# SST (sprouted seed tea) do's and donts?



## Tjingles (Feb 25, 2014)

Okay so I'm starting this thread in hopes of expanding knowledge of SST. As of now I don know to much but am learning more every day.

I know after the initial soak to remove growth suppressors you should soak seeds in a coconut/ fulvic acid solution as this increases enzyme activity exponentially. 

That is unfortunatly the extent of my sst knowledge. However I hope this thread will be helpfull for myself and many others. I will be posting new things I learn about the benefits of sst and ss in general.

A quastion I would like to start off with for anyone feeling kind enough sto answer is: 
I have 1/2-1/2 alfalfa and barley bubbling in a quart mason jar for tomorrows watering. I also have an aact brewing with wmc and alaska hummus. CAN I add my ss brew to my aact with out negatively affecting the enzymes I waited patentially to form? This watering is in the morning so any opinions or facts are greatly appreciated.

I do hope we can all learn and grow togeather and hopefully this thread will blow uo and help a lot of people


Jingles,


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## st0wandgrow (Feb 25, 2014)

A SST and an ACT together are fine. SST's provide enzymes (proteins) which are not a living organism and not a food stock for microbes afaik. The act will inoculate your soil with microbes and fungi (dependent on food stock and length of brew). 

I'm curious as to what other people are doing with sst's. I have been doing a 12 hour soak, dumping that water, then aerating/soaking for an additional 36-48 hours..... Or until I get a 1/4+ inch sprout then just applying the water sans the sprouts. I'd like to hear what others are doing. Specifically soak/bubble duration, and if you're blending up the sprouts before applying (if so, why?).

Good thread!


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## Tjingles (Feb 25, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> A SST and an ACT together are fine. SST's provide enzymes (proteins) which are not a living organism and not a food stock for microbes afaik. The act will inoculate your soil with microbes and fungi (dependent on food stock and length of brew).
> 
> I'm curious as to what other people are doing with sst's. I have been doing a 12 hour soak, dumping that water, then aerating/soaking for an additional 36-48 hours..... Or until I get a 1/4+ inch sprout then just applying the water sans the sprouts. I'd like to hear what others are doing. Specifically soak/bubble duration, and if you're blending up the sprouts before applying (if so, why?).
> 
> Good thread!


awesome, I was really hoping to hear that. I've done a few sst's now. Just like you I do the initial soak. My second soak has freeze dried coco water from navitas and maybe a drop of aloe(not sure why but it can't hurt) and maybe some fulvic. My first time I blended them up as soon as they had a small tail. This time I'm bubbling them in a jar with water. Water is nice and milkyish so I'm guessing its a solid brew. I plan on grinding up the sprouts and using them either in my Bokashi or mixing them into my soil recycle bag...I hear the physical seed particles can be fairly hot so I don't want them directly in my soil unless they've decomposed a little. I feel a 36hr act will have all the nutes necessary so any npk from the seeds can just be applied some where else.

something I do with my act's that I find definitely note worthy is: I take about equal portions of Wmc and some other compost. Mix 1 tbsp of earth syrup biodynamic microbe food,1/2 tsp kelp and 1 tbsp home made lacto bacilli serum. Mix it all up and let sit in a warm place overnight. It reallyyy gets the microbes going . Sometimes you'll see a bit of a web start to form. I just feel the end result brew has a much higher microbe count/diversity. I guess it's almost like youre activating everything. Really big deff. I'd deff try it out


Personally I won't be grinding up my seeds for direct plant application.unless fermenting.

which seeds have you had best results with? My line up consists of barley, alfalfa, and wheatgrass..
havn't actually herd off wheatgrass being used but It's so beneficial in so many ways I don't see how it cannot be useful. I will check the composition of them and post later


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## st0wandgrow (Feb 25, 2014)

I've only ever used barley, alfalfa, and chia seeds. The chia seeds were a bit of a pain in the nut-sack. They sprout, but turn in to a jellied mess almost like tapioca balls. I do believe the wheatgrass will be great. According to another grower who is very knowledgeable on the topic grass seeds are excellent to use.


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## Dr.J20 (Feb 25, 2014)

sub'd definitely want to hear thoughts on wheatgrass since i grow pallets of it and always have a ton of wheatberries on hand for that purpose!


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## mrwood (Feb 25, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> I'm curious as to what other people are doing with sst's. I have been doing a 12 hour soak, dumping that water, then aerating/soaking for an additional 36-48 hours..... Or until I get a 1/4+ inch sprout then just applying the water sans the sprouts. I'd like to hear what others are doing. Specifically soak/bubble duration, and if you're blending up the sprouts before applying (if so, why?).


I make the v2 barley SST, following the receipe below:



> Sprouted Seed Tea v2.0
> 
> Jon Stika of Brew Your Own Magazine describes malt as "barley that has been sprouted to the point where enzymes are produced that will convert its starchy interior to sugar." After the grain has been malted, the sugar is fermented by yeast to make beer.
> 
> ...


I do weigh our 56 g of seeds, but do not weight anymore after first or second soak. I have found over time that I get 84+ grams after two soaks.
I do puree the seeds/sprouts, because the receipe says so and it seems to make sense to use the whole mix. Takes me ~48 hours start to finish.


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## hyroot (Feb 25, 2014)

^^^^^^^^ i do the same . I use mung beans. Unhulled barley seeds are hard to find in my area. I made an sst tutorail on you tube a while ago.. keep in mind i was super tired at each take . So my vocabulary is kind of off.


[video=youtube_share;gBY0ou2cyJQ]http://youtu.be/gBY0ou2cyJQ[/video]


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## st0wandgrow (Feb 25, 2014)

Groovy. So just to be clear, you guys aren't aerating the water whilst soaking the seeds?

Hy, I'm gonna check out the video tmrw. I'm on my phone and it's taking forever to load


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## hyroot (Feb 25, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Groovy. So just to be clear, you guys aren't aerating the water whilst soaking the seeds?
> 
> Hy, I'm gonna check out the video tmrw. I'm on my phone and it's taking forever to load


its too much of a pain in the ass. I didn't see any difference in results.. I do aerate once I add pureed seeds / beans to water. Only for 20 min. it foams up tough, overflowing right away.


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## Tjingles (Feb 26, 2014)

Okay so here is a clip that I found with the breakdown composition of wheatgrass. It has almost the full B vitamin spectrum. Which to me means it will have stress releaving properties. Direct substitute to superthrive or any other B product.

Also vitamin E will help with drought resistance, vitamin C as well....probably a great high temp summer application. 

There are a lot of minerals and enzymes that I havn't checked into yet for garden application but so far it looks like I will need to be sprouting wheatgrass weekly



The composition of Wheatgrass Juice
Wheatgrass juice is a pure, natural source of a broad spectrum of essential nutrients.These include vitamins, minerals, chlorophyll, antioxidants, amino acids and enzymes.


In laboratory test one isolated more than 1000 elements found in wheatgrass, which leads to the conclusion that wheatgrass juice is a full nutrition-power source.


Wheatgrass juice is called "the world's most concentrated liquid food". The juice of wheatgrass contains such high doses of natural vitamin E (more than for example in spinach and lettuce) and consists for 21% of amino acids, the building blocks of high-quality protein.


The Japanese researcher Hagiwara Yoshide has examined two hundred plants for their levels of vitamins, minerals, proteins and enzymes and concluded that wheatgrass juice is one of the richest sources of these nutrients. It also contains the enzyme PD41, which would prove good service in repairing damaged genetic material by X-rays. Also, the enzyme superoxide dismutase (SOD) has been found in wheatgrass juice. This enzyme is found in all body cells. It is assumed that it has anti-inflammatory properties, may help slow down the aging process and may decrease the effects of radiation.


Which nutrients does wheatgrass juice contain?


Vitamins in wheatgrass juice


Beta-carotene, vitamin C and vitamin E are also important antioxidants.


Pro-vitamin A(beta-carotene) for growth, tissue repair, eyesight and immune system


Vitamin B1 (thiamine) for combustion of carbohydrates and functioning of heart, nerves and skeletal muscles.


Vitamin B2 (riboflavine) for production of energy and activating of vitamin B6.


Vitamin B3 (niacin) assists in the energy production, and promotes the action of the nervous system


Vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid) for the metabolism of proteins, carbohydrates and fats and production of hormones.


Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) for a healthy digestion, a strong immune system, the production of red blood cells and a proper functioning of the nervous system. 


Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) for a good resistance, strong bones, protect against free radicals and iron absorption.


Vitamin E (tocopherol) for resistance, production of red blood cells, protecting against free radicals and maintain healthy muscles and tissues.


Vitamin K for blood clotting and bone metabolism.





Minerals in wheatgrass juice


Magnesium, potassium and calcium give wheatgrass juice ist highly alkalizing (= alkalising) operation.


Calcium for strong teeth, bones and joints, blood clotting, muscle contraction and proper functioning of the nervous system.


Phosphorus for strong bones and teeth, the structure of DNA cells, a healthy metabolism and energy supply.


Iron for the transportation of oxygen to body cells.


Potassium for a healthy nervous system, regulating blood pressure, muscle contraction and energy metabolism.


Cobalt for the production of vitamin B12 and red blood cells.


Copper makes it possible that iron absorbs oxygen and is required for pigment formation in skin and hair.


Magnesium for strong bones, creation and proper functioning of muscle cells, metabolism and the transmission of nerve impulses.


Manganese for the production of bone tissue and the metabolism of carbohydrates, amino acids and cholesterol


Selenium neutralizes harmful free radicals and detoxifies heavy metals in the body..


Sulfur for the formation of collagen, the absorption of moisture in the intestines and regulate electrical activity in the brains.


And further it has also:


Natrium
Zink
Borium
Chroom
Jodium
Nikkel
Enzymes in wheatgrass juice
Cytochrome oxidase, catalase, and peroxidase are found in high concentrations in wheatgrass juice and are also found in human red and white blood cells.


cytochrome oxidase (role in cell respiration)
lipase (fat splitting)
protease (proteolysis)
amylase (starch splitting)
catalase (hydrogen-split)
peroxidase
transhydrogenase
superoxide-dismutase (SOD; 'anti-aging-enzyme')
Amino acids in wheatgrass juice


Wheatgrass juice contains the 8 essential amino acids (lysine, isoleucine, leucine, tryptophan, phenylalanine, threonine, valine and methionine) and 9 non-essential amino acids (alanine, arginine, aspartic acid, glutamic acid, glycine, histidine, proline, serine, tyrosine)


In addition, wheatgrass juice contains P4D1, a glycoprotein that stimulates the production and natural recovery of human germ cells and DNA.


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## Dr.J20 (Feb 26, 2014)

thanks for the vid. hyroot! I'm definitely doing this with wheatgrass--my way of sprouting is a bit more streamlined: mason jar, square piece of non-reactive screen. 1/3C wheatberries in mason jar, soaked 12hrs in aerated water. drain water, rinse wheat berries, screw on lid with screen instead of the solid cover, turn upside down to drain for another 12 hours. they should be sprouted at the end of that 12 hrs and can either be planted for wheatgrass, or, apparently blended and aerated for SST. That's what's up!
be easy homies,


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## Dr.J20 (Mar 3, 2014)

So i've been looking across the interwebs etc. to find out more information about seed enzyme teas and their applications in gardening and can really only find things on fora like RIU, specific to cannabis that is. is there another name for this kind of application of sprouted seed enzymes? Also, i'm going ahead with my wheatgrass experimentation, but, it seems as though barley is the preferred grain for sprouting; I know everyone says "well really any seed should work" and i know Hy uses mung beans, and i've heard of some folks using alfalfa seed, and corn, but why is it 9/10 barley?
anywho, just got my gals with a foliar and soil drench of aloe at 2tbsp juice/gal h20. hope they're praying but temps are going to be cold again this week.
any thoughts on any of this would be welcome!
be easy,


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## Dr.J20 (Mar 5, 2014)

So i read the post over in ROLS on the version 2 SST that Cann posted, the one from coot explaining the science behind all of this; I'm gathering that the method of sprouting is, indeed, important since the specific goal of maximizing enzyme production is different than sprouting to grow grasses. 
Am I correct in this deduction? 
And, if so, my questions about the specificities of grain/seed choice expand to ask whether the same process used for barley would be used for all seed/grain choices, because, as I've posted earlier, I can sprout wheatgrass with just repeated rinsings after an initial 12 hour soak; indeed, this is how i do all of my sprouts for my own consumption or to grow grass from. I'd imagine everyone saying the choice is largely non-specific means enzyme maximization can be achieved with the SST V.2.0 recipe best, regardless of grain/seed selection. So i'll sprout my alfalfa the way St0w was saying (soak, rinse, bubble in water for 48hrs/until sprout is as long as seed) because it's already going, and then switch on over to version 2.0;
sound good to the sst'ers?


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## st0wandgrow (Mar 5, 2014)

Dr.J20 said:


> So i read the post over in ROLS on the version 2 SST that Cann posted, the one from coot explaining the science behind all of this; I'm gathering that the method of sprouting is, indeed, important since the specific goal of maximizing enzyme production is different than sprouting to grow grasses.
> Am I correct in this deduction?
> And, if so, my questions about the specificities of grain/seed choice expand to ask whether the same process used for barley would be used for all seed/grain choices, because, as I've posted earlier, I can sprout wheatgrass with just repeated rinsings after an initial 12 hour soak; indeed, this is how i do all of my sprouts for my own consumption or to grow grass from. I'd imagine everyone saying the choice is largely non-specific means enzyme maximization can be achieved with the SST V.2.0 recipe best, regardless of grain/seed selection. So i'll sprout my alfalfa the way St0w was saying (soak, rinse, bubble in water for 48hrs/until sprout is as long as seed) because it's already going, and then switch on over to version 2.0;
> sound good to the sst'ers?


I'm gonna try my hand at the V.2.0 as well. I wish there was a way to measure enzyme production because the V.2.0 seems more time consuming/complicated. Time to step back outside my comfort zone again I guess... or maybe I'll just look for your updates over the next few days and see if you think that the juice was worth the squeeze.


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## mrwood (Mar 5, 2014)

v2 is not hard, but does take me ~48 hours. weigh, soak, rest, soak, rest/grow, puree.


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## Dr.J20 (Mar 5, 2014)

i'm going to be running tests on wheatgrass alongside barley both sprouting V.1 and V.2 but i'll be doing them on garden veggies--i'll probably just keep track of it and then throw a thread in the gardening section detailing it. I will also be testing russian kvas/kwas tea on my raised bed. I will probably do my kerala x skunk 1 with the wheatgrass sprouted using the V.2 method and compare it to the power flower done with the barley and see if there's any difference. my internodal spacing is already pretty tight (i'm thinking because of the zoomed florasuns i'm using as side lighting) so I'm kind of reluctant to use the alfalfa tea i've got going in a v.1 brew. Anywho, I will be doing 3 hawaiian skunk x haze next go around so i can do a tiny test with wheatgrass, barley, and none all on the same genetics to get a little better read on things. Anywho, if my hot peppers and tomatoes end up liking these things, then i'll certainly give a try on the meds. 

well, that's a long and indirect, roundabout way of saying my updates probably won't be happening until well into May! but I'll certainly document it! 
be easy,


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## hyroot (Mar 5, 2014)

I've been doing v2 for a long time. My video tutorial is for v2. Sst. I much prefer it. I reposted headtreeps and canns posts for directions on v2 sst in my thread, page 1


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## Dr.J20 (Apr 16, 2014)

Any developments in SST? i've been adding kvass to my compost and my hot pepper beds and they are rich and delicious smelling. I love the simplicity of the kvass FPE process too; just make up some kvass, wait 3 days, add your plant to be fermented (i'm using some kelp meal and banana peel in the two i've got going today) for another 7 days, then use in dilution of around 1:8. Works pretty well for me!
As for SSTs, I've had several timing issues where I've planned out the 48 hours and the seeds sprout faster than I expected, or plants need water sooner than seeds have sprouted etc. 

So, what about this tip I got: Start up seeds on a set day every week. as soon as seeds start sprouting, put them in the fridge to slow down their sprouting. you can pull some out the night before your plants will need watering to make sure they are sprouted enough for blending, bubbling, and using. The only problem I can see with this is that it just prolongs the length of time you are sprouting. so if the general trend is that the plant drinks more with age, you will need waterings closer together as harvest approaches. prolonging the sprout time seems more advantageous in the vegetative stages. in flowering, wouldn't you want to just start up seeds every time you water so that if your plants need another drink on day 3, you'll actually have some seeds ready to blend? seems to me the solution is to make up your mind to water with them every time and if turns out you don't want to that week, you just throw 'em to the worms/garden/compost, no?

for seeds sprouting earlier than expected, is it such a big deal to use them with sprout tails longer than the 1" recommendation?


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## st0wandgrow (Apr 16, 2014)

Dr.J20 said:


> Any developments in SST? i've been adding kvass to my compost and my hot pepper beds and they are rich and delicious smelling. I love the simplicity of the kvass FPE process too; just make up some kvass, wait 3 days, add your plant to be fermented (i'm using some kelp meal and banana peel in the two i've got going today) for another 7 days, then use in dilution of around 1:8. Works pretty well for me!
> As for SSTs, I've had several timing issues where I've planned out the 48 hours and the seeds sprout faster than I expected, or plants need water sooner than seeds have sprouted etc.
> 
> So, what about this tip I got: Start up seeds on a set day every week. as soon as seeds start sprouting, put them in the fridge to slow down their sprouting. you can pull some out the night before your plants will need watering to make sure they are sprouted enough for blending, bubbling, and using. The only problem I can see with this is that it just prolongs the length of time you are sprouting. so if the general trend is that the plant drinks more with age, you will need waterings closer together as harvest approaches. prolonging the sprout time seems more advantageous in the vegetative stages. in flowering, wouldn't you want to just start up seeds every time you water so that if your plants need another drink on day 3, you'll actually have some seeds ready to blend? seems to me the solution is to make up your mind to water with them every time and if turns out you don't want to that week, you just throw 'em to the worms/garden/compost, no?
> ...



Or, you could just make the SST's and put them in ice cube trays in the freezer, then thaw and use as needed.


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## DANKSWAG (Apr 17, 2014)

Hey guys, 

Any suggestions on storing and keep nettle leaves for future use....

I have a ton of them everywhere I look and I want to harvest as much as I can and keep them.

Best ways to preserve store nettle leaf? 
Can it be effective as a bio stimulate in tea for plants once preserve or store.

I may enough where I can market excess for resell to local organic restaurants but they are bought in season while fresh to cook with.

Ideas, thoughts suggestions? 







DankSwag


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## Dr.J20 (Apr 17, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> Or, you could just make the SST's and put them in ice cube trays in the freezer, then thaw and use as needed.


See this is what I originally posed as a solution, since I saw in the AACT thread that you said people can, and have been doing this successfully. And it makes good intuitive sense because all kinds of enzymes are stored this way (frozen/low temps) throughout the science and medical fields. Here's my trouble though: do you just let it thaw out in the sunlight? seems like uv might be a bit of a problem there? so then I got to thinking, if i only need a day or two buffer, couldn't i just refrigerate the slurry paste for a day or so before use? any problems there? 
The tip I got was in reference to this suggestion and it was basically: "i wouldn't use anything other than fresh made, but what I do is slow down the sprouting rate so i can just grab some barley sprouts when i need to and blend them up on the spot." Potentially good advice on its face, but when you start to think about it, you're just adding another layer of the guessing game to your SST. 

If you want maximal enzyme production, you wait until the sprout is 1"-1.5" before the pureé, no? so just placing them in the refridgerator gets you a whole bunch of sprouts sprouting at roughly the same, now slower, rate. if you knew you weren't going to need them for 3 days, why wouldn't you just hold off on starting the process? the point is not knowing whether it will be 2-4 days between waterings, which is generally only a problem until you've found your rhythm with the genetics. and, its generally only a problem in veg and early flower, since you're probably not going to go 5+ days inside, in containers, unless their 7gal+ containers. add in air-pruning pots and that drops the number of days even further so that the SSTs can fall right in line with the usual routine of AACTs, and nutrient teas, with their 24-48hr bubbling periods. if you start a tea, and start sprouting barley at the same time, the barley should be ready to blend and add to your tea right when your tea is done, all of which, if you're learning your plants, happens propitiously as your plants need some more water. 

long and short of all this, i'm going back to just having 3 mason jars of frozen SST paste in the fridge, taking out in the am of a watering day, placing out of direct sunlight, and letting it thaw naturally. sound good? sounds good to me!
gonna go dump some lactobacilli on my compost now. be easy!
 ::


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## st0wandgrow (Apr 17, 2014)

A member of another forum freezes the SST in a concentrated form in the ice cube trays, then adds them to his water bucket. He warms the water a bit prior to adding the cubes which obviously melts them within minutes.


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## Dr.J20 (Apr 17, 2014)

st0wandgrow said:


> A member of another forum freezes the SST in a concentrated form in the ice cube trays, then adds them to his water bucket. He warms the water a bit prior to adding the cubes which obviously melts them within minutes.


yep just thought of this too. i usually (around this time of year) am brewing my teas with a thermostatic aquarium heater that keeps the water between 68 and 72*; in that environment, a couple sst ice cubes around hour 40 (for a 42hr brew) should be ready to go by tea time. thanks stow!
be easy,


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## DANKSWAG (Apr 17, 2014)

Hey StownGrow,

Any suggestions for how I can preserve all this fresh cut Stinging Nettle I have?

DankSwag


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## RedCarpetMatches (Apr 17, 2014)

I use treated tap to soak barley, as it's an easy/cheap resource. Usually takes me a day to get a sprout. I wait til the shortest sprouts are roughly the length of the seed (some are around an inch) then purée. I recently started aerating overnight, quickly, or for a day...feed with a nute tea, and then follow with the SST. No runoff. I swear it's plant steroids.


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## st0wandgrow (Apr 17, 2014)

DANKSWAG said:


> Hey StownGrow,
> 
> Any suggestions for how I can preserve all this fresh cut Stinging Nettle I have?
> 
> DankSwag


That depends what you mean by preserve. Freezing them in those vacuum freezer bags would certainly preserve the nutrient value but would alter the cellular structure and make them a quite flaccid upon thawing.

What are you looking to use them for down the line?


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## DANKSWAG (Apr 18, 2014)

Stowngrow,

I certainly will not be eating them as if they were fresh in a salad or some type of meal. 

If I want to sell product to organic restaurant I am sure I would have to rinse nettles and supply day for them to cook with, haven't cleaned any and put in fridge for any period of time to observe overall condition of nettle leaves how long they can stay in a state to be used in fresh cooking.

Now I know I can dried and crush and save nettle leaves for tea use.

Now concerning attempting to harvest large qualities and store (preserve) them for use through out the year as a soil amendment, would it be better to use dried nettle verse nettle lightly steamed at harvest and then frozen for later use? 

Also curious say in fall when nettle is woody and all leaves have been harvested, would collecting the stalks (I know you can make a tincture from roots) and just letting them dry and then using them whenever by soaking them in water would there still be enough beneficial biology activators there to water soil with?

One thing I do recall ineffective as foliage spray for it works specifically with the soil web. So the neat thing having a lot even after I use some as green manure in my compost pile I want to store and preserve as much as possible to use for personal health and soil health throughout the year. That is the goal since I can't harvest and use all year round, well at least not till I build a green house the winter here they will not survive. 

I also enjoyed what this herbalist shared on them. http://www.traditionalherbalist.com/Articles/nettle.html
DankSwag


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## Tjingles (Apr 25, 2014)

I use dried nettle along with dried horsetail among other things in every water. Pure organic no till soil. I'm at about day 30 and have to tie my plant up. By far the most productive grow ever. 

I also feel that with every other aspect in life diversity is the most important. So I've been doing alfalfa, barley, wheatgrass, and diastatic malt. In rotation. I also have navitas powdered wheatgrass which I add 1tsp every other water. I also have a few diff FPE's that I add in now n then also.


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## Dr.J20 (Apr 25, 2014)

Tjingles, sounds pretty sweet. so you're using the alfalfa throughout flowering? no problems from the triacontanol?


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## Tjingles (Apr 25, 2014)

Not a single one honestly. I also use a kale and alfalfa fpe at like 2-3tbs per 5 gal brew. Every other water or so. There about a month and I'm seeing tricombs start to form on some fan leaves. I also have some fruit based fpe's banana mango and papaya and another that's strawberry,tomato,gogi, acaie.they have been growing so well I still have a hard time believing it lol. 

I've been considering trying some organic rishi wild berry black tea to water with to alter the end flavor but I'm not sure how they'll respond to the small amount of caffeine in the black tea


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## testiclees (Sep 2, 2014)

I read a recent post where Coot advocated using malted barley rather than fresh sprouted seeds. It's made by combining ground malted barley ( or other malted grain) with water. It can be bubbled or not I went ahead and grabbed some "American" barley and followed Coots directions. After a soil drench it looked to me like 2 out of three plants surged in growth and one got down to flowering. I got that response only the first time I applied. The second dose didn't elicit much response but plants were under TSSM attack at the time. I plan to add a dose (1/4 oz per 4 gal) to a batch of AACT. Plants are well budded 6 weeks 12/12.

I can't say if the malted works as well as the fresh. I have no exp w fresh. 
Coot seems to present the malted method as if it were just as effective.

Anyone else tried out the malted grain technique


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## Pattahabi (Sep 2, 2014)

I'd be curious if anyone has any experience with both fresh seeds and the malt, is either better? Both the same?

Many thanks!
P-


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## hyroot (Sep 2, 2014)

Chronikool in the led section does or did both seed and flour. My smaller girls don't like the nettle in the tea and foliar. The larger ones loved it . weird


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## foreverflyhi (Sep 3, 2014)

Whats the fresh malt recipe agiaan? Cant seem to find it.. 

From experience, i dont aereate sst unless im adding kelp/alfalfa in which case ill brew 24hrs prior to adding sst. 
Ive done both aerate sst and just straight blend then water, and noticed no diffrence.


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## testiclees (Sep 3, 2014)

i think you can find the recipe at buildasoil


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## Pattahabi (Sep 3, 2014)

Seems to me the fresh sprouted seeds would be better then the malted barely powder. I tried the powder once, didn't see much if any results. I tried the SST recipe and the girls went crazy. So I've stuck with SST and never looked back. It could very well have been a user error when I tried the malted barely, so I'm wondering what other peoples' experience with this is?

P-


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## Chronikool (Sep 3, 2014)

It was just a laziness thing.... '*Diastatic Malt Powder' *

This shit does have a limited shelf life.....straight into the compost bins and worm bins for the little bit that is left...i just ordered some more....$7 delivered for 250grams >>>>> i use it at 5-15 grams per gallon.... (depending on if i can find the right measuring spoon.... ) *soil drench only*...

A few links to @Cann and @headtreep Diastatic Malt Powder posts......

https://www.rollitup.org/t/recycled-organic-living-soil-rols-and-no-till-thread.636057/page-31#post-9113853

https://www.rollitup.org/t/recycled-organic-living-soil-rols-and-no-till-thread.636057/page-37#post-9147332

https://www.rollitup.org/t/recycled-organic-living-soil-rols-and-no-till-thread.636057/page-44#post-9196487

https://www.rollitup.org/t/recycled-organic-living-soil-rols-and-no-till-thread.636057/page-52#post-9288486

More on page 54...


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## foreverflyhi (Sep 3, 2014)

Thanks!!


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## Chronikool (Sep 3, 2014)

foreverflyhi said:


> Thanks!!


Fuck i was bored wasnt i.....


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## Chronikool (Sep 4, 2014)

Organic Diastatic Malt powder .......Milled yesterday....got to me today....not sure if freshness affects anything...probably..


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## hyroot (Sep 5, 2014)

I dont know. Its pretty much the 2nd to last step of sst. the flour is made from pureed sprouted barley seed. The enzymes should be present.


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## greasemonkeymann (Sep 10, 2014)

thank you gentlemen, I've learned some good stuff here, between the vermicomposting and now SSTs I've learned a good amount here recently.


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## anzohaze (Oct 23, 2014)

Bump just cause its a gpod thread


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## anzohaze (Oct 30, 2014)

@hyroot how often do you apply a sst


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## hyroot (Oct 30, 2014)

anzohaze said:


> @hyroot how often do you apply a sst


once a week.


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## anzohaze (Oct 30, 2014)

hyroot said:


> once a week.


Thanks buddy


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## DonBrennon (Mar 29, 2015)

Anybody got experience with using a fermented sst? I've seen it claimed it supercharges your sst so you can keep it for long periods and use smaller diluted amounts as it's supposed to be concentrated?


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## Chester da Horse (Mar 29, 2015)

Hi to all who have contributed to this excellent thread (and thanks for resurrecting it, DonBrennon)

I have a total SST noob question: I have a packet of mixed green manure seeds - could anyone comment on whether this would be suitable for an SST? It contains fenugreek, oats, sub clover, wooly pod vetch, french white millet, buckwheat and broccoli rapa. I also have straight alfalfa seeds.

My first foray into organics I just made my first AACT (+ kelp and fish emulsion) which bubbled up beautifully and stank like dank dirty earth. So hope I can get this SST concept right first time round too.

TIA


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## Midwest Weedist (Mar 30, 2015)

Anyone ever use clover seeds for an sst and end up with really murky water even after the initial rinse? I do a very basic sst; I just soak for 6 - 10 hours, rinse, bubble in a mason jar until the sprouts are longer than the seeds, then puree.


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## greasemonkeymann (Mar 30, 2015)

Chester da Horse said:


> Hi to all who have contributed to this excellent thread (and thanks for resurrecting it, DonBrennon)
> 
> I have a total SST noob question: I have a packet of mixed green manure seeds - could anyone comment on whether this would be suitable for an SST? It contains fenugreek, oats, sub clover, wooly pod vetch, french white millet, buckwheat and broccoli rapa. I also have straight alfalfa seeds.
> 
> ...


try to shoot for the hydrosolate instead of the emulsion, it's better. No metals.
Any of those seeds will be fine. Alfalfa seeds is what i'd use.


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## Chester da Horse (Apr 1, 2015)

IT WORKS!!! so so frothy mmmmmm

and I dumped some fulvic acid (0.4% strength x 1mL/L) in for the final soak - i love the sweet sweet smell


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## greasemonkeymann (Apr 2, 2015)

DonBrennon said:


> Anybody got experience with using a fermented sst? I've seen it claimed it supercharges your sst so you can keep it for long periods and use smaller diluted amounts as it's supposed to be concentrated?


NO!!!!!!!!, don't ferment it, it turns into an herbicide, (acetic acid) which equals DEATH for your ladies.
this is from another site, that an unfortunate grower learned the hard way.

*So there came a point in time a few months back I was busy with other things and I had a gallon of barley tea ready to go. Still had the barley in the water, i.e. it hadn't been strained and drained. I had also added kelp meal for its enzymes as well as aloe vera and coconut water for their unique enzymes, PGRs, etc. I was really going to hit it out of the park!
I stuck a cheap (like $8.00) pump with a $.89 airstone and set it aside for a few days. When I was ready to hit the plants with this 'super-duper tea' I smelled it and I couldn't detect any fermentation at all. Nothing.
What I hadn't factored into the deal was Acetic acid. This acid is a herbicide sold as 'horticultural vinegar' and it does what is claimed - it kills leaves and branches. You're not supposed to saturate the soil with it. In effect that is what I did through my ignorance - dumped Acetic acid on the roots. 
That plant was dead within 36 hours - finis, ovah, gone and all the 'flushing' in the world wasn't going to fix this problem. Lesson learned.*


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## Midwest Weedist (Apr 2, 2015)

greasemonkeymann said:


> NO!!!!!!!!, don't ferment it, it turns into an herbicide, (acetic acid) which equals DEATH for your ladies.
> this is from another site, that an unfortunate grower learned the hard way.
> 
> *So there came a point in time a few months back I was busy with other things and I had a gallon of barley tea ready to go. Still had the barley in the water, i.e. it hadn't been strained and drained. I had also added kelp meal for its enzymes as well as aloe vera and coconut water for their unique enzymes, PGRs, etc. I was really going to hit it out of the park!
> ...


I can't imagine watching a plant die like that, talk about heart break.


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## greasemonkeymann (Apr 2, 2015)

Midwest Weedist said:


> I can't imagine watching a plant die like that, talk about heart break.


I had to do that once, back in 2002 or 2003 maybe...
bag of roots.
Transplanted and it almost instantly wilted, like hasn't been watered in a week wilted...
flushed with water, transplanted again, the plant was dead within 12 hrs. I couldn't have killed that plant with roundup quicker.
still don't know what happened, I totally speculate that the roots soil was exposed to an herbicide.
cannabis is in fact an herb...
I was PISSED, it was for an outdoor plant that had vegged for three months and was roughly 4 feet wide by four feet high, and was SCROGed to get me about 15-18 colas...
Probably cost me 2-3 lbs at least. And it was a beaut too.
Last bag of roots I ever bought, went from that to Vermifire, which is some good shit by the way.


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## Pattahabi (Apr 2, 2015)

greasemonkeymann said:


> NO!!!!!!!!, don't ferment it, it turns into an herbicide, (acetic acid) which equals DEATH for your ladies.
> this is from another site, that an unfortunate grower learned the hard way.
> 
> *So there came a point in time a few months back I was busy with other things and I had a gallon of barley tea ready to go. Still had the barley in the water, i.e. it hadn't been strained and drained. I had also added kelp meal for its enzymes as well as aloe vera and coconut water for their unique enzymes, PGRs, etc. I was really going to hit it out of the park!
> ...


Gil carandang promotes fermenting them. I have not tried it, but I can't imagine fermentation being a good thing for enzymes and plant growth hormones.

http://theunconventionalfarmer.com/sprouted-seed-tea/

P-


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## greasemonkeymann (Apr 2, 2015)

Pattahabi said:


> Gil carandang promotes fermenting them. I have not tried it, but I can't imagine fermentation being a good thing for enzymes and plant growth hormones.
> 
> http://theunconventionalfarmer.com/sprouted-seed-tea/
> 
> P-


really?
hmmm, well, seems like playing with fire to me... sorta risky


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## Pattahabi (Apr 2, 2015)

greasemonkeymann said:


> really?
> hmmm, well, seems like playing with fire to me... sorta risky


AFAIK, this is something new from Gil. I don't remember seeing that on the site before. I'm not sure what the benefits of fermenting SST's would be?

P-


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## Abiqua (Apr 18, 2015)

Pattahabi said:


> AFAIK, this is something new from Gil. I don't remember seeing that on the site before. I'm not sure what the benefits of fermenting SST's would be?
> 
> P-


I tend to think that a fermentation state [homolactic] is just as biologically "alive" as an aerated SST, but the differences in organisms and the ability to consume less energy in fermentation are two points of emphasis....

Looking thru the scientific literature most identification of anearobic or faculative organisms is done in the realm of: silage production, food fermentation and bio reactor slurries...Even then I am having trouble finding literature where they are strictly concentrating on identifying particular microlife other than the "standard" in cases of food and fuel production, where one organsim is often identified as the catalyst....and therefore most of the concentration of study in most cases....

In fermenation, the caloric values for energy conversion are about 1/4 of what aerated breakdown needs...this in theory especially with homolactic fermentation, where most of the mass is left, could lead to more enzyme production as a increased food source for faculative yeasts, other fungi, actinomycetes and even anaerobic bacteria too...Just one theory, somewhat speculative, since it isn't entirely data driven....more just theoretical analysis of enzyme reactions...

What do you find particularly troubling about the ferment process and SST's?
Low pH, low DO?

Fermentation and Aeration of these "plant materials" also I think tend to be heavily influenced by their own epiphytic communities and this can vary significantly even with SST's I would imagine! Not said enough...something gleaned from silage studies...


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## Pattahabi (Apr 18, 2015)

Abiqua said:


> I tend to think that a fermentation state [homolactic] is just as biologically "alive" as an aerated SST, but the differences in organisms and the ability to consume less energy in fermentation are two points of emphasis....
> 
> Looking thru the scientific literature most identification of anearobic or faculative organisms is done in the realm of: silage production, food fermentation and bio reactor slurries...Even then I am having trouble finding literature where they are strictly concentrating on identifying particular microlife other than the "standard" in cases of food and fuel production, where one organsim is often identified as the catalyst....and therefore most of the concentration of study in most cases....
> 
> ...


My concern is what does it take to denature an enzyme? Could the low pH or the alcohol (organic solvent) denature the enzymes? Would we be losing some of the plant growth hormones and regulators in the fermentation process? I'd love to know your thoughts. This is above my paygrade, and I haven't had a lot of time to dig.

Many thanks!

P-


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## Abiqua (Apr 19, 2015)

Pattahabi said:


> My concern is what does it take to denature an enzyme? Could the low pH or the alcohol (organic solvent) denature the enzymes? Would we be losing some of the plant growth hormones and regulators in the fermentation process? I'd love to know your thoughts. This is above my paygrade, and I haven't had a lot of time to dig.
> 
> Many thanks!
> 
> P-


Thanks! much to work with....all valid concerns too...as far as denaturing....Two things here...length of ferment and the existence of these guys and gals: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_dehydrogenase...

Denaturing is a kind of an ambiguous term, it does denote the change of a protein but sometimes does not result in a new formation....ok ...

so alcoholic production [methanogenesis] is usually started by anaerobes that really like NO oxygen..so yes after 6 weeks [the long estimate of Cardarrangs FSST] Co2 and Methane buildup is certainly a possibility and then alcoholic fermentation might begin under such conditions but....that needs to be monitored by an ORP meter....in an IDEAL IDEAL situation....anecdotal research is fine, but takes too damn long 


It might almost be better to sprout your seeds for a few days as suggested and then pack them into an airtight vessel without any liquid other than whatever will be in the plant weight...._Sans, the extra carbohydrates.... the endosperm is loaded with polysaccharides for food and in certain types of fermentation these can be dissociated into monosaccharides thru reduction and not necessarily thru enzyme or anaerobe breakdown, saving food AND more importantly Energy, for munching on the mono-sugars later......_

Then after 10,20,25,50,100,125? days...take out and then slurry and apply....but then it presents the problem of: "Does Lactic acid and other weak organic acids, denature enzymes or protein structures in a similar fashion to ketones [alc. acids] ?"
This is more like silage which is proven method for increasing nutrition in animal feed thru anaerobic means....


I am really interested in comparing and contrasting and learning how to measure enzyme activity/denaturing and have taken a note...

I am trying to work on an automated ORP setup, then I would like to dig around for enzyme specific activity...any suggestions....any info where data was kept? I have been going thru MM's aka T's site again recently for the contrasting of aerobic microlife he has found...no one I know has done the Anaerobic version 

Two hardcore PDF's if you or others are interested


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## MjMama (May 3, 2015)

From the research Ive done, the seeds begin releasing enzymes after about 11 hours of soak time. I like to do 8-10 hours of soak, dump the water, the cover with a wet paper towel to finish sprouting for another day or so. Then I grind it and add a dash of coconut water, fulvic, and kelp. Kelp contains co-enzymes that are beneficial to the process. 

Also PH and temps can make a huge different in enzyme producing. Warm but not boiling water and warm temps are best for sprouting. 1 study recorded a 10x increase in enzymes just by increasing the sprouting temps by a few degrees. The ideal PH range is between 4-6.5


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## mouse1818 (Jun 11, 2015)

st0wandgrow said:


> A SST and an ACT together are fine. SST's provide enzymes (proteins) which are not a living organism and not a food stock for microbes afaik. The act will inoculate your soil with microbes and fungi (dependent on food stock and length of brew).
> 
> I'm curious as to what other people are doing with sst's. I have been doing a 12 hour soak, dumping that water, then aerating/soaking for an additional 36-48 hours..... Or until I get a 1/4+ inch sprout then just applying the water sans the sprouts. I'd like to hear what others are doing. Specifically soak/bubble duration, and if you're blending up the sprouts before applying (if so, why?).
> 
> Good thread!


http://theunconventionalfarmer.com/sprouted-seed-tea/


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## Chester da Horse (Jun 11, 2015)

$0.02 from a thoroughly science minded noob -

my system is as follows (small batches, its only a personal grow)

_You need:_
3g alfalfa seeds
water
0.2-0.5mLx50% hydrogen peroxide
small airstone and air pump
fulvic acid
liquid seaweed extract
blender

_Method:_
1st soak: add hydrogen peroxide to fresh water, soak (with or without bubbles) for 6-8hrs or until the seeds have more than doubled in weight. dark, 16-18C environment.
strain and rest on damp paper towel until sprouts are out the length of the seed (1mm or so) ~8-10hrs on a good batch.
Dump water, 
Rinse thoroughly,
2nd soak: 1L fresh water + 1mL fulvic acid (0.5% i think) with bubbles until nice long tap roots and 99% germination
Add a few drops of liquid seaweed extract

_Usage:_
Use half the liquid strained and straight up or diluted 50:50 onto young seedlings/clones
Blend the remainder (or save a few sprouts for planting as a green manure first) and mash the remains through a metal mesh tea strainer to extract as much of the enzymes as possible, dump the solids back into the liquid after mashing.
dilute back up to 1L and bubble for another 15-20min.
Shit gets real frothy
Strain again and dilute 50:50 and distribute

This gets me 3L of dilute SST from 3g/1L initial brew.

I tried brewing the SST from the second stage onwards using an AACT solution but didn't feel it made any difference.


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## mouse1818 (Jun 11, 2015)

Chester da Horse said:


> $0.02 from a thoroughly science minded noob -
> 
> my system is as follows (small batches, its only a personal grow)
> 
> ...


I like that quote in your signature its so true....


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## Chester da Horse (Jun 11, 2015)

feel free to copy it, i would have a disclaimer like yours, but my ego is too big


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## smink13 (Sep 9, 2015)

Hey guys, I'm at my grow and working diligently so I couldn't read the whole thread so forgive me if this was answered.

I don't know much about sst. I bought some barley and popcorn, all organic( a bitch to find in my area btw)

I measured out a cup and added enough water plus about an inch on top, to cover the seeds. They are in just simple Rubbermaid kitchen containers.

Well after a couple days the barley expanded and popped the lid off and all I could smell was a putrid anaerobic smell and it accumulated a greyish, jelly like film on top. 

Was it the lid being on that caused this or what? I saw videos where guys just do what I did in a mason jar and out the lid on and roughly a week later, sprouts. 

What gives? Thanks in advance!


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## hyroot (Sep 9, 2015)

smink13 said:


> Hey guys, I'm at my grow and working diligently so I couldn't read the whole thread so forgive me if this was answered.
> 
> I don't know much about sst. I bought some barley and popcorn, all organic( a bitch to find in my area btw)
> 
> ...



Straight up here's what you do

No lid

1/4 cup or 2 oz of seeds per 5 gal tea

1. Soak for 8-10 hours. The amount of water Doesn't matter. I use twice the water there is of seeds.

2. Then strain water and rinse seeds. That initial water becomes a growth inhibitor after soaking.

3. Rest seeds on a wet cloth in a cool Dark place for 8- 10 hours.


Repeat steps as many times as necessary til seeds sprouts are the length of the seed. Then Puree with a little water in the blender or food processor. ( I use a bullet blender ).

Then strain pureed mix over and into bucket of 5 gal of water or how ever much you made for.

Then aerate for a little. Do not aerate longer than 4 hours. It becomes acidic and an herbicide. I let it aerate usually for 20- 30 min.

Then water plants


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## smink13 (Sep 9, 2015)

Hell yeah, thanks hyroot! Exactly what I was looking for! 

Do your measurements of how much per 5 gal go for any type of seed?

What seeds do you guys use/recommend?


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## hyroot (Sep 9, 2015)

smink13 said:


> Hell yeah, thanks hyroot! Exactly what I was looking for!
> 
> Do your measurements of how much per 5 gal go for any type of seed?
> 
> What seeds do you guys use/recommend?



Yes same measurements. . I just use corn seed. I grab organic popcorn seed from sprouts market. 

Just about any seed or legume works.. I've also used barley seed, mung beans, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, alfalfa seeds. I like the results of the corn seed the most.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Jan 20, 2016)

hyroot said:


> Yes same measurements. . I just use corn seed. I grab organic popcorn seed from sprouts market.
> 
> Just about any seed or legume works.. I've also used barley seed, mung beans, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, alfalfa seeds. I like the results of the corn seed the most.


I am doing a comparison between pre-sprouted mung beans and sweet white corn and sugar pod peas. Corn and peas are together. I understand the prep and extraction for the seeds. But I'm unclear on the store bought mung beans.
Do I hydrate them first, then blend and bubble. Or just blend them while dehydrated and bubble.


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## DonBrennon (Jan 20, 2016)

Grandpa GreenJeans said:


> I am doing a comparison between pre-sprouted mung beans and sweet white corn and sugar pod peas. Corn and peas are together. I understand the prep and extraction for the seeds. But I'm unclear on the store bought mung beans.
> Do I hydrate them first, then blend and bubble. Or just blend them while dehydrated and bubble.


Nice idea, never thought about using pre sprouted beans. Can you not get the fresh bean sprouts? It'd take the guess work out of your re-hydration question I suppose.

I'm planning a comparison between fermented sst's against sst v2. I'm trying to reduce work load and I can't be arsed sprouting/blending up seeds every week or so. I've already made alfalfa, fenugreek and red clover fermented sst's and I will use the same seeds for the sst v2 at the same time. I also want to do barley and corn but I've had trouble getting em to sprout, I've assessed my sprouting method now though and will be doing it slightly different next time i try.

I'm hoping the fermented sst will be on a par with sst v2, then I'd only have to do sprouts once or twice per year, I'd also be using a lot less seed this way.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Jan 20, 2016)

DonBrennon said:


> Nice idea, never thought about using pre sprouted beans. Can you not get the fresh bean sprouts? It'd take the guess work out of your re-hydration question I suppose.
> 
> I saw a post where someone was asking about it. Since we're going for enzymes and growth hormones, both are not a living organism nor perishable , it's completely plausible to sprout, dry and then reactivate. But the uncertain is, what's the level of enzyme compared to using freshly germinated and is there any degradation of hormone.
> The pre sprouted mung beans are touted on the products label to have reached the highest level obtainable and preserved nutrition and maximum digestibility.
> ...


I'll be freezing mine. Like I said initially we're going after enzymes and hormones, and neither are a living organism, so they won't spoil. Length of storage is a factor but I have plans to brew with them and just toss a few frozen cubes onto the soils surface to melt and leak in. 

I'm not sure on the appropriate frequency of using it but every other week could be bad to start.

After the anerobic DM and DP of the chitosan, I'll be further working it using an aerobic process, and this is where I'll yeild the chitinase. Then into an ice cube tray. Same shit, toss 1 or 2 onto the soils surface or brew into a tea.


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## Kind Sir (Feb 8, 2016)

I have a rather small garden and have a decent size bag of barley seeds from buildasoil, how often can you add sst to a plant?


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## Joe Blows Trees (Feb 8, 2016)

Can you use cannabis seeds? I have a bunch of bagseeds I was thinking about trying since I heard it mentioned in a YouTube video on no till. I'm trying the popcorn tea now.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 9, 2016)

Kind Sir said:


> I have a rather small garden and have a decent size bag of barley seeds from buildasoil, how often can you add sst to a plant?


I've been giving 1 SST ice cube per plant (20 gal fabric) every other week. I just toss it on the soil surface and leave it to melt in. Seems to work but I don't really know for sure. My alien kush did set flower in 6 days from the flip, so it's very likely the hormones influenced that. She was always an early bloomer, but not that early. She skipped an entire week. But every one of my colas are around 12" long and heavily amd tightly stacked with nodes.


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## Grandpa GreenJeans (Feb 9, 2016)

Joe Blows Trees said:


> Can you use cannabis seeds? I have a bunch of bagseeds I was thinking about trying since I heard it mentioned in a YouTube video on no till. I'm trying the popcorn tea now.


No idea, but it's definitely plausible. Cannabis seed is very high in omega 3/6 and that makes for some killer fungi food.
But being a seed, I don't see why not? I'd rather puree some canna beans over anything else TBH. 
I smell a comparison test comming.......lol


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## vikinglace (Mar 26, 2016)

Hey all, been having a good read around various forums trying to find the answer to this quandary....

How long in flower should you keep using SST? does anyone know of negative effects of giving them late flower. I could imagine maybe abundance of leaf growth? I'm just coming up to week 6 of a 9-10 week strain so wondering if I should give another at this,point. Buds are slow to fatten at moment. All organically grown, ACTs, SST ETC. I think they had 3 or 4 sst since seed with 5 weeks veg. 


Also, am I being daft here, but I just soak my seeds for about 8 hrs, give them a rinse, drain then leave spread along the sides of a glass jar, placed horizontally. Give them a rinse every 8hrs or so drain and repeat. 24-36 hrs later I've got inch long sprouts. Easy. Why all the complicated methods bubbling etc?


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 27, 2016)

.


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## vikinglace (Mar 27, 2016)

GoRealUhGro said:


> .


Gotcha


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 27, 2016)

Lol I didn't meen to post that ...Im glad I did though..I plan on making the fuck outa sst this year..guess I could of just clicked on watch thread lol


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## Yodaweed (Mar 27, 2016)

hyroot said:


> Yes same measurements. . I just use corn seed. I grab organic popcorn seed from sprouts market.
> 
> Just about any seed or legume works.. I've also used barley seed, mung beans, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, alfalfa seeds. I like the results of the corn seed the most.


I have heard different types of seeds produce different enzymes.I did find some information on corn seed and why it's so good.

The Enzymes are a catalyst that assist the other nutrients and help super charge your soil.

Corn is known to be high in Cytokinins.

"Cytokinins will increase the girth and tinsel strength of the side branches and stronger branches will produce larger and heavier flowers." -Clackamas Coots

Instead of buying an expensive enzyme product in a bottle, you can make your own!

*Cytokinin Functions*
A list of some of the known physiological effects caused by cytokinins are listed below. The response will vary depending on the type of cytokinin and plant species (Davies, 1995; Mauseth, 1991; Raven, 1992; Salisbury and Ross, 1992).


Stimulates cell division. 

Stimulates morphogenesis (shoot initiation/bud formation) in tissue culture. 

Stimulates the growth of lateral buds-release of apical dominance. 

Stimulates leaf expansion resulting from cell enlargement. 

May enhance stomatal opening in some species. 

Promotes the conversion of etioplasts into chloroplasts via stimulation of chlorophyll synthesis.
source:http://buildasoil.com/products/corn-seed-organic-blue-corn-for-sprouted-seed-tea


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## Joe Blows Trees (Mar 28, 2016)

I use corn and alfalfa seeds. I'm going to use cannabis seeds again on the clones that should be rooted in a week or so.


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## vikinglace (Mar 28, 2016)

Anyone info re how late in flower to use and why ? Need to water the ladies shortly...!


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 28, 2016)

Wouldn't coconut water be the best source of cytokinin?


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## Joe Blows Trees (Mar 28, 2016)

Coconut water is a good supplement if you don't have corn or want to wait the week to sprout them.


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## testiclees (Mar 28, 2016)

vikinglace said:


> Anyone info re how late in flower to use and why ? Need to water the ladies shortly...!


I used to only use sst in veg. I noticed hyroot used it straight through flower and was pleased with results. I now give sst soaks whenever i feel it could be useful. I believe it has a postitive effect on flowering plants all the till the end. But i find it delays senescence to varying degrees depending on the variety of cannabis.

I use barley and wheatgrass seed.


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## vikinglace (Mar 28, 2016)

@



testiclees said:


> I used to only use sst in veg. I noticed hyroot used it straight through flower and was pleased with results. I now give sst soaks whenever i feel it could be useful. I believe it has a postitive effect on flowering plants all the till the end. But i find it delays senescence to varying degrees depending on the variety of cannabis.
> 
> I use barley and wheatgrass seed.


@testiclees thank you


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 28, 2016)

What's the earliest you would start to use them...and would it be a good idea to use a certain kinda seed first or just combine them from the get go


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 28, 2016)

I used mine in week 3. Will probably use again this Thursday (week 5).


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 28, 2016)

Week three of veg right


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 28, 2016)

Flower. For the potassium as well as cytokinins.


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 28, 2016)

I was thinking about using them after about 4 or five noes high..or once they get about a foot tall ...idk I'm kinda in the dark with em...I have never tried em but I def plan on it this year...


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 28, 2016)

Oh ok...I figured it would help the side branches well all of the from topping and training as well as a number if other things...it seems like they really do a number on plants ...I'm really excited to try them out....would it be ok to feed thsm like every other watering ...or like a feed water water feed


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## Joe Blows Trees (Mar 28, 2016)

The teas are a kick starter for the soil or to deliver the particular nutrients you or the plant prefers. I'm down to two main teas: one for veg after transplanting and one three to four weeks in bloom. I make regular compost tea once a month as a treat.


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## testiclees (Mar 28, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Flower. For the potassium as well as cytokinins.


SST's effectiveness is because of the enzymes it contains.


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 28, 2016)

testiclees said:


> SST's effectiveness is because of the enzymes it contains.


..Which are..?


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 28, 2016)

Coconut's the biggest seed ever, and the water is essentially plant sperm.


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 28, 2016)




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## testiclees (Mar 28, 2016)

Ya, coconut is not a seed utilized for sst.

As far as enzymes each seed has a slightly different enzyme profile but they share a core group of enzymes that intensely interact in the rhizosphere to create luxury availability of growth producing compounds. This is the basic mechanism of SST. Gardeners use sst for the enzyme action.

Bro im quite familiar w coots directions for sst. Sst is used for enzymes.


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 28, 2016)

I just showed you that it is used in SST.


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 28, 2016)

Once you chop up the seeds in a blender what do u do with the seed mash ...lol Iso what else to call it...is it a good idea to add it to the pile?


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 28, 2016)




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## testiclees (Mar 28, 2016)

GoRealUhGro said:


> Once you chop up the seeds in a blender what do u do with the seed mash ...lol Iso what else to call it...is it a good idea to add it to the pile?


You can top dress it or feed it to your worms. I used to scatter it over the surface of the smart pots it disappears pretty quick. Lately i feed it to my worms.

@Olive Drab Green. Sst isnt made with coconuts.


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 28, 2016)

testiclees said:


> You can top dress it or feed it to your worms. I used to scatter it over the surface of the smart pots it disappears pretty quick. Lately i feed it to my worms.
> 
> @Olive Drab Green. Sst isnt made with coconuts.


If you listen to him on that, you're doing yourself a disservice. Promise. ;D


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## testiclees (Mar 28, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> Coconut's the biggest seed ever, and the water is essentially plant sperm.


Coconut water is not remotely anything like "plant sperm". No.


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 28, 2016)

testiclees said:


> Coconut water is not remotely anything like "plant sperm". No.


The coconut is fertilizer for the palm tree. Many growers here would agree with me.


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## testiclees (Mar 28, 2016)

Olive Drab Green said:


> The coconut is fertilizer for the palm tree. Many growers here would agree with me.


Anyone in agreement with you would be mistaken. You beliefs show a failure to grasp basic biology.

The coconut is in no way fertilizer for the palm tree. You are incoherent.


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 28, 2016)

http://buildasoil.com/blogs/news/12693385-cytokinin-a-plant-hormone-coconut-water-and-corn-sst


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 28, 2016)

I'm telling you that you can use the stuff as a growth hormone and to increase enzyme induction. The other shit about the coconuts actually helping to fertilize soil around coconut palms, I just read somewhere, but coconut water is definitely used by a lot of people in place of or in conjunction with SST. The milk and water are the endosperm, that is 100% true as well.


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## testiclees (Mar 28, 2016)

Nothing you paste changes the fact that a coconut is not a fertilizer. And that sst is not used for K and hormones. Also coconuts are not used to make sst. You were mistaken in your initial claim and now youre making things worse.


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 28, 2016)




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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 28, 2016)

So you're flat out misguided and wrong.


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## testiclees (Mar 29, 2016)

Coconut water is not sperm. Why pose as an expert when youve no clue?

Your making an idiot of yourself by doubling down on your initial mistaken assertions. You are mistaken. SST's ARE NOT USED FOR K OR FOR HORMONES. THEY ARE NOT. YOU ARE MISTAKEN.

*Sst's are used for their enzymes. *


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## Olive Drab Green (Mar 29, 2016)

It is. Look it up. Are you fucking stupid or something? Coconut water is used in SSTs to increase induction of those enzymes.


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## testiclees (Mar 29, 2016)

@Olive Drab Green
"It is. Look it up. Are you fucking stupid or something? Coconut water is used in SSTs to increase induction of those enzymes."


Sst's may or may not have coconut water or many other possible additives. The fact is sst's are used for their enzyme content.

Your idiot tone only highlights your desperation and ignorance.

"Increase induction" lol gtfoh

Gardeners who make Sst and who are interested in the effects gained by the addition of coconut water might be interested in reading through this thread:
https://www.logicalgardener.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=310&hilit=Coconut

Basic SST requires only viable seeds, water and a strainer. Home depot paint strainers work great as do old t shirts to keep the seed moist and aerated.


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## Yodaweed (Mar 29, 2016)

testiclees said:


> @Olive Drab Green
> "It is. Look it up. Are you fucking stupid or something? Coconut water is used in SSTs to increase induction of those enzymes."
> 
> 
> ...


I use diluted coconut water and aloe vera water when I make my SST's, works great. And coconut water is the endosperm of a coconut.


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## testiclees (Mar 29, 2016)

Yodaweed said:


> I use diluted coconut water and aloe vera water when I make my SST's, works great. And coconut water is the endosperm of a coconut.


*The point I make is in reference to the claim that SST are used for K and cytokinins. They are not. Adding stuff to SST might make K and other PGRs available but SST does not require fulvic, seaweed, coconut or anything besides seeds and water. It's not a question or a debate. It is an indisputable fact.*


Ya im clear on the fact that sst can be made with coconut water but SST's are not coconut water. You might be interested in the coconut water piece in the logical gardener. Adding coconut water is not as straight forward as you might imagine.

Also endosperm is not sperm. Coconut water is not sperm.


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## Yodaweed (Mar 29, 2016)

testiclees said:


> *The point I make is in reference to the claim that SST are used for K and cytokinins. They are not. Adding stuff to SST might make K and other PGRs available but SST does not require fulvic, seaweed, coconut or anything besides seeds and water. It's not a question or a debate. It is an indisputable fact.*
> 
> 
> Ya im clear on the fact that sst can be made with coconut water but SST's are not coconut water. You might be interested in the coconut water piece in the logical gardener. Adding coconut water water is not as straight forward as you might imagine.
> ...


Yeah I have made SST's without adding coconut water or aloe vera, you don't need fulvic acid either, but I use it.
Here are the products I use

http://buildasoil.com/products/coconut-water-powder-raw-freeze-dried-organic?ref=yotpo_93

http://buildasoil.com/collections/supplements/products/1-ounce-of-200x-aloe-vera-powder

http://buildasoil.com/collections/supplements/products/bioag-ful-power


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## testiclees (Mar 29, 2016)

I used the dried coconut for a while but after i began using SST more frequently I make it with just the seeds and water. We have cheap aloe all over the place here so I use it often in my drenches and foliars just whizzing it with an immersion blender and straining it into a sprayer or plopping it into a bucket. Ful Power was one of the first bottled products I purchased when i started gardening.

The owner of Build a Soil is a frequent poster on The logical gardener and he is involved in the coconut water discussion in the link i posted.


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## Yodaweed (Mar 29, 2016)

testiclees said:


> I used the dried coconut for a while but after i began using SST more frequently I make it with just the seeds and water. We have cheap aloe all over the place here so I use it often in my drenches and foliars just whizzing it with an immersion blender and straining it into a sprayer or plopping it into a bucket. Ful Power was one of the first bottled products I purchased when i started gardening.
> 
> The owner of Build a Soil is a frequent poster on The logical gardener and he is involved in the coconut water discussion in the link i posted.


That was a great thread, I just finished reading through most of it, I might stop using coconut water now, mine hasn't been properly stored at -20C , its been at room temperatures and according to this data all the plant hormones and microbiological life are most likely dead or down to trace amounts. Thanks for that article.


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## cdgmoney250 (Apr 18, 2016)

I use "fresh" young coconuts and they work amazingly at delivering cytokinins. I have the strongest lateral branching I've ever had.
You can buy boxes of fresh coconuts at Asian markets for cheap. Just drill a hole, strain and drain.

I think that logical gardener link was referring to store bought coconut water, which is typically processed.


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## GoRealUhGro (Apr 18, 2016)

Can you use older coconuts?


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## cdgmoney250 (Apr 19, 2016)

GoRealUhGro said:


> Can you use older coconuts?


Older coconuts will have more 'meat' on the inside inherently yielding less 'water'. The 'water' [endosperm] will condense into the 'meat' as it matures. Money is better spent on young coconuts, although they are pretty cheap at Asain markets (about $1.32 each where I live). Young coconuts should yield approx. 10-16 oz of water.


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## GoRealUhGro (Apr 20, 2016)

Well..lol ..we have no Asian markets in my state...and I have never seen a young coconut either...only on vacation


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## MrKnotty (Aug 10, 2016)

Ok friends I have a quick question about the SSTs. I know that I discard the water after the first soak, it's full of growth inhibitors. Do I save the water after the second soak and then use that water when I blend the sprouted seeds? Or am I just blending up the sprouted seeds with fresh water and then making the tea. Thanks for all your help!


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## Oregon Grower (Sep 6, 2016)

MrKnotty said:


> Ok friends I have a quick question about the SSTs. I know that I discard the water after the first soak, it's full of growth inhibitors. Do I save the water after the second soak and then use that water when I blend the sprouted seeds? Or am I just blending up the sprouted seeds with fresh water and then making the tea. Thanks for all your help!


Either way works


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## elephantSea (Nov 25, 2016)

has anyone ever tried making an SST from cannabis seeds? Let's say you had about a gallon sized pot of shit weed seeds, would there be any benefit to using those in an SST?


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## Olive Drab Green (Nov 25, 2016)

elephantSea said:


> has anyone ever tried making an SST from cannabis seeds? Let's say you had about a gallon sized pot of shit weed seeds, would there be any benefit to using those in an SST?


Let us know. :0


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## Joe Blows Trees (Nov 25, 2016)

elephantSea said:


> has anyone ever tried making an SST from cannabis seeds? Let's say you had about a gallon sized pot of shit weed seeds, would there be any benefit to using those in an SST?


I've done it and the plants responded well.


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## westbmorekush (Dec 6, 2016)

hyroot said:


> Yes same measurements. . I just use corn seed. I grab organic popcorn seed from sprouts market.
> 
> Just about any seed or legume works.. I've also used barley seed, mung beans, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, alfalfa seeds. I like the results of the corn seed the most.


Can you use all these at once in your brew or do you have to feed separate?

If I don't fly imma die anyway


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## esh dov ets (Dec 15, 2016)

testiclees said:


> Nothing you paste changes the fact that a coconut is not a fertilizer. And that sst is not used for K and hormones. Also coconuts are not used to make sst. You were mistaken in your initial claim and now youre making things worse.


Coconut is a seed. Its milk contains cytokinins just like popcorn sprout tea. If we are splitting hairs it is not a sprouted tea but it does contain a simalar profile as the sst s


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## esh dov ets (Dec 15, 2016)

In case this thread sees life again i want to respond to the guy that asked why people bother to bubble the teas and not simplify the extraction of the catalysts. I can't find that post to respond directly so the answer is because that's what the recipie state and they do so so as to create microbiological life. And to extract more enzymes. It is not necessary to brew for over an hour or two if you are just extracting its to be thorough and and microbs


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## westbmorekush (Feb 6, 2017)

Cocoa nut water has done a world of difference to my grow. Will use as long as it shows me the money. 

If I don't fly imma die anyway


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## Kind Sir (Feb 9, 2017)

I would soak them like everyone else, and dump it. I didn't realize you're supposed to aerate them until they get like a quarter inch tail, and just use the water. I thought you're supposed to grind them up, and strain.. Shit


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## esh dov ets (Feb 9, 2017)

westbmorekush said:


> Cocoa nut water has done a world of difference to my grow. Will use as long as it shows me the money.
> 
> If I don't fly imma die anyway


i wish i had an economic source. Till then popcorn sprout tea or sea weed juice or me.


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## esh dov ets (Feb 9, 2017)

Kind Sir said:


> I would soak them like everyone else, and dump it. I didn't realize you're supposed to aerate them until they get like a quarter inch tail, and just use the water. I thought you're supposed to grind them up, and strain.. Shit


for my popcorn tea i blend/chop my sprouted seeds with a little water strain repeat till the water no longer comes out milky. i think i get a good extract this way. ...
do you mean to bubble the whole sprouts? i never realized that either.


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## westbmorekush (Feb 10, 2017)

esh dov ets said:


> i wish i had an economic source. Till then popcorn sprout tea or sea weed juice or me.


Try cocoa nut water from market, not the cocoa nut juice with acid or additives. Aerate with 1cup of cocoa water to 5gal. I then add my kelp, molasses, barley to aerate for 48 hours. Good foam action your ladies will dance too.

If I don't fly imma die anyway


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## Kind Sir (Feb 10, 2017)

I've had successful grows, but just curious how you do things? What ALL do you give your plants? 




westbmorekush said:


> Try cocoa nut water from market, not the cocoa nut juice with acid or additives. Aerate with 1cup of cocoa water to 5gal. I then add my kelp, molasses, barley to aerate for 48 hours. Good foam action your ladies will dance too.
> 
> If I don't fly imma die anyway


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## westbmorekush (Feb 10, 2017)

Kind Sir said:


> I've had successful grows, but just curious how you do things? What ALL do you give your plants?


Barley, mug beans, coconut water,alfalfa sprouts, and sometimes corn sprouts. Are my main sprouts. Weekly she gets her alfalfa , kelp and worm casting tea sometimes top dressings with the leavings. But now that she's flowering: Banana and molasses for about 3 weeks to get that potassium boosts she loves.

If I don't fly imma die anyway


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## lr3 (Apr 4, 2017)

How much alfalfa SST is recommended per gallon? Mendo dope boys mentioned on round table that it is a lot stronger than popcorn tea. Wondering how high of cytokinin levels alfalfa has relative to popcorn tea. It should have the same apical dominance suppression effect--possibly/likely to a greater degree... So all buds act like the main/terminal bud...

Anyone ever used alfalfa SST. I think MendoDope boys said to use it at about 1/4 the rate of popcorn because it is so strong. They also said something about not brewing it in a tea for more than a day... supposedly become toxic to plants if left longer--they said something of that nature during the growtube...


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## growersluv (Apr 4, 2017)

How much alfalfa SST is recommended per gallon? Mendo dope boys mentioned on round table that it is a lot stronger than popcorn tea. Wondering how high of cytokinin levels alfalfa has relative to popcorn tea. It should have the same apical dominance suppression effect--possibly/likely to a greater degree... So all buds act like the main/terminal bud...

Anyone ever used alfalfa SST. I think MendoDope boys said to use it at about 1/4 the rate of popcorn because it is so strong. They also said something about not brewing it in a tea for more than a day... supposedly become toxic to plants if left longer--they said something of that nature during the growtube...

Check out my DIY IG channel @growersluv @craginrock on youtube


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## Thai_Lights (Apr 5, 2017)

st0wandgrow said:


> I've only ever used barley, alfalfa, and chia seeds. The chia seeds were a bit of a pain in the nut-sack. They sprout, but turn in to a jellied mess almost like tapioca balls. I do believe the wheatgrass will be great. According to another grower who is very knowledgeable on the topic grass seeds are excellent to use.


What's your barley recipe if you don't mind me asking? And how and when do you use it?


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## westbmorekush (Apr 5, 2017)

Thai_Lights said:


> What's your barley recipe if you don't mind me asking? And how and when do you use it?


I aerate it in a 5gal bucket and I use( 2 row roasted barley). At least 24hrs , plus I add some cocoa nut water( not the can) but the water in the rectangular box for when I don't want to sprout corn. Your gonna love how your ladies respond to the barley tea.

If I don't fly imma die anyway


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## Thai_Lights (Apr 5, 2017)

westbmorekush said:


> I aerate it in a 5gal bucket and I use( 2 row roasted barley). At least 24hrs , plus I add some cocoa nut water( not the can) but the water in the rectangular box for when I don't want to sprout corn. Your gonna love how your ladies respond to the barley tea.
> What's 2 row roasted barley? And how much do you use? And what's coconut water not in a can? That's the only coconut water I know haha
> 
> If I don't fly imma die anyway


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## westbmorekush (Apr 5, 2017)

Check out the barley on Amazon and I use 3/4 to 1 cup of barley that I grind up in my ninja grinder and add it to my 5gal bucket to aerate for 24 to 48 hrs. Cocoa nut water in the box that is all organic. Not with additives. You can add 1 cup of cocoa nut water to 5gal water or you can add with the barley tea

If I don't fly imma die anyway


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## Thai_Lights (Apr 5, 2017)

westbmorekush said:


> Check out the barley on Amazon and I use 3/4 to 1 cup of barley that I grind up in my ninja grinder and add it to my 5gal bucket to aerate for 24 to 48 hrs. Cocoa nut water in the box that is all organic. Not with additives. You can add 1 cup of cocoa nut water to 5gal water or you can add with the barley tea
> 
> If I don't fly imma die anyway


I work at a grain terminal that ships barley. I'll check out the one youre talking about though


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## Thai_Lights (Apr 5, 2017)

westbmorekush said:


> Check out the barley on Amazon and I use 3/4 to 1 cup of barley that I grind up in my ninja grinder and add it to my 5gal bucket to aerate for 24 to 48 hrs. Cocoa nut water in the box that is all organic. Not with additives. You can add 1 cup of cocoa nut water to 5gal water or you can add with the barley tea
> 
> If I don't fly imma die anyway


My next question... is it okay for veg? And what is different then my current tea with ewc and molasses


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## westbmorekush (Apr 5, 2017)

Thai_Lights said:


> My next question... is it okay for veg? And what is different then my current tea with ewc and molasses


Yup, its cool. Your tea is cool, ewc and molasses is a must. Sorry if I'm being vague, I'm totally relaxed right now.

If I don't fly imma die anyway


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## Thai_Lights (Apr 5, 2017)

westbmorekush said:


> Yup, its cool. Your tea is cool, ewc and molasses is a must. Sorry if I'm being vague, I'm totally relaxed right now.
> 
> If I don't fly imma die anyway


What's will the barley tea exactly do for my plant


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## westbmorekush (Apr 6, 2017)

Thai_Lights said:


> What's will the barley tea exactly do for my plant


This should cover it for you

If I don't fly imma die anyway


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## Thai_Lights (Apr 6, 2017)

westbmorekush said:


> This should cover it for you
> 
> If I don't fly imma die anyway


That's awesome bro respect.


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## westbmorekush (Apr 6, 2017)

Thai_Lights said:


> That's awesome bro respect.


No problem, you definitely will like it as a top dressing. Alot of microbial life

If I don't fly imma die anyway


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## Thai_Lights (Apr 6, 2017)

westbmorekush said:


> No problem, you definitely will like it as a top dressing. Alot of microbial life
> 
> If I don't fly imma die anyway


And keep the soil somewhat moist too correct?


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## westbmorekush (Apr 6, 2017)

Thai_Lights said:


> And keep the soil somewhat moist too correct?


Yup, you are on your way homeboy.

If I don't fly imma die anyway


----------



## jonro (Apr 14, 2017)

don't know if this is kosher or not, but how effective are cannabis/hemp seeds for SST?


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## Thai_Lights (Apr 14, 2017)

I have a question too doss thr Marley have to be malted?


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## esh dov ets (Apr 14, 2017)

i like malted Marley.


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## westbmorekush (Apr 18, 2017)

Thai_Lights said:


> I have a question too doss thr Marley have to be malted?


Lol, Malted barley and yes. Very important.

If I don't fly imma die anyway


----------



## westbmorekush (Apr 18, 2017)

jonro said:


> don't know if this is kosher or not, but how effective are cannabis/hemp seeds for SST?


I've read of someone doing that but I never tried.

If I don't fly imma die anyway


----------



## esh dov ets (Apr 18, 2017)

jonro said:


> don't know if this is kosher or not, but how effective are cannabis/hemp seeds for SST?


defiantly a good idea to use cannabis spouts if you have tons to spare. proly get a rabbi to bless it pretty easy too.


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## Thai_Lights (Apr 23, 2017)

westbmorekush said:


> I've read of someone doing that but I never tried.
> 
> If I don't fly imma die anyway


That 5 gal buckets how much can you dilute it?


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## DonTesla (Apr 26, 2017)

Tjingles said:


> Okay so here is a clip that I found with the breakdown composition of wheatgrass. It has almost the full B vitamin spectrum. Which to me means it will have stress releaving properties. Direct substitute to superthrive or any other B product.
> 
> Also vitamin E will help with drought resistance, vitamin C as well....probably a great high temp summer application.
> 
> ...


Best post!!!


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## westbmorekush (Apr 27, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> Best post!!!


So how do you apply, my wife will be starting to juice wheatgrass soon and I'm down for anything organic for my babies. 

If I don't fly imma die anyway


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## DonTesla (Apr 27, 2017)

westbmorekush said:


> So how do you apply, my wife will be starting to juice wheatgrass soon and I'm down for anything organic for my babies.
> 
> If I don't fly imma die anyway


Lol, you have lucky babies my friend

We/I just eat a row of fresh sprouts, a day in the smoothies, and freeze the seed and roots masses in the freezer and then thaw/feed those to the composts/worms, while the bunny gets what we can't eat.. Then as the recyclers (bunny/worms, etc) consume it it gets entered into the bio web.. 

Tbh at the moment I don't really rely on SSTs at all, my style is fairly laden with fresh enzymes and tricks. but I just know there's always room for improvement so I like to learn all styles if i can, and compare for myself. I'm more here to do just that, compare/learn more about them so they can become an extra compliment and trigger for friends erc, so one can have more than one way to cause a speed up flowering or slow down in stretching etc. 

I use certain foliars and spectrums to cause certain effects like stem growth flower growth etc, so its very interesting to see the parallel worlds .. I just appreciated that post so much I saved the info for my business and had to say great post!


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## westbmorekush (Apr 28, 2017)

DonTesla said:


> Lol, you have lucky babies my friend
> 
> We/I just eat a row of fresh sprouts, a day in the smoothies, and freeze the seed and roots masses in the freezer and then thaw/feed those to the composts/worms, while the bunny gets what we can't eat.. Then as the recyclers (bunny/worms, etc) consume it it gets entered into the bio web..
> 
> ...


I have a worm tower that is about to give me my first run of castings. Real easy to do and doesn't cost me a dime. I even have worms in my pots. Organic all day. I will be feeding my worms the leftovers form the wheatgrass, thanks Don Tesla.

If I don't fly imma die anyway


----------



## esh dov ets (Apr 28, 2017)

westbmorekush said:


> So how do you apply, my wife will be starting to juice wheatgrass soon and I'm down for anything organic for my babies.
> 
> If I don't fly imma die anyway


you can use the juice. how ever much nutrients are in each oz of juice will go to your soil and plant.


----------



## Cast710 (Apr 28, 2017)

Ok so I know I'm late to the party but I have a few questions. After the initial soak gets dumped, does anyone use the water the seeds soak in for a second or third time or must it be dumped? Can these SST's have any effect when applied thru a foliar spray? Lastly, I know someone touched on the topic of storing it but does anyone know what the rule is on whether they can be stored at all whether frozen, refridgerated or at room temp. Is it better to apply a SST alone, or would kelp, coconut water, fulpower & fish hydrolase added be a good idea?


----------



## DonTesla (Apr 30, 2017)

Cast710 said:


> Ok so I know I'm late to the party but I have a few questions. After the initial soak gets dumped, does anyone use the water the seeds soak in for a second or third time or must it be dumped? Can these SST's have any effect when applied thru a foliar spray? Lastly, I know someone touched on the topic of storing it but does anyone know what the rule is on whether they can be stored at all whether frozen, refridgerated or at room temp. Is it better to apply a SST alone, or would kelp, coconut water, fulpower & fish hydrolase added be a good idea?


Generally you want to keep separate and mix at the end if you can, I'd rather keep separate, do something every day then everything at once

Generally you throw away cause of growth inhibitors but spraying on bricks and weeds would be good perhaps!?

Spraying through a mister generally is a very direct way of triggering responses, the plants have stomata its kind like our pores .. Very close to how our skin works .. I see it like a bath vs a shower.. Which can be mineralization and healing or irritating depending on the quality, makeup, and source of the liquid


----------



## DonTesla (Apr 30, 2017)

westbmorekush said:


> I have a worm tower that is about to give me my first run of castings. Real easy to do and doesn't cost me a dime. I even have worms in my pots. Organic all day. I will be feeding my worms the leftovers form the wheatgrass, thanks Don Tesla.
> 
> If I don't fly imma die anyway


Nice work West B!!! Organic all day is my moto aha


----------



## southernguy99 (May 3, 2017)

Hey Guys question about making alfalfa SST just made a batch for the first time got them all blended up and into the water , I have no fermented smell or anything , is that normal , its just a milky looking water, also how long will that keep in the bucket , should it be stored in a cool dark place or put maybe put it in air tight bottles. thanks for any info,


----------



## MrKnotty (Jul 12, 2017)

southernguy99 said:


> Hey Guys question about making alfalfa SST just made a batch for the first time got them all blended up and into the water , I have no fermented smell or anything , is that normal , its just a milky looking water, also how long will that keep in the bucket , should it be stored in a cool dark place or put maybe put it in air tight bottles. thanks for any info,


I have always used my sst the day I blend it up. Ohh and by the way, you want a cloudy delicious smelling concoction. You did it right. I have read some people letting the seeds soak for 48 hours, after blending, straining and then root drenching. I have never done that though. I also believe Dr Chos Korean natural farming has a recipe on fermenting SSTs. There are free PDFS of that book online. The unconventional farmer also might have a recipe for long term storage, I can't remember. Hope this helps!

Peace


----------



## Thai_Lights (Jul 13, 2017)

What about top dressing instead? How often/how much?


----------



## Mazer (Sep 5, 2017)

st0wandgrow said:


> A member of another forum freezes the SST in a concentrated form in the ice cube trays, then adds them to his water bucket. He warms the water a bit prior to adding the cubes which obviously melts them within minutes.


Dear St0wandgrow,
I was asking on the Rols forum about freezing coconut water as I can only use minute amounts of it at every watering and I always find pint size bottle of it. So her I go again.
Would anyone consider freezing coco water to preserve its content or would the enzymes and amino acids be broken down by the somewhat slow freezing process?

IceCubingly yours,
M


----------



## RandomHero8913 (Sep 6, 2017)

Mazer said:


> Dear St0wandgrow,
> I was asking on the Rols forum about freezing coconut water as I can only use minute amounts of it at every watering and I always find pint size bottle of it. So her I go again.
> Would anyone consider freezing coco water to preserve its content or would the enzymes and amino acids be broken down by the somewhat slow freezing process?
> 
> ...



"Boiling and Denaturation. At temperatures around boiling, the chemical bonds that hold together the structure of *enzymes *begin to break down. ... This is unlike *freezing*, which does not *affect enzyme* structure – if temperatures are increased after *freezing*, *enzyme activity* will be restored."

 http://sciencing.com/effects-boiling-freezing-enzyme-activity-23207.html

Cube Away!


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## Mazer (Sep 7, 2017)

RandomHero8913 said:


> "Boiling and Denaturation. At temperatures around boiling, the chemical bonds that hold together the structure of *enzymes *begin to break down. ... This is unlike *freezing*, which does not *affect enzyme* structure – if temperatures are increased after *freezing*, *enzyme activity* will be restored."
> 
> http://sciencing.com/effects-boiling-freezing-enzyme-activity-23207.html
> 
> Cube Away!


Dear RandomHero8913,

I would like to grasp this opportunity to thank you for this prized piece of information. You just allowed me to used Coconut water at a reasonable price.
You truly are a Hero! 
To contribute to this thread I will make a side by side test with unfrozen bottled coconut water vs frozen coconut water. However, I am a small timer (more or less 4 plants at any given time) so my result will be anything BUT scientific.

Coconutingly yours,
M


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## RandomHero8913 (Sep 7, 2017)

Mazer said:


> Dear RandomHero8913,
> 
> I would like to grasp this opportunity to thank you for this prized piece of information. You just allowed me to used Coconut water at a reasonable price.
> You truly are a Hero!
> ...


If my calculations are correct you should need about 5 ice cubes per gallon of water. Keep it simple, if you only need to water a quart of water just throw one in.

That number comes from my notes. You want about 1/4 cup of coconut water per gallon. If you're using the powder coconut water add 2.75g of powder to 1/4 cup of lukewarm water(helps it dissolve better) then add that to your gallon.


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## DOOZY (Dec 7, 2017)

Loven this thread and I have been experementing with pollen for enzymes and hormones . Thread coming soon.


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## Thai_Lights (Dec 7, 2017)

Sup fellas.... I've been just doing the 56g of popcorn sprouting it then top dressing per 4x4 bed... what you guys think?


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## Patsfball4466 (Jul 28, 2019)

I am growing in coco coir. I add canna a and b to my mung bean and pop corn seed sprout tea. Anybody know if I should cut out the canna a and b and use just the seed sprout tea for flower


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## MrKnotty (Sep 3, 2019)

So I've been saving the water from the initial seed soak and giving it to my succulents and other house plants. I was under the impression that water was filled with growth inhibitors from the seeds, but I dont waste water, living in Cali. All the house plants are thriving. They love that dirty 1st soak water actually! Anyone else having similar results?


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## Lurken_Resin84 (Feb 2, 2020)

I'm in the alfalfa camp. who else is using alfalfa and with what sort of dilution rating?? im going 2oz seeds to 10 gallons (half strength) with seaweed (good ole maxicrop) and fulvic(ancient earth)... im a little nervous to go stronger.. 

questions comments concerns? 

(this thread was so good i finally decided to make a RIU profile lol)


deuce


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## 4ftRoots (Feb 3, 2020)

I make Mung bean SST, blend in water, then topdress. Mung beans are cheap as hell and we like to eat them too! I wonder if you can go overboard with an SST. Doesn't seem possible unless alfalfa seeds contain lots of nitrogen... It's just a bunch of enzymes after all.


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## Leeski (Mar 26, 2020)

I use barley & popcorn sst for veg 
And popcorn and mung beans for bloom also in bloom I make a Banana and egg shell tea


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## Leeski (Mar 26, 2020)

Leeski said:


> I use barley & popcorn sst for veg
> And popcorn and mung beans for bloom also in bloom I make a Banana and egg shell tea


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## Leeski (Mar 26, 2020)




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## Bud Man 11 (Apr 15, 2020)

Leeski said:


> I use barley & popcorn sst for veg
> And popcorn and mung beans for bloom also in bloom I make a Banana and egg shell tea


I am interested in hearing more about the Banana and egg shell. Calcium from the egg shell? What else?


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## Leeski (Apr 15, 2020)

Bud Man 11 said:


> I am interested in hearing more about the Banana and egg shell. Calcium from the egg shell? What else?


Mainly for potassium I also add coconut water to it


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## IRL_421 (Jan 10, 2021)

st0wandgrow said:


> Groovy. So just to be clear, you guys aren't aerating the water whilst soaking the seeds?
> 
> Hy, I'm gonna check out the video tmrw. I'm on my phone and it's taking forever to load


I sprouted a table spoon of alfalfa seed in water then into cotton pads as a sprouting medium Contained in a closed seal tub, It sprouted in 5 days I added a litre of water to a jug added my sprouts and blended, I left the mixture to sit over night as mentioned by clackamas coot, then I used the mix at a dilution of 1 table spoon to a litre of water and I use this in veg my seedlings are quite buff, the reason for blending is the release of growth regulators sugars and enzymes, this seems to be working for me it's my first time I also have mung beans, picture of seedlings only nutes are ssts and I've made my on soil mixture of worm castings, compost river rock and rock particles, I really think its working.


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## KhanTheOG (Jul 7, 2021)

Does sprouted alfalfa SEED contain more benefits than alfalfa MEAL soaked in water


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## Houstini (Jul 8, 2021)

Im a big fan of getting my Amylase enzymes from freshly ground malted barley. One less thing I have to brew, am I missing out on other benefits from sst? Possibly, but biggest reason to make sst is for those enzymes and there’s a far simpler method of application for me. I’ll buy it by the 50# bag at the home brew shop for just under $1/pound and I’ll share it with everyone I know that gardens nearby.


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## We Toke Chronic (Sep 12, 2021)

Popcorn Seed Tea method


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## uncle_q (Nov 1, 2021)

4ftRoots said:


> I make Mung bean SST, blend in water, then topdress. Mung beans are cheap as hell and we like to eat them too! I wonder if you can go overboard with an SST. Doesn't seem possible unless alfalfa seeds contain lots of nitrogen... It's just a bunch of enzymes after all.


I've asked myself the same question, all these remedies are meant to boost nutrients, but how is none of this causing people's plants to get nutrient burn? I feel like it's hard to control how much of each nutrient your plants are getting, especially if you already have a fertilizer mix going in.


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## uncle_q (Nov 1, 2021)

Cast710 said:


> Ok so I know I'm late to the party but I have a few questions. After the initial soak gets dumped, does anyone use the water the seeds soak in for a second or third time or must it be dumped? Can these SST's have any effect when applied thru a foliar spray? Lastly, I know someone touched on the topic of storing it but does anyone know what the rule is on whether they can be stored at all whether frozen, refridgerated or at room temp. Is it better to apply a SST alone, or would kelp, coconut water, fulpower & fish hydrolase added be a good idea?


Hey, I'm not sure about the foliar spray, but I know that you should use the SST you make as soon as you blend it into a puree, the longer it is stored, regardless of the methods, the more the enzymes lose their potency. Also, I'm seeing people mix their SST with a variety of methods like compost tea, eggshell and banana tea, kelp meal, fulvic acid, etc, so I'm assuming you should be good to go on that.


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## uncle_q (Nov 1, 2021)

Another question I had for anybody who would be knowledgeable - I'm currently making an SST with alfalfa, my plants are on their 4th week of veg, have been given the SST twice and are loving it. I make it by the traditional soak, rinse, grow until stem is 1/4in long method, and put 30grams (dried) per 5 gallons of water, but I don't aerate it at all. Should I up the dosage as the plants grow bigger, and should I switch anything up as I transition to flowering? I used 15grams for the first watering and upped to 30 on the second and the plants reacted fine, but I'm not sure if I'm getting optimal growth here. Any help would be appreciated.


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## uncle_q (Nov 1, 2021)

MrKnotty said:


> So I've been saving the water from the initial seed soak and giving it to my succulents and other house plants. I was under the impression that water was filled with growth inhibitors from the seeds, but I dont waste water, living in Cali. All the house plants are thriving. They love that dirty 1st soak water actually! Anyone else having similar results?


Same here, I don't waste the soaking water, and my plants enjoy it. I also shake my seeds up as I soak them to help break down the outer shells without doing damage to the seed itself.


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## Liger (Oct 30, 2022)

Lurken_Resin84 said:


> I'm in the alfalfa camp. who else is using alfalfa and with what sort of dilution rating?? im going 2oz seeds to 10 gallons (half strength) with seaweed (good ole maxicrop) and fulvic(ancient earth)... im a little nervous to go stronger..
> 
> questions comments concerns?
> 
> ...


1st timer but this is what I'm doing. My plan is to make 2 gallons of SST water/feed by using 14 total grams of alfalfa seeds. I rinse them in RO water real well then soaked for 12hours, rinsed again and soaked for another 24hours, then removes most of the water and am letting them sprout. Once the bulk has 1/4"+ tails I will blend them up with a cup of water or two. Then take that mixture and strain through coffee filter. Then add that to the 2 gallons and hope I don't ruin grow by giving it to them hah

I have both farmers pride seaweed that I feed my girls and also Mr Fulvic. Is there any specific reason you are giving them that at same time as the SST?


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## Houstini (Oct 31, 2022)

Liger said:


> 1st timer but this is what I'm doing. My plan is to make 2 gallons of SST water/feed by using 14 total grams of alfalfa seeds. I rinse them in RO water real well then soaked for 12hours, rinsed again and soaked for another 24hours, then removes most of the water and am letting them sprout. Once the bulk has 1/4"+ tails I will blend them up with a cup of water or two. Then take that mixture and strain through coffee filter. Then add that to the 2 gallons and hope I don't ruin grow by giving it to them hah
> 
> I have both farmers pride seaweed that I feed my girls and also Mr Fulvic. Is there any specific reason you are giving them that at same time as the SST?


Just ground up fresh malted barley. SST is a cool science experiment but amalayse enzymes are what you are looking for with SST and it’s way easier to just use malted barley as the sugar source in a brewed compost tea. If you’re a soil grower, add it to your topdress a couple times in veg and call it good.


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## Liger (Nov 15, 2022)

Houstini said:


> Just ground up fresh malted barley. SST is a cool science experiment but amalayse enzymes are what you are looking for with SST and it’s way easier to just use malted barley as the sugar source in a brewed compost tea. If you’re a soil grower, add it to your topdress a couple times in veg and call it good.


That is awesome and thanks much. Is there any malted barley that is better than the next? Anything you might recommend or does it not matter? And can you add in veg flower or both?


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## Houstini (Nov 15, 2022)

Liger said:


> That is awesome and thanks much. Is there any malted barley that is better than the next? Anything you might recommend or does it not matter? And can you add in veg flower or both?


if attached to organic, source organic malted barley through brew suppliers. Key is to grind fresh though, I use my high quality espresso burr grinder on a coarse setting. I use barley grinding as a cleaning method on my mazzer super jolly. Serves dual purpose twice a year.


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