# Water Causing Burns on Plant Leaves, a Myth?



## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

Lets settle this once and for all. In nature it rains. That water sits on leaves and the sun comes out. Sometimes very brilliantly. Plants in nature don't just burn the hell up from this. I postulate that this is a myth and if I am to believe I am wrong, please, someone show me some actual evidence.

I am willing to admit when I am wrong but this idea is so out there...

Clean water, cooled lights at proper distance with decent ventilation, NEVER seen it happen. I have seen things I mistook for burning from nutrient solution but most of those turned out to be early warnings of nutrient deficiencies that I ignored and began to spread. 

So, anyone, show me, not pics of your "water burns" but actual shots of you attempting to and successfully burning a plant leaf with water. Or, show me one peer reviewed paper that demonstrates this effect. Convince me, please so that if I am wrong I can stop spreading misinformation. If no one does this I will do it. I will take one plant and mist it twice a day during lights on and we will see what king of burning a 1kw can do at 12 inches.

I will say this, if you are to mist constantly, your plants leaves will spot up. That is because the water has heavy elements that begin to dry and peel the leaf surface. Think about how birdshit on the hood of a car can eat through the wax and even burn the paint in a spot. That is my experience and I am sticking to it unless someone can show me I am wrong.


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

Now, if you took a plant from weak light to strong light and put a bunch of water on it, yeah, that could do it. If you brought a 1kw from 24 to 8 inches and sprayed the plant, yeah, that could do it too. But if you are not doing these things and the plant is properly hardened to it's environment, it won't happen.


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## ChubbySoap (Apr 11, 2011)

know anything about optics?

D:


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## jesus of Cannabis (Apr 11, 2011)

I think he just made the first post to use the word postulate cause it reminds him of prostate.
How far away are the grow lights from their plants underneath?
How far away is the sun and its "Brilliantly" shining days?

+rep for fragmented sentences for the OP



NOT


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## ChubbySoap (Apr 11, 2011)

these people must be stark raving mad to you?

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/a-drop-of-water-can-cause-forest-fire-study/566523/

i don't understand.....

EDIT:
i'm somewhat skeptical a single example is actually going to convince you...
i really don't have the desire to hunt down and pay to steal screens of the paper in question for your review...but it's out there
several more besides....


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## jesus of Cannabis (Apr 11, 2011)

_leaves that have small wax hairs are susceptible to leaf burn as hairs on the surface holds water droplets in focus acting as a magnifying glass. _


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## ChubbySoap (Apr 11, 2011)

you can even scale it up to see the effect with your own eyes....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtXOr-5Q8RQ


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

I am not sure why I am being attacked, I guess conformity is highly valued.

That article, while dubious, is really not proof of what we are talking about. I understand refraction and I can see that a dry forest floor and a water droplet above could cause fire in extreme heat and the perfect conditions. That's really not what this post is about. I know how a magnifying glass works, you have to lift it to a certain height to burn anything below to concentrate the apex of the focal planes. It's not that hard to figure out. But, if you take a drop of water, place it on a leaf and apply light, you will not get a burn. The water is too close and cooling, lets not forget, as well as the fact that the plant is absorbing a certain amount of the water and light.

Please, let's not be insulting. I genuinely want to know. If you don't have some article about the actual subject, don't expect to change my mind here. 

How about this? I will disprove this old myth myself. Hey, maybe it will backfire on me. I will share my results either way. Sound fair?


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

I am not doubting that a lens can concentrate light to burn, duh. I could see that water suspended above the plant leaf could burn it. Ok a hair might be able to do this. But then the water evaporates so fast at that level and, scaled down the effect is much less. Also, being suspended on a hair would deform the lens and make it even less effective. Please let's not demonstrate basic concepts in physics here. Let me see proof of water doing this to an MJ plant.

In 25 years of growing pot I have never seen it. Am I lucky? Do I just always have enough ventilation and air turbulence? Maybe so. I will see if I can replicate the perfect water burning environment to produce the effect.


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## ChubbySoap (Apr 11, 2011)

i wasn't attacking...i was pointing out most web engines find a bit regarding the matter...and the scientific community has moved along is all
i don't even mind you dismiss it out of hand either...it's okay by me.

sure, i got no beef with you conducting your own, no doubt, much more rigorous and thorough, testing....


I won't lie...I'm eager to hear your reports


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

Look, I am sure under certain circumstances, water can cause problems on leaves. But telling everyone who mists their plants (many under cfls) that they can burn their plants, is dead wrong. Plants love it. Don't overdo it but they do like it. I would never foliar feed in the light cycle.

Please, if these studies are so prevalent, produce them. I will produce one that discounts it for everyone you can find. Let's see what kind of (proven) credentials and peer review we can muster on this.


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

Below is the "attack" I was referring to.


jesus of Cannabis said:


> I think he just made the first post to use the word postulate cause it reminds him of prostate.
> How far away are the grow lights from their plants underneath?
> How far away is the sun and its "Brilliantly" shining days?
> 
> ...


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

jesus of Cannabis said:


> _leaves that have small wax hairs are susceptible to leaf burn as hairs on the surface holds water droplets in focus acting as a magnifying glass. _


So you say.


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

Lets see, just offhand...

http://www.finegardening.com/plants/articles/demystifying-garden-myths.aspx
http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basics Bonsai Myths Misting.htm

Oh wait, here's a PHD

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda chalker-scott/horticultural myths_files/Myths/Leaf scorch.pdf

Please peeps. I am sorry you believed it but let's get to the truth here. Not "get the noob".


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

From the above article.

There are many causes of leaf scorch, but irrigation with fresh water is certainly not one of them.
Hundreds of scientific publications on crop plants, turf, woody shrubs and trees have examined foliar
scorch, and not one of them has implicated midday irrigation as a causal agent. What does cause damage,
however, is suboptimal plant-water relations, which can result in tip and marginal leaf scorch, shoot
dieback, stunted growth, and leaf abscission. After drought, the most common source of these problems
is salt, in particular salts containing sodium (Na) and/or chlorine (Cl).


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## ChubbySoap (Apr 11, 2011)

well...at least you're honest....you just want to argue.
every one i produce you will match with a patriot missile...okie dokie.

the problem here is that you alone get to decide what valid proof consists of, yet you seem to have no obligation to set out on the table your defining criteria beforehand...
there's no way to play your game my man...you got to at least give the impression there is a slim chance you can be bested...ya know?

it's not bad to mist them...they love it....unless you overdo it...
thanks for helping clarify the misconception


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## RIXUK (Apr 11, 2011)

Hi,
This was either from spraying or over water.
http://s640.photobucket.com/albums/uu128/TRIXTSTA/?action=view&current=pooly001.jpg
Im not use to seedlings but when I do cones I spray all the time once they get roots and never had a problem,seems seedlings dont like it.


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

RIXUK said:


> Hi,
> This was either from spraying or over water.
> http://s640.photobucket.com/albums/uu128/TRIXTSTA/?action=view&current=pooly001.jpg
> Im not use to seedlings but when I do cones I spray all the time once they get roots and never had a problem,seems seedlings dont like it.


Yes, classic overwatering. Your rockwool is staying too wet. if you spray them in a small amount of medium then the medium becomes constantly wet.


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

ChubbySoap said:


> well...at least you're honest....you just want to argue.
> every one i produce you will match with a patriot missile...okie dokie.
> 
> the problem here is that you alone get to decide what valid proof consists of, yet you seem to have no obligation to set out on the table your defining criteria beforehand...
> ...


I have posted a PHD article that refers to actual studies. You have posted nothing. If this is just an ego thing then let it go. I AM indeed interested in arguing. After all, that's how science works. hypothesis, study, findings, peer review. 

So, let's see your countering studies. The vast majority of the science community agrees with me. You just have hearsay.


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

I have lived and worked on commercial farms all my life. Farmers often will irrigate with sprinklers in the late afternoon so that less of the water evaporates to cool the crops more. If the water burning was a fact, they would stop that practice due to losses.

Maybe MJ is special. I am open to that. This is why I think it's important to debate this here.


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## tip top toker (Apr 11, 2011)

Question for you fella. is a burn a problem?


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## Brick Top (Apr 11, 2011)

jack ripa said:


> Lets see, just offhand...
> 
> http://www.finegardening.com/plants/articles/demystifying-garden-myths.aspx
> http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basics%20Bonsai%20Myths%20Misting.htm
> ...



Like I said to you in one of my PMs, not all plants, bushes and trees are the same.

"But on leaves with small wax hairs," say like the trichomes on cannabis plants, "the hairs," like trichomes on cannabis plants, "were able to hold water droplets above the leaf surface, creating a magnifying-glass effect that gave the leaves a noticeable sunburn." 


*Water Drops Magnify Sunlight and Burn Leaves*


LiveScience Staff
Date: 10 January 2010 Time: 02:00 PM ET

SHARE THIS PAGE 

















Fall leaves.
CREDIT: stock.xchng  Many gardeners swear you should not water in the midday because water droplets on plants can magnify the sun's rays and burn leaves. *But the idea has never been rigorously tested, until now.* 
"This is far from a trivial question," said biophysicist Gabor Horvath at Eotvos University in Budapest, Hungary. "The prevailing opinion is that forest fires can be sparked by intense sunlight focused by water drops on dried-out vegetation." 
Horvath and colleagues used both experiments and computer modeling to figure out the physics that goes on. *The results varied depending on the type of leaf.* 

On smooth surfaces, such as a healthy maple leaf, no leaf burn occurred. 

*But on leaves with small wax hairs, such as those of the floating fern, the hairs were able to hold water droplets above the leaf surface, creating a magnifying-glass effect that gave the leaves a noticeable sunburn* &#8212; though no open flames resulted. 

Could the same effect on a dry leaf start a forest fire? 

"If the focal region of drops falls exactly on the dry plant surface intensely focused sunlight could theoretically start a fire," Horvath said. "However, the likelihood is reduced as the water drops should evaporate before this, so these claims should be treated with a grain of salt." 

However, hairy human skin might suffer the same effect, enhancing sunburn, the researchers speculate. 

"In sunshine water drops residing on smooth hairless plant leaves are unlikely to damage the leaf tissue," Horvath and colleagues conclude. *"However water drops held by plant hairs can indeed cause sunburn* and the same phenomenon can occur when water droplets are held above human skin by body hair." 

The findings are detailed in the journal New Phytologist. 



http://www.livescience.com/6017-water-drops-magnify-sunlight-burn-leaves.html


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## ChubbySoap (Apr 11, 2011)

see what you've done!?

You have awakened a wrath older than time itself!
I hope you're happy!

*runs and hides*


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## Brick Top (Apr 11, 2011)

ChubbySoap said:


> see what you've done!?
> 
> You have awakened a wrath older than time itself!
> I hope you're happy!
> ...


I just had to post he information. The thing is about people with no actual knowledge in horticulture is they will Google and find something that fits their beliefs and believe that they provided the singular answer to a question. But as I told jack ripa in a PM, in more than one actually, that not all plants and bushes and trees are the same. 

His information is accurate IF someone is talking about plants or bushes or trees that do not have trichomes, or wax-like hairs on them like cannabis plants do. But cannabis plants do have trichomes and they react different than smooth leaves when it comes to water droplets. 

He told me in a PM that when he is proven wrong he is very humble. So now I am awaiting his response where, if he was honest about himself, he will be eating a very healthy portion of humble pie.

Possibly he may care to do the same here in the thread since he was misleading people, spreading inaccurate information and has now clearly been proven to be incorrect.


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## tip top toker (Apr 11, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> I just had to post he information. The thing is about people with no actual knowledge in horticulture is they will Google and find something that fits their beliefs and believe that they provided the singular answer to a question. But as I told jack ripa in a PM, in more than one actually, that not all plants and bushes and trees are the same.
> 
> His information is accurate IF someone is talking about plants or bushes or trees that do not have trichomes, or wax-like hairs on them like cannabis plants do. But cannabis plants do have trichomes and they react different than smooth leaves when it comes to water droplets.
> 
> ...


The very article he chose to dismiss made that exact point between different types of leaves having a different experience. Some people just read what they want to read, as you say.


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## ChubbySoap (Apr 11, 2011)

no disrespect was intended....
i very much enjoy when the local Krakens are awakened....awe inspiring and well respected beasts they are too.
even when i get trampled underfoot for my foolishness...i learn something every time lolz


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## Brick Top (Apr 11, 2011)

tip top toker said:


> The very article he chose to dismiss made that exact point between different types of leaves having a different experience. Some people just read what they want to read, as you say.



People who lack education in a certain field, if cornered, will attempt to dismiss all inconvenient facts out of sheer desperation to attempt to appear as if they know more than they do. They hope others do not realize that facts are facts so possibly they can still appear as if they know what they are talking about, but the facts that are not convenient cannot simply be ignored. They remain facts even though they prove someone wrong when that person desperately does not want to be proven wrong because they have taken such a firm stance on some issue. 

The more concrete of a stance they take the more desperate they will be to attempt to spin and blow smoke and misrepresent what proves them to be incorrect into appearing to not prove them to be wrong. They always fail in their attempts. People always see through it, the person never gets away with it, but most of those people would eat a yard of their own shit before admitting they were wrong.


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## tip top toker (Apr 11, 2011)

I'm still waiting for his definition of problems and that of burn. Because unless burning a leaf isn't in some way a problem, he's already admited that it happens, and then instantly contradicted himself to maintain his position. 



> * I am sure under certain circumstances, water can cause problems on leaves. But telling everyone who mists their plants (many under cfls) that they can burn their plants, is dead wrong.*


*

Seems slightly silly and contradictory to me  
*


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## Brick Top (Apr 11, 2011)

tip top toker said:


> I'm still waiting for his definition of problems and that of burn. Because unless burning a leaf isn't in some way a problem, he's already admited that it happens, and then instantly contradicted himself to maintain his position.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In a PM he said that he proved me wrong and included links to information about plants where what he repeatedly claimed to me to be true, that water droplets cannot burn plants, but as what has been posted has proved there is a difference if a leaf is smooth or if it has hairs/trichomes, and then it can and will burn.

Now I did agree with him that the odds of it happening to CFL growers are slim to none, but he said in PMs that even under HID lighting or the sun burning from water droplets on leaves could not occur.


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## ChubbySoap (Apr 11, 2011)

even said farmers prefer to water in the late afternoon...instead of the blistering heat of the noon day sun
why do they wait until the sun is at a lower angle and when it's already cooling off anyways for?

let's temporarily ignore the ludicrous claim of evaporating water not being able to carry away more heat than a drop of water just sitting there in an even cooler environment...
yes, even though it totally goes against all known forms of respected thermodynamics


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

Farmers prefer to do so to prevent evaporation and give cooling when the plants need it most. When they have used the moisture in their root zone between the time moisture wicks out and eventually leeches back to the needed area.

You guys are funny. That article does not reference any studies whatsoever. Brick top has been calling me out in PM and I honestly thought someone would have some sort of proof of this happening with MJ but as it turns out this is like so many MJ ideas, a well entrenched myth that will persist regardless of my attempts to clarify.

I said that it probably can occur under extreme circumstances, ie. hard water, intense reflected sun, possibly on a super small scale just under normal conditions. To think for a second that this is a worry in our gardens or a threat to our plants is the myth.

It's funny to see you guys clamor though.


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## puffntuff (Apr 11, 2011)

If you put water on flowers in the midday you will have burn marks. When I lived in socal I watered my outside garden at around 11am-12pm and the next day had waterspots all over my flowers. So some plants are more sensitive than others.


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## tip top toker (Apr 11, 2011)

So it can occur but if i were to tell someone it can occur, this is totally false? I'm confused. I'm just repeating what you've said there.


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## Brick Top (Apr 11, 2011)

jack ripa said:


> Farmers


Smokescreen, spin, avoidance technique. Farm crops are not cannabis. You might as well tell us about how and when the grounds crew at Wrigley Field waters the grass.



> *On smooth surfaces, such as a healthy maple leaf, no leaf burn occurred.
> 
> But on leaves with small wax hairs, such as those of the floating fern, the hairs were able to hold water droplets above the leaf surface, creating a magnifying-glass effect that gave the leaves a noticeable sunburn *



Face the facts dude, you have been totally inaccurate when the plant in question is a cannabis plant due to having trichomes and not being some farm crop.


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

Ok, so then show me this occurring with cannabis then. You haven't shown a shred of credible information. I can find three scientists who believe in UFOs but I can't seem any studies to show that their opinions are correct or factual. You accuse me of cherry picking but you are doing the same. In fact my link if far more credible than yours. I am compiling a list of studies. Keep up to date and Brick, buddy, calm down. You are taking this way too personally. It wreaks of fear, not knowledge. Your belittling doesn't prove anything.

Let's get to the bottom of this.

My claim: weed growers don't need to worry about water burn. My personal 25 years of growing expereince at all levels has shown this to be true. Show me your water burns caused by clean water under normal conditions if you can. Show me anyone who has shown definitively that this is a problem.


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

puffntuff said:


> If you put water on flowers in the midday you will have burn marks. When I lived in socal I watered my outside garden at around 11am-12pm and the next day had waterspots all over my flowers. So some plants are more sensitive than others.


Waterspots are not burns. Hard elements can spot and possibly burn. Your water likely has an excess of ca or cl in it.


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> Smokescreen, spin, avoidance technique. Farm crops are not cannabis. You might as well tell us about how and when the grounds crew at Wrigley Field waters the grass.


For a guy with a horticultural degree you show a real lack of understanding of plants. MJ is not the only plant with trichomes. Many farm crops, indeed many many plants have trichomes.






Brick Top said:


> Face the facts dude...


As soon as you present them I will do so.


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## ChubbySoap (Apr 11, 2011)

right...see? right there....you just said it again....
whatever i could show you, you would claim to be attributed to the solution outside the cells increasing in salt concentration (as the water evaporates), osmotically drawing water from the leaf cells, causing injury to the cells. Even if there is an entire squad of solemn reputable scientists at my back.
you would be indeed correct that your idea happens as well...cause it does...but to say water drops never doing it is plain silly.

btw...what light source are we talking about currently?...you keep hopping around...each have different chances of producing said effects

After all, rain doesn't wait for night-time to fall, and you don't recall seeing leaf injury from raindrops unless there was hail associated with the rain, right?
Have you ever actually looked? happens all the time *points out window* especially right after the rare midday downpour and instant high noon sun afterward...

EDIT:
oh wait...right...it doesn't rain ultra pure water...you win again

lmfao


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## Brick Top (Apr 11, 2011)

> Originally Posted by *Brick Top*
> Smokescreen, spin, avoidance technique. Farm crops are not cannabis. You might as well tell us about how and when the grounds crew at Wrigley Field waters the grass.






jack ripa said:


> *For a guy with a horticultural degree* you show a real lack of understanding of plants. MJ is not the only plant with trichomes. Many farm crops, indeed many many plants have trichomes.


I really dislike it when someone resorts to dishonesty. I said enough times in threads and in PMs to you that I have four family members with degrees in horticulture and that with them we own a nursery that covers roughly 17 acres of land. I have never once claimed to have a degree in horticulture myself. 

And I never said that there were no farm crops that do not have trichomes. But it is not like the degree or burn that will occur on them is more damaging than letting them go without water or that they should be protected from rain. Water droplets that cause burn are not like acid that destroy plants or crops, but they will damage them at least to a minor degree. Like how I said in some cases it will cause a minor bleaching and nothing more. 

Again you are attempting to rely on spin and to create a smokescreen and use avoidance techniques. The topic is water droplets causing burn on cannabis plants. The information I posted clearly stated that on smooth leaved plants it will not happen but on plants with wax-like hairs, which the resin coated trichomes virtually are, it can and it will cause burning under the right conditions. 



You need to accept that you were wrong, accept and admit that you gave out inaccurate misleading information, and learn from this experience and move on as a more knowledgeable grower than you were before this exchange. 

Sure you made yourself look foolish in front of everyone, but at least you learned something, so it was not all bad for you.


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

Haha, ok, you are really bent on me being wrong so here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/7823032/Sunburnt-plants-myth-is-debunked.html

This article, citing studies, finds that it is mostly a myth but that sometimes plants with hairs can as you say bleach slightly. Thing is, I have seen countless threads where people attribute burning to water or misting and the fact is, that is just really not likely to be the case. As stated in the article, the hairs also tend to shed water. So look, maybe we all learned something today. I can admit that the possibility exists but I would also say that it's a really overblown issue that does not require the amount of attention and worry that most growers seem to be giving it. If you have any air moving leaves, I still assert, you have no worries of burning your plants due to misting. 

So, ok, this is why I started the thread. All angst aside from certain high post count members, I will always still advise people to look elsewhere for the issue. I will continue to mist my plants when I feel the need, not when the light is right. A young seedling drowning in a large drop of water will slow it's growth and maybe (thought probably not at mid day) cause bleaching. I don't suggest anyone incessantly spray and keep their environment moist.

So in summary, I may be wrong in the exact details but I feel I am still correct in my belief that it is not a major concern.

So brick, if I feel like giving my advice to newbs with CFLs, I would appreciate you to lay off me and allow me to share my experience with out a barrage of vitriolic PMs. Thanks and good bye.


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## Brick Top (Apr 11, 2011)

jack ripa said:


> Haha, ok, you are really bent on me being wrong so here.



Did you even bother to read the article?

It said:

Only on some tropical plants *with hairy leaves were the water droplets held sufficiently far from the surface to cause burning*. 

And what you said is false said:

*But on leaves with small wax hairs, such as those of the floating fern, the hairs were able to hold water droplets above the leaf surface, creating a magnifying-glass effect that gave the leaves a noticeable sunburn*

Gee .. there's a big difference there!

Give it up fella, you've been proven to be wrong and even the things you are relying on to try to use to dig you out of the hole you dug yourself in at least in part only dig you in deeper. 

It is possible, it happens, accept it and move on.


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

Dude, wow, do you read what I write? You need a big glass of STFU. I already said I was wrong, somewhat.

I will reassert here that I doubt you have actually seen this happen and that all of the cases of supposed water burning were actually nutrient burning or some nutritional deficiency. It probably can happen. Does it actually happen? Likely rarely.

Broken record....geezus.


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

I have to say, brick, you have not been helpful at all in your delivery but really come off as quite an asshole.


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## ChubbySoap (Apr 11, 2011)

he just dislikes having to repeat himself is all...gets understandably grumpish and curt...but not asshole proportions by any stretch of imagination


if you're pissed off in the end, then he is doing his duty correctly in my eyes, because he never fails to be informative.
education is often a painful, emotional process...and it sure does stick his way.
i like blunt education...it's easier to absorb


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

How many of you have seen a droplet of water suspended on your MJ leaves by hairs? No one? Ok. Point made. I don't know anyone who sprays buds for other reasons. So, done deal. The possibility exists but I have yet to see proof of it happening. 

Burning your plants with water=mostly myth.


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## jesus of Cannabis (Apr 11, 2011)

jack ripa said:


> How many of you have seen a droplet of water suspended on your MJ leaves by hairs? No one? Ok. Point made.


 never saw Santa Claus either.....


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## Brick Top (Apr 11, 2011)

jack ripa said:


> Burning your plants with water=*mostly myth.*


Doing a little backing up on what you first claimed, aren't you? You said it was a myth, now after your own information damn near matched mine you are backing up and trying to claim it is; "mostly myth."

Well; "mostly myth" is like only being a little pregnant. Either you are pregnant or you are not and water either can burn or it cannot burn ... and here is the key point from what you posted and what I posted.

*Yours said:

Only on some tropical plants with hairy leaves were the water droplets held sufficiently far from the surface to cause burning. 

And mine said:

But on leaves with small wax hairs, such as those of the floating fern, the hairs were able to hold water droplets above the leaf surface, creating a magnifying-glass effect that gave the leaves a noticeable sunburn

Gee .. there's a big difference there!
*
Do you want to try to save some face and rephrase your; "mostly myth" statement and instead say, it is a somewhat uncommon occurrence but water droplets on cannabis leaves can burn them?


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## ChubbySoap (Apr 11, 2011)

of course i never see it...i use cfls...they don't put out enough to even have a remote chance of burning anything with the aid of a drop of water
i ain't running out to purchase a high power system just to satisfy some random peep on a forum anytime soon
i've never seen baby pigeons before either.... therefore they don't exist....?

seem perfectly reasonable by your logic...most people never seen em either...so it must be true


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> Doing a little backing up on what you first claimed, aren't you? You said it was a myth, now after your own information damn near matched mine you are backing up and trying to claim it is; "mostly myth."
> 
> Well; "mostly myth" is like only being a little pregnant. Either you are pregnant or you are not and water either can burn or it cannot burn ... and here is the key point from what you posted and what I posted.
> 
> ...


Hey skip, maybe you need a new prescription. You are missing the point.


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

If you can't point to a case of it happening, then I am 100% correct saying it IS NOT AN ISSUE, especially on vegging plants.

How many of you grow plants that have trichomes large enough in veg to actually suspend water over the leaves? None. Not a single one. So it is a myth that may have some loose basis in fact.


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## Brick Top (Apr 11, 2011)

jack ripa said:


> If you can't point to a case of it happening, then I am 100% correct saying it IS NOT AN ISSUE, especially on vegging plants.
> 
> How many of you grow plants that have trichomes large enough in veg to actually suspend water over the leaves? None. Not a single one. So it is a myth that may have some loose basis in fact.



Spin ... smoke screen ... diversion tactics ... avoidance techniques. 

It is not at all about when or even how often it happens, but instead if it can happen or not. Both your information and mine said plants with hairs can retain droplets of water and end up with leaf burn. 

You called it; "a forum myth." you flat out said it cannot happen. You told me in a PM that I shouldn't listen to what "the stoners" claim because it is only a; "myth"

Then you tried the; "mostly-myth" thing." Now you are trying to say "if someone can't point to a case of it happening...." Well that is not needed. Your information said plants with hairs, my information said plants with hairs, I have seen it before, and while I cannot recall if anyone else in this thread has said they have seen it I have seen it mentioned a goodly number of times over the years on a number of different growing sites. 

Why do you need to keep dancing around the facts" Are you attempting to minimalism them to the point where you can yet again attempt to claim it is impossible and it is only a myth?

Just grow a pair, then grow some hair on them so you can then admit that you were totally wrong and that while it is not a common occurrence it can and does happen and then get over it and move on.


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

Brick Top said:


> Spin ... smoke screen ... diversion tactics ... avoidance techniques.


That's very repetitive of you.



Brick Top said:


> It is not at all about when or even how often it happens, but instead if it can happen or not.


Wrong, the argument is not that simple. There was a purpose to my assertion of myth. From what I have learned I am mostly right. My reasoning is that a.95% or more of the people who as you say "mention it on forums" (which doesn't make it true as I could show you in 5 other MJ myth cases that I will save for other threads to amuse you), don't have to worry about it. If they don't spray water on their buds they will be fine. and b.that the other 5 % need to worry about air circulation way more than water on leaves. So, by saying "mostly myth" I am speaking of a forum myth exactly like I said to you before you sent me a million PMs RABIDLY trying to force me to believe what you have been duped into believing. You were repetitive and I realized that my requests to "agree to disagree" seem to only enrage you further.


Brick Top said:


> Both your information and mine said plants with hairs can retain droplets of water and end up with leaf burn.


I am not denying that. As you keep ignoring I admitted that scholarly data seemed to infer that hairs can do damage. My point is that that damage is ultra rare if at all possible (I have not seen it ever in 25 years of hardcore growing) and that the actual hairs of cannabis that occur on the vegging leaves will not typically suspend a water droplet high enough to actually burn this way.



Brick Top said:


> You called it; "a forum myth." you flat out said it cannot happen. You told me in a PM that I shouldn't listen to what "the stoners" claim because it is only a; "myth"


I did. I stand by that. I am stoner but you have to admit, if there's any single group capable of perpetuating a myth it would be us, stoners.



Brick Top said:


> Then you tried the; "mostly-myth" thing." Now you are trying to say "if someone can't point to a case of it happening...." Well that is not needed. Your information said plants with hairs, my information said plants with hairs, I have seen it before, and while I cannot recall if anyone else in this thread has said they have seen it I have seen it mentioned a goodly number of times over the years on a number of different growing sites.
> 
> Why do you need to keep dancing around the facts" Are you attempting to minimalism them to the point where you can yet again attempt to claim it is impossible and it is only a myth?
> 
> Just grow a pair, then grow some hair on them so you can then admit that you were totally wrong and that while it is not a common occurrence it can and does happen and then get over it and move on.


You have had nothing but anger and insults in teh face of my quest for knowledge. I stated that I wanted to hear from growers of MJ specifically. That is why this is the best place to put it out there. You have stated your opinion, shown thin evidence and now want me to bow at your feet and say you are 100% right or nothing at all. You sir are a bully. You are also not helping these forums with your attacks and pointless repetition.


Once again I ask you, lets agree to disagree. Let someone else answer.


*Does anyone have an actual case of this they think they can prove? I would LOVE to see it. I would then reconsider my position. *

I did state that studies are inadequate because they aren't MJ specific. Let's get some actual info going here people. I am going to attempt a time lapse of a newish leaf with trichomes. I think the hardest part will be getting the water droplet to suspend. We shall see.

Thanks for the interest so far and I hope we can get this sorted out once and for all rather than just taking people's word for it. This is science. New ideas are always attacked by "the old guard" but it's healthy. 

Pics later. I promise...muahahaha!


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

And I will tell you another thing, I fucking hope I can damn well do it. If I am the first to get a time lapse of this effect actually happening I will be proud as hell. I will have put an end to the question.

That's what I really want. Not cherry picking a single bit. I want the truth.


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Apr 11, 2011)

And we're wasting our time with this again because..????


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

ENDLSCYCLE said:


> And we're wasting our time with this again because..????


Because the myth persists. And I am bored. Bother you?


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## bdonson (Apr 11, 2011)

Cripple Fight?


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## jack ripa (Apr 11, 2011)

TimmAYY! Libealivalong timmay!


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## Brick Top (Apr 12, 2011)

jack ripa said:


> Because *the myth *persists.



*Your information said:

Only on some tropical plants with hairy leaves were the water droplets held sufficiently far from the surface to cause burning. 

And mine said:

But on leaves with small wax hairs, such as those of the floating fern, the hairs were able to hold water droplets above the leaf surface, creating a magnifying-glass effect that gave the leaves a noticeable sunburn*


BOTH prove it is not a; "myth." As I have said, it is a rare occurrence and if using CFLs an almost impossibility, but it is not a myth and it has never been a myth and all your spin and twisting of things and smoke screen tactics and deceptive ways of stating things will never ever turn what can and occasionally does happen into being a; "myth."

Why are you so totally incapable of understanding and accepting that fact? Why do you insist on misleading people and intentionally spread false information? Because your pride and ego have been bruised because not only the information I supplied but also information you yourself supplied proved it is not a; "myth" and that you have been wrong all along?

Dude, people know for sure now and you can't put the shit back in the donkey, you can't put the genie back in the lamp. 

Just accept the fact and deal with the fact and move on for God's sake.


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## Brick Top (Apr 12, 2011)

jack ripa said:


> with out a barrage of vitriolic PMs.



Don't start playing the drama queen with me about PMs after the barrage of junior high school level of maturity things you hurled at me in PMs. Nothing I said to you came close to your temper tantrum rants and childish abuse.

Just do everyone, both myself and you included, a BIG favor and let it drop and leave things as they should be.

1.) Plants with trichomes can, and at times will, suspend water droplets above the surface of the leaf and under sunlight or HID lighting the light rays can be focused onto a small area and burn the leaf tissue to some degree or another. 

2.) Water with fertilizer in it can and will burn leaves if it sits long enough just as you can fry a plant if you foliar feed with too string of a nute mixture, but it will in the case of water droplets be small isolated 'circles' of burn. 

3.) When using CFLs the odds of experiencing burning from water droplets alone is virtually zero due to the weak low intensity lighting, but if there is fertilizer in the water burning is still a possibility since in those cases is it the fertilizer and not the water/light combination that causes the burn.

4.) On smooth leafed plants, like a maple tree, water will shed and there will be no burning.

Just let it be dude. You are beating a dead horse desperately attempting to regain some slight degree of credibility after flat out saying that water droplet/light burn is nothing more than a; "forum myth" and both you and I, with the information we both posted, proved your; "forum myth" claim to be inaccurate.

First you stepped into a fresh big steaming pile of shit and as you attempted to spin your inaccuracies into accuracies you eventually found yourself waist deep and upside down in 'the big muddy.' 

Just accept reality, and then move on.


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## Brick Top (Apr 12, 2011)

ENDLSCYCLE said:


> And we're wasting our time with this again because..????


It happens now and then when someone like jack ripa insists that reality is a myth and gives out inaccurate advice and spreads incorrect information. 

Sites like this should be places were people can come to learn to grow and share factual information but thanks to members like jack ripa they instead remain universities of ignorance where incorrect personal opinion and inaccurate self created beliefs are wrongfully pawned off on unsuspecting others as being factual knowledge.


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## DrFever (Apr 12, 2011)

i will set the record straight rippa you could piss on your plants and it wouldn't burn reason you got No power period )

*Sunlight*, in the broad sense, is the total frequency spectrum of electromagnetic radiation given off by the Sun. On Earth, sunlight is filtered through the Earth's atmosphere, and *solar radiation* is obvious as daylight when the Sun is above the horizon.
When the direct solar radiation is not blocked by clouds, it is experienced as *sunshine*, a combination of bright light and radiant heat. When it is blocked by the clouds or reflects off of other objects, it is experienced as diffused light.
The World Meteorological Organization uses the term "sunshine duration" to mean the cumulative time during which an area receives direct irradiance from the Sun of at least 120 watts per square meter.[1]
Sunlight may be recorded using a sunshine recorder, pyranometer or pyrheliometer. Sunlight takes about 8.3 minutes to reach the Earth.
Direct sunlight has a luminous efficacy of about 93 lumens per watt of radiant flux, which includes infrared, visible, and ultraviolet light. Bright sunlight provides illuminance of approximately 100,000 lux or lumens per square meter at the Earth's surface.
Sunlight is a key factor in photosynthesis, a process vital for life on Earth.

I for one run 2000 watts per square meter 10,000 watts total and yes i have burnt my plants with water i like to keep humidity high in veg i used to foilage spray 2 hrs after lights off but have since stopped it


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## Brick Top (Apr 12, 2011)

jack ripa said:


> Hey skip, maybe you need a new prescription.


Another of your many immature retorts, just like in our PM exchange. Care to mention Poligrip or Depends next? I'm sure they would make some major point scoring points for your lost argument.


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## Brick Top (Apr 12, 2011)

DrFever said:


> i will set the record straight rippa you could piss on your plants and it wouldn't burn reason you got No power period )
> 
> *Sunlight*, in the broad sense, is the total frequency spectrum of electromagnetic radiation given off by the Sun. On Earth, sunlight is filtered through the Earth's atmosphere, and *solar radiation* is obvious as daylight when the Sun is above the horizon.
> When the direct solar radiation is not blocked by clouds, it is experienced as *sunshine*, a combination of bright light and radiant heat. When it is blocked by the clouds or reflects off of other objects, it is experienced as diffused light.
> ...


jack ripa plays with kiddie lighting, he has an 'Easy Bake Oven' lighting setup so he does not experience the things that happen to true growers and because of that he incorrectly believes those things are impossible.


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## jack ripa (Apr 12, 2011)

Well, I like playing with trolls as much as the next guy but I have bigger fish to fry right now.

Spent a couple hours under the 4 1000watt hps on super bright or whatever it's called with a mendocino madness clone with the largest visible trichomes I could find. Looked through 30 or so Connies but none had much actual "hair" to speak of. I got a small eye dropper and repeatedly tried to get a droplet to actually suspend off the leaf. I really could not do it. This was with bottled water. I then tried tap water and even added some epsom salt just to see if it would increase the surface tension enough to bead up.

I could not for the life of me get the water to bead up. Can anyone else do this? I would love to see a shot if someone can pull it off. A drop of water suspended on the trichome stalk above the vegetating leaf.

Disappointing to say the least. I then tried to get a good sized bead of water right in the shoot center of the plant and put it 8 inches directly below the bulb of the 1kw. I left it there until the water dried three times. I haven't noticed an effect yet but I have labled the branch and will check it.

The one really good thing about this whole experiment is that I found the beginnings of a small thrip infestation while spending time in the veg chamber. So when I say I have bigger fish to fry, I mean smaller, much smaller.

Anyhow, if anyone gets some photographic evidence of this, I will be super excited.


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## tip top toker (Apr 12, 2011)

Yeah, i tried to create fission in my kitchen, i failed so the concept must be bollocks  maybe you're just not a scientist


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## Brick Top (Apr 12, 2011)

jack ripa said:


> Well, I like playing with trolls as much as the next guy



If that is the case you must really get off playing with yourself.



> Spent a couple hours under the 4 1000watt hps on super bright or whatever it's called with a mendocino madness clone with the largest visible trichomes I could find. Looked through 30 or so Connies but none had much actual "hair" to speak of. I got a small eye dropper and repeatedly tried to get a droplet to actually suspend off the leaf. I really could not do it. This was with bottled water. I then tried tap water and even added some epsom salt just to see if it would increase the surface tension enough to bead up.
> 
> I could not for the life of me get the water to bead up. Can anyone else do this? I would love to see a shot if someone can pull it off. A drop of water suspended on the trichome stalk above the vegetating leaf.


Gee. don't I feel the fool now. Your home Mr. Wizard experiment most certainly has proven to be wrong what both your own information and my information said is factual, is true, that can and does happen. 

I bet if all the professional researchers who came to the same conclusion read your message they would hang their heads in shame.



> Disappointing to say the least. I then tried to get a good sized bead of water right in the shoot center of the plant and put it 8 inches directly below the bulb of the 1kw. I left it there until the water dried three times. I haven't noticed an effect yet but I have labled the branch and will check it.


Your own words; "*none had much actual "hair" to speak of." *So you performed home Mr. Wizard experiments on plants with admittedly few trichomes but you want to hold that up as proof positive that both your posted information and my posted information has to have been inaccurate. The fewer the hairs/trichomes the less apt it will be to occur. But at least that was a very amusing attempt on your part. 




> Anyhow, if anyone gets some photographic evidence of this, I will be super excited.


If you will really get; "super excited" I suggest that you slip a condom on or grab some tissues or paper towels before reading on.

*



Watering your garden in the midday sun can burn plants

Click to expand...

*


> *Scientists have finally confirmed what gardeners have long claimed: Water droplets can burn certain plants at the wrong time of day.*
> 
> By Bryan NelsonTue, Jan 12 2010 at 7:18 AM EST  Comments
> 
> ...


 *Determined to discover the truth, Horvath and his team of researchers conducted a series of computer and experimental studies on the problem, with surprising results. **The studies confirmed that plants can be sunburnt from water droplets* &#8212; and people can too.

The connection lies in the types of plants most susceptible to getting burned. It turns out that water droplets on a smooth surface, such as maple or ginkgo leaves, cannot cause leaf burn. *But plants with hairy leaves, such as the small wax hairs of floating ferns, tend to hold water droplets in focus above the leaf surface, magnifying the sunlight.* The same principle holds true for water held above hairy human skin after bathing.

Researchers also considered if the same process could potentially start a fire if the light-focusing occurred over dried-out vegetation, but their results were mixed. While fires are theoretically possible, there are some natural factors that make them less likely.

"The likelihood [of a fire starting] is reduced as the water drops should evaporate before this, so these claims should be treated with a grain of salt," concluded Horvath.

*Nevertheless, the study was clear about what gardeners and poolside loungers have long known. During times when the sun is most intense, it would be wise to keep yourself and your plants dry.*


http://www.mnn.com/your-home/at-home/stories/watering-your-garden-in-the-midday-sun-can-burn-plants[/QUOTE]

Of course you will make the feeble attempt to claim that since the picture of water droplets on top of plant hairs/trichomes is proof of nothing because the picture is not of a cannabis plant. 

But when you do that it will only be one more of your weak attempts to blow a smokescreen to obscure the fact that you have been totally incorrect, just another of your feeble attempts to spin the facts into what you desperately wish they would be, yet one more enervatedineffectual attempt made by you to distract people from the visual proof and just one more of your fruitless futile avoidance techniques.

Are you ready to show some of that extreme humbleness you claimed in a PM to me that you show when proven to be wrong?

The longer you wait and the harder you try your plate of humble pie too eat just keeps getting larger and larger and more and more filled.


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## jack ripa (Apr 12, 2011)

You are an idiot. That's not weed. Try to keep up. You just like to see yourself type.

If you can show me a burn on weed from water, or the water suspended focusing the light...please do.

I am not reading anything you type ever again. You refuse to roll with the punches but instead are stuck in some weird stalemate with your own mind. Sorry for that buddy, have the last word. I am putting you on mental ignore.


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## tip top toker (Apr 12, 2011)

jack ripa said:


> You are an idiot. That's not weed. Try to keep up. You just like to see yourself type.
> 
> If you can show me a burn on weed from water, or the water suspended focusing the light...please do.
> 
> I am not reading anything you type ever again. You refuse to roll with the punches but instead are stuck in some weird stalemate with your own mind. Sorry for that buddy, have the last word. I am putting you on mental ignore.


[youtube]Y7LDlipCmhM[/youtube]


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## cowboylogic (Apr 12, 2011)

Born on a farm, raised on a farm and now run same farm. Row croppers irrigate around the clock. Its not like watering your lawn. A center pivot in a 60 acre field takes aprox. 27 hours to make a full round at a 2inch precip rate...........Ripa to say they water in the evening to reduce evaporation to cool the plants is retarded? Um, evaporation is the cooling process. You are a tool that does not have a clue. Just like you saying box elder bugs eat leaves.......funny stuff.


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## Brick Top (Apr 12, 2011)

jack ripa said:


> You are an idiot. That's not weed.


As I previously stated:


*Of course you will make the feeble attempt to claim that since the picture of water droplets on top of plant hairs/trichomes is proof of nothing because the picture is not of a cannabis plant. 

But when you do that it will only be one more of your weak attempts to blow a smokescreen to obscure the fact that you have been totally incorrect, just another of your feeble attempts to spin the facts into what you desperately wish they would be, yet one more enervated ineffectual attempt made by you to distract people from the visual proof and just one more of your fruitless futile avoidance techniques.

Are you ready to show some of that extreme humbleness you claimed in a PM to me that you show when proven to be wrong?

The longer you wait and the harder you try your plate of humble pie too eat just keeps getting larger and larger and more and more filled. 


One problem you have is one shared by so many others on grow sites. You like, want and need to believe that there is some magical and mystical horticultural disconnect between cannabis plants and any and every other type of plant. I hate to be the one to have to shatter your illusion, but that disconnect you desperately desire to exist does not exist. 

As you yourself stated when you were attempting to rely on farm crops, cannabis plants are not the only plants that have trichomes ... and you were totally correct there. 

But what in the wide, wide world of sports causes you to believe that what does occur to one plant with trichomes does not occur to another plant with trichomes? Is if because cannabis produces cannabinoids and other plants do not? Horticulturally **speaking that is the primary, and in some cases, the singular difference between cannabis plants and some other plants. Only your extreme level of desperation too be correct has created in your mind a non-existent bigger difference. 

You keep desperately attempting to find some way to tap dance around and through both the facts, and also the minefield created by your own damning information, in hopes of creating some miniscule shred of credibility. But you might as well give up your attempts. Each time you try you only make things worse for yourself and push that desired miniscule shred of credibility farther and farther from your grasp. 

All I can say is that anyone who listens to you, who accepts what you have inaccurately been claiming, who believes your delusional beliefs is making a terrible error in judgment. 


*


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## jack ripa (Apr 12, 2011)

You people are so combative. It amazes me that you actually smoke weed.

Still no one has shown the effect on MJ. Not one person.


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## jack ripa (Apr 12, 2011)

Ok, I guess the people here don't like new folks with nonconformist ideas and scientific interest.

I have posted two very serious questions the past few days with no responses. I have also tried to help as many people as possible since I have been here. I don't always get the answers right and I like to be corrected. I feel like I did my best to contribute and have met with nothing but anger and insult. So, bye RIU. I will take my contributions somewhere where people like to learn new things and help people with problems. I can't help y'all with your need to pile on though.

Good to know. Never again. Peace and good luck to you all. I guess I will remove my grow journal and fuck ya all, you don't get to see what I do.


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## tip top toker (Apr 12, 2011)

Bye bye then. I'm not even sure why you're still talking in this thread, you've already admired that it happens, even to the extent that you were sure it happens (your words, not mine)... so what's the issue?


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## Brick Top (Apr 12, 2011)

jack ripa said:


> Still no one has shown the effect on MJ. Not one person.



So that means that for all your wasted time and efforts you totally failed to supply proof that it does not happen like you have attempted to claim you have. 

Cool.


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## Brick Top (Apr 12, 2011)

jack ripa said:


> Ok, I guess the people here don't like new folks with nonconformist ideas and scientific interest.



What people here do not like are people who claim personal beliefs to be facts and who spread inaccuracies and misconceptions and when proven wrong to to great extents to attempt to cover that fact with a massive smokescreen.

What people like are facts and not propaganda. That is why what you have been claiming has soundly been rejected. 



> *So, bye RIU*


Take your ball and go home if that's what you need to do just because you can't make up the rules the way you want them too be.


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## DrFever (Apr 12, 2011)

jack ripa said:


> You people are so combative. It amazes me that you actually smoke weed.
> 
> Still no one has shown the effect on MJ. Not one person.


 
who says i smoke weed i sell weed ) hell i probably throw more little nuggets away for hash then you make on a good grow )


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## mr.smileyface (Apr 12, 2011)

Plants like it wet in veg. Depending on your humidity, i spray new clones with water and a couple drops of b52 once a day. They loved it. 
Spraying in flower is a no no . There is a window when to spray. Its depends on how strong the mix is to get the burn. Dont spray after week 3.
I always spray before they go off. Dont let water sit on the leaf while under intense light, Its magnified and thats why you get the burn. 
Also over watering and spraying the plant will cause dry crumbly leaves. Its mostly the overwatering part.
I wait a couple days after watering before i spray.


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## Pipe Dream (Apr 12, 2011)

I have definately seen first hand how spraying water can damage your plants. First of all, outdoors there is a lot of other factors to be considered. Like when it rains it is generally cloudy, an outdoor plant is more likely to have less direct lighting because of the angle of the light and because of other things shading it, and there is much more airflow which I would think helps to cool off the water/plant and speed up evaporation. An HID on the other hand is full intensity directly above the plants eminating lots of heat. 

Here's a pic of my plants I vegged. You can't tell that much from the pictures but I was spraying them and as a result I got a lot of yellow leaves. I assure you it was not from being underfed and not really burned as much as the water sitting for too long. I simply stopped spraying them and the growth was all green since. Also, I sprayed down some plants after I pollinated them and put them back under the light and have some burns on my leafs from that too. Now I'm not saying spraying your plants is bad, I've done it plenty in the past with no adverse effects, but it's not always beneficial and can lead to problems if your not careful. I saw someone the other day built a shade for his light so he could spray his plants, I would recommend something similar if you want to make it rain.


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## ChubbySoap (Apr 13, 2011)

yes...well....
either a newb on his first grow (with a habit for killing indoor plants in general) has the fattest trichs ever....

OR

the silly fool just wandered into his grow room and lazily misted his gals with distilled water and a whole shit load of trichs have tiny sheaths of water covering them making them look huge

i suspect the pistils holding those tiny beads at multiple elevations will give away the whole game...but, i leave the choice to the reader.


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## TheOrganic (Apr 14, 2011)

Ya this guy went the wrong way about this.
I have burned my seedling with just plain old RO water(and overwater) because of light and temps were 76 max with sentinel controller so ya.
And like said before outdoor you can not compare to indoor to many factors sunny shady cloudy humidity breeze strong wind shit it goes on and on.
But many people soak the shit out of there vegging plant and works great for them all depends but for me I just keep humidity up 60-70 on veg.


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## jcu27 (May 12, 2011)

Alright from personal experience, almost about everytime I water my plants I get water on the leaves and guess what those leaves get burnt. Whenever they haven't been water all the leaves besides the ones that got water on them before are fine. EXPERIENCE > some random article.


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## jcu27 (May 12, 2011)

Here is a picture of one of the leaves that got water on it. Btw the plants are under 400w HPS in flowering, but this did happen in veg also when water would get on the leaves. So jack the ripa you should just hush your fingers if you don't know what you're typing about. Only times this has happened is when water has got on it.


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## skunky33 (Dec 15, 2012)

ChubbySoap said:


> well...at least you're honest....you just want to argue.
> every one i produce you will match with a patriot missile...okie dokie.
> 
> the problem here is that you alone get to decide what valid proof consists of, yet you seem to have no obligation to set out on the table your defining criteria beforehand...
> ...


Every horticulturalist knows this is a myth. It's obvious and total bullshit. Give me a break. If it were true you'd have burn marks all over your body every time you went swimming on a hot day. 115 degree day in Vegas my sister waters her plants, they don't burn from water never have.


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## Saldaw (Dec 15, 2012)

water droplets on a smooth surface, such as maple or ginkgo leaves, do not cause leaf burn.However, floating fern leaves that have small wax hairs are susceptible to leaf burn as hairs on the surface holds water droplets in focus acting as a magnifying glass.


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## Dankfactory (Dec 15, 2012)

The calcium and magnesium in hard water Tap is responsible for most of the spotting on misted plants. You should _always _use RO or distilled if youre going to mist( utterly pointless procedure btw unless theyre unrooted cuts). If you have other issues such as rust spotting or leaf crumble on the edges then you have a different issue and need to re-assess your growing skills and go back to square one: the basics.


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## Trousers (Dec 16, 2012)

If this were true, my lawn would be toast.


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## Dankfactory (Dec 16, 2012)

Trousers said:


> If this were true, my lawn would be toast.


Lol. When's the last time you heard someone say that their lawn was locked out? If Cannabis was as resilient and easy to grow, an eighth wouldn't be 50 bucks.


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## Trousers (Dec 16, 2012)

I see yellow lawns that need iron all the time
cannabis is resilient and easy to grow

an 1/8th costs $25 here
$1 if you grow


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## colonuggs (Dec 16, 2012)

Some grows I have to treat for pm while im in flower...usually towards the end.

I have to spray my entire plant with water and greencure or h202 and water.

I set the plants under the lights to dry right after I spray the plants.... the leaves are dry within minutes.

no burns to the leaves at all.


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## stumpjumper (Dec 17, 2012)

I've never had water cause leaf burns and I get my leaves wet a lot..


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## Fruitbat (Dec 18, 2012)

Water droplets do not burn your weed leaves. Take a trip through Ag country and take a look at all the top watering being done in the suns evil rays of doom. Farmers wouldn't do it if it burned their plants. 

In fact, I just watered my plants that are under a 1000w MH. There are water droplets on the leaves. When I go back in there there will not be one burn spot on them. 

My outdoor sat under 100+ degree weather. Watered 'em. Not a burn to be found. 

It's a myth.


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## facemelter (Dec 19, 2012)

Lol you cant compair outdoor to indoor, espically a hardend off staiva. water dropplets will cause burn to young leafs on clone if ur not carful. Once your plant is acclemated to intense light your less liky to cause burns from water droppest. My og kush getts all pissy if you get her wet under HID so it can be strain specific too. Some planst or just hardier than others.



Fruitbat said:


> Water droplets do not burn your weed leaves. Take a trip through Ag country and take a look at all the top watering being done in the suns evil rays of doom. Farmers wouldn't do it if it burned their plants.
> 
> In fact, I just watered my plants that are under a 1000w MH. There are water droplets on the leaves. When I go back in there there will not be one burn spot on them.
> 
> ...


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## Fruitbat (Dec 20, 2012)

Read my post again. This time very carefully.

Droplets do not burn plants, seedlings or otherwise. Outdoor or indoor doesn't matter. 

BTW, the Earth isn't flat, mermaids aren't real and the world ain't ending.


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## Dankfactory (Dec 21, 2012)

Trousers said:


> I see yellow lawns that need iron all the time
> cannabis is resilient and easy to grow
> 
> an 1/8th costs $25 here
> $1 if you grow


As a grower, I'm stoked I live here in the land of $50, and even $60 eighters then. ( market value since the early 90's. You know: Terminator 2, Smashing Pumpkins, Pogs, Danny Tanner& Uncle Jessie).. I would cringe upon giving away my offerings for an unworthy 25 dollars.


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## unknown1231 (Dec 22, 2012)

jack ripa said:


> Lets settle this once and for all. In nature it rains. That water sits on leaves and the sun comes out. Sometimes very brilliantly. Plants in nature don't just burn the hell up from this. I postulate that this is a myth and if I am to believe I am wrong, please, someone show me some actual evidence.
> 
> I am willing to admit when I am wrong but this idea is so out there...
> 
> ...


How about water burns from TAP water that contains large amounts of minerals AKA hard water? I would think this may have an effect. Water that falls from the sky is typically not loaded with sediment from rocks.


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## Fruitbat (Dec 22, 2012)

That would not be burns. That would be residue left after the water evaporates.


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## jack's soil grow (Dec 22, 2012)

you can burn leaves easy, if you get water on the leaves under a hps, with little or no air flow, and high humidty


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## Fruitbat (Dec 23, 2012)

Bullshit. Period. That not a water droplet issue, that is heat stress.


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## UncleBuck (Dec 23, 2012)

people, this is a very serious issue. do not get your plants wet in the midday sun or you will face consequences. and old fart sniffer like brick top simply can not be wrong.

below is a picture of a plant i watered in the midday sun. the results were tragic.

*




*


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## jack's soil grow (Dec 23, 2012)

Fruitbat said:


> Bullshit. Period. That not a water droplet issue, that is heat stress.


so I have heat stress ?, and this is an odd leaf half way up the plant 

There no fan blowing on this side of the plant and the humity was high after spraying the leaves, a few weeks ago, next day after spraying the plant, this was on the odd leaf 
This is how the plants looking now


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 23, 2012)

.....and I always flush my lawn before smoking it.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 23, 2012)

Read it and weep.....

http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda Chalker-Scott/Horticultural Myths_files/Myths/Leaf scorch.pdf

Read ALL of them and cry yourself to death - http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~Linda Chalker-Scott/Horticultural Myths_files/index.html

You know, Troll-It-Up seems to be the myth capital of pot sites. A mod should start a forum here to discuss these myths. We have one at a site I post at and it contains some of the best info for noobs you can find. 

Uncle Ben


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## jack's soil grow (Dec 23, 2012)

we have diffent points here 
I am talking about water drops on leaves under a hps and you show me a post with "watering plants on a hot sunny day will scorch their leaves"

I have never grown weed outside, so can't comment on this 

my tap water, ec is high (salt content) and in veg I spray the leaves 

I have seen your growers and I am far from a noob, if you need any help growing in soil, I will be happy to help


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 23, 2012)

Now let me get this straight. Water has a cooling affect but you still get burn while you spray with water that has a very high TDS????? Gotta question, why are you spraying your plants with water in the first place?



jack's soil grow said:


> I have seen your growers and I am far from a noob, if you need any help growing in soil, I will be happy to help


I'll be sure and consult you the next time I run into trouble.


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## jack's soil grow (Dec 23, 2012)

Uncle Ben said:


> Now let me get this straight. Water has a cooling affect but you still get burn while you spray with water that has a very high TDS????? Gotta question, why are you spraying your plants with water in the first place?
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be sure and consult you the next time I run into trouble.


good question, I spay the plant couple of times in veg but its not needed, in the winter ( live in uk), it does increase my humidity a lot, for a few hours, but my humidty sits round 60 lights on (24), in veg so all good 

The main time it helps is in the summer when temps hit 30-35c and humidty round 25, spraying the plants and turning a swamp cooler on, brings down the temp a little and increases the humidty loads.

can't see you getting in trouble


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## Fruitbat (Dec 23, 2012)

Shit man, I gotta go rearrange my magikal weed crystals, electrify my roots and start the flushing process ASAP! Oh shit my plants are on fire because I got some water droplets on them under my HID! Yo, I heard if I water with beer the budz will get me drunk and stoned. I also like to drink bong water. 

Fo' Shizzle!


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## jack's soil grow (Dec 23, 2012)

tell you what, get a water droplets on the hid bulb, and your plants could be on fire, be carefull.
I am not a nood, you will work this out very quick if you keep reading my posts


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## Dankfactory (Dec 23, 2012)

This topic is spiraling into the depths of asinine absurdity. As Hansel from Zoolander said it best, The results are in amigo, what's left to ponder?
a: it's beneficial to foliar spray your unrooted cuts for nutrient uptake until they acquire roots to serve this purpose. 
b: once they establish roots it is utterly futile to foliar spray unless you are experiencing lockout, and even then, your would be harvest is already grossly compromised.
c: water droplets from a foliage spray may or may not cause burn spots, or leave a residue. There are so many other variables at play such as temp, type of water,RH etc from one persons grow to another. They can however leave calcium despots which clog the stomata, hindering optimal photosynthesis, so again, if you're not seeing burn marks, rest assured that you're efficiency isn't what it could be, however minimal the effect may be. I personally don't enjoy adding workload and performing pointless tasks in my garden such as foliar spraying for nourishment since my roots are working round the clock for this purpose.


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## lassenoutdoor18 (Jul 24, 2022)

I grow at 4500 elevation, and have days of 115+ fahrenheit more than not. A few times in the past 12 years I've taken my 100 ppm creek water and sprayed my plants down in the middle of the day and they fucking hated it. Caused wilting, caused sun spots, and generally over-all made the plants stressed the fuck out. 

I don't think anyone here is calculating in the sun head index paired with elevation. Not a single person has spoken to the shear differences in environmental factors.

I just don't do it in the middle of the day anymore, morning or evenings only. If the method works for you in the middle of the day, then do it. But for those of us who have watched it hurt our plants in real-time right infront of us, where just not gunna do it in the middle of the day lol. I can wait till the morning or evening.


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## Budzbuddha (Jul 24, 2022)

Ummm dead thread - use ouija board


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