# Adding extra nitrogren during flowering?



## Sr. Verde (Mar 20, 2011)

Hey guys. First let me start by saying this isn't vital help, my plants aren't dying. I'm just curious about the below..


I'm 4 days into flowering some Tangerine Dreams (70 day flower) and I've ONLY added my GROW (as apposed to bloom) nutrient _once_.

I feel like my plants are a light green, I feel like they could benefit from some nitrogen, as I feel like I underfed them in veg.

I hear that when a plant needs nitrogen, it needs nitrogen, regardless of photoperiod.. 




I'm using Technafloras line of nutrients, Grow, Boost, and Bloom.. (pretty sure)

Could I just add Boost, and Bloom and a little bit of GROW to add some nitrogen, or would I want to go another route?

Day 1 flower, under a 250w MH (added MH pic so you can see the coloring a few days ago)






Day 3 flower, under 250w HPS







Outline: What do you guys think about adding extra nitrogen during the beginning of flowering? How would you/do you do it?



Thanks


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## mcpurple (Mar 20, 2011)

well it is good to use the veg nutes the first 2 weeks of flower cuz they use alot of N in the stretch. when i switch to flower i slowly decrease veg nutes and increase the bloom every feed untill i am no longer using a veg nute usally at the end of the 2nd week. then it is just bloom food and every once in a while it is good to through some more veg nuts in to keep them green and lush. using N is ok in flower just not using it in huge amounts, cuz it will delay flower time.
your plants dont look to bad at all though. i would continue with some veg nutes and slowly add more bloom till veg nutes are cut out


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## Sr. Verde (Mar 20, 2011)

mcpurple said:


> well it is good to use the veg nutes the first 2 weeks of flower cuz they use alot of N in the stretch. when i switch to flower i slowly decrease veg nutes and increase the bloom every feed untill i am no longer using a veg nute usally at the end of the 2nd week. then it is just bloom food and every once in a while it is good to through some more veg nuts in to keep them green and lush. using N is ok in flower just not using it in huge amounts, cuz it will delay flower time.
> your plants dont look to bad at all though. i would continue with some veg nutes and slowly add more bloom till veg nutes are cut out


Cool man that's perfect! I was at first just going to flip to straight bloom nutrients, but great info on N being used during stretch.


While were at it I've had this question on my mind.. I'm in soil. Technaflora recommends doing ....Feed-Water-Water....

I used to use Advanced Nutrients and that was..... Feed-Water....

I don't see how they would be any different, they are the same types of nutrients?

I'm a newbie to nutrients though! Only my second grow. Nutrients is something that you just have to learn first hand, i'm figuring out!






Basically, I would LIKE to add nutes[mainly nitrogen] next watering. I just watered with plain water last time, so according to technaflora I should use plain water once more, THEN use my nutrient solution.

I plan on using half strength next, if that makes any difference.

What do you think I should do?


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## drewabu (Mar 20, 2011)

Sannieshop has something called fish powder that is packed w/N and organic. It works perfect for me when I start to see yellowing during the flower period.


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## purpz (Mar 20, 2011)

A.N. has a lot of salts in it, so be careful. Always water in between feedings is good & if your going to mix nutrients Never go full strength.


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## mcpurple (Mar 20, 2011)

i always fed water, feed, water feed, water feed and so on and on. this way if theri is any left overs form the last fed the fresh plain water will help use them up and help not create a salt buildup of any sort.

i would do feed water feed water like said above.
i would give thema feed next if you just gave water last time. and use the same amount of nutes as you did in veg with the veg nutes.


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## Sr. Verde (Mar 20, 2011)

purpz said:


> A.N. has a lot of salts in it, so be careful. Always water in between feedings is good & if your going to mix nutrients Never go full strength.


I'm not using A.N., I'm using Technaflora... 'B.C Grow, B.C Boost etc.'

good call though on the never go full strength when mixing



mcpurple said:


> i always fed water, feed, water feed, water feed and so on and on. this way if theri is any left overs form the last fed the fresh plain water will help use them up and help not create a salt buildup of any sort.
> 
> i would do feed water feed water like said above.
> i would give thema feed next if you just gave water last time. and use the same amount of nutes as you did in veg with the veg nutes.


Yes, I dig the importance of letting the plant uptake the dissolved salts.. what I do not understand is why my nutrient manufacturer [technaflora] tells me to *FEED** - *water - water - *FEED*


Like I'm not usually one to go against the label, but I don't understand why I wouldn't just do feed-water-feed-water.

What nutes are you running mcpurple?


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## thexception (Mar 20, 2011)

i am past my 3rd week in flowering & am still adding N...although this plant "sativa" wont finish till about may 1st. it was too sensitive during veg, & showed minor burn, so I backed way off & I know they didnt get enough, because bottom leaves have been yellowing & even falling off; much too early for this! I use both veg fert & bloom fert, along w/epsom salts. U just got to go by what that individual plant or grow needs & when. Ideally it works one way all the time, in reality it just aint so, lol. I also pretty much feed, water, water. And the reason is, it could take 5-7 days for the signs of ur ferts to show in the plant, & if you r feed water feed....u r not giving enough time in between to "evaluate" ur grow at that point & how the ferts r affecting it...yet u have already fed again.


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## purpz (Mar 20, 2011)

my bad, i miss read.


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## Serapis (Mar 20, 2011)

I add extra N in the 3rd week of flower, after the plant has nearly finished it's 12/12 stretch.... I don't get a lot of yellow leaf in flower because of that I think. I do have to be careful and watch closely for Calcium and magnesium issues, they always sneak up on me...


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## PhatColas (Mar 20, 2011)

For flowering in soil, I taper off the Grow formula during the first few weeks of 12/12, while slowly increasing the Bloom formula. I use the BMO Grow It Green (5-2-5) and Flower Power (1-8-7) as my base nutes. Anytime I see the lower fan leaves starting to lighten up, I mix in 5 ml of Cal-Mag (2-0-0), and it seems to green them right back up. Then nothing but water the last 10 days, and it's all good. Cal-Mag is my weapon of choice, for dailing it back into the green zone during flowering. For coco, I prefer the Canna nutes, for my base nutes, because they have less K.


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## Sr. Verde (Mar 20, 2011)

thexception said:


> i am past my 3rd week in flowering & am still adding N...although this plant "sativa" wont finish till about may 1st. it was too sensitive during veg, & showed minor burn, so I backed way off & I know they didnt get enough, because bottom leaves have been yellowing & even falling off; much too early for this! I use both veg fert & bloom fert, along w/epsom salts. U just got to go by what that individual plant or grow needs & when. Ideally it works one way all the time, in reality it just aint so, lol. I also pretty much feed, water, water. And the reason is, it could take 5-7 days for the signs of ur ferts to show in the plant, & if you r feed water feed....u r not giving enough time in between to "evaluate" ur grow at that point & how the ferts r affecting it...yet u have already fed again.


Ok I see where your coming from. The nutrients are in rather high values too. I think I will feed the next time with nutes, as they haven't had much. Then once I get into the full strength I will start spacing out my waterings as recommended to better gauge the uptake.. I am currently only watering once every 4-5 days or so. I transplanted from 20oz party cups to 3.5 gals and vegged for 3 weeks before flower. So they are no doubt getting thirstier by the day.

Thanks 



purpz said:


> my bad, i miss read.


All good my man  



PhatColas said:


> For flowering in soil, I taper off the Grow formula during the first few weeks of 12/12, while slowly increasing the Bloom formula. I use the BMO Grow It Green (5-2-5) and Flower Power (1-8-7) as my base nutes. Anytime I see the lower fan leaves starting to lighten up, I mix in 5 ml of Cal-Mag (2-0-0), and it seems to green them right back up. Then nothing but water the last 10 days, and it's all good. Cal-Mag is my weapon of choice, for dailing it back into the green zone during flowering. For coco, I prefer the Canna nutes, for my base nutes, because they have less K.


This is what I was planning on doing essentially. 

I have _totally_ noticed how the leaves darken with MagiCal! I have been using it half strength, but the last time I fed I did full strength MagiCal (cal + mag) & full strenghh thrive alive.. 2.5mL/Gal




Thanks everyone, I have a feeling my plants are going to love this

I don't want to speak too soon but it seems like I've got the stretch under control... They haven't grown up into any hot spots suddenly or anything, I check the lights every day.. like a half inch of vertical growth a day pretty much


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## Serapis (Mar 20, 2011)

CalMag has several nutrients in it, including nitrogen.... as an added bonus, it is difficult to burn plants with Calmag.


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## Sr. Verde (Mar 20, 2011)

Serapis said:


> CalMag has several nutrients in it, including nitrogen.... as an added bonus, it is difficult to burn plants with Calmag.


Yeah I was reading that on the bottle  , I just wanted people to know the 'MagiCal' was basically CalMag  thats why I pointed out the main ingredients.

But yeah I dig the CalMag... I'm doing 2.5mL per Gallon of water, in soil... thats the most Technaflora recommends using... how much do you think you could increase the strength of that? Or would you even?


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## Serapis (Mar 20, 2011)

I grow hydro and go by total ppm, so I really can't answer the question with confidence in my answer so I won't.


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## Sr. Verde (Mar 20, 2011)

Ok I understand


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## redeyez420 (Mar 21, 2011)

yesh sensi cal bloom works good to add N


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 21, 2011)

Sr. Verde said:


> But yeah I dig the CalMag... I'm doing 2.5mL per Gallon of water, in soil... thats the most Technaflora recommends using... how much do you think you could increase the strength of that? Or would you even?


Yes, you need N while flowering. It's not bloom foods that produce bud (contrary to popular belief and vendor hype), it's foliage. If your foods induce premature leaf drop and yellowing, you're gonna lose production. Simple botany. Another thing, you keep dropping label names. Without knowing and understanding what's in your products, you're sunk.

Also, I can't see where 2.5 ml/gallon of ANY of the oil company products will have any affect one way or the other. If you study the GA, you're only getting 2.5% N. Any greening up is probably due to the relatively high Mg and Fe. Without sufficient N, at any time, you're gonna see some stunting and foliage issues. http://www.technaflora.com/products.php?product=19

This is what your leaves should look like. This one is 42 days into flowering.



Good luck,
UB


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## Sr. Verde (Mar 21, 2011)

Hey uncle ben!

I was actually reading in some of your older threads that spoke about adding additionalN for flowering. This is actually what got the wheels turning.


As far as label names, I totally know where your coming from. Plants don't notice a difference in label, nitrogen is nitrogen to them. I'm just using what I know out of memory, I'm not super well experienced with nutrients, so rather than possibly leaving out some information I chose to refer to them as they are called on the label 

The leaves aren't yellowing yet, they are just a light green that I feel could be darker... and healthier 



Thanks for dropping the knowledge, that cola looks perfect. You can tell those leaves are chop full of nitrogen, nice dark dark hemp green - that's what I came here looking for


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 21, 2011)

Sr. Verde said:


> Hey uncle ben!
> 
> I was actually reading in some of your older threads that spoke about adding additionalN for flowering. This is actually what got the wheels turning.


That's what I try to do, get the wheels turning, make you think and understand plant processes. Then you're empowered to make your own decisions based on common sense. The issue is chlorophyll - keep 'em green. Sounds like you're on the right track. The plant nursery industry standard for foliage production is a 3-1-2. For blooming, 1-3-2. 



> As far as label names, I totally know where your coming from.


One of the problems I have with the oil companies is the deception. There are too many "Grow" foods that I wouldn't being to "grow" in that they are deficient in N and many times way out line on the K.



> The leaves aren't yellowing yet, they are just a light green that I feel could be darker... and healthier


That's the spirit!



> Thanks for dropping the knowledge, that cola looks perfect. You can tell those leaves are chop full of nitrogen, nice dark dark hemp green - that's what I came here looking for


Thanks, I post that photo to combat the too much N mantra - "too much N will interrupt or shut down flowering!" Well, if those dark green ladies aren't flowering profusely, then my rice is cooked!

Good luck,
UB


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## Sr. Verde (Mar 21, 2011)

Do you ever taper off your nutes uncle ben, or do you try to keep them green until harvest as some do?

I know they start to naturally yellow as time draws nearer to harvest, but do you try to keep them green?





I've two parts of this certain arguement: 1. I heard that you don't want any nutes being taken up towards the end of harvest

AND 2. I've heard that they need the nutes even moreso towards the end..



whats your stance on that? could you please debunk whichever is incorrect for me? I totally dig your way of growing, as I read more of your posts I see you learn somewhat like me... I'm the same way with math as I am growing, I would like to find out what the GOAL of the formula is, rather than learn JUST the formula!


Thanks for the time dude!


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## mcpurple (Mar 21, 2011)

well UB is here now so im sure your very well of my friend. good luck on the grows


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## Sr. Verde (Mar 21, 2011)

This is exactly why I love rollitup.org


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 22, 2011)

Sr. Verde said:


> Do you ever taper off your nutes uncle ben, or do you try to keep them green until harvest as some do?
> 
> I know they start to naturally yellow as time draws nearer to harvest, but do you try to keep them green?
> 
> ...


For the best production, keep 'em green and healthy until harvest.


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## Sr. Verde (Mar 22, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> For the best production, keep 'em green and healthy until harvest.


Will do. Thanks uncle ben!



Now I pull out my nutrient bottles, and it appears the boost as more nitrogen than the grow....

So i guess I'll be adding more boost than grow 

it looks like the NPK of the bottles are as follows (for you uncle ben if your still reading)

B.C Bloom: 1-4-7

B.C Boost: 3-0-2

B.C Grow: 1-3-6

Thinking watering tomorrow with:

15 mL per gallon 'boost'. 4mL BC 'grow'. 5mL BC bloom... then thrive alive & magical...

Then next watering, plain water twice, see how they react, and then probably slowly work onto the bloom nutes into the schedule


thanks all let me if know if any of that sounds bad. They are starting to stretch a bit worse, and I can almost see the plant pulling the N from the leaves as they get slightly yellowed






this is them today


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## redeyez420 (Mar 22, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> Also, I can't see where 2.5 ml/gallon of ANY of the oil company products will have any affect one way or the other. If you study the GA, you're only getting 2.5% N. Any greening up is probably due to the relatively high Mg and Fe. Without sufficient N, at any time, you're gonna see some stunting and foliage issues. http://www.technaflora.com/products.php?product=19




so how much do you think we should add?per gallon, lets say if the n is 2% in the nutrient like that product^^^


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 23, 2011)

I don't know how much you should add, it's the ratio that counts. Again, if you want to stay green until harvest, you need to boost the N a little and those products won't do it if I'm getting the NPK values right, which seems too high in K and too low in N.

Good luck,
UB


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## dlively11 (Mar 23, 2011)

I do 75% bloom and 25% veg the first week of bloom then go to 100% bloom nutes. Any and all light leaves are nice and green by then and the plants take off. I am in hydro so things are going faster. I guess if I" was in soil I'd go to week 2. I personally wouldnt go more then 50% veg nutes once you are in bloom. I think it would hurt yield. Bloom nutes still have N in them and will get your plants green. Assuming you are using a good nutrient of course. If they are not there is something else going on. I'll add that mine stay green until harvest as well.

35 days into bloom on a 9 week strain . Short and bushy because its in a SOG 32 plants per light.


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## Uncle Ben (Mar 23, 2011)

dlively11 said:


> Bloom nutes still have N in them and will get your plants green. Assuming you are using a good nutrient of course. If they are not there is something else going on. I'll add that mine stay green until harvest as well.
> 
> 35 days into bloom on a 9 week strain . Short and bushy because its in a SOG 32 plants per light.


Not enough N to sustain foliage. All oil company bloom foods will block the uptake of N and micros. What do they look like at week 8 or 10? Here's the bottom line....learn the concept of nutrient antagonism well Sr. Verde, and you'll be light years ahead of your peers: http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

The typical ratio of a 1-4-7 is ridiculous, but that's what folks expect in a "bloom" food, so the vendors give them what they think they want......"cause they say that K and P produces lotssssssssss of blooms!" An excess of K for example will antagonize the uptake of N, Ca, and Mg, all very important elements regarding plant health and production.


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## dlively11 (Mar 23, 2011)

My plants stay just as green at end of week 9 actually. I use GH Maxibloom powder (5-15-14) along with Floralicious Plus as my base . I switched over to these nutes some time ago and am very happy with them. Happier then I was with any of the much more expensive hydroponic nutes AN and H&G included. Those were both a rip off at more then 2X the price. Not as good of results as my cheap ass powder to boot which makes me happy. $14 for a 2.2 lb bag sold everywhere I shop. Floraliciou Plus is $170 for a gallon but it treats almost 4000 gallons.


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## Sr. Verde (Mar 23, 2011)

Uncle Ben said:


> I don't know how much you should add, it's the ratio that counts. Again, if you want to stay green until harvest, you need to boost the N a little and those products won't do it if I'm getting the NPK values right, which seems too high in K and too low in N.
> 
> Good luck,
> UB


You were correct uncle ben, apparently my stoned self assumed wrong for the bottles! It's actually the 'Boost' thats higher in N, which you are _supposed_ to add during flowering and veg. So I guess it works out! The other formulas are relatively low in N. I just fed them this morning, I felt good about it, I feel like they will be doing better... I will be posting pictures here in 5 daysish when some we can start seeing some results


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## xX.The.Wolf.Xx (Monday at 11:16 PM)

Although this post is old it can never hurt to add to it. What drives your crop is the intensity of lighting. Everything revolves around what your plants get for light. In a high performance grow with high ppfd 1500-2100, temps in the high 80s VPD and LST on point, CO2 levels 1500ppm, aggressive air movement over, under and through canopy to help force transpire the biomass into overdrive, hydroponic reservoir super oxygenated, temp kept at 73 degrees, growing in straight hydroton, ebb and flow with conical bucket bottoms flood and drain times kept to 15 minutes and dialed in, that will determine your EC strength. Now a few days before you trigger flowering, your going to want your canopy dark green almost black, boardering nitrogen toxicity, maybe even having fan leaves exhibiting the "claw". This helps when you ramp up the ppfd to such extremes as double or triple what the normal ppfd people use for flowering (750-900) is normal I use 1500-2100ppfd. Why you boost your EC before flower to get the canopy and biomass nice and dark is because it helps ward off the extreme stress of the light intensity that can cause light and heat stress and bleaching of buds, you do have to give your system and roots a nice warm soak of water to flush excess salts every reservoir change and sometimes give them a day of just water to recuperate from the high EC feeding regimen, but by doing this, it will carry your crop through week 6 when most of the bud development happens and weeks 7 to the chop you get absolutely incredible size buds. You have to have the right genetics and play around with the parameters for the strains you grow but when it's dialed in, it's magical.


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