# My first class with the golden teacher



## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

Hey RIU 

My name is Matt and i have been a long time grow journal logger for my canabis cultivation projects. i have went from not being able to grow mold to having a pretty decent green thumb, thanks to countless hours of reading and help from RIU members. 

now that my canabic projects are in full swing and fairly low maintenance i feel its time i move on tho the wonderfull world of mycology. 

I want this journal to be a learning experience for everyone. I will admit im not too him with all the termonology but i do know a little so bare with me here as this should be a long and interesting ride. if i use a term i will highlight it in blue for the first couple of posts so you guys can correct me if im using something wrong. this will help me learn and possible help others learn who are in the same situation as me. 

I wont be testing my final product untill probabally this summer when i can get out of the house and go on a camping "trip" har har see that pun....score!!

heres the vid i have watched and will be implying this Tek. it seems to be the most simple way of doing this. This vid is about an hour long and worth every second of watching in my humble opinion. also some really cool time lapse's 

[video=youtube;er1i3M-w51E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er1i3M-w51E[/video]


The List
heres what i have to get started. i do believe i shouldnt need much more supplies. 

Pressure cooker
Spores 2x 10ml golden teacher spore syringes, purchased from spores101.com they should be here next week sometime. 
vermiculite
brown rice flour
1/2 pint mason jars.  i know my jars arent tapered, i will have to deal with that when the time comes as i couldnt find tapered ones.
temp/humidity meter with indoor/outdoor temps 
heavy duty tin foil
perilite
32 liter clear plastic tote for my FC (fruiting chamber)
1 gal distilled H2O

things i still need...

lysol disenfectant spray or a quality spray bottle for a bleach water solution. 
another clear tote to make a glovebox
some gloves to use to make the glovebox.


ok on with the details of how im going to attempt this. 

I will be innoculating 8 jars to start (thats all that fit inmy 8 quart PC) so i will start off with 8 jars, i will hammer 2 holes in each lid like the vid suggests and fill them with a mixture of brown rice flour and vermiculite. the vid calls for a 1/4 cup brown rice, 3/4 cup vermiculite and 1/2 cup distillied H2O for a 250ml jar which is a 1/2 pint jar. i will be following this recipe and multiplying it by 8.

I dont really have a good closet or room to use for a sterile enviorment so ill just be making a glove box. i will place all of my sterilized jars, syringe and a lighter into the glove box and then mist the inside with a mild bleach water solution or a disenfectant spray and closing the lid. i wont open the lid until i am done innoculating and have the foil back in place. im hoping this will be enough precaution to keep contams out of my medium. 

I will also be attempting to make my own syringes using the same method with the glove box as my inoculation procedure. though iwill have to bring in the mushroom which cant really be sterilized. i will place the mushroom into a ziplock bag and sterilize everything else. any tips or tricks on this procedure or a good video would be appreciated. 

im going to try and keep my incubation chamber at 82F. 

my FC will be relativly simple. im going to use the clear tote with holes drilled in the side for FAE(fresh air exchange) and damp perilite on the bottom for humidity and medium. I also plan on placing a seedling heating mat under the tote to help encourage that 100% RH?? is this a bad idea? once i start fruiting my first batchim prob going to start the inoculation process on my next. keeping it simple and just running the 8 jars to a time. im hoping that at least 6 make it for the first time but i am eventually hoping for 100% sucess on no contams. i figure that contams are always going to be there so a jar here or there is inevitable but with the procedure i outlined i should be fairly sterile.

anyways heres some pics of the supplies i bought yesterday, once my spores come in ill have some more pics and i will get to inoculating. im going to have a friend come over and take pics for me so i can show off my process using the glove box. i may also get a video recorder and do a vid. im not sure yet. 

View attachment 2525910View attachment 2525916View attachment 2525930View attachment 2525933View attachment 2525921View attachment 2525926View attachment 2525918View attachment 2525912


and there we have it. hope to get some subscriber here along for the ride. Hoping to get some newbies as well as veteran mycologists. feel free to ask any questions and feel free to answer any questions. please if you dont know the answer dont give the "i think" answers. i would like to keep this thread without any bad info.

also please tell me what you think, anything i can do better or anything im missing.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 15, 2013)

Matt, here and subbed up  everything looks very yummy yummy, can't wait to see some action.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

glad to have ya as always Acid  

cant wait till these spores get here and i can start this process.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

You have a pressure cooker - don't bother with the brown rice flour and vermiculite - go with whole grain.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

canndo said:


> You have a pressure cooker - don't bother with the brown rice flour and vermiculite - go with whole grain.


care to explain why you suggest this? im all ears but with no explanation i cant simply take your advice just because you gave it  

i would like to eventually use a substrate that dosent "cake" anyways but my first run i think this is going to be the easiest way for me to go. if all is sucessfull i will be using live culture on my 3rd run to innoc my jars, thus needing a medium such as whole grain or corn.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

on a side not i will be putting up a small DIY tutorial on how to make a fairly inexpensive glove box that is fairly sterile, and should last for a long time. stay tuned!!


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

you have the mistaken impression that a "cake" is "easier". This comes from (and I have said it so many times) a campaign by Fanticus to sell syringes - it worked well but the company left an imprint that lingers today. If you have a pressure cooker you can use whole grain. If you use whole grain then you can finish your colonizing in short order - you can also pour the now coated grain into a flat container yielding more surface area. You could also spawn any number of bulk materials should you so chose. You can also go directly to casing, more properly allying yourself with the way the mushroom grows in the first place. Mushrooms grow in spite of and not because of PF tek, which is essentially what you are doing. Your crop will be larger, and your knowlege of the organism far greater if you go about it in the fashion I describe.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

I see this conception over and over and over and over again. What it leads to is misunderstanding or low understanding of the organism. I have seen people ramp up PF tek to dozens or even hundreds of "cakes" demonstrating that they never really understood what the mushroom does, how it grows and what it likes - it is not their fault, it is because they got off on a wrong track - I'd hate to see you do that.

I have been growing mushrooms for over 40 years - all sorts, my current project is shaggy manes - tougher than I had thought but still worth while. I grew every sort of hallucinogenic mushroom and appreicate the organism greatly, it no longer presents a challenge to me and I am forbidden by the mushroom to sell it or to make money from it in any way, shaggy manes have made no such argument (of course they can't, being mute) - the one you wish to grow has much to teach, and not only in the eating of it but in the growing of it as well.


oh, and I am not nuts - you will find that there is a sort of communication between you and the mushroom - yield to that communication and you will do well.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

sounds good. what kind of whole grain would be a easily obtainable and simplest to use. I was in no way doubting your advice, i have just been on these boards long enough to know that you dont just follow any advice thrown at you as it will lead to disaster. 

i totaly understand what your saying about surface area where you can "shake" the grains over instead of just having one cake, will this work with the perilite as well? i ask because im about at my limits on funding. 

the reason i decided to go with the vermiculite and rice flour cakes is because it looked simple, and easy for a beginer like me. simply inoculate, let colonize and then tap out into the fruiting chamber. i dont plan on using live cultures my first go around because i would like to get one grow and some more knowledge under my belt before i try that, plus i should still have around 12 ml left after my first run, i figue i can use another 8 ml and store the remaining 4 in case anything goes wrong with using live cultures. I really dont plan on selling any of these Im just doing it so i can experience them and i personaly wont buy them because i need to know what im getting. by growing my own i know 100% where and how these mushroom came to be. 

Im really glad to have someone with your experience on board (if your sticking around) and if i come off as argumentive please dont take it that way. I simply like to state my reasoning as to why im doing what im doing and if you do the same we can all learn and change for the better good. 

i will look more into using whoole grains and theres a good chance ill use them in a side by side with the cakes to sort of "learn by doing" and to give the comunity a side by side so if someone like me wishes to start on thier own adventure they will have photo documentation and get off to a better start. I dont doubt that the whole grain medium is by far better as i have no experience and if you say it is with 40 years experience i have no choice but to assume you are correct. 

on a side not i purchased a digital camcorder so i will be taking some video soon. just need a tripod. i wont video the actual growing process but my glovebox tutorial will get taped. 

again thanks for stopping in appreciate you taking the time to explain in more details.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> sounds good. what kind of whole grain would be a easily obtainable and simplest to use. I was in no way doubting your advice, i have just been on these boards long enough to know that you dont just follow any advice thrown at you as it will lead to disaster.
> 
> i totaly understand what your saying about surface area where you can "shake" the grains over instead of just having one cake, will this work with the perilite as well? i ask because im about at my limits on funding.
> 
> ...



Do some searches on this site and you will find all sorts of tidbits of info (from me), and a few pictures that should establish my street creds.

but I don't mind spending the time in order to turn folks away from the dark side - PF tek. As I said, the man who invented it was a genius at marketing and he made millions, he died last year I believe from hepititis. Those of us who had been growing for decades before he came along appreciated his work and we all quitely spanked ourselves for not having thought of the whole scheme before he did. Of course, in the end, he got a case of hubris, began sending instructions on the use of his spore syringes with each purchase and that made him an accomplice in the manufacture of a controled substance - and he went away for a few years and his empire crumbled but his PF Tek lived on. None of my compatriots thought much of that until we began to see what damage it does to people's notions of the organism and so you see my campaign.

The only reason to employ the PF tek is if you don't have a pressure cooker - but as you know, pressure cookers are cheap and everyone who does mycological work should have one just as anyone who does hydroponics should have a good PH meter.


My first suggestion is that you explore popcorn as a substrate - popcorn is forgiving where rye berries - the preference of all mycologists, is not. Too much water and you get mush, too little and you get poor growing characteristics, there are ways to help yourself with gypsum but it should not be necessary.


Simply boil your popcorn until you see just a few kernels with split coatings, then drain, rinse, rinse again and let the kernels dry - over night would be best.

Really, that is all you have to worry about. Use full quarts if your pressure cooker can manage them but if not, whatever fits. Sterilize your corn for 45 minutes to an hour at 15 lbs. When it cools, innoculate - if you want to use your holes, and your innoculation ports and your tyvek fine, but it really isn't necessary.

you see, mycelium uses little oxygen and loves CO2 - it creates it's own and thrives in atmospheres with CO2 in the tens of thousands of parts per million, so you can colonize a half quart of corn without ever needing to let it breath. I have done it thousands of times (literaly).


but fine, so you are unsure and you give your corn some fresh air. You will innoculate your corn with any amount of spore solution you wish - ANY amount is enough - 1 cc if you can manage it, half a cc is even better. Let your corn sit until you see white bits growing - if you can manage a room with 84 - 86 degrees then you will see white after about three days. Wait a day after you see your mycelium being and then shake that jar - that is the point. Wait until you see white again - maybe two or three days, wait another day and shake again - it usually only takes another two days, maybe three until you see full colonization. If not, shake it up one last time. I have seen full colonization in 8 or 9 days. PF tek? weeks.

Now, give your corn an extra day or so, you don't have to worry about internal colonization because you shook each individual kernel, remember? get yourself some sort of flat container, one that will allow you to pour your grain into it to a depth of no less than one inch, preverably two or three, you can use more than one jar if you wish. Put that in your fruiting chamber for a few days, you want the mycelium to "knit" or become like one great hunk of cheese with embeded kernels of corn. Your fruiting chamber has the humidity you want for this to occur - never mind the particulars now, I will tell you all about them later.


After you see healthy mycelium like pure white cotton growing all over every part of your grain in that bed, case it. Casing is the act of putting half an inch or more depending upon the depth of your substrate, of reduced nutrient material on the top of your high nutrient substrate. You are signaling to the mycelium that it is running out of food. do your research on casing, there are many good methods - I generaly use 80/20 - non or low nutrient to higher nutrient, in this case, sifted coir 20 percent, coarse vermiculite 80 percent - bring it to field moisture content - where you can squeeze a handful and a few drops of water run out of your hand.

Pasteurize this stuff, 160 - 180 for an hour or so, let it cool and spread a layer on your substrate. Let that colonize and then the fun begins.


The primary fruiting trigger is light. So you want to incubate your corn in darkness but that is not essential as your mycelium is too young to fruit widely, after you have cased however, you want that thing in the DARK. Even a fraction of a second of light will trigger fruiting - but don't worry about it your first time.



The next trigger is CO2 - high CO2 for colonization, low Co2 for fruiting - this is why you will see fresh air exchanges talked about over and over again - the point is that you want low Co2, high humidity in your fruiting chamber. The third trigger is temperature. You don't have to worry about temperature with this species because it will fruit eventualy anyway. 


Once you have fully colonized substrate, have signaled the mycelium that it is running out of nutrient, given it light, and reduced yor co2 concentration you will see pins in a few days. All you have to do is maintain conditions and you cannot fail.


Next time I will tell you about PH.

I hope I didn't make this sound harder than it is - it is the concepts that are important, once you have them down you can grow all sorts of mushrooms and you can grow cubensis on just about anything.

I perfected a one container method that works quite well - it is all a mater of timing.


About live culture? i you are looking for monocultures - the path toward truely huge yields then you want to get good at live culture and cloning otherwise, don't bother.


However, if you are looking to work with the entire range of mycological methods - think about using agar - you will have a glove box after all.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

wow lots of info there to take in. ok so let me see if i can break this down to laymans terms and you can tell me if i have it right (sorry im a viual learner not a book or reading guy, videos and diagrams are my niche) 

get some popcorn kernels and lots of them. boil them untill you see some splitting in the kernels occur...rinse them a couple times and then set in a colender over night to dry. 

i have a 8 quart pressure cooker, it fits 8 1/2 pint jars pretty good. i already bought them and if its not a big deal would like to use them. 

fill my jars with the popcorn substrate i had just let dry overnight, leave a small amount of room so when i shake them the kernels can move around.

dont bother putting any holes in the lids??

after sterilized and cooled inoculate, shake every time i see small while mycelium untill jar is fully colonized.

once jar is colonized pour them onto the bottom of my tote and cover them with more popcorn? prepared in the same manner as the popcorn in the jars minus the sterilization process? or should i sterilize them for safe measure. 

once all that popcorn is colonized in my tote add a layer of my vermiculite and coir at a 20/80 ratio coir/vermiculite. sterilize this substrate????

keep in complete darkeness untill the coir/vermiculite bedding is colonized and then allow fas/light/temps to become ideal for fruiting...

sit back and watch them grow. 

in a nutshell is that about it?

i will research casing a bit more. thanks for all the info. i though i had this all figured out lol i guess there is much to learn. but if i can increase my yeild without having to buy too much more (will have to get popcorn and some cocoa coir) im all ears, and im here to learn so turning down solid advice is not my style. appreciate you taking time to help me understand this a bit more. 

i do have a question. why did PF tek guy make so much money with that method? is it because he was able to sell spore syringes when they werent otherwise needed? should i buy prints next time instead? will prints last much longer thansyringes, i know they are way more expensive.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

found this on the web, seems about right. is this info pretty correct? 

http://www.earthstongue.com/site/388422/page/933739/site

you said light for even a fraction of a second will cause the mushrooms to start fruiting. how do you check on the caseing to make sure that it is evenly covered with mycelium if you cant let any light in?


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> wow lots of info there to take in. ok so let me see if i can break this down to laymans terms and you can tell me if i have it right (sorry im a viual learner not a book or reading guy, videos and diagrams are my niche)
> 
> get some popcorn kernels and lots of them. boil them untill you see some splitting in the kernels occur...rinse them a couple times and then set in a colender over night to dry.
> 
> ...


First, the mycelium needs some oxygen, if you fill your half quarts up there won't be room for that oxygen so your grow will fail. Just go ahead and use one of the "lid" teks.

find yourself some sort of plastic container - like a plastic shoe box and pour your colonized corn into that. You might be wise to drill a hole or two in the bottom - in the event your mycelium gets too hot (it will produce it's own heat - be aware of that), it might go over the threshhold, if that happens it will begin to exude liquid. If that liquid stays in the bottom of your container too long it will drown the mycelium - best however not to let your temp go too high. At a depth of 3 inches or so you don't much have to worry about generated heat.

No, you don't want to cover with more popcorn - remember that you are looking to leave high nutrient substrates behind as quickly as you can - your high nutrient substrates HAVE to be sterile, pouring more grain on top of your colonized grain will guarantee contamination.


About contamination - first, as I say, you will get contamination on high nutrient material, your mycelium is very contamination resistant so if it has colonized anything it is unlikely that contamination will attack it so long as your PH remains basic. Your mycelium exudes substances that help it consume food, and these substances are acidic so your ph will change as things progress, eventually, the ph will come into contaminate range and you WILL get contamination. The point here is to keep your substrates as basic as your mycelium will allow and to throw youir spent substrate out before you get to the dangerous zone.

The point of all this is to return your organism to something as close as possible to optimum natural conditions. What you are doing is eliminating all competition first, then letting the mycelium do what it does naturaly. you want to pasteurize your casing so that you are being selective as well, the pasteurization will kill all competition but leave the beneficial organisms behind - that gives you about a two week window before the bad things come knocking.

The PF tek guy pretty much invented the syringe. He had people believe that one needed a syringe per jar (or something like that). So he would collect 10 bucks for each PF half pint someone was growing - that adds up. In reality you don't ever need more than one syringe - ever, for eternity, for each "strain".


No, don't use prints - maybe later but syringes last many months and they are very easy to work with - although prints WILL last for many years (the longest I have seen was 10 years, but I needed to do some fancy things in order to get any of them to germinate. Spores tend to dry out, when they do they will only germinate after they are rehydrated - this presents a problem - how do you force water back into them? 10 mm of vacuum on submerged spores for a day seemed to get me the few percentages of still viable spores I needed to continue the strain.

You see the entire point here is to let your mycelium do your work for you - this is absolutely contrary to PF tek.


the mycelium will prevent itself from getting contaminated,the mycelium will sense when it is time to fruit, the mycelium will grow where it is invited to grow and it is always better to just let it do what it has done for millions of years, you are step by step returning the mycelium to its natural state - an environment that is filled with competition - just like in nature. The ultimate test if you are ever up for it is to return your species intirely back to nature - put a plug of mycelium back into the earth - that that is simply a test to see how well you understand your organism and not necessary at all.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> found this on the web, seems about right. is this info pretty correct?
> 
> http://www.earthstongue.com/site/388422/page/933739/site
> 
> you said light for even a fraction of a second will cause the mushrooms to start fruiting. how do you check on the caseing to make sure that it is evenly covered with mycelium if you cant let any light in?




That is where experience comes it -= there is no way to tell you for sure but you can do something about it. What happens is that if the mycelium has not yet reached the surface of the casing, and the container is transparent, the light will hit the side and you will have what is known as border breaks, where the pins will come up from the side rather than from the top. If you cover the sides of your container or use a very black tote, you don't have to worry about that. Of course, if you do not, you will still have mushrooms and your second flush will likely be from the top of the casing.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

*

The earth's tongue method is a hybrid between "spawning" and casing and I don't recomend it. Think layers, the bottom layer is the one that is first colonized and has the most nutrient the top layer is the casing layer, you want your mycelium to grow upward into that top layer - the flatter the better only because you would rather not have some myelium beat others to the top (or more properly, just a tiny tiny bit below the surface)​




*


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

ok so i have another question. say i do everything perfectly, have a perfect mycilium casing and nice even fruits. is it a one time deal where they grow out, i harvest and then have to start over from scratch? or do they continue to produce more mushrooms as i harvest the ones that are complete?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

oh and i have read through some of your micropropogation journal you have in your sig a while back and found it pretty interesting, nothing i would ever do but a pretty cool experiment.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

canndo said:


> That is where experience comes it -= there is no way to tell you for sure but you can do something about it. What happens is that if the mycelium has not yet reached the surface of the casing, and the container is transparent, the light will hit the side and you will have what is known as border breaks, where the pins will come up from the side rather than from the top. If you cover the sides of your container or use a very black tote, you don't have to worry about that. Of course, if you do not, you will still have mushrooms and your second flush will likely be from the top of the casing.


so best off to just wait it out a full 2 weeks and then hope for the best?


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> oh and i have read through some of your micropropogation journal you have in your sig a while back and found it pretty interesting, nothing i would ever do but a pretty cool experiment.



I discovered a series of protocols in the micropropagation of marijuana that I am looking to patent, beyond that I managed to perfect artificial seed technology that I am attempting to sell on an industrial scale though currently state and federal laws inhibit my being able to make a finacial go of it - I figured I would be wise to not give away any of those now secret methods. These methods do let me keep libraries of pure genetics - my biggest problem is the one you started out with - a lack of a green thumb - I have a brown thumb - i.e. I am fairly skilled at working with the other side of nature - the dark side, the decomposers, the part of nature that most don't concern themselves with except to limit - fungi, bacteria and the like.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> so best off to just wait it out a full 2 weeks and then hope for the best?


No, as you won't learn as much that way and it will be hit or miss. If your casing is shallow, you will get breakthrough early, deeper and it will be late. What you don't want is what is called overlay - that is where the mycelium no longer grows upward but reaches the top and begins to grow along the surface - if you do that your yield will be greatly diminished and you will get a mat of fiber on the top that will shed water. With PF tek that is ALL you get on the entire surface of your cake.

Best if you keep your container light proof, wait a week or so and then check in on it. When you do, keep the light levels low - you would be surprised at how much even a dark tote will allow light to enter.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

I fear I am making a mistake here - I am giving you too much information and making it seem too hard - it isn't, your species of mushooom will grow in spite of mistakes save contamination - this mushroom will grow almost anywhere in almost any condition on almost any substrate from dog food to straw from horse manure to compost. you will get fruit in bright light, you will even get fruit in darkness (though they will have very long stems and very small caps). What I am telling you is just with an eye toward perfection


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

The Japanese perfected a bottle method of growing enoke mushrooms. Enoke grow extended stems in the absence of light and small caps. The Japanese innoculate grain in a plastic quart or half gallon jar. After the grain has been colonized within the jar they sprinkle casing on top of the grain within the jar, about half an inch. they then put a baggie on the top of the jar and it makes it's own little fruiting chamber. They remove the baggie once a day and mist the surface within the jar, the baggie is not too tight and so there is enough air circulation. Once the pinning starts they don't worry about the baggie any more and spray lightly 4 times a day.



https://www.rollitup.org/hallucinatory-substances/566610-little-more-mushroom-porn.html


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## polyarcturus (Feb 15, 2013)

Liston to the man canndo. he know his mushrooms subbed up tho pretty excited ill throw some of my pics up here when i got some have some growing right now so you can what canndo speaks of. popcorn is so much easier and better than PF, of course my last run with PF cakes was years ago, and ive started fresh recently with popcorn, but so far so good, now i need to get a handle on processing my STRW and ill be in business.

pretty simple tho, sterile popcorn, innoc,(1day), incubate(2weeks), inoc tub(5min), incubate tub (2 weeks), fruit (2 weeks)

to put that in relative terms you could fruit as many jars as you wanted in that time period but the tub full at one time would always beat the PF tek in terms or production. 

if you really wanted to take full advantage of what PF tek emulates(the idea is more area get FAE), you would innoc big straw cylinders with spawn and fruit one colonized on racks, you see this alot for edible mushroom grows.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 15, 2013)

anyways subbed up, ill get a chance to read this essay later, proofread, and perhaps simplify what i can.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

https://www.rollitup.org/hallucinatory-substances/566059-why-you-case.html


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

GThe holy grail


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

canndo said:


> View attachment 2526474GThe holy grail


is that a rye berry or whatever?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

also,i need this op to be as low maintenance as possible. i cant mist 4 times a day or give fae 3-4 times a day its just not going to happen as they wont be in my home. (my wife said no fucking way) 

so i need to make this as simple and easily maintainable as possible. maintenance once a day is about all i can do.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> anyways subbed up, ill get a chance to read this essay later, proofread, and perhaps simplify what i can.


Poly, glad to have you here m8. the essay isnt really anything great just explains what i have bought and what i thought i was going to be doing. cando has kinda made me do a 180 on my original thoughts. but thats why we journal because we seek the wisdome of the wiser.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> is that a rye berry or whatever?


That sir, is one ounce of the most wonderful sclerotial expression of marvel in the world - it is a black truffle, worth about 40 dollars wholesale. I posted it just because. It was a dream of mine to domesticate the black truffle. Um... if you want, you can grow psychoactive truffles with far less effort and at far less expense than what you currently intend - but this one is only for shaving over home made pasta and rich creamery unsalted butter (Irish butter) and a touch of aged parmisano regiano - oh, and a little bit of fresh ground pepper.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> also,i need this op to be as low maintenance as possible. i cant mist 4 times a day or give fae 3-4 times a day its just not going to happen as they wont be in my home. (my wife said no fucking way)
> 
> so i need to make this as simple and easily maintainable as possible. maintenance once a day is about all i can do.



Consider sclerotia. oh, one more thing, do you or your wife suffer from cluster or migrane headaches? I got my wife to welcome my "hobby" when it was psychoactive because I cured her migranes permanently with a few doses of mushrooms.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 15, 2013)

low maintenance? is easy make a tub with one of those 10$ air pumps ad water and perlite to the bottom of tub, place air stone from pump in there( i h2o2 to the water when i first introduce colonized tubs, jars cakes into it) 3 or 4 holes in the top filled with poly or tyvek, something that will allow it to breath, positive pressure from the air added from air pump. get your basic 3 dollar extension cord a 9w flouro bulb 5000k, and a hole drill 1 1/4" to fit the bulb adapter thru
http://www.lowes.com/pd_72577-334-738V-SP-L_4294722558__?productId=1099209&Ns=p_product_avg_rating|1&pl=1&currentURL=?Ns=p_product_avg_rating|1&facetInfo= to

(this way will allow you to daisy chain more tubs should you choose)


you have to think though in mushroom talk bulk is a relative term, you can do a "bulk" grow inside of a 4"x4" tupperware, its more a method of growing, where you take your spawn and innoc a pasteurized substrate in order to grow the mushrooms in a bed, you could do "bulks" in all kinds of container, half of a gallon bad, a little tupperware from sliced turkey a pot ect. size isnt relevant just a style. why people do bigger bulks is for obvious reasons but also to get larger more natural forming mushrooms, depth of substrate is integral to this.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 15, 2013)

ill get some pics of my setup for you its pretty simple and i never fan or mist. and my old thread tells the story.

and really mushrooms are the last thing i could see getting caught for. dump everthing into a solution of bleach, equip right inside the totes and formed mushrooms down the drain. i could clean up my mushroom grow in 2min probably. if you grow edibles they would probably never even know.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> is that a rye berry or whatever?



Another thing - I know you have limited resources- I worry that you will have trouble if you are not growing in your home and don't have instant and constant access to your grow but if you can pony up a few dollars, purchase Paul Stamet's books on the subject. Paul Stamets is a God, I am just a poor oaf compared to him. He is a pioneer I had the good fortune to know many many years ago when we were all beginning this endeavor - he took it to the extreme and has discovered micoremediation, he can kill carpenter ants with fungus (eliminating the need for pesticides), he can clean oil saturated soil with mushrooms, he can decompose chemical weapons with oyster mushrooms, he can filter bad water with colonized wheat straw and he might just inspire you as he did me. Oh, and you should see what his soil additions will do for your plants.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

ill have to check that out. i heard about the mushroom that can decompose oil, i though that was awesome.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> low maintenance? is easy make a tub with one of those 10$ air pumps ad water and perlite to the bottom of tub, place air stone from pump in there( i h2o2 to the water when i first introduce colonized tubs, jars cakes into it) 3 or 4 holes in the top filled with poly or tyvek, something that will allow it to breath, positive pressure from the air added from air pump. get your basic 3 dollar extension cord a 9w flouro bulb 5000k, and a hole drill 1 1/4" to fit the bulb adapter thru
> http://www.lowes.com/pd_72577-334-738V-SP-L_4294722558__?productId=1099209&Ns=p_product_avg_rating|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_avg_rating%7C1&facetInfo= to
> 
> (this way will allow you to daisy chain more tubs should you choose)
> ...



Follow poly's lead on humidification systems, the standard soak the pearlite thing is far inferior.


Here is my shaggy mane humidification, air exchange system, it could be used for any grow, you can change the rate of humidification from 80 - 100 percent by dialing in the dry mist humidifiers.



Note the gang valves at the top - each is connected to a flexible plastic tube that can be put into a large bin, within that bin are smaller, modular bins that hold the substrate. Shaggy manes demand very specific rh parameters (I am still looking for the perfect one) I posted some pics of my shaggy mane crop some time ago and frankly it was pitiful but I am sure that I can work out the details - eventually.

Anyway, if you can perfect something along the lines of what I have you will be well served - for any mycological endeavor. You needn't have such a large air pump and you can do it with a fogger - those little ultrsonic things, you can put that in water and use a cheap 10 dollar aquarium pump to pressurize the initial water container and pipe plenum fresh air into your grow. Remember optimum is 2 to 4 exchanges per hour. Figure the size of your pump and the size of your fruiting chamber. If your pump will do four gallons of air an hour then you can support a one gallon fruiting chamber. (subtract the size of your substrate container).

Like that.


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## Thundercat (Feb 15, 2013)

Hey retired glad I came across this I look forward to seeing how it goes for ya man.


I"m gonna have to look into one of those books. I have been in love with mushrooms for the last 9 years or so now. I spent about 5-6 months growing them a few years back with great success I felt. Its all in the first 30 pages of my journal. I was running Wild bird seed, and doing casings in lasagna trays. I used a water diffused air system to avoid needing to fan them and open the chamber more then necessary. I had filter patches on the sides of my fruiting chamber and the air pump forced fresh air in which pushed out the co2. I was mixing my casings 50% colonized WBS, and 50% sterilized vermiculite. Let them colonize for a few days then case the top with more verm just before fruiting I completely agree they can teach us all more then we know. I think mushrooms are something that most people should try at least once to open their minds. I felt like my eyes were opened to the world after the first time I ate mushrooms, and each time since they have taught me so much about myself, and life. Any way good luck with this, if you got any questions I'll be around but it seems like canndo has many more years of experience here.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

Poly uses a 9 watt fluro. Careful with your lighting, it will introduce heat that you have to provide for, your crop does not need much light, but the light you give it should be across the entire growing field, if not you will have mushrooms that bend to the diminished source. Your fruit will be elongated and your caps will be small. um.... I checked, the elongated fruit weighs no more than normal fruit - so don't bother looking for extra weight through light maniuplation.


Mushroom fruit start as primordia - little mycelial knots that turn into tiny pinheads. They will grow somewhat slower than they do at the end, the reason for this is that to a certain point the cells actually accumulate within the fruit, at a later stage the cells simply expand - you will see something wonderful, you will see your fruit grow before your eyes but the weight will not really increase after a certain point.

(really, you can look, go down to get yourself a beer and half an hour look again and you will see your crop larger, noticibly so).


This is why for the most part you want to harvest just before the veils break, in actuality, your weight will not be much different nor your potency changed after a certain point before the caps even being to open but, well, it is too much fun to watch them continue to grow. in the pics you saw you will see that I waited far too long to harvest. The spores can actually be dangerous to your health and at a certain level you will see vast accumulations of them everywhere. Oyster mushrooms can cause respratory problems and I have had to wash down the walls of my house because of what must surely have been several ounces of oyster spores.


BTW you don't have that problem with shaggies as shaggies autodigest, they turn to slime and the slime captures the spores making a black sticky mess.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Hey retired glad I came across this I look forward to seeing how it goes for ya man.
> 
> 
> I"m gonna have to look into one of those books. I have been in love with mushrooms for the last 9 years or so now. I spent about 5-6 months growing them a few years back with great success I felt. Its all in the first 30 pages of my journal. I was running Wild bird seed, and doing casings in lasagna trays. I used a water diffused air system to avoid needing to fan them and open the chamber more then necessary. I had filter patches on the sides of my fruiting chamber and the air pump forced fresh air in which pushed out the co2. I was mixing my casings 50% colonized WBS, and 50% sterilized vermiculite. Let them colonize for a few days then case the top with more verm just before fruiting I completely agree they can teach us all more then we know. I think mushrooms are something that most people should try at least once to open their minds. I felt like my eyes were opened to the world after the first time I ate mushrooms, and each time since they have taught me so much about myself, and life. Any way good luck with this, if you got any questions I'll be around but it seems like canndo has many more years of experience here.



No no, everyone has something to add, everyone but those who are stuck in their opinions - I try hard not to be one of those although sometimes I do get opinionated beyond reason. Still, my opinion of PF tek is I believe a proper one. Please, no PF tek, it is counter productive if you want to learn the ways of the dark side of nature. BTW nice flush you have there, must have been a fine time harvesting. That is both the happiest and the saddest time I have, harvesting, on the one hand I have proven to myself that I did the right things, on the other, the trip is over (except for the other flushes of course) and that makes me a little sad as well.

Mushrooms are a portal to the places that pot will not take you - neither growing nor ingesting, I believe that we need both in order to understand nature (as much as we are able anyway). Of course pot is a portal to places that mushrooms cannot take you as well.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

canndo said:


> Consider sclerotia. oh, one more thing, do you or your wife suffer from cluster or migrane headaches? I got my wife to welcome my "hobby" when it was psychoactive because I cured her migranes permanently with a few doses of mushrooms.


she suffers from a migrane, his name is Matt 



Thundercat said:


> Hey retired glad I came across this I look forward to seeing how it goes for ya man.
> 
> 
> I"m gonna have to look into one of those books. I have been in love with mushrooms for the last 9 years or so now. I spent about 5-6 months growing them a few years back with great success I felt. Its all in the first 30 pages of my journal. I was running Wild bird seed, and doing casings in lasagna trays. I used a water diffused air system to avoid needing to fan them and open the chamber more then necessary. I had filter patches on the sides of my fruiting chamber and the air pump forced fresh air in which pushed out the co2. I was mixing my casings 50% colonized WBS, and 50% sterilized vermiculite. Let them colonize for a few days then case the top with more verm just before fruiting I completely agree they can teach us all more then we know. I think mushrooms are something that most people should try at least once to open their minds. I felt like my eyes were opened to the world after the first time I ate mushrooms, and each time since they have taught me so much about myself, and life. Any way good luck with this, if you got any questions I'll be around but it seems like canndo has many more years of experience here.


hey TC glad to have ya along, so much to learn and experience. im going to look into a humidifier and i already have a air pump. 

would something like this work?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

ok so i think you never answered my question. if you did im sorry i am asking again. 

adter my mushrooms start growing. and i harvest them, do more grow? is it like a perpetual thing once it starts and once its done its done?

for example, with a MJ plant you grow one plant, once you harvest it and chop it down at the stem, anothe rplant does not just grow. is this the same with mushrooms or will my case/cake continue to grow new fruits until they simply cannot grow anymore due to insuficient nutrients or contams or whatever would prevent them from growing. 

not sure if im clear on what im asking. you talk about flushes....what exactly is a flush?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> low maintenance? is easy make a tub with one of those 10$ air pumps *ad water and perlite* to the bottom of tub, place air stone from pump in there( i h2o2 to the water when i first introduce colonized tubs, jars cakes into it) 3 or 4 holes in the top filled with poly or tyvek, something that will allow it to breath, positive pressure from the air added from air pump. get your basic 3 dollar extension cord a 9w flouro bulb 5000k, and a hole drill 1 1/4" to fit the bulb adapter thru
> http://www.lowes.com/pd_72577-334-738V-SP-L_4294722558__?productId=1099209&Ns=p_product_avg_rating|1&pl=1&currentURL=?Ns=p_product_avg_rating|1&facetInfo= to
> 
> (this way will allow you to daisy chain more tubs should you choose)
> ...


i dont think water and perilite is a option when casing is it?


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

your sketch seems counter productive - you want, if at all possible, to precondition your air before it gets into your fruiting chamber.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

which book would you recomend?

http://www.amazon.com/The-Mushroom-Cultivator-Practical-Mushrooms/dp/0961079800/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1360978058&sr=8-4&keywords=Paul+Stamet's

or 

http://www.amazon.com/Growing-Gourmet-Medicinal-Mushrooms-Stamets/dp/1580081754/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360978058&sr=8-1&keywords=Paul+Stamet's

i could prob spring for one of them.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

canndo said:


> your sketch seems counter productive - you want, if at all possible, to precondition your air before it gets into your fruiting chamber.


not exactly sure what you mean?


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> ok so i think you never answered my question. if you did im sorry i am asking again.
> 
> adter my mushrooms start growing. and i harvest them, do more grow? is it like a perpetual thing once it starts and once its done its done?
> 
> ...



Yes, more grow. Remember that we don't call the "mushrooms" fruit for nothing, they really are fruit eminating from the body of the mushroom which is a very complicated vial organism that is the three dimentional mat of mycelium - many subscribe to the belief that this mat is intelligent, I am one of them, there are billiions of cross connections and each filliment has two way communication with each cross connection - in a fully formed dychariotic fungus there are what as known as "clamp" connections that spread DNA and nutrient from one filliment to the next.

The first time you take mushrooms and view your grow at the same time you will probably agree with me.


You will get as few as one flush and as many as 6 flushes - if you are foolish enough to try to get 6 then you will deserve the green mold called trich (not to be confused with the good trich you get on pot) that you will almost surely get on your grow. A flush is one production of fruit. your second flush is in the works even as your first is growing, inspection of your substrate will show new primordia waiting in line for their turn. However, contrary to belief, your third flush is actually starting again from "scratch". the more you disrupt your substrate in picking your first flush the worse your second flush will be. The third doesn't matter. 

expect your second flush to come in, in three to five days after your second, expect your third about 10 days after your second. In most cases you should toss your entire grow after your third but in any case definiately after your fourth. If you are doing things correctly you will get 80 percent of your total yield from your first two flushes and about 10 percent more from your third.

What WILL happen is that your subsequent flushes will be far more sparse but the ones that grow will be far large than your first or even your second. I have gotten dinner plate size caps from my third or fourth flushes. My shaggies grow huge in their third flush, growing as tall as 10 inches and maybe 5 inches across.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> which book would you recomend?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/The-Mushroom-Cultivator-Practical-Mushrooms/dp/0961079800/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1360978058&sr=8-4&keywords=Paul+Stamet%27s
> 
> ...


Get the first one.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> not exactly sure what you mean?



Think plenum - pecondition the air and then force it into your chamber, the more positive pressure the better but you don't want too much air exchange because even 100 percent humidity when blown across your substrate will evaporate moisture from that substrate. Remember that you can put your laundry out to dry in 100 percent humidity and they will dry anyway.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

canndo said:


> Yes, more grow. Remember that we don't call the "mushrooms" fruit for nothing, they really are fruit eminating from the body of the mushroom which is a very complicated vial organism that is the three dimentional mat of mycelium - many subscribe to the belief that this mat is intelligent, I am one of them, there are billiions of cross connections and each filliment has two way communication with each cross connection - in a fully formed dychariotic fungus there are what as known as "clamp" connections that spread DNA and nutrient from one filliment to the next.
> 
> The first time you take mushrooms and view your grow at the same time you will probably agree with me.
> 
> ...


ok sweet that cleared one thing up for me. im really glad i started this thread when i did and didnt wait untill i was done inoculating my first batch. 

and i thank you for all your time you are spending helping me figure this out.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

canndo said:


> Get the first one.


i will order it if the wife OK's it


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

canndo said:


> Think plenum - pecondition the air and then force it into your chamber, the more positive pressure the better but you don't want too much air exchange because even 100 percent humidity when blown across your substrate will evaporate moisture from that substrate. Remember that you can put your laundry out to dry in 100 percent humidity and they will dry anyway.


so something like this?




set the time to run 4x a day for 30 min?


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## highfirejones (Feb 15, 2013)

is there a good web spot for spores?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

not sure to be honest. i ordered mine from spores101.com 

20 bucks got me 2 10ml syringes. 3-5 day shipping with tracking.....now lets see if i actually get them


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## Thundercat (Feb 15, 2013)

I used a large clear tote to fruit in, and a pint size mason jar to filter my air. I ran an air line into the chamber and tinto the bottom of the mason jar through holes in the lid. The jar was about 1/2-3/4 full of water and the other holes in the lid had pourous medical tape over the holes. This forced the air to bubble up through the water filtering it and constantly circulating air into my chamber. Cost next to nothing to make, and worked great at keeping the humidity up also.

I ordered some syringes from spores101 I got them, but they weren't very dark sadly.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

i ordered mine a day or 2 ago and they havent shipped yet 

oh and great idea on the mason jar i have plenty of them kicking around from other "hobbies"


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## Thundercat (Feb 15, 2013)

Yep I set up my op for under $100 and was pulling flushes in under 30 days with good size casings.

The jars where just one of the little things I tried.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

yeah i have about 100 bucks invested thus far.


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## highfirejones (Feb 15, 2013)

thats the thing, quick time till harvest if gos well, I tried about a decade ago and got close(could literally smell the mushroom smell already I swear) and then it became contaminated, I always sprayed diluted bleach mist in my area before even checking things out except this one time, literally 1 week later a green mold had infiltrated my substrate, the shroom smell was gone and that was it, a couple months ago I heard u couldnt get spores so glad u guys are doin it, keep up the godly work


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

im prety sure theres no need for bleach water spray, from my understanding once the mycilium from the fungi your cultivating is fully formed it creates almost a barrier from other contams from setting up shop so to say. I may be wrong on this. but inoculation is the toughest part because if contams get in then they can overcome your mycilium, if your mycilium sets up shop and is allowed to fully establish its pretty difficult for other fungi (contams) to get in.

like i said i may be wrong so anyone feel free to correct me if im misunderstood.


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## Killua (Feb 15, 2013)

I made this account just to say thanks to Matt and everyone that has contributed to his journal. I am a beginner as well and WAS going to attempt PF tek(I haven't bought anything yet, luckily). I have a feeling this thread is going to lead a lot of beginners in the right direction.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 15, 2013)

oaky some pics to brink togather what bulk is and what corn can do, first pic is clonized corn that was spawned into verm inside a gallon ziplock bad. then a close up of the mushrooms, the second is a pic of a corn cake, fruiting directly from the corn second is close up again



okay forst pic is bulb into adapter, adapter goes thru a hole to outside tub, to extention cord, which i can plug both my air pump and the next extension cord for the tub underneath. last pic so you can see everything,also mushrooms missing just harvested....



to the left of my fruiting chambers is my incubation chamber which sits on top of my glove box, which has a velcro flap to cover glove holes when not in use and a see thru top made of plexiglass. oh, and theres the mushrooms again and a fresh seed harvest, purpx(kushxbubblegum) i believe
(canndo i know you said i use a 9w in fact i use a 13w not on purpose just what was availble i would prefer it was less bright hess the plastic sheet in the tub)


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## polyarcturus (Feb 15, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> im prety sure theres no need for bleach water spray, from my understanding once the mycilium from the fungi your cultivating is fully formed it creates almost a barrier from other contams from setting up shop so to say. I may be wrong on this. but inoculation is the toughest part because if contams get in then they can overcome your mycilium, if your mycilium sets up shop and is allowed to fully establish its pretty difficult for other fungi (contams) to get in.
> 
> like i said i may be wrong so anyone feel free to correct me if im misunderstood.


correct for the most part this is another advantage bulk has over PF, substrate doesn't have to be sterile. PF tek and fruiting straight from grain tends to comtaminate quikly even with mycelium because in some cases the mycelium will encourage mold and other fungi to germinate on a pasteurized surface there is more than the mycelium there is the microbes too, which can also benefit the mycelium nutritionally.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 15, 2013)

Killua said:


> I made this account just to say thanks to Matt and everyone that has contributed to his journal. I am a beginner as well and WAS going to attempt PF tek(I haven't bought anything yet, luckily). I have a feeling this thread is going to lead a lot of beginners in the right direction.


well your welcome my friend. im just learning myself so i cant say i have contibuted much. but the others on here have definatly done thier part!!



polyarcturus said:


> View attachment 2526722View attachment 2526723View attachment 2526724View attachment 2526725
> oaky some pics to brink togather what bulk is and what corn can do, first pic is clonized corn that was spawned into verm inside a gallon ziplock bad. then a close up of the mushrooms, the second is a pic of a corn cake, fruiting directly from the corn second is close up again
> 
> View attachment 2526728View attachment 2526729View attachment 2526730View attachment 2526731View attachment 2526732
> ...


poly, correct me if im wrong but looks like you have some contamination going on?? in the pics i see green and blue in with your mycilium.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 15, 2013)

good eye! asshole, haha jk.

yeah ive got comtams!!!! jk im pretty fucking lazy, had a pretty good run that last attempt now i just keep it around for fun. im sure i could clean up and get shit straight again, but alas no time, and dont care enough to do it


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## Xrangex (Feb 16, 2013)

He'll yeah man, I'll be staring my shroom op next pay check, spores are on their way


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 16, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> good eye! asshole, haha jk.
> 
> yeah ive got comtams!!!! jk im pretty fucking lazy, had a pretty good run that last attempt now i just keep it around for fun. im sure i could clean up and get shit straight again, but alas no time, and dont care enough to do it


i wasnt trying to be a douche just wasnt sure if it was contams or if it was something else. 



Xrangex said:


> He'll yeah man, I'll be staring my shroom op next pay check, spores are on their way


nice stick around m8 and post up a link to your journal or just post here if you dont want to start your own.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 16, 2013)

ok so i think im going to take a mini fridge i have had outside on the porch for 2 years now and convert it into a simple DIY incubator.

supply list

fridge (check)
incandecent light bulb (check)
plywood (check)
thermostat

so looks like ill just have to get a decent thermostat and i should be able to get er done.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 16, 2013)

nah i was just playing its a good thing you saw it at least you are looking which when dealing with growing mushrooms is important.


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## canndo (Feb 16, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> so something like this?
> 
> View attachment 2526615
> 
> ...



Hell, if your humidity is right - go 24 hour hours a day, why let the co2 build up? now this is only for fruit, when you are still running (that is the term for colonizing substrate or casing) then you want the moisture but not the air exchange - just keep everything covered and your moisture level will remain stable.


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## highfirejones (Feb 16, 2013)

unsterile substrate, I like the sound of that


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## highfirejones (Feb 16, 2013)

I'm gonna go figure out how to subscribe, unsterile substrate! thats awesome!


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## canndo (Feb 16, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> im prety sure theres no need for bleach water spray, from my understanding once the mycilium from the fungi your cultivating is fully formed it creates almost a barrier from other contams from setting up shop so to say. I may be wrong on this. but inoculation is the toughest part because if contams get in then they can overcome your mycilium, if your mycilium sets up shop and is allowed to fully establish its pretty difficult for other fungi (contams) to get in.
> 
> like i said i may be wrong so anyone feel free to correct me if im misunderstood.



You must be merciless - NO contamination on your grain ever. It will always overcome your mycelium and even if it does not it will get in between the casing and the grain and outrun your mycelium making a mess in the process and overwhelming your trays, your tote, you room and finally your house. If you see contamination in early stages throw it out no matter what, seal it up and throw it out. The only time you can manage trich contamination is if it occurs on the top of casing soil - either because your air flow was too slow or your PH was wrong - in that case and ONLY in that case you can scoop the offending green out and treat the wound with salt or baking soda solution, it will stop the infection if you are lucky and if you are not it will delay it until you can get that flush.

I am serious here - every occurance of sporulating mold will decrease your chances the next time. You can easily change the micro-ecology of your entire house in a matter of days and it will never ever be the same again. There are ways to slow this down with HEPA air cleaning systems but even that only slows the inevitable.


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## highfirejones (Feb 16, 2013)

right, what about an antimicrobial fog of some sort that circulates the house thru vents etc.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 16, 2013)

alright got the stuff to make my incubator....man why is it i can always find projects with my hobbies....

anyways hope this is it for now. going to do a video tutorial ill post the you tube link up here. 

going to do a mini fridge with a thermostat and light bulb type incubator. wish me luck. will also do a video tutorial on the glove box as i couldnt really find much on you tube for that. i found one guy but he used cardboard tubes for the arm holes and i dont like that idea...all plastic all the way. cardboard is too easily contamanated and the contams can sink into it and be really difficult to sterilize properly...that my opinion.


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## Jimmyjonestoo (Feb 16, 2013)

Good info here. Havnt grown any in years and hoping to do some soon. Probably gonna do casings this round. Canndo might be getting plenty of questions from me lol. When i was doing it i was going off the kits so it was basicly mix and let it sit. Didnt have much luck doing cakes so im hoping the casings will be easier.


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## Thundercat (Feb 16, 2013)

If you havn't started the incubator yet I think I can offer you another great option man. Very simple, very cheap and stable. Get 2 rubber maid totes whatever size you want put water in one with a fish tank heater in it, and set the other tote inside the first. The water will keep the top tote a very stable and perfect temp. I usually put a light blanket over the top of the lid to help hold in the warmth. I had to add a little water ever month or so but other then that it kept a perfect 82 degrees with little to no adjustment once I got it set. Just another thought for ya man it sounded like you were getting started on something already though.

I'm definitely building a glove box the next time around. I had good success without one, but I think it would help in the long run. Also the next time I set up I want it to be a bit more "correct" like a semi lab set up. Have an air scubber in the room and proper temp control, temps are what finished me last time, once summer started to hit I had no way to deal with the heat.


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## canndo (Feb 16, 2013)

highfirejones said:


> right, what about an antimicrobial fog of some sort that circulates the house thru vents etc.


No, most of them don't work all that well, I've been using one of the traditional ones but I am fairly certain it is just a mental thing and does no real good - except of course for the adherence principle.


90 percent or more of all spores and bacteria are not free floating, they adhere to particles of dander, pollen, dust, hair or whathave you - and those particals are rather large. If you spray something in the air in enough profusion you will cause the tiny droplets in the air to capture those particles and bring them to the ground where they represent much less hazard. I once owned an oil distribution machine that did just that - a heating coil vaporized the oil where it condensed as a fog in the room, taking all particulates with it. Because this oil was somewhat volutile, it would eventualy dissapate. I don't know if they still make them but they worked fairly well.


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## canndo (Feb 16, 2013)

Incubator? why? your mycelium will grow in a huge range of temperatures from the low 70's to the high 80's.


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## Thundercat (Feb 16, 2013)

In the research I had done on it before I started it seemed that about 81-82 was ideal for colonizing most strains I looked at. It also seemed that it would be an easy way to get a stable controlable temp area for them. When I grew it was winter so the rest of the house fluctuated alot with the weather and when the heat would turn on. That incubator gave me a nice dark spot that was always 81-82 degrees.


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## canndo (Feb 16, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> In the research I had done on it before I started it seemed that about 81-82 was ideal for colonizing most strains I looked at. It also seemed that it would be an easy way to get a stable controlable temp area for them. When I grew it was winter so the rest of the house fluctuated alot with the weather and when the heat would turn on. That incubator gave me a nice dark spot that was always 81-82 degrees.



I don't bother, I enable my room to be driven 15 degrees lower than abient and leave it at that. If it grows slower, fine, or I can simply heat the room itself. Nothing wrong with an incubator but for those with limited resources, it is lowest on the list. Now if you want to talk about an incubator for the micropropagation of marijuana that is a different story - if the cuttings stall for any length of time, they will simply hydrolize and die.


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## canndo (Feb 16, 2013)

I forgot something - in one case you are very right - flucuations in temperature will create condensation - you don't want condensation as it will create not only a trap for unwanted spores and microbes but create a steady stream of contaminated droplets into your grow.


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## Thundercat (Feb 16, 2013)

The condensation is bad, and I was also doing my best to ensure maximum colonization speeds. I was attempting to do the whole process from making syringes to harvesting fruits in under 30 days from the start. So i wanted the environment to be as perfect as I could get it. The totes I think cost me 3-5 bucks each and the fish tank heater I think was about 10 so very inexpensive and extremely effective. I kept my light outside my fruiting chamber as well to prevent it from messing with my temps inside much. If it did get below 70 in the chamber I could lower the light to warm it up a bit but normally it was about 3 feet above it just to provide enough.


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## canndo (Feb 16, 2013)

I am trying to get people to realize that the whole thing doesn't cost much. One doesn't REALLY need a glove box or a LAFH (the hood helps a lot though and you can get one for about 500 bucks). They don't need a fruiting chamber, I have grown mushrooms in jars with only a ziplock baggie as "fruiting chamber". Light can be abient. In short, all you really need for equipment is a case of jars, a pressure cooker and a mister.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 16, 2013)

great convorsation guys keeep it up!!

i love this.....people discussing and nod being asshats!!!

i am doing a incubator because i have a junk mini fridge and it cost me like 30 bucks...cant hurt right?

i totally agree with cando its not necesarry but im kinda a DIY type and i just happen to have this mini frdge laying around....if i didnt have it i wouldnt be doing this.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 16, 2013)

i have started my glove box. sealant needs to vur overnight so i went home. 

will be cleaning this mini fridge tomorow completly sanitizing every bit. Q tips will be used!!

collecting data and wil update pics soon. stil have a few days before spores get here


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 16, 2013)

Hey Matt, I think I'll join you on this shroomy journey of yours, thinking of ordering some spores and try my hand at growing some yummy shrooms.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 16, 2013)

hell you guys are making me want to order a new strain so i can have a fresh go along with you guys


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 16, 2013)

Poly I was thinking about growing shrooms since high school haha but never actually got around to grow any..this time around it seems like a perfect time and opportunity. Will try to do a cake or two and see how it go's.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 16, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Poly I was thinking about growing shrooms since high school haha but never actually got around to grow any..this time around it seems like a perfect time and opportunity. Will try to do a cake or two and see how it go's.


no cakes do 2 small beds of popcorn, cased with verm, or hell, get the grow bags off the net and fruit straight from the bag. with one print or syringe of spores you could produce any amount of mushrooms you want, thats really up to you, but, the idea is to you worth for your time.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 16, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> no cakes do 2 small beds of popcorn, cased with verm, or hell, get the grow bags off the net and fruit straight from the bag. with one print or syringe of spores you could produce any amount of mushrooms you want, thats really up to you, but, the idea is to you worth for your time.


Understood. Thank you, yeah I'll just have to follow what was said in this thread, I know Conndo mention popcorn in the first page of this thread so I'll just have to read more into it.
Will I get away with out having a PC?


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## polyarcturus (Feb 16, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Understood. Thank you, yeah I'll just have to follow what was said in this thread, I know Conndo mention popcorn in the first page of this thread so I'll just have to read more into it.
> Will I get away with out having a PC?


you wont get far growing mushrooms without a PC, yeah sure i could guide you a thousand ways to grow with out one... but that would be foolish. i would go with bags from the net this round and grab a PC in the future if you want to continue things, its just the most efficient way of doing things, doesnt cost that much either.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 16, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> you wont get far growing mushrooms without a PC, yeah sure i could guide you a thousand ways to grow with out one... but that would be foolish. i would go with bags from the net this round and grab a PC in the future if you want to continue things, its just the most efficient way of doing things, doesnt cost that much either.


Poly Thank you sir, got to read more into it  and you're saying bags? not really understanding that.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 16, 2013)

yeah lots of places online will sell sterile bags of substrate, you just inject some spore solutions, let them incubate, cut the top off the bag throw some verm or potting soil on top for a casing(pasteurized of course) and throw it in a high humidity ambient light area to fruit.

buying bags online is really effceint if you dont plan on growing a lot and dont want to fully invest, hell you could work with stuff ordered online only if you wanted to the only reason to make your own substrate is its more cost effcient, pressure cooker will pay for itself in one run, unlike some of these LED lights out there.


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## Thundercat (Feb 16, 2013)

The first mushroom kit I grew I ordered right off the pages of hightimes. That add about half way through everyone for mushroom grow kits has very discreet billing and shipping. The kit grew great and I was able to get 3 flushes with zero problems.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> If you havn't started the incubator yet I think I can offer you another great option man. Very simple, very cheap and stable. Get 2 rubber maid totes whatever size you want put water in one with a fish tank heater in it, and set the other tote inside the first. The water will keep the top tote a very stable and perfect temp. I usually put a light blanket over the top of the lid to help hold in the warmth. I had to add a little water ever month or so but other then that it kept a perfect 82 degrees with little to no adjustment once I got it set. Just another thought for ya man it sounded like you were getting started on something already though.
> 
> I'm definitely building a glove box the next time around. I had good success without one, but I think it would help in the long run. Also the next time I set up I want it to be a bit more "correct" like a semi lab set up. Have an air scubber in the room and proper temp control, temps are what finished me last time, once summer started to hit I had no way to deal with the heat.


yes, I am the same way. if there is something to improve my conditions i will improve them. a incubator seems like a worthwhile investment. will cost me about 2-3 hours of time and around 25 bucks. the thermostat was 20 bucks alone. then a light bulb and a socket and i have everything else on hand. seems like it will be worth it in the long run, may not be necessary but like i said earlier it really cant hurt. if anything it is going to make my setup just that much better.



canndo said:


> Incubator? why? your mycelium will grow in a huge range of temperatures from the low 70's to the high 80's.


I had a fridge on hand, 25 bucks and its made. personally i think its worth the small investment to be able to control my temps? you dont?



aCiDjEsUs said:


> Hey Matt, I think I'll join you on this shroomy journey of yours, thinking of ordering some spores and try my hand at growing some yummy shrooms.


hahaha, welcome aboard this ride m8, cant be a bystander huh? gotta get your hands dirty!! glad your going to give it a try. you going to journal it here or make another thread? your welcome to journal it here if you wish.



polyarcturus said:


> hell you guys are making me want to order a new strain so i can have a fresh go along with you guys


bette get to work cleaning up them contamed cakes and going a full clean  glad to have you along too, this should be an epic shroomery experience with 2 of my good cannabis horticulturist friends joing in.



aCiDjEsUs said:


> Understood. Thank you, yeah I'll just have to follow what was said in this thread, I know Conndo mention popcorn in the first page of this thread so I'll just have to read more into it.
> Will I get away with out having a PC?


Acid you can get a 6 quart PC for around 32 bucks, the 8 quart one is 43bucks at wall mart...definatly going to be a worthwhile investment and PC's have other uses besides mycology. people actaully cook in them!!



aCiDjEsUs said:


> Poly Thank you sir, got to read more into it  and you're saying bags? not really understanding that.


http://www.midwestgrowkits.com/spawn-bags.html

theres a site i found with a quick google search. you may want to wait for someone to give a known trusted site as i dont know this site and have never ordered from them.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

heres a pic of my incomplete glove box


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> yes, I am the same way. if there is something to improve my conditions i will improve them. a incubator seems like a worthwhile investment. will cost me about 2-3 hours of time and around 25 bucks. the thermostat was 20 bucks alone. then a light bulb and a socket and i have everything else on hand. seems like it will be worth it in the long run, may not be necessary but like i said earlier it really cant hurt. if anything it is going to make my setup just that much better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Matt you know it  You can't have all the fun by your self  

I'll drive around tomorrow and see if I can pick up a PC at some second hand store like Salvation Army, if I wont be able to find a used one I'll just pick a new one.

If you let me I might be just popping some pictures on you thread here, instead of starting a whole new thread. 

I'll order some spores today or tomorrow and I'll go from there. 

This whole weekend I spend on reading up on growing shrooms, watched few videos including one that you posted on first page of this thread, and I think I got a good idea of how this all works.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

of course your allowed to post pics on my thread. hit me up if you need help building a list of shit to get. 

as far as the pressure cooker goes make sure you inspect the rubber seal if your buying used. if its dried out at all dont buy it. The reason i suggest just buying new is it will last much longer than a used one and it is much safer. you have kids and shit running around and the last think you need is the lid blowing off of a superheated pressure cooker and potentially burning yourself or someone in the house. they can be dangerous so just buy wisely and dont grab the cheapest pos you find. remember that items at second hand stores dont always make it there because someone needed money, alot of shit people sell to them places is junk that "looks" like its in ok condition. 

be safe man.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> of course your allowed to post pics on my thread. hit me up if you need help building a list of shit to get.
> 
> as far as the pressure cooker goes make sure you inspect the rubber seal if your buying used. if its dried out at all dont buy it. The reason i suggest just buying new is it will last much longer than a used one and it is much safer. you have kids and shit running around and the last think you need is the lid blowing off of a superheated pressure cooker and potentially burning yourself or someone in the house. they can be dangerous so just buy wisely and dont grab the cheapest pos you find. remember that items at second hand stores dont always make it there because someone needed money, alot of shit people sell to them places is junk that "looks" like its in ok condition.
> 
> be safe man.


Thank you Matt, shit I was thinking about the same thing if I buy a used PC if it going to be fit for operation, and like you said I got a 9y/o running around lol...
Fuck it I'll just stop by kmart or walmart today and see what they got in stock and just get a brand new one instead of worrying if it's going to blow up or not.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

yeah i did the same thing, i looked around for a PC at the used stores, found one for 15 bucks but the rubber seal was all dry. so i went ahead and spent the money on a brand new one. peace of mind when it comes to safety of yourself and family is priceless. either way brand new or not though i wouldnt let the kid anywhere near the kitchen when your doing your PCing. steam flies out of them things like crazy and even normal operation can be a burn hazzard. i have a 9yo as well in the house so i know they arent really young and they know more than you think so i think you will be fine. but again safety first. 

bringing your kid to the ER for 2nd degree burns......"so what happened" 

"well i was cooking my substrate for my mushroom project" LOL


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

*bringing your kid to the ER for 2nd degree burns......"so what happened" 

"well i was cooking my substrate for my mushroom project" LOL 

* 
Man that wouldn't be funny at all LoL but it sounds funny hahahah 
I would have DCFS on my ass faster then cheetah lol..


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

I like the link for the bags, I see they are local and I got contact them and see if I can do some business with them in person instead of ordering from their page.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

yeah i know it wouldnt be funny....i was just joking man jeesh take it easy on me...... (a bit of sarcasm there  ) 

anyways keep me posted on how you make out. you gonna make a glove box?

the one i made cost about 20 bucks total, will have some pics of the completed box later tonight, i wanted to give the silicone a good day to dry up nice


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

yeah if your juts going to do a single run then the pre sterilized bags may be a better option for you. im setting up so i can pick it up whenever i need more. i believe the spore syrynges stay viable for a long time in the refridgerator,


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> yeah i know it wouldnt be funny....i was just joking man jeesh take it easy on me...... (a bit of sarcasm there  )
> 
> anyways keep me posted on how you make out. you gonna make a glove box?
> 
> the one i made cost about 20 bucks total, will have some pics of the completed box later tonight, i wanted to give the silicone a good day to dry up nice


Hahahaha Matt I was just joking! you know me better than that  

From looking at their page, they're selling jars already sterilized and ready for inoculation so I might just try that first, and just go from there.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 17, 2013)

pretty long time in the fridge ill be testing that factor soon, with some really old ones i think instead of ordering. the real fun part is isolation in agar, so far ive done 2 isolation's and one clone from a good mushroom, all the resulting flushes from those mycelium where the best out of any of my grows.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

i wont be doing anything that advanced yet. need to get one grow under my belt first. 

I have never really ate mushrooms before so im kinda excited to try em out. will prob start off with maybe 1-2g my first time. i dont want a full blown trip just a taste to see what its like. what do you guys think?


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

Hey guys what's the difference between spawn bags and jars? or there's non just the bags are bigger?


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> i wont be doing anything that advanced yet. need to get one grow under my belt first.
> 
> I have never really ate mushrooms before so im kinda excited to try em out. will prob start off with maybe 1-2g my first time. i dont want a full blown trip just a taste to see what its like. what do you guys think?


You going to love the way world looks through shroomy eyes  Matt to be honest I personally eat only around 3 to 6 grams on each trip, but I'm a skinny guy t only 155lbs so that's enough for me. 

Do maybe couple of caps at first and see how you like it and see if the intensity of the trip suites you


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Hey guys what's the difference between spawn bags and jars? or there's non just the bags are bigger?


so far from what i understand the jars need to be dumped into a fruiting chamber and then cased. the bags come already cased and once full inoculated you just open the bag and fruit right in the bag. 

i personally like the way the bags look, they have a neophrene injection site which looks pretty sweet. 

[video=youtube;kcim7YBITn0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcim7YBITn0[/video]


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## polyarcturus (Feb 17, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Hey guys what's the difference between spawn bags and jars? or there's non just the bags are bigger?


different substrates. but no difference really you could make a bag of anything or a jar of anything the size is the main difference, but really when it comes to bags you want something that is gonna form like a cake, jars are better for grain cause it supports the grain and keeps it stable while the mycelium grows around it.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 17, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> so far from what i understand the jars need to be dumped into a fruiting chamber and then cased. the bags come already cased and once full inoculated you just open the bag and fruit right in the bag.
> 
> i personally like the way the bags look, they have a neophrene injection site which looks pretty sweet.
> 
> [video=youtube;kcim7YBITn0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcim7YBITn0[/video]


well not exactly but yeah pretty much. popcorn will be bigger flushes, and more options, less spore solution needed and faster growth. bags are good. but limited at the same time. slower growth, no option to transfer, good flushes, but its a sterile substrate so limited survival time before contamination.

spawning into a pasteurized substrate to be colonized for 2 weeks before fruiting is the best way to grow, this will give you the most amount of contaminant resistant time to harvest and grow mushrooms, really a casing can even further this time.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

Thank you guys for explaining that.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

You guys think I can start with this stuff? I'm not planning on doing anything crazy so keep in that mind.


*Simple Mushroom Grow kit* 

6 Ultimate ½ pint substrate Jars- Pressure sterilized and ready to grow!
Growing and incubating chamber
Thermometer with Hygrometer/humidity gauge
2 Grow lights, one incandescent and one LED
1 Gallon of Perlite- Fine, imported, specially formulated horticulture grade
Hospital grade Latex Gloves
Alcohol swabs
Easy to follow growing guide with step by step instructions. Includes our secret tips, tricks and hints that other grow guides leave out. Includes how to incubate, how to fruit, casing methods, and quick way to dry your harvest in 24 hours
 Midwest Grow Kit's Simple Mushroom kit is a great place to start for the budget conscious grower. Our Simple kit is perfect for growing edible and exotic species of mushrooms.. We take you through the entire process from start to finish. The PF style substrate jars are specially formulated to grow faster, larger and quicker than any other kit out there! Growing has never been easier!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

you can buy all that and a pressure cooker for less than what they are asking right at wal mart. 

perilite 5 bucks
tote 5 bucks
gloves are cheap for a whole box its like 5 bucks. 
you can buy a digital thermomoter and hydrometer for 10 bucks
you can pick up a cheap LED light for 5 bucks thats 3x bigger than that dinky thing. 
alcohol prep pads are a dime a dozen
mason jars are 8 bucks for 12 1/2 pint jars
a bag of vermiculite is cheap but if you plan on using popcorn thats like 2 bucks a bag, i bought 4 bags and plan on having planty left over. 

so for under 50 bucks you can pick up everything in that kit at wal mart.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 17, 2013)

yeah its a decent kit, but you can throw it all together for less locally.

perlite at lowes, 4$
x2 tote at lowes 12$(one incubation one for fruiting
yellow glove 1$
91% iso 1.50$
air pump and stone 15$
wide mouth mason jars 8$
popcorn 6$
pressure cooker 50-100$
tyvec 0-10$
RTV 5$
drill and drill bit(a big nail could work i suppose) 20$
bale of straw 5$
spores 20$
neutra air air disinfectant 5$
paper towels 3$

so for about 150$ i could grow enough mushrooms to supply a city.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

use that kit to build a wal mart list. you realy dont need the lights unless you dont have a place with indirect lighting. but you said there was a window in your closet you grow in that should be fine. 

i dunno im no pro but i think a few things in that kit arent even needed. so for the price you pay for that you could just get a pressure cooker and have it for later projects.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

I got most of that stuff at home I even got TYVEC (tape and the paper) the only things I don't have is some verm. pc. spores.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

then why buy a expensive kit!!  

lots of good recipes for PC's too it dosent have to be just for sterilizing. can also get into canning if you ever grow out some veggies and want to save them for winter. 

up to you but everything i have read a PC is the first thing people wish they had got.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

I think my mother in-law have a PC she's does a lot of canning, I'm going there this afternoon so I'll check.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

there ya go man just borrow one. haha what you gonna tell her its for? or is she down with the mushies?

anyways i gtg be back later with more pics


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

Matt, that's the thing if she has one I don't know what to tell her lol and NO she very D.A.R.E person hahahah.

Anyway I'll keep you guys up to date. But for now Have a Nice and "Sunny" day!! Got to go and see them in-laws haha


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

Spores ordered  

 Alacabenzi - Psilocybe Cubensis I went with this one. 

And I only ordered one syringe for now.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

nice make sure you let them know what you want for a free syrynge or you may end up with a syringe of edible non halucinegenic ones.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> nice make sure you let them know what you want for a free syrynge or you may end up with a syringe of edible non halucinegenic ones.


Dude what free syringe? I know nothing about free syringe  did I just screwed my self? haha


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## Thundercat (Feb 17, 2013)

I hope they have some spores in them. The one time I ordered syringes I got a couple different types and non of them had many spores in them. When I make syringes from prints myself they are damn near completely purple with spores.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Dude what free syringe? I know nothing about free syringe  did I just screwed my self? haha


*Every order gets a free spore syringe!*
For a limited time we are offering a free spore syringe with every order.
To take advantage of this offer just make an order. You can leave a comment about what strain you want for the extra syringe. If you do not leave a comment we will include a random strain with your order.

just log in to you account and open a support ticket telling them what you want and they will update your order with the syringe of choice. thats what i did. they still havent shipped mine out yet  im going to open a ticket tomorow because i got 3-5 day shipping so they should be here by tuesday.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> I hope they have some spores in them. The one time I ordered syringes I got a couple different types and non of them had many spores in them. When I make syringes from prints myself they are damn near completely purple with spores.


yeah i hope so too lol. ill be making my own syringes after i get some mushrooms growing.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> *Every order gets a free spore syringe!*
> For a limited time we are offering a free spore syringe with every order.
> To take advantage of this offer just make an order. You can leave a comment about what strain you want for the extra syringe. If you do not leave a comment we will include a random strain with your order.
> 
> just log in to you account and open a support ticket telling them what you want and they will update your order with the syringe of choice. thats what i did. they still havent shipped mine out yet  im going to open a ticket tomorow because i got 3-5 day shipping so they should be here by tuesday.


Fok, how could I missed that, I must have been high or some shit...Matt thx buddy!! I owe you.


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## Thundercat (Feb 17, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> yeah i hope so too lol. ill be making my own syringes after i get some mushrooms growing.


If you look around online some of those companies sell spore prints not just syringes. Just thought I'd through it out there. Once you have your own going I vote take a ton of prints they are good indefinitely if they stay clean.


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## Hemlock (Feb 17, 2013)

subbed I'm just gettin into this. Great J


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

Hemlock said:


> subbed I'm just gettin into this. Great J


nice to have you along for the ride m8. m8 enjoy your stay.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

Done, I asked for a free syringe of golden teacher  will if they deliver


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

haha nice this is gonna be.....wait for it.............LEGENDARY


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

hopefully they are shipping these things out tomorow. i have just about everything done and ready for my spores.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> I hope they have some spores in them. The one time I ordered syringes I got a couple different types and non of them had many spores in them. When I make syringes from prints myself they are damn near completely purple with spores.


http://www.spores101.co/A-dark-spore-syringe-is-not-always-a-QUALITY-spore-syringe_b_2.html

heres a link on this subject right on the spores101 website. not sure how much truth there is to this but the company seems to get decent reviews.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 17, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> haha nice this is gonna be.....wait for it.............LEGENDARY


Dude I wont be surprised if our orders are going to be on the same plane haha


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## Thundercat (Feb 17, 2013)

I don't remember where I ordered from I don't think it was spores101 though I have used their site alot. I can say I never had a failure to colonize until I used a store bought syringe. I also hope the absolute best for you guys. I wasn't trying to scare anyone. I've seen them work fine for lots of people.

I'll have to read back through my journal and see where I ordered that batch of syringes from. In the mean time I did come across this, which is one of the companies I knew that carried the prints. http://www.thehawkseye.com/


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## canndo (Feb 17, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> you wont get far growing mushrooms without a PC, yeah sure i could guide you a thousand ways to grow with out one... but that would be foolish. i would go with bags from the net this round and grab a PC in the future if you want to continue things, its just the most efficient way of doing things, doesnt cost that much either.



Pressure cookers - have a value and place in your kitchen. Take your pot roast - how many hours cooking in a standard braising pot? how about 45 minutes in a pressure cooker. Beans? hours, pressure cooker? minutes.


If you like artichokes like I do - There is NO other way to cook them than in a pressure cooker for 12 minutes or so - really, you can boil them - and you get water logged flowers, you can microwave them and they get dry OR you can pressure cook them and always have perfectly cooked, firm, tasty flowers every time.


Once you start setting your mind on a pressure cooker mentality there is not end to the culinary uses it presents. I happen to have 5 of them but one will do. Oh, and some of you have LAND! you can grow things in the sort of abundance that supports canning (or... jarring). Damn it - DO so, the environment will love you, your tastebuds will, your friends and relatives will like you and it is simply a hobby that complements your other growing endeavors. Don't put up such a fuss about buying a pressure cooker folks.


----------



## canndo (Feb 17, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> heres a pic of my incomplete glove box
> 
> View attachment 2529230









I don't know how well that one will work dude - you are doing precision work and but your hands are in a position other than natural, it i s probably best to have your hands side by side.


----------



## canndo (Feb 17, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> of course your allowed to post pics on my thread. hit me up if you need help building a list of shit to get.
> 
> as far as the pressure cooker goes make sure you inspect the rubber seal if your buying used. if its dried out at all dont buy it. The reason i suggest just buying new is it will last much longer than a used one and it is much safer. you have kids and shit running around and the last think you need is the lid blowing off of a superheated pressure cooker and potentially burning yourself or someone in the house. they can be dangerous so just buy wisely and dont grab the cheapest pos you find. remember that items at second hand stores dont always make it there because someone needed money, alot of shit people sell to them places is junk that "looks" like its in ok condition.
> 
> be safe man.



I had a 32 qt cooker "explode" on me - at 15 lbs my wife opted to move the cooker and she accidently snapped off the emergency pressure release valve. It was my fault not hers (as I continued to tell her). I should replace the gaskets and seals every two years but I didn't. The seal became brittle and blew under maximum pressure - the cooker had more than 5 inches of water in it as well.


THAT was one of the most frightenig things I have encountered. If my wife had had her hand or arm over the vent she would have gotten 3rd degree burns over 5 or 6 percent of her body. The steam stream hit the ceiling and condensed instantly into a virtual rain storm. The floor of my kitchen and my dining room had 1/8th to 1/4 inch of water all over it (or so it seemed). there was no water left in the pot - the bags had all exploded leaving smeary kernels everywhere.

Be aware that if a pressure cooker has been over heated or if it has been dropped it is possible that microfractures can have been introduced into the aluminum and you may get a failure at below 15 lb. If that happens you WILL have a bomb going off in your kitchen. If the vessel is in good shape, either your weight (or spring assembly) will give way and you will get a directed stream of super heated steam - but it will be directed upward. If for some reason the weight vent is blocked then the relief valve will blow and you will still have only a directed stream but if the vessel fails, even at below 15 lbs, you will be very very sorry.

I now replace all seals and vents every year (of course between canning and mushroom stuff and micropropagation stuff I have my big cookers go many many hours)..


Be careful, be reasonable, and don't be afraid of spending a few extra dollars on your most essential tools.


----------



## canndo (Feb 17, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> i wont be doing anything that advanced yet. need to get one grow under my belt first.
> 
> I have never really ate mushrooms before so im kinda excited to try em out. will prob start off with maybe 1-2g my first time. i dont want a full blown trip just a taste to see what its like. what do you guys think?



That is a very big question. you will only have your first mushroom experience once. you can either dip your foot in the pool to check the temperature or you can dive in.


I am a diver, but not everyone is. Consider your alternatives carefully before you decide. The down side of taking too little is that you can actually have a bad experience. The down side of taking a larger dose is that you can..... have a bad experience. It has been my understanding however that the mushroom takes exception to those who grow their own and will more likely than not bestow upon the larger dose taker - a more profound and wonderful experience. Were I you, I would look toward 3 grams dry, perhaps a tiny bit more.


But again that is me, with the benefit of hindsight.


----------



## canndo (Feb 17, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Hey guys what's the difference between spawn bags and jars? or there's non just the bags are bigger?



I use jars only for experimental purposes, all of my bulk grows involve bags - I love bags. However, unless you are purchasing bags from a third party, you have to learn the art of pressure cooking bags - and it isn't always easy.


----------



## canndo (Feb 17, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> so far from what i understand the jars need to be dumped into a fruiting chamber and then cased. the bags come already cased and once full inoculated you just open the bag and fruit right in the bag.
> 
> i personally like the way the bags look, they have a neophrene injection site which looks pretty sweet.
> 
> [video=youtube;kcim7YBITn0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcim7YBITn0[/video]




No no no, that will defeat the process of casing - AND the process of shaking your spawn or substrate.


----------



## canndo (Feb 17, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> different substrates. but no difference really you could make a bag of anything or a jar of anything the size is the main difference, but really when it comes to bags you want something that is gonna form like a cake, jars are better for grain cause it supports the grain and keeps it stable while the mycelium grows around it.



Not quite, you can easily knead your bag so that you will have he equivelent of two or three or four quart jars of fully colonized spawn to do with what you please.


----------



## canndo (Feb 17, 2013)

Let us look at the spore syringe situation for a moment.


It is illegal to grow p. cubensis mushrooms in the United States - in ANY state you are liable for the illegal manufacture of a schedule I substance.


Your spore providers are aware of this. They also know that the production of syringes requires that someone somewhere actually produce fruiting bodies from which they take prints - and from those prints they produce their syringes. How wise is it to erect a web site advertising the legal sale of spores when they must probably be growing fruit in in their facility.


Not wise.

I don't know what they do to get their spore syringes but it is likely that they are growing the fruit in a place where the pressure is not so strong.


I have gotten syringes from different vendors that were contaminate. If you encounter a contaminated syringe yow will fail, it is impossible to do otherwise - IMPOSSIBLE. Yo can do everything right and you will still fail. I am not sure at all that syringes from different vendors do not all eminate from the same source. Be aware.

the only way you can indemnify yourself from this sort of failure is to do a test on agar, if the agar produces a pure growth then you know that syringe is pure, otherwise you are just going to have to hope that your vendor has done their due diligence.

I have encountered such contamination 4 different times, one of them with the sort of mushrooms you put on your pizza (admittedly - very exotic pizza).

So don't be too hard on yourself if you jump directly to spore (or multipoint) innoculation of grain.


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

canndo said:


> I don't know how well that one will work dude - you are doing precision work and but your hands are in a position other than natural, it i s probably best to have your hands side by side.


i thought about this and i thought it would be more difficult but the glove box is verry smal so i will be able to reach both sides with both hands. that being said i dont doubt your right. For now i will try it as is, if it fails its a matter of picking up anothe r10 bucks worth of stuff and making a new one. if i continue with this then i will probabally end up building a bigger one anyways and then i will put both on one side of the box. where this box is so small i thought my hands would be cramped up if i put them on the same side. 




canndo said:


> That is a very big question. you will only have your first mushroom experience once. you can either dip your foot in the pool to check the temperature or you can dive in.
> 
> 
> I am a diver, but not everyone is. Consider your alternatives carefully before you decide. The down side of taking too little is that you can actually have a bad experience. The down side of taking a larger dose is that you can..... have a bad experience. It has been my understanding however that the mushroom takes exception to those who grow their own and will more likely than not bestow upon the larger dose taker - a more profound and wonderful experience. Were I you, I would look toward 3 grams dry, perhaps a tiny bit more.
> ...


thanks for your insight on this. i plan on doing lots of research before i do them. i am a dip your toe in kinda guy lol i like to start small and work my way up if i feel comfortable. different strokes right? 3 grams dosent sound un reasonable. I do have some friends/family that have done them before and will probabally test drive them before i get the chance. so to see what kind of trip they get off an 1/8th will give me a better calibration of how much i should try my first go around.


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

canndo said:


> No no no, that will defeat the process of casing - AND the process of shaking your spawn or substrate.


i dont plan on using this, another member who is following the thread is looking for pre sterilized medium. someone mentioned bags so i tossed this video i cam across the other day out to give him more of a understanding of what the pre sterilized bags consisted of.


----------



## canndo (Feb 17, 2013)

Hey, if you can aquire a bunch of presterilized bags, go for it. I wouldn't do it but I happen to have everything I need to make my own.


----------



## Xrangex (Feb 17, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> alright got the stuff to make my incubator....man why is it i can always find projects with my hobbies....
> 
> anyways hope this is it for now. going to do a video tutorial ill post the you tube link up here.
> 
> going to do a mini fridge with a thermostat and light bulb type incubator. wish me luck. will also do a video tutorial on the glove box as i couldnt really find much on you tube for that. i found one guy but he used cardboard tubes for the arm holes and i dont like that idea...all plastic all the way. cardboard is too easily contamanated and the contams can sink into it and be really difficult to sterilize properly...that my opinion.


Dude, you've got to send me a link for DIY incubator! I gota mini fridge and my regular fridge can hold all the beer in there. Plus i get paid in 3 days and will be starting my grow soon


----------



## Xrangex (Feb 17, 2013)

canndo said:


> How wise is it to erect a web site...


Haha, websites cant get boners bro


----------



## polyarcturus (Feb 17, 2013)

you guys are really over thinking this incubation thing... ive been incubating at 65 degree all winter with no stunting im aware of may take a week longer to fully conlinized but ive never really noticed, i hear its makes for more potent shrooms doing thing at the lower temp spectrum.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

Xrangex said:


> Dude, you've got to send me a link for DIY incubator! I gota mini fridge and my regular fridge can hold all the beer in there. Plus i get paid in 3 days and will be starting my grow soon


im going over tomorow to start work on my fridge. im going to try and do a vid on it.

heres a diagram




if you have the fridge you need 

a piece of plywood to section off your light
a socket and bulb
a thermostat

and thats really it man


----------



## canndo (Feb 17, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> you guys are really over thinking this incubation thing... ive been incubating at 65 degree all winter with no stunting im aware of may take a week longer to fully conlinized but ive never really noticed, i hear its makes for more potent shrooms doing thing at the lower temp spectrum.



There are some who maintain that the slower the colonization and fruition of this mushroom the more potent. I don't believe it but you make a valid point here - lower temperatures only mean slower growth, nothing else, the mushroom is originaly "designed" to encounter and cope with low temps. The point is to relax as you have done - the contaminants, should there be any will be slowed as well as the mycelium, no change. All it costs is a little more time than someone who is cooking away at 85 degrees.


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

canndo said:


> There are some who maintain that the slower the colonization and fruition of this mushroom the more potent. I don't believe it but you make a valid point here - lower temperatures only mean slower growth, nothing else, the mushroom is originaly "designed" to encounter and cope with low temps. The point is to relax as you have done - the contaminants, should there be any will be slowed as well as the mycelium, no change. All it costs is a little more time than someone who is cooking away at 85 degrees.


i was thinking of setting my incubator to 80. not looking to push the bounderies and i hear 85+ it too hot. i also read that the mycelium produces at lest 2-4 additional degrees of heat so if i go 79-80 i should be in good standing right?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

anyways i been drinking all night...time to take a toke of the blue cheese and be done dadda lol


----------



## polyarcturus (Feb 17, 2013)

canndo said:


> There are some who maintain that the slower the colonization and fruition of this mushroom the more potent. I don't believe it but you make a valid point here - lower temperatures only mean slower growth, nothing else, the mushroom is originaly "designed" to encounter and cope with low temps. The point is to relax as you have done - the contaminants, should there be any will be slowed as well as the mycelium, no change. All it costs is a little more time than someone who is cooking away at 85 degrees.


yeah im lazy i know...


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## canndo (Feb 17, 2013)

Depends upon the ability of your substrate to dissapate heat. An inch and a half of live substrate will not show you much of an internal rise in temperatures. a 6 inch deep block of colonized straw will have trouble expelling that extra heat and the internal can rise more than your 2 to 5 degrees. A 12 inch deep block of rich compost will rise more than 8 degrees - of course such a substrate has it's own ways of coping - in that it will absorb the liquid that the mycelium exudes in reaction to high temperatures but you are still subjecting your grow to stresses it would be better off not encountering. Of course if you suplement your substrate you will be heating it up even more - suplemental oil, ground cotton seed meal, ground dent corn, microencapsulated nutrients introduced at spawn or pre-case will drive your temps very very high to the point where you must consider refrigeration. The results of such, if it is successful will be an 80 percent increase in yield - depending on surface area and tolerance for additional flushes.


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## canndo (Feb 17, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> yeah im lazy i know...



With mushrooms Poly, aside from cleanliness, lazy is good.


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## canndo (Feb 17, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> anyways i been drinking all night...time to take a toke of the blue cheese and be done dadda lol



No, now is the time for you to work, best get to it with washing down the walls using 10 percent bleach, now is the time to clean your floor and search for those bits of moldy cheese in your fridge - quick, there is much work to be done.


you can rest after you see pins.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

canndo said:


> No, now is the time for you to work, best get to it with washing down the walls using 10 percent bleach, now is the time to clean your floor and search for those bits of moldy cheese in your fridge - quick, there is much work to be done.
> 
> 
> you can rest after you see pins.


sir yes sir i will get right on that sir (sarcasm) 

fucking spores havent even been shipped yet....i have a incubator and glove box to finish/make...ill be hittingit hard tomorow after my beans come in the mail.

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^^ should be here tomorow. Whats funny is im more excited to see which T shirt i got than to get my beans lol. wont be sprouting any for at least 6 weeks


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## canndo (Feb 17, 2013)

View attachment 2530219View attachment 2530220View attachment 2530221View attachment 2530222View attachment 2530223View attachment 2530224View attachment 2530225View attachment 2530226View attachment 2530227


Look closely and you will see colonies of "mucor" growing from introduction from contaminated syringes. As you can see, you will be unable to isolate, even on a two dimensional surface, the mycelium from the contamination.

If you had put any of this solution into your grain you would have had an instant failure.








View attachment 2530228View attachment 2530229View attachment 2530230

The others are approaches to hybridization of mushrooms, the syringe liquid was diluted to the point where only a few spores are left in each cc and the tissue of each was transported into other dishes in order to find compatible mycelium and create a dychariotic combination that will fruit. You can see boundary lines between each culture indicating a difference in genetic material. When a dychariotic combination is reached it will most often overgrow the other mycelium but it is better to isolate that beforehand in yet another dish.

This is the method of getting the most production before one clones. It takes several generations of such isolation before yo can get a truely pure genetic result but the finished product is the only way to get the ultimate in production from unknown genetics.


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 17, 2013)

you are far beyond my point of understanding LOL

i will read this again tomorow


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## Thundercat (Feb 17, 2013)

Xrangex said:


> Dude, you've got to send me a link for DIY incubator! I gota mini fridge and my regular fridge can hold all the beer in there. Plus i get paid in 3 days and will be starting my grow soon


Check out my journal starting around page 10 for my mushroom grow, all DIY bulk casings for under $100 in 30 days

Also with this talk about the incubating I think its important to mention. DO NOT LET THEM GET OVER 86 I believe it is. From my understanding this will almost definitively kill the myc. I always shot for 81-82 and the way my incubator was built the temps NEVER fluctuated until it was over 80 degrees outside.

My vote on first trip is jump right in. I ate 3 grams my first time, not quite a whole 1/8. I am a fairly big guy, so 2.5 maybe if you are small, but my wife usually likes to eat between 3-4grams and she is pretty small so. It is all about mindset and setting. I find mushrooms to be rather spiritual 90% of the time, so I don't usually like being out in public, or other out of control type things. I have experienced an adrenalin rush o mushrooms and it was the worst experience I have ever had on them. So with those "experiments" behind me I greatly prefer to chill at home, and usually watch a FUNNY movie, or listen to music. I personally don't like more then 1-2 other people around but that may just be me I'm not real into having conversations while I trip. Mostly because its hard to focus on them. I've got friends that won't sit around and trip they always wanna go walkking and shit. Going for a walk can be fun, I personally prefer to do so in the woods or someplace you won't encounter alot of other people. Going for a morning walk at sunrise after a night of tripping can be a really beautiful thing. But other wise I usually have 2-3 movies and 3-4 blunts PRErolled a bottle of water and a sweat towel. Grind up the mushrooms to a powder and melt a chocolate bar, add mushrooms cool in the freezer and enjoy. Some times I'll grind to a powder and add to a shot of OJ and slam that, or if they are fresh I love putting them on a cheeseburger.

So theres my 2 cents, you guys are adding so many pages to this thread I don't have the time to keep up but I'm trying.

Peace TC


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 18, 2013)

canndo said:


> View attachment 2530219View attachment 2530220View attachment 2530221View attachment 2530222View attachment 2530223View attachment 2530224View attachment 2530225View attachment 2530226View attachment 2530227
> 
> 
> Look closely and you will see colonies of "mucor" growing from introduction from contaminated syringes. As you can see, you will be unable to isolate, even on a two dimensional surface, the mycelium from the contamination.
> ...


ok i think i understand a bit more, theres some terms i will need to look up because im familiar with the term but cant seem to define it. anyways from what i grasp your trying to isolate single spores/mycelium or single genetics, then from there you can pick and choose the best strain....almost like planting 10 seeds of the same strain and isolating the best as a mother and letting the rest finish. am i even remotly on track here lol.



Thundercat said:


> Check out my journal starting around page 10 for my mushroom grow, all DIY bulk casings for under $100 in 30 days
> 
> Also with this talk about the incubating I think its important to mention. DO NOT LET THEM GET OVER 86 I believe it is. From my understanding this will almost definitively kill the myc. I always shot for 81-82 and the way my incubator was built the temps NEVER fluctuated until it was over 80 degrees outside.
> 
> ...


thanks for sharing TC always appreciated. i want to trip in the woods with a couple friends. probabally eat them while theres still a good 6-8 hours of light left so im coming down when it gets dark out. 

I know what you mean about this thread adding too many pages...i didnt realize it was going to take off like this, only a couple days old and almost 200 posts lol. im glad everyone is participating though and we seem to have some good followers here and possibly 3 grows going to be going on simotaineously (spell hacked the fuck out of that word) so it should start to get fairly interesting in a few more days. 

it will be nice to have side by side comparisons so if one of us is progressing much faster we can think of what is going on differently between the grows and help each other out.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 18, 2013)

Matt just got an email from spors101 and they update my order, thx for the heads up once again


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 18, 2013)

Spores got shipped and picked up few things, I got a bag of vermiculite and some jars and tomorrow I'll pick up some perlite because it's going on sale tomorrow two 8qt bags for five bucks can't beat that lol.


I could only find these jars, they are Ball 1/2 pint (8oz) but regular mouth couldn't find any wide mouth ones. Will I have a problem birthing these cakes if all goes well? and plus they got some funky design on them lol. The opening of the jar is pretty big but it's not a wide mouth. 

Also tomorrow I'll be making some kind of a glow box, I think I got a good idea on how to construct one.


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## Thundercat (Feb 18, 2013)

With the regular mouth it would be hard to get it out of the jar as a cake, but easy to take it out and use it for a casing. All you need to do that would be more vermiculite and a couple jars of myc. Then make the casing in a tray and let it colonize for a couple days and case the top with vermiculite and fruit it. Huge yields!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 19, 2013)

those are the same jars i have. are you doing the PF tek? (rice flour and vermiculite) or the popcorn tek and casing in a bulk tub?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 19, 2013)

a friend of mine put this up on facebook. wish it had more explanation on these fungi, poisonous or not...edible or not...you knwo just some basic information. either way great pictures and cool fungi

http://imgur.com/a/eqFgO


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 19, 2013)

Matt, Thundercat I'm planning on doing PF tek just to get the hang of it you know, don't want to go crazy on y first time and fuck things up lol. 
I was just thinking about those jars  if not I can always return them, I know Ball doesn't make 1/2 paint wide mouth it's Kerri (I think that's how you spell it) that has 1/2pt wide mouth jars, but couldn't find any yesterday.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 19, 2013)

whatever floats your boat m8...actually will be nice to see you do the PF tek since i plan on going popcorn. 

my spores have been shipped and usps has recieved electronic notification of my shipment. hopefully by end of the day i can see where they are. maybe if im lucky they will be in tomorow. 

i have soooo much dam work to get done its not funny. still need to finish my glovebox and then get my incubator going. im 1/2 tempted to take the mini fridge to the local car wash to clean it out lol. it was my brothers and he had a case of slim fast explode in it about 4 years ago and it hasnt been touched since. a good ole powerwashing would do it good i think. 

i want to have everything ready so when i see that the spores will be in i can head over and PC my jars and get this adventure under way. im anxious to get some pics up of my process.


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 19, 2013)

oh and heres the newest addition to my family

jack russell terrier x beagle. his name is Taz. in the pic is also my 2 yr old choc lab who dosent know what to think of this little monster..she is taking well to him though. snapped at him once yesterday because he was trying to pick up her precious table scrabs the baby like to throw on the floor. other than that she has been a good girl.....not to get this little bastard house trained and get his balls cut off so he dosent feel the need to piss all over my place. He wont last long if he thinks my furniture is a toilet.


----------



## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 19, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> whatever floats your boat m8...actually will be nice to see you do the PF tek since i plan on going popcorn.
> 
> my spores have been shipped and usps has recieved electronic notification of my shipment. hopefully by end of the day i can see where they are. maybe if im lucky they will be in tomorow.
> 
> ...


Matt most likely I'll be doing PF tek just don't know about these jars  as for the spores I got the same notice


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 19, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> oh and heres the newest addition to my family
> 
> jack russell terrier x beagle. his name is Taz. in the pic is also my 2 yr old choc lab who dosent know what to think of this little monster..she is taking well to him though. snapped at him once yesterday because he was trying to pick up her precious table scrabs the baby like to throw on the floor. other than that she has been a good girl.....not to get this little bastard house trained and get his balls cut off so he dosent feel the need to piss all over my place. He wont last long if he thinks my furniture is a toilet.
> 
> View attachment 2532461


I've seen it yesterday  pretty nice addition buddy, I wish I had my own place so I could get a dog.


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## Thundercat (Feb 19, 2013)

I thiink it your gonna try the PF tek I would try to find wide mouth jars. I found some 1 pint wide mouths at the local meijer store that would make some beautiful cakes.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 19, 2013)

yes they also say to use the beveled? jars def if your doing the PF tek you want the right shape jars.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 19, 2013)

From what I read the wide mouth is about 3in wide at the opening and my jars are only 2.5in so I think I'll have to look for some wide mouth, I've seen 1pt jars wide mouth at the store but I thought 1pt is a bit big for a PF cake.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 19, 2013)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-media/product-gallery/B0000BYD0F/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_0?ie=UTF8&index=0


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 19, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Spores got shipped and picked up few things, I got a bag of vermiculite and some jars and tomorrow I'll pick up some perlite because it's going on sale tomorrow two 8qt bags for five bucks can't beat that lol.
> View attachment 2531776View attachment 2531778View attachment 2531779
> 
> I could only find these jars, they are Ball 1/2 pint (8oz) but regular mouth couldn't find any wide mouth ones. Will I have a problem birthing these cakes if all goes well? and plus they got some funky design on them lol. The opening of the jar is pretty big but it's not a wide mouth.
> ...


i think these jars are fine...as long as the mouth is bigger than the rest of the jar it should work...


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 19, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> i think these jars are fine...as long as the mouth is bigger than the rest of the jar it should work...


Only Way to find out rite?


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 19, 2013)

This is what I want to use as my glove box.  any thoughts would be nice


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## polyarcturus (Feb 19, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> This is what I want to use as my glove box. View attachment 2532484 any thoughts would be nice


measure the inside get some pvc and some side outlet elbows. youll be in business. what i see the the mine problem being is the glove holes(go from the front not the sides!) you will need to cut some slits and reinforce them with duct tape or something/ the other issue i see with this design is cleaning it since its not a solid surfce, you may need to dismantle it every time you have to clean it.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 19, 2013)

oh and your jars will work fine, you cakes just wont slide out, i use the same types of jars cause its what was available at the time i got them(i now have a mix of jars) but there will be a vaccumm that holds the cake in.:/ so you kinda have to slam out the cake with some skill, so as not to crumble it..... but this is just another reason to use popcorn and small trays and case them with potting soil.....


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 19, 2013)

Poly LoL that was my plan go to home depot or lowes pick up three 2' pvc pipes with 4 brackets for the pvcs and make a little scaffold inside that so it will keep the shape that I want.
I didn't cut the glove holes yet its just the plan, so I'll put the holes on the side.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 19, 2013)

use 1/4" pvc easier on your pocket, you not trying to hold you weight lol.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 19, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> use 1/4" pvc easier on your pocket, you not trying to hold you weight lol.


Poly awesome buddy, Thank you sir.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 19, 2013)

will you just do popcorn its fucking easy.

PC popcorn 1 hour
cool, inoculate 1day
germinate/incubate 2weeks
spawn(dump popcorn) into dish cover with potting soil place in fruiting chamber 5min
wait for fruit 2 weeks.
havest and enjoy. doesn't get any simpler than that. pf tek is pretty simple but corn just puts out more and bigger mushrooms.


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## fookey (Feb 19, 2013)

Got some Taz and GT LC ready to go, open air innoc'ed (ohh nooo) some PF Tek cakes as a test, will find out how badly it turns out by the end of the week. I hate working in glove boxes, so if I get contam I'll end up testing with just a clear garbage bag next time.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 19, 2013)

fookey said:


> Got some Taz and GT LC ready to go, open air innoc'ed (ohh nooo) some PF Tek cakes as a test, will find out how badly it turns out by the end of the week. I hate working in glove boxes, so if I get contam I'll end up testing with just a clear garbage bag next time.


ive done quite a few things in open air. its all a matter of method, i wish you luck but its probably comtamed lol. working in the glove box is a major PIA.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 19, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> will you just do popcorn its fucking easy.
> 
> PC popcorn 1 hour
> cool, inoculate 1day
> ...


Poly I sure will use popcorn down the road, but this time around (don't get mad ) I will just use PF so I can get the hang of it and I can go from there.
I had a PC from my friend but by closely inspecting the PC the rubber seal was all fucked up so I nicely said thank you but no thanks, so now I got to wait for some mulla to come in from uncle Sam so I can go and pick a brand new PC.


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## fookey (Feb 19, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Poly I sure will use popcorn down the road, but this time around (don't get mad ) I will just use PF so I can get the hang of it and I can go from there.
> I had a PC from my friend but by closely inspecting the PC the rubber seal was all fucked up so I nicely said thank you but no thanks, so now I got to wait for some mulla to come in from uncle Sam so I can go and pick a brand new PC.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000BYCFU/


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 19, 2013)

Any of you guys from the sates did your taxes with e-file and direct deposit into your account? I just want to find out how long does it usually take to get the $ into the account, it's our first time doing direct deposit into the account. 

Sorry for getting so Off Topic.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 19, 2013)

fookey said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000BYCFU/


Fookey cool cool, thank you for the link. But I think I'll just pick one up locally like from Sears or K-mart.
I found one on craigslist.com brand new one, digital for $65.


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## fookey (Feb 19, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Any of you guys from the sates did your taxes with e-file and direct deposit into your account? I just want to find out how long does it usually take to get the $ into the account, it's our first time doing direct deposit into the account.
> 
> Sorry for getting so Off Topic.


Took about a week. Was really fast. Unfortunately for me, it's going to bills from previous purchases, not new ones .


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 19, 2013)

Acid, when you go PVC shopping pick up some a larger piece of PVC to use for your glove holes. then just cut a small slit in thet bag and force ith through. the material should stretch to create a nice tight fit around the pieces of PVC. then use some kind of adhesive to completly seal it. other than that i think with some good ole inginuity that comforter bag should work well.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 19, 2013)

fookey said:


> Took about a week. Was really fast. Unfortunately for me, it's going to bills from previous purchases, not new ones .


Ohh shit that is fast! Sorry to hear about your situation, actually I'm on similar boat as you are  My wife said that I can use around $400-500 and that's it haha rest is staying in the bank. I spend similar amount of money last year to get me started on growing my own herb.  so this year I got to take it easy haha.

Matt sorry for all these post off topic, hope you're not mad bro


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 19, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> Acid, when you go PVC shopping pick up some a larger piece of PVC to use for your glove holes. then just cut a small slit in thet bag and force ith through. the material should stretch to create a nice tight fit around the pieces of PVC. then use some kind of adhesive to completly seal it. other than that i think with some good ole inginuity that *comforter bag* should work well.


Good eyes buddy good eyes  yeah I'll just take a look at your glove box and I think I'll get the idea  or I can just cut small slits in that plastic get two glows and just seal the gloves around the slits.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 19, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Ohh shit that is fast! Sorry to hear about your situation, actually I'm on similar boat as you are  My wife said that I can use around $400-500 and that's it haha rest is staying in the bank. I spend similar amount of money last year to get me started on growing my own herb.  so this year I got to take it easy haha.
> 
> Matt sorry for all these post off topic, *hope you're not mad bro *



HAHAHA you mad bro? im not mad, who is mad....you look mad...IM NOT FUCKING MAD!!!!

lol nah i dont care man


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 19, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> HAHAHA you mad bro? im not mad, who is mad....you look mad...IM NOT FUCKING MAD!!!!
> 
> lol nah i dont care man


I'm rarely mad  if I get mad I just go to a shooting range pop few off and I'm good as new


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## Thundercat (Feb 19, 2013)

My taxes should be here in another 2 days which will make it about 14 days. I think I'm gonna spring and buy 2 of the bag kits from hightimes again. I can stick those some place out of the way and not have to worry about them. It won't be as fast as my full setup (under 30 days start to tripping) but last time I got some decent yields.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 19, 2013)

Thubdercat buddy would be able to past the link for the bags? I would like to take a look at them.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 19, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> My taxes should be here in another 2 days which will make it about 14 days. I think I'm gonna spring and buy 2 of the bag kits from hightimes again. I can stick those some place out of the way and not have to worry about them. It won't be as fast as my full setup (under 30 days start to tripping) but last time I got some decent yields.


welcome to post pics here m8, this is going to be a collage of different style grows its going to be great. also a good learning tool for newcomers to the hobby to be able to see the different tek's all in one place.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 19, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> I'm rarely mad  if I get mad I just go to a shooting range pop few off and I'm good as new


by the "shooting range".. you mean the bathroom right?


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## Thundercat (Feb 19, 2013)

http://www.homesteadbook.com/store/ez-gro-mushroomkit-p-141.html I used the page out of hightimes to order them last time, but that is the website. I could set up a whole bulk casing grow for the price of them. However with the kit you literally don't have to do much and no PC everything is already done. There is an isolated q tip with spores on it that you untie a knot and it falls into the bag of grain. You shake it around and let it set in a warm spot for a few weeks. Once it is completely colonized you break it up in the bag and mix it into a bag of pasturized bulk substrate. Let that colonize a few days/a week depending and then fruit it. I got 3 flushes last time of some nice blue meanie shroomies.


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## canndo (Feb 19, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> ok i think i understand a bit more, theres some terms i will need to look up because im familiar with the term but cant seem to define it. anyways from what i grasp your trying to isolate single spores/mycelium or single genetics, then from there you can pick and choose the best strain....almost like planting 10 seeds of the same strain and isolating the best as a mother and letting the rest finish. am i even remotly on track here lol.




Yes, the first row of pictures illustrates the possiblity of contaminated syringes - there is no other way those dishes could have been contaminated owing to the dispersion - which exactly mirrors the flow of the original solution. I posted this to show that your failures may not be because of your own actions. Another reason for multiple syringes.

the others are what you say, I was looking for superior genetics - indicated by speed of growth, speed of germination, "loft" - or hight of growth, and most importantly the the tendency of the mycleium to create "ryzomorph" or strandy, ropey and distinct "fingers" of invasive growth. In general the more of this you see the better your crop will be. A result of this search (about 5 years ago) was a strain that produced fields of "bubbles", within each quarter to half an inch bubble were dozens of pins all of which broke the "skin" of the bubble at the same time resulting in perhaps 20 pins per square inch all across the substrate - most of which matured. I believe some pictures were posted. This was discovered after about 20 different combinations were brought to fruit. The fruit were quite large and not "hollow" in the stems, they also did not blue but "green"ed, in that the brusing was a distinct bright green.


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## canndo (Feb 19, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Matt, Thundercat I'm planning on doing PF tek just to get the hang of it you know, don't want to go crazy on y first time and fuck things up lol.
> I was just thinking about those jars  if not I can always return them, I know Ball doesn't make 1/2 paint wide mouth it's Kerri (I think that's how you spell it) that has 1/2pt wide mouth jars, but couldn't find any yesterday.



<sigh> now why would you think that using another method would be more conducive to "fucking things up"? Sure enough the guy that invented this in order to sell syringes did a heck of a job.

Do yourself a favor and look at my "tek" before you get too far along - it does not require any particular sort of jar (even if I said quart).


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## Thundercat (Feb 19, 2013)

I felt the same way about PF tek, thats why I chose to avoid it. You can get way better results and yields with no extra work by doing the casings. I've read great things about the popcorn, I decided on wild bird seed after a bunch of reading, and had great results. They are both cheap and effective.


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## canndo (Feb 19, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> I felt the same way about PF tek, thats why I chose to avoid it. You can get way better results and yields with no extra work by doing the casings. I've read great things about the popcorn, I decided on wild bird seed after a bunch of reading, and had great results. They are both cheap and effective.


If your avatar or whatever you call that user id picture is yours, then you have the creds, now don't you - looks like you cased with a high percentage of coir or peat in that pic.


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## Thundercat (Feb 19, 2013)

That is one of my favorite strains, thats a tray of Koh Samoi from thailand. I used course vermiculite to make the casing, at about 50/50 with my myc, then used about a 1/4 inch of verm to case the top. I was using between 3-4 1/2 pint jars I wanna say per tray. I had great success with those Koh Samoi, and a russian strain called Ereal. I tried growing Burmas which grew very slow and had small yileds, and I tried some south americans which only grew a few fruit but they were huge and the trip was very visual. The ereals and KS both filled the trays several times with flushes like my picture.


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## technical dan (Feb 19, 2013)

Hows it going Matt, Acid mind if I join in on this thread? I'm about to start my first attempt at providing habitat for shrooms I'm just waiting on the spores now.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 19, 2013)

welcome aboard m8 take a seat, post your progress and lets learn!!

I got my incubator done...pics later gotta run..


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 20, 2013)

What's good Dan? 
Been a while? shit everyone is starting on some shrooms haha awesome, and like Matt said grab a seat, grab a bowl of your finest herb and Let's Learn! about this new hobby of ours


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## technical dan (Feb 20, 2013)

Thank you for the warm welcome matt and like you said it will be very cool to see all these run together. Got my glove box and some jars (still gotta make a couple more), and my "economy terrarium" from the shroomery tek. Waitin on the spores my order has been "processing" since the 11th. 




Acid: Blue mammoth coming down in 2sih weeks Im lookin forward to that, supply's getting down , I'm also excited to get this project moving. It has been a bit my computer wasn't working for a month or so and even after that I was away for a bit. But since/ during researching for the mushies Ive found myself back by the keyboard. 

Subbed up, bout to roll one up, and ready to learn.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 20, 2013)

technical dan said:


> Thank you for the warm welcome matt and like you said it will be very cool to see all these run together. Got my glove box and some jars (still gotta make a couple more), and my "economy terrarium" from the shroomery tek. Waitin on the spores my order has been "processing" since the 11th.
> View attachment 2534040View attachment 2534041
> 
> 
> ...


barneys farm blue mammoth? auto? just planted 2 of them beans...ill be by your journal!!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 20, 2013)

i cooked my corn tonight, got it drying in a t shirt for a bit. got to test out the pressure cooker

heres the incubator i built..


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## technical dan (Feb 20, 2013)

Yep barney's blue mammoth auto, but I dont have a journal. I put a couple pics up here : https://www.rollitup.org/auto-flowering-strains/485873-auto-flower-bud-porn-19.html . The camera is shitty and does not focus so well but you get the idea.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 20, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> i cooked my corn tonight, got it drying in a t shirt for a bit. got to test out the pressure cooker
> 
> heres the incubator i built..
> 
> View attachment 2534606View attachment 2534628View attachment 2534623View attachment 2534625View attachment 2534608View attachment 2534612View attachment 2534613View attachment 2534614View attachment 2534615View attachment 2534617View attachment 2534620View attachment 2534621View attachment 2534622View attachment 2534607


Matt looks awesome! did you already test drive it?


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 20, 2013)

Guys can someone for fok sakes tell me the difference between tapered and non-tapered jars? I've been looking, reading and still can't get it....Thank you


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## polyarcturus (Feb 20, 2013)

] [ vs \ /

lol


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## polyarcturus (Feb 20, 2013)

regular is parallel sides 


taper gets smaller at the botom= wide mouth.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 21, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Matt looks awesome! did you already test drive it?


yeah i have it running right now....seems to not want to hold a steady 81 when set to 81...need to mess with the knob untill it holds a good temp.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 21, 2013)

Poly, finally!! Fuck am I that dumb haha Thank you for explaining that in a way I could understand


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 21, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> yeah i have it running right now....seems to not want to hold a steady 81 when set to 81...need to mess with the knob untill it holds a good temp.


Matt you think you be able to keep it at 81? I was thinking if it would make a difference if instead of using analog thermostat to use digital one, you think it would be more reliable? and keep the temps steady at 81? Just a thought


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 21, 2013)

i thought about using a digital one but i really dont have any more funding for this project. gonna just have to mess with the analag one and get it to where i want. my buddy called me this am and said that the temp way 82 and the light was off. im going to be getting a small LED and the stuff to wire up a LED light on the outside of the incubator so i know when the CFL inside is on.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 21, 2013)

Matt great idea on that LED . I'm thinking about TiT, or just leave them outside somewhere on the shelf, my house is at constant 66F so it might take a bit longer with out an incubator but I still should be fine, I know it's not an optimal temp I just got to live with it haha.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 21, 2013)

hmmm, place the box inside your grow room.

temps in there are a bit more ideal, just use a small cardboard box and closeit up nice so no light gets in.


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## Thundercat (Feb 21, 2013)

Did no one look at the tote incubator I told you about? I know that the incubator is unnecessary but its a easy cheap way to improve the environment. The tote incubator I built cost me less then $15 total. 2 totes whatever size you want, water and a fish tank heater. HOlds temps perfectly.


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## technical dan (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm planning on getting a styrofoam cooler (if I can find the right size) from the grocery store and putting my jars in that while they colonize to see if I can bump the temp up a few degrees. The myc. will put off some heat as it grows/ metabolizes and so Ill try and capture/ hold some of that and then open the cooler daily to allow fresh air in to the cooler for GE.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 21, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Did no one look at the tote incubator I told you about? I know that the incubator is unnecessary but its a easy cheap way to improve the environment. The tote incubator I built cost me less then $15 total. 2 totes whatever size you want, water and a fish tank heater. HOlds temps perfectly.


i did look at that but i had to go above and beyond....mainly because i had that old pos fridge sitting outside my house for over 2 years now and it was a good excuse for me to get rid of it. i dont see how the double tote thing costs less than 15 bucks. totes alone for really small ones are 5 bucks each and a fish tank heater has got to be close to 10 bucks...

i really didnt spend much money at all on this fridge incubator. 20 bucks for the thermostat was really the only expense. i did buy a couple of "novelty" items for it like a digital indoor/outdoor themostat/hydrometer but i needed that for the FC anyways. i also bought a small LED light that ill be hooking up tonight that will indicate that the light inside is on or off so i wont habe to open the incubator to check and see if the light is turning off at the correct temps. i really should have spent the extra 10 bucks on a digital thermostat but live and learn. maybe one day when i have a few extra bucks ill upgrade but for now i think its good the way it is. 

is the mini fridge incubator "ideal" for the average guy...no i would say not especially if they dont have a junk mini fridge kicking around. but where i already had the most expensive part of the project it was a good choice for me i think.


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## Thundercat (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm not trying to mock your mini fridge, you were just already having trouble keeping it at the right temps. I also see other guys talking a bout building this stuff, and wanting to start the project. The totes you can get for 3-5 dollars depending on the size My heater I think was 7-10 bucks. Sorry if I exaggerated when I said less then 15, less then $20 for sure though. In your case the fridge worked because you had it I wasn't trying to sound aggressive or offend anyone. I realize you only spent about 20 and you obviously like building stuff so more power to you man. I try to keep most things as KISS as possible, and eliminate extra things that can fail.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 21, 2013)

nah man i didnt take it that way, but i wanted to explain for everyones sake why i did the mini fridge. and its not that im having troubles keeping it at the right temp i just think theres a few kinks that can be worked out to improve the stability of the temps. right now its maintaining temps between 78-82 which i dont think is bad at all. 

the biggest problem is its an analog thermostat which works great but 70 on the dial may not be exactly 70 so i just need to play with setting the thermostat to get my optimal temprature. i also added a PC fan that isnt exactly blowing alot of air from the heating chamber to the incubation chamber so i need to open that up a little more to help with airflow. 

but i do agree with you that the double tote and aquarium heater method is probabaly more suitable for most people...but like you said earlier i like building shit  if i can DIY i will for sure. even if it costs me more sometimes lol....

and sorry to nit pick your price estimate it wasnt meant to call you out just thinking about the items didnt seem correct. either way these things always end up costing a little more than planned so always budget a little extra just in case something comes up. and with the aquarium and tote method its a good idea to buy some form of temprature meter so that you can get temps right where you want them. i dont care for the mercury based thermometers but thats my personal opinion. you can pick up a decent digital for around 8 bucks and i personally feel that is money well spent.


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## Thundercat (Feb 21, 2013)

I agree with the digitals, I started with a thermometer I found in my basement, and then upgraded a few weeks into the project. When I got my project going I literally spent the last of the money me and the old lady had for about 4 days to buy all the stuff to get started. It wasn't a ton of money, but I feel ya on the whole budget thing. This is one project that can rapidly pay for itself though. Oh and 78-82 is not bad at all, that myc should be nice and happy.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 21, 2013)

we will see. spores should be in tomorow...got lots to do!!

going to get some high temp black paint and just paint that CFL bulb so i can get rid of all the crap in the incubator thats blocking light. i figure the CFL will prob put out more heat being painted black anyways.


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## Killua (Feb 21, 2013)

I ordered my syringes from thesporedepot on monday and got them today, 2syringes $14 including S/H. Yay!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 22, 2013)

mine were not in the posts today....sad face


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## polyarcturus (Feb 22, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> mine were not in the posts today....sad face


that sucks, mine took a month before i got mine recently.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 22, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> mine were not in the posts today....sad face


Matt, shit...that blows buddy, so if you didn't get yours I don't think I'll get mine either..tracking stopped two days ago on the 20th all it said that my package departed their sort fac. in Kent WA., and that's not good lol because last night I got my jars ready, steamed and shit now they're all cool and ready to be inoculated.

So here comes my question, how long the substrate in jars can stay that way with out having doing the steaming process all over again?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 22, 2013)

good question...i dont know. 

i boiled my corn and shit and all my jars are ready for the PC when my spores come in. still have some work to fo on the mini fridge incubator...got a lil drunk last night and didnt get much acomplished except germinating a headache for today  


anyways at least my ballst should be here today so i can get some shit done with that.. will post pics later. got the LED workign on the mini fridge and need to find some high temp spray paint...wish me luck!! lol

you might get yours todayas im much further from WA than you are.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 22, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> good question...i dont know.
> 
> i boiled my corn and shit and all my jars are ready for the PC when my spores come in. still have some work to fo on the mini fridge incubator...*got a lil drunk last night and didnt get much acomplished except germinating a headache for today  *
> 
> ...


Hahah it happens  

Yeah but if the package didn't catch a ride on the plane then it had to go ground and parts of Midwest is under 18in of snow, and I know most of the flights in and out of the airport were cancelled due to bad weather last night. So if anything I'll steam them bitches again, just don't know about the substrate drying out in the jars or that likely wont happen?

pS: I know my local K-Mart has a black high temp. spray paint. I don't think you'll have an issue finding one. But GL anyway


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 22, 2013)

I found this the other day.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 22, 2013)

How long can substrate stay in the jar before it starts to dry out? I made one batch of jars last night, and one batch today in the morning, I don't mind steaming them again I'm just worrying about the substrate becoming dry. So this question is for the seasoned mycologists out there


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## polyarcturus (Feb 22, 2013)

weeks. i used popcorn that had been sitting in the jar(tyvek and holes in top for ventilation) for 4 weeks worked just like they where new. my jars tend to be a little more saturated than most probably.

ive also used pasteurized substrate that had been sitting in a gallon bag, unzipped of course just had to top folded over,for 2 months with out contamination when i spawned to it, got contaminated from air flow from the grow tho.:/

its pretty much inactive once you get it where you want and if you dont really fuck with it and put it in a stable place nothing will really happen.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 22, 2013)

so my spores are in my state now. should be in in the AM and will get this project rolling.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 22, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> so my spores are in my state now. should be in in the AM and will get this project rolling.


Lucky You  Shit mine didn't made it today  and no movement on my tracking either..Matt did yours move at all?


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## technical dan (Feb 23, 2013)

Good to hear matt. GL acid hope you get the word soon. My were just sent out from Ore. tracking is saying they'll be here on monday!


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 23, 2013)

technical dan said:


> Good to hear matt. GL acid hope you get the word soon. My were just sent out from Ore. tracking is saying they'll be here on monday!


Thanks Dan, mine should be here today "Your item is out for delivery at 9:32 am on February 23, 2013"


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 23, 2013)

well got my spores in and headed out this AM. have been busy today. will get to pics in a few right now im just not feeling it. jars are all inoculated, hope i did well.


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## Thundercat (Feb 23, 2013)

Well now the wait starts, good luck man I hope it works awesome for ya. How many jars did you end up doing up, just the golden teachers?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 24, 2013)

i did 12 1/2 pint jars of golden teacher. going to do 6 pans if all of them turn out well but im expecting some contamed jars as this is my first go at it and my glove box did not work out as planned. the style worked fine but the adhesive i used to glue the glove collars on didnt hold because the gloves were way too small for my hands and i had to use excessive force to get my hands in. used a string bleach water solution on everything though and still used the gloves and box but it wasnt as sealed as i would have liked it. ill get some pics up in a little bit i have lots of them.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 24, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> i did 12 1/2 pint jars of golden teacher. going to do 6 pans if all of them turn out well but im expecting some contamed jars as this is my first go at it and my glove box did not work out as planned. the style worked fine but the adhesive i used to glue the glove collars on didnt hold because the gloves were way too small for my hands and i had to use excessive force to get my hands in. used a string bleach water solution on everything though and still used the gloves and box but it wasnt as sealed as i would have liked it. ill get some pics up in a little bit i have lots of them.


Awesome Matt, I also knocked up 10 of my jars with both of the strains (5each) so will see if anything happens, I'm most likely will see some conta. but like you said it's out first time 
LoL Matt I had the same problem with my glows I had a hard time to put them but some how I managed to get the 10 jars knocked up. So know we just got to wait.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 24, 2013)

i ended up using 1 whole syringe and partial of another. my plan was to knock up 12 jars with one syringe but its difficult to be precise in that tiny glovebox so i had to bust out the other syringe.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 24, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> i ended up using 1 whole syringe and partial of another. my plan was to knock up 12 jars with one syringe but its difficult to be precise in that tiny glovebox so i had to bust out the other syringe.


My first jar got around 1cc in one hole lol I pressed the syringe to hard and BAM but on the other ones I was more careful and I think I got it rite, you rite working in a glove box is kinda pain in the ass, maybe next time I'll just get a big ass plastic tote and work with that will see...


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 24, 2013)

ok so heres some pics, really nothing special. hope i didnt overdo the bleach water solution.


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## wannagrowsum (Feb 24, 2013)

Hi Retired. I grew some GTs a few years ago and they were awesome. I didn't use a glove box. I read a technique of turning an oven on (I don't remember the temp, but it wasn't too hot) keeping the oven door open, and working right in front of it. The idea was that the heat kept any germs from coming down into your work area. I only did two at first in case I screwed up.

I put the cakes in a plastic ice chest with a fishtank heater submersed in a large glass of water. Innoculation quickly took place (relatively). For me, that was the easy part. I then put the cakes in a plastic bin. This is where I had my main problem. I saw a technique of drilling a bunch of holes in a plastic bin and filling the bottom with perlite. The cakes would not fruit. I think I had them in there for close to a month with no results. I had a hydrometer and the humidity readings would never get high enough (I don't remember what they were now). I lived in a humid enviroment at the time maybe this had something to do with it? One cake went bad and I had to throw it out. Desperation led me to research outdoor cultivation. At the time there was little info on outdoor cultivation. I finally found one post that had a technique. I had to make layers of hay and cow manure (organic only) and break up my remaining cake and spread it in. I picked a shady spot. I would lightly water the area every morning. A week later I saw this:


Almost a week later I had this:


And here was my first harvest, minutes before ingestion. It was about 2 1/2 grams. They say a Hero's dose is around 5, but two and a half were enough to blow my mind. (I'll tell you a little about that in another post).


A week later I had a second flush:


I got a third flush, but it was a smaller harvest.

I then innoculated more cakes. I got another plastic tub for fruiting. This time I only put a couple of holes in the top. I put wet perlite in. I still had to put 2 glasses of water in with airstones to help get the humidity up. Even with all that, I had to spray the sides twice a day and keep the air conditioning on in the room. I don't know why I had such a hard time with humidity. But I finally got indoor results:


The flat part that is at the bottom of the frame was the first growth. I guess I had the cake upside down, because it was growing on the bottom. I turned it around but alas, it was too late for that one. Here's what I got:


And a few more:


Good luck on your journey. The Golden Teachers will certainly teach you, even more so because you will have had a relationship with them by that time. Let us know how it goes.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 24, 2013)

hey man....looks like you had a rough start but seems like determination and persistance paid off for you. im sure each grow you do afterwards will only be better. 

it seems what you did with the straw and manure is a form of "casing" which is what im going to be doing. maybe look into the popcorn tek and try doing it without the cakes in a bulk grow. using a casing of your choice..from what the guys on here have said this is how you produce more quanity without sacrificing quality...

anyways glad to have ya here, and glad things worked out for you in the long run...hope you stay tuned for our first sucess and failure stories


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## Thundercat (Feb 24, 2013)

Looks like it was a busy day for sure if you did 12 jars. Thats about how many i started with, then did another batch I think a week or two later to get the second round( and other strains)going. Good luck man Got my fingers crossed for you on the contams.


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## technical dan (Feb 24, 2013)

Looks good matt I hope it was/stays clean.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 24, 2013)

i got free prints for everyone at the end of this grow for B+ so for every one that reaches fruits(with pics of course), you can get a free B+ print. that will be my ultimate contribution to the thread.

its a print not a syringe... i dont feel like going to get the syringes and do the work of putting them in there, but i can give you prints which are pretty easy to work from, it will help you guys expand your knowledge too.


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## Thundercat (Feb 24, 2013)

I like making my own syringes, storing prints is way easier too. I've had some stored for about 4 years now just waiting for a chance to use them again.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 24, 2013)

how long before you usually see mycelium growth in the jars after inoc? temps are swinging from 78-84


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## polyarcturus (Feb 24, 2013)

3-4 days usualy


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 24, 2013)

From as little as 3 days to as long as 2 weeks. When you don't see anything by two weeks you should start to worry and work on another batch


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## Thundercat (Feb 24, 2013)

What Acid said really, I would think you'll see something in at least one jar within a week though. Temps swinging not a big deal other then condensation, but make sure it DOES NOT get to 86+ from my understanding that will flat kill myc.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 24, 2013)

My question is how soon can you spot contamination in your jars? I read it's around day two that you can see if the jars are contaminated or not, is that true?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 24, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> My question is how soon can you spot contamination in your jars? I read it's around day two that you can see if the jars are contaminated or not, is that true?


prety sure contamination is a life long concern with this project...sometimes people have fully colonized jars before they see any kind of contam. and it can hit you in fruiting as well (unlikely when you have a strong mycelium, but still possible) 

dont focus energy on contam just focus on the nice white


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 24, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> What Acid said really, I would think you'll see something in at least one jar within a week though. Temps swinging not a big deal other then condensation, but make sure it DOES NOT get to 86+ from my understanding that will flat kill myc.


highest it has hit is 85 but i just turned it down a bit, swinging from 76-85 because i riged the PC fan to shut off with the lights. prob gonna re rig it so the fan runs 24/0 should decrease temp swings byy at least 2 degrees


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## technical dan (Feb 24, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> My question is how soon can you spot contamination in your jars? I read it's around day two that you can see if the jars are contaminated or not, is that true?


I think the time frame would be about the same as the myc that you want to be growing so Im guessing 3-6 days after inoculation or introduction of the contamination.


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## technical dan (Feb 24, 2013)

I was on the Shroomery earlier and found this thread with lots of example pics of what you do and do not want to see in your jars, tubs, and fruits. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17231150.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 25, 2013)

technical dan said:


> I was on the Shroomery earlier and found this thread with lots of example pics of what you do and do not want to see in your jars, tubs, and fruits. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17231150.


must spread reputation around before giving any to technical dan again.....dammit....great contribution to the thread man....awesome link!!


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## wannagrowsum (Feb 25, 2013)

Hey Retired, thanks for my first rep I saw earlier you'd asked if you can keep getting flushes. As long as the cake doesn't go bad first, you can extend the life of cakes by resoaking them in water. You can probably do this no more than 3 times before they're done.

Have you tripped or done shrooms before? I always find homegrown shrooms more potent than cow filed shrooms. They are the only trip that gives me 2 climaxes. The first one good and the second one intense. In the first one, The Golden Teacher showed me how the relations I had with people were like a mycelium network. The healthy connections bore fruit (like a shroom) and the unhealthy connections bore no fruit. It gave me a lot of insight to my relationships with people at the time. The 2nd climax was total ego death. I had to muster all my strength to get through, but I did it without freaking out. The bounderies between me, my thoughts, and my surroundings totally dissolved. The lesson that the GT was trying to teach was surrender. At this point I realized that I had to surrender to the trip and let this happen. That was what saved me.

Just as the shroom has forbidden canndo to sell, it has forbidden me to return until I have implemented the lessons it gave me that faithful night. It was an amazing experience, but I now respect the of wisdom of the shroom much more than I ever had before.


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## Thundercat (Feb 25, 2013)

I've wondered if mycilium could infact be sentient, and perhaps one of the oldest life forms on the planet. Thus it chooses who it imparts its wisdom to, and how it does so. The message obviously is one that can only be heard by first opening ones mind to them, but the knowledge could be that of all existing time.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 25, 2013)

intense thoughts guys, i have never done shrooms (to the point of actually tripping) 

im really looking foward to my first experience. 

thanks for the great insight


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## wannagrowsum (Feb 25, 2013)

Thundercat, Terence McKenna believed that shrooms had an intelligence. People have also found Salvia to have an intelligence, though I've never found that to be the case.


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## canndo (Feb 25, 2013)

I firmly believe that mushrooms have an intelligence - in the case of cubensis, it is not dependent upon any synergy between itself an humanity and bestows it's 'knowlege of existence in the universe as it pleases, bestowing special dispensation upon any who seek and succeed in mastering a wholeistic relationship with the organism. you communicate with this organism at your own peril, pleasure or enlightenment as the mushroom sees fit.


I have had the mushroom as my ally for decades and I have the utmost reverence, respect,awe and fear of it's power. It has seen fit to offer me some of it's knowlege, much of it's great power it forever keeps me humble.



It is always wise to deal humbly with this entity.


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## canndo (Feb 25, 2013)

wannagrowsum said:


> Hey Retired, thanks for my first rep I saw earlier you'd asked if you can keep getting flushes. As long as the cake doesn't go bad first, you can extend the life of cakes by resoaking them in water. You can probably do this no more than 3 times before they're done.
> 
> Have you tripped or done shrooms before? I always find homegrown shrooms more potent than cow filed shrooms. They are the only trip that gives me 2 climaxes. The first one good and the second one intense. In the first one, The Golden Teacher showed me how the relations I had with people were like a mycelium network. The healthy connections bore fruit (like a shroom) and the unhealthy connections bore no fruit. It gave me a lot of insight to my relationships with people at the time. The 2nd climax was total ego death. I had to muster all my strength to get through, but I did it without freaking out. The bounderies between me, my thoughts, and my surroundings totally dissolved. The lesson that the GT was trying to teach was surrender. At this point I realized that I had to surrender to the trip and let this happen. That was what saved me.
> 
> Just as the shroom has forbidden canndo to sell, it has forbidden me to return until I have implemented the lessons it gave me that faithful night. It was an amazing experience, but I now respect the of wisdom of the shroom much more than I ever had before.



The mushroom is the antidote to hubris and I am glad, very glad that you heed it's communication. We all know that even this is an illusion, that the mushroom is only what we make it, but the more we revere it, the more we make of it, the more we make of it the more we are able to become as inhabitants, no matter how briefly of this astounding universe.


Many of us treat LSD as the toy that it is, powerful but still a toy, the mushroom is no toy.


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## Thundercat (Feb 25, 2013)

I completely agree about the LSD too, it didn't have nearly the spiritual "weight" that the mushrooms carry. The LSD seriously felt more like hey lets just party!


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## wannagrowsum (Feb 25, 2013)

Canndo, I totally agree. I would do acid right now but I'm not going back to shrooms until I'm ready. I've accomplished about half of my lessons so far. My reverence is in a jungian sort of way.


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## Miniie (Feb 27, 2013)

YAY Mushies!
They are super easy to grow.
I skipped most of the pages because i didn't feel like reading through 28 pages to make a comment. I've got tons of experience with mushies and heres some advice ill pass on to you.

Don't be too afraid of "contams"... People exaggerate some times... You don't need a glove box unless you want to be fancy like that or if you're working with agar, cloning, spore isolation and stuff like that.
When i inoculated my jars, i usually did it in my kitchen. Id wipe down the counter with lysol, alcohol or any disinfectant i had. Id also spray Lysol in the air and waited a bit to kill any airborne contams.
I've had many grows and i've only had 1 contaminated jar, but that was because i was trying out something someone told me.


I think that PF cakes are the easiest way to start out. I wouldn't suggest going with grain because then you have to worry about casing and all those other extra steps.
PF TEK is easy and it will get you familiar with the way mycellium grows. After you have some PF experience under your belt you can totally manage rye and liquid culture for bulk grows no problem.

If you add a pinch of gypsum to your Brown rice flour verm mix it really helps with the fruit bodies.
Keep the inoculated jars in the dark. Whenever i kept them out they started pinning before they were fully colonized, but once i placed my jars in the cabinet above the fridge i never had that problem again.
Make sure to dunk and roll your cakes before you put them in the fruiting chamber and after ever harvest. It really does increase yield.

My FC was pretty low maintenance... I just had a clear tote i drilled two holes on each side large enough to slip some tubing through it and connected it to air bubble wands at the bottom, and filled it with some water and layers penlite on top.
I drilled two bigger holes on the lid of the tote and my FC was always within optimal temp range and humidity was great! Just need to fan it out to a couple of times to get rid of the CO2 build up.
I just misted and fanned the cakes in the morning before i went to work, during my lunch break, and sometime in the evening.

You can look up how to make one like it. I think it's a poor man's pod..

Hope this helps! Good luck!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 27, 2013)

well we have a couple teks going on in this thread right now. my buddy is doing the PF tek and im doing a grain tek with popcorn and will be casing. have read lots and lots and i think im ready to go all in with the grain and casing tek. ill probabally be casing with a mix of happy frog potting soil amended with garden lime and espoma garden tone (my mj plant composition) pasturized 50/50 with soil/peat. then will add my final layer of dry vermiculite and mist. i just dont know how im going to manage misting 2-3 times a day so i need to figure out a system that is 100% maintenance free. but no need to fear as Matthebrute may be retired but he is still full of ideas!! 

forst thing is first is a air pump with a long length of air tubing run to each pan (will be using aluminum throw away pans with covers.) holes poked in the tubing at each pan and small vent holes in the top. this will give me FOA

then i am going to rig up a humidifier and another lenght of tubing and set that on a timer....it will prob run 15 min once an hour, this will give me humidity..

what do you guys think?


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 27, 2013)

Matt sounds like a plan to me buddy  Good idea on that humidifier, I'll just go with a clear plastic tote for the FC don't have a lot of space for that, so I'll just put my FC on top of my grow box and I should be fine with that.

Just waiting for them jars to start colonizing the shit out of it lol but no movement so far.. will just have to wait a bit longer.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 27, 2013)

tomorow at 3pm will make day 5 for me im really hoping to have something growing by then....something white preferably.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 27, 2013)

LOL!!! Holy Shit Matt!! did we inoculated at the same time? look like it. Yeah I checked my jars today for the first time and I don't see shit haha


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 27, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> LOL!!! Holy Shit Matt!! did we inoculated at the same time? look like it. Yeah I checked my jars today for the first time and I don't see shit haha


i checked mine day before yesterday because i was there anyways. will head over tomorow or when i can get my truck out of the drive. just got a ft of snow and now we getting another foot tonight


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 27, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> i checked mine day before yesterday because i was there anyways. will head over tomorow or when i can get my truck out of the drive. just got a ft of snow and now we getting another foot tonight


Dang!!! That's a lot of foking snow buddy! We got some sleet last night but not a lot just about 5". I'm so ready for this winter to be over! haha few more weeks and we should start to see nicer weather around here.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 27, 2013)

Matt oh and one more thing, not to shit on our parade buddy but I read that our spores101 has some bad rep  so if anything goes wrong this time around maybe we can check some other spore site, I heard sporeworks.com has a very good rep. But that's only what I have read in past few days so will see how it will go


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 27, 2013)

dam really man, i have heard good things about them, maybe i was looking in the worng spot  

anyways yeah if shit goes downhill then i will for sure be ordering from somewhere else.


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## Miniie (Feb 27, 2013)

If you want maintenance free, why don't you just build a monotub? Its super easy and cheap to set up and you don't need to do anything to it. I still fan them and mist them a bit because mushies like a little TLC too. I also noticed an increase in yield when i give them that sort of attention <3
If you think you are ready for casing and grain tek, i would say go ahead. The more mushies the merrier <3!
Personally, i'm frugal as hell.. So i just do verm/coco in a monotub for rye. It works great!

BY THE WAY!
SPOREWORKS IS AWESOME!
I ordered a few strains from them and then just made my own Liquid culture and spore syringes so i wouldn't have to buy any more. If you don't know what strain to get which was my case, you can order the random ones and see what you get. Its fun to experiment. :3


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## technical dan (Feb 27, 2013)

After seeing my order proccess for so long I started looking at vendor reviews (shroomery) and I also saw that spores101 has some bad rep relating to contaminated syringes, the two vendors that seemed to provide the best service were sporeworks as has been said and also thehawkseye. Both cost a bit more than some others but are reported to have been much more professional site/ staff, better communication, and shorter production times. 

Hope you guys see some good growth soon, I'm still waiting for my spores - now, again sayin they are possed to be delivered today, I hope I have enough package karma to get em this time.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 27, 2013)

awesome guys, im just hoping for the best at this point but will see. if i get shitty results i will contact spores101 and see what they will do to make it right. it says right on thier site that if you have any problems to contact them and they will ship out new syringes for free. 

maybe the bad rep they had in the past has made them button up thier operation...who knows. im just waiting it out and hoping for the best!!


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 27, 2013)

technical dan said:


> After seeing my order proccess for so long I started looking at vendor reviews (*shroomery*) and I also saw that spores101 has some bad rep relating to contaminated syringes, the two vendors that seemed to provide the best service were sporeworks as has been said and also thehawkseye. Both cost a bit more than some others but are reported to have been much more professional site/ staff, better communication, and shorter production times.
> 
> Hope you guys see some good growth soon, I'm still waiting for my spores - now, again sayin they are possed to be delivered today, I hope I have enough package karma to get em this time.


yeah that's the place, and from what I read that's why they got dropped from the sponsors because of the contaminated syringes, or syringes with nothing in it lol...


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## aCiDjEsUs (Feb 27, 2013)

But it's not like they cost a fortune so we can always try another vendor if anything, but like Matt said I wouldn't be surprised if they step up their game to get the trust back.


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## Thundercat (Feb 27, 2013)

Hey man I saw you were trying to figure out how to make the fanning low maintenance and deal with the fresh air flow. In this pic you can see the mason jar that has holes in the lid with the air hose running into it. The top has surgical tape over the holes, and the jar is half filled with water. This worked great to force CLEAN air into the FC which pushed the CO2 out and eliminated the need to fan. I still usually checked on them once a day but didn't open it up more then I had to. This also seemed to eliminate the need for the humidifier, the bottom of my chamber had perlite in it with distilled water poured down in it which in conjunction with the humidity from the jar kept my FC at like 98-99% RH all the time. http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp301/thundercat_420/projects101.jpg
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp301/thundercat_420/projects016-1.jpg
The second picture shows how I finished the filter patchs for the sides of the chamber and you can see the RH still sitting at 99%. I also thought I'd throw in these pics of the 4th flush of my Koh Samoi (thailand strain) they were pretty huge, The first flush is the one in my avatar.
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp301/thundercat_420/projects010-1.jpg
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp301/thundercat_420/projects014-1.jpg
BTW I'm 6'4 and my hands are about 8-9 inchs long......


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## technical dan (Feb 27, 2013)

yep hopefully Spores101 improved. 

Thundercat I'm going to use that humidity jar in my terrarium. 

Got my spores today and inoculated two pints and a half pint of rye berries with P. cube golden teacher. I'm going to wait until I see some kind of growth and depending on what is growing Ill inoculate another set of jars with P. galindoi Georgia for sclerotia/ stones or work on my clean procedure.


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## Thundercat (Feb 27, 2013)

Nice man sounds like a great start!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 28, 2013)

that mason jar sounds like a great idea!!.

question though. everyone keeps saying perilite for moisture retention but where im casing its not really and option for me. right?


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## polyarcturus (Feb 28, 2013)

not sure what you mean the perlite doesnt go on the substrate. just a layer in the bottom fruiting chamber to keep the RH up.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 28, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> not sure what you mean the perlite doesnt go on the substrate. just a layer in the bottom fruiting chamber to keep the RH up.


yeah and im using popcorn and casing it with a soil/peat casing....so putting perilite on the bottom isnt going to do me any good after i pile all that shit on top of it


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## polyarcturus (Feb 28, 2013)

you supposed to put all that stuff in a container of some sort. im working on a tutorial if you can wait a day or so i can show you. im gonna show how to do it from beginning to end.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 28, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> you supposed to put all that stuff in a container of some sort. im working on a tutorial if you can wait a day or so i can show you. im gonna show how to do it from beginning to end.


yes im going to put the layer of colonized corn in the bottom of a throw away turkey/cake pan, then case with my pasturized soil/peat mix that has been brough to "feild capacity" and then into a garbage bad so no light gets in, once the mycelium fully colonizes the casing i am going to place a thin layer of dry vermiculite and remove from garbage bag and start fruiting them right in the throw away container....

sound about right?


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## polyarcturus (Feb 28, 2013)

sounds right except your throwaway container has to be fruited in a fruiting chamber, on the bottom of the fruiting chamber (generally a tote) is where the perlite would go.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Feb 28, 2013)

ahh ok makes sense now...gonna have to get another tote or 2 because i plan on doing 6 pans. 4 will be mine and i am giving away one pan to each of the people whom live in the house that im growing them in. my wife wont let me grow anything here, with her school and occupation she cant risk losing her licences.


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## canndo (Feb 28, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> yes im going to put the layer of colonized corn in the bottom of a throw away turkey/cake pan, then case with my pasturized soil/peat mix that has been brough to "feild capacity" and then into a garbage bad so no light gets in, once the mycelium fully colonizes the casing i am going to place a thin layer of dry vermiculite and remove from garbage bag and start fruiting them right in the throw away container....
> 
> sound about right?



Better still, turn on the fruiting just before your mycelium breaks the surface of the casing, no need for vermiculite on top. When in doubt, furrow and you will get extremely even pinsets, if your substrate is rich enough or deep enough you will get picture worthy canopies


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 1, 2013)

WOOT!! got some white shit growing on my popcorn, hopefully its mycelium and not mold...just a couple really small spots right now but will be back over there tomorow to check on it again and see how its looking. hopefully by tomorow all of my jars have something growing inside. 

also, when using popcorn tek is it uncommon to find black spots on some of the kernels? io have a few jars with them and they dont really look like a contam as much as they look like they me be part of the corn kernel. i also looked at a fresh bag and notices some darker spots in the tips of some of the kernels but they were inside the kernel so couldnt see if they were actually black or not. im thinking with boiling the kernels it revealed some blemishes that you dont really notice otherwise.


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## canndo (Mar 1, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> WOOT!! got some white shit growing on my popcorn, hopefully its mycelium and not mold...just a couple really small spots right now but will be back over there tomorow to check on it again and see how its looking. hopefully by tomorow all of my jars have something growing inside.
> 
> also, when using popcorn tek is it uncommon to find black spots on some of the kernels? io have a few jars with them and they dont really look like a contam as much as they look like they me be part of the corn kernel. i also looked at a fresh bag and notices some darker spots in the tips of some of the kernels but they were inside the kernel so couldnt see if they were actually black or not. im thinking with boiling the kernels it revealed some blemishes that you dont really notice otherwise.



SHIT - I forgot to tell you about that. Kernels in bulk can have large amounts of contamination - I personally believe they are a form of the fungus Aspergillis, could be niger, could be another - there are dozens - SOME are very carcinogenic and produce aflatoxins that are very bad for you. I quit eating popcorn in public places because of all the mold I tended to find in bulk popcorn.

http://msucares.com/pubs/infosheets/is1563.htm


so, firstly, never ever keep your raw uncooked corn anywhere near your grow. Second, don't eat the corn, if you like popcorn get it in the clear one pound bags. Third, increase your cook time by 15 minutes and you should be fine but an aspergillis outbreak is a nasty nasty thing and I have reason to believe that either aspergillis will germinate on breather patches or they are actually able to pass through the micropore surface. I have had 80 percent loss rates on spawn for various mushrooms - even shaggy manes who's mycelium grows at fantastic rates.


What you will see is a perfect germination, tiny white spots, everything progressing fine, but a day or two after your first shake you will see smears of black or black/green all over your corn - EVERYWHERE which is a clue.


Good luck, but you will know in short order. Remember, if you see white, wait a day and then shake in a swirling motion so you can get each kernel in contact with each other kernel, 20 maybe 30 seconds. 

and it is extremely likely that what you see is what you seek.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 1, 2013)

not really sure what you mean here ^^ 

i used regulat bagged yellow popcorn, i looked at some images and seems alot of the images i looked at have the same black specks as mine do...i guess time will tell.


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## canndo (Mar 1, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> not really sure what you mean here ^^
> 
> i used regulat bagged yellow popcorn, i looked at some images and seems alot of the images i looked at have the same black specks as mine do...i guess time will tell.



I don't see much contamination in the one pound clear bags, or even the 20 lb clear bags, mostly only in the big paper sacks of what? 50 lbs?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 1, 2013)

ahh ok, i thought you mean popcorn in general. yeah i just got the one lb plastic bags.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 1, 2013)

> Kernels in *bulk* can have large amounts of contamination


igot confused because of the word bulk, i was thinking you were refering to the tek and not the quanity of kernels i bought lol


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## canndo (Mar 1, 2013)

Aflatoxin is one of the principle dangers of growing mushrooms, there are other lung diseases you can contract as well,I can't stress this enough to those who seek to grow any sort of quantity. Even Cubensis gives off dangerous spores and enough of them can cause pulmonary stress. Oyster mushrooms tend to give off so many spores that they will congeal in long strings at breeze points in your grow and people will get sick from breathing them. When you blow your nose and the snot comes out purple you know you are doing dangerous work.


I believe I've said this before but it is worth repeating, I am fairly certain I contracted pneumonia from cleaning a grow room full of contamination, mostly trich but there was quite a lot of niger in the room as well. I didn't know what was the matter with me, I got more and more tired, my breathing seemed to "bubble" in my throat but I put off going to the doctor because I had an appointment for something else in a few weeks. I wound up VERY sick before I finally went to the E.R. and found the problem in my left lung - it could have killed me.


If your jars or boxes or bins have lots of mold in them, throw them out or at the very least wear a good particulate mask.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 1, 2013)

the tote that i put the corn in to dry after i soaked and boiled it ended up really green moldy from sitting out in the house, as soon as i saw it i sprayed everything down with bleach water and promptly removed it from the house and siposed of it. 

what i think is in the jars is part of the corn kernels, but im not sure. will have to wait to find out. unfortunatly i am not blessed with a verry clean houshold to grow them in. i wont take any chances though, first site of contams i will chuck em prob jar and all. 

i do plan on cleaning out a area of the house and letting it air out well before i start my casing and fruiting, will also be disenfecting the area and closing it off with new shower curtains. not sure how im going to do it but ill think of something. and i seen a site someone linked on here that had lots of pics of when to and when not to harvest and i think i have a pretty good idea when they are done. 

another question arises though, even if you harvest your mushrooms when they are at prime time (when the ring is starting to stretch down the stem but hasnt not yet broken) does the mushroom still release spores as it dries and that ring breaks.?


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## canndo (Mar 1, 2013)

First, if you got mold in the container you used to dry the corn, you may not have rinsed the kernels enough, there should be little if anything left after contact with the kernels, but you did learn your cleanliness lesson for the week, clean up after yourself. Remember that you have a limited time in your dwelling, you will begin to increase the overall sporeload in your home the moment you begin growing mushrooms. Each small outbreak of trich for instance, will emit only a few hundred million spores, trich spores are inherently sticky so they won't float much but some will add to the ecosystem of your home. Each home has such a system, each home has a predominance of one sort of contamination or other, usually trich but possibly aspergillis (look, all homes have SOME deleterious mold, it is the quantity that becomes dangerous and you may be inadvertently increasing that quantity). What happens then is that each time you get an outbreak that is not quickly contained you add to the particulate count in your environment - this means that you are more likely to get another outbreak, which increases your load yet again, this continues until finally you find that it is impossible to grow anything except for the mold you have been fighting.

Now you have a problem. In the past I have been forced simply to move on but it is possible to bring that load down by washing the walls and the floors with 10 percent bleach solution, then going through everything in your house to dust and vacuum with a hepa type vacuum cleaner. What you have done is to up your load needlessly, be sure in the future to clean anything that is attractive to contaminants as quickly as you can after you finish your work. When working with agar for instance, a single errant drop of agar on the floor of a glovebox can go un noticed and not cleaned (of course until the next time the box is being prepped for use). That agar is a magnet for every spore and those spores will quickly germinate on the fresh agar - in only a day or so the small colonies will give off spores and fully contaminate your box. When the box is opened the positive pressure created by opening the lid will blow those spores all over your room and your moving around will bring them to every other room. Your clothes as well will carry spores and particulates that have spores attached - hence, in my sticky, you see me stress cleaning one's clothes.


There is another way to treat your abode however, that is the process of edging out unwanted spores. If you let enough cubensis spores invade your house you will find that the unwanted spore count will go down and the principle contaminant in your home will now actually be cubensis spores which you might see growing on the cheese in your fridge or on some of the vegies you left in a bowl, rather than the traditional bread mold or fruit mold (trich). But this takes some doing and you might even see a purple tinge on your walls - or a very purple brown taint on your furnace filter (you know the one, that you don't ever think to change even though it is packed with dust? Dust, by the way that is filled with spores and that eventually work their way through the filter and into your ducting system - causing no end to problems - CHANGE that filter and get an electrostatic one, they cost about 12 bucks and your family will thank you, as there will be fewer sick days, less dusting to do, and perhaps fewer alergic attacks.



The point here is that I urge everyone to begin to think on a microsopic level. Do this long enough and you get a sixth sense for the invisible around you, the mites, the spores, the endospores and the particles that you have never before even thought about.

If you intend to continue working in a particular area I strongly urge you to purchase a few sleeves of plastic petri dishes and half a pound of prepared agar - the dishes are 10 dollars or so a sleeve and the agar about 20 dollars. Make a quart of agar solution per instructions and pour yourself some dishes. Now place the dishes in various parts of your house and keep a log. Open each of the dishes in turn in the open air for 30 seconds and a minute and 5 minutes. Do this in every room. Take a few dishes and shake your hair over one, touch one wth your fingers, touch the surface with some of your clothes, your socks, the sole of a shoe or slipper. Then put the lids back on and wait - you will soon get a good idea not only of your spore load but of the sorts of species that live with you in your home. I will commonly sprinkle a bit of dust from my hepa vacuum, take swabs from the inside and outside of the hepa filter as well just to see how efficient the filter remains and to see what is going on in my house.


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## canndo (Mar 1, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> the tote that i put the corn in to dry after i soaked and boiled it ended up really green moldy from sitting out in the house, as soon as i saw it i sprayed everything down with bleach water and promptly removed it from the house and siposed of it.
> 
> what i think is in the jars is part of the corn kernels, but im not sure. will have to wait to find out. unfortunatly i am not blessed with a verry clean houshold to grow them in. i wont take any chances though, first site of contams i will chuck em prob jar and all.
> 
> ...


Yes, spores will be released after you pick - in fact the mushroom will continue to grow after it is picked for several hours, releasing spores all over the surface you leave them on and yes, even after the mushroom is dry it will still release some amount of spores. Don't worry about that sporeload unless you are harvesting many many ounces - I am just publishing worst case scenarios and hoping that people understand that there is some danger in this seemingly benign hobby. Mostly it is that rare strain of contamination that you have inadvertantly brought from just a few thousand spores in your home into their being billions without your ever knowing it because of that one jar that you let go and THOSE spores having floated onto those damp cheetos in the back of your couch.


the other one you want to watch out for is bacillus- it is insidious. Bacillus creates endospores that are highly resisitant to heat, dry or otherwise, the endospores can survive two hundred degrees. What happens is that we work in percentages. 98 percent will be killed by 212 degrees for half an hour, some of what survives will live through 45 minutes, some of those will live through an hour but here is the rub. This bacteria can replicate every 20 minutes. It takes only ONE to ruin a jar and it will ruin that jar at any point in time. You may find that your jar is growing well, it is not all colonized and you do your shake, the next day you see this greasy slimy yellowish stuff everywhere there is not healthy mucelium. The mycelium will not grow into or on the mucor infested areas and now, if you bruise the mycelium in any way it will never recover at all, so another shake will give you a rotten apple smelling mess that will literally BLOW it's spores and live bacteria all over you and your house should you happen to open the jar. Remember, every 20 minutes is far faster than your mycelium, that's two in 40 minutes, 8 in an hour, 16 in an hour 20 etc - you get millions in no time.


Have I given you too much information? am I frightening you now? Well, it's friday and I have nothing better to do today than smoke this cigar and pontificate.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 1, 2013)

canndo said:


> Well, it's friday and I have nothing better to do today than smoke this blunt and fornicate.


fixed it


haha yeah my house is a trich factory i bet lol. it worry me but at the same times there limitations to what fungi can do. i just wing it and hope for the best, clean everything of course the best i can but theres only so much one can do.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 1, 2013)

nah man your giving great information...now i know if i do get a contam jar not to just open it and chuck it in the trash. ill bring it outside and dispose of it in the dumpster with a bottle of bleach water in hand. i actually understand everything you have said. i am no professional but i have had a biology 101 in college LOL. though that class covers alot it also gives you a really general but consice idea of how living things work and reproduce. i think tomorow im going to head over to my mushi place with a box of garbage bags and help my friend clean the shit out of his house...i think this will help a little, then ill go through the house with a couple cans of disenfectant spray and spray every crevice and crack i can find. 

i knwo this wont eradicate the problem but im sure it will help some, plus he is disabled and could probabally use some help getting his home cleaned up anyways. so not only will i be doing my experiment a favor i will also be helping him out.


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## Mookjong (Mar 1, 2013)

Wahoo! finally caught up to you guys. I read just about every post, I gotta say I am impressed with the quality of information here. It really had me rethink a few things. I'll try to contribute in any way I can. It seems Canndo and Poly have got this. Once your sitting pretty, I know of some kick ass teks for making smokable psilocybin and even psilocin crystal. What ever you do don't toss your myclelia!! Also, Psilocybin extracts are supposed to have greater intensity and considerably less body load and skin pulling sensations. Capsulized crystal mushroom extracts have some pretty epic trip reports. 

I ran across this tid bit from Adam Gottlieb "Higher temperatures (75*F) cause more rapid growth of the flesh, but lower psilocybin content than do lower temps.(70*F) e/ (We're talking about fruiting here) 
This would have helped me in the past.. 

Anyways, I'll be watching...

If someone could hit canndo with a +rep for me, I'll pass one back to ya!


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## polyarcturus (Mar 1, 2013)

i might hit you up on those extracts... how long is the trip would you say? i got a guy who likes to smoke them as is. and he gets some effect so he says, bet he would pay out the shizzle for some extract.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 1, 2013)

must spread rep before i can benounce Canndo again


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## Mookjong (Mar 1, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> i might hit you up on those extracts... how long is the trip would you say? i got a guy who likes to smoke them as is. and he gets some effect so he says, bet he would pay out the shizzle for some extract.


The smoked extract lasts about an hour. It's a long ass hour though... 

The capsules of crystaline psilicin is where it's at tho..

There is a lot of info about it on lycaeum.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 1, 2013)

I need to see some whit stuff growing in my jars haha nothing as of yet on my end not even a cont. but it might be the temps which are at constant 68F. Tomorrow it will make 7 days since I knocking the jars up..


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## Mookjong (Mar 1, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> I need to see some whit stuff growing in my jars haha nothing as of yet on my end not even a cont. but it might be the temps which are at constant 68F. Tomorrow it will make 7 days since I knocking the jars up..


It will be very slow at that temp.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 1, 2013)

yeah that sounds normal i dont nothing usually for about 8 days unless i used a good bit of solution.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 1, 2013)

Ahh cool cool, Thank you guys


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 1, 2013)

Poly, that goes for contamination also? if I should see something would it be at the same time rite? I either see mycelium or contamination around the same time?


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## polyarcturus (Mar 1, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Poly, that goes for contamination also? if I should see something would it be at the same time rite? I either see mycelium or contamination around the same time?


yes and no. some contamination will only become active after mycelium grows. but for the most part yes you would see comtam then. then again the cold helps to resist contamination giving time to the mycelium to consume it before it becomes anything.(germinate)

its a living organism, contams, are an issue, but made out to be bigger than they are. if you follow procedure and use good methods and feel confidant and listen to the little advice like "dont pass your hands over open containers" you will be fine. as ive become more experienced i have even let contaminated jars go on without any attention to come back and find pure white mycelium. they did contam in the end, but i did get some fruit. with mycology its all experiece you can learn a lot in a little time with mushrooms, and bouce right back, with weed its not the same, it doesnt grow in 6-8weeks and you cant just take a peice of that plant if you fuck up and continue on like you could a mushrooms.( essentially to make a clone of a mushroom(very simplistic, its not this easy!) all you need is a clean sterile piece of mycelium or fruit, and put that into a sterile substrate to regrow.)


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 1, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> yes and no. some contamination will only become active after mycelium grows. but for the most part yes you would see comtam then. then again the cold helps to resist contamination giving time to the mycelium to consume it before it becomes anything.(germinate)
> 
> its a living organism, contams, are an issue, but made out to be bigger than they are. if you follow procedure and use good methods and feel confidant and listen to the little advice like "dont pass your hands over open containers" you will be fine. as ive become more experienced i have even let contaminated jars go on without any attention to come back and find pure white mycelium. they did contam in the end, but i did get some fruit. with mycology its all experiece you can learn a lot in a little time with mushrooms, and bouce right back, with weed its not the same, it doesnt grow in 6-8weeks and you cant just take a peice of that plant if you fuck up and continue on like you could a mushrooms.( essentially to make a clone of a mushroom(very simplistic, its not this easy!) all you need is a clean sterile piece of mycelium or fruit, and put that into a sterile substrate to regrow.)


Poly, man I appreciate that a lot. Thank you sir. 

From all that I ordered another syringe from sporeworks haha


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## MJG420 (Mar 2, 2013)

Wow there is A LOT of information here!!!! Just spent the past 3 hours while sterilizing my jars(for a 2nd time) reading from the start and am about a week behind you guys you can check out my grow HERE. Glad I came across this thread before getting too far into things. Going to construct a glove box now while my jars finish cooling and in a few hours will be inoculating them with my spores. Will be subscribing to this grow as well and look forward to seeing the results!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 2, 2013)

MJG420 said:


> Wow there is A LOT of information here!!!! Just spent the past 3 hours while sterilizing my jars(for a 2nd time) reading from the start and am about a week behind you guys you can check out my grow HERE. Glad I came across this thread before getting too far into things. Going to construct a glove box now while my jars finish cooling and in a few hours will be inoculating them with my spores. Will be subscribing to this grow as well and look forward to seeing the results!


glad to have you along...will check out your thread


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 2, 2013)

heres my pics


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 2, 2013)

i have a bad feeling i have some contam in a few jars


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## polyarcturus (Mar 2, 2013)

looking good for now!


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## MJG420 (Mar 2, 2013)

Looking good man, hoping for the same soon myself!


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## technical dan (Mar 2, 2013)

Its good to see that white matt! 

Im going to make a syringe from my P. galindoa print tomorrow and then inoculate on monday.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 3, 2013)

so what do you guys think of that black colored kernel in the first pic? contam or just a stain from something in the popcorn?


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## MJG420 (Mar 3, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> so what do you guys think of that black colored kernel in the first pic? contam or just a stain from something in the popcorn?


Looks to me like a rotten/bad kernel of corn you may have missed while cooking and rinsing only time will tell for sure.


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## technical dan (Mar 3, 2013)

To me it just looks like a bad kernel. I do not think that it would cause any issues assuming proper sterilization and all. If a quarter of your kernels were bad that would probably caused problems but one or two in a jar shouldn't do anything (I think/ hope).


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## polyarcturus (Mar 3, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> so what do you guys think of that black colored kernel in the first pic? contam or just a stain from something in the popcorn?


burned it when cooking.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 3, 2013)

sweet, good replies and vibes guys  

i went and checked on them and the black dosent seem to be spreading but the white is going crazy!! every jar has some white growth in it so keep them good vibes coming!!!! hopefully by thursday they are colonized enough to begin casing...


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## MJG420 (Mar 3, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> sweet, good replies and vibes guys
> 
> i went and checked on them and the black dosent seem to be spreading but the white is going crazy!! every jar has some white growth in it so keep them good vibes coming!!!! hopefully by thursday they are colonized enough to begin casing...


I'm jealous!!!!


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## Thundercat (Mar 3, 2013)

Cheers man thats awesome. When the environment is right, and it starts, it can happen really fast.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 3, 2013)

yeah the mycelium seems to be growing fairly quickly in a couple jars, noticable difference in 24 hours.

grabbed some lasagna pans for casing in and should be gtg soon i hope


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## canndo (Mar 3, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> sweet, good replies and vibes guys
> 
> i went and checked on them and the black dosent seem to be spreading but the white is going crazy!! every jar has some white growth in it so keep them good vibes coming!!!! hopefully by thursday they are colonized enough to begin casing...



Shake your jars.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 3, 2013)

canndo said:


> Shake your jars.


have been


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 4, 2013)

Fok, I still ain't got shit going on, no white stuff no contam. nothing, nada. hahah it's been 9 days since I knocked the jars up maybe it's just my temps. they don't go over 69F, I hope I'll see something by week 2, if nothing I'll just have to knock some more jars up with a new spores that should be arriving this afternoon.


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## Thundercat (Mar 4, 2013)

Its the temps acid, they really like to be at warmer temps to colonize, and a bit cooler temps to fruit.


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## technical dan (Mar 4, 2013)

Hope you see some growth soon acid. 

I just inoculated 2 pints and a 1/2 pint with the P. galindoa syringe I made. I do not see any signs of life/ growth in the GT jars yet. Hopefully there will be some myc when I get back in a couple days. I get to go play outside in canyon country!


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 4, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Its the temps acid, they really like to be at warmer temps to colonize, and a bit cooler temps to fruit.


Thunder, but I still should be good even with lower temps. rite? it's just going to take a bit longer then if I had used TiT or something similar.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 4, 2013)

technical dan said:


> Hope you see some growth soon acid.
> 
> I just inoculated 2 pints and a 1/2 pint with the P. galindoa syringe I made. I do not see any signs of life/ growth in the GT jars yet. Hopefully there will be some myc when I get back in a couple days. I get to go play outside in* canyon country!*


Dan yeah I hope I see some growth soon, if not I got more spores coming in today from a different vendor (sporeworks)

Sounds awesome!! Can't wait for the weather get a bit warmer and off into the woods we are haha


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 4, 2013)

Hey Dan, have you visit my new thread in my sig? if not stop by and check it out, I'm not sure if I saw you there haha


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## Xrangex (Mar 4, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> have been


Glad to see you're finally at it man! Where'd you end up getting the spores from? I'll be ordering on the 5th


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 4, 2013)

i got my spores fromspores101.com but some folks on here have said they have bad reviews...

3 jars no sign of life other 9 are colonizing fast, i got pics will uplload later


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 4, 2013)

Matt, I got my order in from sporework.com and let me tell ya WOW what a difference, I can clearly see big ass clumps floating around, the syringes from spores101 were clear like water not these, plus extra needle some alcohol wipes nicee.

Here's a picture of the syringe 

And here some pictures of my incubator, I'm using my old aquarium with a plastic tote in it with a black light above that keeps things nice and warm at constant 82.5F, that black light is emitting heat only no usable light spectrum, I was test driving that thing all morning long and finally I got the light in the right spot at where I want it with the temps I want it.


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## MJG420 (Mar 4, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Matt, I got my order in from sporework.com and let me tell ya WOW what a difference, I can clearly see big ass clumps floating around, the syringes from spores101 were clear like water not these, plus extra needle some alcohol wipes nicee.
> 
> Here's a picture of the syringe View attachment 2553456
> 
> ...




Hell yeah man! Thinking I am going to need to get a heating pad for my jars, the spot I have them sitting in right now is just too cool. If not a heating pad I'll come up with some other ingenious idea on how to get the temps up just a bit.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 4, 2013)

MJG420 said:


> Hell yeah man! Thinking I am going to need to get a heating pad for my jars, the spot I have them sitting in right now is just too cool. If not a heating pad I'll come up with some other ingenious idea on how to get the temps up just a bit.


MJ, I got like 10 jars sitting knocked up since last saturday in 68F and nothing not a sign of life.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 4, 2013)

Checked my "incubator" and it's keeping it's temperature at steady 81.5F after hours of running so I think I'm happy with it haha


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## polyarcturus (Mar 4, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Matt, I got my order in from sporework.com and let me tell ya WOW what a difference, I can clearly see big ass clumps floating around, the syringes from spores101 were clear like water not these, plus extra needle some alcohol wipes nicee.
> 
> Here's a picture of the syringe View attachment 2553456
> 
> ...


you would be better off using the red light vs that "black light" 460nm -420nm helps to initiate pinning.


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## MJG420 (Mar 4, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> MJ, I got like 10 jars sitting knocked up since last saturday in 68F and nothing not a sign of life.



Yeah that's what I am trying to avoid, I want to at least see + life by this weekend!  I now have my a box with a heating pad in the bottom of it lined with a couple pairs of old jeans to disburse the heat a bit, then another layer on top of that. Will check it every couple hours to make sure it doesn't get too hot. Going to look into getting a thermometer to monitor temps tomorrow.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 5, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Matt, I got my order in from sporework.com and let me tell ya WOW what a difference, I can clearly see big ass clumps floating around, the syringes from spores101 were clear like water not these, plus extra needle some alcohol wipes nicee.
> 
> Here's a picture of the syringe View attachment 2553456
> 
> ...


dont give up on your current jars too fast man, with the teps you have been keeping them they are going to grow much slower, nice to see you have a incubator going but like poly said the light may cause pinning, try spray painting the bulb to get the heat but not the light  



aCiDjEsUs said:


> MJ, I got like 10 jars sitting knocked up since last saturday in 68F and nothing not a sign of life.


you should see something man, i am so i want to say the spores101 syringes arent BS just gotta give it some time m8


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 5, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> you would be better off using the red light vs that "black light" 460nm -420nm helps to initiate pinning.


Thank you Poly, I'll get rite on it I have some extra "red" bulbs around. Poly you know that "black" light isn't a really a black light like you got at a club, these are black night lights for reptiles, they emit very little or any usable light just heat but you probably knew that, same with the "red" light same thing, but Thank you and I'll get on it.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 5, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> dont give up on your current jars too fast man, with the teps you have been keeping them they are going to grow much slower, nice to see you have a incubator going but like poly said the light may cause pinning, try spray painting the bulb to get the heat but not the light
> 
> 
> 
> you should see something man, i am so i want to say the spores101 syringes arent BS just gotta give it some time m8


Matt I'm not giving up yet, I'm not that kind that gives up easy  
I'll keep them jars for another week maybe two? and will see what happens.

I'm not bashing spores101, just can tell the difference between spores101 and sporeworks.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 5, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Thank you Poly, I'll get rite on it I have some extra "red" bulbs around. Poly you know that "black" light isn't a really a black light like you got at a club, these are black night lights for reptiles, they emit very little or any usable light just heat but you probably knew that, same with the "red" light same thing, but Thank you and I'll get on it.




this is the spectrum for the blue light(exoterra im assuming i have few red and blue laying around, they tend to burn out rater quickly.)
which is a complete lie, because they obviously have a dark colored filter that changes the spectrum. on top of that 630 nm where this light is the highest is the same peak as an HPS, why is it not the same color?

the reds chart looks more correct, to what is seen in the visible spectrum. 
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/infrared_basking_spot_lighting.php

an even better expample would be to look at the different shades of led from 630nm to 740.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 5, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Matt I'm not giving up yet, I'm not that kind that gives up easy
> I'll keep them jars for another week maybe two? and will see what happens.
> 
> I'm not bashing spores101, just can tell the difference between spores101 and sporeworks.


Acid, you could almost make 2-3 syringes with that one if it is so heavily populated with spores. you have to remember that you only need one spore to get your grow on, the more the better obviously but there is such a thing as overkill too. personally if i was you i would head out to the local pharmacy and pick up a few more 10cc syringes, make yoursef a jar with some sort of hole in it and high heat silicone to cover the hole. fill the jar with distilled water and pressure cook it for an hour or so. then inject your syringe into the jar once it cools, shake it up and fill up 3-4 syringes. 

thats what iwould do if i got a syringe that was so heavily populated, it will make it easier to distrubute them into the jars with minimal waste. 

my 2¢


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## canndo (Mar 5, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> Acid, you could almost make 2-3 syringes with that one if it is so heavily populated with spores. you have to remember that you only need one spore to get your grow on, the more the better obviously but there is such a thing as overkill too. personally if i was you i would head out to the local pharmacy and pick up a few more 10cc syringes, make yoursef a jar with some sort of hole in it and high heat silicone to cover the hole. fill the jar with distilled water and pressure cook it for an hour or so. then inject your syringe into the jar once it cools, shake it up and fill up 3-4 syringes.
> 
> thats what iwould do if i got a syringe that was so heavily populated, it will make it easier to distrubute them into the jars with minimal waste.
> 
> my 2¢



this is incorrect information - one spore will never fruit - ever. Mushrooms have sexes just like other plants and animals, you need two spores that are genetic complements in order to get your mushrooms to grow fruit.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 5, 2013)

my apologies, i didnt know that. ty for the correct info.

whats your opinion on making more syringes? i am still a newb with all this so i openly admit i dont know shit


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## canndo (Mar 5, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> my apologies, i didnt know that. ty for the correct info.
> 
> whats your opinion on making more syringes? i am still a newb with all this so i openly admit i dont know shit



You should never need more than one clean syringe of spores for each sort of mushroom you grow. You are best getting to monoculture anyway.


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## Thundercat (Mar 5, 2013)

I found making my own syringes to be very easy. Thats how I started my grow, a friend sent me some spore prints he had taken off his grow, and I made up syringes with them. I never got into liquid cultures, or myc transfers while I was growing them. I made syringes a couple times, and each syringe would shoot up a whole batch of jars. As I know I've said in this thread before I like my syringes to be dark so that a few ccs will have plenty of spores in it. I know the idea that spores are microscopic means a clear syringes could still have spores, I know a dark syringe has them! I think I would usually use about half a spore print per syringe, which was prolly overkill but didn't matter I had plenty.


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## canndo (Mar 5, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> I found making my own syringes to be very easy. Thats how I started my grow, a friend sent me some spore prints he had taken off his grow, and I made up syringes with them. I never got into liquid cultures, or myc transfers while I was growing them. I made syringes a couple times, and each syringe would shoot up a whole batch of jars. As I know I've said in this thread before I like my syringes to be dark so that a few ccs will have plenty of spores in it. I know the idea that spores are microscopic means a clear syringes could still have spores, I know a dark syringe has them! I think I would usually use about half a spore print per syringe, which was prolly overkill but didn't matter I had plenty.




That is all fine, however, you should look into monoculture, this is the very best way to grow as there won't be those internal divisions within the substrate and you can be assured of the same species at every flush. Monoculture is easy to do, especialy if you are making your own syringes anyway. Seems that the hyphae have a fairly long period of viability when imersed in sterile water, there is a way to put small, sterile pieces of glass in a syringe and put a bit of the inner tissue into your syringe, then shake it - a lot. You now have a syringe of a single culture that will quickly grow on any substrate.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 5, 2013)

well i just like the idea of being able to store multiple syringes incase something happens and you have to sterilize and start from scratch, instead of ordering new ones you already have them sitting in the fridge!!


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## canndo (Mar 5, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> well i just like the idea of being able to store multiple syringes incase something happens and you have to sterilize and start from scratch, instead of ordering new ones you already have them sitting in the fridge!!



That is what prints are for.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 5, 2013)

and some pics...



the black shit that i seen dosent seem to be spreading and after 3 days i would imagine it would have spread.....


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 5, 2013)

canndo said:


> That is what prints are for.


yeah but how to you keep prints sterile? i like the idea of syringes because if you take the precautions to have nice sterile syringes they will store forever and you dont have to worry about contams once they are capped. with a print isnt there the chance that "other" spres will land on the print paper and get acess to your sterile enviorment?

again im still learning so...


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## polyarcturus (Mar 5, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> yeah but how to you keep prints sterile? i like the idea of syringes because if you take the precautions to have nice sterile syringes they will store forever and you dont have to worry about contams once they are capped. with a print isnt there the chance that "other" spres will land on the print paper and get acess to your sterile enviorment?
> 
> again im still learning so...


wrap them in foil label them and put them in a baggie or container. prints are better than a syringe it will last longer.


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## Thundercat (Mar 5, 2013)

If you take your prints right, and keep them closed up then they should stay sterile. Obviously when you open them there is always a chance of messing it up, but I suppose it comes with the territory. The idea of the monoculture sounds great, your basically cloning the mushroom if I understand correctly. Again I just never got that far, my project lasted about 4-5 months total. Then between a series of unfortunate events it was time to shut down. I look forward to the day I may be able to learn to isolate strains, and play with them all again.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 5, 2013)

still dosent seem sterile.....seems like you have more chance for contam.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 5, 2013)

the way cando laid it out about spores in the enviorment.....the smallest exposure means risking contam....i want 0 contam..


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## polyarcturus (Mar 5, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> still dosent seem sterile.....seems like you have more chance for contam.


if it wasnt sterile then how would we make syringes? lol 

ill add the tek to my tutotial when i get some fruit, the prints i have saved currently are piss-poor.


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## Thundercat (Mar 5, 2013)

your inbox is full retired.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 5, 2013)

kk will clear it


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 5, 2013)

Poly, what im saying is that a syringe is more apt to stay sterile than a print just wrapped in foil...

the syringe is completly enclosed and air tight...the foil has more air leaks and cracks for contams to get into...

glove box and sterile distiled water = sterile sringe?

i dunno, maybe im just taking the sterile to too much of an extreme.....


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## polyarcturus (Mar 5, 2013)

bringing the water to the scene is where contmination occurs, foil is pretty good at sealing if you fold the edges. but really while your in the sterile environment you should be taking that foil and placing it into sterile bag. to completely seal it.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 6, 2013)

ok so i will be dumping my jars into thier fruiting chamber containers on sat (hopefully) 

i have dosne a bunch of reading on casing and i kinda want to make sure i have my shit correct. 

im going to dump the popcorn into some lasagna plans that have lids. after i do that im going to put them in a dark spot for a few days untill full colonization of the substrate has occured. after thi happens i will be casing...

heres my thoughts on this please correct me if im wrong. 

i have some vermiculite and happy frog potting soil, i was going to use 1 cup of potting soil to every 5 cups of vermiculite, the potting soil is extremely nutrient rich....so if im using too much please let me know. i will pasturize at 160 for 1 hour and make sure my soil mix is at field moisture content. i will layer on about a 1 inch thick layer and then place in the dark for 1 week without looking at it. after this week is up i will probabally just begin fruiting...unless i see no colonization.....

do i seem to have this correct or is there something wrong in my idea of what i should be doing for my next step.....mycelium is colonizing in my jars extremely fast....each day i shake and come back to even more mycelium growth than the previous day. i dont think it will be much longer before full colonizatrion occurs.


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## canndo (Mar 6, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> the way cando laid it out about spores in the enviorment.....the smallest exposure means risking contam....i want 0 contam..



You aren't getting zero. Spores in water tend to degrade, the degradation will spread. If you want to keep spores a long time you use sporeprints, folded in half and wrapped in aluminum foil, or you print into petri dish and wrap that up. I like to "cake" the spores into a dish to where I put prints on top of prints such that a single swipe of my spatula will puck up eough spores for a syringe.


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## canndo (Mar 6, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> ok so i will be dumping my jars into thier fruiting chamber containers on sat (hopefully)
> 
> i have dosne a bunch of reading on casing and i kinda want to make sure i have my shit correct.
> 
> ...



That would be about it, the more level your substrate the more level you can make your casing, the more level your casing the more pins. Go a little longer than an hour..

I think you can stop shaking now.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 6, 2013)

i probabally sound like a dumbass in most of my posts....i think i have a good "grasp" on the verry minute basics. But i realize im probabally wrong most of the time..have been reading all morning trying to figure out how im going to go about my next steps and still not sure if i have it right...i feel like i have a solid idea but i want to know for sure.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 6, 2013)

canndo said:


> That would be about it, the more level your substrate the more level you can make your casing, the more level your casing the more pins. Go a little longer than an hour..
> 
> I think you can stop shaking now.


i shook for the last time on tuesday, going to let them do thier thing. is it bad to be checking on them every day? i really have a hard time with leaving things alone so i want to check on them once daily to see if i have any contams or anything like that, also its exciting to see the new growth in the jars, i have been wanting to grow these for almost 2 years now and finally made the plunge....im just hoping everything i do is right or at least not so wrong i kill everything lol.

so levelness is a large factor in pinning then? that makes sense, so i want everything to be as even as possible so that the mycelium grows into the casing evenly...if i have areas that are higher than others it will take longer for the mycelium to grow to the top of the casing making other areas start to pin faster than high spots...do i pretty much have that understood correctly?


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## canndo (Mar 6, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> i shook for the last time on tuesday, going to let them do thier thing. is it bad to be checking on them every day? i really have a hard time with leaving things alone so i want to check on them once daily to see if i have any contams or anything like that, also its exciting to see the new growth in the jars, i have been wanting to grow these for almost 2 years now and finally made the plunge....im just hoping everything i do is right or at least not so wrong i kill everything lol.
> 
> so levelness is a large factor in pinning then? that makes sense, so i want everything to be as even as possible so that the mycelium grows into the casing evenly...if i have areas that are higher than others it will take longer for the mycelium to grow to the top of the casing making other areas start to pin faster than high spots...do i pretty much have that understood correctly?



That's about it - and the looking in on them often is a symptom, just wait until they begin to fruit and grow so fast that you will notice a difference every 15 minutes. You might not leave the room.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 6, 2013)

haha yeah man, maybe ill try my hand at a time lapse if i can get some kind of camera setup to take a pic every 20 min.


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## Thundercat (Mar 6, 2013)

I can't tell you how many nights I spent sitting i my closet smoking bowls and just staring into my FCs. Once you have shrooms it can be even harder not to sit in there and watch them, I remember one night tripping I spent most of the night in the closet just chillin with them listening to music. 

I'm not familiar with the popcorn technique really, but when I did my casings I mixed the colonized substrate 50/50 with moist course vermiculite which increased the volume by 200% and then I let that colonize a couple days before casing the top with another half inch or so of moist vermiculite. I havn't used the soil with it, but seems like it should be useful for the nutrients. I've read about adding crushed egg shells and used coffee grounds and gypsum to fortify the substrate, but I never messed with any of them. I can't imagine most of my flushes being any bigger with the strains that grew well for me. That being said I did not have good success with the burmas, and I've read the same from others. If I can suggest one strain that everyone should try its the Koh Somoui from thailand, thats whats in my avatar.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 6, 2013)

yeah, im not sure how far im going to take this hobby to be honest...i may just cont with the golden teachers and call it a day. i may just do my one grow and be done with it all together....will see.


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## Thundercat (Mar 6, 2013)

Just like everything there's a fair bit of work that goes into it all. People always think growing weed is a easy way to make money, or some huge money making thing. In my experience it takes an awful lot of time, work, and expense if you want to produce good weed, shrooms, or anything along those lines. I looked into brewing some moonshine at one point, and that is a hell of alot of work and time to get back roughly 12% of your investment as alcohol. As with all of these the end product typically is of higher value and money can be made, but its not the get rich quick that so many uninformed people think it is. Your not just gonna go do any of these things real quick to bank some cash.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 6, 2013)

oh hell no man, i have been growing for almost 2 years now and i will finally have my first large scale crop being harvested in 2 more months...i do it as a hobby though not to make money. i sell a little here and there to return my investments so i can continue to grow at little to no cost to me. 

the mushrooms are going to be for me and my friends this summer...making money wasnt evena thought i had on them.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 6, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Just like everything there's a fair bit of work that goes into it all. People always think growing weed is a easy way to make money, or some huge money making thing. In my experience it takes an awful lot of time, work, and expense if you want to produce good weed, shrooms, or anything along those lines. I looked into brewing some moonshine at one point, and that is a hell of alot of work and time to get back roughly 12% of your investment as alcohol. As with all of these the end product typically is of higher value and money can be made, but its not the get rich quick that so many uninformed people think it is. Your not just gonna go do any of these things real quick to bank some cash.


shrooms is way more way proiftable. its just there is no market for large qtys, unless you sell to someone that wants to deal. and its riskier. but 1000x mor profitable.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 6, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> oh hell no man, i have been growing for almost 2 years now and i will finally have my first large scale crop being harvested in 2 more months...i do it as a hobby though not to make money. i sell a little here and there to return my investments so i can continue to grow at little to no cost to me.
> 
> the mushrooms are going to be for me and my friends this summer...making money wasnt evena thought i had on them.


same here i dont even sell mine, maybe a little quart or something, but that really all the their good for you and your friends.


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## technical dan (Mar 6, 2013)

Your jar pic was looking good matt. I have not seen anything in mine yet but my temps hang out in the 60s a good bit of the time so I just gotsta wait some more. That being said I do like having something to peek at while I wait.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 6, 2013)

checked the jars today and they are really starting to take off!! the mycelium has grown little "fingers" that are reaching for new popcorn kernels everywhere. ill snap some more shots tomorow and post them up. all done shaking jars just waiting for full colonization and ill be starting my casing. 

i do have like 2-3 jars that dont appear to have any growth in them.....kinda wierd but i bet they get something going soon (i hope) wosrt case scenario they take a bit longer and i can just do a grain to grain with them once i clean out the other jars.

i plan on getting the quart sized jars for the next batch as well because 1/2 pint jars using popcorn seems a bit retarded. in my defense i was planing on doing PF tek with BRF and not popcorn when i went out and bought my jars. been reading a ton on casing and i think im just going to go with 100% vermiculite for the casing, pasturized.

anyways...hope everyone is doing well on thier adventure, post pics up if you want i would be glad to see them!!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 6, 2013)

technical dan said:


> Your jar pic was looking good matt. I have not seen anything in mine yet but my temps hang out in the 60s a good bit of the time so I just gotsta wait some more. That being said I do like having something to peek at while I wait.


you should get them temps up somehow, it makes a considerable difference.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 6, 2013)

I put a lid on my plastic box, so now no light is hitting the jars, I couldn't find my red lights got to ask my wife where they are. I left the lid opened on one side of the tote for some air exchange, I also lowered the light and now it's sitting on a aquarium screen cover
plus I raised the tote of the ground.. temps are steady at 78.3F. Here are two pictures


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## technical dan (Mar 6, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> you should get them temps up somehow, it makes a considerable difference.


Yep it would make it faster. I forgot to get a strofoam cooler at the store when I was there, I think that will help a bit esp. once I get some growth and the myc will generate a bit of heat. I dont really want to set an incubator up nor do I have a great space for it, but its doable and always an option. The temps are rising in my area and we can feel summer coming so at some point I'll have a nice ambient temp. 

Several days ago I was keeping the jars on top of a corner of my grow cab and that bumped it up a couple (or too much if in the wrong spot) but I took them off and they are just chillin on a shelf right now. 


I am also planning to up it to quarts after this run; I'll need a larger PC too.


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## Thundercat (Mar 7, 2013)

Thats why I never did quarts, the larger PCs can be pricey, so I just ran a ton of pints.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 7, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> I put a lid on my plastic box, so now no light is hitting the jars, I couldn't find my red lights got to ask my wife where they are. I left the lid opened on one side of the tote for some air exchange, I also lowered the light and now it's sitting on a aquarium screen cover
> plus I raised the tote of the ground.. temps are steady at 78.3F. Here are two picturesView attachment 2556912View attachment 2556913


have you though about using a 26w CFL and spray painting it black? this will put off some heat but no light..
im willing to bet Acid with your change in temps you will start seeing growth by end of weekend if not sooner....I have a question though, when you knocked up the jars did you make sure to squirt the solution down the sides of the jars?



technical dan said:


> Yep it would make it faster. I forgot to get a strofoam cooler at the store when I was there, I think that will help a bit esp. once I get some growth and the myc will generate a bit of heat. I dont really want to set an incubator up nor do I have a great space for it, but its doable and always an option. The temps are rising in my area and we can feel summer coming so at some point I'll have a nice ambient temp.
> 
> Several days ago I was keeping the jars on top of a corner of my grow cab and that bumped it up a couple (or too much if in the wrong spot) but I took them off and they are just chillin on a shelf right now.
> 
> ...





> have you though about using a 26w CFL and spray painting it black? this will put off some heat but no light..


if you get the styro cooler than just rig up the light in it somehow.....either way im sure you will get there in due time. Im the type of person who wants fast results...if i have to wait 2 weeks to see results i will but if theres something i can do to shorten that 2 weeks to 5 days i will go for it.

also as thundercat has mentioned you can always make a small incubator out of a couple of small totes and an aquarium heater...cheap and can be relativly small too so it will fit your space. 



Thundercat said:


> Thats why I never did quarts, the larger PCs can be pricey, so I just ran a ton of pints.


didnt really think about that, my PC may not fit quarts either so that may be a pipe dream. 


either way looking good. will get there eventually  good vibes to everyone!!


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 7, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> have you though about using a 26w CFL and spray painting it black? this will put off some heat but no light..
> im willing to bet Acid with your change in temps you will start seeing growth by end of weekend if not sooner....*I have a question though, when you knocked up the jars did you make sure to squirt the solution down the sides of the jars?*
> 
> 
> ...


Sure did Matt, I watched those videos "lest grow mushrooms" like 7 times in a row haha, so I remembered to point the needle towards the inside wall of the jar so the solution would run down the side of the jars wall.

Let's just hope so, temps are steady since yesterday so I'm keeping my fingers crossed this time to see some growth in my jars


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 7, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Sure did Matt, I watched those videos "lest grow mushrooms" like 7 times in a row haha, so I remembered to point the needle towards the inside wall of the jar so the solution would run down the side of the jars wall.
> 
> Let's just hope so, temps are steady since yesterday so I'm keeping my fingers crossed this time to see some growth in my jars



you will man, if my syringes were good im sure yours were as well since they were shipped same day they were prob same batch.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 7, 2013)

the only reason to do this is to a) distribute the spores more and b) makes it so you can see the growth as it starts. once again this is where im lazy but then again i think about the heath of my germinating spores. the center is mroe protected from light and temp changes so i tend to shoot my solution into the center of my corn, a downside to this is if i use too much solution the spores will run with the water to the bottom of my jars, which really isnt a problem, just dont set them on anything cold.(even down the sides if you use to much solution the spores will pool at the bottom)


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## canndo (Mar 7, 2013)

Your spores will adhere all the way down, and if you want you can shake the grain just after it is innoculated - I never do but there is no problem with it.


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## technical dan (Mar 7, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Thats why I never did quarts, the larger PCs can be pricey, so I just ran a ton of pints.


I think I will end up getting a larger PC no matter what I have a four quart one right now cuz it was cheaper then the bigger ones and I bought it before my current plan had completely developed. I can only fit two pints and a half pint into at once, and it only achieves 10 psi as a running pressure. The way I look at it the cost to space ratio improves as PCs increase in size.

I am hoping I will be able to fund it by selling some of this run to friends. At some point I want to get a bunch of jars going with P. galindoa and then let them sit n do their thing for 2-9 months. So being able to do this in quarts and in maybe 3 or 4 sterilization sessions to get a 12 pack of quart jars going is much more appealing than to do it in 12 PC sessions ( since the largest jar I can currently PC is a pint).


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## technical dan (Mar 7, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> if you get the styro cooler than just rig up the light in it somehow.....either way im sure you will get there in due time. Im the type of person who wants fast results...if i have to wait 2 weeks to see results i will but if theres something i can do to shorten that 2 weeks to 5 days i will go for it.
> 
> also as thundercat has mentioned you can always make a small incubator out of a couple of small totes and an aquarium heater...cheap and can be relativly small too so it will fit your space.
> 
> either way looking good. will get there eventually  good vibes to everyone!!


Yep I feel ya there if you can affect it (speed it up) why not do so. I would like to avoid plugging anything else in so I'm going to get the styro cooler today and see if I can get a nice temp distribution with it on a towel on top of my seedling cab. Yes I do have places I could put a scaled down aquarium heater style incubator and I may. But again I would like to avoid additional electrical consumption. I would like the faster colonization rate esp. for the golden teachers I am not as worried about the P. galindoa since they will be in the jars for a two month minimum anyway. I will also have better ambient temps as the seasons progress, either way I figure I and the mycelium will get there. 

Sendin out good vibes too


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 7, 2013)

i made a new thread on mycotopia.net...same username and same thread name as here. if anyone want to check it out they are welcome to but updates will be given here as main priority


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## Thundercat (Mar 7, 2013)

I can feel ya on needing a bigger one either way then dan. If you can only do 2 jars at once. I think mine was an 8 or 10 quart, I would run I believe 6 pint jars at a time. At one point when I first started I had 2 pcs and ran them both at once to do a huge run of jars to get going. I really think I'm gonna order up some bag kits from homestead and grow them out again. It will be an easy way for me to re-enter the shroom world in my current location.


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## Lothario (Mar 7, 2013)

I couldn't read this whole thread, but here's what I did several years ago



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9371873

I highly recommend the shroomery for a good source of info.


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## Thundercat (Mar 7, 2013)

Good read man, I will definitely try the trays uncased next time. I never had issues with my humidty not being at 99% so I'm sure it would work fine, and eliminate that whole set. Not that the casing is hard to do, but its another step, and another point for possible contams.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 7, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Good read man, I will definitely try the trays uncased next time. I never had issues with my humidty not being at 99% so I'm sure it would work fine, and eliminate that whole set. Not that the casing is hard to do, but its another step, and another point for possible contams.


ideally casing is a barrier for contams. IMNSEO casing is superior to non cased.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 8, 2013)

some mycelium pornz anyone?




out of the 12 jars 9 have growth, 3 will be fully colonized by sunday and i will case them, 3 more will be a few days behind and then the last 3 should be done by next weekend. the 3 jars that dont have any growth will be chucked if i dont see anything soon and re knocked to use for my second run. will use them for grain to grain transfers in around 21 jars. 12 pint sized and 9 1/2 pint sized. 

i will probabally be doing a poo casing which will consist of leeched cow poo and vermiculite (pasturized) for my bottom layer, then my substrate (colonized popcorn) for the second layer and then plain pasturized vermiculite for my 3rd layer...


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 8, 2013)

YaY Finally I got some growth in two of my jars, and these jars are from the second batch. I can clearly see mycelium growing around the inoculation points.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 8, 2013)

WOOOOOOT Ffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk nyeah man!!! im been waiting for someone else to report some sucess...kinda odd its from the second batch though....

hopefully all your jars start to colonize, Im thinking with the temp changes they will !!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 8, 2013)

what do you guys think about using poo and hay as a bottom layer? will hay work like straw or is it a no no....? I have a bail of hay thats going to go unused because my pig's are headed to the bacon house Sunday.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 8, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> WOOOOOOT Ffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk nyeah man!!! im been waiting for someone else to report some sucess...kinda odd its from the second batch though....
> 
> hopefully all your jars start to colonize, Im thinking with the temp changes they will !!


Hell Yeah!!! Yeah I think so too that's because of the warm and steady temps in there, but I'm still waiting for some growth on my first batch  
So so far so good


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 8, 2013)

i just want to figure out what im casing with. ................ugg should have enough fully colonized jars soo and want to get at least 1 pan started.....


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 8, 2013)

I'm thinking of knocking up rest of my jars, I got like 4 jars left. I'll still wait for the first batch, maybe there's going to be life after all in them if not, I'll just toss them fuckers out lol.


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## technical dan (Mar 8, 2013)

Sounds good guys. Good you got some moving acid. 

Thunder yep the baby PC with 2 jars at a time just isn't doin it for me. Good!! get it going again. 

I got my styro cooler and its on top of my seedling cab bumping it up 7 or 8 degrees F over ambient. The distribution of heat from the cab is uneven and higher than ideal in one spot so I'm testing to see if a water bath will reduce the temp differentials and it it does Ill get some containers and make TC's incubator just with a diff heat source.


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## canndo (Mar 8, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Good read man, I will definitely try the trays uncased next time. I never had issues with my humidty not being at 99% so I'm sure it would work fine, and eliminate that whole set. Not that the casing is hard to do, but its another step, and another point for possible contams.



You will be shooting yourself in the foot if you do not case. I know what they say, that casing is optional and that you will get the same results but, frankly, they are wrong, I have posted some pictures and I defy anyone to match those canopies without casing, and the yields are commensurate with the canopy.

There are a host of reasons to case and only a few not to - one being laziness.


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## canndo (Mar 8, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> some mycelium pornz anyone?
> 
> View attachment 2559134View attachment 2559135View attachment 2559136View attachment 2559137View attachment 2559138View attachment 2559139
> 
> ...



1. Don't use a "bottom layer", it invites contamination and does little good.
2. pure vermiculite makes a poor casing, you want something to lead the mycelium on.


Your growth is highly rhyzomorphic which is a very good sign so early on - if you do things right you could have a wonderful grow. You have a choice here, you can either use the corn as spawn into your leached manure or you can just use the corn straight. I don't think, however, that you have enough corn for a good yield all by itself. I'd go with your manure, plus straw or coir and a little vermiculite to take up the water slack at maybe 3 to one manure/grain. The longer the ratio of substrate to spawn the more danger of contamination, otherwise I'd say 10 or 12 to 1.


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## canndo (Mar 8, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> what do you guys think about using poo and hay as a bottom layer? will hay work like straw or is it a no no....? I have a bail of hay thats going to go unused because my pig's are headed to the bacon house Sunday.



bottom "layer" = bad idea. What you are doing is demanding that your well grown mycelium now make the long trip DOWNWARD to the bottom of another layer of "stuff" all the while using valuable nutrients in order to do so rather than storing up energy for pinning. There is a peak effficiency that you are looking for.



The first peak is when the surface of all of your grain is fully covered. This is the time you want either to spawn another substrate so that you can recharge the mycelium in the shortest amount of time or you want to lay the grain down - even this act will be wasting energy but it can't be helped, you will damage the mycelium and you must let it repair itself and in so doing it uses energy. The only energy you want it expending now is to travel through a low nutrient substrate to near the top - upward, not downward. You risk entrapping conamination, border breaks and fewer flushes with this "sandwich" approach. 

Hell, even waiting to flip your grow into a pinning cycle will diminish the energy of the organism.

Hay tends to have lots of seeds in it, seeds in your substrate are bad things, straw is better but you will need some practice with straw and the more the straw is chopped the better, an inch is good, a half an inch is better, a quarter inch better still. With that sort of density and a decent depth you can get HUGE grows.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 8, 2013)

so ill pick up some straw and run it through a food processor, add the manure at a 50/50 ratio? then lay the corn down in a black bag in my aluminum pans and then the hay/poo on top of it, wait for it to colonize to the straw then a thin layer of verm and fruit? or forget the thin layer of verm? or just use verm and poo? if hay is better i can get more bang for my buck using it as a bale is around 5 bucks, same price as a small bag of verm and i get 100x the mass. 

sorry i feel dense, hope im not coming off that way just trying to make sure i get it 100% so when i go to do my casing i do it right. i want larger yeilds so if i have to trial and error straw i will if it means higher yeilds than vermiculite.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 8, 2013)

what do you mean 



> Your growth is highly rhyzomorphic which is a very good sign so early on


is that the "finger" looking things that seems to be reaching to the new kernels?

the jars with the most of this, are they the ones i should use for G2G transfer?


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## MJG420 (Mar 8, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> so ill pick up some straw and run it through a food processor, add the manure at a 50/50 ratio? then lay the corn down in a black bag in my aluminum pans and then the hay/poo on top of it, wait for it to colonize to the straw then a thin layer of verm and fruit? or forget the thin layer of verm? or just use verm and poo? if hay is better i can get more bang for my buck using it as a bale is around 5 bucks, same price as a small bag of verm and i get 100x the mass.
> 
> sorry i feel dense, hope im not coming off that way just trying to make sure i get it 100% so when i go to do my casing i do it right. i want larger yeilds so if i have to trial and error straw i will if it means higher yeilds than vermiculite.


Great questions my friend.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 8, 2013)

> There are two types of mycelium growth: rhizomorphic, and tomentose. both types are present in every mushroom grow, regardless of strain, species, etc.
> 
> Rhizomorphic mycelium is typically where the fruits will pop up from....this is why you always hear the word strong associated with rhizomorphic mycelium.
> 
> ...


-srgtm1a-
Mycotopia.net

https://mycotopia.net/forums/faq-frequently-asked-questions/14309-rhizomorphic-fluffy.html


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## canndo (Mar 8, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> so ill pick up some straw and run it through a food processor, add the manure at a 50/50 ratio? then lay the corn down in a black bag in my aluminum pans and then the hay/poo on top of it, wait for it to colonize to the straw then a thin layer of verm and fruit? or forget the thin layer of verm? or just use verm and poo? if hay is better i can get more bang for my buck using it as a bale is around 5 bucks, same price as a small bag of verm and i get 100x the mass.
> 
> sorry i feel dense, hope im not coming off that way just trying to make sure i get it 100% so when i go to do my casing i do it right. i want larger yeilds so if i have to trial and error straw i will if it means higher yeilds than vermiculite.



Nope, you are still missing the point. What you are trying to do is increase the mass of mycelium you have. Now consider the proper approach. One first isolates a strain on agar, then puts it in contact with another healthy looking monocaryotic mass so that it has mated. Now you have just a little patch of dychariotic mycelium that is capable of fruiting (yes, you can fruit on agar - you get miniature mushrooms). Then you take a the very least a hyphae or strand of that and put it in your grain. Now you will have many times your original mass growing all over the grain. You can stop here, or, as you wish to do, you will use those kernels as innoculation points in another larger non-sterile substrate like straw or manure or compost. From each of those kernels will grow more mycelium but you want this to be a three dimensional process. If you simply layer your mass substrate over a layer of colonized corn you will be forcing your mycelium to grow slowly upward (or downward). No, what you want to do is to mix your now covered kernels in with your substrate. See to it that each kernel is surrounded by substrate, you want to have your kernels all through, mixed in, with your manure or whathave you. See,this is what I am talking about when I say that PF tek is no good. Those who use this process don't really understand dimentionality and they think in "layers". (not carping at you, just pointing this out).

What you will find if you broadcast kernels throughout your manure is that each kernel will send out mycelium in three dimentions growing through the substrate eventualy meeting up with the mycelium from other kernels and causing your entire substrate to become completely filled with myclium in the shortest amount of time. Had you layered your corn you would have to wait until the mycelium finally all worked it's way upward.


Your 50/50 mix of manure and straw is fine I suppose but I think you are inviting disaster. Were I you I would mix my manure up with vermiculite (coarse) in 70/30 manure/vermiculite. OR, I would abandon the manure and go straight straw, cooked in water at 160 - 180 for an hour or two and then let drain for a few hours. This automaticaly gives you a perfect moisture content. Then I would broadcast your colonized kernels as best I could all throughout the straw. Put all of that in a black plastic bag with a few holes preferably on the sides so light won't get through the holes - and then wait until the straw is fully colonized - maybe 5 to 12 days.

Manure is messy, it is inherently deeply contaminated - although it has some of the most potent nutrients they are not necessary and manure is hell for a beginner to bring to the correct moisture level.


Consider that the reason folks use vermiculite in their substrate is to deal with water issues, but what you are doing is diluting that nutrient with something that offers nothing save moisture and make your substrate more air permiable. So why not just go with straight straw and save yourself all sorts of problems.


If you will allow me to preach, everyone seems to want to make these exotic mixtures of this and that, manure, straw,coir, coffee grounds and the like. If you understand the mushroom you come to realize that because it is a primary and secondary decomposer, it will eat anything and most times additives are simply a waste of time.

The mycelum wants a degree of nutrient - but it can extract what it needs from almost anything. It wants a rather exact content of water, it needs the substrate to be such that it doesn't have to try too hard to invade that substrate with it's hyphae and it needs some way of exhaling co2 and inhaling oxygen. The mycelium will transport nutrient from one place to another - radioactive tracers have shown that nutrient from the bottom of a grow will be transported all the way to the fruit. Oxygen will travel as well but the more ways you can offer your mycelium what it needs the faster it will grow.

The simpler you make things the more your mushroom will like growing for you. The fact that manure, leached or not will become a sodden mass means that you will encourage contamination and actually create anaerobic conditions within your substrate structure. Those conditions will promote all sorts of contamination and it will slow down the mycelium.


If I have a species that requires manure based substrates I will always compost first. Composting will bring beneficial microbes out of the woodwork and it will create more basic nutrient that the mushroom enjoys
but I will only do that for secondary decomposers - those that are on top of the decomposition cycle. P. Cubensis is not one of those, it is just as happy working off of primary substrates such as straw. Now what is manure? it is the dead and live bodies of microorganisms and partly digested grasses and grains. that being the case, why bother with it as you can give your mushroom undigested straw and or grain just as easily.


Now, the secret to high yields has little to do with exotic mixtures and everything to do with timing. Your pinning strategy will be the primary driver to high yields. What you are attempting to do is to have the greatest mass of mycelium you can have - in the shortest amount of time because each hour an already established bit of mycelium continues to feed off of it's little bit of nutrient, the more of that "power", that nutrient, is being lost simply to the metabolism of the organism.


Say I lay out a bed of colonized grain but I keep that bed in the dark for three weeks before I case it and fruit it, I will have a sparse yield because the mycelium has been spending it's time and energy breaking down the substrate and consoldidating it's hold on the grow. 80 percent of your entire yield will come from your first two flushes so the better your first flush the bigger your oveall yield will be. Remember also that your second flush is already growing even as your first flush is getting ready to be picked.


Proper timing dictates that your mycelium just barely be finished expanding to all the area where there is nutrient - and then, very quickly, be set to pin.

PF tek does not do this, it depends upon the mushrooms aging cycle to trigger fruiting. If the mycelium is old enough it will begin to fruit regardless of the situation (even if there is little or no light). PF waits for that cake to be super saturated with mycelium - in fact, some suggest that "just to be on the safe side" one wait even longer - so that any spots in the middle of the cake be fully engulfed as well - all the while the already established mycelium is getting old, and using up the nutrient it is in contact with. In effect, a pf cake is half dead before it will yield it's first flush. What you want is for everything to be at the very peak of freshness as you are triggering your fruiting.


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## canndo (Mar 8, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> what do you mean
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those finger things tend to indicate vigor, they tend to indicate a dicharyotic mass (though monocharyotic mycelium can be rhyzomorphic as well), you will find that the majority of primordia eminate from the ropey, rhyzomorph, with the length of those "fingers" covered in tiny ultra white "knots" that will turn to pins and then into mushrooms. Yes the ropey stuff is the best to transplant or to propagate from.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 8, 2013)

thanks for taking the time to explain all that....as always much appreciated....

actually works out for me anyways as i would rather just deal with straw anyways than try and work with poo. 

will head out and grab a bale of straw tomorow...

do you think putting the straw in a food processor is a good idea or just cut it up by hand into 1 inch pieces? 

BTW that post you just made explained alot...i think i can now move on to casing with a little more assurance.


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## canndo (Mar 8, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> thanks for taking the time to explain all that....as always much appreciated....
> 
> actually works out for me anyways as i would rather just deal with straw anyways than try and work with poo.
> 
> ...



First, make sure that straw is CLEAN - the stuff that has been left out in the rain and has rotted or turned grey or black will not work. 

There are several reasons for shredding straw. The first is to get inside of that waxy surface as the waxy outer layer will prohibit the straw from absorbing the right amount of water. The second is that straw is not as nutritious as other substrates. It is a fraction as nutritous as grains, especially rye but you can compensate for that - by compressing the straw so there is more to it in a given container. The finer you make the straw the more you can condense it and the more you can condense it the faster your mycelium will run through it and the more nutrient is available to the mycelium.


So chop it up. I don't know how much you are doing but cutting it with scissors is nuts. I don't know how well your blender works but you can try. you can also try putting straw into a trash barrel and putting a weed whacker in there. Maybe you know someone with an electric or gas powered shredder.


Now don't forget the drill when it comes to straw, submerge it ALL in a large amount of water and soak it at 160 - 180 degrees for several hours, then let it drain - you MUST do your mixing on the same day, no shining it on in favor of a bowl. As soon as your temperature drops to about 90 degrees, mix your spawn into the straw on a clean table top and put it into your container, push it down as hard as you possibly can and the deeper the container the better (up until about 12 inches). Leave room at the top for your casing.

One last thing, don't economize on the heat or water - do not reuse your water, after two batches that water becomes toxic to just about everything - it will kill grass, weeds and I think bugs as well, but straw pasteurized in that water will never let anything grow, including your mycelium. I play it safe and don't reuse the water even once. My shaggy mane crop will not tolerate even a little of that over steeped juice.

You might want to keep some of the straw steep, it works well instead of regular water when you cook grain and it is a nice additive to agar as well.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 8, 2013)

you have lost me on the not re using the water thing. 

are you saying once i fill my pot up with my chopped up straw and water and pasturize it, to drain it and discard the excess water?


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## polyarcturus (Mar 8, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> you have lost me on the not re using the water thing.
> 
> are you saying once i fill my pot up with my chopped up straw and water and pasteurize it, to drain it and discard the excess water?


yes. except if your using it for an agar mix or grain soak where it will be sterilized completely in the PC.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 8, 2013)

im interested in agar..dont think right now is the time to learn it but still interested. 

do you just PC the water you mix in with the agar or do you PC the already mixed agar?


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## canndo (Mar 8, 2013)

Poly has it - don't reuse the water. The very first time I experimented with straw I ran through a whole bail, I used the same water throughout - my first two bags came out beautiful all the rest wound up being a slimy disgusting mess - I had no idea what I had done wrong but chalked it up to unclean conditions so I went ahead, chopped up another BAIL of straw and put it a portion at a time back into a 55 gallon drum - sure enough, my first two bags worked out perfectly and the rest was evil smelling muck. It was only then that I realized that it was something accumulating in the boiling (steeping) water. I don't want you to make the same mistake.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 8, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> im interested in agar..dont think right now is the time to learn it but still interested.
> 
> do you just PC the water you mix in with the agar or do you PC the already mixed agar?


its easy as 123. not much more difficult than grain and G2g

look in my thread i go over it. agar agar, honey and potato flakes. mix well. 2 table spoon will fill my small jars perfect. innoc via, tissue from inside fruit, piece of grain, spore solution, dry spores. let it colonize and use that shit. most of the time i just fill colonized agar with sterile popcorn after im done using it.


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## canndo (Mar 8, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> im interested in agar..dont think right now is the time to learn it but still interested.
> 
> do you just PC the water you mix in with the agar or do you PC the already mixed agar?


While agar methods are clearly the best for this sort of work, you do need a hood or a box and it adds a new level of complexity that you really don't need yet. Again as Poly says, your using straw steep in your agar will greatly help your grow especially if you intend to grow on straw - there is something about excecising your mycelium by exposing it to the final element of your grow early on. If you intend to grow on corn, try steeping a bit of corn and using that water instead of distilled, if you intend to grow on coir, boil a bit of coir in water and use that in your agar, the same goes with manure - only a tiny bit, but what it does it pre-adapt your organism to do well in it's final home.

This however is very advanced stuff, don't let what I say here trouble you, its just a trick for very advanced users - oh, and the inclusion of such steep or stock will help aleviate scescnce (sp). The tendency for mycelium to sector, or become old as all mycelium eventualy will. If you force it to use enzymes that it usually doesn't need because it grows on some nutrient where it is unnecessary the mycelium will begin to grow weak and won't have the same vigor it originaly had. If you are taking clones from clones from clones and you always grow on the same medium eventually your mycelium will get old and finally be unable to fruit. In many cases the first sign of this is that your fruit will no longer produce spores - or they will be albinos - while this is wonderful in the short term, your preciously isolated stock is now sick and subject to disease or grow feeble. Feeding it a sequential variety of different types of nutrient will forstall that tendency.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 8, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> its easy as 123. not much more difficult than grain and G2g
> 
> look in my thread i go over it. agar agar, honey and potato flakes. mix well. 2 table spoon will fill my small jars perfect. innoc via, tissue from inside fruit, piece of grain, spore solution, dry spores. let it colonize and use that shit. most of the time i just fill colonized agar with sterile popcorn after im done using it.


well if i do use agar im going to be using petri dishes....or would like to unless theres something wrong with petri dishes that im unaware of. 



canndo said:


> *While agar methods are clearly the best for this sort of work, you do need a hood or a box and it adds a new level of complexity that you really don't need yet. Again as Poly says, your using straw steep in your agar will greatly help your grow especially if you intend to grow on straw - there is something about excecising your mycelium by exposing it to the final element of your grow early on. If you intend to grow on corn, try steeping a bit of corn and using that water instead of distilled, if you intend to grow on coir, boil a bit of coir in water and use that in your agar, the same goes with manure - only a tiny bit, but what it does it pre-adapt your organism to do well in it's final home.
> *
> This however is very advanced stuff, don't let what I say here trouble you, its just a trick for very advanced users - oh, and the inclusion of such steep or stock will help aleviate scescnce (sp). The tendency for mycelium to sector, or become old as all mycelium eventualy will. If you force it to use enzymes that it usually doesn't need because it grows on some nutrient where it is unnecessary the mycelium will begin to grow weak and won't have the same vigor it originaly had. If you are taking clones from clones from clones and you always grow on the same medium eventually your mycelium will get old and finally be unable to fruit. In many cases the first sign of this is that your fruit will no longer produce spores - or they will be albinos - while this is wonderful in the short term, your preciously isolated stock is now sick and subject to disease or grow feeble. Feeding it a sequential variety of different types of nutrient will forstall that tendency.


i understand the bold part completely, the other part i partially understand.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 8, 2013)

either way i dont want to get too advanced yet, still learning and i feel i need to get my first grow under my belt before i move onto bigger and better teks...

i do plan on picking up a bail of straw tomorow and sending it a little at a time through the food processor, finely chopping it up......then i will make a straw/popcorn cake and let that colonize. 

thoughts on trying to fruit a small amount of sub and verm in a small area to see what happens?? like a micro FC?


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## polyarcturus (Mar 8, 2013)

small jars a reusable, glass petri dishes are expensive and plastic ones require you make a special agar mix that is pourable therefore more prone to contamination.
as for fruiting something small, just mix it like 50/50 ration or even a 60/40 or 70/30(spawn to "bulk" sub ratio) let it colonize for a few day put in the FC, wait a few days for pins then case.


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## technical dan (Mar 8, 2013)

I got a couple tubs for an incubator and its sitting on top of my cab with the water at 77 deg F and the inside sitting right around 74 deg F so that should speed things up a bit. The lights in the cab are on for 18 hours a day right now but I think I am going to start a 12/12 solo cup run in there once I move the current seedling out. Will the dark period and subsequent cooling/ inconsistent temp of incubation chamber negatively affect the mycelium or would it just be a bit slower due to the average temp being lower? 

Canndo, poly do either of you (or anyone else) have experience with ethanol extracts? I have been reading various methods and procedures for doing the extraction some from mushrooms/ fruit bodies and one by Adam Gottlieb (1976) where he used LC and then extracted from the growth in the culture rather than fruiting. Could I fruit and then extract from the mycelium or would the vast majority of the psilocybin and psilocin have been transferred into the fruits? Any idea whether this be an effective, impossible, or impractical? 

If interested there are a few procedures posted here: http://forums.lycaeum.org/index.php?topic=26844.0 including parts of Adam Gottlieb which can be goggled for the complete text.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 8, 2013)

best to extract from fruits is what i hear, mycleium can be iffy since it doesnt really start to produce the compounds we want till then.


as for your ,mycelium growth. the temp swings are fine, it will slow growth as you said due to the average temps being lower. but IMO this is a good thing, 12 hours for your mycelium to grow rigorously as well as contams, and 12 hours for the mycelium the dominant organism in the container, to chill as well as the other organisms giving your mycelium a higher chance to resist contam. plus it is conducive with nature so i approve.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 9, 2013)

My two little jars


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 9, 2013)

My first batch I don't know about it, no sign of life nothing, nada. So I think I'll wait till tue. and if nothing happens till then I'll be throwing them jars into garbage.

I also will be knocking up rest of my four jars that I got left today at night.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 9, 2013)

dont throw the jars away....just the contents of the jars  i really find it hard to believe that none of your jars from spores101 got anything.....i mean i know your not lying just seems weird...

at least you got something going now its easy street.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 9, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> dont throw the jars away....just the contents of the jars  i really find it hard to believe that none of your jars from spores101 got anything.....i mean i know your not lying just seems weird...
> 
> at least you got something going now its easy street.


Yeah man, none of the jars got any life in them, I'll still keep them till tue. if nothing by then their going bye bye.

You think it's safe to use the same jars? I mean I'll washed them fuckers good and shit but still you think it's a good idea? Because I was planning on throwing them fuckers out, jars and all.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 9, 2013)

your going to be sterilizing them in the PC anyways man...fuck yeah its safe..


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## canndo (Mar 9, 2013)

Throw them out jar a and all - if some jars from the same syringe grew and some didn't, then you most likely have some contamination in the jar and you just can't see it.


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## Thundercat (Mar 9, 2013)

Now that you guys are talking about it it might have been spores101 I had the issue with too. I ordered up about 6 3lb bags of steralized rye berries to try them out. They were in sealed filter patch grow bags. I had 3 strains I think, and shot each of them into 2 bags, and got zero growth from any of them. It was a huge waste I had been 100% more successful with my wild bird seed and homemade syringes. I can't remember where I bought the rye from but it looked good when it arrived so I can't say for sure what the issue was but like I've said before in this thread my syringes were to clear for my taste.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 9, 2013)

canndo said:


> Throw them out jar a and all - if some jars from the same syringe grew and some didn't, then you most likely have some contamination in the jar and you just can't see it.


Yes sir if you say so, actually there's no sign of any life even contams. maybe they're there but can't just see it.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 9, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Now that you guys are talking about it it might have been spores101 I had the issue with too. I ordered up about 6 3lb bags of steralized rye berries to try them out. They were in sealed filter patch grow bags. I had 3 strains I think, and shot each of them into 2 bags, and got zero growth from any of them. It was a huge waste I had been 100% more successful with my wild bird seed and homemade syringes. I can't remember where I bought the rye from but it looked good when it arrived so I can't say for sure what the issue was but like I've said before in this thread *my syringes were to clear for my taste*.


Thunder, I think it was me. My syringes looked like plain water even took a closer look to see if anything is floating around but I didn't see anything, but that was my first time looking at a spore syringe so I thought maybe it just should looks like that. I'm not bashing spores101, Matt had luck with them so maybe it was just me or my syringes.

But when I got my syringe from sporeworks, I was like WoW I could actually see big ass clumps floating, and already got mycelium growing in two of my jars that I knocked up on march 4th.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 9, 2013)

did you make sure to shake up the syringe before inoculating? i have 3 jars that arent doing shit either and 9 that are doing well. i think maybe the 3 that are not doing shit are from the second syringe that i forgot to shake up....


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## Thundercat (Mar 9, 2013)

Thats all I'm saying acid is I like seeing spores in my syringes. I know they can be there either way, but mentally its just nice seeing them.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 9, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> did you make sure to shake up the syringe before inoculating? i have 3 jars that arent doing shit either and 9 that are doing well. i think maybe the 3 that are not doing shit are from the second syringe that i forgot to shake up....


Matt, I shook the shit out of it haha


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 9, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Thats all I'm saying acid is I like seeing spores in my syringes. I know they can be there either way, but mentally its just nice seeing them.


Hahah Thunder exactly I like to see things to believe it's there, I mean I know spores are microscopic and shit but still if I see it I know it's there


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 9, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Thats all I'm saying acid is I like seeing spores in my syringes. I know they can be there either way, but mentally its just nice seeing them.


i agree 100% here, its nice to see that you got what you ordered. i prob wont order from spores 101 again...infact im hoping to never have to order from anywhere again...going to try my hand at g2g soon and keep it rolling like that untill i can afford to get some agar (just because i think its cool to watch) and will prob be trying to spore print and make my own couple of syringes. though i would like to try to grow that penis envy strain as i have heard its extremely potent.


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## canndo (Mar 9, 2013)

technical dan said:


> I got a couple tubs for an incubator and its sitting on top of my cab with the water at 77 deg F and the inside sitting right around 74 deg F so that should speed things up a bit. The lights in the cab are on for 18 hours a day right now but I think I am going to start a 12/12 solo cup run in there once I move the current seedling out. Will the dark period and subsequent cooling/ inconsistent temp of incubation chamber negatively affect the mycelium or would it just be a bit slower due to the average temp being lower?
> 
> Canndo, poly do either of you (or anyone else) have experience with ethanol extracts? I have been reading various methods and procedures for doing the extraction some from mushrooms/ fruit bodies and one by Adam Gottlieb (1976) where he used LC and then extracted from the growth in the culture rather than fruiting. Could I fruit and then extract from the mycelium or would the vast majority of the psilocybin and psilocin have been transferred into the fruits? Any idea whether this be an effective, impossible, or impractical?
> 
> If interested there are a few procedures posted here: http://forums.lycaeum.org/index.php?topic=26844.0 including parts of Adam Gottlieb which can be goggled for the complete text.


You can extract from the mycelium and it will contain what you are after but you will also be left with what comes over from your grain. Gottlieb latched on to some old industrialized methods for making penicilin and extrapolated from that. The proceedure is crude and certainly not worth the effort when you can simply go another few steps and have fruit. That was back when only a few had the secret of Maria Sabina's Gold.


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## canndo (Mar 9, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Yes sir if you say so, actually there's no sign of any life even contams. maybe they're there but can't just see it.


take one outside, open it just a bit and get a sniff, if it smells like rotten apples then you are contaminated with a very common bacteria that is not easy to see and changes the PH of the substrate to the point where your mycelium will not germinate.


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## canndo (Mar 9, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Hahah Thunder exactly I like to see things to believe it's there, I mean I know spores are microscopic and shit but still if I see it I know it's there



If you want to get good at this you are going to have to be able to work without seeing the things you are battling or working with. Learn to see the unseeable, sense the microbes all around you - learn to understand and see the dark side of life, the decomposers and you will be a far better grower when you do.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 9, 2013)

canndo said:


> take one outside, open it just a bit and get a sniff, if it smells like rotten apples then you are contaminated with a very common bacteria that is not easy to see and changes the PH of the substrate to the point where your mycelium will not germinate.


I forgot to say that first batch of my jars that are not showing any sign of life are sitting on a shelf at constant 68F. But I'll take one outside and see what's up. Thank you Canndo.


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## technical dan (Mar 9, 2013)

Nice growth acid.

Thanks poly. 

So after fruiting could I steep/ sit the myc. in water, filter, evaporate, and then wash with ethanol? I imagine there would still be things from the grain that are soluble in both water and ethanol but is that bad other than being less pure end product than other methods? Would this be a reasonable way to get a dose-able solution?

I want do the ethanol extraction on fruits/ stones, it seems to be a great way to measure doses and to reduce and store material. I also just want to see the pure compound since I can pretty easily; it'll be fun like making hash oil. Hooray for extractions!


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## MJG420 (Mar 9, 2013)

Hopefully here in the next couple I will be right there with you guys! The anticipation is KILLING ME!!!! This also brings up a good question I have, is it alright when checking my jars to move my corn/verm mixture around to uncover anything perhaps not along the side of the jar? Considering starting another set of backup jars just in case these don't pan out.


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## canndo (Mar 9, 2013)

technical dan said:


> Nice growth acid.
> 
> Thanks poly.
> 
> ...



Well good luck, no home chemist I have ever read about or talked to has managed to isolate the pure or protopure active chemical. My experiments yield a sickly yellow paste that is far more potent than anything else around but I doubt it is more than about 30 percent pure - AND in order to preserve it, it must be mixed with an antioxidant which will dilute that purity. Methanol seems to be the solvent of choice


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## technical dan (Mar 9, 2013)

Ok, I do not have much experience with home chemistry so I doubt that I would achieve your ~30% purity, but I still want to make a psychedelic solution. Would it be stable to store to an ethanol solution in the freezer, or to store a supersaturated (via evaporation) solution in the freezer? This is one method others have used so I guess I would like to hear your take on it.

Yes methanol seemed to be what the serious/ experienced people used I would like to do at least the first one with ethanol since it is readily available consumable, and I already have some.


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## canndo (Mar 9, 2013)

I think you would be able to get to that purity with about any solvent. If evertything is cracker dry and your solvents are dry as well you want to prewash your mushroom powder with something that does not dissolve your target component. Mushrooms have fats and esters (?) and protiens and all sorts of things in them. Many of these things will dissolve in both your specific solvent and your nonspecific solvent so you want to wash as much of that crap from your product as possible. I don't remember which is the best - petrolium either maybe? It is a tough research because everyone has a different approach and even A. Shilgin winds up being wrong (about a precipitate being the target substance when in fact it is not). Anyway, after you have filtered that and tossed the solvent, and dried your materiel you can wash it with methanol - methanol without water, and get a yellow gum or tar like substance. It is not very stable and of course the strength can vary but if you mix that gum up with ascorbic acid and keep the mixture in the freezer it will last some amount of time.


I once did this with 91 percent rubbing alcohol and mixed the resulting almost orange gum (one would have thought there to be some blue in there somewhere), with flour. The resulting pills were a huge hit. I figure each pill was in the 15 - 20 mg range, no stomach cramps, no confusion. The ones I had left over I put in the freezer and when 
I took them out to distribute them again, they were a shadow of their former selves, perhaps a third the potency. there is much to be learned about this sort of extraction and the results, when done right are far superior to the mushroom itself, without the nausea, the frenetic energy, the confusion and the stomach discomfort (contrary to mescaline which, no matter how pure, will still impart cramps and nausea).


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## technical dan (Mar 9, 2013)

Ok thank you for that explanation and the great amounts of info you have provided for this thread. I had read Shilgin's response to someone where the precipitate was said to be the target and I had been going with that understanding thanks for straightening that out. 

I will probably asking for your knowledge again once I am (about to be) preforming the extraction.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 9, 2013)

i reuse all my jars, wash with hot water and soap, dry, clean with iso, fill with substrate PC. never had a contam i could trace back to the PC. always a dirty needle or infected culture, or left jar open too long for me.


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## Thundercat (Mar 9, 2013)

I don't see the need to process things like all that. Its a beautiful natural thing in its natural state, why start screwing with it and washing it with solvents and shit. I'm not a fan of BHO for the same reason. I get more then high enough smoking regular weed, eating mostly organic edibles. With mushrooms I feel like its disrespectful to the mushroom to abuse it like that. As far as the no nausea, cramps, or confusion. I find all those things to be very subjective. I've had and not had nausea off the same shrooms, and I find confusion to be very strain specific. The Koh Samoi that I liked so much did carry a mental weight that could leave you confused. The South Americans were very visual and didn't have hardly any "mind fuck". The russian Ereals I grew were an awesome mix of both.


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## canndo (Mar 9, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> I don't see the need to process things like all that. Its a beautiful natural thing in its natural state, why start screwing with it and washing it with solvents and shit. I'm not a fan of BHO for the same reason. I get more then high enough smoking regular weed, eating mostly organic edibles. With mushrooms I feel like its disrespectful to the mushroom to abuse it like that. As far as the no nausea, cramps, or confusion. I find all those things to be very subjective. I've had and not had nausea off the same shrooms, and I find confusion to be very strain specific. The Koh Samoi that I liked so much did carry a mental weight that could leave you confused. The South Americans were very visual and didn't have hardly any "mind fuck". The russian Ereals I grew were an awesome mix of both.



Ah - what you say is true, that it may well be an insult to the organism to reduce those lovely fruit to a mush in order to extract it's esscence On the other hand, there are some who will not take this sacrament at all if they might be subject to extreme discomfort (and i don't mean taste). Now would the mushroom object to this if it were the only way?

I have done many extractions but only on the leavings, the dust and particles that cling to the picked mushrooms - it is an eaiser job, it does not violate my code and I think it might just help folks.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 9, 2013)

so i took my 1 fully colonized jar and cased it in pure verm...brought it up to 170 for at least 39 min and brought up to field moisture...then spread the corn around in it and pressed down. its in a throw away pan lined with a black bag and back in the incubator, 

will be using straw but i wanted to test this verm tek and i had one jar starting to sweat so i just did it.

my food processor dosent make the straw into a pawder but it does do a good job of shredding it, i fig about 3 hours of processsing straw i will be gtg to pasturize and case my last 7 jars


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## technical dan (Mar 9, 2013)

I am planning to eat the fruits before messing with extractions. I have not been overly uncomfortable from when I have eaten shrooms and I don't mind the taste but I would see/ try this method at least once to see how it is. With weed I get/ appreciate the different highs from flower and oil. I also like to keep oil around for when I hurt myself, it's great for pain relief far more effective than herb IMO. At this time as I have said I would like to try an extraction, but this could change after watching and living with the organism. I can see your points especially how it disrespects the organism I agree (to a degree) that it does, the modification/ processing does fundamentally alter the resulting substance away from the life that created it and thus the extract is not equivalent to the natural form. It is not respectful to the organism since you(I) are altering it rather than accepting it as is. But I also see (at this time) value in extracts.


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## Lothario (Mar 9, 2013)

canndo said:


> You will be shooting yourself in the foot if you do not case. I know what they say, that casing is optional and that you will get the same results but, frankly, they are wrong, I have posted some pictures and I defy anyone to match those canopies without casing, and the yields are commensurate with the canopy.
> 
> There are a host of reasons to case and only a few not to - one being laziness.



Are you serious??? Casing layer is completely unnecessary and obsolete for cubes.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 9, 2013)

So upon closer inspection of the jars from the first batch I noticed that right under the inoculation point the substrate looked like it's "wet", I tried to take a picture and I don't if you guys can see anything in those pictures, rest of the substrate looked ok like a it should no contaminations or any other nasties. I was just wondering about that patch of substrate looking kinda wet. Any of you guys have seen anything like this before? 

Ok here are two best pictures 

Plus I got 5 more jars cooling down right now so I can knock them up in the morning.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 10, 2013)

i say just toss em man....if they were your last hope then i would say give em some more time but where you have more jars cooling and some already colonizing i would say its safer to just ditch em.


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## technical dan (Mar 10, 2013)

Seems to me like a contam. but I would wait for a second opinion from an experienced individual.


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## technical dan (Mar 10, 2013)

Prepping stuff today to inoc. 4 more pints with P. galindoa in the next couple days


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 10, 2013)

technical dan said:


> Seems to me like a contam. but I would wait for a second opinion from an experienced individual.


Yeah I'll wait for maybe Poly, Canndo or Thundercat to take a look at them pictures and see what they think.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 10, 2013)

I think that "wet" looking substrate around inoculation points was/is a contamination, I got same thing going in few of my jars from the second batch, jars from the second batch with "wet" looking substrate are not showing any signs of life, and when I take a whiff around the injection points it smells "strange" plus those jars with "wet" looking substrate have some congestion on the inside walls, looks like little droplets of water but they're tiny. 

So I'll just wait for an opinion from more experience growers


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## Thundercat (Mar 10, 2013)

I tend to agree it doesn't look right to me. I'm not sure if its actual contram growth, or moisture released from a contam we can't see yet.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 10, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> I tend to agree it doesn't look right to me. I'm not sure if its actual contram growth, or moisture released from a contam we can't see yet.


Thunder, you think I should keep the jars and keep an eye on it? rite now I got them in my "incubator" tote with the rest of the jars or should I just set them aside?


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## Thundercat (Mar 10, 2013)

I'd set them aside watch them a few more days, and then toss them. Don't open them either way incase it is a contam.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 10, 2013)

if they spread its a contam, but it could be from the water in the syringe making a wetter area thus darker. but some how i doubt it, it looks to be a bacterial contamination.


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## canndo (Mar 11, 2013)

Lothario said:


> Are you serious??? Casing layer is completely unnecessary and obsolete for cubes.



Not if you want to get a genuine yield that is orchestrated and nearly complete after flush three. I have plenty of evidence to back my statement up, pictures as well. Otherwise you are simply hoping that you will make up yield by continuing to eek out a few extra grams flush after flush.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 11, 2013)

went and checked on casing....seem to have had alot of growth since saturday, chucked out the corn in the 3 jars that werent doing shit. have 8 more that are doing good. 1 slacker that isnt colonized as much as the others.

took some pics forgot cam so im heading back in a few once wife gets home. boiled some straw (didnt have a thermometer to bring it to 170 so just brought to boil and strained.) going to case one more pan today so i can do a side by side verm/straw will give me a better idea of things and i planned on using the straw anyways. 

0 contams...should i be a bit worried about that? i mean my first time i was expecting contamination, just had 3 dud jars that smelled like.....wet popcorn kernels lol

anyways pics coming later tonight i hope...wanted to blast a pic of the verm casing see if i should start fruiting but my guess is no. might give it another 2 days.....its so tempting to just fruit, especially when you have more jars colonixing well.

i do have a question...theres some condensation on the sides of my jars....im just chalking that up to by product of ...looking for word.........cant find it...creb cycle maybe ummmm i know theres a fucking word for it..

anyways cant think of the word but its when a organism uses any nutrient theres always a by product or a waste...like people taking a shit....ya know...


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## polyarcturus (Mar 11, 2013)

condensations happens just means you substrate is a little over saturated.


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## growyurown (Mar 11, 2013)

Not to ruin the thread. I pc	6 jars of corn and took the pc lid off 2 hours later thinking they would be cool to innoc. They are hot as hell, should I re-pc and wait 12 hours...


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 11, 2013)

heres some pics


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 11, 2013)

growyurown said:


> Not to ruin the thread. I pc 6 jars of corn and took the pc lid off 2 hours later thinking they would be cool to innoc. They are hot as hell, should I re-pc and wait 12 hours...


as long as the foil remains on them they should be fne.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 11, 2013)

i had to do 2 batches, 8 and 4 ....let the 8 sit in the fridge till all were cooled.then knocked em up


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 11, 2013)

Damn Matt!!! I see White!!! haha Lots of White!! Man you're going to have a one hell of summer buddy  shit looks nice 

I'll have some pictures of my 3 jars tomorrow, ain't nothing compared to yours man haha but as long as I get just a bit of mushies for me and my wife I be good


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## MJG420 (Mar 11, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> heres some pics
> 
> View attachment 2564328View attachment 2564343View attachment 2564344View attachment 2564345View attachment 2564350View attachment 2564351View attachment 2564352View attachment 2564355View attachment 2564357View attachment 2564359View attachment 2564360View attachment 2564367View attachment 2564368View attachment 2564329View attachment 2564331View attachment 2564332View attachment 2564334




DAMN BRO!!!! Looking AWESOME!


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## growyurown (Mar 11, 2013)

I dont use foil. I follow canndo's tek. I re-did my corn though


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## Thundercat (Mar 12, 2013)

Looking good man, love the growth! Those jars are looking great, and your gonna fruiting that tray in no time woot!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 12, 2013)

thanks guys!!

how does the verm casing look? think i can fruit it today or tomorow?

i know the straw is going to take a little while, i want to compare the verm casing with the straw casing as far as time it takes to colonize and amount of fruits i get from each...if the amount of colonizing time is worth the additional fruits i dont mind using the straw..i know the straw will take longer to colonize but i think the fruits are going to be bigger because they can pull nutrient from the straw. 

i just want to see pinning!! lol


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## polyarcturus (Mar 12, 2013)

i would wait a few more days.


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## canndo (Mar 12, 2013)

growyurown said:


> Not to ruin the thread. I pc 6 jars of corn and took the pc lid off 2 hours later thinking they would be cool to innoc. They are hot as hell, should I re-pc and wait 12 hours...




Simpy be patient. If they are REALLY hot use something clean to get them out of your PC. They will be semi-sterile for a bit and you may as well use that steriliity to your advantage.


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## canndo (Mar 12, 2013)

MJG420 said:


> DAMN BRO!!!! Looking AWESOME!



that is some of the most rhyzomorphic mycelium growing off of grain I have ever seen. Take care, it is so much so that it may miss some kernels - SHAKE those things. And be doubly sure of your straw because if you do it right I assure you that your mushrooms will RACE through the straw.


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## technical dan (Mar 12, 2013)

Looks great matt. I have not seen nearly the same amount (and I've only seem pics) of mycelium but that is also the most rhyzomorphic I have seen there are nice long strands everywhere. 

I inoculated 4 pints today; I have not seen any growth my other jars.


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## canndo (Mar 12, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> heres some pics
> 
> View attachment 2564328View attachment 2564343View attachment 2564344View attachment 2564345View attachment 2564350View attachment 2564351View attachment 2564352View attachment 2564355View attachment 2564357View attachment 2564359View attachment 2564360View attachment 2564367View attachment 2564368View attachment 2564329View attachment 2564331View attachment 2564332View attachment 2564334



What is that last picture? is that casing? I think I see popcorn but if it is casing, it is past time for you to initiate your pinning.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 12, 2013)

canndo said:


> *that is some of the most rhyzomorphic mycelium growing off of grain I have ever seen*. Take care, it is so much so that it may miss some kernels - SHAKE those things. And be doubly sure of your straw because if you do it right I assure you that your mushrooms will RACE through the straw.


i guess thats a compliment coming from someone in the myco hobby for 40+ years...maybe not to me but to my mycelium lol 



technical dan said:


> Looks great matt. I have not seen nearly the same amount (and I've only seem pics) of mycelium but that is also the most rhyzomorphic I have seen there are nice long strands everywhere.
> 
> I inoculated 4 pints today; I have not seen any growth my other jars.


thanks m8



canndo said:


> What is that last picture? is that casing? I think I see popcorn but if it is casing, it is past time for you to initiate your pinning.


yes that is a vermiculite casing i am experiment with, want to see the difference between straw and verm...I know straw is going to produce better fruits due to the fact that it is semi nutritious...but i figured i would experiment a small amount..

i only cased that pan on saturday and it dosent seem like the mycelium is growing into the verm that much...the white specs are popcorn that are visible from the top. still think i should fruit? i have been wanting too so bad but dont want to be too hasty and screw myself. i was planing on giving it till saturday (1 week colonizing after casing)

thanks for all the kind words guys...im pretty happy with my results thus far for this being my first run at this. good vibes to everyone else and i hope you all get great results as well


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 12, 2013)

I also ran into a issue with the mycelium getting stuck to the trash bag...didnt want to damage it so i put the lid on the pan and covered the lid with another aluminum pan, it wouldnt fit in my incubator with the lid and pan on it so i just left it on to...the apt stays mid 70's anyways so i figure it should be fine...it wont get the fluxuation to 85 like the incubator does but should still be decent temps for growth.

will the trash bag hurt the mycelium? pulling it off the grain?


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## canndo (Mar 12, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> i guess thats a compliment coming from someone in the myco hobby for 40+ years...maybe not to me but to my mycelium lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Firstly, if the fruit you get from that organism is any good at all, then I highly urge you to take every measure to preserve the tissue. I think I have mentioned a strain found in some bag seed some time in the distant past (of course there are dozens of such stories in pot lore). The strain was actually trade marked as Tartukan Death Weed - it really exists, it is really all it is cracked up to be and someone had the smarts to preserve the tissue - so it still exists in it's original form. 

there are plenty of "found treasure" TV shows now, it could be that you have discovered a found treasure of your own with this mycelium - for, again, I've never seen such rhyzomorphic structures on corn. You would do well to learn the art of agar so that you can preserve your strain. Keeping the spores is no guarantee and mushrooms are very dynamic organisms - they will shift their genetic makeup very rapidly and they will quickly weaken, contrary to plants. Consider that what you are growing when you have a monoculture is essentialy one very long strand of hyphae. the longer that hyphae grows no matter what you grow it on, the weaker it will become until finally it will tire and perish.

IF you let this strain go, thinking you will find another, you may lament your decision. I would do everything possible to keep that from happening.

I had an Amazonian strain many many years ago that showed the same sort of characteristics and I managed to keep it alive for over 10 years, unknowing that I could have kept it indefinitely.



About that picture - I am still unsure of your method.


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## canndo (Mar 12, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> I also ran into a issue with the mycelium getting stuck to the trash bag...didnt want to damage it so i put the lid on the pan and covered the lid with another aluminum pan, it wouldnt fit in my incubator with the lid and pan on it so i just left it on to...the apt stays mid 70's anyways so i figure it should be fine...it wont get the fluxuation to 85 like the incubator does but should still be decent temps for growth.
> 
> will the trash bag hurt the mycelium? pulling it off the grain?


Don't worry about the mycelium that clings to your plastic, your myclium is very healthy and will easily withstand any damage you cause. As I said in my tek, so long as the kernel is touched by your mycelium it will regrow very rapidly. This will not be the case however, after your mycelium has fruited or if it bruises blue, although it will still repair itself it will take longer and be suseptable to contamination.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 12, 2013)

canndo said:


> Firstly, if the fruit you get from that organism is any good at all, then I highly urge you to take every measure to preserve the tissue. I think I have mentioned a strain found in some bag seed some time in the distant past (of course there are dozens of such stories in pot lore). The strain was actually trade marked as Tartukan Death Weed - it really exists, it is really all it is cracked up to be and someone had the smarts to preserve the tissue - so it still exists in it's original form.
> 
> there are plenty of "found treasure" TV shows now, it could be that you have discovered a found treasure of your own with this mycelium - for, again, I've never seen such rhyzomorphic structures on corn. You would do well to learn the art of agar so that you can preserve your strain. Keeping the spores is no guarantee and mushrooms are very dynamic organisms - they will shift their genetic makeup very rapidly and they will quickly weaken, contrary to plants. Consider that what you are growing when you have a monoculture is essentialy one very long strand of hyphae. the longer that hyphae grows no matter what you grow it on, the weaker it will become until finally it will tire and perish.
> 
> ...


if your speaking of the vermiculite and corn pic...im am unsure of my method as well. i was under the impression that the mycelium would spread through the vermiculite??? and create a more even web of mycelium? or will it not gorw into the verm since verm has no nutritional value....?

if thats the case i will fruit tomorow and see what happens....should get something out of the deal right?? lol

live and learn...im trying to understand this stuff the best i can but i fear my understanding may be incorrect. 

anyhoo, i still have 8 jars that are colonizing at rapid rates so i havent blown the entire operation as of yet...my biggest fear is contam on the straw. I checked my straw casing today and some of the mycelium has in fact reached its little fingers onto a few pieces of straw and seems to be doing what its supposed to. i think the straw is going to take a full week before its ready to fruit but when its ready i think ill be pleased with the results...and as you can see from the pic i definatly have enough straw to last a couple grows lol.


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## canndo (Mar 12, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> if your speaking of the vermiculite and corn pic...im am unsure of my method as well. i was under the impression that the mycelium would spread through the vermiculite??? and create a more even web of mycelium? or will it not gorw into the verm since verm has no nutritional value....?
> 
> if thats the case i will fruit tomorow and see what happens....should get something out of the deal right?? lol
> 
> ...



Growing through pure vermiculite is only providing the hyphae with moisture and a "direction" - it is seeking more nutrient and will grow many inches in order to find more.

What I fear here is that you didn't really case, that is if I can see corn. If that is the case, then what you have done is simply spawned into inert material. This will mean that the mushrooms you get from it will be taking all of their nutrient from the individual kernels of corn - this is not casing in the conventional case.

It looks to me as though you may as well attempt a pinning now but I don't know what the result will be.

Ordinarily what you should have done is propagate your mycelium by using the "seeds" of innoculated corn which have been placed or spaced in a nutritional substrate, the mycelium will grow from the corn into a mass that will finally conglomerate making one giant mass of mycelium, one single organism that feeds, grows, reenforces itself, repairs itself and finally, when it is threatened with extinction through no new prospects of more nutrient, a dip in the temperature or some other signal, it will bear fruit or attempt to replicate.

This is no different than pot. You grow your plant to a certain size and when YOU are ready, you signal the plant that it will soon die and it had better get busy reproducing by way of flower and hopefully, begin to bear fruit (seeds). Of course the larger and more powerful the plant the more seeds it will produce - of course you will inhibit the production of seeds in this case.

If you can understand how the mushroom works then you can manage it. A spore finds fertile surface - one that has nutrient and moisture and it quickly germinates. In this case, that is not enough, it needs a genetic exchange and is assured that it's effort will not be wasted when it encounters a second, sexualy complementary hyphae from another spore. In this case it creates a clamp connection and exchanges genetic information. It also gains renewed vigor and begins to exploit it's environment. Most times that environment is underground, in the dark. Most times there is little air exchange, when the now sexualy mature mycelial mass has encountered the limits of it's nutrient foundation it will begin to fill out it's niche, sending out more, shorter hyphae - just as a root structure does. Eventually it will run out of even those pockets. Now one of the reasons you see rhyzomorphic structures is that these can travel long distances with a minimal amount of energy looking for even more nutrient. At the extremities of it's search it encounters light and is triggered to fruit with the intent of erecting tiny towers and umbrellas which will contain more spores. These spores are actually blown out of the structure that hold them with huge force - the acceleration is hundreds of gravities. Those spores light on the wind and extend the range of the mushroom far beyond anything that it could do traveling along, within or on top of the ground in the form of mycelium. The cycle continues when two complementary spores light on yet another receptive growing surface.


So, casing - that is, a reduction in nutrient - light, that is a signal that the mushroom will not grow into the ground or benieth the soil and so be unable to expose those towers to the breeze, temperature, that is it will soon be vulnerable to freezing, and a reduction in CO2, another indicator that it is near the surface are your pinning triggers.


So long as you work with the life cycle of the mushroom in mind just as you have with pot - you will find success. This again, is why PF tek is so wrong. It depends on the mushroom finally depleating it's resources alone, and the mushroom, having used most of those resources simply to continue to exist has only a small reserve with which to use to create fruiting bodies.

You can actually see the results of what the mushroom will do if you put your grain packed into a container. After your first flush you will see your grain "plug", the mass in the container shrink, sometimes as much as an inch on all sides. this is a result of your mycelial mass having consumed the grain and rendered the entire mass with considerably less volume.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 12, 2013)

so what if i sprinkle some brown rice flour on top to give em something to eat? then a slight mist? of course i will sterilize the BRF before i add it. this will give the mycelium something to decomp while fruiting....i know BRF is contam prone so prob not the best idea...just want a decent first flush.


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## canndo (Mar 12, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> so what if i sprinkle some brown rice flour on top to give em something to eat? then a slight mist? of course i will sterilize the BRF before i add it. this will give the mycelium something to decomp while fruiting....i know BRF is contam prone so prob not the best idea...just want a decent first flush.



That would be a very bad idea.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 12, 2013)

canndo said:


> That would be a very bad idea.


i knew you were gonna say that lol


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 12, 2013)

may i ask, what the hell is so bad about BRF? is it just natuarally contaminated?


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## Mookjong (Mar 12, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> may i ask, what the hell is so bad about BRF? is it just natuarally contaminated?


I can tell you one bad thing about that idea. Getting flour wet will make it muddy, I forget the term but it would make a seal or matt down the casing.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 12, 2013)

Mookjong said:


> I can tell you one bad thing about that idea. Getting flour wet will make it muddy, I forget the term but it would make a seal or matt down the casing.


makes sense, i wouldnt use alot maybe 2 tablespoons


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 12, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> so what if i *sprinkle *some brown rice flour on top to give em something to eat? then a slight mist? of course i will sterilize the BRF before i add it. this will give the mycelium something to decomp while fruiting....i know BRF is contam prone so prob not the best idea...just want a decent first flush.


just a sprinkle....lol


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## polyarcturus (Mar 12, 2013)

lol, there are a lot of reasons you would not want to add BRF especially to the caseing. you could mix it in your sub at the time of mixing which wouldn't be a terrible idea.

but the main issues with what you have in mind are 

A) adding food to your csing will cause the mycelium to grow into it, you dont wnat this, that would defeat the purpose of casing.
B) its a processed matierial, so it is almost sterile, and more prone to be contaminated. 

just scrap that idea, you want a casing that wont supply much more than some moisture, some straw and verm or ewc and verm. is good and doesnt provide much in the way of food.


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## canndo (Mar 12, 2013)

Your meter is running, if you put something sterile on top of a growing substrate you are essential starting over and giving contamination an even break again - most times the contams win, mycelium does not. The higher the density of nutrients the more chance you will have contamination, furthermore, your rice flour is non-selective, it will grow anything, straw is selective for mycelium and good organisms. You don't want to be "adjusting" things. That is a problem with pot growers who jump into this hobby, they think they can adjust nutrients the same way they can add a little nitrogen, you are not growing a plant. Everything is dependent upon your initial food, what you started with is what you get. If you want to adjust your humidity, fine but beyond that even adjusting your moisture content is perilous.


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## Mookjong (Mar 12, 2013)

canndo said:


> Your meter is running, if you put something sterile on top of a growing substrate you are essential starting over and giving contamination an even break again - most times the contams win, mycelium does not. The higher the density of nutrients the more chance you will have contamination, furthermore, your rice flour is non-selective, it will grow anything, straw is selective for mycelium and good organisms. You don't want to be "adjusting" things. That is a problem with pot growers who jump into this hobby, they think they can adjust nutrients the same way they can add a little nitrogen, you are not growing a plant. Everything is dependent upon your initial food, what you started with is what you get. If you want to adjust your humidity, fine but beyond that even adjusting your moisture content is perilous.


Can I ask your thoughts on ensuring maximum potency with even distribution of psilocybin throughout each of the fruit bodies? Another RIU poster is swearing by horse dung, however the only thing I have found from published mycologists is that temperature is the most important variable for potency. Where certain temps will allow the fruit body to out grow the psilocybin. Thus making a bigger, weaker mushroom.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 12, 2013)

Just a picture of my three lonely jars haha


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 12, 2013)

canndo said:


> Your meter is running, if you put something sterile on top of a growing substrate you are essential starting over and giving contamination an even break again - most times the contams win, mycelium does not. The higher the density of nutrients the more chance you will have contamination, furthermore, your *rice flour is non-selective, it will grow anything, straw is selective for mycelium *and good organisms. You don't want to be "adjusting" things. That is a problem with pot growers who jump into this hobby, they think they can adjust nutrients the same way they can add a little nitrogen, you are not growing a plant. Everything is dependent upon your initial food, what you started with is what you get. If you want to adjust your humidity, fine but beyond that even adjusting your moisture content is perilous.


ok i c now..


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 12, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Just a picture of my three lonely jars haha View attachment 2565798


dude watch that middle jar take off in a day or so, its messed up because as it grows it just goes faster and faster.the growth is expotential...


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 12, 2013)

Out of two dozen jars all I got is 3 jars with some with stuff in it  but all is good. Out of my 3rd batch the 5 jars I knocked up I got 3 left, two got contam. same thing substrate looking kinda "wet" and that smell haha so I'm left with 3 jars with growth in it and 3 jars with ? mark, they got inoculated on the 11th.

So I think it had to be contam. syringe because out of those last 5 jars only 2 got contam.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 12, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Out of two dozen jars all I got is 3 jars with some with stuff in it  but all is good. Out of my 3rd batch the 5 jars I knocked up I got 3 left, two got contam. same thing substrate looking kinda "wet" and that smell haha so I'm left with 3 jars with growth in it and 3 jars with ? mark, they got inoculated on the 11th.
> 
> So I think it had to be contam. syringe because out of those last 5 jars only 2 got contam.


dont feel too bad im in the same boat. keep filling my jars to full and they get contaminated when i shake them by wicking moisture in from my patches on the top of the jar. :/ so im down to 3 jars x2 filled with grain and x1 agar so ill probably be alright... but on the other hand i got like 4 fully colonized jars with contams i dont know what to do with.. trying to wait just a few more days to toss them outside somewhere and hope they grow


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 12, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> dont feel too bad im in the same boat. keep filling my jars to full and they get contaminated when i shake them by wicking moisture in from my patches on the top of the jar. :/ so im down to 3 jars x2 filled with grain and x1 agar so ill probably be alright... but on the other hand i got like 4 fully colonized jars with contams i dont know what to do with.. trying to wait just a few more days to toss them outside somewhere and hope they grow


Poly, actually I don't feel bad  it's my first time doing this so I was nicely surprised that I got 3 jars with no contam. it would be nice having those two dozen jars without any contam. but I'm happy with what I got. I still got one syringe left, so if all goes well with those jars that I got right now, I'll reuse them after birthing the cakes.


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## Mookjong (Mar 13, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Poly, actually I don't feel bad  it's my first time doing this so I was nicely surprised that I got 3 jars with no contam. it would be nice having those two dozen jars without any contam. but I'm happy with what I got. I still got one syringe left, so if all goes well with those jars that I got right now, I'll reuse them after birthing the cakes.


What are you going to do differently next time? That's some pretty bad luck. I'm curious what some of the mistake might have been. I'm not trying to point fingers at all. I just want to know so I don't make the same mistakes. Basically, I'm curious if the popcorn has something do with it. I've done whole rye grain pretty haphazardly with much better results. I usually get 1 or 2 bad jars out 14. I never liked that 68*F temp you kept them at either. Again, there's no negative tone here, just wanna know what might have happened. I mean that's why we're all here, to learn from each other mistakes.



Something that has helped me a lot is this, and it applies to both the substrate and casing layer. *The amount of water you want is that of a sponge that has been wrung out to point of no drips or heavy water pockets. You don't want to be holding water, you want to be holding moisture. Hopefully that makes sense. 
*


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 13, 2013)

heres some pics,,,,cased 3 mor epans today with straw, have 3 jars left. doing my grain to grain tomorow and casing the last 2 jars in a tote. 



boiled my corn today and going to let it dry over night, used the straw steep as suggested to boil the corn in so will see how it goes. i think i can see small pinning going on but no pin heads yet, just so upwards growth of mycelium if what it looks like. hopefully by tomorow i have some noticable pins.

will be doing 8 more jars tomorow.


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## canndo (Mar 13, 2013)

Mookjong said:


> Can I ask your thoughts on ensuring maximum potency with even distribution of psilocybin throughout each of the fruit bodies? Another RIU poster is swearing by horse dung, however the only thing I have found from published mycologists is that temperature is the most important variable for potency. Where certain temps will allow the fruit body to out grow the psilocybin. Thus making a bigger, weaker mushroom.




Don't worry about potency, you want potent? pick early.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 13, 2013)

Mookjong said:


> What are you going to do differently next time? That's some pretty bad luck. I'm curious what some of the mistake might have been. I'm not trying to point fingers at all. I just want to know so I don't make the same mistakes. Basically, I'm curious if the popcorn has something do with it. I've done whole rye grain pretty haphazardly with much better results. I usually get 1 or 2 bad jars out 14. I never liked that 68*F temp you kept them at either. Again, there's no negative tone here, just wanna know what might have happened. I mean that's why we're all here, to learn from each other mistakes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mook I don't know when the next time going be haha I still got one syringe left so maybe in few weeks I'll give another shot. If not it will be in the mail to a good friend of mine haha.

Only first batch was kept at 68F second and third was kept at 75-77F. 

It had to be the syringe, only jars that got knocked up with that syringe got contam. But fuck it I ain't worrying about it. 3 jars is plenty for me buddy, should be enough for me and my wife, I don't even know if my wife will have some haha she's not a big fan of hallucinogens.


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## Mookjong (Mar 13, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Mook I don't know when the next time going be haha I still got one syringe left so maybe in few weeks I'll give another shot. If not it will be in the mail to a good friend of mine haha.
> 
> Only first batch was kept at 68F second and third was kept at 75-77F.
> 
> It had to be the syringe, only jars that got knocked up with that syringe got contam. But fuck it I ain't worrying about it. 3 jars is plenty for me buddy, should be enough for me and my wife, I don't even know if my wife will have some haha she's not a big fan of hallucinogens.


Oh right on bro, I wasn't sure of your intentions. That has to be frustrating to get a bad syringe. Did you get it from sporeworks? What size are those jars in your pic on the previous page?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 13, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Mook I don't know when the next time going be haha I still got one syringe left so maybe in few weeks I'll give another shot. If not it will be in the mail to a good friend of mine haha.
> 
> Only first batch was kept at 68F second and third was kept at 75-77F.
> 
> It had to be the syringe, only jars that got knocked up with that syringe got contam. But fuck it I ain't worrying about it. 3 jars is plenty for me buddy, should be enough for me and my wife, I don't even know if my wife will have some haha she's not a big fan of hallucinogens.


try popcorn next time man......from all my readings the PF tek really is as Cando says....junk. its great for newbies to the hobby because its simple but from what i have read the contam rates are really really high compared to using popcorn...cant hurt man and a bag of popcorn is like 2 bucks. 

but if you decide to give them to your good friend im sure if he was sucessfull he would send you some of the final product...


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 13, 2013)

Mookjong said:


> Oh right on bro, I wasn't sure of your intentions. That has to be frustrating to get a bad syringe. Did you get it from sporeworks? What size are those jars in your pic on the previous page?


Mook jars are 1/2 paint jelly jars. One order was from sporeworks and one was from spores101. But it's all good


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 13, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> try popcorn next time man......from all my readings the PF tek really is as Cando says....junk. its great for newbies to the hobby because its simple but from what i have read the contam rates are really really high compared to using popcorn...cant hurt man and a bag of popcorn is like 2 bucks.
> 
> but if you decide to give them to your good friend im sure if he was sucessfull he would send you some of the final product...


Matt, I'm cool now. I'm fine with what I got buddy  I got my harvest right around the corner so I'm good  

For now I'll see probably how it goes with these jars, I don't know if I'll use that last syringe still thinking about it...if not it's going to be in the mail  oh and I'm sure if my good friend have a successful harvest he would send me some of that fine final product.


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## Mookjong (Mar 13, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Mook jars are 1/2 paint jelly jars. One order was from sporeworks and one was from spores101. But it's all good


I should have known that lol, for some reason I thought you and Matt where doing the same tek. Obviously there's not grain in those jars. Derp

Do you remember who sold you the bad one? I think many of us would find that information valuable.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 13, 2013)

Mookjong said:


> I should have known that lol, for some reason I thought you and Matt where doing the same tek. Obviously there's not grain in those jars. Derp
> 
> Do you remember who sold you the bad one? I think many of us would find that information valuable.


I'm not sure if it was a bad syringe or me. So like I said I'm not bashing none of these companies, but I know the syringes from spore101 looked like plain water nothing in it and I used spores101 on my first run (all jars got contam), and then I used some syringes from spreworks but these looked packed with spores, and only jars from one syringe got contam. rest are fine. So Like I said I'm not bashing any of these companies it might as well be my fault.


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## Mookjong (Mar 13, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> heres some pics,,,,cased 3 mor epans today with straw, have 3 jars left. doing my grain to grain tomorow and casing the last 2 jars in a tote.
> 
> View attachment 2567129View attachment 2567130View attachment 2567131View attachment 2567132
> 
> ...


That third pic has me worried. Those water droplets on the your lid are pretty big. Every time you open that lid your gonna have big drops hitting your casing and fruit. Both of which is a bad thing. You really don't want anything more than a fine mist. You can see in the pic that some drops have already landed by looking at those trails. You might be smart to put some holes in the sides of the lid. Might wanna wait for canndo to chime in to confirm since he's basically been your mentor. I do believe it's a problem that needs to be addressed pretty soon though.


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## Mookjong (Mar 13, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> I'm not sure if it was a bad syringe or me. So like I said I'm not bashing none of these companies, but I know the syringes from spore101 looked like plain water nothing in it and I used spores101 on my first run (all jars got contam), and then I used some syringes from spreworks but these looked packed with spores, and only jars from one syringe got contam. rest are fine. So Like I said I'm not bashing any of these companies it might as well be my fault.


Fair enough bro, I'll leave it at that.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 13, 2013)

yeah cuz i used spores101 and got great results so cant really point fingers unless you know...i want to find the hookup on penis envy spores...haha


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 13, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> yeah cuz i used spores101 and got great results so cant really point fingers unless you know...i want to find the hookup on penis envy spores...haha


I got one syringe with chitwan strain. That's the one from sporeworks.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 13, 2013)

I checked my jars just a moment a go, and I think I got some white stuff going in one of my three jars that got knocked up on the 10th.
So if I get 5 fully col. jars I would be more then happy


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## Mookjong (Mar 13, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> yeah cuz i used spores101 and got great results so cant really point fingers unless you know...i want to find the hookup on penis envy spores...haha


thehawkseye.com has them, I've grown them too. I didn't care for them. They are cool looking but that's about it, I did't find them to be anymore potent as some have claimed. And you don't get decent sized caps. You get a lot more stem and way less cap. The stems get fat as hell tho.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 13, 2013)

i have heard they are really really potent.


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## MJG420 (Mar 13, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> heres some pics,,,,cased 3 mor epans today with straw, have 3 jars left. doing my grain to grain tomorow and casing the last 2 jars in a tote.
> 
> View attachment 2567129View attachment 2567130View attachment 2567131View attachment 2567132
> 
> ...



Wow Matt looks like you are just plugging along here! I'm hot on your tail though, updating my jorunal in a few stop on by. 





aCiDjEsUs said:


> I checked my jars just a moment a go, and I think I got some white stuff going in one of my three jars that got knocked up on the 10th.
> So if I get 5 fully col. jars I would be more then happy




Hell yeah bro congrats!


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## Mookjong (Mar 13, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> i have heard they are really really potent.


I've heard the same, maybe I broke mine. LOL. I just don't remember them being anything different other than being really chewy. 

Here, eat a bowl of Dicks!!


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## polyarcturus (Mar 13, 2013)

pick the aborts they are always the strongest. i keep a little small bag for collecting aborts. eat 2g of them and whooh.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 13, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> heres some pics,,,,cased 3 mor epans today with straw, have 3 jars left. doing my grain to grain tomorow and casing the last 2 jars in a tote.
> 
> View attachment 2567129View attachment 2567130View attachment 2567131View attachment 2567132
> 
> ...



see you already picked up on what G2G is and plan on doing it. wasnt popcorn the better choice?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 13, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> pick the aborts they are always the strongest. i keep a little small bag for collecting aborts. eat 2g of them and whooh.


wkat is a abort?


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## Mookjong (Mar 13, 2013)

The little bitty mushrooms that don't break their veil.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 13, 2013)

Mookjong said:


> The little bitty mushrooms that don't break their veil.


i kinda think that confusing wording, becuse an abort Never breaks its veil.

its a mushroom that aborts the fruiting process and never breaks veil or generates spores. tend to turn a pale white and stop growing shortly after they abort.(abortions are often caused by other fruiting bodies sucking their moisture away, and they tend to be re-consumed by the mycelium fairly quickly, so you only get a day or 2 to gather them in the case of small ones.)


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## Mookjong (Mar 13, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> *i jinda think that confusing wording, becuse and abort Never breaks its veil.
> *
> its a mushroom that aborts the fruiting process and never breaks veil or generates spores. tend to turn a pale white and stop growing shortly after they abort.(abortions are often caused by other fruiting bodies sucking their moisture away, and they tend to be re-consumed by the mycelium fairly quickly, so you only get a day or 2 to gather them in the case of small ones.)


Oh really! That's classic! Almost sig worthy!


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## polyarcturus (Mar 13, 2013)

thats funny as hell lol


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## Thundercat (Mar 13, 2013)

After my first tray harvest I pulled about 7 grams of little bitty aborts off, god did I trip balls off those! That was one of my 2 break through tripping nights I've had. Seriously felt like I was floating above myself watching what was goinging on. Puked shortly after about 5 hours in, learned alot that night..............................


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 14, 2013)

ill bring the can today and possibly the camcorder and get some pics of my process. im going to cut out the glove box and do a open air g2g using a piece of plastic and a couple other things to build a small crawl in box.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 14, 2013)

So I got other nice growth in my two new jars from the last run, so that puts me up with 5 jars haha 

Last run I used 5 jars they were steamed at the same time, same substrate etc. exactly everything was the same beside the spores. My conclusion is that it had to be the syringe, out of 5 jars 2 went bad, the 2 that got knocked up with the syringe that got my other jars contam. from the last batch, every other jar that got knocked up with a different syringe is fine, and still got 2 jars that are not showing anything, no visible contam. nor the smell. or any mycelium growth.


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## Thundercat (Mar 14, 2013)

Sounds good you got some more going man, and seems like a reasonable conclusion about the syringe.


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## canndo (Mar 14, 2013)

If it is a syringe either you will get nothing in any jars or you will get contamination in every jar you innoculate with that syringe. You would be surprised at how many syringes are contaminated.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 14, 2013)

canndo said:


> If it is a syringe either you will get nothing in any jars or you will get contamination in every jar you innoculate with that syringe. You would be surprised at how many syringes are contaminated.


That's what exactly what I was saying, I got contam. in every jar that got knocked up with that syringe. All jars that got knocked up with a different syringe are fine.
I did two runs with 2 syringes. Syringe A knocked 5 jars all 5 are fine. syringe B knocked 5 jars and all 5 jars got contam. 

I was just saying that on my last run I steamed 5 jars. 3 jars got knocked up with syringe A and 2 got knocked up with syringe B. Jars with spores from syringe A are fine and I have growth after 4 days. The 2 jars that got knocked up with syringe B are bad like the last run I did with syringe B. So it had to be the syringe, because all the jars that got spores from syringe A are fine, all jars from syringe B went to garbage.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 14, 2013)

whew...well cased my last 2 jars today, did my G2G in open air...has been a busy day, PCing takes alot of time!!

should be fruiting my first straw casing i did 3 days ago by sunday...the mycelium is growing verry rapidly through the straw!!

heres some pics!!




i just lysoled the shit out of the shower and worked in there with a rain poncho and some gloves on...wanted to do a more sterile job but going to see how this goes. worst case scenario..i have to use the remainder of my other syringe and start fresh. got 11 1/2 jars of popcorn now in the incubator...if all goes well i shouldnt get any jars with no life...maybe contams but definatly no nothing jars this time..

next time im going to make a mycelium solution to use to knock up the jars with a syringe so i dont have to open the tops of the jars.


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## canndo (Mar 14, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> That's what exactly what I was saying, I got contam. in every jar that got knocked up with that syringe. All jars that got knocked up with a different syringe are fine.
> I did two runs with 2 syringes. Syringe A knocked 5 jars all 5 are fine. syringe B knocked 5 jars and all 5 jars got contam.
> 
> I was just saying that on my last run I steamed 5 jars. 3 jars got knocked up with syringe A and 2 got knocked up with syringe B. Jars with spores from syringe A are fine and I have growth after 4 days. The 2 jars that got knocked up with syringe B are bad like the last run I did with syringe B. So it had to be the syringe, because all the jars that got spores from syringe A are fine, all jars from syringe B went to garbage.




As I have said previously somewhere - any spore supplier in the U.S. has a problem, he is not breaking any laws by having or producing spore syringes but someone actually has to grow the fruit in order to obtain the spores and THAT is fully illegal in every state. I don't know where they get their spores, there may well be some sort of a central bank offshore and the different vendors may be getting their spores from the same source.

I do know that I have encountered a number of syringes contaminated with Trich, but most contaminated with some sort of bacteria. This holds true also for the legal mushrooms - then again they could be growing those on the premsisis.

A part of mycology is simple detective work or standard troubleshooting, isolating one step from the next, making only one change at a time - that sort of thing. I long ago took to going directly to agar and that makes things much easier and also doesnt' waste my time with actually inoculating a dozen bags or two dozen jars that I spent two days creating only to have the problem be my syringe. agar will tell you within three days if your syringe is contaminated.


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## Thundercat (Mar 14, 2013)

Looks great man, this is the first time I've seen the spawning strait to straw like that looks like its going well.


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## canndo (Mar 14, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> whew...well cased my last 2 jars today, did my G2G in open air...has been a busy day, PCing takes alot of time!!
> 
> should be fruiting my first straw casing i did 3 days ago by sunday...the mycelium is growing verry rapidly through the straw!!
> 
> ...



your straw isn't done yet - let it go and be sure that you have something on top of the straw, like a black bag with a few holes in it or your straw will get dry spots. Those dry spots should never be cased over nor should any straw that is not fully engulfed in mycelium. That is where people get into problems when they work with cased straw, they either ignore those spots that are now contaminated or they have areas that are not quite ready yet. Both have already gotten bad spores on them, the moment you put your casing on top, the bad spores will begin to germinate and you will have hidden places where contamination has gained a foothold and you can't see it. You may see that border between your substrate and your casing invaded with green. What happens is that you see a tiny patch of green on the top of your casing and figure you can control it by spooning it out and treating the area with salt - but when you scoop, you find that you have hit a "vein" of green and you are done.


Also, next time, shred that straw man! your mycelium will have much less trouble jumping from one filiment of straw to the next when they are packed tight and the smaller your shred the tighter you can pack your straw - also, whole sticks of straw still have that waxy covering and that covering will inhibit proper moisture content.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 14, 2013)

I did cut up the straw in pic one and the rest, just got lazy with that last pne...my thumb hurts so bad from cutting straw with crappy scissors i couldnt do anymore lol....

i thought that once the mycelium has completely clonized the straw i could just set it out to fruit as is???

so i still need to cover the mycelium with something? wil vermiculite work if i do?


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## Mookjong (Mar 14, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> I did cut up the straw in pic one and the rest, just got lazy with that last pne...*my thumb hurts so bad from cutting straw with crappy scissors i couldnt do anymore lol....*
> 
> i thought that once the mycelium has completely clonized the straw i could just set it out to fruit as is???
> 
> so i still need to cover the mycelium with something? wil vermiculite work if i do?


LOL!! That's funny as fuck


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 14, 2013)

yeah i definatly need to invest in some decent scissors or something, dont mind cutting it up but all i had was a small pair of family dollar scissors lol.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 14, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> yeah i definatly need to invest in some decent scissors or something, dont mind cutting it up but all i had was a small pair of family dollar scissors lol.


the scissors dont make a difference sharp cheap or good. they suck for when its big clumps. use something like hedge shears in a bucket, something you can grab with 2 hands and go at it with. thats what im about to invest in some good hedge shears. 

http://www.walmart.com/ip/16794898?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227000000000&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=21486607510&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 14, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> the scissors dont make a difference sharp cheap or good. they suck for when its big clumps. use something like hedge shears in a bucket, something you can grab with 2 hands and go at it with. thats what im about to invest in some good hedge shears.
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/16794898?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227000000000&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=21486607510&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem


Poly dude that's some serious equipment!! He only need to cut up some dry straw haha or is that straw that hard?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 14, 2013)

its not bad at first...after about 1/2 a wafer of straw though.....

i ought to just get one of these 

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Weed-Eater-19-Hedge-Trimmer/17155394


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 14, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> its not bad at first...after about 1/2 a wafer of straw though.....
> 
> i ought to just get one of these
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Weed-Eater-19-Hedge-Trimmer/17155394


BUUUHAHAHA There ya go Even Better!!! Hahaha


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## Thundercat (Mar 14, 2013)

A food processor would prolly be a good way to do it I would think, I don't know that might be to small.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 14, 2013)

really i was just posting what i had in min hedge shreats shouldnt cost more than 15$ http://www.hardwareandtools.com/Mintcraft-GH6111-Mintcraft-Garden-21In-Hedge-Shears-8313165.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=Google Shopping&gclid=CMrt1ejW_bUCFc9AMgode2QAWQ

probably free if i wantes. buy you want them sharp so new would be best.


this is what most peeps use is something like this,
http://www.leafblowersdirect.com/Earthwise-BVM21012-Leaf-Blower/p7509.html?utm_source=google shopping&utm_medium=shop portals&utm_campaign=BVM21012&gclid=CMu1rsDW_bUCFaUWMgodSFQAoA


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## Javadog (Mar 14, 2013)

"*i thought that once the mycelium has completely clonized the straw i could just set it out to fruit as is???*"

Yes, a fully colonized substrate is fully contam resistant. Otherwise all FCs would
have to be sterile and have HEPA filtered FAE.

I am very late to this very active thread.

I only skimmed over the whole of it....I saw a few somewhat less
common approaches, but nothing to take exception with.

I am only here to help, and you seem to be rocking here.

:0)

While my own half pint jars (my PF-Tek jars) are sitting idle, and
have been for a while, I still like to recommend the PF-Tek, together
with a SGFC, for new cultivators to try, as these approaches are
the most forgiving. A verm-rolled BRF cake can be drenched without
stalling a flush, a SGFC make misting and fanning less critical, etc.

I look forward to bouncing these things around with you all.

Take care,

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 15, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> A food processor would prolly be a good way to do it I would think, I don't know that might be to small.


i tried the food processor, works but the straw has to be wet and it still dosent work great....15 min og holding down the bitton to get 1 cup of processed straw is a bit overkill imho...i like that leaf blower/leaf shredder polly linked but not sure if it would efficiently do the trick since its made for leaves and straw is a little more rugged that leaves...maybe skip the electric style on go for the gas....prob a weedwacker and a 55 gal drum would work well too. 



Javadog said:


> "*i thought that once the mycelium has completely clonized the straw i could just set it out to fruit as is???*"
> 
> Yes, a fully colonized substrate is fully contam resistant. Otherwise all FCs would
> have to be sterile and have HEPA filtered FAE.
> ...



welcome aboard. yeah some of the teks here arent of the norm i guess....most of the reason is my own misunderstanding of things.....seems like as soon as i (think) I have a grasp on things i get told that im doing it wrong...

i am still pretty curious as to what im supposed to be doing with this straw/corn sub once its fully colonized....am i supposed to be casing it with something? or do i fruit it as is?

once its fully colonized, pasturized vermiculite to field capacity 1/2" layer on top? sorry im just confused right now.....


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 15, 2013)

ok so i think i get it.....what i did with the straw wasnt casing....it is called "Bulk Spawn" basically "stretching" out my popcorn sub....making a little become "alot" and i still need to "case" them???

will be doing some more researching but would appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction as i plan on fruiting one of my straw "bulk tubs" on sunday and i really need to go into it knowing what im doing (usually helps) of couse i went into this whole project blind as can be anyways lol.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 15, 2013)

http://www.lycaeum.org/mv/mu/_bulk_best.html

heres a link i found...this guy is using peletized wheat straw???

so if i understand correctly i should pick up some peat moss and powdered lime? (already have vermiculite) 

mix a 70/30 of peat/verm and then sprinkle some lime? then bring up to FMC and pasturize? then i have a legit casing to put on top of my straw/popcorn "bulk sub"...then let sit until i see rhizomorphic "hyphae"?? (or is hyphea considered rhizomorphic and both really the same thing?)

like.....if you see hyphea...your mycelium is rhizomorphic...kinda thing? still trying to understand alot of these terms and what they mean so bear with me...sorry for the repeated questions if they are repeated.

anyways....does this seem about right?? i was under the impression that i was casing my substrate with the straw and when it was done colonizing i was ready to fruit..


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## polyarcturus (Mar 15, 2013)

electric blower works, some people do use a weedwacker. but the electric blower does work well.

strawcorn sub goes into a tub or has to top of the bag cut off to expose it to fruiting conditions. then when you see pins, you put your casing layer on. pasteurized potting soil works fine, straight verm, more straw or straw and verm mixed, EWC ect.

rhizomorphic is more like a condition condition of mycelium growth, hyphae are invisible to the eye adn are what inter connect the individual fiungi cells, both to each other and the substrate.

when you substrate is colonized, you expose it to fruiting conditions, once it begins to pin, you case.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 15, 2013)

avoid lime in mycology mushrooms dont like a lot of MG. most people use oyster shell or gypsum to buffer their medias pH but i recommend staying away from anything you will have to pH.


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## canndo (Mar 15, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> I did cut up the straw in pic one and the rest, just got lazy with that last pne...my thumb hurts so bad from cutting straw with crappy scissors i couldnt do anymore lol....
> 
> i thought that once the mycelium has completely clonized the straw i could just set it out to fruit as is???
> 
> so i still need to cover the mycelium with something? wil vermiculite work if i do?


You got to CASE it next.


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## canndo (Mar 15, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> the scissors dont make a difference sharp cheap or good. they suck for when its big clumps. use something like hedge shears in a bucket, something you can grab with 2 hands and go at it with. thats what im about to invest in some good hedge shears.
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/16794898?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227000000000&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=21486607510&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem



Look for a mulching leaf blower


http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=leaf vacuum mulcher&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:leaf vacuum mulcher


Or, if you are serious, use one of these

http://www.chippersdirect.com/Stanley-CH2-Chipper-Shredder/p8830.html?utm_source=pg&utm_medium=paid portals


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## canndo (Mar 15, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> avoid lime in mycology mushrooms dont like a lot of MG. most people use oyster shell or gypsum to buffer their medias pH but i recommend staying away from anything you will have to pH.




most of the lime products have magnesium in them, mushrooms don't like much magnesium.


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## Javadog (Mar 15, 2013)

There is a lot to impart here, and we will do this over time, but let's start with
casing soil and layers.

First, cubes do not need a casing layer to fruit.

This being said, I still like to use them because the are good moisture banks
and they protect the sub from drying out in my dry area.

The classic casing soil is "50/50+". This is 50% verm plus 50% peat moss with
hydrated lime (the stuff that burns) and gypsum added. The lime is a fast acting
pH lifter and the gypsum plays the role of buffer, helping maintain the higher pH.

The fact is that the fungi do not really love the high pH all that much,
but contaminants like it even less and they do not have the foothold of
strong spawn to start from.

A casing soil is designed to be less (or non) nutritious. The idea is that when the
fungi runs into it, it is stimulated to reproduce by the change.

Regarding how much lime to add, years ago now Uncle Rico at The Shroomery 
laid this one on me: for each cup of peat moss, one teaspoon of lime and one
Tablespoon of gypsum.

If you choose not to case, then you should feel free to let the sub begin pinning
before introducing it to fruiting conditions. This can help a good first flush pinset form.

One thing that I did see up-thread was the suggestion of using plain verm as
a casing soil. This is not really a casing layer per se, as verm is nutritious to
the fungi and will be consumed like the sub was. This tek works fine, and was
called the "rez effect" some time past. (as in "reservoir", as the verm hold water well).

What sort of fruiting chamber are you going to use?

Good luck,

JD


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## canndo (Mar 15, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> ok so i think i get it.....what i did with the straw wasnt casing....it is called "Bulk Spawn" basically "stretching" out my popcorn sub....making a little become "alot" and i still need to "case" them???
> 
> will be doing some more researching but would appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction as i plan on fruiting one of my straw "bulk tubs" on sunday and i really need to go into it knowing what im doing (usually helps) of couse i went into this whole project blind as can be anyways lol.



Try bringing a 70/30 vermiculite sifted coir to field moisture, put it in an oven at 160 degrees until the center gets to that temp and then one more hour, let it cool off and put about fan inch on top of your fully colonized straw. You might want to sweeten it with a bit of gypsum but you don't really need that until you start refining your work or if you us the highly acidic spagnum peat instead of coir.


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## canndo (Mar 15, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> electric blower works, some people do use a weedwacker. but the electric blower does work well.
> 
> strawcorn sub goes into a tub or has to top of the bag cut off to expose it to fruiting conditions. then when you see pins, you put your casing layer on. pasteurized potting soil works fine, straight verm, more straw or straw and verm mixed, EWC ect.
> 
> ...




Here is the first time we have gone in different directions. If you see pins, it is too late to case and you will interupt the cycle. You want to case within a day or so of total coverage of your substrate, you don't want to see primordia until you are ready, and that should be after your substrate is fully involved AND your that last inch or so of casing is growing through to the very very last little bit, where you see maybe 10 or 20 percent coverage on top of your casing. Then, and only then do you initiate your pinning strategy.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 15, 2013)

canndo said:


> Here is the first time we have gone in different directions. If you see pins, it is too late to case and you will interupt the cycle. You want to case within a day or so of total coverage of your substrate, you don't want to see primordia until you are ready, and that should be after your substrate is fully involved AND your that last inch or so of casing is growing through to the very very last little bit, where you see maybe 10 or 20 percent coverage on top of your casing. Then, and only then do you initiate your pinning strategy.


so case as soon as substrate goes into fruiting chamber case? i worry that my mycelium will just jump to growing on the casing from casing too early.


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## canndo (Mar 15, 2013)

Javadog said:


> There is a lot to impart here, and we will do this over time, but let's start with
> casing soil and layers.
> 
> First, cubes do not need a casing layer to fruit.
> ...




No, they don't "need" casing to fruit, but in order to orchestrate your pinning strategy you need to case. 


In order to get the maximum yield in the first three flushes you need to case.




If you want even pinsets and consistent coverage for the crucial flushes then you case and you riffle as well.



Tough to get this sort of distribution consistently without casing.

The point is to control conditions and initiate pinning on your own terms, not wait until the mushroom is actually pinning out of frustration. 




This is why you case.


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## canndo (Mar 15, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> so case as soon as substrate goes into fruiting chamber case? i worry that my mycelium will just jump to growing on the casing from casing too early.


You WANT it to grow through the casing, to just below the surface - all long before you have altered your co2 content or applied light or changed your temperature.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 15, 2013)

canndo said:


> You WANT it to grow through the casing, to just below the surface - all long before you have altered your co2 content or applied light or changed your temperature.


oh, okay i think i understand better now. i will have to give your method a go perhaps ive been doing it wrong.


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## canndo (Mar 15, 2013)

I have wondered how you and a few others kept mistaking casing or misusing the term. I posted several large sections on casing and why one should case and how to do it, I can't find it now, I've got to go but it makes a hell of a difference, regardless of what some may say, and I can back it up with numbers and pictures.


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## Javadog (Mar 15, 2013)

Well, you've got some great flushes there, to be sure.

I will leave the topic on this: your opinions on this matter are just that, 
your opinions....and clearly they work well for you. There are other,
most excellent, cultivators who swear that casing layers are not needed
for cubes, and their yields equal yours.

For my part, I have never gone for huge harvests, and so cannot say
definitively where I fall on the matter. I have done both cased and uncased
with success.

I do suggest that the OP use one because it makes the effort more forgiving, IMO.

I tend to avoid definitive statements regarding this hobby, but then
my approach seems to be continually trying new species, and so I am
always lost. :0)

I am getting my first G. lutefolius pins and purpuratus is right after it. (only
got juronus and dilepsis before). I even have the unusual-active C. smithii
on agar, and the bleeding Pluteus as well. 

Check out this furry Volvariella....it busts out of an egg like the Alien!


So, good luck OP, I am sure that you will rock!

JD


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## polyarcturus (Mar 15, 2013)

canndo said:


> I have wondered how you and a few others kept mistaking casing or misusing the term. I posted several large sections on casing and why one should case and how to do it, I can't find it now, I've got to go but it makes a hell of a difference, regardless of what some may say, and I can back it up with numbers and pictures.


i remember reading it. i remember reading several styles in casing afterwards too lol. but ill give a go, how long before exposing to whole thing to fruiting conditions after casing? 3-4 days?(reason i case so late is i was always told (elsewhere) you sont want your casing to grow mycelium)


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## Thundercat (Mar 15, 2013)

Javadog said:


> Well, you've got some great flushes there, to be sure.
> 
> I will leave the topic on this: your opinions on this matter are just that,
> your opinions....and clearly they work well for you. There are other,
> ...


Those are beautiful mushrooms man, I can only imagine how cool it is to watch them burst out!


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## Javadog (Mar 15, 2013)

They are freaky....the funny thing is that this genus is one of 
the most popular in the orient.

We have all had a "straw mushroom" as part of some dish.

They are actually eaten in the "egg stage". I was wanting to 
take spore prints. You can see the pink spores on the far 
side of that tub.

I like the crazier stuff.

This is one of my favorites, Gymnopilus dilepsis:


We have to watch fungi like we watch our plants. They tell us what they need.
It just takes time to learn their language (I am still working on this ;0)

Take care,

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 15, 2013)

canndo said:


> Do some searches on this site and you will find all sorts of tidbits of info (from me), and a few pictures that should establish my street creds.
> 
> but I don't mind spending the time in order to turn folks away from the dark side - PF tek. As I said, the man who invented it was a genius at marketing and he made millions, he died last year I believe from hepititis. Those of us who had been growing for decades before he came along appreciated his work and we all quitely spanked ourselves for not having thought of the whole scheme before he did. Of course, in the end, he got a case of hubris, began sending instructions on the use of his spore syringes with each purchase and that made him an accomplice in the manufacture of a controled substance - and he went away for a few years and his empire crumbled but his PF Tek lived on. None of my compatriots thought much of that until we began to see what damage it does to people's notions of the organism and so you see my campaign.
> 
> ...


i understand you have talked about casing several times. I am just confused because when i mentioned a layer above you told me to mix it in so the mycelium can grow side to side and not up...so thats what i did. 

i think i have a good idea of what to do just not 100%, either way ill get something out of this im sure. i will likely do a side by side of cased vs uncased....all same exact conditions..this way we can see my results on the what seems to be verry controversial topic.


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## Javadog (Mar 15, 2013)

What sort of fruiting chamber are you using?

Are you doing monotubs? (or a greenhouse or SGFC?)

I apologize, as I skimmed the thread.

Good luck,

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 15, 2013)

im just using lasagna pans....lines with a plastic bag. 

not sure if there going to work but will concor that feat when i get there...out of funding right now so buying more stuff is not a option.

i did do a bulk sub in a clear tote that im not really sure how im going to set up....i wish i had known a bit more when i went shoppung i would have bought smaller lasagna pans with no lids and a couple more totes...next time i suppose.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 15, 2013)

well if its a clear tub set it in their living room and tell them to mist it 2x a day if they want any


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## Javadog (Mar 15, 2013)

Polyarcturus is correct, if I am reading you correctly.

A "*lasagna pan*" will work fine....but you will typically place the tray
in a greenhouse or a ShotGun Fruiting Chamber to fruit. 

In lieu of anything else to use, then you can just drop the tray onto 
the bottom of a tub and treat it as a "monotub".

This is what your "*bulk sub in a clear tote*" sounds like.

What mushrooms need to fruits is "fresh air exchanges" (FAE). In a monotub
this is provided by holes that you cut in the tub. Usually there are 4-8 holes,
a few inches wide, but this number, size and placement varies widely among 
cultivators.

So, if you cut holes in your tote, lightly fill them with polyfil, and mist and
fan them regularly, then you should be able to get a harvest.

There is more to this, as monos require patience and there is a learning curve,
but they are probably the easiest way to get bulk. (I prefer filter patch sack
blocks in my GH or my outside shade-box)

Take care,

JD

P.S. FWIW, this is Ohmatic's classic monotub thread.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 15, 2013)

he has multiple different things going on java dog.

he has the the clear tub which is a bulk mono tubs.

and he has the lasagna pans which are going into a fruiting chamber.

which as you said could be dropped into a tote and also fruited in the living room. the term "shotgun fruiting chamber" is just too long, and too specific.

simply call it the fruiting chamber(FC), and with this you can build and fruit in it how ever you want. without trying to describe it with words, because a rack with jars fruiting on top in vitro could be called a fruiting chamber.

im pretty sure his lasagna pans will end up inside another tote, greenhouse type setup, or a shotgun setup.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 15, 2013)

the clear tote has straw and popcorn directly in the bottom of the tote. 

the lasagna pans have a cover and i was going to try and fruit them right in the pan itself..i may have to get a few more totes to make SGFC's going to see how it all works out for right now. worse case i flop out and have to use the 11 jars i just started yesterday..

anyways gotta go check on them now bbl!! thanks for all the guidance!!


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## Thundercat (Mar 15, 2013)

How I set up my lasagna pans.
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp301/thundercat_420/Picture016.jpg


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 15, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> How I set up my lasagna pans.
> http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp301/thundercat_420/Picture016.jpg


yeah i realize thats the ideal way to do it...and i would love to be able to have 2 more totes but i dont have them and im piss poor right now lol. i guess i could head to wal mart and check out totes to see if there are any i can afford....really i only need 2 since i only have 4 pans with straw. i have one pan that has the popcorn sub mixed in with vermiculite that i fear isnt going to do anything. 

ill keep you guys updated.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 15, 2013)

ok managed to get two more clear plastic totes....will be enough room in them for 2 pans. will put perilite on the bottom for humidity and drill some 1/2 inch holes around the sides and a couple 1 inch holes on the top...then going to place solo cups on top of the holes on the lid with holes drilled in the side.this should remove chances of airbornes falling into the top holes..


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 15, 2013)

also got some miracle grow seed starter which is 90% peat...all i could find so gonna have to work with it. it does have some MG nutes in it though....what kind of role will these play in this? 


my thoughts...

Cando said cubenis are primary decomposers....so dont they decomp what they need for nutrient instead of using availables like ferts??


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 15, 2013)

ok also picture this?


i have a whole bale of straw...what if....

I took an entire room and sterilized it, then plasticed it. shredded the hay with a wood chipper...

then spread the hay on the floor of the room. inoculated it with a jar of colonized corn and left it in the dark for a month...mist it (theres a window in the room) and open the window.....

funny thing is this may actully be an option 

what you guys think?

new meaning for bulk sub....maybe i can make the guiness book HAHA


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 15, 2013)

Dude that's going to be some Room!! Shroomies on the floor! YummY haha


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## Javadog (Mar 15, 2013)

Cubensis will eat most anything. I have used compost, aged manure,
straw, and even sawdust based subs.

Straw can rock and resists contams better than some other subs.

One thing: you referred to using perlite and 1/2" and 1" holes.

This sounds like you are combining a SGFC with a monotub here.

Monos usually have polyfil lightly stuffed into some or all of the holes,
where SGFC use 1/4" holes, 2" inches apart, on all six sides (inc the lid),
and have 4" of moistened perlite placed onto the bottom.

FWIW, I would recommend making a SGFC, if your tub has the "head-room"
to allow the perlite, the height of your sub, and the hoped for height of the fruits.
SGFCs can maintain a workable humidity level for several weeks at least.

LOL, but then again, I usually do not recommend new cultivators skip over 
BRF cakes for grains. A BRF cake, rolled in verm, can take a ton of abuse
and still produce. This approach is smart for people starting.

Good luck,

JD


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 15, 2013)

Javadog said:


> Cubensis will eat most anything. I have used compost, aged manure,
> straw, and even sawdust based subs.
> 
> Straw can rock and resists contams better than some other subs.
> ...


JD, when you dunk and roll what water do you use or is used? or tap water is just fine?


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## Javadog (Mar 15, 2013)

Yes. A fully colonized BRF cake is very contam resistant.

I pop the cake out of the jar, and under the faucet in the kitchen sink
I brush off the loos top-verm and such.

I then put the cake into more cold tap water and let it soak for a day,
in the fridge. (I use gallon ziplocks to hold the cakes in water, putting
them in a tub in the fridge)

Once the "dunk" is done, we "roll" the cake in verm, and put it into the SGFC.

Spray it once or twice a day, and fan the stale air out of the FC often.

In about two weeks (less for many cubes, longer for Penis Envy, etc) 
you should see pins forming on the cake.



Take care,

JD

P.S. Here are a couple nice cake shots:


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## Javadog (Mar 15, 2013)

I should add that if I were to describe what might be the "best approach",
knowing that this is a matter of opinion, then I would suggest:

spores -> agar -> grains -> G2G spawn expansion -> sterile subs in filter patch sacks.

...but I have a laminar flow hood. Working with agar does not absolutely require one,
but man do they make life easier! (the word, for me, is really not "easier" but "possible" ;0)

Using agar allow one to clean up dirty samples, be they wild prints or purchased syringes.

(as was stated above, a surprisingly large percentage of syringes are infected,
with bacteria usually....any vendor selling Trichoderma syringes would not last long!)

Good luck,

JD


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## polyarcturus (Mar 16, 2013)

hey matt this is my agar jar that was successfully inoculated. basically since i didnt get any growth i would really like to see, so im not gonna be doing an isolation, plus its much too late for that. (cutting away a section of combined spore mycelium, i use a PCed exacto knife in a glove box and quickly transferred it.) and i plan on getting some more spores soon anyways. so what i will be doing instead is much like a G2G, i will take a jar of PCed popcorn and quickly pour it in and allow it to colonize the popcorn for more G2G. i could also add a sharp object and cut the mycelium up, add water and food and make an LC too, the options are limitless with agar. 

hey canndo i got some jars fighting contam(5 to be exact) where the mycelium has a foot hold and is slowly overtaking the contam, anything i can do to salvage these? any idea for them, even outside.. or just toss them?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 16, 2013)

when i went and checked on my jars yesterday it seemed my G2G was a huge sucess....mycelium is already taking a strong foothold in the jars and had covered the entire top of the grain in the jar...i shook them up real good and will be leaving them alone...

i have a strange feeling that by mid week i will have 11 more jars full colonized and ready to go to thier bulk sub.....i didnt realize this stuff can grow so dam fast...it must be my incubator??? definatly worth the 25 bucks i spent on it imho and i think i would recomend anyone who askes to make one..

my straw in my first bulk sub is looking crazy, mycelium is just invading the hell out of it!!! tomorow i will be casing at least 1 of the bulk subs. ill be getting some more shots up today and tomorow..

my first 1/2 assed bulk sub is looking a bit shitty (i used 100% vermiculite and mixed in the popcorn) dosent seem to be doing much, i placed a thin layer of 100% verm on top and moistened it...not sure if this if going to do anything or not but we will see i guess. 

I was under the impression that these things started pinning almost immidiatly after they were intorduced to light and FAE?? it has been like 5 days and no signs of pinning...should i place it in the refridgerator for 30 min to add a temp change? the apt they are growing in stays pretty warm in the 70's range...so the refridge is really the only way i can get that temp change to occur..

any advice would be great..tomorow i will be mixing up my casing layer and pasturizing it...need to know if that MG seed starter mix is going to be alright? should i flush the shit out of it or will the minute chemical ferts in it be ok?
a link to the seed starter information can be found here

also do i go straight to fruiting after i case or do i let it sit for a couple days in the dark? from my understanding letting it sit for a couple days to allow the mycelium to grow evenly through the casing layer will provide me with a more even pin set?

thanks anyone for your advice!! will have some mycelium pornz up today.....still verry ryzmophoric


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## Javadog (Mar 16, 2013)

Patience is the key. It can take 7-10 days for pins to appear...
...longer if the genetics do not help. You should not have to
cold shock cubes. Room temps are fine (70-80F)...lower is
better than higher, as lower means slow where higher can 
help contams get a hold.

I cannot comment on the MG....give it a whirl.

Regarding casing layers, the traditional thought is that you cover
the casing until you see the mycelium just starting to poke up through
the casing soil.

If the mycelium starts to consolidate the casing in places, then you 
can "patch" it with more casing soil.

Good luck,

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 16, 2013)

thanks  

hopefully this works out and i get some dam mushies out of the deal...my next Mj harvest is a long ways away....


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## MJG420 (Mar 16, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> thanks
> 
> hopefully this works out and i get some dam mushies out of the deal...my next Mj harvest is a long ways away....



Wow man I have been slacking for a couple days and just read through the past 2-3 pages of posts! In a way I am glad I am a little bit behind you on this project as I have learned A LOT of what to do and no do. You seem to be doing great though man and hope to see some mushie pics from you soon! Happy to hear your success with the G2G as I also plan to try it myself.  

Also want to welcom JD to the party and invite you to come stop by my journal where I am about a week or so behind Matt here(funny because my name is also Matt  ). I finally got some pictures up as well!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 16, 2013)

well i was hoping to get over to my mushies today but no such luck  was hoping to get some pics but no go. ill get some tomorow of my casing project and my FC.


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## Thundercat (Mar 16, 2013)

Glad to hear the g2g went well man. It might take a few more days for that tray to start pinning, but once it does it will likely be a very fast process. I seem to remember one of my trays taking quite a while, then it pinned and finished fruiting in well under a week. The last day inparticular before harvest you can just about watch those fuckers grow. I checked on them at like 2 oclock at lunch one day then when I got home at 5-6 they were completely open and had dropped some spores, that was specifically the tray in my avatar. I picked about half of them and let the rest get bigger over night and finished the harvest then. I completely for see you having mushrooms before the end of the month with out a doubt. Now not having some herb to smoke while on those mushrooms is another story. When I harvested my first grow bag of mushrooms after about 3 months due to bad temps, I didn't have any bud and couldn't get any where I lived. Soooo the wife and I drove about 4 hours to NY because I knew I could get weed there, got there about midnight, tripped balls until 7-8 am and then crashed for 3 hours. I had to be to work that 3pm that afternoon, was one crazy ass trip to say the least. Lesson learned that night.....try to avoid adrenaline rushes while tripping for me it is not a fun experience, good way to do that is just stay home even if going to get food sounds like a great idea!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 17, 2013)

thanks for the assurance TC needed to hear that  

well today is the day, im heading over in a couple hours to set up my FC's and case at least one pan of straw bulk sub. then into the FC. 

my problem right now is my grain is colonizing rapidly and my bulk subs are too but i need pinning to start asap because i dont want to have to trash a bunch of jars because they sit too long in the incubator. i have read that the mycelium will only last so long on the grain before the jars just become nasty..

surprisingly mycelium seems really clean, dosent smell horrible but has that earthy mushroom smell you would smell if you picked up a fresh potebela at the market and tooka whiff. seems like some verry clean stuff opossed to othe fungi/mold/bacteria which are just dirty smelling and looking...

anyways hopefully i can get a good amount done today, im looking at casing one pan but if the rest are far enough along i may just case them all and call it a day. one pan has been spawned to the bulk sub for at least a week maybe more and the others are a couple days behind it. 

Ok heres a quick?? 

what should i do with the tote that i put the straw and corn directly inside? im obviously not going to build a FC for it..i keep seeing these "monotub's" but they have some cotton ball shit in the holes drilled....whats the point of this? can i just use a clean T shirt to cover the holes? 

i was just going to drill a bunch of smaller holes around it almost like a SGFC and mist it daily.


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## Javadog (Mar 17, 2013)

> *i have read that the mycelium will only last so long on the grain before the jars just become nasty..*


This is not true....well, eventually the sub may rot, but this can take months or even years.

What drives the use of P. cubensis spawn is typically in-vitro fruiting. This is
what will happen if you leave cube spawn -> it will pop fruits inside the jar.

As to your FC ideas, these are best proven by experience. Let us know how it goes.

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 17, 2013)

sweet that eases my mind, so when my flushes are all done i should have some jars ready to roll for the next round. ill have to pick up some more lasagna pans so i can bulk spawn while im finishing off my last flush, get the jars all ready so that when the last flush is done i am ready to place my bulk spawned and cased pans into my FC's try and have as little down time as possible.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 17, 2013)

My 3 jars from 03-04-12  and here are two jars from 03-10-12 

One of my three jars from the first batch is close to around 60%-70% to be fully colonized the other two are behind but still nice growth in them.


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## Thundercat (Mar 17, 2013)

I intentionally did a bunch of jars at once, and then kept them in the fridge until I was ready to make trays with them. After the thrid flush on a tray or if it got contams, I could toss it, clean up, and make a new tray right away. At one point I had both the drawers in the bottom of my fridge filled with completely colonized pint jars(some where around 25-30) and more in my incubator to keep the cycle going.

As far as the "cotton ball" stuff, its prolly polyfill, "the stuff in pillows", this helps to filter contams but allow FAE. I used loose polyfill in my air holes at first, then later I put it in between some cloth layers and made "filter patchs" I'm not sure that the patchs worked any better or worse, but they were much neater and cleaner then the loose poly. These holes with the poly in them combined with the air pump into the water jar I've told you about also eliminated the need to fan the FC. Thus limiting the number of times I exposed the FC to contams by opening it.

I'm gonna try some different casing materials next time I do this. Last time I made my trays with just colonized WBS and course verm, then once colonized 2-3 days, I cased with straight verm and they went into the FC. I know your planning on using potting soil mixed with verm right? I know some guys use coco, and other things there are just so many options. I'd like to play with some and see what really seems to work best for me. The strain might also make a huge difference, I suppose like people some mushrooms prolly like eating certain materials more. That might be why my Koh Samoi grew so well on WBS and the Burmas grew very poorly, the Burmas might not like bird food lol. I'm also gonna try this popcorn I think because then I wouldn't have to pick out sunflower seeds.

Acid those are really colonizing well now that you got the temps fixed!


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## polyarcturus (Mar 17, 2013)

i would stay away from patches and holes in the jar, with grain, there is for sure enough air in the mix to reach full colonization.

patches get wet when you shake them, and wick water/contams in


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## Thundercat (Mar 17, 2013)

I was only talking about on my FC with the patchs man. 

Though I did use the one way breathable surgical tape on my jar lids over the inoculation points, it seemed to work well.


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## Javadog (Mar 17, 2013)

The best homemade injection port is a blob of silicone.

Drill a hole in the lid (small, like 1/8") and then put a blob over
the hole on both sides. 

The automotive silicone is best for PCing the result.

Take care,

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 17, 2013)

inoculation isnt a issue for me right now anyways....contams are staying at bay and i havent reallt had to deal with them. 

i actually made a LC syringe today with plain distilled water and used the rest of the water with some non pasturized hay to colonize my 12th jar...if i dont get contams in it i will be mindblown...


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 17, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> My 3 jars from 03-04-12 View attachment 2573009 and here are two jars from 03-10-12 View attachment 2573010
> 
> One of my three jars from the first batch is close to around 60%-70% to be fully colonized the other two are behind but still nice growth in them.


looking good man, things are coming along nicely...



Thundercat said:


> I intentionally did a bunch of jars at once, and then kept them in the fridge until I was ready to make trays with them. After the thrid flush on a tray or if it got contams, I could toss it, clean up, and make a new tray right away. At one point I had both the drawers in the bottom of my fridge filled with completely colonized pint jars(some where around 25-30) and more in my incubator to keep the cycle going.
> 
> As far as the "cotton ball" stuff, its prolly polyfill, "the stuff in pillows", this helps to filter contams but allow FAE. I used loose polyfill in my air holes at first, then later I put it in between some cloth layers and made "filter patchs" I'm not sure that the patchs worked any better or worse, but they were much neater and cleaner then the loose poly. These holes with the poly in them combined with the air pump into the water jar I've told you about also eliminated the need to fan the FC. Thus limiting the number of times I exposed the FC to contams by opening it.
> 
> ...


no i used a 80/20 peat/verm got pics coming soon waiting on the in laws to jet and ill get to uploading.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 17, 2013)

ok so heres some pics...gonna have a couple more posts and editing pics to explain a few things but heres all the original pics..

i did my G2G on Thursday


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## Thundercat (Mar 17, 2013)

Looking awesome man, looks like your gonna have some mushrooms very soon from that one tray. The rest look sweat as well, fantastic growth on them, I've never seen the straw done before looks good.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 17, 2013)

thanks man, im personally really impressed with how things are going lol


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## polyarcturus (Mar 17, 2013)

damn good job keep it up!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 17, 2013)

ok so i decided to do a liquid culture...i was pretty non sterile about this whole process so if i see contams i definatly wont be surprised. 

I took this piece of mycelium 



plced it in a 1/2 pint jar with some distilled water. shook it up vigerously and drew a syringe..

then when i was done doing that i grabbed a handfull of straw and stuffed it in the jar, shook it up and drained the excess water.

View attachment 2573810

absolutly nothing about this process was sterile....i was more or less just fucking around to see what would happen...so we will see what happens..


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 17, 2013)

and i also decided to take the rest of my jar i used for a g2g and do a mini fruit...or w/e you want to call it. 

cut the top off a soda bottle and drilled some holes in it, put some perilite oon the bottom and dumped the rest of the corn in...will see how this goes. 

View attachment 2573815


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 17, 2013)

Great idea on that mini FC, you think it's going to work? 
Anyhow shiiit looks sweet!! Can't wait to see some pinning and some shroomies


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 17, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Great idea on that mini FC,* you think it's going to work*?
> Anyhow shiiit looks sweet!! Can't wait to see some pinning and some shroomies


im kinda wondering the same thing LOL


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## polyarcturus (Mar 17, 2013)

the LC is no good, and the only way to find out is to noc up some jars, just toss it.

but i just did some risky shit my self, took 5 jars of fully colonized but slightly contaminated jars and mixed in like a 5 to 1 ratio, so colonization should only take one or 2 days then into fruit, so long as i can get a first flush im good then ill toss.


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## Javadog (Mar 17, 2013)

LCs are notorious for hiding contams.

A green mold will usually show by sporulating,
but bacteria can hide well. 

LCs usually start off cloudy when they are made. You want
to see the solution clarify over time. (the color will even fade)

I saw some strong rhizomorphic growth on that straw. This 
suggests good genetics that should make some good fruits.

Good luck,

JD


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## technical dan (Mar 17, 2013)

Looks like yours is coming right along matt. Saw yours moving too acid. 

Got back into town this afternoon and saw the first growth in one of my GT P. cube pints from my first set of inoculations. Its just a few white spots the largest looks like its just on a couple kernels, I want to wait for a bit more colonization before shaking right? 

Matt with what you said about smell, they smell fine because the shrooms will not hurt you. Your nose and sense of smell work to keep you safe especially with moldy/ spoiled food it smells bad/ gross because its dangerous for you. Thats why smelling your milk will tell you if its still good.... it is very obvious when its not. Your body or genetics or whatever knows what (at least many) harmful lifeforms smell like and will makes you perceive those smells as unpleasant to deter you from eating them/ being around them. Along with this I also smell my nute/ water mixes when they have molasses in them if the mix is more than a day or two old, after that bacterial colonies start to grow and I can smell them in there before I can see them.


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## Javadog (Mar 17, 2013)

QFT. That is a great point. A bacterial contamination is often smelled first.

Sour or sickly sweet.

Molds smell like dirt. Good growth smells like mushrooms.

Take care,

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 18, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> the LC is no good, and the only way to find out is to noc up some jars, just toss it.
> 
> but i just did some risky shit my self, took 5 jars of fully colonized but slightly contaminated jars and mixed in like a 5 to 1 ratio, so colonization should only take one or 2 days then into fruit, so long as i can get a first flush im good then ill toss.


poly, why do you say the LC is no good? is it just because of the lack of sterilization i used or is it another reason..

either wya i think ill hang on to it and try knocking up a couple jars with it if my straw jar goes south...i would be willing to be though if my straw jar dosent go south then my LC should be fine. unless i used a incorect solution to store it in...

eventually i would like to make up a few syringes o LC and do it the correct way...alll nice and sterile with a solution that will store they mycelium for a longer time...anyways...havent had any contams yet which is surprising me since the place im doing this project is definatly not the "ideal" enviorment since its far from a clean house...verry old...verry messy...verry dusty apartment...


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## polyarcturus (Mar 18, 2013)

just because you didnt do it sterile. 

ive made a couple LCs and even doing them sterile is difficult. out of everything mushroom, LC is the most difficult in my eyes.


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## growyurown (Mar 18, 2013)

I started 12 jars of grain and innoc about 5 days ago and shits taking off but looks almost like cw mold? I dont have pictures but it started as kernels that looked like they had 100 white hairs shooting out. I've never grown on corn so I have no idea.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 18, 2013)

growyurown said:


> I started 12 jars of grain and innoc about 5 days ago and shits taking off but looks almost like cw mold? I dont have pictures but it started as kernels that looked like they had 100 white hairs shooting out. I've never grown on corn so I have no idea.


try and get some pics if you can if not theres a nice link towards the begining of the journal.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 18, 2013)

heres that link....going to bookmark it

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/show...umber/17231150.


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## growyurown (Mar 18, 2013)

That second pic hit it right on the nail. I should be good to go. And after doing grain I will never go back to pf-tek. 10x faster colonization speeds.


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## growyurown (Mar 18, 2013)

Wheres canndo? Thanks to him for getting me going on grain and thanks retmatt.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 18, 2013)

dunno i think he is still lurking here just probably tired or repeating himself to me lol...

prob doing one of these every time he reads my posts


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## polyarcturus (Mar 18, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> dunno i think he is still lurking here just probably tired or repeating himself to me lol...
> 
> prob doing one of these every time he reads my posts


i think he would have to build a set of mechanical eyes to roll them at all the shit we say


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## growyurown (Mar 18, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> i think he would have to build a set of mechanical eyes to roll them at all the shit we say


Lol yea. Ive asked him a million questions and hes always happy to help. Good guy with knowledge. But anyways i hope I didnt fuck up by putting too much corn in my jars (7/ or so but he will surely chime in.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 18, 2013)

i dont think you can put too much in....a little less than full is good though because it allows you to shake them and ditribute the colonized kernels around better than a full jar. 

i also noticed that they expand a little in the pressure cooker so around 3/4 of the way is about good before PCing...a little less isnt bad either...

if your doing like i am and spawning to a bulk sub then a little bit of corn goes a long way, once the mycelium start colonizing that bulk substrate it takes off pretty fast. i used 1 1/2 pint jar of corn per tray and i feel i could have gotten away with way less....

the more corn though the faster your going to colonize your bulk sub....just because theres more surface are of mycelium to spread. 

this is just my 2¢ in my experience. i may not be 100% accurate but i cant be completly wrong either lol


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## growyurown (Mar 18, 2013)

When it does fully colonize how do you get the mycelium broken up without damaging it? I shook my jars but the colinized areas are clumps


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 18, 2013)

woot my bud just texted me and said he seen about a dozen pins and was sure that they were pins...heading over in a min with the ole camera to take some shots!!!

so excited lol


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 18, 2013)

growyurown said:


> When it does fully colonize how do you get the mycelium broken up without damaging it? I shook my jars but the colinized areas are clumps


just shake em up or break em apart. i removed my corn as a "cake" and just broke it up into the straw.. it does damage it a little but it repairs itselfquick if its strong.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 18, 2013)

i only fill my jars halfway now. if you got filter patches in the lid its vital to have less than more.


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## growyurown (Mar 18, 2013)

I just flipped the lids upside down and shut em after innoc but everything's good so far


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 18, 2013)

and its confirmed...i have pinning in my verm/popcorn tray (the first one i set out to fruit)




so i set out the 4 cased pans to fruit. only had enough perilite to do one of the FC's so i used vermiculite for the other....figure they serve the same general purpose which is to retain moisture to increase the humidity. 



and heres a couple more pics of the rest of the setup


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## Thundercat (Mar 18, 2013)

Yay pins now it gets fun!


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## technical dan (Mar 18, 2013)

Looks nice matt!

Today I saw that I have white mycelium growing in my second P. cube pint. But then I also saw that I have rust colored bacterial looking contamination in the first P. cube pint and in my 1/2 pint P. galindoa (no visible myc.) and then some kind of myc. that is not P. cube in my P. cube half pint. I took all the contam jars out of the incubator so the contams will not grow as quickly.... but these jars should just be tossed now or should I keep them in the cooler conditions and see if the shroom mycelium wins out? I already threw the P. cube 1/2 pint away since there was visible contam and no visible myc. growth.


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## Javadog (Mar 18, 2013)

Congrats on the new fruits.

I am sure that more are about to pop up.

Have fun.

JD

P.S. There is no need to throw any lost jars away. You may want to re-boil or PC
them to make sure that you do not spread mold spores. I have kept some older 
jars, just to see what would win. The result is almost always tossing the jar at
some point, and even if the mushroom appears to win, there is likely a hidden
contam in the spawn that will show itself once the sub gets tired. You can still
get flushes though. Good luck!


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## polyarcturus (Mar 18, 2013)

just threw a vid up of me doing an isolation on agar and inoc some grain with agar for g2g on m thread. check it out when you get a chance guys.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 19, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Yay pins now it gets fun!


yeah im hoping by end of week i can harvest some fruits.....im just anxious to watch them grow. once i get stuff fruiting fully i think my next grow will be better since i will have that impatience to fruit out of the way....i really should have waited on fruiting the 2 SGFC's with the peat/verm casing untill i seen a even mycelium spread across the top of the casing but i dont want to stagger everything too much. from now on though ill be doing 5 pans at a time and using the 2 larger totes and the one smaller tote. anyways live and learn...im pretty sure now ill get a decent harvest. if that pan of just colonized popcorn and plain vermiculite will fruit im sure the straw bulk will 



technical dan said:


> Looks nice matt!
> 
> Today I saw that I have white mycelium growing in my second P. cube pint. But then I also saw that I have rust colored bacterial looking contamination in the first P. cube pint and in my 1/2 pint P. galindoa (no visible myc.) and then some kind of myc. that is not P. cube in my P. cube half pint. I took all the contam jars out of the incubator so the contams will not grow as quickly.... but these jars should just be tossed now or should I keep them in the cooler conditions and see if the shroom mycelium wins out? I already threw the P. cube 1/2 pint away since there was visible contam and no visible myc. growth.


sorry cant like this post...too many mentiones of contams....hope the couple jars that have mycelium in the work out well. feel free to post pics if you like


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## technical dan (Mar 19, 2013)

Thank you. Yep there is more contam than I hoped to see and if it keeps showing up in my other jars then I deff. have a problem somewhere. When Im at the store next I'm going to look to see if they have the stuff for a homemade agar tek. It seems a bit early for me to be jumping in to that (esp. since I dont even have full colonization, and have never fruited/ very little exp) but agar really looks like the way to go. 

My camera is not good and has IMO questionable focus points but I took pics of a couple jars and circled stuff with paint. Mycelium is in blue circles and rust bacteria (?) in the orange area. The bacterial colonies are hard to find in person and nonexistent in the pic but the circling and marks show the area they are in.


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## technical dan (Mar 19, 2013)

circles are hard to see I might bold them later when I have a lil time


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## MJG420 (Mar 19, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> just shake em up or break em apart. i removed my corn as a "cake" and just broke it up into the straw.. it does damage it a little but it repairs itselfquick if its strong.


Not sure about this..... seems something on my end has gone horribly wrong! Things were looking great on Friday and I gave all the jars a good shaking, checked them yesterday and nothing....


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 19, 2013)

i have been shakin the rat piss out of mine to mix up the colonized kernels as much as possible and withing 2-3 days i see new mycelium growing. 

what did you say your temps were? may be on the low side so growth is slower.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 19, 2013)

technical dan said:


> Thank you. Yep there is more contam than I hoped to see and if it keeps showing up in my other jars then I deff. have a problem somewhere. When Im at the store next I'm going to look to see if they have the stuff for a homemade agar tek. It seems a bit early for me to be jumping in to that (esp. since I dont even have full colonization, and have never fruited/ very little exp) but agar really looks like the way to go.
> 
> My camera is not good and has IMO questionable focus points but I took pics of a couple jars and circled stuff with paint. Mycelium is in blue circles and rust bacteria (?) in the orange area. The bacterial colonies are hard to find in person and nonexistent in the pic but the circling and marks show the area they are in.
> 
> View attachment 2576531View attachment 2576532



that second jar looks promising. all you need is one good jar with grain and your good. g2g transfers arent as complex as they seem and once you have fully colonized mycelium going into a new jar it takes hold fast...much faster than using a syringe. in my experience. 

i really think having the temp swings from 74-84 in my incubator is contributing the my speeds though.


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## canndo (Mar 19, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> View attachment 2571294
> 
> hey matt this is my agar jar that was successfully inoculated. basically since i didnt get any growth i would really like to see, so im not gonna be doing an isolation, plus its much too late for that. (cutting away a section of combined spore mycelium, i use a PCed exacto knife in a glove box and quickly transferred it.) and i plan on getting some more spores soon anyways. so what i will be doing instead is much like a G2G, i will take a jar of PCed popcorn and quickly pour it in and allow it to colonize the popcorn for more G2G. i could also add a sharp object and cut the mycelium up, add water and food and make an LC too, the options are limitless with agar.
> 
> hey canndo i got some jars fighting contam(5 to be exact) where the mycelium has a foot hold and is slowly overtaking the contam, anything i can do to salvage these? any idea for them, even outside.. or just toss them?



Bury them in the ground. I did this with quick failed run of agaricus and got surprised yesterday as I was planting a tree with some fruit, you might have the same experience.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 19, 2013)

i made a big bulk bag out of them with some added sub, i figured i toss it in the garage in a week when it warms up.


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## canndo (Mar 19, 2013)

growyurown said:


> Wheres canndo? Thanks to him for getting me going on grain and thanks retmatt.



He is working on his new projects - you guys have things under control here.


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## canndo (Mar 19, 2013)

Javadog said:


> Well, you've got some great flushes there, to be sure.
> 
> I will leave the topic on this: your opinions on this matter are just that,
> your opinions....and clearly they work well for you. There are other,
> ...



I pride myself on my open mindedness but you seem to have bested me on that.


Nice picture, nice project. I did some studies to determine the efficacy of casing vs not casing for myself, and could never manage to get the same production in the first three flushes - I set a limit there. I would love to work with some of your items. I am looking for production methods more than anything else as you seem to have divined but oysters on Palm waste is my pursuit now.

So I am more opinionated than you on this subject - and.... PF tek as so many here already know.


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## Javadog (Mar 19, 2013)

No worries. I saw only good in your stuff.

As to Oysters, this is good too, as Pleurotis eats anything, and
is as reliable an edible fruiter as there is.

What species? (Ostreatus is what might be called the "plain" variety ;0)

I can send you an agar wedge of something if you do not have 
genetics to start from.

Good luck,

JD


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## technical dan (Mar 19, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> that second jar looks promising. all you need is one good jar with grain and your good. g2g transfers arent as complex as they seem and once you have fully colonized mycelium going into a new jar it takes hold fast...much faster than using a syringe. in my experience.


Yep thats the plan. I had been originally thinking to fruit the two pints and g2g the 1/2 pint assuming no contam which is not the case. Now I think I'll g2g that second jar (assuming colonization and all that) into three or four pints and go from there.


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## MJG420 (Mar 19, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> i have been shakin the rat piss out of mine to mix up the colonized kernels as much as possible and withing 2-3 days i see new mycelium growing.
> 
> what did you say your temps were? may be on the low side so growth is slower.


I have been using a seedling heating mat to keep my jars warm so of anything they are to warm. I shook the jars real good on Friday(had lots of healthy growth) and checked them again yesterday and it almost seems as of the growth that was there has now died off? Will give them a few more days and see what happens, but probably going to start more jars to be sure something happens....


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 19, 2013)

MJG420 said:


> I have been using a seedling heating mat to keep my jars warm so of anything they are to warm. I shook the jars real good on Friday(had lots of healthy growth) and checked them again yesterday and it almost seems as of the growth that was there has now died off? Will give them a few more days and see what happens, but probably going to start more jars to be sure something happens....


if there was growth in there it should pop back up...i dont know alot about this shit though just my experiences


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## polyarcturus (Mar 19, 2013)

get them off the seedling maT!!! too hot!!!!!! put the seedling mat under a blanket under the tote.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 19, 2013)

just an FYI guys internl temps will always be several degrees hotter than the external or ambient temps.


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## Thundercat (Mar 19, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> just an FYI guys internl temps will always be several degrees hotter than the external or ambient temps.


I competely agree, when I first built my incubator I had it set to 81-82, but once I got 24-30 jars of myc going in there I had to lower it about 3-4 degrees because the ambient temp went up from the colonization.


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## Javadog (Mar 19, 2013)

Agreed. The metabolism of the fungi will create additional heat.

Really room temps are good for cubensis growth.

Incubators cause more problems than they solve in my experience.
(they can rock if well controlled, I am sure)

When a cube strain is shaken, and it does not recover in a few days,
then it was likely contaminated (usually with bacteria).

Some species are sensitive to shaking, for example those of the genus Panaeolus.
(ever heard of "pan cyans"? This is a Panaeolus)

Not cubes. Shaking at 20% should finish a quart in a week or so.

Good luck,

JD


----------



## Thundercat (Mar 19, 2013)

I've read about cyans, they sound awesome I'd love to try some none cubensis mushrooms. I've heard that the cyans can be a bitch to grow though, and that they do better outdoors? Have you ran them java?


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## MJG420 (Mar 19, 2013)

Javadog said:


> Agreed. The metabolism of the fungi will create additional heat.
> 
> Really room temps are good for cubensis growth.
> 
> ...


Yeah I am worried I had/have some sort of contamination that may have killed off what was growing. Will unplug the heating mat right now as that is probably another issue. Any chance of them recovering if it was to much heat? Starting another couple jars tomorrow, boiled my corn tonight and am letting it sit over night to dry (unlike the last time hence the use of vermiculite...) so growth should be much easier to see this time. Grrr bit of a setback but still shooting for at least a few caps by 4/20. So disappointed right now but all part of the learning process! . Just glad I have spores left over from my first attempt.


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## Javadog (Mar 19, 2013)

Patience and persistence are the two keys.

I have a tent of superb AK-47 budsicles at 5.5 weeks...and I will not be
even thinking about touching them for another month, two with drying
and the start of curing. This all takes patience! lol

As to Pans, I found them to be relatively finicky, but if you can get 
a strong strain, then they work pretty well.

This is Panaeolus tropicalis (left way too long and sporulating all over):


This is Panaeolus cinctulus (third flush):


You can move to pans, and Gyms (Gymnopilus are cool, and active ;0), as you move to more
advanced techniques. 

If the bug really bites you, then I would recommend a laminar flow hood. :0)

Take care,

JD


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## Thundercat (Mar 20, 2013)

How much difference would you say there is between the different ? species? with regards to the effects, noticeable that your eating something different?

Those are some beautiful mushrooms for sure!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 20, 2013)

MJG420 said:


> Yeah I am worried I had/have some sort of contamination that may have killed off what was growing. Will unplug the heating mat right now as that is probably another issue. Any chance of them recovering if it was to much heat? Starting another couple jars tomorrow, boiled my corn tonight and am letting it sit over night to dry (unlike the last time hence the use of vermiculite...) so growth should be much easier to see this time. Grrr bit of a setback but still shooting for at least a few caps by 4/20. So disappointed right now but all part of the learning process! . Just glad I have spores left over from my first attempt.


yeah i would leave the verm out of it....just boil the corn till you see them splitting. then toss in a colendar and into the fridge overnight to dry..then fill jars up no more than 3/4 of the way. 1lb of popcorn should fill up 12 1/2 pint jars. then PC them and your in business. the popcorn will expand more in the PC so you dont want to fill them right up. 

let us know how you make out man, hope all goes well for you.....sending good vibes your way!!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 20, 2013)

went over to the grow yesterday and the pins have doubled in size in 1 day...hope if i go over today they have doubled again. i should be starting to fruit my 2 bigger totes today or tomorow just waiting on mycelium to work its way through the peat/verm so i can get a more even pin set on first flush. 

the smaller tote that had the non cut up hay in it colonized really well on the bottom of the tote, so to remedy this i put the lid on the tote and gave the straw/pocorn "cake" the fliperoo....so the whole tote is upside down and the cake is sitting on the lid....i then covered it in dry vermiculite and misted it with distilled water. should see some pinning sooon i hope. these are all my trial pans...the 2 bigger totes are going to be my "real" pans so im trying to go by the book on them...the others im just messing around with.

once i get some money flowing i need to buy some more pans, totes so that i can utilize all 12 of my jars, each lasagna pan is good for 1 1/2 pint of sub to go into the shredded straw, this seems to colonoze really good within 5 days. then another 5 days after the casing layer is put on and that seems to be about the going rate....the 2 pans i cased the other day were starting to show mycelium through the casing layer on day 2 so im guessing by day 5 they will be ready to fruit. 

if i can get 12 lasagna pans and 6 totes (each tote fits 2 cakes, or pans) then i can have 6 FC's going each cycle...i do need to get one more 1/2 pint jar so i always have that extra one kicking around for my G2G transfers after i use the other 12 for my bulk sub. 

this round i was a bit hasty in using jars when they became ready instead of waiting for the whole group to finish.....next round i wont be so hasty and everything will get used at the same time...this way i can figure out a good system and keep this project rolling. 

anyways we got 12+ inches of snow here where im at so i may not make it out to my grows today but if i do bet your ass there will be pics coming later!!

good vibes to everyone who is having a hard time with thiers....i havent seen a drop of contams yet and im thanking the mushi gods...

a quick overview of my process.....

*-Incubator-*
Mini fridge incubator..cost around 40 bucks to make and that includes all the little perk things i added to it like a LED on the outside to monitor when the light is on and off..
~you can prob find a cheap junk mini fridge somewhere...craigslist, dump....just look around
~Home Depot carries the analog thermostat, its made by honeywell and its 20 bucks..I am having luck with large temp swings due to the inacuracy of the analog timer...took me a bit to get the settings right on it but eventually i got it to where i want. 
~Home depot also carries the light bulb fixture, its a buck and some change. 
~A CFL light bulb
~indoor outdoor temp humidity monitor so you can monitor the high and low of the incubator. 10 bucks
~ A small piece of ply wood, free just look around. 
~ some black high temp spray paint 4 bucks
~ A PC fan and old AC-DC charger to push the heat around...this should be free too...just head to your local PC repair shop and ask if they have any used ones...they usually have handfulls of them...for free or really cheap.
~ Some wire nuts and heat shrink tubes...can get a small kit for around 5 bucks if you dont have this stuff already.

ill put up some pics and a small tutorial on how i built my incubator...i think the incubator is the cause of alot of my sucess....also if you dont want the 10 degree temp swings i think a more expensive digital thermostat will remedy that.

*-Pressure Cooker-
*If you dont have one...get one. wal mart sells 6 Qt PC's for 32 bucks.....you should be able to do 6 1/2 pint jars in it. i got the 8 qt one and can do 8 1/2 pint jars...so to do my 12 jars i have to do 2 runs...if i had the exp i have now i would have just gone with the cheaper 6qt one because i have to do 2 runs anyways.

12, 1/2 pint jars, i drilled holes in the lid and i use mine rubber seal down. 

heavy duty aluminum foil.....dont go cheap...its not worth the hasssle of dealing with paper thin foil.

yellow popcorn...

a glove box that broke but i think it still did the trick

lysol disenfectant spray....3 cans 10 bucks..

Bleach and some spray bottle

rubber gloves, a buck at wal mart for them yellow ones mom used to clean the toilet....re usable.

now i will say this..you dont want to shell out a few bucks for the bare necesities and try and 1/2 ass shit....your setting yourself up to fail. i dont mean to be mean...but it is what it is..

ok.....heres what i did. 

1) I boiled my popcorn (way too much my first run, like i said above a 1 lb bag should do 12 jars.) untill it was splitting, left it out to dry over night. then filled my jars and placed the tin foil on top
2) sterilized my jars in the PC at 15 psi for 1 hour..let the first batch cool in the fridge while i cooked the second. the second batch got cooled in the freezer to cut down on wait time.
3) Placed EVERYTHING....i would be using for inoculation in the glove box. syringe, jars...and well thats about it. sprayed with a strong bleach water solution and let sit for 10 min..
4) This is when i broke my glove box...it ended up not being 100% air tight and this is where i would like to suggest just getting a big tote, cut a couple holes in it, and place some plastic wrap over them before you spray with bleach. then have some nice long gloves on, spray them iwth bleach and just go right in and work through the holes...this makes it easier to work without the gloves being attached to the box..anyways...i knocked up my jars because at this point i was past the point of no return. 
5) took jars out and placed them into my incubator.....after i seen some clusters of white i shook, kept shaking every time i seen clusters..untill i had clusters on most of the outside then just left alone. 

before i started any inoculation process i sprayed the holy rat shit out of the room i was working in with lysol disenfectant spray and let sit for a couple hours...then sprayed again lightly 20 min before i used the room....i think this helped alot with any airborne contams....

now im not saying my method is 100% fool proof...but taking them few extra steps like using the glove box even though it wasnt 100% air tight it was still filled with a strong bleach water mist all over everything..spraying down with lysol a few hours prior then again 20 min prior.....i feel that these few things helped me be contam free...you have to imagine these contams are everywhere so you want to make it so that if they enter your enviorment they will likely die before they get into that tiny little inoculation point (holes in jar lid) i had bleach water covering every surface of the glove box and the surface of the tin foil. be carefull with the bleach though as it will kill your spores as well. 

now, i want to make a disclaimer. I am a newb, maybe im having some beginers luck, maybe im doing things right....either way i am seeing all of you guys having bumps in the road and i wanted to share *what I did. *my methods may not be the best and most suggested way but they have proven to yeild results for me. 

Lysol is some killer shit...use the fuck out of it......work in your bath tub because the hard surfaces can be disenfected much easier than walls. or even build a small grow box muxh like you would for a Mj grow..line the wals with plastic, put a small light in there and go in and disenfect the entire place, with all your inoculation stuff already inside...then when its time for you to go in, take the lysol with and sray behind you as you go in...seal it up and give a quick spray again (not so much you cant stand to be in there) 

anyways....Im about done with my long ass post...i will end it with saying one more time that you need to have PC, bleach, gloves, lysol and a easily sanitized area to work in....bathrooms usually work well...a glovebox works great even if it isnt 100% built to medical standards. the cover keeps things from falling into your work station and the plastic is easily sanitized. 

sorry for such a long post...i just want to see you guys get better results....something is going wrong. again i think alot of my sucess is due to the incubator (providing i do a good job keeping it sterile till then) 

peace n chicken grease homies


----------



## technical dan (Mar 20, 2013)

nice write up matt the only thing I have issue with is when you said "you have to imagine these contams are everywhere". That gets the idea across but I think it would be more accurate to say "you have to realize these contams are everywhere". They say nearly the same thing but the word imagine implies (at least when I read it) that the contams are in the corner or otherwise present somewhere around (like hiding in a corner watching you) while as we know they are absolutely everywhere (air, skin, breath, surfaces ect.) around/ inside/ on you. I think the second statement reflects that a bit better ..... just my 1.8547 cents.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 20, 2013)

yeah, but i guess what i meant is because you cant see them you have to imagine or visualize them in your head.....if you look at the air when the sun is beaming you can see them floating all around....like Cando said they are not all free floating themselvs they are attached to dust, dander, pet hair and other non microsocopic particle. anyways you are right they are everywhere and its impossible to make them go away so the only thing you can do is kill them and then block live ones from entering your work station.


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## Javadog (Mar 20, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> How much difference would you say there is between the different ? species? with regards to the effects, noticeable that your eating something different?
> 
> Those are some beautiful mushrooms for sure!


Well, I have to admit that I have not had the chance to try Pans yet.

I need to gather my flight crew and do this....but honestly trying Gyms
is a higher priority right now. They are reported to be....different...from cubes.

I hear that Pans can be around 3X as strong as cubes, so start off with a
half gram to a gram when you start. I screwed around with penis envy 
and got my head kicked in...metaphysically speaking, of course. :0)

Take care,

JD


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## Thundercat (Mar 20, 2013)

So pans are just strong, gyms are diffferent ok.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 20, 2013)

Well some good and bad news...


the good news is that the ones that have started fruiting are doubling by the day. 

the bad news is i have contam in almost everything except the one pan thats fruiting.... green penicilin mold....scooped it out and hit the area with a strong bleach water solution and im hoping for the best...figure its too late to start over now...put them into fruiting and hopefully the mycelium wins out..

I do have one queastion. will the mushrooms be poisonous because of this green mold? i mean i want to grow them out but if im risking growing something that could be harmfull when people eat them i dont want to take the risk. 

I am blaming myself for not taking more cleanlyness into my work while doing certain things....from now on everything is going to be nice n clean when i work...i started gettin cocky and its my own fault. will be setting up a mushroom work station where i can disenfect it and go in and work in a clean enviorment...no flow hood but it will be like i had mentioned above....pretty much a box with plastic around it. 

anyways heres some pics..


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## Thundercat (Mar 20, 2013)

That sucks about the contams man, but the fruits are looking great!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 20, 2013)

yeah, not sure how good of an idea the strong bleach water solution was but i figure it will kill anything present and evaporate afterwards leaving the medium good for mycelium to grow into


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## Javadog (Mar 20, 2013)

Gyms are much weaker than cubes. Over at the Shroomery there is a thread in
which cultivators (and wild gatherers) are trying to nail down exactly how much
one needs, but it is easily several times that of cubes.

Pans are consistently recognized as being around 3 X cubes, though this varies somewhat.

JD


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## canndo (Mar 20, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> Well some good and bad news...
> 
> 
> the good news is that the ones that have started fruiting are doubling by the day.
> ...



Contams on the top - look for over humidification, stagnant air, your ph and your timing. Remember that pasteurization gives you about a two week window. 

You have some weighing of choices now - you can hold fast to your methods in control or you can chuck your contaminated grows. 


It is said that some molds will contaminate your fruit but I have never wanted to feed my friends anything that I wouldn't eat myself. I love every edible mold I have encountered from truffles to whatever the hell is in blue cheese or on camenbert but I am not going to take the chance, however remote it may be.


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## Mookjong (Mar 20, 2013)

"When in doubt, throw it out."

 blue cheese is absolutely disgusting.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 20, 2013)

Mookjong said:


> "When in doubt, throw it out."
> 
> blue cheese is absolutely disgusting.


except when its weed then its Delicious!


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## canndo (Mar 20, 2013)

Mookjong said:


> "When in doubt, throw it out."
> 
> blue cheese is absolutely disgusting.



It has nothing on Casu Marzu. The first time I saw it, I threw it out whereupon my father yelled at me . . . a lot.
[h=1][/h]
The second time I tried to eat it.


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## Javadog (Mar 20, 2013)

Sorry, I missed this:


> *will the mushrooms be poisonous because of this green mold?*


Absolutely not. Trich is probably good for us too, and we all know about penicillin. 

Seriously, when you get a burst up of trick like that, you can usually point the blame
at the spawn used. Molds have a way of hiding.

There is no proven way of beating the green monster. It is like "the borg" of plants.

The best bet is to try to fruit is outdoors, away from your other efforts.

These are P. cubensis Quila, dumped into a pot of chives:



Good luck,

JD


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## Thundercat (Mar 20, 2013)

I buried a tray out in a garden at the house I lived at when I was growing shrooms. Nothing came up while I lived there but I've wondered if anything has come up since. I've read its possible for the myc to lay dormant for awhile outside? I've always thought it would be really funny to go back and visit in a few years and find them in the garden.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 20, 2013)

i really dont want to chuck it...maybe i didnt pasturize the medium long enough...i had it in there at 170 (so the dial on the stove said) for around 35 min...maybe i will crank up the heat a bit next time. 

i was thinking maybe the salt based nutes in the MG were allowing the green mold to build up faster...maybe next time ill also flush the peat out really well or buy some non nuted medium to case with


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## canndo (Mar 20, 2013)

some substrates are intentional inoculated with tric. All the more reason to pasteurize.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 20, 2013)

i did pasturize...well at least what i though was pasturizing....going to make sure next time i do it 100% correct...hopefully it dosent turn into full blown contam as i really was looking foward to fruiting these...


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## Javadog (Mar 20, 2013)

Ugh...TBH, I am not sure where to begin. 

Do not oven pasteurize. 

Hydrate your substrate or casing soil to "field capacity", pack it into
water tight containers* with one having a candy thermometer stuck
into it. Put these containers in a vessel of water, off the bottom, and
raise the water temps to boiling. When the temp inside the sub gets
to 115 F** turn off the heat, move the vessel to a different stove element,
and watch the temps. The should get to the right range, and, if your
vessel is large enough (i.e. a large "heat sink") then it is likely that
you will not need to heat the water again to get to the 60-90 minute window.

* The vessels can be mason jars, oven bags, or any autoclavable sack.

** 115 F works for me. I use a Johnson Controls A-419 to do the shut off for me.

Good luck,

JD


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## polyarcturus (Mar 20, 2013)

yeah java dog is right oven pasteurization works well. but field cap works better. 
but it takes a lot longer to do a lot more. in my thread pasteurization of about 3 gal straw verm in pillow case on the stove took about 3-4 hours.
im actually gonna do what java dog suggests next time. it makes more sense placing it inside jars in a water bath to pasteurize.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 20, 2013)

sounds like a pita lol 

ill just get a couple big mason jars and fkin PC the shit for an hour?


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## polyarcturus (Mar 20, 2013)

no not PC, just a pot with water and some foil on top of the jars.

PC means sterile.


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## growyurown (Mar 20, 2013)

So put the casing in quart jars and then put in a boiling pot of water until the internal temp is 115? Then what? Im still kinda lost but im new to growing mushrooms.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 20, 2013)

yeah but whats wrong with sterile?


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## polyarcturus (Mar 20, 2013)

prone to contamination.

when you got to mix your mycleium with your sub you will contaminate it, because there is no mycelium or bacteria to prevent contamination germination.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 20, 2013)

with pasteurization you leave good bacteria and microbes.


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## Javadog (Mar 20, 2013)

Poly is spot-on.

A sterilized sub (or casing soil, though those are, by design, not 
as nutritious, so it is not as critical there....it is the species of shroom
that need a "live casing soil" that drive the issue for casing soils, but
I massively digress ;0) is wide open to contamination. It is like, whatever
lands there is going to rock. One trich spore and it's mean green all over.

I am finding that these posts open up serious novellas...and I cannot
type that much, nor do you want to read that much, and so I will
drop what bits I can as we go along.

The plain fact is that pasteurization is one major PITA. You have to get
"the stuff" to 140-160 F and then you need to keep it in that window
for 90 minutes. This is part of the hobby that calls for you to pull up
a chair and read a book, next to the effort.

There are easier and harder efforts. Straw? Yes, the pillow case rocks.
...and you just measure the temps of the water it is in. A casing soil
where you have the moisture level just right? For that you must put the
material in a water tight container in which it can still be heated.

I just cased eight blocks the other day (PE, Agaricus Blazei Murrill, 
and Psilocybe pseudoaztecorum) and for this I made six quarts of
casing soil ( look up "50/50+ casing soil"). I put this soil into six
quart mason jars, and put them into a turkey roaster, on a rack,
and in as much water as it would hold (up to their upper "shoulder").

I plugged the roaster into a Johnson Control A-419, with the probe
inserted into one of the jars of soil, set to cut off at 115 F, and turned 
the unit on. At 115F the unit turned off and the water, still at 212 F
continued to raise the temps into the proper range, where they then
slowly descended together. (you can pasteurize for several hours,
should you need to, this way).

Whew. 

Take care,

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

ok, ill just have to invest in some mason jars..or maybe ill just start casing with 100% vermiculite. vermiculite has absolutly no nutrition to it though..seems like the pan i mixed 1/2 pint colonized sub with equal parts vermiculite, then sprinkled a layer of verm over the top is doing well. 

i dunno...i figure something out. if i can just get a harvest out of this ill be happy. i start training for a job on friday and my girl just got notice in she got a couple grants so we should have some money coming in soon. i can pick up a 12 pack of quart sized mason jars to do some pasturizing in...also like i said im going to be doing everything from here on out in as sterile an enviorment as i can. i was under the impression that once you got nice fully colonized corn jars generally the rest is easy street and there no need to work in a sterile enviorment. i guess i was wrong lol... I will also be adding a little patience to my regiment. i think checking on shit daily is contributing to my failing efforts. 

anyways thanks for sticking around. at least i still have my 11 jars that seem to be doing well.


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## MJG420 (Mar 21, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> ok, ill just have to invest in some mason jars..or maybe ill just start casing with 100% vermiculite. vermiculite has absolutly no nutrition to it though..seems like the pan i mixed 1/2 pint colonized sub with equal parts vermiculite, then sprinkled a layer of verm over the top is doing well.
> 
> i dunno...i figure something out. if i can just get a harvest out of this ill be happy. i start training for a job on friday and my girl just got notice in she got a couple grants so we should have some money coming in soon. i can pick up a 12 pack of quart sized mason jars to do some pasturizing in...also like i said im going to be doing everything from here on out in as sterile an enviorment as i can. i was under the impression that once you got nice fully colonized corn jars generally the rest is easy street and there no need to work in a sterile enviorment. i guess i was wrong lol... I will also be adding a little patience to my regiment. i think checking on shit daily is contributing to my failing efforts.
> 
> anyways thanks for sticking around. at least i still have my 11 jars that seem to be doing well.


Your doing great man, if you came into this expecting not to hit any bumps in the road you a horribly mistaken my friend. . I know I expected some issues myself (not quite to the extreme I encountered) but hoped for the best. Sterilized 4 more jars of corn last night after boiling and letting it sit for 24 hours and I STILL ended up with a pool of water in the bottom of my jars......


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## polyarcturus (Mar 21, 2013)

add a small bit of verm in the jars.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 21, 2013)

3 jars from 03-04-12  2 jars from 03-10-12 

And here's one jar that I want to show you guys  it seems that the dry verm. layer is dropping down on the mycelium is that bad? or is it ok? I pointed with the arrow on how it looks I don't know if you guys can see it.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

dam jars look nice...i dont think the dry verm would hurt anything to be honest...may want to wait for a more experienced and knowledgable opinion though.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 21, 2013)

Yeah the jar looks ok with the dry verm. layer coming down just want to find out if it's bad or not  so we shall wait for some more exp. growers to take a look and see what they'll say.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

my buddy is saying the veils on my mushies are starting to break...is this normal? after only 3 days...they are only about 2 1/2 inches...


----------



## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 21, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> my buddy is saying the veils on my mushies are starting to break...is this normal? after only 3 days...they are only about 2 1/2 inches...


From what I have read when the veils are breaking up that means they're ready right? yeah but 3 days seems kinda quick


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## Javadog (Mar 21, 2013)

This can happen, the shifting of the verm layer, especially as the cakes
age and shrink slightly.

Typically, the shifting of the verm layer can have the effect of sifting
down a contam to the BRF cake. This is usually why too much handling
of the jar is not recommended.

Actually, this does not happen all that often (to me, maybe once, when new).

The reality is that that cake also looks pretty well colonized on top.

I do not think that you will have any problem with that shifted verm.

Good luck,

JD


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 21, 2013)

Java, Thank you sir. I can sleep better now  haha yeah I was just wondering if it's bad or not. I'll keep an eye on that jar and see how it goes. But by looking at things I might be able to birth two of my jars within next two-two and half weeks.


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## Thundercat (Mar 21, 2013)

Like I said the other day matt, once the pins start it can only take days at times. As for the size of them, some strains I think grow smaller fruits, but once the veils start to break they are one step away from opening completely and puking spores all over the place. And by one step I mean hours away.


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## Javadog (Mar 21, 2013)

The size issue kinda evens out I find. You will either get fewer larger fruits,
or many smaller fruits. Genetics definitely plays a role. 

This is why cube strains can behave so differently. (think of the squat little
KSSS vs. the classic Golden Teacher looking fruits)

Take care,

JD


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 21, 2013)

My FC  I think I'll have two of these for my 5 jars, just don't know if I did put to much holes in it..not sure lol what you guys think? will it work? haha


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## Javadog (Mar 21, 2013)

That looks pretty good. I see holes in the lid. Good. Make sure to 
drill the same array on the bottom.

Put 4" of moist perlite in the bottom and you are ready to rock.

Good luck,

JD


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## Thundercat (Mar 21, 2013)

Javadog said:


> The size issue kinda evens out I find. You will either get fewer larger fruits,
> or many smaller fruits. Genetics definitely plays a role.
> 
> This is why cube strains can behave so differently. (think of the squat little
> ...


The KS in my avatar fruited rather small in huge quantities for the first 2-3 flushs, then the last flush only had about 4 or 5 fruits but they were close to the size of my hand.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 21, 2013)

Javadog said:


> That looks pretty good. I see holes in the lid. Good. Make sure to
> drill the same array on the bottom.
> 
> Put 4" of moist perlite in the bottom and you are ready to rock.
> ...


JD holes are on all six sides including the lid and the bottom. 4" of perlite that leaves me with about 8" of head room, is that enough? or I can always put another plastic tote on top of it and make it taller that would make the FC about 24" tall.


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## MJG420 (Mar 21, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> add a small bit of verm in the jars.


Was trying to avoid having to do that, really don't want top PC my jars again.....grrrr


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 21, 2013)

And here are two pictures of Matt's fruits  shit looks sweet!  he said he got 12 grams of fruit, Niceee!


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## Thundercat (Mar 21, 2013)

Congrats man its a great feeling to get that first flush!

Nice I personally like eating them fresh, they have psiliocyn in them when fresh along with the psiliocybin. When they dry it is just the psiliocybin, and the trip is definitely different. Not bad different, just different. If you are gonna have the chance to eat them in the next 2-3 days I'd keep them in the fridge, if not then get em drying.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 21, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Congrats man its a great feeling to get that first flush!
> 
> Nice I personally like eating them fresh, they have psiliocyn in them when fresh along with the psiliocybin. When they dry it is just the psiliocybin, and the trip is definitely different. Not bad different, just different. If you are gonna have the chance to eat them in the next 2-3 days I'd keep them in the fridge, if not then get em drying.


I'll let Matt talk about it, I just got the pictures from him on my phone, so I asked him if I can upload them pictures to the thread.


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## canndo (Mar 21, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> And here are two pictures of Matt's fruits  shit looks sweet! View attachment 2579774View attachment 2579775 he said he got 12 grams of fruit, Niceee!




See? MUCH easier than growing herb.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 21, 2013)

canndo said:


> See? MUCH easier than growing herb.


Mr. Canndo shit!! seems so much quicker!! no all we need from Matt is a "trip report"


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## canndo (Mar 21, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> Well some good and bad news...
> 
> 
> the good news is that the ones that have started fruiting are doubling by the day.
> ...




Guys? study the contamination closely. Note that it looks a bit like a paint chip laying on the surface - just before it begins, roughly from the center, to turn green. Get to know this dense tufty quality and you will often be able to correct Trich outbreaks albeit small ones BEFORE they sporeulate. That is the biggest problem with contaminaion, most can't really know it IS contamination until is spores out and shows color but if you are careful you will often be able to differentiate mold by the structure of the mycelium of he contaminate alone. There is something to learn even in this nasty nasty situation. Tric is the spider mites of mushrooms.


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## canndo (Mar 21, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Mr. Canndo shit!! seems so much quicker!! no all we need from Matt is a "trip report"



Now mind, most people think that it is quicker because they only think of the speed of the fruit - 3 - 5 days but they tend not to take into account all that must happen before. A Spawned straw to friut cycle can take two months if you go from spores to agar, isolate your likely culture, let the isolate colonize the dish, transfer the dish to grain, grain to grain, grain spawn to substrate and then colonized casing.


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## canndo (Mar 21, 2013)

Oh, and there is a contamination primer in the How to grow mushrooms the easy way if you all havn't seen it yet.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

wow guys this thread is poppin!!

yep got my first fruits today... i was there for a couple hours and by the end ended up plucking a few more that hadnt quite broken the veils when i first harvested but had done so by the time i left...

i cant belive how tiny these things are!!!! but i also cant believe how fast they grow once starting to pin. 

as far as the contams go i dont see any more green trich today which is a plus...im hoping it stays at bay for a bit. on the 2 larger FC' s the mycelium has pretty much reached the top of the casing layer so im hoping anytime i see some pinning. 

also on a side not...the CO2 from these things is making his Mj plants grow insanely fast with the temps being inmid 70's and CO2 levels up there its crazy, can we say symbiotic relationship between the green and the black sides?? (maybe the green dosent help the black but the black defo contributes to the green) i 1/2 way thinking of getting edible spores and doing some edible non cubensi mushies in my Mj grow just for the CO2 letoff!!

going to attempt some spore prints today and dry these things out!!

heres a couple harvest pics...small but im just reallt really happy i acomplished this.. 12.2 g right now i think they have dried out a little over the past couple hours..


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## canndo (Mar 21, 2013)

Time to call upon Javadog (java? did you get your name because you like coffee? I'm curious as I am a home roaster).

I find that multispore inoculations tend to flush irregularly and at times yield differing sorts of fruit depending upon the flush. I had always supposed that it was possible that each of the sexualy mature mycelium took turns in flushing. So my first flush might be very small and squat. My second might be far more tall with different color caps.

BUT, I have seen monocultures give off what one would call immature fruit - funny looking, somewhat odd, and the next - after the mycelium "matures" it will produce a robust and perfect second flush, almost as though it were perfecting it's fruiting as it goes.

But I never looked into it. It could be that my monoculture was not actually. It could be that in the situation of competing mycelial dna only one dominates and the others do not get a chance to fruit at all.

I really have no idea and perhaps Javadog can shed some light on this.

My point here is that you have no reason to expect that your second flush will not be larger, and even, in your case more prolific. I have found that small fruit is usually the result of less nutrient but I can't really say for sure. What I DO know is that aborts are, given that your environment is ideal, a function of depth of substrate. In some of the pictures I posted there were, count them... NO aborts, each pin stage mushroom grew to full maturity.




Now look at how tiny those are, yet the second flush yielded far larger mushooms - sorry I don't have pics of those - the one on the left was multispore, the one on the right was a monoculture.


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## canndo (Mar 21, 2013)

lastly, for those who are wondering why these musrhooms are over ripe - they were for my own consumption and appreciation. I typicaly will wait until most of the fruit have opened before I pick any and I will level the filed, not taking them as they mature but all at once - I love to see them open and broaden and when I was doing this I just accepted that even if it resulted in tremendous spore load that gets everywhere. also the air entrainment tends to concentrate the spores into 1/4 inch cakes in places. What you see is NOT how it should be ordinarily done.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

dam i hope my flushes look like that one day...im hopinf once i get into full swing i wont be so hasty to fruit and will have much better mycelium development before going into fruiting.. I am happy with my results right now but i know they could be better.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 21, 2013)

yes i agre matt you did fruit too fast and too early but its a learning exp. you are on the right track. dense colonized mycelium, usualy it good after full colonization to allow the mycelium to condense for a day or 2.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

yeah, and i knew this. I was just hasty as this is my first grow and im impatient. the grows following this one will be much better i assure you. i already have many plans on improving my sterile tek. One of my plans is to build a full sized sterile room (not fully sterile but dam close) that i can sterilize before i work and and sterilize my clothing as well (or wear a poncho like i did with the g2g and sterilize that)

i also plan on setting up a room that will be nice and cleanto fruit and incubate my FC's in after bulk sub is done and casing layer is applied. 

right now im sitting here watching 2 caps sit on tin foil hoping for a decent spore print..and i also plan on buying some more spores soon. i am satisfied with these GT's but i would like a strain a little more potent and a little larger in size..any suggestions are appreciated.


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## growyurown (Mar 21, 2013)

My puerto ricans were very potent with extreme visuals. The most potent alongside b+, gt, and alacabenzi. Just my experience though.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 21, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> yeah, and i knew this. I was just hasty as this is my first grow and im impatient. the grows following this one will be much better i assure you. i already have many plans on improving my sterile tek. One of my plans is to build a full sized sterile room (not fully sterile but dam close) that i can sterilize before i work and and sterilize my clothing as well (or wear a poncho like i did with the g2g and sterilize that)
> 
> i also plan on setting up a room that will be nice and cleanto fruit and incubate my FC's in after bulk sub is done and casing layer is applied.
> 
> right now im sitting here watching 2 caps sit on tin foil hoping for a decent spore print..and i also plan on buying some more spores soon. i am satisfied with these GT's but i would like a strain a little more potent and a little larger in size..any suggestions are appreciated.


spore print inside something sterile! hope you read a few teks im sure you did its pretty easy to get spore prints. 

rooms are fine glove box is much easier. you could save the room to use for more fruiting. a sterile room would be best for fruiting.

bigger fruits? get a clone from the biggest fruit or attempt agar isolation. or let them go on longer and sporolate all over the place :/
the most important factor to good flushes and big fruits is a good substrate. add some more exotic ingredients to you sub, compact you sub as tightly as possible, and also the more depth to the sub the larger the fruits.


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## canndo (Mar 21, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> yeah, and i knew this. I was just hasty as this is my first grow and im impatient. the grows following this one will be much better i assure you. i already have many plans on improving my sterile tek. One of my plans is to build a full sized sterile room (not fully sterile but dam close) that i can sterilize before i work and and sterilize my clothing as well (or wear a poncho like i did with the g2g and sterilize that)
> 
> i also plan on setting up a room that will be nice and cleanto fruit and incubate my FC's in after bulk sub is done and casing layer is applied.
> 
> right now im sitting here watching 2 caps sit on tin foil hoping for a decent spore print..and i also plan on buying some more spores soon. i am satisfied with these GT's but i would like a strain a little more potent and a little larger in size..any suggestions are appreciated.



When you finally understand the unseen, when you are able to estimate the sporeload in your working area and you are capable of chucking those things that don't work I think you will find that sterility will become second nature. Beyond that you may find what I have been preaching - that it isn't your sterility that is important so much as your inoculation teqcnique. 

I have been able to do my tissue culture work in open air with about 30 percent failure, remember that your contamination falls through the air slowly and if you are careful to have your work covered and your movements quick and deliberate but not induce micro currents you can do amazing things.

I only get my hood out now when I am uncertain of what I am doing or if I am taking cuttings from a prolific plantlet.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

i sterilized 2 mason jars and a few pieces of foil, kept the mason jars upside down and quickly removed sterilez foil and placed cap on it then covered in mason jar....thats about all i seen for a tek...

im not really overly concerned with wether they are going to be viable or not right now as this is just to get a feel for it and to check out the prints...probabally just trash them when im done....or save them for a rainy day and see how well it worked out.

they say mycelium will eat through aluminum....does the aluminum give any nutritional value to the mycelium? lol i know its a pretty dumb question but if they eat it is it good or bad for the mycelium?


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## canndo (Mar 21, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> dam i hope my flushes look like that one day...im hopinf once i get into full swing i wont be so hasty to fruit and will have much better mycelium development before going into fruiting.. I am happy with my results right now but i know they could be better.



Excercise a true pinning strategy and you will get that sort of result, orchestration of light, temperature, co2 change and growth will get you there.

I know what everyone says and they are right - you don't need casing, you don't need temperature change - you will get mushrooms anyway but if you DO it the right way then your flushes are huge AND you will understand the mushroom. While Cubes don't need all of those other things - other mushrooms do, this is good practice for those sorts.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

well bob gave the mushies a test drive... did 2g of wet fresh picked and said he was seeing light visuals and feeling good...a good sign i suppose.


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## Mookjong (Mar 21, 2013)

If he's feeling anything off of 2g wet, that is really good sign. See if you can put him into the laughing stage, so you know it's not just the placebo effect. 2g wet isn't much at all. Shrooms are like 70%? water.


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## growyurown (Mar 21, 2013)

I didnt know 2gs wet would do anything...? Would be cool though


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

oh he was fine when i talked to him...he just said he could see some nice enhanced colors...nothing great and definatly not tripping balls...he did start giggling at some chubby dude on TV for a bit lol


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

and yeah i know 2g wet isnt shit but he said he could def feel it..i dont see why he would lie to me.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

i have about 3g sitting on my desk bout to eat lol 

wet of course


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## Mookjong (Mar 21, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> and yeah i know 2g wet isnt shit but he said he could def feel it..i dont see why he would lie to me.


I wasn't trying insinuate that he would lie, I just know how strong the placebo effect can be.

Are you just gonna eat em'? Any special preparations? I'm a big fan of eating with something very acidic and on an empty stomach.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

i didnt mean that as a comeback man...

i have a coup[le big ones sitting in frontof me....im drunk, and stoned....not sure if i want to take that dive....but i really want to take the dive....


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

my plan is to do a light dose first (im a virgin) then this summer take a super heavy dose (like 4 grams dry) and trip sack....then be done with eating them..

im just looking for the experience really...hitting 30 this year fig why not right?


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 21, 2013)

Matt get a video cam. and record your trip  time laps hahaha


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

im bout thinking i should eat these 2 on my desk lol. kinda drunk tho...prob wont feeel shit


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

and stoned...forgot to mention that


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 21, 2013)

Take it maan, don't be a little bitch  and you'll tell us all about tomorrow in the morning


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

maybe it will bring ne back to alive status lol


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## growyurown (Mar 21, 2013)

Drunk or sober, i dont think you will feel shit of 2-3 wet grams.


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## technical dan (Mar 21, 2013)

I think I have seen others say fresh shrooms are 90% water by mass so you can neatly reduce by a factor of 10 (30 grams wet= 3 grams dry) but I have not made it far enough to know if that is accurate.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Mar 21, 2013)

Matt only way to find out buddy


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## polyarcturus (Mar 21, 2013)

fresh is much stronger. if you eat about 9-14g youll have a really good time. personally i would just dry it out eating fresh mushies is a gag fest.


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## Thundercat (Mar 21, 2013)

I found about 85 % water when I dried most of mine, some higher some lower. I've never ate as little as 2g wet, but I'd be very surprised with my body size if I felt anything. I'd eaten as little as 1.5g dried and only got light effects. Typically for my size(6'5" 220lbs) I eat between 3-4gs dry(or about 30-35g wet) for a good night, 2g if I just want to feel it and chill. 

I usually suggest most people eat about 2g dry (20g wet) to get a nice idea what its all about the first time. I've never gave someone 2g there first time and not had them wanting more the next time.

My favorite method for fresh mushrooms is to chop them up and put them on a cheeseburger.

Also prepare some blunts they are the best when tripping for me!


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## polyarcturus (Mar 21, 2013)

always need some smoke while tripping. and a good movie.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

just washed 2 down with some milk lol


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

ahould i get 2 more lol


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

haha i grabbed 4 more


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## Javadog (Mar 21, 2013)

8" of headroom is good for a start. 

When you get monsters hitting the lid, then we'll worry about that ;0)

Those KS are lovely. My KSSS came out with the "little fat bowling pins" form.

Take care,

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

im making mushie velvetta ,,,,lol i almost puked


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## MJG420 (Mar 21, 2013)

Hahaha Matt I so envy you right now, been needing to have a good hard trip for awhile now!!! Checked my jars I PC last night after shaking them a bit this morning and the puddle of water in the bottom seems to have redistributed throughout the jars do I went ahead and inoculated them tonight so here goes round 2!!!!!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

im fucked up but im not halucinating...

have ate almost all of them now ><

all 12g wet

im defo fucked up but not tripping, maybe the mushroom wont allow me to trip.....maybe my brain wont....





everything seems enhanced for sure....maybe i just didnt eat enough...


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 21, 2013)

BTW vermiculite taste like shit lol


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## polyarcturus (Mar 21, 2013)

might hve not ate enough but dont under estimate the mushroom, you can trip thats guaranteed.


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## Mookjong (Mar 21, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> BTW vermiculite taste like shit lol


Give it time bro, put on a movie or do something to get your mind off of it. Let it come to you. Trying to force will only hinder your experience. Take a shot of lemon juice or something very acidic. Tomato juice could help anything acidic. If you have to, vinegar will work, it's actually one of the better choices if you can handle the awful taste.

Eating whole fresh fruits is definitely going to delay the onset. I like mine dried to a crisp, run through a coffee grinder and placed on top of small bowl of spaghetti. Carb loading is good for tripping especially simple carbs like pasta or white rice. The sauce will bring your stomach ph to a better zone for psolicybin absorption. No meat... Empty stomach.. This my ritual and I swear by it.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 21, 2013)

an empty stomach might put you over the edge. lol i always eat before any drug. my theory beside needing more of the chemical, its better to be well fed and dead than dead and not fed.


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## Mookjong (Mar 21, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> an empty stomach might put you over the edge. lol i always eat before any drug. my theory beside needing more of the chemical, its better to be well fed and dead than dead and not fed.


I couldn't disagree more. Just to clarify, what I mean by empty stomach is the you haven't eaten in the last 4-5 hours. Not starved. Generally drugs will be more efficient without food in the stomach.(Not opiates) Look into it, you probably have too much experience to just take my word for it. Look a successful body builders, they eat frequent small meals so they get the most of their proteins and vitamins. Eating large meals will lead to more wasted material. The same is true for mushrooms. If there's "competition" in the stomach there will be more waste. Getting the stomach hot (acidic and rumbly) will eradicate the mush and pull more of the goodies.

Actually I think opiates are also more efficient on an empty stomach, it just makes your sick as hell.

I understand your already understand what I'm saying lol, don't take it the wrong way..


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## Javadog (Mar 21, 2013)

Lemon Juice! Quick!

:0)

...but seriously, google "lemon tek" some time.

12 grams wet ~ 1.2 grams dry.

If you have no tolerance, then 1.2 ought to make at least a light trip.

What you describe sounds more like a typical 0.5 gram trip.

You fruits might just be a tad weak. I have heard of this happening.

Definitely switch strains. Do you have others to work with?

(you can certainly try them again if you are already working with more)

Good luck,

JD


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## polyarcturus (Mar 21, 2013)

Mookjong said:


> I couldn't disagree more. Just to clarify, what I mean by empty stomach is the you haven't eaten in the last 4-5 hours. Not starved. Generally drugs will be more efficient without food in the stomach.(Not opiates) Look into it, you probably have too much experience to just take my word for it. Look a successful body builders, they eat frequent small meals so they get the most of their proteins and vitamins. Eating large meals will lead to more wasted material. The same is true for mushrooms. If there's "competition" in the stomach there will be more waste. Getting the stomach hot (acidic and rumbly) will eradicate the mush and pull more of the goodies.
> 
> Actually I think opiates are also more efficient on an empty stomach, it just makes your sick as hell.
> 
> I understand your already understand what I'm saying lol, don't take it the wrong way..


your right i do understand im just saying when shit goes down, id rather have a full stomach. but i do agree and know what you mean, yes drugs are more effective on an empty stomach.



Javadog said:


> Lemon Juice! Quick!
> 
> :0)
> 
> ...


GT has always been one of the stronger ones in my experience.


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## Mookjong (Mar 21, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> im fucked up but im not halucinating...
> 
> have ate almost all of them now ><
> 
> ...


Leave out the peanut butter next time. It's counter productive since it's slower digesting and has a ph of 6.5-7.0.


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## Mookjong (Mar 22, 2013)

Ya know, I think matt just may be trippin his balls off.. He's usually pretty responsive.


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## Javadog (Mar 22, 2013)

Happy trails!


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## Mookjong (Mar 22, 2013)

I want some shrooomies


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## Javadog (Mar 22, 2013)

Are you in the southwest? :0)

Start some jars!

JD


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## Mookjong (Mar 22, 2013)

Javadog said:


> Are you in the southwest? :0)
> 
> Start some jars!
> 
> JD


I want to really bad. I'm want to try a new strain. Any suggestions? I'm pretty partial to thehawkseye so that's where I'll be ordering from. I'll give it a look to remember the ones I have already tried. I know off hand that Star gazer, Penis envy, mazapetec?, and mexi something I've tried. I don't remember all of them. I guess it doesn't have to be the hawk but I just know I wont have problems from them.


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## Javadog (Mar 22, 2013)

Ryche's PE6 is killer. Crazy strong. Be careful :0)


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## Thundercat (Mar 22, 2013)

Nice I bet he's tripping now least a little bit which will be good for a first time.

Mook of the few strains I've tried and I've seen for sale I gotta suggest giving the Koh Samoi a try, I loved them and got fantastic flushs IMP.


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## Mookjong (Mar 22, 2013)

Javadog said:


> Ryche's PE6 is killer. Crazy strong. Be careful :0)


I wish he would throw up some pics of the hybrids. His site says pics will be up soon. It's been what 3 years now? wtf!

I haven't tried anything he doesn't have a picture of. Idk I guess I need a line of bull shit to be sold lol. So ya the other strains I've tried where the creepers and ecuadors. The creepers were just cool. You get like 10 big ass fucking mushrooms a flush, IIrc I didn't get a second flush on that one. I don't if it was me or the strain... The mazapetec snuck up on me once and rocked my world for a solid 8 hours off of <2gs... I wrote a trip report on it, I kinda think I may had a slight Maoi somewhere down the line or something. The experience was comparable to a hard acid trip. 

I know I wanna stick to cubensis for a little while just get everything back. I haven't grown any since the summer of 2010. Then I'll be trying my hand at a mean copelandia. I don't know I may just jump in for the pan cyan. I've read those with experience can really appreciate their strength. I've also read some horrible reports on em so IONo...

You ever do the copelandia or pan cyan w/e...?


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## Mookjong (Mar 22, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Nice I bet he's tripping now least a little bit which will be good for a first time.
> 
> Mook of the few strains I've tried and I've seen for sale I gotta suggest giving the Koh Samoi a try, I loved them and got fantastic flushs IMP.


"Out of stock" what's IMP?


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## Thundercat (Mar 22, 2013)

lol that was supposed to be IMO in my opinion. hehe Maybe try http://www.spores101.co/Koh-Samui-Psilocybe-Cubensis-print_p_99.html or perhaps http://www.spores101.co/Koh-Samui-Psilocybe-Cubensis-_p_34.html . THese also rocked my world!!!http://www.spores101.co/Blue-Meanie-Psilocybe-Cubensis--_p_19.html


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## Mookjong (Mar 22, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> lol that was supposed to be IMO in my opinion. hehe Maybe try http://www.spores101.co/Koh-Samui-Psilocybe-Cubensis-print_p_99.html or perhaps http://www.spores101.co/Koh-Samui-Psilocybe-Cubensis-_p_34.html . THese also rocked my world!!!http://www.spores101.co/Blue-Meanie-Psilocybe-Cubensis--_p_19.html


When it comes to stuff like this, I tend to stick to what has already worked in the past. They could very well have quality genetics but, thehawk has been good to me. Some of his work on shroomery has really helped me so I kinda feel I should be a loyal customer. I feel like a sales rep lol. I'll check those out tho since you took the time to share. So you have successfully ordered and grown spores from these recommendations?


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## Thundercat (Mar 22, 2013)

I've wanted to order from him before just hadn't gotten around to it. Its good to hear such a good review of his gear. I can't remember does he have prints or just syringes?


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## Thundercat (Mar 22, 2013)

Lol stupid question I just hopped over to the site.


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## Mookjong (Mar 22, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> I've wanted to order from him before just hadn't gotten around to it. Its good to hear such a good review of his gear. I can't remember does he have prints or just syringes?


Depends on the strain.
I wish he had some koh, after reading that brief passage on spores101 they sound pretty interesting. I like things that go fast!! I may have to send an email regarding the time frame of his stock replenishment. I'm really interested in that KOH.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 22, 2013)

haha yeah he probably tripping.

ive tried my fair share of specie

the blue meanies are supposed to rock in both potency and productions lot of small potent mushrooms, i have no exp with em but a friend form tx said they rock his world.

i want to get some cyans myslef but right now ive looking at P. alleni and thai lippa yao? havent tried alleni but the thai.  

or some redboys they are damn potent too.


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## Mookjong (Mar 22, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> haha yeah he probably tripping.
> 
> ive tried my fair share of specie
> 
> ...


Which blue meanie? apparently there is a cubensis and pan cyan.

Redboys? Got a link?


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## polyarcturus (Mar 22, 2013)

blue meanie cube didnt know there was a cyan called that.

and redboys no link i dont know which if any vendors sell it. the site im normally on has a pretty big spore trading ring(so it might be exclusive) and from what ive seen and read about it its a grade A strain.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 22, 2013)

ok so i didnt really trip my balls off lol...they got me verry body high but no visuals..

sat down and watched some TV and fell asleep lol.....what a waste..

at least it gave me a good idea what to expect from around 1g....next time will be 4g+ dry so i can actually trip. i have a good tolerance for most drugs and im not one for making up stories so if im not tripping im not going to say i am. definatly a good body buzz though and i feel pretty good this am for being up untill around 2 ish and back up around 6 ish ...

all in all them things taste like shit...for sure...the peanut buteer worked great, sucks someone was saying its counterproductive because it really helps you to be able to chew em up good and not vomit...


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 22, 2013)

i ate my entire first flush HAHAHA


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## Mookjong (Mar 22, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> i ate my entire first flush HAHAHA


Your not fucked up right now? No skin pulling, electric pulses in your hearing?

I used to make pb&j to help with the taste gosh like 5 years ago. I found that it dampened the trip. The spaghetti thing is my favorite way man, ill keep bringin' it til' you try it lol. The lemon tek is good too, but the spaghetti takes to another level. Tomato sauce is only 1 point less acidic than lemon juice, and the carbs from the pasta will give you extra brain power. I kinda feel like those shrooms where a little premature, I know they say once they veil breaks but I always let mine completely tear just before the point of them being fully opened. Not sure if it really matters. 

I'm kinda bummed you didn't have a stronger experience. You've done such a great job so far. Don't get cocky in the future, when those things are dry to a crisp and you got an 1/8 in stomach, shit gets real.


----------



## Mookjong (Mar 22, 2013)

Oh and they don't taste near as bad dry, when they're wet it really brutal. Like hard to swallow right?


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## Mookjong (Mar 22, 2013)

Oh wow I just stumbled onto another guy named mook doing something very similar. He takes a whole grapefruit, cuts it in half, guts it, takes the pulp and puts it on a rice cake tops it with his ground mush... Now this I gotta try!! Grapefruits have a similar ph to lemons, and the rice cake has the simple carbs to boost brain function. Cheeyaaaaaa!!!


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 22, 2013)

yeah man...the first 4 went down fine...the rest...not so good lol


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 22, 2013)

and the funny thing is we ate pasta and red sauce for dinner last night lol


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## Mookjong (Mar 22, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> and the funny thing is we ate pasta and red sauce for dinner last night lol


for real? oh wells. Man I forgot to sleep last night... Derp 

I've been looking into my next run. Trying to figure out if I'm brave enough to try my hand at pan cyans. I see alot of mixed reviews. Some people love em, some people are scared of em. From the trip reports I've read tonight, LSD ain't got shit on these lil' devils.


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 22, 2013)

ill have to look into them as well then lol


----------



## technical dan (Mar 22, 2013)

Jumpin right in huh matt. 
I cant wait to eat some fresh ones ..... I dont mind the taste of dry shrooms. 
Java I happen to be in the SW.


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## Javadog (Mar 22, 2013)

Guys, let me direct your attention at an option that never occurred to
me until I had piles more fruits than I needed: TEA

Shroom tea is a wonderful option. Much less stomach upset. Fast absorption.

Take care,

JD


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## canndo (Mar 22, 2013)

technical dan said:


> I think I have seen others say fresh shrooms are 90% water by mass so you can neatly reduce by a factor of 10 (30 grams wet= 3 grams dry) but I have not made it far enough to know if that is accurate.



more like 92 percent, however, when you dry the mushroom one of the two (or three) psychoactives is depleated. So in essence the fresh ones are a bit stonger and for me anyway, they have a different character, more bright, airy, exuberant.
It is entirely possible that a sensitive person could feel three grams fresh. Not much but I know I can sense the change.


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## canndo (Mar 22, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> an empty stomach might put you over the edge. lol i always eat before any drug. my theory beside needing more of the chemical, its better to be well fed and dead than dead and not fed.




And I always fast. For anything, I don't want the drug diluted by food, I want it all in my system NOW. There are some drugs that will give me a distinct rush if I eat them on an empty stomach wherupon if I eat them on a full one, they just sort of slide into place. 

And


I like rushes.


The only drug I will ONLY take on a full stomach is the nicotine from a strong cigar - if I don't then I am doomed to vomit whatever I might have had there, or at least get real real green in the face.


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## canndo (Mar 22, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> i ate my entire first flush HAHAHA



Won't be long before that would be a very unwise act.


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## Javadog (Mar 22, 2013)

canndo said:


> It is entirely possible that a sensitive person could feel three grams fresh. Not much but I know I can sense the change.


Definitely. Even just a sense that things are subtly different, images a bit sharper.

I wanted to share this somewhere, and this looks to be a good spot.

This video makes some interesting arguments, but the cool old dude (Gerld Heard it turns out)
at 1:50 really tries to nail it down for the uninitiated.

[video=youtube;3shL389L2EY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=3shL389L2EY[/video]

Suddenly you notice that there aren't these separations,

that we are not on a separate island shouting across to somebody else

and trying to hear what they are saying and misunderstanding.

You know. You used the word yourself. Empathy.

This thing's flowing underneath. We're parts of a single continent.

*It meets underneath the water.

And with that goes such delight.

The sober certainty of waking bliss.* 

(all apologies for anyone I have already thrown this at...I just liked it ;0)

Take care,

JD


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## Thundercat (Mar 22, 2013)

Cool video.

Matt I'm glad you had a good night, I'm sure you got a nice feel for the feel and change you get from them. Like Canndo said I like them fresh for the trip aspects more then dry as well. 

After my first trip about 3g I can say I honestly felt like my "third eye" had been opened. The more trips I've had over the years the stronger I feel that the mushrooms open a bridge in our minds and souls to our unconcious. I have felt much more in touch with myself ever since, and with the world we live in.


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## canndo (Mar 22, 2013)

I don't know what you are trying to say here Javadog. The point is that it is not in the best interest for the state for the individuals of that state to be enabled to question the basis of their role in that state. That promotes disharmony and ultimately rebellion. Anyone who thinks too clearly about anything endanger's the state but individuals are only a small threat, extend this enlightenment to the masses and bad things can happen to the orgaizaton that is the state. 

Of course there is damage to the individual in the course of this enlightenment and that damage is what the state points to as the reason these enlightening drugs should be kept out of the hands of the population.

the tell there is the state's near absolute refusal to allow studies to progress using these substances. In reality, in the nature of the world and the universe there is NO substance on earth that has "no redeeming value". Everything has some value to some situation and yet the government has seen fit to actually corral a group of chemicals and place this very label upon them. "this substance has no importance to any thing or any one in any situation ever - period". The most dangerous toxin in the world, one that surely has no value is the toxin produced by _ Clostridium botulinum and by rights it should be highly controlled if danger to the public really is a concern - yet even this stuff has found a use - injecting it into women's faces.

That tells me that the danger has nothing to do with health but everything to do with enlightenement._


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## Killua (Mar 22, 2013)

This is my first time growing as well, It didn't go as smoothly as i thought lol.. 
I decided to go with polyfil lids and use popcorn. This is the tek I am going to follow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11916595/fpart/1/vc/1.

I boiled the popcorn till some of the kernels split then let dry for 3 hours; put them in the PC wrapped in foil at 15psi for 1 hour. I took them out of the PC and every jar had a small pool of water, I am assuming it is from only letting them dry for 3hours or I didnt wrap the foil tight enough?? I ignored the pools of water and waited till the next morning to innoc them; I ended up inoculating every jar twice because I realized I only put 1cc in all 12 jars lol. The temp of the room for the first ten days was between 68-70 degrees and then picked up to 76 and is when I started to see growth. In those ten days the pools of water got smaller and as of now none of my quart jars have any contamination. I didnt turn on the a/c and just let the natural temp do its thing. I think I got extremely lucky and cant wait till jars are fully colonized.
I have learned a lot from this thread and hope it encourages more people to give it a try.


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## Mookjong (Mar 22, 2013)

Killua said:


> This is my first time growing as well, It didn't go as smoothly as i thought lol..
> I decided to go with polyfil lids and use popcorn. This is the tek I am going to follow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11916595/fpart/1/vc/1.
> 
> I boiled the popcorn till some of the kernels split then let dry for 3 hours; put them in the PC wrapped in foil at 15psi for 1 hour. I took them out of the PC and every jar had a small pool of water, I am assuming it is from only letting them dry for 3hours or I didn&#8217;t wrap the foil tight enough?? I ignored the pools of water and waited till the next morning to innoc them; I ended up inoculating every jar twice because I realized I only put 1cc in all 12 jars lol. The temp of the room for the first ten days was between 68-70 degrees and then picked up to 76 and is when I started to see growth. In those ten days the pools of water got smaller and as of now none of my quart jars have any contamination. I didn&#8217;t turn on the a/c and just let the natural temp do its thing. I think I got extremely lucky and can&#8217;t wait till jars are fully colonized.
> I have learned a lot from this thread and hope it encourages more people to give it a try.


Great place to start man, very similar to what I do. This has been one of the better threads on RIU. The op "matt" is great at accepting advice while finding his path which makes this a very interesting read. Everyone has the common goal of matts success which is freaking awesome. This is my happy place. Good people here!!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 22, 2013)

yeah i do like how this thread is coming along myself...definatly no hostility and no..my way or highway attitudes...verry open minded people and thats what makes for a good thread.


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## canndo (Mar 22, 2013)

Mookjong said:


> Great place to start man, very similar to what I do. This has been one of the better threads on RIU. The op "matt" is great at accepting advice while finding his path which makes this a very interesting read. Everyone has the common goal of matts success which is freaking awesome. This is my happy place. Good people here!!


NO, Disneyland it the happy place, in fact it is THE happiest place on earth.


----------



## canndo (Mar 22, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> yeah i do like how this thread is coming along myself...definatly no hostility and no..my way or highway attitudes...verry open minded people and thats what makes for a good thread.



That is because I am not posting much here.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 22, 2013)

canndo said:


> That is because I am not posting much here.


according to ganjapussy this would be true. lmao.


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 22, 2013)

canndo said:


> That is because I am not posting much here.


you have good suggestions and you have your opinions on thigs which you belive in strongly....nothing wrong with that man...you dont start name calling and acting a fool when people dissagree with you. 

your fine man...im glad you have been along for this adventure as you have offered alot of sound advice. you convinced me to go with grain and im haveing amazing results with incubating and G2G transfers....now i need to get the second, third and fourth stage down HAHA..

more green mold popping up in my pans...not verry happy but what are ya gonna do...this first runmay end up being a washout.  

made my spore prints...they came out well i think...verry small because the caps are small but nice and dark, wrapped em up in foil and they are ready to possibly be used later on.


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## Javadog (Mar 22, 2013)

I agree. I saw only good stuff.

JD


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## canndo (Mar 22, 2013)

It is friday, I have my 1926 padron toro, I have my 12 year old scotch and I am teasing. except for the PF tek is the devil's tool part.


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## Javadog (Mar 22, 2013)

What PF Tek was was a revolution...circa 1990 or so. :0)

Amateur mycology has surpassed it. 

It is still warmly thought of, and Billy McPherson AKA Psylocybe Fanaticus
passed recently and was very warmly remembered.

Take care,

JD


----------



## polyarcturus (Mar 22, 2013)

PF tek is awesome if your growing in a contaminated environment, or want spore prints from invitro fruits tho.


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## canndo (Mar 22, 2013)

Javadog said:


> What PF Tek was was a revolution...circa 1990 or so. :0)
> 
> Amateur mycology has surpassed it.
> 
> ...



RIP B. McPherson, a genius, no doubt at all, he brought insight to millions and MADE millions except for that little problem with the law.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 23, 2013)

gave the wife 0.7g dry mushie...she ate them once 9 years ago...had her eat the with peanut butter and follow up with a shot of lemon juice..puttng the kid to bed lets see how she does.

i dont want my experience to hiinder the overall "potency" of the shrooms because i am a very high tolerance person...so far Bob said he gets decent results on .2 g (lightweight) but i think i need at least 2+ to give a actual review...


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 23, 2013)

and on a side note i have some baby bella mushrooms sitting on tinfoil awaiting a spore print...then i will try my hand at growing legal mushies at home...i think my kids will love it


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## Mookjong (Mar 23, 2013)

So where are you at on your GT project?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 23, 2013)

im not sure. fucking contams are taking over my casing...

this run is prob a wipe...next bet oyur ass shit will be done right


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 23, 2013)

my best results are from a bulk mix with verm and nno casing


still trying to work it out


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## Mookjong (Mar 23, 2013)

So we're looking forward to "My second class with the Golden Teacher"?

Hopefully by then I will be settled in my new place and be there right with ya. I'm just carefully trying to select some new strains and I'll be ready. Oh I and I gotta find some damn whole rye grain, my supplier as been out for a long while. Other than that, I'm already ready already...


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 23, 2013)

need a link for some fear and loating in las vegas...any 1 got one?


----------



## Mookjong (Mar 23, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> need a link for some fear and loating in las vegas...any 1 got one?


Well it's an ez torrent, I know you tube has "Where the buffalo roam"


----------



## MJG420 (Mar 23, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> need a link for some fear and loating in las vegas...any 1 got one?


Omg I have wanted to trip and watch that movie for YEARS!!!!


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 23, 2013)

cant find a decent link


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## Javadog (Mar 23, 2013)

This is bat country!


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## Thundercat (Mar 23, 2013)

The first time I ever ate shrooms we watched fear and loathing. It also happened to be my first time seeing that movie. I felt like I was in the movie for most of it, it was great. I've watched it tripping several times since, and it always is a similar trip I think because how intense the movie is. 

Matt I think once you get things worked out and you have more your gonna be very pleased with between 2-3g. That will really give you the feeling for the mushrooms, and should be more then just a body effect.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 23, 2013)

man she is bitchy 


fuck...id like to strangle a bitch at this point


----------



## Thundercat (Mar 23, 2013)

Whos bitchy the wife? 

Good luck with that, is she feeling that dose?


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## polyarcturus (Mar 23, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> man she is bitchy
> 
> 
> fuck...id like to strangle a bitch at this point


tell me about it. lmao


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 24, 2013)

so i guess i ruined her night last night...go figure...fuck her...i should have just eaten the mushrooms myself and told her to piss off.

i have some baby bella mushrooms sitting on foil releasing spores....will be trying to get them to grow, same tek as im using for the GT's but these ill be fruiting at home so my kids can check it out.


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## Javadog (Mar 24, 2013)

Portabella is an Agaricus. I have gotten these to fruit, but they are
not the easiest edible to start with. Not to knock the effort. The issue
is usually that this species needs a living casing soil to stimulate fruiting.

...but you are already pasteurizing materials, so go for it.

I do recommend that anyone wanting to start cultivating edibles consider
the genus Pleurotis. This is the Oyster mushroom family. This group of
species are extremely aggressive colonizers, and they fruit pretty much
whatever you do to them.

Shitake are also very doable, but you would want to buy some filter
patch sacks to grow that species.

Have fun!

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 24, 2013)

i thought about growing the shitake but dont you need to grow them in logs?


----------



## Javadog (Mar 24, 2013)

Nope.

That was how it was traditionally done.

The Japanese farmers even figured out that flailing the logs 
stimulated fruiting.

Now we just spank our spawn sacks. (sounds nasty ;0)

I will dig up a photo.

What we use are .2 micron filter patch sacks.

You can get a few for $1 a pop. I got 1000 and paid $0.28 per
after shipping. :0)

Take care,

JD
P.S. Here are some blocks in the process of colonizing the blocks:

Here is a block fruiting:


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 24, 2013)

i think i would be better off doing the logs outside though. i dunno really what im doing to be honest, would like to just do something easy and legal...maybe ill look into the oyster mushrooms. we have a local farmers market here and i would ultimatly like to sell some of the edibles there.


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## Javadog (Mar 24, 2013)

Logs are easy enough. ...we just do not have much logging
where I am. 

You can inoculate small wooden dowels, and then hammer them
into holes drilled in the logs. You can also make sawdust spawn 
and pack it into the holes like putty.

Good luck,

JD


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## technical dan (Mar 24, 2013)

I think I'm going try some oysters too and play around with them like put colonized substrate into potted plants I really like poly's pics where there are cubes coming up next to chives. But im not sure how well this would work here since the RH is generally 35%. Maybe I could get some mosses with domes in buckets outside or well shit maybe just dome the top of the container or around the container of raise the RH.


----------



## Javadog (Mar 24, 2013)

I hear you about the low RH. I live in a coastal desert.

...but the RH is much better in a well watered pot, nestled
among herbs.

Take care,

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 24, 2013)

i live in an area where logging is verry abundant...so finding some fresh logs would be easy..what kind of logs would i be looking for? oak/hardwood or would decent pine logs work? lots of birch up here too. also debarked or not?

i guess i can read a bit too. enjoy discussing it more than reading though lol


----------



## Javadog (Mar 24, 2013)

Yeah, I could just start spewing Shroomery URLs at you.

I am a Mod there, and whether or not I am biased, I can tell you
that it is a great place to learn mycology. I am also a Mod at myco-tek.org.

I do not mind chatting this stuff out. 

I will also type out a novella if I think that the audience wants and needs one.

Oak is probably the best wood we have for Shitake.

They grow well on most hardwoods....pine is to be avoided (though if aged and
supplemented properly it can work too).

Good luck,

JD


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## polyarcturus (Mar 24, 2013)

Javadog said:


> hardwoods....


thats what she said!


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 24, 2013)

Javadog said:


> Yeah, I could just start spewing Shroomery URLs at you.
> 
> I am a Mod there, and whether or not I am biased, I can tell you
> that it is a great place to learn mycology. I am also a Mod at myco-tek.org.
> ...


yeah i mean i dont mind researching but sometimes its just fun to indulge in convorsations with people rather than read a ton of age old threads..



polyarcturus said:


> thats what she said!


tee heeee


----------



## technical dan (Mar 25, 2013)

I got an oyster from the store and I just pulled an agar jar out of the fridge how long does it need to warm up before I can transfer tissue on to it? I have seen people say 24 hours but can it just be 8 hours or enough to bring it up to ambient temp? I should have been thinking about this and pulled it out last night when I started soaking popcorn to do a couple more jars.


----------



## Javadog (Mar 25, 2013)

Once the agar is at a temp that will not damage the mycelium I think
that a transfer can be done. ...grow will be slow until the dish gets to
room temp. 

Make sure to take the transfer tissue from inside the fruit. Rip it open
and take a transfer from the open area.

There are optimal locations for taking transfers, but Pleurotis is strong.
You should rock.

Good luck,

JD


----------



## technical dan (Mar 25, 2013)

kk thanks. Itll go in the incubator after the tissue transfer. Yep yep. I also put (a small amount of) GT spore solution on agar a couple/ few (?) days ago and while I did that I left one agar jar open in my glove box to try and get an idea of how sterile my box/ procedure is and/or to see what spores/ species are in my environment. I haven't seen growth on either yet there are some little dark spots on the one I injected I think most of that is from the needle after flame sterilizing.... I had been thinking of not mentioning it until I saw growth to make sure I'm doing something right with it.


----------



## polyarcturus (Mar 25, 2013)

you dont have to warm the agar to transfer to it. its just the mycelium wont grow till its room temp. i personally wouldn't work with a cold jar for the simple reason that the glass will cool the air causing some contams to get sucked in.


----------



## Thundercat (Mar 25, 2013)

So I talked to homestead books today and was very pleased with what I learned. The only kit you can buy online is the basic kit, which is 130 and has 3 pounds of material with it. They offer a "refill" kit however if you call them for only 95 which has 5 lbs of material in them! So any way they still have them and I may be ordering some 5lb kits very soon. I got great flushs of the 3lb last time so I'm sure 5 will be even better!


----------



## Javadog (Mar 25, 2013)

$130 ?!?!? Link please.


----------



## Thundercat (Mar 25, 2013)

http://www.homesteadbook.com/store/ez-gro-mushroomkit-p-141.html

I grew one of these kits out years ago with blue meanies. It was awesome, very simple the whole first half is completely sealed and contam free. From my understanding if you get a contam in it, they will replace it for free as well. After the rye berries are colonized you add this to the pasturized manure and close it back up and let it do its thing. I mean you know how its all done, this is just what the kit entailed. I got 3-4 good flushes off the 3 lb bag I ran, and that was kept in a storage shed with terrible temps. If you call them to place teh order or do it by mail you can ask for the refill kit which is the larger one for less money. Its cheaper because the main kit includes a dvd with instructions and all stuff like that. The lady told me I could get a max of 4 refill kits for $30 which is actually 90 a piece instead of 95. This would give me 20 lbs of substrate to work with which I think might out produce my previous trays, and even if it didn't I wouldn't have to have the same level of setup to achieve similar results.


----------



## Javadog (Mar 25, 2013)

This is my third try at replying to this one. (you had a great 
time with one, and I am happy for that)

These kits are something that I would never let a myco-friend 
waste his/her money on.

Fuck, but unless I am mistaken, their "Growing Chamber" amounts
to a filter patch sack! Try $1!

Ugh. Better to buy the X-Ray specs from out of a comic book.

Sorry to be blunt.

JD


----------



## Thundercat (Mar 26, 2013)

Not sure why so negative about it them man. The filter patch bags are a very common item from what I've seen. The fact that you have no need to a PC, and have almost no sterile work in the first place is huge. The yields were fantastic from what I remember, and that was with terrible conditions, now that I know what I'm doing I an posative it will be better. The substrate I believe is manure which I thought was perhaps part of the reason for the good results. Its also gaurenteed against contams which is huge. I have the knowledge to do a more advanced grow, but no decent space where I currently am. This is going to allow me to get some nice harvests with minimal effort when I couldn't easily otherwise. No they are not cheap, and its not supposed to be any thing fancy. That is part of the idea is its simple enough anyone can do it almost anywhere, and it is fairly discreet brown box shipping. I've seen other grow kits which are far more advanced with humidity pumps and all kinds of stuff, but they are all pricey and if you are gonna go that far I say DIY thus what I did before. This is all about simple, and getting a nice harvest, I'm not expecting to get lbs, but I'll get ozs and that will keep me happy for another couple years.


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 26, 2013)

seems really expensive though. you can buy a 25 lb bag of rye berries for $15.50

http://www.amazon.com/Rye-Berries-25-Bag-Each/dp/B000RHVIQG/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1364294939&sr=8-4&keywords=rye+berries

filter patch bags for 75¢ each 

http://www.amazon.com/Mushroom-Grow-Substrate-Autoclavable-Presealable/dp/B004NOV2E2/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1364295044&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=filter+patch+bags

so say you wanted to do 5 lb bags you could do 5 bags for roughly 20 bucks..that would leave 70 bucks savings...

with that 70 bucks you could probabally purchase a decent sized PC and some spore syringes...

if you buy a nice PC then your expenses will be cut drastically on your next order. 

and if im reading correctly my calculations are based off 1 5lb refill so to buy 4 of them you could really get a nice setup with a really nice PC 

my 2¢


----------



## Javadog (Mar 26, 2013)

I am sorry to slam them so, and if they made you happy, that is that.

...but Retired pretty much nailed it.

I would lust like to see you get full value for your $'s.

That is a great Rye berry price BTW. 

On the topic of grains, let me suggest a great outfit that services most
of the Western US: Azure Standard.

This outfit uses a Co-Op model where people gather into groups, make
their orders, and then pick up their goods *from a single drop point* 
(usually the "ring-leaders" home). NO SHIPPING COSTS. When you 
are buying 150 lbs of Rye, Wheat, and Milo, then this matters.

Take care,

JD


----------



## Thundercat (Mar 26, 2013)

You guys seem to think I'm not aware of how cheap is can be and havn't been down this road before. I have a PC, I have my incubator totes still, I have my fruiting chamber totes still I have spores, I have syringes, and I even have jars. The thing I don't have is space, not even a closet or anything practical to use for this currently nor do I want to spend the time fcking with preparing bags as that I don't have experiance with. This will cost me more up front for sure I would never deny that or suggest this method to someone trying to do this on this on a budget. This kit is perfect for those who are limited on space, and don't desire to do the sterile work and PCing like I said before. Its a trade off higher cost, for simplicity, no mess, and a gaurentee. Back when I had my mushy grow set up I bought about 6 3lb bags of rye, and shot them up and all failed. I personally blamed the spores, but I don't know what the problem was. With this kit I don't have to guess anything or really do anything. Open the bag drop in the spores, shake and stick it in the corner .....done for a month or so till it colonizes. Then dump into the substrate shake and stick it in the corner for another month. Then expose to some light and lower temps and fruit that bitch. I'm gonna be wrapping the bottom of the block in foil I think to try to prevent side fruiting. It wasn't a big issue last time but seems like a good idea. 

Its also not just rye berries either. The bag with the berries in it has the spores, there is also a the 5 lb bag of manure which I couldn't find a 5lb bag but 5 1lb bags were about $22. Not that it can't be found cheaper that was just at the bottom of one of your links. Also not that $22 accounts for the rest of the price, but it is one more cost.

Anyway I'm not trying to change your guys minds, just explaining I don't think I'm crazy. I'm just willing to spend the extra money right now rather then having the extra work, hassles and time involved in running a regular setup. Time being a big one of those, as I used to spend many many hours preparing everything, pcing, and steralizing when I was gonna make a run of jars, making trays or whatever step really. If I had a place I would have set up my original operation along time ago, but since I don't I'm just gonna be happy to have some shroomers growing again.


----------



## Javadog (Mar 26, 2013)

My reaction was actually relatively mild compared that the
reaction that those kits typically get at the Mush Cult sites.

..but you are right, I was shooting in the dark. All apologies.

Good luck!

JD


----------



## technical dan (Mar 26, 2013)

ok update time the first cube jar (one I pulled out of the inc.) is slowly growing after shaking/ rolling the jar the other day. And then Jar two is going:
 second pic was taken today and the first was taken on the 22nd. I think I'm going to let that spot (only one I've seen) grow a bit more and then roll/ shake the jar. The light white on the right is because of the camera and lighting it is not actually in the jar.

I have not seen anything in any of the P. galindoi jars (two sets of inoculations and 6 pint jars total). Today I saw some white growth on various areas of the agar jar with GT . Nothing I can see on the glove box agar jar and now I have some oyster tissue on an agar jar. I have 3 pints with popcorn ready to be PC'ed going to do the first 2 tonight (hopefully). Two have silicone port lids and the third does not so the two will be shot up with GT and hopefully things will continue happening on the agar so I can transfer whatever (GT or oyster) happens to be ready into the third jar sometime soon. 

I also had a complication with the tissue transfer. I had a flash fire in my glove box, which luckily stayed sealed so the fire ran out of oxygen and went out in under a second without harming myself or anything else (except the glove box lid). I was lazy and impatient and had started spraying the inside of the box of bleach solution did not have enough left so after letting it sit I sprayed my gloves and jar with iso alcohol ( up to then I had only used as little as needed to sanitize my gloves). So I had built up a high enough concentration of vapors to ignite when I used the lighter to flame sterilize my exacto. I had considered the possibility of a fire due to iso before this happened so as soon as the lighter lit and the flame was 3 times larger than it should be I knew what was happening and was pulling my hands out. After taking it outside and trying to open the box I saw the fire sealed the lid on (melting/ welding it in some places) everything was still in there so I went ahead and did the transfer to agar. I need to replace the lid for my box after having to pry and break bits of it off to remove it, but other than that everything is ok. 

So my impatience with not wanting to have to open, spray, and sit my box again lead to a lapse in judgement which bit me in the ass less than 5 minutes later. Hopefully this will serve as a reminder to everybody as it will to me to do all the steps and think shit through.


----------



## canndo (Mar 26, 2013)

Javadog said:


> My reaction was actually relatively mild compared that the
> reaction that those kits typically get at the Mush Cult sites.
> 
> ..but you are right, I was shooting in the dark. All apologies.
> ...



SEE? See? it's not easy being open minded.  I don't have much of a problem with most kits that I have seen. If you don't have a PC, and you want a bag or two, and you can spare the expense, I don't see a real problem with purchasing pre-sterilized bags (though i usually fill my bags MUCH more than any of them.


----------



## Javadog (Mar 26, 2013)

:0)

Hey TD,

Is there a white reflection on the front right side of the jar in
the second of your photos?

JD


----------



## polyarcturus (Mar 26, 2013)

Javadog said:


> :0)
> 
> Hey TD,
> 
> ...


thats mycelium, i had to look closer too.


----------



## Javadog (Mar 26, 2013)

If it is, then it might be a cobweb infection...it is just too whispy
and grey....not the dense white growth that I see elsewhere in 
that jar.

I cannot be certain, but thought to ask.

JD


----------



## polyarcturus (Mar 26, 2013)

Javadog said:


> If it is, then it might be a cobweb infection...it is just too whispy
> and grey....not the dense white growth that I see elsewhere in
> that jar.
> 
> ...


ahh i see what you mean, no thats refelction, looks like since the jar is sitting off center of his camera's light, it only flashed that side.so what im saying is when he took the pic, he rotated camera clockwise 90 degrees and camera flash was sitting on right.


----------



## Javadog (Mar 26, 2013)

Yeah...I suspected that.

Carry on.

:0)

JD


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## technical dan (Mar 26, 2013)

yeah polys got it sorry didnt look at that pic carefully before I posted it. The solid white is the only growth in the jar the lighter white on the right is only present in the picture and is the result of a camera issue/ poor camera use.


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 26, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> You guys seem to think I'm not aware of how cheap is can be and havn't been down this road before. I have a PC, I have my incubator totes still, I have my fruiting chamber totes still I have spores, I have syringes, and I even have jars. The thing I don't have is space, not even a closet or anything practical to use for this currently nor do I want to spend the time fcking with preparing bags as that I don't have experiance with. This will cost me more up front for sure I would never deny that or suggest this method to someone trying to do this on this on a budget. This kit is perfect for those who are limited on space, and don't desire to do the sterile work and PCing like I said before. Its a trade off higher cost, for simplicity, no mess, and a gaurentee. Back when I had my mushy grow set up I bought about 6 3lb bags of rye, and shot them up and all failed. I personally blamed the spores, but I don't know what the problem was. With this kit I don't have to guess anything or really do anything. Open the bag drop in the spores, shake and stick it in the corner .....done for a month or so till it colonizes. Then dump into the substrate shake and stick it in the corner for another month. Then expose to some light and lower temps and fruit that bitch. I'm gonna be wrapping the bottom of the block in foil I think to try to prevent side fruiting. It wasn't a big issue last time but seems like a good idea.
> 
> Its also not just rye berries either. The bag with the berries in it has the spores, there is also a the 5 lb bag of manure which I couldn't find a 5lb bag but 5 1lb bags were about $22. Not that it can't be found cheaper that was just at the bottom of one of your links. Also not that $22 accounts for the rest of the price, but it is one more cost.
> 
> Anyway I'm not trying to change your guys minds, just explaining I don't think I'm crazy. I'm just willing to spend the extra money right now rather then having the extra work, hassles and time involved in running a regular setup. Time being a big one of those, as I used to spend many many hours preparing everything, pcing, and steralizing when I was gonna make a run of jars, making trays or whatever step really. If I had a place I would have set up my original operation along time ago, but since I don't I'm just gonna be happy to have some shroomers growing again.


i apologize as well if i came off the wrong way...just figured you could do it cheaper and still maintain your space limitations. I was unaware you wanted to do it because of the gaurentee and because you didnt want to fuck with the sterile process. like others had said if thats what you want to do then by all means man its your grow and i didnt mean to bash your methods..i guess im just used to trying to find alternatives for people around here  

anyways im interested to see them so make sure you post pics!! and great vibes headed your way!!



technical dan said:


> ok update time the first cube jar (one I pulled out of the inc.) is slowly growing after shaking/ rolling the jar the other day. And then Jar two is going:
> View attachment 2587768View attachment 2587769 second pic was taken today and the first was taken on the 22nd. I think I'm going to let that spot (only one I've seen) grow a bit more and then roll/ shake the jar.
> 
> I have not seen anything in any of the P. galindoi jars (two sets of inoculations and 6 pint jars total). Today I saw some white growth on various areas of the agar jar with GT . Nothing I can see on the glove box agar jar and now I have some oyster tissue on an agar jar. I have 3 pints with popcorn ready to be PC'ed going to do the first 2 tonight (hopefully). Two have silicone port lids and the third does not so the two will be shot up with GT and hopefully things will continue happening on the agar so I can transfer whatever (GT or oyster) happens to be ready into the third jar sometime soon.
> ...


well thats shitty you blew up your box but im happy to see mycelium growth!! looking great man.


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 26, 2013)

Ok so i have had a busy weekend and havent been able to get over to my grow since sat?? maybe Fri.. spent the night in jail on sunday to clear up some warrants (turned myself in) and finally got over to the grow today. and to my surprise, everything is now pinning. i do have a contam issue so im going to ride it out and see what happens, prob wont get a bunch of flushes but it almost seems like the mycelium is overtaking the green mold...does this sound right? im going to be cutting up a shit ton of hay tomorow and hopefully picking up some supplies to make that sterile room i was talking about earlier.

i have decided to drop the peat/verm casing and just go with a straight vermiculite casing afte bulk subbing to my straw. I will be taking more time to cut my straw up really fine and allowing more time for the bulk sub to fully colonize. i rushed into the first round and i assure you it wont happen again. i will be bulk subbing to the straw then casing with a 1" layer of vermiculite. then allowing 1 full week in the dark before i fruit. live and learn right 

and also to my delight when i went over to the grow my buddy had 80g of mushrooms picked for me to begin drying!!! they are definatly getting bigger on this second flush so im anxious to see what the 3rd flush brings..




4 jars are fully colonized, waiting on the rest to finish up then ill be doing my bulk sub trays prob this weekend, I will be doing 10 trays then doing G2G and re inoculating 11 more jars. the 10 trays will be in the dark for a minimum of 1 week but may let them go longer if the straw is not COMPLETLY colonized. like i said before im going to let patience win this time and not get too hasty...im hoping this will cut down on my contam issue considerably as i left too much uncolonized substrate and allowed the green mold to move in. 

anyways more pics tomorow!!


----------



## technical dan (Mar 26, 2013)

That event is now serving as a solid reminder for me from now on. My own fucking fault "I know I'll aerosolize flammable vapors and then provide a source of ignition".... cuz that'll work out. anyways thanks matt


----------



## polyarcturus (Mar 26, 2013)

oh lol i did not read abou the flash fire those are always the best ive had a few over my time, they always seem to amuse (because in most cases they are just harmless but a reminder of ones stupidity.) forget the lighter in the glove box just use some iso, wipe the needle down several times hasnt failed me yet.

this is another reason i dont seal my box, or spray more than a squirt of Lysol. but be careful use this info in the future i have seen bigger booms, that include things like freezer doors and such...


----------



## technical dan (Mar 26, 2013)

k cool then I assume that applies to exatco's/ scalpel equivalents as well. Yeah I use bleach solution this also prompted me to finally make a little spray bottle for easier use in the box.


----------



## polyarcturus (Mar 26, 2013)

what is best to do, with most tool, is to cover them with foil and PC them and then place in glove box for use, and alcohol as you go. it doesnt hurt to be overly precautions but alchohol is pretty good at sterilization. generally when receiving or using your own needles for mycoloogy, they are under sterile conditions 80% of the time, so a simple alchohol wipe should handle that.


----------



## Thundercat (Mar 26, 2013)

Congrats on the much bigger flush man! 

That will give you 2-3 good trips from that harvest!


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 27, 2013)

thanks TC, hpefully the next ones are much bigger. like i said the 2 totes with 2 cakes each in them are starting to pin and the pins are 3x the size as the first pins i seen so im expecting some good sized mushies from them. the ones i have now are not for my consumption. they are for bartering for more supplies for my second round.. i need more popcorn, totes, lasagna pans, jars, a roll of panda film and some more lysol..

im really determined to build a sterile room before i do any more myco work. dealing with this green mold is a nightmare and i dont want it to ever happen again.


----------



## canndo (Mar 27, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> thanks TC, hpefully the next ones are much bigger. like i said the 2 totes with 2 cakes each in them are starting to pin and the pins are 3x the size as the first pins i seen so im expecting some good sized mushies from them. the ones i have now are not for my consumption. they are for bartering for more supplies for my second round.. i need more popcorn, totes, lasagna pans, jars, a roll of panda film and some more lysol..
> 
> im really determined to build a sterile room before i do any more myco work. dealing with this green mold is a nightmare and i dont want it to ever happen again.




NOT going to happen that way retired, you cannot get away from trich, ever. It is one of the most prolific molds in the world. Sterility in your growing chamber is too unwieldy, you are best learning the likes and dislikes of trich and attempting to avoid them for as long as possible. Also the seasons play a part, early spring is bad, trich will have gained a foothold in loose wet vegitation and earth and will be sporulating like mad in the warming temps. Later, when things dry out you will have better luck.


----------



## Javadog (Mar 27, 2013)

Agreed.

The fact is that once you open the jar or sack, that trich
is on the scene. This goes for bacteria as well.

What we do is try to set the stage for our horse to win the race.

I have to admit that a HEPA filtered work area is on my wish list. LOL

...it is just so far down on the list as to be a dream at this point.

Good luck,

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 27, 2013)

well i can still clean up my process....it wont hurt and can only help right?


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 28, 2013)

sorry i didnt post up pics yesterday ebded up having to watch my kids and didnt get the chance. hoping to get over there today and do my pics.


----------



## polyarcturus (Mar 28, 2013)

"ebded up" huh?  its your journal, we dont need a frame by frame, although it is nice. at this point i would call your venture a success! all you need to do from here is improve and learn more. (and im sure cleaning wont hurt)


B+ isolation expanding in agar


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## Thundercat (Mar 28, 2013)

I agree you can be proud to say you have made this a success! I also have no doubt from getting to know you a bit more now Matt that you will infact make improvements and really knock this whole hobby out of the park. I also agree you can never really be clean enough so get on that....lol!


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 28, 2013)

Yes, i would also agree that i did have sucess with my first attempt...but with me its not quite time to stop trying to improve because although successfull i am not happy with my results..i am pleased with them, but not happy.

straw will be cut up finer.

things are just going to be done differently. i will def keep this journal going because i feel that its a good place for people to see the do's and dont's. 

I will be bulk subbing and G2G again this weekend (i hope) getting ready for round 2 and 3 

my first tray is spend, got 2 1/2 small flushes and maybe 10grams dry total. i still have 5 more trays fruiting, one of wich has a really bad contam of trich..but it is fruiting...will prob let it do its thing untill i go in and revamp the entire room (i knowi should get rid of it) 

all 5 trays are fruiting now.

had one jar with contams in it which was my own fault for not replacing a piece of ripped tinfoil and having the "fuck it" attitude

all the rest of the jars are looking great, some are 100% colonized, others are nearing around 80% 

got a fair amount of pics for ya guys today!! 

First set of pics...contam jar..my first one!! as you can see i ripped the foil doing my G2G i should have put another piece on top of it but said fuck it...lol i was actually kinda hoping to get a contamed jar because i wanted to be normal....0 contams in 2 runs seems supernatural lol 



next set of pics is a new method for cutting straw....this PITA task has become my worst nightmare....but needs to be done. so with the help of my buddy we have developed a nice little system using the mouths of soda bottles...just having him stuff the straw through the bottle and i cut it up, it helps cut down time because i dont have to bundle the straw up myself so i can stay on cutting. 



heres the spent tray...



heres the smaller bin that i didnt let colonize nearly long enough...has been fucked with too much and didnt cut my hay up enough...its a failure...couple mushies growing in it....will see where it goes.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 28, 2013)

oops hit the post button too quick lol

anyways heres the last of the pics...


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 28, 2013)

i wont be posting too many more pics of this current run, going to try and document my second instead. hoping i get better results  enjoy the fungus porn lol


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## Thundercat (Mar 28, 2013)

Very nice man, looks like you'll still get an ok flush from those contamed trays so thats sweet.


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## Javadog (Mar 28, 2013)

Pretty flush!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 28, 2013)

thanks guys... though i dont think its that pretty. hope someone on here can learn from my mistakes, if so makes it all worth while


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## canndo (Mar 28, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> thanks guys... though i dont think its that pretty. hope someone on here can learn from my mistakes, if so makes it all worth while



Your next will be spot on - get your timing right.


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## polyarcturus (Mar 28, 2013)

doing great man cant wait fo teh pics of some epic flushs! still working on making some of those myself.


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## CPmass (Mar 29, 2013)

Whew.. Sensory overload. Lot of info for this first timer to absorb.That video in your first post was definitely worth the hour. Cheesy, but very informative. Felt like home ec class all over again. 
My remaining questions after the vid were basically all answered through the spores101 site. 
Now just to hunt down a free pressure cooker and get my hands clean. 
Get it? Hands clean.. Hardy harr.. 
Cleanliness is next to shroomyness.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 30, 2013)

grubbed down 2.1g dry last night...def alot heavier of a "trip" than my first exp....definatly a good feeling. had fun, no visuals but defo out of my element.


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 30, 2013)

went and checked on the grow, i think round 1 is officially over, going to be doing my bulk sub soon and getting things set up for round 2


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## Thundercat (Mar 30, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> grubbed down 2.1g dry last night...def alot heavier of a "trip" than my first exp....definatly a good feeling. had fun, no visuals but defo out of my element.


Nice glad you enjoyed man. That sounds like a very accurate desciption of what 2.1 would do to me. Next time I suggest 3.5-4 to really get the whole effect now that we know these aren't going to be dangerously potent. Not that Golden teachers should have been but its always good to be safe especially when you havn't tripped before. Just my 2 cents but I'd be renting the 3 funniest movies I could find and rolling up about 3 blunts and getting ready for the ride.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Mar 30, 2013)

so, we took like 15g of fresh mushrooms and made a tea


can i just say.....oh my


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## MJG420 (Apr 1, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> so, we took like 15g of fresh mushrooms and made a tea
> 
> 
> can i just say.....oh my


Hahaha hell yeah Matt sounds like a good time! I managed to get out camping this weekend and the only thing that would have made it better would have been a nice big bag ofmushies! Almost positive I found a "magic mushroom" in my campsite yesterday morning so hopefully good things are coming soon! My jars seem to be taking awhile to colonize but are still growing.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 1, 2013)

yeah they do seem to take a while but they will get there. 

in the mushie tea we made we placed one shroom that was completly greenish blue, we are calling it the green meanie because i think that one mushroom is responsible for the intensity of the trip, i mean splitting 15g of wet mushies is not alot but we both were pretty fucked up.


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## technical dan (Apr 1, 2013)

ooh ok wet. thought you were going big when I read 15 grams thinking that was dry mushies. 

I'm going to transfer stuff out of my MS GT agar dish today. I'll try and isolate 3 separate mycs into new agar jars and the rest of the dish will be cut up and used to inc a popcorn jar.


----------



## shattaroach (Apr 1, 2013)

a how can i start a thread anyone inbox me if possible


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## Javadog (Apr 1, 2013)

Here you are seeing one thread. There is a link at the top to the forum in
which it resides. On the Forum Page there is a New Thread button.


----------



## shattaroach (Apr 1, 2013)

thanks look out for mines needs some help in design


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## Mookjong (Apr 1, 2013)

Nice progress Matt!

How to did you prepare your tea?

I'm interested if anyone has an easy way to mute the sound of the "Rattler" on a pressure cooker. Is it absolutely necessary leave it on? Anyone have a decent work around or a way to reduce the sound?


----------



## Thundercat (Apr 1, 2013)

YES necessary! That's what holds a certain pressure, it has to be just the correct weight to keep the pressure where its supposed to be so altering it might be a bad idea. If it didn't allow it to vent just right it would turn the thing into a bomb!!

I to would be interested in how you did your tea, I've thought Bout making some before just never got around to it as I figured it tasted nasty. One of the biggest reasons I've never tried morning glory tea, also the nausea factor which I'm told is almost gaurenteed.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 1, 2013)

i just cut up the mushrooms and steeped them in water for around 20 min...then added a tea bag and some sugar tasted just like a cup of tea.....with the occasional slimy lump hehe..


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 1, 2013)

all my jars are fully colonized BTW....sick as a dog right now so havent been getting much done. have the materials to bulk sub to straw 9 trays and then do a g2g. i also scrounged up a few pint sized mason jars so ill be doing a few more jars for my 3rd run...

only thing i have to do is cut up straw for 9 pans  worst job ever.


----------



## Thundercat (Apr 1, 2013)

Do you know any one with a food processor, seems like that could work well?


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 1, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Do you know any one with a food processor, seems like that could work well?


i have one, have already tried it......didnt work so well. I have a weed wacker and a 55 gal drum, that may be my next attempt. i want all 9 of my lasagna pans filled 3/4 of the way up with compressed straw. 

im wondering if sawdust or shavings would work....


----------



## Thundercat (Apr 1, 2013)

What attachment did you try on the food processor, I was thinking maybe the grater attachment and bundle the straw up like you were when you were scissoring it? Did you try adding a bit of water and using the chopping attachment? I don't know just brainstorming hope you don't mind.


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 1, 2013)

i just used the straight blade.....its not really a great food processor, kinda old but its just a blade on the bottom that chops....i did try adding water and it did work better but it would take me so long its simply not worth it.


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 1, 2013)

just a whole bail through a wood chipper lol


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## technical dan (Apr 1, 2013)

YES leave the rattler on the PC like thundercat said you need that on the top at the correct weight to keep it from being a bomb. Too much weight ---> too much pressure -----> explosion (if the other safeties do not function properly). Not enough weight ---> not enough pressure ----> poor sterilization.


----------



## Javadog (Apr 1, 2013)

QFT!

I think that you can actually compute the pressure achieved using 
the diameter of the vent hole and the weight. (i.e. it is much less 
than a square inch, and so the PSI resulting will be much more than
the weight of the bobbler).

Good luck,

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 8, 2013)

[video=youtube;K8E_zMLCRNg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg[/video]


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 8, 2013)

Hows everyones projects coming along? 

just a little update on mine. 

did my bulk sub on fri night, going to give them probabally 2 full weeks before i case. I wont be using the soil mixture to case again as i feel that it contamed too easily, instead i may just fruit the straw cakes as is or i may just do a 100% vermiculite casing. i havent decided yet but am leaning more towards the 100% vermiculite. 

9 pans got bulk subbed and today i am headed over to PC some more corn and do my G2G's probabally wont have much up for pics for another week since i dont want to even touch the bulk subs for at least a week, then im going to give a peek and make a judgment call on how much longer before i take my next step. hopefully by the time my bukk substrate is all ready to move onto the next stage my G2G have fully colonized and i can have more pans ready to start bulk colonization. need to get this project down to a point where i am able to pick mushrooms almost every day. summer is coming and the demand for these babies is going to increase soon.

anyways happy days guys, lemme know how your all making out  i think i see a new strain coming in the near future, or maybe even 2 new strains.


----------



## technical dan (Apr 8, 2013)

nice job keepin em (shrooms) comin matt. 

ok so my two initial pints of MS GT on rye berries are colonizing. then the next sets of inoculations were P. galindoi on rye in a total of 6 pints with a little growth (which has not really done anything) on the bottom of the first 2 knocked up with MS. 

Then there are 3 popcorn pints all with GT two were inoc'ed with the spore syringe and the third was inoc'ed with MS mycelium on/from agar. Those jars all have growth and have all been faster than the rye in terms of visible initial growth and the rate of colonization. Yesterday I transferred an oyster isolate from agar into rye no signs of growth quite yet. So that is a total of 12 pints with 5 going nicely which are all GT.

Then there are my agar jars. I have 3 agar jars with GT isolates one jar has two variants so it is not truly an isolate.... yet. Then a jar with some myc. from the oyster isolate and one with that was inoced with spores from my P. galindoi print no myc yet but there are signs of growth. The plan with half the stuff on agar is to make syringes (for inoc) and vials (to store genetics) of myc suspended in distilled water. The rest will be cut up and transferred into grains (quite possibly popcorn, and agar) as necessary. 

I would love to have some boom booms for spring n early summer to eat not too far out of school........... but it'll happen when it happens. You should grab some other variants or even other species to try matt I'm sitting on syringes for B+ and KSSS and a Pollock print once I feel I have a better handle on whats happening.


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## Thundercat (Apr 8, 2013)

Sounds good guys. I havn't a project to report on other then my garden still. You guys are rolling along nicely it seems though. Sounds like with all those trays your gonna be in them soon matt. When I did my caseings I used the 100% verm about 1/2 inch think, seemed to work well for me.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 8, 2013)

technical dan said:


> nice job keepin em (shrooms) comin matt.
> 
> ok so my two initial pints of MS GT on rye berries are colonizing. then the next sets of inoculations were P. galindoi on rye in a total of 6 pints with a little growth (which has not really done anything) on the bottom of the first 2 knocked up with MS.
> 
> ...



sounds like you have been staying busy  Yeah i definatly will be looking into some different strains here soon. want to perfect the GT grow first though. then im going to try out the famous PE, also going to get another type but not sure what...def want something nice and potent. 



Thundercat said:


> Sounds good guys. I havn't a project to report on other then my garden still. You guys are rolling along nicely it seems though. Sounds like with all those trays your gonna be in them soon matt. When I did my caseings I used the 100% verm about 1/2 inch think, seemed to work well for me.


haha yeah man, 9 trays if they all make it should gove me some good flushs, the bulk sub is finely chopped straw thats around 2.5 inches thisck so i will have a nice cake. now the only thng to do is wait until the straw cakes are FULLY colonized. Oh and TC to cut up the straw i used the food processor, for some reason it works great this time. i remember trying it before and it didnt work worth a shit but this time it worked like a charm....i did feed the straw into the food processor differently this time so maybe that was the issue.


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## Thundercat (Apr 8, 2013)

Glad it worked better man, the feed method might have made all the difference. It had to be way faster then scissors. It seemed like your straw colonized well last time I bet with it chopped better and packed tighter it will make an even nicer cake like you said.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 8, 2013)

hoping so, summer is fast approaching and im gonna need me some mushrooms soon lol. still waiting to go on my "big" trip. will prob eat a quarter of dry to the dome.


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## Thundercat (Apr 8, 2013)

Good luck with that! I ate a 1/4 of aborts one night, was a CRAZY night for sure, first time I ever puked off mushrooms. I don't personally recommend drinking before or with them I learned that that night. I also found that the hotter I get the harder I trip so now I like to have a fan or A/C available to stay cool when on high doses. Though that being said I think I'm over eating any more then an 1/8. That gives me plenty of fun.


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## Javadog (Apr 8, 2013)

I just got a new Maitake (Grifola frondosa)



I have some ethenogenic exotics in the SGFC....no idea if I will get fruits yet.

Take care,

JD


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## Killua (Apr 8, 2013)

My monotub has been colonizing for 3 days. Ill get pics when i put into fruiting.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 8, 2013)

its hard to really scale, like i had said before i ate like 12-14 grams of wet mushies one night and bareley felt anything. then made a tea with 12-14g of wet mushies and split it with my buddy and we had a really intense trip for about 2 hours. anyhoo...ill see how things go, might go ahead and try a 4 gram dose in the near future to see where that gets me 

i dont want to over do it but i do want to get er done. and i want to make sure i trip good for at least 6 hours.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 8, 2013)

Javadog said:


> I just got a new Maitake (Grifola frondosa)
> 
> View attachment 2607025
> 
> ...


cool mushroom man, do you eat them??? looks like oyster mushrooms?? kinda?? lol i have no clue really  



Killua said:


> My monotub has been colonizing for 3 days. Ill get pics when i put into fruiting.


nice, good vibes headed your way man, cant wait to see some pics


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## Javadog (Apr 8, 2013)

They are a desirable edible, and go for about $35/lb dry where I am, 
if they can be found.

The funny thing is that I have not figure out how best to prepare one.
I wasted my first, and this one is being used to collect a spore print.

We usually use agar slants for strain storage/protection of edible
species, to avoid the dreaded "non-fruiting strain". This being said
a spore print is a really safe way to save a species long term.

This species has the common name "Hen Of The Woods" in the USA.

Take care,

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 13, 2013)

ok so for those of you who are still interested in this thread heres a little update.

did my bulk sub and G2G last friday, everything seems to be chugging right along. prob another week at least before my bulk sub is ready to be cased. The G2G was a decent sucess. mycelium is growing well in all the jars, running 14 jars. 11 1/2 pint jars and 3 pint sized jars. all of them are growing.

a funk smell was noticed in a few of my bulk tubs and the mycelium growth in them dosent seem to be growing as well as the tubs with the earthy smell. its kinda a sour smell but no visible contams. going to give them all another week and if they are still doing poorly and not at the same stage as the rest ill be chucking them. figure even if i get 4 out of 9 trays to fully colonize ill still be in good shape. 

ill get some pics up next week once the mycelium in the tubs and jars has developed enough but pretty much the same ole same. once i start working and get a little extra cash ill be ordering some more spores, get some new strains going on. 

the weather is getting nicer out, slowly but surely summer is on the way. will be doing a good dose as soon as the weather is nice enough to go "out" for the day, so far with my little trips i have done i have come to the conclusion that im an outside tripper, i dont like being inside. 

anyways thats about it...


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## Javadog (Apr 13, 2013)

Yes, a sour smell will usually indicate a bacterial contam...
...which will also have the effect of stalling growth without
otherwise appearing visibly. No harm in waiting them out.
I watched Semperviva eat several things during colonization.

Good luck,

JD


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## polyarcturus (Apr 13, 2013)

Javadog said:


> Yes, a sour smell will usually indicate a bacterial contam...
> ...which will also have the effect of stalling growth without
> otherwise appearing visibly. No harm in waiting them out.
> I watched Semperviva eat several things during colonization.
> ...


dealing with this issue my self.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 13, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> dealing with this issue my self.


sucks but im starting to think that mushroom growing in the average home is a 50/50 ordeal...so many contams floating around its almost impossible to get 100% sucess.

my problem is im haveing great sucess with colonizing my corn (almost 100%) but after that is where im seeing issues...

what can i do? i mean bulk sub seems to be the way but it also seems to be 1 extra step to grab ahold of contams.....should i just fruit them right out the jars like PF tek? this shit is frustrating me. i really like the idea of the straw but i hate to throw away 5 trays of bulk...

bleh i guess one more week and we will see where things are at. i may just start doing a verm and corn mix and cut out the bulk sub shit. so far my best results are from one 1/2 pint jar and about 3 cups of pasturized verm. all this straw shit seems to be just hindering my sucess.


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## polyarcturus (Apr 13, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> sucks but im starting to think that mushroom growing in the average home is a 50/50 ordeal...so many contams floating around its almost impossible to get 100% sucess.
> 
> my problem is im haveing great sucess with colonizing my corn (almost 100%) but after that is where im seeing issues...
> 
> ...


i was thinking about invitro PF tek for a while. but the issue is the time of the year as well as my growing conditions. im just packing it up for know gonna head outdoors and see what nature can provide tomorrow but other than that till i move i cutting out my mushroom project/s. defiantly fun and worth another go, just has to be the right place and time.

if i showed my field of green in the basement, with one mushroom fruiting you would laugh you ass off. its not even a big one either. lol


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 13, 2013)

man i never laugh at anyone...you got me all wrong bro. i hate people who laugh at others. I think its counterproductive to society. i laugh with you and work with you. i dont know it all so i have no place judging (which is what laughing at someone is)

hope all works out for you man good vibes as always.


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## polyarcturus (Apr 13, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> man i never laugh at anyone...you got me all wrong bro. i hate people who laugh at others. I think its counterproductive to society. i laugh with you and work with you. i dont know it all so i have no place judging (which is what laughing at someone is)
> 
> hope all works out for you man good vibes as always.



nono its not like that. if it was my weed i would never have stated it that way, but i care a lot less about mushrooms than i do weed, mushrooms are my hobby weed is my life. i can laugh at my mushroom experiences cause ive learned alot and it didnt cost me much if anything, hell what am i talking about it profited me in many ways


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 13, 2013)

just smoked this shit called "Holliday" one hit wonder shit...


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## aCiDjEsUs (Apr 13, 2013)

Do you feel like on a "Holliday"?


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## Mookjong (Apr 13, 2013)

If your doing a 50/50 style tek (coir/verm) ditch the straw, it's simply a redundancy. The coir will give you everything the straw will. Straw is more of a dung type thing. IMHO...

50/50 with a lil peat is hard to beat! el oh el


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## Javadog (Apr 13, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> sucks but im starting to think that mushroom growing in the average home is a 50/50 ordeal...so many contams floating around its almost impossible to get 100% sucess.
> 
> my problem is im haveing great sucess with colonizing my corn (almost 100%) but after that is where im seeing issues...
> 
> ...


Hey,

I wanted to recommend that you try fruiting straight grains, and cased grains. 

These are just two more ways to get fruits that are an option for P. cubensis. 
(few other shroom species are as easy-going )

You just dump the grains out into a tray, and cover them for a few days while 
they recover, or you put on a casing layer and then cover until you see mycelium
just starting to poke through the casing.

As to 100%....it is a myth. I can get into the high 90's when it comes to sub
sack successful colonization. ...but clean spawn can be a bit harder. Especially
if you are growing finicky species (I most surely am! ;0)

Good luck,

JD


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## aCiDjEsUs (Apr 14, 2013)

Hey guys maybe you can help me out a bit here, I was looking at my jars the other day it's been over a month since a knocked them up, they look fine and shit sides of the jars are nice and whit it's just the bottom of the jars that is having hard time to colonize I mean it's white and shit but I still can see some brf thru it, should I flip them upside down? or should just wait another couple of weeks?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 14, 2013)

from my experience the bottom of the jars always takes the longest, but the bottoms are always the most thickly covered with myc when they finish. i would say give them more time but i dont really know. im asuming you mean flip them so that the bottom becomes the top and maybe the mycelium will grow up faster than down. i dont BELIEVE that mycelium has a preference in its growth orientation but i may be wrong. hope someone with a bit more knowledge comes in to lend thier advice. 

as far as fruiting straight grains...i think my next run will be just that, mixed with some vermiculite to kinda spread it over the pan and using min of 1 pint per pan. will see how the straw bulk sub goes.


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## Thundercat (Apr 14, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> from my experience the bottom of the jars always takes the longest, but the bottoms are always the most thickly covered with myc when they finish. i would say give them more time but i dont really know. im asuming you mean flip them so that the bottom becomes the top and maybe the mycelium will grow up faster than down. i dont BELIEVE that mycelium has a preference in its growth orientation but i may be wrong. hope someone with a bit more knowledge comes in to lend thier advice.
> 
> as far as fruiting straight grains...i think my next run will be just that, mixed with some vermiculite to kinda spread it over the pan and using min of 1 pint per pan. will see how the straw bulk sub goes.


I totally suggest giving it a try. That is basically what I was doing, i never got into the real bulk subs, just grain and course vermiculite in a 50/50 mix. I would wet the verm to the appropriate point, and I think I may have microwaved it at least one of the times to kill stuff. Then mixed in my grain jars, patted it down, and covered with foil and stuck it in my incubator. Usually 3-4 days later it was ready to case and fruit. I'm sure doing it without the verm at all would could even reduce the contam rates as well.


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## Javadog (Apr 14, 2013)

Using plain, wet verm as a sub was known as the "rez effect". The idea
was that the verm played the role of reservoir of water for the fungi.

As to the bottoms of jars, this is most often where grains are left 
uncolonized, and spawn jars stall and fail. Aaaa-gain, the culprit is 
usually bacteria.

If you see growth in all areas, but it is just that there seems to be 
uncolonized grain bodies against the glass at the bottom, then it 
might just be finishing slow. You can use spawn that is at 100%
with success that still has this look.

It is really hard to be certain. 

Take a whiff at the GE port for any bad smells.

If/when you decide to try to use it, then you will find out the 
answer. The smell is again usually the easiest indicator.

Good luck,

JD


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## polyarcturus (Apr 14, 2013)

yep smells like sweet vomit or baby diarrhea. you get the idea, its not the natural appealing fruit smell that mushrooms normally have.


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## technical dan (Apr 16, 2013)

ok so I was starting a casing procedure and I broke up the myc. by hitting the jar against a bike tire and it went from looking like the jar on the left to looking like (and being) the jar on the right. 
After breaking it up there is myc on every kernel but not like the solid mass that had colonized the outside. So are my jars fully colonized? Are they ready to be cased?


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## growyurown (Apr 16, 2013)

I asked cando about that and he said give it one day and case. I do kno the myc will bounce back though. But better let him chime in. I am fruiting directly out of my quart jars this time.


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## polyarcturus (Apr 16, 2013)

yes now pour it and mix it with sub and incubate the finished results.


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## Javadog (Apr 16, 2013)

Yup. It is in fact colonized properly.

This is just how spawn looks when broken up.

I can not think of a species that, after being shaken, results
in particularly fuzzy result. They all take on more of a plain
grain look.

Onward and upward,

JD


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## technical dan (Apr 16, 2013)

thank you for the quick replies everyone. yeah I was/ have been bugging out a bit on that. Casing away .... again thanks everybody


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## canndo (Apr 16, 2013)

technical dan said:


> ok so I was starting a casing procedure and I broke up the myc. by hitting the jar against a bike tire and it went from looking like the jar on the left to looking like (and being) the jar on the right. View attachment 2618367
> After breaking it up there is myc on every kernel but not like the solid mass that had colonized the outside. So are my jars fully colonized? Are they ready to be cased?



Looks good - maybe. I don't know when you posted this, perhaps you see growth again and if you do fine, but look closely at the picture and you see what MIGHT be a wet sort of outline between one of the kernels and the glass - pay heed to this, it is, (if that is really what I am seeing and not some sort of reflectin), then you have a bacterial infection. It is called wet spot and one of the sure ways you can tell (other than the smell - of rotten apples), is a wet looking outline between the glass and individual kernels.


If you shake, then you have no need for concern about the insides of the jars, you know that if you see 100 percent white covering all the kernels you see, then it will indeed be covering all the kernels you can't see either.


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## technical dan (Apr 16, 2013)

those pics were taken this morning. Yes there was water in the jars the amount of liquid fluctuates with temperatures and it was present in both of those jars. There was no water in the third jar (not pictured). After ending up with excess water in the first two I added some verm before PCing the third (it was also inco'ed with MS myc on agar rather than an MS syringe). All of the jars had an earthish mushroomy smell when opened and after being emptied.


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## Javadog (Apr 16, 2013)

If there was a problem with that jar, then bacteria will be the cause.

If when you spawn it, it smells mushroomy, then you will know that it was good.

Impossible to be certain, especially remotely.

Good luck,

JD


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## canndo (Apr 16, 2013)

technical dan said:


> those pics were taken this morning. Yes there was water in the jars the amount of liquid fluctuates with temperatures and it was present in both of those jars. There was no water in the third jar (not pictured). After ending up with excess water in the first two I added some verm before PCing the third (it was also inco'ed with MS myc on agar rather than an MS syringe). All of the jars had an earthish mushroomy smell when opened and after being emptied.


this bacteria will make even a dryish jar or bag look wet. If you smelled this stuff you would know there was something wrong. It is not a pleasant smell.


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## polyarcturus (Apr 16, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> yep smells like sweet vomit or baby diarrhea. you get the idea, its not the natural appealing fruit smell that mushrooms normally have.





canndo said:


> this bacteria will make even a dryish jar or bag look wet. If you smelled this stuff you would know there was something wrong. It is not a pleasant smell.



and it looks like slime in there when you shake it.


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## MagikNinja (Apr 17, 2013)

im going to give growing some shrooms for the first time next winter! looks fairly easy with an awesome reward


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## polyarcturus (Apr 17, 2013)

MagikNinja said:


> im going to give growing some shrooms for the first time next winter! looks fairly easy with an awesome reward


good luck with the "fairly easy" part. but it is rewarding.


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## Javadog (Apr 17, 2013)

Bring the patience of a ninja too.

:0)

It is a very fun hobby. Good luck.

JD


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## MagikNinja (Apr 17, 2013)

haha patience is a virtue i definatly have  
nothing about it looks all that hard but honestly right now im just speculating. ill find out at the end of the year!


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## Thundercat (Apr 18, 2013)

I wouldn't say any of its is really "hard". Time consuming some times very much so. Meticulous with the cleaning and certain procedures absolutely. Difficult to actually do the various tasks.....I don't think so much.


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## MagikNinja (Apr 18, 2013)

lol what in this world isn't time consuming and meticulous these days?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 19, 2013)

well round 2 seems to be a flop.....threw away 8 trays with contam, had a sour smell. 

have 4 more trays that seems to be alright but borderline. Im debating just chucking them and waiting for the 14 jars of corn i have now to finish colonizing. 

next round im not doing any straw or bulk sub, 50/50 vermiculite/sub 3 days to recover then fruiting. nothing should contam the vermiculite and if my mycelium is strong oon my sub it should recover well in just a day or 2. this is the method i have had sucess with so im going to stick with it.


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## technical dan (Apr 19, 2013)

sucks matt, but itll just improve from there/ now right

I am going to put my cased tray into fruiting conditions today or tomorrow. Going to case a rye jar in a pot and then a larger pot will be its FC as my little terrarium will be full. And a little agar work should start up round two. I already have some jars PCed and waiting several rye and one corn, I will prob switch to corn/ go buy more corn the next time I load jars. 

I am going to have contam pretty quickly with these two casings as I ended up getting my temps to high during prep so there was deff. a partial sterilization rather than a proper pasteurization......... figured that one out after reading more after I had cased. Well knowledge for next time ..... which will prob be next week this time I'll listen to the tek, put the lid on and shut off the damn burner n move the pot and leave it alone.


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## growyurown (Apr 19, 2013)

I have 6 jars looking like this. Casing is anywhere between 75-95% colonized, fruiting directly out of quart mason jar, fae 3-4 times a day with 10-12 hours of light per day and dropped temps 5-10 degrees? Also using a ziplock bag for high humidity. Any ideas when a pinset will begin? I started fruiting 3 days ago


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## polyarcturus (Apr 20, 2013)

growyurown said:


> View attachment 2622554View attachment 2622555I have 6 jars looking like this. Casing is anywhere between 75-95% colonized, fruiting directly out of quart mason jar, fae 3-4 times a day with 10-12 hours of light per day and dropped temps 5-10 degrees? Also using a ziplock bag for high humidity. Any ideas when a pinset will begin? I started fruiting 3 days ago


soon very soon!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 20, 2013)

growyurown said:


> View attachment 2622554View attachment 2622555I have 6 jars looking like this. Casing is anywhere between 75-95% colonized, fruiting directly out of quart mason jar, fae 3-4 times a day with 10-12 hours of light per day and dropped temps 5-10 degrees? Also using a ziplock bag for high humidity. Any ideas when a pinset will begin? I started fruiting 3 days ago


like poly said should be verry soon. i found on my first batch that pinning took forever, when we drilled some holes closer to the bottom of the container to let CO2 out they started pinning. CO2 is heavier than O2 and one of the things that imvites pinning is lack of CO2. I always thought it was the abundance of O2. anyways that Mycelium is constantly letting off CO2 and it will just sit there. if theres any way you can allow that CO2 to passivly escape you will see faster pinning. 

at least this is how i understand it. some of the more experienced cultivators can definatly correct my information if its wrong.


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## polyarcturus (Apr 20, 2013)

i think what canndo would say is "turn your jars upside down a few times a day." great point RMB.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 21, 2013)

im wondering if fle bombs will kill contams as well?

thoughts?


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## polyarcturus (Apr 21, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> im wondering if fle bombs will kill contams as well?
> 
> thoughts?


whats in them? but no i dont think so.. i would think some pesticides would serve as a food source for comtams.


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## Killua (Apr 21, 2013)

Put in to fruiting today.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 21, 2013)

Killua said:


> Put in to fruiting today.


verry nice but you must have put them into fruiting conditions before today they look like they will be ready to pick tomorow or the next day


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## Killua (Apr 21, 2013)

It is supposed to turn out like this. This pic is off of *TranscendingLife* thread on shroomery i followed his one flush wonder tek.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 21, 2013)

they grow really fast once they start pinning. 

looks like you have your first flush coming up roght now and they will continue to pin up as you go. i never really seen "flushes" with the pan i fruited. just kinda picked daily as they came up. either way looks great man glad to see some pics of sucess. i just chucked out my second run, 9 pans of bulk sub all contam  

next run will be better i hope. Im dumping the straw tek and going with a vermculite casing. anyhoo....keep us posted!!


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## Javadog (Apr 21, 2013)

Killua said:


> It is supposed to turn out like this. This pic is off of *TranscendingLife* thread on shroomery i followed his one flush wonder tek.


I can personally vouch for any mycological pointers that TL has to offer.

JD


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## growyurown (Apr 21, 2013)

No signs of pins yet but the top of the casing layer is white, but not fluffy. Basically just flat and white like in the picture on the previous page... Is this overlay or what's goin on. The first time growing with brf cakes it was fluffy but I didn't have an 1 1/2 inches of casing


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 22, 2013)

Growyurown, you should start to see pinning any day now m8, congrats...please post pics up whenever you get around to it.


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## Killua (Apr 23, 2013)

update mono


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## MJG420 (Apr 23, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> Growyurown, you should start to see pinning any day now m8, congrats...please post pics up whenever you get around to it.


Posted some new pics this morning!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 23, 2013)

Killua said:


> update mono



verry nice M8 looks like you will be harvesting by tomorow  



MJG420 said:


> Posted some new pics this morning!


sweet ill go check them out in a sec


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 23, 2013)

Well been busy with my new job, ended up throwing out every pan of bulk sub  the good news is i have more jars colonizing fast  (sorry if i already said this) 

next weekend ill be doing a different method and hopefully have some mushroom pics up soon


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## technical dan (Apr 23, 2013)

looks good killua. I like your outdoor patch MJG I have a pot with some cased grains outside right now depending on how it goes I'll dig out a bit of space around the base of a large bush and try to have some there. 

matt do you mean the all verm casing or something else?

some myc is starting to grow up through one corner of my tray so hopefully it'll go through the rest in the next couple days and start to pin.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 24, 2013)

no the bulk sub's i did with straw. my entire second run is trashed lol. 

i need to find time to go do some cleaning, i think with all the penicilin mold the place is just infested. though the majority of the trays were bacterial contam and some white cotton ball looking shit. a few green spots here and there but.....

one i get a better work enviorment i may go back to trying a bulk substrate but for now i want to try and eliminate and possibilities of contam's. by using vermiculite as a "casing" i shouldnt get much growing on it if my corn is already established with mycelium as vermiculite has not nutritional value and dosent support life..... at least thats how i have percieved it. my jars should be ready by this weekend and i get my first check. i have 2 rather large tubs so ill be splitting up my jars and basically just dumping a bag of vermiculite into the tote, mixing in the corn and misting till moist. not sure if im going to try and pasturize the verm or not, i dont think its really needed is it?


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## Killua (Apr 24, 2013)

Update mono


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## technical dan (Apr 24, 2013)

ok I think someone referred to that as the res effect sometime earlier. Even though the verm will not really support life it could still harbor it or be a vector of contam for any bits of uncolinized grain. So maybe bring it up to field water cap. with water and some hydrogen peroxide and give it some time in the microwave to kill anything trying to hitch a ride on it. The microwave may not be necessary (since the verm is non-nutritive) but I think you should still have some H2O2 in you water/ spray.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 24, 2013)

Killua said:


> Update mono


looks like the veils will be breaking shortly. yay


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 24, 2013)

technical dan said:


> ok I think someone referred to that as the res effect sometime earlier. Even though the verm will not really support life it could still harbor it or be a vector of contam for any bits of uncolinized grain. So maybe bring it up to field water cap. with water and some hydrogen peroxide and give it some time in the microwave to kill anything trying to hitch a ride on it. The microwave may not be necessary (since the verm is non-nutritive) but I think you should still have some H2O2 in you water/ spray.


yeah i was thinking of doing maybe a oven bake on 200 for like 30 min


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## technical dan (Apr 24, 2013)

that should take care of it


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## Killua (Apr 24, 2013)

just cut my first fruit 24G fresh


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## Javadog (Apr 24, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> yeah i was thinking of doing maybe a oven bake on 200 for like 30 min


This is a good idea.

I have used 350 F for 30 minutes too.

JD


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## Thundercat (Apr 24, 2013)

Congrats Killua that will give you a nice trip!

Matt sorry to hear about the last trays I think your on the right track for the next ones though!


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## Thundercat (Apr 29, 2013)

hehe got a phone call the other day that a friend had some mushrooms. I was like sure you do, can you get more, I'm always very sceptical when people tell me that. I'd say 90% of the time they are talking out of their ass. Well long story short they were for real, supposedly amozonians. Ate some (2g and another g about an hour later, should have ate them all at once) the other night, had a decent trip. It seemed to be a pretty strong body high, with very little mind fuck, and mild visuals. The guy claims he is gonna start growing them, so I told him if he learns what he's doing and has some successful crops I'd give him one of my Koh Samoi prints I've got, those should impress him.


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## Javadog (Apr 29, 2013)

It does seem to be hard to find them....probably easier to do a foray
for wild finds if you are in the right area.

This is what got me to start thinking about learning to cultivate them.

I hope that your friend enjoys the process.

JD


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## Thundercat (Apr 29, 2013)

We'll see if he follows through I have my doubts. I have found mushrooms to always be elusive, which is also what lead me to my growing adventures as well.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 29, 2013)

put all my colonized jars into fruiting conditions saturday....left some of the corn cakes whole and in the other tub i crumbled them all up just to see what kind of difference it makes.


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## Javadog (Apr 29, 2013)

Good luck!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Apr 29, 2013)

thanks JD, im definatly hoping this run is a bit more successfull. im leaving most of my supplies at my friends house and going to let him take over that grow. I will start a new one with fresh spores and a whole new setup. only thing im taking is my incubator.


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## technical dan (Apr 29, 2013)

sounds good matt. 

my stuff in the FC has myc through most of the casing, the oyster jar has overtaken it's casing. So I am looking forward to seeing pins at some point in the near future


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## Devils love (May 5, 2013)

*twitches* well ill be damned..i hit the end of this 100 page thread D: well glad its like a time warp and i read in the past and followed you that way..but daaammmnn lmfao that was a good week i spent reading that just spread out id say...bit of sessions here and there...
trip 
so anyhow...ive been reading up on mycology as im going to be moving into a house here soon...i cant smoke marijuana anymore as i got my STNA and i want out of my shitty burger job lmfao that and ive been looking into the military and also school. so mushrooms are the safe trip ;D but yeah? thanks for helping me brush up a bit and i look forward to it all :] im sure here soon ill be joining in on the forums more? i just dont have the equipment nor land to grow my own smoke..although ive thought about maybe going to remote areas..but who knows? so im sure ill rely on a few of you when my time comes..as of now? ehh just wanted to say thanks for the great thread and good vibes to you all ;P and canndo gotta love your outlooks bro ^^

oh btw...retired you mentioned fear and loathing? well if you have bit torrent downloaded (easy as hell too if not just google.) but here pirate bay  and it play off your computer..i just downloaded it maybe an hour ago when i read through that section of the post as i love adding to my collection and that one is a great movie  you ever heard of Rango? its a cartoon movie about a chameleon..lmfao anyhow he goes to cross the road and you see fear and loathing xD lmfao!! in a damn kids movie...gotta love it i had a good laugh..ill try to hyper link it here for you all


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## Devils love (May 5, 2013)

http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/4526635/Fear_And_Loathing_In_Las_Vegas

just make sure you hit the get this torrent after you have Bit. and not the random download ones everywhere if you arent familiar with the bay  great site :] anyhow enjoy


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## Devils love (May 5, 2013)

[video=youtube;K7Sjm8VW1Rs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Sjm8VW1Rs[/video]


----------



## Devils love (May 5, 2013)

Btw...sorry for my random ass introduction into your mycology thread D: just ehh i feel like i was apart of it sorta with the reading and just butting in randomly now that i caught up >.< just wanted to make an appearance and thank you all  good information here ^^


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## Javadog (May 5, 2013)

This seems to be a very open thread. 

Good luck with your efforts.

Let us know if we can help.

JD


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## Thundercat (May 5, 2013)

I love that movie, and it is always an intense trip when I eat and 1/8th and watch that movie, makes you feel like you in it sharing their adventure!


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## Javadog (May 5, 2013)

I often quote the summary of the article. (the scene at the end where
he wakes in the flooded hotel room and types up his article)



> We are all wired into a survival trip now. No more of the speed that fueled that 60's. That was the fatal flaw in Tim Leary's trip. He crashed around America selling "consciousness expansion" without ever giving a thought to the grim meat-hook realities that were lying in wait for all the people who took him seriously... All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit. But their loss and failure is ours too. What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped create... a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic fallacy of the Acid Culture: the desperate assumption that somebody... or at least some force - is tending the light at the end of the tunnel.


Crazy stuff.

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (May 5, 2013)

Devils Love, welcome aboard...no need to apologize as this thread is open to anyone and everyone. feel free to shoot the shit here, lots of great people following this thread.

if you ever dive into mycology let us know your plans and progression.


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## Devils love (May 5, 2013)

sounds great ^^ thanks all and i surely will  ill be moving into a 3 bedroom house. with only one room mate...so vacant room? ill pick one with a great closet. make that be where i put my bulk spawns so they can be fully saturated by the mycellan growth in a good dark place and then use the rest as a great setup..just figure ehhh im not experienced in it all..learned most of the lingo through this thread and also other reading that i have collected on the internet  which tons of facts and information..so i figure ill take some pictures of the room? and try to layout a good setup and get everything i need in there and try to make sure i have it all in a good clean environment that has only one use  growing my boomers ;d lmao ^^ idk just figure some of you may enjoy helping me on my adventure but ehh...im sure canndo has helped enough noobs as ive seen him around quite a bit in the subjects that interest me  another great thread i saw was one about the silk road and deep web  interesting stuff xD sorta crazy though...anyhow...ill just watch and learn a bit more and maybe pop in for a few questions as we go..but ill try to start my own thread when i do get all my stuff up and running and at that point


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## Devils love (May 5, 2013)

which im moving into my house over the next 3 days  soo woooo!! just found that out :] cant wait to get it up and running great timing to be honest :] i want to end up making chocolates out of my product  easy to store and easy to down


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## technical dan (May 7, 2013)

welcome to the thread DL. you should have plenty of space with an extra room to use. And for the chocolate I believe almond bark is the suggested material for that type of thing ..... I might be making some too I enjoy the taste of my drugs but I can think of a couple friends who would appreciate a candy bar cover-up. 

over on the shroomery there are a couple teks that use a different hydration method for grains, without boiling http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18135103 there is the one for cubes and another for scleroita producers http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17910649#17910649. It's a long read but well done IMO and the no boil grain seems to work (I want to emphasize this section, unfortunately it is a no go for pcorn with this method so ..... yeah it may not be immediately applicable for many here); made some jars like this a few days ago. 

I used the excess soak water(solution) from the prep to make agar and spores have germed and grown some myc after 2 days, much faster than on the potato agar from the grocery store tek. One of those jars has P galindoi ATL 7 (YAY!!) from sporeworks after a print from another site never did anything which may have been my fault either way now I have progress occurring with this species.


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## Javadog (May 7, 2013)

Regarding easy methods of ingestion, having more fruits than you need
will free you up to try tea. Making tea, and throwing away the steeped
mushroom flesh seems contrary to young college students who just handed
over what little dough they have for a few grams of cubes. Getting massive
flushes of fresh actives will allow you to try all sorts of things.

I make tea by dropping the ground fruits into boiling water, taking the water
off the heat, and letting it steep for 10 minutes or so. I put mint tea bags 
in with the shrooms, and sweeten to taste. Delicious, and very effective.

I am happy to see The Shroomery mentioned here. It is probably the most
active of the mushroom cultivation sites. Full Disclosure: I am a Trusted
Cultivator and Moderator there. (Myco-Tek is my home though ;0)

I recommend the soak+simmer+steam-dry for perfect grain spawn.
This is the standard "RR approach" lol Check out the free samples
of his videos at mushroomvideos.com if you can. They lay out 
PF-Tek, grain spawn, and straw prep.

I recommend Milo (Sorghum) or Rye or Wheat Berries for grain spawn. These
are just what I have used. I did not try popcorn....probably because it
is kinda slammed as a spawn grain. I do not listen to that sort of stuff though.
Do this long enough and you will see someone succeed in doing something
you would have thought was practically impossible. I usually cite where
someone got good flushes from a *pumpkin guts sub*. It was sooo gooey,
I was sure that it would rot. Nope. ...enough verm and anything is
a sub, I say. 

As to modified agar formulas TD, that was brilliant. Along a similar vein,
I have used the water from a wood-chip soak for the agar used with
a wood-lover.

Good luck,

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (May 7, 2013)

We are pinning!!!


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## Thundercat (May 7, 2013)

Woot thats always exciting!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (May 7, 2013)

still some trich contam but i dont think were getting away from that in that place!!! going to be moving the operation shortly and doing things a bit different. Going to leave my friend with all the supplies i have bought (except incubator, and we will share PC) 

giving up on bulk subs and SGFC;s 

gonna go small but big........at least 6 pints of grain un cased in a lasagna pan......no verm or anything. (maybe a sprinkle but not enough to count, 1:50 ratio) 

going to fruit my grains in a PF tek style...i suppose lots to try with this hobby but something needs to be done to better my results.....though judging by the pinning occuring i should have a nice couple of last flushes coming, will be taking a 6g (dry) dose in the next couple weeks and realy experiencing this trip.


----------



## polyarcturus (May 7, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> still some trich contam but i dont think were getting away from that in that place!!! going to be moving the operation shortly and doing things a bit different. Going to leave my friend with all the supplies i have bought (except incubator, and we will share PC)
> 
> giving up on bulk subs and SGFC;s
> 
> ...


im gonna start fruiting invotro i think, rack type setup where co2 falls and fae rises. reall clean easy to do you can go pretty big with it too from what ive seen.. right now my projects are on hold, fruiting from agar atm to try and create some sterile prints for later.


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## Thundercat (May 7, 2013)

Sounds like a good plan man! That 6g dose will definitely let you experience tripping! I think I can count the number of doses I've had that were over 5g on one hand, but they sure all taught me alot. I've found the about 3.5-4g is my go to now.


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## propertyoftheUS (May 9, 2013)

Whats up Matt? It's been a while since I posted on here, well back when you first started talking about Mycology, anyway had a few questions concerning your recent bulk failure to see if I could figure out if its something that could have possibly been prevented, or if something needed to be done differently.
1. What ratio did you mix your spawn to your sub?
2. How did you pasturize your straw? 
3. How long? 
4. Was it only straw used for the sub?
5. What room did you spawn to bulk in? 
6. How was your room prepared sanitation wise? 
7. What was the depth of your mixed sub including the casing?
8. How long was the sub exposed before it was covered?
9. What did you cover the pans with? 
10. How many holes were poked in the lid? 
11. How big?
12. What temp did you let your sub colonize?
13. Did you wait @ least 5 days to crack the lid to check progress?
14. How long did you let it colonize?
Thats about all I can think of off hand, but if I have any more realitve questions that I think of after the post I'll drop ya another line. As always man Good Luck, and Great Vibes!!


----------



## technical dan (May 10, 2013)

Javadog said:


> As to modified agar formulas TD, that was brilliant. Along a similar vein,
> I have used the water from a wood-chip soak for the agar used with
> a wood-lover.
> 
> JD


I can't take any credit for that idea I saw it in violent's tek but I can vouch for its effectiveness. I think it will also reduce the colonization times when I inc. with water suspensions from agar since the myc. will not need to switch foods as it will no longer have to go from potato dextrose and honey to grains.

I think soak water is how I'm going to make agar from now on. It is also easier and faster to mix than the homemade tek, just 4 parts soak solution and 1 part agar stir for a minute and spoon into jars/ plates. Now if only I could find cheap agar agar in my area the health food stores here have it for 10 dollars for an ounce it's fucking ridiculous (it is just non-nutritive plant matter after all ......fuckin economics and such ). It would prob be better to just order a pound or some large amount online. 

I have knots on the casings of a tray and a jar both cubes, and my oyster jar is pinning still waiting for my first fruits. I've been using a whole pile of patience for this project, think my initial inc was at the end of february haha might (hopefully will) get faster as it gets warmer.... thinkin at you this week's cold snap. But once stuff is going I don't think it will be too difficult to develop a nice cycle to keep my FC and jars (of dry shrooms) full.

also unrelated I got my clw 200 watt led light last week so I finally have a big boy light runnin


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## Javadog (May 10, 2013)

One thing to keep in mind when modifying the standard agar formulas
is that these changes can and will affect how well the agar gels.

i.e. if you shoot for an acidic formulation (say you are growing the ghost fungi)
then you will want to increase the agar-agar you use, or you will find that
the dishes may set badly or not set at all (i.e. they will be runny)

Good luck,

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (May 10, 2013)

propertyoftheUS said:


> Whats up Matt? It's been a while since I posted on here, well back when you first started talking about Mycology, anyway had a few questions concerning your recent bulk failure to see if I could figure out if its something that could have possibly been prevented, or if something needed to be done differently.
> 1. What ratio did you mix your spawn to your sub? no idea
> 2. How did you pasturize your straw? boiled it in water for a couple min
> 3. How long? coup[le min at boiling
> ...



the bottom line was i didnt have the correct enviorment and setup to do a bulk sub like that...the house im growing them in is riddled with trich and all kinds of other contams....verry hard to do complex tek's there. i will be picking up on some more complex teks once i move the operation. 

ate a few shrooms last night.....felt nice.


----------



## polyarcturus (May 10, 2013)

this little miricle of life! i just dont understand. it was about 50% colonized when it got some MAJOR contamination, both bacterial and trich.

so i was like fuck ive heard of people using bleach to stop contams. so poured straight undiluted bleach in(store bought so probably 3% with a polymer surfactant(1%)) in carefully cracked the lid a small amount. shook the shit out of it. then cafully poured out the solution. put it in COOL like under 75 for a few weeks. came back to this! just a small bit of losing contam. pretty cool if you ask me! thought i would share.


pinning on agar. not sure what to do about fae. im pretty lax only 1-2 exchange a day where i crack the lid an inhale the air from within. some suggestions would be nice


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## Javadog (May 10, 2013)

The truth is that these fixes rarely kill all the contaminant or,
more importantly, it's spores. Common molds start sporulating
early, and then they sporulate as they go.

This suggests that you not try to use this as spawn for some bulk substrate.

The best approach might be to try fruiting it in vitro, as is. This is a cube, right?

Good luck,

JD


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## polyarcturus (May 10, 2013)

Javadog said:


> The truth is that these fixes rarely kill all the contaminant or,
> more importantly, it's spores. Common molds start sporulating
> early, and then they sporulate as they go.
> 
> ...


nah botha, your thinging into it too much, im just gonna bury that chunk under a little bit of soil an hope for the best. that thing useless, like a living paperweight i would never use it with any purpose in mind unless that was my last hope. but i might fruit it in vitro, but im not sure how to go about that.


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## Javadog (May 10, 2013)

That is the funny thing...you do nothing.

Many mushroom species will fruit straight from grain,
if left long enough. P. cubensis is especially good at this.

When I am wanting to fruit a brand new species of 
mushroom, I often wait until I see pins to put it into
fruiting conditions.

I did this with Gymnopilus dilepsis and found a huge number
of pins had developed before I noticed.



An outdoor patch is another great way to fruit contamed 
subs and grains.

Take care,

JD

P.S. This all being said, I cannot find any mason jars with fruits sticking out photos
but that is what it looks like. Get 100% colonization and cubes bust out.

P.P.S. I did find this old photo of some Mexi Cubes fruiting straight from grains:


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## RetiredMatthebrute (May 12, 2013)

G2g today then once i move i will be parting ways with growing at my friends house, i will leave him the necessary equipment and genetics to continue on with his adventure and it will end up being what he wants to put into it. i have already told him that it may be in his best intrest to downsize a bit and keep his grows small and simple. i will definatly be helping him out but what he gets will be his. I will start fresh in my own quarters and hopefully be able to setup a nice area i can do bulk subs again and be sucessfull


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## technical dan (May 15, 2013)

I think I am going to be picking my first flush today 

I'll probably come back later and throw up a cleaner pic right before I pick


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## Javadog (May 15, 2013)

Those are perfectly ready for consumption.

Congrats on the successful flush.

JD


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## Thundercat (May 15, 2013)

Congrats indeed, those look nice man! If you do take more pics see if you can get a lighter in for scale. Looks like it should be plenty for a couple trips(depending on size obviously).


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## technical dan (May 15, 2013)

thank you guys and everyone else who added to the experience along the way


The wet weight was 96.6 grams and I left a few pins alone to see if they grow up over the next couple days. I also placed a tissue isolate on to agar that will hopefully display clustering since I took it from a fruit that was in a cluster.


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## MJG420 (May 16, 2013)

technical dan said:


> thank you guys and everyone else who added to the experience along the way
> View attachment 2658302View attachment 2658303
> 
> The wet weight was 96.6 grams and I left a few pins alone to see if they grow up over the next couple days. I also placed a tissue isolate on to agar that will hopefully display clustering since I took it from a fruit that was in a cluster.


Nice man! I hope to be seeing somethibg similar around this time next week.


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## Thundercat (May 16, 2013)

Awesome man, decent flush nice looking mushies, more then enough to trip a couple times!


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## technical dan (May 16, 2013)

thank you. Sounds good MJG. TC yep more than enough for a couple trips, and there are some stragglers to be picked too. I don't have a good time to trip for several days but I will probably micro dose in the next couple. 

I also saw the first growth in jars knocked up with P. galindoi ATL 7, this is 3 days after the water suspension transfer this is from grain soak agar and was twice as fast as (cube water) from potato agar.


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## Javadog (May 16, 2013)

Nice flush. Do leave the pins, as they are your next flush.

Have fun.

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (May 16, 2013)

technical dan said:


> I think I am going to be picking my first flush today View attachment 2657173
> 
> I'll probably come back later and throw up a cleaner pic right before I pick


congrats on your sucess  enjoy the fruits of your labor


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## propertyoftheUS (May 17, 2013)

Hey Dan, nice flush man, are you planning on soaking your sub before you fruit it again? Ive always had better flushes with subs ive soaked, but it seems they usually contam after the 3rd flush with that being said the 2nd and 3rd flushes fruit more prolifically and I end up with more fruits out of fewer flushes


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## technical dan (May 17, 2013)

I misted it a bit but no I have not soaked it. do you add water to the tray or take everything out of the tray and put it in water?


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## Javadog (May 17, 2013)

Usually something is used to keep the sub from floating, and
the tub is filled with water. In monotubs people just slide dowels 
through the GE ports to hold it down. You can place a weight
on the sub but be careful as they can get loose, especially if
they are soaked too long. Go for a few hours, not the 24 hours
of PF-Tek's "dunk".

When I have a sub in a shallow tray, I just dribble water in until
the sub is kinda floating, and then hold the sub when I tip it up.

Good luck,

JD


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## technical dan (May 17, 2013)

kk sounds good JD I'll get on that tomorrow morning


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## aCiDjEsUs (May 22, 2013)

Been a while  how's everybody doing? 

Maybe you guys remember I knocked up some jars little bit over two months ago, and I finally decide to birth them, didn't know if anything will come up from this, so I did a nice dunk and roll, put them in a SGFC and this is what I got so far, they kinda seem to grow slow don't know lol...here are some pictures from a minute ago.


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## Javadog (May 22, 2013)

AJ, those appear to be pinning nicely.

...and the SGFC seems in order (holes in the bottom and top? 4" of perlite? ;0)

I expect that you are going to get a nice flush.

Good luck,

JD


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## aCiDjEsUs (May 23, 2013)

Hey JD Thank you, yes sir holes on six sides, 2" apart and yup 4"-5" of perlite on the bottom. Didn't think anything will come up from this cakes but so far so good.  I'll be posting more pictures in coming days, maybe I'll get something out of these cakes  

TC JD.


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## aCiDjEsUs (May 23, 2013)

JD, one more thing brotha. What's your take on misting the cakes directly? I'm misting and fanning like every two hours or so, but I'm misting/spraying them directly on to the cakes and the walls of FC.

I read different things, some say not to mist/spray them directly other say they do it with no problems, so what is your take on this?? 

If anyone has something else to add you're more then welcome haha


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## Javadog (May 23, 2013)

AJ, that is one of those maddening things that one never completely 
gets control of.....but something of a feeling for it does develop.

The first answer is that it depends on the species, and cubes are again
our friend, and are able to deal with slop on either side of perfect.

So, my answer is spray everything well, very well, until pins pop.
Fan often to keep CO2 down, but do not be afraid of hitting the cakes
directly.

Once I have pins, I will usually wet down the small pile of verm 
that I have on top of the cake, but I will try not to mist the young
fruits directly. At that point you want to spray the perlite and the
sides and inside-lid of the box.

The perlite should keep the RH good, for the most part.

Grit your teeth and be patient. This should only take a few days
to a week.

Good luck,

JD


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## Thundercat (May 23, 2013)

Are those albinos, they seem very white?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (May 23, 2013)

WOOOOOOOOOT 

nice job man im so glad you are going to end up with some fruits.


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## aCiDjEsUs (May 23, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Are those albinos, they seem very white?


Thunder yeah those are some Albinos A+, I had them in the jars for more then 2 moths.


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## aCiDjEsUs (May 23, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> WOOOOOOOOOT
> 
> nice job man im so glad you are going to end up with some fruits.


Matt I was about to throw them fuckers out, but I was like what the hell, I had all the stuff that I need it, I made my SGFC a while ago, so I birth them cakes and went away for a weekend and came back to this haha, I was liek WTF!? So I'm cooling next batch of jars as we speak, I still got a syringe left so I might as well use it.


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## technical dan (May 24, 2013)

Looks good acid theyre coming along.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (May 24, 2013)

aCiDjEsUs said:


> Matt I was about to throw them fuckers out, but I was like what the hell, I had all the stuff that I need it, I made my SGFC a while ago, so I birth them cakes and went away for a weekend and came back to this haha, I was liek WTF!? So I'm cooling next batch of jars as we speak, I still got a syringe left so I might as well use it.


im restarting my entire operation soon.


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## aCiDjEsUs (May 24, 2013)

technical dan said:


> Looks good acid theyre coming along.


Thx Dan, soon I'll be trying them out


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## aCiDjEsUs (May 24, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> im restarting my entire operation soon.


I'm good for now  I just knocked up 5 jars with some Chitwan, if anything comes up I'll be happy if nothing I'll be also happy haha.
Also got two autos going on day 35, I think they should be done in the next 8 weeks.


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## Javadog (May 24, 2013)

Well, a two month colonization does not necessarily mean a contam
though this is probably the most common cause.

It can take longer because the sub is too wet, too dry, and too compacted.

I look forward to some Victory Shots!

:0)

JD


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## aCiDjEsUs (May 24, 2013)

Hey guys any idea when would it be good time to pick those fruits? Here are some pictures from a minute ago.

I know I should pick the them before the veil breaks for max. pot. that's what I read. Should I wait for the caps to get more flatter, they seem to kinda grow on a slow side or maybe it's just me because I see the FC whenever I sit by the computer lol...but hell I know shit about this haha


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## Javadog (May 25, 2013)

The idea is that there is no more magic produced once 
they start to sporulate. So picking with veils intact ensures
max potency by weight.

People will wait for the caps to mature if they want prints.

You can wait until just after the caps open if you like, as 
that way you will know they are as large as possible.

Congrats!


----------



## Thundercat (May 25, 2013)

I suggest waiting until the veils are beginning to break and caps are opening like java said so you know they are as big as they are gonna get. The first time I harvested a flush I had no idea it was a day or 2 early, and that they were half the size they would be if I let them go!!! Until the second flush :facepalm:


----------



## aCiDjEsUs (May 27, 2013)

Thank You Guys!! I didn't know what to expect, so thank you for then answers. So here are some pictures of my fruits  

These just came from two cakes I still got three to go, I left the house for a night and came back to a nice mess in my FC, one of the shrooms dropped it spores  it's so amazing how all this works. So the mushies are drying on a rack as we speak, 12 more hours and their going to a air-tight box with some silica gel to finish them off.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (May 27, 2013)

nice man, im sure you will have a nice little trip on those babies


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## aCiDjEsUs (May 27, 2013)

Thx Matt!  let's just hope so, I think I'm going to try them at the wedding that I'm going to next week  last night I took some of my cookies to a party and they were a Big Hit lol everyone got some motherfucking buzzed up hahaha I was just standing there and laughing haha.


----------



## Thundercat (May 27, 2013)

Looks like they turned out good size for ya man congrats!


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## technical dan (May 27, 2013)

nice pics acid


----------



## canndo (May 28, 2013)

Kind of thrilling isn't it. you can't get hooked on eating mushrooms but you can get hooked on growing them - careful.


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## aCiDjEsUs (May 31, 2013)

Damn, all I got to say it was a NICEee little TriP  I ate some three days ago just to try them out, I had about 2g of dry shroomies on empty stomach at about 8:30am and by 9:15 I was tripping, didn't really had hard visuals, just some skips in time frames etc haha and when looking into the mirror my face was changing kinda like on acid. But the best part about it was when I left the house and went for a walk in a park FOK this Euphoria hit me so Hard I was like WoW felt so at peace with everything lol, and by 3pm I was back on earth and all good  so over all I must say it was a very pleasant experience tripping on my own shroomies.


----------



## Thundercat (May 31, 2013)

Awesome man thats what I like to hear!!


----------



## Javadog (May 31, 2013)

:thumbup:

Congrats!

JD


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## RetiredMatthebrute (May 31, 2013)

nice AJ glad you had a good trip. I lost all my jars to contam so i need to order more spores. not sure where im going to go to get them or what strain i will get but it wont be till i have everything setup[ again.


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## aCiDjEsUs (May 31, 2013)

Plus I forgot to add I was tripping by myself  

Matt that sucks sorry buddy.. I knocked up 5 jars on May 24th with some Chitwan and I got some nice white mycelium going yesterday in two jars and so far no contamination in the rest of them, now I know what to look for as far as smell goes haha when the jar goes bad you can smell that funky ass smell lol.


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## Thundercat (May 31, 2013)

Koh samoi!


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## technical dan (May 31, 2013)

^ I put some ksss spores on a plate earlier today...... hopefully it will be clean unlike the last new cube syringe I tried, it was labeled B+ but only grew trich


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Jun 1, 2013)

i will for sure look into that strain. i may also go with the GT's again just for ease of growth


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## technical dan (Jun 1, 2013)

I dont know that it is much/ any harder than GT it is still a cube. Whats your opnion TC? I know you have grown this variety.

Im going to knock up a couple containers with a (multigenetic) plate that was started from GT mushroom tissue, from my tray and see how it works


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## Thundercat (Jun 1, 2013)

I didn't have the SS variety, just the classic KS, but mine were extremely easy to grow. They are currently still my favorite mushrooms I've grown or eaten, and have taught me the most in life. I also really liked a strain I grew called Ereal, I was told by the fellow I got the print from that they were supposed to be a russian strain. I've never seen them for sale or writen up about.

The KS will educate you!!!!!!

From my understanding the KSSS is only supposed to be even better then the classic. I would by all means suggest trying it! I think Java (or maybe it was canndo) has grown them too, but I can't remember maybe he'll chime in.


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## Javadog (Jun 2, 2013)

KSSS are a more stabilized strain, derived from the standard KS.

I have grown them, but did not eat them. They are often very
short, squat fatties, and they can be hard to print as a result.

I have heard them referred to as stronger than many strains.

....why isn't any growing the dick-of-death, PE? (or PEU or APE?)

If you want a strong cube, there is no stronger than I know of.

If you guys worked with agar, I might just send out a round of prints myself.
(They are at least a year old and ought to be used...but I will
not vouch for them to go straight into a syringe...agar ought to be used)

Take care,

JD


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## Thundercat (Jun 2, 2013)

Some day I'll open the door to agar in my life, but its gonna take more time I'm afraid. Should prints only be stored for a year or 2, my prints I've got are all over 4 years old now, but have never been opened since I made them. My KS printed very nicely, some were shorter, but all the caps opened well, and dropped very dark prints for me. They weren't real large prints, only about an inch or so a piece, but more then enough spores for good syringes (if they are clean). I wanted to grow the PE but at the time couldn't get spores or prints for it.The guy I got my first prints from that got me started (sent me KS, south americans, Ereal, and Burmas) even had the PE, but he couldn't get his to print and lived to far away for me to get an LC from him. I love the KS, and the Ereals for the fast growth, ease of growth and printing, and the trips were always fantastic , the SA's had a great visual trip but didn't yield well or grow as good. The burmas were almost a complete flop, I got enough off them for like 2 trips and they weren't anything special.


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## MJG420 (Jun 2, 2013)

Javadog said:


> KSSS are a more stabilized strain, derived from the standard KS.
> 
> I have grown them, but did not eat them. They are often very
> short, squat fatties, and they can be hard to print as a result.
> ...


 I plan to grow the penis envy(aka PE) in the very near future now that I have the basics down, almost got them when I ordered my spores in the first place. 

I have also been looking at getting into the agar side of things as well and would love to take you up on your offer of a print or two to get started.


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## technical dan (Jun 2, 2013)

I'll prob give PE a shot when im more confident with my ability to change/ hold fruiting conditions, as they are a bit more picky correct? I am using an automated terrarium and I would like to learn to dial in the humidity and also see if I have or get adequate FAE I had some fuzzy bases on my tray last time. The FA goes in via aquarium pump. 
But JD I do happen to do some work on agar


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## Javadog (Jun 2, 2013)

Well, I will have to set something aside. I have 1000s of prints, as I do 
not deal, trip only when conditions warrant, and so have always had waaaay
more than I know what to do with.

I will add TD and MJG to the list. This will likely be a one-time thing, as I am
getting hammered IRL. :^/ The cost of a stamp is negligible, and I am happy to share.

JD

P.S. PE is hard only because it is slow. This is also a good theory as to why they
are stronger, and they are. They do not drop spores so they can be hard to share.


----------



## MJG420 (Jun 2, 2013)

Javadog said:


> Well, I will have to set something aside. I have 1000s of prints, as I do
> not deal, trip only when conditions warrant, and so have always had waaaay
> more than I know what to do with.
> 
> ...


 Thinking after this crop I will be use to slow! These things seem to be taking forever to mature! Lmao. Im guesing the PES Hawaiian strain I am growing is a derivative of the PE?


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## Javadog (Jun 2, 2013)

No, PESH, and PESA, both grow like typical cubes....PE is even slower.

Slow is the real challenge. All it takes is having to maintain consistent
fruiting conditions for long periods of time to make a breed/strain difficult
to fruit.

This is the principal reason that the mexicanae can be difficult, and Semperviva, etc.

Take care,

JD

P.S. TD, the only PE prints that I ever got were from PE6...and that was only
from those fruits that showed that hybrid's Texan heritage. (look up PE6 for a read)


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## MJG420 (Jun 2, 2013)

Javadog said:


> No, PESH, and PESA, both grow like typical cubes....PE is even slower.
> 
> Slow is the real challenge. All it takes is having to maintain consistent
> fruiting conditions for long periods of time to make a breed/strain difficult
> ...


Interesting, getting ready to go see if I can pick a handful of pins to give em a try. I look forward to the challenge and will for sure be coming to you for advice on how to start my agar.


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## Javadog (Jun 2, 2013)

Well, I am afraid that I will not be much help with the potential 
stepping stones into agar work. 

I went right for the Light Sabre: A Laminar Flow Hood

I know that people have successfully poured sleeves of petris 
using just a Still Air Box....but I am betting that I'd catch contams. :0)

A good hood can cost $400 to make and half again that to buy, 
but get one and you can do anything anywhere. (I work in the
corner of a dusty garage)

I will certainly assist where I can.

JD


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## canndo (Jun 2, 2013)

I worked for years with a glove box but..... I wouldn't give my hood up for anything.


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## Javadog (Jun 3, 2013)

I used one as well, for a while, but had my hood before I moved to agar.

They are fine for syringe making, or noc'ing up jars too.

I would even noc a dish. ....it is pouring a stack of 25 (well two, 12 and 13)
that would likely be very hard.

You are the official SAB-POC. :0)

JD


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## technical dan (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks JD I would certainly appreciate a print no matter the variant... or species. 

MJG I use a glove box and grain water agar, which is the liquid that grains have hung out in as they hydrate/ prep with agar agar. There is also an easy grocery store tek: http://www.shroomery.org/9427/Grocery-Store-Agar-Tek IME the grain water mix is better. I also use quarter pint jelly jars rather than petri dishes (I didnt want to order anything). Then once you have something that you like on agar water suspension transfers/ inoculations are easy and do not need to be done in a glove box IME anyway.

and when you cut up a plate and transfer it to a jar(s) the colonization happens quickly


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## Javadog (Jun 3, 2013)

Well, TD, feel free to remind me if I have not PMed you within a couple
of weeks time frame....that ought to be long enough for me to get down
to the garage to rummage through the spore bank. :0)

*and when you cut up a plate and transfer it to a jar(s) the colonization happens quickly *

This is very true: no spore germination, or fungal sex, to wait for.

JD


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## technical dan (Jun 3, 2013)

hehehe sounds good big ups JD


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## MJG420 (Jun 3, 2013)

technical dan said:


> Thanks JD I would certainly appreciate a print no matter the variant... or species.
> 
> MJG I use a glove box and grain water agar, which is the liquid that grains have hung out in as they hydrate/ prep with agar agar. There is also an easy grocery store tek: http://www.shroomery.org/9427/Grocery-Store-Agar-Tek IME the grain water mix is better. I also use quarter pint jelly jars rather than petri dishes (I didnt want to order anything). Then once you have something that you like on agar water suspension transfers/ inoculations are easy and do not need to be done in a glove box IME anyway.
> 
> and when you cut up a plate and transfer it to a jar(s) the colonization happens quickly


 Sounds so much simpler!


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## technical dan (Jun 5, 2013)

yeah I like using agar I start spores/ cultures on it too rather than directly into jars or spawn


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## Javadog (Jun 5, 2013)

This is why agar rules. No better reason.

Knowing that you have a clean start is precious.

JD


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## Devils love (Jul 15, 2013)

You all alive? ehh..i popped in once mentioning the fact that i was moving out and going to try to devote some of my resources at the new place to trying out the mycology field...well anyhow i finally got moved out..new job..you know priorities..and hell i picked up smoking budds again so thats a plus xD but ehh just was curious how the vibes were treating you all?


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## technical dan (Jul 15, 2013)

mine are good .... going through redesigns at the moment.


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## Thundercat (Jul 15, 2013)

I'm not growing but good vibes here!


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## MJG420 (Jul 15, 2013)

ehh had a bit of a rough night last night....other than that all good here


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 12, 2013)

whats up fuckers? anyone still around in here?

i havent been on the webz in a whil;e just got it hooked back up tonight....how is everyones grows going? been long enough now where everyone should have worked out the kinks....or at least most of them. i know im still working a few kinks out still but for the most part have a decent system working.....nothing amazing or anything but it is working for my needs...

next step now is a full sized refer incubator for fruiting. 


anyways hope to chat with all of you again in the near future...sorry for my absence just havent had the webz...



ps.....missed you guys


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## Thundercat (Nov 12, 2013)

Hey bud I'm still around. I still havn't grown and mushies lately but got some good acid a couple weeks ago that has made for some fun times.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Nov 12, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Hey bud I'm still around. I still havn't grown and mushies lately but got some good acid a couple weeks ago that has made for some fun times.


Damn HOW I miss a good hit of acid, last time I had some it was like 10 years ago...can't get any around here or I just don't know the rite people


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## Thundercat (Nov 12, 2013)

Hehe it was kinda something I stumbled on, but the guy it came from knows his shit, and said they were tested and legit. It felt just like the last time I got "acid" but maybe a little stronger.


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## aCiDjEsUs (Nov 12, 2013)

Thunder buddy if you don't mind me asking how much did you payed for a hit?


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## aCiDjEsUs (Nov 12, 2013)

Shit I forgot to answer Matt question hahahah

Yeah Matt we still here


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 12, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Hey bud I'm still around. I still havn't grown and mushies lately but got some good acid a couple weeks ago that has made for some fun times.


i havent done acid..npt shure if i want to lol



aCiDjEsUs said:


> Shit I forgot to answer Matt question hahahah
> 
> Yeah Matt we still here


dam, sweet glad this thred didnt get forgotten. i just had a 2 oz ( dry ) flush. im tuning in on it now, no bullshiot just perilite and vermiculite. still with the corn!!


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## technical dan (Nov 12, 2013)

yep still around and aboot. I've got some going and am/need to play with fruiting methods. Got some jars of ATL7 for stones and just saw myc. growth on my P. mex plates another stone producer so Im going to transfer and noc and such... get some more stone jars going. 

good ta see you around again RTB


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## Thundercat (Nov 12, 2013)

Man Matt I thought Acid was gonna be some crazy ass thing..... its not. Perhaps if you do huge amounts, or its some really strong doses but so far my mushroom trips far outweigh the acid trips in crazyness. The acid is alot of fun though, one hit is not bad, 2 is a great time in my book. I'm told this stuff was tested at 100 micrograms per hit, and I got them for $10 a hit.


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## VTMi'kmaq (Nov 12, 2013)

Took me awhile to get everything grasped but my first attempt with the teacher will be journaled soon. such a sweet way to keep me busy.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 13, 2013)

i have some updates up soon. glad to see everyone is around still.


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## canndo (Nov 13, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Man Matt I thought Acid was gonna be some crazy ass thing..... its not. Perhaps if you do huge amounts, or its some really strong doses but so far my mushroom trips far outweigh the acid trips in crazyness. The acid is alot of fun though, one hit is not bad, 2 is a great time in my book. I'm told this stuff was tested at 100 micrograms per hit, and I got them for $10 a hit.


I have posted this before. Acid, even in large amounts lack that frantic quality that mushrooms can impart. I once had a little sport's car, I don't remember the name - bug eye'd. The engine had been modified but nothing else. I was crazy fast, but the breaks were weak and the steering sloppy, I was exposed to the elements, it was very low to the ground - fun to drive but frightenting as well. THat is mushrooms.

I also had a brand new sun yellow cadillac, power everything, leather interior, plush, powerful and comfortable - that is LSD.

You can crash either one but the first is downright nuts from the start.

Mushrooms are in many ways far more powerful than LSD because they have that manic, disorienting, unpredictable quality to them that no other hallucinogen I've ever taken has - with the possible exception of DMT.


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## Thundercat (Nov 13, 2013)

great input canndo I love hearing from you guys that are far more experianced then I. I really like the way you compared them,, that seems like a very good way to look at it.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 13, 2013)

alright so i said i would have an update. 

i had to move my mushroom grow and start all over from a comletely non sterile spore print i had mad just fucking around. took me 2 full cycles to get a jar that was completly uncontaminated.

my first flush yeilded almost 2 oz of dried to a crisp mushroooms (used a dehydrator) 

i am currently working out the kinks in fruiting and will be building another incubator just for my fruiting bins and bulk sub (yes i am going to attempt bulk sub again) 

right now my fruiting chambers consist of a plastic tote with a few holes drilled into them. a layer of perilite on the bottom, a layer of 4 mil plastic and then a layer of vermiculite and colonized corn. this seems to be working adequatly but definatly not the best. 

i have one tub that just started pinning yesterday. it has been subjected to contam because i didnt wait untill my jars were 100% colononized to fruit so the corn kernels that were not inhabited by mycelium ended up infected with some green mold. im not going to chuck them but i will only let them ride for one flush.

i have a total of 24 jars that are incubated. all of them are growing. one thing i have noted is that mycelium growth is significantly faster in the jars with holes in the lids opposed to the jars that have no holes. i decided not to put holes in the lids of a fresh case of jars i bouight to try and get rid of the tinfoil on top (kinda a pain in the ass extra step) but i believe the air exchange in the jars with holes is promoting faster growth. ill take some pics later and show you guys. 

my plans in the future is to go down to small 7qt totes and run 24 of them at a time. 1 1/2 pint jar per tote and a bulk substrate. to do this i will need 2 more incubators...one with a light and one dark....one for fruiting and one for allowing my mycelium to colonize the bulk sub (not sure what im going to use for a bulk sub yet) tried straw do not like the amount of work involved with chopping it up. i was actually wondering about using sawdust....iu need to research it a bit. any input on that would be great.

anyways thats all thats going on right now.. will update a couple pics tonight and a couple more in a couple days when my pins start to look like something. 

im having a great deal of luck with my grain to grains...i find with the 1/2 pint jars i dont get nearly as many contams as with the full pint jars...not sure why this is but its just a observation i have made. 


on a side not i have been getting into eating a fair amount of mushies lately. my last trip was aborts and it came on slow but stayed around for almost 6 hours!!! far longer than any other trip. lots and lots of nice visuals but didnt lose any functionality (have had a couple trips wind me on the couch staring at the floor for 2 hours)


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 13, 2013)

heres some pics...take note to the jars with foil on the top and the ones without...

i would say this is pretty conclusive evidence that holes in the lids of the jars and tinfoil on top does accelerate the growth of the mycelium since every jar was prepared and G2G at the same time from the same jar


----------



## Impman (Nov 13, 2013)

even on large doses of LSD it is possible to drive (don't do it kids!).....but the car feels like it is in a river of mud on shrooms....


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 13, 2013)

oooooh going through my pics i see a contam jar


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 13, 2013)

Impman said:


> even on large doses of LSD it is possible to drive (don't do it kids!).....but the car feels like it is in a river of mud on shrooms....


i drove on a 1/8th of mushies the other night. i find that as long as you dont let your mind wander your good.....sometimes easier said than done lol


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## Impman (Nov 13, 2013)

I can get super focused and be all bad ass...then I realize Im being serious and focus and that cracks me up back to hysterics


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 13, 2013)

i just stay focused as long as i have to to do what i need to do then go back to wandering the realm lol.


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## Budzilla420 (Nov 13, 2013)

New to the thread, pretty experienced in diy mycology projects. Havent gone far through the thread, but the pics on this last page have me wanting to ask some questions and give some advice. 

First off i notice you have foil on top of your grain jars and the ones not foiled have no ventilation for gas exchange. Gas exchange for growing mycelium is important. Not having ventilation will slow growth and can cause the mycelium to stall growth, giving any contaminates a chance to take hold. Look into making breathable lids with inoculation ports. You can do it cheap by using tyvek and RTV silicone, or you can get wheel filters and inoculation ports online to make it more professional looking. Both work well. Keep foil off so they can breathe.

Another thing is it looks like youre keeping them in a mini fridge. In my experience light is very beneficial to growing mycelium, some people will argue this point, but ive found it to be true. I leave my jars sitting near a window so they can catch some light.

In the pic of the tubs, is the big one your SGFC? Or is it your bulk tub? If its a SGFC, holes should be on all 6 sides, spaced 1 inch apart. If its a bulk tub (monotub), you should use holes 1 1/2" in diameter. 1 on each side a little under the handles, and 2 on each large side just a hair over your expected substrate level. Look up monotubs for more info.

Sorry if anything I said was already stated on another page, i havent read that far into this thread. Best of luck!


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## canndo (Nov 14, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> heres some pics...take note to the jars with foil on the top and the ones without...
> 
> i would say this is pretty conclusive evidence that holes in the lids of the jars and tinfoil on top does accelerate the growth of the mycelium since every jar was prepared and G2G at the same time from the same jar
> 
> ...



Why on earth are you not shaking those? You would be done by now.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 14, 2013)

cant have them growing too fast now  they seems to be coming along just in the time i need them too. these pics are only 5 days after g2g...


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 14, 2013)

Budzilla420 said:


> New to the thread, pretty experienced in diy mycology projects. Havent gone far through the thread, but the pics on this last page have me wanting to ask some questions and give some advice.
> 
> First off i notice you have foil on top of your grain jars and the ones not foiled have no ventilation for gas exchange. Gas exchange for growing mycelium is important. Not having ventilation will slow growth and can cause the mycelium to stall growth, giving any contaminates a chance to take hold. Look into making breathable lids with inoculation ports. You can do it cheap by using tyvek and RTV silicone, or you can get wheel filters and inoculation ports online to make it more professional looking. Both work well. Keep foil off so they can breathe.
> 
> ...


yeah i stated that the jars with no holes were growing much slower...i will be correcting in future but right now i fear making holes will only aid in adding contams. as far as ditching the foil....it seems to be working well so far and every time i have had a jar with even the smallest hole in the foil it has got a contam. my sucess rate is over 90% 

as far as leaving them in the sun...not really as option. i keep my house at 65 and even cooler in basement. the mini fridge is a temp controlled incubator set at around 78-82


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## VTMi'kmaq (Nov 14, 2013)

canndo said:


> I have posted this before. Acid, even in large amounts lack that frantic quality that mushrooms can impart. I once had a little sport's car, I don't remember the name - bug eye'd. The engine had been modified but nothing else. I was crazy fast, but the breaks were weak and the steering sloppy, I was exposed to the elements, it was very low to the ground - fun to drive but frightenting as well. THat is mushrooms.
> 
> I also had a brand new sun yellow cadillac, power everything, leather interior, plush, powerful and comfortable - that is LSD.
> 
> ...


Ha HA what a fucken analogy canndo lmao, precise too imvho. When there's fungus amongus the symbiotic cycle is complete!


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## Budzilla420 (Nov 14, 2013)

What i meant by the jar lids is to make breathable, injectable lids. Or even just breathable if you do g2g. Just get some tyvek (either tyvek painters suit or a tyvek mailing envelope) and some high temp RTV silicone. Punch a decent sized hole (1/4" will do), put a thin bead of the silicone around it and slap a square of tyvek on top. The tyvek allows air exchange in the jar and is tight enough to keep contams out.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 14, 2013)

yeah that sounds like a pretty good idea...i will look into it because im tired of tinfoil lol


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## Budzilla420 (Nov 14, 2013)

Heres a pic of one of my sets where you can see what im talking about. Little white squares are the tyvek and the little red dots are self healing injection ports.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 14, 2013)

yeah, i know what your talking about. i dont inject so i dont really need the ports but i do need some GE


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## canndo (Nov 14, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> cant have them growing too fast now  they seems to be coming along just in the time i need them too. these pics are only 5 days after g2g...



Growing mushrooms is a race, you try to encourage the mycelium you are interested in, to grow as quickly as possible, that makes contamination less likely - at least for a time anyway.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 19, 2013)

well its not a great flush but here


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## Thundercat (Nov 19, 2013)

Mmmmm mushies look yummy!!


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## Impman (Nov 19, 2013)

I have never grown mushrooms before ...but wouldn't it be a good idea to combine all those jars into one big container? that seems time consuming and not a good use of space....


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## Thundercat (Nov 19, 2013)

You gotta start out with smaller containers that you can easily preasure cook. Also I'd rather loose one or two jars to to contaminations then a whole big tub.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 20, 2013)

Impman said:


> I have never grown mushrooms before ...but wouldn't it be a good idea to combine all those jars into one big container? that seems time consuming and not a good use of space....





Thundercat said:


> You gotta start out with smaller containers that you can easily preasure cook. Also I'd rather loose one or two jars to to contaminations then a whole big tub.



TC took the words right out of my mouth....

the reason i use smaller jars is because i have a smaller pressure cooker so i can fit 8 1/2 pint jars at a time. also i have a verry crude way of doing my G2gG transfers so i do get contams...better to only lose a 1/2 pint than it is to lose a much larger quantity and have to start over. it also increases my odd of having at the verry least 1 good contam free jar to do my g2g that way i dont have to start all over.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 28, 2013)

debating a eighth tonight....hmmm


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 28, 2013)

anyone around?


----------



## Thundercat (Nov 28, 2013)

Just got on for a few, I say eat em if your not over stuffed with turkey!! 

I've had some acid lately but no good shrooms.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 28, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Just got on for a few, I say eat em if your not over stuffed with turkey!!
> 
> I've had some acid lately but no good shrooms.


bummer. i have about 10g dry shroom..gotta work tomorow


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 28, 2013)

plus i have been heavily drinking so they wont go down easy


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## Thundercat (Nov 28, 2013)

Ew ya drinkking and shrooms don't mix for me any more. I did that one time, and payed out both ends of my body that night.


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 28, 2013)

thundercat said:


> ew ya drinkking and shrooms don't mix for me any more. I did that one time, and payed out both ends of my body that night.


tmi roflmao !!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 28, 2013)

i think imma pack some dissolve pill casings with some ground shroomz


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 28, 2013)

so...i ate a 1/8 hahha

im gonna try a totally different casing method for me. usin potting soil i will try and do 2x bulk sub. if it works dam god bless me if it dosent =...well ill live


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## Javadog (Nov 28, 2013)

Soil will not need to be a thick casing layer at all.

It can be pasteurized and will keep beneficials.

One upside is that mold is not usually as aggressive
on soil. You might want to add a bit of lime to sweeten it.

Good luck,

JD

P.S. Still dealing IRL...I will travel, and get my myco-lab
back up and running, in time. Enjoy yourself!


----------



## Thundercat (Nov 28, 2013)

Enjoy the ride there buddy!


----------



## RetiredMatthebrute (Nov 28, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Enjoy the ride there buddy!



thanks man...im starting to feeeeeeeellllll gooooood


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Dec 10, 2013)

got some pinning going on....side pinning mostly from where the light leaked into my FC but the rest is starting as well...the soil "casing" i sued seems to work pretty good..all kinds of hyphai (spelling?) are poking through the top. i ended up removing the blanket from the FC a little earlier than i wanted due to the side pinning but still seem to have a nice even spread of mycelium on the top of the soil.


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## technical dan (Dec 10, 2013)

dropped PE agar into a few jars. I'm trying a stealth tek posted on another site atm. waiting for a p. mex plate to grow out then transfers to big jars. My room is cold now that its winter so most of the cultures hang out top of the shelf with my lights on the bottom of it in my veg cab

GL with the soil one of the containers I'm trying to fruit right meow is a soil casing other is coco verm ...... cant find jiffy mix so far this season so looks like it could be coco/verm for a bit. .....need to trip soonish....


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Dec 11, 2013)

heres some pics....just alot of pinning around the edges where light leaked..hoping the rest of it starts pinning up good soon!!!

and getting ready for another batch. all jars have holes in lid and are tinfoiled up


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## technical dan (Dec 11, 2013)

errrrrrgggghhh my 1 mex plate that looked clean had bacteria show up so I made some transfers from it and an MS plate I want a clean culture so I can inoculate and start the real waiting. anybody watching got tips for transferring away from bacteria?


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## Javadog (Dec 11, 2013)

Take the smallest transfer you can.

Be prepared to do this again. Even a tainted transfer can
offer a clean front to work with.

Bacteria are easier to get away from than molds....usually.
There are (practically legendary, but I swear that I have 
seen this) either certain species of bacteria, or certain situations
where otherwise common bacteria where the bacteria will literally
develop along with, and *on*, the fungi. 

In situations where it seems impossible to get a clean culture,
then you can try a "hot pour". This is where you pour hot agar
over the infected dish. The fungi will be the first to reach the
new agar surface. Make a shallow transfer of this new growth.

That is all that I have tried. A friend once suggested heating a
metal tube (think cigar tube) and then pressing it down onto the
agar (everything presumed sterile). Then if you make a transfer
into the circle made in the agar, then only the fungi will be able
to cross over the "moat". 

Good luck,

JD


----------



## canndo (Dec 12, 2013)

Dep nding on the size and numbers if colonies, I have been sucessful in excising the contamination from the dish, just bE sure you don't use a hood, javadogs cigar method is novel and should work well. I have used the two dimensional "race" method but never with hot agar, plopping a cool disk on top and collecting from the edge of the plate when it shows up. And I have had situations where the bacteria seemed inherent in the mycelium itself, any small bit came with contamination.


----------



## technical dan (Dec 13, 2013)

thanks for the replies. The bac smear appeared to be over top of the myc and on the rest of the plate.....don't know why it took me so long to see it. 

The hot pour method is immediately accessible to me so I'll try that tomorrow. So I just thought with the moat, would a bridge be similar? so cut out a portion of agar from a clean plate leaving two separated areas so that the myc will cross the gap first. Maybe transfer to the edge of the plate furthest from the gap then store tilted with that being the lowest point..... can bacteria climb?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Dec 14, 2013)

a few more pics if anyone is still interested in my teachers...did another G2G today knocked up another 24 1/2 pints.


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## Javadog (Dec 14, 2013)

technical dan said:


> thanks for the replies. The bac smear appeared to be over top of the myc and on the rest of the plate.....don't know why it took me so long to see it.
> 
> The hot pour method is immediately accessible to me so I'll try that tomorrow. So I just thought with the moat, would a bridge be similar? so cut out a portion of agar from a clean plate leaving two separated areas so that the myc will cross the gap first. Maybe transfer to the edge of the plate furthest from the gap then store tilted with that being the lowest point..... can bacteria climb?


The first thing to do is to just transfer away from the contams if you can.

Anything else is a long shot, so restart from spores or a tissue culture if you can.

JD


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## technical dan (Dec 14, 2013)

im thinking the syringe was the source of the contam. I started four plates with it and all have the same bacterial slime, the one I had thought was clean was a transfer from a MS plate when did not appear to have bacteria in the area the transfer wedge came from. 

I tried a hot pour on a couple plates. There are maybe two more that have wedges to see if the myc and bac will separate so I can just transfer away.


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## Javadog (Dec 14, 2013)

Ah yes, I had issues with a slew of syringes from one of the
better regarded vendors. It happen. 

I had to fight, hard, for several of the strains, but I got them.

It took a few hot pours, of a few dishes, to get the harder ones.

Good luck,

JD


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## canndo (Dec 14, 2013)

I also have gotten badly contaminated syringes. From several different vendors. I have up as there were mote contams than legit spores. Green mold and bacteria.


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## Thundercat (Dec 15, 2013)

Love seeing some pins Matt!! They starting to get bigger yet?


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Dec 15, 2013)

sounds like when i restarted my grow i used a spore print that was anything but sterile. i didnt use agar but i just kept on taking the best jar from the lot and doing my best to weed out the contams. still not contam free nor will i ever be since i just dont have the facility to support a 100% sterile enviorment. would definatly like to give agar a try if for anything just to play around with it and watch the mycelium grow on it.


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## canndo (Dec 15, 2013)

RetiredMatthebrute said:


> sounds like when i restarted my grow i used a spore print that was anything but sterile. i didnt use agar but i just kept on taking the best jar from the lot and doing my best to weed out the contams. still not contam free nor will i ever be since i just dont have the facility to support a 100% sterile enviorment. would definatly like to give agar a try if for anything just to play around with it and watch the mycelium grow on it.



You do not need 100 percent sterile conditions in order to get pure mycelium and monocultures. Hell, even the better class clean rooms aren't sterile. Check out my sticky for some clues. I have gotten pure mycelium in some very dirty old basements - get a teqnique down, keep air flow or drafts down and you will get there.


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## Impman (Dec 15, 2013)

Dont be shy with the lysol.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Dec 15, 2013)

Thundercat said:


> Love seeing some pins Matt!! They starting to get bigger yet?


harvesting some of the side mushies tomorow. i ended up having a light leak and got alot of side pinning so they will be done before the first official flush even starts. lots and lots of pins though should be a nice first flush.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Dec 15, 2013)

i work in a dirty basement. i get decent results..but given my work area im bound to get a couple contams in my jars doing G2G transfers. if i knock up 25 jars and have to chuck 4 im doing pretty shitty. usually ony chuck around 2 1/2 pints out of 25-30 jars


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## polyarcturus (Dec 16, 2013)

Agar is the way to go. You can do a lot with it and a little goes a long way. Looking good rmtb!

And agar substrate is super easy to make you can buy all the stuff needed in the grocery if you wanted. I had some very successful grows from agar, free from contamination. So give it a go, it's just as easy as making grain jars.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Dec 16, 2013)

ill have to look inbto it poly!!! BTW nice to see you around, i stopped by your BrandX thread the other day to catch up a bit...hope you can get back to breeding soon m8


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## technical dan (Dec 16, 2013)

its easier than prepping jars no soaks or simmers to deal with and ya see everything growing on it.
Nice to see you around here poly
~25ml of grain water and .5g of agar agar is how Ive been doing mine recently. I just let em set in the PC/I dont pour .....its real simple


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Dec 17, 2013)

home from a long day at work and i need to go pick some shroomz but im tired. its a tough life lol...harvest around 7-8 g (dry) yesterday and prob another 7-8 tonight.


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## technical dan (Dec 17, 2013)

still waiting for mature fruits ......pins been poppin up


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Jan 2, 2014)

gonna make a tea tonight..might get on and babble later.


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## Thundercat (Jan 2, 2014)

Have fun man!


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## technical dan (Jan 2, 2014)

have a nice trip matt


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Jan 2, 2014)

down the hatch she goes...

4 tea bags 3.5g of mushrooms, a tblsp of honey, a tbls granulated sugar and a splash of milk and the beverage was almost decent...man i hate the taste of these things...


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## technical dan (Jan 2, 2014)

I'm thinking some lemon teked truffles with mate tea some time in the next 10 days or so


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Jan 3, 2014)

trip was ok, tripped pretty hard for about an hour then came dowm. watched season 4 of walking dead and watched my crumpled bathmat move around on the floor like there was a mouse under it.  stayed up till about 4 am and back up at 6 am..

dont think ill be doing any more mushrooms till the weather warms up, dont like being house bound and once i get into that comfy zone curled up in bed i cant move. i do have some pretty vivid halucinations in the form of daydream style visuals that are extremely realistic..but its still kinda lame....drank the tea last night didnt feel much coming on from it so decided to toss on a show on TV thinking i made the tea wrong or just too light....within about 15 minutes after hopping into bed i was lost in a world only disney and pixar could dream up..an hour later it was over for the most part...

will be fun to eat a good dose outside in the spring and just walk and enjoy the scenery of the new life coming to action...one of my best trips so far was a long walk on a warm autum day taking in the beauty of the foliage.


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## RetiredMatthebrute (Jan 10, 2014)

small update... averaging about 1oz dry per batch...

the fruits in the pic is like 5th flush...just let the fc keep going since it wasnt contamed and still producing. 

im done though  a few friend caught wind i was growing them and want to start a business so im just gonna take a couple prints and be done for a bit, fruiting mu last batch now and will not be cooking any more corn  sucks because i really enjoy growing these but i am all set with traffic.


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## technical dan (Jan 12, 2014)

thats unfortunate to hear matt. 

made my tea a week or so ago and went for a bike ride and had a nice time. 

Going to try find some cultures to isolate with this next round Im starting up.


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## Thundercat (Jan 12, 2014)

Man that sucks, people ruin everything!


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