# Stablizing soil with lime, best way



## Punk (Feb 24, 2010)

I briefly recall that if you're using lime to prevent soil from becoming too acidic, you should also add another element to the soil to stabliize the mix. 

Anyone know what I'm talking about?


----------



## slomoking13 (Feb 24, 2010)

are you referring to dolomite lime? if so, i believe it is a buffer and with either alkalinic or acidic soil it will buffer to around 7.0 or neutral


----------



## KingInDaCloset (Feb 24, 2010)

Punk said:


> I briefly recall that if you're using lime to prevent soil from becoming too acidic, you should also add another element to the soil to stabliize the mix.
> 
> Anyone know what I'm talking about?


You'll want to add Gypsum with it in about equal amounts for the area you're treating. It too raises the pH a bit and in concert w/Dolomite lime can soften the soil a tad by binding microscopic particles into larger ones, and as the theory goes, increase drainage and air content near the roots.


----------



## Punk (Feb 24, 2010)

slomoking13 said:


> are you referring to dolomite lime? if so, i believe it is a buffer and with either alkalinic or acidic soil it will buffer to around 7.0 or neutral


There was a micronutrient lockout (not sure which one) that was prone to happen using JUST lime to even out acidity, so another soil additive is used and I can't figure out what folks were using to counter the lockout cause by the lime. (not a ph lockout), but I remember reading it and was getting ready to prep some dirt for next grow.


----------



## slomoking13 (Feb 25, 2010)

was it sulfur? the only other thing i have added was epsom salts. some people add either epsom or gypsum salts to their mix. but both epsom and gypsum salts contain calcium and sulfer, and i believe they are both a ph between 5.5-6.5. That's the only thing i can think of.... just comes to mind because dolomite lime is calcium and magnesium while calcium, magnesium, and sulfur are all considered the main 3 secondary nutrients after npk.


----------



## Punk (Feb 27, 2010)

slomoking13 said:


> was it sulfur? the only other thing i have added was epsom salts. some people add either epsom or gypsum salts to their mix. but both epsom and gypsum salts contain calcium and sulfer, and i believe they are both a ph between 5.5-6.5. That's the only thing i can think of.... just comes to mind because dolomite lime is calcium and magnesium while calcium, magnesium, and sulfur are all considered the main 3 secondary nutrients after npk.


 
Well, I am going to do a foliar feeding of epson salts on one plant as a control, just to see what impact that has.


----------



## DaveCoulier (Feb 27, 2010)

slomoking13 said:


> are you referring to dolomite lime? if so, i believe it is a buffer and with either alkalinic or acidic soil it will buffer to around 7.0 or neutral


Dolomite, or dolomitic lime will not reduce PH. Any type of lime always raises PH. It never lowers it, and yes you can over-do dolomite/dolomitic lime contary to popular belief.



Punk said:


> I briefly recall that if you're using lime to prevent soil from becoming too acidic, you should also add another element to the soil to stabliize the mix.
> 
> Anyone know what I'm talking about?


Someone told you wrong. I dont know what this "stabilization" you are referring to, but you dont have to add another ingredient because you used dolomitic lime to raise the ph.



KingInDaCloset said:


> You'll want to add Gypsum with it in about equal amounts for the area you're treating. It too raises the pH a bit and in concert w/Dolomite lime can soften the soil a tad by binding microscopic particles into larger ones, and as the theory goes, increase drainage and air content near the roots.


Gypsum has a negligible affect on ph. Its thought it lowers ph, but it barely does.

http://www.agvise.com/tech_art/highsoilph.php


----------



## AquafinaOrbit (Feb 28, 2010)

Not sure about lime, but dolomite lime is safe to use by itself from what I've always read (And done). Never have any lockout problems, but it does buffer around 7.0 so you want to add something that is also slightly acidic to bring the overall PH down a notch.


----------



## Punk (Mar 3, 2010)

I'm talking about ground limestone. It says right on the bag, "reduces soil acidity".


----------



## buggin69 (Mar 4, 2010)

Punk said:


> I'm talking about ground limestone. It says right on the bag, "reduces soil acidity".



lower acidity equals higher PH


----------



## kingofqueen (Dec 23, 2010)

The *ONLY* good info here came from Dave . Everything else is a load of bull .You got dolomite lime and sweet lime. Dolomite is what you want to use . Ground not pelletized . IT "stabilizes " your ph level. Nothing is needed to counteract it . Now if you had a high ph soil you would add garden "sulfer" to buffer it down .


----------



## farmboss (Dec 31, 2010)

kingofqueen said:


> The *ONLY* good info here came from Dave . Everything else is a load of bull .You got dolomite lime and sweet lime. Dolomite is what you want to use . Ground not pelletized . IT "stabilizes " your ph level. Nothing is needed to counteract it . Now if you had a high ph soil you would add garden "sulfer" to buffer it down .


whats wrong with pellitized ?


----------



## DaveCoulier (Dec 31, 2010)

The finer the lime the faster it will react in the soil. The pellitized, or prilled lime is used in field conditions not for container gardening.


----------



## farmboss (Jan 1, 2011)

DaveCoulier said:


> The finer the lime the faster it will react in the soil. The pellitized, or prilled lime is used in field conditions not for container gardening.


i use pellitized in container.

maybe my thinking is long term effect.

no worth to something that only buffers one-time.


----------



## YarndiYarns (Jan 1, 2011)

buggin69 said:


> lower acidity equals higher PH


You sure? Lemon Juice is low Ph, you think it is alkaline or acidic? I disagree with your statement here. I'm of the opinion that a low Ph is indicative of an acidic medium. See this quote which I pulled from a University web site:

Pure (neutral) water has a pH around 7 at 25 °C (77 °F); this value varies with temperature. When an acid is dissolved in water the pH will be less than 7 (if at 25 °C (77 °F)) and when a base, or alkali is dissolved in water the pH will be greater than 7 (if at 25 °C (77 °F)). A solution of a strong acid, such as hydrochloric acid, at concentration 1 mol dm&#8722;3 has a pH of 0. A solution of a strong alkali, such as sodium hydroxide, at concentration 1 mol dm&#8722;3 has a pH of 14.


----------



## Micromaster (Jan 2, 2011)

YarndiYarns said:


> You sure? Lemon Juice is low Ph, you think it is alkaline or acidic? I disagree with your statement here. I'm of the opinion that a low Ph is indicative of an acidic medium. See this quote which I pulled from a University web site:
> 
> Pure (neutral) water has a pH around 7 at 25 °C (77 °F); this value varies with temperature. When an acid is dissolved in water the pH will be less than 7 (if at 25 °C (77 °F)) and when a base, or alkali is dissolved in water the pH will be greater than 7 (if at 25 °C (77 °F)). A solution of a strong acid, such as hydrochloric acid, at concentration 1 mol dm&#8722;3 has a pH of 0. A solution of a strong alkali, such as sodium hydroxide, at concentration 1 mol dm&#8722;3 has a pH of 14.


 hes saying a reduced acidity means a higher ph. 

Do people not know what a ph table looks like?


----------



## YarndiYarns (Jan 2, 2011)

Micromaster said:


> hes saying a reduced acidity means a higher ph.
> 
> Do people not know what a ph table looks like?


My Bad, clouded thinking.


----------



## Wetdog (Jan 2, 2011)

farmboss said:


> i use pellitized in container.
> 
> maybe my thinking is long term effect.
> 
> no worth to something that only buffers one-time.


So do I, mainly for the recycle. I still use powdered in the mix since the pellets take 2+ months to start to breakdown and about the time the powdered runs out.

Wet


----------



## gobbly (Jan 2, 2011)

if you use lime you want dolomite lime. Lime (with co2) will raise your PH to a point, but is technically used as a buffer, meaning it will tend to help stabilize your ph at a point. Don't use other forms of lime for gardening.


----------



## Hudsonvalley82 (Jan 2, 2011)

I work for a company that produces pellet, pulverized, granular, and gypsum. 

Pelletized lime is just pulverized lime binded together with tree sap extracts. It is that way so you can put it in a fertilizer spreader to distribute across your lawn. It needs water to break down and is far less concentrated than pulverized. 

Granular takes anywhere from 4 to 5 months to have an effect on that soil. It is usually put down in fall around the midwest/NE US to neutralize the soils from the spring rains/thaw.

Gypsum is a calcium rich additive that is designed not to effect your soils pH drastically in either direction. It is used for aeration of clay rich soils as well as reducing the nitrate concentration in certain areas (patches of dog piss that has burned the grass)

Pulverized limestone is not to be mistaken with hydrated lime, which used to be popular until idiot customers started to get chemical burns. Hydrated lime of the past is only used in masonry applications for making mortar mixes have more of a buttery texture. If you really want that, it is in the concrete sections of big box hardware stores. 

Pulverized limestone comes in two varieties: Calcitic and Dolomitic. 

Calcitic is calcium rich and contains trace amount of magnesium.

Dolomitic is Magnesium rich and contains around 25-33% Calcium. 
Both will acts as buffers in the right environments, however adding neutralizing ingredients will run the risk of a salt build up. It is best just to add the right amount of Dolo limestone in the first place. 
Figuring out the correct amount is difficult due to the wide variations between set ups. I just add a touch below what the bag specifies and if I run into problems I can add more as a dressing and allow water to draw it in the soil.


----------



## farmboss (Jan 2, 2011)

Hudsonvalley82 said:


> I work for a company that produces pellet, pulverized, granular, and gypsum.
> 
> Pelletized lime is just pulverized lime binded together with tree sap extracts. It is that way so you can put it in a fertilizer spreader to distribute across your lawn. It needs water to break down and is far less concentrated than pulverized.
> 
> ...


sooo i shouldn't have any issues using pelletized then ?


----------



## Total Head (Jan 3, 2011)

Hudsonvalley82 said:


> I work for a company that produces pellet, pulverized, granular, and gypsum.
> 
> Pelletized lime is just pulverized lime binded together with tree sap extracts. It is that way so you can put it in a fertilizer spreader to distribute across your lawn. It needs water to break down and is far less concentrated than pulverized.
> 
> ...


that is such a useful contibution. + rep to you. i can't get dolomite here in less than a 50 lb sack so i settled on liquid lime derived frome dolomitic limestone. i don't know if it's as great as dry lime but it's doing the trick and worked within days. i'm 3 weeks into flower and they don't mind a bit.


----------



## Hudsonvalley82 (Jan 3, 2011)

A 50 lb bag is like $2.98 by me, worth it, lasts for a ton of grows.


----------



## Hudsonvalley82 (Jan 3, 2011)

Well, its kinda difficult to judge quantities with that product, it is measured as square footage or spreading, not for tilling (which is what we are doing). I imagine it would work, you just would have to use a lot more. With that sap binder you may run into an issue. But who knows? it may even better for the plants...

I would buy a bag of pulverized next however. 3 bucks, well worth it...




farmboss said:


> sooo i shouldn't have any issues using pelletized then ?


----------

