# Rick Simpson Oil: Carcinogenic?



## raichiss (Nov 16, 2013)

Hey guys! So, I've read these forums for some time, but I haven't seen this addressed. I am actually worried about people attempting Rick Simpson's "Phoenix Tears" cannabis extraction, and hope this serves as something of a warning as well.

In Rick Simpson's instructions for producing his famous "Phoenix Tears" cannabis extract oil - particularly his popular YouTube video - He recommends "pure Naphtha" as the solvent of choice as well as a large polycarbonate bucket (and plastic 'Culligan' water jugs).

Perhaps he doesn't know, and if not I'm sure many who have followed his instructions are similarly ignorant, but Naphtha will quickly degrade - and leach - plastic. In fact despite the title of his video, "How to Make Rick Simpson's Medicinal Hemp Oil Safely", this is probably one of the most dangerous ways to attempt a cannabis extraction.

As someone with cancer in my immediate family, I am facinated with recent scientific research proving the efficacy of cannabinoids in treating carcinogenic tumors, but am upset that "Rick Simpson Oil" has taken the spotlight considering it has the potential to be carcinogenic itself. Has he responded to this before?


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## mrchumsworthIV (Nov 16, 2013)

I cringe everytime I watch that video.


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## raichiss (Nov 16, 2013)

Right?!

And I feel like his method/message is front-and-center in the debate about cannabinoids' efficacy in treating cancer. It feels like intentional disinformation.

I also found a study that found a huge amount of residual naphtha in the final product, and of course they didn't use plastic containers (in which case they would have uncovered a mess of other impurities): http://www.cannabis-med.org/data/pdf/en_2013_01_1.pdf 

When I searched for this again, Google brought up the official Rick Simpson Facebook page where they respond to this study: https://www.facebook.com/298774923502987/posts/520655367981607 The reaction is aggressive, and instead of admitting the dangers inherent in using industrial solvents (not to mention in conjunction with polycarbonate), they accuse the scientists of ignorance and claim that 'pure' Naphtha wouldn't generate these problems. It all seems really shady - especially when news comment sections are flooded with obviously fake profiles soliciting cannabis oil as a cancer cure and linking a shady email address.

It makes me really upset when there has been concrete evidence of cannabinoids' efficacy in fighting cancerous tumors, but "Rick Simpson" gets the spotlight.


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## Ivone (Dec 19, 2013)

Excuse me, but I was under the impression that he is using medical alcohol that will eventually evaporate, but we are planing to use C2H5OH. Any comments?


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## Cannasaurus Rex (Dec 19, 2013)

Wow, as one who this issue doesn't affect (medically), I have heard the hoopla, Seems Mr. Simpson is doing good and believes in it. As an organic farmer who's just a father and a rookie, why wouldn't they use Glass and food grade solvent if they were so intent on natures way? First I've heard of his methodry and frankly, puzzled if its true.


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## jonniefive (May 29, 2014)

raichiss said:


> Right?!
> 
> And I feel like his method/message is front-and-center in the debate about cannabinoids' efficacy in treating cancer. It feels like intentional disinformation.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link to that study! 
I also had major concerns about the use of such toxic solvents in concentrate production. I've done a bit of research and I cannot find any reason why people are using such volatile solvents other than the higher yields... which just mean in most cases are various waxes oils and chlorophyll that you don't want or need in medicine. Think about coldwater hash.. the lower temp means a less volatile solvent, still effective for stripping trichomes, but not stripping anything else.

I for one would like to see a study that uses pure butane, pure Ethanol, pure water(cold water and or ice) and CO2 and analysis of any impurities left from these processes.

Side note: the study noted using a GC to test for THC.. It is a fact that a Gas Chromatograph cannot accurately measure cannabanoid levels/


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## Ivone (May 29, 2014)

I just finished making oil using Isopropanol, but next time I will try to make Cannabis paste using *THIS* procedure.
Check it out and let's talk about it..


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## MarCus M.D (Jun 1, 2014)

Ivone said:


> I just finished making oil using Isopropanol, but next time I will try to make Cannabis paste using *THIS* procedure.
> Check it out and let's talk about it..








actually be better than oil? or safer?


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## gb123 (Jun 1, 2014)

This guy is a whack job. Weak meds. RSO doesn't work? Biggest crock of BS I ever heard. WTF is wrong with people. Steering sick people away from good meds by having them dilute it? Holy fuck man...Makes no sense at all..

My god people. .don't listen to this idiot. Look online for the truth.


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## qwizoking (Jun 2, 2014)

Yea people that are actually invested in this industry make fun of rick.. seriously..
He's a moron that infuriates most.


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## gb123 (Jun 2, 2014)

LMAO.... this guy makes fun of RS? lol Because he has a weak solution of the best natural meds, Man could ever use? The reason why he has to explain himself is because its shit work. Shit work always needs explaining, good work speaks volumes. Proof is all over the Net.
I thought Rick was a little old school but with great info. 
I've Never seen this fuckwad before lol. He definitely takes the cake and it looks like she ate it.


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## qwizoking (Jun 2, 2014)

Fowl language is the feeble minds futile attempt to express itself forcefully... wise words

No its just shit...


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## qwizoking (Jun 2, 2014)

He's changed his methods numerous times from the community lashing out. He used to use acetone then naptha. Both are incredibly dirty, but he says it doesn't matter. No reason to purge either.. after somehow still being able to get around with both feet in his mouth

He now refluxes (enclosed boil) in alcohol, either Iso or etoh. Producing a gross black sludge with most of the cannabinoids degraded into less active forms while destroying terpenes. Not only this but the oil is extremely diluted with compounds void of any medical affect

Here's my latest batch of Iso hash..
Only difference is his methods..


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## CaretakerDad (Jun 2, 2014)

I have been an oil maker now for several years and except for the cost benefit I see no reason to use either naptha or isopropyl alcohol as a solvent to make Cannabis oil. Stainless steel and everclear are the only way to ensure as little contaminant as possible remains in the final product. Cancer patients have enough problems without poisoning them with harsh chemicals that cannot be completely extracted from the medicine.


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## qwizoking (Jun 2, 2014)

Iso has different properties that many prefer over etoh, similar to people preferring an alkane extraction.

But iso and etoh are both completely clean and due to the properties evap much easier than butane which is dirty. Assuming the etoh doesn't contain any sugars and things


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## CaretakerDad (Jun 2, 2014)

qwizoking said:


> Iso has different properties that many prefer over etoh, similar to people preferring an alkane extraction.
> 
> But iso and etoh are both completely clean and due to the properties evap much easier than butane which is dirty. Assuming the etoh doesn't contain any sugars and things



Please provide a citation for your claim that isopropyl is *safe* as a solvent for internal ingestion and can be *completely* removed.


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## qwizoking (Jun 2, 2014)

Its not safe for ingestion?
We aren't making a tincture with it, we're extracting with it. Don't be blinded by ignorance, chloroform is often used to extract....
Of course it can be completely removed, its the higher weight portions in butane, (the "mystery oil") that won't purge. There is none in iso, its an efficient hydration of propene that doesn't result in anything undesirable.
Due to the properties of the solvent, the oil extracted has different properties as well. A significantly lower iodine number, resulting in a lack of that film you see with bho, making it hard to purge.

But being that its a fluid. With a lower boiling point and high vapor pressure it will evaporate


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## gb123 (Jun 2, 2014)

I'm talking about making it for medication for ingesting //not burning..
There's a huge difference.

Go figure I learned to make something as a kid that would save my life as an adult ...  Proof is in the Meds and the simple fact I'm still here. lol
Thankfully so, due to the WWW and all its glorious anecdotal info. I'm alive today.
Thanks Rick and many more who convinced me to do it.


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## gb123 (Jun 2, 2014)

All I have to say is this.
It worked for me. It has worked for many others.
Does it work for everybody? is it made correctly, taken correctly? who knows?!

I ate it for over a year. 1.5 grams a day.
I shrunk a 4 cm, stage 3, recurrent colon cancer tumor to NOTHING .......and walked out of my oncologists office a healthy person!

Instead of letting them rip my guts out, give me a bag, chemo, radiation until I died a miserable death, as millions have always done.
All at the hands of our screwed up medical system.


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## qwizoking (Jun 2, 2014)

I'm talking about making it for medication for ingesting //not burning..
There's a huge difference.


No there's not?
You want a pure product in both cases consisting of the cannabinoids, terpenes, esters etc

Yea proof is in the meds.. rso still contains a small portion of what we are after. Imagine what would happen if everyone was taking medical quality "medicine"
Anyway can only help those willing to listen..


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## gb123 (Jun 2, 2014)

Decarboxylation dude man.
Here's a little science for yas  ..

. Read up. Important stuff!

http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/


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## gb123 (Jun 2, 2014)

If you mean that it is not pure when it comes to smoking?....that would be correct.
When it comes to dying and worrying about something that maybe a little impure/trace amounts of ISO or Naphtha ? I got news for yas eh 
Truth be known, you get more shit (trace solvents)off of a public table from cleaning solutions that you would from making oil for yourself, with any solvent, no matter what it was.


This shit made right is the cats ass my friend. A god send,,,,and no...I don't believe in god lol

Now making something to burn...well...we stopped making oil as kids because we never thought we could ever get it clean enough to smoke. We burned hash 24/7 .365 but thought oil was bad for us.....hahahahahaah naïve and young ....


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## Ivone (Jun 27, 2014)

Ok guys & girls, I made my first RSO from 500 gr of Indica strain buds (Sensi Star and Chronic). I used Iso and got 65ml of beautiful gold color, high THC content oil. So that's done and it works! Now this guy paste "sounds and looks" fine, but before I jump in, I would like to hear some logical and constructive comments, focusing on the benefits of this canapaste over RSO.

PS: I would like to make pills using the paste. The RSO is VERY, VERY strong and people freaking out even when using miniscule amount.
TIA


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## Ivone (Jun 27, 2014)

Question:
To get high THC content from raw cannabis you have to do decarboxylation. If you check the chart at: http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/ it give me another idea.
Dry cannabis, then grind the hell out of it, then place it on the tray and in to oven for 27 minutes at 122c/252f.
Once done I can make paste by adding coconut oil. In this form it ca be used topically or make pills for oral use.
Would that work?


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## gb123 (Jun 27, 2014)

as pot dry's, natural decarboxylation occurs. Heating it to 250 will make sure the inactive THC and or CBD become active when ingesting.
Dosing takes some skill. You need good scales that measure to 0.001 of a gram. Dosing a patient should start at 0.05 to 0.10 of a gram. each night at bed...second week double that and so on. This way you don't fuck anybody up. No psychoactive effects at all doing it this way and slow!
You do not have to heat it for the length of time they say. It does not have to be fully decarbed. If you go passed that point/heat, you end up putting people to sleep with it's high CBN effect. THC degrades to CBN after that temp.
Hope this helps.

LOTS TO IT ALL...TONS OF READING!!!...


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## Ivone (Jun 27, 2014)

gb123 said:


> as pot dry's, natural decarboxylation occurs. Heating it to 250 will make sure the inactive THC and or CBD become active when ingesting.
> Dosing takes some skill. You need good scales that measure to 0.001 of a gram. Dosing a patient should start at 0.05 to 0.10 of a gram. each night at bed...second week double that and so on. This way you don't fuck anybody up. No psychoactive effects at all doing it this way and slow!
> You do not have to heat it for the length of time they say. It does not have to be fully decarbed. If you go passed that point/heat, you end up putting people to sleep with it's high CBN effect. THC degrades to CBN after that temp.
> Hope this helps.
> ...


Thanks gb123, so it work then - I hope you/we are right. This will eliminate great deal of hassle, ISO, time and work.
Time to decarboxylate min 20 - max 27minutes at 250F - NO problem
I do have great scale already - I will start them at 0.05 in green color capsule (1st week), then next week orange capsule will have 0.10, then maybe I can make red capsule with 0.15 (in case need it)

Any comments?


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## qwizoking (Jun 27, 2014)

Comments?
Too many to type


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## qwizoking (Jun 27, 2014)

Let's start with the innacurate graph off skunk pharm... yes even gray wolf(fadedawg on this website, will tell you as well) at higher temps loss is accounted for with volatizaion of the active compounds. The graph came from an overseas Russian "study" not in englo....they proceed to explain the drop

As temps increase more CBN is formed relative to THC from thca..

jarring your bud for roughly 4-5 months at room temp (26°c or so) without light is the most efficient way to decarb, you also retain important terpenes...or the double boil watching it


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## qwizoking (Jun 27, 2014)

If you want to do it properly....
Extract the cannabinoids with your preffered method. Mine is qwiso..
Decarb the resulting hash oil over a double boil allowing you to visually tell when its done by the bubbling action of the carboxyl group leaving.. its done when it stops bubbling..

You then saturate hot coconut oil with the hash. Only for oral use. Topically a light uunsaturated fatty acid like oleic is what you want. Unrefined sunflower is best, 5-10% etoh or pg will enhance permeation
..I prefer making pills, much easier and more precise

Because the amount of hash oil the coconut oil will hold is fairly constant its easy to dose and figure mg doses.
Most people want about 2-300 mg for good affect
If its supersaturated absorption is significantly longer and more erratic. Much less efficient..you can fit a single dose in one pill
Roughly 20mg per ml will dissolve nicely, adding more may be necessary. Many of my "patients"/ customers find taking 0 pills nauseating so I switched
to 00 .. 0 holds 1 ml


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## qwizoking (Jun 27, 2014)

Also don't start slow enough that effects aren't felt. When you get high, that's because receptors are being flooded. Receptor activation also happens to provide the medicinal benefit. And when i say receptor activation I'm really simplifying both direct and indirect modes of action

That's all for now.. I could keep going if you wish


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## gb123 (Jun 27, 2014)

and why I said there's a TON of reading to do before he starts. Theres a good dosages chart around as well
Qwizoking has the right idea for sure.


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## Ivone (Jun 28, 2014)

Let's go over this again.

RSO is fine and I know how to make it, using ISO - no problem. I just like to explorer another alternatives as well.

Would dry cannabis placed in the oven for 27 minutes at 122C decarboxylate properly? If the info is wrong, then what's the correct degree and time?

What do you see exactly wrong making Canapaste like newcure?


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## gb123 (Jul 4, 2014)

you can decarb you meds in the oven 100%  YES!
If it is heated and completely dry!. It is decrabed from what I understand. They only say the heating speeds up the process but it does happen naturally. When it is 100% dry. It is supposedly decrabed. Im not a scientist.
As Qwizo said. Make it a quick wash. Then decarb it. Makes good meds.

I used naphtha myself. lol Don't freak out. now 
The way I see it. Any traces left in the medication, would be less than what I would get off of public restaurant tables, from cleaners they use to clean everything. Naphtha being a key chemical used. 
My meds never had an odor to it other than oil resin.
Anyway... that was then. It did work after all. 
ISO is cleaner only due to the simple fact that Naphtha can be processed differently and be denatured.


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## GDMMCC (Jul 7, 2014)

Hey folks. My name Is Mike & I'm new to all of this. I recently started looking into resin as a treatment for cancer. From what I've read I see the use of it as the only hope my little sister has. Little being relative of course, we're 41 & 40 respectively. She was recently diagnosed with pancreatic cancer...we all know that normally this is a terminal cancer and doesn't leave an individual with much time to do, well, anything. I don't believe I have the time required to grow & produce the resin necessary to treat her. She's always been my rock, my hero. If it's at all possible I would like to be that for her, just one time. The most important time. If there is anyone reading this that lives in or knows of any one living in Nova Scotia that is capable of producing the resin or has it on hand please, PLEASE, get in touch with me. Much appreciated and thank you for the volumes of information contained in these forums. You all may have just saved another life the Government, Medical establishment and pharmaceutical companies couldn't care less about.


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## Ivone (Jul 7, 2014)

Sorry to hear that man. Google Rick Simpson he is from Nova Scotia. I am sure you will be able to make some contact. Good luck.


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## Dyna Ryda (Aug 29, 2014)

I have a question about RSO and infused olive oil. I was gonna start new thread but this one seems like a good place to start. I currently make extra virgin olive oil (EVO) infused oil and make cookies and brownies with that. Is that equivalent to RSO in regards to medical benefits. The reason I'm asking is because my grandmother was just diagnosed with throat cancer and I want to help her.


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## Bugeye (Sep 18, 2014)

I made some a couple years back with Naptha per the video. I could never get rid of the chemical taste so we use it only for topical applications. My wife was able to remove a basil cell carcinoma (cancer of the most benign variety) from her arm with daily applications. About 10 days in it started to scab up and then came off in the shower leaving no trace behind. Her dermatologist confirmed the carcinoma and was going to remove it on next visit. He was amazed. I keep it in the fridge now in case anyone gets a melanoma. I'd be going to the dermatologist as well though.


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## freddyc (Sep 24, 2014)

That's why I use stainless steel....If I could find affordable lab grade glass containers to hold the quantity of the 'raw substances' Id use it.


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