# Higher temps and THC



## jijiandfarmgang (Jul 26, 2015)

Hello,

I was talking about high temps in the grow room and started thinking.

Many growers like to utilize CO2 and also use higher temps, usually in the 80's. Also during summer months many growers just don't keep there room that cool.

I've read research papers from OLE MISS on growth rates of cannabis and temps in the lower 80's and I don't doubt that to an extent higher temps cause higher growth rates.

But does that hinder THC levels or CBD CBN terpenes etc? The only tidbit I read about this that Ed Rosenthal wrote about THC rapidly degrading above 85f (if I recall correctly). I was thinking with so many people testing there strains more info might be out on this.

- Jiji


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## a mongo frog (Jul 26, 2015)

I run 80 degrees 81 max with co2. This was the thc numbers in april.


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## Cpappa27 (Jul 27, 2015)

My very first grow the tempos would get up into the high 90's and I got some good weight off the white widow but the there were less trichomes so not as frosty as the grow after that which was with the same strain but with LEDs and temps in the mid to high seventies. I didnt seem to get as good a yield off the plant with the lower temps but the quality was superb.


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## AzaruleGreen (Jul 27, 2015)

I'v read humidity plays a huge role in trichome levels (less humidity means more trichomes) and typically humidity is higher in hot temperatures, so I wonder what would happen if you could maintain a 15 to 20 % humidity level in the higher temperatures. It is much harder to maintain lower humidity when in a hot environment versus a colder environment. if anyone does do this experiment you have to pay attention to the color of trichomes and see if they become more opaque (convert more THC into CBN) faster then they would in colder temperatures. The reason I mention this is because it is possible the temperature doesn't directly effect the THC levels but rather increases humidity and perhaps the plants sensitivity to humidity? Very good question though I hope people with more knowledge post on here with some more info.


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## pseudobotanist (Aug 15, 2015)

Checkout riddles' balls to the wall grow. He had the same thought as you a few years back and experimented with heat


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## ttystikk (Aug 15, 2015)

pseudobotanist said:


> Checkout riddles' balls to the wall grow. He had the same thought as you a few years back and experimented with heat


Link?


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## ttystikk (Aug 15, 2015)

AzaruleGreen said:


> I'v read humidity plays a huge role in trichome levels (less humidity means more trichomes) and typically humidity is higher in hot temperatures, so I wonder what would happen if you could maintain a 15 to 20 % humidity level in the higher temperatures. It is much harder to maintain lower humidity when in a hot environment versus a colder environment. if anyone does do this experiment you have to pay attention to the color of trichomes and see if they become more opaque (convert more THC into CBN) faster then they would in colder temperatures. The reason I mention this is because it is possible the temperature doesn't directly effect the THC levels but rather increases humidity and perhaps the plants sensitivity to humidity? Very good question though I hope people with more knowledge post on here with some more info.


I run higher humidity than standard practice all the time. My trichome production is a bit off from usual lately because of high summer temps. So RH is not a significant factor in trichome production, IME.


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## pseudobotanist (Aug 15, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Link?


Its a long read 
https://www.rollitup.org/t/balls-to-the-wall-grow-riddleme-gets-serious.347914/


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## BobCajun (Aug 18, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was talking about high temps in the grow room and started thinking.
> 
> ...


I recently found this *article* which indicates that temperature has a dramatic effect on THC content, like 3-4 times difference in some strains. This may be a big selling point for LED lighting, which otherwise seems to require close to the same wattage as HID to get similar light levels but costs a lot more. If it's going to make the difference between a 23° and a 30° chamber it may well be worth the price.


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## jijiandfarmgang (Aug 18, 2015)

BobCajun said:


> I recently found this *article* which indicates that temperature has a dramatic effect on THC content, like 3-4 times difference in some strains. This may be a big selling point for LED lighting, which otherwise seems to require close to the same wattage as HID to get similar light levels but costs a lot more. If it's going to make the difference between a 23° and a 30° chamber it may well be worth the price.


Great find. Exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

- Jiji


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## Rrog (Aug 18, 2015)

That linkie no workie


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## jijiandfarmgang (Aug 18, 2015)

http://www.medicinalgenomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Photosynthesis-and-Cannabinoid-Content.pdf


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## james murphy (Aug 20, 2015)

i prefer 85 during flower 35 humidity..and 67 at night w humidity roughly the same...i have lots of trichs. over 90 and 45 humidity i can tell quite a dif in thc production


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## qwizoking (Aug 20, 2015)

But does that hinder THC levels or CBD CBN terpenes etc? The only tidbit I read about this that Ed Rosenthal wrote about THC rapidly degrading above 85f (if I recall correctly)


no... and honestly i would stop reading anything by him.


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## BobCajun (Aug 21, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> http://www.medicinalgenomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Photosynthesis-and-Cannabinoid-Content.pdf


Thanks for posting the link. I don't know what happened with my article link. It turned out as just the name of the article with http:// before it, for some reason. I must have copy/pasted the article name instead of the URL. Another interesting thing in the article was the graph showing that Cannabis can use up to about 120,000 lux before becomeing light saturated. That's full sunlight intensity if not higher. I read that sunlight is only about 98,000 lux.


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## jijiandfarmgang (Aug 23, 2015)

BobCajun said:


> Thanks for posting the link. I don't know what happened with my article link. It turned out as just the name of the article with http:// before it, for some reason. I must have copy/pasted the article name instead of the URL. Another interesting thing in the article was the graph showing that Cannabis can use up to about 120,000 lux before becomeing light saturated. That's full sunlight intensity if not higher. I read that sunlight is only about 98,000 lux.


Did you read this article? It is a great one.

Light dependence of photosynthesis and water vaor exchange chracteristics in different high THC yeilding varieties of Cannabis sativa L.

- Jiji


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## VTMi'kmaq (Aug 23, 2015)

I have been super lazy, never checked temps at a diligent level. I read a shit ton is valid/pertinant info however, I STILL AINT LEAVING my hps/mh in unison set-up sorry led.


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## innerG (Aug 25, 2015)

Damn, I don't run Co2 but mine stay at like 70-76. They start to freak out if the temp gets up near 80, i guess its just what they're used to.

I've always heard that "if it's comfortable for you, it's comfortable for the plants." Lol pretty scientific


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## testiclees (Aug 25, 2015)

BobCajun said:


> I recently found this *article* which indicates that temperature has a dramatic effect on THC content, like 3-4 times difference in some strains. This may be a big selling point for LED lighting, which otherwise seems to require close to the same wattage as HID to get similar light levels but costs a lot more. If it's going to make the difference between a 23° and a 30° chamber it may well be worth the price.


 Nah on the wattage claim. Top quality led IS FAR MORE EFFICIENT THAN HID WATT FOR WATT.

Also not overly expensive if you build your own. RIU led diy is the leader in the cannabis world for latest LED tech and know how.


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## jijiandfarmgang (Aug 25, 2015)

I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only person not impressed by leds on RIU.

- Jiji


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## a mongo frog (Aug 25, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only person not impressed by leds on RIU.
> 
> - Jiji


You might be. Ive seen 3-4 grows on hear that looked to compete easily with HPS. Quality of bud was to the T, and yield was also great. About a 3x3 area is what i saw, and i think theirs someone with a lamp that covers 4x4. It would be real interesting to see how the 4x4 lamp does. Totally impressed by what their all doing.


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## DirtyMcCurdy (Aug 26, 2015)

AzaruleGreen said:


> I'v read humidity plays a huge role in trichome levels (less humidity means more trichomes) and typically humidity is higher in hot temperatures, so I wonder what would happen if you could maintain a 15 to 20 % humidity level in the higher temperatures. It is much harder to maintain lower humidity when in a hot environment versus a colder environment. if anyone does do this experiment you have to pay attention to the color of trichomes and see if they become more opaque (convert more THC into CBN) faster then they would in colder temperatures. The reason I mention this is because it is possible the temperature doesn't directly effect the THC levels but rather increases humidity and perhaps the plants sensitivity to humidity? Very good question though I hope people with more knowledge post on here with some more info.


You are pretty much referring to what is called vapor pressure deficit. Its not as easy as high temps low humidty because yes, plants are sensitive to humidity, very sensitive. High temps with low humidity will likely lead to plants wilting, they can only transpire at a certain rate, you have to get as close to that rate as you can with temps/humidity. High temps, relatively high humidity. Low temps, relatively low humdity.


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## ttystikk (Aug 26, 2015)

DirtyMcCurdy said:


> You are pretty much referring to what is called vapor pressure deficit. Its not as easy as high temps low humidty because yes, plants are sensitive to humidity, very sensitive. High temps with low humidity will likely lead to plants wilting, they can only transpire at a certain rate, you have to get as close to that rate as you can with temps/humidity. High temps, relatively high humidity. Low temps, relatively low humdity.


VPD explains why I run in the low to mid 80s for temps and seventies for RH.

Age explains why I listen to the mid 80s, for B-52s and Devo....


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## ttystikk (Aug 26, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only person not impressed by leds on RIU.
> 
> - Jiji


I'm about to build a monster COB LED array that will prove once and for all whether LED can scale up to larger grows- or if it's still a toy for postage stamp ops.

Frankly, my money is on LED...


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## testiclees (Aug 26, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only person not impressed by leds on RIU.
> 
> - Jiji


There are plenty of folks who arent impressed but if they observed the grows done with top gear the only explanation could be denial.

In my experience denial is prevalent in all stoner forums. Maybe because critical thinking and being high arent the most compatible practices?


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## ttystikk (Aug 26, 2015)

testiclees said:


> There are plenty of folks who arent impressed but if they observed the grows done with top gear the only explanation could be denial.
> 
> In my experience denial is prevalent in all stoner forums. Maybe because critical thinking and being high arent the most compatible practices?


I think the ability to think critically is independent of one's predilection for puffing pot pipes. I know lots of people who are good at thinking critically and nothing changes when they get high.

I smoke every day and I get comments about my thinking- or the results from same- on a daily basis. A few are even complimentary!


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## jijiandfarmgang (Aug 26, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I'm about to build a monster COB LED array that will prove once and for all whether LED can scale up to larger grows- or if it's still a toy for postage stamp ops.
> 
> Frankly, my money is on LED...


Good luck to you. I'd like to see this grow.

I'd bet you wouldn't do that well with leds, but I'd like it if you'd prove me wrong.

The only people that seem to do well are small scrogs. Which if thats what your into than I could see using leds.

- Jiji


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## testiclees (Aug 26, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I think the ability to think critically is independent of one's predilection for puffing pot pipes. I know lots of people who are good at thinking critically and nothing changes when they get high.
> 
> I smoke every day and I get comments about my thinking- or the results from same- on a daily basis. A few are even complimentary!


ok good points...but you must admit your not going to defend your PhD dissertation stoned or logically entertain seriously complex issues stoned. Im familiar with smoking and also with cogent thinking. Stonedness certainly does not lend itself to rigorous disciplined thought.

I think that partially explains much of the baseless dogma that fills stoner forums.


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## ttystikk (Aug 26, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> Good luck to you. I'd like to see this grow.
> 
> I'd bet you wouldn't do that well with leds, but I'd like it if you'd prove me wrong.
> 
> ...


This is exactly the assumption I aim to put to the test. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying my hypothesis is that this is incorrect and I'm going to build a test rig to prove it one way or another.

Then, we'll KNOW.


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## a mongo frog (Aug 26, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> This is exactly the assumption I aim to put to the test. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying my hypothesis is that this is incorrect and I'm going to build a test rig to prove it one way or another.
> 
> Then, we'll KNOW.


Just make sure you buy Cree products please.....


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## ttystikk (Aug 26, 2015)

testiclees said:


> ok good points...but you must admit your not going to defend your PhD dissertation stoned or logically entertain seriously complex issues stoned. Im familiar with smoking and also with cogent thinking. Stonedness certainly does not lend itself to rigorous disciplined thought.
> 
> I think that partially explains much of the baseless dogma that fills stoner forums.


Rigorous, disciplined thought is just that- a discipline, requiring practice to achieve and maintain.

At the other end of that scale of thought processes lives free form, unrestricted brainstorming.

In my humble opinion, Genius lies in being able to do both- or at least go back and forth- constructively.

Cannabis certainly helps me do this. Therefore, I believe it assists my cognitive process... and I'm not alone in this thinking. No one could reasonably accuse the late Dr. Carl Sagan of an inability to think critically- yet he was an early and vocal advocate for legalization, based on his own experience.

Not a bad refutation, eh? Especially considering I've been rippin' hard on my hash pen all morning?!


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## jijiandfarmgang (Aug 26, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> This is exactly the assumption I aim to put to the test. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying my hypothesis is that this is incorrect and I'm going to build a test rig to prove it one way or another.
> 
> Then, we'll KNOW.


Cool. Maybe I am in denial lol. You know, maybe I will try a small led setup, for myself just to say I did it. If I ever get around to it. Not an experiment like what your doing which is more interesting. What I'd really like to do is have the terp profile analyzed compared to hps.

- Jiji


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## ttystikk (Aug 26, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> Just make sure you buy Cree products please.....


CXB3590, @56% efficiency, 3500k color temp. Oh yeah, the parts list is coming together!


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## ttystikk (Aug 26, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> Cool. Maybe I am in denial lol. You know, maybe I will try a small led setup, for myself just to say I did it. If I ever get around to it. Not an experiment like what your doing which is more interesting. What I'd really like to do is have the terp profile analyzed compared to hps.
> 
> - Jiji


That's an excellent suggestion! Should do it with HPS, MH, CDM and 315W LEC, too while we're at it.

And, from @RM3 's bright lil coffin o' T5 goodness, lest we forget!


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## testiclees (Aug 26, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> CXB3590, @56% efficiency, 3500k color temp. Oh yeah, the parts list is coming together!


i use that exact combo 72v


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## testiclees (Aug 26, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> Good luck to you. I'd like to see this grow.
> 
> I'd bet you wouldn't do that well with leds, but I'd like it if you'd prove me wrong.
> 
> ...


it doesnt seem like youve done much research. Shitty leds will produce decent weed and decent weight excellent leds will outperform all other technologies. 

Check out realstyles and greengenes, supra they arent small scrogs and all of em kill it on yield.

The terpene question is a good one. i think led would have anadvantage because of the coolness. With top leds 55% of tbe energy is going to photons with the best hid 65% is going to heat.


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## ttystikk (Aug 26, 2015)

testiclees said:


> i use that exact combo 72v


It's straight from @SupraSPL 's playbook.


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## SupraSPL (Aug 26, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> Cool. Maybe I am in denial lol. You know, maybe I will try a small led setup, for myself just to say I did it. If I ever get around to it. Not an experiment like what your doing which is more interesting. What I'd really like to do is have the terp profile analyzed compared to hps.
> 
> - Jiji


Greengenes did a side by side, LED vs enhanced HPS using the blue dream clone-only. The LED bud tested higher in cannabinoids and terpenes and yielded higher in gpw. Something I have been coming to realize, even when my ambient temp is under control, actual bud temp also depends on light intensity. That is why many people prefer the mid level nugs rather than the uppermost in the canopy. Most varieties bud's really do not like high temps, CO2 or not. So even with high efficiency COBs and low canopy temps, I have to keep an eye on bud temp.

Captain Morgan if you know him is a no-BS kind of guy. He recently reported above 2 gpw with gorilla glue clone-only in scrog, COB grown. He is in the process of upgrading from 42% efficiency to 64% efficiency so in theory *3 gpw could be possible already*. There is no lighting technology that has any hope of competing with that performance and cost has been coming down fast. There is no reason it cannot be scaled up, you can do it in a micro or in a warehouse.


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## a mongo frog (Aug 26, 2015)

There is also a gardener here doing a blue dream run i believe in a 4x4 space. Multiple plant grow on a table. Very excited to see his numbers as well.


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## BobCajun (Aug 27, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> Did you read this article? It is a great one.
> 
> Light dependence of photosynthesis and water vaor exchange chracteristics in different high THC yeilding varieties of Cannabis sativa L.
> 
> - Jiji


Thanks, interesting article. Would have been nice if they gave the variation in THC content for different PPFD levels too. Still, it does show that growth increases right up to 2000 PPFD, which is sunlight at noon in summer.


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## BobCajun (Aug 27, 2015)

testiclees said:


> Nah on the wattage claim. Top quality led IS FAR MORE EFFICIENT THAN HID WATT FOR WATT.
> 
> Also not overly expensive if you build your own. RIU led diy is the leader in the cannabis world for latest LED tech and know how.


Well, this article seems to indicate roughly equal efficacies in PPFD output per watt input. Most of the LED lamps were considerably less efficient than HPS, others were closer. How that translates into actual plant growth and dry weight were not included. It may well be that LED produces more actual weight per watt, since it has a wider spectrum and more far red and blue in its spectrum. Far red is known to increase photosynthesis significantly in some plants and I think Cannabis is one of them. Lights can have equal PPFD levels but considerably different actual spectrums. HPS has a bunch of PPFD in one tight red range.

I've read that LED does expend 70-80% of its power input on heat production, close to that of most other lights including incandescents and HID, just that it comes from the back of the lights rather than from infrared light being shone into the growing chamber as in the case of HPS. You just need to cool the heatsink on top of the LED fixture rather than the chamber itself. Preferably, you would have the top of the lamps outside the top of the growing chamber. I haven't seen anyone actually doing that but that would be my suggestion. Growing chamber temps could thereby be kept quite low.

I actually just ordered a Spectrum King LED light so I'll report back in a few months on the results. They're actually just generic high bay LED lamps but apparently do work for plant growth. This article discusses white LEDs for plant growth. The high bays Spectrum King sells are neutral whites, 4000k. I know because in one video they held a light meter under them and it showed 4000k and the spectrum graph exactly matched the one from Cree LED company's graph for 2600-3700k LEDs. Apparently the 4000k ones are close enough to 3700k that you can't notice a significant difference. This image shows the graph. The red line is the one that the meter showed under the 90 degree Spectrum King fixture. Here's the video with the meter.


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## testiclees (Aug 27, 2015)

BobCajun said:


> Well, this article seems to indicate roughly equal efficacies in PPFD output per watt input. Most of the LED lamps were considerably less efficient than HPS, others were closer. How that translates into actual plant growth and dry weight were not included. It may well be that LED produces more actual weight per watt, since it has a wider spectrum and more far red and blue in its spectrum. Far red is known to increase photosynthesis significantly in some plants and I think Cannabis is one of them. Lights can have equal PPFD levels but considerably different actual spectrums. HPS has a bunch of PPFD in one tight red range.
> 
> I've read that LED does expend 70-80% of its power input on heat production, close to that of most other lights including incandescents and HID, just that it comes from the back of the lights rather than from infrared light being shone into the growing chamber as in the case of HPS. You just need to cool the heatsink on top of the LED fixture rather than the chamber itself. Preferably, you would have the top of the lamps outside the top of the growing chamber. I haven't seen anyone actually doing that but that would be my suggestion. Growing chamber temps could thereby be kept quite low.
> 
> I actually just ordered a Spectrum King LED light so I'll report back in a few months on the results. They're actually just generic high bay LED lamps but apparently do work for plant growth. This article discusses white LEDs for plant growth. The high bays Spectrum King sells are neutral whites, 4000k. I know because in one video they held a light meter under them and it showed 4000k and the spectrum graph exactly matched the one from Cree LED company's graph for 2600-3700k LEDs. Apparently the 4000k ones are close enough to 3700k that you can't notice a significant difference. This image shows the graph. The red line is the one that the meter showed under the 90 degree Spectrum King fixture. Here's the video with the meter.



Thanks for all that info. I'll give it a close look after work. LED has the huge advantage of directing it's beam in one direction. Loss from 360 degree bulbs is huge.

Only shitty LED's expend high amounts of their power input on heat production. Folks in diy section are building lamps that expend <40% on heat production. For example cxb3590 run at low current are above 60% efficient. It's expensive to take this approach but it has the added benefit of very low heat and emitters can be very close to the canopy. The physics with light and heat is super tricky because eventually all radiance is heat, i think.

My setup uses bridgelux vero's and cree cxb 3590 with a uvb. It's a first run with this rig so I'm watching closely. These lights are 4000k and 3500k


In some recent posts here at RIU Spectrum King got beat up by the diy led crew.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/think-ive-been-led-astray.881108/


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## jijiandfarmgang (Aug 28, 2015)

BobCajun said:


> I've read that LED does expend 70-80% of its power input on heat production, close to that of most other lights including incandescents and HID, just that it comes from the back of the lights rather than from infrared light being shone into the growing chamber as in the case of HPS. You just need to cool the heatsink on top of the LED fixture rather than the chamber itself. Preferably, you would have the top of the lamps outside the top of the growing chamber. I haven't seen anyone actually doing that but that would be my suggestion. Growing chamber temps could thereby be kept quite low.


Not LEDs but Medicropper is doing this with Gavitas. He has a seperate chamber of air space that is fan cooled for top of reflector and ballast. I'm sure it would be easier with homebrew leds, as long as you designed for that purpose. Really cost effective way of getting rid of excess heat.






- Jiji


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## BobCajun (Aug 28, 2015)

Looks like a nice room.


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## shloppyjoe (Sep 23, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> Not LEDs but Medicropper is doing this with Gavitas. He has a seperate chamber of air space that is fan cooled for top of reflector and ballast. I'm sure it would be easier with homebrew leds, as long as you designed for that purpose. Really cost effective way of getting rid of excess heat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


THIS! This is somewhat the room I want! The cleanliness, the amount of reflective material, the symmetry it's all perfect! What a clean and efficient design! If anyone would like to help me out on what materials I need to replicate some of the key features of that flower room I'm all ears! Obviously planning on doing that on a smaller scale also.


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## DirtyEyeball696 (Sep 23, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only person not impressed by leds on RIU.
> 
> - Jiji


Try this Jill 
http://www.growweedeasy.com/co2


Bawse with all the Sawse!


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## testiclees (Oct 3, 2015)

DirtyEyeball696 said:


> Try this Jill
> http://www.growweedeasy.com/co2
> 
> 
> Bawse with all the Sawse!


that article provides useful info on CO2 supplementation but the lighting suggestions are out dated.


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## Entourageeffect (Oct 3, 2015)

Heat is a catalyst for growth, that is why you see rapid growth as it gets warmer. Cannabis is an annual, which means it flowers once a year. Typically heat signals a change in season's, such as going from winter to spring. 

As far as THC is concerned, I can't answer the question if it has a direct effect on higher potency. One thing you can do is experiment with UVA and UVB lighting to increase potency and resin production. I say this cause light intensity is sometimes associated with heat. 

Some people speculate that cannabis will increase resin production to protect itself from the UVA and UVB lighting, it acts as a sunscreen from what some people say. Have I done any experiments to confirm this? No, but it does sound plausible. Why? Some of the most potent strains come from mountainous regions where they are not getting as much protection from the ozone layer and are exposed to more intense forms of light, people hypothesize that because of this, cannabis reacts and creates more resin to protect itself.


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## Entourageeffect (Oct 3, 2015)




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## hellmutt bones (Oct 3, 2015)

a mongo frog said:


> You might be. Ive seen 3-4 grows on hear that looked to compete easily with HPS. Quality of bud was to the T, and yield was also great. About a 3x3 area is what i saw, and i think theirs someone with a lamp that covers 4x4. It would be real interesting to see how the 4x4 lamp does. Totally impressed by what their all doing.


This guy...


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## a mongo frog (Oct 3, 2015)

hellmutt bones said:


> This guy...


same guy thats in post #2. you can't be that mad at him....


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## ttystikk (Oct 3, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> Good luck to you. I'd like to see this grow.
> 
> I'd bet you wouldn't do that well with leds, but I'd like it if you'd prove me wrong.
> 
> ...


The COB led array will light my Vertical ScrOG panels, 6' tall x 4' wide. I do pretty well with them now under 860W CDM lamps;
 

I believe that using 4800W of CXB3590 3500K will produce better yields than a similar wattage of any HID lighting system currently available.

Testing time is coming up soon.


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## ttystikk (Oct 3, 2015)

testiclees said:


> Thanks for all that info. I'll give it a close look after work. LED has the huge advantage of directing it's beam in one direction. Loss from 360 degree bulbs is huge.
> 
> Only shitty LED's expend high amounts of their power input on heat production. Folks in diy section are building lamps that expend <40% on heat production. For example cxb3590 run at low current are above 60% efficient. It's expensive to take this approach but it has the added benefit of very low heat and emitters can be very close to the canopy. The physics with light and heat is super tricky because eventually all radiance is heat, i think.
> 
> ...


Please tell me more about your UVB supplementation?


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## testiclees (Oct 3, 2015)

I was convinced enough by kitehigh's posts to try uvb. i grabbed a 36" t5 arcadia 54w, 12% uvb tube and mounted a fixture under my light.

I am just finishing first run with it. Nothing definitive to report but i am going to keep using it.


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## testiclees (Oct 4, 2015)

the t5 is in fact 46"

http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/light-bulbs/


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## legallyflying (Oct 10, 2015)

We have run at allot of temperatures across the board and always use co2. Strong light and high temps will ruin good bud. 

First thing first, if you want to do it right then go to harbor freight and get an infrared laser thermometer. That way you can see what the LEAF TEMPERATURE IS. We run around 85 in veg at 1500ppm. Same goes for the first couple weeks of flower. Stretch is limited by essentially zero day/night temp differential in those first couple weeks. 

Once buds start to form, we cool it down to 80 max. Once trichomes really start to develop it's down to 75. Co2 at around 1k as higher is just a waste at that temp. The last couple weeks we get it as cold as the 40 tons of AC can make it. Which depending in the season is between 70 and 74. 

Your terpines will off gas above 75. There are PLENTY of journal articles about this. We have been doing terpines profiles along with our cannaboid testing and I can tell you that same strains, same lights, same nutes.. there was about 50% less terpines in our July harvest because it was soo hot. 

Lastly, we ditched the dehu and just run an AC in the drying room. It's about 69-70 degrees in there and the bud smells soooo much better. 

Yeah yeah yeah, blah blah blah you can grow weed in 90+ degree heat. But my thought is that we are taking about maximizing quality. 

Lastly, I have found that reducing calcium when running them hot and high co2 helps prevent deficiencies from the roots not being able to keep up. With lower N-Ca ratio the plants can uptake greater amounts of nutes. Our veg and early flower mix is like 1 -.75 N to Ca. This does require you mix your own nutes but again, what serious grower is purchasing jugs of water from the hydro store. It's daunting at first, but I calculated we are going to save 8k this year from mixing our own nutrients. Just for reference, all combined a and b veg and flower we run through about 100 gallons of nutrients a year. 

Peace out, happy growing and keep that shit chill!!!


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## legallyflying (Oct 10, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> The COB led array will light my Vertical ScrOG panels, 6' tall x 4' wide. I do pretty well with them now under 860W CDM lamps;
> View attachment 3513378
> 
> I believe that using 4800W of CXB3590 3500K will produce better yields than a similar wattage of any HID lighting system currently available.
> ...


Hey.. no using the same picture twice!!


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