# ++Hellraizers++ DO AND DONTs and in and outs of the ebb&grow/ebb&flow systems



## hellraizer30 (Jan 23, 2012)

So Im starting this thread to target easy ways to build, run and manage these systems in hydro!
And to better help the riu community with solid answers to issues as best i can answer. Systems
I would like to target are:
1) CAP ebb&grow
2) titan flow&grow
3) standard flood tables
4) any form of top drip recycle

Discusions about medium whats best and whats not!
Nute lines and ph management. Water! Whats good
And whats not!

heres a bunch of links to RIU grows and grow room setups

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/513173-grow-room-floorplans-here-help.html
there is no better person than phillip to configure a grow room than him dudes got his shit down!


https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/513182-newb-grow-journal.html
nuglets grow!


https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/513440-here-we-grow-again-ebb.html
drgreentm grow!


https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/361430-dwc-root-slime-cure-aka.html
heisinbergs tea thread to curing slime and pythium!


https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/444129-second-round-undercurrent-6-500-a.html
woods UC grow for those looking into undercurrent


https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/508846-bigz-2012-hydro-grow-virgin.html
bigz hydro grow!


https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/517860-sour-diesel-grow.html
niners grow!


https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/500452-blue-dream-coco-12x6-2x1000.html
insanes coco passive hydro grow!


https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/514266-2x4-food-drain-stealth-grow.html
bigstuff777 ebb&flow grow!


https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/269859-all-cap-ebb-grow-users.html
for those looking for a ton of ebb&grow info look to this thread to!


https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/517240-4x4-ebb-n-flow-white.html
phuzy grow!


https://www.rollitup.org/maine-patients/500519-white-russians-mmj-grow.html
cerberus titan setup!


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## Valron (Jan 23, 2012)

Question on ph management... 

I have recently read that you can use pure 33% sulfuric acid from auto zone to lower ph.

Well I tried it . It works it's safe and for the price of 1 u.s. Gallon of ph down is under 5$.

Only negative aide effect? I can't read the tds. My ppm meter goes CRAZY!.

Any suggestions?

Oh yeah i am putting this stuff right into my 18 gallon resivior...


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## fumble (Jan 23, 2012)

thanks for putting the link HR...Glad to see you're still going to be here.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 23, 2012)

fumble said:


> thanks for putting the link HR...Glad to see you're still going to be here.


Yah fumble im not going anywhere! Taking a forced brake due to a loss of everything i had cause of stupid power going
Out! And killing my girls  saved the orange cush clone thank god!


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 23, 2012)

Valron said:


> Question on ph management...
> 
> I have recently read that you can use pure 33% sulfuric acid from auto zone to lower ph.
> 
> ...


You can use sulfuric acid although i wouldnt, looking for a salution to it messing with tds meter 
Well i honestly dont have a clue, il look into it and get back to you


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## Hydro daze (Jan 23, 2012)

cap ebb and grow! Check ur floats! to check pop float off mount and shake it. If it rattles its bad and can cause and flood in the near future! like last night in my case! Call r and m supply and they will replace them!


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 23, 2012)

Hydro daze said:


> cap ebb and grow! Check ur floats! to check pop float off mount and shake it. If it rattles its bad and can cause and flood in the near future! like last night in my case! Call r and m supply and they will replace them!


Good shit hydro daze its never happened to me but good to check on! Better to be pro-active!


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 23, 2012)

I would like to start off focusing on root rot and slime thats common in the ebb/grow systems! 
Root rot! Its seems to take charge in week 3 of bloom with the exsposive amounts of root filling
The buckets, cap has x2 versoins of buckets one is a flat bottom and the other is a raised style
With a slight angle to help draining! Does either one work not really, water still remains in the 
Bucket in between floods and sits with 0 air and under the heat of your lamp. No air = stagnent
Water = in root rot! And water siting under lights in black tubing is like a heater increasing temps
In one case i did a test where my chiller was keeping a good 62 to 63f in the res! And i installed
A water proof temp gauge in the main line that feeds the buckets. My floods are spaced 4 hours 
Apart and half way through to the next flood my inline water temp was 78! I couldnt believe it lol
So high temps = brown slime or pythium! This all took place with a bad ass chiller in place. Everytime
It cycled a flood it would bring back bactiria to the res and thus causing a revolving cycle of shit!
To eliminate a good amount of this high temps i replaced my black lines with 3/4 white pvc and put
Foam on the lines, the kind you snap on to help with frozen water pipes. White pvc and no direct 
Light on the line got it down to 65 to 66f from 78  in doing so it almost elininated slime and made 
My chiller run half as much. Back to root rot! Even though cap raised there buckets raising it a1in to
2inchs more is a win all to geting them to drain 100% and elininating rot. Keep in mind lots of air in
The res is key to replacing fresh clean water full of air to your plants roots! When you raisem up dont
Raise the controll box, i know by doing this you lower the flood level! Its ok your plant will love you
For it!


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 23, 2012)

Il get some pics up of the layout soon


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## Someguy15 (Jan 23, 2012)

I can run up to a 80 degree rez using tables. Seems they are much less prone to rot sitting in pots rather than DWC tubs. But for those in DWC with slime issues check out *Heisenbergs Tea*... Basically Earthworth Castings soaked in aerated water with a bit of Auqa Shield and a Myco product like great white or w/e u have. After 48 hours of brewing add roughly 2 cups to each 5 gal bucket to help combat the slime. I assume this tea would also work great in the Ebb&Grow tho I've never tried it.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 23, 2012)

You hit it on the nail someguy with the tea im a full time tea brewer lol

Heres my resipe

#1 x2 scoops of ancient forest in a sock 
#2 1 tsp of myco madness or great white
#3 20ml aquashield
#4 x3 to 4 tsb hibrix mollasis
#5 5gal bucket
#6 good air stones and pump

Brew for 24hr then add
#7 zho 1tsp

Brew for another 24hr.
For inoculation time use 1gal of tea to 10 gals of water
Every three days add 1cup of tea to 10 gals of water

Store left overs for no longer then 10days in a fridge


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## bowlfullofbliss (Jan 23, 2012)

I've been using the CAP Ebb & Grow, and have been using the House and Garden line of nutes. The very expenseive products have natural enzymes that break down and eliminate root rot. They also require that you do NOT add oxygen to your res, as it negativally affects the root excelator, which is $75 for a very small bottle, yes, its shocking, but its the best. It also has drip clean, which natuarally breaks down and eliminates salt build up. 

At the end of a grow, my roots are white and happy, and my nugs are sick. I'm a big believer in the concept of you get what you pay for.


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## Someguy15 (Jan 23, 2012)

bowlfullofbliss said:


> I've been using the CAP Ebb & Grow, and have been using the House and Garden line of nutes. The very expenseive products have natural enzymes that break down and eliminate root rot. They also require that you do NOT add oxygen to your res, as it negativally affects the root excelator, which is $75 for a very small bottle, yes, its shocking, but its the best. It also has drip clean, which natuarally breaks down and eliminates salt build up.
> 
> At the end of a grow, my roots are white and happy, and my nugs are sick. I'm a big believer in the concept of you get what you pay for.


With that thought process you'd be running AN lol... But it tends to be more environmental then what nutes you use. Enzymes can help, but only if used before the problem starts, otherwise it creates more of a mess.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 23, 2012)

Someguy15 said:


> With that thought process you'd be running AN lol... But it tends to be more environmental then what nutes you use. Enzymes can help, but only if used before the problem starts, otherwise it creates more of a mess.


100% right someguy, although i hear good things about house and gardens! There nute line it to split up, i have used
The root excel and my tea resipe does just as good


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## marmarb (Jan 23, 2012)

Ive never run the AN line but i have seen results of it yields were decent but i did better than my buddy using fox farm trio with the root excell in 1gal hempy buckets im runing the H&G aqua flakes now with root excell for seedilings test will come once i get these ebb and flow table up and runing


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 23, 2012)

marmarb said:


> Ive never run the AN line but i have seen results of it yields were decent but i did better than my buddy using fox farm trio with the root excell in 1gal hempy buckets im runing the H&G aqua flakes now with root excell for seedilings test will come once i get these ebb and flow table up and runing


Sweet marmarb you got a thread going?

Im a firm believer in AN but not there full line just a select few! 

I have run 
aN
Bc line
Gh flora
Gh nova
Gh maxi
Was going to run dg but now its delayed
Nsr


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## Someguy15 (Jan 23, 2012)

I've used Ionic, H&G and currently Canna lineup. H&G raised their prices a bit kinda made me sour lol but so far I like the canna flores A+B ph stability better. A+B also has fulvics and humics which I like over the H&G A+B. I am not a huge fan of the shooting powder as it makes the plants bolt too much and if used as directed will make your final weeks EC ~2.7. I prefer to be boosting Pk in weeks 3-5 when most of the bud development is happening. I believe in supplying nutrients as the plants require, not forcing high EC solutions at the end to attempt to add weight. I did like the roots excel and may switch back to that product instead of the Rhizotonic, but I find it made a real mess of my rez which I wasn't fond of... All and all the lines are pretty comparable in price and performance so it really comes down to preference. I would also like to give cutting edge solutions a try, but for a while I'll be sticking with Canna.


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## budsMI (Jan 24, 2012)

Dyna Grow Bloom and Magpro using lucas formula for me... Very simple with GREAT results! I have a slightly fabricated ebb and flow...


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## marmarb (Jan 25, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Sweet marmarb you got a thread going?
> 
> Im a firm believer in AN but not there full line just a select few!
> 
> ...


not at the moment right now its not too much going on i got 9 10 day old seedlings growing 4 c99xbx1 and 5 sweettooh from mosca seed bank under 400mh im just looking for mothers right now i have some serious seeds white russians coming and will be doing some breeding and mother hunting with them once i put them into ebb flow tables thats when i will start a journal


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 25, 2012)

Sounds good marmarb keep me post when you start it il sub up


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## marmarb (Jan 25, 2012)

sure thing im still debating if im gonna run my 600 in a 3x3 or 4x4 tent i build them 2x2 and panda film im excited about both strains the c99 is a 50-56 day strain and the st can go around 10 weeks so im looking to sog and both think that im gonna need to run 2 seperate 600s but than the russians are coming the next 90 days are gonna be very eventful maybe i will just make 3 tents each strain get there own 3x3 table gonna try to hit an elbow each if it was straight coco hempy i know id hit it without to much fuss but this ebb and flow i may stumble a bit


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 25, 2012)

600 over a 3x3 on a ebb table you should get that each table no prob!


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## fumble (Jan 25, 2012)

Hey HR I've got a question for you. Can spider mites live in a light and hatch when it heats up? Like lay eggs in there and then they hatch later?


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 26, 2012)

If the eggs dont get cold to make them hibernate them there natural life cycle will proceed, so the eggs hatch
And if there stuck in the light wth no way out! They cant feed and without feeding theres no aging and a spider
Might that dont reach aduldhood dont lay eggs, so the cycle ends. So to aswer your Q is yes but for only one life 
Cycle.


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## marmarb (Jan 26, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> 600 over a 3x3 on a ebb table you should get that each table no prob!


but with how many plants per table


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 26, 2012)

You would need to sog with as many as you can put on the table


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## fumble (Jan 26, 2012)

Cool, thanks HR. I am having the worst trouble with the little effers. The guy I got the light from had a serious problem too. But I had the light just sitting in the room for a few months before I used it, so I really didn't think that could be the issue. Oh well. Love your new avatar, btw.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 26, 2012)

Thanks fumble, hey look into mighty wash seems to be killing the shit out em in my area and the little bastards cant
Grow a amunity to it! And you can use it day after day without a bad effect on your plants, also if you start using it
You should get jungle rain to wash your plants clean


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## fumble (Jan 26, 2012)

Thanks, I will keep that in mind for next time. Sadly, it is too late for my girls. I am having a funeral later today.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 26, 2012)

fumble said:


> Thanks, I will keep that in mind for next time. Sadly, it is too late for my girls. I am having a funeral later today.


Dam fumble sorry to hear that! I had a funeral last week when all but a few of my orange kush clones
Died, i lost all my moms full veg tent and tent 2 to power outage  the water in the res froze lol
Tent 1 was at week 8 1/2 so no loss there feww


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## Someguy15 (Jan 26, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Dam fumble sorry to hear that! I had a funeral last week when all but a few of my orange kush clones
> Died, i lost all my moms full veg tent and tent 2 to power outage  the water in the res froze lol
> Tent 1 was at week 8 1/2 so no loss there feww


damn no gennie? I would have to get one if something catastrophic happened... I couldn't watch it all die


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## fumble (Jan 26, 2012)

Damn HR! Sorry to hear that. It really sucks to see all your hard work go out like that.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 26, 2012)

Someguy15 said:


> damn no gennie? I would have to get one if something catastrophic happened... I couldn't watch it all die


By the time i got there it was toast


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 26, 2012)

fumble said:


> Damn HR! Sorry to hear that. It really sucks to see all your hard work go out like that.


I was so pissed when i saw it i decided to just focus on the ggg testers that are coming to replace the ones that also died!
Everybody got to take a break and the big guy was leting me know its time


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## marmarb (Jan 26, 2012)

well since i went and checked on the babies i figured i could snap a pic or two of my veg tent thats a 400 dual lamp currently runing mh bulb plants are exactly 1ft away added two cups of water to help with humidity temp are steady at 86 but when lights go out i put a small heater in to keep it at 75 they are on a 18/6 schedule current feeding is 5ml of root excell aqua flakes A and B meduim is 95% coco with the other 5% being rapid rooters as thats what they were started in up close photo is sweet tooth tent is a 2x2x5


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## Someguy15 (Jan 27, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> You hit it on the nail someguy with the tea im a full time tea brewer lol
> 
> Heres my resipe
> 
> ...


Brewin my first batch right now thanks for the recipe! I also added some BTI to the mix to combat my damn fungus gnat situation. Just wants to say thanks for good directions.


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## marmarb (Jan 27, 2012)

so got my ph and tds/temp meters today tested my water ph 7.0 with a ppm 120 after i add nutes and ph down its at 5.2 with a ppm of 630 seedlings are looking great no sign of nute burn just wondering whats the normal ppm range for seedlings in coco hempy cups


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## Someguy15 (Jan 27, 2012)

marmarb said:


> so got my ph and tds/temp meters today tested my water ph 7.0 with a ppm 120 after i add nutes and ph down its at 5.2 with a ppm of 630 seedlings are looking great no sign of nute burn just wondering whats the normal ppm range for seedlings in coco hempy cups


500 or so. You can get a seedling nute like canna start which seems to work exceptionally well also.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 27, 2012)

Might want to raise that oh to 5.6 bro


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 27, 2012)

Someguy15 said:


> Brewin my first batch right now thanks for the recipe! I also added some BTI to the mix to combat my damn fungus gnat situation. Just wants to say thanks for good directions.


Fantastic someguy keep me posted on the progress


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## Someguy15 (Jan 27, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Fantastic someguy keep me posted on the progress


Will do. Also just scooped a TurboKlone Mini 24 site cloner. Can't wait to use a legit cloner lol I've been using root riot and a dome... was serving me pretty well but this round got damn fungus gnat larva in some of the clones and killed them! Pretty pissed but life goes on. Most of my genetic pool is safe at least.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 27, 2012)

Use the tea in that cloner will help keep them from roting! Clones need 5.5 ph and 70f and above temps in a cloner so
Tea is a must to control bactiria


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## dbkick (Jan 27, 2012)

aero cloning is best done at those temps with something like clonex liquid which is anti-microbial.microbes are nice to introduce once roots are established and into veg. this is opinion only and all kinds of shit works I'm sure.


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## marmarb (Jan 28, 2012)

? do thoes diy co2 setups help out any my temps are around 72-83 when the lights are on i have the supplies on hand already so it wont cost anything to add it to the tent


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 28, 2012)

Im not super up to speed on co2 never needed it!


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## InsaneMJ (Jan 29, 2012)

Hey, HR... Another question lol. Gnats/white flys how do you get rid of them besides the sticky strips. My plant vitality is more of a spider mite killer an isn't as effective right now.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 29, 2012)

Dam insane white flys and gnats ugg i bet i know how you got them! Coco says sterile! Well i got news on that one,
After all my testers died to damping off! I set the 4in pots aside and paid no attention to them well yesterday i looked
At them and guess what i see? WEEDs yah basic weeds going as green as ever, wtf! Sterile my ass. I also noticed gnats
Flying around hmm!

Go gnats and fly tape works for me on the gnats! But white fly i hear is a fucking bitch! Bro


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 29, 2012)

marmarb said:


> well since i went and checked on the babies i figured i could snap a pic or two of my veg tent thats a 400 dual lamp currently runing mh bulb plants are exactly 1ft away added two cups of water to help with humidity temp are steady at 86 but when lights go out i put a small heater in to keep it at 75 they are on a 18/6 schedule current feeding is 5ml of root excell aqua flakes A and B meduim is 95% coco with the other 5% being rapid rooters as thats what they were started in up close photo is sweet tooth tent is a 2x2x5
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Loooks good bro nice and healthy


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## InsaneMJ (Jan 29, 2012)

Lol, nahh my coco is sterile for sure I've never had anything like that happen. When I brought in the chem dawg mother it was in soil then I transplanted into coco. I believe they were in the soil I just didn't notice. I didn't get it until I introduced the chemdawg strain :/ almost thinking about stripping her for clones an kilin er off an starting over. The guy who I got it from had gnats, but I didn't think anything of it since I sprayed down the soil a little.


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## InsaneMJ (Jan 29, 2012)

I'm almost considering making a batch of coco an setting it aside just to make sure I don't have that problem. What brand coco are you using??


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 29, 2012)

The brand is down to earth coco blocks, i took pics of the weeds lol could not believe what i was seeing


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## marmarb (Jan 29, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Loooks good bro nice and healthy


i had a inline fan just sitting around that i normally use with my filter dont need it at the moment in veg once i stuck it on there temp doesnt get over 75 and it hits 65 when lights off been that way for two days and you can deff see the growth just boom than again it could be that the rooths have finally made it to the 2in rez in the cups looking good for 10 days old i personally think that its a cummalation of me using the ph and tds meters and the fan and the plants it self 3 more weeks and hopefully i have pre flowers if not than im gonna just take 2 clones each and flower the seed plants


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## marmarb (Jan 29, 2012)

funny yall say that about the coco ive never had a problem with fly using the coco or gnats


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## Bernie420 (Jan 29, 2012)

Are there any do and donts to this thread


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 29, 2012)

Bernie420 said:


> Are there any do and donts to this thread


My intent is to target cap,titan,sentinal and green trees system weeknesses but as of late i have been swamped
With RL stuff and havnt got a chance to touch on much bernie420 

You have a issue you want to address?


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## InsaneMJ (Jan 29, 2012)

Ok, never used that brand before. I've been buying general hydro's coco. My bad for derailing lol, I just kinda assumed that no one would mind me askin about gnats, since I know it's a common problem for some people.


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## Bernie420 (Jan 29, 2012)

No I dont have an issue but am watching this thread so I can learn a thing or two. I havnt seen a lot of do's or don'ts about the topic so I wanted to ask.

I run the flow n grow systems. Things I learned I can safely say in my limited experience are.

Dont have your lid off your reservoir when the pump kicks on.
Dont have any of your feed lines to your pots criss crossed, they all need to lay flat.
Do make sure your control bucket is a little bit lower or level with the rest of your pots. 
Do make sure all of your pots are level. If not adjust by sticking something under it to raise the lowest ones.

I have i dip in my basement floor.
Fill up and drain your pots to see were the water level is in all of your pots. Measure down from the lip to be accurate. They all should be really close if not then adjust by putting something to raise the ones that need to be raised to make them all level. What happened to me is that three pots were in a low spot and that made the water drain out but was to high in the pots and the meshed inserts was sitting just in the water making my roots not grow very good in those pots, I adjusted the pots up with some magazines and the problem is solved and my roots in those three pots are back on track.


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## InsaneMJ (Jan 29, 2012)

Are you using the 2-3, or 5 gallon buckets? Also are you usig the inner buckets or just the lids with the built in mesh? I noticed that if your not using a Benny tea, the roots start to air prune themselves once their out of the bucket. Unless theirs some water sitting at the base of the buckets. But that can also cause pyrithum, which in turn will cause root rot.


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## marmarb (Jan 29, 2012)

how are you guys runing the coco in the ebb and flow setups do you just water less frequently ? but than i wonder like how is the top of the pots being watered because if im still gonna have to hand water the top than whats the point


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## InsaneMJ (Jan 29, 2012)

Lol, nahh idk if you can flood n drain with the coco. It's super absorbent so a drip system from the top or hand watering is the best way. I like hand watering because you can measure out how much each plant gets per day. Plus I don't have the supplies for a drip system otherwise I would do a drip.


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## marmarb (Jan 29, 2012)

i normally do hempy buckets maybe i will just automate them either that or grab some hydroton i prefer to stick with coco as its what ive been runing the last few yrs


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## marmarb (Jan 30, 2012)

? how high am i flooding 5in pots filled with hydroton gave in and just ordered a 50l bag hope its enough


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 30, 2012)

What are your net pots in?


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## Someguy15 (Jan 31, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> What are your net pots in?


I think he means just using 5" netpots in the tray. If your using pots that small you should be going for a sea of green technique. I do Scrog (about 5-9 plants per 3x3) and use 2 or 3 gal pots. But I'm all about big roots and big plants. I would say half way is a good height with hydroton, but it's pretty forgiving on over watering. It's having the flood too low that could cause problems as hydroton doesn't wick water up very well.


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## marmarb (Jan 31, 2012)

yup thats what i ment i just got back with a 2x4 flood table they were out of 3x3 and got 5in pots said they hold around a liter a pot i can fit around 32 pots thinking of just letting veg till bout a ft than flowering may get crowded so will be sog it


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 31, 2012)

32 5in pots in a 4x2 table and your going to veg them till there a foot tall!? 
Dude you need to flip them as soon as they get in the table! So zero veg and
Even then its going to be stuffy


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## marmarb (Jan 31, 2012)

was gonna go with a trelis hey will a 600 okay to run over this size table i wanted a 3x3 but they were out


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 31, 2012)

600 is fine!

A 3x3 would of been better for those numbers


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## Someguy15 (Jan 31, 2012)

marmarb said:


> was gonna go with a trelis hey will a 600 okay to run over this size table i wanted a 3x3 but they were out


yes a 600 will be fine over that. Square would match the light pattern better but the plants r pretty good at adapting to their space. I would have to agree with HR, if your doing SOG you need to zero veg, or a week at the most. A trellis setup is more Scrog style which uses bigger plants and a screen to spread them. With SOG you just try to get a single cola from each plant, hence why u need like 30 of them. But this pushes them to yield, so 1/2 oz off each plant means a big yield. That would be 16 oz harvest, which under a 600 would be very good. So pick a style and go with it, is it gonna be SOG or Scrog? Can't do both really...


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## marmarb (Jan 31, 2012)

guess its gonna be sog than as i havent gotten around to buying the trelis yet yea id prefer the square shape for lamp but gotta make due any good sog threads to read out there i have a 400 that i can take out the veg tent and replace with cfls to help cover the 2x4 if neccessary also with the 400 its in a 2.5x2.5 ft tent and the temps dont get over 72 with the lights on plants are 6 inches away not showing burn or anything is this too strong for 2 week old seedlings


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## Green Revolution (Feb 3, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I would like to start off focusing on root rot and slime thats common in the ebb/grow systems!
> Root rot! Its seems to take charge in week 3 of bloom with the exsposive amounts of root filling
> The buckets, cap has x2 versoins of buckets one is a flat bottom and the other is a raised style
> With a slight angle to help draining! Does either one work not really, water still remains in the
> ...




Sounds like a lot of the same problems I had with hydro. I tried chillers, H2O2, everything... So much cleaning it made my head spin. I will say though, that tea recipe is spot on Hellraizer. I used a similar one when I ran ebb and grow buckets. Those pieces of shit drove me crazy! Ran a few ebb and flow tables after that and went back to soil. I haven't looked back since. 

Ohh yeah, I totally ditched my aerocloner too. Now I get 6-7 days in plugs, 75%.... 10-12 days 100%. 

Not trying to downplay the hydro or anything. Just adding my two cents. Hydro sure can add to yield but if it's any lesson learned, it's no more _recirculating_ systems for me!


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 4, 2012)

I spent many years in soil and loved it but when I went dro there was many lost nights of sleep, but I have overcome it and
dont think I would go back lol. this is a big reason im so into helping folks master hydro!


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 12, 2012)

So ive done some adjustments to my formula AN resipe

Bloom cycle with ph perfect

Grow.  13ml per gal.
Micro. 13ml per gal. Add micro first
Bloom. 13ml per gal. 

Bud ignitor 4ml Per gal. Week 1-2
Big bud. 4ml. Per gal. Week 2-4
B-52. 4ml. Per gal week 3-6
Overdrive. 4ml. Per gal. Week 6-8
Last couple weeks flush.


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## D.Medicated (Feb 13, 2012)

hey hellraizer i like that bloom recipe, was wondering what you use for veg?
i really want to do a ebb & flow system! ill send you a message some time to get some more info on building one and such!
also the tea, would that replace the AN nutrients or would you use it alongside the nutrients?


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## Someguy15 (Feb 13, 2012)

D.Medicated said:


> hey hellraizer i like that bloom recipe, was wondering what you use for veg?
> i really want to do a ebb & flow system! ill send you a message some time to get some more info on building one and such!
> also the tea, would that replace the AN nutrients or would you use it alongside the nutrients?


If you buy a tray the rest can be easily built. 2x4s for a stand and rubbermaid for a rez (30g or smaller).

As for the tea, it's only for beneficial bacteria so you can use it along side any nutrient regiment.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 13, 2012)

@d.med for veg I just cut the base nute in half! That should put the ppms at 500 to 600 depending on your water.
And the only sup is sensi a at the same ratio, and b52 at the same ratio! The b52 use all the way
Through veg


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## dickkhead (Feb 13, 2012)

im curently running hp aero and was considering trying hydro? i use bleach 6drops/gl of ro water in my 10 gl res and never have issues with slime or root rot! just my .02


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 13, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> im curently running hp aero and was considering trying hydro? i use bleach 6drops/gl of ro water in my 10 gl res and never have issues with slime or root rot! just my .02


I to have used bleach to control bactiria! But that dont help or contribute to root growth and plant growth! And
Thats something the tea will do on top of kill bad bactiria!


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## dickkhead (Feb 14, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I to have used bleach to control bactiria! But that dont help or contribute to root growth and plant growth! And
> Thats something the tea will do on top of kill bad bactiria!


nice but with hp aero i think id would prob clog my sprayers. but im subd here to learn about ebb n gro I have 2 4x8 tents one hp aero the other soil and was thinking about trying an ebb n grow? off of a 4x8 tent hwo much could i yeild and how often with an ebb n grow? thanks man


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 14, 2012)

In a 4x8 i would do 12 buckets! i think 2 large With x2 lights is a easy goal!


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## dickkhead (Feb 16, 2012)

no doubt how long to veg do you recc a scrog? and how fast would the turn around be?


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 16, 2012)

veg for like 5 to 7 days for a sog, and turn around is strain dependent. but if a clone takes 2 weeks to root good and you veg for 7days and your strain is a 8 week one
your looking at 11 week turnaround time on cycles


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## dickkhead (Feb 17, 2012)

7 days 12 buckets and you think ill get 2lbs? I wouldnt need longer?


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## Someguy15 (Feb 18, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> 7 days 12 buckets and you think ill get 2lbs? I wouldnt need longer?


Longer for 12 buckets. You want to do SCROG...not SOG. Scrog you bush out the plants using topping and LST, then a screen and then tuck them during the beginning of stretch to get an even canopy. SOG you take 100 clones, root them, and flower them right away. Preferably with a strain that likes to grow 'single cola' versus naturally bushing. 2 completely different strategies.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 18, 2012)

12 buckets yah like 3weeks i was thinking sog lol

Thanks someguy


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## dickkhead (Feb 19, 2012)

Someguy15 said:


> Longer for 12 buckets. You want to do SCROG...not SOG. Scrog you bush out the plants using topping and LST, then a screen and then tuck them during the beginning of stretch to get an even canopy. SOG you take 100 clones, root them, and flower them right away. Preferably with a strain that likes to grow 'single cola' versus naturally bushing. 2 completely different strategies.


nice this might be the way to go id like to see more ebb n grow journals and results and pros n cons before buying one. you guys have some links? thankyou


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## youngtrader9689 (Feb 19, 2012)

ia agree with thata


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 20, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> nice this might be the way to go id like to see more ebb n grow journals and results and pros n cons before buying one. you guys have some links? thankyou


Heres one
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/508776-2x4-flood-drain-stealth-grow.html


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## nuglets (Mar 16, 2012)

just wanted to let you guys know I got my grow journal back up again. come check it out. ebb & grow baby!!!


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 16, 2012)

Good new nuglet il swing by! Oyah thanks for not flipping out like half of riu about there journals


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## drgreentm (Mar 16, 2012)

nuglets said:


> just wanted to let you guys know I got my grow journal back up again. come check it out. ebb & grow baby!!!


post me a link i lost you lol.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 16, 2012)

drgreentm said:


> post me a link i lost you lol.


https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/513182-newb-grow-journal.html


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## drgreentm (Mar 16, 2012)

sweet thanks buddy


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 17, 2012)

No problem drg


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## painkillerman (Mar 17, 2012)

h202 5ml/ltre min max 30ml for disinfection of medium 10-15ml/ltre is what i use in my ebb/flow 4/8 tables water temp my min 65-77 ive never had root rot due to 20-40% o2 in res use 20%if 100ml day 1 add 20ml a day to replenish o2 daily


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## akpaco (Mar 20, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> You hit it on the nail someguy with the tea im a full time tea brewer lol
> 
> Heres my resipe
> 
> ...


Just started a grow with C.A.P ebb and gro and I'm worried about root rot. I used AN tea in my soil grows but was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for this system?


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 20, 2012)

Dont use an bennys in a ebb! Now with that said, root rot is a issue! More so than pythium/slime.
First off raise those buckets 1to2 in. To allow full drain out! Next thing either start using h202 or
Use teas that you brew outside your res. What on you pick is up to you. I can say this if you can
Keep water temps in the 64f to 66f using h202 will be fine, but if you go over that then brewing 
Teas is a must


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## tjblue (Mar 27, 2012)

So, I'm at the end of week 8 in flower and getting ready to chop. My question is should I flush? This is my first run in a titan ebb and grow. If you use a clearex flush, how long and what flood cycles are you using? Thanks


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 27, 2012)

Dont use clearex its a waist of money! Its made of frutose and sugar  if your planing on a good flush use plain water,
Theres no need to ph this water. Do it for 7 days to 2 weeks! But 7 is ok. Run it like this- dum your res and refill with 
Water, then let it run in your system fo a day or two. You will see that the ppm of your water will continue to rise, at
This point dump that water and refill with new and run it again. Repeat this process till you have water returning to the
Res thats the same ppm of your tap water you started with, at this point your ready to cut.


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## Warlock1369 (Mar 27, 2012)

It's a shame we lost about 10 pages. There was so much info in them. Oh well.
There is no need to use a flushing agent. Flushing is to remove salts and other unused nutes from your grow. But on a final flush you want to remove everything. So why add something? I use ro water in my grow but when it comes to flushing I don't think it's needed. Used ph tap water. After 2 days you will see the ppm go up 200-300 if not more dump that and fill with more ph tap water. And let it go till harvest. The ppm can still go up 100-300 ppm by then but that is what you want. And you just removed about 600 ppm from your grow media.


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## Warlock1369 (Mar 27, 2012)

Like hellraizer said there is no real need to ph the water. But I like to have mine around 6.2-6.6 in flush. Feel the alcalid water helps pull the acid out. We have been in 5.2-5.8 for the whole grow. But that's me. And I found 7+ days is not needed if you change your water every 2 days. So after 4 days flush it's the same as 7. But any less I taste the harshness of the nutes in the smoke.


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## tjblue (Mar 27, 2012)

Thanks for the quick responses.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 27, 2012)

tjblue said:


> Thanks for the quick responses.


Np tj swing by anytime


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## phillipchristian (Mar 27, 2012)

Just wanted to say this is one of the best threads on the forum. No hating, no arguing; just everyone sharing info, tips, and tricks. Very cool Hellraizer. Thanks man.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 27, 2012)

Thank you phillip  no drama = good times


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## uzabow (Mar 27, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I would like to start off focusing on root rot and slime thats common in the ebb/grow systems!
> Root rot! Its seems to take charge in week 3 of bloom with the exsposive amounts of root filling
> The buckets, cap has x2 versoins of buckets one is a flat bottom and the other is a raised style
> With a slight angle to help draining! Does either one work not really, water still remains in the
> ...


Have you tried hydrogen peroxide 35% for the rott?


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 27, 2012)

@uza yah and its ok but not even close to as good as bennys


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## Warlock1369 (Mar 28, 2012)

I like to use bennys but half way thru flower I will run h2o2. 10%. for 1week. That's when my roots start getting packed the the buckets. And want them as clean as I can for the final push. But a nice fresh tea works great. When I have the time. Been really swamped lately.


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## Bigz2277 (Mar 28, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> I like to use bennys but half way thru flower I will run h2o2. 10%. for 1week. That's when my roots start getting packed the the buckets. And want them as clean as I can for the final push. But a nice fresh tea works great. When I have the time. Been really swamped lately.


general thing i have learned. if you have the knowledge and time to brew teas, then do it. otherwise h202 will work fine. 10%? is that food grade? never seen a food grade below 30. I was told by HR not to use the stuff in the brown bottle due to the stuff they cut it with to get it to stay fresh for so long. thoughts warlock?


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## Sencha (Mar 28, 2012)

When using H2O2 above 20%, I DO use rubber gloves and safety glasses. It burned and bleached my skin white. Luckily it was just a splash on the hand at the time.

The stuff I use is 29%. 3ml per gallon. 

It's currosion rating is 5.


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## Bigz2277 (Mar 28, 2012)

Sencha said:


> When using H2O2 above 20%, I DO use rubber gloves and safety glasses. It burned and bleached my skin white. Luckily it was just a splash on the hand at the time.
> 
> The stuff I use is 29%. 3ml per gallon.
> 
> It's currosion rating is 5.


2nd this. 30% here and didnt use gloves the first time. 
shit stings and whitens you skin


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 28, 2012)

Yep food grade is no buano! And yes gloves are a good idea


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## firsttimeARE (Mar 28, 2012)

Yeah im glad my days of white thumbs are over. Well hopefully this tea sets me straight.


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## dbkick (Mar 28, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Yep food grade is no buano! And yes gloves are a good idea


don't forget the safety goggles too, you can survive a direct hit on the skin with 30 percent but get it in the eye and it may blind you, wtf is you doing talking about h2o2 anyway HR, I thought you implemented bennies.


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## dbkick (Mar 28, 2012)

ah, I see you're talking about both!


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## dbkick (Mar 28, 2012)

and for you tea fans, if you don't like dealing/mixing the raw material and bagging then brewing, xtreme gardening tea brews are some awesome shit. I doubt any of you brew a tea this nice.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 28, 2012)

@db i have been looking to try some of those teas by xtreme! Are you using it db?


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## dbkick (Mar 28, 2012)

yassir I am but I'm in soil atm. I can't bring myself to put that stuff in hydro for some reason :/


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## dbkick (Mar 28, 2012)

it brews up nice and frothy and really dark brown.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 28, 2012)

Dam lol was hoping for feedback


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## dbkick (Mar 28, 2012)

cost about a buck a gallon in the end I think, well worth it, toss the bag in, empty the activator in, brew 24 hours. But make sure to fill the bucket only half full because you'll end up with a lot of the frothy stuff on the floor in the morning. top it off close to the end of brewing.


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## dbkick (Mar 28, 2012)

I'm pretty sure its almost identical to heisy's version, I thikn they add humic though, maybe some other stuff too I dunno


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 28, 2012)

Seems simple


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## dbkick (Mar 28, 2012)

very, no more handling poop!


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## dbkick (Mar 28, 2012)

on another note, you have an hydrofarm 1/2 chiller right? has that thing ever for any reason stopped the flow of water thru it?


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## Warlock1369 (Mar 28, 2012)

The xtream tea works great in the res. I haven't used it myself yet. Dumbass me gave away the big box of samples they gave me at the long beach expo. But the person I gave it to had nothing but good to say. Well except the foaming. He used 1 bag and used it for 2 changes.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 28, 2012)

dbkick said:


> on another note, you have an hydrofarm 1/2 chiller right? has that thing ever for any reason stopped the flow of water thru it?


Um no did you check your pump?


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## dbkick (Mar 28, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Um no did you check your pump?


man I tried 3 pumps before I decided to try to blow through the chiller. could not do, a few minutes ago I went back out and tried it again, clear as can be. must be some type of valve or something that shuts off is all I can think.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 28, 2012)

Hmm mine has never done that


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## dbkick (Mar 28, 2012)

hmm, ah well maybe mine never will again, now back to our regular scheduled programming, do and don't!


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## hornedfrog2000 (Mar 29, 2012)

Here you go man. ---> http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2011/02/breeding-microbes-with-compost-tea/

That site has a ton of good info on it.


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## Wolfhound (Mar 29, 2012)

I had some gunk on my chiller coils inside the cooler tank after sitting between grows. I used warm water & a small bottle brush to manuever inside & clean.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 29, 2012)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Here you go man. ---> http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2011/02/breeding-microbes-with-compost-tea/
> 
> That site has a ton of good info on it.



Thanks bro


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 29, 2012)

To Everybody that dont fully understant the symbolic relationship between bactiria and your plants look to the link a few posts
Up from hornedfrog good stuff!


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## fiverivers (Mar 30, 2012)

Mr.hellraizer,

I need your help sir, I am in week 3, flooding every 3hrs/5mins lights on only. GH Flora, H202, and Pro-tekt. temps 78F. ph 5.8- 6.3. ppm 1100-1400. Rockwool set ontop pots of hydroton.

5% of my plants drooped and died. Am i over feeding, under feeding? Too much nutes? Apologies that I do not know how to put pics on here yet. 

Thanks much!
FR
* 



*


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## drgreentm (Mar 30, 2012)

fiverivers said:


> Mr.hellraizer,
> 
> I need your help sir, I am in week 3, flooding every 3hrs/5mins lights on only. GH Flora, H202, and Pro-tekt. temps 78F. ph 5.8- 6.3. ppm 1100-1400. Rockwool set ontop pots of hydroton.
> 
> ...


flooding every 3 hours in rw blocks is a bit much (depending on size) i would back the waterings down to maybe twice a day or better yet dont water again until your blocks are dry again (much lighter to pick up) (time the period from now till then) then time your waterings around that. this is assuming thats your problem, without pics i cant say for sure. 

to upload pics i usually hit the "go advanced" button next to "post quick reply" then it will re-direct you to another screen, now up at the top you will see a paperclip, hit that, now another screen will pop up and up at the top of that it will say "add files" when you are done picking the pics you want to upload just hit the "upload files" button and wait.

hope this helps and welcome to the site


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## phillipchristian (Mar 30, 2012)

fiverivers said:


> Mr.hellraizer,
> 
> I need your help sir, I am in week 3, flooding every 3hrs/5mins lights on only. GH Flora, H202, and Pro-tekt. temps 78F. ph 5.8- 6.3. ppm 1100-1400. Rockwool set ontop pots of hydroton.
> 
> ...


What DrGreen said. Also, are you only flooding for 5 minutes or every 3 hours and 5 minutes? Little confused by that one. You should really only flood during the light cycle 3 - 4 times depending on what the plants need. Don't think the nutes would cause your plants to droop. You would see burn first.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 30, 2012)

You say you have your r/w cube sitting on top of hydrotron? If your r/w isnt touching the flood line then there not
Geting water. Tron will not wick! Bro i need pics to help more


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## InsaneMJ (Apr 3, 2012)

Yoooo what's up with the Gage green test? You closed the thread? Ive only really been updating my thread(like a prick) and not looking at what everyone else is up to. What you got going now? I'm interested in seeing some new buds already! Lol


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 3, 2012)

Hey insane il pm you.


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## jojodancer10 (Apr 3, 2012)

Hello family I was thinking about making a lid for my4x4 table. Want to know what u think.can't seem to find one. They make one for the 3x3 .also, what do you think about Cali connection. Seeds a bit pricey. But I heard they having problems. I don't want to spend the cash if I will have problems. WWW.world of seeds.com the reason for the lid, I was liking at. My moms and they are beautiful. Roots always in food that's why the mom's. Look good in buckets hydro. Farm buckets


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 3, 2012)

@jojo I personally would not give them my money! Most there gear is over priced and from what all my trusted
Friends say its prone to hermie! 

As for lids hydro farms has lids for all sizes of tables. My thoughts are its a good idea to use a lid


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## Warlock1369 (Apr 3, 2012)

Use panda plastic. Just cut X's where you want your plants. This will let you cut and move later if you need to. And if you want better cover you can cut extra covers to go over the X's.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 3, 2012)

Warlock right a diy poly or panda would be way cheaper


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## jojodancer10 (Apr 3, 2012)

I was thinking about going to the boat yard and get fiberglass. Cloth. @ Dr hell raiser... I wanted to get the chemical dawg #4 Julius cesear. Do you know of any other seed banks that have some very good kush seeds.? R.p og#18, ....


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## jojodancer10 (Apr 3, 2012)

One more question. I did a grow with my DJ short blue moonshine. And she was beautifulwk i let her flower for 10 weeksncluding flush. As I trimmed my buds she was smelling good. Dried her. For 6 days. And cure for 3 weeks.now when I open the jar not much of a smell.crack a bud and not much of a smell but her smoke very nice and smooth ..what did I do wrong?should I let her grow longer.thc was milky and amber


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 3, 2012)

You might want to ask in the seed colectors thread theres info there on everything! I dont collect or own anything
CC or RD just to much neg from them


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## drgreentm (Apr 3, 2012)

whats up jojo, i bought the hydro farm tray covers and loved them. they are pricey and that is the only downside to them. they are sturdy and light as hell. i have not build a tray cover before but would try it out if i was running trays still, im sure a diy tray cover would be heavier but if you have a good, sturdy stand for the tray you should have no problems. here is a pic of the tray cover i bought, they come blank so you have to cut your own holes in it.


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## Warlock1369 (Apr 3, 2012)

Have you ever worked with fiberglass? It is a mess and a pain. But if you have worked with it you already know this.


----------



## NightbirdX (Apr 4, 2012)

any thoughts on the Canna Aqua, Dynagro, or B.C. nute lines? I'm gonna be setting up a ebb n flow system soon and have narrowed down to these 3. just trying to guage ease of use, quality, yield, etc. pro's/con's?

If you could buy any one ebb system, which would you get and why? im gonna be vegging in a dwc system in small net pots, and then transplanting into an ebb system to flower. ive heard some buddies having problems with cap and titan controllers. Though i do like the titan for the sturdiness and bigger lines.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 4, 2012)

Hey nightbirdx as to what system to get, hands down get the titan! And 
I have run bc line with great result! Little bit of mag issue but easy to fix,
Yield was great and in a res its 6 out 10 for being clean.

House and gardens is the cleanest but not the push in yield the bc line has.

Never tryed canna or dyna yet.


----------



## cerberus (Apr 4, 2012)

i have run canna and house and garden in the titan.

house and garden is cleaner, no salt build up whatsever. good feed, clean smoke (w/ flushing) and half the price of canna :/ (canna boost is 500 for 5 ltrs)

Canna is super PH stable, throw in the right mix and BAMN ph is 5.9-6.1 everyday, top off with straight water ph doesn't change. it does have salt in it. the boost is killer, drives resin production through the roof.. oh and canna is makes a much cleaner rez too

pick your poison and learn it, thats my best suggestion.


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## jojodancer10 (Apr 4, 2012)

Thanks [email protected] Dr.green where did u get that lid from and do it come 4x4? @hell. Thanks


----------



## Razda (Apr 4, 2012)

i am about to make a home hydro system and i would use any helpfull info.


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## Razda (Apr 4, 2012)

some pictures of a good hydro system would be great


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## drgreentm (Apr 4, 2012)

jojodancer10 said:


> Thanks [email protected] Dr.green where did u get that lid from and do it come 4x4? @hell. Thanks


the hydro store where i shop ordered them for me, here is one on hydrofarm's site. they are about as expensive as the tray itself lol.
http://www.hydrofarm.com/pb_detail.php?itemid=11068


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 4, 2012)

Razda said:


> some pictures of a good hydro system would be great


Hey razda before i post dozens of pics can you narrow it down a bit to kinda what your looking for?


----------



## jojodancer10 (Apr 4, 2012)

my DJ short blue moonshine


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## Warlock1369 (Apr 4, 2012)

Razda said:


> i am about to make a home hydro system and i would use any helpfull info.


There are way to many options to just start posting pics. Need some info. How many plants and size of room. Lighting and how big you want your plants to finish at. That would be a great start.


----------



## whitey51 (Apr 4, 2012)

Ok hellraizer, got your message from the dead thread, to come here and ask questions of ya.....firstly - have you or anyone used growth technology products? Green fuse growth stimulator root/grow/bloom? Or Superdrive?

Secondly, on ventilating my tent. Someone once told me I need to create a partial vacuum so the out take fan is always sucking the nutes through the plant? Any knowledge of this?

I am growing White rhino in 5 gallon bubblers. 4 weeks on and lookin really nice. Any experience of White rhino anyone?


----------



## Warlock1369 (Apr 4, 2012)

No idea on the nutes. And who ever told you that is a moreon. You cant suck nutes thru the plant. But you do need to have the fan going. It replenishes the air. Plants need co2 in the light. So in a tent they will use up the 200-300 ppm of normal air very fast. So that the real reason alway moving the air. Also helps with the temps and humidity.



whitey51 said:


> Ok hellraizer, got your message from the dead thread, to come here and ask questions of ya.....firstly - have you or anyone used growth technology products? Green fuse growth stimulator root/grow/bloom? Or Superdrive?
> 
> Secondly, on ventilating my tent. Someone once told me I need to create a partial vacuum so the out take fan is always sucking the nutes through the plant? Any knowledge of this?
> 
> I am growing White rhino in 5 gallon bubblers. 4 weeks on and lookin really nice. Any experience of White rhino anyone?


----------



## whitey51 (Apr 4, 2012)

Awsome set up Warlock. One of the things that I like about Hydroponics is that it makes me feel like some mad scientist! You certainly look like you are applying science in your set up! The guy who told me about the ventilation actually does well at growing, but when he told me how much money he was spending on newts and soil, I did wonder about his suction theory. My ventilation is set off by a thermostat. So the fans run for ten minutes then cut off for ten minutes, it seems. Unless its hot outside then the fans are constantly on. Adding humidity this week so looking forward to the difference that makes.


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## jojodancer10 (Apr 4, 2012)

The bigger the plant the bigger the buds Wright? So table v.s buckets? All under a 1000watt light 9 buckets. Or 4x4 table with 15 plants


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## phillipchristian (Apr 4, 2012)

Not so true about the bigger the plants the better the bud. Size really has nothing to do with quality.


----------



## jojodancer10 (Apr 4, 2012)

Thats why I love talking to other growers
No BS. I was looking at my mom's and thought about putting her in flowering.


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## drgreentm (Apr 4, 2012)

jojodancer10 said:


> The bigger the plant the bigger the buds Wright? So table v.s buckets? All under a 1000watt light 9 buckets. Or 4x4 table with 15 plants


im running the cap E&G 2 gal system (12 total) in a 4x8 tent under 2 1k's so i do like 6 under a 1k with about a 3-4 week veg. i havent really had a solid run with my 1k's but was averaging around 3 a plant. hoping for 4 at least a plant this run but we will see. imo buckets all the way bro, they are much more handy, i can move the plants wherever i want all by myself and quite quickly. just moving a 4x4 tray around sucks and if you tried to move it for any reason during a grow with 15 plants in it it would be insane.


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## Warlock1369 (Apr 4, 2012)

Bigger plants don't mean bigger yeild. It's all in the grow. If you are wasting any part( nutes light space and technek) you don't maxamize yeild. I know people with 24" plants that yeild better then others with 5' plants. Why? A 5' plant needs alot of light to brake the canopy. While a 24" will use it all. Also have a guy that only dose 2 plants in a 8x14 room. He's getting almost 3-4 lb a plant. But can only do 2.3 grows a year. But he's happy with that.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 4, 2012)

@white hey bro i think your buddy was trying to say you need a vacume in your tent so fresh air brings in co2 that the
Plant can feed on! 

As for green fuse i have used it and found house and gardens root execarator to be better!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 4, 2012)

Went ahead and upgraded my cap control box to a plug and play replacment! 

http://www.aquahub.com/store/product68.html

Aqua hub makes killer upgrades to the ebb system  you guys should checkem out


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 4, 2012)

Cool stuff on that website Hell. Thanks for sharing.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 5, 2012)

No problem phillip hey check out those staneless looking float switchs


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## drgreentm (Apr 5, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Went ahead and upgraded my cap control box to a plug and play replacment!
> 
> http://www.aquahub.com/store/product68.html
> 
> Aqua hub makes killer upgrades to the ebb system  you guys should checkem out


i built one from there site, killer products and worked flawlessly.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 5, 2012)

Sweet drg what i want to here! Everything i have read and seen there top of there game c boxes


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 5, 2012)

Another item i ordered is a set of wort chiller coils make for a simple way to chill that res 

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/stainless-steel-immersion-wort-chiller-w-garden-hose-fittings-50-ft.html


----------



## cerberus (Apr 5, 2012)

somebody's going DIY.. nice.

i was worried about your wort chiller till i clicked on her, i see a lot of people dumping copper pipes in their rez's.. lol

nice tech site's yo


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## jojodancer10 (Apr 5, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> Bigger plants don't mean bigger yeild. It's all in the grow. If you are wasting any part( nutes light space and technek) you don't maxamize yeild. I know people with 24" plants that yeild better then others with 5' plants. Why? A 5' plant needs alot of light to brake the canopy. While a 24" will use it all. Also have a guy that only dose 2 plants in a 8x14 room. He's getting almost 3-4 lb a plant. But can only do 2.3 grows a year. But he's happy with that.


That's what I'm trying to figure out.a friend showed me some musk he bought and the nuggets were big I'm trying to figure how he did it.that tree had to be big.so I'm thinking about putting my mom in flowering a total of 9 mom's in buckets v.s. 15-20 plants on a table in pots.also the other idea is to put a lid on the table with net pots so the roots can be in food just like the buckets.before I do anything I wanted to run it by you Guy's


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## Warlock1369 (Apr 5, 2012)

It's all about veg and training. You can make monsters. But then agin if you don't have the light in flower buds don't get that big. Also have a few people that get major nugs but they dubble bud there shit. Take it to week 4 of flower then reveg. Then start all over. Humidity must be no higher then 40% doing this mold will happen otherwise.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 5, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Another item i ordered is a set of wort chiller coils make for a simple way to chill that res
> 
> http://www.midwestsupplies.com/stainless-steel-immersion-wort-chiller-w-garden-hose-fittings-50-ft.html


Great find with that website Hell. Already ordering a few things. Thanks. 

Check these guys out for Worth Coils. They seem to be a little cheaper although they only carry 3/8" coils. Can't imagine you'd need much more then that on a 25' coil. http://www.nybrewsupply.com/wort-chillers.html Website also has some other DIY supplies you might need like rolls of stainless coil and tubing. 

I picked up 2 of these a few weeks ago for around $135 total including shipping.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 5, 2012)

dam you got 2 for that! jeez thats a better deal.


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## phillipchristian (Apr 5, 2012)

They are great coils. Almost too efficient for nutrient reservoirs. Before I had the t-ball valve about 25% open to control the temps. On these things it's only about 10% open. You have no idea how pissed I was that I bought those Hydro Innovations Cool Coils for like $120 a piece. Those things are like 10' of coil max. Plus I like the worth coils cause you don't have to have any tubing or fittings/connections sitting in the res; only the coil.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 5, 2012)

Sounds like im going to love having these things


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## jojodancer10 (Apr 5, 2012)

Thank-you everyone for your help ill keep you posted


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## phillipchristian (Apr 5, 2012)

For sure man. You can even use the lip on your coils to hang it from the reservoir if you ever have your res more then half full. The only problems you have with them is when the hose or fittings are sitting in your solution. If you can avoid that then you are good. Plus, since they are so efficient; if you were using them to just cool your solutions I bet you could get by without a chiller. I mean the water you have to pump through them doesn't have to be that cold. Maybe just a few degrees cooler then you want your solution. Some guys are just using the frozen bottles of water, a 30 gallon reservoir, and a basic mag drive or reservoir pump.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 5, 2012)

Thats crazy phillip cant wait to get them installed, im going to run the out of the same 55 gal res that going to be feeding my
Heat exchangers


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 5, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Thats crazy phillip cant wait to get them installed, im going to run the out of the same 55 gal res that going to be feeding my
> Heat exchangers


Nice man, you are gonna love your new setup when you get it dialed in. Keep me posted.


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 5, 2012)

Do you need a chiller for those coils or what ?


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 5, 2012)

You need to run chilled water through them. If you have the cash then it helps. If not you can just put frozen bottles of water into the reservoir you use for the water lines to those coils or some guys even run them drain to waste.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 5, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> You need to run chilled water through them. If you have the cash then it helps. If not you can just put frozen bottles of water into the reservoir you use for the water lines to those coils or some guys even run them drain to waste.


I was planning on getting a chiller in the next few grows at least. I've been lucky that my water doesn't get crazy hot, but I still need to get one. I'm sure it will up my yield enough to offset the cost.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 5, 2012)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Do you need a chiller for those coils or what ?


Im going to use a chiller to chill 55gal. Then that res will feed both wort chiller in each res and a heatexchanger,
So my room get chilled and so do my res tanks


----------



## NightbirdX (Apr 8, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey nightbirdx as to what system to get, hands down get the titan! And
> I have run bc line with great result! Little bit of mag issue but easy to fix,
> Yield was great and in a res its 6 out 10 for being clean.
> 
> ...


I was looking at the Titan. Seems really clean and sturdy. I definitely like the bigger lines also. My buddies have used the BC and I know it has done well for them in the past. I just also know that the have dealt with the root rot in the past also. They definitely don't have issues with yield and quality is decent. I personally like my Organic runs better. Overall the resin production and smell are better in soil, but I also know a lot more about the why's and how's of whats going on so I definitely think I could do better than they do. 



cerberus said:


> i have run canna and house and garden in the titan.
> 
> house and garden is cleaner, no salt build up whatsever. good feed, clean smoke (w/ flushing) and half the price of canna :/ (canna boost is 500 for 5 ltrs)
> 
> ...


I definitely am thinking about doing a Canna run. I have used it in the past. I used it in soil, but had some issues with it. some of them could have been due to heat issues, but when I broke up the rootballs their was a lot of build up left behind. I ran it at a medium dosage with a watering in between. I guess I wouldn't have the same kind of issues as I did in soil. I am not too keen on the price though. I use BioCanna right now for my soil runs and that shit gets expensive by the gallon, lol. 

I have a little time to make my decision. I'll probably start with BC and see how I do with it. I don't know if I feel like dropping $1k on a batch of nutes, lol. 

Thanks for chiming in guys, much appreciated.


----------



## Someguy15 (Apr 8, 2012)

NightbirdX said:


> I was looking at the Titan. Seems really clean and sturdy. I definitely like the bigger lines also. My buddies have used the BC and I know it has done well for them in the past. I just also know that the have dealt with the root rot in the past also. They definitely don't have issues with yield and quality is decent. I personally like my Organic runs better. Overall the resin production and smell are better in soil, but I also know a lot more about the why's and how's of whats going on so I definitely think I could do better than they do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I made a excel file comparing H&G and Canna prices. Granted I'm using boost at the lower dosage and cut to 4 weeks, but canna comes out a little cheaper then the full H&G line. Shooting powder and the roots excel make up the price for H&G... Here's my case, calculate your own schedule and then you'll really know what these guys are charging per run. Bottle sizes and such can be deceiving. Even with the canna line + silica blast + cal mag + sweet I'm still coming out at the same price as a H&G run w/ protekt.

For 65 gal of solution...

ProductCostAmount used per bloom (ml)amount per bottle (ml)BloomsCost Per BloomH&G Aqua Flakes$88.004157.550001.20$73.17H&G Roots Excel$136.002805001.79$76.16H&G Multi Zen$46.0074110001.35$34.09H&G Bud XL$60.00114010000.88$68.40H&G Top Boost$22.00370.55001.35$16.30H&G Drip Clean$37.001785002.81$13.17H&G Shooting Powder$14.008n/a1.00$112.00Dyna-Gro Protekt$40.002019.537851.87$21.34Total$443.00$414.63ProductCostAmount used per bloom (ml)amount per bottle (ml)BloomsCost Per Bloom Canna Aqua Flores$102.00378850001.32$77.28Canna Rhizotonic$65.0074110001.35$48.17Canna CannaZym$143.00321750001.55$92.01Canna PK13/14$21.00555.510001.80$11.67Canna CANNABoost$112.0098010001.02$109.76Botanicare Cal-Mag$45.001137.537503.30$13.65Botanicare Silica Blast$39.001137.537503.30$11.83Botanicare Sweet Raw$65.00292537501.28$50.70Total$592.00$415.05


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## cerberus (Apr 8, 2012)

NightbirdX said:


> I definitely am thinking about doing a Canna run. I have used it in the past. I used it in soil, but had some issues with it. some of them could have been due to heat issues, but when I broke up the rootballs their was a lot of build up left behind. I ran it at a medium dosage with a watering in between. I guess I wouldn't have the same kind of issues as I did in soil. I am not too keen on the price though. I use BioCanna right now for my soil runs and that shit gets expensive by the gallon, lol.
> 
> I have a little time to make my decision. I'll probably start with BC and see how I do with it. I don't know if I feel like dropping $1k on a batch of nutes, lol.
> 
> Thanks for chiming in guys, much appreciated.


if its a tight call and money is tight i know H&G works great. and i use boost at the feed rate and canna is almost twice the pric of H&G.. the only thing i would say is 1) my roots are whiter in the canna 2) i seem to get more resin production when i use boost (but this comes from my soil rooms and i doon't have the hard data to say that for water at 100%, thats why i am runnng canna now).

i never tried BC, can't say anything. but h&G cost around 500$ for a full grow with veg in 55gal and canna is around 900$..


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 8, 2012)

dynagro is cheap and easy to understand.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 8, 2012)

cerberus said:


> if its a tight call and money is tight i know H&G works great. and i use boost at the feed rate and canna is almost twice the pric of H&G.. the only thing i would say is 1) my roots are whiter in the canna 2) i seem to get more resin production when i use boost (but this comes from my soil rooms and i doon't have the hard data to say that for water at 100%, thats why i am runnng canna now).
> 
> i never tried BC, can't say anything. but h&G cost around *500$* for a full grow with veg in 55gal and canna is around *900$*..


For 1 grow?!!?


----------



## cerberus (Apr 8, 2012)

canna boost -> http://www.amazon.com/Canna-CBST410-Boost-5-liter/dp/B003D24APS 500 dollars for 5 liters and i need a little over 6 for my system.. sooo 500+100 (1 liter price) = 600$!!

and then another 300 (about)
for
aqua vega A and B (2 liters) = 40$
aqua flora A and B (5 liters) = 50$
Rhizo (2 liters) = 120$
canazyhm (5 liters) = 100$
PK boost (1 liter) = 15$
&
100 lbs hydroton 
seceret ingirdents = 45$

55 gallon rez.
feed rate at 1000 ppm max

yeah meng canna is super pricey.. i am doing this run as a comparison (I almost didn't do it).. the cost is ALL in the boost.. :/


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 8, 2012)

You're high man. Buy some Dynagro and be done with it. That is crazy high prices.


----------



## NightbirdX (Apr 8, 2012)

I had a buddy use dynagro. he followed the instructions, but still had a lot of issues. we tried everything to make it go right, but the early fade was crazy. anyone got good baseline info to start at?


----------



## cerberus (Apr 8, 2012)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> You're high man. Buy some Dynagro and be done with it. That is crazy high prices.


I am always high.

and don't worry about my accounting meng, i get my ROI. I have tried dyna and GH and i do see differences and although they arent defficent they arent vigorous either.. on the other end of that really fucking sharp knife is.. That is a crazy high price..

More than likely i will go back to H&G at around 450-500 a grow, unless Canna is just mind blowing, but at double the cost it better be mind and dick blowing.. and i just don't see that erb jumping outta my bowl and blowing me, but hey i'm hopeful..


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 8, 2012)

cerberus said:


> I am always high.
> 
> and don't worry about my accounting meng, i get my ROI. I have tried dyna and GH and i do see differences and although they arent defficent they arent vigorous either.. on the other end of that really fucking sharp knife is.. That is a crazy high price..
> 
> More than likely i will go back to H&G at around 450-500 a grow, unless Canna is just mind blowing, but at double the cost it better be mind and dick blowing.. and i just don't see that erb jumping outta my bowl and blowing me, but hey i'm hopeful..



Not hating that just seems really high in price to me.


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 8, 2012)

NightbirdX said:


> I had a buddy use dynagro. he followed the instructions, but still had a lot of issues. we tried everything to make it go right, but the early fade was crazy. anyone got good baseline info to start at?


I usually start at around 2ml of grow per gallon, and I run 3ml of protekt. I'll usually go to as high as 5ml gallon of grow, but I just watch the plant and don't really use my ppm meter. Right now I'm running 5ml of bloom per gallon for my bigger flowering plants they're like 2ft right now, but bushy as hell. I might go as high as 7ml depening how they look. Right now though I'm running 5ml bloom, 1ml grow, 3ml protekt, 1ml magpro. I would find homebrewers thread on here where he tests them. I might use some other additives later on, but now this is good for me.

Oh, and their directions are way too high of ppm. I don't think I go much higher than 1200ish ppms total iirc. Like I said, I don't measure. During veg it's probably more like 7-800ppm


----------



## cerberus (Apr 8, 2012)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Not hating that just seems really high in price to me.


Oh I know your not.

and it is. 

like i said, i will probably go back to H&G but i had to do the test to find out for myself. the bitch of it is, i think it's the boost that really gives it the resin drive.. so even eliminate everything else and go cheap-o General Hydro and your still in the 700$ range.

back to your point, shit is hella expensive


----------



## Someguy15 (Apr 8, 2012)

Veg with Ionic. Dirt cheap works great. Spend the real cash on the flowering nutes, that's where it matters.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 9, 2012)

So today i got my aqua hub control box to replace the cap one! This this is awsome! One con! Is it was
Sent in the aqua hub box! Zero in the way of private shipping, came to the addy with aqua hub ebb&flow control
All over it lol


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 9, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> So today i got my aqua hub control box to replace the cap one! This this is awsome! One con! Is it was
> Sent in the aqua hub box! Zero in the way of private shipping, came to the addy with aqua hub ebb&flow control
> All over it lol


I guess your mailman now knows who to go to for his smoke!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 9, 2012)

He know a bunk addy  never leave anything to chance!


----------



## Bigz2277 (Apr 9, 2012)

i wouldnt ship to where my garden is but thats just me ^_^, you gonna get back up and rolling HR?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 9, 2012)

Very little big just enough for personal and to try new flavors!


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## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 10, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> So today i got my aqua hub control box to replace the cap one! This this is awsome! One con! Is it was
> Sent in the aqua hub box! Zero in the way of private shipping, came to the addy with aqua hub ebb&flow control
> All over it lol


My ebb n flow unit came the same way. I was a little irked to say the least.


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 10, 2012)

Hey, any of you guys see the new Sentinel Ebb & Flow system. Looks pretty badass. 2.5 gallon buckets. Drain is underneath so they claim it drains completely. 3/4" tubing. Comes with a Sentinel controller and they claim it can sense leaks.


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 10, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Hey, any of you guys see the new Sentinel Ebb & Flow system. Looks pretty badass. 2.5 gallon buckets. Drain is underneath so they claim it drains completely. 3/4" tubing. Comes with a Sentinel controller and they claim it can sense leaks.


Wow, sounds pretty badass.


----------



## drgreentm (Apr 10, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Hey, any of you guys see the new Sentinel Ebb & Flow system. Looks pretty badass. 2.5 gallon buckets. Drain is underneath so they claim it drains completely. 3/4" tubing. Comes with a Sentinel controller and they claim it can sense leaks.


man i have been tracking this thing since before it even had a price tag on it, thing looks awesome! each site is raised up and has a drain on the bottom instead of the side. sure its going to be a great system. if i was interested in switching up i would get it in a heartbeat.


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 10, 2012)

kinda pricy though. I got my cap system for like 350$ shipped. Factory refurb, but I'd rather have the refurb because they should have fixed any of the problems they had. It's been doing good for me for almost a year now.


----------



## drgreentm (Apr 10, 2012)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> kinda pricy though. I got my cap system for like 350$ shipped. Factory refurb, but I'd rather have the refurb because they should have fixed any of the problems they had. It's been doing good for me for almost a year now.


I agree it is pricey, I got my cap system for the same shipped and it works great as well. Also they are priced at around 550 and that only includes 6 sites and no res so I would need at least 12 more sites and I would just use the cap res.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 10, 2012)

I to have been watching for a release of it! But if i upgrade to it i will just get the bucket


----------



## drgreentm (Apr 10, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I to have been watching for a release of it! But if i upgrade to it i will just get the bucket


thats a good idea although i like the controller and sentinel is a great product i just dont know if it would be worth the extra $ just for a controller?


----------



## cerberus (Apr 10, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Hey, any of you guys see the new Sentinel Ebb & Flow system. Looks pretty badass. 2.5 gallon buckets. Drain is underneath so they claim it drains completely. 3/4" tubing. Comes with a Sentinel controller and they claim it can sense leaks.


I hope it is nice. since titan only got in the gro-n-flo game because sentinel dropped the ball so hard earlier. I had heard (and knowing titan's normal product line) they really wanted nothing to do with this product but were basically forced into it by consumer demand.. :/

I hope the sentinel's are nice but that DIY that HR's posted earlier is probably where my money will go.


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 10, 2012)

cerberus said:


> I hope it is nice. since titan only got in the gro-n-flo game because sentinel dropped the ball so hard earlier. I had heard (and knowing titan's normal product line) they really wanted nothing to do with this product but were basically forced into it by consumer demand.. :/
> 
> I hope the sentinel's are nice but that DIY that HR's posted earlier is probably where my money will go.


The controller bucket on it looks really efficient. Like it doesn't leave water sitting in the bottom or in the tubing. You guys are right though; $500 for the unit with no reservoir (You do get a Sentinel Controller though) and then like $125 for every 6 pot add on. I like the idea that you can put the controller anywhere; it doesn't have to be on the bucket. I'm looking into a DIY undercurrent system right now. That's where I think I'm headed.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 10, 2012)

Uc is going to be a goal im leading up to but for now im going to ware out my ebb first lol


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## cerberus (Apr 10, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> The controller bucket on it looks really efficient. Like it doesn't leave water sitting in the bottom or in the tubing. You guys are right though; $500 for the uniet with no reservoir (You do get a Sentinel Controller though) and then like $125 for every 6 pot add on. I like the idea that you can put the controller anywhere; it doesn't have to be on the bucket. I'm looking into a DIY undercurrent system right now. That's where I think I'm headed.


yeah, i got some cooling to worry about before i go UC.

gonna turn my 25,000 gallon pool into my water cooled rez.  HOLLA!


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 10, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Uc is going to be a goal im leading up to but for now im going to ware out my ebb first lol





cerberus said:


> yeah, i got some cooling to worry about before i go UC.
> 
> gonna turn my 25,000 gallon pool into my water cooled rez.  HOLLA!


That's what I'm working toward for early next year. Might DIY a small 4-6 site system and trial it for a while. I have everything I would need short a few air stones. The Current Culture systems are SOO expensive for some pumps and PVC. You could DIY a system for like a 1/5th of what they charge. I'm thinking 10gal. buckets with a 16gal. control bucket. I wanna do shorter distances than they advertise. No need to waste all that space.

That's gonna be a HUGE reservoir. Hope you don't plan on swimming in it too. You need to add some chemicals to a water cooling reservoir that you might not want to be bathing in.


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 10, 2012)

That reminds me. Hey Hell, how's the Heat Exchanger working out? Did you get the problem fixed? Also, you should add some Propylene Glycol to your chiller reservoir. It's cheap; like $5 a gallon. Just make sure it is only propylene glycol and doesn't have any other coolants in it. Should be pink in color. You can pick it up at most hardwar stores and gas stations sometimes. It's RV/Marine antifreeze. If it's more than $5 a gallon then it's not what you want. 25-30% mix with your water.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 10, 2012)

How much should i add to the res?


----------



## cerberus (Apr 10, 2012)

yeah they charge a lot because people hate DIY, and the UC is pretty tech but imho if you can't build that system you have no right trying to run it. good call bro.

I was thinking i might be able to skip those chems, and just run chlorine in the summer, and some sort of anti-freeze in the winter (unless 10K worth of heat keeps her open all winter!) lol 




phillipchristian said:


> That's what I'm working toward for early next year. Might DIY a small 4-6 site system and trial it for a while. I have everything I would need short a few air stones. The Current Culture systems are SOO expensive for some pumps and PVC. You could DIY a system for like a 1/5th of what they charge. I'm thinking 10gal. buckets with a 16gal. control bucket. I wanna do shorter distances than they advertise. No need to waste all that space.
> 
> That's gonna be a HUGE reservoir. Hope you don't plan on swimming in it too. You need to add some chemicals to a water cooling reservoir that you might not want to be bathing in.


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 10, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> How much should i add to the res?


If your chiller is outside and it get's cold where you are then 50/50 solution. It's warm where I am so I only need a 25% solution. It's really more to extend the life of your coil. It will reduce build ups and stop rust and deposits. Will save your ass to if the pumps ever fail and that water just sits in your chiller. If you have it inside then 25% is fine.


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 10, 2012)

cerberus said:


> yeah they charge a lot because people hate DIY, and the UC is pretty tech but imho if you can't build that system you have no right trying to run it. good call bro.
> 
> I was thinking i might be able to skip those chems, and just run chlorine in the summer, and some sort of anti-freeze in the winter (unless 10K worth of heat keeps her open all winter!) lol


The sytem itself seems pretty low tech for the most part. You just need to redesign your nutrient plan and any benes you are running. Those systems make for super fragile plants.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 10, 2012)

Ok phillip il go with 25% plus il use distiled water


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 11, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Ok phillip il go with 25% plus il use distiled water


Good call. I use R/O water but distilled is the same.


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## cerberus (Apr 11, 2012)

fragile plants = tech
lots of fittings = tech
lots of float flaves (at least what i have seen)


still a great system.

p.s.

i have afriend that just froze out all the radiators on his condinsorless chiller because the tmps got to cold and no glyc.. :/


----------



## cues (Apr 11, 2012)

Back to the subject, my biggest tip is to take the pumps out every 4 weeks and flush them through with white vinegar, whilst running for an hour, then flush with clean water and replace. Stops calcium build-up blocking them.


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 11, 2012)

cerberus said:


> fragile plants = tech
> lots of fittings = tech
> lots of float flaves (at least what i have seen)
> 
> ...


I'm a real estate developer so I know a lot about plumbing and electrical. I guess to me it doesn't really seem that complicated. Buckets, Grommets, PVC, T-Ball Valves, Mag Drive Pump, Air Pump, Air Stones, Wort Coil, 1 Float Valve. No more work than a DWC or Ebb & Flow would be. 

As for the plants being fragile, I think all hydro plants are fragile. Maybe UC more than other but I don't know cause I haven't tried it yet. 

That sucks about your buddy. I blew a 5hp chiller like that a while back when the pump when out. Got a HVAC guy to repair it though. Wasn't too bad on the wallet. Had to throw portable a/c units in the room and some DIY fixes for other things on the fly. Plants never really recoved fully though. They were getting fried for like 5 hours before I knew what was going on.


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 11, 2012)

cues said:


> Back to the subject, my biggest tip is to take the pumps out every 4 weeks and flush them through with white vinegar, whilst running for an hour, then flush with clean water and replace. Stops calcium build-up blocking them.


Which pumps are you talking about? Chiller or Hydro?


----------



## cerberus (Apr 11, 2012)

I think we agree on this 100%, in my life tech doesn't mean hard just means being on top of it. The uc seems to be more fragil than other water, lower ppms, much higher wattage, yada yada.. that being said, i'll have a UC grow at some point.


yeah it sucks for him, but he's going to give me the unit to get it out of his garage, "i don't know if you can fix radiators or not, i don't care. get your truck and get it outta here"  his loss my gaine.. i don't think i'll need it w/ the 25,000 gal rez but hey, overkill? lol

so, you see any issue with running reg pool supplies during the summer and being able to swim in it?



phillipchristian said:


> I'm a real estate developer so I know a lot about plumbing and electrical. I guess to me it doesn't really seem that complicated. Buckets, Grommets, PVC, T-Ball Valves, Mag Drive Pump, Air Pump, Air Stones, Wort Coil, 1 Float Valve. No more work than a DWC or Ebb & Flow would be.
> 
> As for the plants being fragile, I think all hydro plants are fragile. Maybe UC more than other but I don't know cause I haven't tried it yet.
> 
> That sucks about your buddy. I blew a 5hp chiller like that a while back when the pump when out. Got a HVAC guy to repair it though. Wasn't too bad on the wallet. Had to throw portable a/c units in the room and some DIY fixes for other things on the fly. Plants never really recoved fully though. They were getting fried for like 5 hours before I knew what was going on.


@cues, i also like using bioclean in a 5 gal w/ hot water and run for a half hour or so, then rince. clean pumps run better.. i'm assuming your talking for nutes and not chillers.


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 11, 2012)

cerberus said:


> I think we agree on this 100%, in my life tech doesn't mean hard just means being on top of it. The uc seems to be more fragil than other water, lower ppms, much higher wattage, yada yada.. that being said, i'll have a UC grow at some point.
> 
> 
> yeah it sucks for him, but he's going to give me the unit to get it out of his garage, "i don't know if you can fix radiators or not, i don't care. get your truck and get it outta here"  his loss my gaine.. i don't think i'll need it w/ the 25,000 gal rez but hey, overkill? lol
> ...


Yea, you do need to be on top of that system it seems. I have flood tables now that are filled with hydroton and my plants sit in mesh pots fille with hydroton. I've been talking about doing something else for so long but out of all of the hydro systems I have tried this is just SOOO easy. I don't have to really worry about anything. The UC doesn't look so complicated from a engineering standpoint, but it sure does seem like you have little margin for error with the plants themselves. Fantastic results though. That's why I wanna try it. 

How big is the chiller? I really don't think it's even worth it to put it on the pool. I asked Pat over at Chillking about putting my 5hp chiller on my pool after I got it fixed and he said it wouldn't even make a dent in the temps. The ambient air and sunlight will heat the pool but then the hot water return from my room would just be too much in that large of a reservoir. That's why chiller reservoirs are so small. The reservoir on my 12hp chiller is 30 gallons. I have a 65,000 gallon pool and it needs a 10h AquaCal Heat Pump (Chiller) just to keep it cool and I'm not pumping any hot water into it. I think you'd need a big chiller to do what you plan on doing. You could probably keep the pool relatively cool just by evaporation and sprinklers but you really need the water to be like 60 degrees to use it as a heat exchanger in your room.

I don't see any issue with you being able to swim in it during the summer but I would think that the chemicals used to maintain pools can't be that good for a chiller.


----------



## cerberus (Apr 11, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Yea, you do need to be on top of that system it seems. I have flood tables now that are filled with hydroton and my plants sit in mesh pots fille with hydroton. I've been talking about doing something else for so long but out of all of the hydro systems I have tried this is just SOOO easy. I don't have to really worry about anything. The UC doesn't look so complicated from a engineering standpoint, but it sure does seem like you have little margin for error with the plants themselves. Fantastic results though. That's why I wanna try it.
> 
> How big is the chiller? I really don't think it's even worth it to put it on the pool. I asked Pat over at Chillking about putting my 5hp chiller on my pool after I got it fixed and he said it wouldn't even make a dent in the temps. The ambient air and sunlight will heat the pool but then the hot water return from my room would just be too much in that large of a reservoir. That's why chiller reservoirs are so small. The reservoir on my 12hp chiller is 30 gallons. I have a 65,000 gallon pool and it needs a 10h AquaCal Heat Pump (Chiller) just to keep it cool and I'm not pumping any hot water into it. I think you'd need a big chiller to do what you plan on doing. You could probably keep the pool relatively cool just by evaporation and sprinklers but you really need the water to be like 60 degrees to use it as a heat exchanger in your room.
> 
> I don't see any issue with you being able to swim in it during the summer but I would think that the chemicals used to maintain pools can't be that good for a chiller.


this last line is a concern.

as for the pool temps, i used to have a 10'x20' solar panel attached to it, constantly feeding it hot water and the thing never never heats up; always shaded, north facing, i live in cold-ville BUT that being said over heating the pool and killing my cooling system is a mistake i can not afford..

I was thinking about grabbing his compressorless (its chillkings/hydroinovations compresslerss) and having it as a back up.. with it's own 55gal drum.

thanks for all the heads up, much appriciated


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## cues (Apr 11, 2012)

I was talking about nutes.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 11, 2012)

Sup fellas hows everybody morning going  going to be slaving again on the water system lol got lots of parts to collect


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## phillipchristian (Apr 11, 2012)

cerberus said:


> this last line is a concern.
> 
> as for the pool temps, i used to have a 10'x20' solar panel attached to it, constantly feeding it hot water and the thing never never heats up; always shaded, north facing, i live in cold-ville BUT that being said over heating the pool and killing my cooling system is a mistake i can not afford..
> 
> ...


Send me a PM if you decide to go with a Chillking unit. I know the owner and I could probably get you a 15-20% discount.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 12, 2012)

So i picked up a pair of method seven glasses today! And all i got to say is everybody should have these, just google it
There strait up uber!!


----------



## Warlock1369 (Apr 13, 2012)

The cost is the only thing holding me back. Till then I get mine at my welding store. Shade 4 UVA/UVB protected. And feel like sun glasses. $25 a pair. But don't get me wrong I'm still trying to justify buying a set sence I'm under my lights about 4 hours a day. It's just hard spending it up front.


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 13, 2012)

Yeah, $200 is pretty out there.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 13, 2012)

Guys you got to look through them hps lights look like looking at a grow room with t5 its unreal way easyer
To see def on leaves! Its worth the 200$


----------



## Mithrandir420 (Apr 13, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> So i picked up a pair of method seven glasses today! And all i got to say is everybody should have these, just google it
> There strait up uber!!


I have been drooling over these but like others the price tag holds me back. However, I am wondering if I can find color corrected lenses for my Smith Sliders (Replaceable lenses) or another sunglass with the correct color lenses for less.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 13, 2012)

I have been looking for such a thing for years! But now its a thing of the past!


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## cerberus (Apr 13, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> The cost is the only thing holding me back. Till then I get mine at my welding store. Shade 4 UVA/UVB protected. And feel like sun glasses. $25 a pair. But don't get me wrong I'm still trying to justify buying a set sence I'm under my lights about 4 hours a day. It's just hard spending it up front.



i'm waiting for them to come in RX.. right now i rock okley, which run around 350 w/ an RX :/


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## phillipchristian (Apr 13, 2012)

cerberus said:


> i'm waiting for them to come in RX.. right now i rock okley, which run around 350 w/ an RX :/


That's what I wear. Mainly bcause of fishing but also as my everyday sunglasses. Oakley prescription polarized lenses. They are $300 just for the lenses. I have $300 Juliet frames as well.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 13, 2012)

Got the heat exchanger plumbed in and did a test on the level of sound! This thinf isnt any louder than a 4 in inline
Fan and there x2 16 in fans in it  moves a ton of air. Havnt tested the cooling of it but i will get to it soon.


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## cerberus (Apr 13, 2012)

i just had my juilets lifted from me.. for the ass to throw them in the arbage as soon as he put them on. yep polarized vr30 irdium is my lense of choice. i had to get the eye patch for now, just so i can get by until i can get the scratch for another pair of juilets.. :/ super pissed about that shit..

lol birds of a feather


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 13, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Got the heat exchanger plumbed in and did a test on the level of sound! This thinf isnt any louder than a 4 in inline
> Fan and there x2 16 in fans in it  moves a ton of air. Havnt tested the cooling of it but i will get to it soon.


Get that mofo chilling and start hanging some meat!!  Nice man. Keep us posted.


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 13, 2012)

cerberus said:


> i just had my juilets lifted from me.. for the ass to throw them in the arbage as soon as he put them on. yep polarized vr30 irdium is my lense of choice. i had to get the eye patch for now, just so i can get by until i can get the scratch for another pair of juilets.. :/ super pissed about that shit..
> 
> lol birds of a feather


I love the Juliets. Been wearing them for like 10 years now. They are great fishing glasses too. I have like 4 pairs; for fishing you want darker colors (blues, blacks) and for golf and driving I use the yellows and lighter shades. I've got the Ice Iridiums, Grey, and VR28 Black Iridiums in Polarized and the Gold ones too. I just send my glasses in every few years and get new lenses. They've even replaced a few for few because of scratches after less than a year. Great service from Oakley.


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 13, 2012)

Your plants look way greener? I know when i take my plants out of the grow area and look at them under natural light they are like 4x greener than I thought haha.


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## drgreentm (Apr 13, 2012)

cerberus said:


> i just had my juilets lifted from me.. for the ass to throw them in the arbage as soon as he put them on. yep polarized vr30 irdium is my lense of choice. i had to get the eye patch for now, just so i can get by until i can get the scratch for another pair of juilets.. :/ super pissed about that shit..
> 
> lol birds of a feather


i have had 3 pairs of juliets love the fucking things but i have had all 3 pairs stolen from me now i got the flack fackets polarized and love them to death. i cant go outside without wearing them!!!! i wear them in the grow too


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 14, 2012)

Flack jackets and half jacks are what i sport but im loving those method seven too


----------



## cerberus (Apr 14, 2012)

i'm grabbing the new x-squares in a week. like the revammed juilet.. If i saw the dude lifting them, i woulda beat his ass, shit take my money don't take my eyes!

I can't go outside with out eye protection on at all, any bit of sun and i'm fucked. grow room the same.. :/ irish decent, blues eyes, ALWAYS wear polarized, my eyes just can't take the suns abuse.. lol

but for now its those giant eye patches, polarized, vr30, black iridium, ani-reflect..


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## phillipchristian (Apr 14, 2012)

Hey C.A.P growers. Saw these online and thought of you guys. Haha. Precut tomato cages for your buckets. Can't tell if you get one or a pack for that price. If it's only 1 then i'll stick to my nursery cages; 10 for $30. 

http://www.randmsupply.com/productdisp.php?pid=1001&navid=72


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 14, 2012)

Those are bad ass but its only one for that price


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 17, 2012)

AN nute resipe


VEG. Should work out to close to 500-600 ppm
Base nutes. 

............................................Per gal.....................Per gal.........................Per gal. 
.............................................Grow....................... Micro..........................Bloom. 
..............................................7ml......................... 7ml.............................7ml.
veg.
Sups.
.............................................B-52...................... Sensi cal A....................Root excelarator ( house and gardens) 
..............................................4ml......................... 2ml............................ 1.2 ml



Early Bloom. Should work out to 1150 to 1200ppm

Base nutes............................Per gal......................Per gal......................... Per gal.
............................................Grow........................ Micro.......................... Bloom.
............................................13ml.........................13ml............................13ml.

Week 4-5
Late bloom. Should work out to 1000-1050 ppm

Base nutes...........................Per gal......................Per gal.........................Per gal.
...........................................Grow........................Micro...........................Bloom.
............................................6ml.........................13ml............................13ml.

sups
use the on the bottle times for when to add and drop!!

........................................Bud ignitor..................Big bud...........................B-52
............................................4ml..........................4ml...............................4ml.

.........................................Overdrive..................Rhino skin.....................Final phase.
............................................4ml..........................4ml...............................4ml.

.........................................Sensi cal B. Use sensi cal with every feeding!
............................................2ml.


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## akpaco (Apr 17, 2012)

Thanks Hellraizer!! Couple questions. Should I mix the base nutes to 500-600 then add the sups? I'm going to use h2o2 so should I still use the root excelurator? And should i use the root excel the whole time? And use the other supplements as directed?

Thanks!


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 17, 2012)

i dont see why not! try this take a gal of water add 1.2 ml to it and add 5ml of h202 and see what happen, the ball park ppms are base and sup together.
yep use the sups ass the bottle tells you to for when during the cycle to use it. its up to you if you can afford to use that much root excel then do it but I
dont just during veg.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 17, 2012)

Just picked up my active air 100 pint de- humidifier today cant wait to knock out some r/w


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## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 17, 2012)

anyone know of a good drain fitting I could get for the 55 gallon barrel?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 17, 2012)

Not off hand hornedfrog


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## phillipchristian (Apr 17, 2012)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> anyone know of a good drain fitting I could get for the 55 gallon barrel?


Any plumbing supply store or Home Depot will have something. Basically you want a grommet, some pvc, and a t-ball valve. Easy DIY drain.


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## akpaco (Apr 18, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> i dont see why not! try this take a gal of water add 1.2 ml to it and add 5ml of h202 and see what happen, the ball park ppms are base and sup together.
> yep use the sups ass the bottle tells you to for when during the cycle to use it. its up to you if you can afford to use that much root excel then do it but I
> dont just during veg.


So I chickened out with the h2o2 and just used grow,micro,bloom,b52,calmag and root accelerator. My ppm's minus my tap water are around 700. Can I just run with that till I switch over to bloom? This shit is going to make me crazy!


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 18, 2012)

Yep you can paco and when you flip to flower switch to the bloom resipe and you should be golden bro!
If you want post some pics! Would help me better read your plants! Up to you though


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## akpaco (Apr 18, 2012)

Hellraizer, Should I run an air stone with the nutes I'm using? Thanks


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## phillipchristian (Apr 18, 2012)

akpaco said:


> Hellraizer, Should I run an air stone with the nutes I'm using? Thanks


Providing oxygen to your roots in a hydro setup is a huge plus. Oxygenating your nutrient solution allows fo reasier uptake of nutrients by your plants and also helps to control temps and fungi/algae in your reservoir. Go for it.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 18, 2012)

Yep paco let the air do its thing bro


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 18, 2012)

Hey phillip i sent that h&m back and now looking for a new toy! What type exchanger your think i should get?


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## akpaco (Apr 19, 2012)

Thanks guys!!!


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 19, 2012)

Anytime akpaco


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## akpaco (Apr 20, 2012)

I just switched to 12/12... How many times do you flood in that period, 3-4? Thanks in advance!


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 20, 2012)

With hydrotron and under 20 buckets x4 floods during lights on and for 15min each flood.
Over 20 bucket 30min.

With growdan 0-30 buckets x2 during lights on and for 30min floods


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## dickkhead (Apr 20, 2012)

hey HR I have 2 4x4 flood tables on the way. this is what im planning 
9- 3 gallon smart pots with promix in each 4x4 with dyna gro
was going to run tap in my reservoir my tap is 70 ppm 
I wanted to do the promix so I can hand water them while there in the veg tent 4x4 ( veg in top and bottom of 4x4) and while Im waiting for the last round to finish in the 4x8 to finish ill veg them ( prob 4 weeks apart) then in the 4x8 table ill start with a flood cycle. what do you think of this? If im using this medium I fig itd need less flooding what would you do for W/d cycles? thanks for any help


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 21, 2012)

I would flood them as needed keep the pump unpluged and when they need water plug it in for a bit. Pro mix
Dont need water but like every three days


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## dickkhead (Apr 21, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I would flood them as needed keep the pump unpluged and when they need water plug it in for a bit. Pro mix
> Dont need water but like every three days


So you think I'll get good results using that ill do just that but i have a feeling theyll need water every other day. I might try a trey with the sure to grow medium have you heard anything about that?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 21, 2012)

If you growing large plants in little buckets you will end up watering a ton! But for you just watch your plants and soil 
And you will know the right time to water


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## dickkhead (Apr 21, 2012)

Well after my 2 hour drive to the hydro store the guy sold me on cocoa lol. Do you think tap is ok to run trying to fill 2 40 gall res is Gna be a pain in the ass using RO Everytime I need to do a change!!


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 21, 2012)

Im not fully understanding what your geting at?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 22, 2012)

Some of you might not know yet but im have been running tests with alternative methods of adding bennys to your res!
This goes out to all who dont want to brew tea but would like a more simple method.

So im over 1 1/2 weeks with just using aquashield adding strait to the res, at 200ml every three days and il report
Theres zero smell or signs of bactiria. Ph is rocl solid! Water uptake has been the same and roots are great looking!
Water temp is 65f at the res and 68f at the lower control box. So far aqua shield is doing its thing!

I will continue to report finding as i go, and also will take note of how dirty things are when i do
As res change for all who are interested.


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## Bigz2277 (Apr 22, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> Well after my 2 hour drive to the hydro store the guy sold me on cocoa lol. Do you think tap is ok to run trying to fill 2 40 gall res is Gna be a pain in the ass using RO Everytime I need to do a change!!


Do you not have a R/o unit attatched to the tap? or just buying the r/o. if you are concerned about the water quality a cheap r/o system can be bought for 100$, and as long as your not doing a huge op this should suffice.


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 22, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Some of you might not know yet but im have been running tests with alternative methods of adding bennys to your res!
> This goes out to all who dont want to brew tea but would like a more simple method.
> 
> So im over 1 1/2 weeks with just using aquashield adding strait to the res, at 200ml every three days and il report
> ...


Thanks for sharing bud. I've heard a ton of guys talk about Aquashield but I've never really checked it out. May have to take a look at it now. Keep me posted.


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## Bigz2277 (Apr 22, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Thanks for sharing bud. I've heard a ton of guys talk about Aquashield but I've never really checked it out. May have to take a look at it now. Keep me posted.


im 2 weeks into using it and no problems. I am sold.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 22, 2012)

Will do phillip


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## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 22, 2012)

I'm debating just going back to h2o2. I can get 5 gallons of it for $200 @ 35%. I just need to do a bit of math to see what it would last me. I would think close to a year. Probably worth it just to do it.


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## dickkhead (Apr 22, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Im not fully understanding what your geting at?


is tap water ok to run on the flood and drain? my tap is 50 ppm. and im using a coco medium instead of the promix like i sadi I was originaly going to run



Bigz2277 said:


> Do you not have a R/o unit attatched to the tap? or just buying the r/o. if you are concerned about the water quality a cheap r/o system can be bought for 100$, and as long as your not doing a huge op this should suffice.


]

I have an RO sytem I have it plummed to a 2.5 gallon reserve tank but in order fro me to change out 2 40 gallon reservoirs will take forver!! thats why id rather run tap. is there anyway to get constant pressure out of a RO system? or would I have to plum a seperate larger holding tank?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 22, 2012)

H202 has a shelf life and wont last a year hornedfrog, the aquashiel is 20 to 25 bucks a gal. 
Im thinking your better off with the bennys! Plus h202 will fail you at some point.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 22, 2012)

I use tap water bro with no il effects although r/o would be ideal!




dickkhead said:


> is tap water ok to run on the flood and drain? my tap is 50 ppm. and im using a coco medium instead of the promix like i sadi I was originaly going to run
> 
> ]
> 
> I have an RO sytem I have it plummed to a 2.5 gallon reserve tank but in order fro me to change out 2 40 gallon reservoirs will take forver!! thats why id rather run tap. is there anyway to get constant pressure out of a RO system? or would I have to plum a seperate larger holding tank?


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 22, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> is tap water ok to run on the flood and drain? my tap is 50 ppm. and im using a coco medium instead of the promix like i sadi I was originaly going to run
> 
> ]
> 
> I have an RO sytem I have it plummed to a 2.5 gallon reserve tank but in order fro me to change out 2 40 gallon reservoirs will take forver!! thats why id rather run tap. is there anyway to get constant pressure out of a RO system? or would I have to plum a seperate larger holding tank?


Hey bro! With 50ppm water I would just run tap. I wish my water was that clean.

If you really wanna use the R/O system then you need to create a reservoir for it out of a garbage can or 55 gallon drum. Use a float valve connected to the system. I'm not sure which R/O system you have but some of them sell seperate booster pumps as well. Either way you're going to need a reservoir.


----------



## dickkhead (Apr 22, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I use tap water bro with no il effects although r/o would be ideal!


no doubt!! glad to hear



phillipchristian said:


> Hey bro! With 50ppm water I would just run tap. I wish my water was that clean.
> 
> If you really wanna use the R/O system then you need to create a reservoir for it out of a garbage can or 55 gallon drum. Use a float valve connected to the system. I'm not sure which R/O system you have but some of them sell seperate booster pumps as well. Either way you're going to need a reservoir.


yea I just researched it and I could hook up a 40 gallon drum with a float valve for 150 bucks in parts, or buy a 40 gallon pressurized tank ( which would be bad ass) for 600.00 

for now Ill stick with tap. I have plumbing lines right next to my tent so Ill cut in a T and maybe a house filter and then a hose bibb. Id like to try an find a lead free garden hose to complete it!
thanks guys!!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 22, 2012)

Goodyear make food safe and lead free garden hoses


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 22, 2012)

Hey got a question that seems to attract some debate! Coco either in pure form or in ready gro form, WHAT is the correct
Ph level to use? Coco is a soiless medium so in my mind that means seting ph in the 5.6 to 6.0 range. But friends and forum
Threads claim it can go both ways, i have run it as a hydro soiless medium and in the 5 range. So lets hear your thought riu?


----------



## phillipchristian (Apr 22, 2012)

I've always run it at 5.8-6.0. Can't remember where I picked it up but it's always worked for me. Not sure if it has to do with coco having potassium in it but I know the extra potassium affects your bloom nute formula.


----------



## dickkhead (Apr 23, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Goodyear make food safe and lead free garden hoses


Awesome thanks for that


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 23, 2012)

No problemo!


----------



## akpaco (Apr 24, 2012)

HR, I'm attaching a pic of one of my leaves. This seems to be a continuing issue. I was away for a few days since I switched over to 12/12. I noticed some of the new growth on the plants were a little pale yellow? Also I used some go gnats a couple of weeks ago because I noticed some, not a lot in my res and buckets and this seemed to work. I used it for 2 weeks and stopped, it looks like there back. About the same as before. should I continue to use gognats? Thanks in advance!

PH 5.6-6.1
Res temp 63-66
PPM 1100-140 for tap


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 24, 2012)

Is that leaf off the lower part of the plant? Gnats in adult form are harmless but in new born form they live in your root zone
And eat your roots. I dont like gognats some people i know use bayer to cure it, theres a link in the first post on this thread
The op name is insane and he used bayer look it up bro!


----------



## akpaco (Apr 24, 2012)

HR, Here are some pics. The discolored leaves sporadically on plant are the ones in the picture of last post. The other pictures show the new growth is a little pale. I just emptied my res it looked like shit water, but didn't smell. My probes were covered in brown slime. So i emptied it and now I have no idea what I should put back in there. Not sure what could of caused the brown water. The water wasn't as bad as the probes and the cords as it seemed they kind of attracted the slime. When I switched to 12/12 used.

Grow
Micro 
Bloom
B52
CalMag
Bud ignitor
Big bud
Carbo load


What do you think caused my water to get so brown? Also the pale color on some of the new growth on top? Some of the leaves in the pictures look real dark bluish green, there not. its the camera setting. Sorry for being a pain in the ass but first go at this. Thanks again!


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 24, 2012)

Is this your first grow? Just wondering. Anyway, in my experience when you flip to 12/12 the bud sites turn a little yellowish green.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 24, 2012)

Stop using carboload it feed bactiria and can be dirty! Also bud ignitor is a bit dirty also but if its not smelling 
Bad and your ph isnt wack then it should be fine just clean it good and refill -the carbo load



akpaco said:


> HR, Here are some pics. The discolored leaves sporadically on plant are the ones in the picture of last post. The other pictures show the new growth is a little pale. I just emptied my res it looked like shit water, but didn't smell. My probes were covered in brown slime. So i emptied it and now I have no idea what I should put back in there. Not sure what could of caused the brown water. The water wasn't as bad as the probes and the cords as it seemed they kind of attracted the slime. When I switched to 12/12 used.
> 
> Grow
> Micro
> ...


----------



## hellraizer30 (Apr 24, 2012)

@akpaco start using sensi cal B instead of cal/mag 

From what i can see there doing great!


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 24, 2012)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Is this your first grow? Just wondering. Anyway, in my experience when you flip to 12/12 the bud sites turn a little yellowish green.


hornedfrog right i get a bit of pale green during the start of bloom.
The lower yellowing is nitrogen def. But not bad at all


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## akpaco (Apr 24, 2012)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Is this your first grow? Just wondering. Anyway, in my experience when you flip to 12/12 the bud sites turn a little yellowish green.



Hfrog, This is my fifth grow but first using ebb & gro. Last five were all in dirt. Thanks for the info!


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## akpaco (Apr 24, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> @akpaco start using sensi cal B instead of cal/mag
> 
> From what i can see there doing great!


HR, Ok cool! The "GUY" at the grow shop told me to use carboload... I cleaned the res and refilled it with fresh water and h2O2 and flushed. I'll refill and use everything but carboload. And I did switch to calmag bloom. Thanks again!!


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 24, 2012)

You are following that feeding chart right?

Nothing against that guy at the shop but they dont know much about these systems!
Why i work so hard at helping folks here! Just to many miss lead growers out there


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## akpaco (Apr 25, 2012)

HR, yup. 13ml per gallon grow,micro,bloom. 4ml per gallon b52,bud igniter,big bud and 2ml of sensical bloom..


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## Bigz2277 (Apr 25, 2012)

Hey Hr, have you gotten a chance to work with the GGG Bright moments? Grape stomper x grape stomper OG. I might have found my next order. what ya think?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 25, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR, yup. 13ml per gallon grow,micro,bloom. 4ml per gallon b52,bud igniter,big bud and 2ml of sensical bloom..


Good good akpaco you should see the yellowing start to go away! Know this leaves that are yellow will not turn back to green.
So pinch them off so you can keep track your mag issues


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 25, 2012)

Bigz2277 said:


> Hey Hr, have you gotten a chance to work with the GGG Bright moments? Grape stomper x grape stomper OG. I might have found my next order. what ya think?


If you can grab that shit im still waiting for it in the mail! Its fire


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## akpaco (Apr 27, 2012)

HR, I guess I'm not totally understanding the ph perfect. Can I let the ph rise above 6.1? And will it come back down by itself? Thanks


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 27, 2012)

No it wont come back down, the science behind it goes like this. When you mix your nutes up your ph should be close to 5.7 but if 
Not adjust to 5.6 and as time goes by it will rise, let it rise to 6.5 then re adjust it to 5.6. Advananced has formulated it to where
Your plant wont lockout in between these ranges 5.6 to 6.5


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## akpaco (Apr 27, 2012)

Got it! Thanks my friend!!


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 27, 2012)

No problem, another thing that could help a ton to is adding aquashield every three days at 200ml per 55gals.
This will keep your bactiria in check and add to root growth! Also if you want to get them roots to blow up get
Some root excelarator from house and gardens in less than a week you should see great improvments


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## phillipchristian (Apr 27, 2012)

Hey Hellraizer, so the aquashield is running smoothly? Are you running it with your tea? Think there are any negative affects to running a product like that with bennies?


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## hornedfrog2000 (Apr 27, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> Hey Hellraizer, so the aquashield is running smoothly? Are you running it with your tea? Think there are any negative affects to running a product like that with bennies?


All aquashield is is bennies. It's just chicken shit bennie tea that a company made.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 27, 2012)

Yep aquashield is just a compost solution, that we use in brewing tea, but a riu member mentioned using it plain by adding
Strait to the res every three days sa i gave it a go. And it seem the work smooth


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## phillipchristian (Apr 27, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Yep aquashield is just a compost solution, that we use in brewing tea, but a riu member mentioned using it plain by adding
> Strait to the res every three days sa i gave it a go. And it seem the work smooth


Are you running it with your tea? Does it reduce oh creep like the tea does?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 27, 2012)

No i stopped the tea and just running the aquashiel atm and yep its keeping the creep at bay


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## akpaco (Apr 28, 2012)

Are you still running an air stone with Aquashield?


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## dickkhead (Apr 28, 2012)

hey Im trying to find a 4x4 od trey liner but cant find one any suggestions? im using in the top half of my 4x4 tent and wanted to be able to change a liner rather then scrubbing it out


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## nuglets (Apr 28, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> hey Im trying to find a 4x4 od trey liner but cant find one any suggestions? im using in the top half of my 4x4 tent and wanted to be able to change a liner rather then scrubbing it out


smart pots makes a 4x4 tray liner. (http://www.greners.com/i/pots-tables-reservoirs/products/smart-pots/smart-pot-tray-liner-4x4x1.html)


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 28, 2012)

akpaco said:


> Are you still running an air stone with Aquashield?


Yep aquashield is air stone safe


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 28, 2012)

Nice post nuglets i might pick one of those up


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## nuglets (Apr 28, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Nice post nuglets i might pick one of those up


just trying to help the little that i can... the weird thing is that i think it's only 1" deep though.


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## dickkhead (Apr 28, 2012)

on a 4x4 flood table what would you guys use for pots? I was going to do the smart pots in one 4x4 and thinkin about doing mesh bottom pots in the other? both with coco medium or pro mix


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## nuglets (Apr 28, 2012)

i think if you are on a table then go for mesh bottom pots. something like these:



then you need to fill the tray with hydroton or coco. i have a buddy who grows this way and he get's great results. i've seen some info that says that when you give roots room to spread out in the tray then you get better plants and they ar more stable and stronger. just make sure you put enough hydroton or coco to give good cover for the roots.


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## dickkhead (Apr 28, 2012)

nuglets said:


> i think if you are on a table then go for mesh bottom pots. something like these:
> 
> View attachment 2144404
> 
> then you need to fill the tray with hydroton or coco. i have a buddy who grows this way and he get's great results. i've seen some info that says that when you give roots room to spread out in the tray then you get better plants and they ar more stable and stronger. just make sure you put enough hydroton or coco to give good cover for the roots.


 Thanks for that! What size mesh pots? And don't u meant fill the pots with coco or hydroton not the trey?


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## phillipchristian (Apr 28, 2012)

You fill the pot and the tray. If you fill the tray then the roots can spread out in the tray and you get larger, healthier plants in my opinion. If you just use the pots then your roots will just auto prune themselves. Plus it saves you on water and nutes cause you don't have to use as much to flood the tray.


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## dickkhead (Apr 28, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> You fill the pot and the tray. If you fill the tray then the roots can spread out in the tray and you get larger, healthier plants in my opinion. If you just use the pots then your roots will just auto prune themselves. Plus it saves you on water and nutes cause you don't have to use as much to flood the tray.


No doubt sounds like a hell of a clean up lol. But what size mesh bottom pots #10 or #12 and how many?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 28, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> on a 4x4 flood table what would you guys use for pots? I was going to do the smart pots in one 4x4 and thinkin about doing mesh bottom pots in the other? both with coco medium or pro mix


I like 6 in hugo blocks


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## phillipchristian (Apr 28, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> No doubt sounds like a hell of a clean up lol. But what size mesh bottom pots #10 or #12 and how many?


How many will depend on the size of your tray and the size of the plants you are growing. If you are growing small plants or SOG then you can fit more on a tray. If you grow larger plants like I do you can't fit as many per tray. It's not 100% accurate but I find that for every 2.5' you go vertical then you need 1sq.ft. horizontally. That's based on where your plants finish at harvest. So if you veg to 12" and your strain will get to 3' by harvest then figure you can fit 16 on a tray.

Pot size is basically the same. Bigger plants need bigger pots. You don't have to go that big in this setup though cause the medium in the tray acts like a support system as well. I grow 4-5' plants and use 8" pots.

The cleanup is not bad at all. After you harvest just let the tray soak in some water and Hygrozyme for a day. 15ml per Gallon. This will get the plant matter of the hydroton. Drain it and use the table to wash your hydroton. Just connect the drain fitting to a hose and drain to waste. Get a garden hose and rinse it all out.


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## dickkhead (Apr 28, 2012)

phillipchristian said:


> How many will depend on the size of your tray and the size of the plants you are growing. If you are growing small plants or SOG then you can fit more on a tray. If you grow larger plants like I do you can't fit as many per tray. It's not 100% accurate but I find that for every 2.5' you go vertical then you need 1sq.ft. horizontally. That's based on where your plants finish at harvest. So if you veg to 12" and your strain will get to 3' by harvest then figure you can fit 16 on a tray.
> 
> Pot size is basically the same. Bigger plants need bigger pots. You don't have to go that big in this setup though cause the medium in the tray acts like a support system as well. I grow 4-5' plants and use 8" pots.
> 
> The cleanup is not bad at all. After you harvest just let the tray soak in some water and Hygrozyme for a day. 15ml per Gallon. This will get the plant matter of the hydroton. Drain it and use the table to wash your hydroton. Just connect the drain fitting to a hose and drain to waste. Get a garden hose and rinse it all out.


Thanks for that I'm in a 4x4 trey


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## akpaco (Apr 30, 2012)

HR, I changed my res yesterday and added some aquashield and I already had some root excel.. My question is I'm going to start having to add back since my plants are using a lot of water.. Could you explain to me the best way to do this? Thanks in advance..


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 30, 2012)

Sup akpaco this might seem a bit redneck way of doing it but there really no math.
i just wait till the res is about half full then add water, till its full. Before i add nutes
i take note how high the ppm was before i added water, then after. Normally at half
full it would be 1300 and after adding water it would be 900, so i would add 100ml of
grow 100ml of micro and 100ml bloom, then a 25ml shot of sensi cal b. this gets it back 
to around 1100ish


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## akpaco (Apr 30, 2012)

HR, that sounds easy enough! Do you use/recommend any sweetener? Thanks again bro!!


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 30, 2012)

Addin sugars or sweeting agents in my exp only cause a outbreak of bad bactiria in the ebb&grow systems, although im still
searching for a stable sweetener. Best thing i have came across is pinapple rush by GH, but beware!


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 30, 2012)

Aquashield update! Almost week 4 and the res is the cleanest ive seen in a grip!
ph is still solid and water/nute uptake is off the chain. 

Another thing i have done is back of flooding to x2 a day for 15min from x3 at 15min.
and no change in the rapid growth. Checked the roots and im geting a more soil type
roots by flooding less, lots of super fine hairs vs the long worm looking types. I feel this
is a better root!


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## akpaco (Apr 30, 2012)

HR, Thanks! I have started using aquashield. I'm currently watering 4 times in 12 hours. Should I cut that back? Everything seems to be going pretty good.


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 30, 2012)

Are you using hydrotron? Or growdan?


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## akpaco (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm using hydroton..


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 30, 2012)

Then stay with flooding 4 times, im using growdan holds alot more water


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## akpaco (Apr 30, 2012)

Ok, do you put your clones in growdan then put them in your big pots with hydroton? I'll be taking clones soon and was wondering how you do it without using an aerocloner deal?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 30, 2012)

I root clones in growdan/rockwool cubes then transplat to either 4 or 6 in hugo blocks in a flood table then once there 18 in tall
i move then to ebb&grow buckets and flip them to flower the same day.


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## akpaco (Apr 30, 2012)

Ok, how would you recommend I do it without the use of flood tables and allowing them to only veg in my room for maybe say 4 weeks?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 30, 2012)

You could veg them in your ebb, i just do it the way i do to aviod vegging under hids, I like t5 for veg.
not really sure how much room you have? Do you have a bloom room and veg room?


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## akpaco (Apr 30, 2012)

Just one room.. But I do have a small tent with LED's where I was vegging when I was using dirt.. It would be nice to cut down on veg time but I will have to veg for a little while in my room no matter what. I guess what I need to know is what to put my clones in so at some point I can transplant them into my ebb and gro pots and hydroton? Can I put the growdan in my pots with the hydroton?


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## hellraizer30 (Apr 30, 2012)

Well ideal setup would be to have your clones in just the inner bucket. while they veg! But if space is a issue i would do a drain to waist, in 6in pot with growdan and put like 1in of hydrotron on the bottom. Water like once a day, reason i say growdan is you can hand water and not take a chance on them drying out! Plus you can use all kinds of bennys to jack them roots up. And drain to waist
will help with space not having a res tank! For the best lighting you might want to get a t5 lighting setup if your planning on using your small tent to do this in. 

So veg them in growdan 6in pots, and transplant to the ebb in hydrotron.

Hope this helps


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## akpaco (Apr 30, 2012)

I should have the room to put my clones in the inner buckets. So then do you put your clones in a rapid rooter or root shooter plugs then into your inner buckets with hydroton or do you take your clones then put them directly into hydroton? Sorry for all the questions! Thanks


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## hellraizer30 (May 1, 2012)

My clones are already rooted in r/w cubes

Do you use a cloner?


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## markybuds (May 1, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> No it wont come back down, the science behind it goes like this. When you mix your nutes up your ph should be close to 5.7 but if
> Not adjust to 5.6 and as time goes by it will rise, let it rise to 6.5 then re adjust it to 5.6. Advananced has formulated it to where
> Your plant wont lockout in between these ranges 5.6 to 6.5


theres no need to ever adjust your ph when using ph perfect.


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## hellraizer30 (May 1, 2012)

I disagree if it goes outside 6.5 but thats my 2cents never let it go so maybe your right


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## akpaco (May 1, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> My clones are already rooted in r/w cubes
> 
> Do you use a cloner?


No cloner.. In the past I would take clones in root shooter plugs then put them into dirt. But now that I'm using ebb and gro with hydroton I'm not sure what is the best option for my setup? Can I put the clones in r/w cubes then put them into bigger r/w cubes and veg them for a while then put bigger cube right into the hydroton?


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## akpaco (May 1, 2012)

markybuds said:


> theres no need to ever adjust your ph when using ph perfect.



I talked to someone at AN. He told me you do not need to adjust the PH at all when using PH perfect. He also mentioned that it could possibly be detrimental to do so. He also said the plants could uptake nutes as low as 4.0. Nut sure I would be comfortable with that myself. I will give it a try and not adjust my PH. After I mix my nutes I'm right around 5.9-6.0 anyway.Just FYI..


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## hellraizer30 (May 1, 2012)

akpaco said:


> No cloner.. In the past I would take clones in root shooter plugs then put them into dirt. But now that I'm using ebb and gro with hydroton I'm not sure what is the best option for my setup? Can I put the clones in r/w cubes then put them into bigger r/w cubes and veg them for a while then put bigger cube right into the hydroton?


Yep you can paco, and if you want you can use rootshooters and go strait to hydrotron to


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## akpaco (May 1, 2012)

You have to put them into something else after the rootshooters, right? So I need to go from my rootshooters to inner buckets with hydroton and veg then move them into my room?


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## hellraizer30 (May 1, 2012)

Yep rootshooters then inner buckets then off to the bloom room in the ebb system


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## hellraizer30 (May 2, 2012)

mjsmoker2012 said:


> is the a yeild advantage to do ebb and flow to the other hydro techniques


Not geting what your asking?


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## nuglets (May 2, 2012)

mjsmoker2012 said:


> is the a yeild advantage to do ebb and flow to the other hydro techniques


there's 2 types of ebb&flow systems. tables and individual grow sites (buckets). you can usually grow bigger plants in the buckets and you can set them up how you like.


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## brightskies (May 3, 2012)

_Flooding in 68 seconds every 60 minutes..._

Been lurking and learning here for a long time, my thanks to all. Still a rookie, always playing around and having just a little too much fun! Here's my latest creation. All feedback is encouraged, especially the constructive type! I already have a list going for next time.

It takes 68 seconds to flood all four 5-gal pots filled with hydroton (one pot has since been removed). Then they soak for about 30 seconds before taking 2 minutes to drain. The 1/3 hp utility pump on a 1 1/4" line blasts water into the controller bucket, creating a lot of surface tension and bubbles as it fills. Each pot is served by two direct 3/4 inch lines. All straight connectors, no nineties. Standing next to the pots, you can hear air gurgling through the lines as the water rushes to fill the buckets. The "drain" uses 3 smaller pumps and is a little slower. 


Control bucket= Rubbermaid 20 gal. garbage can. 3/4 inch bulkhead fittings from hydro store. I only have 8 bulkheads installed, but it could accommodate many more all the way around. The bottom of this garbage can is really nice too, since there is a kind of gutter around the bottom, allowing the 3 pumps in the middle to be almost dry while still sucking water from the outer gutter.

Buckets= 5 gal buckets with TWO 3/4" holes/grommets in each. I'm running 3 under a 1k. 

Float Switches= They are adjustable up and down, sliding on an acrylic rod and can be locked in any position. The float switch stand assembly sits somewhat freely in the bottom of the bucket, with the top rod extending through a tight hole in the rubbermaid lid to give it supprt. It is a somewhat fragile assembly, but I've never broken it. Even when I thought I should have! It came with the controller. No need to drill holes for the floats and the wires come out of the top. 

Controller= Remote mounted on the wall. It works great, the only negative is the red led readout that is on for a bit of time before lights on. A little duct tape minimizes that. The controller itself is on a regular timer to prevent it from coming on during the dark period. Flood frequency adjusts from 1-999 minutes. Once the controller bucket is filled, there is an adjustable soak time of 1-999 seconds. It also has a one-button cycle feature which allows you to turn it on without having to mess with your settings. Once it is emptied, the flood frequency timer resets. It does not have a "slosh" feature. Once the float switches trip, that's it until the next cycle. So, you have to do a small bit of adjustment at set-up to get the right flood level in the pots themselves. I set my flood level so that the 4" rockwool block stays dry. So far, it has barely deviated from the original level I set; even with all of the root growth now in the pots. Not to mention that I somehow put the starts in a couple of inches too low in the hydroton/pot this time when they were babies and lost a couple of inches in flood height Definitely not a perfect run this time. They don't seem to care! 


Flooding= A 1/3 hp utility pump, like a sump pump. The pump I got on amazon has a 1 1/4" output fitting, not all do. I also run a small 300 gph pump on a 1/2" line for back-up, in case the big pump fails.

Draining= Three 350 gph pumps in the control bucket for draining, all on 1/2" lines going back to the reservoir. But, I'm going to try to run another big pump for draining on the next run.

This is the first run with this new set-up; and the second run with this Dutchgrown Dieselrella plant. Last time, I grew one clone in a 2 gal. and another clone in a 5 gal. pot, using two "regular" control buckets. The 5 gallon plant grew significantly bigger. This new system seems to be blowing that one away so far.

Here's some pics. I just got done replacing a bad pump and see a couple of things I didn't put back into place just right:





All 3 plants are a Dutchgrown Dieselrella: cut/clone +18 days on T5, 15 veg with 1k, day 32 flw today. Last time, this plant took about 70 days flw to finish. She is vigorous!


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## hellraizer30 (May 3, 2012)

Thanks for stoping by! Nice setup! Got to take in what you got going lol


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## dickkhead (May 4, 2012)

on a flood and drain table Im going to run 3 gallon smart pots with coco for this first run. do you think if I used 6'' rockwool cubes and then filled the 4x4 table with hydroton the plants would perform better?


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## hellraizer30 (May 4, 2012)

Plants might cause theres roots to exspand out! It would also take less water to flood the tray


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## akpaco (May 4, 2012)

HR, things are going good! My plants definitely seem to be doing better on AN G/M/B.. So I thought I read somewhere about when your res level drops and your ppm's rise slightly? Is it because your plants are using a lot more water? Thanks?


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## dickkhead (May 4, 2012)

Yea thts what I'm thinking I'm Gna try it on my next run!


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## hellraizer30 (May 5, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR, things are going good! My plants definitely seem to be doing better on AN G/M/B.. So I thought I read somewhere about when your res level drops and your ppm's rise slightly? Is it because your plants are using a lot more water? Thanks?[/
> 
> Yep you got it righ! It goes in phases through out the cycle


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## nuglets (May 5, 2012)

hey hellraizer, can you give me an opinion on this? i'm on on the right path? gave them neem oil soak on the bottom of the pot and a neem oil watering to get it in the soil. then after they dried up a little sprayed them with doktor doom spider mite knockout (says its for aphids too) on the bottom of the pots.

*https://www.rollitup.org/bugs/525951-little-fuckers-my-soil.html*


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## akpaco (May 9, 2012)

HR, when my water level goes down and my ppm's go up can I just add water to bring the ppm's back down if I'm not filling it back up? Thanks


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## hellraizer30 (May 9, 2012)

Yep if your ppm raise to where you dont like how high it is then just add water till its where you want it.
You wont be able to fill the res full, overtime you will have to fill it all the way up and do a add back.


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## nuglets (May 9, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Yep if your ppm raise to where you dont like how high it is then just add water till its where you want it.
> You wont be able to fill the res full, overtime you will have to fill it all the way up and do a add back.


thanks for the advice on the aphids hellraizer. i pm'd that guy and he got back to me with what he was using and dosages and everything. thanks for the hookup.


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## hellraizer30 (May 9, 2012)

Always trying to help nug


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## Living The Dream (May 10, 2012)

what up fellas? how's everyone doing?


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## akpaco (May 10, 2012)

HR, just overnight I went in my room and my ppm's were up to 1450! I added some more water to bring it down since I'll be changing it out tomorrow anyway. Just in that short time I did get a little nute burn on the tips. I'm assuming when I fill it up and do an add back I won't have such a dramatic Swing in ppm's. This is obviously my first time at this stage so any additional advice? Thanks in advance.


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## hellraizer30 (May 10, 2012)

Dam you got tip burn at 1450, when you do your add back tomorrow mix it up with less.
not much less just a bit. Can you post a pic or to


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## dickkhead (May 11, 2012)

Hr on my flood table I'm using 3 gallon smart pots with roots coco which has a lot of perlite but was wondering where I should start my ppm I'm using dyna gro gro and pro tekt? Starting from rooted clone


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## hellraizer30 (May 11, 2012)

Im not to into dg yet! Played with it alittle bit. I use this as a rule of thumb, 

cloning 150/200 ppm. Non r/o water
rooted clone 400 ppm
one week after running at 400ppm move to 600ppm
last week of veg move to 800ppm

Flush all plants then move to bloom
start to finish 1150/1200


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## sdgrower (May 12, 2012)

Great thread HR. Are you in the titan system?


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## hellraizer30 (May 12, 2012)

No still running a cap system but plan on making a switch soon.


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## dickkhead (May 12, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Im not to into dg yet! Played with it alittle bit. I use this as a rule of thumb,
> 
> cloning 150/200 ppm. Non r/o water
> rooted clone 400 ppm
> ...


ok great advice so you flush it out just once around not for any given time like 24 hours? and you run 1150-1200 all the way through? u dont think pyrmiding up and down is better? and whats a good sign to flush a couple amber trichs? and how long do you flush for?


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## hellraizer30 (May 12, 2012)

As soon as i see a amber or two its time! As for a raising and lowering ppm during bloom no I keep it a level playing
feild, only change sups through bloon at different times! 

It dont hurt to do a quick flush between res changes, like cycle some water through then dump before mixing new nutes up.


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## dickkhead (May 12, 2012)

Ok and how long do you flush before harvest 7 or 14 days? And what do you ph the water to?


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## hellraizer30 (May 12, 2012)

7 days

First three days is plain water and sugar daddy and the last 4 plain water!


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## dickkhead (May 12, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> 7 days
> 
> First three days is plain water and sugar daddy and the last 4 plain water!


sweet I have some sugar daddy left over Ill be sure to use it!


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## cerberus (May 13, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> 7 days
> 
> First three days is plain water and sugar daddy and the last 4 plain water!


i'll use unsulfered molassis not sugar daddy but i think its the same shit. and then sam as you 3-4 days of just plan water, not R/O'd or anything. sometimes i'll dump at day 2 and refill if i see my ppm's climb.. my water comes out at 190 so if it goes up to 300+ i dump and refill for flush.


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## dickkhead (May 13, 2012)

cerberus said:


> i'll use unsulfered molassis not sugar daddy but i think its the same shit. and then sam as you 3-4 days of just plan water, not R/O'd or anything. sometimes i'll dump at day 2 and refill if i see my ppm's climb.. my water comes out at 190 so if it goes up to 300+ i dump and refill for flush.


Do u top feed the molasses? It doesn't mes ur pump up?


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## cerberus (May 13, 2012)

nope. I get some teaming hot water, about 5 gal and pour, and honestly i just estimate the purs but about 1/2 cup maybe more in the hot 5 gal. stir the shit out of it and dump it into my 55gal rez. ph at 6.0 and let her go. I will use a recirc pump but no air stones and i have 2 pumps that are used for the bucket system and neither of them get gooked to bad. 

BUT i am OCD about cleaning. i do full dump, rez clean and scrubs every week, i do bucket vacume and clean 2-3 grows too. so when i use the molass for 3-4 days it aint no thing, all my gear is spotless for the start of the stretch.


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## hellraizer30 (May 13, 2012)

Nice res/system managment


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## cerberus (May 13, 2012)

thanks man lol

its an extra 20 minutes to bleach and hose out the rez before i refilled so i figure what the hell. then i figure, if i'm doing this shit, i should put all the pumps i na bleach solution and let the run and rinse while i am doing that.. then i figured, those buckets and brain are kinda dirty, so i got a dry/wet vac and you can vac out the brain and the suction pulls the lines too.. then i figured.. lol i am ocd..

but that shit works sometimes yo 

and

i've seen pix of your room, i bet its a shared trait; OCD cleaning. lol


----------



## hellraizer30 (May 13, 2012)

It is lol your method is the same way i manage mine


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## dickkhead (May 13, 2012)

Good to know on the Molases! When U guys bleach out your system how much bleach do you use? 6 drops per Gal sound right?


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## cerberus (May 13, 2012)

yeah.. i use a cap full in a warm 3 gal bucket and a scrub sponge, and dip and scrub, then hose off, vacume out rinse scrub, hose off, vacume out.
for the pumps, i use the cap on the bottle..

bleach is pretty safe actually

edit:
when i say cap, i fill the cap with bleach throw it in the bucket and bamn theres my mix ratio..

no science on this shit, just rinse and go


----------



## dickkhead (May 13, 2012)

cerberus said:


> yeah.. i use a cap full in a warm 3 gal bucket and a scrub sponge, and dip and scrub, then hose off, vacume out rinse scrub, hose off, vacume out.
> for the pumps, i use the cap on the bottle..
> 
> bleach is pretty safe actually
> ...


sounds good


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## akpaco (May 21, 2012)

HR, do you have any recommendations for staking in hydroton? Doesn't seem like much sticks in there that good. Thanks


----------



## Warlock1369 (May 21, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR, do you have any recommendations for staking in hydroton? Doesn't seem like much sticks in there that good. Thanks


When I have to stake them I found it's easyer to use the stakes upside down and get the point threw the netting. Then tye it to the stock of the plant. That will give you 2 points of solid contact.


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## hellraizer30 (May 21, 2012)

When i used hydrotron i just pushed the stake in as best i could and tyed the stalks, took a bunch per plant but it worked


----------



## akpaco (May 21, 2012)

Thanks for the input!!


----------



## hellraizer30 (May 21, 2012)

akpaco said:


> Thanks for the input!!


Hows wverything else going?


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## sterner (May 22, 2012)

I was wondering if someone could give me a good educated guess on how big a res I would need for a 3x3 flood table with 25 6x6 square pots on it? I want to buy coolers for the res and want to make sure I get big enough ones. I plan on cloning in rockwool cubes and hydroton in the pots.


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## akpaco (May 22, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hows wverything else going?



HR, things are going real good! This way of growing to me seems far superior then dirt. I'm a few weeks out and I think it's pretty safe to say this will be my best result so far! One thing I wish I would of done different was prune them quite a bit before flower. I didn't anticipate how bushy they would get in this system. Going to be adding some overdrive this week. So no sweetener even if I only run it a couple days? Been using the aquashield and I've been happy with the results. My res stays pretty clean through out the week. I'll have some more questions for you when I get closer as far as a schedule for flushing. Thanks!


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## hellraizer30 (May 22, 2012)

I think its just best to skip the sweetener just to be safe


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## hellraizer30 (May 22, 2012)

sterner said:


> I was wondering if someone could give me a good educated guess on how big a res I would need for a 3x3 flood table with 25 6x6 square pots on it? I want to buy coolers for the res and want to make sure I get big enough ones. I plan on cloning in rockwool cubes and hydroton in the pots.


30 gal mininium and ideal is 50gal


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## akpaco (May 22, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I think its just best to skip the sweetener just to be safe



Got it! Thanks!!


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## hellraizer30 (May 22, 2012)

Hey paco keep the overdrive to 1/4 strength been having some issues with it burning stuff! Not sure if they
changed the formula or what.


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## Warlock1369 (May 22, 2012)

I normally make my own sweet. 1 cup bakers surgar boiled in a pot of water. Let it cool down. Add 2 cup real cranberry juice. Heat up and mix. Add it to my 50 gal res 1 week befor flush. Sweets make the system a mess. But stimulate any microbials around the roots. And I had problems with overdrive as well. Just deside to change. Went to cha ching.


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## hellraizer30 (May 22, 2012)

Hows the chi ching working out for you warlock?


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## Warlock1369 (May 22, 2012)

It's working good. I found it's better to use the full line. Open sesame the fist 2 weeks. Beasty bloom for next 2. Then cha ching till flush. Haven't had a burn problem from it and dosnt leave a taste when not flushed to long. I've been doing 4 day flushes and it's working fine so far.


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## hellraizer30 (May 22, 2012)

The overdrive is causing the leaves to canoe and burning tips pretty good! Kinda thinking its stunting growth to


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## Warlock1369 (May 22, 2012)

That's what happend to me to. Also seemed like the plants didn't take it up as much as everything eles and as my water went down my ppm went up. But that wouldn't happen when I didn't use it.


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## hellraizer30 (May 22, 2012)

Yep im removing OD from my mix to many similiar issues


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## Metasynth (May 22, 2012)

Phew...that was quite a read, all 41 pages so far...Some good info here.

I was thinking of using coolers too, for my 2 x 3 table, and I've pretty much narrowed it down to this 25 gallon one...Has a nice access hatch on the lid so I can stast it under my tsable and not worry about having to leave room for the entire lid to open. 55 bucks though, I feel like I could insulate a rubbermaid for about half that.....

http://www.walmart.com/ip/14550422?adid=22222222227000477961&wmlspartner=wlpa&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=13688556910&wl4=&wl5=pla


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## hellraizer30 (May 22, 2012)

Metasynth said:


> Phew...that was quite a read, all 41 pages so far...Some good info here.
> 
> I was thinking of using coolers too, for my 2 x 3 table, and I've pretty much narrowed it down to this 25 gallon one...Has a nice access hatch on the lid so I can stast it under my tsable and not worry about having to leave room for the entire lid to open. 55 bucks though, I feel like I could insulate a rubbermaid for about half that.....
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/14550422?adid=22222222227000477961&wmlspartner=wlpa&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=13688556910&wl4=&wl5=pla


I know alot of people use coolers, should shield alot of heat from warming your water. 3x3 with 25gal will require
adding back more often during mid to later flower. Larger volumes of water stay cooler longer to, something to think
about.


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## sterner (May 22, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> 30 gal mininium and ideal is 50gal


thanks!!!


so in theory a 37.5 gallon res will be enough to flood the table and keep the pump under water? or i was thinking of plumbing the pump up to the drain plug of the cooler. I think it would be a better choice for the simple fact it would keep the res a little cooler without the pump in it. thoughts?


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## hellraizer30 (May 22, 2012)

It will but the plants will drink up water when your not around and then there could be a issue!
just keep it topped off and your good.


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## Warlock1369 (May 22, 2012)

sterner said:


> thanks!!!
> 
> 
> so in theory a 37.5 gallon res will be enough to flood the table and keep the pump under water? or i was thinking of plumbing the pump up to the drain plug of the cooler. I think it would be a better choice for the simple fact it would keep the res a little cooler without the pump in it. thoughts?


It will help keep it cooler. But to what point? Are you going to always keep it running like a RDWC? If not most people only have the pumps kick on 15 min every 2-3 hours. So no real heat change.


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## dickkhead (May 22, 2012)

hr what do you think about sure to grow? or do you have a link for fytocell


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## hellraizer30 (May 22, 2012)

dickkhead said:


> hr what do you think about sure to grow? or do you have a link for fytocell


Still hoping to someday get a hook up for fytocell 

Sure to grow is a shit medium and i would never try it again!


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## dickkhead (May 22, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Still hoping to someday get a hook up for fytocell
> 
> Sure to grow is a shit medium and i would never try it again!


wow realy? why is that it seemed as promising as the fytocell


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## dickkhead (May 22, 2012)

what about dyna rock? what do you think is the best for FD tables


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## hellraizer30 (May 22, 2012)

I like good old growdan!


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## Warlock1369 (May 22, 2012)

Sure to grow sucks ass. It is a alge magnet. And alge feeds on the nutes. Not really harmful but taking away from my plants. Grodan is good but not my cup of tea. I like hydroton. Or clay rock. Best I found was 100L of hydroton and 50L of the rock and a grodan slap cut to fit the bottom of my buckets. But the last few times I got lazy and just did hydroton. And I do not reuse it. To much work. I rather pay the 100 bucks a grow then spend 5 days cleaning that much.


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## akpaco (May 23, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Yep im removing OD from my mix to many similiar issues


HR, so you think I should lay off the OD? Thanks


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## akpaco (May 23, 2012)

How about house and gardens shooting powder?


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## hellraizer30 (May 23, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR, so you think I should lay off the OD? Thanks


House and gardens is good stuff! And yes i think you should stay away from overdrive!
if you have not opened it just return it! Just to many issues with the new formula.


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## sterner (May 24, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> It will help keep it cooler. But to what point? Are you going to always keep it running like a RDWC? If not most people only have the pumps kick on 15 min every 2-3 hours. So no real heat change.


fair enough. i was thinking it would be the lowest point for the pump to pull the water from as well, just to make sure it doesn't run dry. i will be able to check on my plants daily or at least every other so i think a pump in the cooler will be fine then. 

2 more questions for u fellas. 
should i put a 1000w light above each 3x3 tray with 25 plants in it or will a 600w be ok? if a 600w is sufficient but i will still see more bud with a 1000w, would it be worth it or the more bud i would get wouldn't be enough to justify the additional costs?

and just a rough flood time and frequency for lights on and off. they will be in 6x6 pots, cloned in 1in rockwool cubes with hydroton in the pots. 

thanks for all the help and advice so far and the heads up on Overdrive. i was going to buy that but never mind now. 

-Sterner


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## Warlock1369 (May 24, 2012)

600 will be fine. But more light is better. But if you haven't got your balest yet look at the 600/1000 switchable ones. Use 600mh for veg and then switch to 1000 hps for flower. Best of both worlds. Save money in veg and penetrate the canopy in flower. All for just a few bucks more. And the basic rule of thumb on flooding is 3-4 even times at 15min run. But might need more if 15 min isn't long enough to fully flood the tray.


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## sterner (May 24, 2012)

thanks for the info. 

if more is better i will just go for the 1000's right away. there will be no flowering time. as soon as the clones have roots they will go right into flower i.e.- Al B. Fuct sog perpetual style. 

so if that changes anything and the 600's will be just as good as the 1000's please let me know. i would like to save as much money as i can on upfront costs. i could buy 3 600w setup's for the same price of 2 1000w. 

appreciate the help.

-Sterner


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## Nitegazer (May 25, 2012)

Hey folks,

Great threat btw. I currently run a passive hydro setup, but this thread has me considering alternatives. 

I have a question for y'all: Do you think it would make sense to utilize a CAP controller to flood a 3x3 tray? I have limited height in my flowering space, and would prefer to not have the tray sit on an 8-12" rez. I know the tray would have to be raised to the point that the highest 'flood' would be even with the top fill point of the controller.

I already have a food-grade barrel, so would not need to buy a rez. Another potential benefit is that I could keep the barrel (rez) outside the flowering area to maximize use of my space, and I could keep the nutrient temps lower.

Thanks for your insight.


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## Warlock1369 (May 25, 2012)

That is defenitly a option. All tho the brain bucket will need modified to your water levels. And you should have your table a few inches off the grownd and slightly higher on the far side for better drainage.


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## Nitegazer (May 25, 2012)

Thanks Warlock,

That was what I was thinking. The cool part is that since I have the barrel/rez, it won't cost me much more than putting together a standard flood system to incororate a CAP controller. 

I'm finishing up my new grow space now, so I won't be spending cash on my grow for a little while (spouse has been very cool about the 'investment' so far). But, I think I'd like to see if I prefer washing the clay medium to hauling/ditching Promix and Perlite.


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## Warlock1369 (May 25, 2012)

Depending on the amount of clay you need maybe not. I use 150L every few weeks and tried the clean to reuse once. Now I just fill holes in my yard with it. If you deside to get the cap bucket make sure it's the newest one. There where some problems with the old one that got fixed but they still send out the old one from time to time. R&M's wherehouse is full of them. Both styles. And the packers just grab a box. Not knowing what is what.


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## Nitegazer (May 25, 2012)

I only work a 3x3 at the moment, and would use 9 2 gal pots (~7.5 liters). That makes abut 70 liters of the clay. Hmmm, I'll have to consider this more. Thanks for the tips on the controller.


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## hellraizer30 (May 25, 2012)

Using the c box with a flood table is killer! Would eliminate table heigth issues


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## Warlock1369 (May 25, 2012)

That and it really let's you put the res anywhere you want. Even out of the room if you want. I got mine 15 feet away. But you need the right size pumps to move the water that far.


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## hellraizer30 (May 25, 2012)

Kinda a crazy idea but if you had a large enough res you could use a cap c box to flood a few tables at once.


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## Warlock1369 (May 25, 2012)

I help a guy up here set up 3 sets of 15 buckets. All off 1 55 gallon res. 3 c boxs. Set 45 min apart. Has to add water daily and nutes every 3days but only mixes 1 batch of soup a week.


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## Nitegazer (May 25, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Kinda a crazy idea but if you had a large enough res you could use a cap c box to flood a few tables at once.



The think that attracts me to tables is that I would have to worry about chilling the rez less-- not to mention greatly reduced risk of leaks.

Glad you dig the idea.


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## cerberus (May 25, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> I help a guy up here set up 3 sets of 15 buckets. All off 1 55 gallon res. 3 c boxs. Set 45 min apart. Has to add water daily and nutes every 3days but only mixes 1 batch of soup a week.


why wouldn't he just daisy 2-3 55 gallons? still one soup making and a much more stable rez..


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## Warlock1369 (May 25, 2012)

165 gallons is alot to mix. That and he wanted it in a 3x3 closet.


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## akpaco (Jun 1, 2012)

HR, I'm in the middle of doing my res change routine. So I'm flushing with h202 and my ppm's went from 150 to 210 so I just let it feed like normal with the h202. When my third feed was done ppm's were 320 so I just emptied and put ph water only and am going to let it feed the last time of the day at 10pm and see what it says. What should I do? Obviously there was some build up? Should I keep flushing till I get it down then add my nutes? Is it ok to run just water till I get that down? Any info is appreciated!

Thanks


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 1, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR, I'm in the middle of doing my res change routine. So I'm flushing with h202 and my ppm's went from 150 to 210 so I just let it feed like normal with the h202. When my third feed was done ppm's were 320 so I just emptied and put ph water only and am going to let it feed the last time of the day at 10pm and see what it says. What should I do? Obviously there was some build up? Should I keep flushing till I get it down then add my nutes? Is it ok to run just water till I get that down? Any info is appreciated!
> 
> Thanks


If you dont see the numbers go up much more in that many flood cycles i would re fill mix and let it roll! 
Just means you got very little build up! And thats great.


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## akpaco (Jun 1, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> If you dont see the numbers go up much more in that many flood cycles i would re fill mix and let it roll!
> Just means you got very little build up! And thats great.


Thanks for the quick reply bro!!


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## jojodancer10 (Jun 3, 2012)

Hello room & hello to Dr.HR.I'm in week 5 of flowering DJ short blue moonshine and the smell is out of this world. I notice the large fan leaves are yellowing.is it to.early in the game for her to be yellowing up?. I think I'm on to something they were never this strong.


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## jojodancer10 (Jun 3, 2012)

OFIG]2197418[/ATTACH] week 4 of flowering


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 3, 2012)

@jojo hey bro can you give me a run down on your system and nutes types/ levels your using? Would help.
yellowing in the 5th week is a bit soon though.


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## jojodancer10 (Jun 3, 2012)

week 5 taken today


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 3, 2012)

jojodancer10 said:


> View attachment 2197427 weekView attachment 2197427 5 taken today


Looking good m8 theres some signs from the upper leaves of maybe a nute burn or a light got to close?


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## jojodancer10 (Jun 3, 2012)

OK tds -1250 ph- 5.8 
Food a/n bloom a+b
Carboload.snow storm


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## jojodancer10 (Jun 3, 2012)

HR the smell makes my head hurts LOL OK the light is at the top of the tent. Temp are 80degrees .


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 3, 2012)

jojodancer10 said:


> OK tds -1250 ph- 5.8
> Food a/n bloom a+b
> Carboload.snow storm


Is it in a ebb & grow setup?

1250 should be fine but as water is used the tds will raise and this could be were the burn came from,
also the snow storm is strong stuff! So watch that.

So overall they look great, i wouldnt trip on the few yellow/fried leaves! You should remove them to
not confuse future yellow, makes it easyer to see if its still progressing.


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## jojodancer10 (Jun 3, 2012)

OK doc. Um and yes its an ebb&flow system under a 1000watt in a 4x4 tent
The rez was low for two days that's where the burn came from.


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## jojodancer10 (Jun 5, 2012)

I tried that add back and I don't think its working I think that's why they are looking the way they are


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## akpaco (Jun 6, 2012)

HR, Is it ok to run h2o2 with final phase to flush? Thanks


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 7, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR, Is it ok to run h2o2 with final phase to flush? Thanks


Yep its safe


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## akpaco (Jun 7, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Yep its safe


Thanks bro!!


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 7, 2012)

akpaco said:


> Thanks bro!!


No problem paco sorry i havnt been around its fishing season


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## ScoobyDoobyDoo (Jun 7, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> No problem paco sorry i havnt been around its fishing season



I love FISHING!!! what are you out there catching hellraizer? bass, trout?


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## Warlock1369 (Jun 7, 2012)

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:


> I love FISHING!!! what are you out there catching hellraizer? bass, trout?


A buzz is alway my best catch. Lol


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jun 9, 2012)

Catfish are breeding right now.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 9, 2012)

I like salmon and trophy rainbow fishing


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## akpaco (Jun 13, 2012)

HR, finished my first grow in that system! Not sure what the final result is yet. But I'll be transplanting 4" growdan blocks into my hydroton. How many times should I water now that im using the growdan blocks? I was watering 4 times a day at 12/12 using hydroton but I know the blocks hold some water. Thanks. Fished up north Monday night and Tuesday morning. Weather sucked! Have never seen so many small fish in my life! Hope it gets better!

What would you suggest for lights on:

24hrs
18/6
12/12

I think I'll leave them on 24hrs for the first week then go to 18/6.


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## dickkhead (Jun 13, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR, finished my first grow in that system! Not sure what the final result is yet. But I'll be transplanting 4" growdan blacks into my hydroton. How many times should I water now using the growdan blocks? I was up to 4 times a day but I know the blocks hold some water. Thanks. Fished up north Monday night and Tuesday moring. Weather sucked! Have never seen so many small fish in my life! Hope it gets better!
> 
> What would you suggest for lights on:
> 
> ...


 I use to think 24 was best but I just read a few post on here that it increases your male poplulation and 18/6 is best, also if you have seedling keep things a lil cooler according to jorge to much heat will also increase males
if you have female clones then ignore what i just said


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 14, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR, finished my first grow in that system! Not sure what the final result is yet. But I'll be transplanting 4" growdan blocks into my hydroton. How many times should I water now that im using the growdan blocks? I was watering 4 times a day at 12/12 using hydroton but I know the blocks hold some water. Thanks. Fished up north Monday night and Tuesday morning. Weather sucked! Have never seen so many small fish in my life! Hope it gets better!
> 
> What would you suggest for lights on:
> 
> ...


I like 18/6 for veg, and flood the same a 4in block doesnt hold that much x 4 floods in a 18 or 24 hr 

Dude in the last week i have got 30 kings and none are keepers all under 15pounds  from up north,
and nt south and taged 2 good ones. Its the comercail fucks killing it for us


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## matatan (Jun 16, 2012)

hey hey! i remember (i believe this thread or maybe one that was deleted awhile back) where someone discussed flood n drain 'best' with NO medium, using a styrofoam board(?) as a top and cut holes for net pots and have roots hang... or something like that..
i have a some questions regarding this method because i want to run a sog using clones from an areocloner and it seems that this method would be ideal because i cant get roots into a rockwool cube from a aerocloner.
i thought about using 6-8in pots w coco but everyone i ask or mention it to says its a bad idea.. lol
your thoughts?


----------



## akpaco (Jun 16, 2012)

HR, I planted my clones and I'm watering 4 times in 18hrs. They were vegged for a while so they are pretty good size. I noticed today that I'm getting some leaf claw on some of them. Should I cut my watering down to 3 times? Thanks! Might hit the landing on Monday.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 16, 2012)

Hey akpaco the claw isnt from the floods its from your nutes being a bit to high! 
Might want to lower it a bit.

Im gunna be there on monday to, was on fire yesterday


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jun 16, 2012)

matatan said:


> hey hey! i remember (i believe this thread or maybe one that was deleted awhile back) where someone discussed flood n drain 'best' with NO medium, using a styrofoam board(?) as a top and cut holes for net pots and have roots hang... or something like that..
> i have a some questions regarding this method because i want to run a sog using clones from an areocloner and it seems that this method would be ideal because i cant get roots into a rockwool cube from a aerocloner.
> i thought about using 6-8in pots w coco but everyone i ask or mention it to says its a bad idea.. lol
> your thoughts?


I have seen this done it works well, i think its called floataplonics or somthing. Tranfering from aero to this would be easy peasy!
just keep lots of air in the water suporting the floam thats floating.


----------



## akpaco (Jun 16, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey akpaco the claw isnt from the floods its from your nutes being a bit to high!
> Might want to lower it a bit.
> 
> Im gunna be there on monday to, was on fire yesterday



Ok. I'll back it down.. I have a lowe Jon boat with a Honda jet. I'll be slaying those dinks!!!


----------



## matatan (Jun 16, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I have seen this done it works well, i think its called floataplonics or somthing. Tranfering from aero to this would be easy peasy!
> just keep lots of air in the water suporting the floam thats floating.


with airstones? so its like a dwc while the table is flooded and then its not when the water drains??


----------



## Metasynth (Jun 16, 2012)

matatan said:


> with airstones? so its like a dwc while the table is flooded and then its not when the water drains??


I know someone who runs flood tables with lids, then has holes cut in the lids. It's what you first described, he floods a few times a day, and the roots just dangle. The only way he can pull this off is he's using very small net pots, and just throwing rooted clones in them with no veg time. He's using the smallest netties he can find, aand just shoving the staarter plugs in them once the clones root. You'd need a ridiculous amount of clones for his system though.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 17, 2012)

Float a ponics is a tub with water and a peace of blue board or closed cell foam with holes cut in it, 
the clone either in a neopream puck or a starter cube is put in the hole with the bottome of the clones
stem in the water with roots submerged. Theres no flooding or draining just currentless water, adding
air will stop the water from going stagnet and helping with keeping bactiria at bay.


----------



## Sir.Ganga (Jun 17, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Yah fumble im not going anywhere! Taking a forced brake due to a loss of everything i had cause of stupid power going
> Out! And killing my girls  saved the orange cush clone thank god!


Ya hellraizer I had the same issue now 2 times where I have lost 20K a pop over automation. I run a DIY flow trays now and water manually, I fill with a pump then drain back to res. Since I took all the automation I have been more in tune with my system. Yes its a little more work but I feel it is also paying dividends with knowledge and quality.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jun 17, 2012)

Sir.Ganga said:


> Ya hellraizer I had the same issue now 2 times where I have lost 20K a pop over automation. I run a DIY flow trays now and water manually, I fill with a pump then drain back to res. Since I took all the automation I have been more in tune with my system. Yes its a little more work but I feel it is also paying dividends with knowledge and quality.


Dam bro sucks you had to feel that same sorta pain  but at least your in a better place with stability! And reliability.
although nature is a beast that cant be controlled.


----------



## matatan (Jun 19, 2012)

thanx for the replies fellas. 
im going the potted coco route, 16-20 per 3x3table, wish me luck i think i will need it lol


----------



## akpaco (Jun 22, 2012)

HR, are you adjusting your ph with the ph perfect? My ph after adding my nutes only drops to about 6.3. Someone said if I was using the recommended amount it would adjust to around 5.7. But that seems pretty hot to me? Not sure what I should do? Add ph down or use full strengnth? What do you think? Thanks


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jun 23, 2012)

@akpaco

I add down to get 5.7 then let it do its thing


----------



## fumble (Jun 23, 2012)

Hello HR...just lurking and thought I'd say high.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 23, 2012)

fumble said:


> Hello HR...just lurking and thought I'd say high.


Hey fumble long time no see in one of my threads  how life treating you these days


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## fumble (Jun 23, 2012)

starting to look better


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 24, 2012)

fumble said:


> starting to look better


Thats good to hear fumble! Il burn some ato for yah


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## raiderman (Jun 26, 2012)

do you have a demo to look at and yure plants??


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 26, 2012)

raiderman said:


> do you have a demo to look at and yure plants??


I used to raiderman but i closed it and cut way back to just a few for myself! Was just geting tired of the everyday
grind. I did post up some pics il dig up a link for yah.

https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/398053-seed-collectors-thread-769.html

These gage green testers 
mendo montage f2s


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## raiderman (Jun 27, 2012)

i will say the first few yrs were a blast,then its a job ,,jus goin with the grind now it seems.lol.not as impressed with strains like before, tho i gro big plants the fun turned to work /jus a job after13 yrs,ho hum.


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## raiderman (Jul 3, 2012)

tho i have 100,000 watts outdoor access and 1 acre at my disposal it does still have a rip to it.see ya HR.


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## fumble (Jul 5, 2012)

Hello HR. That is one hell of a seed order you have there. Way jealous here


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 5, 2012)

fumble said:


> Hello HR. That is one hell of a seed order you have there. Way jealous here


Saving for the end of the world lol


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## srfjay (Jul 20, 2012)

Quick question for you guys, I am coming from dirt and switching to a ebb and flow. The question I have is I purchased a air pump to aerate my 55gl res and just want to know if you guys run it 24/7 or on a timer? And if on a timer what type of schedrule you running? Thanks for any help.


----------



## akpaco (Jul 20, 2012)

srfjay said:


> Quick question for you guys, I am coming from dirt and switching to a ebb and flow. The question I have is I purchased a air pump to aerate my 55gl res and just want to know if you guys run it 24/7 or on a timer? And if on a timer what type of schedrule you running? Thanks for any help.



I run it 24/7. Don't believe there's a reason not to constantly be aerating your res.


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## mrecio87 (Jul 20, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Saving for the end of the world lol


Everyone should have a seed stash for this reason.



akpaco said:


> I run it 24/7. Don't believe there's a reason not to constantly be aerating your res.


yes run your airstone 24/7, you can also look into flooming which can utilize timers.


----------



## Malevolence (Jul 21, 2012)

Valron said:


> Question on ph management...
> 
> I have recently read that you can use pure 33% sulfuric acid from auto zone to lower ph.
> 
> ...


I have heard of people doing this, but I believe you should use food grade sulfuric acid, which battery acid (while it will lower your ph) is not. All I will say is I wouldn't want to smoke your battery acid weed. Also, it is not safe, you need to take some precautions when handling sulfuric acid. Not being able to read your PPM meter is a pretty shitty side effect.

I believe I have read that sulfuric acid (food grade or not) can make certain nutrients unavailable to your plants by turning them into solids or something, but I don't feel like digging around to find a source for that. Bottom line, I wouldn't use auto zone sulfuric acid in my setup.


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## GreenThumbSucker (Jul 21, 2012)

Malevolence said:


> I have heard of people doing this, *but I believe you should use food grade sulfuric acid, which battery acid (while it will lower your ph) is not*. All I will say is I wouldn't want to smoke your battery acid weed. Also, it is not safe, you need to take some precautions when handling sulfuric acid. Not being able to read your PPM meter is a pretty shitty side effect.
> 
> I believe I have read that sulfuric acid (food grade or not) can make certain nutrients unavailable to your plants by turning them into solids or something, but I don't feel like digging around to find a source for that. Bottom line, I wouldn't use auto zone sulfuric acid in my setup.


There is no such thing as 'Food grade' sulfuric acid. Battery acid is pure sulfuric acid mixed with RO water, and is diluted down to 30%. It is used by commercial hydroponic greenhouses for food production.

Sulfuric acid does not cause nutrient lockout. Hydroponic fertilizers contain huge amounts of sulfur already. It is irrelevant where you buy the battery acid, be it auto zone or anywhere else.


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## Malevolence (Jul 21, 2012)

fair enough, I won't be using it.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 22, 2012)

When it comes to ph down i like AN line of down! And if i need to ph up i use tap water for a nat effect.


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## GreenThumbSucker (Jul 23, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> When it comes to ph down i like AN line of down! And if i need to ph up i use tap water for a nat effect.


I use potassium hydroxide for PH up. It is a hydroponic fertilizer and a very good blossom booster. You can get it here very cheaply: http://www.essentialdepot.com/servlet/the-Potassium-dsh-Hydroxide-dsh-KOH-dsh-Potash/Categories
1 tablespoon makes a gallon, a little less for smaller reservoirs, a little more for larger reservoirs. I get the 4 lbs for $11 size. That's an easy 4 or 5 year supply.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jul 23, 2012)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> I use potassium hydroxide for PH up. It is a hydroponic fertilizer and a very good blossom booster. You can get it here very cheaply: http://www.essentialdepot.com/servlet/the-Potassium-dsh-Hydroxide-dsh-KOH-dsh-Potash/Categories
> 1 tablespoon makes a gallon, a little less for smaller reservoirs, a little more for larger reservoirs. I get the 4 lbs for $11 size. That's an easy 4 or 5 year supply.


Interesting.......


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 23, 2012)

akpaco said:


> I run it 24/7. Don't believe there's a reason not to constantly be aerating your res.


Thats what im thinking to


----------



## Penyajo (Jul 26, 2012)

Well I can now say I have read all 50 pages of this thread. And wow alot of great info in here. I my self am going to be building a 2x4 flood and drain table and am going to running the sog method. The last few weeks I have really been stuck in between if I want to use 6" square flood and drain pots while using hydroton as the medium. Or if I should start with small RW plug, root the clone in that and then put that into a 6" RW cube. I have been doing DWC for about 1 year and a half. I have always loved it. But this last grow I made some DIY 5gal cooler Rez's. And to do a rez change you have to unscrew the top. It makes it very hard to maneuver. So I am looking for a system with a control Rez and some thing I can make practically automated. That's for you help in advance. STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jul 26, 2012)

Penyajo said:


> Well I can now say I have read all 50 pages of this thread. And wow alot of great info in here. I my self am going to be building a 2x4 flood and drain table and am going to running the sog method. The last few weeks I have really been stuck in between if I want to use 6" square flood and drain pots while using hydroton as the medium. Or if I should start with small RW plug, root the clone in that and then put that into a 6" RW cube. I have been doing DWC for about 1 year and a half. I have always loved it. But this last grow I made some DIY 5gal cooler Rez's. And to do a rez change you have to unscrew the top. It makes it very hard to maneuver. So I am looking for a system with a control Rez and some thing I can make practically automated. That's for you help in advance. STAY HIGH!!!


The growth is about the same between the too. Pros and cons to hydrotron are it needs to be flooded more, this is good 
because it bring new water and nutes to the plant then when the water is draining out new air moves in to the roots. Theres
no waistes of medium. Cons you will need to flood your table with more water due to hydrotron not having the ability to 
wick. Cleaning is a pain in the ass! Plants take longer to recover after transplant.

R/w will wick so less water is needed, allowing for a much smaller res. as for what type of bucket or block to use? 
If your soging them on a 2x4 table i would use 4x4 r/w blocks. And put a peace of poly over the top of the table
to stop algae from starting.


----------



## Penyajo (Jul 26, 2012)

First off thanks for the response. If you have the time I could use some help before I start buying materials and wasting money. Lets start with the rez. I am going to be using a 24 gallon Igloo cooler. I can add ice if needed any time. So rez temps should be fine. I am also going to be consistently brewing a Myco tea. Do you still think I should get a cover for the table while running the tea with good rez temps or do you think that will be enough to battle it off. Now lets talk about the medium a bit. Is there a reason you say use the 4x4 r/w blocks rather than using something like a 6x6 block? I was thinking the 6x6 just for a bit more room for the roots. But if you think the 4x4's are big enough for them to finish off I would rather use them. That will give a bit more space in between the blocks on the table and will let them breathe a bit more. What size pump would you recommend for a 2x4 flood table? Thanks man. STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jul 26, 2012)

Penyajo said:


> First off thanks for the response. If you have the time I could use some help before I start buying materials and wasting money. Lets start with the rez. I am going to be using a 24 gallon Igloo cooler. I can add ice if needed any time. So rez temps should be fine. I am also going to be consistently brewing a Myco tea. Do you still think I should get a cover for the table while running the tea with good rez temps or do you think that will be enough to battle it off. Now lets talk about the medium a bit. Is there a reason you say use the 4x4 r/w blocks rather than using something like a 6x6 block? I was thinking the 6x6 just for a bit more room for the roots. But if you think the 4x4's are big enough for them to finish off I would rather use them. That will give a bit more space in between the blocks on the table and will let them breathe a bit more. What size pump would you recommend for a 2x4 flood table? Thanks man. STAY HIGH!!!


Pumps, a 250 gph should be fine.
the reason im leaning to the 4x4 block is because on a 2x4 table theres not much room so im guessing your
going to sog what you will put on it, so small plants is what yor going to be growing. 6x6 block are good for 
a much larger plants and would be a waist. One thing you will need to do is trellis them for support.


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## Penyajo (Jul 27, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Pumps, a 250 gph should be fine.
> the reason im leaning to the 4x4 block is because on a 2x4 table theres not much room so im guessing your
> going to sog what you will put on it, so small plants is what yor going to be growing. 6x6 block are good for
> a much larger plants and would be a waist. One thing you will need to do is trellis them for support.


Thanks for your help. I am going to start getting supplies to start on the table. After I get the tray and every thing I will build a nice trellis for it. 
One thing that I dont see working out that well is a cover for the tray to keep down any algae growth. I really dont see how I will be able to use a cover for it with the amount of plants I will be having. I just think that I would have to many holes in the cover of the tray for it to serve much of a purpose. STAY HIGH MANE!!!


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 27, 2012)

@penya hey if your planning on loading the table up, the conopy from the plants will cover it for the most part.
i dont care to much about algae when it get bad i just pull everything off an clean it good then put them back in.


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## FaceEater (Jul 28, 2012)

Amazing thread here Hellraizer (extra props for being a cenobite fan  )!!

How do you feel about combining hydroton and grodan cubes (4")? Like filling the trays up with pebbles and just bury the cubes in it?
That was my plan anyway, but I still have time to reconsider..


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## Penyajo (Jul 28, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> @penya hey if your planning on loading the table up, the conopy from the plants will cover it for the most part.
> i dont care to much about algae when it get bad i just pull everything off an clean it good then put them back in.


Thank you sir. I will be sure to throw up a few pics when the setup is complete. STAY HIGH!!!


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## tenthirty (Jul 28, 2012)

You can buy 4" covers for the rockwool blocks.


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 28, 2012)

FaceEater said:


> Amazing thread here Hellraizer (extra props for being a cenobite fan  )!!
> 
> How do you feel about combining hydroton and grodan cubes (4")? Like filling the trays up with pebbles and just bury the cubes in it?
> That was my plan anyway, but I still have time to reconsider..


I have done just this many time with great results, just make sure to cover the growdan part with a small peace of white polly.


----------



## FaceEater (Jul 28, 2012)

Cool, so I guess I'll stay with that plan then.
How often do you think I should flood the tables with that system?
Really appreciate it dude!


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 28, 2012)

FaceEater said:


> Cool, so I guess I'll stay with that plan then.
> How often do you think I should flood the tables with that system?
> Really appreciate it dude!


With a setup as your wanting i would flood x3 for 15min during lights on, but you could go x4 to


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## FaceEater (Jul 29, 2012)

Sounds good, so the rw wouldn't suck upp to much moisture and become water logged during the dark hours? Like risking root/stem rot?


----------



## FaceEater (Jul 29, 2012)

And another thing by the way, how much space do you think each clone should have in the tray when growing sog style? The trays fit 11 of these 4" cubes if I really push the together.
Growing pure indica now do I'm not really shure if I have to veg them for a bit in the trays if im gonna get any yield out of the first run..


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 29, 2012)

If you dont veg and just go 12/12 once the clone is rooted you could jam pack them in there, but if
you veg your going to need to spread them out!


----------



## FaceEater (Jul 29, 2012)

Sweet! I guess ill do short to no veg at all This First run, just flowering some clones from each plant to pick out a mom.
Its gonna be Epic.

Thanks a lot man!


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 29, 2012)

No prblem........


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## BUdbuddysmile (Jul 30, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I would like to start off focusing on root rot and slime thats common in the ebb/grow systems!
> Root rot! Its seems to take charge in week 3 of bloom with the exsposive amounts of root filling
> The buckets, cap has x2 versoins of buckets one is a flat bottom and the other is a raised style
> With a slight angle to help draining! Does either one work not really, water still remains in the
> ...



Second run with a Grow Monster First run through veg, I was seeing some browning of the roots pretty bad. I did the same thing with the foam insulation. I havnt tested the temps in the line, but I just figured it couldn't hurt. I will have to give the pvc a shot as well. Seems like that would make for a nice set up. Also, I have an airstone running to the bottom of each bucket to keep the water from being stagnant. I feel like it has helped out and its all of about $40 to run them to 9 buckets pump and all. Good Idea?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jul 30, 2012)

BUdbuddysmile said:


> Second run with a Grow Monster&#8230; First run through veg, I was seeing some browning of the roots pretty bad. I did the same thing with the foam insulation. I havnt tested the temps in the line, but I just figured it couldn't hurt. I will have to give the pvc a shot as well. Seems like that would make for a nice set up. Also, I have an airstone running to the bottom of each bucket to keep the water from being stagnant. I feel like it has helped out and its all of about $40 to run them to 9 buckets pump and all. Good Idea?


With the monster buckets i would do just that! There seems to be alot of water that gets caught with the cap 5gal buckets
over the small ones, so yes its a good idea.


----------



## Penyajo (Aug 20, 2012)

Hey hellraiz. I finally have finished piecing together my new setup. Flood table is now in the tent and clones are on their second day of rooting. The only question I have is how deep do you recommend flooding 4x4 RW cubes? If I have it set at about an inch up the rock wool will it wick up the rest or do you recommend going higher than that. I will throw some pictures up in a little bit when I get home. Thanks for all your help man. STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 20, 2012)

Penyajo said:


> Hey hellraiz. I finally have finished piecing together my new setup. Flood table is now in the tent and clones are on their second day of rooting. The only question I have is how deep do you recommend flooding 4x4 RW cubes? If I have it set at about an inch up the rock wool will it wick up the rest or do you recommend going higher than that. I will throw some pictures up in a little bit when I get home. Thanks for all your help man. STAY HIGH!!!


R/w wicks great so no need to flood deep, this will also allow for better growth and less chances of over watering.
so a inch of water would work swell! Would love to check out some pics, and answer anymore question you might
have PEN


----------



## Penyajo (Aug 20, 2012)

Alright so here we go I will try to walk you through what I got going on. Got the 24"x44" flood table and built a nice stand for it out of 1.5"pvc. Then I decided to buy a cooler for the rez. Went a little above and beyond on the cooler size but that cant hurt lol. The pump I bought is a 280gph and seems fill the tray up pretty quickly. I have my clones rooting small 1" RW cubes and will go straight into the 4" a few days after they are showing root. For veg I am using 100w t5 and 100w of cfls which does just fine. Well just wanted to share some pics with ya. Let me know what you think. STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## Metasynth (Aug 20, 2012)

Looks sweet Pen! Is that the 120 qt coleman cooler? Niiiice. I was thinking about getting a few of those for my tables.


----------



## Penyajo (Aug 20, 2012)

Metasynth said:


> Looks sweet Pen! Is that the 120 qt coleman cooler? Niiiice. I was thinking about getting a few of those for my tables.


Yeah it is. Like I said I went a little bit over board on the rez. 30 gallons should be enough lol. Ill tell you what, it does a really good job at keeping some water cool thats for sure. STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 20, 2012)

Nice setup pen everything looks clean and a good choice on going bigger with the res.


----------



## Dabsallday (Aug 20, 2012)

Sickest setup ever... Penyajo's


----------



## Penyajo (Aug 20, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Nice setup pen everything looks clean and a good choice on going bigger with the res.


Yeah the only thing I am having troubles with is figuring out how I am going to do a rez change. I would like to clean it out on a weekly basis but that bitch is heavy.. So I am trying to figure out how to run all the old water to waste which is about 10ft from my tent. Thinking of just getting a long enough hose for the sub pump and run it across the floor. Hopefully she will be strong enough to push it the whole way. If it works out I will fill the rez just by pouring water into my overflow. Still have alot of shit I have to work out before I am perfectly happy but I am definitely getting really close. STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## Warlock1369 (Aug 20, 2012)

Just get the cheapest pump you can. I use a 396 to drains all 3 of my res's it takes some time but if you stage it between floods it's all good.


----------



## matatan (Aug 20, 2012)

Penyajo said:


> Yeah it is. Like I said I went a little bit over board on the rez. 30 gallons should be enough lol. Ill tell you what, it does a really good job at keeping some water cool thats for sure. STAY HIGH!!!


was it tough to drill holes on that lid? what did you a holesaw for tile?


----------



## Penyajo (Aug 21, 2012)

matatan said:


> was it tough to drill holes on that lid? what did you a holesaw for tile?


No. The drilling was actually very easy. I used 1.25" holesaw bit. Not a tile blade, just for wood. Cut thru it like butter. STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## Penyajo (Aug 21, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> Just get the cheapest pump you can. I use a 396 to drains all 3 of my res's it takes some time but if you stage it between floods it's all good.


I have a new idea that struck me this morning. What if I took the tubing coming out of my pum and got a tee adapter to split the line 2 ways. Then I can add a valve on each tube. When the table is in regular use just leave the table tube valve open. When I want to drain close the table valve and open up the pump to waste valve which will already have a 15' tube to go to my drain. Bottom line is I think I can make a Rez change as easy as turning a valve and plugging in my pump! STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## Penyajo (Aug 21, 2012)

Another question. How often do you flood and drain guys actually pull out the Rez and give it a good scrubbing? STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## Warlock1369 (Aug 21, 2012)

I did the valve thing. Worked good till I forget to change valves and dump my new water. Or not open the flood valve. I change and clean tank every 2 weeks.


----------



## Penyajo (Aug 21, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> I did the valve thing. Worked good till I forget to change valves and dump my new water. Or not open the flood valve. I change and clean tank every 2 weeks.


Lol yeah I was thinking that I would do something stupid like that. I think I will tie a string to it and tie it to the door of my tent that way when I go to shut it up I wont be able to till I switch the valve and untie the string or something like that. Are you running any kind of myco tea or any thing on your tables? STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 21, 2012)

I run aquashield at 7 ml per gal and piriana at 2ml per gal 
every three days or if theres no issues once a week


----------



## fumble (Aug 21, 2012)

Thought I'd quit lurking you and say high


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 21, 2012)

fumble said:


> Thought I'd quit lurking you and say high


Haha nice! What you doing these days fumble


----------



## Warlock1369 (Aug 21, 2012)

Penyajo said:


> Lol yeah I was thinking that I would do something stupid like that. I think I will tie a string to it and tie it to the door of my tent that way when I go to shut it up I wont be able to till I switch the valve and untie the string or something like that. Are you running any kind of myco tea or any thing on your tables? STAY HIGH!!!


I use hygrozyme. But use thinking of useing Xtreme Gardenings tea every other tank change. That is some good stuff. Just trying to work it out on time. I like to change tanks on sat. So Sunday I jars see if everything is ok befor I leave for work. But I don't get home till Friday nights. So 24 hour brew isn't realy a option yet.


----------



## fumble (Aug 22, 2012)

Baking lol...how about you?



hellraizer30 said:


> Haha nice! What you doing these days fumble


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 22, 2012)

Wishing i could sample some of what your baking


----------



## Mithrandir420 (Aug 22, 2012)

Mah new shades!

View attachment 2304899
Cheaper than the Method 7's. Not quite as perfect as the Method 7s, but still dang good. Well worth the 20 dollar price.


----------



## Warlock1369 (Aug 22, 2012)

fumble said:


> Baking lol...how about you?


Next week kids go home. I will be making my butter. Takes all week. And making some dry ice hash. Then baking is on and the DI hash gose in hard candies and icings.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 22, 2012)

Mithrandir420 said:


> Mah new shades!
> 
> View attachment 2304899
> Cheaper than the Method 7's. Not quite as perfect as the Method 7s, but still dang good. Well worth the 20 dollar price.


200$ or 20$ lol thats a no brainer


----------



## fumble (Aug 22, 2012)

If only you were in my area...mmmmagic bars galore!



hellraizer30 said:


> Wishing i could sample some of what your baking


----------



## fumble (Aug 22, 2012)

Going to be doing some DI hash myself soon. It will make my baking so much easier - and better! I turn that kief into black liquid gold.



Warlock1369 said:


> Next week kids go home. I will be making my butter. Takes all week. And making some dry ice hash. Then baking is on and the DI hash gose in hard candies and icings.


----------



## Warlock1369 (Aug 22, 2012)

What method do you use for the gold?


----------



## fumble (Aug 22, 2012)

I follow BadKittySmiles directions in the cooking forum. Top sticky. A note on the lecithin I just found out today...don't use the liquid. Which I have been using. So my already potent as eff edibles are about to get even better and longer lasting.


----------



## Warlock1369 (Aug 22, 2012)

Gonna have to check that out.


----------



## fumble (Aug 22, 2012)

You should. Very informative. I learned a lot there. Lecithin is the key to the magic kingdom


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 22, 2012)

fumble said:


> You should. Very informative. I learned a lot there. Lecithin is the key to the magic kingdom


Dam im so sheltered from the good stuff! Lol


----------



## Warlock1369 (Aug 22, 2012)

Great stuff. To bad some of it looks too good. I still have a 3 year old in the house. He already took a cookie cool rack. Don't need him wanting to much. Yes I make vergin of all I make but still. Think I'm gonna make the glowing drink.


----------



## Warlock1369 (Aug 22, 2012)

Oops. Sorry started to get way off topic.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 23, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> Oops. Sorry started to get way off topic.


Lol its cool man


----------



## ELWOOD73 (Aug 23, 2012)

Hey HR got a question for you I'm running a DIY undercurrent with 6.5g sites and 2" pipes and the problems with rot and slime has been a a pain and I have been running the Tea its like the Tea runs out of steam so after this run if I have any plants that live its been an on going battle that I'm not enjoying anyways I want to go to an Ebb & Grow and I was wondering your opinion on how many sites to run in my space I have 18' x 10.5' and use ruffly 14 of the 18 feet and I'm using 6k worth of triple X 8" hoods ? I have done Ebb tables with lil to no problems this undercurrent is killing me


----------



## Warlock1369 (Aug 23, 2012)

You can easily run 18 sites. I have a 14x7 room. Use about 11x6 and plenty of room for my 15 sites and brain bucket.


----------



## ELWOOD73 (Aug 23, 2012)

Hey Warlock do you think I could squeeze in 24 ? thanks again for your time I see I need to look thru your grow too man I got lots of reading to do lol


----------



## Warlock1369 (Aug 23, 2012)

Yes 24 is there too you just don't want them that bushy. I grow master kush and it's a short fat fucking plant.


----------



## ELWOOD73 (Aug 23, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> Yes 24 is there too you just don't want them that bushy. I grow master kush and it's a short fat fucking plant.


Cool thanks alot still not sure what I am doing quite yet I'm in flower and have lost 4 ladies already so I'm guessing we will go from there I'm hoping thats the last of the loss been running tea since Sunday so I'm in the mist of Root rot battle  So we shall see if I will prevail if I lose it will be crappy to lose a whole grow !


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 23, 2012)

Hey elwood sorry for late reply! Looks like warlock got you! Sorry to here sbout the root rot! 
How are you brewing your tea?


----------



## Warlock1369 (Aug 23, 2012)

I had a mom in dwc. She got huge fast. A week before I cloned something happened snd she was history. But when I removed her from the room I never cleaned the bucket. Left her in the water. 3 weeks later she was still alive but not any better. So I pulled her.


----------



## ELWOOD73 (Aug 23, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey elwood sorry for late reply! Looks like warlock got you! Sorry to here sbout the root rot!
> How are you brewing your tea?


Upon original dosage I did as follows I did one cup per gallon and I have a total of 100 gallons in the system then I saw your supposed to do additional cup per gallon every 3 days and I started adding tea last Sunday. I brew it the same as Heis and you but I use Ancient Forest and a other brand of EWC and mix them both in the sock. I use Aquasheild and ZHO on the first initial batch and add Great White the next day and use HI-Brix for molasses on the first day . I run a fountain pump with a bell siphon and an additional air pump with two air stones too with one stuffed in the sock . I hope this sounds fine IMO it looks good to me and all so please tell me if you see errors I can up load a pic later tonight of the roots on the next victim when I get home cuz she wasn't looking too good and plus I need to get your opinion on the leaf growth around the bud sites don't look right either


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 23, 2012)

Umm i think the dosage is rong, 
1gal of tea for every 10gal of water

And re add 1 cup per 10gals every three days


This being said i no longer brew tea i use
aquashield at 7ml per gal 
piriana at 2ml per gal 
to start with and re add every three days or once a week if the water or root look off.


----------



## ELWOOD73 (Aug 24, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Umm i think the dosage is rong,
> 1gal of tea for every 10gal of water
> 
> And re add 1 cup per 10gals every three days
> ...


I just went and looked at the thread from Heis and this is what he has down...
*Initially, add about 1 cup to your res for every gallon of water, and then add 1 cup total every 3 days after. If you can, pour a little over the base of the stalk to inoculate the root crown. Your water might get a little cloudy but your roots will stay white and stimulated. When you use tea and practice proper res maintenance you can feel confident your roots will be healthy. By multiplying the microbes this way your products should last a great deal longer. Once you have eradicated slime and simply want protection from future outbreaks, adjust the tea dosage to 1 cup per 10 gallons about once per week.
IDK I just follow direction lol! 
So hows that new way your doing working out ? I need to do something and will try just about anything and out of curiosity how high should I run the water in my undercurrent ? I was told and always understood in any DWC set up to have the water just below the net pot just want to make sure I atleast got that right lol
*


----------



## ELWOOD73 (Aug 24, 2012)

HR as always I appreciate your incite thanks again for your input ! Do you think I should stay the course with tea do to having my roots die off they are dying one at a time I was in there for over three hours cleaning anything I saw on the roots with 29% H2O2 with a clean trash can as my sink and a pump and hose spray off the roots as nice as I could and I put in 10 gallons of tea and try to ride it out or try your new regiment ? Also is this something you would do when you notice slime or rot or is this something that is done before you have any problems thanks again ! Btw another one bit the dust I saw it looking not so swell last night so then this morning I pulled it so I'm down to lucky 13... and counting


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## hellraizer30 (Aug 24, 2012)

I think your using to much tea!
for 55gal of water you initially add 1 gal of tea to 10gals of water and no more than 3gal added for 55gal total,
so if your running 100 gal res you should add 6gals of tea initially.......!


Then every three days you should add 1 cup for ever 10gal of res water and no more than 3cups added for 55gal total,
and with 100gals you should be adding 6cups every three days total.

I think to much tea could be a issue.

Heres what a was brewing


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 24, 2012)

*

#1 x2 scoops of ancient forest in a sock 
#2 1 tsp of myco madness or great white
#3 20ml aquashield
#4 x3 to 4 tsb hibrix mollasis
#5 5gal bucket
#6 good air stones and pump

Brew for 24hr then add
#7 zho 1tsp​
​

*


----------



## ELWOOD73 (Aug 30, 2012)

thanks again HR  Btw it looks like I'm winning so far


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 30, 2012)

Good deal elwood


----------



## Penyajo (Aug 31, 2012)

What up guys. So I got a batch of 12 clones. It has been 14 days since cut and still no root. Not really hear to ask any questions. Just here to say what up and hope all is well with every one. STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Aug 31, 2012)

Penyajo said:


> What up guys. So I got a batch of 12 clones. It has been 14 days since cut and still no root. Not really hear to ask any questions. Just here to say what up and hope all is well with every one. STAY HIGH!!!


You should be geting roots soon, unless theres a issue. You might want to give it a little tug if your in rooters cubes,
if its a cloner then 14 = a issue


----------



## Warlock1369 (Aug 31, 2012)

If the clones still look alive your still good. I've had some take 3 weeks.


----------



## Penyajo (Aug 31, 2012)

I take that back. I posted that while I was still at work. Got home and 6 outta the 12 got some roots going on. All of then are still looking good so I'm not really worried. STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## Warlock1369 (Aug 31, 2012)

Good to hear.


----------



## Bwpz (Sep 2, 2012)

I have a question that's been bothering me for some time now.

What's the best medium for flood and drain? Some people say straight rockwool cubes, but my plant had tons of roots coming out of the bottom of the cube 2 weeks into veg, and I want to put those roots in a nice environment so they can strive instead of getting air pruned.

Another dilemma is that I'm getting clones that are already rooted, with a root small ball. I can't put that in Rockwool. I've been thinking about getting 7x7x9 square pots filled with hydroton and converting my ebb&flow to a recycling top feed. Would a 7x7x9 pots (1.6 gallons) house a 3ft plant? Would 8.5x8.5x10 be better?

Thanks =)


----------



## georgeforeman (Sep 2, 2012)

HR, love your simple aquashield and piranha technique. Is great white a good substitute for piranha? Do you use hydrozyme is the rez?


----------



## Warlock1369 (Sep 5, 2012)

Hay HR I've use tea for my soil grows haven't used it in the ebb yet. Sence I made 3 gallons for 2 plants was thinking of useing it in the new grow. Switching on and off with hygrozyme. I change the tank every 2 weeks and now trying a 80/20 mix. Hydroton and coco. Last 2 weeks was hygrozyme thinking of using the tea in 2 days with the next res change. It says 1 cup per gallon. Was thinking only 1/2 cup. What have you found to work? And it's the xtream gardening tea. And sence this media was high in mycos I planed on feeding them with the tea. Any insight?


----------



## fumble (Sep 5, 2012)

I lurk you HR


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 10, 2012)

Bwpz said:


> I have a question that's been bothering me for some time now.
> 
> What's the best medium for flood and drain? Some people say straight rockwool cubes, but my plant had tons of roots coming out of the bottom of the cube 2 weeks into veg, and I want to put those roots in a nice environment so they can strive instead of getting air pruned.
> 
> ...



You can transplant into r/w


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 10, 2012)

georgeforeman said:


> HR, love your simple aquashield and piranha technique. Is great white a good substitute for piranha? Do you use hydrozyme is the rez?



Great white would sup aquashield but piranha is stand alone rock solid nothing i have found works better


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 10, 2012)

Sorry friends just got back from hunting and will catch up with all you asap


----------



## Warlock1369 (Sep 10, 2012)

Well did you get anything? And I'm changing tanks now so if you can tell me if it was a good idea or I should flush the system and start over. Thanks man.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 11, 2012)

Im not sure how the tea will react with the zyme and the xstream brand im not to up to speed
on either. 

We got 8 total carabou i got three myself 

I run the tea from start to finish


----------



## Warlock1369 (Sep 11, 2012)

Nice! Wanted to get some elk this year but didn't get the chance to go.


----------



## akpaco (Sep 12, 2012)

HR,

How's it going? Thinking about incorporating a small flood and drain table to veg a buddies and my plants in before transplanting them into our buckets. We've been using 4" grodan blocks then transplanting them into our buckets but would like a little more veg time. One of my questions is when you use a table do you fill it with hydroton? Because I'll want to be able to transplant them to my buckets that I use hydroton in already. I'm sure this is covered on here somewhere but every grow situation is different. What do you think is the best way to veg for transplant into buckets using hydoton? I basically want to do what most people do and cut down on my veg time. Just finished my most successful grow using my ebb & gro system with 16 pots! Any info is always appreciated! Thanks!


----------



## Warlock1369 (Sep 12, 2012)

Don't fill with hydroton. When you pull them out you will ripoff roots. This will send them into shock. But everything eles will help you speed up time.


----------



## akpaco (Sep 12, 2012)

Thanks Warlock! So do you just sit them in the table by themselves? Once the roots start exposing themselves in the growdan don't they need to be in something? 

Thanks!


----------



## Warlock1369 (Sep 12, 2012)

For a few weeks your roots will be fine. If your gonna veg along time might wanna cover the table with panda plastic and cut X's where you want your cubes. This will keep roots out of the light.


----------



## Trap Bunkin (Sep 12, 2012)

I run F&D now but when I ran buckets, I DIY the lids with baskets. This allowed me to move the net pots from the veg station directly in a hole in the bucket lid. 

I would veg 6" net pots in 35 gal totes for 3 weeks then move directly into the buckets. I would yield about 10oz a plant using the lucas formula


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 12, 2012)

akpaco said:


> Thanks Warlock! So do you just sit them in the table by themselves? Once the roots start exposing themselves in the growdan don't they need to be in something?
> 
> Thanks!


I veg in 4x4 blocks for 3weeks before going to the ebb buckets, its ok if the roots spread out from the block, just make sure
you flood often enough to keep them wet! And all will be good.


----------



## tenthirty (Sep 13, 2012)

hellraizer,

Do you take PH and EC measurements from the RW blocks? If so how?

I have been taking some measurements with some interesting (alarming) results.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 13, 2012)

I soak them for 24hr in 5.5 pm before use then i just let it ride, i use an ph perfect so ph managment
is not needed


----------



## Penyajo (Sep 13, 2012)

Hey guys. So I have my flood table all set up and ready for round one. But I have a few questions that I can't seem to figure out on my own. I took the 4x4 RW cubes and soaked them in 5.5ph water for 24 hours. After I took them out of the soak I tried to shake out most of the excess water with out squeezing the block. Now my question is, after you soak the block how long will it take to dry out enough that I can start flooding my tray on a schedule? Right now I have 12 girls all in 4x4 and only three have needed any water since the initial transplant. All of them are healthy and growing well. I am trying to get this on point because I am going out of town for a few days on Saturday and I don't want to come back to a dead room. Thanks for you help as always guys. STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## akpaco (Sep 13, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I veg in 4x4 blocks for 3weeks before going to the ebb buckets, its ok if the roots spread out from the block, just make sure
> you flood often enough to keep them wet! And all will be good.


Thanks for all the responses! HR, so its ok for the light to hit those roots that come out the blocks? And what is your watering schedule? And if you keep the blocks wet most of the time you dont have to worry about any rot _I__'ve read some people cover there table with panda plastic? Thanks bro!! _


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 13, 2012)

Penyajo said:


> Hey guys. So I have my flood table all set up and ready for round one. But I have a few questions that I can't seem to figure out on my own. I took the 4x4 RW cubes and soaked them in 5.5ph water for 24 hours. After I took them out of the soak I tried to shake out most of the excess water with out squeezing the block. Now my question is, after you soak the block how long will it take to dry out enough that I can start flooding my tray on a schedule? Right now I have 12 girls all in 4x4 and only three have needed any water since the initial transplant. All of them are healthy and growing well. I am trying to get this on point because I am going out of town for a few days on Saturday and I don't want to come back to a dead room. Thanks for you help as always guys. STAY HIGH!!!


Dont worry about the excess water and once you transplant to the blocks start you normal flood cycles and times


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 13, 2012)

akpaco said:


> Thanks for all the responses! HR, so its ok for the light to hit those roots that come out the blocks? And what is your watering schedule? And if you keep the blocks wet most of the time you dont have to worry about any rot _I__'ve read some people cover there table with panda plastic? Thanks bro!! _


I have never ran into rot issues, i like to flood x3 times during lights on for 15min on a 4x4 tables.
as for light i havent seen root pruning from the lights yet but if you got some poly plastic you could 
cover it.


----------



## Penyajo (Sep 13, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Dont worry about the excess water and once you transplant to the blocks start you normal flood cycles and times


Well that was what I was going to do. The plants are just now starting to drink a little bit. Flooding it two times a day seems a bit much to me. The grodon I am using seems to hold a shit ton of water. Do you only flood once a day when the girls are small and then kick it up to twice a day when they get a bit bigger? STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 13, 2012)

Penyajo said:


> Well that was what I was going to do. The plants are just now starting to drink a little bit. Flooding it two times a day seems a bit much to me. The grodon I am using seems to hold a shit ton of water. Do you only flood once a day when the girls are small and then kick it up to twice a day when they get a bit bigger? STAY HIGH!!!


I dont change much from young ones to adults, are you using growdan chunks or flock?


----------



## Warlock1369 (Sep 13, 2012)

Penyajo said:


> Well that was what I was going to do. The plants are just now starting to drink a little bit. Flooding it two times a day seems a bit much to me. The grodon I am using seems to hold a shit ton of water. Do you only flood once a day when the girls are small and then kick it up to twice a day when they get a bit bigger? STAY HIGH!!!


In RW I run water 3x aday all the time. Even when they don't need much water. By flooding you are forcing out the old water and when it drains it pulls o2 down to the roots.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 13, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> In RW I run water 3x aday all the time. Even when they don't need much water. By flooding you are forcing out the old water and when it drains it pulls o2 down to the roots.


Very well said warlock


----------



## Warlock1369 (Sep 13, 2012)

Thanks. Been feeling like a rookie in some fields. But that happens when you jump into something you never Tryed before. So far plants are liking the tea. But in less then 2 weeks I will be adding the zyme and other stuff not needed with tea. Just not adding tea. Trying 1 on 1 off. Sence I can't make tea every change. Wish I could.


----------



## Warlock1369 (Sep 13, 2012)

And it's funny. I made the same batch in 2 different systems. My RW veg tubes and my ebb & GRO. Same batch mind you. Both in veg. After 1 flood ( like I always do) check ph the RW needed down and ebb needed up. Fist time having both on the same nutes. I'm behind in the glower room. Way to small. Gonna switch next week no matter what. My veg tubes will get to big if I don't. 15 veg plants in a 2x4 area 20" tall and 10 wide will be to much. Times like this I want a table.


----------



## akpaco (Sep 13, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I veg in 4x4 blocks for 3weeks before going to the ebb buckets, its ok if the roots spread out from the block, just make sure
> you flood often enough to keep them wet! And all will be good.



HR,

So you run an 18/6 light schedule for your veg table? If so would you flood four times in the 18 hour lights on?

Thanks again!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 13, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR,
> 
> So you run an 18/6 light schedule for your veg table? If so would you flood four times in the 18 hour lights on?
> 
> Thanks again!


X3 is plenty enough for 18/6
Hey i hear theres another crazy wind storm coming 


But remember you want your roots to stay wet or they will
die and root prune! So a 4th might be in order or like warlock 
said add one at night.


----------



## Warlock1369 (Sep 13, 2012)

3 in light and 1 in dark is what I do. 1 hour after lights on 1 hour before lights out and 1 in the middle. Be it 18/6 or 12/12. But I'm also not on a table.


----------



## akpaco (Sep 13, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> X3 is plenty enough for 18/6
> Hey i hear theres another crazy wind storm coming
> 
> 
> ...



Yep! supposedly saturday night. They say it's not going to be as bad as the last one, we'll see. Our power went out an hour before my set off time and came back at 6am at my on time!
Got lucky!!

Been trout fishing?

Thanks Warlock!


----------



## Trap Bunkin (Sep 13, 2012)

I was under the impression not to flood in dark. Maybe this is just in flower. 

IMO you can flood as many times as you want if your soup contains enough D.O. (dissolved oxygen). As worlock stated when you flood your pushing the old air out and pulling in oxygen rich air. This creates a nutrient "fog" which roots thrive in. 

Many people tune in there floods by watching for wilting and then shortening time between floods.
If your plants are "drooping" in hydroponics then there is simply not enough o2 at the root zone. There can be several causes for this.

a. res temps are too warm causing water to become stagnant, therefor o2 depleted and a breeding ground for pathogens. This will essentially "drown" the roots when flooded to many times or for too long a period. This is when cutting down flood times becomes necessary. 

b. Air pump is to small to keep the nutrient tank oxygenated. pumps should be 1watt per gallon and no less than 1watt per 2 gal. I use a second pond pump rigged with some pvc to create a water fall. This is set on a timer that run 30 min every 2 hours.

In design, flood tables are supposed to allow the user to flood more often causing plants to uptake nutes faster. This leads to earlier finishes. When band-aiding the o2 problem with fewer floods you lose this "boost" that flood tables are famous for.


----------



## Trap Bunkin (Sep 13, 2012)

@Hellraizer

Very nice thread, lots of useful data here. + rep


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## Warlock1369 (Sep 13, 2012)

The reason behind not flooding at night is plants don't take up any nutes or water at that time. Reason I do is I don't like leaving roots to dry for more then 6 hours. So I flood once. Also in a ebb&flow system later roots can be sitting in water without air. So flooding once every 6 hours will give new DO in the water. But other then that there is no need to flood. It's so cheep to do so I won't change.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 13, 2012)

akpaco said:


> Yep! supposedly saturday night. They say it's not going to be as bad as the last one, we'll see. Our power went out an hour before my set off time and came back at 6am at my on time!
> Got lucky!!
> 
> Been trout fishing?
> ...


Little bit but mostly hunting got three caribou and now im looking to get a goat!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 13, 2012)

Trap Bunkin said:


> @Hellraizer
> 
> Very nice thread, lots of useful data here. + rep


Thanks trap.....


----------



## Warlock1369 (Sep 13, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Little bit but mostly hunting got three caribou and now im looking to get a goat!


Goats are allover moms place. Nice slow cook with some hickory to smoke the meat and it's good. Or pit goat. Same way you make a pig in the grownd. Hawiian style. Melts in your mouth. Wild goat is tuff and gamey.


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## Penyajo (Sep 14, 2012)

I am using 4x4 rockwool blocks. They just seem to hold soooooo much water. But I am going to listen to you guys and start flooding a bit more. When I get home from work this afternoon I will take a few more pics and post um up so you guys can see what I got going on. STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## Trap Bunkin (Sep 14, 2012)

um, I should add that everything I stated is for use in hydroton or other media that doesnt hold much water. 

Rockwool holds ALOT of water. You may want to flood less or set your cubes on hydroton in pots to get more floods in.


----------



## Penyajo (Sep 14, 2012)

Yeah. That's ehat I am trying to say. When I soaked the blocks with 5.5 they held that water for almost 7 days. Then I flooded it when they started to dry out a bit. But they wont start to droop for a solid 3 days. And that is with a very short flood time(only about 5 min. Oh well they are growing great I was just a wondering why I only have to water every three days lol. STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 14, 2012)

Penyajo said:


> Yeah. That's ehat I am trying to say. When I soaked the blocks with 5.5 they held that water for almost 7 days. Then I flooded it when they started to dry out a bit. But they wont start to droop for a solid 3 days. And that is with a very short flood time(only about 5 min. Oh well they are growing great I was just a wondering why I only have to water every three days lol. STAY HIGH!!!


Theres nothing to worry about, flood them x3 and you will be fine.


----------



## Warlock1369 (Sep 14, 2012)

The RW will stay wet for along time but it needs flooded a few times a day to flush out old stale water and bring in fresh o2


----------



## Penyajo (Sep 14, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> The RW will stay wet for along time but it needs flooded a few times a day to flush out old stale water and bring in fresh o2


This is what I was looking for. I just didn't want my RW to just keep sucking up more and more water. I was worried that they would start to be deprived of oxygen. I will go ahead and switch it to 2 times a day once in the morn and once inthe afternoon. Thanks for the help guys. PS I will still throw up some pics in a lil bit to show off the ladies. STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## Penyajo (Sep 15, 2012)

Sorry guys got a little drunk last night and didnt get around to booting up the ole computer and uploading the pics. But I had to trans plant a few more clones into their new homes(4x4 blocks). I flooded the tray twice yesterday and they seemed to enjoy it. Any ways heres a pic so you can see how they are coming. The front two rows are Qrazy Train and the back two rows are Querkle. STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 16, 2012)

Looks good pen


----------



## akpaco (Sep 18, 2012)

HR or anyone have an idea what size res i would need for a 2x4 table using 4x4 growdan blocks?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 18, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR or anyone have an idea what size res i would need for a 2x4 table using 4x4 growdan blocks?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


25 to 30 is ideal! If you flood low and use a medium that wicks you could get away with 15gals


----------



## georgeforeman (Sep 20, 2012)

i trying to setup a ebb and flow pre-veg system to transition rooted clones to ebb and grow. Right now i have the system built, but the plants are in net cups that are suspended in a bucket (similar to an aero system) and the roots are hanging underneath the pots. The plants are in rockwool in 3" net cups, should i be concerned that the roots growing out of the medium will dry out and air-prune?


----------



## Warlock1369 (Sep 20, 2012)

Can you take a few pics? Can't realy picture what your meaning.


----------



## georgeforeman (Sep 20, 2012)

here are some pics, there is 3" between the bottom of the net pot and the bottom of the top res.


----------



## Warlock1369 (Sep 20, 2012)

You will be fine along as you have it feed 3times when lights are on. The big issue is your clear bottom. Get it covered and light tight.


----------



## georgeforeman (Sep 20, 2012)

thanks, i plan on wrapping the outside to block light. I will update in a week or 2 and let you know how it goes


----------



## Penyajo (Sep 25, 2012)

Hey guys whats going on. Just stopping by to say what up! Hope all is well with every one. I am starting to get my set up dialed in. All the girls are going crazy as hell right now. Well any ways snapped a pic for yall to check out. STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 26, 2012)

Looking great....! Pen


----------



## Loret55ta (Sep 26, 2012)

*

I have recently read that you can use pure 33% sulfuric acid from auto zone to lower ph.​























*


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 26, 2012)

Loret55ta said:


> *
> 
> I have recently read that you can use pure 33% sulfuric acid from auto zone to lower ph.​
> 
> ...


Yes but I would seek other options
over this


----------



## Penyajo (Sep 26, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Looking great....! Pen


Thanks man. Makes me real happy to hear that. Seeing that I don't show this to any one other than RIU every once n a while. STAY HIGH!!!


----------



## georgeforeman (Sep 26, 2012)

what grodan cubes are you using HR? You say 4x4, but what is the height? 2.5" or 4". Also, when you put these in the ebb and grow, how much of the rockwool cube is under the water-line?


----------



## fumble (Sep 26, 2012)

Lurk ............


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 26, 2012)

georgeforeman said:


> what grodan cubes are you using HR? You say 4x4, but what is the height? 2.5" or 4". Also, when you put these in the ebb and grow, how much of the rockwool cube is under the water-line?



Growdan delta blocks , 4x4x4 or 
hugo 6x6x6 for veging to go into
a ebb&grow bucket systems.

but I'm likening 1/2
gal. Buckets filled with growdan
loose fill. For ebb&flow tables.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 26, 2012)

fumble said:


> Lurk ............


Good to see your still lurking fumble
im still drooling over your cooking
skills


----------



## fumble (Sep 26, 2012)

pulled pork tacos with heirloom tomato salad and homemade cheese croutons


----------



## hellraizer30 (Sep 26, 2012)

Jeez fumble no limit to your skills


----------



## fumble (Sep 26, 2012)

thanks HR...I love to experiment. The heirloom tomato salad was from the cover of the FoodNetworkTV mag. Easy Peasy.


----------



## akpaco (Sep 27, 2012)

HR, 

I just want to confirm your Aquashield ratio? I been using about 12oz per 50-55gal. I don't use piranha or anything else just aquashield. I know your using 7ml per gal but using it with piranha also. Just wanted to confirm the amount?

Thanks Bro!

I hope all this stupid weather won't destroy the trout fishing! Not sure I can take that after the shitty salmon season!!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 1, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR,
> 
> I just want to confirm your Aquashield ratio? I been using about 12oz per 50-55gal. I don't use piranha or anything else just aquashield. I know your using 7ml per gal but using it with piranha also. Just wanted to confirm the amount?
> 
> ...


Hey bro i think winters coming way to fast lol, but im thinking things might get better with the cold.
but yah i use both same time! 7ml per gal aquashield and 2ml per gal piranha.


----------



## akpaco (Oct 2, 2012)

HR,

So my flood table project isn't going that good. Basically what we had before was just a homemade table that we put our 4x4 grodan blocks on and hand watered them. And for the most part it worked pretty good. So for ease of use and consistency in watering I made a flood and drain table. So we started out watering 3 times a day. Now its been about 3 weeks and things aren't going good at all! The problems were having is no growth,wilting and no new roots. I've been out of town and haven't looked at them myself but thats the description I got. So what do you think? First impression is it's just to much water especially since we were hand watering them before inconsistently and they were fine. Also there's a lot of the mold on them. Do you take the plastic off of the grodan when there in the table? Also it seems that the roots would have a hard time establishing in that wet wool? Although I read in past posts that its ok for it to be wet. Any help would be appreciated as usual! I'll try to get some pics

Thanks!


----------



## Metasynth (Oct 2, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR,
> 
> So my flood table project isn't going that good. Basically what we had before was just a homemade table that we put our 4x4 grodan blocks on and hand watered them. And for the most part it worked pretty good. So for ease of use and consistency in watering I made a flood and drain table. So we started out watering 3 times a day. Now its been about 3 weeks and things aren't going good at all! The problems were having is no growth,wilting and no new roots. I've been out of town and haven't looked at them myself but thats the description I got. So what do you think? First impression is it's just to much water especially since we were hand watering them before inconsistently and they were fine. Also there's a lot of the mold on them. Do you take the plastic off of the grodan when there in the table? Also it seems that the roots would have a hard time establishing in that wet wool? Although I read in past posts that its ok for it to be wet. Any help would be appreciated as usual! I'll try to get some pics
> 
> Thanks!


I know you didn't ask me, but how often were you watering when you were hand watering? 3 times a day in straight rockwool seems excessive, and when I tried out 6x6 cubes, I felt once a day was even too much when the plants were young. You may have no new roots because of over-watering, and the plant doesn't need to grow new roots searching for water if the cubes are always over-saturated. A little wet or moist or damp is cool, but sopping wet all the time might not be ideal.

What stage of growth are you in, and how big are the plants? Might wanna cut back to one watering a day, see if the plants perk back up.


----------



## akpaco (Oct 2, 2012)

Metasynth said:


> I know you didn't ask me, but how often were you watering when you were hand watering? 3 times a day in straight rockwool seems excessive, and when I tried out 6x6 cubes, I felt once a day was even too much when the plants were young. You may have no new roots because of over-watering, and the plant doesn't need to grow new roots searching for water if the cubes are always over-saturated. A little wet or moist or damp is cool, but sopping wet all the time might not be ideal.
> 
> What stage of growth are you in, and how big are the plants? Might wanna cut back to one watering a day, see if the plants perk back up.



Meta,

No problem!! Appreciate the info!! Hopefully they can pop back.. What we were doing is cloning in root shooters or similar then when the roots were established we would put them in the 4x4 grodan and move to table. Was probably watering once a day at best. So I'll cut down on the watering right away. Just a note we move them from that stage to our buckets with hydroton. They probably have been in the grodan for 3-4 weeks. Do you keep the plastic the blocks in the table??

Thanks!!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 2, 2012)

I leave the plastic on, but 3-4 weeks you should have trees! So something must be rong! I would cut back on watering
till you see roots poping out the lower part of the blocks. Sounds like over watering


----------



## akpaco (Oct 2, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I leave the plastic on, but 3-4 weeks you should have trees! So something must be rong! I would cut back on watering
> till you see roots poping out the lower part of the blocks. Sounds like over watering


Thanks HR,


They never get that big in 3 weeks. At least ours don't. We're going to switch to net pots with hydroton in the table then we'll just put the whole thing in our buckets. Hopefully that should work better.

Thanks


----------



## MrMeanGreen (Oct 13, 2012)

This is my main issue with RW..... If watering frequency isnt bang on, and it changes all the time due to plant requirements, it is very hard not to drown your roots and get a good oxygen supply. 

When you use hydroton, the top 20% or so of your roots dont really see water other than high humidity and gives constant supply of oxygen to roots. The remaining 80% can pretty much stay submerged and the plant will never drown. 

If you fuck up a feed or aquire any nasties in RW it is shit loads more work to flush em and fix the problem.

I really dont understand why folk use RW cubes other than for cloning, especially with F&D tables, it's counter productive.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 13, 2012)

Well I have run both mediums on large scale
operations and r/w is by far the easyest to use 
for me. All the issue he's having I don't think it's 
becouse of to much watering, more so not enough
watering, to push old water out and replace with
new. His yellowing I think is from a lack of propper
levels of nutes. The short of it is there's 2 issues
1) roots
2) Npk is out of wack


----------



## fumble (Oct 13, 2012)

muah!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Oct 13, 2012)

wassup hellraizer, thanks for helping me on this. Ok so this is my 4th attempt on doing 6 inch rw on 4x8 flood table. I feed 3x daily. once hr after light on, 2nd mid day and 3rd one hr before light off. girls r started yellowing again. lower fan leaf r getting yellow and plant kinda light green. i use sensi grow a and b with ph perfect from advance nutes. b52, cal mag, and monster grow. about 800ppm. I also add heis tea straight to rw and 1cup per 10 gal on res. water temp r about 72-73 because of my 120w air pump blowing hot air to res. I just started using a powerful air pump. before my water stay around 68-69 and i still had that problem. I flood about 1inch and take about 5-8min to drain. Im so tired to root rot. it seem to happen every time. I know people with dirty ass grow room with ton of spider mite and still about to pull 1lb per 1000w. idont what in doing wrong..maybe i should go soil?


----------



## Warlock1369 (Oct 13, 2012)

Yellow is N or mag diffent. Your using cal mag do my guess would be N. Each plant strain is different some need more of things some need less. Like mine I can fallow what I did with my OG but need to add K for my MK. And less P for the NL.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 13, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> wassup hellraizer, thanks for helping me on this. Ok so this is my 4th attempt on doing 6 inch rw on 4x8 flood table. I feed 3x daily. once hr after light on, 2nd mid day and 3rd one hr before light off. girls r started yellowing again. lower fan leaf r getting yellow and plant kinda light green. i use sensi grow a and b with ph perfect from advance nutes. b52, cal mag, and monster grow. about 800ppm. I also add heis tea straight to rw and 1cup per 10 gal on res. water temp r about 72-73 because of my 120w air pump blowing hot air to res. I just started using a powerful air pump. before my water stay around 68-69 and i still had that problem. I flood about 1inch and take about 5-8min to drain. Im so tired to root rot. it seem to happen every time. I know people with dirty ass grow room with ton of spider mite and still about to pull 1lb per 1000w. idont what in doing wrong..maybe i should go soil?


Yellowing from the bottom up is a Nitrogen def. i would up your base nutes (seni grow A/B) 800ppm without the sups
then add your sups for a total of 1000 to 1100ppm, also add sensi cal A

for bloom you need to use seni bloom A/B seting your base ppm at 800 to 900ppm then add sups dont go over 1200ppm
also start using sensi cal B

if im reading this right you only use sensi grow a/b with b52, cal mag and monster grow

stop using the cal mag and get seni cal a and b
stop using the monster grow

Heres a fast break down of what you should be using
sensi grow A and B. 
sensi bloom A and B
b-52
sensi cal A and B 

once you get your npk problem worked out then start looking at them roots
they look stained from the tea so stop thinking its root rot! I dont see a issue.


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Oct 13, 2012)

would it be ok to flood longer since i have 120w air pump in res? there are alot of DO oxygen in water. i know for dwc the root stay in water and grow mad root cuz alot of DO oxygen in water..should i flood for 20-30min?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 13, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> would it be ok to flood longer since i have 120w air pump in res? there are alot of DO oxygen in water. i know for dwc the root stay in water and grow mad root cuz alot of DO oxygen in water..should i flood for 20-30min?


Flood for 15min

but your issues not with that its with your npk ratios


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Oct 13, 2012)

Leafs are falling off each days. some dont even have fan leaves anymore..


----------



## Warlock1369 (Oct 13, 2012)

Could be nute lock. Your roots don't match the plants. What is your ph? And are you useing bennies or h2o2? Ether way I would say 24 hour flush with h2o2 at 3ml/gal. Then start back at 1/2 nutes. You could be to high in a field locking out the rest. So that's the only Reason I say flush.


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Oct 13, 2012)

24hr straight? how should i flood it? im currently flooding 1 inch or less...I did a 3hr flush with RO water and ho2o 2 week ago


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 13, 2012)

24 hours set at your normal feeding times. I'm having the same issue right now with my veg table. Flushing every 2 weeks and stoped useing hygrozyme. Useing just tea. And it's helping. The ph was a big desider on this. With tea I got the ph undercontrol in 2 days. Zyme it would go to 8 in a day. I got something growing in my system. But bennies are working best. As I type thus I'm flushing out the h2o2 with RO water an alot of N. Then clean that out and add tea with my nutes.


----------



## Warlock1369 (Oct 13, 2012)

I do use both. Hygrozyme and tea. 2 weeks each. This is working good in flower but not in veg. I will be going all tea after zyme is gone. Not tossing $100 bucks away when it's doing good. But if I see a drop it will be gone in flower as well. I'm trying to use as little as needed. So it is experimenting to a point. So far 1 cup of tea is 10x better then the zyme per gallon.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 13, 2012)

We need to know what your ph is? Are you up to speed on what ph is?


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Oct 14, 2012)

my ph is around 6.0. i think sensi a and b ph perfect keep it around 6.0 that is what hydro store guy says. in veg they root stay bright white until around 2nd week of flowering. i use the same veg for the first 2 week of flower, exacting the same. I veg for 1 month and no problem at all. i dont know wuts going on...i use monster grow also and it got really high N. my ppm around 600-800 on veg and first 2 week of flower.


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## georgeforeman (Oct 14, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Growdan delta blocks , 4x4x4 or
> hugo 6x6x6 for veging to go into
> a ebb&grow bucket systems.
> 
> ...



When you transplant into hydroton, how far do you bury the rockwool? Is it below flood level? If it is above flood level, do you hand water until the roots grow down into the hydroton?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 14, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> my ph is around 6.0. i think sensi a and b ph perfect keep it around 6.0 that is what hydro store guy says. in veg they root stay bright white until around 2nd week of flowering. i use the same veg for the first 2 week of flower, exacting the same. I veg for 1 month and no problem at all. i dont know wuts going on...i use monster grow also and it got really high N. my ppm around 600-800 on veg and first 2 week of flower.



Stop using sensi grow during pre flower and start using sensi bloom!

bloom is for when you switch to 12/12
and grow is for veg


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 14, 2012)

georgeforeman said:


> When you transplant into hydroton, how far do you bury the rockwool? Is it below flood level? If it is above flood level, do you hand water until the roots grow down into the hydroton?


When i i was using tron i would set the block to where the top of the block was even with the surface of the tron 
you dont want to place it deep cause it waists medium! Roots grow out and down better than up!


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Oct 14, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Stop using sensi grow during pre flower and start using sensi bloom!
> 
> bloom is for when you switch to 12/12
> and grow is for veg


Ok i will switch it. i only have dutch master gold a and b. will that he good enough? Since i am have N def. will by switching it to flower nutes fix my problem?

Im 5th week in. should i just start new?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 14, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> Ok i will switch it. i only have dutch master gold a and b. will that he good enough? Since i am have N def. will by switching it to flower nutes fix my problem?
> View attachment 2373512View attachment 2373514View attachment 2373515View attachment 2373516
> Im 5th week in. should i just start new?


No keep this one going! Just get the bloom nutes going... Go buy sensi bloom a/b
yellow leaves onces yellow will not turn green again


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## Chopsticks33 (Oct 15, 2012)

I started a new batch the past 1 1/2 week. This time put the 6x6x6 inch rw cube in 8 inch pot sitting on hydroton._ Its sitting on about 2 inch hydroton . Im feeding 3x day and doing all the good info from this thread. I was feeding veg notes untill today. I notice new fan leaf on bottom of plants getting really yellow again. its completely yellow and plant really pale. room temp are about high 80s with 1400 ppm co2. i notice little nute burn i boost it up to 1200. wow growing can be this hard! i will update some picture. I hate to see this batch go down like before the past years!_


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## jfleezy15 (Oct 16, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4eukbMk83Y&feature=g-upl thats the video that taught me how to build a one plant ebb and flow system. It teaches the basice concepts and can be adapted to larger operations with a few changes in materials.


----------



## akpaco (Oct 16, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> my ph is around 6.0. i think sensi a and b ph perfect keep it around 6.0 that is what hydro store guy says. in veg they root stay bright white until around 2nd week of flowering. i use the same veg for the first 2 week of flower, exacting the same. I veg for 1 month and no problem at all. i dont know wuts going on...i use monster grow also and it got really high N. my ppm around 600-800 on veg and first 2 week of flower.


Just a heads up! PH Perfect won't keep your PH steady at any level. What it does is allow your plants to uptake nutrients in a large range, like 5.6 to 7.0 without adjusting your PH.


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## akpaco (Oct 16, 2012)

HR,

Next round thinking about running a row of my buckets with grodan grow cubes. Do you think it would be a problem to just run one with the grodan and the others with hydroton?
Seems like a lot of people are getting good results running grow cubes in there system.

Thanks!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 16, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR,
> 
> Next round thinking about running a row of my buckets with grodan grow cubes. Do you think it would be a problem to just run one with the grodan and the others with hydroton?
> Seems like a lot of people are getting good results running grow cubes in there system.
> ...


I have done this paco so you should be fine, with growdan x3 floods and tron x4floods but 
but its only the matter of one flood! Dont think it will have a neg effect


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## akpaco (Oct 16, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I have done this paco so you should be fine, with growdan x3 floods and tron x4floods but
> but its only the matter of one flood! Dont think it will have a neg effect


Thanks HR!

Should I just go for it and do all cubes? Everything is going great but always looking to improve. I've seen the root development with the growdan cubes/chunks and it's pretty impressive!
Aren't you using just the grodan now?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 16, 2012)

akpaco said:


> Thanks HR!
> 
> Should I just go for it and do all cubes? Everything is going great but always looking to improve. I've seen the root development with the growdan cubes/chunks and it's pretty impressive!
> Aren't you using just the grodan now?


Growdan chunks on most runs and growdan loose fill AKA (floc)
tron is just to labouring


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## akpaco (Oct 16, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Growdan chunks on most runs and growdan loose fill AKA (floc)
> tron is just to labouring


HR,

I agree! It's a pain in the ass!! I'm still a ways out but when I get close I'll have some questions for you of course. As always! Thanks for all your help!


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 16, 2012)

No problem paco....


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## Ganjapussy (Oct 16, 2012)

How would you put a germed seed in a dwc, with out rockwool or anything to support the seed. Plain hydroton


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 16, 2012)

Ganjapussy said:


> How would you put a germed seed in a dwc, with out rockwool or anything to support the seed. Plain hydroton


To my knowledge you cant without huge risk to the seedling, there are lots of mediums other that growdan you
could use


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## Ganjapussy (Oct 16, 2012)

Okay. If I did use rockwool, should I put it in hydroton above water level or just so the bottom of the rockwool is constantly wet?


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 17, 2012)

Ganjapussy said:


> Okay. If I did use rockwool, should I put it in hydroton above water level or just so the bottom of the rockwool is constantly wet?


You want to place the cube where water can keep the tron wet and a natural amount of moisture can
soak the growdan and wick into it.


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## Ganjapussy (Oct 17, 2012)

What is your opinion on a 2x2 ebb and flow tray with just rockwool through the entire grow?


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 17, 2012)

Ganjapussy said:


> What is your opinion on a 2x2 ebb and flow tray with just rockwool through the entire grow?


Its a great idea! I got a buddy that pulls a lb off a 2x4 table so skys the limit!


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## Ganjapussy (Oct 17, 2012)

Okay.. One last thing. Organic nutes, or man made? And what's the best brand for ebb and flow? I was looking at organic "plant supplement" called earth juice. I saw that it has everything in it for our plants, but perhaps not enough to just use alone? What you think?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 17, 2012)

Ganjapussy said:


> Okay.. One last thing. Organic nutes, or man made? And what's the best brand for ebb and flow? I was looking at organic "plant supplement" called earth juice. I saw that it has everything in it for our plants, but perhaps not enough to just use alone? What you think?



Well do not go organic it will =a nightmare!

and since im droping using AN and switching
to canna, i would go canna its super clean and
cheap.


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## Ganjapussy (Oct 17, 2012)

There's alot of canna out there haha, which exactly are you switching too? Aqua, veg, bloom, I saw a couple As and Bs as well?


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 17, 2012)

Ganjapussy said:


> There's alot of canna out there haha, which exactly are you switching too? Aqua, veg, bloom, I saw a couple As and Bs as well?


Aqua is there hydro line and theres a a/b for veg and a/b for bloom


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## Ganjapussy (Oct 17, 2012)

Thank you sir!

I might just go with clones since Al had good advice. What's the best way to work with clones when using a ebb and flow?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 17, 2012)

Ganjapussy said:


> Thank you sir!
> 
> I might just go with clones since Al had good advice. What's the best way to work with clones when using a ebb and flow?


I like using growdan starter cubes or rapid rooters to root in then, either transplant to growdan blocks or buckets filled with
growdan medium! Then just place them on the table....simple and effective!


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 17, 2012)

Clones are easy to work with. But if you get clones grime somebody. Flush them. You don't know if what they uses will have a bad reaction to your nutes. Start with 1/4 nutes if they are well rooted. But that's all depending on the clones so it's hard to say right now. I give nothing but water till roots show on the bottom of a 3" RW cube.


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## Ganjapussy (Oct 17, 2012)

Cool. That reminds me, the reason for an ebb and flow with rockwool is so the roots get a stream of water, and then back in the res ya? Well, what if the roots grow out the rockwool, and on the table? Problem? If so, then if I flower 12/12 from clones, how big a rockwool would I need?


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 17, 2012)

If you don't plan on moving them around I like to place a root mat down. Then cubes on top. 6" cubes are great but you can use 4" but roots need somewhere to go. But if you plan to move the plants just cover you table with panda plastic. Cut holes where you want the plants and place the cubes in there. Use the flaps you cut to cover the RW from mildew. This will keep light off your roots.


----------



## Ganjapussy (Oct 17, 2012)

That makes since. The clone mat you speak of, is that ole a germination dome with heat Mat? I was thinking a propagator with plugs, but the dome would be easier


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 17, 2012)

This is the mat.
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/p-13811-cocotek-mats-organic-growing-medium.aspx
You line the bottom of you table with it. Roots grow in it and under.


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 17, 2012)

That's not for cloning. It's after you clone and place in final cubes. Once roots grow in to it. It's almost impossible to cut it and move without damaging roots.


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## Ganjapussy (Oct 17, 2012)

Would you say that your experience is greater when your room and razors room go head to head


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 17, 2012)

It's real hard to say. HR has his experimenting down. I'm still working with different things that work for my style of growing. But over all we should be close to each others. But our styles are way different. But the same. I think I got mine down but need 1 more grow to set it in stone.


----------



## Ganjapussy (Oct 17, 2012)

I noticed you use 2600w and get 30 zones? Was that just half a run or..? What do you usually get?


----------



## Warlock1369 (Oct 17, 2012)

I've had a few issues with my grows. Jail and being gone with work. If every grow whent right I have 15 plants going. I can get 4-6 zips each or more. So that's over 5L. I could do better but with me being gone alot I'm happy. I have yet to do a full good grow becouse I'm still working on what works best for me. I won't say one way is better or worse. I know what is working for me. I'm only 4 years into hydro. So I'm still far from HR in the way of trying different things.


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## Ganjapussy (Oct 17, 2012)

You get 20grand worth of bud every 3 months.. And you still work? I feel sorry for you


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 17, 2012)

I can get 16k evey 9 weeks. But then you break it down. After all bills and nutes and extra stuff. Take out for personal use. Then split it between me and my partners. And take out what I give away to people that realy need stuff ( green/ equipment) we get an extra 1500 a month each. I can't live off that. I'm not in it to not work. I love my job. Get paid to travel the world. I do it to help people in need. And there are people here that can say I give alot. Hell this weekend I think I handed out about $400 bucks of stuff to someone that needed it. Even took it 2 hours away to them. So looking at the money isn't me. As long as we are all happy bills are paid and green is growing. I'm doing what I like.


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## Ganjapussy (Oct 17, 2012)

Pretty good story... I get 2k a month in a apartment. I'm a stay at home dad. Girlfriend brings home another 2k a month. Once we move- months away, were getting a house, so I'm going bigger aiming for 5/10k a month. Save and retire man.. Save and retire hah


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## akpaco (Oct 17, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Well do not go organic it will =a nightmare!
> 
> and since im droping using AN and switching
> to canna, i would go canna its super clean and
> cheap.


HR,

Your going a different direction on me?? No more AN PH perfect?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 17, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR,
> 
> Your going a different direction on me?? No more AN PH perfect?


Not by my choice paco, i love the stuff but theres been to many bad bottles
as of late! Not sure why but the mix is coming way to hot and not what it was
a few months ago!

it boils down to everytime i buy new bottles i have to re adjust how i mix it,
not consistant anymore 

you having any issue?


----------



## akpaco (Oct 17, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Not by my choice paco, i love the stuff but theres been to many bad bottles
> as of late! Not sure why but the mix is coming way to hot and not what it was
> a few months ago!
> 
> ...


HR, I kind of have mixed feelings about it. I like the PH Perfect aspect of it but honestly I've never mixed it according to the instructions. I feel if I mixed at there recommended ratio I would torch my plants! So because I don't mix it according to the instructions I never start with a PH level lower then 6.0. But I figured the benefit of the PH Perfect I Didn't have to worry about it. Although in a weeks time my PH never goes above 6.8-6.9. Overall it's been ok. When we originally talked I was calling the shop for canna and thats when I went with AN PH Perfect.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 17, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR, I kind of have mixed feelings about it. I like the PH Perfect aspect of it but honestly I've never mixed it according to the instructions. I feel if I mixed at there recommended ratio I would torch my plants! So because I don't mix it according to the instructions I never start with a PH level lower then 6.0. But I figured the benefit of the PH Perfect I Didn't have to worry about it. Although in a weeks time my PH never goes above 6.8-6.9. Overall it's been ok. When we originally talked I was calling the shop for canna and thats when I went with AN PH Perfect.



Im with you on the mixing! Theres no way to follow them lol but im sold on the ph perfect ability, but my last run 
was distroyed by a bad mix on there part! All i did was mix to 900 ppm! The same mix i always do and fault on my
part for not double checking but its never been a issue before. Well it was 1800ppm and shit just fried  so that
and even dude at the shop lost a run to a hot batch! 

With all that and canna just siting there im going to try it.

i have run everything else they carry and none of them yield as much as AN so 
im hoping canna rocks the house cause im in a corner at this point!


----------



## akpaco (Oct 17, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Im with you on the mixing! Theres no way to follow them lol but im sold on the ph perfect ability, but my last run
> was distroyed by a bad mix on there part! All i did was mix to 900 ppm! The same mix i always do and fault on my
> part for not double checking but its never been a issue before. Well it was 1800ppm and shit just fried  so that
> and even dude at the shop lost a run to a hot batch!
> ...



I know you tested almost everything! I'll be curious to see how it goes! Good luck!


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## Ganjapussy (Oct 18, 2012)

What all nutes from AN did you use razor?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 18, 2012)

Ganjapussy said:


> What all nutes from AN did you use razor?



base nutes A/B/C
big bud
b-52
sensi cal a/b
bud ignighter
overdrive
rynoskin
bud blood


bennys
voodoo
piarahna


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## Ganjapussy (Oct 18, 2012)

What was the yield compared to the others you've tried?


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 18, 2012)

Ganjapussy said:


> What was the yield compared to the others you've tried?



At least 25% more


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## tree king (Oct 19, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> base nutes A/B/C
> big bud
> b-52
> sensi cal a/b
> ...


hellraizer im curious have you did any tests and run a flower grow with b-52 and without b-52? my main concern with it is it raises the ppm too much and could maybe mess up the npk ratio. what are your thoughts on this and what differences have you noticed in adding it in flower?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2012)

tree king said:


> hellraizer im curious have you did any tests and run a flower grow with b-52 and without b-52? my main concern with it is it raises the ppm too much and could maybe mess up the npk ratio. what are your thoughts on this and what differences have you noticed in adding it in flower?


I have run with and without it, and seen zero in performace but yes theres a ppm jump for sure!
just another thing i think you could live without


----------



## tree king (Oct 19, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I have run with and without it, and seen zero in performace but yes theres a ppm jump for sure!
> just another thing i think you could live without


so why do you still use it? do you think nirvana would be a better substitute because its supposed to increase bud size plus has b vitamins in it? im guessing you might think its bad for a sterile res though. for me it would have to be good to run with dutch master zone


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2012)

tree king said:


> so why do you still use it? do you think nirvana would be a better substitute because its supposed to increase bud size plus has b vitamins in it? im guessing you might think its bad for a sterile res though. for me it would have to be good to run with dutch master zone


Well im not using any of it! Im running canna now and comparing from old exp of AN
if things dont go well with canna i will go back to AN but without the b-52


----------



## tree king (Oct 19, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Well im not using any of it! Im running canna now and comparing from old exp of AN
> if things dont go well with canna i will go back to AN but without the b-52


gotcha. if you were still running AN would nirvana be an option for you running a sterile res (zone) or is it a bad idea?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2012)

tree king said:


> gotcha. if you were still running AN would nirvana be an option for you running a sterile res (zone) or is it a bad idea?



If your going with zone or h202 for a sterile res i wouldnt use nirvana! I wouldnt use it in a non sterile res either!


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## tree king (Oct 19, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> If your going with zone or h202 for a sterile res i wouldnt use nirvana! I wouldnt use it in a non sterile res either!


hr you know what im gonna ask lol im tryin to yank it outta you. why wouldnt you use it?


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2012)

tree king said:


> hr you know what im gonna ask lol im tryin to yank it outta you. why wouldnt you use it?


Lol its simple bro! Nirvana has organics in it, and will f- your res up good!
only organics that go in my ressys are brewed teas 

other thing that are a no go
are F1, H2, wet betty, carboload, bud candy


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## dbkick (Oct 19, 2012)

poop in the res, no thanks! I'm back bitches! ebb monsters all the way around! so tell me, has anyone tried multiple strains at multiple stages in this type of system? sounds difficult to pull off but not really, I think I'll be giving it a go although maybe I'll just run two separate system in flower, that would be pretty easy to run something perpetual like.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2012)

dbkick said:


> poop in the res, no thanks! I'm back bitches! ebb monsters all the way around! so tell me, has anyone tried multiple strains at multiple stages in this type of system? sounds difficult to pull off but not really, I think I'll be giving it a go although maybe I'll just run two separate system in flower, that would be pretty easy to run something perpetual like.



I have done x3 strains at once but they were even in feeding styles, as for stages! If you do it it will be a first in my book!


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## dbkick (Oct 19, 2012)

I'd have to move in the light feeders first and hope by the time the heavies come in the ppm will be up, of course I'll have to break rules and use shit in weeks its not really meant for if I do a lot of additives but I basically only use big bud. maybe I'll fuck this off and just do multiple strains at the same stages. that shouldn't be too hard even though I don't know the strains.


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## dbkick (Oct 19, 2012)

two systems isn't out of the question but a pain in my ass. not too mention some more coin.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2012)

dbkick said:


> I'd have to move in the light feeders first and hope by the time the heavies come in the ppm will be up, of course I'll have to break rules and use shit in weeks its not really meant for if I do a lot of additives but I basically only use big bud. maybe I'll fuck this off and just do multiple strains at the same stages. that shouldn't be too hard even though I don't know the strains.


I did a run once with 900ppm of grow/micro/bloom and big bud from start to finish never changing anything
and it turned out great lol and when it can time to flush i pulled out the inner bucket and placed it on the floor
with a tray under it and just hand watered it for 7days, worked great!


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## dbkick (Oct 19, 2012)

that was my plan too kinda, the flushing part, but I was gonna buy another ebb controller on the cheap and upgrade it to monster size for a total of 4 different controllers . this would leave one system free for flushing. but your idea sounds better too me, cheaper.


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## dbkick (Oct 19, 2012)

here's my shit now! not enough room and I'm gonna have to do something quick! the cooler is res for 5 buckets plus a 5 gallon controller, I think there may be 5 gallons left in the cooler after flood but when they get to this size I'll have to be keeping a eye daily on level I'm sure.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2012)

dbkick said:


> here's my shit now! not enough room and I'm gonna have to do something quick! the cooler is res for 5 buckets plus a 5 gallon controller, I think there may be 5 gallons left in the cooler after flood but when they get to this size I'll have to be keeping a eye daily on level I'm sure.


When you planning on the flip?

looking nice! Those black stars nice and cool?


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## dbkick (Oct 19, 2012)

no blackstar in that photo, custom t5 and a blue/white/red(possibly equal ratio) 600 watt panel of some kind, the blackstars are gone monday, sold them to finance a more blue/white custom spectrum diy panel of some kind.I'm actually thinking of skipping the panel and just getting a nice blue 400 watt mh .hortilux of course.


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## dbkick (Oct 19, 2012)

they do run cool though, they're just too red for really nice veg and I refuse to use an led in flower.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2012)

That light looks so much like led lol my bad!


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## dbkick (Oct 19, 2012)

the t5 with blue actinic tubes runs hot as fuck though. I like how it looks in there with those tubes though and know the spectrum is right , I got a couple 10000k tubes coming tuesday, taking forever to get them for some reason. they'll round out my t5 and I'll run a 150 watt welthink wex 150,its got a little of every color in it and is impressive for a 150 watt led.


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## tree king (Oct 19, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Lol its simple bro! Nirvana has organics in it, and will f- your res up good!
> only organics that go in my ressys are brewed teas
> 
> other thing that are a no go
> are F1, H2, wet betty, carboload, bud candy


F1, H2, and wet betty are in the ph perfect i get what your sayin though thanks


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## dbkick (Oct 19, 2012)

there is a 600 watt panel in there also, looks like this....


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## dbkick (Oct 19, 2012)

give or take a few watts due to burnt out shit.not actual watts of course.


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## dbkick (Oct 19, 2012)

what about pests in a system like this? I've taken the time to half assed seal my buckets up in an attempt to keep anything out. was that a waste of time or what?


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2012)

dbkick said:


> what about pests in a system like this? I've taken the time to half assed seal my buckets up in an attempt to keep anything out. was that a waste of time or what?


Thats nice bro will stop mold and algie from geting in and fugus knats


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## dbkick (Oct 19, 2012)

I hate those fuckers, all of them.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2012)

dbkick said:


> I hate those fuckers, all of them.


Me to....!


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## dbkick (Oct 19, 2012)

I have a xan/cider induced question about these systems. it may end up a ignorant question but I hope not. ideally we run these systems with two lines right? one to flood one to drain, can these type of systems be setup so that only one line is used? I mean it's just a matter of pumping through a pump that isn't on right?


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## hornedfrog2000 (Oct 19, 2012)

What up hr? Im still around and lurking when i can. Just saying hi. My laptop broke so im on my phone. Good luck in all your ventures!


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2012)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> What up hr? Im still around and lurking when i can. Just saying hi. My laptop broke so im on my phone. Good luck in all your ventures!



Dam now there's a long time no ssee person. 
How you been?


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 19, 2012)

dbkick said:


> I have a xan/cider induced question about these systems. it may end up a ignorant question but I hope not. ideally we run these systems with two lines right? one to flood one to drain, can these type of systems be setup so that only one line is used? I mean it's just a matter of pumping through a pump that isn't on right?



I have put some thought into this and kkeep coming 
blank


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## dbkick (Oct 19, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I have put some thought into this and kkeep coming
> blank


really?I'd think syphoning would be the only problem and we all know how to fix that.


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 19, 2012)

Yes you can but and this is a big but. Let's say something finds it's way into the line. And blocks it. You run the risk of burning up 2 pumps. And don't say nothing will get in. Anyone that has ever worked with hydroton knows you find that shit everywhere and in places it should never of gotten. Don't ask me how but it dose. So having 2 lines leaves 1 end open to let anything flow threw and later clean out.


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## dbkick (Oct 19, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> Yes you can but and this is a big but. Let's say something finds it's way into the line. And blocks it. You run the risk of burning up 2 pumps. And don't say nothing will get in. Anyone that has ever worked with hydroton knows you find that shit everywhere and in places it should never of gotten. Don't ask me how but it dose. So having 2 lines leaves 1 end open to let anything flow threw and later clean out.


the reason I'm on this is because I have two 25 foot runs (one drain and one fill), I don't want to run more tubing because its a pain in my ass, I would however like to run two different 3 bucket systems in the same flower room though, the res would both be 25 foot away in another room. there does seem to be more room for failure and maybe I should just keep one res in the flower room to run one 3 bucket system and then use both the existing tubing to run the other 3-6 buckets from the res outside the room.


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 20, 2012)

Are you thinking different stages in flowerroom or all the same? If all the same you can just use 3 different brains on 1 res. If different stages you will need 3 res. But I don't realy see a way around the extra hose. I have my res out of the flower room and also have 20' of hose to deal with.


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## dbkick (Oct 20, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> Are you thinking different stages in flowerroom or all the same? If all the same you can just use 3 different brains on 1 res. If different stages you will need 3 res. But I don't realy see a way around the extra hose. I have my res out of the flower room and also have 20' of hose to deal with.


yeah mine goes under stairs and thru at least two walls, very little incentive to run another 120 dollars worth of tubing. different stages yes.


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 20, 2012)

Have you though of PVC pipe? If it's the main lines water do not stay in them like the feed tubes. So build up is not realy there. And if prity cheep. In any way it sounds like you got some work ahead. I'm heading off to bed. But I bet ill dream of something.


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## CaliMackdaddy (Oct 20, 2012)

Currently have a mom started and im planning on running a 3x3 ebb flow system, As for vegging would you recommend zero veg and more plants or 1-2 week veg and fewer plants. What are the real differences between the two and is it really worth filling up the tray to the brim or not.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 20, 2012)

CaliMackdaddy said:


> Currently have a mom started and im planning on running a 3x3 ebb flow system, As for vegging would you recommend zero veg and more plants or 1-2 week veg and fewer plants. What are the real differences between the two and is it really worth filling up the tray to the brim or not.


If numbers isnt a issue i would go sog zero veg!


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## CaliMackdaddy (Oct 20, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> If numbers isnt a issue i would go sog zero veg!


If i were to do 16 plants in 6 inch cubes how long would you wanna veg for? 3x3 600W


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 20, 2012)

3-4 weeks of veg would be great for 16 plants.


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## CaliMackdaddy (Oct 20, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> 3-4 weeks of veg would be great for 16 plants.


I was thinking 1-2, 4 weeks really?


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 20, 2012)

Well I guess it depends the plants and how big you want. 4 weeks is nothing for me.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 20, 2012)

Hes in a 3x3 so sog zeros i think would be best or at most 1week veg


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 20, 2012)

Sog on a 3x3 table would be 36+ plants. With 1 week veg. Finishing at about 18" tall. With 16 plants like he said I wouldn't go less then 2 weeks veg but up to 4. This will give right around 2-2.5 foot plants. Filling up the whole 3x3 table with a nice canopy. And the 600 would deffenitly penetrate that. Maximizing his plant count for the yield he wants. Not trying to say what way to go just giving other options. But if plant count dosnt matter go SOG. Alot faster turn around.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 20, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> Sog on a 3x3 table would be 36+ plants. With 1 week veg. Finishing at about 18" tall. With 16 plants like he said I wouldn't go less then 2 weeks veg but up to 4. This will give right around 2-2.5 foot plants. Filling up the whole 3x3 table with a nice canopy. And the 600 would deffenitly penetrate that. Maximizing his plant count for the yield he wants. Not trying to say what way to go just giving other options. But if plant count dosnt matter go SOG. Alot faster turn around.



True that


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## BloodshotGrin (Oct 20, 2012)

Starting my 4th grow. 1st one in E&G. Wish me luck!


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 20, 2012)

Looks dialed in. So good luck. But here is a tip. Get your temp meter off your light. It will never read right like that


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## akpaco (Oct 20, 2012)

If you had your timer dialed in couldn't you run a single line to your table? Although for me that would be super risky. Plus as your plants use more water you would have to constantly change your flood time. I would think?


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 20, 2012)

BloodshotGrin said:


> Starting my 4th grow. 1st one in E&G. Wish me luck!
> 
> View attachment 2380102



Looks great all but one thing! You need to get that control box out of the tent.
the heat from the light will bake the water that get left in it and cause a outbreak
of bactiria


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 20, 2012)

The brain bucket will be close to the plants buckets. As long as the res is out of the room the brain should be fine.


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## dbkick (Oct 20, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> The brain bucket will be close to the plants buckets. As long as the res is out of the room the brain should be fine.


lets hope so, I'd have my controller in the same room as the res myself but the 25 foot run both ways isn't level so gravity wouldn't work well back to the control bucket.


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 20, 2012)

And that's why I have my brain 18" from plants. But res is 20' away. Holding 71F temps. Would love to have brain next to res but can't at this time.


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## dbkick (Oct 21, 2012)

I'm about to mod a cute little cap ebb and gro bucket with 3 float switches to monster status! I noticed people talking about the 3 float switch model as opposed to the 2 float switch models. the old design has 3 float switches , the new design has 2 because the 3rd one isn't needed due to the 3 second delay built into the newer models, I suppose the three second delay was more analog with the 3 float switches.


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## BloodshotGrin (Oct 21, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Looks great all but one thing! You need to get that control box out of the tent.
> the heat from the light will bake the water that get left in it and cause a outbreak
> of bactiria


Thanks! I have wrapped the lines from res to control bucket and to plant sites with insulation and plan to build some kind of box to shade/insulate control bucket. I have very limited space to grow, so it will have to stay in the tent.... AWESOME THREAD! Thanks again


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## robert 14617 (Oct 21, 2012)

one day i want to try hydro this thread combining all this good info will come in useful thanks subbed


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## Penyajo (Oct 21, 2012)

Hey guys. Just checking in to see how every one is doing. Hope you all are having a good weekend. My girls were doing so great and were frosting up like a fuking blizzard. But then the heat came down a few of my close friends and I felt I needed to be safe than sorry. All of them were chopped on week 3 of flower and it broke my heart. I am now having some major with draws of growing my favorite plant. Any ways like I said better safe than sorry. Hope every one is having a lil better luck than I am. STAY HIGH!!!


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 21, 2012)

Penyajo said:


> Hey guys. Just checking in to see how every one is doing. Hope you all are having a good weekend. My girls were doing so great and were frosting up like a fuking blizzard. But then the heat came down a few of my close friends and I felt I needed to be safe than sorry. All of them were chopped on week 3 of flower and it broke my heart. I am now having some major with draws of growing my favorite plant. Any ways like I said better safe than sorry. Hope every one is having a lil better luck than I am. STAY HIGH!!!


Sorry to hear that pen hope it blows over soon and you can get back at it!


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## Penyajo (Oct 21, 2012)

Yeah I dont think I even was mentioned during the whole thing but I cant stand having alot of stress on my shoulders so I decided to take it all down. I am planning on moving out of state in April of next year. So I think I think I will just leave every thing packed away till then. But overall a complete shit situation. STAY HIGH!!!


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## akpaco (Oct 23, 2012)

HR,

My friend just switched his grow over to bud. Can you still take clones of of them? It'll only of been approx. 24 hours. Someone said you have about a week? 

Thanks!!


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 23, 2012)

You are fine to take clones right now. Later in flower revegging is needed. But can still be done at any stage of flower.


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## akpaco (Oct 23, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> You are fine to take clones right now. Later in flower revegging is needed. But can still be done at any stage of flower.


Thanks Warlock!


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 23, 2012)

Yah your good paco...


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## akpaco (Oct 23, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Yah your good paco...



Cool!! Thanks HR...


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 23, 2012)

akpaco said:


> Cool!! Thanks HR...


Hey paco what strains you running these days?


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## akpaco (Oct 24, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey paco what strains you running these days?


Mostly AK47 but just did a few super lemon haze that came out real good. I prefer the ak47 because it's shorter and works better for my area. 


HR, When you run your grodan cubes/chunks in your buckets do you use any hydroton at all? I see some people use a layer on the bottom and it seems like a lot of people put a layer on top? Can you just use a coco mat cut out for the top? What do you recommend?

Thnaks!


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 24, 2012)

akpaco said:


> Mostly AK47 but just did a few super lemon haze that came out real good. I prefer the ak47 because it's shorter and works better for my area.
> 
> 
> HR, When you run your grodan cubes/chunks in your buckets do you use any hydroton at all? I see some people use a layer on the bottom and it seems like a lot of people put a layer on top? Can you just use a coco mat cut out for the top? What do you recommend?
> ...



I keep it simple and just use growdan zero layering. I see a few folks using tron to layer but sorting out the tron
after is a bitch! If you plan on re-using it. Now the hydrotron is no longer being made, you would have to use
hydro corn a similiar product.


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## akpaco (Oct 24, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I keep it simple and just use growdan zero layering. I see a few folks using tron to layer but sorting out the tron
> after is a bitch! If you plan on re-using it. Now the hydrotron is no longer being made, you would have to use
> hydro corn a similiar product.


So just to clarify? You don't use anything but the grodan in your buckets? What about the light hitting the grodan on top of the buckets? Algae? How do you treat the grodan before you put it in your buckets? PH 5.5 or do you use any other method/

Thanks!!


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 24, 2012)

akpaco said:


> So just to clarify? You don't use anything but the grodan in your buckets? What about the light hitting the grodan on top of the buckets? Algae? How do you treat the grodan before you put it in your buckets? PH 5.5 or do you use any other method/
> 
> Thanks!!


I fill a rubbermaid bin up with water ph 5.5 and dump a bunch of growdan in! Let soak for 6hr 
then use. The only thing i use is a peace of white poly to cover the top of the growdan to eliminate
algae.

i have been puting alot of thought into covering the growdan with sand to stop fungas gnats
and then cover that with white poly to stop algae, seems sound


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 24, 2012)

If your going to use sand you might have a problem of it leaching down and getting into your system. And over time could do damage to the pump drives. If you do go that way I would advise a layer of coco mat befor sand. This might help keeping it out but that's just a guess. Then the poly over.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 24, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> If your going to use sand you might have a problem of it leaching down and getting into your system. And over time could do damage to the pump drives. If you do go that way I would advise a layer of coco mat befor sand. This might help keeping it out but that's just a guess. Then the poly over.



That was the big if for me warlock, my only want was to just eliminate fungas gnats! Seems they still can work through
coco to  and once in growdan there....! There to stay..!


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 24, 2012)

Paroles of a grower.


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 24, 2012)

If there was a set way that had no bugs or problems what so ever but yielded 1/2 of what I do now. My guess is I would switch on the spot. But sence there isn't and won't be all we can do is try different things.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 24, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> If there was a set way that had no bugs or problems what so ever but yielded 1/2 of what I do now. My guess is I would switch on the spot. But sence there isn't and won't be all we can do is try different things.


Thats the truth......


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## akpaco (Oct 24, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I fill a rubbermaid bin up with water ph 5.5 and dump a bunch of growdan in! Let soak for 6hr
> then use. The only thing i use is a peace of white poly to cover the top of the growdan to eliminate
> algae.
> 
> ...


What do you think about using something like Fox Farms big and chunky perlite just on the top?


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 24, 2012)

akpaco said:


> What do you think about using something like Fox Farms big and chunky perlite just on the top?


Fungas gnats can still colinate in that.. Only thing i know for sure is sand.

if your just trying to stop algae then the perlite should work


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## akpaco (Oct 24, 2012)

I would like to totally eliminate any clay from my grow. I also constantly battle gnats! The one thing that always works for me is GoGnats. It's just cedar tree oil. It's harmless it just smells strong. it would be nice not to use it but I just don't know how you can get rid of them completely. I think that damscus? earth would be better then sand but like warlock said it would probably be a nightmare if it got down in your system.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 24, 2012)

akpaco said:


> I would like to totally eliminate any clay from my grow. I also constantly battle gnats! The one thing that always works for me is GoGnats. It's just cedar tree oil. It's harmless it just smells strong. it would be nice not to use it but I just don't know how you can get rid of them completely. I think that damscus? earth would be better then sand but like warlock said it would probably be a nightmare if it got down in your system.


i feel yah on the clay...! Il look into that D earth stuff


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 24, 2012)

Goknat an garlic work good. But never Tryed in hydro.


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 24, 2012)

And it's diatomaceous earth. And can be problematic with ph in hydro. But works great if you can watch ph alot.


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## akpaco (Oct 24, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> Goknat an garlic work good. But never Tryed in hydro.


Warlock,

I have had really good results in hydro with Gognats...


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## Warlock1369 (Oct 24, 2012)

I'm in a setup that gnats can't live. Just yet. It's funny how I worked so hard to get away from coco and soil. And after years I'm going back. Still not willing to go all the way just yet. And no not soil that's for my moms and outdoor only. So soil bugs are now in the back of my mind. Reason I started hydro was to get away from them. But know alot more now. So who knows.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Oct 24, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Dam now there's a long time no ssee person.
> How you been?




Im good. My quantum ballast just shit out on me. Shoulda stuck with my lumateks. Hopefully get a new laptop soon here. See ya around. Im lurking it just sucks posting through my phone.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 24, 2012)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Im good. My quantum ballast just shit out on me. Shoulda stuck with my lumateks. Hopefully get a new laptop soon here. See ya around. Im lurking it just sucks posting through my phone.


I hear yah there...! Hurry up and get a new laptop lol


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## legallyflying (Oct 24, 2012)

Hellraizer saving the newbs from disaster! How you been man? Got burned out on RIU been killing it with the reverse ebb and flood DWC though. The C99 loves that DWC and she matures faster than a pregnant teenager on MTV.


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## legallyflying (Oct 24, 2012)

Oh yeah..DE spread over the net pots..good by knats. None, zip, zero.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 24, 2012)

legallyflying said:


> Oh yeah..DE spread over the net pots..good by knats. None, zip, zero.


Been good just taking it easy 
Any issues with ph swing?


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## legallyflying (Oct 25, 2012)

Don't know why the PH would swing..the water never touches it. Are you in a flood table or something? Your pretty much in sticky card city then.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 25, 2012)

legallyflying said:


> Don't know why the PH would swing..the water never touches it. Are you in a flood table or something? Your pretty much in sticky card city then.


Flood tables filled with growdan, the growdan wicks so the top stays moist! 
So its possibly it could mix with the DE and drain back into the medium thus
geting into the res.


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## legallyflying (Oct 26, 2012)

yeah, if it wicks up to the DE then it will form a big gooey crust on the top of your growdan. Is the entire table filled with growdan? If the tables are not too big you could always topdress the entire table with hydroton. This would create a dry layer on top which would have several advanatages I would think.. slow algae growth, reduce root temps through shading, and most of all, create a dry surface for application of DE. 

Just a thought.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 26, 2012)

Tables have 1 gal buckets in them, think im going to just stick with whats working lol
atleast till i find something else that works.

been looking at canna coco 
and after a grow break it all up
and zyme it for 2day them re-use


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## legallyflying (Oct 26, 2012)

Coco is pretty easy. I had several good coco runs. I suppose it could be re-used but I am too lazy. I used to just take a run to the compost center and dump everything. stems, leaves, coco... the whole lot. 

Make sure to double dose your calmag when using coco. 10ml/gallon. You can leave it out in the lat three weeks without and problems. They don't need much anyways and it is a source of nitrogen. 

Cheers!


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## Chopsticks33 (Oct 27, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> I started a new batch the past 1 1/2 week. This time put the 6x6x6 inch rw cube in 8 inch pot sitting on hydroton._ Its sitting on about 2 inch hydroton . Im feeding 3x day and doing all the good info from this thread. I was feeding veg notes untill today. I notice new fan leaf on bottom of plants getting really yellow again. its completely yellow and plant really pale. room temp are about high 80s with 1400 ppm co2. i notice little nute burn i boost it up to 1200. wow growing can be this hard! i will update some picture. I hate to see this batch go down like before the past years!_


Finally im able to get some pics. I think its im missing something. I just started using supernatural aqua bloom. ppm 750. starting 4th week.


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## hellraizer30 (Oct 28, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> Finally im able to get some pics. I think its im missing something. I just started using supernatural aqua bloom. ppm 750. starting 4th week.
> View attachment 2388972View attachment 2388973View attachment 2388974View attachment 2388975View attachment 2388976



There looking good, a bit of yellowing! Might want to bump it to 900ppm and see if the yellowing slows down.
whats yellow now will stay that way just watch for new yellowing.


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Oct 28, 2012)

Hey Hellraizer, i was reading the instruction for supernatural aqua bloom and it say use once a week. does that mean i shouldnt feed with it daily? it also has really high on N. r that good for flowering?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 28, 2012)

Nitrogen and calcium are important in the first half of flower and then cut back toward the end.
im not sure about this super natural aqua bloom, guess i need to look into it to better understand
it.


i just looked into that stuff and its nothing more the a fancy miricale grow or jacks classic 
stuff is heavy in salts  why they say to flush so much!


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Oct 28, 2012)

I been supernatural aqua grow for the veg and it has great result. I always been had good result on vegging but when flowering come along, thing start going south!


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Oct 28, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> There looking good, a bit of yellowing! Might want to bump it to 900ppm and see if the yellowing slows down.
> whats yellow now will stay that way just watch for new yellowing.


It was on 1200 ppm before until i notice yellowing so 3 days ago i change res and adjust it to 900ppm. i still notice yellow and leafs dying. Sorry for being kinda annoying but i really want to find out what im doing wrong.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 28, 2012)

Well 700 might be to low for that strain of plant your growing but didnt you say you have benn as high as 1400 
with that stuff?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 28, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> It was on 1200 ppm before until i notice yellowing so 3 days ago i change res and adjust it to 900ppm. i still notice yellow and leafs dying. Sorry for being kinda annoying but i really want to find out what im doing wrong.


Your plants look to be locking out chopstick  
via from a salt buildup or ph. This lockout blocks
your plant from recieving what it needs to stay
healthy


i know i might of asked this already but what (medium) are you using?
and what ph are you seting your water at?
do you ph before or after you mix your nutes?
and what type of ph meter do you use?


----------



## shnkrmn (Oct 28, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Now the hydrotron is no longer being made, you would have to use
> hydro corn a similiar product.


Wait, what? Hydroton is no longer being made? So my supply is increasing in value???? ;D I have at least 100 gallons of ton. Much of it is mixed with sunleaves grow rocks. Since I don't veg long I rarely have the kind of root balls that are hard to shake clean.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 28, 2012)

shnkrmn said:


> Wait, what? Hydroton is no longer being made? So my supply is increasing in value???? ;D I have at least 100 gallons of ton. Much of it is mixed with sunleaves grow rocks. Since I don't veg long I rarely have the kind of root balls that are hard to shake clean.


Yep the company that was making it is not in bis no more! So save all you got lol


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Oct 28, 2012)

the highest i went was 1200 ppm . i use supernatural aqua bloom and AN sensi cal for bloom.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 28, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> the highest i went was 1200 ppm . i use supernatural aqua bloom and AN sensi cal for bloom.



I need to know this stuff bro


i know i might of asked this already but what (medium) are you using?
and what ph are you seting your water at?
do you ph before or after you mix your nutes?
and what type of ph meter do you use?


----------



## FuzzDodger (Oct 28, 2012)

Anybody have any input on these mediums. Im just getting in to Hydro after years in soil, getting my gear together. Picked up my Titan flo n gro yesterday. was trying to find an ideal medium to use. Hydroton seems like a pain in the ass and I hear it could clog up my system. Was thinking about STG but heard of people getting slime. What do you guys think of these. And HR what medium do you use. Thanks.

http://seattleshydrospot.com/growing-media/growstones-1-25-cubic-ft-bag.html#ecwid:category=2106964&mode=product&product=10245154

http://seattleshydrospot.com/growing-media/grodan-stonewool-growcubes-medium-1-cf-bag.html#ecwid:category=2106964&mode=product&product=10245147


----------



## Warlock1369 (Oct 28, 2012)

I'm useing the gold lable 80/20 mix in the Titan. But you need the bags that are made for it.


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Oct 28, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Your plants look to be locking out chopstick
> via from a salt buildup or ph. This lockout blocks
> your plant from recieving what it needs to stay
> healthy
> ...


my medium are 6x6x6 inch rock wool in a 8 inch pot filled with hydroton. RW are 1.5-2 inch about table. feed 4x day. im using supernatural aqua bloom and sensi cal mag for flowering. i got ph buffer nutes. im currently using the bluelab meter.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 28, 2012)

FuzzDodger said:


> Anybody have any input on these mediums. Im just getting in to Hydro after years in soil, getting my gear together. Picked up my Titan flo n gro yesterday. was trying to find an ideal medium to use. Hydroton seems like a pain in the ass and I hear it could clog up my system. Was thinking about STG but heard of people getting slime. What do you guys think of these. And HR what medium do you use. Thanks.
> 
> http://seattleshydrospot.com/growing-media/growstones-1-25-cubic-ft-bag.html#ecwid:category=2106964&mode=product&product=10245154
> 
> http://seattleshydrospot.com/growing-media/grodan-stonewool-growcubes-medium-1-cf-bag.html#ecwid:category=2106964&mode=product&product=10245147



I use growdan but looking to switch to canna coco


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 28, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> my medium are 6x6x6 inch rock wool in a 8 inch pot filled with hydroton. RW are 1.5-2 inch about table. feed 4x day. im using supernatural aqua bloom and sensi cal mag for flowering. i got ph buffer nutes. im currently using the bluelab meter.



Shit everything sounds spot on chopstick! Only thing thats sticking out to me is the supernatural..!

I need to research that a bit more


----------



## rsxr0884 (Oct 28, 2012)

Seeing how hysroton is out of business, How many bags of mini cubes would it take to fill 12 buckets on an ebb and flo system? Seems like I would benefit them as well since the cleaning process would be a lot shorter.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 28, 2012)

7 buckets per bag so 2 bags with a bit of leftover


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Oct 29, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Shit everything sounds spot on chopstick! Only thing thats sticking out to me is the supernatural..!
> 
> I need to research that a bit more


here is the updated pic on the batch you told me not to chop. i just chopped it and start a new one.. please help me on this one. im using supernatural. i was using sensi bloom from AN before.


----------



## legallyflying (Oct 29, 2012)

Wow. They look kinda crispy! What ppm where you running? And how long did you "flush" them for?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 29, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> here is the updated pic on the batch you told me not to chop. i just chopped it and start a new one.. please help me on this one. im using supernatural. i was using sensi bloom from AN before.
> View attachment 2390482


Ok this batch was with an and looks burned.....! 
This batch is nute burn! Without being there its kinda
hard to 100% put my thumb on it. Is that white stuff
on that table salt build up or mold? 

And now your on a new line of nutes this supernatural,
and your geting a decent amount of yellowing. At 700
ppm,


man you should keep that table clean and covered, to much dead
leaf matter on the table. And those blocks are covered in algae 
cut some sqaure poly sections to cover the tops to.


your ph is monitored by a blue lab gaurdain and in 5.6 to 6.0
when was the last time you calibrated it? Is the lights blinking
on the 4.0/7.0?


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Oct 29, 2012)

i dont have the guardian, just the bluelab ph meter. I just clean out that table and started new. I have some on a girls on 4x4x4 rw cube. how use i setup my table? should i transfer it to a pot and fill it with hydroton or put 6x6x6 rw on table then cover table with poly then cut hole and set the 4x4x4 rw on top of 6x6x6 rw. I been having really bad luck using rw on flood table. please advise! thanks!


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Oct 29, 2012)

legallyflying said:


> Oh yeah..DE spread over the net pots..good by knats. None, zip, zero.[/QUOTE
> What is DE? I seem to get gnats in the winter. They were gone qall summer but back now


----------



## akpaco (Oct 30, 2012)

HR,

I believe I finally had a float switch go out. Lights are out but I'll check it in the morning. Where would I get one of those to replace it if it is bad? Assuming it is the float switch hopefully I can just replace it. I would buy a new system, sentinel/Flo n gro before I spent $300 on a new C.A.P controller. 

Thanks


----------



## drgreentm (Oct 30, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR,
> 
> I believe I finally had a float switch go out. Lights are out but I'll check it in the morning. Where would I get one of those to replace it if it is bad? Assuming it is the float switch hopefully I can just replace it. I would buy a new system, sentinel/Flo n gro before I spent $300 on a new C.A.P controller.
> 
> Thanks


is it not filling or draining? Mine occasionally did not drain and I would just unplug for a few min's and plug it back in and it would work, don't know if this will work with yours but did on mine. GL hope you sort it.


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Oct 30, 2012)

legallyflying said:


> Wow. They look kinda crispy! What ppm where you running? And how long did you "flush" them for?


e
yup wow!! you know what i mean?? wow! why?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 30, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR,
> 
> I believe I finally had a float switch go out. Lights are out but I'll check it in the morning. Where would I get one of those to replace it if it is bad? Assuming it is the float switch hopefully I can just replace it. I would buy a new system, sentinel/Flo n gro before I spent $300 on a new C.A.P controller.
> 
> Thanks


Look into aqua hub

get the complete kit with a new c box and floats its way better than the cap shit
heres a link
http://www.aquahub.com/store/product68.html


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 30, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> e
> yup wow!! you know what i mean?? wow! why?


 I feel your pain man  but theres so many factors for me to just put my finger on it!
I do know this its a nute burn......! You can thank AN for that... I lost my last run to 
it and will never use it again 

that being said your new run is a bit def. im not to exp with those supernatural nutes.

i can give you a bit of advice that will solve your issues, (stop useing everything you are
using and get with a more simple feeding program. A safe and easy to use! No guess work
Just follow the resipe for sucess. Heres a link
http://www.technaflora.com/Products
this is a win all in hydro! Might be a bit less agressive and yield a bit less but who cares.
its cheap and theres not much to it.
heres a link to the feeding chart
http://www.technaflora.com/downloads/USA2009.pdf


----------



## legallyflying (Oct 30, 2012)

The aqua hub kits are very high quality and reasonably priced. I own three of them.


----------



## Sencha (Oct 30, 2012)

shnkrmn said:


> Wait, what? Hydroton is no longer being made? So my supply is increasing in value???? ;D I have at least 100 gallons of ton. Much of it is mixed with sunleaves grow rocks. Since I don't veg long I rarely have the kind of root balls that are hard to shake clean.


This is not true. The Hydroton that we know, will not be available. There are two new clay mines owned by Atami; makers of B'cuzz nutes, mining this shit as we speak. I have some of the new hydroton already. It's just a little different color.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 30, 2012)

Sencha said:


> This is not true. The Hydroton that we know, will not be available. There are two new clay mines owned by Atami; makers of B'cuzz nutes, mining this shit as we speak. I have some of the new hydroton already. It's just a little different color.


Yah its called hydro corn


----------



## dbkick (Oct 30, 2012)

Roks!!!!! errr sorry, that's not roks!
Roks!


----------



## dbkick (Oct 30, 2012)

I have a general noob question about ebb and grow monster size of course. why can't I run one line for fill and drain? my res is over 20 feet from the controller and I'd like to run two different systems with the two lines I have in place already without adding two more.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Oct 30, 2012)

dbkick said:


> I have a general noob question about ebb and grow monster size of course. why can't I run one line for fill and drain? my res is over 20 feet from the controller and I'd like to run two different systems with the two lines I have in place already without adding two more.


If your res was lower than your buckets. Then it would work just make sure you have a anti syphon hole in place!
and use gravity to drain back. 20ft might be a trick to set it up lol


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Oct 30, 2012)

dbkick said:


> I have a general noob question about ebb and grow monster size of course. why can't I run one line for fill and drain? my res is over 20 feet from the controller and I'd like to run two different systems with the two lines I have in place already without adding two more.


U probably can. It will just take a longer time to fill.


----------



## Warlock1369 (Oct 31, 2012)

Db was it you I covered this with? 1 line is fine but you will need 2 pumps. Time will take longer. And a bigger risk of damaging pumps if something gets in the now closed line. I'm 20' away but wouldn't use 1 hose. Unless I replaced it every grow.


----------



## legallyflying (Oct 31, 2012)

1/4" of slope for foot is the standard slope needed for proper drainage. Sooo.. the top of your res when fulll needs to be 5" lower than your table. 20'??! where is your res, in your neighbors garage? LOL


----------



## CaliMackdaddy (Oct 31, 2012)

With rockwool and as few plants as possible whats my best option? I was thinking about doing 4 plants under a 600W and vegging for 2-4 weeks in the 8x8x8 Blocks, With a special bucket system drip to drain and recirculate. Hows this sound, is the 8x8x8 blocks overkill? Might i add that im gonna run this in a 3x3 tent.


----------



## dbkick (Oct 31, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> Db was it you I covered this with? 1 line is fine but you will need 2 pumps. Time will take longer. And a bigger risk of damaging pumps if something gets in the now closed line. I'm 20' away but wouldn't use 1 hose. Unless I replaced it every grow.


I'm 20 feet away and thru 2 walls so its kind of a pain in the ass to replace tubing, I just run a really high h2o2 thru it in between runs. I think you and I did talk about this but I could only remember you mentioning an obstruction causing problems. And yes HR I had already considered the "special" anti-syphon fitting on both ends. I think I'm gonna just go another route and run one system on the two lines as it's meant to be.Thanks for the input boys!


----------



## legallyflying (Oct 31, 2012)

CaliMackdaddy said:


> With rockwool and as few plants as possible whats my best option? I was thinking about doing 4 plants under a 600W and vegging for 2-4 weeks in the 8x8x8 Blocks, With a special bucket system drip to drain and recirculate. Hows this sound, is the 8x8x8 blocks overkill? Might i add that im gonna run this in a 3x3 tent.


3x3 tent. Your best option is one plant or a bigger tent


----------



## CaliMackdaddy (Oct 31, 2012)

legallyflying said:


> 3x3 tent. Your best option is one plant or a bigger tent


Ive done several runs in coco and soil with 4 plants without any problems, could i do the same with large rw cubes?


----------



## legallyflying (Nov 1, 2012)

I don't see why not. For that small I would just use smaller RW cubes (like maybe 2") and a bunch of hydroton in a big tray. You can make a flood table for next to nothing.


----------



## BloodshotGrin (Nov 1, 2012)

I have clips in rapid rooter plugs. What is a good way to pre veg before going in to my Ebb & Gro? This will be my 4th grow but 1st in the E&G


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## Warlock1369 (Nov 1, 2012)

Rapid rooters don't realy break down like other plugs. I would just place them in RW cubes and fill the space if there is any with extra RW. And your off.


----------



## dbkick (Nov 1, 2012)

BloodshotGrin said:


> I have clips in rapid rooter plugs. What is a good way to pre veg before going in to my Ebb & Gro? This will be my 4th grow but 1st in the E&G


this is my first run in ebb and grow also. what I did was root in rapid rooter, transfer to 4 inch rw cube with the hole in it(rapid rooter drops right in) . then I put that in a 5 inch netpot in dwc, I thought I'd have time before the roots broke the rockwool cube but some shit came up and my roots ended up a foot and a half long or so, I just buried those carefully in the dyna grow roks in the inner buckets and it went without a problem, I got a little wilt but nothing major.


----------



## dbkick (Nov 1, 2012)

although I'm thinking of doing a couple small flood tables starting with 6 inch rockwool cubes and then stacking on 12 inch cubes then into buckets.unless someone tells me different in this nice thread.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 1, 2012)

dbkick said:


> although I'm thinking of doing a couple small flood tables starting with 6 inch rockwool cubes and then stacking on 12 inch cubes then into buckets.unless someone tells me different in this nice thread.


Db i would run tables to veg in 6x6 hugos and then move to your monster buckets and fill the rest in with growdan loose
fill, much cheaper and easy to work with.


----------



## dbkick (Nov 1, 2012)

but I already got these silly ass silica roks. pricey too, so you're saying use no hydroton or roks at all??


----------



## dbkick (Nov 1, 2012)

I guess my problem was I just wasn't ready to pop them into the ebb monster, I suppose I can just do 6 inch cubes and then into rok, I screwed my schedule all up this time and that's what threw me off, hell I could just go from rapid rooter to the buckets now.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 1, 2012)

I say this... Fuck rock or rok lol tron clay its all bs. Growdan or coco nothing else


----------



## Warlock1369 (Nov 1, 2012)

dbkick said:


> although I'm thinking of doing a couple small flood tables starting with 6 inch rockwool cubes and then stacking on 12 inch cubes then into buckets.unless someone tells me different in this nice thread.


The problem with stacking will be placing them in the buckets without ripping all the roots. If that is the way you want just go right to 6-8-12" cubes. To start with.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 1, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> The problem with stacking will be placing them in the buckets without ripping all the roots. If that is the way you want just go right to 6-8-12" cubes. To start with.


Now thats a killer idea veg them in 12s


----------



## Warlock1369 (Nov 1, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I say this... Fuck rock or rok lol tron clay its all bs. Growdan or coco nothing else


I agree. Just ton sucks. But I'm loving the 80/20. So are the plants. Moved a 2' tall 3' wide plant and it never moved or stressed. Couldn't do that with hydroton.


----------



## FuzzDodger (Nov 1, 2012)

Did you switch to the technaflora yourself. I remember you telling me you had AN dialed in.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 1, 2012)

I had both of them dailed but AN keeps sending out bad batchs and fing up everybodys grows!
then say you can return for 100% money back.... But shit they going to replace my burn to fuck plant 
hell no. Techno is good shit but canna is the future for me


----------



## FuzzDodger (Nov 1, 2012)

I used canna when I was running soil with great results. Since I moved on to Hydro I've been looking at Heavy 16. But I like the idea of running some H2O2 to keep shit clean. Manufacturer told me that would be no good. was wondering if anybody have used Drip Clean from H&G.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 2, 2012)

FuzzDodger said:


> I used canna when I was running soil with great results. Since I moved on to Hydro I've been looking at Heavy 16. But I like the idea of running some H2O2 to keep shit clean. Manufacturer told me that would be no good. was wondering if anybody have used Drip Clean from H&G.


I have plans to but never used it.


----------



## sonofdust (Nov 2, 2012)

FuzzDodger said:


> But I like the idea of running some H2O2 to keep shit clean.
> 
> FuzzDodger; What % of H2O2 and how much per gallon do you run in your units.
> Thanks.
> sod.


----------



## Warlock1369 (Nov 2, 2012)

FuzzDodger said:


> I used canna when I was running soil with great results. Since I moved on to Hydro I've been looking at Heavy 16. But I like the idea of running some H2O2 to keep shit clean. Manufacturer told me that would be no good. was wondering if anybody have used Drip Clean from H&G.


I'm running heavy 16. Never ran h2o2 all the time. Didn't see a problem when I used to for a week. But now I'm just running bennies.


----------



## CaliMackdaddy (Nov 2, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> I'm running heavy 16. Never ran h2o2 all the time. Didn't see a problem when I used to for a week. But now I'm just running bennies.


Heavy 16 is some pricey stuff, is it accually worth it?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 2, 2012)

CaliMackdaddy said:


> Heavy 16 is some pricey stuff, is it accually worth it?


If you compare heavy. With other brands you would see its not really that pricey.
but from what friends tell me its good stuff! I have run it but with minimal results.


----------



## Warlock1369 (Nov 2, 2012)

It costs alot upfront. Bit with less extras needed it's cheeper in the long run. Last 2 grows been running 3/4 and going 2 weeks. Adding 1/4 after a week. Plants are happy and 1 4L BUD kit lasts 2 grows or more in 55 gallon res. And don't remember the last time I bought veg.


----------



## CaliMackdaddy (Nov 2, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> It costs alot upfront. Bit with less extras needed it's cheeper in the long run. Last 2 grows been running 3/4 and going 2 weeks. Adding 1/4 after a week. Plants are happy and 1 4L BUD kit lasts 2 grows or more in 55 gallon res. And don't remember the last time I bought veg.


the Rec dosage on the chart says 15mL of each A&B, and even more in mid bloom, are you saying thats overkill then?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 2, 2012)

CaliMackdaddy said:


> the Rec dosage on the chart says 15mL of each A&B, and even more in mid bloom, are you saying thats overkill then?


Alway start at 3/4 the rec dose. Some brands like AN go 1/2 
feeding charts are always a bit hot.


----------



## akpaco (Nov 2, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> If you compare heavy. With other brands you would see its not really that pricey.
> but from what friends tell me its good stuff! I have run it but with minimal results.


I used Heavy 16 when I first started with my Ebb & Flo. I used it prior in soil with good results.. I personally thought that the Prime was making my res a mess..


----------



## Warlock1369 (Nov 2, 2012)

I only use heavy 16 veg and bud. Liquid karma, armor coat and N-cal-mag from (grow more), azos and tea from (Xtream gardening) and that's it. Couldn't be happyer.


----------



## CaliMackdaddy (Nov 2, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> I only use heavy 16 veg and bud. Liquid karma, armor coat and N-cal-mag from (grow more), azos and tea from (Xtream gardening) and that's it. Couldn't be happyer.


Never heard of using azos in a hydro system, what are the benefits from using that over other beneficials?


----------



## georgeforeman (Nov 3, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> When i i was using tron i would set the block to where the top of the block was even with the surface of the tron
> you dont want to place it deep cause it waists medium! Roots grow out and down better than up!


what are you using since you not using tron?


----------



## dbkick (Nov 4, 2012)

Warlock1369 said:


> The problem with stacking will be placing them in the buckets without ripping all the roots. If that is the way you want just go right to 6-8-12" cubes. To start with.


I forgot we were talking about this :/
you know.......I never really thought about that. I guess I was thinking when they were smaller the entire rockwool cube would have to be submersed in the flood. is t his not the case? I can put say a seedling in the 12 inch rockwool and flood to whatever the table is ? I know its not 12 inches. but flooding the lower part it wicks up ? I've never done this and have no idea.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 4, 2012)

georgeforeman said:


> what are you using since you not using tron?



Growdan blocks and growdan loose loose fill


----------



## georgeforeman (Nov 4, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Growdan blocks and growdan loose loose fill


thanks, that is what i figured, but could not remember reading it. I have been using stg deluge for awhile and have had good success, but it is difficult to preveg and veg for these. I recently started to preveg in the 6x6 hugos and the plants love it. I want to try out the loose fill next. Does the loose fill provide good support for the plants and how often do you water in veg and flower?


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Nov 4, 2012)

I should move to grodan. Ton weighs, well, a ton. Whats your flood schedule like in veg and flower hr?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 4, 2012)

Hey folks im gunna be hit or miss for a few days! Heading out for a white tail hunt 
will have cell service every now and again to check up on the thread. So be safe and
keep it green.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 4, 2012)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> I should move to grodan. Ton weighs, well, a ton. Whats your flood schedule like in veg and flower hr?


X2 during veg and x3 right before bloom and through bloom.


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Nov 5, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> X2 during veg and x3 right before bloom and through bloom.


Thanks you hellraizer and all ya for the support. The this around, things are good pretty good. Before I was feeding 1x a day in flower and bacteria grew in my rock wool caused root rot! 3x a day now and no problem so far.


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Nov 5, 2012)

Is it good to cover up my trays like that? Now I thinking it might molds.


----------



## akpaco (Nov 5, 2012)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> I should move to grodan. Ton weighs, well, a ton. Whats your flood schedule like in veg and flower hr?


Switching to grodan for sure!! Not sure if you ever checked it out but go to there website and check out there videos. There's a comparison grow with tron, tron/cubes and straight cubes.. Pretty interesting!


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Nov 5, 2012)

akpaco said:


> Switching to grodan for sure!! Not sure if you ever checked it out but go to there website and check out there videos. There's a comparison grow with tron, tron/cubes and straight cubes.. Pretty interesting!


Ive never tried it, but i have growdan chunks here. The clay is way too heavy. Plus rinsing it gets old.


----------



## legallyflying (Nov 6, 2012)

I might check out hydro rocks. They seem a little more porous plus the are not fucking round! That is the biggest drawback of hydroton, it rolls all over the damn place !


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 6, 2012)

@chop dude that look great  dont trip on whats brewing under the poly plastic 
you need to stop that light from geting in there and it looks like you did it.


----------



## Chopsticks33 (Nov 6, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> @chop dude that look great  dont trip on whats brewing under the poly plastic
> you need to stop that light from geting in there and it looks like you did it.


Thanks! Ill be changing res every 5-7 day and flush every 2 week. Rite now first week, 800ppm 5.8-61 ph.I hope this goes well!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 6, 2012)

Chopsticks33 said:


> Thanks! Ill be changing res every 5-7 day and flush every 2 week. Rite now first week, 800ppm 5.8-61 ph.I hope this goes well!


Its looks all right so im hopefull!


im out friends il be back in a week or so! Stay safe


----------



## drgreentm (Nov 6, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Its looks all right so im hopefull!
> 
> 
> im out friends il be back in a week or so! Stay safe


stay safe on the hunt man, bag a big one


----------



## Mithrandir420 (Nov 6, 2012)

I have never had an issue with hydroton. It works fantastic, can be reused, and whenever I am tired of washing it I remind myself, "It beats the hell out of working at the help desk!" (Which is where I used to work)

But I have my washing system down. I rarely have hydroton on the floor. Also, I throw out some of it every harvest... the stuff so attached to the roots it won't come off with a vigorous shaking.


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Nov 6, 2012)

Lotsa veteran growers in this thread.


----------



## akpaco (Nov 6, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Its looks all right so im hopefull!
> 
> 
> im out friends il be back in a week or so! Stay safe



Good luck bro!!


----------



## legallyflying (Nov 7, 2012)

You must be a magician mithrandir as everyone that I know that has significant amounts of
Hydroton hates the stuff.


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Nov 7, 2012)

legallyflying said:


> You must be a magician mithrandir as everyone that I know that has significant amounts of
> Hydroton hates the stuff.


I hate it. Im going rockwool next round. Just hope i transition easily.


----------



## drgreentm (Nov 7, 2012)

im using the fabric inserts in the titan flo n gro system with 100% perlite hoping i can trade out the tron for some lighter, cheaper medium. hate ton and hate RW as well or i would run that but my hempys grow faster and stronger than my plants in ton so im giving it a go lol.


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Nov 7, 2012)

drgreentm said:


> im using the fabric inserts in the titan flo n gro system with 100% perlite hoping i can trade out the tron for some lighter, cheaper medium. hate ton and hate RW as well or i would run that but my hempys grow faster and stronger than my plants in ton so im giving it a go lol.


Where are these inserts? Coco wouldnt be bad.


----------



## akpaco (Nov 7, 2012)

drgreentm said:


> im using the fabric inserts in the titan flo n gro system with 100% perlite hoping i can trade out the tron for some lighter, cheaper medium. hate ton and hate RW as well or i would run that but my hempys grow faster and stronger than my plants in ton so im giving it a go lol.



How do you like your Titan system?


----------



## georgeforeman (Nov 13, 2012)

what do you guys do with the 4x4x4 rockwool blocks after they have lots of roots coming out of the bottom. I do not have ebb and grow buckets available for transplant yet and i do not want all the roots to get air-pruned.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 13, 2012)

georgeforeman said:


> what do you guys do with the 4x4x4 rockwool blocks after they have lots of roots coming out of the bottom. I do not have ebb and grow buckets available for transplant yet and i do not want all the roots to get air-pruned.



Trim them! It Won't hurt them......


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Nov 13, 2012)

Omg youre alive? Gonna switch to rw so i need your support.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 14, 2012)

Alive yes lol but still on the hhunt here in Kansas


----------



## legallyflying (Nov 14, 2012)

Your in Kansas? Ugggh.


----------



## akpaco (Nov 15, 2012)

HR

I was reading through Homebrewer's thread AN connoisseur vs Dyna-gro. I noticed you posted in there quite a bit. Why I was looking is because of what we talked about before. I think this GMB Ph perfect is to hot and I'm really seeing it this grow. I'm almost 6th week of bud and I'm running about 950ppm's and my plants do not look as good as I would like.So I was looking for alternatives. I know your using Canna now but did you ever run a grow with Dyna-Grow? Can't say I don't like the idea of 1 jug of nutes. Just curious what your thoughts are? Thanks


----------



## legallyflying (Nov 15, 2012)

And another side bar...there are too new nute brands that people are raving about. My perlite Hempy friend mentions heavy 16 every damn time I see him...every time. Also, people really seem to like the current culture nutrients. Really concentrated, designed for water culture and no dyes. 

Anyone have any experience? I had terrific results with DM last run, better than PBP.


----------



## Mithrandir420 (Nov 15, 2012)

legallyflying said:


> You must be a magician mithrandir as everyone that I know that has significant amounts of
> Hydroton hates the stuff.


I have containers set up in stages, I have a bathroom dedicated to cleaning my equipment, including hydroton. I know how long to soak in bleach solution, I know how long it takes to remove the bleach. I have washing containers set up specifically for the task. These days it's mostly time intensive. Also, I am not running a warehouse. I'm running two 3'x6' E&F tables. If I had to wash 5 - 10 times the amount I would probably be thinking about rockwool. Or I would hire a hydroton washing monkey.

I don't hate it, but I don't like it either. But like I said, it beats the hell out of working at a help desk, or digging ditches. I just try to remind myself of that whenever I get frustrated at the work.


----------



## akpaco (Nov 15, 2012)

legallyflying said:


> And another side bar...there are too new nute brands that people are raving about. My perlite Hempy friend mentions heavy 16 every damn time I see him...every time. Also, people really seem to like the current culture nutrients. Really concentrated, designed for water culture and no dyes.
> 
> Anyone have any experience? I had terrific results with DM last run, better than PBP.



Legallyflying,

I used Heavy 16 A&B with Prime in soil and had good results. Switched to Ebb & Gro and stopped because I believe the Prime is super dirty in the res. If you were to use just the A&B I think it would be fine because I believe there is no organic matter in them.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 15, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR
> 
> I was reading through Homebrewer's thread AN connoisseur vs Dyna-gro. I noticed you posted in there quite a bit. Why I was looking is because of what we talked about before. I think this GMB Ph perfect is to hot and I'm really seeing it this grow. I'm almost 6th week of bud and I'm running about 950ppm's and my plants do not look as good as I would like.So I was looking for alternatives. I know your using Canna now but did you ever run a grow with Dyna-Grow? Can't say I don't like the idea of 1 jug of nutes. Just curious what your thoughts are? Thanks



Yah the dyna gro was ok nice plants with good
growth but lacked the push in weight!
the heavy is outstanding in drain to waist! BUt
dirty in recycle! So far canna and bc nutes are
safe and good push. 

On another note I'm going to be testing aptus
sups in con with canna


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 15, 2012)

legallyflying said:


> Your in Kansas? Ugggh.


Yah other than the deer this place sucks lol


----------



## legallyflying (Nov 15, 2012)

Grim dude. Grim


----------



## akpaco (Nov 15, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Yah the dyna gro was ok nice plants with good
> growth but lacked the push in weight!
> the heavy is outstanding in drain to waist! BUt
> dirty in recycle! So far canna and bc nutes are
> ...


Thanks for your response! I was just looking at the Aptus website, looks interesting. But it also looks like a lot of $tuff.. Maybe I'll give Canna a run this time around. What would you recommend other then aqua vega a & b? Keep in mind I don't want to use anything additional unless absolutely necessary. Thanks!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 15, 2012)

Use there base and the pk but no
boost or zyme, also use the 
ryhzotonic, I use the bc magical
for cal mag. For a late pk booster
i might start using moab

The aptus is alot but I'm only going
to use the fossilitator to start off, one
250ml bottle will last many grows so
its worth it.


----------



## akpaco (Nov 15, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Use there base and the pk but no
> boost or zyme, also use the
> ryhzotonic, I use the bc magical
> for cal mag. For a late pk booster
> ...


Thanks HR

Do you use the veg into the second week of 12/12 as they recommend? Thanks as always!! When you coming home?


----------



## legallyflying (Nov 16, 2012)

Not to answer for hello sizer (that is your name now because my phone insists on calling you that) 

I'm general it's best to have a very smooth transition into flowering. For the first week post flip I'm running standard veg nutes. Then I top off with flower nutes through week 2. Then I typically hit them with phoshoload and dump everything a day later. 

MJ needs ALLOT of nitrogen, especially during the stretch. It will use it all and stock it up. Nitrogen isn't the death blow to flower production and yield, one could argue that making the plant scavenge nitrogen is more detrimental. I hold this theory tht your nitrogen concentrations in weeks 1-3 will dictate when your lowers start dropping. I use PBP cal mag pretty much till week 6 and it has decent N levels. Then I really cut everything down in week 6 and hit them with MOAB and light base nutes (and liquid karma). 

Anywho.. 
Flip to 12/12 slowly transition away from veg nutes, keep your MH bulbs in and your night time temperature up. Then go full on flower mode in week 3. 

Or at least that is my 2 cents from all the reading I've done and data I have collected


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 16, 2012)

akpaco said:


> Thanks HR
> 
> Do you use the veg into the second week of 12/12 as they recommend? Thanks as always!! When you coming home?


They claim it helps but I'm not using it.
at some point I will test there theory 
and validate legals thoughts on it to.


----------



## akpaco (Nov 16, 2012)

All input is appreciated!! I've usually switched to 12/12 and switched my nutes right away.. Haven't had any problems. Although the theory makes sense and I've read that a little extra N in flower doesn't hurt.


----------



## georgeforeman (Nov 23, 2012)

alright, got my 4x4x4 cubes transplanted into the ebb and grow with mini cubes. Everything look right? The cubes go about 2" above the flood level.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 23, 2012)

georgeforeman said:


> alright, got my 4x4x4 cubes transplanted into the ebb and grow with mini cubes. Everything look right? The cubes go about 2" above the flood level.



I set the 4x4 cube about 1 in from the top of the bucket, giving lots of room for root development
and theres no worrie cause growdan wicks real good. I would move them up a bit


----------



## georgeforeman (Nov 24, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I set the 4x4 cube about 1 in from the top of the bucket, giving lots of room for root development
> and theres no worrie cause growdan wicks real good. I would move them up a bit


do you have your buckets above the floor? i keep my on 2x4 for better drainage, so i am losing 1.5" of flood height.
so far, the rockwool stays a lot heavier than the sure to grow. I am flooding every 12 hrs.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 24, 2012)

georgeforeman said:


> do you have your buckets above the floor? i keep my on 2x4 for better drainage, so i am losing 1.5" of flood height.
> so far, the rockwool stays a lot heavier than the sure to grow. I am flooding every 12 hrs.



Yes buckets are raised, but remember this even though you loose flood hiegth you dont need
to plant low! Why cause growdan wicks so good, and will soak to the top.


----------



## BLOCKER (Nov 28, 2012)

hey guys i've read the full thread, 

first time grow ive made some huge mistakes..

I have 6 plants in ebb n flood buckets, the clones were 2 inches big in 1 inch rockwool cubes when put in the buckets, the bottom 1/4 of the cubes are below the flood line, when i got them they were starving, so anyway here where i went wrong.

ionic nutes:

1st 2days i didnt add nutes only the green fuse grow thinking they were nutes... at half strength, then relizeing what i'd done i miss calculated the size of my res by double giving the clones full strength nutes for 2 days burning them to a chrisp, whilst waitng for my calibration fluid.. then when it came i reduced it by half, ppm 1200.. this was still a little high but something was still not quit right, i have the nutradip tri meter my ph was reading 5.8, so i thought that was fine but i callibrated any way.. guess what i didnt relize the caps got to come off.. hey 8.0 i could have died..

this is my first grow but boy what the hell happened, its been 2 weeks today since i got them.. ppm 1000 still a little too high i believe, ph 5.8, res temps stable at 19 degrees, 4 plants at 10inches one at 8 inches, the one thats in bad shap at 5 inches..

should my ec be at a constant 1.2 ? as heath has it?, is it worth saving the one that nearly died?, it is 1 inch rockwool/hydroton..

Also my lights on at 6am 15min flood at 8am, 2nd flood 2pm, 3rd flood at 8 pm, they seem to be doing alright.. any advice would be helpful. i will post some pics today.. oh yeh its a 5' x 5' tent, because i was in a rush to set it up i had to keep the brain in the tent because i didnt think of cutting into the bottom of the tent.. will change it next round.. doh


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 28, 2012)

BLOCKER said:


> hey guys i've read the full thread,
> 
> first time grow ive made some huge mistakes..
> 
> ...



Change your flood cycles to evry 4 hr during lights on. Sorry for the rough start man! Dont know much about ionic other
than 1.2 is to high for that size plant, 800ppm to 900 is where i would want it.


----------



## legallyflying (Nov 28, 2012)

1200 PPM holly shit dog! 

I'm going to say even lower is better for plants that are that small. I typically stay under 600 until the plants are at least a foot tall. 900 when they are 2-3 feet and before flower. 1000K all the way till week 4, then 2 weeks of 1400 or so.. then drop way down. Like 300 the last 2 weeks. 

It varies by plant, but trust me when I say that it is WAY better to underfeed than over feed... as you have found out.


----------



## BLOCKER (Nov 28, 2012)

well the clones first two days of feed was 2700ppm im really suprised there still alive

thanks guys, yeh i made a right mess of them for sure, ppm at 800 now, feeds every 4hrs during lights on.. im away for 2/3 days so hope everything will be well, all my new growth from the past week is good with a slight tip burn, the old stuff i basically killed is just getting burried by the new growth.. im hard water not sure what my ppm is from that but do i add that on to ppm or take it away?, should my ppm be slightly higher if ppm high from tap water?


----------



## legallyflying (Nov 28, 2012)

You subtract your base water ppm from your actual I still think your way to high  Clones need like 300-400 ppm of nutrients


----------



## BLOCKER (Nov 28, 2012)

so what will happen?, because there is nothing i can do now for 3 days?, will the growth be slow?, im hoping my water is 400ppm


----------



## legallyflying (Nov 28, 2012)

you better not hope your water is 400. Jesus, you would probably have stalagmites coming out of your facuet with that many minerals in your water. LOL


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 28, 2012)

My water is 120 out of the tap  400 is crazy high


----------



## drgreentm (Nov 28, 2012)

Mines 200 and that's above average I think, I always bring the entire mix up to desired ppm.


----------



## hxvoc (Nov 29, 2012)

having an issue with clones not stretching when put in flower. Doing a zero veg op and I thought it was safe to run clones at full strength if you were using HID. Im using maxibloom at 7g per gallon. Only half the clones take off after a week of no growth.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 29, 2012)

hxvoc said:


> having an issue with clones not stretching when put in flower. Doing a zero veg op and I thought it was safe to run clones at full strength if you were using HID. Im using maxibloom at 7g per gallon. Only half the clones take off after a week of no growth.


Are all the plants the same strain? I do zero veg to but look for strains that stretch x2 or x3 time the size at flip!
maxi is a sub par nute and i wouldnt use it in flower!


----------



## drgreentm (Nov 29, 2012)

hxvoc said:


> having an issue with clones not stretching when put in flower. Doing a zero veg op and I thought it was safe to run clones at full strength if you were using HID. Im using maxibloom at 7g per gallon. Only half the clones take off after a week of no growth.


if you have a strain that tends to not stretch much in flower let them veg until first signs of new grow after transplant from cloner, this ensures the first week (stretch period) in flower is not consumed by shocked clones. I had this same problem going into zero veg and found letting the plants recoupe a bit before putting them under 12/12 yielded the best results.


----------



## hxvoc (Nov 29, 2012)

thanks guys. I am running 2 different strains and it seams like the querkle im running is doing it more than the other. I was just thinking about it being such a slow vegger. I think this is my problem and I may have to do away with the strain for now running zero veg. My other strain is ppp and it seems to do ok but i have to usually burn them a little to keep the nute sucking querkles happy. 

@hellraizer. What do you think is so wrong with maxibloom? I thought you were a big fan of the lucas formula. I read the kiss thread and people are having great success with tap water running maxi. 

Just gonna run the ppp's next time and seem how they run.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 29, 2012)

hxvoc said:


> thanks guys. I am running 2 different strains and it seams like the querkle im running is doing it more than the other. I was just thinking about it being such a slow vegger. I think this is my problem and I may have to do away with the strain for now running zero veg. My other strain is ppp and it seems to do ok but i have to usually burn them a little to keep the nute sucking querkles happy.
> 
> @hellraizer. What do you think is so wrong with maxibloom? I thought you were a big fan of the lucas formula. I read the kiss thread and people are having great success with tap water running maxi.
> 
> Just gonna run the ppp's next time and seem how they run.



Theres a few nute companys you can use for lucas, and i found AN grow/micro/bloom to be the best at 5/8/16


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 29, 2012)

drgreentm said:


> if you have a strain that tends to not stretch much in flower let them veg until first signs of new grow after transplant from cloner, this ensures the first week (stretch period) in flower is not consumed by shocked clones.. I had this same problem going into zero veg and found letting the plants recoupe a bit before putting them under 12/12 yielded the best results.



Interesting drg i think im going to try this here in 10days when my clones are rooted!
so just enough veg to see some new growth right ?


----------



## drgreentm (Nov 29, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Interesting drg i think im going to try this here in 10days when my clones are rooted!
> so just enough veg to see some new growth right ?


yup then as soon as you can see some visible growth flip them, you watch they will take off like a rocket lol. the WW i grew was the worst, if i threw a fresh clone in flower they would end up like 8" lol but i dont use large clones ether. even now i have started stepping my plants down to 12/12, i veg 24/7 then when i put them under the 1k's i set the timer to 18/6 for like 5 days then 12/12.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 30, 2012)

Sounds like a plan, worth a try


----------



## drgreentm (Nov 30, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Sounds like a plan, worth a try


Are you cloning in RW then transplanting to loose RW?


----------



## BLOCKER (Nov 30, 2012)

after some talks about my nutradip trimeter, it measures in ec not ppm, i know heath robinson does 1.2ec all the way through his grows but his is fast circulating system, im assuming its that low because they are constantly under water and just grab the nutes they would like, this system is different so my question is.. 
In this system. what ec levels should i aim for:

clone:
veg:
flower:

thankyou guys, well after working out im not at 800ppm im actually at 1.8 ec 5 of my plants doing ok, 1 still seems to be burning abit, ofcourse i need to alter again, will do it tommorow , man my luck sucks.. please help experts, i will get this thing right


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 30, 2012)

drgreentm said:


> Are you cloning in RW then transplanting to loose RW?


Yep...... Seems to be the fastest way with no stall!


----------



## drgreentm (Nov 30, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Yep...... Seems to be the fastest way with no stall!


Ya then you may have no issue with not vegging, I totally spaced out you where growing without ton.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Nov 30, 2012)

drgreentm said:


> Ya then you may have no issue with not vegging, I totally spaced out you where growing without ton.


Well i still think you might of hit on something! So its worth a few day to try it out.


----------



## drgreentm (Nov 30, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Well i still think you might of hit on something! So its worth a few day to try it out.


True, veg never hurts, I have seen single cola plants almost 2' tall just with all the branches eliminated with a huge cola. Deffinetly let us know.


----------



## tenthirty (Dec 1, 2012)

^^Yup, what he said.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Dec 1, 2012)

drgreentm said:


> True, veg never hurts, I have seen single cola plants almost 2' tall just with all the branches eliminated with a huge cola. Deffinetly let us know.



Will do.....


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Dec 2, 2012)

Veg a bit. I think a 600 can penetrate a two foot cola pretty good. Plus if you lolli it shouldnt need the bottom third anyway. Ill watch this for details.


----------



## akpaco (Dec 3, 2012)

HR,

Going to plant tomorrow and am going to use the cubes this run... So just to confirm you use straight cubes? And was thinking about maybe adding a silicon supp like protek? Rhino skin is to expensive. But was told today that any supp other then AN won't uptake using PH perfect g/m/b I kind of thought that was bullshit?

Thanks!


----------



## georgeforeman (Dec 3, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Yes buckets are raised, but remember this even though you loose flood hiegth you dont need
> to plant low! Why cause growdan wicks so good, and will soak to the top.


i saw in another thread that you only flood about 2" up. Is that 2" up from the bottom of the inner bucket? Right now i have my buckets raised 1.5" above the floor so the inner bucket gets flooded 4" high. Should i raise them up even more since rockwool wicks so good. Seems like wicking would be better than submerging/soaking.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Dec 3, 2012)

akpaco said:


> HR,
> 
> Going to plant tomorrow and am going to use the cubes this run... So just to confirm you use straight cubes? And was thinking about maybe adding a silicon supp like protek? Rhino skin is to expensive. But was told today that any supp other then AN won't uptake using PH perfect g/m/b I kind of thought that was bullshit?
> 
> Thanks!


I got to ask bro who told you that? Pm me about it. Best results in a ebb was with cubes, but soak them for 30 min in 5.5 ph
water. On the silica, protek is the only one i would use! Rhino will muck up your res bad. Using silica can cause some ph issues
but if your still on ph perfect your ok.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Dec 3, 2012)

georgeforeman said:


> i saw in another thread that you only flood about 2" up. Is that 2" up from the bottom of the inner bucket? Right now i have my buckets raised 1.5" above the floor so the inner bucket gets flooded 4" high. Should i raise them up even more since rockwool wicks so good. Seems like wicking would be better than submerging/soaking.


Hey george the 2in is how high to raise your buckets, doing this lowers the flood level but allows your buckets to drain out
better. Theres no issue with lowering flood level if your using growdan, cause of the wick abilitys.


----------



## akpaco (Dec 6, 2012)

HR,

I transplanted into the grodan cubes.. I have my lights on 24 hours right now and I have the timer set to water twice.. You said you water twice in veg? Is that on an 18/6 schedule? Not sure if I should go to 3 times in 24 or switch to 18/6 and water twice.. I kind of like running 24 hours the first week to try to get them going. What do you think?

Thanks


----------



## hellraizer30 (Dec 6, 2012)

I have seen zero difference in 18/6 or 24 but yah you want to flood less to make them roots search 
for a bit, then switch to x3


----------



## akpaco (Dec 6, 2012)

Thanks bro!!!

When you veg do you run your lights 18/6 also? I'll switch to 18/6 tomorrow and keep it 2x a day....


----------



## hellraizer30 (Dec 6, 2012)

I do like 18/6 to save in power costs


----------



## akpaco (Dec 6, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I do like 18/6 to save in power costs



It definitely does help!!


----------



## akpaco (Dec 6, 2012)

HR,

Sorry to be a pain in the ass!! So I've been transplanted for a couple days now and the tops of my plants look a little droopy and slightly pale. Just appears to be the new growth on top. Any thoughts? Going to switch to 18/6 tonight watering 2x.. Thanks as always!!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Dec 7, 2012)

Just as a refference what is the ph? And ppms?


----------



## akpaco (Dec 7, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Just as a refference what is the ph? And ppms?


Soaked the cubes in 5.5 then transplanted and filled res with ph perfect g/m/b,sensi cal,aquashield and root excelurator. ppm's are 750 and ph is about 6.3. But I am using ph perfect?

Thanks


----------



## hellraizer30 (Dec 7, 2012)

Hmm sounds spot on man! Might give it a day or so then if things are still off, do a flush and start over with new
nutes


----------



## legallyflying (Dec 7, 2012)

Hey HR,
i saw you mentioned you thought that protek will cause PH issues. Are you talking over time? I know several growers that use protek silica as PH up to get the right ph after they mix their base nutrients. 

I have done it and it works pretty damn well really. Just throwing it out there.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Dec 7, 2012)

legallyflying said:


> Hey HR,
> i saw you mentioned you thought that protek will cause PH issues. Are you talking over time? I know several growers that use protek silica as PH up to get the right ph after they mix their base nutrients.
> 
> I have done it and it works pretty damn well really. Just throwing it out there.



That was more targeted toward rhino skin, protek being the better of the two with less to zero issues.


----------



## legallyflying (Dec 7, 2012)

Yeah. I saw that rhino skin. Must be made out of imported rhinoceros foreskin for the price they want for it.


----------



## hxvoc (Dec 8, 2012)

Im getting rust spots again. Doesnt matter what fertilizer I use or what a lucas or KISS method. Every damn run I have rusty leaves that just curl up and die. I can start low and raise it. Start at full strength. medium strength, doesnt matter. Rust spots every single damn time. Almost at a year growing this train and still can get this shit right. Its a fuckin plant for christ sakes, why is it so damn hard to grow!


----------



## legallyflying (Dec 8, 2012)

Well if you want assistance then you have to tell us what the hell your doing. This is why I like THCfarmer. Almost every plant hospital post begins with the information needed to offer assistance..such as..

Strain 
What wattage of lights 
Growing method 
Watering cycle 
Nutrient brand 
Ppm of tap water, ppm of nutrients 
Average daily and nightly temp
Average humidity 
Pictures, good pictures, of your plants. 

At this point we know fuck all. So it good be anything from hardness of your water to using an ungrounded pump
In your Rez.


----------



## hxvoc (Dec 8, 2012)

the pumps will cause lockout if there arent grounded? well fuck me.


----------



## legallyflying (Dec 9, 2012)

The can cause problems with iron...

But spots are a sign of phos def. could be too much calcium or hard water. But then again, since you pretty much ignored my request to provide enough info to help you.. Who really gives a fuck


----------



## hxvoc (Dec 9, 2012)

Ive been busy dickhead. And RIU went down for me last night. 

My water is .3 ec out of the and about 7.1 ph, I have looked at the local water report and it all looks chinese to me. I didnt even see where calcium was listed. 

I was putting clones directly from the cloner to the flood table but its like they dont even stretch. My environment is perfect so Im leaning toward my nutrient levels. 

600watt hps 77 day 72 night

strain power plant, humidy 40%

Using hydroton, ph is stuck at 5.9 flooding every 3 hours till over is reached.

maxibloom at 7gs per gallon

what other info would be helpful?


----------



## legallyflying (Dec 9, 2012)

The ppm of your nutrients. Also are you going straight to flower from rooted clone? 

I use dyna grow bloom to establish roots in the first week (low N and very high P and high K). Have you tried different nutrients? Some people get goods results with GH but it is generally regarded as rather low quality nutrients. 

If I were you I would try 3 things as it seems the problem is nutrient absorption, if you really have a boner for GH then just do the first 2.

1. Inoculate your table with beneficials. Brew 5 gallons of tea and then pour it on each plant site. Make sure to treat your water for chlorine or chloramine first (both your Nute water and tea water). By far the easiest way is to get some aquarium water treatment solution. It's cheap and gets rid of both and ammonia. 

2. Start with a nutrient of about 400ppm total. Which will equate to 260 ppm of nutrients..PLENTY of juice for clones

3. Try a different brand of nutrients. DM, heavy 16, or botanicare. I have found heavy 16 the nicest.


----------



## legallyflying (Dec 9, 2012)

Oh yeah, lower your PH a little to 5.5 for the first week.


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## hxvoc (Dec 10, 2012)

ok i will lower my ph to 5.5, the maxibloom brings my ph to 5.9 with my tapwater.

I will also be attempting to try dyna grow on a side to side with both tables, the clones i started 2 weeks ago are actually looking really good though only half of them elongated correctly. 6 stretch exactly as i wanted and 6 didnt, its like it takes to long for the roots to grow down into the flood level. They actually look pretty good.

Im using simple maxibloom trying to learn my plants and about reading your plants which I feel is my biggest weakness. Ive read countless problem threads and it seems alot of the deficiencies have the same signs or can be caused by other deficencies.


----------



## Mithrandir420 (Dec 11, 2012)

hxvoc said:


> ok i will lower my ph to 5.5, the maxibloom brings my ph to 5.9 with my tapwater.
> 
> I will also be attempting to try dyna grow on a side to side with both tables, the clones i started 2 weeks ago are actually looking really good though only half of them elongated correctly. 6 stretch exactly as i wanted and 6 didnt, its like it takes to long for the roots to grow down into the flood level. They actually look pretty good.
> 
> Im using simple maxibloom trying to learn my plants and about reading your plants which I feel is my biggest weakness. Ive read countless problem threads and it seems alot of the deficiencies have the same signs or can be caused by other deficencies.


I haven't tried Maxibloom but I get fantastic results using GH 3 part in an E & F set up with hydroton. Personally, I am not a fan of one part nutes. Not enough adjustability for me. When my ph goes above 5.9 I see issues. 

I don't like going directly from clone to flower. I always give them 5 - 7 days veg to develop roots and get used to the intense lighting. 

I have problems if I flood too often too early. Or if the cube (I clone in rockwool) is too deep in the pot in relation to the flood level. (overwatering/drowning)


I am not saying any of these are your problem, but it stuff to think about as you look at and evaluate your system.


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## legallyflying (Dec 11, 2012)

I flower big plants..cause I'm a legal grower but at any rate, if your roots are fucked up or not growing then you will see all kids of problems 

This last round my clones got slimed and I had to cut back all the roots. The plants looked like HELL. Yellow leaves, spots, purple stems, name it. My buddy said, dude, throw those away! And I said, nah, they just need to root. Give them 7-10 days and they will explode! Well, they exoded alright! My friend came back in two weeks and there were bushy ass 2 foot plants in there . Where did those come from? Uhhhh. Those are the same plants . 

Never flowered or veged with dyna grow. Just used the flower formula to root with. Then I just add veg nutes on top of them a week or so later. 

Goo luck


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## Beachside (Dec 11, 2012)

Ok so after reading all this I have a few questions; The flow and grow seems to be the choice do I need to raise them off the ground still or have the new pots overcome this? has anyone tried the sentinal yet? Also am I correct in reading that you were flooding three times a day but have started to flood only twice and have seen an improvement in the type of root grow? 

Thanks! I have been considering trying one of these systems for a while...


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 11, 2012)

Beachside said:


> Ok so after reading all this I have a few questions; The flow and grow seems to be the choice do I need to raise them off the ground still or have the new pots overcome this? has anyone tried the sentinal yet? Also am I correct in reading that you were flooding three times a day but have started to flood only twice and have seen an improvement in the type of root grow?
> 
> Thanks! I have been considering trying one of these systems for a while...



Veg flood times should be x1 to x2 during lights on when using growdan, reason for this is to allow the roots to search 
and branch out in the medium= later in Large root mass!

bloom flood time i like x3 as im not wanting my roots to search!

if using the cap system you will need to raise the buckets, the titan i believe is already raised!
and i would love to see somebody use the sentinal


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## legallyflying (Dec 11, 2012)

just build your own system. Its stupid easy and dirt cheap.


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## Beachside (Dec 11, 2012)

I was thinking of building a system but I really like the idea of not having to raise the buckets and it being more safe to walk around. So if I buy the buckets with the nice Bottoms the price starts to even out. I am considering the as the water alarm sounds pro but the price is kinda steep. I have some plants in there for the next 8 weeks any how sow I have a bit of time to think on it. This thread has been great!


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## drgreentm (Dec 12, 2012)

i have run the ebb and grow for a while with good success and have since bought the flo n grow and am 28 days in my first run with it. the flo n grow does not have raised bottom sites like the ebb and grow but i have no issue with this because im running a large air pump and stone in each site so im flooding much more often than i did with the ebb and grow, this swaps the sitting water out more often and has a stone in there anyway. the one thing im loving about the titan is they make fabric inserts for the inners to allow you to run pretty much any medium you want, im running perlite in my system now and love the stuff. all in all i like both systems but the flo n grow is defiantly a step up, people have had issues with the cap being a reliable system but i can say mine was given to a friend/patient and its still running with no issue today. i dont mind spending the cash for the pre fabbed systems as it has payed for itself 1000x over in the time i have run it.


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## drgreentm (Dec 12, 2012)

here is a panoramic shot. its hard to get the room in one shot cause its so long.


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 12, 2012)

Fing jungle in there drg


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## drgreentm (Dec 12, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Fing jungle in there drg


lol it is indeed, that is one packed 4x8 space  and i gotta say im loving the perlite, plants seem to be healthier with thicker stems. im thinking the fabric is keeping more roots in the pot circling it rather than just coming straight out the bottom, but i have also been running protekt religiously in this run to so that may be why the stems are much thicker than normal.


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 12, 2012)

drgreentm said:


> lol it is indeed, that is one packed 4x8 space  and i gotta say im loving the perlite, plants seem to be healthier with thicker stems. im thinking the fabric is keeping more roots in the pot circling it rather than just coming straight out the bottom, but i have also been running protekt religiously in this run to so that may be why the stems are much thicker than normal.


Silica is a huge factor in stem production! Wish when i was banging the ebb i would of given perlite a shot!
i used it in a top drip setup and was buano for my moms

hopfully soon i will break out the big guns a run it like i used to


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## drgreentm (Dec 12, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Silica is a huge factor in stem production! Wish when i was banging the ebb i would of given perlite a shot!
> i used it in a top drip setup and was buano for my moms
> 
> hopfully soon i will break out the big guns a run it like i used to


i love it, cheap and effective  break out the big guns man!! i know you want to


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 12, 2012)

drgreentm said:


> i love it, cheap and effective  break out the big guns man!! i know you want to


I want to lol your one of the few that can remember how it used to be


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## hxvoc (Dec 12, 2012)

how often do you flood when you first put clones in the flood table? Im using Rapid rooters to clone and i place them in just a little higher than the flood line. I always try and water as least as possible from the top as it seems to soak the RR and cause some sort of stall during the stretch phase.

I just got an RO filter and plan on using it with my aero cloner as I think it would be less hassle to have roots long enough to directly feed from the flood right from the start. Using my tap water i still had no roots going on 3 weeks.

I just ned to get over this 1 hump so I can get some serious meds going. Im using 2 trays and looking to run a month to month perpetual. Any advise would be apreciated. Thanks guys.


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 12, 2012)

X2 for 15min........hxvoc


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## Beachside (Dec 12, 2012)

Perlite huh? I have always thought that would be the best medium but was told it would float. Those smart pot like liners do the trick? So what is the reason for the net pot or do you take that out?


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 12, 2012)

Beachside said:


> Perlite huh? I have always thought that would be the best medium but was told it would float. Those smart pot like liners do the trick? So what is the reason for the net pot or do you take that out?


Still use the net bucket but the liner stops perlite from geting into the drain lines!
perlite only floats if you float real high


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## drgreentm (Dec 12, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> Still use the net bucket but the liner stops perlite from geting into the drain lines!
> perlite only floats if you float real high


Yup exactly


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 13, 2012)

thought i would post up some pics of how i manage my growdan loose fill
before planting.

fresh clean water, and fill the bins up 3/4 full
adjust ph to 5.5
add growdan, make sure to break up real good.
let soak for a few hours, i leave mine over night.

before i use i drain off all water, through a drain in the totes.
this allows all the junk in the medium to drain out. now its 
readdy to use


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## georgeforeman (Dec 13, 2012)

nice pics HR. I am finally adjusting to the rockwool loose fill. I didnt properly flush it before use so my ph was through the roof. Now that it is under control, that plants are taking off. One major difference i have noticed compared to sure-to-grow is the HUGE trunks that develop in rockwool. STG always produced tiny trunks.


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 13, 2012)

georgeforeman said:


> nice pics HR. I am finally adjusting to the rockwool loose fill. I didnt properly flush it before use so my ph was through the roof. Now that it is under control, that plants are taking off. One major difference i have noticed compared to sure-to-grow is the HUGE trunks that develop in rockwool. STG always produced tiny trunks.


Thats good there pulling through! Breaking up the growdan loose is super important and draining it out before use.
seting up a station like in the pics make life so much better


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## georgeforeman (Dec 14, 2012)

how do you break it up? i did not do that step, i just soaked/cleaned and planted. i have the grow cubes that are smaller than grow chucks.
I am surprised that you do this since i thought there would be more air inbetween cubes and if you break it up, it would be more dense in the pot.

Grow Chunks = 3/4 inch square
Grow Cubes = 1/2 inch square

or maybe your using gro-wool?

and for anyone who is interested, i will be switching from pure blend pro to cultured solutions. No more organics here, too much of a hassle.


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 14, 2012)

georgeforeman said:


> how do you break it up? i did not do that step, i just soaked/cleaned and planted. i have the grow cubes that are smaller than grow chucks.
> I am surprised that you do this since i thought there would be more air inbetween cubes and if you break it up, it would be more dense in the pot.
> 
> Grow Chunks = 3/4 inch square
> ...



Yep grow wool is loose fill/flock, thats what i use.

the chunk and cubes are better to use but cost more, so i buy flock and put some labor into it 

in your case george just make sure you drain off the water after soaking, this will help in the high ph


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## hxvoc (Dec 15, 2012)

was seeing a little drooping in my week 3's. realized i had the circulation pump running 24 hours. Of course the heat allowed pathogens and killed all the dissolved oxygen. Hit it with dose of calcium hypoclorite and exhanged the circulation pump for an air pump. The girls are looking better now.


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## BLOCKER (Dec 15, 2012)

i thought it was meant to be running 24/7?


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## hxvoc (Dec 15, 2012)

I have a seperate 750 gph pump that use when mixing my maxibloom. I left it running for almost 3 days and it heated the water up to where the cal hyp couldnt even keep the pathogens down.


----------



## georgeforeman (Dec 23, 2012)

how is everyone's ebb and grow/flow doing? I just got over a mysterious def battle that turned out to be fungus gnats. Hopefully that was the problem


----------



## Warlock1369 (Dec 23, 2012)

Gnats suck. Well hope you got it all worked out.


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 23, 2012)

georgeforeman said:


> how is everyone's ebb and grow/flow doing? I just got over a mysterious def battle that turned out to be fungus gnats. Hopefully that was the problem


I dont want to seen like a brokin record but i to just got hit with a major def issue, i figured it out though 
so i start off using 5.5 water to condition my growdan! Normally this puts the medium at 5.9 to 6.0 thats
perfect in my opion, but i got complacent and not checking the medium before use  well that was a big
mistake, shit was 6.5 must of been a hot batch of medium! So always check before use! If you find its to high
drain off the water and poor a fresh batch of 5.5 into it  this should help. Fungus gnats love coco and growdan 
not much you can do about that!


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## Hiker (Dec 24, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> always check before use! If you find its to high
> drain off the water and poor a fresh batch of 5.5 into it  this should help.


How do you check the ph of your rockwool? Do you squeeze out some water and measure that? I always thought we weren't supposed to squeeze rockwool as it would compress it and reduce the amount of airspace within the cube.


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## georgeforeman (Dec 24, 2012)

Hiker said:


> How do you check the ph of your rockwool? Do you squeeze out some water and measure that? I always thought we weren't supposed to squeeze rockwool as it would compress it and reduce the amount of airspace within the cube.


oh no, i think the directions on the bag say never to squeeze or compress. The air pockets are what makes rockwool great. For ph, you need to do a runoff test.


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## homebrewer (Dec 24, 2012)

hellraizer30 said:


> I dont want to seen like a brokin record but i to just got hit with a major def issue, i figured it out though
> so i start off using 5.5 water to condition my growdan! Normally this puts the medium at 5.9 to 6.0 thats
> perfect in my opion, but i got complacent and not checking the medium before use  well that was a big
> mistake, shit was 6.5 must of been a hot batch of medium! So always check before use! If you find its to high
> ...


I tested those Grodan blocks for about a year and have gone back to the atami blocks. The Grodan's were more dense and held more water for longer, that can lead to issues in some environments like algae, gnats and root problems.


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## hellraizer30 (Dec 24, 2012)

Atami blocks hmm never seen them but il do some research on them


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## akpaco (Jan 15, 2013)

HR,

Happy new year bro! Just surfing the web and saw that the company that makes Great White makes a liquid product called Orca. Just curious if you've seen it and what do you think?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jan 15, 2013)

akpaco said:


> HR,
> 
> Happy new year bro! Just surfing the web and saw that the company that makes Great White makes a liquid product called Orca. Just curious if you've seen it and what do you think?



Funny you mention that! Word from another buddy is that stuff is great! So i almost picked up a small bottle,
but was trying for a freebie to test it lol. From a look at the bottle its got everything that pirahna has and
about 50% more than any other product, so its real strong!


----------



## akpaco (Jan 15, 2013)

HR,

Another question. I germinated a single seed and have it in a grodan block. I was thinking of messing around and making up a DWC bucket and put in in there in my little veg room. My question is can I use the Grodan croutons in there or is the hydroton better to use in that system?

Thanks!!


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 15, 2013)

akpaco said:


> HR,
> 
> Another question. I germinated a single seed and have it in a grodan block. I was thinking of messing around and making up a DWC bucket and put in in there in my little veg room. My question is can I use the Grodan croutons in there or is the hydroton better to use in that system?
> 
> Thanks!!


For dwc i would go with hydrton


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## akpaco (Jan 15, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> For dwc i would go with hydrton


Thanks bro!!


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 15, 2013)

akpaco said:


> Thanks bro!!


No prob.......!


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## drgreentm (Jan 15, 2013)

What's up HR, the Titan rocked! I chopped a little wile ago and figured I would share. Total weight was very close to 44 from my 8, 50/50 large nug and smaller nug but all pretty good, my next run is only 6 large plants and they are looking very happy, switched to the whole DM gold line and it seems very good hope I can get a bit more this run but I'm happy with it all and all.


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## drgreentm (Jan 17, 2013)

14 g's of straight shatter glass lol shit gets you straight medicated on another level.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 17, 2013)

drgreentm said:


> 14 g's of straight shatter glass lol shit gets you straight medicated on another level.


Very nice drg!


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## drgreentm (Jan 17, 2013)

Stuff will knock your socks off!!!


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Jan 17, 2013)

Finally got a new laptop! Have 11 SLH going right now buddy.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 17, 2013)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Finally got a new laptop! Have 11 SLH going right now buddy.


 pics please!


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jan 17, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> pics please!


Later, it's really not much to look at right now honestly. They're 2 weeks into 12/12. Hopefully I find one that is total fire though. I'll probably just reveg and bring it to my buddies place. They're a little touchy on the nitrogen though. They are showing some claw from fairly low levels of N, but I think they will come out of it in the next week or so. It's crazy using a new computer. This windows 8 shit is a little lame right now, but I'll probably get more used to it in the next couple weeks.


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jan 17, 2013)

Had a quantum 600 ballast take a shit in under a year too... Probably just grab another lumatek like my other 2 are. I really need to send that guy back for warranty now that I think of it. Anyway, good to be back typing anyway. I've always been reading stuff on here on my phone though.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 17, 2013)

I moved away from windows and went mac, and will never look back


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jan 17, 2013)

Yeah, I just got a basic laptop. It's probably more powerful than my last one (well im sure it is but my old one was good enough) , but I just got fed up with dicking around on my phone. It was funny I was at bestbuy and a I heard a guy ask if they had a windows 7 laptop instead of all the windows 8 BS. I was thinking the same thing. They made it like a smart phone with all the app shit on the front. I'm learning it though... Seems like its designed for a 15 year old girl though.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 18, 2013)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> Yeah, I just got a basic laptop. It's probably more powerful than my last one (well im sure it is but my old one was good enough) , but I just got fed up with dicking around on my phone. It was funny I was at bestbuy and a I heard a guy ask if they had a windows 7 laptop instead of all the windows 8 BS. I was thinking the same thing. They made it like a smart phone with all the app shit on the front. I'm learning it though... Seems like its designed for a 15 year old girl though.


I installed this: http://www.classicshell.net/ and it gives you back the complete desktop/start menu so it looks and behaves like windows 7. It's free and you never have to look at the tiled start screen again. You can set it up so it boots to the desktop instead of the start screen.


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## legallyflying (Jan 18, 2013)

I just got a new laptop as well. My wife loves her Mac, but she paid an arm and a fucking leg for it. $1600? Pahlease. 

When ever she gets to telling me how light it is I always say " wow, is super light" "hey let's watch a DVD on it". Lol


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jan 18, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> I just got a new laptop as well. My wife loves her Mac, but she paid an arm and a fucking leg for it. $1600? Pahlease.
> 
> When ever she gets to telling me how light it is I always say " wow, is super light" "hey let's watch a DVD on it". Lol


Haha nice throw back lol


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jan 18, 2013)

What do you think about letting a plant turn a bit yellow before a person harvests it? I have a feeling starving the plant is kind of essential to flavors, and odors. I recently had a grow I hit with too much nitrogen and I think it really messed up the odor/flavor. I normally don't worry about the flushing people do, but this inadvertent test of mine was really incredible. I've grown this strain many times before and the only thing I did was add too much N later in flowering. I know this is a bit out there but I figured nobody is talking about anything in here (at the moment anyway), and there is always smart guys rolling through here. From what I know chlorophyll breaks down into simple sugars and the yellows/reds/other fall colors you see are just the other pigments finally coming out because the Chlorophyll is finally reduced enough. Anyway, I was doing reading on terpenes etc, and found they are increased during this time too. Any thoughts?  haha


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## Warlock1369 (Jan 18, 2013)

I never worry about anything the last 2 weeks. Just water level and pH. Don't even test ppms. And flush only last 4 days


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## legallyflying (Jan 18, 2013)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> What do you think about letting a plant turn a bit yellow before a person harvests it? I have a feeling starving the plant is kind of essential to flavors, and odors. I recently had a grow I hit with too much nitrogen and I think it really messed up the odor/flavor. I normally don't worry about the flushing people do, but this inadvertent test of mine was really incredible. I've grown this strain many times before and the only thing I did was add too much N later in flowering. I know this is a bit out there but I figured nobody is talking about anything in here (at the moment anyway), and there is always smart guys rolling through here. From what I know chlorophyll breaks down into simple sugars and the yellows/reds/other fall colors you see are just the other pigments finally coming out because the Chlorophyll is finally reduced enough. Anyway, I was doing reading on terpenes etc, and found they are increased during this time too. Any thoughts?  haha


I think there are a lot more variables. One thing that I read that made allot of sense was that you can starve your plant too much. Indeed chlorophyll is broken down but the plant needs other nutrients to allow this process to happen. Soo people that see yellowing two weeks from harvest are over doing it a bit. 

Honestly though, some of the best herb I grew was green as grass when I harvested it. So to that end, careful and SLOW drying can go a long way to a smooth smoke


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Jan 18, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> I think there are a lot more variables. One thing that I read that made allot of sense was that you can starve your plant too much. Indeed chlorophyll is broken down but the plant needs other nutrients to allow this process to happen. Soo people that see yellowing two weeks from harvest are over doing it a bit.
> 
> Honestly though, some of the best herb I grew was green as grass when I harvested it. So to that end, careful and SLOW drying can go a long way to a smooth smoke


yeah that's the thing. I have grown bright green stuff that was fire.... I think I just totally over did it on the N/grow nutes. I slowly dried this stuff too. It was like 10 days, and cured the shit out of it. There was no saving it. Chalk it up to experience I guess. I've given Grow nutes during flower before, but I just hammered them with it this time, and its the only thing I can think of as messing with the odor/flavor.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 18, 2013)

I let mine yellow off! The last week or 2


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## hornedfrog2000 (Jan 19, 2013)

I'll probably be doing this non stop for 10 years and still be asking crazy questions. Experience>Books. I know reading stuff helps, but I've learned a lot more from people on here that have done it rather than read about it. If it works it works. I sacrifice a baby goat before every grow.... A little advice to noobs. Find people who have been doing it for a long time and listen to them even if it doesn't line up to what the book says. Get a mentor and they will be good to you. I appreciate HR, and SMNKFR or whatever his name is (get and easier name bro  ) Anyway, they helped me a lot. Also, a lot of the time people who know how to grow aren't readily running around here helping noobs because they already know what they are doing, and don't feel like defending themselves against the trolls, so take that into account. Rant over/ 8=)~


----------



## Warlock1369 (Jan 19, 2013)

So true. I use ways that are said not to. But I made it work and know how to. Killed more plants then I want to say getting what I do down. I myself left for along time do to having to fight with people. What works for me might not work for you. But there might be something we know and have done that will help you. And you for us. There is no one way to grow. If there was we wouldn't be here. We would all have the same setups and same books and be pulling the same yields. There are few on these sites I listen to. And I do mean few. HR is number 1. And I have MR Cervantes as a personal mentor. So that says a lot for HR. The problem is noobs don't know who to trust. And post and rep count don't mean anything. And some mods don't know ether. So I see how its hard for them. I've been doing this for 20 years and still finding new things. So take what you know and what you hear with a grain of sand. And don't be afraid to fail. Albert Einstein tryed over 1000 ways to build the light bulb. All he said when asked if he felt bad for failing 1000 times was. No! I found 1000 ways not to do it. You can't fail if you learn from your mistakes.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 20, 2013)

hornedfrog2000 said:


> SMNKFR or whatever his name is (get and easier name bro  )/QUOTE]
> 
> LMAO. I think you mean me. When I joined up here I was having a significant and tragic problem with golf, my chosen stoner pasttime. I SHANKED the ball a lot and my buddies called me the Shankerman. I just removed the vowels. Yea, it's a dumb name, but that's history. I have seen much much worse


----------



## Land (Jan 21, 2013)

drgreentm said:


> What's up HR, the Titan rocked! I chopped a little wile ago and figured I would share. Total weight was very close to 44 from my 8, 50/50 large nug and smaller nug but all pretty good, my next run is only 6 large plants and they are looking very happy, switched to the whole DM gold line and it seems very good hope I can get a bit more this run but I'm happy with it all and all.


Just wondering how the medium perlight worked out for you? HR I know you use graudan or rockwoll flock. Just courius what is the best and most bang for your buck? I can get perlight from Stians for about 10 bucks for a 40 gallon bag. I think I would still run my mums in the RW flock though. 

Thank,


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jan 21, 2013)

Drg plants look stellar in perlite! So im guessing its worth a try! If and when i switch to top drip im going to try perlite and coco


----------



## Land (Jan 21, 2013)

Thanks HR. I thought al says coco is a no no with h202?


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 21, 2013)

I dont use h202 anymore so that wont be a issue. AL says theres no place in hydro for bennys to


----------



## Land (Jan 21, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> I dont use h202 anymore so that wont be a issue. AL says theres no place in hydro for bennys to



Bennys? What does that mean?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jan 21, 2013)

Beneficials like teas or compost teas to control bactiria and large air stones to add air to the res


----------



## akpaco (Jan 21, 2013)

HR,

How soon before your lights go out do you water? Just curious..

Thanks


----------



## drgreentm (Jan 21, 2013)

Land said:


> Just wondering how the medium perlight worked out for you? HR I know you use graudan or rockwoll flock. Just courius what is the best and most bang for your buck? I can get perlight from Stians for about 10 bucks for a 40 gallon bag. I think I would still run my mums in the RW flock though.
> 
> Thank,


the run in perlite is currently 2 weeks in 12/12 and are looking very good. Hydroton has its place in DWC and other types of hydro but I will say I'm happy to see the hydroton gone from my life. Perlite is cheap, light, disposable and readily available, everything that makes for a great disposable medium.


----------



## Land (Jan 21, 2013)

drgreentm said:


> the run in perlite is currently 2 weeks in 12/12 and are looking very good. Hydroton has its place in DWC and other types of hydro but I will say I'm happy to see the hydroton gone from my life. Perlite is cheap, light, disposable and readily available, everything that makes for a great disposable medium.


How often do you flood and how deep? Or are you on a drip top feed system like HR said he would try?

Thinks


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## drgreentm (Jan 22, 2013)

Land said:


> How often do you flood and how deep? Or are you on a drip top feed system like HR said he would try?
> 
> Thinks


I'm using fabric inserts with my system so the perlite doesn't fall into the lower buckets, running flood and drain flooding as deep as the system allows for and watering 3x in a 12 hour periode, roots are well beyond the upper buckets and into the lowers at this point.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jan 22, 2013)

akpaco said:


> HR,
> 
> How soon before your lights go out do you water? Just curious..
> 
> Thanks


I flood right before the lights go out.


----------



## Land (Jan 22, 2013)

drgreentm said:


> I'm using fabric inserts with my system so the perlite doesn't fall into the lower buckets, running flood and drain flooding as deep as the system allows for and watering 3x in a 12 hour periode, roots are well beyond the upper buckets and into the lowers at this point.


Thanks, d

Could you be more specific on the fabric you use? I was just going to stuff rockwoll flock in the bottom of my pots. And if you were to guess, how deep does your system let you flood? I'm running tables so I could flood up to 5" if I need to. 

Thanks, Land


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## Mithrandir420 (Jan 22, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> I dont use h202 anymore so that wont be a issue. AL says theres no place in hydro for bennys to


Every time I try to use some sort of semi organic beneficial whatsamajiggle, I get crap in my rez.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jan 22, 2013)

Mithrandir420 said:


> Every time I try to use some sort of semi organic beneficial whatsamajiggle, I get crap in my rez.


Geting a bio mass isnt bad its just what your bennys are leaving! Look for nice roots and clear wAter. The gunk will
go to the bottom of the res, and can be cleaned later. Its important to control temps to slow the bad bactiria and
allow your tea to work.


----------



## akpaco (Jan 22, 2013)

HR,

Have you used any type of sweetener product recently that you've liked?


----------



## doniawon (Jan 22, 2013)

akpaco said:


> HR,
> 
> Have you used any type of sweetener product recently that you've liked?


Sweet and low, or sugar in the raw, is great in tea


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jan 22, 2013)

akpaco said:


> HR,
> 
> Have you used any type of sweetener product recently that you've liked?


In a ebb and grow i dont not a good idea! Bad bactiria outbreaks. In a ebb and flow it seems to be ok
but i dont believe it adds to the yields, your call on that on bro!


----------



## hornedfrog2000 (Jan 22, 2013)

The bacteria will feed on the the carbs (sugar), but if you just dump it into your res willy nilly it can feed the bad bacteria as well. Tea makes sense, but how much sense is up to you. If you make a good bacteria tea and feed that outside of your res it can make sense, but don't just dump food for bacteria into an uncontrolled environment (your res). imo.


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## drgreentm (Jan 22, 2013)

Land said:


> Thanks, d
> 
> Could you be more specific on the fabric you use? I was just going to stuff rockwoll flock in the bottom of my pots. And if you were to guess, how deep does your system let you flood? I'm running tables so I could flood up to 5" if I need to.
> 
> Thanks, Land


Simply put, the insert is just a custom smart pot for the flo n grow system. If using a flood tray I would simply use smart pots filled with perlite all the way through, perlite wicks very well so believe me flood depth will not be a issue. My pots are roughly 11" tall and I flooded them in a 5" deep flood tray and they where wet up to the top lol.


----------



## Land (Jan 22, 2013)

drgreentm said:


> Simply put, the insert is just a custom smart pot for the flo n grow system. If using a flood tray I would simply use smart pots filled with perlite all the way through, perlite wicks very well so believe me flood depth will not be a issue. My pots are roughly 11" tall and I flooded them in a 5" deep flood tray and they where wet up to the top lol.



Thanks, D

I already bought 150 4x4x6" square pots though. Lol guess I'll try the old Rockwoll at the bottom or maybe my exs old nylons wraped around the bottom held with a rubber band or something. I just don't see how medium can get any cheaper then ten buck and I don't have to drive 50 miles to get it ether.


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## akpaco (Jan 23, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> In a ebb and grow i dont not a good idea! Bad bactiria outbreaks. In a ebb and flow it seems to be ok
> but i dont believe it adds to the yields, your call on that on bro!


Sounds good! One of the best grows I've had recently was with nothing other then the 3 part,calmag and aquashield. And I had some of the frostiest buds ever. Going to stick with what works! Just was wondering if you came across anything that was stable. Thanks as always!


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## BCBuddy420 (Jan 24, 2013)

Hey guys  This is to the OP or anyone, much appreciated. Alot of you guys seem to be quite knowledgeable in hydroponics whereas I am not! Never tried it  I am humbly asking for a few pointers? I have a plan design of a pvc tube system grow (have done a fair bit of homework) with net pots and a steady current, if you will, of nutrient solution pumped through and back to the rez. Once clones root sufficiently they will go straight to flowering in this setup, no veg. From experience what would be the biggest issues to watch out for? Here's what I would put to practice without any help; EC will sit around 1.0-1.4 never exceeding that. PPM will be around 800-900ish. The solution needs changing every week due to salt buildups, just like flushing my soilless medium. Water must be aerated for DO, using air stones. Solution level is kept on the cooler side and just touching the bottom of the net pots. Ok that's about what I know for now. I would like to know if there's any major issues to watch out for... kiss-ass


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jan 24, 2013)

BCBuddy420 said:


> Hey guys  This is to the OP or anyone, much appreciated. Alot of you guys seem to be quite knowledgeable in hydroponics whereas I am not! Never tried it  I am humbly asking for a few pointers? I have a plan design of a pvc tube system grow (have done a fair bit of homework) with net pots and a steady current, if you will, of nutrient solution pumped through and back to the rez. Once clones root sufficiently they will go straight to flowering in this setup, no veg. From experience what would be the biggest issues to watch out for? Here's what I would put to practice without any help; EC will sit around 1.0-1.4 never exceeding that. PPM will be around 800-900ish. The solution needs changing every week due to salt buildups, just like flushing my soilless medium. Water must be aerated for DO, using air stones. Solution level is kept on the cooler side and just touching the bottom of the net pots. Ok that's about what I know for now. I would like to know if there's any major issues to watch out for... kiss-ass


Sounds like nft! Biggest thing is water temp! 2nd would be nute levels keep it low! 
As nft does work well its not my flav! Done and wont do it again. But i still will help
as much as i can.


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## D.A.R.E.graduate420 (Jan 24, 2013)

Just spent the better part of 2 hrs reading this thread from start to finish... great info, thanks to everyone who has contributed...


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## D.A.R.E.graduate420 (Jan 24, 2013)

HR and others, would love to hear your thoughts on a few things...

(1) Have you ever ventilated your root zone? Tried blowing air in? 

I have my E+F baskets covered and a fan hooked up to blow air into the root zone...I'm only at the seedling stage, but I am hoping this might be good way to increase DO, keep humidity up, use adiabatic cooling properties to keep root zone heat down, and thwart root rot/gnats, etc. I also have an air stone in my rez, but was thinking of running ventilation for 15 min after each flood and maybe for 15 min halfway between floods for all the mentioned reasons. I was also thinking with root zone ventilation, I might be able to bump my daily flood counts from 3-4x daily to 5-7 floods daily.
The air-flow will probably cause some significant water evap that I wouldn't have otherwise (my res is covered), but if I monitor water levels I don't think it'll be a problem. Also, as I mentioned, I probably would opt to leave the fans on only briefly. 

(2) I'm starting out on a VERY SMALL grow table...it was actually a present, and I sort of fell into this whole hydroponics thing, but I've been enjoying it thus far. The table is only 2'x2', but holds 16 grow baskets. I think I'm going to grow just 1 or 2 plants to start, and then clone from there to get 16 plants, then do a large batch ScrOG. Thoughts?


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 24, 2013)

Unless what your venting into your root zone can add DO, i think it will just dry out your root!
Would like to know how it turns out d.a.r.e


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## BCBuddy420 (Jan 24, 2013)

Thank you hellraizer sir, my pipe used will be 4" and will be semi-flooded with solution and the plants will sit in hydroton. The tubes will be in a 360 degree formation, and gradually curving around down to the next level of pipe. This should carry solution from top pipe all the way through to the bottom but system will be in a flooded state at all times, but with constant movement. To create this I will have adjustable dams at the end of each level of pipe, very similar to Mr.Robinson's design except I have plans to customize and make my own. Would this be more considered a hybrid of DWC and NFT? What can cause root issues besides fluid temp. problems? What is the best practice/products for root health? ( I have used hygrozyme ) How can I cheaply control temp. in res. up or down? And lastly wouldn't a guy expect temp. to change quite a bit when leaving the res.? and travelling distances through pipes, hot grow space, etc. Is there another way to gauge a more accurate temp. reading in solution for when plants are actually receiving? 
~BCbuddy420


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 24, 2013)

BCBuddy420 said:


> Thank you hellraizer sir, my pipe used will be 4" and will be semi-flooded with solution and the plants will sit in hydroton. The tubes will be in a 360 degree formation, and gradually curving around down to the next level of pipe. This should carry solution from top pipe all the way through to the bottom but system will be in a flooded state at all times, but with constant movement. To create this I will have adjustable dams at the end of each level of pipe, very similar to Mr.Robinson's design except I have plans to customize and make my own. Would this be more considered a hybrid of DWC and NFT? What can cause root issues besides fluid temp. problems? What is the best practice/products for root health? ( I have used hygrozyme ) How can I cheaply control temp. in res. up or down? And lastly wouldn't a guy expect temp. to change quite a bit when leaving the res.? and travelling distances through pipes, hot grow space, etc. Is there another way to gauge a more accurate temp. reading in solution for when plants are actually receiving?
> ~BCbuddy420


As long as the temps are good at the res and the water is flowing you should be fine, your running 
nft style tubes, some folks use aero style sprayers inside the tubes others use a undercurrent like
you are! If this setup was mine i would run just like you are but add air stones up stream of each
section of tube! This will allow air to run through the system, working similiar to dwc and elliminating
Root rot! Now res temps will be critical here to aviod slime!


----------



## BCBuddy420 (Jan 24, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> As long as the temps are good at the res and the water is flowing you should be fine, your running
> nft style tubes, some folks use aero style sprayers inside the tubes others use a undercurrent like
> you are! If this setup was mine i would run just like you are but add air stones up stream of each
> section of tube! This will allow air to run through the system, working similiar to dwc and elliminating
> Root rot! Now res temps will be critical here to aviod slime!


 GENIUS! I will run an multiport air pump with different lengths of air line for each level and install an airstone in each dam. That should max out aeration. I will draw a pic of my design... Thanks again for that critical design plan I was missing. I LOVE it man. No picture drawing is coming... I forgot I don't have drawing skills


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## Hiker (Jan 25, 2013)

BCBuddy420 said:


> Hey guys  This is to the OP or anyone, much appreciated. Alot of you guys seem to be quite knowledgeable in hydroponics whereas I am not! Never tried it  I am humbly asking for a few pointers? I have a plan design of a pvc tube system grow (have done a fair bit of homework) with net pots and a steady current, if you will, of nutrient solution pumped through and back to the rez. Once clones root sufficiently they will go straight to flowering in this setup, no veg. From experience what would be the biggest issues to watch out for? Here's what I would put to practice without any help; EC will sit around 1.0-1.4 never exceeding that. PPM will be around 800-900ish. The solution needs changing every week due to salt buildups, just like flushing my soilless medium. Water must be aerated for DO, using air stones. Solution level is kept on the cooler side and just touching the bottom of the net pots. Ok that's about what I know for now. I would like to know if there's any major issues to watch out for... kiss-ass


A couple of my friends built a system like that. The biggest problem I see is the flow rate. The roots will start to fill that PVC pipe. They won't completely clog the pipe, but the water you're trying to pump through the pipe begins to move too slow. You either have water coming out the plant sites, or you have to turn the flow down to a trickle. Flowering immediately will help. My advice, from watching them struggle with their system for months, use bigger pipe than you think you need.


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## hellraizer30 (Jan 25, 2013)

Hiker said:


> A couple of my friends built a system like that. The biggest problem I see if the flow rate. The roots will start to fill that PVC pipe. They won't completely clog the pipe, but the water you're trying to pump through the pipe begins to move too slow. You either have water coming out the plant sites, or you have to turn the flow down to a trickle. Flowering immediately will help. My advice, from watching them struggle with their system for months, use bigger pipe than you think you need.



Very good points hiker


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## BCBuddy420 (Jan 25, 2013)

Hiker said:


> A couple of my friends built a system like that. The biggest problem I see is the flow rate. The roots will start to fill that PVC pipe. They won't completely clog the pipe, but the water you're trying to pump through the pipe begins to move too slow. You either have water coming out the plant sites, or you have to turn the flow down to a trickle. Flowering immediately will help. My advice, from watching them struggle with their system for months, use bigger pipe than you think you need.


Thanks for the info, it's guys like you with great tips like that one, that truly help others out  I will be flowering from rooted clones, yes and now I will know what to lookout for and avoid in that sense. +REP


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## akpaco (Feb 4, 2013)

Just a heads up... I recently purchased a pair of Hydrofarm Lumii grow room glasses and they work really well and there're $25 bucks!!


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 4, 2013)

akpaco said:


> Just a heads up... I recently purchased a pair of Hydrofarm Lumii grow room glasses and they work really well and there're $25 bucks!!


I got method 7 ones but there way more $  do they cut all the hps light out?


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## Mithrandir420 (Feb 4, 2013)

I have a pair of Lumiis as well, and they are really nice. Especially for 25.00. I think the method 7's give a slightly better color correction.


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## akpaco (Feb 4, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> I got method 7 ones but there way more $  do they cut all the hps light out?



They totally cut the hps out.. It's been awhile since I tried the Method 7's on. I do believe the Method seven color correction is better. But like [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Mith said $25 bucks is hard to beat!*[/FONT]


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## drgreentm (Feb 7, 2013)

whats up guys, been getting pm's about the perlite grow so i figured i would post some pics from today so everybody can see how they are doing. they look great, they are about 28 days in today and the dm gold seems to be doing ok, not sure if its going to significantly increase the yield but they look healthy. someone asked me about watering and want to clarify i havent changed my watering schedule, it is the same as when i ran with hydroton. i water x3 within a 12 hour periode in flower of course, and water x4 in 24 hours in veg.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 7, 2013)

Looking good dr


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## drgreentm (Feb 7, 2013)

thanks buddy  havent been doing much at all with this run as a matter of fact i have been at the grow prably 4 times since flowering them lol, they are just doing there thing.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 7, 2013)

drgreentm said:


> thanks buddy  havent been doing much at all with this run as a matter of fact i have been at the grow prably 4 times since flowering them lol, they are just doing there thing.


Kinda how mines rolling! Zero need to be at the spot


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## drgreentm (Feb 7, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> Kinda how mines rolling! Zero need to be at the spot


kinda nice and kinda sad at the same time lol, i got nothing to do!!!


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 7, 2013)

drgreentm said:


> kinda nice and kinda sad at the same time lol, i got nothing to do!!!



I do like spending time with my girls


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## drgreentm (Feb 7, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> I do like spending time with my girls


i hear that, glad to hear your op is running smoothly though


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 7, 2013)

drgreentm said:


> i hear that, glad to hear your op is running smoothly though


Smooth sailing so far lol, got a few new flavors to!


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## legallyflying (Feb 8, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> I do like spending time with my girls


You can come over and help me with post harvest clean up....


That's when I hate my girls !


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 8, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> You can come over and help me with post harvest clean up....
> 
> 
> That's when I hate my girls !


Haha..............


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## Curiosity2 (Feb 8, 2013)

Wow hellraizer30 in little over a year 107 pages, I wish I had time to read it all, I will, just not tonight, congrats and thanks for all the great info. I have questions for you or anyone using General Hydroponics Nutes. In particular the floralicious plus product, my questions are, has anyone used it before and if you have, did you noticed that it tends to build up on the buckets, pumps, air stones, and any other rough surface? AND How often are you cleaning you res and buckets with or without any build ups or other problems, is it between grows or some other kind of schedule? Thanks Using DIY ebb and flow.


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## hellraizer30 (Feb 8, 2013)

Curiosity2 said:


> Wow hellraizer30 in little over a year 107 pages, I wish I had time to read it all, I will, just not tonight, congrats and thanks for all the great info. I have questions for you or anyone using General Hydroponics Nutes. In particular the floralicious plus product, my questions are, has anyone used it before and if you have, did you noticed that it tends to build up on the buckets, pumps, air stones, and any other rough surface? AND How often are you cleaning you res and buckets with or without any build ups or other problems, is it between grows or some other kind of schedule? Thanks Using DIY ebb and flow.


That plus stuff is like growing with nova very dirty and yes lots of junk! I would clean the res every res change using those
nutes. With other clean nute brands you may not even have to but every grow!


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## logger906 (Mar 28, 2013)

HR, looking to find some piriana that you use in your res. can you give me some info. on it. thanks eh.


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## Mithrandir420 (Mar 28, 2013)

Curiosity2 said:


> Wow hellraizer30 in little over a year 107 pages, I wish I had time to read it all, I will, just not tonight, congrats and thanks for all the great info. I have questions for you or anyone using General Hydroponics Nutes. In particular the floralicious plus product, my questions are, has anyone used it before and if you have, did you noticed that it tends to build up on the buckets, pumps, air stones, and any other rough surface? AND How often are you cleaning you res and buckets with or without any build ups or other problems, is it between grows or some other kind of schedule? Thanks Using DIY ebb and flow.


That's why I decided to not use Floralicious. That and it made my room smell like shit.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 28, 2013)

logger906 said:


> HR, looking to find some piriana that you use in your res. can you give me some info. on it. thanks eh.


Its made by advanced but im finding orca to be a much better alternative


----------



## logger906 (Mar 28, 2013)

Thanks hellraizer, ok guys I am NEW to cap ebb and grow.been growing in coco for about a year or so, I picked up two cap's (12) and will get going soon. I need to know how to put my clones from the box in to my cap set up. 2 gal. buckets (clay) the guy at the hydro store said just put them in straight in to it. can you guys give me some info on the best way. you guys know your way around on this cap systems. HR/WL I have gotting a LOT of good info from you guys and all others on this forum Thanks eh.


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## hellraizer30 (Mar 28, 2013)

Fill your system with the hydroton about 2in from the top and move your cuts and plant them at that level,
this will put the flood lvl right at the bottom of your rooting cubes. With hydroton i would flood them 2 times
a day for 15min for the first week them go to 3 times for the 2nd week, after veg i like 4 times for 15min 
for bloom!


look into roots excel by house and gardens


----------



## logger906 (Mar 29, 2013)

HR,i use h/g love it. one more newbe ? do I put the clones in to RW as they are coming out of the box with out. it is nice that you guys help out new guys (not so much around here) thank you for the fast reply


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## Land (May 8, 2013)

HR I'm have a 50 gallon Rez flooding a 4x4 table canna nutrients a&b. my question is I've been running the tea for about a month now and my ph keep jumping up from 5.8 to 7.4 about every 24 hours. I don't have the cleer slime anymore just the brown slime from the tea. I add about one gallon to my 50 gallon Rez every 3 days or so. Is this normal?

Thanks,


----------



## hellraizer30 (May 8, 2013)

Land said:


> HR I'm have a 50 gallon Rez flooding a 4x4 table canna nutrients a&b. my question is I've been running the tea for about a month now and my ph keep jumping up from 5.8 to 7.4 about every 24 hours. I don't have the cleer slime anymore just the brown slime from the tea. I add about one gallon to my 50 gallon Rez every 3 days or so. Is this normal?
> 
> Thanks,


To much tea bro... Try this

at the time of a new res add 1 gal for every 10 gals of res water and not to exceed 3gal of tea for 50gal.
after three days do a tea add back! Add 1cup for every ten gals, and dont add more than 3cups for 50gal.


and add every three there after. You are adding to much tea and that amount of good bactiria is spiking your
ph.


----------



## Land (May 9, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> To much tea bro... Try this
> 
> at the time of a new res add 1 gal for every 10 gals of res water and not to exceed 3gal of tea for 50gal.
> after three days do a tea add back! Add 1cup for every ten gals, and dont add more than 3cups for 50gal.
> ...


Thank you my friend! You're a life saver.


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## hellraizer30 (May 9, 2013)

If that dont fix it we can go over other stuff later on!


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## Land (May 10, 2013)

Sounds good bro. I just cleaned everything up today. I only have about a week left before harvest so I might just not even add the tea and kinda see what happens. Unless you think I should add it?

thanks


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## hellraizer30 (May 10, 2013)

Land said:


> Sounds good bro. I just cleaned everything up today. I only have about a week left before harvest so I might just not even add the tea and kinda see what happens. Unless you think I should add it?
> 
> thanks


1 week i wouldnt even bother...


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## georgeforeman (May 30, 2013)

hey guys, really doing great with e&g and rockwool. Had my best harvest in 2 years last week . Big thanks to HR and everyone here.

just had a large outbreak of fungus gnats. I have been doing preventative maintenance with the mosquito bits where i would sprinkle them on top of the rockwool and then top-feed. This has been working great for 2-3 months, but this past week the yellow cards have trapped at least 30 fliers. Any suggestions on system tweaks?
My thoughts:
-raise the buckets a coupe more inches. Will help dry out the top few inches of rockwool, but rockwool has powerful wicking action.
-add 1-2 inch of hydroton to the top of each bucket. Will stay dry and hurt the gnats prime breeding grounds.
-possible use of nematodes


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## legallyflying (May 30, 2013)

I ahven't had good luck with the nematodes. My favorite is hydroton and diotomaceous earth. If you can keep the hydroton dry, coat it with DE and your problem is DONE! they can crawl through the DE without getting cut to shreds


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## hellraizer30 (May 30, 2013)

@george 

Best shit i have found for gnats is thanotos shit 100% organic and it melts them! And i say melts cause you
can watch it melt them to nothing lol

great to hear shits working out for you!


----------



## georgeforeman (May 31, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> @george
> 
> Best shit i have found for gnats is thanotos shit 100% organic and it melts them! And i say melts cause you
> can watch it melt them to nothing lol
> ...


you got a link for thanotos, google and amazon search turned up nothing.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 1, 2013)

I get it at the local shop but heres a link to the label


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## legallyflying (Jun 1, 2013)

Ummm no link


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jun 1, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> Ummm no link


Shit lol........


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 1, 2013)

http://www.waterworkshydroponics.com/

heres the link
thanatos for mites, thrips and gnats
mighty was for mites and thrips


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## 10thPlanetjj (Jun 5, 2013)

Hellraizer, please help. Im running a titan 12 site flo n gro with two 1000's with a 600 in the middle. Running the lucas formula with gh micro and bloom, with 50% h202 every 3 days. Im 10 days into veg and two of my plants are having really strange new growth, almost deformed, but still a good green color. They are in between plants in the line and the others are doing great with no issues. The two bad ones are rooted out the bottom of the net pots and look ok. What could be causing just the two to do that? Ph at a constant 5.8 or 5.9, res temp at 71 right now, wich could be alittle cooler but others are fine.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 5, 2013)

10thPlanetjj said:


> Hellraizer, please help. Im running a titan 12 site flo n gro with two 1000's with a 600 in the middle. Running the lucas formula with gh micro and bloom, with 50% h202 every 3 days. Im 10 days into veg and two of my plants are having really strange new growth, almost deformed, but still a good green color. They are in between plants in the line and the others are doing great with no issues. The two bad ones are rooted out the bottom of the net pots and look ok. What could be causing just the two to do that? Ph at a constant 5.8 or 5.9, res temp at 71 right now, wich could be alittle cooler but others are fine.


Can you post pics of these 2 plants? Sounds like if ph is good and roots look good, temps are a bit high but not real bad!
but im not a fan of h202 though.


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## 10thPlanetjj (Jun 5, 2013)

The first 3 are pics are the funky ones obviously. The last 3 are some that are before and after in the line, they look ok too me. Not sure whats goin on.


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## 10thPlanetjj (Jun 5, 2013)

looks like the order got messed up but you can figure it out


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 5, 2013)

Are those from seed?


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 6, 2013)

I cant speak for the make up of whats in it.. But i can tell you first hand it 
kills thrips/mites/gnats like its nobodys biz lol


----------



## Mithrandir420 (Jun 6, 2013)

I am going to remember it. I hate mites. Anything that helps kill them is good.


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## 10thPlanetjj (Jun 6, 2013)

No, they are MOB clones. All of the clones looked alright but not great, I had to bring em back. The two bad ones looked fine with normal growth the first 3 or 4 days, then craziness.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jun 6, 2013)

10thPlanetjj said:


> No, they are MOB clones. All of the clones looked alright but not great, I had to bring em back. The two bad ones looked fine with normal growth the first 3 or 4 days, then craziness.


It looked like some kind of mutation


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## 10thPlanetjj (Jun 6, 2013)

Alright, Im just going to continue with them if they stay green and dont affect anything else. Maybe Ill end up with some elephant man bud


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## 10thPlanetjj (Jun 6, 2013)

Hellraizer, another question if you wouldn't mind.
This is the first time I run the lucas formula and I feel like my plants might need more than the 0-8-16 at some point. Would adding alittle gro to take up the slack throw anything off? Maybe run the traditional during veg and 5/8/16 or something for bud? And if thats the case would I mix up the new rez with the 5/8/16 right when I witch the lights to 12/12? Any input on using bloom additives like liquid kool bloom with lucas would be appreciated also.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jun 6, 2013)

I have in the past run lucas and found 5/8/16 a much more effective ratio!
although most my girls are hungry feeders 5/8/16 works for them if your
feeding light feeders 0/8/16 might be just fine


----------



## 10thPlanetjj (Jun 7, 2013)

Did you use the 5/8/16 through veg and bud?


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 7, 2013)

In veg it was 0/5/8 and in flower it was 5/8/16


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## legallyflying (Jun 7, 2013)

Ok after another slime battle in DWC I converted everything back to ebb an grow type system 

Pretty fucking substrate mix that is kind of Hempy bucket like. Interested to see the results 

It's about:
80% course perlite
10% coco
10% old hydroton
And a good dose of ancient forest. 

I'll keep you posed on results


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jun 8, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> Ok after another slime battle in DWC I converted everything back to ebb an grow type system
> 
> Pretty fucking substrate mix that is kind of Hempy bucket like. Interested to see the results
> 
> ...


Im sold on coco.... Been playing with chow type mixes to

I believe chow= hydrotron and soiless medium like humbolt super hydro at least thats what im testing.

but biggest yields so far in plain cana coco


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## legallyflying (Jun 8, 2013)

Interesting. So straight up coco in ebb flow? My buddy is rocking Hempy buckets..which is pretty damn close to eb and flow really an he uses about 10% coco. All the rest perlite. He swears by the coco increasing quality though. 

I loved my DWC. Sooooo fast growth, but it really is a pain in the ass and is gear intensive. I'm going back to basics.


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## PetFlora (Jun 8, 2013)

Not sure I posted my hybrid grow method here. I combine 6" net pot lids + 4 liter Air Pots + lava rock + ornamental stones (cap) and spray from the top via Hydro Halo Drip Rings: using a 320 gph pump changes drip to a spray . 

Nutes quickly flow to bottom, some collecting in between the nooks and crannies in the lava rock, thus keeping root hairs happy between feedings. 

Due to fast drain, I am currently feeding every 30 minutes during lights on. 

By using individual APs, I can move plants around 




If interested come on by


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 8, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> Interesting. So straight up coco in ebb flow? My buddy is rocking Hempy buckets..which is pretty damn close to eb and flow really an he uses about 10% coco. All the rest perlite. He swears by the coco increasing quality though.
> 
> I loved my DWC. Sooooo fast growth, but it really is a pain in the ass and is gear intensive. I'm going back to basics.


Not ebb & flow the coco is full on drain to waste but there less waste then ebb&flow
results are way better, plus i can leave for days without issues


----------



## drekoushranada (Jun 17, 2013)

Hello people, I have an ebb and flow table set up with drip lines because my res was not big enough. My question is if I was to leave the drippers running constantly will I see and bad affects? I am in flower right now and I did this during veg and the plants seemed to love it. The are under a 600w hps. Thanks!


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 17, 2013)

drekoushranada said:


> Hello people, I have an ebb and flow table set up with drip lines because my res was not big enough. My question is if I was to leave the drippers running constantly will I see and bad affects? I am in flower right now and I did this during veg and the plants seemed to love it. The are under a 600w hps. Thanks!


What type of medium you using?


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## drekoushranada (Jun 17, 2013)

Lava rocks as medium.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 17, 2013)

drekoushranada said:


> Lava rocks as medium.


Lava is alot like hydroton 

so i would feed like you would with the ton.
feed x4 for 15min during lights on for bloom


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## PetFlora (Jun 17, 2013)

Although similar, lava rock has unique properties in that its' textured surface will hold small amounts of nutrient. Roots love this and grow root hairs all over the rocks like cob webs. This also allows for more frequent feedings. I am now feeding from the Halo Drip Rings every 10 seconds every 15 minutes, during lights on. Pics in my thread.


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## drekoushranada (Jun 17, 2013)

Well it is now that they don't have a constant feed they are starting to yellow up a bit as if they are hungry. I will work on feeding them more and see what happens.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 17, 2013)

drekoushranada said:


> Well it is now that they don't have a constant feed they are starting to yellow up a bit as if they are hungry. I will work on feeding them more and see what happens.


Can give me a idea of your feeding?
what nutes?
how much?


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## drekoushranada (Jun 17, 2013)

They have been in flower for 3 weeks and I am feeding at 1100ppm. The nutes are dyna gro bloom with a bit of grow formula as well. The PH is at 5.8


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 17, 2013)

So i dont get confused your saying there yellowing do to you cutting back how much you water
or because your cutting back the ppms?


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## legallyflying (Jun 18, 2013)

If your at 1100 and yellowing I would bump it up to 1300 or so. The extra should be veg formula. Might as well add a splash of calmag as well. Without pictures, sounds like low N


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## joe macclennan (Jun 18, 2013)

drekoushranada said:


> Well it is now that they don't have a constant feed they are starting to yellow up a bit as if they are hungry. I will work on feeding them more and see what happens.


homebrewer has a great thread on dynagro nutes.https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/429438-dyna-gro-vs-advanced-nutrients.html I've used dynagro off and on for a while now. It is way more potent than a lot of other synthetics out there. I have been running about 1.8-2.0 ec and it seems too hot. Hb suggests running ec as low as .8 while running DG. You may be feeding too much. Either way we really need to know what scale your meter read tds in. 

Anyways I have been experimenting with the dynagrow 7-9-5 in flower and am really liking the results vs. the 3-12-6. 

When I was running straight bloom 3-12-6 at around week three flower I would star getting significant yellowing of the lower leaves and quite a few dropping. An obvious N deff. Since running the 7-9-5 virtually no yellowing or drop. I am about a month in now on the veg. nutes in flower. 

Like legally said and based on my exp. with dg bloom it sounds like N.


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## legallyflying (Jun 18, 2013)

In general, people are of base thinking that when plants flower they no longer need nitrogen. Like some kind of switch goes off and the no longer need it, or giving them nitrogen is going to stunt the flowers. MJ has explosive growth trigger by photoperiod shifts; they need PLENTY of nitrogen to support this growth. 

For whatever it's worth I run grow nutes the first week, 50/50 the second and don't go full bloom nutes till the third week.


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## drekoushranada (Jun 18, 2013)

I will adjust per you all suggestions. In my UC system I didn't have problems as such. I guess it is part of the ebb and flow learning curve...


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## akpaco (Jun 20, 2013)

HR,

So I'm using the canna with aqua shield and root excel. My ppm's minus my tap water are about 200. Water temp is about 70* and ph 5.7. Right now I'm just hand watering them because I'm kinda holding off transfering them because of this crazy weather. Been watering about every 2 days. I've went up a little on the ppms to about 350-400 and then back down. I know my ph is right on now because I'm using the canna now instead of the ph perfect. But I can't get them to stop burning/deficiency? I don't know! It's not real bad but drives me crazy. I've attached some pics. Could it possibly be calmag? I did come across some threads where people added calmag when growing master kush. Any thoughts?

Thanks!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jun 20, 2013)

Pic #2 looks like nute burn, theres a small amout of claw there.

this is how i look at it
tap water 160
add cal-mag to get 200
then add base at 1/4 strength
then roots excel

And see if theres a change.....

how long they been in the blocks?


----------



## ringlead3r (Jun 20, 2013)

I say its a combo of N deficient and a ph issue because u didn't pre soak u blocks just a guess


----------



## akpaco (Jun 20, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> Pic #2 looks like nute burn, theres a small amout of claw there.
> 
> this is how i look at it
> tap water 160
> ...


Thanks for the quick response!! I'm watering today so I'll give that a try. It is a new strain for me so I'm sure I'm going to run into this stuff till I get it figured out. I'm ocd when it comes to this and I want it perfect! I'd say they've been in the blocks about a month. Pic 2 is just a shitty pic. It seems to me that the new growth starts out a little pale and when it grows out like the stuff underneath it in the pics it starts browning. Thanks again bro!


----------



## akpaco (Jun 20, 2013)

ringlead3r said:


> I say its a combo of N deficient and a ph issue because u didn't pre soak u blocks just a guess



Always pre soak the blocks in 5.5. Not sure about the N deficiency. Probably not a ph issue since I use a hanna grochek meter and re check it with ph liquid. But who knows!


----------



## ringlead3r (Jun 20, 2013)

drgreentm said:


> whats up guys, been getting pm's about the perlite grow so i figured i would post some pics from today so everybody can see how they are doing. they look great, they are about 28 days in today and the dm gold seems to be doing ok, not sure if its going to significantly increase the yield but they look healthy. someone asked me about watering and want to clarify i havent changed my watering schedule, it is the same as when i ran with hydroton. i water x3 within a 12 hour periode in flower of course, and water x4 in 24 hours in veg.


I want to see a pic of ur roots on ur perlite flood table grow if u would I ran perlite and had a hard time watering 1 time a day without seeing overwatering


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## GreenDyl (Jun 20, 2013)

Hey what's up everybody, just wondering if I could get some help with some ph issues. I'm using the Titan ebb and grow 5 gal buckets. I'm having terrible ph fluctuation where my ph will go from 5.5 to 7.2 overnight. I'm using heavy 16 nutrients which is veg a and b, roots excel from house and garden, heavy 16 prime, and like 2 scoops of great white. First I was using airstones in my Rex but the guy at heavy 16 told me I shouldn't use any airstones just a recirc pump. Plants are like a foot tall and are looking kinda sad and its been a week since the transplant. Wondering what I can do to stabilize the ph.


----------



## doniawon (Jun 20, 2013)

GreenDyl said:


> Hey what's up everybody, just wondering if I could get some help with some ph issues. I'm using the Titan ebb and grow 5 gal buckets. I'm having terrible ph fluctuation where my ph will go from 5.5 to 7.2 overnight. I'm using heavy 16 nutrients which is veg a and b, roots excel from house and garden, heavy 16 prime, and like 2 scoops of great white. First I was using airstones in my Rex but the guy at heavy 16 told me I shouldn't use any airstones just a recirc pump. Plants are like a foot tall and are looking kinda sad and its been a week since the transplant. Wondering what I can do to stabilize the ph.


u might want to mention your ec/ppm levels for the op.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jun 20, 2013)

GreenDyl said:


> Hey what's up everybody, just wondering if I could get some help with some ph issues. I'm using the Titan ebb and grow 5 gal buckets. I'm having terrible ph fluctuation where my ph will go from 5.5 to 7.2 overnight. I'm using heavy 16 nutrients which is veg a and b, roots excel from house and garden, heavy 16 prime, and like 2 scoops of great white. First I was using airstones in my Rex but the guy at heavy 16 told me I shouldn't use any airstones just a recirc pump. Plants are like a foot tall and are looking kinda sad and its been a week since the transplant. Wondering what I can do to stabilize the ph.


Heavy 16 prime is some thick stuff! 16 can be tricky in a titan! 

Unless your in soil or your brewing that great white i would switch to orca....
heres my thought on the titan or anyother like system.

you need to keep the water moving in the rez... I installed a pump the runs 15min every hour.
this pump pulls water up and then back to the res like a water fall.
keeping the water moving will help combat the bacteria, ph will raise
always in the event you have a outbreak.

heavy full line is dirty and more catered to dtw....
if you want performace and cleaness go with canna


also start brewing tea its a must! A simple aquashield/orca/ewc/mollases 
tea wil kill it lol in a good way


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## GreenDyl (Jun 21, 2013)

The ppm is at 850, do you think zone would help out? I have a recirc pump I leave on 24/7.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 21, 2013)

GreenDyl said:


> The ppm is at 850, do you think zone would help out? I have a recirc pump I leave on 24/7.



Zone will not help.
you can try a number of things like
h202 
bleach
zone 

but nothing touchs a well brewed tea


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## GreenDyl (Jun 21, 2013)

I used the tea before I just feel like it didn't really resolve the ph issue, like the roots are super white there's no slime on them


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## legallyflying (Jun 21, 2013)

I would seriously cut out all the other shit your adding except base nutrients. 

Seriously, all that shit is completely unnecessary. I've been there. Roots excel, liquid light, great white, blah blah blah. End of the day? Fucking waste of money...especially if you don't know what your doing with it. Like running an airstone with roots excell....instant gunk! And ph FUNK. 

Dump, rinse, refill with base grow nutes at 600-700. Leave them alone. I would be SHOCKED if you had root rot in ebb flow. 
BTW..love great white...but you only need to add it once or twice if you have some medium for it to establish in. 

Cheers


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## akpaco (Jun 27, 2013)

HR,

Here are a few pics. Going to transplant today. Can I run air stones with orca? 

Thanks!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jun 27, 2013)

Orca and air stones works great no issues there..





looks like a zink deff......paco


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## Belle of Buds (Jun 29, 2013)

Wow, this is a great thread! I've been doing lots of reading and I finally have my very own DIY Ebb and Flow system set up and running. Everything is going really well. I'm subbed up here because there is so much good info here!

Here's my set up.

View attachment 2718347


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## akpaco (Jun 29, 2013)

Belle of Buds said:


> Wow, this is a great thread! I've been doing lots of reading and I finally have my very own DIY Ebb and Flow system set up and running. Everything is going really well. I'm subbed up here because there is so much good info here!
> 
> Here's my set up.
> 
> View attachment 2718347


Good luck!! What strain are you growing?


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## Belle of Buds (Jun 29, 2013)

akpaco said:


> Good luck!! What strain are you growing?


Thanks! the three clones on the left are Veneno and the 9 seedlings are Bubba 76.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 29, 2013)

Hey belle how high do you flood that table?


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## Belle of Buds (Jun 29, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> Hey belle how high do you flood that table?


Hi Hellraizer. I started it at 2" for the first week and then I added another extender and I flood to 3" now. That's probably as high as I'm gonna go. That goes to the top of the net pots.


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 29, 2013)

Watch for floating hydroton but it sounds like your floading high enough! Getting water to the roots till they
get rooted in good is important. Once you see them get growing you could go back to 2in


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## Belle of Buds (Jun 30, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> Watch for floating hydroton but it sounds like your floading high enough! Getting water to the roots till they
> get rooted in good is important. Once you see them get growing you could go back to 2in


Thanks for the input. Um... I do have floating hydroton... is that bad? And I am starting to see little white tips starting to peek out of the rocks so my roots are def growing! When should I cut it back to 2"?


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## hellraizer30 (Jun 30, 2013)

Belle of Buds said:


> Thanks for the input. Um... I do have floating hydroton... is that bad? And I am starting to see little white tips starting to peek out of the rocks so my roots are def growing! When should I cut it back to 2"?


I once had a 2x4 table setup with hydroton almost the same as you.. And when i flooded 
i went to much and the net pots started to roll over  was a pain in the ass till i backed
off the amount of water.


thats a concrete mixing tub right?


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## Belle of Buds (Jun 30, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> I once had a 2x4 table setup with hydroton almost the same as you.. And when i flooded
> i went to much and the net pots started to roll over  was a pain in the ass till i backed
> off the amount of water.
> 
> ...


I'm a bit obsessive about my plants... I spend hours sitting on a little stool, staring at them and "thinking". So I've been there and watched the flood numerous times. My pots are stable. When I set it up, I put the pots in first and then filled in around them with the hydroton. There was some initial "drift" but everything seems pretty settled now. There are a few floaters that wander around the table, maybe 30% or less. They float a bit and then seem to settle pretty much in the same configuration each time. 

And yeah, that's a concrete mixing tub from Home Depot. I used to despise that store... till I started growing. Then suddenly the plumbing and electrical departments became my favorite haunts. My first grow was under an ever expanding canopy of CFL's. I started with 4 and by the time my plants were done, I had 19 bulbs, strung on a single extension cord that I made myself. Sucker was 12 feet long and I just wrapped it around a wire shelf and hung it over my plants.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jul 1, 2013)

Yah i got a few of thos tubs for mixing coco  cheap and effective


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## joe macclennan (Jul 1, 2013)

Belle of Buds said:


> I'm a bit obsessive about my plants... I spend hours sitting on a little stool, staring at them and "thinking". .



and who said "watching the grass grow" isn't fun?


----------



## akpaco (Jul 2, 2013)




----------



## hellraizer30 (Jul 3, 2013)

I will pm you paco


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## Belle of Buds (Jul 4, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> and who said "watching the grass grow" isn't fun?


Right? I have a folding bungee chair, a stool for my pipe/weed/lighter/pokey/phone ensemble, a pillow for my laptop and I could sit in there for hours. Since my grow is in my master bathroom, the family sometimes wonders if I have intestinal issues since I spend so much time in the bathroom.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jul 4, 2013)

Belle of Buds said:


> Right? I have a folding bungee chair, a stool for my pipe/weed/lighter/pokey/phone ensemble, a pillow for my laptop and I could sit in there for hours. Since my grow is in my master bathroom, the family sometimes wonders if I have intestinal issues since I spend so much time in the bathroom.


Haha... ......


----------



## GreenDyl (Jul 7, 2013)

This is in a Oceanus ebb n Gro system, using just heavy 16 base nutes. Any clue what this is?


----------



## GreenDyl (Jul 7, 2013)

Wondering what I can do nutrient wise to beef up this grow a little. Had bad ph rising issues and I am not seeing the root growth I should be. Thinking of putting airstones in buckets because I think the standing water is fuckin plants up. Got 4 systems with 18 sites each. Only running heavy a and b base nutrients and today I put hydrogen peroxide In the mix to see if it fixed my ph problems. Was using prime and roots excel but I felt they in combination were causing ph problems cause prime is mostly organic. Not using any airstones in Rez just recirc pumps
A few questions-
1. What other nutrients can I add in to make this grow a huge success in regards to mostly synthetic
2. Is ph downing every day too much ph down?
3. Any other tips to help me pull this 20k watt grow off


----------



## drekoushranada (Jul 7, 2013)

Hellraizer30 do you have an idea what can be up with these few plants. This is the first week of flower and they are under a 1000 watt hps. I just raised it up higher. I had to adjust the Ph to 5.5 from 6.2 . The ppm jumped from 900 to 1300 ppm but now it is adjusted back as well. The room temp is 78f and humidity is 50%. They are only being fed Dyna Gro grow and Pro Tek.


----------



## drekoushranada (Jul 7, 2013)

This is on my aero ebb and flow table. I feed at 80 seconds on and 8 minutes off. Here is a bit of root porn.


----------



## Red1966 (Jul 7, 2013)

GreenDyl said:


> View attachment 2729043This is in a Oceanus ebb n Gro system, using just heavy 16 base nutes. Any clue what this is?


 Heat stress


----------



## GreenDyl (Jul 7, 2013)

For sure? Only 4 out of 60 plants have it. And the room under the lights is no higher then 80. I did just switch the lights from 600 to 1000


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jul 8, 2013)

GreenDyl said:


> For sure? Only 4 out of 60 plants have it. And the room under the lights is no higher then 80. I did just switch the lights from 600 to 1000


Are all the plants the same strain?


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jul 8, 2013)

drekoushranada said:


> Hellraizer30 do you have an idea what can be up with these few plants. This is the first week of flower and they are under a 1000 watt hps. I just raised it up higher. I had to adjust the Ph to 5.5 from 6.2 . The ppm jumped from 900 to 1300 ppm but now it is adjusted back as well. The room temp is 78f and humidity is 50%. They are only being fed Dyna Gro grow and Pro Tek.


If your referring to the weird looking leaves.. Imo its from ph being out of wack


----------



## GreenDyl (Jul 8, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> Are all the plants the same strain?


No, there's 3 diff strains in there and they all got mixed up and shit so we don't know which is which.


----------



## drekoushranada (Jul 8, 2013)

Okay. That is what I was thinking.


----------



## GreenDyl (Jul 9, 2013)

I am just going to run heisenburgs tea, heavy 16 a and b, and roots excel and see if that fixes the problem. Deff had a little bit of root rot going. The picture I took of the leaf I am thinking is a phosphorus burn, probably due to the 1280 ppm of just veg a and b I was pushing.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jul 9, 2013)

GreenDyl said:


> I am just going to run heisenburgs tea, heavy 16 a and b, and roots excel and see if that fixes the problem. Deff had a little bit of root rot going. The picture I took of the leaf I am thinking is a phosphorus burn, probably due to the 1280 ppm of just veg a and b I was pushing.


I alway say keep it simple then adjust... Sounds like thats what your going to do! Keep us posted


----------



## legallyflying (Jul 10, 2013)

I would probably leave the root excel out of that equation. But I guess if you have it already....


----------



## akpaco (Jul 10, 2013)

HR,

Got back early this morning and plants have gotten bigger but look about the same. I was wondering what flood schedule do you think I should be on for 20 3 gallon buckets with those growstones at 18/6? they seem to dry pretty fast. 

Thanks!


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jul 10, 2013)

akpaco said:


> HR,
> 
> Got back early this morning and plants have gotten bigger but look about the same. I was wondering what flood schedule do you think I should be on for 20 3 gallon buckets with those growstones at 18/6? they seem to dry pretty fast.
> 
> Thanks!


I would treat it like hydroton..... 4 or 5 time during lights on. For 15min

if there still drying out just add more lol
as long as your plant dont show overwatering
issues!



hope all was well with your trip and familly


----------



## Prop215Patient (Jul 11, 2013)

Hi guys, 

I just setup two Titan 12 site Ebb & Gro's and I'm having a issue keeping the res clean which I believe might be affecting growth. Has anyone ever run into slime with E&F? The whole reason I switched from DWC to E&F was to avoid this issue. 

I managed to get one harvest out of the system before I started to experience this, which I wiped off the walls of the res during my weekly res change:






The flower side was the first to get it, I noticed as I increased the feeding PPMs the slime would also increase. I tried to run a sterile res using 2ppm of Chlorine in 45 gal of RO water, which worked for a few weeks then the slime started to creep back, so I increased to 4ppm which helped but now even at that level I get the results you see above. I used H&G Aqua Flakes initially which had a tad less slime than the MaxiGro powder I'm currently using. I had a powerhead aerating the res, now I've added 3 air stones per which seems to bubble it nicely. Now the Veg side is getting traces of this same problem. 

Now attempting a active res via the Heisenberg Tea which just got added yesterday so I'm hoping for the best, but it just doesn't seem like the typical slime that attacks the roots as there is some ok root growth but nothing spectacular. 

Any ideas, I've emailed various tech support depts at nute companies and a bunch of hydro shops with no real solutions. I'm considering switch to EF tables, as I have a test table setup at another location and even with slime in the res the growth looks superb.

-Prop215


----------



## GreenDyl (Jul 11, 2013)

Looks like the same shit I'm battling, gave me a horrible case of root rot. Also just started my tea yesterday.


----------



## hellraizer30 (Jul 11, 2013)

Hiesenberg tea will solve that slime


----------



## Prop215Patient (Jul 11, 2013)

GreenDyl said:


> Looks like the same shit I'm battling, gave me a horrible case of root rot. Also just started my tea yesterday.


dang that sucks man, hopefully the tea does the trick for us. Keep us posted as will I!



hellraizer30 said:


> Hiesenberg tea will solve that slime


i hope so HR! Thanks for this thread! Hope to add some good info soon!

-P215


----------



## joe macclennan (Jul 11, 2013)

I hope the tea works. If not increase bleach dosage. It will kill the slime and is cheap and easy. I started with the bleach levels uber high when my slime was at its peak. Since then I am running way lower amounts and my rez temps are running even higher than they were. https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/655319-using-bleach.html

How many times are you flooding and what are rez and root temps?


----------



## MoJobud (Jul 11, 2013)

I keep telling myself to brew some tea but damn, using bleach is too easy. Only minor issue is that I do use 30% more ph down than I normally do. I use 1.5g per gallon mixed at 1oz per gal.


----------



## joe macclennan (Jul 11, 2013)

MoJobud said:


> I keep telling myself to brew some tea but damn, using bleach is too easy. Only minor issue is that I do use 30% more ph down than I normally do. I use 1.5g per gallon mixed at 1oz per gal.


I am at way lower levels than that now. 2g/gallon mixed at 2oz/50 gallons as an avg. 

Last week my rez. temps were 75deg f and higher and I had to up my dose to 4oz/50 gallons. Rez. is still crystal clear. 

Ph seems relatively unaffected at these levels

Happy Happy Happy


----------



## MoJobud (Jul 11, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> I am at way lower levels than that now. 2g/gallon mixed at 2oz/50 gallons as an avg.
> 
> Last week my rez. temps were 75deg f and higher and I had to up my dose to 4oz/50 gallons. Rez. is still crystal clear.
> 
> ...


How often are you hitting it with bleach?


----------



## MoJobud (Jul 11, 2013)

Oops meant to say 1oz per 5 gal


----------



## joe macclennan (Jul 12, 2013)

MoJobud said:


> How often are you hitting it with bleach?


Once at rez change I am adding 2-4 oz of the solution/50 gallons. It is lasting a week or better without redosing. (thank goodness)

With a clear rez at the end of nute mix life.


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## legallyflying (Jul 12, 2013)

I will say this, if your going to relie on bleach, you should have a chlorine meter. Bleach just doesn't stay around, it's an oxidizer just like h2o2. That's how it works. I had some slime and I shocked the system with 8ppm of bleach. Came back 2 hours later, it was at .5 ppm. A single dose will certainly not last a week. Especially only 2ppm. 

Strange you have slime in EF though. Reduce your watering frequency perhaps. Or, run the tea. The plants love that shit!! 

Hell raiser. We're you the one just using pondzyme instead of the tea?


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## joe macclennan (Jul 12, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> I will say this, if your going to relie on bleach, you should have a chlorine meter. Bleach just doesn't stay around, it's an oxidizer just like h2o2. That's how it works. I had some slime and I shocked the system with 8ppm of bleach. Came back 2 hours later, it was at .5 ppm. A single dose will certainly not last a week. Especially only 2ppm.
> 
> Strange you have slime in EF though. Reduce your watering frequency perhaps. Or, run the tea. The plants love that shit!!
> 
> Hell raiser. We're you the one just using pondzyme instead of the tea?



I understand that it dissipates. All I can say is One dose IS keeping MY rez. clean for one week +

This wasn't the case a month ago. I had to redose every three days.

I agree with you on possibly reducing water frequency. This is the #1easiest way to help with rez/root problems imo.

Edit: those chlorine testers only test free chlorine in the water. Not nitomines which is what chlorine degrades to or something of that nature. Basically the way I understand it. Once the bleach hits organic material it oxidizes it and turns into nitromines. which is harmful to plants in the same way chlorine can be if at high enough levels. Only the testers don't see it. 

Therefore redosing based off chlorine testers can be detrimental. This info. may not be exact but the gist of it is sound. I got it from user 1itsme who is in the pool business.


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## joe macclennan (Jul 12, 2013)

Originally posted by 1itsme"
smell is not a good indication of chlorine concentration, heres why. bleach (sodium hypochlorite), and pool chlorine (theres like 3-4 different chems used as chlorine for pools) dont have a particularly strong chlorine smell. when it's in a pool (or res) it reacts with organic material (usualy something with n like protiens or ammonia) and forms nitromines. niromines stink like chlorine and arent as efficient as sanitizers (they do stay in solution alot longer tho). when your doing a pool route and ppl complain about too much chlorine hurting their eyes, (generaly right @ the time algae starts showing up), the way you fix it is to shock the pool. eg. you add more chlorine -raise the avail chlorine lvls at least 10x higher than the nitromine lvls. what that does is cause the amonia to turn to a gas and come out of solution. ppl usualy think theres less chlorine the day after you shock a pool bc it doesnt smell or burn their eyes. of course its not true there's way more. yoiu need 2 different tests to tell how much chlorine there is. personaly i would avoid any organic material in the res (also any amonia or urea based n) while you are using chlorine as it will significantly reduce the effect of the chlorine as a sanitizer. hth & gl​



Ok here is the post. about chlorine and how it reacts with organic matter and such.


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## legallyflying (Jul 12, 2013)

Good info I thought that total chlorine testers measured both free and ummm, not free? Chlorine. 

I never had good luck going the chorine route. I would love to learn how though as the slime is basically why I ditched DWC and went back to EF this round.


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## Prop215Patient (Jul 12, 2013)

joe macclennan said:


> Once at rez change I am adding 2-4 oz of the solution/50 gallons. It is lasting a week or better without redosing. (thank goodness)
> 
> With a clear rez at the end of nute mix life.



hi joe,

how long have you been running those levels of bleach? That seems very high compared to my 24/ml daily dose of bleach and I thought I was on the extreme end. That's what it took to maintain 4ppm of free chlorine in my system. Have you measured yours using a chlorimeter? Be interesting in what you find.



joe macclennan said:


> Originally posted by 1itsme"
> smell is not a good indication of chlorine concentration, heres why. bleach (sodium hypochlorite), and pool chlorine (theres like 3-4 different chems used as chlorine for pools) dont have a particularly strong chlorine smell. when it's in a pool (or res) it reacts with organic material (usualy something with n like protiens or ammonia) and forms nitromines. niromines stink like chlorine and arent as efficient as sanitizers (they do stay in solution alot longer tho). when your doing a pool route and ppl complain about too much chlorine hurting their eyes, (generaly right @ the time algae starts showing up), the way you fix it is to shock the pool. eg. you add more chlorine -raise the avail chlorine lvls at least 10x higher than the nitromine lvls. what that does is cause the amonia to turn to a gas and come out of solution. ppl usualy think theres less chlorine the day after you shock a pool bc it doesnt smell or burn their eyes. of course its not true there's way more. yoiu need 2 different tests to tell how much chlorine there is. personaly i would avoid any organic material in the res *(also any amonia or urea based n)* while you are using chlorine as it will significantly reduce the effect of the chlorine as a sanitizer. hth & gl​
> 
> 
> ...


very interesting! I noticed when we were using the chlorine and switched from H&G to MaxiGro which has more ammonia based N, the slime seems to increase as well. Anyone know why this is? 

I wonder if this has been my issue all along. Problem is, what nute DOESN'T have ammonia based N in it?



legallyflying said:


> Good info I thought that total chlorine testers measured both free and ummm, not free? Chlorine.
> 
> I never had good luck going the chorine route. I would love to learn how though as the slime is basically why I ditched DWC and went back to EF this round.


Same here, hope to find an answer as well!

-P215


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## joe macclennan (Jul 12, 2013)

Prop215Patient said:


> hi joe,
> 
> how long have you been running those levels of bleach? That seems very high compared to my 24/ml daily dose of bleach and I thought I was on the extreme end. That's what it took to maintain 4ppm of free chlorine in my system. Have you measured yours using a chlorimeter? Be interesting in what you find.
> 
> ...



I started running it about two months ago. I was using h202 with little positive benefits. There were a series of problems that caused my slime/root rot problems. Gnats infestation and poor drainage were the most detrimental. I fixed them and ran out of the h202 so I started using pool shock/ cal. hypo. until my order of h202 came in. 

The peroxide didn't faze this slime. The pool shock kicks it's ass. 2grams of poolshock(48% cal.hypo)/gallon of water. I am using 2-4 oz of this mixture per 50 gallons of rez. Dyna gro nutes. 

I started running absurdly high levels of this solution. About 1oz/gallon rez. This was way too high and fried some roots. It was a completely new thing for me though and the slime was outta control. In three days with no sterilizers my rez would be ruined. I have been reducing my dose to where I am now and am very happy with the results. Even with the higher rez. temps I am seeing now. 

It was quite a ride but things have settled down now. My story https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/655319-using-bleach-4.html#post9275810

good luck, hope you get it under control


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## joe macclennan (Jul 12, 2013)

legallyflying said:


> Good info I thought that total chlorine testers measured both free and ummm, not free? Chlorine.
> 
> I never had good luck going the chorine route. I would love to learn how though as the slime is basically why I ditched DWC and went back to EF this round.


It is working great in both my e&g and f&d systems at the doses I described. 

Rez. temps as high as 75f with airstones


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## GreenDyl (Jul 12, 2013)

Did that stabilize your ph pretty good?


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## joe macclennan (Jul 12, 2013)

ph stable yes.


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## GreenDyl (Jul 13, 2013)

Hmm I'm trying to run bennies at the moment and its a lot of extra work. Thinking about running the Hth or bleach or whatever but I realized that with the nutrients I am using, I have a lot of Ammonia or whatever, wondering if that will fuck up my nutes with the bleach.


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## joe macclennan (Jul 13, 2013)

Probably, what kind of nutes ya runnin?


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## GreenDyl (Jul 13, 2013)

Heavy 16. I have a little standing water in my buckets and I wonder if the pool shock would burn my plants


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## GreenDyl (Jul 13, 2013)

The buckets are raised but there's always a little water in there you know?


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## joe macclennan (Jul 13, 2013)

not familiar with heavy 16. As far as the water in the buckets goes no you will be fine. My buckets always have a half inch or so in em too.


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## GreenDyl (Jul 13, 2013)

Hmm we'll that makes me feel better. What exactly do you use? The cal hypo 48%? And what exactly should I be looking for that will react with this?


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## GreenDyl (Jul 14, 2013)

Here's what's in the veg a and b


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## joe macclennan (Jul 14, 2013)

the amoniacal nitrogen and urea will. But the total for the two is less than 1 percent so I think you will be alright. The more dead or decaying material in your rez will funk it up too(roots,leaves etc.) 


mix 2grams 48%cal hypo/gallon(pool shock) use this mixture to dose your [email protected] 1ml/gallon if that doesn't work keep upping it till it does. I wouldn't go over 10ml/gallon tho. 1-3ml/gallon is all I have to use anymore. depending on how bad your problem is you may have to redose after a few days. Make sure to change your rez at one week. 

using this stuff is the easiest thing since presliced bread. any more questions come over herehttps://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/655319-using-bleach-4.html#post9332113

No need to jack hellraizers thread too much.


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## Prop215Patient (Jul 14, 2013)

Hi everyone,

So the first week using the Tea in E&F is interesting. The slime seems to come back in the res almost overnight but the roots are the healthiest I've ever seen. I also think the growth overall has improved but time will tell.

Wondering if a clear res shouldn't be the goal after all...will keep everyone posted!

-P215


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## GreenDyl (Jul 14, 2013)

I feel you, I am a huge fan of hellraiZer as he is one of the most knowledgeable people on this site. Much love, gotta try both sides of the fence!


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## oddlifter (Jul 14, 2013)

Hellraizer,

Do you think I could flower the ebb and grow 12 site in a 4x4 tent? If not how many do you think I could flower in a 4x4?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 14, 2013)

oddlifter said:


> Hellraizer,
> 
> Do you think I could flower the ebb and grow 12 site in a 4x4 tent? If not how many do you think I could flower in a 4x4?



You could put as many buckets that would fit in a 4x4 foot print but you will have to veg alot less!
it would be more of a sog setup. If you went sog i would only veg till i saw new growth after transplant
then flip to 12/12

4x4 with 2weeks veg would be 6 plants max better with 4 plants


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## oddlifter (Jul 14, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> You could put as many buckets that would fit in a 4x4 foot print but you will have to veg alot less!
> it would be more of a sog setup. If you went sog i would only veg till i saw new growth after transplant
> then flip to 12/12
> 
> 4x4 with 2weeks veg would be 6 plants max better with 4 plants


Thanks!

Do you think 6 plants vegged for 2 weeks in a 4x4 tent would be enough space to SCRoG or would the buds be too crowded?


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 14, 2013)

oddlifter said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Do you think 6 plants vegged for 2 weeks in a 4x4 tent would be enough space to SCRoG or would the buds be too crowded?



If your gunna scrog then do 4


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## akpaco (Jul 18, 2013)

HR,

Things are starting to look better! Getting ready to flip and took clones. On the plants the the fan leaves are directly above each growing bud. They all seem to be growing in vertical on each plant. Should I remove all the fan leaves that are directly covering the buds? Of course I'm hesitant to remove because I don't want to harm the plants.

Thanks!


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## hellraizer30 (Jul 22, 2013)

akpaco said:


> HR,
> 
> Things are starting to look better! Getting ready to flip and took clones. On the plants the the fan leaves are directly above each growing bud. They all seem to be growing in vertical on each plant. Should I remove all the fan leaves that are directly covering the buds? Of course I'm hesitant to remove because I don't want to harm the plants.
> 
> Thanks!


Nothing rong with thining a few leaves, i start at the bottom 1/4 and bare it of little junk and leaves when i flip
then week 2 i take a few of the large leaves that block light from getting to the center of the plant out! Then at
week 4 i thin a few more. Seems to not increase yield but make for more bag apeal in the lower stuff that normally
is smack.


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## legallyflying (Jul 22, 2013)

Foliage fight!!!!


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## Belle of Buds (Jul 22, 2013)

hellraizer30 said:


> Nothing rong with thining a few leaves, i start at the bottom 1/4 and bare it of little junk and leaves when i flip
> then week 2 i take a few of the large leaves that block light from getting to the center of the plant out! Then at
> week 4 i thin a few more. Seems to not increase yield but make for more bag apeal in the lower stuff that normally
> is smack.


That's what I had to do this weekend. I planted 12 plants (9 of which were regular seeds) in my 2' x 3' flood table, fully expecting to pull out 3-4 males... except I didn't get any. They are all looking great, but they are only starting the 3rd week of flower. I pruned a lot of the lower growth that is obviously _never_ going to see light and pretty much cleaned off the lower 1/4th of the plants.


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## Belle of Buds (Jul 22, 2013)

As you can see, it's getting "thick" in there...sorry for the crappy pic... I lost my camera... again.


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## ringlead3r (Aug 24, 2013)

Bump. Good info


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## Snowboarding420 (Aug 26, 2013)

Quick question. I am pretty sure this is in here somewhere but it has been a while since I read this and need a quick answer. Need to do a quick cleaning of the system and do not want to take apart the bottom buckets and tubing. I know that is the smartest thing to do but it is not that dirty. Is there something I can run through the system several time to kill all bacteria or bugs(if there is any) inside the bottom buckets and tubing. I will not have the top buckets in during this flush. I really do not want to run bleach through it in case of residuals. Was thinking some stronger H202 or something like that. Any suggestions? If H202 is the only suggestion where is the best place to buy it and how much should I put in a 50 gallon tank. Thanks for all the help.


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