# PPM, PH, FLUCTUATE what mean?!



## gvega187 (Mar 14, 2009)

I forgot these things and can not find the FAQ on it now. 

Can someone fill me on on what it means? when

1)my ppm drops, raises, stays the same.



2) my ph drops, drops incredibly quick, or begins a rising trend? 

ty


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## JediSmoker (Mar 14, 2009)

gvega187 said:


> I forgot these things and can not find the FAQ on it now.
> 
> Can someone fill me on on what it means? when
> 
> ...


Drops - Plant is using more nutes than water
Raises - Using more water than nutes
Same - Equal water and nutes

Remember, ppm can "stay the same" but the plan is only using the nutes it needs, thus creating an "unbalanced" ppm


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## gvega187 (Mar 14, 2009)

JediSmoker said:


> Drops - Plant is using more nutes than water
> Raises - Using more water than nutes
> Same - Equal water and nutes
> 
> Remember, ppm can "stay the same" but the plan is only using the nutes it needs, thus creating an "unbalanced" ppm


I dont understand why you would not want the plants to be using an equal amount of water to nutes. 

Could you please clarify for me how I can use these indicators to adjust my ppm and or add back fresh water. ? I believe I am confused on these matters. 

thanks for reply


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## Ramon66 (Mar 14, 2009)

here is what I have found with my system. I have a 35g tub using a drip system of sorts. I run a 1/2" line along the table and have 1 1/8" line going to each plant. water drains back to res from table.
as for PPM. my PPM increases due to evaporation. every time the system feeds, the PPM goes up a little bit. when the PPMs get to my max I add water. as for PH rise. this is also normal. I was adjusting PH 2x per day to maintain 5.2-5.8 PH. I was told to let it rise to 6.5 before adjusting down to 5.2. the reason explained, was that the minor nutes are beter absorbed at 5.0-5.5, but the most important nutes like N,P and Mag were absorbed better at 6.5-7. so I am trying this to see how it goes. it maens I only have to adjust eod. I tend to keep mu PPM about 200PPM lower than desired, this allows for the increase durring the day with no need for adding water till nutes get to max level. hope this helps. just what I have observed. just a note in a flood and drain system I have used, while PH goes up, there is vey little evaporation so PPMs actualy drop due to use by plants.


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## ste147 (Mar 14, 2009)

so you just add more water to lower PPM? what exactly is PPM and do u need a PPM tester?


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## Ramon66 (Mar 14, 2009)

YES adding water lowers PPM. PPM is parts per million of nutrients in water. and yes a PPM and PH meter are very important.


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## JediSmoker (Mar 14, 2009)

gvega187 said:


> I dont understand why you would not want the plants to be using an equal amount of water to nutes.
> 
> Could you please clarify for me how I can use these indicators to adjust my ppm and or add back fresh water. ? I believe I am confused on these matters.
> 
> thanks for reply


 
Lets say you have a 10 gallon tank. You then add nutes to make it 500PPM. After a week the PPM is 450 and there are only 8 gallons of water left. That means my plant has used about the same amount of water as nutes.

At this point your PPM is 450, but if you plant is in vegitation it has sucked alot of the nitrogen out of the nutes, therefore that 450 PPM is lacking in nitrogen, so adding nutes back into this 10 gallon tank is going to raise your PPM however still not have the nitrogen the plant needs. That is the reason for flushing every 2 weeks. Hope that helps explain that some.

If the plant is "thirsty" it will drink more water, and thus your PPM will RAISE. If your plant is not "thirsty" and is "hungry" it will use more nutes than water, thus lowering your PPM. It's almost impossible to tell you exactly what to do due to strains, envoirment, evaporation, etc ... you will just have to play with it to get it right. At times plants will use more nutes than water, and vice versa. All you can do is monitor your PPM and make sure to adjust as needed.

A good starting point for vegging plants is to keep PH from 5.7-6.1 and PPM from 400-800.


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## bh1166 (Mar 14, 2009)

gvega187 said:


> I forgot these things and can not find the FAQ on it now.
> 
> Can someone fill me on on what it means? when
> 
> ...


PPM goes up, Ph goes down=plants require less nutes.
PPM goes down, Ph goes up=Plants require more nutes
PPM stable, Ph goes up=Equilibrium=Good thing.


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## ste147 (Mar 14, 2009)

JediSmoker said:


> That is the reason for flushing every 2 weeks. Hope that helps explain that some.


so flushing means to completley empty your resovoir and replace with fresh water and neuts again???

does this apply to every hydro/aeroponic system????


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## gvega187 (Mar 14, 2009)

bh1166 said:


> PPM goes up, Ph goes down=plants require less nutes.
> PPM goes down, Ph goes up=Plants require more nutes
> PPM stable, Ph goes up=Equilibrium=Good thing.


thats what i was looking for chief. Thanks


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## JediSmoker (Mar 14, 2009)

ste147 said:


> so flushing means to completley empty your resovoir and replace with fresh water and neuts again???
> 
> does this apply to every hydro/aeroponic system????


 
Yes and yes, at least that is what I do. I flush them every 2 (sometimes 2 1/2 cause I am lazy) weeks.


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## gvega187 (Mar 15, 2009)

yeah jedi im with you on that bud. ESpecially when using organic nutes with tons of expensive hyrogzyme etc...I cant even afford to do that 2.5 week flush hahhaa. peace


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## NewGrowth (Mar 15, 2009)

Here is simplified version:
1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise. 
2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
3. Water level drops PPM drops: Raise your nutrient strength in relationship too PPM drop.


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## gvega187 (Mar 15, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Here is simplified version:
> 1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise.
> 2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
> 3. Water level drops PPM drops: Raise your nutrient strength in relationship too PPM drop.


Ty for the response new G...it has been a lil while. Im going to start dropping in on your thread for small questions from now on. 

A good summary of the concepts reviewed in this thread.


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## Wohjew (Mar 15, 2009)

my levles are dropping and ppm is going up , but i only started at 175 ppm . so what i add less nutes next tim e?


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## JediSmoker (Mar 15, 2009)

Wohjew said:


> my levles are dropping and ppm is going up , but i only started at 175 ppm . so what i add less nutes next tim e?


It would seem you are losing water faster than your plants are using the nutes. Your PPM is currently very low (to my standards) and if you add water it will lower your PPM evem more.

If your plants look healthy, I would just leave it alone and contiue to monitor it. In vegging stage I keep PH from 5.7-6.1 and PPM 400-600. I do whatever is nessassary to keep these readings on my meter. How often I need to make changes depends on how many plants I am growing and how fast they are growing.


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## Wohjew (Mar 15, 2009)

ok thanks im adding hygrozyme and upping nutes 400ppm. im in day 3 of flower , and new to ebb and flow


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## Zwowzers (Mar 15, 2009)

JediSmoker said:


> Drops - Plant is using more nutes than water
> Raises - Using more water than nutes
> Same - Equal water and nutes
> 
> Remember, ppm can "stay the same" but the plan is only using the nutes it needs, thus creating an "unbalanced" ppm


I think this information is false. I cut my nutrients to 1.3 (Plants are 4-6 inches tall) and my PH stabalized. It was going from 5.7 to 8.3 everyday before I cut the nutrients


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## JediSmoker (Mar 15, 2009)

Zwowzers said:


> I think this information is false. I cut my nutrients to 1.3 (Plants are 4-6 inches tall) and my PH stabalized. It was going from 5.7 to 8.3 everyday before I cut the nutrients


False? this statement has nothing to do with PH.

It's simply water/nute ratio. If you add water PPM will go down. If you take water out (usage, evaporate, etc) faster than the nutes get used PPM will go up. If the water loss = nute usage, PPM will stay the same. Its pretty simply really.


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## gvega187 (Mar 16, 2009)

lol the info is not false. Thats like saying that having to use nutrients is a myth or something...Its just part of hydro. Re-read the suggestions and try attacking your res again. Quite a ph swing you have there. Jedi, any ideas why his ph is whippin so hard? 

I have had root problems swing ph #'s way down for a week or so.


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## JediSmoker (Mar 16, 2009)

gvega187 said:


> lol the info is not false. Thats like saying that having to use nutrients is a myth or something...Its just part of hydro. Re-read the suggestions and try attacking your res again. Quite a ph swing you have there. Jedi, any ideas why his ph is whippin so hard?
> 
> I have had root problems swing ph #'s way down for a week or so.


 
I only have a few grows under my belt, so I am not the most experienced person on wild PH swings simply because I have never experienced it. My PH will slowly rise in my tanks, and it usally requires 1-3 adjustments over a 2-3 week period. My cloning resivour (water only) never requires adjustment.

Wild PH swings means something is definately wrong. Perhaps he has a big piece of root stuck in his pump or piping just rotting away. If I ever experienced the situation Zwowzers had, I would flush my tank, clean and inspect everything, fill it with fresh tap water and cycle some H202 through it for a few days to clean the entire system and start over. 

I do know that adjusting your PPM either with water or nutes will also effect your PH, but not wildly. It will require you to re-adjusted your PH.


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## fishenfool06 (Mar 17, 2009)

JediSmoker said:


> I only have a few grows under my belt, so I am not the most experienced person on wild PH swings simply because I have never experienced it. My PH will slowly rise in my tanks, and it usally requires 1-3 adjustments over a 2-3 week period. My cloning resivour (water only) never requires adjustment.
> 
> Wild PH swings means something is definately wrong. Perhaps he has a big piece of root stuck in his pump or piping just rotting away. If I ever experienced the situation Zwowzers had, I would flush my tank, clean and inspect everything, fill it with fresh tap water and cycle some H202 through it for a few days to clean the entire system and start over.
> 
> I do know that adjusting your PPM either with water or nutes will also effect your PH, but not wildly. It will require you to re-adjusted your PH.


 
im using a DWC system and i have found that when my ph starts fluctuating wildly i usualy have some slime in or on the roots, most people will use h2o2 i know i did. i had a friend rec higrozine in with my regular feeding to take care of the slime, so i did after the third week of treetment all slime was gone, roots were nice and white with lots of new roots. and ph @6.2 no more fluctuation u can even flush with it. it is not a nute there are microbs that digest your old root mater.


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## gvega187 (Mar 18, 2009)

haha yeah hygrozyme is the good stuff....only wish they didnt have a monopoly on the organic cleansers dept. 

Anyone know if you can run sm-90 and hyrgozyme in combo? 

wicked root rot will DROP your ph VERY fast. I have never noticed an increase due to root failure.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 18, 2009)

What's Sm-90? Hygrozyme is definitely a good alternative to H202 but I'm preaching to the choir here.


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## fishenfool06 (Mar 18, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> What's Sm-90? Hygrozyme is definitely a good alternative to H202 but I'm preaching to the choir here.


i have used sm-90 and h2o2 never again . neem oil mixed with safer sope insted of sm-90 and hygrozime insted of h2o2 . i use it threw my entire grow.


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## Xan2 (Mar 19, 2009)

The best thing to avoid big fluctuation every day is to have 10 gal of water per plant. I have to balance my ph sometimes twice a day in my systems because i only have about 2 gal of water per plant... It is normal to see fluctuation as plants take water and water also evaporate... Nutrients are expensive so i keep my water at 68-70F to avoid the water to evaporate quickly.


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## gvega187 (Mar 19, 2009)

fishen would you like to expand on your bad experiences with these popular products?


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## mcdito305 (Mar 19, 2009)

help help plzzzz


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## NewGrowth (Mar 19, 2009)

gvega187 said:


> fishen would you like to expand on your bad experiences with these popular products?


I agree, I've used them for years without a problem. What made the switch for you?


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## fishenfool06 (Mar 19, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> I agree, I've used them for years without a problem. What made the switch for you?


I am fairly new at this but we learn as we go. i have a bloom box system and only have a 10 gall res for 9 plants. so my first experience with trouble was ph lock , nuit burn , powdery mold & pithiea. i think thats how it is spelled. my roots got so slimy thay turned red and stank. after speaking to lots of different people the magority say h2o2 is the way to go, so i did it made my roots nice and white for a week then the slime came back even worse. so i had a early harvest and salvaged what i could. next time around i had raised babys from seed bc god bud. veged grate no problems went into flower and all hell broke loose . started with h2o2 and started calling every one i could my local hydro store rec sm90 for treating pithiea i did a lite fowler spray allowed them to dry out from under the lights, then put them backinto the box and let them be. when i came home the next week thay were all yellow and sad. needles to say again i had an early harvest. 
this problem recurred every time i almost gave up.until talking with my local hydro dealer he rec higrozime with reg feeding , i used that on my last grow threw the hole flowering stage, i flowered for 10 weeks and harvested the best bud i ever had i my life. i was hoping to see more amber tricoms , but im glad i didn't buds left u with a bad case of couch lock. i have a batch of purple kush growing Saturday it will be 28 days into flower im looking forwards to seeing them, im expecting good things. at 21 days thay were already fat with lots of trics and white crystals allover the buds. by the way my system is fully self contained i adjust it every 7 days.i will send som pixes an Saturday.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 19, 2009)

What concentration of h202 were you running?


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## fishenfool06 (Mar 19, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> What concentration of h202 were you running?


 10mill per gallon


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## NewGrowth (Mar 19, 2009)

fishenfool06 said:


> 10mill per gallon


What percentage?


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## gvega187 (Mar 20, 2009)

so tired of ppl saying friggin couch lock lol. Its called being high and it doesn't vary THAT much from diff genetics. 

New growth i think his measurement is off either way. 

I will assume you have the 35% since you do in fact GO to hydro stores like some ppl on here can not or will not. 

Try a 3-5 ml/gal dosage and add back every 3 days. The most I have EVER heard of using is 7ml/gal. You likely burned your roots off and then they rotted. I have heard different rules on the add back. Any thoughts growth? 

Also with the peroxide dont add it into your resevoir in pure form. Also allow 20 minutes in this unconcentrated form before adding to your res. That stuff is on the bottle.


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## bdomina (Mar 20, 2009)

i have heard you can freeze a regular 3% peroxide solution to get the concentrated chem. & then add water to get the heavier solution. can anyone else elaborate on regular h202 feeding to prevent any rootbound disease.


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## fishenfool06 (Mar 20, 2009)

bdomina said:


> i have heard you can freeze a regular 3% peroxide solution to get the concentrated chem. & then add water to get the heavier solution. can anyone else elaborate on regular h202 feeding to prevent any rootbound disease.


i am using 35 % and i dont add it into my res tub, i mix in my mixing tub then add it into my res. and maybe you dident catch the part were i said im only around the plants on the weekend, so i cant add back every 3 days. it runs itself 5 days at a time.i may be new but im not stupid. h2o2 cleans and sterlizes kills all living organizams, your plants roots need matnance like inzims that help the plants digest old root mater.


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## NewGrowth (Mar 20, 2009)

fishenfool06 said:


> i am using 35 % and i dont add it into my res tub, i mix in my mixing tub then add it into my res. and maybe you dident catch the part were i said im only around the plants on the weekend, so i cant add back every 3 days. it runs itself 5 days at a time.i may be new but im not stupid. h2o2 cleans and sterlizes kills all living organizams, your plants roots need matnance like inzims that help the plants digest old root mater.


You have a point but too high a concentration of H202 will destroy young root matter and will provide more organic matter for baddies to feed off of. 35% should be run @ 1.7ml/L. Your concentration was 10ml/gal or 2.5ml/L a little higher than I run but not too bad.

In cases of severe root rot I like to run h202 for a week or so then stop and run hygrozyme to clear out any organic matter.

None of this should be needed if you consistently clean your reservoir, add h202 and maintain lower res temps.

No need to get defensive we all have our own styles and I for one appreciate your input.  &


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## HomeGrownHairy (Mar 20, 2009)

Wohjew said:


> ok thanks im adding hygrozyme and upping nutes 400ppm. im in day 3 of flower , and new to ebb and flow


You aren't using enough nutes. Young, established seedlings or rooted cuttings are started at 500-600ppm. The ppm is increased to 800-900ppm during peak vegetative growth. During the transition from early to heavy flowering, ppm is further raised to 1000ppm-1400ppm. It is then reduced to 400-500ppm during the final 2 weeks of flowering. 
Hope this helps!


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## fishenfool06 (Mar 22, 2009)

HomeGrownHairy said:


> You aren't using enough nutes. Young, established seedlings or rooted cuttings are started at 500-600ppm. The ppm is increased to 800-900ppm during peak vegetative growth. During the transition from early to heavy flowering, ppm is further raised to 1000ppm-1400ppm. It is then reduced to 400-500ppm during the final 2 weeks of flowering.
> Hope this helps!


 
sorry for being a little edgy, i have had a lot of trouble and i have worked my way threw them. every body has different methods for there growi think i have found one that works for me. i have changed my res tub lastnight and i have no ich in the roots nice and white lots of groth in the tub. here are sum pix so u can see what i mean. 28 days , ithink they are looking pretty good . this is a 10 week strain i have about 6 weeks left. the plants look healthy to me what do u think . they are doing better this time, than they have in the past.


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## Aye1frmDay1ny (Apr 17, 2020)

NewGrowth said:


> Here is simplified version:
> 1.Water level drops PPM goes up: Drop your nutrient strength in relationship to the PPM rise.
> 2. Water level drops PPM stays the same: You may be able to fine tune you nutrient strength, if growth is vigorous leave it alone.
> 3. Water level drops PPM drops: Raise your nutrient strength in relationship too PPM drop.


So what would be my ideal ppm in an aerogarden ? I was running 800-1000 at a 5.4 ph and they all died I'm going back to California soon and want to try a again


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## Nizza (Apr 17, 2020)

Aye1frmDay1ny said:


> So what would be my ideal ppm in an aerogarden ? I was running 800-1000 at a 5.4 ph and they all died I'm going back to California soon and want to try a again


If the plants aren't established, you can run a much lower PPM, like 500 or so, depending how much of that PPM is from your tap, then judge from there how hungry they are by using above said methods of measuring PPM. One thing i found is 5.4 pH is too low; I go at 6 because I realized in hydro the pH drops down throughout the day, so if you water with 5.8-6.0 ppM water and find the pH dropping to 5.5 before next watering you are in a great zone. PPM can be upped as the plant gets better. I run 1000 ppm for full sized plants and it is almost too much but just about perfect with gh trio

if the aero garden is non recirculating (drain to waste) you can probably go higher ppM than a recirculating system. aero systems are typically drain to waste


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