# Which would produce more DO in a DWC?



## JSB99 (Jul 5, 2017)

I've got an Active Aqua 60W, 70 L/min pump coming for my 4x5 gallon bucket UnderCurrent build. An 8 output manifold comes with it. 

What I'm wondering is, would 2 air stones per bucket produce more dissolved oxygen than 1 air stone per bucket at twice the pressure (because 4 of the outputs would be shut off)?


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## OldMedUser (Jul 6, 2017)

A couple of airstones per pail would make sure they get lots of air for sure. I could use one like yours to run 4 Rubbermaid tubs of plants which I what I'll be doing in a few months. Price ain't bad either. The Maxima-R adjustable dual outlet ones I use just say 2.5psi but no L/min or anything. Runs two 12" airstones real good and they fit nice in the slots along the bottom of the tubs.

I'm going to see about getting one like yours then I can run my two stones per tub in 4 of them.


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## JSB99 (Jul 6, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> A couple of airstones per pail would make sure they get lots of air for sure. I could use one like yours to run 4 Rubbermaid tubs of plants which I what I'll be doing in a few months. Price ain't bad either. The Maxima-R adjustable dual outlet ones I use just say 2.5psi but no L/min or anything. Runs two 12" airstones real good and they fit nice in the slots along the bottom of the tubs.
> 
> I'm going to see about getting one like yours then I can run my two stones per tub in 4 of them.
> 
> View attachment 3973230


I was looking for square totes that would leave me enough room for 2" pipes in my 4x4 tent, but haven't seen any. The actual DWC square buckets are around $14 + $3 per lid. Way too much for my actual budget, so I'm going with black 5-gallon buckets at HD. Yep, the have black buckets now! And, because of budget constraints, I'm not able to build the LED grow room I had initially designed. But what I've got going right now is pretty similar. I'm using a 600w HID instead of LEDs, and I've also isolated my reflector air from the room, which makes it so easy to manage temps!

The RDWC/Under Current I'm piecing together right now will have 2" bucket pipes/manifolds, and 3/4" return pipes, but again, not as elaborate as what I had designed in the virtual LED grow.






My 4' x 4' grow tent. The duct hose on the left side of the tent is the air intake for the hood. After removing the carpet I laid a couple layers of 3 mil poly on the plywood floor , just to help with small spills. But I've also got a 7x10 pond liner. I'm going to frame in the tent and area just to the right of the tent, 4" high for the liner. The reason I'm doing that is because my UnderCurrent controller will be outside the tent, as well as valves, y-filter, pump, etc. The capacity will be 15 gallons over what my system will hold.






I am a wiring fanatic! I hate loose wires and will spend hours, and sometimes days, organizing cables! LOL






One of two 4" exhaust fans. This one serves two purposes. It exhausts the mothers/clones closet, and brings in filtered air from the hallway next door. The room, as well as the closet door, are really sealed well. I also have a vent in the ceiling which is a passive exhaust for the room. I can feel a decent breeze passing through the ceiling exhaust from the 4" fan bringing air into the room and creating positive pressure.






Tent and hood exhaust fans. Tent is 4" and the hood is 6". Even with all the fans maxed-out in the room, I can't hear them on the other side of the wall. My bathroom fan is louder than the whole room. I got a really robust exhaust fan (440 cfm) for the hood so that I could run it at a much lower speed, bringing the noise down considerably. There are a few things I've got going on that isolate the sound so much you can barely hear the fans right on the other side of the door, but that's a lot to get into here. If anyone's curious, I'll post the things I did to soundproof the room.

Also notice that the closet/room's air intake fan blows air towards the floor, while the tent exhaust hose is at the highest point of the room.






The insulated hood exhaust ducting prevents any heat from bleeding into the room. Without that sleeve, that ducting would get pretty warm. I just bought a duct sleeve rather than insulated duct because the sleeve is really cheap at HD. Insulated ducting can get pricey. Just one more step to make controlling temps a breeze. Also one of the steps I took to isolate sound.






Inside the tent. Scrubber in the upper-right. I'm not thrilled at all with the hood that came with my light package. The footprint sucks, and there are lots of gaps in the welds where unwanted smelly air can get exhausted! I'm in OR so it's all legal here but still, I'd rather not advertise that I'm growing. I guess I shouldn't have been so surprised at the quality, being a package and all. In a couple months I'm going to get a Blockbuster Hood. I had one before with a 1K, and I really liked it. Heavy as all Hell, but an awesome footprint!






2' x 4' mothers (Bonsai Mums) and clones closet.

















The mothers hood is a CFL hood I made with 8 CFLs. I think it'll do okay for the mums, being so small.






My newest DIY bubble cloner. I'm going to cut out a few more spots in the lid, and I've got 2" netpots I'll put in after these clones. I just cut off the bottom of the netpots and let the roots hang in the air. They just hold the clone collars better than just using cut 2" holes. The lights are 2 x 24" T8, 6500k lights mounted to a mylar-wrapped piece of plywood. Really cheap and perfect for clones!

I took some Headband cuttings, which are starting to root after only 3 days. I find the bottled Natural Spring Water for the reservoir works really well compared to other sources I know that a hood isn't necessary with a cloner, but it keeps them from flopping over after a few hours of being cut. First day I leave the lights on for 24hrs, mist the cover and cuttings with purified water then cover, and close the hood vents. Day 2 I start leaving the cover off for a few minutes a few times a day, and open the hood vents so some air is getting in, but still retaining a lot of moisture. Also set lights to 18/6 (I believe dark periods help clones). Day 3, remove hood and let 'em root  I've always had great success getting roots after only a few days with DIY bubble/aero cloners! 

The duct on the left of the cloner is the air intake for the room. It's a short piece of 6" duct that points away for a little light control. It's actually not even necessary. The closet is light and air tight from the room.






Air intake vent on the other side of the closet


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## OldMedUser (Jul 6, 2017)

Remind me not to show you the rat's nest I live and grow in. 

I'm forever changing the configuration of my grow spaces so there's no use permanently attaching things. I keep the electrics off the floor and sweep regularly but wires get hung on any available hook in the ceiling as needed.

Should have copy/pasted all that post in your grow thread. I'm all subbed up there.


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## JSB99 (Jul 7, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> Remind me not to show you the rat's nest I live and grow in.
> 
> I'm forever changing the configuration of my grow spaces so there's no use permanently attaching things. I keep the electrics off the floor and sweep regularly but wires get hung on any available hook in the ceiling as needed.
> 
> Should have copy/pasted all that post in your grow thread. I'm all subbed up there.


 LMAO! Don't worry about it, I'm the one who's not in the norm. There are a whole bunch of filled in drywall holes from moving things around until I was happy with the layout. Maybe a little OCD on my part


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## Jypsy Dog (Jul 7, 2017)

You ever check the breakers feeding all that equipment? Your Insurance guy would just Laugh at a claim.


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## rkymtnman (Jul 7, 2017)

Jypsy Dog said:


> You ever check the breakers feeding all that equipment? Your Insurance guy would just Laugh at a claim.


I'd never mount a cheap ass Apollo ballast on my wall for sure. 

but i would hire him to re-do my wiring. 50 bucks and a bag of zipties and have at it.


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## JSB99 (Jul 7, 2017)

Jypsy Dog said:


> You ever check the breakers feeding all that equipment? Your Insurance guy would just Laugh at a claim.


It's only a 600w ballast, not a 1k

Yes, I made sure my amps were under 85% of my 15A breaker. I was a little worried about tripping it because it's an AFCI breaker and they're prone to tripping if there's too much initial load. I've installed 120v and 240v breakers for my shop, my home theater, and past grows. I was going to be running breakers to this room as well, when I was going to be building an COB LED grow room because of all the drivers. But I think I'm good for now.

Also, the power in the closet is on the kitchen breaker. I tapped into the back of an outlet on the other side.


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## JSB99 (Jul 7, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> I'd never mount a cheap ass Apollo ballast on my wall for sure.


LOL! You think I should hide it behind the tent to avoid any embarrassment?

I'm not hanging it like it's a piece of art, or some piece of high end equipment! It's just a ballast mounted on the wall!


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## JSB99 (Jul 7, 2017)

Using the "6-P's Method" I learned in the Army, a while back, to build my system/room...

6-P's:
Proper
Planning
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance


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## OldMedUser (Jul 7, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Using the "6-P's Method" I learned in the Army, a while back, to build my system/room...
> 
> 6-P's:
> Proper
> ...


And if you don't it all goes FUBAR

Fucked
Up
Beyond
All
Repair


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## OldMedUser (Jul 7, 2017)

Looks like a giant Erecta-Set like I had as a kid.


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## rkymtnman (Jul 8, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> And if you don't it all goes FUBAR
> 
> Fucked
> Up
> ...



mine is a SNAFU; situation normal: all fucked up.


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## rkymtnman (Jul 8, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> LOL! You think I should hide it behind the tent to avoid any embarrassment?
> 
> I'm not hanging it like it's a piece of art, or some piece of high end equipment! It's just a ballast mounted on the wall!


i've read about some "issues" with Apollo and IPower ballasts failing is all. it looks like it's on a surge protector though

that's a nice setup overall. i would put a waterfall in your control bucket. it adds more DO than airstones


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## dirtWeevil (Jul 8, 2017)

i can't speak for Apollo but I've used ipower since 2013-14~ with zero issues, the first one i bought is still in use up north. I figure they are all made in the same factories, the off brands, but the two I've owned have been great.


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## JSB99 (Jul 8, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> Looks like a giant Erecta-Set like I had as a kid.


That was always my favorite toy!


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## JSB99 (Jul 8, 2017)

dirtWeevil said:


> i can't speak for Apollo but I've used ipower since 2013-14~ with zero issues, the first one i bought is still in use up north. I figure they are all made in the same factories, the off brands, but the two I've owned have been great.


I've always had Lumatek ballasts and Eye H lights. This is just my starter kit to get me going. I'll be upgrading some of the equipment as I go along.


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## JSB99 (Jul 8, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> And if you don't it all goes FUBAR
> 
> Fucked
> Up
> ...


Yeah, I remember all those times in the Army when shit was FUBAR, but that was SNAFU! Man I love the Army...now that I've been out for a long time LOL! JK, I had some great times and experiences while I was in.


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## JSB99 (Jul 8, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> i've read about some "issues" with Apollo and IPower ballasts failing is all. it looks like it's on a surge protector though
> 
> that's a nice setup overall. i would put a waterfall in your control bucket. it adds more DO than airstones



Thanks! Yep, going to do a waterfall and no stones in my controller. This might sound like a dumb question, but is there anything more to a "waterfall" than just mounting the hose up high so that the water just pours in? Or should I put a small adapter at the end to jet the water?


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## rkymtnman (Jul 9, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Thanks! Yep, going to do a waterfall and no stones in my controller. This might sound like a dumb question, but is there anything more to a "waterfall" than just mounting the hose up high so that the water just pours in? Or should I put a small adapter at the end to jet the water?


i made something similar to the sprayer next to a kitchen sink where it has multiple sprays like this:


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## JSB99 (Jul 9, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> i made something similar to the sprayer next to a kitchen sink where it has multiple sprays like this:


Cool! I'll set up something like that.


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## JSB99 (Jul 10, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> A couple of airstones per pail would make sure they get lots of air for sure. I could use one like yours to run 4 Rubbermaid tubs of plants which I what I'll be doing in a few months. Price ain't bad either. The Maxima-R adjustable dual outlet ones I use just say 2.5psi but no L/min or anything. Runs two 12" airstones real good and they fit nice in the slots along the bottom of the tubs.
> 
> I'm going to see about getting one like yours then I can run my two stones per tub in 4 of them.
> 
> View attachment 3973230


The pump is pretty powerful! But what I'm finding is that using only 1 airstone/bucket has way better output than 2 airstones. But in larger containers, like yours, you may want two so you can spread them out.


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## OldMedUser (Jul 10, 2017)

When you get roots like this it doesn't much matter where you put the stone as long as there's lots of air.


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## JSB99 (Jul 10, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> When you get roots like this it doesn't much matter where you put the stone as long as there's lots of air.
> 
> View attachment 3975818


F'n, rock on! 

I grew for a couple years back in 2008, via rdwc and aero, and had massive root structures like that. Getting back into it, I decided to do Coco this time. Two months later and I'm dying to get a DWC set up again. Coco is just way too boring for me . I tinker, design, and build, so dwc is like a big science project to me lol


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## zypheruk (Jul 10, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> When you get roots like this it doesn't much matter where you put the stone as long as there's lots of air.
> 
> View attachment 3975818


Do you run your tubs sterile? what about your water temps?, just asking as I will be back to bubblers over the winter.


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## OldMedUser (Jul 10, 2017)

zypheruk said:


> Do you run your tubs sterile? what about your water temps?, just asking as I will be back to bubblers over the winter.


I used to use peroxide for about the first ten years then built a DIY chiller with a gifted water cooler, some 3/8" tubing and a fountain pump in the tub to pump the nutes up through a coil of tubing in the cooler tank and back to the tub. I can easily keep two tubs at 65F no matter how warm the room is so stopped using the peroxide. All the AN nutes I use have some organics in them like aminos that would get destroyed by peroxide so it's only in case of emergency now. Knock wood! 

I still don't use any beneficial bacteria and don't plan to when I get tubs up and running in the fall.


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## OldMedUser (Jul 10, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> F'n, rock on!
> 
> I grew for a couple years back in 2008, via rdwc and aero, and had massive root structures like that. Getting back into it, I decided to do Coco this time. Two more than later and I'm dying to get a decent set up again. Coco is just way too boring for me . I tinker, design, and build, so dwc is like a big science project to me lol


I got to do enough tinkering to keep the house functioning so good old simple DWC tubs are fine for me. I went thru the tinkering process figuring out how to get DWC to work the easiest when I started doing it in 2001 with no internet and just an idea from stuff I'd read at the library about hydroponic gardening that started with the Mayans.

I started off with Rubbermaid tubs as I figured the pails wouldn't hold enough liquid and with bigger or more plants in each tub it turned out to be a good plan. Pails are fine for RDWC but for single use there's too much monitoring of the pH, ppm and water levels for my liking. I can go three days without even going down to the grow room then just walk in, top up with water, check ppm and toss in a bit of nutes to get it back up to where I want it and go. Easy-peasy.

No holes below the water line means never having leaks. I always have an inspection hole in the lid to check nute levels and take out samples for testing or add more water and nutes. Handy with the DWC ScroG as it's hard to lift the lids off. I use a drill pump to drain the tubs when needed.


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## JSB99 (Jul 10, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> I got to do enough tinkering to keep the house functioning so good old simple DWC tubs are fine for me. I went thru the tinkering process figuring out how to get DWC to work the easiest when I started doing it in 2001 with no internet and just an idea from stuff I'd read at the library about hydroponic gardening that started with the Mayans.
> 
> I started off with Rubbermaid tubs as I figured the pails wouldn't hold enough liquid and with bigger or more plants in each tub it turned out to be a good plan. Pails are fine for RDWC but for single use there's too much monitoring of the pH, ppm and water levels for my liking. I can go three days without even going down to the grow room then just walk in, top up with water, check ppm and toss in a bit of nutes to get it back up to where I want it and go. Easy-peasy.
> 
> No holes below the water line means never having leaks. I always have an inspection hole in the lid to check nute levels and take out samples for testing or add more water and nutes. Handy with the DWC ScroG as it's hard to lift the lids off. I use a drill pump to drain the tubs when needed.


Sounds super easy! How many totes do you have? When I started out I was using 2 totes with 4 netpots in each. I had killer results! Then I started messing around with sprayers and different setups. I'd say I'm happiest with an rdwc. I think I can build it stable enough to avoid problems and constant maintenance, which is what I was going through with my original builds.


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## OldMedUser (Jul 10, 2017)

I've got a few different lids for the tubs. I've tried 4 or 6 - 5" pots and made one with 12 - 3.5" pots for a DWC SoG type grow. Basically go with the 4 bigger ones for most grows and with the type of setup I'm planning I'm thinking of 4 tubs done ScroG with two plants per tub to get the screens filled up faster so will need to make some more lids.

You can see the tub on the right has just one air line going in and I used to do all my grows with one 12" airstone no problem but went to two a few years ago.


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## JSB99 (Jul 11, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> I've got a few different lids for the tubs. I've tried 4 or 6 - 5" pots and made one with 12 - 3.5" pots for a DWC SoG type grow. Basically go with the 4 bigger ones for most grows and with the type of setup I'm planning I'm thinking of 4 tubs done ScroG with two plants per tub to get the screens filled up faster so will need to make some more lids.
> 
> You can see the tub on the right has just one air line going in and I used to do all my grows with one 12" airstone no problem but went to two a few years ago.
> 
> View attachment 3975915


Sweet!!!

I love the meat thermometer to monitor water temps! Might have to follow suit.


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## FennarioMike (Jul 11, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I've got an Active Aqua 60W, 70 L/min pump coming for my 4x5 gallon bucket UnderCurrent build. An 8 output manifold comes with it.
> 
> What I'm wondering is, would 2 air stones per bucket produce more dissolved oxygen than 1 air stone per bucket at twice the pressure (because 4 of the outputs would be shut off)?


I would think 1 air stone at 2x the pressure would be the same air volume as 2 with 1/2. Go with 2 at 2x - if you are using a chiller, then your solution can take the extra DO.

I have a UC 6XL system and when I connected everything as instructed, the aqua pore diffusers that came with it put out almost nothing. The main diffuser, in the epicenter was using all the air pressure. I actually added 2 more air pumps - one feeding just the aqua pore diffusers, and another feeding an additional air stone in each module (except the epicenter). So now I actually have 3 pumps on that system, all going to separate circuits/breakers in case one trips. A pump going out can destroy your whole crop in a short time...


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## OldMedUser (Jul 11, 2017)

If I run two tubs with two dual outlet pumps I run one line from each pump to each tub and have the air pumps plugged into different circuits so no mater what at least one stone is running in each tub. No problems with breakers tripping and if there is no power it's because of a power failure and we got nothing but that doesn't often happen. In a prolonged outage I have a 12v DC to 120v AC converter I could at least run the air pumps with a car battery. We have a 3500W generator that can be used too if it's going to be out for days. That's mostly to get the furnace running if it's winter when it's most likely to go out. Gets chilly in the house fast when it's -25C outside.


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## OldMedUser (Jul 11, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Sweet!!!
> 
> I love the meat thermometer to monitor water temps! Might have to follow suit.


It's also to cover the inspection hole in that tub. It reads 8C less than the real temp and it's a pipeline temp gauge I nicked from an abandoned oil well site years ago when I was hauling propane to rigs way up north. Scooped a couple of 150W hps lights too.


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## FennarioMike (Jul 11, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> If I run two tubs with two dual outlet pumps I run one line from each pump to each tub and have the air pumps plugged into different circuits so no mater what at least one stone is running in each tub. No problems with breakers tripping and if there is no power it's because of a power failure and we got nothing but that doesn't often happen. In a prolonged outage I have a 12v DC to 120v AC converter I could at least run the air pumps with a car battery. We have a 3500W generator that can be used too if it's going to be out for days. That's mostly to get the furnace running if it's winter when it's most likely to go out. Gets chilly in the house fast when it's -25C outside.


Yeah, I have all sorts of stuff run on a few circuits, and with the warmer months I've needed to run AC in my flower room. The damn thing trips breakers every now and then. That's why I split up the pumps - initially they were all on the same. Bad idea... I've balanced out the load better now, so it's not happening anymore.


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## JSB99 (Jul 12, 2017)

FennarioMike said:


> I would think 1 air stone at 2x the pressure would be the same air volume as 2 with 1/2.


That's what I would have thought, but it does seem like a single produces more volume. I think what might be happening is, the higher pressure is able to push O2 through smaller pores, making smaller bubbles as well as more DO. But that's just a guess.

Eventually I plan on getting an Alita air pump and a Danner Supreme mag drive water pump. What I'm using right now will be used for backup. Also going to get a Lumatek ballast to replace the Apollo, which I should be ashamed to have hanging on my wall as someone hinted earlier lol.


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## JSB99 (Jul 12, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> If I run two tubs with two dual outlet pumps I run one line from each pump to each tub and have the air pumps plugged into different circuits so no mater what at least one stone is running in each tub. No problems with breakers tripping and if there is no power it's because of a power failure and we got nothing but that doesn't often happen. In a prolonged outage I have a 12v DC to 120v AC converter I could at least run the air pumps with a car battery. We have a 3500W generator that can be used too if it's going to be out for days. That's mostly to get the furnace running if it's winter when it's most likely to go out. Gets chilly in the house fast when it's -25C outside.


Redundency, I like it!

I'd like to pick up a genny soon. I lose power a couple times a winter. Most the time it's not for long, but it's long enough to lose a DWC grow.


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## JSB99 (Jul 12, 2017)

*Dry connect:*


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## OldMedUser (Jul 13, 2017)

So that blue pail is the controller/rez? Controller I bet as your rez was planned for bigger than that.

You figure those big pipes are going to maintain a good seal on the pails? Just too many points of potential failure for my liking. KISS, (Keep It Simple Stoner), and things go a lot smoother. 

Looks like a nice, tidy setup.

Long day so hitting the fart bag early.


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## JSB99 (Jul 13, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> So that blue pail is the controller/rez? Controller I bet as your rez was planned for bigger than that.
> 
> You figure those big pipes are going to maintain a good seal on the pails? Just too many points of potential failure for my liking. KISS, (Keep It Simple Stoner), and things go a lot smoother.
> 
> ...


I follow the KISS rule most of the time, but some projects are too fun and challenging to pass up 

Yes, the blue bucket is the controller. The color is just for asthetics. 2" pipes will help prevent root clogs as well as maintain a good flow. 

I agree that there are an increased amount of failure points, but if done correctly, I think issues can be avoided.

We shall see


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## dirtWeevil (Jul 13, 2017)

I'd like to imagine my setup would be that nice if i had something besides a filthy old tin shed in the southern heat! once we get away from here i want a nice little walk in lol


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## JSB99 (Jul 13, 2017)

dirtWeevil said:


> I'd like to imagine my setup would be that nice if i had something besides a filthy old tin shed in the southern heat! once we get away from here i want a nice little walk in lol


LOL

You know the guys who's cars are nicer than their houses? You could apply the same logic to your grow. Get a nice air-conditioned shed with a recliner and flat screen on one side and a nice spacious grow room on the other half. Who gives a shit about the house, right! LOL


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## JSB99 (Jul 13, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I follow the KISS rule most of the time, but some projects are too fun and challenging to pass up
> 
> Yes, the blue bucket is the controller. The color is just for asthetics. 2" pipes will help prevent root clogs as well as maintain a good flow.
> 
> ...


I take that back. I don't do anything easy. I modify a lot of things to work the exact way that I want it. And if I don't like the way something turns out, I adjust it until I'm absolutely happy with it. Such is the life of an engineer. Always looking at ways to improve things


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## JSB99 (Jul 13, 2017)

Strain: Headband
Medium: Coco Coir
Nutes: General Hydroponics
Container: 10+ Gallons


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## Cx2H (Jul 13, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I was looking for square totes that would leave me enough room for 2" pipes in my 4x4 tent, but haven't seen any. The actual DWC square buckets are around $14 + $3 per lid. Way too much for my actual budget, so I'm going with black 5-gallon buckets at HD. Yep, the have black buckets now! And, because of budget constraints, I'm not able to build the LED grow room I had initially designed. But what I've got going right now is pretty similar. I'm using a 600w HID instead of LEDs, and I've also isolated my reflector air from the room, which makes it so easy to manage temps!
> 
> The RDWC/Under Current I'm piecing together right now will have 2" bucket pipes/manifolds, and 3/4" return pipes, but again, not as elaborate as what I had designed in the virtual LED grow.
> 
> ...


Looks great man real clean. +1

I use a 35w with a 6 out Mani into 4 inch round stones, so many bubbles plant is rocking in its bucket. Roots have engulfed it though. 

SideNote I get big bubbles with the 4's but regular old mini stones built in a T shape with 2 stones shoot water over the top of the buckets.

#Random


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## JSB99 (Jul 13, 2017)

Cx2H said:


> Looks great man real clean. +1
> 
> I use a 35w with a 6 out Mani into 4 inch round stones, so many bubbles plant is rocking in its bucket. Roots have engulfed it though.
> 
> ...


Thanks Man! I've got 4" cylinder air stones right now, but as time goes on I'll probably research better ones. For right now they're working really well, but we'll see how they look a few months from now.


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## Cx2H (Jul 13, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Thanks Man! I've got 4" cylinder air stones right now, but as time goes on I'll probably research better ones. For right now they're working really well, but we'll see how they look a few months from now.


Cool, I have those type as well, last about 6-12 month if you get a cheap nylon brush and brush them every few months. 

Good luck.


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## OldMedUser (Jul 14, 2017)

Cx2H said:


> Cool, I have those type as well, last about 6-12 month if you get a cheap nylon brush and brush them every few months.
> 
> Good luck.


I use those 12" long, blue aquarium airstones and often can reuse them but any bacterial growth in the tubs seems to plug them right up. Scrubbing with a wire brush doesn't seem to help either. Also tried soaking in bleach, caustic soda and dilute acids to no avail. $5 each so it's no big deal to toss them out and use new ones for each grow.

I've seen micro-pore ones that are pretty pricey but supposed to never plug up so may look for them but bought a dozen of the blue ones so good for a while.


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## Cx2H (Jul 14, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> I use those 12" long, blue aquarium airstones and often can reuse them but any bacterial growth in the tubs seems to plug them right up. Scrubbing with a wire brush doesn't seem to help either. Also tried soaking in bleach, caustic soda and dilute acids to no avail. $5 each so it's no big deal to toss them out and use new ones for each grow.
> 
> I've seen micro-pore ones that are pretty pricey but supposed to never plug up so may look for them but bought a dozen of the blue ones so good for a while.


Yeah, if slime is clogging the pores good I soak them in straight h202 for 24 hrs. That usually cleans them up pretty good. I get cheap so I try and reuse them as long as humanly possible, even though I have a drawer full of them. When they are out of service they become weight hold down the new ones if needed.

Yeah I hate to waste. 

The blue ones are hard to clean and get Kia easy. Mine are grey


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## OldMedUser (Jul 14, 2017)

I tried peroxide too and no joy with that either. Diluted the 35% about half and it fizzed a lot but the stone didn't work any better. I got some of that 3/8" black tubing they use to aerate large aquariums but getting it to stay on the bottom is a bitch. I use the same stuff that's watering hose for the garden to aerate my dugout. Just cut the connection off a 25' roll of it and use a hose clamp to attach it to the 1/2" airline that is out in the dugout. Tie a weight to one of the twist ties that are on the roll of hose and drop it to the bottom. Works way better than the large airstones they sell for dugouts and at $15 is a lot better price than the $60 or so for the other ones.

I bought some repair kits for my older Elite air pumps but the new pieces don't seem to be the same as the old ones so they're no use. Gonna get a decent piston drive air pump with a dozen outlets and stop using those cheap aquarium ones. The Maxima ones are pretty good tho and I have a couple of those. For what two more would cost I can get the better pump tho and save the Maximas for back ups. I just rebuilt those and they work fine.


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## JSB99 (Jul 14, 2017)

PVC pipes painted and welded. I went back and forth on painting the pipes, but I'm glad I did.

Used Krylon Fusion Navy Blue spray paint. Worked great! The only prep I did (which was even more than what's required), is wiping them down with 90% alcohol.


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## Shag Pile (Jul 19, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I follow the KISS rule most of the time, but some projects are too fun and challenging to pass up
> 
> Yes, the blue bucket is the controller. The color is just for asthetics. 2" pipes will help prevent root clogs as well as maintain a good flow.
> 
> ...


Nice clean build bro! Im in the planning stages of my own rdwc and I'm trying to found some square containers with lids just so i can seal the tubing into the sides condifently.

I see you've stayed with the round buckets and seem confident with your seals inbetween buckets. How exactly will you plumb it together if i may ask?

Bulkheads with plenty of silicon sealant?


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## JSB99 (Jul 20, 2017)

Shag Pile said:


> Nice clean build bro! Im in the planning stages of my own rdwc and I'm trying to found some square containers with lids just so i can seal the tubing into the sides condifently.
> 
> I see you've stayed with the round buckets and seem confident with your seals inbetween buckets. How exactly will you plumb it together if i may ask?
> 
> Bulkheads with plenty of silicon sealant?


Square buckets are more convenient, but round ones will still work.

If you're set on square buckets and don't mind the cost, you can get 8 and 13 gallon buckets and lids from *here*

The round buckets will flex and flatten when the bulkheads are tightened. To make your own bulkheads, here's what you use (2" for example):

Male bulkhead adapter (Male PVC conduit adapter) $1.16







Female bulkhead adapter (Female PVC conduit adapter) $1.26







20-pack union Washers $16.63






2" hole saw $13.97






Black 5-Gallon buckets $3.98 ea at Home Depot (lids available too)






Black netpot lids $6.25 ea







Cut the 2" holes using light pressure
Sand the sides of the holes to remove burrs and allow the male fitting to easily pass through
The male adapter can be used either inside the bucket, or outside. It doesn't matter. What does matter is where you place the washer. The washer should always go on the male adapter. This is because of the threads. Water will leak through the threads if the washer is placed on the female side. Having said that, you may have to use a washer on both sides because the fittings really tighten up the more you screw them together. The extra washer will act as a spacer.
Hand tighten the adapters, but do not over-tighten. You want to tighten them so that a little water might drip out when the bucket is filled. At that point, hand tighten until the water stops dripping. This means you have to do this once the system is in place.

Note: You can cut the female adapter in half so that it only has the threads. This frees up room in the buckets. 







Original DIY concept here

*Hope that helps*


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## OldMedUser (Jul 20, 2017)

With those fittings I can see where square pails or tubs would likely be better to get a better fit.

Wouldn't 1 - 1 1/2" work just as well? Some screen over the inside should keep roots out of the pipes tho from the roots I get in mine they would likely block the screen eventually I bet.

With RDWC those deep net pots are fine but I wouldn't want them that big in a single pail as there wouldn't be enough room for nutes IMO and a large plant would need twice daily top-ups.

I'm still debating whether to go with RDWC or stick with single tubs. With single tubs I only need to top-up every 3 days or so and only lose a part of my crop if something goes wrong as it invariably does eventually. Murphy never sleeps.


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## JSB99 (Jul 20, 2017)

Completed pump manifold:


















I use galvanized screws on my spray bar (waterfall) to hold the bar in place. I do this because I want the ability to disassemble it for cleaning, or swap it out with other ones. The screws going through the fittings are only deep enough to grab the pipe.






I made a few different sprayers and ended up with this. This produces great jets and should create a good amount of DO.


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## dstroy (Jul 20, 2017)

Have you done a wet run with a fully topped off system yet? Read the thread and didn't see one.


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## JSB99 (Jul 20, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> With those fittings I can see where square pails or tubs would likely be better to get a better fit.


Yep, I hear ya. Ultimately, if I have issues with the round buckets, I can swap them out for squarish totes for cheap, and without losing too much money on the buckets I'd be replacing.




OldMedUser said:


> Wouldn't 1 - 1 1/2" work just as well? Some screen over the inside should keep roots out of the pipes tho from the roots I get in mine they would likely block the screen eventually I bet.


It'll work for any size. The point of going larger is to help avoid root clog. It's still not a guarantee though, and trimming the roots is sometimes required.There are UC systems out there with 3", and even 4" pipes.Things start getting really expensive after 2" pipes though.

I've looked for screens, but really wasn't finding too much. If you happen to find some, post 'em so I can check them out. I do want to have screens if possible.



OldMedUser said:


> With RDWC those deep net pots are fine but I wouldn't want them that big in a single pail as there wouldn't be enough room for nutes IMO and a large plant would need twice daily top-ups.


I'm glad you brought that up! The day I got those lids I wasn't happy about how big the netpots were. It's much better to use small ones like 3". So I'm going to make my own lids and try to sell what I've got.




OldMedUser said:


> I'm still debating whether to go with RDWC or stick with single tubs. With single tubs I only need to top-up every 3 days or so and only lose a part of my crop if something goes wrong as it invariably does eventually. Murphy never sleeps.


When I first started out, I used 2 tubs for 6 plants, and it worked great! I had really good results. The only real downside I saw was having to maintain 2 systems instead of 1, as far as feeding, adjusting pH, draining, etc...

I ended up building a top-feed RDWC with 3/4" pipes. That worked really well too. It was much easier to maintain, but it did create many more points of failure. I had to chase down multiple leaks for a while, and had to fight clogging. Because of those issues, I went to aero, and hung my roots in the air. That too worked really well, but I did have to face issues with clogged sprayers. Under Current is just too cool of a set up to not want to try to build


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## JSB99 (Jul 20, 2017)

dstroy said:


> Have you done a wet run with a fully topped off system yet? Read the thread and didn't see one.


Yes on the manifold, and no on the buckets. I don't have the washers yet. Took forever for them to get shipped. Should have them early next week. I'm probably going to do a wet test in the grow room instead of outside. I've got a pond liner in there and I won't have to fill the buckets up much to trouble shoot. The manifold has a hose input where I can vacuum up water anywhere in the room and pump it outside


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## OldMedUser (Jul 20, 2017)

With the lid on will it get enough fresh air in there to add extra O2 tho?

Be great to have an O2 tester to see just how efficient different methods work.


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## OldMedUser (Jul 20, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I've looked for screens, but really wasn't finding too much. If you happen to find some, post 'em so I can check them out. I do want to have screens if possible.


I just use plastic window screen and a SS hose clamp. Could make a large cone to fit over the end of the fitting inside the pails so it might not plug up enough to restrict water flow at all. I use a small drill pump to drain my DWC tubs especially if they are ScroGs and clamped some screen over the end of the 3/4" tubing that goes into the tub to extract the nutes. I usually only do one drain and refill after the stretch so it's not like it's every week. For my little fountain pump that sits in the bottom of the tub to circulate nutes thru the cooler I hot-glued some screen over the holes on them. I didn't have any plugging problems with that.



I use the 5" for tubs with 1 - 4 plants and made a SoG lid with 12 - 3.5" net pots. Need a lot less hydroton to fill them too but I have two large bags of those. I drilled a bunch of 3/8" holes in a tobacco can to use as a filter to get the tiny balls out of each batch that I'm going to use as the little ones plug up the holes in the net pots or fall thru into the tub.

 



JSB99 said:


> When I first started out, I used 2 tubs for 6 plants, and it worked great! I had really good results. The only real downside I saw was having to maintain 2 systems instead of 1, as far as feeding, adjusting pH, draining, etc...


I'm looking to have up to 6 tubs going at once. Four in the flowering room and 2 vegging in readiness to move into the flowering room as one gets done. I expect to be running 3 or 4 strains at once so that's another reason to have separate tubs as they will have different nutrient needs according to strain and stage of flowering. With the pH perfect nutes I won't be bothering with checking that. Quick top-up and ppm check so 5min each every 3 days or so isn't a lot of work. Hopefully be cropping one tub every couple weeks once it's all up and running.

I'd be getting a lot of prep work done now but taking off to BC at the end of the month for 4 or 5 weeks is complicating things as the wife would need a lot of training to run things in my absence and her track record isn't that great.


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## JSB99 (Jul 20, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> With the lid on will it get enough fresh air in there to add extra O2 tho?


Hadn't thought of that. I could bore a few holes in the lid.


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## JSB99 (Jul 20, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> I just use plastic window screen and a SS hose clamp.


I had thought of that as well, but also thought that the same problem would persist. Whether growing into the pipes, or bunching up against a filter, I'd have the same issues. But I could be wrong. I haven't grown anything in a system like this before.




OldMedUser said:


> I use the 5" for tubs with 1 - 4 plants and made a SoG lid with 12 - 3.5" net pots. Need a lot less hydroton to fill them too but I have two large bags of those. I drilled a bunch of 3/8" holes in a tobacco can to use as a filter to get the tiny balls out of each batch that I'm going to use as the little ones plug up the holes in the net pots or fall thru into the tub.


That's cool that you can swap out the lids based on what you want to grow!



OldMedUser said:


> I'm looking to have up to 6 tubs going at once. Four in the flowering room and 2 vegging in readiness to move into the flowering room as one gets done. I expect to be running 3 or 4 strains at once so that's another reason to have separate tubs as they will have different nutrient needs according to strain and stage of flowering. With the pH perfect nutes I won't be bothering with checking that. Quick top-up and ppm check so 5min each every 3 days or so isn't a lot of work. Hopefully be cropping one tub every couple weeks once it's all up and running.


You must have a decent amount of room to work in with that many tubs 

This is right after I switched from 2 totes to RDWC + Sprayers


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## OldMedUser (Jul 20, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Hadn't thought of that. I could bore a few holes in the lid.


Then you have to use a porous cover to block the light while letting air pass thru. Still won't circulate fresh air into the area where the spray happens without a fan of some kind. I still think airstones are the way to go to maximize DO.



JSB99 said:


> You must have a decent amount of room to work in with that many tubs


I figure 4 tubs in the new 8x4' space and a couple in the current grow room or in the upstairs bedroom that is going to be for veg only. Each tub sitting on a dollie so I can easily shift them around to work on the plants. I've been doing my DWC ScroGs that way so I can sit on a chair while tying down grow tips etc. My back can't handle me being bent over for more than a few minutes so I rarely do the dishes and leave that up to the women.  Compression fracture of the L1 in a 1987 motorcycle accident. Could have been a lot worse.


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## JSB99 (Jul 20, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> Then you have to use a porous cover to block the light while letting air pass thru. Still won't circulate fresh air into the area where the spray happens without a fan of some kind. I still think airstones are the way to go to maximize DO.


It's fairly dark where the controller sits. I've got a 70 L/min commercial air pump for the 4 buckets (1 line/bucket) and a Large cylinder airstone for each bucket. I didn't really see the need to have an airstone in the controller with the waterfall. Are controllers with a waterfall usually have an open lid or something? I thought that the water jetting into the reservoir water created the DO. Am I mistaken?





OldMedUser said:


> I figure 4 tubs in the new 8x4' space and a couple in the current grow room or in the upstairs bedroom that is going to be for veg only. Each tub sitting on a dollie so I can easily shift them around to work on the plants. I've been doing my DWC ScroGs that way so I can sit on a chair while tying down grow tips etc. My back can't handle me being bent over for more than a few minutes so I rarely do the dishes and leave that up to the women.  Compression fracture of the L1 in a 1987 motorcycle accident. Could have been a lot worse.


Same with my back. Lots of military injuries (Infantry Mortars, 1987-1993). It's one of the reasons I wanted to go back to hydro. Besides the initial setup, there's really no heavy lifting.


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## OldMedUser (Jul 20, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> It's fairly dark where the controller sits. I've got a 70 L/min commercial air pump for the 4 buckets (1 line/bucket) and a Large cylinder airstone for each bucket. I didn't really see the need to have an airstone in the controller with the waterfall. Are controllers with a waterfall usually have an open lid or something? I thought that the water jetting into the reservoir water created the DO. Am I mistaken?


If you got stones in each pail then the spray bar is most likely redundant but certainly won't hurt.


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## Shag Pile (Jul 20, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Square buckets are more convenient, but round ones will still work.
> 
> If you're set on square buckets and don't mind the cost, you can get 8 and 13 gallon buckets and lids from *here*
> 
> ...


Right on bro! That's super simple to follow. 

I have 4 individual round 5gal dwc buckets going right now. Looks like I'll just convert those into my rdwc.


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## JSB99 (Jul 20, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> If you got stones in each pail then the spray bar is most likely redundant but certainly won't hurt.


Kind of what I figured. It's cool though  One of the reasons I'm going UC is because it's cool seeing the machine that grows your weed in action. Tired of staring at my coco grow and yelling "Do something!" LOL I started out with hydro and actually find it easier than soil.


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## JSB99 (Jul 20, 2017)

Shag Pile said:


> Right on bro! That's super simple to follow.
> 
> I have 4 individual round 5gal dwc buckets going right now. Looks like I'll just convert those into my rdwc.


Very cool!


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## JSB99 (Jul 20, 2017)

Anyone ever use a venturi to create DO? My pump came with a venturi attachment. I tried it out and it's really f'n cool. Creates a tremendous amount of bubbles, and probably DO as well. Not sure you can use the venturi attachment when the pump is in-line rather than submerged. Could be wrong. I tried looking for grows using a venturi, but didn't really find anything substantial.

Just curious


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## JSB99 (Jul 20, 2017)

Shag Pile said:


> Right on bro! That's super simple to follow.
> 
> I have 4 individual round 5gal dwc buckets going right now. Looks like I'll just convert those into my rdwc.


It's nice going from managing multiple containers down to a single, controller container/bucket.


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## Shag Pile (Jul 20, 2017)

What do you think of a setup with a water pump that pulls water from the bottom of your control res, then pushes the water though a venturi setup(injects air into the line) and into the bottom of your buckets. 

 

Your return lines would be up high on the buckets and simply gravity fed back to the control res where it can then waterfall and create more DO.


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## Shag Pile (Jul 20, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Anyone ever use a venturi to create DO? My pump came with a venturi attachment. I tried it out and it's really f'n cool. Creates a tremendous amount of bubbles, and probably DO as well. Not sure you can use the venturi attachment when the pump is in-line rather than submerged. Could be wrong. I tried looking for grows using a venturi, but didn't really find anything substantial.
> 
> Just curious


Read my mind haha

Theoretically its the same as an air stone and air pump just without the added noise. It still adds o2 to the bucket and creates and disturbance on the water surface for water to become oxygenated


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## JSB99 (Jul 20, 2017)

Shag Pile said:


> What do you think of a setup with a water pump that pulls water from the bottom of your control res, then pushes the water though a venturi setup(injects air into the line) and into the bottom of your buckets.
> 
> View attachment 3981619
> 
> Your return lines would be up high on the buckets and simply gravity fed back to the control res where it can then waterfall and create more DO.


Now I know why no one does it. Too complex 

I was thinking about having the pump push the venturi bubbles into the res, then that water starts going through the buckets again. Basically just a way to add DO to the controller. Probably overkill.


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## OldMedUser (Jul 20, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Kind of what I figured. It's cool though  One of the reasons I'm going UC is because it's cool seeing the machine that grows your weed in action. Tired of staring at my coco grow and yelling "Do something!" LOL I started out with hydro and actually find it easier than soil.


No shit. A lot of Hurry up and wait going on with almost any kind of growing but for me the simpler the better and that's mainly why a complex system doesn't float my boat. Same with cars and electronics too. The more bells and whistles there are the more likely something is gonna give me grief.

I find hydro much easier and much more productive so looking forward to getting back into it for the bulk of my growing. I'll still be growing plants like moms and breeders in ProMix as it's pretty simple and maintenance free. Not to mention I stocked up with about 1000L of ProMix last fall and have to use it up on something.


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## JSB99 (Jul 20, 2017)

Mounted air pump:

I mounted it here because my fridge is right on the other side and it blocks any remaining noise. When I had my house built, I had the builders insulate all the interior walls. Doing that has made a huge impact on how quiet the room is. It's silent unless you stand right outside the door. Also added door sweeps. That helps quit a bit as well.


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## Shag Pile (Jul 20, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Now I know why no one does it. Too complex
> 
> I was thinking about having the pump push the venturi bubbles into the res, then that water starts going through the buckets again. Basically just a way to add DO to the controller. Probably overkill.


I don't think its too complex. A bit more plumbing and more points of failure maybe. I probably just cant explain it simply enough. Wait till i build it 

If you were to add the venturi it'd be replacing the waterfall into the res right? I dont think either way would add any more DO then the other.


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## JSB99 (Jul 20, 2017)

Shag Pile said:


> I don't think its too complex. A bit more plumbing and more points of failure maybe. I probably just cant explain it simply enough. Wait till i build it
> 
> If you were to add the venturi it'd be replacing the waterfall into the res right? I dont think either way would add any more DO then the other.


If you build it, I definitely want to see it! 

Yep, right into the res below the water line, which is going to immediately start going to the buckets. I'd really be interested in hearing from anyone who's done this, and the results.


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## JSB99 (Jul 21, 2017)

Been running for hours, and no leaks yet 






Suspending the air pump reduced some of the hum






Pipe/tubes pass-through - I cut holes using the inside diam. for the sizes so that they were smaller than the pipe/tubes. It takes a little force to push them through, but it makes a nice tight seal.


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## JSB99 (Jul 21, 2017)

A little off-topic here: I've got a healthy Headband on a cart that I'm growing both indoors and outside. Every day I take her out for 10 hours at 9:00 am and bring her back in at 7:00 pm. The other 8 hours she's under a 600w MH. She's the only plant I've got going, except for the multitude of clones from her I've got rooting. In about a month, when the clones are ready for transplant into the DWC, I plan on flipping her to flower. I've got another bedroom that's not in use. I'm planning on blacking out the room and keeping her in there when she's not outside for 12 hours. It's all legal here so I don't care if she stinks up the spare bedroom, which has a ceiling fan I plan on keeping on.

I've read about the dangers of bringing bugs inside. That's why I'm going to keep the flowering plant separate from the grow room. I plan on cleaning, fogging, and sterilizing everything in the grow room before I start to veg the clones. This will be the only time I'll be doing the indoor/outdoor thing. This was done out of necessity.

Thoughts? Probably get swamped with people telling me how stupid I am LOL


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## OldMedUser (Jul 22, 2017)

As long as you don't toss her in the grow room you'll be fine. Just take care to watch you don't transfer any bugs from her to the new plants but you have to watch for that just going into the grow room after being outside anyways.

I did one like that but I just left it out all summer as the days are long enough here to keep it in veg. Had a nice load of mites and thrips that I had to get rid of so kept her in the shop in the window until I got 3 full treatments in then put her in the grow room by herself to flower. Never saw a bug one her for the rest of her life. She was a good size too. I'd topped the side branches and the tops so was a 3' ball that you couldn't see through.


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## Angus Hung (Jul 22, 2017)

Im doing sort of the same thing starting every thing out side then moving in when the weather turns.
I plan on waiting till week 2 or 3 of bloom when i bring them in. i will give a good prune and spray with bug killer.
then load the room up with thripe killers and mite killers and some preventers.
this is my first try at out door indoor and hope it works out as i love using the free sun for for my veg light.


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## JSB99 (Jul 22, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> As long as you don't toss her in the grow room you'll be fine. Just take care to watch you don't transfer any bugs from her to the new plants but you have to watch for that just going into the grow room after being outside anyways.
> 
> I did one like that but I just left it out all summer as the days are long enough here to keep it in veg. Had a nice load of mites and thrips that I had to get rid of so kept her in the shop in the window until I got 3 full treatments in then put her in the grow room by herself to flower. Never saw a bug one her for the rest of her life. She was a good size too. I'd topped the side branches and the tops so was a 3' ball that you couldn't see through.
> 
> View attachment 3982260


NICE!


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## JSB99 (Jul 22, 2017)

Angus Hung said:


> Im doing sort of the same thing starting every thing out side then moving in when the weather turns.
> I plan on waiting till week 2 or 3 of bloom when i bring them in. i will give a good prune and spray with bug killer.
> then load the room up with thripe killers and mite killers and some preventers.
> this is my first try at out door indoor and hope it works out as i love using the free sun for for my veg light.


I hear ya on the free light. This summers been really mild here in Oregon, but I still have the AC running most days when it gets 75 inside. So not only are we getting free light, but we're not adding heat and taking up even more electricity with fans and stuff.

My Headband loves her full 10 hours of uninterrupted sun each day


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## Angus Hung (Jul 22, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I hear ya on the free light. This summers been really mild here in Oregon, but I still have the AC running most days when it gets 75 inside. So not only are we getting free light, but we're not adding heat and taking up even more electricity with fans and stuff.
> 
> My Headband loves her full 10 hours of uninterrupted sun each day


Im in southren BC. and so far so good, Ive got my green house still pumping out 2 last 4 x8 tents they will be done in the next few weeks, so i have just doubled my square footage for the same price.


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## JSB99 (Jul 22, 2017)

Angus Hung said:


> Im in southren BC. and so far so good, Ive got my green house still pumping out 2 last 4 x8 tents they will be done in the next few weeks, so i have just doubled my square footage for the same price.


Sweet!


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## JSB99 (Jul 22, 2017)

Got my 2" rubber washers today. Hooked one up for leak test, and it worked first time with just hand-tightening they bulkhead. No need for doubling up the washers (adding one to the female side to add wall thickness). Single washer on the MALE side of the bulkhead only works perfectly fine. Bucket barely flexed to account for the bulkhead.


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## Angus Hung (Jul 22, 2017)

looking goood man.. hope she comes together for ya


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## JSB99 (Jul 22, 2017)

To anyone who's following this and plan on using bulkheads, here's something you should consider when cementing bulkhead parts to pipes:

Always make the male adapter the non-rotating part. For example, I have a pipe going between two buckets. The pipe ends are male bulkhead adapters. The female adapter screws on to the male from inside the bucket. The reason for this is because you don't want the washer rotating as you're screwing the two together. The bulkhead would still work, but you stand the chance of tearing up the washer while twisting the male adapter. That would probably cause leaks. 

Remember, the washer always goes on the male adapter, because the threads won't seal and water will leak through them.


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## OldMedUser (Jul 22, 2017)

Angus Hung said:


> Im doing sort of the same thing starting every thing out side then moving in when the weather turns.
> I plan on waiting till week 2 or 3 of bloom when i bring them in. i will give a good prune and spray with bug killer.
> then load the room up with thripe killers and mite killers and some preventers.
> this is my first try at out door indoor and hope it works out as i love using the free sun for for my veg light.


I'd get them in before they start to flower so you aren't spraying shit on the buds that are forming at 3 weeks. I've never sprayed after the start of flowering and prefer not to ever spray even in veg but with that outdoor plant it was spray or leave her out in the snow.  I used Safer's End-All II with a little neem oil added and gave that plant 3 sprays at 3 day intervals. I set it up on a 5 gal pail in the shop with plastic on the floor and a 500W halide work light off to the side so I could make sure I got every little bit of leaf covered well on both sides.

I got 7.5 acres here and would love to grow a shitload outside every summer and just use indoors for breeding and getting plants ready in the new year to go out in early June a decent size. I'm so far north that plants don't start flowering until the middle of August and we sometimes get frost by the end of Aug and for sure by the middle of Sept. so they never have time to finish outside. Would need to run autos and I keep meaning to do that but just never got into it.


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## OldMedUser (Jul 22, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Remember, the washer always goes on the male adapter, because the threads won't seal and water will leak through them.


A little teflon tape to seal the threads wouldn't hurt either.


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## JSB99 (Jul 23, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> A little teflon tape to seal the threads wouldn't hurt either.


Funny you say that. I was planning on wrapping the threads just for a little extra protection


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## JSB99 (Jul 23, 2017)

The netpots on the lids I bought were so big (6", I think). So I just made my own using 3.5" netpots. I originally tried 3", but they seemed too small.

For any noobs following, you want to go smallish on your netpots, not large. Big netpots leave you less room for water in the buckets and it takes more Hydroton to fill them all.

Original vs. new:







New:


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## OldMedUser (Jul 23, 2017)

The holes in those smaller net pot are pretty small too. I got about 100 of them and some the holes are half closed as the mold used to make it must allow leaks so sat at my desk for hours watching TV and trimming out extra plastic to open them up.

I had a mother plant growing in a 2L tobacco can and converted it to DWC by drilling holes in another one then folding up some snow fence to make an air space in the bottom so the ProMix wouldn't be saturated all the time. Sawed a couple inches off the bottom of the rootball and stuffed it into the big netpot. A twisted loop of electrical tape around the rim of the can kept it from falling thru the lid of the tub and a week later had this going on.



 
The aftermath.

 

8oz of nice buds with almost the same in sugar trim and small buds I got tired of trying to trim of the one plant and it went hermie bad around week 6.


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## JSB99 (Jul 23, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> The holes in those smaller net pot are pretty small too. I got about 100 of them and some the holes are half closed as the mold used to make it must allow leaks so sat at my desk for hours watching TV and trimming out extra plastic to open them up.
> 
> I had a mother plant growing in a 2L tobacco can and converted it to DWC by drilling holes in another one then folding up some snow fence to make an air space in the bottom so the ProMix wouldn't be saturated all the time. Sawed a couple inches off the bottom of the rootball and stuffed it into the big netpot. A twisted loop of electrical tape around the rim of the can kept it from falling thru the lid of the tub and a week later had this going on.
> 
> 8oz of nice buds with almost the same in sugar trim and small buds I got tired of trying to trim of the one plant and it went hermie bad around week 6.


Yeah, I noticed the holes were small when I was buying them. I'll just do what you did and drill some holes or cut away parts of the plastic.


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## IFARTED (Jul 25, 2017)

I got a Air Force pro pump it was a extra I never really used super quiet


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## J Henry (Jul 26, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> What I'm wondering is, would 2 air stones per bucket produce more dissolved oxygen than 1 air stone per bucket at twice the pressure (because 4 of the outputs would be shut off)?


So do you really want more Air or do you really want more Oxygen (O2)? Don't be confused, air and oxygen are different gases.

SCIENTIFIC FACTS can be very disappointing.

Pumping air with 1 air pump, with 1 air stone always delivers < 21% oxygen.

Pumping air with 2 air pumps, with 5 air stones always delivers < 21% oxygen.

Pumping air with 3 big air pumps, with 10 air stones always delivers < 21% oxygen.

Ambient air is always < 21% oxygen regardless of how much air you pump or how many air stones you pump that air through.

If you really want to deliver more oxygen, well, that requires supplemental oxygen administration (oxygen enrichment 24% O2 or greater).

The oxygen concentration in ambient air is seriously limited, air is always a mixture of gases and the greatest volume is always 80% Nitrogen.

More air does not mean more oxygen contrary to very popular misconception.


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## rkymtnman (Jul 26, 2017)

^^^^^ disregard Biff Loman. He's a salesman for O2Grow. their products are so shitty they can't afford to pay to be an advertiser on this site so he relentlessly tries to plug them for free. And after you read a few of his posts, you'll realize he's quite an asshole to others on this site.


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## dirtWeevil (Jul 26, 2017)

power your stones with an oxygen concentrator perhaps? An old buddy of mine had two of them he used for glass blowing to save cash on o2 for his small torches. I'm sure they cost a bit but he was no money bags so who knows


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## WeedFreak78 (Jul 26, 2017)

Order a bag of ladybugs and introduce them to that plant a few days to a week before you bring it in. They're voracious little hunters and will clean out any unwanted pests.


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## J Henry (Jul 26, 2017)

dirtWeevil said:


> power your stones with an oxygen concentrator perhaps? An old buddy of mine had two of them he used for glass blowing to save cash on o2 for his small torches. I'm sure they cost a bit but he was no money bags so who knows


This is secret stuff so don't tell. Testing the DO saturation in a DWC grow containing root balls and beneficial microbes like in a CC recirculating system exposes the stark failure (to oxygenate) of the O2 Grow oxygenator big time. You would never know this unless you actually tested the DO through the rez water and not many do this at all. The DO meter does not lie.

The O2 Grow oxygenator does not generate enough of that pure 100% oxygen to insure minimal safe oxygenation continuously and DO for the last few plants in the CC circulation system is very low because most of the oxygen has been consumed by plants and microbes. 1st in line from the emitter get the most DO. If the emitter is placed in chilled rez water, it does not run as often and when it does not run, there is no electrolysis, no O2 production... a catch 22 for chilling water when using the O2 Grow oxygenator.

And, there are other excellent, dependable, reliable O2 sources, like PSA oxygen generators…

Where to buy them at great prices.

Many Mom and Pop Durable Medical Companies (DME Oxygen Supply Companies ) are going out of business by the droves in the US now. They are selling their rental oxygen concentrators with low hour usage cheap… $75 - $100 less than 500 hours use.

Also, many geriatric COPD patients die every day and families sell their O2 concentrators ASAP just to get the equipment out of the house and out of sight - $25 - $50 you come and get it today.

Do a Google search, put a wanted ad in the Green Sheet or on the internet net “want to buy good used oxygen concentrator.”

And there are other types of supplemental oxygenating equipment available that are inexpensive, perfectly quiet and operate other than PSA Oxygen Concentrators too.


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## dirtWeevil (Jul 26, 2017)

J Henry said:


> This is secret stuff so don't tell. Testing the DO saturation in a DWC grow containing root balls and beneficial microbes like in a CC recirculating system exposes the stark failure (to oxygenate) of the O2 Grow oxygenator big time. You would never know this unless you actually tested the DO through the rez water and not many do this at all. The DO meter does not lie.
> 
> The O2 Grow oxygenator does not generate enough of that pure 100% oxygen to insure minimal safe oxygenation continuously and DO for the last few plants in the CC circulation system is very low because most of the oxygen has been consumed by plants and microbes. 1st in line from the emitter get the most DO. If the emitter is placed in chilled rez water, it does not run as often and when it does not run, there is no electrolysis, no O2 production... a catch 22 for chilling water when using the O2 Grow oxygenator.
> 
> ...


i have no knowledge of the product you speak of, i was referring to medical devices like you mentioned at the end. The ones my buddy had were medical, probably from Craigslist


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## JSB99 (Jul 26, 2017)

With my budget, I could 
a. Build my entire grow, including a space for mothers and clones
or
b. Buy an oxygen generator

LOL

Just a joke. I don't know how much they are. Probably expensive though.


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## JSB99 (Jul 26, 2017)

Got some things done:

Secured the pump manifold and added the external drain pipe






I relocated the air pump. I knew these got warm, but I didn't know it would be that warm! So I mounted it up towards the ceiling, then directed the tent's exhaust to blow right on it. Now it's cool to the touch. Another huge benefit is that the air leaving the pump is cooler. Before, the tube was really warm, and I assumed that might have an effect on the air leaving the airstones. Plus, mounting it further away gives the air more time to cool down before it reaches its airstone. It's also a lot more quiet.






A little more organizing. Moved the closet's fan controller outside of the closet. It was inconvenient.






I had two small pumps in the closet for the tubs, and they were really warming up the closet. What I did was remove the pumps and run air lines from the air manifold in the tent to the tubs. Works awesome! However, I was planning on only using four of the eight outputs for the buckets. With all eight outputs being used, it's going to drop the pressure some. I may eventually go up in size a little.

I cut the air line just outside the tubs and added barbs to reconnect them. This makes it easy to move the tubs out of the closet. The top is just temporary veg until my UnderCurrent is set up. They have some decent roots going so I've got them in a tub with 1/8 GH nutes. Bottom are clones with tap water at different stages.






It's a little difficult seeing the 4 x 1/4" lines going from the tent to the closet.


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## JSB99 (Jul 26, 2017)

I was just thinking about what I said regarding warm air going to the airstones. Since the air is compressed, it probably leaves the airstones fairly cool.

I could test this by walking over to my grow room and opening a valve on the manifold, but I'm eating lunch.


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## rkymtnman (Jul 26, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Since the air is compressed, it probably leaves the airstones fairly cool.


opposite. compressed air is warmer. my airpump used to get almost too hot to touch. i actually tried putting it in a dorm fridge to keep it cooler. then i went with waterfalls instead of airstones


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## JSB99 (Jul 26, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> opposite. compressed air is warmer. my airpump used to get almost too hot to touch. i actually tried putting it in a dorm fridge to keep it cooler. then i went with waterfalls instead of airstones


I might not have said that correctly. Compressed air is warmer, but as it decompresses, it chills (think of a refrigerator compressor). This is just a theory though. You may be right.

I created a waterfall that jets multiple streams into the controller, but I didn't want to rely on that being the only producer of DO. It may be overkill, but as stated multiple times by many people, "You cannot go large enough on an air pump."


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## JSB99 (Jul 26, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> my airpump used to get almost too hot to touch. i actually tried putting it in a dorm fridge to keep it cooler. then i went with waterfalls instead of airstones


BTW, moving air across the cooling fins is probably more effective at removing heat than putting it into a fridge. Objects create a layer of insulation between themselves and the environment they're in. By blowing air across the surface, you are constantly removing that layer and allowing the environment temps to effect the actual surface. That's how a convection oven works. All it is, is a fan that blows the air around, but the result is that it cooks in half the time.

Like I was saying previously, with the exhaust fan blowing directly on it, it stays cool enough that you'd think it was off.


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## rkymtnman (Jul 26, 2017)

you'll like that waterfall. keeps the nutes mixed and creates way more DO than airstones.

keeping the airpump outside the tent is good. but yeah, the air coming out of that airpump wont' have enough time to cool before it gets to the stones. the tubing is not a good conductor. if they were in copper air lines, then it would cool down alot.


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## rkymtnman (Jul 26, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> BTW, moving air across the cooling fins is probably more effective at removing heat than putting it into a fridge.


probably so. i was being cheap and tried to cool down my res by sucking in cold air from the fridge. then i sucked it up and bought a chiller. lol.


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## JSB99 (Jul 26, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> you'll like that waterfall. keeps the nutes mixed and creates way more DO than airstones.
> 
> keeping the airpump outside the tent is good. but yeah, the air coming out of that airpump wont' have enough time to cool before it gets to the stones. the tubing is not a good conductor. if they were in copper air lines, then it would cool down alot.


So just having a waterfall is enough so that you don't need airstones? Wow!


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## rkymtnman (Jul 26, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> So just having a waterfall is enough so that you don't need airstones? Wow!


that's all i used in my rdwc. was it you that i put up a pic of the kitchen sink sprayer that i copied? that thing would crush it with DO with all those high pressure jets hitting the water surface.


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## JSB99 (Jul 26, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> probably so. i was being cheap and tried to cool down my res by sucking in cold air from the fridge. then i sucked it up and bought a chiller. lol.


Yeah, a chiller is on my Christmas list. But one more month and it starts cooling off quit a bit, which may be enough.

I removed the carpet, leaving the plywood floor. I was thinking that if temps aren't staying cool enough, I could remove an area of insulation, under the floor, below the buckets. Just thinking aloud.


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## rkymtnman (Jul 26, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Yeah, a chiller is on my Christmas list. But one more month and it starts cooling off quit a bit, which may be enough.
> 
> I removed the carpet, leaving the plywood floor. I was thinking that if temps aren't staying cool enough, I could remove an area of insulation, under the floor, below the buckets. Just thinking aloud.


if you are in CO, i'll sell you mine. lol. 

one thing that would help is to get some panda film (black and white poly) and put covers over your tubs with the white side up. will reflect a lot of the heat from your grow light.


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## JSB99 (Jul 26, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> was it you that i put up a pic of the kitchen sink sprayer that i copied?


Sure was 

It was from what you had come up with that I made my own. The idea was to use many small holes under pressure to spray jets. It works REALLY well! Love the sound too  Makes me feel like I'm down by the river.


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## rkymtnman (Jul 26, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Sure was
> 
> It was from what you had come up with that I made my own. The idea was to use many small holes under pressure to spray jets. It works REALLY well! Love the sound too  Makes me feel like I'm down by the river.


yep! kinda makes you have to take a piss too! lol.


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## JSB99 (Jul 26, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> one thing that would help is to get some panda film (black and white poly) and put covers over your tubs with the white side up. will reflect a lot of the heat from your grow light.


Great idea! I'll do that!

I'm in OR, but I was stationed at Carson, and my daughter's stationed at Pederson. Is it still as much of a trip to you to be able to grow weed in your yard legally, as it is for me? You were a couple years ahead of us. Still weird, but so cool!


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## JSB99 (Jul 26, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> yep! kinda makes you have to take a piss too! lol.


LOL, I was going to say that too


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## JSB99 (Jul 26, 2017)

Next step:

Tapping into the bathroom's wet wall (behind the bedroom door) to provide water to the room and the 30 gallon reservoir with a float valve.


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## JSB99 (Jul 26, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Next step:
> 
> Tapping into the bathroom's wet wall (behind the bedroom door) to provide water to the room and the 30 gallon reservoir with a float valve.


*Correction:*
Smoke some weed, THEN tap into the bathroom's wet wall (behind the bedroom door) to provide water to the room and the 30 gallon reservoir with a float valve.


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## rkymtnman (Jul 26, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I'm in OR, but I was stationed at Carson,


no shit? i was a DoD contractor out there for a few years. small world, huh? 

it is nice to not have to buy weed anymore. don't know if you are a fan of South Park, but the episode where Randy goes into a dispensary for the first time still makes me chuckle. i was that way for about the first year i was a medical patient.

i only grow indoors because of the short growing season. and less chance of bugs etc.


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## JSB99 (Jul 26, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> no shit? i was a DoD contractor out there for a few years. small world, huh?


No doubt  I was stationed there from 90-92, but been back plenty of times.



rkymtnman said:


> don't know if you are a fan of South Park


LMAO! Not sure if you noticed my profile pic or not  That's from this season's episodes. Love SP! 

20 years! Talk about a show with legs! Plenty of material out there to keep them going LOL. "Medicinal Fried Chicken" is the one you're talking about. 



rkymtnman said:


> i only grow indoors because of the short growing season. and less chance of bugs etc.


I hear ya. I hate bringing my plant inside but right now it's a necessity. After this, I'll only grow outside during the Summer, and the rest indoors. We've got a short season as well, but the pharmers I know pull lbs off their outside plants each year. Lots cheaper for the electric bill, that's for sure.


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## rkymtnman (Jul 26, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> "Medicinal Fried Chicken" i


putting his nuts in the microwave was classic. 

i'm actually only an hour from south park/ fairplay colorado. 

duh! how'd i not notice that?? oops. i was too busy looking at the 2 liter sized cola. 
i still think the best tv is south park, seinfeld, family guy, simpsons, american dad. hahaha.


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## JSB99 (Jul 26, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> putting his nuts in the microwave was classic.
> 
> i'm actually only an hour from south park/ fairplay colorado.
> 
> ...


All good shows


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## JSB99 (Jul 26, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> ...i was too busy looking at the 2 liter sized cola.


Those are actually 2 different colas during the same grow. I had to fight to keep them below the light. Super Silver Haze is my kryptonite. Knocks me on my ass harder than any other! Really hard to control height growing inside though.

I'd be up for the challenge again though


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## WeedFreak78 (Jul 26, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I might not have said that correctly. Compressed air is warmer, but as it decompresses, it chills (think of a refrigerator compressor). This is just a theory though. You may be right.
> 
> I created a waterfall that jets multiple streams into the controller, but I didn't want to rely on that being the only producer of DO. It may be overkill, but as stated multiple times by many people, "You cannot go large enough on an air pump."


I used an air chiller you hook to compressed air in the machine shop that'll frost over most metals. We used it for cooling cutting tools. It's called a vortex tube, they're petty cool.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_tube

I've thought about using one too cool, I have 200gal of air in my garage, I just don't know if running my compressor to maintain would be more efficient than a chiller.


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## OldMedUser (Jul 26, 2017)

Air always comes out of a compressor hot. It's the same principle that diesel engines use to work. They compress a volume of air 16 - 20X so it heats up enough to ignite the fine mist of fuel injected into the cylinder at it's peak compression. If your nutes are chilled then the heat from the air won't be enough to make any real difference but in an uncooled system could add a couple degrees to the load.

Routing the air through copper tubing to the splitter could cool it a bit but hardly enough to make a difference I would think. A chiller of some kind is best overall to keep nutes at a nice steady temp.

When I construct my new grow space I'll build it so that incoming air flows across the floor space along the length of it and keep the tubs cooler before it gets mixed in with the ambient air the plants live in. I'm pretty sure it'll work well enough that I won't need to use a chiller for 4 x 50L tubs.

Was in the city today and shopped for titanium white paint to do my grow room rather than use panda film but couldn't find any. I guess I'll just use the panda as I've had a roll of it sitting here for 5 years.


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## J Henry (Jul 27, 2017)

When trying and hoping to insuring minimal safe oxygenation, then the element O2 is the point. There often many problems trying to insure enough oxygen O2 using air, ambient air (water falls), compressed air, air venture, air pumps, air bubblers, hot air bubbles, cold air bubbles…

Limited by air, jewelers and plumbers torched would not produce enough heat, welders can't cut iron, rockets can't escape gravity, patients would die in hospitals without pure 100% oxygen, fighter pilots could not fly, climbers could not crest Mt. Everest although the ambient O2 at the crest is also slightly less than 21% O2 too.

Why? Because when oxygen O2 is the point the limiting factor of using air is air containg very little oxygen O2 which is always less than 20% O2.

FACT: Mother Nature has got you by el cahones!

Doesn’t matter how much air you pump or bubble or blow because ambient air contains less than 21% O2 (hot air or cold air makes no difference, the O2 % is constant and fixed. If oxygen O2 is the point of the exercise, then all the 80% Nitrogen gas you’re pumping with your big air pumps can suffocate root balls and Bennies or people too. Root ball suffocation causes root death and root rot inviting fungal outbreaks that happen from time to time in DWC pot grows. All this carelessly caused by low oxygen in the rez water. This is not caused by "low air" you know.

So buying bigger air pumps and pump more does what?

Thinking scientifically and soberly, well, that will add more air.

Stoned-out thinking while in a drugged stupor, well, more adding more air will add more oxygen (O2) because air and elemental oxygen (O2) are the same gas aren't they.

Do the math and see - Pump 400% more air with a jumbo air pump and that will make 100% oxygen because air is 1/5 pure oxygen and 4/5 pure Nitrogen


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## WeedFreak78 (Jul 27, 2017)

J Henry said:


> When trying and hoping to insuring minimal safe oxygenation, then the element O2 is the point. There often many problems trying to insure enough oxygen O2 using air, ambient air (water falls), compressed air, air venture, air pumps, air bubblers, hot air bubbles, cold air bubbles…
> 
> Limited by air, jewelers and plumbers torched would not produce enough heat, welders can't cut iron, rockets can't escape gravity, patients would die in hospitals without pure 100% oxygen, fighter pilots could not fly, climbers could not crest Mt. Everest although the ambient O2 at the crest is also slightly less than 21% O2 too.
> 
> ...


I don't care about the repercussions, it's now my mission to rid this forum, and hopefully the earth, of your bullshit.

GO FUCKING KILL YOURSELF. DRINK BLEACH, STAB AN OUTLET WITH A FORK, THEN SUCK START A SHOTGUN. Is that clear enough?


----------



## J Henry (Jul 27, 2017)

A Freak us really scary.... no?


----------



## rkymtnman (Jul 27, 2017)

J Henry said:


> Stoned-out thinking while in a drugged stupor,


and yet we are still smart enough to realize that O2Grow products are overpriced pieces of shit. if they really worked, EVERY commercial hydroponics grower would use them. 

another fail on this thread Biff Loman.


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## zypheruk (Jul 27, 2017)

J Henry is there any chance you can actually post a link of your cannabis grow using the product you keep talking about, if you can't provide that then I think it's time for you to fuck off in a nice way.


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## rkymtnman (Jul 27, 2017)

zypheruk said:


> J Henry is there any chance you can actually post a link of your cannabis grow using the product you keep talking about, if you can't provide that then I think it's time for you to fuck off in a nice way.


he doesn't grow. and he makes fun of stoners. 

yet he's the dumbass who actually uses his real name on a cannabis growing site.


----------



## OldMedUser (Jul 27, 2017)

Well, he is almost correct about oxygen levels tho off a wee bit. Air at sea level is about 21% O2, 78% N with the rest being water vapour, Argon, CO2 and traces of everything else. Once water is saturated with air the only way to increase the O2 level is to use air that has a higher percentage of O2 to displace the N and other gases.

I've often thought about doing that by keeping the air pump in a box that I feed oxygen into from a welding tank at a measured rate with a flow gauge. Initial cost is high to buy/rent the tank of O2 but a full tank should last for a long time as long as one is careful about metering it out properly.

I used to use one 12" airstone with a small pump for each tub then after a pump failure started using a dual outlet pump and two stones for redundancy in case one side failed I would always have at least one running. A dual outlet aquarium air pump has two separate pumps so one can fail while the other one still pumps fine. When running two tubs I'd have one line from each dual outlet pump going to each tub and each pump plugged into a different circuit in case a breaker blew at least one pump would still supply air to one stone in each tub. In the event of a power failure lasting longer than a day I'd stir in some 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide. I did that for a week once and the plants survived just fine tho it taught me to pay the f'n electric bill before they cut me off.


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## rkymtnman (Jul 27, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> I've often thought about doing that by keeping the air pump in a box that I feed oxygen into from a welding tank at a measured rate with a flow gauge. Initial cost is high to buy/rent the tank of O2 but a full tank should last for a long time as long as one is careful about metering it out properly.


here's what i think the problem will be with that idea.

it will oversaturate your grow area with O2 and slow down photosynthesis because of even less CO2 in the grow area. 
if you could isolate your res from the grow area, it should work.


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## OldMedUser (Jul 27, 2017)

All the O2 would go thru the airstones and wouldn't make one bit of difference to the air the plants breathe. I'm talking about adding a metered amount of O2 to the air pump not flooding the room with it.

Try thinking before you type once in a while.


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## rkymtnman (Jul 27, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> All the O2 would go thru the airstones and wouldn't make one bit of difference to the air the plants breathe. I'm talking about adding a metered amount of O2 to the air pump not flooding the room with it.
> 
> Try thinking before you type once in a while.


how wouldn't it affect the grow room air? if the roots don't use the excess O2, any extra saturates teh grow room.

ps. you aren't very smart are you?


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## OldMedUser (Jul 27, 2017)

What part of metering the O2 don't you get?

The little that goes into the air won't affect the CO2 levels enough to make any difference at all.

It's like thinking that my sitting in the grow room will produce enough CO2 to help the plants grow faster.


----------



## Johnei (Jul 27, 2017)

I don't know why, but I just got this idea that J Henry should fart into a 2L bottle, (shove it past sphincter for a tight seal of course) then quickly put it to his nose and inhale deeply.


JSB99 said:


> So just having a waterfall is enough so that you don't need airstones? Wow!


Yes, definitely. The higher the drop the better.


----------



## rkymtnman (Jul 27, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> The little that goes into the air won't affect the CO2 levels enough to make any difference at all.


then the little bit extra you are adding to the roots won't make any difference at all.

so your big idea is to add O2 so that the air into the airpump is 21.5% instead of 21%?? wow. earthshaking theory.


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## WeedFreak78 (Jul 27, 2017)

Well fuck it. Let's introduce some actual science about supersaturation.
From wiki:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_saturation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersaturation

*Oxygen saturation*

Measuring the dissolved oxygen through a multi-parameter photometer
*Oxygen saturation* (symbol *SO2*) is a relative measure of the concentration of oxygen that is dissolved or carried in a given medium as a proportion of the maximal concentration that can be dissolved in that medium. It can be measured with a dissolved oxygen probe such as an oxygen sensor or an optode in liquid media, usually water. The standard unit of oxygen saturation is percent (%).

It is possible for stagnant water to become somewhat supersaturated with oxygen (i.e. reach more than 100% saturation) either because of the presence of photosynthetic aquatic oxygen producers or because of a slow equilibration after a change of atmospheric conditions.[2]

*Supersaturation*

*Supersaturation* is a state of a solution that contains more of the dissolved material than could be dissolved by the solventunder normal circumstances. It can also refer to a vapor of a compound that has a higher (partial) pressure than the vapor pressure of that compound.

Koi raising website:
http://smartkoi.com/Science/Supersaturation/supersaturation.html

Water contains Nitrogen, Oxygen, Carbon dioxide and other gases. Total Pressure of these dissolved gases is equal to the sum of partial pressures of all gases dissolved in water.

*PTDG* = pO2 + pN2 + pCO2 + pH2O + p…

Where:

*PTDG *= Total Dissolved Gas Pressure
pO2 = partial pressure of Oxygen
pN2 = partial pressure of Nitrogen
pCO2 = partial pressure of Carbon dioxide
pH2O = partial pressure of water vapor
p … = partial pressure of all other dissolved gases like hydrogen sulfide and methane

The total amount of gas dissolved in water = The difference between sum of partial pressure of all gases in air or Barometric pressure and sum of partial pressure of all gases in water. This can also be written as Percent saturation of the gases in water.

or *PTDG(%) *= (PTDG / PBP) x 100

where PTDG(%) = Total Gas Pressure expressed as percent saturation
PBP = Barometric Pressure at water surface

When the partial pressure of a gas in water equals to its partial pressure in the air, there is no net movement from air to water or vice versa. Then, the gases in air are said to be in equilibrium with the dissolved gases in the water is in equilibrium with air:

If the partial pressure of a gas in water is less than its partial pressure in the air, then the water is under-saturated. So, that gas will move from air to water.

If the partial pressure of a gas is less in the air than its partial pressure in water, then water is supersaturated with that gas. The gas will diffuse from water to atmosphere.

It is possible for water to be under-saturated with one gas but supersaturated with another..

In supersaturated water, the gases that are supersaturated are always diffusing into the atmosphere in the form of bubbles.


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## WeedFreak78 (Jul 27, 2017)

Photosynthetic O2 producing bacteria in stagnant water. Maybe that's the key to organic hydro, stagnant res with that bacteria for O2 production?

Interesting.....


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## Johnei (Jul 27, 2017)

What will those bacteria eat?
Their food I am thinking, is same as bad stuff.
Will be hard to 'isolate' only certain types
Interesting thought, regardless.


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## Johnei (Jul 27, 2017)

Got me thinking about how the earth transformed from co2 rich to more oxygen rich from these photosynthetic algae family type microbes. There may be a way, with extreme experimentation who knows. But my next thought is they might take over, too much. And would have to filter them out only grabbing the o2 rich water without them getting to the plants.
hmmmm....


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## WeedFreak78 (Jul 27, 2017)

This abstract says lower O2 levels increase root mass. It would figure if thers ample O2 the roots dont need to search it out. Maybe there's benefits to running minimal O2 levels initially to promote root growth.

This line is interesting, more height without weight. They stretch more. 

"Almost all the measured growth parameters (fresh and dry weights of root, stem, and leaf, leaf area, stem diameter) were significantly reduced in plants grown in the 40 mg L−1 treatment compared to plants in the lower level of DO treatments, except that the plant height increased with the increasing DO concentration."

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304423807001203

*An upper limit for elevated root zone dissolved oxygen concentration for tomato*
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.scienta.2007.03.011Get rights and content

*Abstract*
It is well understood that insufficient oxygen within plant root zones can greatly diminish plant productivity. However, little is known about the effect of elevated root zone oxygen concentrations. Tomato (_Lycopersicon lycopersicum_ Mill., cv. Trust) seedlings were grown in nutrient solutions containing dissolved oxygen (DO) concentration ranging from 5.3 to 40 mg L−1 for 4 weeks. There were no visible symptoms observed on the leaves or stems in any of the treatments. Leaf chlorophyll content was higher in the 40 mg L−1 treatment than with 20 and 30 mg L−1 DO treatments. Two weeks from the start of the experiment, roots in the 40 mg L−1 treatment exhibited stunted growth, became thicker, and had fewer side and fine roots compared to roots in the lower levels of DO treatment. Almost all the measured growth parameters (fresh and dry weights of root, stem, and leaf, leaf area, stem diameter) were significantly reduced in plants grown in the 40 mg L−1 treatment compared to plants in the lower level of DO treatments, except that the plant height increased with the increasing DO concentration. Root respiration increased linearly with increasing DO concentration; however, there was no effect on leaf net CO2 exchange rate. It is suggested that it was safe to enrich root zone DO to as high as 30 mg L−1, although the growth benefit was minor by increasing DO from ambient air saturated level (∼8.5 mg L−1) to 30 mg L−1. Higher than 30 mg L−1 could cause reduction in tomato plant growth


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## WeedFreak78 (Jul 27, 2017)

Johnei said:


> What will those bacteria eat?
> Their food I am thinking, is same as bad stuff.
> Will be hard to 'isolate' only certain types
> Interesting thought, regardless.


Just need to figure out cultivation parameters. I wouldn't think it would be much harder than keeping any other beneficial herd going. If it's adding enough o2, you might be able to run other bennies along side of it. I found a few articles about stagnant pound ecologies I'm going to look at.


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## Johnei (Jul 27, 2017)

I have been reading lately about anaerobic bacteria that live inside the soil outdoors and provide benefits to plants, because soil for sure is not a super oxygented place for microbes all the time and plants still flourish. Rain brings oxygen as it leaches through pulling atmospheric gases behind it but there is so much anerobic life in there. I want to understand how they effect plants in beneficial way, because a lot of research is leaning to this showing that not all are destructive/pathogenic etc. Still need to read more. Basically I don' know shit about it right now.


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## WeedFreak78 (Jul 27, 2017)

This is a PDF

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.indiana.edu/~clp/documents/water_column/Water_Col_V23N1.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjX7ObUmKrVAhUF8z4KHTvGB4cQFggpMAI&usg=AFQjCNEwo1L-KW9eg6sNJIFU9iLyNo_SHQ

Oxygen –The Most Important
Water Quality Parameter?

~ Bill Jones
I’m often asked, “If you could sample only one thing on a lake, what
would it be?” For me, the answer would be dissolved oxygen. Dissolved
oxygen (DO), the measure of gaseous oxygen in water, is necessary for good
water quality. It is essential for gilled fish and insects, and influences many
different biological and chemical processes in lakes and streams.
Oxygen Properties and Dynamics
The concentration of dissolved oxygen in unpolluted fresh water
can vary greatly and is influenced by temperature, atmospheric pressure,
and salinity. For example, cold water can contain more oxygen than can
warmer water (Table 1).
Table 1. Oxygen saturation in fresh water.
Temperature (0C) Temperature (0F) Solubility (mg/L)
0 32 14.62
10 50 11.29
20 68 9.09
30 86 7.56
Oxygen (O2) enters lakes from the atmosphere through diffusion and
mixing by waves. Although diffusion from the atmosphere is a relatively
slow process, it is responsible for most of the dissolved oxygen in our lakes.
Oxygen is also produced by algae and aquatic plants as a by-product of
photosynthesis as the following process shows:
Carbon dioxide + Water + Nutrients + Light Glucose + Oxygen
Photosynthesis converts the light energy of the sun to chemical energy
that living organisms can use for life. It is said that life on Earth as we
know it would not have been possible were it not for all the excess oxygen
produced by algae in the “primordial soup” that existed on early Earth
millions of years ago.
Oxygen in lakes is consumed by:
• Respiration of fish and aquatic organisms (much like we consume
oxygen when we breathe)
• Respiration of aerobic bacteria and microbes as they decompose
dead organic materials (leaves, twigs, algae, fish, etc.) both in the
water and on the lake bottom.
• Chemical reactions, for example, the reduction of nitrate (NO3) to
ammonia (NH4) in the hypolimnion.
In respiration, the reverse process occurs where organisms use the
chemical energy formed by photosynthesis to power their bodies:
Glucose + Oxygen Carbon dioxide + Water + ENERGY

When the concentration of
DO in water is in equilibrium with
oxygen in the atmosphere, it is
called 100 percent saturated and
occurs at the concentrations shown
in Table 1. DO in biologically
productive (eutrophic) lakes can
become supersaturated when oxygen
is produced by algae or rooted
aquatic plants more quickly than it
can escape into the atmosphere. In
some cases, the DO concentration
can build up to greater than 200
percent saturation (Figure 1). When
DO concentrations exceed 110
percent saturation, harm may come
to certain fish. Excess dissolved
oxygen can lead, in rare cases, to
“gas bubble disease” in fish where
the oxygen bubbles or emboli can
block the flow of blood through
blood vessels.
On the other hand, in
biologically productive, thermally
stratified lakes with an abundance
of decaying organic material,
the oxygen consumption by
aerobic bacteria can use up much
of the available oxygen in the
hypolimnion, leading to under-
saturated conditions. If bacterial
respiration is great enough, anoxic
conditions may result. Limnologists
consider DO concentrations of less
than 1.0 mg/L to be anoxic.


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## WeedFreak78 (Jul 27, 2017)

That last link and the Koi raising link seem to show a correlation between waters nutrient content and DO levels. Is supersaturation possible with the nutrient levels we run or is it limited? I'm going to see if i can find out how synthetic fertilizers offgas.


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## WeedFreak78 (Jul 27, 2017)

Nanobubbles can get to that "optimal" 30mg/L mentioned earlier. 

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0065339

*Oxygen and Air Nanobubble Water Solution Promote the Growth of Plants, Fishes, and Mice*

*Abstract*
Nanobubbles (<200 nm in diameter) have several unique properties such as long lifetime in liquid owing to its negatively charged surface, and its high gas solubility into the liquid owing to its high internal pressure. They are used in variety of fields including diagnostic aids and drug delivery, while there are no reports assessing their effects on the growth of lives. Nanobubbles of air or oxygen gas were generated using a nanobubble aerator (BUVITAS; Ligaric Company Limited, Osaka, Japan). Brassica campestris were cultured hydroponically for 4 weeks within air-nanobubble water or within normal water. Sweetfish (for 3 weeks) and rainbow trout (for 6 weeks) were kept either within air-nanobubble water or within normal water. Finally, 5 week-old male DBA1/J mice were bred with normal free-chaw and free-drinking either of oxygen-nanobubble water or of normal water for 12 weeks. Oxygen-nanobubble significantly increased the dissolved oxygen concentration of water as well as concentration/size of nanobubbles which were relatively stable for 70 days. Air-nanobubble water significantly promoted the height (19.1 vs. 16.7 cm; P<0.05), length of leaves (24.4 vs. 22.4 cm; P<0.01), and aerial fresh weight (27.3 vs. 20.3 g; P<0.01) of Brassica campestris compared to normal water. Total weight of sweetfish increased from 3.0 to 6.4 kg in normal water, whereas it increased from 3.0 to 10.2 kg in air-nanobubble water. In addition, total weight of rainbow trout increased from 50.0 to 129.5 kg in normal water, whereas it increased from 50.0 to 148.0 kg in air-nanobubble water. Free oral intake of oxygen-nanobubble water significantly promoted the weight (23.5 vs. 21.8 g; P<0.01) and the length (17.0 vs. 16.1 cm; P<0.001) of mice compared to that of normal water. We have demonstrated for the first time that oxygen and air-nanobubble water may be potentially effective tools for the growth of lives.

*Results*
Oxygen concentration was 7.7 mg/L in original normal distilled water, whereas it increased to 31.7 mg/L in oxygen-nanobubble water immediately after running nanobubble aerator with 100 L water for 30 min (Figure 2). Figure 3 shows the chronological change and distribution of number and diameter of air-bubbles in water after generation. Approximately 70% of the generated air-bubbles were smaller than 2 µm in diameter immediately after generation. Moreover, even 2.5 months after generation, approximately 60% still remained smaller than 2 µm in diameter.



Download:

PPT
PowerPoint slide
PNG
larger image
TIFF
original image
Figure 2. Sequential dissolved oxygen concentration (DO) in oxygen-nanobubble mixed water.
Figure 1 with 100 L water. Oxygen concentration was measured sequentially by Winkler's method.



https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0065339.g002



Download:

PPT
PowerPoint slide
PNG
larger image
TIFF
original image
Figure 3. Sequential changes of number and diameter of generated air-nanobubbles.
Figure 1, sequential changes of number and diameter of generated air-nanobubbles were analyzed by Multisizer 3 (Beckman Coulter, Inc., Miami, FL, USA).



https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0065339.g003


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## JSB99 (Jul 27, 2017)

WeedFreak78 said:


> I don't care about the repercussions, it's now my mission to rid this forum, and hopefully the earth, of your bullshit.
> 
> GO FUCKING KILL YOURSELF. DRINK BLEACH, STAB AN OUTLET WITH A FORK, THEN SUCK START A SHOTGUN. Is that clear enough?


LMAO!


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## J Henry (Jul 27, 2017)

The Freak is tuned up now, buzzing like an air pump wired directly into 220V A/C electrical circuit!

Great stuff for growers interested in tomatoes and DO, fish and DO is interesting, dissolved oxygen in lakes, lettuce and DO, gas supersaturation... and Nano Bubbles. 

Nano bubbles are special, actually very interesting. They remain in the water column for weeks vs. floating to the surface leaving the water. Nano bubble generators vs air bubblers. Electrolysis of water also produces oxygen Nano bubbles and hydrogen Nano bubbles (1:2 respectively) so claims the O2 Grow sales Oxygenator literature. 

What are Nano bubbled? http://www.nanobubbles.com/nanobubbles-2/what-are-nanobubbles/?doing_wp_cron=1501191364.3389921188354492187500#.WXpcwzaWyvR 

Johnie has got to be a dirt farmer, he’s even learning about “anaerobic bacteria that live inside the soil outdoors and provide benefits to plants, because soil for sure is not a super oxygented place for microbes all the time and plants still flourish.” Atta boy Johnie, learning the science trumps luck, endless experimenting and hope in the 21st century.

Ever wondered just what the biological oxygen demand is for aerobic organisms in a DWC or how much dissolved these organisms consume and require to be healthy./ Well, thinks about it because they consume a considerable amount of dissolved oxygen continuously 24/7 as they grow and multiply.

Some of you may be or may not be interested is a little cannabis science here, especially those that lack e a firm grip on vital importance of dissolved oxygen in DWC for rhizomes and beneficial aerobic micro microbes.

“*So how much dissolved oxygen do you need in the root system and how do you achieve that desired level? Hayes says the first step is getting a dissolved oxygen meter and probe to measure your baseline. The typical dissolved oxygen probe can detect from 20 up to 50 ppm and up to 500% saturation. That is a critical first step and tool in understanding dissolved oxygen in the root system. Another important tool to have is an oxidation-reduction potential meter (ORP meter), which indicates the level of residual oxidizer left in the water.”*

March 29, 2017 https://www.cannabisindustryjournal.com/tag/grow/

*Understanding Dissolved Oxygen in Cannabis Cultivation*

_By Aaron G. Biros _

Oxygen plays an integral role in plant photosynthesis, respiration and transpiration. Photosynthesis requires water from the roots making its way up the plant via capillary action, which is where oxygen’s job comes in. For both water and nutrient uptake, oxygen levels at the root tips and hairs is a controlling input. A plant converts sugar from photosynthesis to ATP in the respiration process, where oxygen is delivered from the root system to the leaf and plays a direct role in the process.

Charlie Hayes has a degree in biochemistry and spent the past 17 years researching and designing water treatment processes to improve plant health. Hayes is a biochemist and owner of Advanced Treatment Technologies, a water treatment solutions provider. In a presentation at the CannaGrow conference, *Hayes discussed the various benefits of dissolved oxygen throughout the cultivation process. We sat down with Hayes to learn about the science behind improving cannabis plant production via dissolved oxygen.*

In transpiration, water evaporates from a plant’s leaves via the stomata and creates a ‘transpirational pull,’ drawing water, oxygen and nutrients from the soil or other growing medium. That process helps cool the plant down, changes osmotic pressure in cells and enables a flow of water and nutrients up from the root system, according to Hayes.

*Charlie Hayes, biochemist and owner of Advanced Treatment Technologies *

*Roots in an oxygen-rich environment can absorb nutrients more effectively. “The metabolic energy required for nutrient uptake come from root respiration using oxygen,” says Hayes. “Using high levels of oxygen can ensure more root mass, more fine root hairs and healthy root tips.” A majority of water in the plant is taken up by the fine root hairs and requires a lot of energy, and thus oxygen, to produce new cells.*

So what happens if you don’t have enough oxygen in your root system? Hayes says that can reduce water and nutrient uptake, reduce root and overall plant growth, induce wilting (even outside of heat stress) in heat stress and reduce the overall photosynthesis and glucose transfer capabilities of the plant. *Lower levels of dissolved oxygen also significantly reduce transpiration in the plant. Another effect that oxygen-deprived root systems can have is the production of ethylene, which can cause cells to collapse and make them more susceptible to disease. He says if you are having issues with unhealthy root systems, increasing the oxygen levels around the root system can improve root health. “Oxygen starved root tips can lead to a calcium shortage in the shoot,” says Hayes. “That calcium shortage is a common issue with a lack of oxygen, but in an oxygen-deprived environment, anaerobic organisms can attack the root system, which could present bigger problems.”*

*So how much dissolved oxygen do you need in the root system and how do you achieve that desired level? Hayes says the first step is getting a dissolved oxygen meter and probe to measure your baseline. The typical dissolved oxygen probe can detect from 20 up to 50 ppm and up to 500% saturation. That is a critical first step and tool in understanding dissolved oxygen in the root system. Another important tool to have is an oxidation-reduction potential meter (ORP meter), which indicates the level of residual oxidizer left in the water.*

Their treatment system includes check valves that are OSHA and fire code-compliant.

Citing research and experience from his previous work, he says that health and production improvements in cannabis plateau at the 40-45 parts-per-million (ppm) of dissolved oxygen in the root zone. But to achieve those levels, growers need to start with an even higher level of dissolved oxygen in a treatment system to deliver that 40-45 ppm to the roots. “Let’s say for example with 3 ppm of oxygen in the root tissue and 6ppm of oxygen in the surrounding soil or growing medium, higher concentrations outside of the tissue would help drive absorption for the root system membrane,” says Hayes.

Reaching that 40-45 ppm range can be difficult however and there are a couple methods of delivering dissolved oxygen. The most typical method is aeration of water using bubbling or injecting air into the water. This method has some unexpected ramifications though. Oxygen is only one of many gasses in air and those other gasses can be much more soluble in water. Paying attention to Henry’s Law is important here. Henry’s Law essentially means that the solubility of gasses is controlled by temperature, pressure and concentration. For example, Hayes says carbon dioxide is up to twenty times more soluble than oxygen. That means the longer you aerate water, the higher concentration of carbon dioxide and lower concentration of oxygen over time.

Another popular method of oxidizing water is chemically. Some growers might use hydrogen peroxide to add dissolved oxygen to a water-based solution, but that can create a certain level of phytotoxicity that could be bad for root health.

Using ozone, Hayes says, is by far the most effective method of getting dissolved oxygen in water, (because it is 12 ½ times more soluble than oxygen). But just using an ozone generator will not effectively deliver dissolved oxygen at the target levels to the root system. In order to use ozone properly, you need a treatment system that can handle a high enough concentration of ozone, mix it properly and hold it in the solution, says Hayes. “Ozone is an inherently unstable molecule, with a half-life of 15 minutes and even down to 3-5 minutes, which is when it converts to dissolved oxygen,” says Hayes. Using a patented control vessel, Hayes can use a counter-current, counter-rotational liquid vortex to mix the solution under pressure after leaving a vacuum. Their system can produce two necessary tools for growers: highly ozonized water, which can be sent through the irrigation system to effectively destroy microorganisms and resident biofilms, and water with high levels of dissolved oxygen for use in the root system.

This about Cannabis DWC DO, not Tomatoes or fish,

There’s much more info too.


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## JSB99 (Jul 27, 2017)

J Henry said:


> The Freak is tuned up now, buzzing like an air pump wired directly into 220V A/C electrical circuit!
> 
> Great stuff for growers interested in tomatoes and DO, fish and DO is interesting, dissolved oxygen in lakes, lettuce and DO, gas supersaturation... and Nano Bubbles.
> 
> ...


You're hijacking my thread, dude


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## J Henry (Jul 27, 2017)

*Topic - Which would produce more DO in a DWC*?

1st, how do you know your DO is low, unsafe? 2nd, what is your DO goal? 3rd, what DO would you like to see in your water 24/7 continuously for a few months?
... 40% DO Sat, 75% DO Sat, 90% DO sat, 100% DO sat, maybe 125% DO sat, 175% DO sat?… what DO do you want or would you like to have?

If you knew what DO actually have, it may be just fine. If the DO is low, there are ways to increase it to what ever you want the DO to be. The DO sat is always your choice.

If you are totally fixated on using ambient air as your source gas, your DO Saturation will be seriously limited by the oxygen concentration in ambient air. If you use air, it will make no difference whether you have 1 bubbler, 5 bubblers or 25 bubblers in each bucket, because air has serious limitations – see Henrys Law. The partial pressure of oxygen in ambient air at sea level is only 159 mm/kg tension + or – a mm/hg ( millimeter of mercury barometric pressure) or so..

If you really want to increase the DO, forget the air and try using a different gas with 1 bubbler a different gas like elemental oxygen (O2) or elemental Ozone (O3) and then test the DO in your water. If you want a higher DO, just increase the flow of O2 or O3 bubbling through 1 bubbler… it’s easy, ain’t nothing to it, it’s simply basic chemistry, ain’t nothing to manipulating DO Saturations if you use the right gas at 1 ATM pressure.

Try reading *Understanding Dissolved Oxygen in Cannabis Cultivation* tomorrow or in a few days when you’re fresh and bright.

*This is very important ****** “*So how much dissolved oxygen do you need in the root system and how do you achieve that desired level? Hayes says the first step is getting a dissolved oxygen meter and probe to measure your baseline. The typical dissolved oxygen probe can detect from 20 up to 50 ppm and up to 500% saturation. That is a critical first step and tool in understanding dissolved oxygen in the root system.* ****


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## JSB99 (Jul 27, 2017)

Tapped into my bathroom's water. I love Shark Bite parts, but man, they're expensive!








My 31 gallon reservoir. I've got a float valve for it. For now it'll be hooked up to the tap, but eventually I may put some RO filters in-line. The water here is really good! Probably because we get so much rain. I looked up the info at the water station and I didn't see "chloramines" as one of the chemicals. "Chloride" was listed, but not "chloramines".

Anyone think this thing will split or flex too much filled with water? My bubble cloner has a couple pieces of wood that keep the tote from flexing. It works really well. I didn't like how the lid had a hard time fitting correctly when filled with water.


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## WeedFreak78 (Jul 27, 2017)

You've lost any credibility with me long ago . Here are the lyrics to that song i posted. Pink guy STFU. I copied and pasted it in case you are deaf or something and didn't hear it. Weird how it bolded certain parts when I pasted it. 

Shut the fuck up. You're a fucking cunt, shut the fuck up. You're a fucking cunt, suck my dick. Shut the fuck up, stop being a fucking cunt, shut the fuck up, nobody even wants you here.

I just wanna let you know, you're a stupid fucking cunt. Go ahead and run your mouth pussy I don't give a fuck. You're a stupid piece of shit, you're a stupid fucking bitch. Get the fuck up off my dick.
*
Like please end your fucking life, please end your fucking life. I really gotta emhpasize, no one cares if you're alive. *You're a fucking penis hole, grab a dick and eat it whole. I need to know if you were dropped when you were just a fetus, though? You're so fucking ugly and your face is fucking foul, jeez you're so fucking loud, can you shut your fucking mouth?

Can you?

Shut the fuck up. You're a fucking cunt, shut the fuck up. You're a fucking cunt, suck my dick. Shut the fuck up, stop being a fucking cunt, shut the fuck up, nobody even wants you here.

Close your fucking mouth. You're just really fucking dense. If you hate me why you talking you don’t make no fucking sense. Got a sad life, sad life, go to fucking hell. Are you stupid or disabled man I can’t fucking tell? You're a fucking dumb shit, you don't even run shit, get the fuck out of my face and go to hell, eat a dick.

Come and catch these hands boy, come and match these hands boy, I'm not crazy I just do it all because I can boy. *I hope you fucking die in a high speed car crash. I hope you fucking fall head first and get your neck cracked. I hope you have some beautiful children that die from cancer. I hope you catch zika when your wife gets pregnant. I hope you win the lottery and die the next day, and your daughter has to see you getting lowered in your grave.*

Like ahh, ohh, that was a little dark, I'm sorry, that, that was a little dark, very poor taste.

Shut The Fuck Up!

I shouldn’t have said that.

You're a fucking cunt!

Actually no I should’ve.

Shut The Fuck Up!

I shou-I didn’t say enough..

You’re a stupid cunt suck my dick. Shut the fuck up, stop being a fucking cunt. Shut the fuck up. Nobody even wants you here.

Sorry for the highjack @JSB99. I'm done.


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## JSB99 (Jul 27, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Tapped into my bathroom's water. I love Shark Bite parts, but man, they're expensive!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bump


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## J Henry (Jul 28, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> You're hijacking my thread, dude


At the peak of this emotional crisis or forum show, the Freak does fess-up and come clean admitting that *he is the culprit that hijacked this thread* – “*Which would produce more DO in a DWC*?” Now you know who hijacked your thread, you don’t have to guess and accuse.

The Freak is clearly having an emotional crisis of sorts here or maybe or just a 4th grader clown act on the playground.

It is obvious that the forum clown has an uncontrollable temper problem like a special education 9 year old with ADS + no parental social training at home in his formative years 1-5 YO. A dysfunctional social mess so to speak.

jsb99, now you knows exactly which forum joker hijacked your thread. The hijacker calls himself the "Freak" by his own omission and guilt… So Sick’um j.

The Freak demonstrated an emotional “burned out,” seriously needs sedatives and bed rest now and says he won’t be back on this thread so I guess this FREE entertainment is over.

The Freak is really funny when he flashes and jumps off the normal social behavior edge, when he loses his emotional control and acts the fool… he makes me laugh at his aberrant social behavior when he loses all control, having a fit of rage.

I know your should not laugh at fools ,but the Freak, now he is special, a joker, comedian, simple and funny.

The Freak is no doubt a @ 1 dysfunctional forum clown and all forums need a clown to laugh at.


----------



## dstroy (Jul 28, 2017)

J Henry said:


> *Topic - Which would produce more DO in a DWC*?
> 
> 1st, how do you know your DO is low, unsafe? 2nd, what is your DO goal? 3rd, what DO would you like to see in your water 24/7 continuously for a few months?
> ... 40% DO Sat, 75% DO Sat, 90% DO sat, 100% DO sat, maybe 125% DO sat, 175% DO sat?… what DO do you want or would you like to have?
> ...



No one wants to buy your shitty chinese made product which you can only run "3 hours a day". A waterfall or venturi injector costs so much less, and you can run those 24/7 which is what the op is doing anyway.

Commercial growers use venturi injectors, or waterfalls, or other solutions that use ambient air because air is free and the electricity cost of adding a venturi injector to an already existing circulating pump is negligible. 

Shitty chinese made electrodes that need to be replaced every 18 months are not free, in fact you mark them up probably 10000% of materials cost.

Stop implying that you can't use ambient air to increase DO in water because that is exactly what commercial growers use. Why haven't they all switched to your miraculous product? Because it's a fucking shit idea and anyone with a mind for accounting would know to stay far away from something with an expected usable life of 18 months.

You can't increase DO past 100% while the shitty product you are selling isn't running. Remember, only "3 hours a day". After it shuts off, DO levels quickly drop back to equilibrium, and then dip below because the plants use oxygen.

I hope the next time you leave this forum and go elsewhere you stay there.


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## dstroy (Jul 28, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Tapped into my bathroom's water. I love Shark Bite parts, but man, they're expensive!
> 
> 
> My 31 gallon reservoir. I've got a float valve for it. For now it'll be hooked up to the tap, but eventually I may put some RO filters in-line. The water here is really good! Probably because we get so much rain. I looked up the info at the water station and I didn't see "chloramines" as one of the chemicals. "Chloride" was listed, but not "chloramines".
> ...


I wouldn't fill up that tote all the way with water. If you're concerned about floor space get a cylinder shaped reservoir, like a rain barrel or trash can. Those will hold more water and shouldn't flex if you get the heavy duty kind. I got my reservoir and lid for $44, rubbermaid brute trash can.


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## JSB99 (Jul 28, 2017)

dstroy said:


> I wouldn't fill up that tote all the way with water. If you're concerned about floor space get a cylinder shaped reservoir, like a rain barrel or trash can. Those will hold more water and shouldn't flex if you get the heavy duty kind. I got my reservoir and lid for $44, rubbermaid brute trash can.


I was thinking about a barrel. I've got the space (where I didn't think I'd have it before). I'll add that to my list. Right now it's out of budget.

Thx


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## J Henry (Jul 29, 2017)

dstroy said:


> You can't increase DO past 100% while the shitty product you are selling isn't running. Remember, only "3 hours a day". After it shuts off, DO levels quickly drop back to equilibrium, and then dip below because the plants use oxygen.
> QUOTE]
> 
> You are a real life Whistle Blower!
> ...


----------



## OldMedUser (Jul 29, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Anyone think this thing will split or flex too much filled with water? My bubble cloner has a couple pieces of wood that keep the tote from flexing. It works really well. I didn't like how the lid had a hard time fitting correctly when filled with water.


I had the same thing with the taller RubberMaid totes that hold 50L when full to working level so wrapped a double layer band of duct tape around the middle while squeezing the sides in a bit. Seemed to keep it from bulging so much tho I had run them lots of times with no problems. The lid is harder to get on but not that bad.

I have a water softener system that we haven't used in over 10 years and the salt tank from it would make a dandy rez if I ever need one.


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## JSB99 (Jul 29, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> I had the same thing with the taller RubberMaid totes that hold 50L when full to working level so wrapped a double layer band of duct tape around the middle while squeezing the sides in a bit. Seemed to keep it from bulging so much tho I had run them lots of times with no problems. The lid is harder to get on but not that bad.
> 
> I have a water softener system that we haven't used in over 10 years and the salt tank from it would make a dandy rez if I ever need one.


I had wrapped my cloner tote with a band of duct tape, like what you're talking about, but it really didn't seem to be that effective. When I added the wood rods to the outside edges, the cloner became absolutely sturdy, and didn't really add any weight.







I'll get a barrel someday. But for now, this will have to do. I'm tapped LOL


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## JSB99 (Jul 29, 2017)

Last night I did a pressure test, with success. Today, I secured the pipes. 







Reservoir:






Float valve:






Left pipe w/black valve (going from wall into bucket) is a fast-fill pipe for when I flush the system. After dumping the old water, I want to be able to fill and drain the system with tap water before filling it from the reservoir.

Right pipe/black valve (pointing straight up) is a hose attachment for a utility hose.







Reinstalled my ceiling fan. It was getting so hot in there working. The fan helps a ton.







Next I'm sealing the outlets by the controller and reservoir. I'll be tapping into an outlet on the opposite side of the wall, which is the kitchen. It's 4' high, so it'll be safe from spills and sprays.


----------



## JSB99 (Jul 30, 2017)

Covered and sealed the two outlets next to the controller and res:














Added an outlet up high:


----------



## JSB99 (Jul 30, 2017)

Final check before doing wet testing tomorrow:






2" blue feed pipe on the bottom:






M&M (Marijuana & Mint)


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## rkymtnman (Jul 31, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Bump


i prefer the black and yellow 27 gallon totes from walmart/home depot. they are way more rigid and don't flex near as much as those grey ones.


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## JSB99 (Jul 31, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> i prefer the black and yellow 27 gallon totes from walmart/home depot. they are way more rigid and don't flex near as much as those grey ones.


You talking about the hdx totes? Yeah, they're pretty tough. If it looks like it'll be a while before I can get a barrel, I might pick one of those up until I can get one. Would have gotten one initially but it wasn't in the budget.


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## rkymtnman (Jul 31, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> You talking about the hdx totes? Yeah, they're pretty tough. If it looks like it'll be a while before I can get a barrel, I might pick one of those up until I can get one. Would have gotten one initially but it wasn't in the budget.


make a few calls to some local food/beverage manufacturing companies. most of those places will give away food grade 55 gal barrels for free or just a few bucks. or check on craigslist.


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## JSB99 (Jul 31, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> make a few calls to some local food/beverage manufacturing companies. most of those places will give away food grade 55 gal barrels for free or just a few bucks. or check on craigslist.


Cool! Thanks


----------



## JSB99 (Jul 31, 2017)

Got things up and running.

I have a slow drip on one of the bulkheads, but I think it may have to do with trying two washers on each one instead of just one, like I originally tested. I also notice that I lose some power with the water pump, with the inline filter. I'd say about 20% at least. It's still pretty powerful though. I might go up a size or two at some point if this becomes an issue.

Sharing the air pump with the cloners reduces the amount of bubbles in the buckets quite a bit, but it's still producing quite a bit. I may either go up to the 110L/min pump, or use my smaller pumps for the cloners. I'll have to see.


----------



## JSB99 (Jul 31, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Got things up and running.
> 
> I have a slow drip on one of the bulkheads, but I think it may have to do with trying two washers on each one instead of just one, like I originally tested. I also notice that I lose some power with the water pump, with the inline filter. I'd say about 20% at least. It's still pretty powerful though. I might go up a size or two at some point if this becomes an issue.
> 
> Sharing the air pump with the cloners reduces the amount of bubbles in the buckets quite a bit, but it's still producing quite a bit. I may either go up to the 110L/min pump, or use my smaller pumps for the cloners. I'll have to see.




BTW, I'm using a rubber coupling to connect the 2"pipe behind the tent to the manifold in the tent. Way cheaper than a 2" union.


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## JSB99 (Jul 31, 2017)

When I was draining the system, I expected the water to be jetting out of the pipe with a little force. But it just kind of poured out and drained slowly. I noticed a big difference when I bypass the buckets and pipes, and use the pump manifold's second intake to draw the water directly from the controller bucket. The pressure and flow are probably twice as much. I expected to see significant turbulence in the buckets, but it's not noticeable. I've got 3/4" going into and out of the pump, which has 1/2" in and out. I wouldn't expect there to be any bottlenecks or anything. Is this normal? Should I be looking at something more powerful than the 400 GPH pump I've got? *This one...*

Something that didn't occur to me when putting this together is that the pump needs to be primed in order to work. I was thinking it would act like water vacuum. Any suggestions on getting the remaining water out of the buckets. I used a cup and a spare bucket. Only took about five minutes. I imagine a small pump just for this purpose would be handy.


----------



## dirtWeevil (Jul 31, 2017)

google drill pumps


----------



## Shag Pile (Jul 31, 2017)

dirtWeevil said:


> google drill pumps


Now thats a handy little gadget!


----------



## dirtWeevil (Jul 31, 2017)

i want a couple lol


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## JSB99 (Jul 31, 2017)

dirtWeevil said:


> google drill pumps


That's cool! It'll work perfect!


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## JSB99 (Jul 31, 2017)

To anyone using this thread for your own build, here's a really helpful tip: don't try to loosen/tighten the bulkheads bare handed. You'll tear up your hands in the process. Wear rubber kitchen gloves. The thicker the better. I use thick chemical gloves. they grip like crazy and make it easy to tighten the bulkheads.


----------



## JSB99 (Jul 31, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> ...I expected to see significant turbulence in the buckets, but it's not noticeable.


After checking out a few vids and doing a little reading, it looks like you don't want too big of a water pump with Under Current, and what I have will probably work fine. What do you guys/gals think? Bigger is better, or is mine okay?


----------



## Shag Pile (Aug 1, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> After checking out a few vids and doing a little reading, it looks like you don't want too big of a water pump with Under Current, and what I have will probably work fine. What do you guys/gals think? Bigger is better, or is mine okay?


Im not 100% sure but I thought if you have a pump too large you can end up with uneven water levels. The pump sucks the first buckets and gravity pushs the second buckets through to the first.


----------



## rkymtnman (Aug 1, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> After checking out a few vids and doing a little reading, it looks like you don't want too big of a water pump with Under Current, and what I have will probably work fine. What do you guys/gals think? Bigger is better, or is mine okay?


yours is fine. 

and for a previous question, wet/dry vac to empty the res also works great.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 1, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> yours is fine.
> 
> and for a previous question, wet/dry vac to empty the res also works great.


Cool! Thx!


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 1, 2017)

I posted this under "Plant Problems" but haven't gotten a hit, so I thought I'd ask here.

It's been several years since I've cloned, and I can't remember if this is normal. My clones are rooting fine, but the clones themselves look horrible. 

I've got two bubbler totes with tons of bubbles. Bottom one has straight tap water, and the top has GH Floro nutes using their chart. When the clones on the bottom get a good set of roots, I move them to the top cloner.

Going by week 1 of the GH chart, I'm using 2.5ml/gal Micro, Gro, and Bloom. My tds was at about 400ppm when I started less than a week ago, and now it's around 260ppm. My pH is 5.9.

Bottom cloner - Plain tap water, no nutes. The healthy looking clones in the center were taken more recently from a more established mother. The others are 10 to 14 days old.













Top cloner - pH balanced, 260ppm down from 400ppm. *NOTE:* On the top reservoir, I was thinking it might be nute burn, so I dumped the soup and filled'r up with pH balanced tap.













GH feed chart:


----------



## OldMedUser (Aug 2, 2017)

I think you are using too much light on them before they get roots and they are burning themselves out trying to veg. One 40W CFL about 10" above them for the first week or until they get roots is lots.

They just need an 18 hour day to stay happy and get their root on but excess light makes them try to add new growth and the only source of nutes is to eat themselves from the bottom up.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 2, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> I think you are using too much light on them before they get roots and they are burning themselves out trying to veg. One 40W CFL about 10" above them for the first week or until they get roots is lots.
> 
> They just need an 18 hour day to stay happy and get their root on but excess light makes them try to add new growth and the only source of nutes is to eat themselves from the bottom up.


Thanks! I'll make some adjustments. Are these shot, or can they pull out if it?


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 2, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> I think you are using too much light on them before they get roots and they are burning themselves out trying to veg. One 40W CFL about 10" above them for the first week or until they get roots is lots.
> 
> They just need an 18 hour day to stay happy and get their root on but excess light makes them try to add new growth and the only source of nutes is to eat themselves from the bottom up.


Are my nute levels okay or should I be waiting longer before adding any?


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 2, 2017)

In the pic above, where the roots are more established, is that a good time to start feeding? If so, can anyone look at the GH chart and tell me I should be starting at 2.5ml/gallon of micro, gro, and bloom?

Thank


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## rkymtnman (Aug 2, 2017)

400 ppm is too high IMO. i'd go for half that: 1.25mL of each to start.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 2, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> 400 ppm is too high IMO. i'd go for half that: 1.25mL of each to start.


Good deal! Thx!


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 3, 2017)

Change of plans: I think I'm going to replace the 4 x buckets and use 2 x totes instead (plus a tote for the controller). I'm going to see if the 27 gallon HDX totes are in my budget. Those are supposed to be really good.

Reasons:

Even though I was able to seal the bulkheads to the round 5-gallon buckets, I'm very worried that nudging a bucket (which happens all the time) could cause the seal to break and start leaking. The totes have flat surfaces, which I'm sure will help tremendously. Plus, the totes will be heavier and more resistant to being bumped out of position.
The totes have a much larger capacity (8 to 10 gallon for two buckets compared to 24 - 26 gallons per tote)
The buckets/lids were cheap so there's not going to be a huge loss, plus I can use the netpots I already have

What y'all think? I know OldMedUser's going to think it's a much better plan


----------



## rkymtnman (Aug 3, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Change of plans: I think I'm going to replace the 4 x buckets and use 2 x totes instead (plus a tote for the controller). I'm going to see if the 27 gallon HDX totes are in my budget. Those are supposed to be really good.
> 
> Reasons:
> 
> ...


so basically you are stealing my design from about 5 years ago! lol. 

i used shower drains on the bottom of each tote. ran 2" pvc from each tote to the control tote outside the grow room. just needed to mount them on bricks or similare to give enough clearance below. 

my feeding system was a 400gph pump into heater hose which had a the kitchen faucet sprayer design on the ends to create the waterfalls.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 3, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> so basically you are stealing my design from about 5 years ago! lol.
> 
> i used shower drains on the bottom of each tote. ran 2" pvc from each tote to the control tote outside the grow room. just needed to mount them on bricks or similare to give enough clearance below.
> 
> my feeding system was a 400gph pump into heater hose which had a the kitchen faucet sprayer design on the ends to create the waterfalls.


Shit, you found me out! LOL You don't have a copyright on that, do you? I admit that your setup inspired me 

I had contemplated raising everything for better drainage, and had done that before. I had set up an aero system with multiple sprayers in each bucket, and no stones. The bottom of the buckets drained to the reservoir sitting below the buckets, so there was never remaining water in the buckets themselves. The res was an under-bed tote and worked really well. It was dangerous because if the sprayers got clogged, it didn't take long at all for the plants to react and start wilting.

Well, I hope you don't mind me borrowing your ideas


----------



## rkymtnman (Aug 3, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Well, I hope you don't mind me borrowing your ideas


patent pending. lol. 

it works killer. 2 plants per tub. they grew to monsters with really large root balls.


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## JSB99 (Aug 3, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> patent pending. lol.
> 
> it works killer. 2 plants per tub. they grew to monsters with really large root balls.


Right on!!!


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## JSB99 (Aug 4, 2017)

Not bad for a day's work...



















The valves and everything are still really easy to get to. I also still have room to work in the tent from the side flap. That was something I wasn't willing to give up. I've got a bad back.


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## JSB99 (Aug 4, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I also still have room to work in the tent from the side flap.


These totes are so sturdy, I may be able to sit on the res while I'm working on that side


----------



## OldMedUser (Aug 4, 2017)

That's why I never nail anything down. 

Those totes are pretty tall eh. Should work alright.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 4, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> That's why I never nail anything down.
> 
> Those totes are pretty tall eh. Should work alright.


They're actually around the same height as the buckets, so no modifying this time. I've actually taken the 2" pipes apart a number of times because of one reason or another. Mostly design changes. I used my heat gun to reactivate the solvent to where the pipes and adapters can be separated. Saves a hell of a lot money!


----------



## Budley Doright (Aug 5, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> What part of metering the O2 don't you get?
> 
> The little that goes into the air won't affect the CO2 levels enough to make any difference at all.
> 
> It's like thinking that my sitting in the grow room will produce enough CO2 to help the plants grow faster. View attachment 3985420


Actually depending on the room, sitting in it will raise CO2 levels .


----------



## Budley Doright (Aug 5, 2017)

I'm surprised the roots are not plugging up the return lines in these setups. I'm switching over to pails in the fall, just not sure how I'm going to set it up yet. My covered flood and drain system was a bitch until I got a handle on the roots going everywhere. Is there issues with roots? I use silk screen on my drain and it works well but I do need to clean it a couple times each run.


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## JSB99 (Aug 5, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I'm surprised the roots are not plugging up the return lines in these setups. I'm switching over to pails in the fall, just not sure how I'm going to set it up yet. My covered flood and drain system was a bitch until I got a handle on the roots going everywhere. Is there issues with roots? I use silk screen on my drain and it works well but I do need to clean it a couple times each run.


That's why larger pipes are used. Filters can be used, but they can become clogged just as easily. With something like rdwc/uc, you check the system daily and do whatever preventative maintenance you can. Trimming roots when they start blocking pipes seems to be the method to prevent issues. Alien RDWC has systems with 4" pipes that looks like overkill, but it just helps prevent clogging.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 5, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I'm switching over to pails in the fall, just not sure how I'm going to set it up yet.


Consider using square buckets or totes. You get a better seal with your bulkheads or Uniseals. Plus, square containers hold more liquid compared to round buckets given the same size.

You can use round buckets, but it's a lot more touchy. It takes a small nudge to move buckets out of position and start leaks. I was using buckets but didn't want to battle drips.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 7, 2017)

Been running since last night with no leaks! Didn't start off that way though.

First, I wrapped the threads with Teflon (for extra protection), and used a single washer on each bulkhead. I had a couple stubborn drips that I couldn't get to stop, no matter how tight I got it. So I drained the system for adjustments.

Next, After removing all the Teflon tape, I decided to use two washers/bulkhead to thicken up the wall a little. Both the washers for each bulkhead were on the male side (using a washer on the female side does absolutely nothing). I had better luck this time, but still had a couple slow drips I couldn't stop. I noticed that the drips were coming from in between the washers. So I drained it again.

Lastly, I used a single washer and no Teflon. Worked perfectly! Well, almost perfectly. One of them has a very slow leak that just seems to leave the washer a little moist. It really doesn't even drip. So I don't know if I'm just going to live with it, or if I'm going to go the next step, which would be using some epoxy or sealant on each. I may even do that just for assurance. who knows what may pop up later.







Lots of bubbles!






Manifolds






Controller reservoir fits perfectly here! Didn't even have to modify the pump manifold going from the bucket to the tote! Luckily they were about the same height.






All my valves are still very easy to get to.






Got pretty good pressure for my waterfall now. I might go up to a larger pump at some point. I've got a lot more water to circulate now. With the buckets I was around 25 gallons. Now I'm at about 75 gallons, which is way better, but I'm probably going to want to account for that. I've got my formula around somewhere, but it's pretty easy to figure out. I've tripled my water, so I triple the gph. 1200 gph sounds right.


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## rkymtnman (Aug 7, 2017)

aquarium sealant.

don't join the Flood Club. lol.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 7, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> aquarium sealant.
> 
> don't join the Flood Club. lol.


Thx!


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 7, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> aquarium sealant.


Is that what you used, or did your bulkheads work by themselves?


----------



## rkymtnman (Aug 7, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Is that what you used, or did your bulkheads work by themselves?


i actually used shower drains so same as bulkheads but i used sealant too.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 8, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> i actually used shower drains so same as bulkheads but i used sealant too.


I sealed everything last night with aquarium-safe silicone. Pretty confident this will be the end to the leaks. I'll test it later after cure time.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 8, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> i actually used shower drains so same as bulkheads but i used sealant too.


I was wondering, how many gallons your system holds, and what size pump you use. I go by 12 full cycles an hour. So, 75 gallons 12 times would be a 900 gph pump. It's probably not critical right now because I've got a ton of bubbles/tote. But I do want to at some point. What's the point of building a UC if the pump is only powerful enough for an RDWC.


----------



## rkymtnman (Aug 9, 2017)

it was 3 27 gal totes same as yours. with a 5inch netpot, the water level is substantially lower. i don't remember the exact volume but i want to say 45 gals total. so 45x12=540 and my pump was 400. close enough. 

UC and RDWC are virtually identical IMO. move lots of water with lots of DO in it and watch it grow.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 9, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> UC and RDWC are virtually identical IMO. move lots of water with lots of DO in it and watch it grow.


I was under the assumption that UC had much higher flow that brought DO to the roots, where RDWC is lower flow that just circulates nutes/pH through the system. With the amount of bubbles I'm creating with airstones, it's probably a moot point. But one thing I like about UC over RDWC is that if either the water pump or the air pump goes out, the remaining pump would keep everything alive until a replacement pump arrives. Redundency.


----------



## rkymtnman (Aug 9, 2017)

get a small 12v battery and a 12 v air pump if you really need a shit hits the fan solution. you could run it for days in a power outage and keep them alive. could even run a small 12v led so the light cycle stays the same.


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## JSB99 (Aug 9, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> get a small 12v battery and a 12 v air pump if you really need a shit hits the fan solution. you could run it for days in a power outage and keep them alive. could even run a small 12v led so the light cycle stays the same.


Sweet! I was thinking about getting a genny at some point. Just enough power for the room and my flat screen.


----------



## rkymtnman (Aug 9, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Sweet! I was thinking about getting a genny at some point. Just enough power for the room and my flat screen.


and my vaporizer too!


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 9, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> and my vaporizer too!


Absolutely!!! I have a 200w plug-in transformer for when I'm camping or out for a long day . Never leave home for long without it!


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 9, 2017)

I think the mint is really taking a liking to all the nutes!


----------



## rkymtnman (Aug 9, 2017)

MJ infused Mojitos. might be the next big thing in cocktails.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 9, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> MJ infused Mojitos. might be the next big thing in cocktails.


I like it!


----------



## rkymtnman (Aug 9, 2017)

oh shit, i better patent this one then! retirement, here i come.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 9, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> oh shit, i better patent this one then! retirement, here i come.


I was just thinking that there's a lot of room available on the lids. I could probably grow herbs in trays. Not sure how well that'd work once the canopy gets thick, especially with a 600w. I'm planning on getting a 1k ballast/bulbs and running it at 750 to get a little more penetration while still keeping the temps down.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 9, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> oh shit, i better patent this one then! retirement, here i come.


It'd be kinda cool to cut circles for netpots in all the remaining unused squares on the lid. Then grow some kind of ground covering vines to make a cool base, rather than the yellow lid. Hmmm...wonder if that'd work. 

Has anyone tried this?


----------



## Budley Doright (Aug 10, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Consider using square buckets or totes. You get a better seal with your bulkheads or Uniseals. Plus, square containers hold more liquid compared to round buckets given the same size.
> 
> You can use round buckets, but it's a lot more touchy. It takes a small nudge to move buckets out of position and start leaks. I was using buckets but didn't want to battle drips.


I've got 20 square 5 gallon pails with lids I picked up for free last year but I'm going to try and do a flood and drain type setup or DTW, I solved the root issue with my setup now but want separate plants this go .


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 10, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I've got 20 square 5 gallon pails with lids I picked up for free last year but I'm going to try and do a flood and drain type setup or DTW, I solved the root issue with my setup now but want separate plants this go .


Oh man!!! I wish I had stumbled across some. They're pricy online.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 11, 2017)

Hey Noobs, this is why you always use a pond liner if you're doing any kind of hydro with a large amount of water, indoors. Flooding will happen at some point. It's inevitable. If I didn't have my liner and frame, this probably would've found it's way outside the room.








This was an overnight test after sealing the bulkheads outside the totes with silicone. I didn't tighten one as much as I should've and the silicone wasn't enough to contain it. Now, I've sealed the female bulkhead connectors inside the totes as well. I sealed the walls as well as the threads. Also added another layer of silicone to the outside. I'm using aquarium safe 100% silicone, so it should be okay inside the totes.

What I think happened was that I forgot to support the 2" pipe manifold, and the weight, after the water was added, pulled it off the wall. Stuff is supposed to be flexible, but maybe not that flexible.

I'll do another test tonight.


----------



## Ryry94 (Aug 11, 2017)

Love the plant on a cart idea!


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 11, 2017)

Ryry94 said:


> Love the plant on a cart idea!


LOL! You know what they say, "Necessity is the mother of invention." 

I have to go up two ramps to get her in and out of the house. It's both a cart and a dolly. Got it at HD. It's really cool!


----------



## PetFlora (Aug 11, 2017)

Question doesn't recirculating mean water is constantly moving through each bucket/tote, and back to the main rez?


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 11, 2017)

PetFlora said:


> Question doesn't recirculating mean water is constantly moving through each bucket/tote, and back to the main rez?


Yes
Under Current is a type of RDWC (the "R" being "Recirculating")


----------



## PetFlora (Aug 12, 2017)

^ That is my understanding. That being the case, all you need is to aerate the rez, either 24/7, or on a timer. I use a separate low pressure pump on a timer: 4/40. Looks like you could run one vertically


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 12, 2017)

PetFlora said:


> ^ That is my understanding. That being the case, all you need is to aerate the rez, either 24/7, or on a timer. I use a separate low pressure pump on a timer: 4/40. Looks like you could run one vertically
> 
> View attachment 3993659


Here's where I think the main difference is between RDWC and UC. With an RDWC, the water just needs to be cycled through the system so that nutes/pH is the same across the board. But UC has to have a minimum flow rate that ensures enough DO makes it through the entire system before it dissipates. The "current" also has to be powerful enough to draw the DO water through the roots, not just pass them by.

The common formula for the right size UC pump is _total gallons * 12 = GPH required_
Example:
With a system containing 50 total gallons, circulating the total water 12 times/hour requires a 600GPH pump.

My current pump is undersized @ 400GPH in my 50 gallon UC system. However, because I have the stones going, the under current isn't as vital. So right now I'm running an "RDWC", not an "Under Current". If I increase my pump size to the correct size required for an under current, the airstones aren't as necessary, even though I'd still use them so that the roots get an abundance of DO. That's why when you look at the CC UC systems, they include an air pump. In theory, with a UC, the water pump should be powerful enough so that an air pump isn't necessary.


----------



## Budley Doright (Aug 12, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Here's where I think the main difference is between RDWC and UC. With an RDWC, the water just needs to be cycled through the system so that nutes/pH is the same across the board. But UC has to have a minimum flow rate that ensures enough DO makes it through the entire system before it dissipates. The "current" also has to be powerful enough to draw the DO water through the roots, not just pass them by.
> 
> The common formula for the right size UC pump is _total gallons * 12 = GPH required_
> Example:
> ...


I think you hit the key for UC, get the DO into the roots interior and not just the outer portion. I see a lot of great root balls only to find the middle portion is suffering from lack of circulation. I want do a flood and drain type deal with pails but need to add and remove pails as required for perpetual. Still trying to figure it out though lol.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 12, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I think you hit the key for UC, get the DO into the roots interior and not just the outer portion. I see a lot of great root balls only to find the middle portion is suffering from lack of circulation. I want do a flood and drain type deal with pails but need to add and remove pails as required for perpetual. Still trying to figure it out though lol.


Exactly!

Why would you need to change out pails with a perpetual grow? Are you talking about when moving plants from veg to flower? When I had mine set up, the buckets were permanent and I would transfer from veg to flower via the plants and the lids. I'll explain:

My veg buckets were 2-gallon and my flower buckets were 5-gallon. The smaller 2-gallon lids had the netpots, while the 5-gallon lids only had the hole cut out for the size of the netpots. When I moved the plants, I just set the 2-gallon lids w/plants in netpots on top of the 5-gallon lids with the hole cut out. This method requires doubling up on 2-gallon lids and netpots.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 12, 2017)

Everything's running good. No leaks, good flow, and great bubbles! 

Got my rooted clones in there. Light @ 450w, 16k - 18k lumens at the tops, tds - 280ppm, pH - 5.9, water temp - 79f. 

I'm not going to be able to afford a chiller just yet. However, we've only got a few more weeks until it starts getting cool. The floor will be plenty cool, especially around October. If I'm still having an issue, I could probably rig up a stainless wort coil, and use a large res for chilling. Another idea would be to cut the floor just large enough so a small tote can be suspended from the floor, exposing the majority of the tote to the elements in the crawl space under the house. Then I'd fill it with water and put the second wort coil in it. I'm only going to be growing outside during the summer, so I'm not worried about the warm season. I'm not really sure how that'd work when it's really cold out. I could rig up a thermostat that runs the wort coil pump, to cool the system, when it got above 68.

After this grow I'm going to cut two additional holes for netpots, closer to the center on both the x and y. That way I can have the plants closer together and bring the light down more, as well as dropping the wattage more. I had to set mine to 75% (450w) to get good coverage. With the plants closer to center, I don't have to have the light nearly as high.






Plants are plenty comfy






I cut an easy-access hole in the lid. It works pretty good, but I have to make it bigger. It's a little tricky reading the pens and pouring nutes. I use a piece of pond liner to cover the hole for now.


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## Budley Doright (Aug 12, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Why would you need to change out pails with a perpetual grow? Are you talking about when moving plants from veg to flower? When I had mine set up, the buckets were permanent and I would transfer from veg to flower via the plants and the lids. I'll explain:
> 
> My veg buckets were 2-gallon and my flower buckets were 5-gallon. The smaller 2-gallon lids had the netpots, while the 5-gallon lids only had the hole cut out for the size of the netpots. When I moved the plants, I just set the 2-gallon lids w/plants in netpots on top of the 5-gallon lids with the hole cut out. This method requires doubling up on 2-gallon lids and netpots.


Actually perfect, that's what I had planned for my trays but didn't work out, that's was 6 plants moved at a time and no room lol.


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## Budley Doright (Aug 12, 2017)

Just a thought but I put the reflective bubble wrap on my res tops to cut down on temps and it did help but mine were black, yellow may be ok, perhaps to much light maybe in the root zone?


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## JSB99 (Aug 12, 2017)

Does anyone know the actual gallons this 27-gallon tote holds? I'm trying to guess the number of gallons for my nutes/pH. Is there a way to determine the number of gallons, besides the obvious "pour _n_-gallon containers of water one at a time and mark the levels"?

I'm thinking that the 2" pipes and 3 of these totes, filled to that level, would be around 80 gallons. Around the third week of veg, I usually drop the level around mid-way.


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## JSB99 (Aug 12, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Just a thought but I put the reflective bubble wrap on my res tops to cut down on temps and it did help but mine were black, yellow may be ok, perhaps to much light maybe in the root zone?


I was wondering that myself. I siliconed the exposed edges around the netpots, where light could get through. All I had was clear silicone, but I think it did the trick. I'm thinking of getting a little Panda Wrap. Haven't priced it yet, but I know my budget is $0, so I can't afford it now anyways  As an alternative, I have a full box of kitty litter garbage bags that are white and fairly thick. They're odd shaped, but I think that might actually work better. I was thinking of cutting and pasting the bags to the lids (If only it was as easy as "cutting and pasting" on the computer LOL!)


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## Budley Doright (Aug 13, 2017)

The white plastic would be better than nothing and nope I have no clue the exact size, I've always just used 25 gallons as the size


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## WeedFreak78 (Aug 13, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Change of plans: I think I'm going to replace the 4 x buckets and use 2 x totes instead (plus a tote for the controller). I'm going to see if the 27 gallon HDX totes are in my budget. Those are supposed to be really good.
> 
> Reasons:
> 
> ...


A clothes iron on low heat can form a flat on the side of the bucket. Have a towel with cool water to set it once it's flat. IDK if the fittings will still fit if you flatten out the buckets you already drilled, the holes might go oblong during the forming.

Nevermind... Didn't read to the end before posting.


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## WeedFreak78 (Aug 13, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Does anyone know the actual gallons this 27-gallon tote holds? I'm trying to guess the number of gallons for my nutes/pH. Is there a way to determine the number of gallons, besides the obvious "pour _n_-gallon containers of water one at a time and mark the levels"?
> 
> I'm thinking that the 2" pipes and 3 of these totes, filled to that level, would be around 80 gallons. Around the third week of veg, I usually drop the level around mid-way.


Volume = Length × width × water depth. Then convert Cubic Inches to Gal. I've scribed lines inside all my buckets in 2L increments and totes in 4L increments. There's self adhesive measuring tape out there you could always stick on the inside of the tote, then figure out water volume per inch, or however you want to gauge it. Another trick s a marked dowel with a foam ball on the end. Drill a hole for the dowel to stick out the top of the lid with graduations. The foam ball floats in the res, as water level drops, you'll see it on the dowel. 

We used this to monitor coolant levels in machines that didn't have easy access to the cooling reservoir. Its an easy visual indicator.


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## Budley Doright (Aug 13, 2017)

WeedFreak78 said:


> Volume = Length × width × water depth. Then convert Cubic Inches to Gal. I've scribed lines inside all my buckets in 2L increments and totes in 4L increments.


The totes (well mine) are not square so it's tough to get a real accurate volume, that's why I just take off a couple of gallons from total capacity, I never fill to the top to allow for more waterfall effect. Also I never actually measure other than use a clear container with 50 ml marks to add nutes.


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## JSB99 (Aug 13, 2017)

WeedFreak78 said:


> Volume = Length × width × water depth. Then convert Cubic Inches to Gal. I've scribed lines inside all my buckets in 2L increments and totes in 4L increments.


Ah yes, math comes to the rescue again

Thx!


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## JSB99 (Aug 13, 2017)

WeedFreak78 said:


> A clothes iron on low heat can form a flat on the side of the bucket. Have a towel with cool water to set it once it's flat. IDK if the fittings will still fit if you flatten out the buckets you already drilled, the holes might go oblong during the forming.
> 
> Nevermind... Didn't read to the end before posting.


I see where you're going with this. If I had stuck with buckets I probably would've tried this.


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## WeedFreak78 (Aug 13, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> The totes (well mine) are not square so it's tough to get a real accurate volume, that's why I just take off a couple of gallons from total capacity, I never fill to the top to allow for more waterfall effect. Also I never actually measure other than use a clear container with 50 ml marks to add nutes.


I believe stated volume is usually 2-3" below the rim, but I'm sure it varies by manufacturer. The larger the tote, the less accuracy you need on volume. An extra litre in 10 gals isn't going to effect as much as being a litre off in 3 gals. 

There's online calculators that'll figure out volume of odd shapes if you really want to get accurate. The taper on those totes doesn't effect it enough to worry.


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## JSB99 (Aug 13, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> The totes (well mine) are not square so it's tough to get a real accurate volume, that's why I just take off a couple of gallons from total capacity, I never fill to the top to allow for more waterfall effect. Also I never actually measure other than use a clear container with 50 ml marks to add nutes.


Guessing got me close on my pH/nutes


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## JSB99 (Aug 13, 2017)

WeedFreak78 said:


> I believe stated volume is usually 2-3" below the rim, but I'm sure it varies by manufacturer. The larger the tote, the less accuracy you need on volume. An extra litre in 10 gals isn't going to effect as much as being a litre off in 3 gals.
> 
> There's online calculators that'll figure out volume of odd shapes if you really want to get accurate. The taper on those totes doesn't effect it enough to worry.


Gotcha. The reason I was asking about total gallons is because the 5-gallon buckets from the hardware store are actually around 6-gallons, to the rim.


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## WeedFreak78 (Aug 13, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I see where you're going with this. If I had stuck with buckets I probably would've tried this.


I had square white buckets that kitty litter came in, they were awesome, but low quality and the plastic started breaking down under the lights. I really wish square buckets were more commonly available, it's always surprised me they weren't the standard in hydro. 

Stupid round buckets wasting space.


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## Budley Doright (Aug 13, 2017)

I hope the ones I have (used for syrup) don't do that . I'm going to try 2 at a time and stagger them by 3-4 weeks and try to get an in and out cycle going.


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## WeedFreak78 (Aug 13, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Gotcha. The reason I was asking about total gallons is because the 5-gallon buckets from the hardware store are actually around 6-gallons, to the rim.


5gal is usually measured at the first molded ring around the top, from the bottom. Usually around where the handle is mounted. 

Before I knew this I went F'ing nuts trying to figure out why 5gal buckets ands 5 gal nursery pots didn't hold the same volumes.


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## JSB99 (Aug 13, 2017)

WeedFreak78 said:


> I had square white buckets that kitty litter came in, they were awesome, but low quality and the plastic started breaking down under the lights. I really wish square buckets were more commonly available, it's always surprised me they weren't the standard in hydro.
> 
> Stupid round buckets wasting space.


I hear ya. I was going to look for litter buckets. But after what you mentioned, about the plastic breaking down, I'm glad I didn't. Probably breaking down from UV.

I was really surprised to find that the square hydro buckets weren't more available. I really wanted to use those, but the only ones I ever found were around $16 for a bucket and lid. I find it difficult to pony-up lots of money on square containers.

I really like the hdx containers!


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## WeedFreak78 (Aug 13, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I hope the ones I have (used for syrup) don't do that . I'm going to try 2 at a time and stagger them by 3-4 weeks and try to get an in and out cycle going.


 I'd be willing to bet they are. These were never meant for outdoor use, so they probably weren't UV stabilized.


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## JSB99 (Aug 13, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I hope the ones I have (used for syrup) don't do that . I'm going to try 2 at a time and stagger them by 3-4 weeks and try to get an in and out cycle going.


You may be able to treat the buckets. If it were me, I think I would take some car wax or sealant, like Nu Finish, and add a layer or two.


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## JSB99 (Aug 13, 2017)

WeedFreak78 said:


> 5gal is usually measured at the first molded ring around the top, from the bottom. Usually around where the handle is mounted.
> 
> Before I knew this I went F'ing nuts trying to figure out why 5gal buckets ands 5 gal nursery pots didn't hold the same volumes.


Same thing threw me off when looking at 5-gallon root bags. They looked more like 3-gallon bags.


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## JSB99 (Aug 13, 2017)

Time to yank the mint out of there. They're taking over and I've still got about 7 weeks to go. If I don't, I'll have a whole bunch of mint trees and a tiny cannabis plant


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## JSB99 (Aug 13, 2017)

WeedFreak78 said:


> I believe stated volume is usually 2-3" below the rim, but I'm sure it varies by manufacturer. The larger the tote, the less accuracy you need on volume. An extra litre in 10 gals isn't going to effect as much as being a litre off in 3 gals.
> 
> There's online calculators that'll figure out volume of odd shapes if you really want to get accurate. The taper on those totes doesn't effect it enough to worry.



This one works great! 

       Tank Height =   14 Inches 
        Tank Length =   25 Inches 
        Tank Width =    18 Inches 

       When Tank         Then Tank
       Depth Equals       Volume Equals
       0.00 Inches = = = 0.00 U S gallons
       1.00 Inches = = = 1.9481 U S gallons
       2.00 Inches = = = 3.8961 U S gallons
       3.00 Inches = = = 5.8442 U S gallons
       4.00 Inches = = = 7.7922 U S gallons
       5.00 Inches = = = 9.7403 U S gallons
       6.00 Inches = = = 11.688 U S gallons
       7.00 Inches = = = 13.636 U S gallons
       8.00 Inches = = = 15.584 U S gallons
       9.00 Inches = = = 17.532 U S gallons
       10.00 Inches = = = 19.481 U S gallons
       11.00 Inches = = = 21.429 U S gallons
       12.00 Inches = = = 23.377 U S gallons
       13.00 Inches = = = 25.325 U S gallons
       14.00 Inches = = = 27.273 U S gallons

I'm at 9.5". So I'm holding 18-gallons/tote + (est) 3-gallons for pipes = 57-gallons


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## WeedFreak78 (Aug 13, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> This one works great!
> 
> Tank Height =   14 Inches
> Tank Length =   25 Inches
> ...


Don't you have design software? Can it figure volumes for the objects you've created in it? I used to work with Solidworks and it could figure out all that. Tell it what material and you'd get weight, mass, volume, etc, etc. I need to go find a newer copy and practice, it's been years since I've used it.


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## JSB99 (Aug 13, 2017)

Bigger hole, better lid


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## JSB99 (Aug 13, 2017)

WeedFreak78 said:


> Don't you have design software? Can it figure volumes for the objects you've created in it? I used to work with Solidworks and it could figure out all that. Tell it what material and you'd get weight, mass, volume, etc, etc. I need to go find a newer copy and practice, it's been years since I've used it.


I work (play) in 3ds Max 2017, Sketchup Pro, and have worked in Maya as well. But that's just a hobby. I was a contract programmer/database developer, after I got out of the Army in '94.

I haven't had a need to play with any volume calculations, or anything like that. But I'd have to imagine someone's got a script for tools like that in 3ds Max. There are scripts for pretty much anything related to physics.


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## Budley Doright (Aug 13, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I work (play) in 3ds Max 2017, Sketchup Pro, and have worked in Maya as well. But that's just a hobby. I was a contract programmer/database developer, after I got out of the Army in '94.
> 
> I haven't had a need to play with any volume calculations, or anything like that. But I'd have to imagine someone's got a script for tools like that in 3ds Max. There are scripts for pretty much anything related to physics.


My AutoCAD does it but really is it necessary and honestly it would take less time to measure the water lol.


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## JSB99 (Aug 13, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> My AutoCAD does it but really is it necessary and honestly it would take less time to measure the water lol.


I hear ya!


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## Budley Doright (Aug 13, 2017)

Let me clarify that it's been 20 years and 20 upgrades since I used it lol.


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## WeedFreak78 (Aug 14, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Time to yank the mint out of there. They're taking over and I've still got about 7 weeks to go. If I don't, I'll have a whole bunch of mint trees and a tiny cannabis plant


I started looking into companion planting and wondered about planting bush beans around the base seeing how they put N back into the soil.


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## JSB99 (Aug 14, 2017)

WeedFreak78 said:


> I started looking into companion planting and wondered about planting bush beans around the base seeing how they put N back into the soil.


Peppers are also supposed to work good.


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## OldMedUser (Aug 15, 2017)

Plant like beans, clover etc get nodules on their roots that later break down and release nitrogen in the soil I believe so it's not immediately available to the plants in their vicinity. After they break down they release N and other goodies so the 2nd season they would help.


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## Budley Doright (Aug 15, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> Plant like beans, clover etc get nodules on their roots that later break down and release nitrogen in the soil I believe so it's not immediately available to the plants in their vicinity. After they break down they release N and other goodies so the 2nd season they would help.


That is somewhat true but the guy that rents my farm will mow the clover and the top portion will add nitrogen to the soil as well as any root mass that dies in the process. But your right that the roots will also add it when the plants are harvested. The harvested clover is then consumed and poo is spread which is high in nitrogen. I got curious and talked to him a few weeks ago .


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## OldMedUser (Aug 15, 2017)

I wish the guy that farms the fields beside us would use more natural methods to farm instead of exposing us and our chickens and garden to his noxious sprays 5 or 6 times each season. Drives right by spraying crap like roundup knowing the wind is blowing it right across our property not 10ft from the edge of his field. When we complained he said we could always move. I think he will be finding some foot long chunks of rebar in his fields this fall to fuck up his mower bar for him.


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## Budley Doright (Aug 15, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> I wish the guy that farms the fields beside us would use more natural methods to farm instead of exposing us and our chickens and garden to his noxious sprays 5 or 6 times each season. Drives right by spraying crap like roundup knowing the wind is blowing it right across our property not 10ft from the edge of his field. When we complained he said we could always move. I think he will be finding some foot long chunks of rebar in his fields this fall to fuck up his mower bar for him.


My fields are certified organic by the province, the same farmer has been renting for 20 years and has worked to get them certified over the last 15. His cows are fed with the crops and he now has an organic farm gate dairy, an amazing guy. I get tired just watching him lol. I hate to say it but they may not be organic if I worked em, they yield far less than they did with fertilizer, no deer come, I think they liked the salts lol. It's really not an easy decision if your livelihood depends on it. But yes you can lessen the impact of all farming by using your fucking brain. I would be at war with that guy, thankgod I'm not . I get in trouble easy lol.


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## OldMedUser (Aug 16, 2017)

The guy is a known local a-hole. Bought himself a little philippina baby making machine that follows him a good 10ft behind when they are are shopping in town and basically pisses off everyone he deals with. He has quarters all over the place around here so I'll mine a few that are some distance from my place. He flies off the handle pretty easy I'm told so after the 5th or 6th repair to his mowing bar on his harvester he ought to blow a gasket. 

Every year part of our garden gets f'ed up. Some hormone based pesticide he uses causes the leaves on the potato plants to all twist up and all you get are small deformed spuds. He knows the winds blow from the west after about 10am so all he has to do is show up early and do the quarter near our place first then do the rest of the section after that and no problem. No warning either so we can shut the chickens in first and even throw some cheap plastic over most of the garden.

It's all GMO crops and chemicals everywhere here. He's got wheat in this year instead of canola and they spry that with roundup too even tho it's not GMO. Lot of crops get roundup to finish them off. Peas, lentils wheat, oats, etc etc. Crazy shit.


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## JSB99 (Aug 16, 2017)

We're off and running! One of the things I love about DWC is seeing your girls grow 1" to 3" in a single day! The ones on the left grew at least an inch since yesterday. The ones on the right are a day or so behind, but have tons of hanging roots and are taking off! I'll be topping and maybe supercropping these so I'll level them all out at that point .






Water temps @ 70 with the help of some evaporative cooling. Its very dark in the corner with the lights off, so I'm not worried about algae or anything.






Cheap way to keep your humidity up. Put a bowl of water in front of the room's air intake. Without it, the RH hoovers around 35%


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## JSB99 (Aug 16, 2017)

Mama Headband lookin' strong! Flower, week-2


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## JSB99 (Aug 16, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> We're off and running! One of the things I love about DWC is seeing your girls grow 1" to 3" in a single day! The ones on the left grew at least an inch since yesterday. The ones on the right are a day or so behind, but have tons of hanging roots and are taking off! I'll be topping and maybe supercropping these so I'll level them all out at that point .


I've got the MH running @ 450w, giving me around 25k lumens at the tops. When should I bump it up to 600w?


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## JSB99 (Aug 16, 2017)

Can anyone suggest a good way to mark the water height inside of the res?


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## OldMedUser (Aug 16, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I've got the MH running @ 450w, giving me around 25k lumens at the tops. When should I bump it up to 600w?


Once they are used to 450 and growing well it should be OK to boost it up. Probably a few days.



JSB99 said:


> Can anyone suggest a good way to mark the water height inside of the res?


Magic marker won't work well on black plastic so maybe something hanging down from the lip to the level you want for reference?


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## Budley Doright (Aug 16, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Can anyone suggest a good way to mark the water height inside of the res?


I have a bulkhead fitting at the bottom with a clear tube attached (drain) the tube is covered with a slip on piece of armaflex. It is held in place at lid by plastic hose clip and I can monitor levels and when needed I just use that run to catch tray to change water. I've also thought about a piece of bamboo or some type of rod with a small hole drilled in corner of lid like a float stick with a foam to have it go up and down but that was fancy thinking lol.


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## JSB99 (Aug 16, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> Once they are used to 450 and growing well it should be OK to boost it up. Probably a few days.


I ended up turning it up and raising the hood to about 18". The spread on that hood sucks, and the plants need to be closer together to be covered by the 450.



OldMedUser said:


> Magic marker won't work well on black plastic so maybe something hanging down from the lip to the level you want for reference?


I was thinking about using a string.


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## JSB99 (Aug 16, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I have a bulkhead fitting at the bottom with a clear tube attached (drain) the tube is covered with a slip on piece of armaflex. It is held in place at lid by plastic hose clip and I can monitor levels and when needed I just use that run to catch tray to change water. I've also thought about a piece of bamboo or some type of rod with a small hole drilled in corner of lid like a float stick with a foam to have it go up and down but that was fancy thinking lol.


The way I used to do it is by using 1/2" barbed adapters (male and female + o-ring to create bulkheads) and poly vinyl tubing. Put a bulkhead at the bottom and one at the top. Connect them with the tubing on the outside of the res. I might do that the next time I flush.


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## Budley Doright (Aug 16, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> The way I used to do it is by using 1/2" barbed adapters (male and female + o-ring to create bulkheads) and poly vinyl tubing. Put a bulkhead at the bottom and one at the top. Connect them with the tubing on the outside of the res. I might do that the next time I flush.


That works but I needed to cover mine as they would go all funky from the light.


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## JSB99 (Aug 16, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> That works but I needed to cover mine as they would go all funky from the light.


Yeah, I had that problem too. I was thinking of using duct tape to cover the tube, with the exception of a small slit to see the level. But thinking about it now, I think the problem is actually a lack of circulation, and not necessarily the light.


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## OldMedUser (Aug 16, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I have a bulkhead fitting at the bottom with a clear tube attached (drain) the tube is covered with a slip on piece of armaflex. It is held in place at lid by plastic hose clip and I can monitor levels and when needed I just use that run to catch tray to change water. I've also thought about a piece of bamboo or some type of rod with a small hole drilled in corner of lid like a float stick with a foam to have it go up and down but that was fancy thinking lol.


I was thinking about doing the same thing. I've got some old plastic foam fish floats, we always called them dink floats, thst I could cut into about 3 pieces and stick a bamboo skewer in so it rides up and down. Just use some marking pens to colour the skewer to show when it's getting low. I figure to put a piece of plastic tube in the lid for the skewer to slide up and down in so it doesn't tilt. Most of the time I just top up every 3 days and can see the level so know when to stop. No worries about light leaks,


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## JSB99 (Aug 16, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> I was thinking about doing the same thing. I've got some old plastic foam fish floats, we always called them dink floats, thst I could cut into about 3 pieces and stick a bamboo skewer in so it rides up and down. Just use some marking pens to colour the skewer to show when it's getting low. I figure to put a piece of plastic tube in the lid for the skewer to slide up and down in so it doesn't tilt. Most of the time I just top up every 3 days and can see the level so know when to stop. No worries about light leaks,


So the bamboo was okay sitting in the res? How'd you secure it? It's a great idea!


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## OldMedUser (Aug 16, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I ended up turning it up and raising the hood to about 18". The spread on that hood sucks, and the plants need to be closer together to be covered by the 450.


I got one of those hoods too and don't like it. I rigged the other end to run a 2nd bulb in it and hung it from a light rail to go back and forth to cover a 5' spread. Wouldn't work for your setup tho. I run open hoods so just use wide angled ones tho thinking I might end up using air-cooled ones with their own air line from outside to outside. Would make it easier to set up a sealed grow room with CO2.



JSB99 said:


> So the bamboo was okay sitting in the res? How'd you secure it? It's a great idea!


I haven't done it yet but see no reason it wouldn't work. The sponge float piece would be sitting in the water with the skewer stuck in the middle pointing upwards. I could always colour the stick then coat in with varnish. I got epoxy stuff for coating the wraps that hold guides on to fishing rods from my rod building days that would work good. Saw some plans for using 5gal water jugs inverted to feed the tubs and keep them topped up. Just a tube set at the level you want and when it drops water dribbles out until the end of the tube is covered again. If I get my RO unit I may just set up a fresh water tank with a float valve to add water automatically and keep a few tubs topped up. Then just check the ppm once a week and add nutes when needed.


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## Budley Doright (Aug 17, 2017)

I use gull wings but have cut duct takeoffs in the tops and ducted to exhaust, while not as effective as sealed they work well to get rid of heat. CO2 would be nice but I would need to set up ac and my shed power is maxed .


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## JSB99 (Aug 17, 2017)

Not surprisingly, the girls don't seem to mind 600w at all. I'm trying to keep them from stretching too much, early on.


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## rkymtnman (Aug 17, 2017)

i run 24/0 for veg to minimize stretching. can't run a MH like that though, they need a off period.


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## Budley Doright (Aug 17, 2017)

Sorry I may have missed it but r u using MH or HPS? I have minimum stretch it's my T5's and really have not notice a difference in plant stretch when comparing MH, other than close to triple the running cost lol.


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## JSB99 (Aug 17, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Sorry I may have missed it but r u using MH or HPS? I have minimum stretch it's my T5's and really have not notice a difference in plant stretch when comparing MH, other than close to triple the running cost lol.


I'm running MH. I've always run MH in veg and switch to HPS for flower. In my closet, on the shelf above the clones, I'm going to keep some Bonsai Mums. I thought I'd try to do it with 23w CFLs, but I don't know if that's going to be adequate. I know they're supposed to be cool, but that's kind of a misnomer. The glass gets warm, and the attached ballast gets hot. A couple of these aren't bad, but when you've got 16, it'll warm up the closet pretty good. What I'm going to end up doing is building a COB LED array using a heatsink bar. There are renderings and info in my Virtual Grow Room link below. Then I can keep the driver out of the closet and remove some of the heat. Eventually, I do plan on building my 16 COB LED array and replacing the HID. That's one of the reasons I didn't invest too much into the ballast, light, and hood. What I have right now will get me plenty of bud, and work until I upgrade.


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## JSB99 (Aug 20, 2017)

I was worried about the amount of light the lids were letting through. Being a bright material makes it worse. I took some cardboard and did a rough cutout of the lid. I then used spray adhesive to add some leftover Mylar. Its a little tough comparing the covered and uncovered lids, but I can tell you that it made a huge difference!







*Uncovered*






*Covered*







This is my dipstick. I used some leftover pvc. I used some charts and calculators to mark the gallons on the pipe. After, I covered the marks with clear Scotch tape. Finally, I smeared some 100% aquarium safe silicone over the surface of the tape and let it cure. I secured it by drilling holes and using zip ties. After, I siliconed the drill holes.


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## JSB99 (Aug 20, 2017)

And some donuts around the stocks for a little more light control


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## JSB99 (Aug 20, 2017)

Done! That's a lot better!


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## JSB99 (Aug 21, 2017)

I hit week-2 a couple days ago. My tds is around 400ppm. I was just looking at the GH chart and it's up around 1050-1350 for week-2. Is that right? I'm going to keep my soup until Saturday, then I'm going to go 8M/16B (Lucas formula) for the rest of the grow. But for this week, should I bump up the nutes to hit the GH target?


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## rkymtnman (Aug 21, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I hit week-2 a couple days ago. My tds is around 400ppm. I was just looking at the GH chart and it's up around 1050-1350 for week-2. Is that right? I'm going to keep my soup until Saturday, then I'm going to go 8M/16B (Lucas formula) for the rest of the grow. But for this week, should I bump up the nutes to hit the GH target?


GH doesn't know what you are growing. let your plants tell you what they need. 

use your ppm meter. at 400, does it rapidly drop into the 300s? if so, then bump up. if not, keep at 400. 

8/16 will be around 2000 so you are getting ready to make a HUGE jump. (not what i would do)


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## JSB99 (Aug 21, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> GH doesn't know what you are growing. let your plants tell you what they need.
> 
> use your ppm meter. at 400, does it rapidly drop into the 300s? if so, then bump up. if not, keep at 400.
> 
> 8/16 will be around 2000 so you are getting ready to make a HUGE jump. (not what i would do)


It stays steady @ 435ppm, but that's including 75ppm tap. So really, I'm around 360ppm


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## JSB99 (Aug 21, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> 8/16 will be around 2000 so you are getting ready to make a HUGE jump. (not what i would do)


So you think I should work my way up? Maybe a week @ 5M/10B, a week @ 6M/12B, then full 8M/16B?


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## rkymtnman (Aug 21, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> It stays steady @ 435ppm, but that's including 75ppm tap. So really, I'm around 360ppm


steady is what you are looking for, the holy grail of ppms.


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## rkymtnman (Aug 21, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> So you think I should work my way up? Maybe a week @ 5M/10B, a week @ 6M/12B, then full 8M/16B?


i just went by my ppm. if i set the res at 500 and 2 days later it was 250 then i knew i was way too weak. i'd bump up to 800. 
if i set res at 500 and 7 days later it was at 450 i was pretty close and maybe go up to 550 or 600
just examples, not actual ppms.


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## JSB99 (Aug 21, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> i just went by my ppm. if i set the res at 500 and 2 days later it was 250 then i knew i was way too weak. i'd bump up to 800.
> if i set res at 500 and 7 days later it was at 450 i was pretty close and maybe go up to 550 or 600
> just examples, not actual ppms.


Gotcha. I've been steadily bumping mine up and I haven't seen any drastic drops in ppm's or pH. Using 55 gallons


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## rkymtnman (Aug 21, 2017)

don't feel like 8/16 is your goal. you might not need to go higher than 5/10 and still have super healthy plants


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## rkymtnman (Aug 21, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Gotcha. I've been steadily bumping mine up and I haven't seen any drastic drops in ppm's or pH. Using 55 gallons


keep doing that!


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## JSB99 (Aug 21, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> don't feel like 8/16 is your goal. you might not need to go higher than 5/10 and still have super healthy plants


Gotcha! Just do what the girls are telling me to do


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## Budley Doright (Aug 21, 2017)

You could go higher and watch the levels as well as leaf tips and cut it back if EC climbs or tips turn color. Or you could just stay where your at and plants are still happy. I tend to keep things on the low side and don't push it.


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## JSB99 (Aug 21, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> You could go higher and watch the levels as well as leaf tips and cut it back if EC climbs or tips turn color. Or you could just stay where your at and plants are still happy. I tend to keep things on the low side and don't push it.


I used to run things pretty hot, and used the leaf tips to guide me. I had to stay on top of it every hour lol! I'll be going a little lighter this time.


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## Budley Doright (Aug 21, 2017)

Good call! I'm typically around 700ish max. I have had a few strains that liked it higher.


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## JSB99 (Aug 22, 2017)

Did some fine tuning and adjustments today. The pipe feeding the reservoir was too high. Not sure why I had it like that. I went through the trouble because I want to get the most I can out of an undersized pump. 

Original:






Instead of starting from scratch, I'm going to heat the connections with my heat gun until the solvent is reactivated, which will allow me to pull them apart and reuse the parts













Now it rests right on the edge of the reservoir. The pressure is noticeably better! Not only did I lower the manifold, I removed the extension right before the spray head, so now the head is much higher and creates more of a waterfall.






I know, that was SO exciting


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## JSB99 (Aug 25, 2017)

Nothin' but net!

I built my cheap-ass SCROG screen out of scraps. Had no money to spend on this, so I used some scrap 1" PVC pipe, kite string, some duct tape, piece of rigid wire (for threading the string through the holes), and some zip ties.

This not only holds in place really well, but it also slides up and down really easily! Once I found the right height, I duct taped the bottom zip ties to make sure they don't move when bumped. Takes a couple hours to thread and tighten up, but it's easy.

The squares are 2" x 2"

I had 200 psi and 400 psi 1" PVC to work with. That's why the sides bow more than the front and back. There's a good amount of tension on the screen, and that string is really strong.






How I zipped the PVC to the poles. It's not rocket surgery, or anything 






The girls are around 12" after being topped, and I have the net around 14" above the lid. I'll probably be training some branches tomorrow.












Each one has some leaves that are bigger than my hand. And being 6'3", I have some pretty big hands


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## Budley Doright (Aug 25, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Nothin' but net!
> 
> I built my cheap-ass SCROG screen out of scraps. Had no money to spend on this, so I used some scrap 1" PVC pipe, kite string, some duct tape, piece of rigid wire (for threading the string through the holes), and some zip ties.
> 
> ...


You are industrious aren't you . It's looking great  but your giving me a complex lol. I need to get into my shed and start getting ready to power up. Plants are looking happy . Your gonna have a busy grow happening in there once things take off.


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## JSB99 (Aug 25, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> ...your giving me a complex


LOL, how so?


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## Budley Doright (Aug 25, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> LOL, how so?


My room looks like shit right now, I harvested my plants in June and turned off the switch .
Edit: my outdoor grow is keeping me busy though .


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## JSB99 (Aug 25, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> My room looks like shit right now, I harvested my plants in June and turned off the switch .
> Edit: my outdoor grow is keeping me busy though .


LOL!
I've actually been planning this for years. My first grows weren't so pretty. Not by far LOL!


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## Budley Doright (Aug 26, 2017)

My big issue was/is trying to fit to much unneaded shit into the shed and now that I've decided to scrap the setup I have and go with pails, I'm still trying to figure out a setup that will work . May not use my chillers at all if I go DTW.


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## JSB99 (Aug 26, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> My big issue was/is trying to fit to much unneaded shit into the shed and now that I've decided to scrap the setup I have and go with pails, I'm still trying to figure out a setup that will work . May not use my chillers at all if I go DTW.


It's always a challenge when trying to shoehorn plants that can grow like trees into a closet LOL. That's why I dedicated an entire room to a 4-plant grow. I wanted a spacious grow room with the least amount of Macgyvering. If done right, this little turbo charged four-banger has the ability to outgrow 8-plant grows. My grow is like a Porche in the grow room world


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## JSB99 (Aug 26, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> My big issue was/is trying to fit to much unneaded shit into the shed and now that I've decided to scrap the setup I have and go with pails, I'm still trying to figure out a setup that will work . May not use my chillers at all if I go DTW.


If you've got the height, you could get a low-profile, under-the-bed tote, and keep it underneath the buckets. Just a thought


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## Budley Doright (Aug 26, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> If you've got the height, you could get a low-profile, under-the-bed tote, and keep it underneath the buckets. Just a thought


I'm thinking skids and bottom drains, I have a crap load of the plastic skids and lots of fittings or bottom fill and drain recirc ..... just not sure.


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## JSB99 (Aug 26, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I'm thinking skids and bottom drains, I have a crap load of the plastic skids and lots of fittings or bottom fill and drain recirc ..... just not sure.


Well, if you get stuck and you're looking for some outside ideas, maybe I can contribute . LMK


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## Budley Doright (Aug 26, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Well, if you get stuck and you're looking for some outside ideas, maybe I can contribute . LMK


I will, I just want to get away from multiple plants in same container, it did work well but has a few limits for what I want to do.


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## Budley Doright (Aug 26, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> It's always a challenge when trying to shoehorn plants that can grow like trees into a closet LOL. That's why I dedicated an entire room to a 4-plant grow. I wanted a spacious grow room with the least amount of Macgyvering. If done right, this little turbo charged four-banger has the ability to outgrow 8-plant grows. My grow is like a Porche in the grow room world


I know about space, I've built a 8x8 shed and should have been way bigger lol. I am going to buy a c-can and spray foam it this year I hope


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## JSB99 (Aug 26, 2017)

Checking on the roots this morning. They're pretty white. Some discoloration might be due to the nutes. Res temp stays between 68 and 70. I have a 4" cylinder air stone under each plant, making the roots spread way out. The inner roots are getting plenty of o2. I was just noticing the torrent of waves and bubbles on the left side of the tote!  







Almost there:


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## Mass Medicinals (Aug 28, 2017)

really nice looking set-up!!


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## JSB99 (Aug 28, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Nothin' but net!
> 
> I built my cheap-ass SCROG screen out of scraps. Had no money to spend on this, so I used some scrap 1" PVC pipe, kite string, some duct tape, piece of rigid wire (for threading the string through the holes), and some zip ties.
> 
> ...



A couple updates:

Raised the scrog net to 20" above the lid
Adding a second scrog net to support the colas


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## ssj4jonathan (Aug 29, 2017)

Real nice setup. Kudos. Now build your self some LED rigs, and do away with the hps.


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## JSB99 (Aug 29, 2017)

ssj4jonathan said:


> Real nice setup. Kudos. Now build your self some LED rigs, and do away with the hps.


I hear ya! I'd love to be running COBs, but I've got to wait for some green...the other green, that is!


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## JSB99 (Aug 30, 2017)

*Man I love DWC!!!
*
I forgot how much of a difference there is in growth between rdwc and soil, or coco! These have leaves bigger than anything that ever grew on my 10-gallon coco grow!


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## Budley Doright (Aug 30, 2017)

Have you cut light back yet?


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## JSB99 (Aug 30, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Have you cut light back yet?


Not yet. I'm doing some fiming. Next week I should be filling out the net. So maybe 2 weeks?


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## Budley Doright (Aug 31, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Not yet. I'm doing some fiming. Next week I should be filling out the net. So maybe 2 weeks?


Shouldn't have any issues filling it.


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## JSB99 (Aug 31, 2017)

See these big fans growing over each other? Should I trim some of the blades back (snip blades in half)? A few are laying partially on top of each other, but there's a lot of circulation in there making the girls dance. 

They're growing like Jack's beanstalk!


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## Budley Doright (Aug 31, 2017)

Hopefully others chime in as I have never done a scrog, I grow em quick and no time for training lol.


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## JSB99 (Aug 31, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Hopefully others chime in as I have never done a scrog, I grow em quick and no time for training lol.


What size light do you use? I'm asking because as I'm looking at how mine are growing, it looks like it might be kind of tricky tucking or weaving branches through a screen. Some of the fans are huge! With this strain, maybe I'd be better off supercropping, LST, and bottom-up pruning. They're Headbands, so they've got significant sativa in them.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 1, 2017)

I have 2-600's running for flower and t-5's for veg. I just ran headband from HSC.  These are 3 weeks from seed and yup fat leaves lol.


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## JSB99 (Sep 1, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I have 2-600's running for flower and t-5's for veg. I just ran headband from HSC. View attachment 4003380 These are 3 weeks from seed and yup fat leaves lol.


Man, those look nice!!!

I've read that Headband has low to medium yields. How have your's been? I also read that there are two strains of Headband. One that's more sativa and one that's more indica. Looking at the huge leaves (opposed to spindly leaves) on both of our grows has me thinking they are more the indica Headband.

What do you think?


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## JSB99 (Sep 1, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I have 2-600's running for flower and t-5's for veg. I just ran headband from HSC. View attachment 4003380 These are 3 weeks from seed and yup fat leaves lol.


Are your's real squat like that because you vegged under a t5, as opposed to a 600w MH like mine? our's look so different from each other. I just dropped my light so they stop stretching and fill out the little topped ones. I had my light around 20" above the canopy. It's around 14" to 16" now. I remember, when I last grew, getting my ac cooled light real close to the canopy. I bleached a few tops here and there LOL. I'm going more conservative this time and work more on the coverage. These girls are 16" to 20" tall. If I wasn't scrogging, I would have flipped them already. I'll probably flip them next week and squash 'em with the net.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 1, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Man, those look nice!!!
> 
> I've read that Headband has low to medium yields. How have your's been? I also read that there are two strains of Headband. One that's more sativa and one that's more indica. Looking at the huge leaves (opposed to spindly leaves) on both of our grows has me thinking they are more the indica Headband.
> 
> What do you think?


Who is the breeder? And yes I think mostly indica.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 1, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Are your's real squat like that because you vegged under a t5, as opposed to a 600w MH like mine? our's look so different from each other. I just dropped my light so they stop stretching and fill out the little topped ones. I had my light around 20" above the canopy. It's around 14" to 16" now. I remember, when I last grew, getting my ac cooled light real close to the canopy. I bleached a few tops here and there LOL. I'm going more conservative this time and work more on the coverage. These girls are 16" to 20" tall. If I wasn't scrogging, I would have flipped them already. I'll probably flip them next week and squash 'em with the net.


I'm not sure why the difference but I do have great luck with the T5's and have used MH as well. Yours do seem to stretching more. The grow turned out nice but I would not run it again, I'm a picky mother fucker lol. I'm thinking of running chemdog next but not sure, it's a tough choice but need to choose soon as it's getting close


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## Budley Doright (Sep 1, 2017)

Here is a few more as it was finishing


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## JSB99 (Sep 1, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Who is the breeder? And yes I think mostly indica.


I didn't catch the breeder. These were cut from a clone. I picked her up from a local dispensary, grew her enough to take some cuttings, and that's what's in the tent. The mother from the original clone is flowering outside.



Budley Doright said:


> The grow turned out nice but I would not run it again, I'm a picky mother fucker lol. I'm thinking of running chemdog next but not sure, it's a tough choice but need to choose soon as it's getting close


I'm pretty picky myself. I really wanted GSCookies or Gorilla Glue, but that's what they had on-hand. I'm going to work on my collection of mums, from seeds, over time. I want to have some of any one of these: GSC, LSD, Lemon Kush, Blue Dream, GDP, Gorilla Glue #4, Jack Herer, Green Crack, and WW. I'll start ordering seeds in a couple months. I probably won't have even half of those, but those are the one's I like.

This is Lucy, my outside (day)/inside (night) Headband. She just started week 4 of flowering. The sativa version of Headband is supposed to flower for up to 10 weeks. I don't know what the indica is, but I would bet it's less. I'm trying to guesstimate how much she's going to yield. She's either got 5 or 7 weeks left, depending on the strain. I didn't have much time to train her. I topped her early on and did some LST to spread her out. I spent about a week defoliating her, so those are mostly flower leaves. She drinks between 1 1/2 to 2 gallons a day. She gets full-day summer sun (don't know if that's good or bad lol). I had to keep her slim to be able to fit through a couple doors. She barely makes it with me moving a couple branches inwards 

Anyone want to start placing bets on the yield?


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## JSB99 (Sep 1, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> View attachment 4003616 View attachment 4003614 Here is a few more as it was finishing


Do you remember the yield?


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## Budley Doright (Sep 1, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Do you remember the yield?


No lol. I don't weigh as a rule, but it was probably 17 mason jars as that's how many empty ones I had, just filled with my auto's I just put away . That's a beautiful plant, my outdoor ones are all hidden in the forest lol. i have no clue what each plant is other than there are 4 different strains, girlfriend didn't keep track when I had her transplant from trays to cups lol.


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## JSB99 (Sep 3, 2017)

Hmmmm...I tried to bend some branches over on the plants on the left side, by twisting the branches between my fingers. I must have been doing it too hard because I ended up supercropping all five branches 

No biggie. I was planning on supercropping anyways. Brought my screen down to support the bent branches a little, then did a little tucking and weaving. They're already looking up and supporting themselves. I'm probably going to start flowering towards the end of the week. It's not going to take much for these to fill out the screen.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 3, 2017)

well that's a bummer. Oh well they will be fine but, and I'm no expert as never done it lol, but perhaps you should have started tucking smaller tips and move the screen up a bit, it's going to start stretching and will double its height. You'll be weaving the branches like a basket lol. Again I know shit about it, I'll watch yours progress though as I may try it at some point.


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## JSB99 (Sep 3, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> well that's a bummer. Oh well they will be fine but, and I'm no expert as never done it lol, but perhaps you should have started tucking smaller tips and move the screen up a bit, it's going to start stretching and will double its height. You'll be weaving the branches like a basket lol. Again I know shit about it, I'll watch yours progress though as I may try it at some point.


I had never just bent them in the past. I always supercropping or trained them. Really, if I hadn't watched a couple YT vids on bending, I would've supercropping anyways.

Yeah, the screen is sort of low. I might raise it up a little and do some more weaving. I'm probably not going to be trying to fill in every little space. I'd probably have to add another week of vegging. I'd rather just finish them up sooner and get a new batch going.


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## JSB99 (Sep 4, 2017)

Just went outside with my lux meter. I'm only getting around 35k because of all the forest fire smoke!


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## Budley Doright (Sep 4, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Just went outside with my lux meter. I'm only getting around 35k because of all the forest fire smoke!


You in California?


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## JSB99 (Sep 4, 2017)

Oregon. Lots of wildfires burning since July. The Chetco Bar fire is the biggest in the country at around 140k acres. Cali's bad too though. My dad used to fight those fires.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 5, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Oregon. Lots of wildfires burning since July. The Chetco Bar fire is the biggest in the country at around 140k acres. Cali's bad too though. My dad used to fight those fires.


I was in Colorado a few years ago and we had to wet down the cabin, it was getting real close. It's bad everywhere but raining every day here it seems.


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## JSB99 (Sep 5, 2017)

Everything's coming along nicely.

Raised net to give a little more vertical space
Clipped some of the fans to let some light through to the lower branches
Supercropped
Week-4 on Thursday, still using the original water and nutes (will change when I flip them next Thursday)
pH has remained very stable
Nutes at 530, and have remained steady
Water temps always at 70 degrees using evaporative cooling


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## JSB99 (Sep 5, 2017)

Hey Budley, got a couple questions for ya

See how I've got this split between the leaves where nothing's growing? I think I topped too close or something. Are these two leaves contributing anything to the plant, or are they just sucking up energy just to be alive? Is there a way to get this to branch out, or should I just cut it so it's not taking up resources?

Alright, that was more than a couple


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## Budley Doright (Sep 5, 2017)

Not sure why they do that, I have one that is doing that now outdoors and I think it was I waited to long and it didn't split, yours does look like it did try to grow 2 nodes below the cut. I'm not sure what you should do, it looks like there will be no top . Hopefully someone else chimes in. I top at 3rd node once and that's it, indoors and out. The one I tried was already 6' tall and I was trying to slow it down, didn't work, it's 8' tall now lol. I left them all untouched and they are quite noticeable now, a bad thing for being an illegal grow lol.


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## JSB99 (Sep 5, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> The one I tried was already 6' tall and I was trying to slow it down, didn't work, it's 8' tall now lol. I left them all untouched and they are quite noticeable now, a bad thing for being an illegal grow lol.


I imagine it's nerve-racking when they're growing too good and you're just hoping no one notices. Hope everything goes smooth as a water slide, dude!


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## Budley Doright (Sep 6, 2017)

Me too lol. I've lost one or two big ones back in the day . It's the air traffic in the fall that gets the spider senses tingling . Hopefully they kind of slow down with the new laws coming.


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## JSB99 (Sep 8, 2017)

New pics this morning. Everything's looking good. I've been weaving branches and tying stuff down. I probably won't scrog after this grow. It's killing my back having to spend so much time on the plants. I'll just supercrop everything, like I used to.








Trimmed a lot of the lower stuff

*Before:*






*After:*







Yesterday, while I was moving branches around I noticed a huge branch that was broke in half and was barely holding on by a thread. I must have twisted it wrong earlier and broken it. I duct taped it together, without much hope of it surviving. But sure enough, everything popped back up today and things look healthy. I'm going to have to be real careful bending over the branches that need to be tied down after the break. I'm going to let it mend for a couple days before I mess with it.


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## JSB99 (Sep 8, 2017)

JSB99 said:


>


Saw some yellow spots. Looks like mites under the microscope. Drenched all the plants, above and underneath all leaves, with Dead Bug Brew. Turned down and raised the light until it all dries so I don't burn the leaves.

I've got to do some research to see if DBB works on whatever I've got. May need something with neem oil instead of a spinocad.


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## JSB99 (Sep 8, 2017)

Looks like spider mites. Cutting effected leaves off and I'm going to wipe down the leaves with dish soap.


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## rkymtnman (Sep 8, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Looks like spider mites. Cutting effected leaves off and I'm going to wipe down the leaves with dish soap.


better now than in bloom. 

you probably brought them in from your outdoor plant. my guess at least.


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## JSB99 (Sep 8, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> better now than in bloom.
> 
> you probably brought them in from your outdoor plant. my guess at least.


Most likely. I knew it was a high risk, but I'm shutting everything down for a month or so after harvest. Not keeping mother's or anything. I'll totally clean and sterilize the room during that time.

For now, I'm going to fight them and try to keep up. After I doused them with Dead Bug Brew, I painstakingly vacuumed each Leaf, front and back. I've got a micro adapter kit for a vacuum with small brushes and vacuum release. Now, I've got neem oil spray and I'm going to spray them again. After vacuuming I didn't see any mites, but I did see eggs. I'm probably going to wipe down the leaves to try and get those off. Will neem oil kill the eggs?

I caught it pretty early, and I'm hoping I can erradicate them, or at least keep them under control for the rest of the grow.


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## JSB99 (Sep 9, 2017)

Morning after my all-out attack on those Godless little fuckers! 

I'm not seeing any mites, movement, eggs, etc...I may have gotten ahold of things. In a few days I'll probably treat them all again and keep an eye on everything. I'll try to sterilize myself after handling my outside girl so I avoid contaminating them again.

Also treating my outside plant today, even though I'm not really seeing anything.


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## JSB99 (Sep 9, 2017)

All the dripping neem oil and bug brew caused the cardboard lid covers to curl up bad, so I took it all out. I was going to just throw a towel on top of each lid for a temporary fix, but then I remembered how much Hydroton I had left, and just used that instead. I think it looks kind of cool.


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## JSB99 (Sep 10, 2017)

Ended up with some wind burn. I think a few of the tops might have grown into the wind. 

A few questions:

I was going to flip them to flower today. Should I wait until this issue is fixed? Like a week?
Should I FIM these tops?
Should I top them right below the effected leaves?
Or should I just leave the girls alone and just flip them?







Thx


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## JSB99 (Sep 10, 2017)

I just flushed my system. I drained it, filled it, drained it, then filled and balanced it. I'm not running any nutes for a day or so, before I flip them.

Should I go any longer before adding nutes? Any shorter? At all?


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## JSB99 (Sep 13, 2017)

Outside plant, week-5 
I've got to tie up a few heavy branches tomorrow


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## JSB99 (Sep 16, 2017)

They're really taking off. I probably could have flipped them a week earlier. Oh well, there are a ton of tops! I'll just keep supercropping, bending, and tying branches down. I'm going to add a second tier soon, and I may even build a third, if they are persistent. They are only going to be in week-2 of flowering. This Headband is the indica strain. My outside girl's trichs are all milky white, and she is almost to week-7. Lots of dark orange hairs! Smells awesome! 
I'm really glad it's not the sativa strain. That would add another couple weeks to flowering.


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## JSB99 (Sep 23, 2017)

A couple days from flower, week-3

I just finished many days of defoliating, so it looks a little thin. Buds are popping up everywhere, so I'm sure it'll fill back up quickly.


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## JSB99 (Sep 23, 2017)

Better pics:













Approaching week-7:


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## JSB99 (Sep 29, 2017)

I was a little worried that I trimmed too many leaves during flower, but the canopy is filling out fine. I'll be putting in the upper SCROG net, to support the colas, soon. Where they're rising up some will be squashed a little by the upper net, plus, the weight of the buds should sink some of the branches as well.


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## Budley Doright (Sep 30, 2017)

Looks good!


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## JSB99 (Sep 30, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Looks good!


Thanks man!


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## JSB99 (Sep 30, 2017)

Mmmmmmmmmm....looks tasty! 


This is my inside/outside Headband. I did some amateur stuff in the beginning, and was so bogged down with building the grow room that I didn't have much time to dedicate to her. I had to keep her slim enough to fit through a bedroom door. What I should have done was built a tall, vertical scrog net around the perimeter of the tote, vegged her for a few extra weeks so she got nice and tall (6' or so), while training her through the net to keep her thin, rather than wide. Oh well, this will be the only time I do this anyways.

BTW, she's wet from a fairly rainy day.


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## XipXipXoom (Oct 1, 2017)

Have you considered not running airstones, just bare hose weighted down, due to the fact that large bubbles cause more turbulence and move the roots around a lot more, ensuring that oxygen-rich water is circulated throughout the root zone?

It's not just about having high DO in solution, it's also about delivering the oxygen to all available root surface area.


----------



## Budley Doright (Oct 2, 2017)

I've seen lots of root balls that die from the inside out due to lack of DO in the centre. I ditched stones years ago and now just use waterfall/fountain effect, keeping water at 66/67.


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## Jypsy Dog (Oct 2, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I've seen lots of root balls that die from the inside out due to lack of DO in the centre. I ditched stones years ago and now just use waterfall/fountain effect, keeping water at 66/67.


That makes NO sense. If O2 is Dissolved into the water, all water circulating in the solution carries O2. Unless the center is wrapped in plastic, it's getting the O2. That's like saying the center is not getting wet... And with the stone in the bottom of the bucket, the roots are also washed with O2.


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## Budley Doright (Oct 2, 2017)

Jypsy Dog said:


> That makes NO sense. If O2 is Dissolved into the water, all water circulating in the solution carries O2. Unless the center is wrapped in plastic, it's getting the O2. That's like saying the center is not getting wet... And with the stone in the bottom of the bucket, the roots are also washed with O2.


It's like saying there is no water circulation in the middle of the root ball and it gets stagnant and lacks DO.


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## Jypsy Dog (Oct 2, 2017)

I guess teasing the roots would fix that SIMPLE issue.


----------



## JSB99 (Oct 2, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> Have you considered not running airstones, just bare hose weighted down, due to the fact that large bubbles cause more turbulence and move the roots around a lot more, ensuring that oxygen-rich water is circulated throughout the root zone?
> 
> It's not just about having high DO in solution, it's also about delivering the oxygen to all available root surface area.


Nah, the airstones are working great. I've got one below each netpot and I'm using a 70L commercial air pump just for those four 4" cylinder airstones. They create a huge amount of air! 

Plants seem to agree


----------



## JSB99 (Oct 2, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> It's like saying there is no water circulation in the middle of the root ball and it gets stagnant and lacks DO.


I have so many bubbles that there's a 1/2" plume where the bubbles reach the surface. The roots under each netpot are spread out wide, like fingers. I have no doubt that the roots are getting plenty of DO.


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## Budley Doright (Oct 3, 2017)

I'm not saying there is an issue with any plants in this thread, just saying I have seen it many times, where the root ball gets so big the water stops circulating through the center, and yes it can be a SIMPLE fix, add more bubbles lol.


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## Budley Doright (Oct 3, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I have so many bubbles that there's a 1/2" plume where the bubbles reach the surface. The roots under each netpot are spread out wide, like fingers. I have no doubt that the roots are getting plenty of DO.


It's pretty easy to spot a plant that lacks DO and yours look fine. When I see a grow here that has a flooded root zone and OP is complaining about lock out due to leaves turning white and starting to wrinkle up, 9 times out of 10 it's a root issue. And yup the biggest help is a cool res .


----------



## JSB99 (Oct 3, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> It's pretty easy to spot a plant that lacks DO and yours look fine. When I see a grow here that has a flooded root zone and OP is complaining about lock out due to leaves turning white and starting to wrinkle up, 9 times out of 10 it's a root issue. And yup the biggest help is a cool res .


Exactly!


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## JSB99 (Oct 3, 2017)

Flower, week-4, day-1


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## Niblixdark (Oct 3, 2017)

Looks about right for week 4.


----------



## Jypsy Dog (Oct 3, 2017)

Could almost use another screen. Nice work.


----------



## JSB99 (Oct 3, 2017)

Jypsy Dog said:


> Could almost use another screen. Nice work.


Thx, man!

I'm going to build another screen soon. It'll be to support the colas, but I may be able to squash 'em down a bit with it. I've still got a little headroom, and the light's cool at 16", where I've got it. As long as I don't burn them, I think I'll be okay.

First time I've grown in about 10 years. A little out of practice


----------



## XipXipXoom (Oct 3, 2017)

Small bubbles can also get stuck/cling to the roots easier, and gaseous oxygen is of no use to roots. It has to be dissolved. Not saying you can't have healthy roots with small bubbles, just postulating the idea that large ones may, at least in some ways, be better. Airstones restrict the volume of airflow in any case. Easier maintenance with open hose, too.


Jypsy Dog said:


> Could almost use another screen. Nice work.


 Not a bad idea. I saw a grow once that had 4 screens. It was all 4-5ft tall lollipops, no branches, recirculating drip in Rockwool cubes.


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## JSB99 (Oct 3, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> Small bubbles can also get stuck/cling to the roots easier, and gaseous oxygen is of no use to roots. It has to be dissolved. Not saying you can't have healthy roots with small bubbles, just postulating the idea that large ones may, at least in some ways, be better. Airstones restrict the volume of airflow in any case. Easier maintenance with open hose, too. Not a bad idea. I saw a grow once that had 4 screens. It was all 4-5ft tall lollipops, no branches, recirculating drip in Rockwool cubes.


LOL! "4 screens"! Someone may need a little more practice at scrogging than myself


----------



## XipXipXoom (Oct 3, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> LOL! "4 screens"! Someone may need a little more practice at scrogging than myself


 It wasn't a scrog so much as a very tall sog, supported by screens. I think the purpose of no branches was the idea that water, nutrients and hormones are best delivered along the apical meristem. I think his idea was you get the most AAA prime tops this way, and less larf/smalls, even if the net yield is smaller. This was done by one of the top(quality, not yield) commercial growers in my state.


----------



## Jypsy Dog (Oct 4, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> Small bubbles can also get stuck/cling to the roots easier, and gaseous oxygen is of no use to roots. It has to be dissolved. Not saying you can't have healthy roots with small bubbles, just postulating the idea that large ones may, at least in some ways, be better. Airstones restrict the volume of airflow in any case. Easier maintenance with open hose, too.


First.. 02 IS A GAS... And once again info pulled from a Butt and NOT washed B4 sharing. https://www.acniti.com/technology/different-bubbles-sizes-and-why-it-matters-to-the-properties/


----------



## JSB99 (Oct 4, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> It wasn't a scrog so much as a very tall sog, supported by screens. I think the purpose of no branches was the idea that water, nutrients and hormones are best delivered along the apical meristem. I think his idea was you get the most AAA prime tops this way, and less larf/smalls, even if the net yield is smaller. This was done by one of the top(quality, not yield) commercial growers in my state.


It sounds like an experiment . Do you remember the yield? I bet he had some interesting results. I imagine the distance water had to travel up the stock had a negative effect on the growth. But that's just a theory.


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## JSB99 (Oct 4, 2017)

Jypsy Dog said:


> First.. 02 IS A GAS... And once again info pulled from a Butt and NOT washed B4 sharing. https://www.acniti.com/technology/different-bubbles-sizes-and-why-it-matters-to-the-properties/


Yep, it sounds like gas pulled from his butt. Probably smells that way too LOL


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## Jypsy Dog (Oct 4, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Yep, it sounds like gas pulled from his butt. Probably smells that way too LOL


Keep seeing this CRAP about bubble size. They comment with NO FUKIN research on the subject. Just wash off the shit B4 you share!!!


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## JSB99 (Oct 4, 2017)

Jypsy Dog said:


> Keep seeing this CRAP about bubble size. They comment with NO FUKIN research on the subject. Just wash off the shit B4 you share!!!


Misinformation is the bane of the new grower.


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## JSB99 (Oct 5, 2017)

SCROG net #2

My fingers were so sticky from moving branches through the net!


----------



## Niblixdark (Oct 5, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Misinformation is the bane of the new grower.


Just drop them stones in the damn bucket ! Lol


----------



## Jypsy Dog (Oct 5, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> SCROG net #2
> 
> My fingers were so sticky from moving branches through the net!
> 
> View attachment 4021953 View attachment 4021954 View attachment 4021955


Crazy how they POP right back to work. Looks great!


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## JSB99 (Oct 5, 2017)

I turned up the fans and moved the light closer, to about 14". Can anyone tell me how deep my 600 watt HPS penetrates the canopy?


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## JSB99 (Oct 5, 2017)

Jypsy Dog said:


> Crazy how they POP right back to work. Looks great!


Thx!


----------



## Niblixdark (Oct 5, 2017)




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## JSB99 (Oct 5, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> View attachment 4021972


Sweet! Very helpful! I've got a lux meter, but having a visual layout helps!


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## JSB99 (Oct 5, 2017)

I'm debating trimming off some of the old, large leaves, but I'm in week-4. Early on I cleaned up a bunch, so I'm able to see through the canopy (barely).

Opinions?


----------



## Niblixdark (Oct 5, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I'm debating trimming off some of the old, large leaves, but I'm in week-4. Early on I cleaned up a bunch, so I'm able to see through the canopy (barely).
> 
> Opinions?



If it's super bushy by all means. Most pruning should be done by week 3 but you can always defoliate here and there to maintain some sort of uniformity.


----------



## Jypsy Dog (Oct 5, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I'm debating trimming off some of the old, large leaves, but I'm in week-4. Early on I cleaned up a bunch, so I'm able to see through the canopy (barely).
> 
> Opinions?


Should have done that B4 the new addition.


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## JSB99 (Oct 5, 2017)

Jypsy Dog said:


> Should have done that B4 the new addition.


No biggie. I've got room to work, and I'm 6'3" so I've got long arms. I may be a dork, a nerd, and a dweeb, but I'm tall, and that's something! 

Now everyone, golf clap  LOL!


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## JSB99 (Oct 5, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> If it's super bushy by all means. Most pruning should be done by week 3 but you can always defoliate here and there to maintain some sort of uniformity.


I actually did defoliate the first week of flower. The canopy was pretty thin, and I was concerned about how much was going to grow after that. But everything filled out nicely during stretch.


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## JSB99 (Oct 5, 2017)

I started trimming from the bottom, but there are so many buds that it's hard to work around them. Doing anything from the top always results in my bopping some buds on the head by accident LOL! I think I'm just going to leave them alone to do their thing.


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## JSB99 (Oct 5, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> View attachment 4021972


I think what I was actually trying to figure out is how much light passes through the leaves to the lower ones. I read that 85% of the light passes through the leaves, but is that sunlight, or any kind of light?


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## XipXipXoom (Oct 6, 2017)

Jypsy Dog said:


> Keep seeing this CRAP about bubble size. YThey comment with NO FUKIN research on the subject. Just wash off the shit B4 you share!!!


 No need to get hostile. I understand that smaller bubbles have more surface area and in turn are capable of imparting more DO, but fact is that water at a given temp can only hold so much DO before it becomes saturated. If you hit the saturation point with larger bubbles, smaller bubbles will not increase it any further. Most O2 is dissolved from water circulating at the surface anyway, which is why waterfalls and powerheads work so well.
I don't want to argue. I just thought I'd provide a different POV and some food for thought.
Later


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 6, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> No need to get hostile. I understand that smaller bubbles have more surface area and in turn are capable of imparting more DO, but fact is that water at a given temp can only hold so much DO before it becomes saturated. If you hit the saturation point with larger bubbles, smaller bubbles will not increase it any further. Most O2 is dissolved from water circulating at the surface anyway, which is why waterfalls and powerheads work so well.
> I don't want to argue. I just thought I'd provide a different POV and some food for thought.
> Later


I took this same idea to heart years ago and I designed my RDWC system with waterfalls in each tubsite. It works great and I only need one pump for the whole system.

Don't let grumpy posters chase you off. Clearly you have plenty to contribute and I'm interested in hearing it!


----------



## Niblixdark (Oct 7, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I took this same idea to heart years ago and I designed my RDWC system with waterfalls in each tubsite. It works great and I only need one pump for the whole system.
> 
> Don't let grumpy posters chase you off. Clearly you have plenty to contribute and I'm interested in hearing it!


With a RDWC system using two lines in at top of lid and one out at the bottom gives pretty good DO but a stone or even two in a 5G bucket fully saturates the roots with O2 under the rootball. 2 lines are best in my opinion because one can always clog up.


----------



## JSB99 (Oct 7, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> With a RDWC system using two lines in at top of lid and one out at the bottom gives pretty good DO but a stone or even two in a 5G bucket fully saturates the roots with O2 under the rootball. 2 lines are best in my opinion because one can always clog up.


That's why I'm using both a waterfall, and a 70/LPM pump to 4, 4" cylinder stones (one under each netpot). If either my air pump or water pump goes out, things will still work until I get a replacement. 

Redundancy


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## JSB99 (Oct 7, 2017)

Winterized the room. The hood air intake now draws air from the hallway vent through the closet, and the fan exhausts the air directly into the room. My house is usually between 64 and 66 degrees, which is comfortable to me, and the room stays between 75 and 79 degrees. Because the fan creates positive pressure in the room, the room exhausts the warm air into the adjacent room. If I get the odd, out of season, warm day, all I have to do is slip the ceiling exhaust duct onto the fan. Probably take a few seconds!

After this grow I'm going to add another vent, which will be used by the hood's intake, and then I'll reconnect the 4" fan. The new duct will be connected to a vent in the adjacent closet. The reason I'm not going to use the hood fan for double duty, as cooling the closet as well as cooling the light is because the hood's demand and the closet's demand will be different from each other.


----------



## JSB99 (Oct 10, 2017)

Bud porn from my inside/outside girl. If I had known I was going to put her outside from the start, I would have done some things differently, that would have increased yield. But, I still got a pretty decent amount.


----------



## JSB99 (Oct 12, 2017)

Week-5


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## XipXipXoom (Oct 13, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> I took this same idea to heart years ago and I designed my RDWC system with waterfalls in each tubsite. It works great and I only need one pump for the whole system.
> 
> Don't let grumpy posters chase you off. Clearly you have plenty to contribute and I'm interested in hearing it!


OK well then let me continue. Oxygen is only one half of roots respiration. Roots inspire oxygen and expire CO2. So getting rid of the CO2 is just as important as introducing fresh oxygen. This is where the increased circulation from larger bubbles is beneficial, and this is why rooms with Co2 supplementation should have their air pumps, and reservoirs if possible, in a different, non-CO2 enriched room.

Compare this to humans. What happens if you give a healthy person 50% or 100% oxygen for an extended period of time? Their respiratory drive goes down, their breaths get shallower and less breathes per minute. They are still getting enough O2, but since their rate of respiration has gone down, CO2 builds up in their blood, driving their blood pH down. Same thing happens with plants. You need to get rid of the CO2 and supply O2, and this is where sufficient circulation is important.

Look at the circulation caused by this course bubble diffuser. There are smaller bubbles moving laterally, and even downward, all around the tank. You can have too much turbulence when you start tearing roots, though.





Now compare that to this conventional airstone and O2 grow emitter.





WAY less circulation around the tank with the smaller bubbles. Yes they are supplying plenty of o2, but they are doing much less for circulation and surface agitation, and you need to get the respired CO2 up and out of the surface. Ideally you would have a combination of large and small bubbles, but the typical aquarium airstones put out bubbles smaller than ideal for plant roots IMO


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 13, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> OK well then let me continue. Oxygen is only one half of roots respiration. Roots inspire oxygen and expire CO2. So getting rid of the CO2 is just as important as introducing fresh oxygen. This is where the increased circulation from larger bubbles is beneficial, and this is why rooms with Co2 supplementation should have their air pumps, and reservoirs if possible, in a different, non-CO2 enriched room.
> 
> Compare this to humans. What happens if you give a healthy person 50% or %100 oxygen for an extended period of time? Their respiratory drive goes down, their breaths get shallower and less breathes per minute. They are still getting enough O2, but since their rate of respiration has gone down, CO2 builds up in their blood, driving their blood pH down. Same thing happens with plants. You need to get rid of the CO2 and supply O2, and this is where respiration/circulation is important.
> 
> ...


build a waterfall, ditch the airstones. problem solved with a 4 dollar water pump, some tubing and a few 90deg fittings


----------



## XipXipXoom (Oct 13, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> build a waterfall, ditch the airstones. problem solved with a 4 dollar water pump, some tubing and a few 90deg fittings


I agree. Circulation is most important.


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 13, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> I agree. Circulation is most important.


that and they create more DO than an airstone/airpump and keep your nutes well mixed too.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 14, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> that and they create more DO than an airstone/airpump and keep your nutes well mixed too.


Pushing nutrient solution through the roots is very helpful in both oxygenation and ensuring they get all the nutes they want.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 14, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> OK well then let me continue. Oxygen is only one half of roots respiration. Roots inspire oxygen and expire CO2. So getting rid of the CO2 is just as important as introducing fresh oxygen. This is where the increased circulation from larger bubbles is beneficial, and this is why rooms with Co2 supplementation should have their air pumps, and reservoirs if possible, in a different, non-CO2 enriched room.
> 
> Compare this to humans. What happens if you give a healthy person 50% or 100% oxygen for an extended period of time? Their respiratory drive goes down, their breaths get shallower and less breathes per minute. They are still getting enough O2, but since their rate of respiration has gone down, CO2 builds up in their blood, driving their blood pH down. Same thing happens with plants. You need to get rid of the CO2 and supply O2, and this is where sufficient circulation is important.
> 
> ...


If this were the case, then no deep water culture system would work. CO2 at the soil level doesn't come from roots, it comes from decomposition and composting in the soil.


----------



## Budget Buds (Oct 14, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Winterized the room.
> ATTACH=full]4023013[/ATTACH] View attachment 4023014 View attachment 4023015


A nice clean room, organized and efficient, I like it and see so few rooms like them , Great job  BB


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## JSB99 (Oct 14, 2017)

Budget Buds said:


> A nice clean room, organized and efficient, I like it and see so few rooms like them , Great job  BB


Thanks BB! I didn't want an eyesore in my house since it's probably going to be like that for years. But more important than that is that maintenance is so minimal with this setup! It took a lot of planning and work to build, but a lot of issues have been avoided.


----------



## dstroy (Oct 14, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> If this were the case, then no deep water culture system would work. CO2 at the soil level doesn't come from roots, it comes from decomposition and composting in the soil.


He linked to an O2grow vid which makes me immediately suspicious.


----------



## XipXipXoom (Oct 14, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> If this were the case, then no deep water culture system would work. CO2 at the soil level doesn't come from roots, it comes from decomposition and composting in the soil.


 only part of the co2 comes from microflora/fauna, but up to 50% of the co2 in soil come from the roots. 

From wikipedia


> Soil respiration refers to the production of carbon dioxide when soil organisms respire. This includes respiration of plant roots, the rhizosphere, microbes and fauna.





dstroy said:


> He linked to an O2grow vid which makes me immediately suspicious.


If you suspect I'm a shill for o2grow, I don't see why. If anything, my post points out that o2grow does nothing for removal of co2.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 15, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> only part of the co2 comes from microflora/fauna, but up to 50% of the co2 in soil come from the roots.


And why is it relevant?


----------



## dstroy (Oct 15, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> Small bubbles can also get stuck/cling to the roots easier, and gaseous oxygen is of no use to roots. It has to be dissolved. Not saying you can't have healthy roots with small bubbles, just postulating the idea that large ones may, at least in some ways, be better. Airstones restrict the volume of airflow in any case. Easier maintenance with open hose, too. Not a bad idea. I saw a grow once that had 4 screens. It was all 4-5ft tall lollipops, no branches, recirculating drip in Rockwool cubes.


Gaseous oxygen is of no use to roots?

Better go tell that to literally every plant that's growing in dirt.

Before you open your mouth and start trying to tell other people "how it is", you should be certain yourself.

Of course roots can absorb gaseous oxygen.

The best part is that you link to a Wikipedia article on soil respiration, which is only part of the picture, and doesn't support your position.


----------



## JSB99 (Oct 15, 2017)

dstroy said:


> Gaseous oxygen is of no use to roots?
> 
> Better go tell that to literally every plant that's growing in dirt.
> 
> ...


I think someone's representing a product that does nothing more than what's already being done, but with a shiny new paint job and a price tag above what any experienced grower would dare spend.

@XipXipXoom, all you've shown us are smaller bubbles! Show us a side by side comparison, or at least a grow you, or anyone else, have completed using this method! After all, how are we supposed to be convinced it works if we can't even see the end results?!?

Again, if this worked, it would already be used by lots of advanced growers. But you, obviously an inexperienced grower, are touting this as the next big breakthrough, based only on an untested theory someone convinced you of reading.


----------



## JSB99 (Oct 15, 2017)

This is from my inside/outside plant. 8.3oz/235gr dry

I have the sativa Headband strain, which is a low yielder. I didn't know that when I got the clone. If I had spent some time on her, I might have been able to double the yield. I've got some GSC, Blue Dream, and Grape Ape beans coming, so next year my outside grows should be much more substantial. Also plan on getting SSH seeds, and I'll plant one of each, in 10-gallon Smart Pots, in my back yard next year.

I've got to get me a few cases of 64oz Ball Jars!


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## JSB99 (Oct 17, 2017)

Dropped the hood closer to the tops, and lost some of the footprint. So I added some supplemental lights in the corners.


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## XipXipXoom (Oct 17, 2017)

dstroy said:


> Gaseous oxygen is of no use to roots?


That's correct. Same way it's of no use to fish. Plants and fish breathe aqueous oxygen. The O2 in dirt has to first be dissolved into the water in the dirt, from the air in the dirt. Thats why you have to let dirt dry out between waterings but DWC roots can stay wet all the time.


ttystikk said:


> And why is it relevant?


You can't have a discussion about oxygen respiration without including carbon dioxide.


Wikipedia said:


> Root respiration usually accounts for approximately half of all soil respiration. However, these values can range from 10–90% depending on the dominate plant types in an ecosystem and conditions under which the plants are subjected.


 In DWC 90%+ is coming from the roots. Taking CO2 away is just as important as delivering oxygen, but rarely discussed. A lot of nurses crank patients oxygen up without thinking about that. Just thinking that more is better.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> You can't have a discussion about oxygen respiration without including carbon dioxide.


When discussing oxygen availability at the root zone, yes we can. There's no photosynthesis going on, so no carbon dioxide.


----------



## vilify (Oct 17, 2017)

On the original topic. I just replaced 3 x 80 l/min Atila air pumps and 1 x EcoPlus Commerical 7, with a single blower for a spa/hot tub and I have more aeration. Split between 2 x 24 site 13 gallon RDWC systems. Interested to see the longevity as the blower cost <$100 and replaced about $600 in equipment.

Can't post pictures atm.


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## XipXipXoom (Oct 17, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> When discussing oxygen availability at the root zone, yes we can. There's no photosynthesis going on, so no carbon dioxide.


That's only true at night.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 17, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> That's only true at night.


Perhaps, but you're missing the point. Unlike oxygen, there's no minimum required amount of CO2 in the substrate. The plants don't need it at the root zone to grow.


----------



## JSB99 (Oct 17, 2017)

vilify said:


> On the original topic. I just replaced 3 x 80 l/min Atila air pumps and 1 x EcoPlus Commerical 7, with a single blower for a spa/hot tub and I have more aeration. Split between 2 x 24 site 13 gallon RDWC systems. Interested to see the longevity as the blower cost <$100 and replaced about $600 in equipment.
> 
> Can't post pictures atm.


Damn! That rocks!!! Is that blower loud?


----------



## vilify (Oct 18, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Damn! That rocks!!! Is that blower loud?


It's a lot louder than the atila(considering they're near silent) for sure units but not terrible. A simple box around the blower would silence it pretty well.


----------



## dstroy (Oct 18, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> That's correct. Same way it's of no use to fish. Plants and fish breathe aqueous oxygen. The O2 in dirt has to first be dissolved into the water in the dirt, from the air in the dirt. Thats why you have to let dirt dry out between waterings but DWC roots can stay wet all the time..


I'm assuming you meant dissolved oxygen, not aqueous oxygen. They're two separate things.

Actually, plants do use gaseous oxygen. It is easier for them to absorb dissolved oxygen, but they use the GASEOUS oxygen found in the spaces between soil particles. Which is why soil respiration is an important part of the cycle, because it replenishes gases. But it's not the whole picture, and it actually supports the opposite of your position.

You have to let the dirt dry because the plants use the dissolved oxygen in the water fairly quickly, and if the soil remains saturated all of the available oxygen is depleted.

Doesn't matter if it's a gas or dissolved.

http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=730

So you can take your uninformed, misguided opinions elsewhere. Do some research before you try and act like you know what you're talking about.

You can't take anecdotal evidence, and then represent it as scientific fact. That's unethical.

Your ASSUMPTIONS are WRONG.


----------



## mytwhyt (Oct 18, 2017)

Fish that can breath air, 

Climbing Perch. ...
Walking Catfish. ...
Mudskippers
Snakehead


----------



## JSB99 (Oct 19, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> That's only true at night.


Quick question, do you grow? I'm really curious about that. If so, what method do you use?


----------



## mytwhyt (Oct 19, 2017)

Not on riu lately, on 420 mostly, Waterfarms, Lucas formula, Flora Nova Bloom only... 12 and 14 oz finished.. Sorry thought that question was for me...


----------



## Billy Liar (Oct 21, 2017)

A bit of food for thought on the bubble size discussion.

http://horttech.ashspublications.org/content/19/1/212.full

Peace
BL


----------



## Anon Emaus (Oct 21, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Bud porn from my inside/outside girl. If I had known I was going to put her outside from the start, I would have done some things differently, that would have increased yield. But, I still got a pretty decent amount.
> 
> View attachment 4024741 View attachment 4024742 View attachment 4024744 View attachment 4024746


Beautiful buds man. Just curious, whats with the water jugs hanging on the lines?


----------



## JSB99 (Oct 21, 2017)

Anon Emaus said:


> Beautiful buds man. Just curious, whats with the water jugs hanging on the lines?


Thx!

The jugs were to add tension to the lines so I could hang branches all the way across. That was just a temp setup though. Being an outside plant, I didn't want to hang them in my grow room, where I built a drying rack for indoor plants. She was bug-free, but you just never know what's lying dormant 

This is the drying rack in my grow room. I'll probably add a pipe to the front to pull the first few lines tight.


----------



## JSB99 (Oct 21, 2017)

Got my 2ft, 4-lamp t5 today, for my mum's. I've got GSC, Blue Dream, and Grape Ape beans coming, but I can't plant anything until I get back from x-mas vaca. The universal guide on bonsai mums says to grow them from clones. I would've thought that mum's grown from seeds would be recommended over clones. Is there any difference? I know clones have offset shoots compared to them being even when grown from seed. Not sure if that makes any difference.

 

My bubble Cloner on the bottom. The wood rods keep the sides from bowing out when filled with water. I could've used a more durable tote, but for the space, this one fits really well. It'll work for now.


I had "winterized" the room by exhausting the hood air into the room, now that its cool, but I had a hard time regulating the heat build-up in the room. So I went back to my original setup.
 

Buds are coming along nicely! The buds under the CFLs have bulked up quite a bit! I've got the hood about 14" from the tops. Any closer and I lose too much coverage. I'd like to get a 1k and run it at 750, along with with a Blockbuster hood, to get the coverage I want without having to hang CFLs. Ultimately I plan on building a COB array that'll cover everything, but that's a little pricey, so I might do the 1k thing until I can afford it.


----------



## JSB99 (Oct 22, 2017)

Vaped a couple bags of new batch last night. I vape throughout the day, so I could only get a hint of the quality. Definitely gave me bump up! This morning, after my coffee, I vaped a bag. I got a strong, energetic stone! It's been curing for a week, so it's good enough to smoke, but it hasn't hit it's peak flavor yet. As a first time grower in a long time, and being a strain I've never grown before, I was a little worried about it not turning out great, at a time where I just can't afford to buy any more. Thankfully, this is really taking the aches and soreness away, and is a strong high without a hint of couch lock! Without bias, I'd say mine is as strong, if not stronger, than what I get from the pharm! They're a large-scale, licensed grower with a lot of big fields, so they probably grow more for bulk, and less for strains that may be more potent, but not big yielders. Headband is a low yielder, but I can tell it'll take less to get me where I need to be.

 


Wonder how my inside plants are going to compare. The buds are getting pretty plump, and I've got more than a month to go. It'll be a comparison between sun-grown in coco, and light-grown in an RDWC. I've got the TDS around 1k, and just barely burning the tips. So, as Scottie would say, "I'm giving her as she's got, Captain, but the crystals can't take much more!"


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## XipXipXoom (Oct 22, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Perhaps, but you're missing the point. Unlike oxygen, there's no minimum required amount of CO2 in the substrate. The plants don't need it at the root zone to grow.


No minumum, but a maximum. If the substrate has high levels of co2, the roots will have a harder time expiring co2. This is why you don't run co2 at night. With no psii taking place, plants take in o2 through their stomata at night, and expire co2. Running co2 at night makes it harder for them to respire.

In the same way, high soil/dwc co2 levels make it harder for roots to respire. If your only running waterfalls in a co2 supp room, you could be raising your waters dissolved co2. An air pump pumping in air from a low Co2 room can help in that case. Not in raising oxygen, but in lowering co2, which will still allow roots to respire easier as well as reduce ph swings.


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## ttystikk (Oct 22, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> No minumum, but a maximum. If the substrate has high levels of co2, the roots will have a harder time expiring co2. This is why you don't run co2 at night. With no psii taking place, plants take in o2 through their stomata at night, and expire co2. Running co2 at night makes it harder for them to respire.
> 
> In the same way, high soil/dwc co2 levels make it harder for roots to respire. If your only running waterfalls in a co2 supp room, you could be raising your waters dissolved co2. An air pump pumping in air from a low Co2 room can help in that case. Not in raising oxygen, but in lowering co2, which will still allow roots to respire easier as well as reduce ph swings.


Except that the evidence- observed plant growth- doesn't bear this out.


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## JSB99 (Oct 22, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Except that the evidence- observed plant growth- doesn't bear this out.


You know, you're arguing with someone who's really pushing this untested method of creating bubbles, but the dude doesn't have a grow to show, using ANY method!

This is a prime example of something looking good on paper or in theory, being disastrous in the real world.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 22, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> You know, you're arguing with someone who's really pushing this untested method of creating bubbles, but the dude doesn't have a grow to show, using ANY method!
> 
> This is a prime example of something looking good on paper or in theory, being disastrous in the real world.


Agreed, which is why I keep pointing out empirical evidence.


----------



## JSB99 (Oct 22, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Agreed, which is why I keep pointing out empirical evidence.


I pointed it out earlier, but I'll try to make my point to @XipXipXoom as clear as possible.

If this method is so great, why aren't there others on here chiming in with their own experiences? There are some real cutting-edge growers on this site pushing the limits of technology to grow the biggest, most potent buds in the world, in the most efficient way possible. Being a noob, I highly doubt you're introducing technology that's so cutting edge, the pros here haven't even gotten wind of it!


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## JSB99 (Oct 24, 2017)

Got my seeds today from Aurora Winds Botanical today!

Ordered GSC, Blue Dream, and Grape Ape, and the owner is looking for some GG4 beans for me!

I've got to give props to this site! Quick feedback on questions, as well as shipping! He's based out of AZ, and his seeds are very reasonably priced! He's got a good collection available, with available strains changing often!


----------



## rkymtnman (Oct 24, 2017)

what brand of T5 did you buy? and how much if you don't mind me asking? 

i need something for a 2x2 tent


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## JSB99 (Oct 24, 2017)

It's a "Virtual Sun", which is probably some knock-off, but it was inexpensive, solid, and works great! Got it for $59.99 on Amazon.

Virtual Sun T5


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## rkymtnman (Oct 24, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> It's a "Virtual Sun", which is probably some knock-off, but it was inexpensive, solid, and works great! Got it for $59.99 on Amazon.
> 
> Virtual Sun T5


thanks.

how tall do you think a plant could be under it and still have enough light? i'm trying to setup a veg tent 2x2. you think 96 watts is enough? my LED is too big (almost 350 watts in veg mode) which is like 90 watts/sq foot


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## JSB99 (Oct 24, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> thanks.
> 
> how tall do you think a plant could be under it and still have enough light? i'm trying to setup a veg tent 2x2. you think 96 watts is enough? my LED is too big (almost 350 watts in veg mode) which is like 90 watts/sq foot


After a few inch gap, you'd have around 10" to 12" of usable light ranging from 10k to 24k lumens. I would say that this is probably about perfect for that size of a tent. I've vegged larger than that just with CFLs 

As far as how tall? probably up to 14" or so. Best guess


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## JSB99 (Oct 24, 2017)

When you grow under it, the girls will probably be more squat than with an HID or led. But that's usually more preferable when growing inside. I'm thinking of getting another one for vegging up to around week-3, in the tent. It would just hang under the reflector hood during that time.


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## rkymtnman (Oct 24, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> When you grow under it, the girls will probably be more squat than with an HID or led. But that's usually more preferable when growing inside. I'm thinking of getting another one for vegging up to around week-3, in the tent. It would just hang under the reflector hood during that time.


yeah, i'm trying to set up a kinda perpetual grow. start them in the 2x2 and cycle them into the bloom room when they get big enough. 

any idea how many hours you can get out of the T5 bulbs? and i'm guessing yours has the 4 6500K bulbs right?


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## JSB99 (Oct 24, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> yeah, i'm trying to set up a kinda perpetual grow. start them in the 2x2 and cycle them into the bloom room when they get big enough.
> 
> any idea how many hours you can get out of the T5 bulbs? and i'm guessing yours has the 4 6500K bulbs right?


I used to do perpetual grows but instead of using mother's, I would repetitive clone until the time was right to start vegging. Everything depends on when the harvest is to time it right. Takes some of your free time keeping up with everything though lol

The bulbs are 10,000 hours, which is pretty standard. I don't think they lose lumens over time like HIDs, or at least not nearly as much.

The bulbs are all 6500k. That was one of the downsides of this order, no mix and match. But they're really cheap. I'm going to replace a couple of mum's light with 3000k's, but my veg T5 will stay all 6500k.


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## JSB99 (Oct 25, 2017)

My indoor plants have tighter buds than the one I grew outside. Seems to have more triches too. Everything is covered and glistening! Wonder if that because of growing via rdwc vs coco.

I've got some of these big fan leaves left. Should I trim some of these, to get more light to the lower buds, or are they useful during flower? I did a lot of trimming, from around week-4 - week-7, then pretty much stopped. I'm in week-6 right now. Does anyone prune this late in flower, to promote growth and remove shade?
 

Lots of triches!!!
 

Not bad for a first SCROG. There are a lot of buds right under the net that are getting a lot of light.


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## JSB99 (Oct 27, 2017)

Flower, week-6. Lots of frosty trichomes!


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## Mass Medicinals (Oct 28, 2017)

Wow!


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## JSB99 (Nov 1, 2017)

Some close-up bud porn!  I'm in week-7, with 2 - 3 more weeks. Triches are clear right now. Headband (sativa) takes up to 10-weeks.


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## Cx2H (Nov 1, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Some close-up bud porn!  I'm in week-7, with 2 - 3 more weeks. Triches are clear right now. Headband (sativa) takes up to 10-weeks.
> 
> View attachment 4036490 View attachment 4036491 View attachment 4036492 View attachment 4036493


HB takes 70-77 days and classified as a hybrid. OG Kush/sour diesel.


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## JSB99 (Nov 1, 2017)

Cx2H said:


> HB takes 70-77 days and classified as a hybrid. OG Kush/sour diesel.


But there's also an indica-heavy strain of HB as well.


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## JSB99 (Nov 1, 2017)

Cx2H said:


> HB takes 70-77 days and classified as a hybrid. OG Kush/sour diesel.


I'm trying to find the info on the Sativa dominant strain, and the indica dominant strain, but now I can't find it LOL


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## JSB99 (Nov 2, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> But there's also an indica-heavy strain of HB as well.


I meant there's also a "sativa dominant strain", which isn't as common as the indica dominant strain. Mine show a lot more sativa characteristics than indica. Earlier in this thread, there are some pics from someone who was growing the indica dominant HB, and there's quite a bit of difference between his and mine.

But I've been wrong before LOL


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## Mass Medicinals (Nov 2, 2017)

Can you see any amber trichomes yet? Are you down to the final 4 weeks yet?


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## JSB99 (Nov 2, 2017)

Mass Medicinals said:


> Can you see any amber trichomes yet? Are you down to the final 4 weeks yet?


They're mostly clear right now, and the pistils are still bleach-white. There are only a few milky triches, so I've probably got a couple weeks left. That's why I'm fairly sure I've got the sativa dominant HB. I'm in week-9 of flower, and still have a bit to go. A lot longer than the indica dominant HB.


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## JSB99 (Nov 4, 2017)

Calyxes getting more and more swollen and frosty


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## JSB99 (Nov 4, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Calyxes getting more and more swollen and frosty
> 
> View attachment 4037876 View attachment 4037878 View attachment 4037875 View attachment 4037874


If only there was a way to upload the lemony diesel smell, as an attachment!


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## Budley Doright (Nov 12, 2017)

I haven't been here for a bit but wow, nice job. I think you've made up my mind re: training, looks 100 % better than my tangled mess lol. Great grow!!! Smoke report is greatly anticipated .


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## JSB99 (Nov 12, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I haven't been here for a bit but wow, nice job. I think you've made up my mind re: training, looks 100 % better than my tangled mess lol. Great grow!!! Smoke report is greatly anticipated .


Thanks! My branches are all over the place, below the canopy. I have some branches I supercropped in one direction, then supercropped the exact opposite direction! When stocks are growing up to the light, and outgrowing lower parts of the plants, I just did what I could to control the height!

Next time I'll be growing more traditionally, with just some LST, topping, and supercropping. I won't have as many tops, but my grows will take much less time. SCROGGING is so much work, IMHO!


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## Budley Doright (Nov 12, 2017)

I'm just very impatient and only veg for 20-39 days. Scrog has always seemed to be a long term commitment lol. I also try to do to many plants ;(.


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## JSB99 (Nov 16, 2017)

Some bud porn! HB is known for smaller nuggets, but even the real small buds are puffed up, and covered in trichomes. Everything in between the two nets are growing great!

  

Snowblind


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## JSB99 (Nov 16, 2017)

I replaced the white vinyl flexible duct with aluminum. I like it better the the vinyl. It's more rigid, so I can bend curves and it'll hold it's shape. 

I'm going to wait until after my grow to swap out the scrubber duct


I extended the exhaust to the floor, where the tent air intakes are.



The twine, which is tied to the fan on the other side of the tent, holds the duct to the side so the it's not in the way of the side window.
 
The duct tucks nicely behind the tent

Duct pulled to the side of the window


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## Budley Doright (Nov 17, 2017)

looks great!


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## Mass Medicinals (Nov 17, 2017)

It looks as though you keep the lower vents open. Is there neutral tent air pressure? It doesn't look as though the tent is sucked in or pushed out.


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## JSB99 (Nov 17, 2017)

Mass Medicinals said:


> It looks as though you keep the lower vents open. Is there neutral tent air pressure? It doesn't look as though the tent is sucked in or pushed out.


Yep, the lower micro-vents are open. The tent actually is sucked in, but may be hard to tell by the pics. If I crank the tent fan up, I have to open a port or two. But, once I get rid of the heat caused by the CFLs, I shouldn't have that issue.


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## JSB99 (Nov 17, 2017)

I'm finding something odd with my pH levels. I cut the nutes in half a few days ago, to start weening them off. But since I did that, I can't get my pH to go down. I've added a pretty good amount of pH Down, but it continued to hover around 6.7. As a final solution, I brought my nutes back up, and the pH just levels off! I remember this happening before, when I did a flush. Don't know why, but I'll have to stay on top of my pH until harvest, even if it means giving them nutes until the end.

Anyone want to chime in here? I'm using GH MaxiBloom.


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## Budley Doright (Nov 17, 2017)

Less nutes=less buffering


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## JSB99 (Nov 17, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Less nutes=less buffering


I see! Thx


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## Budley Doright (Nov 17, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I see! Thx


I'm kind of guessing.


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## JSB99 (Nov 21, 2017)

Taking forever to ripen! Leaves are changing with the colors of Fall


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## JSB99 (Nov 21, 2017)

Below the net, the nugs are growing nice and plump!


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## Budley Doright (Nov 21, 2017)

How are the roots?


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## JSB99 (Nov 21, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> How are the roots?


Unfortunately, with the nets, I can't look under the hood. Nothing smells foul or anything. After this grow I'm going to plasti-dip the lids in black, as well as cutting a couple holes (squares) in the lids where I can look inside the totes without having to lift it.

I'm curious too


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## JSB99 (Nov 25, 2017)

I've got well-formed base-buds LOL. I ignored these and let them grow. They're dense and sticky, and are definitely smokeable! 


Thank you, RDWC! You're my hero LOL


----------



## Budley Doright (Nov 25, 2017)

I use the bathroom wall foam tile board 5/8" (I think) for my upper tote lids which insulates and is anti fungal, seems to work well. But yes it's nice to have access to the root section .


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## JSB99 (Nov 29, 2017)

Clean up day. Took me 15 minutes to break everything down and take it out back. Really easy! Instead of 2" unions connecting the large pipes (one passing through the tent), I use rubber couplings. The unions are about $13-$14 each. The couplings were only a few bucks.


----------



## rkymtnman (Nov 29, 2017)

so what did you learn? what is staying the same? what is changing? 

i always have a dr phil moment at the end of each grow.


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## JSB99 (Nov 29, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> so what did you learn? what is staying the same? what is changing?
> 
> i always have a dr phil moment at the end of each grow.


Me too . I've already started planning my adjustments.

List:
I need more light, so I don't have to supplement with CFLs

Need to use slime-away. Roots were pretty slimy

Need to get a 55-gallon HDX tote to use as a reservoir, so I can bubble out chlorine before going into the system. Adding chlorinated water may be killing important microbes.

Considering a chiller. Problem is, I don't have an adjoining room where I can run it. I'm trying to think of how I can enclose one outside. That, or maybe keep a large tote of water outside, and use a second pump and S.S. wort coils for a heat exchanger. That would be a lot cheaper if it works. I'm only growing in the cooler months where it's usually in the 40s and 50s. Probably have issues with outside temps fluctuating.

I think that's all I have for now


----------



## Budley Doright (Nov 29, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Me too . I've already started planning my adjustments.
> 
> List:
> I need more light, so I don't have to supplement with CFLs
> ...


You could use a fan coil outdoors to cool the water if growing in those temps and circulate water through it. I have not had an issue using copper coils that just have res water pumped through them and circulated into res. I should actually test the water before and after a couple of weeks of running for copper level comparison. My underground copper lines use glycol with copper heat exchangers, res water is cycled through them. Using temp controlled pumps.


----------



## JSB99 (Nov 29, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> You could use a fan coil outdoors to cool the water if growing in those temps and circulate water through it. I have not had an issue using copper coils that just have res water pumped through them and circulated into res. I should actually test the water before and after a couple of weeks of running for copper level comparison. My underground copper lines use glycol with copper heat exchangers, res water is cycled through them. Using temp controlled pumps.


Great idea! I was wondering if something like that would work. I can just get a small radiator and fan, mount it right outside the wall, and enclose it enough to protect it from the elements. 

I've always read not to use copper. Something about the water leeching ions, or something.


----------



## Budley Doright (Nov 29, 2017)

Well the PH being low will breakdown copper supposedly and I really need to test it but it has not affected my grow that I'm aware of . I wouldn't stick a coil in my res but I know it's been done with no ill effect to plant development. My chiller and one heatexchanger does have coopurnickle coils which doesn't break down.


----------



## JSB99 (Nov 29, 2017)

I was just testing the water pressure with, and without, the inline filter. I knew there'd be a difference, but it's much more than I thought. I noticed a flow restrictor in the filter, and I'm wondering if that'd help. It looks like there's a little clip, so hopefully that's all. The white buttons on the side don't do anything, as far as I can tell. I've drilled these out before, but it's messy.

If the filter keeps being a bottleneck, I'll just remove it. It's really easy to take my pump out and clean the impeller. I do this every few weeks anyways.


----------



## JSB99 (Nov 29, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Well the PH being low will breakdown copper supposedly and I really need to test it but it has not affected my grow that I'm aware of . I wouldn't stick a coil in my res but I know it's been done with no ill effect to plant development. My chiller and one heatexchanger does have coopurnickle coils which doesn't break down.


What I'm thinking is a closed-loop cooler. I'll use a stainless wort coil in the res, and a second pump would cycle it through the radiator outside. Would that be adequate, or should I just cycle the res water through the radiator? If it's better to cycle the soup, would a second smaller pump, to cycle the soup, work better than having a single pump?


----------



## JSB99 (Dec 2, 2017)

I managed 13.6oz/385.5g, which comes out to about .64g/watt. I knew my yield was going to be low because of the strain I was growing. It's a low yielder, and the buds are small. They are tight and sticky as fk, and I have no doubt it's going to be strong, but I'll never grow this strain again. That's one more thing I've taken away from this grow. The SSH grow (cola pics below) yielded 24oz. That was 2 x SSH, which yielded 8oz each, and 2x Trainwreck (I think), which yielded 4oz each. That equates to 1.13g/watt. That was my biggest yield. I know someone asked earlier, but I couldn't recall my numbers at the time.

I've got Gorilla Cookie beans for my next grow. Got them from a new seed bank in Canada. The user is on RIU, and delivered my order quickly! He's got a good selection and great prices! He's in the process of posting his site, but I'll give him props here. @legalcanada Check him out! Message him about products and prices.


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## JSB99 (Dec 16, 2017)

After I finished cleaning and sterilizing, I began working on tuning and upgrades. I'm calling this "Phase-2"  I've got at least another month before I'll have anything to put into the tent. Right how, I'm working on my baby mommas. That is, baby Bonsai Mums. I've got four growing from seed (Girl Scout Crack (Seedsman), Gorilla Cookies (Expert Seeds), White Widow, and some kind of Kush called "Special Kush #1", though there's no history of it on Leafly). Two have sprouted, and the other two are being slow. After I've grown them big enough to be topped, I'll take some cuttings from one of them, and grow them out. But, I've got more than enough to last me, so I'm not in a big rush.

Here are some of the things I've done (in no particular order):

Painted tote lids black and made modifications
Removed the 90 degree elbow, on the 3/4" return hose
Built a frame, from PVC pipe, to keep the tent's roof poles from sliding around

Relocated the carbon scrubber

Painted four, 2-gallon buckets and lids, that I'm going to use for early-veg

Added 55-gallon reservoir
*Babies*



*Painted tote lids black and made modifications*

Enlarged the netpot holes on the tote lid and got heavy duty netpots
Cut access squares in the tote lids, to be able to peek into the totes without having to lift the lids. Also created lids.
Painted lids black using Plasti-Dip spray paint. Sprayed four or five coats on the mini buckets and the tote lids. Letting everything cure for a couple weeks before I start handling them. Lids are totally blacked-out now.
 

*
Removed the 90 degree elbow, on the 3/4" return hose.*

I saw this as a potential bottleneck, so I shortened the tube, cut another hole in the tent which would allow the tube to gently curve to where in connects to the pump's intake manifold.
  

*
Built a frame, from PVC pipe, to keep the tent's roof poles from sliding around and relocated the carbon scrubber, since the new poles allowed for more places to hang it from. It's just in the center now.
 *


*Painted four, 2-gallon buckets and lids, that I'm going to use for early-veg.*
I'm going to lay a board across the top of the totes, and put the buckets on top. This way, I can get the plants real close to the center. I'll just move them to the totes by their netpots, when they're big enough. The buckets will each have an air stone, but the buckets are independent from each other.


----------



## JSB99 (Dec 16, 2017)

*55-Gallon Reservoir
 
Fits perfectly beneath the 6ft table. Not sure if I'm going to leave the lid on, as I'm going to be bubbling out chlorine.
 
The valve is kind of tucked away back there, but I won't need to get to it much*.
* *

Added water line feed and float valve to reservoir
Added an overflow pipe to the reservoir
Added a bulkhead and tube to the reservoir. A 1/2" tube goes to the new valve on the pump's intake manifold.
*The overflow has a mini PVC p-trap*

*
Float valve on the right, and overflow on the left. Overflow drains outside.*


Removed the inline filter. This was really reducing the flow. I blame that more on having an undersized pump, and I left the manifold in a way that allows me to put it back in place once I get a more powerful pump.Added a 55-gallon reservoir. I went with an HDX 55-gallon tote, and not a barrel. The tote fits perfectly under the table, and it was way less expensive. The barrel is better suited for holding that much water, because of it's round shape, and the tote is flexing as it gets filled up. But I'm not giving up on it. I've got some metal pipes that I'm going to use as a frame, around the mid-section of the tote, to prevent the sides from bowing out.
Added a side-chain and valve to the pump's intake manifold. Yep, added another valve. Didn't think I had enough yet LOL! What this valve allows me to do is use the pump to draw the water from the res, by closing the very first valve that has the 3/4" tube connected to it. I can also drain the reservoir by closing the valve to the waterfall, and opening the drain valve. My goal was to use a single pump for everything.


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## Budley Doright (Dec 17, 2017)

U could use a ratchet strap around the tote to stop flexing I would think if it's that bad, never had that issue. Also I painted my totes black as well but found the things added a lot of heat being black so changed to high density foam wall board used in bathroom walls and before that covered them with reflective bubble wrap. With the chiller or loop running I haven't worried about res temps. Looks amazing though .


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## zypheruk (Dec 17, 2017)

Paint totes etc white so as to reflect light and heat. Or as Budley Doright has suggested.


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## JSB99 (Dec 17, 2017)

zypheruk said:


> Paint totes etc white so as to reflect light and heat. Or as Budley Doright has suggested.


How much heat does that actually add though? Once the plants get big enough, the lids end up in the shade anyways. I can always just add a layer of white if needed.


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## JSB99 (Dec 17, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> U could use a ratchet strap around the tote to stop flexing I would think if it's that bad, never had that issue. Also I painted my totes black as well but found the things added a lot of heat being black so changed to high density foam wall board used in bathroom walls and before that covered them with reflective bubble wrap. With the chiller or loop running I haven't worried about res temps. Looks amazing though .


I tried wrapping a previous tote with duct tape, but it still flexed. I was thinking that a strap would do the same. Square containers try and even out liquid pressure by trying to take a round shape. I was having the same issue with my little Cloner. I added a couple rigid wood hanger rods, and it worked great! I thought, being a stronger tote, that it would hold it's shape a little better. Have you filled one to the top with water? I only got about half way before I decided that it needed to be reinforced. I have some ratchet straps I can try, if that works.


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## JSB99 (Dec 17, 2017)

I've decided to paint the lids a light color anyways.


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## XipXipXoom (Dec 17, 2017)

Chlorine is actually an essential micronutrient and one of the best things for keeping the slime/pythium at bay. All you need is 1-2ppm. Chlorine toxicity is an issue but you would need to use swimming pool water to get there. No municipal water supply is going to have levels that high and they use chloramine specifically because it doesn't evaporate very easily, so bubbling your water to remove it won't be very effective.


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## zypheruk (Dec 17, 2017)

I found wrapping insulator material around the totes can drop about 4c of the uninsulated totes temp. Helps reduce the amount of time the chiller needs to be working. But as you say once the canopy covers the totes temps in them will drop.


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## XipXipXoom (Dec 17, 2017)

I think ur on the right track with the ss wort chiller. It wont conduct heat as well as copper, but like you said, it wont leach copper ions. How long it would take for enough copper to build up to start locking out other elements, I have no idea, but it would probably only be an issue if you only top off and never change ur rez water.


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## JSB99 (Dec 17, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> Chlorine is actually an essential micronutrient and one of the best things for keeping the slime/pythium at bay. All you need is 1-2ppm. Chlorine toxicity is an issue but you would need to use swimming pool water to get there. No municipal water supply is going to have levels that high and they use chloramine specifically because it doesn't evaporate very easily, so bubbling your water to remove it won't be very effective.


My water doesn't have chloramine, at least not yet. My tds out of the tap is 110. After a day of sitting, and the chlorine has dissipated, I'm at 70ppm. I researched my water company to determine if I was going to put an RO filter in place, which I don't need quite yet. I'm sure there's still chlorine left after sitting though.

As far as chlorine being beneficial, I've heard stories from both sides. One side says chlorine kills beneficial microbes, while the other side says it helps. I tend to agree with the notion that it's harmful to microbes.


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## JSB99 (Dec 17, 2017)

XipXipXoom said:


> I think ur on the right track with the ss wort chiller. It wont conduct heat as well as copper, but like you said, it wont leach copper ions. How long it would take for enough copper to build up to start locking out other elements, I have no idea, but it would probably only be an issue if you only top off and never change ur rez water.


I've been running ideas around in my head, trying to think up a good way to use a wort coil. 

I was thinking that I could have the coil on the outside of the wall, and let the cold outside air cool the coil, but with temps changing all the time, I think it would be tough regulating water temps. 

I could have the coil in a second res/cooler filled with ice water, in the room, but it might be a little bit of a hassle dumping ice, or freezer packs, into the cooler each day. However, seeing as how this would only take a minute or so each day, it might be the best option until I figure out how to incorporate a chiller into the room.

The problem with getting a chiller, besides money, is the placement. The only adjoining rooms available are the kitchen and a bathroom, so I don't have a remote location to keep it. I don't want to keep it in the room because of all the additional heat I'd be adding right back into the room.

The other option, being more extreme and costly, is to use a semi-powerful pump to run water to the room on the other side of the bathroom, where the chiller would be. The bathroom's only about 5' wide, but the DWC controller res is on the far wall, so that's another 10'. That's 30 total feet, not counting the chiller. I would also have to figure out how to run tubing to the room without disturbing the bathroom. That really only leaves outside. I could insulate the tubing, I guess.

I thought my water was chilly enough. My aquarium thermometer was reading 68, but my digital was showing about 80. I was putting more faith into the thermometer, but I ended up with some slime and slightly brown roots, so temps might have been higher than I thought.


So that's where I'm at.


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## Budley Doright (Dec 17, 2017)

You dont need a super powerful pump if there is no lift, I use a small bilge pump to water my swamp plants and it's on a 75' tube but pretty much level. You can buy a fan coil and small inline pump and place it outside filled with glycol and set the attached wort chiller in your res. control the pump with a digital controller set at 66-67. I do that as well but it's an underground loop and heat exchangers. Honestly I found the ice thing a real pain in the ass, but I'm not in the grow every day either . I just winterized my chiller as I only use it above 60 outdoors, it's now minus 24c today lol. I really need to pull my boat lol, I was hunting today in it .


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## JSB99 (Dec 17, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> You dont need a super powerful pump if there is no lift, I use a small bilge pump to water my swamp plants and it's on a 75' tube but pretty much level. You can buy a fan coil and small inline pump and place it outside filled with glycol and set the attached wort chiller in your res. control the pump with a digital controller set at 66-67. I do that as well but it's an underground loop and heat exchangers. Honestly I found the ice thing a real pain in the ass, but I'm not in the grow every day either . I just winterized my chiller as I only use it above 60 outdoors, it's now minus 24c today lol. I really need to pull my boat lol, I was hunting today in it .


I didn't think about using a thermostat switch with the water. Wasn't even aware they existed. That sounds like it'd work really well! Ill probably go that route when I get a little money!


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## Budley Doright (Dec 17, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I didn't think about using a thermostat switch with the water. Wasn't even aware they existed. That sounds like it'd work really well! Ill probably go that route when I get a little money!


 For $60 this is what I use to control all my stuff


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## JSB99 (Dec 17, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> View attachment 4059511 For $60 this is what I use to control all my stuff


Right on!

Hopefully I'll be putting this stuff together on the next couple months. Do you have a link to your wort cooler setup?


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## dstroy (Dec 17, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I've been running ideas around in my head, trying to think up a good way to use a wort coil.
> 
> I was thinking that I could have the coil on the outside of the wall, and let the cold outside air cool the coil, but with temps changing all the time, I think it would be tough regulating water temps.
> 
> ...


Do you have to pay for water? If you don’t you can run that through the coil. And it will chill your res, still need the thermostat hooked up to a valve so it doesn’t make the res too cold.

Pumping nutrient solution through the coil, with the coil in the air is extremely inefficient and likely will not cool the res down at all, this would also require a thermostat and valve or power to the pump to regulate flow.

Having a chiller in the room, that is air conditioned already is not too much of a challenge. A 1/10hp chiller is around 300watts at the outlet while it is running. Less heat than you think, and easy to figure out if you have the cooling capacity for it.


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## JSB99 (Dec 17, 2017)

dstroy said:


> Do you have to pay for water? If you don’t you can run that through the coil. And it will chill your res, still need the thermostat hooked up to a valve so it doesn’t make the res too cold.
> 
> Pumping nutrient solution through the coil, with the coil in the air is extremely inefficient and likely will not cool the res down at all, this would also require a thermostat and valve or power to the pump to regulate flow.
> 
> Having a chiller in the room, that is air conditioned already is not too much of a challenge. A 1/10hp chiller is around 300watts at the outlet while it is running. Less heat than you think, and easy to figure out if you have the cooling capacity for it.


Yes, I pay for water. That'd be cool if I could use well water for a drain to waste chiller!

And I agree about not pumping soup through the coil. I'd do what you did and have a closed-loop filled with glycol. And it would have a dedicated pump, of course. I could just imagine how quickly those coils would sludge up and clog, running nutes through it.


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## Budley Doright (Dec 17, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Right on!
> 
> Hopefully I'll be putting this stuff together on the next couple months. Do you have a link to your wort cooler setup?


I don't use a wort, I pump water through heat exchanger that run glycol, I have a few pics here someplace lol. Once it warms up a bit I'll go take some pics. I get my heatexchangers from decommissioned geothermal units . And in warm months I pump res water directly through chiller .


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## Budley Doright (Dec 17, 2017)

dstroy said:


> Do you have to pay for water? If you don’t you can run that through the coil. And it will chill your res, still need the thermostat hooked up to a valve so it doesn’t make the res too cold.
> 
> Pumping nutrient solution through the coil, with the coil in the air is extremely inefficient and likely will not cool the res down at all, this would also require a thermostat and valve or power to the pump to regulate flow.
> 
> Having a chiller in the room, that is air conditioned already is not too much of a challenge. A 1/10hp chiller is around 300watts at the outlet while it is running. Less heat than you think, and easy to figure out if you have the cooling capacity for it.


Actually a fan coil is very effective outdoors if temps are cold enough and I'm probably going to switch to one as soon as copper goes up in price to sell the 200-300 feet I buried lol. They are used all the time to run hot and chilled water through. The only requirement to move the glycol mix is a small circ pump and the controller shown. Yes chillers are better in some situations but the passive fan coil is cheap as chips to run, I'm waiting for a decommissioned AC condensing unit in spring to use for glycol. Mind you they won't work much when over 60 outdoors. The op seems to like valves and stuff . so flow valves (ball) should be a walk lol. I use both chiller and passive and they both have advantages .


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## dstroy (Dec 17, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Yes, I pay for water. That'd be cool if I could use well water for a drain to waste chiller!
> 
> And I agree about not pumping soup through the coil. I'd do what you did and have a closed-loop filled with glycol. And it would have a dedicated pump, of course. I could just imagine how quickly those coils would sludge up and clog, running nutes through it.


It would be sweeeeet

No need for glycol unless you expect your coolant to freeze. Just water and a drop of soap as a surfactant.


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## dstroy (Dec 17, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Actually a fan coil is very effective outdoors if temps are cold enough and I'm probably going to switch to one as soon as copper goes up in price to sell the 200-300 feet I buried lol. They are used all the time to run hot and chilled water through. The only requirement to move the glycol mix is a small circ pump and the controller shown. Yes chillers are better in some situations but the passive fan coil is cheap as chips to run, I'm waiting for a decommissioned AC condensing unit in spring to use for glycol. Mind you they won't work much when over 60 outdoors. The op seems to like valves and stuff . so flow valves (ball) should be a walk lol. I use both chiller and passive and they both have advantages .


A fan coil unit isn’t the same as a wort chiller though. Fan coil units are really good heat exchangers.

I wish it was cool enough here in the summer for me to use one.


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## Budley Doright (Dec 17, 2017)

dstroy said:


> A fan coil unit isn’t the same as a wort chiller though. Fan coil units are really good heat exchangers.
> 
> I wish it was cool enough here in the summer for me to use one.


Well the glycol (yes below freezing lol) is circulated through the fan coil to remove the heat picked by the wort chiller, you need both to make it work. And yup not very good in the summer. I head outside then lol.


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## Budley Doright (Dec 17, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Yes, I pay for water. That'd be cool if I could use well water for a drain to waste chiller!
> 
> And I agree about not pumping soup through the coil. I'd do what you did and have a closed-loop filled with glycol. And it would have a dedicated pump, of course. I could just imagine how quickly those coils would sludge up and clog, running nutes through it.


They actually don't sludge up through my heat exchangers which is nutrients, I cover all tubing and water is kept cool so no slime or algae. I did worry about copper leaching but never had issues, easy test and I should do it.


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## JSB99 (Dec 17, 2017)

Painted the lids primer grey. Didn't want to go all white. I think that would have bugged me LOL!

Also pics of the poles and rebar I'll be using to support the mid-section.


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## JSB99 (Dec 17, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Actually a fan coil is very effective outdoors if temps are cold enough and I'm probably going to switch to one as soon as copper goes up in price to sell the 200-300 feet I buried lol. They are used all the time to run hot and chilled water through. The only requirement to move the glycol mix is a small circ pump and the controller shown. Yes chillers are better in some situations but the passive fan coil is cheap as chips to run, I'm waiting for a decommissioned AC condensing unit in spring to use for glycol. Mind you they won't work much when over 60 outdoors. The op seems to like valves and stuff . so flow valves (ball) should be a walk lol. I use both chiller and passive and they both have advantages .


It stays cool in Oregon, and I'm not going to grow inside during the summer months. I like the fan coil idea. I was searching around for them, but wasn't first ding what I thought would work. If you come across any, post some links for me, if you could. Thx!


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## Budley Doright (Dec 17, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> It stays cool in Oregon, and I'm not going to grow inside during the summer months. I like the fan coil idea. I was searching around for them, but wasn't first ding what I thought would work. If you come across any, post some links for me, if you could. Thx!


Well I'm kind of cheap lol. I would look at the auto wreckers first and use a car rad if running glycol. Just use a step down transformer to power it and put controller in series. I also found that if I stopped the water flow and not the glycol it froze the water in the heat exchanger lol. I get lots of stuff where I work (HVAC) as a refrigeration mechanic so that was the condenser ideal (free) but if I didn't have that option I like said would start at wreckers then we have Princess Auto that sells surplus fan coil units for cheap that I'm going to run chilled water through for cooling the grow. They just made it legal here to grow 4 indoor plants so I don't have to be quite as stealthy but will never be at 4 so still somewhat careful lol. My chiller should be able to handle a bit of a load as it's quite big (8000 btu's) and I tweaked it for more efficient operation by adding an accumulator and tx valve. Wow ok they've gone up .


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## Budley Doright (Dec 17, 2017)

And your right about keeping the chiller in the same space if you need to cool the heat remove from the res . I need all the heat I can get and try to maintain a 75 canopy and 66 res, I still keep my chiller outside though and just turn it on around May 1st and off in October weather dependant


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## kingtitan (Dec 18, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I've got an Active Aqua 60W, 70 L/min pump coming for my 4x5 gallon bucket UnderCurrent build. An 8 output manifold comes with it.
> 
> What I'm wondering is, would 2 air stones per bucket produce more dissolved oxygen than 1 air stone per bucket at twice the pressure (because 4 of the outputs would be shut off)?


How is this air pump? the 70L and 100L both say its 60 decibel, is it loud? I am looking at RDWC 6-9 site with 5 gal buckets but I I am trying to size the pumps. Thinking about ditching my current Promix soilless.


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## Budley Doright (Dec 18, 2017)

kingtitan said:


> How is this air pump? the 70L and 100L both say its 60 decibel, is it loud? I am looking at RDWC 6-9 site with 5 gal buckets but I I am trying to size the pumps. Thinking about ditching my current Promix soilless.


Not sure about the reliability but for comparison a typical ac condenser is advertised 70 at 5'


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## JSB99 (Dec 18, 2017)

kingtitan said:


> How is this air pump? the 70L and 100L both say its 60 decibel, is it loud? I am looking at RDWC 6-9 site with 5 gal buckets but I I am trying to size the pumps. Thinking about ditching my current Promix soilless.


The pump by itself may seem a little loud. But, when it's running with the other equipment, it pretty much blends in. The pump rocks! Super powerful. I'm only using four stones with it. I think if I were to run as many sites as you're planning, I would go up to the 110lpm pump. 

There are ways to reduce the pump noise. Having it suspended in air keeps a lot of vibration noise down. Also, keep the main hose off the wall. The vibrations can translate from the pump to the wall, and create noise. You can also build a soundproof box for the pump. If it came to noise vs output, I'd put up with the noise for the additional power. You can get pretty creative in reducing the noise.

These pumps run hot though, so expect some heat added to the room, unless you run the pump remotely. I have my tent exhaust fan blowing on my pump, and it stays cool to the touch. I keep mine mounted high to keep the room's cool air at the floor and warm air towards the ceiling.


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## rkymtnman (Dec 18, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I tend to agree with the notion that it's harmful to microbes.


definitely. bacteria don't like chlorine. 
if your tap already has it in there, run a sterile res and then it becomes a non issue.


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## JSB99 (Dec 18, 2017)

kingtitan said:


> How is this air pump? the 70L and 100L both say its 60 decibel, is it loud? I am looking at RDWC 6-9 site with 5 gal buckets but I I am trying to size the pumps. Thinking about ditching my current Promix soilless.


Also, consider using HDX totes (27-gallon) to replace every two buckets. The totes allow you to hold so much more water. And, the flat edges are way easier to seal bulkheads than the rounded edges. I was going to use buckets as well, but went with the totes after enough people told me that was a much better way.


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## JSB99 (Dec 18, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> definitely. bacteria don't like chlorine.
> if your tap already has it in there, run a sterile res and then it becomes a non issue.


I'm big on sterilizing and cleaning, and I think I put more effort into it after this latest harvest, than when I had started it.


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## rkymtnman (Dec 18, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I'm big on sterilizing and cleaning, and I think I put more effort into it after this latest harvest, than when I had started it.


have you gotten a water analysis from your muni water source? they have to provide one for free. 

if the chlorine is already 1 to 2ppm, you can go up to 5ppm and still be safe for humans and plants. and then save your money on buying bennies.


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## JSB99 (Dec 18, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> have you gotten a water analysis from your muni water source? they have to provide one for free.
> 
> if the chlorine is already 1 to 2ppm, you can go up to 5ppm and still be safe for humans and plants. and then save your money on buying bennies.


Yes I've seen the water analysis report, and made sure I wasn't mistaken about the chloramine, as using chloramine has pretty much become the standard with city water. That's not to say they won't add chloramine at any time, but for now, they only use chlorine. The water in OR is really good so I can't imagine it takes much treatment.


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## JSB99 (Dec 18, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> have you gotten a water analysis from your muni water source? they have to provide one for free.
> 
> if the chlorine is already 1 to 2ppm, you can go up to 5ppm and still be safe for humans and plants. and then save your money on buying bennies.


I figure at some point I'll get an RO filter and use the reservoir for the treated water.


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## rkymtnman (Dec 18, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I figure at some point I'll get an RO filter and use the reservoir for the treated water.


i was saying if your water is fine and you are just worried about the chlorine via the RO system, don't fight it. either use HTH pool shock or Dutchmaster Zone (chlorine), UC roots, etc and just run a sterile system.


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## kingtitan (Dec 18, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> The pump by itself may seem a little loud. But, when it's running with the other equipment, it pretty much blends in. The pump rocks! Super powerful. I'm only using four stones with it. I think if I were to run as many sites as you're planning, I would go up to the 110lpm pump.
> 
> There are ways to reduce the pump noise. Having it suspended in air keeps a lot of vibration noise down. Also, keep the main hose off the wall. The vibrations can translate from the pump to the wall, and create noise. You can also build a soundproof box for the pump. If it came to noise vs output, I'd put up with the noise for the additional power. You can get pretty creative in reducing the noise.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I will look at using totes, I am still figuring out all the RDWC stuff. I have a 5x9x6.5 tent with a 1000w. I am only using 5x5 area and the rest is for equipment and room for me to work around and for my hot peppers/veggies under some house LEDs. I currently have 10 plants in 4gal containers and its a bit too much, 9 would have worked better for spacing but I am thinking maybe 6 maybe a good number?

Ill probably just run the pump remotely in the next room (furnace room bare concrete) where I have all my power outlets/timers/variac and my RO unit. I may even want to put the reservoir in here on the concrete for cooling which would be about a 10 foot hose run but the reservoir would be a foot away from the floor drain. Been having a mild winter here so temps haven't dropped to the usual -20 or below like usual so I don't know if it may make the reservoir too cold. Right now my RO garbage pail is at 17c on a piece of high density insulation foam, bare concrete it can get colder which wuld work lights on but not sure about off.


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## dstroy (Dec 18, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I figure at some point I'll get an RO filter and use the reservoir for the treated water.


I've got two, one downstairs for drinking water, and one upstairs for drinking water and I fill a holding tank with it as well.

this one is upstairs, I got the one with the case but it sits under the sink so I never see it anyway

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IB14XDU/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1

and then I just got one of the clamp on drains, and one of these

https://www.amazon.com/Angle-Adapter-Valve-Connect-Fitting/dp/B00CF452QG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1513625141&sr=8-1&keywords=sink+adapter+ro+1/4

but I bought the clamp on drain and that adapter at home depot so they're john guest and cost an arm and a leg

It only takes around 12 hours to fill up my 44 gallon holding tank.

If your city ever adds chloramines to your water then it's simple to add a DI cartridge to it. Just need a filter housing, refillable media cartridge and some DI resin, and a couple fittings.


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## JSB99 (Dec 18, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> i was saying if your water is fine and you are just worried about the chlorine via the RO system, don't fight it. either use HTH pool shock or Dutchmaster Zone (chlorine), UC roots, etc and just run a sterile system.


I was just talking about getting one if they start putting chloramine in the water. Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with it.


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## rkymtnman (Dec 18, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I was just talking about getting one if they start putting chloramine in the water. Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with it.


10-4 good buddy! gotcha.


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## JSB99 (Dec 18, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> 10-4 good buddy! gotcha.


 "10-4"
70's CB radios and big rigs immediately come to mind when I hear any kind of "CB talk"! 

And then this song gets stuck in my head all day!

_"East bound and down, loaded up and truckin', 
We're gonna do what they say can't be done. 
We've got a long way to go and a short time to get there. 
I'm east bound, just watch ol' "Bandit" run.…"_

YEEHAW!!! LOL!


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## rkymtnman (Dec 18, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> "10-4"
> 70's CB radios and big rigs immediately come to mind when I hear any kind of "CB talk"!
> 
> And then this song gets stuck in my head all day!
> ...



too funny dude! me and the wifey just watched it last week. i forgot how fucking brilliant sheriff buford t justice was in that. he never once read from the script the whole shoot. and how he'd ask his assistant for a burger which was code for a full glass of bourbon.


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## JSB99 (Dec 18, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> too funny dude! me and the wifey just watched it last week. i forgot how fucking brilliant sheriff buford t justice was in that. he never once read from the script the whole shoot. and how he'd ask his assistant for a burger which was code for a full glass of bourbon.


LOL! Such a classic!

Watch, some day some studio will want to make some money from a remake of it, and they'll hire Christopher Nolan or JJ Abrahams to direct a dark and serious version of Smokey and the Bandit LOL!


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## Budley Doright (Dec 18, 2017)

dstroy said:


> Do you have to pay for water? If you don’t you can run that through the coil. And it will chill your res, still need the thermostat hooked up to a valve so it doesn’t make the res too cold.
> 
> Pumping nutrient solution through the coil, with the coil in the air is extremely inefficient and likely will not cool the res down at all, this would also require a thermostat and valve or power to the pump to regulate flow.
> 
> Having a chiller in the room, that is air conditioned already is not too much of a challenge. A 1/10hp chiller is around 300watts at the outlet while it is running. Less heat than you think, and easy to figure out if you have the cooling capacity for it.


It draws 300 watts plus the heat removed, plus the heat of compression so it also adds up. So yes getting it out of the room is a good thing.


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## dstroy (Dec 18, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> It draws 300 watts plus the heat removed, plus the heat of compression so it also adds up. So yes getting it out of the room is a good thing.


Well no, that's not quite how it works but you are right about adding everything up. You can't get more energy from a system than what you put into it. This is the first law of thermodynamics.

Mine is in my room, and it's not that bad. 

It's just 300w, the heat that is generated is the efficiency.

The compressor is going to turn almost all of the amperage that it draws (which isn't more than watts at the wall but makes up the majority of the power because the fan is less than 100w) into heat because of the nature of phase change.

The fan is going to make some heat.

And the process is going to generate some heat. 

But it won't be more than the running wattage (300w) of heat. To be safe you can just multiply the running wattage (in my case 300w) by the BTU conversion which is 3.41.

300 x 3.41 = 1023 Btu/hr

So it adds 1k btu that needs to be cooled, negligible if you have the cooling capacity.


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 18, 2017)

dstroy said:


> Well no, that's not quite how it works but you are right about adding everything up. You can't get more energy from a system than what you put into it. This is the first law of thermodynamics.
> 
> Mine is in my room, and it's not that bad.
> 
> ...


Ummm you may want to check out a heat pump and the amount of heat produced versus power used. Check out the performance on a 24,000 btu one for instance and get back to me. Have a look at the COP's. Not wanting to argue but we're talking refrigeration effect, moving heat as well as the mechanical process to move it which is where the wattage comes in. Anyways check out the heat pump and get back to me, pm me as to not corrupt this thread please.


----------



## dstroy (Dec 18, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Ummm you may want to check out a heat pump and the amount of heat produced versus power used. Check out the performance on a 24,000 btu one for instance and get back to me. Have a look at the COP's. Not wanting to argue but we're talking refrigeration effect, moving heat as well as the mechanical process to move it which is where the wattage comes in. Anyways check out the heat pump and get back to me, pm me as to not corrupt this thread please.


This isn’t a heat pump, which are vastly more efficient than a l2a chiller, it's a l2a chiller. Heat pumps are so much more efficient because they do not work the same way as a water chiller, they have a four way reversing valve which allows them to turn the evaporator into a condenser and vice versa, they move heat but work on the same principle. So I just got back to you.

I literally described the entire process to figure out the how much heat, even with an added cushion. 

You do not understand that it cannot make more than 300w of heat, which is the amount of energy you put into it.

That would mean that it would be more than 100% efficient, which would mean that it generates more energy than is put into it. Which is simply impossible.

I have a very good grasp of the engineering principles behind heating and cooling.


----------



## kingtitan (Dec 19, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Also, consider using HDX totes (27-gallon) to replace every two buckets. The totes allow you to hold so much more water. And, the flat edges are way easier to seal bulkheads than the rounded edges. I was going to use buckets as well, but went with the totes after enough people told me that was a much better way.


what about these square light proof ones? they are 4 gal but I could use a 15gal tote as the reservoir to make up some water volume.


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 19, 2017)

dstroy said:


> This isn’t a heat pump, which are vastly more efficient than a l2a chiller, it's a l2a chiller. Heat pumps are so much more efficient because they do not work the same way as a water chiller, they have a four way reversing valve which allows them to turn the evaporator into a condenser and vice versa, they move heat but work on the same principle. So I just got back to you.
> 
> I literally described the entire process to figure out the how much heat, even with an added cushion.
> 
> ...


For fucks sake, I said PM me or better yet start a thread and I'll explain how "vastly" wrong you are, I may teach you some things, that's what I do FYI lol.key words "moving heat".


----------



## dstroy (Dec 19, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> For fucks sake, I said PM me or better yet start a thread and I'll explain how "vastly" wrong you are, I may teach you some things, that's what I do FYI lol.key words "moving heat".


You sure did just prove me wrong there 

telling me to look at COP graph for a heat pump. Being condescending over the internet will win you friends real quick.

Technically, this IS a heat pump, but not the same kind you were referring to so yeah. For fucks sake. 

Moving heat. Unless you were referring to the fact that they do move more heat the larger the temperature differential is. That is, until you reach the motherfucking setpoint when the load is low.

Then I bet you'll tell me that I can't directly convert watts to BTU, because it's an A/C unit. I fuckin know that too.

All I was trying to do was give a general idea of how much average heat that it would produce, which OBVIOUSLY will increase with the more heat that needs to be moved.

I'm glad that "you do this", so you're an HVAC technician? Good for you, nothing wrong with doing that. 

I'm sure you could teach me something about how to use a manifold, or what fails on what normally since I'm NOT an HVAC technician. I'm not discounting your experience, or your knowledge AT ALL.


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 19, 2017)

dstroy said:


> You sure did just prove me wrong there
> 
> telling me to look at COP graph for a heat pump. Being condescending over the internet will win you friends real quick.
> 
> ...


Ok thanks lol


----------



## JSB99 (Dec 19, 2017)

dstroy said:


> You sure did just prove me wrong there
> 
> telling me to look at COP graph for a heat pump. Being condescending over the internet will win you friends real quick.
> 
> ...


Interesting topic, but maybe this could spin off to it's own thread.

Thanks, Man


----------



## JSB99 (Dec 19, 2017)

kingtitan said:


> what about these square light proof ones? they are 4 gal but I could use a 15gal tote as the reservoir to make up some water volume.


For a smaller setup, this should work great! I was originally going to use 4.1 buckets (.1 being the controller reservoir). My capacity was between 22 and 25 gallons. After switching to three, 27-gallon totes, my capacity jumped to 75 gallons. In reality, I only use around 55 gallons. There are a lot of advantages to using more water, so if you can swing it, try to go as big as you can. If you don't have much floor space, another option is to get/make taller containers, if you have vertical space.


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## JSB99 (Dec 19, 2017)

Got the bars supporting the reservoir now. It's filled to the top, and everything looks good. The tote could've probably held all the liquid without the bars, but it looked like it was going to bow out quite a bit. I feel more comfortable with it reinforced. Makes getting the lid on and off a little easier. The long bars are from a couple rowing oars I don't use anymore. Being oars, the tube are real rigid, so it holds the sides in tight. The cross bars are just rebar.

Over-filled the res to fill the overflow p-trap and check for leaks.
  
Cut the lid because the expelled chlorine needs to escape. I could've just left the lid off, but it helps support the reservoir's shape.
 

I was hoping I could find a use for this pump. This will work perfect!


----------



## JSB99 (Dec 19, 2017)

Question for the DWC growers - where do you put your airstone in comparison to the netpot and roots? I had my stones directly under the netpot and the roots grew sprawled out from the center, instead of growing straight down to the football. There was no doubt that the DO was getting to the center of the roots, but does that have a negative effect on the roots and growth? Would I be better off setting the stones to the sides, or in between, the netpots?


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 19, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Question for the DWC growers - where do you put your airstone in comparison to the netpot and roots? I had my stones directly under the netpot and the roots grew sprawled out from the center, instead of growing straight down to the football. There was no doubt that the DO was getting to the center of the roots, but does that have a negative effect on the roots and growth? Would I be better off setting the stones to the sides, or in between, the netpots?


I sucked at DWC lol but I would think having the ball spread out would allow the inner roots to get fresh water and DO. It'll be interesting to hear comments, my flood and drain fill nozzle is pretty violent lol. I don't think it effects growth as I end up with a 4" matt of roots by the end of the grow.


----------



## JSB99 (Dec 19, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I sucked at DWC lol but I would think having the ball spread out would allow the inner roots to get fresh water and DO. It'll be interesting to hear comments, my flood and drain fill nozzle is pretty violent lol. I don't think it effects growth as I end up with a 4" matt of roots by the end of the grow.


Mine didn't seem to suffer either, but I really don't have anything to compare it to. Maybe I'll do a grow where one tub has the stones tight under the nets, and the other where the stones are in the middle, between the two netpots, and see if there's any difference.


----------



## JSB99 (Dec 19, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I sucked at DWC


That's kind of odd to hear, at least to me it is. DWC is pretty easy. However, comparing a bubbling bucket to a UC is like comparing walking to driving. So I can see where it can become difficult. The same can be said about growing weed. Everywhere you look you see "growing weed is easy", but this is so misguiding, because growing weed is fairly difficult, and requires a lot of work. "Growing weed is easy" is the same as saying, "If you put a cannabis seed in soil, outside, and water it like any other plant, you can grow a marijuana plant.". But the second you throw anything else into the mix, like harvesting, you have added multitudes of difficulty with many points of failure along the way. Or, growing inside. That takes a lot of learning, research, practice, and failure, just to get okay at it. After that, it takes years to become good, or great at it. Most here at RIU have visited the GrowWeedEasy site. Has anyone noticed how many pages there are! Holy shit, it's a friggin book! How is that "easy" LOL!


----------



## kingtitan (Dec 19, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Got the bars supporting the reservoir now. It's filled to the top, and everything looks good. The tote could've probably held all the liquid without the bars, but it looked like it was going to bow out quite a bit. I feel more comfortable with it reinforced. Makes getting the lid on and off a little easier. The long bars are from a couple rowing oars I don't use anymore. Being oars, the tube are real rigid, so it holds the sides in tight. The cross bars are just rebar.
> 
> Over-filled the res to fill the overflow p-trap and check for leaks.
> View attachment 4060482 View attachment 4060483
> ...


Good call on the bar, I have used zip ties on smaller tubs and ratchet straps on bigger ones before I started using strictly Rubbermaid or Rubbermaid "indestructible" rough neck or tough neck whatever they are called. 

I am a Reef Aquarium hobbyist and run sumps for my tanks and 10+ years ago I got a Walmart brand tub @ 220L and it ended up bowing too much and cracking and spilling all that salt water. The rubber maids bow but never break!


----------



## JSB99 (Dec 19, 2017)

We're getting a lot of rain today, and I've been collecting it to feed my starts. I've been wanting to get a rain barrel, but it's not in my budget yet. However, I bet I can put together a catch bin and pipe it into my new res. The catch bin would just have to have a large surface area to catch a lot of rain. I know some people collect from their gutters, but is that water tainted at all by the shingles it passes over along the way? Anyone else using rain water?

If I do this, I'll post pics. All advice is welcome, especially if it's about saving money!


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 20, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> That's kind of odd to hear, at least to me it is. DWC is pretty easy. However, comparing a bubbling bucket to a UC is like comparing walking to driving. So I can see where it can become difficult. The same can be said about growing weed. Everywhere you look you see "growing weed is easy", but this is so misguiding, because growing weed is fairly difficult, and requires a lot of work. "Growing weed is easy" is the same as saying, "If you put a cannabis seed in soil, outside, and water it like any other plant, you can grow a marijuana plant.". But the second you throw anything else into the mix, like harvesting, you have added multitudes of difficulty with many points of failure along the way. Or, growing inside. That takes a lot of learning, research, practice, and failure, just to get okay at it. After that, it takes years to become good, or great at it. Most here at RIU have visited the GrowWeedEasy site. Has anyone noticed how many pages there are! Holy shit, it's a friggin book! How is that "easy" LOL!


When I did the DWC grow I had just started the indoor thing and was trying many different systems that I cobbled together. I had better luck with the modified flood and drain and stuck with it, still running it today . I found outdoor to be easy and started 43 years ago, got really good at it to lol. I much prefer the taste of indoor hydro though, wierd huh lol. It's almost more of a hobby really, I like to build shit lol.


----------



## JSB99 (Dec 20, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> When I did the DWC grow I had just started the indoor thing and was trying many different systems that I cobbled together. I had better luck with the modified flood and drain and stuck with it, still running it today . I found outdoor to be easy and started 43 years ago, got really good at it to lol. I much prefer the taste of indoor hydro though, wierd huh lol. It's almost more of a hobby really, I like to build shit lol.


I hear ya! I love building and tinkering! I also love watching my Mean Green Grow Machine chugging along rather than staring at a plant in soil LOL! It's a lot easier than soil for me, even though it's much more touchy. I've built different hydro/aero gardens years ago, because I was so interested in the different techniques. I settled with DWC, but could have just as easily ended up with building an F&D. I just always felt more comfortable with DWC.


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 21, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I hear ya! I love building and tinkering! I also love watching my Mean Green Grow Machine chugging along rather than staring at a plant in soil LOL! It's a lot easier than soil for me, even though it's much more touchy. I've built different hydro/aero gardens years ago, because I was so interested in the different techniques. I settled with DWC, but could have just as easily ended up with building an F&D. I just always felt more comfortable with DWC.


I used air stones in my systems when I first started out and the reason I found I had issues with PH stability, not sure if the air stone was a contributing factor but I decided to stop using them, FD let me use flooming as a means to get DO in the water. I'm now thinking DTW for my next setup, never tried that one lol. And yes hydroponics is way easier for me as well, Aero (LP) posed a few issues that while easy to deal with we're still issues. I leave my system for a week at a time and the less issues the better .


----------



## JSB99 (Dec 21, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Actually a fan coil is very effective outdoors if temps are cold enough and I'm probably going to switch to one as soon as copper goes up in price to sell the 200-300 feet I buried lol. They are used all the time to run hot and chilled water through. The only requirement to move the glycol mix is a small circ pump and the controller shown. Yes chillers are better in some situations but the passive fan coil is cheap as chips to run, I'm waiting for a decommissioned AC condensing unit in spring to use for glycol. Mind you they won't work much when over 60 outdoors. The op seems to like valves and stuff . so flow valves (ball) should be a walk lol. I use both chiller and passive and they both have advantages .


I'm trying to find fan coils, and I'm not getting results. I know what you're talking about, but I'm not sure they're called "fan coils". Also searched for radiators to see if any popped up. But, no luck.

Do you have any links, or alternate names for them?


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 21, 2017)

Well if you want cheap I would check the wreckers for a car rad lol. I'll have a look and see what I can find later at home. I've always figured I would use a ac condenser and just run water through it but it's not a huge issue for me with the chiller up and running now. I'll get back to you tonigh .


----------



## rkymtnman (Dec 21, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I'm trying to find fan coils, and I'm not getting results. I know what you're talking about, but I'm not sure they're called "fan coils". Also searched for radiators to see if any popped up. But, no luck.
> 
> Do you have any links, or alternate names for them?


are you talking about something like a transmission cooler? blow air thru it and it will cool off the res water?


----------



## JSB99 (Dec 21, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Well if you want cheap I would check the wreckers for a car rad lol. I'll have a look and see what I can find later at home. I've always figured I would use a ac condenser and just run water through it but it's not a huge issue for me with the chiller up and running now. I'll get back to you tonigh .


Cool, thx!


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## JSB99 (Dec 21, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> are you talking about something like a transmission cooler? blow air thru it and it will cool off the res water?


Yeah, I think that's what I was thinking of. For some reason I thought the coils were in a spiral, with the fan. 

So what I'm thinking is mounting one outside the grow room wall, and using a pump to either run a closed-loop with an ss wort coil, or running the soup directly through it.

I could get a tranny oil radiator, like this and mount a fan, or get one with a fan, like this.

Opinions?


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## rkymtnman (Dec 21, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Yeah, I think that's what I was thinking of. For some reason I thought the coils were in a spiral, with the fan.
> 
> So what I'm thinking is mounting one outside the grow room wall, and using a pump to either run a closed-loop with an ss wort coil, or running the soup directly through it.
> 
> ...


i don't see why it wouldn't work. you might have to mess with fan speeds and how fast you pump the water thru it. 

how many degrees F do you need to drop it do you think?


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## JSB99 (Dec 21, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> i don't see why it wouldn't work. you might have to mess with fan speeds and how fast you pump the water thru it.
> 
> how many degrees F do you need to drop it do you think?


Probably 8 to 10 degrees. I'm getting two different readings. My aquarium thermometer shows 68, but my tds pen w/temp probe show high 70's. It felt cool to me, but I wouldn't be able to say how warm it was like that.


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## JSB99 (Dec 21, 2017)

rkymtnman said:


> i don't see why it wouldn't work. you might have to mess with fan speeds and how fast you pump the water thru it.


A few comments back, @Budley Doright posted a cool thermo switch that'd work perfect for this!


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## JSB99 (Dec 21, 2017)

I may not even need a chiller, depending on what my real temps are. My grow room stays cool, and I use a fan for evaporative cooling with my controller reservoir. Like I said above, the water felt pretty cool to me, but my digital thermometer was showing high 70's and low 80's. But again, my aquarium thermometer was always around 68. The reason I'm focusing on this is because my roots ended up kind of slimy, and darker yellow, so I was thinking this was the cause. But now I'm thinking there may be other factors causing it.


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 21, 2017)

If you can't maintain under 70 I would say the best investment you could make would be a chiller of some kind if you want to continue with a flooded root zone system IMO. Not saying it can't be done, I did it for years but things got a lot better with the addition of controlled water temps. As for running your res water through an outdoor coil, not sure if I would but I never considered it with my outdoor temps in the -30c's lol.


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## JSB99 (Dec 21, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> If you can't maintain under 70 I would say the best investment you could make would be a chiller of some kind if you want to continue with a flooded root zone system IMO. Not saying it can't be done, I did it for years but things got a lot better with the addition of controlled water temps. As for running your res water through an outdoor coil, not sure if I would but I never considered it with my outdoor temps in the -30c's lol.


Alright, I'm fairly convinced that my aquarium thermometer was correct @ 68f/20c. My new probe has a thermometer as well. So I put the aquarium thermometer in the reservoir and I read 60 degrees. Then I check it with my new probe and it was 60° as well. My old probe red 68°in the reservoir. So the temperatures in my rdwc were actually right where they should have been.

So that means something else is causing my slime. It wasn't bad, but my roots weren't shiny white either. I think I sterilized everything a lot more aggressively this time though. I scrubbed everything down and sprayed everything with bleach. Hopefully that'll help. Can anyone think of anything else that might be causing it?


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## Budley Doright (Dec 22, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Alright, I'm fairly convinced that my aquarium thermometer was correct @ 68f/20c. My new probe has a thermometer as well. So I put the aquarium thermometer in the reservoir and I read 60 degrees. Then I check it with my new probe and it was 60° as well. My old probe red 68°in the reservoir. So the temperatures in my rdwc were actually right where they should have been.
> 
> So that means something else is causing my slime. It wasn't bad, but my roots weren't shiny white either. I think I sterilized everything a lot more aggressively this time though. I scrubbed everything down and sprayed everything with bleach. Hopefully that'll help. Can anyone think of anything else that might be causing it?


Light leaks will cause clear slime buildup as well but I'm still not convinced it's not res temps, even a day or two in my setup of higher temps would allow slime to gain a foot hold. I could be way wrong though and you may have other issues. Another issue may be iron bacteria but I've never seen it in a municipal system.


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## rkymtnman (Dec 22, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Can anyone think of anything else that might be causing it?


remind us what was you were using in the res? what nutes, additives, etc?? 

there is a product i've used called flying skulls z7 which is designed to fix the slime issue. if i remember, it's an enzyme


----------



## garagedays (Dec 22, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I'm trying to find fan coils, and I'm not getting results. I know what you're talking about, but I'm not sure they're called "fan coils". Also searched for radiators to see if any popped up. But, no luck.
> 
> Do you have any links, or alternate names for them?


----------



## garagedays (Dec 22, 2017)

These work well


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## JSB99 (Dec 22, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Light leaks will cause clear slime buildup as well but I'm still not convinced it's not res temps, even a day or two in my setup of higher temps would allow slime to gain a foot hold. I could be way wrong though and you may have other issues. Another issue may be iron bacteria but I've never seen it in a municipal system.


After I cut my plants down, I let the roots sit idle in the totes, for a couple days. I'm wondering if that had a lot to do with it. I didn't realize slime could develop so quickly. Originally, I was using the yellow lids, as-is. After a while, u covered the lids with Hydroton to help block the light. Not sure how much that helped. But now, the lids have several layers of thick paint, so I really doubt any light's going to make it through now.

Now that I have access to the roots, so I can check on them, I'll see if slime develops again.


----------



## JSB99 (Dec 22, 2017)

garagedays said:


> View attachment 4061709


Cool! That's pretty much what I was looking at last night, after it was suggested that these were transmission oil coolers. However, I'm not sure I'm going to need it. I'll see how this next grow goes.


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 22, 2017)

I saw a guy put the big square fans behind them and use them as hydronic heaters in his house, looked rather ghetto but worked lol.


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## JSB99 (Dec 22, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I saw a guy put the big square fans behind them and use them as hydronic heaters in his house, looked rather ghetto but worked lol.


LOL!


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 22, 2017)

garagedays said:


> View attachment 4061709


Hey thanks I may buy one for inside the lab for running chilled water cooling .


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## JSB99 (Dec 26, 2017)

I'm redoing my pipes. Initially, I wanted to use real bulkheads, but didn't have the money. I was able to get them recently. I cleaned the silicon from the totes and removed all previous pipes and fittings. Even though the silicon and my diy fittings didn't leak and we're pretty solid, it didn't allow me to break everything down for cleaning as far as I wanted. With the pipes being permanently mounted to the totes, I was having to move both totes and pipes, as a single unit. This will work way better, and be much less prone to leaking.

I'm going to have to cut bigger holes in my totes for the bulkheads, but it's easy with a jigsaw.


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 26, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I'm redoing my pipes. Initially, I wanted to use real bulkheads, but didn't have the money. I was able to get them recently. I cleaned the silicon from the totes and removed all previous pipes and fittings. Even though the silicon and my diy fittings, it didn't allow me to break everything down for cleaning as far as I wanted. With the pipes being permanently mounted to the totes, I was having to move both totes and pipes, as a single unit. This will work way better, and be much less prone to leaking.
> 
> I'm going to have to cut bigger holes in my totes for the bulkheads, but it's easy with a jigsaw.
> 
> View attachment 4063577


Holesaw will still work if you keep it tilted and use the edge of the original hole as your guide and just before you break through angle it straight. Jigsaw will work as well if your very careful.....I'm not lol.
Edit: ditch the pilot bit if redoing the holes with the drill


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## JSB99 (Dec 26, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Holesaw will still work if you keep it tilted and use the edge of the original hole as your guide and just before you break through angle it straight. Jigsaw will work as well if your very careful.....I'm not lol.
> Edit: ditch the pilot bit if redoing the holes with the drill


Thankfully, I have lots of experience cutting these holes. My biggest hole saw is 2", but this looks to be around 2 3/8" to 2 5/8". But I'm pretty good with my jigsaw and Dremel


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 26, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Thankfully, I have lots of experience cutting these holes. My biggest hole saw is 2", but this looks to be around 2 3/8" to 2 5/8". But I'm pretty good with my jigsaw and Dremel


Oh ya Dremel I could do but nope not jigsaw lol.
Edit: and that's why I have a huge holesaw collection lol.


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## JSB99 (Dec 26, 2017)

I think I'd have trouble using a larger holesaw on an existing hole. I would honk it'd move all around because of no pilot bit.


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## Budley Doright (Dec 26, 2017)

Actually it's not hard, I thought the same but if you get it going and slowly lay it in in an angle it works ok. But yes it can grab lol. The dremmel works well, forgot I had one lol. I very rarely use it but should, just got some antler to carve over the winter .


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## JSB99 (Dec 26, 2017)

Just like that


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## Budley Doright (Dec 27, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Just like that
> 
> View attachment 4063712 View attachment 4063713 View attachment 4063714 View attachment 4063715


Where did u get the fittings and how much, I'm thinking I need 5 . And great job!


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## JSB99 (Dec 27, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Where did u get the fittings and how much, I'm thinking I need 5 . And great job!


Thanks, man! I've got pretty much all of it put together, and will probably do a wet test today. I'll say this, the bulkheads were definitely worth it! After removing my diy bulkheads, and mounting the new ones, I can tell they are well worth the money!

I needed 5 myself, and it was about $32 for all of them. 

4-pack 2" bulkheads
Single 2" bulkhead


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## JSB99 (Dec 27, 2017)

In the tent...


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## JSB99 (Dec 27, 2017)

One of my oil filter wrenches works perfect for these 2" bulkhead nuts!


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## JSB99 (Dec 28, 2017)

Something I really like about these bulkheads is that I don't need to add supports under the pipes to hold them up!

 

 

Out of boredom, while waiting for the bulkheads to arrive, I spray primered the pipes, added several layers of clear coat (with some glitter for a psuedo-metallic finish), wet sanded w/2000 grit, buffed with a heavy-cut compound, a fine-cut compound, and a glaze. Then I sealed it with NuFinish. I used to detail my cars and trucks, so I had a lot of stuff just laying around LOL. Anyways, it's hard to tell, but the pipes have a deep, car-coat finish to them. I just wanted to see if I could do it


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## JSB99 (Dec 28, 2017)

I use my wetvac to drain leftover water. I set it on my window ledge, and dump it when it gets full. Way easier than trying to roll it to the tub and lift it to dump the water. I was trying to think of a way I could avoid lifting at all. Would putting a 2" drain pipe in the canister to drain it over the window ledge work, or is that going to become part of the vacuum? If so, maybe I could cap the pipe, then uncap it to drain.

Anyone got any thoughts on this?


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## Budley Doright (Dec 28, 2017)

I don't think it will drain but try it. Rig up the hose with a ball valve .


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## kingtitan (Dec 28, 2017)

I have one stainless vac that has a 1.5 or 2" drain with a threaded cap so you should be able to rig up a ball valve and some pipe 

mine looks like this one i found on google


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## JSB99 (Dec 29, 2017)

kingtitan said:


> I have one stainless vac that has a 1.5 or 2" drain with a threaded cap so you should be able to rig up a ball valve and some pipe
> 
> mine looks like this one i found on google


Sweet!


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## Yodaweed (Dec 29, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> In the tent...
> 
> View attachment 4063963 View attachment 4063967


You would been better off with 1 plant per bucket


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## JSB99 (Dec 29, 2017)

Yodaweed said:


> You would been better off with 1 plant per bucket


It's possible, but I don't think there'd be any noticeable difference. But what might be effected is the amount of time it would take for two plants to fill out the canopy, compared to four plants. I believe it would take less time with four plants. Really, I could've had one giant tote in the tent, for a single plant. But it would probably take a couple months of veg to get all the branches spread out to fill out the canopy.


----------



## Yodaweed (Dec 29, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> It's possible, but I don't think there'd be any noticeable difference. But what might be effected is the amount of time it would take for two plants to fill out the canopy, compared to four plants. I believe it would take less time with four plants. Really, I could've had one giant tote in the tent, for a single plant. But it would probably take a couple months of veg to get all the branches spread out to fill out the canopy.


I don't think you know how much roots you are gonna have in those buckets, they gonna end up tangling around each other and strangling each other somewhat.


----------



## JSB99 (Dec 29, 2017)

Yodaweed said:


> I don't think you know how much roots you are gonna have in those buckets, they gonna end up tangling around each other and strangling each other somewhat.


I knew the roots tangle up with each other, but I wasn't aware that this was causing harm to the roots. I was thinking of putting the airstones in between the two netpots, in an attempt to keep them separated. I was going to to a side by side tote comparison between that, and having the stones right under the netpots. That's the way I grew this last time.

BTW, this will be my second grow with this setup. My first grow turned out pretty decent, for my first time growing in ten years.


----------



## Yodaweed (Dec 29, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> I knew the roots tangle up with each other, but I wasn't aware that this was causing harm to the roots. I was thinking of putting the airstones in between the two netpots, in an attempt to keep them separated. I was going to to a side by side tote comparison between that, and having the stones right under the netpots. That's the way I grew this last time.
> 
> BTW, this will be my second grow with this setup. My first grow turned out pretty decent, for my first time growing in ten years.


Yea keeping the roots seperate is a great idea, they can definately cause harm to each other when fighting for root space and tangle up like mad.


----------



## JSB99 (Dec 29, 2017)

Yodaweed said:


> Yea keeping the roots seperate is a great idea, they can definately cause harm to each other when fighting for root space and tangle up like mad.


Do you think a wall of bubbles would keep them separate?


----------



## Yodaweed (Dec 29, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Do you think a wall of bubbles would keep them separate?


not sure, roots try to fill all available space


----------



## Budley Doright (Dec 29, 2017)

JSB99 said:


> Do you think a wall of bubbles would keep them separate?


No, air won't keep them apart I don't think, and no need to worry IMO, roots will be fine with two per. I run 6 plants per tote and yes that's too many but not because of roots get strangled, more to do with a extremely bushy canopy, lots of systems run multiple plants with the roots not getting strangled that I can see. Mind you I don't run trees either and do a 25-30!day veg.


----------



## GreenTools (Dec 31, 2017)

Not sure how I stumbled onto this thread at page 30....looks like reinventing the wheel....


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 1, 2018)

GreenTools said:


> Not sure how I stumbled onto this thread at page 30....looks like reinventing the wheel....


Nothing wrong with making a wheel better lol. Some have lots of time on their hands to polish their pipe .... excuse the pun lol.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 1, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> Nothing wrong with making a wheel better lol. Some have lots of time on their hands to polish their pipe .... excuse the pun lol.


Yep, got lots of time to sit around and polish my pipe LOL! Yes, making a wheel better is called "progress" and is why we don't drive around with wagon wheels on our cars


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 1, 2018)

GreenTools said:


> Not sure how I stumbled onto this thread at page 30....looks like reinventing the wheel....


I like the rims to shine on my wheels!


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 1, 2018)

Well I still polish my pipe but not quite as often as I used to ..... 38 year old girlfriend keeps this 60 year olds pipe polished to a shiny sheen .


----------



## Budley Doright (Jan 1, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Yep, got lots of time to sit around and polish my pipe LOL! Yes, making a wheel better is called "progress" and is why we don't drive around with wagon wheels on our cars


I wish we did still use wagon wheels .... I use em for my docks, hard to come by lol.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 1, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> Well I still polish my pipe but not quite as often as I used to ..... 38 year old girlfriend keeps this 60 year olds pipe polished to a shiny sheen .


LOL!!!


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 8, 2018)

I've been fine tuning everything, and wanted to tackle a few things with the water pump manifolds. I was getting some hum through the walls from the water pump. One of the reasons was because I attached the pipes right to the wall using metal straps. I didn't use anything to buffer the vibrations. But I also think some of the noise is coming from the pump itself. I think the angle of the pipes is putting pressure on the pump, causing it to run rough.

I also wanted to strengthen the manifold supports, so that it was really tight. Opening and closing those ball valves takes some strength, and the pipes are bending back and forth. It's by a pretty small amount, but over time it might start wearing out the welds. I also wanted it to be strong enough to take some bumps. I was thinking about using some copper pipe hangers, but after brainstorming ideas in the plumbing isle, I came up with something way stronger, and they're adjustable!

I found these really solid ceiling hangers and collars, and picked up a 3/8" threaded rod to connect them
 

I was trying to figure out a way to isolate vibrations from the walls. I was looking around the house, trying to come up with something. I happened to glance down and saw one of my old mouse pads. This was one of the thick, rubber mouse pads, and would work perfect!


Cut the rubber dampers, and connecting rods to size
 

I added a new melamine backboard, so the hanger plates have something solid to anchor to. 
 

Top view. I might add one more, towards the center, even though it's really solid. You can see the rubber pads mounted between the stand--offs and the board.
 

Front view
 

Final, after adding a shelf, mounting lights, etc...
 

The starts are coming along nicely!
 

Got the seeds from https://grow-legal.com. He's got a really good selection and prices! The owner is a member on RIU. I got my seeds really fast! Can't say enough good things 

From left to right: Gorilla Cookies (Expert Seeds), Girl Scout Crack (Seedsman), and White Widow (breeder unknown), which was one of two bonus seeds! These are going to be Bonsai Mums. When I do the initial top, I'll take four cuttings from one, and root them to grow in the tent.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 9, 2018)

Check out my cheap, high-capacity, utrasonic humidifier thread


----------



## Billy Liar (Jan 9, 2018)

Hi JSB,

To overcome resonance from pump to pipework I've used a few inches of flexible pipe or hose straight off the pump. I used lay-flat type hose that slipped over the pipe to avoid a point of restriction. Although looking at your setup it could be a little bit tight to do without some serious reconfiguration.. but it completely stopped the annoying resonating sound of pump hum...

Peace
BL


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 9, 2018)

Billy Liar said:


> Hi JSB,
> 
> To overcome resonance from pump to pipework I've used a few inches of flexible pipe or hose straight off the pump. I used lay-flat type hose that slipped over the pipe to avoid a point of restriction. Although looking at your setup it could be a little bit tight to do without some serious reconfiguration.. but it completely stopped the annoying resonating sound of pump hum...
> 
> ...


Thx! If I'm still getting noise, I'll still work on improving it. I'll look at incorporating some of your techniques to help. I'm hopeful this will reduce it enough. I'll probably test it tomorrow, and I'll post my results.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 11, 2018)

Billy Liar said:


> Hi JSB,
> 
> To overcome resonance from pump to pipework I've used a few inches of flexible pipe or hose straight off the pump. I used lay-flat type hose that slipped over the pipe to avoid a point of restriction. Although looking at your setup it could be a little bit tight to do without some serious reconfiguration.. but it completely stopped the annoying resonating sound of pump hum...
> 
> ...


I've reduced the noise quite a bit, but like you were saying, I'm getting resonance hum from the pipes to the mounts, and to the board.

What I'm thinking is, drilling two small holes in each collar half, then screwing small, self-tapping machine screws, to where the tips have poked through. Then, the point of contact on each pipe is very minimized to the screw tips. Same concept as higher-end speakers with iso/tip mounts for the floor.

Thoughts?


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 13, 2018)

_The kids are doing alright..._

_Black Gold soil w/Soul Synthetics nutes under T5's_
_  _


----------



## Billy Liar (Jan 13, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Thoughts


You'll still get some resonance with a rigid pipework connection to the pump. 

Peace
BL


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 13, 2018)

Billy Liar said:


> You'll still get some resonance with a rigid pipework connection to the pump.
> 
> Peace
> BL


It's okay if I get a little bit. My air pump is probably enough to drown it out some.

I did try the screw tips, but the collars wouldn't screw together with the gap. So now I'm taking a little different approach. I added a bead of silicon to the inside of the collars, to help dampen the vibrations, and trimmed the rubber backing for the plates down to size, to reduce the area of contact. 

I'm' not ready to give up on my layout quite yet. It may look a little tight, but I can get to everything just fine. I'm not one to settle, so if I'm still not getting the results I want, I'll probably rebuild my manifolds, and incorporate vinyl tubing into the pipes to help prevent the wall from resonating.


----------



## ANC (Jan 13, 2018)

Those plants are ready for transplant


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 13, 2018)

ANC said:


> Those plants are ready for transplant


Thx! First time growing mums. Wasn't sure if I should grow them taller and then top them before transplanting.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 14, 2018)

Billy Liar said:


> You'll still get some resonance with a rigid pipework connection to the pump.
> 
> Peace
> BL


Once again, I've learned from failure LOL

I was able to decrease the amount of noise, but I was still at 65dB on the other side of the wall. I unmounted the pipes from the wall mounts, and it's running virtually silent! It doesn't even register above ambient room noise!

However, I do still want to secure the pipes so that nothing moves when opening/closing valves. So I think I'm going to secure the mounts to the floor. I'll just have to seal them since they'll be mounted inside the flood area. The silicon I put on the inside of the collars should help grip the pipes.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 14, 2018)

ANC said:


> Those plants are ready for transplant


Put them in 3" pots. The roots had pretty much taken up all the space they could lol!

Since then (yesterday), they've gone through quite a growth spurt.


----------



## ANC (Jan 14, 2018)

Too small still.it will fill those pots in like 4 days.pot up to 1 or 2.5 gals.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 14, 2018)

ANC said:


> Too small still.it will fill those pots in like 4 days.


Does it matter that I'm growing these to be small mums? I wasn't sure if letting them get a little rootbound helped in keeping them small or not. If keeping them small primarily has to do with the topping and trimming, then I'll move them up to 4" pots in a couple days so that there's not a lot of loose soil.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 14, 2018)

Billy Liar said:


> You'll still get some resonance with a rigid pipework connection to the pump.
> 
> Peace
> BL


Here's my mock-up. I shouldn't get anything through the floor, right? It's probably around 1 1/2" thick subflooring.


----------



## kingtitan (Jan 16, 2018)

kingtitan said:


> How is this air pump? the 70L and 100L both say its 60 decibel, is it loud? I am looking at RDWC 6-9 site with 5 gal buckets but I I am trying to size the pumps. Thinking about ditching my current Promix soilless.


I got this pump in today and so far I am not impressed, not sure if mine is defective? i am using standard airline tube to a 12 inch air stone and i would have thought there would be so much pressure that water would bubble out but its very low, if i open up more valves its even lower. Maybe its the airstone? I got 6 of each for my 6 site setup in 12g totes https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0002AQHJQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 16, 2018)

kingtitan said:


> I got this pump in today and so far I am not impressed, not sure if mine is defective? i am using standard airline tube to a 12 inch air stone and i would have thought there would be so much pressure that water would bubble out but its very low, if i open up more valves its even lower. Maybe its the airstone? I got 6 of each for my 6 site setup in 12g totes https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0002AQHJQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Sounds like something's definitely wrong. I have mine going to 4 x 4" cylinder stones, and the output is impressive! I'll post a few pics today. 

That's a really large airstone. I would think it would still perform great, but I've never used one that large. You might be better off using two smaller stones instead of one large one.

Out of curiosity, how long is the 1/4" line going from the air manifold to the stone?


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 16, 2018)

kingtitan said:


> I got this pump in today and so far I am not impressed...


You should be getting enough bubbles to create a plume on the surface of the water.

I posted a vid at the bottom.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 16, 2018)

They grow up so fast . I'm going to transplant them to 4" pots in the next couple days. This is actually the first time I've grown in soil. I've always done hydro. It's just my mum's though. Saw a horrible article about keeping mother plants in a DWC! IMHO, that's one of the worst ways! Too many points of failure. Besides, why would anyone want a super-charged mother plant? Unless it's a clone farm or something, I guess.


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 16, 2018)

*Hell yea*
Looks like a weed spa to me


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 16, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> *Hell yea*
> Looks like a weed spa to me


Whatever keeps these Mama's happy


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 16, 2018)

My mini-dwc mockup, for veg. I'm thinking it would be really easy to do a top feed and drain using the totes below for reservoirs. I'll have to think about that.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 16, 2018)

kingtitan said:


> ...12 inch air stone


I mentioned that the airstone you got was really big, but then I looked at the link. I thought you meant a round 12" stone. Didn't know you meant a bar. This pump should EASILY handle 6 of those.


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 16, 2018)

Look up spyder air injection 

Thay wher cool looking a few years ago but i never tried them as i went to waterfalls.

But the 4 inch pawfly cheapies on amazon 8 bucks and have nice suction cups that actually work well


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 16, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Look up spyder air injection
> 
> Thay wher cool looking a few years ago but i never tried them as i went to waterfalls.
> 
> But the 4 inch pawfly cheapies on amazon 8 bucks and have nice suction cups that actually work well


But even with those bars, shouldn't he be getting massive bubbles? I would imagine any kind of stone would work, even if some are better than others.


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 16, 2018)

Sorry i thought you where looking for other airstones i didnt read his post lol.

All depends on the air pump.

A little pump has a hard time maintaing pressure from end to end. I only bought long bars 1 TIME lol
It basically leaks out of the stone before it can fill the bar with air if that makes sense

But if his airpump is big enough it might push fhe whole lenght of the bar.

For cheap stones the 1$ 6 inchers work ok 
enough. 

Truth be told after i got my big boy air pump 
I havent tried a 12.

I gota do some chores for the woman
But ill see if i still have a 12 incher and hook it up to the alita it definitely spits out the air!


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 16, 2018)

If it matters the alita 140 is a bad ass pump and pushes 10 stones pretty well .

Its not quiet but its much more hearing freindly then cheap pumps hard to describe


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 17, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> If it matters the alita 140 is a bad ass pump and pushes 10 stones pretty well .
> 
> Its not quiet but its much more hearing freindly then cheap pumps hard to describe


Yeah, I really want an Alita! When I start upgrading, I'll be getting one, as well as a Danner Mag drive. Surprisingly, mine isn't all that loud. However, I've gone through some steps to help contain the noise and vibrations. I can barely hear it on the other side of the door, when it's shut, and nowhere else in the house.

As far as the bubble bar, I know what you mean about losing pressure. I had a couple way back, but went to calendars, and stuck with them. Way better!


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 17, 2018)

Whats a calander like for straining food?

Yea man alita are spendy but worth EVERY penny
Cause its sucks to drop the better part of 2 bills on a pump.

But its not a pump its a compressor!lol
Says so on the pump ha ha

Mine is just the 140 lph 

But it runs ten site NO problems with more on the manifold 

When i first plugged it in it was loud as fuck

Then i hooked all the air lines to it and poof you cant really hear it over bubbles  still has some reverberation but compard to my old 
Buzzy pumps way better as far as sound travel


----------



## kingtitan (Jan 17, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> I mentioned that the airstone you got was really big, but then I looked at the link. I thought you meant a round 12" stone. Didn't know you meant a bar. This pump should EASILY handle 6 of those.


Yeah i noticed it pours out without filling the bar but i guess this will last longer since it will just clog up and move on to the non clogged areas! ill post a pic of it running 6 of them, worked a bit better but I am still not satisfied with the output, maybe ill grab a few cheapo round ones from wal mart and see what it looks like.

Now i just need to build something to insulate the sound a bit, maybe some foam box over it with air openings

Thanks for the vid! you are awesome


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 17, 2018)

The only problem ive found with the 12s not bubbling across the whole bar is

Since the bar doesn't fully pressurize

It only spits out big bubbles. Not necessarily a bad thing but not ideal.

The six inch ones will kick out more "fine" bubbles.

The 12 will get you through the grow though

And like i said i never hooked a 12 to my big pump to see.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 17, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Whats a calander like for straining food?
> 
> Yea man alita are spendy but worth EVERY penny
> Cause its sucks to drop the better part of 2 bills on a pump.
> ...


You're making me jealous, dude lol! There are a few large upgrades I'll be doing. Along with the air and water pumps, I'll be building my cob LED at some point. I'm going to get a 600w Ushio hps, and I hope to have my cob array built before it's ready to be replaced.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 17, 2018)

Just put these beauties in 4" pots, where I'm hoping to keep them. I'm thinking about putting these under the 600w until I take some cuttings and top them. Hopefully that'll be in a week or so.


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 17, 2018)

Yea right your seedling makin me jealous. 

I just popped 6 but im experimenting with rockwool..... lets say i. Used to hydro without the wool lol.

But they're still tickin


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 17, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Yea right your seedling makin me jealous.
> 
> I just popped 6 but im experimenting with rockwool..... lets say i. Used to hydro without the wool lol.
> 
> But they're still tickin


LOL, thx!

I've never used rockwool either. I used to use rapid rooters. They work awesome, but they're kind of pricey so I haven't used them in a while.

Seeds came from a dude right here at RIU! https://grow-legal.com/


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 17, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Yea right your seedling makin me jealous.
> 
> I just popped 6 but im experimenting with rockwool..... lets say i. Used to hydro without the wool lol.
> 
> But they're still tickin


I think these are the best starts I've ever grown, and I'm wondering if my fogger is making that much of a difference. The fan blows all the fog towards the plants, and I'm able to keep my RH around 60%.

The fogger/humidifier has been running for over a week from the same fill. The reservoir's almost empty, but I probably have another day before I need to top off the reservoir again.


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 17, 2018)

I have used RR for years but ive had issues with them as well.

For trying rockwool i REALLY like it for starting seeds.

But after its growing in the 4inch block.
Im not used to plants drooping probably
Too wet.

And i underfed since they stayed wet for so long

So now i bumped the feed and shaking the excess out lol.

They are "ok" but definitely not my best work ha ha


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 17, 2018)

For water pump i can recommend syncra.

If you like quiet 

I like shopping the big reef supply stores.
Cause them boys use some sweet gear
When it comes to air and water pumps 

Edit to add the reef stores are a good place to find stuff that runs quietly as well


----------



## dtl420 (Jan 17, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> I think these are the best starts I've ever grown, and I'm wondering if my fogger is making that much of a difference. The fan blows all the fog towards the plants, and I'm able to keep my RH around 60%.
> 
> The fogger/humidifier has been running for over a week from the same fill. The reservoir's almost empty, but I probably have another day before I need to top off the reservoir again.
> 
> View attachment 4074733


What is that you've got in the watering bowl? I assume that's your humidifier? how's it work?


----------



## dtl420 (Jan 17, 2018)

Harbour freight has some pretty cheap water pumps if you looking for price over quality. I already have all the tools I need and someone got me a gift card for there a couple of years ago. I go the most expensive one they had (only like $30 I think). It's a pacific hydrostar, 620gph, 11.5 head lift. It's pretty quiet in the res and never fucked up on me.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 17, 2018)

Does anyone think I should stick them under the 600w mh, or will they stay more squat under the t5 hood? I'd think the under leaves would get more light with the hid.


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 17, 2018)

T5 getting great results so far..

Im actually going to dig out my old clone box from back in the day !
I sprouted my seeds under a 600 with a fan and they still stretched!

Going to try floros again to see if it helps
Yours look great


----------



## dtl420 (Jan 17, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Does anyone think I should stick them under the 600w mh, or will they stay more squat under the t5 hood? I'd think the under leaves would get more light with the hid.


I imagine they will grow a lot quicker under the mh.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 17, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> I have used RR for years but ive had issues with them as well.
> 
> For trying rockwool i REALLY like it for starting seeds.
> 
> ...


It's like you're trying to recover, after losing traction on an icy road. Back and forth, trying to go straight again LOL!


----------



## dtl420 (Jan 17, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> T5 getting great results so far..
> 
> Im actually going to dig out my old clone box from back in the day !
> I sprouted my seeds under a 600 with a fan and they still streched!
> ...


I love my t5's for veg! Makes the whole process so much more exciting when you can see exactly how much they grew the night before.


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 17, 2018)

Ha ha yea
Definitely not as easy as plunking it in a hydro system lol

Im so not used to how long the wool stays wet.

But mabey it will help when they are bigger

I havent had droopy plants in years unless i fuckem up. Lol


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 17, 2018)

dtl420 said:


> What is that you've got in the watering bowl? I assume that's your humidifier? how's it work?


That's my diy cheapo, large-capacity cool-mist humidifier/fogger . Check it out...

My cheapo fogger thread


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 17, 2018)

dtl420 said:


> I love my t5's for veg! Makes the whole process so much more exciting when you can see exactly how much they grew the night before.


I hear ya! Each morning I check on them I'm surprised at how much bigger they are from when I checked on them before bed!


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 17, 2018)

Airpump sucks moist air from chamber?


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 17, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Airpump sucks moist air from chamber?


No, the blue cup contains the fog created by the nebulizer, which is also in the cup. The pump blows air into the cup, forcing the fog out of the little holes, at the top of the cup.


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 17, 2018)

Sick love diy


----------



## dtl420 (Jan 17, 2018)

That's fuckin awesome. I love diy stuff.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 17, 2018)

Thx!


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 17, 2018)

From the feedback, I've decided to keep the girls under the t5's. I'm trying to avoid any stretch, and I'm recalling how my past plants did just that under the hid, like cold$moke mentioned. Makes me want to get another t5 for vegging. It'd definitely save money. I'd probably make some sort of mount so I could hang it under the reflector hood. Then again, I'm going to be building one, of two, cob arrays soon (one for each half of my tent). Anyone know about the stretch under LEDs?


----------



## kingtitan (Jan 17, 2018)

I use reefsupplies.ca for a lot of my reef needs, they are very well priced. picked up another danner mag 9.5 for my rdwc cause my reef one has been going on for over 10 years now without issue. Usually there is a local shop that is all about the hobby and has cheaper hardware prices or match but he was out of stock on the 9.5.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 17, 2018)

This is what I'm thinking for a simple top-feed system. I was thinking of putting a bucket inside one of the totes, but I would have a hard time getting to it with the lids on. I might be able to access it through one of the cutouts.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 19, 2018)

As much as I love the way the mums are growing, it's about time to chop them in half, to mum them up.

Anyone think these are too young/small to top?


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 19, 2018)

Shit look ripe and juicy to.me lol


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 19, 2018)

Alright, topped them. Almost made me cry, cutting these beauties! The tops were huge, for how small they are. But, everything looks great after the top, and I now know what to expect when I clone them.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 19, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Shit look ripe and juicy to.me lol


Good to know LOL!


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 19, 2018)

Throw them tops in the cloner 

I always liked taking the top of the seed cause its technically the seed top?

So if you keep taking the top its not really a clone?

Sorry just where my spacey mind takes me lol


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 19, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Throw them tops in the cloner
> 
> I always liked taking the top of the seed cause its technically the seed top?
> 
> ...


I already tossed them out. It's okay, because I need 4 clones to root. I'm sure these will provide some real soon.


----------



## Nafydad420 (Jan 20, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Just put these beauties in 4" pots, where I'm hoping to keep them. I'm thinking about putting these under the 600w until I take some cuttings and top them. Hopefully that'll be in a week or so.
> 
> View attachment 4074605 View attachment 4074606


They are so much prettier than mine  lol


----------



## Nafydad420 (Jan 20, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Does anyone think I should stick them under the 600w mh, or will they stay more squat under the t5 hood? I'd think the under leaves would get more light with the hid.


Dude don't change! They are loving whatever you are doing. Why change it ?


----------



## Nafydad420 (Jan 20, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> I hear ya! Each morning I check on them I'm surprised at how much bigger they are from when I checked on them before bed!


I gotta know what t5s you have.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 20, 2018)

Nafydad420 said:


> I gotta know what t5s you have.


The cheapest t5 hood and lights I could find, because they are all the same LOL!
This is the one I got - Virtual Sun 2-ft 4-Lamp T5. I paid $59.99 for mine. They are sold out right now, but there tons of them online.

Its not the light, and I'm not using any kind of special, expensive soil. I've got other things going on that are influencing the growth. This isn't bragging, it's just what I think is contributing to the growth:

The environment is very well controlled, and I keep the humidity around 60% with my fogger
I've got great circulation, to where most of the fans are twitching
I keep my light between 4" to 6" above the tops, and make sure my fans are removing any standing heat
I rearrange the plants at least once a day so they get a variety of wind and fog through the fans
I don't water on a schedule, and I don't use a hydrometer. If the soil on top looks fairly dry, I pick them up and see how light they are. Even if they're light, sometimes I let them go a bit longer, which encourages the roots to go looking for moisture
I pay attention to my plants. They'll tell me if there are any problems, or if I need to adjust my nutes
And, practice, research, and asking the pros 
I finally got my fans arranged how I like them. It's a small space, which makes it difficult to get to the back plant (one of the reasons I rotate them). I pay attention to "circulating" and not just blowing the leaves. Circulation plays such a huge part in their growth! They way I've got the fans now, all the plants are being rustled the same amount.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 20, 2018)

BTW, using Black Gold Organic Soil from Walmart, and Soul Synthetics nutes


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 20, 2018)

I love those little humidty foggers you made.

I scraped the idea of using one for nutrients 
But im now thinking of using it just for humidity


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 20, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> I love those little humidty foggers you made.
> 
> I scraped the idea of using one for nutrients
> But im now thinking of using it just for humidity


LOL, yeah, I love those things! They're fun to play with.


----------



## Nafydad420 (Jan 20, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> LOL, yeah, I love those things! They're fun to play with.


Yea my humidity stays low right now about 32. I'm going to steal that humidifier idea.. lol


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 20, 2018)

Nafydad420 said:


> Dude don't change! They are loving whatever you are doing. Why change it ?



These already had a plan for them, even before I got the seeds. These are going to be my "Bonsai Mums", which are mother plants that have been trained heavily to take up a small footprint, wherever you're keeping them. That means you can keep a few of your favorite strains in a small space, and always have access to clones. One of the advantages of keeping mothers, especially in soil, is that they can survive disasters. So, if the plants in your grow die, for whatever reason, you still have an immediate source to get back up and running again. 

Bonsai Mums


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## JSB99 (Jan 20, 2018)

Nafydad420 said:


> Yea my humidity stays low right now about 32. I'm going to steal that humidifier idea.. lol


Oh yeah, definitely! I was hovering around 30% myself. After adding my fogger, my plants exploded! I can get up into the 70% range. I open the door a little, or a lot, to control the humidity level. I could have my exhaust fan do it for me, which is what I got it for, but cracking the door is free


----------



## Nafydad420 (Jan 20, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Oh yeah, definitely! I was hovering around 30% myself. After adding my fogger, my plants exploded! I can get up into the 70% range. I open the door a little, or a lot, to control the humidity level. I could have my exhaust fan do it for me, which is what I got it for, but cracking the door is free


Does keeping the humidity just that much higher keep temps down noticeably at all?


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## JSB99 (Jan 20, 2018)

Nafydad420 said:


> Does keeping the humidity just that much higher keep temps down noticeably at all?


Yep. I used to have one in my veg cabinet, that didn't have the greatest fans, and it would drop the temps as much as 10 degrees. But you can't do that during flower. You want to stay below 50%, and 30% is even better.


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## JSB99 (Jan 20, 2018)

I wonder if the plants are foliar feeding off the fog


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## JSB99 (Jan 21, 2018)

My little monsters are outgrowing the light spread! I think I'm going to invest in another hood and have a 2ft square, instead of the 12"x24" footprint I've got right now. 

They are definitely not outgrowing the height LOL! These girls are really staying squat! The two new tops on each look awesome!


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## JSB99 (Jan 21, 2018)

I think I'm going to mount my 8-CFLs on the outsides of the hood, to get some extra coverage. I want to keep the closet door shut, but it'll get too warm in there after a while. I turned my exhaust fan on the lowest it'll go, and it stays around 73, under the lights (probably 75 at the canopy). I want it just a bit warmer in there, so the CFLs will help with that. The CFL tubes stay fairly cool, but those attached ballasts put off a lot of heat, and will definitely raise the temps a few degrees. The reason I want to keep the door shut is because it's sealed, and helps keep the critters and dust out. The grow room door is also sealed.


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## Cold$moke (Jan 21, 2018)

How old are they again 
Look great


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## JSB99 (Jan 21, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> How old are they again
> Look great


Thanks! Planted them on 12/8, so 6 weeks


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## JSB99 (Jan 21, 2018)

I might wait a bit before going through all the work of setting up more lights. At some point, I think I'm going to be trimming off those huge fans. Once they get to the right height, cutting the fans in half, or removing altogether, should slow down the growth some so they don't get out of control.

Anyone want to chime in on my theory.


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## Cold$moke (Jan 21, 2018)

I dont think it will slow those happy girls a bit 

I just stripped some girls hard to slow them 
Never seems to work they just get bushy lol


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## JSB99 (Jan 21, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> I dont think it will slow those happy girls a bit
> 
> I just stripped some girls hard to slow them
> Never seems to work they just get bushy lol


Should've been more careful with what I wished for LOL! I can't wait to grow one of these out!

Do you think they're staying so short because they're under a T5, instead of an hid?


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## Cold$moke (Jan 22, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Should've been more careful with what I wished for LOL! I can't wait to grow one of these out!
> 
> Do you think they're staying so short because they're under a T5, instead of an hid?


This is one area where i always felt like a noob.

Cause back in the day peeps werent popping as many beans as they do today. At least i sure didnt lol. I only popped beans when i was looking for something new . Or lost my cuts

Nowadays peeps pop beans like no tomorrow
Which is awsome .
And ill admit ive gone crazy on buying beans before lol.


But keeping short seedlings is somthing ive never really tried to do but still.havent done lol

i figured i would try to keep these last ones as short as possible... so i sprouted under my gavita @600 about 4 feet under the light cause i didnt want to fry them.

I had a fan on them the whole time
And they still got a little streched.

So im going to dig out my t5s this next run to try and get them short .

But then i think im always trying to get them to stretch and fill nets lol

So why do we try and keep them so short is it the node spacing leople are worried about?

Any how i probably didnt help much this time lmao


----------



## Nafydad420 (Jan 22, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> This is one area where i always felt like a noob.
> 
> Cause back in the day peeps werent popping as many beans as they do today. At least i sure didnt lol. I only popped beans when i was looking for something new . Or lost my cuts
> 
> ...


What t5s you rocking?


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## Cold$moke (Jan 22, 2018)

Old ones lol


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## Nafydad420 (Jan 22, 2018)

I'm looking to get some and I can't quite decide.. I want someone to tell me theirs are great lol.


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## Cold$moke (Jan 22, 2018)

Just look online for comparisons monster gardens does lots..

But for the most part a t5 is a t5. Sure you can put spendy bulbs in them. And there are a few that supposedly pysh harder but with more heat.

The whole selling point with t5s was HUGE EVEN spread of light without much heat so they coild be placed close crazy close to where ive had.mine grow into the light and get burnt lol

For a while i was a small space grower.
Doing scrogs in thin beds of coco and those t5s grew FIRE

But eventually seeing everyone with huge buds i wanted in so i put a air cooled 1k digi in there.

T5s are awsome though and if thats all you had you coild do alot worse.

But now i want to try and hit big numbers with low watts lol. Or at least hit the same numbers with less watts


----------



## Nafydad420 (Jan 22, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Just look online for comparisons monster gardens does lots..
> 
> But for the most part a t5 is a t5. Sure you can put spendy bulbs in them. And there are a few that supposedly pysh harder but with more heat.
> 
> ...


i was thinking about using a t5 for veg, put the plants under them a few weeks before they go under the MH.


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## JSB99 (Jan 22, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> for the most part a t5 is a t5. Sure you can put spendy bulbs in them. And there are a few that supposedly pysh harder but with more heat.


 Exactly! That's why I got the cheapest T5 I could find. Here's the thing though, the hood I got is very well built! It's as good as any of the higher priced hoods. But more importantly, if the lights were inferior, for whatever reason, you can replace the tubes for real cheap. The markup seems to have to do with the hood, because I haven't really seen any manufacturer say that their bulbs were the brightest.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 22, 2018)

Nafydad420 said:


> i was thinking about using a t5 for veg, put the plants under them a few weeks before they go under the MH.


I'm actually debating putting these under the MH, so they do stretch a little. Then, once I take my first cuttings, I'll trim them up and stick them back under the t5.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 22, 2018)

Nafydad420 said:


> I'm looking to get some and I can't quite decide.. I want someone to tell me theirs are great lol.


Again, it's not the light. They are all pretty much the same. My T5 is the absolute cheapest one I could find, and mine are doing great. 

I'd suggest getting one, but pay more attention to the other factors that effect their growth, like circulation, stable environment, proper feeding, providing the right amount of nutes, and most importantly, paying attention to what your plants are telling you.

Important tip - If your plants are doing great, it doesn't mean adding more nutes will make the plants do even better. It doesn't work like that. Nutes are the equivalent of vitamins, not food.


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 22, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Just look online for comparisons monster gardens does lots..
> 
> But for the most part a t5 is a t5. Sure you can put spendy bulbs in them. And there are a few that supposedly pysh harder but with more heat.
> 
> ...


I've been keeping my light around 4" to 6" above the canopy. I raise it a little to keep a larger footprint, but there's only so much this will work, because the T5's lose too much intensity, quickly. There's a huge difference in intensity between 4" and 6", and even a difference in the small space between the tubes in the hood. Floros also don't have the penetrating intensity of an HID. Leaves allow up to 85% of light to pass through. So, if you've got a high-powered light, even the lowers, in the shade, will be getting useable light. With floros, much less light makes it through, so the lowers are much more dependant on the stray light that comes from gaps in the leaves, and reflections off other objects. This might explain why plants seem to stretch under HIDs. It's not that the plants stretch, it's that the bottom of the plants are growing much more evenly with the top. With the T5's, the majority of growth is going to be limited to the very top layers.

That's just a theory


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## Cold$moke (Jan 22, 2018)

I dont have any pics as it was before i had a smart phone (im old right)

But i had my 8 bulb t5 (sunleaves) and my scrog was a prefect mat of small pinecones tons...

The plants love t5s but as jsb said not much for penetration.


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## Cold$moke (Jan 22, 2018)

Think of the food thing like this .

In hydro it is their only source of food.
But giving to much is like eating mcdonalds all day every day. Body just cant handle.it


----------



## Cold$moke (Jan 22, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Exactly! That's why I got the cheapest T5 I could find. Here's the thing though, the hood I got is very well built! It's as good as any of the higher priced hoods. But more importantly, if the lights were inferior, for whatever reason, you can replace the tubes for real cheap. The markup seems to have to do with the hood, because I haven't really seen any manufacturer say that their bulbs were the brightest.


Ive seen some manufacturers that "supposedly" push them harder but again come more heat .
Which in my mind fucks with the low penetration. And the ability to slam that light on them (with a fan of course )


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 22, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Think of the food thing like this .
> 
> In hydro it is their only source of food.
> But giving to much is like eating mcdonalds all day every day. Body just cant handle.it


For the noobs though, an easy way to think of it is, light is food, and nutes are vitamins.


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## Cold$moke (Jan 22, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> I'm actually debating putting these under the MH, so they do stretch a little. Then, once I take my first cuttings, I'll trim them up and stick them back under the t5.


This is a good idea .

Also if you want to keep your mums small till you need them again.

Can you prune the roots like a bonsai?

In my root pruning experiment i noticed that the clones that get their roots pruned put off massive lateral fish bone roots.

But the plant it self has stayed very short and im only using a cheap vipar spectra in my veg area and its way high. I figured it was going to strech for light. But it hasnt yet


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## JSB99 (Jan 22, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Ive seen some manufacturers that "supposedly" lush them harder but again come more heat .
> Which in my mind fucks with the low penetration. And the ability to slam that light on them (with a fan of course )


Exactly!


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## JSB99 (Jan 22, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> This is a good idea .
> 
> Also if you want to keep your mums small till you need them again.
> 
> ...


Yep, root pruning is part if keeping mums. But not for about a year, from what I understand.


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## JSB99 (Jan 22, 2018)

I like to think of floros/CFLs as having lots of HP, but little torque, where as HIDs have HP and lots of torque.


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## Cold$moke (Jan 22, 2018)

Boom

I will say though that buds grown under t5 may not be as big as hid but every bit as good


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## JSB99 (Jan 22, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Boom
> 
> I will say though that buds grown under t5 may not be as big as hid but every bit as good


I can agree with that . If I was limited to using T5's, I'd have a whole table of shorties, growing in an SOG/SCROG, and would be just as happy as using HIDs. But COB LEDs are where I'm heading, which should give the best of both worlds!


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## Cold$moke (Jan 22, 2018)

Im a fledgling led user lol

But im planing on trying a build soon


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## JSB99 (Jan 22, 2018)

Under the indoor sun:

I think some little monsters are going to be awfully happy


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## JSB99 (Jan 22, 2018)

I moved the fogger up, so I can get it closer to the plants. Being in the tent, the air is drawn out from the exhaust fan, so it's more difficult to humidify the whole area. But getting the fogger closer puts he fog right under the canopies, and then the air gets drawn up to the exhaust. That means the fog travels through the leaves, and the plants are able to use the extra moisture.

I have the reservoir with it's back to the fans so they don't interfere with the fog, and blow it away. Right now, the fog hovers for a bit between the buckets. I also covered the reservoir. It was getting a little slimy. I quickly cleaned and sterilized the reservoir. Took just a couple minutes.

 

Holy shit, looks at the size of those fans! It's going to be a battle trying to keep these small LOL! I think when I get them to the right size, I'll raise the T5 hood to around 12" or higher, which should slow them down. If you look closely, you can see some accumulating fog at the base of the buckets.


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## JSB99 (Jan 23, 2018)

I'm about to FIM these. Looks like I've got 4 tops on each. Should I FIM them all? 
The shoots on the plant on the right look too big, so I'll wait until new ones appear.


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## JSB99 (Jan 25, 2018)

Yesterday, I got my power bill and it's a little high, because it's been cold. I decided to put the mums back under the T5's to save a few bucks.

This morning, I saw that my two outer tubes didn't fire. The two outers are on one switch, and the inners are on the other. I'm almost certain it's the ballast. I'm trying to get a replacement or refund. If I can't, I'll just get a ballast. They're cheap. The hood's solid, so it's worth it. In the meantime, I rigged up the hood with eight CFLs, so they're getting full light again. Even after I get four T5's going again, I might keep the CFLs on the hood, for the extra footprint.

BTW, that's one of my scales on the hood that I use as a counterweight, so the hood stays level.


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## Cold$moke (Jan 25, 2018)

Sucks ballasts died


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## Cold$moke (Jan 25, 2018)

Im pretty sure you can get replacement ballasts for it at homedepot

But i dont know if its worth it to you


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## JSB99 (Jan 26, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Im pretty sure you can get replacement ballasts for it at homedepot
> 
> But i dont know if its worth it to you


I imagine Amazon's got them for cheap, but I'm hoping the seller gives me a refund.


----------



## SSGrower (Jan 26, 2018)

Nafydad420 said:


> Yea my humidity stays low right now about 32. I'm going to steal that humidifier idea.. lol


Is it really stealing? Or does it just make you feel like a badass to say it?


----------



## JSB99 (Jan 26, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Im pretty sure you can get replacement ballasts for it at homedepot
> 
> But i dont know if its worth it to you


Found some online for $12.


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## JSB99 (Jan 26, 2018)

Cleaning one of my 4" fans today. It was ticking a little so I thought it was either a little debris, or dust build-up. I constantly clean my little circulation fans. I'd say every week or two. Here's the thing with those, for those who don't know, it doesn't take very much dust on the blades to make them inefficient. When you're trying to circulate air around the plants, it's really important that the fans are doing their jobs well.

I get fans from Goodwill and SVP for cheap. People bring in these crusty fans that hardly blow air, and they think the fan just isn't working because it's old. I take these fans home, take them apart, clean them up, and they work like new. So noobs, if you want to save tons of money, do that!

 


I got these two powerful fans for about $5 each at Goodwill!


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## JSB99 (Jan 26, 2018)

These are the fans I was referring to


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## JSB99 (Jan 26, 2018)

SSGrower said:


> Is it really stealing? Or does it just make you feel like a badass to say it?


That'll be $5, please. That covers the penny for my thoughts, and $4.99 in state marijuana taxes.


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## JSB99 (Jan 27, 2018)

_There's some heavy fog moving in, so slow down out there _
_ _


_ _


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## JSB99 (Jan 27, 2018)

I've got a dilemma on my hands. I need the clones to warm up, and the mums to cool down. What I think I need to do is raise the mums shelf, and make it the clones shelf. Then, move the mums to the bottom. The bottom is where the cooler air comes in, and having the heat from the lights should warm up the clones a bit. Bit of a pain in the ass!


----------



## zypheruk (Jan 27, 2018)

you need to remove that mylar I feel like I'm tripping lol.


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## JSB99 (Jan 27, 2018)

zypheruk said:


> you need to remove that mylar I feel like I'm tripping lol.


Makes it look like I've got a large grow going LOL!


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## JSB99 (Jan 29, 2018)

Finished swapping the mothers and clones. Temps are staying right where should, in both areas!


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## JSB99 (Jan 29, 2018)

Today, I tackled my bushes! They're so bushy and squat, that it's hard to water them. I've also got two of them with six main nodes, and I wanted to trim them down to four. Also, the Gorilla Cookies really took off and had gotten way too tall. So I topped the four main branches. I'm not worried about how long their recovery time is, I've already got my cuttings. And now, I have many more 

Girl Scout Crack - Trimmed two nodes
Before:
 

After:
  

White Widow - Trimmed two nodes
Before:
 

After:
  

Gorilla Cookies - Topped the four main branches. I originally fimed these, but she had already grown too tall.

Before:
 

After:


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## JSB99 (Jan 29, 2018)

The mums have a lot more room now, and I have more clones I can select from, once they're rooted!


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## JSB99 (Jan 29, 2018)

Once the GSC and WW recover, I'll top the four mains, to create eight, then they'll be all set! 

The GC was just topped because she was too tall.


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## JSB99 (Jan 31, 2018)

Even though the following is just about me mounting a tent fan, I still want to post it in case any noobs are looking for ideas.

I got those two larger fans at GoodWill for cheap, but I knew I was going to have to retrofit them to work in my 4x4 tent. I was originally going to mount this one on a pole, but it would've required me to chop up the fan base quite a bit. So I decided to hang it. I might hang the other one as well, but I have to see if it'll oscillate upside down.

The 550 Cord isn't tied to the zip ties on the base of the fan, it passes through the ties, and is strung up on the other pole. This allows me to adjust it up and down, and it only takes a clothes pin to clamp the cord and keep it in place.


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## Cold$moke (Jan 31, 2018)

Super clean


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## JSB99 (Feb 1, 2018)

These mums are growing like crazy! I just topped four branches, on two of these, and they've already recovered!

Once the upper manifold, consisting of eight branches, have grown out, I'll be cutting their food, and raising the lights. I haven't been skip-feeding with these. I don't even know if I'm supposed to use water every other feeding with soil lol! But I do flush once a week. I'm going to clip the big fans back, like I did with the one in the back, so I can fit them all without overlap.

I still don't have my outer two T5's going yet. The CFLs are covering a pretty large area, fairly well. I'm going to add 2 more CFLs at the left end of the hood, since it's open and doesn't have any mylar to reflect the light back.


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## JSB99 (Feb 3, 2018)

Trimming the mums way back, today. They got really bushy again, so I removed most all the big fans, and left the smaller leaves on the nodes. Now, I have room to fit three to five more, under the hood. Still don't have my outer T5's running, but the cfl's are doing a hell of a job! I just messaged the seller again, to see if he'll send me a ballast. If I don't here from him, I'll probably just buy one. I've already got the one I need ready to go. It'll be less expensive to have those going, compared to the cfl's. It's 48w with the tubes compared to 184w with the cfl's. I guess I could turn some of them off, now that I've got them so compact.

White Widow
Before:
 

After:
 

Gorilla Cookies
Before:
 

After:
 

Girl Scout Crack
Before:
 

After:
 

Lots of room now!


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## JSB99 (Feb 3, 2018)

Built a "Pipe o' Fans"

I wanted to get some air moving in the back of T5 hood, since it's close to the wall. PC fans are super cheap if you get them from China! If you buy them by the pack, sometimes it's under a buck per fan. Old cell phone/tablet power supplies run these 80mm fans really well! These three are running off a single charger! Good Will always has these too. You can also get an actual driver for these from MeanWell, or use an old PC power supply (you have to hotwire it to work as a stand-alone power supply, but it's easy). 

You can get these little fans in some really tight spaces, to circulate some air.


----------



## Cold$moke (Feb 4, 2018)

I found a sweet little pc fan speed controller. 
Nice array o fans


----------



## JSB99 (Feb 4, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> I found a sweet little pc fan speed controller.


Cool! Any potentiometer should work. I might scout through my parts for a pan pot, and turn them down a little. They actually put out a decent breeze, amd with the plants so close, I don't want to make them move too much.


----------



## SSGrower (Feb 10, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Trimming the mums way back, today. They got really bushy again, so I removed most all the big fans, and left the smaller leaves on the nodes. Now, I have room to fit three to five more, under the hood. Still don't have my outer T5's running, but the cfl's are doing a hell of a job! I just messaged the seller again, to see if he'll send me a ballast. If I don't here from him, I'll probably just buy one. I've already got the one I need ready to go. It'll be less expensive to have those going, compared to the cfl's. It's 48w with the tubes compared to 184w with the cfl's. I guess I could turn some of them off, now that I've got them so compact.
> 
> White Widow
> Before:
> ...


Is cutting the leaves like that part of the bonsi mum technique or are you doing it for another reason?


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## JSB99 (Feb 10, 2018)

SSGrower said:


> Is cutting the leaves like that part of the bonsi mum technique or are you doing it for another reason?


Might be, I'm not sure. I just trim them because they get super bushy, really fast. I've been feeding them nutes at full strength (for small plants), and at every feeding. I'm trying to get the top eight branches on each, to grow. When those get full size, I'll raise the lights and go light on the nutes. I actually did just switch to half strength, because of having to keep up with them. They're rootbound, so they won't really be getting any wider. All they'll do is produce branches, on the manifold, for cuttings.

I'm stoned and babbling LOL! 

These are already due for a haircut! I just took these, and think it's only been about a week since I trimmed them! IIhave to water them twice a day, but I bought a mini pump, and I'm running drips to them from a reservoir (bucket). I'll post pics. They won't be as high of maintenance once I've got the branches how I want them.

 
 q


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## Cold$moke (Feb 10, 2018)

Im always babbling


----------



## SSGrower (Feb 11, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Might be, I'm not sure. I just trim them because they get super bushy, really fast. I've been feeding them nutes at full strength (for small plants), and at every feeding. I'm trying to get the top eight branches on each, to grow. When those get full size, I'll raise the lights and go light on the nutes. I actually did just switch to half strength, because of having to keep up with them. They're rootbound, so they won't really be getting any wider. All they'll do is produce branches, on the manifold, for cuttings.
> 
> I'm stoned and babbling LOL!
> 
> ...


Smoke more worry less.


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## JSB99 (Feb 11, 2018)

I've got my drips set up. With pots these small, setting up the the amount of time the timer should run, to top them off, and the amount of flow with the adjustable emitters, is a little tricky.

Check out this tiny pump! Got it for about $6, and it works great for very low-flow watering!
 

I drilled holes in the plastic trays, and mounted the drip spikes in them. This allows me to rotate the plants, and move the trays around, without the emitters moving. The zip ties really hold the water lines in place.
 

Finished:


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## JSB99 (Feb 11, 2018)

My uneventful, top-feed system. The water's just kind of dribbling out LOL! Guess that other cheap pump, though bigger, just isn't powerful enough. I don't need anything all that powerful, but I might take my 400gph main pump, and use that. Then I'll get a bigger pump for the UC. Probably like 1000, or higher. I want to oversize it a bit, so I can put my inline filter back in place.
 


I found that these little clone netpots fit on the end of the bulkhead, in the buckets. They'll work great for filters. I do think they would fit better on 1/2" or 1" bulkheads, but it'll do what I need


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## JSB99 (Feb 11, 2018)

Hooked up my 400gph pump, and I'm still getting just a dribble. Definitely not the stream I was expecting. I know they take some pressure, but I would've thought I'd get something.

With a top-feed, is it just a matter of dripping water, or does it need to spray out a bit to cover more area?


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## JSB99 (Feb 11, 2018)

Giving up on the top-feed setup. This time I'll veg in the totes, but I'm going to put a mini UC together, with the 3-gallon buckets, for the next veg. I'm going to move the shelf in the closet. Right now it's 4' on the bottom, and 2' on top. I don't need that much room on the bottom, so I'm going to put the shelf in the middle, at 3'. The top shelf is where the UC will go, and share the space with the Cloner.

I'll get six more 3/4" bulkheads, and put together a mini UC. I'll use my 400gph pump for this, and get a 1000gph pump for the big UC.
 

Bottom, with much unneeded headroom. The mums will only be getting a few inches taller.
 

I'll put the mini UC here, under a T5 hood and CFLs, like the one below.
 

Found my tri-meter, from 10 years ago, in the attic. Surprisingly still works great!
 

I had to figure out a spot to mount it, where I wasn't having to bend or stretch to see it. I'm 6'3", so I angled my pilot holes and mounted it tilted upwards.


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## Cold$moke (Feb 11, 2018)

Is that kinda like a capns top feed setup ?

Cheap pumps can be a pain sometimes

My second rdwc build i went with a 400gph i think cheap pump. And it barley dribbles in.my 4 site 5 gallon bucket system.


In my 10 gal brute setup i have the 900 gph syncra silent pump. And its about perfect .

After this run im pulling the small rdwc out in place for an tweaked nft style set up


Looks good though JSB99


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## SSGrower (Feb 12, 2018)

Looks good. Might want to try manifolding the pump, can improve flow. Also allowing flow through may improve pump performance. In other words have your 1/4 in lines manifolded to a 1 in or something and have a valve on that 1in piece that will just dump/circulate warter in the res.

I draw this from experience with waste water treatment and reclaimaition work I have done and have not applied it to hydroponics, but your pump performance curves psi. vs. flow will dictate the situation.


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## JSB99 (Feb 12, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Is that kinda like a capns top feed setup ?
> 
> Cheap pumps can be a pain sometimes
> 
> ...


The pump I'm using on the tent setup is a 400gph. It has great flow, so there's no doubt that it'll work well on the mini. If I can afford it, when I'm ready to put it together, I'd like to get a Danner mag drive. But that's going to be spendy if I'm looking at a minimum of 800gph.


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## JSB99 (Feb 12, 2018)

Trim time! Time to trim off the unneeded branches, so more energy is put into the the top eight branches of each manifold. I had a plan going into this, which was to trim off any branches that weren't on those to eight. Everything I trimmed off are perfect for cloning, and more will grow out of those spots I trimmed. I don't need any more clones right now, but when I do, I should be able to take around 24 clones on each, once the top branches grow.

*White Widow:
Before:*
 

 

*After:
 

 

Gorilla Cookies
Before:


 

After:
 

 

Here are two into four of the top eight branches on the manifold


Girl Scout Crack
Before:
 
*


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## JSB99 (Feb 12, 2018)

*After:
 
 

Much more room:
 *


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## Cold$moke (Feb 12, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> The pump I'm using on the tent setup is a 400gph. It has great flow, so there's no doubt that it'll work well on the mini. If I can afford it, when I'm ready to put it together, I'd like to get a Danner mag drive. But that's going to be spendy if I'm looking at a minimum of 800gph.


I looked at danner then i found the reef guys

And spend almost as much on a 900 syncra silent ....went with it over the danner cause i wanted my pump to be submersible or inline and i think it runs quieter 


I think im going to be going away from rdwc though it all depends on the next side by side test i do


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## drgreentm (Feb 14, 2018)

Just finished up a top feed recirculating system (well half of it) for a 16 site. I love top feed, only system I have run that will keep right up with rdwc with far less water usage. Reducing pump outlet drastically reduces its flow. If your little pump is 1/2” you will need to run 1/2” manifold up close to the pots and it will work great.


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## Tstat (Feb 15, 2018)

So, what is the consensus for a good, high quality air pump? I know you mentioned the Alita early on in the thread.
I'm running a 6 tote RDWC with a controller tote. It's based on the Current Culture UC6 model.

I currently have a mishmash of pro pumps and hydro pumps. I'd like to upgrade the pump (or pumps) and stones now that I have some extra cash. Thinking of this:

*ALITA INDUSTRIES Air Pump, 60 LPM*

It looks like it pairs up with a 12 valve manifold, and my system currently uses 12 air stones- 2 in each tote. And also 2 in the res. 

What are the best air stones, too?

EDIT: Thinking of this setup:


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## JSB99 (Feb 15, 2018)

Tstat said:


> So, what is the consensus for a good, high quality air pump? I know you mentioned the Alita early on in the thread.
> I'm running a 6 tote RDWC with a controller tote. It's based on the Current Culture UC6 model.
> 
> I currently have a mishmash of pro pumps and hydro pumps. I'd like to upgrade the pump (or pumps) and stones now that I have some extra cash. Thinking of this:
> ...


Alita's are awesome, but pricey. My inexpensive, 70LpmActive Aqua pump works great, though probably not nearly as quiet. AA also has a 110Lpm pump, with a 12-port manifold.

I would go with the large, 4" stones instead of the 2" stones you're looking at.


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## Tstat (Feb 15, 2018)

Thanks! Yea, so I really don't care about it being quiet at all. It's in the basement and has fans, carb filters, etc. running all the time. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't want to pay a premium for quiet- I only care about performance.


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## JSB99 (Feb 15, 2018)

Tstat said:


> Thanks! Yea, so I really don't care about it being quiet at all. It's in the basement and has fans, carb filters, etc. running all the time. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't want to pay a premium for quiet- I only care about performance.


Mine is in a bedroom, and I can barely hear it right outside the door, when it's shut. So, it's not all that loud. I get around 60db with my 70, and I think the 110 is around 65db or 70db. It's not going to be any louder than your other components. It blends right in


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## Tstat (Feb 15, 2018)

So, what do you suggest for a really powerful pump upgrade? This is what I have now:


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## Cold$moke (Feb 15, 2018)

Tstat said:


> So, what is the consensus for a good, high quality air pump? I know you mentioned the Alita early on in the thread.
> I'm running a 6 tote RDWC with a controller tote. It's based on the Current Culture UC6 model.
> 
> I currently have a mishmash of pro pumps and hydro pumps. I'd like to upgrade the pump (or pumps) and stones now that I have some extra cash. Thinking of this:
> ...


Alita gets my vote every time cause i hate pump drone

I bought the smaller 40 lpm
Andd i can say its having no problem running 10 different sites at once and its still got nuts left.

A 60 might actually be too big and heat your water up unnecessarily. 
But ALL ALITAS. Require a small fan for ACTIVE COOLING which is actually good for any pump .

Get what you are comfortable with spending
But you will NEVER. Hate on an alita ever.


As far as stones go 
I like the cheap 8$ pawfly stones from amazon
They have 3 really good suction cups that actually work i will be picking up a few spares of these.


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## Cold$moke (Feb 15, 2018)

1 40-60 lpm alita would rock those tubs 

Need a lil clean up lol


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## Cold$moke (Feb 15, 2018)

Remember DISSOLVED OXYGEN. Is easy to get into water .

A waterfall set up could likely replace any air stones.


But the problem is getting DO into a big root mass. Cause the outside of the rootball may have plenty of do but its the center that doenst recive any


This is where air stones can help by churning your water from the bottom up (hopefully with no dead spots)

And air stones can help push DO into the root zone.

But flow and circulation are king imo. 
Cause if you constanly refresh the water to the roots it had no choice but to be oxygenated 

At least in my wacked out mind lol


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## Tstat (Feb 15, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Need a lil clean up lol


Yea, it's a 7x3 area and most of my stuff is covered in resin from years of usage! I may just go ahead and get the 60. Unless there is something cheaper that is just as good? Again, noise is not a factor. I just want reliable, long lasting, etc.


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## Cold$moke (Feb 15, 2018)

You would be very happy with either airpump suggested

If you keep them cool and clean they will last long enough to pay for them selves over


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## JSB99 (Feb 15, 2018)

A few pages back I was talking about how the ballast, wired to the two outer T5 tubes, went out after only a month of use. Hence the addition of CFLs to the hood, to take the place of those tubes. 

I contacted the seller, and they were super cool! That hood had been discontinued, so he said he'd just give me a refund. He told me to just keep the hood, too! I figure, I'll just get another ballast, and have a hood for the price of that ballast.

I cracked the case to take a look at the faulty ballast, and much to my surprise, it's an American company! I was thinking I might be able to get it swapped out, if it was under warranty. But because it was sold in a unit, by a seller, and not directly from them, that it wasn't covered. So I bought a replacement for a mere $22, shipping included. What's cool, is that the new ballast has a 1 year warranty. So if either of them goes out, it's covered!


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## SSGrower (Feb 16, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> A few pages back I was talking about how the ballast, wired to the two outer T5 tubes, went out after only a month of use. Hence the addition of CFLs to the hood, to take the place of those tubes.
> 
> I contacted the seller, and they were super cool! That hood had been discontinued, so he said he'd just give me a refund. He told me to just keep the hood, too! I figure, I'll just get another ballast, and have a hood for the price of that ballast.
> 
> I cracked the case to take a look at the faulty ballast, and much to my surprise, it's an American company! I was thinking I might be able to get it swapped out, if it was under warranty. But because it was sold in a unit, by a seller, and not directly from them, that it wasn't covered. So I bought a replacement for a mere $22, shipping included. What's cool, is that the new ballast has a 1 year warranty. So if either of them goes out, it's covered!


On theing to look for on a t5ho balast is programmed start. This essentially allows the lamp to warm up a bit before being lit. It helps bulbs last longer.

Also look for balast factor for a given length lamp. It is usually less than 1 on most but if you search (particularly horticultural models) Ive seen them as high as 1.4. I run my t5s at 1.2, a 20% overdrive.

And now I see after typing this you have already ordered, Cheers.


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## JSB99 (Feb 16, 2018)

Check out my "Mini-fan on a Stick"! . It's great for adding a very gentle breeze to the rooted clones, to start giving them some exercise! I had an extra mic pop-screen, from the studio days, and I removed the screen, leaving just the flexible mount. Clips onto the plug just right 
 
 

The clones are coming along nicely. The White Widow ran away with the race to root. They all started rooting first, and developed really fast. The Gorilla Cookies and Girl Scout Crack are much slower, but getting there. All the WWs are in the middle. Even though I don't recommend doing this to noobs, I'm going to grow all three strains at the same time. I'll have to work to keep them the same height through the grow, but I'm sure I can manage it via topping and supercropping.
 
 

I decided to veg via the mini-dwc. Next time I'll set up the RDWC or UC, but for now, I'll go through a few weeks of managing them individually. I already installed the bulkheads, so I'm just using the 3/4" tubing as a pseudo-plug.
 
 


I saw that they have drip couplings and elbows that you can disconnect. They're pricey though! So, this is an easy way to accomplish the same. Using the really flexible 1/4" line, it easily separates from the coupling. The rigid, black 1/4" drip line is a different story! Much more difficult to attach and detach fittings. I use both because I'm a little short on tubing. Being able to easily attach and detach the tubes makes it easy to carry the buckets to where I can dump and refill them.


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## Cold$moke (Feb 16, 2018)

Psuedo plugs will work great for draining like an old waterfarm 

Nice fan o stick


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## JSB99 (Feb 16, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Nice fan o stick


Give me anything, and I'll stick a fan on it


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## JSB99 (Feb 16, 2018)

For noobs,

BTW...

You can get DC power supplies for cheap, at Goodwill! Unlike AC fans, which are frequency dependant, you can use any DC (computer) fan with most DC power supplies. Old cell phone chargers work great for a single 80mm fan! The speed, and the amount of fans that can be run off a single wall bug is going to depend on the DC output voltage, and the mA. 5vdc to 12vdc will work.

You can also order the fans in bulk, for cheap, online! They come from China, so it takes a couple weeks to arrive, but if you order 10 or 20 fans, it'll definitely save some money.

PC fans are awesome for getting into tight spaces, where you might have a dead zone of circulation. And obviously, they work great for small plants. Even though I have a clip-on AC fan breezing the mums, I could get away with just using these fans. In fact, that's probably what I'm going to do.


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## JSB99 (Feb 18, 2018)

I got a couple White Widows in the tent. 
 

For the noobs...
Even though the WW roots were more than long enough to reach the bottom of the netpots, I keep my water bubbling up through the bottom of the netpots until more of the roots are hanging through. This helps get more water bubbling through the Hydroton so that the upper roots don't dry out.


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## JSB99 (Feb 23, 2018)

I've had these small buckets set up for a few days, and I'm going to abandon the idea. Balancing such a small amount of water is really tricky. I still plan on setting up a small UC with these, along with another 3-gallon bucket as a res. I've got the big system going, and I'm going to move them from the buckets soon.
 

I decided to put my mums under the big light, and grow them out a bit. Then, I'm going to take some really good clones from each, and re-grow the mums. After some experience, I see ways I should've done things, and other things I shouldn't have done. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the original mums. Maybe I can move them outside to grow this summer.
 
 


I've got my fogger in the closet, with the young ones. In the tent, I use evaporative cooling to increase the humidity. The towel always stays wet, because it acts as a wick with the water in the bucket.
 

I had my water pump suspended, by the attaching pipes. I thought that would create the least amount of vibrations and noise. But I was getting a lot of hum going through the pipe manifolds. I could hear it in the next room, it was so loud. So, I had a 4 1/2" block of wood I was using as a temporary base for the pump. I reattached the block, and everything went silent. The block isn't attached to the floor at all, just to the pump. This isn't the best pic, but...
 

Rooted clones. These might be contenders for going outside this summer.
 


My clip-on PC fan works nicely with my fogger


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## JSB99 (Feb 23, 2018)

Finally got around to mounting my water pump fan. I just anchored the clip to a stud.


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## JSB99 (Feb 26, 2018)

These White Widows are f'n robust! They rooted right away, and are running circles around everything else!

It'd be cool to have some of these around the house, but they wouldn't do as good as a house plant.



These are under the T5+CFL hood. The hood is around 5" to 6" above, and registering between 35k - 43k lumens.
 

These were from the same set of clones. The ones on the left look pretty dinky, in comparison LOL! They've got healthy hanging roots, but they haven't taken off yet.


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## JSB99 (Feb 27, 2018)

I'm debating transplanting the two White Widows in soil to the DWC, to replace the two smaller plants on the left. I've been reading up on doing this. It seems like it's going to be a little bit of a pain in the ass, but I'm patient . With as hardy as they are, I think they'll survive.

The other option would be to close off the left tote, so it's not a part if the DWC, put a couple 5-gallon root bags in there, for the two in soil, and do a half DWC, and half soil grow. I think they're close enough in size and age, to grow evenly.

Let's take a vote. Transplant to DWC, or a side by side grow?

Opinions/advice?


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## JSB99 (Feb 27, 2018)

I think what I'm going to do is, move the WW in soil to a couple of my mini-buckets, and see how they do. What this will do is allow some time to get all the dirt off the roots, before putting them in the tent, so that I don't get debris in my pump. And, it'll give a little more time for the small plants on the left to take off. If they don't take off after a week, I'll replace them with the WW.


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## JSB99 (Feb 27, 2018)

Transplant complete! Took about an hour each, to clean all the dirt off the roots. They didn't seem effected by anything, so hopefully they'll take off pretty quickly.


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## JSB99 (Feb 27, 2018)

If you compare the ones that have been in the DWC (tent) against the ones that were growing in soil, you can see a significant difference in size. The DWC plants are quite a bit larger!


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## JSB99 (Mar 1, 2018)

I have to say, I'm really impressed with the way these White Widows grow! This one's only about 3" tall!


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## kingtitan (Mar 1, 2018)

@Tstat take a look at my journal in my sig, I based mine off the current culture as well and I am doing 6 site


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## kingtitan (Mar 1, 2018)

Just catching up on this thread, started wondering why JSB hasn't used the nice UC that got me all excited to do mine. But here we are! Looks awesome man. 

Love the muffin fan and DC plugs. my wife made me get rid of 50% of my computer hoarding before I was allowed to buy a tent lol. but even then i still have a lifetime supply of DC/AC plugs and fans, and wire...lots of wire.


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## JSB99 (Mar 1, 2018)

*Hey, check this out...
*
A while back I was wondering if having airstones directly under the netpots, as opposed to having them to the sides, made any difference. I was wondering because I had them directly underneath last time, and the roots were all spread out from the center, because of the force of the bubbles. So, I had moved one of the stones to the side, to see if there would be any difference. But, I had forgotten that I did this until last night. I've been wondering why the back White Widow was substantially larger than the front. I remembered I did this last night, so this morning I moved the front plant's stone back under the netpot. Not 3 hours later, the front plant was about caught up to the back! It was that quick!


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## JSB99 (Mar 1, 2018)

kingtitan said:


> Just catching up on this thread, started wondering why JSB hasn't used the nice UC that got me all excited to do mine. But here we are! Looks awesome man.
> 
> Love the muffin fan and DC plugs. my wife made me get rid of 50% of my computer hoarding before I was allowed to buy a tent lol. but even then i still have a lifetime supply of DC/AC plugs and fans, and wire...lots of wire.


I've been growing everything in the closet, until recently. From clones, to rooting, then vegging for a bit, its been like a month. Yeah, I'm happy to have it going again. It's so easy to keep stable, because of the amount of water 
,
PC fans are awesome! I've got some 100mm, 120mm, and 150mm fans lying around in my electronic hoarding bins LOL! I've got so many old computers, parts and stuff, to go through. I've got to purge my stone-aged old DIMMs, cards, and processors! But what if I want to build some junker PCs some day, for something! I better hold on to it LOL!


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## kingtitan (Mar 2, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> *Hey, check this out...
> *
> A while back I was wondering if having airstones directly under the netpots, as opposed to having them to the sides, made any difference. I was wondering because I had them directly underneath last time, and the roots were all spread out from the center, because of the force of the bubbles. So, I had moved one of the stones to the side, to see if there would be any difference. But, I had forgotten that I did this until last night. I've been wondering why the back White Widow was substantially larger than the front. I remembered I did this last night, so this morning I moved the front plant's stone back under the netpot. Not 3 hours later, the front plant was about caught up to the back! It was that quick!
> 
> View attachment 4098569


I was wondering this last night as I was in each tote last night to pull out roots that were traveling and looped them around the main mass to help keep it there. I remembered your post about it so perfect timing! 

So the verdict is directly under? I was looking at one of the totes and I thought maybe the airstone was acting up cause it was so low, picked up the plant and it was boiling again. So in my head no surface agitation = less DO but your experiment has proved the opposite?


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## JSB99 (Mar 2, 2018)

kingtitan said:


> ...the verdict is directly under


I haven't done any extensive testing, but from the little I've seen, I'd say directly under the netpots/root ball is better. When you think about it, getting DO to the center of the roots is the challenge. So spreading the roots out, from the force of bubbles, seems like it solves the issue. I'd imagine that a powerful pump is needed, to create the massive amount of bubbles necessary, to force the center of the roots to spread out, and ultimately grow like that.


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## JSB99 (Mar 2, 2018)

kingtitan said:


> ...the verdict is directly under?


I was also theorizing that the spread of the roots may be determining how wide the leaves and branches grow. From what I understand, the perimeter of the branches, of many plants and trees, is the same as the roots. So if the roots are spread out more, then maybe that's the way the plants are responding. The roots for the WW in front (the smaller one), were hanging straight down. Once I put the stone back, and the roots spread way out, the plant grew wider. Now, it could also be that providing more bubbles to the roots is resulting in the sudden increase in width, and not the spread of the roots.


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## JSB99 (Mar 2, 2018)

Stepping up my game...

I've decided to upgrade to a 1000w ballast and lights. I'm not getting enough spread with the 600w. The footprint for a 600w is really 3x3, and with my netpots being in a static position, I'm not able to bring plants closer to the center. I'm much more interested in potency than yield. I've got plenty of room left on my fans, and I have to check my temps to make sure they haven't dropped into the low 70's.

The ballast I got on ebay was only $73, and was one of the most popular ballasts. I also got an iPower MH and HPS. I was contemplating sticking with the 600w, and getting Eye Hortilux lamps, to provide more intensity. But I realized that the best 600w bulb doesn't come close to a basic 1k. In total, it was only $120. I did some computer work yesterday, which covered it, so it was basically free 

I'm still keeping my 600w ballast in place, because I can swap plugs with the 1000w ballast, which will be mounted next to the 600w, during early veg when I don't need as much light. This is better than dimming. FWIU, dimming lessens the life of the lamp.


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## kingtitan (Mar 2, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Stepping up my game...
> 
> I've decided to upgrade to a 1000w ballast and lights. I'm not getting enough spread with the 600w. The footprint for a 600w is really 3x3, and with my netpots being in a static position, I'm not able to bring plants closer to the center. I'm much more interested in potency than yield. I've got plenty of room left on my fans, and I have to check my temps to make sure they haven't dropped into the low 70's.
> 
> ...


This is why tonight I will be working on somehow attaching wood dowels or something to each corner of each lid and then getting a trellis net over each so I can train each one towards the centre which has been largely underutilized until the last few days as they stretch a bit more now. My first 3 are monsters and 17 inches, hoping to cut it down to 12 with net. Having on each bucket gives me more flexibility.


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## JSB99 (Mar 2, 2018)

kingtitan said:


> This is why tonight I will be working on somehow attaching wood dowels or something to each corner of each lid and then getting a trellis net over each so I can train each one towards the centre which has been largely underutilized until the last few days as they stretch a bit more now. My first 3 are monsters and 17 inches, hoping to cut it down to 12 with net. Having on each bucket gives me more flexibility.


Having shade around the sides, and especially in the corners, has really been bugging me. Last grow I was supplimenting the lights, with CFLs in the corners, and it was a mess, with all the cords. It worked pretty good, but was only a temporary solution. They added heat to my tent, and raised the temps 5 degrees.


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## JSB99 (Mar 3, 2018)

I think my White Widow are using performance enhancing drugs!


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## JSB99 (Mar 5, 2018)

I had forgotten that the White Widows rooted at least a week before the others. It was really quick, and their roots exploded. So, the others are catching up, but it'll be interesting to see if they get to the same size as the WW.


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## JSB99 (Mar 7, 2018)

I got my 1kw ballast set up today! Huge difference! I've got great coverage now! Believe it or not, the temps barely budged! This is the advantage of keeping your reflector hood air isolated from the grow area. I've only got my 6" fan for the hood, and the 4" fan for the tent exhaust, at between low and medium. Last summer I grew indoors, and my house AC didn't run any more than usual. Of course, not everyone wants to cut a six-inch hole in their subfloor LOL! That's only for the brave...and those who know how to reverse it back to normal  I probably wouldn't have moved up to the 1000 watt if I didn't have the hood isolated. I'd hate to be sucking out all the conditioned air in my house trying to keep it cool!

My new, unimpressive ballast next to my old, unimpressive ballast. They seem to grow the weed, so I'm fine with them. The way I have them makes it easy to switch back over to the 600w, for early veg when less light is needed, or as a backup.

 



*After adding the 1000w, the huge fan leaves grew by inches, in just a few hours! *
 
*


I had to spread them out:*


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## Kaydoo (Mar 8, 2018)

That WW is pumping some weight! You've probably answered it, does WW just grow this fast? Or are these autos?


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## Cold$moke (Mar 8, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> I got my 1kw ballast set up today! Huge difference! I've got great coverage now! Believe it or not, the temps barely budged! This is the advantage of keeping your reflector hood air isolated from the grow area. I've only got my 6" fan for the hood, and the 4" fan for the tent exhaust, at between low and medium. Last summer I grew indoors, and my house AC didn't run any more than usual. Of course, not everyone wants to cut a six-inch hole in their subfloor LOL! That's only for the brave...and those who know how to reverse it back to normal  I probably wouldn't have moved up to the 1000 watt if I didn't have the hood isolated. I'd hate to be sucking out all the conditioned air in my house trying to keep it cool!
> 
> My new, unimpressive ballast next to my old, unimpressive ballast. They seem to grow the weed, so I'm fine with them. The way I have them makes it easy to switch back over to the 600w, for early veg when less light is needed, or as a backup.
> 
> ...


If you like that for your next upgrade try de .

My 750 gavita replaced 1430 w so far .

But you need high ceilings 8ft at the bare min .

Still awaiting the final results though


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## kingtitan (Mar 8, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> If you like that for your next upgrade try de .
> 
> My 750 gavita replaced 1430 w so far .
> 
> ...


I am going to swap out the tent and probably rebuild the room its in right now to a grow space in the summer, I would be just under 8ft, I would still get good light/sq ft? whats the footprint? can it be run in a sealed hood or tube?


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## Cold$moke (Mar 8, 2018)

If you wanted max light id say 4x6 is the foot print.

But mine doesnt have a problem lighting up a 8x8 (7.5x7.5)

And my canopy is 7.5x6ish lol

Ill have to double check my bulb height tomorrow but i guess its 7.5 to 8 ft up and my net is 3ft off the ground


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 8, 2018)

Kaydoo said:


> That WW is pumping some weight! You've probably answered it, does WW just grow this fast? Or are these autos?


I'm not sure if the WW just grows like that, but I imagine the strain has something to do with the size. I don't grow autos.

I'm going to be trimming some of those fans back today. They're blocking a lot of the older growth.


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 8, 2018)

kingtitan said:


> I am going to swap out the tent and probably rebuild the room its in right now to a grow space in the summer, I would be just under 8ft, I would still get good light/sq ft? whats the footprint? can it be run in a sealed hood or tube?


DE lights are meant to be run in the open. They work better when they're hot, from what I understand. I've been wanting a Gativa, but don't have the headroom.


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 8, 2018)

On the money JSBB 

De bulbs need to hit a certain tempuratures or else they dont preform (weird right).

But this doesnt mean they run super hot or anything.

As in i dont notice my fan coming on more with this light then my old light.

But i grew in a 5x5x5 box for many years 
And loved my 1k digi in an aircooled hood 

Like adding nos to a car lol


But you do need headroom 
I havent gotten too brave about lowering my light as close as i can lol dont wana bleach them bitches


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 8, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> On the money JSBB
> 
> De bulbs need to hit a certain tempuratures or else they dont preform (weird right).
> 
> ...


Yeah, I think I'd want a Gorilla with both extensions, making it 9' tall. Or, just doing an open grow. But that presents its own problems to work around.


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 8, 2018)

For sure .

I was a pro when i moved out of the basment. Having it dialed in for many years

Went back to noob status when i went above ground lol

Like total opposite problems ha ha.

But its so nice to have a room i dont have to be hunched over in lol my back has never felt better  its funny i think

My room still isnt the way i want it but its getting closer

Your stuff is always good jsbb i wish i knew about weed forums when i first started but it was still illegal 15 years ago lol


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 8, 2018)

Haircut day! These are so bushy that the circulation is lacking in the center. Also some condensation on some leaves that were laying on top of others. Trimming was overdue, but they were so bushy that I didn't know where I was going to start, so I kept putting it off LOL!

 

 

 

Topped and trimmed. They look kind of ugly now, but they'll fill out again fairly soon. I don't know if I'm going to top again, or just supercrop.


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 8, 2018)




----------



## JSB99 (Mar 8, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> View attachment 4102523




Still funny as shit!


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 9, 2018)

I wanted to point something out about using outside air to cool the reflector. The flexible ducting that comes up from the floor is f'n cold! It's like an ice box! The part of the duct inside the tent will drip condensation, if I run my hand over it, because it's so cold! Granted, this works much better in the Winter, for helping control the heat in the tent. But even in the Summer, the ducting is cool to the touch, because I'm drawing air from the 30" deep crawl space, under the house. It's always cooler down there. Even with the 1000w light, I have to run the fans pretty low just to keep the temps in the mid 70's.


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 9, 2018)

Yup insulated ducts help but not much depending on how cold it gets.

Its fun trying to figure venting in a cold climate


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 9, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Yup insulated ducts help but not much depending on how cold it gets.
> 
> Its fun trying to figure venting in a cold climate


I have this room sealed off, so it's always nice and cozy in there, even with the chilly duct. I do have an insulated sleeve that I had on the exhaust duct, but it never got warmer than room temp, so I took it off. Freed up a little headroom.


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 9, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Yup insulated ducts help but not much depending on how cold it gets.
> 
> Its fun trying to figure venting in a cold climate


Yeah, I was mentioning this as a good thing. Having that chilly duct over by the ballasts, and inside the tent, helps cool the room, so I can run the fans on low.


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 9, 2018)

No, i agree as i do the same thing with my shed op i draw air from its "crawlspace" as the shaded ground maintains about 55to 60 in the summer

But the condensation drips is what was refering to .... its sucks when you dont want drips anywhere in cold climates we gota deal with that crap lol


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 10, 2018)

How I mounted an oscillating fan in my tent. It's also easily movable on the pole.


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 11, 2018)

If you use insulated HRV ducting it will not condensate if sealed properly, it needs to have a vapour barrier in the inside and outside and both barriers sealed. -30 here and no condensation .


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 11, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> If you use insulated HRV ducting it will not condensate if sealed properly, it needs to have a vapour barrier in the inside and outside and both barriers sealed. -30 here and no condensation .


I mounted one of my fans to where it's blowing down on the duct, to get some of that cool, humid air down to the plants. Its working really well, and the duct is completely dry!

 


My Girl Scout Crack and Gorilla Cookies caught up to the White Widows! All of them have been topped now.


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 12, 2018)

I really like how robust these White Widows are, but they're proving tricky to keep up with! They grow so short, dense, and bushy! Granted, I'm using a metal halide right now, but I'm wondering if I should switch to my HPS, so they stretch a little. Regardless, I've got to do some trimming today. The huge leaves are covering up all of the new growth below!


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 12, 2018)

Going to be beast mode


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 12, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Going to be beast mode


No doubt!


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 12, 2018)

I just got this IR thermometer, for $16! How the hell have I gone this long without one of these! I think I assumed they were expensive. 

 

Now I want a hand-held FLIR thermometer! But those ARE a little pricey


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 12, 2018)

Im going to buy one for other projects but i need it to hit at least 2000 degrees  ideally it would go up to aroun 2500 though for what i want


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 12, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Im going to buy one for other projects but i need it to hit at least 2000 degrees  ideally it would go up to aroun 2500 though for what i want


Are you blowing glass?


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 12, 2018)

Nah melting steel lol hobbies right


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 12, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Nah melting steel lol hobbies right


Cool! I wish I would've learned to weld and work with metals. Just as a hobby though. I grew up in Phoenix, and rails are real popular there, for romping around in the desert. I always wanted to build my own. Oh well, I must have found more interesting things to do LOL!


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 12, 2018)

Im smelting steel that i gather from iron ore in rocks 

Its DIRT cheap but a hard hobby to get into but you have to want to do it lol .

Basically making old school steel like in ye old swords ha ha


----------



## kingtitan (Mar 13, 2018)

Dude those things will explode. You don't notice when you stare at them for 2 hours a day lol

left side was *Day 1* of 12/12 and right side was *Day 5 *of 12/12. We are running some serious horsepower here!


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 13, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> I just got this IR thermometer, for $16! How the hell have I gone this long without one of these! I think I assumed they were expensive.
> 
> View attachment 4104701
> 
> Now I want a hand-held FLIR thermometer! But those ARE a little pricey


I have a hand held FLIR that I use for finding hot circuits and leaky ducts, prevented a couple of electrical fires. Probably helpful in a few of the grow rooms I’ve seen, some are a tad overloaded lol.


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 13, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> I have a hand held FLIR that I use for finding hot circuits and leaky ducts, prevented a couple of electrical fires. Probably helpful in a few of the grow rooms I’ve seen, some are a tad overloaded lol.


Or way over powerd!
I ran a 100 amp sub to my 8x12 lol

But to be fair half is for my futur work shop lol


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 13, 2018)

kingtitan said:


> Dude those things will explode. You don't notice when you stare at them for 2 hours a day lol
> 
> left side was *Day 1* of 12/12 and right side was *Day 5 *of 12/12. We are running some serious horsepower here!
> View attachment 4104799


Damn, dude!!!


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 13, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> I have a hand held FLIR that I use for finding hot circuits and leaky ducts, prevented a couple of electrical fires. Probably helpful in a few of the grow rooms I’ve seen, some are a tad overloaded lol.


No doubt. I get visions of a dozen Christmas light strands plugged into a single outlet! There are some pretty smart people here, but you know there are some, way on the other side of the spectrum, that are a spark away from burning their house down


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 13, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Or way over powerd!
> I ran a 100 amp sub to my 8x12 lol
> 
> But to be fair half is for my futur work shop lol


I’ve got one, just haven’t done the wiring yet, it’s 60’ if crawl space to the end of house where shed is . Soon, very soon lol.


----------



## mytwhyt (Mar 13, 2018)

C$,
This ones for you.. I figure this threads has gone so far OT, another jog to the left won't matter..
You'll find ton of good casting info on this site.. Here's Rasper's thread on diy high temp pyrometers...
http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/showthread.php?9329-Getting-accurate-reads-from-a-pyrometer
This is the best diy metal casting forum on the net.. You'l find all skill levels, some are mastercraftsmen, in their metals of their choice..
Now about that DO, where did we wind up there? I think what was decided was, if a fish can thrive in it, so can a pot plant... Well that's good enough for me..


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 13, 2018)

mytwhyt said:


> C$,
> This ones for you.. I figure this threads has gone so far OT, another jog to the left won't matter..
> You'll find ton of good casting info on this site.. Here's Rasper's thread on diy high temp pyrometers...
> http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/showthread.php?9329-Getting-accurate-reads-from-a-pyrometer
> ...


Even air breathing ones lol. Pretty sure that’s not the conclusion but may have missed that lol.


----------



## kingtitan (Mar 13, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> Even air breathing ones lol. Pretty sure that’s not the conclusion but may have missed that lol.


I cannot recall the thread or even if it was this forum but a guy did a complete test with a DO meter with every method (airstone,venturi, waterfall etc.) and it came out that the simple waterfall made the most DO.


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 13, 2018)

kingtitan said:


> I cannot recall the thread or even if it was this forum but a guy did a complete test with a DO meter with every method (airstone,venturi, waterfall etc.) and it came out that the simple waterfall made the most DO.


@Cold$moke posted a copy of it in one of his threads. It concluded that there is a maximum amount of DO a plant can take in.

A simple waterfall isn't all that simple though. You have to make sure you have a powerful enough pump to get DO to the center of all the roots in your totes. Powerful pumps create heat problems with the water, so you have to get a handle on water temps, because you want the water between 66 and 68 degrees.

Using an air pump and stones allows you to get the same amount if DO to the roots, equally in every container. With a powerful enough pump, that is. These create heat as well. Downside is that you now have two pumps running.


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 13, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> @Cold$moke posted a copy of it in one of his threads. It concluded that there is a maximum amount of DO a plant can take in.
> 
> A simple waterfall isn't all that simple though. You have to make sure you have a powerful enough pump to get DO to the center of all the roots in your totes. Powerful pumps create heat problems with the water, so you have to get a handle on water temps, because you want the water between 66 and 68 degrees.
> 
> Using an air pump and stones allows you to get the same amount if DO to the roots, equally in every container. With a powerful enough pump, that is. These create heat as well. Downside is that you now have two pumps running.


Forgot to mention that the plants take in less DO as temps rise.


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 14, 2018)

kingtitan said:


> I cannot recall the thread or even if it was this forum but a guy did a complete test with a DO meter with every method (airstone,venturi, waterfall etc.) and it came out that the simple waterfall made the most DO.


Yes, I saw that. I got away from stones as I felt it was screwing up my ph


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 14, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Forgot to mention that the plants take in less DO as temps rise.


Not quite the water can only hold so much DO 
At any given temp. Close though 

But the difference between 67 degrees and 75 degrees isnt enough for me to worry about


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 14, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Forgot to mention that the plants take in less DO as temps rise.


Well it’s more there is less to take in I think (lower temps hold more DO) as well as easier for bad shit to take hold. I have had zero issues with using only a water pump but the key to that is a chiller. My thinking is, to get the most out of a flooded system the water should be chilled.


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 14, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> @Cold$moke posted a copy of it in one of his threads. It concluded that there is a maximum amount of DO a plant can take in.
> 
> A simple waterfall isn't all that simple though. You have to make sure you have a powerful enough pump to get DO to the center of all the roots in your totes. Powerful pumps create heat problems with the water, so you have to get a handle on water temps, because you want the water between 66 and 68 degrees.
> 
> Using an air pump and stones allows you to get the same amount if DO to the roots, equally in every container. With a powerful enough pump, that is. These create heat as well. Downside is that you now have two pumps running.


Ill dig around and find the post 

Its not so much that the plant cannot take in excess DO

Its that water can only hold so much at a given temp 
Like when you boil watet you see the oxegeb escaping in the bubbles that form before it boils


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 14, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Not quite the water can only hold so much DO
> At any given temp. Close though
> 
> But the difference between 67 degrees and 75 degrees isnt enough for me to worry about


It’s enough for me to worry about lol. My roots fall off if I run anything over 70ish for an extended time . Perhaps more air (re pump) would keep it in check but I refuse to run one, I had nothing but issues with them .


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 14, 2018)

But the difference in DO @67 and @75 isnt enough for me to worry about

Most people have flow problems this causes the rot which gets blamed on many things.
And many things can cause the rot


I myself am doing a single plant with no light proofing and high water temps 76 ish
With hydrogaurd its doing fine

Next run im going to cut the hydrogaurd to see what the cut off is fir my setup and environment


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 14, 2018)

I wouldnt think lack of air is the problem
Look up kratkymethod of hydroponics


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 14, 2018)

mytwhyt said:


> C$,
> This ones for you.. I figure this threads has gone so far OT, another jog to the left won't matter..
> You'll find ton of good casting info on this site.. Here's Rasper's thread on diy high temp pyrometers...
> http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/showthread.php?9329-Getting-accurate-reads-from-a-pyrometer
> ...


Ha ha thanks bud 

Im actually more into the metals for knives 
Yes im a knife junky 

Nothing looks like old japanese smelted steel unless you smelt it yourself lol

But i just dabble with it atm


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 14, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> But the difference in DO @67 and @75 isnt enough for me to worry about
> 
> Most people have flow problems this causes the rot which gets blamed on many things.
> And many things can cause the rot
> ...


I do love hydroguard and I’ve said a few times that it saved a run but without it I’m fucked and I can’t get it anymore, looking for a replacement but they all suck so far . That was what forced me to mechanically chill (cheap for me, refrigeration mechanic lol) and I gotta say it does keep things stable and no beanies. I do agree it’s not needed but IMO it does allow for a better grow when I keep res at 66-67. Also there is a fine line between enough and not enough DO .


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 14, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> It’s enough for me to worry about lol. My roots fall off if I run anything over 70ish for an extended time . Perhaps more air (re pump) would keep it in check but I refuse to run one, I had nothing but issues with them .


In your case since you dont have access to stuff like hydroguard i would chill or find a new type of system as well


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 14, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> I do love hydroguard and I’ve said a few times that it saved a run but without it I’m fucked and I can’t get it anymore, looking for a replacement but they all suck so far . That was what forced me to mechanically chill (cheap for me, refrigeration mechanic lol) and I gotta say it does keep things stable and no beanies. I do agree it’s not needed but IMO it does allow for a better grow when I keep res at 66-67. Also there is a fine line between enough and not enough DO .


Its not like i wouldnt rather my water stay at 68 i would but im not going to chill

When i get my new system running mabey ill have this figured out for ya


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 14, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> But the difference in DO @67 and @75 isnt enough for me to worry about
> 
> Most people have flow problems this causes the rot which gets blamed on many things.
> And many things can cause the rot
> ...


I’ll be watching that one, I was chilling and using HG when I had the root issues (ones in 5 years) so I’m not sure which one or both saved the girls from imminent death lol


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 14, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> In your case since you dont have access to stuff like hydroguard i would chill or find a new type of system as well


Ya I was thinking new system like DTW but back to the same for this run lol. To lazy to get the pails set up lol.


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 14, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Its not like i wouldnt rather my water stay at 68 i would but im not going to chill
> 
> When i get my new system running mabey ill have this figured out for ya


You have permafrost there right lol. My glycol loop does chilling for 8 months a year and draws 160 watts when on . But yup I hear you about a new setup .


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 14, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> You have permafrost there right lol. My glycol loop does chilling for 8 months a year and draws 160 watts when on . But yup I hear you about a new setup .


Ha ha i know i remember askin you about it
Im too lazy to dig a big hole lol

But for 9 months of the year i could use it just running under my shed. 

But i want to simplify things now ....if dirt werent so dirty id switch to organics but i just love hydro too much to leave it for dirt yet. So much cleaner and more pest free


----------



## PetFlora (Mar 14, 2018)

My recent twist on an old technique is LPA using high pressure mist heads. 

The pump is on a deep cycle timer:currently running 2 minutes on/15 minutes off. I would prefer 1 minute on and a shorter mist cycle (~10 minutes), but, it takes a bit for my 260 gph pump to get a nice spray. I have thought about a larger volume lp pump, but have not yet pulled the trigger

This to replace my long standing DIY bubbler, which works great, BUT, I need longer roots for when I transfer into my grow totes. I suppose I could use a deeper bubble tote, but that means even more nutes

So far, I am very pleased

hth


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 14, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Ha ha i know i remember askin you about it
> Im too lazy to dig a big hole lol
> 
> But for 9 months of the year i could use it just running under my shed.
> ...


Fuck I forget who I reply to here lol, get confused a lot . Yup I switched to hydro to get rid of gnats lol


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 14, 2018)

Now that I can take accurate readings of my water, I see that I'm hovering between 70 and 71. I've been adding frozen water jugs here and there, to bring it down to 68. It's a temporary solution. It's easy, and I've got lots of room in my freezer for jugs.

I'm going to get a chiller, when I can afford it. I figured out how I can have the chiller in the grow room, without effecting temps. I'm going to keep it in a cabinet in the corner. I'm going to have a hole in the floor, and 4" duct + fan going up to the ceiling, exhausting into the attic. I'm basically isolating it from the room. I don't even think I'll have to insulate the cabinet because the fan should be able to provide enough flow to keep everything cool.


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 14, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> My recent twist on an old technique is LPA using high pressure mist heads.
> 
> The pump is on a deep cycle timer:currently running 2 minutes on/15 minutes off. I would prefer 1 minute on and a shorter mist cycle (~10 minutes), but, it takes a bit for my 260 gph pump to get a nice spray. I have thought about a larger volume lp pump, but have not yet pulled the trigger
> 
> ...


Sprayers are GREAT for cloners 

Through exp i will NOT use them for anything else . I HATE clogged spray heads


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 14, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Now that I can take accurate readings of my water, I see that I'm hovering between 70 and 71. I've been adding frozen water jugs here and there, to bring it down to 68. It's a temporary solution. It's easy, and I've got lots of room in my freezer for jugs.
> 
> I'm going to get a chiller, when I can afford it. I figured out how I can have the chiller in the grow room, without effecting temps. I'm going to keep it in a cabinet in the corner. I'm going to have a hole in the floor, and 4" duct + fan going up to the ceiling, exhausting into the attic. I'm basically isolating it from the room. I don't even think I'll have to insulate the cabinet because the fan should be able to provide enough flow to keep everything cool.


This is what led me to think about other systems

I was like no way im going to run a whole bunch of extra gear just so i can grow a plant lol

Then i think well what is major AGRI using?
Its not rdwc lol

This next run when i cut out the hydrogaurd im going to see if the high temps hurt me .

But i refuse to PAY to keep things cold when i live close to an arctic climate (snowing out today )


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 14, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> This is what led me to think about other systems
> 
> I was like no way im going to run a whole bunch of extra gear just so i can grow a plant lol
> 
> ...


You definitely have more options to use nature for most of the year. I'm contemplating doing a coco grow after harvest. It'll be summer, and I'm not going to be able to afford a chiller yet. It's so easy to take the totes out. I can even cap of the reservoir bulkhead, and use the pump and res to water the plants each day.


----------



## PetFlora (Mar 15, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Sprayers are GREAT for cloners
> 
> Through exp i will NOT use them for anything else . I HATE clogged spray heads


If you are using corase salts that is a likely problem. This can be resolved by dissolving them in warm water, the diluting

Here are my roots some 2 weeks from seed. No clogging issues here


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 15, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> If you are using corase salts that is a likely problem. This can be resolved by dissolving them in warm water, the diluting
> 
> Here are my roots some 2 weeks from seed. No clogging issues here


No i meant EVENTUALLY they will clog .

Ive used sprayers with many differnt nutreint lines .

Theres not many out there that wont clog a sprayer after 2 plus months in my experience 

Again for a veg unit and cloner they are fine .

But i will not flower with them


----------



## PetFlora (Mar 15, 2018)

Now you've challenged me to keep one in this set up. My thought is you were using the 'wrong' mist heads


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 15, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> Now you've challenged me to keep one in this set up. My thought is you were using the 'wrong' mist heads


No challenge i was using ez clone sprayers not hp spay heads like you are.

Go for it if you like but i have had them fail me and will not trust them when there are more simpler setups .

They are fun to play with in a mad scientist kinda way though 

You can grow to bud just fine

but when you grow them for long periods like i do it doesnt make much sense especially after failures .

You know fool me twice


----------



## PetFlora (Mar 15, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> No challenge i was using ez clone sprayers not hp spay heads like you are.
> 
> Go for it if you like but i have had them fail me and will not trust them when there are more simpler setups .
> 
> ...


I get you. No, you did not challenge me, but color me curious. Now, when I was doing hpa way back in 2010ish, I had clogging issues, but that was due to my ignorance regarding mixing organic supplements, which clogged the screens. I added an in line filter, but still had the problem. Switching from microbes .to enzymes and aminos should solve that issue

Time will tell


----------



## kingtitan (Mar 15, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> In your case since you dont have access to stuff like hydroguard i would chill or find a new type of system as well


I am in the same boat with microbes hard to find with all the bans. Brew your own tea, working well for me.


----------



## kingtitan (Mar 15, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Now that I can take accurate readings of my water, I see that I'm hovering between 70 and 71. I've been adding frozen water jugs here and there, to bring it down to 68. It's a temporary solution. It's easy, and I've got lots of room in my freezer for jugs.
> 
> I'm going to get a chiller, when I can afford it. I figured out how I can have the chiller in the grow room, without effecting temps. I'm going to keep it in a cabinet in the corner. I'm going to have a hole in the floor, and 4" duct + fan going up to the ceiling, exhausting into the attic. I'm basically isolating it from the room. I don't even think I'll have to insulate the cabinet because the fan should be able to provide enough flow to keep everything cool.


Maybe after my cycle is done I can lure you to the world of microbes


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 15, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> You know fool me twice


Yep, I know that one.
"Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, won't get fooled again!"
-George W. bush


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 15, 2018)

I pruned and trimmed these last night because they got so bushy, so quickly. Today, they have almost filled themselves out again. I may alternate between RDWC and coco, so I can have a mellow grow once in a while . DWC takes a lot of attention, even with a stable system.


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 15, 2018)

kingtitan said:


> I am in the same boat with microbes hard to find with all the bans. Brew your own tea, working well for me.


I had a problem because i switched from a semi organic nutrient to a straight salt based.

So i added hydrogaurd im my res is constantly between 68-77 depending on the time of day 

Everything is ok so far with white white roots 

Except for last night i found out one of the bagseed plants was a TRANNY. Lol

I cut her dick off and gave the extra room to the real girls lol


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 17, 2018)

Big bushes aren't just for hippies


----------



## Airwalker16 (Mar 18, 2018)

We’re you just not wanting to use uni seals?


JSB99 said:


> Square buckets are more convenient, but round ones will still work.
> 
> If you're set on square buckets and don't mind the cost, you can get 8 and 13 gallon buckets and lids from *here*
> 
> ...


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 18, 2018)

Airwalker16 said:


> We’re you just not wanting to use uni seals?


Yeah, I was trying to keep costs down. Ultimately, I ended up getting bulkheads because the diy bulkheads just didn't work well enough. I was getting a drip here and there, and further tightening caused further problems. 

The bulkheads work great and I should've just gotten them in the first place. They really weren't all that much.


----------



## rkymtnman (Mar 18, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> The bulkheads work great and I should've just gotten them in the first place. They really weren't all that much.


yep. some people try to cheap out and end up joining the Flood Club. knock on wood, i'm still on the waiting list. 

i used shower drains as my version of bulkheads. get the cool metal screen to keep out hydroton too. same price.


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 19, 2018)

Sprayers clog, I hate the things lol. Also if running in warm rooms the root chamber turns into a root killing field as it gets really hot when not spraying, well it did for me lol. Only time I had rot was running low pressure aero . I’ve got a bunch of nozzles if any one wants them lol. And yup -9 here C$, went ice fishing yesterday, well actually set a line and watched from the living room lol.


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## PetFlora (Mar 19, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> Sprayers clog, I hate the things lol. Also if running in warm rooms the root chamber turns into a root killing field as it gets really hot when not spraying, well it did for me lol. Only time I had rot was running low pressure aero . I’ve got a bunch of nozzles if any one wants them lol. And yup -9 here C$, went ice fishing yesterday, well actually set a line and watched from the living room lol.



I should have wrapped the top from the beginning. It reflects most of the heat, keeping the rez comfortable. Also, I raised the ~ 300w Amre almost 12" (now > 2 ft), which reduced the heat hitting the tote and plants. This aso helped to maintain 59% humidity


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## JSB99 (Mar 19, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> I should have wrapped the top from the beginning. It reflects most of the heat, keeping the rez comfortable. Also, I raised the ~ 300w Amre almost 12" (now > 2 ft), which reduced the heat hitting the tote and plants. This aso helped to maintain 59% humidity


How warm are you keeping the clones? They're really comfortable at around 81f.


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## PetFlora (Mar 19, 2018)

I agree, but not growing clones. I might as I am familiar with her quality, which most love

Keeping temp < 85 _was_ an issue, then it dawned on me to raise the light: problem solved


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 19, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> I agree, but not growing clones. I might as I am familiar with her quality, which most love
> 
> Keeping temp < 85 _was_ an issue, then it dawned on me to raise the light: problem solved


Right on!


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 19, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> I should have wrapped the top from the beginning. It reflects most of the heat, keeping the rez comfortable. Also, I raised the ~ 300w Amre almost 12" (now > 2 ft), which reduced the heat hitting the tote and plants. This aso helped to maintain 59% humidity


I use insultated tops but my 1000 Watts was raising temps also I have not seen any benefit from running spray heads compared to FD and EF or any other setup but lots of drawbacks .


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## Airwalker16 (Mar 19, 2018)

Right on. Yeah uniseals are like $40 for a 10pack of 2". And I'lol need 14 with what I plan on doing. But I feel the uniseal method will make things a lot easier to do.


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## PetFlora (Mar 19, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> I use insultated tops but my 1000 Watts was raising temps also I have not seen any benefit from running spray heads compared to FD and EF or any other setup but lots of drawbacks .


Are you saying you start seedlings and clones in f & d?


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## Budley Doright (Mar 19, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> Are you saying you start seedlings and clones in f & d?


I start seedlings yes, got some just popping now, but nope not cuttings, I use cubes and dome as I have great success with that.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 19, 2018)

Airwalker16 said:


> Right on. Yeah uniseals are like $40 for a 10pack of 2". And I'lol need 14 with what I plan on doing. But I feel the uniseal method will make things a lot easier to do.


Someone else mentioned shower drain fittings which I use and they work really well but still more pricey than uniseals . I was also looking at 2”-3” fittings for a recirc and as much as I hate uniseals I may try them. I have square pails so that helps with leaks as well. Shit gets pricey when your looking at 8-10 pails . I may cut that to 6 if I switch and add on as needed. What are your guys thoughts re bigger is better for return lines? I have lots of different sizes of PVC. I’m thinking 3” but do have 2”-4” as well.


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## Cold$moke (Mar 19, 2018)

If they are trully flat walled buckets mech bulkheads work like a top.

But most buckets have an angle to them even thought the face might be flat this needs to be accounted for if your gluing up the system which i recommend 

But if they are angled and you glue it straight you can get a leaks (ask how i know lol)

Rubber uniseals are more picky about hole size and can "weep" hut will stop with salt build up .

But i did see someone do a cool trick with uni seals was to turn them on the inside of the bucket makes sense to me and im going to try it


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## Cold$moke (Mar 19, 2018)

Make a bucket drilling jig and all your buckets holes will be perfect 

Uniseals or bulk heads are the best option . 
Because its what they where desinged to do


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## Budley Doright (Mar 19, 2018)

Actually I lucked out and they are perfectly square but we’re not sure about uv protection , they are donut filling pails I got from Tim Hortons lol. Given the cost of 3” bulkheads I will probably get uniseals . I do a lot of boat work and bulkheads are my go to fitting .
Edit: I’m waffling in the recirc thing, seems like a lot of work to get what I basically have now lol.


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## JSB99 (Mar 20, 2018)

I'm having to trim every day, right now! I always forget about the up keep after the third week. I had a ton of leaves to clip or remove! Some days I'm in there for an hour or so, just pruning. I've tossed the idea of growing just two, or even one, around in my head. Probably be a lot easier to maintain, but it'd probably take forever in veg to fill up the space with a single plant. I could also ditch the tent, and do a room grow. The room is fairly sealed, and is blacked out when lights are out. That would give me so much room to work on them! I'd have to think of the downsides, like not getting reflection around the sides, from where the tent's mylar is. I'm running a 1k though, and I'm getting above 35k lumens around the sides.

 

 

I love my oscillating fan! I can move so much air though the plants without giving them windburn!


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## Budley Doright (Mar 20, 2018)

It’s gonna get real busy in there if you don’t flip soon lol


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## JSB99 (Mar 20, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> It’s gonna get real busy in there if you don’t flip soon lol


Yeah, I'm flipping tonight LOL!


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## JSB99 (Mar 21, 2018)

Day one of flower. Supercroped the one in the back that was outgrowing the other three. I'll supercrop a few times more as the weeks go on. I'll put my net back up soon. I'm not going to scrog. The net is to hold the colas up when they get big. I have topped them all to grow them in manifolds, so I'll have several tops.

This picture was taken with my cell, with the HPS on, but you'll notice that the color isn't washed in yellow. I use Photoshop Express to edit, and the built-in auto-correct fixes it perfectly! It's free to use!


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## JSB99 (Mar 21, 2018)

*How I weigh my branches down:*

No complex tutorial here, just showing an easy way to weigh down your branches when you've supercroped, or doing LST. This works really well when you don't have a place to tie down your branches. Just tie a string around the branch and hang clothespins.


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## JSB99 (Mar 23, 2018)

Anyone got a lawnmower I can borrow LOL! I just trimmed these yesterday...and the day before...and the day before...

 


Noobs, you'll notice I've got four fans going in this small space. Circulation is crucial, and is much more important than many new growers realize. Right now my plants are growing too aggressively to clear out all the leaves, and let the air flow through them. If I trim too much at once, I could shock them and delay growth, or even turn them hermie. So I trim some each day and fluff up the leaves so they aren't sitting on top of each other, creating condensation between the leaves. I have to create a lot of circulation to get air to the center of the plants through the bushy leaves, without having the fans blow directly on them too much to cause windburn. All the fans are offset to the plants. The plants get wind bounced off the walls, other objects, and the wind created by the oscillating fan. The oscillating fan works great because it does allow some direct wind from the stationary fans. The oscillating fan disrupts the constant direct wind every few seconds


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 23, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> No, i agree as i do the same thing with my shed op i draw air from its "crawlspace" as the shaded ground maintains about 55to 60 in the summer
> 
> But the condensation drips is what was refering to .... its sucks when you dont want drips anywhere in cold climates we gota deal with that crap lol





Budley Doright said:


> If you use insulated HRV ducting it will not condensate if sealed properly, it needs to have a vapour barrier in the inside and outside and both barriers sealed. -30 here and no condensation .


So I've gotten to the point where I don't want the extra humidity, and it's starting to drip on my plants, as expected 

I've got a duct sleeve that I can put on there. The insulation is open in the middle, so I was thinking I could use 3mil poly sheeting and ziptie it onto the flexible duct, before adding the sleeve.

You guys think that'd work well enough?


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 23, 2018)

As long as you can isolate the cold pipe from humid air and insulate it it will be fine.

But that is EASIER. Said then done

Let me find uour duct shot and see what i can come up with..

How severe is the wetness on the pipe like beer can wet?


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 23, 2018)

Yes it will C$ is right. Like I said I use insulated flex and never have issues, it’s 1.5” of batt sandwiched in plastic on both sides


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 23, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> As long as you can isolate the cold pipe from humid air and insulate it it will be fine.
> 
> But that is EASIER. Said then done
> 
> ...


Yeah, beer can wet. If I budge the duct, it starts raining LOL!


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 23, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> Yes it will C$ is right. Like I said I use insulated flex and never have issues, it’s 1.5” of batt sandwiched in plastic on both sides


The one I have, the inside isn't covered. But I was thinking I could wrap the duct with black poly sheeting, then slip the sleeve over it.


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 23, 2018)

So is it the whole duct or just the section in the tent?

Ha ha this was my 5000th message lmao


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## JSB99 (Mar 23, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> So is it the whole duct or just the section in the tent?


The whole duct, but much more inside the tent.


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## Cold$moke (Mar 23, 2018)

I thought to myself remember dead airspace is a better insulator then anything else

I dont cool my hoods anymore
So my intake can come up from the floor it condensates but doesn't hurt anything (waterproof)

Your poly then insulation idea isnt bad and i would try it before using any of my crazy ideas


This might be a little messy as i havent tested it.

But if that doesnt work take your small chunk of 6 inch preferably outside or on a piece of plastic so you dont make a big mess

Then get a chunk of 8 inch duct and figure out a way to cap the end like using a 8to 6inch reducer.
Tape it like a mofo!

Then fill the inner cavity with a can of the cheapest spray foam you can find let the end dry and cut off the excess now you have an AIR SEALED insulated ducting .

Now my only concern with this is flexibility

Youll definitely loose some flex and like i say i have boarderline retard ideas 

But it turns out im going to be redoing my ducting this summer as well as venting through the wall presents its own problems in cold climate lol namley ice burgs


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 23, 2018)

$39 Canadian for 25’ so half that for you lucky bastards lol. As for going through wall if you seal between this and hole with low expansion foam you’ll never have an issue. We do HRV’s in a regular basis and they never condense unless you break the seal of inner or outer skin, yup dead air space .
Edit: fixed typo 25’  Just finished after work fatty, been a long week


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## Budley Doright (Mar 23, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> So is it the whole duct or just the section in the tent?
> 
> Ha ha this was my 5000th message lmao


So you having a party . At least a celebratory fat one .


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 23, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Anyone got a lawnmower I can borrow LOL! I just trimmed these yesterday...and the day before...and the day before...
> 
> View attachment 4110640
> 
> ...


Another reason to have a lot of circulation is because bugs don't like wind and rustling leaves, so it helps with things like mites.


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## JSB99 (Mar 23, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> View attachment 4110826 $39 Canadian for 25’ so half that for you lucky bastards lol. As for going through wall if you seal between this and hole with low expansion foam you’ll never have an issue. We do HRV’s in a regular basis and they never condense unless you break the seal of inner or outer skin, yup dead air space .
> Edit: fixed typo 25’  Just finished after work fatty, been a long week


Yeah, I'm going to get one of these. I rigged something temporary. I was out of black poly sheeting, so I wrapped garbage bags and secured them with zip ties. Then I put the sleeve over it. Should work.


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## Cold$moke (Mar 24, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> View attachment 4110826 $39 Canadian for 25’ so half that for you lucky bastards lol. As for going through wall if you seal between this and hole with low expansion foam you’ll never have an issue. We do HRV’s in a regular basis and they never condense unless you break the seal of inner or outer skin, yup dead air space .
> Edit: fixed typo 25’  Just finished after work fatty, been a long week


Just be carful this stuff has failed me before thays why i choose to rig up my own insulated ducts.

And i did a bang up job trying to air seal it 

I think it was just pin holes from manufacturing


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## Cold$moke (Mar 24, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Yeah, I'm going to get one of these. I rigged something temporary. I was out of black poly sheeting, so I wrapped garbage bags and secured them with zip ties. Then I put the sleeve over it. Should work.
> 
> View attachment 4110886 View attachment 4110887


Looks good man should work fine as long as its sealed good .

I have to remember you only have cold air going through it not hot moist air going out side


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## Budley Doright (Mar 24, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Just be carful this stuff has failed me before thays why i choose to rig up my own insulated ducts.
> 
> And i did a bang up job trying to air seal it
> 
> I think it was just pin holes from manufacturing


The only time I’ve seen it fill with water is yes if there is a tear. We use imperial typically and it’s always worked well. You also need to tape the inner plastic then tape the outer to seal the inside


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## Budley Doright (Mar 24, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Looks good man should work fine as long as its sealed good .
> 
> I have to remember you only have cold air going through it not hot moist air going out side


My exhaust outlet is hidden from veiw as it can be a giant ice water fall lol. Looks a tad suspicious for a unused garden shed lol. Well to me it does, probably not to anyone else. Paranoia will destroy ya I guess lol.


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## PetFlora (Mar 24, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Another reason to have a lot of circulation is because bugs don't like wind and rustling leaves, so it helps with things like mites.


Are you adding silica? bugs don't like the taste


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## JSB99 (Mar 24, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> Are you adding silica? bugs don't like the taste


No, no silica. I've never actually used it.


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## PetFlora (Mar 24, 2018)

Silica makes stalks and branches sturdier, which makes them undesirable to bugs sucking on them


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## Budley Doright (Mar 24, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> No, no silica. I've never actually used it.


Ya I’ve never seen a difference using it but Only did one run. It does work as a ph down I hear but not in my water lol.


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## Cold$moke (Mar 24, 2018)

Any drips today?


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## JSB99 (Mar 24, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Any drips today?


Nope, everything's good  It's a good thing, because today is extra chilly and foggy!


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## JSB99 (Mar 24, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Any drips today?


I had to work to get the duct sleeve through the porthole though. How flexible is the insulated duct you use?


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 24, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> I had to work to get the duct sleeve through the porthole though. How flexible is the insulated duct you use?


The one i came up with the spray foam i have no idea as i didnt try it yet 

I imagine it would be stiff till you forced it into a shape the foam may crack on the inside but its purpose is just to keep the inner duct centered
Tape and silicone would airseal the ends when you attach it (all theoretical of coures)

And i basically have banished flex pipe from my lands lol

I only hard pipe now and i use rigid board around it then i foam and caulk everything 

Cause i dont need air cooled hoods anymore
But i understand you have no choice. Cause you need that adjustable height for your hood

I think you did a good job ,ive never seen you really hack anything yet 
And i would have done the same.

The spray foam idea is just an idea but would probably be the next step if the first idea failed
If it was me


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## Budley Doright (Mar 24, 2018)

Or you can slide the insulated flex over the ridged pipe, we do that for longer than 10’ runs to cut down on friction loss


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 27, 2018)

The Girl Scout Crack in the back-left is still trying to outgrow the others. I've already supercroped her pretty good, but she still stands a little tall. So instead of messing with her anymore, I slid the tent poles the light is hanging from, forward and to the right, so that more light is concentrated over the shorter plants. The tall one still gets plenty of light though. Normally I'd grow all the same strain so that they're level with each other. They are all between 70,000 and 85,000 lumens at the canopies.

 

 

A while ago I added extra poles to the tent ceiling so that I had extra hanging points. This also makes the tent and frame much more sturdy. It's easy to add them. Just use PVC pipe, drill holes in the ends, and use zip ties to secure them to the existing frame.


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 27, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> Or you can slide the insulated flex over the ridged pipe, we do that for longer than 10’ runs to cut down on friction loss


Sleeve is working great! No leaks or indication of moisture developing underneath! I'm still going to get the insulation you mentioned eventually though.


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 27, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> The one i came up with the spray foam i have no idea as i didnt try it yet
> 
> I imagine it would be stiff till you forced it into a shape the foam may crack on the inside but its purpose is just to keep the inner duct centered
> Tape and silicone would airseal the ends when you attach it (all theoretical of coures)
> ...


I'm thinking of using rigid pipe going from the floor to the tent intake, as well as from the exhaust fan to the ceiling. I've kicked the intake duct a few times, and poked a couple holes in it while trimming. The rigid pipe will really help with that. I imagine it'd be a little more quiet and efficient, given that the ridges around flexible duct causes turbulence.


----------



## Cold$moke (Mar 27, 2018)

Agreed flex has its place but if at all i will opt for rigid or pvc .

Just dont get shocked on the pvc one with static lol or ground it


----------



## SSGrower (Mar 27, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> I'm thinking of using rigid pipe going from the floor to the tent intake, as well as from the exhaust fan to the ceiling. I've kicked the intake duct a few times, and poked a couple holes in it while trimming. The rigid pipe will really help with that. I imagine it'd be a little more quiet and efficient, given that the ridges around flexible duct causes turbulence.


The smooth inner surface makes a real difference when talking runs of 15 ft or more, also on the negative pressure side you loose diameter with flex, use long radius elbows to reduce friction loss.


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 28, 2018)

SSGrower said:


> The smooth inner surface makes a real difference when talking runs of 15 ft or more, also on the negative pressure side you loose diameter with flex, use long radius elbows to reduce friction loss.


Do you know what the friction loss is for 6” flex versus ridgid at 15’?


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 28, 2018)

SSGrower said:


> The smooth inner surface makes a real difference when talking runs of 15 ft or more, also on the negative pressure side you loose diameter with flex, use long radius elbows to reduce friction loss.


Do you use rigid aluminum pipes, or PVC?


----------



## PetFlora (Mar 28, 2018)

IMHO, you only need DO during the feeding cycle, AND roots benefit from a pause cycle

Enter my new technique: low pressure aero in shallow water (just enough to cover the lp pump). Great news for this technique is _bottom uptake pumps _are readily available AND reasonable, plus, they would cut the nutrient use in half. Im running ~ 3 minutes on and 30-60 minutes off. This depends on how many plants, mist heads...

anyway, it broke my heart, but I had to pull 2 males yesterday, They were pretty big for being less than a month old from seed

So far, 2/4 left have pistils, the other 2 likely females considering they haven't sexed yet, but they are all small, and the 2 that haven't sexed yet, smaller still; none of them were getting adequate misting, so they're stunted. 

This is first my attempt. Adjusting on the fly. I now have a new mist head/PVC design, and am using a side feed pump. Now that I think of it, because the bottom draw pump only needs ~ 1/2 the solution than that of the side feed pump, which also requires more nutes for headroom. Another revelation: this also means fewer blue ice pack rotations each day and easier to maintain stable temps. I'll be switching that pump out tomorrow!

Pic of biggest plant after I moved it outside and roughly 1/2 section of the roots

plus roots under the hood, and a shot of whats left

hth


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 28, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> IMHO, you only need DO during the feeding cycle, AND roots benefit from a pause cycle
> 
> Enter my new technique: low pressure aero in shallow water (just enough to cover the lp pump). Great news for this technique is _bottom uptake pumps _are readily available AND reasonable, plus, they would cut the nutrient use in half. Im running ~ 3 minutes on and 30-60 minutes off. This depends on how many plants, mist heads...
> 
> ...


Did you mean to post this in my thread? Seems a little off-topic.


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 28, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Did you mean to post this in my thread? Seems a little off-topic.


It’s like bringing your wedding pics to someone else’s wedding lol.


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## PetFlora (Mar 29, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Did you mean to post this in my thread? Seems a little off-topic.


It is about DO right? Did I take it too far by suggesting an alternative to DWC? where am I off topic?


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 29, 2018)

Seeings how he’s halfway through the grow it’s a bit irrelevant .... kind of lol. You really need to start a thread though, they r impressive roots but the plants don’t seem to be doing that well .


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## JSB99 (Mar 29, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> It is about DO right? Did I take it too far by suggesting an alternative to DWC? where am I off topic?


Nah, I just forgot what the original topic was LOL!




Budley Doright said:


> Seeings how he’s halfway through the grow it’s a bit irrelevant ....


More like halfway through my second grow LOL! I'm thinking of changing the title of the thread to something more relevant.


----------



## Mass Medicinals (Mar 29, 2018)

Looking great!! It's funny how everything you make in this thread looks way too easy to construct.

Btw, Is this the first or second grow since last November?


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 29, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Nah, I just forgot what the original topic was LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> More like halfway through my second grow LOL! I'm thinking of changing the title of the thread to something more relevant.


How time flies.


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 29, 2018)

Mass Medicinals said:


> Looking great!! It's funny how everything you make in this thread looks way too easy to construct.
> 
> Btw, Is this the first or second grow since last November?


Thanks 

This is my second grow. After this grow, I'm going to do a coco grow in my tent. Being summer, I don't want to fight the water temps. I'm not going to invest in a chiller. They're too pricey! After the summer grow I'll switch back to DWC.


----------



## SSGrower (Mar 29, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Do you use rigid aluminum pipes, or PVC?


I use flex in the garden for convenience and I have less than 6' of duct with a fan that even set on low is almost overkill. PVC might help or even resolve the condensation issue though.


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 30, 2018)

Time to level the canopy! She's already been supercroped once, but none of the others have. This was expected though. I'll probably have to keep working with her for a couple more weeks.

Before:
 
After:


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 30, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Time to level the canopy! She's already been supercroped once, but none of the others have. This was expected though. I'll probably have to keep working with her for a couple more weeks.
> 
> Before:
> View attachment 4114161
> ...


Looking real good . Starting to run out of room to train and tuck lol.


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## JSB99 (Mar 30, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> Looking real good . Starting to run out of room to train and tuck lol.


I'm not scrogging this time. I'll put the net up to support the colas, and I'll supercrop more if needed, but that's about it.


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 30, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> I'm not scrogging this time. I'll put the net up to support the colas, and I'll supercrop more if needed, but that's about it.


I tend to grow to many in one tote so I run out of room to even supercrop as it covers up another plant lol. I just can’t help myself ..... it’s a problem for me . I keep meaning to cull a couple then I can’t .


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 30, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> I tend to grow to many in one tote so I run out of room to even supercrop as it covers up another plant lol. I just can’t help myself ..... it’s a problem for me . I keep meaning to cull a couple then I can’t .


It can get pretty crowded for sure! I was contemplating doing a two plant grow to see how it does. I've got a 1k in there now, so I can hit everything in the tent.

I previously mentioned that I was going to do a coco grow after this harvest, so I'm not trying fight water temps this summer, in the DWC. I think what I'm going to do is get a single, large root bag, and just grow one big one. Ultimately I'll probably grow four most of the time, in the DWC. It's a good layout.


----------



## Budley Doright (Mar 30, 2018)

I’m not sure what I’m doing this summer but I doubt I’ll run indoors, just to much too deal with when I typically grow 10-15 outdoors.


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## JSB99 (Mar 30, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> I’m not sure what I’m doing this summer but I doubt I’ll run indoors, just to much too deal with when I typically grow 10-15 outdoors.


Yeah, that's a lot to keep up with! Probably big enough for a dedicated mini-split.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 30, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Yeah, that's a lot to keep up with! Probably big enough for a dedicated mini-split.


I could probably do it with what I have if I hooked a chilled water fan coil to the 10000 btu water unit I have running, but yes maybe. I have a 3 head 36000 that I am installing in the house and another 12000 ductless as well but I need to upgrade the power to the shed, it’s maxed now lol. Besides it’s free outside lol.


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## JSB99 (Apr 2, 2018)

The canopy's getting pretty thick!


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## Budley Doright (Apr 2, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> The canopy's getting pretty thick!
> 
> View attachment 4115676


Lol yes it is!


----------



## JSB99 (Apr 5, 2018)

Wall to wall carpeting


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 6, 2018)

I think I mentioned awhile back that it was gonna get real busy in there......it has lol. My very first hydro grow was White Russian and I was stuffing the plants back into the room to shut the door lol.


----------



## JSB99 (Apr 6, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> I think I mentioned awhile back that it was gonna get real busy in there......it has lol. My very first hydro grow was White Russian and I was stuffing the plants back into the room to shut the door lol.


Yeah, it has gotten a little crowded in there, but the plants are absolutely healthy looking, so they don't seem to be affected. I wasn't planning on doing a SOG, but it kind of turned out that way LOL! My worry is that I'm going to get condensation issues from leaves laying on top of each other. I rustle and fluff the leaves a couple times a day to help keep it under control. Another thing that's worrying me a bit is the humidity level. It's been hovering between 50% and 65%, depending on the rain outside. I'm in Oregon, and we get a lot of rain, so it's a battle. I have a small dehumidifier in the tent, but it doesn't have much of an impact. One of these days I have to get a real dehumidifier for the room. I've got a ton of circulation from the four fans in the tent, and the exhaust fan is pretty much on high, so that it's moving a lot of air through the inside.


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 6, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Yeah, it has gotten a little crowded in there, but the plants are absolutely healthy looking, so they don't seem to be affected. I wasn't planning on doing a SOG, but it kind of turned out that way LOL! My worry is that I'm going to get condensation issues from leaves laying on top of each other. I rustle and fluff the leaves a couple times a day to help keep it under control. Another thing that's worrying me a bit is the humidity level. It's been hovering between 50% and 65%, depending on the rain outside. I'm in Oregon, and we get a lot of rain, so it's a battle. I have a small dehumidifier in the tent, but it doesn't have much of an impact. One of these days I have to get a real dehumidifier for the room. I've got a ton of circulation from the four fans in the tent, and the exhaust fan is pretty much on high, so that it's moving a lot of air through the inside.


You should be fine re humidity if your moving the air well. I run around 60 and have never had an issue. And yup I rustle them as well lol. I do tend to get a bit of larf so like I said I keep thinking I’m going to cut down on numbers but don’t . Did you lollipop them, sorry I can’t remember.


----------



## JSB99 (Apr 6, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> You should be fine re humidity if your moving the air well. I run around 60 and have never had an issue. And yup I rustle them as well lol. I do tend to get a bit of larf so like I said I keep thinking I’m going to cut down on numbers but don’t . Did you lollipop them, sorry I can’t remember.


I didn't lollipop them, but I did top them, then fimmed those once those branches grew. This is the first time I haven't continuously trim. I'm really glad I got out of that, because it was getting so time consuming trying to keep up with their growth. I would trim them up good, then the very next day, everything would be completely filled back out again! It was like the fast growth and extensive trimming were cancelling each other out LOL!

I'm not too worried about some larf. I don't need to kill myself trying to squeeze every last bit of growth out of them in order to get enough to last. I'll have plenty. I'm not even going to save the leaves and branches. Hash is great, but it's a lot of work.

After watching my system closely over the last year, I'm to the point where I don't have to hover over everything. The water is so stable! I haven't had any pH swings, odors, or anything else! It's a good running machine  I only go in there a couple times a day, which is good, because the less I'm around the plants, the less chance of bringing any critters into the room.


----------



## Cold$moke (Apr 6, 2018)

Mmmmm hash.

Lol its a labor of love this is just my second time trying it this way...im sold but man it fucks with your tolerance levels lol


----------



## Cold$moke (Apr 6, 2018)

Looking good in there bud
Did you flip 12/12?

I would look at the stems and thin out the thin ones without a good ring around em 

But they are looking STRONG


----------



## JSB99 (Apr 6, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Looking good in there bud
> Did you flip 12/12?


Thx! 

Yeah, they're two weeks into flower. If got lots of bud sites starting to fill out. Smelling quite pleasant in there, but another few days and I'll probably have to hook up my scrubber.


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 6, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> View attachment 4117729 View attachment 4117730
> 
> Mmmmm hash.
> 
> Lol its a labor of love this is just my second time trying it this way...im sold but man it fucks with your tolerance levels lol


LOL just made a batch yesterday, takes me about 3 hrs from start to finish. Started making it about 20 years ago


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 6, 2018)

And JS if you get a drum humidifier and wrap the drum in silkscreen you can effortlessly make superb black hash with fluff buds .


----------



## Cold$moke (Apr 6, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> LOL just made a batch yesterday, takes me about 3 hrs from start to finish. Started making it about 20 years ago View attachment 4117860


Homade vac chamber? Nice muffin 

Ive only done qwet runs

As butane runs scare me lol

I made a huge oxygen acetylene bomb when i was a kid......always have respct for flammable gasses under pressure now

Ha ha when shit boils at room temp and goes boom off from static i back out not out of fear from the gas but bad luck haha

Cause i could get real BAKED

But ill throw alcohol on a hot plate any day lol


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 6, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Homade vac chamber? Nice muffin
> 
> Ive only done qwet runs
> 
> ...


Well I didn’t say it was foolproof lol. I’ve only had one issue and it was nothing a fire extinguisher couldn’t handle . Honestly if done outside it’s as safe as can be lol. And yup a vac chamber on the cheap lol.


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 6, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Homade vac chamber? Nice muffin
> 
> Ive only done qwet runs
> 
> ...


I find iso has a bite to it but I have not tried it in a vac either which would, if nothing else, speed up the process


----------



## Cold$moke (Apr 6, 2018)

I ran everclear as i didnt like iso
Its qwet not qwiso
Plus it didnt require a vac chamber thats why i chose it


----------



## Budley Doright (Apr 7, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> I ran everclear as i didnt like iso
> Its qwet not qwiso
> Plus it didnt require a vac chamber thats why i chose it


We can’t get everclear here . And yup I missed the e . Ive also been looking at CO2.


----------



## JSB99 (Apr 10, 2018)

Today I'm tacklng the vertically challenged, which was expected from the beginning. The yo-yos, gate rings, and reflector hangers all take up precious vertical growing space. There's 8" to 10" extra height that can be regained. 

First step is to bypass the yo-yos and hang the reflector from the top yo-yo rings. That gained about 4"! Nexstep will be to bypass the rings and hang the reflector hangers directly from the zip ties, which will gain a couple more inches. Finally, if needed, I can hang the hood directly from the top poles using four zip ties. That'll get another 4".

Like I said, this was expected and I do this with all my grows. Now that I know how each of these three strains stretch, I can better plan in the future to keep the plants height in check.


The hood was hanging around 16" above the canopy, measuring 120,000 lumens. Temps are fine, but I don't want to bleach the tops of my plants. Plus, I need to expand the footprint.
 

You can see that the yo-yos are maxed out, but there's still a lot of vertical space available.
 

Here I bypassed the yo-yos and hung the hood directly from the yo-yo rings.
 

With the light raised a bit, I'm no longer worried about scorching the tops, right under the hood where the light is at it's most intensity.


----------



## Cold$moke (Apr 10, 2018)

Looking good bud what strains again?


----------



## JSB99 (Apr 10, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Looking good bud what strains again?


Back left - Girl Scout Crack. She stretches pretty good, and has been dominating the others for height. I've supercroped her quite a few times, trying to keep the canopy level.

Back right - Gorilla Cookies. This one was showing signs of boron deficiency when she was early in veg. But I had no way to correct it without overloading the other plants. A few weeks in I bumped up the TDS a fair amount, thinking that it might correct the problem, and cause just a touch of burn for the others, as a side-effect. That fixed the issue and she caught up with the others immediately. This one has dark green, spiky leaves, that look very different than the other three.

The two in front are White Widows. These were growing so squat and dense that I thought it was going to cause some issues with circulation penetrating the outer leaves. I trimmed these a lot during veg, but stopped when I flipped them. 

Yesterday, I trimmed the very lowest leaves and tiny branches, that would never reach the canopy, and were pretty much completely in the shade. This is the first grow where I haven't continuously trimmed throughout most of the plants' lives, and it has freed up so much of my time LOL!


----------



## Cold$moke (Apr 10, 2018)

Nice 

Yea its always a draw when running multiple strains in one setup 
I know your plight just gotta keep doing what your doing 

As long as you keep them this way they will be sweet


----------



## JSB99 (Apr 10, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Nice
> 
> Yea its always a draw when running multiple strains in one setup
> I know your plight just gotta keep doing what your doing
> ...


I always advise noobs to only grow single strains in a confined space, for obvious reasons LOL! But then I do the exact thing I advise against! But there's a reason for this. Next grow I only want to grow one of these strains, but I want to know ahead of time which one I wanted to grow. If one of them sucked, I'd hate to have a whole crop of it growing


----------



## Cold$moke (Apr 10, 2018)

Haha i too try to give good advice
When i dont follow it my self

I have some monster pics where i had 23 or so different strain full size (4 footers plus)
In just 3 systems lmao 

Doing mother runs with me is a fun time haha
And i usually let them grow till sex shows from seed untopped so i can see the traits they express 

Lol not optimal but it lets you pickout wich girls took the abuse the best haha


----------



## Cold$moke (Apr 10, 2018)

Now im going to build some kind of table where i can do seed runs in half the room
And still have my scrog setup on the otherside for production


----------



## JSB99 (Apr 13, 2018)

Things are starting to smell real good in the room, so it's almost time to hook up the scrubber. I've become painfully aware that "procrastination" isn't one of the Six-Ps (Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance) that I try to live by. The scrubber is waaaaaay in the back, so I'm going to have to turn myself into Stretch Armstrong to reach it and hook it up! Right now I'm like "Screw it, I'll just leave it unhooked!". It's completely legal to grow here in Oregon, and i'm not shy about it. All my neighborrs are cool! I'll just have to see how strong it gets. I'm at week-3 now, so plenty left to go.

You can't see the scrubber in this pic, because it's hanging behind the hood LOL!


----------



## JSB99 (Apr 15, 2018)

Maintenance tip for both noobs and old timers:

The little 6" fans that are so popular in tent's are really sensitive to dust. It doesn't take much dust buildup at all to get these fans pushing no air. It is so important to be moving air, and many serious problems can arise from lack of circulation!

It is so easy to pop the front grill off and pull the blade from the spline! I clean mine about every two weeks. I think a lot of people look past how significant it is keeping their fans working optimally.


----------



## JSB99 (Apr 18, 2018)

Any chance of bleaching?

I've got my 1k about 13" above the canopy. That's 13" to the glass, and about 15" to the light. Intensity is around 110,000 lumens, and temps are between 75 and 78. Am I in danger of burning/bleaching the tops? I've got 6" of headroom left, so I can still raise the hood a little more, though I haven't seen any more stretching from the girls.


----------



## Cold$moke (Apr 18, 2018)

You should see your leaf edges curl up before it bleaches ...
Just whatch for it and yoy should be good.


Looking nice bud!


----------



## JSB99 (Apr 18, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> You should see your leaf edges curl up before it bleaches ...
> Just whatch for it and yoy should be good.
> 
> 
> Looking nice bud!


Right on


----------



## JSB99 (Apr 30, 2018)

Its getting awfully dense in here! I haven't trimmed anything in flower, and I'm about three or four weeks out. Anyone think I should trim away some of these huge fans that are casting shade on everything? Dead leaves are falling below, so I've just been picking them up as they fall or are barely holding on.


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## Cold$moke (Apr 30, 2018)

Whoo hoo on the room

If i havent trimmed heavy from the get go 

I remove leaves more systematically then i do if im doing full defoliation as you dont want to stunt your plant .

So i would put a max of 5 leaves per plant 
Only big ones causing the most shade.
And only if they are 3rd from the top or farther 

This way your plant wont slow 

Good job bud


----------



## JSB99 (May 1, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Whoo hoo on the room
> 
> If i havent trimmed heavy from the get go
> 
> ...


Thanks!


----------



## Hotwired (May 1, 2018)

Nice fat ass tent


----------



## JSB99 (May 1, 2018)

This is my Girl Scout Crack at 5 weeks. Is this from a deficiency, or is just the way she grows? My tds is around 800ppm, and the two other strains i'm growing don't show any purple in them. I cant custom mix her soup if it is a deficiency, but i could try to run what I've got a little hotter.


----------



## rkymtnman (May 1, 2018)

Is the tip burn new or old on the GSCrack?


----------



## Cold$moke (May 1, 2018)

Looks like genetic purpling to me unless you got a cool breeze on em 

I wouldnt run em any hotter looks like they are getting enough from the tips.

It depends on how long till you plan on chopping
Looks like a fast finisher.

So i wouldnt go bumping her more then week 6 anyways then taper 

Im waiting to see if this girl will go any more purple


----------



## JSB99 (May 1, 2018)

rkymtnman said:


> Is the tip burn new or old on the GSCrack?


It's probably from last week, when I was up around 950ppm. I've backed down to around 800 now.


----------



## rkymtnman (May 1, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> It's probably from last week, when I was up around 950ppm. I've backed down to around 800 now.


she's got some funky little bud nubbins on her. looks cool. and frosty


----------



## JSB99 (May 1, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Looks like genetic purpling to me unless you got a cool breeze on em
> 
> I wouldnt run em any hotter looks like they are getting enough from the tips.
> 
> ...


Nice! I haven't gotten those towering colas yet. I'm hoping they fill out a lot more! 

No cool breeze on them at night. I have my exhaust fan running for 15 minutes each hour during lights out, to help with any moisture issues, but that's it


----------



## Cold$moke (May 1, 2018)

My main purple plant (not in pic) i have atm grew green untill the last few weeks then she purped out


----------



## JSB99 (May 1, 2018)

I stand corrected. Looks like they have been filling out. It's hard to tell unless I look underneath Like trying to see the sharks below the ocean water


----------



## JSB99 (May 1, 2018)

I use this grow cycle chart to see where I should be during my grows. Sometimes I think buds should be more filled out, but the chart is great at assuring me that everything's cool 

Grow Chart


----------



## Cold$moke (May 1, 2018)

Ha ha hidden gems


----------



## JSB99 (May 3, 2018)

Mmmmmmmmm... Purple  Don't know how she'll turn out, but it sure is tasty looking. Like BooBerry


----------



## JSB99 (May 15, 2018)

One more week, if that. The 22nd is the 8-week mark, and most of my triches are milky.

I wanted to note that I just did my second, and final, flush of the entire grow. The first time I flushed was after transitioning from veg to flower. However, this time I didn't do a full flush. I emptied it down to the bulkheads, then refilled. This dropped my TDS in half, which was my goal. While I was flushing I was wondering to myself, why I was dumping perfectly fine water LOL! I'm fairly certain that I can go a full grow with no flushes. Not saying that I'm the only one that can do this because of a special talent lol, I think a lot of people can do this. That is, those who have a fairly large water capacity in their system, and who are able to keep the water fresh using a few practices.


----------



## JSB99 (May 18, 2018)

You can't see me, I'm cannouflaged!


----------



## JSB99 (May 18, 2018)

Flowers, for me? How nice!


----------



## Cold$moke (May 18, 2018)

Lovely


----------



## JSB99 (May 18, 2018)

I'm seeing a fair amount of larf, even though I've got some meaty tops. This grow was the first where I didn't continuously trim the plants until around the third week of flower. I'm going to be going back to doing that. I'm convinced that I yield mire doing that.


----------



## Cold$moke (May 18, 2018)

It happens some strains like it some dont 

If its a first or seed run its always a guessing game


----------



## JSB99 (May 18, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> It happens some strains like it some dont
> 
> If its a first or seed run its always a guessing game


The White Widow rooted super-quick, and grew really compact. I really like the aggressiveness of them, but they grow so compact and dense that I found them difficult to keep up with. I'll do a scrog with either the Gorilla Cookies, or Girl Scout Crack, which is what the above pics are.


----------



## JSB99 (May 21, 2018)

Cleaning tips for noobs:

To clean the inside of your small pipes and tubes, take a length of nylon cord, and run it through the pipe. If you have curves and corners, run water through the pipe you're working with, and feed the rope into the pipe at the same time. The water will carry the cord through to the other side. Once passed through, tie a knot just smaller than the diameter of the tube or pipe, then floss 

If you have a lot of corners in your smaller PVC pipes, you can use a vacuum to suck one end of the cord through.


To clean larger pvc, pass the cord through the pipe, tie corners of a washcloth with each end of the cord, then floss 

It's really important to clean all your gear very thoroughly. When designing your system, take great consideration into how far you can break it down between grows, for easy cleaning. It only took about an hour to break everything down yesterday, and a couple hours of cleaning.


----------



## JSB99 (May 21, 2018)

I've got my four girls in soil, but something weird's happening. My temps are at least 5 degrees warmer than when I was running the RDWC, and I'm only using the 600w right now. There are two things that I think might be causing this, but I'm not entirely sure.

I always kept the water in the dwc hovering around 69 degrees. I also had a fan blowing across the surface of the water to help keep it cool, via evaporatice cooling. I also keep my air pump cool by exhausting the tent air across it. I'm wondering if all these things put together, along with the plants, were helping to keep the tent cool.
The HPS light is losing it's energy, and running hotter. This seems unlikely though, as it's fairly new, and still registers the correct lumins.
Any thoughts?

The one in the back was a tad thirsty


----------



## JSB99 (Jun 3, 2018)

So, I wanted to share the results of my harvest. It was fairly disappointing. I yielded a pound, and a bit of that was borderline larf. This was the first time I had tried not trimming, and I had such a thick canopy of leaves that it blocked out the majority of light. I didn't get tops rising up throught the canopy, like I was expecting. I'm going back to trimming, and I'm going to compare this grow against the last.

I had four plants in soil, a week or so into veg, waiting to go. These are the same four plants I just grew (Girl Scout Crack, Gorilla Cookies, and two White Widows. I'll have to take into account that one was hydro and this one is soil. I'm already seeing a huge difference in growth between the two. There's such aggressive growth with the dwc compaired to the soil. I'm like, "what the hell, hurry up and grow!". From what I understand, flowering is pretty much the same between the two styles of growing. It's in rooting and veg the hydro is much faster than soil.

The reason I'm growing in soil is because it's a bitch trying to keep the res cool in the summer. You pretty much have to use a chiller, to avoid issues. The pumps create heat as well. It's either grow in soil under the 1k, or hydro under the 600.

Getting close to flipping
 


Supercroped


----------



## Cold$moke (Jun 3, 2018)

Right on bro!

Yea i havent posted my results yet on my thread either i just weighed the last of it yesterday just cuase i did not get even close to my goal with half my room getting stunted 

haha but i did not stay optimal either so im not being too hard on my self but i didnt even hit 1gpw this run

I also may be switching out systems for summer
Due to heat as well. 
Havent decided about half my room but one rdwc set up is definitely coming out to play with other designs 

But i havent gone the dirt path yet so ill still be doing hydro....just one thats not temp sensitive like dwc can be hopefully.

Looking good JSB99!


----------



## JSB99 (Jun 3, 2018)

I'll mention that I did get a lot of stellar buds, just not as much as I was hoping.


----------



## JSB99 (Jun 3, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Right on bro!
> 
> Yea i havent posted my results yet on my thread either i just weighed the last of it yesterday just cuase i did not get even close to my goal with half my room getting stunted
> 
> ...


We all have our refrigerator door-worthy scorecards, as well as the ones eaten by that mischiefous dog LOL!

One upside to dirt is that it doesn't take a lot of hands-on maintenance, in both the plants and equipment. A downside...hand watering them and mixing nutes every other day. I've got everything I need to set up a drip system, but that's just one more thing I've got to build, and I've got other hobbies going on. I still like to tinker in there, and fine tune stuff though


----------



## Cold$moke (Jun 3, 2018)

Yep i need to be working on the new system now but with summer comes many things that spreads me too thin

We only have a few months of "summer" so its hard to get to everything lol

I had mabey a few grams of larf all the buds where legit 
Just didnt hit the weight i wanted 


Im just going to set up a dirt simple nft setup
No air. Just a res, a pump, and a timer .


----------



## PetFlora (Jun 4, 2018)

although I have had success with DWC (seedlings/clones and growing to harvest) I find F & D to make my life easier. I use Igloo type coolers and rotate blue ice paks, but a chiller would be nice if I only had one rez.


----------



## JSB99 (Jun 4, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> although I have had success with DWC (seedlings/clones and growing to harvest) I find F & D to make my life easier. I use Igloo type coolers and rotate blue ice paks, but a chiller would be nice if I only had one rez.


I had been doing the frozen water jug thing, and I was able to maintain temps, but I had to stay on top of it throughout the day. That was when temps were cooler. I doubt I'd be able to keep up with it during the summer.


----------



## PetFlora (Jun 4, 2018)

I hear ya. Same issue here

Check this out 

Not sure how to apply it or what it costs, but it is interesting


----------



## JSB99 (Jun 4, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> I hear ya. Same issue here
> 
> Check this out
> 
> Not sure how to apply it or what it costs, but it is interesting


That's cool! Even the micro-bubbles are cool, especially compared to my pump and stones. I wonder if it uses electrolysis to create the DO.


----------



## PetFlora (Jun 4, 2018)

the person who posted replied with a bit more info 

https://steemit.com/steemit/@verbz/fantastic-properties-of-nano-bubbles Making nano bubbles that remain in the water for months which super saturates the water with whatever gas you and checked. For purposes of drinking and in taking massive amounts of oxygen which suppresses cancer. For plant growth, cleaning bodies of water, so salt water and freshwater fish can be in the same aquarium tank, to emulsify liquids without a surfactant, and many more benefits.


----------



## JSB99 (Jun 4, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> the person who posted replied with a bit more info
> 
> https://steemit.com/steemit/@verbz/fantastic-properties-of-nano-bubbles Making nano bubbles that remain in the water for months which super saturates the water with whatever gas you and checked. For purposes of drinking and in taking massive amounts of oxygen which suppresses cancer. For plant growth, cleaning bodies of water, so salt water and freshwater fish can be in the same aquarium tank, to emulsify liquids without a surfactant, and many more benefits.


To quote Neo, "Whoa!"


----------



## PetFlora (Jun 4, 2018)

This could be a big deal for hydro. I saw a different YT video today where the nanobubbles stay in the solution for hours. That would eliminate air stones, pumps etc. 

https://www.o2grow.com/


----------



## JSB99 (Jun 4, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> This could be a big deal for hydro. I saw a different YT video today where the nanobubbles stay in the solution for hours. That would eliminate air stones, pumps etc.
> 
> https://www.o2grow.com/


No doubt! It'll probably cost a small fortune when it first hits the markets, I'm sure.


----------



## Cold$moke (Jun 4, 2018)

The only thing extra needed in my oppinon is some movement of the water.


DO levels needed by a plant are pretty easy too achieve.

But the problem comes when circulation of the DO doesnt circulate throughout the root ball


I think of the roots in a similar way as the top side of the plant..leaves use up co2 levels quickly around them thats why circulation fans are necessary in doors.

The roots are similar in that they will branch off when cut just like the top of the plant and will
Use up DO around them and need it replenished

At least in my oppinon im not a botanist


----------



## JSB99 (Jun 4, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> The only thing extra needed in my oppinon is some movement of the water.
> 
> 
> DO levels needed by a plant are pretty easy too achieve.
> ...


Good point!


----------



## Keesje (Jun 5, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> The only thing extra needed in my oppinon is some movement of the water.
> 
> 
> DO levels needed by a plant are pretty easy too achieve.
> ...


You are right.
Maximum DO levels are easy to reach.
Just a bit of agitation and Bingo.
The risk in DWC can be that the water inside the rootball, is not refreshed enough.
Water with no DO stays there.

Some experiment with pumping out the water of a DWC container every couple of hours or once a day.

It is a pity that commercial large scale growers hardly use DWC. Otherwise one could copy more from them, and also benefit more from ongoing studies.


----------



## PetFlora (Jun 5, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> The only thing extra needed in my oppinon is some movement of the water.
> 
> 
> DO levels needed by a plant are pretty easy too achieve.
> ...


I am in communication with O2grow. It appears that nanobubbles stay in suspension for hours, unless/until disturbed (flood cycle). Or, if using RDWC then the emitters would need to stay on

Here's an interesting link

https://steemit.com/steemit/@verbz/fantastic-properties-of-nano-bubbles


----------



## Keesje (Jun 5, 2018)

No, the link is not interesting.
Some company puts out a lot of claims for which they have no proof.

Do you not think that commercial growers for who every extra ounce of product per 9 square foot, and which would mean hundredthousands, or even millions of dollars of profit, would not use this system?

If you believe in it. Fine, but keep it to yourself and don't post it here as if it is all allready proven truth.


----------



## PetFlora (Jun 5, 2018)

Keesje said:


> No, the link is not interesting.
> Some company puts out a lot of claims for which they have no proof.
> 
> Do you not think that commercial growers for who every extra ounce of product per 9 square foot, and which would mean hundredthousands, or even millions of dollars of profit, would not use this system?
> ...


_More proof you can't fix stupid. I've done what I came to do in these 3 threads_

There's an old saying_ "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" 
_

_See ya, wouldn't want to be ya_


----------



## Cold$moke (Jun 7, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> I am in communication with O2grow. It appears that nanobubbles stay in suspension for hours, unless/until disturbed (flood cycle). Or, if using RDWC then the emitters would need
> 
> Here's an interesting link
> 
> https://steemit.com/steemit/@verbz/fantastic-properties-of-nano-bubbles


I didn't read the link


And while i will not doubt the "nano bubbles" stay suspended for hours that doesn't include a plants hungry root ball and getting the nanobubbles to the center of the root mass

Or does it show such things in the.link?


Keesje said:


> No, the link is not interesting.
> Some company puts out a lot of claims for which they have no proof.
> 
> Do you not think that commercial growers for who every extra ounce of product per 9 square foot, and which would mean hundredthousands, or even millions of dollars of profit, would not use this system?
> ...


This is why im moving away from rdwc (or at least trying other methods )

No major ag company uses dwc......i wonder why lol


----------



## Keesje (Jun 7, 2018)

I think they do not use it, because it is not a reliable system for a larger scale.
DWC, rdwc, also F&D/E&F like people on this forum use it.
High maintance for commercial growers, and there are easier systems like a bassin with styrofoam panels with holes.
Ciculating the water every hour and that's it.
Or NFT, also used a lot.


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## JSB99 (Jun 7, 2018)

Keesje said:


> I think they do not use it, because it is not a reliable system for a larger scale.
> DWC, rdwc, also F&D/E&F like people on this forum use it.
> High maintance for commercial growers, and there are easier systems like a bassin with styrofoam panels with holes.
> Ciculating the water every hour and that's it.
> Or NFT, also used a lot.


The equipment is probably expensive as shit!


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## Keesje (Jun 7, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> The equipment is probably expensive as shit!


It is.
They are counting in cents, so if they can save a little bit, they will do it.
And maintanance is a big issue.
So they are willing to invest in a system, but once the system is running, it must not be too much of a hassle.

I was in a greenhouse similar like this.
They grow lettuce.
Building it was quite a thing, but maintance is low.







It are styrofoam boards with holes, floating on the surface.
The roots are in the water in the bassin.
There are a few systems to get DO in the water.
Some use just ciculation every hour for 5 or 10 minutes.
Others have constant circulation, and some use a venturi as well. But this last one is not used that much, because there are signs that if your bring oxygen in your water in such a way, it can also bring in diseases.
The last thing I wrote, is how I remember it, but it can also be a bit different. So don't get mad if I am mis-quoting.

They hardly care about temperature as long as it stays in a certain margin.
They also do not care to much about light coming in the bassin. You sometimes see some green slimey stuff.
Also they walk in the bassin with their boots.


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## JSB99 (Jun 7, 2018)

Threaded my net today. I used 1/4lb Mason line this time. Works great! I'm not really going to do a scrog. I'll spread the branches out, but really, the net's to support the tops.


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## SSGrower (Jun 7, 2018)

Keesje said:


> It is.
> They are counting in cents, so if they can save a little bit, they will do it.
> And maintanance is a big issue.
> So they are willing to invest in a system, but once the system is running, it must not be too much of a hassle.
> ...


Something could be lower cost but still not feasible because initial investment of the large scale system has not outlived its economic viability.


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## JSB99 (Jun 9, 2018)

I set up some drippers so I don't have to mix and hand-feed almost every day. I've got adjustable emitters now, but getting them all the same output is a little tricky, so I'm probably going to use low gph bubbler emitters.

What I'm wondering is, with something like 1gph emitters, is it enough to hydrate all the soil in the buckets, or should I think about using a couple emitters, spread apart, at the surface?


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## JSB99 (Jun 10, 2018)

I switched up my setup. It was too crowded in the tent, and I wanted a much larger reservoir.

I've also got a valve I can use to attach a float valve, to the reservoir, if I want.


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## Michael Huntherz (Jun 10, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> I switched up my setup. It was too crowded in the tent, and I wanted a much larger reservoir.
> 
> I've also got a valve I can use to attach a float valve, to the reservoir, if I want.
> 
> View attachment 4148993


Beautifully simple.


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## JSB99 (Jun 10, 2018)

Michael Huntherz said:


> Beautifully simple.


Thx!


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## JSB99 (Jun 10, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> I switched up my setup. It was too crowded in the tent, and I wanted a much larger reservoir.
> 
> I've also got a valve I can use to attach a float valve, to the reservoir, if I want.
> 
> View attachment 4148993


I've got a cheapo 15-minute, incremental timer that I'll have run once or twice a day. I have to get bubble emitters that output a fixed amount, then I can time how long it takes before I start getting run-off.


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## JSB99 (Jun 12, 2018)

Breaking the plain 
The White Widow on the right, grow so compact that I had to raise them up! I bet they are great for lower height grows. Her smoke is fairly strong, and can induce some sleepy eyes (but not all the time). The Girl Scout Crack is superb! Great day time smoke, and really potent! The Gorilla Cookies is great as well, but not as strong as the other two. I'm a morning to midnight toker, so I'm judging these on the first vape balloon of the day.


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## JSB99 (Jun 12, 2018)

I was wondering if the cola-heavy branches of a soil grown plant are stronger than hydro. Mainly to see if I should add a second net to support them.


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## JSB99 (Jun 12, 2018)

I'm a couple weeks into flower, and things are starting to warm up as summer gets closer. Even with my air-cooled hood, and the 440cfm fan on max, temps can hit the high 80s. I'm trying to keep my temps in the mid-70s, which I've been reading is beneficial to the quality of the bud. I've had no problem hovering around 85 during flower, so I want to see how it compares.

Since I don't have a window shaker yet, I tapped into the floor duct. I keep my ac circulation on, during lights on, and keep my house around 72f, and it keeps the temps in check. I usually keep the house fan on during allergy season anyways, to filter the pollen.


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## JSB99 (Jun 15, 2018)

To help avoid bugs coming into the grow room, I do a few things:

I don't let my dog or cat into the grow room
I never go near my grow until I've showered, if I had been doing yardwork
I use my compressor to blow off myself and my dog, every time we take a walk (and she loves the cool air from the compressor)
Though I don't know if I would have gotten any bugs if I hadn't been using my compressor, I feel a whole lot better after seeing all the small debris blown off my dog. A small hot dog, or pancake compressor is fairly inexpensive, and it's handy to have around anyways.

Just a little advice for some of the new growers


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## JSB99 (Jun 16, 2018)

There's a huge difference between how my girls look this grow, compared to last. I usually trim at various points in the grow, to get rid of growth too deep for the light to hit. My canopy's pretty thin this grow, and I have the tops filling out nicely. We'll see what the difference in yield and quality is. I wasn't impressed by my last yield, so hopefully young back to how I used to grow will make a noticeable difference.


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## JSB99 (Jun 16, 2018)

Better pics:


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## JSB99 (Jul 18, 2018)

Giving an update on how my plants are doing this grow, compared to last. This grow I trimmed twice. They turned out a lot better, but I'm also comparing a soil grow to a dwc grow. Next grow will be dwc, and I'll trim like I did this time.

Week 6 of flower:


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## PetFlora (Jul 19, 2018)

*Addressing the OPs thread title:* The question on my mind is _based on whether improving a waterfall's 8% DO to 12% (50% increase) be worth a ~ $300 investment? 

According to the demonstration video, the O2Grow DO emitter system provides 12% (50% increase)_, BUT, is there an actual benefit? Dunno. I have searched but have not found a grow thread side-by-side, or anyone using it. Due to the emitter's DO staying in suspension for hours, some say it eliminates a chiller (chillers are about the same price as a 2020 O2Grow).

For future reference, I recently came across this seemingly kick-ass hybrid UC/F & D system

Thinking to incorporate the 6 pack into my F & D set up, but even semi-flooding the 5g buckets will require a bigger rez than I am using now, as well as a lot more stones.

https://greenenvysupply.com/brand/oxygen-pot-systems/


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## JSB99 (Jul 19, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> *Addressing the OPs thread title:* The question on my mind is _based on whether improving a waterfall's 8% DO to 12% (50% increase) be worth a ~ $300 investment?
> 
> According to the demonstration video, the O2Grow DO emitter system provides 12% (50% increase)_, BUT, is there an actual benefit? Dunno. I have searched but have not found a grow thread side-by-side, or anyone using it. Due to the emitter's DO staying in suspension for hours, some say it eliminates a chiller (chillers are about the same price as a 2020 O2Grow).
> 
> ...


I don't think the problem is providing enough o2, it's getting the oxygen to the center of the roots. So, I'm not sure the emitters produce anymore oxygen than the plants can obsorb, and it would still require a powerful water pump to get any provided oxygen to the center of the root ball.


----------



## Mass Medicinals (Jul 19, 2018)

Those plants all look amazing! Great work.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 19, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> I don't think the problem is providing enough o2, it's getting the oxygen to the center of the roots. So, I'm not sure the emitters produce anymore oxygen than the plants can obsorb, and it would still require a powerful water pump to get any provided oxygen to the center of the root ball.


Yup I think that’s the key as well. Get the oxygenated water to the inside of the root ball. Nice job!


----------



## JSB99 (Jul 19, 2018)

Mass Medicinals said:


> Those plants all look amazing! Great work.


Thx


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## PetFlora (Jul 20, 2018)

*Getting O2Grow nanobubble DO to the middle of a root ball *should not be an issue with DWC, however, I would have a mental conditioning problem trusting that the roots would be fine soaking 24/7 without lots of bubbles (a ts run with some bag seed should solve that), but with F & D, since the nanobubble DO stays in suspension for hours, a short cycle time will saturate the rez= no added CO2, or possible airborne pathogens


----------



## Airwalker16 (Jul 20, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> *Getting O2Grow nanobubble DO to the middle of a root ball *should not be an issue with DWC, however, I would have a mental conditioning problem trusting that the roots would be fine soaking 24/7 without lots of bubbles (a ts run with some bag seed should solve that), but with F & D, since the nanobubble DO stays in suspension for hours, a short cycle time will saturate the rez= no added CO2, or possible airborne pathogens


I can guarantee bubbles are not necessary at all.


----------



## Budley Doright (Jul 20, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> *Getting O2Grow nanobubble DO to the middle of a root ball *should not be an issue with DWC, however, I would have a mental conditioning problem trusting that the roots would be fine soaking 24/7 without lots of bubbles (a ts run with some bag seed should solve that), but with F & D, since the nanobubble DO stays in suspension for hours, a short cycle time will saturate the rez= no added CO2, or possible airborne pathogens


Start a thread when you get it up and running.


----------



## Airwalker16 (Jul 20, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> Start a thread when you get it up and running.


 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he was saying he is going to be doing a run with these emitters, but instead just confirming that bubbles won't be an issue as far as the center of it goes and that he's just pointing something out?


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## PetFlora (Jul 21, 2018)

Airwalker16 said:


> I can guarantee bubbles are not necessary at all.



I am anxious to see your proof


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## PetFlora (Jul 21, 2018)

Airwalker16 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he was saying he is going to be doing a run with these emitters, but instead just confirming that bubbles won't be an issue as far as the center of it goes and that he's just pointing something out?


The possibility has turned into a probability, but not likely until after a 7 day trip in mid October


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## Airwalker16 (Jul 21, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> I am anxious to see your proof


I've posted it multiple times already.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/i-gotta-lose-the-air-pumps-how-plus-my-awesome-mini-dwc.960807/page-2#post-14251657


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## Budley Doright (Jul 21, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> I am anxious to see your proof


Proof of what?
Ok thanks for editing and clarifying what proof. There has been many successful grows that do not use a bubbler so again what proof are you look g for.


----------



## Budley Doright (Jul 21, 2018)

Airwalker16 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he was saying he is going to be doing a run with these emitters, but instead just confirming that bubbles won't be an issue as far as the center of it goes and that he's just pointing something out?


I’m really not sure what’s being conveyed lol. But I wish he would stop posting in others threads about these stupid emitters that IMO are a complete waste of money. Start his own thread when he gets them .


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## JSB99 (Jul 21, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> I’m really not sure what’s being conveyed lol. But I wish he would stop posting in others threads about these stupid emitters that IMO are a complete waste of money. Start his own thread when he gets them .


Thank you!


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## JSB99 (Jul 21, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> I’m really not sure what’s being conveyed lol. But I wish he would stop posting in others threads about these stupid emitters that IMO are a complete waste of money. Start his own thread when he gets them .


Even though the subject matter has changed from the original topic ("Which would create more DO"), I'm still trying to show comparisons between different techniques of growing. There's never too much to learn, and I hope this benefits others who are just getting their feet wet. I know there are countless threads and sites with all this information, but I think fresh posts and pics serve as "current information", as opposed to threads that are years old.


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## PetFlora (Jul 21, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> I’m really not sure what’s being conveyed lol. But I wish he would stop posting in others threads about these stupid emitters that IMO are a complete waste of money. Start his own thread when he gets them .


So the title of the thread means nothing to you? No need to respond, just pointing out your ignorance

And since you have never used them or know anyone who has (or you would have said so), your opinion is meaningless


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## Budley Doright (Jul 21, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> So the title of the thread means nothing to you? No need to respond, just pointing out your ignorance
> 
> And since you have never used them or know anyone who has (or you would have said so), your opinion is meaningless


Your right, no need to respond to a respected grower like yourself lol.


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## PetFlora (Jul 22, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> Your right, no need to respond to a respected grower like yourself lol.


Or a stupid one who does not know the difference between your and you are


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## mytwhyt (Jul 22, 2018)

No, it's between your and you're.. Who's the real dumb ass here?


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## Airwalker16 (Jul 22, 2018)

...


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## Budley Doright (Jul 22, 2018)

mytwhyt said:


> No, it's between your and you're.. Who's the real dumb ass here?


Ok grammar police, that’s it, all you got huh lol.


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## JSB99 (Jul 22, 2018)

Airwalker16 said:


> ...


Silence is golden, LOL!


----------



## mytwhyt (Jul 22, 2018)

Don't get your knickers in a knot BD, that was for PF..


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## PetFlora (Jul 22, 2018)

mytwhyt said:


> No, it's between your and you're.. Who's the real dumb ass here?


He gave me no reason to expect he knew what a contraction is


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## Budley Doright (Jul 22, 2018)

mytwhyt said:


> Don't get your knickers in a knot BD, that was for PF..


Ya sorry wrong quote .


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## Budley Doright (Jul 22, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> He gave me no reason to expect he knew what a contraction is


And you give me no reason to believe you can grow decent plants.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 22, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Silence is golden, LOL!


Sorry to fuck up the thread . He just has that effect on me .


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## PetFlora (Jul 23, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> And you give me no reason to believe you can grow decent plants.



you don't even know the most basic english, but expect people to assume that you might know what you're talking about when it comes to insulting me as a grower LOLOLOLOL


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## Budley Doright (Jul 23, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> you don't even know the most basic english, but expect people to assume that you might know what you're talking about when it comes to insulting me as a grower LOLOLOLOL


I know what’s I knows .


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## Budley Doright (Jul 23, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> you don't even know the most basic english, but expect people to assume that you might know what you're talking about when it comes to insulting me as a grower LOLOLOLOL


Your thread I believe? LOL
*Do Small Rootballs Always Mean Small Plant Harvest*


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## JSB99 (Jul 24, 2018)

About a week left. The tops are a lot more massive than last time!


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## Budley Doright (Jul 25, 2018)

Looking very nice, I’m looking forward to switching to pails (gifted12 square ones last year), just not sure how I’ll run them yet. I’m leaning towards getting away from flooded systems.


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## JSB99 (Jul 25, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> Looking very nice, I’m looking forward to switching to pails (gifted12 square ones last year), just not sure how I’ll run them yet. I’m leaning towards getting away from flooded systems.


Growing in soil has been a little easier since things move so slow, but I'm ready to get back to dwc


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## Budley Doright (Jul 25, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Growing in soil has been a little easier since things move so slow, but I'm ready to get back to dwc


Oh I don’t want to do soil lol. Just not flooded but maybe DTW.


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## JSB99 (Jul 25, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> Oh I don’t want to do soil lol. Just not flooded but maybe DTW.


Gotcha


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## JSB99 (Jul 28, 2018)

It's almost time to harvest, so I wanted to show a side-by-side comparison of how my trimmed plants fair against the non-trimmed plants from the previous grow. The colas from the current grow are significantly larger than the previous grow. I only trimmed a couple times this grow, and no trimming last grow.

*Last grow:*
* *

* *

* *


*Current grow:*
**

* *


----------



## TIMtoKILL (Jul 28, 2018)

At what weeks did you do your major trimming?


----------



## JSB99 (Jul 28, 2018)

TIMtoKILL said:


> At what weeks did you do your major trimming?


Around the 3rd week of veg, when they start getting really bushy, I'll remove a lot of the lower stuff and some of the small branches and leaves growing in the middle. Basically enough to let the air circulate through the plants.

Then, about a week into flower, I'll remove most of the stuff below a foot from the canopy top (meaning, the canopy is around 12" deep). Most of the branches I remove is stuff that'll never make it to the canopy top.

I could've vegged longer and filled out the entire net, but I was doing a quick grow.

I don't know if what I'm doing is the best way, but I've always (smartly) trimmed, and always had really good results. If I was growing outside, I wouldn't touch them, but for indoors, you have to work to get the most out of the limited lights available.


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## JSB99 (Jul 30, 2018)

This is kind of wierd, and I don't know if something's going on. The leaves around one of the colas are all yellow and crusty. This is the only one doing this. I'm within a week of harvesting, but if this is some sort of disease or pest, I'll harvest now.


----------



## coreywebster (Jul 30, 2018)

Any rot in that bud @JSB99


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## JSB99 (Jul 30, 2018)

coreywebster said:


> Any rot in that bud @JSB99


Don't think so. Lots of circulation, and the bud is rock-solid.

I'll take a close-up in a few.


----------



## coreywebster (Jul 30, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Don't think so. Lots of circulation, and the bud is rock-solid.
> 
> I'll take a close-up in a few.


Lets hope not ey. I would rather ask and be wrong than not ask and let it go unchecked 
Give that rancid leaf a little tug. If it doesn't pull out with no effort your probably good.
I just get suspicious when I see something only on one cola.
looking great other than that freakiness.


----------



## JSB99 (Jul 30, 2018)

The bud doesn't show any signs of mold or rot, and again, it's the only one doing this. One of the pics shows the surrounding colas from the same plant. All the others look totally normal.


----------



## JSB99 (Jul 30, 2018)

coreywebster said:


> Lets hope not ey. I would rather ask and be wrong than not ask and let it go unchecked
> Give that rancid leaf a little tug. If it doesn't pull out with no effort your probably good.
> I just get suspicious when I see something only on one cola.
> looking great other than that freakiness.


Leaves are all holding tight, even after a few good tugs.


----------



## coreywebster (Jul 30, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Leaves are all holding tight, even after a few good tugs.


Well that's good to know its not rot. Last thing anyone wants at this point. 
Im only guessing here but somethings stopping nutrients getting to that part of the plant. A bit of damage to the roots somehow? or a branch or just a cold spot in the corner of your res? I imaging you would of seen something similar before if that were the case though.
Either way its close to the end so it may just be a mystery that goes unsolved.
Damn fine plant pics man. Worthy of a breeders catalogue.


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## JSB99 (Jul 30, 2018)

A few more pics...


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## JSB99 (Jul 30, 2018)

coreywebster said:


> Well that's good to know its not rot. Last thing anyone wants at this point.
> Im only guessing here but somethings stopping nutrients getting to that part of the plant. A bit of damage to the roots somehow? or a branch or just a cold spot in the corner of your res? I imaging you would of seen something similar before if that were the case though.
> Either way its close to the end so it may just be a mystery that goes unsolved.
> Damn fine plant pics man. Worthy of a breeders catalogue.


Thanks, I appreciate the kind words 

Yeah, it's really odd because this is the only cola on the plant, and it's right under the light. Last grow I had a few colas that looked a little overcooked. They were all fine, but it was kind of odd. What's happening here is different than what I saw then though.


----------



## TIMtoKILL (Jul 31, 2018)

Are you weaning off your fertilizers? Could be a sun spot if it’s right under your light.


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## Airwalker16 (Jul 31, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> The bud doesn't show any signs of mold or rot, and again, it's the only one doing this. One of the pics shows the surrounding colas from the same plant. All the others look totally normal.
> 
> View attachment 4173532
> 
> ...


Do you smoke cigarettes? If you do, and go in to your garden after one, it could be tobacco mosaic. Almost looks like it.


----------



## JSB99 (Jul 31, 2018)

Airwalker16 said:


> Do you smoke cigarettes? If you do, and go in to your garden after one, it could be tobacco mosaic. Almost looks like it.


Nah, don't smoke


----------



## JSB99 (Jul 31, 2018)

TIMtoKILL said:


> Are you weaning off your fertilizers? Could be a sun spot if it’s right under your light.


Yeah, I'm giving straight water now. I would think that anything effecting that one would be effecting the others, which are close by. One of them is in the exact center, and it's a meaty, towering cola. But that one's totally fine. 

Wierd


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## XipXipXoom (Aug 2, 2018)

define straight water? you always want to supply the immobile elements... my guess is the cola directly under light has highest rate of photosynthesis so shows immobile def first. top of plant indicates immobile def.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 2, 2018)

XipXipXoom said:


> define straight water? you always want to supply the immobile elements... my guess is the cola directly under light has highest rate of photosynthesis so shows immobile def first. top of plant indicates immobile def.


Meaning plain tap water (70ppm).


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## JSB99 (Aug 2, 2018)

I'm checking out the odd cola, and it smells like it's already drying and curing. It has that cut grass smell to it. There's another cola starting to look similar, but for the most part, the rest look and smell normal. I think I'm going to go ahead and chop her down. The others are looking pretty ripe as well, so I might harvest everything.


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## Airwalker16 (Aug 2, 2018)

CHECK THE THRICHOMES WITH A 60X MAGNIFIER.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 2, 2018)

Airwalker16 said:


> CHECK THE THRICHOMES WITH A 60X MAGNIFIER.


Oh yeah, I have been. I've got a 30x and 100x. Things are pretty milky, but no ambers. I usually wait until I see a few.

I just cut down the Girl Scout Crack, and the buds are HUGE! The discolored cola looks rotten. It doesn't pull apart easily so it might not have gotten too far. But I'm tossing it. Probably some kind of root issue.

I'll post pics of the booty after I rough trim.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 2, 2018)

Got lots of hefty colas, and very little larf! Way better than last grow!

This is the Girl Scout Crack tally. The weight of these buds and colas is impressive! But, I had a couple tops thatt were rotting, even though there's nothing falling apart. It just smells funky. I separated one of the brown tops to see if I could salvage the lower half. Should i just toss them (the good parts), or will they be fine?

 

The rotting tops:
 

The bottom part of a rotting top:


----------



## XipXipXoom (Aug 2, 2018)

So it was bud rot? I dont think its a root issue if its only occuring directly beneath the light. more likely a temp/vpd issue. Do you have an IR temp gun? It might be worth checking the differences in temp between plants and making your screen a V or bowl shape to more equalize light distances.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 2, 2018)

XipXipXoom said:


> So it was bud rot? I dont think its a root issue if its only occuring directly beneath the light. more likely a temp/vpd issue. Do you have an IR temp gun? It might be worth checking the differences in temp between plants and making your screen a V or bowl shape to more equalize light distances.


Got an IR gun, and the temps were always between 75 and 79. The other colas are fine, so who knows. They don't smell rotten, more of a cut grass kind of smell. It's almost like they finished early and started to go bad. Thankfully it's isolated


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 6, 2018)

Got about a week left on the remaining plants (2 x White Widow, 1 x Gorilla Cookies).


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 8, 2018)

A little bud porn. This is half the buds. Now, back to trimming 

*Girl scout crack:*
*  *


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 9, 2018)

Today, Gorilla Cookies joins those, for whom the bells toll. BwaHaaHaaHaaaaaa...


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 9, 2018)

Ended up with some pretty massive colas. The buds on this Gorilla Cookies are rock-hard, just like the Girl Scout Crack. The GSC yielded 5oz\142g. I think the GC is going to be a little more.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 9, 2018)

White widow, number one. Colas are pretty massive!


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## JSB99 (Aug 17, 2018)

Total take, 22oz\616gr. There wasn't much larf at all, and I didn't jar anything that was larf this time. Last time, I had quite a bit and jarred some borderline larf in case I ran out of bud. So, last harvest, without trimming, I got 16oz. And again, that was with the larf.

So, I shall continue trimming  .Next grow will be back to RDWC, so I'm anxious to see how that does compared to this grow, which was soil.


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 29, 2018)

My killer, no-chiller solution...

I refuse to get a chiller, but determined to keep my water temps down. Last few hydro grows I used frozen jugs to keep temps in check, and it worked great. However, it's kind of a pain. I also had a small fan blowing across the surface, which also helped keep temps down via, evaporative cooling.

What I'm trying now is using the room's vent, and ducting to route the cool air to the water. I keep my house blower on all the time because it filters allergens in the house. So, there's always cool air blowing on the water.

So far it's working really well! Temps are hovering around 67f/19c!


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## JSB99 (Sep 3, 2018)

After a week, I'm happy to report that temps never budged from 68f! That's keeping my 60 gallon RDWC chilly, with no chiller! F'N Rocks!!! LOL!


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## Unit Farm System Supply (Sep 6, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Got lots of hefty colas, and very little larf! Way better than last grow!
> 
> This is the Girl Scout Crack tally. The weight of these buds and colas is impressive! But, I had a couple tops thatt were rotting, even though there's nothing falling apart. It just smells funky. I separated one of the brown tops to see if I could salvage the lower half. Should i just toss them (the good parts), or will they be fine?
> 
> ...


wow


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## Dabhead710 (Jan 13, 2019)

JSB99 said:


> Been running since last night with no leaks! Didn't start off that way though.
> 
> First, I wrapped the threads with Teflon (for extra protection), and used a single washer on each bulkhead. I had a couple stubborn drips that I couldn't get to stop, no matter how tight I got it. So I drained the system for adjustments.
> 
> ...


 Do you have any leaking issues with your pvc fittings since you sealed them with aquarium sealant as I'm downsizing and doing a 2 tote setup with 27gal however I'm going with the lowes brand not the cheap ass home depot trash ones they have as they are 1/2 as thick as lowes....also I have read cvpvc grey is best for them sealing together as they are tapered and the pvc is not which maybe why your having leaking issues or that the buckets are too thin and the lowes would be a better bet if you had issues...I'm thinkn about doing the pvc and gasket fittings over bulkheads but not sure if they seal and will be worth it and not have 100gal in my basement...also if you would do it again would you change your return line size...and what about using 3way tees instead 90 elbows for easier cleaning? And pvc return line over the 3/4 hose? Thanks


----------



## Airwalker16 (Jan 13, 2019)

Dabhead710 said:


> Do you have any leaking issues with your pvc fittings since you sealed them with aquarium sealant as I'm downsizing and doing a 2 tote setup with 27gal however I'm going with the lowes brand not the cheap ass home depot trash ones they have as they are 1/2 as thick as lowes....also I have read cvpvc grey is best for them sealing together as they are tapered and the pvc is not which maybe why your having leaking issues or that the buckets are too thin and the lowes would be a better bet if you had issues...I'm thinkn about doing the pvc and gasket fittings over bulkheads but not sure if they seal and will be worth it and not have 100gal in my basement...also if you would do it again would you change your return line size...and what about using 3way tees instead 90 elbows for easier cleaning? And pvc return line over the 3/4 hose? Thanks


Tees are something I overlooked


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## JSB99 (Mar 18, 2019)

Hey everyone, thought I'd check in, and go over why noobs should stay away from aggressive strains when growing indoors.

I thought I'd grow another batch of Super Silver Haze, and just like the first batch I grew years ago, it's been quite a challenge keeping them from kissing the light. Just for reference, the two colas in my signature are from my first SSH grow.

In nature, these are trees. They'll grow 25', easily, so growing them inside takes a lot of attention, and experience in high stress training. In the pics below, they are 4' tall, and the tops are about 12" from the glass of my EH 1k hps I'm a few weeks into flower, and have had to super crop almost every other day! But they won't slow down LOL! I've seen top branches grow 4" on some days! I'm thinking the stretch is almost over, or at least I hope. SSH go for 16 weeks, so I still have a ways to go. i'm going to have so many top buds, but some right under the light might get bleached.

So noobs, you'll want to stay away from aggressive strains like this


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## JSB99 (Mar 18, 2019)

My temps hover at 80, at the tops. And, I'm still able to keep my water temps at 66 to 69, with no effort, and with no chiller!


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## JSB99 (Mar 19, 2019)

This is the view from my side door LOL!! Doesn't leave much room to work anymore, but I think they've stopped stretching.


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## JSB99 (Mar 19, 2019)

I get cool air to my res a little differently in the winter, since the floor vent would be blowing out warm air. Instead of using the room's floor duct, I use the fan that brings fresh air into the room. In the summer, I use the floor vent, because the air coming out is around 62 degrees. Much cooler than the house temp in the summer (73 degrees). My house in the winter is 68 degrees.

So in the summer, the house ac air blowing on the surface of the water is cooler, but the room is warmer (80), so the res ends up being 67 to 69. In the winter, the air blowing across the water is 68 degrees (really 69 because the fan and tent add a little heat), but the room is 75 degrees. Again, the water ends up being between 66 and 69 degrees.

My 4" fan that brings air through the sealed closet, via a vent/register in the hallway.








The fan's exhaust runs behind the tent, and into the res.








Air intake, on the other side of the sealed closet








And as you can see, I'm right where I should be, using far less than a chiller. Granted, this works for my environment, and wouldn't work for everyone, but I imagine my house temps are fairly common.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 19, 2019)

hey JSB, haven't seen you around these parts in a bit. how goes it?


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## JSB99 (Mar 19, 2019)

rkymtnman said:


> hey JSB, haven't seen you around these parts in a bit. how goes it?


Everything's good.

Been getting back into recording and mixing. I had given it a break for a few years, but got the itch to pick up the guitar and bass, and start playing again


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## JSB99 (Mar 19, 2019)

Well, looks like I was pushing the girls a little too much, and ended up turning one into a Hermie. It wasn't very far along, so I hope I got it out before any pollination. The others don't show any signs, so I've got my fingers crossed.

This actually makes things easier, and I might even get a better yield. I'm doing a "comb-over" with the other three to fill up the empty space. I'm just doing some LST by tying the branches down. This is going to free up a lot of headroom!


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## JSB99 (Mar 19, 2019)

I resorted to making mini bungee cords so I can just hook the branches onto the net.







Got them tied down. There are a couple more, but they were recently cropped, so I didn't want to add anymore stress to them. The tops are already starting to turn up . I'm really glad I've got the extra room. I've still got a ways to go, and I'd have to constantly be on top of it.


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## Airwalker16 (Mar 20, 2019)

JSB99 said:


> Well, looks like I was pushing the girls a little too much, and ended up turning one into a Hermie. It wasn't very far along, so I hope I got it out before any pollination. The others don't show any signs, so I've got my fingers crossed.
> 
> This actually makes things easier, and I might even get a better yield. I'm doing a "comb-over" with the other three to fill up the empty space. I'm just doing some LST by tying the branches down. This is going to free up a lot of headroom!


Ya you're not using the screen like its supposed to be used. Where it ends up just being there.. rather than controlling the growth with it.


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## JSB99 (Mar 20, 2019)

Airwalker16 said:


> Ya you're not using the screen like its supposed to be used. Where it ends up just being there.. rather than controlling the growth with it.


Yeah, I wasn't really going for a scrog as much as I just wanted to support branches with heavy buds.


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## JSB99 (Mar 29, 2019)

Just did my fan removal, and tied the branches down some more. These buds are going to be huge!!! The SSH colas in the signature block were 8oz each, dried. This batch will most definitely triumph that.

With all the branches pulled forward, there are a lot of exposed bud sites. I've still got around 8 weeks. SSH takes a really long time, but it's so worth it! Awesome strain!













From the side:






Same side, more towards the front:






Other side:


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## Renfro (Mar 29, 2019)

Oh yeah bro, she put the thick stems there to hold some big ass buds. Can't wait to see it all finished.


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## JSB99 (Mar 29, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Oh yeah bro, she put the thick stems there to hold some big ass buds. Can't wait to see it all finished.


I think all the bending and super cropping really built them up. They are dwfidefini the largest stocks I've seen in my hydro grows!


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## Airwalker16 (Mar 29, 2019)

JSB99 said:


> I think all the bending and super cropping really built them up. They are dwfidefini the largest stocks I've seen in my hydro grows!


Wow, really?


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## JSB99 (Mar 29, 2019)

Airwalker16 said:


> Wow, really?


There are stalks larger than my thumb. I'm used to smaller branches that need help being held up. With these, I've been fighting them to keep em bent over. Frickin strong!!


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## JSB99 (Mar 31, 2019)

Just a little bud porn


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## Mellow old School (Apr 1, 2019)

Nice thread mate, really inspiring work, I saw you had some issues back then with leakage, which was fixed of course.

Just a quick thought, hence I have used it with success, how about using these grommets from GHE, there are normally installed in their AeroFlo systems for drainage, but can be used in many other setups, there are for 2 inch pipes.

Then you can avoid these male and female collecters in the boxes...


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## Airwalker16 (Apr 1, 2019)

Mellow old School said:


> Nice thread mate, really inspiring work, I saw you had some issues back then with leakage, which was fixed of course.
> 
> Just a quick thought, hence I have used it with success, how about using these grommets from GHE, there are normally installed in their AeroFlo systems for drainage, but can be used in many other setups, there are for 2 inch pipes.
> 
> Then you can avoid these male and female collecters in the boxes...


Uniseals?


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## Mellow old School (Apr 1, 2019)

Well dont know if they are called that, english not native tongue...


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## JSB99 (Apr 1, 2019)

Mellow old School said:


> Well dont know if they are called that, english not native tongue...


Yeah, they look like uniseals. I was up in the air between uniseals and actual bulkheads, which is what I ultimately ended up going with. I'm sure either would've worked fine though.


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## Mellow old School (Apr 1, 2019)

Ok, the good thing about these uniseals is that you dont have to use any silicone or glue or something nasty that could effect the water...


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## JSB99 (Apr 1, 2019)

Mellow old School said:


> Ok, the good thing about these uniseals is that you dont have to use any silicone or glue or something nasty that could effect the water...


With my bulkheads, sealants aren't needed. Sometimes with DIY bulkheads sealants are needed, but not usually with actual bulkheads. Also, if a sealant is needed, aquarium-safe silicon is safe to use.


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## JSB99 (Apr 11, 2019)

Bud porn ahead...

They're coming along pretty good. I still have a few weeks, to a month to go. The buds are just swelling up


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## JSB99 (Apr 11, 2019)

I was real sloppy with my topping and training this grow. I was in the middle of another big project. I even forgot to do my initial top between the 3rd and 5th set of nodes, when they were smaller. I also didnt scrog, which I really should've. I could've filled out the net in no time with these. I'll still get plenty, I'm sure.


Those branches are still keeping those rubber bands tight! Don't think I'm going to have problems holding up heavy buds.


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## Mellow old School (Apr 11, 2019)

Wow, porn so early in the morning(7.43 am)...can one handle it.

Very nice mate...


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## JSB99 (Apr 12, 2019)

Mellow old School said:


> Wow, porn so early in the morning(7.43 am)...can one handle it.
> 
> Very nice mate...


It's always the right time somewhere, right LOL!


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## JSB99 (Apr 18, 2019)

Towers o' Flowers 
The smell is so thick that I could bottle it up and sell it as Hot Sauce! 

























Even with the weight of the colas, I still have to keep the branches anchored, so they wont reach the hood.






It's pretty dense in there


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## Mellow old School (Apr 19, 2019)

Looking good, ever used jo-jo´s as a supplement for the nets?


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## JSB99 (Apr 19, 2019)

Mellow old School said:


> Looking good, ever used jo-jo´s as a supplement for the nets?


No, never heard of it. My net works really well though, and I can usually salvage it between grows. I use nylon Mason line for the net. Its really durable, and stretches tight.


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## Mellow old School (Apr 19, 2019)

Nets are great yes, thinking about using one this time in my closet, anyways here a picture of the jojo...


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## JSB99 (Apr 19, 2019)

Mellow old School said:


> Nets are great yes, thinking about using one this time in my closet, anyways here a picture of the jojo...View attachment 4320183


That's cool! Maybe I'll go this route. What I really want to do is have two nets, but stringing up another one's a pain! This might be a great alternative!


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## JSB99 (Apr 19, 2019)

Mellow old School said:


> Looking good, ever used jo-jo´s as a supplement for the nets?


I was trying to look these up, but wasn't finding anything relevant. Can you post a link so I can check them out?


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## Mellow old School (Apr 20, 2019)

They are hard to find, luckily I have some therefore I have the name of them which is *Nie-Co-Rol* a Dutch product, here are some US links where you can buy them mate...

https://www.hawthornegc.com/shop/product/nie-co-rol-the-original

http://www.horticulturesource.com/nie-co-rol--p3984

https://hidhut.com/plant-support/nie-co-rol-the-original-100-bag.html

Mind you they are actually pretty expensive in the US, so here is a link to Pflanzburg a German vendor that also send to the US.

https://pflanzburg.de/store/product_info.php?products_id=961

Have a Good 420...


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## Dabhead710 (Apr 20, 2019)

JSB99 said:


> Does anyone know the actual gallons this 27-gallon tote holds? I'm trying to guess the number of gallons for my nutes/pH. Is there a way to determine the number of gallons, besides the obvious "pour _n_-gallon containers of water one at a time and mark the levels"?
> If your still wanting to know how to calculate h20 volume per your container..take total volume % container height =
> Then you take container height minus netpot height or water level height=...
> Then you take that last number x by the 1st so like the 27gal containers with 8" net pots
> ...


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## Dabhead710 (Apr 20, 2019)

Instead of buying hundreds of yoyos and them being everywhere why dont you do a adjustable layered scrog net 2 or 3 layers and problem solved very easily.....


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## Mellow old School (Apr 20, 2019)

*Dabhead710, *yes they might be a tad expensive at 1.10 dollar a piece, but they can be used for years and they are in my experience better and much more flexible and adjustable than a net, not that a net or two isnt good...


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## JSB99 (Apr 20, 2019)

Dabhead710 said:


> Instead of buying hundreds of yoyos and them being everywhere why dont you do a adjustable layered scrog net 2 or 3 layers and problem solved very easily.....View attachment 4320646


That's a great net you built. Mine is a little more simple, in that, I have my pvc ziptied to the posts, directly. The frame adjusts up and down very easily. I do sometimes put up my second net, but I waited a bit too long, and ran out of space. I usually use the second net to support the buds. But these branches are still pulling the hell out of the net, trying to reach the light. They aren't having any issues supporting those buds 

One thing I try to do, is salvage my net, so I don't have to keep stringing it up. It takes a little more work pulling the branches through, but worth it. Is that what you do?


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## Dabhead710 (Apr 20, 2019)

Idk why everyone thinks the diy actual true scrog nets not a fuckn trellis netting big diff....same with the growing styles like scrog is with super cropping lst manifold or mainlined or topped a few times...anyways the nets are not a 1 time use I re use mine all the time and get several grows out of a net before I have to restring it which takes a few min you just have to use the correct string and do it right...as you see my scrog I didnt use screws they suck and it's easier to just keep drilling the hole all the way thru and there you go you dont have to have ur clothes get caught on the screws all the time or hair etc plus the squares are straighter it's a tighter fit and 10000x cleaner too...and I can do several levels too depends on strain and lighting etc too 

Yes I pull the branches in from the middle usually and then thread them out too so as they stretch u just keep weaving them out til ur even canopy...also with the scrogs as the top net is pretty much for keeping the buds upright from the weight thats aboot it and also they have plant yoyos that has 2 hooks ea which would be better but still fuck that plus not everyone can reach the back of their area to do yo yos but it's nothing to slide some pvc into place...I also found a new attachment method for the 2nd net instead of using screws or dowels etc I got these push in pins that has one that goes on the outside and it secures the pin that goes thru they are nice and super easy to remove or adjust. However with the fully adjustable scrogs u HAVE TO USE 3/4 pvc 1/2 does NOT WORK...as u have to have the crosses that will slide into the uprights and the 1" cross to 3/4 pvc works 1/2 with 3/4 cross wont slide thru the pvc......and using braided Mason line and cut with a flame only.......it will last forever and it will not fray either they have it at home depot lowes etc...just dont get the twisted then you will be replacing also wats nice about the scrogs is I can chop the plant down and flip it upside down still in the net or I can cut the limbs off


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## JSB99 (May 1, 2019)

Big Beautiful Buds! These are frickin' heavy! Some of the branches are pushing 3ft, with another foot below the net with some decent smaller buds still to trim!

I'm going to have to grow these again, but with a better plan. I know I could've harvested quite a bit more, with a little more attention.


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## JSB99 (May 1, 2019)

This grow was a single-fill grow, meaning I did not flush a single time, from beginning to end. So, for those wondering how often to flush...none, if you do it right.


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## Mellow old School (May 1, 2019)

Looks good mate, maybe a tip on trimming, I know to each their own, but I have always found it nice to trim all the small buds first hence they are the most tiresome to trim, which then leaves me with only the big buds to trim and they are always fast and easy to trim. A nice way to end ones trim cycle...


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## JSB99 (May 1, 2019)

Mellow old School said:


> Looks good mate, maybe a tip on trimming, I know to each their own, but I have always found it nice to trim all the small buds first hence they are the most tiresome to trim, which then leaves me with only the big buds to trim and they are always fast and easy to trim. A nice way to end ones trim cycle...


I hear ya LOL! I'm going to have to start doing that!


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## JSB99 (May 2, 2019)

The rest...


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## JSB99 (May 2, 2019)

I can almost hear my rack creaking and groaning under the weight LOL! I'm putting that Mason line to the test


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## DaFreak (May 9, 2019)

At one point while doing DWC I got sick of air-pumps and air-stones and remembered a test a guy who owned a o2 meter did with all the "common" type of air-stones they had. What he found was the highest D.O. was when he poured the water into the bucket. So I used a small water pump and some tubing so that the water was constantly getting poured into the rez. It worked wonderfully. Was actually pretty silent too.


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## JSB99 (May 10, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> At one point while doing DWC I got sick of air-pumps and air-stones and remembered a test a guy who owned a o2 meter did with all the "common" type of air-stones they had. What he found was the highest D.O. was when he poured the water into the bucket. So I used a small water pump and some tubing so that the water was constantly getting poured into the rez. It worked wonderfully. Was actually pretty silent too.


Yep, that's called a "waterfall", and is one of the components of an "Undercurrent" DWC. I'm pretty sure it was @rkymtnman who did the DO comparisons. But the waterfall by itself isn't enough to provide DO to the center of the root balls, once the roots get really dense. This is especially true for the plants at the end of the chain, where the current is the weakest. Even though the water may have plenty of dissolved oxygen, the roots can still drown or rot. So, along with the waterfall, you need to have a water pump powerful enough to circulate the total number of gallons in the system, 12 times/hr.

My pump is only powerful enough to circulate the water about half the amount. I could get a larger pump, but the reason I haven't is because larger pumps are going to add more heat to your water, which you want to keep below 70. I also like having redundancy. If either the water pump, or the air pump fails, the other will keep things going until I replace the broken component. Yes, I could just keep a spare water pump on hand, but DWC is very unforgiving. If the water pump were to go out during the night, the roots can drown in the hours it would take to notice the issue. One of the other advantages to using an air pump, either alone, or to supplement the waterfall, is that the DO being delivered to the roots is the same at the last plant, as the first.

I'm able to suppress all the air pump noise to virtually nothing, using dense foam sound isolation corner blocks, and by hanging the pump from ceiling hooks, which prevents any low frequency vibrations in the walls.


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## JSB99 (May 10, 2019)

I thought I'd show how, and why I went through the extra lengths of isolating as much noise as possible.

I mix and record music at home, in my home studio, which is right across he hall from the grow room. My studio is dead silent, especially after I relocated my PCs to a non-adjacent room. In the grow room have 3 inline fans, a 70lpm commercial air pump, and a 400gph water pump, all going at the same time, but the room is virtually silent as soon as the door shuts. Even in the room, it's much quieter than many.

First thing I did was to hang my air pump, and suspend my water pump, so that no vibrations were making it into the walls. I then surrounded my air pump, and a fan I usually have running higher than the others, with dense foam sound isolation wedges, used for bass traps in home studios. If I had bass to trap in the grow room, I would have wedges in each of the eight trihedral corners of the room, where they are most effective. Since I eliminated any bass that would have been caused by the pumps, all I needed to do was surround the air pump with the blocks to absorb the high and mid frequencies. The foam converts absorbed frequencies into heat, but not anything that's noticeable. The water pump is tucked behind the reservoir, and is suspended in air by the pump manifolds, which helps isolate noise from that pump. Because there are a lot of hard surfaces around the pump, I could add padding to capture any reflected waves, but there's not much space, and the pump would probably start heating up. I'm able to keep the air pump at room temperature by having my tent exhaust fan blow on the pump. This really extends the life of the pump, helps keep temps down (especially the air going to the stones), and it allows me to really surround the pump with blocks without worrying about temps.

I've just got the blocks shoved up there, but I plan on cleaning it all up.






Here you can see how I have my exhaust fan blowing on the pump, which is suspended by hooks from the ceiling.






My studio across the hall...I finished building the desks, and setting up the room a couple months ago.






I love my 25" ultrawide monitors! 






Sorry, just wanted to show off one of my hobbies outside the grow room.


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## JSB99 (May 17, 2019)

Got lots of these meaty buds!








Didn't weight it, but it's around 15 jars


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## DaFreak (May 17, 2019)

JSB99 said:


> I thought I'd show how, and why I went through the extra lengths of isolating as much noise as possible.


Very cool, but I would also look into replacing that ventech. My experience they are horribly loud fans.


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## JSB99 (May 17, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> Very cool, but I would also look into replacing that ventech. My experience they are horribly loud fans.


Nah, they aren't too bad, especially with a few steps to quiet the overall noise in the room. Even tho those foam blocks are surrounding the pump, they are actually absorbing sound from the entire room. I have a seal on the room's door, as well as a heavy duty sweep. As soon as I close the door, it's virtually silent.


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## Mellow old School (May 18, 2019)

You cant smoke all that mate, looking good...


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## JSB99 (May 18, 2019)

Mellow old School said:


> You cant smoke all that mate, looking good...


LOL, sounds like a challenge 

I actually like to grow enough to cover two harvests, in case I have a crop failure, or simply want to go somewhere on Vaca.


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## Mellow old School (May 18, 2019)

Thats a good idea, plus you then have smoke at least 3-6 months cured, depending on your lung capacity of course, which in my opinion is worth the wait, in general 3 months cure is what I aim for in the future...


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## JSB99 (May 18, 2019)

Mellow old School said:


> Thats a good idea, plus you then have smoke at least 3-6 months cured, depending on your lung capacity of course, which in my opinion is worth the wait, in general 3 months cure is what I aim for in the future...


Like you, I take curing seriously, and take my time. I usually won't smoke any earlier than three weeks from harvest.


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## JSB99 (May 18, 2019)

DaFreak said:


> Very cool, but I would also look into replacing that ventech. My experience they are horribly loud fans.



I wanted to mention how much of an impact just adding a door seal and sweep has at reducing noise. Short sound waves/high frequencies created by fans, find thier way out through cracks, crevices, and vents. The walls, and even the tent, can contain those frequencies in the room quite a bit, but any place they can make their way out of the room, will be very noticeable. Those higher wavelengths bounce around the room, and amplify quite a bit.

Vents are really bad at noise leaks. For those, sound isolation boxes, and/or insulated duct can be used to cover the vent.

Door seal:






Door sweep:






It is really important to seal as much, and as tight as you can. Any little leak will be heard. The door is more difficult to close, because of the seal, but it's reassuring that the door is closed tight against the seal. This also helps keep bugs out of the room.


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## JSB99 (May 18, 2019)

Just think about how loud a tiny window seal leak, in a car is.


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## JSB99 (Jun 5, 2019)

Got this Jack Herer being groomed for the outside. I'll be moving her out into the yard in about six weeks. I'm trying to get her spreading out wide, so I've got her in a sizable pot. Not sure if it's the same with cannabis, but with trees, the width of the tree is generally the width of the main root structure. So I was thinking this might promote her to grow outwards. I do have a few of the branches anchored down, and have both topped twice, and super cropped.


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## JSB99 (Jun 5, 2019)

Let's fix those colors...


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## JSB99 (Jun 27, 2019)

My big-ass tater cage 

This is my start. I just put her out a few days ago


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## JSB99 (Jul 31, 2019)

Wanted to once again, show how I keep my water nice and chilly, without a chiller. Just blow the air from the vent, on the surface of the water. 














Here are my two Jack Herers, filling up the space of four. I swear these are two different strains. The one on the left is definitely sativa, and is most likely the real Jack, and the other looks more indica.


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## JSB99 (Jul 31, 2019)

The water is actually cooler in the summer. In the summer, the AC air blows onto the water, which is around 60 degrees. In the winter, I use my closet inline fan to draw house air, and blow it onto the water. I usually keep my house around 67 in the winter, which is what blows onto the water. So, in the winter, my water temps stay at 69, and in the summer, it stays at 66. Those temps don't fluctuate at all.


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## PhatNuggz (Aug 1, 2019)

Sorry if I posted this before, but O2grow has models from 1 +++ emitters (one for each bucket)

I finally resolved my root rot issues and have been using only a 2020 O2G for about 6 weeks (no agitation , circulation, or splashing), and it really works

Alas, no cannabis growers are running threads with them, so I had to learn on my own, but in the end what I learned was my root rot issues had nothing to do with the O2G and everything to do with air pumps/stones, although in many past grows air pump/stones served me well


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## JSB99 (Aug 1, 2019)

PhatNuggz said:


> Sorry if I posted this before, but O2grow has models from 1 +++ emitters (one for each bucket)
> 
> I finally resolved my root rot issues and have been using only a 2020 O2G for about 6 weeks (no agitation , circulation, or splashing), and it really works
> 
> Alas, no cannabis growers are running threads with them, so I had to learn on my own, but in the end what I learned was my root rot issues had nothing to do with the O2G and everything to do with air pumps/stones, although in many past grows air pump/stones served me well


Watch your threadjacking, please.


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## JSB99 (Aug 2, 2019)

I'll also mention, as I have before, that this is the original fill. I don't flush at all, unless I smell something funky, which is a good indicator of a problem. My roots are pearly white, with no additives.

Something that I think may be helping is the massive amount of bubbles under each plant. The bubbles have more than enough force to get the roots all spread out. So getting DO to all parts of the roots is effortless. Not sure I could say the same if I was just running an Undercurrent.


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## PhatNuggz (Aug 4, 2019)

JSB99 said:


> Watch your threadjacking, please.


Sorry. Not running a grow here, but thought you would like to know


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 14, 2019)

Just some pics of my current grow. On the left is Jack Herer, and on the right is some mystery indica, that was also supposed to be a JH.


























Once again, I've got my hood strapped to the top poles. I just strap the yo-yos around the vents, then I can ratchet the hood up high, easily.














66 degrees, with no chiller! I wonder if anyone else did this with theirs. If so, give me some feedback. It's such an easy way to keep the water cool.


----------



## Mass Medicinals (Aug 15, 2019)

Lookinng Great @JSB99 

what strain(s) are you running in the tent currently?


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 15, 2019)

Mass Medicinals said:


> Lookinng Great @JSB99
> 
> what strain(s) are you running in the tent currently?


 On the left is Jack Herer, and on the right is some mystery indica, that was also supposed to be a JH.

It's been a while. How have your grows been going? Getting the hang of things?


----------



## Mass Medicinals (Aug 16, 2019)

We are taking a break from grows due to a need vs. electrical costs and free time. Last harvest was Nov2018. 
Will go back when supplies start to get into the red zone  

Ironically we've been helping a couple friends through their first runs. Kind of like it. We get to be involved with a multiple grows, and suggest what they should do at each new development. No real grunt work, the back and joints are certainly happy with this change. Also we get to see different strains & grow tech this way.

It's great to drop into this thread after a decent break to find you're still finding ways to improve an already impressive grow-op.


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## JSB99 (Aug 16, 2019)

Mass Medicinals said:


> We are taking a break from grows due to a need vs. electrical costs and free time. Last harvest was Nov2018.
> Will go back when supplies start to get into the red zone
> 
> Ironically we've been helping a couple friends through their first runs. Kind of like it. We get to be involved with a multiple grows, and suggest what they should do at each new development. No real grunt work, the back and joints are certainly happy with this change. Also we get to see different strains & grow tech this way.
> ...


Funny how the fine print of how easy growing weed is, always seems to get glossed over. It may or may not be easy, but it's definitely costly, time consuming, and stressful at times. After growing for a bit, people realize that buying over growing, isn't such a bad option


----------



## JSB99 (Aug 26, 2019)

Just some pics of my current grow. Same two, Jack Herer on the left, and a mystery hybrid on the right. I've got at least a couple weeks. Got some pretty meaty buds growing!


----------



## JSB99 (Sep 2, 2019)

Almost ready. Couple more weeks. These buds are pretty massive. Outgrew my tent again LOL! So, I'm bleaching a few of the tallest colas under the hood. But it's minimal.


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## hexthat (Sep 2, 2019)

bud is looking great, nice work


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## Hydrowannabe (Sep 4, 2019)

literally have my mouth watering. this was an inspiring thread to sift through this morning.


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## JSB99 (Sep 4, 2019)

Hydrowannabe said:


> literally have my mouth watering. this was an inspiring thread to sift through this morning.


So glad to hear that . If you have any questions, let me know


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## Hydrowannabe (Sep 4, 2019)

for sure, will do. keep the good cannabis flowing . thanks for sharing this btw


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## JSB99 (Sep 8, 2019)

Anyone think snipping the top buds that are bleaching, will effect anything? I've still got about a week.


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## JSB99 (Sep 10, 2019)

Mmmmmmm...tasty . This grow's turning out really good!

I'm thinking a couple more days.


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## Norville Rogers (Sep 18, 2019)

I just wanted to say thank you for this thread. I'm starting week 3 of flower in my first ever grow and was starting to plan my next while dealing with current problems as they arise. I find alot of ideas i get sound good on paper theoretically but as i try them i realize how silly or inefficient the approach was, but am like you where i like to tinker. The good news is once you have certain parts there's lot's of possibilities to experiment. I spent the last 2 days reading this whole thread and you have covered every silly little pipe dream i could think of to try and have taught me alot of what's feasible within my budget. You've basically outlined a diy approach for many aspects of growing that involve parts and construction for noobs like me that can't afford things unless they will work. Growing weed i've found is just applying a little basic science here and there and learning how to read your plants. The art of actually GROWING weed involves mental gymnastics figuring out what configuration will work for you to make it less of a chore, and that's where this thread shines. Your "for noobs" addendums help me understand your reasoning also. You deserve good crops for the ammount of work you put in to them, and the results have reflected that. I hope you never get bugs, but if you do i bet i'd laugh at the things you dream up to keep them at bay (pvc somehow? lol). The 1 thing that surprised me that i don't think you added to your setup was a venturi from the top of your return line to the res (or stirring pump); i thought they were a cheap way to create micro bubbles with the waterfall effect.


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## JSB99 (Sep 19, 2019)

Norville Rogers said:


> I just wanted to say thank you for this thread. I'm starting week 3 of flower in my first ever grow and was starting to plan my next while dealing with current problems as they arise. I find alot of ideas i get sound good on paper theoretically but as i try them i realize how silly or inefficient the approach was, but am like you where i like to tinker. The good news is once you have certain parts there's lot's of possibilities to experiment. I spent the last 2 days reading this whole thread and you have covered every silly little pipe dream i could think of to try and have taught me alot of what's feasible within my budget. You've basically outlined a diy approach for many aspects of growing that involve parts and construction for noobs like me that can't afford things unless they will work. Growing weed i've found is just applying a little basic science here and there and learning how to read your plants. The art of actually GROWING weed involves mental gymnastics figuring out what configuration will work for you to make it less of a chore, and that's where this thread shines. Your "for noobs" addendums help me understand your reasoning also. You deserve good crops for the ammount of work you put in to them, and the results have reflected that. I hope you never get bugs, but if you do i bet i'd laugh at the things you dream up to keep them at bay (pvc somehow? lol). The 1 thing that surprised me that i don't think you added to your setup was a venturi from the top of your return line to the res (or stirring pump); i thought they were a cheap way to create micro bubbles with the waterfall effect.


Thanks a lot, I appreciate the compliments!

I went through a whole bunch of experiments, more than 10 years ago, and had fun. But I took several years off before getting back into it. My goal with this build was to design it to run, with as little maintenance as possible, and run reliably to where I didn't have to Jerry-rig everything, because I didn't account for things. I was through tinkering . Most days I spend less than a couple minutes in my room, and I don't have to make many adjustments throughout the grow.

Anyways, I wanted to help some new growers avoid some of the pains and mistakes that we all make when we first start, as well as get feedback from other experienced growers. Everything I learned about growing, came from RIU, and I wanted to pay the knowledge forward 

I'm just starting to trim, and the colas are massive! I'll post some pics in a while.

Good grows to you too, my friend


----------



## JSB99 (Sep 19, 2019)

Norville Rogers said:


> I just wanted to say thank you for this thread. I'm starting week 3 of flower in my first ever grow and was starting to plan my next while dealing with current problems as they arise. I find alot of ideas i get sound good on paper theoretically but as i try them i realize how silly or inefficient the approach was, but am like you where i like to tinker. The good news is once you have certain parts there's lot's of possibilities to experiment. I spent the last 2 days reading this whole thread and you have covered every silly little pipe dream i could think of to try and have taught me alot of what's feasible within my budget. You've basically outlined a diy approach for many aspects of growing that involve parts and construction for noobs like me that can't afford things unless they will work. Growing weed i've found is just applying a little basic science here and there and learning how to read your plants. The art of actually GROWING weed involves mental gymnastics figuring out what configuration will work for you to make it less of a chore, and that's where this thread shines. Your "for noobs" addendums help me understand your reasoning also. You deserve good crops for the ammount of work you put in to them, and the results have reflected that. I hope you never get bugs, but if you do i bet i'd laugh at the things you dream up to keep them at bay (pvc somehow? lol). The 1 thing that surprised me that i don't think you added to your setup was a venturi from the top of your return line to the res (or stirring pump); i thought they were a cheap way to create micro bubbles with the waterfall effect.


Also, I didn't have a need for a Venturi. The amount of dissolved oxygen I'm providing is far more than what is needed, with the air pump, and waterfall. It wouldn't have hurt anything, but it wouldn't have gained anything.

With the stones directly below each root ball, the roots spread way out from the center, and the bubbles flow right through them to the surface. Lots of DO


----------



## JSB99 (Sep 19, 2019)

One down, one to go. All the buds on these branches are rock solid!


----------



## JSB99 (Sep 20, 2019)

Second one done. The first was the Jack Herer. This is a mystery hybrid that was supposed to be another JH. Not disappointed at all. I think it yielded a bit more than the JH. All the buds are dense and hard. I tossed anything remotely resembling larf.













Not bad for two plants...


----------



## jamers (Oct 18, 2019)

Amazing buds, thanks for sharing. What was the dried weight? I am in the process of setting up my rdwc system after a 5 year hiatus. Can’t wait !


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## JSB99 (Oct 18, 2019)

jamers said:


> Amazing buds, thanks for sharing. What was the dried weight? I am in the process of setting up my rdwc system after a 5 year hiatus. Can’t wait !


Thx 

I stopped weighing a while ago. I usually get around 24 - 28 oz. I could probably squeeze a few more oz out of my yields, but not without some extra time and work.


----------



## jamers (Oct 21, 2019)

Excellent was just curious. Thanks for posting all this. I had been looking at my dusty rdwc system that has been sitting idle for 5 years. Read this whole thread and started setting it up


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## JSB99 (Nov 1, 2019)

jamers said:


> Excellent was just curious. Thanks for posting all this. I had been looking at my dusty rdwc system that has been sitting idle for 5 years. Read this whole thread and started setting it up


It's a lot of fun, but an important part of DWC for me, is the ability to really dial things in, and see the results of adjustments very quickly. But, it's only fun if you're not having to fix things all the time, and constantly chase leaks. Plan a rock-solid system from the start, and the rest will be smooth sailing 

PS: one of the most important things I did with mine, to avoid leaks and hassles, is to use actual bulkheads, and the 27-gallon HDX totes.


----------



## jamers (Nov 1, 2019)

Nice bulkheads def the way to go. I use the 27 gallon tote as my res and these square buckets with bulkheads. The plastic isn’t great on the white buckets and I have had to repair some with g flex epoxy, but other than that it has worked great in the past. Happy growing mate


----------



## JSB99 (Nov 3, 2019)

jamers said:


> View attachment 4415418
> Nice bulkheads def the way to go. I use the 27 gallon tote as my res and these square buckets with bulkheads. The plastic isn’t great on the white buckets and I have had to repair some with g flex epoxy, but other than that it has worked great in the past. Happy growing mate


Those buckets should work great. I used the totes to hold more water in the system, but as far as growing, they'd probably do about the same.

You might want to go larger on the pipes/tubes, to avoid roots clogging them up. I use 2" pipe, which is the biggest size before prices jump substantially. I've never had a problem with the roots. Although, having larger containers might be helping.


----------



## Renfro (Nov 8, 2019)

Those returns are pretty small. Roots will plug them frequently causing overflows.

2 inch is minimum IMO, 3 inch better.


----------



## PhatNuggz (Nov 8, 2019)

Some of the best results I had was top feeding with Hydro Halo drip rings, except the ring holes ket getting clogged with algae

this is on my short list to try









AirCube Active Oxygen 6 Site Grow Cubes


AirCube Active Oxygen 6 Site Bucket System is with proprietary fabric pot inserts, is the only way to air prune your roots, resulting in a massive root system.




growace.com


----------



## 2com (Jan 24, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> I'm checking out the odd cola, and it smells like it's already drying and curing. It has that cut grass smell to it. There's another cola starting to look similar, but for the most part, the rest look and smell normal.





JSB99 said:


> Got an IR gun, and the temps were always between 75 and 79. The other colas are fine, so who knows. They don't smell rotten, more of a cut grass kind of smell. It's almost like they finished early and started to go bad. Thankfully it's isolated


I somewhat recently saw the _exact_ same thing you're describing It was pretty bizarre. It was like two or three branches were already drying, on the plant. That smell, and appearance. They were removed, they didn't appear to be "rotting" though. Also, I think it was triggered by the first 'flushing', and reduction of nutrients after that.



coreywebster said:


> Well that's good to know its not rot. Last thing anyone wants at this point.
> Im only guessing here but somethings stopping nutrients getting to that part of the plant. A bit of damage to the roots somehow? or a branch or just a cold spot in the corner of your res? I imaging you would of seen something similar before if that were the case though.
> Either way its close to the end so it may just be a mystery that goes unsolved.
> Damn fine plant pics man. Worthy of a breeders catalogue.


Interesting points, and I was considering similar things too.


----------



## 2com (Jan 24, 2020)

Dabhead710 said:


> also I have read cvpvc grey is best for them sealing together as they are tapered and the pvc is not which maybe why your having leaking issues


Yup. It's the electrical PVC conduit fittings that have straight thread, plumbing PVC has tapered thread, iirc, for water tightness.


----------



## 2com (Jan 24, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> Just some pics of my current grow. Same two, Jack Herer on the left, and a mystery hybrid on the right. I've got at least a couple weeks. Got some pretty meaty buds growing!


Good job, man. Nice grow. Really neat, organized setup too. I like your recording area as well.


----------



## OldMedUser (Jan 24, 2020)

PhatNuggz said:


> Some of the best results I had was top feeding with Hydro Halo drip rings, except the ring holes ket getting clogged with algae
> 
> this is on my short list to try
> 
> ...


That's just a 6 pot expansion kit. What would that cost for the full monty with pumps, (air and water), controller reservoir etc ?


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## JSB99 (Feb 12, 2020)

Grow Room v2:

I had to take everything down a couple months ago, and thought I'd switch to led, as well as rebuild everything. Pipes and totes are cheap, and bulkhead holes are easy to cut with a jigsaw and a Dremel. 

The pipes are all welded, but I have to rebuild my pump output manifold.

New spill tray, big enough to hold more water than the system:






With the pond liner. I'll be putting a strip of wood on top of the spill tray frame to secure the liner, plus it'll look better






Laying things out













All welded up and ready for a wet test...as soon as I have a way to drain it. 



























Broke down all my inline fans, and cleaned them.


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## JSB99 (Feb 20, 2020)

Slowly getting there...







I'll be replacing my pump with an Alita 40 or 60, haven't decided yet. I'm only using four stones, but I want an abundance of bubbles. Anyone want to chime in?







Keeping things nice and neat...








Just started some White Widow







Starting seeds in my cloner, using Rapid Rooters







I chopped off the bottom of the cloner net pots, and the remaining strips grip the rooters, regardless of the shape or size.


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## Keesje (Feb 20, 2020)

If you want more bubbles on a wide spread surface, you could maybe use some kind of tube


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## 2com (Feb 21, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> I'll be replacing my pump with an Alita 40 or 60, haven't decided yet.


You definitely did some research, I'd say. Alita pumps are real nice. I don't have experience with a model that large, but they're great.

I know this part probably help, but just before the last time I set up an rdwc I stopped using air stones - and used waterfall(s). I tried many; cheap ones that disintegrate, to micro pore top end ones (which make nice small bubbles). I still have the micro pore ones actually, they're pretty good. It's been a while since I've looked into that/them.

You're setup is coming along, and looks very neat and tidy. Sweet.


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## JSB99 (Feb 21, 2020)

Keesje said:


> If you want more bubbles on a wide spread surface, you could maybe use some kind of tube
> 
> View attachment 4484772


I actually like using the stones because I can put one beneath each root mass, and the bubbles make the roots spread out. The result is that all the roots, no matter how dense they would normally get, receive an abundance of bubbles.


----------



## JSB99 (Feb 21, 2020)

2com said:


> You definitely did some research, I'd say. Alita pumps are real nice. I don't have experience with a model that large, but they're great.
> 
> I know this part probably help, but just before the last time I set up an rdwc I stopped using air stones - and used waterfall(s). I tried many; cheap ones that disintegrate, to micro pore top end ones (which make nice small bubbles). I still have the micro pore ones actually, they're pretty good. It's been a while since I've looked into that/them.
> 
> You're setup is coming along, and looks very neat and tidy. Sweet.


I like using stones, as opposed to just using a waterfall. I believe they are much more effective at providing DO to all the roots. Doing this also means I don't have to use a big water pump, which adds heat to the water. Undercurrent is a cool idea and all, but I'm not convinced that it evenly provides DO to all plants as well as stones placed directly under each one.


----------



## 2com (Feb 21, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> I like using stones, as opposed to just using a waterfall. I believe they are much more effective at providing DO to all the roots. Doing this also means I don't have to use a big water pump, which adds heat to the water. Undercurrent is a cool idea and all, but I'm not convinced that it evenly provides DO to all plants as well as stones placed directly under each one.


I didn't realize this _wasn't_ undercurrent, and just straight DWC.
The main thing I liked and used R-DWC for was having a control bucket/res for easy measurements, additions, changes, and constant mixing of the solution. And even being able to have that control/res outside of the room/tent or whatever.
DC water pumps are extremely low power consumption compared to mag-drive/similar and barely heat up the water at all, nowhere near the standard mag-drive (like danner, etc) style ones do. Same reason I used diaphragm styles air pumps instead of piston style, heat mainly.

There was and probably still is a thread at ICmag (biobuckets), one singular waterfall, at the res - no other aeration at all from what I remember. Great results, no issues, I build a few.
Now that I know about ORP meters I'm very curious to actually test some of this stuff out because I'm yet to see someone quantify DO from either or, though I haven't looked in a pretty long time...long time. I bet the aquarists have though.


----------



## JSB99 (Feb 21, 2020)

2com said:


> I didn't realize this _wasn't_ undercurrent, and just straight DWC.
> The main thing I liked and used R-DWC for was having a control bucket/res for easy measurements, additions, changes, and constant mixing of the solution. And even being able to have that control/res outside of the room/tent or whatever.
> DC water pumps are extremely low power consumption compared to mag-drive/similar and barely heat up the water at all, nowhere near the standard mag-drive (like danner, etc) style ones do. Same reason I used diaphragm styles air pumps instead of piston style, heat mainly.
> 
> ...


Originally, I was going to go Undercurrent, but decided just to do an RDWC. My pump is only about 1/3 the size that would qualify as UC. But even with the right sized pump, I'm still not convinced DO would make it through the root masses as well as air stones. Especially the last roots in the chain, when momentum has been lost by the previous root balls. Not to mention that with the high current of a UC, roots can be drawn into the pipes.


----------



## JSB99 (Feb 21, 2020)

2com said:


> I didn't realize this _wasn't_ undercurrent, and just straight DWC.
> The main thing I liked and used R-DWC for was having a control bucket/res for easy measurements, additions, changes, and constant mixing of the solution. And even being able to have that control/res outside of the room/tent or whatever.
> DC water pumps are extremely low power consumption compared to mag-drive/similar and barely heat up the water at all, nowhere near the standard mag-drive (like danner, etc) style ones do. Same reason I used diaphragm styles air pumps instead of piston style, heat mainly.
> 
> ...


Forgot to say that this IS an RDWC. The controller is the one with the yellow lid, where the pump manifolds are.


----------



## 2com (Feb 21, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> Forgot to say that this IS an RDWC. The controller is the one with the yellow lid, where the pump manifolds are.


Oh...well, to me a recirculating deep water culture system, where the water is being moved and circulating in this way (like yours) _is_ an "undercurrent" system. Haha.

The last I remember looking into R/DWC things, which was a while ago, one topic was DO. And a question was how well do 'bubbles' actually aerate or impart oxygen into the water on their short travel upwards. And the answer, from what I remember, was not very well/very much, and that it was the surface agitation doing more of the gas exchange - it happens at the surface. Even with "very small" or small(er) bubbles, like from the 'fancy micropore air stones, it wasn't as effective as the actual agitating of the surface was (which air stones do, obviously).

But that's just floating around in my head, from memory. And clearly air stones'll work, no doubt.
When I mentioned water fall, in a system exactly like this, I'd have one going to _each plant site, _not just the controller/res. And now that I think of it, the biobuckets I reference had a "feed line" that went to each bucket as well.

Looking forward to seeing your system up and running, dude. It's gonna be dope.

Just chatting about it makes me wanna RDWC, and I've been super interested in getting a DO/ORP meter as well - curiosity.


----------



## JSB99 (Feb 21, 2020)

2com said:


> Oh...well, to me a recirculating deep water culture system, where the water is being moved and circulating in this way (like yours) _is_ an "undercurrent" system. Haha


We could probably call it a "hybrid", because I do have a waterfall going into the controller 

From what I learned about UC is that, at a minimum, you need a pump capable of circulating the total gallons in the system a total 9f 12 times an hour. So, if a system has a total of 100 gallons, a 1200gph pump would be needed. Reason being, enough flow is created to get dissolved oxygen to the dense part of the roots. 

And yeah, just chatting


----------



## JSB99 (Feb 21, 2020)

2com said:


> Looking forward to seeing your system up and running, dude. It's gonna be dope.


Thanks dude!

This is actually fairly identical to the system I had running, earlier in this thread. But now, I'm going tentless, and switching from 1000w EH hps, to 4 x QB96 v2s. I also got new totes and pipes.


----------



## Keesje (Feb 21, 2020)

2com said:


> The last I remember looking into R/DWC things, which was a while ago, one topic was DO. And a question was how well do 'bubbles' actually aerate or impart oxygen into the water on their short travel upwards. And the answer, from what I remember, was not very well/very much, and that it was the surface agitation doing more of the gas exchange - it happens at the surface. Even with "very small" or small(er) bubbles, like from the 'fancy micropore air stones, it wasn't as effective as the actual agitating of the surface was (which air stones do, obviously).


You are right here.

A benefit of the bubbles can be that if you place them under the rootball as @JSB99 describes, that the bubbles kind of agitate the rootball.
In this way water with DO comes inside the sometimes dense rootball. 
So it is not the O2 inside the bubbles that does the work, but the bubbles just make the rootball wiggle.


----------



## JSB99 (Feb 21, 2020)

Keesje said:


> You are right here.
> 
> A benefit of the bubbles can be that if you place them under the rootball as @JSB99 describes, that the bubbles kind of agitate the rootball.
> In this way water with DO comes inside the sometimes dense rootball.
> So it is not the O2 inside the bubbles that does the work, but the bubbles just make the rootball wiggle.


Yep, the bubbles make the roots spread out, so it's easier for DO to get to what would normally be a dense root ball.


----------



## Southside112 (Feb 23, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> It's a lot of fun, but an important part of DWC for me, is the ability to really dial things in, and see the results of adjustments very quickly. But, it's only fun if you're not having to fix things all the time, and constantly chase leaks. Plan a rock-solid system from the start, and the rest will be smooth sailing
> 
> PS: one of the most important things I did with mine, to avoid leaks and hassles, is to use actual bulkheads, and the 27-gallon HDX totes.


Couldn't agree more. HDX totes and bulkheads for
The win. No leaks or issues.


----------



## Southside112 (Feb 23, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> Anyone think snipping the top buds that are bleaching, will effect anything? I've still got about a week.


You could monster crop them. Break them over. Just watch for bud rot on the underside of the monster cropped tops.


----------



## 2com (Feb 24, 2020)

@JSB99 Are you using a chiller, I forget.


----------



## JSB99 (Feb 24, 2020)

No. I use either my vent air, or air from another room, and have it blow on the water in the reservoir. Temps stay between 67 and 69.

Check out my thread...




__





JB's Killer, No-Chiller Eperiment


I refuse to get a chiller, but I'm determined to keep my water temps down. Last few hydro grows I used frozen jugs to keep temps in check, and it worked great. However, it's kind of a pain. I also had a small fan blowing across the surface, which also helped keep temps down via, evaporative...



www.rollitup.org


----------



## Rdot03 (Feb 25, 2020)

I just recently built my 1st rdwc with waterfalls in each tote. I read online with a do meter 8 was a decent number for water at 68 degrees. I got a meter from work and my readings were 7.8 in res and 7.7 at last tote. I also read it's more about surface agitation more than anything, and so far everything seems pretty good.


----------



## JSB99 (Feb 25, 2020)

Southside112 said:


> Couldn't agree more. HDX totes and bulkheads for
> The win. No leaks or issues. View attachment 4487401


Look at those big ol' fans! Looking good!


----------



## Tmoney83 (Mar 4, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> Using the "6-P's Method" I learned in the Army, a while back, to build my system/room...
> 
> 6-P's:
> Proper
> ...


Reading this made me literally LOL. Fellow Army and preach the 6 P's to everyone! Lol


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 4, 2020)

Since I rebuilt my room, I had to find a new home for my 70lpm commercial air pump.

This is how I keep that loud beast silent. I swear I can only really hear it when I open the door. Even then, the pump isn't any louder than the fans.



http://imgur.com/a/F2fPUqD




http://imgur.com/a/CK67U6I


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 4, 2020)

Since I'm only using the hps temporarily, until I get my QBs, I'm no longer drawing air for the hood from underneath the house. In this setup, what I like to do is add a short length of flexible duct to the intake. I then loop it so the opening is drawing air from right under the hood. This really helps control temps at the canopy, and it helps quite a bit with noise reduction.



http://imgur.com/a/yXPhOcU


----------



## fragileassassin (Mar 4, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> Since I rebuilt my room, I had to find a new home for my 70lpm commercial air pump.
> 
> This is how I keep that loud beast silent. I swear I can only really hear it when I open the door. Even then, the pump isn't any louder than the fans.
> 
> ...


What brand is it? I have a 110lpm active aqua one hanging in my tent and you cant hear it with the tent zipped up.


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 4, 2020)

fragileassassin said:


> What brand is it? I have a 110lpm active aqua one hanging in my tent and you cant hear it with the tent zipped up.


Mine's an Active Aqua as well


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 4, 2020)

fragileassassin said:


> What brand is it? I have a 110lpm active aqua one hanging in my tent and you cant hear it with the tent zipped up.


I'm having a little trouble believing you can't hear your pump outside the tent.


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 5, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> I'm having a little trouble believing you can't hear your pump outside the tent.


I stand corrected LOL!


----------



## fragileassassin (Mar 5, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> I stand corrected LOL!


I hope it didnt come across dickish, I didnt mean for it to. 
I was honestly very very surprised with how quiet these big pumps are.


----------



## JSB99 (Mar 5, 2020)

fragileassassin said:


> I hope it didnt come across dickish, I didnt mean for it to.
> I was honestly very very surprised with how quiet these big pumps are.


Nah, not at all. I was worried I came off that way LOL!


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## fragileassassin (Mar 5, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> Nah, not at all. I was worried I came off that way LOL!


if it helps, i wouldnt believe me either.


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## Renfro (Mar 7, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> I'm having a little trouble believing you can't hear your pump outside the tent.


I have one that was sitting on a shelf, noisy as fuck, hung it and now it's silent as fuck.


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## JSB99 (Mar 29, 2020)

I'm repurposing my old tent. I'm using the bottom half of the frame for my nets, and secured some mylar from the tent. It makes a huge difference.



http://imgur.com/FtV3kpX




http://imgur.com/wpo1FZq




http://imgur.com/wX8iI73


Next I'm going to be replacing the existing ducting going from the hood to the fan, then to the ceiling with insulated ducting, since I'll be adding a 600w hood for suplimental lighting, so there's going to be some extra heat to account for. Using insulated ducting makes a huge difference. Feel yours, and if it's really warm/hot, it's just adding heat that you have to right.



http://imgur.com/D508HxO


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## JSB99 (Apr 2, 2020)

Added my extra 600w hood. Makes a big difference on the footprint! It's probably going to be near the end of this grow before I get the QBs, so I'm just going to be using this setup till the end.



http://imgur.com/h9sxEsF


Swapped out the existing duct for insulated. With the new duct in place, the temps barely flex, with the addition of the 600w. The 6" fan is usually set between 10% and 40%, depending.


http://imgur.com/FAcYvPw


I've got the 600w on another circuit (extension cord running across the mylar). Running it with the 1k trips the AHCI breaker. The one on the wall is tapped into the kitchen, on the other side of the wall.


http://imgur.com/iY1nIyj


I've got a 6" fan mounted to the wall, below the pump and ballasts. It really helps dissipate the standing heat, which I would think helps keep the room cooler. I mentioned it earlier, but I can't emphasize how important it is to clean the fan blades, and cage, often. Like every few weeks, or even more if you're in a dusty environment. It doesn't take much dust buildup at all, to get these fans blowing nothing. It's so simple to pop off the front cage, and blades.


http://imgur.com/SUxVQ4S


White Widow, around a week and a half into flower. I don't do a real SCROG. I use the nets to spread out the branches, as well as holding a good portion below the net. But I don't keep tucking the branches below the net. I let everything grow up from there, and then I'll have another net at the top, to hold the colas up. I may have to go a few inches down.


http://imgur.com/LrqexV3


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## Mr_Manny_D (Apr 21, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> Using the "6-P's Method" I learned in the Army, a while back, to build my system/room...
> 
> 6-P's:
> Proper
> ...


Hey Hey....I've got the same 2 inch fittings. Any leak issues? Did you use gaskets or O rings?


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## JSB99 (Apr 22, 2020)

Mr_Manny_D said:


> Hey Hey....I've got the same 2 inch fittings. Any leak issues? Did you use gaskets or O rings?


Nope, no problems. The 2" bulkheads that come with gaskets, seals without having to use any sealant or silicon.


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## JSB99 (Apr 30, 2020)

White Widow coming along nicely

_


http://imgur.com/ByxLCQ0




http://imgur.com/4SFFBdi




http://imgur.com/1ExMIls

_


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## Mr_Manny_D (Apr 30, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> White Widow coming along nicely
> 
> _
> 
> ...


What spacing did you use between trellis levels? Looks great.


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## JSB99 (May 1, 2020)

Mr_Manny_D said:


> What spacing did you use between trellis levels? Looks great.


Thanks. They're round 14" apart.


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## JSB99 (May 1, 2020)

Mr_Manny_D said:


> What spacing did you use between trellis levels? Looks great.


Maybe more like 16" to 18"


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## JSB99 (May 13, 2020)

If I can't smell things in here, I definitely have the virus


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## JSB99 (May 22, 2020)

Getting frosty


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## Mellow old School (May 22, 2020)

Continuesly down right nice mate, have a good weekend...


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## Rello365 (May 24, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> Not bad for a day's work...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I need this design do you have a list of everything I might need and is it possible to make it 5 plants other than 4


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## Rello365 (May 24, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> Getting frosty
> 
> View attachment 4573766
> 
> ...


Did you have to use a chiller


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## JSB99 (May 26, 2020)

Rello365 said:


> I need this design do you have a list of everything I might need and is it possible to make it 5 plants other than 4


Just start at the beginning of this thread. I got through every step, with lots of pics and details. 

Another great site is the growweedeasy site


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## JSB99 (May 26, 2020)

Rello365 said:


> Did you have to use a chiller


No, I use the house air to keep it at 68 degrees. Very easy to do, and very inexpensive.

See my "killer no-chiller" post




__





JB's Killer, No-Chiller Eperiment


I refuse to get a chiller, but I'm determined to keep my water temps down. Last few hydro grows I used frozen jugs to keep temps in check, and it worked great. However, it's kind of a pain. I also had a small fan blowing across the surface, which also helped keep temps down via, evaporative...



rollitup.org


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## Rello365 (May 26, 2020)

JSB99 said:


> No, I use the house air to keep it at 68 degrees. Very easy to do, and very inexpensive.
> 
> See my "killer no-chiller" post
> 
> ...


Okay I will


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## JSB99 (May 31, 2020)

Almost there. Maybe another week.


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## JSB99 (Jun 14, 2020)

The odd one in the corner, which ended up producing enormous buds, was harvested last week. The three remaining White Widow are taking their time, but are getting really close. I'd say within the next few days.


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## JSB99 (Jul 7, 2020)

I wanted to show some more pics of how I repurposed my old tent. 

Blocking light from getting into the containers can be a bitch. Since tent material is lightproof to begin with, and has a reflective mylar side, I thought it'd work good on top of the totes. It works even better than I thought. Also, my reservoir ended up with some black mold, and other nasty stuff. I was using a tent previously, and my reservoir was in a dark corner. Now that I'm growing in the open, I forgot to protect the reservoir from light. Luckily I didn't have any issues, but this time I'm taking steps to prevent that. Again, using my old tent.






Alsoz finally decided to use actual blackout window film, rather than stapling up sheets of black poly. This works really well, especially since the other side is white, and doesn't get hot with the sun hitting it full on for most of the day. Used black Gorilla tape to cover up the edges of the window film.


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## Mr_Manny_D (Jul 7, 2020)

2com said:


> I didn't realize this _wasn't_ undercurrent, and just straight DWC.
> The main thing I liked and used R-DWC for was having a control bucket/res for easy measurements, additions, changes, and constant mixing of the solution. And even being able to have that control/res outside of the room/tent or whatever.
> DC water pumps are extremely low power consumption compared to mag-drive/similar and barely heat up the water at all, nowhere near the standard mag-drive (like danner, etc) style ones do. Same reason I used diaphragm styles air pumps instead of piston style, heat mainly.
> 
> ...


This looks like a RDWC system to me.


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## JSB99 (Jan 4, 2021)

Hey everyone, checking back in. I took a break from growing to work on a few other projects. I built a pretty massive (and costly) led light(s), but never got a chance to finish a grow under them.

My new setup is pretty damn cool! The lights have a 5x5 footprint, which I wanted to make up for not having reflective tent walls. The frames I built are super light, especially since the drivers are mounted on the wall, where a fan blows on them to keep 'em cool. I blacked out my lids, because I'm not concerned about heat. I have to run a small heater in there to warm up the room.

All these lights are overkill for these little ones, even when dimmed. After these pics, I raised one light and moved the other light to the center set of ceiling hooks. The three pairs of hooks makes it so versatile.




I LOVE how I can hang these to the side when I want to get in there and work! 






The single light is much more efficient than running both. I've got it dimmed to around 25k lumins. When I crank it up, I get around 45k @ 18" to 24". 




Other light hung out of the way. I'm also still feeding air to my controller, which keeps the water at 69°. No chiller needed 


Don't really need my exhaust fan just yet. The only reason I'll run it is to filter the air during flowering, which I'll probably vent the exhaust in the room rather than the attic.


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## rkymtnman (Jan 4, 2021)

a blast from the past!!

love the new light.
can you post component list? i'm mostly curious about everything other than the QBs.


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## JSB99 (Jan 4, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> a blast from the past!!
> 
> love the new light.
> can you post component list? i'm mostly curious about everything other than the QBs.


@andymex was a tremendous help with this, and put this parts list together for a $1,000 budget. I think in the end I was probably around $1,200, with all the hardware.

16 qb 132 3000k
2 hlg 480h c1750a
20 of these diodes https://www.rapidled.com/solderless-semileds-ultra-violet-uva-led-390-400nm/
2 of these drivers https://www.rapidled.com/mean-well-lpc-35-700-constant-current-driver/

Here are some pics of the frame I built. Its very strong and very light. I can carry each with one hand. On top of that, it takes less material to build, so its cheaper. Its just a 4' square bar, and angle iron (both at Lowe's, HD, or most hardware stores.) And yeah, I know its not angle "iron", but thats what we've always called it LOL!

Feel free to copy my design and post pics, and ask questions, of course


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## JSB99 (Jan 4, 2021)

its also very balanced and stable when hanging


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## JSB99 (Jan 4, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> a blast from the past!!


How ya been. Anything interesting happen in 2020 lol! Thank God for weed, eh!


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## rkymtnman (Jan 4, 2021)

JSB99 said:


> How ya been. Anything interesting happen in 2020 lol! Thank God for weed, eh!


good man, thanks. not much happening here: becoming more of a hermit!! lol. 

so those blue/uva leds are just hard wired together along the center mast of the frame?? why did you go with blue? i have a similar array of 4000k qbs but i went with 2 of the growmaus far red pucks in the middle. but blue and or uvb in the middle is what i'm thinking about doing next. the far red was my attempt at the Emerson effect along with the QBs


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## JSB99 (Jan 4, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> good man, thanks. not much happening here: becoming more of a hermit!! lol.
> 
> so those blue/uva leds are just hard wired together along the center mast of the frame?? why did you go with blue? i have a similar array of 4000k qbs but i went with 2 of the growmaus far red pucks in the middle. but blue and or uvb in the middle is what i'm thinking about doing next. the far red was my attempt at the Emerson effect along with the QBs


Yep, just wired and straped to the center mast.

I just went with what @andymex had suggested to start with, but knew that I could expand a little later. I just had to get these done and hung. They took a little while to build, but that was probably due to having to figure things out along the way.


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## Mass Medicinals (Jan 13, 2021)

Wow what a new set-up. Just a little upgrade from tent set-up!! 

Inspiring and cannot wait to see more posts.


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## Dabhead710 (Jan 19, 2021)

Ya def need to add 660 and 720nm red and ir is a must have ... uv can cause serious problems if they are ran too long...i run uva and uvb both which is a must have for uvs and uvr8 but just a hair of uvb is the trick.....


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## JSB99 (Jan 24, 2021)

The girls LOOOOVE the new lights!!!


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## JSB99 (Jan 27, 2021)

Added some weight to the outsides, and got an enormous boost in intensity! 40k around the sides, and up to 55k towards the center!


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## Bullet2112 (Feb 1, 2021)

Very cool setup!

Did you wire your drivers in series or parallel?

Here is one built using a combination to cover all spectrums.

There are Samsung strips, and bud booster strips mounted in the frame with 9 QB's.

6 QB's @ 4000k
3 QB's @ 3000k
4 Samsung 96 LM301 Strips @ 2700k
4 Bud Booster Strips that cover IR, 660 and deep reds

600Watt Inventronics Running the 9 QB's
200Watt Meanwell running the 4 Samsung strips
200Watt Meanwell running the 4 Bud Booster Strips

With Dimming on each driver gives the ability to "tune" the spectrums as needed...heatsink only needed on the Strips.

Forgot to turn on the strips in the pic! Doh!


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## bernie344 (Feb 1, 2021)

JSB99 said:


> I've got an Active Aqua 60W, 70 L/min pump coming for my 4x5 gallon bucket UnderCurrent build. An 8 output manifold comes with it.
> 
> What I'm wondering is, would 2 air stones per bucket produce more dissolved oxygen than 1 air stone per bucket at twice the pressure (because 4 of the outputs would be shut off)?


It would be good to have 2 as a backup safety, incase one goes down while your away.


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## JSB99 (Feb 1, 2021)

Bullet2112 said:


> Very cool setup!
> 
> Did you wire your drivers in series or parallel?
> 
> ...


Thanks!

Nice setup!

Wired in series


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## Mellow old School (Feb 2, 2021)

Cant see if you mentioned it mate, how many watts in total are these panels?

Looks nice as always...


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## JSB99 (Feb 2, 2021)

Mellow old School said:


> Cant see if you mentioned it mate, how many watts in total are these panels?
> 
> Looks nice as always...


Thanks 

Around 1k


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## JSB99 (Feb 2, 2021)

Bullet2112 said:


> Very cool setup!
> 
> Did you wire your drivers in series or parallel?
> 
> ...


At some point I'll be expanding on my light rigs with some of the components you listed. It cost a lot to build, so my wallet needed a rest LOL! But after it recovers, I'll beat up on it a little more


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## JSB99 (Feb 2, 2021)

Bullet2112 said:


> Very cool setup!
> 
> Did you wire your drivers in series or parallel?
> 
> ...


Along with dimming, I am tilting the lights to account for a slow grower...


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## 2com (Feb 15, 2021)

Dabhead710 said:


> Ya def need to add 660 and 720nm red and ir is a must have ... uv can cause serious problems if they are ran too long...i run uva and uvb both which is a must have for uvs and uvr8 but just a hair of uvb is the trick.....


How are you adding ir?


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## 2com (Feb 15, 2021)

Sweet light build @JSB99, are the qbs on the ends of the fixtures only connected/screwed in at one corner/point?


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## JSB99 (Feb 15, 2021)

2com said:


> Sweet light build @JSB99, are the qbs on the ends of the fixtures only connected/screwed in at one corner/point?


Yeah, they're just held in on the corners, and supported by the small bar. I put zipties on the bar to prevent them from swiveling. I have the two rigs connections Ted with a couple twisty ties to prevent the fan wind from banging them together. But I think a bigger advantage is they allow the rigs to be better positioned.


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## JSB99 (Feb 15, 2021)

Before switching from hps to led, I would see posts of led lights burning tops from lights being too close. So I've been kinda cautious, and watched the girls closely, as I got the lights closer and closer.

Now, I have my lights around 90%, and as close as 12" to 14" to some of the tops. I'm reading 50k to 60k > at the tops, and as much as 30k @ 24". I haven't seen any kind of burning or anything. My room is cool, though. I have to use a small heater at times. And, I've got two big oscillating fans. One of the reasons I really wanted to go tentless.

So I'm wondering, is it because I'm an experienced grower and know how to get my lights close without burning them. Or, do the type of led panels I've got going have anything to do with it.

Word to the noobs: You'll see duct tape taped to the grills of the fans. This is because these fans are too powerful with how close they are. The duct tape acts as a diffuser so the leaves don't get wind burn.


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## 2com (Feb 15, 2021)

JSB99 said:


> Before switching from hps to led, I would see posts of led lights burning tops from lights being too close. So I've been kinda cautious, and watched the girls closely, as I got the lights closer and closer.
> 
> Now, I have my lights around 90%, and as close as 12" to 14" to some of the tops. I'm reading 50k to 60k > at the tops, and as much as 30k @ 24". I haven't seen any kind of burning or anything. My room is cool, though. I have to use a small heater at times. And, I've got two big oscillating fans. One of the reasons I really wanted to go tentless.
> 
> ...


How warm are the actual plants?
Do you have iphone or android?


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## JSB99 (Feb 15, 2021)

2com said:


> How warm are the actual plants?
> Do you have iphone or android?


I'm a tech kinda dude, so I love hacking and messing with my android devices 

My canopy tops are 76°


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## 2com (Feb 15, 2021)

JSB99 said:


> I'm a tech kinda dude, so I love hacking and messing with my android devices
> 
> My canopy tops are 76°


Ah, I see. I don't have iphone either. I was gonna suggest a par/ppfd app *that apparently actually works*, but it's not out for android (yet). I made a post about it, "Korona" app (growinganswers did a video, test, review on it). I have access to an old, iphone 6 but it needs a battery replacement, otherwise I'd use it.

Anyway...

76* is too cold, if you measured that with an ir thermometer..? What's the room ambient air temp again - probably 80-82*F ish? I understand you're having to add heat to the room though, so if it's a money thing, I get it - been there. (Your plants look good regardless, I don't see much purpling, or anything else. Really nice internodal length it looks like, too. Good job, dude.).

Seeing as you just came from HID, did you happen to check actual plant temps under that setup?


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## JSB99 (Feb 15, 2021)

2com said:


> Ah, I see. I don't have iphone either. I was gonna suggest a par/ppfd app *that apparently actually works*, but it's not out for android (yet). I made a post about it, "Korona" app (growinganswers did a video, test, review on it). I have access to an old, iphone 6 but it needs a battery replacement, otherwise I'd use it.
> 
> Anyway...
> 
> ...


Yep, those temps came from an IR gun. I would be around that when I had my HID, because my hood was sealed. During veg I'd have them around 81°. Its not a money issue. I can run the heater. The room is warmer than my house, @ 70°, but it does feel a little like autumn in there. I'll warm up the room a bit. I was thinking today that it might be a little cool in there. Oh yeah, the ambient room temp is 75°, and the room doesn't get any cooler than 65° during lights out.

I have my drivers wall-mounted, so the light rigs produce very little heat, especially with the oscillating fans breezing them. I've also got a small fan on the drivers to keep 'em cool, but I turn the fan off if I want to creep the temps up a bit, from the heat.


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## 2com (Feb 15, 2021)

JSB99 said:


> Yep, those temps came from an IR gun. I would be around that when I had my HID, because my hood was sealed. During veg I'd have them around 81°. Its not a money issue. I can run the heater. The room is warmer than my house, @ 70°, but it does feel a little like autumn in there. I'll warm up the room a bit. I was thinking today that it might be a little cool in there. Oh yeah, the ambient room temp is 75°, and the room doesn't get any cooler than 65° during lights out.
> 
> I have my drivers wall-mounted, so the light rigs produce very little heat, especially with the oscillating fans breezing them. I've also got a small fan on the drivers to keep 'em cool, but I turn the fan off if I want to creep the temps up a bit, from the heat.


I've never seen plant temp above or at ambient air temp with leds. In fact leaves felt cool to the touch, and always several degrees cooler than ambient (6-8*F ish), then if they're transpiring they feel even cooler.
Getting them warmer, and up to that 82*F point is _night and day difference_. To the point I'd be hard pressed to suggest led for a cold climate/room grower unless they're gonna seal the room and not air exchange (or unless they're otherwise going to get the temps up to required levels).
Finding a way to add heat that also adds something else beneficial is a good idea (co2 generator for eg.) I'm looking at cmh...which would have to replace some led.

Bringing in the cold air to chill that res might not be helping the room temp, is it a loop that then leaves the room, or does that cold air just leave the tote and diffuse into the room after?

Anyway, I'm rambling.

Edit: added.


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## JSB99 (Feb 16, 2021)

2com said:


> I've never seen plant temp above or at ambient air temp with leds. In fact leaves felt cool to the touch, and always several degrees cooler than ambient (6-8*F ish), then if they're transpiring they feel even cooler.
> Getting them warmer, and up to that 82*F point is _night and day difference_. To the point I'd be hard pressed to suggest led for a cold climate/room grower unless they're gonna seal the room and not air exchange (or unless they're otherwise going to get the temps up to required levels).
> Finding a way to add heat that also adds something else beneficial is a good idea (co2 generator for eg.) I'm looking at cmh...which would have to replace some led.
> 
> ...


A'ight, got my little heater going.


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## JSB99 (Feb 16, 2021)

2com said:


> I've never seen plant temp above or at ambient air temp with leds. In fact leaves felt cool to the touch, and always several degrees cooler than ambient (6-8*F ish), then if they're transpiring they feel even cooler.
> Getting them warmer, and up to that 82*F point is _night and day difference_. To the point I'd be hard pressed to suggest led for a cold climate/room grower unless they're gonna seal the room and not air exchange (or unless they're otherwise going to get the temps up to required levels).
> Finding a way to add heat that also adds something else beneficial is a good idea (co2 generator for eg.) I'm looking at cmh...which would have to replace some led.
> 
> ...


Today the room and canopy were at 81° without having to adjust anything. Its a tiny heater, which is perfect.


----------



## JSB99 (Apr 5, 2021)

Almost done with my first LED grow. Pretty impressive results so far!


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## rkymtnman (Apr 5, 2021)

ya think?? lol. we have another convert to led


----------



## JSB99 (Apr 5, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> ya think?? lol. we have another convert to led


Yep, screw you, you few remaining skeptics LOL!


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 5, 2021)

JSB99 said:


> Yep, screw you, you few remaining skeptics LOL!


what strain is that? looks pretty


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## JSB99 (Apr 5, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> what strain is that? looks pretty


GG4 and WW

Smells really fruity in there LOL


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## F1_Grower (Apr 8, 2021)

JSB99 said:


> Almost done with my first LED grow. Pretty impressive results so far!
> 
> View attachment 4871554View attachment 4871558


Looking swoll! Great job.

I have two 250w viaparspectra QBs alongside 315 cmh. Which led you running?


----------



## JSB99 (Apr 8, 2021)

F1_Grower said:


> Looking swoll! Great job.
> 
> I have two 250w viaparspectra QBs alongside 315 cmh. Which led you running?


16 x QB132 3000k
2 hlg 480h c1750a
20 uv diodes


----------



## JSB99 (Apr 8, 2021)

JSB99 said:


> 16 x QB132 3000k
> 2 hlg 480h c1750a
> 20 uv diodes
> 
> ...


More pics in the previous few pages


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## starcraftguy1988 (Apr 11, 2021)

Wow great looking setup! Did you Build your own panels?


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## JSB99 (Apr 11, 2021)

starcraftguy1988 said:


> Wow great looking setup! Did you Build your own panels?


I did. It took a little while to build, but I think it was well worth the effort. I had help from folks here at RIU. Couldn't have done it without them.


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## OldMedUser (May 1, 2021)

Space age looking setup man!

I'd love to switch over to LED but have so much invested in HIDs and a severe cash shortage so keep paying those outrageous hydro bills for now. $530 bill for last month for 2010kwh works out to 26.4¢/kwh! The wife has all my old T-12s going to raise her veggie plants and I'm only using 600w for my plants so it's higher than usual but hurtin' bad. Warmer weather now so the bill should drop as she doesn't need the water heaters for her chickens but I'll be using more lights soon to start flowering some plants inside.

If I can raise a few hun I'll try building some LEDs but so many things need some cash around here. Owning your own home has it's pluses and minuses.


----------

