# Can someone list some benefits of vertical growing?



## TwistItUp (Oct 19, 2014)

What are the benefits of vertical growing?
A list of pro's and con's if you can please.
It seems like you can do more with what you have as far as lighting, but it also seems like complicating things.


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## daemon kronic (Oct 29, 2014)

Yes it is far more elaborate of a set up but u will gain more space as far as plants go u will waste less light... Most ppl have 7-8' height alot of which is wasted 
It also makes relocation much easier as u cover stand pick up an go..if needed 

Not sure as to what else there is but i think there will be much more to it


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## m4s73r (Oct 29, 2014)

I am a member of the 600vert club. I dont have a lot to go on as far as horizontal growing. I grew under a 8bulb t5 for a couple of years. Then I lost half the bulbs (ballast burnt) and went to a solis tech 600 digital. (awesome ballast btw)

For me, going vert was cheaper. I didnt have to buy a hood. Ballast, bulb, and socket. The room is 8x7x7. I bloom 8 plants in 3.5 gallon hempy buckets using Advanced Nutrients 3 part ph perfect line. 2.5 zips average per plants dry. ( I say average as i run 3 strains one is a heavyweight that gets big). Now i could increase my plant numbers and proly get better then 2g/watt, but i grow for personal and dont need it. I dont train, top, supercrop, lst. i do trim the plant after stretch to get rid of popcorn and anything growing on the backside of the plant. 

I personally dont see a point in horizontal grows. Hoods are heat traps and you lose lumens with glass and reflectors. Barebulb has better penetration and imho is easier to cool.


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## rickymac21 (Oct 30, 2014)

m4s73r said:


> I am a member of the 600vert club. I dont have a lot to go on as far as horizontal growing. I grew under a 8bulb t5 for a couple of years. Then I lost half the bulbs (ballast burnt) and went to a solis tech 600 digital. (awesome ballast btw)
> 
> For me, going vert was cheaper. I didnt have to buy a hood. Ballast, bulb, and socket. The room is 8x7x7. I bloom 8 plants in 3.5 gallon hempy buckets using Advanced Nutrients 3 part ph perfect line. 2.5 zips average per plants dry. ( I say average as i run 3 strains one is a heavyweight that gets big). Now i could increase my plant numbers and proly get better then 2g/watt, but i grow for personal and dont need it. I dont train, top, supercrop, lst. i do trim the plant after stretch to get rid of popcorn and anything growing on the backside of the plant.
> 
> I personally dont see a point in horizontal grows. Hoods are heat traps and you lose lumens with glass and reflectors. Barebulb has better penetration and imho is easier to cool.


Not to thread jack but could you elaborate on your room ? 
7x7x8 seems huge for a single 600 vert. Also how long do you veg those plants for ? I only ask because im building a vert room for a single 1000w in a couple weeks


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## m4s73r (Oct 30, 2014)

Oh it is huge. Its 4 times the space i really need. But its a unfinished bathroom in my basement, 4 walls, a plug, and a drain concrete floor. The buckets sit on the floor with the plants around the bulb. Its hanging from the ceiling. Little turbo fan on the floor blowing at the bulb. Box fan in the room for air circulation and a 6 inch duct fan for extraction. 

Its hard to say how long they veg. I start all clones in solo hempy cups. I veg 4 in the 3.5 gallon for 4 weeks under a 4 bulb t5 with 4 t5 side lighting. Normally clones are in the cups for a bit under some cfls. They get root bound. But i always have 4 clones of each of the 3 strains. And this is a perpetual grow. I harvest once a week. (which amounts to plucking the fan leaves and hanging her whole in the dry box for a weeks to 10 days)

Now these pics are from when i first transitioned from soil to hempy. I found the sunkist bottles to be to large to fill between transplants so moved to dixie cups.


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## daemon kronic (Oct 31, 2014)

Not downing ur system... Seems very nice... But would like to point out that the roots wont really like the pop bottle much...i did the same thing for a bit and had healthier roots after i put ducttape around to block the light... Just saying it may make them happier


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## m4s73r (Oct 31, 2014)

its a algae thing. I had it for a bit. My biggest issue was space. They grew fine. But yeah if your going to grow in them in a SoG situation, id duct tape them up to stop the light. I was using them for clone starting. But space and laziness made me go to the dixie cups.


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## daemon kronic (Oct 31, 2014)

Ah well as long as ur aware of it.... Information is the battle we all face 

On anoter note have u done a multi-layer vertical or just this type?


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## m4s73r (Oct 31, 2014)

I havent. And not for any other reason then I just dont need to grow that much smoke. and more plant numbers. If i needed more, id just veg them for another 2 weeks and let them get bigger. I would need to add a screen around the bulb and trim enough to let light penetrate. With a screen i could proly increse my yeild by having a more even canopy. right now my plants look like half cristmas trees. i try and keep the light side of the plant even. 

I dont sell or anything. this is just for me and the fam. With my perpetual cycle all smoke is at least 3 months cured before use. I have been thinking of upping my yield for a couple rounds to do some BHO, but again, im lazy...and cheap. lol


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## daemon kronic (Oct 31, 2014)

Kk jw... Have a friend looking into fill a 7x8x6 room for max output was gonna ask if its any harder


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## ttystikk (Oct 31, 2014)

Yes it's harder, because you'll grow a lot bigger plants in the same space which will stress your HVAC. You'll have more bud to deal with, so more labor. Other than that- not a lot of differences. If anything, vert is easier in a lot of ways, including access for routine maintenance.


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## daemon kronic (Oct 31, 2014)

K but as far as quantity this is the way to go tho?


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## m4s73r (Oct 31, 2014)

With out a doubt.


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## brimck325 (Oct 31, 2014)

i pulled over 20 oz off my first vert under a 600.....def. a great yielding way to grow!


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## m4s73r (Oct 31, 2014)

Really the biggest thing is to make sure you have your environment dialed in. When i first got my 600 light, i had no idea what it would be like. Remember i was blooming under a 4' 8bulb t5. I didnt even need an extraction fan.
My room with out extraction fan runs 85dF. with door open it drops to 78, with extraction its 73. Thats the upside to a bigger room. Imho, if your going to grow get the biggest tent that will fit your max area. If you have room for a 8x8, get a 8x8. It takes longer for air to heat up the more you have. a 8x8x6.5 is 416 ft3. a 4x4x6.5 is 104. the 600 will heat up the room 3 times as fast so will require 3x more air exchange. but the bigger room can run less power/exchange because of the greater volume of air.
Sure you can run a 1000 watt light in a 4x4 tent, but your going to also run a 800 cfm fan to keep that tent from being 120dF
I run my fan dog shit slow. cant even really hear it. But its mounted right above the light. with the fan under it, heat isnt really in the room long enough for it to ever get warm. i could increase my energy efficiency if i went to a thermometer timer and insulated all ducting and fan. But thats $$ and im cheap... and lazy.. and long winded holy shit.

Edit, it also should help with the longevity of your carbon filter. less air you Have to move through the filter the longer the carbon lasts. Maybe. Or you can just do what a indian friend of mine does and cool Curry all day. lol House smells like curry. 20 girl blooming in sealed room . lol


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## jigfresh (Oct 31, 2014)

In my space 2'x3'x9' closet.... if I ran horizontal that gives me around 7 sq.ft of canopy space. Turn things vertically and I'm pushing 30-40 sq.ft of canopy space. 

Also easier to aircool a big light when it's hung vertically in a small space. Less turns in the ducting.

Plus it looks cool.


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## MrMeanGreen (Oct 31, 2014)

Pro's of vertical

Increased light foot print / surface area

Increased efficasy of light

More efficient use of space

Increased yield

tighter environment control (cool tubes)

easier to feed

Fukin sex on a stalk when ya sit and stare during late flower


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## dopeweed (Oct 31, 2014)

The whole plant is the same distance away from the light, which means the bud at the bottom is as good as the top. Overhead growing is a waste unless you're outside.

Just remember to keep your plants away from the lights (18-24") because you want the top and bottom to recieve light and close up you get a lot of leaf shade...and personally, I like to grow on a slight angle, so more of a V shape as I find properly vertical means leaf shade unless the plant is directly opposite to the bulb stops the buds developing as well. I also like to use the bottom of the V to grow into...which is a PITA for access but I gain an additional 25% by using this space so its worth the sticky arms and face full of leaf when it comes to training and pruning!



-dopeweed


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## legallyflying (Nov 5, 2014)

It would be easier to list the down sides of vertical growing. 

1. You need to wear good sunglasses or googles or you will close your eyes and see light bulbs...worse case. Intense headaches and eyes that feel like someone pounded sand into them 

2. Burnt skin. The bulbs are fucking HOT. If your running a big room and bump into one your going to get burnt enough that it forms a scab. Long sleeve shirts are a big plus in vert. 

3. The biggest downside is explaining to the horizontal crowd about the benefits and having to listen about all their misconceptions about reflecting the light, etc, etc. 

I just sold 14 blockbusters and converted my last horizontal room to vert. 

Love love love vertical bare bulb growing.


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## jigfresh (Nov 5, 2014)

That is so right on. Agree on all 3 points.


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## ttystikk (Nov 13, 2014)

legallyflying said:


> It would be easier to list the down sides of vertical growing.
> 
> 1. You need to wear good sunglasses or googles or you will close your eyes and see light bulbs...worse case. Intense headaches and eyes that feel like someone pounded sand into them
> 
> ...


It was a great feeling to get rid of my Magnum XXXL Ochos, same reason.

I built a room with eight of them in two rows. Wasteful... I swore I'd rip the fuckers out as soon as I had a better way... that was years ago now.


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## zep_lover (Nov 13, 2014)

i run 2 600's in a 4 foot by 4 foot by 6 foot high cabinet.i run a 8 inch fan filter directly above the 2 600's.i have 4 plants.one tied to each wall.depending on strain and if any problems occur,i have pulled from as little as 16 to as high as 45 oz from the 4 plants.i usually only run 1 light at 600 and 1 at 75 % or both at 75%.i still have not found the strain i am looking for but to stay medically compliant i can only test one or 2 at a time.my best crops doing horizontal was around 16oz from 1 600 with alot more work .i would use multiple lights instead of 1 thousand watter .i like the lack of shading due to multiple light sources.vert requires some getting used to cutting off alot of your plant so everything you do have gets great light.if you dont trim enough you will still get good results but alot of small buds.and or larf.the nice part is even the larf is usually pretty damn good!
good uv goggles are a necessity when growing vert .it will damage your eyes if you dont wear them when working around the bulbs.it is almost better to turn them or at least one off when working on your plants.


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## Flagg420 (Nov 13, 2014)

The 'Top' gets bigger.... therefore you get more 'Colas'

Only reason one needs.

Its scrogging for optimum light use. A hybrid of multiple proven grow methods.


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## Flagg420 (Nov 13, 2014)

zep_lover said:


> i run 2 600's in a 4 foot by 4 foot by 6 foot high cabinet.i run a 8 inch fan filter directly above the 2 600's.i have 4 plants.one tied to each wall.depending on strain and if any problems occur,i have pulled from as little as 16 to as high as 45 oz from the 4 plants.i usually only run 1 light at 600 and 1 at 75 % or both at 75%.i still have not found the strain i am looking for but to stay medically compliant i can only test one or 2 at a time.my best crops doing horizontal was around 16oz from 1 600 with alot more work .i would use multiple lights instead of 1 thousand watter .i like the lack of shading due to multiple light sources.vert requires some getting used to cutting off alot of your plant so everything you do have gets great light.if you dont trim enough you will still get good results but alot of small buds.and or larf.the nice part is even the larf is usually pretty damn good!
> good uv goggles are a necessity when growing vert .it will damage your eyes if you dont wear them when working around the bulbs.it is almost better to turn them or at least one off when working on your plants.


Would luv a pic of ur setup! You got a cage around the bulbs? how ya got them mounted?

When winter ends I plan to switch over to vert growing n currently run a pair of 600's, been playing with a few idea in my mind, but want ot keep temps low enough without bringing the tubes back into the mix...


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## Cannasutraorganics (Nov 14, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> It was a great feeling to get rid of my Magnum XXXL Ochos, same reason.
> 
> I built a room with eight of them in two rows. Wasteful... I swore I'd rip the fuckers out as soon as I had a better way... that was years ago now.


The Ocho is the best hood around if you know how to use them.


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## Cannasutraorganics (Nov 14, 2014)

Increased yield? For noobs maybe. Easier to cool? Can't use DE lights.


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## ttystikk (Nov 14, 2014)

Cannasutraorganics said:


> The Ocho is the best hood around if you know how to use them.


It's not as good as no hood, hands down.


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## ttystikk (Nov 14, 2014)

Cannasutraorganics said:


> Increased yield? For noobs maybe. Easier to cool? Can't use DE lights.


Right. Noobs and Colorado commercial grow warehouses, with the money to buy ANYTHING, COST NO OBJECT if it grows plants better/faster.

Should probably stick with what you know, cuz you don't know lighting.


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## Cannasutraorganics (Nov 14, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> Right. Noobs and Colorado commercial grow warehouses, with the money to buy ANYTHING, COST NO OBJECT if it grows plants better/faster.
> 
> Should probably stick with what you know, cuz you don't know lighting.


Are you pulling 2.5-4+ pounds a light??? My plants grow even all the way up. You just don't know enough about how a light works and what you can do to fix the natural imperfections. In a 10x10 room with four Ocho hoods modified by me, running a good yielder like Amsterdam Chronic, Tangerine Dream, Mazar Scherife, OG Lemon or a hundred other strains, I'll pull 12-18 pounds from that room. Your just too confused by your own stupidity to notice. Let's see some pics big talk..... And for a noob, your funny....


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## Cannasutraorganics (Nov 14, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> Right. Noobs and Colorado commercial grow warehouses, with the money to buy ANYTHING, COST NO OBJECT if it grows plants better/faster.
> 
> Should probably stick with what you know, cuz you don't know lighting.


One more thing big talk, most Colorado growers use Gavati lights. So quit acting like you know something about lights....


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## zep_lover (Nov 14, 2014)

Flagg420 said:


> Would luv a pic of ur setup! You got a cage around the bulbs? how ya got them mounted?
> 
> When winter ends I plan to switch over to vert growing n currently run a pair of 600's, been playing with a few idea in my mind, but want ot keep temps low enough without bringing the tubes back into the mix...


i do not have a cage around the lights.the lights are mounted on a bar one pointing up that is about 2 inches higher then the height of my honeywell fan.the other just under my carbon filter.the base of the bar is screwed to the floor.think of a 1 inch wide 1/4 inch thick steel bar with a simple bracket attached at around 13 inches from the floor and another around 54 inches from the floor with two holes in each bracket to screw the bulb socket to .the base is just a 10 inch piece ot sthe same bar with a few holes drilled in it to screw it to the floor.
will try and get a pic when i get back home in a few days.no cage is needed due to keeping the plants tied to the wall.i try for 1 layer only so nothing gets close to the lights.when i did a plain old donut with 6 to 8 plants around tied to individual racks i did need a cage.i do have a bit of trouble keeping my day night temps under ten degrees difference due to all the radient heat if running both bulbs at full power.i only need to run 800 watts to hit 50 watts per sq foot.i do not have heat trouble running at any combo of power settings except both at 100 %.


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## jigfresh (Nov 15, 2014)

Cannasutraorganics said:


> Are you pulling 2.5-4+ pounds a light??? My plants grow even all the way up. You just don't know enough about how a light works and what you can do to fix the natural imperfections. In a 10x10 room with four Ocho hoods modified by me, running a good yielder like Amsterdam Chronic, Tangerine Dream, Mazar Scherife, OG Lemon or a hundred other strains, I'll pull 12-18 pounds from that room. Your just too confused by your own stupidity to notice. Let's see some pics big talk..... And for a noob, your funny....


yeah well my dick is bigger than yours, so there.

and for fucks sake, if you're going to call someone stupid, you might want to learn how to use the English language properly. It makes you look right stupid yourself.


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## ttystikk (Nov 15, 2014)

Cannasutraorganics said:


> One more thing big talk, most Colorado growers use Gavati lights. So quit acting like you know something about lights....


All my friends can confirm that I'm a lousy actor, so I just stick to the facts.


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## GrowHydro2193 (Nov 20, 2014)

optimizes space i would say


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## legallyflying (Nov 23, 2014)

Four pounds from one thousand watt bulb.... Uh huh..

We typically talk about dried wieght. And we don't weigh out stalks and pots.


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## grayhairs (Dec 1, 2014)

You see a lot of these guys are now tying these plants to the wall in a small spaces. Notice how much cleaner and uniform the growing space is, no string holding up big collars, each part of the plant that is exposed to the light has the same size uniform colars, and is the same distant from the light. Im not a vert grower but the implication of this new technique is obvious to an experienced grower. Although one bloke is having a little whinge about getting burnt from exposed bulbs, it must be a god send to be able to walk straight into the centre of your crop when the light is off or moved and start tending to your babies. As trees grow the back parts of your grow cabinet becomes less and less accessible, the access a vertical grow offers if done properly must be quite a luxury, same applies for accessing pots/reservoirs/fans. Spend 10 miuntes in a tent in summer trying to figure out your ducting from a cooltube and youll soon see its advantages....


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## Merlin34 (Dec 1, 2014)

Yea... Vert is nice.

Sent from Northern Colorado.


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## zor (Dec 25, 2014)

one of the biggest benefits of vert growing for me is the ability to run multiple strains at the same without as big of a hit on the yield as with a horizontal garden. That being said, i do feel that vert setups can be harder to manage than say, a horizontal sog that is accesible on all sides. And although the canopy on a vert has more surface area, this alone does not guarentee more yield. The light intensity is much less at the canopy with vert, but you also have more uniformity of light with vert. So its a trade off that can in the right hands, pay off with increased yield. IME However, i don't believe there is a 'better' way as good growers can yield well in both styles of canopy management.


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## ttystikk (Dec 25, 2014)

zor said:


> one of the biggest benefits of vert growing for me is the ability to run multiple strains at the same without as big of a hit on the yield as with a horizontal garden. That being said, i do feel that vert setups can be harder to manage than say, a horizontal sog that is accesible on all sides. And although the canopy on a vert has more surface area, this alone does not guarentee more yield. The light intensity is much less at the canopy with vert, but you also have more uniformity of light with vert. So its a trade off that can in the right hands, pay off with increased yield. IME However, i don't believe there is a 'better' way as good growers can yield well in both styles of canopy management.


If your light intensity levels are low, your setup design is to blame and not the fact that it's vertical.

It is true that good canopy management for yield optimization takes practice, but again that's true for any grow, vertical or not.


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## zor (Dec 25, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> If your light intensity levels are low, your setup design is to blame and not the fact that it's vertical.
> 
> It is true that good canopy management for yield optimization takes practice, but again that's true for any grow, vertical or not.


I didn't mean to imply that vert grows have TOO low of a light level intensity. I'm alluding to the fact that with a reflector, you have MORE light intensity at a given distance from a bulb. With a reflector, you are concentrating more light into a smaller canopy (albeit your losing some of that intensity to the reflector as well.) This is not to say that one way is better, i personally have had both shitty and good grows with both styles. There's a trade off when you increase the canopy size (whether it be a horizontal or vertical grow). Whether or not the trade off is worth it is in the hands of the grower. Some people kill it with more watts/ft of canopy and others kill it with more less watts/ft of canopy.

In summation, vertical growing no doubt gets you more canopy area AND more efficiency from the bulb than when using a reflector. However, ime, its up to the skills of the grower to leverage this fact for more yields.. hope that makes sense.


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## nomofatum (Dec 25, 2014)

He has a point. For a vertical design to make sense you need more than just an overhead light. You need side lighting or lighting levels at the bottom of the plant will be but a fraction of what the top of the plant receives. Longer/bigger grows need different lighting designs than short bush grows. Side lighting would be a must for a vertical grow, IMHO, just conceptually(scientifically thinking), haven't tried a vert yet.


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## ttystikk (Dec 25, 2014)

zor said:


> I didn't mean to imply that vert grows have TOO low of a light level intensity. I'm alluding to the fact that with a reflector, you have MORE light intensity at a given distance from a bulb. With a reflector, you are concentrating more light into a smaller canopy (albeit your losing some of that intensity to the reflector as well.) This is not to say that one way is better, i personally have had both shitty and good grows with both styles. There's a trade off when you increase the canopy size (whether it be a horizontal or vertical grow). Whether or not the trade off is worth it is in the hands of the grower. Some people kill it with more watts/ft of canopy and others kill it with more less watts/ft of canopy.
> 
> In summation, vertical growing no doubt gets you more canopy area AND more efficiency from the bulb than when using a reflector. However, ime, its up to the skills of the grower to leverage this fact for more yields.. hope that makes sense.


Leveraging efficiency for yields is the name of the game.

Still, I've never seen someone be unable to get a desired watts/lumens per unit of surface area just due to its vertical nature.

If the wattage is low, the silo shrinks and surface area is effectively managed. If wattage is high, two options have been proven effective; either increase diameter to increase surface area out move the lamp up and down to achieve the same thing- or even a bit of both.

There is at least as much inherent versatility to vertical systems as there is in flatlander grows- and I'll be willing to bet more, because we're finally working in 3D.

Case in point; my own silos are 5' dia x pi = 16' x 6' tall = 96 ft². Lit by two HPS thouies, that's 2kW/100= 20w/ft²... yet no part of the trellis is ever more than 36" from a filament, and usually closer to 30". And then they stretch to within a foot, lol

I realize that's a lot less than the 50w/ft² recommended by overhead fixture manufacturers, but you'll notice they never, ever compare their hoods to a bare bulb. The simple explanation is that bare lamps are so much better than a sealed flashlight box that they'd be embarrassed by the comparison- and lose sales!


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## ttystikk (Dec 25, 2014)

nomofatum said:


> He has a point. For a vertical design to make sense you need more than just an overhead light. You need side lighting or lighting levels at the bottom of the plant will be but a fraction of what the top of the plant receives. Longer/bigger grows need different lighting designs than short bush grows. Side lighting would be a must for a vertical grow, IMHO, just conceptually(scientifically thinking), haven't tried a vert yet.


And in fact the whole advantage to vertical growing is the ability to light the plant from the side instead of from above. This is an advantage because you'll get more working surface area than with horizontal approaches.


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## nomofatum (Dec 25, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> And in fact the whole advantage to vertical growing is the ability to light the plant from the side instead of from above. This is an advantage because you'll get more working surface area than with horizontal approaches.


I imagine a room lined in T5HO bulbs on all sides but the floor would be ideal. Or a grid of LEDs in similar arrangement.


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## ttystikk (Dec 25, 2014)

nomofatum said:


> I imagine a room lined in T5HO bulbs on all sides but the floor would be ideal. Or a grid of LEDs in similar arrangement.


For a taste of how that might look, check out @RM3 and his grow chamber; it's basically a three sided 'coffinbox' of 4' HO T5 bulbs, alternating in spectra to get the perfect mix. Shit is tighter than a snare drum.


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## nomofatum (Dec 25, 2014)

And make the plant supports out of rope lights? Am I going too far yet?


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## ttystikk (Dec 25, 2014)

nomofatum said:


> And make the plant supports out of rope lights? Am I going too far yet?


As long as they emit good spectrum and don't get hot... lol

I have watched the LED lighting industry go for ever higher wattages of chips in an effort to match the light intensity of other sources.

This is good, but it makes me wonder about the opposite; if you could run blankets full of cool quarter or half watt LEDs covering the plants- yes, in contact with leaves and growing sites- you could put light exactly wherever you want it. I'm even envisioning tubular light condoms for big colas!

How's THAT for far out?! And yet, I'll guarantee it's possible. I just couldn't say whether it would be effective...


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## Merlin34 (Dec 25, 2014)

I like that... Get those 6 foot plant stakes but with leds in them...

Sent from Northern Colorado.


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## nomofatum (Dec 25, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> As long as they emit good spectrum and don't get hot... lol
> 
> I have watched the LED lighting industry go for ever higher wattages of chips in an effort to match the light intensity of other sources.
> 
> ...


There are a bunch of them that are actually in good spectrums. The 3000k and 6500k leds emit a spectrum that is wonderful for plant growth. I'm not going vert, so I don't expect any use in the idea, but the only space you aren't lighting well with the coffin is the middle (between plants), if it's big enough to have a middle. It's either strip/rope lights or some mystical looking orbs,lol, to bring us back to optimal.

If you pick the right light you can hit 120/lm watt and they are small enough to be in direct contact.


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## ttystikk (Dec 25, 2014)

The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades...


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## Joedank (Dec 25, 2014)

i set up lights both ways and my greenhouse management books put a 1000w in a 8x8' zone as a primary light source and put 10'x10' as secondary (wintersun assisted) source. i know the inverse sq law says blablabla but from experience.... 8'foot sq for 1000w horizontal is ok BUT due to the LARGE NATURE of DEEP rooted cannabis .
a 1000 WATT fixture on a 4ft light track in your greenhouse with the blackout tarps down is sososososo much better.
but you gotta plan ahead or bak into horizontal REFLECTED light they go....


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## meetjoeblow (Jan 27, 2015)

I know Im kinda late but I would love to chime in....
pros
horizontal lighting gives you ALOT more coverage like literally more than double.
better yields
and a better heat distribution.
its also easier to run different genetics because you don't have to worry about canopy height variations
but
(cons)
horizontal grows are more difficult. and sometimes the plants stretch beyond the capacity of one bulb so you will see a lot of growers utilizing two. one hanging lower than the other.
the plants need a different prune as well imo. since the back of the plant doesn't receive light you have to ,or rather you should, prune all back branches (and when I say back im reffering to the edge for those planning to use more than 2 lights). and since the front stalks grow towards the lights big front stalks would force you to move the plant back which would put the side branches at a disadvantage (whom out number the front stalks so it doesn't really make since to keep em).
this makes it harder to apply techniques such as fimming, lst, or even a simple toping can become complex..

but in my opinion, if you can get the pruning techniques down, and set up a vertical scrogg to go along with it, your yields would go to the moon


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## listmann (Jan 28, 2015)

Damn good thread! you guys pretty much have me convinced. Been thinking bout vert growing maybe beeing an advantage for years but never had the courage to try. Besides i am not shure my tent is suitable 

I run a 1.2*1,2 metre tent (2metres high)
Its perfect for a horizontal grow and i've been perfecting the technique for years. I usually pull like 500 grames of dried flower, sometimes even 600! (Sometimes only 400)

Dooing a little math that tent would be too small for a vertical grow am i right?

Cant help but think the plants would need to much room from the sides of the wall and grow to close in on the light even i i DO use a cool tube (wich i do)

This whole thing is VERY interesting but i will ned some more gram/w testimonials on 600w hps because from this thread i find numbers hard to believe...
How much gram/w of good TOTALLY cured and dried bud (exclusing the mini buds too small to smoke) is it realistic to pull in a vert with a 600w light and what should the optimum room/tent size be? I am thinking something along the lines of 150*150cm and 2 metres high. (Yes i know i calculate in metres im sorry, european lol.)

My room is big enough only for two 1.2*1.2 metre tents OR one 2*2 metre tent.

I pull 800 - 1000 grams of dried bud total in the two tents - using 600w each ofcourse.

Would it be an advantage to get a 2*2 metre tent 2 metres high, get 1000w in the middle and do a vert? And if, how big of an advantage do you suppose? As opposed to my current setup?

Shit nevermind i am making a new post on it


----------



## leroy69 (Jun 13, 2015)

brimck325 said:


> i pulled over 20 oz off my first vert under a 600.....def. a great yielding way to grow!


one plant?


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## brimck325 (Jun 13, 2015)

No, several....I think 8.


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## leroy69 (Jun 13, 2015)

brimck325 said:


> No, several....I think 8.


so 2.5 oz a plant


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## brimck325 (Jun 14, 2015)

That would be average. There was another plant I didn't weigh due to it being seeded...on purpose. 2 lbs. is attainable if using multiple lights.


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## leroy69 (Jun 14, 2015)

brimck325 said:


> That would be average. There was another plant I didn't weigh due to it being seeded...on purpose. 2 lbs. is attainable if using multiple lights.


how many lights?


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## harris hawk (Jun 15, 2015)

To increase yields one must use "side lighting" also your yield depends on strain grown - there are some 2 lbs-ers plants (PM me)


----------



## jigfresh (Jun 15, 2015)

leroy69 said:


> how many lights?


Exactly 9 lights.


----------



## leroy69 (Jun 15, 2015)

harris hawk said:


> To increase yields one must use "side lighting" also your yield depends on strain grown - there are some 2 lbs-ers plants (PM me)


im a first time grower 5 weeks into flowers two plants, i grew them two big, so the buds close to the light are biggest and where the light is not reaching the small as. lol. learning curve


----------



## harris hawk (Jun 15, 2015)

jigfresh said:


> Exactly 9 lights.


type of side lighting CFL's ? wattage ? 500 watters work well


----------



## harris hawk (Jun 15, 2015)

jigfresh said:


> Exactly 9 lights.


You can increase yields by at least 50% or more by side lighting a must for indoors grows, but must use properly; need to consider lighting adjustment while plant is growing


----------



## jigfresh (Jun 15, 2015)

I was joking around. I thought growing vertically was basically side lighting everything, so not sure how to add side lighting to side lighting. But it sounds like a plan. More light = more bud. Or course it also means more heat and less space for plants. Everything's a trade off.


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## ttystikk (Jun 15, 2015)

jigfresh said:


> I was joking around. I thought growing vertically was basically side lighting everything, so not sure how to add side lighting to side lighting. But it sounds like a plan. More light = more bud. Or course it also means more heat and less space for plants. Everything's a trade off.


Personally, I think side lighting is a band aid solution for a lousy setup design. This is especially true of vertical growing.

You want yield? Get some watts on the job! Thirty W/ft² or more is what it's going to take to get decent results. Yes, in vertical grows it's all side lighting. That doesn't mean it isn't still your primary light source.


----------



## OGEvilgenius (Jun 21, 2015)

2x600w = perfect for a vertical grow. You stack em relatively close - I have mine a little over a ft apart and you get the added intensity and then some from a reflector to get to some of the lower sites. Makes your trees really shine. Also some strains tend to more even expend energy - lowers get bigger anyway. Genetics helps.


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## HappyMan420 (Jun 23, 2015)

courtesy of camp vostok


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## legallyflying (Jul 21, 2015)

The biggest benefit to vertical growing is A. Going blind when your shades fall off
B. Burning the back of your neck on a hot bulb.


Oh yeah, I guess mega yields are kind of cool as well.


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## MrMeanGreen (Aug 7, 2015)

HappyMan420 said:


> View attachment 3446659
> courtesy of camp vostok


Now put a 600w in each corner and your canopy just more than doubled again.


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## HappyMan420 (Aug 8, 2015)

more lights wouldn't add surface area to the canopy, although they would probably increase the yield


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## dude9000 (Oct 24, 2015)

Jesus does not approve of vertical grows.


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## ttystikk (Oct 24, 2015)

dude9000 said:


> Jesus does not approve of vertical grows.


Mother Nature does not approve of Jesus.


----------



## NebulousPLM (Oct 24, 2015)

Really helpful thread for those looking into vert grows. This almost has me convinced


----------



## legallyflying (Oct 29, 2015)

Yeah, don't do vertical grows. I mean, why would you want 4x the canopy? 

We hung some 1k over our biggest vert plants last run. Fucking 3lb blue dreams  

It's like McDonald's over here. I'm loving it!


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 29, 2015)

legallyflying said:


> Yeah, don't do vertical grows. I mean, why would you want 4x the canopy?
> 
> We hung some 1k over our biggest vert plants last run. Fucking 3lb blue dreams
> 
> It's like McDonald's over here. I'm loving it!


Shhhhhhh.... we'll just keep it our little secret... weapon.


----------



## NebulousPLM (Oct 29, 2015)

legallyflying said:


> Yeah, don't do vertical grows. I mean, why would you want 4x the canopy?
> 
> We hung some 1k over our biggest vert plants last run. Fucking 3lb blue dreams
> 
> It's like McDonald's over here. I'm loving it!


That's amazing! 
Can you detail this out a little more? 
How many plants , watts , soil/hydro?


----------



## legallyflying (Oct 31, 2015)

Sorry upon request I'm keeping it a secret 

Welcome to the new world of legal weed..

It's not like you could strut into KFC and say "damn, this chicken is the shit, could I please have the recipe"

Besides, there is already a thread and I'm busy trying to secure a fucking water right for our 70 year old well at the WH. Or I could just hook up to city water. I was told 30k for that on Friday.


----------



## ttystikk (Oct 31, 2015)

legallyflying said:


> Sorry upon request I'm keeping it a secret
> 
> Welcome to the new world of legal weed..
> 
> ...


LOL that's the REAL world of legal growing, right there! 'Please pay this amount'.


----------



## legallyflying (Nov 1, 2015)

^ word. So many of these fuck nuts have NO fucking clue how much cash it takes. There was a thread the other day.. I have 30k and want to start a commerical grow. Lol. Where? In your parents house. 

It's all good I suppose, keeps the economy going and all but jesus fucking christ, sometimes I am absolutely blown away by the cash that flows OUT. 

"DUDE, we spent 80k in July and august!! Wtf dud we spend 80k on? 

" well there was rent, electrical bills, we bought two new air cons, fertilizer for nutes, paid the trimmers for two rounds, gor some new cameras installed, re plumbed the veg room, bought some hoods.... it was 80k, here are the receipts..let's just keep.moving forward.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 1, 2015)

legallyflying said:


> ^ word. So many of these fuck nuts have NO fucking clue how much cash it takes. There was a thread the other day.. I have 30k and want to start a commerical grow. Lol. Where? In your parents house.
> 
> It's all good I suppose, keeps the economy going and all but jesus fucking christ, sometimes I am absolutely blown away by the cash that flows OUT.
> 
> ...


I saw nutes on that list. PLEASE tell me you're not buying hydro store nutes for an op your size?


----------



## CC Dobbs (Nov 1, 2015)

TwistItUp said:


> What are the benefits of vertical growing?
> A list of pro's and con's if you can please.
> It seems like you can do more with what you have as far as lighting, but it also seems like complicating things.


List:
Pro's:
Vertical is the way of the future.
Vertical growth really pisses off gravity and who doesn't like to piss off gravity.
Vertical growth gives you an advantage over horizontal growth.

Con's:
Vertical growth is really tall.
There can be a lot of wind at the top of the plants and you could be blown off your ladder.
If the plants get too tall your can't see the tops and don't know when to harvest.


----------



## CC Dobbs (Nov 1, 2015)

legallyflying said:


> ^ word. So many of these fuck nuts have NO fucking clue how much cash it takes. There was a thread the other day.. I have 30k and want to start a commerical grow. Lol. Where? In your parents house.
> 
> It's all good I suppose, keeps the economy going and all but jesus fucking christ, sometimes I am absolutely blown away by the cash that flows OUT.
> 
> ...


Who the fuck cares?


----------



## VTMi'kmaq (Nov 1, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> Oh it is huge. Its 4 times the space i really need. But its a unfinished bathroom in my basement, 4 walls, a plug, and a drain concrete floor. The buckets sit on the floor with the plants around the bulb. Its hanging from the ceiling. Little turbo fan on the floor blowing at the bulb. Box fan in the room for air circulation and a 6 inch duct fan for extraction.
> 
> Its hard to say how long they veg. I start all clones in solo hempy cups. I veg 4 in the 3.5 gallon for 4 weeks under a 4 bulb t5 with 4 t5 side lighting. Normally clones are in the cups for a bit under some cfls. They get root bound. But i always have 4 clones of each of the 3 strains. And this is a perpetual grow. I harvest once a week. (which amounts to plucking the fan leaves and hanging her whole in the dry box for a weeks to 10 days)
> 
> Now these pics are from when i first transitioned from soil to hempy. I found the sunkist bottles to be to large to fill between transplants so moved to dixie cups.


 SO in a room like this for example? you'd need to what rotate the canopy for equal light distribution to each plant? Or maybe supplimental lighting on the very outside? just curious about verts. Bare bulb H.i.d s especially.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 1, 2015)

CC Dobbs said:


> Who the fuck cares?


Me, for one. You're just jelly and feeling inadequate, so you gotta spray paint some bullshit on the wall of this thread. Grow up- and go away until you do. No one wants to listen to you whine.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 1, 2015)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> SO in a room like this for example? you'd need to what rotate the canopy for equal light distribution to each plant? Or maybe supplimental lighting on the very outside? just curious about verts. Bare bulb H.i.d s especially.


Read the thread in my signature line.


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## CC Dobbs (Nov 1, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Me, for one. You're just jelly and feeling inadequate, so you gotta spray paint some bullshit on the wall of this thread. Grow up- and go away until you do. No one wants to listen to you whine.


I comment for my own pleasure and can only feel joy that it disturbs you.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 1, 2015)

CC Dobbs said:


> I comment for my own pleasure and can only feel joy that it disturbs you.


'Ignore'


----------



## legallyflying (Nov 2, 2015)

^ exactly. Funny thing is, it's douche bags like this that will eventually click your profile and read your other posts. 

Ttystck.. I'm telling you man, the dwc likes the fucking colder water. We dropped down into the 65's.. never looked better. Actually shit is actually fucking blowing up like a mother fucker. Ober the weekend, had to be alost a foot of new growth.. scrambling to flip these beasts. 

Blue dream is a growers dream and we have a standing 6lb a week order from a chain here. 

A week ago those preveg plants were a foot tall!!!


----------



## thewanderer718 (Nov 3, 2015)

legallyflying said:


> ^ exactly. Funny thing is, it's douche bags like this that will eventually click your profile and read your other posts.
> 
> Ttystck.. I'm telling you man, the dwc likes the fucking colder water. We dropped down into the 65's.. never looked better. Actually shit is actually fucking blowing up like a mother fucker. Ober the weekend, had to be alost a foot of new growth.. scrambling to flip these beasts.
> 
> ...


Beautiful setup !!!!!!!!!!


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## tokalotapot (Nov 3, 2015)

i was just telling my buddy that same shit about blue dream. i get like 3 times the clones than others because she is a monster. dam near impossible to keep small under any light she bushes and blows up


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## NebulousPLM (Nov 3, 2015)

legallyflying said:


> Sorry upon request I'm keeping it a secret
> 
> Welcome to the new world of legal weed..
> 
> ...


That's fine man, was just asking... But that could've done without the snide remarks.
We're all here to learn, pull your pants back up. 

Regardless though, you guys are killin' it. Good luck on the commercial grow.


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## legallyflying (Nov 3, 2015)

Yeah. It's a pretty sweat strain. We aggresive trim them for sure. Filled an entire 50 gallon garage can with trimmings off of 40 plants. Last round tested at 24 or 25% combined cannabanoids so we have a good cut. 

And she yields! 2 per plant average. Fucking GS platinum on the last round... 7.5 pounds from 6 plants  
Me... "so basically running that strain cost is about 10k in lost revenue?" 
My partner "yeah but it's pretty"
Me... "so are some hookers but I wouldn't spend 10k on them"


----------



## legallyflying (Nov 3, 2015)

NebulousPLM said:


> That's fine man, was just asking... But that could've done without the snide remarks.
> We're all here to learn, pull your pants back up.
> 
> Regardless though, you guys are killin' it. Good luck on the commercial grow.


The snide comments are just us having fun. Which is pretty much the only reason that keeps some of the full time guys coming back to post.


----------



## NebulousPLM (Nov 3, 2015)

legallyflying said:


> The snide comments are just us having fun. Which is pretty much the only reason that keeps some of the full time guys coming back to post.


I'll consider it a not-so-friendly welcome, but a welcome nonetheless, to RUI then, ha.


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## ttystikk (Nov 3, 2015)

legallyflying said:


> Yeah. It's a pretty sweat strain. We aggresive trim them for sure. Filled an entire 50 gallon garage can with trimmings off of 40 plants. Last round tested at 24 or 25% combined cannabanoids so we have a good cut.
> 
> And she yields! 2 per plant average. Fucking GS platinum on the last round... 7.5 pounds from 6 plants
> Me... "so basically running that strain cost is about 10k in lost revenue?"
> ...


Bitches don't put out the yield they get kicked to the curb. Too many good strains nowadays yield just fine to have to put up with that.


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## ttystikk (Nov 3, 2015)

NebulousPLM said:


> I'll consider it a not-so-friendly welcome, but a welcome nonetheless, to RUI then, ha.


That's better! Buck up, mate- we'll only bust your balls if we like you!


----------



## jigfresh (Nov 11, 2015)

NebulousPLM said:


> I'll consider it a not-so-friendly welcome, but a welcome nonetheless, to RUI then, ha.


 In all seriousness this is very high up on the scale of warm welcomes to this site lol.

Welcome... I hope you grow some real nice dank. And I like your BL avatar.


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## cannabiscult666 (Nov 11, 2015)

Holy shit jig! Just saw your sn..sorry to pop in on the thread...pm me brother lets catch up


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## m4s73r (Nov 16, 2015)

VTMi'kmaq said:


> SO in a room like this for example? you'd need to what rotate the canopy for equal light distribution to each plant? Or maybe supplimental lighting on the very outside? just curious about verts. Bare bulb H.i.d s especially.


Naa, rotating a canopy is a waste of time and plant energy. she'll get herself into the best position.


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## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> Naa, rotating a canopy is a waste of time and plant energy. she'll get herself into the best position.


I respectfully disagree. The more work I do to train my plants, the better returns I get. Letting them grow wild doesn't do yield any more good vertically than it does horizontally.


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## m4s73r (Nov 16, 2015)

Oh no, yeah defiantly train your canopy, i thought we were talking about rotating the whole plant. Do you remember that thread about the plants on spinners to rotate continuously? that was craziness. But yeah train your plants into your screen. But growing them free standing with out a screen its better to leave them be. When i didnt use a screen id cut the backside of the plant off and then just stake it.


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## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> Oh no, yeah defiantly train your canopy, i thought we were talking about rotating the whole plant. Do you remember that thread about the plants on spinners to rotate continuously? that was craziness. But yeah train your plants into your screen. But growing them free standing with out a screen its better to leave them be. When i didnt use a screen id cut the backside of the plant off and then just stake it.


Occasionally the idea of rotating the whole plant comes up. I listen patiently until the part about supporting it comes up. I'm not biting until I get a good answer for that one and I haven't heard it yet.

For that matter, I'm gonna go out on a limb- as it were- and say that I've never personally seen a large plant shift position on a daily basis. Maybe my travelogue missed the land of rotating trees...


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## Darth Vapour (Nov 16, 2015)

I think people forget that we're talking about plants here and we all do this for our own reason, whether you're a hobbyist or this is your living, we're all after the same thing - the best results and the best numbers.

The reason I came here to talk about this is simply because I think it's wrong that vert is portrayed by some to be so much more efficient in practice than horizontal. I think there's very little between them. yields horizontal can't compete with" should be tied in with the reality that, in practice and for many reasons, horizontal often out-yields it.
Vertical growing comes with some serious challenges, and it's those challenges that stop it from being the hyper efficient super yielder that a lot of people go into it thinking it will be. 

It's those challenges which ultimately balance the scales with horizontal, and mean that in the end the results don't marry up with statistics like "135% more growing area" If they did, there's be no debate. Are we seeing 135 percent more YIELD not a fucking chance 
You've got to factor in the work involved, training and low plant numbers, at the risk of repeating myself, I'm talking about topping a plant, vegging it to 18" or so, and flipping it and being able to guarantee a minimum yield of top buds from that. I honestly don't think you can do that with a vertical unless you're surrounding the plant with bulbs. 
This isn't about small plants and high numbers being necessary to negate the training aspect of it all. I'm saying 12-18" plants, topped early and vegged strong, if you were to put them in either system to be left to their own devices under a single bulb, flat gives more consistent and reliable results. Imo.


----------



## Darth Vapour (Nov 16, 2015)

For me, the whole vertical = bigger yields is just a myth which has run wild since heath pulled that fantastic 2gpw grow. People are chasing the dream and failing time after time, that's just a fact evidenced by the average results of every documented vertical grow on the internet. 

A lot of people are doing 0.5gpw, but are reluctant to change the system because of what's possible, not what is ever likely to happen.

Yes, in a system like that, done to perfection, you can pull ridiculous numbers. But who runs a system like that, really? 

People need to know that vertical is a responsibility which requires time and knowledge and commitment to pull off even 1gpw... 

I honestly would advise any new grower looking to safely and consistently hit close to that figure of good quality A grade buds, to grow horizontally.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> For me, the whole vertical = bigger yields is just a myth which has run wild since heath pulled that fantastic 2gpw grow. People are chasing the dream and failing time after time, that's just a fact evidenced by the average results of every documented vertical grow on the internet.
> 
> A lot of people are doing 0.5gpw, but are reluctant to change the system because of what's possible, not what is ever likely to happen.
> 
> ...


Vertical growing doesn't change the laws of physics, it doesn't magically double output... except in one way; per square foot. If that's important to the grower, vertical is an excellent choice. Nothing magical about it; nothing new, either.

As usual, barf vapid is stirring a strange brew of false assumptions just to see what kind of reaction he gets.


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## m4s73r (Nov 16, 2015)

See youre still stuck on horizontal. If youre growing vertical why would you top? I have 2 stacked 600s. im wanting my plants to stretch to at least 5.5 foot. So you veg for 120 days. Nothing magical here at all. Its just a different technique. Vertical brings direct lighting to the plant. Where as horizontal is direct/reflected lighting. So by turning the bulb vertical, removing the reflector/Glass, im getting better light to the plants. Nothing reflected. No Glass between bulb and plant. Nevermind that I dont have 2 huge reflectors traping heat in my grow area. Or that it costs less on set up. (vertical socket is $35 vs the $120-200/Reflector)

My Cage is 9x5 or 45 sq ft. its in a 5x5 space. 4 plants 20 gall no till. 
If i was to change this to a horizontal grow, at best i would have a 25 sq ft space. and only one 1k light. I would also be limited to the size of plants i could grow. 

Vertical has better use of over all growing space. Period.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2015)

My veg is 90 days or less, fresh cut to bloom ready. I'm thinking I can still reduce that without hurting yields.


----------



## PKHydro (Nov 16, 2015)

5 week veg is all I need to grow monsters.


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2015)

PKHydro said:


> 5 week veg is all I need to grow monsters.


Meaning, how many zips of fully cured patient ready medicine per plant?


----------



## Darth Vapour (Nov 16, 2015)

PKHydro said:


> 5 week veg is all I need to grow monsters.


exactly 5 weeks horizontal growers grow trees also right ? this thread is about pros n cons there is some pro;s if your limited to space then by all means giver on Vertical but to say its the better way to get better yields i beg to differ,, your going to need to spend lots of time training plants 

M4S i was refering to putting 12 plants vegged 3 weeks both vertical one bulb lets say 600 watts and one 600 watt horizontal i suggested top once but lets not only thing grower does is water and leaves plants to grow on its own un touch plant which do you think would yield better just saying


----------



## Darth Vapour (Nov 16, 2015)

Number 1 The majority of the heat produced by the HID is pushed upwards to your exhaust vs the horizontal hood that traps heat and directs it at your plant's. The main advantage to this is that you can put your plants closer to your bulb's without worrying about burning them, 1 grower I know can get his plants up to 6" from his 1000w bulb but keeps them back a few more inches due to the buds getting bleached from to much light!!

Debunk time  is it that bad that heat is directed to plants ??? for every 10 degree rise in plant temps the plants metobolic rate doubles this means incredible growth  
no need to put lights close to plants if a bulb was 2 " away from plant or 14 " its throwing the same power i have run 1000's 12 - 14" from tops with cool air blowing between tops and light but again no need to 23 " is perfect still get a good spread 


Number 2 The next benefit of vertical growing is that you will be using 360o of your light, you want to absolutely cover the outer diameter of the bulb with plants so barely any light can escape, this will give you the best efficiency, you will be blasting your plants with as many lumen's as possible. Compare this method to a horizontal garden, if you look at the diagrams you can see that a massive 75% of the light is reflected thus killing a lot of lumen's in the process, lumen's that I'd prefer getting to my plants, and after all less lumen's = less yield and we don't want that now do we!

Debunk time simple any light shinning 360 degrees will in fact lose umol readings 
anyone got par reader i dare yea to turn on that light and check par readings 6 " 10" 20 : away 
Comparing that to a reflected light getting all of the light directed one way 
Again Which way do you think would win as in par 600 horizontal with reflector 6 " 10 " 20 " 
put your money on the horizontal for better par readings 
i like how its says 75 percent of the light is reflected thus losing lumens lol lumens are for humans 
again anyone got a par reader ??? check it out you might be shocked ..
oh by the way most good reflectors you lose 5 percent compared to losing the intensity 360 degrees 


Benefit Number 3, This next benefit is for space, the amount of space you save by growing is phenomenal, a 600w lamp would be fit for a 4X4 area at very most, and even this is only a low 37.5 watts per square foot. compare this to a vertical set up, you could have a vert system 3 foot in diameter but 8 foot high and fill it with 300 plants have 5 of these in one room......ya get the idea? 

Debunk time 300 plants one bulb 3 foot by 8 high giving you what ??? anyone ???? 30 watts or less per 24 Sq feet lot less then 37.5 watts in that given 16 Sq foot imprint and your going to out yield i know now wonder everyone says trees there stretched to fuck omg this is amazing god dam i am going to be the next Pablo ..
Yea Yea keep thinking that 

Vertical growing has been done for some time now the ones that are killing it are the ones doing multiple lights but again do not dismiss horizontal cause there are many multiple light warehouses bringing in tonnage also..
So what are the numbers you donut drilling single bulb 600 or 1000s pulling down ??? lol


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2015)

You know exactly not one whit about that which you blather, lol

The extra labour time to train? Wrong. Vertical means no bending over our under a flatlander ScrOG.

Hundreds of plants?! Da fuk? I grow six plants in a six by nine space.

I could go on and on, but it's like talking to the carnival monkey.

You do it your way, I'll do it mine.


----------



## Darth Vapour (Nov 16, 2015)

I see you feel offended with what i posted ???
this can be a very good thread but its people like you that turn it into a closed thread ,, 
i must of hit a nerve speaking the truth its great when the donut growers all chime in and talk about the great things about vert dismissing the cons as rubish shows your experience there guy none right 
but again its about the numbers veg time and what have you 
don't go into it thinking that the light chart and 135% more growing area translates easily into your final yield. It absolutely does not, and I think a lot of people are fooled into thinking that way by the fact that vertical growing is projected using figures such as those.

Do it because you want to try something new, but not because it's a way to guarantee bigger or even better yields, because in my experience it isn't. You only have to do your reading to see that for many other people, it isn't either.

It is a cool way to grow, and fun. But it's got to be projected properly and the truth I think gets lost a bit in the myth.

With a nice long columnar strain though, it can be a cracking way to get the most out of it. I thnk vert really comes into it's own in that instance.


----------



## jigfresh (Nov 17, 2015)

No one is offended. You just don't know what you are talking about. Plain and simple. 

.... but good effort. Sounds like your gears are really grinding up there on the 'myth of vert'. Go get em tiger.

Whatever you do... please just go away, guy. You are rude, have nothing positive to share, and are just in this thread to talk negatively about it's premise and the people in it. Not to mention you are incoherent and a bit fanatic. You are not doing anyone any favors by spewing the trash you are. Why not start your own thread about the numerous thoughts you have? Seriously, it's easy, you just click the 'Post New Thread' button.

And to be clear, it is members like you who get threads shut down. People who go into a thread just to debase and go against everything everyone is saying are the people who make this site a shitty place. People like you who just go around starting fights in order to spread their gospel of truth, whatever that may be. Ttystikk is a valuable member of this community, and I've never seen him be anything but a good guy to everyone. You, guy, are the one throwing dirt in peoples faces, then trying to turn their response into a reaction.

Go throw your shade somewhere else, we don't want it or need it.


----------



## verticalgrow (Nov 17, 2015)

Vertical yields 4x times more then scrog, nuff said


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## Darth Vapour (Nov 17, 2015)

jigfresh said:


> No one is offended. You just don't know what you are talking about. Plain and simple.
> 
> .... but good effort. Sounds like your gears are really grinding up there on the 'myth of vert'. Go get em tiger.
> 
> ...





jigfresh said:


> No one is offended. You just don't know what you are talking about. Plain and simple.
> 
> .... but good effort. Sounds like your gears are really grinding up there on the 'myth of vert'. Go get em tiger.
> 
> ...



coming from a guy lol that did this ??? 

Numbers are in. Right about 6 oz. A little over a gram short. So 167 grams from 450 w of LED's.

If you use g/w, that's about 0.37 g/w. I would say my average in the closet using HID's was around 0.40-0.42, something like that. So using those numbers it's about 10% lower yield using g/w with the LED's vs HID's.

If one considers the electricity difference between the 6" 435 cfm I was running 24/7 with HIDs vs the 50 cfm bathroom fan I ran 24/7 I think the yield per electricity would be right on with the HID grows I've done.

haha seriously dude You know i came here all cool but it appears i rattled everyone i know i know truth hurts So yeah go ahead in your tight donut jerk group and bs each other on your yields lol 
2 
But yeah you sure killed it 450 watts of LED .37 GPW dude in all seriousness might be a good idea to get back to the basics cause you screwed up 
here 432 watts of T5 ho oh by the way its 32 oz;s grown horizontal


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## jigfresh (Nov 17, 2015)

I never said I was better than you. I said you were rude and had nothing to contribute. Thanks for proving my point.


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## Darth Vapour (Nov 17, 2015)

verticalgrow said:


> Vertical yields 4x times more then scrog, nuff said


 All talk prove it or its all BS honestly You know Vertical has been going on now for some years lets really see if it stacks up lets start hearing the numbers with pics or its all BS


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## Darth Vapour (Nov 17, 2015)

jigfresh said:


> I never said I was better than you. I said you were rude and had nothing to contribute. Thanks for proving my point.


Only thing i proved is you fucked up somewhere in your grow would you like me to find some journals horizontal ??? 450 watt led Yeah i thougt so 
Now go read some hordiculture books and learn how to grow 

PS i never said nothing that i grow better Although you already know lol but if your willing to start a fight with your comments towards me then you better at least have something to show not some pathetic thumb sized nugs and @ .37 lol


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## Darth Vapour (Nov 17, 2015)

Hey Jig fresh here i just had to 

Re: Mars II Reflector LED - Scrog - Grow Closet Journal
Total harvest from 5 plants: *450gr *:slide:


:yummy:


_Grapefruit_: *95gr*
https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/...0/SAM_8379.JPG https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/...0/SAM_8418.JPG


Critical+: *50gr*

https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/...0/SAM_8485.JPG https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/...0/SAM_8495.JPG
(smoked up part c+ before)


Amnesia Strawberry: *70gr*

https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/...0/SAM_8499.JPG https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/...0/SAM_8510.JPG


Pineapple Sativa(scrog): *106gr*

https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/...0/SAM_9143.JPG


Pineapple Sativa 2: *130gr


Yup vertical sure schooled horizontal like i said before some are killin it with multiple lighting but really when we start talking single bulb donut to single bulb horizontal well a 10 year old could figure it out i wanna here with all BS set aside what are single vert 600's and 1000's pulling cmon kids you vertcakes keep thinking you out yield horizontals lets compare results *


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## ttystikk (Nov 17, 2015)

Barf Vapid, up all night tilting at the 'myth' of vertical growing, lol

Don Quixote would be proud.


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## verticalgrow (Nov 17, 2015)

vertical 26x more yield, nuff said


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## Darth Vapour (Nov 17, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> My veg is 90 days or less, fresh cut to bloom ready. I'm thinking I can still reduce that without hurting yields.


 yeah keep thinking that your on the right track lol


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## Darth Vapour (Nov 17, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Barf Vapid, up all night tilting at the 'myth' of vertical growing, lol
> 
> Don Quixote would be proud.


 There is no tilting ?? what i posted above is a perfect example .37 GPW vertical yield compared horizontal i even used the so called bad mars LED and it yielded 450 grams compared to 167 total grams from 450 watt led vertical 
I never came in here trying to start anything like i said Do it because you want to try something new, but not because it's a way to guarantee bigger or even better yields, because in my experience it isn't. You only have to do your reading to see that for many other people, it isn't either.

It is a cool way to grow, and fun. But it's got to be projected properly and the truth I think gets lost a bit in the myth.


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## ttystikk (Nov 17, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> There is no tilting ?? what i posted above is a perfect example .37 GPW vertical yield compared horizontal i even used the so called bad mars LED and it yielded 450 grams compared to 167 total grams from 450 watt led vertical
> I never came in here trying to start anything like i said Do it because you want to try something new, but not because it's a way to guarantee bigger or even better yields, because in my experience it isn't. You only have to do your reading to see that for many other people, it isn't either.
> 
> It is a cool way to grow, and fun. But it's got to be projected properly and the truth I think gets lost a bit in the myth.


Kind of like when your girlfriend complains about sex with you being a pain in the ass, that low yield number would be because you're doing it wrong.


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## Darth Vapour (Nov 17, 2015)

No no sir i understand now that you have a mental disorder could this be why Give me a sec i go find the post lol where other people are doing your grow and your taking the credit for there work i see i will pm the guy see what he says about that and copy his post to here
brb.

PS Still patiently waiting to see some 600 vertcial / and 1000 watt vertical single bulb donut lmao yields 
Yo twisk curious in your single 4 x 6 sngle bulb grow haha with only what 4 weeks veg from fresh cuttings haha Fresh cutting does this mean you just went a took a cut nd 4 weeks later its one of your imaginary TREES 's ???


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## ttystikk (Nov 17, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> No no sir i understand now that you have a mental disorder could this be why Give me a sec i go find the post lol where other people are doing your grow and your taking the credit for there work i see i will pm the guy see what he says about that and copy his post to here
> brb.
> 
> PS Still patiently waiting to see some 600 vertcial / and 1000 watt vertical single bulb donut lmao yields
> Yo twisk curious in your single 4 x 6 sngle bulb grow haha with only what 4 weeks veg from fresh cuttings haha Fresh cutting does this mean you just went a took a cut nd 4 weeks later its one of your imaginary TREES 's ???


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## Darth Vapour (Nov 17, 2015)

Awe look what i found please tell us Twisk that this is going to be 2 pound harvest ?? or even 1 pound lol oh please please please 
And it amazes me what some people call trees haha specially in vertical section 
But seriously Twisk your BS has got to stop .... misleading people into thinking that if they go vert there yields are going to be better 
Here is a little reminder people it takes allot buds to make a pound actually 4 times more to make a pound ,, being 4 pounds wet will put you into 1 pound dry 
and Twisk that is no where close to 4 pounds wet let alone 1 pound dry 
Its all coming together your pretty green behind the Ear still but set in your ways, TWISK can't wait to here what it yielded lol ..

PS wanna see what a real pound plant looks like ? So pease Feed us some more first pic is yours lol


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## Darth Vapour (Nov 17, 2015)

awe Twisk wrong picture of your plant  lol yeah tell us this is single bulb grow haha 

and please tell us its a pound or 1200 dry grams i call BS here is your imaginary pound plant Yup dream on


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## PKHydro (Nov 17, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Meaning, how many zips of fully cured patient ready medicine per plant?


16-18 on average. Although I'm chopping a crop down tomorrow and I swear I have one plant that's gotta be 1.5lbs


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## ttystikk (Nov 17, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> awe Twisk wrong picture of your plant  lol yeah tell us this is single bulb grow haha
> 
> and please tell us its a pound or 1200 dry grams i call BS here is your imaginary pound plant Yup dream on View attachment 3544874


Ok, I call your bullshit. As soon as I know, I'll post exactly what 'the hydra' came to. Average of the three best guesses so far? Twenty zips. It's a naturally fluffy strain and we didn't fill in the rack completely, so no one thinks she's a record breaker.

To be completely clear, she was grown under only 30W/ft² of rather inefficient lighting, even if the CRI is stellar. Magnetic ballasts. Uneven climate control. No CO².

These problems are even now being addressed, with commensurate improvements in per plant and per crop yields expected.

Without boring with details, suffice to say that we're well on our way to proving that vertical growing is a completely normal approach to growing cannabis indoors.

If you like flatlander style so much, go play in those threads. I don't want anyone to read what you post here and accidentally believe any of it.


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## Darth Vapour (Nov 17, 2015)

believe any of it ???? lets see here i just read 600 watt vertical did 14 oz lol 
lets break this down so there is no confusion being you know how vertical is presented at so much more efficient, more space ,,
even a 4th grader could take it as there just plain n simple stating that its the better way to grow
But is it
So lets break this down 600 watt HPS achieved 14 oz which = 392 grams which really breaks it down to .65 GPW
Sir that is terrible efficiency and terrible results in real world that grow was a disaster 600 watt horizontal will pull you a pound for even the novice grower these days
Twisk dont be upset that i am speaking the truth lets not forget one thing here cowboy its vertical that came into the scene claiming it be superior to horizontal lighting , but its not true cause well if thats, the case then why is it not blowing Horizontal out of the water .. truth is NOT EVEN FUCKING CLOSE ..
keeping a open mind is key to success but what i am seeing is vertical growers have a narrow depth of perception ,, straight up horizontal single bulb vs vertical single bulb horizontal wins
remember you can only put so many plants in that donut and really speaking the truth how tall is the bulb and is there dead spots ??? and finally how much of the plant are you harvesting of Grade A bud and how much of the plant is LARF
here is a picture i found 1000 watt hid 2 - 400 CMH owe and by the way yet another .5 GPW grow or what said grower said he is achieving and admiringly states its not as effcient
what do you think 1800 watts lets say 1000 watt in middle and the 2 - 400's CMH on out side would accomplish horizontally ?? i would place bets a hell of lot better then .5
Twisk would you like me to find some more journals 
You all see that the few multi vertical growers are pulling some decent yields but again lets be realistic what the average grower will grow with 1 - 2 - 3 Lights 
See i am stating facts here .5 1800 watt grow is a fucking DISASTER grown Horizontally but i guess in the vert world you killed it lol
I just don't get it


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## Darth Vapour (Nov 17, 2015)

awe shit here 2000 watt horizontal and dude i killed it less then 2 week veg from 2 " clones that were suppose to be sold but guy never came n picked them up so just threw them in a make shift room 0 ventilation in the dead heat of summer lol and another this one 2000 5 x 10 scrog 2156 dry grams or 1.078 GPW 5 plants at that lol 
truth is even the the big Multi light guys very very few are hitting them numbers so which is Twisk 
Since i got that i am being rude comment i figure i am not going to be rude i am just going to ram it down vert growers throats Stay tuned going to post many vert grows and there GPW 

Its not my fault many cannot see the truth behind the Vertical Myth and like i said since heath's miracle GPW vertical grow let me remind you all 10 + years ago and the advancements in the lights and what have you surely someone would of matched or even beat his so called FAIRY tale numbers even with Critical mass 
Ask your self how come why hasn't it ??? owe and patiently waiting on some single donut vertical yields


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## ttystikk (Nov 17, 2015)

Barf Vapid, LOL 

Hasn't anyone told you, a wall of blather does not a valid argument make. 

700W of 28% efficient lighting, or about 400 PPfd, made that result in the pic.

That's a decent result no matter how it's oriented. The advantage to vertical isn't a magical increase in yield, it's a decrease in space required to get it.


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## NebulousPLM (Nov 17, 2015)

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=249228

^ A thread dedicated to vert. grows and their yeilds. A few bare bulb 1000w results.


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## ttystikk (Nov 17, 2015)

NebulousPLM said:


> https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=249228
> 
> ^ A thread dedicated to vert. grows and their yeilds. A few bare bulb 1000w results.


I love it, started three years ago... it absolutely kills me that no one in this industry is seriously investigating the technique right now.


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## m4s73r (Nov 17, 2015)

here is what made me go vertical. So when i was a younger chap, less experienced then I am now, I was blooming under a 8B T5 unit. had a 4 bulb for veg. I WAS ROCKING THAT SHIT. But it didnt put out enough. So I decided to get a 600 watt. But im cheap. I scrubed websites for the cheapest prices vs quality on and on forEVER. So i found my Ballast (Solistek still running). then i came across Heath Robinson. First let me say that the number of crazy hydro things i came up with was astounding. Sorta. I was really high. I digress. So all i had seen was people tearing apart cool tubes for barebulbs. Then i came across a vertical socket. 35 bucks. vs 190 i was about to spend on a reflector. Umm.... SOLD! Simple as that

So Barth, strip away all your wall o text about 135% or what ever you were talking about that i glazed over after 10 words, And that makes it Better. Its cheaper. you can say WHATEVER in the world you want about a vertical vs horizontal and the answer is still the same. Vertical is cheaper. Cheaper is better. Therefore Vertical wins. 

Also you are sorta coming off like a giant tool. You should stop that. Its ugly and doesnt make friends well. Socializing is great and one of the wonderful things about the internet. However youre asshatness totally kills that vibe. Stop that. Stop it now. 
TO THE CHOPPER! 

(see i can put random things in my posts to fuck with people too)


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## bdt1981 (Dec 9, 2015)

There is one vert coliseum gro with a bad ass aero ponic rail set up that got 2.5 gpw somewhere on here. His shit was bad ass tho kinda a hybrid vert horiz gro. Kinda. 
For real tho this thread just got better and better as the truth came out. I just want to know how much of the plant canopy is wasted in a vert gro with one whole side of the plant not getting used. And did i hear someone say 90 day veg? Unless its a major big scrog and kept very low its a complete waste of time. And the product is at best middle shelf quality. Weak bag appeal airy ass buds 90 day veg would be good if u had a huge pot and out out side. 

I had to jump in and say something didnt mean to intrude on anybodys vert roast..


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## bdt1981 (Dec 9, 2015)

Darth Vapour said:


> believe any of it ???? lets see here i just read 600 watt vertical did 14 oz lol
> lets break this down so there is no confusion being you know how vertical is presented at so much more efficient, more space ,,
> even a 4th grader could take it as there just plain n simple stating that its the better way to grow
> But is it
> ...


That looks like a mess of hammered shit


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## ttystikk (Dec 9, 2015)

I've figured out what vert does and does not do. It does not magically create extra light. It does not multiply the effectiveness of watts per square foot.

I know exactly what it does. It does something very important, but no one here seems to understand what that is.


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 9, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> here is what made me go vertical. So when i was a younger chap, less experienced then I am now, I was blooming under a 8B T5 unit. had a 4 bulb for veg. I WAS ROCKING THAT SHIT. But it didnt put out enough. So I decided to get a 600 watt. But im cheap. I scrubed websites for the cheapest prices vs quality on and on forEVER. So i found my Ballast (Solistek still running). then i came across Heath Robinson. First let me say that the number of crazy hydro things i came up with was astounding. Sorta. I was really high. I digress. So all i had seen was people tearing apart cool tubes for barebulbs. Then i came across a vertical socket. 35 bucks. vs 190 i was about to spend on a reflector. Umm.... SOLD! Simple as that
> 
> So Barth, strip away all your wall o text about 135% or what ever you were talking about that i glazed over after 10 words, And that makes it Better. Its cheaper. you can say WHATEVER in the world you want about a vertical vs horizontal and the answer is still the same. Vertical is cheaper. Cheaper is better. Therefore Vertical wins.
> 
> ...


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## Vnsmkr (Dec 9, 2015)

Vnsmkr said:


>


Blocked him before just because when I saw all the SHIT he posted I got angry, just for seeing his stupid ass words. If something aggravates me I tend to stay away from it 

Ignore ON


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## 209 Cali closet grower (Dec 9, 2015)

Nice


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## bdt1981 (Dec 10, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I've figured out what vert does and does not do. It does not magically create extra light. It does not multiply the effectiveness of watts per square foot.
> 
> I know exactly what it does. It does something very important, but no one here seems to understand what that is.


Saves space????? Cant we all just,Hit the Bong...


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## ttystikk (Dec 10, 2015)

bdt1981 said:


> Saves space????? Cant we all just,Hit the Bong...


....and we have a WINNER!


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## bdt1981 (Dec 10, 2015)

I myself wouldnt do it because i have space enough. It is true though i used to run 2 4×4 flood tables and they actually took up 54"×54". Bigger than u may think. But we used a 9×19 sun room and 3800 watts of light.

Now i ask what about big operations with multiple free hanging lights over a big ass room. Since the light is vertical is that considered a vertical grow?


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## m4s73r (Dec 10, 2015)

Not really. Vertical is the idea of lighting the side of the plant. Warehouse growers stay open bulb cause its cheaper in set up and easier to cool


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## bdt1981 (Dec 10, 2015)

m4s73r said:


> Not really. Vertical is the idea of lighting the side of the plant. Warehouse growers stay open bulb cause its cheaper in set up and easier to cool


Gotcha kinda thought but wasnt certain


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## qp2 (Dec 10, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> ....and we have a WINNER!


I wouldn't even go as far as saying it saves space, just arranges/uses it differently.



Darth Vapour said:


> See i am stating facts here .5 1800 watt grow is a fucking DISASTER grown Horizontally but i guess in the vert world you killed it lol
> I just don't get it
> 
> View attachment 3544962


Gee, I wonder why that grow only got 0.5g/w... I could cherry pick a bunch of shitty horizontal grows too, doesn't prove that horizontal is shitty period.



Darth Vapour said:


> PS wanna see what a real pound plant looks like ? So pease Feed us some more first pic is yours lol View attachment 3544867


Not even sure who's plant this is and what you're saying but I recently pulled 8 solid ounces and change of one plant that looks to be less than half that size in a 3'x3' tent with a vertical 400w in a cool tube. Environment was even fairly crap (too hot and stagnant air). Not a speck of larf from top to bottom.


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## ttystikk (Dec 10, 2015)

qp2 said:


> I wouldn't even go as far as saying it saves space, just arranges/uses it differently.


How much testing have you done to confirm your hypothesis?


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## bird mcbride (Dec 10, 2015)

I average about 17.5 oz's every 10 weeks with a 1kw hps horizontal grow.
F&D perpetual.


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## bird mcbride (Dec 11, 2015)

I did a 6kw horizontal grow for 20% and in eight weeks from snip to finish I got a little better than two lb's.


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## qp2 (Dec 11, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> How much testing have you done to confirm your hypothesis?


Not as many as some, but certainly my share from a single 400 to 3kw in one space (I've done 400, 600, 1kw, and 2x600 in vert, some bare, some with tubes, 2x and 3x 1kw in horizontal, along with single 400, 600, 1kw but always in vented hoods horizontally). If you want to go by square footage of floor space alone, sure, it saves space so to speak, but when you consider room volume I think the two are fairly comparable in what they can yield for how much light you have. Some spaces will work better vertical, some will work better horizontal.


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## justanoldtimer (Dec 11, 2015)

I've skimmed over this thread. I have done vertical grows, but it was a long time ago, perhaps ten years ago.
I used four pieces, 4x8 plywood screwed to 2x4 frame, I had 12 plants placed in each wall, giving me 48 plants in total. I used two 600 watt cool tubes dropped down the center, and supplemented with additional co2 from a tank. The lights were (obviously) cooled from an outside source, and exited thru the neighboring bathroom, after going thru a charcoal filter. 

I think it was worth it in the end. 24 plants per each 600 watt light is a definite improvement vs had I simply hung the lights over a few plants placed on the floor. 
This is just one old mans opinion based on my past experience.
Peace


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## ttystikk (Dec 11, 2015)

Limitless ways to skin the vertical cat, not all are created equal.


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## doctor G (Dec 17, 2015)

Trees rock here's mine


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## doctor G (Dec 17, 2015)

P.S. she is in a 2 m x 2 m tent and fills the whole thing


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## ttystikk (Dec 17, 2015)

doctor G said:


> P.S. she is in a 2 m x 2 m tent and fills the whole thing


Nicely done! Now show us how she gets from here to chop, brother!


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## doctor G (Dec 17, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Nicely done! Now show us how she gets from here to chop, brother!


Will do, going to be flowering her any day now just waiting out a heat wave that is due to finish in s couple days.


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## justanoldtimer (Dec 17, 2015)

doctor G said:


> P.S. she is in a 2 m x 2 m tent and fills the whole thing


Nice looking plant doc, I find myself a little confused though, perhaps you can enlighten me?
How is one plant an example of growing vertical?


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## doctor G (Dec 17, 2015)

This is a vertical tree grow. 
Bulbs are hung vertically surrounding her .
This is how to get a large yield you have a top canopy and 4 side canopies and the light is so intense it gets to the middle of the plant .

This is my doctor G sea of LST which is a horizontal grow.


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## doctor G (Dec 17, 2015)

Yields will be compared


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## jigfresh (Dec 18, 2015)

Nice trees Doc! love the term sea of lst. I love what you guys do with 1 plant down there.


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## doctor G (Dec 18, 2015)




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## ttystikk (Dec 18, 2015)

doctor G said:


> Will do, going to be flowering her any day now just waiting out a heat wave that is due to finish in s couple days.


You don't live in Colorado, do you? Lol


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## doctor G (Dec 18, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> You don't live in Colorado, do you? Lol


Ya never know mate haha


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## doctor G (Dec 18, 2015)

Hope I'm not hijacking let me know if I should quit posting her pics but just took this and had to share it with you all


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## doctor G (Dec 18, 2015)

I can't figure out how to put my grow journal in my signature? 
Any way if anyone is interested here's the link to my big girls grow journal. 

doctor G and his extra large tree
https://www.rollitup.org/t/doctor-g-and-his-extra-large-tree.893227/


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## jigfresh (Dec 18, 2015)

Here's the signature page.... just copy and paste the link in and press save changes. 

https://www.rollitup.org/account/signature


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## doctor G (Jan 2, 2016)

Hi people, tty love the supersilo, this is my leftover plants vert flower run.

I did a massive 
White Rhino pheno hunt and I thought bugger it I'll keep the retards of the bunch, interesting to note I had 0 males from apparent reg seeds .
I'm talking 300 + seeds, spun me out, any way the plants on the outsides are the last of them and in the middle is 2 big from the start, just dropped in 4 x600w hps, should get the job done


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## stoned_chess (Jan 3, 2016)

Dr. G, about the reg coming out females, same thing happened to me while growing a mixed crop. All the reg came out female while most of the chronic bagseed I've planted has been hermaphroditic, generally due to the fact that only chronic plants that are hermaphrodites produce seeds, which in turn are genetically likely to also be hermaphrodites. The reason reg bagseed comes out mostly female is because Mexican cartels streamlined the growing of reg in warehouses, hiring skilled gardeners who were trained to find and erradicate any male plants, gradually causing the genetics of such plants to lean predominantly female.

Reading this thread because I'm running a "300w" LED pannel. Looking to upgrade, weighing out options between COB build and going MH/HPS vert.


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## ttystikk (Jan 3, 2016)

stoned_chess said:


> Dr. G, about the reg coming out females, same thing happened to me while growing a mixed crop. All the reg came out female while most of the chronic bagseed I've planted has been hermaphroditic, generally due to the fact that only chronic plants that are hermaphrodites produce seeds, which in turn are genetically likely to also be hermaphrodites. The reason reg bagseed comes out mostly female is because Mexican cartels streamlined the growing of reg in warehouses, hiring skilled gardeners who were trained to find and erradicate any male plants, gradually causing the genetics of such plants to lean predominantly female.
> 
> Reading this thread because I'm running a "300w" LED pannel. Looking to upgrade, weighing out options between COB build and going MH/HPS vert.


Or- do both like me lol


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## doctor G (Jan 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Or- do both like me lol


Yep I'm trying to get some heliospectra leds to add to my garden, they have CPU programable light recipe's you can change for each strain


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## stoned_chess (Jan 3, 2016)

Exactly ttystikk, I'm thinking the more light sources/lumens the better. HID lights have been producing weight for decades, but implementing some cooler, high-efficiency cob watts in addition to the HID seems the optimal setup right now.


doctor G said:


> Yep I'm trying to get some heliospectra leds to add to my garden, they have CPU programable light recipe's you can change for each strain


Was looking at those this afternoon, they look badass! I don't need a shit ton of watts or anything, not growing in a warehouse or anything currently, so it would be cool to find something like a Heliospectra but lower wattage and like a tenth of the price, lol


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## doctor G (Jan 3, 2016)

stoned_chess said:


> Exactly ttystikk, I'm thinking the more light sources/lumens the better. HID lights have been producing weight for decades, but implementing some cooler, high-efficiency cob watts in addition to the HID seems the optimal setup right now.
> Was looking at those this afternoon, they look badass! I don't need a shit ton of watts or anything, not growing in a warehouse or anything currently, so it would be cool to find something like a Heliospectra but lower wattage and like a tenth of the price, lol


The heliospectra are costly at 1999, I'd pay 500 tops and that's it, I got 600w hps with ballast and brand new bulb for $50 last time and the most I usually would pay is 50 without bulb then go buy my own bulbs, I know that sounds like bullshit but it's not so these fucking led companies are really asking way to much to the point of pissing me right off


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## doctor G (Jan 3, 2016)

And where's the led vert lights show me the vert lights!


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## jigfresh (Jan 4, 2016)

I ran my LED's vertical. They worked out alright.


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## doctor G (Jan 4, 2016)

Still though if it's a panel the led lights running vert wouldn't give you 360 light like a bare bulb so say if your dropping bulbs between plants or doing a vert sog surrounding the bulb 360 with plants with leds you would need 4 panels ! Looks like hps is efficient after all if u want to be efficient you can


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## jigfresh (Jan 4, 2016)

I suppose, but I just had 3 panels to look at 3 walls of my closet. 450 w of LED did pretty good. And yes they are expensive as hell, but when calculating electricity saved they pay for themselves pretty quickly.


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## m4s73r (Jan 4, 2016)

I'm a little shocked you can run them with the light on them like that.


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## jigfresh (Jan 4, 2016)

i only bleached about 3 grams. Ñ= 

WTF... my keyboard has gone all wonky... when I try to make a smily face all I get is Ñ= lol

Here´s a couple weeks after that video.


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