# decarb before making canna butter?



## Surfer Joe (Dec 24, 2014)

Is it necessary to decarb the pot in the oven before using it to make canna butter?


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## skepler (Dec 24, 2014)

Joe, it is not necessary to decarb before making canna butter. I prefer to decarb the butter itself, so I can watch the process. Decarbing plant material is difficult to do evenly and consistently. The butter can be easily heated to a uniform temperature and the out-gassing from decarbing is easy to monitor. An occasional stir of the decarbing liquid with a bamboo skewer will show when the bubbling stops and decarbing is done. I like 250° (240-260° actually) for 25 minutes is typical.


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## TBoneJack (Dec 25, 2014)

skepler said:


> Joe, it is not necessary to decarb before making canna butter. I prefer to decarb the butter itself, so I can watch the process. Decarbing plant material is difficult to do evenly and consistently. The butter can be easily heated to a uniform temperature and the out-gassing from decarbing is easy to monitor. An occasional stir of the decarbing liquid with a bamboo skewer will show when the bubbling stops and decarbing is done. I like 250° (240-260° actually) for 25 minutes is typical.


I'm so glad I found this thread. I've been decarbing the plant matter instead of the butter. I'm set to make more butter in a couple of days, and will try your method then.

Thanks.


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## spek9 (Dec 25, 2014)

I'm pretty sure that the THC-A to THC conversion (decarboxylization) can not happen when the product is in the fat, and has to be done before hand.

You are losing out if you do not decarb properly first.

Simply grind your product into a powder with a coffee grinder, spread it out on a piece of tinfoil, and put into the oven at 220 degrees for 20-25 minutes. It'll turn a kind of golden brown. Then slowly stir this into your butter/oil mixture.

-spek


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## skepler (Dec 25, 2014)

I am absolutely certain that the decarbing can and does happen whether just wax, or if the wax is dissolved with an oil or with lecithin, because I watch it happen and the results are obvious. Decarbing at 220° for 20-25 minutes is incomplete decarbing anyway. It takes 25 minutes at 250°. Since a chemical reaction time is cut in half for every 10°C, 18°F, you are getting less than half the decarbing done with your methodology spek. See this graph: http://i57.tinypic.com/ea332d.jpg 
You are losing out because you are not fully decarbing, it would take an hour at 220°, you will lose some THC as it degrades while the rest decarbs, which is why the peak levels of THC drop off with the lower temperature decarbing, taking more time breaks down the THC that is already decarbed. Time and temperature are a trade off, but decarbing below 250° can only result in lower THC levels. Roughly 20% of THC is naturally decarbed in fresh buds. That would be the 3mg on the y-axis of the graph. The other 80% that is THCA, what you want to decarb would be the 15mg level. The longer the decarb, the lower the maximum level can be.


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## spek9 (Dec 25, 2014)

skepler said:


> I am absolutely certain that the decarbing can and does happen whether just wax, or if the wax is dissolved with an oil or with lecithin, because I watch it happen and the results are obvious. Decarbing at 220° for 20-25 minutes is incomplete decarbing anyway. It takes 25 minutes at 250°. Since a chemical reaction time is cut in half for every 10°C, 18°F, you are getting less than half the decarbing done with your methodology spek. See this graph: http://i57.tinypic.com/ea332d.jpg
> You are losing out because you are not fully decarbing, it would take an hour at 220°, you will lose some THC as it degrades while the rest decarbs, which is why the peak levels of THC drop off with the lower temperature decarbing, taking more time breaks down the THC that is already decarbed. Time and temperature are a trade off, but decarbing below 250° can only result in lower THC levels. Roughly 20% of THC is naturally decarbed in fresh buds. That would be the 3mg on the y-axis of the graph. The other 80% that is THCA, what you want to decarb would be the 15mg level. The longer the decarb, the lower the maximum level can be.


I appreciate the response. Looks like I have a new avenue to travel down to further my knowledge.

Cheers 

-spek


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## fumble (Dec 26, 2014)

awesome info Skepler...thanks. Would it be possible for you to do a pictorial of how you do this process. I need to see things to learn them properly, and I have asked someone before to do this and was ignored lol. I would like to try this method, side by side, with my butter and see what the difference is in potency, etc. Thanks


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## ttystikk (Dec 26, 2014)

@skepler thank you for that informative post; it seems many of nature's phenomena follow similar curves, this one reminds me of dive tables for nitrogen saturation.

I'm currently cooking my canna butter in a crockpot, which certainly does not get that hot. How do I finish the process?

Our canna treats are plenty potent, but I'm looking to fine tune our process.


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## skepler (Dec 27, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> @skepler thank you for that informative post; it seems many of nature's phenomena follow similar curves, this one reminds me of dive tables for nitrogen saturation.
> 
> I'm currently cooking my canna butter in a crockpot, which certainly does not get that hot. How do I finish the process?
> 
> Our canna treats are plenty potent, but I'm looking to fine tune our process.


Go ahead and make the butter. Then heat the butter to 250°, I use a temperature probe, for 25 minutes. Stir it with a bamboo skewer every few minutes. This gets the CO2 bubbles to exit the solution. If the plant material is old, it may be partially decarbed, so 25 minutes may be too long. Watching the bubbles diminish and end will tell you when it is done. I ran my crockpot for 20 hours, but I'm at 6600' and water boils at 200°, so it can't get hotter than that as long as there is water. When I crashed for the night I put the crockpot on a timer to cycle on and off every 30 minutes as over heating insurance since I could not watch it.


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## skepler (Dec 27, 2014)

fumble said:


> awesome info Skepler...thanks. Would it be possible for you to do a pictorial of how you do this process. I need to see things to learn them properly, and I have asked someone before to do this and was ignored lol. I would like to try this method, side by side, with my butter and see what the difference is in potency, etc. Thanks


Let me get some pics together. Give me a few days.


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## fumble (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks...i dont use a crockpot or water when making my butter...does tahat make a difference?


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## schuylaar (Dec 27, 2014)

<schuylaar pulls up a chair for the _latest_ riveting on decarboxylization>


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## skepler (Dec 27, 2014)

fumble said:


> Thanks...i dont use a crockpot or water when making my butter...does tahat make a difference?


Do you just heat the plant material and butter together to make your canna butter? If you control the temperature it should be the same. I like the water for two reasons, one it removes some chlorophyll, secondly it assures the temperature doesn't get too high, ie above boiling. I followed someone else's recipe, 4oz of trim and small buds, 3qts of water and two lbs of unsalted butter. Simmered on low in a crockpot for 10 hours, then the same setting but on a timer, half hour on, half hour off overnight, and back on to full time low simmering for a couple of hours in the next morning. Twenty hours total, nothing magical about the time, I would bet 10-16 hours would be enough. The I set up a frying oil splatter screen that usually goes over a frying pan, over a bowl. I put two layers of cheese cloth on the screen and poured the liquid into the bowl through the cheese cloth and screen. Gathering up the cloth with silicon mitts on and twisting it into a ball and squeezing as much butter out as possible could be done better with a potato ricer. I want to try that next time. Then the bowl with liquid goes into the fridge, letting the butter set up. When it has, cut two opposing holes at the edge of the butter and pour out the water. This can be refilled with cold water and rinsed a couple more times. Then cut out the butter, it is ready for decarbing, which is what I assume you want pics of? I'll get some done this week and post here.


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## skepler (Dec 27, 2014)

schuylaar said:


> <schuylaar pulls up a chair for the _latest_ riveting on decarboxylization>


At least it's more fun and faster than watching paint dry.


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## schuylaar (Dec 27, 2014)

skepler said:


> At least it's more fun and faster than watching paint dry.


yeah, it seems like there is a thread on this about every other week.

then come the ego's..it's just a natural progression here at RIU..kinda like "in before the lock".


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## ttystikk (Dec 27, 2014)

Instead of decarbing in the crockpot, I suspect we are getting much the same effect when going the next steps; baking cookies at 325 for ten minutes, or making fudge at 230 for four minutes...

Not perfect but it gets into the ballpark?


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## skepler (Dec 27, 2014)

Th


ttystikk said:


> Instead of decarbing in the crockpot, I suspect we are getting much the same effect when going the next steps; baking cookies at 325 for ten minutes, or making fudge at 230 for four minutes...
> 
> Not perfect but it gets into the ballpark?


That is what I thought for the last 30-40 years of making brownies. Then I made them with decarbed butter, using the same amount of plant material and found a world of difference. Later it occurred to me that since water turns to gas at 200° at my elevation, and my brownies do not dry out during cooking at 350° for 25 minutes, the brownies must never reach the boiling point of water or all the water would be gone. Therefore, never reaching 200°, they were not decarbing during baking. I don't decarb in the crockpot, it doesn't get hot enough with water in it, using the method I mention above.


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## fumble (Dec 27, 2014)

Cool Beans Skepler  And Schuylaar is correct lol...lots of new decarb threads lately, but just as many ways to decarb I am sure.

I used to do the water method for my butter. I have followed BadKittySmiles recipes since I started, and found her newest one for butter/oils. I decarb in the pyrex, covered in foil first, then add my clarified butter and lecithin and mix it up with the weed. Cover tightly with the foil again and cook for 1 hour at 215 (supposed to be 212, but my oven has 210 or 215 so...then let cool completely and put in freezer for at least 2 hours or overnight. Then I bring to room temp and put back in oven at same temp for 2 hours. Strain and portion. I guess I am not too worried about removing the clorophyll, as I have never had anyone say anything about it being a problem. My butter is very weedy tasting though...extra spices help with that 

I think I am picturing what your decarb is though. You put into top of double boiler and bring water to boil (212f here I believe) and reduce to simmer? Watch the bubbles coming to the top of the butter until they taper off? Pics would be awesome though hun...thanks


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## schuylaar (Dec 28, 2014)

so my edibles are not all they can be and i'm eager to learn why.

thanks for any insight.


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## BobBitchen (Dec 28, 2014)

fumble said:


> Cool Beans Skepler  And Schuylaar is correct lol...lots of new decarb threads lately, but just as many ways to decarb I am sure.
> 
> I used to do the water method for my butter. I have followed BadKittySmiles recipes since I started, and found her newest one for butter/oils. I decarb in the pyrex, covered in foil first, then add my clarified butter and lecithin and mix it up with the weed. Cover tightly with the foil again and cook for 1 hour at 215 (supposed to be 212, but my oven has 210 or 215 so...then let cool completely and put in freezer for at least 2 hours or overnight. Then I bring to room temp and put back in oven at same temp for 2 hours. Strain and portion. I guess I am not too worried about removing the clorophyll, as I have never had anyone say anything about it being a problem. My butter is very weedy tasting though...extra spices help with that
> 
> I think I am picturing what your decarb is though. You put into top of double boiler and bring water to boil (212f here I believe) and reduce to simmer? Watch the bubbles coming to the top of the butter until they taper off? Pics would be awesome though hun...thanks


I also have found Badkittys method to work the best for me


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## skepler (Dec 28, 2014)

fumble said:


> Cool Beans Skepler  And Schuylaar is correct lol...lots of new decarb threads lately, but just as many ways to decarb I am sure.
> 
> I used to do the water method for my butter. I have followed BadKittySmiles recipes since I started, and found her newest one for butter/oils. I decarb in the pyrex, covered in foil first, then add my clarified butter and lecithin and mix it up with the weed. Cover tightly with the foil again and cook for 1 hour at 215 (supposed to be 212, but my oven has 210 or 215 so...then let cool completely and put in freezer for at least 2 hours or overnight. Then I bring to room temp and put back in oven at same temp for 2 hours. Strain and portion. I guess I am not too worried about removing the clorophyll, as I have never had anyone say anything about it being a problem. My butter is very weedy tasting though...extra spices help with that
> 
> I think I am picturing what your decarb is though. You put into top of double boiler and bring water to boil (212f here I believe) and reduce to simmer? Watch the bubbles coming to the top of the butter until they taper off? Pics would be awesome though hun...thanks


No, my decarb is in a small pot on a cast iron plate over the lowest flame on the smallest burner. I let it get to 250°, cut the heat, let it cool to the low 240°s, turn the heat back on, and repeat this cycling for 25 minutes. I have a digital temperature probe in the canna butter to watch the temperature constantly. regular stirring will keep the temperature homogeneous and let you know when the bubbling stops when decarbing is mostly done.


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## fumble (Dec 28, 2014)

mmk...so I was sorta lost with my original view of your decarb. Is a cast iron plate the same as a cast iron skillet? I don't have a gas stove, but I imagine I could get the same effect by just removing the pot from the burner when it gets to temp. I will be having some free time coming up after this week and plan on giving this a try. Not sure if I will incorporate it into my usual butter routine, but I am anxious to see the difference in the decarb and the effect it has on the final butter 

@BobBitchen ...BKS is the ultimate!!! Love her


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## ttystikk (Dec 28, 2014)

@miss J makes some truly amazing treats, you canna wait for dessert to try 'em!


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## skepler (Dec 29, 2014)

The cast iron piece I was referring to is a heat diffuser plate, or burner plate. Never knew what they were called, even after using one for over 50 years. It sits over the gas flame or electric coils to slow the heat transfer, give a lower temperature range, and heat the pan on it more evenly. Just to make it clear in case I didn't before, when decarbing I have a probe in the butter at all times. I let the temperature get up to 250°F and turn off the heat. It will continue to heat, near 260°, just let it cool to 245°ish, and turn the lowest heat back on. It will continue to cool, perhaps down to 240° before the heating overtakes the cooling and it reheats. This will make it average 250°, and since the decarb bubbling stops at or near 25 minutes, it agrees with this graph pretty closely for 252° for 27 minutes:
http://i57.tinypic.com/ea332d.jpg


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## fumble (Dec 29, 2014)

Mmk...ic ic. I've never seen a cast iron plate like ...very cool idea. Thanks for explaining everything. I will let you know how it turns out


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## Dr. Who (Jan 5, 2015)

skepler said:


> Th
> 
> That is what I thought for the last 30-40 years of making brownies. Then I made them with decarbed butter, using the same amount of plant material and found a world of difference. Later it occurred to me that since water turns to gas at 200° at my elevation, and my brownies do not dry out during cooking at 350° for 25 minutes, the brownies must never reach the boiling point of water or all the water would be gone. Therefore, never reaching 200°, they were not decarbing during baking. I don't decarb in the crockpot, it doesn't get hot enough with water in it, using the method I mention above.


Exactly!
You can not decarb by baking!
The "Goodie" doesn't get hot enough, long enough as the material baked does not get near the oven temp.
While it's bigger then anything baked, it does stay in the oven very much longer,,,,,,SO, think of a turkey in the oven. 325 deg and it's there for 4+ hrs....That's to only reach 165 -185 deg.....

250 for 30 min is the optimum......material must reach 220 before the Co2 begins to vaporize.






In your oil or not will work.
If you choose to decarb on a cookie sheet in the oven.....put down a sheet of parchment paper and COVER the cookie sheet with tin foil sealed to the sheet edge.

GRIND your bud and spread evenly over the parchment


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## Texas(THC) (Jan 7, 2015)

for fumble




here is a decent video of someone decarbing bho using a double boiler
pretty long but it is a good example.. (this is what I do)
I think this is what Skepler is doing but with cannabutter

hope that helps


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## fumble (Jan 7, 2015)

Awesome Texas! It sure does...thanks so much. I get it now lol


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## fumble (Jan 15, 2015)

Damn...just when I am ready to do this, my computer wont let me see any videos. I made a test batch of butter. Now to decarb it this way. I will figure it out without the vid and let you know how it turns out.


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## fumble (Jan 16, 2015)

Haha! But i can watch it on my phone...will do it when i get home. My oven fried so i am using my parents at the moment to make pizza lol


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