# My Current set up: journal?



## VictorVIcious (Nov 5, 2007)

I haven't ever posted a journal, never could see the end of it. And a year and a half journal would be a little long. You know I always say, "Got any pictures, we like pictures....". Gottafew. Kind of a panorama around the shop. I already posted construction of the tables, the bud dryer and the clone stand so I won't repeat those here. I have 5 tables currently in use, three in my 14' x 5' flowering area, and two in my 8' by 6' mother clone area. Two of the tables in the flowering room are lit with 4' 8tube t-5 fixtures, 1/2 red spectrum, 1/2 blue spectrum. The third has one of the origianl 400 watt hps hid's I purchased to start with, which I will be replacing.
I decided to put the third t-5 I purchased over the clones that are getting ready to go into flowering. Up to that point I was using 4-2 tube t-12 with a mixture of the right blue and white light bulbs. I still have the t-12's over the mothers and that will be were the next replacement light goes.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 5, 2007)

Of course have to have some clones too. These are just t-8 2' fixtures for now. Once in a while some one will mention heat as an issue. These three fans keep the air circulating, one at each end of the flowering room and one in the clone/mother area. These vents are connected to an 8" duct with a 500cfm inline fan that vents directly out the top of my roof.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 5, 2007)

I want the air moving. co2 is heavier than air, I don't want it sitting on the floor. And I want the room to smell nice. This bucket has Videomans cheap odor control with a small difference. I just put the gallon bucket of ONA gel in it and made legs to keep the fan in place. I just drilled them to match the original screw holes, cost less then $50.00 including the ONA. I have a fan blowing under the flowering tables and one for the mother clone area. And one that sits on the top of my heater. 'Fresh' air is as important and an integral part of controlling temps. Keep it moving.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 5, 2007)

I like my little rolling work table, saves my back, and this is my little sanctuary. I have RO water and a system for distributing it directly to my reservoirs and a floor drain. The floor is concrete so I don't have to worry about spills, good thing huh. I uhhh.... haven't costed this one out yet. Future plans call for two more T-5 lights, a carbon filter and fan for it, and then co2 with proper controls. Well thats my story.


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## sk3tch3 (Nov 5, 2007)

very nice... i love it in fact.


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## email468 (Nov 5, 2007)

Well VictorVicious - i love my set-up but yours causes me some twinges of jealousy 

You have done you homework and it certainly shows!


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## bryant228 (Nov 6, 2007)

Very nice Victor. You should keep this up as your journal, or something like it. Its nice to see your complete setup. Would love to know some of your trade secrets.


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## jonnyblaze24 (Nov 6, 2007)

Yep very nice VV.....Enjoyed looking at all the stuff and I too am jealous lol!
I want to get one of those 4' 8 tube T5's you speak so highly of!


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 6, 2007)

Almost all of my 'trade secrets' came from rollitup's forum. VV


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## MagusALL (Nov 6, 2007)

i see some people saying you can start to finish using t-5's. is this true? is this a legitimate alternative to HID's with similar yield? btw, your setup is as legit as you can get. dont see any holes there from my knowledge base.


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## wafflehouselover (Nov 7, 2007)

very nice setup


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## mastakoosh (Nov 7, 2007)

a peek into a veterans grow. veddy nice.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 7, 2007)

Yes you can. The t-5 are 40,000 lumens which is alost the same as a 400watt hid. Since you can get it closer to the plants and since the light is spread out over a larger area evenly you can match the harvest of a 600watthid. Part of the reason is because you can mix the spectrum of bulbs 1/2 red and1/2 blue, which outperforms the 'enhanced spectrum bulbs. You can see I don't have a height issue and my tables are 40" tall which saves my back. And I don't have heat issues like I would have with the 600watt hids. No separate ballast to deal with, saves another foot of height, they are simple better for any closet grow. If you have room, like I do, and you insist on having 600watts of power being used stick a couple of 4'-2tube t-5's down the sides of your tables. That way you will use 660 watts and we can compare apples to apples. If you need to run 1000watts get 2-4' 8 tube t-5's and a couple singles for the sides. VV


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## HotNSexyMILF (Nov 7, 2007)

Love the set up VV, much love, smoke on..


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## MagusALL (Nov 7, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> Yes you can. The t-5 are 40,000 lumens which is alost the same as a 400watt hid. Since you can get it closer to the plants and since the light is spread out over a larger area evenly you can match the harvest of a 600watthid. Part of the reason is because you can mix the spectrum of bulbs 1/2 red and1/2 blue, which outperforms the 'enhanced spectrum bulbs. You can see I don't have a height issue and my tables are 40" tall which saves my back. And I don't have heat issues like I would have with the 600watt hids. No separate ballast to deal with, saves another foot of height, they are simple better for any closet grow. If you have room, like I do, and you insist on having 600watts of power being used stick a couple of 4'-2tube t-5's down the sides of your tables. That way you will use 660 watts and we can compare apples to apples. If you need to run 1000watts get 2-4' 8 tube t-5's and a couple singles for the sides. VV


so would say a 600w mh/hps be equal to a t-5 setup of the same wattage? is that what you are saying? and would you need to keep a mix of spectrum bulbs in it or get different bulbs for both veg and flowering stages? most people say wattge isnt indicative of growth power and neither is lumens so what is the true indicator? spectra and intensity? id like to try out t-5s but i want to keep the growth at its max and ventilation isnt so much of a problem in my own application. but id definitely be interesting in using these if they are equal or better because they seem way easier to handle and cheaper as well.


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## MagusALL (Nov 7, 2007)

where did you get yours btw? and also, if i have pretty much 24" in closet depth will i be able to squeeze in two four bulb setups? how much should this rig cost? so i dont get ripped off.


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## GoodFriend (Nov 7, 2007)

i've been waiting for this for forever

i'll definitely be watching this thread...


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 7, 2007)

> so would say a 600w mh/hps be equal to a t-5 setup of the same wattage? is that what you are saying? and would you need to keep a mix of spectrum bulbs in it or get different bulbs for both veg and flowering stages?


What I am saying is that a 440 watt t-5 light with a mixture of red bulbs and blue bulbs, 4 of each. will outperform a 600watt hid light. If you need to spend more money to feel good then by all means add more, it won't be necessary. Keep in mind those pictures are with 20 plants on the 32" by 4' table. The bulbs all fit, red and blue same fixture. How simple can it be. Same bulbs throuoght the grow.



> most people say wattge isnt indicative of growth power and neither is lumens so what is the true indicator? spectra and intensity? id like to try out t-5s but i want to keep the growth at its max and ventilation isnt so much of a problem in my own application. but id definitely be interesting in using these if they are equal or better because they seem way easier to handle and cheaper as well.


Yeild, and while it may seem like I am a veteran I am not. I have been at this for a little over a year now and almost all of my contributions have had to do with the room and equipment, not the plants. In this case, I am giving you my opinion. I believe the t-5 will perform better than a 600watt hid light. You say you don't have a ventilation problem, you have no idea how much heat that 600 watt light will put in that closet. Read some journals, post after post, HELP MY TEMP IS 100 degrees WHAT DO I DO. Turn that 600watt furnace off or air cool it. Now what is the cost.
Soo..... if I were you I would want proof. Kinda like they say in Missouri, Don't snow me, show me. That is going to take four months of work. pretty simple, with my current set up these plants will spend 16 weeks or more from clone to harvest and as I have already stated I'm just getting my controls in place. Wednesdays are good for me and I will try to provide relevant information as we go along, with pictures of course. *I like pictures. VV*


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 7, 2007)

My current set up has only been in place for about a week now. Before that I had t-12's, a lot of them over the tables in my mother/ clone area. Last Tuesday I bought the third t-5 light, so the clones have been under it a week and a day. The first picture shows the clone, taken on 10/12, comparing the stem to a Double A battery. I just trimmed the plant as if I were ready to put it in flowering. This one happens to be WW. The next shows a plant I kept out of the last ones I put in flowering, compare to the three week newer clone nder 1 week of t-5 lighting. At that time it was one of the healthier plants thats the reason I picked it for a mother. You will notice they are just about the same height right now but the one under the t-5 has a much bigger stem. Turn the page. VV


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## butterflykisses (Nov 7, 2007)

so VV your saying i can toss my 2 600 hps and use my t5s and achieve the same result?
in flower as my 600hps will? i also grow orchids for flower shops and use the t5s for this 
i use a filter on them to reduce the light output but never thought of using them to flower my w widow u think it will work?


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 7, 2007)

Now to show how these two strains normally compare I took a picture of one widow and one crystal plant at 12 weeks of flowering. And the cola of each plant. This is the first harvest from plants that have been under t-5's for eight weeks. The next picture show a plant from table 2, four weeks of flowering compared to the 12 week flowering plant. You will notice the four week flowering plant is already taller. That is because I left it in veg longer than I usually would, while I got thing rolling. The close up show its clearly budding and it does have 8 weeks to go so I'm hoping for a nice harvest from that group. I'm also hoping it is the last group I have under the 400 watt hps.Turn the page. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 7, 2007)

What I am attempting to show in these picture is the difference in light penetration between the 400 watt hps and the 440watt t-5's. Not sure if my camera is good enough to show the difference. 
I took my EC reading before flooding with the following results. 
The mother table is at EC 1.8. My target is 1.8 to 2.0 so this one is right on. 
Table 1, clones is at EC 1.4 to 1.6. This is because I drop the EC by adding extra water when I get ready to put them in flowering. This lowers the nitrogen content a little and nitrogen blocks early root development. I haven't quite decided if I'm going to keep mothers or just take clones when I get ready to put them into flowering. I am leaning towards doing that. I want to start some blueberry so I my just let the e mothers pass into flowering to clear a spot for them.
Table 2 is ECof 2.0 to 2.2 and don three gallons of ro water. Topped it off and its now at 2.0
Table 3 is at EC 2.0 to 2.2 and down about 2 gallons. Topped it off and its at 2.0.
Table 3, 12 weeks flowering and soon to be harvested was at EC 1.6 to 1.8 and down almost three gallons of water, topped it off and added 6 oz of Ionic Bloom. Brought it to EC 2.0. Then added 4oz of Ionic Boost, Use twice a week in the last four weeks of flowering.
We had a heatwave compared to normal temperature in Michigan with extremly high Relative humidity in late September and early October. I couldn't quite swing the dehumidifier or air condiotioner this year and even with my ventilation the RH during the day was as high as 70% which I'm sure had an effect the yeild I will get from these plants. 
Now we will have the opposite problem. We will have to heat the grow room and add humidity. I was able get the humidifier last year and you have seen my sexy heater. If you don't think it can be sexy you haven't been in my grow room when the fireplace is burning, the lights are out. with the air pumps and fans making it sound more like a water fall then a grow room. The smell of fresh marijuana in the air, now that is sexy.
Thanx all for listening, GK a special thanx for the stem comparison idea, hope it shows up. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 7, 2007)

> so VV your saying i can toss my 2 600 hps and use my t5s and achieve the same result?


No, I'm saying sell them to someone at a good price, thats what I did with 2 of my 400watt hps light. Use the t-5's and achieve the same result, A more even grow as well, because the light is spread out more and less heat issues.



> in flower as my 600hps will? i also grow orchids for flower shops and use the t5s for this
> i use a filter on them to reduce the light output but never thought of using them to flower my w widow u think it will work?


Not only do I think so I intend to prove it, kinda. The kinda is that I think I have gotten a little better at growing and I know I am using more additives then I was before. So we will have to make mental adjustments because of the enhancements that don't have anything to do with the change in lights. In addition I converted all my tables to flood and drain instead of drip and I think that is giving me better results as well. I know its easier for me to work with.
I'm not going to go backwards to prove a point, I don't have stock in any light company. Mines all in Vic's work shop. I have to say I love it here. I am always open to visitors from rollitup if I feel comfortble with the person asking to visit. A couple of folks have. They think I should be proud of it, and I am. I love you man and Butterfly kisses was always one of my favorite songs. I uhh... didnt have any girls, I do like the song VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 7, 2007)

> where did you get yours btw?


I believe in doing business, as much as is economical with the local Hydro Shop. Mine does have a website, has been in business in that location since 1983 which is impressive.
It should cost $340.00 or less out he door with bulbs included, 1/2 red, 1/2 blue. If there is not a local source then by all means contact www.superiorgrowers.com They have always given me excellent advice. 




> and also, if i have pretty much 24" in closet depth will i be able to squeeze in two four bulb setups?


Sorry sometimes my sarcasm misses and I don't make myself clear. If you are talking about mounting them on the sides in addition to the 8 tube at the top then I didn't explain it very well. I was actually kind off trying to drive a point home. I have been saying the t-5 will work as good as the 600 watt hids and some folks just can't believe you can drop your electric use and get the same results. I was trying to be funny and tell them if they just had to have a higher electric bill to be happy they could add more t-5's to get closer to the same electric expense as the 600 watt hid. Now they would be able to see if there is a difference 600watt to 600watt instead of comparing it to my little 440 watt t-5. One person even tried to point out a better grow with a 1000watt hid. So I was really just trying to drive a point home not suggest you would need more than that one fixture for you closet. Remember I have that fixture over 20 plants. You can't put 20 mature plants in that closet. You will have plenty off light. And to start with you can just light 1/2 the fixture. Clones or seedling won't be big enough to need all 8 bulbs to start with. To give you an idea you could check out my DIY clone stand. There are 16 or so clones getting ready for the second transplant soon. Before that they were all in one tray, so you can see they dont take much space.


> how much should this rig cost? so i dont get ripped off.


$340.00 depending on your states sales tax rate ours is 6%. If you have to pay shipping that would probably add about $30.00 to the price. And most of the hanging hardware is already there. Couple small lengths of chain and eye hooks secured at least an inch deep into solid wood, a couple 'S' hooks for raising and lowering it. Plug it in and go. No separate ballast, etc. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 7, 2007)

If I knew how to qoute multiple posts I would thank you all individually for the kind comments. And if I knew how I would link you to the other threads instead of making you look for them. I don't know how. Please accept my thanx to everyone on rollitup that has helped me through this year. It has been a blast for this old man. Thank you all. VV


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## wafflehouselover (Nov 7, 2007)

ok guys look at it this way, i've already posted this subject before don't know where it went.

a t5 light can cover this much area ==================
a 600 watt has to be at a distance and can only cover this much because its high and reflective material works like this /\

t5 are definitely a +++++ Plus from what i've read from NGW catalog if you will please pick one up is that the t5 puts out the most "useful" light comparing to wattage that other lighting source uses.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 7, 2007)

There is that picture worth a thousnd words. Thanx waffle. VV


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## Kestas (Nov 8, 2007)

All I can say is WOW! Obvously I need to upgrade my lights, but here where I live its alot easier said than done. But here is a site where I think I may have found T5 4' 8 tube for a good price. Unless the $340 setup includes the bulbs. T5 Fluorescent Fixtures


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## AsianXpat (Nov 8, 2007)

I am completely sold on these T5 fixtures. I don't think i would bother with hps or mh bulbs at all. Thank you VV for enlightening me!! - _pun intended _

I have one question for you. do you have seperate rooms for vegetation and flowering? you need 18 hours in one, and 12 hours of light in the other, right??


Great set-up, by the way!


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 8, 2007)

those are some heavy claims VV... what's your veg' time, and how much do you yield per plant? 

Thanks in advance.


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## AsianXpat (Nov 8, 2007)

do you use soil VV?


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## AsianXpat (Nov 8, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> *how much do you yield per plant?*


I would like to know this too.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 8, 2007)

those are some heavy claims VV... what's your veg' time, and how much do you yield per plant? 

Thanks in advance.
Folks skunk is one of my original buddy list. I always checked when I saw he had posted. He is a veteran grower. 
If you are asking the length of vegging like number of days, I don't know yet. These plants all have born on dates, and I will post pictures. Some of them were clones taken 9/22 kept under t-12's, some are clones taken 10/12 under those same floros. Now those are all under the T-5's and have been for a week. All of them seem to be at the same stage of development now and are starting to grow taller. The plan is to harvest table 4 this week. Then move these clones into flowering. I'm hoping to get the fourth t-5 before I move them.
If you are asking light cycle, I'm still following the old 18/6 school. The reason I do that is simple. I haven't gotten the cloning down successfully with larger clones so I let them veg for more days. 
The yeild I get per plant is not good. That is the reason I am upgrading my lighting. That was my plan from day one. I would start with the (3)400watt all hps, then up grade to 600watt and keep 2 of the 400watt for mothers and clones. I knew I had enough room, enough height, and access to set up a good exhaust system that I wouldn't have to air cool the 400 watt lights. I would need to with the 600's. I acheived moderate success. My first large grow was 60 plants, ended up with 32 females, and a hermie, way back in the corner. With my 'great ventilation' I had a million seeds. 
I was so confused abouit this cloning for sex thing I took a few but not enough. 
I had gone on vacation and had a friend watching the op. Came back to 100temps, heater cranked up, spider mites so bad you could see the webs and fugus gnats playing dive bomber. In addition, the clones I did have from known strains instead of bag seed, looked a little 'wilty' so my friend thought he must be overwatering, did not want to be wrong about it, so he didn't water them. I got stuck in the Bahama's for two extra days. Clones not watered, in 100 degree temps is not a good thing , trust me on that one.
I found out what the problem was with the heat. My heater control, is mounted on the back, outside temperature had dropped to single digits farenhiet and I had air leaking from the outside right on that control. During the day when my friend checked the room the outside temperature was warmer so less heat was called for and temps were in range. BUT that night...was killer.
I did end up with 4oz of white widow from 2 survivors so I took that as a good sign, they did have seeds so the outcome is not really that good.
You can imagine how I felt. I went on vacation, gone 9 days, 32 sensimillia plants gone, 60 clones and seedling reduced to 10. The only good thing was the $8974.28 my wife won in the Bahamas. 
So I thought what the hell, I have the room and my premiums have sustained a lot of damage. I'll experiment with the hermie seeds, since I had 10 plants for three 20 station tables, why not. Got 17 oz off twenty plants, they hermied again. Know I know,know.
By that time I had made some progress. I had twenty or so flowering plants and not much else, couldn't afford to order more seeds, and continue making improvements so I gambled. I took clones of all of those flowering plants. I don't recommend doing this if your time is a factor. It took me longer to revert those clones back to vegging and get them to any kind of flowering height then it would have taken to order seeds and start over, about three months. 
One of my heavy hitters had mentioned, actually all of them had mentioned, getting a 'feel' for your plants, they will tell you what the need. While I don't recommend doing this with 40 or so clones at once, if you want to "get the feel for your plants", take a clone from one that has been in flowering for about 2/3 of it's normal maturing time and revert it to vegging. You will have to look closely and I gaurantee you will talk to it. You will be buddies for at least two months. I don't know of another way to get that experience.
My last two harvest have been just over a pound from 20 plants, so not quite where I want to be, adequate for my needs. This next harvest is 8 week under the t-5's 15 plants, we will see. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 8, 2007)

> here is a site where I think I may have found T5 4' 8 tube for a good price. Unless the $340 setup includes the bulbs. T5 Fluorescent Fixtures


The $340.00 includes the bulbs and the tax. The $272.00 they show says including 6400k bulbs. Those would be blue spectrum. If they will mix red and blue for that price, it looks like a good buy. Check your local shop. They can be an invaluable source of imformation. And if the price is the same you don't have to pay shipping. 
When you visit, if they have any kind of product catalog available showing the items the carry take it home with you. If its in the catalog and they don't normally stock it chances are they can get it for you, sent to their store, usually within a week, and you won't have to pay shipping. If it's a big item and your second time in the store they may ask you to pay for it when they order it so be prepared to do that ahead of time. Once you have established a relationship with them they will probably drop that requirement. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 8, 2007)

AsianXpat said:


> > I am completely sold on these T5 fixtures. I don't think i would bother with hps or mh bulbs at all. Thank you VV for enlightening me!! - _pun intended _
> >
> > I have one question for you. do you have seperate rooms for vegetation and flowering? you need 18 hours in one, and 12 hours of light in the other, right??
> >
> ...


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 8, 2007)

I am using rockwool right now. I am going back to the coco. The reason is the RO water and disposal of the used mediium. I have not reached my first goal yet, of an average 1oz per plant, or 1/2 gram per watt in the grow room. And I manicure like FDD. I don't hang them like that, I use my bud dryer, but i take every possible leaf off. 
What needs to be done for the comparison is to have someone that has the room and the 600watthid's run thier journal and see what things we can match up. It could be any kind of grow, with what ever nutes and additives, they use etc. That is the only way you will get anything resembling a side by side comparison. I'll try to hold up my side, and report any improvments as they are added. VV


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## Kestas (Nov 8, 2007)

Ya if I had a local store I would go there but I live in a tourist town right in the middle of the bible belt in Arkansas. So im pretty much gonna have to order online, but here is another site that will mix bulbs on T5 Discount Hydroponics - Pioneer T5 Lighting


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 8, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> I am using rockwool right now. I am going back to the coco. The reason is the RO water and disposal of the used mediium. I have not reached my first goal yet, of an average 1oz per plant, or 1/2 gram per watt in the grow room. And I manicure like FDD. I don't hang them like that, I use my bud dryer, but i take every possible leaf off.
> What needs to be done for the comparison is to have someone that has the room and the 600watthid's run thier journal and see what things we can match up. It could be any kind of grow, with what ever nutes and additives, they use etc. That is the only way you will get anything resembling a side by side comparison. I'll try to hold up my side, and report any improvments as they are added. VV


thanks for the lengthy response, very informative. I just can't see the t5's even taking on a 400w hid. As you're growing in rockwool, you should be aiming for 2oz per plant... although i see where you're coming from with the 0.5g per watt... which is still quite an achievement.

So are you growing sog? No, can't be sog, 16oz from 20 plants would be a very good achievement in sog. maybe you're trying to grow too many plants at once. You should be able to get the same results from 10 plants in hydro. I know that a 12 day veg' (24/0) from clone is usually sufficient to guarantee 1.5 oz per plant in hydro. A 6 day veg will only get you 0.5 oz per plant, max. Although there's a lot of leeway to varying strain types. Certain strains are just not big producers.

I have too much going on atm, or i'd take you up on the challenge. I use 400w hps for flower. I have two lights in the flowering area, but they are used for plants at different stages of development. I've used fluoro's and just never liked them... each to their own I suppose.

Good luck with the rest of your grow, VV.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 8, 2007)

> As you're growing in rockwool, you should be aiming for 2oz per plant... although i see where you're coming from with the 0.5g per watt... which is still quite an achievement.
> 
> So are you growing sog? No, can't be sog, 16oz from 20 plants would be a very good achievement in sog. maybe you're trying to grow too many plants at once.


Well.. it is my thread so lengthy responses are allowed.
I guess that depends or your definition of a sog grow. 20 plants on a 32" by 4' table would certainly qualify where I come from. 
That is a discussion I have been having with myself lately. Under the 400 watt lights I didn't feel comfortable with more than 12 plants, 1 per square foot. I think the right number may be 16. I don't have your experience so I'm still trying new things.




> You should be able to get the same results from 10 plants in hydro. I know that a 12 day veg' (24/0) from clone is usually sufficient to guarantee 1.5 oz per plant in hydro. A 6 day veg will only get you 0.5 oz per plant, max. Although there's a lot of leeway to varying strain types. Certain strains are just not big producers.


You may know this I don't. I can say mine are no where near ready to go to flowering at 12 days using the t-12's and t-8's I was using. Which is ok with my setup. I have adjusted for this wasted time in vegging by allowing more space to do it in. This is still a work in progress and the reason I finally posted one is that I think I can see the end of the tunnel. I think I know where I am and where I want to go and how I'm going to get there. whoops getting lengthy again.



> I have too much going on atm, or i'd take you up on the challenge. I use 400w hps for flower. I have two lights in the flowering area, but they are used for plants at different stages of development. I've used fluoro's and just never liked them... each to their own I suppose.


This has turned into one hasn't it. SO here is the challenge. Give me your best on cloning using rapid rooter, going into coco. Yep I'm going back to the coco. With the RO I don't have the salt problems and the coco seems to be more forgiving with fluctuations in ph. Tell us how you take your clones to have them ready to flower in 12 days. Unless something changes drastically, I can't see any reason I would need to, doesn't mean I wouldn't like to know how. Was that your post cloning for dummies? can't quite recall. I remember it being good just wasn't ready for it then.



> Good luck with the rest of your grow, VV.


Thanx. VV


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 8, 2007)

Hey there VV. I actually already wrote a lengthy reply to this only for the page to crash, and i lost it all.

I wasn't being sarcastic when I mentioned your lengthy post. In fact i was appreciative that you took the time out to lay it all out like that. Damned internet, never accounts for tone.

I'll get onto the cloning in my next post, as that was the lengthy bit... and I don't want to lose it again.


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 8, 2007)

I clone the basic way. I make the cut, never under water (stopped doing that a while back), and then I'll make a slice into the core of the stem, where I made the original cut. If that doesn't make sense I'll try to explain better.

I also don't use rooting hormone. It isn't needed. The hormone for the plant to grow roots is already present, no need to add more. The single most important factor in cloning is environment. Keep them wet and humid, with plenty of light. the more light they get the more energy they have for making root. As an example, my prop' is set 2-3 ft away from a 400w MH lamp.

I also layer the bottom of my prop with perlite. this helps to keep things humid in there. Also, filling your prop is very important. Too much space in there and there's more air movement... which will cause them to dry out quicker.


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 8, 2007)

Once, every morning, I'll clean the top of the prop' of any excess water. Then I check the weight of the cubes. Even if i know they're ok, and don't need to be dunked. I just like to take each clone out and give a brief check. 

I also mist them, once to twice a day. Keep them wet, and they can concentrate on growing root. they also don't draw as much out of the cube, so you don't need to dunk as often.

My results are usually a first sign of root in 7 days. In 9 days they are well on the way... 14 days and they are more than ready for transplant into the medium.

Another neat trick, is to trim the larger leaves. leave as little leaf as possible anyway, as the less leaf it has to support, the more it can concentrate on rooting. But the leaves you do leave on, trim down.

I hope I haven't missed anything.


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## wafflehouselover (Nov 8, 2007)

hold your left hand as if your holding a beer bottle, now if you stick a cutting through that hole that your index finger and thumb makes pull it down a bit you can easily trim of all unwanted foliage in one snip! make sure you put cut stem in first pull down until the top shot is to your middle finger(or where the first shot leaf meet the hole opening) and just snip off everything and viola a perfectly trimmed cutting.

I have to clone like 200+ plants everytime i need clone so this technic i've discovered saves me alot of time and makes my cutting neat for spacing.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 8, 2007)

Thanx for the cloning input. Please post any pictures you may have or be able to get if you can to illustrate. Skunk I didn't feel you were snapping, I thought it was funny, like something I might have said. I remember when I heard there is a big one year learning curve and I think its a little longer than that. Maybe it has just been my experience, or lack of it, I'm not sure which. If there was a chance for a problem I had that problem. I wouldn't have missed it for the world. Well maybe for the whole world. 
I do have a couple pix to share as well, thanx waffle for the picture of the difference. Slap me and call me SHirley, why hadn't I tried a picture. Seems people are a little confused about how to mix the red and blue so I thought I would try to show it with a few pictures. The first one shows 2 blue and 6 red Bulbs. You can't see the red, you see it as almost white, you can see the blue. I bought the light that way before the research was completed. I bought the next one that way as well. By the third one I had learned and so I got all blue, mixed half of them in this other fixture that is pictured. You will see four blue bulbs and a bunch of lights or reflectors. The last light picture I turned off 1/2 the fixture. And last my SEXY Heater.


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## Killer61 (Nov 8, 2007)

ya i definatly think you have a pretty sick set up good job man


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## butterflykisses (Nov 8, 2007)

hey victor give me a few months to catch up to you and ill go with u head to head with my 2 600 hps's


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 9, 2007)

wafflehouselover said:


> I have to clone like 200+ plants everytime i need clone so this technic i've discovered saves me alot of time and makes my cutting neat for spacing.


There was a time, not too long ago where I had to do that many cuttings myself. It's real hard work. we don't have clone clubs in my country, let's just say there are a lot of lazy growers.

I have pic's of clones, rooted clones etc on my hard drive... although in his profile NGT has an excellent cloning video. that walks through step by step. he does it, pretty much, the same way I do.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 9, 2007)

butterflykisses said:


> hey victor give me a few months to catch up to you and ill go with u head to head with my 2 600 hps's


I'm almost 60 years old with a bad back I don't do competitons. I do love learning experiences, especially the hands on kind where you let the one thats learning perform the task. You can watch video's, read books, until you have done it, you won't remember it.
I want to put a little plug in here. Garden Knowm book, the one I received, has a good page or two on cloning and pictures of the plants life every day. I remember when he first talked about it, when it was originally titled with the $50.00 cost instead of $100. I had a crop that started around that same time. GK got close to one half of my yield from 20 plants with just 3 plants. Sets the bar pretty high.
Butterfly, you know I'll be here. Do you have the room to do this, what can we help you with?
VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 9, 2007)

I have pic's of clones, rooted clones etc on my hard drive... although in his profile NGT has an excellent cloning video. that walks through step by step. he does it, pretty much, the same way I do.[/quote]
Please link it in a post here. I haven't watched his yet. I do remember he posted one. I think at the time he and another member where having a pissin contest, NonGreen was right, I just wanted to stay out of it and I wasn't set up to need clones ready to flower every two weeks. 
Maybe thats the difference. I don't want them to be ready for four weeks. Thats the rotation I have. We could probably list a few hundred cloning methods.
The point I want to make is this. It is ok to try and fail. I find comfort in little successes. First harvest, first clones, first table, only modified it three times. Whoops it was four forgot that stupid play with the 1/4" water lines. That one cost me like $100.00 when I really couldn't afford it, wife bailed my out again, I love my wife. 
Not trying is a success of sorts, you don't have to add another failure and you will never have any other success. I love you man. VV


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 9, 2007)

https://www.rollitup.org/z/nongreenthumb/ here you go. 

Thanks for the love VV, I'm trying to figure out a way of saying the same thing back without sounding like a homo (not that there's anything wrong with that, so long as its behind closed doors and I don't have to see it).


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## butterflykisses (Nov 9, 2007)

thanks vv i didnt mean a compitition just same strain we can figure out the details my husband thinks im crazy anyhow. and i cant thank you GUYS enough for all your help on my inside growing we have grown outside for years never inside till rollitup. i know about the bad back thing i have an ans spinal cord stimulator implanted! ugh mutiple back surgerys as well. but i like u and think it would be fun


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 9, 2007)

I like company. I did transplant 16 clones yesterday and will start harvesting table 4 over the next two days. I picked up a couple of things today. These wire ties were less than $13.00 for 2300, 1000 uses in a grow room, and a little something for my self. A small reward for reaching another goal. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 11, 2007)

What a difference a day makes. I started the harvest of table four, 9 down 6 to go. I have been averaging a little over 100 grams wet, not quite a dry oz/plant. Maybe the last six will pull it up, we will see.
I decided to see what the tables would look like with fewer plants. I moved15 plants from table 3 to table four, leaving the other 5 on table 3. Started moving some off table 2 to table 3. I ended up spreading the fourty plants from those two tables over the three tables instead. Of course this will mean I will have to make some other adjustment, what they hell do I do with the 20 plants I was going to move to flowering?? And the 16 plants I just transplanted ready to go into vegging and the other 15 clones I still have to transplant. Any ideas??

These are pictures of what those tables look like now, with 12, 13 and 15 plants. A bud on a flowering plant and a few crystal buds getting ready to dry. Turn the page. VV


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 11, 2007)

Hey VV, with every crop I grow I have background plants that are never meant to give a decent yield.

Admittedly, 40 is a fair amount to just leave in the background, but hey... it's all bud. A lot of the time I'll turn the background plants into oil anyway, only really save the tightest nugs, or give them to my friends... who don't know the difference anyway. They're also good for experiments.

If you're just flowering with the fluoros, and with that many plants... I'd say 100g average (wet) per plant is a good yield. Good to see some honesty, there's too many people on here that exaggerate their yields in an effort to impress others that have also lied about theirs.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 11, 2007)

This is a picture of a plant that has been flowering for 8 weeks beside one that has been flowering for just four weeks. You may notice the one the right (four weeks flowering) is slightly taller. This 30" plant height is not alarming, the sparse looking plant is. Thats why I decided to spread them out more. They haven't grown much taller in the last week. Now if they fill the buds in They will be awesome. Top view of the two together, and then separatley. Lots to do tomorrow. Good night all. VV


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 11, 2007)

Yes, cramming in too many plants will shield parts of the plant from the light. So they won't grow. But you don't need me to tell you that, you've just told me... lol.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 11, 2007)

Thanx for the response. The number is actually smaller that I would have to move. 15 moved would do it. I may just start getting pickier with the clones. I can still hang for a few days without making a decision. I have seen several people comment about growing fewer plants with larger yields per plant. If I can get the same type of total yield off 12-16 plants that I get off 20 I would be silly not to. What could I lose, 15 clones, oh well. First major grow I had about 12 plants per table, probably 20 varieties, it was a nightmare. By the way, both of those plants the 4 week flowering and 8 week flowering are white widow. The four week flowering one reminds me of the widow I had that first major grow. Ended up with one major cola, wet weight of 94 grams. I want that back. Been a long time getting there. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 11, 2007)

My Sea of Green experiment has been educational. At least I know I can manage to keep 60 plants in flowering, if I chose to, and I may. I might change the size of the tables a little, may even think about converting one to dwc, haven't tried that yet. I do know I want to make a change with the reses and tables. With my drip I had the reses suspended from the table, didn't need the larger res. Much more convienient. Well, I really do need to go get some sleep, still have 6 plants to finish...uhh today. VV


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 11, 2007)

You could always cut down your pot sizes... although in soil I'm not sure how far you can push this. I know in coco coir, it's possible to get a 2oz plant from a 500ml container.

Trouble with this is, that the plants still grow the same size, so now instead of 4 beneath the lights I have only 6 good ones, with another 2 behind that will become fair sized, at least an oz. So, let's just say 7, instead of 4 which is still good.

It's all in my sig'.


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## dankie (Nov 11, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Hey VV, with every crop I grow I have background plants that are never meant to give a decent yield.
> 
> Admittedly, 40 is a fair amount to just leave in the background, but hey... it's all bud. A lot of the time I'll turn the background plants into oil anyway, only really save the tightest nugs, or give them to my friends... who don't know the difference anyway. They're also good for experiments.
> 
> If you're just flowering with the fluoros, and with that many plants... I'd say 100g average (wet) per plant is a good yield. Good to see some honesty, there's too many people on here that exaggerate their yields in an effort to impress others that have also lied about theirs.


Are you saying 26.5 lb's isn't possible under 2 flashlights?


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 11, 2007)

dankie said:


> Are you saying 26.5 lb's isn't possible under 2 flashlights?


He is being sarcastic as all hell, but in good taste. At the time we had several newbies that were going to tear the world a new ass. He wanted to show them how extreme you could get, at least that was how I interpreted it. Sometimes you just gotta be there when it happens in order to get it. And now you knowm. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 11, 2007)

Yes skunk I saw the thread and read parts of it. It's just beyond the scope of my current knowledge base. I have only been growing for about 1 1/2 years with a very limited budget, at least what I call limited. I'm sure if I were to gather all the receipts for everything I have done its probably $5000. or maybe a little more. But that does include the necessary adjustments in the electric service and other constrution. Those are Capitol in nature and will stay with the house, so they aren't really a part of the 'costs of growing'. I had done these kinds of things before, operating with small budgets and trying to stay in business sucks, this is the first time I have done it for 'myself'. To me that includes my family, for they are certainly a part of 'myself' although not by blood. 
I do have a fair understanding of the physical plant, I haven't had to 'hire' anyone, I was able to do it all myself.
My goal was to produce the income necessary for me to do nothing but this consistantly. I have been fortunate this year, my wife has won a few fair amounts of money. This allowed me to make the investment necessary without producing the income while I was learning. Now I know where I am at, I know I can produce enough with what I have in place. The next area I have to improve in is knowledge of the plants. I want to know why SeeMoreBuds Roots look better then mine, so I know if it matters, maybe its just my hydro compared with his soil. This picture is of two plants, grown for the same amount of time under the exact same conditions. I want to be able to identify the one on the right and get rid of the smaller ones before they get to this point. Learning these types of things is what it is about now. 
And doesn't that bud grown under the floros look ok. That is the first crop to be under 1/2 red, 1/2 blue. They already look like they have as much bud on them as the ones I am harvesting and they have four weks to go. I expect the next harvest to be bigger and better than this one. I want to constantly improve. Happiness is a Journey not a destination. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 11, 2007)

Soo.... spent Saturday and part of Sunday harvesting the first plants that were under the t-5's for eight weeks. That is before I checked farther and started mixing 1/2 red, 1/2 blue. 15 plants and it looks like I am short of my goal again. I may meet one goal, 1 0z/Plant. If i did this correctly, here is how it lays out. 1335 wet grams/4 (you will normally lose 75% of weight during the drying and curing process) leaves 444 grams. dry weight. That is just short of a pound from fifteen plants grown with rh in the 70's and temps low 80's for almost two weeks. Its real close to an oz / plant. If you count the oz as 28.8grams and thats what it really is, its just short. I weigh mine out at 28.4. If any one needs close ups to check my trim please just ask. It did overfill my bud dryer just a little. Guess if I improve I'll have to make a bigger one, oh pity me? VV


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## skunkman98536 (Nov 12, 2007)

thanks for the info victor! ill just go to lowes and make a lil room i have a huge spair bedroom i use for my guitar playing and ganja growing haha thanks bro!


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## HotNSexyMILF (Nov 12, 2007)

Yummy... =)


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## weediscool (Nov 12, 2007)

that looks siiiiiiiick. i swear to god i wish i could trade my MH for t5s


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## REAPER (Nov 12, 2007)

nah you wanna usa both t5'd and a mh WEEDISCOOL because they each put out different light spectrums! just got my computer working again so ill be getting my pics up soon. for now im using my nintendo wii!


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 12, 2007)

REAPER said:


> nah you wanna usa both t5'd and a mh WEEDISCOOL because they each put out different light spectrums! just got my computer working again so ill be getting my pics up soon. for now im using my nintendo wii!


I disagree. You want a mh and a hps...


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 12, 2007)

REAPER said:


> > nah you wanna usa both t5'd and a mh WEEDISCOOL because they each put out different light spectrums!
> 
> 
> You have simple missed one of the key features of the T-5 lights. I USE RED SPECTRUM AND BLUE SPECTRUM IN THE SAME FIXTURE. NO SEPARATE LIGHT IS REQUIRED.
> ...


Sounds good. Put them in a journal. I'll come look at them.

The T-5 can put out both light spectrums. The MH only does one and the HPS only does one. I do know you can get switchable Ballast and combinations. If 1355 'wet' grams doesn't establish the credability of the T-5's nothing I can say will either. 
Think about this for just a minute. Lets pretend you are a new grower. You can buy a mh light and all the stuff you need with it and then within four weeks do it again with another light fixture and all the stuff that goes with it OR you can buy a T-5, MIX THE BULBS, and have all the best.
To start with you can turn on just 1/2 the fixture so you would have 220 watts of power being used instead of 400 watts. 20,000 lumens right on top of the plants spread out evenly OR 43,000 lumens two feet away from the plants with a separate ballast. Just the logistics makes it the right thing to do.
I haven't heard anyone say the T-5's aren't at least good for vegging so your risk is zero. If you are not happy with the results by all means buy the 400 watt hps furnace for flowering instead of another T-5. All the benefits will be apparent to you IF you have ever used the 400watt hps lights. I HAVE. That cola is a picture I posted here. It should have as much to say as my 1000 word answers do. Here is what it looks like with vegging plants. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 12, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> I disagree. You want a mh and a hps...


That is the reason to get the T-5, you want a mh and an hps, this is how you get it and now you knowm. Thanx Skunk. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 12, 2007)

Thanx, has four weeks to go app. VV


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 12, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> That is the reason to get the T-5, you want a mh and an hps, this is how you get it and now you knowm. Thanx Skunk. VV


I've been thinking for a while about adding some blue to the flowering area... i used to rotate the bulbs on other grows as my fixtures can take both. i could do it now too, only I have to climb and crawl around in a tiny loft area to work with my plants in flower... good job I'm flexible... so it's easier to do it automatically. But, some side lighting maybe, would be a good idea. I'll be saying the same thing next week.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 12, 2007)

Its amazing. All the reasons the T-5's are better for new growers are the drawbacks from the hid lights. Look, I have 10' high ceilings in my flowering area, I can put a ladder between the tables and change light bulbs. Why would I want to. In his excellent book, "Integral Hydroponics" Edition 2, G. Low makes a statement I try to remember. The paragraph has its own sub-title one we all recognize: KISS-KEEP IT SIMPLE. 
He lists the seven things all plants need to have, the FACT that they MUST BE IN BALANCE. The last sentence in the second paragraph says, "Get all of them right and you are 99.9% on the way to being _*a very successful indoor gardener. " 
*_I figured that meant the light wouldn't matter much if I couldn't control temperature and humidity. So I bought what I thought, and still do was the most light I could afford to buy three of, and concentrated on trying to get the other things done right. I figured if I could use 3-400 watt hps lights, with out having to cool them separate from the rest of the air handling system, when I could afford the 600watts with air cooling I would be fine. I could have bought two 600watthps that operate off 1 ballast, flanges attached ready to air cool for $650.00. When we discussed it further I chose the T-5's. Same results, less hassle, better light. I figured when the owners son was willing to stake his reputation on them, I would be willing to try them. I am not sorry that I did. The results, from a new grower, speak for themselves and the pictures shout it out. VV


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 13, 2007)

I'm not sure VV... I'd have to grow more plants to get a similar yield. The T5 fixtures would cover my loft area... they need to be kept too close to the plants... there's a few things I don't like about them.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 13, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> > I'm not sure VV... I'd have to grow more plants to get a similar yield.
> 
> 
> NOt sure what you mean. If you would have to grow more plants to get a similar yeild then the ballgame should be over. If you mean you would have to grow more plants that get a similar yeild in order to be satisfied that they work, stick around
> ...


This is just plain wrong skunk, They don't *have to be kept* too close to the plants, they can be kept closer to the plants. That is the reason 3-600 watt hid's is better than 2-1000watt lights. Because they can be kept closer to the plants they give more lumens to the plants because of the inverse square rule. I loaned out My Marijuana Growers Bible or I'd qoute Jorge on it. 
The 400watt hid's put out 3000 more lumens than the t-5's. Since they have to be further away from the plants they don't get as much usable light, particularly the ones that are farthest from the light which causes that canopy effect.
Even if you were to raise the t-5 to the same height as you *have to keep* the 400 watt, they would still perform better. Both Spectrums of light spread over all the plants with less heat issues.
Look, my grow area doesn't have the problems a closet grow does. I have a fair size room for a one person grow op, over 100 plants in there, and I still have room for a fireplace,chair and computer. I don't have to air cool the 400 watt light, I have the space. It came with the house I didn't build it.
Folks growing in closets will have to air cool the light. From 250watthid's up, they will need at least a 4" duct, fan, inlet and outlet, there goes the *stealth.* It will give them one advantage. They will learn how to be contortionist trying to move around in there to make adjustment, maybe you can show them how.

And then we come to the issue of height. How can anyone wanting to get any kind of yeild give up two feet of plant height ?? Why make it necessary for a new grower to learn LST, FIM or topping, super croppin or lollipopping, no wonder they don't have time to find out about SOG AND SCROG. 

I went through it first, I didn't start with the T-5's, I should have. And any new grower should? Yes, if they have the room for one they should. If they don't they will be using 'compact florescent lights'. Not a thing wrong with that, I have a book that shows how the author grew 8oz of dry bud with 8-42 watt cfl's and three plants. CFL's work. And his total investment was less than $100. 

Remember I am not an experienced grower. My clones are not ready to go in flowering 2 weeks after I cut them, I only know about the physical plant. You have to have space for the physical plant. Why take it up with a light you need to air cool?? Because it _sounds cool_ and thats what everyone uses?? Why create a problem when you could get more usable light for less?

I remember when I planned my air handling system. I spent a couple hundred on it, figuring by going to the 8", I would be able to just hook the lights to it when I could afford the 600watt lights. Wrong! I would have to install another 8" line for those lights separate from the exhaust and intake. Since I have the room to do this its not a big problem. Spending the extra $200.00 for a $150.00 inline fan and some ducting doesn't appeal to me now. I could use that money to get a dehumidifier or air conditioner. Either one would have given me more yeild on this crop. 10% improvment would have put me above goal, 1 oz per plant SOG grow. That is a twelve week flowering cycle not 8 so its not great, it ain't bad either.

Then there is the issue of the separate ballast, I know I have mentioned it, lets talk about that. What does that require? Well, it is heavy, and loud and hot. Most of them provide you with a cord that is too short, either from the plug to the ballast or from the ballast to the light. The cords won't be in the way if you just run them over to the wall and up the wall and across the ceiling and down to the light. But that ballast has to go somewhere doesn't it. Of course it is a part of the t-5 fixture, and the fifteen foot cord plugs in to the closest duplex, done. Figure out where to put the ballast? Don't let it get wet, and don't let a drop of water hit the bulb. Oh thats right we have a shield on it so we can air cool it. Maybe if we put it on something it will deaden the sound, no that would just make it viberate through the house. 
Well, we can think about that one while we whack a hole in the ceiling and floor so we can cool this goddam 600watt furnace.

And none of that adresses the *Stealth *issue. Now get this, I live about 35' from the road. There is a window in my grow room that can be seen from the road. I have it covered with a mini blind. The t-5 light comes on in that area at 5:00 am and goes out at 11:00 pm. NO worry's. It looks like I have a Flourescent light on in my garage. Try that, or opening the closet door while some one else is in the house, with an hid.

There is one thing I don't like about the T-5 Light fixture. Because its as long as my table, I often bumb my head on the damn thing when I bend over to look at a plant. Sometimes you have get hit in the head so you'll pay attention next time I suppose. But, I haven't burned my hand, I'd rather not get burned. VV


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 13, 2007)

Well I have built in ballasts in my HID lamps... makes the light heavier, but it's tucked away nicely... and I have 800w of HPS (2x400) in the flowering area, and it doesn't get that hot. I can get my plants to around 8" below the bulbs... and after this experiment is over I will go into SOG growing.

The light from a HPS merely diminishes by half 2ft down... so from a 400w, 2ft below will register like a 200w. What stops light from reaching down there is bushiness, which is why we trim all dead leaves. The real reason we don't get much bud that low down is because the buds branches are shaded by branches above. regular trimming can help ensure better light access to branches lower down the plant. If that's what you want. Trimming the lower branches merely puts growth into the upper branches.

I know you've done both VV, but did you really give HPS a chance?

For me it has nothing to do with cool. If you're confident that you can achieve the same results with fluoro's as you can a HID, then I hope you succeed... but I will need more convincing.

Babygro used to say much the same as you... then he disappeared before he could back up his claims with evidence. I'd love for you to be right though, just need more convincing.

How long do you veg' your clones for? So, you're getting a dry oz per plant in soil, from seed? After 4 weeks veg'?


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 13, 2007)

I just timed out on a response, I'll have to answer later. VV


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 13, 2007)

know the feeling buddy... 6,000 words gone just like that. Makes me feel like bursting into tears sometimes... can't bear to look at the thing for a while.

Which allows me time to add something else that i thought of.

Fluoro's may have the right spectrum, but do they have the right INTENSITY that makes potent trichomes?

Trichomes, particularly potent ones, are a plants defence mechanism against light intensity... fluoro's do not offer any real intensity. If they did, they would be hotter. Just a thought. maybe enough to kick start you into rewriting that reply.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 13, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> > Well I have built in ballasts in my HID lamps... makes the light heavier, but it's tucked away nicely... and I have 800w of HPS (2x400) in the flowering area, and it doesn't get that hot. I can get my plants to around 8" below the bulbs... and after this experiment is over I will go into SOG growing.
> 
> 
> I hung mine from the ceiling, thats where I had the space and heat rises. I have 1320. I can get mine within 2" without burning them. And the SOG grow just means your plants are about the same height and you trim the bottom. That is what this one was.
> ...


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 13, 2007)

You would have to judge the product for your self. Stop by any time you are in the neighborhood. I will be in Florida the first week of January, and then Jamaca for a day or so before flying back so skip that time frame. LOL VV


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 13, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> You would have to judge the product for your self. Stop by any time you are in the neighborhood. I will be in Florida the first week of January, and then Jamaca for a day or so before flying back so skip that time frame. LOL VV


Unfortunately, I live in england, uk, and have a very young family... I'd love to stop by, maybe one day.


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## GoodFriend (Nov 13, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> You would have to judge the product for your self. Stop by any time you are in the neighborhood. I will be in Florida the first week of January, and then Jamaca for a day or so before flying back so skip that time frame. LOL VV


 
jamaca!

only for a day?!?


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 13, 2007)

These are picture of a widow clone. The leaves first showed some deformity around three weeks. Not all of the leaves, just a few. Soo.. I trimmed them off, things started looking better. Then worse. And worse. Even though the rest of them look ok. Hmmm... ??VV Turn the page.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 13, 2007)

Soo.. this is what it looked like yesterday just before I cut it down. I thought I might get an answer by looking at the roots. I don't see a problem there. That is little rockwwol cubes being held together by the roots. ANy ideas??? VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 13, 2007)

lumberjack_ian said:


> jamaca!
> 
> only for a day?!?


 Here's how it lays out. For a few years we have taken a kinda 'family vacation. Differnt family members join us, last year we went to the Bahamas. My wife signed up for a College class in Florida that starts the Thursday after our vacation ends. When she started to check motel rates and rental cars, it was cheaper for her to go on a three day cruise and take me along. Its a tough decision. A cruise to Jamaca with my wife or fly home alone, I'll be in Jamaca for a day or so. VV


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 13, 2007)

Could be a few things VV. Either Genetics... PH fluctuation... Over Watering... or potassium deficiency... 

Although i doubt it's the last one.


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 13, 2007)

Do you have mottled leaves on that plant VV? Looks like insect damage. I'm seeing a lot of that just lately, i have them too.

This isn't the reason for the hooked leaves, by the way.


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## GoodFriend (Nov 13, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> Here's how it lays out. For a few years we have taken a kinda 'family vacation. Differnt family members join us, last year we went to the Bahamas. My wife signed up for a College class in Florida that starts the Thursday after our vacation ends. When she started to check motel rates and rental cars, it was cheaper for her to go on a three day cruise and take me along. Its a tough decision. A cruise to Jamaca with my wife or fly home alone, I'll be in Jamaca for a day or so. VV


completely understandable

enjoy you're vaca friend!

i'm going to florida for the first week of DEC for a holiday with my fiance... we miss eachother by a month

haha...
take care friend

good growing


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 13, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Could be a few things VV. Either Genetics... PH fluctuation... Over Watering... or potassium deficiency...
> 
> Although i doubt it's the last one.


All of these widows are decendats from the original 2 plants I had started as seed last July or August. They all get feed at the same time using the same nutes. It could be overwatering, usually don't have strong healthy roots and overwatering rockwool it hard to do. Any way I still need to pare down 15 or so clones so its gone now. VV


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 13, 2007)

You know VV, it could still be genetics. With a mother plant constantly being cut, this can lead to stress, and her producing freakish branches. Cut these branches, and they grow freaky leaves. I've seen it on my own crops after successive cloning. Which is why i only keep mom plants for around 10 weeks, but even then it can still happen.

Which seedbank is the widow from?


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 13, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> > Do you have mottled leaves on that plant VV?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 13, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> > You know VV, it could still be genetics. With a mother plant constantly being cut, this can lead to stress, and her producing freakish branches. Cut these branches, and they grow freaky leaves. I've seen it on my own crops after successive cloning. Which is why i only keep mom plants for around 10 weeks, but even then it can still happen.
> 
> 
> I would agree although we have had folks say you can keep mothers for long periods of time. The difference here is this group of plants was the first group I was going to keep as mothers. None of my plants has ever contributed more than two sets of clones. One just as I put them in flowering and again two weeks later.
> ...


 i used t have the name in bookmarks. Its whatever one has the girl with the leaves over her tits, don't know the name. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 14, 2007)

Ok so here is the deal. These three plants are all in the same batch. 3 different profiles. The first one I call the Spread Offense. It does have a main cola, the side branches never gotup to meet it, they are kinda spreading. 
The second one doesn't seem to have a main cola its a doughnut offense, a big hole in the center. The third is the profile I am looking for with this strain. Tight, together. This is what the first two I grew looked like. Only they were much taller. I didn't have the early rh and temp problems as bad then. 
The next picture is one that has been in flowring not quite 5 weeks, and that same plant next to one of the ones that have been in flowering for 8 weeks. Notice the younger plant is taller. Health of both plants is decent. Turn the page. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 14, 2007)

Here is a shot from the top, Spread, Doughnut and what I want. Look at the stems. Stunted early growth they have never overcome. This accounts for the low production, not quite an oz per plant. The stems of the next batch look better and the plant height seems to reflect this. Now If the harvest from those matches the height I will be one happy camper. I included a cola close up just because... I love you man. VV


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## BSIv2.0 (Nov 14, 2007)

*Nice looking plants there, VV.*


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 15, 2007)

Which ones?? They little short loaded with bud ones, or the ones that have 8 weeks to go? If the fill out to match their height it would be awsome. And the little ones are a 1/2 way decent example of a closet sog grow. Between 18" and 25", 8" pot height, this happens to be flood and drian, t-5 8tube, almost 1oz per plant.
The next ones or closer to thirty inches. Seems to me the best of the widow I ever had as far as the main cola, was around 36" at harvest. With the t-5's, allowing for res height etc. you could duplicate this in a closet 6' high easily.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 16, 2007)

Quick Review. I have a table of clones, 21 of them I was planning on moving into flowering last week. After deciding to put less plants on each flowering table, these will have to be held back which is fine with my set up. I can let them reach their maximum height of 42" no problem. Some of these were cloned on 9/22, some on10/12. I introduced the t-5 light over them on 10/29. I don't want them to just sit there and overgrow themselves. I want to try and train them a little. They are probale going to be here for three more weeks before flowering. Sooo..... I am going to turn them from this......to this.. Turn the page. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 16, 2007)

These are WW with a dob 9/22 and then 10/12. And a shot of the tops. The crystal and the ice clones... Turn the page. V


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## LoudBlunts (Nov 16, 2007)

victor i need to talk to you about something.....you gon be on a for min?


im bout to send you a pm


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 16, 2007)

You can see they have nice veggetative growth. What I want is for the light to reach the budsites. So I clip the shit out of them. I got the information that I use as a basis for the trimfrom a post MOgie had made, I printed it out and refer to it. "Show me how to do early vegetative pruning and fim" in FAQ.
Here's how it goes. This is a front and top shot, before and after. I did leave a few lower branches I might not have, in case I decide to clone them before flowering. From the top you can see all the bud sites that were hidden. The vegetative growth will return. We'll check on them again in about a week. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 16, 2007)

LoudBlunts said:


> victor i need to talk to you about something.....you gon be on a for min?
> 
> 
> im bout to send you a pm


 Ok you could just ask here if you want?? VV


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## LoudBlunts (Nov 16, 2007)

i dont wanna pollute your thread, ya feel?

almost like disrespect....lol


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 18, 2007)

Soo.. I trimmed the plants a little, here is what they looked like, what they started like and the recovery process 2 days later. VV


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 18, 2007)

That's a good growth rate for 48 hours... what would you say VV, around 3" per plant?


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## wbinwv (Nov 18, 2007)

Very nice VV!!!!


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 18, 2007)

I would have to go back and check. I haven't moved the light that much, its probably the angle of the picture. What I am looking for here is to get the bottom branches to catch up as much as they will without topping the plant. May not be possible with the ice, unless I force flowering now, which I am considering. They are 17" to 18" now. Its something I have been considering since I checked the light leak out that window with the t-5's. In my area the number 1 reason cops start to suspect a grow is a covered window. With the t-5's I dont have too so I could put four tables 2 x 2 all at that end, lol and build something else for the clones.rofl I'm working on a design now. I'll post it if I do it. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 18, 2007)

wbinwv said:


> Very nice VV!!!!


Thanx How is yours going?? VV


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## wbinwv (Nov 18, 2007)

go check my journal, they are on day 22 of veg and both plants are topped and stand 8 inches tall. They are at 7 nodes. I was planning on using CFL's throughout but I may try and build my own HPS light before I flower.


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## indica44 (Nov 20, 2007)

I just joined victorVicious an the reason I joined was I googled growing with T5 flourescents an wala I found a journal on it man I am stoked. I am getting two eight bulb fixtures from a company called sunsystem tek-light nine bend reflector made of German 95% reflective aluminum they say the light output is 300 % higher than with no reflector I am going to read an follow what you are doing except the first grow will be in soiless mix with organic food


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## donnieosmond (Nov 20, 2007)

Nice journal VV! It's about time you took a break from real life and joined us in virtual reality. I love the new craftsman chair, it's nice. I never noticed that the wood cart you have to hold things is the same cart I used to have a long time ago for an "entertainment center" lol. Is yours really old too?


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## indica44 (Nov 20, 2007)

I never here you say you are checking your ph level in my experience not keeping the ph a the correct level albeit they will still grow but not as big as they can get. Co2 you should introduce co2 into your grow that will definitely increase the yields per plant. Another thing you might try is fliping your clones right into budding as soon as they root filling your table with 3or 4 inch rock wool cubes making a tight SOG. make sure you always soak the rockwool cubes before you use them because they come with a high ph level


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## indica44 (Nov 20, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> Soo.... spent Saturday and part of Sunday harvesting the first plants that were under the t-5's for eight weeks. That is before I checked farther and started mixing 1/2 red, 1/2 blue. 15 plants and it looks like I am short of my goal again. I may meet one goal, 1 0z/Plant. If i did this correctly, here is how it lays out. 1335 wet grams/4 (you will normally lose 75% of weight during the drying and curing process) leaves 444 grams. dry weight. That is just short of a pound from fifteen plants grown with rh in the 70's and temps low 80's for almost two weeks. Its real close to an oz / plant. If you count the oz as 28.8grams and thats what it really is, its just short. I weigh mine out at 28.4. If any one needs close ups to check my trim please just ask. It did overfill my bud dryer just a little. Guess if I improve I'll have to make a bigger one, oh pity me? VV


 
Is this under one fixture of 8 bulbs? An if so that is good weight for around 40000 lumens.


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## mastakoosh (Nov 20, 2007)

this thread is very detailed and informative. VV how much is your t-5 setup? i am looking into the pro's and cons of hps's versus flouro's. thanks for this great thread and the plants look awesome.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 20, 2007)

indica44 said:


> > I never here you say you are checking your ph level in my experience not keeping the ph a the correct level albeit they will still grow but not as big as they can get.
> 
> 
> Soo... after reading this thread and not seeing ph mention much you think I need these instructions, Please. I have installed an RO system and can fill my reservoirs by turning a switch.
> ...


Your post really confuses me. I am going back to use coco because I LIKE IT BETTER. PERIOD. In addition to that I was growing 20 plants on those tables and have dropped it to fifteen for this time and 12 for the next ones and you intend to instruct me on ph, co2, and sog grow including ph for the cubes.???...... which I have stated I'm not going to use.
If I remember correctly Al B is getting 13 to 16 oz in his sog grow, that is what I started to set up. Mine is a different strain and takes longer to flower. Can you get better production, certainly, and I intend to. I am not going to start over with ph 101. 
Maybe I missed something here. What was your point?? VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 20, 2007)

indica44 said:


> Is this under one fixture of 8 bulbs? An if so that is good weight for around 40000 lumens.


Thanx, and yes it is under 1-4'- 8 bulb t-5 fixture 1/2 red and 1/2 blue. $340.00 out the door locally. Before any one buy's one please check further into the led's that nowstopwhining posted. I did some more checking. The information available says you only need 150watts of led's to replace a 600watthid. That one was posted Sunday, you know how it is old people forget and I couldn't rep him. LED's was in the title. Depends onthe watts of what now stopwhining posted. 4' by 1' grid was like $249.00. Check the watts, this may be a super buy. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 20, 2007)

mastakoosh said:


> this thread is very detailed and informative. VV how much is your t-5 setup? i am looking into the pro's and cons of hps's versus flouro's. thanks for this great thread and the plants look awesome.


Thank you. $340.00 locally. I believe invisiting the local grow shop if possible. Don't miss the info on led's. I am starting to check them out. Menards even has some, not the right ones. It won't be long. VV


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 21, 2007)

I have to admit that using fluoro's in veg' is getting more appealing to me. plants naturally need less light during this period, although the more you have the quicker they grow... but once you have a system down, it should be worth the extra wait.

One concern, how long do they take to pre-flower in veg'?


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## indica44 (Nov 21, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> Your post really confuses me. I am going back to use coco because I LIKE IT BETTER. PERIOD. In addition to that I was growing 20 plants on those tables and have dropped it to fifteen for this time and 12 for the next ones and you intend to instruct me on ph, co2, and sog grow including ph for the cubes.???...... which I have stated I'm not going to use.
> If I remember correctly Al B is getting 13 to 16 oz in his sog grow, that is what I started to set up. Mine is a different strain and takes longer to flower. Can you get better production, certainly, and I intend to. I am not going to start over with ph 101.
> Maybe I missed something here. What was your point?? VV


 sorry for the confusion VV by the time I was done reading last nite I wasnt making much sence either. It seems to me by reading your journal through that you are realy wanting to hit the the 1 gram per watt. the way I have seen that done is with a sog method an the clones packed tight and no vegging when roots take flip them to 12 on 12 off that is a way of getting 1 gram per watt. And when attempting that you need to use rockwool the way you are growing by vegging for period of time you are getting realy good weight almost as good as it gets I have seen grows where there is 12 1ooo HPS lamps an growing a heavy indica an they only get 1.2 pounds per 1000 watt of lights they grow in soiless mix So I feel the only way you can increase your yield is with Co2. And when I think about it PH is not much of a factor if your getting 440 grams dry weight. It would not hurt to take the odd PH reading just to make sure since the testing an leveling out supplies are not expensive you should invest. If your plants get sick at least with a test kit you could elimnate it as the problem if it is not PH. If you want a heavy producing strain BIG BUD from The sensi seed bank it will blow your mind the size of these babies


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## indica44 (Nov 21, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> Thanx, and yes it is under 1-4'- 8 bulb t-5 fixture 1/2 red and 1/2 blue. $340.00 out the door locally. Before any one buy's one please check further into the led's that nowstopwhining posted. I did some more checking. The information available says you only need 150watts of led's to replace a 600watthid. That one was posted Sunday, you know how it is old people forget and I couldn't rep him. LED's was in the title. Depends onthe watts of what now stopwhining posted. 4' by 1' grid was like $249.00. Check the watts, this may be a super buy. VV


 You should check out this procyon-100 LED Grow Lights - HomeGrownLights.com


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 21, 2007)

indica44 said:


> > And when I think about it PH is not much of a factor if your getting 440 grams dry weight. It would not hurt to take the odd PH reading just to make sure since the testing an leveling out supplies are not expensive you should invest. If your plants get sick at least with a test kit you could elimnate it as the problem if it is not PH.
> 
> 
> Yes, well actually I have 2 of them which I received along with my first 'Drip' table in July of 06'. Thats how I knew I needed the RO system.
> ...


Take a look at Wafflehouse Lover's Thread, they are some big buds. No, that wasn't my purpose. I wanted a good producer, of course. The important thing to me was to be able to do this as a hobby. Small amount of folks that buy quality at a good price. Low traffic.
I know I say I don't know about the plants, I'm still learning, maybe thats where you got the idea I don't know anything. lol  VV

SKUNK, I don't even look. All of them are clones, all female. Do you use this as an indication of something?? When it was important, my old eyes couldn't see it, now that I have some magnifiers I could check, and its no longer important to me. I have completed the current changes in the set up and hope to post a few new things later today. Right now I have to go clean the last res and get it back in place so it can fill while the lights are out. Thanx VV


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## indica44 (Nov 21, 2007)

also check out procyon 100 at LED Grow Lights - HomeGrownLights.com an the ufo at he hid hut these units are a but pricey but make some wicked claims


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## indica44 (Nov 21, 2007)

I thought i already posted this but what is the name of your fixture. I am getting the sunsystem tek light 4 ft 8 lamp 9 bend deflector made out of german 95% reflective aluminum they claim that there is a 300% higher light output then with no reflector. they are calling them the rolls royce of t5 fixtures I am getting two of them right after X mas. I see to that they can be hung vertically as well as horizontal. I was thinking of hanging two of the 4bulb fixtures on a almost vertical postion making more side coverage. Having one eight bulb fixture an two 4 bulb fixtures on each side angled for better side light penatration just a thought still up in the air about that one


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 21, 2007)

Hey VV, I was talking about from seed... i'll be in a bit of a rush trying to bring my next crop through after the root development thread. I'm going to have a couple of weeks break for x-mas before starting again, maybe... i think.

Anyway, i was just wondering if you knew how long a seed plant took to preflower under the T5's. I suppose it doesn't really matter, I'll just end up using mh anyway.

happy growing... VV


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## Serotonin (Nov 21, 2007)

VV, how much do you pay for the T5's? I'm looking at possibly scoring some for vegetating but not sure on the quantity. I'm looking to germ and veg ~10 plants... also what are some good places to order or do you buy locally? 

The heat output is my primary concern and appeal to these lights... I just bought a grow tent and was thinking of putting a small shelf in there and veg'ing plants under the shelf/table with the T5's on the bottom of the table with the plants below.

Thanks for sharing your experiences in this thread! It was a great read.


edit: I saw you paid $340... was that with the bulbs? aand that is the 8, 4' lights?


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 21, 2007)

Soo....I was in my car when it hit me. I do have three tables in flowering, two of them will finish at the same time. Hmm.....I really couldn't see any reason to wait with the table of vegging plants except the room arrangement. My next group of clones, which I won't need for at least a month would have to be moved. This is actually the way I wanted to set it up to begin with and with the T-5's it won't be a problem. 
I took a close look at the plants. Here is a 9week and 5 week flowering plant. I have another 'Spread Offense' plant. And here is what it looks like tied up. This last one is of the outside of the farthest from the center of the table plant. Notice the secondary buds are not 'growing in' towards the center. The t-5 spreads the light over the whole table. I am seeing a lot of sideways growth for these lower branches, which is why we had dropped the number of plants. I love it when a plan come together.  Turn the page. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 21, 2007)

Here we go...on the road again....here we go..
Soo... this is a picture of the room before we make the necessary changes that will allow us to have four tables in the flowering area. This will involve removing the clone table and clone stand and putting table four at that end so we end up with two flowering tables on each side of the room and the dividing curtain going the width of the room instead of the length. I was never really happy with the other arrangment, felt it was neccessary at that time. The t-5's have allowed this change.
Table 3 is the mixed table, the center row is 9 week flowering while the two outside rows are 5 week flowering.
Table 2 is now 12 instead of 20, all 5 weeks flowering. Many 'nice' cola's like this exist on the 5 week flowering plants.
I had left my camera in the car overnight and when I brought it in to my 'sancturary' it 'fooged up'. I knocked the outside bud off a plant today while sycronizing the lights. I thought it made a cool picture. Here we are....up on stage.....Turn the Page....VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 21, 2007)

Soo... as long as I had totaled killed that little bud anyway, why not check it. I trimmed it and laid it on the scale. This is 3 weeks from maturity. I want to again remind everyone we added Europonic 'fossil fuel' about the same time we put these under the t-5's so keep in mind we already think we will get a higher/ plant harvest just from that addition. This is about two hours after it got knocked off so its really wet. I will use it for one of those 'unscientific' tests of it's potency some time later today or early tomorrow if anyone cares to stop by.
It used to be a 'microwave cart' Donnie. The 'stool' is better, still not satisfied, price was right. Just been a little busy. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 21, 2007)

indica44 said:


> > I thought i already posted this but what is the name of your fixture. I am getting the sunsystem tek light 4 ft 8 lamp 9 bend deflector made out of german 95% reflective aluminum they claim that there is a 300% higher light output then with no reflector. they are calling them the rolls royce of t5 fixtures I am getting two of them right after X mas.
> 
> 
> Sunlight Supply SunBlaze48. A lot of hid's use that type of reflective material, it sounds like a good one. Part of the reason I bought the one's I have is I plan to replace them. I believe led's will be i use economically within a year.
> ...


Hmm....I thought about doing something with side lighting. Or just move them a few inches apart. You have to see the coverage. Visit the local grow shop and 'look under the hood' . VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 21, 2007)

Tax,title, plates which includes our 6% sales tax. All the bulbs are the same price. The $340.00 numder includes the bulbs. VV


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## tokeythebear (Nov 21, 2007)

watching this nice set up


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 21, 2007)

Thanx Tokey, glad to see you stop by. 
Verticle space can be used to stack things up that aren't very tall. like vegging plants and clones. Soo.....each of the shelves will hold 18 vegging plants and the top layer will be for clones. Now the trick is to come up with an automatted watering system for this puppy. LOL. VV


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## PlasmaRadio (Nov 21, 2007)

I just got to say, awesome work VV. I'm taking notes.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 21, 2007)

Thanx Plasma, good of you to drop by, door is always open. So this is as good as I can do right now because of my camera 'foog up' this morning. Lights come on at 9:00PM est. About 6 hours from now. Indica, I looked at the information they have and I may contact them now. The information they have looks good to me, not that $600.00 although I am sure there is some added air handling etc. that wouldn't be necessary in my environment. They are talking about a 14 watt grid. They say it will cover maximum 1' sq. ft. The information I saw the other day showed a conversion to hid's as 25watts/hundred or 150 watts roughly 11 of these 14 watt grids. At 11 or more your price for the kits @ $30.oo. Being a balanced kind of guy I would want 12 of them to cover my tables anyway. With assembly @$20.00 each thats $600.00 75% less energy use. This warrants further investigation. Now I have to go check Now Stop Whinings post to see what they were. I'll let everyone know the results of that search. I'm thinking they might like to mak a deal. 
Ok it's general thanx time again. There are so many that have contributed to this journey, and journal, that I could not name all of you, I like to think you know who you are, if I have posted in your thread you have helped me in some way. Please indulge my by allowing special thanx to those of you that challenged me to try, Skunk this thread could not have happened without you, and GK when I meet you I'll want you to sign that 'Special' copy, Mogie all of your hard work in FAQ can't be emphazied enough, this could go on for days, but I am running out of kleenex, Lacy glad to see you back. No Waffeling, thats great looking bud, bud. And I take my hat off to the 'Infamous Aussie' Al B Fuct. His presentation of a perpetual harvest was the 'model' for this operation. And the funniest post I ever read in these forums is in his thread, "How To Get A Harvest Every Two Weeks". I love you man. Thanx All of you. VV


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## mastakoosh (Nov 21, 2007)

bravo bravo!!!!!!


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 21, 2007)

Here we go...upon stage.... Started this Journal on November 5th. Two tables in the grow are still in the same spot they started in and everything else has been moved. One of them has been disassembled, no longer useful to me, and a new stand for vegging plants and clones has been built to take advantage of our verticlee space, and we have started to integrate it into what we hope will be a nice perpetual grow op for one old man. We have four tables in flowering now ranging from 3 days to 9+ weeks. Total of 61 plants. Because of the changes I made to the number of plants per table, we would be harvesting 20 plants in approximatley 3 weeks, then 20 more in approximately 7 weeks. Then we will be lagging a week behind with the third harvest, still at 20 plants 12 weeks away. We have 31 clones on the vegging stand, that were transplanted at different times 16 a little over a week ago and the other 15 just two days ago, when we put the vegging clone stand together. 
We are planning on taking two clones from each plant as we move them into flowering 3-4 weeks and 8 weeks from now. They way I see it, with the four tables used for flowering instead of three I can get (4) harvest every (3) months, with the twelve week flowering cycle, and bring the clones along slowly. If the new lights speed up the process we will make other adjustments. We know that in order to grow we need to knowm ? The room, or as much as my camera can show. The table we trimmed last week, now flowering for three days. Skunk I checked as well as I could about the height increase. I hung that meter measurer in the picture and thought it would show up, I can't see it. They have grown 1-1/2" since you asked the question.
Now I have a question for all of you. IF and thats a big IF you were going to post a poll on this thread, for the contest, how would you word your questions??? VV


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## indica44 (Nov 22, 2007)

VV check out the seller on ebay going by the name [fullcomputerconsulting] he claims to make the brightess an least expensive leds on the market


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## PlasmaRadio (Nov 22, 2007)

Just out of curiosity... if you're going to build your own ebb and flows, why not build something low profile? I find lower tables are easier to keep temps down, cheaper to build... is it just easier to maintain your plants?


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 22, 2007)

PlasmaRadio said:


> Just out of curiosity... if you're going to build your own ebb and flows, why not build something low profile? I find lower tables are easier to keep temps down, cheaper to build... is it just easier to maintain your plants?


I thought I explained that, I apoligize. I have 10' ceilings and a bad back. So I made the tables higher to accomidate this old man. The reses are on a concrete floor so the height of the table doesn't affect the temp. The other advantage for me is the distance between the reses and the tables, I can easily reach in, when I am on my knees of course and do any necessary work below without moving the res. If you don't have ten foot ceiling and a bad back adjust the height of the tables to fit your needs and space. VV


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## Heruk (Nov 24, 2007)

Hi Im trying to decide on t5's or hps. I know you say t5's is best for beginners, but they take considerably longer to reach harvesting. Correct? How long did it take you from beginning veg to harvest under t5's?


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## StellaBlue (Nov 24, 2007)

I've been trying to figure out that too.. 

Yeah VV, I'd like to hear how they compair to hps as far as flowering times and final product go.

ty


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## skunkushybrid (Nov 24, 2007)

flowering is genetic. A plant will flower for a set period of time, and that's it.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 24, 2007)

Hey heruk and blue welcome, nice of you to stop bye. From the time I start flowering these WW, Crystal and Ice strains is around (12) weeks. Hey, I'm just learning. Don't judge the lights based on my efforts. You will notice the flowering time was the same when I was using the hps lights. Those were 400watt, the t-5's are 440 watt.
As far as taking clones and flowering them in a few weeks, I know many say they do, I wasn't successful with the first mothers I was going to use. I don't normally top plants. For mothers I should have. So what I'm taking clones from is the vegging plants just before I put them in flowering. SInce my cycle will be three tables four weeks each I won't need them for a month, which fits right in with the rotation. 
I say the are right for new growers because of the way they can add them to the setup as they go while virtually eliminating the heat problems associated with the hid's and the fact that you only need one fixture. You could start as many seedlings as you could fit under 1 fixture. I could do 96 with lots of room to spare. When you want to switch them to flowering just change the light schedule the same light will veg and flower the plants. You can wait to purchase the next light until you need more than 1. 
Having said that, I am thinking very seriously about trying some led lights.
The next yield will give us a better picture of how the T-5's perform. So far I like what I see, I am not that experienced, maybe I'm seeing what I want too??
The first table that I vegged under the t-5's is one I trimmed last week. I had to remove 3 of the plants from the table yesterday. I'll post a picture or two from it tonight. The lights come on at 9:00Pm est. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 24, 2007)

Some folks seem to have some questions about what I am showing here. I posted pictues of this table when I trimmed it. Its repeated here so you have something for comparison. This first one is from 11/15. The next one you see is what they looked like 11/22, one week later, and then 11/24 from the front and from the side. This is the first table that will be done exclusively with the t-5's. The first (6) are ice plants, the next (6) are WW and the back (6) are Crystal. As i stated I had to remove three plants from that table already. And here is what that bud I knocked off three weeks early looks like after drying for two days. Turn the page. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 24, 2007)

You can interpet these for your self. The first is the table that will be 10 weeks flowering tomorrow, the next is 6 weeks flowering and the third is mixed 10 weeks and 6 weeks flowering. Please remember we introduced 'Fossil fuel' to our nute solution so we were already expecting some increase. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 24, 2007)

StellaBlue said:


> > I've been trying to figure out that too..
> 
> 
> These Strains flower in 12 weeks.
> ...


You are welcome. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 24, 2007)

Heruk said:


> Hi Im trying to decide on t5's or hps. I know you say t5's is best for beginners, but they take considerably longer to reach harvesting. Correct? How long did it take you from beginning veg to harvest under t5's?


If you count from the time they went under the t-5's it will be just under 16 weeks total. My clones are just under t-12's or t-8's. I am not trying to rush them. My tables are full. I don't have anywhere to put them and I'm not building another table... yet? VV


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## indica44 (Nov 25, 2007)

vv I just won a auction on ebay for four 225 led lights per square. 900 led set equivalent to 600 hps for 187.00 canadian the proper mixture of red an blue forall stages. I am going to put one in each corner of my new t5 eight bulb fixture on a slight angle I am moving this week as soon as I move iam starting a journal. PEACE AN POT


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## indica44 (Nov 25, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> You can interpet these for your self. The first is the table that will be 10 weeks flowering tomorrow, the next is 6 weeks flowering and the third is mixed 10 weeks and 6 weeks flowering. Please remember we introduced 'Fossil fuel' to our nute solution so we were already expecting some increase. VV


that first pic is just beautiful looking close to another pound of bud


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 25, 2007)

indica44 said:


> vv I just won a auction on ebay for four 225 led lights per square. 900 led set equivalent to 600 hps for 187.00 canadian the proper mixture of red an blue forall stages. I am going to put one in each corner of my new t5 eight bulb fixture on a slight angle I am moving this week as soon as I move iam starting a journal. PEACE AN POT


That will be awesome. When you get them take pictures as you set up the installation. Put them in that journal. How did the lights and price compare to the first web site you posted here. Sounds like they are similar but already built? 

Thanx for your next comment as well. I stand in that room and end up looking at everyone of them. I never used to take the time to do that. Now it's scary. You do have the numbers right though. I think I have a pound per table, thats just a guess. All except the last one have stopped upward growth, (20) of them still have 6 weeks to flower.
VV


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## ozone (Nov 25, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> flowering is genetic. A plant will flower for a set period of time, and that's it.


I'm so glad someone said that. get sick of hearing ppl say flowering will be slower under fluro as apposed to HID. Its genetic end of story. Yeild may differ due to different light source but flowering maturity wont.

Excellent grow journal VV. I just read it from cover to cover and have enjoyed it all.


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## indica44 (Nov 25, 2007)

That first guy comptuerconsulting said the equvalent of a 1000 hps would be 30 strips at about 50 a strip But if I understood him right he uses less parts an gets the same amount of light. But he also said something about wavelengths an what ever plant iam growing i need to learn that an then I can make a estimate on how many strips I would need but I am not going that way. The one that I am getting looks good four squares at 225 per square they seem to be coming out of California the store is on ebay LED WHOLESALERS INC also check out great lights 4 less store on EBAY I got a MONSTER T5 flourescent 8 bulb fixture I got 16 bulbs 8 veg an 8 bloom about the coolest reflector you can make angled on the ends for better light penetration all that for 289.00 an then 45.00 for shipping an around 40 I have to pay the ups dude for duty an such so alltogether around 375.00 best I have seen yet an the rerviews over 3000 of them are 98 per cent positive which is frickin good when dealing with fragile glass tubes. PEACE AN POT


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## indica44 (Nov 29, 2007)

Check out Experiments with Hydroponics, Aeroponics, and LED Grow Lighting it will blow your mind ongoing LED grows with the latest led grow bulbs.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 29, 2007)

indica44 said:


> Check out Experiments with Hydroponics, Aeroponics, and LED Grow Lighting it will blow your mind ongoing LED grows with the latest led grow bulbs.


I am sold on the led's. Home Grown Lights mentions e-bay specials. I looked, I didn't find anything there, have you? VV


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## potpimp (Nov 29, 2007)

Those are looking fantastic Vic!! Keep up the great work.


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## indica44 (Nov 29, 2007)

Punch in led growlights VV should show 90 plus iyems


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 29, 2007)

I have done that. I get many more than 90. The problem is no one is addressing our issues yet, the need to cover tables of plants with lights. The closets I have seen was the one NSW posted from HTG. The panels in it don't match the one's Ryan has. His make sense to me. Its just about 5" sq. easy to center in a frame of pvc, which I will work on before vacation, should be a snap, well in this case a push, still easy to do. There are holes down the sides of the panels so using wire ties to secure them to a grid should be easy. They come with cords, he has had some inquiries about linking them and is working on possibilities. I e-mailed him and got two responses back in one day, that is impressive, makes me think he cares about his business. I think 'we' should work with this man. It sounds to me like he is one of 'us'. Small business people that have found a need and a way to fill it. Much like GK just did with his book and the cfl's. I am sure a few of us, myself included, bought his book. Maybe this is a bad idea. Any mods or rollitup want to weigh in here. Should we use the purchasing power we have as a group?? Or would we be asking for trouble if we did?? VV


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## indica44 (Nov 30, 2007)

I have checked out HTG they dont ship to Canada. Are you thinking the 900 four square 64 watts total set wont work VV. Are you thinking more along the line of the BUlb set fior direction. One seller has what I think from my research the best one they are called gro-tec guy boasts of a 20 year warranty. He goes by qaz661 gad rden plants electrical solar on ebay check it ou I will be down toady VV maybe tomorrow to I am moving to the new PAD way out in the middle of no where in Northern Ontario PEACE AN POT


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 30, 2007)

No I am not thinking that one won't work, I believe it will. I think Ryans is the most logical I have seen. Its about 5" sq. has more bulbs and you saw the information on the test of the 14 watt light. He is working on making improvements to adapt it for the kind of use we would put them to. The 5" sq covering one square foot of surface should help maximize the light use. And his has more bulbs in the panel than any I have seen. I think we need to start a discussion of what is available etc. I see several folks posting questions about them. I'm working on the grid design now. Maybe you can post some pics of your light especially the frame work that ties them together?? VV


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## Heruk (Nov 30, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> If you count from the time they went under the t-5's it will be just under 16 weeks total. My clones are just under t-12's or t-8's. I am not trying to rush them. My tables are full. I don't have anywhere to put them and I'm not building another table... yet? VV


Thanks VV
Nice Grow Journal BTW.
I got a nice hps setup for cheap. Im gonna run that 1st and see how that works. I am vegging with some flo's that I had laying around. If I start a journal it would be a nice comparison. But I am not working anywhere near your scale. you could supply YOUR BLOCK if you wanted to.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 1, 2007)

Heruk said:


> Thanks VV
> Nice Grow Journal BTW.
> 
> 
> ...


I understand where you are because I have been there. I'm not done with mine yet and neither are you, thats makes us even. Its taken my well over a year to get to this point and it will probably be another year before I am satisfied. I haven't been able to accomplish any of the improvements I want to do yet. I had to work out the setup first. I may get one of them done today. Steady progress. I could eat a giant bear, all by my self......one bite at a time.
Ok a few other pics. The table that was trimmed two weeks ago, it has three less plants on it and this is lights out. 
About twoweeks from harvest. 6 weeks, and mixed 2 weeks/6 weeks. I may lose this, computer problem. I'll post the pics as soon as I can. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 1, 2007)

The problem ends up being a disk error. I will have to retake the pictures @ 9:00pm. VV


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## ravegraffiti (Dec 1, 2007)

You got thaat down packed man! i bet ur electricity bill is very high. lol


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 1, 2007)

Define high. Last month it was $217.60. We have two teenagers with in televisions and computers in every room except the bathrooms, 1400 sqft. house in Michigan. My combined gas and electirc will be around $400.00 for Dec-Feb. The air conditioner pulls more electric in the summer, all three months, than my lights do. I only have 1720 watts over all four of those tables, so I'm spending less than what you would for 2-1000 watt furnaces, not to mention the difference in heat issues, and available height for growing. Does that answer your question?? VV


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## ravegraffiti (Dec 1, 2007)

lol yep, it sure does


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 1, 2007)

The table that was trimmed down to nothing on11/15, two weeks flowering. This is the first table that will have T-5 lighting for the entire flowering period, its the test one. I will have to take smoe more plants off this table as soon as possible, took three off so far. 6 weeks flowering, mixed 6 weeks and 10 weeks and last all 10 weeks of flowering. I include a good bud just becasue I love you man. Turn the page. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 1, 2007)

Here we go on the road again... here we go up on stage... So I was at Menards the other day and ran across this air cleaner for a work shop. It has a couple of washable filters inside with a 265cfm fan. It will clean the air in a 17x17x8 foot room every 10 minutes. Kinda sounds like a refrigerator running, fairly quite. $70.00. And here is a shot of a decent looking bud, not like that other good one. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 2, 2007)

Soo.. I stood there looking at the plants. The 10 week flowering table is so full of colas I can't tell where one plant stops and another one starts. This give me concern about the low yield we might get from having so many multiple cola plants. And it gets me thinking about what I should do next. The ones that have been in flowering for two weeks under the T-5's are just getting to dense and they are all ready budding. Here are pictures of the 3 strains from the front. I am also including a picture of a 6 week flowering cola I have concerns about, it looks like its exploding. Whats wrong with it?? I'll address more of that later. Turn the page. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 2, 2007)

Here are pictures of the tops of those same plants. They have buds all over. Normally I would trim off the bottom 1/3 at this point, they never had flowers this quickly before. I don't want to lose any of the yield from the tops. Would you trim these again or just try to get them spread out more as soon as you could?
What makes me think I need to do something, I just don't know what, is the condition of the plants that are at 6 weeks of flowering. They look 'too' healthy, they have multiple bud sites, not just at the top, all over. Here's a couple of shots of them so you can see what I mean. Any suggestions? VV


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## donnieosmond (Dec 2, 2007)

Naughty, naughty forbidden jungle of love.


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## PlasmaRadio (Dec 2, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> They look 'too' healthy, they have multiple bud sites, not just at the top, all over. VV


Your problem is that they are 'too' healthy? Well, that's just crummy for you isn't it.


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## mastakoosh (Dec 2, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> Here we go on the road again... here we go up on stage... So I was at Menards the other day and ran across this air cleaner for a work shop. It has a couple of washable filters inside with a 265cfm fan. It will clean the air in a 17x17x8 foot room every 10 minutes. Kinda sounds like a refrigerator running, fairly quite. $70.00. And here is a shot of a decent looking bud, not like that other good one. VV


 is this pretty effective for the smell? i would be interested in purchasing one.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 2, 2007)

"Check" Mate will be the harvest or I will have to give up my queen, probably for a pawn. I'm beginning to think that potraosts reminder that air stones are needed with organic nutes and the addition of the 'Fossil Fuel' are having more of an effect than I thought they would. I think the humic acids in my nutrients are being allowed to do there job because of the addition of the 'Fossil Fuel'. And the ventilation, the change to the wall mounted fans etc. has made all of it work better.Can we sustain it for 10 more weeks. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 5, 2007)

mastakoosh said:


> is this pretty effective for the smell? i would be interested in purchasing one.


I haven't had it in use long enough to tell. And since I smoke occasionally, someone else is going to have to tell me. If it doesn't seem like it is doing the job I will get another of the carbon filter's like I used in the bud dryer to go in place of or in addition too the existing filters in it. Depending on the set-up in your room it could replace a floor fan that has been used to keep air moving around your reservoirs. Another thing I have found effective is large sticks of incense, don't burn them, put one in front of a fan and let it blow. Have to be careful though, if you get just the right scent it will speed up your labido. That would kill an old man like me.
Soo.... it's been a month now, seems like years.lol And only 2 1/2 months to go now. VV


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## mastakoosh (Dec 5, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> I haven't had it in use long enough to tell. And since I smoke occasionally, someone else is going to have to tell me. If it doesn't seem like it is doing the job I will get another of the carbon filter's like I used in the bud dryer to go in place of or in addition too the existing filters in it. Depending on the set-up in your room it could replace a floor fan that has been used to keep air moving around your reservoirs. Another thing I have found effective is large sticks of incense, don't burn them, put one in front of a fan and let it blow. Have to be careful though, if you get just the right scent it will speed up your labido. That would kill an old man like me.
> Soo.... it's been a month now, seems like years.lol And only 2 1/2 months to go now. VV


 haha okay i will have to look into the incense. maybe it will help the wifes labido. yeah i am gonna have to look into the diy carbon filters. btw plants look really nice. shows that there are other ways to grow nice buds without the heralded HPS lol.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 12, 2007)

this is what it looked like this morning. VV


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## donnieosmond (Dec 12, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> this is what it looked like this morning. VV


Lookin good vv


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## potpimp (Dec 12, 2007)

Guys you really need to forget about the carbon filters and get one of these things!! They are cheap and work like crazy!! Don't go trying to outbid each other; just bid on another one; they have thousands of them. You'll have to do a couple of mouse clicks to find ones that are not bidded on yet. You can pick it up for $21 including shipping and it comes from Hong Kong. The instructions and packaging is hilarious but ignore that and just put in the air freshener thingy and plug it in. There is a Hi/Lo switch to best suit the size of your cabinet or room. Nongreenthumb uses two of these in a big room and he said it's more than adequate. You won't regret it!

IONIC BALL AIR PURIFIER IONIZER CLEANER W BREEZER OZONE - (eBay item 220183100623 end time Dec-13-07 10:15:00 PST)


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 12, 2007)

I appreciate the information. I remember he posted that some time back. I don't have a 'smell problem'. I have discussed this with folks that have been here and all of them say they can't tell anything outside of my garage. The carbon filtering, if I add it will be more to take advantage of the larger fan I would want to install before I would put in co2. Most of the information I have seen says you want co2 15 on 15 off with your fan on the opposite 15 minutes. My little in line 500cfm is not going to be able to handle that. VV


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## potpimp (Dec 12, 2007)

Okie dokie smokie. Using CO2 should really make a huge difference! One of these days I'm going to have a full room dedicated to growing and then I'll put in a system like that.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 12, 2007)

When I get to that point I hope to have some time to research growing oyster mushrooms. The way Harley explained it's kinda like a do it youself Boost Bucket, the ones that produce co2 for about three months, $125.00 initial, then $100.00 refills. Do your own using oyster mushrooms have a second saleable crop, three bag rotation, 90 days and harvest, start another bag. It would match my rotation and I think I have the room height to work with, its not all taken up with hid lights. Harley is the one that explained how far ahead the Australian are with there use of hydro etc. He also explained some thing's he taught Dutch growers with his use of humic acids etc. to control pests for lettuce and Strawberry crops. A little out of my league but it has stuck in my mind for a little over a year now. VV


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## wafflehouselover (Dec 12, 2007)

Who is harley?


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 12, 2007)

He works for the hydro shop I visit. He helps school set up systems for having an aquarium and a hydro grow running together. This was like maybe my third trip in to the store. He had my head buzzin. And the next day I saw him on our local news explaining what he is setting up with one of the school system's in Jackson. They are going to set up hydro grows of the friuts and vegetables for the schools to use in their lunch program instead of buying them. Imagine actual ripe tomatoes in Mighigan in winter, and the students will know how to setup and amintain a hydro operation. They wouldn't beleive me when I told them I didn't graduate and just needed that class for my diploma. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 13, 2007)

Harvest time for this small plant, just looked right. VV


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## prude (Dec 26, 2007)

Many, many thanks from Saskatchewan. I'm about to invest in t5's - invaluable information for another old fart with a bad back.


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## donnieosmond (Dec 26, 2007)

I was gonna ask where the damn updates were but I forgot VV mentioned he was going on a vacation.... hopefully the guy he has taking care of them hasn't fucked it up. haha.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 27, 2007)

I just got tired of all the negative bullshit about my posts on lights. Vacation start the 31st. VV


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## donnieosmond (Dec 27, 2007)

Ohhh ok... well some people on this forum are idiots. It's pretty obvious your set up is working well by the looks of your plants, don't take it personally.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 28, 2007)

_



I vowed to vote "Yarp" if I could read this entire thread w/o VV mentioning T5's...

Click to expand...

__ Be kinda hard not to take it personal don't you think? See ya after vacation. VV_


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## HotNSexyMILF (Dec 28, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> I just got tired of all the negative bullshit about my posts on lights. Vacation start the 31st. VV


We know other lights work- forget them, not all of use worship the almighty hid 24/7.  LOL...


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## godspeedsuckah (Dec 28, 2007)

Yeah seriously VV, your grow and setup is awesome; mucho kudos!!!! I have seen so many buds on here grown with floro's that are very impressive; more so than alot of HID buds I have seen. If it works for you dont fix it!!! Good job and happy smokin!!


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## mastakoosh (Dec 28, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> Harvest time for this small plant, just looked right. VV


 short fat and green, just the way i like em. beautiful and stout.


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## potpimp (Dec 28, 2007)

I'm glad you're still around; assholes abound here too, sad to say. I have MH, HPS, MS CFL's and I'll be buying some T5's before summer. There is a reason and purpose for each of these bulbs. I may not be the perfect grower and my plants may not be quite as big as some at the finish line but at least I'm not killing them anymore, LOL.


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## Heruk (Dec 28, 2007)

VictorVIcious said:


> Harvest time for this small plant, just looked right. VV


lookin good vic
what was the yeild


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 28, 2007)

Heruk said:


> lookin good vic
> what was the yeild


If you are asking about that plant, it was one of the better ones, tipped in 168 grams wet. Curing now so finals are not in on that one. Just missed the 1 oz per plant on the last one, 21 grams short of 16 oz from 16 plants. VV


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## Heruk (Jan 6, 2008)

saweet
do you think that it will be able to pay for itself?
i mean if you chose to let it of course


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 12, 2008)

I think I will have recooped the investment in a few months. I intend to capitalize the return by reinvesting in led's, a co2 system and additional carbon filtering, plus a few other changes that I have been considering. VV


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## bfootball51 (Jan 20, 2008)

could u help me a little on lights seems to me u know your shit looks beautiful i have a tiny space maybe 2.5 x 2.5 an 3.5 ht. any thing u could recommand for lighting that does not get very hot


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 20, 2008)

You might be able to get 3 or 4 plants in there with cfl's. There are a lot of journals in this forum that utilize a space similar to your, I would look at a few of them and then decide. You will need ventilation taking the stale co2 depleted air out and replacing it with 'fresh' air as well as a small oscillating fan.VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 29, 2008)

Soo... I have decided to make some changes, imagine that. I am going to change the strains I am growing, blueberry varieties seem popular. All of the existing plants are in flowering, I did not take clones, I may experiment with revegging a couple after harvest.
This first table of plants is the one that was vegged for part of the time under the t-5 lights and is our 'test table' for harvest comparisons to hid lighting. They are about 9 weeks flowering now. Remember, we also dropped from 20 plants under hid's to 12 under the t-5's, and we are still hoping to get the same yield. 
This second table is a mixed bag, some at 9 weeks, some less, a lot of ice, and the yield from them should be better than it has been. Several 'nice buds'. Still not close to some of the pictures I have seen, probably operator error's.
These last two tables are at 6 weeks and two weeks. They were vegged under t-12's and then flowering under the t-5's, again 12 plants per table. Turn the page. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 29, 2008)

.....Soo approximately three weeks to harvest of the 'test table', and I am a little nervous about the outcome. Can I get the same kind of harvest from 12 plants as I got from 20 under the t-5's. Well..... here is a picture of a typical plant from that table and a view of the top. I am still concerned about the multiple 'large bud' sites taking away from the main cola and I think I probably should have cut more of the bottom branches off early. I do have some 'large bud' sites that are at the level of the main cola from as low as the fourth node so I'm not sure how this will turn out. Some of the leaves have been shed, not that many, so maybe it will turn out alright. Colas from the other tables have been included, and I only lost two plants this year while I was on vacation. Had some 'friends' drop by while I was gone so I wasn't broke when I got back, thats a first, all in all a good year. VV


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## kevin (Jan 31, 2008)

grows like yours are my inspiration!! thanks vv




my first grow
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/46705-my-first-horticulture-experiment.html


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 31, 2008)

kevin said:


> grows like yours are my inspiration!! thanks vv
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanx for the compliment. Al B Fuct was the inspiration for it, and the one thing that will remain constant is that it will change.
Its time to get some opinions on how this grow is going. These are plants off the 'test table'. The first on is a WW clone taken on 10/12. Its 26" tall with a 9-10" main cola. You can see the amount of fan leaves and lower shoots, maybe I should have trimmed them more?? The second one is about the same except it was taken on 9/22. The third plant is Crystal aboput 18" tall. Turn the page...... VV


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## VictorVIcious (Jan 31, 2008)

Here we go, on the road again.....
Plant 3 is WW clone taken on 9/22 and is typical of about 1/2 of the plants. It's not exhibiting any main cola, more like 3 or 4 'Large' bud sites and I'm hoping you can see some of the smaller bud site in this top shot. Some of them are 7 or 8" lower than the top buds. They are just everywhere. What should I have done different??  Almost forgot this one is only 23" tall. I have included a picture of what the bottom of the table looks like. I think I should have maybe trimmed some more of this lower growth out, you can see that weak t-5 light is hitting the algae covers though. 
The last picture is a close up of the Crystal, don't know if it will show up enough to see. Its just all little 'crystal buds' everywhere, again no clearly defined main cola. 
All of these plants are just about 10 weeks flowering now, so they do have two weeks to go. I don't think this would be a good time to trim more off the bottom. Any thoughts?? VV


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## dylster88 (Feb 1, 2008)

nice good job man im not going to lie im jealous.


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 1, 2008)

dylster88 said:


> nice good job man im not going to lie im jealous.


thanks for the compliment. Someone reped my for this thread and didn't leave a name. Since this is the first time it has happened I would like to know who? VV


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 5, 2008)

Here's the deal. Saturday Night everything seems fine. Sunday night the plant on the left in this first picture looked like the plant on the right. Leaves looked completly limp overnight, so I pulled it, flushed in and set it under low light. This is Monday, the plant from the left is dry, dead, the branches are almost like dry ready to cure. A close up of the one on the right shows how dead these leaves are and thats in one day. The plant in the Middle is the one that was closest to these two plants and appears healthy. The last picture show what the almost dead plant loos like after I cut off the dead fan leaves, and as you can see there aren't any fan leaves left. I put it under low light and when I looked at it this morning it hadn't died anymore since last night. This is an Ice plant 6 weeks flowering, not near maturity, and I am totally lost. 
I did of course tear the pot apart looking for some explanation of what might have caused this, and I didn't find anything out of the ordinary. The medium is coco coir with about 1" of dry rockwool flock on the top, a little experiment to see if it will control fungus knats. Everything looked normal there, nice roots, medium moist around the merristem.
Any ideas?? VV


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## fiona (Feb 10, 2008)

Thanks Vic for taking the time to share all your info. I am in the process of planning my future grow. I'm the kind of person who needs to plan out my attack before I start. I was all ready to go with a 600w digital HPS system in a 4x4 grow tent when I came across your thread. It has really got me thinking, hummmm T5's. Do you think if I put two of those 8 lamp bad boys in a 4x4 tent I could push out a pound per month?


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 10, 2008)

fiona said:


> Thanks Vic for taking the time to share all your info. I am in the process of planning my future grow. I'm the kind of person who needs to plan out my attack before I start. I was all ready to go with a 600w digital HPS system in a 4x4 grow tent when I came across your thread. It has really got me thinking, hummmm T5's. Do you think if I put two of those 8 lamp bad boys in a 4x4 tent I could push out a pound per month?


I think they will perform better than one 600watt light, the question would be can you provide the flowering plants to feed the system. I have three of the t-5's and one 400 watt hps in my operation. The strains I grow have a 12 week flowering time. The key would be the rest of the production line to get to the last table. If you have a strain the flowers in less time then you wouldn't need the same space to produce it, like sweet tooth or blueberry. VV


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## fiona (Feb 11, 2008)

Yeah I have a separate system idea for the mothers and clones. I've ordered some White Widow seeds which are meant to take 8-9 weeks to flower. But you are saying 12 right? I'm curious as to what size pots you are using? Also, if you kept the veg time to a minimum and kept the plants low, could you pack a whole bunch more in the same space, or would that have an adverse effect on your yield? 
Thanks man

Michigan Rocks!


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 11, 2008)

I am saying the strain I have flowers for at least 12 weeks, and if I remember correctly that was what the information from the seed bank said as well, not all of them take that long. Many of them are more satavia dominant than the ones I have. 
I use 8" pots that are close to one gallon size. Yes I could do that, I could put 24 in pots that size on the tables. I could probably put forty on there in 6" rockwool blocks. I have seen posts from knowledgable 'plant' folks that say you will get the same yeild off the table no matter how many plants you have on it. I'm trying to test that theory for myself. I think the 12 plants I have on those tables now is going to give me the same yield I got with 20. I am switching strain so after I harvest this next table I will be going down to 9 plants or less per table. I have noticed that they will fill up the available space.
I also noticed the Thread posted today by Garden Knowm. 9 plants per table. Hmmm. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 11, 2008)

Pictures, we like pictures, got any pictures?? Well, godafew. This first picture, the twin towers, if anyone has any input on maturity please share, as I have stated I am partially color blind, I could use the help.
The next ones are just shots of the tables. Both heat and humidity are necessary in MIchigan. VV


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## PlasmaRadio (Feb 11, 2008)

I hate when you post pics... it makes me feel insignificant and small. I just want some massive buds!


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## fiona (Feb 11, 2008)

I'm curious what you think of this bad boy?
Arrrgghhh! Worlds colliding! 

Buy 516W 4ft. HPS/T5 Spectra Max Grow Light Lights Here!


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## PlasmaRadio (Feb 11, 2008)

Too expensive. You could buy 8 4ft fixtures for that cost, and still have money leftover to bolt it to a metal frame.


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## fiona (Feb 11, 2008)

I've seen them cheaper, it was just a good pic on that one.


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## PlasmaRadio (Feb 11, 2008)

Fo' Real?

Well, it isn't bad then. Good lumen to power ratio.


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## LoudBlunts (Feb 11, 2008)

it must be real tasty in MI for you sir. looking good.


say vic....what do you think about aeroponic and coco?


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 12, 2008)

I was standing in Wally World the other day thinking just that, what about aero or DWC etc. and coco. Could you line net pots with the coco mats the have to line hanging plant baskets to stop the coco-coir from washing into the reses. Will they allow the roots to grow thru? 
The advantage is that the coco is a better insulator than any of the other mediums when they are all wet so high water temps are tolerated for a short period of time. I would rather use the coco because recycling it into my outdoor plants makes sense. 

I haven't built an aero system and before I do I am going to look at a setup someone I consider an expert is using, probably in the next week or so. After that I may experiment a little with a small amount of plants to see how it would work. My problem would be investing in the meters etc. that I would need, the only thing I use for my flood and drain is the BlueLab Truncheon and that will not be enough equipment to properly monitor a aero system. I think you may have to take the lead on this one. VV


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## LoudBlunts (Feb 12, 2008)

Victor, i think me and you are on the same page, almost the exact same page!


but i think i have a solution to something better than the coco mats. You do know they have the cocotek netpots right? so im thinking to just use a regular netpot with a coco pot dropped in, filled with coco. 

The only problem i can possibly see is wondering if have the coco constantly wet would cause a problem. Im in between on this one, because as long as the water is oxygenated, it should be fine. On the other hand, coco can hold alot of water.

if not, i would clone in rapidrooters or coco starter pots, drop a coco pot into a netpot and fill with coco

(the aeroponic in my mind would be something like fletch's 30 min aero tub build)

i think it would work, what about you?


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 12, 2008)

GO for it, show that it works. I am still going to stick with what I am doing. I want to finish the rest of the plan first, get the additional lights (led's) set up another table and start a new strain. I will have to get a carbon scrubber, air conditioner and dehumidifier by summer. then I might get on that page. VV


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## LoudBlunts (Feb 12, 2008)

im asking you your opinion tho.


do you think that having coco wet all the time with oxygenated water will be bad?


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 12, 2008)

LoudBlunts said:


> im asking you your opinion tho.
> 
> 
> do you think that having coco wet all the time with oxygenated water will be bad?


Yes I do. Only from what I have read. Some folks cycle thier aero's on and off because of different functions of different parts of the roots. Two threads come to mind you may wish to check out and Lumberjack Jan posted a Organic/ hydrogow once that kinda fits this category. One of the post was in Potroast's thread on Hydroponics, I think its a sticky. There is a post there about results acheived by a tech that you should look at and Closet Cult has a thread using some interesting concepts that could apply. I think the roots can 'dry out a little' and get better results. I also noticed Al B talking about adding the fotocell so his roots 'dry a little'.
All of this is just what I think. If I get serious about aero, and I may, I will be sure to read everything Filthy Fletch has posted on the subject and probably read the 60 plant thread.
The coco will stay 'wet' for a long time, I have let pots sit for a few days after harvest and they are still wet at the bottom. Stopping the water from running will allow the water to drain to the bottom of the pot and oxygen gets drawn down to the top two-thirds of the roots. IMO VV


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## Heruk (Feb 13, 2008)

Damn man
i just have to say you are one serious grower
but i have a question for you
can you take a look here https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/38919-heruk-s-1st-hydro-grow-3.html#post547719 
for me?


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## KillHit (Feb 14, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> My current set up has only been in place for about a week now. Before that I had t-12's, a lot of them over the tables in my mother/ clone area. Last Tuesday I bought the third t-5 light, so the clones have been under it a week and a day. The first picture shows the clone, taken on 10/12, comparing the stem to a Double A battery. I just trimmed the plant as if I were ready to put it in flowering. This one happens to be WW. The next shows a plant I kept out of the last ones I put in flowering, compare to the three week newer clone nder 1 week of t-5 lighting. At that time it was one of the healthier plants thats the reason I picked it for a mother. You will notice they are just about the same height right now but the one under the t-5 has a much bigger stem. Turn the page. VV


these t5 lights... i have 4' fixtures... what wattage should i have, and what type? cool white/daylight?


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 14, 2008)

KillHit said:


> these t5 lights... i have 4' fixtures... what wattage should i have, and what type? cool white/daylight?


I bought the 8tube 4' fixtures. Research done by the owner of the hydro shop I visit showed the best yirld when using a 1/2 mixture of red and blue bulbs for the entire grow start to finish. He has owned the shop since 1983, thats good enough for me. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 14, 2008)

Heruk said:


> Damn man
> i just have to say you are one serious grower
> but i have a question for you
> can you take a look here https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/38919-heruk-s-1st-hydro-grow-3.html#post547719
> for me?


I read a lot of the thread, have been following from time to time. You need an opinion from someone familiar with the strain and system you are using. Could be normal maturity, I can't see colors well so I won't be able to help much. VV


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## WidowMaker79 (Feb 17, 2008)

this is a great one to follow! 
awesome job!


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## DR toadstool (Feb 17, 2008)

yes i am watching this close very good info. thanks


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 18, 2008)

WidowMaker79 said:


> this is a great one to follow!
> awesome job!


Welcome and Dr. Toadstool, welcome as well. Be sure and check the Original Widow Makers journal, just ignore the bouncing objects and concentrate on what he says and does.lol 
Not much to report, just some pictures. Any of you that can offer some help as to maturity of the colas please do, as I have stated I don't see colors real well. VV


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## GoodFriend (Feb 18, 2008)

hey my friend those buds are looking great!

its a little hard to tell from those pics... but maybe another 2 weeks left for them? you've got some nice sized buds... just let the calaxes swell then you should be good... =]


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 18, 2008)

yes, after I posted it, I realized the color wasn't very good and the lights are out so I'll have to wait to post a better one. I'm hoping the blueberry seeds arrive this week and I can get those started. Hopefully all of these will be harvested by the time I am ready to put the new ones in flowering and all of the varieties I ordered are supposed to be 8 week flowering instead of the 12 weeks these take. I will start a new journal for that. I am still deciding about increasing the number of tables and decreasing the number of plants per table after the first 4 weeks of flowering. Put 36 on a 4 x 4 table and then move them into flowering 9 per 32" by 4' table. Doing this should allow for a harvest every week. Of course the question is what kind of a yield can we get this way. VV


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## jojobone (Feb 18, 2008)

I just sat here and read this whole thread from start to finish, drooling all over my keyboard at those pics. There is no better motivation than seeing someone make it. Great Job! I can't wait to get my project moving along. The whole time I was reading your posts I was hoping I would get to the end and you were still here posting and u still are. I'm right next door in WI. I have always believed in t5 for vegetative, and after this thread I will also use a t5 or a t5hps for flowering. Is Nirvana the best place for seeds or is there another bank u can mention that is dependable? I'm looking for an Indica that will flower fast, Nirvana has some but I know there more, unless I was looking in the wrong place.


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 18, 2008)

sorry I am the wrong one to ask about seeds. I had only ordered once until this month. I had the company marked in favorites and my computer crashed, I knew they didn't have blueberry at that time so I ordered from Peak Seeds. They have the DJ Short varieties and that is what one of my advisors recommended. I will let you know if I get them this week. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 19, 2008)

As promised, here are a couple of cola shots. Hope they show up better. Vv


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## southfloridasean (Feb 19, 2008)

Nice journal VV. I like the T5 method.


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## HazyEyes (Feb 19, 2008)

VV bro haha what ones mine haha jk but you did not flower those under the T5 did you if so i am fucking amazed


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## bwinn27 (Feb 19, 2008)

looking good man.


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 19, 2008)

HazyEyes said:


> VV bro haha what ones mine haha jk but you did not flower those under the T5 did you if so i am fucking amazed


All of those have been under t-5's only for all of the flowering. Table 3 in the previous pictures are under a 400 watt hps. The ice is more satavia dominant then the widow and crystal so they kinda all ended up together.
I think a lot of it has to do with the use of the Fossil Fuel and the humic acids. I know I haven't ever had to flush a table because of a nute problem.
If you can tell me which plant it is on from the picture, number one-twelve,left to right, I'll put your name on it. That is the problem, I can't tell which colas belong with whoch plants. I will figure it out though.lmfao VV


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## mattso101 (Feb 19, 2008)

Nice VV! Gotta love those T5's! I use them aswell. I have also added a 150 watt HPS I bought from home depot. Helps alot to fatten up the colas. Its not to hot either I can put it nearly as close as th t5s. Lookin very nice I like to see other flowering with t5s aswell


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 19, 2008)

ok so some one needs to help me out with the multiple posts. How do you quote more than one person in a single reply?? Remember to go slow, I am older and it takes me a while to catch on. bwinn thats not a small cola you have. Constant improvement, looking good. South floriduh may be were we end up in a year or so. We have friends in the area. VV


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## southfloridasean (Feb 19, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> ok so some one needs to help me out with the multiple posts. How do you quote more than one person in a single reply?? Remember to go slow, I am older and it takes me a while to catch on. bwinn thats not a small cola you have. Constant improvement, looking good. South floriduh may be were we end up in a year or so. We have friends in the area. VV


Yeah, your planning on moving this way VV?


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## HazyEyes (Feb 19, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> All of those have been under t-5's only for all of the flowering. Table 3 in the previous pictures are under a 400 watt hps. The ice is more satavia dominant then the widow and crystal so they kinda all ended up together.
> I think a lot of it has to do with the use of the Fossil Fuel and the humic acids. I know I haven't ever had to flush a table because of a nute problem.
> If you can tell me which plant it is on from the picture, number one-twelve,left to right, I'll put your name on it. That is the problem, I can't tell which colas belong with whoch plants. I will figure it out though.lmfao VV


Well man i tip my hat to you bro very nice very nice

but hmmm i pick the plant on the second picture in the very back to the left haha ... good guess aaaa?? haha


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 19, 2008)

southfloridasean said:


> Yeah, your planning on moving this way VV?


We are ready to get out of Michigan. 
My wife will finish her masters next year with over 15 years in the insurance business. I could go for anywhere below North Carolina. closer to the Ocean the better. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 19, 2008)

HazyEyes said:


> Well man i tip my hat to you bro very nice very nice
> 
> but hmmm i pick the plant on the second picture in the very back to the left haha ... good guess aaaa?? haha


That one is an excellent choice, now all you need to do is figure out which one of the twelve it is. lol VV


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## southfloridasean (Feb 19, 2008)

The only thing with South Florida is that theres been a lot of stings in grow houses. I believe its because of the stealing of electricity most of the time though. Most people who grow have migrated north towards Atlanta, North Carolina, etc.... However it is & still will be done as always.


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## southfloridasean (Feb 19, 2008)

Youll absolutely love it down here. Im from NY & cant see myself going back right now. The climate is just to good.


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## PlasmaRadio (Feb 19, 2008)

Hey, Southfloridasean, I was watching cnn and they said you were stepping down? What's the deal, buddy?


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## southfloridasean (Feb 19, 2008)

Well he's not really stepping down. Hell still be on the council of the regime. His brother will be taking over the ranks as chief in command & commandant of the Cuban military.


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 20, 2008)

and the economic sanctions that haven't worked for Sixty years will stay in place. VV


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## southfloridasean (Feb 20, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> and the economic sanctions that haven't worked for Sixty years will stay in place. VV


Hey VV have you ever grown with the strain BIG BUD?


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 20, 2008)

No that would be WaffleHouseLover, he has some excellent shots up of the BC Big Bud I think. Extremly knowlegdable. VV


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## southfloridasean (Feb 20, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> No that would be WaffleHouseLover, he has some excellent shots up of the BC Big Bud I think. Extremly knowlegdable. VV


Thanks VV.


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## jJacKSon (Feb 21, 2008)

Hey VV! Subscribing to your journal  jJ


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 21, 2008)

jJacKSon said:


> Hey VV! Subscribing to your journal  jJ


Glad to have you, no plant knowledge here though and the only soil grow I ever did was the first one 5 plants, its been all hydro after that, first drip and then flood and drain. Next will probably be aero, if after visiting one I think I can handle it. As I said I would need all the meters, you might not. I'll be visiting yours later, hope you got up in time to get pics of what you bought??VV


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## ioplex (Feb 21, 2008)

Thanks for the Help. tagging along...


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 22, 2008)

ioplex said:


> Thanks for the Help. tagging along...


Welcome. I visited potroast's thread on hydro yesterday, he is using the same nutes as you, or at least recommending the Flora series. VV


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## SensiSmoker134 (Feb 22, 2008)

looks great man


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 27, 2008)

Soo..I received the seeds I didn't order Monday, looked like any other business envelope, I would order from PeakSeeds again. Thanx Potpimp for the recommendation. And these have arrived just in time for the contest. I am intending to start a journal and I think I have figured out how to put it in the journal section now. 
There are a couple of things I will be trying to accomplish with that journal. I am going to attempt to 'cost out' growing a plant from start to finish, using the nutrients and additives I am using. This is the IONIC series, started in the UK. I will be averaging the cost/ plant of course. I will be adding thier Green Fuse Growth additive, I already use the 'Fossil Fuel' and 'Boost' additives along with the Humic acids in the Grow and Bloom Nutes. I may use the 'Nitrozime' as a foliar feed and consider adding it to my regular regiment is I can afford to add all of the lights I would want. And I may increase the number of tables. Depends on how hard the blues are to grow. I have Blueberry, SKunkBerry and NorthernBerry, they are all supposed to be DJ Short varieties. I am hoping by midsummer I can have it all setup the way I would like it and still have some time left to help get the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act passed. The way it is written one caregiver can grow for 5 patients, 12 Maturing Plants and 2 1/2 oz of dried bud per patient. You are not allowed to make a profit, you are allowed to recover 'reasonable expenses'. I can work with that. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 28, 2008)

I...uhh started Germinating those seeds late Monday night. Today a couple had tap roots an inch long. 14 of the 30 have been planted about four hours ago, one is already pushing up and all of the rest of the seeds look like they will be ready by sometime today. Of course I took pictures, just can't show them yet, this computer doesn't have the right hookup for my camera.
I got another new toy today as well. New daddy and I went to the University Surplus Store. He had seen a couple of boxes there he thought would be good for drying bud. They had been sold so we looked around a little. Would you believe it, they had these cabinets about 7' high 2' by 3'. So I opened the door to look inside. And there was a big electric control panel inside, not hooked up. Hmmm...look at the top and there are three fans mounted in the top of the cabinet and louvered vents. The fans plug into one of two sixteen space power bars in the cabinet, both sides open and have a magnetic sealing door with plexiglas panels in them. Its on casters and I can easily move it around myself. Has a few shelfs in it. The bottom of the cabinet is open to allow air to flow through. And its designed to be as dust proof as possible which means a controlled air flow, like the chimney. 
New Daddy thiught it would be a good idea, a little more than he had anticipated, otherwise perfect. I don't think I could make this quality of cabinet for any less and the fans are whisper quite. If you live by a University you might want to check it out. After all Computer Server Cabinets are designed to keep many servers cool and as dust free as possible. With some of that carbon filter stuff i got at Menards for the bud dryer I will have one kick ass drying cabinet. Of course I can't show those pictures yet either. hahahahahaha. I do so have a sense of humor. A little wierd but hey you know old people. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 28, 2008)

As promised....Modification will be posted. VV


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## LoudBlunts (Feb 28, 2008)

wow vic, that looks good!!! was that a server cabinet or something before? i like the 'surge' protectors.... or mini portable power box...lol looks cool!!!


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 28, 2008)

Yes the computer server cabinet was originally used as a server cabinet for computers. The control panel has two switched and two non switched circuits and I thing some 24 volt three pin plugs. I opened it up, its wild in there. You could make a cfl light strip out of the power bar, it has sixteen slots, and surge protection. The University get the best quality equipment, and I don't think anyone would be suspicious about a Server Cabinet, it opens from both sides and has space for all the cords you could ever want for a growing cabinet with the exhaust fans already in place, these are not cheap fans, and they are already wired to just plug into a 110 volt outlet, what more could you ask for. Ohjh yeah, its a locking cabinet too. VV


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## LoudBlunts (Feb 28, 2008)

did you get it for free?


sounds like the dream drying bud box!

i know you will modify it will justice!!!! dont let us down!!!! we want pics!!!!!! b/c you know we love pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 28, 2008)

No I didn't get it for free. I paid $175.00 for it. The electric panel, fans and power bars would cost that much so maybe I got the cabinet for free. It will depend on being able to use the 24 volt circuits which is what home thermostats use. I think its tall enought to allow me to hang the colas and use trays for the smaller buds. We think we can get all of one harvest in it. Will find out real soon. VV


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## HazyEyes (Feb 29, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> No I didn't get it for free. I paid $175.00 for it. The electric panel, fans and power bars would cost that much so maybe I got the cabinet for free. It will depend on being able to use the 24 volt circuits which is what home thermostats use. I think its tall enought to allow me to hang the colas and use trays for the smaller buds. We think we can get all of one harvest in it. Will find out real soon. VV


OOO VV how are those plants looking man i bet they are realy starting to crisp up now what you got 2 weeks tops??

Any pics ...we love pics


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 29, 2008)

yes they are, some will start coming down this weekend. I guess we will have to put that cabinet to work, darn it. VV


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## HazyEyes (Feb 29, 2008)

Sounds good man you need to update us.


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 29, 2008)

You mean like these?? This is the closest I have been to a uniform plant size. There isn't three inches of difference from tallest to shortest. And they all seem to have a nice merristem cola. They have around five weeks left. The fourth pic has about 7 weeks and the last two are on the test table, I think they are real close. What do you folks think?? VV


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## HazyEyes (Feb 29, 2008)

VV you blow my mind you make the most amazing cola's they are huge man.
That red blue mix bulbs look wicked i am still running my blues i realy wana ge some reds.


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## ioplex (Mar 1, 2008)

in about 7days my first set of clones are going into the first of 4 flowering tables. I have been modeling AL B Fuct'd grow and yours VV. I have 4 of those same 4ft fixtures. with a Mix of half red half Blue. My setup is in a sealed room just AC. I also Have a Co2 Controller mounted where I just dial in the ppms and it holds whatever level I set. I cant wait to see how things turn out. 

Thanks again VV for your help.

oh yea Ill post some pics once I have a Flowering Table Running.


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## GoodFriend (Mar 1, 2008)

can we get some more picks of this one?






it looks crazy!

good growing fried...
what strain again?


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 1, 2008)

Well it does have about 5 weeks to go so it will probably show up again. You will notice it is propped up, it almost fell over when I picked it up, I just about shit, grabbed some wire ties and secured it to that 5/16" dowel and then took like four wire ties together to tie the branches up a little. As soon as I harvest 12 of the others I will spread these tables out more leaving just 9 or less per table. I have to look I think Crystal. Or widow, I'll check when the lights come on tonight. 
You will have to pattern after Al's not mine if you need to run air conditioning, I have to run heat. Have you posted details of you co2 system. VV
VV


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## mastakoosh (Mar 1, 2008)

vv i have been subscribed all along and think your grow area is one of my favorites. i am consistently impressed by your skills.


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## mattso101 (Mar 1, 2008)

those are some wicked colas! I like it! cant wait to see that huge on in a few weeks!


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## LoudBlunts (Mar 1, 2008)

cmon victor....lets get started on that bud dryer! i know you will do it justice!

im jealous! that is a very good idear. i've been pondering for a minute now about the material of my bud box that i wanted. I was going to use a rubbermaid tote.... but i started thinking about wooden camping trunks and such.

the used server cabinet was a great find!!!!!!


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## HotNSexyMILF (Mar 2, 2008)

mastakoosh said:


> vv i have been subscribed all along and think your grow area is one of my favorites. i am consistently impressed by your skills.


 I've been watching this since it was posted.. ive been silently amazed


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## PlasmaRadio (Mar 2, 2008)

Isn't "hot and sexy" redundant when talking about a milf? I would already like to fuck her.


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 2, 2008)

not to me, hot means she wants me, sxy means she may get me, uhhh theoretically. I am a one woman man. I always believe we will both be lucky. And yes I laughed. Thanx for all the comments folks, be sure and check my journal in a few weeks. Just posting the seeding process and so forth now. Kinda boring for most of you. VV


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## mastakoosh (Mar 2, 2008)

you did say "theoretically" lol, and i dont blame you.


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 2, 2008)

Yes I did , the period came before the I am a one woman man. Did you know 90% of divorceses end in marriage. It's not the instituion that is bad, sometimes just the wrong people. VV


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## mastakoosh (Mar 2, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Yes I did , the period came before the I am a one woman man. Did you know 90% of divorceses end in marriage. It's not the instituion that is bad, sometimes just the wrong people. VV


 correct, i read it wrong. i thought it said theoretically i am a one woman man. i guess i read into it what i was thinking lol.


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## PlasmaRadio (Mar 4, 2008)

I was only surmising that a Milf would have to be either hot or sexy or both to be categorized as a Milf.

Also, VV, you seem uncharacteristically defensive. She's not your mom is she?


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 5, 2008)

Actually she is the same age as one of my wifes daughters. You would have to multiply HotSexyMilf's age by three and add one to get to my age....until May. VV


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## PlasmaRadio (Mar 5, 2008)

I got 126... wait, that can't be right. I should have paid attention in school, I never really got a hold of "carrying ones."


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 6, 2008)

You know how it is with old people, by the time they get thier shit together...they can't remember where they put it?? I have mentioned the first two White Widow plants I had, thought I had lost all of the pictures. Soo..today I was going thru the pictures I have, you know the ones that are a year old and say things like 'Clones', no date, no description etc. and look what I found. That is a banana box they are hanging in. I want THAT plant back. New Daddy is the only one that actually saw it. He understands, that one competes with SeeMore's. How do I put that in my avitar or should I. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 6, 2008)

A little history, that plant was in the first big grow I attempted. When I came back from vacation it had so many spider mites the crown of the cola looked like a spider web, the temps were close to 100 and the fungus gnats were having a feast on the roots. I didn't think twice about it, I went and got some insecticide and sprayed them, and did it again three days later, and then again at a week. Neem oil will not hurt your plant and will rinse off with a few mistings of the plants. Looking at that picture, I think I did the right thing, well not THE right thing that would have been weekly maintanance to avoid the problem in the first place, the right thing under the circumstances. VV


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## rockfish (Mar 6, 2008)

Hey VV,

Just wanted to say thanks for your time and effort to chronicle your experiences. This thread has been not only educational, but inspirational. I've subscribed to both of your threads.

Rock


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 6, 2008)

rockfish said:


> Hey VV,
> 
> Just wanted to say thanks for your time and effort to chronicle your experiences. This thread has been not only educational, but inspirational. I've subscribed to both of your threads.
> 
> Rock


Thanx Rock, I figure with all the mistakes I make, if I can do it anyone can. The harvest of the test table has begun. These first three went pretty well.


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 6, 2008)

Here is the third one. I wanted to show the difference from top nodes and bottom nodes. The two on the left are the bottom two nodes and the two on the right are the two from right below the cola. As you can see I probably should have trimmed a few more nodes off the bottom a few months ago. This one, the 8th node kinda developed a secondary cola. Enjoy. VV


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## sk3tch3 (Mar 6, 2008)

looking awesome as always. cheers


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## GoodFriend (Mar 6, 2008)

wow... thats a beautiful harvest friend!
hope it smokes as well as it looks =]


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 7, 2008)

> sk3tch3looking awesome as always. cheers





> lumberjack_ianwow... thats a beautiful harvest friend!
> hope it smokes as well as it looks =]


Thanx. I have kept track of the wet weight in four catogories to get some idea of yield, colas, good buds, ok buds and air heads. The air head and ok buds make up about 1/3 of the weight. If I had trimmed them early I may have been able to do better. VV


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## HazyEyes (Mar 7, 2008)

WoW VV my fucking mouth will not stop watering\
haha
Another amazing grow man that 9 inch cola looks yummy


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## mastakoosh (Mar 8, 2008)

yes impressive,showing us he gets it done lol...very well at that.


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## nastynate101 (Mar 9, 2008)

I was about to buy a 400 watt HPS, F THAT, I will send back my 6inch inline fan when it arrives and get a full spectrum 2ft T5 for my 5 plant bubbler in my 3ft wide cabinet, I will add a few LED panels in there for the hell of it


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## kornkid44200 (Mar 10, 2008)

i second nastynate, i got a 400w that i havent used yet cuz im still veggin bagseed on the search for a mother, but after seeing those colas, wish id of got a 8 bulb t5. im dying to see the results of real tight sog 12/12 stright from clone with a 4ft 8bulb. i bet it would be the bomb. guess i will after a few months when i can scrape together enough for a new light. keep up the good work VV.


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## panhead (Mar 10, 2008)

I love it when threads like this one come around,im drinking this info up like a thirsty camel.


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## HazyEyes (Mar 10, 2008)

HAHA isn't that funny like VV always say you can take a horse to water but you cant make him drink it haha  .VV didn't you have Ice aswelll how is she doing???


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## southfloridasean (Mar 10, 2008)

Looking nice VV.


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 10, 2008)

Thanx all, I just cut the first Ice last night. Close to an oz, which is better than I had done with that variety before. The drying cabinet seems to work well so maybe this time we can avoid that 'hey' taste. VV


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## HotNSexyMILF (Mar 10, 2008)

Lookin' good VV. =)



Btw. I'm a 1 man woman.. and i have a fiance so.. lol, we all know it's all tongue and cheek.  I had another sn before this one, but it never got activated or whatever, tried gettin someone to fix it- just made another account.. i dunno where the idea for the name came from..


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 10, 2008)

Yes I saw that out there when you said it, it didn't really matter to me, I already considered you an honorable person, being a single mother isn't easy, you seem to be doing fine with it, thats enough for me. I am a one woman man. I bet you have already guessed that. VV


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## ioplex (Mar 10, 2008)

VV . What is the starting PPM of your Res when U stick the rooted clones into the flowering table?


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 11, 2008)

ioplex said:


> VV . What is the starting PPM of your Res when U stick the rooted clones into the flowering table?


Well, I haven't done that yet. Al B Fuct Lays all of that out in his thread Get A Harvest Every 2 weeks. I haven't gotten to the point of taking clones from mothers, rooting them in 2 weeks and putting them in flowering. I have always had to have vegging time because of that. My plants are used too 1300 to 1400 ppm by the time they hit the tables. I drop it down too around 1100- to 1200 for a day or two, no adverse reaction Put it to the normal, ec 1.8 to 2.0. I think Al uses the canna line of nutes, it seems to me like his ppm's are the same, I copied him. VV


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## nastynate101 (Mar 12, 2008)

is there a cheap tester for PPM?


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## HazyEyes (Mar 12, 2008)

Your best bet is just to get a PPM meter man but you dont need one unless ur adding nutrients but if so u NEED one am going to buy one this week. i was playing the guessing game and it hurt my plants.


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 12, 2008)

nastynate101 said:


> is there a cheap tester for PPM?


Several. The cheapest one is to just follow manufactures directions for the amount to add and let your plants tell you. This is not practical for hydro. If you are in it for the long haul buy a good one. I am still using the BlueLab Truncheon I bought a year and 1/2 ago. $135.00. No probes that wear out. Just clean it once in a while and it adjusts for temperature. Takes almost a minute to 'stick' my four tanks. VV


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## nastynate101 (Mar 12, 2008)

I appreciate the info....


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## HazyEyes (Mar 20, 2008)

VV how is the curing going??? almost down??


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## bwinn27 (Mar 21, 2008)

i got my ppm from c.v.s for 10$ works awsome


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## bwinn27 (Mar 21, 2008)

heres a pic


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 21, 2008)

I got one today too, here's a pic. It was slightly more than $10.00 VV


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 22, 2008)

I think these pictures are from last Sunday. I lost one I had, I'll find it though. I found it, you didn't even know I lost it. Thats the way with old people, by the time we get our shit together we can't remember were we put it. MIght as well throw these others up. I have 9 plants on each of the tables now, and will go down to two tables as these get harvested. Enjoy VV


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## PlasmaRadio (Mar 22, 2008)

Bravo, sir. Those babies are going to produce some bubonic chronic.


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## scissorsneedfoodtoo (Mar 22, 2008)

Amazing, gives me hope with my new T5s. Can't wait to see the harvest on those tables.


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanx Plasma, Scissors. 
Today I put my new toy on action. Guess I should have had lessons on it. If you get one be sure to add your nutes to your RO water before you take your ph reading. I think? Soo.. here is what I did. First I took a ph reading of the water I was going to use, ph was 5.1. Hey I just bought ph up and down, I didn't hesitate, I added 1/2 tsp and bamm ph 5.8. Cool, added the nutes, ppm 600, additive's ppm 720, great, lets just check that ph one more time, wtf ph is now 6.3, oh shit. Throw that out, lets try this again. 
Soo... now with the reses we are talking 30 gallons of solution, you want to try and do this right. I had run just straight water for a day, a small flush to make sure the apparent nitrogen deficiency is a sign of maturing plants, not a nute lock out. 
Tank One PH 6.3 Add Nutes to 1370ppm, PH 5.2. Hmmmm.
ok lets see what happens with the additives. Now this is a little more than the $1.00 we spent watering the Blue. This is 80 oz of Bloom nute @ $13.60,
20oz of Fossil Fuel @ $4.00, 4 0z of Boost @ $1.04, 4 0z of Bloom Concentrate @ $5.00, 5tblsp Dark Energy @ $3.15, 2 1/2 tbspn. Super Thrive @ $3.35 for a total nute cost per tank of $30.14. If we mess up here, its $30.00 down the drain. Ok, lets see what super meter says. PPM 1460 PH 5.8 Temp 19c. Hmmmmm. 
Well maybe we lucked out once lets try it on table 2. Starting PH6.6 Add nute to 1400 ppm PH is now 5.3, add additives ppm is now 1520 PH 5.8 temp 17c ( just added fresh water). Wow. Now we could do a temporary budget. If you have 12 week flowering plants with bi-weekly res changes, using flood and drain you will have 6 (duh) res changes. 8 week flowering 4 changes. $180.00 and $120.00 respectively. For the operating budget you would figure your four tables, $120.00 every two weeks, a few tweeks here and there, so maybe $150.00. Guess I might as well get ready to go aero.lolVV


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## HazyEyes (Mar 24, 2008)

wow sounds like a job to me haha.. how much did that ph/ppm/temp gauge run you sounds every nice..one tool all you need


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 24, 2008)

HazyEyes said:


> wow sounds like a job to me haha.. how much did that ph/ppm/temp gauge run you sounds every nice..one tool all you need





> My new toy has been mentioned as a necessity for maximum yield in hydro. When I started, and tested my water it was ph 7 or higher, and I did the ph down stuff using the drops. This is not easy for some one partially color blind. I had to make decisions were I would invest what little money I had. I decided spending $200.00 for a reverse osmosis and getting a good EC meter would be better than getting the good ph meter and having to deal with the salt build up on pumps etc. Everyone has told me you can't grow plants without ph'ing the water. THe nutes change the water too a dark color, the drops won't work too good for ph'ing the water. And I was Growing 'some plants', so I stuck with my decision until I could afford to get the last one I should need as far as a portable tester goes. This wasn't what I was going to get when I went there, I was just going to get the BlueLab Ph Truncheon to match my EC meter. They are out of stock and will be for at least three months at the manufacturer and Peter made me a hard to refuse deal. Instead of the $220.00 I would have spent for the Truncheon and calibration solutions, I spent $50.00 more and got the works. According to Peter's brother, Scott, this tri meter would accept the probe from any tester including the one he uses with the $5000.00 system they have. Now we will see if I can figure out how to use it. Guess it will have to wait until I get those HSTTW's transplanted, the roots are hanging out the bottom. VV


Forgot I posted this in the Blue's thread VV


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## southfloridasean (Mar 25, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> I think these pictures are from last Sunday. I lost one I had, I'll find it though. I found it, you didn't even know I lost it. Thats the way with old people, by the time we get our shit together we can't remember were we put it. MIght as well throw these others up. I have 9 plants on each of the tables now, and will go down to two tables as these get harvested. Enjoy VV


What up VV? I like the strain that you have in the first picture. What is that? Its short & thick like a bigger version of lowryder. Looks like an indica IMO. Let me know.


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 25, 2008)

southfloridasean said:


> What up VV? I like the strain that you have in the first picture. What is that? Its short & thick like a bigger version of lowryder. Looks like an indica IMO. Let me know.


That is the last table of the clones from the White Widow and Crystal I had in my first big grow, like July or August of 2006. After all the stuff I went through to take clones from flowering plants and revert them back. These would be like 6-8? generation. This is the most symetrical table of plants I have ever had. VV


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## southfloridasean (Mar 25, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> That is the last table of the clones from the White Widow and Crystal I had in my first big grow, like July or August of 2006. After all the stuff I went through to take clones from flowering plants and revert them back. These would be like 6-8? generation. This is the most symetrical table of plants I have ever had. VV


Yes the balance is extremely good. Most white widows that I have seen are pretty long but yours are just right.


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 25, 2008)

The blue's look shorter and more 'bushy'. VV


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## southfloridasean (Mar 25, 2008)

Hey VV I just did some research on the Crystal. Its cross with white widow & northern lights. Seems like a good sog strain.


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## southfloridasean (Mar 25, 2008)

The only thing is the flowering period is 9 weeks, pretty long.


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## PlasmaRadio (Mar 26, 2008)

I usually add a week or two to seed site predictions... I don't know if it is my growing style or wishful thinking on their part.


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 26, 2008)

Both, Plasma and I agree. Yes south, I started with all of those from one seed company, White Widow, Ice Crystal and Northern Lights. VV


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## southfloridasean (Mar 26, 2008)

Thx for the input guys but production can be shorter in a aerosystem in a sealed room. CO2, temps & humidity just have to be dialed in. I saw some guys on ICMAG tearing it up in sealed growrooms. One guy stoney419 from ICMAG had a 4 x 8 flood & drain table with a total of 128 plants in 6x6 buckets & hydroton with only two 600 watt lights & he got close to 4 lbs dry weight.


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## southfloridasean (Mar 26, 2008)

Im actually startingtolike the flood & drain, it seemspretty easy to handle compared to aero. A lot less energy.


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 26, 2008)

Yeilds are lower too. VV


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## southfloridasean (Mar 27, 2008)

VV did you mean that the yields are lower in flood & drain?


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 27, 2008)

yes I do. They flood and drain is easier to work with IMO, the aero will probably be the next system I try. Probably not for a year or so, I want all of the rest of the room done first. 
When I checked the vital signs on the three flowering tables today, I was suprised. all of them were at 5.9 ph, the nutes are in range and the temps are at 19c. I guess I have it dialed in,...... maybe? VV


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## southfloridasean (Mar 28, 2008)

Thats the great thing about flood & drain VV. I saw one grower who didnt change is res for almost three weeks. When I try the flod & drain Im doing it big. 4 x 8, 5 inch pots, total of 160 plants sog, light mover with two 600s 8 nches from the plant tops. Strain of choice is THC bomb, big bud or mazar. Probably go with bigbud as its real easy to grow.Sealed room with CO2 & soler & palau inline fans.


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## HazyEyes (Mar 28, 2008)

southfloridasean said:


> Thats the great thing about flood & drain VV. I saw one grower who didnt change is res for almost three weeks. When I try the flod & drain Im doing it big. 4 x 8, 5 inch pots, total of 160 plants sog, light mover with two 600s 8 nches from the plant tops. Strain of choice is THC bomb, big bud or mazar. Probably go with bigbud as its real easy to grow.Sealed room with CO2 & soler & palau inline fans.


well when u do u need to make a journal or something so we can watch but i dont know 160 is a risk to be posting shit i think ha ha but i still wanna watch


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 28, 2008)

southfloridasean said:


> Thats the great thing about flood & drain VV. I saw one grower who didnt change is res for almost three weeks. When I try the flod & drain Im doing it big. 4 x 8, 5 inch pots, total of 160 plants sog, light mover with two 600s 8 nches from the plant tops. Strain of choice is THC bomb, big bud or mazar. Probably go with bigbud as its real easy to grow.Sealed room with CO2 & soler & palau inline fans.


I have consider that size, problem is I don't have room for four of them. My concern would be the size if the res needed. You would have a lot of medium so maybe it would have to be as big as I think. That is one of the advantages of the nft, dwc and aero, smaller reses than what is needed to flood the whole table at once. 
If I were using that size of table I would probably want three lights wide to cover it. My tables are 32" wide, so three of them, 160 plants..?? VV


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## southfloridasean (Mar 28, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> I have consider that size, problem is I don't have room for four of them. My concern would be the size if the res needed. You would have a lot of medium so maybe it would have to be as big as I think. That is one of the advantages of the nft, dwc and aero, smaller reses than what is needed to flood the whole table at once.
> If I were using that size of table I would probably want three lights wide to cover it. My tables are 32" wide, so three of them, 160 plants..?? VV



Hey VV well I would use 2 4x4 tables with 40 gallon tote for each table. Im considering not using any rockwooll at all & just going with the plant & straight hydroton in the 5 x 5 buckets.


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## southfloridasean (Mar 28, 2008)

VV I just found a 115 gallon re made by American Agritech for $200. Way to expensive for a piece of plastic. Im sure they also make 50 gallon totes for 3/4 the price.


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 28, 2008)

southfloridasean said:


> VV I just found a 115 gallon re made by American Agritech for $200. Way to expensive for a piece of plastic. Im sure they also make 50 gallon totes for 3/4 the price.


That was my point. 80 gallon reses are not cheap. The res and cover cost as much as two seperate 4'x4' tables will. The cheaper ones are not strong enough to take the sideways and down pressure of a few cubic feet of water. There is a way to accomplish this, build two tables, stack them on top of one another, the bottom one would slide out, like a drawer, when empty, for cleaning and would be deep enough to compensate for the height of the pump. Plumbing with quick disconnect. Basiclly build a box of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood, line it with pond liner and make your own res. I have been thinking about doing this for some time now, just lazy I guess. VV


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## southfloridasean (Mar 28, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> That was my point. 80 gallon reses are not cheap. The res and cover cost as much as two seperate 4'x4' tables will. The cheaper ones are not strong enough to take the sideways and down pressure of a few cubic feet of water. There is a way to accomplish this, build two tables, stack them on top of one another, the bottom one would slide out, like a drawer, when empty, for cleaning and would be deep enough to compensate for the height of the pump. Plumbing with quick disconnect. Basiclly build a box of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood, line it with pond liner and make your own res. I have been thinking about doing this for some time now, just lazy I guess. VV


Your absolutely correct with that idea VV. Trust me those prices on those Reservoirs are


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 16, 2008)

I haven't been putting a whole lot of time into this dryer, it was adequate for hanging plants to dry right out of the box, so it hasn't been a 'high priority'. I have managed to put carbon filters top and bottom. Those three premounted framed fans at the top create enough air flow to keep the door shut, the temp around 72 and the humidity around 55%. Room at the bottom for a couple of 'curing' jars, and still have room for some drying racks should they be necessary. I like it. VV


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## highdro (Apr 26, 2008)

Please keep us informed.im trying out some t5s on small veggin and cloning room.don't have enough lights I think.maybe when they come on ill get some pictures.see what u think?


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 26, 2008)

highdro said:


> Please keep us informed.im trying out some t5s on small veggin and cloning room.don't have enough lights I think.maybe when they come on ill get some pictures.see what u think?


Hey highdro, welcome to our group. We have a contest of sorts going on and I started a new journal for that. THe harvest from the test table was a little over 18 oz from 12 plants, a few of them were close to 2 and some were around 1 oz. I still have one table of the widows left, they will be coming down this week. Soo... its kinda like my current setup isn't current anymore. The other thread has more information on the step you would take to go from seed to weed. Stop and take a look, hope you like it. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 29, 2008)

I have this problem. The bud won't fit in the jar. Now wtf do I do with it. VV


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## regrets (Apr 29, 2008)

Toss it. That one is just too big, if you can't fit it in the jar, how are you supposed to fit it in a bowl or a joint.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 29, 2008)

I agree, its in the trash. VV


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## southfloridasean (Apr 29, 2008)

Looking good vv.


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 29, 2008)

I found a bigger jar, a tight fit but its in there. Maybe we could make a vaporizer out of it. VV


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## tokintwin (Apr 29, 2008)

plz tell me their kiddin tellin u to toss that bud


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 29, 2008)

they are kidding. They know I would never do that. VV


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## PlasmaRadio (Apr 29, 2008)

Dude, I just finished my lollipop grow, I got one main cola the is 16cm long, as wide as red bull can the whole way. Dense shit too. I was thinking it was interweb worthy and you have to go and put up pics like that. Back to the damn drawing board.


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## HazyEyes (Apr 29, 2008)

HAHA VV i love them buds MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 29, 2008)

PlasmaRadio said:


> Dude, I just finished my lollipop grow, I got one main cola the is 16cm long, as wide as red bull can the whole way. Dense shit too. I was thinking it was interweb worthy and you have to go and put up pics like that. Back to the damn drawing board.


..there you go, that one in the picture is not dense like yours, its a fluffly top. That whole thing is just over an oz 28.8 grams dry. My next grow will be even smaller, I have been trying to learn to trim off the bottom 1/3 of the plants so I can get those dense buds everyone else gets. Guess its like Al B says, there is something counterintuitive about cutting off perfectly good flowering. It's a good thing FDD and fletch etc. back him up on it or I would agree with him, its still in the hypothisis stage, he's only been doing it that way for 8 years or so, still working on it. And of course it is the best looking one so far, so its kinda like cheating to just show that one. VV


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## HazyEyes (Apr 29, 2008)

Wait what cutting back the bottom, makes for better top growth?? hmmm did not know that. is there a specific method of doing this or can i get my chain saw??


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 29, 2008)

That is what a sog grow is all about. If you haven't yet you need to view Al B Fucts Journal, Get A Harvest Every To Weeks. It's required reading. Just the first 10 or twelve pages and of course A Batch of Clones In Rockwool as well. He has this theory he has been working with for the last 8 years or so. When I started viewing his method he was harvesting 13 to 16 oz every two weeks with an 8-9 week flowering plant, Sweet Tooth #4. Now he is averaging 24 zips every two weeks, maybe more, I haven't looked at the fiqures since he installed the cool tubes on his lights which should be another improvement. I can't catch him because he won't stand still. But, I do have some plans of my own forming. He better watch his back, I am coming for him. LOL. VV


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## HazyEyes (Apr 29, 2008)

HMM iv looked at his thread before i must of missed that part


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## VictorVIcious (May 2, 2008)

Look at DirtBags, he calls it Limbing. Thats when he takes his clones. If I am seeing it correctly he has his clones in the flood table for about two weeks, then vegging for about four weeks. Then he limbs them puppies. The colas will get all of the attention that way. VV


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## PlasmaRadio (May 3, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Look at DirtBags, he calls it Limbing. Thats when he takes his clones. If I am seeing it correctly he has his clones in the flood table for about two weeks, then vegging for about four weeks. Then he limbs them puppies. The colas will get all of the attention that way. VV


Cool. That might work well for me.

Are there posts that deal with the specifics of "limbing"?


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## VictorVIcious (May 3, 2008)

Al B shows lots of details in his cloning thread of the kinds of cuttings he take. AND shows pictures of two week, four week, six week and 8 week flowering plants periodically. The last time was to illustrate the result he is getting from a sulpher 'burner'. DirtBagBrian has some great before and after pictures of 'Limbing' in his thread. I think his are about 3' tall when he limbs them. He does have pictures of his cloning setup and I am working on getting him to post more details. The 'Criplet' is finally able to post pictures in his thread, he should be doing a hydro style clone to Sun something potting mix transplant in his next few posts, I will be watching for that. VV


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## PlasmaRadio (May 3, 2008)

Interesting.

I've been meaning to ask, what the hell does that sulfur burner actually do? I can't tell if its a co2 thing or an air cleaning thing or something complete different.


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## VictorVIcious (May 3, 2008)

Al uses the sulphur burner to control powdery mildew. He says it really stinks, it works. VV


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## Isthisyourspecialbush (May 4, 2008)

Thanks vv your thread has been very helpfull. I've been doing a lot of research here and it seems like the majority say fluors are junk. I have one 4' t5ho 6 blb and it seems to work well but i was skeptical about using them to flower. from what i see here I'm gonna pick up another 4' 6 blb and a 4' 8 blb. Do you think mixing the bulbs 50/50 is best or using more blue for veg and more red for flower? I was thinking of using 1 or 2 blues w/ the reds and 1or2 reds w/the blues. I hope my grow turns out as good as yours, gonna try hempybuckets for the first time.


happy growing

ps the best price i found on t5's are at htgsupply.com


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## PlasmaRadio (May 4, 2008)

Powdery Mildew? Sounds common, yet I have never heard of it.


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## VictorVIcious (May 4, 2008)

I hadn't either, common in Australia. Al has mentioned it as a problem many times. Don't know the scientific name, I pretty sure he mentions it and then aka powdery mildew. VV


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## VictorVIcious (May 4, 2008)

Isthisyourspecialbush said:


> Thanks vv your thread has been very helpfull. I've been doing a lot of research here and it seems like the majority say fluors are junk. I have one 4' t5ho 6 blb and it seems to work well but i was skeptical about using them to flower. from what i see here I'm gonna pick up another 4' 6 blb and a 4' 8 blb. Do you think mixing the bulbs 50/50 is best or using more blue for veg and more red for flower? I was thinking of using 1 or 2 blues w/ the reds and 1or2 reds w/the blues. I hope my grow turns out as good as yours, gonna try hempybuckets for the first time.
> 
> 
> happy growing
> ...


The hydro shop I visit did the research. They found 1/2 red 1/2 blue for the entire grow gives the best yield. Jeff has been in the hydro business in that same location since 1983. Thats good enough for me. Many of us have bought from htg, I am not one of them. I have seen reports both ways, just means people are people, be nice you get treated nice, and they do seem to take care of most problems. I believe in doing busines locally when you can, saves shipping charges. If there was a big difference I would be inclined to tell them what I can order if for, and when I would likely get it. They have always ended up with the business. 
The Hempy Buckets is an ebb and flow system I think, res and a controller, two pumps, two timers, maybe one is a float not a timer. The fitting I use for my 'Sight Level' is one for a Hempy Bucket' type set up. No problems with it so far. 
I like the system, the pots are bigger than I want to use. I am convinced you can produce more bud growing sog and one plant per square foot isn't sog. You will get good results with the system. You will need to check it often. Clay pellets don't hold water for long, a pump failure unnoticed for more than a day could be fatal. I am sure this won't be a problem for you, you will be checking them at 'least' once a day.lol
I haven't seen many say the are junk, I have seen them say only for vegging, clones, etc. Know one has stopped by to correct me for saying I am getting the result that you can get with a 600watt hid using a 440watt t-5 with less heat issues. I am still waiting for someone to notice the lights I have over the tables right now. I only have 25 flowering plants , couldn't see have that few on three tables. The t-5 lights I have are 18" wide, my tables are 32" inside dimensions. I wonder what would happen if you put (2) 4'-8 tube t-5 lights over one table that is 32" x 4'. Could you match a 1000wattHid? Or would you need a 4' x 4' table to do it? VV


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## Isthisyourspecialbush (May 4, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> The hydro shop I visit did the research. They found 1/2 red 1/2 blue for the entire grow gives the best yield. Jeff has been in the hydro business in that same location since 1983. Thats good enough for me. Many of us have bought from htg, I am not one of them. I have seen reports both ways, just means people are people, be nice you get treated nice, and they do seem to take care of most problems. I believe in doing busines locally when you can, saves shipping charges. If there was a big difference I would be inclined to tell them what I can order if for, and when I would likely get it. They have always ended up with the business.
> The Hempy Buckets is an ebb and flow system I think, res and a controller, two pumps, two timers, maybe one is a float not a timer. The fitting I use for my 'Sight Level' is one for a Hempy Bucket' type set up. No problems with it so far.
> I like the system, the pots are bigger than I want to use. I am convinced you can produce more bud growing sog and one plant per square foot isn't sog. You will get good results with the system. You will need to check it often. Clay pellets don't hold water for long, a pump failure unnoticed for more than a day could be fatal. I am sure this won't be a problem for you, you will be checking them at 'least' once a day.lol
> I haven't seen many say the are junk, I have seen them say only for vegging, clones, etc. Know one has stopped by to correct me for saying I am getting the result that you can get with a 600watt hid using a 440watt t-5 with less heat issues. I am still waiting for someone to notice the lights I have over the tables right now. I only have 25 flowering plants , couldn't see have that few on three tables. The t-5 lights I have are 18" wide, my tables are 32" inside dimensions. I wonder what would happen if you put (2) 4'-8 tube t-5 lights over one table that is 32" x 4'. Could you match a 1000wattHid? Or would you need a 4' x 4' table to do it? VV


 
Considering this guy was doing hydro when i was still shitin my pants I'll take the advice, 50/50 it is. I wish I could shop local,the nearest shop is 100+ mi. When I do make the trip It is worth it though, not wso much in prices but the knowledge these people have is insane. I don't know if the two t5's would match the 1000 HID but they would fit w/ some overhang. maybe you could try a small shelf on the edge of your tables to catch that extra light. I forget how your system is set up but it might work. The hempy bucket is simply a bucket W/ a hole 2" up, creating a reervoir. I'm using 4 parts perlit to 1 vermiculite in a 5 gal buk and a drip system for less maintinence. Got my clones rooting so it won't be long, I'm hoping for the success you've had only 1/2 scale.




wish you many lb's happy growing bush


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## VictorVIcious (May 5, 2008)

Isthisyourspecialbush said:


> Considering this guy was doing hydro when i was still shitin my pants I'll take the advice, 50/50 it is. I wish I could shop local,the nearest shop is 100+ mi. When I do make the trip It is worth it though, not wso much in prices but the knowledge these people have is insane. I don't know if the two t5's would match the 1000 HID but they would fit w/ some overhang. maybe you could try a small shelf on the edge of your tables to catch that extra light. I forget how your system is set up but it might work. The hempy bucket is simply a bucket W/ a hole 2" up, creating a reervoir. I'm using 4 parts perlit to 1 vermiculite in a 5 gal buk and a drip system for less maintinence. Got my clones rooting so it won't be long, I'm hoping for the success you've had only 1/2 scale.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have been thinking about making some panels with mylar on them to go around the sides of the tables to reflect that spill over light back on the plants. 
I am a little confused here, maybe I should look at a Hempy Bucket. Its not part of a recirculating system and you are going to use drip for less maintanance? There are a few drippers that don't require weekly cleaning. Its not real tough. Just remove them and soak them for about 20 minutes in plain white vinegar every week, more often if you have hard water. 
If you haven't done so please start a journal and put some pictures in there, send me a link, sounds like an interesting project. VV


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## HazyEyes (May 5, 2008)

Hempy Bucket are the shit never tried it but have donw alot of reading up on it i will probaly do this method for my next op.


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## Isthisyourspecialbush (May 5, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> I have been thinking about making some panels with mylar on them to go around the sides of the tables to reflect that spill over light back on the plants.
> I am a little confused here, maybe I should look at a Hempy Bucket. Its not part of a recirculating system and you are going to use drip for less maintanance? There are a few drippers that don't require weekly cleaning. Its not real tough. Just remove them and soak them for about 20 minutes in plain white vinegar every week, more often if you have hard water.
> If you haven't done so please start a journal and put some pictures in there, send me a link, sounds like an interesting project. VV


 
A shower curtain type deal w panda plastic might work to, might be a heat issue though. If I knew how to put a link to a thread i would but if you type "the hempy collective" under the search it should come up. right now i have a green genie auto waterer. It's battery powerd and says it waters up to ten plants, haven't tryed it out yet. If it works well I'll get another or maybe try a gravity feed drip system. The cool thing about hempy is if you have a malfunc in your drip system it would take a few days to harm the plant(each plant has it's own reservoir to feed from) I guess i should stop hijacking your journal and start my own. Everything is piled in my bedroom right know (Grow room under construction) I'm gonna go out and get a usb cable and get everything situated and start my first journal. 


happy growning Bush


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## VictorVIcious (May 5, 2008)

Isthisyourspecialbush said:


> A shower curtain type deal w panda plastic might work to, might be a heat issue though. If I knew how to put a link to a thread i would but if you type "the hempy collective" under the search it should come up. right now i have a green genie auto waterer. It's battery powerd and says it waters up to ten plants, haven't tryed it out yet. If it works well I'll get another or maybe try a gravity feed drip system. The cool thing about hempy is if you have a malfunc in your drip system it would take a few days to harm the plant(each plant has it's own reservoir to feed from) I guess i should stop hijacking your journal and start my own. Everything is piled in my bedroom right know (Grow room under construction) I'm gonna go out and get a usb cable and get everything situated and start my first journal.
> 
> 
> happy growning Bush


Wish I would have thought of that, a journal of your own, wow, what an idea. I'm just jackin ya man its ok, you are helping me towards a goal I have, so its all good. 
I am not a computer guy, I can tell you what I do if I want to link something. Lets say I wanted to link VV to the hempy collective. I would go to one of VV's threads to make some comment about how sweet his room looks or some such slop in the advanced mode. Then I would go to whatever source would put me at the page I want to link. The best source for me is MyRollitup. I can check my Subscribed Threads and more than likely I am Subscribed to my journal, click on that, now you are at your journal. Put your cursor in the address bar and then right click, Copy. Go back to Post Response, left click in the text entry box, right click Copy. Now write your comment and ask me to take a look at the setup you have. 
As far as I am concerned there is nothing wrong with making comments about what you have or how your plants are doing, especially if you can do it within the context of the conversation, I have been known to jump a thread or two, not a problem. Just don't jump it to instruct the thread starter or flame them, I'm a happy camper. Again welcome, that name has got to go. lol. VV


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## HazyEyes (May 5, 2008)

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/59705-hempy-collective.html
here u go i love this thread


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## HazyEyes (May 5, 2008)

PlasmaRadio said:


> Powdery Mildew? Sounds common, yet I have never heard of it.


Powdery mildew is one of the most widespread and easily recognized plant diseases. Powdery mildews are most severe when the weather is warm and dry, and they affect virtually all kinds of plants: cereals and grasses, vegetables, flowers, weeds, shrubs, fruit trees, and broad-leaved shade and forest trees. Many plants have been developed to be resistant to or tolerant of powdery mildew. Succulent tissue is the most susceptible to infection

Powdery mildews are host specific -- they cannot survive without the proper host plant. For example, the species Uncinula necator, which causes powdery mildew on grape and linden, does not attack lilac. Similarly, _ Microsphaea alni_ affects elm, catalpa, lilac and oak but not turfgrass.
Powdery mildews produce mycelium (fungal threads) that grow only on the surface of the plant. They never invade the tissues themselves. The fungi feed by sending haustoria, or root-like structures, into the epidermal (top) cells of the plant. The fungi overwinter on plant debris as cleistothecia or mycelium. In the spring, the cleistothecia produce spores that are moved to susceptible host tissue by splashing raindrops, wind or Insects.



sorry for jumping in VV


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## Isthisyourspecialbush (May 6, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> Wish I would have thought of that, a journal of your own, wow, what an idea. I'm just jackin ya man its ok, you are helping me towards a goal I have, so its all good.
> I am not a computer guy, I can tell you what I do if I want to link something. Lets say I wanted to link VV to the hempy collective. I would go to one of VV's threads to make some comment about how sweet his room looks or some such slop in the advanced mode. Then I would go to whatever source would put me at the page I want to link. The best source for me is MyRollitup. I can check my Subscribed Threads and more than likely I am Subscribed to my journal, click on that, now you are at your journal. Put your cursor in the address bar and then right click, Copy. Go back to Post Response, left click in the text entry box, right click Copy. Now write your comment and ask me to take a look at the setup you have.
> As far as I am concerned there is nothing wrong with making comments about what you have or how your plants are doing, especially if you can do it within the context of the conversation, I have been known to jump a thread or two, not a problem. Just don't jump it to instruct the thread starter or flame them, I'm a happy camper. Again welcome, that name has got to go. lol. VV


 Don't be hatin on the name I love Bush If all goes well I'll be gettin some tonight.

I may have smoked myself retarded. when I read your instructions on posting a link it made my head hurt. I might have to call NASA for further instructions lol. I'll try again later when i'm sober.


Happy growing Bush


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## RandomJesus (May 6, 2008)

Good lookin' set up VV


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## HazyEyes (May 17, 2008)

A VV i have a question for you wise one, am about to buy a 8 bulber but my hydro shop has 2 8bulb t5s. they have the sunblaze which is around 400 and the New wave one that is 500, they both put out the same lumens but i quess the new wave is a little more spaced out then the other, BUT the other sunblaze has more of a intense beam of light is what he said. now do you have any suggetions on which i should get?? i am leaning toward the 400 one because its cheaper but wanted to hear what u would say. which do you us??


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## HazyEyes (May 17, 2008)

LOL never mind just ordered the sunblaze 8bulber from T5 Fluorescent High Bay Light 2 Bulb 108W 11" X 4' great deal 344.99 thats with bulbs ... cant wait for it.


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## blinkykush (May 17, 2008)

Hey VV, I wanted to comment on your amazing setup. Also I went ahead and picked up a 4' 8 bulb t5 and love it, dont know if you remember me asking you about sprouting but since i purchased this light I havnt had a single problem. Since reading this thread and seeing your awesome results with the t5's i have decided to keep my 400 hps in storage and just do half white half red bulbs. Question is would you recomend i put 1 blue 1 red etc.... or 4 (red) then 4(blue)? I guess ho do you have it,lol? thanks man great grow WOW! inspiration, I have my temps in that closet perfect and just know it will be tougher to manage with an hps.


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## HazyEyes (May 17, 2008)

you want 4 red 4 blue man me and vv and this talk along time along haha he said you get best results with that mix, i love to see more and ,more ppl using the T5........

THE REVOLUTION IS HERE!! now lets smoke some weed.


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## blinkykush (May 17, 2008)

yeah I posted a bit too prematurly lol, I just got to the part of the thread where he said that...thanks though. I am hoping I get the bud density that is rumured you dont really achieve with t5's compared to hps's. well see


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## blinkykush (May 18, 2008)

hey Hazyeyes quick question on putting 4 blue and 4 red do I rotate them around during the grow? B/c if their is a blue bulb on the end and red on the other then the plaints on each wont be getting one of the other spectrums right. I'm guesing VV must move the plants around or switch the bulbs.


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## HazyEyes (May 18, 2008)

Am sure he does rotate his plants but really man you dont have to, and about the bud density , if you want more thicker buds later on in ur grow you should start trimming off the bottom part of you plant this allows our plant to put all his juices into the top of the plant , making more juicy thick buds.

i feel like i steal VV thread sometimes


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## blinkykush (May 18, 2008)

yeah and i heard bud XL helps with getting all the nutrients from leaves to buds

I really like the point VV made in this thread when he mentioned the difference in Lumen output with hps's being a bit higher but if you have more output and have to keep the light 2 ft away compared to 2 inches with the T5 then it trully becomes a matter of preference than performance. and i have tried venting HPS's wall to wall and all that still couldnt get temps perfect, with my T5 i have it 78 sometimes spikes to 79 all the time


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## HazyEyes (May 18, 2008)

same here man my room never goes over 85 

in veg it was in the 70s and now during flowering its in the 80s but i think this is because the plants are so much bigger now


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## b549420 (May 18, 2008)

I have recently decided to build a hidden grow room consisting of three small rooms. I simply wanted my ideal in print for better clarity. The whole house itself is maintained really well (for security). I will be constructing using plywood,dry wall, and insulation. A portion of the kitchen (which contains the main entrance to the flowering room) will be closed off. Also creating the veg/clone room that will be covered in fluorescents. Since the space is relatively small in the flowering room, I will just be using (2) 600 watt Hps lights. The old entrance to the kitchen now covered up, and the new one on the other side of the wall, I'm ready to go to the other side of the house and close that off too. Creating yet another room that I will make out to be a computer room. The entrance to the grow will be through a vent underneath the desk. I don't mind crawling every once in awhile. The venting will be well taken care of with a window mounted A/c with auto temperature control. I want to run everything as cool as possible. The carbon scrubber and the outtake go straight into the attic. Which has a secret entrance aswell. I simply cover the window in the grow room with shades and then cut a hole in the plywood to custom fit the A/c. Insuring that no light nor smell can penetrate through the window. I'll have the ballasts mounted on shelves and my fans hanging from the ceilings. Attaching to the cold water in the bathroom next door supply's the drinks. Run these lines under the floor and up to your grow. In this case however, I will be taking the floors out of the flower room and replacing them with screen. This will let the run off easily hit the dirt. Rendering it worry free. Keep in mind that this is just in a nutshell and my more intimate designs will be kept private. Utilizing the SOG method with as many plants as possible. The computer room will be the control station of operations. Everything will be monitored from there while also concealing the location. In the attic above the grow I will apply thermal protection. In the future the room itself will grow bigger downward and out. Creating a lot of space to grow. The newly built extension of the room will be covered up by a brand new back deck. Growing aeroponically for the first foot and then in pots with dirt. I don't get all crazy about the nutes anymore. I simply use whats available in moderation. Usually a couple things I would like to keep private. Understand that this room is of course not ready and as of right now I have no camera. I have no clue when or how, but I shall post interesting pictures sometime in the future. This plan will be completed within the next 6 months. Also keep in mind this is fictional and won't actually take place.

p.s I would be curious to hear someone else's creative juices flow for a little while. Us growers need to be ahead of the pack. You do know where in a fight for the right.


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## HazyEyes (May 18, 2008)

make a journal man and we will watch


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## VictorVIcious (May 20, 2008)

Got any pictures, we like pictures. A picture is like a thousand words. If you do put them in your journal. VV


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## hothousemary (Jul 24, 2008)

I now have grow envy!!! scribed


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## VictorVIcious (Jul 24, 2008)

Scribing to this one won't get you to far, its pretty much closed. Well, getting ready to take clones tomorrow, gotta go check DirtBag Brians formula for cloning success again, I just picked up some of the Hygrozyme he recommends. Since he has 100% success and mine was only 85% there is room for improvement. VV


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## hothousemary (Jul 24, 2008)

lol unscribed


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## captain792000 (Aug 25, 2008)

Wow VV, what a read, I smoked more like 10 bowls, lol. learned a lot reading this old thread of yours. been reading for 2 days, lol. took a lot of notes. its awesome to see how far you have come with growing.your plants look fantastic to. after this low budget grow im doing, maybe Ill have to step it up a notch or 2. this thread has been a great learning experiance. definately going to be reading more of your stuff, thanks VV...


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 25, 2008)

Thanx, they men with the answers that are readily available starts at Al B Fuct and then goes to tlb group headed by the dirt bag. I really kind of abandoned this thread when I started the blues journal, the setup was no longer current. DOn't know why the link doesn't work. VV


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## Earl (Aug 25, 2008)

I find your journal 
and it already has 39 pages.







Thanks for the article.

It was a great honor for me to fly those old men around in the 9 oh 9

Every man choked up at the feelings the plane brought back, 
as we all did 
watching those memories moisten the eyes of these American Heros.

Keep em flying !


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 25, 2008)

I knew you would appreciate it. VV


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## havefungodumb (Nov 26, 2008)

how much are t5's and where you get them from?


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 27, 2008)

I paid $350.00 total including the bulbs, some have found them for less. I have not seen a reason to spend more and I have looked at some that were $100.00 more, not $100.00 of difference. VV


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## Earl (Nov 27, 2008)

4 foot, 8 lamp, T5 Grow light


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## 420weedman (Apr 8, 2009)

hey VV, i hear you had/have DP blueberry....
just wondering what your experience was with it ?
i ask cuz im working with it now also 
thanks !


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 9, 2009)

I did not have good luck with the BlueBerry, starting with the seeds. Only 4 of the 10 ever made it, two of them were male, if I remember right, and of the two that made it, one had problems by the second or third week. 
I have seen others say you need lower nutes early for the BlueBerry. I was running a production line so having special needs did not fit. PeanutButter mentioned to me that the BB is one of the plants that seems to have special property's for the oils he makes, so I pulled the last on I had out of full flowering and revegged it, a process of 3 months so far. Currently top watering, it still does not 'look right'. Some of the more recent leaves are single blade.
Now the NorthernBerry.......let me just say I am continuing to clone that strain. Don't have a clue what the yield will be, I have just about completed the change from 6" square pots to 3 gallon pots, longer veg period etc. not quite DirtBag style yet, I still have the flowering plants on flood and drain tables which limits the height I have available. 
Its hard to get yield numbers anymore. I have a couple of patients that primarily ingest Marijuana, they don't need it to be dry, and there seems to be a shortage of Medical Marijuana right now. I have dried and cut enough to give a pretty good estimate of what the 'dry weight' would be, pretty simple, you loss 75% during the drying and curing process, 112 wet grams is fair.
I would not post numbers based on that, I know I am getting more than 2 per plant. These are in the 3 gallon pots but...I transplanted them late, the roots pretty much stayed in the 6" square. Stop laughing DB or I am going to steal the chair. It did stop them from tipping over. 
With the passage of the Medical Marihuana Law here, as a Petient/ carecaregiver with 5 patients, I can legally grow up to 72 plants, And MHM laid out that plan. 54 plants in flowering 6 3' x 3' spaces. 9 vegging, 9 new clones, hits just right. Longer in veg than I was running and eliminate the mothers, DirtBag style. I don't think it will take me the same two years to climb this curve. Now if I just had some Northern Lights and Lemon Skunk to go with the Juicy Fruit and Northern Berry....... Pics on Monday, road trip starts at 4:00 today and I still need to review the material for the 'Introductory Class' I will be presenting tonight at the Jackson Compassionate Care Club, then drive to Fife Lake for my Mom's eye Doctor appointment, plan on making room for a mother that is going to a couple of patients in her area, that should keep me awake for the trip. 
Well.... I have been known for making long posts.lol VV


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## 420weedman (Apr 9, 2009)

word, i hope u dont mind ... here are a couple pics from mine.
did yours look similar in flowering ?

first clone













second clone now in there







i got the mother and a bunch more clones ... im just trying to figure out how to get it flowering strong


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## coopdevillan (Jul 10, 2009)

PlasmaRadio said:


> Powdery Mildew? Sounds common, yet I have never heard of it.


I have this white powdery mildew on the tops of my rockwool with drip feeders ? Any way to rid this ?


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## BudSlinger (Aug 5, 2009)

coopdevillan said:


> I have this white powdery mildew on the tops of my rockwool with drip feeders ? Any way to rid this ?


get cube covers asap..

High victor.... wanted to stop in and say hi...
looking forward to seeing you at the expo


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## VictorVIcious (Aug 5, 2009)

BudSlinger said:


> get cube covers asap..
> 
> High victor.... wanted to stop in and say hi...
> looking forward to seeing you at the expo


Looking forward to it. VV


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## GoldenGanja13 (Aug 27, 2009)

Very Nice VV. Very Nice.....


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## Earl (Oct 24, 2009)

Did you ever get your CO2 machine going ?
How is that working out ?


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## VictorVIcious (Oct 26, 2009)

I did put it in for a little while. Without the rest of the controls, I didn't see that much difference. I will use it again if I get the rest of the stuff. VV


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## Earl (Oct 27, 2009)

I've been watching a grow on another forum
and his veg phase has been impressive with the CO2.

I got some new lights and can't afford to add co2 right now
but i'm thinking it might be worth a try 
when I can spring for the equipment.
.


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## tonybanks420 (Nov 21, 2010)

What device is that providing your RO water? I like the rolling cabinet myself.


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 22, 2010)

tonybanks420 said:


> What device is that providing your RO water? I like the rolling cabinet myself.


Wow. You must be referring to the "Valve set" that I used to use. I bought that at Meijer's in the pet department. Used to distribute air to multiple fish tanks, 5 lines in total can run off of it, cost less than $5.00 at that time. The ro system output is a 1/4" line, very little pressure. 

Many changes in the room since those early days, still a lot of DIY. We recently changed nute lines and needed 7 reservoirs instead of the 5 we had been running. As long as your making changes might as well change it all, right?

We 'paired up' the reses, two control buckets per table and a 110ltr/min air pump, 12 lines, it is a beast. It works simple, the air pump goes off on a timer when the pump in the res begins to distribute water to the ebb and flow buckets and comes back on after the controller unit has emptied the water back to the control unit. I can tell it is 9:00 right now because the air pump just came back on and it sounds like a punch of coffee pots peculating.

We have 3 lines from each control bucket the pots, and we just put the air line a little ways into the water line. Slick as whale snot.

I really should have journal-ed all of that, the build was easy. We needed a table for the 2 controllers at each of 3 stations, and we wanted a shelf for the air pump. We made the back legs 60", cut holes in the table top and slid it down to match the 30" height of our tables. a 2x10 across the back legs, air pump sits on that. 

We picked up a timer at Menards, it has four circuits controlled by a mechanical timer and four outlets that are well... outlets. Mounted that across the top. Bought 2 3outlet 3' extensions and mounted them on the uprights. This allows us to use the timers we already have for the rest of the project. 

We have a digital timer plugged in the the left hand upright that controls the air pump, a two outlet digital timer on the right hand upright that controls the pumps in the reservoirs, and we plugged the pumps in the control buckets to the Timer/Outlet set up. 

If we unplug the unit for cleaning, we will have to pay attention, since it is a mechanical timer we will need to adjust it for however long it is unplugged. We will have to take some pictures??

List of expenses

3 air pumps, air line and air stones ...................................$320.00
3 Timer/Outlets 6-3 outlet cords.......................................$ 78.00
10 30 gallon barrels........................................................$ 64.00
Saw blades to cut the barrel tops off.................................$ 20.00 ( get extras)
Lumber 6 2x4's 1 4'x8' 1/2" plywood...................................$ 35.00 2-2x4's per table, table tops and covers for barrels (reses)
Handles for lids..............................................................$15.00
2 additional controller units..............................................$260.00 (this includes 2 pumps, two timers and all necessary plumbing parts)
Miscellaneous VV crap.....................................................$???.?? ( clamps for all cords, etc. safety first)

I guess the change was around $900.00. Guess it better work.lol VV


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## Ryandrums87 (Nov 22, 2010)

VictorVIcious said:


> I believe in doing business, as much as is economical with the local Hydro Shop. Mine does have a website, has been in business in that location since 1983 which is impressive.
> It should cost $340.00 or less out he door with bulbs included, 1/2 red, 1/2 blue. If there is not a local source then by all means contact www.superiorgrowers.com They have always given me excellent advice.
> 
> 
> ...


 
Hey guys your best bet on getting a t5 fixture and bulbs for a decent price is looking at your local electrical supplier they will be the cheapest other then buying right from the manufactorer


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## VictorVIcious (Nov 23, 2010)

I am really impressed. You folks are actually reading this thread, wow, thank you. I have another one that starts with new strains from seeds, made a few improvements along the way and our state, Michigan, passed a Medical Marihuana Law. That has kept me busy for the last two years and we really haven't had any time to write a new journal. 

Maybe the start of the new year? VV


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## MJ.ALCH3MIST (Nov 30, 2010)

Hey I have been browsing some journals and stumbled upon this one. Definitely an impressive setup (no doubt about that). I can attest to T5 lighting definitely proving its worth during the vegetative stage. I have the means so I do plan to do a test run on 1-2 girls all through budding. Anyways I was curious as to why those lights cost you $340? There are many cheaper sources via going to the sources to get the same exact bulbs/fixtures etc. If you are just plugging thats fine, but that is a high price.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 1, 2010)

At the time that this journal was written T-5's had just started being used. I paid $229.00 for the first one. I believe in doing business with local folks when possible, I don't shop around a lot. You can buy them for less. VV


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## Kruzty (Dec 6, 2010)

Well hell vv,,, been a spell since I yapped with ya. I still have that n/l tlb for ya from dirtbag. Need to pick yer brain on hydro and tables as I'm about ready to flip the grow over. I'm pullin 2 lbs every 10 days out of soil with runnin sets of 10 but watering this amont is getting ugly. Hey I started a journel here with a topsey turvey with that n/l tlb. You need to check that out as those make great places for our mamas. I also have been breading and have a evil ass purple strain I'd like you to try so shoot me a pm so I can get ya some beans, Earl too..... Lord been so dam long I could prolly wright ya a book hehehehehehe. Clubs still runnin and have 356 members now. Lord what a 2 year run we've had. Busy just dont say enough as ya know...... Free the weed brother,,, free da weed................

Thanks again for all yer help,,, I cant say that enough.............


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 6, 2010)

Well.....sounds like you are doing good, nice to hear from you. Earl has been here a couple of times and always asks about you. 

Roger and I still do the radio show, Straight Up,. Mondays from 5-7pm, www.justgoodradio.com 

And I still write an editorial for Michigan Medical Marihuana Magazine, December Issue is the first Anniversary for the magazine, Second for when our law became effective, still doesn't seem to have 'taken effect' as you know, folks are still getting arrested.

Hydro would be easy for anyone with your 'boat experience', if you want water to move uphill you have to pump it, gravity will put it back when you stop pumping. Stop by whenever you can, I believe you can see all you need to right here. With that kind of harvest numbers a visit to a local grow shop could accomplish the same thing, but they won't let you medicate.lol VV


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## Kruzty (Dec 6, 2010)

Yeah been doing fine on this end, mamas still having issues but we'll get threw it. I keep trying to get the show but it wont run on my computer so will have to get a new box after x-mas.. Yeah numbers are ok this way but watering is killin me. Be a hell of alot easier with a flood table. Did ya ever see good results out of co2 as I read in a ol assed thread where you where trying it. Thinking on adding that too after x-mas.
We need to plan that boat trip this summer as I got another big boat. This ones a 10 meter(33ft) chris craft so plenty of room to fish on. I needed another boat like I needed a hole in me head but this ones big enough for mama to stay on in the summer. 2 bedrooms, large galley and bathroom and a nice sized living room. She's 12.6 ft wide so tons of room to play. Gas will kill me as she holds 250 gallons but when ya own a boat like this ya dont worry about gas. Ya just pass them the plastic and start cry'in


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 7, 2010)

Sounds like a plan. So pretty much you have our camping trailer in your boat.lol We should go over to ChiTown and take Julie Falco for a ride. VV


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## Kruzty (Dec 10, 2010)

Oh she'll make the trip thats for sure. Be hard for her not to see us coming with that huge cloud of pot smoke coming off the back deck . Can ya belive it,,,, I finally got my venting done again . Now she's up the chimmy and gone . Runnin 4, 1 kers now in bloom and been having temp issues with it hitting 83. Should be back to 75/78 with the new vortex and venting.1. 6" for the lights and 1 just for venting the room. Temps been pretty good in that small of a spot as I'm only at 7x10 for bloom now with 4 1kers in there and no A/C. Hell of alot brighter in there now then with that silly 600 I started with. Went from that to 5600 watts, 1ker for veg, 600 watter for the breading sex tent and 4k in bloom. Power company just LUVS me now . Lil sand on the bloom room flooor and me beach chair and I'm back on da beach . What snow ????????????


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 11, 2010)

YeP, but I 'started' with 400's, so you did one better than I did. Remember Howard Mark's journal, 600 watt over each set of 6 plants? That is what we are working towards now. 
With the plant counts we were running, I had 2-1000's for every 8' of run. Now we are replacing those with 3-600's. Each one will have a 32" by 4' space to cover, 3 points of light instead of just 2. 
And we will be going to 8" venting, which according to the old 'pie r square' formula is almost 2 times the capacity of the 6" line.

Here's some pictures we took some time ago. This vegging room was the addition. Enjoy. VV


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 11, 2010)

Here are a few shots of what the flowering room looked like at that time. It looks a little better now.lol VV


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## MuntantLizzard (Dec 21, 2010)

Nice work, you've built a Very nice method.
I see you doing well in the future.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 23, 2010)

Well thanx Mutant, we have been working at it for about a year now. Few more tweaks here and there. VV


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## golosco (Feb 19, 2012)

wow this is so elaborate.... i am totally new at this. like legit, never been past germination. and i REALLY want to know more. I'll be trollin around this forum for a while ;P

edit:
VV, if you could and wouldnt mind sending me a message? you said you've only been at it a YEAR!? and you have that rediculous of a setup? share your wisdom. lol i just need to get kickstarted with the basics in a way i understand lol, cause idk what the heck a T5 is of half the stuff people have been commenting...


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## nyquilkush (Mar 4, 2013)

am runing flood/drain too how long u feed for can u come check my thread out i have pics up too thinks victor


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## Grow4tho187 (Mar 6, 2013)

where u bin!


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## VictorVIcious (Mar 11, 2013)

Well... for the last 4 years, trying to stop Michigan Patients from getting arrested. We have made progress, I used to have grow rooms, now we have a grow building. I may be around here more often now. VV


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