# Some quick points for you atheists / satanists.



## Wrekstar (Sep 20, 2011)

- Their is a God, explain the universe
- Life is a test, poverty and pain exists for subjecting to God
- Satan is an arch-angel
- Atheism should not exist, why would you choose to believe in NOTHING
- Leave out the religious jokes, will not be funny when your burning in hell..
- I hope you guys find a God
- I am not a certain ' religion ' I believe their is a God, be a good human being and you will go heaven
- Blasphemy is a sin, don't take the piss..

- Before i get some satanists or atheists here makes religious remarks and stupid pictures, i'll like to tell you that i've done my bit by telling you guys, i hope you guys find a God and only one..


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## mindphuk (Sep 20, 2011)

Was it really necessary for you to start a NEW thread with this shit?


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## silasraven (Sep 20, 2011)

Wrekstar said:


> - Their is a God, explain the universe
> - Life is a test, poverty and pain exists for subjecting to God
> - Satan is an arch-angel
> - Atheism should not exist, why would you choose to believe in NOTHING
> ...


be a good human and you go to heaven? wrong answer , you have to believe in Christ as your savior and your free


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## whileilaydying (Sep 20, 2011)

my god is full of stars.


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## silasraven (Sep 20, 2011)

look at all the posts about this type of thing that totally ignore the cycle look at all of them they not hurting no one talk to them and they are awesome people to have on this earth get to know them love help them in return happy dude have the same mind set for your selves we are here to love each other and love this planet don't for get that. who cares what any believe in all in your own heart, you don't have to prove anything to anyone.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 20, 2011)

silasraven said:


> be a good human and you go to heaven? wrong answer , you have to believe in Christ as your savior and your free


Alright I'm not arguing with you but where in the bible does it say that? I have asked alot of people but nobody has ever given me an answer.


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## cannabineer (Sep 20, 2011)

whileilaydying said:


> my god is full of stars.


This looks familiar ...
cheers 'neer


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## Marlboro47 (Sep 20, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Alright I'm not arguing with you but where in the bible does it say that? I have asked alot of people but nobody has ever given me an answer.


 Keep reading bro, you'll realize when your done reading the bible you'll know so much that its sad to ever not believe in God.


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## Brazko (Sep 20, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Alright I'm not arguing with you but where in the bible does it say that? I have asked alot of people but nobody has ever given me an answer.


This is the verse that is usually construed to that thought

*John 14:6*

King James Version (KJV)


*6*Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me


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## blazinkill504 (Sep 20, 2011)

you did your part? lmao oh man that right there tells me why you believe in god.


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Sep 20, 2011)

Some Quick points for all people believer/non believer

1.This thread is highly redundant and unecessary
2.How many times dose a wheel go around before it blows out?
3.That was a question not a real point
4.I hope you find extremely simple common sense
5.Everything in this life is of the mind,this including pain,sorrow,anger everything you could be or are attached to.
6.Keep the wheel turning to prove how correct point #1 actualy is.
7.Religion is the complicator of the individual essence if im wrong then why havent all the religions found harmony and unity?,maybe its because they are to busy arguing and preaching about who is right and wrong to miss the greater point of life.
8.Refer to #1


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## silasraven (Sep 20, 2011)

i will admit i didnt want to answer you first befor brazko out of my own ignorance. thank you brazko for the passage i really had no clue where it was. and for what i can feel could come from this co0mment; we arnt perfect.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 20, 2011)

Brazko said:


> This is the verse that is usually construed to that thought
> 
> *John 14:6*
> 
> ...


 I was waiting for someone to refer to that one. Think about it though. We would be doomed to Sheol, grave, or hell without jesus' sacrifice. And that's what that passage is saying. He was saying that if it wasn't for me you don't get to meet and live with god. It doesn't say if you don't believe in me you go to hell.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 20, 2011)

Marlboro47 said:


> Keep reading bro, you'll realize when your done reading the bible you'll know so much that its sad to ever not believe in God.


I believe in god and have read and done research on alot of the bible, I'm just saying that it doesn't say people go to hell for not believing.


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## olylifter420 (Sep 20, 2011)

i couldnt agree more?

hey mp, i replied to your post on that other thread, just wondering if you saw it?





mindphuk said:


> Was it really necessary for you to start a NEW thread with this shit?


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## Luger187 (Sep 20, 2011)

Wrekstar said:


> - Their is a God, explain the universe


just because we cant explain something doesnt mean god did it. that is a leap of faith.



> - Life is a test, poverty and pain exists for subjecting to God


so rich people that have amazing lives and never have to lift a finger just arent being tested?



> - Satan is an arch-angel


you dont know that. you shouldnt say it like its fact.



> - Atheism should not exist, why would you choose to believe in NOTHING


because that is the default position. why would you choose to believe in a god that has no evidence of existence?



> - Leave out the religious jokes, will not be funny when your burning in hell..


satan is my smoking buddy. i would like to take this time to say fuck god



> - I hope you guys find a God


i hope you find an education



> - I am not a certain ' religion ' I believe their is a God, be a good human being and you will go heaven


thats nice. doesnt mean its true



> - Blasphemy is a sin, don't take the piss..


you know who i cant stand? god



> - Before i get some satanists or atheists here makes religious remarks and stupid pictures, i'll like to tell you that i've done my bit by telling you guys, i hope you guys find a God and only one..


boy that was a REALLY convincing argument(sarcasm), but i think im going to continue not believing in a made up god


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## blazinkill504 (Sep 20, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> just because we cant explain something doesnt mean god did it. that is a leap of faith.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i havent even been on the forum long, but i know i dont have to answer retarded children...you got that on lock down! haha


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## blazinkill504 (Sep 20, 2011)

+rep for that shit cause i dunno how you stay calm and calmly explain shit that the person should be able to figure out themselves.


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## Luger187 (Sep 20, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> +rep for that shit cause i dunno how you stay calm and calmly explain shit that the person should be able to figure out themselves.


lol it gets hard sometimes. i personally believe religion shouldnt even exist anymore. people should be above that by now. but the way to get there is by showing people reality, not calling them stupid for believing what they do(even though i may think that)


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## MJstudent (Sep 20, 2011)

Wrekstar said:


> - Their is a God, explain the universe
> - Life is a test, poverty and pain exists for subjecting to God
> - Satan is an arch-angel
> - Atheism should not exist, why would you choose to believe in NOTHING
> ...


explain the univers? the big bang
and atheism isnt believeing in nothing. its just not believeing theres a god most people believe in science.

has anyone watched a show on discovery called ancient aliens? its crazy. its all about how gods were actually just aliens that landed and our idiot ansestors thought they were gods. almost changed my perspective on things. although ive always believed in aliens.


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## Luger187 (Sep 20, 2011)

MJstudent said:


> explain the univers? the big bang
> and atheism isnt believeing in nothing. its just not believeing theres a god most people believe in science.
> 
> has anyone watched a show on discovery called ancient aliens? its crazy. its all about how gods were actually just aliens that landed and our idiot ansestors thought they were gods. almost changed my perspective on things. although ive always believed in aliens.


yeah some of that stuff i crazy! some of the architectural things we couldnt even do today. i find myself interested by it until this wack job gets on the screen and starts talking


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## blazinkill504 (Sep 20, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> yeah some of that stuff i crazy! some of the architectural things we couldnt even do today. i find myself interested by it until this wack job gets on the screen and starts talking


this dude is my favorite! they go a little too far on that show with some stuff to me, but that is like the only show i look foward to comin on tv.


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## karri0n (Sep 21, 2011)

Why "atheists/satanists"? The two are not remotely similar.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 21, 2011)

Nobody told me where the bible says atheists go to hell, that's what I was saying wherever I ask this question nobody could give an answer. No offense brazco


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## Brazko (Sep 21, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I was waiting for someone to refer to that one. Think about it though. We would be doomed to Sheol, grave, or hell without jesus' sacrifice. And that's what that passage is saying. He was saying that if it wasn't for me you don't get to meet and live with god. It doesn't say if you don't believe in me you go to hell.


I don't really have to think about it because I don't think that.

I just gave the answer you sought but you obviously already knew it.

I also think it had even less to with his personal sacrifice on the cross to which those words were to be implied (imo). I took it simply to mean that living a "Christ-Like" life versus a wicked-life, is the only way to truly embrace Heaven. The "Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand" not then or in the future but right now, but it cannot be seen through wicked ways.

I can parallel living a "Christ-Like" life to living a Buddhist Way of Life. However, one doesn't have to acknowledge themselves as being Christ-Like or a Buddhist to reap the awards of Heaven or Nirvana..

edit: No offense taken, lol You do well in speaking for yourself and respectfully in doing so.

Your previous actions and interactions did nothing to suggest it either.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 21, 2011)

Brazko said:


> I don't really have to think about it because I don't think that.
> 
> I just gave the answer you sought but you obviously already knew it.
> 
> ...


So do you believe good atheists that "bare good fruits" go to heaven?


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## Brazko (Sep 21, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So do you believe good atheists that "bare good fruits" go to heaven?


I think All Good People Find Heaven


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 21, 2011)

Brazko said:


> I think All Good People Find Heaven


Cool we have the same beliefs.


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## Brazko (Sep 22, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Cool we have the same beliefs.


Yep, they are pretty similar... I appreciate you and the host of others that have started to post in this section.

There was a need for more positive character and life in these threads. 

I enjoy reading the commentary exchange you and many others put forth..


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## sso (Sep 22, 2011)

lol, i found it really funny you lumped satanists and atheists together 


dude, yeah, there is a god, sorta, whether its really just a mental image created by man, thats another story.

but your god?

this hellish, evil fucker with the mentality of a egotistical 3 year old?

ill always stamp on him and laugh at him.

and if he were real?

id be the first in the rebellion.

and even if i couldnt do shit, i wouldnt care, wouldnt want to live in a world with a god like that.

love me or burn, lol what a fucking retard that god would be.

sure , possibly there is a god, probably maybe 

but i dont give a fuck, "it" aint here. just morons threatening hell to everyone disagreeing with them.



almighty powerful god, but he depends on people to do the punishing. your ilk used to burn people.

better to burn now, for your sins, than to burn forevermore

"yep, just choke on those fumes and smell your own bbq, this is for your own good, it Would be much worse if i didnt do this, God is just, God is Good, good God Forgives All"

"now burn!"

well, excuse me, but its a wonder i dont puke.

whats the difference between you and the witchhunters?

you are a fucking minority now.


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## sso (Sep 22, 2011)

hehe, actually, there is a god.

me, you, everything.

all is god.


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## sso (Sep 22, 2011)

and nothing is.

(if god is everything, he/she/it cant be anything)

so its just a name, a word.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 22, 2011)

sso said:


> lol, i found it really funny you lumped satanists and atheists together
> 
> 
> dude, yeah, there is a god, sorta, whether its really just a mental image created by man, thats another story.
> ...


Feel better now?


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## sso (Sep 22, 2011)

oh its always good to rant a little and let off steam, if there is any


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## Snowed (Sep 22, 2011)

There's more evidence that the aliens were our perceived 'god' than the entire jesus story. 

BTW.. The first documents of jesus were written by a guy whom said this "Jesus" character came to him in a dream and that he never even walked on this earth, but on a different realm or w/e entirely...

60-90 years later the bibles were written....

I could write a story right now about a head of lettuce being my god that did this crazy shit and thousands of years later someone could pick it up and start worshiping it etc.

Not saying i don't beleive there's a god out there but a LOT of the shit we read/hear etc is bullshit IMO... The 'god' could be ANYTHING... We have NO clue haha. No one does, it's all just educated opinions.


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## HydroDawg421 (Sep 22, 2011)

Prove there is a God and I'll believe. And I'm not talking about waving around some book that has been translated in to 9,000 languages over the last 2,000 years. Concrete proof. Not 'faith.'

Mary got knocked up the same way EVERY woman has since the beginning of time. She put out like the dirty slut she was!

If the is a God then where the hell is he when Catholic priests are raping childen? 

The bottom line is the human race HAS to believe there is something more. Face the truth, when you die you rot in the ground and maggots eat your flesh. You are NOT going to some grand place in the sky!

I think religion has its place in society. I just don't agree with the whole 'you gonna burn in hell if you don't believe.'

Religion is a way to control the masses with threat of punishment or reward. If not for religion keeping society in check we would live in a very bad world. 

Now scurry on off and go pray to baby Jesus.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 22, 2011)

HydroDawg421 said:


> Prove there is a God and I'll believe. And I'm not talking about waving around some book that has been translated in to 9,000 languages over the last 2,000 years. Concrete proof. Not 'faith.'
> 
> Mary got knocked up the same way EVERY woman has since the beginning of time. She put out like the dirty slut she was!
> 
> ...


You chose not to believe so that's fine by us, do you think we give a crap?

If Mary put out because she's a dirty slut then your mom is a filthy whore.

He's obviously not with those sick fucks.

I don't believe I will go to heaven, I believe I will rot next to you.

Where does the bible say you will burn in hell for not believing? Screw the hypocrites that make false claims about the bible they have not even read.

Yeah well I guess religious people suck societies cock, but guess what you swallow it's ballsack.

Now scurry on society wants to fuck you over, slave.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 22, 2011)

^^^ jeez what got into this guy?


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 22, 2011)

MJstudent said:


> explain the univers? the big bang
> and atheism isnt believeing in nothing. its just not believeing theres a god most people believe in science.
> 
> has anyone watched a show on discovery called ancient aliens? its crazy. its all about how gods were actually just aliens that landed and our idiot ansestors thought they were gods. almost changed my perspective on things. although ive always believed in aliens.


If they thought they were gods and wrote books on how the aliens wanted us too act, then don't you think the aliens were trying to tell us what the religious books tell us? I mean by your logic our ancestors wrote what aliens told us. So shouldn't you hold the religious books up to a higher standard?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 22, 2011)

why do you all think the christian god is the right one to believe in ? lol


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## blazinkill504 (Sep 22, 2011)

one question ive always asked and i never get a straight foward answer is this. if christians have the right god and you're suppose to believe in and love that god and no other...then what is gonna happen to ppl who live in places where they dont have believe that? is like more than half of the world gonna be sent to eternal damnnation just because of the place they grew up? they grew up thinkin buddha is the right god, or allah, whatever other god you wanna choose. they're all goin to hell because thats how they were raised? and you have a slight answer these days with technology being able to put anythin anywhere on the earth information-wise, but what about before then when they had no comps, radio, phone, no kinda communication with other contents how could they have learned a different way? and since they couldnt they're all gonna go to hell?


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 22, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> one question ive always asked and i never get a straight foward answer is this. if christians have the right god and you're suppose to believe in and love that god and no other...then what is gonna happen to ppl who live in places where they dont have believe that? is like more than half of the world gonna be sent to eternal damnnation just because of the place they grew up? they grew up thinkin buddha is the right god, or allah, whatever other god you wanna choose. they're all goin to hell because thats how they were raised? and you have a slight answer these days with technology being able to put anythin anywhere on the earth information-wise, but what about before then when they had no comps, radio, phone, no kinda communication with other contents how could they have learned a different way? and since they couldnt they're all gonna go to hell?


It's funny (well I never looked into too many religions) but the two main ones don't say the others go to hell. 
Here's from the Quran (I don't feel like explaining it but you can do a little research and find out it means other religions can go to heaven: whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right - 
shall have nothing to fear or regret. 
-- Sura 5:69
The bible doesn't say that others go to hell.


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## Luger187 (Sep 22, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> It's funny (well I never looked into too many religions) but the two main ones don't say the others go to hell.
> Here's from the Quran (I don't feel like explaining it but you can do a little research and find out it means other religions can go to heaven: whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right -
> shall have nothing to fear or regret.
> -- Sura 5:69
> The bible doesn't say that others go to hell.


then why do so many people believe they do? and whats the point of believing in jesus if there is no punishment for the non believers?


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 22, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> then why do so many people believe they do? and whats the point of believing in jesus if there is no punishment for the non believers?


Because the hypocrite priests in churches tell them they will go to hell for not staying in line. 
The way to get into heaven is to "bare good fruit" and that was what Jesus taught. So if you believe in Jesus he would teach you good morals. I'm not saying others don't know good morals I'm just saying that's what Jesus taught.


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## Luger187 (Sep 22, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Because the hypocrite priests in churches tell them they will go to hell for not staying in line.
> The way to get into heaven is to "bare good fruit" and that was what Jesus taught. So if you believe in Jesus he would teach you good morals. I'm not saying others don't know good morals I'm just saying that's what Jesus taught.


so basically if you act bad, you just turn off when you die and nothing happens? but if you believe in jesus, you get a reward?
and the idea of hell has been around for many centuries


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 22, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> so basically if you act bad, you just turn off when you die and nothing happens? but if you believe in jesus, you get a reward?
> and the idea of hell has been around for many centuries


If you are a good person you will find peace, IMO. If you believe in Jesus then good but that alone will not get you into heaven. In Christianity the devil believes in Jesus but rejects god.

Well yeah I know hell has been around, I didn't say nobody goes to hell I just said that you won't go to hell for not believing in Jesus or god. I don't really wanna go into detail but the bible talks about ending existence and the lake of fire. He said the devil was sent to the lake of fire and that others just go to a grave or they are destroyed (soul obliterated, harsh).


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## Luger187 (Sep 22, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> If you are a good person you will find peace, IMO. If you believe in Jesus then good but that alone will not get you into heaven. In Christianity the devil believes in Jesus but rejects god.
> 
> Well yeah I know hell has been around, I didn't say nobody goes to hell I just said that you won't go to hell for not believing in Jesus or god. I don't really wanna go into detail but the bible talks about ending existence and the lake of fire. He said the devil was sent to the lake of fire and that others just go to a grave or they are destroyed (soul obliterated, harsh).


sweet! im not going to hell

did you check out those books yet?


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 22, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> sweet! im not going to hell
> 
> did you check out those books yet?


Well I hope you don't, 
Nah I'm trying to find my f-ing library card. I haven't read anything in a while, it's pissing me off.


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## blazinkill504 (Sep 22, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> It's funny (well I never looked into too many religions) but the two main ones don't say the others go to hell.
> Here's from the Quran (I don't feel like explaining it but you can do a little research and find out it means other religions can go to heaven: whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right -
> shall have nothing to fear or regret.
> -- Sura 5:69
> The bible doesn't say that others go to hell.


so to you whats gonna happen to a person who leads a good life, but believes buddha as god? as much as god says dont believe in anyone but me....i dunno if he's gonna be happy about ppl not thinkin he's the right god.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 23, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> so to you whats gonna happen to a person who leads a good life, but believes buddha as god? as much as god says dont believe in anyone but me....i dunno if he's gonna be happy about ppl not thinkin he's the right god.


IMO I would think god would be forgiving, he's supposed to be a very forgiving god.
But honestly I can't tell you, I mean I'm not god obviously.


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## blazinkill504 (Sep 23, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> IMO I would think god would be forgiving, he's supposed to be a very forgiving god.
> But honestly I can't tell you, I mean I'm not god obviously.


he says dont believe in false gods tho? like when your parents told you not to do somethin and you did it...you got in trouble. i dont see why god would say dont do this, but you wouldnt have to pay for doin it. thats just my logic tho i like you am not god


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 23, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> he says dont believe in false gods tho? like when your parents told you not to do somethin and you did it...you got in trouble. i dont see why god would say dont do this, but you wouldnt have to pay for doin it. thats just my logic tho i like you am not god


Well yeah the bible mentions alot about "rewards" in heaven. I don't know what they are (and I'm sure I won't find out) and your punishment is not receiving those rewards. IDK anything I'm just a simpleton like Einstein and Stephen hawkings.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

still not one single scrap of evidence for any god anywhere existing lol must be so frustrating for religious people .........hang in there and keep the errrrrr 'faith ' lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcZmfMXSBJE&feature=related


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 23, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> still not one single scrap of evidence for any god anywhere existing lol must be so frustrating for religious people .........hang in there and keep the errrrrr 'faith ' lol
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcZmfMXSBJE&feature=related


Ha frustrating for us? Pshh it's funny that you think we care if you believe or not. I mean what does your belief do for us? Ehh when we die we will see what happens.


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## nog (Sep 23, 2011)

you should not be talking to atheists


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 23, 2011)

nog said:


> you should not be talking to atheists


Hmm why not?


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## robert 14617 (Sep 23, 2011)

yea why not , how are we supposed to get along without dialog


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Ha frustrating for us? Pshh it's funny that you think we care if you believe or not. I mean what does your belief do for us? Ehh when we die we will see what happens.


no you wont , cause when the oxegeon is cut from your brain you will know nothing, sunshine .
and i dont want you to care if i believe in your god , what u should care about is your own belief in this god of yours and wether your beliefs are justified and TRUE , i could answer those questions for you but its best if you question yourself and answer yourself


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## Morgan Lynn (Sep 23, 2011)

Wrekstar said:


> - Their is a God, explain the universe
> - Life is a test, poverty and pain exists for subjecting to God
> - Satan is an arch-angel
> - Atheism should not exist, why would you choose to believe in NOTHING
> ...


 
Oh please, you've done your "bit" by posting the dumbest lump of shit I've ever read in my life. 

Telling me I'm going to burn in Hell but also "hoping" I find God is so fucking contradicting it's almost retarded. 

How can you say I'm going to be tortured for eternity but then be conserned of about me finding God?


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 23, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> no you wont , cause when the oxegeon is cut from your brain you will know nothing, sunshine .
> and i dont want you to care if i believe in your god , what u should care about is your own belief in this god of yours and wether your beliefs are justified and TRUE , i could answer those questions for you but its best if you question yourself and answer yourself


 How many times must I say I believe I will rot in the ground?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> How many times must I say I believe I will rot in the ground?


i tend not to read every post by you but just to clarify , you dont believe in what your bible says ?


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 23, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> i tend not to read every post by you but just to clarify , you dont believe in what your bible says ?


The bible says we will be sent to a grave (which was originally Sheol, translated to hell when it should have just been translated to grave) when we die (unless you go to heaven, which I'm not counting on), so I don't go against my beliefs.


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## tinyTURTLE (Sep 23, 2011)

lol at the bible and the people who read it like it's all truth.


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## PeyoteReligion (Sep 23, 2011)

Were all gonna die!


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## Wrekstar (Sep 23, 2011)

lol @ the people who don't believe in a God..


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 23, 2011)

tinyTURTLE said:


> lol at the bible and the people who read it like it's all truth.


Lol at others who scoff at people because they think they are superior to others. We are both gonna be worm food, so no matter how great you think you are at some point in the future you will literally be nothing but shit, .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> The bible says we will be sent to a grave (which was originally Sheol, translated to hell when it should have just been translated to grave) when we die (unless you go to heaven, which I'm not counting on), so I don't go against my beliefs.


so if your not going to go to hell for sinning etc and your just going to go to your grave,then why the heck are you worshiping this homophobic sadistic evil mass murdering god ? 
it really dosent make sense , 
so if i go against the ten comandments etc i will just go to my grave and rot but if im a good boy and worship your god etc i get to spend eternity in this heaven lol eternity anywhere would some become tourture , could you possibly imagine spending eternity anywhere lol no matter how good of a place it was to start with it would soon be sheer tourture
funny thing is ,real christians like the west bourough baptist church folks say totally the oppisite to you , infact every other christian ive ever met thinks hell is a real place , but i kind of like your twist on this , it amuses me .


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 23, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> so if your not going to go to hell for sinning etc and your just going to go to your grave,then why the heck are you worshiping this homophobic sadistic evil mass murdering god ?
> it really dosent make sense ,
> so if i go against the ten comandments etc i will just go to my grave and rot but if im a good boy and worship your god etc i get to spend eternity in this heaven lol eternity anywhere would some become tourture , could you possibly imagine spending eternity anywhere lol no matter how good of a place it was to start with it would soon be sheer tourture
> funny thing is ,real christians like the west bourough baptist church folks say totally the oppisite to you , infact every other christian ive ever met thinks hell is a real place , but i kind of like your twist on this , it amuses me .


I know what you mean about eternity. I can't lie (because obviously my god would know) but I would soon become tortured by heaven. But the grave is just ending existence. You're putting words in my mouth, IDK what happens when we die.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...the bible is truth to whoever reads it. each will have his own interpretation. there is no truth per-se, rather, levels of interpretation. if you don't want it to be truth, it won't be...if you want to be truth, it will be. truth changes 'hopefully' as much as your underpants.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...the bible is truth to whoever reads it. each will have his own interpretation. there is no truth per-se, rather, levels of interpretation. if you don't want it to be truth, it won't be...if you want to be truth, it will be. truth changes 'hopefully' as much as your underpants.


 what utter nonsense , the bible says what it says . its not open for interpretation atall ,if it was, i could interpretate it to mean, literally anything i wished .wich would render the bible completly useless if i can interpretate it to mean anything i like then i may aswell be reading george bush's autobiography .
i love how modern christians now say the bible is not alltogether the truth etc etc when say 500 years ago it was the the total truth and everything in it should be followed lol


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...I quote rumi - "there is psychology for every mind".

The bible is a psychological handbook.

*Love is the ark appointed for the righteous,
Which annuls the danger and provides a way of escape.
Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment.
Cleverness is mere opinion, bewilderment intuition.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...yet again I go back to another post... At one time you would have clubbed a girl over the head and dragged her to your cave. Would you still?


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...this is why I said "maybe Christ would have said that he'd wish he never became a christian". He didn't come here to start a following, he told people not to follow.


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## Morgan Lynn (Sep 23, 2011)

You know what the bible is good for?

Rolling paper.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I know what you mean about eternity. I can't lie (because obviously my god would know) but I would soon become tortured by heaven. But the grave is just ending existence. You're putting words in my mouth, IDK what happens when we die.


i think your a confused puppy , religious indoctrination as a child has led you this way .


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...just like a textbook on non-essentials is rolling paper to me.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

For the record, I'm happy that the atheists are atheists.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...yet again I go back to another post... At one time you would have clubbed a girl over the head and dragged her to your cave. Would you still?


at one time we thought thunderstorms were gods fighting , do you still ?


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...because I don't feel any different than them. I don't even feel right calling them 'them'.

It's us. Period. One mind - with different levels if description.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...in a way, the Gods are electric and the storm is a fight in that sense.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

your kinda hot morgan lynn


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...in a way, the Gods are electric and the storm is a fight in that sense.


 .........................lol yeahhhhhh man and like rain drops is like gods shower and the wind is like god farting .


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...it's about chemistry. What exactly are you laughing at?


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...yikes, just realized I'm having discourse with someone who says "you're kinda hot so-and-so" on a forum.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...yikes, just realized I'm having discourse with someone who says "you're kinda hot so-and-so" on a forum.


 lol ohhhhhh sorry i cant compliment a fellow rollit upper now lol you christian folk are so uptight . and its your rediculous veiws im laughing at .


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## karri0n (Sep 23, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> one question ive always asked and i never get a straight foward answer is this. if christians have the right god and you're suppose to believe in and love that god and no other...then what is gonna happen to ppl who live in places where they dont have believe that? is like more than half of the world gonna be sent to eternal damnnation just because of the place they grew up? they grew up thinkin buddha is the right god, or allah, whatever other god you wanna choose. they're all goin to hell because thats how they were raised? and you have a slight answer these days with technology being able to put anythin anywhere on the earth information-wise, but what about before then when they had no comps, radio, phone, no kinda communication with other contents how could they have learned a different way? and since they couldnt they're all gonna go to hell?


This question is similar to this thread that was posted in this section:

Is everyone that died before the advent of christianity burning in hell?


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## tip top toker (Sep 23, 2011)

Here's a quick point for religious types. You're following the "words" of an invisible friend. Grow the fuck up and stop being so uselessly pathetic. Even little kids learn to drop the habit, by i don't know, 8 years old?

I#d love to hear what folks Gods have done for them as other than this invisible friend false confidence and hope thing, i'd be willing to bet sweet fuck all. Oh wait, meeting your girlfriend, that was God eight, not simply life.

Another question might be what is so important that religious folk seem it a necessity to try and make us like them? Most likely the idea of powers in numbers, hard to oppose a religion if everyone follows it, and the more folk claiming they're in contact with god, the easier it is to believe their own little lie. 

I don't need your god because i'm not a weak individual


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...those 'words' are people.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Me?? Uptight?? Now that's laughable.


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## tip top toker (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...those 'words' are people.


Oh so you're following people and not the bible or other holy book. Last i looked being a sheep was not a good personality trait. carry on


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## karri0n (Sep 23, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> so basically if you act bad, you just turn off when you die and nothing happens? but if you believe in jesus, you get a reward?
> and the idea of hell has been around for many centuries


You aren't the only quote this applies to in this thread, but I find this prudent to point out:

5 things you won't believe aren't in the bible


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

It's about 'vesica piscis' and if you haven't experienced it, you're loosing out. I don't often quote the bible but "if thine eye be single"..."you'll see the kingdom of heaven"

...means that if you can integrate your two hemispheres, heaven is here. Right now. Heaven is peace of mind.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...the arguments here are pointless really, most of you go back to what it was. Do you believe in evolution? If so, move on.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

I follow no one.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...the apostles are modes of being that you will experience in the 4 quarters of your being. Your heart. They are atomic. Just try to see... 4x3


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> It's about 'vesica piscis' and if you haven't experienced it, you're loosing out. I don't often quote the bible but "if thine eye be single"..."you'll see the kingdom of heaven"
> 
> ...means that if you can integrate your two hemispheres, heaven is here. Right now. Heaven is peace of mind.


 funny that .........as i interpretate it to mean ......... IM JUST PULLING YOUR PLONKER THERE IS NO HEAVEN . and as you said the bible is open to interpretate it how ever you like .


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Great, to you there is not heaven. I've yet to 'push' a belief on you but you're still trying to tell me that what I know is wrong.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

its funny how you have come up with this stance of yours, that you think noone can question you on lol makes me chuckle hen religious people come up with beliefs they think cant be proven wrong .


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm striving towards a better understanding by accepting all that there is. You?


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...I love being wrong. Means I'm learning.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Heaven is a term, a concept that is achievable.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Would you prefer to be pissy all the time? Or do you want happiness that is not contingent on exterior circumstance.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> Great, to you there is not heaven. I've yet to 'push' a belief on you but you're still trying to tell me that what I know is wrong.


you dont know anything you cant prove anything you say is true , its all just wishfull thinking on your behalf .


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

yes I can, I am my own proof. I don't need your acceptance of that.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> Heaven is a term, a concept that is achievable.


how is the concept of heaven achievable ?


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## tip top toker (Sep 23, 2011)

I get a better understanding by questioning things, not simply accepting them  and when i questioned things, i found out they were a load of bollocks  i like the loaded question though, if it's not there i can't accept it 

Hahaha, poor poor people that need some god or other to be happy, what a sad life to lead.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

..a fool for 5 seconds...


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> yes I can, I am my own proof. I don't need your acceptance of that.


 you are your own proof ? that dosent make logical sense .


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...I just wrote that. Quiet the mind. That's heaven.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...it means that I'll believe what I want to. So, yes, I am my own proof.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

prove to me your god exists ? .......'i am my own proof ' .............lol


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Exactly, I need God to be happy. I need ME to be happy. The real, actual, depths of me.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

i believe in the three headed green monster that lives under my stairs ...............i am my own proof , so nerr neer


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...I don't have to, he exists within, so I am my own proof.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

give it up man, I'm happy for you and your green monster. Don't you get it?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

i dont like to be insulting but you really are a stupid guy , you are chatting absolute nonsense .


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...stupid like an M.A. ?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> give it up man, I'm happy for you and your green monster. Don't you get it?


 i kind of get what your trying to say ............its upto to you to believe in whatever you like .........BUT dont you care if your beliefs are real and true ?


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Beliefs are real and true to whomever is believing them! I don't take what you say as insulting.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

If a person is real their beliefs should be constantly changing.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...flowing and reflective like mercury.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> Beliefs are real and true to whomever is believing them! I don't take what you say as insulting.


 no thats not true , everything else in life can be proven to be false or real , yet when it comes to religion you think it boils down to wether you personally believe it to be true .


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## karri0n (Sep 23, 2011)

Stop with the double, triple, quadruple posting. The last three pages of this thread could have been two posts.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...sorry, new here. I'll better that.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

why cant you use the same logic and reasoning as you use in every other aspect of life, with religion ?


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...what is your definition of religion? No pasting, your definition from within.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

religion is the following and worship of a certain god but i prefere the word cult


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...who, in my opinion, is the certain God of all people. Religion is the uniting of the two hemispheres. This creates faith, not following. Faith, the pineal gland is where it originates. Can you see the picture?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

faith is useless


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...to me it moves mountains. That is reconciling death. Death is the mountain. After death is moved aside, you live...to it's fullest expression.


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## karri0n (Sep 23, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> religion is the following and worship of a certain god but i prefere the word cult


BUZZZZ. WRONG. The belief in a god or deity is not a prerequisite for a religion.





eye exaggerate said:


> ...who, in my opinion, is the certain God of all people. Religion is the uniting of the two hemispheres. This creates faith, not following. Faith, the pineal gland is where it originates. Can you see the picture?


That's not "religion". That very well may be the *goal* of *your* religion. Religion is simply a philosophy or set of rules, morals, and goals by which someone lives their life.

"Faith" is a trust in the usefulness or truth of something, in this case, religion. It does not originate in the pineal gland. The pineal gland is responsible for things such as dreams, "psychic" phenomena, visions, and much of spirituality, but not faith.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...I should get to work. Being self-employed is not as fun as one might think.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

karri0n, that is true. But, it's not the goal of 'my' religion' - it's the common goal of all religions.


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## hazorazo (Sep 23, 2011)

Wrekstar said:


> - Their is a God, explain the universe
> - Life is a test, poverty and pain exists for subjecting to God
> - Satan is an arch-angel
> - Atheism should not exist, why would you choose to believe in NOTHING
> ...


Some points for you.....

You are using the possessive form of "their" when you should be using "there". There will be hell to pay if they do not confess their sins.....just an example of using both within a sentence.

God may be out there, but pointing at the universe does not prove anything.
Churches like you to believe that life is a test, so they can convince you that you should keep going to church and paying their bills.
Satan is just a character in a book, representing the evil man can do.....then you do not have to take personal responsibility.....the devil made you do it......or it was God's will.
Atheism is a belief. Just like your blind belief that something is out there.....they believe nothing is out there....which there is more proof of nothing being there than something.
Religious jokes are fun.....do you really think your "all knowing god" does not have a sense of humor?
I hope you find atheism....and then find facts and logic hiding there with atheism.
I believe that people that say "I believe there is a God, be a good human being and you will go to heaven" are ultimately self serving.....are they not? They are only being goo people so they can get where they want to go....heaven......How about being a good person because it is the right thing to do......and I do not believe it will get me a golden ticket....I just do it because I like being a good person....how about that?
Blasphemy is not a sin. You read this in a fictional book, called the Bible.

I respect your right to your religion, but try not to tell other people they are burning in hell......it does not go over too well with people that subscribe to logic and reason.


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## karri0n (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> karri0n, that is true. But, it's not the goal of 'my' religion' - it's the common goal of all religions.


Not sure if I agree with that. That's one of the *results* of *spirituality*, but most of the mainstream modern religions have very little spirituality in them, if any at all. The goal of "most" religions, meaning the modern mainstream ones, seem to be control and power over their followers.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

... i think religion morphed into a set of rules, etc... but I feel also that the rules, if followed at least loosely, will bring that peace. Religion existed before religion as oneness, the split is where we now live. I mean to heal that split within myself and find peace.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

"burning in hell" is unrestrained DESIRE. Need!


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

karri0n said:


> BUZZZZ. WRONG. The belief in a god or deity is not a prerequisite for a religion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


BUZZZZ BUZZZZZZ back at you WRONG he said what is my own interpretation of what is religion , i could of quite easily quoted from wiki pedia .


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## karri0n (Sep 23, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> BUZZZZ BUZZZZZZ back at you WRONG he said what is my own interpretation of what is religion , i could of quite easily quoted from wiki pedia .


 You're right. He did say your personal interpretation. I'll give you that.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Peter, the seat of the soul, is the pineal. It's the 'rock' referred to in the bible.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> Peter, the seat of the soul, is the pineal. It's the 'rock' referred to in the bible.


 i thought we allready established the bible was pish ?


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

if the bible recognized the pineal then it must have some actuality. It is describing actual things. Please be willing to accept things. You don't have to believe in it, just accept its existence and how FOR SOME it is a textbook to physical and non-physical things or concepts. It's another way to learn about life. So in that sense you could even call it 'just a good read'.

You know that saying, the mind is like a parachute, works best when open.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...I would not say to you while reading a book that YOU like, "hey man, put that sht down, it's pointless." How would you look at me? Would it be one or two middle fingers you'd be waving?


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## Padawanbater2 (Sep 23, 2011)

Couldn't the same be said for any religious text?


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## Padawanbater2 (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I would not say to you while reading a book that YOU like, "hey man, put that sht down, it's pointless." How would you look at me? Would it be one or two middle fingers you'd be waving?


So simply because I _believe_ something, that's enough to remove it from criticism? 

What if the book I was reading was titled "How to murder babies and get away with it!"? Do you think you would have a different opinion then?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> if the bible recognized the pineal then it must have some actuality. It is describing actual things. Please be willing to accept things. You don't have to believe in it, just accept its existence and how FOR SOME it is a textbook to physical and non-physical things or concepts. It's another way to learn about life. So in that sense you could even call it 'just a good read'.
> 
> You know that saying, the mind is like a parachute, works best when open.


how is a 6 to 10 thousand year old book full of ,sadistic nonsense a good way to learn about life ? and im sure 99% of christians would be appalled at your 'just a good read ' quote lol


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...don't you think that's obvious?

I'm not looking to remove anything from criticism. If I end up an atheist one day I'd be just as happy. Night / day - white / black... eternal change and rotation.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...good for them, after the initial shock they might learn something.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> if the bible recognized the pineal then it must have some actuality. It is describing actual things. Please be willing to accept things. You don't have to believe in it, just accept its existence and how FOR SOME it is a textbook to physical and non-physical things or concepts. It's another way to learn about life. So in that sense you could even call it 'just a good read'.
> 
> You know that saying, the mind is like a parachute, works best when open.


dude its you you who needs to open your mind you have been brain washed , i opend my mind , looked at religion in depth and come to the conclusion i have right now .you on the other hand have been indoctrinated with religion and close your mind to the truth and evidence .


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

How could that possibly be when I can prove the desk here in front of me. I accept science and also have faith. Is there something wrong with not being 100% scientist? And, can you tell me why?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

well youve changed your tune from when you enterd this thread take a look back at your first posts .


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

...I don't think so, it takes a while to get this out properly and sht moves fast here. I think we're all doing our best.


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## Morgan Lynn (Sep 23, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> your kinda hot morgan lynn


why thank you ver much


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## Luger187 (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate, PLEASE start quoting people when you reply to them. it looks like youre just making a bunch of one-liners


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## jason1976 (Sep 23, 2011)

ok here nor there. i am nothing. to be athiest i must believe there is no god, which signifies a recognition of god. i live life with no one watching over my shoulder saying wrong or right. i know whats good or bad. dont need a book to tell me. also, the bible, read it good. i know it from cover to cover. the devil, "satin",killed no one. god, the saviour however,killed a freakin shit ton of people. argue? sodom and gammora, more? the flood of noah ark. bahhh humbug.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

jason1976 said:


> "satin",killed no one. god, the saviour however,killed a freakin shit ton of people. argue? sodom and gammora, more? the flood of noah ark.


The flood is christ consciousness as far as I know. Not a lot of the events in the bible happened on the earth, it happened IN the earth. God / You should kill your enemies...they, those enemies, are thoughts that take you away from who you really are. Whoever that may be.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

jason, 'legion' are psychological aggregates. "killing' in the bible is overcoming a personal obstacle.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

LOL at translating all the wrong in the bible into something magical and good lol


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

lol at there being no evidence of noahs flood,


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> jason, 'legion' are psychological aggregates. "killing' in the bible is overcoming a personal obstacle.



i interpratate it to mean something else sorry


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

at the eye exaggerate why was the bible wrote in riddels, that only you, it seems can work out ? i thought it was a book for everyone yet only you seem to be able to translate the nonsense lmao


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## cannabineer (Sep 23, 2011)

jason1976 said:


> <snip> the devil, "satin",killed no one.


You have strong opinions about couture. I too prefer fabrics with a more demure, earthy sensibility. cn


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> lol at there being no evidence of noahs flood,



Precisely. The flood is still happening today. It happens inside. It's not the modern 'believer's' fault that humanity was 'dull' compared to where we are now.

Are you familiar with arc welding? It's the same thing. The hemispheres unite through an 'arc' and are melded. Unity, or Christ consciousness. Lookup the etymology of the word human. hu = god, man = man. god/man. Do you feel there is an animating principle to the universe?


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> You have strong opinions about couture. I too prefer fabrics with a more demure, earthy sensibility. cn


too funny.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> at the eye exaggerate why was the bible wrote in riddels, that only you, it seems can work out ? lmao


I am trying to work out my own existence in my own way. Is that somehow a problem for you?


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## tip top toker (Sep 23, 2011)

Oh, and another seemingly loaded question.



> why would you choose to believe in NOTHING


I don't chose to believe in nothing. Rather there is nothing to believe in with regard to Gods. If i were to believe in nothing then it would mean that there was an alternative to be chosen, to answer the question would be to tacitly accept that there is something else other than nothing out there.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

tip top toker said:


> Oh, and another seemingly loaded question.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't chose to believe in nothing. Rather there is nothing to believe in with regard to Gods. If i were to believe in nothing then it would mean that there was an alternative to be chosen, to answer the question would be to tacitly accept that there is something else other than nothing out there.



...can anyone agree that 'father' and 'mother' have universal meaning? Every single person on earth was created by them, this means we share a common bond. The rest is conjecture.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...can anyone agree that 'father' and 'mother' have universal meaning? Every single person on earth was created by them, this means we share a common bond. The rest is conjecture.



...earth = mother, spirit = father. You are an earth that is animated by energy, correct?


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## tip top toker (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...can anyone agree that 'father' and 'mother' have universal meaning? Every single person on earth was created by them, this means we share a common bond. The rest is conjecture.


I might be stoned and drunk but i don't see the relevance. Your question is loaded.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

tip top toker said:


> I might be stoned and drunk but i don't see the relevance. Your question is loaded.


I wouldn't do that. Pretty high over here too. Going to drive to the fridge to grab a beer right away...


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## mindphuk (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> Lookup the etymology of the word human. hu = god, man = man. god/man. Do you feel there is an animating principle to the universe?


 Now we all know you are just making shit up.

The English adjective _human_ is a Middle English loanword from Old French _humain_, ultimately from Latin _h&#363;m&#257;nus_, the adjective form of _hom&#333;_ "man". The word's use as a noun (with a plural: _humans_) dates to the 16th century.[13] The native English term _man_ is now often reserved for male adults, but the term "mankind" is occasionally used to refer to the species generally in Modern English. This use is considered by some to be obsolete.[14] The word is from Proto-Germanic _*mannaz_, from a Proto-Indo-European (PIE) root _*man-_, a cognate to Sanskrit _manu-_.
The generic name _Homo_ is a learned 18th century derivation from Latin _hom&#333;_ "man", ultimately "earthly being" (Old Latin _hem&#333;_, a cognate to Old English _guma_ "man", from PIE _*d&#688;&#501;&#688;emon-_, meaning 'earth' or 'ground').[15]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> Now we all know you are just making shit up.
> 
> The English adjective _human_ is a Middle English loanword from Old French _humain_, ultimately from Latin _h&#363;m&#257;nus_, the adjective form of _hom&#333;_ "man". The word's use as a noun (with a plural: _humans_) dates to the 16th century.[13] The native English term _man_ is now often reserved for male adults, but the term "mankind" is occasionally used to refer to the species generally in Modern English. This use is considered by some to be obsolete.[14] The word is from Proto-Germanic _*mannaz_, from a Proto-Indo-European (PIE) root _*man-_, a cognate to Sanskrit _manu-_.
> The generic name _Homo_ is a learned 18th century derivation from Latin _hom&#333;_ "man", ultimately "earthly being" (Old Latin _hem&#333;_, a cognate to Old English _guma_ "man", from PIE _*d&#688;&#501;&#688;emon-_, meaning 'earth' or 'ground').[15]
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human


I wouldn't do that either.

Sorry, HUE, the sun's rays. Should have specified.


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## Beefbisquit (Sep 23, 2011)

Unless all you Christians start giving away all of your belongings and wealth, none of you are going to "heaven".

I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:23-24



And atheists don't choose to not believe, they are unconvinced by the arguments put forth by religion. It's not our fault the stories suck at convincing us....


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

eye chats lots of poo poo


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## Beefbisquit (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> I wouldn't do that either.
> 
> Sorry, HUE, the sun's rays. Should have specified.


citation? never heard of this in context with human....


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Unless all you Christians start giving away all of your belongings and wealth, none of you are going to "heaven".
> 
> &#8220;I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.&#8221; Matthew 19:23-24
> 
> ...


Hi beef, I agree with this too. Can I add that this is a literal interpretation you are providing? What is spiritual currency?


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> eye chats lots of poo poo


...and you're starting to look a lot like toilet paper.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> citation? never heard of this in context with human....


Chakras - 7 rays - 7 notes etc.

The intellect cannot comprehend this. It is a different intelligence.


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## Beefbisquit (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> Hi beef, I agree with this too. Can I add that this is a literal interpretation you are providing? What is spiritual currency?


Why are you so sure it's metaphorical? And if this portion is a metaphor, how much of the bible is truth and how much are stories and metaphors?

A thousand different scholars have a thousand different interpretations of the same passages - I wonder why god sucked so bad at communication, lol...


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Why are you so sure it's metaphorical? And if this portion is a metaphor, how much of the bible is truth and how much are stories and metaphors?
> 
> A thousand different scholars have a thousand different interpretations of the same passages - I wonder why god sucked so bad at communication, lol...



...man sucks with interpretation.


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## Beefbisquit (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> Chakras - 7 rays - 7 notes etc.
> 
> The intellect cannot comprehend this. It is a different intelligence.


See, no offence - that sounds poetic and all, but it's just flowery language that doesn't do anything to explain, or reveal anything about the structure and consistency of the world.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Why are you so sure it's metaphorical? And if this portion is a metaphor, how much of the bible is truth and how much are stories and metaphors?
> 
> A thousand different scholars have a thousand different interpretations of the same passages - I wonder why god sucked so bad at communication, lol...



I am sure that it is metaphorical because I cannot imagine man surviving on locusts in the desert. f.e.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> See, no offence - that sounds poetic and all, but it's just flowery language that doesn't do anything to explain, or reveal anything about the structure and consistency of the world.


How many races are there?


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## Beefbisquit (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...man sucks with interpretation.


Apparently God fashioned us in his image, so what does that say about him?


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Apparently God fashioned us in his image, so what does that say about him?



What is an image? Is an image subject to gradients?


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Apparently God fashioned us in his image, so what does that say about him?


I posted before that the God image is continually changing.


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## Beefbisquit (Sep 23, 2011)

1 human race.


The whole idea of Jesus is immoral - someone else can absolve you of your sins, VICARIOUSLY... it's absurdly immoral.

People shouldn't get to feel relief after doing horrible things because they telepathically ask for forgiveness, the whole concept just seems.... really sinister and shallow.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

all i see in this thread is desperate so called christians clinging onto every last thing possible that might give them that one hope that one bit of a glimmer that may not be proved wrong lol if your god is so great then prove it , all i see is people clinging onto hope and faith lol


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> See, no offence - that sounds poetic and all, but it's just flowery language that doesn't do anything to explain, or reveal anything about the structure and consistency of the world.




The fine structure constant is approximately 1/137 - the vesica piscis is that 'dimensionless number'. In terms of structure of the world, can you agree that sacred geometry is an integral part?


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> 1 human race.
> 
> 
> The whole idea of Jesus is immoral - someone else can absolve you of your sins, VICARIOUSLY... it's absurdly immoral.
> ...




...those are seriously misguided people man.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> all i see in this thread is desperate so called christians clinging onto every last thing possible that might give them that one hope that one bit of a glimmer that may not be proved wrong lol if your god is so great then prove it , all i see is people clinging onto hope and faith lol




What makes me desperate in your opinion.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> all i see in this thread is desperate so called christians clinging onto every last thing possible that might give them that one hope that one bit of a glimmer that may not be proved wrong lol if your god is so great then prove it , all i see is people clinging onto hope and faith lol


I'm asking what you ask of christians, give me proof that I am desperate.


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## Beefbisquit (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> The fine structure constant is approximately 1/137 - the vesica piscis is that 'dimensionless number'. In terms of structure of the world, can you agree that sacred geometry is an integral part?


I know what each of those words mean separately, but in the sentence above, that makes no sense. And no, I don't think there is "sacred geometry"...


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> I know what each of those words mean separately, but in the sentence above, that makes no sense. And no, I don't think there is "sacred geometry"...



So DaVinci was wrong? Inside the Vesica is where you'll find it. Good luck on your travels.

Now, to reserve some energy for practical living.


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## Beefbisquit (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> So DaVinci was wrong? Inside the Vesica is where you'll find it. Good luck on your travels.
> 
> Now, to reserve some energy for practical living.


LOL... wow, that's a stretch....

Venn Diagrams are sacred... heh.....


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> LOL... wow, that's a stetch....
> 
> Venn Diagrams are sacred... heh.....



...last one. Yes, even YOU are divine. You just need to remember. Know that I am not trying to sell you a book. I am not 'eye-pra'.

 enjoy the day man.


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## jason1976 (Sep 23, 2011)

they didnt build an ark for christs consciouness. it rained for 40 days and 40 nights. plain as day. then was promised by the rainbow it would never happen again. and im not aware that killing had any other definition in the bible. turned to a pillar of salt seems pretty dead to me. just sayin...to each his own but i cant live governed by a myth.


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## Beefbisquit (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> I am sure that it is metaphorical because I cannot imagine man surviving on locusts in the desert. f.e.


Then why are you so sure that Jesus even existed? He could just be one big metaphor.... I mean, it's fact that the gospels were written (at minimum) decades after Jesus' death... and the average life span was... oh..... 30-35 tops? 

Have you ever played the telephone game? You know, the one you used to play when you were kids sitting in a line and one person says a sentence to the next person in line, and they have to repeat it to the next person, and you see what the sentence has turned into when the last person tells everyone what they heard? That's how I see the bible.

Let's talk about the fact that it was written in a time when people thought disease was gods wrath, and slavery was A O.K. How much stock can you really put into these accounts? How much stock do you put into the religious claims of any other religious book? Hmmmm....


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## robert 14617 (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> Hi beef, I agree with this too. Can I add that this is a literal interpretation you are providing? What is spiritual currency?


i would call the christian looking at my skepticism as poverty and his high and mighty stance as him having bank for the afterlife (the rich man)



Beefbisquit said:


> Unless all you Christians start giving away all of your belongings and wealth, none of you are going to "heaven".
> 
> I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:23-24
> 
> i


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 23, 2011)

jason1976 said:


> they didnt build an ark for christs consciouness. it rained for 40 days and 40 nights. plain as day. then was promised by the rainbow it would never happen again. and im not aware that killing had any other definition in the bible. turned to a pillar of salt seems pretty dead to me. just sayin...to each his own but i cant live governed by a myth.


. if it rained for that long where the fuck did all the water go ? lol


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

robert 14617 said:


> i would call the christian looking at my skepticism as poverty and his high and mighty stance as him having bank for the afterlife (the rich man)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Then why are you so sure that Jesus even existed? He could just be one big metaphor.... I mean, it's fact that the gospels were written (at minimum) decades after Jesus' death... and the average life span was... oh..... 30-35 tops?
> 
> Have you ever played the telephone game? You know, the one you used to play when you were kids sitting in a line and one person says a sentence to the next person in line, and they have to repeat it to the next person, and you see what the sentence has turned into when the last person tells everyone what they heard? That's how I see the bible.
> 
> Let's talk about the fact that it was written in a time when people thought disease was gods wrath, and slavery was A O.K. How much stock can you really put into these accounts? How much stock do you put into the religious claims of any other religious book? Hmmmm....



I put tons of stock into all religious books. How couldn't I to try and grasp what everyone else says on the matter to gain a better perspective.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

robert 14617 said:


> i would call the christian looking at my skepticism as poverty and his high and mighty stance as him having bank for the afterlife (the rich man)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Heisenberg (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> I put tons of stock into all religious books. How couldn't I to try and grasp what everyone else says on the matter to gain a better perspective.


An alternate approach is doubt; put no stock into any book. Doubt is the proper companion to curiosity, and yields a perspective that is relative rather than ambiguous.


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## Heisenberg (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> I am as poor as everyone else, otherwise I would not critique my own thinking. I am as skeptical as anyone else also. I only know what works for me.


Skepticism is not simply a state of mind, but also a skill. 

"Thinking is skilled work. It is not true that we are naturally endowed with the ability to think clearly and logically&#8212;without learning how, or without practicing&#8230; People with untrained minds should no more expect to think clearly and logically than people who have never learned and never practiced can expect to find themselves good carpenters, golfers, bridge-players, or pianists." --Alfred Mander


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## Beefbisquit (Sep 23, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> Side note: I've always felt that your avatar was the best picture ever taking in the history of the world...


My avatar? lol

Gotta love Michael Bolton....


[video=youtube;GI6CfKcMhjY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI6CfKcMhjY[/video]


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 23, 2011)

Morgan Lynn said:


> You know what the bible is good for?
> 
> Rolling paper.


 Well yeah same for books and newspaper. If you're atheist or even some religions no matter what you do or learn your brain shall be consumed by little worms.


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## cannabineer (Sep 23, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Well yeah same for books and newspaper. If you're atheist or even some religions no matter what you do or learn your brain shall be consumed by little worms.


I just wish the little bastards would have had the decency to wait until I'm dead. cn


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Well yeah same for books and newspaper. If you're atheist or even some religions no matter what you do or learn your brain shall be consumed by little worms.




...or with the little worms of fire as per your signature


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 23, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> An alternate approach is doubt; put no stock into any book. Doubt is the proper companion to curiosity, and yields a perspective that is relative rather than ambiguous.



Stock = energy from here. I feel the need to read and understand these matters. I have almost stopped looking at titles to reduce the possibility of a 'tinting'.

...today while driving home i contemplated your avatar. I had an intuitive response to it and thought "suns melt glaciers" - referring to a quote I read on it. In the split second it takes to think that, a car passes with a plate that read 'meltman'.

I feel this is an example of axis mundi. Could I have your take on that for perspective?


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## Wrekstar (Sep 24, 2011)

WOOOOOOO my threads famous.


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## Hepheastus420 (Sep 24, 2011)

Wrekstar said:


> WOOOOOOO my threads famous.


I hate to tell you this dude, but your thread isn't famous it's infamous, .
But I guess any attention is good attention, .


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## Wrekstar (Sep 24, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I hate to tell you this dude, but your thread isn't famous it's infamous, .
> But I guess any attention is good attention, .


Doesn't matter


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## Meraxes (Sep 24, 2011)

for example atheists believe that believing in satan is even dumber than believing in god. so yeah, infamous, you know like Hitler, or jeffery dahmer


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## Luger187 (Sep 24, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> Stock = energy from here. I feel the need to read and understand these matters. I have almost stopped looking at titles to reduce the possibility of a 'tinting'.
> 
> ...today while driving home i contemplated your avatar. I had an intuitive response to it and thought "suns melt glaciers" - referring to a quote I read on it. In the split second it takes to think that, a car passes with a plate that read 'meltman'.
> 
> I feel this is an example of axis mundi. Could I have your take on that for perspective?


so you think it was some divine power that made the guy with that license plate drive by as you were thinking that?



> *Why people believe that invisible agents control the world*
> Souls, spirits, ghosts, gods, demons, angels, aliens, intelligent designers, government conspirators, and all manner of invisible agents with power and intention are believed to haunt our world and control our lives. Why?
> 
> The answer has two parts, starting with the concept of &#8220;patternicity,&#8221; which I defined in my December 2008 column as the human tendency to find meaningful patterns in meaningless noise. Consider the face on Mars, the Virgin Mary on a grilled-cheese sandwich, satanic messages in rock music. Of course, some patterns are real. Finding predictive patterns in changing weather, fruiting trees, migrating prey animals and hungry predators was central to the survival of Paleolithic hominids.
> ...


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 24, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> so you think it was some divine power that made the guy with that license plate drive by as you were thinking that?




No, I feel this is a conjunction of thought and matter.


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## Heisenberg (Sep 24, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> No, I feel this is a conjunction of thought and matter.


I'm going with hyperactive pattern recognition coupled with misunderstanding of odds when dealing with large numbers, and appealing to the fact that 'coincidence happened, therefore thought influences matter' is in essence a meaningless proposition, or at the very least is missing a logical operator.


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## Luger187 (Sep 24, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> No, I feel this is a conjunction of thought and matter.


so... your thoughts forced that license plate to change? how exactly does the conjunction of thought and matter work?


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## cannabineer (Sep 24, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I'm going with hyperactive pattern recognition coupled with misunderstanding of odds when dealing with large numbers, and appealing to the fact that 'coincidence happened, therefore thought influences matter' is in essence a meaningless proposition, or at the very least is missing a logical operator.


Never underestimate the "casino principle". I don't know if this is a formalized psychological phenomenon, but the fact that it is recognized by a certain sort of designer impressed me the first (and only) time I passed through Vegas. I noticed how much noise and commotion winning slot machines made, and this prompted me to make the effort to determine how large the apparently winning subpopulation was. It required a sustained effort! This made me aware of the grim phalanx of losers silently, almost invisibly feeding coin after coin after coin into the oiled clockwork of the casino's "production floor". 
Casinos use a cognitive analog of a sort of optical illusion. The lines really are straight andor parallel despite some clever geometric misdirection. The misdirection in casino design, both in the playing facilities themselves (wheels, tables, monobrachial revenue concentrators) and the cartoonish opulence of the room itself, make it feel like wall-to-wall winners. The sensation of being in such a lucky place can override reason in quite the same way a stout dose of heroin coddles our limbic reward system. That is intentional. 
The casino principle gave me insight into why things like astrology have traction. Our brains are still those of a plains predator not at the top of the local food chain. Our minds involuntarily latch onto commotion (pig? leopard? an evening's company?) and filter out the harmless/wealthless static background. In a casino this means it takes conscious effort to see the losers, the cash cows held in thrall by the limbic certainty that the next pull will be the big one. In a "discipline" like astrology, which is based on concealing randomness behind arcane labyrinthine interrelationships of many mutable variables, the human psyche tends to automatically amplify both the frequency and effect of the "hits" simple chance dictates must happen. 
We have inherited a brain structure that is predisposed toward apophenia (Heis' hyperactive pattern recognition) and animism ("agenticity" is just that). It takes will, effort and discipline to choose rationality over an instinct toward magical thinking.
cn


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 24, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I'm going with hyperactive pattern recognition coupled with misunderstanding of odds when dealing with large numbers, and appealing to the fact that 'coincidence happened, therefore thought influences matter' is in essence a meaningless proposition, or at the very least is missing a logical operator.



from wiki

A pattern, from the French patron, is a type of theme of recurring events or objects, sometimes referred to as elements of a set of objects.
These elements repeat in a predictable manner. It can be a template or model which can be used to generate things or parts of a thing, especially if the things that are created have enough in common for the underlying pattern to be inferred, in which case the things are said to exhibit the unique pattern.
The most basic patterns, called Tessellations, are based on repetition and periodicity. A single template, tile, or cell, is combined with duplicates without change or modification. For example, simple harmonic oscillators produce repeated patterns of movement.
Other patterns, such as Penrose tiling and Pongal or Kolam patterns from India, use symmetry which is a form of finite repetition, instead of translation which can repeat to infinity. Fractal patterns also use magnification or scaling giving an effect known as self-similarity or scale invariance. Some plants, like Ferns, even generate a pattern using an affine transformation which combines translation, scaling, rotation and reflection.
Pattern matching is the act of checking for the presence of the constituents of a pattern, whereas the detecting for underlying patterns is referred to as pattern recognition. The question of how a pattern emerges is accomplished through the work of the scientific field of pattern formation.
Pattern recognition is more complex when templates are used to generate variants. For example, in English, sentences often follow the "N-VP" (noun - verb phrase) pattern, but some knowledge of the English language is required to detect the pattern. Computer science, ethology, and psychology are fields which study patterns.
"A pattern has an integrity independent of the medium by virtue of which you have received the information that it exists. Each of the chemical elements is a pattern integrity. Each individual is a pattern integrity. The pattern integrity of the human individual is evolutionary and not static."
R. Buckminster Fuller (1895-1983), U.S.American philosopher and inventor, in Synergetics: Explorations in the Geometry of Thinking (1975), Pattern Integrity 505.201


Observable paterns
Any of the five senses may directly observe patterns.

Visual
Visual patterns are very common such as simple decorative patherns (stripes, zigzags, and polka dots). Others can be more complicated, however, they may be found anywhere in nature and in art.
Penrose tilings

Art
One recurring pattern in a single piece of art may constitute a motif.
The golden ratio (approximately 1.618 is found frequently in nature. It is defined by two numbers, that form a ratio such that (a+b)/a = a/b (a/b being the golden ratio). This pattern was exploited by Leonardo da Vinci in his art. The golden ratio can be seen in nature, from the spirals of flowers to the symmetry of the human body (as expressed in Da Vinci's Vitruvian Man, one of the most referenced and reproduced works of art today. This is still used by many artists).
"Art is the imposing of a pattern on experience, and our aesthetic enjoyment is recognition of the pattern."
Alfred North Whitehead (1861-1947), English philosopher and mathematician. Dialogues, June 10, 1943.
Patterns of abstraction may not be directly observable - such as patterns in science, drama, maths, english

Mathematics
Mathematics is commonly described as the "Science of Pattern." Any sequence of numbers that may be modeled by a mathematical function is considered a pattern.
In Pattern theory, mathematicians attempt to describe the world in terms of patterns. The goal is to lay out the world in a more computationally friendly manner.
Patterns are common in many areas of mathematics. Recurring decimals are one example. These are repeating sequences of digits which repeat infinitely. For example, 1 divided by 81 will result in the answer 0.012345679... the numbers 0-9 (except 8 will repeat forever &#8212; 1/81 is a recurring decimal.
Fractals are mathematical patterns that are scale invariant. This means that the shape of the pattern does not depend on how closely you look at it. Self-similarity is found in fractals. Examples of natural fractals are coast lines and tree shapes, which repeat their shape regardless of what magnification you view at. While the outer appearance of self-similar patterns can be quite complex, the rules needed to describe or produce their formation can be extremely simple (e.g. Lindenmayer systems for the description of tree shapes).

Yes, hyperactive pattern recognition. Agreed.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 24, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> so... your thoughts forced that license plate to change? how exactly does the conjunction of thought and matter work?



no. the two happening together formed a 'meaningful coincidence'. Pattern recognition is a tool for a believer as much as it is for a skeptic (classic definition)

I add the meaning... are you aware that this is how new scientific ideas are created?


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## Heisenberg (Sep 24, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> no. the two happen together formed a 'meaningful coincidence'. Pattern recognition is a tool for a believer as much as it is for a skeptic (classic definition)
> 
> I add the meaning... are you aware that this is how new scientific ideas are created?


Yes exactly, observation. The problem we pointed out is that you went from observation to conclusion without any support. It seems now that you simply meant it as a hypothesis, which is totally valid. The next step is attempting to falsify your hypothesis, so how do you suppose you would test something like that? Well, if an explanation exists which equally explains all evidence and offers fewer assumptions, then that would be a start.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 24, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Yes exactly, observation. The problem we pointed out is that you went from observation to conclusion without any support. It seems now that you simply meant it as a hypothesis, which is totally valid. The next step is attempting to falsify your hypothesis, so how do you suppose you would test something like that? Well, if an explanation exists which equally explains all evidence and offers fewer assumptions, then that would be a start.



...totally fair. I'll continue on with a less 'impressions based' response.


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## eye exaggerate (Sep 24, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Yes exactly, observation. The problem we pointed out is that you went from observation to conclusion without any support. It seems now that you simply meant it as a hypothesis, which is totally valid. The next step is attempting to falsify your hypothesis, so how do you suppose you would test something like that? Well, if an explanation exists which equally explains all evidence and offers fewer assumptions, then that would be a start.



I'd like to add that 'dark energy' is still looking for support. I do not feel the responses by anyone here in the forum are any different. Some things are provable, but we are all trying to prove a lot of left over 'junk'.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Sep 25, 2011)

still no evidence of a god existing <sigh>


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## XxHazexX (Sep 27, 2011)

-First off reigious belief is purely ignorant.
-That euphoric sensation you get after squander away an hour or so of ur life every sunday is only a simultion of the reward center of the brain saying you been a good obedient boy or girl.
-secondly anything you cant comprehend is and will explained with scince.And thoose near death expercences
-Athiesm is a wonderful thing, if it wasent for atheist and agnostics ALL of the magnificent strides the scientific comunity has we'ed still be ignorant and under the popes rule.
-There is no god."If a man smite thee on one cheek, smash him on the other."-LaVey Anton
"I am the true imbodiment of man no GOD no LIMITTAIONS just life."-Marcus Gomran
-What did the Jew say to the christian who walked in with the muslim & catholics.......lol


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## Wrekstar (Sep 27, 2011)

XxHazexX said:


> -First off reigious belief is purely ignorant.
> -That euphoric sensation you get after squander away an hour or so of ur life every sunday is only a simultion of the reward center of the brain saying you been a good obedient boy or girl.
> -secondly anything you cant comprehend is and will explained with scince.And thoose near death expercences
> -Athiesm is a wonderful thing, if it wasent for atheist and agnostics ALL of the magnificent strides the scientific comunity has we'ed still be ignorant and under the popes rule.
> ...


- How is it ignorant, having no belief in a good higher being should be classed as ignroant
- Reward center? some people do it for other reasons.. 
- Science? ' energy cannot be created, nor destroyed ' explain the big bang.
- Fuck atheism..


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## Padawanbater2 (Sep 27, 2011)

How is it ignorant, having no belief in a good higher being should be classed as ignroant

It's inconsistent with reality. Atheism is the default position to hold. It takes a giant leap of faith and expulsion of reality to believe in God.

- Reward center? some people do it for other reasons.. 

Makes no difference to me _why _someone might believe it, it's still just as dangerous

- Science? ' energy cannot be created, nor destroyed ' explain the big bang.

"Science can't explain it so God dun it!". What created God? SUPER DUPER GOD!?

- Fuck atheism..

"Fuck a non position of a non belief I don't hold and don't understand! hmpf!"







Feel better?


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## XxHazexX (Sep 27, 2011)

more fun yeeeah 
for those who do not know what the real meaning of ignoracne the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, ect. 
one word singularity.
athism is a clear way to live and enjoy life and every thing in it with out feeling guilty about it I can covet my neighbors wife,endulg glutinously,view engraven images,and Murder my fellow man(my own personal up side),fornicate until my balls fall off and i can put myself before ALL without a stich of guilt and sleep like a infant on a tit


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## Padawanbater2 (Sep 27, 2011)

So can believers, they just have to ask for forgiveness.


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## robert 14617 (Sep 27, 2011)

XxHazexX said:


> more fun yeeeah
> for those who do not know what the real meaning of ignoracne the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, ect.
> one word singularity.
> athism is a clear way to live and enjoy life and every thing in it with out feeling guilty about it I can covet my neighbors wife,endulg glutinously,view engraven images,and Murder my fellow man(my own personal up side),fornicate until my balls fall off and i can put myself before ALL without a stich of guilt and sleep like a infant on a tit


 just because i have some reservations about religion i am still a good person with morals


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## karri0n (Sep 28, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What created God? SUPER DUPER GOD!?


Didn't they recently prove that it was Stewie Griffin?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Bang_Theory_(Family_Guy)


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## blazinkill504 (Sep 28, 2011)

XxHazexX said:


> more fun yeeeah
> for those who do not know what the real meaning of ignoracne the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, ect.
> one word singularity.
> athism is a clear way to live and enjoy life and every thing in it with out feeling guilty about it I can covet my neighbors wife,endulg glutinously,view engraven images,and Murder my fellow man(my own personal up side),fornicate until my balls fall off and i can put myself before ALL without a stich of guilt and sleep like a infant on a tit


i dunno about you but the way i look at history...there is alot more blood shed in the name of god than just random people killin other random people


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## Wrekstar (Oct 1, 2011)

i think i started world war three!


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 2, 2011)

[video=youtube;8YPOTaUyvA0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YPOTaUyvA0[/video]


This is an amazing point; @ 5:17

[video=youtube;y02UlkYjSi0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y02UlkYjSi0&t=5m17s[/video]


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## CountGlochula (Oct 2, 2011)

Dear Believer:
I do not accept the Bible as God&#8217;s word because it contains thousand of errancies and contradictions that can not be solved, only rationalized. I refuse to accept Jesus as my personal savior, for his behavior and teachings often expose one who should be escaped and not worshipped. I ask that you read this pamphlet in light of the bible&#8217;s teachings; Christians should be _&#8220;open to reason&#8221;_ (James 3:17 RSV), that we should _&#8220;reason together&#8221; _(Isaiah 1:1 and _&#8220;he who hates correction will die&#8221;_ (Proverbs 15:10) to understand my perspective that the bible has MANY shortcomings.
1. According to your Bible I am to believe that human kind is sinful for Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge. Why are we being punished for the original sin? After all, they ate the forbidden fruit, we didn&#8217;t. Reason would lead one to say it&#8217;s their problem, not ours. Even the bible contradicts itself by claiming in Deuteronomy 24:16, _&#8220;children shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers.&#8221;_
2. We are told that the Bible has no scientific errors and is utterly perfect/protected, yet it says the bat is a bird (Leviticus 11:13 & 19), hares chew the cud (Leviticus 11:5-6), and some fowl (Leviticus 11:20-21) and insects (Leviticus 11:22-23) have four legs.
3. Heaven is supposed to be a perfect place. It is of course, the place you strive for and name &#8220;salvation&#8221;. Yet, it experienced a war (Revelation 12:7). How can there be a war in a perfect place and if it happened before why couldn&#8217;t it happen again? Why would I want to go to a place in which war can occur? That&#8217;s exactly what I&#8217;m trying to escape, aren&#8217;t you?
4. We are told salvation is obtained by faith alone (John 3:18 & 36) and then the Bible claims that it is repentance that shall save us (2 Peter 3:9) yet Jesus told a man to follow the Commandments-Matthew 19:16-1 8 (saving by works)-if he wanted eternal life. So which way is it and how do you know your belief is the correct one?
5. According to the text there are 29 cities listed in Joshua 15:21-32. One need only count them to see that biblical math is not to be trusted. The total is 36.
6. Surely you don&#8217;t believe Ecclesiastes 1:9 RSV (_&#8220;What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; there is nothing new under the sun&#8221;_)? How many cities had an atomic bomb dropped on them prior to 1945, and how many people walked on the moon before 1969?
7. If the Bible is our moral guide, then how can it make pornographic statements such as: _&#8220;...they may eat their own dung and drink their own piss with you&#8221;_ (2 Kings 18:27)? Also consult Numbers 31 where a whole tribe of people, including the elderly and children are slaughtered. The only survivors were the virginal women, who were later raped by the _&#8220;just and perfect&#8221;_ Moses and his men. Is that what you want your children reading on Sunday?
8. If God created everything, (Colossians 1:16, Ephesians 3:9, Revelation 4:11 & John 1:3), then he did create the world&#8217;s evil (Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:3. Thus, he is responsible. Any being who could create situations such as rape, death, malnutrition, disease, molestation and murder is certainly not fit for worship.
9. For justice to exist, punishment must fit the crime. No matter how many bad deeds one commits in this world, there is a limit. Yet, hell&#8217;s punishment is infinitely greater. It&#8217;s eternal. Shouldn&#8217;t a sinner suffer until remorse is felt and the crime is atoned for? What &#8220;justice&#8221; is there in infinite damnation?
10. Jesus said, &#8220;whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire&#8221; (Matthew 5:22). Yet, he himself did so repeatedly, as Matthew 27:19, Luke 11:40 & 12:20 show. Shouldn&#8217;t he be in danger of hell too? Jesus also told us to _&#8220;Love your enemies; bless them that curse you," _but ignored his own advice by repeatedly denouncing his opposition. Matthew 12:34 (_&#8220;0 generation of vipers&#8221;_), and Matthew 23 :27 (_&#8220;... hypocrites... ye are like unto whited sepulchres.&#8220;_) are excellent examples of hypocrisy. If Jesus himself is a sinner by his own admission then surely he can not be the _&#8220;perfect lamb of god&#8221;_.
11. Except those of biased Christian writers, there isn&#8217;t one writing outside the Bible in all of ancient history that clearly refers to Jesus of Nazareth. The decision to dedicate my life to a deity requires at least one shred of conclusive evidence. Your lord knows non believers exist as a result of this, yet he makes no attempt to supply proof. How can the bible claim god wants all in heaven if he doesn&#8217;t make efforts to ensure that we all believe in him?
12. Paul says Christianity lives or dies on the Resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:14-17). Yet Jesus made many promises concerning his return during the lifetime of his then followers. (Matthew 16:28: &#8220;There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom&#8221;. Matthew 23:36, 24:34, Mark.9:1, 13:30, Luke 9:27, 21:32 & John 21:22) None of these prophecies have come true. Does this not make Jesus a false prophet? If so wouldn&#8217;t that make Christianity invalid?
13. I find the idea that a man had to die for my sins revolting. If God was truly omnipotent he could have simply forgiven us. What kind of deity, would execute one child in order to forgive it&#8217;s others? Modern society would call an individual like this sadistic, insane and cruel. Surely, you would not worship a child killer, why do you expect me to? Would you find a judge worthy of the title who would allow my child to be executed in lieu of my sins?
14. John 14:12 states a follower in Jesus can perform any of his works and do it even greater. If you continue to insist I believe in Jesus, it is only fair I may ask of you to show just how strong your faith is. After all, you would be my &#8220;mentor&#8221; in Christ. I&#8217;m not a believer as of yet, but surely you are. Would you mind perhaps resurrecting a dead relative or walking on water? 
15. Okay, obviously you didn&#8217;t do number 14 and backed out with the &#8220;this is metaphorical&#8221; excuse. Surely you can try Mark 16:17-1 8 which says believers can drink &#8220;any deadly thing&#8221; and &#8220;it shall not hurt&#8221; them. But I don&#8217;t think you would be naive enough to drink any arsenic offered. Perhaps I&#8217;m wrong and you would be willing to test the Book&#8217;s veracity-&#8221;lay it on the line&#8221; so to speak?
16. All right, so now you have backed out of two of my questions. I&#8217;m starting to think you don&#8217;t really care about my salvation as much as you claim. Well, unlike your Jehovah, I shall be kind and offer a third chance at redemption. Consider Jesus&#8217; teaching in Luke 6:30 &#8220;Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.&#8221; Perhaps, if you emptied your wallet and &#8220;give of thee&#8221; I may seriously ponder accepting Jesus as my savior. A far greater number of Biblical discrepancies can be found on the web at the following addresses:
http://web2.airmail.net/capella/aguide/main.htm
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
http://www.cygnus-study.com


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## Luger187 (Oct 3, 2011)

ill just leave these here...

[video=youtube;-PICEKwnkhA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PICEKwnkhA[/video]
[video=youtube;lR72G8dRh4k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR72G8dRh4k&feature=relmfu[/video]


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 4, 2011)

...these are funny, and I actually like this guys' approach.

Turning water into wine is a matter of transmutation. Hell is a condition felt here on earth. Look around. Hell is man's lower nature, which, at present, is the ruling order.

I find it funny how people can pull a trigger then say "why does god let people suffer?"

I agree though that some sects of christianity use forgiveness as an excuse to do stupid things. But these people would use some other excuse if they were not christians so...

The extreme 'right' of christianity is a little 'off' to me. guns n' stuff...for a knowingly persecuted sect. 

*I don't know how much I like posting on a thread with this title. I don't have any points for anyone specifically, more just adding a few words here and there. It all seems so judgmental.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 4, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> It all seems so judgmental.


Aye, eye... aye...


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 4, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Aye, eye... aye...




lol... nice!


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## Jonesinator (Oct 4, 2011)

Wrekstar said:


> - Their is a God, explain the universe
> - Life is a test, poverty and pain exists for subjecting to God
> - Satan is an arch-angel
> - Atheism should not exist, why would you choose to believe in NOTHING
> ...


Atheist believe in nothing? Strange most Buddhist sects are Atheist, yet they believe in something. How can this be?


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 4, 2011)

> - Atheism should not exist, why would you choose to believe in NOTHING


It's not a choice. Once you have information that makes you form your decision, you can't pretend to choose the alternative. That's called intellectual dishonesty, and it creates cognitive dissonance.


You have information that leads you to believe Santa doesn't exist. So, would you say you still have the choice to believe in Santa? Sure, you could try to ignore the information you have, but inside you would know that you don't believe. It's the same with Atheists, we have "information" that makes us not believe in god, so the choice isn't really ours. 

You can act or not act upon your will, but you cannot *will *your will.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 4, 2011)

i believe in every thing that can be proven , i believe in facts not fiction


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## olylifter420 (Oct 6, 2011)

so hitler and stalin killed in the name of God? hmm strange! or the chinese and japanese?




blazinkill504 said:


> i dunno about you but the way i look at history...there is alot more blood shed in the name of god than just random people killin other random people


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## Heisenberg (Oct 6, 2011)

ARGUMENT FROM NAZI EVIL
(1) Hitler and his Nazis were atheists.
(2) I don't care what the historical evidence says about their being Christians. Christians cannot be evil, and only atheists would be capable of the Holocaust.
(3) So Nazis, like all truly evil people, are atheists.
(4) Therefore, all atheists are truly evil. They must be servants of Satan.
(5) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM NAZI DECEPTION
(1) Hitler and his Nazis were atheists.
(2) Yes, they fooled a lot of people into thinking they were Christians. That was propaganda. They were atheists.
(3) This proves that atheists are the masters of deception.
(4) Revelation says that the antichrist will deceive people.

ARGUMENT FROM MASS MURDER
(1) Stalin was an atheist.
(2) He murdered millions of people.
(3) Therefore, God exists.


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## sso (Oct 6, 2011)

Wrekstar said:


> - Their is a God, explain the universe*so universe = some guy created it?*
> - Life is a test, poverty and pain exists for subjecting to God *life can suck and thats because of god? (the dude that made us (allknowing?) is checking to see if we work the way he wanted? (to get the good ones out of the batch he baked?)*
> - Satan is an arch-angel* thats nice, angel = messenger,so hmm arch Definitions of 'arch' [ahrch]
> Dictionary.com - (Showing 2 definitions)
> ...


*its not that im not ok with the idea of god..

its all the crap about punishment and burning in flames and a capricious and jelous god.. (utterly cruel too, have you ever burned yourself? now imagine burning your entire body, now imagine that going on for eternity and this is the Standard punishment? right?

even humans arent this cruel  (not in general, electrocution even is brief and merciful in comparison.)

and the horrible thing about your way of thought is that NOT long back.

people burned people alive, here on earth saying "its for your own good, better this than BURN for ALL eternity"

and if you agreed to their bullshit, they burned it wet, so ya choked.
if ya were stubborn, they burned you slow, claiming the suffering and pain Cleansed your spirit.
dude.. in most sensible homes, you are one inch away from being shot.

why? cause no one wants that craziness again, only the foolish and the one´s that dont remember history are eager to repeat it.

our understanding of god today, is infinite love. (LOVE WOULD NEVER HURT, only if you drive it batshit insane with hurt or threaten its loved one´s (and since god is all, all is and everything is its loved one´s (even the most evil person is at its core, love.) (and needs it and therefore is destroyed simply by denying it) (long process though  lets just say that evil people get ugly quick) (not face ugly, though they get uglier with age (time writes like a book on your face) its eye´s ugly (the windows to the soul)) (though serial killers fool most, so i wouldnt go looking and thinkin you found evil, judge them by their acts, not their appearance or words (unless they are actually inciting people to violence)

check up on that "religion" google it. i dare ya.*


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## robert 14617 (Oct 6, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> . Christians cannot be evil,


 *Catholic sex abuse*



i'd have to disagree with you here


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 6, 2011)

robert 14617 said:


> *Catholic sex abuse*
> 
> i'd have to disagree with you here



...or just overall sex abuse. There are 1%ers out there that rape, etc, but they, at times, occupy 'security' at concerts etc. Are they all the same? Should everyone stop going to see concerts and similar events?


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## robert 14617 (Oct 6, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...or just overall sex abuse. There are 1%ers out there that rape, etc, but they, at times, occupy 'security' at concerts etc. Are they all the same? Should everyone stop going to see concerts and similar events?


 you must be one hell of an athlete to make a jump like this ,and lets try more like 6% of your evil priests that molest children 
*America Magazine*


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 6, 2011)

robert 14617 said:


> you must be one hell of an athlete to make a jump like this ,




...it's not that much of a jump really. I agree about history and things that happened. What I am saying is that generalization leads no where.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 6, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...it's not that much of a jump really. I agree about history and things that happened. What I am saying is that generalization leads no where.


 this thread is nothing but generalizations on your part


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 6, 2011)

robert 14617 said:


> this thread is nothing but generalizations on your part




...well, first, I'm not in this to argue with you. I was saying, in general even, that generalizations are of little value. There are members of my family that are clergy - men and women. I see them as having helped to establish hospitals etc. BUT, that's my experience with it. It's nothing in 'general', it's actual.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 6, 2011)

and there are actual convictions of clergy men


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 6, 2011)

robert 14617 said:


> and there are actual convictions of clergy men


...I know this, and I've said that I agree. I was trying to tell of MY experience of it. I have some 1%er friends, I've talked about this with them. They're okay with the discussion. You?


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## robert 14617 (Oct 6, 2011)

*Priests Around the World Are Raping Nuns*


add these to that 6% of priest pedophiles and the numbers keep going up still want to talk about good christians


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 6, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> so hitler and stalin killed in the name of God? hmm strange! or the chinese and japanese?


so those were the only people in history that killed anyone? lets forget the crusades, constantine, the current war goin on right now in the middle east, 1864-1877 china had a holy war with the muslims, fuck japan had a holy war with china. hmmm strange!


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 6, 2011)

robert 14617 said:


> *Priests Around the World Are Raping Nuns*
> 
> 
> add these to that 6% of priest pedophiles and the numbers keep going up still want to talk about good christians




...I'll say it again. I know, I can read. If an atheist hurts someone, then, they'll all do the same? I sure as hell don't think so.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 6, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I'll say it again. I know, I can read. If an atheist hurts someone, then, they'll all do the same? I sure as hell don't think so.


 your missing my point , the first quote i posted today was referring to a statement on how christians cannot be evil


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 6, 2011)

Truth is modern Christians can't be evil. If they are then they are hypocrites to their belief. I have never seen a real Christian, not myself, my family, nor anyone in any church (which I've gone to once or twice). The thing about repentance is that you're supposed to honestly not commit that "sin" anymore, but untrue Christians make excuses to do that. When people untruthly repent they know what they're doing, but they make them selves believe they are doing the right thing by making excuses for themselves.

I'm not saying people who "follow" Christianity have never abused it, because they have always done evil and they will still do evil (not all Christians).


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 6, 2011)

what happened to the people that lived before jesus? i mean eve already made sin and jesus didnt come right after them so what happened to all the people that lived before jesus that has sin in them already because of eve?


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## Heisenberg (Oct 6, 2011)

robert 14617 said:


> *Catholic sex abuse*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those arguments were meant to be self refuting, but point taken. The statement "Christians can't be evil" was meant to be obviously absurd. As for the molestation scandal, I am not sure we can blame religion for the abuse, but we can blame the church for the attempts to cover up and for allowing molestation to continue by not taking appropriate actions. That seems pretty evil to me.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 6, 2011)

straw man 

ad hominem 

nowhere in my statement did i say that since these guys were atheists' God exists.. 

most of what you have said are straw man or some other type of fallacy



> (1) Stalin was an atheist.
> (2) He murdered millions of people.
> (3) Therefore, God exists.[/QUOTE]


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## olylifter420 (Oct 6, 2011)

> we can blame the church for the attempts to cover up and for allowing molestation to continue by not taking appropriate actions. That seems pretty evil to me


i would have to agree


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 6, 2011)

....i guess nobody has an answer to my question :/


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## blazinkill504 (Oct 6, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Those arguments were meant to be self refuting, but point taken. The statement "Christians can't be evil" was meant to be obviously absurd. As for the molestation scandal, I am not sure we can blame religion for the abuse, but we can blame the church for the attempts to cover up and for allowing molestation to continue by not taking appropriate actions. That seems pretty evil to me.


i blame religion for it. maybe if they could get some ass and still serve god they wouldnt be rapin nuns and little boys


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## tyler.durden (Oct 6, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> As for the molestation scandal, I am not sure we can blame religion for the abuse, but we can blame the church for the attempts to cover up and for allowing molestation to continue by not taking appropriate actions. That seems pretty evil to me.


I'm not sure if it's accurate to blame religion for this molestation either, but it seems to me since Catholic dogma forbids priests to marry or have sex with women, their sexuality is more likely to come out sideways...


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## cannabineer (Oct 7, 2011)

tyler.durden said:


> I'm not sure if it's accurate to blame religion for this molestation either, but it seems to me since Catholic dogma forbids priests to marry or have sex with women, their sexuality is more likely to come out sideways...


That is bound to be painful! cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> i blame religion for it. maybe if they could get some ass and still serve god they wouldnt be rapin nuns and little boys


(not fighting, sorry if i sound like a dick) Now that wouldn't make sense now, would it?
If they would rape a little boy because they wanted to get some pussy, then why not go for the pussy? I mean either way they're are doing something "wrong".


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

tyler.durden said:


> I'm not sure if it's accurate to blame religion for this molestation either, but it seems to me since Catholic dogma forbids priests to marry or have sex with women, their sexuality is more likely to come out sideways...


Hey dude, read my last post ^^^. If either way they were gonna do something that is "bad" then why not go after legal girls? There is something very wrong with their own self. << I may have misinterpreted you post but that's just my logic behind why some priests are freaks. Maybe they looked at becoming a "priest" as an opportunity to do some sick shit with little kids.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

blazinkill504 said:


> ....i guess nobody has an answer to my question :/


Sorry dude, . Umm I can't answer that because I don't know what happens after death.


Once you read some of my posts you will see alot of times I put kind of a disclaimer that says I'm not trying to be a dick, but may sound like one. So yeah, once again (lol) I'm not trying to be a douche.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 7, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Hey dude, read my last post ^^^. If either way they were gonna do something that is "bad" then why not go after legal girls? There is something very wrong with their own self. << I may have misinterpreted you post but that's just my logic behind why some priests are freaks. Maybe they looked at becoming a "priest" as an opportunity to do some sick shit with little kids.


Catholic Dogma forbids priests to have sex with women, I don't think it mentions young boys. Alright! LOOPHOLE!!!


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## tyler.durden (Oct 7, 2011)

tyler.durden said:


> I'm not sure if it's accurate to blame religion for this molestation either, but it seems to me since Catholic dogma forbids priests to marry or have sex with women, their sexuality is more likely to come out sideways...





cannabineer said:


> That is bound to be painful! cn


Better than _going in_ sideways


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

tyler.durden said:


> Catholic Dogma forbids priests to have sex with women, I don't think it mentions young boys. Alright! LOOPHOLE!!!


Lol, loopholes.
But seriously, homosexuality is forbidden for priests too, so there is no way to justify their actions using the bible.


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## Meraxes (Oct 7, 2011)

how is this thread taking off? probably the same way religion took off. why dont you guys just start a new thread, something like "Religion For Idiots" or somethin


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 7, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> (not fighting, sorry if i sound like a dick) Now that wouldn't make sense now, would it?
> If they would rape a little boy because they wanted to get some pussy, then why not go for the pussy? I mean either way they're are doing something "wrong".


Because 'pussy" can fight back, tell the police, and give detailed descriptions of what the alleged attacker did to them. Little children, a) might not know it's wrong for a priest to do that to them b) more likely to make mistakes about describing what happened to them, and c) kids are easier to manipulate (especially when they're told god will kill them and their family if they tell anyone).


To someone as gullible as a kid, telling them a supernatural entity will hurt them is a very real thing.... it's like being told Santa won't come if you're not a good boy/girl. Which is usually fine.... People learn that Santa isn't real, the kids problem is they're surrounded by people that reinforce their beliefs that God is real, and can and will punish them for going against the church.


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## Luger187 (Oct 7, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> (not fighting, sorry if i sound like a dick) Now that wouldn't make sense now, would it?
> If they would rape a little boy because they wanted to get some pussy, then why not go for the pussy? I mean either way they're are doing something "wrong".





Hepheastus420 said:


> Hey dude, read my last post ^^^. If either way they were gonna do something that is "bad" then why not go after legal girls? There is something very wrong with their own self. << I may have misinterpreted you post but that's just my logic behind why some priests are freaks. Maybe they looked at becoming a "priest" as an opportunity to do some sick shit with little kids.


i think the reason they do it to kids is because kids dont talk. if he banged a woman, the whole town would know. and maybe its a psychological thrill to look like the good priest in public and secretly be a monster. maybe that dichotomy gets them off


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## olylifter420 (Oct 7, 2011)

maybe they were contemplating atheism and had no other way out?


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## tyler.durden (Oct 7, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol, loopholes.
> But seriously, homosexuality is forbidden for priests too, so there is no way to justify their actions using the bible.


Of course you're right, good point...


[video=youtube;Lnp5r7IVMG0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lnp5r7IVMG0&NR=1[/video]


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 7, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> maybe they were contemplating atheism and had no other way out?


Are you condoning raping a child? Because I'm confused by this post.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 7, 2011)

bum whoever you want , dont let a god tell you n o


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## Anjinsan (Oct 7, 2011)

I prefer to say I'm agnostic.

It's true...I don't know of any God. 

Does that negate the possibility of there being a God? 

No. But if one exists and he/she/it created me...they 
made me not intelligent enough to comprehend them and their plan. 
It's on them. Or maybe he/she/it is just a more advanced form of life than I am.
I'm the amoeba...they are the human. The amoeba does not know what the human will do or why.
The amoeba has no proof that the human exists. In return the human does not concern him/her/itself
with the actions of the amoeba. The human would be utterly unaware that some amoebas worship him/her/it.

So to me it's between me being an amoeba or there being no God. 

I'm agnostic. I'm not "wrong." I don't know.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 7, 2011)

Straw man.







Beefbisquit said:


> Are you condoning raping a child? Because I'm confused by this post.


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## cannabineer (Oct 7, 2011)

If you're considering raping a straw man, you are one tough mofo. Respect, tinged with being skeezed out. cn


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## olylifter420 (Oct 7, 2011)

It was in reference to the strawman fallacy. I thought you were smarter then that dude


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## olylifter420 (Oct 7, 2011)

I tot ur muum tot u bedder dan dant! Oyt, u wan sum fish n chips mate, i reckon u du? My muum told me



QUOTE=ThE sAtIvA hIgH;6419211]@ wreck star non of your points mean shit , please try to cum up with some evidence to back up your bullshit or it 
remains bullshit like your religion , harsh but true[/QUOTE]


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 7, 2011)

oly your a silly man i gasp that your still posting here , every point you have ever made in this sub forum has been raped and slaughted by higher inteligence than your own, but your still here , i guess religious indoctrination was pretty tuff on you


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Because 'pussy" can fight back, tell the police, and give detailed descriptions of what the alleged attacker did to them. Little children, a) might not know it's wrong for a priest to do that to them b) more likely to make mistakes about describing what happened to them, and c) kids are easier to manipulate (especially when they're told god will kill them and their family if they tell anyone).
> 
> 
> To someone as gullible as a kid, telling them a supernatural entity will hurt them is a very real thing.... it's like being told Santa won't come if you're not a good boy/girl. Which is usually fine.... People learn that Santa isn't real, the kids problem is they're surrounded by people that reinforce their beliefs that God is real, and can and will punish them for going against the church.


Lol, very true post, poor children.

And yeah I knew the answer already, my point was that priests have something else wrong with them. There's no way to blame their actions on religion. 
Like let's say religion didn't exist (all atheists are smiling, lol) well that nasty priest will no longer be a "priest" he will be a daycare worker.
Get what I'm saying? Like he's just fucked up, religion actually forbids his actions, but he alone is to be punished; not religion as a whole.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 7, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> (not fighting, sorry if i sound like a dick) Now that wouldn't make sense now, would it?
> If they would rape a little boy because they wanted to get some pussy, then why not go for the pussy? I mean either way they're are doing something "wrong".


You are absolutely correct. How many of you here, if not allowed to have pussy, would turn to adolescent penis instead? I could be denied sex for my entire life but it is not gonna make me attracted to children. If I were that desperate for pussy and worried about being found out, I would simply get a prostitute. Men molest boys because they are attracted to them sexually or are attracted to power (being sexually dominate), not because these kids offer a "sweet spot" of free ass without consequences. Someone who is sexually deviant finds the church appealing because it offers a life free of sex. It offers a way to renounce their sexuality and live free of sin. Of course once in the clergy they find God does not take away desire or offer any sort of fulfillment. These guys find themselves trusted around the very thing they are attracted to. 

I think it is unrealistic to require a man to live without sex, but I don't think it leads to pedophilia. I don't think there is anything in scripture or doctrine that encourages homosexual molestation. I think these men are responsible for their own actions and we can not blame their belief in a deity. The church then becomes a mafia wife, standing by and allowing things to happen although not responsible or participating in any of it. In it's divine ignorance the church sees molestation as Satan's temptations and is satisfied to simply pray for it to get better. In the meantime, since everyone is sorry and seeking forgiveness, it's okay to keep it just between the church and God, no need to involve the authorities when you have the ultimate authority on your side.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> oly your a silly man i gasp that your still posting here , every point you have ever made in this sub forum has been raped and slaughted by higher inteligence than your own, but your still here , i guess religious indoctrination was pretty tuff on you


Lol, do you think you're an intelligent individual? I don't think you're intelligent, at least not more than me or oly, ha.


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## cannabineer (Oct 7, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> ... I thought you were smarter then that dude


umm ... I don't get it. cn


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 7, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Lol, very true post, poor children.
> 
> And yeah I knew the answer already, my point was that priests have something else wrong with them. There's no way to blame their actions on religion.
> Like let's say religion didn't exist (all atheists are smiling, lol) well that nasty priest will no longer be a "priest" he will be a daycare worker.
> Get what I'm saying? Like he's just fucked up, religion actually forbids his actions, but he alone is to be punished; not religion as a whole.


I think it has something to do with forbidding people from doing an act completely natural (sex) - then putting them in a position with vulnerable people. Religion may not be completely responsible, but they certainly make a very fostering and forgiving environment for offenders, e.g., hiding the wrongful actions and providing easy targets.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> I think it has something to do with forbidding people from doing an act completely natural (sex) - then putting them in a position with vulnerable people. Religion may not be completely responsible, but they certainly make a very fostering and forgiving environment for offenders, e.g., hiding the wrongful actions and providing easy targets.


I agree, the church needs to get rid of these sick people. But like heis said, the priest can just get a prostitute.
This "priest" would have to like little boys for him to do that shit. 
If you were stuck on a island for life and a little boy was stuck there too, would you have sex with the boy? I hope not, lol. But you wouldn't because you're not attracted to little boys. These priests are in a whole other situation, they have prostitutes, affairs, or even the option of quiting and getting a wife. But nope they like their job because he's a sick sick guy. 
Religion itself is to not be blamed for his actions at all. The church can be blamed, but not religion.


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## cannabineer (Oct 7, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> You are absolutely correct. How many of you here, if not allowed to have pussy, would turn to adolescent penis instead? I could be denied sex for my entire life but it is not gonna make me attracted to children. If I were that desperate for pussy and worried about being found out, I would simply get a prostitute. Men molest boys because they are attracted to them sexually or are attracted to power (being sexually dominate), not because these kids offer a "sweet spot" of free ass without consequences. Someone who is sexually deviant finds the church appealing because it offers a life free of sex. It offers a way to renounce their sexuality and live free of sin. Of course once in the clergy they find God does not take away desire or offer any sort of fulfillment. These guys find themselves trusted around the very thing they are attracted to.
> 
> I think it is unrealistic to require a man to live without sex, but I don't think it leads to pedophilia. I don't think there is anything in scripture or doctrine that encourages homosexual molestation. I think these men are responsible for their own actions and we can not blame their belief in a deity. The church then becomes a mafia wife, standing by and allowing things to happen although not responsible or participating in any of it. In it's divine ignorance the church sees molestation as Satan's temptations and is satisfied to simply pray for it to get better. In the meantime, since everyone is sorry and seeking forgiveness, it's okay to keep it just between the church and God, no need to involve the authorities when you have the ultimate authority on your side.


The idea of seeking a prostitute is sensible, of course. But it introduces an element that the priest in question might consider a worse offense than unnatural sex ... premeditation. When a priest has the youngins around as an unconventional but fairly handy sexual resource, he can still convince himself that any malfeasance was unplanned, an accident of sorts. This element of semivoluntary self-seduction (with the distasteful consequence of statutory rape) is thrown out when a sex worker is added to the mix. cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> The idea of seeking a prostitute is sensible, of course. But it introduces an element that the priest in question might consider a worse offense than unnatural sex ... premeditation. When a priest has the youngins around as an unconventional but fairly handy sexual resource, he can still convince himself that any malfeasance was unplanned, an accident of sorts. This element of semivoluntary self-seduction (with the distasteful consequence of statutory rape) is thrown out when a sex worker is added to the mix. cn


Oohh very good point, .
But answer the question that follows my scenario, I know I already used it but it still makes sense IMO.
You're trapped on a island for life, and there's a little boy with you. You start remembering your last time having sex, you get aroused. Now here's your options.
A) just ignore your sexual urges.
B) masturbate, in the back of the island, away from the kid.
C) do the little kid.
Keep in mind the kid can't snitch you out.

Alright if you picked choice option A or B you are normal.
If you chose option C, there is something wrong with you.

These priests choose option C, therefore there is something wrong with them.


But still good point, he can and probably does misuse religion to has sex with little kids. But still you can't blame religion, just this freak. Guns (bible) can't hurt people, people (priests) hurt people (little kids).


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 7, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I think these men are responsible for their own actions and we can not blame their belief in a deity.


...now THIS I like.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 7, 2011)

heppy titus , i know your questioning what mommy told you right now , have strenght have power , you dont need religion to feel the things you are feelin right now


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> heppy titus , i know your questioning what mommy told you right now , have strenght have power , you dont need religion to feel the things you are feelin right now


Bringing in moms? Ha you argue like a small child. Anyways I already know I don't, pay attention, lol.
Like is said, everyone finds morals through certain people. I find my morals through, friends, family, and Christ.


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## cannabineer (Oct 7, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Oohh very good point, .
> But answer the question that follows my scenario, I know I already used it but it still makes sense IMO.
> You're trapped on a island for life, and there's a little boy with you. You start remembering your last time having sex, you get aroused. Now here's your options.
> A) just ignore your sexual urges.
> ...


 No argument with any of it. 
I would choose option b, but that is a personal choice
... the same one 99.99+% of priests would make as well. Imo. 
I am not blaming religion! I'm answering, or contributing to, Heis' scenario. cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> No argument with any of it.
> I would choose option b, but that is a personal choice
> ... the same one 99.99+% of priests would make as well. Imo.
> I am not blaming religion! I'm answering, or contributing to, Heis' scenario. cn


My apologies sir, .


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## MJstudent (Oct 7, 2011)

- Life is a test, poverty and pain exists for subjecting to God

poverty and pain exist because of fuck tards who want to rule the earth. why are you trying to conveert you a jahova witness? fag.


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

MJstudent said:


> - Life is a test, poverty and pain exists for subjecting to God
> 
> poverty and pain exist because of fuck tards who want to rule the earth. why are you trying to conveert you a jahova witness? fag.


Who's converting who?


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## Heisenberg (Oct 7, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> The idea of seeking a prostitute is sensible, of course. But it introduces an element that the priest in question might consider a worse offense than unnatural sex ... premeditation. When a priest has the youngins around as an unconventional but fairly handy sexual resource, he can still convince himself that any malfeasance was unplanned, an accident of sorts. This element of semivoluntary self-seduction (with the distasteful consequence of statutory rape) is thrown out when a sex worker is added to the mix. cn


I see the distinction. It's harder to resist something in the moment when opportunity arises than it is to resist making plans for it, and afterwards it's easier to reconcile as an accident. However, I don't think a clergyman who is resisting making plans to visit a call girl would see a young boy as opportunity. If the attraction is not there, why would it even occur to someone that young boys are a handy resource? If the only criteria is convenience there are lots of other opportunities available, such as the dog. That may sound silly, when is the dog ever an opportunity? The answer is, when you are attracted to it. You don't get with a dog, or anything you are not attracted to, simply for the lack of options. It would seem even gay priests would have the oportunity to be with adult men without premeditation and blame it on a moment of weakness. Convenience probably does play a role, but only for those who have the attraction to begin with. I think the church attracts those with this desire, and fosters it to some degree, but does not create it.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 7, 2011)

I think the idea may be that anyone who isn't centered could potentially constellate something of a botched attempt at something positive. Priests, in general, are not pedophiles. I wonder what the ratio is from them to the gp - I mean, how many non-clergy have done that?. I realize that it's a matter of trust, which does make it different. But, I wouldn't want to do that to my child and I wouldn't want to break the trust we have (priest or not). There are plenty of secular teachers who did / do those things and they hang around kids all day long. In fact, one of them could hand a parent a report card with a smile on their face and most would just say 'thanks!' (pending good grades, of course  )

Heisenberg said that maybe the church attracts these types. The church, or any group of that nature, is made up of people with some good libidos, lets say. This is why 'holy' people are 'holy' - they control the 'seed'. It is obvious that many have failed at that. Actually, I'd say that it is very unfortunate...for everyone.


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## robert 14617 (Oct 7, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> ... the same one 99.99+% of priests would make as well. Imo.
> I am not blaming religion! I'm answering, or contributing to, Heis' scenario. cn


 unfortunately for the children the number who choose not to harm the children is less then that more like 94%


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## olylifter420 (Oct 7, 2011)

> your a silly man i gasp that your still posting here ,



are you trying to say, "you are a silly man, i gasp you are still posting here."? 



> every point you have ever made in this sub forum has been raped and slaughted


[video=youtube;f68VXKMZT1Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f68VXKMZT1Q&feature=related[/video]



> higher inteligence than your own,


what are you talking about? your a silly man man your!!



> but your still here


yes, i like discussing with MP and seeing what Hep posts and laughing at your stupid attempts at i really don't know what your point is.



> i guess religious indoctrination was pretty tuff on you


to be honest, i was never "indoctrinated" by anyone. NOw, after seeing your repeated "indoctrination" bullshit, it is safe to say that you, yourself were a victim of something so stark so grim that, a great seed of hate and disgust was planted and grew into the piece of shit you are today.


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## MidWestAlki (Oct 7, 2011)

Meh I am a scientist... All natural selection here... I don't believe in magic... More a better understanding in the math that is universal law than anything...


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## robert 14617 (Oct 7, 2011)

i respect that christians believe, as soon as i say i have questions all of a sudden im put into a category of atheist, its not that simple


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 7, 2011)

MidWestAlki said:


> Meh I am a scientist... All natural selection here... I don't believe in magic... More a better understanding in the math that is universal law than anything...




This isn't a stab at your post, it's an actual question. What is the general atheistic consensus on where math came from? - That you know of, at least, I'm not asking you to be the spokesperson.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 7, 2011)

robert 14617 said:


> i respect that christians believe, as soon as i say i have questions all of a sudden im put into a category of atheist, its not that simple




It's too bad that some do that. It's happened to me quite a few times. I've concluded that they can't explain what they want to say... or are just really fckn ignorant. Man, the chasm between me and say a baptist 'feels' huge sometimes because I am not a 'real' christian to them. It's fckd.

You guys aren't the only ones. It's just people, not the banner they carry. (imho)


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## cannabineer (Oct 7, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I see the distinction. It's harder to resist something in the moment when opportunity arises than it is to resist making plans for it, and afterwards it's easier to reconcile as an accident. However, I don't think a clergyman who is resisting making plans to visit a call girl would see a young boy as opportunity. If the attraction is not there, why would it even occur to someone that young boys are a handy resource? If the only criteria is convenience there are lots of other opportunities available, such as the dog. That may sound silly, when is the dog ever an opportunity? The answer is, when you are attracted to it. You don't get with a dog, or anything you are not attracted to, simply for the lack of options. It would seem even gay priests would have the oportunity to be with adult men without premeditation and blame it on a moment of weakness. Convenience probably does play a role, but only for those who have the attraction to begin with. I think the church attracts those with this desire, and fosters it to some degree, but does not create it.


I'm not refuting your claim that some attraction has to be there in the first place. However, when I consider the lot of a man in or near his sexual prime, faced with restrictions, frustrations and marginal opportunity, "attracted" can easily morph into "not completely repelled". In the final analysis it's all jesuitry, which is rather appropriate to the situation imo. cn


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## robert 14617 (Oct 7, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> This isn't a stab at your post, it's an actual question. What is the general atheistic consensus on where math came from? - That you know of, at least, I'm not asking you to be the spokesperson.


 [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]*circa 30,000 B.C.:* Paleolithic peoples in Europe etch markings on bones to represent numbers.

*circa 5,000 B.C.:* The Egyptians use a decimal number system, a precursor to modern number systems which are also based on the number 10. The Ancient Egyptians also made use of a multiplication system that relied on successive doublings and additions in order to find the products of relatively large numbers. For example, 176 x 313 might be calculated by first finding the double of 313 (313 x 2 = 626), then finding the double of that number (313 x 4 = 1252), the double of that number (313 x 8 = 2,504) and so on (313 x 16 = 5,008; 313 x 32 = 10,016; 313 x 64 = 20,032; 313 x 128 = 40,064....). Thus, using these known products produced by doublings, and knowing that 128 + 32 + 16 = 176, then you add the known products of 40,064 + 10,016 + 5,008, to acheive the final answer of 176 x 313 = 55,088.
where were you going with this question

[/FONT]


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 7, 2011)

robert 14617 said:


> [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]*circa 30,000 B.C.:* Paleolithic peoples in Europe etch markings on bones to represent numbers.
> 
> *circa 5,000 B.C.:* The Egyptians use a decimal number system, a precursor to modern number systems which are also based on the number 10. The Ancient Egyptians also made use of a multiplication system that relied on successive doublings and additions in order to find the products of relatively large numbers. For example, 176 x 313 might be calculated by first finding the double of 313 (313 x 2 = 626), then finding the double of that number (313 x 4 = 1252), the double of that number (313 x 8 = 2,504) and so on (313 x 16 = 5,008; 313 x 32 = 10,016; 313 x 64 = 20,032; 313 x 128 = 40,064....). Thus, using these known products produced by doublings, and knowing that 128 + 32 + 16 = 176, then you add the known products of 40,064 + 10,016 + 5,008, to acheive the final answer of 176 x 313 = 55,088.
> where were you going with this question
> ...





...to play drums. I rarely have the house to myself on a Friday night. 

And to answer with all truthfulness, nowhere. I wanted to know exactly what the question asked, and that's it. I really didn't know for myself, this seems like a good place to ask.


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## MidWestAlki (Oct 7, 2011)

Math is a conception with set limits(whether we know them or not) which speak for all logic. As to where it came from, I know just as much about natural selection as you know about your beliefs... What I have learned through stories of ancient and current times... The simple explanation that faith is the one all answer to all of the universe's questions should not limit my conceptions or discoveries of truth's. Whether or not they have been proven yet is again a conception, just as all sermons invite themselves. Any religious leader i.e. a pastor, uses their conception to project spiritual guidance over a number of people who in turn have their own conceptions. I feel elated in questioning answers unknown, but would never tell someone there is a definite answer. If there was, and you knew it for sure, there would be an end to all questioning and thus religious choice would expire. If and when that may occur, threads like this will be obsolete, and no one would have the aspiration for all this rhetoric...


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## Prefontaine (Oct 7, 2011)

Wrekstar said:


> - Their is a God, explain the universe
> - Life is a test, poverty and pain exists for subjecting to God
> - Satan is an arch-angel
> - Atheism should not exist, why would you choose to believe in NOTHING
> ...


1st why do you need some kind of meaning for your life, in order to be happy?
2nd Satan doesnt exist to people who dont believe in god in the first place
3rd Atheism is not the belief in nothing simply the belief that there is no god, which is logical when you base your ideas on what is observable or repeatable for verification.
4th telling people not to make jokes because they will burn in hell, makes a great intro for a joke
5th any true believer in god will accept an atheists lack of faith understanding that god comes to all people in his own good time, not yours, hence the rule about not judging others
6th if your not a certain religion than according to many religions you are going to burn in hell for not accepting jesus christ as your savior, which would make you a christian
7th if jesus christ died for the sins of man, then he died for all the sins of man including denial of thy father, aka blasphemy. 
8th good for you making yourself feel big by judging the lives of others, unfortunately by doing so you are acting in a prideful manner, which is one of the biggest sins of all.

in other words let god spread his own word, you dont get points in the afterlife for getting converts, and even if you did, im pretty sure the churches are stealing all your commissions.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 7, 2011)

MidWestAlki said:


> Math is a conception with set limits(whether we know them or not) which speak for all logic. As to where it came from, I know just as much about natural selection as you know about your beliefs... What I have learned through stories of ancient and current times... The simple explanation that faith is the one all answer to all of the universe's questions should not limit my conceptions or discoveries of truth's. Whether or not they have been proven yet is again a conception, just as all sermons invite themselves. Any religious leader i.e. a pastor, uses their conception to project spiritual guidance over a number of people who in turn have their own conceptions. I feel elated in questioning answers unknown, but would never tell someone there is a definite answer. If there was, and you knew it for sure, there would be an end to all questioning and thus religious choice would expire. If and when that may occur, threads like this will be obsolete, and no one would have the aspiration for all this rhetoric...


Nicely done.

I'd say faith is needed until action should take place at the end of a 'sentence' of questions. Which looks like a 'scientific faith' of sorts. When an atheist goes to buy a book on purely calculable things, he cannot calculate all events ahead of him as to ensure safe passage. He takes it on faith that he will get back and further his thoughts or theories until they fail or pass and he moves again to the next question. But I guess that is fairly obvious in a way.

Oh yeah, I wanted to say that I've never been held back on anything in a religious sense. No one suffocated me with a book or anything like that.


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## Prefontaine (Oct 7, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> This isn't a stab at your post, it's an actual question. What is the general atheistic consensus on where math came from? - That you know of, at least, I'm not asking you to be the spokesperson.


shortly after some monkey learned to associate the number of bananas on the tree with the number of fingers on his hand to the number of monkeys in his family, this can also be called learning to count,

if your idea of creation was accurate, wouldnt babies come out with full knowledge of how to use their bodies and do math and science?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 7, 2011)

Prefontaine said:


> shortly after some monkey learned to associate the number of bananas on the tree with the number of fingers on his hand to the number of monkeys in his family, this can also be called learning to count,
> 
> if your idea of creation was accurate, wouldnt babies come out with full knowledge of how to use their bodies and do math and science?




...suppose my idea of creation claims that they do but must wake to it first. No one on this side of the screen denies evolution. Christ is a consciousness. Jesus was the walker. Creator / Created - it's a sine wave of sorts. Sun / Moon and the 'us' in between.

Babies actually teach us that intuition is modus operandi for humans, followed by the use of the intellect, then eventually back to intuition. Look at a senior, someone who's made it to 90. Not many can take care of themselves better than babies.


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## Prefontaine (Oct 7, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> Nicely done.
> 
> I'd say faith is needed until action should take place at the end of a 'sentence' of questions. Which looks like a 'scientific faith' of sorts. When an atheist goes to buy a book on purely calculable things, he cannot calculate all events ahead of him as to ensure safe passage. He takes it on faith that he will get back and further his thoughts or theories until they fail or pass and he moves again to the next question. But I guess that is fairly obvious in a way.
> 
> Oh yeah, I wanted to say that I've never been held back on anything in a religious sense. No one suffocated me with a book or anything like that.


accept that the scientific mind accepts that all thoughts and movements ideas and plans are mathematical calculations based in a computer of biological processors, so yeah the subconcious is continually doing calculations to figure out how much pressure to apply to type, or do a pushup, all these things take precise calculations by your brain, and guess what, math is nothing more than that same processor cognitively using logic to understand the surrounding world,


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## MidWestAlki (Oct 7, 2011)

Absolutely not. With the right algorithm and all variables accounted for, one could plan for exactly what is to happen(in theory). To really dissect your post though, you are MAJORLY confusing chance and chaos theory with faith. Who says one has intentions on being safe or not? Now that is where you "faith" comes in to play. You sir, obviously have faith in everyone wanting to secure safe passage to bookstores worldwide...



eye exaggerate said:


> Nicely done.
> 
> I'd say faith is needed until action should take place at the end of a 'sentence' of questions. Which looks like a 'scientific faith' of sorts. When an atheist goes to buy a book on purely calculable things, he cannot calculate all events ahead of him as to ensure safe passage. He takes it on faith that he will get back and further his thoughts or theories until they fail or pass and he moves again to the next question. But I guess that is fairly obvious in a way.
> 
> Oh yeah, I wanted to say that I've never been held back on anything in a religious sense. No one suffocated me with a book or anything like that.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 7, 2011)

MidWestAlki said:


> Absolutely not. With the right algorithm and all variables accounted for, one could plan for exactly what is to happen(in theory). To really dissect your post though, you are MAJORLY confusing chance and chaos theory with faith. Who says one has intentions on being safe or not? Now that is where you "faith" comes in to play. You sir, obviously have faith in everyone wanting to secure safe passage to bookstores worldwide...




..ok - I do, ya got me.


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## Prefontaine (Oct 7, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...suppose my idea of creation claims that they do but must wake to it first. No one on this side of the screen denies evolution. Christ is a consciousness. Jesus was the walker. Creator / Created - it's a sine wave of sorts. Sun / Moon and the 'us' in between.


YOU, mean because like sensory nerves are still growing into the tissue as motor skills are initially developed, but still whether creation is behind it or not, the brain is continually doing calculations when you walk down the street to control the mass of individual cells that make up the human body,


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 7, 2011)

Prefontaine said:


> YOU, mean because like sensory nerves are still growing into the tissue as motor skills are initially developed, but still whether creation is behind it or not, the brain is continually doing calculations when you walk down the street to control the mass of individual cells that make up the human body,



...well sure it is, motor-instictual-sexual for that stuff, yes? Must take an intelligence to do all that work behind the scenes.


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## Prefontaine (Oct 7, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...well sure it is, motor-instictual-sexual for that stuff, yes? Must take an intelligence to do all that work behind the scenes.


 yes but the actual control, sensory data, and calculations are all performed through chemical reactions, therefore every one of those calculations can be broken down and mathematically represented in such a way that given the appropriate technology they could be exactly reproduced therefore you cannot use the shear complexity of life as proof of a higher power,


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 7, 2011)

Prefontaine said:


> yes but the actual control, sensory data, and calculations are all performed through chemical reactions, therefore every one of those calculations can be broken down and mathematically represented in such a way that given the appropriate technology they could be exactly reproduced therefore you cannot use the shear complexity of life as proof of a higher power,


...I wouldn't use complexity as an excuse. I like to build stuff and make good use of calculations and technology. I feel that what is outside of me was there before me. Something was there before me. In a more micro / macro sense I'd say that it is the same with the universe. This is an oroborus type of conversation, by the way. I don't see what can be gained. You are saying that because something can be calculated a creative agent is not needed. You just might be that creative agent in my opinion. We haven't proved humans are capable being more or less peaceful regardless of who's at the helm. That's the baby metaphor. Has there been 1 outstanding invention that hasn't fallen prey to stupidity in tandem with intelligence? As soon as something decent is made for the better it's taken to extremes - usually because of money and power. My idea of creation is in the middle of that. It's power, not force... how about power before force?

Some people are called alchemists. I believe for a reason too.


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## Prefontaine (Oct 7, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I wouldn't use complexity as an excuse. I like to build stuff and make good use of calculations and technology. I feel that what is outside of me was there before me. Something was there before me. In a more micro / macro sense I'd say that it is the same with the universe. This is an oroborus type of conversation, by the way. I don't see what can be gained. You are saying that because something can be calculated a creative agent is not needed. You just might be that creative agent in my opinion. We haven't proved humans are capable being more or less peaceful regardless of who's at the helm. That's the baby metaphor. Has there been 1 outstanding invention that hasn't fallen prey to stupidity in tandem with intelligence? As soon as something decent is made for the better it's taken to extremes - usually because of money and power. My idea of creation is in the middle of that. It's power, not force... how about power before force?
> 
> Some people are called alchemists. I believe for a reason too.


i was responding to the analogy of the safe walk to the bookstore used earlier


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 7, 2011)

Prefontaine said:


> i was responding to the analogy of the safe walk to the bookstore used earlier



High, I'm pretty high. I think the sign over the door said that was ok.


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## MidWestAlki (Oct 7, 2011)

What I am gathering from all this is that I am supposed to believe in stories from a time when germs and bacteria were known as "EVIL SPIRITS." We have technology today that allows us to dictate what we are to do with these, cures, cultivation, and treatment regimens. I can recall history teaching us that humanity fears what it cannot understand and absolutely MUST find an explanation for everything. I feel the same reason we find a "GOD" is the same reason we burned "witches" for the disease and atrophy they apparently caused... These things we all know today to be caused by viral and bacterial infections of the body... Again, a way to cope with and explain the unknown...


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## tyler.durden (Oct 7, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> If you're considering raping a straw man, you are one tough mofo. Respect, tinged with being skeezed out. cn


The Tinman and cowardly lion may want in on the action. Dorothy likes to watch...


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 7, 2011)

MidWestAlki said:


> What I am gathering from all this is that I am supposed to believe in stories from a time when germs and bacteria were known as "EVIL SPIRITS." We have technology today that allows us to dictate what we are to do with these, cures, cultivation, and treatment regimens. I can recall history teaching us that humanity fears what it cannot understand and absolutely MUST find an explanation for everything. I feel the same reason we find a "GOD" is the same reason we burned "witches" for the disease and atrophy they apparently caused... These things we all know today to be caused by viral and bacterial infections of the body... Again, a way to cope with and explain the unknown...




...I don't think that god was driving the stakes into people. I didn't see some grey haired old fellow at the gas station when dude was shot, you know? What would he use for a getaway car?

What if it was some kind of 'evil bacteria spirit' that did the attacking, it doesn't make a case for either side.

For better or for worse, here's an idea. It's from Blaise Pascal.

"If there is a God, He is infinitely incomprehensible, since, having neither parts nor limits, He has no affinity to us. We are then incapable of knowing either what He is or if He is....
..."God is, or He is not." But to which side shall we incline? Reason can decide nothing here. There is an infinite chaos which separated us. A game is being played at the extremity of this infinite distance where heads or tails will turn up. What will you wager? According to reason, you can do neither the one thing nor the other; according to reason, you can defend neither of the propositions.
Do not, then, reprove for error those who have made a choice; for you know nothing about it. "No, but I blame them for having made, not this choice, but a choice; for again both he who chooses heads and he who chooses tails are equally at fault, they are both in the wrong. The true course is not to wager at all."
Yes; but you must wager. It is not optional. You are embarked. Which will you choose then? Let us see. Since you must choose, let us see which interests you least. You have two things to lose, the true and the good; and two things to stake, your reason and your will, your knowledge and your happiness; and your nature has two things to shun, error and misery. Your reason is no more shocked in choosing one rather than the other, since you must of necessity choose. This is one point settled. But your happiness? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.
"That is very fine. Yes, I must wager; but I may perhaps wager too much." Let us see. Since there is an equal risk of gain and of loss, if you had only to gain two lives, instead of one, you might still wager. But if there were three lives to gain, you would have to play (since you are under the necessity of playing), and you would be imprudent, when you are forced to play, not to chance your life to gain three at a game where there is an equal risk of loss and gain. But there is an eternity of life and happiness. And this being so, if there were an infinity of chances, of which one only would be for you, you would still be right in wagering one to win two, and you would act stupidly, being obliged to play, by refusing to stake one life against three at a game in which out of an infinity of chances there is one for you, if there were an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain. But there is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite."


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 7, 2011)

robert 14617 said:


> i respect that christians believe, as soon as i say i have questions all of a sudden im put into a category of atheist, its not that simple


ATHEIST!!!! Nah, Jk dude, ha. 
Yup those people are called blind followers. The just block out every question that goes against their beliefs. Stubborn stubborn people, (please don't be offended) are you agnostic?


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## robert 14617 (Oct 7, 2011)

raised southern baptist , joined presbyterian church in 02 now on the fence , yes i would say i am * agnostic 
*


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## mindphuk (Oct 8, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I don't think that god was driving the stakes into people. I didn't see some grey haired old fellow at the gas station when dude was shot, you know? What would he use for a getaway car?
> 
> What if it was some kind of 'evil bacteria spirit' that did the attacking, it doesn't make a case for either side.
> 
> ...


[video=youtube;v9WRG4e6m2s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9WRG4e6m2s[/video]

[video=youtube;fZpJ7yUPwdU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZpJ7yUPwdU[/video]


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## Luger187 (Oct 16, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> This isn't a stab at your post, it's an actual question. What is the general atheistic consensus on where math came from? - That you know of, at least, I'm not asking you to be the spokesperson.


you should read the book Zero by Charles Seife. its got a lot of history about math. mostly about zero though


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 16, 2011)

Luger187 said:


> you should read the book Zero by Charles Seife. its got a lot of history about math. mostly about zero though


...thanks. I'll do that for sure.


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## MidWestAlki (Oct 19, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I don't think that god was driving the stakes into people. I didn't see some grey haired old fellow at the gas station when dude was shot, you know? What would he use for a getaway car?
> 
> What if it was some kind of 'evil bacteria spirit' that did the attacking, it doesn't make a case for either side.
> 
> ...



Well played my friend... Very well played. Can you see what I am getting at though? There are those with beliefs and those with questions. No one knows the right questions or the right "beliefs" to follow. This means that pushing on and/or labeling someone is absolutely absurd. I don't label myself an atheist. I don't label myself anything other than human. These types of posts are redundant. Although I do find myself health


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## MidWestAlki (Oct 19, 2011)

Haha hit post by accident. Anywho, I do find a healthy debate a good time. Problem here is that not many on here want to leave them as a debate and make them more of an argument. I will omit any more comments I have on this subject at least for this thread...


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 19, 2011)

MidWestAlki said:


> Haha hit post by accident. Anywho, I do find a healthy debate a good time. Problem here is that not many on here want to leave them as a debate and make them more of an argument. I will omit any more comments I have on this subject at least for this thread...


...I left this in an attempt to not beat a dead horse. There are no scientific wagers, I'd say. The point "for better or for worse" is in the first sentence. "We are then incapable of knowing either what He is or if He is...."

...I know that i exist. In the I and as the i... It's a choice i make. Call it a wager, or whatever you deem appropriate.


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## Pat the stoner (Oct 21, 2011)

To believe in what we wish is our right by existing , by being alive . It is also our right according to the U.S.Constitution . To impose upon others beliefs is oppression , walk like me talk like me be like believe like me or your going to hell , Just sounds like christian fascist oppression to me . I do feel that some people have the need to impose upon others something like that in the name of christianity , however I think christianity is really not about oppression at all . Supposed to be about love , forgiveness , and truth - wonderful ideals. Unfortunately I don't see it arriving at that too often . As mature adults we should already know whats right or wrong most of the time . If someone needs a book to tell them not to try and have sex behind their partners back or with their friends wife , or to not kill the guy next door then I would say they are really lost and empty anyway. These are things we all should know we should not need a book to tell us . It is our right to believe in what we wish as long as it isn't harming others . Just like smoking weed , you wouldn't blow smoke in someones face who doesn't smoke weed and say it's good see , would you ? Or hold them down and force them to smoke pot . Then why try to do it intellectually then . It just turns people off and upsets them . Just like I dont need apiece of paper or a book to tell me I have a right to protect myself if my life is threatened . My thoughts and beliefs should be like that , not imposed upon as long as I'm not harming anyone. Likewise so should those of others as well . Christians call it the golden rule but I have rarely seen it applied by them . If you have a faith like that full of wonderfull beliefs then maybe apply them in a kind way . Just be cool about it . Not like Hitler in a fascist authoritarian way . Me I don't really have an answer either way , I just know what I believe in , it doesn't mean I'm right or wrong or that anyone else is either . Just that I should respect the rights of others as I wish they would mine.


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I was waiting for someone to refer to that one. Think about it though. We would be doomed to Sheol, grave, or hell without jesus' sacrifice. And that's what that passage is saying. He was saying that if it wasn't for me you don't get to meet and live with god. It doesn't say if you don't believe in me you go to hell.


*Revelation 20
*

*12*And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 
*13*And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 
*14*And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. *15*And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


*John 3*
*36*He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 21, 2011)

BudDub said:


> *Revelation 20
> *
> 
> *12*And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
> ...




...look up 'second death' to try and understand the first one - and hell.


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...look up 'second death' to try and understand the first one - and hell.


What about the second?


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...look up 'second death' to try and understand the first one - and hell.


The _second death_ is an ultimate and eternal separation from God. The expression is found four times in the book of Revelation ( 2:11; 20:6,14; 21:. J.H. Thayer defined the &#8220;second death&#8221; as &#8220;the miserable state of the wicked dead in hell&#8221; (*Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament*, Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark, 1958, p. 283).


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...look up 'second death' to try and understand the first one - and hell.


*The "First" death then, is the physical death that each person dies on this earth - a physical, but TEMPORARY death *from which everyone will be resurrected. Those who are righteous will be resurrected to everlasting life and those who are wicked will be resurrected for the judgment and the *"Second Death", believed by nearly ALL to be a physical death also, but this time the death is presumed to be PERMANENT! *


This is me looking up second death on christian websites no less..... What am I missing here?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 21, 2011)

BudDub said:


> *The "First" death then, is the physical death that each person dies on this earth - a physical, but TEMPORARY death *from which everyone will be resurrected. Those who are righteous will be resurrected to everlasting life and those who are wicked will be resurrected for the judgment and the *"Second Death", believed by nearly ALL to be a physical death also, but this time the death is presumed to be PERMANENT! *
> 
> 
> This is me looking up second death on christian websites no less..... What am I missing here?


I'm sure that is what is meant by "don't be afraid of the one who can take your life, but 'afraid = reverent toward' the one who can take your soul (fire)."

Presupposition, sure, but I am well with it. Anyway, now we'd have to start defining what 'righteous - wicked - infradimensions' is / are and I just smoked something found in: https://www.rollitup.org/inspired-art/465417-stoner-photography-6.html#post6497331 ...it's 9:17


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> I'm sure that is what is meant by "don't be afraid of the one who can take your life, but 'afraid = reverent toward' the one who can take your soul (fire)."
> 
> Presupposition, sure, but I am well with it. Anyway, now we'd have to start defining what 'righteous - wicked - infradimensions' is / are and I just smoked something found in: https://www.rollitup.org/inspired-art/465417-stoner-photography-6.html#post6497331 ...it's 9:17


No don't worry about it the Bible defines all that too. And this is all just assuming that not only is god real but this particular religion is real and that we even have souls at all. Of course theres no real actual proof of any of this because that would just be too easy


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 21, 2011)

BudDub said:


> No don't worry about it the Bible defines all that too. And this is all just assuming that not only is god real but this particular religion is real and that we even have souls at all. Of course theres no real actual proof of any of this because that would just be too easy


...why do you say that it's particular to a certain religion?


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...why do you say that it's particular to a certain religion?


Uh well because we were just talking about the Bible and what it means to its followers. When I said we had to assume that this particular religion was correct even if there was a god, I meant any religion that bases its faith on the Bible (because thats what we were talking about, get it?)


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 21, 2011)

BudDub said:


> Uh well because we were just talking about the Bible and what it means to its followers. When I said we had to assume that this particular religion was correct even if there was a god, I meant any religion that bases its faith on the Bible (because thats what we were talking about, get it?)


...the bible is a few different books. I get it. Like rewrites and amalgamations of mithraism, etc. It's so easy to pinpoint a soul.


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## Basshead (Oct 21, 2011)

booty butt booty butt booty butt cheeks!


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## BudDub (Oct 21, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...the bible is a few different books. I get it. Like rewrites and amalgamations of mithraism, etc. It's so easy to pinpoint a soul.


that makes no sense...


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## DankyPurp (Oct 21, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYigmGyN2RQ


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 21, 2011)

Basshead said:


> booty butt booty butt booty butt cheeks!


Exactly man....


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 21, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> It's so easy to pinpoint a soul.


If it was easy to pinpoint the soul science wouldn't have a problem with dualism.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 21, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> If it was easy to pinpoint the soul science wouldn't have a problem with dualism.


...makes for a wide spectrum of vocation


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 21, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...makes for a wide spectrum of vocation


Dualism is dead... lol

Or it's certainly got it's work cut out for it.... there are a plethora of other theories that better describe the mind/brain connection. Identity Theory, Functionalism (strong AI and Blackbox) etc etc etc etc... What it boils down to is there are far more likely explanations for consciousness than a soul.


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## cannabitch81 (Oct 27, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Ha frustrating for us? Pshh it's funny that you think we care if you believe or not. I mean what does your belief do for us? Ehh when we die we will see what happens.


If religious ppl don't care if we believe or not, why the hell do they knock on my door and beg me to go to their church? This always seems to happen while i'm getting high and watching porn. LOL


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## cannabineer (Oct 27, 2011)

cannabitch81 said:


> If religious ppl don't care if we believe or not, why the hell do they knock on my door and beg me to go to their church? This always seems to happen while i'm getting high and watching porn. LOL


If you go directly to the door, I'll guarantee they'll stop coming. cn


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## cannabitch81 (Oct 28, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> If you go directly to the door, I'll guarantee they'll stop coming. cn


LMFAO... Omg, you set me up soooo good, but i'm going to bite my tongue and keep it clean.


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## cannabineer (Oct 28, 2011)

cannabitch81 said:


> LMFAO... Omg, you set me up soooo good, but i'm going to bite my tongue and keep it clean.


But you _won't_ stop coming, right?  (like in "Grandma's Boy", ~grin~) cn


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

cannabitch81 said:


> If religious ppl don't care if we believe or not, why the hell do they knock on my door and beg me to go to their church? This always seems to happen while i'm getting high and watching porn. LOL


They put up a small effort to get you to follow their religion. The bible says to try to convert people and if they don't want too, then just leave them alone....


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## RawBudzski (Oct 28, 2011)

Why only one.. :[


Wrekstar said:


> - Their is a God, explain the universe
> - Life is a test, poverty and pain exists for subjecting to God
> - Satan is an arch-angel
> - Atheism should not exist, why would you choose to believe in NOTHING
> ...


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## cannabitch81 (Nov 1, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> They put up a small effort to get you to follow their religion. The bible says to try to convert people and if they don't want too, then just leave them alone....


I had Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door a few months ago, i told them i was busy cleaning. These pushy chicks wanted to come in and help me "clean". If ppl wanted to be a member of these churches they know where to go.


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## hmmmmm..... (Nov 3, 2011)

if the bible was written by men for men to teach men/oppress women with fear then wheres the god in that sentance?
plus iv not personally seen the original god hand me down version of the bible so i dont stand by it. then again life, is a strong body found in unhabitable places that we could not live so if life is in places where we thought not then there might be a paradise far out in the reaches of space where all the energy goes too but it shouldnt really in our concievability be there? then again i still havnt seen that original bible.


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## axionjaxson (Jan 5, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I believe in god and have read and done research on alot of the bible, I'm just saying that it doesn't say people go to hell for not believing.


 you must be a witness .


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## axionjaxson (Jan 5, 2012)

im saved by JESUS btw


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## Filthy Phil (Jan 5, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Alright I'm not arguing with you but where in the bible does it say that? I have asked alot of people but nobody has ever given me an answer.


Romans chapter 5 I think...

But this guy is funny, so funny that I WILL in fact still be laughing in hell.


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## Filthy Phil (Jan 5, 2012)

Oh, by the way wreckstar, my plants got a little yellowing on the lower leaves...whats wrong with them?


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## PbHash (Jan 6, 2012)

I never understood why some people think there has to be a god. Why can't death just be the end?
I have no problem explaining the universe without God. 
What about people who never even hear of God? Guess they will burn like the rest of us heathens.
So if I'm a "good" person all my life but don't accept Jesus as my lord and savor Amen! I'll go to he'll. All John Wayne Gacy had to do is accept Jesus and he would be in but fuck good people who just don't believe!

I guess it doesn't bother Christians that most of their religion can be traced back to earlier religions. take a few mythology classes, it will open your eyes, non of this is new.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 6, 2012)

PbHash said:


> I never understood why some people think there has to be a god. Why can't death just be the end?
> I have no problem explaining the universe without God.
> What about people who never even hear of God? Guess they will burn like the rest of us heathens.
> So if I'm a "good" person all my life but don't accept Jesus as my lord and savor Amen! I'll go to he'll. All John Wayne Gacy had to do is accept Jesus and he would be in but fuck good people who just don't believe!
> ...


Since there seems to be a shortage of theists to respond to these kinds of posts, I thought I would in typical Christian fashion..

-There 'has to be a god' because - how else would the universe have gotten here? (answered and dismissed) - there has to be more to life than simply living this one then dying. (this is a belief based on a hope that can't be proven/disproven) - how would we know what's right or wrong without God? (answered and dismissed)


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## PbHash (Jan 6, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Since there seems to be a shortage of theists to respond to these kinds of posts, I thought I would in typical Christian fashion..
> 
> -There 'has to be a god' because - how else would the universe have gotten here? (answered and dismissed) - there has to be more to life than simply living this one then dying. (this is a belief based on a hope that can't be proven/disproven) - how would we know what's right or wrong without God? (answered and dismissed)


I can't stand it when religious people say, "without God we wouldn't have moral" This couldn't be more wrong and only the simple minded would think so. Morals are simply part of our evolution. It isn't beneficial to the species to have everyone killing and raping ad they please. Still about 4% of humans have no moral conscious, guess God forgot about them. If you think that morals are given by God then he purposely has left some people without morals/guilt/conscious. So he sets some of us up for failure.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 6, 2012)

PbHash said:


> I can't stand it when religious people say, "without God we wouldn't have moral" This couldn't be more wrong and only the simple minded would think so. Morals are simply part of our evolution. It isn't beneficial to the species to have everyone killing and raping ad they please. Still about 4% of humans have no moral conscious, guess God forgot about them. If you think that morals are given by God then he purposely has left some people without morals/guilt/conscious. So he sets some of us up for failure.


What I think a Christian would say to that..

"There's no objective morality without God. Whose to say you're right or wrong? What makes your morals better than Hitlers? 

That 4% has simply decided to go against God. He gave them morals, they just decided to ignore them."


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## PbHash (Jan 6, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What I think a Christian would say to that..
> 
> "There's no objective morality without God. Whose to say you're right or wrong? What makes your morals better than Hitlers?
> 
> That 4% has simply decided to go against God. He gave them morals, they just decided to ignore them."


Yep that sounds about right. 
I imagine that hell is full of Native Americans/south Americans and pacific islanders, they never had a chance to hear the word of God. I've still never heard a Christian give me an answere to that and not hav me say, "ok you just made that up"


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## Padawanbater2 (Jan 6, 2012)

To that I most frequently get back something similar to "that's why there are missionaries" and "if they've never heard the true word of God, they still go to Heaven" (without any clear application of how or why.. also contradicting their own Bible; John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.), to that my response is usually something like... "well then why send missionaries at all, wouldn't that mean that some of them _would_ go to Hell and if they'd never gone at all all of them would have went to Heaven (according to this logic)?


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## growmo23 (Jan 10, 2012)

If there is a god I hope he uses spell check.


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## Zaehet Strife (Jan 10, 2012)

growmo23 said:


> If there is a god I hope he uses spell check.


i hope he gives us the use of spells soon, like MAGIC! if there really was a god, it would have given us the use of magic long long ago.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jan 10, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Since there seems to be a shortage of theists to respond to these kinds of posts, I thought I would in typical Christian fashion..
> 
> -There 'has to be a god' because - how else would the universe have gotten here? (answered and dismissed) - there has to be more to life than simply living this one then dying. (this is a belief based on a hope that can't be proven/disproven) - how would we know what's right or wrong without God? (answered and dismissed)


There doesn't have to be a god.. Those are just what those people believe.

How would we know what is right or wrong without god? Personal experiences and lessons learned from our elders.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jan 10, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> To that I most frequently get back something similar to "that's why there are missionaries" and "if they've never heard the true word of God, they still go to Heaven" (without any clear application of how or why.. also contradicting their own Bible; John 14:6 "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.), to that my response is usually something like... "well then why send missionaries at all, wouldn't that mean that some of them _would_ go to Hell and if they'd never gone at all all of them would have went to Heaven (according to this logic)?


Lets take a look at John 14:6.. According to Christians, Jesus died for their sins right? Well then it makes sense to Christians. By him dying for us, we get to go to heaven. We wouldnt be able to go to heaven without his sacrafices. So the passage makes sense.The passage doesn't say "you can only go to heaven if you believe and follow me".. So John 14:6 doesn't contradict anything.


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## Hepheastus420 (Jan 10, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What I think a Christian would say to that..
> 
> "There's no objective morality without God. Whose to say you're right or wrong? What makes your morals better than Hitlers?
> 
> That 4% has simply decided to go against God. He gave them morals, they just decided to ignore them."


Wrong..

I would say that without the bible, we would learn from the pains and pleasures of our past (including yesterday) and create morals. For example, imagine that you have no sense of morals. Let's say you have a kid that you grow to love. Now let's say someone comes and kills your kid.. You're now hurt by their actions.. And through this pain, you grew a moral sense that tells you not to kill other peoples children. Moral learned.


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## cannabineer (Jan 10, 2012)

Hermione Granger would never use Spell Check. cn


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## tyler.durden (Jan 11, 2012)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Wrong..
> 
> I would say that without the bible, we would learn from the pains and pleasures of our past (including yesterday) and create morals. For example, imagine that you have no sense of morals. Let's say you have a kid that you grow to love. Now let's say someone comes and kills your kid.. You're now hurt by their actions.. And through this pain, you grew a moral sense that tells you not to kill other peoples children. Moral learned.



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