# Best way to combat pythium and root rot in all hydroponic growing methods.



## Vonkins (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm keeping this very simple. Get u some hth pool shock. Mix 1 gram/ gal of water. This is your shock solution. Then add this at 3 ml/ gal of water in the res. Boom!!!! There u have it no more rot. Cloners will start working 100% for you also if u apply solution to them. YOUR WELCOME.


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## PetFlora (Apr 28, 2013)

That's a band-aid. Keep your rez temps within 65-75 + a good amount of air stone bubbles and you will not need band-aids

*You're* welcome


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## machead (Apr 28, 2013)

am keeping my temps in that range with plenty of air bubbles coming from 4 airstones, yet the build up of green type gunk in my res is driving me mad.

how do i stop this?


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## PetFlora (Apr 28, 2013)

Hmmmm. Tell me what water source- municipal, well, rain barrel..?


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## superstoner1 (Apr 28, 2013)

Green means algae and you have light leaks. Rot is slimy and brownish.


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## diggabyte (Jan 7, 2014)

The environmental protection agency (EPA) recommends 0.125 teaspoon (0.6ml) per gallon of water to sterilize it safe enough for drinking. 

I have a 50-gal air-tight drum that I use to hold pure RO water. I accidentally left the lid off for a couple days and it started to get some funk smell. Rather than dump the whole thing, I decided to experiment and try the bleach approach. I added 0.5ml / gal NORMAL CONCENTRATION household bleach. Keep in mind, 'CONCENTRATED' forms of bleach will need 30% less. 

Anyway, added to my 50-gal RO drum, let it sit for a day, then took the lid off overnight to allow the chlorine to evaporate. The result: the holding tank no longer smelled like shit nor chlorine and killed whatever was in there. I went on to use that treated RO water through the course of my DWC grow without any issue.

As some have suggested, tap water can help with root rot for this very same reason - tap water contains chlorine. If you use RO water in grow, but want to achieve the same sanitizing effect as tap water, you can add household bleach... but be very, VERY conservative (0.25ml / gal). You wont be drinking your res. But your plants will. You just want enough chlorine to oxidize the organic matter in the water. Add too much, and you'll kill the plant in record time.


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## Dirty Jerz (Jan 8, 2014)

Physan 20, 1ml/10 gal water.

Fin.


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## greetingsearthling19 (Jan 17, 2014)

I used to get the slime big time. With pool shock I can run 90 degree temps in an E-Z cloner with 100% success. pool shock for the win.


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## ohnothimagin (Feb 21, 2016)

Physan 20 is a life saver! I had my first introduction to the "White Snot" recently. I'd never encountered it before and it's damn scary. Physan 20 took care of the problem. I'll keep it close in the future. This is the only product that will get rid of the problem.


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## rob333 (Feb 21, 2016)

ohnothimagin said:


> Physan 20 is a life saver! I had my first introduction to the "White Snot" recently. I'd never encountered it before and it's damn scary. Physan 20 took care of the problem. I'll keep it close in the future. This is the only product that will get rid of the problem.


man u do no this thread is near on 4 years old


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## J Henry (Feb 27, 2016)

A fungal outbreak and the crisis presents a real emergency and high stress for the farmer when all hope and luck fails.
The fungal disease is ubiquitous, an opportunist, is damaging and can be terminal. It's everywhere, it's like air.

Everybody knows that preventing a fungal opportunist outbreak is always better than fighting a full blown outbreak, the aggravation and the real $ cost of the cure any day.
The easiest most logical solution to prevent an outbreak is to simply keep your nutrient DO Supersaturated (100% - 130% DO) in the nutrient solution continuously and inhibit the fungal growth, That sounds really simple, ain't nothing to it .
But, if your DO is low in your nutrient solution and root zone... get ready because you can bet that you probably will have a fungal outbreak coming to your farm sooner than later. Many growers have absolutely no idea if their nutrient DO is low until it's way to late and symptom present. Most growers have never tested their DO with a DO Meter. Many have no idea what a DO Meter is. Wait till you see symptoms and the outbreak crystal clear.
I like the YSI 550A DO Meter, nut they are not free.
J


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## twistedwords (Feb 27, 2016)

Here is an easier way, go to petco or petsmart and get pondzyme for 15 dollars, both are carrying on the shelves now. Use this from the beginning, in fact you can even do something with it most don't even know. When you transplant from soil to hydro just apply some pondzyme to the water and no shock as the bacteria in the pondzyme protects the roots, pretty cool stuff. 

If you have a real problem and you didn't use pondzyme and the root rot is bad then go to petco or petsmart again and get some erythromycin or Melafix and wait for around 5 days and it will inoculate the roots and kill the bacteria. Then apply pondzyme to keep the roots stable, a two regimen and you will be Ok.


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## jronnn (Feb 28, 2016)

J Henry said:


> A fungal outbreak and the crisis presents a real emergency and high stress for the farmer when all hope and luck fails.
> The fungal disease is ubiquitous, an opportunist, is damaging and can be terminal. It's everywhere, it's like air.
> 
> Everybody knows that preventing a fungal opportunist outbreak is always better than fighting a full blown outbreak, the aggravation and the real $ cost of the cure any day.
> ...


i didnt even think they had the meters. so if i have hydroton in a 1gal pot what would i just stick the prob in the side of the pot to make sure the water hitting the roots is supersaturated? and how could the DO be 130%? i would think it could only go up to 100%, then again I'm not sure how the dissolved oxygen works in detail
edit: god damnn thats an expensive meter


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## roseypeach (Feb 28, 2016)

superstoner1 said:


> Green means algae and you have light leaks. Rot is slimy and brownish.


this^^^^


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## roseypeach (Feb 28, 2016)

Vonkins said:


> I'm keeping this very simple. Get u some hth pool shock. Mix 1 gram/ gal of water. This is your shock solution. Then add this at 3 ml/ gal of water in the res. Boom!!!! There u have it no more rot. Cloners will start working 100% for you also if u apply solution to them. YOUR WELCOME.


i have had pools. shock is supposed to kill everything organic in the water, leaving crystal clear chlorinated water....

plants are organic, as are roots. this is a !!! to me, as i can see it could clear contamination, but how will it not affect the plants/roots? not saying it's not a cool idea to test, just genuinely curious...

edit: cat of curiosity posting under my better half's account, forgot to logout/in...


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## J Henry (Feb 28, 2016)

jronnn said:


> i didnt even think they had the meters. so if i have hydroton in a 1gal pot what would i just stick the prob in the side of the pot to make sure the water hitting the roots is supersaturated? and how could the DO be 130%? i would think it could only go up to 100%, then again I'm not sure how the dissolved oxygen works in detail
> edit: god damnn thats an expensive meter


Yep, they really do have meters that test DO Saturations. Just turn the meter on, stick the probe in the water and read the results, nothing to it.

The crisis comes when the meter tells you that you’re your nutrient solution is very low on oxygen (DO Sat 40%). The Beneficial’s are suffocating and the dreaded fungus is coming because fungi thrived in low oxygen environments. They are opportunist pathogens and low oxygen is the opportunity they are waiting for. Problems causes by low DO's can be predicted before the root rot attacks.

Don’t feel bad. Most people are in the same boat as you and have no idea how much dissolved oxygen in in their nutrient solution, have no idea how to measure it, no idea what a DO Meter is or how much they cost… that is the norm.

But many have seen a DO chart on the internet and if the chart says water saturates with oxygen at 65F nutrient temp, well, the chart said it right there… who in the world needs a meter anyway when you have the chart in the net?

There are many ways to supersaturate water with dissolved oxygen, 1 way is use a “cone” or a “packed column.” You can make a homemade “packed column” with PVC and some glue. They work real good.

J


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## jronnn (Feb 28, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Yep, they really do have meters that test DO Saturations. Just turn the meter on, stick the probe in the water and read the results, nothing to it.
> 
> The crisis comes when the meter tells you that you’re your nutrient solution is very low on oxygen (DO Sat 40%). The Beneficial’s are suffocating and the dreaded fungus is coming because fungi thrived in low oxygen environments. They are opportunist pathogens and low oxygen is the opportunity they are waiting for. Problems causes by low DO's can be predicted before the root rot attacks.
> 
> ...


I'm actually running a sterile res with h2o2. only thing in my water (i hope) is nutes, h2o2 and PH^ an I've knows about dissolved water and how the colder water is the more oxygen it can hold even when i tried finding charts just to get an idea to get a better understanding and i noticed all the charts showed mg/liter or ppm, which obviously depends on temp and other variables I'm sure, do you know what the ideal ppm or mg/liter is for DO or do you only know the %? i want to get a meter now but 900 bucks is a bit out of my range at the moment (just spent 1k on a laptop and 250 on a r.o system) but now I'm lost again lol i have no idea what the cone or packed column are


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## jronnn (Feb 28, 2016)

roseypeach said:


> i have had pools. shock is supposed to kill everything organic in the water, leaving crystal clear chlorinated water....
> 
> plants are organic, as are roots. this is a !!! to me, as i can see it could clear contamination, but how will it not affect the plants/roots?


well i guess the same could be said when people use bleach or chlorine or h2o2 in their res. i run a sterile res where i ONLY have h2o2 (29% @ 6ml/gal) and my nutes in the water. i was actually thinking about trying pool shock cause i was having an algae issue and i assume its a lot cheaper to use than h2o2 and probably needs to be applied way less often


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## J Henry (Feb 29, 2016)

jronnn said:


> I'm actually running a sterile res with h2o2. only thing in my water (i hope) is nutes, h2o2 and PH^ an I've knows about dissolved water and how the colder water is the more oxygen it can hold even when i tried finding charts just to get an idea to get a better understanding and i noticed all the charts showed mg/liter or ppm, which obviously depends on temp and other variables I'm sure, do you know what the ideal ppm or mg/liter is for DO or do you only know the %? i want to get a meter now but 900 bucks is a bit out of my range at the moment (just spent 1k on a laptop and 250 on a r.o system) but now I'm lost again lol i have no idea what the cone or packed column are


Actually H2O2 and chlorinated water both are a great antimicrobials and disinfectant, kills microbes by the millions, even kills the beneficial microbes. But why would you want to kill the Beneficial’s with the routine application of these chemicals or suffocate them (lack of oxygen)? Beneficial’s are, well, beneficial to the eco system healthy.

Yes, I do know the difference between DO % Saturation and DO Concentration expressed as ppm or mg/L:

PPM and mg/L means the same thing, just 2 different names… maybe like TORR and partial pressure.

Oxygen saturation (symbol SO2) is a relative measure of the amount of oxygen that is dissolved or carried in a given medium. It can be measured with a dissolved oxygen probe such as an oxygen sensor or an optode in liquid media, usually water. The standard unit of oxygen saturation is percent (%).

The expression "1 ppm" means a given solute exists at a concentration of one part per million parts of the solution. One ppm is one-millionth of a gram per gram of sample solution. Expressed another way; 1 ppm is one gram of solute per million grams of sample solution. In case of DO Concentration, the solute is 1 very specifically gas, elemental O2 (not air, a mixture of many different gases) and the solution is fresh H2O.

Google Search is free. It's is a very powerful too and you’re always only 1 click away from a having a Eureka moment of discovery.

Assuming is quick, easy and fast (like assuming there is always plenty of oxygen in the air, just keep the water temp low and the DO Saturation chart is cheaper than a DO Meter and the DO chart is always dependable and always correct) don't worry be happy,
Assuming can cause serious problems that are often fatal not reversible… If you don’t know and guess or happen to assume wrong, expect issues, possible fungal infestations, dead plants, dead Beneficial’s and that awful slime on the roots and in the bottom of the box.

When crop health and crop failure is at stake, it’s always better to know than to assume or guess. Science trumps luck and hope.

J


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## Budley Doright (Mar 2, 2016)

Wow a resurrected thread from way back huh lol
^^^^^I don't get the % when speaking in amounts of DO either but I'm relating it to something like relative humidity, so the amount it can hold to what it is holding, which is wrong obviously. But besides that, I got the rot in a spray system with no standing water and timed sprayers which I thought was pretty hard due to the amount of O2 available. Turns out that my actual root zone was getting above 70 on a consistent basis. Lowering the temps in both the root zone and Res, plus adding hydroguard has improved things tremendously from this (2nd pic) to this (1st pic), I have recently replaced the hydroguard with OregonismXL. Just a note that pool shock, bleach, and H2O2 did not seem to cure but did hold it at bay.


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## J Henry (Mar 2, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> View attachment 3621398 View attachment 3621392 Wow a resurrected thread from way back huh lol
> ^^^^^I don't get the % when speaking in amounts of DO either but I'm relating it to something like relative humidity, so the amount it can hold to what it is holding, which is wrong obviously. But besides that, I got the rot in a spray system with no standing water and timed sprayers which I thought was pretty hard due to the amount of O2 available. Turns out that my actual root zone was getting above 70 on a consistent basis. Lowering the temps in both the root zone and Res, plus adding hydroguard has improved things tremendously from this (2nd pic) to this (1st pic), I have recently replaced the hydroguard with OregonismXL. Just a note that pool shock, bleach, and H2O2 did not seem to cure but did hold it at bay.


Yep, you’re right. It’s from way back and is still as true and correct as the day it was written and published.

Prevention is cheaper and much less stressful than curing the disease. Plant health always suffers the most from the disease even upon recovery, weeks are lost.

Don’t feel alone, what happened to you is very common and well within the norm for the majority of farmers.

The low oxygen problem and paradox how to insure there will be no low oxygen problem has been around a while, but no is listening and the fix is often ignored as history demonstrated every day.

The “rot” is cause by an opportunist fungal pathogen, the fungi is ubiquitous, it’s everywhere all the time and it usually does not exhibit until the environment becomes oxygen deficient (hypoxic). Fungi (Pythium and other fungal species) thrive in low oxygen hypoxic environments. Clearly you had a low oxygen issue.

You mentioned, “Turns out that my actual root zone was getting above 70 on a consistent basis.” 70 what? What does 70 mean?

Waiting for the disease crisis to happen, then acting on disease crisis intervention: How much time did you waste from the time you realized you had a rot problem to the time toy applied the chemicals, days/hours? How much did all those chemicals and stuff cost? And how many hours of stress has this disease caused for you?

“Just a note that pool shock, bleach, and H2O2 did not seem to cure but did hold it at bay.” That’s all these chemicals did?

You might add this note too: That slimy brown/black glob of goo in the bottom of the res box is fungus, dead decaying plant material and dead microbes. All those harsh chemicals most probably also killed every Beneficial too along with every other microbe in the solution and root zone. Plus you entire system including water pumps and pipes are well contaminated with fungi too.

It’s easier and far less aggravating and expensive to prevent this disease problem than cure it after the fungi establishes itself and thrives in your DWC.

J


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## bravedave (Mar 2, 2016)

Promix
Water to run-off
Dump run-off 1/2 hour after watering. 
Root rot....never.


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## J Henry (Mar 2, 2016)

bravedave said:


> Promix
> Water to run-off
> Dump run-off 1/2 hour after watering.
> Root rot....never.


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## J Henry (Mar 2, 2016)

Like a “one-a-day” multivitamin.


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## bravedave (Mar 2, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Like a “one-a-day” multivitamin.


No. Sorry. I guess i'm talking soil-less and you are talking hydroponic.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 2, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Yep, you’re right. It’s from way back and is still as true and correct as the day it was written and published.
> 
> Prevention is cheaper and much less stressful than curing the disease. Plant health always suffers the most from the disease even upon recovery, weeks are lost.
> 
> ...


The 70 is 70 degrees Fahrenheit. So how could it be lack of O2 in a timed spray setup with no standing water, that's what I don't get. Also I didn't have any brown goo in the Res other than what's in the bottom of the net pot. And yup it was a huge setback and if was a commercial op it would be a giant money pit lol.


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## J Henry (Mar 2, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> The 70 is 70 degrees Fahrenheit. So how could it be lack of O2 in a timed spray setup with no standing water, that's what I don't get. Also I didn't have any brown goo in the Res other than what's in the bottom of the net pot. And yup it was a huge setback and if was a commercial op it would be a giant money pit lol.


Setbacks and expensive is always relative to how much "skin in the game" you got. 70F aerated water does not insure safe oxygenation, Here' s where a DO Meter is vital to test the water and actually determine much DO is really present. Without testing the solution with a DO Meter, you are guessing and hoping at very best.

Maybe this piece will help shed more light.

Mechanical Treatment https://www.hydroculture.co.uk/Blog/What-You-Need-to-Know-About-Pythium-(Root-Rot)/

"As water becomes warmer, it contains less dissolved oxygen. Furthermore, if your hydroponic solution rises above 20 degrees Celsius, the warmth will nurture bacterial growth in the rhizosphere (root zone) – and these bacteria will then consume what little oxygen is available. Unlike bacteria, *Pythium thrives in anaerobic (oxygen-depleted) environments." *


"A hydroponic system which is kept too warm, therefore, becomes a perfect environment within which Pythium can multiply. By utilising a mechanical water chiller, you can keep your entire system well-oxygenated and discourage the growth of both Pythium and warmth-loving bacteria. Maintaining your system at a temperature below 20 degrees is one of the most natural, straightforward methods of ensuring its health."

[Air and Water temperature seriously limit oxygenation capability for this author perception of oxygenation techniques.]

The point of the preventive exercise is keeping the hydroponic solution focused on, “well-oxygenated.” This author says, “Well-oxygenated” hydroponic water temp 20C (68F) = 100% DO saturation, 9.1 ppm DO Saturation. Well-oxygenated seriously discourages both Pythium and warmth-loving bacteria.

Then the writer states that keeping solution system temp below 20C is ONE of the most natural, straightforward methods of ensuring its [plant] health. Ensuring it health means keeping the system “well-oxygenated.”
This writer does not mention the oxygen demand requirements for Beneficial microbes, "well-oxygenated also being vital for aerobic microbial health and survival.

This is 1 opinion and "ONE" way, but certainly this is not the best way to ensure excellent continuous safe oxygenation for all the plants and Beneficial microbes that consume their fair share of oxygen. Safe well-oxygenated meaning continuous 100% DO saturation 24/7 sustaining a minimum of 9.1 ppm DO concentration… or greater.

So if 9.1 DO concentration and 100% DO Saturation is considered "well-oxygenated" and great for preventing and inhibiting fungal outbreaks and maintaining plant health…

What do you think about this?
Increasing the water temp to 26.7C (80F), increase oxygenation to15 ppm DO Concentration and increase DO Saturation to 187% DO Supersaturation? This would be far better than "well-oxygenated." This would be called "Super-oxygenated" and a powerful fungal inhibitor. Imagine how this much oxygen might affect plants and Beneficial colonies.

Here’s a DO calculator to play with water temp, barometric pressure, ppm DO concentration and % DO Saturation. http://www.waterontheweb.org/under/waterquality/DOSatCalc.html

J


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## twistedwords (Mar 2, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Setbacks and expensive is always relative to how much "skin in the game" you got. 70F aerated water does not insure safe oxygenation, Here' s where a DO Meter is vital to test the water and actually determine much DO is really present. Without testing the solution with a DO Meter, you are guessing and hoping at very best.
> 
> Maybe this piece will help shed more light.
> 
> ...



Someone who understands it here besides sales reps. Yes many forget about the barometric pressure and even the gravity of the water. Then the real kicker is the saturation level and that is the key.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 2, 2016)

twistedwords said:


> Someone who understands it here besides sales reps. Yes many forget about the barometric pressure and even the gravity of the water. Then the real kicker is the saturation level and that is the key.


I think we all understand it lol. Just most ignore it or think what they have is fine, like me. I had no noticeable issues for many years then wham. Yes I knew I was on the edge of it happening but failed to act. And without adding pure oxygen I think most growers are limited to controlling temps and yes air to a point, temps being the key for most growers I think. Having a DO meter would be nice but IMO not necessarily needed for hobby grows. Now that I am able to control temps things are going very well. I have asked many times though, how would having roots suspended in air not supply enough O2? I thought I had that covered but obviously not lol.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 2, 2016)

My Res temps are at a constant 65-66 now that I've built a chiller and things are just peachy.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 3, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Setbacks and expensive is always relative to how much "skin in the game" you got. 70F aerated water does not insure safe oxygenation, Here' s where a DO Meter is vital to test the water and actually determine much DO is really present. Without testing the solution with a DO Meter, you are guessing and hoping at very best.
> 
> Maybe this piece will help shed more light.
> 
> ...


So if allowing Res temps to get to mid seventies (at sea level) is there any reference material that would tell newbs how much air to add to the Res in say cfm that would ensure adequate air? I had a look at DO meters and there are a few cheap ones and lots of pricey ones lol. After researching this thing lots I have come to the conclusion that keeping my temps at 65 ensure a happy root system and plenty of growth. At that temp are beneficials even necessary? I guess it depends on the amount of DO in the water. I still don't get that I didn't have enough air when my roots were hanging in air for the most part lol. Honestly if you are watching your plants it's pretty obvious when root issues start by what the leaves are showing I think. Also I think guys that are running air pumps have issues getting the water to circulate in the middle of the root ball itself, leaving stagnate DO Depleted water to just sit in there. I actually have concentrated on building systems that don't require air stones and my present one is the one I started with and it seems to work very well. It uses basically a water fountain in the root chamber, shooting water at the lid causing a huge spread of sprayed water. The cycle is set for 15/15 but I have ran it 24/7 with good results as well. At 24/7 it never drains and roots are flooded all the time. Perhaps I'll try and raise temps incrementally on my next run and see where the most vigorous growth occurs, hard to believe it could get better


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## J Henry (Mar 3, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> So if allowing Res temps to get to mid seventies (at sea level) is there any reference material that would tell newbs how much air to add to the Res in say cfm that would ensure adequate air? I had a look at DO meters and there are a few cheap ones and lots of pricey ones lol. After researching this thing lots I have come to the conclusion that keeping my temps at 65 ensure a happy root system and plenty of growth. At that temp are beneficials even necessary? I guess it depends on the amount of DO in the water. I still don't get that I didn't have enough air when my roots were hanging in air for the most part lol. Honestly if you are watching your plants it's pretty obvious when root issues start by what the leaves are showing I think. Also I think guys that are running air pumps have issues getting the water to circulate in the middle of the root ball itself, leaving stagnate DO Depleted water to just sit in there. I actually have concentrated on building systems that don't require air stones and my present one is the one I started with and it seems to work very well. It uses basically a water fountain in the root chamber, shooting water at the lid causing a huge spread of sprayed water. The cycle is set for 15/15 but I have ran it 24/7 with good results as well. At 24/7 it never drains and roots are flooded all the time. Perhaps I'll try and raise temps incrementally on my next run and see where the most vigorous growth occurs, hard to believe it could get better


Air and oxygen are two different gases. You can pump all the air you like, but keep in mind that it is vital to insure minimal safe oxygenation for the plant and microbial eco systems, the limiting factor of oxygenation using air is the low oxygen concentration (20% O2) in air? Really does not matter how much air you pump, you will never get more than 20% O2 whether you pump 5 cfm or 5000 cfm. Ask any doctor, RN or welder and they all know that air, aeration is no substitute for oxygen. Many people and mag writers really believe air and oxygen are the same gas.

Some say Beneficial’s are important, others say don’t waste the money. Everyone says safe nutrient DO levels are important in DWC, most say air and chilling the water will provide and guarantee all the oxygen necessary (safe-oxygenation). But very few farmers have ever tested the solution to actually see what the DO Sat really is. Most DWC farmers have absolutely no idea how to even test the DO Sat in their nutrient solution. Most totally rely on what a DO Chart predicts bases on water temperature. When the DO chart predicts and says water temp 68F, the water saturated with 9 ppm DO so keep the temp at 68F and expect there will be plenty of DO... to keep everything alive and healthy and then they really hope there will be no outbreak of the root rot fungi. And when and if the rot breaks out you can bet the DO was very low making oxygen conditions ideal for an outbreak. The fungal symptoms pop up, the crisis is clear and the race is on to try and kill the rot and salvage what ever is left or just trash it and start a new crop.

DO Test – this may work: http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=dissolved+oxygen+test+strips&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=82160079912&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8316780698129678292&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_715224upoa_b

Having enough oxygen is vital for all aerobic specie, oxygen must be available continuously in sufficient concentrations and volumes to satisfy the oxygen demand of the specie. Man… without a steady supply of enough oxygen… in 2 minutes, lips and nail beds turn blue, another 30 seconds pass, neck and belly turn blue, another 30 seconds, cellular brain damage begins, another minute or so - do not resuscitate because brain damage is severe. Without the O2 things turn to bad quickly_. _

_“_I still don't get that I didn't have enough air when my roots were hanging in air for the most part lol…” Plenty of air does not insure plenty of oxygen, air is not oxygen.

On observations… when you see the symptoms, it’s very late in the game, the crisis had already begun and the plant root tissue is necrotic (rotting).

Dissolved oxygen is transported to the roots in water. If water does not circulate through the roots, stagnation/DO depletion is the results and this happens quickly. One minute the DO may be safe, stagnations occurs, plants and microbes consume available DO and you know what happens next.

Air stones occlude, water fountains need water pumps, air stones need air pumps, chillers chill water and all have electrical and operational cost… as for oxygenation, it really makes no difference because the limiting oxygenating factor for air stones and fountains is the air itself.

Here’s an interesting piece written 6/2007:

Dissolved Oxygen, oh my - https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=75568

J


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## rkymtnman (Mar 3, 2016)

use bleach. chlorine will kill anything and everything and doesn't care what level of DO your nute solution is at. no need for a DO meter and to pump O2 into your res.


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## J Henry (Mar 3, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> use bleach. chlorine will kill anything and everything and doesn't care what level of DO your nute solution is at. no need for a DO meter and to pump O2 into your res.


You are absolutely right... a total chemical kill will do it. Then a fresh start.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 3, 2016)

J Henry said:


> You are absolutely right... a total chemical kill will do it. Then a fresh start.


constant chemical dosing of chlorine will not only kill it but also keep it from ever appearing.


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## J Henry (Mar 3, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> constant chemical dosing of chlorine will not only kill it but also keep it from ever appearing.


Chlorine is a killer for sure.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 3, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Air and oxygen are two different gases. You can pump all the air you like, but keep in mind that it is vital to insure minimal safe oxygenation for the plant and microbial eco systems, the limiting factor of oxygenation using air is the low oxygen concentration (20% O2) in air? Really does not matter how much air you pump, you will never get more than 20% O2 whether you pump 5 cfm or 5000 cfm. Ask any doctor, RN or welder and they all know that air, aeration is no substitute for oxygen. Many people and mag writers really believe air and oxygen are the same gas.
> 
> Some say Beneficial’s are important, others say don’t waste the money. Everyone says safe nutrient DO levels are important in DWC, most say air and chilling the water will provide and guarantee all the oxygen necessary (safe-oxygenation). But very few farmers have ever tested the solution to actually see what the DO Sat really is. Most DWC farmers have absolutely no idea how to even test the DO Sat in their nutrient solution. Most totally rely on what a DO Chart predicts bases on water temperature. When the DO chart predicts and says water temp 68F, the water saturated with 9 ppm DO so keep the temp at 68F and expect there will be plenty of DO... to keep everything alive and healthy and then they really hope there will be no outbreak of the root rot fungi. And when and if the rot breaks out you can bet the DO was very low making oxygen conditions ideal for an outbreak. The fungal symptoms pop up, the crisis is clear and the race is on to try and kill the rot and salvage what ever is left or just trash it and start a new crop.
> 
> ...


Very cool read! Thanks J starting to understand this better and yes lots of conflicting stuff out there nice to clarify as opposed to saying do this or that lol


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## ttystikk (Mar 3, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Very cool read! Thanks J starting to understand this better and yes lots of conflicting stuff out there nice to clarify as opposed to saying do this or that lol


I'm interested in hearing more about your root zone watering system. I don't like airstones either, and I run RDWC with active cooling.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm interested in hearing more about your root zone watering system. I don't like airstones either, and I run RDWC with active cooling.


I'll try to get a couple of pics tty. But basically it's the stacked tote setup with a 395 GPH pump in the lower tote (100L) when the pump is on it shoots a fountain of water into the upper tote that hits the lid and creates quite a bit of spray. There is a ebb and flow fitting to allow water to get 4"" deep. When pump shuts off water drains through flush pump outlet as well so no standing water. It's an ebb and flow with a powerful fill pump . I've done variations of this setup since starting but still have root issues, can't stop those bastards lol. Again I'll get some pics tomorrow when I clean out the roots from the drain lol. I am retiring the spray nozzles, to many issues .


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 4, 2016)

Also tty thanks man!!! It was you that convinced me to finally get of the shitter and build a chiller, best thing I ever did, can't believe the difference in plant health. Thanks again!!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 4, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Also tty thanks man!!! It was you that convinced me to finally get of the shitter and build a chiller, best thing I ever did, can't believe the difference in plant health. Thanks again!!


You're very welcome!


----------



## twistedwords (Mar 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm interested in hearing more about your root zone watering system. I don't like airstones either, and I run RDWC with active cooling.



Most efficient way in RDWC is to not use any airstone. You simply use the waterfall effect on the return line into your controller bucket, then in the controller bucket buy a pond pump 80 GPH is fine or even lower as long as it has the venturi attachment and presto the venturi will aerate the water and keep the water agitated. You could also use a powerhead from a fish store, yes the same ones aquariums use to oxygenate the water as this has a built in venturi plus it has a flume on it so you get the best of both worlds. The pond and aquarium market has all of this figured out. This will keep the water at ear maximum levels of DO depending on your location and the barometric pressure for the day.


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## J Henry (Mar 4, 2016)

twistedwords said:


> Most efficient way in RDWC is to not use any airstone. You simply use the waterfall effect on the return line into your controller bucket, then in the controller bucket buy a pond pump 80 GPH is fine or even lower as long as it has the venturi attachment and presto the venturi will aerate the water and keep the water agitated. You could also use a powerhead from a fish store, yes the same ones aquariums use to oxygenate the water as this has a built in venturi plus it has a flume on it so you get the best of both worlds. The pond and aquarium market has all of this figured out. This will keep the water at ear maximum levels of DO depending on your location and the barometric pressure for the day.


Actually the best ambient air this world, our world has to offer always contains 80% N2 and 20% O2. A few aquarium venders have heard of and know about dissolving to much (air) nitrogen into the water, Supersaturating aquarium fish water with dissolved nitrogen causes gas bubble disease, aquarist commonly call the disease "pop-eye."

Question:

In your opinion, why do you think that pumping air through an air stone is not as efficient oxygenation as using a waterfall or a power head /air venture rig to entrain air into a flow of water, air used for the sole purpose of oxygenation?

Ambient air, whether the air is at sea level or at 15,000 ft elevation on a mountain, or in a SCUBA tank 500 feet below the surface of the Pacific Ocean contains 80% N2 and 20% O2.
J


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## twistedwords (Mar 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Actually the best ambient air this world, our world has to offer always contains 80% N2 and 20% O2. A few aquarium venders have heard of and know about dissolving to much (air) nitrogen into the water, Supersaturating aquarium fish water with dissolved nitrogen causes gas bubble disease, aquarist commonly call the disease "pop-eye."
> 
> Question:
> 
> ...



Do you want my opinion or scientific fact? I am going with scientific fact with a venturi device as a air stone does nor venturi does not inject any oxygen in the water. The venturi however will agitate the water with air as it passes through the venturi device so it happens instantly, then when the bubble rise from the venturi into the surface of the water further agitation from water happens again, then with the flume in happens a 3rd time. So you get 3 times the amount of agitation compared to one time of agitation from a air stone, hence more efficiency and more agitation of water to air surface.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 4, 2016)

^^^^ with my setup I did start out with air pumps and stones as well as using the method I use now and soon realized it was unnecessary, and my PH was way more stable. I also drilled a hole in the output nozzle of the pump, 3/16 on a 60 degree angle, that shoots another stream up to the surface of the main Res. Until I switched to spray nozzles I never had issues. But by chilling the water my plants have shown more vigour and growth is phenomenal. Now I'm using one pump, no ph fluctuations and great plants ...... So far lol.


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## J Henry (Mar 4, 2016)

twistedwords said:


> Do you want my opinion or scientific fact? I am going with scientific fact with a venturi device as a air stone does nor venturi does not inject any oxygen in the water. The venturi however will agitate the water with air as it passes through the venturi device so it happens instantly, then when the bubble rise from the venturi into the surface of the water further agitation from water happens again, then with the flume in happens a 3rd time. So you get 3 times the amount of agitation compared to one time of agitation from a air stone, hence more efficiency and more agitation of water to air surface.


Please, let me be crystal clear this time, I ask for your opinion, not your perception of scientific facts... sorry you misunderstood. Let's begin again.

And your scientific point is ---- what?

You say, *“I am going with scientific fact with a venturi device as a air stone does nor venturi does not inject any oxygen in the water.”* You might want to fact check this one because air contains a little bit of oxygen, 20% O2 and this will dissolve in water albeit any O2 does not dissolve well in water.

***So what’s your point for this 3 phase aeration rig if it doesn’t dissolve oxygen into the nutrient water nor maintain minimal safe continuous oxygenation 24/7/months?

Stop, relax and focus… This is about oxygenating RDWC nutrient water, insuring that low oxygenation does not happen thus inhibiting outbreaks of Pythium fungal opportunist caused by low-oxygen environments. This is about preventing fungal outbreaks by maintain 100% DO saturation in nutrient solution.

You say, “So you get 3 times the amount of agitation compared to one time of agitation from a air stone, hence more efficiency and more agitation of water to air surface.”

I’m missing something here.

***What’s is your point for this 3 phase agitation?

***Are you trying to say that this the point of this 3 aeration run (triple agitation: running air through an air stone, air venture, rising air bubbles in water) you end up with a total of 60% oxygen that is going to instantly dissolve in the water? Air contains 20% O2 X 3 runs = 60% O2.

I hear your scientific facts and now I would like to hear your opinion.

***What will, “more efficiency and more agitation of water to air surface” really going to do?

Thanks for explaining this to me better so I can better understand what you are trying to accomplish with this 3 phase aeration-agitation rig.

J


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## twistedwords (Mar 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Please, let me be crystal clear this time, I ask for your opinion, not your perception of scientific facts... sorry you misunderstood. Let's begin again.
> 
> And your scientific point is ---- what?
> 
> ...


I don't need you condescending shitface attitude first of all so you can stop right there troll.

It was already explained to you about Venturi injection. If you need more clarification google venturi injection in hydroponics. It will clarify your shit attitude. I am not your slave so go research it yourself.This is your game and I am not playing it. so fuck off.


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## J Henry (Mar 4, 2016)

twistedwords said:


> I don't need you condescending shitface attitude first of all so you can stop right there troll.
> 
> It was already explained to you about Venturi injection. If you need more clarification google venturi injection in hydroponics. It will clarify your shit attitude. I am not your slave so go research it yourself.This is your game and I am not playing it. so fuck off.


I'm so sorry you're having such a bad day, hope you get to feeling better tomorrow or Sunday and can clean up a little. Bless you son.
J.


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## twistedwords (Mar 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> I'm so sorry you're having such a bad day, hope you get to feeling better tomorrow or Sunday and can clean up a little. Bless you son.
> J.



then quit fucking up my day! BOY


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## ttystikk (Mar 4, 2016)

I don't have a venturi fitting but I could incorporate them into my system with extreme ease. Are they inexpensive? 

I have been using waterfalls in my RDWC for years. They replaced air stones and do a better job. 

I believe that using a spray nozzle on the waterfall end to actively jet the water down into the water's surface would also be beneficial by stirring the tub and gently agitating the roots, thus ensuring optimal temperatures, nutrient levels, pH and dissolved oxygen.


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## J Henry (Mar 4, 2016)

twistedwords said:


> then quit fucking up my day! BOY


Well, Potty Mouth...
You are no doubt really having a bad, bad day today, bet your dog is hiding under the bed. Some quiet time in a dark room, no noise, TV or radio helps calm nerves sometimes when you lose control of your emotions, cursing, name calling and tacky behavior in public.
2 blessings for you this time son.
J


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## AlphaPhase (Mar 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Actually the best ambient air this world, our world has to offer always contains 80% N2 and 20% O2. A few aquarium venders have heard of and know about dissolving to much (air) nitrogen into the water, Supersaturating aquarium fish water with dissolved nitrogen causes gas bubble disease, aquarist commonly call the disease "pop-eye."
> 
> Question:
> 
> ...


What is the most efficient and effective way to add do into a reservoir for ebb and flow, besides a air stone? For while I never used an air stone in the res, but recently added one. Is there anything else I can do, anything you recommend? I'm going to pick up a DO meter in the near future just for monitoring. How can I increase do and how much DO would be ideal? Thanks


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## AlphaPhase (Mar 4, 2016)

Oh, I'd like to add that I'd highly recommend a chlorine meter if using pool shock. Chlorine is a micro nutrition plants need, but they don't need a lot. Also, it's useless to use chlorine if you can't measure the ppm because it's a fine line what will kill bacteria and not harm the plants. I have used it before successfully, but now I strictly use it just for my ez cloners. Works well and I've not had a problem, but for growing I've switched to beneficial bacteria as it seems more practical.


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## J Henry (Mar 5, 2016)

AlphaPhase said:


> Oh, I'd like to add that I'd highly recommend a chlorine meter if using pool shock. Chlorine is a micro nutrition plants need, but they don't need a lot. Also, it's useless to use chlorine if you can't measure the ppm because it's a fine line what will kill bacteria and not harm the plants. I have used it before successfully, but now I strictly use it just for my ez cloners. Works well and I've not had a problem, but for growing I've switched to beneficial bacteria as it seems more practical.


Chlorine is a great killer chemical. Been used in wars as chemical warfare over 100 years too. Breath the gas and it makes you cough and causes instant pulmonary edema. 
Chlorine meters are way to expensive, but if you really need to test your chlorine concentration and you like "cheap," here's something for you that is a lot cheaper... 
Insta Test 6 Six-Way Chlorine Pool Water Test Strips - 50 Count @ Wally World $12 for 50 test - that's only $0,24 per test.
Your welcome
J


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## J Henry (Mar 5, 2016)

AlphaPhase said:


> What is the most efficient and effective way to add do into a reservoir for ebb and flow, besides a air stone? For while I never used an air stone in the res, but recently added one. Is there anything else I can do, anything you recommend? I'm going to pick up a DO meter in the near future just for monitoring. How can I increase do and how much DO would be ideal? Thanks


Now that’s a great question… sure, there’s a lot you can do that will insure safe oxygenation and seriously inhibit fungal outbreaks 24/7/months if you really think it's that important.

When your oxygen limitation is air or 20% O2, many on the forums say the ideal DO is 100% DO Sat and the only way you can get that is using air is to chill the water to 64-68F, that's it, that's all that is possible to do. I’m sure you have heard this too.

Others would approach this oxygenation issue directly, if a technical grower wants to increase his nutrient DO Sat at any water temp, he would certainly not hope and depend on 20% O2 (air), but would use 30-100% O2 gas. This does require thinking out of the box beyond the average mind set limitations.

Breaking this down to real simple, if you want higher DO, increase the source O2%. Oxygenation does not get any simpler than this and increasing the O2% greater than 20% works great every time, 24/7… that’s real scientific fact. Oh, and dissolve the O2 with a packed column, cone or oxygen -injector… forget the diffusers.

If a man is really thirsty and dehydrated, you would give him more water to drink, right?

If your plants need more oxygen, give them more oxygen, right?

Or, when your plants need more oxygen, give them more chlorine and buy a water cooler?

There ain’t nothing to insuring and maintaining safe oxygenation, this is just common since stuff.

J


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## Buzzzz (Mar 5, 2016)

*How did the Indians ever survive???*


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## Budley Doright (Mar 5, 2016)

Buzzzz said:


> *How did the Indians ever survive???*


Pretty sure most didn't .


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## rkymtnman (Mar 5, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Now that’s a great question… sure, there’s a lot you can do that will insure safe oxygenation and seriously inhibit fungal outbreaks 24/7/months if you really think it's that important.
> 
> When your oxygen limitation is air or 20% O2, many on the forums say the ideal DO is 100% DO Sat and the only way you can get that is using air is to chill the water to 64-68F, that's it, that's all that is possible to do. I’m sure you have heard this too.
> 
> ...


since you seem to be so smart and critical of others, please show us your pics of how you built an O2 infused DWC setup so we can critique it. enough with the hypothesis, let's see some EVIDENCE!! or is all this scientific conjecture on your part?


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## rkymtnman (Mar 5, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Chlorine is a great killer chemical. Been used in wars as chemical warfare over 100 years too. Breath the gas and it makes you cough and causes instant pulmonary edema.
> Chlorine meters are way to expensive, but if you really need to test your chlorine concentration and you like "cheap," here's something for you that is a lot cheaper...
> Insta Test 6 Six-Way Chlorine Pool Water Test Strips - 50 Count @ Wally World $12 for 50 test - that's only $0,24 per test.
> Your welcome
> J


or i could just follow the directions on the bottle? cost per test $0.00


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## rkymtnman (Mar 5, 2016)

@J Henry enough with your lengthy diatribes, show us what you built that works!


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## Budley Doright (Mar 5, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Now that’s a great question… sure, there’s a lot you can do that will insure safe oxygenation and seriously inhibit fungal outbreaks 24/7/months if you really think it's that important.
> 
> When your oxygen limitation is air or 20% O2, many on the forums say the ideal DO is 100% DO Sat and the only way you can get that is using air is to chill the water to 64-68F, that's it, that's all that is possible to do. I’m sure you have heard this too.
> 
> ...


So have you ran an oxygen infused setup? Would love to see it running. And yes by chilling the water, which I do with a passive chiller, should ensure enough DO to keep the plants happy. The cost of running chilled water for me is less then a 100 watt bulb turned on intermittently so cost is not a factor. How do I know my plants have enough DO, well it's only a guess with out a DO meter but if the plants are growing an inch a day, green with no curl or blotchy spots and healthy would that not mean all is well. I gotta ask J what's your end game here? What are you trying to achieve with the numerous posts in numerous threads talking about the same thing? Are you a DO meter salesman lol? Or perhaps a bottled oxygen salesman lol. Again I would love to see your setup.


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## J Henry (Mar 5, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> So have you ran an oxygen infused setup? Would love to see it running. And yes by chilling the water, which I do with a passive chiller, should ensure enough DO to keep the plants happy. The cost of running chilled water for me is less then a 100 watt bulb turned on intermittently so cost is not a factor. How do I know my plants have enough DO, well it's only a guess with out a DO meter but if the plants are growing an inch a day, green with no curl or blotchy spots and healthy would that not mean all is well. I gotta ask J what's your end game here? What are you trying to achieve with the numerous posts in numerous threads talking about the same thing? Are you a DO meter salesman lol? Or perhaps a bottled oxygen salesman lol. Again I would love to see your setup.


There are a few of these really high-tech operations scattered around, but be assured they are not open to the public and pics are never seen on an internet forum, that’s out. Of course you can understand why high end producers would not share their cutting edge technology on an internet forum. Don’t let no hurt your feelings, but it sure doesn’t hurt a thing to ask to see it.

Your rig sounds great and working perfectly; healthy plants, growing fast and looking good and no fungal infestations or root zone diseases. Sounds great to me, don’t change anything.

No, I’m not a salesman although I do considered a career in sales one time… but that passed and I chose other things. My end game is trying to spend all the money I’ve made before a Government Robin Hood takes it and gives it away for free food stamps, free Obama Care, free housing, free cell phones, free college... free mail box money for all. Got to watch out for Robin, he’s real and he’s coming for all your money and stuff too.

Budley, do you work for a living? What do you do?

J


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## J Henry (Mar 5, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> since you seem to be so smart and critical of others, please show us your pics of how you built an O2 infused DWC setup so we can critique it. enough with the hypothesis, let's see some EVIDENCE!! or is all this scientific conjecture on your part?


Your really demanding today. OK, maybe tomorrow if your ask nicely, maybe not.


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## J Henry (Mar 5, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Pretty sure most didn't .


Although many native Tribes and races in North America were >than 10,000 years old, they had no chance against American Imperialism, free enterprise, The US Army and all the free whisky they could drink. Dumbed-down, killed conquered in short order.

Did you know that The Lone Ranger was a US Marshall and he was a black guy? His name was Bass Reeves.

J


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## J Henry (Mar 5, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> or i could just follow the directions on the bottle? cost per test $0.00


Having a Eureka moment here... Now you have had brilliant idea, read the label slowly and follow those directions on the label...
I'm really impressed now... and the test is free too, it cost $0.00.
J


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## Budley Doright (Mar 5, 2016)

"Your rig sounds great and working perfectly; healthy plants, growing fast and looking good and no fungal infestations or root zone diseases. Sounds great to me, don’t change anything."

I'm always tweaking and changing things lol. This growing indoors is a hobby and not a money making thing. And yup seems to be working great. 

"My end game is trying to spend all the money I’ve made before a GovernmentRobin Hood takes it"

They can only take what they know you have, silly man. 

"Budley, do you work for a living? What do you do?"

Yes, mostly part time now. Refrigeration mechanic and gas tech. Plus a bunch more certificates. 
And I grew pot for years, lots lol.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 5, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Having a Eureka moment here... Now you have had brilliant idea, read the label slowly and follow those directions on the label...
> I'm really impressed now... and the test is free too, it cost $0.00.
> J


J your starting to become quite a dick, just thought I'd point that out .


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## J Henry (Mar 5, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> J your starting to become quite a dick, just thought I'd point that out .


Noted


rkymtnman said:


> @J Henry enough with your lengthy diatribes, show us what you built that works!


Where you never taught any manors. How about "please" show me.


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## AlphaPhase (Mar 5, 2016)

The problem with using chlorine for pools and going by the label is that ppm for pools is far greater for what swimmers can handle and what plants can handle. The method of mixing 1gram of shock to 1 gallon of water and then using 30ml of the solution per 5gal of water is what I use for my cloner, but I do not think this is enough for a Dwc system or other forms of hydroponics. It's also hard to calculate from the label, since it uses 10s of thousands of gallons for treatment dosage. Also 5-10ppm as recommended by the package instructions is far too much.


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## AlphaPhase (Mar 5, 2016)

BOC injection?


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## blackforest (Mar 5, 2016)

@J Henry throw up a couple pics when you get a chance. You know that old saying.


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## AlphaPhase (Mar 5, 2016)

For sure, I'd love to see the system a new age hydro system. I'll show you mine if you show me yours  mines not new age, but it's different than most others I've seen, I'd like to think I invented "suspended net pot ebb and flow/grow" system


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## Budley Doright (Mar 5, 2016)

Nice setup Alpha, how's it work? Flood pails from bottom I assume and do u have root blockage issues?


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## AlphaPhase (Mar 5, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Nice setup Alpha, how's it work? Flood pails from bottom I assume and do u have root blockage issues?


Thanks Budley! It basically just an ebb and grow buckets system, floods from the bottom, but instead of filling the ebb buckets directly with a medium, the 1 gallon pots are suspended above the inner 2 gallon pots. I veg in a flood tray in the one gallon pots then transplant in to the ebb buckets and the roots just dangle out inside of the ebb buckets so I can flood much more with much less medium to deal with. No root blockage has happened, more so it slightly gets into the drain if I don't suspend the pots and just plant them in hydroton. I can flood every hour or two growing like this and the roots grow much better not having to grow through the hydroton and the growth is so much better as well. Also, less salt build up


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## Steve Man (Mar 5, 2016)

Ive found that hydrogaurd will work wonders for people who have to battle temps/light leaks, but if you dont want to deal with any problems get a chiller and a really good air pump. You will save your self so much stress time and money


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## J Henry (Mar 6, 2016)

blackforest said:


> @J Henry throw up a couple pics when you get a chance. You know that old saying.


Imagine this oxygen system added in line with your water flow distal to your water pump in any RDWC system:


If you want real cheap oxygenation then oxygen-injection is it: Pure oxygen can simply be injected into pipes leading to the tank. If these lines are under pressure from a pump, the increased hydrostatic pressure will increase oxygen diffusion. Reasonable transfer efficiencies can be achieved with oxygen injection, though some oxygen is still lost to the atmosphere.


This dissolves O2 in the water: oxygen cone or oxygen saturator http://web.utk.edu/~rstrange/wfs556/html-content/18-ox-cont.html Saturators are cheap and easy to make with PVC and glue.


A device called a Packed Column will also efficiently dissolve O2 into the water. Make a packed column with PVC and glue.


And there are other high-tech devices and ways to dissolve O2 into water too.

It is important to use a gas dissolving device that dissolves O2 with extreme efficiently to prevent gas waste, diffusers, a venture, sprayers are horribly inefficient and will waste tremendous volumes of Oxygen. Wasting O2 always increasing the cost of operation. The whole oxygenating system must operate efficiently... or forget it.

Source oxygen - rebuilt oxygen generator. 5 year warranty: http://www.oxygenplusmedical.com/ 

OxygenPlus Medical Systems Inc.
12348 North Old Moneta Rd
Moneta, VA 24121
Phone: 1-540-297-3257
Fax: 1-540-296-3157
Email: [email protected]

This is only 1 of many companies that sell rebuilt O2 generators.

There are other O2 gas sources that are more dependable and cheaper than oxygen generators.

J


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## rkymtnman (Mar 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> here are a few of these really high-tech operations scattered around, but be assured they are not open to the public and pics are never seen on an internet forum, that’s out









as i suspected, purely hypothetical horseshit.

build your O2 system and show us pics or it didnt' happen. and let me know how it compares to my $13 liter bottle of dutchmaster zone.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Noted
> 
> Where you never taught any manors. How about "please" show me.


here's my manners (i live in a country manor): please go f yourself. that better?


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 6, 2016)

AlphaPhase said:


> The problem with using chlorine for pools and going by the label is that ppm for pools is far greater for what swimmers can handle and what plants can handle. The method of mixing 1gram of shock to 1 gallon of water and then using 30ml of the solution per 5gal of water is what I use for my cloner, but I do not think this is enough for a Dwc system or other forms of hydroponics. It's also hard to calculate from the label, since it uses 10s of thousands of gallons for treatment dosage. Also 5-10ppm as recommended by the package instructions is far too much.
> View attachment 3624181


i just use dutchmaster zone. 2mL per gallon. done.


----------



## J Henry (Mar 6, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> as i suspected, purely hypothetical horseshit.
> 
> build your O2 system and show us pics or it didnt' happen. and let me know how it compares to my $13 liter bottle of dutchmaster zone.


Potty, potty, potty mouth. Did you learn to be a potty mouth from you mama or did you learn this in kindergarden.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 6, 2016)

if i want any lip off you, i'll scrape it off my zipper, ok? 


J Henry said:


> Potty, potty, potty mouth. Did you learn to be a potty mouth from you mama or did you learn this in kindergarden.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 6, 2016)

did you learn to spell at kindergarden or kindergarten?


----------



## J Henry (Mar 6, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> if i want any lip off you, i'll scrape it off my zipper, ok?


Here's Potty mouth again.


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 6, 2016)

Again long winded advertisements for expensive concentrators and other equipment but no proof that these thing actually increase growth. What are you trying to achieve J? What is your end game? No comparisons, no actual side by grows, just a lot of talk about the benefits but are there any? You came here asking if it would work, and peoples thoughts then proceeded to belittle people that didn't agree. Instead of having an intelligent conversation about the benefits you spout gas laws, mythical secret grow OP's, and conjecture. Time to move these discussions to the advanced section J, this is not general growing stuff.


----------



## J Henry (Mar 6, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Again long winded advertisements for expensive concentrators and other equipment but no proof that these thing actually increase growth. What are you trying to achieve J? What is your end game? No comparisons, no actual side by grows, just a lot of talk about the benefits but are there any? You came here asking if it would work, and peoples thoughts then proceeded to belittle people that didn't agree. Instead of having an intelligent conversation about the benefits you spout gas laws, mythical secret grow OP's, and conjecture. Time to move these discussions to the advanced section J, this is not general growing stuff.


Does this mean you won't be back?


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## rkymtnman (Mar 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Here's Potty mouth again.


so i call you out on your fantasy of O2 injecting actually working and that's the best you can come up with? 

put up pictures and a grow journal of your O2 injection system that you built and have run head to head against a regular dwc or shut up.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Does this mean you won't be back?


Oh I will be but to read posts rom people that have something to say that is actually pertinent to the thread. And yes to keep watching you get slammed as its kind of entertaining. You haven't answered my question though and I've asked twice, what's your goal here, what are you hoping to achieve. People have asked in numerous threads, show us, show how this is worth the effort. You haven't tried any of this have you?


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## rkymtnman (Mar 6, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> mythical secret grow OP's


that did make me laugh at loud. top secret clearance needed to even get near one of these grow ops that he fantasized about


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 6, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> You haven't tried any of this have you?


oh, i think he's quite well versed on hot air injection.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 6, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> that did make me laugh at loud. top secret clearance needed to even get near one of these grow ops that he fantasized about


They don't exist lol. Chilled water and lots of air (yes just air) infused into the water. That's it that's all, don't get any easier then that.


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## blackforest (Mar 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Imagine this oxygen system added in line with your water flow distal to your water pump in any RDWC system:
> 
> 
> If you want real cheap oxygenation then oxygen-injection is it: Pure oxygen can simply be injected into pipes leading to the tank. If these lines are under pressure from a pump, the increased hydrostatic pressure will increase oxygen diffusion. Reasonable transfer efficiencies can be achieved with oxygen injection, though some oxygen is still lost to the atmosphere.
> ...


I didn't see any attachments.


----------



## J Henry (Mar 6, 2016)

In the last 9 years high-tech growing has come a long way.
Historically speaking, take a trip down memory lane... 
Pure Oxygen Effects https://www.rollitup.org/t/pure-oxygen-effects.10409/


----------



## J Henry (Mar 6, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> They don't exist lol. Chilled water and lots of air (yes just air) infused into the water. That's it that's all, don't get any easier then that.





rkymtnman said:


> so i call you out on your fantasy of O2 injecting actually working and that's the best you can come up with?
> 
> put up pictures and a grow journal of your O2 injection system that you built and have run head to head against a regular dwc or shut up.


"Shut up" oh s
Let me be clear for you Potty Mouth - no.



Budley Doright said:


> They don't exist lol. Chilled water and lots of air (yes just air) infused into the water. That's it that's all, don't get any easier then that.


OK I understand; that's iym that's all that all for your and that's the easiest thing you can an will do. And however it turns out is just fine and that's the way you want it


J Henry said:


> In the last 9 years high-tech growing has come a long way.
> Historically speaking, take a trip down memory lane...
> Pure Oxygen Effects https://www.rollitup.org/t/pure-oxygen-effects.10409/


----------



## J Henry (Mar 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> "Shut up" oh s
> Let me be clear for you Potty Mouth - no.
> 
> 
> OK I understand; that's iym that's all that all for your and that's the easiest thing you can an will do. And however it turns out is just fine and that's the way you want it


If you don't like O2 comes, oxygen-injection, packed columns, O2 saturators here's another option. Here's newer technology a year old, 2015 stuff:

Check this oxygenator: O2Grow RDWC pure oxygen system replaces aerators, diffusers, air pumps and the old water cooler machines http://www.hightimes.com/read/high-buy-o2-grow Tested by High Times.

Here it is: O2Grow http://www.o2grow.com/store


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## blackforest (Mar 6, 2016)

@J Henry 
Neat, the one for my system is only $400. Maybe I should get a couple.
rdwc grow with $4 air stones.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 6, 2016)

Well thanks for that J . Not really sure what your trying to say but thanks and sorry if I'm being a dick as well, I've got a man cold and kinda cranky lol, but really what help is any of this? Everyone who grows hydro with flooded root zone knows the importance of O2 and if they don't have enough they add a chiller just as I have, when things go to shit. The O2 injection thing has been around for a long time your right and is anyone doing it ..... Nope lol, Not even you, so yes I guess I am done here..... It's kind of like " move along, nothing to see here". But what ever your trying to prove or accomplish, good luck!


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## Budley Doright (Mar 6, 2016)

blackforest said:


> @J Henry
> Neat, the one for my system is only $400. Maybe I should get a couple.
> rdwc grow with $4 air stones.
> 
> View attachment 3624905


Very nice!


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Here it is: O2Grow http://www.o2grow.com/store


so do you own it or are you a salesman? guess we know the reason for all your posts now, huh.

did you read the HT article? are you advocating spending $1200 for a system that "On the other hand, a study done on hydroponically grown lettuce showed that only a minimum level of DO was necessary to keep the lettuce alive, and extra DO did not improve overall growth." will have the same effect as a $20 walmart airpump and a few cheap airstones? 

"a fool and his money are soon parted"


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## J Henry (Mar 6, 2016)

blackforest said:


> @J Henry
> Neat, the one for my system is only $400. Maybe I should get a couple.
> rdwc grow with $4 air stones.
> 
> View attachment 3624905


No doubt, This Crop looks impressive.
Couple questions please: 1. What was this crops total bud weight?
2. What was the average THC concentration?
3. What was the total $ for this crop of buds?
Healthy looking crop and I bet there were no Pythium outbreaks.
J


----------



## J Henry (Mar 6, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> so do you own it or are you a salesman? guess we know the reason for all your posts now, huh.
> 
> did you read the HT article? are you advocating spending $1200 for a system that "On the other hand, a study done on hydroponically grown lettuce showed that only a minimum level of DO was necessary to keep the lettuce alive, and extra DO did not improve overall growth." will have the same effect as a $20 walmart airpump and a few cheap airstones?
> 
> "a fool and his money are soon parted"


Hay... Potty Mouth is back again.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 6, 2016)

still evading the real questions, i see. 

i've got some oceanfront property in iowa if you are interested? or did you spend all your money on o2 injection?


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 6, 2016)

so do you work for them or just got suckered by them? or both?


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## J Henry (Mar 6, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Well thanks for that J . Not really sure what your trying to say but thanks and sorry if I'm being a dick as well, I've got a man cold and kinda cranky lol, but really what help is any of this? Everyone who grows hydro with flooded root zone knows the importance of O2 and if they don't have enough they add a chiller just as I have, when things go to shit. The O2 injection thing has been around for a long time your right and is anyone doing it ..... Nope lol, Not even you, so yes I guess I am done here..... It's kind of like " move along, nothing to see here". But what ever your trying to prove or accomplish, good luck!


I don’t think of you as a “dick” at all Budley, never did. Some folks on this forum are quiet vulgar I noticed, but the world of full of common vulgar people with hair triggers.

Thank you for participating in my thread and commenting. I have enjoyed our discussions immensely and understand you’re through and ready to move on now. Hope you get over your cold and get to feeling better soon. My wife says I get cranky too when I’m sick, but we get over it and we feel better.

Cheers

J


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## redi jedi (Mar 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> If you don't like O2 comes, oxygen-injection, packed columns, O2 saturators here's another option. Here's newer technology a year old, 2015 stuff:
> 
> Check this oxygenator: O2Grow RDWC pure oxygen system replaces aerators, diffusers, air pumps and the old water cooler machines http://www.hightimes.com/read/high-buy-o2-grow Tested by High Times.
> 
> Here it is: O2Grow http://www.o2grow.com/store


and there's the pitch


----------



## AlphaPhase (Mar 6, 2016)

If anyone is a salesman for the o2 grow air system, I would be willing to be a guinea pig and run 4k watts of testing and document my experience with the system  I have 2x 40 gallon reservoirs, 1x 30 gallon and 2x 25 gallon. All ebb and flow and ebb and grow


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## AlphaPhase (Mar 6, 2016)

Nothing in my flower room utilizes any type of air in the reservoir, no air stone, no venturi, no water pump for circulation. Just a waterfall effect only when the ebb system timer is flooding into the control bucket or pumping water back to the res. It definitely would be a good experiment to add some DO to these gals.


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## AlphaPhase (Mar 6, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> i just use dutchmaster zone. 2mL per gallon. done.


I've used zone before, it worked well for a while but I felt like after a while pythium got immune to it or something, I switched it chlorine, then I switched to bennies and have had much more luck.


----------



## J Henry (Mar 6, 2016)

AlphaPhase said:


> If anyone is a salesman for the o2 grow air system, I would be willing to be a guinea pig and run 4k watts of testing and document my experience with the system  I have 2x 40 gallon reservoirs, 1x 30 gallon and 2x 25 gallon. All ebb and flow and ebb and grow


Be pro active, a shaker and a mover and talk directly with the owner. Call O2Grow and by-pass the salesman. Tell the boss you are have time and you are willing to test his O2 Grow product at no charge. Ask the boss to send you an O2Grow rig, you are wiling to test it for him and see if it really works. I bet shipping will be free too and he may give it to you when you are fisisned testing it.

Do you have a DO Meter? He will probably send you one if you don't have one so you can test the DO his product produces which is the point.
*Oxygen Research Group*
19285 Highway 7
Excelsior, Minnesota 55331
Phone:  952-474-5820
J


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## twistedwords (Mar 6, 2016)

AlphaPhase said:


> Nothing in my flower room utilizes any type of air in the reservoir, no air stone, no venturi, no water pump for circulation. Just a waterfall effect only when the ebb system timer is flooding into the control bucket or pumping water back to the res. It definitely would be a good experiment to add some DO to these gals.
> View attachment 3624937



Nice drain to waste..


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## AlphaPhase (Mar 6, 2016)

twistedwords said:


> Nice drain to waste..


Recirculating! I don't like to waste any water in cali so drain to waste is out of the question. All water is used and none is wasted and I only use about 20 gallons a week for 18 semi-large 4' plants, can't beat that! These plants just hit day 31 of flower, only 39 days to go


----------



## AlphaPhase (Mar 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Be pro active, a shaker and a mover and talk directly with the owner. Call O2Grow and by-pass the salesman. Tell the boss you are have time and you are willing to test his O2 Grow product at no charge. Ask the boss to send you an O2Grow rig, you are wiling to test it for him and see if it really works. I bet shipping will be free too and he may give it to you when you are fisisned testing it.
> 
> Do you have a DO Meter? He will probably send you one if you don't have one so you can test the DO his product produces which is the point.
> *Oxygen Research Group*
> ...


Awesome! I will give him a call tomorrow! Would love to test the equipment out, I'm always playing around with things and tinkering and trying to get the most out of every grow and I know extra DO would be a nice benefit, not to mention if I don't have to worry about pythium in a highly oxygenated reservoir, that's a huge bonus


----------



## blackforest (Mar 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> No doubt, This Crop looks impressive.
> Couple questions please: 1. What was this crops total bud weight?
> 2. What was the average THC concentration?
> 3. What was the total $ for this crop of buds?
> ...


https://www.rollitup.org/t/rdwc-2nd-run-blue-power.885854/page-2#post-12187935


----------



## J Henry (Mar 6, 2016)

AlphaPhase said:


> I've used zone before, it worked well for a while but I felt like after a while pythium got immune to it or something, I switched it chlorine, then I switched to bennies and have had much more luck.


Sounds like Pythium or something has infested you grow continuous, immune to everything you try. Maybe 2 gallons of chlorine will slow it down. If 2 gallons of chlorine won't kill the fungus there are other fungicides to try.

Have you tried Liquid Copper Fungicide http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southern-Ag-1-Pt-Liquid-Copper-Fungicide-100048940/100599149 It’s cheap, only $10/ pint at Home Depot and kills many fungal species.
Are you really sure this is a pythium disease?
J


----------



## J Henry (Mar 6, 2016)

AlphaPhase said:


> Awesome! I will give him a call tomorrow! Would love to test the equipment out, I'm always playing around with things and tinkering and trying to get the most out of every grow and I know extra DO would be a nice benefit, not to mention if I don't have to worry about pythium in a highly oxygenated reservoir, that's a huge bonus


Don't worry, always be happy.
Let me know how it works out. The product should come with written operating instructions. Most manufacturers love to work with volunteers that are eager to help field test their products.
J


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## twistedwords (Mar 6, 2016)

AlphaPhase said:


> Recirculating! I don't like to waste any water in cali so drain to waste is out of the question. All water is used and none is wasted and I only use about 20 gallons a week for 18 semi-large 4' plants, can't beat that! These plants just hit day 31 of flower, only 39 days to go



Got yeah I missed it with the ebb n flow timer, misread...Recirculation is the way to go and easier IMHO. Saves the back.


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## AlphaPhase (Mar 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Sounds like Pythium or something has infested you grow continuous, immune to everything you try. Maybe 2 gallons of chlorine will slow it down. If 2 gallons of chlorine won't kill the fungus there are other fungicides to try.
> 
> Have you tried Liquid Copper Fungicide http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southern-Ag-1-Pt-Liquid-Copper-Fungicide-100048940/100599149 It’s cheap, only $10/ pint at Home Depot and kills many fungal species.
> Are you really sure this is a pythium disease?
> J


I know it was some sort of fungus, not sure which one though, there are so many it's hard to say. I believe it was a water mold though. I brought out the big guns and used ridomil, a systemic fungicide, and it cleared up almost over night. Now the roots are healthy and the plants are back to growing well. I'm going to cull them but it was a nice experiment to see what works and if I what I was dealing with was a fungus, which it was, so there were some things I learned. What fungus, that's what I'd really like to know lol


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## AlphaPhase (Mar 6, 2016)

twistedwords said:


> Got yeah I missed it with the ebb n flow timer, misread...Recirculation is the way to go and easier IMHO. Saves the back.


You got that right! My back is so messed up, I just can't do any other type of growing even if I wanted to. I used to grow in organic soil for years, but lugging pots of dirt around sucks, not to mention hand watering. Was thinking about drain to waste coco on drippers but, nah I don't want to deal with that either. Ebb and flow grows just as well as other forms and saves so much time and energy


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## twistedwords (Mar 6, 2016)

AlphaPhase said:


> You got that right! My back is so messed up, I just can't do any other type of growing even if I wanted to. I used to grow in organic soil for years, but lugging pots of dirt around sucks, not to mention hand watering. Was thinking about drain to waste coco on drippers but, nah I don't want to deal with that either. Ebb and flow grows just as well as other forms and saves so much time and energy



Been there done that as well. Today it is about efficiency and easiest possible. Less time spent the better.


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## twistedwords (Mar 6, 2016)

AlphaPhase said:


> You got that right! My back is so messed up, I just can't do any other type of growing even if I wanted to. I used to grow in organic soil for years, but lugging pots of dirt around sucks, not to mention hand watering. Was thinking about drain to waste coco on drippers but, nah I don't want to deal with that either. Ebb and flow grows just as well as other forms and saves so much time and energy


where did you get those black buckets from, been looking for those as you can drain from the bottom?


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## AlphaPhase (Mar 6, 2016)

twistedwords said:


> where did you get those black buckets from, been looking for those as you can drain from the bottom?


I use these, they are 2 gallon but I think they also make bigger ones. 
 


I also use this controller bucket to control the ebb and flow 
 

Very good system imo. I've tried the CAP brand system and it sucked. The hydrofarm system is excellent, I have 2 of them now and each one can handle up to 48 buckets I believe. You can also adjust the flood height unlike other systems and it also has a auto shut off valve which prevents flooding if something goes wrong with the water float valves.


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## twistedwords (Mar 6, 2016)

AlphaPhase said:


> I use these, they are 2 gallon but I think they also make bigger ones.
> View attachment 3625197
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks...


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## AlphaPhase (Mar 6, 2016)

Not a problem, and no I'm not a hydrofarm rep lol. But the system is nice. Titan controls also has a nice system I think, I haven't used it but their buckets are square. Wish my buckets were square but oh well. Oxygen pots also looks nice but I can't comment on it. Id like a digital controller bucket timer but you know how it is, the more bells and whistles, the more shit can go wrong


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## Gregor Eisenhorn (Mar 7, 2016)

Was wondering if anyone could recommend a good product for preventing root rot? Some beneficial bacteria I could ad to the reservoir? I've heard that Voodoo Juice, Pirahna, Tarantula have bennies that prevent RR.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 7, 2016)

Lots of products out there that work I'm sure but the one that I used to cure my rot was hydroguard, it's pricey but it did work very well. I hooked up a chiller as well at the same time


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## rkymtnman (Mar 7, 2016)

Gregor Eisenhorn said:


> Was wondering if anyone could recommend a good product for preventing root rot? Some beneficial bacteria I could ad to the reservoir? I've heard that Voodoo Juice, Pirahna, Tarantula have bennies that prevent RR.


you have 2 choices: sterile or beneficials
i like sterile. i think it's easier to kill everything vs trying to have more good vs bad bacteria.


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 2, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Please, let me be crystal clear this time, I ask for your opinion, not your perception of scientific facts... sorry you misunderstood. Let's begin again.
> 
> And your scientific point is ---- what?
> 
> ...


I have a question couldn't u just change your water weekly would this work new to hydro running a 17 gallon super ponics


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## J Henry (Apr 2, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> I have a question couldn't u just change your water weekly would this work new to hydro running a 17 gallon super ponics


Is this what you have?

General Hydroponics - AeroFlo 30 - Hydroponic System - 30 Sites - 17-Gallon Reservoir - 3 6 ft. Grow Chambers 3-inch Grow Cups Grow Media and Manifold Included - General Hydropo nics GH8008 $547.61 and shipping is free http://www.amazon.com/AeroFlo-Hydroponic-17-Gallon-Reservoir-Hydroponics/dp/B001IMFH52

I found no specifications on this product. Probably has a small water pump circulating the water, maybe an air venture connected to the plumbing entraining air into the water pump or piping. Changing the water 5 times daily would not increase oxygenation. Oxygenation is very limited when air is the source gas, air contains only 20% O2.


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## Gregor Eisenhorn (Apr 2, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> you have 2 choices: sterile or beneficials
> i like sterile. i think it's easier to kill everything vs trying to have more good vs bad bacteria.


So you use H202 yes? I've been thinking of adding it to my reservoir... maybe 1 ml for 1 liter of the 3% stuff and bump it up over the course of a few days.


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 2, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Is this what you have?
> 
> General Hydroponics - AeroFlo 30 - Hydroponic System - 30 Sites - 17-Gallon Reservoir - 3 6 ft. Grow Chambers 3-inch Grow Cups Grow Media and Manifold Included - General Hydropo nics GH8008 $547.61 and shipping is free http://www.amazon.com/AeroFlo-Hydroponic-17-Gallon-Reservoir-Hydroponics/dp/B001IMFH52
> 
> I found no specifications on this product. Probably has a small water pump circulating the water, maybe an air venture connected to the plumbing entraining air into the water pump or piping. Changing the water 5 times daily would not increase oxygenation. Oxygenation is very limited when air is the source gas, air contains only 20% O2.


No I have a supercloset. Superflower cabinet 16 site 17 gallon res Eco air 4 with airstones Eco pump 185 gal a money for dip feed for younger plantsi change my water weekly never gets above 61 degrees ever no matter the season just curious would rather be proactive then reactive


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 2, 2016)

Air cooled 600w HP's with 2 charcoal filter exaust fans 20 cfpm not sure how much this matters also the closet is in my walk in closet witch stays about 60 degrees all the time


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## J Henry (Apr 2, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> No I have a supercloset. Superflower cabinet 16 site 17 gallon res Eco air 4 with airstones Eco pump 185 gal a money for dip feed for younger plantsi change my water weekly never gets above 61 degrees ever no matter the season just curious would rather be proactive then reactive


So far - so good. If you are having no fungal symptoms, don't change anything. How often do you check your roots and look specifically for root rot symptoms? How often do your check your nutrient temp (with a swimming pool thermometer)?


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 2, 2016)

I check once a day after work no signs of root root check temps also one time a day besides weekends also do one oh check daily also I change my resume and nutes weekly have gone every I the but only durning veg weird thing is tho when I first set up clean sterilized set up put nutes in and about 5 mins later there was this brown slimy Lil patch of weirdness looked kinda 1/4 as long as a pencil and about as thick slime this when I tryd to dish it out with a strainer it kept going through I'm using technaflora recipe for success veg stage with root 66 plants love it mixed at 1/3 streghth just out rooted clones in it a week ago looks nice for a soidermite infested clone stressed to shit lol what u think


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## Gregor Eisenhorn (Apr 3, 2016)

I've been flowering for a week now and have become super paranoid about root rot. I've invested too much tears and stress into this 2 month grow. I wake up everyday and check the temps (usually between 15-19C) and sniff the roots.

I'm going to buy some kind of anti pythium product, fuck it. I shudder at the thought of losing my plant a few weeks before harvest.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 3, 2016)

Gregor Eisenhorn said:


> I've been flowering for a week now and have become super paranoid about root rot. I've invested too much tears and stress into this 2 month grow. I wake up everyday and check the temps (usually between 15-19C) and sniff the roots.
> 
> I'm going to buy some kind of anti pythium product, fuck it. I shudder at the thought of losing my plant a few weeks before harvest.


It's kind of pricey but hydroguard works very well. I haven't tried enough of anything else to recommend it but hydroguard saved my ass where H2O2 and bleach were not helping much.


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## Gregor Eisenhorn (Apr 3, 2016)

I have heard nothing but good reviews about hydroguard, but there is none available in Europe and the shipping alone is costly. I have been reading about Pythoff, apparently it's really good at preventing and most importantly combating pythium.

But I might start using H202 in small amounts until Pythoff arrives.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 3, 2016)

Gregor Eisenhorn said:


> I have heard nothing but good reviews about hydroguard, but there is none available in Europe and the shipping alone is costly. I have been reading about Pythoff, apparently it's really good at preventing and most importantly combating pythium.
> 
> But I might start using H202 in small amounts until Pythoff arrives.


That sucks and sorry if you already said that. I have the same issue here with cost of shipping if they even ship ;(.


----------



## Gregor Eisenhorn (Apr 3, 2016)

No worries, I could of missed something earlier. 

But in all honesty if I had access to hydroguard I'd buy it straight away, I don't think I've read about it not working.

Also I think you have to use it in the space of 6 months correct?


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 3, 2016)

Gregor Eisenhorn said:


> No worries, I could of missed something earlier.
> 
> But in all honesty if I had access to hydroguard I'd buy it straight away, I don't think I've read about it not working.
> 
> Also I think you have to use it in the space of 6 months correct?


Yes once you open it. I did buy a new powdered form of beanies but haven't tried it but once and I had issues with it plugging my spray nozzle filter . Hydroguard is pretty expensive for me to get it as well, that's why the search for a cheaper solution. I've heard good things re pondzyme but I got hit when using Microblift which I thought was the same thing .


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## Budley Doright (Apr 3, 2016)

Oh and trying to get 35% H2O2 here is like trying to buy a nuclear bomb lol. I found a 5 gallon pail for sale in the classifieds for $125, unfortunately I don't use it lol.


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## J Henry (Apr 3, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Oh and trying to get 35% H2O2 here is like trying to buy a nuclear bomb lol. I found a 5 gallon pail for sale in the classifieds for $125, unfortunately I don't use it lol.


Neither does this guy

*“ROT”* by Serious Fourside http://www.growweedeasy.com/root-rot
*Cannabis Root Rot – Slimy Brown Roots*
The Problem - Your cannabis plant starts drooping, leaves start getting sick, and roots are brown, smelly and/or slimy. These are all symptoms of cannabis root rot.
Sound familiar - burnt edges or tips; yellow, bronze or brown spots or stripes; nutrient deficiencies; clawing and curled edges; other unusual leaf symptoms?
Roots need water, but if they are get too much *water without enough oxygen they are much more susceptible to root rot.* This is often caused by too-hot conditions, overwatering, and/or *not enough bubbles dissolving oxygen into a DWC water reservoir. [plenty of air bubbles does not mean plenty of oxygen bubbles and root rot thrives in low oxygen conditions.]
The writer recommends treating the rot after the outbreak – “*You will need to treat the plant's root directly and you will also need change the plant's environment so that root rot no longer has a good place to grow.” And of course cold water and plenty of chemicals.
The writers opinion of using hydrogen peroxide: “*Don't Use Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2)! *H2O2 is temperarily effective _at best_ when it comes to getting rid of root rot. It makes me so sad when people tell growers to use H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) to kill root rot. Even the commercial grade stuff just doesn't work (and I've tried)!
All H2O2 does is cause bubbling near the dead brown roots (or any organic matter), which is why I think people believe it's helping. In my experience it doesn't help the plants themselves (they don't look any better), and what's worse, all the H2O2 will be completely gone from the water within 24 hours.
*H2O2 kills most of the bacteria in the reservoir, including any good bacteria, and does absolutely nothing to address the underlying problem. Although H2O2 does kill bad bacteria, it leaves enough of it there to repopulate your reservoir. As common as the advice to use H2O2 for root rot is, I've never seen a case by a real grower who was actually able to get rid of root rot with H2O2.* [YIKES!]
If you *cannot/will not prevent the fungal outbreaks*, treating the disease is the *only option you have left* if you’re going to be a RDWC/DWC pot grower. Personally I’m into preventing the root rot disease and keep the crop and microbial eco system healthy.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 3, 2016)

^^^ that was one of the hundred articles I read when it happened lol. There is a lot of conflicting stuff out there but had to find out for myself so I threw everything at it lol. Out of the 3 or 4 products I tried only hydroguard wiped it completely .


----------



## J Henry (Apr 3, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> that was one of the hundred articles I read when it happened lol. There is a lot of conflicting stuff out there but had to find out for myself so I threw everything at it lol. Out of the 3 or 4 products I tried only hydroguard wiped it completely


Lot's of hype, slick advertisement and snake oil salesmen cruising 24/7 in the root rot treatment industry..' big business for sure. The treatment business is totally dependent on methods and equipment that are responsible for causing the "low oxygen" events; a synergistic business relationship for sure. 
I like real root rot prevention better than last resort crisis intervention treatment (acute disease treatment or chronic disease treatment).
Real Supplemental oxygen prevents any and all "low oxygen" events in the nutrient and above the nutrient surface in the root zone above the water in RDWC . Impossible to have "low oxygen" when you have plenty oxygen continuously O2 available in high concentration >24% oxygen.


----------



## Tripp2005 (Apr 3, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Lot's of hype, slick advertisement and snake oil salesmen cruising 24/7 in the root rot treatment industry..' big business for sure. The treatment business is totally dependent on methods and equipment that are responsible for causing the "low oxygen" events; a synergistic business relationship for sure.
> I like real root rot prevention better than last resort crisis intervention treatment (acute disease treatment or chronic disease treatment).
> Real Supplemental oxygen prevents any and all "low oxygen" events in the nutrient and above the nutrient surface in the root zone above the water in RDWC . Impossible to have "low oxygen" when you have plenty oxygen continuously O2 available in high concentration >24% oxygen.


So 24% is a high percent just seeing what is high and low


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## J Henry (Apr 3, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> So 24% is a high percent just seeing what is high and low


24% oxygen or greater is an "oxygen enriched atmosphere."


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 3, 2016)

So if air is fresh air then its around 20% is pretty close when just running air stones


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## Budley Doright (Apr 3, 2016)

Not an expert and JH may have a better answer but yes 24% is high and unachievable without supersaturation (adding pure O2). It is my understanding that if you can provide 8-8.5 % you will have very happy roots. You can achieve this by flooming, air stones, or Venturi. Keep in mind that temps would have to be kept at 70 or below (I think lol) to achieve these levels using the above methods. There are charts available that tell you what the saturated levels are at different temps and altitude (re sea level or above) also I believe EC levels play a big role and the higher the lower the saturation levels. That is why over feeding is a bad thing beyond burning the shit out of plants. Perhaps if I have stated any bullshit JH could clean it up, this is just what I have researched (limited effort lol) when I was not being proactive and almost lost my crop. .


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 3, 2016)

Ya I have a 17 gal res dwc an top feed with an Eco air4 with 4. 2" air stone 16 site but I only use 12 the other 4 I use till end of veg an clone the crap out ta them for next cycle water temp 63-68 at most never any higher should be fine.where its my first hydro cycle thinking about using h202 just to get the feel without as many prob an still OK results


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## Budley Doright (Apr 3, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> Ya I have a 17 gal res dwc an top feed with an Eco air4 with 4. 2" air stone 16 site but I only use 12 the other 4 I use till end of veg an clone the crap out ta them for next cycle water temp 63-68 at most never any higher should be fine.where its my first hydro cycle thinking about using h202 just to get the feel without as many prob an still OK results


That's what I started with as well. Go have a look at my thread re Dr Green thumb and have a look at the first versus second run with rot and with out, the second one is chilled using hydroguard and vitanimo and cheap local hydro nutes. But if your Res temps are below 70 and your providing lots of air then your winning already.


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## J Henry (Apr 3, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Not an expert and JH may have a better answer but yes 24% is high and unachievable without supersaturation (adding pure O2). It is my understanding that if you can provide 8-8.5 % you will have very happy roots. You can achieve this by flooming, air stones, or Venturi. Keep in mind that temps would have to be kept at 70 or below (I think lol) to achieve these levels using the above methods. There are charts available that tell you what the saturated levels are at different temps and altitude (re sea level or above) also I believe EC levels play a big role and the higher the lower the saturation levels. That is why over feeding is a bad thing beyond burning the shit out of plants. Perhaps if I have stated any bullshit JH could clean it up, this is just what I have researched (limited effort lol) when I was not being proactive and almost lost my crop. .


What is 8-8.5%? I'm interested in this 8-8.5% number. I have never seen are heard of this #. Where can I find more info about it? Are you saying that if this # can be reached and sustained fungal prevent is preventable? Thanks.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 3, 2016)

J Henry said:


> What is 8-8.5%? I'm interested in this 8-8.5% number. I have never seen are heard of this #. Where can I find more info about it? Are you saying that if this # can be reached and sustained fungal prevent is preventable? Thanks.


This is what I have read and researched that is what most commercial ops try to achieve re percent oxygen for optimal growth (or more) without the addition of supplemental oxygen in the hydroponic solutions. Again I may have understood it wrong. Are you running a system at 24%?


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## Budley Doright (Apr 3, 2016)

And as far as fungal prevention, well most OP's, I believe, but again could be wrong run a preventative regime of either sterile (bleach) or beneficial bacteria. I would really like to hear your experience though. I run Res temps at 65, use waterfall water return and beanies and everything seems great touch wood.


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## J Henry (Apr 3, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> This is what I have read and researched that is what most commercial ops try to achieve re percent oxygen for optimal growth (or more) without the addition of supplemental oxygen in the hydroponic solutions. Again I may have understood it wrong. Are you running a system at 24%?


Air contains 20% O2. Yikes - 8-8.5% O2 is less than 1/2 the O2 % in air. I can see now why "low oxygen" and treating root rot is the norm, the "low oxygen" problem is crystal clear now. There is no prevention, only treatment.

I had no idea the goal of commercial ops was less that 1/2 the O2% in air.

I like 76F-80F nutrient temp and environmental air temp, 50% RH, 115-125% DO supersaturation,13-15 ppm DO concentration continuously. Temp control with room A/C unit. I use a DO meter to measure and regulate DO saturation/DO concentration. I never have "low O2" or fungal disease issues therefore I never treat fungal outbreaks. Beneficial thrive and multiply in the DO supersaturated environment. I prevent outbreaks with O2, I do not treat outbreaks with chemicals (too much hassle, cost damage to plant and microbial health). My oxygenation capabilities are not limited by a DO Chart, air, water chiller, mechanical aeration, air pumps or bubble rocks at all. I am only limited by gas chemistry - Henry's Law.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 3, 2016)

Sorry I was should have said ppm not %. I haven't seen any pics of your setup, do you have any? What are you using to supersaturate your water?


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## J Henry (Apr 3, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Sorry I was should have said ppm not %. I haven't seen any pics of your setup, do you have any? What are you using to supersaturate your water?


Pics are quiet incriminating in some states; pot growers, dealers and users are commonly busted. Private run jails and state prison systems generate tremendous incomes form any and all pot convictions related illegal activities. Politicians encourage incarceration laws targeting pot activity because there is big bucks in incarceration paid for with tax dollars - there will be no pics today. PSA or VSA oxygen generators are electrically efficient and an oxygen cone dissolved the oxygen very well, both do a great job and are cost effective. Electrolysis oxygenators produce pure O2,but the cooler the water the less O2 they produce and that is limiting.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 3, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Pics are quiet incriminating in some states; pot growers, dealers and users are commonly busted. Private run jails and state prison systems generate tremendous incomes form any and all pot convictions related illegal activities. Politicians encourage incarceration laws targeting pot activity because there is big bucks in incarceration paid for with tax dollars - there will be no pics today. PSA or VSA oxygen generators are electrically efficient and an oxygen cone dissolved the oxygen very well, both do a great job and are cost effective. Electrolysis oxygenators produce pure O2,but the cooler the water the less O2 they produce and that is limiting.


I would think just talking would be as incriminating or at least interest tweaking but as I grow only for my self with 4-6 plants I'm not to worried. When I was actually doing it on a bit larger scale years ago your right I would not have been any where near this site but that's in the distant past lol. I don't think the problem is that big with most serious growers because they have learned that to provide a healthy root zone chilled res's are a must or in your case, supersaturate it with other means. Have you actually measured the difference in growth rate at higher water temps? I gotta say it's hard in my case to think rate of growth could increase much more than I'm getting now. My chilled water system consists of one circ pump that draws .7 amps and runs only as needed so very reasonable cost at probably $10 a month without doing the math. But I'm sure there are benefits to your setup as well.


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## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I would think just talking would be as incriminating or at least interest tweaking but as I grow only for my self with 4-6 plants I'm not to worried. When I was actually doing it on a bit larger scale years ago your right I would not have been any where near this site but that's in the distant past lol. I don't think the problem is that big with most serious growers because they have learned that to provide a healthy root zone chilled res's are a must or in your case, supersaturate it with other means. Have you actually measured the difference in growth rate at higher water temps? I gotta say it's hard in my case to think rate of growth could increase much more than I'm getting now. My chilled water system consists of one circ pump that draws .7 amps and runs only as needed so very reasonable cost at probably $10 a month without doing the math. But I'm sure there are benefits to your setup as well.


Louisiana is notorious for pot convictions and long prison sentences for a joint or 2, careful if you ever go there. Pot and prison goes hand in hand and is big business there today, politicos and law enforcement get a piece of the pot pie there and good business if more business... heck of a deal. Do you recall long ago when high school boys cross the Mexican border for a weekend of fun, frolic and buy a pound of Mexican dirt weed from a drug dealer in "Boy's Town" for $10/lb... A setting like the movie, "The Last Picture Show."


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## rkymtnman (Apr 4, 2016)

so what is the cost of your setup @J Henry ?

any pics or it didn't happen is how RIU works.


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> If you don't like O2 comes, oxygen-injection, packed columns, O2 saturators here's another option. Here's newer technology a year old, 2015 stuff:
> 
> Check this oxygenator: O2Grow RDWC pure oxygen system replaces aerators, diffusers, air pumps and the old water cooler machines http://www.hightimes.com/read/high-buy-o2-grow Tested by High Times.
> 
> Here it is: O2Grow http://www.o2grow.com/store


So if u wanted to utilize both methods when u change your response each week couldn't u just make a small unit to o2 the water in a diff container then just fill ur rest the usual way an run your difusers for the week and repeat for a liil 10-12 hour boost could even top of with o2 water just a thought


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## rkymtnman (Apr 4, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> So if u wanted to utilize both methods when u change your response each week couldn't u just make a small unit to o2 the water in a diff container then just fill ur rest the usual way an run your difusers for the week and repeat for a liil 10-12 hour boost could even top of with o2 water just a thought


findings in that high times article:
On the other hand, a study done on hydroponically grown lettuce showed that only a minimum level of DO was necessary to keep the lettuce alive, and extra DO did not improve overall growth.

he's just a salesman for his product. don't fall for his $1500 sales pitch.


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 4, 2016)

Ya I get that but i wouldn't mind making a homemade one I have before she I was a kid think I just cut a cord off something stripped it wound each wire around a nail AMD to see ina bucket of water bubbles like crazy (do not try at home) bet it be good water to top off withe mabey use it when u change ur deff gunma do a Lil experimenting now lol


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 4, 2016)

May have been a battery I hooked it too was a long time ago lol


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## rkymtnman (Apr 4, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> May have been a battery I hooked it too was a long time ago lol


yep, that's what he's talking about with the electrolysis O2 generator. same principle. 

if your goal is to combat root rot, you can spend $1500 on O2 machines or a few pennies and use chlorine like most commercial hydroponic growers. ps. i don't get a commision from Clorox either.


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 4, 2016)

Ya I can make one for under 5 bucks so why not try it out at red changes and top offs might not need any chems for root rot might help stunted plants


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## rkymtnman (Apr 4, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> Ya I can make one for under 5 bucks so why not try it out at red changes and top offs might not need any chems for root rot might help stunted plants


try it out. would be nice to see a side by side grow with proof it works instead of conjecture.


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 4, 2016)

Ya that's what I'm thinking down the line wanna look onto it more but not at this point be sum thing to mess with evently


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## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> so what is the cost of your setup @J Henry ?


Far cheaper than water chillers, air pumps, bubble rocks, water falls, air, aeration and all those chemicals when you catch a dose. But, first, you got to think beyond the limits of a DO chart. Can you do that? Easy to make an O2 enrivhment rig if your inclined. Are you a RDWC/DWC pot grower, are you inclined or no?


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## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> On the other hand, a study done on hydroponically grown lettuce showed that only a minimum level of DO was necessary to keep the lettuce alive, and extra DO did not improve overall growth.


Yikes! Don't get yourself all fixated on lettuce, lettuce ain't pot and microbial colonies ain't fish and air certainly ain't oxygen. Think about it, use your head.
Forget the "other hand" let's refocus on the real hand. The real hand in this discussion has absolutely nothing to do with lettuce at all. On the real hand this is about RDWC,DWC pot and oxygen. Your "study" about lettuce is a fancy pivot action, a meaningless distraction from the issue... low oxygen, DWC/DWC pot growing and fighting Pythium fires.

Did you know that goldfish in a fish bowl do not need aeration, air pumps or bubble toys to survive?


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## Budley Doright (Apr 4, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> Ya I get that but i wouldn't mind making a homemade one I have before she I was a kid think I just cut a cord off something stripped it wound each wire around a nail AMD to see ina bucket of water bubbles like crazy (do not try at home) bet it be good water to top off withe mabey use it when u change ur deff gunma do a Lil experimenting now lol


Ummm don't think that's what you did lol


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## Budley Doright (Apr 4, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> findings in that high times article:
> On the other hand, a study done on hydroponically grown lettuce showed that only a minimum level of DO was necessary to keep the lettuce alive, and extra DO did not improve overall growth.
> 
> he's just a salesman for his product. don't fall for his $1500 sales pitch.


We don't take kindly to your type here Mr Henry lol


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## redi jedi (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Far cheaper than water chillers, air pumps, bubble rocks, water falls, air, aeration and all those chemicals when you catch a dose. But, first, you got to think beyond the limits of a DO chart. Can you do that? Easy to make an O2 enrivhment rig if your inclined. Are you a RDWC/DWC pot grower, are you inclined or no?


For fuck sakes man...get to the point already!!


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## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> We don't take kindly to your type here Mr Henry lol


Oh man, I feel a bowl movement coming, ate too much lettuce. Who's we bud?


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## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> For fuck sakes man...get to the point already!!


Your a bright boy Sky Walker, your figure it out from here, of don's... makes me no difference. And wash out your little potty mouth.


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## redi jedi (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Your a bright boy Sky Walker, your figure it out from here, of don's... makes me no difference. And wash out your little potty mouth.


LOL..your the one going on and on about the best way to fight pythium, but you keep eluding to what method that is....so get to point or stfu


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## redi jedi (Apr 4, 2016)

I use chlorine, its very cheap and very effective...for me anyways


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## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> LOL..your the one going on and on about the best way to fight pythium, but you keep eluding to what method that is....so get to point or stfu


Oh, I believe you've really missed it. Take 3 steps back, regroup and try to get it again, maybe you can get it, probably not. Maybe you just can't get it but Good Luck anyway.


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## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> I use chlorine, its very cheap and very effective...for me anyways


Well that's just brilliant!


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## redi jedi (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Oh, I believe you've really missed it. Take 3 steps back, regroup and try to get it again, maybe you can get it, probably not. Maybe you just can't get it but Good Luck anyway.


You've mentioned O2 injection and those ridiculously expensive electrolysis rigs.

I've questioned the safety of injecting O2 into a sealed environment for which you had no reply and the electrolysis rigs are just stupid expensive and your also creating hydrogen...where does that go? and how would that affect the PH of the nutrient solution?

Common wise guy...answer the questions


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## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> You've mentioned O2 injection and those ridiculously expensive electrolysis rigs.
> 
> I've questioned the safety of injecting O2 into a sealed environment for which you had no reply and the electrolysis rigs are just stupid expensive and your also creating hydrogen...where does that go? and how would that affect the PH of the nutrient solution?
> 
> Common wise guy...answer the questions


You're still missing it Sky Walker, this is way beyond you. Stick with your bottle of Clorox, it's cheap, $1 a gallon at the Dollar Store. And there's OTabs or O2 Grow--- blow up balloons with the hydrogen, it free.


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## WeedFreak78 (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> I like 76F-80F nutrient temp and environmental air temp, 50% RH, 115-125% DO supersaturation,13-15 ppm DO concentration continuously.





J Henry said:


> The easiest most logical solution to prevent an outbreak is to simply keep your nutrient DO Supersaturated (100% - 130% DO) in the nutrient solution continuously and inhibit the fungal growth, That sounds really simple, ain't nothing to it .


I skimmed over all this and didn't see an answer. How do you maintain a supersaturated solution in your systems so that DO over 100% saturation doesn't come out of solution and dissipate? Only ways I know of to supersaturate water with O2 is through heating to boiling, then rapidly cooling, or under pressure. Neither of which I see being viable in any grow operation because of the equipment needed. In both cases, excess O2 is released once introduced to atmospheric condition and room temperatures.


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## redi jedi (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> You're still missing it Sky Walker, this is way beyond you. Stick with your bottle of Clorox, it's cheap, $1 a gallon at the Dollar Store. And there's OTabs or O2 Grow--- blow up balloons with the hydrogen, it free.


LOL...bullshit, you cant answer the question. Your just a fuckin salesmen.


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## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> LOL...bullshit, you cant answer the question. Your just a fuckin salesmen.


Potty, potty, potty mouth, your mama needs to wash out your dirty little potty mouth with a gallon of Clorox.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Far cheaper than water chillers, air pumps, bubble rocks, water falls, air, aeration and all those chemicals when you catch a dose. But, first, you got to think beyond the limits of a DO chart. Can you do that? Easy to make an O2 enrivhment rig if your inclined. Are you a RDWC/DWC pot grower, are you inclined or no?


so still no answer? i hope you aren't paid solely by commission cause you are the worst salesman i've ever seen.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 4, 2016)

let me guess @J Henry , you are skeered to put up pictures here cause in Lousiana they are tough on drug crimes? 

either you got suckered into buying one or you work for them. 

i think i know which one is true.


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## redi jedi (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Potty, potty, potty mouth, your mama needs to wash out your dirty little potty mouth with a gallon of Clorox.


Choke on a cock you slime bag shill!! Hows that for potty mouth mama's boy?


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## rkymtnman (Apr 4, 2016)

@J Henry 

hey how's the weather in Minnetonka today? 

what's it about a 12 mile drive to Excelsior where O2grow is located? 

i can put your address up too, dumbass if you'd like.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 4, 2016)

@redi jedi you believe this dumb shite?

ps. love the TPB quote in your sig.


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## redi jedi (Apr 4, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> @redi jedi you believe this dumb shite?
> 
> ps. love the TPB quote in your sig.


I believe he is trying to sell over priced junk

I've had people ask me who the fuck is Ricky?...lol


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## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> Only ways I know of to supersaturate water with O2 is through heating to boiling, then rapidly cooling, or under pressure.


Are you a RDWC/DWC pot grower?
Henry's Law... increase the FIO2, and keep the nutrient temp at room temp, ain’t nothing to it. Fish hatcheries have been doing this for years with supplemental oxygen in intensive recirculating cultures. I’ve never tried the boiling/cooling and pressurizing deal, sounds real complicate to me. Maybe that’s how Dr. Pepper sterilizes and bottles their sodas that are supersaturated with gas.


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## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> I've had people ask me who the fuck is Ricky?...


You really need to clean up your little potty mouth.


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## WeedFreak78 (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Are you a RDWC/DWC pot grower?
> Henry's Law... increase the FIO2, and keep the nutrient temp at room temp, ain’t nothing to it. Fish hatcheries have been doing this for years with supplemental oxygen in intensive recirculating cultures. I’ve never tried the boiling/cooling and pressurizing deal, sounds real complicate to me. Maybe that’s how Dr. Pepper sterilizes and bottles their sodas that are supersaturated with gas.


FI02, as in the carrico index, relating to 02 saturation in blood. How's that apply to this?

And: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry's_law

Deals with supersaturation under pressure. Not at atmosphere.

Yout can't have 02 supersaturated water at atmospheric pressures or temperatures.


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## redi jedi (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Are you a RDWC/DWC pot grower?
> Henry's Law... increase the FIO2, and keep the nutrient temp at room temp, ain’t nothing to it. Fish hatcheries have been doing this for years with supplemental oxygen in intensive recirculating cultures. I’ve never tried the boiling/cooling and pressurizing deal, sounds real complicate to me. Maybe that’s how Dr. Pepper sterilizes and bottles their sodas that are supersaturated with gas.


Fish farms are using air pumps/compressors with stones to supplement O2...dont even try to say different.


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## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> Choke on a cock you slime bag shill!! Hows that for potty mouth mama's boy?


Typical...


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## redi jedi (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Typical...


I see your still avoiding the questions....typical


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## redi jedi (Apr 4, 2016)

I can understand though, it will be tough to peddle your junk when people know the truth.


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## farmasensist (Apr 4, 2016)

@rkymtnman & @redi jedi 

How much clorox do you use per a gallon of water? It sounds like the simplest solution for a sterile res. Do you guys always have some in the res as preventative or just when it gets nasty?


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## redi jedi (Apr 4, 2016)

farmasensist said:


> @rkymtnman & @redi jedi
> 
> How much clorox do you use per a gallon of water? It sounds like the simplest solution for a sterile res. Do you guys always have some in the res as preventative or just when it gets nasty?


1mL/10L ten liters is roughly 2.5 gallons

It works best to always have some in the res, trying to fight pythium after a breakout is a losing battle. Be proactive.


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## redi jedi (Apr 4, 2016)

I should add, I put this amount of chlorine (bleach) in my top off res. Not directly into my RDWC. So the actual amount of chlorine in the system is much less. I can smell it in the top off res but not in the system.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 4, 2016)

farmasensist said:


> @rkymtnman & @redi jedi
> 
> How much clorox do you use per a gallon of water? It sounds like the simplest solution for a sterile res. Do you guys always have some in the res as preventative or just when it gets nasty?


i have been using dutchmaster zone (ready to use chlorine additive) at 2mL/ gallon in my rdwc and drain to waste hempy buckets for about 3 years. 
my bottle is almost empty so i'm going to use HTH pool shock (49% chlorine i think) at 0.15 grams per 10gallons water. will come out to 2ppm chlorine. i think plants can handle up to 5 ppm before they get problems. that pound bag i got at walmart will last years and it doesn't degrade over time like liquid clorox does.


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## redi jedi (Apr 4, 2016)

I'm currently using pool shock as well. I bought a 5gal bucket for 50 bucks and that will last me until I die..


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## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> Deals with supersaturation under pressure. Not at atmosphere. Call Pentair (877) 347-4788 1 877-347-4788 1 877-347-4788 and ask for tech support. The techs will help you understand how Henry’s Law works. The call is free, nothing to it.
> 
> Yout can't have 02 supersaturated water at atmospheric pressures or temperatures.


That's bull...
Sure you can if you chose too… if you can think beyond the limited boundary of that little DO chart. If you can’t or won’t think beyond the limits of the DO chart, all this will be a total waste of your time.

So here you go, call Pentair (877) 347-4788 1 877-347-4788 1 877-347-4788 and ask for technical support. A tech will help you understand how Henry’s Law works in reference to gas saturation and supersaturation in water. *** This is a free call, nothing to it. Learn how gas chemistry really works, how to exceed the limits of the little DO Chart, how to manipulate FIO2 and gas partial pressure.


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## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> Fish farms are using air pumps/compressors with stones to supplement O2...dont even try to say different.


Slow down speed-ball, read it again: "...with supplemental oxygen in intensive recirculating cultures."


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## WeedFreak78 (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> That's bull...
> Sure you can if you chose too… if you can think beyond the limited boundary of that little DO chart. If you can’t or won’t think beyond the limits of the DO chart, all this will be a total waste of your time.
> 
> So here you go, call Pentair (877) 347-4788 1 877-347-4788 1 877-347-4788 and ask for technical support. A tech will help you understand how Henry’s Law works in reference to gas saturation and supersaturation in water. *** This is a free call, nothing to it. Learn how gas chemistry really works, how to exceed the limits of the little DO Chart, how to manipulate FIO2 and gas partial pressure.


Im calling BS. A little footwork goes a long way. ..

Henry's Law works on pressure differentials. In rare cases, surface water can become momentarily supersaturated with 02 due to abrupt atmospheric pressure changes, but goes back to equilibrium quickly. 

Fi02 (fraction of inspired oxygen) is nothing more than the measurement of oxygen in a given space. Again it is used for measuring blood oxygen. How does it apply here? 

Don't give me a number to call. Your claiming greater than 100% DO. Explain yourself. If you don't understand it, Stop talking about it so definitely.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 4, 2016)

@WeedFreak78 : you said BS to him? here's comes his patented "potty mouth" blast. this guy is good!! lol.


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## WeedFreak78 (Apr 4, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> @WeedFreak78 : you said BS to him? here's comes his patented "potty mouth" blast. this guy is good!! lol.


He's probably on the phone trying to figure out what to tell me. ...


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## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> Don't give me a number to call.


The call is FREE, try it, you'll like it and might learn something new.
You got more questions, call Pentair, that's it or talk a local bait shop dealer that sells shiners- he knows all about this too. Or stop by any high school and talk with any chemistry. Or simple Google any question you have about gas chemistry, ain't nothing to it.


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## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> Stop talking about it so definitely.


It's a definite as Newton's Law of Gravity and Albert's E= MC square. Doesn't get any more definite than that.


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## WeedFreak78 (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> The call is FREE, try it, you'll like it and might learn something new.
> You got more questions, call Pentair, that's it or talk a local bait shop dealer that sells shiners- he knows all about this too. Or stop by any high school and talk with any chemistry. Or simple Google any question you have about gas chemistry, ain't nothing to it.


Guess what. I did Google it. .that's how I know Henry's Law is based on pressure differentials and fi02 is blood related. I'm not an idiot, I can do simple research. Your a charlatan and have no clue what your talking about, just spouting off about subjects you don't fully understand. 

Again, greater than 100% DO saturation in h202 at atmospheric pressures and room temperature isn't possible.


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 4, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> May have been a battery I hooked it too was a long time ago lol


Yes me thinks battery lol


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 4, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> For fuck sakes man...get to the point already!!


I know eh lol


----------



## Tripp2005 (Apr 4, 2016)

redi jedi said:


> You've mentioned O2 injection and those ridiculously expensive electrolysis rigs.
> 
> I've questioned the safety of injecting O2 into a sealed environment for which you had no reply and the electrolysis rigs are just stupid expensive and your also creating hydrogen...where does that go? and how would that affect the PH of the nutrient solution?
> 
> Common wise guy...answer the questions


Yes nitrogen would be released sumwhere if it was in a enclosed space say good bye to 1/4 of ur place if if ignites from lights heat static ect not a cost effective approach at least not to me anyway


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> That's bull...
> Sure you can if you chose too… if you can think beyond the limited boundary of that little DO chart. If you can’t or won’t think beyond the limits of the DO chart, all this will be a total waste of your time.
> 
> So here you go, call Pentair (877) 347-4788 1 877-347-4788 1 877-347-4788 and ask for technical support. A tech will help you understand how Henry’s Law works in reference to gas saturation and supersaturation in water. *** This is a free call, nothing to it. Learn how gas chemistry really works, how to exceed the limits of the little DO Chart, how to manipulate FIO2 and gas partial pressure.


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 4, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> Yes nitrogen would be released sumwhere if it was in a enclosed space say good bye to 1/4 of ur place if if ignites from lights heat static ect not a cost effective approach at least not to me anyway


Ummm it's hydrogen not nitrogen, think Hindenburg


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 4, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> Guess what. I did Google it. .that's how I know Henry's Law is based on pressure differentials and fi02 is blood related. I'm not an idiot, I can do simple research. Your a charlatan and have no clue what your talking about, just spouting off about subjects you don't fully understand.
> 
> Again, greater than 100% DO saturation in h202 at atmospheric pressures and room temperature isn't possible.


But but phone the number, they'll tell you, they really will. ...... Henry's call to the boss "I think we underestimated these pot smoker, they're smarter than we assumed"


----------



## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> Again, greater than 100% DO saturation in h202 at atmospheric pressures and room temperature isn't possible.


“… greater than 100% DO saturation in hydrogen peroxide?? You should think about what you are writing, you’re really out of touch right now.


----------



## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> But but phone the number, they'll tell you, they really will. ...... Henry's call to the boss "I think we underestimated these pot smoker, they're smarter than we assumed"


Bud, I am absolutely amazed and amused at how you present and display logic, clearly you do the best you can with all you got and that’s it – that’s all there is… you’re fun man.


----------



## WeedFreak78 (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> “… greater than 100% DO saturation in hydrogen peroxide?? You should think about what you are writing, you’re really out of touch right now.


You got me on a typo, good for you.  I'm going to try to saturate my blood with thc. I think I can hit 127% saturation using Henry's Law, and applying fi02 principals.


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Bud, I am absolutely amazed and amused at how you present and display logic, clearly you do the best you can with all you got and that’s it – that’s all there is… you’re fun man.


Glad your amazed and amused ...... So am I lol.


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 4, 2016)

Be nice to have you actually answer a valid question, without resorting to "think out of the box", "think beyond the chart", and the best one yet when things got real tough, "call the tech", that had me actually laughing out loud, kid thought I was going crazy lol. Actually you've become such a douche bag that I really don't give a flying fuck what your answer is but yup still amused ....


----------



## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

"Yes nitrogen would be released sumwhere if it was in a enclosed space say good bye to 1/4 of ur place if if ignites from lights heat static ect not a cost effective approach at least not to me anyway.

Tripp’s is really tripping now, totally lost in a purple haze inside the Other World where scary devils and demons live - the spirit world where those unspeakable things are seen and happen.

I can’t stop laughing, so you really are afraid all that nitrogen will ignite or explode? How big of an explosion will there be is a house filled chock full of 80% nitrogen? Will all this nitrogen blow the house off the block maybe like an explosion in a meth lab?

Seriously confused, all smoked up, and starring mindlessly at his keyboard typing mindless stuff. Brain Storm: Nitrogen is like oxygen and helium, these gases cannot, will not and do not explode. This is fun to watch man…. like a Chinch and Chong comedy.

I can’t stop laughing, so you really are afraid the nitrogen will explode? How big of an explosion does he believe a room filled chock full of 80% nitrogen would make, blow the house off the block maybe?

Seriously confused, all smoked up staring mindlessly at his keyboard. Nitrogen is like oxygen and helium, these gases cannot, will not and do not explode. This is fun to watch man…. like a Chinch and Chong comedy.


----------



## WeedFreak78 (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Seriously confused, all smoked up, and starring mindlessly at his keyboard typing mindless stuff. Brain Storm: Nitrogen is like *oxygen* and helium, these gases cannot, will not and do not explode. This is fun to watch man…. like a Chinch and Chong comedy.


Really, I guess I can tear the flammable label off my oxygen tanks then? My gas supplier must not know what they are talking about.


----------



## J Henry (Apr 4, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Actually you've become such a douche bag that I really don't give a flying fuck what your answer is but yup still amused ....


You are a real potty mouth, your mama and bros in the hood have definitely failed to teach you any aceptable social skills.


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> "Yes nitrogen would be released sumwhere if it was in a enclosed space say good bye to 1/4 of ur place if if ignites from lights heat static ect not a cost effective approach at least not to me anyway.
> 
> Tripp’s is really tripping now, totally lost in a purple haze inside the Other World where scary devils and demons live - the spirit world where those unspeakable things are seen and happen.
> 
> ...


Give it a break dip shit, he made a mistake....wow. If you think this makes you look smart ... Nope, makes you look like a douche. Every time you post you look like a bigger douche than the post before....just a great big giant douche. And no I don't think your a sales guy, I think your a douche that bought this shit, spent loads of money and now trying to justify it by talking down to everyone that disagrees. And if I'm wrong well good luck, giant douches make for terrible salesman


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 4, 2016)

And that's Cheech, douche!


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 4, 2016)

J Henry said:


> You are a real potty mouth, your mama and bros in the hood have definitely failed to teach you any aceptable social skills.


I know and their awfully disappointed with me. Seems we're all potty mouths here ..... Hmmm perhaps it's the copious amounts of THC over the years.....or perhaps you just bring out the potty mouth in people .


----------



## AlphaPhase (Apr 4, 2016)

Tbh, I really want to try this thingy out, I haven't called the guy to ask about testing it yet because I'm moving soon and wont be flowering anything for a couple months.. 

But.. If this thing 100% gets rid of ANY need to add additives to combat pythium, and guaranteed no pythium attacks ever again, this would pay for itself in the first year and save me time. 

That is the question, is it 100% guaranteed to stop all root disease issues, if not, I don't see the point I guess. 

Ill be calling the sales guy when I'm in my new house, none the less. 

OK guys, back to bickering


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 4, 2016)

The concept is interesting re adding O2. But the guy that's trying to tell us about it is an jerk that talks down to people. That alone would stop me from ever running Pentair products but hey maybe he just pushed my buttons. Pentair also sells air pumps and diffusers, not just oxygen generators. Let us know what they have to say please. Not taking what this guy says suriuosly now lol.


----------



## redi jedi (Apr 5, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> Really, I guess I can tear the flammable label off my oxygen tanks then? My gas supplier must not know what they are talking about.


I think your mistaking the flammable label for oxidizer. Oxygen is not flammable by itself.

But say your injecting pure O2 into water and not all of that O2 is being dissolved then the excess must be enriching the atmosphere, correct?

So now lets throw a CO2 burner in the mix, which would provide fuel and an ignition source and you could have a dangerous situation. I doubt an explosion would result but your burner would have a flame like a cutting torch coming out of it...which could be a real problem. Now if you could use DO meter to regulate the oxygen like how we use a CO2 detector it could be done safely. But if you ask @J Henry there is no safety concerns. Besides the safety concerns I question if the expense would even be worth it... 

*Class B *





Flammable
and
Combustible
Material


*Class C*





Oxidizing
Material


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 5, 2016)

Like I said my beef is not "does it work", I don't know. My beef is with a jerk who talks down to everyone who starts asking valid questions


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 5, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> You got me on a typo, good for you.  I'm going to try to saturate my blood with thc. I think I can hit 127% saturation using Henry's Law, and applying fi02 principals.


You probably could if you could find a hyperbolic chamber. Yes Henry I to know a bit about the gas laws lol. They kinda like you to know them before you get your C of Q for refrigeration lol.


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 5, 2016)

J Henry said:


> your mama and bros in the hood have definitely failed to teach you any aceptable social skills.


wow. and then you insult his parents? 

i don't think you are going to close this sale j henry. better work on your social skills a bit more. or else you'll be out of work up in minnetonka. you never did answer how long a drive it is for you to excelsior and o2grow HQ?


----------



## WeedFreak78 (Apr 5, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> You probably could if you could find a hyperbolic chamber.


HA! I started thinking about exactly that after typing that.


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 5, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> You probably could if you could find a hyperbolic chamber.


hey budley,, you must be too high watching that Chinch and Chunk movies. it's hyperbaric chamber. did i tell you how bad the drug laws are in Louisiana yet?? lol.


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 5, 2016)

L


rkymtnman said:


> hey budley,, you must be too high watching that Chinch and Chunk movies. it's hyperbaric chamber. did i tell you how bad the drug laws are in Louisiana yet?? lol.


lol why yes it is and not so much last night but now yes, just picked up a half of grand daddy purp and yup it works lol, and I'm not allowed across the ditch so your laws don't scare me lol.


----------



## Tripp2005 (Apr 5, 2016)

J Henry said:


> "Yes nitrogen would be released sumwhere if it was in a enclosed space say good bye to 1/4 of ur place if if ignites from lights heat static ect not a cost effective approach at least not to me anyway.
> 
> Tripp’s is really tripping now, totally lost in a purple haze inside the Other World where scary devils and demons live - the spirit world where those unspeakable things are seen and happen.
> 
> ...


Lol for real tho I ment hydrogen and it is very flammable may have been I was smoked up or my damn auto correct but being a ass about it show how immature u really are prob a 13 year old troll who daddy is a salesmen lol


----------



## Tripp2005 (Apr 5, 2016)

J Henry said:


> "Yes nitrogen would be released sumwhere if it was in a enclosed space say good bye to 1/4 of ur place if if ignites from lights heat static ect not a cost effective approach at least not to me anyway.
> 
> Tripp’s is really tripping now, totally lost in a purple haze inside the Other World where scary devils and demons live - the spirit world where those unspeakable things are seen and happen.
> 
> ...


Lol for real tho I ment hydrogen and it is very flammable may have been I was smoked up or my damn auto correct but being a ass about it show how immature u really are prob a 13 year old troll who daddy is a salesmen lol


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 6, 2016)

So yes we make the odd stupid mistake when typing shit out......gets worse depending on the quality of the last grow for me lol, I'm pretty much high from the time I get home till bed lol.


----------



## WeedFreak78 (Apr 6, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> So yes we make the odd stupid mistake when typing shit out......gets worse depending on the quality of the last grow for me lol, I'm pretty much high from the time I get home till bed lol.


I smoke within an hour of getting up, then just about every hour after that. My mind is pretty sharp until late at night when i start getting tired. 

The biggest mistake he could find was me saying h202, rather than h20..sorry my swipe keyboard isn't perfect. ..and I already spend too much time proofreading my posts, so I don't sound like a complete idiot because of typos. 

It greatly bothers me when someone expounds on an idea without having the basic knowledge to back up the conversation.


----------



## J Henry (Apr 6, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> Lol for real tho I ment hydrogen and it is very flammable may have been I was smoked up or my damn auto correct but being a ass about it show how immature u really are prob a 13 year old troll who daddy is a salesmen lol


Know what you mean, even growers that are not all smoked up get confused often with all these different gases. They think air is oxygen, even call air oxygen, then they think oxygen is air and call air oxygen and then they even believe more air means = more oxygen… don’t feel bad, all these different gases can be very confusing especially when you don’t really know the difference between them. Many people think oxygen will explode like propane acetylene and are very afraid of it. Hope these people never go to a hospital and the doctors’ orders oxygen and an oxygen mask... then the phobic may need IV Thorazine to sooth his oxygen phobia... it's going to be a psychological mess in that room with pure 100% oxygen running to that O2 mask and the door shut (add a little claustrophobia to the mix) . This is going to be far worse than a bad LSD trip, because this will be real. I’m taking the real acid manufactured by Sandoz Pharmaceuticals. The same acid the Federal Government put on the streets in Village in New York and San Francisco back in the 60’s… not the homemade “acid” bath tub cooks make these days.


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Know what you mean, even growers that are not all smoked up get confused often with all these different gases. They think air is oxygen, even call air oxygen, then they think oxygen is air and call air oxygen and then they even believe more air means = more oxygen… don’t feel bad, all these different gases can be very confusing especially when you don’t really know the difference between them. Many people think oxygen will explode like propane acetylene and are very afraid of it. Hope these people never go to a hospital and the doctors’ orders oxygen and an oxygen mask... then the phobic may need IV Thorazine to sooth his oxygen phobia... it's going to be a psychological mess in that room with pure 100% oxygen running to that O2 mask and the door shut (add a little claustrophobia to the mix) . This is going to be far worse than a bad LSD trip, because this will be real. I’m taking the real acid manufactured by Sandoz Pharmaceuticals. The same acid the Federal Government put on the streets in Village in New York and San Francisco back in the 60’s… not the homemade “acid” bath tub cooks make these days.


yawn. nobody cares. move along, saleslady.


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 6, 2016)

can we change the thread title to "best way to combat salesman of a crappy product"?


----------



## WeedFreak78 (Apr 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Know what you mean, even growers that are not all smoked up get confused often with all these different gases. They think air is oxygen, even call air oxygen, then they think oxygen is air and call air oxygen and then they even believe more air means = more oxygen… don’t feel bad, all these different gases can be very confusing especially when you don’t really know the difference between them. Many people think oxygen will explode like propane acetylene and are very afraid of it. Hope these people never go to a hospital and the doctors’ orders oxygen and an oxygen mask... then the phobic may need IV Thorazine to sooth his oxygen phobia... it's going to be a psychological mess in that room with pure 100% oxygen running to that O2 mask and the door shut (add a little claustrophobia to the mix) . This is going to be far worse than a bad LSD trip, because this will be real. I’m taking the real acid manufactured by Sandoz Pharmaceuticals. The same acid the Federal Government put on the streets in Village in New York and San Francisco back in the 60’s… not the homemade “acid” bath tub cooks make these days.


We'll, depending on how measurements are being taken, more air will equal more oxygen, if measuring overall 02 volume, not if measuring percentages...don’t feel bad, all these different measurements can be very confusing especially when you don’t really know the difference between them..you condensending bastard.
You still can't make and maintain an 02 supersaturated h20 solution at atmospheric pressure and temperature. I think you should go smoke one while using an oxygen mask.....


----------



## J Henry (Apr 6, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> So yes we make the odd stupid mistake when typing shit out......gets worse depending on the quality of the last grow for me lol, I'm pretty much high from the time I get home till bed lol.


Thanks for clarifying your position in life, for some reason I guessed this a while back and was correct. Did you know that chronic doping can results in a numb, incoherent, non-function, convoluted brain function... failure to remember or communicate logically. This failure to communicate intelligently and logically is not a computer keyboard problem. This is no more than drug hazed comedy. Too much dope makes little Johnny say and do really stupid stuff. Like your potty, potty, potty mouth.


----------



## J Henry (Apr 6, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> can we change the thread title to "best way to combat salesman of a crappy product"?


You sure can, just don’t come back and all this goes away… ain’t nothing to it. Good by.


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Good by.


bye, not by.


----------



## WeedFreak78 (Apr 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Thanks for clarifying your position in life, for some reason I guessed this a while back and was correct. Did you know that chronic doping can results in a numb, incoherent, non-function, convoluted brain function... failure to remember or communicate logically. This failure to communicate intelligently and logically is not a computer keyboard problem. This is no more than drug hazed comedy. Too much dope makes little Johnny say and do really stupid stuff. Like your potty, potty, potty mouth.


Have you ever smoked cannabis? Some of the most well respected writers, musicians, scientist and philosophers throughout history have used cannabis..but hey, they were all numb, incoherent, non functioning, convoluted brain function imbeciles. .


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Did you know that chronic doping can results in a numb, incoherent, non-function, convoluted brain function... failure to remember or communicate logically.


amazing factoid. 

guess none of us are so high and incoherent that we believe the load of crap you are spewing. another commission lost, j henry.


----------



## J Henry (Apr 6, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> You still can't make and maintain an 02 supersaturated h20 solution at atmospheric pressure and temperature. I think you should go smoke one while using an oxygen mask....


Is this all there is?


----------



## WeedFreak78 (Apr 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Is this all there is?


Until you either explain, with your understanding, how this is possible, or stop talking out your ass, then yes, that's all there is....

If you can't explain the theories and processes involved, stop discussing it like your an expert. Telling me to call a manufacturer does me no good, I don't want a sales pitch, I want the science behind the concept explained, by a competent, unbiased, individual. 

I know, personally, I would never promote something I couldn't clearly explain to others, seems disingenuous to me. I said it already, you're either a charlatan, or ignorant, which is it?


----------



## J Henry (Apr 6, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> amazing factoid.


Also correct.


----------



## J Henry (Apr 6, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> Until you either explain, with your understanding, how this is possible, or stop talking out your ass, then yes, that's all there is....
> 
> If you can't explain the theories and processes involved, stop discussing it like your an expert. Telling me to call a manufacturer does me no good, I don't want a sales pitch, I want the science behind the concept explained, by a competent, unbiased, individual.
> 
> I know, personally, I would never promote something I couldn't clearly explain to others, seems disingenuous to me. I said it already, you're either a charlatan, or ignorant, which is it?


That’s all there is for you, good by dope head.


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> That’s all there is for you, good by dope head.


best news i heard all week. 

p.s. it's "bye", not "by", shithead.


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 6, 2016)

2 rules of sales:

know your product
know your target audience

fail and fail. aufwiedersehn!


----------



## J Henry (Apr 6, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> best news i heard all week.
> 
> p.s. it's "bye", not "by", shithead


Another doped up potty mouth.... the comedy is back!


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Another doped up potty mouth.... the comedy is back!


good one! 

another douchebag salesman. how's it going today, Biff??


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Another doped up potty mouth.... the comedy is back!


I thought you said good by lol.


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 6, 2016)

Pot ..... The gate way drug to potty mouth


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 6, 2016)

J Henry said:


> That’s all there is for you, good by dope head.


That's all there is because you've been asked questions you are unable to provide answers for. Your like a kid having a tantrum when things don't go your way. God I hope I'm talking to the air, nothing would make me happier than to see your douche attitude leave and never return.


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 6, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Pot ..... The gate way drug to potty mouth


oh shit, is that why i'm potty mouth too? holy fuck. thanks budley. i'll cut out THC and my cursing will subside. thank you brother!


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 6, 2016)

can i get a fucking amen! j henry!


----------



## Tripp2005 (Apr 6, 2016)

Anyway I just got some hydro guard and some bennies going to make some h-berg tea this is one way to combat root rot that has had very good success from what I've read just applied hydro guard be about 46 hours before I apply the tea will update once I see some results with pics roots already look OK but rather be proactive then reactive


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 6, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> Anyway I just got some hydro guard and some bennies going to make some h-berg tea this is one way to combat root rot that has had very good success from what I've read just applied hydro guard be about 46 hours before I apply the tea will update once I see some results with pics roots already look OK but rather be proactive then reactive


I gave up on the tea only because for what I was doing the hydroguard seems to be doing a great job on its own,


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 7, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> roots already look OK but rather be proactive then reactive


yep. reactive is too late usually. i prefer sterile res but bennies work equally well.


----------



## Tripp2005 (Apr 7, 2016)

Soo in 24 hours the root gaurd doubled my root mass and the plant grew at least a in in a day crazy stuff. these clones I got where almost dead and bennies totally brought them back healthy as ever you should deff try a few runs with and with out there is such a difference if I had gone sterile I would have deff lost them they where so bad off they wouldn't have been able yo handle it but the 3 strains are sum of the danks smoke I have had in 20 years holy grail a nice rock solid bud MOB phenotype with super high potency and blue dream haze the real deal had to spend a little cash but I think there gunna do just fine I'll post some pics in a bit


----------



## Tripp2005 (Apr 8, 2016)

Before pic . After these I added hydroguard as directed the next day added 3 scoops of plant success to a half a cup of water mixed and tossed in res while I waited for tea to brew


----------



## Tripp2005 (Apr 8, 2016)

After 24 hours hydroguard they loved it made the ones without roots outta the net cup start coming out


----------



## Tripp2005 (Apr 8, 2016)

And today so 36 after hydroguard and 24 after plant success 

In hydro blue dream x . Mobx1 holy grailx1
In soil 2 diff gsc
Critical kush in back 
And seedling of liberty haze 
Clones in homemade dome lol seems to stay moist better then my shorter one all soil got a good watering with bennies as well all seem to love it


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

It's great stuff (hydroguard). Save my grow. Would like to try a few different things as well just to see if there is a cheaper alternative but it's gonna be hard to beat the results IMO.


----------



## J Henry (Apr 9, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> It's great stuff (hydroguard). Save my grow. Would like to try a few different things as well just to see if there is a cheaper alternative but it's gonna be hard to beat the results IMO.


Hydroguard is cheap @ $27 a jug but there’s often a serious conflict here that you may or may not be aware of… _B. amyloliquefaciens_ hates chilled water 65F-68F passionately, just like people hate cold water, these bennies love and thrive in warm-hot water.

_Bacillus amyloliquefaciens are gram positive rods with peritrichous flagella allowing motility. The cells often appear as long chains unlike many other Bacillus species that form as single cells. The optimal temperature for cellular growth is between *30 and 40 degrees Celsius*. Similar to other Bacillus species, B. amyloliquefaciens forms endospores allowing survival for a long period of time. Endospores appear centrally in the cells which do not have a swollen appearance._

30 - 40 C = 84 - 104F Clearly they like it warm.


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Hydroguard is cheap @ $27 a jug but there’s often a serious conflict here that you may or may not be aware of… _B. amyloliquefaciens_ hates chilled water 65F-68F passionately, just like people hate cold water, these bennies love and thrive in warm-hot water.
> 
> _Bacillus amyloliquefaciens are gram positive rods with peritrichous flagella allowing motility. The cells often appear as long chains unlike many other Bacillus species that form as single cells. The optimal temperature for cellular growth is between *30 and 40 degrees Celsius*. Similar to other Bacillus species, B. amyloliquefaciens forms endospores allowing survival for a long period of time. Endospores appear centrally in the cells which do not have a swollen appearance._
> 
> 30 - 40 C = 84 - 104F Clearly they like it warm.


Really!!!! I thought you had left the building. . Hmmm yes the observational evidence is wrong then. And prices differ from country to country FYI, clearly you need to get out more, double that price here and your close. Clearly, yes you like your water warm, get it! Yes you want everyone to buy a DO meter, get it! Yes you want everyone to add supplemental oxygen, get it. Yes you want everyone to increase the atmospheric pressure in the grow room, not sure I get that one! Clearly you have no proof anything you say works, haven't seen a pic of any grow you've done? Oh yes right, scared of getting busted, as you should be, it's happening all the time here due to member content, just look at the threads that reflect that!!! Please fuck off from this thread as you offer no true solutions or examples and you are a douche (see all previous threads you have contributed too, I use contributed too very loosely) and before you again call me a potty mouth let me remind you of a quote of yours "gfy and your Mama too." Now again just fuck off. God there are only a few on here that really grind my gears and make me a not very nice guy and yup you sir are a top contender! See now you've got me all agitated lol.


----------



## Tripp2005 (Apr 9, 2016)

I'm not worried bout getting in trouble I am all leagel and the thing is is I don't care if they like it 80 my res stays 65-69 and there are working just fine an it also allows me to run my resume at a higher temp if I so choose and help the plants eat and flourish so in my opinion its deff one of the best ways to combat/prevent root rot or brown algee slime that works and doesn't cost as much as the ddo meter could get 20 bottles of this stuff or make ur own for way cheaper deff a must have for any setup


----------



## Tripp2005 (Apr 9, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Hydroguard is cheap @ $27 a jug but there’s often a serious conflict here that you may or may not be aware of… _B. amyloliquefaciens_ hates chilled water 65F-68F passionately, just like people hate cold water, these bennies love and thrive in warm-hot water.
> 
> _Bacillus amyloliquefaciens are gram positive rods with peritrichous flagella allowing motility. The cells often appear as long chains unlike many other Bacillus species that form as single cells. The optimal temperature for cellular growth is between *30 and 40 degrees Celsius*. Similar to other Bacillus species, B. amyloliquefaciens forms endospores allowing survival for a long period of time. Endospores appear centrally in the cells which do not have a swollen appearance._
> 
> 30 - 40 C = 84 - 104F Clearly they like it warm.


Also I think that's why u brew a tea helps them grow before putting them into ur system the number of bennies is high and a lot will most likely die in then next 3 days but it works and doesn't cost 1000s of dollors


----------



## J Henry (Apr 9, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Really!!!! I thought you had left the building. . Hmmm yes the observational evidence is wrong then. And prices differ from country to country FYI, clearly you need to get out more, double that price here and your close. Clearly, yes you like your water warm, get it! Yes you want everyone to buy a DO meter, get it! Yes you want everyone to add supplemental oxygen, get it. Yes you want everyone to increase the atmospheric pressure in the grow room, not sure I get that one! Clearly you have no proof anything you say works, haven't seen a pic of any grow you've done? Oh yes right, scared of getting busted, as you should be, it's happening all the time here due to member content, just look at the threads that reflect that!!! Please fuck off from this thread as you offer no true solutions or examples and you are a douche (see all previous threads you have contributed too, I use contributed too very loosely) and before you again call me a potty mouth let me remind you of a quote of yours "gfy and your Mama too." Now again just fuck off. God there are only a few on here that really grind my gears and make me a not very nice guy and yup you sir are a top contender! See now you've got me all agitated lol.


Clearly all doped up again this morning I see, potty mouth running as usual. No changes SOS, tacky, tack, tacky.


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## J Henry (Apr 9, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> Also I think that's why u brew a tea helps them grow before putting them into ur system the number of bennies is high and a lot will most likely die in then next 3 days but it works and doesn't cost 1000s of dollors


Well that's certainly an opinion, bennies are cheap anyway.


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## J Henry (Apr 9, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> I'm not worried bout getting in trouble I am all leagel and the thing is is I don't care if they like it 80 my res stays 65-69 and there are working just fine an it also allows me to run my resume at a higher temp if I so choose and help the plants eat and flourish so in my opinion its deff one of the best ways to combat/prevent root rot or brown algee slime that works and doesn't cost as much as the ddo meter could get 20 bottles of this stuff or make ur own for way cheaper deff a must have for any setup


Now then fearless, open up and tell my how you really feel.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> Also I think that's why u brew a tea helps them grow before putting them into ur system the number of bennies is high and a lot will most likely die in then next 3 days but it works and doesn't cost 1000s of dollors


I would like to think there is also a symbiotic relationship between the plant and the numerous microbes in the tea but have no scientific proof or personal "picture proof" but the plants did well when I brewed the stuff. This is what I will try next run in the fall when back inside


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 9, 2016)

Well I proved it works with pics a lot better then what you've been trying to push with no evidence u say it works but haven't proved anything so why are u on here trolling everyone's post seems like u started a thread to troll it to me but whatever floats your boat


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## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Now then fearless, open up and tell my how you really feel.


Yup there ya go.....being a douche again. Just can't help it can ya....


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 9, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I would like to think there is also a symbiotic relationship between the plant and the numerous microbes in the tea but have no scientific proof or personal "picture proof" but the plants did well when I brewed the stuff. This is what I will try next run in the fall when back inside View attachment 3653186


From all the info I've been reading I believe they do they feed each other and help each other thrive and I mean u could run thses a week or to to give a boost or fix prob then go back to a sterile red if that's what anyone prefers this van be used as a quick fix or the whole run right into flowing orob not the last month dunno bout taste or yeald but I'll update this after harvest


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## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

Taste does not seem to be effected in my grows but I'm growing a strain right now that....nope not the tastiest but not blaming anything but strain and me, picked it a tad earlier than I like on the first run .


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 9, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Taste does not seem to be effected in my grows but I'm growing a strain right now that....nope not the tastiest but not blaming anything but strain and me, picked it a tad earlier than I like on the first run .


Nice ya its really hard to wait your first couple runs but those last few weeks the buds swell and fill up with all that goodness


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## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> Nice ya its really hard to wait your first couple runs but those last few weeks the buds swell and fill up with all that goodness


It wasn't that I wanted to pull em but my vegging girls were getting too large and needed to be moved to the flowering room . I need more rooms, and bigger rooms


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## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

And more chiller loops .


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## J Henry (Apr 9, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> From all the info I've been reading I believe they do they feed each other and help each other thrive and I mean u could run thses a week or to to give a boost or fix prob then go back to a sterile red if that's what anyone prefers this van be used as a quick fix or the whole run right into flowing orob not the last month dunno bout taste or yeald but I'll update this after harvest


Having a Eureka moment are you?


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## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Clearly all doped up again this morning I see, potty mouth running as usual. No changes SOS, tacky, tack, tacky.


Clearly still a douche I see. So in your own words "GFY and your momma too" lol ..... fucking douche!


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## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Having a Eureka moment are you?


No he's having what is a personal belief and unlike you will not resort to belittling people if they don't agree....really do you ever stop....being a douche I mean? Are you like this in real life or just a keyboard douche? If your ever up this way let me know we'll grab a coffee .


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## J Henry (Apr 9, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> No he's having what is a personal belief and unlike you will not resort to belittling people if they don't agree....really do you ever stop....being a douche I mean? Are you like this in real life or just a keyboard douche? If your ever up this way let me know we'll grab a coffee .


OK


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## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

J Henry said:


> OK


See! I think we could be buddies .


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## J Henry (Apr 9, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> See! I think we could be buddies .


OK


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 9, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Having a Eureka moment are you?


Having some nice healthy plants is what I'm concerned about and I read all the time and research so everyday has a eureka moment don't get why your being so childish unless mabey ur a child that trolls sites to be a arrogant troll nothing you have posted on this thread will help anyone so I put some real pics to actually see some evidence clearly you don't use as medican or you wouldn't be a ass to people for being stoned or feeling the effects of whatever strain helps them just pick must make you feel better huh? Cause ur still doing it I thought this site was for adults thanks for nothing but some info I could have googled myself peace going to start a new thread about the same thing just without the salesmen troll


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## kmog33 (Apr 9, 2016)

Good Nutes and Rez temps around 65 always plus no light leaks. Bam, no root rot or Pythium 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 9, 2016)

The root rot norm come from brown slime algee they live perfectly in no light even after taking every precaution people can still end up with this algee which If left untreated will smother roots and root rot will set in however sum people are lucky enough to be able to run a dwc with out any Bennie or hydeoguard ect without ever having any issues I'm proactive not reactive


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## rkymtnman (Apr 9, 2016)

J Henry said:


> _Bacillus amyloliquefaciens are gram positive rods with peritrichous flagella allowing motility. The cells often appear as long chains unlike many other Bacillus species that form as single cells. The optimal temperature for cellular growth is between *30 and 40 degrees Celsius*. Similar to other Bacillus species, B. amyloliquefaciens forms endospores allowing survival for a long period of time. Endospores appear centrally in the cells which do not have a swollen appearance._
> 
> 30 - 40 C = 84 - 104F Clearly they like it warm.


care to quote your source? or is it coming out your arse like usual?


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## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

Honestly I was trying to ignore this guy but I just can't lol. First thread he made was basically a question as to does this (saturated O2 levels) help. It quickly became apparent that his agenda was to berate and belittle any who disagreed. There has not been any other subject matter or any other grow related discussion. Seems he's a one subject kinda guy, kind of a one trick pony lol. Must have spent a whole shit load of time googling this but not enough to answer the really tough questions ....."call this number they'll tell ya" Fucking fell off my chair when he said that lol.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> The root rot norm come from brown slime algee they live perfectly in no light even after taking every precaution people can still end up with this algee which I'd left untreated will smother roots and root rot will set in however sum people are lucky enough to be able to run a dwc with out any Bennie or hydeoguard ect without ever having any issues I'm proactive not reactive


I am now, thought I was before to lol.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 9, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Honestly I was trying to ignore this guy but I just can't lol.


i know, me too! i love how he deflects from any questions by telling totally off topic stories and anecdotes. 

funny that he talks down to us and he's the one that uses his real name on a growing site. Hola Senor Dumas!


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## J Henry (Apr 9, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> care to quote your source? or is it coming out your arse like usual?


Potty, potty, potty mouth... all doped up, drugged out and stupid as yesterday... to lazy to drugged to do a Google Search? Here, let me help you mindless one. Just click this: https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Bacillus_amyloliquefaciens
Or maybe have your Bud click it for you.... but, who's going to read it to you.

I'm so, so disappointed, I thought me and little potty mouth Bud were going to be buddies today, but the little stinker tricked me..... OK, I'm over it now, that was quick.


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## J Henry (Apr 9, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> The root rot norm come from brown slime algee they live perfectly in no light even after taking every precaution people can still end up with this algee which I'd left untreated will smother roots and root rot will set in however sum people are lucky enough to be able to run a dwc with out any Bennie or hydeoguard ect without ever having any issues I'm proactive not reactive


 Just cant prevent the disease can you, you love to fight the disease don't you treatment guy.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 9, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Potty, potty, potty mouth... all doped up, drugged out and stupid as yesterday... to lazy to drugged to do a Google Search? Here, let me help you mindless one. Just click this: https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Bacillus_amyloliquefaciens
> Or maybe have your Bud click it for you.... but, who's going to read it to you.



hahaha. you stupid, doped up, potty mouth, PLAGIARIST! i busted you, you semi-literate retard.

i did a google search. it came back to this. verbatim what you stole. 

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/hygrozyme-hydroguard.64161/#post-1269630 see post #4

you really should give JCOM credit when you steal other people's posts. 

bad, bad, bad salesman!


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 9, 2016)

I don't even have the brown slime man like I've been saying rather be proactive then reactive and by doing so I'm preventing so think before you type and reading helps as well troll if u can that is anyway don't see why you keep saying smug ass shit seems like u have a case of diarrhea at the mouth


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## J Henry (Apr 9, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> hahaha. you stupid, doped up, potty mouth, PLAGIARIST! i busted you, you semi-literate retard.
> 
> i did a google search. it came back to this. verbatim what you stole.
> 
> ...


Is your mama watching?


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 9, 2016)

I'm done posting here peace to everyone but jhernry he's a asshole lol


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## rkymtnman (Apr 9, 2016)

nope, but yours is tossing my salad right now. she says Hi !

since you steal other's posts, why don't you steal their pics and show us all how great your O2 injection works?. 

see what happens when an intelligent stoner meets a retarded salesman? you lose.


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## J Henry (Apr 9, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> I don't even have the brown slime man like I've been saying rather be proactive then reactive and by doing so I'm preventing so think before you type and reading helps as well troll if u can that is anyway don't see why you keep saying smug ass shit seems like u have a case of diarrhea at the mouth


Wind him up, open the gate and watch him go... like an excited rat on a treadmill chasing his tail, no where to go... I am watching textbook behavior of a classic genetic social malfunction in real time. This is a great psychological demonstration in real time.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

"I'm so, so disappointed, I thought me and little potty mouth Bud were going to be buddies today, but the little stinker tricked me..... OK, I'm over it now, that was quick." 
LOL yup that's me a little stinker  but just to clarify ...... I believe it was you that was first of the line by telling someone to go fuck themselves and not to stop there but to tell him to go fuck his mom as well. Bet you had to do a bit of self whipping for that one, you do sound like a flagellant. Perhaps take s couple for me as well, I am a little stinker after all ....... What a douche


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## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Wind him up, open the gate and watch him go... like an excited rat on a treadmill chasing his tail, no where to go... I am watching textbook behavior of a classic genetic social malfunction in real time. This is a great psychological demonstration in real time.


Yes isn't it, classic "I'm ok but he's not" ...... Again classic douche bag! Yes yes I know I've overused that but just about perfectly describes you.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 9, 2016)

hey budley, did you see on the last page where i busted ms. henry for stealing other's posts.

naughty, naughty. 

should we call him post-booster from now on?


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## J Henry (Apr 9, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> "I'm so, so disappointed, I thought me and little potty mouth Bud were going to be buddies today, but the little stinker tricked me..... OK, I'm over it now, that was quick."
> LOL yup that's me a little stinker  but just to clarify ...... I believe it was you that was first of the line by telling someone to go fuck themselves and not to stop there but to tell him to go fuck his mom as well. Bet you had to do a bit of self whipping for that one, you do sound like a flagellant. Perhaps take s couple for me as well, I am a little stinker after all ....... What a douche


Just playing with 2 social misfits, that are all drugged up. It's kinda fun in a twisted way winding you and tripper up and watching you reactl. Like pulling the antenna off a June bug's head and watch what he does.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

Yes it is but whose playing who lol. And yup kinda figured you for a bug torturing douche. Now that you've been ridiculed and shot down in every thread you've been on as a post stealing douche, perhaps you should just move along and go to another forum and try this again, but I doubt that will happen, sadly I think your here to stay but that's ok, I've decided trolling your ass is an ok pass time while I'm stoned lol.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Just playing with 2 social misfits, that are all drugged up. It's kinda fun in a twisted way winding you and tripper up and watching you reactl. Like pulling the antenna off a June bug's head and watch what he does.


Also you may not have notice but this is a primarily a "marijuana growing forum" so drugged up is probably the theme of the day and yes I'm kinda proud that my oxygen deprived weed gets me "drugged up" ..... Fuck what a douche lol.


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## J Henry (Apr 9, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Also you may not have notice but this is a primarily a "marijuana growing forum" so drugged up is probably the theme of the day and yes I'm kinda proud that my oxygen deprived weed gets me "drugged up" ..... Fuck what a douche lol.


Hay Bobby, are you and Jack on line watching this dysfunctional social interaction?

I was afraid my new dysfunctional potty mouth acquaintances had left for the day but they are still here. Buddy, trippy, and tricky-rky are special…Tricky, he’s my favorite head, he has special needs. Buddy is clearly social dysfunctional, his antisocial verbal communication (potty mouth syndrome) is vulgar and persistent; trippy is just probably wasted 24/7, he's probably just limited-out in his life time. My new acquaintances are like Whirling Dervishes spinning aimlessly off the table continuously striving to reach the otro mundo or… maybe they are more like 3 cucarachas that split a little hit of RAID cucaracha spray and over dosed, dazed, combative, over stimulated, upside down with all legs wiggling. Not enough RAID to be fatal, yet enough chemical to cause brain damage that is noticeable.

OK, you guys Dx this in 30 seconds and don’t laugh out loud either. That’s unprofessional and you know it. See you at work Tuesday.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

Hey Bobby, Jack see what an unprofessional jerk you have on your payroll. Everyone he's interacted with here has called him out for being a pretentious jerk. He's failed to actually convince anyone that what he says has any validity and continues to participate in what is obviously forum trolling, the difference between him and I is I'm not a rep of a company (supposedly but thank your gods no names mentioned) just a guy wasting a weekend trolling this asshole. .


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## Budley Doright (Apr 9, 2016)

And yup time to get back to the real world ...... busy, busy, the floor is yours as the saying goes, it's been a slice .


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 9, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Just playing with 2 social misfits, that are all drugged up. It's kinda fun in a twisted way winding you and tripper up and watching you reactl. Like pulling the antenna off a June bug's head and watch what he does
> Lol I'm not even close to wound up buddy in fact I think its funny that you started a post to troll and waste everyone's time shows your the one with the prob


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 9, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Hay Bobby, are you and Jack on line watching this dysfunctional social interaction?
> 
> I was afraid my new dysfunctional potty mouth acquaintances had left for the day but they are still here. Buddy, trippy, and tricky-rky are special…Tricky, he’s my favorite head, he has special needs. Buddy is clearly social dysfunctional, his antisocial verbal communication (potty mouth syndrome) is vulgar and persistent; trippy is just probably wasted 24/7, he's probably just limited-out in his life time. My new acquaintances are like Whirling Dervishes spinning aimlessly off the table continuously striving to reach the otro mundo or… maybe they are more like 3 cucarachas that split a little hit of RAID cucaracha spray and over dosed, dazed, combative, over stimulated, upside down with all legs wiggling. Not enough RAID to be fatal, yet enough chemical to cause brain damage that is noticeable.
> 
> OK, you guys Dx this in 30 seconds and don’t laugh out loud either. That’s unprofessional and you know it. See you at work Tuesday.


Lol ya your a real peace of work your self buddy think ur gunna sell any of those rip of o2 generator's now lol as far as wasted goes I don't get wasted I medicate at night and never during the day hope u get the help that is clearly needed till then have a great nite troll


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## rkymtnman (Apr 10, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Hay Bobby, are you and Jack on line watching this dysfunctional social interaction?


our little post stealer thinks that bobby and jack kennedy are watching him online. he's stuck in the 1960's where phrases like potty mouth were popular

talk about a social experiment! we've got a delusional social outcast right up in good ole Minnetonka MN that thinks the gov't is after him and the Kennedy clan is following him on RIU. 

did your mommy not breastfeed you long enough? or did daddy not pay enough attention to little J when he was growing up?


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## OGMMJ (Apr 24, 2016)

Hey guys, so I am dealing with a root rot problem with low Rez temps, I believe it was caused by my rez color being grey and I think it could have been letting the slightest bit of light through and caused some brown slime algae (pump and hose was smiley during Rez change) I immediately bathed all the plants in the tub in a h2o2 and water solution while I rebuilt my veg unit, I'm running the Stinkbud vegger system so two tubs stacked on one another, the new tubs are the black ones with yellow lids, I painted my top lid black so and now with the lower tub being black as well I believe I fixed the light issue if that was the cause of the algae which was the cause of the root rot (I'm assuming) now my question is do you think I will be safe from here on out with stored RO water, black tubs vs the grey and dark blue I was using before, botanicare kind plus additives. Will be adding pondzyme and hydroguard very soon, just wondering if I should still be trying on these plants or just can them and start fresh, (they were bagseed to test the system for curveballs  such as this!) the plants are young, less then a month old, one of the plants that was infected I just cut all the roots off and put in the cloner just to see if that would be an option, but my question is only the older 3 plants have any brown roots, all the younger plants roots look healthy and white but they are all in the same system so I'm worried even after getting the light leak out of the equation and adding h2o2 to my nutrient solution if I still took one step forward two steps back by putting the infected plants back into the new veg system.

Thanks guys, (I knew I should have just bought one of those 400 dollar oxy machines and ran 78 degree Rez temps and I wouldn't have this problem) lolol j guy

Actually I have an extra oxygen concentrator laying around from my glassblowing studio... If you guys help me out with this brown slime out of no where maybe I'll hook it up to its own system just to see if it would ever possibly justify running a huge bulky oxy con for a hydro rez. (Doubtful) but willing to try! 

Btw I am using stored reverse osmosis water which brings me to this concern.... Could my whole water storage barrel already be contaminated and therefore any water I use from my stored water will instantly start a bad bacteria ecosystem


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## Budley Doright (Apr 24, 2016)

You've got some decisions to make huh lol. If it was me, I would start fresh with new everything if I had to do it again as I wasted valuable time fucking with it. And also thought I had that something special strain, not so much lol. And yes get back to us re OG, I never said it wouldn't work, just thought he was a douche who didn't know anything about actual growing, but hopefully gone .


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## Budley Doright (Apr 24, 2016)

Oh and the $400 was just the meter


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## OGMMJ (Apr 24, 2016)

Hey budley! Thanks for the reply! As in start fresh do you mean ditch all the plants all the stored RO water and all the tubs themselves or just the plants and fresh Rez change? Wondering if I'm going to need to ditch the entire 55 gallons of RO water I have stored? Not exactly the easiest thing to get out of the basement  

Update, checked on them this morning and the Rez temps is 62 so just to reassure everyone it's not even like the Rez got over 70 or anything even for a short amount of time, so really guys do I need to pitch everything or should I ride it out with the h2o2 and kind nutes? Should I change it real quick to only water and h2o2 with absolutely no nutes? And wait until th hydroguard and pondzyme arrive and then do a new nutrient mix with 

Botanicare kind; base and grow
Liquid karma
Pure blend pro tea
Hydroguard 
Pondzyme 

I am also familiar with ewc teas from my soil times and have ewc here and with hydroguard and pondzyme coming 2 day shipping  should I let it do its thing until I can brew up some hydroguard, ewc and pondzyme and add that to the Rez alone with the line up above? 

Thanks guys just really don't know what I should do, here's a pic of the only plant in there that I care about,


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## Budley Doright (Apr 24, 2016)

Well I would start totally fresh but that's just me and I use well water so not a huge deal. Can you not just pump out the RO water and make new stuff? Not sure if it's necessary though, I really don't know. I stopped using teas as the hydroguard works quite well for now. I got the rot when using tea and a pond product . It was temps though in my case. Root zone temps got real high even as Res stayed at 70. How long before the stuff gets to you?


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## Budley Doright (Apr 24, 2016)

As for painting the upper lid black that's what I did as well and yes it blocked light but caused the interior of the tote to get up into the high 70's. I insulated the tote and lowered the temps in the root zone. I did a number of things when I got hit and threw everything I had at it so picking one definitive thing is impossible but with the chiller, hydroguard and insulating, everything is doing real well.


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## OGMMJ (Apr 24, 2016)

Good to know! That's a good thought I will move my thermometer for my water up into the ambient air inside the root area, (inside the upper tub in my case) and see what those temps are, that could possibly be getting to warm; only thing is with the tent max temp at 70 and my water at 62 I'm not sure the root zone temps are going to be to high, also there is only a 250 watt CFL over the vegger and th cloner. I was considering floating a bag of activated carbon in my stored ro water, but I do not see any growth in that container, I'm thinking it was just my mistake of adding EVERYTHING but bennies So basically when I got the rot i had 
Botanicare kind base and grow
Liquid karma
Ph down
Pure blend pro tea 

And I'm assuming all that without any hydroguard or pondzyme created a perfect environment for bad bacteria growth, hoping with my new light proof tub and Rez change to just base grow and h2o2 it won't come back, but my issue is the plants sitting in the tub already have the rot, so won't I just get it immediately once the peroxide fades off? The hydroguard and pondzyme will be here by Tuesday, probably the hydroguard tomorrow, Amazon prime


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## Budley Doright (Apr 24, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Good to know! That's a good thought I will move my thermometer for my water up into the ambient air inside the root area, (inside the upper tub in my case) and see what those temps are, that could possibly be getting to warm; only thing is with the tent max temp at 70 and my water at 62 I'm not sure the root zone temps are going to be to high, also there is only a 250 watt CFL over the vegger and th cloner. I was considering floating a bag of activated carbon in my stored ro water, but I do not see any growth in that container, I'm thinking it was just my mistake of adding EVERYTHING but bennies So basically when I got the rot i had
> Botanicare kind base and grow
> Liquid karma
> Ph down
> ...


Yes check the root zone just to see. And yup it's there and you'll need to keep it at bay at least until your stuff arrives. And I'm not saying H2O2 doesn't work, just not for me lol. Charcoal does not kill anything FYI just removes odours. Maybe just sterilize the shit out of the Rez with peroxide if you don't refill it. I did have a bit of a light leak in my new setup but it just seemed to stop roots from growing where it was, didn't turn em brown. Good luck and hope it goes well.


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## OGMMJ (Apr 24, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Yes check the root zone just to see. And yup it's there and you'll need to keep it at bay at least until your stuff arrives. And I'm not saying H2O2 doesn't work, just not for me lol. Charcoal does not kill anything FYI just removes odours. Maybe just sterilize the shit out of the Rez with peroxide if you don't refill it. I did have a bit of a light leak in my new setup but it just seemed to stop roots from growing where it was, didn't turn em brown. Good luck and hope it goes well.


Thanks a lot man! I will scrub the Rez with peroxide and then put just half tap water half RO and I'll put roughly 15mls per gallon of the 3% h2o2 and I will report back after 24 hours or so, when my hydroguard arrives i will run that along side of base and grow and do you think I should add lk or pure blend pro tea or should I run just the base and grow and HG for a week or so and wait and see if it gets better before adding bennies ?


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## J Henry (Apr 24, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> I will scrub the Rez with peroxide and then put just half tap water half RO and I'll put roughly 15mls per gallon of the 3% h2o2 and I will report back after 24 hours or so, when my hydroguard arrives i will run that along side of base and grow and do you think I should add lk or pure blend pro tea or should I run just the base and grow and HG for a week or so and wait and see if it gets better before adding bennies ?


It’s may be cheaper and easier to buy dope from Bud than trying to grow it. Too much lost time, cost and aggravation treating rot diseases and that gets real old after 1-2-5 outbreaks and crop failures. Keep the chiller running 24/7, keep the water cold and still catch a dose; how in the world can that happen?

All this stuff, time and angst just to treat a big dose of root rot… and what then when all this fails? Buy new stuff, buckets, pumps, tubes and start over.

Just wondering… how much did you pay for this stuff?

Botanicare kind; base and grow
Liquid karma
Pure blend pro tea
Hydroguard 
Pondzyme

Hydrogen peroxide

Clorox

Water chiller
Ph down


Preventing a dose of the root rot disease is cheaper. All you need to do is keep the plants and the bennies heathy… but that can be challenging. If you fail to keep the plants and the bennies healthy… you will catch a dose of the root rot.


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## OGMMJ (Apr 24, 2016)

J Henry said:


> It’s may be cheaper and easier to buy dope from Bud than trying to grow it. Too much lost time, cost and aggravation treating rot diseases and that gets real old after 1-2-5 outbreaks and crop failures. Keep the chiller running 24/7, keep the water cold and still catch a dose; how in the world can that happen?
> 
> All this stuff, time and angst just to treat a big dose of root rot… and what then when all this fails? Buy new stuff, buckets, pumps, tubes and start over.
> 
> ...


Is this real? Why in the world would you be on a growing forum recommending people to "buy dope" I have had much success in the past and I will continue in the future this is the first two weeks of a brand new system to me, I think I'll get the kinks worked out, but thanks for you help man lol.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 24, 2016)

J Henry said:


> It’s may be cheaper and easier to buy dope from Bud than trying to grow it. Too much lost time, cost and aggravation treating rot diseases and that gets real old after 1-2-5 outbreaks and crop failures. Keep the chiller running 24/7, keep the water cold and still catch a dose; how in the world can that happen?
> 
> All this stuff, time and angst just to treat a big dose of root rot… and what then when all this fails? Buy new stuff, buckets, pumps, tubes and start over.
> 
> ...


I charge $200 an ounce so nope probably not .


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## Budley Doright (Apr 24, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Thanks a lot man! I will scrub the Rez with peroxide and then put just half tap water half RO and I'll put roughly 15mls per gallon of the 3% h2o2 and I will report back after 24 hours or so, when my hydroguard arrives i will run that along side of base and grow and do you think I should add lk or pure blend pro tea or should I run just the base and grow and HG for a week or so and wait and see if it gets better before adding bennies ?


I just run the base nutes and hydroguard as well as vitanimo, both at half the recommended dose, seems to work well.


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## OGMMJ (Apr 24, 2016)

Awesome thanks again bud, for now I will let it run its course and watch for the rot to spread and when the hydroguard gets here in the next day or so I will remix the Rez solution with just bontanicare base and botanicare grow as well as the hydroguard. You do not run h2o2 if running hydroguard correct? Hydroguard is beneficial bacteria ?


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## Budley Doright (Apr 24, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Awesome thanks again bud, for now I will let it run its course and watch for the rot to spread and when the hydroguard gets here in the next day or so I will remix the Rez solution with just bontanicare base and botanicare grow as well as the hydroguard. You do not run h2o2 if running hydroguard correct? Hydroguard is beneficial bacteria ?


Correct . Also I would make sure all of the H2O2 has been flushed before adding it.


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## OGMMJ (Apr 24, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Correct . Also I would make sure all of the H2O2 has been flushed before adding it.


Thanks!! I promise I am well educated on the subject lol just this algae out of no where through me through a loop, thought I had a good understanding of what caused root rot and algae growth and had it under control, but seems I was missing one of the most important parts over temps and water quality and that's beneficial microbes  should have thought that through from my knowledge from brewing ewc teas for outdoor soil grows. 

Anyways much excited for the hydroguard and thick healthy white roots  (until the humid acid dyes them brown again) 

One more question if you don't mind me asking you mentioned not having secondary roots yet, I was kind of wondering that myself as it seems the plants are still shooting roots straight down all clumped together like they are searching for water when I thought they should be "spider webbing" off one another, my timer runs for 50 seconds on and 5 minutes off, not sure why the roots are growing the way they are.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 24, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Thanks!! I promise I am well educated on the subject lol just this algae out of no where through me through a loop, thought I had a good understanding of what caused root rot and algae growth and had it under control, but seems I was missing one of the most important parts over temps and water quality and that's beneficial microbes  should have thought that through from my knowledge from brewing ewc teas for outdoor soil grows.
> 
> Anyways much excited for the hydroguard and thick healthy white roots  (until the humid acid dyes them brown again)
> 
> One more question if you don't mind me asking you mentioned not having secondary roots yet, I was kind of wondering that myself as it seems the plants are still shooting roots straight down all clumped together like they are searching for water when I thought they should be "spider webbing" off one another, my timer runs for 50 seconds on and 5 minutes off, not sure why the roots are growing the way they are.


I found using H2O2 that the clumping never went away and that was a sign that the rot was still there. If you go to my OH ZONE thread there are some pics of different roots, rotten to healthy. Do you have pics of what I have going on? I can't get my lid open to take any, I'm a week from harvest lol.


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## OGMMJ (Apr 24, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I found using H2O2 that the clumping never went away and that was a sign that the rot was still there. If you go to my OH ZONE thread there are some pics of different roots, rotten to healthy. Do you have pics of what I have going on? I can't get my lid open to take any, I'm a week from harvest lol.


Hey I snapped a pic of my roots when I lift up my lid and moved my thermometer to underneath a net pot, still hasn't went above 65 but It might rise overnight seeing as my light is running 24/7 right now in the tent


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## Budley Doright (Apr 24, 2016)

Yikes!!!!


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## J Henry (Apr 24, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Is this real? Why in the world would you be on a growing forum recommending people to "buy dope" I have had much success in the past and I will continue in the future this is the first two weeks of a brand new system to me, I think I'll get the kinks worked out, but thanks for you help man lol.


No problem. Just thought it may be cheaper to buy dope if the root rot a is eating you up already, that's all. This out really catastrophic with a new 2 week old system to take a disease hit that quickly.

Bud is selling his dope on the this site for $200/oz may be a decent deal if Bud delivers it too.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 24, 2016)

J Henry said:


> No problem. Just thought it may be cheaper to buy dope if the root rot a is eating you up already, that's all. This out really catastrophic with a new 2 week old system to take a disease hit that quickly.
> 
> Bud is selling his dope on the this site for $200/oz may be a decent deal if Bud delivers it too.


Actually bud doesn't sell any, I have a hard time not buying any lol. I'm always getting into a grow before its prime, cutting buds here and there. Like right now lol. I did just buy a few grams at the dispensary and it was $10 a gram so still doubt it's cheaper buying it. You should know this being a grower??? And OGM, ummm ya that's bad . One of Mine was like that too and I thought there was no way it would make it and yup it did lol. I also was running around .4 EC, once they recovered they were wanting a bit higher nute levels. I am looking for a amino acid supplement to replace the Vitanimo as well. That seems to have eliminated the blotching on the leaves.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 24, 2016)

Oh and when did I say I was selling on this site? My spider sense is starting to tingle ..... Perhaps we have a rat amongst us.....


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## OGMMJ (Apr 24, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Actually bud doesn't sell any, I have a hard time not buying any lol. I'm always getting into a grow before its prime, cutting buds here and there. Like right now lol. I did just buy a few grams at the dispensary and it was $10 a gram so still doubt it's cheaper buying it. You should know this being a grower??? And OGM, ummm ya that's bad . One of Mine was like that too and I thought there was no way it would make it and yup it did lol. I also was running around .4 EC, once they recovered they were wanting a bit higher nute levels. I am looking for a amino acid supplement to replace the Vitanimo as well. That seems to have eliminated the blotching on the leaves.


So you think I should let it roll with h2o2 still until the hydroguard gets here? And what do you think caused this so quickly!??


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## Budley Doright (Apr 24, 2016)

Yes and hope their salvageable if your intent in keeping them. Not sure of the cause. Your running the same setup as I was. I only ran sprayer's for 3 runs and back to flood and drain lol. I get less blockages and less issues with the latter. My issue was temps I believe.


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## OGMMJ (Apr 25, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Yes and hope their salvageable if your intent in keeping them. Not sure of the cause. Your running the same setup as I was. I only ran sprayer's for 3 runs and back to flood and drain lol. I get less blockages and less issues with the latter. My issue was temps I believe.


Alright thanks a lot! I'll see what happens with them over the time until the HG gets here, checked my root temp after about 12 hours and the root area is still only 63 degrees, so I don't believe that was the answer either, maybe it could have came from my cloner which I run 24/7 to keep the temps up more around 70-72 and I run nothing but RO water, I think when my hg gets here I will start fresh with some new seedlings I'm germing and run half tap water half RO water in the cloner, anything you ran in your cloner to prevent the funk? Off hand I'm thinking I'll mix RO and tap and then run 10ml a gallon peroxide ?


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## J Henry (Apr 25, 2016)

So the cold water did not prevent your root rot nor even slow it down. That happens more often than you think contrary to popular belief about chillers and cold water. Chlorine, chloramine and hydrogen peroxide might kill lots of stuff if the cold water isn’t working. Ozone works great and will eliminate any stinky odors too.

Hope is always the buzzword… first always chill the water and hope you can prevent the fungal outbreak, then hope you don’t catch a dose of the fungi, when that fails then hope you can cure the disease with chemicals when you catch it and then the ultimate firefight is on. The fungal disease is ubiquitous, just waiting for the right opportunity.

The cause of the root rot infestation simple, the grower in charge failed to keep the plants and beneficial microbes healthy, the plant became stressed and released stress chemicals, the stress chemical signal the fungi to come and eat… and they came and they feast on rotting plant tissue, they multiply and they colonize… the BOD and COD increase dramatically causing “low oxygen” and more cellular death and dying. Now you have caught yourself a full blown dose of the dreaded root rot disease.

Fungi always wait patiently for the plant to release stress chemicals which is the signal to colonize and feast on the dead and dying plant tissue and multiply. They do the same thing with a dead/dying humans too. They are like a turkey buzzard or Cara-Cara when these birds smell chemicals releases by death and rotting flesh… they congregate and many come and eat, it’s fiesta time.

Of course disinfecting a hydroponic system is a challenge and not sterilization by any stretch of the imagination. You might review “aseptic techniques” as sterilization may be a far reach for most hobbyist.

Disinfecting equipment with Consan (Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chlorides 9%) is an another option when your whole system is seriously contaminated http://www.solutionsstores.com/consan-triple-action-20-fungicide

And of course, if all the chemicals fail and you catch another dose, get rid of the contaminated equipment and start over fresh with clean equipment.


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## WeedFreak78 (Apr 25, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Oh and when did I say I was selling on this site? My spider sense is starting to tingle ..... Perhaps we have a rat amongst us.....


Not a rat, idk what he is ,but I don't think he's a rat. He spouts all this crap, but has nothing to back up his mouth. There's a couple threads he started. His answers to almost everything was "call the manufacturer, they'll explain it to you". He just regurgitates what he hears or reads with no actual comprehension.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 25, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Of course disinfecting a hydroponic system is a challenge and not sterilization by any stretch of the imagination. You might review “aseptic techniques” as sterilization may be a far reach for most hobbyist.


hmm. seems someone hasn't done their homework, J Henry. or did you steal this information from somebody else, AGAIN??

you know what they use in aseptic packaging? H2O2. 35% to be exact. 

you know what they don't use? O2 injection. 

better let bobby and jackie know you lost another sale.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 25, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> Not a rat, idk what he is ,but I don't think he's a rat. He spouts all this crap, but has nothing to back up his mouth. There's a couple threads he started. His answers to almost everything was "call the manufacturer, they'll explain it to you". He just regurgitates what he hears or reads with no actual comprehension.


i've got this guy figured out. he takes 10000 words to describe how to tie your shoes. but he's never actually done it himself.


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## WeedFreak78 (Apr 25, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> i've got this guy figured out. he takes 10000 words to describe how to tie your shoes. but he's never actually done it himself.


I'm not usually this hard on people on here, I wouldn't normally say anything, he rubbed me the wrong way with his know-it-all attitude.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 25, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> I'm not usually this hard on people on here, I wouldn't normally say anything, he rubbed me the wrong way with his know-it-all attitude.


you aren't the only one. 

i don't mind the attitude if he had pictures to back up what he's saying. as far as i'm concerned, all he has is an unproven theory that is way more complicated than it needs to be.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 25, 2016)

and a review in high times that his company probably paid for.


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## J Henry (Apr 25, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I charge $200 an ounce


Bud, this looks to me like you are clearly you are selling dope for $200/oz on this site to me.... Advertising selling dope on the internet, hmmm. That's not very bright, that reaches into interstate commerce on the internet, that touched Federal Drug Regulations, red flags, people looking, shame on you... you may need a lot of good luck on this one after such a stupid statement.


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## J Henry (Apr 25, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> he rubbed me the wrong way with his know-it-all attitude.


A little touchy?


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## rkymtnman (Apr 25, 2016)

J Henry said:


> this looks to me like you are clearly you are selling dope for $200/oz on this site to me.


where does he say he sells on this site?

your reading comprehension is on par with my dog.


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## WeedFreak78 (Apr 25, 2016)

J Henry said:


> A little touchy?


I value knowledge. You brought nothing new. I tried to have a somewhat educated conversation with you, and you couldn't elaborate on your comments. All you did was provide links, which you couldn't explain, and phone numbers, leading me to believe you don't understand what you're talking about. I don't want to see people taken by a charlatan, that's all.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 25, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Bud, this looks to me like you are clearly you are selling dope for $200/oz on this site to me.... Advertising selling dope on the internet, hmmm. That's not very bright, that reaches into interstate commerce on the internet, that touched Federal Drug Regulations, red flags, people looking, shame on you... you may need a lot of good luck on this one after such a stupid statement.


I'm not allowed in your country so there lol. And they better pack a lunch if they want to catch me doing anything bad these days, I'm retired and living the good life . You sure are a giant douche and now it would seem a giant rat as well. Your like the pimple on my ass that I think is gone and then ouch it's back.


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## J Henry (Apr 25, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I'm not allowed in your country so there lol. And they better pack a lunch if they want to catch me doing anything bad these days, I'm retired and living the good life . You sure are a giant douche and now it would seem a giant rat as well. Your like the pimple on my ass that I think is gone and then ouch it's back.


Keep running your mouth old man.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 25, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> I'm not usually this hard on people on here, I wouldn't normally say anything, he rubbed me the wrong way with his know-it-all attitude.


I hear ya lol.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 25, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Keep running your mouth old man.


You too douche .


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## Budley Doright (Apr 25, 2016)

I see you've made many friends here in our little community and only here for such a short time .


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## J Henry (Apr 25, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> You too douche .


Keep running your potty mouth old man.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 25, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I see you've made many friends here in our little community and only here for such a short time .


i just realized your avatar is of a boat. is that your vessel? looks like a nice fishing rig. 

J must do a lot of fishing in Minnetonka, don't ya J. or are you too busy copying and pasting other people's work?


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## Budley Doright (Apr 25, 2016)

Was mine but sold it last year . Got a 22' Princecraft deck boat now .


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## Budley Doright (Apr 25, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Keep running your potty mouth old man.


Now J do I need to remind you again that it was you that told someone here to go fuck himself and his mom too. So you best be lookin in a mirror douche . You should move along and let's us real growers discuss growing.


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## J Henry (Apr 25, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Now J do I need to remind you again that it was you that told someone here to go fuck himself and his mom too. So you best be lookin in a mirror douche . You should move along and let's us real growers discuss growing.


Keep running your mouth old man.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 25, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Bud, this looks to me like you are clearly you are selling dope for $200/oz on this site to me.... Advertising selling dope on the internet, hmmm. That's not very bright, that reaches into interstate commerce on the internet, that touched Federal Drug Regulations, red flags, people looking, shame on you... you may need a lot of good luck on this one after such a stupid statement.


Hahaha I laugh in the face of danger . Interstate commerce you say, federal drug regs you say. LOL.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 25, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Alright thanks a lot! I'll see what happens with them over the time until the HG gets here, checked my root temp after about 12 hours and the root area is still only 63 degrees, so I don't believe that was the answer either, maybe it could have came from my cloner which I run 24/7 to keep the temps up more around 70-72 and I run nothing but RO water, I think when my hg gets here I will start fresh with some new seedlings I'm germing and run half tap water half RO water in the cloner, anything you ran in your cloner to prevent the funk? Off hand I'm thinking I'll mix RO and tap and then run 10ml a gallon peroxide ?


I used root riot cubes last few clone starts and had great success.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 25, 2016)

J Henry said:


> Keep running your mouth old man.


Not that old but I do get Denny's discount and grey power insurance


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## rkymtnman (Apr 25, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Not that old but I do get Denny's discount and grey power insurance


what do you normally fish for? and where? 

we've got 2 gold medal trout streams within 30 minutes of me. just never enough time to go as much as i'd like.


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## LordRalh3 (Apr 25, 2016)

he's an idiot troll that doesn't even grow bud guys just ignore his drivel about "do you KNOW your DO" crap. he'll be banned from here before to long in sure, he obviously doesn't realize hes trolling a million plus member marijuana forum or something


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## Budley Doright (Apr 25, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> what do you normally fish for? and where?
> 
> we've got 2 gold medal trout streams within 30 minutes of me. just never enough time to go as much as i'd like.


Salmon on the big lake (ontario) and anything that bites in my lake. I live to fish. Just got back from BC and did a bunch of float fishing for trout. I caught 2 lake trout yesterday just casting off my dock with smelts on a float .


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## Budley Doright (Apr 25, 2016)

You fly fish then? I play a bit with mine but no rivers that have trout here  just lots of lakes, gonna rig up some streamers for pike opening in a few weeks and take out the 8 weight .


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## Budley Doright (Apr 25, 2016)

LordRalh3 said:


> he's an idiot troll that doesn't even grow bud guys just ignore his drivel about "do you KNOW your DO" crap. he'll be banned from here before to long in sure, he obviously doesn't realize hes trolling a million plus member marijuana forum or something


 Yes your right . I'm done lol.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 26, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> You fly fish then? I play a bit with mine but no rivers that have trout here  just lots of lakes, gonna rig up some streamers for pike opening in a few weeks and take out the 8 weight .


nope, not fly fishing. just spinning/baitcasting stuff. i just started trying for pike last year. still need to improve. i love eating pike and once i saw a youtube vid on how to filet one in 5 steps without bones, i was kinda hooked. plus those fish will destroy a lure kinda like a largemouth bass. love to fish topwater. all the lakes around here want you to catch and remove all the pike so they don't decimate the other species.


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## churchhaze (Apr 26, 2016)

Dead things rot. If you want to prevent your roots from rotting, prevent them from dying.

Root rot comes from the roots.


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## WeedFreak78 (Apr 26, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Dead things rot. If you want to prevent your roots from rotting, prevent them from dying.
> 
> Root rot comes from the roots.


Do the roots normally shed old and dead cells? Like many living organisms do? If so, you would still need to control that, I would think, being a food source.


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## churchhaze (Apr 26, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> Do the roots normally shed old and dead cells? Like many living organisms do? If so, you would still need to control that, I would think, being a food source.


Roots have storage vessels called amyloplasts which are designed to hold starch. When the roots are unhealthy/dead, they become soft and the starch seeps out and makes the roots slimy. That becomes infected.


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## J Henry (Apr 26, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Roots have storage vessels called amyloplasts which are designed to hold starch. When the roots are unhealthy/dead, they become soft and the starch seeps out and makes the roots slimy. That becomes infected.


The plant gets stressed, releases stress chemicals, that alerts the fungi that the feast is near signaling "dead cells and brown slime." Abundant fungus food is available to eat... and the fungi feast in on. Maintain healthy plants and there is nothing for Pythium and other fungi to eat, prevent the release of stress chemicals. Maintain healthy biologicals and retard the fungal over-run (biological combat) so to speak. When you can't maintain plant health and biologicals health, then you will surely deal with the fungal outbreaks and infestations, dying biologicals and sickly plants. There is a method to the infestation process. There is also a method to prevention.


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## WeedFreak78 (Apr 26, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Roots have storage vessels called amyloplasts which are designed to hold starch. When the roots are unhealthy/dead, they become soft and the starch seeps out and makes the roots slimy. That becomes infected.


But at the cellular level, do root cells die off and get replaced? I assuming most living things would, idk. We leave behind skin cells as dust, so I'm thinking there's always going to be trace dead organic cells to deal with naturally, not from neglect or abuse? I thought one main reason behind running bennies is to consume and break down those naturally occurring organics so it didn't become a harbor for other bacteria.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 26, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Dead things rot. If you want to prevent your roots from rotting, prevent them from dying.
> 
> Root rot comes from the roots.


 That's kinda the whole point of this I think, a healthy root zone. What happened to weed is kind of different than what I experienced, temps killed mine but his seem to be ok so really the only other thing I can think of would be O2, any thoughts Church?


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## churchhaze (Apr 26, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> But at the cellular level, do root cells die off and get replaced? I assuming most living things would, idk. We leave behind skin cells as dust, so I'm thinking there's always going to be trace dead organic cells to deal with naturally, not from neglect or abuse? I thought one main reason behind running bennies is to consume and break down those naturally occurring organics so it didn't become a harbor for other bacteria.


I'm pretty sure that the only place regeneration happens with cannabis is at the root and shoot apical meristems. I've never heard of leaves or roots repairing themselves after losing tissue to insects or other forms of damage.


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## churchhaze (Apr 26, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> That's kinda the whole point of this I think, a healthy root zone. What happened to weed is kind of different than what I experienced, temps killed mine but his seem to be ok so really the only other thing I can think of would be O2, any thoughts Church?


Lack of O2 would definitely kill the roots and cause them to rot. Another issue could be too low in EC. Think about what happens when you shower for too long. You're bathing in water that has less salt than your skin tissue, so the osmotic pressure gradient causes water to flow into your skin, causing cells to expand and become wrinkly. The same can happen to roots, making them "wrinkly" like your skin is when it's in the water for too long.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 26, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Lack of O2 would definitely kill the roots and cause them to rot. Another issue could be too low in EC. Think about what happens when you shower for too long. You're bathing in water that has less salt than your skin tissue, so the osmotic pressure gradient causes water to flow into your skin, causing cells to expand and become wrinkly. The same can happen to roots, making them "wrinkly" like your skin is when it's in the water for too long.


Well that puts a new twist in everything I've done lol. I actually do keep things on the low end of the scale but the plants have always looked happy, never thought about roots. I have pretty much figured out my setup. Insulating the tops of root chamber lids helped the roots stay cooler, added a passive loop chiller to keep temps at 65ish. And yes hydroguard of which I really have no clue if it helps because I haven't stopped using it since the chiller, and started using it two weeks before but it did as I say save the plants. One plant had a single brown root hanging down and it made it back lol.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 26, 2016)

This is feb 2, cloned 9 days before and transplanted two days before. This is feb 15th. Ok so pics are backwards, to high to worry lol.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 26, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> nope, not fly fishing. just spinning/baitcasting stuff. i just started trying for pike last year. still need to improve. i love eating pike and once i saw a youtube vid on how to filet one in 5 steps without bones, i was kinda hooked. plus those fish will destroy a lure kinda like a largemouth bass. love to fish topwater. all the lakes around here want you to catch and remove all the pike so they don't decimate the other species.


Pike are one of the few freshwater fish I keep and eat, walleye too. You could always shoot the pike in the spring, that's fun lol. I start bow fishing soon as well for carp on the St. Lawrence river, another way fun way to waste a day lol.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 26, 2016)

I should point out that the shooting of pike is illegal and I do not suggest anyone break the law "cough....j Henry.....cough". But yes I have shot a few in my youth .


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## J Henry (Apr 27, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> That's kinda the whole point of this I think, a healthy root zone. What happened to weed is kind of different than what I experienced, temps killed mine but his seem to be ok so really the only other thing I can think of would be O2, any thoughts Church?


_Dissolved Oxygen (DO)_

http://www.homehydrosystems.com/nutrients/oxygen_page.html

Perhaps one of the commonest problems in hydropnic systems is the Pythium pathogen. What many growers do not realize is that Pythium, being an “opportunist” fungi, often takes advantage of plants which have been stressed by a combination of high temperatures and oxygen starvation in the root zone. Pythium is usually described as a “secondary infection” meaning that the Pythium spores that are actually common in just about all hydroponic systems, don't actually attack the plant until it has been damaged in some way. Pythium is everywhere, so the best defense is a healthy plant.

Oxygen is an essential plant nutrient – plant root systems require oxygen for aerobic respiration, an essential plant process that releases energy for root growth and nutrient uptake. In many water-based hydroponic systems,the oxygen supplied for plant root uptake is provided mostly as dissolved oxygen (DO) in the nutrient solution as well as a zone of aeration provided by a gap from the surface to the reservoir water level.

Oxygen requirements for plants in flower tend to be more demanding in comparison to vegetative states. This is due to the size of the root system, temperature, and nutrient uptake rates, not the specific stage of growth.

Injury from low (or no) oxygen in the root zone can take several forms and these will differ in severity between plant types. Often the first sign of inadequate oxygen supply to the roots is wilting of the plant under warm conditions and high light levels. Insufficient oxygen reduces the permeability of the roots to water and there will be an accumulation of toxins, so that both water and minerals are not absorbed in sufficient amounts to support plant growth.

While it is possible to measure the levels of dissolved oxygen in a hydroponic nutrient solution, it is not carried out as often as EC/ppm or pH monitoring due to the cost of accurate DO meters. However, if an effective method of aeration is continually being used, and solution temperatures are not reaching excessively high levels, then good levels of oxygenation can be achieved without trouble.


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## J Henry (Apr 27, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I should point out that the shooting of pike is illegal and I do not suggest anyone break the law "cough....j Henry.....cough". But yes I have shot a few in my youth .


Say you cough alot, smoke a lot… might have caught yourself a dose of the Emphysema/COPD, eh old man…


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## rkymtnman (Apr 27, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> View attachment 3666691 View attachment 3666673 This is feb 2, cloned 9 days before and transplanted two days before. This is feb 15th. Ok so pics are backwards, to high to worry lol.


if your roots look like that, keep on doing what your doing. i love how they get that comb look to them


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## rkymtnman (Apr 27, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Pike are one of the few freshwater fish I keep and eat, walleye too. You could always shoot the pike in the spring, that's fun lol. I start bow fishing soon as well for carp on the St. Lawrence river, another way fun way to waste a day lol.


have you seen video of those flying fish ( asian carp maybe?) that they shoot with bows? that looks fun as hell.


----------



## WeedFreak78 (Apr 27, 2016)




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## rkymtnman (Apr 27, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


>


remember the old telephones where you had to crank the handle to charge it up to make a call?

you can add leads to it and drop them in the water while cranking in the boat and fish will float up to the surface stunned. scoop em up wiht a net. works great on catfish. 
just don't get caught by fish and game or they take everything


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## WeedFreak78 (Apr 27, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> remember the old telephones where you had to crank the handle to charge it up to make a call?
> 
> you can add leads to it and drop them in the water while cranking in the boat and fish will float up to the surface stunned. scoop em up wiht a net. works great on catfish.
> just don't get caught by fish and game or they take everything


Lol. .growing up one of my friends had his grandfather's WW2 field phone..we quickly figured that out. .we would see who could hold the leads the longest. Then I found out they actually used them like that for torture. .lol. .kids.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 27, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> if your roots look like that, keep on doing what your doing. i love how they get that comb look to them


Oh I plan it lol. Nicest set of roots I've ever had and I'll take a pic of the mat when done harvesting Saturday hopefully.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 27, 2016)

I have a megameter may do it lol.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 27, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Oh I plan it lol. Nicest set of roots I've ever had and I'll take a pic of the mat when done harvesting Saturday hopefully.


and you didn't need 145% O2 superdupersaturation to do it??? holy crap!


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## Budley Doright (Apr 27, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> and you didn't need 145% O2 superdupersaturation to do it??? holy crap!


No but I needed 300' of copper coiled in loops behind the building lol. Actually I have tons of copper just waiting for the price to skyrocket again so a great way to use it . I can't wait to get a good yielder in there next fall now that things are dialed in . Got the summer to ponder strain selection. Buying some think different seeds to start this weekend inside and will plant some of what I've got going outdoors as well, up to about 45 clones now .


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## Tripp2005 (Apr 27, 2016)

Soo its been a minute since I let you all know how the tea an hydroguard let's just say its been working really well plants have been growing at least a inch a day and taking off rootmass has tripled or more deff sum thing I'll be using from now on and looks like the advanced nutes root tribe is my next purchase deff worth the money


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## OGMMJ (Apr 29, 2016)

Hey guys, finally got the HG and pondzyme today and changed my Rez and added my full recipe of nutes I would like to run and the hydroguard and pondzyme, added the hydroguard at 2ml a gallon and about 1/8th scoop probably less of the pondzyme

Ph is at 6.0 

ppm ended up right at 345 after following my recipe which is a number I'm comfortable with for young plants still and also still haven't figured out my conversion rate, still if anyone knows it is the HDE "blue" ppm meter from Amazon, came in a pack with a yellow ph meter as well, 

Anyways hopefully things will take off how I was anticipating and if just the hg and pondzyme on their own don't do the trick I will brew some tea and give that a shot, but I'm feeling good about the new soup, the res had no slime or algae when I changed it since I have been adding h2o2 until the guard got here. Now hopefully it's out the door with h2o2 with bigger better results from bennies 

Happy Friday! Have a good weekend guys!


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## Budley Doright (Apr 29, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Hey guys, finally got the HG and pondzyme today and changed my Rez and added my full recipe of nutes I would like to run and the hydroguard and pondzyme, added the hydroguard at 2ml a gallon and about 1/8th scoop probably less of the pondzyme
> 
> Ph is at 6.0
> 
> ...


Good luck!!! Keep us posted . It would be cool to see if just the pondzyme alone offered the same results. I've just had some good results with just the guard I would hate to find that it is better. But it could be worse lol, seperate buckets would be nice lol.


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## Redishx (Apr 29, 2016)

H202


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## Budley Doright (Apr 29, 2016)

Redishx said:


> H202


Done that and ya it worked but I do seem to get better root development with the hydroguard, honestly since I installed the chiller I have not tried H2O2 but it didn't touch the rot I had but hydroguard did touch them and made them grow lol.


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## OGMMJ (Apr 29, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Done that and ya it worked but I do seem to get better root development with the hydroguard, honestly since I installed the chiller I have not tried H2O2 but it didn't touch the rot I had but hydroguard did touch them and made them grow lol.


Agreed, the new roots are white and healthy but the plants have barely grown, and the problem is still around, the rotted roots are still there, still rotted, not necessarily rotting any further, so I'm hoping the bennies will now do one better and start feeding on the dead/rotted roots

Also with h2o2 it sure seemed to be a heavy amount every couple days of a product I'm not fully comfortable with using in something I will be inhaling in the end anyway, even though I understand it's only one extra oxy molecule compared from water, ( I once heard that margarine is one molecule difference from plastic.) 

Here's a pic of the roots of the one I chopped all the roots off of compared to the one I left the roots and the new growth that has been since holding back the slime/algae/pythium whatever I had/have


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## Budley Doright (Apr 30, 2016)

It took my girls about two weeks to get new roots with the guard alone but I also use vitanimo. My timeline is kinda fucky so I need to see when the chiller was introduced as well.


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## OGMMJ (May 3, 2016)

Update , added hydroguard and a dash of pondzyme to the Rez again today, EC is at .7 
Right about 350 ppm, ph is a little higher then I would like at 6.2/6.3 been, it seems to be climbing about .1 or .2 every 24 hours I'm thinkin it might just be the nutes because I don't seem to have any slime coming back and all new root growth is white, since the new recipe with the addition of silica blast and pondzyme and hydroguard the roots are seeming to thicken up, 

Moved my white widow big bud over to the vegger today as it was having some deficiencies so hoping that will finally take off with new green growth, 

Checked my ph in my cloner today and it was 8.0! Yikes, did a change and washed with a bleach solution and did half tap half RO ph'd down to 6.5.

I would like to get my ph lower, ideally I'm shooting to run everything at one number, I picked 5.8, but I think I'm going to experience some climb just from these nutes, the bennies might be causing a slight rise as well? So I'm going to do a fresh res change again this weekend and ph everything down to 5.5 and let it climb and see if it continuously climbs or finds a number it's happy at. 

Also another thing... I seem to get good root growth in my vegger but it seems to be all downward and not to many secondary roots? Anyone have any thoughts? I'm thinking about lengthening the off cycle of the sprayer to maybe 50 seconds on 7 or 8 minutes off


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## Budley Doright (May 3, 2016)

So they still look a bit fucked. Wonder if it's the light leaks that are around the edges? They are clumping and with mine that was a sure sign the roots were still on the verge of rot. Wonder if maybe just using the hydroguard might help. I was running tea when the rot hit . And yes even starting at a ph of 5.6 seemed to be fine for me and it would actually drop as time progressed. What's your Res temp and root chamber temps? Still lower than 70? I'm having good results at 66 but haven't tried higher.


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## OGMMJ (May 3, 2016)

Hey bud! Quickly back to help as always! Much appreciated!

Yeah the roots are still clumping but it doesn't seem to be as bad, the new roots don't seem to want to clump as much as the old roots that are just still clumped, I massaged the rotten mess today and the rotted roots are just falling apart at this point so I think the hydroguard and pondzyme is starting to break down the dead ones while the plant is replacing with new ones.

Rez temps good and root chamber good, res temp has been low with low weather outside lately, like 63, root chamber right where your at right about 65-66. I really won't know until I have an entirely fresh plant go through the system, which I have two seedlings in my cloner right now that have been introduced after my "cures" for the rot were implemented, so time will tell. As always. 

I'll try and get a closer pic of the plant I chopped all the roots off of, that one shows that the new roots don't seem to be clumping as badly, another thing is I mentioned my roots are still just shooting straight down and I think that has something to do with the fact they seem to look clumped, also I'm wondering if they will just always kind of have that look seeing as it's a Stinkbud system and the water sprays on the roots and then runs down then and back into the top tote then waterfalls into the lower Rez, so the natural fall and weight of the water might cause the roots to just kinda hang like that, (opposed to dwc bucket where the roots have some buoyancy so be able to spider web each and every way) make sense? Just rambling stoned thoughts.


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## Budley Doright (May 3, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Hey bud! Quickly back to help as always! Much appreciated!
> 
> Yeah the roots are still clumping but it doesn't seem to be as bad, the new roots don't seem to want to clump as much as the old roots that are just still clumped, I massaged the rotten mess today and the rotted roots are just falling apart at this point so I think the hydroguard and pondzyme is starting to break down the dead ones while the plant is replacing with new ones.
> 
> ...


Ya I'm not sure??? My root chamber is not as deep as yours so they tend to grow into a big mat. And yup water fall here too into the lower chamber, actually two, my chiller discharge is also a water fall. I wish I kept track of spray times but didn't, at your stage I was probably every hour for 15 min (no cycle timer lol). Keep me posted and maybe a sprayer wizard will pop in . I'm just waiting to harvest and shut down for the summer, head outdoors where lights are free .


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## OGMMJ (May 3, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Ya I'm not sure??? My root chamber is not as deep as yours so they tend to grow into a big mat. And yup water fall here too into the lower chamber, actually two, my chiller discharge is also a water fall. I wish I kept track of spray times but didn't, at your stage I was probably every hour for 15 min (no cycle timer lol). Keep me posted and maybe a sprayer wizard will pop in . I'm just waiting to harvest and shut down for the summer, head outdoors where lights are free .


Nice yeah I'm not sure that even with ac I will be able to run my flower space, low outside temps lately and my root chamber still reaches 70, if it's 80 outside my Rez will hit 72, my hope is that if I can get the Bennie trick down I will be okay with my Rez maxing at 72-73 for an hour or so, (no chiller) although seeing as I'm only running a 15 gallon Rez I'm looking into getting one just for the flower room, but I also have dimmable ballast so maybe I can just turn the room down to 800 watts vs 1200 for the dog days of the summer to keep temps down just to keep the perpetual schedule going. 

Currently have like 19 seeds germing in different methods so hopefully most of those will come through and I will be able to see how a new plant does and see if it shows any sign of rot.


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## Budley Doright (May 5, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Nice yeah I'm not sure that even with ac I will be able to run my flower space, low outside temps lately and my root chamber still reaches 70, if it's 80 outside my Rez will hit 72, my hope is that if I can get the Bennie trick down I will be okay with my Rez maxing at 72-73 for an hour or so, (no chiller) although seeing as I'm only running a 15 gallon Rez I'm looking into getting one just for the flower room, but I also have dimmable ballast so maybe I can just turn the room down to 800 watts vs 1200 for the dog days of the summer to keep temps down just to keep the perpetual schedule going.
> 
> Currently have like 19 seeds germing in different methods so hopefully most of those will come through and I will be able to see how a new plant does and see if it shows any sign of rot.


It will be interesting to see the results with some new plants. My girls did recover but the cuttings were 10 fold better once it was all dialled in . I'm looking forward to getting stuff going outside .


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## OGMMJ (May 5, 2016)

Yeah I hope I can get some decent sized veggin plants to send some clones outside, due to being behind I'm going to try to just send 20 or so clones outside around June and hopefully will be shorter easier maintainable bushes  hopefully it works like that. I also have been recently building an outdoor hydro nft system for tomatoes and peppers and such. Little behind on that as well.  

But yeah time will tell with the new seedling that's in there, see if those roots get infected, if they do I guess I'll pitch em or go ahead and throw them in soil and toss em outside.

Just hoping most the seeds I'm germing now root.


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## OGMMJ (May 5, 2016)

Also threw in my 400 mh and took out the 250 CFL, I think the warmth might help, tent gets down to 60s at night like 59-60


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## Budley Doright (May 5, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Yeah I hope I can get some decent sized veggin plants to send some clones outside, due to being behind I'm going to try to just send 20 or so clones outside around June and hopefully will be shorter easier maintainable bushes  hopefully it works like that. I also have been recently building an outdoor hydro nft system for tomatoes and peppers and such. Little behind on that as well.
> 
> But yeah time will tell with the new seedling that's in there, see if those roots get infected, if they do I guess I'll pitch em or go ahead and throw them in soil and toss em outside.
> 
> Just hoping most the seeds I'm germing now root.


June should be fine, June 1st is the typical planting date here anyways


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## Budley Doright (May 5, 2016)

Sounds like your growing in the same shed . My temps lights off temps get to 50's and lights on are kept no higher than 75. Well until it gets hot , hope not for a week or two .


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## OGMMJ (May 5, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Sounds like your growing in the same shed . My temps lights off temps get to 50's and lights on are kept no higher than 75. Well until it gets hot , hope not for a week or two .


Lol yeah mine is a stack stone basement lol, built a frame for my tent to stay off the floor but yeah my temps in the early morning were like 56 

Honestly haven't notified any ill effects except maybe the leaves curling down. Could be other things though, honestly I would rather grow in 60 then 90 anyway


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## OGMMJ (May 5, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Lol yeah mine is a stack stone basement lol, built a frame for my tent to stay off the floor but yeah my temps in the early morning were like 56
> 
> Honestly haven't notified any ill effects except maybe the leaves curling down. Could be other things though, honestly I would rather grow in 60 then 90 anyway


But then of course my flower room might as well be in the attic lol, top floor of the house with a false wall, plaster and lathe exterior walls  not sure if your familiar but a pain all around, horrible insulation, huge mess when doing anything involving getting into the wall and been having a hard time even in only about 20sq feet with 9000 btu ac keeping it cooler then outside temps.


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## Budley Doright (May 5, 2016)

My leaves curl down when ph goes higher .


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## OGMMJ (May 5, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> My leaves curl down when ph goes higher .


Very possibly because my ph has been in the 6.1-6.3 range, I would like to start keeping everything at like 5.6-5.8 but waiting until I change the Rez this weekend


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## OGMMJ (May 5, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> My leaves curl down when ph goes higher .


Also unrelated but I have some concerns, my seedlings seem to literally take forrrreveer to start getting some nodes, think it's the low temperatures ? Like the one seedling has had its two little seedling leaves for like 4-5 days with no new growth. Only half RO half tap in the cloner. I'll check the ph in there when I get home.


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## Budley Doright (May 5, 2016)

Just checked my last grow (the root rot one) and 10 days for two full nodes. But I used rock wool and peat pods. Then it went to shit lol.


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## OGMMJ (May 5, 2016)

@Budley Doright good news! I believe I finally found my culprit for the infamous rot I have been dealing with!! 

As mentioned that I would check the ph of my cloner when I got home.. Well I did and sure enough it's back up there at 8.0 like it was on Tuesday  

I had to get an answer, so I proceeded to change the res again

last time I rinsed everything with bleach solution but I didn't run any through the system... There's the mistake, I popped open my pump and sure enough, bam! Brown slimey gooey gross dab lookin junk!

So I'm happy I found a reason for this rot other then all the other worries I was having, (if it was my RO storage, my water, my equipment) so needless to say I put an overwhelming amount of bleach in the bucket and soaked all the pieces of the pump for awhile and ran the sink through it for a few minutes letting it run through all my lines and such, letting it all soak as I write this, then going to put another heavy bleach solution in it and put it back together and let it run outside for 10 minutes or so, then fresh tap and RO water and hopefully no more rot troubles now that I have started using bennies as well! 

Don't worry I took pics of the gross sludge
(Viewer discretion is advised)


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## Budley Doright (May 6, 2016)

It will be interesting to compare the ph readings now . I'm a newb to all of this hydro stuff as well . The way I've learned is through disaster mitigation, be it leaks, overflows, and yes rot lol. Probably not the preferred method but it works lol.


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## Budley Doright (May 6, 2016)

How do you stop the roots from going into the bottom Res?


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## Budley Doright (May 6, 2016)

Have a look at my Dr greenthumb oh zone thread, first page has a pic of one of my trays c/w spray heads. I have switched out the sprayer's to just straight flood and drain now though .


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## WeedFreak78 (May 6, 2016)

I'm running 80sec on/8 mins off in lp aero/nft hybrid rails. I can't find the thread but someone found this to be the "best" timing in thier system. I don't remember who exactly, but it was one of the few members here that I've read and trust thier opinions. I had to bump up EC shortly after changing, but that may have just been due to the age of plants and not the cycle change, idk, could be because of less frequent feedings.


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## Budley Doright (May 6, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> I'm running 80sec on/8 mins off in lp aero/nft hybrid rails. I can't find the thread but someone found this to be the "best" timing in thier system. I don't remember who exactly, but it was one of the few members here that I've read and trust thier opinions. I had to bump up EC shortly after changing, but that may have just been due to the age of plants and not the cycle change, idk, could be because of less frequent feedings.


I would have liked to play more but never did get a cycle timer. I know many commercial veggy growers fun a continuous spray. Kinda gave up on sprayer's and returned to the old faithful flood and drain .


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## OGMMJ (May 7, 2016)

"Old faithful" might be the exact words for flood and drain haha. My buddy has done it for a few years now and it's like the epitome of the guy who throws some air stones in a Rez with nutrients and constantly produces funk. 

That being said that's why it will be my fall back if I throw in the towel with the aero, will build my own flood table to fit my space and probably just keep the cloner aero and make a 2x2 table for veg, 2x7 for flower, as you can see I've already done my planning for that as well, was going to be my original plan until I came across LP aero

UPDATE FROM YESTERDAY, I ph'd my vegger down to 5.5 yesterday after I did the super soak on my cloner and today it was at 6.6, so my suspiscion that the brown slime is going to be in the vegger as well is likely the truth, that being said I will perform the exact routine I did to my cloner yesterday to my vegger tomorrow (thorough bleach cleanse) then I will add hydroguard and pondzyme every other day to hopefully reinoculate with a fresh start and only beneficial bacteria, only thing is none of the plants are big enough to clone yet so I'm not going to toss the infected ones yet (which is probably just asking for it to come back) until I can get some clones, really like the structure of one of them and the other is my white widow big bud so I would like to get a cut off that, if somehow I breed some super slime and worst comes to worst after I get cuts I will rebuild a new vegger, 

In good notes 5-6 new seedlings have sprouted


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## Budley Doright (May 7, 2016)

I started with a drip system, then ebb and flow, then flood and drain, then LPA, then back lol. And started outdoors at 14-15 so wow.... 45 years lol. And still know crap lol. It's weird that your not getting rid of the shit, it would be nice if an aero guy could help out! You should start a thread in the aero section but beware a thousand cures will be thrown at you lol. I used a pond microbe a few weeks ago and within three days I had algae anywhere a tube was exposed to light, added extra dose (their recommended dose) of 2 ml per liter and poof gone . But it was not pondzyme .


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## Budley Doright (May 7, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> I'm running 80sec on/8 mins off in lp aero/nft hybrid rails. I can't find the thread but someone found this to be the "best" timing in thier system. I don't remember who exactly, but it was one of the few members here that I've read and trust thier opinions. I had to bump up EC shortly after changing, but that may have just been due to the age of plants and not the cycle change, idk, could be because of less frequent feedings.


I have rails already drilled and ready to go, just always thinking the roots would be a pain to deal with. There is a product called slim duct that I think would be cool to try in the 5.5" size. The top snaps in place so basically if laid horizontal there is a rounded trough with a snap in place lid but not sure about light penetration. Easy access to the root zone and spray heads would be nice.


----------



## OGMMJ (May 7, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I started with a drip system, then ebb and flow, then flood and drain, then LPA, then back lol. And started outdoors at 14-15 so wow.... 45 years lol. And still know crap lol. It's weird that your not getting rid of the shit, it would be nice if an aero guy could help out! You should start a thread in the aero section but beware a thousand cures will be thrown at you lol. I used a pond microbe a few weeks ago and within three days I had algae anywhere a tube was exposed to light, added extra dose (their recommended dose) of 2 ml per liter and poof gone . But it was not pondzyme .


Must have been an inaccurate reading yesterday checked this morning before work and it was 5.8 so still rising but not near what I thought, the 400mh I threw in there came out because the cheap ipower duct booster I was using to keep temps down from it went out on day 2. So the 250 watt CFL it is. So the res temps were a little higher then normal yesterday (68 degrees) (usually 62-64) maybe the ph meter read inaccurately because of that idk, it's a cheap meter, not to worried because new roots are still nice, and still doing a fresh bleach wash and Rez change today after work. Will see how things go from there.

Smashed some rosin last night, tried a big glob this morning before work ....
Very effective, very tasty. Solventless.


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## WeedFreak78 (May 7, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I have rails already drilled and ready to go, just always thinking the roots would be a pain to deal with. There is a product called slim duct that I think would be cool to try in the 5.5" size. The top snaps in place so basically if laid horizontal there is a rounded trough with a snap in place lid but not sure about light penetration. Easy access to the root zone and spray heads would be nice.


I'm in 5" fence post. I just lift a net pot if I want to look in, never had an issue with sprayers. I was worried about access to the roots, but it hasn't been an issue. If the res is good the roots are good.


----------



## Budley Doright (May 7, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Must have been an inaccurate reading yesterday checked this morning before work and it was 5.8 so still rising but not near what I thought, the 400mh I threw in there came out because the cheap ipower duct booster I was using to keep temps down from it went out on day 2. So the 250 watt CFL it is. So the res temps were a little higher then normal yesterday (68 degrees) (usually 62-64) maybe the ph meter read inaccurately because of that idk, it's a cheap meter, not to worried because new roots are still nice, and still doing a fresh bleach wash and Rez change today after work. Will see how things go from there.
> 
> Smashed some rosin last night, tried a big glob this morning before work ....
> Very effective, very tasty. Solventless.


Are you measuring your EC as well? Never tried solventless but would love to design something using refrigerant or CO2. The reason I asked about the EC is mine will rise slightly or lower slightly depending on EC.


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## Budley Doright (May 7, 2016)

WeedFreak78 said:


> I'm in 5" fence post. I just lift a net pot if I want to look in, never had an issue with sprayers. I was worried about access to the roots, but it hasn't been an issue. If the res is good the roots are good.


That's what I have ready to go, just never hit the switch on them and I said fuck the sprayer's, had to many issues to warrant running them .


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## OGMMJ (May 7, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Are you measuring your EC as well? Never tried solventless but would love to design something using refrigerant or CO2. The reason I asked about the EC is mine will rise slightly or lower slightly depending on EC.


I can measure the EC when I get home.

Was .7
Roughly 365-385 ppm

Interested in what it will be when I get home, I followed bontanicares feeding schedule last res change but this one I think I will switch to superstoners recipe, should have stuck to the step by step method anyway and maybe would have prevented this. But on the other hand probably not, didn't expect to jump right into aero and not have any learning curve and start pulling a gram per watt


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## Budley Doright (May 7, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> I can measure the EC when I get home.
> 
> Was .7
> Roughly 365-385 ppm
> ...


LOL there is no other way than to jump lol. Once you get things rocking you'll see that they can take a higher EC, well I did and went from .6 to 1.2 EC in a couple of weeks.


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## Tripp2005 (May 7, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Very possibly because my ph has been in the 6.1-6.3 range, I would like to start keeping everything at like 5.6-5.8 but waiting until I change the Rez this weekend


Have u tryed advanced there shit is the bomb haven't had to worries about pH at all they get all they need because it chelated


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## OGMMJ (May 7, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> Have u tryed advanced there shit is the bomb haven't had to worries about pH at all they get all they need because it chelated


Hey Tripp, no I haven't tried advanced, I have some trial size bottles of b 52 and nirvana on my shelf but didn't plan on using it, really impressed with everyone's turnout with botanicare, next run I'm going to try out cyco, buddy runs it and always has great lush green fast growth


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## Tripp2005 (May 8, 2016)

Nice b52 works so good made my stalks as wide as a qutar in about 2 weeks


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## OGMMJ (May 9, 2016)

Hey guys, another update before a Rez change tomorrow, roots are improving greatly in the veg system still. Plants overall are looking healthier then ever. Tomorrow when I change the Rez I'm going to follow the super stoner recipe, I might or might not add the other additives I have that are not included in the recipe, I'll decide tomorrow, the girls are finally noticably eating though, this whole time my ppm/ec has stayed almost the same and finally it is dropping, causing a slight ph rise. But yay! Glad to know they are eating, still not sure if they are getting as much as they should/could but the ec has went down from .7 to .6 in maybe 72 hours. (25-45 ppm decrease daily) 

But I'm still having issues with my cloner bucket, I'm starting to really think about just parting it out and making a larger system if I can fit it in the tent. I'm starting to think the fact that it only holds 2 gallons is going to constantly give me headaches, I can't stop the ph from rising, I thought I had the answer with the brown sludge I found but maybe not, (still very happy I found that) i have another pump I might just try and put the lid of it on a bigger bucket so atleast it can be 4 gallons or so. I wish I could fit the "cooler cloner" side by side but I just don't think I can pull it off, Might be setting up that other 3x3 tent I've been considering sooner then I anticipated, I also want to get another 250w CFL over the veg unit so it's 500w of CFL. Liked having the 400mh in there more but after the cheap duct booster went out after a day I switched back. 

Anyways here's some pics from last Thursday (first 2) and then today


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## Budley Doright (May 10, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Hey guys, another update before a Rez change tomorrow, roots are improving greatly in the veg system still. Plants overall are looking healthier then ever. Tomorrow when I change the Rez I'm going to follow the super stoner recipe, I might or might not add the other additives I have that are not included in the recipe, I'll decide tomorrow, the girls are finally noticably eating though, this whole time my ppm/ec has stayed almost the same and finally it is dropping, causing a slight ph rise. But yay! Glad to know they are eating, still not sure if they are getting as much as they should/could but the ec has went down from .7 to .6 in maybe 72 hours. (25-45 ppm decrease daily)
> 
> But I'm still having issues with my cloner bucket, I'm starting to really think about just parting it out and making a larger system if I can fit it in the tent. I'm starting to think the fact that it only holds 2 gallons is going to constantly give me headaches, I can't stop the ph from rising, I thought I had the answer with the brown sludge I found but maybe not, (still very happy I found that) i have another pump I might just try and put the lid of it on a bigger bucket so atleast it can be 4 gallons or so. I wish I could fit the "cooler cloner" side by side but I just don't think I can pull it off, Might be setting up that other 3x3 tent I've been considering sooner then I anticipated, I also want to get another 250w CFL over the veg unit so it's 500w of CFL. Liked having the 400mh in there more but after the cheap duct booster went out after a day I switched back.
> 
> Anyways here's some pics from last Thursday (first 2) and then today


I followed him when I first started and as much as admired what he did with his plants I didn't agree with some advice. I did pick out a bunch of his stuff and incorporate it in my trays. Your roots are looking way better FYI . You tend to learn lots when things go for a shit lol. Your air stone in the cloner might be the culprit re ph climbing, I ditched all air stones and my ph was way more stable. I just use water pumps now to add DO to all my trays.


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## OGMMJ (May 11, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I followed him when I first started and as much as admired what he did with his plants I didn't agree with some advice. I did pick out a bunch of his stuff and incorporate it in my trays. Your roots are looking way better FYI . You tend to learn lots when things go for a shit lol. Your air stone in the cloner might be the culprit re ph climbing, I ditched all air stones and my ph was way more stable. I just use water pumps now to add DO to all my trays.


Hey bud; no Airstone in the cloner, I wish that was the answer, any ways I'm excited to say I should be finishing up my new cloner this evening. I was mentioning wanting to do a cooler cloner, haven't been happy with my bucket lately, lid is cracked, water leaks out around the net pots because the holes are drilled a wee bit too big, only holds 2 gallons of water so it's a pain to keep cool and I think a larger Rez will maintain ph better. Found a matching tote to my vegger with a black lid already and it will fit like a glove next to my vegger in my system and also allow many more plant sites. Hopefully after that and I have a brand new pump I can use I can maintain much more stable numbers in the cloner, I recently added the use of a white board in my space haha! Simple tools make things much easier, now I just write my ec/ppm/ ph down every evening when I check and then I can monitor what it has done throughout the week, 

May I ask what advice you didn't agree with from superstoner? Working on finishing up my single rail flower system with the drain at the end that runs into a tube into the side of my res so I don't have to cut any holes in my lid.


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## Budley Doright (May 11, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Hey bud; no Airstone in the cloner, I wish that was the answer, any ways I'm excited to say I should be finishing up my new cloner this evening. I was mentioning wanting to do a cooler cloner, haven't been happy with my bucket lately, lid is cracked, water leaks out around the net pots because the holes are drilled a wee bit too big, only holds 2 gallons of water so it's a pain to keep cool and I think a larger Rez will maintain ph better. Found a matching tote to my vegger with a black lid already and it will fit like a glove next to my vegger in my system and also allow many more plant sites. Hopefully after that and I have a brand new pump I can use I can maintain much more stable numbers in the cloner, I recently added the use of a white board in my space haha! Simple tools make things much easier, now I just write my ec/ppm/ ph down every evening when I check and then I can monitor what it has done throughout the week,
> 
> May I ask what advice you didn't agree with from superstoner? Working on finishing up my single rail flower system with the drain at the end that runs into a tube into the side of my res so I don't have to cut any holes in my lid.


Well the not changing out res's and just refilling may work for him but really think it's not way to go, he must have magical water lol. Haven't read anything lately but there were a few things that he did that I would not do but it seemed to work for him, found him kind of cranky if you asked to many questions lol. I don't get the guys that just give three word sentences for advice and no explanation as to why it works, not very helpful for a newb like myself that tends to ask to many questions I guess lol.


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## Tripp2005 (May 11, 2016)

So I just found out that my holy grail tends to run 9-10 weeks I think I'm going to run outta room in my cabinet because I let the bd on the back left and holy grail back right veg to long I thought it was mostly indica because of th3 rock hard nugs but I guess not what u guys think been pulling down tops tryimg to let other ctch up a bit fliped 4 days ago and there startimg to stretch have preflowers on everything but ak so   far there's 7 diff strains in here mob ,hg,bd,ak47,gsc,liberty haze and critical kush


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## Budley Doright (May 11, 2016)

Looks like your gonna be doing some training . It would be nice to get the canopy as even as possible. I just harvested all of my plants halfway down and there's a massive amount of fluff left so I'm going to let it keep going. The issue I had was no room left to train and I didn't lollypop anything, poor light penetration. Never had so much fluff from plants  it was like a whole other grow going on in the middle lol.


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## Budley Doright (May 11, 2016)

Also checked my root matt and it actually grew over my nozzle that shoots water up on to the lid bottom. How the hell it did that is amazing, its like a garden hose nozzle shooting out water every 15 minutes , just used my finger to open up a hole, the matts a solid 2-3" thick lol


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## Tripp2005 (May 11, 2016)

Yea been training but there just going crazy going to pull the tops down once more the front is about the same a few stragglers but the rest are growing about the same rate going to try to get a main cola on the smaller ones and let the big ones just do there thing after this tie down flipped 4 days ago and don't wanna have to prune at all but I'm gonna have to I think


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## Budley Doright (May 11, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Hey bud; no Airstone in the cloner, I wish that was the answer, any ways I'm excited to say I should be finishing up my new cloner this evening. I was mentioning wanting to do a cooler cloner, haven't been happy with my bucket lately, lid is cracked, water leaks out around the net pots because the holes are drilled a wee bit too big, only holds 2 gallons of water so it's a pain to keep cool and I think a larger Rez will maintain ph better. Found a matching tote to my vegger with a black lid already and it will fit like a glove next to my vegger in my system and also allow many more plant sites. Hopefully after that and I have a brand new pump I can use I can maintain much more stable numbers in the cloner, I recently added the use of a white board in my space haha! Simple tools make things much easier, now I just write my ec/ppm/ ph down every evening when I check and then I can monitor what it has done throughout the week,
> 
> May I ask what advice you didn't agree with from superstoner? Working on finishing up my single rail flower system with the drain at the end that runs into a tube into the side of my res so I don't have to cut any holes in my lid.


My bad! How are you adding DO to the water in the cloner? Any thoughts re the roots plugging the drain? Root blockages have caused me lots of grief but this time I put a silkscreen filter over the drain and not an issue so far, roots are staying where their suppose to .


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## Budley Doright (May 11, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> Yea been training but there just going crazy going to pull the tops down once more the front is about the same a few stragglers but the rest are growing about the same rate going to try to get a main cola on the smaller ones and let the big ones just do there thing after this tie down flipped 4 days ago and don't wanna have to prune at all but I'm gonna have to I think


Yes I am wondering if I should have . But if this fluff actually fills out I'll have an epic grow, if not I'll have an epic concentrate jar for the summer . I keep trying to put to many girls in one tray and it bites me every time lol.


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## Tripp2005 (May 11, 2016)

Lol right I did the same thing was like well there 16 sites so why not 16 then they started growing and I went down to 12 now I'm debating taking the AK out and mabey one hg for more room where I have a bunch of clones for next run allready


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## OGMMJ (May 11, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> My bad! How are you adding DO to the water in the cloner? Any thoughts re the roots plugging the drain? Root blockages have caused me lots of grief but this time I put a silkscreen filter over the drain and not an issue so far, roots are staying where their suppose to .


Hmmm I guess there is no added do to the water, nothing adding DO to the water in the cooler cloner plans, maybe I should add an Airstone... Do the sprayers not oxygenate the water enough ? Maybe Venturi on my pump?


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## OGMMJ (May 11, 2016)

Finished my new cloner 

Letting it run 24/7 for a night to with bleach solution see how bad leaks are and to sanitize everything. OnlY made it a 10 site for now but could easily hold 20-25. 

Rubber gap filler around the lid so far for sealer. Might have to do more will find out in the morning, if not I'll be transferring everything over to it tomorrow


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## Budley Doright (May 12, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Hmmm I guess there is no added do to the water, nothing adding DO to the water in the cooler cloner plans, maybe I should add an Airstone... Do the sprayers not oxygenate the water enough ? Maybe Venturi on my pump?


Yes sprayer nozzles will I'm pretty sure. Sorry man I have to pay attention , it's an aero cloner, not a bubble cloner, I'm getting old lol. I really try and stay away from airstones, they really did seem to fuck with my ph. Got way more stability once I moved away from them I think.


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## OGMMJ (May 12, 2016)

This tub is terrible for leaks so far.  Probably going to have to do 1/2in screws in each corner


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## OGMMJ (May 12, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> This tub is terrible for leaks so far.  Probably going to have to do 1/2in screws in each corner


Clamped it around all 4 sides and still a puddle of water on the floor on one side this morning, granted I always test them with the pump running 24/7 which it will never be.


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## Budley Doright (May 12, 2016)

Yes it will if your sprayer's hit the lip . My mine are higher and I use 180's and get nothing perhaps a foam tape strip on the tote lip


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## OGMMJ (May 12, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Yes it will if your sprayer's hit the lip . My mine are higher and I use 180's and get nothing perhaps a foam tape strip on the tote lip


You think I should rock the sprayer assembly lower or higher? It currently only sits about an inch or two under the bottom of the net pot but if I can just simply higher it or lower it to prevent leaks that'd be amazing, I fought this in the roughneck and then when I switched to the strongbox on my vegger I didn't need anything either but now this one is leak prone it seems. I'll mess with the sprayer assembly height when I get home, on the other hand it was only like a high of about 82 outside and the high in my flower room was 81 :/ not so good, res temps got up to 74.... Might continue my search into a chiller... Just really strapped for amps and space. I know superstoner doesn't monitor his temps and swears by pondzyme and hydroguard but with my breakout already so early on I don't expect to have that luck, with that being said that's not going to stop me from sending these plants up these seeing as these have already been infected and are just the testers anyway.


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## Budley Doright (May 12, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> You think I should rock the sprayer assembly lower or higher? It currently only sits about an inch or two under the bottom of the net pot but if I can just simply higher it or lower it to prevent leaks that'd be amazing, I fought this in the roughneck and then when I switched to the strongbox on my vegger I didn't need anything either but now this one is leak prone it seems. I'll mess with the sprayer assembly height when I get home, on the other hand it was only like a high of about 82 outside and the high in my flower room was 81 :/ not so good, res temps got up to 74.... Might continue my search into a chiller... Just really strapped for amps and space. I know superstoner doesn't monitor his temps and swears by pondzyme and hydroguard but with my breakout already so early on I don't expect to have that luck, with that being said that's not going to stop me from sending these plants up these seeing as these have already been infected and are just the testers anyway.


That's one of the things I disagree with lol. I did it for three years and yup grew plants but nothing compared to what they should have been, I got the rot using microbe lift pl, yes a pond microbe lol. So is that you cloner or your growing tote? Sorry like I said old and confused lol. Yes play with the height I guess, like I said my nozzles were all 180's on the outside and middle for that matter. Here's a pic of root chamber just as rot was setting in, yup lots of light getting in as I now see . It's to bad it didn't work out for me, I had just finished another one and was hoping to just swap just the lids to different totes in different rooms. There were three manifolds (two showing) and 16 spray heads.


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## OGMMJ (May 12, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> That's one of the things I disagree with lol. I did it for three years and yup grew plants but nothing compared to what they should have been, I got the rot using microbe lift pl, yes a pond microbe lol. So is that you cloner or your growing tote? Sorry like I said old and confused lol. Yes play with the height I guess, like I said my nozzles were all 180's on the outside and middle for that matter. Here's a pic of root chamber just as rot was setting in, yup lots of light getting in as I now see . It's to bad it didn't work out for me, I had just finished another one and was hoping to just swap just the lids to different totes in different roomsView attachment 3680154. There were three manifolds (two showing) and 16 spray heads.


Yeah to bad, but who knows I might end up with flood tables still you never know, I'm only like a month into hands on experience with this set up. 

The tote I posted was the new cloner I am having the leak issues with. (Fixed for the moment) 

If that's a pic of rot on your plants I'm still very worried lol. 

I'll take a pic of mine but warning they are dyed black from the organic nutes...... I'm changin the res out this weekend and leaving out the pure blend pro tea and knocking liquid karma down to 1ml a gallon to help whiten them up until I know the rots gone (probably isn't) 

I'll be transferring my seedlings from my cloner bucket to the new tote tomorrow as well as changing the veg nutes and cleaning the tent.


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## Budley Doright (May 12, 2016)

Yes they are black  lol. Looks like the time I tried black rain lol. Another stupid move by me listening to the know not so much hydro store guy lol.


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## OGMMJ (May 12, 2016)

Yeah I didn't even think about it when I added the pure blend pro tea to it, duhhh oh well the plants are still looking good and I'm still learning


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## Budley Doright (May 12, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Yeah I didn't even think about it when I added the pure blend pro tea to it, duhhh oh well the plants are still looking good and I'm still learning


We all are .


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## Budley Doright (May 13, 2016)

Here is a pic of the leftover fluff, seeing if it will bulk up a bit  and here is the root mat (flooded) also not sure what happened but Res temp is 77 this morning !


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## OGMMJ (May 13, 2016)

Nice setup! Can I ask what tables you have? I haven't done much search into it yet but the style I've seen has the pebbles in the whole tray and that floods and drains back to a res and the net pots just get shoved in the medium wherever you please.


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## Budley Doright (May 13, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Nice setup! Can I ask what tables you have? I haven't done much search into it yet but the style I've seen has the pebbles in the whole tray and that floods and drains back to a res and the net pots just get shoved in the medium wherever you please.


I use stacked totes same as you. Just shallower with only 4-6 net pots .


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## OGMMJ (May 13, 2016)

Gotcha, just no sprayer just simply fill it up and drain it... Intresting 

Just finished checking my veg and clone, been monitoring the ppm ph over the last 4 days and since I upped the ppm/ec by double last Rez change I've been intrigued to see what the plants do, and so far so good, plants look healthy as ever 

Buttttt my ppm has been slowly rising, like it's went up about 50ppms over the past few days I'm assuming this is because the feeding is a bit high (what I expected after mixing the batch) so I'm going to take a few gallons out and replace with RO water and bring it down to the 500/1.0 range and see how it acts there.


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## Tripp2005 (May 13, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Clamped it around all 4 sides and still a puddle of water on the floor on one side this morning, granted I always test them with the pump running 24/7 which it will never be.


So I noticed that ur having trouble with cloning I have had my best success with this easy at home build
1. 2 outlet airstone

2. 3 and 1/2 gal bucket 

3. Air stones 

4.reg water ( I'm using advanced sensi grow at 1 ml per gal and b52 at 1 ml per gallon and my other with plan 7.0 tap100 ppm advanced quicker but same outcome roots) 

5. Foam cutting for holes (anything really to hold cuttings in water 

So cut some hole in top of bucket for plants 
Then cut 2 small holes one in middle and one on side for hose 
Fill 
Take cuttings
Make sure the bottom is about 1 inch in water 

Roots will appear with in a week first looks like little white lumps then they loop right out 
Cheap and easy


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## Tripp2005 (May 13, 2016)

Oh plus one cup of hberg tea can't forget the bennies


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## OGMMJ (May 13, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> Oh plus one cup of hberg tea can't forget the bennies


I am not having an issue cloning (yet) I currently rocking the bucket aeroponic cloner basically what you recommended, i just need something that can hold more then 9 and can hold more then 2 gallons of water, with it being so small it's been running warmer then the tent has. So I've just been building something that would be a little more efficient and simpler to monitor and keep water temps low. The one I built was just leaking. I'm still messing with that but think I'm going to be able to just squeeze a Coleman cooler in the tent next to the veg system and rock the cooler cloner build.


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## Tripp2005 (May 14, 2016)

If u run bennies in it u won't have to worries about temp


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## Tripp2005 (May 14, 2016)

And if u use advanced u don't have to check the pH as often I do it once a week


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## OGMMJ (May 14, 2016)

After all those troubles I yanked out those stupid yellow clamp handles from the cloner, shoved ear plugs in the holes where the handles stayed in place and of course finally NO LEAKS!


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## OGMMJ (May 14, 2016)

So I'll be changing out the cloner today to the new build and running the cloner most likely sterile for a week and see how that goes, I've still been getting some clear slimey roots on the new seedlings, not much, and most of the new ones are all white but the two seedlings that have been in the cloner the longest have some transparency going on in the roots. 

Another thing is these things barley grow in this cloner idk what's going on there, maybe the low temps, but I mean the two seedlings are probably 10-12 days old and still on first two leaves, they all grew about 3-4 inches out of the rapid rooter then I threw them in collars and in the cloner buckets. Not to worried though because the plants in the veg system were the same way.


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## OGMMJ (May 14, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> If u run bennies in it u won't have to worries about temp


Hopefully this is the case within reason because it's only gotten up to about 80 here so far this year and my flower room has hit 82 water temps at 74 root zone like 76  

So needless to say I'm not to excited for the 90-100 degree days. Next year I really need to work out where my exhaust is actually exhausting to in my attic and get it as far away from above my room as possible . This is frustrating with a 8x3x6 room and a 9000 btu ac and only 1200 watts I see people running that with just passive intakes and aircooled hoods.


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## Budley Doright (May 14, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> If u run bennies in it u won't have to worries about temp


Ummm that's not been my experience lol. I got some ok results most of the time but keeping the water chilled (not cloning) has improved my results exponentially. The best addition to my room has been a chiller after 3 years of thinking it wasn't needed.


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## OGMMJ (May 14, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Ummm that's not been my experience lol. I got some ok results most of the time but keeping the water chilled (not cloning) has improved my results exponentially. The best addition to my room has been a chiller after 3 years of thinking it wasn't needed.


For this reason is why I would really like to get a tiny chiller for my flower rez, only gonna be 15-20 gallons max, then if my room gets to 80-85 I'll be alright this year, I'm looking into a mini split and sealing it completely next year and just exhaust my lights straight outside pulling air from outside the room as well so no scrubbing needed.


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## Budley Doright (May 14, 2016)

I start my cuttings in root riot cubes under a dome and have roots in 6-7 days but keep the chamber quite warm and 100% humidity. As soon as roots peek out of the cube I transplant them into the veg room and growth is phenomenal. In the veg Res I use locally mixed nutes (GH copy I think), vitanimo, and hydroguard. Great success so far . The vitanimo has stopped all leaf blotching that I had and seems to keep things nice and green, along with the Res kept at 66F, just finished the last indoor harvest of the year and planted 10 outside today. Gonna do 20 outside this summer with 10 being auto's .


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## Budley Doright (May 14, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> For this reason is why I would really like to get a tiny chiller for my flower rez, only gonna be 15-20 gallons max, then if my room gets to 80-85 I'll be alright this year, I'm looking into a mini split and sealing it completely next year and just exhaust my lights straight outside pulling air from outside the room as well so no scrubbing needed.


I've seen some pretty cheap used aquarium ones on kijiji. If you seal the room you'll need to add CO2, it's a never ending cycle of money lol. My passive one had stopped being able to chill things now but the plugs pulled .


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## rkymtnman (May 14, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> For this reason is why I would really like to get a tiny chiller for my flower rez, only gonna be 15-20 gallons max, then if my room gets to 80-85 I'll be alright this year, I'm looking into a mini split and sealing it completely next year and just exhaust my lights straight outside pulling air from outside the room as well so no scrubbing needed.


@OGMMJ 
you ever thought of trying something like this?
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/iceprobe-thermoelectric-aquarium-chiller-nova-tec.html?gclid=CLyGw9Hl2cwCFQetaQodbZkIaw


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## Budley Doright (May 14, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Gotcha, just no sprayer just simply fill it up and drain it... Intresting
> 
> Just finished checking my veg and clone, been monitoring the ppm ph over the last 4 days and since I upped the ppm/ec by double last Rez change I've been intrigued to see what the plants do, and so far so good, plants look healthy as ever
> 
> Buttttt my ppm has been slowly rising, like it's went up about 50ppms over the past few days I'm assuming this is because the feeding is a bit high (what I expected after mixing the batch) so I'm going to take a few gallons out and replace with RO water and bring it down to the 500/1.0 range and see how it acts there.


I wouldn't worry to much IMO about 50 ppm's, you could try to lower it a bit but I would be happy. Is your ph going down? Over a week my EC will climb slowly and ph will slowly go down. If the ph keeps dropping before I can change it up I will add some up but it seems to be a short lived solution as it will continue raising after a couple of days.


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## Budley Doright (May 14, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> @OGMMJ
> you ever thought of trying something like this?
> http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/iceprobe-thermoelectric-aquarium-chiller-nova-tec.html?gclid=CLyGw9Hl2cwCFQetaQodbZkIaw


I don't think that would work, the capacity on thermoelectric units is not adequate for much more than one DWC pail. The other issue is they are just transferring heat from water to the room and as the room gets hotter capacity is even more effected.


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## OGMMJ (May 14, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> @OGMMJ
> you ever thought of trying something like this?
> http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/iceprobe-thermoelectric-aquarium-chiller-nova-tec.html?gclid=CLyGw9Hl2cwCFQetaQodbZkIaw


Hey! Yeah I have seen those just never heard anything good about them, I mean that would be nice but I don't feel like it would do it for me and would be better off trying to find a 1/8 - 1/4hp or so chiller for 200-400 bucks, the details says it can cool 10 gallons 6-8 degrees under ambient so even at that if my room hits 85 my Rez could be 76-79 past the point of return I would think. I would also assume bennies aren't holding off the bad at those temps.

I've never heard of kijiji I'll check it out.


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## rkymtnman (May 14, 2016)

oh well! back to the drawing board. i had never heard good or bad about those ice probes.


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## Budley Doright (May 14, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Hey! Yeah I have seen those just never heard anything good about them, I mean that would be nice but I don't feel like it would do it for me and would be better off trying to find a 1/8 - 1/4hp or so chiller for 200-400 bucks, the details says it can cool 10 gallons 6-8 degrees under ambient so even at that if my room hits 85 my Rez could be 76-79 past the point of return I would think. I would also assume bennies aren't holding off the bad at those temps.
> 
> I've never heard of kijiji I'll check it out.


LOL sorry just assumed Kijiji was everywhere . It's a classified ad thing here.


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## OGMMJ (May 14, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> LOL sorry just assumed Kijiji was everywhere . It's a classified ad thing here.


Ahhh gotcha around here it's the infamous craigslist


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## Budley Doright (May 14, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Ahhh gotcha around here it's the infamous craigslist


Ya got that too lol.


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## Tripp2005 (May 14, 2016)

My re


Budley Doright said:


> Ummm that's not been my experience lol. I got some ok results most of the time but keeping the water chilled (not cloning) has improved my results exponentially. The best addition to my room has been a chiller after 3 years of thinking it wasn't needed.


 I've been running hberg tea and my res goes up to about 72 at the hottest point in the day had brown slime soon as I out the hydroguard and hberg tea in it haven't had any problems so far soon as I went a week without them I saw signs of root rot cuz pH dropped a bunch added the tea and all better bennies are like a magic bullet if u ask me that's just my experience this is my first hydro dwc run ever and having very good luck and yes I tried the frozen water bittel and they deff like it so I'm sure it be a great purchase but I don't have a need for one atm I have a single 17 gal res


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## Tripp2005 (May 14, 2016)

Bennies deff help with temp but after 75 they don't work as well


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## OGMMJ (May 14, 2016)

That's the other thing is I haven't even tried out using frozen gallons or 2 liters yet so that's always the easy resort, if I could toss a frozen 2 liter in at 9 am and have it still be 72 or less by 8pm that would be primetime


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## Budley Doright (May 14, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> That's the other thing is I haven't even tried out using frozen gallons or 2 liters yet so that's always the easy resort, if I could toss a frozen 2 liter in at 9 am and have it still be 72 or less by 8pm that would be primetime


You can try but it didn't work for me, perhaps in a cooler though. It took way to many bottles lol.


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## Budley Doright (May 14, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> My re
> 
> I've been running hberg tea and my res goes up to about 72 at the hottest point in the day had brown slime soon as I out the hydroguard and hberg tea in it haven't had any problems so far soon as I went a week without them I saw signs of root rot cuz pH dropped a bunch added the tea and all better bennies are like a magic bullet if u ask me that's just my experience this is my first hydro dwc run ever and having very good luck and yes I tried the frozen water bittel and they deff like it so I'm sure it be a great purchase but I don't have a need for one atm I have a single 17 gal res


You could be right but I ran beanie tea and got rot. As soon as I started the hydroguard and chiller no more but never ran hydroguard by itself without chiller


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## OGMMJ (May 14, 2016)

Nice cool day here today and the flower room is at 70 water temp at 63, wish it was 50 outside all year round


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## Budley Doright (May 14, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Nice cool day here today and the flower room is at 70 water temp at 63, wish it was 50 outside all year round


Ya same here but almost 80 here yesterday. Supposed to go to 4c here tonight, hope the girls don't catch cold but they are pretty hardy as I've drowned them twice, left them in starter pots, and generally treated them like shit, now their planted in it lol.


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## OGMMJ (May 14, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Ya same here but almost 80 here yesterday. Supposed to go to 4c here tonight, hope the girls don't catch cold but they are pretty hardy as I've drowned them twice, left them in starter pots, and generally treated them like shit, now their planted in it lol.


Yeah it was 82 as a high here yesterday low of 38 here tonight lol, very similar


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## Tripp2005 (May 14, 2016)

Yes the weather her has been weird wanna get some going outside got the area ready but it still getting like 35_40 out at night don't think my stativa will enjoy that to much


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## Tripp2005 (May 14, 2016)

Just bought a gram of gsc from the local dispensary got like 20 gsc seeds in it i was pissed then was like best ten bucks I've spent Ina while poping those asap


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## OGMMJ (May 16, 2016)

Switched to the cooler cloner, running just RO and 3% h2o2 at 12ml/gallon, got some pool shock. Don't want to run sterile but I have heard good things about keeping cloner/seedling system sterile and introduce bennies once there is nice developed roots. So going to give that a shot. Veg plants look nice, roots finally making it down to the second tub so I'm going to just use some window screen and maybe staple it to the drain hole, or some kind of glue.

Anyways going to add another 250watt CFL to the tent now that there's starting to be some foliage, been pulling off fan leaves as soon as they are large and blocking light, going to have roughly 8-10 clones to take by the end of this week.


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## Tripp2005 (May 16, 2016)

My girls are stretching bad how long is the stretch norm I know it is strain dependent have blue dream holy grail haze these are the 2 biggest just don't wanna run out ta room lol


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## Tripp2005 (May 16, 2016)

Herd 2-4 weeks anyone have any experience with these 2 strains the holy grail gets up to ten ft outside so that's why I'm a Lil worried


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## OGMMJ (May 16, 2016)

If your referring to when you switch to flower plants will almost always double in size or more by the end of flower, as far as a stretching period yeah 2-3 weeks, 4 would be a bit long I would think... Make sure your lights not to far away for its intensity.


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## Budley Doright (May 16, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> Herd 2-4 weeks anyone have any experience with these 2 strains the holy grail gets up to ten ft outside so that's why I'm a Lil worried


Yes 2-3 sometimes 4, but then they still grow up lol. Maybe get ready to train to keep em out of the light. I always run into height issues .


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## Budley Doright (May 16, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Switched to the cooler cloner, running just RO and 3% h2o2 at 12ml/gallon, got some pool shock. Don't want to run sterile but I have heard good things about keeping cloner/seedling system sterile and introduce bennies once there is nice developed roots. So going to give that a shot. Veg plants look nice, roots finally making it down to the second tub so I'm going to just use some window screen and maybe staple it to the drain hole, or some kind of glue.
> 
> Anyways going to add another 250watt CFL to the tent now that there's starting to be some foliage, been pulling off fan leaves as soon as they are large and blocking light, going to have roughly 8-10 clones to take by the end of this week.


Sooo your a defoillater huh .... well we're done then . Just kidding lol. I've tried the leaf pulling thing but it seems I suck at it. Never helped me and always did better just leaving them but have seen some epic grows pulling leaves . Pretty controversial subject though lol just hope it helps your girls.


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## OGMMJ (May 16, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Sooo your a defoillater huh .... well we're done then . Just kidding lol. I've tried the leaf pulling thing but it seems I suck at it. Never helped me and always did better just leaving them but have seen some epic grows pulling leaves . Pretty controversial subject though lol just hope it helps your girls.


Remember we don't even know if they are girls yet, well one was femmed. But yeah all the rest are mysterious. Mixture of captain cook lemon Thai and sensi sky I think. Can't wait to get things rolling and bust into my genetics collection


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## linky (May 17, 2016)

What are the amounts to run with hth shock in dwc setup? I see the amounts used in post 1, is this still current/relevant?

thanks


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## rkymtnman (May 17, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> got some pool shock.


finally ran out of dutchmaster zone and switching over to pool shock. it's a tiny amount for only 10 gallons water.


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## OGMMJ (May 17, 2016)

linky said:


> What are the amounts to run with hth shock in dwc setup? I see the amounts used in post 1, is this still current/relevant?
> 
> thanks


I'm sure the post on here would work fine but there is an extensive thread on this I will post a link, I think it gives precise instructions on the dilution on the first page 

https://www.rollitup.org/t/make-2200-worth-of-clear-rez-for-4.423650/


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## rkymtnman (May 17, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> I'm sure the post on here would work fine but there is an extensive thread on this I will post a link, I think it gives precise instructions on the dilution on the first page
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/make-2200-worth-of-clear-rez-for-4.423650/


yep.
1g per gallon. then 1 oz per 5 gal res solution. same mix as clear rez. 

i'm using at 0.15g per 10 gallons.


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## OGMMJ (May 17, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> yep.
> 1g per gallon. then 1 oz per 5 gal res solution. same mix as clear rez.
> 
> i'm using at 0.15g per 10 gallons.


So your just weighing out .15 grams and adding it directly to your Rez?


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## rkymtnman (May 17, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> So your just weighing out .15 grams and adding it directly to your Rez?


yep. it's maybe 30 granules. lol. this LB bag is gonna last a decade. 

even if i mix up a gallon, it will last a few grows. i heard the chlorine will become weaker the longer it sits.


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## OGMMJ (May 17, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> yep. it's maybe 30 granules. lol. this LB bag is gonna last a decade.
> 
> even if i mix up a gallon, it will last a few grows. i heard the chlorine will become weaker the longer it sits.


I believe I got the same stuff, shock and swim but the labels blue not red, but anyway how often do you add that .15 ? Every day or at Rez changes only?


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## Budley Doright (May 17, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> I believe I got the same stuff, shock and swim but the labels blue not red, but anyway how often do you add that .15 ? Every day or at Rez changes only?


Wonder if a pool test kit would help stay on track? Shock disipitates at different amounts so you'll never know how much is still there. Is the water out of your tap chlorinated?


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## OGMMJ (May 17, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Wonder if a pool test kit would help stay on track? Shock disipitates at different amounts so you'll never know how much is still there. Is the water out of your tap chlorinated?


Yeah I'm sure it is but I can run RO

Right now I'm running RO and 10 ml a gallon of h2o2 in the cloner. I'm still getting slimy roots in the cloner so I'm going to try the sterile route


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## Tripp2005 (May 17, 2016)

Oh I should have pkunty of room added the co2 to the girls and there taking off now Lil buds poping out bout 60 days left and counting


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## Budley Doright (May 18, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Yeah I'm sure it is but I can run RO
> 
> Right now I'm running RO and 10 ml a gallon of h2o2 in the cloner. I'm still getting slimy roots in the cloner so I'm going to try the sterile route


You are running sterile now with the peroxide but I did find bleach to be a bit more effective in my rot. The chlorine in your tap water should provide the protection needed for the clones if changed I would think but I do clones in cubes so no clue. Hope you guys get it figured though.


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## rkymtnman (May 18, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> I believe I got the same stuff, shock and swim but the labels blue not red, but anyway how often do you add that .15 ? Every day or at Rez changes only?


is it hth shock 3? 49%chlorine 

i do drain to waste so 0.15g per week per 10 gallons


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## rkymtnman (May 18, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Wonder if a pool test kit would help stay on track? Shock disipitates at different amounts so you'll never know how much is still there. Is the water out of your tap chlorinated?


i bought some test strips. i do drain to waste so the chlorine level should stay constant. i'm going to add it and let my waterfall dissolve it all for about an hour then add nutes.


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## rkymtnman (May 18, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Yeah I'm sure it is but I can run RO
> 
> Right now I'm running RO and 10 ml a gallon of h2o2 in the cloner. I'm still getting slimy roots in the cloner so I'm going to try the sterile route


how often do you add the peroxide?


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## OGMMJ (May 18, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> how often do you add the peroxide?


I've been adding every two days or so but not a fan and it's only the 3% so I have to add a good amount, I'm going to try the pool shock, I'm on a recirculating system though so I'm going to just add it at the res change and that's it?


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## OGMMJ (May 18, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> You are running sterile now with the peroxide but I did find bleach to be a bit more effective in my rot. The chlorine in your tap water should provide the protection needed for the clones if changed I would think but I do clones in cubes so no clue. Hope you guys get it figured though.


Yeah I know I shouldn't have phrased it like that, just mean I'm not happy with the results so far so I'm gonna give the pool shock a try, I'm still going to be running bennies in veg and flower though.

As far as my tap goes I prefer to not use it I was running it in the seedling/cloner system half with RO and also tried just tap and for some reason my tap water is evil, it's impossible to keep the ph down when I run it, goes up to 8 alllll the time.


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## OGMMJ (May 18, 2016)

Also been considering trying just RO and pondzyme in my cloner, tried hydroguard a bit but didn't see much change at all.


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## rkymtnman (May 18, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> I've been adding every two days or so but not a fan and it's only the 3% so I have to add a good amount, I'm going to try the pool shock, I'm on a recirculating system though so I'm going to just add it at the res change and that's it?


yep. i'm just gonna add at every res change.

that is the one issue i have with peroxide: how do you know when it breaks down into just water and that you need to add more?


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## OGMMJ (May 18, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> yep. i'm just gonna add at every res change.
> 
> that is the one issue i have with peroxide: how do you know when it breaks down into just water and that you need to add more?


Yeah I mean I guess same goes for the pool shock, I just don't like how much I have to add a and with it being only 3% concentration I'm not a fan of everything else that's probably in it. So I'm going to just follow the directions on the thread for the hth shock dilution and try it out, if I'm not happy with those results I will try out pondzyme, I would rather run bennies in the cloner but whatever works I'll be happy with... Anyone know if it's better to run sterile or bennies for cloning?


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## rkymtnman (May 18, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Anyone know if it's better to run sterile or bennies for cloning?


i run sterile from start to finish.


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## Budley Doright (May 18, 2016)

It's better to use root riot cubes lol. Actually I have no clue as I've never plugged in my spray cloner because the cubes work so well I figured if it's not broke don't break it .


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## rkymtnman (May 18, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> It's better to use root riot cubes lol. Actually I have no clue as I've never plugged in my spray cloner because the cubes work so well I figured if it's not broke don't break it .


i just grow from seed in rapid rooters. i'm like you. i've done great with that method, not changing


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## rkymtnman (May 18, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Yeah I mean I guess same goes for the pool shock, I just don't like how much I have to add a and with it being only 3% concentration I'm not a fan of everything else that's probably in it. So I'm going to just follow the directions on the thread for the hth shock dilution and try it out, if I'm not happy with those results I will try out pondzyme, I would rather run bennies in the cloner but whatever works I'll be happy with... Anyone know if it's better to run sterile or bennies for cloning?


just did my first res. i went a bit over at 0.22g for my 10 gallons. mixed up super easy with just dumping water on top of it. ran my pump for 30 mins and mixed in nutes.


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## Budley Doright (May 18, 2016)

I put 3 tablespoons in the dishwasher to clean it and almost killed everyone in the house from the chlorine gas, had to leave the house for a few hours lol.


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## OGMMJ (May 18, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> just did my first res. i went a bit over at 0.22g for my 10 gallons. mixed up super easy with just dumping water on top of it. ran my pump for 30 mins and mixed in nutes.


Nice! I will do mine tomorrow, I only have 5 gallons in my cloner lol! So weighing that out will be fun, might just do the water dilution for that reason then mix that in


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## Budley Doright (May 19, 2016)

OGMMJ said:


> Nice! I will do mine tomorrow, I only have 5 gallons in my cloner lol! So weighing that out will be fun, might just do the water dilution for that reason then mix that in


And use warm water, it mixes better. I'll be watching this, it's a real mystery to me as to why your not getting this under control. I personally think it's the sprayer setup that leads to bad roots but that's only a theory. I do know a few that have had issues with the sprayer's and abandoned them as I have.


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## rkymtnman (May 19, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I put 3 tablespoons in the dishwasher to clean it and almost killed everyone in the house from the chlorine gas, had to leave the house for a few hours lol.


i did have a few moles out in the yard. i put a good scoop in each hole and let the rain that was coming later do the rest. RIP moles.


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## Budley Doright (May 19, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> i did have a few moles out in the yard. i put a good scoop in each hole and let the rain that was coming later do the rest. RIP moles.


.


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## OGMMJ (May 21, 2016)

Just mixed my first shock mix in the cloner, went ahead and cut three clones off the biggest plant since all the foliage was just blocking the other shorter ones anyway, still don't know the sex of anything, if these clones root before I get everything going smoothly (which they will) I'm going to just send the mom upstairs hopefully by then I can get some clones off the other 3 and send those up a week later or so, mixed .17g into my 10 gallons of RO water in my cloner, I had a thought about clones and RO.... Is there anyway the RO water would actually suck the nutrients left in the cutting out of it into the water causing the cutting to become deficient quicker then using say tap or spring water. Just a thought. Anyways the roots on all my new seedlings and the seedlings in general were lookin terrible, while next door at the veg system everything is looking as good as ever.


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## Keesje (Jul 14, 2016)

I really did my best to read this whole topic.
But when that J. Henry started to talk all this nonsense... I felt so sad.
"Plenty of air does not insure plenty of oxygen, air is not oxygen."
Yes, the last part is true, but nonsense anyway. If there is a free flow of air (let's say from outside to the roots of your plants) then there will be always 21% of oxygen in the air. Always. When the roots use some of the oxygen, this oxygen will immediately be replaced.
Only in extreme circumstances (in an explosion, welding, too many people in a small room without ventilation) the oxygen can not be replaced quick enough.
Tell the line "plenty of air does not insure plenty of oxygen" to a firefighter....

Then, getting more DO in your water is useless most of the time. The normal-amount is more then enough, and it is very hard not to get enough DO in your water. Some movement, an airstone > plenty of DO.
Even when water is warm or all the DO has gone, roots still will get their oxygen. Why?
It is true that the cells in the roots can only absorb DO. But that does not mean that this works only when you give them water with enough DO. If pure oxygen (or air with 21%) in some way gets to the roots, and it gets in touch with a wet root, the root will absorb the oxygen. How? The gas-oxygen will dissolve in the thin film of water and turn into DO. And the cells will absorb this.
Oxygen as gas is thousands of times more effective in getting oxygen to your roots then giving them water with enough DO.
This is how plants grow in soil, rockwool, whatever.
That is why commercial growers in greenhouses who grow on rockwool are so concerned that the rockwool keeps an open structure. The oxygen has to get to the roots. The film of water around the roots will do the rest.

In DWC the bubbles created by the airstone are more important for getting gas-oxygen to the roots. Yes, the airstone also insures that gas-oxygen becomes DO. But the bubbles of air around and in between the roots provide lots of gas-oxygen to the roots (to the film of water around the roots actually. The oxygen disolves > DO > absorbed by the cells)

Another proof of this is rice.
Rice grows in water that stands still and is warm. Almost no DO.
Still the rice grows. Why? Oxygen gets to the roots through a tube, similar to a snorkel.
The oxygen (gas) gets in touch with the water around the roots and turns into DO > Bingo.

Oh, and that machine that produces more oxygen (electrolysis) is useless and a waste of money.
Just make sure your roots get enough gas-oxygen, and you are ok.
Always look what commercial growers use, and follow them after it has proven itself.

Perhaps this was all already told in this topic, but again, after 7 pages of blablabla I could not get myself to read any further.


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## Tripp2005 (Jul 14, 2016)

At first that j henrey had me going AMD researching this topic I found with my set up a Bennie tea is all I needed


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## J Henry (Jul 17, 2016)

Keesje said:


> Another proof of this is rice.
> Rice grows in water that stands still and is warm. Almost no DO.
> Still the rice grows. Why? Oxygen gets to the roots through a tube, similar to a snorkel.
> The oxygen (gas) gets in touch with the water around the roots and turns into DO > Bingo.
> ...


Hay – “Purple Haze”, the classic example of the drug induced logic, hallucinations, meaningless rambling...

Example:

So what DO Saturation is enough in your unscientific opinion?

This is “Oxygen” - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen

This is “Air” - https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air

Read this and learn the difference between these 2 gases.

And you really did read further…


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## Keesje (Jul 17, 2016)

Perhaps 1 page further.

I know the difference between air and oxygen.
That does not make your posts less nonsense.
As I wrote (and read it again) air contains for 21% of oxygen. Always.
So where there is air, there is always 21% of oxygen in a free atmosphere.
Always, except in very exceptionel occasions like in an explosion or in a room with no ventilation, and other enviroments when there is no free flow of air, and where a lot of oxygen is consumed, and on the top of Mount Everest.

I can explain it again, but I guess you are so stubbern that you won't read it anyway.
But then perhaps for other people.
Yes, roots can only absorb DO. But that does not mean you have to give your plants water with a high DO level.
It is much simpeler (and more effective) to make sure that oxygen in gas-form can reach your roots.
This is what most growers do when they grow in soil, in cocos, on rockwool, RFX1, etc.
Nobody in his right mind would give plants in such set ups water with a DO of 9 mg/liter.
You can give them water with no DO at all and still the roots would get oxygen.
Because oxygen in gas-form reaches the roots, the roots are wet, the oxygen dissolves in the water around the roots, the cells absorb this Dissolved Oxygen. Job done.

In Hydro it is no difference.
Yes, you can give them water with a temperature around 20 degrees Celsius with a DO of around 9 mg/liter.
This amount of DO you reach easily with even a small waterflow, some movement, an airstone. 
But again, it is much easier and more important to make sure that the roots hang in air now and then, or often. (and yes again: I know air is not equal to oxygen, but it contains 21 % oxygen, always)

This is how all commercial growers do it.
It is not wisdom from a book or some weird websites. 
Or blablabla from a company that wants to sell an electrolysis machine.

But every now and then someone who does not grow himself, never has been in a greenhouse, but spends a lot of time on the more obscure corners of the World Wide Web, comes around with semi-scientific nonsense.
Millions of growers around the world (and I don't mean weedgrowers) but farmers who grow flowers, vegetables, fruits are doing it wrong but J. Henry knows how to do it rigth.


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## J Henry (Jul 17, 2016)

Keesje said:


> Always, except in very exceptionel occasions like in an explosion or in a room with no ventilation, and other enviroments when there is no free flow of air, and where a lot of oxygen is consumed, and on the top of Mount Everest.


New Fact: At the top of Mt. Everest

Contrary to popular belief [and misconception] the percentage of oxygen in the air doesn’t change significantly with altitude up to about 85km (52.8 miles) from the earth! http://www.vmeverest09.com/oxygen-at-altitude/


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## Keesje (Jul 17, 2016)

Yes, you are right there.
I had to look that up (so did you)
But it was a very, very small part of my story and not relevant for the explanation at all.

As I see you have nothing else to say that is on topic, perhaps you could go picking on my grammar.
I make a lot of mistakes there as well.


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## Tripp2005 (Jul 18, 2016)

I think Bennie tea works best for root rot ,brown algae and such back on topic


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## Tripp2005 (Jul 18, 2016)

I think Bennie tea works best for root rot ,brown algae and such back on topic


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## rkymtnman (Jul 18, 2016)

Tripp2005 said:


> I think Bennie tea works best for root rot ,brown algae and such back on topic


chlorine. easier and cheaper and more effective IMO>


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## Budley Doright (Jul 18, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> chlorine. easier and cheaper and more effective IMO>


I had terrible luck with chlorine but maybe didn't use enough, my roots were on the verge of death.


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## rkymtnman (Jul 18, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I had terrible luck with chlorine but maybe didn't use enough, my roots were on the verge of death.


what ppm chlorine did you run at? i'm at 4ppm for this grow. plants look great and with hempy buckets, my res temps are pushing 80 during lights on.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 18, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> what ppm chlorine did you run at? i'm at 4ppm for this grow. plants look great and with hempy buckets, my res temps are pushing 80 during lights on.


Not sure . I was following a guide here somewhere. The issue I had was not knowing how much was actually still in the water but I guess a pool test kit would have helped lol. I switched to hydroguard and it worked really well, but yes a bit pricey . I also chilled the res at the same time .


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## rkymtnman (Jul 18, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Not sure . I was following a guide here somewhere. The issue I had was not knowing how much was actually still in the water but I guess a pool test kit would have helped lol. I switched to hydroguard and it worked really well, but yes a bit pricey . I also chilled the res at the same time .


yeah, i see your point. a plant does use chlorine so it would drop over time. i'm drain to waste so my ppms are constant.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 18, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> yeah, i see your point. a plant does use chlorine so it would drop over time. i'm drain to waste so my ppms are constant.


Or sometimes it doesn't drop . Just found it much less stressful to run hydroguard and it really did bring the plants back from the dead lol. I tried everything and things didn't improve but the chlorine did help more than the H2O2


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## SpookBud (Jul 20, 2016)

I haven't been following this thread really but figured I would contribute my experience last grow. I can't exactly remember why they started to slime but after they did I re-enforced the light proofing and added more air and changed out the stone. It slowed down but did not go away. When rot started I trimmed the root mass of all dead roots and then soaked in a H202 solution. It would be better for a few days and then get worse again. I realized it was because the H202 would stunt it but as soon as it dissipated it would come back. I started adding H202 to the rez every few days and also soaked the root mass in a stronger H202 solution once a week during rez changes. This slowed it down for a while but it kept coming back. As a last ditch effort I trimmed the roots again, soaked in a strong H202 solution, rinsed really well, and then added hydroguard to the rez. That worked and they made it to harvest. The brown slime caused a lot of nutrient issues so these plants had a long veg time but the harvest was decent. Getting those plants to something that was nice to smoke was very hard and took a lot of time (seed to harvest was around 5.5 months). 

For those having slime or root rot symptoms I would definitely recommend hydroguard.


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## Corvette kidd (Jul 20, 2016)

Southern ag garden friendly fungicide and great white. A lot of the time when people think they have root rot, they actually have a type of cyanobacteria that is usually bleach and chlorine resistant. The bennies will save your life and improve your harvest garunteed.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 21, 2016)

Corvette kidd said:


> Southern ag garden friendly fungicide and great white. A lot of the time when people think they have root rot, they actually have a type of cyanobacteria that is usually bleach and chlorine resistant. The bennies will save your life and improve your harvest garunteed.


Perhaps that explains the success of some but not all.


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## Tripp2005 (Jul 23, 2016)

I think sterile is ok but I get better results with bennies IMO


rkymtnman said:


> chlorine. easier and cheaper and more effective IMO>


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## Chillin chillin (Jul 23, 2016)

PetFlora said:


> Hmmmm. Tell me what water source- municipal, well, rain barrel..?


 Cover res so light does not penetrate. Nutrients, water and light= alge


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## jimmy1life (Jul 26, 2016)

i had few samples of Slf 100 worked great its gone and now trying to decide i see people ranting pondzyme and pool shock. I am totally lost should i go back to the hydro store. or the pond and pool sections? i see that the h2o2 is used up or dispersed of almost instanly, sick of chunking cash to the hydro stores switched to maxi and have been on a saving money trip lately lol.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 26, 2016)

^^^^hydroguard worked for my setup where bleach didn't, neither did H2O2 and it's getting pretty expensive here and hard to find at 35% .


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## Chillin chillin (Jul 26, 2016)

500 ml hydro guard
500 ml fulvic acid
500 ml great white
Remainder of 5 gal water
Cap and shake daily for 3 days
Use 5 ml per gallon, good for 7 days


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## OneHitDone (Jul 29, 2016)

Has anyone tried this product or heard anything about it for preventing root issues in hydro?

 

http://www.growthproducts.com/pages/golf.asp?tables=featured&product=35


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## Budley Doright (Jul 29, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> 500 ml hydro guard
> 500 ml fulvic acid
> 500 ml great white
> Remainder of 5 gal water
> ...


Do you really need both great white and hydroguard? Would not one or the other work?


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## Chillin chillin (Jul 29, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Do you really need both great white and hydroguard? Would not one or the other work?


 It may, but w both together we have very white healthy roots in our lil 6" cubes


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## Chillin chillin (Jul 29, 2016)




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## Budley Doright (Jul 29, 2016)

Chillin chillin said:


> View attachment 3744550


Yes amazing!!! Looks like a sea creature lol.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 29, 2016)

Perhaps I'll try some, reading your other threads and an amazing job. I use AquaFlakes but really pricey here, also having great luck with this 
http://www.ez-gro.com/ doubt they ship but amazing price point and same growth patterns but I'm not anywhere close to you guys. I'm a retired field farmer lol.


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