# distance from bare bulb?



## Red1966 (Oct 23, 2012)

I'm getting ready to start my first vertical grow. I have a C.A.P. ebb & gro 12 pot system. I have a 54"d x 96"w x 79"h tent. I have 2 Lumatek 600 Watt dimmable (600w, 400w, and 350w) ballasts and 1 400w Galaxy ballast. I was planning to stack 400w (or 600w if there is sufficient room) bare bulbs as needed with the pots in a circle around them. My questions are: How large a circle should I place the pots in? How many pots should I use to get maximum yield? How high (from media) should I place the center of each bulb? I have no experience at all with a vertical grow, so be gentle. I've asked these questions in other forums and people tell me 4 x 8 ft rectangle and 2 x 1000w bulbs with brand X hoods or other things unrelated to the questions I asked. Somewhat frustrating. So I'm hoping an experienced vertical grower out there can help me make my first vertical grow reasonably productive. Any help?


----------



## Red1966 (Oct 25, 2012)

Bump, bump. Anyone out there?


----------



## polyarcturus (Oct 25, 2012)

8" from my 400w

i could probably fit 4-6 plants around the bulb(if i had the space) and one underneath this would be optimal.


stretchy strains are better for vert.

KISS

(keep it simple.....)


----------



## Red1966 (Oct 25, 2012)

8* huh? I assume you mean the closest parts of the plants? Perhaps I have room for a circle to accommodate 600w bulbs? The tent I use is 54" inches wide. With the CAP ebb & gro, I can move the plants around if needed, but I have to keep them at the same level. I was planning on growing Sensi Seed's Big Bud, but I have several other "freebie" seeds I have gotten from The Attitude. I'll have to research them to find the most appropriate one, then plant a mother for clones. Thanks for your help.


----------



## polyarcturus (Oct 25, 2012)

54" wide sounds large enough for a full circle. yeah and 8" ins the closest bud to the light. this is my first go around with a vert setup but it pretty straight forward. just not as much room to put as many plants.


----------



## OGEvilgenius (Oct 25, 2012)

polyarcturus said:


> just not as much room to put as many plants.


Unless of course, you start building/buying shelves


----------



## Red1966 (Oct 25, 2012)

The CAP ebb & gro requires all the buckets be at the same level, unless you use multiple controller buckets. I really wanted to keep the number of plants down while having decent production. Also to reduce my electric consumption which doubles when I run 2 600w bulbs.


----------



## Styles T (Oct 26, 2012)

I have no experience at all with a vertical grow, so be gentle. I've asked these questions in other forums and people tell me 4 x 8 ft rectangle and 2 x 1000w bulbs with brand X hoods or other things unrelated to the questions I asked. Somewhat frustrating. So I'm hoping an experienced vertical grower out there can help me make my first vertical grow reasonably productive. Any help?[/QUOTE]

May I ask how you normally grow if not vertical?


----------



## OGEvilgenius (Oct 26, 2012)

Btw I'm running 2x600 in a 5x10 tent right now. Coudl stack another couple if I wanted, but I'm good for now.


----------



## Red1966 (Oct 26, 2012)

May I ask how you normally grow if not vertical?

Last grow was in 4.75 square PVC tubes, low pressure aeroponics, under a screen with 2 x 600w HID.


----------



## Red1966 (Oct 27, 2012)

Harvesting and pruning plants under a screen is awkward, at best. I'm thinking a vertical grow would nearly eliminate the need for trimming, thus negating the need for added weeks of "recovery" and the labor involved. I can be somewhat lazy.


----------



## HotShot7414 (Oct 27, 2012)

My plants are 1-4 inches away from my 400w hps bulb with a fan on it constantly. but i'd say 6-8 inches to avoid light bleaching.


----------



## Red1966 (Oct 27, 2012)

Is that in a cool tube? 1-4" seems awful close.


----------



## OGEvilgenius (Oct 27, 2012)

Mine got within an inch of my 600w more than a few times. It bleached and had some heat stress but it didn't die. Some training required. Cooltubes are a waste of cash as far as I can tell.


----------



## beenthere (Oct 27, 2012)

Red1966 said:


> I'm getting ready to start my first vertical grow. I have a C.A.P. ebb & gro 12 pot system. I have a 54"d x 96"w x 79"h tent. I have 2 Lumatek 600 Watt dimmable (600w, 400w, and 350w) ballasts and 1 400w Galaxy ballast. I was planning to stack 400w (or 600w if there is sufficient room) bare bulbs as needed with the pots in a circle around them. My questions are: How large a circle should I place the pots in? How many pots should I use to get maximum yield? How high (from media) should I place the center of each bulb? I have no experience at all with a vertical grow, so be gentle. I've asked these questions in other forums and people tell me 4 x 8 ft rectangle and 2 x 1000w bulbs with brand X hoods or other things unrelated to the questions I asked. Somewhat frustrating. So I'm hoping an experienced vertical grower out there can help me make my first vertical grow reasonably productive. Any help?


Hey whats up Red!

I don't know that much about the ebb and gro but I did take a look at a few pics of it. 
IMO, when growing vertical you want to replicate a circle as best you can, square and rectangle confifurations are less efficient because of the varying distances from the light source.

My vertical grows are set up in a hexagon, six separate 12 site shelves with a 30" radius. Using 2gal pots, the center of my plants are approx. 24" from the lights but my shelves are at a 22.5 degree angle. As my plants grow they get closer to the light source and average about 14"-16" away during flowering. I use to run them closer to the light but I swear it affects optimum ripening, (especially smell).

From what I've seen looking at your ebb and gro, you might want to make a hexagon yourself, using 2 plants per side with the center of the plants (main stem) about 20" when you start out.
I flip my plants pretty quick, when they are about 14-16".

Looks like you can move this system away from the light as your plants get bigger so you can play with your distances.

As far as the distance you stack your bulbs, it will depend on how high you anticipate your plants getting.
I stacked my 1000s 15'' apart, remember that you will need a fan blowing from the bottom of your lights, especially bare bulb.
Hope this helps, I'd be happy to share my knowledge with vertical growing with you anytime bro.


----------



## Red1966 (Oct 28, 2012)

beenthere said:


> Hey whats up Red!
> 
> I don't know that much about the ebb and gro but I did take a look at a few pics of it.
> IMO, when growing vertical you want to replicate a circle as best you can, square and rectangle confifurations are less efficient because of the varying distances from the light source.
> ...


So you're growing 72 plants at a time? In dirt? You're much more ambitious than I. I plan to only grow 6-8 plants at a time, just one level and using 400w lights. The tent is 79" high, subtract the diameter of my filter (12"), height of the buckets(12") and that leaves me with a max plant height of 55" or 4-1/2 foot. Low plant count is a factor. I did a little measuring and found the smallest circle I can make with 8 buckets (2 gallon) is a 12" radius on centers, so I think I'm good there. I can move the buckets farther away as they get bigger. I have a LUX meter somewhere, that will help me judge where to position the buckets. 1 Lumen = about 11 LUX. I aim for 55,000 w/MH and 75,000 w/HPS. I will still check temperature, aiming 80F or less. I have a 9" Honeywell desk or floor fan that can point straight up. I won't be topping as I want vertical growth. Using clones should give me plants of more or less equal height. I plan to flip at 22". I think I can do this with 2 400w lights, but if needed. I could add a third. A fourth would require buying another ballast and more electric than I am now. I bought the Eeb & Gro so I would have flexibility in placement. And I got a good price on it $310.00 vs $500.00+ retail. Postal inspector called me and asked why their drug sniffing dog hit on the thing just a few hours before they delivered it. Freaked out!!!

Does any of the above sound off the mark? Besides the drug dog.

Is my fan big enough? I have 4" and 6" inline fans with speed controllers, too.

Do you use any kind of screen between your plants and the light? I have some 2"x3" mesh garden fencing that is real easy to work with.

Are you using a cool tube(s)? 2 or 3 x 1000 watts is a lot of heat.

Do you turn your plants?

Do you trim your plants?

With my taller plants, will I need to trim the sides? Or can I just overlap the branches?

At 20" radius on center you suggested, I can put in 12 buckets 12" apart center to center. Would that overcrowd them if grown to 4- 4 1/2 ft? vertical SOG?

I have Sensi Seed's Big Bud, Barney's Farm G-13 Haze and L.S.D., Dinafem's Shark Attack, Royal Queen Seed's Ice and blue Mystic, Paradise Seed's Wappa, Acid. and Nebula. All fem seeds. Can you recommend any for vertical, yield, and potency? I'm thinking Big Bud or G-13 Haze?

There seems to be a lot less info on the web for arranging vertical lighting.

A pic of your set up would be cool.

Sorry for so many questions.


----------



## beenthere (Oct 29, 2012)

Red1966 said:


> So you're growing 72 plants at a time? In dirt? I used to grow in dirt but the for last three years I've been using 100% perlite in 2gal hempy's You're much more ambitious than I. I plan to only grow 6-8 plants at a time, just one level and using 400w lights. The tent is 79" high, subtract the diameter of my filter (12"), height of the buckets(12") and that leaves me with a max plant height of 55" or 4-1/2 foot. Low plant count is a factor. I did a little measuring and found the smallest circle I can make with 8 buckets (2 gallon) is a 12" radius on centers, so I think I'm good there. I can move the buckets farther away as they get bigger. I have a LUX meter somewhere, that will help me judge where to position the buckets. 1 Lumen = about 11 LUX. I aim for 55,000 w/MH and 75,000 w/HPS. I will still check temperature, aiming 80F or less. I have a 9" Honeywell desk or floor fan that can point straight up. I won't be topping as I want vertical growth. Using clones should give me plants of more or less equal height. I plan to flip at 22". I think I can do this with 2 400w lights, but if needed. I could add a third. A fourth would require buying another ballast and more electric than I am now. I bought the Eeb & Gro so I would have flexibility in placement. And I got a good price on it $310.00 vs $500.00+ retail. Postal inspector called me and asked why their drug sniffing dog hit on the thing just a few hours before they delivered it. Freaked out!!!
> 
> Does any of the above sound off the mark? Besides the drug dog.
> 
> ...


Questions before you start are good bro, questions during and after are sometimes too late! LOL



beenthere said:


> Any of you guys ever grew White Berry?
> I've got some that are almost 4 weeks into flower and so far I'm pretty impressed with it.
> These were only veged to around 8'', so if I do another round with them I won't flip um until at least 14"
> A few things I do like about them is they're easy growers and respond well with light to medium nutes, and the buds are getting hard as bricks.
> ...





beenthere said:


> I started these hexagon towers in soil at first, a few years ago I changed up to hempy's and have been very successful with it.
> My grow rooms have 10' ceilings so I have the benefit of a little more air exchange to keep the temps in check, it also allows me to build a 12" raised floor to hide the ventilation and waste plumbing, but 8' ceilings will work fine.
> 
> View attachment 2123323
> ...


----------



## beenthere (Oct 29, 2012)

Avidgrower said:


> Good day fellow horticulturists.
> 
> Something you may enjoy :
> 
> ...


Wow, can you explain how these units flip up for vertical applications?


----------



## Red1966 (Oct 29, 2012)

I'll go with the G-13 Haze, then. Your set up is sick, man. I think I'll only grow 8 plants this time. Gives me lots of room to move plants closer during early stage, and 15.307" center to center of the buckets when moved out to a 20" circle. Remember, I wanted to grow them 4ft. tall.


----------



## beenthere (Oct 31, 2012)

Red1966 said:


> I'll go with the G-13 Haze, then. Your set up is sick, man. I think I'll only grow 8 plants this time. Gives me lots of room to move plants closer during early stage, and 15.307" center to center of the buckets when moved out to a 20" circle. Remember, I wanted to grow them 4ft. tall.


Take some pics Red and let us know what you think of the Ebb & Gro.
Good luck to ya bro!


----------



## Red1966 (Nov 1, 2012)

It will be a while, I haven't even planted a mother yet.


----------



## GR33NL3AF (Nov 19, 2012)

beenthere said:


> Hey whats up Red!I don't know that much about the ebb and gro but I did take a look at a few pics of it. IMO, when growing vertical you want to replicate a circle as best you can, square and rectangle confifurations are less efficient because of the varying distances from the light source.My vertical grows are set up in a hexagon, six separate 12 site shelves with a 30" radius. Using 2gal pots, the center of my plants are approx. 24" from the lights but my shelves are at a 22.5 degree angle. As my plants grow they get closer to the light source and average about 14"-16" away during flowering. I use to run them closer to the light but I swear it affects optimum ripening, (especially smell).From what I've seen looking at your ebb and gro, you might want to make a hexagon yourself, using 2 plants per side with the center of the plants (main stem) about 20" when you start out.I flip my plants pretty quick, when they are about 14-16".Looks like you can move this system away from the light as your plants get bigger so you can play with your distances.As far as the distance you stack your bulbs, it will depend on how high you anticipate your plants getting.I stacked my 1000s 15'' apart, remember that you will need a fan blowing from the bottom of your lights, especially bare bulb.Hope this helps, I'd be happy to share my knowledge with vertical growing with you anytime bro.


beenthere, this setup is exacly what I am trying to wrap my head around and am working on my next room. I just joined to ask you a few questions but I can't privately message you yet. Can you message me?


----------



## beenthere (Nov 22, 2012)

GR33NL3AF said:


> beenthere, this setup is exacly what I am trying to wrap my head around and am working on my next room. I just joined to ask you a few questions but I can't privately message you yet. Can you message me?


 Hey sorry bro, I just now got back to this thread. what do ya need, I'll help you anyway I can.


----------

