# High power COB -vs- hps vertical shoot out



## legallyflying (Mar 7, 2016)

Yo bitches, 
So ttystickk finally convinced me to give the new cree COB a try. Since we grow vert to maximize sq ft. In our warehouse I built a fixture designed to be used in a vertical setting... ergo omni directional light. 

Using cxb 3590 3500 80? CRI chips and 200 watt meanwell drivers. 12 chips total, 18" long and 4.5" wide heatsinks. 

Therefore, you end up with the 800 watt tower of power...


It will have a 150mm fan on the bottom of it for cooling even though the heatsink stayed touchable without any discomfort. 

Anywho... then we had to test this thing... will 800 watts out produce 100k of brand new hps bulbs? 

We currently have 3 40k watt flower rooms, vertical, checkerboard style. So all the plants on the inside of the grid have a 1k bulb on each side. So I took apart the tower of power and hung one panel on each side of a monster blue dream plant. They hang 12" from the plant. 

  

It's kind of hard to see.. because it's fucking big. The cage is 32" wide and 4' tall on each side. Turns out to be effectively like 23 watts per sq. Ft. 

The plants are like day 15 of flower, DWC in 10 gallon rubbermaids. 

It cost me about $800 to build this thing.

Do we are looking at around 45k to build a 50k watt room. On the plus side, our AC cost will be cut in half.. saving 10k. And our power bill.. around 12k per month should be 20% less which will save us around 27-28k a year... if all the rooms converted to LED. 

So, grab a chair, and we will see what happens. We will chop this plant aND another same sized blue dream in the hps, get them tested and weighed and finally see what is what.


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## Alienwidow (Mar 7, 2016)

Sounds like a good little investment to see if you could save a lot of carbon.


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## ttystikk (Mar 7, 2016)

Fucking awesome! I was able to make out the four lights around the plant. I think it's going to be epic!


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## Joedank (Mar 7, 2016)

epic .... glad your still pushing boundries ....


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## legallyflying (Mar 7, 2016)

I know one thinh, those fucking lights are BRIGHT!! I thought staring at a horti was bad.. I will say it is dope as fuck how little heat they radiate. 

We have pretty much decided that if they don't produce AT LEAST 2 LBS of prime flower they are going to be made into clone or preveg lights.


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## legallyflying (Mar 8, 2016)

Question for those that know more about leds than me... which is everyone on the planet except my parents.. 

What kind of relay would you need to build a large scale relay flip box. Because these fuckers have 4 ballasts each... we are talking about flipping 160 wires... 

But they are very low amperage.. so... 

Any tips greatly appreciated.


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## ttystikk (Mar 8, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> Question for those that know more about leds than me... which is everyone on the planet except my parents..
> 
> What kind of relay would you need to build a large scale relay flip box. Because these fuckers have 4 ballasts each... we are talking about flipping 160 wires...
> 
> ...


I'd recommend using banks of relays to operate groups of lights. In my case, I used a 50A circuit to power a Titan Controls Helios 8 box, which has two separate trigger cord controlled relays in it. I have a dozen modules, each pulling about 225W, on each relay. On my single phase 240V service, that's only 11A.... but when they kick on, the inrush current will momentarily cause a spike in amperage. Honestly, I'm not really sure how to calculate it, I just employed a lil overkill. That's why I run each side of my rack on a separate trigger, so I can fire them in sequence. No problems so far.


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## churchhaze (Mar 9, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> Question for those that know more about leds than me... which is everyone on the planet except my parents..
> 
> What kind of relay would you need to build a large scale relay flip box. Because these fuckers have 4 ballasts each... we are talking about flipping 160 wires...
> 
> ...


Just put the inputs in parallel and you can connect them to the same outlet(as long as the outlet can handle that much current). You could put all 4 of those drivers in parallel (the inputs) for one plug as long as it can handle 4 times the current.


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## nevergoodenuf (Mar 9, 2016)

churchhaze is right. Wire together 1000 to 1200 watts to one 14 gauge plug or quality extension cord and use your master light controller no different than HPS.


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## legallyflying (Mar 9, 2016)

I think I didn't make myself clear enough. I'm trying to run a flip type setup. So I don't need to control the power going to each ballast, I need to flip the output wires. So one ballast would ultimately power two sets of chips, one in each flower room. ...obviously not at t he same time


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## nevergoodenuf (Mar 9, 2016)

I think that would be a custom build, but I do see applications down the road as larger facilities change over. This is still only doable to those DIY setups or a light company that goes the remote driver route.


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## ttystikk (Mar 9, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> I think I didn't make myself clear enough. I'm trying to run a flip type setup. So I don't need to control the power going to each ballast, I need to flip the output wires. So one ballast would ultimately power two sets of chips, one in each flower room. ...obviously not at t he same time


I'm working on this.


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## legallyflying (Mar 9, 2016)

Well the set up for a flip is easy... it's a double pole, double throw relay. They are like 9 or 10 on ebay but I have only used the bigger 40 amp jobs for my hps set up. 
I'm wondering if you could use "cube" relays. They are much smaller and cheaper, still lookin for a multi cube kind of deal... 

I don't see anyway around not having 160 relays for a 40 light flip... there would be 160 ballasts.. 

Still wayyyyy cheaper than buying an extra set of 160 ballasts though. If I buy gear I want that shit to run 24/7. Not 12 hours a day.


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## legallyflying (Mar 9, 2016)

I THINK I might have found an answer.. at at least cut the number of relays in half. I could use a 4pdt relay. That is 4 poles
-- 2 pos and 2 neg-- and double throw meaning when the coil is energized it switches between the two.. not just closed or open like a contactor. 

Here is a pin out diagram for it..

So on this case.. 
9 ballast 1 out pos
10 ballast 1 out neg
11 balast 2 out pos 
12 ballast 2 out neg. 

1- 2 and 3- 4 would run to room A led chips and 5-6, 7-8 would run to ro B chips


No?


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## bubbler (Mar 12, 2016)

Nice setup. One thing to consider with going with a flip box on LEDs is that they run on much lower voltage than HIDs. I don't know how you wired your LED chips and what kind of drivers you are using. I'd recommend going for higher voltage and wiring them in series in case you aren't doing so already. 

The problem with this is that you loose voltage with high current and cable length. If you get a bit of voltage drop on supply end it doesn't matter, because you need to step it down anyways, and at 200W you have like 1A current. But on the secondary side, if you use 12V drivers for example, you have 12V and about 17A. So the voltage drop (on the same lenght of same gauge cable) is 17 times higher. And you only started with the 12V, so if you lose 3V on the cables that a serious problem for your setup. 

Its better if you're using 48V drivers, but i hope you catch my drift...

For the flip... Why not connect all the negative terminals and just switch the positive ones?


Another thing that came to my mind is that watch out for corroding contacts as they have no protection... I had problems before with this kind of LED set up (just screwed on a heat sink, usually they are behind an IP rated housing. 

Oh well i guess its a test run, so take it for a spin a see where it gets you. Sry for the long post.


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## THE KONASSURE (Mar 12, 2016)

I would not bother

led ballasts often don`t outlast cob chips in my experience saying that I don`t pay out for fancy meanwell ones

but yeah normally the chip can last 2 to 4 times the life of a driver so I would use more drivers

if its for a veg area I would just buy some cheap drivers and chips even the cheaper cob`s will out do anything else bar induction or 1w leds for veg

Shame to see you went with 800w per unit instead of 1000w the best thing I find about led is you can use upto double the power of hps in the same area before you have any heating issues, sure getting the power bill down is great but I`m an idiot I always opt for more light if that`s an option

Oh were you not tempted to cut off the protective silicone layer on the cob`s ?


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## legallyflying (Mar 14, 2016)

.... You opt for double the power,.likely because you didn't spend $80,000 on electricity last year  

I didn't see the protective coating.. 

Bubbler, for good point on cable length and voltage drop. 

I think those are 24v drivers... dunno? 

Tyystickk... what are they?


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## ttystikk (Mar 14, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> .... You opt for double the power,.likely because you didn't spend $80,000 on electricity last year
> 
> I didn't see the protective coating..
> 
> ...


I'm not the expert on all sizes and flavors, I'm afraid. I did not opt for remote drivers.


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## legallyflying (Mar 15, 2016)

Lol. Well you did tell me which ones to buy. I'll look at them and report back


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## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> Lol. Well you did tell me which ones to buy. I'll look at them and report back


The driver I'm running is 72V, and the others are 36V. That didn't seem to be the question you were asking?


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## legallyflying (Mar 15, 2016)

These....


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## ttystikk (Mar 15, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> These....


That's exactly the same model I'm using, yes. I run 4 CXB 3590 72V chips on one.

One could also run 8 CXB3590 32V chips on this same driver, they'll run at 23W apiece and be some 64% efficient!


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## Kevin the Great (Mar 15, 2016)

bubbler said:


> Nice setup. One thing to consider with going with a flip box on LEDs is that they run on much lower voltage than HIDs.
> 
> For the flip... Why not connect all the negative terminals and just switch the positive sides?


Exactly what I was thinking. It's not like a light switch cuts both the neutral and the hot.


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## pinner420 (Mar 16, 2016)

So after the beta is built are you gonna start selling a signature line of Legally Flying Vertical COB EXTREME?


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## legallyflying (Mar 16, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> So after the beta is built are you gonna start selling a signature line of Legally Flying Vertical COB EXTREME?


Why yes, seeing as I have sooo much free time on my hands. 

So far the leds seem to be holding there own against the HID lights. The buds seem to be about the same size. The colot looks better...but that is likely because they are under white, not yellow light.


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## OGEvilgenius (Mar 16, 2016)

I'd be pretty surprised if you didn't get your 2lbs. The buds that go under my COBs in my flower room do just as well as those that go under my Gavitas - mind you there is a bit of overlap. But still, I'm impressed. Veg growth is outstanding as well. 

Great experiment. I'll be watching.


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## getsoutalive (Mar 16, 2016)

Vert is one area that I think the COBs make less sense. Interested to see what happens here, but one of the major advantages of the COBs in a horizontal grow is all light is directed down, not 360 degrees around a bulb. This is anything but an advantage in a vert setup.

Of course it will work and work well. Just not sure it has the same bang for the buck vertically.


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2016)

getsoutalive said:


> Vert is one area that I think the COBs make less sense. Interested to see what happens here, but one of the major advantages of the COBs in a horizontal grow is all light is directed down, not 360 degrees around a bulb. This is anything but an advantage in a vert setup.
> 
> Of course it will work and work well. Just not sure it has the same bang for the buck vertically.


LOL


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## legallyflying (Mar 16, 2016)

getsoutalive said:


> Vert is one area that I think the COBs make less sense. Interested to see what happens here, but one of the major advantages of the COBs in a horizontal grow is all light is directed down, not 360 degrees around a bulb. This is anything but an advantage in a vert setup.
> 
> Of course it will work and work well. Just not sure it has the same bang for the buck vertically.


I see the point your getting at but you forget that we are casting light on a flat surface, not a round one. One thing that is for sure is that there are many many growers that have a hard time thinking outside the box. 

Don't get stuck on the labels my friend. Maybe we are not doing vert, maybe we are doing sideways horizontal? Because that is really what we have going on, four flat 3' x 4' scrogs per plant. 

It's not about sq. footage, it's about cubic footage!! And if LED lack penetration, what better way to use them than vertically as our canopy is 1' thick at best. 

Soooo, let's do the math, because I have. 

Traditional horz. 4x4 per 1k light. Your quality canopy is 1.5.. maybe 2' deep... although 2 feet is a stretch for dense bud so lwts say 1.75. So one bulb horizontal yields 16 x 1.75 = 28 cubic feet of bud. 
NOW DIVIDE THAT BY SQUARE FOOTAGE OF FLOOR SPACE to get an index to grow room utilization. 28/16 = *1.75.* Not sure what the units would be.. lets say "unit per sq.ft. floor space". Unless your truly dense you follow me. 

Vertical we have.. 12 sq ft per side, let's say 1 foot thick. That is 48 cubic feet of bud. Divided by floor space.. 9 sq. Ft. Which yields 48/9= *5.33*. Hell, let's say the vert canopy is only .75 thick.. that is still 48x.75/9 = *4. 

So now you know why vertical makes sense; cob, hps, pretty much anything except gavita.. which are retarded in my opinion. Ok, not retarded, they do work just waaaay to hot. 
Word on the street in oregon, they are going to regulate hid bulbs in 2017 which is why we are doing these field tests. 

*


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## pinner420 (Mar 16, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> I see the point your getting at but you forget that we are casting light on a flat surface, not a round one. One thing that is for sure is that there are many many growers that have a hard time thinking outside the box.
> 
> Don't get stuck on the labels my friend. Maybe we are not doing vert, maybe we are doing sideways horizontal? Because that is really what we have going on, four flat 3' x 4' scrogs per plant.
> 
> ...


Its funny that this info is out there in 50 flavors but folks are still lined up to buy hoods and extra fans. I haven't read all of your work but was wondering what your go to for chillers is?


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## getsoutalive (Mar 16, 2016)

*So now you know why vertical makes sense; cob, hps, *


Never questioned "why vertical makes sense", I can do the basic math.

My point was simply that one of the major advantages for horizontal users of LEDs is the 110 degree output plane.

Your design, while perfectly valid and serviceable will show a far lower relative efficiency advantage over a similar side by side that is grown horizontally. 

Reflector losses account for a good portion of what makes LEDs the better choice. Bare bulb vert does not have reflector losses and so is more efficient beyond just more effective use of space.


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2016)

getsoutalive said:


> *So now you know why vertical makes sense; cob, hps, *
> 
> 
> Never questioned "why vertical makes sense", I can do the basic math.
> ...


Nope. I've done the work and you haven't. It doesn't work like this.


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## getsoutalive (Mar 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Nope. I've done the work and you haven't. It doesn't work like this.


What doesn't work like this? 

So far you have laughed at me and offered nothing to refute my contention that a vertical bare hps bulb is more efficient than a horizontal hooded one?


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## ttystikk (Mar 16, 2016)

getsoutalive said:


> What doesn't work like this?
> 
> So far you have laughed at me and offered nothing to refute my contention that a vertical bare hps bulb is more efficient than a horizontal hooded one?


No, I've been laughing at your assertions that somehow vertical growing isn't as worthy as flatlander styles. Meanwhile, noticing that indeed you've put up no evidence. 

Then you said that COB LED isn't amenable to vertical growing, again with no supporting evidence whatsoever. 

Since I've actually done all the above, I'm laughing at your presumptuousness.

Does that help?


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## getsoutalive (Mar 16, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> No, I've been laughing at your assertions that somehow vertical growing isn't as worthy as flatlander styles. Meanwhile, noticing that indeed you've put up no evidence.
> 
> Then you said that COB LED isn't amenable to vertical growing, again with no supporting evidence whatsoever.
> 
> ...


I NEVER said that vert isnt as worthy.
I NEVER said that COBs are not amenable to vert.
Show me where I said either of those things.

Let me try again for you real slow ok?

The title of this thread is "*High power COB -vs- hps vertical shoot out*"

All I have said today is a vert hung HPS bulb is more efficient than an HPS bulb hung horizontally in a hood.

Clear enough?


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## legallyflying (Mar 16, 2016)

Mt point was that since we are shining a light on a perfectly flat plane, there is absolutely no differnece between our grow and a horizontal grow. 

Perhaps you can point out how our setup is using the COBs differently than a horizontal set up....


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## getsoutalive (Mar 16, 2016)

Your setup is not. You are correct.

Look, can we agree that bare bulb vert is more efficient than horizontal inside a hood for HPS? If we cannot agree on this then this will be my last post here.

Now, most people are not doing vert, for good reasons or bad, not the point.

Therefore most people who do similar "shootouts" or comparisons are working horizontally. That means that their comparisons are starting out with HPS in a less than optimal condition. This has the effect of making the comparison easier for the COB.

Your setup is competing against the more efficient use case for HPS and therefore will have a harder time measuring up.

I have said NOTHING about the growing style itself, simply that your shootout is a much tougher challenge for COB chips than most.

I have not used HIDs in a long time, I understand the advantages of LEDs, and vert. I am very interested to see how you do.


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## nevergoodenuf (Mar 16, 2016)

The HPS is still a single point source. By spreading the COBs out you can affectively run closer and less wattage per vertical foot. Even more so on a vertical screen.


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## getsoutalive (Mar 16, 2016)

nevergoodenuf said:


> The HPS is still a single point source. By spreading the COBs out you can affectively run closer and less wattage per vertical foot. Even more so on a vertical screen.


Good point. 

If you could bring in the diameter of each ring, you may be able to get additional towers into the same space at similar power levels.

Personally, I really like idea of custom placement of each chip. For a vert installation the pin fin design modular heat sinks will work at up to 50W passively, allowing you to adjust the placement of each chip individually where it will do the most good


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## nevergoodenuf (Mar 16, 2016)

You could also fit 3 panels in your 5'x5' area.


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## pinner420 (Mar 16, 2016)

Time for a money shot!


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## legallyflying (Mar 17, 2016)

I can take a picture today, although I wouldn't call it a money shot... more like a loose change shot. 

Yes, we absolutely coup slam a bunch more LED in there but the point was to SAVE some electricity... 

And to the dude debating about led vert l... I see your point, but that isn't what you said initially


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## getsoutalive (Mar 18, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> And to the dude debating about led vert l... I see your point, but that isn't what you said initially


It may not be what you read, but that is what I said.

Anyway, I have been giving this some more thought, particularly the reduced distance from the light source part.

Sure, you can reduce the radius of your ring and perhaps add more towers in the same room. But what if you took that to the extreme?

There are many cob chips in the CXB line and they are all very efficient even to low single digit wattages. So why not grow a jungle with micro cobs everywhere?

You would only need as much room as it takes to work and the rest could be greens. Can't think of a more effective way to maximize a room.


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## nevergoodenuf (Mar 18, 2016)

There has been a lot of great t5 and t8 led replacement bulbs available lately. Look for at least 130 lumen per watt or better, that is around 40% efficient. The would be a great choice, since the plants could grow right into them (maybe).http://www.ledsmagazine.com/ugc/iif/2016/03/18/green-creative-releases-dlc-qualified-plug-and-play-t5-ho-dir-led-tube.html
If you still want to play with rings, these would work, but I don't think it is as flat panels.http://www.ledsmagazine.com/ugc/iif/2016/03/18/saving-the-environment-one-communitybulb-at-a-time-megaglowledcom.html


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## getsoutalive (Mar 18, 2016)

The CXB1512 is pushing 200 lm/w at 5w each. The CXB1304 is around 180 lm/w at 3w


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## nevergoodenuf (Mar 18, 2016)

But remember, you are already at a dollar per watts for the COBs only. With a bunch of 4 foot t8, your cost could be much lower. At $2 per watt, you could try something like these. http://www.redbirdled.com/resources/RedBird LED Stripit Kit specification_sheet 062015.pdf
I have tested these with a PAR meter against a HO-T5. The T5 was only around 800 on the par meter, while these leds maxed out the meter a 1", and they are dimmable.


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## legallyflying (Mar 18, 2016)

Ummmm. What? ... spread 1,000s...yes 1,0000 of leds everywhere? Yeah, that sounds AWESOME!!!! 

I don't have a huger bone over LED. If I had to guess, right now the HPS is fucking thumping them.


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## getsoutalive (Mar 18, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> Ummmm. What? ... spread 1,000s...yes 1,0000 of leds everywhere? Yeah, that sounds AWESOME!!!!
> 
> I don't have a huger bone over LED. If I had to guess, right now the HPS is fucking thumping them.


Yea, was just thinking out loud about how to maximize a given volume.

So the LEDs are having a hard time keeping up, huh? Gee who could have foreseen that.....

"*Vert is one area that I think the COBs make less sense.*"

That is the first sentence of my first post in this thread. You know, the one you didn't really read and responded all butthurt with a math lesson that addressed nothing of what I said.


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## a mongo frog (Mar 18, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> If I had to guess, right now the HPS is fucking thumping them.


Is that what your are seeing so far?


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## legallyflying (Mar 20, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Is that what your are seeing so far?


Time will tell, but it certainly seems like the hps buds are larger and somehow slightly more developed. 

I think I do need to pick another HPS reference plant however. The one we picked has 3 bare bulbs and one bulb with a reflector (because it is the bulb on the edge of the system). Meaning, that plant is getting a little more than 1k worth of light.


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## legallyflying (Mar 29, 2016)

I 1 I'll try and upload pictures today. But for a concise summary of the competition:

For sale: 12 cree COB chips, ballasts and heat sinks. 

I really wanted it to work, so did my partner, but using almost the same wattage the LED are getting trounced.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 29, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> For sale: 12 cree COB chips, ballasts and heat sinks.


sounds like it would make a badass lightbar for a 4x4 or atv/utv. 

just like the old coyote/roadrunner cartoons: back to the drawing board!


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## DCobeen (Mar 29, 2016)

your design is why it failed. you need a flat screen vert grow to take advantage of the cob's. putting them on each corner of a round plant was asking to fail from the start. ask @ttystikk how he is doing his which is the correct way.


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## ttystikk (Mar 29, 2016)

DCobeen said:


> your design is why it failed. you need a flat screen vert grow to take advantage of the cob's. putting them on each corner of a round plant was asking to fail from the start. ask @ttystikk how he is doing his which is the correct way.


You can ask me all you want, but I won't have any answers for at least another month. Not every solution works in every situation, every time. Sometimes- shit, most of the time- you learn more from things NOT working as expected!


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## a mongo frog (Mar 29, 2016)

DCobeen said:


> your design is why it failed. you need a flat screen vert grow to take advantage of the cob's. putting them on each corner of a round plant was asking to fail from the start. ask @ttystikk how he is doing his which is the correct way.


Is it because these cob lamps won't penetrate a mega plant? So people have to change the way they've been gardening for years for these cobs to not get slaughtered? This is bad news on the commercial front.


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## reza92 (Mar 29, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You can ask me all you want, but I won't have any answers for at least another month. Not every solution works in every situation, every time. Sometimes- shit, most of the time- you learn more from things NOT working as expected!


Agreed you learn more from failure because you don't want that shit happening again.


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## legallyflying (Mar 29, 2016)

You guys that are saying that A. I have a round plant and B. It is a dense canopy are completely and utterly fucking retarded. 

Look at the pictures asshat. The plant is trained to a FLAT WIRE FENCE. FLAT. IT'S A FUCKING FLATLAND grow... on its side. Are the lights on the corners? NO. I'm all about constructive criticism, but criticism from shit stains that don't even understand the set up? 
The cobs are going to go into a pre veg light system. At least now we know, we bought the best chips and ballasts that they make, and they just didn't deliver.


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## ttystikk (Mar 29, 2016)

reza92 said:


> Agreed you learn more from failure because you don't want that shit happening again.


It's entirely likely that any number of things individually or together could have colored his results. That doesn't mean that A. COB LED has no future or B. that @legallyflying did anything 'wrong', it means that it wasn't a good match for his growing style. That's important, because our growing styles are very much tuned to the equipment we use to do it with.


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## legallyflying (Mar 29, 2016)

It means, that LED lick balls is what it means. 

My growing style is to hang the lights in front of the plants... I am not certain what else you can do. Maybe I need CFL in the canopy brah..

Lolololololo


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## ttystikk (Mar 29, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> It means, that LED lick balls is what it means.
> 
> My growing style is to hang the lights in front of the plants... I am not certain what else you can do. Maybe I need CFL in the canopy brah..
> 
> Lolololololo


There's this new system that will light your farts on fire, but at 90% efficiency...


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## WWShadow (Mar 29, 2016)

When you hang a bare 1k bulb vertical, it puts out the same amount of light all the way around the bulb. For the cobs to work in the exact same manner, You would need all of the cobs facing the same way.
I may not have stated that quite right but if you re-examine what you have going you may find a better way to utilize your COBs.
You have a pretty nice set up though, too bad that design didn't work as hoped.

Also like ttystikk said, other factors may have played a part also. You could spend a lot of time and money looking for a workable solution.

Best of luck to you man!


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## getsoutalive (Mar 30, 2016)

WWS, you are correct. COBs just can't compete vertically. Said this two weeks ago up thread and got yelled at for all kinds of crap that I never said. COBs are just now passing HPS in a horizontal hood setup. The bare vertically hung HPS is far more efficient than horizontal mounting in a hood. COBs with 110 degree light output are not well suited to a design that requires light in a 360 pattern..


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## chuck estevez (Mar 30, 2016)

Man, I am on double retarded restriction right now, but I took the hour to get in here so i could post this one thing.
@ttystick, I said it before, you are so heavily invested in these lights, you can't see the forest thru the trees. the last thread they locked me out of, there was a dude who showed his johnson grown buds and I told him they looked like shit. He said he was going to post a pic after it dried, notice that NEVER happened. LEDs suck bro, bottom line.


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## PSUAGRO. (Mar 30, 2016)

getsoutalive said:


> WWS, you are correct. COBs just can't compete vertically. Said this two weeks ago up thread and got yelled at for all kinds of crap that I never said. COBs are just now passing HPS in a horizontal hood setup. The bare vertically hung HPS is far more efficient than horizontal mounting in a hood. COBs with 110 degree light output are not well suited to a design that requires light in a 360 pattern..


I don't know why they gave you so much shit, you where right........bare bulb hid is still really hard to beat in a vert set up

subbed to this thread and never got any updates until chucky troll posted it

still nice attempt by the op............any pics of the huge? difference in the final product/weight?????


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## sixstring2112 (Mar 30, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> Time will tell, but it certainly seems like the hps buds are larger and somehow slightly more developed.
> 
> I think I do need to pick another HPS reference plant however. The one we picked has 3 bare bulbs and one bulb with a reflector (because it is the bulb on the edge of the system). Meaning, that plant is getting a little more than 1k worth of light.


im confused on this post,you are using a plant with 4 hid around it to compare to 800watts of cob on another plant same size? is the cob plant in the center of the room getting cross lighting like the rest of the plants? man some updated pics would be nice,you got trolls spamming the liink to this journal in the led section like its the best comparision out there and i just dont see it with the limited pics.there is a small learning curve to feeding led plants,they dont like all the usual tactics that work on hid grown plants.ime the plants under led will take up alot more mag and even nitrogen needs to be higher in the first few weeks of 12/12. its a sweet looking cob tunnel you built,too bad its not up to snuff for ya.


----------



## tstick (Mar 30, 2016)

It might be cool to try mono arrays equipped with some tight-angle lenses, (as opposed to COB), for side lighting -something like some Apache tech panels hung on-end, for example. That way, you could get a lot more close-distribution of light to the sides. With most COBs, you have to have them at specific distances to get the light to spread out enough to get the coverage -otherwise, they distribute light more like a flashlight does.

To me, the best application for soft-driven, multiple-emitter COB fixtures, is in a _scrog. _And if you're going with a vertical style grow, then you can take the best advantage of the way a bare bulb distributes photons to get the most efficiency from it.

I wonder what the outcome would be in a "growing contest" between a bare-bulb-HID _vertical_ grow and a soft-driven, multiple COB _scrog _-??? In other words, pit the _best applications_ of each type of lighting approach against each other and see which produces the best end results...and not just in terms of yield, alone. Also test for potency and terpene levels, too.

Personally, after some limited experimentation with COBs, I'm now considering a LEC system and also looking at going back and getting another mono-array type of fixture, too...hopefully when (and if) Apache Tech ever lowers their prices! 

I don't care about efficiency/charts/numbers at all. My grows are too small for that to ever be a real factor...just sayin'


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## Rrog (Mar 30, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> LEDs suck bro, bottom line.


This is so terribly wrong that I wonder what your agenda is. 5 years ago this was true, but shit Rip Van Winkle, wake the fuck up.


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## ttystikk (Mar 30, 2016)

WWShadow said:


> When you hang a bare 1k bulb vertical, it puts out the same amount of light all the way around the bulb. For the cobs to work in the exact same manner, You would need all of the cobs facing the same way.
> I may not have stated that quite right but if you re-examine what you have going you may find a better way to utilize your COBs.
> You have a pretty nice set up though, too bad that design didn't work as hoped.
> 
> ...


THIS.


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## ttystikk (Mar 30, 2016)

tstick said:


> It might be cool to try mono arrays equipped with some tight-angle lenses, (as opposed to COB), for side lighting -something like some Apache tech panels hung on-end, for example. That way, you could get a lot more close-distribution of light to the sides. With most COBs, you have to have them at specific distances to get the light to spread out enough to get the coverage -otherwise, they distribute light more like a flashlight does.
> 
> To me, the best application for soft-driven, multiple-emitter COB fixtures, is in a _scrog. _And if you're going with a vertical style grow, then you can take the best advantage of the way a bare bulb distributes photons to get the most efficiency from it.
> 
> ...


I'm doing exactly this.


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## Sativied (Mar 30, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> Man, I am on double retarded restriction right now, but I took the hour to get in here so i could post this one thing.
> @ttystick, I said it before, you are so heavily invested in these lights, you can't see the forest thru the trees. the last thread they locked me out of, there was a dude who showed his johnson grown buds and I told him they looked like shit. He said he was going to post a pic after it dried, notice that NEVER happened. LEDs suck bro, bottom line.


Figured they fucked with your account. Absurd considering the douchebag trolls in the LED forum. As for Johnson lighting: "We are beyond valid arguments" 

@ttystick: now you can see what your mindless parroting of led propaganda causes... good people wasting time and money. The outcome of this thread was obvious to me after reading the fourth word in this thread.


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## OLD MOTHER SATIVA (Mar 30, 2016)

they are comparing 4000 watts to 800 cob?

thats 20% led wattage..its seemed not like the fair way to go for real test

..nice photos

i got my first HID in 1979..i still use em..i like cobs too....


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## REALSTYLES (Mar 30, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> Man, I am on double retarded restriction right now, but I took the hour to get in here so i could post this one thing.
> @ttystick, I said it before, you are so heavily invested in these lights, you can't see the forest thru the trees. the last thread they locked me out of, there was a dude who showed his johnson grown buds and I told him they looked like shit. He said he was going to post a pic after it dried, notice that NEVER happened. LEDs suck bro, bottom line.


Your just mad you can't grow with them. I get a lb from 400watt panel here's a pic from my last harvest 

This is one plant 8oz when it dried







Grown under 750watts 4 plants in a 4x4 tent and lets see your pics


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## getsoutalive (Mar 30, 2016)

COBs obviously kick ass. 

However, the right tool for the right job, *always*. 

For vert, COB is the wrong tool. The radiation pattern alone should make that obvious.

For those that grow horizontal and have heat problems with HID, COBs are a no brainer, just as bare bulb HID is for vert.

I prefer COBs myself. Passive cooled individual pendants on rails and pulleys that can be easily moved exactly where they are most needed across the canopy. No optics necessary. 110 degrees offers excellent cross lighting between COBs. Want to talk about uniform lighting edge to edge? I believe that you can replace lb for lb, HID with COBs at 60-70% of previous watts depending on efficiency levels chosen for the chips.

No single point source 3 feet off center of the canopy that requires massive airflow and may not even be useable in the hotter months, sends 50% of its output in the wrong direction and has horrible spectrum.


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## Alienwidow (Mar 30, 2016)

Sorry to see your latest adventure didnt work out @legallyflying 
I figured it wouldnt but damn that would have been nice to save that extra money. To everyone else reading this thread, ive seen his bud first hand and its huge and gorgeous. That setup utilizes almost every bud on the plant turning them all into trophy buds. I still would like to drink a couple beers with ya andgo through some of the specifics of the system...after im done trimming


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## sixstring2112 (Mar 30, 2016)

OLD MOTHER SATIVA said:


> they are comparing 4000 watts to 800 cob?
> 
> thats 20% led wattage..its seemed not like the fair way to go for real test
> 
> ...


i dont even think its 800w based on the pics and first post.3 cobs per side x 4 sides is 12 x 50w (if thats what they are driven @) is only 600w cob.this is why im totally confused on this whole comparision topic. pic of the driver is 700ma so some things are not adding up,but the room itself looks nice.


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## chuck estevez (Mar 30, 2016)

and you prove my point,led grown buds look like shit, sorry it is the truth.


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## Stephenj37826 (Mar 30, 2016)

Sativied said:


> Figured they fucked with your account. Absurd considering the douchebag trolls in the LED forum. As for Johnson lighting: "We are beyond valid arguments"
> 
> @ttystick: now you can see what your mindless parroting of led propaganda causes... good people wasting time and money. The outcome of this thread was obvious to me after reading the fourth word in this thread.



Still your argument was against horizontal lighting which is at a 20+% disadvantage. Also you can't expect one 400 watt vert fixture against a 1000 watt vert bulb ? Seriously? I never advocated that cobs where even remotely great for vert trees. If they where scrogged and flat plane sure. Vertical trees of course needs an omnidirectional light source. Good luck to you guys. I'm not here to argue conjecture. Believe what you will. I say stick with hid till you die. Don't you dare use any form of LED as you say it's a done tech. In the meantime sorry you tried to stretch ~1000 ppf of cree cobs into a 1750 ppf of hps lighting.


Also upon further review it's 3 cobs per side with no optics? Good God 50% of the light isn't even hitting the plant.


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## Stephenj37826 (Mar 30, 2016)

Also 12 chips 800 watts on hlg185????? Something is terribly wrong with this build.


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## Stephenj37826 (Mar 30, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> I 1 I'll try and upload pictures today. But for a concise summary of the competition:
> 
> For sale: 12 cree COB chips, ballasts and heat sinks.
> 
> I really wanted it to work, so did my partner, but using almost the same wattage the LED are getting trounced.


Please give details of the cobs and drivers.


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## jafro daweedhound (Mar 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You can ask me all you want, but I won't have any answers for at least another month. Not every solution works in every situation, every time. Sometimes- shit, most of the time- you learn more from things NOT working as expected!


Being brave enough to try new things is what sets some apart from the crowd. Trying new things will bring about innovation and take the industry to new heights.


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## ttystikk (Mar 30, 2016)

jafro daweedhound said:


> Being brave enough to try new things is what sets some apart from the crowd. Trying new things will bring about innovation and take the industry to new heights.


Someone mentioned a good point about the OP's COB setup; they seemed pretty far from the canopy for not having any lenses.

It just takes one detail like this one to skew the results, so careful attention to detail is essential.


----------



## jafro daweedhound (Mar 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> There's this new system that will light your farts on fire, but at 90% efficiency...


One guy got 100% efficiency doing that..... but suddenly he felt something hairy was in the back of his throat. Luckily he swallowed hard and his assholes is back where it should be again.....
Just goes to show not everyone can implement efficiencies productively ...


----------



## REALSTYLES (Mar 30, 2016)

I would add some horizontal panels over the canopy just 100watts or so more maybe 150 the most


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## jafro daweedhound (Mar 30, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> You guys that are saying that A. I have a round plant and B. It is a dense canopy are completely and utterly fucking retarded.


I think your idea is good for a couple of reasons. First off you are thinking outside the box and inside as well literally - what if you were able to focus the COBs direction downwards slightly instead of a vertical projectorry Perhaps 25 - 30 degrees downward. Lifting the entire unit higher as well.
Just thinking out load...


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## TastyNugs (Mar 30, 2016)

I may have missed something, but the driver on page 2 is .7A. 12 cobs and 4 drivers, that's only 150w each, 600w total? 

108k lumens with the cobs, 145k with the vert hps?


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## legallyflying (Mar 31, 2016)

TastyNugs said:


> I may have missed something, but the driver on page 2 is .7A. 12 cobs and 4 drivers, that's only 150w each, 600w total?
> 
> 108k lumens with the cobs, 145k with the vert hps?


My understanding that the drivers were pushing 200 watts each.. so a total of 800.

As I stated before, I know next to nothing about led and reached out to tyystcik for recommendations. 

One thing I did see is that there is considerably less stacking with the led. I understand this is due to the individual plants themselves and veg conditions but if I'm only pushing 600 watts.. that is kind of fucked!!!


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## legallyflying (Mar 31, 2016)

One more thing about bare bulb vert
.yes.. 360 light output. BUT each plant...one per side of the HPS is only getting 25% of the light. 

So my conventional thought was throw about 200 or so watts of LED per side of the plant. 

The led chips output at 120 degrees so I placed them 12" from the plant. 12" at 90 degree would be 24" lighting swath. So I figured 120 would illuminate the 34" wide screens. 

I would like to know how much wattage I'm pushing. We are still 3 weeks out, I'll post pics later.


----------



## legallyflying (Mar 31, 2016)

I love how getsoutalive can't understand that vert or horizontal makes no difference. 

So I trolled his profile.. and he is boasting about bottom feeding in coco with wicks as winning.

Lolololol. Yeah brah, you are absolutely killing it

Pick up a physics book, you just may learn something.


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## churchhaze (Mar 31, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> Yo bitches,
> So ttystickk finally convinced me to give the new cree COB a try. Since we grow vert to maximize sq ft. In our warehouse I built a fixture designed to be used in a vertical setting... ergo omni directional light.
> 
> Using cxb 3590 3500 80? CRI chips and 200 watt meanwell drivers. 12 chips total, 18" long and 4.5" wide heatsinks.
> ...


Those drivers will put out 700mA and will vary voltage output between Vmin and Vmax to regulate the current at 700mA.

Each cob drops about 70V at 700mA, so ~49W (P=IV). There are 3 cobs per string, so each string dissipates ~147W. There are 4 strings, so you're only dissipating about *588W, not 800W*..

You can not simply add up the rated wattages of the drivers to find out how much power is dissipated. That only tells you the maximum power rating of the drivers, not how much power they're using. Go measure the voltage across the 3 cobs using a multimeter and multiply it by the supply current if you want proof, or plug the drivers in a kill-a-watt meter.


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## TastyNugs (Mar 31, 2016)

Yeah I think that's 600w total, which would explain the poor performance. 4 more cobs at 50w each puts it to 144k lumens, that'd be a pretty even comparison with a 145k 1000w bulb. Grab a kill a watt meter and check what they're pulling at the wall.


For distance from canopy, Cree cobs are 115°, Pythagorean theorem puts 50% light output at 19" from the center of the cob if 12" high. 

Personally I've gone from an overhead 600w hps to a 340w PLC, and lux readings are a bit higher with the led fixture, but I also had a cheap eBay hps reflectors, no telling how much light I lost to that thing. I would think if it were 144k lumens of cob it'd be a bit better than 145k lumens of hps.


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## getsoutalive (Mar 31, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> I love how getsoutalive can't understand that vert or horizontal makes no difference.
> 
> So I trolled his profile.. and he is boasting about bottom feeding in coco with wicks as winning.
> 
> ...


Just so we are straight.
You start a thread called "High power cob vs hps vertical shootout."

I try to explain that the output pattern of each leads to a very difficult comparison for the cobs and they won't be able to compete.

You go off on a rant giving me a math lesson about how you are maximizing your volume. Great, but nothing to do with your lighting choices.

Your partner who designed this mess, just laughed and told me I don't know what I am talking about, cause obviously he nailed this.

_*Turns out I was exactly correct. This design sucks for apparently more than just placement reasons as you don't even know how many watts you are running.
*_
Then, you go through my profile and find a post in a thread asking about passive hydro and wicking to troll me further.

Just wow.


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## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> One more thing about bare bulb vert
> .yes.. 360 light output. BUT each plant...one per side of the HPS is only getting 25% of the light.
> 
> So my conventional thought was throw about 200 or so watts of LED per side of the plant.
> ...


We'll help you get this thing figured out, that's a promise!


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## REALSTYLES (Mar 31, 2016)

@ttystikk all he has to do is buy 4 more cobs and figure out how to incorporate them to his setup which he will need more heat sinks and I'd suggest putting over the top so the plant gets almost 360 of light.


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## legallyflying (Mar 31, 2016)

getsoutalive said:


> Just so we are straight.
> You start a thread called "High power cob vs hps vertical shootout."
> 
> I try to explain that the output pattern of each leads to a very difficult comparison for the cobs and they won't be able to compete.
> ...


Oooohhhh K. You are the man!! 

You see, one of us can just thrown a 8-900 dollars at something just for shit and giggles and one of us is bottom feeding coco pots. Your absolutely wrong about vertical LED and it's absolutely comical that you don't get it. 

You go keyboard hero. Let's see some pictures from someone that has their shit so Oooohhhh dialed.


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## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> Oooohhhh K. You are the man!!
> 
> You see, one of us can just thrown a 8-900 dollars at something just for shit and giggles and one of us is bottom feeding coco pots. Your absolutely wrong about vertical LED and it's absolutely comical that you don't get it.
> 
> You go keyboard hero. Let's see some pictures from someone that has their shit so Oooohhhh dialed.


Haters gonna hate, mostly because they're so terrified of failure themselves they can't stand the thought of anyone trying something new. 

He's the kind of troll the ignore button was invented for, he's been on my ignore list forever for exactly the same shit. So HE isn't learning anything, but I believe we can learn from initial missteps and make your COB LED project the success it can and deserves to be. 

Take @REALSTYLES advice about rewiring the rig for a few extra COBs and that's good for a third more light right off the bat. 

Since you're running flat trellis panels, I'm not sure lenses or reflectors will make much difference, so long as the light leaving the COB will hit canopy over at least a120 degree spread. 

I still think you need to make the box, and call it; 

*Nomad*, a sentient robot probe in the Star Trek episode "The Changeling" (1967)
Lol


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## legallyflying (Mar 31, 2016)

Stephenj37826 said:


> Also 12 chips 800 watts on hlg185????? Something is terribly wrong with this build.


What's wrong with this is that you jump into a thread, spew garbage from some other nonsense thread, and can't even bother to look at the very 1st post in this thread that shows exactly what is going on. 

You diss the build in one post and the very next post ask what the details of the build are
What's embarrassing is that you are an advertiser and this is how you roll???


ANYWAYS, I'm looking for suggestions from those in the know. Maybe lenses on the chips?


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## legallyflying (Mar 31, 2016)

Best thing boutique this thread so far... remembered the ignore button. Lol.

What's this shit about 50% of light wasted? My cobs are 12" from the plant. I measured, like 4 times, and put references lines on the hangers if they got bumped. Belive me, we are VERY detail oriented around here. Too much money on the line not to be. I just opened this month's power bill... $9,425.


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## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> Best thing boutique this thread so far... remembered the ignore button. Lol.
> 
> What's this shit about 50% of light wasted? My cobs are 12" from the plant. I measured, like 4 times, and put references lines on the hangers if they got bumped. Belive me, we are VERY detail oriented around here. Too much money on the line not to be. I just opened this month's power bill... $9,425.


Yeah, the ignore button rocks!

A common error is to hang lights with no lenses or reflectors too far from the canopy, so nothing personal, we're just doing our own due diligence, rooting out and eliminating the stuff we commonly see.

I made the design choice to include 80 degree lenses, as much for long term durability and resistance to being sprayed as for light distribution. Also because my lights are 24" from the canopy. 

That's a power bill, all right. Motherfuckers are no joke! So do you want a smaller bill or just more yield to show for it?


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## chuck estevez (Mar 31, 2016)

sixstring2112 said:


> your first post,"now cry away"
> you came in here lookin for a fight and *pointed us to one of the worst side by sides i ever seen.the dude has a plant in the corner with almost no side lighting and 600w of cobs poorly set up vs a bunch of plants with 4x 1000w hid hanging around them .LAME!!! *
> here ya go charlie same cut same veg times same chop day 72 days both plants.my cross so i know how to grow this one a lil
> de plant


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## REALSTYLES (Mar 31, 2016)

Let's go over to the thread you started because I'm not finished with you yet. @legallyflying I got you I won't muddy up your thread I'm here to help I actually love your idea just needs a little tweaking lol @chuck estevez you have dug a grave for yourself with me lol. Guys get ready for the circus because I'm gonna make him look like a clown when this is all over hahahaha


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## TheChemist77 (Mar 31, 2016)

just coming in to watch.. ive been interested in the led performance,,just not compitent to diy myself a unit and i grow sog so a regular 200-300 watt cob is all i need.. just hard to decide witch one to buy so im slowly gathering the cash..anyways very interested to see results here...good luck.. also the electrical savings alone are a huge pluss if yields are even close to one another...


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## sixstring2112 (Mar 31, 2016)

ok a few things here on cob power from my very limited experience.if your 3590 are 72v your getting 50 w per cob.but you didnt say what voltage these were or i missed it 2x i read the first post.if your using 36v cobs your only seeing 25.2 w per cob.so if you are running 36v then your total watts is closer to 302 for the 12 lights.that could be why you dont like the results.but even at 72v its not nearly enough light to compete with 1000w lamps imo.but its all in the details.you can thank trolling charlie for inviting the whole led section over for a looksee lol.i still dont see why he thinks he has a horse in this race though lol.another thing,that driver is capable of running 8 x 36 volt cobs 3590 or 4 of the 72v cxb 3590 either way would get you to 200w per driver if you just use the right amount of cobs.but i hope you dont give up so quickly and try to sort this out for at least one more plant.to be fair the next plant needs to be in with other plants so it recieves the same overlap lighting your other plants get.that or pull 2 plants to the side and light em up individually .look forward to your updated pics.peace


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## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> Let's go over to the thread you started because I'm not finished with you yet. @legallyflying I got you I won't muddy up your thread I'm here to help I actually love your idea just needs a little tweaking lol @chuck estevez you have dug a grave for yourself with me lol. Guys get ready for the circus because I'm gonna make him look like a clown when this is all over hahahaha


Chuckie already does look like a clown. Just don't get any of his face paint on you. 

I agree with you, I think @legallyflying is very close to a winning setup and a few tweaks will get him there. Link me in wherever you go to talk about this, so I can learn right along with y'all!


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## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

sixstring2112 said:


> ok a few things here on cob power from my very limited experience.if your 3590 are 72v your getting 50 w per cob.but you didnt say what voltage these were or i missed it 2x i read the first post.if your using 36v cobs your only seeing 25.2 w per cob.so if you are running 36v then your total watts is closer to 302 for the 12 lights.that could be why you dont like the results.but even at 72v its not nearly enough light to compete with 1000w lamps imo.but its all in the details.you can thank trolling charlie for inviting the whole led section over for a looksee lol.i still dont see why he thinks he has a horse in this race though lol.another thing,that driver is capable of running 8 x 36 volt cobs 3590 or 4 of the 72v cxb 3590 either way would get you to 200w per driver if you just use the right amount of cobs.but i hope you dont give up so quickly and try to sort this out for at least one more plant.to be fair the next plant needs to be in with other plants so it recieves the same overlap lighting your other plants get.that or pull 2 plants to the side and light em up individually .look forward to your updated pics.peace


I ended up with 4 x CXB3590 3500K 72V CD bin per Meanwell HLG-185-C700B. This gives me 54W per COB at 56% efficiency, due to the B model externally dimmed driver running 8% over its rated current when the dimming leads are capped. This is good for 824PPfD over 6 sq ft, so I made my modules long and skinny to deliver even lighting to a 2'x3' area. Four of these modules nicely covers one of my 4' wide by 6' tall trellis panels. 

This isn't to brag at all; I really only know of this and a very few other combos, I'm sharing in order to let everyone know what I'm running so they can compare their results.


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## pinner420 (Mar 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I ended up with 4 x CXB3590 3500K 72V CD bin per Meanwell HLG-185-C700B. This gives me 54W per COB at 56% efficiency, due to the B model externally dimmed driver running 8% over its rated current when the dimming leads are capped. This is good for 824PPfD over 6 sq ft, so I made my modules long and skinny to deliver even lighting to a 2'x3' area. Four of these modules nicely covers one of my 4' wide by 6' tall trellis panels.
> 
> This isn't to brag at all; I really only know of this and a very few other combos, I'm sharing in order to let everyone know what I'm running so they can compare their results.


Seems legit I'm hearing reports here and there of 1.9 gpw horizontally.


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## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

pinner420 said:


> Seems legit I'm hearing reports here and there of 1.9 gpw horizontally.


Yeah, that's why I settled on this combo. This way I can be sure any shortcomings are due to my incompetence and not the light's fault!


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## Jp.the.pope (Mar 31, 2016)

Stephenj37826 said:


> Please give details of the cobs and drivers.


Sounds like he should be getting 25/26w per COB @ 700ma amiright? 12*25 --- 300w, 75w per side...

@legallyflying You might just need more light. Im finishing a few 5 COB 54" panels, running 185h - 1050ma. Should be pushing about 180w per panel instead of 75w.

That or switch to 72v COBs


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## chuck estevez (Mar 31, 2016)

typical ttystikk with the personal attack because you know i am right. another prediction, in 1 year, you wont be able to sell that monstrocity youre building to a 80s cover band for stage lighting.


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## Stephenj37826 (Mar 31, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> What's wrong with this is that you jump into a thread, spew garbage from some other nonsense thread, and can't even bother to look at the very 1st post in this thread that shows exactly what is going on.
> 
> You diss the build in one post and the very next post ask what the details of the build are
> What's embarrassing is that you are an advertiser and this is how you roll???
> ...



What I was referring to was the OP.... 12 cobs and 200 watt drivers I'm having a hard time figuring out 800 watts on 12 cobs honestly. 16 cobs maybe. I'm assuming you are running meanwell hlg 185h c"""""" so still can't figure how you got 800 watts on 12 cobs.

If you have the incorrect combination of drivers and cobs you'll definitely not get the results you are looking for. Have you actually plugged it into a kilowatt meter? Not bashing just seems you are quick to dismiss this tech when your design is not quite optimized. Sorry if I came off as being a dick.


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## Stephenj37826 (Mar 31, 2016)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Sounds like he should be getting 25/26w per COB @ 700ma amiright? 12*25 --- 300w, 75w per side...
> 
> @legallyflying You might just need more light. Im finishing a few 5 COB 54" panels, running 185h - 1050ma. Should be pushing about 180w per panel instead of 75w.
> 
> That or switch to 72v COBs




That's what I was thinking and of course he got lackluster results if this is the case.


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## Jp.the.pope (Mar 31, 2016)

Stephenj37826 said:


> That's what I was thinking and of course he got lackluster results if this is the case.


Or really awesome results if he was using half his expected wattage...


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## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Or really awesome results if he was using half his expected wattage...


I'd rather have the yield than the low power bill, speaking personally. This isn't a desirable result at all, even if the unit is operating at high efficiency. If the driver is underutilized then it might not even be all that efficient. That discussion is for those who know their power and parts better than me.


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## Stephenj37826 (Mar 31, 2016)

Jp.the.pope said:


> Or really awesome results if he was using half his expected wattage...



In the OP he was thinking 800 watts. If he is actually 36V cobs his best bet would be 3 hlg185h-c1400b.

Depending on the heatsink you could run 3 36V cobs per hlg 240h-c2100 for 75 watts per Cob basically.

Or 4 on hlg-240h-c1750 for 62 watts each. This combo would get him the closest to his 800 watt goal.


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## legallyflying (Mar 31, 2016)

I'll look into those parts next week, we JUST flipped flower room A. Right now I'm dealing with the uninsured and suspended license jackass that plowed into and totalled my Lexus that was parked on the street. 

I hear a crash, thinking someone is breaking into my motorcycle trailer I grab my handgun and walk outside in my underwear to find my car and his truck in a mingled steaming heap. Then, this guy starts walking away!!! I'm like hey!! Where are u going and he says, my friend is in the car I'm going to get help. Oh shit! I think and look inside the car... I don't see anyone. I look up and his is sprinting down the street. 
I fucking bolt after him screaming stop stop, ive got a fucking gun and he kind of freaks out, looks behind him and trips. Now I'm standing in the middle of a fairly busy street in my underwear with this guy at gunpoint screaming stay down, do not fucking move you are under arrest. 

The cops were surprisingly chill, even joking around and what not. After walking home and putting my gun away one cop says "oh hey, I didn't recognize you without your underwear". 

My gf... whose car was in front of mine and also damaged was on FIRE becauservice she just bought that mini Cooper last month. The guy is cuffed and bloody on the curb and she is yelling "your a piece of shit you fucking dumbass" etc,etc. And the cops says "mam, you can't berate the prisoner" and she says "yes I can he fucked up my car and then tried to flee" and he says.. "ok, I'll give you 30 more seconds and then you have to just go home" lmfao.


----------



## Alienwidow (Mar 31, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> I'll look into those parts next week, we JUST flipped flower room A. Right now I'm dealing with the uninsured and suspended license jackass that plowed into and totalled my Lexus that was parked on the street.
> 
> I hear a crash, thinking someone is breaking into my motorcycle trailer I grab my handgun and walk outside in my underwear to find my car and his truck in a mingled steaming heap. Then, this guy starts walking away!!! I'm like hey!! Where are u going and he says, my friend is in the car I'm going to get help. Oh shit! I think and look inside the car... I don't see anyone. I look up and his is sprinting down the street.
> I fucking bolt after him screaming stop stop, ive got a fucking gun and he kind of freaks out, looks behind him and trips. Now I'm standing in the middle of a fairly busy street in my underwear with this guy at gunpoint screaming stay down, do not fucking move you are under arrest.
> ...


Oh my fucking god i just laughed harder than i have all month! That's hilarious! Im sorry that happened to ya man, but that story is gold!


----------



## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> I'll look into those parts next week, we JUST flipped flower room A. Right now I'm dealing with the uninsured and suspended license jackass that plowed into and totalled my Lexus that was parked on the street.
> 
> I hear a crash, thinking someone is breaking into my motorcycle trailer I grab my handgun and walk outside in my underwear to find my car and his truck in a mingled steaming heap. Then, this guy starts walking away!!! I'm like hey!! Where are u going and he says, my friend is in the car I'm going to get help. Oh shit! I think and look inside the car... I don't see anyone. I look up and his is sprinting down the street.
> I fucking bolt after him screaming stop stop, ive got a fucking gun and he kind of freaks out, looks behind him and trips. Now I'm standing in the middle of a fairly busy street in my underwear with this guy at gunpoint screaming stay down, do not fucking move you are under arrest.
> ...


She should find out when the piece of shit is due in court, THEN berate him! Make that shit count; judge will hear what she says and fuckin bury his dumb ass in jail!


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## StashToker (Mar 31, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> I'll look into those parts next week, we JUST flipped flower room A. Right now I'm dealing with the uninsured and suspended license jackass that plowed into and totalled my Lexus that was parked on the street.
> 
> I hear a crash, thinking someone is breaking into my motorcycle trailer I grab my handgun and walk outside in my underwear to find my car and his truck in a mingled steaming heap. Then, this guy starts walking away!!! I'm like hey!! Where are u going and he says, my friend is in the car I'm going to get help. Oh shit! I think and look inside the car... I don't see anyone. I look up and his is sprinting down the street.
> I fucking bolt after him screaming stop stop, ive got a fucking gun and he kind of freaks out, looks behind him and trips. Now I'm standing in the middle of a fairly busy street in my underwear with this guy at gunpoint screaming stay down, do not fucking move you are under arrest.
> ...


WOW! I hope you have no problems with the insurance company. Glad no one was hurt though. Life is fuckin crazy.


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## legallyflying (Mar 31, 2016)

Well he had a felony suspended license...and was driving, which is a felony. And then felony hit and run, so yeah he is going to jail.

Absolutely fucking crazy though. I thoughy, ok, ill go in the back yard, see nothing and then go back to bed... 

Fucking loved that car though


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## Resinhound (Mar 31, 2016)

Just stopping in to see how this turns out.


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## ttystikk (Mar 31, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> Well he had a felony suspended license...and was driving, which is a felony. And then felony hit and run, so yeah he is going to jail.
> 
> Absolutely fucking crazy though. I thoughy, ok, ill go in the back yard, see nothing and then go back to bed...
> 
> Fucking loved that car though


Nuts, and totally random.


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## WWShadow (Apr 1, 2016)

getsoutalive said:


> WWS, you are correct. COBs just can't compete vertically. Said this two weeks ago up thread and got yelled at for all kinds of crap that I never said. COBs are just now passing HPS in a horizontal hood setup. The bare vertically hung HPS is far more efficient than horizontal mounting in a hood. COBs with 110 degree light output are not well suited to a design that requires light in a 360 pattern..


I'm not saying COB LEDs can't compete. I fully think that they can more than compete, once arranged to maximize coverage for the style of grow that is being done. Like I said, I may not have explained it properly in my previous post.
I think that that not only can LEDs compete but that done properly they can exceed HPS in flowering.

@ttystikk is one of those that is proving it can be done. So your statement isn't exactly true. Light is light whether horizontal or vertical. It's all in how you use it.


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## ttystikk (Apr 1, 2016)

WWShadow said:


> I'm not saying COB LEDs can't compete. I fully think that they can more than compete, once arranged to maximize coverage for the style of grow that is being done. Like I said, I may not have explained it properly in my previous post.
> I think that that not only can LEDs compete but that done properly they can exceed HPS in flowering.
> 
> @ttystikk is one of those that is proving it can be done. So your statement isn't exactly true. Light is light whether horizontal or vertical. It's all in how you use it.


Couldn't say it better, myself.


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## getsoutalive (Apr 1, 2016)

WWShadow said:


> I'm not saying COB LEDs can't compete. I fully think that they can more than compete, once arranged to maximize coverage for the style of grow that is being done. Like I said, I may not have explained it properly in my previous post.
> I think that that not only can LEDs compete but that done properly they can exceed HPS in flowering.
> 
> @ttystikk is one of those that is proving it can be done. So your statement isn't exactly true. Light is light whether horizontal or vertical. It's all in how you use it.



Fine, can't compete may be overstating it. But, as I said upthread, I believe that in a horizontal growing style, a properly designed COB system can replace HID at 65-75% of watts input.

I doubt you will be able to replace the performance of the HID with less than 90% of the power input and likely, you would need more watts or ultra efficiency and many more chips at far higher startup costs in a vertical system.


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## Budley Doright (Apr 2, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> and you prove my point,led grown buds look like shit, sorry it is the truth.


I don't know Chuck, they look ok to me. Perhaps you could put up a comparible sized bud of yours and point out the differences. I'm just not getting the shit thing.


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## Sativied (Apr 3, 2016)

getsoutalive said:


> COBs with 110 degree light output are not well suited to a design that requires light in a 360 pattern..


And that is were the main error in your imaginary design lies, the 360 you assume is not required at all. Vertical bare bulb equates to a 360 degree light pattern. There's no reason vertical cob grows should too. People don't choose 360 when running vertical, it's a default result with bare hps. There's no valid or logical reason to apply that 360 (which by itself says nothing about vertical vs horizontal obviously) to COBs. In fact, it's dumb. Considering we tend to work in square/rectangle space, using a circle within a square is not an optimal use of space. You can use four walls in the cube surrounding the circle instead. The bare bulb vertical setup is to use the bulb and space more efficiently. Once you no longer use that bulb trying to apply that misuse of hps to led is just futile and silly.

This whole thread reads like slapstick... Both the attempt to reinvent the wheel (instead of going for top lighting in combination with inter lighting as widely applied by pros), and the desperate arguments from the led fanboys that it's not a fair comparison. The fact led is so directional and you have multiple light sources is an advantage for a vertical setup where it essentially becomes side lighting, which in case of cannabis should obviously not be the main light source. Besides that there is no valid reason to do only side lighting once you take the bulb out of the setup... 

=================== access path
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ cobs side
***************************** cobs top lighting above plants
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv cobs side
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ cobs side
***************************** cobs top lighting above plants
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv cobs side
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ cobs side
***************************** cobs top lighting above plants
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv cobs side
=================== access path

That's the way to go.

Shows again how blinded folks are by the attempt to "beat hps" and how obstructing that is on a path to apply led properly. Same thing happens with normal horizontal grows... Finally you have the freedom to control the light direction and you still point them all straight down. 

Pretend there never was hps, instead of building on the bare hps bulb artifact '360', and consider how the plants, not a surface horizontal or vertical, are best lit.


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## Yodaweed (Apr 3, 2016)

Man this thread turned into a pissing contest really quick....what ever happened with the OP's grow? I am very interested to see results , if you have them. Thank you.


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## getsoutalive (Apr 3, 2016)

Sativied said:


> And that is were the main error in your imaginary design lies.......


It is not my design, imaginary or real. It was the design posted in the OP.

My original point, that got so very confused, was simply that a vertical HPS installation is far more efficient than the horizontal and that the COBs were in for a tough comparison.

I already agreed with most of what you just said in post #43 above. Micro COBs intra-canopy would provide maximum efficiency.


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## legallyflying (Apr 4, 2016)

Well the OP had his car tottaled, broke his cell phone and watched his GF dog get hit by a car in a 3 day span. 

So he did what any reasonable sane person would do... he said "baby, pack your shit up we are going to the desert to go dirt biking" 

So 3 days of pinned 4tg and 5th gear madness in the sunshine has made things better. I have a crew trimming the harvest from our other flower room. 

I will post a couple pics. I am quite pleased that some people with actual knowledge have chimmed in. I am not a newb or particularly stupid individual. Getting solid info on LED online is a TOTAL SHIT SHOW!!! From fan boys to retards to salesmen. 

We grow vert, period. Why... because we get almost 4x more canopy and thus more yield. We are regulated by our flower room footprint...which the measure from the top. So basically that isnt going to change. 

We have about 2 more months to decide how to build out 2 new flower rooms. Sounds like I need another ballast for a proper shootout to determine if LED is the way to go. 

Quality is nice, lower enwrgy use is nice, but this is a commercial enterprise and right now is quality is great under HID so it is all about one single thing... YIELD.


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## redi jedi (Apr 4, 2016)

I don't know shit about LED except they're fucking expensive. For what it would cost to outfit a room with LED equivalent to what you have now, you could probably buy another warehouse...


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## ttystikk (Apr 4, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> Well the OP had his car tottaled, broke his cell phone and watched his GF dog get hit by a car in a 3 day span.
> 
> So he did what any reasonable sane person would do... he said "baby, pack your shit up we are going to the desert to go dirt biking"
> 
> ...


Glad you're feeling better, I'm sorry to hear of your troubles, large and small.

LED info is a mess in large part because it's still very new. At least some people here know wtf they're taking about and even better, they're allowed to post here without fear of retribution by the forum over fears of annoying paid sponsors. Yes, it's already happening.

I think your situation presents some unique opportunities. I look forward to seeing what you do with it!

I'm still voting for a reappearance of Nomad.


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## legallyflying (Apr 13, 2016)

Ok, got the dirt biking out of the way and last weekend won third place in my first Street bike race. Yeah bitch... 44yo and I won a racing trophy  

So anyways, I think the LED are going to end up over the clone table


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## OGEvilgenius (Apr 14, 2016)

I held the thought that LEDs, because of their inherent directional nature might not be the best suited to vertical grows for a long time. COBs sort of changed my thoughts even though they are also directional and therefore are reflecting light, which of course inherently inefficient - the gained efficiency elsewhere could make up for that. So I am curious to see the end results on this. Does the LEDs going to the clone table mean it hasn't worked as hoped?


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## churchhaze (Apr 14, 2016)

Why does every keep talking about light direction? The "problem" with this particular lamp was specifically that the user thought it was pulling 800W when it was really pulling 588W. No way that can beat a DE. Just because the user decided to ignore this, doesn't mean it's not the case.

Direction has nothing to do with this. The people who keep bringing it up are totally missing the point.


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## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

Haven't COBS been out long enough now that we should see some of this supposed killer weed? I haven't seen any quality grown COB buds, just heard a bunch of BS and Crying about me pointing it out. Every Pic I see of buds under COB's looks like shit I would make concentrates from because it has no bag appeal. I have seen them race to get to how ever GPW's makes them feel good, but what about the quality? 
@REALSTYLES the circus you mentioned,was that you getting me restricted from your threads?


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## REALSTYLES (Apr 14, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> Haven't COBS been out long enough now that we should see some of this supposed killer weed? I haven't seen any quality grown COB buds, just heard a bunch of BS and Crying about me pointing it out. Every Pic I see of buds under COB's looks like shit I would make concentrates from because it has no bag appeal. I have seen them race to get to how ever GPW's makes them feel good, but what about the quality?
> @REALSTYLES the circus you mentioned,was that you getting me restricted from your threads?


You haven't seen my threads just face it you are in denial.


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## REALSTYLES (Apr 14, 2016)

Also I didn't block you from my threads quit lying maybe the mods did but not me


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## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> You haven't seen my threads just face it you are in denial.


actually, I have, WHY never pics of the bud,dried and cured. I already know the answer, but I am interested in your excuse.

and .AGAIN, NO BAG APPEAL, ALL COB"S BUDS LOOK LIKE SHIT


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## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

When i grow from seed and have plants with buds like that,^^^ I get rid of that pheno


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## REALSTYLES (Apr 14, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> When i grow from seed and have plants with buds like that,^^^ I get rid of that pheno


You are right that bud looks like shit lol I only got 8oz off 1 plant. You are making yourself look very foolish. Why the hate on cobs? Oh yeah you can't afford them


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## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> You are right that bud looks like shit lol I only got 8oz off 1 plant. You are making yourself look very foolish. Why the hate on cobs? Oh yeah you can't afford them


I could afford to buy a led company, Not why i hate on them. You got 8 oz of low grade pot, good for you. how much did you spend to do it,LMFAO
also, good for you for attacking me personally, AGAIN, it's all you got.


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## REALSTYLES (Apr 14, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> I could afford to buy a led company, Not why i hate on them. You got 8 oz of low grade pot, good for you. how much did you spend to do it,LMFAO
> also, good for you for attacking me personally, AGAIN, it's all you got.


See Chuck you didn't even smoke any of it and you say it's low grade you are sounding like a hater. The bud is Dr krippling Incredible Bulk which I got 2lbs off 4 plants and 800w of cob lights at least I'm happy you hater lol and at least I have some real input to this community unlike you


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## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> See Chuck you didn't even smoke any of it and you say it's low grade you are sounding like a hater. The bud is Dr krippling Incredible Bulk which I got 2lbs off 4 plants and 800w of cob lights at least I'm happy you hater lol and at least I have some real input to this community unlike you


good for you, pat yourself on the back for helping the community. You helped me too. I now know not to buy LED lighting if I want top shelf weed. Led has it's place, but unfortunately, it isn't on that top shelf.


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## testiclees (Apr 14, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> good for you, pat yourself on the back for helping the community. You helped me too. I now know not to buy LED lighting if I want top shelf weed. Led has it's place, but unfortunately, it isn't on that top shelf.


Cmon bro laughably ignorant and juvenile babbling.


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## Flowki (Apr 14, 2016)

I can always pick out Americans. You're ''mostly'' all the same, only able to validate something or someone if it is the best, lynching anything that is not. I don't know if it's the schooling that teaches you this god awful way of living but It's not normal or healty'. << your brain is instantly picking up on bad grammar right?, so I must be wrong in everything stated prior, correct?..


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## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

testiclees said:


> Cmon bro laughably ignorant and juvenile babbling.


 show me 1 pic of top shelf grown LED bud,PLEASE, dried and cured


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## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

Flowki said:


> I can always pick out Americans. You're ''mostly'' all the same, only able to validate something or someone if it is the best, lynching anything that is not. I don't know if it's the schooling that teaches you this god awful way of living or what. It's not normal or healthy.


Not really, BUT if you go around claiming you are the best or can compare to the best, be ready to back it up.


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## REALSTYLES (Apr 14, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> good for you, pat yourself on the back for helping the community. You helped me too. I now know not to buy LED lighting if I want top shelf weed. Led has it's place, but unfortunately, it isn't on that top shelf.


It must suck for you to not be able to grow. All I hear from you is a bunch of shit and I still have not yet seen any pics from you and you have your profile blocked so I can't see any of your threads I wonder why. But I think I know why and it's because you can't grow


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## RM3 (Apr 14, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> Not really, BUT if you go around claiming you are the best or can compare to the best, be ready to back it up.


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## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> It must suck for you to not be able to grow. All I hear from you is a bunch of shit and I still have not yet seen any pics from you and you have your profile blocked so I can't see any of your threads I wonder why. But I think I know why and it's because you can't grow


here we go AGAIN, I went there before, i posted the pics and then got shut down. IT ISN"T ABOUT ME, QUIT TRYING TO MAKE IT SO.


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## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

I posted a 12 gram nugg, then I got a bunch of bullshit and guys posting pics of there scissors, and rollie say I was showing off.it's a effin joke with these guys. they can't show quality grown weed, so they have to attack personally. effin hilarious


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## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

@REALSTYLES HOW COME YOU DON"T HAVE A PIC OF YOUR BUD DRIED AND CURED????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## REALSTYLES (Apr 14, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> @REALSTYLES HOW COME YOU DON"T HAVE A PIC OF YOUR BUD DRIED AND CURED????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


Because it's gone lol and I saw that 12g bud pic and it looked wet when you weighed it no where near dry


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## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> Because it's gone lol and I saw that 12g bud pic and it looked wet when you weighed it no where near dry


lol, looks wet. so predictable!!! you didn't take a pic before it was all gone?hmmm wonder why? wonder why no cob growers do?


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## ttystikk (Apr 14, 2016)

Seriously? Do we need to clog up the man's thread with this clown show?

I'd like to see him get another COB or four added to his setup so it's putting out the PPfD it's supposed to and then do a proper HPS replacement test with Nomad.

Nothing else is going to get the necessary results from an actual head to head.


----------



## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Seriously? Do we need to clog up the man's thread with this clown show?
> 
> I'd like to see him get another COB it for on his setup so it's putting out the PPfD is supposed to and then do a proper HPS replacement test with Nomad.
> 
> Nothing else is going to get the necessary results from an actual head to head.


just answer 1 question,honestly. what is your opinion of realstyles buds? no bullshit either.


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## StashToker (Apr 14, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> See Chuck you didn't even smoke any of it and you say it's low grade you are sounding like a hater. The bud is Dr krippling Incredible Bulk which I got 2lbs off 4 plants and 800w of cob lights at least I'm happy you hater lol and at least I have some real input to this community unlike you


2 lbs on 800 watts is awesome... I don't care who you are.


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## ttystikk (Apr 14, 2016)

StashToker said:


> 2 lbs on 800 watts is awesome... I don't care who you are.


And he's consistent with it, that's no flash in the pan.


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## StashToker (Apr 14, 2016)

COBs can do a great job if used correctly. Many high profile growers are switching to LED. A few of the DIY guys are making shit no HID can compete with currently. A quick youtube search will show you even shitty LEDs can perform if you have enough of them to get proper ppfd.


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## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

weight doesn"t mean shit if the weed is shit. that is why no cob grower posts pics of their weed when it"s dry. they can post thousands of their build of the light and pics of it just trimmed and chopped. but the camera suddenly breaks when the dry and cure is done.lol


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## testiclees (Apr 14, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> show me 1 pic of top shelf grown LED bud,PLEASE, dried and cured


Bro dont be an ass you cant tell shit from a pic. Please stop sucking that de.


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Seriously? Do we need to clog up the man's thread with this clown show?
> 
> I'd like to see him get another COB or four added to his setup so it's putting out the PPfD it's supposed to and then do a proper HPS replacement test with Nomad.
> 
> Nothing else is going to get the necessary results from an actual head to head.


He already said his hps was slaughtering his cob fixtures. Why keep chasing and spending money? His single ended bulbs were killing the cobs, I don't get why people are so afraid of this. Dude would of been nuts going all in, never fix something that aint broken. Its been the saying for a life time.


----------



## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

testiclees said:


> Bro dont be an ass you cant tell shit from a pic. Please stop sucking that de.


I just grew 5 seeds of tangie/ghost train haze. i got rid of the phenos with bud that looked like that. I can tell that every pic of cob grown weed looks like puffed up junk. I have to sell that bud cheap because it has no bag appeal,just big fluffy mess. the phenos with tight bud and bag appeal bud that flys out the door. is the ones i keep. At first, i kept wanting to say it was just strain with led grows, but time after time, alll pics of cob grown weed looks the same.


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 14, 2016)

testiclees said:


> Bro dont be an ass you cant tell shit from a pic. Please stop sucking that de.


Why do you hate DE fixtures?


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## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

what is worth more
8 ounces of fluff that sells for $800
6 ounces of top shelf that sells for $1200 or more


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## testiclees (Apr 14, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Why do you hate DE fixtures?


Bro i dont hate them but they should not be used for fetish or other non approved proposes.I am concerned that Chuck has relations with de's.


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## testiclees (Apr 14, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> what is worth more
> 8 ounces of fluff that sells for $800
> 6 ounces of top shelf that sells for $1200 or more


Chuck stop putting that de where it doesn't belong. Its making your posts idiotic.


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## a mongo frog (Apr 14, 2016)

testiclees said:


> Bro i dont hate them but they should not be used for fetish or other non approved proposes.I am concerned that Chuck has relations with de's.


I find it hard to believe you don't have sex with your fixture that gets you 2-3 pounds per fixture.


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## REALSTYLES (Apr 14, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> what is worth more
> 8 ounces of fluff that sells for $800
> 6 ounces of top shelf that sells for $1200 or more


Fluff??????? Do you wear glasses? that bud was nowhere close to being fluffy. You just got it in for cobs it's all good that you think they don't perform. That tells me you failed when you tried them or did you even use them I forgot because I'm stoned off my shitty led weed lol.


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## testiclees (Apr 14, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> I find it hard to believe you don't have sex with your fixture that gets you 2-3 pounds per fixture.


!!!sharp edges!!!


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## ttystikk (Apr 14, 2016)

Lmao @ this crazy ass thread

Sci Fi robots, dirt bike racing, shoving lights bulbs where they absolutely do not belong? 

Where is this all going next?


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## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> Fluff??????? Do you wear glasses? that bud was nowhere close to being fluffy. You just got it in for cobs it's all good that you think they don't perform. That tells me you failed when you tried them or did you even use them I forgot because I'm stoned off my shitty led weed lol.


so, AGAIN, for the hundreth time. how come you didn"t take pics when it dried?


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## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

am I really the only one who sees through the led bullshit? I meanI just don"t see the boys running to say how awesome your bud is.


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## a mongo frog (Apr 14, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> am I really the only one who sees through the led bullshit? I meanI just don"t see the boys running to say how awesome your bud is.


I really don't think led or any light for that matter is bull shit. Application and strain veg time and other factors all play a huge roll in how we choose to grow. Some of the cob guys (not all) don't tell you this when they talk about how great there lights are and how everyones else sucks.


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## Rrog (Apr 14, 2016)

I switched to LED. I liked HPS. I like CMH. I like UV. No hate here


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## ttystikk (Apr 14, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> I really don't think led or any light for that matter is bull shit. Application and strain veg time and other factors all play a huge roll in how we choose to grow. Some of the cob guys (not all) don't tell you this when they talk about how great there lights are and how everyones else sucks.


If by this you mean there's a lot of hype and over promising on the industry, I'd agree with that readily enough.

Lights are measured very simply; performance, in our case PPfD, vs watts expended.

The more PPfD per watt, the better. It just needn't be a lot more complicated than that.


----------



## testiclees (Apr 14, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> am I really the only one who sees through the led bullshit? I meanI just don"t see the boys running to say how awesome your bud is.


Bro that is straight up wing nut idiocy


----------



## StashToker (Apr 14, 2016)

A lot of growers are jaded, too many LED manufacturers in the past have claimed Super LED = some HPS and it didn't perform, leaving a bad rep. But you can now see people like Remo doing LED grows. And you can't say his plants are BS. Growmau5 and Greengene also grow dank you can see the full results of with COBs. There's a few guys running those terrible mars lights growing dank nugs check out medgrower1 on youtube. I'm not saying I know which is better, but dank bud can be grown under COBs and single diode LEDs.


----------



## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

testiclees said:


> Bro that is straight up wing nut idiocy


sure, thats why i have asked hundreds of times for a pic of a finished and dried nugg that doesn"t look like shit, and no one has posted one. I asked if someone could build me a light for $1500 that would grow as good as my Gavita, no one stood up. i just got put on restriction for pointing it out.but i"m a wing nut, a clown, i can't grow, I don"t grow, I dont post pics, yet My bud has no resin, my bud is wet, lets see, anything else they have called me??? I am sure i missed a few.


----------



## testiclees (Apr 14, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> sure, thats why i have asked hundreds of times for a pic of a finished and dried nugg that doesn"t look like shit, and no one has posted one


Bro thats crazy fucking bullshit....point 1is you are a jackass if you think a bud pic proves anything.

Point2 there are loads of contests for "nug of the month" hundreds of growers vote on best looking buds. Those contests are often won by led guys. You logic is a joke. Stop with foolish, wing nut, hid cult of denial.

https://www.420magazine.com/forums/420-contests/273573-nug-month-april-2016-a-4.html


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 14, 2016)

StashToker said:


> A lot of growers are jaded, too many LED manufacturers in the past have claimed Super LED = some HPS and it didn't perform, leaving a bad rep. But you can now see people like Remo doing LED grows. And you can't say his plants are BS. Growmau5 and Greengene also grow dank you can see the full results of with COBs. There's a few guys running those terrible mars lights growing dank nugs check out medgrower1 on youtube. I'm not saying I know which is better, but dank bud can be grown under COBs and single diode LEDs.


And both of those guys told everyone in there side by sides. "Look we're running higher yielding strains." Those 2 are as honest and as real as they come.


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> If by this you mean there's a lot of hype and over promising on the industry, I'd agree with that readily enough.
> 
> Lights are measured very simply; performance, in our case PPfD, vs watts expended.
> 
> The more PPfD per watt, the better. It just needn't be a lot more complicated than that.


Actually no i don't think theres a lot of over promising with cobs/led. Have seen some sick grows. Genes blue dream side by side was epic and totally lab tested. And right now there is a Tahoe og grow thats going on in this community that has a chance to really make some waves in the growing world and more people would most certainly take notice when dude knocks it out the ball park and ends up at coors field. First person on the site to grow a clone only og under cobs. Shits fully exciting! And that dude seems as humble as they come. Its all about application. Realstyles just came on here saying he got 2 units per 800 watts. So basically he's saving 16 dollars a run compared to a guy running 1000 watt fixtures. All this mussel flexing is crazy. It means nothing. We all have good lights. If ones happy with their buds they have good lights. But kill this lamp murder this lamp is lame. Just my thoughts.


----------



## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Actually no i don't think theres a lot of over promising with cobs/led. Have seen some sick grows. Genes blue dream side by side was epic and totally lab tested. And right now there is a Tahoe og grow thats going on in this community that has a chance to really make some waves in the growing world and more people would most certainly take notice when dude knocks it out the ball park and ends up at coors field. First person on the site to grow a clone only og under cobs. Shits fully exciting! And that dude seems as humble as they come. Its all about application. Realstyles just came on here saying he got 2 units per 800 watts. So basically he's saving 16 dollars a run compared to a guy running 1000 watt fixtures. All this mussel flexing is crazy. It means nothing. We all have good lights. If ones happy with their buds they have good lights. But kill this lamp murder this lamp is lame. Just my thoughts.


dude is only 2 weeks in and only his second grow,already has spidermites. odds are against him. b ut i am interested and watching his grow.


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 14, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> dude is only 2 weeks in and only his second grow,already has spidermites. odds are against him. b ut i am interested and watching his grow.


Im also very interested!!! I missed the part about the mites, but they look spot on to me right now as they sit.


----------



## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

testiclees said:


> Bro thats crazy fucking bullshit....point 1is you are a jackass if you think a bud pic proves anything.
> 
> Point2 there are loads of contests for "nug of the month" hundreds of growers vote on best looking buds. Those contests are often won by led guys. You logic is a joke. Stop with foolish, wing nut, hid cult of denial.
> 
> https://www.420magazine.com/forums/420-contests/273573-nug-month-april-2016-a-4.html


go to the first page and first pic posted,it is a dry nugg of incredible bulk,tell me that doesn"t smoke realstyles grow.


----------



## StashToker (Apr 14, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> go to the first page and first pic posted,it is a dry nugg of incredible bulk,tell me that doesn"t smoke realstyles grow.


What do you mean? They look top shelf if trimmed a bit better in my opinion. I don't know either of them or have a vested interest in convincing anyone of anything.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 14, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Actually no i don't think theres a lot of over promising with cobs/led. Have seen some sick grows. Genes blue dream side by side was epic and totally lab tested. And right now there is a Tahoe og grow thats going on in this community that has a chance to really make some waves in the growing world and more people would most certainly take notice when dude knocks it out the ball park and ends up at coors field. First person on the site to grow a clone only og under cobs. Shits fully exciting! And that dude seems as humble as they come. Its all about application. Realstyles just came on here saying he got 2 units per 800 watts. So basically he's saving 16 dollars a run compared to a guy running 1000 watt fixtures. All this mussel flexing is crazy. It means nothing. We all have good lights. If ones happy with their buds they have good lights. But kill this lamp murder this lamp is lame. Just my thoughts.


I'm all for killing obsolete lighting. Metal halide has been superceded by CDM/CMH/LEC. DE is the only kind of HPS worth having, the SE is again obsolete. Lumens per watt per dollar, my assertions make sense.

The only time to grab the cheapest lighting you can get is right when you're starting a grow and low on cash.

Soon enough there will be used LED on the market for people to snap up on a budget.


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm all for killing obsolete lighting. Metal halide has been superceded by CDM/CMH/LEC. DE is the only kind of HPS worth having, the SE is again obsolete. Lumens per watt per dollar, my assertions make sense.
> 
> The only time to grab the cheapest lighting you can get is right when you're starting a grow and low on cash.


The op's single ended bulbs just murdered his cobs. Single ended hps will never be obsolete. Its the number one selling horticulture bulb world wide. Their wicked good.


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## REALSTYLES (Apr 14, 2016)

Just stop @chuck estevez don't get this thread closed because of your issues with cobs. The OP didn't make the light right and if it was me I would have placed some cobs over the top as well.


----------



## Rrog (Apr 14, 2016)

I dont want to get in the middle of this horseshit throwing contest, but I gotta say, the Realstyle buds in that pic look great. Saying otherwise is just picking a fight


----------



## Rrog (Apr 14, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Single ended hps will never be obsolete.


Never! I can see it in 50 years. Hover boards and fields illuminated with HPS and digital ballasts. Yep. That's what I believe


----------



## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

Rrog said:


> I dont want to get in the middle of this horseshit throwing contest, but I gotta say, the Realstyle buds in that pic look great. Saying otherwise is just picking a fight


then again I will ask this question. how come he didnt take pics when it was dried?


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 14, 2016)

Rrog said:


> Never! I can see it in 50 years. Hover boards and fields illuminated with HPS and digital ballasts. Yep. That's what I believe


Ok 50 years. Your probably right. My bad.....


----------



## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> Just stop @chuck estevez don't get this thread closed because of your issues with cobs. The OP didn't make the light right and if it was me I would have placed some cobs over the top as well.


uh oh,chucks making good points again,. someone, and we won't mention names must be getting ready to report this thread. lol


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 14, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Ok 50 years. Your probably right. My bad.....


Five, tops. By then, COB LED will no longer be unknown country and everyone will be wondering wtf we old timers were thinking while we cooked the terpenes off our plants with hot lights! LOL

It's my gift and my job to see into the technological future. Am I saying that no one will use them at all anymore? Nope! Didn't say that! After all, there's still guys spinning vinyl records out there...


----------



## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

StashToker said:


> What do you mean? They look top shelf if trimmed a bit better in my opinion. I don't know either of them or have a vested interest in convincing anyone of anything.


that one is not just better trimmed, it is dry and covered in crystal,tight bud. can be sold for top dollar. probably grown under a hps


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## a mongo frog (Apr 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Five, tops. By then, COB LED will no longer be unknown country and everyone will be wondering wtf we old timers were thinking while we cooked the terpenes off our plants with hot lights! LOL


But you know thats not true. No ones cooking terpenes off plants. And in 5 years there will be more single ended bulbs on the market then ever before.


----------



## Rrog (Apr 14, 2016)

My house has recessed LED. Not incandescent. Light bulbs are no more. 

HID is just too inefficient.


----------



## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

I think poison and warrant are looking for some new stage lighting if you need to sell that thing you're building @ttystikk


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 14, 2016)

Rrog said:


> My house has recessed LED. Not incandescent. Light bulbs are no more.
> 
> HID is just too inefficient.


HID rocks for horticulture. So people like Realstyles and ttystikk are paying 16 bucks less then i am from there 800 watt cobs to my 1000 watt hps lamps. Im happy there saving that. For some reason their upset like the 16 bucks is going to brake my bank account.


----------



## Rrog (Apr 14, 2016)

Ya. I like the cooler operating as well. There's that.

HID tech might hang out the longest as heat lamps keeping fries warm. Otherwise it's heading the way of the horse and buggy


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 14, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> But you know thats not true. No ones cooking terpenes off plants. And in 5 years there will be more single ended bulbs on the market then ever before.


You know what? I'm going to take the word of an employee at Colorado's largest concentrated maker over yours. 

Everyone knows there's more terps under LED.


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You know what? I'm going to take the word of an employee at Colorado's largest concentrated maker over yours.
> 
> Everyone knows there's more terps under LED.


Well where are your lab results and where are everyone else's. You've seen Genes you've seen Captains you've seen mine. But everyones talking all this myth and theory with out their own lab results. But wait!!!!!!! There's the far red thread!!!!!! With no lab results. So no everyone doesn't know LED produces more of anything. LED is a great fixture, it has not shown to beat HPS in any lab testesting. I take that back genes blue dream i think test slightly slightly hire under his LED, i may be wrong on that i don't remember.


----------



## churchhaze (Apr 14, 2016)

StashToker said:


> 2 lbs on 800 watts is awesome... I don't care who you are.


It's not 800W! It's 588W!


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 14, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Well where are your lab results and where are everyone else's. You've seen Genes you've seen Captains you've seen mine. But everyones talking all this myth and theory with out their own lab results. But wait!!!!!!! There's the far red thread!!!!!! With no lab results. So no everyone doesn't know LED produces more of anything. LED is a great fixture, it has not shown to beat HPS in any lab testesting. I take that back genes blue dream i think test slightly slightly hire under his LED, i may be wrong on that i don't remember.


Fair enough, mine IS anecdotal- yet very widely shared by those who would be in positron to know and there's good reason underlying it. HID makes the plants hotter and reduces terpenes or evaporates some of them, no one is sure about the whole process. The results are unequivocal, so I agree; testing should be done. 

Until it is, I'm again going to believe those who do it every day, for a living, in large quantities over the tent pros.


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Fair enough, mine IS anecdotal- yet very widely shared by those who would be in positron to know and there's good reason underlying it. HID makes the plants hotter and reduces terpenes or evaporates some of them, no one is sure about the whole process. The results are unequivocal, so I agree; testing should be done.
> 
> Until it is, I'm again going to believe those who do it every day, for a living, in large quantities over the tent pros.


Im not sure what you mean by tent pro. The tent pros on here are all testing out cob fixtures doing great things. Surely thats not a bad thing.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 14, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> It's not 800W! It's 588W!


We have two different grows getting mixed up here. 

@REALSTYLES said he's pulled two from 800W of COB LED. 

The light made by the OP hasn't been seen by anyone but him. We are guessing by the description that it's not putting out what it should, but again, no one seems quite sure. I think we need to make certain he's getting the light he wants and then see about the test.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 14, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Im not sure what you mean by tent pro. The tent pros on here are all testing out cob fixtures doing great things. Surely thats not a bad thing.


They aren't concentrate makers, by and large, and in fact the ones I know agree that terps are better under LED.


----------



## Joedank (Apr 14, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Five, tops. By then, COB LED will no longer be unknown country and everyone will be wondering wtf we old timers were thinking while we cooked the terpenes off our plants with hot lights! LOL
> 
> It's my gift and my job to see into the technological future. Am I saying that no one will use them at all anymore? Nope! Didn't say that! After all, there's still guys spinning vinyl records out there...


did you own a mini- disc player ?
i kid i kid ... 
what ever happened to kind loves(i think) stacked warehouse of leds??? i wonder if they still use that shizzle..?


----------



## chuck estevez (Apr 14, 2016)

hey, fanny packs are back in too


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## StashToker (Apr 14, 2016)

http://www.bulbs.com/learning/phaseoutoverview.aspx


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 14, 2016)

StashToker said:


> http://www.bulbs.com/learning/phaseoutoverview.aspx


LED does that.


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## StashToker (Apr 14, 2016)

I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a HID light at this time, due to the fact that in 4 years they will have to be 200% more efficient or be outlawed. Today there were reports of police at Fort Collins Colorado, going to grows and demanding growers replace 1k HPS with more efficient units.
And I currently use 1000 HPSs.


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 14, 2016)

StashToker said:


> I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a HID light at this time, due to the fact that in 4 years they will have to be 200% more efficient or be outlawed. Today there were reports of police at Fort Collins Colorado, going to grows and demanding growers replace 1k HPS with more efficient units.
> And I currently use 1000 HPSs.


Pretty sure they raided today. Can you show us where they were demanding this replacement today?


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## StashToker (Apr 15, 2016)

The Dude Grows show on youtube is where I heard this. Also a few people discussing it on instagram, but no I cannot find a news article about it. Sorry.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 15, 2016)

Being a Ft Collins resident, perhaps I can help offer some clarity; there's a local ordinance against running HID lighting in multi family dwellings due to risk of fire.

Florescent and LED lighting is fine, because less risk of fire.

College kids love to ignore safety warnings, so they probably got a knock and talk.

Not knowing any details of this specific incident and therefore I'm merely hazarding an educated guess, it sounds like this ordinance being enforced.


----------



## 420producer (Apr 15, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> Well the set up for a flip is easy... it's a double pole, double throw relay. They are like 9 or 10 on ebay but I have only used the bigger 40 amp jobs for my hps set up.
> I'm wondering if you could use "cube" relays. They are much smaller and cheaper, still lookin for a multi cube kind of deal...
> 
> I don't see anyway around not having 160 relays for a 40 light flip... there would be 160 ballasts..
> ...


have you looked into those nanolux 1000 watt flip ballast?


----------



## legallyflying (Apr 15, 2016)

This place is so full of shit fer brain kids. 
10 days till chop, 8 more to dry and get lab results. I can tell you right now out lab rules are a fucking joke and the results don't mean shit


----------



## Amaximus (Apr 15, 2016)

/yawn


----------



## StashToker (Apr 15, 2016)

Not sure about the facts, but someone said Ft Collins were capping light watts to 400 per light. Is this true? @ttystikk


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 15, 2016)

StashToker said:


> Not sure about the facts, but someone said Ft Collins were capping light watts to 400 per light. Is this true? @ttystikk


That sucks, thought you guys were a med state.


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## StashToker (Apr 15, 2016)

It's just heresay until someone shows some facts... Just some people talking, I wanted to be clear about that  I have no idea. That's why I was asking Ttystikk if he had some fact on that, since he lives there.

I'm in Missouri, a prohibition state.


----------



## a mongo frog (Apr 15, 2016)

StashToker said:


> It's just heresay until someone shows some facts... Just some people talking, I wanted to be clear about that  I have no idea. That's why I was asking Ttystikk if he had some fact on that, since he lives there.
> 
> I'm in Missouri, a prohibition state.


I heard anything over 1.21 gigawatts is being prohibited. And if your buying your plutonium from the Libyans in a VW bus that is also frowned upon.


----------



## StashToker (Apr 15, 2016)

Marty, We need to hit 88 MPH and have a lightning bolt ready then! Or this ship aint gonna fly.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 15, 2016)

StashToker said:


> Marty, We need to hit 88 MPH and have a lightning bolt ready then! Or this ship aint gonna fly.





a mongo frog said:


> I heard anything over 1.21 gigawatts is being prohibited. And if your buying your plutonium from the Libyans in a VW bus that is also frowned upon.


I need 1.21 gigawatts just to fire my COBs...


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 15, 2016)

StashToker said:


> Not sure about the facts, but someone said Ft Collins were capping light watts to 400 per light. Is this true? @ttystikk


Uhhhhhh.... havent heard anything like this. 

As stated above, the no HID ordinance is for multi family buildings like apartments and condos. 

Trust me when I tell y'all the police know exactly what's going on in my crib and no one has stopped by to tell me anything like that.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 15, 2016)

StashToker said:


> It's just heresay until someone shows some facts... Just some people talking, I wanted to be clear about that  I have no idea. That's why I was asking Ttystikk if he had some fact on that, since he lives there.
> 
> I'm in Missouri, a prohibition state.


If you're living in misery, you have bigger problems than we do.


----------



## StashToker (Apr 15, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> If you're living in misery, you have bigger problems than we do.


Indeed, but I try to keep up with news.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 15, 2016)

StashToker said:


> Indeed, but I try to keep up with news.


I know several here from KC.


----------



## bmgnoot (Apr 15, 2016)

i sometimes feel like im not fully appreciating the 6cents per kWh im paying for electricity right now..even though there's basically nothing cool to do within a 150 mile radius.


----------



## legallyflying (Apr 22, 2016)

you guys laugh, but the lighting regulations are coming. my ahead not 2017, not 2018, but rest assured, they ARE coming. 

ya know what else is c? my recently approved 800 amp panel!! suck it bitches, im going to make the street lights dim when my lights flip on


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 22, 2016)

legallyflying said:


> you guys laugh, but the lighting regulations are coming. my ahead not 2017, not 2018, but rest assured, they ARE coming.
> 
> ya know what else is c? my recently approved 800 amp panel!! suck it bitches, im going to make the street lights dim when my lights flip on


NICE. Now, my job is to make sure you don't need it.


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## churchhaze (Apr 24, 2016)

It's 588W, not 800W...


----------



## chuck estevez (Apr 25, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> It's 588W, not 800W...


he said he got approved for a new 800 amp panel for his grow room. NOTHING to do with his LED light.


----------



## churchhaze (Apr 25, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> he said he got approved for a new 800 amp panel for his grow room. NOTHING to do with his LED light.


Gotcha, but for the record, the light he made in this thread is 588W. It was a 588W setup trying to compete with a 1000W, not an 800W. Just putting that out there, mainly for you actually. Just because the power supplies are rated up to 200W each doesn't mean they're being loaded that hard. That is determined by the load (leds), not the drivers. 200W is simply where it can't raise the voltage any higher to maintain the output current, and thus max power of the driver.


----------



## chuck estevez (Apr 25, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Gotcha, but for the record, the light he made in this thread is 588W. It was a 588W setup trying to compete with a 1000W, not an 800W. Just putting that out there, *mainly for you actually*. Just because the power supplies are rated up to 200W each doesn't mean they're being loaded that hard. That is determined by the load (leds), not the drivers. 200W is simply where it can't raise the voltage any higher to maintain the output current, and thus max power of the driver.


K,thanks, i actually read that like 10 times already.


----------



## churchhaze (Apr 25, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> K,thanks, i actually read that like 10 times already.


Your welcome!


----------



## Trippyness (Apr 30, 2016)

I really don't see LED doing well Vertical without some good reflectors.
Also this grow needs some more wattage for sure to compete with bare vert 1k instead of almost 600.
Nice thread and nice grow.
PPFD needs to be higher for sure.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 30, 2016)

Trippyness said:


> I really don't see LED doing well Vertical without some good reflectors.
> Also this grow needs some more wattage for sure to compete with bare vert 1k instead of almost 600.
> Nice thread and nice grow.
> PPFD needs to be higher for sure.


Lol @ the idea of vertical LED needing reflectors.

It's a 90 degree tilt. No need to over think it.

This from a guy who's been throwing reflectors away and running vertical grows without them for years now.


----------



## CannaBruh (Apr 30, 2016)

Joedank said:


> did you own a mini- disc player ?
> i kid i kid ...
> what ever happened to kind loves(i think) stacked warehouse of leds??? i wonder if they still use that shizzle..?


I had a minidisk player... in my car :}


----------



## Trippyness (Apr 30, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Lol @ the idea of vertical LED needing reflectors.
> 
> It's a 90 degree tilt. No need to over think it.
> 
> This from a guy who's been throwing reflectors away and running vertical grows without them for years now.


Get a more even spread and increase penetration deep in those trees. COBS for sure work better with optics.


----------



## ttystikk (May 1, 2016)

Trippyness said:


> Get a more even spread and increase penetration deep in those trees. COBS for sure work better with optics.


I'll agree with you on optics for COB LED; I did it more for durability and resistance to wear and tear.

That said, my 80 degree lenses plus the spacing between modules makes for very evenly distributed light across the entire canopy surface. The lenses prevent excess scatter, yet the pattern is still broad enough to allow for great cross lighting of adjacent trellis area. 

Overall I feel like I gain more than I lose with the lenses in place. That's nice, because since the modules are vertically oriented they get bumped, rubbed on, sprayed and leaned on constantly.


----------



## ttystikk (May 1, 2016)

@legallyflying I just pulled my first crop with COB LED. I made a few first run mistakes including too much EC early and running the growing space too cold. Even so, my yield looks to be on par with best ever and the quality is amazing. 

We were able to remove the old crop and replace it with a fresh batch in about an hour.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 1, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> @legallyflying I just pulled my first crop with COB LED. I made a few first run mistakes including too much EC early and running the growing space too cold. Even so, my yield looks to be on par with best ever and* the quality is amazing. *
> 
> We were able to remove the old crop and replace it with a fresh batch in about an hour.


 pics, or it didn't happen!!


----------



## Sativied (May 1, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> pics, or it didn't happen!!


He posted pics but it still didn't happen  he has gone full delusional. My first 400w hps results nearly a decade ago look 10x better... I'd consider his grow failed. Have to take anything shittystick posts with a bag of salt, an industrial size bag. I wonder sometimes if he isn't just trolling, rarely people are that blatantly full of shit.


----------



## CannaBruh (May 1, 2016)

Sativied said:


> My first 400w hps results nearly a decade ago look 10x better...


pics or .....


----------



## chuck estevez (May 1, 2016)

Sativied said:


> He posted pics but it still didn't happen  he has gone full delusional. My first 400w hps results nearly a decade ago look 10x better... I'd consider his grow failed. Have to take anything shittystick posts with a bag of salt, an industrial size bag. I wonder sometimes if he isn't just trolling, rarely people are that blatantly full of shit.


But what he does have is what ALL LED growers have, EXCUSES as to why it wasn't a great run,lol


----------



## churchhaze (May 1, 2016)

I think you're confusing COB growers with T5 growers. They're the ones that make excuses for poor yields. (unless you consider 588W, not 800W, a poor excuse)


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 1, 2016)

@chuck estevez Here's a shitty looking plant grown under COBs. Oh yeah this is my first organic grow diy soil and diy lighting


----------



## Sativied (May 1, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> pics or .....


I don't post pics on request of white (-trash) led fans that have never shown me a decent plant late flower, constantly talk out of their ass, and have zero valid arguments. I have zero to prove and I don't need to exxagarate and brag like shittystick and the other clowns getting excited over cannabis plants that barely survived the cycle.

Not my problem you appearantly are unfamiliar with the great results 400w hps can have.
The original journal is still online. Looks better than what 90% of the pretengineering fanboys here produce. 90% as a matter of speaking, it's way more. I realize you led fans are extremely delusional so it must be hard but yes, my 400watt hps bud turned out better a decade ago than your cobs do for you now. That's not special enough to post pics for, it says nothing about me either, I frequently see first time growers do that. 

I don't think it says a whole lot about led either, it just means you led fans generally suck at growing and don't have a clue what good results are. You stopped caring about the result entirely and blindly focus on the light source rather than the recipients turning the led community here into a farce and a facade. It got too stupid around here, pretengineers connecting cobs together selling them as horticulture lighting while boosting their own poor deficient necrotic plants. It's ludicrous. Sucking each other off for pics of crappy looking plants and results. Heck, led growers don't even need to post pics, they just have to boost cobs like a good fanboy and 20 of you fucktards will offer a handjob. Don't you guys have any dignity... grow some self respect first so you can at least be honest to yourselves and look at results objectively.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 1, 2016)

Sativied said:


> I don't post pics on request of white (-trash) led fans that have never shown me a decent plant late flower, constantly talk out of their ass, and have zero valid arguments. I have zero to prove and I don't need to exxagarate and brag like shittystick and the other clowns getting excited over cannabis plants that barely survived the cycle.
> 
> Not my problem you appearantly are unfamiliar with the great results 400w hps can have.
> The original journal is still online. Looks better than what 90% of the pretengineering fanboys here produce. 90% as a matter of speaking, it's way more. I realize you led fans are extremely delusional so it must be hard but yes, my 400watt hps bud turned out better a decade ago than your cobs do for you now. That's not special enough to post pics for, it says nothing about me either, I frequently see first time growers do that.
> ...


Damn you sound butt hurt really bad. That pic is of my first organic grow no bottled nutes. You sir are straight up jealous and a liar. If I can remember you said you was gonna try leds and what happened? All I see is you talking shit with no backing to your point and here's another shitty looking pic lol


----------



## CannaBruh (May 1, 2016)

just busting balls broseph, you seem hell bent to prove that LEDs don't work or something.

Can't we just come together and put some of that clear rosin I've been seeing in the air?


----------



## Flowki (May 1, 2016)

I spy with my little eye something beginning with A


----------



## platt (May 2, 2016)

omg ^^
Sat...i'm pretty sure you'll ve fun riding those cree beasts


----------



## Sativied (May 2, 2016)

QUOTE="REALSTYLES, post: 12555290, member: 270011"]Damn you sound butt hurt really bad. That pic is of my first organic grow no bottled nutes. You sir are straight up jealous and a liar. If I can remember you said you was gonna try leds and what happened? All I see is you talking shit with no backing to your point and here's another shitty looking pic lolView attachment 3670869[/QUOTE]
All in your head RS. What do you have what I could be jealous about??  You connected led spots together based on supras info and think that puts you in a position that makes someone like me jealous. Zero skills, zero decency, zero dignity, zero intellectual honesty, as dumb as a rock, yet makes me jealous. Absurd to think anyone will ever be jealous of you for growing cannabis under led... so transparently trying to derive ego from growing cannabis. And still pretending you are in my league and in a match... That's actually your best insult. As if I compete in the retard league... too.

"Was gonna try led" 
Never said that "liar". The fact you think I need to "try" led shows nicely how clueless you really are. 

Personally, I don't take credit for what my plants do. That would be like taking credit for not doing stupid things. By the time you manage to finish a grow with healthy plants (where are the leaves...) nobody is going to be jealous buddy, it just means it took you a long time to stop acting stupid or happened to grow some more fast flowering forgiving nasty afghanicas...

Your plants do look better and better though... Well bud anyway (where are the leaves...). You are learning and soon you will be able to ditch the training wheels and grow under real horticulture lighting (that's a joke... Laugh and get that butt unhurt, didn't know gargoyles could cry like babies.)


----------



## Sativied (May 2, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> just busting balls broseph, you seem hell bent to prove that LEDs don't work or something.
> 
> Can't we just come together and put some of that clear rosin I've been seeing in the air?


What good would this thread be without the classic strawman attack from the led cult... just because led fanboys are hell bent on proving that "led works" doesn't mean I automatically have the desire to do the opposite. T5 "works" too. Please understand people with no desire to fool themselves don't do that black and white projection thing, it's a typical fanboy trait. Also typical are the empty accussations from the fanboys, they are all in your head and never actually follow a relevant quote or any valid arguments. In other words, just more bullshit.

I clearly stated I don't think it necessarily says much about the leds, the crap results I see are probably largely a result of people acting dumber than they are. Which fanboys do by definition.

What does not "work" is bullshit, ignorance, stupidity, bullshit, misinformation, bullshit, and intellectual dishonesty, and last but not least, bull shit. Things you guys produce very efficiently, but effectiveness is zero point zero. Things that like @REALSTYLES are only in the cannabis community because prohibition made it worthwhile for uneducated failures with nothing else to add to this planet. None of the led fanboys would be hired in a professional setting and in the rare exceptional case they'd be fired as soon as they open their mouth and thump bibled nonsense. 

And no, I don't think we can. I got bored with you clowns. The led fanboys can only post strawmans and other classic dumb fallacies which makes it hard to even read one sentence of the constant blatant and shameless bullshitting going on in this forum. Can't admit to be wrong about something - and thus incapable of learning in the first place - cause then it's like saying in the led church "led doesn't work". You collectively decided your goal is to save electricity and efficient growing equates to saving electricity yet cry blasphemy when actual plants are introduced in the equation. Too stupid and literally hopeless. 

No matter how many pics you post, it won't change how full of bullshit you guys are. Take my advice, go back to school or learn a trade or skill becauce much sooner than later you will be obsolete and laughed out of the cannabis industry.


----------



## Sativied (May 2, 2016)

platt said:


> omg ^^
> Sat...i'm pretty sure you'll ve fun riding those cree beasts


About 4gpw according to the Bibled lol.. I may just get some philips instead just to fuck with the led fanboys here. Or an old blurple ufo. There were better looking blurple grown buds in the dutch grow forums already before anyone here produced something decent with white cobs designed for bay lighting... Same deal there, mostly uneducated glorified drugdealers who never had an interest in growing plants, but at least they don't kid themselves about what good results entail. People who pull 6 runs a year, max from the space they hace, instead of pretending they grow "efficient" when saving on electricity. If the white cobs were half as great as the led fanboys here pretend, @REALSTYLES wouldn't be living in the ghetto anymore. Same deal if he would have bought a gavtita and asked me for advice two years ago. He'd be the biggest gavita fanboy on the forum and be able to afford a visit to a barber.


----------



## CannaBruh (May 2, 2016)

I'm not gonna spend the time to read all that. We know you don't like LEDs. That has been established.

They are working here, and are a far improvement over conventional HID, whether one is better is subjective. Here, the pros >> any cons, move along.


----------



## ttystikk (May 2, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> I'm not gonna spend the time to read all that. We know you don't like LEDs. That has been established.
> 
> They are working here, and are a far improvement over conventional HID, whether one is better is subjective. Here, the pros >> any cons, move along.


If it's a subjective difference, everyone who's seen or smoked the results around here is convinced of it. So I'd call that a unanimous decision; COB LED brings the dank!


----------



## CannaBruh (May 2, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> If it's a subjective difference, everyone who's seen or smoked the results around here is convinced of it. So I'd call that a unanimous decision; COB LED brings the dank!


I've yet to taste cannabis grown under LED, but I know a ripe banana when I see one. Half of the HID growers cannot even finish a plant properly, no offense to anyone in particular, it's just something I've observed over the last ten or so years.

I've got a few flats of green veggies, kale, spinach, romaine, peppers and they are rocking under 300VA of COB (have not measured true watts)

I'm making a trip out to Colorado here in June will have to meet up with anyone and do some testing


----------



## Sativied (May 2, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> I'm not gonna spend the time to read all that.


Of course not, you much rather make your own shit up... 



CannaBruh said:


> We know you don't like LEDs. That has been established.


Nope, just bullshit again with nothing to back it up. It's you fanboys that "like" led, doesn't mean non-fanboys dislike led. That absurdism from the led community at riu. You have established nothing whatsoever, just crapped out some more bullshit, like usual.

You again, ironically, illustrate your problem so clearly, you're not capable of distinguishing what is true from what you wish. Aka a lack of basic intellect, "the capacity for understanding, thinking, and reasoning, as distinct from feeling or wishing"

I understand, think and reason, you apply feelings, get emotionally invested in light lol and lots and lots of wishful thinking. We're like different species causing major communication problems, hopeless. 



CannaBruh said:


> They are working here.


So does fluo... That simpleton strawman attack "led works" has been addressed and ridiculed enough already so have fun chanting that on your own.


----------



## CannaBruh (May 2, 2016)

Emotionally invested...? 

You seem to be upset I sold all my HPS and MHs and have no second thoughts about it? 

Fluo... in my fluo experience compared to my limited experience with COB its no comparison. I can shove T5s into my eyeballs, you won't find me looking at COBs too often.


I'm speaking from anecdotal experiences and what little knowledge I can share. You seem very emotionally tied up into this. I can objectively walk away from COBs at the blink of an eye if new tech proves itself....can you??


----------



## churchhaze (May 2, 2016)

We get it. You're an ultra-nationalist dutch guy. Do a favor for the rest of the Dutch people and quit acting like such an embarrassment here.


----------



## a mongo frog (May 2, 2016)

Sativied said:


> About 4gpw according to the Bibled lol.. I may just get some philips instead just to fuck with the led fanboys here. Or an old blurple ufo. There were better looking blurple grown buds in the dutch grow forums already before anyone here produced something decent with white cobs designed for bay lighting... Same deal there, mostly uneducated glorified drugdealers who never had an interest in growing plants, but at least they don't kid themselves about what good results entail. People who pull 6 runs a year, max from the space they hace, instead of pretending they grow "efficient" when saving on electricity. If the white cobs were half as great as the led fanboys here pretend, @REALSTYLES wouldn't be living in the ghetto anymore. Same deal if he would have bought a gavtita and asked me for advice two years ago. He'd be the biggest gavita fanboy on the forum and be able to afford a visit to a barber.


Man I'm really liking the philips bulb!!! Crazy growth, This DE tech is off the hook wish i would of started sooner. If i was to really switch over my thinking is id be able to drop 3k worth of lights out of a flower room. Pretty big savings really.


----------



## RM3 (May 3, 2016)

Tis not vertical, but is interesting ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


----------



## testiclees (May 3, 2016)

Sativied said:


> What good would this thread be without the classic *strawman attack* from the led cult... just because led fanboys are hell bent on proving that "led works" doesn't mean I automatically have the desire to do the opposite. T5 "works" too. Please understand people with no desire to fool themselves don't do that black and white projection thing, it's a typical fanboy trait. Also typical are the empty accussations from the fanboys, they are all in your head and never actually follow a relevant quote or any valid arguments. In other words, just more bullshit.
> 
> I clearly stated I don't think it necessarily says much about the leds, the crap results I see are probably largely a result of people acting dumber than they are. Which fanboys do by definition.
> 
> ...


LOL, the strawman jawn is back. Dude you've gotta be kidding with the idiot nonsense that falls out your ass every time you open your hole. Your commitments are so preposterously unhinged they merit zero consideration. Your bloated ego blinds you to the writing on the wall. Remember your "intellectual honesty quest" lol you're a fucking loon.

Grown under v29


----------



## Flowki (May 4, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Tis not vertical, but is interesting ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


I also found it interesting when watching it a while back but he casually dropped in a mistake at the very end in regard to the hps being orientated the wrong way. I'm not an expert but that is lost light and in smaller grows you see people getting big hps closer due to easier managed canopy airflow on top of better footprint reflectors.

Don't care either way what is best anymore as it's a cash race the small consumer often loses in.. but if I was to choose I'd like to see all applicable angles.

That's what half the arguments on this thread derive from. Small timers spent X too much on the promised land. From what I can tell both lights in the optimal setups come out even. Hps runs hotter, if you're in a cold country that's heating saving. LED being cooler makes more sense in hot country's aside from the higher initial investment.


----------



## genuity (May 4, 2016)

Flowki said:


> I also found it interesting when watching it a while back but he casually dropped in a mistake at the very end in regard to the hps being orientated the wrong way. I'm not an expert but that is lost light and in smaller grows you see people getting big hps closer due to easier managed canopy airflow on top of better footprint reflectors.
> 
> Don't care either way what is best anymore as it's a cash race the small consumer often loses in.. but if I was to choose I'd like to see all applicable angles.
> 
> That's what half the arguments on this thread derive from. Small timers spent X too much on the promised land. From what I can tell both lights in the optimal setups come out even. Hps runs hotter, if you're in a cold country that's heating saving. LED being cooler makes more sense in hot country's aside from the higher initial investment.


Best reply ever...


----------



## ttystikk (May 4, 2016)

Flowki said:


> I also found it interesting when watching it a while back but he casually dropped in a mistake at the very end in regard to the hps being orientated the wrong way. I'm not an expert but that is lost light and in smaller grows you see people getting big hps closer due to easier managed canopy airflow on top of better footprint reflectors.
> 
> Don't care either way what is best anymore as it's a cash race the small consumer often loses in.. but if I was to choose I'd like to see all applicable angles.
> 
> That's what half the arguments on this thread derive from. Small timers spent X too much on the promised land. From what I can tell both lights in the optimal setups come out even. Hps runs hotter, if you're in a cold country that's heating saving. LED being cooler makes more sense in hot country's aside from the higher initial investment.


Led makes usable heat. 

DE makes too much.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 4, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Led makes pretendable heat.
> 
> DE makes too much*.for someone who doesn't know how to handle it *


 fixed


----------



## Rrog (May 4, 2016)

Chuck, chuck, chuck...  This is becoming an OCD fixation for you.


----------



## churchhaze (May 4, 2016)

Flowki said:


> That's what half the arguments on this thread derive from. Small timers spent X too much on the promised land. From what I can tell both lights in the optimal setups come out even. Hps runs hotter, if you're in a cold country that's heating saving. LED being cooler makes more sense in hot country's aside from the higher initial investment.


They don't come out even. The cob setup produces a lot more light per watt consumed. Learn the difference between a heater and a lamp.

If you include startup cost in the equation, HPS is likely the best choice for most growers, but that doesn't change the fact that cxb wipes the floor with gavita watt for watt. None of your opinions matter.


----------



## churchhaze (May 4, 2016)

Despite all the doubters (liars) claiming that cobs can't beat HPS, all I've seen on cob journals is "ez mode" grows where the grower pulls over 1g/W. My own results reflect this as well. Why should I listen to the liars?


----------



## a mongo frog (May 4, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> They don't come out even. The cob setup produces a lot more light per watt consumed. Learn the difference between a heater and a lamp.
> 
> If you include startup cost in the equation, HPS is likely the best choice for most growers, but that doesn't change the fact that cxb wipes the floor with gavita watt for watt. None of your opinions matter.


The dude was voicing his beliefs and your super angry and disrespectful. He simply was talking about climate and grow set ups.


----------



## Sativied (May 4, 2016)

HPS creates plenty of "usable heat" of course. LED separates light and heat source. This is turned into a practical advantage because it separates light _control_ from heat _control_. That however is forced and not always desirable or even needed. As long as the intake air is not too high and the exhaust matches than hps provides ideal temperatures for cannabis (around 28C). Hot summer days can be partly easily avoided by keeping veg time short and switching day and night. Pull cool night air from outside through the closet/tent and with 1-2 bulbs you don't need anything but the hps and exhaust to keep things acceptable all year around.

@testiclees Big words, no content, as usual. You getting tired of me pointing out dumb strawman attacks is a good thing imo. Straight up idiocracy that you don't yawn when reading another strawman instead of me pointing it out but that's your problem, not mine.


----------



## churchhaze (May 4, 2016)

Sativied said:


> HPS creates plenty of "usable heat" of course. LED separates light and heat source. This is turned into a practical advantage because it separates light _control_ from heat _control_. That however is forced and not always desirable or even needed. As long as the intake air is not too high and the exhaust matches than hps provides ideal temperatures for cannabis (around 28C). Hot summer days can be partly easily avoided by keeping veg time short and switching day and night. Pull cool night air from outside through the closet/tent and with 1-2 bulbs you don't need anything but the hps and exhaust to keep things acceptable all year around.
> 
> @testiclees Big words, no content, as usual. You getting tired of me pointing out dumb strawman attacks is a good thing imo. Straight up idiocracy that you don't yawn when reading another strawman instead of me pointing it out but that's your problem, not mine.


Bullshit. You have no idea how light and heat works. If you're really going to boast lower efficiency as a benefit, why not boast 250W HPS over than DE 1000W? It generates even MORE heat. Grow with incandescent because it wastes more "useful" energy.


----------



## churchhaze (May 4, 2016)

HPS also separates the heat. It's a *lamp*. 42% of it goes down to warm the canopy while 58% of it heats the reflector and fixture. With my 49% efficient cxb setup, 49% of the heat goes down while 51% goes in the wrong direction (heat sink).

If you had a 100% efficient lamp, 100% of it would go down toward the canopy, the correct direction, while 0% gets trapped in the heat sink. Do you even understand what the purpose of the heat sink is?

More light = more radiation = more radiant heat.

I'm sorry if you can't understand that light = radiant heat.


----------



## churchhaze (May 4, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> The dude was voicing his beliefs and your super angry and disrespectful. He simply was talking about climate and grow set ups.


You're super disrespectful all the time, and when anyone tries to fight back, you give this sob story about how you didn't graduate from high school.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 4, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Despite all the doubters (liars) claiming that cobs can't beat HPS, all I've seen on cob journals is "ez mode" *grows where the grower pulls over 1g/W*. My own results reflect this as well. Why should I listen to the liars?


 of fluff, so what. AGAIN. 10 ounces of fluff or 6 ounces of dank top shelf with hps? No brainer for a smart guy!!


----------



## chuck estevez (May 4, 2016)

Rrog said:


> Chuck, chuck, chuck...  This is becoming an OCD fixation for you.


I haven't even replied in like 2 pages, yet you pick out my 1 reply, talk about ocd rrog. get off my jock man


----------



## churchhaze (May 4, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> of fluff, so what. AGAIN. 10 ounces of fluff or 6 ounces of dank top shelf with hps? No brainer for a smart guy!!


Come on.. you know they aren't growing fluff... I've already been flowering with these for like 2 years now, and my results are basically the same as I used to get with HPS (in terms of quality).


----------



## chuck estevez (May 4, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Come on.. you know they aren't growing fluff... I've already been flowering with these for like 2 years now, and my results are basically the same as I used to get with HPS.


got some dried flower pics?, cause i have asked hundreds of times and all I get are pics of scissors, wet bud, growing bud. never a bud dried and cured that looks like top shelf, I just need to see 1 pic of that.


----------



## Sativied (May 4, 2016)

@churchhaze: Didn't you mean "blasphemy!" 

That's the funniest thing about this led forum, post in horticulture by pros and experts well known widely accepted facts about led and you get all excited and revert to white trash mode.

You've shown too many times you rennounced the lack of reason and are not capable of distinguishing what is true from what you wish to be true. Including the effect different wavelenghts have on temp of the receiver (instead of the source, fool).

You got stuck in strawman attack mode since the Light??? thread where I explained to you that efficiency at the source, wall plug efficiency, lum eff, cannot be directly translated to gpw. Which you showed so nicely with your first grow lol... You melted down so hard in my journal when it turned out the efficiency nonsense was just that, mr. builds highly efficient led and stills pulls 1gpw. After you used a dead cheetah as your avatar to full express your butthurt  :claps: I'm sure your understand I cannot still take your butthurt-fueled nonsense serious, regardless of how much you beg for my attention.

@a mongo frog: that's what people do who cannot defend their claims with valid arguments and don't really know what they are talking about, they get angry and disrespectful. And then get suprised when they are treated as such. It's comical but after 50 reruns it gets boring...


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 4, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> of fluff, so what. AGAIN. 10 ounces of fluff or 6 ounces of dank top shelf with hps? No brainer for a smart guy!!


You don't even know what good buds look like


----------



## ttystikk (May 4, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Come on.. you know they aren't growing fluff... I've already been flowering with these for like 2 years now, and my results are basically the same as I used to get with HPS (in terms of quality).


If your results under COB LED aren't any better than under HPS, I'd have to say you're doing something wrong somewhere.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 4, 2016)

Sativied said:


> @churchhaze: Didn't you mean "blasphemy!"
> 
> That's the funniest thing about this led forum, post in horticulture by pros and experts well known widely accepted facts about led and you get all excited and revert to white trash mode.
> 
> ...


You are talking about yourself again. You must look in the mirror a lot huh


----------



## chuck estevez (May 4, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> You don't even know what good buds look like


LMAO, you certainly haven't shown me any


----------



## chuck estevez (May 4, 2016)

Sativied said:


> @churchhaze: Didn't you mean "blasphemy!"
> 
> That's the funniest thing about this led forum, post in horticulture by pros and experts well known widely accepted facts about led and you get all excited and revert to white trash mode.
> 
> ...


 you mean how @REALSTYLES gets butthurt when he can't win,so he starts with personal attacks, YEP, same ol rerun


----------



## Rrog (May 4, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> get off my jock man


Done


----------



## Sativied (May 4, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> You are talking about yourself again. You must look in the mirror a lot huh


You forgot to add quote tags and my name... projection your projecting on me... No self respecting adult is that childish. Keep it up and you will get stuck in limbo like churchhaze.

Compared to you I probably do look in the mirror "a lot". Can't imagine you _ever_ doing that. How can one face himself after so much delusional nonsense and no money left for a barber 




REALSTYLES said:


> *acts like little bitch*


*treats little bitch how he acts*

See how that works...


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 4, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> you mean how @REALSTYLES gets butthurt when he can't win,so he starts with personal attacks, YEP, same ol rerun


What do you mean when I lose lol I'm winning because I use Cree CXB Gavita destroyers and I'm about to test the new CXA/2 5700K just haven't made up my mind on if I go passive cooling and getting the Meanwell HLG -240H-C and running them at 64% efficient which will cost more to make but I can afford it


----------



## Rrog (May 4, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> You are talking about yourself again. You must look in the mirror a lot huh


Save yourself the annoyance and use the Ignore button. You have better things to do than lower yourself to discussing anything with a meathead


----------



## testiclees (May 4, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> of fluff, so what. AGAIN. 10 ounces of fluff or 6 ounces of dank top shelf with hps? No brainer for a smart guy!!


Cmon chuckster we've been over this. Outright lying cancels your legitimacy. Led produces A+ bud. Youre a plain ass clown liar to pretend otherwise. And you know it.

Keep it real bro.


----------



## Rrog (May 4, 2016)

See Post #291


----------



## Sativied (May 4, 2016)

Just for giggles...

"That means you can control light and temperature more separately from each ... LED toplighting produces significantly less heat, especially less radiation heat,"
-Philips

"This combination makes it easier to control the growing conditions. Because LEDs do not generate any radiation heat, it is possible to control the light and temperature separately."
From Control Temperature and Lighting Separately (lol...)
http://www.lighting.philips.com/b-dam/b2b-li/en_AA/Experience/cases/horticulture/LeoVanHarg/PHIL_151012_CaseStudy_Leo_vd_Harg_UK_A03.pdf

"LED toplighting produces significantly less radiation heat than conventional HPS lamps, so growers can adjust light and temperature more independently. This allows the grower to grow better crops, faster, year-round and control the greenhouse climate more precisely."
-Philips 

"Because LEDs hardly generate radiation heat, it is possible to control the temperature and lighting separately."
-philips

"Such operations provide a grower the ability to more precisely controlfor .... for desired plant responses, LEDs also cast off heat separately from light-emitting"
- smartgrowtechnologies.com

"Light-emitting diode (LED) lighting is growing in popularity ... to not just grow plants, but rather, control the way they grow? ... intensity, and the ability to separate lighting from heating."
- greenhousemagazine

And every other reliable source... As it is a key aspect and foundational knowledge of led. Anyone who claims differently is just blatantly bullshitting. When will you clowns learn that you bullshitting doesn't automatically mean everyone else does that and contrary to you I can back up all my claims (not the strawmen you make of it...).


----------



## churchhaze (May 4, 2016)

Sativied said:


> You got stuck in strawman attack mode since the Light??? thread where I explained to you that efficiency at the source, wall plug efficiency, lum eff, cannot be directly translated to gpw. Which you showed so nicely with your first grow lol... You melted down so hard in my journal when it turned out the efficiency nonsense was just that, mr. builds highly efficient led and stills pulls 1gpw. After you used a dead cheetah as your avatar to full express your butthurt  :claps: I'm sure your understand I cannot still take your butthurt-fueled nonsense serious, regardless of how much you beg for my attention.


Still pulls 1gpw? (as if 1gpw is suddenly a bad thing) That's what I mean about EZ mode! I haven't pulled below 1.1gpw with cobs so far even with my sickliest, most ignored plants where I was too busy to change nutrients. The highest I've measured was 1.6gpw dry with my cxb setup (~310g in a 2'x4' with a 193W light).

But like you've accurately pointed out, I also grow with much lower PPFD than most people which by itself raises gpw.

lol... first grow. Those pictures I posted in your journal were from back when I grew with HPS. Too bad they were removed.


----------



## testiclees (May 4, 2016)

Sativied said:


> @churchhaze: Didn't you mean "blasphemy!"
> 
> That's the funniest thing about this led forum, post in horticulture by pros and experts well known widely accepted facts about led and you get all excited and revert to white trash mode.
> 
> ...


Dude the strawman defense is as flaccid as your heater is better than light engine claim. 
your logic is as comical as the bloated ego you strive to protect.

Your commitment to defending an aging technology with preposterous claims reveals the ridiculous fear you have of suffering a blow to your bloated self image.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 4, 2016)

and after all the personal attacks, NOT 1 PIC OF A FINISHED BUD< THEY AVOID IT LIKE THE PLAGUE. LMFAO


----------



## churchhaze (May 4, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> and after all the personal attacks, NOT 1 PIC OF A FINISHED BUD< THEY AVOID IT LIKE THE PLAGUE. LMFAO


I'm not disagreeing with you here, but to be fair you don't many pictures either. You basically asked me to take a picture of a bunch of sandwich bags stuffed full of weed and post it on the internet.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 4, 2016)

wonder why THE HORTICULTURE LIGHTING BIG GUYS aren't dumping D.E and going to LED/COB
wonder why they are knocking off D.E tech left and right,HMMMM
wonder why EVERY guy who jumps on the LED bandwagon turns into a douche bag? again, hmmmm?


----------



## chuck estevez (May 4, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> I'm not disagreeing with you here, but to be fair you don't really post much in terms of pictures either.


I posted a 12 gram nugg, they tried to say it was wet or had no resin, all kinds of shit. I post, they cry and get thread closed. same ol story


----------



## chuck estevez (May 4, 2016)

bottom line,
if you think you can build a light in your garage that can out grow a top horticulture companies product, you are delusional
good day!!!


----------



## churchhaze (May 4, 2016)

We don't manufacture the chips or the drivers though. We just put them together.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 4, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> We don't manufacture the chips or the drivers though. We just put them together.


and I can appreciate the efforts. its when you try and compare your gargae light grow to one of horticultures best grow lights, then cry when someone tells you it isnt the same.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 4, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> and I can appreciate the efforts. its when you try and compare your gargae light grow to one of horticultures best grow lights, then cry when someone tells you it isnt the same.


Just face it my light is better hahaha 400watts=1lb you can't do that with Gavita or any HPS for a fact. My 400w cob light kicks the dog shit out of what you are using but all is not lost I have a thread that will show you how to make one of your own and when you see the light you'll be thanking me


----------



## Flowki (May 4, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> He simply was talking about climate and grow set ups.


I would imagine having to run a 1000w+ heater almost entirely day/night in a cold country if using LED. In a country with mild summer climate forcing night flower you'd likely end up with some heating during the cooler night most likely?.

Do people factor in heating expense when discussing gpw?. If a LED is to get .5gpw more but require an extra 750w per day on avg in heating, it may not look so appealing to a cold country grower. I've never done the maths on it.

But I suppose if temps were that low with LED you could through in a 400W hps or HID for both extra heat and light. Or maybe two CMH, they run pretty cool I read?.


----------



## Sativied (May 4, 2016)

As you guys show in every discussion and on every page of the Bibled, and as I pointed out before, you have collectively decided what matters to you is your light source, while any grower is concerned with the target instead, with photosynthesis, not lum eff.

It's just idiotic to think the par light energy transferred to photosynthate heats up the plant the same way as for example IR. You are basically claiming free energy  It's not even true for blue vs red and shows again you know nothing about what you pretend to do. You discuss light at the source and energy in a hypothetical vacuum, as it is in textbooks, and as usual, as soon as the actual effect on the target, the plants, is introduced ,what it should be all about of course, it shows clearly you guys have nothing more than the inherent effect of running led spots soft. Your premise is already skewed and deceptive, of course anything derived from it is going to be bullshit too. 

Something is efficient at something. Not efficient period. (That alone dismisses a huge amount of bullshit posts in this failed community). Your efficiency numbers do not translate to what actually matters. I'd be growing 3-4gpw with white cobs if that were the case and we all know that is bullshit. 

With a few exceptions the led fanboys never finished a decent run under hps, of which there are many thousands online, yet think they can compare it to oranges. Wasting other people's money with your epeen growing desire to collectively reinforce your nonsense. It's no less stupid than believe in an all controlling skyman, hence the so fitting word Bibled.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 4, 2016)

Remember I used to grow for a dispensary and have grown under 20k of HPS and I'm sold on cobs and have enough experience to know the difference. @Sativied and @chuck estevez I'm a broke ass bum with no cash laying around 

Hahaha and I'm broke


----------



## ttystikk (May 4, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> Just face it my light is better hahaha 400watts=1lb you can't do that with Gavita or any HPS for a fact. My 400w cob light kicks the dog shit out of what you are using but all is not lost I have a thread that will show you how to make one of your own and when you see the light you'll be thanking me


Now this is enlightened thinking!


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 4, 2016)

Sativied said:


> As you guys show in every discussion and on every page of the Bibled, and as I pointed out before, you have collectively decided what matters to you is your light source, while any grower is concerned with the target instead, with photosynthesis, not lum eff.
> 
> It's just idiotic to think the par light energy transferred to photosynthate heats up the plant the same way as for example IR. You are basically claiming free energy  It's not even true for blue vs red and shows again you know nothing about what you pretend to do. You discuss light at the source and energy in a hypothetical vacuum, as it is in textbooks, and as usual, as soon as the actual effect on the target, the plants, is introduced ,what it should be all about of course, it shows clearly you guys have nothing more than the inherent effect of running led spots soft. Your premise is already skewed and deceptive, of course anything derived from it is going to be bullshit too.
> 
> ...


I bet you've never grown 20lbs in 1 run I did. How's the chocolate Swiss Miss


----------



## CannaBruh (May 4, 2016)

Sativied said:


> As you guys show in every discussion and on every page of the Bibled, and as I pointed out before, you have collectively decided what matters to you is your light source, while any grower is concerned with the target...


No, what matters is being aware of the advances in technology.

Beings that it would be an incredible upfront cost to implement COB in place of existing DE or conventional HPS, I couldn't imagine justifying the value added, or at least many bean counters are not trying to hear it. This might explain why we're not seeing the big guys with warehouses full of COBs, they aren't trying to pay for the bleeding edge tech. 

When advances drive costs down, I venture a guess you'll see more and more LED equipped large scale operations.


----------



## testiclees (May 4, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> and I can appreciate the efforts. its when you try and compare your gargae light grow to one of horticultures best grow lights, then cry when someone tells you it isnt the same.


chuck your posts are deteriorating. You've arrived at the point of spouting the childish hysteria of a common lout


----------



## testiclees (May 4, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> I posted a 12 gram nugg, they tried to say it was wet or had no resin, all kinds of shit. I post, they cry and get thread closed. same ol story


chuck you have become the idiot who employs the biggest cock argument as if it's something that thoughtful folks consider legitimate.
put you childish biases and imbecilic logic aside. 

Things are changing chuck. Tech marches on and doesn't give a fuck about your isolated ignorance or sativied's ego


----------



## chuck estevez (May 4, 2016)

LMFAO, i could post 20 grand in cash,but im not a giant douchebag. funny, still NOT ONE BUD PIC WORTH A SHIT!!!! worthless fucks, your opinions mean shit


----------



## Rrog (May 4, 2016)

@REALSTYLES readin' up on Worms Eat My Garbage! Good stuff.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 4, 2016)

Rrog said:


> @REALSTYLES readin' up on Worms Eat My Garbage! Good stuff.


I have a Worm Factory 360 and I have that book lol


----------



## ttystikk (May 4, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> No, what matters is being aware of the advances in technology.
> 
> Beings that it would be an incredible upfront cost to implement COB in place of existing DE or conventional HPS, I couldn't imagine justifying the value added, or at least many bean counters are not trying to hear it. This might explain why we're not seeing the big guys with warehouses full of COBs, they aren't trying to pay for the bleeding edge tech.
> 
> When advances drive costs down, I venture a guess you'll see more and more LED equipped large scale operations.


This. It's already happening in exactly this fashion.


----------



## Rrog (May 4, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> I have a Worm Factory 360 and I have that book lol
> 
> View attachment 3673412


Me too


----------



## chuck estevez (May 4, 2016)

large grow houses still use advanced nutes, doesnt mean shit, when sunlight,hydrofarm or any other major suppliers start selling a light they cant keep in stock, then you can say something is happening. until then, gavitas have done just that for a reason


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 4, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> large grow houses still use advanced nutes, doesnt mean shit, when sunlight,hydrofarm or any other major suppliers start selling a light they cant keep in stock, then you can say something is happening. until then, gavitas have done just that for a reason


And you think cobs haven't, you better do some more research and actually try(spend some money) on cobs and see for yourself. You won't know until you've tried them.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> And you think cobs haven't, you better do some more research and actually try(spend some money) on cobs and see for yourself. You won't know until you've tried them.


what research? ANYONE who isn't a dumbass like you can EASILY go to sunlight or hydrofarm website and see. they DO NOT SELL COB LIGHTING!! they do sell TONS of DE units though.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> what research? ANYONE who isn't a dumbass like you can EASILY go to sunlight or hydrofarm website and see. they DO NOT SELL COB LIGHTING!! they do sell TONS of DE units though.


Hey Chuck here is a crusher. I've helped people with their lights, have you? And as for Hydrofarm and Sunlight they don't manufacture the products just put their name on it and I'm the fool? Get a grip on reality


----------



## Sativied (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> Remember I used to grow for a dispensary and *have grown under 20k of HPS and I'm sold on cobs and have enough experience to know the difference.* @Sativied and @chuck estevez I'm a broke ass bum with no cash laying around View attachment 3673338
> 
> Hahaha and I'm broke





REALSTYLES said:


> Just face it my light is better hahaha *400watts=1lb you can't do that with Gavita or any HPS for a fact. *


Intellect: the capacity for understanding, thinking, and reasoning, as distinct from feeling or wishing.

1.2gpw is very doable with hid. Especially and with DE. Has been done with 400w cheap hps even. Silly bullshitter. Simple matter of spreading it out and run low ppf. 

So...again you show your Bibled efficiency numbers mean shit. You might want to look away and close your eyes for a few seconds church 

How efficient is your setup according to you (60-ish probably), how efficient is my se magnetic ballast hps according to you (35-19% reflector losses minus wall reflection losses is 25%).... do the bibled math for led, for hps, compare the actual results and you know it's all bullshit. You should be pulling _far_ over 2gpw to back up your nonsense claims, your about a pound short silly.

"Builds led twice as efficient as hps... ...gets 1.2gpw" - Unlucky Brian.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> Hey Chuck here is a crusher. *I've helped people with their lights*, have you? And as for Hydrofarm and Sunlight they don't manufacture the products just put their name on it and I'm the fool? Get a grip on reality









they don't make the stuff, THEY JUST SELL THE MOST, AND WAIT FOR IT
*





HORTICULTURE products.*
not garage homemade streetlights
now that is reality,douchebag. post another pic of some money.what was that like $1500, that's my monthly mortgage.
lmk if you want to see what 10 g's in cash looks like.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> Hey Chuck here is a crusher. *I've helped people with their lights, have you*? And as for Hydrofarm and Sunlight they don't manufacture the products just put their name on it and I'm the fool? Get a grip on reality


well, that does it, he helped people with their lights, must mean that LED is superior lighting, makes perfect sense.



if I help 1 person not fall for LED BS, then I have done my job and feel great about it.


----------



## Rrog (May 5, 2016)

@REALSTYLES - Pretty sure the group at large has made their decision. Some here have other agendas, and have developed compulsive behavior not based on data / science. Others like the tech.

Arguing with 2-3 people who clearly argue against science isn't winning anything, unless it's also perhaps entertaining to you.


----------



## CannaBruh (May 5, 2016)

This is just sadly pathetic.

....I'll await the following multi paragraph response about how we're all emotionally involved because we punted our obsolete tech and moved towards the future.


----------



## RM3 (May 5, 2016)

I have not bashed the LED camp and I understand the bashing cause I get bashed for usin T5's. But my reason for not bashing is that I have experimented with LED and the results were amazing. Unfortunately I did not finish the experiment I only vegged a plant with the LED didn't flower it. But a 50 watt LED completely blew away a 400 watt CMH in veg 

and that 50 watt LED light was 5 feet off the canopy while the 400 was 2 feet off, you see I figured out a long time ago what was missing in the LED camp and tested it (had a convo with @ttystikk last night about this) 

this was the light
.


----------



## RM3 (May 5, 2016)

A side by shot of the 2 plants one on the right was LED, left was CMH
.


----------



## RM3 (May 5, 2016)

And this was as far as I took it, I do have another experiment I wanna run, just need the funds to buy the light
.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

EVERYONE knows LED are great for vegging, even blurples. It is the finished product that matters though and there is NOT 1 person willing to post a finished LED grown Bud, HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM????


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

Rrog said:


> @REALSTYLES - Pretty sure the group at large has made their decision. Some here have other agendas, and have developed compulsive behavior not based on data / science. Others like the tech.
> 
> Arguing with 2-3 people who clearly argue against science isn't winning anything, unless it's also perhaps entertaining to you.


people building their lights in their garage compared to a horticulture companies PROVEN product is SCIENCE? LMFAO


----------



## CannaBruh (May 5, 2016)

Horticulture companies, or distributors... anyone can sell a light. Can you make one? Does it matter? Does it matter than LEDs grow plants, apparently it's threatening to some for some. Change is scary.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> Horticulture companies, or distributors... anyone can sell a light. Can you make one? Does it matter? Does it matter than LEDs grow plants, apparently it's threatening to some for some. Change is scary.


companies that sell PROVEN grow lights, and can't keep them in stock AND YET, they QUIT selling LED lights. Keep trying
only BWGS sells led and they sell KIND, which even you guys don't like


----------



## CannaBruh (May 5, 2016)

They've been selling and trying to prove LED lights since mid 2000s, hard core btw. 

Convincing us that LEDs were = to the HID equiavalent (I'm talking industry folks, you know the distributors that support the hydro shops that stick their name on some asian contract manufacturers equipment and call it hydrofarm or other bullshit)

Nevermind that they don't see the margin in the fact that COBs are very expensive right now... nevermind that their business model is profit driven, not quality cannabis driven.

I think those of us in the latter camp, that have made a move or at least an attempt at seeing what these COBs can do are not so much worried about our name on a light to make some money (well maybe not all of us), but many just want the most efficient, efficacy, quality etc.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

it is so simple to shut me up, just 1 pic of a finished LED grown bud that is top shelf. Come on guys, you can take pic of your rent money, your plant growing, your scissors, but your cameras suddenly break when the bud is finished, what up with that?


----------



## CannaBruh (May 5, 2016)

Either or fallacy eh

Nevermind that lights light, I want other evidence!


----------



## CannaBruh (May 5, 2016)

Show us pics of your failed buds under COBs...... side by side with your HID monsters..


----------



## CannaBruh (May 5, 2016)

I think the jury is still out (though it's not), the results will lag but will slowly catch up as the price for the tech goes down and more and more gardens are outfitted with COBs.

It's only a matter of time now.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

^^^ you should change your screename to canna HUH?


----------



## CannaBruh (May 5, 2016)

lol ok

chuck I know HIDs work, they work great. I also know that COBs work, because I tried it, and I'm completely blown away.

Can you put aside your preconceptions and ego and have a conversation?


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> lol ok
> 
> chuck I know HIDs work, they work great. I also know that COBs work, because I tried it, and I'm completely blown away.
> 
> Can you put aside your preconceptions and ego and have a conversation?


I know cobs grow weed, i know watt for watt, they grow MORE. They just don't grow the same quality bud as my gavita. and I have shown that over and over. as soon as nostyle admits it, the better things will be. it really is that simple.


----------



## CannaBruh (May 5, 2016)

I'm not gonna argue with you about that. I haven't seen the upper tier output from COB vs that from HPS.

Although, I'm gonna throw a little musical analogy at this. I can put just about any shitty guitar in the hands of a great player, and it will sound like that player. Put some COBs in the hands of some of the best growers and see what they come up with.

As far as I can tell, there's a huge backlash against COBs but never did I see this against T5s, or CFL... and dudes were rocking perpetual CFL grows under 100W for years and although they may not have been massive kolas, it was top shelf dank no less.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> I'm not gonna argue with you about that. I haven't seen the upper tier output from COB vs that from HPS.
> 
> Although, I'm gonna throw a little musical analogy at this. I can put just about any shitty guitar in the hands of a great player, and it will sound like that player. Put some COBs in the hands of some of the best growers and see what they come up with.
> 
> As far as I can tell, there's a huge backlash against COBs but never did I see this against T5s, or CFL... and dudes were rocking perpetual CFL grows under 100W for years and although they may not have been massive kolas, it was top shelf dank no less.


I have used the guitar analogy, love it. Same as golf clubs. LED have been around long enough that some great grower has tried them. YET, still NOT 1 Pic of a top shelf finished nugg. they are happy to post a pic of the plant right before chop, when all plants pretty much look good.
But I have seen it happen all the time. after it dries, your like WTF happened? Must be a real bummer for led guys to have that happen ALL THE TIME.


----------



## RM3 (May 5, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> but never did I see this against T5s


I get a bunch, perhaps not this much, but still a bunch LOl


----------



## RM3 (May 5, 2016)

If anyone wants to donate $1000 to the cause would be happy to produce some awesome LED buds


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> If anyone wants to donate $1000 to the cause would be happy to produce some awesome LED buds


I offered to pay $1500 to anyone who could build me a led light that could compare to my gavita, ALL OF THEM tucked tail and ran.


----------



## RM3 (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> I offered to pay $1500 to anyone who could build me a led light that could compare to my gavita, ALL OF THEM tucked tail and ran.


well I don't wanna build one, I have one I wanna buy and I am pretty sure it would change things but I don't have the grand it cost to spare at the moment,,,,,,,

You know me, I think outside the box, the light I want to buy is not a "grow" light


----------



## ttystikk (May 5, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> lol ok
> 
> chuck I know HIDs work, they work great. I also know that COBs work, because I tried it, and I'm completely blown away.
> 
> Can you put aside your preconceptions and ego and have a conversation?


I think he's lost/given up that ability long ago, which is why I'm thankful for the ignore button.


----------



## ttystikk (May 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I have not bashed the LED camp and I understand the bashing cause I get bashed for usin T5's. But my reason for not bashing is that I have experimented with LED and the results were amazing. Unfortunately I did not finish the experiment I only vegged a plant with the LED didn't flower it. But a 50 watt LED completely blew away a 400 watt CMH in veg
> 
> and that 50 watt LED light was 5 feet off the canopy while the 400 was 2 feet off, you see I figured out a long time ago what was missing in the LED camp and tested it (had a convo with @ttystikk last night about this)
> 
> ...


'Twas a lively conversation, too, with lots of mutual friends from all over the country. A most thoroughly enjoyable afternoon!


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

you ignore me because I tell it like it is and you can't handle the truth, that is why you haven't posted ANYTHING on that piece of crap you built


----------



## RM3 (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> you ignore me because I tell it like it is and you can't handle the truth, that is why you haven't posted ANYTHING on that piece of crap you built


tis actually not a piece of crap, I've seen it and yes there are a few adjustments he needs to make but and I do give him credit for this, he is workin on it (but I'll let him splain it when he is ready)


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> tis actually not a piece of crap, I've seen it and yes there are a few adjustments he needs to make but and I do give him credit for this, he is workin on it (but I'll let him splain it when he is ready)


so, you can't just plug it in and grow dank bud? HMMMMM? i did that with ALL 3 of my gavitas. absolutely crushed it from the first run on


----------



## RM3 (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> so, you can't just plug it in and grow dank bud? HMMMMM? i did that with ALL 3 of my gavitas. absolutely crushed it from the first run on


Tis the reality of makin your own, testing and alterations must be done


----------



## Rrog (May 5, 2016)

I wish more forums had the Ignore Button


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Tis the reality of makin your own, testing and alterations must be done


this has been my point. You can buy a KNOWN horticulture lamp, hang it and grow dank. LED is going to require a lot of work an they still aren't there, YET, they want to continue to claim they grow BETTER than a DE. you see where I am coming from?


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

Rrog said:


> I wish more forums had the Ignore Button


you used to like me UNTIL you heavily invested Into LED, now you are a douchebag because of it. to bad


----------



## RM3 (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> this has been my point. You can buy a KNOWN horticulture lamp, hang it and grow dank. LED is going to require a lot of work an they still aren't there, YET, they want to continue to claim they grow BETTER than a DE. you see where I am coming from?


I do honestly believe the light I shared with you would compete with a DE


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I do honestly believe the light I shared with you would compete with a DE


a shitty set of golf clubs in a pros hands,lol J/K But your approach is as usual, different than the others


----------



## RM3 (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> a shitty set of golf clubs in a pros hands,lol J/K But your approach is as usual, different than the others


While I don't golf, I do play guitar and I rock my BC Rich Warlock 

http://420tube.org/watch_video.php?v=X99SUWYDW3RG

Me thinks you know what I could do with that light


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

so funny @Rrog it's like we both used to drive chevy's and you bought a ford, now you don't like me because I talk shit on fords. What a fuckin baby you are.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> While I don't golf, I do play guitar and I rock my BC Rich Warlock
> 
> Me thinks you know what I could do with that light


My first lectric was a warlock.


----------



## RM3 (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> My first lectric was a warlock.


go back I added a vid lol


----------



## Rrog (May 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> While I don't golf, I do play guitar and I rock my BC Rich Warlock
> 
> http://420tube.org/watch_video.php?v=X99SUWYDW3RG
> 
> Me thinks you know what I could do with that light


I dig your video!


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> go back I added a vid lol


Like the little rock star ending,lol


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

@RM3 
All the parts are available to build your own guitar in your garage. How come you still play a guitar made by someone else?


----------



## RM3 (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> @RM3
> All the parts are available to build your own guitar in your garage. How come you still play a guitar made by someone else?


While I can play a guitar, I am not a luthier so therefore do not have the experience to know the tweaks and nuances that make a guitar great 

That being said there is as of yet not a great LED light to be had as the notion is in its infancy. I do however believe it will happen

There have been a vast # of truly wonderful innovations come from folks tinkering in their garages


----------



## ttystikk (May 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> While I can play a guitar, I am not a luthier so therefore do not have the experience to know the tweaks and nuances that make a guitar great
> 
> That being said there is as of yet not a great LED light to be had as the notion is in its infancy. I do however believe it will happen
> 
> There have been a vast # of truly wonderful innovations come from folks tinkering in their garages


...and basements!


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

RM3 said:


> While I can play a guitar, I am not a luthier so therefore do not have the experience to know the tweaks and nuances that make a guitar great
> 
> That being said *there is as of yet not a great LED light to be had as the notion is in its infancy*. I do however believe it will happen
> 
> There have been a vast # of truly wonderful innovations come from folks tinkering in their garages


 K,thanks


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

@Rrog will probably put you on ignore for that comment.


----------



## RM3 (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> @Rrog will probably put you on ignore for that comment.


Well, like I said, if I had a grand to play with, I'd change a few notions 

All are welcome to follow my sig link, use code Reality and fund the experiment


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

@chuck estevez hahahahaha here's some dried bud pics so now what?

 
 
 
Where is the fluff??? Wait there isn't any hahahahaha I'm done with this witness your honor hahahahaha


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

^^^^not bad, not top shelf though. and the worst trim job ever. did you go to your friends and take pics of some hid grown weed?


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> ^^^^not bad, not top shelf though. and the worst trim job ever.


lets see your buds now and now it's a bad trimmed bud make up your mind


----------



## RM3 (May 5, 2016)

hey Chuck, how do they compare with these T5 buds ?
.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

^^^ a little better trimming too, but otherwise, top shelf from the looks.


----------



## churchhaze (May 5, 2016)

Check out these results from @tick tack toe that just came in http://rollitup.org/t/grow-with-me-cxb3070-3000k.887914/page-6

Another result showing that cxb is like growing with EZ mode on.



tick tack toe said:


> so the totals after growing under 200 watts of LED
> ...
> totals 337 grams (12 zip)!!!! That is 1.685 grams per watt in a 80 by 80cm tent!.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> lets see your buds now and now it's a bad trimmed bud make up your mind


take a close look at RM3's bud if you want top shelf, yours isn't even close to his. you had to go run outside to try and get a frosty pic of your bud,lol


----------



## churchhaze (May 5, 2016)

I honestly can't judge the quality of neither realstyles nor RM3's buds by their pictures other than how dense they look. I can't see how you'd judge the quality without smoking.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Check out these results from @tick tack toe that just came in http://rollitup.org/t/grow-with-me-cxb3070-3000k.887914/page-6
> 
> Another result showing that cxb is like growing with EZ mode on.


MEH!! still looks a little fluffy, and how come led guys always grow bluedream, then jump up an down about the yield?


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> I honestly can't judge the quality of neither realstyles nor RM3's buds by their pictures other than how dense they look.  I can't see how you'd judge the quality without smoking.


RM3's bud looks like someone sprinkled sugar all over it. Nosttyles had to run out into the sunlight to try and get some frost to show on his.


----------



## churchhaze (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> MEH!! still looks a little fluffy, and how come led guys always grow bluedream, then jump up an down about the yield?


Give me a break!! those look like dense chunky colas!!


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

this is a dense cola


----------



## churchhaze (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> this is a dense cola View attachment 3674058


I"m not saying it's not, but I don't really see why that matters either. It's not like everyone else is showing popcorn. It could also have something to do with strain and canopy training styles. I chop all the buds off my colas anyway when they go into the cardboard boxes, and ultimately plastic bags.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> take a close look at RM3's bud if you want top shelf, yours isn't even close to his. you had to go run outside to try and get a frosty pic of your bud,lol


You're such a hater that pic was taken under my sucky cob light I made and you thought that pic was taken outside under the sun hahahaha


----------



## Rrog (May 5, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> ... but I don't really see why that matters either.


...because it doesn't matter...


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> I"m not saying it's not, but I don't really see why that matters either. It's not like everyone else is showing popcorn. It could also have something to do with strain and canopy training styles. I chop all the buds off my colas anyway when they go into the cardboard boxes, and ultimately plastic bags.


this is what I was originally trying to find out, why did all finished led bud lack bag appeal. I wanted to chock it up to strain, or grower error. but the more i see, it always comes back to the light. I grew an og for years under single ended 100 watt horti. after growing them under de, I consistently get 2 ounces more than I ever did, and the quality is better. There is no variables in that outcome. just results


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> You're such a hater that pic was taken under my sucky cob light I made and you thought that pic was taken outside under the sun hahahaha


the one in your hand is you outside liar,either way, where'the frost on those little nuglets?


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

Rrog said:


> ...because it doesn't matter...


then why are you SOOOO butthurt?


----------



## Rrog (May 5, 2016)

@REALSTYLES what strain is that? Just curious. Looks great


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> then why are you SOOOO butthurt?


I'm nowhere near butt hurt from you because I knew you'd come up with something else to whine about.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

Rrog said:


> @REALSTYLES what strain is that? Just curious. Looks great


first pic La Cookies and the other pics Animal Pie.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> I'm nowhere near butt hurt from you because I knew you'd come up with something else to whine about.


well, I quoted Rrog and you thought It was about you, so Yeah, you're even more butthurt than him,lol


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

@chuck estevez I didn't trim the bud I tried out a trimming machine my friend had and I think it did a good job for a machine. I was curious and gave it a go that's what people who want to get ahead do.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> @chuck estevez I didn't trim the bud I tried out a trimming machine my friend had and I think it did a good job for a machine. I was curious and gave it a go that's what people who want to get ahead do.


no, that is just what led growers continually do. come up with excuses. and you're a champ at it.


----------



## Rrog (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> @chuck estevez I didn't trim the bud I tried out a trimming machine my friend had and I think it did a good job for a machine. I was curious and gave it a go that's what people who want to get ahead do.


You don't have to answer or explain to anyone. You have your game down


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

someone is real salty here's my old HPS grow and I still gonna tell you cobs are better


----------



## Rrog (May 5, 2016)

I like. I like very much


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

@chuck estevez hahahahaha I still can't get over you thought I took this pic outside. It's the best compliment you've ever given me thanks for your support Chuck on cob lighting remember you said I took this pic outside hahahahaha


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

^^^^ you mssed the point entirely. but you do that a lot. im glad you think it was some sort of compliment.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> ^^^^ you mssed the point entirely. but you do that a lot. im glad you think it was some sort of compliment.


You have no point you still thought my light was the sun hahahaha you are sooooo buttt huuurrrttt and you did it too yourself. Think before you type hahahahaha


----------



## CannaBruh (May 5, 2016)

I think you have to have had your hands on large clunky ballasts and glass bulbs to appreciate the COBs. I wanted to love T5s but was never quite sold on them. Clearly there are those that rock the shit out of them.

With COBs, it's HID intensity in a form factor we'd expect to see on the Jetsons.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

yeah, im butthurt you cant grow top shelf after spending so much time and effort. just so butthurt.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> yeah, im butthurt you cant grow top shelf after spending so much time and effort. just so butthurt.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

nope,but you should have a snickers marcia, you know how you get when youre angry.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> nope,but you should have a snickers marcia, you know how you get when youre angry.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)




----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


>


----------



## a mongo frog (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> @chuck estevez hahahahaha I still can't get over you thought I took this pic outside. It's the best compliment you've ever given me thanks for your support Chuck on cob lighting remember you said I took this pic outside hahahahaha
> 
> View attachment 3674222


The bud looks really nice! But looks better then bud grown under this lighting or that lighting no. I think the same as HPS grown bud, ill totally agree with that. No HPS killing stuff going on though in terms of quality. Very nice herb though.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

lulz, @REALSTYLES, you seem mad bro. hid grown weed can help get you high enough to calm you down.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> The bud looks really nice! But looks better then bud grown under this lighting or that lighting no. I think the same as HPS grown bud, ill totally agree with that. No HPS killing stuff going on though in terms of quality. Very nice herb though.


how do you know did you smoke some of it? Do you know how much I yielded and off of how many watts? I'll let you know this I don't run any AC ever.



chuck estevez said:


> lulz, @REALSTYLES, you seem mad bro. hid grown weed can help get you high enough to calm you down.


Wow you're obsessed with me. I bet you wake up thinking of me.


----------



## a mongo frog (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> how do you know did you smoke some of it? Do you know how much I yielded and off of how many watts? I'll let you no this I don't run any AC ever.


How do i know? The same reason why you posted it is how i know. The same reason why all of us post our bud shots and some of us actually post with lab results is how i know, which of course you won't. I don't care to ask you your yield and your wattage. Thats your business not mine. Fact is that bud pic was nice but you didn't kill anything hps.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

yeah,but, do you know WHO he is? hahaha


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> How do i know? The same reason why you posted it is how i know. The same reason why all of us post our bud shots and some of us actually post with lab results is how i know, which of course you won't. I don't care to ask you your yield and your wattage. Thats your business not mine. Fact is that bud pic was nice but you didn't kill anything hps.


yes I did you can't get a lb from 400w hps please show me please.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

a lb of mids vs 12 ounces of dank. no brainer


----------



## testiclees (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> a lb of mids vs 12 ounces of dank. no brainer


bro you've got he voice of a mid(dle) school loser.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> a lb of mids vs 12 ounces of dank. no brainer


you still on my penis and the pic I showed of money can you count? That's $2500 just in $100 bills not $10,000 but I won't tell how much it was because now it's more lol


----------



## ttystikk (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> you still on my penis and the pic I showed of money can you count? That's $2500 just in $100 bills not $10,000 but I won't tell how much it was because now it's more lol


Do what I do; 

LAUGH ALL THE FUCKIN' WAY TO THE BANK! 

BWAHAHAHA! 

chuckie is sooooooooo pathetic, lol


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

^^^ we can obviously see who the cry baby douchbags are, like anyone cares you have $2500 lmfao

ttystikk, why don;t you hang your led from a bicycle rim, fuckin genius


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

funny how mad you girls get at me becuase your lights cant grow the same bud i can. cracks me up all the way to the bank.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> funny how mad you girls get at me becuase your lights cant grow the same bud i can. cracks me up all the way to the bank.


I'm not even mad I'm laughing my ass off smoking my weed and drinking Heineken and about too make some homemade pizza. I know how to make NY pizza dough and I'm also a chef hate away hater hate away and thank you for entertaining me

  
Chuck you are not on my level.


----------



## a mongo frog (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> yes I did you can't get a lb from 400w hps please show me please.


No i cant get a pound with a 400 watt hps. Im not sure why your competing so hard. Ill show anything you want to see. Im just not sure what you want to see. Your lights are great your a good gardener, but your quality is not killing a hps lamp. All the peole talking about cobs killing a hps lamp and having threads killing an hps lamp have showd nothing over the top. The people who are running cobs happy and humble in my opinion are showing buds better then my hps buds. But you won't see those guys in this thread, I guarentee you that, you'll never guess why.....


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> I'm not even mad I'm laughing my ass off smoking my weed and drinking Heineken and about too make some homemade pizza. I know how to make NY pizza dough and I'm also a chef hate away hater hate away and thank you for entertaining me
> 
> View attachment 3674431 View attachment 3674432 View attachment 3674433
> Chuck you are not on my level.


 well yeah, im on a much higher one, thats obvious


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> No i cant get a pound with a 400 watt hps. Im not sure why your competing so hard. Ill show anything you want to see. Im just not sure what you want to see. Your lights are great your a good gardener, but your quality is not killing a hps lamp. All the peole talking about cobs killing a hps lamp and having threads killing an hps lamp have showd nothing over the top. The people who are running cobs happy and humble in my opinion are showing buds better then my hps buds. But you won't see those guys in this thread, I guarentee you that, you'll never guess why.....


 they probably dont post pictures of their rent money either im guessing?


----------



## a mongo frog (May 5, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> they probably dont post pictures of their rent money either im guessing?


Why would he do that? I was simply blown away when i saw that. I was actually embarrassed. Not because of how much this or that but because he actually showed that kind of picture. Do you know if the pics got any likes? I don't want to look back i cringe every time i looked at that pic.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> No i cant get a pound with a 400 watt hps. Im not sure why your competing so hard. Ill show anything you want to see. Im just not sure what you want to see. Your lights are great your a good gardener, but your quality is not killing a hps lamp. All the peole talking about cobs killing a hps lamp and having threads killing an hps lamp have showd nothing over the top. The people who are running cobs happy and humble in my opinion are showing buds better then my hps buds. But you won't see those guys in this thread, I guarentee you that, you'll never guess why.....


I'm being nice to you because you got blasted today by someone on here because of your actions and the bud that I showed was the last of it and it wasn't my thin mint which is better any OG but don't take pics of dried buds because it's gone as soon as it's ready. Chuck was the only one saying he needed dry pics. This is a forum with people who have different opinions get use too it.


----------



## a mongo frog (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> I'm being nice to you because you got blasted today by someone on here because of your actions and the bud that I showed was the last of it and it wasn't my thin mint which is better any OG but don't take pics of dried buds because it's gone as soon as it's ready. Chuck was the only one saying he needed dry pics. This is a forum with people who have different opinions get use too it.


When did i get blasted?


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

more excuses,he is full of em


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> When did i get blasted?


It was something about a GED but can't remember where, can you?



chuck estevez said:


> more excuses,he is full of em


There is no excuses only results. I wish you could comprehend the tech of the cobs and have a grasp of knowledge about efficiency and the fact I don't use any AC at all so that's why I say cobs are better. You can't say shit until you have tried. That's Man Talk son.


----------



## Rrog (May 5, 2016)

I am digging the pizza ! Jesus!!


----------



## a mongo frog (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> It was something about a GED but can't remember where, can you?
> 
> 
> There is no excuses only results. I wish you could comprehend the tech of the cobs and have a grasp of knowledge about efficiency and the fact I don't use any AC at all so that's why I say cobs are better. You can't say shit until you have tried. That's Man Talk son.


Yes i remember. Think that was a couple days ago, but yea i was blasted i guess.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

Rrog said:


> I am digging the pizza ! Jesus!!


checkout my cheese enchiladas with homemade tortilla shells I love to cook lol


----------



## ttystikk (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> I'm not even mad I'm laughing my ass off smoking my weed and drinking Heineken and about too make some homemade pizza. I know how to make NY pizza dough and I'm also a chef hate away hater hate away and thank you for entertaining me
> 
> View attachment 3674431 View attachment 3674432 View attachment 3674433
> Chuck you are not on my level.


Hey man, wanna cater a party next Saturday?


----------



## CannaBruh (May 5, 2016)

Lemme hold that recipe for the pizza dough, we have been trying and trying to find one we like from scratch.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 5, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> It was something about a GED but can't remember where, can you?
> 
> 
> There is no excuses only results. I wish you could comprehend the tech of the cobs and have a grasp of knowledge about efficiency and the fact I don't use any AC at all so that's why I say cobs are better. You can't say shit until you have tried. That's Man Talk son.


Man talk,lmfao, from a guy who likes cooking. Listen martha stewart, i comprehend just fine. If you didn't run around claiming you grow better than DE, you wouldn't have people up our ass, YOU created the issues, I just point them out, you talk about hating, when all you do is hate on us for doing just that, pointing out the obvious, so go eat your enchiladas martha, cause it's so hard to roll up meat in a tortilla and pour sauce on it.


----------



## REALSTYLES (May 5, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> Lemme hold that recipe for the pizza dough, we have been trying and trying to find one we like from scratch.


here's one of them http://feelingfoodish.com/the-best-new-york-style-pizza-dough/ just google ny pizza dough and I'm trying the Semolina recipe as well


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2016)

I'm so hungry!


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2016)

When I was working on firing a traditional pizza at 700F on my Green Egg, I was using Caputo 00 flour. Very low protein.


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> yes I did you can't get a lb from 400w hps please show me please.


well I got 2 lbs with 2 400's 

that's a lb from a 400

not that it's a big deal LOL


----------



## rkymtnman (May 6, 2016)

Rrog said:


> When I was working on firing a traditional pizza at 700F on my Green Egg, I was using Caputo 00 flour. Very low protein.


the only flour to use for pizza. i love making clam pizza. baby clams, mozzarella, sauce. delicioso!


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2016)

Funny where these threads can lead. I love cooking also. @rkymtnman , that clam pizza sounds great.

You guys like a softer fresh Mozz or drier for melting?


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2016)

do you guys cook with a real oven, or a easy bake? you know you can't use a LED in your easy bake


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2016)




----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> do you guys cook with a real oven, or a easy bake? you know you can't use a LED in your easy bake


which would cook a better pizza ???

An easy bake with HPS ?
or
An easy bake with COB ?


----------



## ttystikk (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> which would cook a better pizza ???
> 
> An easy bake with HPS ?
> or
> An easy bake with COB ?


Halogen.


----------



## rkymtnman (May 6, 2016)

Rrog said:


> Funny where these threads can lead. I love cooking also. @rkymtnman , that clam pizza sounds great.
> 
> You guys like a softer fresh Mozz or drier for melting?


fresh buffalo mozz if you can get it.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> which would cook a better pizza ???
> 
> An easy bake with HPS ?
> or
> An easy bake with COB ?


i know which one I would be eating FIRST, the HPS one, it will probably be better all the way, as usual


----------



## rkymtnman (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> which would cook a better pizza ???
> 
> An easy bake with HPS ?
> or
> An easy bake with COB ?


how about cooking on a hps ballast or a COB heat sink? that's a better comparison.


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> how about cooking on a hps ballast or a COB heat sink? that's a better comparison.


I was merely joking, because I like how the thread got friendly with the pizza talk


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> fresh buffalo mozz if you can get it.


I get raw milk locally. After the tomatoes come in later this year, I want to make fresh Mozz and have a little party.


----------



## rkymtnman (May 6, 2016)

Rrog said:


> I get raw milk locally. After the tomatoes come in later this year, I want to make fresh Mozz and have a little party.


i'll bring a jug of Lambrusco!


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2016)

Never made Mozz. Made lots of Paneer. I'd for sure Invite many here if I could


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I was merely joking, because I like how the thread got friendly with the pizza talk


no one wants to argue over what will cook a better pizza


----------



## rkymtnman (May 6, 2016)

i have a solution for this battle:

we need to provide @chuck estevez and @REALSTYLES with 2 clones from same mother. let them grow them out under DE and COB and send them to a lab. highest THC% wins. 

thoughts?


----------



## ttystikk (May 6, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> fresh buffalo mozz if you can get it.


You and your gourmet ingredients... 

Make me jealous.


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2016)

My solution: The Ignore Button. Life's too short to dance with fools.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> i have a solution for this battle:
> 
> we need to provide @chuck estevez and @REALSTYLES with 2 clones from same mother. let them grow them out under DE and COB and send them to a lab. highest THC% wins.
> 
> thoughts?


OR, I will be happy to grow under a cob that can compete with my DE and I am willing to pay $1500 for it.


----------



## ttystikk (May 6, 2016)

rkymtnman said:


> how about cooking on a hps ballast or a COB heat sink? that's a better comparison.


Stir fry on a DE reflector, LMAO!


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2016)

Rrog said:


> My solution: The Ignore Button. Life's too short to dance with fools.


Gee, you turned into a giant douchebag just by purchasing an LED light, what a fuckin child you are. Sorry I don't drive fords crybaby


----------



## ttystikk (May 6, 2016)

Rrog said:


> My solution: The Ignore Button. Life's too short to dance with fools.


Word. Tell @Vnsmkr that it's my secret weapon.


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2016)

When LED guys hear the truth


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> OR, I will be happy to grow under a cob that can compete with my DE and I am willing to pay $1500 for it.


Linked you to one for $999  

you buy it for me and I'll give ya the harvest


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Linked you to one for $999
> 
> you buy it for me and I'll give ya the harvest


I missed the link, it isn't the one that is NEVER in stock is it? Beans for a LEd????


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> I missed the link, it isn't the one that is NEVER in stock is it? Beans for a LEd????


NM, found it


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> I missed the link, it isn't the one that is NEVER in stock is it? Beans for a LEd????


was in a PM we had recently ,,,,, think UV canon


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> I missed the link, it isn't the one that is NEVER in stock is it? Beans for a LEd????


Harvest, beans, either, both, I'm up for whatever 

cause I know for a fact I'd rock that light LOL


----------



## chuck estevez (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Harvest, beans, either, both, I'm up for whatever
> 
> cause I know for a fact I'd rock that light LOL


a little far away to send a harvest, but beans are a different story, Let's talk. 
I may need a little something in the deal though. If LED doesn't rock it, you have to smack TTYStiKk for me.


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> a little far away to send a harvest, but beans are a different story, Let's talk.
> I may need a little something in the deal though. If LED doesn't rock it, you have to smack TTYStiKk for me.


LOL you know I'll rock it Brother and gettin @ttystikk high is so much more fun


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2016)

Rocking my 55 gallon TLUD biochar retorts today. I have a shit ton of char. Inoculating with chicken shit this weekend, then grinding.

Fine tuning the variables such as ventilation and feed stock, then make an illustrated tutorial online for anyone. This is too good a product and too simple to make.


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

You can't use low gluten flour! (unless you're allergic to gluten) Pizza dough needs high gluten flour in order for it to grow and be healthy.


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Linked you to one for $999
> 
> you buy it for me and I'll give ya the harvest


Stop trying to be independent/original with this. If you want someone to buy LEDs for you (so you can experiment), buy what people suggest to the T rather than just sporadically buying some piece of garbage and drawing conclusions based on that. Consider that we actually know what we're doing and that you should listen to someone else for once.

Trust me, if what you buy isn't up to snuff, the experiment will be totally worthless.. (not to mention you'll have wasted a lot of someone's money)


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Stop trying to be independent/original with this. If you want someone to buy LEDs for you (so you can experiment), buy what people suggest to the T rather than just sporadically buying some piece of garbage and drawing conclusions based on that. Consider that we actually know what we're doing and that you should listen to someone else for once.
> 
> Trust me, if what you buy isn't up to snuff, the experiment will be totally worthless.. (not to mention you'll have wasted a lot of someone's money)


It's not a conventional grow light, it is from a totally different industry and I have already experimented with a smaller version. Church, Brother, I really do have a clue and I really do understand light. No conclusions are being drawn


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

This thread itself is a good example of one where the OP didn't listen to instructions when building his panel, and drew conclusions based on thinking it's an 800W lamp. I have no idea what other assumptions he's making because he won't tell us anything about the components he chose or show us pictures from the grow.

Yet somehow viewers of this thread have also drawn conclusions based on this 588W lamp "failing" to compete with a 1000W HPS with no pictures.


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> It's not a conventional grow light, it is from a totally different industry and I have already experimented with a smaller version. Church, Brother, I really do have a clue and I really do understand light. No conclusions are being drawn


No seriously, please run that lamp through the "led church" before buying it. You grow with T5 bro... You clearly don't know what you're doing when it comes to choosing lamps! You aren't too smart to stop for directions, trust me. (try following some other RIU users...)

Don't be stubborn. Show us what you want to buy.


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> No seriously, please run that lamp through the "led church" before buying it. You grow with T5 bro... You clearly don't know what you're doing when it comes to choosing lamps! You aren't too smart to stop for directions, trust me. (try following some other RIU users...)
> 
> Don't be stubborn. Show us what you want to buy.


My fav post of the day LMFAO


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

Just for shits and giggles.. COB's would actaully work pretty well in an EZ bake oven. I have crazy thoughts all the time about putting together a microwave out of cobs. (that's basically what they are).

If you put a cob panel on your floor for just 10-20 seconds, you'll have dark burn marks where the cobs irradiated the wood. Seriously, be careful with these things. It's hard to tell from pictures, but they're actually dangerously bright. Bright enough to instantly burn holes in your clothing.


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> My fav post of the day LMFAO


Seriously, get your head out of your ass and tell people what you plan on buying. You're asking people to send you 1000 dollars so you can pull a mystery light out of a grab bag just to show us what we already know. (that HPS is cheaper and produces more light)

Almost everyone who buys LED's without asking first ends up getting garbage they regret buying. This is why LED's have such a terrible reputation in the first place, and you're just perpetuating that needlessly. Fools go out and buy LEDs without knowing what they're buying and end up buying something that can't even stand up to HPS. Why should I expect you to do otherwise, especially with what you're growing with now...

Quit wasting your time and money and go buy an HPS lamp.


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Just for shits and giggles.. COB's would actaully work pretty well in an EZ bake oven. I have crazy thoughts all the time about putting together a microwave out of cobs. (that's basically what they are).
> 
> If you put a cob panel on your floor for just 10-20 seconds, you'll have dark burn marks where the cobs irradiated the wood. Seriously, be careful with these things. It's hard to tell from pictures, but they're actually dangerously bright. Bright enough to instantly burn ties.


saw that on a friends work bench


----------



## nevergoodenuf (May 6, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> OR, I will be happy to grow under a cob that can compete with my DE and I am willing to pay $1500 for it.


If you are in the SF Bay area, I will build you a 4 COB 1000 watt light fixture. PM me if you are really interested.


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Seriously, get your head out of your ass and tell people what you plan on buying. You're asking people to send you 1000 dollars so you can pull a mystery light out of a grab bag just to show us what we already know. (that HPS is likely cheaper and produces more light)
> 
> Almost everyone who buys LED's without asking first ends up getting garbage they regret buying. This is why LED's have such a terrible reputation in the first place, and you're just perpetuating that needlessly. Fools go out and buy LEDs without knowing what they're buying and end up buying something that can't even stand up to HPS. Why should I expect you to do otherwise, especially with what you're growing with now...
> 
> Quit wasting your time and money and go buy an HPS lamp.


Church, first off I've been an electronics tech for over 40 years, I go back to tube TV's. I regularly do component level repairs on puter motherboards. I could not only design lights, I could design the power supplies you guys use to fire em. You really have no idea who I am my mentors were A) the guy that designed the first all solid state TV and B) the guy that designed the guidance system for the F-14.

And no not gonna reveal the secret light until I have a grow under it  

I promise it will not give LED a bad name


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Church, first off I've been an electronics tech for over 40 years, I go back to tube TV's. I regularly do component level repairs on puter motherboards. I could not only design lights, I could design the power supplies you guys use to fire em. You really have no idea who I am my mentors were A) the guy that designed the first all solid state TV and B) the guy that designed the guidance system for the F-14.
> 
> And no not gonna reveal the secret light until I have a grow under it
> 
> I promise it will not give LED a bad name


That is a lot of experience as a tech and I respect technicians (I've been one myself), but at the same time, technicians usually don't do much in terms of design. They usually just wire things together and screw fasteners into holes. A technician is not who you'd hire to design specifications (not that there aren't technicians that could do it, but technicians generally don't do any design).

All that being said, I don't really care what your background is if you're not using (actively avoiding) the "bibled church numbers". How efficient is this lamp you're planning on using? What is the spectral distribution? What kind of current driver to you plan on using? (we all tend to use the same one for a reason btw.. it's 94% efficient with active power factor correction and the cheapest anyone can find)

Really, if you wanted to put your technicians skills to use, it would be best to copy someone else's design _first_.


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I promise it will not give LED a bad name


Don't be fooled by sativied. I don't really care about LEDs... I care about the truth in general. If you give LED's a bad name because you failed to follow instructions and picked bad/cheap components, you've helped everyone stray from the truth. If you do what we tell you and get bad results, so be it. (of course you'd a bit late to the party... At this point if you got poor results on a setup everyone else is getting great results, it would imply there's something wrong with your technique)

Bottom line is that if someone like you were to follow our instructions, you would likely increase your yield significantly over T5 so long as you don't purposefully kill your plants.


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> That is a lot of experience as a tech and I respect technicians (I've been one myself), but at the same time, technicians don't do much in terms of design. They usually just wire things together and screw fasteners into holes. A technician is not who you'd hire to design specifications (not that there aren't technicians that could do it, but technicians generally don't do any design).
> 
> All that being said, I don't really care what your background is if you're not using (actively avoiding) the "bibled church numbers". How efficient is this lamp you're planning on using? What is the spectral distribution? What kind of current driver to you plan on using? (we all tend to use the same one for a reason btw.. it's 94% efficient with active power factor correction and the cheapest anyone can find)
> 
> Really, if you wanted to put your technicians skills to use, it would be best to copy someone else's design _first_.


There are 2 things you COB guys have yet to figure out, once you do, COB lighting will easily take over, well once the price points drop. And honestly though I could design one, I have no such desire to do so. I've been playing with lights and spectrum's for years now, I doubt your bibled numbers would change my mind on things ?


----------



## andy s (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> well I got 2 lbs with 2 400's
> 
> that's a lb from a 400
> 
> not that it's a big deal LOL


Lol aside from all This tell me how haha I have to go low budget and have a 600w and a 400w but just wanna do one under the 400 or two and get a decent yield. I know genetics have a lot to do with it so I have one feminized seed of blue dream x big bud but I can't really just go out and buy good strains.


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Don't be fooled by sativied. I don't really care about LEDs... I care about the truth in general. If you give LED's a bad name because you failed to follow instructions and picked bad/cheap components, you've helped everyone stray from the truth. If you do what we tell you and get bad results, so be it. (of course you'd a bit late to the party... At this point if you got poor results on a setup everyone else is getting great results, it would imply there's something wrong with your technique)
> 
> Bottom line is that if someone like you were to follow our instructions, you would likely increase your yield significantly over T5 so long as you don't purposefully kill your plants.


You simply keep forgetting I do not give a rats damn about yield LOL


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

andy s said:


> Lol aside from all This tell me how haha I have to go low budget and have a 600w and a 400w but just wanna do one under the 400 or two and get a decent yield. I know genetics have a lot to do with it so I have one feminized seed of blue dream x big bud but I can't really just go out and buy good strains.


here is the journal

https://www.rollitup.org/t/balls-to-the-wall-grow-riddleme-gets-serious.347914/

enjoy


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> You simply keep forgetting I do not give a rats damn about yield LOL


Yield and quality go hand in hand (given the pheno is held constant).

They are not mutually exclusive by any means.


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> There are 2 things you COB guys have yet to figure out, once you do, COB lighting will easily take over, well once the price points drop. And honestly though I could design one, I have no such desire to do so. I've been playing with lights and spectrum's for years now, I doubt your bibled numbers would change my mind on things ?


"You cob guys"? I'm sorry but you've gotta talk to people individually before you expect them to answer. I am not "you COB guys", I'm churchhaze. You wouldn't believe it, but LED growers are individuals, not "You guys".


----------



## andy s (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> here is the journal
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/t/balls-to-the-wall-grow-riddleme-gets-serious.347914/
> 
> enjoy


Nice thank you


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

Seriously, I just don't get it.. You've got this guy flowering with T5, yet the target is "led growers". You've got one guy making an excuse about why his yields are so low while everyone else seems to be knocking it out of the park.

Why is this guy not taking EVERYONE ELSE'S advice? HPS growers, direct your aggression toward none other than RM3. He's the one who's misleading noobs into getting crap.

I"m here telling almost everyone to get HPS yet I get shit for growing with LED and liking it.


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Yield and quality go hand in hand (given the pheno is held constant).
> 
> They are not mutually exclusive by any means.


You could not be more wrong, but I'm not trying to argue


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> "You cob guys"? I'm sorry but you've gotta talk to people individually before you expect them to answer. I am not "you COB guys", I'm churchhaze. You wouldn't believe it, but LED growers are individuals, not "You guys".


Did not mean it as a slur, sorry you took it that way


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> You could not be more wrong, but I'm not trying to argue


I'm totally right, and you ARE trying to argue... very much so. No offense but "I don't grow for yield" is a terrible excuse for low yields. There is help. Not all is lost...

*HPS 4 U*


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Did not mean it as a slur, sorry you took it that way


It will always be insulting when you lump everyone into one category. I'd expect this from someone with your personality though (following nobody). It means you think everyone else is worthless and you're the golden child. (delusion)


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Seriously, I just don't get it.. You've got this guy flowering with T5, yet the target is "led growers". You've got one guy making an excuse about why his yields are so low while everyone else seems to be knocking it out of the park.
> 
> Why is this guy not taking EVERYONE ELSE'S advice? HPS growers, direct your aggression toward none other than RM3. He's the one who's misleading noobs into getting crap.
> 
> I"m here telling almost everyone to get HPS yet I get shit for growing with LED and liking it.


Not makin excuses, not askin for help or advice, not forcin anyone to follow me (yet 100's do) could care less about yield, you simply don't get it. But to be fair you're not alone, I have this convo a lot lol


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## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

If you try growing with LED's without taking any input from the outside world, you'll have enough leeway to really screw things up. (particularly in what you buy). If you grab an HPS, the chance of that is decreased significantly.

You talk about how the "bibled numbers" wouldn't help sway you. The most important number is *efficiency*. (power out / power in). The "perfect spectrum" will do very little to improve yields. Increasing efficiency will improve yields every time.

Given SPD and input power remain constant, an increase in efficiency translates to greater yields.

If you don't care about efficiency, you are wasting electricity and *doing a disservice to the environment.*


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> I'm totally right, and you ARE trying to argue... very much so. No offense but "I don't grow for yield" is a terrible excuse for low yields. There is help. Not all is lost...
> 
> *HPS 4 U*


back to you never answered my question

Does your high yielding bud,

only require one hit to get ya there? (potency)
Last for over 4 (or more) hours? (legs)
Next hit takes you higher than the last? (ceiling) 

Answer that question honestly then we can talk, because my low yielding T5 buds all do this


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> back to you never answered my question
> 
> Does your high yielding bud,
> 
> ...


I honestly don't know how to interpret your question. I grow pure power plant right now. That's all I can really say. It's weed. *I smoke weed and get high. *I smoke a one hit bowl about every hour out of habit. The quality depends mostly on whether I remembered to change the reservoirs frequently enough. When I don't, the leaves start turning yellow/brown and the buds quality goes down.


----------



## rkymtnman (May 6, 2016)

quality over quantity any day of the week for me. 

only thing i care about yield-wise is that i don't run out before my next harvest.


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## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

You don't have "hundreds" of followers, you have "hundred" followers. Not plural. The fact that you're not following anyone yet they're all following you suggests you're somewhat of an arrogant sociopath.


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> I honestly don't know how to interpret your question. I grow pure power plant right now. That's all I can really say. It's weed. *I smoke weed and get high. *I smoke a one hit bowl about every hour out of habit. The quality depends mostly on whether I remembered to change the reservoirs frequently enough. When I don't, the leaves start turning yellow/brown and the buds quality goes down.


Most pot smokers I know have a place they like to go to, a favorite high so to speak. Most will continue smoking till they get to that place, that high. So my question translates to how many hits do you have to take to get to "your" favorite place ? Once there how long does it last ? If you take more hits do they take you higher or simply make the same high last longer ?


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

Just because RM3 is framing this as a quality vs quantity issue doesn't mean it actually is one.

If you want high quality, use good genetics and keep your plants healthy. That will also lead to higher yields.

Don't feel discouraged by this guy. Just because you yield twice as much as him doesn't mean his stuff is twice as good (or even close).

*His stuff is just run of the mill 25% weed like everyone elses. That's very good, but there is no trade off. You could pull the same quality (and better) with HPS AND YIELD WAY MORE.*


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> You don't have "hundreds" of followers, you have "hundred" followers. Not plural. The fact that you're not following anyone yet they're all following you suggests you're somewhat of an arrogant sociopath.


That is here at this site, I am on several sites, not to mention my site that has over 400 members, my state of 100's is correct

and yeppers was diagnosed as a sociopath when I was in prison, but not tryin to be arrogant


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## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Most pot smokers I know have a place they like to go to, a favorite high so to speak. Most will continue smoking till they get to that place, that high. So my question translates to how many hits do you have to take to get to "your" favorite place ? Once there how long does it last ? If you take more hits do they take you higher or simply make the same high last longer ?


One. Always one. Gone are the days of mids. *All weed is great now.*


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Just because RM3 is framing this as a quality vs quantity issue doesn't mean it actually is one.
> 
> If you want high quality, use good genetics and keep your plants healthy. That will also lead to higher yields.
> 
> ...


THC % means very little in my world LOL


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> One. Always one. Gone are the days of mids. *All weed is great now.*


Cool, good for you one hit gets ya there now how long does last before ya gotta take another ?


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> THC % means very little in my world LOL


Well that's funny because THC means a lot to most growers here. It's one of the only ways to quantify whether you're telling the truth or whether you're so fucking full of shit.


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Cool, good for you one hit gets ya there now how long does last before ya gotta take another ?


It's pure power plant. (not exactly some mystery)


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Well that's funny because THC means a lot to most growers here. It's one of the only ways to quantify whether you're telling the truth or whether you're so fucking full of shit.


No the better way is to actually meet growers from the forums and smoke buds together so they can then get back on the forums and tell everyone how fucking full of shit I am ,,,,

oh wait they never do, they all post how fucking high they got, how fucking long it lasted how fucking little we actually smoked , and it's not just one grower it's many LOL


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> It's pure power plant. (not exactly some mystery)


I have no idea what that means ?


----------



## rkymtnman (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> Just because RM3 is framing this as a quality vs quantity issue doesn't mean it actually is one.
> 
> If you want high quality, use good genetics and keep your plants healthy. That will also lead to higher yields.
> 
> ...


i prefer the LEC for quality and then quantity. the natural sunlight spectrum along with the uv output (unlike hps which has almost 0 uv) is what i like about the LEC.

it's really personal choice in the end. if i'm trying to sell RM3 a toyota and he's happy with his honda, he's not care about what i say.


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I have no idea what that means ?


It's marijuana.


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> It's marijuana.


Soo it's a strain that is so bad ass I should know about it ? well I never heard of it, but there are lots of strains I never heard of and a lot I don't ever care to grow but I'm happy you found what works for ya ,,,,,,, seriously


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Soo it's a strain that is so bad ass I should know about it ? well I never heard of it, but there are lots of strains I never heard of and a lot I don't ever care to grow but I'm happy you found what works for ya ,,,,,,, seriously


No, it's just some random inexpensive strain from Nivana. I like it. I used to grow it back in the day (mainstay) and decided recently to see if it's still good. I still like it! All strains these days will get you blazed, even the ones from the 90s.


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> No, it's just some random inexpensive strain from Nivana. I like it. I used to grow it back in the day (mainstay) and decided recently to see if it's still good. I still like it! All strains these days will get you blazed, even the ones from the 90s.


Nothin current worked for me, which was why I bred my own and now I smoke it every night.


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> Nothin current worked for me, which was why I bred my own and now I smoke it every night.


All the power to you. I'm not a breeder. I just grow weed and then smoke it. I believe in keeping the breeding to people like you.... unless all you care about is genetic deformities like whorling and that other garbage. (traits nobody cares about)

I believe a grower should pick from genetics from a full fledged breeder and not worry about breeding. (most people should not breed, with humans or plants)


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> All the power to you. I'm not a breeder. I just grow weed and then smoke it. I believe in keeping the breeding to people like you.... unless all you care about is genetic deformities like whorling and that other garbage. (traits nobody cares about)
> 
> I believe a grower should pick from genetics from a full fledged breeder and not worry about breeding himself. (most people should not breed, with humans or plants)


I breed for a rare trait and then openly and freely share them so that the trait won't lost 

how bout you take a few minutes and read the free chapter from my book ,,,,
http://growhappyplants.com/look.html


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I breed for a rare trait and then openly and freely share them so that the trait won't lost
> 
> how bout you take a few minutes and read the free chapter from my book ,,,,
> http://growhappyplants.com/look.html


I'm assuming you're talking about the trait where trichromes degrade before the bud is ripe?


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> I'm assuming you're talking about the trait where trichromes degrade before the bud is ripe?


no, it would be early translucent amber, they go red when ripe and black when degrading


----------



## CannaBruh (May 6, 2016)

RM3, if your nugs are keeping people faded for ~4hrs, then you need to be on my team cause I'm dabbin' from about 7am til I fall out, sometimes 2am sometimes I don't sleep. Most people could not operate at the level of energy at which I do... even though I stay high as shit.

Also, I know many many many techs that run circles around EE @ the bench. Half the time I won't waste the effort asking an engineer for design advice as they'll have me down some mathematical model and higher level equations that when it's all said and done don't even represent the real world very well. I'd love to be able to think like some of the EEs I look up to, but at the same time there's a lot to be said about a tech that knows his/her shit, usually they are holding the EE's hand while the EE figures out why their design isn't working..... not a knock at anyone but I picked up on some comments that implied that techs don't know how to design which is some bullshit. Some graduate universities teach microcontrollers at a software level, you'll need to find you a tech to implement the hardware my friend.


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> RM3, if your nugs are keeping people faded for ~4hrs, then you need to be on my team cause I'm dabbin' from about 7am til I fall out, sometimes 2am sometimes I don't sleep. Most people could not operate at the level of energy at which I do... even though I stay high as shit.
> 
> Also, I know many many many techs that run circles around EE @ the bench. Half the time I won't waste the effort asking an engineer for design advice as they'll have me down some mathematical model and higher level equations that when it's all said and done don't even represent the real world very well. I'd love to be able to think like some of the EEs I look up to, but at the same time there's a lot to be said about a tech that knows his/her shit, usually they are holding the EE's hand while the EE figures out why their design isn't working..... not a knock at anyone but I picked up on some comments that implied that techs don't know how to design which is some bullshit. Some graduate universities teach microcontrollers at a software level, you'll need to find you a tech to implement the hardware my friend.


My gear is all uplifting & energetic, and I'm an old hippie that doesn't dab lol not knockin it, just not my thing. though there were dabs at our latest gathering 

and you are soooooo right bout the EE crew


----------



## CannaBruh (May 6, 2016)

heh, only reason I'm dabbing is because I washed some guy's trim for some bubble to get by.... that stuff will go a long way. If I had the equivalent in THC % worth of nugs, it might last a few days.

I had a Durban Poison keeper from a few packs of Mr Nice that was some of the most energetic herb I'd had, it was circa 2008 maybe. Very euphoric, happy, uplifting, kinda racy but did not induce anxiety in me, which a lot of varieties can.

Anyhoo, the only reason I'm on these boards is one day I had a wild hair to check the status and progress on LEDs. When I left the hobby some years back they were kind of a joke, over priced, never produced. Guys running perpetual CFL grows were killing the LEDs at that time. 

I ran into Greengenes and Realstyles youtubes and they caught my attention. 

Crunched some numbers, put a wet finger to the wind, and yea I think we're about there with the LEDs.

I'll be out in Colorado sometime in June/July, would love to taste some wares RM3.


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> I'll be out in Colorado sometime in June/July, would love to taste some wares RM3.


just let me know


----------



## churchhaze (May 6, 2016)

So now we're on to engineer bashing? I have an EE degree and have worked as a technician and as a software developer. I'm not bashing all technicians, but usually people go into tech over engineering because they don't enjoy math. In my short experience as a technician, I can tell you that my only technician coworker that could really think outside the box also had an EE degree. Sure, there are fakes in every profession, but technicians ultimately end up working as lackies for EE's (holding their hands), hence the obvious resentment coming from technicians.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 6, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Word. Tell @Vnsmkr that it's my secret weapon.


Then I wouldnt see anything on those threads though @ttystikk ...Block every person assessed as a moron and there would be none left on those forums....Better to just avoid those threads all together


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 6, 2016)

Rrog said:


> Never made Mozz. Made lots of Paneer. I'd for sure Invite many here if I could


Paneer is awesome!!!


----------



## CannaBruh (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> So now we're on to engineer bashing? I have an EE degree and have worked as a technician and as a software developer. I'm not bashing all technicians, but usually people go into tech over engineering because they don't enjoy math. In my short experience as a technician, I can tell you that my only technician coworker that could really think outside the box also had an EE degree. Sure, there are fakes in every profession, but technicians ultimately end up working as lackies for EE's (holding their hands), hence the obvious resentment coming from technicians.



Thinking outside the box, doing calculus, and quadrilateral equations (like some FET work I was just designing...) I like to play in the real world where models and formulas don't always work as well as we might want to think. Save all that for the theoretical physicists. Not bashing EEs, I learn from em... just saying when it comes down to it, it's not as simple as EE can design, techs cannot... there are many programming engineers that could not design a psu or implement the embedded solution in the hardware world without an off the shelf device. Much respect to you for getting your EE, I know that's some serious work, not playing it down. Don't sell us lowly techs short. How's your SMD rework skills


----------



## RM3 (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> So now we're on to engineer bashing? I have an EE degree and have worked as a technician and as a software developer. I'm not bashing all technicians, but usually people go into tech over engineering because they don't enjoy math. In my short experience as a technician, I can tell you that my only technician coworker that could really think outside the box also had an EE degree. Sure, there are fakes in every profession, but technicians ultimately end up working as lackies for EE's (holding their hands), hence the obvious resentment coming from technicians.


wasn't bashing, I've met good ones and bad ones just like any other category ya wanna put folks in and I have worked on equipment that made me cuss the guy that designed it many times, is what it is


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Paneer is awesome!!!


I use a whole raw milk and add a bit of whole cream, then hit it with acid before it boils for a great texture and consistency.


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 6, 2016)

Rrog said:


> I use a whole raw milk and add a bit of whole cream, then hit it with acid before it boils for a great texture and consistency.


Never tried to make it myself, usually keep one of the local Indian guys busy with that. Maybe I'll give it a go though


----------



## Rrog (May 6, 2016)

Vnsmkr said:


> Never tried to make it myself, usually keep one of the local Indian guys busy with that. Maybe I'll give it a go though


I love cooking, like others here, and I like to be picky about the ingredients. So I like to make it. Good with spinach (Palak Paneer)


----------



## Vnsmkr (May 6, 2016)

Rrog said:


> I love cooking, like others here, and I like to be picky about the ingredients. So I like to make it. Good with spinach (Palak Paneer)


Man its like 330 AM and you are making my mouth water. I love Palak Paneer!!!! Yep I like to cook too and ingredients definitely have a bearing


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## Rrog (May 6, 2016)

It's really all about the peppers and the masala. We can't get the good peppers here, as they're sprayed with bad-bad.


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## Vnsmkr (May 6, 2016)

Rrog said:


> It's really all about the peppers and the masala. We can't get the good peppers here, as they're sprayed with bad-bad.


Grow your own? About to plant another round of chilis (7 varieties), hmmm tomorrow, better day as far as moon goes


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## Rrog (May 6, 2016)

Jwala peppers are going in my raised beds this year. Really great soil.

7 varieties! Wow


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## Vnsmkr (May 6, 2016)

Rrog said:


> Jwala peppers are going in my raised beds this year. Really great soil.
> 
> 7 varieties! Wow


Sorry, It was 6: padron, lemon drop, thai birds eye, maui purple, purple jalapeno, red bhut jolokia


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## Rrog (May 6, 2016)

sounds fantastic. Good for you.


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## Vnsmkr (May 6, 2016)

Rrog said:


> sounds fantastic. Good for you.


Thanks. Should keep me in chilis for a minute. Transplanted all the girls up yesterday so all good here


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## Sativied (May 6, 2016)

churchhaze said:


> All the power to you. I'm not a breeder. I just grow weed and then smoke it. I *believe* in keeping the breeding to people like you.... unless all you care about is genetic deformities like whorling and that other garbage. (traits nobody cares about) [*please Satvied please give me some attention and respond to my sig]*
> 
> I *believe* a grower should pick from genetics from a full fledged breeder and not worry about breeding. (most people should not breed, with humans or plants)


Let me give you a tip: when it's so over the top pathetic and butthurt fueled it misses the goal. I'm not led by what others pretend to know about what nobody cares about. I'm only interested in facts, in what is true, not what others wish and "believe", church.

*"*_Intellect refers to the ability of the mind to come to correct conclusions about what is true or real... the capacity for understanding, thinking, and reasoning, as distinct from feeling or wishing_"



churchhaze said:


> I have an EE degree and have worked as a technician and as a software developer.


Always entertaining to see you boost a degree but so clearly lack the intellect you think that degree implies. I suspect your crack abuse history plays a role here. The most valuable thing you can get from an education in the 21st century is a mindset, one that involves a high level of intellect and intellectual honest so you can continue to learn on your own and _be_ an engineer. You should have gone for something more hands on... like LED streetlight and billboard maintenance. 

Software developer... yet fails at simple if then else logic... oh you must fucking hate booleans


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## CannaBruh (May 6, 2016)

Boolean's falls where it isn't always the best solution.


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## ttystikk (May 6, 2016)

Interesting last few pages. A few random thoughts;

HPS is for growing greens. If you want resin, you need blue and UV is all the better. And don't forget the AC! 

I've met so damned many engineers who couldn't design their way out of a paper bag with both hands and a blowtorch that I've long since gotten into the habit of checking their work. I learn plenty and I've realized that one does not need an engineering degree to design great stuff; often, it just takes a lil common sense and creativity.

I haven't met very many great engineers, and I know why; motherfuckers are busy as shit because they're in demand! Same as with any other profession, it turns out.

So I call myself an 'applications specialist'. What I do is part design, part prototyping- and the rest amounts to more or less elegantly testing to failure, lol

After all, any asshole can go the speed limit; you only learn how to go faster by stomping the gas and hanging on for dear life!


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## REALSTYLES (May 6, 2016)

Sativied said:


> Let me give you a tip: when it's so over the top pathetic and butthurt fueled it misses the goal. I'm not led by what others pretend to know about what nobody cares about. I'm only interested in facts, in what is true, not what others wish and "believe", church.
> 
> *"*_Intellect refers to the ability of the mind to come to correct conclusions about what is true or real... the capacity for understanding, thinking, and reasoning, as distinct from feeling or wishing_"
> 
> ...


YOU ARE SO FULL OF SHIT. Do you even read what you post Swiss Miss


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## Budley Doright (May 7, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Interesting last few pages. A few random thoughts;
> 
> HPS is for growing greens. If you want resin, you need blue and UV is all the better. And don't forget the AC!
> 
> ...


Not getting into the Peng versus tech thing, that's right up there with defoliation . But I gotta ask try, is rm's pot as good as he says? Honestly are you stoned for 4 hours after one pull? I just can't see it but if true that gene pool of a plant would, I assume be worth a fair bit of money ........ More than a book even .


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## CannaBruh (May 7, 2016)

It would be worth a lot more "value" helping humans than whored off for green paper.


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## Budley Doright (May 7, 2016)

CannaBruh said:


> It would be worth a lot more "value" helping humans than whored off for green paper.


Lol yes yes your right. Can't argue with that now can I . But the question remains does RM's pot get you high for 4 hours after one pull, if it can do that and a few of his guest confirm this then I'll never have bad thoughts about RM again lol.


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## Budley Doright (May 7, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Lol yes yes your right. Can't argue with that now can I . But the question remains does RM's pot get you high for 4 hours after one pull, if it can do that and a few of his guest confirm this then I'll never have bad thoughts about RM again lol.


In fact he will be close to reaching god like status .


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## Budley Doright (May 7, 2016)

Once in my life have I been high like that. Tie stick, 1983, Campbell River BC, fucking awsome pot. To bad I was with my ex father in law the German General lol.


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## RM3 (May 7, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Once in my life have I been high like that. Tie stick, 1983, Campbell River BC, fucking awsome pot. To bad I was with my ex father in law the German General lol.


Workin on a thai stick pheno plant as you type


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## ttystikk (May 7, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Not getting into the Peng versus tech thing, that's right up there with defoliation . But I gotta ask try, is rm's pot as good as he says? Honestly are you stoned for 4 hours after one pull? I just can't see it but if true that gene pool of a plant would, I assume be worth a fair bit of money ........ More than a book even .


It's tasty, it's smooth, it's got good punch- but I've never taken "just one" hit at his house, and after half a dozen joints go around I'm not gonna be the best judge, lol


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## Budley Doright (May 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> It's tasty, it's smooth, it's got good punch- but I've never taken "just one" hit at his house, and after half a dozen joints go around I'm not gonna be the best judge, lol


Thanks tty! RM does grow some pretty shit but to say one hit will get you high for 4 hours is a pretty lofty statement . I'm sure it's good though just not "that" good lol.


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## RM3 (May 8, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Thanks tty! RM does grow some pretty shit but to say one hit will get you high for 4 hours is a pretty lofty statement . I'm sure it's good though just not "that" good lol.


Come smoke a bowl


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## ttystikk (May 8, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Thanks tty! RM does grow some pretty shit but to say one hit will get you high for 4 hours is a pretty lofty statement . I'm sure it's good though just not "that" good lol.


I didn't say it wasn't that good, just that I've never had only one hit at his house. He likes putting me in a weed coma too much, lol


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## RM3 (May 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I didn't say it wasn't that good, just that I've never had only one hit at his house. He likes putting me in a weed coma too much, lol


weed coma's are fun 

You could ask miss J for a smoke report? She had a J of Pearl to herself and put it down at bout half way in ( she arrived late and I gave the J to catch up to us)


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## Budley Doright (May 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I didn't say it wasn't that good, just that I've never had only one hit at his house. He likes putting me in a weed coma too much, lol


Well no you didn't lol. But if it's a one hit 4 hour stone, seems to me it would be one of the best strains, if not the best in the world. Really it's a mute point, and way off topic, still a pretty lofty proclamation .


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## Budley Doright (May 8, 2016)

RM3 said:


> weed coma's are fun
> 
> You could ask miss J for a smoke report? She had a J of Pearl to herself and put it down at bout half way in ( she arrived late and I gave the J to catch up to us)


Well I keep saying you need to market that shit, buy a warehouse and gets to breeding  you'll be famous .


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## Budley Doright (May 8, 2016)

Also RM yield is important, even if it's not a prime concern, it should be a concern. If possible to increase yield and keep the same potency and bag appeal, then you've takin the next step IMO. Yield is important mostly for economics and environmental issues. You should not be satisfied with just one aspect of the strain if you are a true breeder, again IMO. Now if you have takin it to its fullest re yield and potency then great. Who knows, maybe with LED you may have the best of both worlds.


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## RM3 (May 8, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Well I keep saying you need to market that shit, buy a warehouse and gets to breeding  you'll be famous .


Don't wanna be famous, but I would like to be a secret breeder for a disp someday


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## RM3 (May 8, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Also RM yield is important, even if it's not a prime concern, it should be a concern. If possible to increase yield and keep the same potency and bag appeal, then you've takin the next step IMO. Yield is important mostly for economics and environmental issues. You should not be satisfied with just one aspect of the strain if you are a true breeder, again IMO. Now if you have takin it to its fullest re yield and potency then great. Who knows, maybe with LED you may have the best of both worlds.


my gear yields great, I simply don't grow for yield because I'm mostly breeding, no sense in weighing seeds


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## Budley Doright (May 8, 2016)

RM3 said:


> my gear yields great, I simply don't grow for yield because I'm mostly breeding, no sense in weighing seeds


Well yes true that, but you keep saying yields are not important and I'm just saying they are lol. And don't all sociopaths want to be famous .


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## RM3 (May 8, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Well yes true that, but you keep saying yields are not important and I'm just saying they are lol. And don't all sociopaths want to be famous .


I have already made history twice and my face has been on TV (all major networks at the time) so I have no need of fame to fill my sociopathic desires LOL 

The whole yield thing is a commercial mindset, once you let go of it and set your mind on something else like more potency, or better smells, flavors you soon realize that yield should be a secondary consideration.

Been sayin for years, I'll always choose an ounce of one hitter weed over a pound of ten hitter weed, for me it's a no brainer


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## ttystikk (May 8, 2016)

RM3 said:


> weed coma's are fun
> 
> You could ask miss J for a smoke report? She had a J of Pearl to herself and put it down at bout half way in ( she arrived late and I gave the J to catch up to us)


She enjoyed the joint but she said it didn't blow her away. 

She said she prefers my Jillybean if given a choice. 

I will say neither of us was looking for another hit for the rest of the evening...

I'm gonna call it a biased opinion, lol


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## Budley Doright (May 8, 2016)

RM3 said:


> my gear yields great, I simply don't grow for yield because I'm mostly breeding, no sense in weighing seeds


Isn't part of breeding getting the most out of a strain before moving on to the next one or running it till you have achieved the maximum that strain has to offer? Fuck I'm just trying to get to the point of getting the most out of a strain let alone breeding one . You seem to have more strains than Barney's lol.


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## RM3 (May 8, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Isn't part of breeding getting the most out of a strain before moving on to the next one or running it till you have achieved the maximum that strain has to offer? Fuck I'm just trying to get to the point of getting the most out of a strain let alone breeding one . You seem to have more strains than Barney's lol.


I like breeding, so it's what I do. The more I create, the more I have to work with


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## Budley Doright (May 8, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I have already made history twice and my face has been on TV (all major networks at the time) so I have no need of fame to fill my sociopathic desires LOL
> 
> The whole yield thing is a commercial mindset, once you let go of it and set your mind on something else like more potency, or better smells, flavors you soon realize that yield should be a secondary consideration.
> 
> Been sayin for years, I'll always choose an ounce of one hitter weed over a pound of ten hitter weed, for me it's a no brainer


I never said yield was primary, what I said was it is part of the equation and not something that shouldn't be cared about. I do agree that if it isn't good it's a waste of time and energy, that's what really pisses me off with all the mutts out there, pass them selves off as the next best thing and yes to a noob they are I guess, but me not so much , perhaps I smoke to much .


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## Budley Doright (May 8, 2016)

RM3 said:


> I like breeding, so it's what I do. The more I create, the more I have to work with


Wish I had the time and passion!


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## Budley Doright (May 8, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Wish I had the time and passion!


Also wish I lived in a legal local .


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## RM3 (May 8, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I never said yield was primary, what I said was it is part of the equation and not something that shouldn't be cared about. I do agree that if it isn't good it's a waste of time and energy, that's what really pisses me off with all the mutts out there, pass them selves off as the next best thing and yes to a noob they are I guess, but me not so much , perhaps I smoke to much .


well here is a pic of my CTF strain being grown by another grower, this is one plant at day 49, I'm pretty sure my gear yields just fine 
.


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## ttystikk (May 8, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Also RM yield is important, even if it's not a prime concern, it should be a concern. If possible to increase yield and keep the same potency and bag appeal, then you've takin the next step IMO. Yield is important mostly for economics and environmental issues. You should not be satisfied with just one aspect of the strain if you are a true breeder, again IMO. Now if you have takin it to its fullest re yield and potency then great. Who knows, maybe with LED you may have the best of both worlds.


I work at achieving the best balance between yield and strength possible. Unlike @RM3 I am firmly of the opinion that the two goals are NOT mutually exclusive. Much can be done to improve both aspects without doing things that promote one goal at the expense of the other. 

I'm running 860W CDM Allstart lamps because they produce more resin and better flavors. I get lots of people telling me that my produce is better than a dispensary's top shelf, often telling me that mine has achieved "best ever!" status for them. 

I also think there are a lot of factors involved, not all of which are objective and quantifiable. Many are based on personal preference and of course on the biology of the individual involved. 

Early results from my COB LED rack seem to indicate that it's quite capable of producing very high quality cannabis; dense, oily, pungent and powerful!


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## RM3 (May 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I work at achieving the best balance between yield and strength possible. Unlike @RM3 I am firmly of the opinion that the two goals are NOT mutually exclusive. Much can be done to improve both aspects without doing things that promote one goal at the expense of the other.


run the side by sides my friend, I have


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## ttystikk (May 8, 2016)

RM3 said:


> run the side by sides my friend, I have


Come up and have a look for yourself. My whole op is a series of side by sides.


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## Budley Doright (May 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I work at achieving the best balance between yield and strength possible. Unlike @RM3 I am firmly of the opinion that the two goals are NOT mutually exclusive. Much can be done to improve both aspects without doing things that promote one goal at the expense of the other.
> 
> I'm running 860W CDM Allstart lamps because they produce more resin and better flavors. I get lots of people telling me that my produce is better than a dispensary's top shelf, often telling me that mine has achieved "best ever!" status for them.
> 
> ...


I've been eyeing the CDM's for a bit .


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## Budley Doright (May 8, 2016)

RM3 said:


> well here is a pic of my CTF strain being grown by another grower, this is one plant at day 49, I'm pretty sure my gear yields just fine
> .
> View attachment 3676467


You were the one that said yield does not matter, and I never said yours were poor .


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## a mongo frog (May 8, 2016)

RM3 said:


> well here is a pic of my CTF strain being grown by another grower, this is one plant at day 49, I'm pretty sure my gear yields just fine
> .
> View attachment 3676467


I fucking love gardeners who can take super green leaves into late bloom, and finish like that. Thats well done. Ben was super right on that one. Fuck a bloom booster.


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## RM3 (May 8, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> I fucking love gardeners who can take super green leaves into late bloom, and finish like that. Thats well done. Ben was super right on that one. Fuck a bloom booster.


The guy growing that plant is one of my students  

Me & UB agree on a lot of things


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## RM3 (May 8, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> You were the one that said yield does not matter, and I never said yours were poor .


it's more the mindset that doesn't matter


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## RM3 (May 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Come up and have a look for yourself. My whole op is a series of side by sides.


we're workin on that


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## Budley Doright (May 8, 2016)

RM3 said:


> run the side by sides my friend, I have


Side by sides of what? Lights? Have you ran an LED beside an t5 setup? I did the t5 beside the Hid but really not a true one as there was light wash hitting both trays and the plants directly under the HID's did outperform the t5's in yield but were the same or very close in potency. And it was only once . I really am not the best judge of potency, I have three levels ...... "This is shit", "this is ok", and finally "yes I'm high".


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## a mongo frog (May 8, 2016)

RM3 said:


> The guy growing that plant is one of my students
> 
> Me & UB agree on a lot of things


I started running like that in 2011, right when he/you guys were preaching that. UB was preaching that big time then. Most wouldn't listen though. All you do is stop dropping N in late bloom. No disrespect to any gardener, but i hate seeing a yellowed out crop at finish and they say how its supposed to be like that.


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## Budley Doright (May 8, 2016)

RM3 said:


> it's more the mindset that doesn't matter


Yes I'm starting to get it.....it does but it's not your top concern, kinda like the rest of us .


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## RM3 (May 8, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Side by sides of what? Lights? Have you ran an LED beside an t5 setup? I did the t5 beside the Hid but really not a true one as there was light wash hitting both trays and the plants directly under the HID's did outperform the t5's in yield but were the same or very close in potency. And it was only once . I really am not the best judge of potency, I have three levels ...... "This is shit", "this is ok", and finally "yes I'm high".


Side by's of the 2 different styles of growing as set out in this post ,,,,,,,,,

https://www.rollitup.org/t/quality-over-quantity-techniques.908226/page-15#post-12572909


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## Budley Doright (May 8, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> I started running like that in 2011, right when he/you guys were preaching that. UB was preaching that big time then. Most wouldn't listen though. All you do is stop dropping N in late bloom. No disrespect to any gardener, but i hate seeing a yellowed out crop at finish and they say how its supposed to be like that.


Ya it looks all dead and ugly lol. I get concerned if my plant looks like that .


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## ttystikk (May 8, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Side by sides of what? Lights? Have you ran an LED beside an t5 setup? I did the t5 beside the Hid but really not a true one as there was light wash hitting both trays and the plants directly under the HID's did outperform the t5's in yield but were the same or very close in potency. And it was only once . I really am not the best judge of potency, I have three levels ...... "This is shit", "this is ok", and finally "yes I'm high".


There's a fourth; "Fuuuuuuuuk!" Lol


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## a mongo frog (May 8, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> Ya it looks all dead and ugly lol. I get concerned if my plant looks like that .


Honestly the truth is, if one runs super healthy throughout flower more then likely you are going to have a great yield with super quality. And i think thats the mindset that people are talking about.


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## Budley Doright (May 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> There's a fourth; "Fuuuuuuuuk!" Lol


I guess . Perhaps I'm missing that in my life lol. I hang around with a bunch of younger guys that are in my classes and their all like "fuck dude, this is fucking assume" and I'm like "huh, well ok then" and that's when I think I should quit for a while lol. Honestly the only thing that's gets me consistently in the I'm stoned zone is my concentrate, that is some serious jail time here ...... Fucking embicile people in power .


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## Budley Doright (May 8, 2016)

a mongo frog said:


> Honestly the truth is, if one runs super healthy throughout flower more then likely you are going to have a great yield with super quality. And i think thats the mindset that people are talking about.


I agree, when I first started indoors the girls near the end would fade, lose all their leaves, and I thought this was normal. My outdoor grows would fade and that was normal but indoors I now keep them green and healthy till chop for the most part


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## RM3 (May 9, 2016)

Budley Doright said:


> I guess . Perhaps I'm missing that in my life lol. I hang around with a bunch of younger guys that are in my classes and their all like "fuck dude, this is fucking assume" and I'm like "huh, well ok then" and that's when I think I should quit for a while lol. Honestly the only thing that's gets me consistently in the I'm stoned zone is my concentrate, that is some serious jail time here ...... Fucking embicile people in power .


This is a 2 week old seedling of my new strain Road to Neverland ,,,,

I have no need to smoke concentrates 
.


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## chuck estevez (May 9, 2016)

i used to be anti dabs, then i started making rosin. it makes more sense to not smoke all that plant material and just smoke what gets you high. 2 dabs vs 20 bong hits


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## Budley Doright (May 9, 2016)

RM3 said:


> This is a 2 week old seedling of my new strain Road to Neverland ,,,,
> 
> I have no need to smoke concentrates
> .
> View attachment 3677165


Perhaps you don't, I do lol. And pretty sure I'm getting some pretty good smoke here as well on occasion. And yes Chuck your rite less is best. But if RM's weed is a one hit, 4 hour high well then I guess he's got that covered . And yes that's kinda what I'm saying as well, yes I could get just as high smoking pot, just would need to smoke a joint or two instead of a couple of small dabs. They make my toes tingle, that could be the diabetes though lol.


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## CommercialGrow (May 20, 2016)

REALSTYLES said:


> checkout my cheese enchiladas with homemade tortilla shells I love to cook lol
> 
> View attachment 3674526
> View attachment 3674527


Now that looks dank.


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## ttystikk (Dec 10, 2016)

Here's a frosty girl that isn't lacking in the yield department. Sonic Screwdriver, this is just day 43;


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## 420producer (Dec 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Here's a frosty girl that isn't lacking in the yield department. Sonic Screwdriver, this is just day 43;
> View attachment 3850589 View attachment 3850590 View attachment 3850591


what nute line are you running? or at least base nutes. looking good for day 43..


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## Alienwidow (Dec 17, 2016)

chuck estevez said:


> i used to be anti dabs, then i started making rosin. it makes more sense to not smoke all that plant material and just smoke what gets you high. 2 dabs vs 20 bong hits


Nah, not 20 bong hits, just more kick to the hit. I love rosin, but if you got fire strains, hittin both can do just as much with maybe 8 bong hits lololol


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## ttystikk (Dec 17, 2016)

420producer said:


> what nute line are you running? or at least base nutes. looking good for day 43..


Agricultural Dry nutrient salts. Much like Jacks.


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## 420producer (Dec 17, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Agricultural Dry nutrient salts. Much like Jacks.


hmm never heard of.. you are in the states? anyone ever use growmore nutes??


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## ttystikk (Dec 17, 2016)

420producer said:


> hmm never heard of.. you are in the states? anyone ever use growmore nutes??


I'm in Colorado. The brand i use is called Chemgro, and their website is www.hydro-gardens.com


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## 420producer (Dec 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> I'm in Colorado. The brand i use is called Chemgro, and their website is www.hydro-gardens.com


ok . me too .loveland. -17


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## Budley Doright (Dec 18, 2016)

^^^^^^ yes it seems your storms are coming here every week.........stop it!!!


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## Olive Drab Green (Dec 18, 2016)

241w of COB. 3 weeks 2 days in.

Lemon Garlic OG by Humboldt Seed Organization followed by Colorado Thunder Fuck by RiddleM3.


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## dandyrandy (Dec 18, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Here's a frosty girl that isn't lacking in the yield department. Sonic Screwdriver, this is just day 43;
> View attachment 3850589 View attachment 3850590 View attachment 3850591


I have beans I need to run of that. I have around 50 strain choices in my box. It's tough. Nice btw!


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