# sugar



## g-13 (Jan 31, 2007)

has anyone ever heard of using sugar mixed with the nutes. if son can you use it in hydro(ebb&flow)?


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## fdd2blk (Jan 31, 2007)

i use turbanado unrefined cane sugar in my soil. one tablespoon per gallon of water. DO NOT use white sugar.


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## g-13 (Jan 31, 2007)

what does it really do for the plants


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## fdd2blk (Jan 31, 2007)

i don't know. i just noticed you are hydro, i'm soil. it's supposed to help flower growth. fatter, thicker, tighter.


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## g-13 (Jan 31, 2007)

can i use that in my hydro setup


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## fdd2blk (Feb 1, 2007)

there are actual products that have sugar and other sythesizers(?) in it. one that i know of is called "sweet". it does attract ants. but i think they may make it for hydro.


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## potroast (Feb 1, 2007)

Yeah, Sweet is mostly Cane Sugar and Citric Acid. Together they do some good things in your hydro reservoir. I don't know about soil. But some folks use molasses in both hydro and soil. There's a good thread on molasses here, search for it.

HTH


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## Tokecrazy (Feb 2, 2007)

I havent use sweet , but I think molasses is like carbo load.The molasses is backstrap molasses or unsulphured molasses only.But I wouldnt use it in hydro.the carbo load is carbohydrates for the flowering cycle.Molasses is too.In soil yes in hydro no. Peace


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## Wigmo (Feb 2, 2007)

could i use natural brown sugar?


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## fdd2blk (Feb 2, 2007)

Wigmo said:


> could i use natural brown sugar?


sounds right. cane sugar? unrefined? that's the stuff. i get a pound at trader joe's for $2.99.


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## Wigmo (Feb 3, 2007)

should i mix it in with my nutrients and feed it to them that way??


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## fdd2blk (Feb 3, 2007)

i add 1 tablespoon per gallon of water every other watering. once again though i'm in soil.


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## videoman40 (Feb 4, 2007)

There was an article in high times, it claims that adding sugar for the final 6 weeks will add 20% to yr grows weight.
I wonder if I could do that in soil too?


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## JordanTheGreat (May 28, 2008)

man... i have been getting some nasty replies for saying that sugar works for me. i know it does, but i dont know exactly why


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## bongjockey (May 29, 2008)

You didn't get nasty, you got science.


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## JordanTheGreat (May 29, 2008)

all i got was back talk, every body says sugar is the killer of hydro...and the shit works for me just fine, i want to see sumbodies shit that shows the injurious nature of sugar to plants in a water culture environment. no one, not even you bong guy, has been kind enough to tell why im full of shit instead of just telling me that im full of shit...so im still waiting


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## JTSBossMan (May 29, 2008)

I use a ton of molasses in DWC, my plants are doing just fine(well, they were a few hours ago... we'll see when the lights come on!). Mind you, I don't just dump sugar in my reservoir, I'm using Carboload and Floranectar I believe.


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## JordanTheGreat (May 29, 2008)

im pretty sure whats in those is the same thing thats in most of those additives....cane sugar


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## bongjockey (Jun 13, 2008)

'back talk' is a comment coming from someone who thinks they're always right and in control. You're neither, Jordan. 

Hope your mould and bacteria likes the sugar feed. Your plants won't.


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## JordanTheGreat (Jun 13, 2008)

ay pussy, im tired of you alright? plain and simple. act smart somewhere else sucka, i dont care for your opinion. and it aint my fault u cant figure out how to utilize sugar in a hydro system without keeping other things in control, thats a personal problem you gotta deal with. so take that shit to jenny jones or sum


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## MisterNiceGuy (Sep 23, 2008)

hehe
I use brown sugar, seems to be fine. But another grower turned me to molasses for better results and I will try that soon when I get the time.
f-in pussys eh


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 23, 2008)

JordanTheGreat said:


> ay pussy, im tired of you alright? plain and simple. act smart somewhere else sucka, i dont care for your opinion. and it aint my fault u cant figure out how to utilize sugar in a hydro system without keeping other things in control, thats a personal problem you gotta deal with. so take that shit to jenny jones or sum


bongjockey is neither a pussy nor wrong. Plants can't use sugar as a nutrient, that simple. 

So, you a bad muthafucka? Come beat me up if you can get your hand off your prick long enough.


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## JordanTheGreat (Sep 23, 2008)

this guy too...what the fuck is it about you dumbass smart people. first off, when in the fuck did i say that plants use sugar as a nutrient? and second, they use the shit whether you can see how or not...plants work all day to make sugar to grow. much as one would work all day to make money to eat. sugar for growth, money to eat...if one was given money he wouldnt have to work as hard to eat the same right? just as a plant that doesnt have to manufacture its own food can use more energy to grow... i dont know what it is that makes you assholes right,no one can tell me how im wrong.so to both of you pussies, have a great day. if u ever recognize me in public make sure and stop me, i would love to pick some of the greatest minds of the twentieth century...hehe. before you wanna tell me im wrong pick up a book and show me son, dont get all butthurt cuz i would scrape u and ur boyfriend


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 23, 2008)

Yeah, what the fuck is it about us 'smart people?' 

I'll tell ya what it is- we can tell just what a small, two-bit loser you are by how fast you lose your cool and how easy it is to get your goat. You're so out of control you can't wipe your own arse let alone threaten proper fist in the face violence. 

When you grow into that training bra, come play with the big boys.


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## Anc777 (Sep 23, 2008)

it mentions somthing about using sugar and shows a picture of two identical buds one using sugar and one with out in the book Marijuana Horticulture Growers Bible By Jorge Cervantes


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 23, 2008)

Which version of the book & what page? 

Plants _*still*_ can't use sugars as food and not a *soul* can produce any proper peer-reviewed botanical science that says they can. I double-dog dare ya. Go searching ye olde Google.


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## potroast (Sep 24, 2008)

The picture is on page 290. The caption says yield increased 20 percent by adding sugar for the last 6 weeks.

Here is what Jorge says about sugar:



> Molasses, honey, and other sugars are said to increase soil microbials, enhance regrowth, and make the plant's use of nitrogen more effective. Molasses will raise the energy level of the plant and acts as a mild fungicide. Molasses is the "secret ingredient" in many organic fertilizers.



HTH


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## fitzyno1 (Sep 24, 2008)

When you were at school, did your teacher have to explaining things to you in the same manner, as you just did? Cause i'm sure if i had to explain what you just did, i could put it across with a bit of manners.

EDIT: that statement was for a previous post that has now been deleted.


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 24, 2008)

Hey Jordan, if you weren't such a girls' blouse, you'd be over here swinging fists. C'mon pussy, change that tampon and have a go. 'Course, you couldn't find your arse with both hands and a torch, so I won't leave the light on for ya. 



potroast said:


> The picture is on page 290. The caption says yield increased 20 percent by adding sugar for the last 6 weeks.
> 
> Here is what Jorge says about sugar:
> 
> ...


'are said'? Sounds like a rumour.

'raise the energy level of the plant'? This is *science?
*
'acts as a mild fungicide'? Wait, at the beginning of the 'graf, we were FEEDING soil (remember that S word...) microbes. Can't have it both ways. 

I'll reiterate my previous statements about JC being more writer than grower. He takes commentary from individual growers and includes such in his books. This is NOT peer-reviewed botanical science, this is Chinese whispers. I want some *real *science that confirms these statements. JC hasn't included any.

I have lots of respect for JC, have met him a couple of times and had brief chats, but the guy is a cannabis book writer, not a full-time grower nor a horticulturalist or botanist.


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## JordanTheGreat (Sep 25, 2008)

I double dog dare you to provide me with any eveidence that contests my theory, ur just full of hot air man...


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 25, 2008)

You have as much evidence to support the use of sugars as plant food as anyone has to support use of petrol as a fertiliser. Do I need to disprove the use of petrol as a fertiliser, too?


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## JordanTheGreat (Sep 25, 2008)

see, you don't even know why you think sugar is bad for our plants...

The following is an article I found on molasses and its use with plants. Thought others might find it useful, I did.

&#8220;Molasses and Plant Carbohydrates&#8221; 
Sugars relating to plant functions for maximum economic production. 
Texas Plant & Soil Lab, Inc., Texas Plant & Soil Lab (Home) 

Environmental factors that affect when and how much sugar to use: 
a. How much nitrate is in the soil, and plant sap (petiole test). 
b. Soil moisture conditions. 
c. Sunlight intensity. 
d. Temperature. 
e. Wind 
f. Fruiting stage / load 
g. Growth / vigor [shade lower leaves] 

The right amount at the right time can improve fruiting and produce normal 
plant growth with less attraction for disease and insects. 

Needed for healthy plants - fruit production - plant development & 
maturity. 
Roots take nutrients from the soil and transport them up the stalk thru the 
petiole (stem) to the leaves where the sunlight aids the production of
photosynthates (sugars are not the ONLY product of photosynthesis)
carbohydrates (C, H & O), principally glucose (C6H12O6) and then other sugars and photosynthates are formed. 

Plant Sugars and other photosynthates are first translocated (boron is essential to the translocation) to a fruiting site. If fruit is not available, the sugars, along with excess nitrates, spur the rapid vegetative growth of the plant at the expense of creating fruiting bodies (first sink) for the storage of the sugars.

Once the proper balance of environmental factors (heat units, light intensity, soil moisture, nutrient balance, etc) are met, the fruiting buds form and then fruit formation gets the first crack at the sugar supply. 

Any excess sugars are then translocated to the number two sink, (growing terminals,) to speed their growth. The left-over sugars, etc. then go to the number 3 sink, (the roots,) to aid their growth. Here the new root hairs take up nutrients to help continue the cycle of sugar and other photosynthate production, fruiting, growth of terminals and roots. 

ADDED SUGARS CAN AID THE PLANT IN SEVERAL WAYS: 
- MOLASSES is probably the best outside source of many sugars, such as table sugar, corn syrup and several more complex sugars such as polysaccharides found in humus products. 
- Sugar can be added to the soil in irrigation water, drip & pivot being the most effective. 

In the soil it can: 

- Feed microbes to stimulate the conversion of nitrates to the more efficient NH2 form of N to synthesize protein more directly by the plants. 

- The roots can directly absorb some of the sugars into the sap stream to supplement the leaf supply to fruit where it is most needed, and ALSO directly feed the roots for continued productive growth.

- This ADDED sugar can also help initiate fruiting buds in a steady-slow 
fashion while maintaining normal growth. 

-EXCESSIVE amounts of ADDED SUGARS applied foliarly can shock the 
plant resulting in shortened growth internodes, increased leaf maturity & initiation of excess fruiting sites. This can be a short term effect lasting only a few days.

Pollination, soil moisture, nutrient balance and sufficiency as well as adequate light for photosynthate production decide how much of the induced fruit can mature.


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 25, 2008)

These jokers in Texas were the ones who a few years ago were spruiking adding sugar beet processing wastes to soils. Could have something to do with the amount of sugar beet cultivation that goes on in TX. 

Did you notice that all their commentary is confined to feeding microbes IN SOIL? 

Plants can't use sugars as nutrients. Just because the plant produces glucose as a result of the photosynthetic process to build cellulose does NOT mean that it can make use of much more complex sugars like sucrose. 

I can find similarly people who say you can run a piston engined car on water and that global warming is a hoax. Their opinions are in the extreme minority... and it's mainly because they're wrong.


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## JordanTheGreat (Sep 25, 2008)

like i said, ur full of it son... u cant even give me one shred of eveidence that im wrong... you are rockin me with that intellect of yours Al


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 25, 2008)

You're the one saying sugar is useful as a nutrient. 

Prove it. 

You haven't because you can't.


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## JordanTheGreat (Sep 25, 2008)

iss koo baby, i aint gotta prove shit to you square...you already know you're full of shit. tell me that any of the information i have provided lacks validity and actually prove it...you can't. its koo, i'll let you reign supreme in this forum. its prolly all u got, besides all that weed of course. psh, loser...


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## MisterNiceGuy (Sep 25, 2008)

this thread makes me laugh, it just you two arguing back and forth
i have to go with al though, weed uses sugar to convert into THC, but it produces this sugar threw photosynthesis and other processes. it can't uptake sugar threw it's roots
may be wrong, but what i'v learned


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 25, 2008)

JordanTheGreat said:


> iss koo baby, i aint gotta prove shit


You can't prove that sugars can be used as nutrients because your claim is false. 

Suck it up, Jordan 'The Great'.


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## JordanTheGreat (Sep 26, 2008)

you listen as well as a fourteen year old...


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 26, 2008)

Ah, I see you're back to run your yap but still can't prove your case. 

C'mon, where's the proof?


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## JordanTheGreat (Sep 26, 2008)

u cant disprove it bruh, so i dont care if your ears dont work...im done with you


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 26, 2008)

Oh, does that mean you're leaving without proving your point?







*MAXIMUM FAIL.* 

Goodbye, loser.


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## JordanTheGreat (Sep 27, 2008)

u got a big mouth when its behind a computer screen...i dont know who you are where i gotta prove shit to you anyway. i hope it makes u feel better, as for me...im poppin bottles tonite sucka so have fun blogging square!


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 27, 2008)

You made a claim that plants can use sugar as a nutrient. When challenged, you could not support your claim. You still haven't proven your claim, keep saying you're 'done with [me]' but you keep coming back.







*EPIC FAIL.*


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## Zhu (Sep 27, 2008)

The plants can't use sugars. HIGH TIMES BO# 29 2001 Talks about how molasses and sugars are just a catalyst for growth of microbials and just stimulate biological growths in the soil adding back what the soil had before being processed. Grinding up a mushroom and jamming it into the soil or even a truffle would have the same effect. Last time I ate a mushroom it didnt taste very sweet. They both have pretty much the same effect and that is biologic inoculum. Also again they have nothing to do with the plant k thx.


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## n00604173 (Dec 12, 2008)

what about pure florida cane syrup? i have that and some organic unrefined vermont maple syrup. i was thinkign of mixing those and some honey togeher and doing a little per gallon for flushing.


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## Bullethead21 (Dec 13, 2008)

It cant use sugar in the way that is expressed by certain posters in this thread..I wont mention any names as I dont want in the middle of this one for sure....lol

Its like our bodies for example..we NEED blood to live, grow and thrive...our bodies are full of blood and even produce blood. We could not live without it.....Does this mean if we drink blood its healthy and will help us grow?? I think not as our body CANT use it that way and doesnt work that way......same thing with just adding sugar to plant.....

There is no need to argue about this point as it can be proven with Science.....


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## nunof (Dec 13, 2008)

I'm just gonna say this. I know Al is right....to a degree. Sugar is a SOIL ONLY product. It helps feed "beneficial" microbes that live in soil. These microbes do not live in a hydroponic culture, so a hydro setup doesn't benefit from adding sugar. With that said, Jordan is the only person here who was either able to, or willing to try and bring an outside "scientific" source to the table to prove his point (even if he was wrong about hydro and sugar), rep up for the research. Lets all pack a bowl, roll a joint, vaporize, or do what you have to do to sit back and relax. Peace out!


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## trentcannon (Jan 8, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> You made a claim that plants can use sugar as a nutrient. When challenged, you could not support your claim. You still haven't proven your claim, keep saying you're 'done with [me]' but you keep coming back.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Argument over. I declare a winner.


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## peach (Jan 8, 2009)

http://www.biology-online.org/biology-forum/about10736.html

Plants either osmotically absorb things or actively pump them using transporters - the second is more important if the thing being transported is already at a higher concentration in the cells than it is outside (since nothing goes uphill without being pushed). 

One guy in this thread mentions that there are active sucrose transporters in the root. That may be true, but I know there are active transporters on the vacuoles within the cells and he may be thinking of those.

In osmosis, you have pores in the cell membrane that are the right size for the molecules to drift through. The cells will open and close them, or use energy to pump things through them. Most of those are for tiny things like water or salts. Sucrose is a big molecule compared to them.

If the plant took up sucrose by drift osmosis, for most plants that'd mean they lost sucrose to the soil with it leaking out the roots. If they actively take it up, that'd mean spending sucrose to get sucrose? And probably spending more than you're getting. 

There are only two possibilities I can think of.

The cells pack sucrose into the vacuoles, allowing it to drift diffuse into the cells from the soil (but it's probably also be doing the same thing out of the phloem as well).

Or, the plant spends nutrients it has in abundance to actively pump sucrose in - that also sounds a bit suspect. Plants generally never do anything they don't need to, like taking up one nutrient on the off chance it might to use it to pump some sucrose later - while that nutrient is sitting inside the plant at higher than needed concentrations, it'll probably need energy to get it there or be interfering with other cell processes.

I've done quite a lot of biology about plants at degree level and never heard anything about sucrose uptake.

The only way this is getting proven for sure is with a bunch of separate side by sides.


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## Consciousness420 (Jan 18, 2009)

yepper.. great explanation and break-down of the science above...
its a common myth that people think that sucrose is directly absorbed through the roots, increasing yield. It is strictly used for soil to enrich the complex micro-environment of the soil which in turn enriches the life of the plant by allowing easily accesible simple nutrients to be more accessible in the soil. You can put sucrose directly in your hydro system, and it will NOT harm the plant at all BUT the plant probably just wont hardly use any of it - why? --> if there already exists a balance in the plant between energy used for plant growth (above soil) versus the mass of the root system, then it already has stored sucrose which it created and stored them as complex sugars (such as sucrose) as starch in the roots, it will not 'uptake' any more because of the details explained in that previous post.. HOWEVER, if some critical change has caused the plant to be in a life threatening situation - like chopping more than 40% of the root system all of the sudden, and the current rate of glucose production plus down-conversion of sucrose in the roots to glucose given to the plant to sustain life is not enough (to support the vegitation above soil), the plant will begin sacrificing veg material until the balance is restored - so, if and only if in this scenario the plant has direct access to sucrose, the roots WILL absorb it and immediately down convert to glucose in an attempt to save as much veg material as possible (though, Ive never actually tried this so have no supporting experimental data - just theory) but if we are all talking about an already 'energy-balanced' plant then saying that extra sucrose will be absorbed is just dead wrong.


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