# Is calcium carbonate more easily assimilated by cannabis than calcium nitrate?



## Beachwalker (Dec 31, 2018)

-thanks


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## rkymtnman (Dec 31, 2018)

and a similar question:

is it true that well water has molecules of CaCO3 that are too big to be used by the plant? i've read that a few places yet can't find proof if it's true or not.


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## xtsho (Dec 31, 2018)

No.

Calcium nitrate is typically made from nitric acid and calcium carbonate/limestone. Both provide calcium and nitrogen in different amounts.


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## dubekoms (Jan 1, 2019)

Calcium nitrate is more easily absorbed. You can add amino acids to calcium carbonate which chelates it and makes it more water soluble.


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## churchhaze (Jan 6, 2019)

No.


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## Capn-Crunch (Jan 7, 2019)

Nope


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## Dr. Who (Jan 8, 2019)

While the plant takes each at differing rates.

Ca Carbonate is a better buffer of pH then the Ca Nitrate.

This is important when building soils or in the use of RO water...
Plants grown using Ca Carbonate do just fine vs, Ca Nitrate.
Besides, Carbonate does not up the N as much......I find that, important!


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## SSGrower (Jan 8, 2019)

What about calcium chloride?
Ive been using pickle crisp when I want Ca without N.


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## Beachwalker (Jan 8, 2019)

Dr. Who said:


> While the plant takes each at differing rates.
> 
> Ca Carbonate is a better buffer of pH then the Ca Nitrate.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input, the reason I asked this question is I've noticed a lot more issues in ffof since I switched to the the calcium nitrate, I'm needing to use a lot more of it too


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## Dr. Who (Jan 8, 2019)

Beachwalker said:


> Thanks for your input, the reason I asked this question is I've noticed a lot more issues in ffof since I switched to the the calcium nitrate, I'm needing to use a lot more of it too


That exactly makes 100% sense to me!

I always amend FF soils with Dolomite lime. The reason is it's Ca carbonate based for the pH and has a pretty high available Mg level.

I have found over the years, that FF soils tend to run low on buffering ability and available Mg later in the run...

I generally add it at a good heaping handful per bag......so around a half cup +... rounded half cup if you like ( I just stick my hand in the bag of dolo and sprinkle it out over the FF soil in a kiddie pool and mix it in...)

Soil building is still done in a cement mixer.


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## Beachwalker (Jan 8, 2019)

Dr. Who said:


> That exactly makes 100% sense to me!
> 
> I always amend FF soils with Dolomite lime. The reason is it's Ca carbonate based for the pH and has a pretty high available Mg level.
> 
> ...


Yep just ordered & going to start putting dolomite in the mix and cut down or eliminate the liquid cal-mag all together if possible, though I never had this issue with the GH Cali Magic. Thanks again for the info


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## RemoChemo (Jan 9, 2019)

rkymtnman said:


> and a similar question:
> 
> is it true that well water has molecules of CaCO3 that are too big to be used by the plant? i've read that a few places yet can't find proof if it's true or not.



I can’t scientifically say yes but, with certainty I can say my friend has no issues. His water is 300+ppm well water and never has to add cal/mag and I am have around 70ppm well water. I have to add cal/mag or I see deficiencies.

I hope that helps.
To me I would say the molecule size is absorbable by the plant.
Also, he uses only the basic 3 of FOX FARM nutrients in soil-less mix and I use JR Peters 5-12-26 and 15-0-0 in hydro 
I get 5 lbs under 8- 315watt CMH lights and he uses 12- 600 watt HPS and he’s lucky to get 4 lbs. 
he does have a 3 yr ongoing mite issue. Guy just doesn’t have luck and nothing he does ever gets rid of them. Sad cause I always want some clones of his but wouldn’t dare bring one home.


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## oldbeancounter (Mar 19, 2019)

Dr. Who said:


> While the plant takes each at differing rates.
> 
> Ca Carbonate is a better buffer of pH then the Ca Nitrate.
> 
> ...


I have been using calcium carbonate and wondered how much per gallon or Liter you suggest I safely might continue to use in soil which is HP pro mix and mega crop version 2?
So far no problems I am mid flower some they seem ok was adding say teaspoon per 5 gallon water once a week for 6 plants I am trying it on vers bottled nutes like cal-mag(sooner spend money on seeds and make my own calcium/mag tp use top up/maintenance under LED high intensity lighting if and when needed.
.Also I use epsom salts tablespoon once or twice month during flower/veg.
I do PH all my water, nutes etc.
RO system comes next hopefully, for now town water it is.


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## Dr. Who (Mar 19, 2019)

oldbeancounter said:


> I have been using calcium carbonate and wondered how much per gallon or Liter you suggest I safely might continue to use in soil which is HP pro mix and mega crop version 2?
> So far no problems I am mid flower some they seem ok was adding say teaspoon per 5 gallon water once a week for 6 plants I am trying it on vers bottled nutes like cal-mag(sooner spend money on seeds and make my own calcium/mag tp use top up/maintenance under LED high intensity lighting if and when needed.
> .Also I use epsom salts tablespoon once or twice month during flower/veg.
> I do PH all my water, nutes etc.
> RO system comes next hopefully, for now town water it is.


What is the packaged concentration % of the CaCarb?
Your sure not going to hurt anything at 1 tsp per 5 gallons.....

You kinda want to shoot for making a Ca solution at 5% and adding 5 ml per gallon...


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## Beachwalker (Mar 19, 2019)

Dr. Who said:


> What is the packaged concentration % of the CaCarb?
> Your sure not going to hurt anything at 1 tsp per 5 gallons.....
> 
> You kinda want to shoot for making a Ca solution at 5% and adding 5 ml per gallon...





xtsho said:


> No.
> 
> Calcium nitrate is typically made from nitric acid and calcium carbonate/limestone. Both provide calcium and nitrogen in different amounts.


Are you familiar with this product? I'd like to mix it in my ffof soil then add Epsom salt to my feed and eliminate bottled cal-mag supplements. Or would gypsum be a better choice? I also use Dolomite lime as directed -thanks in advance for any info

https://www.amazon.com/Down-Earth-6-Pound-Oyster-Shell/dp/B001B2W8BA/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=Garden+calcium&qid=1553026592&s=gateway&sr=8-3


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## rkymtnman (Mar 19, 2019)

Beachwalker said:


> Are you familiar with this product? I'd like to mix it in my ffof soil then add Epsom salt to my feed and eliminate bottled cal-mag supplements. I also use Dolomite lime as directed -thanks in advance for any info
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Down-Earth-6-Pound-Oyster-Shell/dp/B001B2W8BA/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=Garden+calcium&qid=1553026592&s=gateway&sr=8-3
> 
> ...


friends of ours give their chickens that stuff. makes the egg shells stronger. tons of Ca.


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## Dr. Who (Mar 21, 2019)

rkymtnman said:


> friends of ours give their chickens that stuff. makes the egg shells stronger. tons of Ca.



From time to time here too.


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## Dr. Who (Mar 21, 2019)

Beachwalker said:


> Are you familiar with this product? I'd like to mix it in my ffof soil then add Epsom salt to my feed and eliminate bottled cal-mag supplements. Or would gypsum be a better choice? I also use Dolomite lime as directed -thanks in advance for any info
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Down-Earth-6-Pound-Oyster-Shell/dp/B001B2W8BA/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=Garden+calcium&qid=1553026592&s=gateway&sr=8-3
> 
> ...



Good stuff to be sure. I use it and other Ca source's when building soil.....

For you, and in FFOF.......Simply add a nice heaping 1/2 - 3/4 cup Dolomite Lime to that whole bag of OF.....You see, OF is light on both Ca and Mg over time. This advise will fix that.

You might notice a change on how FFOF runs, from time to time.
This is due to them changing locations of the main source of the mining operations around the country. One soil source is never the same as the last, or the next. Generally it stays pretty close as they adjust what they add to be uniform. Once in a while they can be a little off on something......

I always added more lava stone or perlite. Which ever you prefer.


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## Beachwalker (Mar 21, 2019)

Dr. Who said:


> Good stuff to be sure. I use it and other Ca source's when building soil.....
> 
> For you, and in FFOF.......Simply add a nice heaping 1/2 - 3/4 cup Dolomite Lime to that whole bag of OF.....You see, OF is light on both Ca and Mg over time. This advise will fix that.
> 
> ...


Pretty much what I'm doing now so I'm going to stay on that path, thank you for the input!


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## oldbeancounter (Mar 21, 2019)

Beachwalker said:


> Are you familiar with this product? I'd like to mix it in my ffof soil then add Epsom salt to my feed and eliminate bottled cal-mag supplements. Or would gypsum be a better choice? I also use Dolomite lime as directed -thanks in advance for any info
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Down-Earth-6-Pound-Oyster-Shell/dp/B001B2W8BA/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=Garden+calcium&qid=1553026592&s=gateway&sr=8-3
> 
> ...


Any idea how long it takes the shell to break down for the plants?
I may go that route as the calcium carbonate I have was just a large bottle of it for bone health etc so it isn't pure so I will go with something I know the contents of, this has other ingredients listed on my bottle of it so going to switch .
Any idea How much of the shell suggested to use say for a 5 gallon pot of promix ?


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## Beachwalker (Mar 21, 2019)

oldbeancounter said:


> Any idea how long it takes the shell to break down for the plants?
> I may go that route as the calcium carbonate I have was just a large bottle of it for bone health etc so it isn't pure so I will go with something I know the contents of, this has other ingredients listed on my bottle of it so going to switch .
> Any idea How much of the shell suggested to use say for a 5 gallon pot of promix ?


I don't, but I use lime which I know breaks down quickly in soil, not sure about Pro mix. they say use one tablespoon lime per gallon of soil. The doctor would know about the oyster shell, good luck!


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## oldbeancounter (Mar 21, 2019)

Beachwalker said:


> I don't, but I use lime which I know breaks down quickly in soil, not sure about Pro mix. they say use one tablespoon lime per gallon of soil. The doctor would know about the oyster shell, good luck!


Thanks for info.

The cal-mag they sell is a major ripoff.
I just got the new Mega Crop today and hope to find someone who has old numbers for cal/mag as i was using the sample bag and didn't know the calcium/magnesium as it wasnt on printed on the label.
The new Mega Crop formula has 5.6% calcium and 2.3 % magnesium.
Does anyone know if it changed from old formula?
new formula NPK is 9-6-17 but again no idea if it changed?
Whatever I was doing was working but with old formula so hopefully nothing major changed.


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## Beachwalker (Mar 21, 2019)

oldbeancounter said:


> Thanks for info.
> 
> The cal-mag they sell is a major ripoff.
> I just got the new Mega Crop today and hope to find someone who has old numbers for cal/mag as i was using the sample bag and didn't know the calcium/magnesium as it wasnt on printed on the label.
> ...


It did change from the old formula but you'd have to go to the mega crop thread on here for specifics, there's all kinds of info and knowledgeable people there

The guy from Greenleaf used to be there too but he's gone now I don't know why, something happen. I can't tell you too much specific about megacrop, I've tried it but I used other stuff now


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## oldbeancounter (Mar 21, 2019)

Beachwalker said:


> It did change from the old formula but you'd have to go to the mega crop thread on here for specifics, there's all kinds of info and knowledgeable people there
> 
> The guy from Greenleaf used to be there too but he's gone now I don't know why, something happen. I can't tell you too much specific about megacrop, I've tried it but I used other stuff now
> 
> Edit


Thanks for your help.
I know there is some issues with sponsorship which I will stay out of..


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## Beachwalker (Mar 21, 2019)

oldbeancounter said:


> Thanks for your help.
> I know there is some issues with sponsorship which I will stay out of..


Since I got back into growing I've spent so much money on GH flora and it's a fine product but it's up to $38 a gallon now for one of the 3 parts and it's just not worth it

so I've completely gone the other way, using only inexpensive dry powders. Mega crop is a good choice, myself I use just 2 products plus Cal/Mag now and I'm happy growing this way, I'm never buying the stuff in the fancy bottles again


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## Jefferson1977 (Mar 21, 2019)

rkymtnman said:


> and a similar question:
> 
> is it true that well water has molecules of CaCO3 that are too big to be used by the plant? i've read that a few places yet can't find proof if it's true or not.


My well water literally leaves white chalk residue (CAC03) when it dries. I suspect these particles to be too big to be assimilated.


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## rkymtnman (Mar 21, 2019)

Jefferson1977 said:


> My well water literally leaves white chalk residue (CAC03) when it dries. I suspect these particles to be too big to be assimilated.


have you had it analysed?? i'll have to find my report from last year and post the numbers.

what EC/ppm is your water? i'm about 0.2 to 0.25 throughout the year


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## oldbeancounter (Mar 21, 2019)

Beachwalker said:


> Since I got back into growing I've spent so much money on GH flora and it's a fine product but it's up to $38 a gallon now for one of the 3 parts and it's just not worth it
> 
> so I've completely gone the other way, using only inexpensive dry powders. Mega crop is a good choice, myself I use just 2 products plus Cal/Mag now and I'm happy growing this way, I'm never buying the stuff in the fancy bottles again


I think most of it is BS
Markup is crazy when you can get a bag of that shell for 20.00
https://www.tscstores.com/50LBS-COSTAL-BRAND-OYSTER-SHELL-P8747.aspx


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## rkymtnman (Mar 21, 2019)

oldbeancounter said:


> I think most of it is BS
> Markup is crazy when you can get a bag of that shell for 20.00
> https://www.tscstores.com/50LBS-COSTAL-BRAND-OYSTER-SHELL-P8747.aspx


when i picked up dog food at our feed store today i looked at the OS and it was 17.99 a bag.


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## Beachwalker (Mar 21, 2019)

I could pick them up on my walk on the shore if I wanted LOL  but I'm not going to sit there and grind them up! Actually not so many around anymore but anyway I'm sticking with the lime like the doctor recommended above, seems to be working well so far I may pick some up down the road I'm going to need some ca. for my tomatoes before long anyway, I would make my own soil but I barely have the room right now as it is so for now this is working


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## oldbeancounter (Mar 21, 2019)

rkymtnman said:


> when i picked up dog food at our feed store today i looked at the OS and it was 17.99 a bag.


I just cant believe all the brands that you have to add 10 plus bottle to.


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## TintEastwood (Mar 21, 2019)

oldbeancounter said:


> Thanks for info.
> 
> The cal-mag they sell is a major ripoff.
> I just got the new Mega Crop today and hope to find someone who has old numbers for cal/mag as i was using the sample bag and didn't know the calcium/magnesium as it wasnt on printed on the label.
> ...


MC. Pre 2.0


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## Jefferson1977 (Mar 21, 2019)

rkymtnman said:


> have you had it analysed?? i'll have to find my report from last year and post the numbers.
> 
> what EC/ppm is your water? i'm about 0.2 to 0.25 throughout the year


Yeah, it is mostly CaCO3 with 500 x the EPA limit for manganese too, lol. I'm like 1.0 EC .


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## oldbeancounter (Mar 25, 2019)

TintEastwood said:


> MC. Pre 2.0
> View attachment 4304488


Thanks
Calcium has not changed, it is still the 5.6 % as I just checked the new bag I received a few days ago from Mega Crop.




.


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 25, 2019)

i'm not sure one is more readily available than the other, as far as i'm aware, you use lime when you want to raise ph, and gypsum when you don't...they both take a couple of months to start breaking down, so adding either to a plant that's having problems now is not going to make a huge difference.


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## oldbeancounter (Mar 25, 2019)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> i'm not sure one is more readily available than the other, as far as i'm aware, you use lime when you want to raise ph, and gypsum when you don't...they both take a couple of months to start breaking down, so adding either to a plant that's having problems now is not going to make a huge difference.


Thank you for the info.
I think I may go gypsum down the road to add to my soil mix before planting.
I do have some FFOF and a small amount of dolomite lime in this run from when I first first potted plants so I will not bother as it is too late to be adding stuff.
So far plants are doing ok with what I am doing.
I have been adding about 200 PPM of calcium carbonate every 4th feed , no idea if it helps lol


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Mar 25, 2019)

oldbeancounter said:


> Thank you for the info.
> I think I may go gypsum down the road to add to my soil mix before planting.
> I do have some FFOF and a small amount of dolomite lime in this run from when I first first potted plants so I will not bother as it is too late to be adding stuff.
> So far plants are doing ok with what I am doing.
> I have been adding about 200 PPM of calcium carbonate every 4th feed , no idea if it helps lol


if it's dissolved in your feed, the plant will be absorbing some of it, but be careful about what nutes you're adding it to. anything that has a lot of sulfur will cause at least some of your calcium and sulfur to precipitate, and be useless to your plants.


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## oldbeancounter (Mar 25, 2019)

Roger A. Shrubber said:


> if it's dissolved in your feed, the plant will be absorbing some of it, but be careful about what nutes you're adding it to. anything that has a lot of sulfur will cause at least some of your calcium and sulfur to precipitate, and be useless to your plants.


Ok, I will take that into account when I figure out how I will feed next grow
I may run just auto's still thinking it over.


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## Skybound420 (Apr 30, 2019)

oldbeancounter said:


> Thanks for info.
> 
> The cal-mag they sell is a major ripoff.
> I just got the new Mega Crop today and hope to find someone who has old numbers for cal/mag as i was using the sample bag and didn't know the calcium/magnesium as it wasnt on printed on the label.
> ...


I have Megacrop loaded into Hydro Buddy and the formulation I have has Ca=6.5% and Mg=1.9%. This is how MC stacks up against other blends. IMO, MC is garbage, but everyone seems to be having decent results with it so maybe I'm dead ass wrong about it?

I jumped on this thread because I (a hydro grower) just adopted using Cali Carb as a secondary source of calcium. I mix my own nutrients 100% from salts, and I no longer use anybody else's blend. No JR Peter's or Jack's or any of them. That said, I am trying to grow high brix hydro which according to the internet generally will produce a comparable result to pissing up a rain pipe, lol. But still I press on. I'm trying to understand how soluble or available CalCarb is. I mixed a concentrate last night and mixed it into 3 reservoirs already, but I suspect it isn't as available as the Ca in Cal Nite. Reading this thread is part of my due diligence in determining how much I can rely on Cal Carb. Sadly for me, this thread is mostly about soils. That's usually the case when searching anything about Cali Carb. I got mine from (*KELP4LESS*). The description says it's water soluble and since Hydro Buddy already has CaCO3 formulated, I figure it's safe to use in hydro. But still I want more assurance that I made the right choice.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 30, 2019)

Skybound420 said:


> I have Megacrop loaded into Hydro Buddy and the formulation I have has Ca=6.5% and Mg=1.9%. This is how MC stacks up against other blends. IMO, MC is garbage, but everyone seems to be having decent results with it so maybe I'm dead ass wrong about it?
> 
> I jumped on this thread because I (a hydro grower) just adopted using Cali Carb as a secondary source of calcium. I mix my own nutrients 100% from salts, and I no longer use anybody else's blend. No JR Peter's or Jack's or any of them. That said, I am trying to grow high brix hydro which according to the internet generally will produce a comparable result to pissing up a rain pipe, lol. But still I press on. I'm trying to understand how soluble or available CalCarb is. I mixed a concentrate last night and mixed it into 3 reservoirs already, but I suspect it isn't as available as the Ca in Cal Nite. Reading this thread is part of my due diligence in determining how much I can rely on Cal Carb. Sadly for me, this thread is mostly about soils. That's usually the case when searching anything about Cali Carb. I got mine from (*KELP4LESS*). The description says it's water soluble and since Hydro Buddy already has CaCO3 formulated, I figure it's safe to use in hydro. But still I want more assurance that I made the right choice.
> 
> View attachment 4325625


what are your target ppm's for veg and late bloom? i saw your mid blooms. is that from end of stretch to last few weeks?


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## Skybound420 (Apr 30, 2019)

rkymtnman said:


> what are your target ppm's for veg and late bloom? i saw your mid blooms. is that from end of stretch to last few weeks?


I am literally now transitioning feed charts b/c I am now trying to pursue High Brix in hydro and because of that I jacked up my Ca and K while reducing my N, but here are both my feed charts. The first I had fantastic results with save for very minor Ca spotting and a tad bit of K def in low RH.

 

The blank spaces represent the same number as previous. All my targets returned perfectly except Sulfur. Perhaps I aimed too high for it. For reference, GH targets S to around 50ppm, Jack's 321 gets it to 100.

Here is the first revision in pursuit of high brix. I got a refractometer, but I am also now using a special PH meter to test the PH of leaf sap. Allegedly grape farmers do this to analyze their soil to make better choices with future crops. They also use other much more expensive meters, but I grabbed the PH one for 125.

 

Here is the targets for leaf sap PH.
 

If you would like to make any critiques to my high brix targets, I'd love to hear them. My leaf sap tested out to 6.1 PH. If the chart holds true, I need to get it to 6.4 and the only way to do that is to get all my macros and secondaries balanced just so that would produce a plant that would retain higher sugars in the cells.


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## Skybound420 (Apr 30, 2019)

rkymtnman said:


> is that from end of stretch to last few weeks?


Unless the growth I see makes me feel like I want to change sooner, I generally only do Late Bloom for about a week to 10 days before a brief flush. I just dropped a Cheese that did late bloom for 10 days and when I flushed her, she faded to full yellow leaves in about 3 days.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 30, 2019)

Skybound420 said:


> If you would like to make any critiques to my high brix targets


to be honest, i'm not familiar at all with brix and cannabis. i found these 2 links that i'll be reading and seeing what's up. 

https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/brix-levels-and-what-it-means-to-cannabis.88265/

https://www.thcfarmer.com/threads/high-brix-in-hydro-thoughts-facts-ideas-etc.81612/

maybe you should start a brix thread here instead of jamming this one up? i'll follow along


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## Skybound420 (Apr 30, 2019)

rkymtnman said:


> maybe you should start a brix thread here instead of jamming this one up? i'll follow along


I wasn't trying to jam this one up, I was seeking clarity for calcium carbonate for a hydro application. I'll check out those threads you linked, thanks but it's still premature for me to start a hibrix hydro thread.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 30, 2019)

Skybound420 said:


> I wasn't trying to jam this one up, I was seeking clarity for calcium carbonate for a hydro application. I'll check out those threads you linked, thanks but it's still premature for me to start a hibrix hydro thread.


i didn't mean you personally jamming it up but it's RIU after all, it will go off topic soon enough. lol. 

i'll give those links a read too later today and tomorrow.


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## Skybound420 (May 2, 2019)

Has anybody tried mixing cali carb with vinegar to chemically strip out the calcium? The end result is called Calcium Acetate Ca(C2H3O2)2, and has the molecular weight of 158.16604 g/mol. I am hoping someone knows how to do the math to convert the molecular weight into mg/L(PPM)?


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