YMMV

Worms LOVE neem cake! The once/month mentioned is excellent advice. I keep some by the bins to add every now and then.

The main food is coffee grounds and fresh frozen comfrey, probably 85% of the total. Chicken "laying mash" is a light top dress that both fattens the worms up and spurs reproduction. Just don't bury it as it will sour. Very cheap @~$12 for a 50lb bag, the problem being storage as it's hard to find in smaller amounts. The worms love it and it's usually gone in a couple of days. It's like fast food for them.

Wet


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## Javadog (Jan 27, 2017)

Thanks for the time!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 27, 2017)

Wetdog said:


> I quit using eggshells some years ago when the wife complained, plus found 'crunched' shell bits 3 years later in the bins. I always add some active bedding back to a fresh bin when I harvest. Put some in a bucket to put the seperated out worms in till the fresh bedding is in the harvested bin.
> 
> Now, I just add pulverized dolo or calcitic lime to the bedding, a peat/perlite/lime mix made in advance. It's cheap, easy, and keeps the wife happy. YMMV
> 
> ...


YES! when i first got my worm bin i think it was 2/3s egg shells, i hated sorting those big bits of shell out and vowed never again (hence all the grinding) (-;


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## calliandra (Jan 27, 2017)

Wetdog said:


> I quit using eggshells some years ago when the wife complained, plus found 'crunched' shell bits 3 years later in the bins. I always add some active bedding back to a fresh bin when I harvest. Put some in a bucket to put the seperated out worms in till the fresh bedding is in the harvested bin.
> 
> Now, I just add pulverized dolo or calcitic lime to the bedding, a peat/perlite/lime mix made in advance. It's cheap, easy, and keeps the wife happy. YMMV
> 
> ...


Hm well that's a bit of a damper, I was hoping with eggshells I could become self-sufficient in the calcium corner. 
OTOH the eggshells I leave unpulverized are meant to stay around for longer as aeration in my soils, so having those still around in 3 years wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing... plus, I don't have a complaining wife 

So do you think I could run into trouble from any other perspective if I just continue on my chosen eggshell path?


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## Wetdog (Jan 28, 2017)

It all depends on "mesh size", that is, how finely they are ground. Same deal with limestone or oyster shells. You can make buildings and stuff out of limestone. There are oyster shell mounds in Fl that are estimated to be thousands of years old, etc., etc.

But grind it up to the consistancy of flour (mesh size = surface area), and you have stuff that can react with the soil/microbes/roots and get utilized. Same with eggshells. In larger chunks, like just crunching with your hand, they won't break down for years. Grind them to dust and they will break down in fairly short order, like weeks or months.

For me (I'm 6, it just wasn't worth the effort, or, listening to the wife, since she did most of the saving part, when I could snag a 40lb bag of dolo for $4.50. Not that it wouldn't work, it was just far easier and less ya ya to buy the lime.

I'm just happy she saves the grounds when she makes coffee and learned long ago when she says a can is full, to get it out of her kitchen RIGHT THEN and bring her a fresh empty.

Wet


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 28, 2017)

My wife loooooooves my piles of egg shells being left in the kitchen..... hahahaha


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## ShLUbY (Jan 28, 2017)

Wetdog said:


> It all depends on "mesh size", that is, how finely they are ground. Same deal with limestone or oyster shells. You can make buildings and stuff out of limestone. There are oyster shell mounds in Fl that are estimated to be thousands of years old, etc., etc.
> 
> But grind it up to the consistancy of flour (mesh size = surface area), and you have stuff that can react with the soil/microbes/roots and get utilized. Same with eggshells. In larger chunks, like just crunching with your hand, they won't break down for years. Grind them to dust and they will break down in fairly short order, like weeks or months.
> 
> ...


you're a good man Wet. all about picking battles right?


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## calliandra (Jan 28, 2017)

Wetdog said:


> It all depends on "mesh size", that is, how finely they are ground. Same deal with limestone or oyster shells. You can make buildings and stuff out of limestone. There are oyster shell mounds in Fl that are estimated to be thousands of years old, etc., etc.
> 
> But grind it up to the consistancy of flour (mesh size = surface area), and you have stuff that can react with the soil/microbes/roots and get utilized. Same with eggshells. In larger chunks, like just crunching with your hand, they won't break down for years. Grind them to dust and they will break down in fairly short order, like weeks or months.
> 
> ...


Ah thank you for the insight! Then I'll just be a tad more exacting in future regarding the grinding (nods to @meangreengrowinmachine  ) ... and add less at a time too, just a sprinkling, I don't know what happens when a soil is overladen with calcium but figuring it's wiser to strive for balance and never find out haha


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## ShLUbY (Jan 28, 2017)

Too much calcium can make your soil pH too high (but if using peat moss i would bet this would be hard to do for how slow egg shells seem to break down). too high of a pH can lead to unavailability of phosphates (into the 8.0-8.5ph range) and can also contribute to certain trace minerals to become unavailable for uptake as well (boron, copper, zinc, Mg and some others). 

if you want to grow potatoes and berries then too much Ca is definitely bad as these plants prefer a sour soil (fairly acidic 6.0>)

but like you said, a sprinkle here and there aint gonna hurt a thing imo. i just added some to my compost bin, and my worm bin last week. the worms are going nuts. i can't believe how much casting is in there already.....


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## ShLUbY (Jan 28, 2017)

This is 3 weeks into the worm bin from scratch.....

 

they are working this shiz fast!


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## calliandra (Jan 29, 2017)

I think my wornbin is getting close to harvest, so I threw a handful of neem onto the surface to hopefully disgust the fungus gnats and maybe have less of them in my wormcasts.
Two days later, it looks like instead, the neem caused an explosion in the population of those little white worms some people call nematodes... it's a bit warm there too (which is what got me looking under the surface).


I already had these in my bin previously, but haven't seen such direct population growth after the addition of anything to now.
Amazing enough to share here, and ask if you guys have also noticed this, and whether there is anything to watchout for in this situation.

Also, now I'm not sure whether to just give them another feed and forget harvesting, or whether I can still go ahead and start the new bin tier, perhaps adding this very active layer in as a starter so only the riper stuff stays in the bottom tier for harvest when the worms have moved out?

I will be needing the wormcasts in a week, to get my veggie seedlings started, so any ideas on how to best proceed from here is welcome!
I've been wanting to check on the microherd in there too but alas..


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 29, 2017)

I don't think those white worms.are nemotoads...they are microscopic... what you are seeing are your worms reproducing! That means they are doing great! As far as harvesting castings.. I take my whole bin and divide it between each of those bin layers you are talking about...I then take plastic or something and lay it down and add a banana peal or two... set the divider with holess on top and that add a light to the very top to push the worms down... keeping taking castingso from the top as the worms move down... take out the big pieces that worms haven't ate yet.. it takes a bit but it works great!


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## DonBrennon (Jan 29, 2017)

calliandra said:


> I think my wornbin is getting close to harvest, so I threw a handful of neem onto the surface to hopefully disgust the fungus gnats and maybe have less of them in my wormcasts.
> Two days later, it looks like instead, the neem caused an explosion in the population of those little white worms some people call nematodes... it's a bit warm there too (which is what got me looking under the surface).
> View attachment 3887775
> 
> ...





meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I don't think those white worms.are nemotoads...they are microscopic... what you are seeing are your worms reproducing! That means they are doing great! As far as harvesting castings.. I take my whole bin and divide it between each of those bin layers you are talking about...I then take plastic or something and lay it down and add a banana peal or two... set the divider with holess on top and that add a light to the very top to push the worms down... keeping taking castingso from the top as the worms move down... take out the big pieces that worms haven't ate yet.. it takes a bit but it works great!


Sorry for being a 'smart arse', but ya both wrong, LOL. They're 'Pot Worms', (nothing to do with the canna term 'pot'). They're an indication of acidic or anaerobic conditions, they're not a problem in themselves, but do indicate conditions which aren't ideal for your composting worms.
http://lasvegasworms.com/pot-worms-worm-composting-bin/
http://www.wormfarmingsecrets.com/worm-pests-predators/white-worms-pot-worms-in-worm-composting/


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## calliandra (Jan 29, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I don't think those white worms.are nemotoads...they are microscopic... what you are seeing are your worms reproducing! That means they are doing great!


Ah I just tossed my plans for the day out the window and went to find out what these worms are instead 
My worms are very happy and reproducing like crazy, but even at that size they are colored.

These are *white worms* aka *pot worms*: https://redwormcomposting.com/worm-composting/ive-got-white-worms/
and belong to the family of the *Enchytraeidae *- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enchytraeidae
Some people even breed them into their bins on purpose: http://lasvegasworms.com/pot-worms-worm-composting-bin/

The only thing that bothers me is that apparently they produce even finer castings, since that is something thats becoming a problem in my pots as is...
But I'm not fazed by the acidity-indicating aspect of their presence, as it was clearly the neem, not the general environment in the bin, that brought them on in these masses.



meangreengrowinmachine said:


> As far as harvesting castings.. I take my whole bin and divide it between each of those bin layers you are talking about...I then take plastic or something and lay it down and add a banana peal or two... set the divider with holess on top and that add a light to the very top to push the worms down... keeping taking castingso from the top as the worms move down... take out the big pieces that worms haven't ate yet.. it takes a bit but it works great!


interesting! Idon't quite get what the plastic is good for though? won't it preven the worms from digging down into the lower tiers?


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## calliandra (Jan 29, 2017)

DonBrennon said:


> Sorry for being a 'smart arse', but ya both wrong, LOL. They're 'Pot Worms', (nothing to do with the canna term 'pot'). They're an indication of acidic or anaerobic conditions, they're not a problem in themselves, but do indicate conditions which aren't ideal for your composting worms.
> http://lasvegasworms.com/pot-worms-worm-composting-bin/
> http://www.wormfarmingsecrets.com/worm-pests-predators/white-worms-pot-worms-in-worm-composting/


lmao thank you and a sunny sunday to you! 
oh and I never said they _were _nematodes, just that some people call them that 
gotta save my honor as a nematode-watcher here!


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## DonBrennon (Jan 29, 2017)

calliandra said:


> lmao thank you and a sunny sunday to you!


............and you. Seems, I beat you to your 'post' by a minute, LOL. Sorry for stealing your thunder.

I've had those ever since I started a worm bin, they're in all my containers too. I was worried about them at first, but I actually like the diversity, they must be bringing different micro-organisms to the table than the other worms. It's a 'War zone' down there and the more diverse the soldiers, the better, IMHO


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## Nugachino (Jan 29, 2017)

Glad I stumbled upon this thread. I've been wanting to start a proper compost bin for a while now. I don't see the point in wasting cash on synthetic nutrients. Not when you can get a bunch of worms to make some potent poop juice from your kitchen scraps and garden weeds.

This'll help both my gardens.


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## calliandra (Jan 29, 2017)

DonBrennon said:


> ............and you. Seems, I beat you to your 'post' by a minute, LOL. Sorry for stealing your thunder.
> 
> I've had those ever since I started a worm bin, they're in all my containers too. I was worried about them at first, but I actually like the diversity, they must be bringing different micro-organisms to the table than the other worms. It's a 'War zone' down there and the more diverse the soldiers, the better, IMHO


oh not at all, great minds and all that 
And you know I absolutely agree regarding diversity!

Actually, seeing these potworms spring up at the neem like that, and neem being used vs. fungus gnats, got me thinking, these worms are still big enough to be able to munch up fungus gnat larvae... because that's all the worry with BT or even the SF nematodes (for me at least): will they ever find each other?!
In those masses and with their voraciousness, no worries on that account with the potworms!


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## ShLUbY (Jan 29, 2017)

Nugachino said:


> Glad I stumbled upon this thread. I've been wanting to start a proper compost bin for a while now. I don't see the point in wasting cash on synthetic nutrients. Not when you can get a bunch of worms to make some potent poop juice from your kitchen scraps and garden weeds.
> 
> This'll help both my gardens.


lots of good tricks here in the organic section if you spend time here and read! Glad you found something you like!


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Jan 29, 2017)

calliandra said:


> Ah I just tossed my plans for the day out the window and went to find out what these worms are instead
> My worms are very happy and reproducing like crazy, but even at that size they are colored.
> 
> These are *white worms* aka *pot worms*: https://redwormcomposting.com/worm-composting/ive-got-white-worms/
> ...


I just lay the plastic down to catch the worms .. don't need it just makea it easy to scoop them into the new bin


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## calliandra (Jan 29, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> I just lay the plastic down to catch the worms .. don't need it just makea it easy to scoop them into the new bin


ah ok gotcha!
thanks for sorting me there, I was stacking the tiers back up in my head  haha


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## NWHeadies (Feb 1, 2017)

So my worms arrived yesterday and were placed in my 2 20 gallon smart pots that will be there new homes. Im having a hard time leaving the shredded paper alone and not looking at them like a kid on christmas. I did feel like my shipment was possibly very short on worms it felt like maybe only half as many as it should have been. But hopefully they multiply and this will not be a problem.


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## ShLUbY (Feb 1, 2017)

NWHeadies said:


> So my worms arrived yesterday and were placed in my 2 20 gallon smart pots that will be there new homes. Im having a hard time leaving the shredded paper alone and not looking at them like a kid on christmas. I did feel like my shipment was possibly very short on worms it felt like maybe only half as many as it should have been. But hopefully they multiply and this will not be a problem.


they multiply every 90 days or so. I know what you mean trying to leave them be haha, i was the same way. I had compost and food scraps in the bin for a few days before they arrived so for a bit they were all just hanging out in the layers where that stuff was at. once i started putting stop on the surface of the bedding i could go and peel back the panda film and see them going to town. they're awesome! Good luck with the bin!


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## NWHeadies (Feb 1, 2017)

Thanks I know im months down the road but i cant wait for home made vermicompost amended with my own recipe. So far they are loving malted barley powder. I also saw some fast moving black mites they are beneficial im assuming.


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## ShLUbY (Feb 1, 2017)

NWHeadies said:


> Thanks I know im months down the road but i cant wait for home made vermicompost amended with my own recipe. So far they are loving malted barley powder. I also saw some fast moving black mites they are beneficial im assuming.


yeah when i got my worms, within a week i saw evidence of a bunch of other little guys that came along with them. Definitely was liking the extra diversity to the environment.


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## calliandra (Feb 1, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> they multiply every 90 days or so. I know what you mean trying to leave them be haha, i was the same way. I had compost and food scraps in the bin for a few days before they arrived so for a bit they were all just hanging out in the layers where that stuff was at. once i started putting stop on the surface of the bedding i could go and peel back the panda film and see them going to town. they're awesome! Good luck with the bin!


panda film??  please explain?

My first batch has been going for 4 months, but turnover is getting faster and faster as the worms multiply - and it seems they're doing so constantly, I see all sizes of worms in there all the time now 
IT's gone from this 
to this


Those zucchini sprouts, I pulled them a week ago, the one on the right is even growing its roots into the air lol
I may save it, seeing it refuses to die like that haha
Getting harvested starting today.
Wondering whether I should pile the compost up on one side of the bin so the worms have an easier time getting upstairs to the new layer?
Cheers!


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## NWHeadies (Feb 2, 2017)

How often should i be adding water to my smart pot worm bins if at all? I know they need some but i don't want to drown them either.


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## Javadog (Feb 2, 2017)

I am thinking that moist foods will generally be better than direct watering, but
look forward to the consensus.


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## NWHeadies (Feb 2, 2017)

It seems pretty dry but i will LITFA until i figure out better


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## Javadog (Feb 2, 2017)

If it is literally dry to the touch, then spraying it would be fine, I am sure.

Too much water cannot be removed outright....probably why I am cautious.


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## ShLUbY (Feb 2, 2017)

NWHeadies said:


> How often should i be adding water to my smart pot worm bins if at all? I know they need some but i don't want to drown them either.


the medium should be to the moisture of a very wrung out sponge. I generally lift my bin to see what the weight is feeling like. also, keeping a piece of plastic/cardboard/panda film over the surface will help slow evap from the bedding. but yeah as Java said, adding the scraps will help keep moisture in check, but sometimes spraying is necessary (esp with a smart pot i would imagine). or even just watering around the edges of the pot will help since they dry quickly from air flow.

there is no _schedule_ to something like that; only _necessity. _ Hope that helps.


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## calliandra (Feb 2, 2017)

NWHeadies said:


> How often should i be adding water to my smart pot worm bins if at all? I know they need some but i don't want to drown them either.





Javadog said:


> I am thinking that moist foods will generally be better than direct watering, but
> look forward to the consensus.


yeah I agree Javadog, I even premoisen my bedding -everything that goes in is at about 50% humidity. That way, it's nicely spread out and you don't get runoff


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## NWHeadies (Feb 2, 2017)

slightly moist got it not wet it sounds like its too dry then because the medium i added a lot of dry powders and coffee etc. I sprayed the shredded paper but that drys out quickly so maybe i will spray the surface slightly underneath the bedding.


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## calliandra (Feb 2, 2017)

NWHeadies said:


> got ya so like a freshly watered medium almost?


that sounds too wet. 50% is when you pick up the stuff and when you squeeze it between your fingers (careful not to get a worm in there  ) just a little bit of water appear, maybe a drop falls, but not muc more
hope that's clearer - erm, if you meant me that is lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 2, 2017)

I never add water ... keeps the worms by their food


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## NWHeadies (Feb 2, 2017)

Well as long as i dont get it wet i think things will balance themselfves out i will add a little moisture if im adding dry food like cofee grounds and leave it be for a while see what happens
I notice they dont go for the bananas yet but that must be because there is no mold on them yet.


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## calliandra (Feb 2, 2017)

NWHeadies said:


> Well as long as i dont get it wet i think things will balance themselfves out i will add a little moisture if im adding dry food like cofee grounds and leave it be for a while see what happens
> I notice they dont go for the bananas yet but that must be because there is no mold on them yet.


what could also help is if you chop up your fruit and veggie scraps in the blender with water. You can strain the excess, add in the coffee grounds and whatnot, and then add that goo to your bin. That also adds moisture to your bin in a even way


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## Javadog (Feb 2, 2017)

I love to give them melon rinds. It is like their refreshment.


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## Wetdog (Feb 2, 2017)

NWHeadies said:


> Well as long as i dont get it wet i think things will balance themselfves out i will add a little moisture if im adding dry food like cofee grounds and leave it be for a while see what happens
> I notice they dont go for the bananas yet but that must be because there is no mold on them yet.


How are coffee grounds dry? A real bitch to remoisten dry grounds. It really helps to put the used grounds in an empty coffee jug to keep them moist. Adding a chunk of over ripe fruit also helps to get the mold going while the jug is filling up. Black banana's, brown apples, soft grapes, you get the idea. Even still, the grounds and filters (yeah, add them too), can sit for close to a month till it gets *ripe* and the worms swarm it all at once.

Worms prefer right at 80% moisture content in their bedding and never cared much for smart pots trying to maintain this. Pretty much the opposite with the rubbermaid totes I use, but you learn to balance things out. Been running the totes for a bit over 7 years now.

I know it's hard when you first start out, but I seldom open my bins more than every 2 weeks and usually closer to a month. DON'T go digging in the bedding to check on them, they really like to be left alone to eat and make baby worms.

It's easy, once you sorta learn to forget about them.

Wet


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 2, 2017)

worm bins are another thing that loves neglect lol .. well for a while ... give them their food and then leave them the F alone lol


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## calliandra (Feb 2, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> worm bins are another thing that loves neglect lol .. well for a while ... give them their food and then leave them the F alone lol


Whereby, as a beginner, I do like to check on it the first days after feeding, just in case it starts heating up too much, especially when I know I may have overdone it with something hi-N


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## TheEagerBeaver (Feb 3, 2017)

calliandra said:


> Whereby, as a beginner, I do like to check on it the first days after feeding, just in case it starts heating up too much, especially when I know I may have overdone it with something hi-N



In that case, just stick a soil thermometer in there so you don't disturb them too much.


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## calliandra (Feb 3, 2017)

TheEagerBeaver said:


> In that case, just stick a soil thermometer in there so you don't disturb them too much.


lol nah, that would be overkill  Lifting the lid and looking and perhaps putting myhand near the surface is enough to know


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## Wetdog (Feb 3, 2017)

calliandra said:


> Whereby, as a beginner, I do like to check on it the first days after feeding, just in case it starts heating up too much, especially when I know I may have overdone it with something hi-N


Pretty much with anything, if you can't see the bedding you've added too much with the topdress.

Wet


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## ShLUbY (Feb 3, 2017)

Wetdog said:


> Pretty much with anything, if you can't see the bedding you've added too much with the topdress.
> 
> Wet


i've tried to follow the rule *only "feed" on one side* so they have somewhere to retreat if they wish  so i've been alternating the sides. this weekend i don't even think im going to "feed" them


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## Wetdog (Feb 3, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> i've tried to follow the rule *only "feed" on one side* so they have somewhere to retreat if they wish  so i've been alternating the sides. this weekend i don't even think im going to "feed" them


That's a good technique to follow. But, just how often are you feeding them?

Even in the summer when the bins are really cranking, it's seldom more often than every couple of weeks and in the winter it's more like a month to 6 weeks. Max temps are 76* and 52* min in the basement.

It also depends on the food. Some stuff takes months to fully decompose and I've found worms in harvested VC months later actually thriving. I mean, you expect some, but not where you could start another bin population. These were harvested in Aug and the tote not opened/checked till a week or so ago. What the hell have they been eating for 4-5 months? Was a real WTF?, but in a good way. Educational too.

Wet


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## ShLUbY (Feb 3, 2017)

Wetdog said:


> That's a good technique to follow. But, just how often are you feeding them?
> 
> Even in the summer when the bins are really cranking, it's seldom more often than every couple of weeks and in the winter it's more like a month to 6 weeks. Max temps are 76* and 52* min in the basement.
> 
> ...


just on the weekends when i come home. i throw a little compost down, maybe some coffee grounds, and whatever greens from my fridge that may not be looking so hot. potato and carrot skins as well. stuff that breaks down quickly or is already breaking down.

i definitely think i could feed less though. the first weekend i dont think i put anything in there because i had compost and food scraps in the bin before they even arrived. only been at it 4 wks now lol


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 3, 2017)

Wetdog said:


> That's a good technique to follow. But, just how often are you feeding them?
> 
> Even in the summer when the bins are really cranking, it's seldom more often than every couple of weeks and in the winter it's more like a month to 6 weeks. Max temps are 76* and 52* min in the basement.
> 
> ...


hahaha i had this same thing happen to me recently... open the bin thats been closed for months and is FULL of castings and worms all scramble for cover.. I had the same reaction.. as you


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## Fastslappy (Feb 3, 2017)

I've read they recycle the bin when u quit feeding ,soo it's actually best stave every once in while so they do recycle


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## Nugachino (Feb 4, 2017)

Heh. I chucked everything from my super soil bag and bokashi bin into a large tub. Gave it a good mix through. Then dug a big pit in the middle to add a box of 1000 worms. Then finished up by covering it with a damp layer of fibrous cloth.

I checked on it today. And a few worms were poking their heads out from under the cloth.

Can't wait to see how good the soil is after they've dug through it for a couple months. Should be super-mega-dooper soil by that time.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 4, 2017)

Nugachino said:


> Heh. I chucked everything from my super soil bag and bokashi bin into a large tub. Gave it a good mix through. Then dug a big pit in the middle to add a box of 1000 worms. Then finished up by covering it with a damp layer of fibrous cloth.
> 
> I checked on it today. And a few worms were poking their heads out from under the cloth.
> 
> Can't wait to see how good the soil is after they've dug through it for a couple months. Should be super-mega-dooper soil by that time.


Well you will end up with some great worm castings for sure...I don't know about a whole soil... but great castings for sure!


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## Nugachino (Feb 4, 2017)

Yeah I'm kinda sporadic like that. Just chucked in whatever I thought would work. They don't seem to be hating it. So it can't be that bad. Could be too early to tell though.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Feb 4, 2017)

As long as there are no salt based nutes I'm sure they will love it!


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## Nugachino (Feb 4, 2017)

Nah. I chose soil that was blank canvas. It's an improvised mixed recipe from a few different super soils. It's missing the oyster and crustacean shells though. Couldn't find any. So I added more powdered egg shells.

The only other things it has in it are: Epsom salts, dolomite lime, micro nutrients and fish + kelp & seaweed bio booster.


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## ShLUbY (Feb 12, 2017)

so i made a fungal dom tea over the last couple days with couple tbsp of canna meal, kelp meal, and alfalfa meal, fish hydro, and bioag humic. after it was done brewing i strained out the solids, wrung them dry and put them in the worm bin. today when i looked in the bin.... the worms were FEASTING on the stuff. it was awesome!


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## Nugachino (Feb 12, 2017)

Damn bro. That's awesome. Guess I got to get my arse down to a local nursery. Try and get some good good to throw in my bin.


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## Mohican (Feb 13, 2017)

I feed mine almost every day. They are amazing little eaters.


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## ShLUbY (Feb 13, 2017)

Mohican said:


> I feed mine almost every day. They are amazing little eaters.


i can't wait til i have enough to do that! I have a stockpile of stuff in the freezer for them lol. i should have started with more than 1000 but i just wanted to make sure I got it down before I went crazy! maybe i should order a couple thousand more.... hmmmmmmmm


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## Fastslappy (Feb 13, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> i can't wait til i have enough to do that! I have a stockpile of stuff in the freezer for them lol. i should have started with more than 1000 but i just wanted to make sure I got it down before I went crazy! maybe i should order a couple thousand more.... hmmmmmmmm


I collect some every rain . I find the locals more vigorous than the red wiggerls but the wiggers stay low it seems 
BUT I can't tell the difference anymore , 3 bins working one is near full 2 started last fall 
my comfrey crown slivers turned out great 32 in 3 gal all with 12" leaves & some are blooming 
over wintering in the greenhouse atm waiting on spring I planted the crown cuts end of November


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## ShLUbY (Feb 13, 2017)

Fastslappy said:


> I collect some every rain . I find the locals more vigorous than the red wiggerls but the wiggers stay low it seems
> BUT I can't tell the difference anymore , 3 bins working one is near full 2 started last fall
> my comfrey crown slivers turned out great 32 in 3 gal all with 12" leaves & some are blooming
> over wintering in the greenhouse atm waiting on spring I planted the crown cuts end of November


nice. i just got my first comfrey started a week ago or so, had a root delivered. it's started producing roots already which is awesome. just waiting to see that green emerge  lookin to get a good patch going this year. i'm also gonna be doing a lot of herb borage this year too (another really beneficial plant) and harvesting a fuck ton of nettles and drying them. they grow like crazy near where i live. river valleys full of them. I'll also be harvesting as many dandelion leaves from my yard as possible and drying them up too. gotta love free stuff!


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## Vnsmkr (Feb 13, 2017)

Yeah Mr Bennon  sent me some comfrey and borage last year so I have some going here too, comfrey is fkn awesome, that shit melts into compost so fast its not even funny. Hell you can topdress with green leaves and in a week they will be into the soil....


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## Fastslappy (Feb 14, 2017)

Nettles tear me up that sting overwhelmingly more potent to me than others


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## ShLUbY (Feb 14, 2017)

Fastslappy said:


> Nettles tear me up that sting overwhelmingly more potent to me than others


it's a mind game. just gotta ignore the sting lol. wear gloves, long sleeves and thick pants if you go harvesting!


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## Wetdog (Feb 14, 2017)

Fastslappy said:


> Nettles tear me up that sting overwhelmingly more potent to me than others


REALLY!!

Many years in landscaping/maintenance have left me very sensitive to both stings and sap.

You would think resistance would grow, but just the opposite.

The comfrey fills my needs quite nicely thankyouverymuch.

Wet


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## Fastslappy (Feb 14, 2017)

Not worth the pain with me it lasts days ,I kill it as soon as I see


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## Jaybodankly (Feb 24, 2017)

With the local nettles round here. A day later you will be like WTF. Do I have nerve damage in my fingertips?


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## ShLUbY (Feb 25, 2017)

Jaybodankly said:


> With the local nettles round here. A day later you will be like WTF. Do I have nerve damage in my fingertips?


hahah yea same here. i've experienced some lingering tingling (  ) with the nettles the day after as well


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## Mohican (Feb 25, 2017)

Plant toxin sensitivity increases with each exposure.
I did an informal survey at the BBQ and All of the growers experienced rashes when they made contact with their plants!


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## ShLUbY (Apr 14, 2017)

Not bad for my first time. 1000 worms, 3 months of action. Here is the first haul, probably right around 5 gal! not too shabby. i'm letting them air out a bit before putting them in a bin/bag.


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## DonTesla (Apr 14, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> Not bad for my first time. 1000 worms, 3 months of action. Here is the first haul, probably right around 5 gal! not too shabby. i'm letting them air out a bit before putting them in a bin/bag.View attachment 3924875 View attachment 3924878


Amazing for your first time, never mind!!! Looking super good


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## ShLUbY (Apr 14, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> Amazing for your first time, never mind!!! Looking super good


thanks man that means alot coming from you!


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## Wetdog (Apr 15, 2017)

Amazing is a good descriptor. First harvests usually look like ... a first harvest. That VC looks really dialed in. Good job!

Got any plans to expand to a second bin? Or, let the population increase a bit more first?

Wet


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## ShLUbY (Apr 15, 2017)

Wetdog said:


> Amazing is a good descriptor. First harvests usually look like ... a first harvest. That VC looks really dialed in. Good job!
> 
> Got any plans to expand to a second bin? Or, let the population increase a bit more first?
> 
> Wet


Thank you very much, Wet! yeah i'm going to split after i run this bin one more time and just make sure everything is good a second time through. it's amazing how little attention they really require. i don't think i "fed" them a thing the last three weeks so they had some freezer mash waiting in the new bin. Looking forward to the next haul and i'm hoping that the population has increased a lil bit and maybe i can get them to go through this bin in 10 weeks or so...

overall... very very happy with the first run. i pretty much never had to add water to the bin, and it killed it from the start. looking for a repeat!


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## Wetdog (Apr 16, 2017)

To kick things up a notch, source some chicken *laying mash.* Picked this little tidbit up from bait worm farmers, who use it to really fatten the worms up. It also has the happy side effect of increasing cocoon production just like it does with increasing chicken egg production.

The only hard part is finding it in less than 50lb bags. The only place in town that sells small amounts charges $1/lb, but will stress to mention that a 50lb bag is only $12. Much cheaper, but you do need something airtight to store it in, like 5gal buckets with lids. Using a handful just once or twice a week, sprinkled on top of the bedding (never bury it), 50lbs lasts a looooong time.

A win-win, because you end up with fat worms that reproduce like crazy. Something to consider.

Waiting for the second run to divide the bin works well, VOE there. There is a much better balance of adults, juveniles, and cocoons and everything seems to go faster, both the recovery of the original bin and the one just started. I've tried it both ways and waiting works better.


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## DonTesla (Apr 17, 2017)

I'd just ask if and where the blood / *bone meal* in there is from cause bone meal is a common component to it. Its great to feed worms a sand or digestive aid but bone meal is something I personally avoid in the worms diet. All meals infact I prefer to send to the thermophilic natural compost where heats can rise and not threaten exploding worm populations, as babies are more sensitive to conditions!

and also clarify its its *chick starter mash* or laying mash. Calcium is usually the main difference here, and that said, its always good to know the source of calcium, I personally would opt for cleaner greener calcium like kale or spinach fed to the worms but to each their own. Whether medical or not I would go clean as possible.

My favourite thing to spark insane* worm breeding is tossing in *halved avocados,* its also high in mains and enzymes and supports a lot of life with all the vitamins and minerals. I feed them six shells a week per bin and they breed like crayyyyzy in them all 

The only other thing to perhaps look out for is are you gonna get pellets, crumble or *true mash* aka the cornmeal consistency. I'd say the best is the latter (cornmeal) for worms but for chickens I think pellets is easier on them.

Happy vermiposting, amigos


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## Fastslappy (Apr 17, 2017)

I grate my avocado pits add to my bins , as i eat allot of avos 
they have a worm frenzy over that stuff


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## Fastslappy (Apr 17, 2017)

corn meal , masa , coconut flour , all good feeds i bait with these as well 
my last comfrey feed i coated the chopped comfrey with coconut flour . i've got a 10 gal tote that a 1/2 yr old 
i quit feeding it it 2 weeks ago & bait it on top to move worms over to newer bins , there a slight amount of material not yet eaten
up about 2" deep
i add oyster flour to the bins every once in while as well


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## Javadog (Apr 17, 2017)

Nice haul Shluby!


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## Wetdog (Apr 18, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> I'd just ask if and where the blood / *bone meal* in there is from cause bone meal is a common component to it. Its great to feed worms a sand or digestive aid but bone meal is something I personally avoid in the worms diet. All meals infact I prefer to send to the thermophilic natural compost where heats can rise and not threaten exploding worm populations, as babies are more sensitive to conditions!
> 
> and also clarify its its *chick starter mash* or laying mash. Calcium is usually the main difference here, and that said, its always good to know the source of calcium, I personally would opt for cleaner greener calcium like kale or spinach fed to the worms but to each their own. Whether medical or not I would go clean as possible.
> 
> ...


Talked to 2 different bait farmers and both specified the laying mash. This was also some years ago. Mentioned that other chicken foods would work, or ground corn in general like cornmeal, but the laying mash gave the best results..

One grocery store here has Starter mash in the pet food aisle. Not super rural here, but rural enough. LOL

I get the true mash rather than the crumbles or pellets on the same guys recc. Have gotten both crumbles and pellets (both, just 1lb), to try out, but both needed to be pre-moistened and didn't work all that well in the bins. The true mash seldom even needs to be spritzed to start breaking down in the bin.

I really miss my avacados! All you can find up here are those tiny Haas things that are a joke to anyone from SoFl. Had a Choquett in my front yard that gave 3-5lb fruits and 1/2 of one would make a decent meal just eating it out of the shell. The little ones do make better guac though. They are like $1.50 each here and not even fist sized. It's crazy!


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## DonTesla (Apr 19, 2017)

Wetdog said:


> Talked to 2 different bait farmers and both specified the laying mash. This was also some years ago. Mentioned that other chicken foods would work, or ground corn in general like cornmeal, but the laying mash gave the best results..
> 
> One grocery store here has Starter mash in the pet food aisle. Not super rural here, but rural enough. LOL
> 
> ...


We jump on them when we see them five for $4 but normally they're about 1.50 each as well! Sometimes $2!!!! 

But we eat less meat now as you can see !!


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## calliandra (Apr 20, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> My favourite thing to spark insane* worm breeding is tossing in *halved avocados,* its also high in mains and enzymes and supports a lot of life with all the vitamins and minerals. I feed them six shells a week per bin and they breed like crayyyyzy in them all


What a coincidence! When I found an avocado that had gotten lost in the fridge, of course I had to try it out immediately 

After 12 hours

 

@Wetdog, I think of you every time I mess with my worms now, you're so right about leaving them in peace haha - my excuse is I'm still getting to know them? Aaand I do apologize too! 

 
 
Sometimes, the amount of whiteworms that turn up in my bin make me pensive, but when I see them mingling like they are here, I stop worrying.

Cheers!


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## Rasta Roy (Apr 20, 2017)

Love seeing all that sweet worm love! Happy 420 to everybody smoking worm grown smoke today!


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## DonTesla (Apr 21, 2017)

calliandra said:


> What a coincidence! When I found an avocado that had gotten lost in the fridge, of course I had to try it out immediately
> 
> After 12 hours
> 
> ...


Way to start the party @calliandra !!!


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## Wetdog (Apr 22, 2017)

calliandra said:


> What a coincidence! When I found an avocado that had gotten lost in the fridge, of course I had to try it out immediately
> 
> After 12 hours
> 
> ...


After 2 or 3 days, or when that 'cado is about 3/4 gone, you can scoop under it and easily grab 1k of worms in your hand. It gets to be solid worms for 3" or so down. Providing of course, you have the population.

I use it a lot to start new bins, pulling most of the worms out of a bin to be harvested or, if I want a good chunk of worms somewhere like the garden, flower bed, or .....

Take a look, you'll see.


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## Wetdog (Apr 22, 2017)

*Started a couple Seasonal *Batching* Bins 
*
The *batching* concept is more or less worms in a limited, very rich bedding and working that bedding only with no further inputs for 3 months or so. Then, it's used as is, with little to no harvesting. I do usually lure/trap some using melon rinds and return them to other bins, but most go with the VC.

Made ~15 gallons of a very rich bedding that required a cook. This was nothing like my normal bedding mix, that is pretty neutral. It was:

Peat moss; ~10 gallons, expanded and screened
Perlite; ~3 gallons
Lime; healthy 2cups of powdered dolomite
Play sand; ~1 1/2 cups (several handfuls)
Soy meal; healthy 2 cups
Neem cake; 1 cup
Kelp meal; 1 cup
Alfalfa cubes (alfalfa hay formed into ~2" cubes); coffee jug full with some hot tap water to soak
Black Kow composted manure; coffee jug full, plus some more

Mixed all this well and moistened. Made more moist than say a fresh soil mix, but not soggy. Left it in the wheelbarrow till the Santa's beard showed up, then mixed some more and transfered to 5gal buckets (with drainage), and set outside for a couple weeks to cook.

Am using 10gal Rubbermaid totes for this and ~3 gallons of this bedding fills them just under halfway. This is also the amount mentioned when I read about it years ago. The totes also have drainage holes.

On top of the bedding I also added a coffee jug of grounds to each along with some frozen grapes and banana peels for a quick nosh/microbe action, for the worms. The worms haven't been added yet.

Once the grapes and peels were covered in fuzz (about 3 days), I put some melon rinds in a seriously overcrowded bin to lure and trap some. Ended up adding easily over 1k of worms to each bin, 2 big handfuls of solid worms in each. Also added a couple handfuls of active bedding to each bin for the established microbes. Ended up being about a week after the bedding was first put in the bins and about a month after the bedding was first mixed.

That is it AFA feeding goes, although I may add some comfrey leaves depending on how the plants grow. They just recently came out of dormancy. IDK

The concept is similar to letting worms 'work over' finished, or, nearly finished compost, but with richer inputs and working just on the initial amount. In this case 3 gallons or so.

I'm figuring on it being ready late July/early August, right about the time the summer heat breaks (somewhat), and the plant growth picks up again outside. The fresh VC should provide a boost for everything.

We'll see how it goes.

Wet


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## DonTesla (Apr 22, 2017)

Fair bit of extra work but..the batching would be great for an indoor cat in a condo who can't access outside or has no space to make amended compost. 

I just like to "starve" or buffer my castings for a few weeks before using .. Let them recycle and refine everything through- Very good idea! And everyone should add some chemical free-sand to their bins.. Excellent digestive aid

Commercial cow products are becoming GMO in my opinion as dairy farms are insanely gross overall so and tap water is far from safe from contaminants as well imo, but great idea / little guide for a one stop shop topdress if hand amended compost or compost making is unavailable


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## Chunky Stool (Apr 22, 2017)

What kind of paper do you give your worms? 
I hear that you can shred junk mail and give them that, but is it really organic? 
Coffee filters seem OK...


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## Wetdog (Apr 23, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> What kind of paper do you give your worms?
> I hear that you can shred junk mail and give them that, but is it really organic?
> Coffee filters seem OK...


Was this directed to me or, DT?

Anyway, I don't use paper at all, except coffee filters, but make a basic peat moss, perlite, lime, bedding. I also add some cardboard every now and then for the worms to lay eggs in.

Of course the paper is organic for our purposes. It's wood pulp and does decompose. Slick, glossy paper is an exception and except for specialty inks (for the glossy paper), they are all soy based now and have been for 30 years or so. I was a printer in another life, and the nasty inks were going out as I came in, in the early 80's.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Apr 23, 2017)

My worms looooove banana peels as much as avacados... i wonder if it has to do with how fast and easyily they break down into things the worms can actually eat. Also i have heard from pro vermiculurists that newspaper and the like contains clay when it breaks down, which worms dont like so i have never used any and have always had great results


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## Chunky Stool (Apr 23, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> My worms looooove banana peels as much as avacados... i wonder if it has to do with how fast and easyily they break down into things the worms can actually eat. Also i have heard from pro vermiculurists that newspaper and the like contains clay when it breaks down, which worms dont like so i have never used any and have always had great results


They definitely like zucchini. My wife froze a bunch that we will never eat, so I've been giving it the worms a little at a time (lots of water, so gotta go slow).


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## Jaybodankly (Apr 23, 2017)

I add cardboard, newspaper, napkins. Give me all that sweet carbon to add to the WC mix.


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## greg nr (Apr 26, 2017)

hey guys, quick question. I have a catch bucket under my worm inn, and it has a really dark liquid in it. Just runnoff from the castings.

Can I use that to feed my plants? Does it need any prep like pumping air through it or adding amendments?

Tx


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## calliandra (Apr 27, 2017)

greg nr said:


> hey guys, quick question. I have a catch bucket under my worm inn, and it has a really dark liquid in it. Just runnoff from the castings.
> 
> Can I use that to feed my plants? Does it need any prep like pumping air through it or adding amendments?
> 
> Tx


I'd say it depends on how it smells.
If it has any sort of smell other than fresh / forest, I wouldn't water pot plants with it, as it'S likely to be full of anaerobic microbes, and you don't want to tip your pots that direction.
Maybe dilute and spread under bushes outside (gotta get rid of it somehow  )

Or yeah you could try and bubble it to tip the microbial balance back into the aerobic.
I've gotten ACTs to tip back (but they weren't far gone, just starting), so that could work.
Not sure it's worth the effort though. 
Probably better to watch your bin's humidity more in future and avoid having runoff in the first place


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## ShLUbY (Apr 29, 2017)

calliandra said:


> I'd say it depends on how it smells.
> If it has any sort of smell other than fresh / forest, I wouldn't water pot plants with it, as it'S likely to be full of anaerobic microbes, and you don't want to tip your pots that direction.
> Maybe dilute and spread under bushes outside (gotta get rid of it somehow  )
> 
> ...


definitely shouldn't be having run off from the worm bin. it's good to have the drainage holes in case there is too much moisture. but it should never be so wet that you have dripping happening. rinsing castings for humic/fulvic acids is one thing, but as Calliandra said, it's probably anaerobic soup and you definitely don't want to be putting those guys in your containers.

today I get to make my first ACT with my homemade VC. sooooo pumped (that was almost a pun!) hahahahaha


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## greg nr (Apr 29, 2017)

ShLUbY said:


> definitely shouldn't be having run off from the worm bin. it's good to have the drainage holes in case there is too much moisture. but it should never be so wet that you have dripping happening. rinsing castings for humic/fulvic acids is one thing, but as Calliandra said, it's probably anaerobic soup and you definitely don't want to be putting those guys in your containers.
> 
> today I get to make my first ACT with my homemade VC. sooooo pumped (that was almost a pun!) hahahahaha


It's a worm inn, not a bin. According to the instructions, you are supposed to get some runoff. It smells fine. I'll try putting an air hose in it and see what happens on some inconsequential plant like a male.


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## calliandra (May 1, 2017)

greg nr said:


> It's a worm inn, not a bin. According to the instructions, you are supposed to get some runoff. It smells fine. I'll try putting an air hose in it and see what happens on some inconsequential plant like a male.


Ah ok - makes sense you need runoff in those, given your worms are basically in a cloth bag, that would probably dry out too much without the addition of more water than in a wooden bin, let alone a plastic one.
It sounds like what you're getting there in that case could be something like a VC-extract, which is a nice thing your inconsequential male will definitely enjoy 
Probably a good idea to not let it sit around for too long, but use as it collects - no need to aerate if it smells good and is used fresh.

I was just wondering the other day how the hell you harvest those bags, without all the VC falling out?!
It has an opening in the bottom, right? How does that work?
Cheers!


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## Rasta Roy (May 1, 2017)

calliandra said:


> Ah ok - makes sense you need runoff in those, given your worms are basically in a cloth bag, that would probably dry out too much without the addition of more water than in a wooden bin, let alone a plastic one.
> It sounds like what you're getting there in that case could be something like a VC-extract, which is a nice thing your inconsequential male will definitely enjoy
> Probably a good idea to not let it sit around for too long, but use as it collects - no need to aerate if it smells good and is used fresh.
> 
> ...


Same question!


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## greg nr (May 1, 2017)

calliandra said:


> Ah ok - makes sense you need runoff in those, given your worms are basically in a cloth bag, that would probably dry out too much without the addition of more water than in a wooden bin, let alone a plastic one.
> It sounds like what you're getting there in that case could be something like a VC-extract, which is a nice thing your inconsequential male will definitely enjoy
> Probably a good idea to not let it sit around for too long, but use as it collects - no need to aerate if it smells good and is used fresh.
> 
> ...


There are a few youtube vids out there, but basically you let the bag dry somewhat and then pull the castings out of the bottom. You have to claw it out. It won't just fall out when you open the draw string. It's a fifo system from the bottom.


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## calliandra (May 1, 2017)

greg nr said:


> There are a few youtube vids out there, but basically you let the bag dry somewhat and then pull the castings out of the bottom. You have to claw it out. It won't just fall out when you open the draw string. It's a fifo system from the bottom.


Ah OK so there is a sort of rhythm to the harvesting, you can't just go, "oh, I need a handful of VC here" and go pull it anytime, which was kind of the expectation somehow created in my head haha 

Sounds like you then need to harvest in small amounts - like before feeding?
Would make sense, scratch bottom, then feed top... but purposely letting the bag dry for a few days before... hm.
Does that in any way resemble your practice/experience? 
Cheers!


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## Fastslappy (May 1, 2017)

calliandra said:


> Ah OK so there is a sort of rhythm to the harvesting, you can't just go, "oh, I need a handful of VC here" and go pull it anytime, which was kind of the expectation somehow created in my head haha
> 
> Sounds like you then need to harvest in small amounts - like before feeding?
> Would make sense, scratch bottom, then feed top... but purposely letting the bag dry for a few days before... hm.
> ...


i use 3 different batches , staggered starting times & the 1st use bin is done material that goes to slightly dry & then a sealed 5 gal bucket for storage till use . i leave cocoons i don't feed for weeks to let them recycle , then i move them as they come to top ,sometimes i screen but most i don't need to . 
i feed comfrey ground avocado pit , neem , oystser shell flour , banana peel , squash , male pot plants 
i only used the colored newsprint non glossy for bedding i use coco as well 
i harvest the locals during the winter rains , the seem better eaters than the red wigglers


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## Chunky Stool (May 24, 2017)

What do you guys do with your worm extract? (The stinky liquid that comes out the bottom.) 
I've just been pouring it on my pile of recycled dirt.


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## Wetdog (May 24, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> What do you guys do with your worm extract? (The stinky liquid that comes out the bottom.)
> I've just been pouring it on my pile of recycled dirt.


That's pretty much what I do.

The goal is pretty much not to have any, but sometimes food is extra wet and yada yada and mostly it sits for months till harvest, at least mine does. Don't like to waste stuff, but damn sure not going to get it near living plants so, on the recycle pile it goes.


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## Nugachino (May 30, 2017)

Is it normal for worm numbers to drop off during winter. I've got a 100L tub with my worms and compostables in there. They were quite numerous during summer. Now, I don't see all that many.

I still find the odd egg. So it's not like they aren't reproducing. And the temps have been between 9-14°c at night.


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## greg nr (May 30, 2017)

Ok, so I asked if I could put the liquor that comes out from my worm inn after I water it on my plants. I took two males that were going to go to the worm bin and tried some out on them. They were preety dry, to the point of drooping. I watered each with the straight liquor. No aeration, no amendments, it wasn't even particularly fresh. Just what was in the collection bucket.

They LOVED it! I tell you, they didn't look this good three days ago......


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## Javadog (May 30, 2017)

Well, there you go! :0)


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## Chunky Stool (May 31, 2017)

greg nr said:


> Ok, so I asked if I could put the liquor that comes out from my worm inn after I water it on my plants. I took two males that were going to go to the worm bin and tried some out on them. They were preety dry, to the point of drooping. I watered each with the straight liquor. No aeration, no amendments, it wasn't even particularly fresh. Just what was in the collection bucket.
> 
> They LOVED it! I tell you, they didn't look this good three days ago......
> 
> View attachment 3951741


So you gave your plants the stinky liquid that comes out the bottom -- without diluting it? 
You are brave! That shit smells *really* bad. Ants always show up when I dump it outside.


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## Chunky Stool (May 31, 2017)

Although I should also mention that the lower levels on my worm tower were too wet, which caused some anaerobic pockets of badness. The worms just said fuck it & moved up to fresher food. 
So the entire batch of soil I just mixed with the stinky castings was used for top-dressing plants around the yard. They will totally dig it. Lots of calcium from crab and fish bone meal.


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## greg nr (May 31, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> So you gave your plants the stinky liquid that comes out the bottom -- without diluting it?
> You are brave! That shit smells *really* bad. Ants always show up when I dump it outside.


Yes, but I don't use a traditional bin. This is a "Worm Inn", and the instructions have you water it on an occasional basis to the point of runoff. It's just the way it works. I don't know if bin ooze would work quite the same.

And the recipients were males destined for the worms anyway, so no risk or bravery involved.


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## Blunted 4 lyfe (May 31, 2017)

greg nr said:


> Ok, so I asked if I could put the liquor that comes out from my worm inn after I water it on my plants. I took two males that were going to go to the worm bin and tried some out on them. They were preety dry, to the point of drooping. I watered each with the straight liquor. No aeration, no amendments, it wasn't even particularly fresh. Just what was in the collection bucket.
> 
> They LOVED it! I tell you, they didn't look this good three days ago......
> 
> View attachment 3951741


It has been documented that the liquid from worm bins are full of good nutrition for plants I can't remember wher I saw it but there was a story where this guy had an old bath tub for a worm bin and a spigot to fill his containers so he could pour it on all his plants I think it might've been on Northwest Redworms website.


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## Chunky Stool (Jun 1, 2017)

Blunted 4 lyfe said:


> It has been documented that the liquid from worm bins are full of good nutrition for plants I can't remember wher I saw it but there was a story where this guy had an old bath tub for a worm bin and a spigot to fill his containers so he could pour it on all his plants I think it might've been on Northwest Redworms website.


I discovered that the amount of liquid my worm bin produced was abnormal. Turns out the bottom bin was clogged and always stayed super wet -- which explains the smell. It really was awful. 
There has been *zero* runoff for several days since the tune up.


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## Blunted 4 lyfe (Jun 1, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> I discovered that the amount of liquid my worm bin produced was abnormal. Turns out the bottom bin was clogged and always stayed super wet -- which explains the smell. It really was awful.
> There has been *zero* runoff for several days since the tune up.


In some cases things that are offensive to smell aren't nessecarrly "bad" for plants take for example I take a dead fish and bury it below small trees (fruit) and plants to great success they love it so I keep doing it every year the grass is always greener and healthier around my cesspool you can pick out where any cesspool is just by looking at the grass, I do crab meal tea and that shit stinks but my plants love it.


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## Chunky Stool (Jun 1, 2017)

Blunted 4 lyfe said:


> In some cases things that are offensive to smell aren't nessecarrly "bad" for plants take for example I take a dead fish and bury it below small trees (fruit) and plants to great success they love it so I keep doing it every year the grass is always greener and healthier around my cesspool you can pick out where any cesspool is just by looking at the grass, I do crab meal tea and that shit stinks but my plants love it.


Crab meal tea? Oh my... 
Ever try insect frass in your tea?


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## Blunted 4 lyfe (Jun 2, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Crab meal tea? Oh my...
> Ever try insect frass in your tea?


I wish I could find frass but I guess there's a small market (pun intended) for it in my area, but anyhow Crab meal is very good for your plants.

http://ogteabags.com/category/compost-tea-recipes/#.WTEaA4UpDYU


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## Chunky Stool (Jun 2, 2017)

Blunted 4 lyfe said:


> I wish I could find frass but I guess there's a small market (pun intended) for it in my area, but anyhow Crab meal is very good for your plants.
> 
> http://ogteabags.com/category/compost-tea-recipes/#.WTEaA4UpDYU


Thanks for the link! I noticed that one of their recipes contained oyster shell, which I though was odd because it's not soluble. 
I quit aerating my nutrient teas because it isn't necessary and increases the viscosity too much -- especially with alfalfa. 
But I still aerate microbial tea. 
I'm running a simple nutrient tea right now: Bat guano, insect frass, neem seed, & potassium sulfate. 
It's got a good balance of NPK plus a boost of calcium & magnesium. 
Guano tends to attract pests so I use neem to deter them. 
My plants love it!


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## Javadog (Jun 3, 2017)

I was inspired to start my barrel out back up. Had to buy a little starter 
but it was time, and time for a trip to the shop anyway.

I need to get some molasses.... :0)


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## Mohican (Jun 6, 2017)

I thought that it turned out molasses was bad?


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## Wetdog (Jun 6, 2017)

Mohican said:


> I thought that it turned out molasses was bad?


Not "bad" per se, but way overused by some.


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## giglewigle (Jun 6, 2017)

hay guys whats up i put some of this in my worm bin will this make the wormcastings more diverse in terms of npk and all the other stuff i also put some dynamic lifter and volcanic rock dust some graetwhite and some coco for bedding and a banana peel u guys think ittl make decent castings also i put a but of humic powder


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## Chunky Stool (Jun 6, 2017)

giglewigle said:


> View attachment 3956407 View attachment 3956408 hay guys whats up i put some of this in my worm bin will this make the wormcastings more diverse in terms of npk and all the other stuff i also put some dynamic lifter and volcanic rock dust some graetwhite and some coco for bedding and a banana peel u guys think ittl make decent castings also i put a but of humic powder


Sounds like a lot of effort!


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## giglewigle (Jun 6, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Sounds like a lot of effort!


not really its over a period of 2 weeks ive done this it says on the packaging 100 percent leaf extract so im sure ittl work just wondering if ittl make better castings than if i just used coco there seems 2 a few eggs so i gues tats a good sign


----------



## Chunky Stool (Jun 7, 2017)

giglewigle said:


> not really its over a period of 2 weeks ive done this it says on the packaging 100 percent leaf extract so im sure ittl work just wondering if ittl make better castings than if i just used coco there seems 2 a few eggs so i gues tats a good sign


My worms just get kitchen scraps.
Bedding is coco, sand, shredded junk mail, and oyster shell if I remember to add it.


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## Mazer (Jun 15, 2017)

Greetings Gentlefolks!
I have to start by saying I feel like I just read War and Peace in one go! I read all 64 pages of absolutely delightful info you have spread. Wonderful really. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
I started a worm bin last November or so when I was given an entire level of a bin by my best friends' mother who lives in an apartment, has no plant whatsoever, and has been doing VC for the past 5 years to spread the love around to her friends and reduce the volume of her waste.
Well I built a bin out of tiny little totes that I customized to be stackable. Bear in mind that I had no experience with WC before. so I made tiny little holes in the bottom of the totes and same on the lid. I carefully fed the creatures (red wrigglers and the other stripped kind) with gourmet stuff. Organic processed lefto's from my bin + teabags, coffee grinds and every now and then eggshells. my food processor turn everything into a brownish goo and the wormies seem to love my cuisine. I will put the freeze and thaw technic to use now (Again Thanks for smartifying us).
I used coco + cardboard for bedding. and coco on top as well.
the bin is in a basement with very stable temperature. I get virtually no leachate BUT the compost is soggy as a marsh. Very very very wet.
I have limited access to all the funky kelp, alfalfa, comfrey meals you folks use (for now). I am thinking of adding a bit of wheat bran to soak up the moisture AND increasing the ventilation and hole size that are probably between 1/6th to 1/8th of an inch but in large numbers. tons of mites as well but the wigglers don't seem to mind the company. 

Now, I started a thread elsewhere (thanks Richard Drysift and Wetdog for your replies) but it should just have been in this thread so here it goes:
Do any of you folks have bins with different diet to support the different stages of plant growth?

BOOM.

WCingly yours,
M


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## cindysid (Jun 15, 2017)

DonAlejandroVega said:


> when I get set-up, out in AZ, I'm going to do black soldier fly farming, feed that frass to red wigglers to finish off quickly, and feed excess worms, and all the black soldier fly grubs to chickens, and use their waste as insect chow. a circle
> 
> I'm considering adding some of the black soldier fly grubs to my diet also......lol. very high in protein. all the right fats. free-range.....lol. totally serious. I'm preparing for the 'Pocyclypse................


 I know that this an ancient post, but I know you're still around. How did the soldier fly farming go, and did you ever try eating any? The reason I'm interested (not in eating them) is because BSFs have taken over my worm bin and seem to be more efficient than the wigglers. I find the flies in my growroom all the time.


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## Chunky Stool (Jun 15, 2017)

Mazer said:


> Greetings Gentlefolks!
> I have to start by saying I feel like I just read War and Peace in one go! I read all 64 pages of absolutely delightful info you have spread. Wonderful really. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
> I started a worm bin last November or so when I was given an entire level of a bin by my best friends' mother who lives in an apartment, has no plant whatsoever, and has been doing VC for the past 5 years to spread the love around to her friends and reduce the volume of her waste.
> Well I built a bin out of tiny little totes that I customized to be stackable. Bear in mind that I had no experience with WC before. so I made tiny little holes in the bottom of the totes and same on the lid. I carefully fed the creatures (red wrigglers and the other stripped kind) with gourmet stuff. Organic processed lefto's from my bin + teabags, coffee grinds and every now and then eggshells. my food processor turn everything into a brownish goo and the wormies seem to love my cuisine. I will put the freeze and thaw technic to use now (Again Thanks for smartifying us).
> ...


Funny you should mention bugs. The last time I added scraps to my bin I noticed a LOT of insect activity. A few gnats, but mostly tiny bugs that crawl. 
Not sure if they are good or bad. 
What do you guys think?


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## Javadog (Jun 15, 2017)

It is really hard to tell....need to know exactly what bug....but it seems
that there are a lot that are harmless. As long as nothing is feeding on 
your worms themselves then they are likely competition but nothing more.


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## Wetdog (Jun 16, 2017)

They are likely decomposers and help to get the food down to worm size. The population rises and falls with the food supply. Too many and you are likely overfeeding.

Like Javadog said, if they aren't attacking the worms, no worries.


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## calliandra (Jun 17, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Funny you should mention bugs. The last time I added scraps to my bin I noticed a LOT of insect activity. A few gnats, but mostly tiny bugs that crawl.
> Not sure if they are good or bad.
> What do you guys think?


When I see microarthropods in my bin, I'm happy.
But then again, I'm also happy when I see a big predator like this in my finishing tier


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## Chunky Stool (Jun 17, 2017)

OK, the bugs in my worm bin are flying now so I'm moving it out of the garage. 
Gonna try some need seed meal + insect frass to control whatever the hell these things are. 
Might even top it off with pumice & a little diatomaceous earth.


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## Wetdog (Jun 18, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> OK, the bugs in my worm bin are flying now so I'm moving it out of the garage.
> Gonna try some need seed meal + insect frass to control whatever the hell these things are.
> Might even top it off with pumice & a little diatomaceous earth.


Calm down, it's really NBD

First off stop feeding the worms 'wet' food, like vegi scraps and such for the time being to get rid of some moisture.

A LIGHT top dress is a good thing.with the neem meal. The worms love it, the flying bugs, not so much.

The insect frass? I don't have a clue.

The DE and pumice? The worms might not appreciate it, but it made me laugh.


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## DrCannaPath (Jun 18, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> OK, the bugs in my worm bin are flying now so I'm moving it out of the garage.
> Gonna try some need seed meal + insect frass to control whatever the hell these things are.
> Might even top it off with pumice & a little diatomaceous earth.


Whats up bro .... i wouldnt worry too mich about those flying guys. Theyre probably fruit flies or gnats. Just lower the moisture in the bin like Wet dog suggested and their number will go down. Also leave a nice top layer of dry shredded paper on top and things will balance back to where ot should be. Expect a change in the biotic balance in yoir bin with the change in environment (ie moisture and acidity)  
Some peoole suggest freezing the food scraps before dumping it in the bin to help mush it a little (easier for them to eat) and kill the fruit flies eggs.
I hope this helps  
Happy vermicompostin yall 

Check out my new Organic Fruit Garden:
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/930415/
and my previous QuadStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/


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## Mohican (Jun 23, 2017)

I just cover it with some promix or cardboard and the flying bugs are stopped.


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## DrCannaPath (Jun 23, 2017)

Also, from the little research i did on the subject, adding neem meal may help control some of those pests while making the worms happy and i believe it helps them grow bigger and multiply! 

Check out my new Organic Fruit Garden:
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/930415/
and my previous QuadStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/


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## Chunky Stool (Jun 23, 2017)

Mohican said:


> I just cover it with some promix or cardboard and the flying bugs are stopped.


I moved it outside and covered the top with wet newspaper. Still a lot of bugs but I don't care as much now that they are out of the garage. I've got a fresh bin of scraps to go on top and will be adding a new layer. I'm going to top it with a bunch of shredded paper plus the usual wet newspaper.


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## MrKnotty (Jul 12, 2017)

Started my worm bin today, and I couldn't be more excited. I'd like to thank everyone for helping me on my true organic road path!! On an amazing side note, today I went and picked up my worms. The gentleman whose home I went to was a third generation worm farmer. I did not know this before we met. We sat and talked for almost 4 hours about worms and indigenous microbes. If I may quote the great Ice Cube...."Today was a good day." ( On a super side note, at the end of our convo, he brought me to what he referred to as his holy grail. It was his original box his grandparents started him on. He let me scoop some bonus worms to aid me on my journey....So I got that going for me.

Peace!


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## Chunky Stool (Jul 13, 2017)

What's the best way to separate worms from castings? 
My current method: 

Make a pyramid.
Let sit in the sun a couple of hours
Take castings off top. 
Repeat. 
Is there an easier way?


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## greg nr (Jul 13, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> What's the best way to separate worms from castings?
> My current method:
> 
> Make a pyramid.
> ...


The instructions that came with my worm inn said to remove the castings, then put a piece of melon on the surfave. The worms will collect under it. Just scoop them up and put them back in the bin. I haven't tried it yet.


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## Chunky Stool (Jul 13, 2017)

greg nr said:


> The instructions that came with my worm inn said to remove the castings, then put a piece of melon on the surfave. The worms will collect under it. Just scoop them up and put them back in the bin. I haven't tried it yet.


That would be awesome if it works, but I've got a feeling melon isn't going to do the trick. It might attract a few.
My bottom trays always have a fair number of adults plus a zillion baby worms. They are tiny as hell. I don't even see them until they move. I'll dump a tray and it looks like there's just dirt around the sides -- but the dirt moves! So I take a watering can and rinse them right into my recycled dirt pile. Lots of dead roots for worms to eat. 
A word of advice for anyone who's new to vermicomposting: too much moisture is a bad thing. Your worm bin should have minimal runoff, if any. One thing that helps is mixing shredded junk mail with my scraps before adding them to the bin. The ink is soy based and nontoxic. The paper not only absorbs moisture, the worms eat it like fiber. They also like coffee grounds -- probably for grit. 

But ya never know... they might like caffeine!


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## Wetdog (Jul 13, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> That would be awesome if it works, but I've got a feeling melon isn't going to do the trick. It might attract a few.


If 500+ worms at a scoop is a 'few', then yeah, a melon rind will attract a few. I've pulled over 2k worms from one bin over 2 days with one piece of rind (rind of ~1/4 of a small watermellon). 

Let it sit for a couple of days, raise it up, scoop the ball of worms underneath. Replace the rind and allow for the next batch to congregate, scoop and repeat as necessary. The 2k worms were to start another bin and was only ~1/4 - 1/3 of the total population.

Freezing the rind really helps break it down faster and cantalopes are great for smaller tray type bins.

BTW, it's an old Southern country trick to get fishing worms easy and cheap.


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## Chunky Stool (Jul 13, 2017)

Wetdog said:


> If 500+ worms at a scoop is a 'few', then yeah, a melon rind will attract a few. I've pulled over 2k worms from one bin over 2 days with one piece of rind (rind of ~1/4 of a small watermellon).
> 
> Let it sit for a couple of days, raise it up, scoop the ball of worms underneath. Replace the rind and allow for the next batch to congregate, scoop and repeat as necessary. The 2k worms were to start another bin and was only ~1/4 - 1/3 of the total population.
> 
> ...


I will definitely give that a try!


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## im4satori (Jul 13, 2017)

good info on the bugs

answered many of my questions

being new to organics I was shocked at how much the addition of neem cake eliminated my on going fungus gnat issue

ive also read gnatrol is safe for worm bins

on another note;
I tossed a couple rotting potatoes in my bins and they freakin grew large root balls... had to pull the potatoes lol

almost dark and they where growing like champs omg

also got some pepper sprouts growing from a red pepper I tossed in


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## Chunky Stool (Jul 13, 2017)

im4satori said:


> good info on the bugs
> 
> answered many of my questions
> 
> ...


I've also had potatoes growing out of my bin. They do surprisingly well in worm bins.


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## giglewigle (Aug 14, 2017)

Feed my worms hemp seeds meal now theres what i think is mycelium and tons of these white worms any one know wtf this is if its good bad


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## Moe Flo (Aug 14, 2017)

I found similar sized tiny worms but normal color in my rainwater tank. I've never seen either of them before. I think I may grind some seeds up and toss them in the bin.


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## giglewigle (Aug 15, 2017)

Moe Flo said:


> I found similar sized tiny worms but normal color in my rainwater tank. I've never seen either of them before. I think I may grind some seeds up and toss them in the bin.
> 
> View attachment 3995156


Mine look like pinworms


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## Chunky Stool (Aug 15, 2017)

Mazer said:


> Greetings Gentlefolks!
> I have to start by saying I feel like I just read War and Peace in one go! I read all 64 pages of absolutely delightful info you have spread. Wonderful really. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
> I started a worm bin last November or so when I was given an entire level of a bin by my best friends' mother who lives in an apartment, has no plant whatsoever, and has been doing VC for the past 5 years to spread the love around to her friends and reduce the volume of her waste.
> Well I built a bin out of tiny little totes that I customized to be stackable. Bear in mind that I had no experience with WC before. so I made tiny little holes in the bottom of the totes and same on the lid. I carefully fed the creatures (red wrigglers and the other stripped kind) with gourmet stuff. Organic processed lefto's from my bin + teabags, coffee grinds and every now and then eggshells. my food processor turn everything into a brownish goo and the wormies seem to love my cuisine. I will put the freeze and thaw technic to use now (Again Thanks for smartifying us).
> ...


I've been adding all natural, non-clumping clay kitty litter to absorb excess moisture. Seems to be working... 
(Special kitty from wal-mart)


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## greg nr (Aug 15, 2017)

I just pulled up two very healthy bermuda onions from my bin. Had potatoes start also.


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## Chunky Stool (Aug 15, 2017)

greg nr said:


> I just pulled up two very healthy bermuda onions from my bin. Had potatoes start also.


My last tray had several cloves of garlic sprouting in it! 
I should have moved them to the garden, but I cut em up for round 2.


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## Mazer (Aug 18, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> I've been adding all natural, non-clumping clay kitty litter to absorb excess moisture. Seems to be working...
> (Special kitty from wal-mart)


Dear Chunky Stool,
I just read "worms eat my garbage" interesting read. this thread is so informative that I learned very few things. Anyhow, after finishing the book, as I use plastic stackable DYI bins, I probably need to review the aeration. I just purchase some very fine mesh nylon screen. I will cut holes on the low side and the opposite side of the bin and add the mesh. It should enhance aeration and decrease dampness.
Darn! I only grow 4 plants and spend soooooo much time on this hobby! it is ridiculous and yet sooooooo satisfying. 
I am really thinking of adding a couple of bins and just topdressing with WC often.
TimeConsumingly Yours,
M.


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## Mohican (Aug 18, 2017)

I have mine in a compost tumbler. They have been living in there for two years now.


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## Rasta Roy (Aug 18, 2017)

Mohican said:


> I have mine in a compost tumbler. They have been living in there for two years now.


I threw some in my compost tumblers this spring and it's going well, lots more random bugs then my inside ones. And I'm gonna have to remove them from the tumblers to an inside bin when winter comes. But they are killing it out there right now!


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## calliandra (Aug 20, 2017)

giglewigle said:


> Feed my worms hemp seeds meal now theres what i think is mycelium and tons of these white worms any one know wtf this is if its good bad


Hey giglewigle, the white worms are fine to have.
It's said they indicate that your bin is currently more on the acidic side, nothing to worry about though, their populations ebb and flow as the type of foods they like do too.
The downside to the way they process the material they eat is that apparently they don't have the highly beneficial gut fauna the compost worms do. But since it'S very probable the stuff they processed will get reprocessed by the compost worms, that shouldn't be a worry either.
HTH! 



Moe Flo said:


> I found similar sized tiny worms but normal color in my rainwater tank. I've never seen either of them before.


haven't seen these before either. Though baby compost worms look kind of similar, this being in your rainwater tank sort of scraps that possibility. 
Cheers!


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## Moe Flo (Aug 20, 2017)

[QUOTE="haven't seen these before either. Though baby compost worms look kind of similar, this being in your rainwater tank sort of scraps that possibility. 
Cheers![/QUOTE]


Matured cricket Larvae they are.


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## papa canna (Aug 20, 2017)

Has anybody been able to compare the vermihut 5 and the worm factory 360? Leaning towards the factory but really I would just like minimal labor.


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## MJCanada (Aug 21, 2017)

shameless plug of checking out my worm identifying thread (close to top right now), let me know if I got it right!!

Also adding a watch... all the while shameless plugging


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## Wetdog (Aug 22, 2017)

papa canna said:


> Has anybody been able to compare the vermihut 5 and the worm factory 360? Leaning towards the factory but really I would just like minimal labor.


From long time users, once everything is settled in and cranking, you end up harvesting 1 tray/month for ~2 1/2 gallons of VC.

Myself, I use the DIY 18gal Rubbermaid totes and have 2 that I use as 'nursery' bins to supply worms for other bins (6 total). Anyway, both of those bins were started in July 2016 and have yet to be harvested over a year later. I bait worms with a piece of melon rind and scoop them up when they cluster under the rind. Even taking over 1k worms out doesn't seem to affect the overall population much and whatever is taken out is quickly replaced.

I'll harvest it when I get energetic, but harvesting once/year is pretty "minimal labor". The smaller bins started with those harvested worms get used 'as is', worms and all.


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## Chunky Stool (Aug 22, 2017)

papa canna said:


> Has anybody been able to compare the vermihut 5 and the worm factory 360? Leaning towards the factory but really I would just like minimal labor.


The nice thing about the worm factory 360 is that the tray is 15.75" X 15.75" X 15", which is common. My local landscaping wholesaler sells them for 5 bucks (made by Anderson).
The worm factory works well, but it's WAY overpriced for what it is. Four trays only cost $20, so they want $80 for the stand and a lid. WTF???


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## Chunky Stool (Aug 22, 2017)

It's a good day to be a worm. 

(worm salad)


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## greg nr (Aug 23, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> It's a good day to be a worm.
> View attachment 3998762
> (worm salad)


Hey, I have one of those kitchen compost cans (to the lower right in your picture). Is there any way to clean the carbon filter in the top? It doesn't look it comes out.....


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## Chunky Stool (Aug 23, 2017)

greg nr said:


> Hey, I have one of those kitchen compost cans (to the lower right in your picture). Is there any way to clean the carbon filter in the top? It doesn't look it comes out.....


They are flexible and you can pull them out. (There are two filters in the lid.)
Those two claw cultivators were on clearance for 25 cents at wal-mart! 
It's a good time to buy shit like that...


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## greg nr (Aug 23, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> They are flexible and you can pull them out. (There are two filters in the lid.)


Great! Any idea where to get replacements? Are they just aquarium filters?


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## Chunky Stool (Aug 23, 2017)

greg nr said:


> Great! Any idea where to get replacements? Are they just aquarium filters?


Not sure. Ours came with an extra set of filters but we haven't used them yet.

I took it apart just because I'm weird like that...


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## greg nr (Aug 23, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Not sure. Ours came with an extra set of filters but we haven't used them yet.
> 
> I took it apart just because I'm weird like that...


Those compost bins work great though. I've raised the lid on mine and almost gagged at the smell, but with the cover on not a scent. Definitely makes the family more accepting of frank's lunch pail.

Oh, and my wife just found the filters on amazon. It was one of those "frequently purchased together" items.


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## Chunky Stool (Aug 23, 2017)

Metal food scrap containers are awesome! They keep bugs out & smell in. 
I took my lid apart again & found that extra set of filters. (Square filter goes on the bottom, round on top.)


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## Chunky Stool (Aug 23, 2017)

Pulled two trays of castings off the bottom. There are a few egg shell fragments, but overall it looks like the worms ate most of the food. It looks like I'm having another moisture issue because there was a quart of liquid at the bottom. But I hadn't checked it in a very long time since it was always dry. Hmm...
I just added a tray of scraps to the worm tower and mixed in a few cups of non-clumping kitty litter to soak up moisture. (Special Kitty all natural from wal-mart)


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## Bungalow (Aug 31, 2017)

calliandra said:


> I was just wondering the other day how the hell you harvest those bags, without all the VC falling out?!
> It has an opening in the bottom, right? How does that work?
> Cheers!


If you don't have a terrible amount of aeration I find it's "clumpy" enough that harvesting is as simple as putting a bucket or pan underneath, and opening up/digging out what you need. No special procedures here. I'll water it with a gallon every other week or so. Sometimes it's dry, sometimes it's wet. Slightly more work than my stacker I suppose, but virtually zero chance of it ever becoming anaerobic from my experience. I've put 5+ lbs of fruit and veggie waste in at once with no smell issues. YMMV


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## giglewigle (Oct 11, 2017)

yo iv got one of those vermihuts and im wonder ing how mutch is to mutch in terms of worms if got potato skins in it iv added other stuff that i blended first witch im shure got broken down but not only have the skins not brokan down since i put them in like a month or two ago there sprouting lol but im considerj g getting these mix of worms it was red blue and tiger worms is it worth it my main goal with getting my own castings is i wanna have alot of mycrobe ritch but also i wanna have alot of minarols n shit lol 1st pic is the 1st bin the second pic is the second i probably need 2 harvest it lol


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## Bungalow (Oct 12, 2017)

I haven't seen this spoken of, so I'd like to address something here. Most seem to be finding fruit/vegetable scraps unappealing/unusable for their worm bins, considering they're upwards of 90% water content. I'm not saying this is the best input seeing how manure/compost/dry carbon sources are likely to be more stable, but if you're like me and hate wasting/want to get it there anyway try this:

freeze your scraps - I'm using over 5lbs at a time
remove and place in a large bowl/anything you can mix well in
add ground oats/MBP/any grain really - it's going to wick the moisture from your scraps (make sure it's coating all of the scraps
add a small handful of amendments - usually kelp and a pinch of neem for myself
I finish up with a pinch of lime spread evenly across the mix - when adding this quantity it's a measure to prevent acidic pockets

I'll generally only feed every two weeks, or when I remember/the freezer gets full.This has all been done in the Worm Inn Mega flow-through design. If you're unsure about such a hot addition to your bin, another method I use is a simple "pre compost" where I have some lightly amended bedding in another tote, and I'll add the scraps to that for a week or so and let them get turning. Much of the initial composting heat will be finished, the water content will be lower, and the scraps will be breaking down enough for your worms to get into immediately. I highly recommend this extra step if you want to try feeding more than you have been.


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## giglewigle (Oct 12, 2017)

Bungalow said:


> I haven't seen this spoken of, so I'd like to address something here. Most seem to be finding fruit/vegetable scraps unappealing/unusable for their worm bins, considering they're upwards of 90% water content. I'm not saying this is the best input seeing how manure/compost/dry carbon sources are likely to be more stable, but if you're like me and hate wasting/want to get it there anyway try this:
> 
> freeze your scraps - I'm using over 5lbs at a time
> remove and place in a large bowl/anything you can mix well in
> ...


i dont full y understand youre post i get the frezzing part doas the food u put in have to be dry and it will braekdown quicker i thought it would breakdown quicker if it was wetter i also like 2 add amendments tho do u think u can add rock dusts i put some food in a blender left over rock mellons and potato peels and a spoon full of rock dust iv been very curios about adding different stuff like humic acid and stuff my goal is to make it closer to humus verses just comost thanks for posting its good to know im not the only one thinking about stuff sutch as this


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## giglewigle (Oct 12, 2017)

Bungalow said:


> I haven't seen this spoken of, so I'd like to address something here. Most seem to be finding fruit/vegetable scraps unappealing/unusable for their worm bins, considering they're upwards of 90% water content. I'm not saying this is the best input seeing how manure/compost/dry carbon sources are likely to be more stable, but if you're like me and hate wasting/want to get it there anyway try this:
> 
> freeze your scraps - I'm using over 5lbs at a time
> remove and place in a large bowl/anything you can mix well in
> ...


do think the second pic i posted looks finnished its pretty dark


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## giglewigle (Oct 12, 2017)

im looking into amenments i can blend up and feed the castings like rock dust and kelp meal and hemp seed meal i dont want to make super soil n shit i jut want 2 buy a decent soil and add good quality castings what are ur thoughts interested on what eveyone feeds there worms plus i wanna focus on trace elements and minarals n shit what are youre thoughts guys


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## giglewigle (Oct 12, 2017)

also i know this is a dum question i have a vermihut do i make layers or is it better to just fill it up and then just bury the food


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## cindysid (Oct 12, 2017)

I just add manures and vegetable matter along with cardboard etc for mine. I would hesitate to add too many meals or dusts. The worms will get plenty from the compost. You can add the rock dust and meals to your soil.


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## giglewigle (Oct 12, 2017)

cindysid said:


> I just add manures and vegetable matter along with cardboard etc for mine. I would hesitate to add too many meals or dusts. The worms will get plenty from the compost. You can add the rock dust and meals to your soil.


i put like a kilo witch i think is 6 cups once i got those little white worms lol still those csstings i cant waight 2 use em


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## Chunky Stool (Oct 12, 2017)

giglewigle said:


> i put like a kilo witch i think is 6 cups once i got those little white worms lol still those csstings i cant waight 2 use em


Is that English?


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## giglewigle (Oct 12, 2017)

lol  yes its a dialect i invented  lol fuck i love emoticons


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## giglewigle (Oct 12, 2017)

has anybody ever gotten there castings tested like soil is it a thing


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 12, 2017)

castings are used to give living microorganisms to your soil not necessarily nutrients. I don't know that soil testing would do much.


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## giglewigle (Oct 12, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> castings are used to give living microorganisms to your soil not necessarily nutrients. I don't know that soil testing would do much.


im guessing it would be better composting amendments then but im not able 2 get all the amendments i dont wanna fuck around with ratios n shit id rather just get a good soil and have a good castings


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## Bungalow (Oct 12, 2017)

giglewigle said:


> i dont full y understand youre post i get the frezzing part doas the food u put in have to be dry and it will braekdown quicker i thought it would breakdown quicker if it was wetter i also like 2 add amendments tho do u think u can add rock dusts i put some food in a blender left over rock mellons and potato peels and a spoon full of rock dust iv been very curios about adding different stuff like humic acid and stuff my goal is to make it closer to humus verses just comost thanks for posting its good to know im not the only one thinking about stuff sutch as this


After freezing the fruit/veg scraps will more or less turn to a mush - very soggy. The ground grains are only to absorb some of the moisture so it's not a soaking wet anaerobic pocket when adding larger amounts - I second being careful with amendments, a little seems to go a long way. I've added rock dusts and never seen a problem, but I also don't know if it's much of a benefit. Kelp will mineralize just fine on its own. I know the worms need grit, and I added dusts as a way to achieve that, but sand would be a much cheaper addition. In my experience humic doesn't need to be added to the bin - they'll produce plenty on their own over time. Now if I'm adding coco as bedding I do like to hit that with a humic soak 1x after I hydrate it - idea being to pump microbiology and life in the inert media. AACT works great for this. 

As to whether your bin is finished - too hard for me to tell. What was your base material/bedding? How long has it been processing? How many worms did you start with? Also different people have different goals - some want pure EWC, while I'm content with a vermicompost blend of EWC and compost occurring side by side. I don't screen for castings

With diverse inputs your micros will be fairly killer, although not necessarily balanced.. I lean heavily on the kelp for that role, but I do use TM-7/Big 6 micronutrient supplement by BioAg. Be VERY careful applying something like this without a soil test - I use half or even quarter doses, and only every few weeks for a few months. If you have iron in your water, get Big 6. I think kelp is a safer option - I just like to experiment and take risks. Oh, on the hemp protein powder, if that's what you meant... use it sparingly. It'll really heat things up


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## hyroot (Oct 12, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> castings are used to give living microorganisms to your soil not necessarily nutrients. I don't know that soil testing would do much.


If you feed your worms amendments, grains, and veggie scraps. They will be full of readily available nutrients. Most commercial castings, worms are only fed cardboard and the castings have low nutrient value if any. Thats partly why with no till if you use quality castings you don't need to reamend every round.


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## meangreengrowinmachine (Oct 12, 2017)

giglewigle said:


> im guessing it would be better composting amendments then but im not able 2 get all the amendments i dont wanna fuck around with ratios n shit id rather just get a good soil and have a good castings


each ti his own man! I give my worms my left over veggies and coffee grounds sometimes finely ground eggs shells. I leave the amendments to the soil mixing and let it sit with all those good microbes for a month or so mmmm plants love! (-:


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## giglewigle (Oct 12, 2017)

my goels is to make it easy as possable im thinking iv i need a bit of npk i can top dress somthing or make tea sort of thing but im wanting to put somthing with a bit lf npk like food scraps but here and there i wanna add minarols i dont wanna fuck arohnd like subcools soil recipe type shit i just wanna add castings n thats i have a vermi hut i started with i think 500 or a thousend last year im gunna be ordering more i think thru summer and a winter killed a few of the coco im using is hygen brand coco its allready hydrated its cal mag buffered dont really wanna mess around im happy to blent shit and then freeze it then chuck it in for npk i can use bio canna im more worried about the trace elements nd basicly everything else other then npk be a bit quicker to blend up amend ments freez em en add em versus composting em


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## giglewigle (Oct 12, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> each ti his own man! I give my worms my left over veggies and coffee grounds sometimes finely ground eggs shells. I leave the amendments to the soil mixing and let it sit with all those good microbes for a month or so mmmm plants love! (-:


i dont have the mony 2 buy all the amendments ill be atmost ill be juts getting a bag kf canna terra and mixing in some castings i dont have the funds or the energy tk fuck around with all that stuff shit if i could plant o e lut the back it be no worries at all lol


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## giglewigle (Oct 12, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> each ti his own man! I give my worms my left over veggies and coffee grounds sometimes finely ground eggs shells. I leave the amendments to the soil mixing and let it sit with all those good microbes for a month or so mmmm plants love! (-:


i bought recently a kit thats got the amendments all readdy just gotta add the castings airation and coco been sitting in the tumbler for months got all sorets of mites and shit in it 
so id rather just bet a decent soil and put it with some castings im mostly growing autos


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## 619kt619 (Oct 14, 2017)

meangreengrowinmachine said:


> castings are used to give living microorganisms to your soil not necessarily nutrients. I don't know that soil testing would do much.


you can test your castings, they will not only break down the nutrient value but they will also give approximate bio mass numbers of the microbiology in the sample.


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## giglewigle (Oct 15, 2017)

think im gunna test both soil and castings one day when i got money like PLIus one iv youre adding amendments to the worms i think im gunna buy some shell grit people saed it was quick breakdown and good source of calcium whiths is what i wand some grot to help em break down food and some cal to help em start breeding and some kelp meal


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## Wetdog (Oct 15, 2017)

You're wasting your time with shell grit, it's entirely too large to be of ANY use in a worm bin. Same as crunched up eggshells. I've tried both and both were still chunks years later, not broken down in the least.

Google *mesh size* + lime for a better explanation. In short, for minerals, rock dust, lime, oyster shell flour (NOT "flower"), and stuff of that nature needs to be the consistancy of flour to actually become available.

What DOE'S work and works well is chicken laying mash/crumbles. It has the calcium, ground small enough to actually become available and worms flat out love it. Best of all, it's as cheap as "chicken feed", ~$15 for a 50lb bag. Guess that would translate to roughly $20AU/22kg bag.

Just, NEVER bury it (it will sour). Sprinkle lightly on the surface, mist lightly and it will be gone in a few days time, then feed again. The worms get fat and the population explodes, a real win-win.


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## giglewigle (Oct 15, 2017)

if i can get that online cool iv got dolomight lime witch is pretty witch id say is micronozed or flour its pretty dusty i dont se why i cand bled the fuck outt of some egg shels i did it before along with some rock melon theres no sign of any of it now but i really apreciate the advice man ill only be adding things that have been micronised


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## giglewigle (Oct 15, 2017)

15 dollers for 50 pounds tho thats a hell of a deal


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## giglewigle (Oct 15, 2017)

i do remember when i put the dolight lime in that seemed to really start breeding


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## Chunky Stool (Oct 15, 2017)

giglewigle said:


> think im gunna test both soil and castings one day when i got money like PLIus one iv youre adding amendments to the worms i think im gunna buy some shell grit people saed it was quick breakdown and good source of calcium whiths is what i wand some grot to help em break down food and some cal to help em start breeding and some kelp meal


Nice sentence.


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## giglewigle (Oct 15, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Nice sentence.


lol i was about to tell u to fuck off but after re reading that all i can say is sorry lol ill do better


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## giglewigle (Oct 15, 2017)

i wanted to buy the shell grit becuse on the website thay said it braeks down really quick


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## giglewigle (Oct 15, 2017)

do u guys think id be see any benifit sprinkling abit of volcanic rock dusts in the vermi hut versus just spinklung some directly in the garden


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## Chunky Stool (Oct 15, 2017)

giglewigle said:


> lol i was about to tell u to fuck off but after re reading that all i can say is sorry lol ill do better


I'm not trying to break your balls; it's just hard to read. I'm lazy and don't like having to read shit twice to figure it out.


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## Javadog (Oct 15, 2017)

LOL, we do need to up our game. :0)

...and a reasonable response. Better descriptions make it much
easier to give help, if needed.

Carry on!


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## Chunky Stool (Oct 15, 2017)

giglewigle said:


> i wanted to buy the shell grit becuse on the website thay said it braeks down really quick


Not sure about that. Calcium amendments tend to take a while to break down. (crab shell, fish bone, oyster shell, etc.)


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## Chunky Stool (Oct 15, 2017)

giglewigle said:


> do u guys think id be see any benifit sprinkling abit of volcanic rock dusts in the vermi hut versus just spinklung some directly in the garden


I've been adding non-clumping kitty litter to my scraps to absorb some moisture & it seems to be working well. 
All natural "Special Kitty" from wal-mart. 
I've also used it in my soil mixes & plants love it.


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## giglewigle (Oct 15, 2017)

lol i understand guys ill get a screenshot of the product im talking about


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## giglewigle (Oct 15, 2017)

im just looking ultimatly to provide all the traces and stuff i figure buy the time it gets to the soil it will be more quickly available idk i just dont want 2 screw around with all these diferen amendments and stuff


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## giglewigle (Oct 15, 2017)

i may just use the dolomight lime iv got as im boke as fuck atm lol i i cant waight to harvest it eather and stick it


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## Chunky Stool (Oct 15, 2017)

giglewigle said:


> i may just use the dolomight lime iv got as im boke as fuck atm lol i i cant waight to harvest it eather and stick it


You are on the right track, and growing shouldn't cost a lot of money. This year I grew a couple of lbs cannabis outdoors using whatever I had on hand. It turned out very nice -- and I spent zero on electricity. It might not be as good as indoor weed, but my cost was minimal. 
Got two 6-footers left. Gonna chop one today because it's having "issues", and will probably bring the other one indoors to finish under a 600w halide. 
If I had to pick 2 favorite amendments, I'd go with crab shell and kelp. Fairly balanced NPK + plenty of cal-mag.


----------



## giglewigle (Oct 15, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> You are on the right track, and growing shouldn't cost a lot of money. This year I grew a couple of lbs cannabis outdoors using whatever I had on hand. It turned out very nice -- and I spent zero on electricity. It might not be as good as indoor weed, but my cost was minimal.
> Got two 6-footers left. Gonna chop one today because it's having "issues", and will probably bring the other one indoors to finish under a 600w halide.
> If I had to pick 2 favorite amendments, I'd go with crab shell and kelp. Fairly balanced NPK + plenty of cal-mag.


i maneged to get some sour kush witch i believe was out door was way better smoke that any thing iv ever had ill probly just get the kelp meal in all honesty tho i may well just ad vegie scraps n stuff id love 2 nerd out but i think for now id be better off sticking with the basics and then ill have a decent base of what works and sutch


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## Mohican (Oct 15, 2017)

You can soak the eggshells in vinegar for a week and then dilute the vinegar with water and pour that on your soil. 
Use Google Chrome browser and it will spell check for you as you type.


----------



## giglewigle (Oct 15, 2017)

Mohican said:


> You can soak the eggshells in vinegar for a week and then dilute the vinegar with water and pour that on your soil.
> Use Google Chrome browser and it will spell check for you as you type.


i use google crome i only have acces 2 a tablet is this an option still thanks for the tip


----------



## giglewigle (Oct 15, 2017)

also doas any one know any thing about eart worms i wish to attract them to my raised bed


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## Fastslappy (Oct 15, 2017)

giglewigle said:


> also doas any one know any thing about eart worms i wish to attract them to my raised bed


Bury half rotted food items about 6 inches or more down ,leave it alone they will come , next time it rains collect some locals.


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## Chunky Stool (Oct 15, 2017)

giglewigle said:


> also doas any one know any thing about eart worms i wish to attract them to my raised bed


If there's food, they will show up. 
Worms really like melons...


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## Fastslappy (Oct 15, 2017)

I've read that u shouldn't mix red wigglers & the locals
I Now know that to b true earthworms should b in soil not a worm farm
the red wiggles r the best , fastest at making ewc 
Get them happy it's surprising how fast they will eat


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## calliandra (Oct 15, 2017)

Ah but you don't actually want them for your worm bin?



giglewigle said:


> also doas any one know any thing about eart worms i wish to attract them to my raised bed


A magical way to get more earthworms is to mash up food scraps / plant debris etc, like for a worm bin feeding, and then really mix that with the top layer of soil in your raised bed so there are no clumps of food. Cover it all with a good layer of mulch and let the magic happen.

I got guys like this giant digger from doing that over the last winter - just the visible part there is 30cm (that's a foot lol) In a plot that had very little earthworm activity before that 



If you want to, you can read into the theory behind it and how I went about here: https://www.rollitup.org/t/callis-conundrums.936771/page-6#post-13481339

Cheers!


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## Wetdog (Oct 17, 2017)

giglewigle said:


> i may just use the dolomight lime iv got as im boke as fuck atm lol i i cant waight to harvest it eather and stick it


Chunky answered your question about the shell grit. Calcium carbonate is just not something that breaks down fast. That whole blurb sounds kinda bogus and really geared to you buying the OSF they also sell.

Whatever, the dolomite you DO have has you covered, so no need to fork out $$.

Take the saved $$ and search out some laying mash to get the worms cranking. I'll top dress some and it's totally consumed in three days and they're ready for more. They flat just swarm the stuff.


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## Mazer (Oct 19, 2017)

Dear Gentlefolks,
I have lended one too many time my copy of Worms Eat My Garbage. I can not recall to whom. And now I am desperately seeking for a formula Mary Appelhof wrote somewhere in the book. 
It is the one detailing the ratio between a healthy worm population and the size of the bin. 
Would any of you, dear worm tamers, be kind enough to remind me that equation?
Scientifically yours,
M


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## DonTesla (Oct 20, 2017)

giglewigle said:


> has anybody ever gotten there castings tested like soil is it a thing


I'm waiting on some results.. Testing once a year is a good idea.

Here are the vegetarian castings .. Note the babies flourishing .. The root looking things are all baby worms


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## calliandra (Oct 22, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> I'm waiting on some results.. Testing once a year is a good idea.
> 
> Here are the vegetarian castings .. Note the babies flourishing .. The root looking things are all baby wormsView attachment 4029918


erm sorry but aren't those white worms?
friendly companions of the larger compost worms, they do contribute towards composting (helping things go faster) but don't have as evolved of a gut fauna
the compost worm babies are usually red, at least red wigglers are?


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## Chunky Stool (Oct 22, 2017)

calliandra said:


> erm sorry but aren't those white worms?
> friendly companions of the larger compost worms, they do contribute towards composting (helping things go faster) but don't have as evolved of a gut fauna
> the compost worm babies are usually red, at least red wigglers are?


Yep, what she said ^^ 
When it's warm (70+) my worms have LOTS of babies. It's pretty cool.  
Not sure what I'm going to do now that it's colder. I don't worry about my bin freezing solid because we don't get many deep freezes here in the NW. But worms definitely eat less when it's cold & there's a steady stream of fresh scraps. I'm thinking about just expanding and treating them like normal compost bins. The organic material won't decompose quickly so it will just accumulate until it gets warmer and the microbes & worms can catch up. 
What do you think of my plan?


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## Mohican (Oct 22, 2017)

Try microwaving the scraps to feed them hot food and I move my bin to a sunny spot. We don't get many freezes but this does seem to make them happier.


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## calliandra (Oct 22, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Yep, what she said ^^
> When it's warm (70+) my worms have LOTS of babies. It's pretty cool.
> Not sure what I'm going to do now that it's colder. I don't worry about my bin freezing solid because we don't get many deep freezes here in the NW. But worms definitely eat less when it's cold & there's a steady stream of fresh scraps. I'm thinking about just expanding and treating them like normal compost bins. The organic material won't decompose quickly so it will just accumulate until it gets warmer and the microbes & worms can catch up.
> What do you think of my plan?


Yeah, Mo's idea sounds pretty good, to keep them going, I guess it just depends on how cold it really does get in your parts and whether you can move your bin. haha
As for adding stuff over the winter and not getting consumed (and yes, I've even noticed my guys slowing down in my _flat_, now temps are falling), the only thing I'd look out for, thinking this through from a microbial perspective, is that there is enough woody material between the more nitrogen-rich scraps. Just imagining how decomposition will accelerate come spring, maybe overwhelming the worm's appetite and thus running danger of going anaerobic as it awaits processing. But with enough, say brown leaves, spent potting soil, woodchips, or anything of that kind between layers, I can see it becoming a nice few weeks of springtime celebration with some great compost at the end


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## Mohican (Oct 22, 2017)

Have they started moving people put of your building complex?


----------



## calliandra (Oct 22, 2017)

Mohican said:


> Have they started moving people put of your building complex?


actually, they're moving back _in  _- just the housing company though: it's now moved its archives into two of the houses everyone just moved out of last Xmas (and there _were _casualties, there's an old lady who is all droopy now, exactly like an old tree torn out of the soil...). Demolishing has stalled on the block that was supposed to go down before ours, 2 tenants are putting up resistance (and right they are, though there won't be a productive outcome to it). 
But that's reeaaaally OT here haha


----------



## DrCannaPath (Oct 24, 2017)

Hey hey hey quick update on IPM spray day:
As ya can tell from the pics, the girls are gaining color. Also, I could smell them outside the groom now and thats why I hooked up the carbon scrubber to the extraction fan.
I also lowered the light a bit because theyre done stretching 
Btw I defoliated the yellow leaves ya see in the shots below.
A group shot then singles from top left clockwise 1SourD 2BlueKush 3SweetCoffeeRyder and 4PineappleExpressMystery 
Till next update happy growin yall 


Check out my current Organic Fruit Garden:
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/945580/
and my previous Organic Run:
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/930415/
and my previous QuadStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/


----------



## DrCannaPath (Oct 24, 2017)

Sorry for posting the update in the wrong thread .... my apologies lads

Check out my current Organic Fruit Garden:
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/945580/
and my previous Organic Run:
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/930415/
and my previous QuadStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/


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## hyroot (Oct 24, 2017)

It's a worms life.


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## DonTesla (Oct 25, 2017)

@calliandra @Chunky Stool 
Now how can they be white worms when all that was used to start this farm was a pound of reds.. And all theyve been fed is veggies from the juicer.. note all the wiggler cocoons, they are coming out clear, then go white then yellow then red.


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## giglewigle (Oct 25, 2017)

im struglin with my bin atm im gunna get some laying mash and see if that helps em produce more coccoons to get the numbers up i try not to fuck with it tho i had some potato peelings in there that i i dident blend and freeze and thaw lol there was a lot of em tring to sprout so castings must be goot for propagation lol theres all this white fluff idk if its myceliem or mold or whatever but after looking at knf stuff im not really wurried kinda paranoind 2 harvest the castings iv got one of thos ones thats got trays shoould i be harvesting the bottem one and only be putting food in the top considering buying more my numbers a defenetly down from the 1000 i satarted with tho the place i found tjat seems 2 be reputable sells a mix of reds tigers and afican ones and im not really 100 percent what thay all where off the top of my head im should i stick with one species ? Wish id bought i phisycal copy of that worms eat my garbege insted of peordering it on kindle lol owell comes out soon


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## Chunky Stool (Oct 25, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> View attachment 4032838
> 
> @calliandra @Chunky Stool
> Now how can they be white worms when all that was used to start this farm was a pound of reds.. And all theyve been fed is veggies from the juicer.. note all the wiggler cocoons, they are coming out clear, then go white then yellow then red.


That looks really wet! 
I've never seen worms like that in my bin. 
I add bedding with fresh scraps, which helps keep it from going anaerobic. I still get some liquid out of the bottom but it smells like dirt -- no stink. 
If your bin has gone anaerobic, the worm juice will smell rotten to the max.


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## giglewigle (Oct 25, 2017)

is it safe 2 say tho if the bin only has smels tnat smell good the its safe


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## Chunky Stool (Oct 25, 2017)

giglewigle said:


> is it safe 2 say tho if the bin only has smels tnat smell good the its safe


Only the fresh stuff on top should stink -- and that's preventable.


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## giglewigle (Oct 25, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Only the fresh stuff on top should stink -- and that's preventable.


okay nothing has stunk in mine not even tje potato peels that have been in there for months actually when i got tje white fuzzy stuff there was a bit of that wet damp smell but every one saed that was fine the fuzzy shit not the smell i dont think its there any more tho i should probly go nd check that


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## DonTesla (Oct 25, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> That looks really wet!
> I've never seen worms like that in my bin.
> I add bedding with fresh scraps, which helps keep it from going anaerobic. I still get some liquid out of the bottom but it smells like dirt -- no stink.
> If your bin has gone anaerobic, the worm juice will smell rotten to the max.


Babies love it wet apparently, this is the wettest layer, the one right below the food, with 100x the worms and cocoons, interestingly enough, no fruit has been introduced to this farm


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## giglewigle (Oct 25, 2017)

just cheked my bin no white stuff any more and no bad smell lol theres all these potato peelings sprouting tho im going to put some of them in the potato bag iv got


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## calliandra (Oct 25, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> View attachment 4032838
> 
> @calliandra @Chunky Stool
> Now how can they be white worms when all that was used to start this farm was a pound of reds.. And all theyve been fed is veggies from the juicer.. note all the wiggler cocoons, they are coming out clear, then go white then yellow then red.


The white worms, along with white mites, are populations that show up all on their own, and they come and go with the foods being added. 
In my bin (which has been vegetarian this past year), the mites turn up pretty much always when feed is added (I've also read the mites appear when we've overfed, which _could _be, as I am always in a hurry for more VC lol), the white worms only on occasion. I remember reading that they like acidic conditions - mites and whiteworms alike. I have the impression the white worms show up under more specific conditions than the mites, but haven't paid close enough attention to be able to confirm that with specifics. (Ah the world is soo full of fascination and mystery! )

What I _can _confirm, is that these guys are beneficial 
The only difference being, that their digestive tract is composed differently and so they are more like pre-shredders. The compost worms should then have the opportunity to rework what they've been at to kill off any pathogens and add whatever enzymy goodness they do to cultivate a beneficial mix of microbes.

And yes, you're about to get an explosion of reds too, haha! 
How many babies per egg again? I think it was something like 4 on average that hatch per coccoon..

Your bin may or may not be too wet, pictures are often deceptive especially regarding that 



Chunky Stool said:


> I add bedding with fresh scraps, which helps keep it from going anaerobic.


I do that too and can only recommend it!
A bin doesn't have to have any runoff at all. 
But please let's not call it worm juice, makes it sound so much nicer than it usually can be expected to be! 
Cheers!


----------



## hyroot (Oct 25, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> View attachment 4032838
> 
> @calliandra @Chunky Stool
> Now how can they be white worms when all that was used to start this farm was a pound of reds.. And all theyve been fed is veggies from the juicer.. note all the wiggler cocoons, they are coming out clear, then go white then yellow then red.





calliandra said:


> The white worms, along with white mites, are populations that show up all on their own, and they come and go with the foods being added.
> In my bin (which has been vegetarian this past year), the mites turn up pretty much always when feed is added (I've also read the mites appear when we've overfed, which _could _be, as I am always in a hurry for more VC lol), the white worms only on occasion. I remember reading that they like acidic conditions - mites and whiteworms alike. I have the impression the white worms show up under more specific conditions than the mites, but haven't paid close enough attention to be able to confirm that with specifics. (Ah the world is soo full of fascination and mystery! )
> 
> What I _can _confirm, is that these guys are beneficial
> ...


Red wigglers are always red even right out of the cacoon. The white worms in your bin are pot worms. They show up when the ph gets low. Red wigglers hate low ph and pot worms love it. They are not harmful. They feed on organic material at an extremely slower rate. But you do not want them. If they are present then the red wigglers will die off. Red wigglers can't survive for very long in a low ph environment.

You need to add the same amount of carbon ( coco, cardboard, brown leaves) as greens to keep the balance. To get rid of the pot woms and raise the ph add a bunch pulverized egg shells and the pot worms will be gone in a week. You should add egg shells when you add veggie scraps.

Fyi left over sst scraps are very acidic. Adding that to your bin will make the pot worms show up the next day.


----------



## Fastslappy (Oct 26, 2017)

hyroot said:


> Fyi left over sst scraps are very acidic. Adding that to your bin will make the pot worms show up the next day.


When I do corn sst I Don't strain at all , all solids left after the long bender action is poured out on to top dressing, u don't let the corn tap roots get long at all as the longer it is the lower the enzyme levels r in the seed , I learned this after studying how they make malted grains for brewing beer, the Brewers r after the highest enzyme. Level possible , as those
enzymes r what changes starches to sugars ,ie helps speed the break down of yer soil additives ,old roots , mulch 
When I first see root nubs on all the corn stock .I blend


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## Tyleb173rd (Oct 26, 2017)

I want to do another bin but I don’t want any food trim in it. I’d like to do it the way casting companies do their worms but on a very small scale and with minimal bugs. Can anyone point me in the right direction? The goal is to have castings that are “bug” free that go into my rooms and then my current bin would be for teas and outdoors.


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## Fastslappy (Oct 26, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> I want to do another bin but I don’t want any food trim in it. I’d like to do it the way casting companies do their worms but on a very small scale and with minimal bugs. Can anyone point me in the right direction? The goal is to have castings that are “bug” free that go into my rooms and then my current bin would be for teas and outdoors.


Ya do know that when a worm bin Is done there aren't any "bugs" left alive
The casting companies all have low quality inputs soo yer wanting to make a low quality product ?


----------



## Tyleb173rd (Oct 26, 2017)

Fastslappy said:


> Ya do know that when a worm bin Is done there aren't any "bugs" left alive
> The casting companies all have low quality inputs soo yer wanting to make a low quality product ?


I have a stackable worm bin. Every few days I refeed the worms with once frozen food trim purée. The bugs are always there as long as there’s some organic material. 

I want to do stackable bins and harvest castings as fast as possible.


----------



## Chunky Stool (Oct 26, 2017)

hyroot said:


> Red wigglers are always red even right out of the cacoon. The white worms in your bin are pot worms. They show up when the ph gets low. Red wigglers hate low ph and pot worms love it. They are not harmful. They feed on organic material at an extremely slower rate. But you do not want them. If they are present then the red wigglers will die off. Red wigglers can't survive for very long in a low ph environment.
> 
> You need to add the same amount of carbon ( coco, cardboard, brown leaves) as greens to keep the balance. To get rid of the pot woms and raise the ph add a bunch pulverized egg shells and the pot worms will be gone in a week. You should add egg shells when you add veggie scraps.
> 
> Fyi left over sst scraps are very acidic. Adding that to your bin will make the pot worms show up the next day.


This is very possible since I add a little oyster shell & neem every time I mix a batch of worm salad.


----------



## Chunky Stool (Oct 26, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> I have a stackable worm bin. Every few days I refeed the worms with once frozen food trim purée. The bugs are always there as long as there’s some organic material.
> 
> I want to do stackable bins and harvest castings as fast as possible.


I've got 8 trays in my stack and have found that it's best not to harvest them too quickly. I do one tray about every three weeks, then age the castings a few more weeks before using them. This gives bugs time to finish their business and leave.
I recently noticed that my geraniums were starting to sag & get brown leaves. I fed em some diluted poop juice from my worm bin and they perked up, big time! It's unusual for them to still be blooming for Halloween!
Already got kale ready to replace the geraniums but they'll have to wait a little longer...


----------



## Tyleb173rd (Oct 26, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> I've got 8 trays in my stack and have found that it's best not to harvest them too quickly. I do one tray about every three weeks, then age the castings a few more weeks before using them. This gives bugs time to finish their business and leave.
> I recently noticed that my geraniums were starting to sag & get brown leaves. I fed em some diluted poop juice from my worm bin and they perked up, big time! It's unusual for them to still be blooming for Halloween!
> Already got kale ready to replace the geraniums but they'll have to wait a little longer...
> View attachment 4033126


Ah ha.....so it’s a good thing to age the castings once removed from the trays? Superb!!


----------



## Wetdog (Oct 26, 2017)

Yeah, worms don't care for acidic conditions, liking it more towards neutral pH, or at least close.

I use a peat based bedding similar to a base soil mix (Peat moss, perlite, lime), along with a little kelp meal and neem to jump start the microbes and make ~15 gallons at a pop.

This not only gives me a constant when adding various amendments/foods, but also something close to my soil mix for 'short term' bins that are more VC than pure castings.

Have 6 bins (totes), 3 'long term' (more than 6 months between harvest), that are both used as nurserys and for EWC and 3 'short term' (harvest at ~3 months), for top dressing VC.

The long term bins get dusted with a bit of lime after 3 months or so. Even with lime added initially the bins tend to the acidic from the constant moisture and added organic amendments breaking down, not to mention the peat breaking down as well.

Just remember, with calcium carbonate, no matter the source, it's all about mesh size. About the consistancy of flour is best, but at least as fine as corn meal. Otherwise, it just sits.

Eggshells are fine IF you can grind them fine enough, but usually pulverized/ground, dolomite, Ag lime, or oyster shell flour is easier and more convienent to use. Cheaper also if you have to replace a ruined spice grinder. LOL

I would imagine it would also work as grit for the worms, but I add play sand for this, so can't speak with certainty.

But, if you see pot worms, you need some liming agent, whatever your choice.


----------



## DrCannaPath (Oct 26, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> View attachment 4032838
> 
> @calliandra @Chunky Stool
> Now how can they be white worms when all that was used to start this farm was a pound of reds.. And all theyve been fed is veggies from the juicer.. note all the wiggler cocoons, they are coming out clear, then go white then yellow then red.


Those white worms are fine in there ... probably a little acidic and wt ... they came with the worms when ya got them probably. Btw i see lots of worm cacoons in there 

Check out my current Organic Fruit Garden:
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/945580/
and my previous Organic Run:
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/930415/
and my previous QuadStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/


----------



## DonTesla (Oct 26, 2017)

DrCannaPath said:


> Those white worms are fine in there ... probably a little acidic and wt ... they came with the worms when ya got them probably. Btw i see lots of worm cacoons in there
> 
> Check out my current Organic Fruit Garden:
> https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/945580/
> ...


They're actually on an alkaline diet but perhaps they are white worms, I have separated some to see what happens in time. Thanks for chiming in, mate. Anyone know the technical name for these whites?


----------



## Chunky Stool (Oct 26, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> They're actually on an alkaline diet but perhaps they are white worms, I have separated some to see what happens in time. Thanks for chiming in, mate. Anyone know the technical name for these whites?


Cracker worms?


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## DonTesla (Oct 26, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Cracker worms?


aha, shit


----------



## DonTesla (Oct 26, 2017)

hyroot said:


> Red wigglers are always red even right out of the cacoon. The white worms in your bin are pot worms. They show up when the ph gets low. Red wigglers hate low ph and pot worms love it. They are not harmful. They feed on organic material at an extremely slower rate. But you do not want them. If they are present then the red wigglers will die off. Red wigglers can't survive for very long in a low ph environment.
> 
> You need to add the same amount of carbon ( coco, cardboard, brown leaves) as greens to keep the balance. To get rid of the pot woms and raise the ph add a bunch pulverized egg shells and the pot worms will be gone in a week. You should add egg shells when you add veggie scraps.
> 
> Fyi left over sst scraps are very acidic. Adding that to your bin will make the pot worms show up the next day.


Thanks for chiming in Hy

FYI This is a worm farm that I am taking over and this is the state its in from when I showed up..
Its my understanding that they are on a very alkaline diet, 5 vegetables only.. and a bit of leaf mould dirt. So it should be very stable, ph wise, especially since they are tomato free and pineapple / fruit free, etc. 

Since I took over I cut the farm with a de-compacting agent (organic buckwheat hulls as well as rice hulls). 
I will add some eggshell flour once I have some more stocked up too.

But the part I beg to differ is that baby worms actually come out clear, at least in my farms, as Ive always had a tonne of cocoons and therefor was afforded the opportunity to see many hatch straight from the egg so to speak. Although diet can affect colour, a lot of people use cow manure for example, that can cause red tinges as well as purple in adults, ime.

Another thing that I have noticed is that the wigglers are preferring to lay their eggs on this very moist layer, where the thousands of small worms are concentrated, whether pot worms or not, they seem to be getting along very nicely, almost like they are babysitting them with love.

Final note, no SST scraps here, just fresh alkaline scraps from the juicer for human consumption. 

To clarify matters a bit more, I will test pH tomorrow and see what that says.. 
Cardboard though, I dont like personally, I see that as an inferior input imo. Once I saw videos of cardboard fed farms and non cardboard, years later, the choice was clear to me that I would avoid it from then on. 
Thanks again for your inputs, though, always appreciate your point of views on organics!

Don


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## DrCannaPath (Oct 26, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> They're actually on an alkaline diet but perhaps they are white worms, I have separated some to see what happens in time. Thanks for chiming in, mate. Anyone know the technical name for these whites?


Theure called pot worms or potworms 

Check out my current Organic Fruit Garden:
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/945580/
and my previous Organic Run:
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/930415/
and my previous QuadStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow  :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/


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## calliandra (Oct 27, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> Anyone know the technical name for these whites?


Yes they belong to the enchytraeids (though that didn't help me on much back when I researched them ha)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enchytraeidae



DonTesla said:


> Another thing that I have noticed is that the wigglers are preferring to lay their eggs on this very moist layer,


I was actually a bit surprised, I was trying to find out whether _Eisenia hortensis_ (I think they're the european nightcrawlers) need a different kind of care than the red wigglers, and read that the wigglers can deal with up to 80-90% humidity!! (As opposed to the nightcrawlers, who prefer less heat and less moisture _and _prefer more woody food sources too..)

Which leads me to a question regarding literature on the different worm species we can use for composting! Anyone know of a good book or website that covers that, or is this yet another of those things we don't really know much about yet?
Cheers!


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## Chunky Stool (Oct 28, 2017)

calliandra said:


> Yes they belong to the enchytraeids (though that didn't help me on much back when I researched them ha)
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enchytraeidae
> 
> 
> ...


The last few times I harvested trays I noticed at least 100 worms hanging out in the wettest part of my worm bin -- at the bottom next to the spigot. There's usually some liquid down there but none of them had drowned. 
Weird.


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## Fastslappy (Oct 28, 2017)

Guys r now vermicomposting their outdoor bags 
They start with thermo composted material 
Add amendments to feed the worms & buy a huge bag of red wigglers , then tarp it , but keep it moist
Coot's noted that his last run was done this way


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## Fastslappy (Oct 28, 2017)

Locals ,earth worms r meant to be in soil , redwigglers r the decaying masters at eating in all sorts of conditions, I threw hundreds of locals in my bins none survived, masses of wigglers ,even swimming in the run off tray did . D
Had a red mite invasion but as soon as it sweeter with coco bedding they left, did u know those red mites kill fungus flies larvels


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## giglewigle (Oct 28, 2017)

Fastslappy said:


> Locals ,earth worms r meant to be in soil , redwigglers r the decaying masters at eating in all sorts of conditions, I threw hundreds of locals in my bins none survived, masses of wigglers ,even swimming in the run off tray did . D
> Had a red mite invasion but as soon as it sweeter with coco bedding they left, did u know those red mites kill fungus flies larvels


my tumbler witch had a mix cooking got infested with knats the explosed with mites then i noteced the knats where gone then the mite population left im sure there where one or 2 but doas it soumd like tjats the case eather way i think its pretty fasanating


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## Fastslappy (Oct 28, 2017)

I bought a ssp of soil mite for fungus fly, I swear they r the same , even soo much I collected both, look the same , I found if leave small flat chunks of wood laying on yer mulch they hide under it during the day , they reek havoc at night , pill bugs will hide with em too , I pick up the wood it's a carpet of red bodies moving where the wood was
They started running like hell in the light
I found this by accident the wood chunk was a non carbonized charcoal chunk , I picked it up to clear the soil of it ,boom mite villa party under da wood


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## hillbill (Oct 28, 2017)

Just starting a bin, typical 5 drawer, got a couple pounds of red wigglers and there were some euros in the mix, feeding and added a drawer simply for room and ease moisture mixing in dry paper. All seems well with some casting accumulation. This will be fun! Been using castings for ten years on herb and flowers also. Hope I can keep 'em livin'!


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## Tyleb173rd (Oct 31, 2017)

Suggestions please...
My stackable worm bin is doing welll but I would like another bin. This time I’d like something more efficent and cheaper. Ideally.....I’d love to have multiple bins that I rotate through with a constant supply of good compost.


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## Chunky Stool (Oct 31, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> Suggestions please...
> My stackable worm bin is doing welll but I would like another bin. This time I’d like something more efficent and cheaper. Ideally.....I’d love to have multiple bins that I rotate through with a constant supply of good compost.


Just buy new trays for $5 each & start a new bin. 
That's the dirty little secret of the 'Worm Factory 360'. 
The entire thing costs $100 but the four trays only cost $20. So I paid $80 for the plastic stand & a lid.


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## Tyleb173rd (Oct 31, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> Just buy new trays for $5 each & start a new bin.
> That's the dirty little secret of the 'Worm Factory 360'.
> The entire thing costs $100 but the four trays only cost $20. So I paid $80 for the plastic stand & a lid.


I just bought another whole bin from Ebay for 1/3the original price...and I put a bid on another one. It seems like a good deal.


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## Mohican (Nov 2, 2017)

I am using my compost tumbler. They love it in there. Rotten apples are always full of worms and babies.


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## Fastslappy (Nov 2, 2017)

Got a 50 lb bag of laying mash


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## DonTesla (Nov 2, 2017)

Chunky Stool said:


> The last few times I harvested trays I noticed at least 100 worms hanging out in the wettest part of my worm bin -- at the bottom next to the spigot. There's usually some liquid down there but none of them had drowned.
> Weird.


They seem to love it moist, it seems as once there is ample food and moisture, they go nuts and proliferate the babies and lay extra cocoons immediately. We just set up a new farm and watered and fed it, and there are new cocoons everywhere, just 24 hours later, and its wetter than I was gonna suggest!


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## calliandra (Nov 2, 2017)

Mohican said:


> I am using my compost tumbler. They love it in there. Rotten apples are always full of worms and babies.


ha! I got a little surprise when harvesting my pumpkins yesterday - one of them had grown laying on its side and with the cold weather and the wilting of the plant, it had fallen over onto its stem.

I can only say, don't leave pumpkins lying on the ground stem-down, the critters will go for them immediately. 

But aside from that lesson, I got a good laugh too: there were _compost worms_ (a lovely slender, unicolor dark red variety) getting all into the pumpkin too!!

So adding those nibbled parts of the pumpkin to the bin is going to unleash a wild orgy in there I think! 

Oh. And just to embellish the thread with some worm pix:
happy worms - I was actually trying to get a pic of the little black beetle-like bugs there - there are 2 - but ohwell!


----------



## MustangStudFarm (Nov 3, 2017)

So, I finally started getting my soil tested. I use composted rabbit/chicken manure and they are usually high in Potassium and Phosphorous to begin with, right. I was also using coco coir based worm castings and I had a BUNCH of it, so I would give a generous top-dressing when I did my final transplant into the flowering container. I ended up with a bad case of Potassium toxicity and I was dealing with it for about 2yrs now... Anyways, I thought that I would share my struggles with others! I seem to learn by fucking everything up...


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## Fastslappy (Nov 3, 2017)

MustangStudFarm said:


> So, I finally started getting my soil tested. I use composted rabbit/chicken manure and they are usually high in Potassium and Phosphorous to begin with, right. I was also using coco coir based worm castings and I had a BUNCH of it, so I would give a generous top-dressing when I did my final transplant into the flowering container. I ended up with a bad case of Potassium toxicity and I was dealing with it for about 2yrs now... Anyways, I thought that I would share my struggles with others! I seem to learn by fucking everything up...


So how do fix that soil ? Let the rain get to it ?


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## Mohican (Nov 3, 2017)

Grow bananas and avocados!


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## MustangStudFarm (Nov 4, 2017)

Fastslappy said:


> So how do fix that soil ? Let the rain get to it ?


Man, I found out that K is one of those that does NOT leach from the soil. It likes to stick around. I cut my compost with ProMix and extra aeration now. 1:1:1 with 50% aeration total because my CEC was high... I was also low on trace minerals, so I added kelp... 
 
This is the soil test before I added the worm castings, I couldn't find the pic that I took of that test...


----------



## Tyleb173rd (Nov 4, 2017)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Man, I found out that K is one of those that does NOT leach from the soil. It likes to stick around. I cut my compost with ProMix and extra aeration now. 1:1:1 with 50% aeration total because my CEC was high... I was also low on trace minerals, so I added kelp...
> View attachment 4037717
> This is the soil test before I added the worm castings, I couldn't find the pic that I took of that test...


What did that soil test cost? And that sulphur.....


----------



## calliandra (Nov 4, 2017)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Man, I found out that K is one of those that does NOT leach from the soil. It likes to stick around. I cut my compost with ProMix and extra aeration now. 1:1:1 with 50% aeration total because my CEC was high... I was also low on trace minerals, so I added kelp...
> View attachment 4037717
> This is the soil test before I added the worm castings, I couldn't find the pic that I took of that test...


heyhey Mustang, long time no see 
Wasn't that the test you had posted in that thread you'd started about it a while back?

Yeah that was definitely a great example of too much of a good thing! Good to hear you've managed to get it under control by dilution 
How are you managing this soil now? I imagine you'll be topdressing sparingly?!
Cheers!


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## Chunky Stool (Nov 4, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> What did that soil test cost? And that sulphur.....


Yeah, I was expecting PH to be lower with all that sulfur.


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## MustangStudFarm (Nov 7, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> What did that soil test cost? And that sulphur.....


The test that is pictured is from Logan Labs and they charge around $50. https://www.spectrumanalytic.com/ is $25 but there is not graph and it really helps to understand the ratios. I finally had to do my own homework and just learn the stuff. I still have a lot to learn, but it is easier to look at the test numbers that are off and start from there. By the way, don't pay for the recommendations unless you are working an actual field. They will treat it like you are farming acreage and give you some BS chemical ferts to work with.


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## MustangStudFarm (Nov 7, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> What did that soil test cost? And that sulphur.....


I just looked a little closer at your name... Is that 173rd AirBorne Div??? I was an 11C in the 1st Cav. My best friend in highschool went to 173rd though, Brandon Zettl


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## Tyleb173rd (Nov 8, 2017)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I just looked a little closer at your name... Is that 173rd AirBorne Div??? I was an 11C in the 1st Cav. My best friend in highschool went to 173rd though, Brandon Zettl


Why is the Sky Blue?


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## MustangStudFarm (Nov 9, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> Why is the Sky Blue?


Because God loves the infantry!!!


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## Tyleb173rd (Nov 9, 2017)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Because God loves the infantry!!!
> View attachment 4040353


You’re damn right good brother!!!


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## MustangStudFarm (Nov 9, 2017)

Tyleb173rd said:


> You’re damn right good brother!!!


We had PBS Frontline come with us on patrol for about a week. The link to it is in my sig, I can't get the videos to play for some reason... I was in Baghdad when Faluija kicked off.


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## Mazer (May 5, 2018)

Stiring things up a bit.
Any worm enthusiast with vermicompost cinder block bed experience?
WhereMyGentleFellowsAt?
M


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## Thai_Lights (May 19, 2018)

How long did it take you guys to harvest your first bin? I'm coming up on 4 months was thinking of harvesting at 5.


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## Mazer (May 20, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> How long did it take you guys to harvest your first bin? I'm coming up on 4 months was thinking of harvesting at 5.


Dear Thai_Lights,
What type of bin do you have? 4 months is a decent time provided you stop feeding one months prior to harvest the herds in order to ensure everything has been broken down.
How do you harvest? 
I started to use this method and I find it very time efficient.





Wigglingly yours,
M


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## hillbill (May 20, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> How long did it take you guys to harvest your first bin? I'm coming up on 4 months was thinking of harvesting at 5.


Feed your worms! Have bin just a little longer and now harvest every few days like a week or so.


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## Dmannn (May 20, 2018)

MustangStudFarm said:


> Because God loves the infantry!!!
> View attachment 4040353


Thought that was for cold weather injury..


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## Thai_Lights (May 22, 2018)

I haven't harvested yet but will do same method as you.


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## Javadog (May 25, 2018)

"vermicompost cinder block bed experience" No, but I am curious. :0)


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## DonTesla (May 26, 2018)

Its highlighted in the Rodale Book of Composting but looks like a lot of (unnecessary) work! (for me anyway)


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## Mazer (May 30, 2018)

DonTesla said:


> Its highlighted in the Rodale Book of Composting but looks like a lot of (unnecessary) work! (for me anyway)


Dear DonTesla, 
I did not read this book. Would you care to elaborate?

Curiously yours,
M


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## Javadog (May 31, 2018)

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1029033.The_Rodale_Book_of_Composting


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## DynamiteBob (Jun 27, 2018)

Hey y’all, I have a tote of worm castings from this past winter that completely dried out. Should I just assume the bacteria have all died off and throw it in the compost bin? Or can I rehydrate and use it?


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## Wetdog (Jun 27, 2018)

DynamiteBob said:


> Hey y’all, I have a tote of worm castings from this past winter that completely dried out. Should I just assume the bacteria have all died off and throw it in the compost bin? Or can I rehydrate and use it?


The bacteria don't die off, just go dormant. When you rehydrate they wake up and get back to work. You're GTG.

Rehydrate it and use it.

Wet


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## hillbill (Jun 27, 2018)

Get it wet and go on! As above.


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## hillbill (Jun 27, 2018)

Harvesting the first of two ready trays. Thought this would be messy and complicated but it is a breeze! Great fertilizer faster than I can use it inside. My castings which I only roughly sift cause explosive foaming and incredible fresh smells to my teas, more than anything else in my house.


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## PopTop (Jul 21, 2018)

I have an established 13 cubic foot compost pile that I've thrown in some amendments:
kelp
alfalfa
fish bone meal
oyster shell flour
langbeinite
glacial rock dust
green sand
blood meal
neem meal
gypsum
crab shell meal
turned it all together and gave it a compost tea sprinkling

It's also made up from 
grass clippings
Leaves
vegetable and fruit scraps 
coffee grounds
egg shells ground up
could I introduce red wigglers into this concoction and just use that soil in my grows, I live in Chicago and was also wondering what I'd have to do to keep them alive during the winter time.


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## Thai_Lights (Jul 21, 2018)

PopTop said:


> I have an established 13 cubic foot compost pile that I've thrown in some amendments:
> kelp
> alfalfa
> fish bone meal
> ...


The heat from your compost should keep them alive if not the eggs will hatch again when it becomes warm outside... haven't kept worms outside


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## john073 (Jul 21, 2018)

Good Day

Everyone i am new to growing and i would like to do everything organic, is worm tea and everything from a worm farm enough to do organic growing or are there other stuff needed to grow organic, or will the worm tea and all things worm be enough to grow organic?

Thanks


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## Thai_Lights (Jul 21, 2018)

I would say skip the worm tea and instead of buying a bubbler buy some all purpose fert or down to earth bio live half cup per cubic foot mixed with sunshine 4 and 10% castings would be the easiest imo.


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## john073 (Jul 21, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> I would say skip the worm tea and instead of buying a bubbler buy some all purpose fert or down to earth bio live half cup per cubic foot mixed with sunshine 4 and 10% castings would be the easiest imo.


Thank you for the info, but does not look like i can get down to earth in south africa, and will have to import , and importing will cost to much


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## Thai_Lights (Jul 21, 2018)

Buy any organic all purpose


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## ANC (Jul 23, 2018)

Check the cool worm farm bin/ flower pot thingy at 2:30


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Jul 26, 2018)

Wait til I get these bins rockin.... can’t wait to show y’all the 40lb (40,000) Of (free) red wrigglers that will be crushing 20lbs of waste a day!

4 bins
10lbs each (10,000 worms) 
Gonna experiment with each bin...

Gonna make some serious rocket fuel for my outdoor veg garden, my lawn, my cannabis and some extra $$$, it’ll be easy to sell these castings where I live. 

Worm on!


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## Thai_Lights (Jul 26, 2018)

How big are your bins?


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Jul 26, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> How big are your bins?


55 gallon blue drums, cut in half.


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Jul 26, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> How big are your bins?


I’m going to build a wood frame for them all tomorrow- two on top two on bottom, with a tray underneath. I’ve drilled a few holes in the bottom of the barrels. Going to keep a cheap strip of lights on the frame above the barrels to keep them down in the dirt to stop from running.


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## Thai_Lights (Jul 26, 2018)

And how are you planning to harvest the VC?


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Jul 26, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> And how are you planning to harvest the VC?


Same as on the farm. With my hands.

When you have that many worms in a bin, they dig 1-2” under the surface and really not much deeper. They form a blanket across the top just underneath the surface. It’s easy... you lay all 4 bins beside each other, start on one, and rake the top inch or two back with your fingertips, barely exposing the layer of worms to light. You toss the castings you scraped back into an empty barrel, and while they bury themselves another inch or two deeper, you move on to the next bin. By the time you circle back, you’ve got another inch or two to pull off the top. I’ve got so much practice doing it that it’s like nothing. It’s far easier than separating worms any other way on small scale. You just let the worms and light do the work.


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Jul 26, 2018)

should I feed my worms the minerals I’m going to build my soil with? Or should I add them all into my mix with my compost, peat and aeration?


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## Thai_Lights (Jul 26, 2018)

Go watch Alberta organic gardening on YouTube.. . Glacial rock dust doesn't do shit. Wetdog talks about using green sans into his mix... dudes an OG so I will do the same.


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Jul 26, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> Go watch Alberta organic gardening on YouTube.. . Glacial rock dust doesn't do shit. Wetdog talks about using green sans into his mix... dudes an OG so I will do the same.


Word up. Yeah I’m looking forward to talking to wetdog more.


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## Thai_Lights (Jul 26, 2018)

Seems like with that many worms the best bedding is going to be manure


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Jul 26, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> Seems like with that many worms the best bedding is going to be manure


And paper, cardboard, wet shredded leaves, finished compost even. I’ve got two horses and raise chickens, and I’m surrounded by cow pasture. I’ve definitely got great access to the natural materials I need.


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## hillbill (Jul 26, 2018)

They call them Manure Worms!


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Jul 27, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> Go watch Alberta organic gardening on YouTube.. . Glacial rock dust doesn't do shit. Wetdog talks about using green sans into his mix... dudes an OG so I will do the same.


I watched his vids on rock dust. Another guy I respect a lot on YT made a video about it too that came up in suggestions once I watched. 

Something to use instead, which will cover the alleged benefits of rock dust?


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## Thai_Lights (Jul 27, 2018)

I think green sand... and kelp?


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Jul 27, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> I think green sand... and kelp?


Do you feed these things to your worms? Or do you add them as an ingredient along with WC into your soil mix? Will my minerals do the same thing in my soil if I have my worms cast them?


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## Thai_Lights (Jul 27, 2018)

I add kelp to my worm bin as well as comfrey and food waste


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## Chunky Stool (Jul 27, 2018)

TheBeardedBudzman said:


> Do you feed these things to your worms? Or do you add them as an ingredient along with WC into your soil mix? Will my minerals do the same thing in my soil if I have my worms cast them?


I've got a few worms in my 10 gallon pots that hang out just under the surface. 
They seem to like everything so far. 
I gave em some crab meal couple of weeks ago and they're digging it.


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## Wetdog (Jul 27, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> I think green sand... and kelp?


Add some Azomite to those 2 and you've hit my personal trifecta of minerals. Those3 are all I use in my mix.

AFA the worms go, I've added both kelp meal and greensand to the worm bins. The kelp meal pretty regulary, every 2-3 weeks The greensand perhaps once/month, 6 weeks. The azomite will be new for the bins, but will be added like the greensand. Light top dresses not real often. I keep coffee jugs around the bins with various amendments inside for a little "bump" of minerals. I've also gotten some crustacean meal, but it's pretty new to me and I'm not sure how it's going to work in the bins.

My main food is coffee grounds and fresh/frozen comfrey along with fairly frequent top dresses of chicken laying crumbles, like 3x or more/week. It's usually gone the next morning and never beyond 2 full days. At between $12/$14/50lb bag it's as cheap as .... chicken feed. LOL It's also the main ingredient in Purina's Worm Chow (Yes, it's really a thing).

Wet


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## Thai_Lights (Jul 27, 2018)

Thanks wetdog I will order some. Just dethawed and chopped up a bunch of cauliflower, green beans and lettuce for my two bins. For bedding I this time I used a bunch of old soil (with perlite). Wondering how it will be when I sift my VC with the perlite in there?


----------



## Thai_Lights (Jul 27, 2018)

Chunky Stool said:


> I've got a few worms in my 10 gallon pots that hang out just under the surface.
> They seem to like everything so far.
> I gave em some crab meal couple of weeks ago and they're digging it.


I have some SIP pots with worms in there too. I use the SIP pots to store a variety of strains in there. (I have too many strains and phenos btw.) 8 Hollywood pure kush phenos now to hunt through ahhh...


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Jul 29, 2018)

@ANC look what feel off the back of a truck.....


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Jul 29, 2018)

Guess I’ll never have to worry about mold damage if there’s a flood LOL


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## pollen205 (Aug 2, 2018)

any information of plagron Mega Worm...it is the only worm cast that I can get right now...
they say it is 100% Worm castings from Dendrobena Veneta.

will 1 l of that be good for 50 l biobizz lightmix...
I cant find any info about NPK or micro elements in it so if you know please type it

I dont have time to wait to decompost in soil for month so go diretcly to soil...

when it will be available for plant ...

Can I topdress with this...


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## Thai_Lights (Aug 2, 2018)

pollen205 said:


> any information of plagron Mega Worm...it is the only worm cast that I can get right now...
> they say it is 100% Worm castings from Dendrobena Veneta.
> 
> will 1 l of that be good for 50 l biobizz lightmix...
> ...


Mix that shit in at 10 percent add some extra perlite and your organic nutrient mix and let it buck.


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## pollen205 (Aug 2, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> Mix that shit in at 10 percent add some extra perlite and your organic nutrient mix and let it buck.


do you know any info about NPK...so 10 % on 50l biobizz light mix is 5l of this ...
so I must add 5 l right...

can I top dress with this


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## Thai_Lights (Aug 2, 2018)

Yeah you can top dress it but mix it into your initial soil mix. Don't over complicate shit... and don't worry about the npk....


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## Wetdog (Aug 3, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> Thanks wetdog I will order some. Just dethawed and chopped up a bunch of cauliflower, green beans and lettuce for my two bins. For bedding I this time I used a bunch of old soil (with perlite). Wondering how it will be when I sift my VC with the perlite in there?


Should be no problem. I make my own peat based bedding and it includes perlite. Mainly, it's the beginnings of a soil mix and everything is what would be going into the mix anyway. Old soil should work just as well if not better.

But the perlite has never been an issue when harvesting. My screen is 1/4", but I use it less and less, mainly just baiting as many as I can with melon rinds and using the VC "as is", worms and all.

Wet


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## Thai_Lights (Aug 4, 2018)

Wetdog said:


> Should be no problem. I make my own peat based bedding and it includes perlite. Mainly, it's the beginnings of a soil mix and everything is what would be going into the mix anyway. Old soil should work just as well if not better.
> 
> But the perlite has never been an issue when harvesting. My screen is 1/4", but I use it less and less, mainly just baiting as many as I can with melon rinds and using the VC "as is", worms and all.
> 
> Wet


Thanks wet. I find mangos work the best to lure my worms.


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## ACitizenofColorado (Aug 15, 2018)

Hello everyone. 

I hope to include pictures at some point. For now, the following is my attempt at vermicomposting, which I humbly expose to your unrelenting, merciless critique!

The current system uses smart pots: 20, 25 and 50 gallon. (I think the first two are 20 and 25; they may be 15 and 20.)

The base in the smaller pots are pure coco. 

For aeration, rice hulls were added at an unknown rate.

For nutrition, the two pots were given a mix of the following added in both dry and compost tea forms: kelp tea, fish hydrolysate (liquid), fish compost (solid), bat guano, oyster shell, rock dust, bokashi, aged earth-worm-compost, some build-a-soil flower mix (maybe will attach later), langbenite, bone meal. They are also routinely given kitchen scrapes from a relatively unhealthy household that may include rice, avocado, greens, fruit waste. Everything is organic.

To create an optimal environment, the two pots have thick layers of rice hulls that are brushed away to add food, then added back once the food has been added, and soil replaced. A thin-thick layer of hay (inoculated in a compost tea) sits atop the rice hulls. Plastic is placed atop that; the sides are folded in.

The base in the larger pot (50 available gallons approximately 65% - 80% full) is apx 50% - 50% coco to peat. All omri. 

For aeration, bio-char, rice hulls and pumice were added at an apx ratio of 2:2:1. Total aeration made up approximately 5%-15% of the mix; it's difficult to know for sure. 

For nutrition, assume the same previous mix plus a 50% - 50% neem/karanja mix. (This was also later added to the smaller pots. I may pick up some chicken starter mash; will also attach later.) 

The worms LOVE chilling in the thick hay layer beneath the plastic. I casually infer level of activity from the rate of compost deposition on the plastic. The thicker and darker the layer of compost that's stuck to the plastic, the more heavily the worms are feeding. Or something like that. I know almost next to nothing academic about this process. 

I haven't read any of the pertinent texts yet. Please attach any books or articles you think could benefit the thread or my endeavors.

I'm so grateful to everyone here for this community of information!


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## Thai_Lights (Aug 15, 2018)

Why are you using coco as a bedding? To me organic gardening should be based around free and local resources as much as possible. My worm bins in Thailand are coco bedding but that's a free and local resource.


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## hillbill (Aug 15, 2018)

Thai_Lights said:


> Why are you using coco as a bedding? To me organic gardening should be based around free and local resources as much as possible. My worm bins in Thailand are coco bedding but that's a free and local resource.


Free and local resources vary greatly. So do gardeners' space and conditions. Some feel using coco takes a load off Spagnum Peat Moss. But I am not a purist nor a Puritan.


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## ACitizenofColorado (Aug 15, 2018)

hillbill said:


> Free and local resources vary greatly. So do gardeners' space and conditions. Some feel using coco takes a load off Spagnum Peat Moss. But I am not a purist nor a Puritan.


I'm in the same boat. 

Can anyone add their thoughts about the following? It's a local store with check starter mash. I've heard starter mash is a good option for worm feed. Thoughts? 

http://www.ranch-way.com/products/organic-feed

http://www.ranch-way.com/products/organic-feed/easy-feed-organic-chick-starter-granules-40-lb-bag


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## Thai_Lights (Aug 15, 2018)

Heard ts good shit too.. I just use a bit of grinded grain once in awhile. (Free and local) just kidding hahaha


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## organitron (Aug 15, 2018)

Can anyone add their thoughts about the following? It's a local store with check starter mash. I've heard starter mash is a good option for worm feed. Thoughts?

http://www.ranch-way.com/products/organic-feed

http://www.ranch-way.com/products/organic-feed/easy-feed-organic-chick-starter-granules-40-lb-bag[/QUOTE]

Check out pellets or crumbles for layer hens, has 3 times the calcium. Worms dig it!


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Aug 16, 2018)

organitron said:


> Can anyone add their thoughts about the following? It's a local store with check starter mash. I've heard starter mash is a good option for worm feed. Thoughts?
> 
> http://www.ranch-way.com/products/organic-feed
> 
> http://www.ranch-way.com/products/organic-feed/easy-feed-organic-chick-starter-granules-40-lb-bag


Check out pellets or crumbles for layer hens, has 3 times the calcium. Worms dig it![/QUOTE]


There is no way I’d spend extra money on worm feed. There are virtually limitless FREE ways to give worms all the organic material they need.

Feed your chickens the crumbles and give the worms the chicken shit


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## ACitizenofColorado (Aug 16, 2018)

TheBeardedBudzman said:


> Check out pellets or crumbles for layer hens, has 3 times the calcium. Worms dig it!



There is no way I’d spend extra money on worm feed. There are virtually limitless FREE ways to give worms all the organic material they need.

Feed your chickens the crumbles and give the worms the chicken shit[/QUOTE]

Prior to yesterday, I didn't know I was allowed to raise chickens. I'm still not sure. But it looks like my neighbor has a coop in their postage-stamp sized yard. I am not opposed to getting worm food this way; of course, that means buying the stuff for a coop. 

For now, I could buy the feed, which is necessary either way, and maybe add the chickens later if possible.


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Aug 16, 2018)

ACitizenofColorado said:


> There is no way I’d spend extra money on worm feed. There are virtually limitless FREE ways to give worms all the organic material they need.
> 
> Feed your chickens the crumbles and give the worms the chicken shit


Prior to yesterday, I didn't know I was allowed to raise chickens. I'm still not sure. But it looks like my neighbor has a coop in their postage-stamp sized yard. I am not opposed to getting worm food this way; of course, that means buying the stuff for a coop.

For now, I could buy the feed, which is necessary either way, and maybe add the chickens later if possible.[/QUOTE]

Give them a bedding of shredded newspaper, shredded leaves and some moist peat moss. Save all your kitchen waste. Ask your neighbors for their kitchen waste. Give them a small tote bin for their kitchen and collect it weekly. Go to local markets or visit local farmers or growers and ask for their unsellable compostable material. 

You shouldn’t really need to buy anything for your worms as far as food goes. If you want to improve quality of castings, feed them some digestive aids like greensand OSF and eggshells. 

Should have to buy them food tho that’s kinda silly.


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## hillbill (Aug 16, 2018)

Collecting leaf mold from back wooded area and shredding cardboard for the worms a putting in bananas and peels and greensand and goodies. Pulling a tray on top to harvest.


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## ACitizenofColorado (Aug 17, 2018)

I'm here on a friday night looking for the dirt on worms...


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Aug 18, 2018)

Hey guys. 

The plot next to me is vacant and was getting overgrown. Snakes, bugs and other wild tropical animals were living all up in it and coming into my yard and fucking my life up. 

So I’ve started clearing it with my push mower and machete. My wife thinks I’m crazy and I don’t argue. Nevertheless, I’ve got like 80% of it done. 

There’s palm trees over there but the bottom of the trunks are rotting? I noticed how easily the trunk just falls and peels away from the tree like rotted wood. 

I’m new to the tropics and idk shit about palm trees, but the material that makes up this tree trunk seems really fibrous and strong. 

I’m about to knock this bitch over. 

Is the trunk of one of those notched-style palm trees beneficial for soil in any way?.... I’m thinking about busting up the trunk and giving it all to my worms....


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Aug 18, 2018)

if this old shitty tree has any benefit to me that fallen leaves don’t, I’d like to make use of it. It’s tall dead and ugly and will probably fall on my lawn if I don’t push it the other way lol


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## DonTesla (Aug 18, 2018)

TheBeardedBudzman said:


> Hey guys.
> 
> The plot next to me is vacant and was getting overgrown. Snakes, bugs and other wild tropical animals were living all up in it and coming into my yard and fucking my life up.
> 
> ...


You're a beast!

I think I may know of a company who makes biochar from coconut shells and palm trees.

I would dig a trench and burn that bitch, but after cutting it down and drying it out.. then add the biochar to the worm farm and soil!


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Aug 19, 2018)

“Just burn the fucking tree, make some fucking charcoal, and let your fucking worms inoculate it before you add it to your soil mix. Not everything is rocket science.”
-Altre E. Geau


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## TheBeardedBudzman (Aug 19, 2018)

So after a half day of studying while slightly manic I learned that :

The product of burning “woody”, organic materials with the absence of oxygen is charcoal. Charcoal is like a unique super-hotel for beneficial micro life, in that it can hold a whole lot more for a very long time. This also makes for excellent nutrient (and water) retention. It raises carbon content in soil exponentially.

But it’s just charcoal until it’s inoculated and filled up with all that micro life, otherwise it’s just burnt fucking useless woody shit. 

As far as palm trees go, the only reason they’re used specifically to make charcoals is because there is typically an abundance of fronds, coconut husks and trees in places where the ground is nothing but sand. They’re a pain in the ass for counties to dispose of. 

Microorganisms would literally have to evolve to be able to break down that carbon material so it’s no wonder it’s so valuable. 

Some Ways to inoculate biochar: 
1. Mix it with castings and let it alone a while 
2. Add to compost pile, 2-6 months 
3. Add to worm bin 
4. Mix with fresh hot green grass clippings (this way is for bitches)
5. Let your chickens scratch and piss and shit all over it for a while


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## ACitizenofColorado (Sep 13, 2018)

Bump... This thread needs more love. I love the EWC my worms produce. It's a beautiful thing to see and be a part of.


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## hillbill (Sep 14, 2018)

Been at it about 9 months and have castings in mixes and 40 pounds on hand. They do a great job on trim. Odorless and surprisingly unmessy.


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## stoned-monkey (Sep 16, 2018)

Worm farmers AND bokashi composters, do you put meat in you bokashi then feed it to your worms? 
Seems like a no-no but if its organic compost then maybe.


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## Kushash (Oct 6, 2018)

Hello fellow farmers!

1000 redworms being shipped Monday by Uncle Jim for my new worm factory 360.


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## hillbill (Oct 6, 2018)

My worm farm came with cloth “filters”. Just what is the material called?


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## jungle666 (Oct 8, 2018)

Anyone made their own worm farm , cheers j


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## Buck Twofifty (Oct 25, 2018)

I use 25 G fabric pots loaded with aged horse manure, and amended with kelp meal, neem cake, Cascade Minerals basalt, malted barley flour, spent mushroom substrate(horse manure/vermiculite), oyster shell flour, and meal worm frass, load with 3,000-3,500 red worms, then cover with straw. This is my standard procedure for making EWC. However, since I am fortunate enough to have approximately one dozen- 3 cu ft bags of meal worm frass on hand, I am currently aging a 25 G fabric pot filled with mostly frass, some canna scraps and stems, straw, and I will amend with the standard inputs before populating with 3k-3.5k red wigglers. As the horse manure has produced results that blow away even the best bagged castings that I have purchased, I am interested in finding out what kind of quality results are obtained from using the frass as the bulk of my starting material, rather than the horse manure. If anyone has any experience doing something similar, I would be interested in hearing about it. Thanks.


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## thump easy (Oct 25, 2018)

Buck Twofifty said:


> I use 25 G fabric pots loaded with aged horse manure, and amended with kelp meal, neem cake, Cascade Minerals basalt, malted barley flour, spent mushroom substrate(horse manure/vermiculite), oyster shell flour, and meal worm frass, load with 3,000-3,500 red worms, then cover with straw. This is my standard procedure for making EWC. However, since I am fortunate enough to have approximately one dozen- 3 cu ft bags of meal worm frass on hand, I am currently aging a 25 G fabric pot filled with mostly frass, some canna scraps and stems, straw, and I will amend with the standard inputs before populating with 3k-3.5k red wigglelrs. As the horse manure has produced results that blow away even the best bagged castings that I have purchased, I am interested in finding out what kind of quality results are obtained from using the frass as the bulk of my starting material, rather than the horse manure. If anyone has any experience doing something similar, I would be interested in hearing about it. Thanks.


I met a real big guy Xxxx Man Buds from this forum i drove up north with jozikins and fucken blew me away 120 fucker off of like a few plants i think like 2 but i could be wrong i asked him how he sead with horse shit and kelp i couldn't fucken believe it.. By the way Hope Things panned out tree man!!!!! Best of luck. But ya fucken blew meaway


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## Avant_Gardener (Apr 2, 2019)

I'm using Coco Coir with saw dust, I found a clean organic "free" supply of saw dust but it's from Cedar trees. My question is . Will Cedar saw dust be too strong for a worm bin?


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## getogrow (Apr 9, 2019)

stoned-monkey said:


> Worm farmers AND bokashi composters, do you put meat in you bokashi then feed it to your worms?
> Seems like a no-no but if its organic compost then maybe.


If you ferment the meat with bokashi for a week or so then yes , the worms will eat the meat before any problems occur. I never have a lot of meat leftover but im sure the bokashi would pre compost it for you to put in the bin.


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## getogrow (Apr 9, 2019)

jungle666 said:


> Anyone made their own worm farm , cheers j


Yes. Very easy and almost free. 1- 20gallon tote to start......drill very small holes in it everywhere. Get you a bucket of water/any water.....start tearing up newspaper and throw it in bucket of water. wring the paper out so its about 30% wet still .....fill the bottom of your tote with the wet newspaper. Throw a lil food on top of the paper, then cover the food with more paper and put the worms in....bin is done. 

Food= any kind of green leaves , leftover food and a scoop of dirt/any dirt. grass clippings, trim, flowers, any veggies , even if starting to rot, bread.
Keep out: any foods with a lot of oil in them , meat and cheese. (meat and cheese are fine but take too long to compost so it will start stinking if you use too much) oil will kill them. 
tips: if they are grouping up at the top of the bin , they want out which means something is wrong in there, its usually too wet or too dry add stuff to make it right. (you'll learn QUICK) 
the bin should be around 50% brown/dry material and 50% green/wet material. Browns: paper, dry grass, dry leaves, wood dust , anything "dead". Greens: anything alive...leaves grass and leftover foods.
the bin will take care of itself mostly. you start with paper and food and end up with pure castings made BY YOU. 

(do not try to name the worms .....way too many HAHAHAHAH)


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## getogrow (Apr 9, 2019)

Avant_Gardener said:


> I'm using Coco Coir with saw dust, I found a clean organic "free" supply of saw dust but it's from Cedar trees. My question is . Will Cedar saw dust be too strong for a worm bin?


it will keep out a lot of pesky knats but im really not sure on using cedar. i cannot see a reason why not. something worth looking into. if it was me i would just do it an see what happens......i have never lost a whole worm bin in over 10 years.


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## hillbill (Apr 9, 2019)

Cedars are very protective of themselves.


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## crittertime (Apr 27, 2020)

Can we revitalize this thread? I just started worm composting last week! Paid a guy on Craigslist $8 and he scooped out red wrigglers from his compost bin to fill 32 oz can for me. No telling how many there are, but they seem happy -- no smell, no escapees, just rotting food and worm poo. Problem is that my house's waste outpaces these worms' appetite. So I ordered 2250 more online yesterday to hopefully turn all our cardboard and food scraps into the good stuff


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## getogrow (Apr 28, 2020)

crittertime said:


> Can we revitalize this thread? I just started worm composting last week! Paid a guy on Craigslist $8 and he scooped out red wrigglers from his compost bin to fill 32 oz can for me. No telling how many there are, but they seem happy -- no smell, no escapees, just rotting food and worm poo. Problem is that my house's waste outpaces these worms' appetite. So I ordered 2250 more online yesterday to hopefully turn all our cardboard and food scraps into the good stuff


your on the right path ! order more worms .....them guys are quick too.....couple months each time. you'll have a giant pile of the good black gold. They also breed very fast , so that should be your last order. The bigger your bin the more worms will breed, the more food in there the more they eat instead of breed but trust me ,. if you keep um happy you will never run out and youll be able to start 50 more bins with your own worms if ya wantt.


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## getogrow (Apr 28, 2020)

egg shells take forever to break down , so dont use as many or crush them real good first. Potatoes want to grow in the bin so you may want to break them up a lil bit first. whole Onions like to hang around long enough to stink.....quarter them before putting them in. meat and cheese is fine but same thing it takes too long to break down an will cause stink...avoid.


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## crittertime (Apr 28, 2020)

getogrow said:


> egg shells take forever to break down , so dont use as many or crush them real good first. Potatoes want to grow in the bin so you may want to break them up a lil bit first. whole Onions like to hang around long enough to stink.....quarter them before putting them in. meat and cheese is fine but same thing it takes too long to break down an will cause stink...avoid.


Thanks so much! Will you give em citrus? I'm juicing limes every week  From what I've read, there seems to be a divided house on sharing peels with the worms


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## Mohican (Apr 28, 2020)

Citrus farmer told me he fed them to the worms without any problems.


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## hillbill (Apr 29, 2020)

Hope they like thawed frozen peas


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## Mohican (Apr 29, 2020)

I just throw frozen stuff out in my garden directly.


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## loco41 (Apr 29, 2020)

crittertime said:


> Can we revitalize this thread? I just started worm composting last week! Paid a guy on Craigslist $8 and he scooped out red wrigglers from his compost bin to fill 32 oz can for me. No telling how many there are, but they seem happy -- no smell, no escapees, just rotting food and worm poo. Problem is that my house's waste outpaces these worms' appetite. So I ordered 2250 more online yesterday to hopefully turn all our cardboard and food scraps into the good stuff


I just set two more new bins up a couple months or so ago. Trying my homemade compost out as the bedding on these new bins and things are going well so far. I'll post some pictures of them currently sometime soon as I love seeing what other people have going as well.

I also just mixed up my first attempt at making some bokashi bran. Doing a really small batch for now but plan on feeding most of this bran through the bins. Anyone using the bokashi bran in the bins on a semi-frequent basis?


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## Dreaming1 (Apr 29, 2020)

I've got worms. Three 5gal buckets system. Doing great. When I change the contents, I'll divide these worms and start around 20gal containers. 
Anyone ever buy a vegetable they don't even like just to feed the worms?


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## getogrow (Apr 30, 2020)

crittertime said:


> Thanks so much! Will you give em citrus? I'm juicing limes every week  From what I've read, there seems to be a divided house on sharing peels with the worms


This is more proof that you dont need to PH anything in containers. 
Yes , i give them everything except the things i mentioned above. Im assuming what they mean when they say not to give too much citrus is that if you used citrus ONLY to feed them , then the mix may get too acidic for the worms ? Thats completely plausible. As long as your feeding other things then the microbiology of the container will stay proper.



loco41 said:


> I also just mixed up my first attempt at making some bokashi bran. Doing a really small batch for now but plan on feeding most of this bran through the bins. Anyone using the bokashi bran in the bins on a semi-frequent basis?


It sure wont hurt. ive added plenty of bokashi bran to my bins but never fed bokashi only. The organisms in the bokashi are completely different then the aerobic bacteria we all love. I would add it to the bins but not so much as to "waaste" the bran. That bran is so full of life ....it almost seems like a waste because the worm bin is so full of life on its own. Thats just my rambling opinions. 
I cannot see anything wrong with doing so.


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## getogrow (Apr 30, 2020)

Dreaming1 said:


> I've got worms. Three 5gal buckets system. Doing great. When I change the contents, I'll divide these worms and start around 20gal containers.
> Anyone ever buy a vegetable they don't even like just to feed the worms?


no but thats thug shit right there! much respect for your worms !! you sir, are my idol for the day. I LOVE ORGANICS !!!


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## loco41 (May 1, 2020)

Just threw in some cantaloupe scraps yesterday so figured I'd snap some pics of the bins. Also a picture of the bokashi bran I'm attempting, not really sure how that's going though as it's a first attempt.


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## crittertime (May 3, 2020)

Just harvested a big ol' jug of worm castings for the first time. Felt kinda bad taking it from the lil buggers -- they looked so happy nestled in their dirt.

Anyhow, I was wondering just what it is exactly is in worm castings. Everyone knows its good for growing, but why? What does it do? Off to research


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## hillbill (May 4, 2020)

Light NPK values which are immediately available to plants and tons of mi robes. Also have Earthworm Mites and Springtails, Psuedo Scorpions and other tiny things and their frass as well. Humic acid enzymes also. Castings are extremely refined compost and you can see yourself with a good glass.
I use Greensand and very fine bring limestone, a bit of Azomite for grit. A lot of “grit” sifts through with castings which is fine with Hillbill.

It is also a lot of fun.


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## Mohican (May 4, 2020)

The health of you plants will improve mightily


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## crittertime (May 7, 2020)

Hey friends. I just read here that using synthetic fertilizers kills most or all of the microbes in the soil food web.

I was about to top dress my plants with my homemade worm castings and feed with Tiger Bloom. I was even going to use a full recommended dose since my plants are showing signs of deficiency in their third week of flower. Turns out Fox Farm nutrients have synthetic ingredients. So now I'm kinda at a stand-still on whether I should use my worm castings now, or save them for an all-organic grow.

Do any of y'all use synthetic fertilizers? Do you believe that they kill living soil? Would my use of this fertilizer make the worm castings useless?


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## loco41 (May 7, 2020)

crittertime said:


> Hey friends. I just read here that using synthetic fertilizers kills most or all of the microbes in the soil food web.
> 
> I was about to top dress my plants with my homemade worm castings and feed with Tiger Bloom. I was even going to use a full recommended dose since my plants are showing signs of deficiency in their third week of flower. Turns out Fox Farm nutrients have synthetic ingredients. So now I'm kinda at a stand-still on whether I should use my worm castings now, or save them for an all-organic grow.
> 
> Do any of y'all use synthetic fertilizers? Do you believe that they kill living soil? Would my use of this fertilizer make the worm castings useless?


I personally use as little bottled things as possible. Only three bottles I have are fish hydrolysate, therm x(yucca extract), and em1. I am in the camp of building the soil full of all the nutrients and then maintaining the soil via a topdress or a nute tea if needed during the grow. That said, I have always had plenty of room for improvement on all my grows, but I have also been happy with the end product.

I know there are a lot of other people using bottled nutrients along with their well built soils. I'm not sure of the quality or ingredients in the products they use, but I've seen beautiful plants from going this route.

Cool thing about having the worm bin is that you, ideally/hopefully, have a steady supply of vermicompost so that you can always replenish some microbes.


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## crittertime (May 7, 2020)

loco41 said:


> Cool thing about having the worm bin is that you, ideally/hopefully, have a steady supply of vermicompost so that you can always replenish some microbes.


Ahh, big brain time


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## snowdog203 (May 10, 2020)

Hmmm just food for thought. I zap my veggies (less than 1%) in the microwave to keep the flies and such to a minimum. I use 99% coffee grounds and whirly grind all my egg shells the other less than 1%. The worms have been thriving for nearly a decade with this diet. I think I'll start making compost tea this week for my first legal outdoor grow. Darn polar vortex has me playing the waiting game. Also top dressing with straight vermi-compost typically turns to a hard shell and some folk don't recommend it for this reason. My feeling about bottled nutes is if it grew in soil (mother nature) it should get along without the bottles. My attitude is if it grows well, looks good and I did it without buying bottles, more power to me. Glad this thread is up and running. Now that things are legal in a few places, maybe natural growing be revived.


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## crittertime (May 11, 2020)

snowdog203 said:


> Also top dressing with straight vermi-compost typically turns to a hard shell and some folk don't recommend it for this reason.


I've been seeing that! What do you recommend to mix into the vermicompost to make it more useable?


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## chakup (May 13, 2020)

Add some mulch on top of your top dress, it'll keep the "top layer" nice and moist and happy.


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## snowdog203 (Oct 26, 2020)

crittertime said:


> I've been seeing that! What do you recommend to mix into the vermicompost to make it more useable?


Not a big user of Perlite but have used it to mix with vermicompost. *I like* the way I can feel the vermi "mud" get macerated by my hands when I rub the Perlite and Vermicompost together!


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## 4ftRoots (Oct 30, 2020)

crittertime said:


> I've been seeing that! What do you recommend to mix into the vermicompost to make it more useable?


Sand! It is already a huge component of soil. Worms use it for grit. Win win.


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## Bears_win (Nov 5, 2020)

crittertime said:


> Hey friends. I just read here that using synthetic fertilizers kills most or all of the microbes in the soil food web.
> 
> I was about to top dress my plants with my homemade worm castings and feed with Tiger Bloom. I was even going to use a full recommended dose since my plants are showing signs of deficiency in their third week of flower. Turns out Fox Farm nutrients have synthetic ingredients. So now I'm kinda at a stand-still on whether I should use my worm castings now, or save them for an all-organic grow.
> 
> Do any of y'all use synthetic fertilizers? Do you believe that they kill living soil? Would my use of this fertilizer make the worm castings useless?


I don’t think ew castings would be “useless” because your using tiger bloom, it’s definitely nit going to cause your microbe population to thrive though..maybe like the poster above says .. try some fish hydrolysate ( vital earth Brand is my fav).. I find if your gonna go organic / then maximize synergy.

The anecdotal evidence I have is ...
I am mostly organic, hugels, knf, try to create a living web... but also use epsom salt in my regime. Worms are thriving and living in my soil. Epsom salt is magnesium sulphate, a white crystalline and I use it sparingly with seemingly healthy soil.

But Dyor maybe run a side by side with tiger bloom vs a more organic fertilizer.


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## getogrow (Nov 11, 2020)

Bears_win said:


> I don’t think ew castings would be “useless” because your using tiger bloom, it’s definitely nit going to cause your microbe population to thrive though..maybe like the poster above says .. try some fish hydrolysate ( vital earth Brand is my fav).. I find if your gonna go organic / then maximize synergy.
> 
> The anecdotal evidence I have is ...
> I am mostly organic, hugels, knf, try to create a living web... but also use epsom salt in my regime. Worms are thriving and living in my soil. Epsom salt is magnesium sulphate, a white crystalline and I use it sparingly with seemingly healthy soil.
> ...


i agree with this 100%. a little tiny bit of salt that the plant is going to eat quickly is not going to do much harm to your soil food web. "Synthetic nutes kill the microherd" is a very bold statment. Studies are being done everyday finally. Organics are still not fully understood by the masses but we know it tastes better then hydro grown. 
If you are having problems with 100% organics then add some synthetic food so they survive. Thats the number one problem with most organic growers. Were scared to put chems in our living soil therefor we have a def almost always. Add some of what the plant needs and go from there.....


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## hillbill (Nov 11, 2020)

99%+ organic here but still give a little 20-20-20 Peters watering early if anything looks like lacking. The Herd will not even notice small, occasional amounts. Not a purist.


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## raggyb (Nov 11, 2020)

I killed every worm (homemade indoor bin). Hoping to give it another go in 2022.


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## getogrow (Nov 11, 2020)

raggyb said:


> I killed every worm (homemade indoor bin). Hoping to give it another go in 2022.


Had a friend do the same. how? mine took care of itself almost. i just had to empty out the bin every once in a while a put fresh paper in there with some table scraps of about any kind.


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## @EastCoastGenetix (Nov 11, 2020)

I am about to try an experiment lol. I'm in a 3x3 with a 3x3 No-Till bed. I just finished my first cycle with No-Till and it went beautiful. I had a learning curve with my LED's but that was a different animal. But anyways, I just bought a pound of red wigglers to split between 3 beds. All my tents are basically identical in setup. But the experiment is trying to compost directly in the beds! I smash down my cover crop when it gets tall and I have noticed a nice thick mat of brown mulch under what's still growing. So I figure if I add chopped scraps when I top dress and smash down the tall cover crop. I could get that brown layer of mulch to form on top. It's just a theory. What say you, worm farmers lol?


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## @EastCoastGenetix (Nov 11, 2020)

getogrow said:


> i agree with this 100%. a little tiny bit of salt that the plant is going to eat quickly is not going to do much harm to your soil food web. "Synthetic nutes kill the microherd" is a very bold statment. Studies are being done everyday finally. Organics are still not fully understood by the masses but we know it tastes better then hydro grown.
> If you are having problems with 100% organics then add some synthetic food so they survive. Thats the number one problem with most organic growers. Were scared to put chems in our living soil therefor we have a def almost always. Add some of what the plant needs and go from there.....


I am lol I search and read the labels of everything. But I would bite the bullet so my plant wouldn't die but definitely sparingly lol


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## raggyb (Nov 12, 2020)

getogrow said:


> Had a friend do the same. how? mine took care of itself almost. i just had to empty out the bin every once in a while a put fresh paper in there with some table scraps of about any kind.


I don't know! I got all kinds of advice but couldn't figure it out. Maybe I shouldn't put used soil mix in. But I'll remake the bin. For one thing, I'm locking them in somehow with no way to crawl out.


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## raggyb (Nov 12, 2020)

@EastCoastGenetix said:


> I am about to try an experiment lol. I'm in a 3x3 with a 3x3 No-Till bed. I just finished my first cycle with No-Till and it went beautiful. I had a learning curve with my LED's but that was a different animal. But anyways, I just bought a pound of red wigglers to split between 3 beds. All my tents are basically identical in setup. But the experiment is trying to compost directly in the beds! I smash down my cover crop when it gets tall and I have noticed a nice thick mat of brown mulch under what's still growing. So I figure if I add chopped scraps when I top dress and smash down the tall cover crop. I could get that brown layer of mulch to form on top. It's just a theory. What say you, worm farmers lol?


with my luck the worms would crawl out of the pot and die on the floor.


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## getogrow (Nov 12, 2020)

raggyb said:


> I don't know! I got all kinds of advice but couldn't figure it out. Maybe I shouldn't put used soil mix in. But I'll remake the bin. For one thing, I'm locking them in somehow with no way to crawl out.


My totes had lids but i never kept them tight. You want them to be able to crawl out , that way you know whats going on in there. IF they are crawling out, then something is wrong and needs fixed asap. Usually its from being too wet/dry or time to take the castings out.
I threw handfuls of soil in there but never a lot. Again, i need to be able to see the newspaper/cardboard and the scraps actually turn into soil vs soil already being in there. also tells me when its time to remove the castings/make new bedding.



@EastCoastGenetix said:


> I am about to try an experiment lol. I'm in a 3x3 with a 3x3 No-Till bed. I just finished my first cycle with No-Till and it went beautiful. I had a learning curve with my LED's but that was a different animal. But anyways, I just bought a pound of red wigglers to split between 3 beds. All my tents are basically identical in setup. But the experiment is trying to compost directly in the beds! I smash down my cover crop when it gets tall and I have noticed a nice thick mat of brown mulch under what's still growing. So I figure if I add chopped scraps when I top dress and smash down the tall cover crop. I could get that brown layer of mulch to form on top. It's just a theory. What say you, worm farmers lol?


Composting directly in the beds could be bad for the roots. when there is too much microbial activity going on then it takes focus away from the roots and plants and gears towards helping the worms. This is the best i could explain it but there is research to read up on out there.


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## raggyb (Nov 14, 2020)

getogrow said:


> My totes had lids but i never kept them tight. You want them to be able to crawl out , that way you know whats going on in there. IF they are crawling out, then something is wrong and needs fixed asap. Usually its from being too wet/dry or time to take the castings out.
> I threw handfuls of soil in there but never a lot. Again, i need to be able to see the newspaper/cardboard and the scraps actually turn into soil vs soil already being in there. also tells me when its time to remove the castings/make new bedding.


I guess I'll not put soil in next round, that sounds like a good idea to try. I read that rodents eat worms. I wouldn't want to attract mice to worms on the floor. Any thoughts on mice and worms?


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## Northwood (Nov 14, 2020)

raggyb said:


> I guess I'll not put soil in next round, that sounds like a good idea to try. I read that rodents eat worms. I wouldn't want to attract mice to worms on the floor. Any thoughts on mice and worms?


Mice are omnivores and will eat nearly anything, perhaps even your plants. I suggest keeping mice out of the grow room. lol


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## raggyb (Nov 14, 2020)

Northwood said:


> Mice are omnivores and will eat nearly anything, perhaps even your plants. I suggest keeping mice out of the grow room. lol


I've only noticed one result i know of mouse probably on my weed. must have eaten a whole bud. he was doing circles on the floor in the basement and i didn't have the heart to kill him. found dead next day. hope i never get that high.


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## Northwood (Nov 14, 2020)

raggyb said:


> I've only noticed one result i know of mouse probably on my weed. must have eaten a whole bud. he was doing circles on the floor in the basement and i didn't have the heart to kill him. found dead next day. hope i never get that high.


Oh my, poor mousy. We can only hope he died with a huge smile on his face! lol

Well since you have them, the best solution is to add a higher trophic level to your grow. Consider getting a cat or two, preferably a breed that doesn't shed much so you don't have a lot of cat hair stuck to your buds 

This summer I had a damn rodent tease me with my outdoor grow on the patio deck. It was a chipmunk, and he'd go hide in the big bins I was growing in, but peer out of the foliage while standing on its hind legs. It was the damn cutest thing I think I've ever seen, and I grabbed by phone to take a photo a few times, only to have him duck down again. He was photo shy, which was a shame. It would have been a classic pic! lol


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## raggyb (Nov 14, 2020)

Northwood said:


> Oh my, poor mousy. We can only hope he died with a huge smile on his face! lol
> 
> Well since you have them, the best solution is to add a higher trophic level to your grow. Consider getting a cat or two, preferably a breed that doesn't shed much so you don't have a lot of cat hair stuck to your buds
> 
> This summer I had a damn rodent tease me with my outdoor grow on the patio deck. It was a chipmunk, and he'd go hide in the big bins I was growing in, but peer out of the foliage while standing on its hind legs. It was the damn cutest thing I think I've ever seen, and I grabbed by phone to take a photo a few times, only to have him duck down again. He was photo shy, which was a shame. It would have been a classic pic! lol


haha, i think my cat was too old to hunt at the time. but i'm thinking of putting the worms in a spot that the cat cannot access. chipmunk got in once too. as long as it's not racoons. mice would like this spot.


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## getogrow (Nov 16, 2020)

raggyb said:


> I guess I'll not put soil in next round, that sounds like a good idea to try. I read that rodents eat worms. I wouldn't want to attract mice to worms on the floor. Any thoughts on mice and worms?


When i did have bad mice , they never ever fucked with my worm bin. It does have a lid so they wouldnt have much luck anyways. Ive NEVER smelled anything bad in the bin except when i used too many onions. It smelled oiniony for a week ish. i just dont put onions in there no more. Ive put rotted food in there .....cover it up with paper and such and it covers the smell and turns the bad bacteria into good bacteria in a few hours. 

When the mice were real bad they were destroying the dirt in my pots to make homes but they never hurt anything really. those are long gone now. None of my dogs have ever cared about the bin either...


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## Northwood (Nov 16, 2020)

getogrow said:


> None of my dogs have ever cared about the bin either...


Oh boy, this reminds me of something that happened a few years ago. One of my bins was too moist, so I stirred it up to ensure it was aerobic, and left the cover off with the light on. Someone in the house must have left the door to that basement room open when getting something because the next day I found cat turds in there. Damn cat!

I said F it, and just let the worms work on it with a bunch of new material I added. The EWCs were destined for outside ornamental use anyway. Beware the cat.


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## raggyb (Nov 16, 2020)

getogrow said:


> When i did have bad mice , they never ever fucked with my worm bin. It does have a lid so they wouldnt have much luck anyways. Ive NEVER smelled anything bad in the bin except when i used too many onions. It smelled oiniony for a week ish. i just dont put onions in there no more. Ive put rotted food in there .....cover it up with paper and such and it covers the smell and turns the bad bacteria into good bacteria in a few hours.
> 
> When the mice were real bad they were destroying the dirt in my pots to make homes but they never hurt anything really. those are long gone now. None of my dogs have ever cared about the bin either...


ok that's one more vote for not worrying about mice thanks. I knew not to put onions in there, and no garlic, no citrus. Could have been salts in the soil but I don't recall if it was that time when i had salts. I thought the bin was too cold but then probably not. So I can just put a lot of wetted down shredded paper in and veggie scraps and nothing else except for something gritty? That's enough?


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## getogrow (Nov 20, 2020)

raggyb said:


> ok that's one more vote for not worrying about mice thanks. I knew not to put onions in there, and no garlic, no citrus. Could have been salts in the soil but I don't recall if it was that time when i had salts. I thought the bin was too cold but then probably not. So I can just put a lot of wetted down shredded paper in and veggie scraps and nothing else except for something gritty? That's enough?


Yes sir. thats all ive ever used. 
Yes i do throw soil in there here and there but not much. just enough to help them eat and to make my bin a lil bigger. The main bedding is just paper and scraps. (my layer of "grit" was a handful of soil) 
My temps ranged from about 50-80f in a basement. They would all collect by the top if something was wrong....soon as i fixed it they would go right back down. It was almost always time to get the castings out.


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## raggyb (Nov 20, 2020)

getogrow said:


> Yes sir. thats all ive ever used.
> Yes i do throw soil in there here and there but not much. just enough to help them eat and to make my bin a lil bigger. The main bedding is just paper and scraps. (my layer of "grit" was a handful of soil)
> My temps ranged from about 50-80f in a basement. They would all collect by the top if something was wrong....soon as i fixed it they would go right back down. It was almost always time to get the castings out.


allright alright!. I have to remember this, paper and scraps, paper and scraps...is all I need. So I was thinking of making an indoor bin that's something like this; make 3 square frames with pressure treated 2x6 for the sides to be 3 levels sitting one on top of the other. the top one is stapled over with landscape fabric to let air in. between top and middle is a somewhat fine mesh chicken wire screen. between middle and bottom section is landscape fabric with another chicken wire under it for support it, so only liquid goes into the bottom section. and the bottom sits on a plastic tray. So usually the worms scraps and paper go in the middle bin. But I can put food in the top bin to attract them up and harvest the castings. Also the top bin could be used for sifting worms if the fabric cover comes off. And some sort of cheapo lifting handles on the sides.


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## raggyb (Nov 20, 2020)

Noticed this suggesting copper toxicity should not be a problem in compost soil? Is copper toxicity anything to worry about? I think the new pressure treat chemicals they use AQC should be safer

Although AQC will release as much or more copper into the soil as CCA-treated lumber, Lebow notes that copper's lower toxicity, especially compared to arsenic, raises fewer environmental concerns about using AQC (References 2, pages 7-. According to Oregon State University Extension Agent Sam Angima, studies of leaching in CCA lumber show that the acidity of composts high in organic matter can increase the amount of copper, chromium and arsenic released from the wood, but the same organic acidity strongly binds these metals to the compost, making it difficult for plants to absorb them (see References 1). Compost from bins constructed of AQC-treated lumber, therefore, are likely to contain relatively high levels of copper, but that copper is less likely to be available to plants grown with that compost. Note, too, that copper is one of the micronutrients necessary for plant growth; as such it is reported in soil tests (see References 3). If you are concerned about copper levels in your compost, use soil tests to monitor copper.


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## 4ftRoots (Nov 21, 2020)

@EastCoastGenetix said:


> I am about to try an experiment lol. I'm in a 3x3 with a 3x3 No-Till bed. I just finished my first cycle with No-Till and it went beautiful. I had a learning curve with my LED's but that was a different animal. But anyways, I just bought a pound of red wigglers to split between 3 beds. All my tents are basically identical in setup. But the experiment is trying to compost directly in the beds! I smash down my cover crop when it gets tall and I have noticed a nice thick mat of brown mulch under what's still growing. So I figure if I add chopped scraps when I top dress and smash down the tall cover crop. I could get that brown layer of mulch to form on top. It's just a theory. What say you, worm farmers lol?


This is basically what I do. I call it composting in place. Just make sure to create little pockets of material throughout the bed. For instance, compost top left, top middle, top right, middle left... ect. It basically creates pockets of nutrients in the soil.


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## Northwood (Nov 21, 2020)

@EastCoastGenetix said:


> I am about to try an experiment lol. I'm in a 3x3 with a 3x3 No-Till bed. I just finished my first cycle with No-Till and it went beautiful. I had a learning curve with my LED's but that was a different animal. But anyways, I just bought a pound of red wigglers to split between 3 beds. All my tents are basically identical in setup. But the experiment is trying to compost directly in the beds! I smash down my cover crop when it gets tall and I have noticed a nice thick mat of brown mulch under what's still growing. So I figure if I add chopped scraps when I top dress and smash down the tall cover crop. I could get that brown layer of mulch to form on top. It's just a theory. What say you, worm farmers lol?


This is what I do cycle after cycle. After knocking down the tall cover crop in early veg, I usually hold it down by adding all the stems and stuff from my last grow over it. Then I end up layering a hay or straw mulch over that just to keep everything moist below so that the stems and stalks decay faster. All that becomes food for the next grow after. I'm still in veg, and I can't find even a sign of the stems anymore. Then again, it's been an abnormally long veg for me trying to fill a 5X5 with a single plant. lol

Not only will you get a nice brown layer of mulch, but under that you'll develop a humus layer of really dark soil that the baby worms seem to love living in, while the adults tend to hang out a little further down. I've not only kept my worms alive, but have been able to multiply them to whatever numbers the amount of food in my pot will sustain after 7 grow cycles. I'm sure there are literally 10's of thousands of worms living happy fulfilling lives in there right now. Hahaha


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## getogrow (Nov 21, 2020)

raggyb said:


> allright alright!. I have to remember this, paper and scraps, paper and scraps...is all I need. So I was thinking of making an indoor bin that's something like this; make 3 square frames with pressure treated 2x6 for the sides to be 3 levels sitting one on top of the other. the top one is stapled over with landscape fabric to let air in. between top and middle is a somewhat fine mesh chicken wire screen. between middle and bottom section is landscape fabric with another chicken wire under it for support it, so only liquid goes into the bottom section. and the bottom sits on a plastic tray. So usually the worms scraps and paper go in the middle bin. But I can put food in the top bin to attract them up and harvest the castings. Also the top bin could be used for sifting worms if the fabric cover comes off. And some sort of cheapo lifting handles on the sides.


is your bin for only worms or plants too ? 
If just worms , then a single tote with small holes drilled all around it will work.....but it is easier to harvest castings if you stack two of them. The holes on the bottom need to be about an 1/8" ish so the worms can go through um. 
Once the one bin is starting to be mostly castings then put then second tote right on top of it with fresh bedding in the new tote.....within a week or two , all the worms will be in the top tote and all the castings will be in the bottom one.

Side note: My bins have never leaked "casting juice" or whatever they call it. i think thats too wet for their taste. (so little to zero runoff)


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## Northwood (Nov 21, 2020)

getogrow said:


> Side note: My bins have never leaked "casting juice" or whatever they call it. i think thats too wet for their taste. (so little to zero runoff)


This has been my experience as well, although if your bins are leaking it's at least a sign you have drainage and excess liquid/moisture is draining out 

I use the nested bin method, 4 bins making up 2 units. The excess 2 lids from the bottom bins are used to hold any awful liquid that might come out. It's never come close to being filled to overflow. Sometimes I have a little puddle inside the lid, but it just dries up in a day or two. Every couple of years I scrape the dried black hard stuff from the lids into the soil in the garden outdoors.


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## raggyb (Nov 23, 2020)

getogrow said:


> is your bin for only worms or plants too ?
> If just worms , then a single tote with small holes drilled all around it will work.....but it is easier to harvest castings if you stack two of them. The holes on the bottom need to be about an 1/8" ish so the worms can go through um.
> Once the one bin is starting to be mostly castings then put then second tote right on top of it with fresh bedding in the new tote.....within a week or two , all the worms will be in the top tote and all the castings will be in the bottom one.
> 
> Side note: My bins have never leaked "casting juice" or whatever they call it. i think thats too wet for their taste. (so little to zero runoff)


thanks hombre. worms only. I guess I could save even more money as a trial with a small tote with a tight cover and then many 1/16 holes in the sides because I can't stand them getting out and they shouldn't be able to squeeze through 1/16 tho I bet they'll try. Then cut a hole in the top and screen it for air flow. I guess then I can use an opaque bin since they can't get out anyway. For my earlier tries, trying to scare them down with light did not work.


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## getogrow (Nov 23, 2020)

raggyb said:


> thanks hombre. worms only. I guess I could save even more money as a trial with a small tote with a tight cover and then many 1/16 holes in the sides because I can't stand them getting out and they shouldn't be able to squeeze through 1/16 tho I bet they'll try. Then cut a hole in the top and screen it for air flow. I guess then I can use an opaque bin since they can't get out anyway. For my earlier tries, trying to scare them down with light did not work.


if light did not run them back into the soil/castings then something was way off in there. After breeding millions , ive never really had them fully escape. (i had a lid on the tote , so hundreds of them would be on the top , bundled up , trying to leave , then i would put fresh bedding in there and knock them all back into the tote and this time they would stay.)
Thats exactly what i did, just got a 20 gallon tote and drilled a couple hundred tiny holes. The bottom of the tote got 40 or 50 1/8" hole for them to come out when needed. They only use the 1/8" holes to travel to the next tote. they never come out the bottom. 

I take newspaper and cardboard and soak it in water for about 20 minutes , then i wring it out like a sponge to assure its not too wet. A layer of paper on bottom and top with any scraps in the middle with a sprinkle of dirt. thats it. When that paper turns into soil , its time to make the new bin.


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## P10p (Nov 23, 2020)

Use to always seal my lids and they would bunch up at the top due to the humidity imo.

I have since started leaving the lid slightly open and they stay in their bedding where they belong.


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## raggyb (Nov 23, 2020)

getogrow said:


> if light did not run them back into the soil/castings then something was way off in there. After breeding millions , ive never really had them fully escape. (i had a lid on the tote , so hundreds of them would be on the top , bundled up , trying to leave , then i would put fresh bedding in there and knock them all back into the tote and this time they would stay.)
> Thats exactly what i did, just got a 20 gallon tote and drilled a couple hundred tiny holes. The bottom of the tote got 40 or 50 1/8" hole for them to come out when needed. They only use the 1/8" holes to travel to the next tote. they never come out the bottom.
> 
> I take newspaper and cardboard and soak it in water for about 20 minutes , then i wring it out like a sponge to assure its not too wet. A layer of paper on bottom and top with any scraps in the middle with a sprinkle of dirt. thats it. When that paper turns into soil , its time to make the new bin.


thanks, great information. Would you say scraps and paper are in equal weights?


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## getogrow (Nov 24, 2020)

raggyb said:


> thanks, great information. Would you say scraps and paper are in equal weights?


Yes, 50/50 green and browns. (green is anything alive and browns are anything dead) from my experience , i would keep the browns a lil higher like 65% ish, that way its not too wet or too stinky. Its easy to add greens to a dry bin , its harder to take away the moisture with dry paper.


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## raggyb (Nov 24, 2020)

getogrow said:


> Yes, 50/50 green and browns. (green is anything alive and browns are anything dead) from my experience , i would keep the browns a lil higher like 65% ish, that way its not too wet or too stinky. Its easy to add greens to a dry bin , its harder to take away the moisture with dry paper.


excellente'. i try again soon!


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## Mohican (Nov 28, 2020)

Smart pots work amazing as worm bins.

Copper is used as a supplement to make oranges sweeter.


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## CrunchBerries (Dec 6, 2020)

Just finished this thread from start to finish! It’s been a real page turner! I was getting worried as I progressed that there wasn’t any new activity. Glad to see it’s still active! My worm bin and babies should be here early next week. Let the good times roll!


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## hillbill (Dec 6, 2020)

CrunchBerries said:


> Just finished this thread from start to finish! It’s been a real page turner! I was getting worried as I progressed that there wasn’t any new activity. Glad to see it’s still active! My worm bin and babies should be here early next week. Let the good times roll!


Been about 3 years here and having a worm farm is fun and interesting and makes incredible super compost. Learn more each day.


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## CrunchBerries (Dec 6, 2020)

hillbill said:


> Been about 3 years here and having a worm farm is fun and interesting and makes incredible super compost. Learn more each day.


Learn more each day indeed!


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## getogrow (Dec 6, 2020)

i moved a few years back and left my bin. im about ready to start a new one. i went to the local hydro store yesterday and was looking at their EWC in a bag. holy fuck was that shit cut up! no way in hell im buying a bag of that crap. it felt like 100% peat moss in the bag. fuck that. it was all spongy. Real EWC is rock hard soil. almost clay.


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## P10p (Dec 6, 2020)

getogrow said:


> i moved a few years back and left my bin. im about ready to start a new one. i went to the local hydro store yesterday and was looking at their EWC in a bag. holy fuck was that shit cut up! no way in hell im buying a bag of that crap. it felt like 100% peat moss in the bag. fuck that. it was all spongy. Real EWC is rock hard soil. almost clay.


Not necessarily, if the bedding is heavy on paper and not much else, yeah you end up with solid castings, if you bed in peat or coco, typically the product ends up lighter.

But that's just to the castings being like clay part. I still agree, I wouldn't buy castings forom a hydro store!


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## hillbill (Dec 6, 2020)

My Vermicompost improved dramatically when I added European Nightcrawlers to the bins with the red wrigglers, finer and faster with more goo.


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## JustBlazin (Dec 6, 2020)

hi all, ordered an urban work bag 2.0 a few weeks ago, should be here within a week or two(was on back order). So I'm a total noob to the worm bins and have a few questions.
1. Does it matter what kind of paper you use? I don't get to many papers but i get a shit ton of paper mail, can i use that? And how fine does it need to be shredded up?
not sure how much food scraps I'm going to put in as the wife doesn't even know I'm starting a worm farm 

2. Can i put in all my cannabis waste material? Big stalks and leaves, do i let the stuff dry out at all or put in in fresh? Or is there a ratio between the two?
also have some crushed oyster shell(bigger chunks) and oyster shell flour is that good to ad for some grit? Also have a bunch of gaia green dry amendments along with some neem meal that i could add if that would be beneficial for the worms/ewc 

3. How much works should i buy? 1/2 pound or a full pound? I really don't have a clue on how much i need. Oh and they are red wigglers, anyone ever put the worms people use for fishing in there bin? I can buy them in a vending machine...lol, says they are dew worms

if you can think of anything else that would help me out or that I've forgotten or things I should look out for or steer clear of please enlighten this noob.

much appreciated and thanks in advance for any tips and guidance


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## CrunchBerries (Dec 6, 2020)

JustBlazin said:


> hi all, ordered an urban work bag 2.0 a few weeks ago, should be here within a week or two(was on back order). So I'm a total noob to the worm bins and have a few questions.
> 1. Does it matter what kind of paper you use? I don't get to many papers but i get a shit ton of paper mail, can i use that? And how fine does it need to be shredded up?
> not sure how much food scraps I'm going to put in as the wife doesn't even know I'm starting a worm farm
> 
> ...


I would honestly read through the whole thread. I just finished myself and it was enlightening. All your questions are answered and more. This is the way.


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## raggyb (Dec 6, 2020)

CrunchBerries said:


> I would honestly read through the whole thread. I just finished myself and it was enlightening. All your questions are answered and more. This is the way.


I agree. I could offer thoughts even with utter failure would anyhow! I feel no to stalks or stems. if indoor in a bag my reads said red wigs and not earthworms. good luck.


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## raggyb (Dec 6, 2020)

I'm wondering if anyone knows if you can add hair, human or pet. pretty sure hair has N, so if not why not?


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## loco41 (Dec 6, 2020)

raggyb said:


> excellente'. i try again soon!


Good luck man. I remember reading about your previous trial, better luck this time hopefully. I would suggest doing like @getogrow said and try just a couple totes before investing in something bigger. Figure out a nice bedding mix to keep them happy first and go from there. I've been using leaf/yard waste compost in my bins for the bedding in two new bins and it seems to be working out nicely. Lots of diversity with springtails and sow bugs as well.

Every time I see this thread I'm reminded how little I actually do to maintain the bins. I've been meaning to harvest one bin completely and starting fresh with those worms for a while now as it's long overdue. Something like two years ago since the last time I fully harvested that bin and started with fresh bedding. I didn't have much success with the stacking method so I usually harvest by hand. I figure that way I leave plenty of worms/cocoons in the harvested mix to keep things going. I'll sprinkle some dry oats or amendments on top from time to time in the harvested bin just to keep things a little more active.


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## hillbill (Dec 7, 2020)

Hair/fur is fine at least in smaller amounts. Be careful with carpet vacuuming with pet hair as it can contain a lot of synthetic carpet fibers which are not broken down in your bin.


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## raggyb (Dec 7, 2020)

loco41 said:


> Good luck man. I remember reading about your previous trial, better luck this time hopefully. I would suggest doing like @getogrow said and try just a couple totes before investing in something bigger. Figure out a nice bedding mix to keep them happy first and go from there. I've been using leaf/yard waste compost in my bins for the bedding in two new bins and it seems to be working out nicely. Lots of diversity with springtails and sow bugs as well.
> 
> Every time I see this thread I'm reminded how little I actually do to maintain the bins. I've been meaning to harvest one bin completely and starting fresh with those worms for a while now as it's long overdue. Something like two years ago since the last time I fully harvested that bin and started with fresh bedding. I didn't have much success with the stacking method so I usually harvest by hand. I figure that way I leave plenty of worms/cocoons in the harvested mix to keep things going. I'll sprinkle some dry oats or amendments on top from time to time in the harvested bin just to keep things a little more active.


thanks, since i'm indoors I hesitate to use leaves from outside thinking it might bring bad bugs indoors. But maybe some herbs and edible flowers from outside because I can wash and dry them. i leave my indoors spider buddies alone they help a little bit. I would like to use fan leaves too. and paper shredding that's soaked. I have outdoor piles I use outdoors for the garden. I'll try again but I hope I have more luck.


----------



## getogrow (Dec 8, 2020)

raggyb said:


> thanks, since i'm indoors I hesitate to use leaves from outside thinking it might bring bad bugs indoors. But maybe some herbs and edible flowers from outside because I can wash and dry them. i leave my indoors spider buddies alone they help a little bit. I would like to use fan leaves too. and paper shredding that's soaked. I have outdoor piles I use outdoors for the garden. I'll try again but I hope I have more luck.


Im with loco. there was a year or two that went by that i didnt do anything at all and in the end , i just had less worms with a bin full of castings. 
If the bin is too wet or dry they want to leave. that is the most common reason they would want to leave. (if you had a bunch of tea coming out the bottom it was too wet ..... too dry is pretty easy to not fuck up. )
I would not worry about bringing in bugs from outside. they will not survive the worm bins. of course there are a few species that can escape , like knats but nothing that will hurt your plants. I have never had bugs in the bin besides rolly pollys. 

I would use all the trash from the plants except the biggest stems. they take too long to break down. If its still wet, put it in the "green" pile. if it is dry , put it in the brown pile. 

I dont do the traditional stacking method with my totes. I had one tote that i had been using , then i decided to up the production so i added another tote. I wait till the bottom tote is pretty close to "done" then i just toss the second tote on top with fresh bedding in it and it takes awhile but i would say in abnout 2-3 weeks , the majority of the worms will make it up to the new bin leaving thebottom bin to easily harvest without losing all your worms. 
Red wigglers/composting worms are the only species that like this style of composting. so you have to choose that type of worm for your bins. nightcrawlers are completely different in what they like and how they eat so they are out of the question.

Red wigglers do not like to go to deep in the soil so keep your bins under 20" deep. They breed so fast that a 1/4 lb is enough for about anyone.


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## getogrow (Dec 8, 2020)

JustBlazin said:


> hi all, ordered an urban work bag 2.0 a few weeks ago, should be here within a week or two(was on back order). So I'm a total noob to the worm bins and have a few questions.
> 1. Does it matter what kind of paper you use? I don't get to many papers but i get a shit ton of paper mail, can i use that? And how fine does it need to be shredded up?
> not sure how much food scraps I'm going to put in as the wife doesn't even know I'm starting a worm farm


Newspaper is best because its not shiny. Newspaper, brown paper bags, cardboard, ect.... yes i use my mail. i try not to get the glue in the bin or the lil plastic windows in the bills, other then that any paper will work. i have used the shiny paper too but its not recommended.

2. Can i put in all my cannabis waste material? Big stalks and leaves, do i let the stuff dry out at all or put in in fresh? Or is there a ratio between the two?
also have some crushed oyster shell(bigger chunks) and oyster shell flour is that good to ad for some grit? Also have a bunch of gaia green dry amendments along with some neem meal that i could add if that would be beneficial for the worms/ewc 
[/QUOTE]
Do not use the ganja green or any plant food. Yes all your cannabis material can go in there but the big stalks will take a while to break down so i would leave them out. 

3. How much works should i buy? 1/2 pound or a full pound? I really don't have a clue on how much i need. Oh and they are red wigglers, anyone ever put the worms people use for fishing in there bin? I can buy them in a vending machine...lol, says they are dew worms
[/QUOTE]
Use reds not crawlers. 1/2 lb should be plenty.


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## P10p (Dec 8, 2020)

getogrow said:


> Newspaper is best because its not shiny. Newspaper, brown paper bags, cardboard, ect.... yes i use my mail. i try not to get the glue in the bin or the lil plastic windows in the bills, other then that any paper will work. i have used the shiny paper too but its not recommended.
> 
> 2. Can i put in all my cannabis waste material? Big stalks and leaves, do i let the stuff dry out at all or put in in fresh? Or is there a ratio between the two?
> also have some crushed oyster shell(bigger chunks) and oyster shell flour is that good to ad for some grit? Also have a bunch of gaia green dry amendments along with some neem meal that i could add if that would be beneficial for the worms/ewc


Do not use the ganja green or any plant food. Yes all your cannabis material can go in there but the big stalks will take a while to break down so i would leave them out.

3. How much works should i buy? 1/2 pound or a full pound? I really don't have a clue on how much i need. Oh and they are red wigglers, anyone ever put the worms people use for fishing in there bin? I can buy them in a vending machine...lol, says they are dew worms
[/QUOTE]
Use reds not crawlers. 1/2 lb should be plenty.
[/QUOTE]

The worms would actually love the gaia in small amounts. Its literally just a combo of amendments, all which look safe/beneficial at first glance. All organic too.


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## CrunchBerries (Dec 8, 2020)

I haven’t begun my worm bin, but my experience with newspaper is that it does take a while to breakdown in my compost bin. I believe I read that it is clay based and doesn’t break down easily. Correct me if I’m wrong...


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## CrunchBerries (Dec 8, 2020)

CrunchBerries said:


> I haven’t begun my worm bin, but my experience with newspaper is that it does take a while to breakdown in my compost bin. I believe I read that it is clay based and doesn’t break down easily. Correct me if I’m wrong...


Am going to use coco, peat, dried leaves, cardboard and shredded paper grocery bags as bedding.


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## hillbill (Dec 8, 2020)

I have brought in hundreds of centipedes, more tha a couple 5 Lined Skink, unidentified reptile eggs and Spider Mites from outdoors. Lesson learned until next time.


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## myke (Dec 8, 2020)

Hello all work farmers. I’d like to get one started. I usually have 6-8 plants going at any time. What size tote would be a good start?im in Canada so if someone could point me to where and what kind of worms to get that would be great thanks.


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## CrunchBerries (Dec 8, 2020)

hillbill said:


> I have brought in hundreds of centipedes, more tha a couple 5 Lined Skink, unidentified reptile eggs and Spider Mites from outdoors. Lesson learned until next time.


If you freeze leaves for an extended period of time would that kill off most of what you describe. Or naw?


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## CrunchBerries (Dec 8, 2020)

CrunchBerries said:


> I haven’t begun my worm bin, but my experience with newspaper is that it does take a while to breakdown in my compost bin. I believe I read that it is clay based and doesn’t break down easily. Correct me if I’m wrong...


Quick note: I don’t turn my compost piles as much as I should which definitely plays a role in decomposition.


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## myke (Dec 8, 2020)

myke said:


> Hello all work farmers. I’d like to get one started. I usually have 6-8 plants going at any time. What size tote would be a good start?im in Canada so if someone could point me to where and what kind of worms to get that would be great thanks.


A quick check on what the bait shops have. Euro red wrigglers and night crawlers. lol have no clue what that means.


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## getogrow (Dec 8, 2020)

CrunchBerries said:


> I haven’t begun my worm bin, but my experience with newspaper is that it does take a while to breakdown in my compost bin. I believe I read that it is clay based and doesn’t break down easily. Correct me if I’m wrong...


I guess that would depend on how long your "while" is. Ripped up newspaper is my main bedding and it goes fast. Cardboard is about the same. 
Using peat/coco or soil as a bedding is going to be much harder to maintain and kinda defeats the purpose if you ask me. If you use paper as your bedding then there is *no question* on when its time to harvest. You put in 100% paper and scraps and when its done , its soil. clay like soil. Black Gold! You KNOW that its been through the full cycle of the worm bin.
When using peat/coco/soil as a base bedding then you never quite know when its "done" (but can be done successfully with a bit more work)

If you really want to "recharge" your soil/peat or coco then its much easier to put it in the regular compost bin and turn until its done. Then add all your amendments plus some fresh EWC.


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## getogrow (Dec 8, 2020)

myke said:


> A quick check on what the bait shops have. Euro red wrigglers and night crawlers. lol have no clue what that means.


i would stick with composting worms from a worm farmer on the internet. The euro red wigglers are pretty much the exact same except they have not been kept in an active worm bin .....they are in the fridge at the bait shop. It will take them longer to get used to all the food your are giving them at once in their new bin. If you get the ones from the internet , they go right to work. They are used to eating paper and scraps as their primary diet and they breed fast! 

Im thinking the bait shop red wigglers are bred for their size and not so much for their ability to eat and breed all day. They are always bigger then the "composting worms" from the net.


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## Mohican (Dec 8, 2020)

For big stems and branches I burn them for the char. Mix the char in the bin.


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## hillbill (Dec 8, 2020)

European Or Belgium Night Crawlers are Leaf and top layer inhabitants and will die if refrigerated, I sell them as bait. They are sold by most top compost worm dealers. Canadian Nightcrawlers are what you see in the bait shop refrigerator. They are deep soil dwellers and not suitable for most composting situations.


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## JustBlazin (Dec 10, 2020)

myke said:


> Hello all work farmers. I’d like to get one started. I usually have 6-8 plants going at any time. What size tote would be a good start?im in Canada so if someone could point me to where and what kind of worms to get that would be great thanks.


not sure what part of canada your from but if your in 
Ont 




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I'm sure if you looked around on google you might find a few places that sell them


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## myke (Dec 10, 2020)

I found a worm guy an hours drive away.Ill be picking them up over the holidays thx.


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## CrunchBerries (Dec 16, 2020)

Hey y’all,
Received my can o worms last week and is already set up. It came with a coco block, so added that and a mix of cardboard, paper bags, and dried leaves. Lasagna style! Pretty much followed the recipe in the pic below +- a few things.Worms are supposed to be here tomorrow!


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## CrunchBerries (Dec 16, 2020)

Was digging around in my compost pile and found clumps of worms in decaying matter. Thinking they may be red wrigglers as they they were found in a ball rather than more solitary. Should I add some to my bin?


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## JustBlazin (Dec 17, 2020)

any thoughts on using ground barley and ground oats from bulk barn instead of malted barley from a brewery store?
would it be the same? Or are they different products with different results?


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## thecosmicgoat (Dec 17, 2020)

Barley is just barley, malted is a process of sprouting the seed just abit. And in the malting process is where the enzymes and etc come from. 
You want malted barley.


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## JustBlazin (Dec 17, 2020)

thecosmicgoat said:


> Barley is just barley, malted is a process of sprouting the seed just abit. And in the malting process is where the enzymes and etc come from.
> You want malted barley.


 thanks for the reply
so if its not malted its not really worth using


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## hillbill (Dec 18, 2020)

Worms will use it, Alfalfa Meal is a partially fermented product.


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## CrunchBerries (Dec 19, 2020)

Received my worms first thing this morning! Thank you USPS! Worms were in great shape and took to their new home like pigs to shit. I am going to wait a few days and then feed them the food scrap mash I’ve been saving. Probably spread the mash over a half paper towel and lay on top. Moisture seems good as there are no signs of anybody trying to fly the coop. Man, I’m so excited for this project! I probably/definitely need to read through this thread again.


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## Northwood (Dec 19, 2020)

JustBlazin said:


> thanks for the reply
> so if its not malted its not really worth using


I've made beer by malting my own. It's easy, but takes about a week. If you're after enzymes for whatever reason, homemade might be a better option (it's definitely cheaper!). The last step to making malted barley during the kilning stage is to maintain a dry temperature of up to 200 F for a couple hours. That's hot enough to denature every enzymes that I know of, not to mention kill off all but the most hardy thermophilic bacteria. So by making it yourself at home (if not using it for beer) you could skip that last step and simply dry it out in a dehydrator or in your partially open oven on a cookie sheet with the oven light turned on only.

I don't think you'll find a lot of enzymes in commercial malted barley sold for the purpose of making great beer.


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## myke (Dec 19, 2020)

I was searching through kijiji this am and found a guy selling worm bins. Well what the hell now I’m the owner.
he said it was 3 weeks old. Only problem was the guy had a hard accent and I had trouble understanding him. Could only say excuse me so many times. Lol. Know about this thread I just gave up asking him questions.What I did make out was he feeds every Friday a large handful. Tote looks to be 15 gallon. Mix of shredded paper cardboard and old dried up leaves. Have no idea how many worms are in there. I’ll keep in the garage about 55f. Is there anything I should look out for the next while? I see food scraps so should be good for awhile. He did mention I should add grit. I have some rock dust any idea how much? Thx the pic is the bottom I just pushed some to the side


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## Northwood (Dec 19, 2020)

myke said:


> I have some rock dust any idea how much?


Exactly one handful per bin. LOL

They don't need much, and will accumulate what they require as they travel and process the soil. If it's inert mineral stuff, you really can't add too much anyway. But just a handful will definitely do you.


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## myke (Dec 19, 2020)

Thought I’d add some green lol. There’s no air holes in the tote. He said just leave the lid off. I can see my dog already with nose in the air ,so I’ll keep it up high. 
Reading here I remember about holes in the bottom. Can I just drill a bunch 1/16-1/8 in the bottom then put it on a rack. Or is just the lid off ok.


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## hillbill (Dec 19, 2020)

Been inspired here to include things like fossilized Guano and rock phosphate, Green Sand, hardwood ash, fine crush limestone etc in my “grit”. A certain amount ends up sifting through and goes in mixes and teas. About the only composts I use are my EWC and Back To Nature Cotton Burr Compost in equal amounts.


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## Northwood (Dec 19, 2020)

myke said:


> Thought I’d add some green lol. There’s no air holes in the tote. He said just leave the lid off. I can see my dog already with nose in the air ,so I’ll keep it up high.
> Reading here I remember about holes in the bottom. Can I just drill a bunch 1/16-1/8 in the bottom then put it on a rack. Or is just the lid off ok.


Is that for drainage or for worm migration to a top bin? Personally I make the holes bigger, nearly 5mm for migration to the upper bin. 3/16th inch drill bit is about perfect for my bin for either purpose. I drill a lot of them.


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## myke (Dec 19, 2020)

Northwood said:


> Is that for drainage or for worm migration to a top bin? Personally I make the holes bigger, nearly 5mm for migration to the upper bin. 3/16th inch drill bit is about perfect for my bin for either purpose. I drill a lot of them.


No this is just one bin. Thought maybe air holes were needed?


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## Northwood (Dec 19, 2020)

myke said:


> No this is just one bin. Thought maybe air holes were needed?


Yeah they are necessary to drain any excess liquid that might otherwise build up and kill your worms. Drill away! lol


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## myke (Dec 19, 2020)

Northwood said:


> Yeah they are necessary to drain any excess liquid that might otherwise build up and kill your worms. Drill away! lol


Ok thanks. Watching videos now of stacking worm bins.


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## Northwood (Dec 19, 2020)

myke said:


> Ok thanks. Watching videos now of stacking worm bins.


The stacking does work, but I wouldn't go beyond 2 nested bins for each unit because the compaction due to weight will make very anaerobic conditions. And I only put the next bin on top once the material in the bottom bin is to the volume I want it while all the materials are pretty much decomposed already. That's what makes your worms migrate to the upper level for the food not available in its previous area of residence.

I've never screened or whatever my castings, because bag appeal isn't important to me for my own grow. What is, is the life it introduces. You're gonna freak when your grow explodes with springtails and mites and shit. But don't let it scare you. You're doing the right thing, and having your own worm bin is an entry point I believe in organics that takes us to the next level.


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## myke (Dec 19, 2020)

Northwood said:


> The stacking does work, but I wouldn't go beyond 2 nested bins for each unit because the compaction due to weight will make very anaerobic conditions. And I only put the next bin on top once the material in the bottom bin is to the volume I want it while all the materials are pretty much decomposed already. That's what makes your worms migrate to the upper level for the food not available in its previous area of residence.
> 
> I've never screened or whatever my castings, because bag appeal isn't important to me for my own grow. What is, is the life it introduces. You're gonna freak when your grow explodes with springtails and mites and shit. But don't let it scare you. You're doing the right thing, and having your own worm bin is an entry point I believe in organics that takes us to the next level.


Ok great thanks for your time, I’ll get one for this one to sit in. Just so the juices can drip out. Cheers.


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## loco41 (Dec 20, 2020)

Northwood said:


> The stacking does work, but I wouldn't go beyond 2 nested bins for each unit because the compaction due to weight will make very anaerobic conditions. And I only put the next bin on top once the material in the bottom bin is to the volume I want it while all the materials are pretty much decomposed already. That's what makes your worms migrate to the upper level for the food not available in its previous area of residence.
> 
> I've never screened or whatever my castings, because bag appeal isn't important to me for my own grow. What is, is the life it introduces. You're gonna freak when your grow explodes with springtails and mites and shit. But don't let it scare you. You're doing the right thing, and having your own worm bin is an entry point I believe in organics that takes us to the next level.


I'm so thankful to have found forums that guided me to starting a worm bin. I have buddies that grow nice looking plants, but when I bring up my worm bins, they look at me like I fully lost my mind. I credit the little bit of success I have had so far being a newer grower to the vermicompost that gets created in the bins. Any signs of things being a little out of whack, a simple ewc topdress is always my first move. Plants always seem happier from it.

I might have to try the stacking method again. Might have to re-drill the bottom holes a bit bigger in my spare tote beforehand, but might actually get me to move these worms into some fresh bedding. About two years in that same bin and still going strong, happy and healthy from what I can tell.


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## TrippleDip (Dec 20, 2020)

Please help. Is my worm bin too dry and what is the best way to get it wet?

*Setup.* A bit over 1wk old, it consists of a wooden box on casters with a pvc grate at the bottom. Area is 2.5 sf and volume about 40 gallons. The initial bedding was 50:50 shredded paper and composted yard waste to a depth of 1". In the last week I have fed only three banana peels and a quarter of a banana, followed by shredded paper and dry leaves. 

*Problem.* It's too dry. It's certainly drier than the 60-90% recommended in the "worms eat my garbage" book. Every day I add about a cup of water to the top of the bin, and every day the bedding on top is dry and when I stick a finger up the bottom it is dry as well. The soil directly underneath the bedding is moist (not enough to squeeze water from, but it clumps together). I'm not sure how deep the moist layer is.

*Solution.* What's the best way forward from here?
a) not worry, the bottom will always dry out​b) not worry, the drying will slow as the soil gets deeper​c) start adding two or more cups of water per day until the whole bin is moist.​d) just water the bin like a planter to runoff​e) put plastic film over the bottom to reduce air flow​f) feed more wet food like tea leaves​
I am leaning towards d) water like a planter to runoff, probably close to a gallon of water required; should I water the whole bin or half today and half tomorrow?


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## Northwood (Dec 22, 2020)

TrippleDip said:


> Please help. Is my worm bin too dry and what is the best way to get it wet?
> 
> *Setup.* A bit over 1wk old, it consists of a wooden box on casters with a pvc grate at the bottom. Area is 2.5 sf and volume about 40 gallons. The initial bedding was 50:50 shredded paper and composted yard waste to a depth of 1". In the last week I have fed only three banana peels and a quarter of a banana, followed by shredded paper and dry leaves.
> 
> ...


The only time I had to add water was when I was wetting the paper and cardboard bedding and some dried leaves to start my bins before I even added the worms. And that was like 17 years ago, but never again. If you eat fruit and vegetables in your house, surely your bins can't be dry? I suggest visiting the Walmart discount food trays they have now and get a big bag of questionable cantaloupes or something for $2. Good amount of moisture in that food if your family is subsisting on saw dust! *kidding*


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## TrippleDip (Dec 23, 2020)

Northwood said:


> The only time I had to add water was when I was wetting the paper and cardboard bedding and some dried leaves to start my bins before I even added the worms. And that was like 17 years ago, but never again. If you eat fruit and vegetables in your house, surely your bins can't be dry? I suggest visiting the Walmart discount food trays they have now and get a big bag of questionable cantaloupes or something for $2. Good amount of moisture in that food if your family is subsisting on saw dust! *kidding*


Thanks. I'd like to go the route of regulating their water through their food, but also don't want to overfeed just staring out. I have a bunch of wet tea leaves for their next feeding. Clearance racks are a great idea btw, I usually avoid them because the food always goes bad, but now even that has a positive side.

It's so dry because the air is 20% humidity, 40% when running a humidifier, and both the top and bottom allow airflow through.

I actually went ahead and gave them a gallon of water and they seem much happier. Even adding a half gallon once a week is better than spraying a cup on the top every day, just from a work perspective.

Would still like to know, from those with flow through designs or worm inns, whether it would be better to keep adding water periodically, or try to restrict airflow with plastic wrap on the bottom?

---

Edit: the bin for anyone interested or looking for ideas. top is loose fitting and bin is 4" off the ground on casters


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## raggyb (Dec 23, 2020)

your design is very simple and I like it very much. I hope it works for you. I've had no luck with anything I tried but I already said that a bunch. I'm thinking of putting landscape fabric over the holes and sandwich that under a frame or try aquarium sealant so worms can't get through but extra moisture and worm urine does. It was inferred to me it shouldn't be necessary to lock them in if the worms are happy but I guess but mine prefered to crawl out for a quicker suicide so at the least this would keep them in and force them to get used to it hopefully. but anyway, i hope you let us know in a few months if covering with something or uncovered works because I have until 2022 to get this done, lol.




TrippleDip said:


> Thanks. I'd like to go the route of regulating their water through their food, but also don't want to overfeed just staring out. I have a bunch of wet tea leaves for their next feeding. Clearance racks are a great idea btw, I usually avoid them because the food always goes bad, but now even that has a positive side.
> 
> It's so dry because the air is 20% humidity, 40% when running a humidifier, and both the top and bottom allow airflow through.
> 
> ...


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## TrippleDip (Dec 25, 2020)

raggyb said:


> mine prefered to crawl out for a quicker suicide


lol

Did you try again? Are you using two totes or the frame you described a few pages back?


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## raggyb (Dec 25, 2020)

TrippleDip said:


> lol
> 
> Did you try again? Are you using two totes or the frame you described a few pages back?


Not yet. It's going to depend what parts I come across for repurposing and salvaging. reexamining life so maybe not until 2022 Lol.


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## CrunchBerries (Jan 2, 2021)

I was reading the worm forum here https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=60422&page=12 and Clackamas Coots mentioned adding EM-1 in your worm bin. Does anyone have experience with this they could share? Happy New year!


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## TrippleDip (Jan 2, 2021)

..... I have some more worm bin questions. Mostly about the amount you feed.

1) So I have been feeding a 750mL container of waste with about 1L of bedding each week (with thr goal of working up to twice that). This week I weighed the container and it was only a half lb. In the worms eat my garbage book it says a 2.5 sq. ft. bin should be fed about 2.5 lbs a week. That is a half inch of food waste or 3L of waste each week. Is that right?

1b) In the book again, she says 2lb of worm are required to process 1lb of food waste each day. This means there should be only 0.7lb of worms in the bin, but that seems small, I probably started with more than that.. Is that right? Am I severely underfeeding, are you feeding a half inch of food waste each week, that seems insane!



raggyb said:


> reexamining life so maybe not until 2022 Lol.


Hopefully that means you are too busy working on other projects because simple distractions can sometimes provide the motivation to work on larger and harder things.


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## loco41 (Jan 3, 2021)

CrunchBerries said:


> I was reading the worm forum here https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=60422&page=12 and Clackamas Coots mentioned adding EM-1 in your worm bin. Does anyone have experience with this they could share? Happy New year!


My worms seemed to love the bokashi bran I made a while back. I have like half a gallon of some activated em1 that I've been meaning to use up still, just need to find some cheap bran somewhere local and I'll make some more up. Only thing I worried about was the ph dropping a bit from the bokashi, so tried not not overdue it too much. I think @MustangStudFarm made/used bokashi a lot more in his set ups than I did, so maybe he can offer a bit more.


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## myke (Jan 3, 2021)

TrippleDip said:


> ..... I have some more worm bin questions. Mostly about the amount you feed.
> 
> 1) So I have been feeding a 750mL container of waste with about 1L of bedding each week (with thr goal of working up to twice that). This week I weighed the container and it was only a half lb. In the worms eat my garbage book it says a 2.5 sq. ft. bin should be fed about 2.5 lbs a week. That is a half inch of food waste or 3L of waste each week. Is that right?
> 
> ...


Ive been adding my food to one spot,then after a week I can check how much is left.I mix spread around whats left then feed again in a different spot.


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## myke (Jan 3, 2021)

A question,I notice the bottom 2" of my 15g tote can get compacted.Should I be turning the whole tote?


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## raggyb (Jan 3, 2021)

TrippleDip said:


> ..... I have some more worm bin questions. Mostly about the amount you feed.
> 
> 1) So I have been feeding a 750mL container of waste with about 1L of bedding each week (with thr goal of working up to twice that). This week I weighed the container and it was only a half lb. In the worms eat my garbage book it says a 2.5 sq. ft. bin should be fed about 2.5 lbs a week. That is a half inch of food waste or 3L of waste each week. Is that right?
> 
> ...


Haha yeah, I think i have a lot of projects going on including the examining life one. i think sometimes it helps to back off on projects that are not going well and wait for some enlightenment. Definitely like your question and would like to hear more opinions on it. I recall someone writing how neglecting their bin for a real long time like weeks and weeks worked out real well for them. So on the other end of the spectrum I wonder how much food can you shove in there without things going bad?


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## TrippleDip (Jan 3, 2021)

raggyb said:


> i think sometimes it helps to back off on projects that are not going well and wait for some enlightenment.


Good advice too.



raggyb said:


> So on the other end of the spectrum I wonder how much food can you shove in there without things going bad?


I think I found my answer anyways. From urbanwormcompany.com's vermicomposting 101.. 



> The grossly over-optimistic rule of thumb that worms can eat 50-100% of their weight in organic waste each day is leading new vermicomposters to certain failure.
> 
> Even if worms can eat 50% of their own weight, I‘ll bet you dollars to doughnuts the worms aren't going to completely finish off 10% in 24 hours. And the reason is pretty simple. Worms are eating more than what you feed them ... worms are also eating the “brown” material we consider to be bedding, which is decomposing, albeit at a slower rate than food waste.


They then go on to say that almost all problems are caused by overfeeding not underfeeding




myke said:


> I mix spread around whats left then


That's new to me. many places say to go through a sequence of spots but for some reason I imagined it going up like a circular staircase. That definitely makes more sense.


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## IRod187 (Jan 3, 2021)

These threads are awesome. Im starting a bin for the first time n its great to get insight n knowledge from y'all. Question on adding spent beer grains. Any experience?


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## CrunchBerries (Jan 3, 2021)

IRod187 said:


> These threads are awesome. Im starting a bin for the first time n its great to get insight n knowledge from y'all. Question on adding spent beer grains. Any experience?


There is some discussion of that topic on page 80.


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## IRod187 (Jan 3, 2021)

CrunchBerries said:


> There is some discussion of that topic on page 80.


Thanks. I was reading through that n it's actually what inspired my question. Sorry, I should of been a bit more specific. I read over this article n was curious if anyone can vouch for the microbial activity in their ewc after feeding a balanced diet of spent beer grain specifically. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31470229/#:~:text=Brewers' spent grain (BSG),biotechnological processes, such as vermicomposting.&text=Higher fungi and yeast abundance,accompanied by higher dehydrogenase activity.


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## MustangStudFarm (Jan 3, 2021)

loco41 said:


> My worms seemed to love the bokashi bran I made a while back. I have like half a gallon of some activated em1 that I've been meaning to use up still, just need to find some cheap bran somewhere local and I'll make some more up. Only thing I worried about was the ph dropping a bit from the bokashi, so tried not not overdue it too much. I think @MustangStudFarm made/used bokashi a lot more in his set ups than I did, so maybe he can offer a bit more.


I used greensand, azomite, basalt, OSF, and barley seed in my worm bin. The Grokashi works well to make thermal compost and keep the bin warm in the winter, plus the population explodes after using it. My problem is that I usually get mice that eat my worms because I have big outdoor bins. We don't have that bad of winters in Okla, so keep that in mind. I found red wheat bran at a feed store and I found rice bran at walmart that's labeled for deer feed in the hunting section. Where I live, I have more feed stores than grocery stores so I don't know how hard it would be to find red wheat bran? I had some oak leaves that I had stored for about a year, then I brought them to my worm bin to finish. I ended up with pure leaf mold in about 2 years(Clackamas Coots method). However, Clack admitted that buys his black leaf mould from a friend.


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## MustangStudFarm (Jan 3, 2021)

IRod187 said:


> Thanks. I was reading through that n it's actually what inspired my question. Sorry, I should of been a bit more specific. I read over this article n was curious if anyone can vouch for the microbial activity in their ewc after feeding a balanced diet of spent beer grain specifically. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31470229/#:~:text=Brewers' spent grain (BSG),biotechnological processes, such as vermicomposting.&text=Higher fungi and yeast abundance,accompanied by higher dehydrogenase activity.


Spent beer grain is missing the enzymes, it's the best part of the grain. I use a pale barley because it's supposed to have more enzymes. However, I wouldn't stop using a free input. If you have a good source of free barley, you should make an outdoor bin for sure! Like my post above, just add leaves and you have compost. You can add stuff to leaves to make it faster than a 2yr process, I mean nitrogen. Nitrogen and sugar would get things cooking, both will help with microbial activity. Just don't have sugar/molasses in your soil when you plant, it's phytotoxic. Give it enough time to break down. Fish hydrolysate and spent grain should give you good fungal growth in a compost/vermicompost bin. I would use fresh grain on a potted plant though, like a topdressing. If you buy it, just get the cheap 4 row from the beer store. I'll get the pale 6 row when it's on sale, or if I'm feeling lucky. You should use this with some form of chitin input like crab.


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## MustangStudFarm (Jan 3, 2021)

CrunchBerries said:


> I was reading the worm forum here https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=60422&page=12 and Clackamas Coots mentioned adding EM-1 in your worm bin. Does anyone have experience with this they could share? Happy New year!


I replied above, but if you want a detailed discussion on Clackamas Coot's soil recipe, here is an awesome pod. I refer to this often and the host Tad Hussey is pretty cool himself. Here is a 3pt series on here with Clack, listen to some of the others too. I found Dr. Steve Solomon to be helpful talking about soil remineralization. I was chasing Mn problems at the time and he explains that cannabis is Mn sensitive and it's hard to find sources of Mn, like rock dust and kelp don't have enough Mn or Zn. *








Cannabis Cultivation and Science Podcast


This is the podcast where we bring leading experts from the horticulture and gardening industry and find out the latest information and research for cannabis cultivation. Forget the marketing hype from bottled nutrient companies, everything on this show is based in science and research. If you...




www.kisorganics.com




*


----------



## MustangStudFarm (Jan 3, 2021)

IRod187 said:


> Thanks. I was reading through that n it's actually what inspired my question. Sorry, I should of been a bit more specific. I read over this article n was curious if anyone can vouch for the microbial activity in their ewc after feeding a balanced diet of spent beer grain specifically. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31470229/#:~:text=Brewers' spent grain (BSG),biotechnological processes, such as vermicomposting.&text=Higher fungi and yeast abundance,accompanied by higher dehydrogenase activity.


Good link, I'm reading it now. The reason why the enzymes can be helpful in barley seed, let's say that you follow Clackamas Coot's soil recipe and you use crab/crustacean meal(chitin), you will need the enzymes(chitinase) to break down the chitin. Otherwise, you won't really break it down and it will just sit in the soil. I did a little research on my own and took it a step further, I found that the streptomyces bacteria in Grokashi(from the beet juice) also produces chitinase. So, when I do a topdressing now, I'll use crab, barley seed, and grokashi together. The grokashi will make a layer of mycelium, then cover that with a compost topdressing and the mycelium will grow through your compost.
This is the first topdressing with crab, barley, and grokashi. This is in a Earthbox, which is covered with a shower cap. This will push microbes to the max. It's supposed to be like the floor of the Amazon rainforest. You can still see the grokashi grain.


I wait about 4 days for the mycelium to form, then I topdress it(pic above). This pic is another 5 days after the compost topdressing, so maybe 5 days since the top pic. I've played around with this method a little and I found ways to get a thicker mycelium mat the first time around.


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## IRod187 (Jan 4, 2021)

Oh thats cool as shit! They plow through all that mycelium huh?


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## CrunchBerries (Jan 5, 2021)

IRod187 said:


> Oh thats cool as shit! They plow through all that mycelium huh?


Those are probiotic SIPs. Here is a link for more info https://www.rollitup.org/t/greens-probiotic-method.985411/
I don’t believe the worms can survive in a probiotic SIP, but @MustangStudFarm would be able to better answer.


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## sfsdfuturegrower (Jan 10, 2021)

hyroot said:


> I got my mortar and pestle at costco. It's the stone kind that you see at El Torito when they make guacamole at your table in one.


I got mine at costco too.


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## MustangStudFarm (Jan 11, 2021)

CrunchBerries said:


> Those are probiotic SIPs. Here is a link for more info https://www.rollitup.org/t/greens-probiotic-method.985411/
> I don’t believe the worms can survive in a probiotic SIP, but @MustangStudFarm would be able to better answer.


I think that it gets too acidic for worms. I used a Ph meter the other day and it was around 5.2, so I had to start using more calcium and rock dust in my mix. I'm using ferments that are really acidic too, so that is probably the culprit. I'm about to get a soil test and pay an agronomist to look at my compost results.


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## CrunchBerries (Jan 11, 2021)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I think that it gets too acidic for worms. I used a Ph meter the other day and it was around 5.2, so I had to start using more calcium and rock dust in my mix. I'm using ferments that are really acidic too, so that is probably the culprit. I'm about to get a soil test and pay an agronomist to look at my compost results.


Thank you! That’s some good info!


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## JustBlazin (Jan 14, 2021)

i have a question regarding using malted barley In my work bag,do i need to mix the barley at a certain ratio with lime or some other ph buffer because the barley is really acidic?,unfortunately i think i killed most of my worms by putting in to much malted barley and just to much food in general.i also believe it was to wet, so i took everything and took out the chunks of uneaten stuff, then put it back in layering in more dry card board and dry canna leaves(none of the chunky uneaten food).
but it seems my worms at least what's left of them are all at the very bottom where the zipper and hole to empty your castings from and when you open the zipper there are always a few dead gooey worms with the live ones and it kinda stink( not sure if the smell is the castings or the dead worms).i can't really find any worms in the bedding? Since it was too wet the first time i haven't really sprayed the top to keep it moist... So the top seems a bit dry, but if i try and get the top moist I'm afraid the bottom will get soggy again.
not sure what to do. Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 1, 2021)

JustBlazin said:


> i have a question regarding using malted barley In my work bag,do i need to mix the barley at a certain ratio with lime or some other ph buffer because the barley is really acidic?,unfortunately i think i killed most of my worms by putting in to much malted barley and just to much food in general.i also believe it was to wet, so i took everything and took out the chunks of uneaten stuff, then put it back in layering in more dry card board and dry canna leaves(none of the chunky uneaten food).
> but it seems my worms at least what's left of them are all at the very bottom where the zipper and hole to empty your castings from and when you open the zipper there are always a few dead gooey worms with the live ones and it kinda stink( not sure if the smell is the castings or the dead worms).i can't really find any worms in the bedding? Since it was too wet the first time i haven't really sprayed the top to keep it moist... So the top seems a bit dry, but if i try and get the top moist I'm afraid the bottom will get soggy again.
> not sure what to do. Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated


I only watered my ‘bedding’ material once when I first got my canOworms tower bin. That was before receiving my worms. Material is supposed to be the consistency of a wrung out sponge, not soaked. If you are using kitchen scraps the material will get added moisture from those feedings. I use a layer of dried leaves so if it does get too moist they can hang out there and it helps to absorb excess moisture. I did not have any adverse effects from adding malted barley. I did add it buried in one clump and noticed it heating up so I removed it and spread it more evenly. Hope this helps.


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 1, 2021)

MustangStudFarm said:


> I replied above, but if you want a detailed discussion on Clackamas Coot's soil recipe, here is an awesome pod. I refer to this often and the host Tad Hussey is pretty cool himself. Here is a 3pt series on here with Clack, listen to some of the others too. I found Dr. Steve Solomon to be helpful talking about soil remineralization. I was chasing Mn problems at the time and he explains that cannabis is Mn sensitive and it's hard to find sources of Mn, like rock dust and kelp don't have enough Mn or Zn. *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These podcasts are great!


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## Rozgreenburn (Feb 1, 2021)

I am new to vermiposting and I have many questions which have been answered here. Thanks to all. I have 1 bin of red wigglers and 2 bins of European nightcrawlers. The reds stayed put in their bin after 2 days, but the Euros [5%] go down and out of the 1/4" holes in the floor. I won't be needing leachate and therefore decided to add bedding and some 1/2 composted food to my bottom bin. Since moisture is under my control, there won't be excess moisture in the bottom. Now the worms who dive into the bottom can flourish and not perish. I only did this in 1 bin so that there can be comparison. Any thoughts? I will note my results in a month or so. Roll on////


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 1, 2021)

Rozgreenburn said:


> I am new to vermiposting and I have many questions which have been answered here. Thanks to all. I have 1 bin of red wigglers and 2 bins of European nightcrawlers. The reds stayed put in their bin after 2 days, but the Euros [5%] go down and out of the 1/4" holes in the floor. I won't be needing leachate and therefore decided to add bedding and some 1/2 composted food to my bottom bin. Since moisture is under my control, there won't be excess moisture in the bottom. Now the worms who dive into the bottom can flourish and not perish. I only did this in 1 bin so that there can be comparison. Any thoughts? I will note my results in a month or so. Roll on////


My first thought was the bedding on the bottom would restrict airflow in the system which is critical to a healthy bin. I’ll let the heavyweights weigh in on this one though.


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## hillbill (Feb 1, 2021)

Lightweight here, been worming for 4 years and love having my own castings! I do feed minerals in my grit which I see some sifting into final castings.


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## raggyb (Feb 1, 2021)

Rozgreenburn said:


> I am new to vermiposting and I have many questions which have been answered here. Thanks to all. I have 1 bin of red wigglers and 2 bins of European nightcrawlers. The reds stayed put in their bin after 2 days, but the Euros [5%] go down and out of the 1/4" holes in the floor. I won't be needing leachate and therefore decided to add bedding and some 1/2 composted food to my bottom bin. Since moisture is under my control, there won't be excess moisture in the bottom. Now the worms who dive into the bottom can flourish and not perish. I only did this in 1 bin so that there can be comparison. Any thoughts? I will note my results in a month or so. Roll on////


my reds would go out the floor too. and...i killed them all through other unknown problems. so my thought is i'd appreciate if you did this test and report back! to answer CrunchBerries concern which i think is valid, but what would i know, is to make it a whole lot of paper like stuff at the bottom to help airation, maybe a raised bottom with holes, a screen top if you don't already, and holes in the final bottom that are only 1/16 diam or maybe less. I know 1/8 is big enough for them to crawl through!


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 11, 2021)

How often would y’all say you feed with dry amendments?


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 11, 2021)

CrunchBerries said:


> How often would y’all say you feed with dry amendments?


I know this is totally dependent on so many variables, but humor me. My own schedule has been about every 1 1/2 to 2 weeks, but my bin was only started in December with a pound of red wrigglers. My philosophy has been less is more. I am seeing good activity and reproduction.


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 11, 2021)

Worms bunching up in the medium on the side of my bin a sign of anything? Too dry?


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## raggyb (Feb 11, 2021)

CrunchBerries said:


> I know this is totally dependent on so many variables, but humor me. My own schedule has been about every 1 1/2 to 2 weeks, but my bin was only started in December with a pound of red wrigglers. My philosophy has been less is more. I am seeing good activity and reproduction.


by dry amendments do you mean paper, leaves, cardboard?


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## CrunchBerries (Feb 11, 2021)

raggyb said:


> by dry amendments do you mean paper, leaves, cardboard?


No sorry. Like what you would add to soil: kelp, alfalfa, barley, neem and karanja etc.


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## raggyb (Feb 11, 2021)

CrunchBerries said:


> No sorry. Like what you would add to soil: kelp, alfalfa, barley, neem and karanja etc.


oh gotcha. i hope somebody who knows would answer. but i would think you put in same amounts per volume as what a coots mix would call for if you can estimate that. so smaller portions of that if you want to spread it out over time while the amounts of mass accumulate.


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## loco41 (Feb 11, 2021)

CrunchBerries said:


> I know this is totally dependent on so many variables, but humor me. My own schedule has been about every 1 1/2 to 2 weeks, but my bin was only started in December with a pound of red wrigglers. My philosophy has been less is more. I am seeing good activity and reproduction.


Glad to hear the success man and I fully agree with your philosophy of less is more. I typically only sprinkle some dry amendments every so often, maybe once a month, in between some veggie/fruit scrap feeds. I also don't throw kelp into my bins anymore, not saying it's a bad thing or not beneficial, I just notice that the worms seem to favor things like neem/alfalfa/oats more so than the kelp (my guess is the sodium content in the kelp is a bit on the high side for what the worms like when initially put in there but that's just pure speculation on my part though). My one bin hasn't been "harvested" in over two years, so I try not to go too crazy in that bin with much of anything. I'm sure that bin has a crazy amount of nutrient value at this point.

Every time I get to reading through this thread, I am reminded just how lazy I truly am when it comes to my worms. A little extra effort on my part would probably expedite things and be a bit more "ideal" for my worms, but that's why I dig the organics route, I can be a lazy turd and things still have a chance to work out well. 



CrunchBerries said:


> Worms bunching up in the medium on the side of my bin a sign of anything? Too dry?


I used to notice my worms congregating on the sides of my bins from time to time, but since then I have just been feeding a bit more regularly and that seems to keep them down in the bedding more so. That's why I like to either just throw scraps right on top or barely dig into the bedding a little to lightly cover the scrap, it helps me gauge the amount of food in there. I probably still "under feed" my bins for the most part which probably slows things like reproduction rates down a bit, but every so often I'll give a healthy layer of scraps over the whole top and then cover that all with some compost.

Are you following coot's method and just going with the dry amendments/compost as the "food" source for your bin or do you throw in other things as well? When I harvest my oldest bin, maybe sometime this decade, I think I will read up on coots method a bit more and try doing that one following his way just for comparison sake. 

Sorry for rambling on and really not being able to give you some solid advice, just my take on things and how I approach my bins. Wish you continued success though and hope to hear about your trials some more.


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## chernobe (Feb 11, 2021)

I threw in a couple handfuls of everything. A couple weeks later I put an apple in there. When it melted they didn't care for the most part until the last day or two. I figure when they take more of an interest in the food scraps than the dry amendments and don't seem so spread out everywhere it's time to throw in more dry amendments. My first run had no dry amendments only food scraps so I was able to see what they liked and didn't like, how often and how much they would need to eat, etc. I'm pretty new at this too about 6 months or so and have 2 bins going. Lots to learn still. They went crazy for the malted barley like Coot said they would. 2000 more worms should be here in a day or two. Started out with 250 and now guessing somewhere between 500-1000 between both bins? Not too sure but there's lots of them and they seem happy. Awesome thread lots of good info, thanks for sharing.


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## Rozgreenburn (Feb 12, 2021)

raggyb said:


> my reds would go out the floor too. and...i killed them all through other unknown problems. so my thought is i'd appreciate if you did this test and report back! to answer CrunchBerries concern which i think is valid, but what would i know, is to make it a whole lot of paper like stuff at the bottom to help airation, maybe a raised bottom with holes, a screen top if you don't already, and holes in the final bottom that are only 1/16 diam or maybe less. I know 1/8 is big enough for them to crawl through!


Update on worm bin. So far [2 weeks] and no more worm loss. Since I put food and bedding in the bottom tray, instead of overwatering and collecting leachate, there has been no mass exodus from above and the worms that stay down there act very happy. Happy growing y'all.


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## snowdog203 (Feb 15, 2021)

I've got a store bought bin that is doing well, it has red wigglers and pretty much add only spent coffee grounds and ground eggshells. If I do add veg which is rare, now a days I tend to nuke any veg before it goes in the bin, so it doesn't hatch any bugs. I hear coffee grounds are high in nutrients and have never added manufactured/commercial nutrients or minerals. I use a small plastic baby pool, not the inflatable type, to sort the worms out. I like to get as many as I can back into the bin, it is a chore. Been doing it at least a decade. Originally read about vermicomposting in The Reader in the 80's, the article was about a janitor who made a chest of drawers/dresser into a set of worm bins. Glad I finally got around to it. I made a small bucket that collects the grounds in the kitchen and every so often I have to unload the bucket into the top bin of my composter. I get overloaded by spring and have harvested the bottom bin into a 5 gallon bucket (to store for spring) to make room for more coffee grounds in the top bin. I think I remember trying to use paper but it was confusing and pretty much dropped it when I realized the worms thrive just fine without any paper. I think coffee grounds are about the right particle size and wetness for the worms. I've got a dedicated whirly grinder for the egg shells. The harvested compost grew my Auto's very well last year with just vermicompost/(perlite) and soil, outdoors in the ground. Didn't buy or use any store bought fertilizers or minerals.


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## raggyb (Feb 16, 2021)

snowdog203 said:


> I've got a store bought bin that is doing well, it has red wigglers and pretty much add only spent coffee grounds and ground eggshells. If I do add veg which is rare, now a days I tend to nuke any veg before it goes in the bin, so it doesn't hatch any bugs. I hear coffee grounds are high in nutrients and have never added manufactured/commercial nutrients or minerals. I use a small plastic baby pool, not the inflatable type, to sort the worms out. I like to get as many as I can back into the bin, it is a chore. Been doing it at least a decade. Originally read about vermicomposting in The Reader in the 80's, the article was about a janitor who made a chest of drawers/dresser into a set of worm bins. Glad I finally got around to it. I made a small bucket that collects the grounds in the kitchen and every so often I have to unload the bucket into the top bin of my composter. I get overloaded by spring and have harvested the bottom bin into a 5 gallon bucket (to store for spring) to make room for more coffee grounds in the top bin. I think I remember trying to use paper but it was confusing and pretty much dropped it when I realized the worms thrive just fine without any paper. I think coffee grounds are about the right particle size and wetness for the worms. I've got a dedicated whirly grinder for the egg shells. The harvested compost grew my Auto's very well last year with just vermicompost/(perlite) and soil, outdoors in the ground. Didn't buy or use any store bought fertilizers or minerals.


that's surprising that worms do fine on mostly coffee. probably a nice pH down for the plants.


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## hillbill (Feb 16, 2021)

raggyb said:


> that's surprising that worms do fine on mostly coffee. probably a nice pH down for the plants.


Brewed grounds are close to neutral ph.


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## Northwood (Feb 16, 2021)

hillbill said:


> Brewed grounds are close to neutral ph.


Yup: https://www.gardenmyths.com/coffee-grounds-acidifies-soil/


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## raggyb (Feb 16, 2021)

hillbill said:


> Brewed grounds are close to neutral ph.


good to know. like your flowers in your id pic.


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## hillbill (Feb 16, 2021)

raggyb said:


> good to know. like your flowers in your id pic.


All wildflowers


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## Imbald (Feb 17, 2021)

I've had my European crawlers for about 3 months now. Haven't harvested any castings yet, they're there, just being lazy and don't need them presently.
.
Bedding is mainly peat with perlite, lime, Oyster shell flower, sand, and some shredded newspaper.
I'm mainly striving for "super castings". I guess you could say similar to Coots style.
I use no fruits, vegetables, or table scraps. Not worth the extra risk for smells, to much moisture, and excessive bugs. That's just me. I had that experience a few years back. But hey, if it works for you, it is pretty much free food.

I do give them some, but not a lot, of coffee grounds. There main diet is ground up malted barley, karanja cake meal, neem meal, alfalfa meal, crab meal, kelp meal. Never a lot at one time. Sprinkle it out over the top every couple days and cover with damp newspaper. If you add too much at one time it will heat up. 
Soon to be added to their menu will be alfalfa pellets and ground up bird seed.


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## hillbill (Feb 17, 2021)

Worms need grit so it’s limestone , greensand and Azomite they get.


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## loco41 (Feb 22, 2021)

I know I've smoked a bit too much when i find myself zoning out watching some springtails have themselves a little brawl in one of the bins, seemed to be pretty intense. 

On a real note, anybody feed beets to the worm bins? I imagine they would be just fine, but I froze the scraps from peeling them and then thawed/blended them to try and help make them easier to breakdown. @MustangStudFarm I know you were talking about beet juice and grokashi not too long ago, but have any thoughts on if running them through the worm bins would bring similar effects to the microbes/soil?


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## raggyb (Feb 22, 2021)

loco41 said:


> I know I've smoked a bit too much when i find myself zoning out watching some springtails have themselves a little brawl in one of the bins, seemed to be pretty intense.
> 
> On a real note, anybody feed beets to the worm bins? I imagine they would be just fine, but I froze the scraps from peeling them and then thawed/blended them to try and help make them easier to breakdown. @MustangStudFarm I know you were talking about beet juice and grokashi not too long ago, but have any thoughts on if running them through the worm bins would bring similar effects to the microbes/soil?


I fed beets because they have manganese and Mn is good for terpene production. then again i have so far killed all the worms and don't know how but I doubt it was the beets that did it.


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## chernobe (Feb 23, 2021)

The new worms are all settled in now. Gave them crab meal, OSF, neem meal, gypsum, basalt, Glacial rock dust, couple handfuls of malted barley all mixed into some coco. Also rehydrated a jar of kelp meal and way over fed them. I believe that is all that is left because they are making quick work out of the mounds of kelp meal and there is tons of black little grounds everywhere. Thinking about harvesting and changing bedding in 2-3 weeks depending on progress. I added 2000 worms to this bin in addition to the couple or few hundred already living there. They are very active now and doing a great job!


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## MustangStudFarm (Feb 23, 2021)

loco41 said:


> I know I've smoked a bit too much when i find myself zoning out watching some springtails have themselves a little brawl in one of the bins, seemed to be pretty intense.
> 
> On a real note, anybody feed beets to the worm bins? I imagine they would be just fine, but I froze the scraps from peeling them and then thawed/blended them to try and help make them easier to breakdown. @MustangStudFarm I know you were talking about beet juice and grokashi not too long ago, but have any thoughts on if running them through the worm bins would bring similar effects to the microbes/soil?


I used the beet scraps in the worm bin, the leftovers from juicing them.


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## Rozgreenburn (Mar 6, 2021)

Rozgreenburn said:


> Update on worm bin. So far [2 weeks] and no more worm loss. Since I put food and bedding in the bottom tray, instead of overwatering and collecting leachate, there has been no mass exodus from above and the worms that stay down there act very happy. Happy growing y'all.


 Final? update. I just harved my first 2 gallons of EWC. Why the hell am I so excited about worm poop? Anyway, I've got eggs, and lots of baby worms in the bottom. That was all that remained in my base tray. I have given some ventilation holes up high and, no problems. So cool, gonna love having fresh castings and Hypoaspis miles....Gotta love forward progress ...


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## myke (Mar 6, 2021)

Just harvesting some out of mine. What are these?3 egg looking things


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 6, 2021)

myke said:


> Just harvesting some out of mine. What are these?3 egg looking things


Worm eggs/cocoons. Between 3-5 worm babies in each.


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## myke (Mar 6, 2021)

CrunchBerries said:


> Worm eggs


Really ,I did not know that.Well shit, now how do I separate them from my casting?


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 6, 2021)

myke said:


> Really ,I did not know that.Well shit, now how do I separate them from my casting?


Yes so they will hatch and reproduce themselves. Can’t remember when they will be sexually mature but it isnt long. You can tell the difference between the hatched and unhatched eggs by the color. Unhatched looks like what you posted. Hatched look clearer.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 6, 2021)

myke said:


> Really ,I did not know that.Well shit, now how do I separate them from my casting?


I guess I didn’t really answer your question. There are postings in here on various sifters, but I think you still have to manually separate them somewhat.


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## myke (Mar 6, 2021)

CrunchBerries said:


> Yes so they will hatch and reproduce themselves. Can’t remember when they will be sexually mature but it isnt long. You can tell the difference between the hatched and unhatched eggs by the color. Unhatched looks like what you posted. Hatched look clearer.


Just did some reading,the redish ones are close to hatching.So i guess 5-8 worms will be in ea cocoon


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## myke (Mar 6, 2021)

CrunchBerries said:


> I guess I didn’t really answer your question. There are postings in here on various sifters, but I think you still have to manually separate them somewhat.


Perfect job for my wife lol.Hun you have to come save the babies! ll


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 12, 2021)

CrunchBerries said:


> Worms bunching up in the medium on the side of my bin a sign of anything? Too dry?


Sooo.... to answer my own question my bin was too dry. I gave it a good watering and worms migrated to the top and spread out more evenly. I was starting to get worried, but the population has exploded.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 12, 2021)

I added leftover EWC, alfalfa and kelp from a compost tea and the worms went fucking bananas! They had been chowing on some malted barley, but when I added the leftovers they quickly moved and made short work of the mix.


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## hillbill (Mar 12, 2021)

Those particular amendments can really heat things up if buried too deep.


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## MustangStudFarm (Mar 14, 2021)

hillbill said:


> Those particular amendments can really heat things up if buried too deep.


I do this on purpose on my outdoor bins. Corn meal and brown sugar is like a heater for the poor guys lol...


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 14, 2021)

hillbill said:


> Those particular amendments can really heat things up if buried too deep.


I spread the used tea pretty thinly on the top. I haven’t been burying food just sprinkling here and there on rotation.


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## CrunchBerries (Mar 23, 2021)

So it looks like I overfeed my bin a little and got pot worms. Did some research and bin is a bit acidic. Added a 1/2 cup of pulverized egg shell to help neutralize Ph. Worms seem happy and are reproducing otherwise. Found this helpful https://unclejimswormfarm.com/worm-bin-acidity-ph-composting-worms/


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## Rozgreenburn (Mar 29, 2021)

Worms are doin' great and lots of EWC!! Don't have to buy it again, Ever!!

My question now, have any of our experienced vermiposters used beneficial nematodes HB+ SF + SC in their grows without harming the earthworms? If it is not a problem, I think I may add them as preventative maintenance.
There is always more to learn, how cool


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## CrunchBerries (May 27, 2021)

How do y’all store your finished EWC?


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## myke (May 27, 2021)

CrunchBerries said:


> How do y’all store your finished EWC?


On top of my plants. Lol. 
sounds like you have too much send me some.


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## CrunchBerries (May 27, 2021)

myke said:


> On top of my plants. Lol.
> sounds like you have too much send me some.


Ha! We are moving and projects have been put on hold, so I have a surplus at the moment.


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## Rozgreenburn (May 27, 2021)

CrunchBerries said:


> How do y’all store your finished EWC?


 Good question,
I double screen my castings and then put it into 5 gallon buckets with lids. I put 4 gallons into the bucket and set the lid on it [do not snap it closed yet]. After 2 weeks, screen once more to save any worms I've missed. At this point it should be worm free. Now just store in a cool and dark place in containers with the lids just covering them. I personally do not want my EWC to completely dry out. 
Of course, after 6 months, I'll never have to buy it again. Another 6 months or so and I may have to start selling worms! Good growing...


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## myke (May 27, 2021)

CrunchBerries said:


> Ha! We are moving and projects have been put on hold, so I have a surplus at the moment.


Just leave it in the worm bin.


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## CrunchBerries (May 27, 2021)

myke said:


> Just leave it in the worm bin.


It’s sitting in the bottom tier of my canOworms


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## getogrow (May 28, 2021)

myke said:


> Just leave it in the worm bin.


Not a good idea in the long run. It will eventually kill your worms. 
Their bedding needs refreshed after so long. Sure they are tough lil fuckers so they can tolerate a LOT.... but sitting in their own shit for too long will kill them and/or turn your 3lbs of worms into a qp.

I finally got my bin/s going again. Does everyone use peat moss for bedding these days ? Every bag of castings at the hydro store is peat moss. Thats weak at best. 
I use paper and table scraps and come out with SOIL , not no soft ass peat. I dont get it...


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## Rozgreenburn (May 28, 2021)

Using coco, perlite and vermiculite, fresh compost and garden lime.. Add shredded paper and food scraps along the way. I usually put some worm food across the top, and cover with wet cardboard. 
After 6 months, I've finally stretched bin maintenance to 2 week intervals. So nice to have EWC always available...


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## CrunchBerries (May 29, 2021)

I have started on my journey to do a coots style worm bin. Bedding includes peat, finished compost, aged leaf mold, ewc, rice hulls and some minerals. I follow the rule of what goes in must come out in a more plant friendly way. I feed barley, Comfrey, kelp, alfalfa, neem and karanja, root balls, canna and maple leaves, insect frass, egg shells or oyster flour for ph, etc in small amounts and in rotation.


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## MarsSP (May 29, 2021)

I just start my cycle a month ago. Feeding basically with banana, melon and watermelon peels, eggshells. Dried leaves found in nature, a little of wood leftovers and raw paper scraps.
First few drops of biofert already dropped.
It's my first trial and there's a long way to go and it's so fantastic as growing weed!


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## Fatleg77 (Jun 14, 2021)

So I asked a question in Organics about adding worms to my 5 gallon fabric pots as I grow I was directed here through a link. Original question was can I just add worms to my 5 gallon fabric pots as I grow the plants in my garden if so what is the quantity I would use thank you for any help


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## myke (Jun 14, 2021)

Fatleg77 said:


> So I asked a question in Organics about adding worms to my 5 gallon fabric pots as I grow I was directed here through a link. Original question was can I just add worms to my 5 gallon fabric pots as I grow the plants in my garden if so what is the quantity I would use thank you for any help


If you had a 30+ gallon pot sure add some worms.But 5 gallon is too small.Keep the red wigglers in your bin where theyll do the most good.5 gallon fabric pot will get too hot outside cooking the worms.


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## Fatleg77 (Jun 14, 2021)

myke said:


> If you had a 30+ gallon pot sure add some worms.But 5 gallon is too small.Keep the red wigglers in your bin where theyll do the most good.5 gallon fabric pot will get too hot outside cooking the worms.


Thank you very much... out of curiosity what is the desired temperature for worms to thrive


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## myke (Jun 14, 2021)

Fatleg77 said:


> Thank you very much... out of curiosity what is the desired temperature for worms to thrive


Shade,room temp id think.


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## Medskunk (Jun 14, 2021)

Fatleg77 said:


> Thank you very much... out of curiosity what is the desired temperature for worms to thrive


They re supposed to be most active at 59-84f. I ve seen this in my worm bin also.


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## GreenestBasterd (Jun 15, 2021)

myke said:


> Just leave it in the worm bin.


100% leave it where it should be until it’s needed.


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## GreenestBasterd (Jun 15, 2021)

Tangles


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## Rozgreenburn (Aug 8, 2021)

Finished harvesting EWC from my 5 bins, zoiks, 30 gallons of fresh EWC! It's a good thing, to be a soil mechanic. So at this point, I'll be amending our vegetable garden too! I need to set up 2 more bins but don't have space. Too hot outside now, but in late September I'll start some extra bins in my wife's greenhouse. I'm guessing there will be some worms to sell come spring, lots of worms!!!


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## Friendly_Grower (Apr 23, 2022)

Thanks for this thread.

May I suggest that the Title be changed to include the search terms "Vermicomposting, Vermicompost and Worm and Worm Castings?
At least Vermicompost.

I started another thread because this doesn't show up in keyword search.

Okay so I am now officially into Vermicomposting!
I wanted you connect with others and I have 85 pages to read but I am making my hello post!

*From old thread*

For my first ever VermiComposting adventure I've gone and sourced everything I read about.
Parts shredded cardboard, part soil with fresh roots from some clone in a pot, chopped up fresh clones ( not needed ) and kitchen scraps saved in a lovely "compost can" that looks like a miniature garbage can. very nice. You might want one for your kitchen. Impress your friends. Keeps the smell in with activated carbon scrubber in the lid. Also I am experimenting with corn from bird feed that I cannot use now due to bird-flu. In composting it, it disappears fast.

This Vermicomposting looks to be perhaps one of the lowest maintenance projects for making a soil amendment that I have experienced so far. 
Oh I make compost and I recycle my organic soil used in previous season by adding the old soil to new composting. Some things like Azomite and Greensand take time to be available to plants so it is a good idea to recycle if, like me, you added these things the season before. In my mind bio-activity is king.
I suspect I should check on these, my new gardening buddies every week or so. 
They have Plenty of food-stuff for them. 
Things are moist and once I get the fabric screen to finish their proper Vermi-Bin I'll transfer them from this temporary bin with no drainage to a bigger bin with drainage. 
I have a timetable of being ready to Grow the Winter grow come October. "To every Season Turn, Turn, Turn.."


And now some pictures. A favorite part of posting for me.








 


So that is it for my initial efforts.


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## Friendly_Grower (Apr 23, 2022)

Rising Moon said:


> I now feed my worms all sorts of selected goodies and treats:
> 
> Wakame kelp
> 
> ...


That is like little razors!!! It is meant to cut insects to have them "leak out and die."

Why use that for calcium?


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## 0potato0 (Apr 23, 2022)

DE does not harm earthworms. Earthworm farmers use it to treat their worm beds for parasites, fungus gnat larva etc.


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## Kushash (Apr 23, 2022)

Friendly_Grower said:


> That is like little razors!!! It is meant to cut insects to have them "leak out and die."
> 
> Why use that for calcium?


I also use DE to control fruit flies and have found it to not be harmful to my worms.


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## hillbill (Apr 23, 2022)

Kushash said:


> I also use DE to control fruit flies and have found it to not be harmful to my worms.


Got rid of centipedes in my bin with DE. Worms not bothered.


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## 0potato0 (Apr 23, 2022)

Did the centipedes eat the worms? Otherwise they are super beneficial they attack anything that moves


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## hillbill (Apr 23, 2022)

Did not wait to find out. Second time I brought em in myself. Centipedes have no home in my home.


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## Friendly_Grower (Apr 23, 2022)

Well Really!

I'm impressed on DE then.
So it's used in the bins for pest control! It would also provide some calcium
Nice to learn something new!

Around here, out in the country, I see nats. Black Soldier flies and house flies so far.
Nats are going to be around because I also keep Guinea Pigs and they get veggies and they have poo and pee collecting. That is what their job is: To poo and pee up the hay bedding for "further processing."

I can tell I am not alone in the Man of the Soil club around here! NICE!

Do we know the patron Saint of the Soil is? Oh Crap I thought it was* St. Stanislaus* but I got that wrong.
I guess it is a toss up between *St. Francis of Assisi* (patron saint of animals and environment), *St.* *Isidore the Farmer* ( (1070-1130) is considered the patron saint of farmers and rural communities.) and *St.* *Fiacre*, the chief Catholic saint of gardeners.

Well, I got to page ten. Only 75 more pages to read.


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## hillbill (Apr 23, 2022)

Silicon


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## 0potato0 (Apr 23, 2022)

hillbill said:


> Centipedes have no home in my home.


WHY?


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## hillbill (Apr 23, 2022)

They fucking “bite”


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## Friendly_Grower (Apr 23, 2022)

Throw another "Centi on the Barbi?"
I'm sure Shrek would like it.


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## Friendly_Grower (Apr 23, 2022)

So hey, should I save my egg shells to the side, dry and grind them for "Grit" for the worms?
I am reading that egg shells are for grit. is that still a valid point of "Worm-Farming?"


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## 0potato0 (Apr 23, 2022)

I powder them in a spice grinder


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## Friendly_Grower (Apr 23, 2022)

0potato0 said:


> DE does not harm earthworms. Earthworm farmers use it to treat their worm beds for parasites, fungus gnat larva etc.


I wonder if it works against Black Soldier Fly larvae. 
If I understand things I do not want BSF in the worm bin.


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## Friendly_Grower (Apr 23, 2022)

0potato0 said:


> I powder them in a spice grinder


I forgot about that kind of grinder. is that the same as coffee bean grinder?


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## 0potato0 (Apr 23, 2022)

Friendly_Grower said:


> I wonder if it works against Black Soldier Fly larvae.
> If I understand things I do not want BSF in the worm bin.


It has to on the top to work I don't think it works once it's mixes in or wet


Friendly_Grower said:


> I forgot about that kind of grinder. is that the same as coffee bean grinder?


Yeah exactly


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## hillbill (Apr 23, 2022)

BSF and red wiggles live in my same outdoor compost barrel.


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## Callisto405 (Apr 23, 2022)

I gotz some some red wigglers I got from Walmart in my compost bin


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## Friendly_Grower (Apr 23, 2022)

hillbill said:


> BSF and red wiggles live in my same outdoor compost barrel.


Really? 
Doesn't that .... OHHHHHHH Wait Earth Worms don't eat protein and Black Soldier Flies only eat Protein.
But Worms are protein. How does that work out?
I ask because I am considering an outside worm pile. I thought I would have to screen it in to protect from BSF.
Do you think there is a symbiotic relationship between the two waste products? BSF makes leachate by the gallon. They eat road kill. It stinks like death when they do.


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## hillbill (Apr 23, 2022)

I just add scrapes and leaves outside and BSF have been constant and the wrigglers could have come from leaves or small bog garden. The worms live lower in more “done” compost, population fluctuates.
Black Soldiers are awesome in warmer months.


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## Friendly_Grower (Apr 23, 2022)

hillbill said:


> I just add scrapes and leaves outside and BSF have been constant and the wrigglers could have come from leaves or small bog garden. The worms live lower in more “done” compost, population fluctuates.
> Black Soldiers are awesome in warmer months.


They are hatching out of the compost here. 
Did you know they have no mouth to eat with?
Only the Larvae can eat.


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## raggyb (Apr 24, 2022)

Friendly_Grower said:


> So hey, should I save my egg shells to the side, dry and grind them for "Grit" for the worms?
> I am reading that egg shells are for grit. is that still a valid point of "Worm-Farming?"


I read don't used boiled eggshells but I don't know why. Anybody know? Also read fry the shells in a dry pan I think to release the calcium faster.


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## Friendly_Grower (Apr 24, 2022)

raggyb said:


> I read don't used boiled eggshells but I don't know why. Anybody know? Also read fry the shells in a dry pan I think to release the calcium faster.


The context I was making is to provide "grit" for the worms as they have no teeth. The grit will help them digest what they eat I believe.
I also read about Vermicomposters adding rock dusts to their feed. I think for the same purpose and for the benefit of adding rock dust to the vermicompost.

I think that is the reason. Add Grit for the worms to use.

As to egg shells. I also was wondering because I listened to a guy that talked about using vinegar to make calcium available fast and he mentioned egg shells. I assume he meant grind the dry shells into a fine powder first. Most likely pop them in the toaster oven for a bit to dry them out.
I was wondering about that with using Oyster Shell Flour and vinegar . Make that Oyster Shell pH neutral. 

I Have been bubbling Guinea Pig Manure Tea and I added oyster shell flour to that. I checked pH and it was neutral after.


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## raggyb (Apr 25, 2022)

Friendly_Grower said:


> The context I was making is to provide "grit" for the worms as they have no teeth. The grit will help them digest what they eat I believe.
> I also read about Vermicomposters adding rock dusts to their feed. I think for the same purpose and for the benefit of adding rock dust to the vermicompost.
> 
> I think that is the reason. Add Grit for the worms to use.
> ...


I think the grinded eggshell should give them the grit they need, but I haven't mentioned for a while that I have only killed my worms. unlucky with worms. 

And since you cant believe everything on the internet, I don't know, I google boiling eggshells and got two opposite answers so far. One says the Ca ends up in the boiled water. I think it would be good to have source of Ca in your vermicompost if the worms don't absorb it all to grow their bones strong! But they dont have bones!


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## Kushash (Apr 25, 2022)

You guys might like this thread.
Eggshell WCA (Water-Soluble Calcium) | Rollitup


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## Friendly_Grower (Apr 26, 2022)

I found something on "Grit" for worms.



> Worms have a gizzard like chickens so fine grit should be added to help the worms digest food. This gritty material includes *cornmeal, coffee grounds and/or finely crushed egg shells* (dry the shells and then crush). Avoid large amounts of fat, meat scraps or bone.


Cool! Coffee Grounds and Cornmeal make it easier than collecting and processing eggshells.


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## hillbill (Apr 26, 2022)

Greensand, Azomite, Fine crushed Limestone and some fine sand used on this hill, coffee grounds too.


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## Friendly_Grower (Apr 26, 2022)

hillbill said:


> Greensand, Azomite, Fine crushed Limestone and some fine sand used on this hill, coffee grounds too.


I have both Azomite and Greensand. Sand is something I saw on YouTube but thought better of adding to the worm-bin since it doesn't add any nutrients.
I worry that it would become toxic to the worm bin.
How do you apply Azomite and Greensand in your worm bin? A Little once in a while or no worry sprinkle a little when you feed?


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## Kushash (Apr 26, 2022)

I freeze then thaw and blend fruits and vegetables with a TBL of azomite powder, a couple of handfuls of coco, a dash of dolomite, crushed dry cannabis leaves when available and sometimes a scoop of soil and a small layer of shredded cardboard.
I only needed to buy worms one time 3 years ago and the hardest part was dialing in the moisture level.
I have a worm farm 360 in my garage. Great for creating enough castings for top dressing but not enough for making large batches of soil. Temps hit the mid to low 40's in the winter and will top at 96 in the summer. For 3 years they have been able to handle the summer temp, I just slow down the feeding and monitor moisture.

I took this pic 2 years ago, not sure if centipedes were in the bin or if they entered the soil that I mix on a tarp in the garage. The 1st time I saw one in the soil it freaked me out. Eventually I learned to like them. There were noticeably less springtails in the pots that had the centipedes.


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## Kushash (Apr 26, 2022)

I also add used coffee grounds and I'm definitely going to buy a bag of greensand.


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## Friendly_Grower (Apr 26, 2022)

I understand that Greensand and Azomite take time to be available so I am all for pre-processing through vermicomposting.
I have read concerns from growers on possible toxic effects such as aluminum. Then Again~! I just looked up what my fingers were typing about and I don't see bad things!

Azomite is good for "feed" in animals and Greensand adds potassium So I don't see a negative in running it through Vermiculture. Vermiculture might benefit from a _ "spice grinder_" to make Greensand more "fine" for vermicomposting.
I have been adding it to composting in the tumblers I have, but, this looks like a valid path for additional vectors. Fancy words for I can add more in different things for a good cause.

Greensand as a Source of Potassium for Green Plants
The effects of vermicompost and Azomite on growth parameters, biochemical traits and absorption of nutrients in summer savory (Satureja hortensis L.)

My concern is the "global" accumulation over time in recomposted-soil ( recycled with other virgin compostables) which is what I do. My theory is that I should dilute the old and super charge with the new. Also there is a thing called Humus. In a small way recycling with re-composting manually adds to the natural evolution of organic soil in my opinion. I welcome counter arguments.



> *Humus soil*
> 
> Humus is *the substance that is left over after plants and animals have undergone a long process of thorough decomposition done by earthworms, bacteria, fungi, and other microorganisms*.


I welcome any counter arguments! However, it looks like win-win. I no longer have reservations on "spicing" the worm-food with a mix.


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## Friendly_Grower (Apr 26, 2022)

I just looked up oyster shell as well. 



> *People also ask*
> Is oyster shell good for worms?
> 
> Because worms have no teeth, they need to take in grit with their food. *Rock dust or crushed oyster shells offer grit for their diet and can also help correct problems if you've added too much food to the bin*.


So there is a fourth "grit" I can use.

I may try a mix of Azomite, Greensand powder, Cornmeal and powdered oyster shell.
I'm thinking of reusing one of those "Parmesan Cheese" containers to make a mix and keep it in the fridge for sprinkling on worm food. I will put a Dynamo Label on it "For Worms Only."

I do get a bit high from time to time.

*EDIT:*
Scratch the need for a grinder for the Greensand. I usurped one of my kitchen stainless steel "sifters" and I sifted the bag. There are plenty of Greensand fines. 

So if you would, what do you think of four heaping tablespoons of Oyster shell, Greensand, Azomite and 3 cups of corn meal as the "Grit?"

I put that in a Coffee (Tin) plastic container and shook it up for the mix.
I figure that when I "feed" every two weeks or so I can lace the food scraps with a little smorgasbord of grits.
There will be coffee grounds from K-Cups also in the food-scraps so there is another "grit." 

In this house everyone is fat and I need those Vermis' to be great little poopers and get fat and have all the babies they can!

How funny that these things make me Happy!


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## hillbill (Apr 27, 2022)

I reuse my mixes at up to 60% used in my medium. Since I feed the worms grit that is high in minerals, I add much less raw micro amendments. When screen my castings, much of the grit goes through. ROLS used here over 10 years.


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## Kushash (Apr 27, 2022)

hillbill said:


> I reuse my mixes at up to 60% used in my medium. Since I feed the worms grit that is high in minerals, I add much less raw micro amendments. When screen my castings, much of the grit goes through. ROLS used here over 10 years.


Did your soil become heavy over the years?
I re amended a soil for 6 years and it became very heavy.
I would add peat moss each time I amended it and I think that created a build up of Sulphur and I think that the sulphur created a need for high levels of dolomite lime to keep the PH up. The soil was working great till the final year and I ended up spreading it on the lawn.

Here is the soil test after amending it for 6 years.


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## hillbill (Apr 27, 2022)

I maintain a lot of drainage in the mix but actually add mor peat and much more compost/ewc. The Perlite and NAPA 8822 don’t get “used up” during the grow. Any component that continues to compost will become more and more dense in itself.


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## Friendly_Grower (Apr 27, 2022)

Wouldn't that be from the soil generating Humus?
The heavy part that is.
Since Humus is soil that is basically "totally finished" meaning the organic matter has broken down to create Humus, it might be very heavy.

Perhaps exporting some of the used soil when it gets heavy to keep a balance between organic materials that biological processes can work on and the Humus that is good in the pot for the plant is a must!

In a natural soil structure Humus would be many inches below the current organic materials level.
It's logical to then dilute recycled soils into new compost batches. By that I suggest that old soils be part of new composting batches.
That is what I'm doing. The Mantis Tumbler holds up to 88 gallons of material and I only add 15 gallons of soil from last winter's grow per batch. I have another 100 gallons of soil to go. That will be 7 batches of composting to go.
It's fine with me that I will be making excess organic soil. By next spring I hope to have the outdoor garden going. Top dressing and hole filling starter plants will be a good use of excess. Especially heavy Humus.

I wonder if worms like Humus?
Do either of you know?


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## Friendly_Grower (Apr 27, 2022)

WARNING!

Be sure to buy Cornmeal that isn't self-rising. Baking Soda is bad for worms because of the salt.
Also just because it is cornmeal it isn't something to apply liberally in the worm bin. Not really worm food.
For Grit some Cornmeal, Some green-sand, some Azomite, some Oyster shell flour and some coffee grounds offer some grit.
Easy does it seems to be the best advice. 

I will be using what I have mixed in the compost tumbler since I didn't realize I bought cornmeal with baking soda in it. 
I realized that when I made Salmon Patties. They looked really professional all raised up like that. They tasted great and it was the best looking salmon patties I have seen but I'm a human and that much salt I can handle. The Vermis' can't especially over time and build-ups.
I'll be spreading that mix over a hundred gallons of materials so it will be okay. My Bad but we learn and move on. 

My original recipe is four heaping tablespoons of Azomite, four heaping tablespoons of GreenSand fines and four heaping tablespoons of Oystershell flour all mixed with three cups of cornmeal. I will change that to just Tablespoons of everything and I think I will find another filler material. Maybe some alfalfa meal or even some Organic 4-4-4 fertilizer. I'm not sure yet I just know that a little grit is good and too much is a problem.
Oyster Shell Flour is good if we feed too much food to the Vermis'. So out of all the grit that is one with more wiggle room in usage in my opinion.

From what I read it's a fine line between a healthy worm bin and dead worms.
If there are coffee grounds in the worm-food that may be enough grit. To add Azomite, Greensand and Oyster shell just for the sake of adding soil amendments is a bad practice in the worm bin in my opinion. Do that later when the Worm-Castings are harvested.


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## hillbill (Apr 27, 2022)

Grit is sprinkled on here. You don’t need a great amount. It takes more than coffee grounds. Having plenty of browns in the bin is a must. Got a fancy shredder for unbleached cardboard.


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## raggyb (Apr 27, 2022)

Kushash said:


> You guys might like this thread.
> Eggshell WCA (Water-Soluble Calcium) | Rollitup


thanks,good thread. makes me think probably dry pan toasting the shells before adding to worm bin will probably make the Ca break down faster even without adding the vinegar. since an acid is needed to make the solution in that thread I would think boiling probably doesnt remove very much ca so it would be ok to take boiled eggshells and dry toast them as well for the worm bin.


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## Friendly_Grower (May 4, 2022)

hillbill said:


> Grit is sprinkled on here. You don’t need a great amount. It takes more than coffee grounds. Having plenty of browns in the bin is a must. Got a fancy shredder for unbleached cardboard.


There was a thing called "Mini Chipper Shredder"
It came with a 7HP engine so I said why not.

I have to cut the Amazon mostly boxes on a band saw to keep them around two inches wide so they can feed into the chipper-shredder but if I do I can shread all those Amazon boxes and if you think about it all the "consumer" cardboard.
Think about it. Buy some "fruit bars" and they come in a cardboard package. Buy Raisin Bran and it comes in cardboard!

So small branches and strips of cardboard. Yep, that's my world.


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## Friendly_Grower (May 5, 2022)

Well, vermicomposting is a slow process but a wonderful activity for those that lack the time for other composting(s) or want to make their own quality castings.

Thanks to everyone here there is now a plastic tub in the root cellar with those worms.
I think they had plenty of material in the temporary bin but now I know they have plenty for sure!

On the use of oyster shell or lime. I think what i read was correct in that we can use oyster shell or lime to reduce the acrid smells that i think are acidic conditions of decomposing foods and stuff. I did when I transferred the worm bin from the temporary bin.

I had been waiting for fabric screen to arrive and went out and bought my crafty glue gun. Fun thing!
Now I have the proper bin going and I thought to share pictures for those thinking about having their own vermicomposting bin. It's low maintenance for sure. I did have to modify my compostable materials collections. I now walk citrus and other things I believe are bad for worms out to the big composting can outside rather than put it in the convenient kitchen collection can. Cute mini-garbage can looking thing. Very respectable looking it is.

 
 

So nothing really special. A plastic bin with drain holes. Some fabric window screen hot-glued over the holes.
A bed of shredded cardboard and food stuffs for the worms.

I dumped the temporary bin in on top of the new bedding and then brought the old bottom stuffs and wet paper-fiber to the top where it can air out since it was smelling a bit anaerobic.
I then slid everything over a bit and added the full kitchen collection can in on one end.

If I understand things they will get around to eating it when they want to. There is plenty so i doubt I need to worry for four or six weeks.
I put it on the calendar so I will remember to feed them again on time. I'll be checking temperature with the cool Urban Worm thermometer. It's not a needed toy but it looked fun. I think I'll be concerned about it getting too cold when Winter comes. Perhaps a seedling heater pad may be needed to keep it in the 70s

For my Grit I mixed green sand fines with oyster shell flour.
Well, it is fun and once the bin is ready, the worms in, it looks like easy work.


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## TaoRich (May 29, 2022)

Rrog said:


> It's the way it was supposed to be.


True, dat.


I'm catching up on this thread. Am up to page 55.

I've been using worms for the past 2 outdoor grows. Almost every bit of my amendment collections is put through my worm bins.

Fresh seaside kelp
Horse shit
Rabbit poop
BSF frass
Steaming fresh spent brewer's grains
Prawn shells & heads
Household kitchen waste
Supermarket fruit & veggie spoils
Coffee shop grounds & egg shells
Last year's cannabis waste
This year's male seedlings
Dried lawn cuttings
Brown cardboard
Toilet rolls
Prickly pear cactus
Last year's organic living soil
Indigenous nursery compost which is mostly leaf & bark bits
All in all, it's a winner.

Microbial life and fungus strengthen every aspect of every stage of the plant life.

I tell people:

"I don't grow plants. I grow soil."

"It's that soil that grows my plants. Fat & densely budded terpene aromatic happy & healthy plants."

I use about 1/3 EWC by volume in my pots.
And I top dress every 3 weeks during my grow.

So back to this:



Rrog said:


> It's the way it was supposed to be.


_There is nothing new under the sun._

What we think is new science is merely a rediscovery of old ancestor knowledge.
_
{edit: autocorrect}_


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## GroBud (May 29, 2022)




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