# Gonna try out & Use a 600W HPS for whole Grow!!!!



## MaKaVeL1 (Nov 12, 2012)

I ordered a 600W HPS kit and they sent me 2 600W HPS bulbs instead of 1 bulb so gonna see what going to happen to my crop of 5 plants.
My plan is to: Seedlings for 2 weeks under LED lights
then 4 weeks Vegging Under the 600W HPS for 20 hours on, 4 hours Off
and lastly 8-9 weeks flowering with 600W HPS 12 hours on, 12 hours off.
Hydro Grow of course, I'm growing in CoCo peat
using DutchMaster Gold Range One Grow & Bloom Nutrients
and DutchMaster Liquid Light & Saturator Foliar Spray as well.

Anythoughts on how the plants will react to having only one spectrum range of light, but a powerful source of light the whole grow???

Anyone tried this out before???


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## unknown1231 (Nov 12, 2012)

that will work BUT you shouldn't veg under the HPS. The HPS is giving red spectrum to the plants, this is good for flower but not for veg. If you have a digital ballast you can order a Metal Halide conversion bulb to use during veg. The Metal Halide gives blue spectrum. You might be able to get away with vegging using only the LED's. I have a friend who veg's with only T5 flouro's for 4-6 weeks then flowers with HPS. works great.


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## unknown1231 (Nov 12, 2012)

did you buy a fan too? You'll need a fan :X


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## THC&STDs4All (Nov 12, 2012)

can be done. im doing it right now cause i dont have a conversion bulb atm. 2 weeks under led and week 4 of 600w hps. seems to go fine.


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## tip top toker (Nov 12, 2012)

Plants will grow just fine from start to finish with just an HPS.


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## cannawizard (Nov 13, 2012)

*people have had good results by just using HPS for the entire duration of their grows


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## Indica61 (Nov 13, 2012)

I use nothing but 300w and higher LED for everything,however the question is how many plants are you doing 8 band LED'S are so cheap now mh and hs light are now the dark ages,again number of plants?


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## Trousers (Nov 13, 2012)

I don't use my 400 watt mh, it gets hot and i am tired of swapping out reflectors etc. I use HPS all the way. 

I actually would like to see my plants stretch a bit, they are little bushes.


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## legallyflying (Nov 13, 2012)

you can do almost anything and it can work. But why would you want to? IT is WELL known that plants veg better under MH. IF you can't tell the difference, then your not looking hard enough. More branching, more compact, and just better overall health (not those pale looking leaves). 

HPS is the dark ages? LMAO. Yeah, the dark ages of cranking out pounds of high quality product. you rock your 300 watt LED and I'll rock my 12,600 watts of HPS.


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## zestay (Nov 13, 2012)

might want to supplement with a 23w CFL in the "daylight" color.


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## beenthere (Nov 13, 2012)

Indica61 said:


> I use nothing but 300w and higher LED for everything,however the question is how many plants are you doing 8 band LED'S are so cheap now mh and hs light are now the dark ages,again number of plants?


That statement couldn't be farther from the truth, at least where i come from.
I've been a well establish grower and provider in the CA. Bay Area for quite some time and have visited many grow rooms in my day, I've yet to see a decent size grow house using anything other than hps from start to finish or T5's and MH for veg.


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## Grandpapy (Nov 13, 2012)

MaKaVeL1 said:


> I ordered a 600W HPS kit and they sent me 2 600W HPS bulbs instead of 1 bulb so gonna see what going to happen to my crop of 5 plants.
> My plan is to: Seedlings for 2 weeks under LED lights
> then 4 weeks Vegging Under the 600W HPS for 20 hours on, 4 hours Off
> and lastly 8-9 weeks flowering with 600W HPS 12 hours on, 12 hours off.
> ...


Yes and it worked great. Congrats on the spare bulb!


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## Huel Perkins (Nov 13, 2012)

I've done full grows on HPS and i've switched from MH to HPS from veg to flower, never saw a difference....

Using a quality bulb with a good spectrum is all that counts.


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## Cannaboss91 (Nov 29, 2012)

Its about setting your plant's circadian rythym. Its the timing of your light more than the amount. With 1 600 watt you definetly o.ly want to do a few plants though


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## Uncle Ben (Nov 29, 2012)

MaKaVeL1 said:


> I ordered a 600W HPS kit and they sent me 2 600W HPS bulbs instead of 1 bulb so gonna see what going to happen to my crop of 5 plants.


See my avatar? That was done (and many others) with ONLY HPS from start to finish. I've germed with 4' fluor tubes which worked well too but quickly moved them under a regular 600W HPS. The only reason to flip flop from say....MH to HPS is to keep the pocketbooks of the hydro shysters nice and fat and maintain another lame forum paradigm. Blind leading the blind.

Both lamps are full spectrum. Do the experiment yourself..... so you'll know better.

The use of HPS exclusively does not induce longer internodes. High P foods do. This is a 'must read' if you're looking for (my kind of) scientific empirical results as opposed to forum anecdotal evidence:



> Fertilizers with high proportions of their nitrogen in the nitrate form typically contain little or no phosphate, resulting in compact plants and leading to the incorrect assumption that nitrate nitrogen causes compactness. Fertilizers with high proportions of nitrogen in the ammonium form (33 percent or more) invariably contain high levels of phosphate. These fertilizers yield the more luxuriant growth to which we are accustomed and result in the belief that ammoniacal nitrogen causes stretch.
> 
> Thus, if compact plants are your goal, you should limit the amount of phosphorus applied to the plants; conversely, if full plants are your goal, you should apply fertilizers containing the appropriate levels of phosphorus.


http://www.gpnmag.com/what-really-causes-stretch

Question becomes, "what is the appropriate level of phosphorous"? I used an 18-5-9 exclusively from start to finish on this year's outdoor grow and they did very well (with the exception of being beaten up by wind....which is neither here nor there.) The plants had a very strong, thick, branching root system, leaves were green up to harvest, yields were fine. Conclusion - a 18-5-9 contains sufficient P to grow vigorous, healthy flowering foliage plants, aka cannabis.

Having said that I bought a 400W MH and vegged for a while and then added the 600W HPS. I made that choice to see if there is a difference (there isn't), to save on electricity as they seedlings grow, and to ramp up my lumen output. 

Good luck,
Uncle Ben


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## Not A Game (Nov 29, 2012)

MH bulbs are fucking stupid. 15 degree temperature decrease in my room with HPS and twice the light output.

Left: 1 plant under 400w hps
Right: 5 plants under 600w MH 



This was the only time I used an MH bulb ever and there was ZERO difference in how they grow during veg. The left plant is just naturally monstrous. It was originally started under MH, then I chose the biggest one to grow by itself. It continued to be ridiculous.


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## Huel Perkins (Nov 29, 2012)

There shouldn't be any difference in your room temps when switching between MH and HPS bulbs...


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## Not A Game (Nov 29, 2012)

Huel Perkins said:


> There shouldn't be any difference in your room temps when switching between MH and HPS bulbs...


Well there was. Regardless of the reason.

Bulb was the only thing that changed. Must be more inefficient than others.


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## Trousers (Nov 29, 2012)

Huel Perkins said:


> There shouldn't be any difference in your room temps when switching between MH and HPS bulbs...


I disagree.
I had a 600 watt hps under some stairs and it got a bit hot. 
I made it into a veg room and put a 400 watt mh in there. It got hotter than with the 600 watt hps.

MH run hotter than hps.


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## Huel Perkins (Nov 29, 2012)

Straight from Eye Hortilux....

1000w Super HPS = 752° F
1000w Standard Metal Halide = 752° F


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## Not A Game (Nov 29, 2012)

Huel Perkins said:


> Straight from Eye Hortilux....
> 
> 1000w Super HPS = 752° F
> 1000w Standard Metal Halide = 752° F


Implying that applies to all bulbs in the world.


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## Huel Perkins (Nov 29, 2012)

Not A Game said:


> Implying that applies to all bulbs in the world.


It doesn't mean every hid bulb runs at 752 degrees but its a very good indication that in general MH and HPS run at the same temperature. This was the information I got when I emailed Eye Hortilux personally last time this topic came up rather than listening to all the bullshit in these forums.


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## Not A Game (Nov 29, 2012)

Huel Perkins said:


> It doesn't mean every hid bulb runs at 752 degrees but its a very good indication that in general MH and HPS run at the same temperature. This was the information I got when I emailed Eye Hortilux personally last time this topic came up rather than listening to all the bullshit in these forums.


Well, first off, I EXPERIENCED this temperature difference firsthand as did Trousers. I didn't listen to anyone or READ about it. Clearly there's going to be differences in say a $20 bulb vs. $150 bulb and such as the way the light is produced is different. As well as high vs low efficiency materials as somewhat mentioned before.

Anyway this has nothing to do with the topic at hand so lets fuck off with this


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## tusseltussel (Nov 29, 2012)

you might reread what he wrote.


Huel Perkins said:


> Of corse a 600w bulb is going to create more heat than a 400w bulb, anyone with half a brain knows that...
> 
> 
> Straight from Eye Hortilux....
> ...


agree that fucking off is a good idea


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## Trousers (Nov 29, 2012)

Huel Perkins said:


> Of corse a 600w bulb is going to create more heat than a 400w bulb, anyone with half a brain knows that...
> 
> 
> Straight from Eye Hortilux....
> ...



Anyone with half a brain can comprehend what I wrote.

My 600 watt HPS ran _much_ _cooler_ than my 400 watt mh.
I do not believe for a second that a mh and hps run at exactly the same temp, no matter what hortilux says.


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## Huel Perkins (Nov 29, 2012)

tusseltussel said:


> you might reread what he wrote. agree that fucking off is a good idea


Looks like I misread what he wrote, my mistake!


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## Huel Perkins (Nov 29, 2012)

Believe whatever you want, I don't notice temp changes when I change my bulbs ever. Hortilux is one of the biggest / best horticulture light manufacturers in the game, I think they know what they are talking about. If you want to add in all sorts of variables and using bulbs from different manufacturers I'm sure you'll get various results....


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## Trousers (Nov 29, 2012)

I used ushio bulbs in the same cool tube. I have never heard of mh running the same heat as hps.


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## berad4guvna (Nov 29, 2012)

Below are the results of a simple google search. "I did not do this experiment, but it should shed some light "get it LOL" on the discussion."

Peace!


[SIZE=+1]*[SIZE=+2] Watts, Heat and Light : Measuring The Heat Output of Different Lamps[/SIZE]*[/SIZE]​ This experiment was intended to measure the way in which different &#8220;types&#8221; of lamps of the same wattage produce drastically different basking temperatures. 
[SIZE=+1]*Introduction*[/SIZE]
One of the basic laws of physics is the law of the Conservation of Energy. This simply states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be transferred from one form to another. So when a 100watt lamp is switched on, 100 watts of electrical energy is converted to 100watts of light and heat; a 50watt lamp produces a total 50 watts of light and heat, and so on.* However, some lamps are more efficient at producing light than others; this determines how much of that 100 watts is transformed into light, and how much is "wasted" and comes out as heat (very useful, though, if what we want is a basking lamp). 
An *incandescent lamp* is an extremely inefficient light source. According to the Wikipedia online encyclopaedia, a 100 watt bulb is 2.1% efficient. In other words, it produces about 2 watts of light and 98 watts of heat.
A *halogen lamp* is a bit better. For every 100 watts you put in, you get about 3.5 watts of light and 96.5 watts of heat.
*Fluorescent lamps* are said to be about 8.2% efficient, and although there were no figures on Wikipedia for *mercury vapour lamps*, I found one reference saying they were about as efficient as fluorescent lamps, and another that said they were three times as efficient as incandescent lamps... so we're looking at 6 - 8% efficiency here. 100 watts of electricity will be converted to, at most 8 watts of light (including UV light) and 92% will still come out as heat. 
So the main factors which determine how much heat a lamp puts out, are what type of lamp it is, and its wattage.
However, *the heat and light from a lamp can be emitted in all directions, or focused on a small area* (consider the heat and light you might experience sitting 2ft below a 60 watt frosted "globe" lamp as opposed to a 60 watt narrow beam spot lamp) hence the shape of the lamp, the type of glass surface and the presence or absence of reflectors, such are found inside spot lamps, will also play a major part in determining how hot a basking spot gets directly under any lamp, of whatever wattage. 

 


 



 [SIZE=+1]*




The Experiment.*[/SIZE]
In this experiment we used a &#8220;heat collector&#8221; that consisted of a small metal disc painted flat black. This is the most efficient form of material to absorb the light and heat energy. This was placed on top of a white styrofoam block that would not absorb much heat. This was positioned at 12&#8221; (30cm) from the light source. 





We collected data at 2, 5 and 10 minutes using an infra-red "temperature gun". We also took temperature readings at the base of the fixture to see how much heat energy was being lost out the back of the lamps. The fixtures were allowed to cool before the next set of readings were recorded. 
Understand that the temperatures reported do not necessarily represent the actual temperatures you may find in your vivarium, produced by the lamps listed, because different materials will reflect and absorb heat at different rates. The small black metal discs we used will absorb heat differently, and give different results, from a light brown basking log, or white sand, or a living reptile body. Living creatures will disperse heat through their body according to mass. Always triple check basking area temperatures before allowing any reptiles to be exposed to new lamps. 

*[SIZE=+1]Results[/SIZE]*

*MAKE**WATTS**TYPE of BULB**TEMP (°F) @ 12"**TEMP (°F) of Lamp Fixture* 2 min5 min10 min2 min5 min10minZooMed150Infra-red Spot149159171778082ZooMed160MV Flood 'Powersun'961061158595102Westron160MV Flood 'MegaRay SB'98112128747784ESU150Incandescent 'Nocturnal BL' 143164165100118118ESU 150Incandescent 'Brightlight'191209218757779ZooMed150Flood 'Basking Lamp'181186195105114123ZooMed100MV Flood 'Powersun'11813113698116118T Rex100MV Spot 'Active UV Heat'9311413684102113ESU100Incandescent 'Nightlight'134150152788083ESU100Incandescent 'Brightlight'165188194777981ACE100Halogen Flood205226226778286ZooMed100Ceramic Heat Emitter1011271407599104GE100Halogen Spot Lamp158257271758287GE100Halogen Flood Lamp128178187748688GE75Incandescent Spot 'Black Light'92101103899697GE60Incandescent 'Black Light'1021091129394105GE60Incandescent Clear Glass169176178758186Westron60Inline MV Flood Lamp9597103909398Westron 60Inline MV Spot Lamp130146150Westron 60Heat Emitter98112130777980GE50Halogen Spot Lamp185193196768588GE50Halogen Flood Lamp123138141747881
 
*[SIZE=+1]Additional Experiment[/SIZE]*
This experiment dramatically demonstrates the difference in heat output between a 60 watt externally ballasted mercury vapour lamp and a 60 watt halogen lamp. 
We placed a 60 watt external ballasted mercury vapor lamp and a 60 watt halogen lamp in two separate insulated boxes with a thermometer inside. If both lamps put out roughly the same amount of heat, these two lamps should have effectively raised the temperature in both boxes to the same degree. After 30 minutes, the thermometer in the container with the halogen lamp gave a reading 20°F higher than the other box, (135°F vs 115 °F) and the heat from the halogen lamp had actually warped the plastic! 

 


 


 



 [SIZE=+1]*Another reason for not using the wattage of a lamp as a guide to its heat output.*[/SIZE]
Even though we expect the stated wattage on a bulb to be correct, there is always the possibility that it isn&#8217;t. We have had several imported mercury vapor lamps tested for wastage and have found that there are some that have been stated as 60 watt yet under investigation were actually 150 watt bulbs. Once again, I can&#8217;t express enough the importance of checking basking area temperatures and never relay on the wattage of the lamp to speculate on temperatures they will produce. 
Bob MacCargar
January 2006​ * well, nothing's as perfect as that.. but that's the general idea.


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## mousebuddha (Dec 1, 2012)

I have done many grows all the way throught with 6x600 hps, watch for stretch though. always good results.


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## Trousers (Dec 2, 2012)

That might have been useful if there were mh and hps bulbs included.


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## PJ Diaz (Dec 4, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> See my avatar? That was done (and many others) with ONLY HPS from start to finish. I've germed with 4' fluor tubes which worked well too but quickly moved them under a regular 600W HPS. The only reason to flip flop from say....MH to HPS is to keep the pocketbooks of the hydro shysters nice and fat and maintain another lame forum paradigm. Blind leading the blind.
> 
> Both lamps are full spectrum. Do the experiment yourself..... so you'll know better.
> 
> The use of HPS exclusively does not induce longer internodes.


I've vegged under both lamp types with identical clones, and can definitely say MH produces shorter internodes during the veg cycle. IMO, either one is fine, but I give the slight edge in veg to MH. 

Of course MH will always run hotter than HPS. It's simple physics really. MH produces less light output, and therefore more heat.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 4, 2012)

PJ Diaz said:


> I've vegged under both lamp types with identical clones, and can definitely say MH produces shorter internodes during the veg cycle.


I'm real happy for you. Now see my Tweeks for some facts regarding what elemental combos produce tall versus compact plants. 

UB


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## Trousers (Dec 4, 2012)

I veg with my 600 watt hps and my plants are too bushy. I would like them to stretch a bit. I actually moved the light up a bit. My internodes are stacked. 

Even my lamb's breath has short internodes.


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## PJ Diaz (Dec 5, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> I'm real happy for you. Now see my Tweeks for some facts regarding what elemental combos produce tall versus compact plants.
> 
> UB


Thanks, but I already have that worked out. The fact that HPS produces longer internodes doesn't automatically mean I have a problem. "Longer" is not the same as "too long".

Once you realize that you don't in fact know more than everyone else is the day you will truly begin learning.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 6, 2012)

Trousers said:


> I veg with my 600 watt hps and my plants are too bushy. I would like them to stretch a bit. I actually moved the light up a bit. My internodes are stacked.
> 
> Even my lamb's breath has short internodes.


Get away from indica genes. I too have had mutts like that. You want stacked nodes? This Peak19 (male parent) had internodes about 1/4" apart, until the stretch. Leaves were as big as dinner plates. This plant is only 3 weeks old from the time that the cotyledons popped the soil's surface.


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## Trousers (Dec 6, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Get away from indica genes. I too have had mutts like that. You want stacked nodes? This Peak19 (male parent) had internodes about 1/4" apart, until the stretch. Leaves were as big as dinner plates. This plant is only 3 weeks old from the time that the cotyledons popped the soil's surface.
> 
> View attachment 2432608


Mutts are the best. 
One of the plants is Lamb's Breath, almost full sativa. The other is Grape Ape a hybrid. The internodes are stacked. When you veg with a 600 watt bulb, even if it is an HPS, the internodes are going to be tight. If I grew the same plants under a t5 the internodes would be much farther apart. Stacked internodes is a good problem. 


I do not like a lot of sativas. If I smoke them in the morning I need a nap at 3. Haze will put me to sleep. Hate it unless it is mixed with something, then I love it.


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## Alexander Supertramp (Dec 6, 2012)

IMO HPS from start too finish is the only way too go...


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