# Mycorrhiza 101...



## jberry (Oct 27, 2009)

Mycorrhiza... 


"Endomycorrhiza" is a specific type of mycorrhiza, and "arbuscular mycorrhiza" is just a more specific name for endomycorrhiza.

Arbuscular mycorrhiza (AM) is a mutually beneficial partnership between beneficial fungi and plants. - the plant gets something it needs from the fungus (mostly soil nutrients) and in exchange the fungus gets sugar or carbon. 

In just one handful of good soil/coco there are more than 100 million bacteria, several miles of fungal filaments, and another million of algae, protozoa, and nematodes combined. This diverse community is responsible for nutrient cycling and storage and provides competition for disease causing organisms. Soil fungi are the dominant residents of this community, contributing over 50% of the soil biomass. The obvious stars of this living soil are a specialized group of beneficial soil fungi that form an intimate relationship with plant roots. This relationship is called mycorrhiza. Mycorrhiza plays a key role in plant-soil health and functioning.

The AM fungal hyphae increase the amount of soil that the plant roots can "mine" for nutrients and thus increases the soil nutrient uptake. This works most effectively on nutrients that are poorly mobile in the soil. Phosphorus is a particularly "sticky" nutrient and extremely important in plant nutrition so it gets a starring role but mycorrhiza has also been shown to increase the uptake of other poorly mobile nutrients.

*Watch Phosphorus*

Fertilization Phosphorus plays a major role in the establishment and functioning of the symbiosis. High phosphorus fertilization limits mycorrhiza effectiveness, but low to moderate levels of phosphorus or the use of slow release forms such as rock phosphate maximize plant benefits from mycorrhiza.


*Increased Drought and Pest Tolerance*

Along with accessing more nutrients, the hyphae also allow greater access to water. In addition, the extensive hyphal network block pest access to roots. The improved plant nutrition of mycorrhizal plants also boosts the plants natural ability to fight drought and pests.


Increased Tolerance to Toxic Heavy Metals:

Mycorrhiza alleviates root stunting typically caused by toxic metals, thereby increasing nutrient uptake. AM fungi may also bind metals in the root zone and alter the plant cells ability to capture the metals.


*Improved Soil Aggregation*

The AM fungal hyphae has also been shown to excrete gluey sugar based compounds termed "Glomalin" which helps to bind soil particles and create stable soil aggregates, which gives the soil structure and improves water and air infiltration as well as enhance carbon and nutrient storage.


*Enhance Biodiversity of Soil Microorganisms*

The presence of mycorrhiza also increases the biodiversity of soil microbe populations, which creates a healthy soil ecosystem. What a healthy soil ecosystem means to plants is improved nutrient cycling and retention, improved air and water relations, and importantly resistance to invasion and establishment of disease causing organisms.


*BOOST PLANTS "IMMUNE SYSTEM"*

All of these benefits are actually interrelated and all work together to make the plant healthy by recreating a "Living Soil". 

Mycorrhiza... 

Increase Plant Establishment 
Sustain Plant Production and Productivity 
Reduce Soil Erosion 
Reduce Transplant Shock 
Reduced Use of Fertilizers and Pesticides 
Lower Water Requirement 
Increased Soil Aeration and Drainage 


How much Mycorrhizae do I need?


Specifying Mycorrhiza, or more specifically, mycorrhizal inoculant (inoculum and inoculant are the same) is like specifying "grass seed." You must specify the right kind in the right amounts in the right form. Just like you would not specify "pounds of grass seed product" per acre you need to specify numbers of ENDO mycorrhiza propagules per acre. 

Remember; ECTO mycorrhizal spores will not benefit your ENDO mycorrhizal plants. If you wish for the benefits of mycorrhiza to Pines, Firs and Spruces and certain Oaks you would specify ECTO mycorrhiza as spores. For planting individual seedlings it is most cost effective to apply the correct mycorrhiza or a cocktail of both ENDO and ECTO mycorrhiza to each seedling with a root dip. A mycorrhizal material that does not clarify the specific amount of each kind of spores or propagules in its' inoculants may be "watered down" with cheap material that is not of benefit to your target plants. 








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*This fungus is wholly dependent upon relationships with higher plants and attaches itself to roots in order to obtain carbohydrates which the plant provides. In exchange, mycorrhizae perform a myriad of chores to protect the plant and encourage growth. Most importantly, it grows a complex network of fungal filament that can mine a far greater area of the soil based moisture and nutrients than a naked root. (up to 50 times more area). It also produces a complex by product known as "glomalin" that improves soil structure allowing greater movement of moisture the topsoil and into natural aquifers.*


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*


*Glomalin is produced by Arbuscular Mycorrhizal Fungi (AMF). Discovered by NRCS Soil Scientists in 1996, "Glomalin", was noted by two characteristics; The first was the apparent abundance of this material that was produced by AMF and the second was the "toughness" of its molecular structure. It was observed that higher levels of "Glomalin" improve water infiltration, increase soil permeability to air, promote greater root development, higher microbial activity and greater resistance to surface sealing (crusts) and erosion (wind / water). It is thought that "Glomalin" helps protect the filaments or hyphae produced by mycorrhizal fungi that collect moisture and nutrients for the host plants. The plants in return, supply large amounts of carbon to the fungi, which in part is used to produce "Glomalin". The carbon sequestration resulting from this process can reach 40% or greater of the total carbon retained within the plant itself.*


*Limit Use of Fungicides*

Some fungicides have been found to damage AM fungi. 

*Limit Soil Disturbance*

Severe disruption of the soil hyphae limits nutrient and water movement into the 
plant root.


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## Carbon (Oct 27, 2009)

I hope this is the first in a series.

Now that we have the basic facts, how do we apply in practice?

Carbon


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## jberry (Oct 27, 2009)

there are plenty of products out there, i am currently using Great White by Plant Success and Mykos from Xtreme Gardening... just follow the directions on the label...
the idea is to build the fungi colonies up as large as you can as early in life as posible, i use during veg and bloom but i usually stop using it around week 6 of flower.

this stuff is awesome and my yields have gone up since i started inoculating my garden...

the guy who has grown the largest/heaviest world record pumpkin says that it is all due to inoculating his soil.... he uses the brand "Mykos" .... they also make "Mykos-30" whick contains some other ingredients and organic fertilizer.

compost teas are also a great way to build up colonies.

do you have any specific questions?


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## Shrubs First (Oct 27, 2009)

Carbon said:


> I hope this is the first in a series.
> 
> Now that we have the basic facts, how do we apply in practice?
> 
> Carbon


There are several companies selling it, it is usually included in the full line-up of any popular nutrient brand, Advanced Nutes, Humboldt Nutes, Botanicare... You usually have to "brew" the Microzymes and then apply to the soil, after which you supplement with enzymes such as Hygrozyme or SensiZyme from Advanced...


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## aubud (Oct 29, 2009)

This needs to stay 1st page or stickied, this is the advanced section and many people could gain info from that....
DOes this stuff have any application in hydro? your first answer may be no, but think about in the netpot around the hydroton and rockwool....


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## Schmarmpit (Oct 29, 2009)

http://www.rid-x.com/faq.shtml

Has anyone ever tried using Rid-X to boost the colonies in the soil? I've heard good things about it.


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## aubud (Oct 29, 2009)

Schmarmpit said:


> http://www.rid-x.com/faq.shtml
> 
> Has anyone ever tried using Rid-X to boost the colonies in the soil? I've heard good things about it.


You are flirting with disaster, dont do it! im finding the post i need to show you right now!


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## aubud (Oct 29, 2009)

texashustle said:


> Jesus christ! I cant believe I did this. I tried it out as another member raved about how great it was. Bullshit. Within 6 hours my plants where drooped over, almost dead. I changed out the water and hoped for the best. The plants perked back up but are kind of light colored. The roots still have slimy shit all over them and I dont know what to do. I added some Hydroguard and plants look better but roots are horrible.
> 
> You guys think these femd girls will live and grow to flower or become hermies now?





Dystopia said:


> I believe Rid-X is designed to provide/increase ANAEROBIC bacteria in an ANAEROBIC system - your septic tank. It does this by introducing anaerobic bacteria and food to the tank, as well as using a buffer to raise the pH of the tank to 7.0, which is more condusive to anaerobic bacteria growth.
> 
> So if you want anaerobic bacteria (which are the bad slime monsters that eat anything they can get their hands on in an aerobic DWC system) then add Rid-X and feed them with molasses.
> 
> ...



Hope u didnt already! not sure how it works in soil, but i cringed when i heard this guys story with dwc


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## Schmarmpit (Oct 29, 2009)

No I did not, but thanks for the reply. I always wondered about that stuff. I'm close to harvest and there is no point in messing around with things now.


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## jberry (Oct 30, 2009)

aubud said:


> This needs to stay 1st page or stickied, this is the advanced section and many people could gain info from that....
> DOes this stuff have any application in hydro? your first answer may be no, but think about in the netpot around the hydroton and rockwool....


GREAT WHITE claims that it works well in hydro systems and i know some pros on here can agree on that. (I think they can colonize in the root mass)

some of these products have directions for foiliar spray feedings.... this way it wouldnt matter what grow method you use. (i have never tried this myself tho)

I'm growing in pure Canna Coco and the colonies can really thrive in this stuff. The MYKOS comes in a oversized tea bag and i suspect that the colonize can build up right in the tea bag that floats in the rez.


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## jberry (Nov 3, 2009)

*Terminology of commonly used soil Microbes*​ *Algae: *Slime, single or multi-celled organisms that are photosynthetic that absorb nitrogen from the air and release oxygen.

*
Soil Bacteria:* single or multi-celled soil organisms that breakdown organic matter, mineralize nutrients that are locked up in soil and fix nitrogen from the air. Most of the beneficial bacteria are aerobic or require oxygen to survive.Othersare _"anaerobic"_ and produce toxins such as alcohols and stinky sulfur compounds.A group known as _"actinomycetes"_ actively thrive in the soil, eating dead vegetation, fungi and other organisms.The smell of _"fresh garden soil"_ is a sign of an _actinomycetes_ presence.
*Fungi: *Organisms known as *"saprophytic" *fungi break organic matter down.Others known as *"mutualists"* such as mycorrhizae can solubilize and transfer nutrients to host plants.*"Pathogens"* or parasitic fungi live of plants, destroying roots and often killing the host plant

*
Nematodes: *Small ugly wormlike animals that feed on many organisms in the soil including other nematodes.Parasitic nematodes attach to plant roots and suck nutrients out of the host.

*
Protozoa: *Single celled animals that mineralize nutrients, eat bacteria, poop out nitrogen and feed on many pathogens.
*
*
*Arbuscular Mycorrhizae (AM): *Soil-Root-Fungus comprises 90% of living biomass in healthy soils.They facilitate the services of several other beneficial organisms by providing nutrients and moisture to host plants. Plants then release carbohydrates into the soil or deposit leaf litter to complete the *"Nutrient Cycle"* Mycorrhizal fungi directly or indirectly supply 11 of the 14 necessary nutrients found in soil.If soil microbes were a football team, mycorrhizae would be the "quarterback".
*
Azosprillum: *A member of the *"Diazotrophic" *family of bacteria that removes nitrogen from the air.*Azosprillum* bacteria are naturally more common in tropical and semi tropical areas where poor soil and climatic conditions have created a strong dependence by plants on these microbes for a supply of nitrogen (N 2) which they convert to ammoniacal (NH4) that becomes available to plants.
*
Glomalin:*A carbon based substance secreted by mycorrhizal hyphae.Recently identified in 1995, *"glomalin"* is known to be a soil super glue, improving aggregation, increasing moisture storage and providing a food source for nitrogen fixing bacteria.*Glomalin* is also a carbon sink as mycorrhizal plants will remove 30% more CO2 from the air than non mycorrhizal plants.
*
Hyphae: *Thin threadlike filaments that mycorrhizal fungi produce.These grow outward from the roots of host plants and extract moisture and nutrients from areas far beyond the reach of the root system. Moisture and nutrient acquisition can be increased by 40 to 50 fold over non mycorrhizal plants!!!
*
Hypoxia: *The scientific term for the *dead zones* created around the continent from chemical pollution.A significant amount of the contamination is from nitrogen and phosphorus fertilizers.
*
Isolate: *A selection of a natural organism that has been made because of a specific property or characteristic.All the *Symbios* organisms in both *AZOs* and *Mykos* are isolates selected for improved growth, yield, moisture management and disease suppression qualities.
*
Soluble fertilizers: *Plant nutrients that have been processed with acids to become salts.This allows them to be highly soluble in water.Soluble fertilizers feed plants directly, supplying nutrients to the roots, but because salts are also sterilants, they kill off many beneficial organisms.
*
Organic fertilizers: *Nutrients bound by a carbon-oxygen and hydrogen atom.Release generally requires biological activity which increases soil dynamics as well as nutrient supplies to plants
*
Fertilizers: *The 14 elements or minerals required to support healthy plant growth
*
Primary nutrients:* Nitrogen, Phosphorus and Potassium
*
Secondary nutrients:* Calcium, Sulfur and Magnesium
*
Micro-nutrients: *Iron, Zinc, Copper, Manganese, Boron, Chlorine, Molybdenum and Selenium 
*
Nutrient Mineralization: *Acquisition of these fourteen elements through microbial action including those of bacterial, fungal and several other organisms.







*Nitrogen Fixing Microbes*: - Bacteria and cyanobacteria 

*Bacteria*: - Rhizobium, Azospirillum, Azotobacter, Azotococcus etc...

*Cyanobacteria*: - Anabena, Nostoc, Cleptonema etc...

*Phosphate solubulizing Microbes*: - Such as Bacillus megaterium, Bacillus subtilis, xanthomonas and pseudomonas are used.

*Mycorhiza*: - Fungal Biofertilizers.

The spores of vesicular-arbuscular mycorrhizas fungi like Glomous, Gigaspera, Acaulospora, and Endogone are used. 

*Nitrogen fixing Microbes*:-

Nitrogen is the most abundant element in our atmosphere. It is a vital element as many classes of compounds essential to living systems are nitrogen containing compounds. Nitrogen is a primary nutrient for all green plants, but it must be modified before it can be readily utilized by most living systems. Nitrogen fixation is one process by which nodules nitrogen is reduced form ammonia. This complex process is carried out by nitrogen fixing bacteria present in the soil. 

*Rhizobium Biofertilizers*: - (Nitrogen Fixing Microbes) 

Bacteria of the genus Rhizobium play a very important role in agriculture by inducing nitrogen fixing nodules on the roots of legumes such as peas, beans, clover, green gram, ground nuts and soybean etc Rhizobium can fix atmospheric nitrogen only in the root nodules of legumes. The nodules are the sites of nitrogen fixation. In most cases the rhizobia bacteria produces indole acetic acid (IAA) as stimulatory substance.

These Bacterial cells multiply and colonize inside the plant roots. Then they become dormant cells called Bacteroid. These bacteroids are capable of N2 fixation. The bacteria obtain their nutrients and source of energy from the plant and in turn fix atmospheric nitrogen and make it available to the plant. The nitrogen is fixed in the nodules with the help of the enzyme nitrogenase. 

*Azotobacter Biofertilizers*: - (Nitrogen Fixing Microbes) 

Azotobacter is a free living nitrogen fixing bacterium, which is used as a biofertilizer in the cultivation of most crops. Azotobacter is effective in increasing yields of crops in well menured soil with high organic matter content. It is also known to synthesized biologically active substances such as B-vitamins, indole acetic acid and gibberellins in pure cultures.

These attributes of Azotobacter explain the observed beneficial effect of the bacteria is improving seed germination, plant growth, plant stands, and vegetative growth. 

*Azospirillum Biofertilizers* :- (Nitrogen fixing microbes)

Azospirillum may be important in colonization of the plant root by the bacteria swimming motility in Azospirillum is thought to play a role in the movement of the bacteria toward the plant roots, and chemotaxins to plant roots exudates is presumed to be initial stage of colonization. Swarming across the surfaces of the roots may be important for long term colonization.

*Cyanobacterial Biofertilizers*: - (Nitrogen Fixing Microbes)

*Cyanobacteria (Blue Green Algae)* constitute an important group of micro organisms capable of fixing atmospheric nitrogen. Most of the nitrogen fixing blue-green algae belongs to the order. Nostoc, Anabaena and chlorogloea etc...

*Phosphate Solubulizing Micro organisms*:-

Next to nitrogen phosphorus is another key element in plant metabolism and soil metabolism and in soil microbiological process. Phosphorus is an essential in seed formation and occurs in large quantities in plant, seed and fruit. Two symptoms of phosphate deficiency are produced on is plant size reduces and deep green color of the leaves.

*Phosphate Solubilization*:-

The most important aspects on phosphorus cycle are microbiological process of mineralization, solubilization and immobilization besides chemical fixation of phosphorus in soil.

The results of many laboratory studies have implicated the activities of soil micro organisms in the solubilization of inorganic soil phosphate. Solubilization is due to microbial production of organic and inorganic acids which effectively dissolved inorganic phosphates and render them available to the soil flora and growing plants. In other words, phosphate solubilization is the process to dissolution of insoluble form of phosphate to soluble form by the action of microorganisms.

Many micro organisms produce lactic acid, glycolic citric and acetic acids which can solubilize such compounds as tricalcium phosphate, synthetic apatite and natural apatite microbial solubilization of inorganic phosphatic compounds is of great economic importance in plant nutrition phosphate solubulizing bacteria and fungi play an important role it converting insoluble phosphate compounds such as rock phosphate bone meal and basic slag, and particularly chemically fixed soil phosphorus into available form. These special types of micro organisms are termed as phosphate solubulizing micro organisms.

Phosphate solubulizing organisms involved influence the phosphate solubulizing rate in the soil. Bacillus megaterium, pseudomonas putida are the phosphate solubulizing Bacteria respectively fungi (VAM) are better solubuilizers than bacteria and other organisms. 

*Mechanisms of Phosphate Solubilization*:-

The solubilization of phosphate by micro organisms is attributed to excretion of organic acids like citric, glutamic, succinic, lactic, oxalic, glyoxalic, maleic, fumaric, tartaric and alpha keto butyric. Bacillus megaterium and other micro organism's weather rock phosphate and tricalcium phosphate by decreasing the particle size reducing it to nearly amorphous forms. The action of organic acids has been attributed to their ability to form stable complexes with metallic elements. In addition to phosphate solubilization they can mineralize organic phosphate into a soluble form.

*vesicular-arbuscular mycorrhizas fungi Biofertilizers*:-
Vasicular arbuscular mycorrhiza (VAM) is by far the most widespread types of mycorrhiza the VAM fungi penetrate into the cortical host cells, but the invading mycelium usually lives only a short time intracellular. VAM fungi do not form sheath as around the root, but a network of extrametrical hyphae usually develops. This grows into the soil and can extend the mycelium several centimeters beyond the root surface. The total hyphal length can reach more than one meter of hyphae per infected root.


There is an increased uptake of nutrients and water transport from soil, particularly in fertile soil and thus an increase in plant growth.
Mycorrhizal roots may affort protection to trees and annual plants from infection by feeder root pathogens which either reduce or kill growth in plants (Biological Control).
Mycorrhiza makes plants drought and frost resistant.
The VAM or ectomycorrhizal fungi control the disease by producing antibiotics or root exudation which favours the growth of mycorrhized fungi. There are evidences that the mycorrhizal fungi also produce oxalic acid in sufficient quantities which suppress the growth of pathogenic fungi selectively.


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## jberry (Nov 3, 2009)

Mycorrhizal products, pitfals and promise... 

*Myths about Mycorrhizae:* 


The sale of mycorrhizal inoculums is currently under regulated. There are several companies promoting products that have little no infective potential. Some companies also make ridiculous and unsubstantiated claims while others confuse end users by including ecto-mycorrhizal fungi which are of no use to any plants other than spruce, pine and few other trees. 


*Mycorrhizal Inoculants:* 


which are beneficial? Some products have both endo mycorrhizae and ecto-mycorrhizae listed on the label. Ecto mycorrhizae inoculum has huge spore counts with concentrations of 80 million or more per c.c. It is therefore inexpensive to add a little and report large spore counts in a product. They are however only of value to most conifers and a few hardwoods. Endo mycorrhizae forms beneficial associations with over 80% of all plants including most commercial fruit and vegetable crops (except the brassica (cabbage), chenopod (spinach and beets). Pigweed and other members of the Amaranthae family are also not able to form mycorrhizal associations. 


*Mislabeling:
*

There are very few mycorrhizal taxonomists that can tell the difference between different species of arbuscular mycorrhizae. Some products claim species that are difficult to culture, others will claim two species such as Glomus intraradices and Glomus aggregatum knowing full well that they are the same species. 


*Not All Mycorrhizal Fungi are Beneficial: 
*

Like populations of any species, there are families and isolates that have particularly valuable traits. Isolates should be selected for improving plant biomass or improving plant health. Five of the species / isolates currently under production are accessed from INVAM, at the U of WV, an internationally recognized source of pure mycorrhizal cultures. The one other isolate, Glomus intraradices 801 is a selection from Native Plants, Inc, a pioneer in the scientific assessment of beneficial mycorrhizae. It is probably the most well studied and recognized isolate in academic research. 

*Application Rates: 
*

Infectivity by even the most potent inoculum requires at least 20 spores for seed and 100 to 200 spores per transplant. 

*Delivery Methods: 

*
Mycorrhizal inoculants cannot effectively be applied through a spray application, a drip system or as crushed tablets. The spores and other propagules must be cultured in a dry medium and when this is ground down to pass through a nozzle, crushed to form a tablet or purported to be present as something other than spores, the information is false.


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## jberry (Nov 3, 2009)

Common Mycorrhizal products tested Article Details *Last Updated*
15th of June, 2009



Products were tested by Western Labs. The lab tests 50ml samples of product. To put the data into perspective Ron Wallance, a well known Giant Pumpkin grower, had his cover crop soil tested. His spore count was 600, showing that common Mycorrhizal products are lacking in potency. Although Western Labs has said that anything above 30 is considered 'good'.
The product from RTI that appears in these charts is Pumpkin Pro. We settled on the 3000 figure because our counts varied from as high as 10,000 and down to 1500.






















RTI Products....


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 3, 2009)

Been there, done that.

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/182500-mycorrhizal-fungi-applications-cannabis-caveats.html


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## jberry (Nov 3, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> Been there, done that.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/182500-mycorrhizal-fungi-applications-cannabis-caveats.html


well i guess thats what happens uncle ben.... the search engine on this site sucks ass.

But I think that there is room for two... especially since there is a lot of info in my new thread that isnt in yours.... and it's just getting started...


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## jberry (Nov 4, 2009)

How does mycorrhizae prevent root pathogens ... 

In a natural ecosystem where the uptake of phosphorus is low, a major role of mycorrhizal fungi may be protection of the root system from endemic pathogens such as Fusarium spp. Mycorrhizae may stimulate root colonization by selected biocontrol agents, but our understanding of these interactions is meager. Much more research has been conducted on the potential effects of mycorrhizal colonization on root pathogens. Mycorrhizal fungi may reduce the incidence and severity of root diseases. The mechanisms proposed to explain this protective effect include: 

(i) development of a mechanical barrier-especially the mantle of the EM-to infection by pathogens, 
(ii) production of antibiotic compounds that suppress the pathogen, 
(iii) competition for nutrients with the pathogen, including production of siderophores,
(iv) induction of generalized host defense mechanisms.


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## jberry (Nov 5, 2009)

*Microbial inoculants* also known as soil inoculants are agricultural amendments that use beneficial microbes (bacteria or fungi) to promote plant health. Many of the microbes involved form symbiotic relationships with the target crops where both parties benefit (mutualism). While microbial inoculants are applied to improve plant nutrition, they can also be used to promote plant growth by stimulating plant hormone production (Bashan & Holguin, 1997; Sullivan, 2001).
Research into the benefits of inoculants in agriculture extends beyond their capacity as biofertilisers. Microbial inoculants can initiate systemic acquired resistance (SAR) of crop species to several common crop diseases. So far SAR has been demonstrated for powdery mildew (_Blumeria graminis_ f. sp. _hordei_, Heitefuss, 2001), take-all (_Gaeumannomyces graminis_ var. _tritici_, Khaosaad _et al._, 2007), leaf spot (_Pseudomonas syringae_, Ramos Solano _et al._, 200 and root rot (_Fusarium culmorum_, Waller _et al._ 2005).



*Rhizobacterial inoculants*

The rhizobacteria commonly applied as inoculants include nitrogen-fixers and phosphate-solubilisers which enhance the availability of the macronutrients nitrogen and phosphorus to the host plant. Such bacteria are commonly referred to as plant growth promoting rhizobacteria (PGPR).
*Nitrogen-fixing bacteria*

The most commonly applied rhizobacteria are _Rhizobium_ and closely related genera. _Rhizobium_ are nitrogen-fixing bacteria that form symbiotic associations within nodules on the roots of legumes. This increases host nitrogen nutrition and is important to the cultivation of soybeans, chickpeas and many other leguminous crops. For non-leguminous crops, _Azospirillum_ has been demonstrated to be beneficial for nitrogen fixation and plant nutrition (Bashan & Holguin, 1997).
For cereal crops, diazotrophic rhizobacteria have increased plant growth (Galal _et al._, 2003), grain yield (Caballero-Mellado _et al._, 1992), nitrogen and phosphorus uptake (Galal _et al._, 2003), and nitrogen (Caballero-Mellado _et al._, 1992), phosphorus (Caballero-Mellado _et al._, 1992; Belimov _et al._, 1995) and potassium content (Caballero-Mellado _et al._, 1992).
*Phosphate-solubilising bacteria*

To improve phosphorus nutrition, the use of phosphate-solubilising bacteria (PSB) such as _Agrobacterium radiobacter_ has also received attention (Belimov _et al._, 1995a; 1995b; Singh & Kapoor, 1999). As the name suggests, PSB are free-living bacteria that break down inorganic soil phosphates to simpler forms that enable uptake by plants.
*Fungal inoculants*

Several different fungal inoculants have been explored for their benefits to plant nutrition. The most commonly investigated fungi for this purpose are the arbuscular mycorrhizae (AM). Other endophytic fungi, such as _Piriformis indica_ can also be beneficial (Waller _et al._, 2005).
*Composite inoculants*

The combination of strains of Plant Growth Promoting Rhizobacteria has been shown to benefit rice (_Oryza_, Nguyen _et al._ (2002)) and barley (_Hordeum_, Belimov _et al._ (1995a)). The main benefit from dual inoculants is increased plant nutrient uptake, from both soil and fertiliser (Bashan _et al._, 2004; Belimov _et al._ 1995a). Interestingly, multiple strain inoculants have also been demonstrated to increase total nitrogenase activity compared to single strain inoculants, even when only one strain is diazotrophic (Lippi _et al._, 1992; Khammas & Kaiser, 1992, Belimov _et al._ 1995a).
PGPR and arbuscular mycorrhizae in combination can be useful in increasing wheat growth in nutrient poor soil (Singh & Kapoor, 1999) and improving nitrogen-extraction from fertilised soils (Galal _et al._, 2003). In salinised soils, Rabie (2005) found that inoculating AM-infected _Vicia faba_ plants with _Azospirillum brasilense_ amplified the beneficial effects of AM inoculation.


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## Apache (Nov 28, 2009)

Here is a great TED talk with Paul Stamets who wrote Mycelium Running, a great read FYI. 

http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/258


I want to try http://www2.mailordercentral.com/fungi/Prodinfo.ASP?NUMBER=HMME1O&VARIATION=&AITEM=1&MITEM=1 for my next grow with KaBoom Seeds from Subcool. Has any one else tried this?


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## jberry (Nov 28, 2009)

Apache said:


> Here is a great TED talk with Paul Stamets who wrote Mycelium Running, a great read FYI.
> 
> http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/258
> 
> ...



im waiting for my ka-boom seeds right now.......... i know Subcool is only releasing them in small test amounts at this point.......

i'll let you know how they work out in a couple months, i hope its a winner!


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## Apache (Nov 29, 2009)

jberry said:


> im waiting for my ka-boom seeds right now.......... i know Subcool is only releasing them in small test amounts at this point.......
> 
> i'll let you know how they work out in a couple months, i hope its a winner!


Same here, I should have the seeds here by mid December. I will keep an eye out for a Grow log form you.

Thank you so much for posting all of this info on here!

Cheers,


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## couchlock907 (Nov 29, 2009)

down to earth is what i use like the guy said increased yields for me too go! team foxfarm


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## couchlock907 (Nov 29, 2009)

FFarms light warriors contains it also pro-mix bp


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## jberry (Dec 30, 2009)

So for the last few months or so Ive been experimenting with some different brands of inoculants and so far "Symbios Pumpkin Pro" aka "Mykos" by Xtreme Gardening/RTI has worked the best and also happens to be the cheapest brand ive used. (18 bucks a pound)

Plant Success makes a Granular Premium Mycorrhiza, and it works really well, and i would also recommend this if u cant get pumpkin pro or great white. but im not sure how much it costs (i got free samples at a gardening expo)

Great White, also by Plant Success works good too, and it is one of the few powders that can be used in a hydroponic system. (35 bucks for a little 4oz. jar but i got the first jar free)

I also used Myco Madness by Humboldt and Roots Organics Oregonism XL by Aurora, but not enough to get results or it wasnt any good? idk?

here is the pumpkin pro info, it is as good as they say imo.

Symbios Pumpkin Pro Bidding Specs 

Labels 

RTI produces several select mycorrhizal isolates for improved crop yield and environmental restoration. All of our species were selected after extensive screening by research scientists and universities throughout this country as well as Brazil. These all provide superior growth, crop protection or improved vegetation re-establishment. While we believe the superiority of the single species isolate Glomus intraradices (RTI-801) selection that forms the basis for Pumpkin Pro is the best choice for growth, some growers have expressed interest in a multi species blend. We are therefore adding an additional blend; Symbios Pumpkin Pro III.

This is a combination of the following species:

50% Glomus intraradices (RTI-801) isolated for increased yield with several crops.

25% Glomus claroideum (RTI-55-21-147A) isolated in Brazil for growth and yield.

25% Glomus clarum (RTI-55-21-147B) also isolated for growth and yield in Brazil.

Biological and Biostimulant Recommendations for Growers:

RTI does not blend in additional biostimulants. We currently offer just the straight goods. Blending would dilute the concentration of mycorrhizal infectivity. Many of these amendments and bio-agents are extremely valuable to your cultural practice, but we recommend that you add these yourself and to make sure you get these products from credible sources. You can find trichoderma, streptomyces and bacillus under the fingernails of most four year olds after a day in the park. That does not mean they are beneficial selections for use in crop production. Reliable suppliers with a history of customer satisfaction are the best source. 

The following is a list of products or soil amendments that are known to be compatible or synergistic when combined with Symbios Pumpkin Pro. 

Humic Acids:

Function primarily as chelating agents, particularly with phosphorus. Both Leonardite and Rutile sand derivatives have been combined with Symbios and are compatible and possibly synergistic.

Kelp Products:

A source of cytokinin like material that enhances root and shoot division. These can produce synergistic effects when combined with mycorrhizae. kelp meals and powders are a good food source for other "Root Growth Promoting Rhizobacteria" or "RGPRs". The more refined products are concentrated sources of cytokinin and some must be registered as "Plant Growth Regulators". Maxi-Crop, Acadian and North American Kelp products are all compatible / possibly synergistic when used with Symbios.

Trichoderma: 

Certain isolates are registered or known to be "Pathogen Antagonists" or organisms that feed on botrytis, fusarium and penicillium organisms.

Streptomyces: 

Actinovate (Streptomyces lydicus) is an EPA registered bio fungicide proven to be effective against pythium, rhizoctonia, phytophthera, sclerotinia and powdery mildew. It is compatible with Symbios.

Compost teas:

A properly brewed compost tea full of a plethora of soil fungi (not mycorrhizae) and bacteria should produce synergistic effects when Symbios is present in the soil.

Natural fertilizers:

Soluble agricultural fertilizers are high in salt and can reduce populations of beneficial soil organisms. Poultry based fertilizer and fish based fertilizers (along with others) are among those that are likely compatible with Symbios.


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## Mcgician (Dec 30, 2009)

From Dutch Master's website:

"&#65279;BENEFICIAL BACTERIA:
*Why we DO NOT Recommend the use of Beneficial Mycorrhizae (Fungi) and Bacteria in Hydroponics!*
Mycorrhizae are beneficial fungi that penetrate the roots of most plants in nature. This symbiotic relationship is beneficial in that the plant provides sugars to the fungi, and the fungi enhance nutrient uptake for the plant. There are two major groups of mycorrhizae: ectomycorrhyzae and endomychorrhizae. The 'ectos' do not actually penetrate the cells of the roots, but are found between the intercellular spaces. Ectos have been found to be able to utilize a range of organic compounds such as proteins, peptides and amino acids (1, 5, 7,). However, these fungi are restricted to coniferous tree species (gymnosperms) and Ericacious (heath/ bog) species where soil breakdown of amino acids is minimal (1, 2, 5). 


Endomycorrhizal fungi aid in water and nutrient uptake, especially phosphorus, but do not aid in mineralization of organic matter, and thus have not been found to take up organic nutrients (1-7). Unlike ectos, 'endos' invade root cortical cell walls and can form branched structures called arbuscules which are efficient sites of exchange between fungus and root cell. Endos are primarily associated with herbaceous plants (angiosperms) commonly grown in greenhouses and hydroponic systems (1-7).

*In hydroponics, there would be little value to be obtained from mycorrhizal associations in this situation.* Their value is to provide improved uptake of water and minerals from the soil / growing media. In a hydroponic setting, the plant has constant access to all the water and dissolved minerals it needs. The mycorrhizal fungi would do little to improve on a root constantly bathed in water and minerals, however may aid in nutrient uptake under plant stress and low root biomass (3, . Most hydroponically grown plants are of angiosperm origin, and since endomycorrhizae are not known to take up whole organic molecules in any situation, these fungi would not benefit in the uptake of a root based supplement product containing these substances. Many products make claims of enhanced growth and yield from beneficial microorganisms added to the nutrient solution along with organic fertilizers. This phenomenon can be attributed to the enzymatic secretions of these fungi into the solution to breakdown organic matter into its essential elements for uptake and transport to the roots (8, 9). Essentially, it is the same as adding extra fertilizer.

In soil mediums where organic fertilizers are used, the extra surface area provided by the mycorrhizal associations can act to enhance nutrient uptake, and to break down (via enzymatic secretions from the fungi) organic matter into its essential minerals useable by plants. Beneficial bacteria are useful in this situation again by breaking down organic matter and rendering it useful to plants in its simple mineral form. Organic fertilizers are slow acting and slow releasing, and these beneficial organisms are necessary in situations where no added mineral salts are present. However, there is little to be gained even in soil and soilless mediums when complete fertilizers with all essential nutrients are present. The use of Beneficial Bacteria in hydroponic systems can clog lines, filters and pumps."


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## jberry (Dec 30, 2009)

im in coco... its the perfect home for the fungi to colonize and its hydro.
my yields went up.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 30, 2009)

jberry said:


> im in coco... its the perfect home for the fungi to colonize and its hydro.
> my yields went up.


Your yields went up, eh? The fungi depend on carbohydrates from the host plant to survive. If you're changing or adding to your reservoir frequently, they can not get the nutrition they need, or it would seem.

All this stuff about humic, fulvic acids, myco, etc. is quite funny. People see what they want to see, people expect to see what they expect to see. If you use a typical potting soil, you don't need any of the snake oils the Dutch are pushing. For example, peat moss contains one of the highest counts of the humic/fulvic acids of any organics, same with compost.

UB


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## jberry (Dec 30, 2009)

Well you arent paying attention.

1. Im in a drain to waste sytem.

2. Coco already has all humic and other acids i need. (I never said that I personally added extra)

3. I am sooo sick of you UB!... Please go away!! I already lost all respect for you UB, I know you talk about things that you dont know about (and you mix it in with things u do know about), and you like to snitch on people. I want to keep my distance from dangerous rats. I would appreciate it if you would leave me alone and dont fuck with my threads. Ive also read in your posts that in addition to ratting people out, and hating on people, you dont even grow weed anymore, and you are always talking about "stoners" in a negative way. I highly doubt you even smoke weed or you would be growing.... im on to your hating ways and im getting pretty sick grumpy senior citizens that dont grow trying to talk shit to someone who has grown thousands and thousands of plants.

You are the worst person ive seen on RIU when it comes to only selecting the info that works for you and just ignoring the rest.... today was a perfect example. You admit that you havent even tested with any side by side tests, yet you keep on talking as if you actually know about certain products.... I have used and tested more products than u could even name.

I simply dont like you and I wont post on your threads if you dont post on mine.... Deal? or War?


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 31, 2009)

jberry said:


> Well you arent paying attention.
> 
> 1. Im in a drain to waste sytem.


Same thang. How are the fungi being fed? Where are they getting their carbos necessary to sustain their growth. 



> 2. Coco already has all humic and other acids i need. (I never said that I personally added extra)


No it doesn't, it's pretty much inert unlike Peat moss or compost which is loaded with humic/fulvic acids. I was growing in coco fiber when guys like you were still messin' in their drawers.



> 3. I am sooo sick of you UB!...


I imagine you are. 



> ....... and you like to snitch on people. I want to keep my distance from dangerous rats.


"Dangerous rats", hah! That is hilarious. Exactly what makes me so dangerous? This is the reason why you and I don't get along....I do not get along well with a bullshitter. Now your sinking to a new low with such ridiculous accusations. If you can't back up your statements, then it seems wise that you shouldn't be making them.



> Ive also read in your posts that in addition to ratting people out,.....


We're quite the desperate one, eh. Where in "my posts" are you talking about?

Recommend you reread your initial post. Think soil mah man. 

Carry on,
UB


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## jberry (Dec 31, 2009)

u are soooo wrong about everything u say... you know your a rat and so do I, thats all i need to write you off as worthless and dangerous. Ive seen you type the words "You have been reported" and you admit in another thread that you dont currently grow weed and havent for years, and like i said, i doubt you even smoke weed... So, Why are you on here fucking with people when you dont even grow anymore??? get a life buddy, this is a grow site.... and you dont grow.

go report someone old man, just stay the fuck away from me...


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## jberry (Dec 31, 2009)

Coco itself generates humic acid and other organic acids during decomposition and no additional would be required. Additionally, Cytokinins are requested to assist in the stress of initial innoculation as the fungus penetrates the root system.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 31, 2009)

jberry said:


> u are soooo wrong about everything u say... you know your a rat and so do I, thats all i need to write you off as worthless and dangerous. Ive seen you type the words "You have been reported"....


Report a post to a mod, ya lame brain. There is a report button at the top right of the post. Feel free to try it out.



> Cytokinins are requested to assist in the stress of initial innoculation as the fungus penetrates the root system.


Cytokinin is a hormone. What is the connection and how exacting is requesting them? What's this "stress" biz?


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## jberry (Dec 31, 2009)

i know lame brain, and i will take a pass on "trying it". If you run to the Moderaters then you would surely run to the cops... I mean its not like YOU grow, so you have nothing to fear. A rat is a rat is a rat, no matter how you look at it or what its about.

as for your questions, please stop posting in my threads and figure the shit out yourself... your the one that has been playing in coco since 1897 or whatever, so you should already know this shit.

you like to be a bully and fuck with everyone, make people feel dumb, your insulting, you talk down about "stoners", you dont even grow, and i dont like you.

obviously i cant make you leave me alone but im asking you to.... can you do that????


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 31, 2009)

Enjoy your snake oils, and keep dem vendors fat and happy!


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## jberry (Dec 31, 2009)

Thank you ! 

Enjoy your computer, since u dont grow!

Goodbye, Hope I dont see ya around.


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## s.c.mtn.hillbilly (Jan 1, 2010)

this thread sure took a bad turn! in my view; hydro is outta' touch with nature, and out of balance. processed nutes lack....the microsphere needs the least tainted ingredients in order to function as a web. I love coco; but it has its place: no more than 30% of your soil. its main functin is aeration. water retention is just a bonus. myco-, coco, and joe's nutes is NOT a microsphere! the above, with real dirt, guanos, fire ash, kelp meal, azomite, humic shale, blood meal, fish bone meal, and BIODYNAMIC COMPOST....now THAT's a start......... a major human factor though is :how anal and squeamish are you? are you a nitpicking bitch that shouldn't be in the biz in the 1st. place? or can you handle a brown recluse crawling across your face without freakin' out? my op is ALL about the microsphere- that means BUGS... lotsa' bugs! I do my best to stay the hell outta' the way. what you spray is what you smoke! don't gimme' none of that rinsed off crap! it's inside! I have an army of spiders and insects that eat WELL. ZERO bug problems-because I DON'T have a problem with them! and that's INDOOR. if you have diseases and bug damage, chances are, you don't have the full symbiosis goin' on. nature has taken aeons to perfect this web; man's arrogance has rendered vast sections of this country inert...and now he's brought it indoors. I grow sukiyaki samurais, not crack whores!


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## jberry (Jan 1, 2010)

im okay with the turns it took... and i like a good crack whore.

what is joes nutes? and are you asking me if i am a bitch? im a little confused ?

anyhow, coco works very well for me and im not asking you to use it. No disrespect meant.


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## jberry (Jan 1, 2010)

It didnt take long for the fungus to infest the roots of these seeds. The fungus will continue to propagate and infest as the root system develops.








[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mycorrhizal application is easy and requires no special equipment. The goal is to create physical contact between the mycorrhizal inoculant and the plant root. Mycorrhizal inoculant can be sprinkled onto roots during transplanting, worked into seed beds, blended into potting soil, "watered in" via existing irrigation systems, applied as a root dip gel or probed into the root zone of existing plants. The type of application depends upon the conditions and needs of the applicator.

[/FONT]Mix it in at the roots and try to make direct root contact to make the infection earlier and stronger.


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## Sakca (Jan 1, 2010)

jberry said:


> u are soooo wrong about everything u say... you know your a rat and so do I, thats all i need to write you off as worthless and dangerous. Ive seen you type the words "You have been reported" and you admit in another thread that you dont currently grow weed and havent for years, and like i said, i doubt you even smoke weed... So, Why are you on here fucking with people when you dont even grow anymore??? get a life buddy, this is a grow site.... and you dont grow.
> 
> go report someone old man, just stay the fuck away from me...


I think that old man part made me shit my pants,  That dudes' a Jesus around here! And you totally humiliate his perception just because you're too lazy to emphasize on his green thumb. Way to be killing all the free air. Lawl!


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## grnTOMATOS (Feb 26, 2010)

jberry said:


> well sorry to bum you out, but thats how i feel.





jberry said:


> well sorry to bum you out, but thats how i feel.


J.Berry I saw that you were using MYKOS - mentioned earlier in thread. I haven't tried it yet, but I met some reps from the company the other night in Marin at a showcase at the Sloat Garden Center. They seemed highly-knowledgeable and gave me an info packet with loads of info. I thought I'd post the company story that they provided and see what others thought. 

Good stuff it sounds like?

RTI: Nature-Inspired, Science-Driven 

Deforestation
According to the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), deforestation may account for up to a third of human-generated carbon dioxide emissions.[1] One company has taken up the call of restoring our forests - Reforestation Technologies International. RTIs fertilizers have helped establish over a quarter billion seedlings, combating the negative effects of global deforestation. 

Polluting Fertilizers
While designing highly effective and environmentally-friendly plant food for forest restoration has been a step in the right direction, RTI has been inspired to find other ways to improve horticultural aids that can maximize plant and environmental health. Farmers and home gardeners commonly use fertilizers to ensure that plants receive the right levels of vitamins and minerals. Unfortunately, average commercial fertilizers are creating a mess of problems. The fertilizer life-cycle accounts for 2 to 3% of global greenhouse gas emissions.[3] This is non-trivial to be sure, especially considering that fertilizer manufacturing produces methane - a greenhouse gas 20x more harmful than carbon dioxide.[4] 

In addition to releasing greenhouse gases while being manufactured, fertilizer run-off is damaging our oceans and lakes. Losing 85-95% of a fertilizer is both highly inefficient for the grower and damaging to the environment, yet almost all fertilizers have such poorly designed nutrient-delivery systems. Only about 10% of conventional fertilizer actually helps plants grow, the rest is washed through the soil and eventually filters into waterways. There, the fertilizer does what it is supposed to do  it helps plants grow. Unfortunately, that leads to algae colonies blooming across oceans and lakes, killing fish and marine mammals by removing oxygen from the water. RTI has designed organic fertilizers that are wrapped in a biodegradable coating which lose less than 1% of nitrogen to run-off [2]. Instead of contaminating rivers, streams, and oceans, RTI fertilizers are slowly released to plants to provide 100% nutrient support.

Guided by Nature
Simply creating a better fertilizer was never RTI's goal. Instead RTI is inspired by biomimicry - researching soil and plant ecology to understand how a nature-designed system maximizes yield without creating negative side-effects. Rather than relying on heavy water and fertilization, RTI has sought to understand how plants in natural settings thrive without human cultivation.These investigations have led RTI's research team to the complex web of interrelated soil microorganisms that sustain plants through droughts, make soil and air nutrients available to plants, and protect their hosts from invaders.

One of the most important of these organisms is mycorrhizae, a soil fungus that is the star quarterback of the soil microbe team. Plants have been depending on mycorrhizae for a long time. In fact, this relationship has been developing over the last 450 million years! Evidence indicates plants may even never have left the water 450 million years ago without the assistance of mycorrhizae.[5]

So how does mycorrhiza work? Under the ground, microscopic fungal filaments attach to a plant's roots and then stretch outwards into the soil, creating a huge extended roots network. These fungal fibers are 60x skinnier than plant roots and stretch up to 100x further into the soil, and they can optimize nutrient collection far better than the plant can by itself. In addition to being skinny enough to reach into tiny crevices, mycorrhizae more efficiently produces the special enzymes needed to dissolve locked-up nutrients, such as phosphorus, resulting in a far greater collection of vitamins and minerals. Finally, mycorrhizae help strengthen the plant and protect it from invaders such as white root rot and other soil diseases. The fungal filaments which reach out and mine the soil, called hyphae, actually release natural disease-suppressing phenols.

After studying the benefits of mycorrhizae to plants, RTI paired with world-renowned research scientists in Brazil and the United States such as Dr. Robert Linderman to select the species of mycorrhizae that most effectively increased plant health. From this collaboration came Mykos, a mycorrhizal product which has surpassed our wildest hopes. The last 4 World Record Largest Pumpkins were all grown using Mykos! This is a bigger deal than it may first appear (if you'll pardon the pun), as pumpkins grow larger than any other fruit or vegetable. Mykos' benefits hardly stop with pumpkins, though. RTI's mycorrhizae was also used to grow the World's Second Largest Tomato (Nick Harp), and the World's Largest Squash (John Vincent & Brian McGill). In addition to growing larger plants, Mykos grows healthier plants that are more delicious and nutritious.

After seeing Mykos transform so many farms and gardens, RTI has sought to create more products that can help create the perfect soil environment for your plants. Recently, RTI cultivated another soil microbe called Azospirillum brasilense. We just call it Azos. Plants need nitrogen to be lush and healthy. The good news? The atmosphere is almost 80% nitrogen. The bad news? Plants are unable to absorb nitrogen directly from the air. Here is where Azos comes in. This tiny bacterium comes from the Amazon rainforest, where plants use it to convert atmospheric nitrogen into plant nitrogen. In addition, Azos releases Indole-3-Acetic-Acid (IAA), a hormone that naturally stimulates plant growth. [7] The results of using Azos can be seen in places such as the City of Indian Wells, CA, where the use of Azos in conjunction with the symbiotic help of Mykos, has saved the city $38,000 in fertilizer and 6.5 million gallons of water over the last 18 months. That doesnt include the amount saved on labor-costs of not having to re-fertilize. As the city reaches the two-year benchmark of utilizing RTI products, they have yet to find the need to re-fertilize and their grasses look greener and more vibrant than they ever have. 

This last year, RTI discovered the key to naturally utilizing one of natures greatest mysteries  photosynthesis. Photosynthesis, the process of converting light energy to chemical energy and storing it in the bonds of sugar, has long since its discovery been used to significantly increase plant growth. [8] Until recently, manipulating levels of carbon dioxide was the only efficient method of increasing photosynthesis in crop production. RTI sought to find a natural alternative to CO2 tanks and burners, one that increased photosynthesis while leaving plants natural atmospheric state unaltered. Their answer? CO2, a revolutionary calcium carbonate foliar spray. 

CO2 is unique in that its calcium carbonate source is naturally precipitated so finely that it is able to be absorbed through the stomata of plant leaves. Once inside the cell wall, it breaks off into usable calcium and usable carbon dioxide, effectively increases photosynthesis rates by up to 200%, reaching the optimal level that plants desire/require, and ending the need for environmentally-damaging tanks and burners altogether. CO2s unique delivery system requires that users only need to apply it on a bi-monthly basis, saving enormous amounts of time, labor, and money compared to conventional means. In addition, CO2 delivers another crucial benefit  water retention. Due to CO2s method of delivery, via the intercellular space, the stomata of plant leaves no longer need to stay open in an attempt to fixate carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, allowing for significant levels of transpiration (the evaporation of water into the atmosphere from the leaves and stems of plants), but they can now remain closed, effectively increasing the water retention capabilities of plants by up to 80%! [9]

Over the last 15 years this California-based company has shown time and again that when biological mimesis combines with green engineering, we can make products that take better care of our plants and better care of the planet. 

Mykos and Azos are available for order at Reforestation Technologies International's website at http://www.reforest.com/products/xtreme-gardening or by phone at 1-800-RTI-GROW (1-800-784-4769).

1) http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/wg1/ar4-wg1-chapter7.pdf
2) Journal of the Soil Science Society of America, 2003
3) http://www.fertilizer.org/content/download/22932/328667/version/1/file/2009_ifa_climate_change.pdf
4) http://epa.gov/methane/reports/2001update.pdf
5) Simon, L., Bousquet, J., Levesque, C., Lalonde, M. (1993). "Origin and diversification of endomycorrhizal fungi and coincidence with vascular land plants". Nature 363: 6769.
6) Trappe, J.M. (1987) Phylogenetic and ecologic aspects of mycotrophy in the angiosperms from an evolutionary standpoint. Ecophysiology of VA Mycorrhizal Plants, G.R. Safir (EDS), CRC Press, Florida
7) http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=20791104
 http://biology.clc.uc.edu/Courses/Bio104/photosyn.htm
9) http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/hyd/trsp.rxml


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## grnTOMATOS (Feb 26, 2010)

Wow this thread has turned bad. Here's some info that may help. It's a link to an article done on the nation's top grower of mycorrhizae

www.Reforest.com/company


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## RogueReefer (Feb 26, 2010)

I just bought some Rick's Monster Grow Mix. Has anyone tried his producy B4? Just inocculated my med grow with it 4 days ago and I guess they look like they took off a bit more the last day and a half, lol...could just be me. Any thoughts?


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## jberry (Feb 26, 2010)

grnTOMATOS said:


> Wow this thread has turned bad. Here's some info that may help. It's a link to an article done on the nation's top grower of mycorrhizae
> 
> www.Reforest.com/company



yeah, its a real shame, but there is some good info if you can get past the fact that i told off Jesus himself, lol.


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## RogueReefer (Feb 26, 2010)

I am gonna sribe to yas thread, thanks for the tutorial, lol.


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## jberry (Feb 26, 2010)

Rick's Monster Mix Pic... vvvvvv




jberry said:


> It didnt take long for the fungus to infest the roots of these seeds. The fungus will continue to propagate and infest as the root system develops.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Wetdog (Feb 27, 2010)

RogueReefer said:


> I just bought some Rick's Monster Grow Mix. Has anyone tried his producy B4? Just inocculated my med grow with it 4 days ago and I guess they look like they took off a bit more the last day and a half, lol...could just be me. Any thoughts?


It's just you.

They WILL take off, but not in 4 days time.

Some molasses will help those beasties multiply. 1tsp-1tbl/gallon of water/week will feed them nicely.

Wet


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## jberry (Feb 27, 2010)




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## i81two (Feb 28, 2010)

Great thread. And nothing like a good ole fist fight. 

Back to topic though. I am kind of a noob that has been doing more research than ones brain can handle. A few weeks ago i got into a serious read about all the mycos and Nitrosomons and Nitro bacteria and steptomyces.

I decided to buy GH Sub Culture-M (mycorrhizal root innoculant) for my drip system rez.

I think it may be helping my roots. But it sure is nasty to clean from ur rez at changing time.

The directions say to add directly to rez water. But it doesnt seem to mix in that well.

My question is. Can i or should i mix it with water first then pour into rez. 

Anybody using this stuff ? And is this the stuff that this thread is about?


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## jberry (Feb 28, 2010)

i81two said:


> Great thread. And nothing like a good ole fist fight.
> 
> Back to topic though. I am kind of a noob that has been doing more research than ones brain can handle. A few weeks ago i got into a serious read about all the mycos and Nitrosomons and Nitro bacteria and steptomyces.
> 
> ...


yes, the thread is about mycorrhizae...

and you are right about it not mixing well, when a myco product is designed for hydroponics or to be used in a irrigation system then it has likely been milled so it wont clog your nozzles and such. Milling the mycorrhizae can actually cut spores and make the medium less infective although some do remain unscathed. Spores are actually pretty big critters in the micro world. The mycos need to attach them selves to the root structure to be beneficial, so applying them from the top isnt exactly ideal in my opinion, not to mention they may never even get sucked up by the pump in your rez! The majority of it seems to settle on the bottom and stay there for the most part.

if possible i would recommend using a different type of myco product that has a high endo spore count and can be applied directly to the roots during transplant... the earlier you can get the mycos to infest the roots the better... I usually dip the roots directly in my mycorrhizae spores when planting my clones and again when i pot up. you may also benefit from amending some into the medium.

part of deciding which product to use and how much it will benefit you is going to be based on the type of system you use to grow, (hydro, soil, ect.,ect.)

i have never used that GH myco product before and know nothing about it, but perhaps you can use it still but apply it to the roots not the rez? ...( i dont know what type of system your running but obvoiusly it wouldnt be possible with certain hydro systems)


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## i81two (Feb 28, 2010)

I am running a hydro drip with GH 3 part. 
So if i mixed up a proper ratio and did a drench with every rez change that would be a benefit to the roots ?

Can you recommend a myco with the high endo spore count ? 

Do you think i can dip my transplants into my inoculate with out worry ?

Do you know of a product that contains the things i mention earlier ?

I really appreciate your opinion.


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## wyteboi (Mar 1, 2010)

jberry said:


>


So berry you are saying that fuzz is the actual endo doing its thing? I was under the impresion that we could not see with the naked eye , but maybe with that much all in one spot it easier to see? 
Thanks
Those are very pretty roots! I'll have to try that myself.


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## jberry (Mar 1, 2010)

yeah, people try to look for the myco colonies in their soil, but thats like digging through the soil looking for tiny spiderwebs...


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## Shrubs First (Mar 1, 2010)

Uncle Ben said:


> Same thang. How are the fungi being fed? Where are they getting their carbos necessary to sustain their growth.
> 
> No it doesn't, it's pretty much inert unlike Peat moss or compost which is loaded with humic/fulvic acids. I was growing in coco fiber when guys like you were still messin' in their drawers.
> 
> ...


Ben I too am in 100% canna coco and have experienced great results using
Great White Premium Myco, I am using a Drain to Waste system. Plants have
been much healthier. I have no problem using Humboldt Honey ES in my
D/W coco Hydro system, so I know my Myco's are receiving plenty of Carbs.


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## Shrubs First (Mar 1, 2010)

I dont do the Hydro honey, i go for the thick nasty stuff 

And I use a shit ton of it, 20 mL per gallon in veg.


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## wyteboi (Mar 3, 2010)

jberry said:


> yeah, people try to look for the myco colonies in their soil, but thats like digging through the soil looking for tiny spiderwebs...


Well i know you cant see the shit in the soil , but i was under the impression that its too little to see period ? (w/naked eye) 

GREAT THREAD BERRY!


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## i81two (Mar 3, 2010)

Do you think that when i used an Azamax drench to combat a small fungus gnat prob that it would kill the myco ?


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## jberry (Mar 3, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> Well i know you cant see the shit in the soil , but i was under the impression that its too little to see period ? (w/naked eye)
> 
> GREAT THREAD BERRY!


yea but you can see them once they form colonies and that will actually take place fairly quickly in the right environment.


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## Shrubs First (Mar 3, 2010)

i81two said:


> Do you think that when i used an Azamax drench to combat a small fungus gnat prob that it would kill the myco ?


perfectly safe.


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## jberry (Mar 3, 2010)

i81two said:


> Do you think that when i used an Azamax drench to combat a small fungus gnat prob that it would kill the myco ?


it seems like it would but idk for sure.

if your gnat problem is small then try letting the medium dry a bit more than usual and a lot of them will die off... OR mix some azamax in a spray bottle and spray the sufrace rather than doing the drench... if you spray just the surface then it wont effect the myco as much and it will still kill most of the fungi gnats larvae since the live on the mainly the surface of the medium.

try to avoid the drench if you can


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## jberry (Mar 3, 2010)

Shrubs First said:


> perfectly safe.


good to know... how does it kill other fungus but not the myco?


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## Shrubs First (Mar 3, 2010)

jberry said:


> good to know... how does it kill other fungus but not the myco?


I've never known it to be used against fungus... He asked about fungus GNATS
AzaMax does not use hard chemical solvents and uses food grade formulation ingredients...

Its an antifeedant and insect growth regulator and controls pests through
starvation and growth disruption. It controls spider mites, thrips,
fungus gnats, aphids, whiteflies, leaf miners, worms, beetles, leafhoppers, scales, 
mealy bugs, nematodes and other soil borne pests.


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## jberry (Mar 3, 2010)

Well I know most people think its just for pests but since Azamax is made from Neem Oil... specifically one, potent, bio-compound found in Neem Oil_, _I figured it may prevent the myco from flourishing.

*Neem Oil *is an effective fungicide for the prevention and control of various fungal diseases including powdery mildew, black spot, downy mildew, anthracnose, rust, leaf spot, botrytis, needle rust, scab and flower, twig, tip blight, and alternaria.


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## Shrubs First (Mar 3, 2010)

jberry said:


> *Neem Oil *is an effective fungicide for the prevention and control of various fungal diseases including powdery mildew, black spot, downy mildew, anthracnose, rust, leaf spot, botrytis, needle rust, scab and flower, twig, tip blight, and alternaria.


I don't see mycorrhizae in there .....I use azamax as a feedant religiously...







Any more questions? Or do you have some experience that says otherwise? Because GH
will tell you their product is 100% OMRI certified and good to use with microbiologicals.


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## jberry (Mar 3, 2010)

yea, a couple more...
why do you do that? 
are you saying its the azamax that is making the roots pop threw the smart pot?


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## Shrubs First (Mar 3, 2010)

jberry said:


> yea, a couple more...
> why do you do that?
> are you saying its the azamax that is making the roots pop threw the smart pot?


Not at all, it is the mycorrhizae and the Rhizotonic which is making my roots do
this. This is showing that the Azamax if anything is not hurting the root and Myco
development. I use Azamax as a preventative against pests. Haven't had any in
years because of it.


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## jberry (Mar 3, 2010)

right on... well you may be right about it not hurting/preventing mycorrhiza and beneficial bacteria because neem oil is pretty amazing stuff... example: it kills harmful pests but doesnt harm the beneficial pests! -maybe just maybe the same goes for harmful vs. beneficial fungi/bacteria? But honestly, regardless of how healthy your plant looks, it would be very hard for you to determine if the azamax was effecting your mycos in some ill way... on the other hand it is totally possible that the azamax does not hurt them at all as you are saying.

But I know that Neem Oil is Antifungal and Antibacterial (able to destroys or inhibit the growth of bacteria) so I think its worth taking that into consideration.


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## wyteboi (Mar 4, 2010)

Shrubs First said:


> Not at all, it is the mycorrhizae and the Rhizotonic which is making my roots do
> this. This is showing that the Azamax if anything is not hurting the root and Myco
> development. I use Azamax as a preventative against pests. Haven't had any in
> years because of it.


How would you possibly *know *this? How do you know you even have myco in there , thats alive? That close up is a lil too close to say its working. 
Are you positive that the roots would not be bigger without the neem? 
fungus is fungus. Myco is not special.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 4, 2010)

This thread has some good info on mycco fungi's. 

There is just one very simple piece of information missing. Mycco fungi is not a rare thing. The companies make you think you need to purchase it.... you don't. If you have a healthy soil set up and a healthy plant..... they will come ... in droves. Even sterile soil will fill up with mycco fungi.

So yes, all the technical benefits to mycco is true enough..... the "fudge" is that you need to purchase some....you don't. You will get all you need absolutely free of charge. It's what they do.....24/7.


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## wyteboi (Mar 4, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> This thread has some good info on mycco fungi's.
> 
> There is just one very simple piece of information missing. Mycco fungi is not a rare thing. The companies make you think you need to purchase it.... you don't. If you have a healthy soil set up and a healthy plant..... they will come ... in droves. Even sterile soil will fill up with mycco fungi.
> 
> So yes, all the technical benefits to mycco is true enough..... the "fudge" is that you need to purchase some....you don't. You will get all you need absolutely free of charge. It's what they do.....24/7.


well i guess we agree on ONE thing


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## CrackerJax (Mar 4, 2010)

Well, that's something! 

The fungi scam is being pushed behind the scenes by Bush/Cheney.


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## i81two (Mar 4, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> This thread has some good info on mycco fungi's.
> 
> There is just one very simple piece of information missing. Mycco fungi is not a rare thing. The companies make you think you need to purchase it.... you don't. If you have a healthy soil set up and a healthy plant..... they will come ... in droves. Even sterile soil will fill up with mycco fungi.
> 
> So yes, all the technical benefits to mycco is true enough..... the "fudge" is that you need to purchase some....you don't. You will get all you need absolutely free of charge. It's what they do.....24/7.


 
Does the same apply to hydro ?


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## jberry (Mar 4, 2010)

I know what your saying but world record setting giant vegetable growers would disagree, they claim that raising their spore count is the reason they are able to push the limits... Have you done any controlled tests? I have and the difference between treated and untreated is really obvious... but im in coco not soil.


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## jberry (Mar 4, 2010)

more beneficial soil microbe info....

http://www.maximumyield.com/article_sh_db.php?articleID=516&yearVar=2009&issueVar=December


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## jberry (Mar 4, 2010)

*Sustaining &#8216;Biomass&#8217; (Bacteria numbers)*​ The food source for friendly bacteria is sugars and carbons. Create an environment that is rich in these components and you will create a dynamic environment for friendly bacteria.​ *
Fulvic Acid*​ Where friendly bacteria are concerned humates (e.g. humic acid and fulvic acid) are an extremely effective food source. Humates are carbons &#8211; elements of ancient compost that formed over millions of years through the interaction of organic material and microbial action &#8211; and, therefore, their presence (along with other factors) in the growing system will ensure a rich environment in which friendly bacteria numbers will explode.​ Fulvic acid is the most important humate bio-extract where hydroponics is concerned. It is water soluble and readily available for plant uptake.​ Other than creating a dynamic environment for friendly bacteria, fulvic acid aids greatly in nutrient uptake and translocation within the plant. For this reason it should always be used in conjunction with a balanced nutritional program.​ 
*Fulvic Acid Benefits: *​ 

Enhances cell growth
Increases nutrient uptake
Increases nutrient transportation
Increases silica absorption
Stimulates plant immune system
Creates a dynamic environment for friendly bacteria
 *Humic Acid*​ Humic acid is less suitable for hydroponic systems. However, humic acid is suitable for soil growing and its use in soils will prove beneficial for rhizosphere microbial interaction and nutrient uptake. ​ *
Sugars*​ Other than humates (i.e. carbons) sugars are also the food source for friendly bacteria. Because of this, products containing molasses (e.g. some organic stimulants) and other sugars can be beneficial in the growing system.​ *
Cautions when using Friendly Bacteria *​ If you are adding friendlies to chlorinated water supplies (i.e. mains water), there is every chance (depending on the level of chlorine) that the chlorine is killing a good many of the beneficial microorganisms. Ideally you will have a secondary holding tank where you can leave your tap water exposed to air for 24 hours prior to it going into your system. This will ensure the water is chlorine free (the chlorine dissipates) by the time you introduce the friendlies.​ On this note, sterilising agents (e.g. monochloramine or hydrogen peroxide) should never be used in conjunction with friendly bacteria.​


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## Shrubs First (Mar 4, 2010)

wyteboi said:


> How would you possibly *know *this? How do you know you even have myco in there , thats alive? That close up is a lil too close to say its working.
> Are you positive that the roots would not be bigger without the neem?
> fungus is fungus. Myco is not special.


Look at the size of my plants in comparison to root growth, my clones were busting
through the 3 gallon smart pots after a week and a half of veg. This is the first time
that has happened for me, this is the first grow I'm using Great White P.M., and 
Rhizotonic. I've always used Azamax. I've always had healthy roots, but this is new
for me... So this is special.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 4, 2010)

i81two said:


> Does the same apply to hydro ?


Is hydro soil based?

Uhhh, no. Soil based growing is the dominant market however.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 4, 2010)

This is a fencepost issue. 

Does the fungi occur naturally? You bet....just try and keep your soil fungi free....impossible to do.

So let's say you do introduce ur own fungi..... but maybe the native fungi would have done a better job?! They can't however, because they have been beaten to the punch.... and it cost you $$$ to do it. 

If you build a good soil substrate from the start (compost especially).... you don't need to add much of anything else.


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## Shrubs First (Mar 4, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> This is a fencepost issue.
> 
> Does the fungi occur naturally? You bet....just try and keep your soil fungi free....impossible to do.
> 
> ...


H202 can keep it sterile. Anyways, obviously what you're saying is true, but you
are just preaching to the choir, no duh if you make a composted dream soil you
don't neeed to add anything, including nutrients, but if you start in sayyyy, Fox
Farm, or coco, you have to supplement.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 4, 2010)

I hardly think I'm preaching to the choir....  If only that were true.

One of the most common maladies I see here is NUTE BURN. Over and over again. In the misplaced thought of pushing the plant as hard as it can stand to improve yields (perceived), ppl turn their substrates into nutrient junkyards. Then they scream online when it starts to implode....

Growing is like building a house. It's all in the foundation. It's all about patience.


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## jberry (Mar 4, 2010)

I agree that soil growers are going to have a decent amount of fungi on their own, (especially if using a good compost, no argument there) but what is nice about inoculating is that you can isolate certain species of mycorrizae that have been shown to be most beneficial, that way you know your medium contains the exact species you are looking for in high amounts... Another benefit is that you can apply the fungi directly to the root structure in high amounts which speeds up the initial infestation process...The length of time it takes for the infestation to take place seems to be a topic of concern for a short annual crop like mj... Waiting for the colonies to build up and then infest the roots may indeed take a little time if you just are using a bag of sterilized potting soil (or at least it would seem) 

Adding the myco can be very cheap... if you apply it directly to the roots during transplants it doesnt use much material... and I get mine for around $8.00 a pound.

please dont take this as confrontational, im not looking to make more enemies lol  and your points are valid, I'm just sharing my 2 cents, and beneficial bacteria can be a great addition for people like me who are growing in coco, ... thats why i like coco because you get some of the benefits of both hydro and soil.



CrackerJax said:


> This is a fencepost issue.
> 
> Does the fungi occur naturally? You bet....just try and keep your soil fungi free....impossible to do.
> 
> ...


----------



## Shrubs First (Mar 4, 2010)

They flower in 8 weeks, it's a short season plant, you don't need
to draw it all out, I use inert coco and do just fine with that as my 
foundation.


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## CrackerJax (Mar 4, 2010)

I do think there may be a place in the AG market for fungi. I could see a farmer with worn out soil replenishing his fields with it.

But like shrubs said sort of.... weed is a short grow and ppl almost always use great soil compared to what a farmer has to work with.


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## Wetdog (Mar 4, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> I hardly think I'm preaching to the choir....  If only that were true.
> 
> One of the most common maladies I see here is NUTE BURN. Over and over again. In the misplaced thought of pushing the plant as hard as it can stand to improve yields (perceived), ppl turn their substrates into nutrient junkyards. Then they scream online when it starts to implode....
> 
> Growing is like building a house. It's all in the foundation. It's all about patience.


Then, half of those who scream online go "Nute burn or deficiency?" and before getting a good answer, decide, of course, it's a deficiency and dump something else on top of a burned plant.

Patience? Shit! It strikes me as a big case of instant gratification with ADD thrown in for good measure.

Wet


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## CrackerJax (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm an outdoor grower and to me it is always amusing to see how much ppl dwell on their plants. I do tend to mine, but sparingly. A nudge here, a nudge there.....add water, and the sun does the rest ... of course.


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## okcomputer42 (Nov 23, 2010)

Excellent article. Thank you for posting this.

Peace and love,
OK


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## legallyflying (Nov 23, 2010)

CrackerJax said:


> This thread has some good info on mycco fungi's.
> 
> There is just one very simple piece of information missing. Mycco fungi is not a rare thing. The companies make you think you need to purchase it.... you don't. If you have a healthy soil set up and a healthy plant..... they will come ... in droves. Even sterile soil will fill up with mycco fungi.
> 
> ...


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## purrrrple (Nov 28, 2010)

JBer do I need to add anything to H&G to feed the Great White (Carboload, Mollases, Heavy weight etc)? I'm running the full House & Garden line in coco and in soil w/ a tiny bit of cal-max. 

Also, (sorry for straying off topic) do I need to add any humic/fulvic acids to H&G? Should I add some sort of silica also?


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## madcowjelly (Nov 29, 2010)

should check out what dutch masters say about fungi in hydro http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/?language=english&page=growers_guide&topic=beneficial_bacteria


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## supremegrowers (Aug 15, 2011)

Hi I was jsut enjoying the posts and appreciate all the good information. I am a commercial grower of 18 acre palm tree and bamboo farm and also a med growers. I have to tell that ther are many aspects of commercial agriculture that inoculate with mycorrhize and absolutely rely on it to increase their plants ability to resist stress and look good at retail. For example those Christmas Pointsettas are all given Mycorrhizae when they are plugs. And the commercial sod industry can use up to 10 pounds of commercial grade mycorrhizae per acre of production sod. My point is that these business would prefer to not spend the money on all that mycorrhizae and I am sure that the only reason they do it is because it works! THe christmas pointsetta growers need to speed up production to get there blooms to market by thanksgiving so they use mycorrhizae. THe sod grower knows the facts and science, The sod and grass he grows is totally mycorrhizal dependent. No Mycorrhizae means no sod for him. There is so much gimmick and bs out htere regarding mycorrhizae. here is my take on it. Find a high quality brand that you see works. dont use too much either. a good soluble mycorrhizae like my supreme growers Myco Blast can be used by the gram. 1 gram contains over 40,000 fungal units and can be used to inoculate hundreds of seeds or plugs or clones. dilute 1 gram in 1 liter of water and drench small plants. this is way better than dumping ounces of it onto soil where there are no roots. Mycorrhizae must make direct contact with plants roots to begin working and spreading. it will grow and spread but the more you get on there in the beginning of a plants life cycle the better.


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## sonar (Mar 24, 2012)

Great article. Bumping this to the top.


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## Rrog (Mar 24, 2012)

legallyflying said:


> CrackerJax said:
> 
> 
> > This thread has some good info on mycco fungi's.
> ...


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## wyteboi (Mar 26, 2012)

supremegrowers said:


> THe sod grower knows the facts and science, The sod and grass he grows is totally mycorrhizal dependent. No Mycorrhizae means no sod for him. There is so much gimmick and bs out htere regarding mycorrhizae.


if the sod grower knew anything about growing sod , he would be buying food to feed the danm grass instead of myco. if his sod really "relies" on myco just to survive then he has a serious prob. 

there are many benefits to myco , but the main one is making the roots bigger to be able to find food farther away. If your plants or grass is straving to the point where it needs the myco to find food , then somebody is growing in the wrong place an not feeding.

Bottom line: myco is great , but it cant grow your plant for you. (sod is a plant too)



take your bullshit info and sales pitch elsewhere. as long as i am here you aint gonna sell shit without PROPER info on whatever your selling. 



soil


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## cannawizard (Mar 28, 2012)

read dr. inghams books about mycos; save your hard earned money spent on all these (instant mycos applications).. some dont even help, tho there are some products which do.. 

cheer$


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## wyteboi (Mar 28, 2012)

cannawizard said:


> read dr. inghams books about mycos; save your hard earned money spent on all these (instant mycos applications).. some dont even help, tho there are some products which do..
> 
> cheer$


yes the doc breaks it all the way down. she (i think) has studied teas, soil and myco to the fullest. all of her reads are great and very experienced. in fact she is a legend in the dirt world. I believe her info is the first i read about myco a few years ago. 

Mycorrhizae fact: myco cant even survive if there is plenty of food in your soil. 




soil


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## Rrog (Mar 28, 2012)

wyteboi said:


> Mycorrhizae fact: myco cant even survive if there is plenty of food in your soil.


High Phosphorus can limit some Fungus. Similar point is that much of the beneficial organisms don't start growing until they detect root exudates. That's why I have the clover going. Fixes Nitrogen and keeps the microlife going while waiting for my next seedling. 

If you get this going and have compost, EWC, etc., you are looking at not only the purest organic, but the cheapest way to grow. Re-use your soil by amendment


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## MedicalGuy (Sep 30, 2013)

What do you guys think about Myco Gro? http://www.fungi.com/product-detail/product/mycogrow-soluble-1-lb.html?
I was thinking about innoculating my AACT, (compost tea) with a pinch of this. Think that is too much? 
My recipe for flowering tea is:
1tablespoon all natural molasses 
20 drops CaMg+ By general organiocs, or cmparable liquid mineral supplement
1 tabespoon dry, all organic, all purpose fertilizer (with N-P-K ratios close to 5-5-5
1 tablespoon kelp meal
1teaspoon dry high nitrogen bat/bird guano (with npk ratios close to 12-8-2)
1teaspoon dry high phosphorous bat/bird guano (with npk ratios close to 0-5-0 or 1-10-0)
1teaspoon liquid fish fertilizer (with N-P-K ratios close to5-1-1 or 3-3-0.3
1/4 cup Big Bloom by fox farm
BUBBLE THIS FOR 24 HOURS THAN ADD
1/2 to 1 cup fresh compost or earthworm castings
BUBBLE FOR AN ADDITIONAL 24 HOURS

and my veg tea is:
1tablespoon all natural molasses
1tablespoon kelp meal
1tablespoon alfalfa meal
1tablespoon dry all purpose fertilizer
2teaspoons liquid fish fertilizer
2teaspoons dry-high n bird or bat guano
1teaspoon dry soluble kelp or seaweed
BUBBLE FOR 24 HOURS THEN ADD
1cup of fresh earthworm castings or fresh healthy compost
1/4 cup composted steer( or composted barnyard)manure
BUBBLE FOR AN ADDITIONAL 24HOURS

any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## cannawizard (Sep 30, 2013)

MedicalGuy said:


> What do you guys think about Myco Gro? http://www.fungi.com/product-detail/product/mycogrow-soluble-1-lb.html?
> I was thinking about innoculating my AACT, (compost tea) with a pinch of this. Think that is too much?
> My recipe for flowering tea is:
> 1tablespoon all natural molasses
> ...


Only thing I could add is make sure your brewing above 85f, "meals" ingredients get "used" properly in hotter brew conditions~ I'd brew for longer too, maybe try 30+hrs 

#cheer$

btw, it's cool to add more bennies-- just don't over do it


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## MedicalGuy (Oct 1, 2013)

cannawizard said:


> Only thing I could add is make sure your brewing above 85f, "meals" ingredients get "used" properly in hotter brew conditions~ I'd brew for longer too, maybe try 30+hrs
> 
> #cheer$
> 
> btw, it's cool to add more bennies-- just don't over do it


Thanks dude!
After a nasty battle with root aphids in my hydro system I decided to throw it all in the garbage! After a good cleaning I decided to go organic as the diverse micro-population will protect me from another attack. I am enjoying it so far but I miss my eye-popping yields. I am trying the True Living Organics method to see if the yields improve (I suspect they will).

There is much to learn. It is very exiting.


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## woodsmantoker (Oct 9, 2013)

OP, Your credentials lack merit my friend. Not everyone here in "advanced" are here educating but rather most are here learning. Your understanding of micro biology and organic chemistry show in your comments and "explanations" however, maybe not so much to the majority here.. Do understand please, that no one is attacking you, including UB. Folks will however, attack the notion that what you state is correct, if it is not. That is the nature of an open educational forum. Simply put, UB could very well have educated you in sciences he is well versed in and does have credentials to support. No one has reported anything here that I am aware of, though I have felt compelled to mention what I have said.*I won't go into it but many things you have stated are vastly incorrect and stand easily corrected. I am a wildlife biology / environmental science major and am a "newbie" to organic chemistry. My credentials give no merit to being called "professional" or "expert" especially in the world of botany, but UB is another story. Have fun with your thread and I assure you we mods give you a wide birth ti do your thing, but if you have questions about your understanding of how various things work pertaining to growing anything, I suggest asking UB. Though you may want to start with an apology. Criticism is a tool that educated individuals use to better themselves, and debate is held amongst the most brilliant minds and is welcomed.*Be an open book my friend, there's always something to learn despite how well educated you may be.*Woodsmantoker~


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## wyteboi (Oct 9, 2013)

MedicalGuy said:


> What do you guys think about Myco Gro? http://www.fungi.com/product-detail/product/mycogrow-soluble-1-lb.html?
> I was thinking about innoculating my AACT, (compost tea) with a pinch of this. Think that is too much?
> My recipe for flowering tea is:
> 1tablespoon all natural molasses
> ...


how much water with all that food ?

i would add the compost and/or castings right away to get the microbes started now. i dont understand brewing the food without all the organizms in the ewc/compost right away? please give me some info if im wrong.






soil


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## notballin (Oct 9, 2013)

jberry said:


> It didnt take long for the fungus to infest the roots of these seeds. The fungus will continue to propagate and infest as the root system develops.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This blew my mind. So you could theoretically apply this during germination to the tap root before planting it into it's first container?


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## cannawizard (Oct 9, 2013)

jberry said:


> It didnt take long for the fungus to infest the roots of these seeds. The fungus will continue to propagate and infest as the root system develops.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


great pic  good info too~

#cheer$


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## bdonson (Oct 9, 2013)

Not trying to be a turd it just comes naturally to me but has anyone considered that the myco in the picture with the seedlings is mold? I mean mold grows well in that environment,, i'm just sayin Here is a link to a pdf file of a newsletter from UC Davis some of which concerns myco inoculation's and some of what they have learned. I found this link in this forum but I don't remember who posted it. Sorry to whom ever that may be anyway if you have read this far this newsletter should be a breeze and help make things clear as mud cheers http://ceventura.ucdavis.edu/newsletters/Topics_in_Subtropics39882.pdf


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## Malevolence (Oct 9, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> Same thang. How are the fungi being fed? Where are they getting their carbos necessary to sustain their growth.


molasses...


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## cannawizard (Oct 9, 2013)

Malevolence said:


> molasses...


the rhizo also exudes certain "sugars/carbs chains" that feed bennies (the plant can also pick which fungi it will foster,) --or so i've heard 

table sugar / brown sugar also works in substitute for molasses~

#cheer$


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## wyteboi (Oct 10, 2013)

notballin said:


> This blew my mind. So you could theoretically apply this during germination to the tap root before planting it into it's first container?


no , not theoretically .... you can put them right on the roots anytime. as said before the benefits are up to the medium an the plant , but i would do everyone just incase!



bdonson said:


> Not trying to be a turd it just comes naturally to me but has anyone considered that the myco in the picture with the seedlings is mold? I mean mold grows well in that environment,, i'm just sayin Here is a link to a pdf file of a newsletter from UC Davis some of which concerns myco inoculation's and some of what they have learned. I found this link in this forum but I don't remember who posted it. Sorry to whom ever that may be anyway if you have read this far this newsletter should be a breeze and help make things clear as mud cheers http://ceventura.ucdavis.edu/newsletters/Topics_in_Subtropics39882.pdf


i will read the info you provided , but its very clear to see that the said pic is not mold , its roots growing extentions. there was no food on that table so thats when the myco really trys to help the roots reach out to find some..... on the other hand if those seeds were in good soil , the myco would not help near as much if at all.



cannawizard said:


> the rhizo also exudes certain "sugars/carbs chains" that feed bennies (the plant can also pick which fungi it will foster,) --or so i've heard
> 
> table sugar / brown sugar also works in substitute for molasses~
> 
> #cheer$


thats the beauty of sybosis or whatever its called! the plants exudes sugars, the bennies eat them an they work together to grow your girls for you. i love organics!





soil


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 11, 2013)

bdonson said:


> Not trying to be a turd it just comes naturally to me but has anyone considered that the myco in the picture with the seedlings is mold?


Yep, looks like mold to me. An old friend of mine who is literally a legend in a certain ag biz told me myco does not work in container environments.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 11, 2013)

bdonson said:


> I found this link in this forum but I don't remember who posted it.


Me. It should be required reading with a test required before you're allowed to post to Advanced. 

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/479798-snake-oil-horticultural-myths-horticultural.html


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## cannawizard (Oct 11, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> Yep, looks like mold to me. An old friend of mine who is literally a legend in a certain ag biz told me myco does not work in container environments.


i was gonna type something explaining why, but i lost interest~ guess ppl can figure it out themselves


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## bdonson (Oct 11, 2013)

ya I knew it was you but didn't want to say so in the hopes more people would read it you old shit stirrer you Cheers Ben. p.s. The reason tho I ask if it might be mold is the way whatever it is grows across the medium whether it attaches to a root structure or not. Maybe it is myco but it's also a great environment to grow mold..I'm just sayin... cheers


Uncle Ben said:


> Me. It should be required reading with a test required before you're allowed to post to Advanced.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/479798-snake-oil-horticultural-myths-horticultural.html


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## Malevolence (Oct 12, 2013)

Uncle Ben said:


> An old friend of mine who is literally a legend in a certain ag biz told me myco does not work in container environments.


why not?

asdfadsfasdf


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 12, 2013)

bdonson said:


> ya I knew it was you but didn't want to say so in the hopes more people would read it you old shit stirrer you Cheers Ben. p.s. The reason tho I ask if it might be mold is the way whatever it is grows across the medium whether it attaches to a root structure or not. Maybe it is myco but it's also a great environment to grow mold..I'm just sayin... cheers


I've seen mold grow on wet cardboard.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 12, 2013)

Malevolence said:


> why not?
> 
> asdfadsfasdf


Don't know. He did an experiment with perennials in pots. 25 got the myco treatment, 25 did not. After a couple of years there was no improvement in the treated plant material. All he told me was he read some article in a pro magazine which verified his failed results. I didn't ask him about the science of it all. 

Read the link. It really goes into detail about the snake oil side of myco supplements, much better than I can.


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## Malevolence (Oct 12, 2013)

I read pages 5 and 6, but saw no mention of container growing (unless it was on a page I did not read). What I took away from the article is the myco does not produce any noticeable benefits because most soil people use already has plenty of microbes, or the products they use are 'trash' more or less.



> Mycorrhizae are not snake oil.





> Many of the numerous scientific papers written on mycorrhizal fungi do not indicate that mycorrhizae are necessarily lacking from most soils, or that the products used to add them to soil are viable.


This does not address some soils might be lacking, hydroponics and inert media, or products that DO work... neither is it specific to container growing.

As for the Biological control section, I have proven to myself, multiple times, using bennies for biological control does indeed work, and anyone that grows in DWC can verify this. Because of where I live and my local microbial environment, my DWC buckets get slime very quickly over the course of 48 hours if I do not use bennies. All I have to do is add Aquashield (liquid chicken shit) twice a week and I have no pythium issues, even at upper 70* which is unheard of for DWC without bennies. Not only do the bennies prevent slime, they allow you to run higher temps and they can suppress algae blooms from light leaks.

I have also proven to myself in my garden, my tap water WILL make both Aquashield and Heisenberg Tea ineffective, because I get immediately slimed as if I used no bennies at all. But treating my water with aquarium tap water conditioner neutralizes the chloramine with sodium thiosulfate, and the bennies do their job and roots remain slime-free. 

The biological control is accomplished by having such a diverse population of microbes (many guilds of species as the article would say) so that no one species (pythium) can become dominant. All that said, I cannot figure out if the paragraph is talking about fungi specifically... but a combination of fungi, bacteria, and nematodes are used in Heisenberg Tea and it is very effective at biological control.

https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/361430-dwc-root-slime-cure-aka.html



> Due to the tremendous number of variables in "brewing" compost teas (ph, fermentation time, water source and content, temperature, added nutrients, feedstocks and aerated vs. not) the results are hard to replicate and quite variable; this makes studies hard to publish.


I also have an issue with the Compost Teas section, because they can be brewed at home using consistent variables and a consistent recipe with ingredients that many people from the community agree are effective because they can actually see the roots recover.

Now, this might all be a moot point because the article seems to specifically talk about soil growing, but I do think it is important to make the distinction between mediums and grow methods when talking about bennies. All I am trying to do is find out why someone would say bennies don't work in container grows because I've never heard that before, and also say bennies do work to control root rot in hydroponics, and most likely soil too honestly. The principal of a diverse population of species preventing any one from dominating should apply regardless of media.

Thanks for the read.


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## Uncle Ben (Oct 12, 2013)

Malevolence, good luck on your quest. Being a soil grower and a KISS mofo, I don't have the issues you hydro guys do.


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## tooteefrootee (Mar 2, 2014)

jberry said:


> yeah, its a real shame, but there is some good info if you can get past the fact that i told off Jesus himself, lol.


hey jberry  I myself would like to thank you for the work you do and the extensive time you take to share your learning experience with others who are trying to learn..like myself  there is another user on riu, name homebrewer. my god, that guy seeks out advanced nutrient users just to fn hate on them and sell his dyna gro crap. I hate those on riu that only have a purpose to seek out certain growers just to f*@k with them. they need to get a life or go jerk off in a closet or something lol. but anyway, im really torn on this trichoderma thing ive seen bits and details on. great white has trichoderma while xtremes mykos is a single bacteria according to the label. im catching some details that trichoderma eat and overtake some of the glomus intradices and other beneficials before they can even propogate. my grow consists of a 60 port aeroflo and soil plants. I do both. right now I have xtreme azos,calcarb,mykos, and I have orca,jellyfish,and great white. spending is not an issue for me and for my organic soil plants I do an aact at least once a week. can u recommend an incoculation and maintenance regimen for me that would be most beneficial for my situation? I have a great room with co2 and environment control. so far, ive brewed teas and used myan microzyme from Humboldt to start my tea brew and after 48 hours I add azos and mykos wp just before feeding to my plants. I know u know your shit when it comes to beneficials and I would love and appreciate very much if you could recommend a regimen for me. thank u sir, I appreciate it


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## cottee (May 6, 2014)

Hi


Malevolence said:


> I read pages 5 and 6, but saw no mention of container growing (unless it was on a page I did not read). What I took away from the article is the myco does not produce any noticeable benefits because most soil people use already has plenty of microbes, or the products they use are 'trash' more or less.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Hi dude what product do u use to condition ur water


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