# base soil for organic no till



## rollangrow (Mar 11, 2018)

Idk how (advanced) this is i got it in general growing but need some more input.. So this is my second grow outdoor first time with photoperiod, i had a issue last year with my soil were it kinda turned to concrete in my pots (really didnt do much research) it was just eco scraps soil and peat moss... so this year im stepping my game up im doing 45 gallon air pots with organic living soil my BASE SOIL MIX is going to be 

11cu ft horse compost-
15.2cu ft pro mix bx
7cu ft rice hulls an some? lava rock 

NUTRIENTS 
Down To Earth Alfalfa Meal, 
Espoma GG6 Garden Gypsum, 
Down To Earth Kelp Meal, 
Down To Earth Neem Seed Meal, 
Root Naturally Azomite Rock Dust,
Down To Earth Crab Meal, 
Down To Earth Fish Bone Meal

was shooting for 1.1.1 ratio but another bag of rice hulls was going to cost $40 shipping so i figure the perlite in the pro mix will help equal out the differents. the horse manure/bedding compost has been broke down over years. IM trying to build the best soil i can with what i have ANY help is appreciated...


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## kratos015 (Mar 13, 2018)

Rice hulls are great if you aren't running no-till. If you do plan on no-till, I recommend lava rock or pumice instead of rice hulls as they won't decompose on you.

If you have a Lowes or Home Depot nearby they sell both Peat Moss and lava rock. 3cuft compressed bale is $15 out the door and lava rocks $5 per .5 cuft, can be had cheaper at a landscaping place. Make your own ProMix!  Two compressed 3cuft should expand to around 11-12 cuft, perfect for the compost you've got. 

Definitely don't skimp on aeration or you're gonna have a bad time. Amazon sells 4cuft bags of perlite for $40-$50, lava rocks will cost roughly the same amount. 

Also, no need to buy the Alfalfa or Fish Bone Meal, the Crab/Neem/Kelp will be more than enough. If you're compost is as wonderful as you make it sound, crab/neem/kelp will be all you need as your compost will be doing most of the work here. Just provide your compost with equal parts peat moss and lava rock/pumice/perlite and amend with those 3 amendments and you're golden. Top dress with those 3 once a month, every 3 weeks if needed for heavy feeders.

As for your minerals, grab some Oyster Shell Flour and Basalt instead of the Azomite. Gypsum is incredible though, keep that for sure. The OSF will buffer the pH of your peat moss as well as provide calcium and other minerals, the basalt is a source of sulfer and silica if I'm not mistaken. 

For every 1cuft of base soil I use 1 cup OSF, 1 cup Gypsum, and 2 cups Basalt. So 4 cups of minerals per 1cuft of base soil in total. 

Looking good otherwise though. If you do the above then your soil will be even better for sure and you'll fall in love. I can't describe how wonderful it is to be able to just have the medium/pot part of the equation constantly figured out. After I harvest, I start new clones in the same pots as soon as possible so I can keep the soil going. Just keep top dressing it and providing water and it'll last you a long time.

Hope this helped.


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## CaptainSnap (Mar 13, 2018)

Very informative Kratos! Just an FYI rollngrow there is a whole section for organic gardens that is full of information your looking for and probably very helpful! Check it out.....

http://rollitup.org/f/organics.59/


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## rollangrow (Mar 13, 2018)

kratos015 said:


> Rice hulls are great if you aren't running no-till. If you do plan on no-till, I recommend lava rock or pumice instead of rice hulls as they won't decompose on you.
> Hope this helped.


thanks for your help, i am doing no till but i heard that perlite brakes down (maybe it takes longer) and turns to sand an settles in the bottom of your pot then turns in to sold chunk... i will be using lava rock, already bought all the nutes so guess my soil will have some extra goodies! and i planed on top dressing with the kelp and then im planing on buying corn seed germinating it blending it and doing seed/enzyme tea.


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## rollangrow (Mar 13, 2018)

CaptainSnap said:


> Very informative Kratos! Just an FYI rollngrow there is a whole section for organic gardens that is full of information your looking for and probably very helpful! Check it out.....
> 
> http://rollitup.org/f/organics.59/


I know, i dont have a clue why i didnt i have posted their b4 guess i just didn't think about it..


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## rollangrow (Mar 13, 2018)

Hope this helped. [/QUOTE said:


> Also if i were to make my own pro mix the cos would be about the same 3.8 cu ft bale is $40 ...$30 for peat $50 for perlite
> And if you were interested doing nirvana's wounder woman.


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## kratos015 (Mar 13, 2018)

rollangrow said:


> thanks for your help, i am doing no till but i heard that perlite brakes down (maybe it takes longer) and turns to sand an settles in the bottom of your pot then turns in to sold chunk... i will be using lava rock, already bought all the nutes so guess my soil will have some extra goodies! and i planed on top dressing with the kelp and then im planing on buying corn seed germinating it blending it and doing seed/enzyme tea.


If you already have them then may as well use them I suppose, just be cautious as both fish bone meal and alfalfa meal break down and decompose rather quickly and you'll likely have to let your soil "cook" for a few weeks if you choose to implement these amendments. Temperatures from the decomposition process can reach up to 190F+ and that is definitely not something you want happening to your roots. 

The main reason I shy away from guano, fish/blood meals, and alfalfa/cottonseed meals is because they break down incredibly fast where as the crab and neem take more time to break down and thus don't get as "hot" as the formerly listed ingredients do. Alfalfa meal especially as you can overdo things with alfalfa meal and cause lots of problems. 

Hope things go well.


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## rollangrow (Mar 13, 2018)

ya im cooking for a month, when its cooking do i need to turn it at all or just leave in a pile?


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

Like they said above.. If u already have them.. Id use them... Mabey experiment in a couple diff pots with ur mix.. U never know it might be better for u... But what most are saying seems like good advice to me... If u plan on doing a not till outdoors.. You might have to reamend them after a long outdoor grow.. So its not really a no till.. I guess u could top dress but man its way better imo to have it in the soil already... If u do it that way.. Which is the way i do it... You can use ur hulls.. Although not the best for long term.. But hey they wont go to waste... Im kinda doing research on how much to reamend after the season.. Some ppl don't for a couple few yrs.. But they top dress more... Some ppl reamend every yr.. Just maybe not as much... Id just reamend myself if thats not to big of an inconvenience for u... If u don't wanna buy aeration this yr.. Go find a very rotten old log... The kind that will be all wet and shot after a rain inside.... Wait till its dry and go collect it for aeration.. I loovve it.. Roots do too.. Grow right into em... I charge mine w rabbit poo and kelp meal in a tea... But id say ur mix will kick ass for u man... Outside ull need to top dress a couple times most likey.. So if u choose not to use some of that stuff u can use it later when or if needed.. Get a few soluble quick release top dress handy... If u choose to go no till def get some lava rocks... And it kinda sounds like the reason ur soil got all hard is cause it wasnt aerated well.. Maybe... I honestly make areation my bulk over soil and compost...not a whole lot more but its not an even 33/33/33.. ...drainage is supeerrr important man.. And another lil bit of info... I started my plants on mid to early march... It wouldn't of mattered if i started them in late april tbh.. And i was in 45 and 100 gal pots... If u grow well.. Water right.. And take care of ur girls.. They will be rootbound af... Im not starting mine ill mid or late april..but if they get too big ima cut the smart pots and ground em.... Mine were literally grown in the ground so bad i couldn't move them... Had to get Ray Lewis on em...that areation lete those roots go all over and the plant blows up.. And imo u had a better mix than i did at the time.. I was ff moonshine mix.. I modified it and fed a lot though.....oh. and u can make a foilar feed outs that alfalfa if u dont use it too..


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

Oh.. And that azomite.. Idk man.. I know its a good mineral.. But all those metals.. Def dont skip out on minerals man... Id go w greensand or langdbeinite, gypsum, basalt, granite... Some or all of those


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## kratos015 (Mar 13, 2018)

rollangrow said:


> ya im cooking for a month, when its cooking do i need to turn it at all or just leave in a pile?


You need to turn it as often as possible, at least once a day if you can. Otherwise anaerobic bacteria will take over and make things go sour (although you can recover from this should it happen). Keep things moist, but not wet, and turn the pile once a day to provide air. Do that for 3-4 weeks and you should be golden.




GoRealUhGro said:


> Oh.. And that azomite.. Idk man.. I know its a good mineral.. But all those metals.. Def dont skip out on minerals man... Id go w greensand or langdbeinite, gypsum, basalt, granite... Some or all of those


I used to use Azomite when I first started, but I haven't for a while now. Stopped using it in favor of the gypsum, basalt, OSF mixture as that combined with crab/kelp meal provides me with everything I need. Kelp Meal has a TON of minerals in it. I've heard people say that Azomite contains fluoride and lead, but no idea how much truth there is to that. With all that being said, Azomite is a hell of a lot better than nothing.


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

kratos015 said:


> You need to turn it as often as possible, at least once a day if you can. Otherwise anaerobic bacteria will take over and make things go sour (although you can recover from this should it happen). Keep things moist, but not wet, and turn the pile once a day to provide air. Do that for 3-4 weeks and you should be golden.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Totally agreed man.. Idk im not a great person for remembering shit but i think kelp has 72 or some ofd number of nutes and min in it.. Its like fucking a super anti disease and vitimal for plants... Iv literally top dressed w it idk how many times when my plants were looking on the bad side and poof.. Not always though... But its killer shit... Iv never used neem but man i cant wait.. That stuff sounds amazing... And w the npk on the langbeinite u might need to cut back on something.. Idk i already forgot the mix lol.. Told u i had a bad memory


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

Iv never turned my soil when cooking though man.. Put it in plastic garbage can w holes... Hell its actually good to let it cook right in the smart pots ur gonna use..creates that oh so coveted food web we don't wanna destroy.. Keep it moist and u should be gold..itll get nice white mycelium fungus on it.. Which is good


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## kratos015 (Mar 13, 2018)

GoRealUhGro said:


> Totally agreed man.. Idk im not a great person for remembering shit but i think kelp has 72 or some ofd number of nutes and min in it.. Its like fucking a super anti disease and vitimal for plants... Iv literally top dressed w it idk how many times when my plants were looking on the bad side and poof.. Not always though... But its killer shit... Iv never used neem but man i cant wait.. That stuff sounds amazing... And w the npk on the langbeinite u might need to cut back on something.. Idk i already forgot the mix lol.. Told u i had a bad memory


I've done nothing but top dress with kelp/crab/neem meals since I originally mixed the soil with them around 14 months ago and the results speak for themselves. Neem is great stuff, highly recommend incorporating it into your mix if you haven't already. Langbeinite is pretty much sulfer, potassium, and magnesium though. As you pointed out, don't add things like Langbeinite unless you know for sure your soil needs the extra minerals it provides. If you already have lots of potassium in your soil, you'll likely want to find other sources of sulfer and magnesium to avoid excess levels of potassium. And so forth.

Gotta say though, I love your idea of cooking the soil in smart pots. Never thought of that. Assuming you don't over water them that's actually perfect, just like how people use the smart pots for worm bins. Learn something new every day!


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

kratos015 said:


> I've done nothing but top dress with kelp/crab/neem meals since I originally mixed the soil with them around 14 months ago and the results speak for themselves. Neem is great stuff, highly recommend incorporating it into your mix if you haven't already. Langbeinite is pretty much sulfer, potassium, and magnesium though. As you pointed out, don't add things like Langbeinite unless you know for sure your soil needs the extra minerals it provides. If you already have lots of potassium in your soil, you'll likely want to find other sources of sulfer and magnesium to avoid excess levels of potassium. And so forth.
> 
> Gotta say though, I love your idea of cooking the soil in smart pots. Never thought of that. Assuming you don't over water them that's actually perfect, just like how people use the smart pots for worm bins. Learn something new every day!


Hey i can say iv thought about it and i didnt see why it wouldnt make sense.. And good sense... But i had to ask my dope growing consultant @ greasemonkeymann lol.. I miss him.. I was gone for awhile so idk what happend to him.. But i asked him if it would be ok awhile back and he said that's exactly how it does it... Getting your microbes building their lil micro habits nd creating that web takes a min.. So i thought cooking right in the pot i was gonna plant in would be best..ya know.. And i have to say.. It is... They just go to fn town... Try it my man.. Do a comparison.. I bet money.. Lol i shouldnt bet cause i loose a lot.. But i bet if u let that soil cook and set in ur smart pots for about 3 4 weeks compaired to mixed up soil u just put in a pot.. Ull see wayy better growth off the bat in the sp


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## rollangrow (Mar 13, 2018)

GoRealUhGro said:


> Like they said above.. If u already have them.. Id use them... Mabey experiment in a couple diff pots with ur mix.. U never know it might be better for u... But what most are saying seems like good advice to me... If u plan on doing a not till outdoors.. You might have to reamend them after a long outdoor grow.. So its not really a no till.. I guess u could top dress but man its way better imo to have it in the soil already... If u do it that way.. Which is the way i do it... You can use ur hulls.. Although not the best for long term.. But hey they wont go to waste... Im kinda doing research on how much to reamend after the season.. Some ppl don't for a couple few yrs.. But they top dress more... Some ppl reamend every yr.. Just maybe not as much... Id just reamend myself if thats not to big of an inconvenience for u... If u don't wanna buy aeration this yr.. Go find a very rotten old log... The kind that will be all wet and shot after a rain inside.... Wait till its dry and go collect it for aeration.. I loovve it.. Roots do too.. Grow right into em... I charge mine w rabbit poo and kelp meal in a tea... But id say ur mix will kick ass for u man... Outside ull need to top dress a couple times most likey.. So if u choose not to use some of that stuff u can use it later when or if needed.. Get a few soluble quick release top dress handy... If u choose to go no till def get some lava rocks... And it kinda sounds like the reason ur soil got all hard is cause it wasnt aerated well.. Maybe... I honestly make areation my bulk over soil and compost...not a whole lot more but its not an even 33/33/33.. ...drainage is supeerrr important man.. And another lil bit of info... I started my plants on mid to early march... It wouldn't of mattered if i started them in late april tbh.. And i was in 45 and 100 gal pots... If u grow well.. Water right.. And take care of ur girls.. They will be rootbound af... Im not starting mine ill mid or late april..but if they get too big ima cut the smart pots and ground em.... Mine were literally grown in the ground so bad i couldn't move them... Had to get Ray Lewis on em...that areation lete those roots go all over and the plant blows up.. And imo u had a better mix than i did at the time.. I was ff moonshine mix.. I modified it and fed a lot though.....oh. and u can make a foilar feed outs that alfalfa if u dont use it too..


ya i thought about them getting root bound but figured the smart pots would help some and if they do get bound ill just have to water more often. im gorilla growing and these 45 gal are already a bit scetch lol. only reason im not putting them in ground is i live near a river in very hilly area LOTS of rock cant really dig an not many good spots to choose from...


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

I would make a mix similar to this for starts and solos.... 40 50% areation... Gey those roots going good... 20 %compost, 30% promix, id def use some kelp meal and a lil minerals... Id say that will get u going good.. Take em out and toss some soluble micro on em now and again.


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## rollangrow (Mar 13, 2018)

GoRealUhGro said:


> Hey i can say iv thought about it and i didnt see why it wouldnt make sense.. And good sense... But i had to ask my dope growing consultant @ greasemonkeymann lol.. I miss him.. I was gone for awhile so idk what happend to him.. But i asked him if it would be ok awhile back and he said that's exactly how it does it... Getting your microbes building their lil micro habits nd creating that web takes a min.. So i thought cooking right in the pot i was gonna plant in would be best..ya know.. And i have to say.. It is... They just go to fn town... Try it my man.. Do a comparison.. I bet money.. Lol i shouldnt bet cause i loose a lot.. But i bet if u let that soil cook and set in ur smart pots for about 3 4 weeks compaired to mixed up soil u just put in a pot.. Ull see wayy better growth off the bat in the sp


im definitely doing this brilliant idea


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

rollangrow said:


> ya i thought about them getting root bound but figured the smart pots would help some and if they do get bound ill just have to water more often. im gorilla growing and these 45 gal are already a bit scetch lol. only reason im not putting them in ground is i live near a river in very hilly area LOTS of rock cant really dig an not many good spots to choose from...


As my name says.. Im a go real uh gro err as well lol... All of mine are man.... That water more mentalily isnt the way to go.. Im def not being a cock suck either... I told u abput the root bound deal cause ur HARVEST will suffer... You will have huge ass plants and they wont throw those huge ass buds cuz...here is another thing to think on.. Ur doing gorilla... U dont want to be therr more than needed... Packing water in everyday.. And when its hot w sp and being rootbound ull be doing it everyday.. 
Your upping the chances of gettin popped bro... They will get just as big if u do them in mayish... If u know what's up...and its not that hard... Mine were growing inches a day.. Then. ..poof.. They quit.. They went like a foot in a month... And they have did that in like 1.5 2 weeks.... They did stretch but not like i wanted.. Ur def gonna need to cage man... ..itll boost up those yields like crazy too... But im just trying to help.. I wish i would of put mine in later than i did.. My avatar is my 100 gal pot.. It was taken in mid july... And it was already bound af and had been


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

rollangrow said:


> im definitely doing this brilliant idea


Just mix the funk outa your soil.. Get every lil crumb u can on the soil... Toss a lil in.. Mix till its gone.. Toss some more.. Repeat.. I never toss all my shit in then mix.. I feel like im not getting the mix.. mixed! Lol well enough... I mix small batches in a pool by hand.. Then put it in the sp. Repeate till full i usually set me a pot the same size as the one i have my gurl in right in the middle.. Helps not to break up the web... Lol idk if it does but think about it.. It has to, right?..plus its just smart


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

And u can cook it right in the spot u want to leave em bro.. Just dont leave it uncovered totally.. If it rains a lot its gonna get too much water.. U will need to water more often then when u cook i? A plastic can also... Not too often thought.. Just moist.. Its honestly better to cook it in warmer places... Shit gets going better when its warm ya know


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## rollangrow (Mar 13, 2018)

GoRealUhGro said:


> As my name says.. Im a go real uh gro err as well lol... All of mine are man.... That water more mentalily isnt the way to go.. Im def not being a cock suck either... I told u abput the root bound deal cause ur HARVEST will suffer... You will have huge ass plants and they wont throw those huge ass buds cuz...here is another thing to think on.. Ur doing gorilla... U dont want to be therr more than needed... Packing water in everyday.. And when its hot w sp and being rootbound ull be doing it everyday..
> Your upping the chances of gettin popped bro... They will get just as big if u do them in mayish... If u know what's up...and its not that hard... Mine were growing inches a day.. Then. ..poof.. They quit.. They went like a foot in a month... And they have did that in like 1.5 2 weeks.... They did stretch but not like i wanted.. Ur def gonna need to cage man... ..itll boost up those yields like crazy too... But im just trying to help.. I wish i would of put mine in later than i did.. My avatar is my 100 gal pot.. It was taken in mid july... And it was already bound af and had been


i planned on starting them April 20th but i guess i could wait another month if you think its going to hurt me that bad..im not worried about getting busted to much im in the middle of nowhere in central us. i plan on lst all of them but 1 going to top it a bunch


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## kratos015 (Mar 13, 2018)

GoRealUhGro said:


> Hey i can say iv thought about it and i didnt see why it wouldnt make sense.. And good sense... But i had to ask my dope growing consultant @ greasemonkeymann lol.. I miss him.. I was gone for awhile so idk what happend to him.. But i asked him if it would be ok awhile back and he said that's exactly how it does it... Getting your microbes building their lil micro habits nd creating that web takes a min.. So i thought cooking right in the pot i was gonna plant in would be best..ya know.. And i have to say.. It is... They just go to fn town... Try it my man.. Do a comparison.. I bet money.. Lol i shouldnt bet cause i loose a lot.. But i bet if u let that soil cook and set in ur smart pots for about 3 4 weeks compaired to mixed up soil u just put in a pot.. Ull see wayy better growth off the bat in the sp


Awww what? He isn't on here anymore? That'd be a darn shame, he's helped my ass with a LOT. Mainly keeping things simple and sticking to the basics. I was always in some sort of rabbit hole until he'd lend a hand. I do recall him mentioning that he runs a shop/business of sorts (I believe?) and that he rarely has time to post when it's a busy time of year for him. 

You (and grease of course ) are totally right about using the smart pots to cook the soil in for the same reason you want to look at no-till growing and that is that you are in fact maintaining these webs the microbes are making. By shoveling it into containers you are breaking them apart. This is the exact reason I run no-till, so I'm surprised I never realized that before haha! 

I wouldn't take that bet though, because you would win. Not only are you transplanting into a living and thriving soil, but the webs they worked so hard to create are undisturbed. Sprinkle some mycorrhizae onto the roots when you transplant and you are beyond golden.




GoRealUhGro said:


> As my name says.. Im a go real uh gro err as well lol... All of mine are man.... *That water more mentalily isnt the way to go..* Im def not being a cock suck either... I told u abput the root bound deal cause ur HARVEST will suffer... You will have huge ass plants and they wont throw those huge ass buds cuz...here is another thing to think on.. Ur doing gorilla... U dont want to be therr more than needed... Packing water in everyday.. And when its hot w sp and being rootbound ull be doing it everyday..
> *Your upping the chances of gettin popped bro*... They will get just as big if u do them in mayish... If u know what's up...and its not that hard... Mine were growing inches a day.. Then. ..poof.. They quit.. They went like a foot in a month... And they have did that in like 1.5 2 weeks.... They did stretch but not like i wanted.. Ur def gonna need to cage man... ..itll boost up those yields like crazy too... But im just trying to help.. I wish i would of put mine in later than i did.. My avatar is my 100 gal pot.. It was taken in mid july... And it was already bound af and had been


Just wanted to echo these sentiments for the OP. You'll know when you can go crazy with watering and it will usually be sometime before flower or during the flower stretch. Some summers I would water my girls to 3-4 times a day. It is MUCH better to underwater than to overwater though, so please keep that in mind if and when in doubt about when to water. 

I also didn't see the part about you doing guerilla growing, but tread with utmost caution and spend as little time and money as possible on it. Cops aren't even your main concern for the most part, rippers are. Cops likely won't find you and likely won't care if you keep things small enough. Don't make it worth the paperwork for them. Be careful OP, and hoping for the best.


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

kratos015 said:


> Awww what? He isn't on here anymore? That'd be a darn shame, he's helped my ass with a LOT. Mainly keeping things simple and sticking to the basics. I was always in some sort of rabbit hole until he'd lend a hand. I do recall him mentioning that he runs a shop/business of sorts (I believe?) and that he rarely has time to post when it's a busy time of year for him.
> 
> You (and grease of course ) are totally right about using the smart pots to cook the soil in for the same reason you want to look at no-till growing and that is that you are in fact maintaining these webs the microbes are making. By shoveling it into containers you are breaking them apart. This is the exact reason I run no-till, so I'm surprised I never realized that before haha!
> 
> ...


Heils got my 9 plants and 9 loads of cops came.. If they see em.. They care.. Its bs... What a lot of ppl dokt know is that cops.. Well here i knlw they do..get a bonus for every plant they snag... 2gs bro.. They aint passin up on shit.. Would u if u were a fuck nut cop ...leave 2 gs laying.. Nah... And yes.. Grease should get fn paid for helping all the growers he does.. He is on fn point w his shit... Verrryy intelligent... He does work.. Idk if he owns.. At a shop.. But it says he hasnt been active since like oct 17...and this is how i water... Cause cannabis (lol grease info here) thrives in dryer soils... But they neeeed water... I water when i know my pots are completely dry.. And i saturate them completely.. Wait till they dry.. Saturate again... They will get what they need that way and the roots will be stretching for water.. Thus making a bigger plant.. Bigger roots bigger fruits... Some ppl wait till they see their leaves saggin.. I just cant.. I feel like im hurting my bby lol... But if u jist wait till its all the way dry... Saturate.. Youll be gold


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

I know about the cop bonus beacuse we too also own a garage and a business.. And a mechanic friend who actually lived here for a min.. Told us about it.... I bet those pos pigs plant weed every yr and get 2 gs... Fuck i would.. But that's prob why im not a cop.. Well.. Im a good human also


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

GoRealUhGro said:


> I know about the cop bonus beacuse we too also own a garage and a business.. And a mechanic friend who actually lived here for a min.. Told us about it.... I bet those pos pigs plant weed every yr and get 2 gs... Fuck i would.. But that's prob why im not a cop.. Well.. Im a good human also


Oops.. I left out the most important part.. My mechanic pal worked as a mechanic for the states lol


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## rollangrow (Mar 13, 2018)

GoRealUhGro said:


> Just mix the funk outa your soil.. Get every lil crumb u can on the soil... Toss a lil in.. Mix till its gone.. Toss some more.. Repeat.. I never toss all my shit in then mix.. I feel like im not getting the mix.. mixed! Lol well enough... I mix small batches in a pool by hand.. Then put it in the sp. Repeate till full i usually set me a pot the same size as the one i have my gurl in right in the middle.. Helps not to break up the web... Lol idk if it does but think about it.. It has to, right?..plus its just smart


i got confused on what your saying here--- i usually set me a pot the same size as the one i have my gurl in right in the middle.. Helps not to break up the web. do you mean you mix , put in pot then when its full dump it into main pot or?? and just to confirm dont turn when cooking right ?


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

rollangrow said:


> i got confused on what your saying here--- i usually set me a pot the same size as the one i have my gurl in right in the middle.. Helps not to break up the web. do you mean you mix , put in pot then when its full dump it into main pot or?? and just to confirm dont turn when cooking right ?


Ill try to make it easier.. Im known for making things sound more difficult than they are.. Lol sorry... And for ur 1st q.. Say my gurls are in 5 gal pots... I put a 5 gal pot just like the one shes in right in the middle of the cooking soil... That way ur not disturbing the web as much when transplanting... I think i made that understandable lol.. 2nd q... No.. I dont turn it.. I cook it in the same home my gurl is gonna live and die in..u dont wanna turn it.. AFTER U MIX TH dog shit outa it... I think mixing it in small batches is better.. Gets more soil covered w amendments ya know.. Just personal preference.. Makes sense to me and def cant hurt.. But no turning cause those microbes are building kinda like a lil community.. And when u turn and destroy there community they must rebuild it ...that community is the food web... The basic reason for a no till.. Imo... Strong food web really breaks down shit anD is uptaken into the plant easier... Hit it with a micro tea to wet it for cooking...a good MICROBIAL tea would be ewc, old soil from under an old stump in the woods... Some top soil from the woods... Dirt from ur yard.. Compost and molasses.. I bubble mine for 36 hrs in about 70ish degree water ..dont add any nutes to a microbial tea.. It slows the growth way down.Especially kelp... Does shit to the oxygen...this is science fact.. U wont need nutes anyhow bro lol


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

Idk exactly why this is a good thing.. But a lot of the king ding a ling.. Said as a compliment lol.. Og organic growers i know plant some seeds in Their pots also.. Im guess it helps activate the soil more and gets the microbes working more... Id use something like alfalfa or clover ...im drawing a blank on what most use.. Its a high n lil plant... Fuck ill look


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## rollangrow (Mar 13, 2018)

GoRealUhGro said:


> Ill try to make it easier.. Im known for making things sound more difficult than they are.. Lol sorry... And for ur 1st q.. Say my gurls are in 5 gal pots... I put a 5 gal pot just like the one shes in right in the middle of the cooking soil... That way ur not disturbing the web as much when transplanting... I think i made that understandable lol.. 2nd q... No.. I dont turn it.. I cook it in the same home my gurl is gonna live and die in..u dont wanna turn it.. AFTER U MIX TH dog shit outa it... I think mixing it in small batches is better.. Gets more soil covered w amendments ya know.. Just personal preference.. Makes sense to me and def cant hurt.. But no turning cause those microbes are building kinda like a lil community.. And when u turn and destroy there community they must rebuild it ...that community is the food web... The basic reason for a no till.. Imo... Strong food web really breaks down shit anD is uptaken into the plant easier... Hit it with a micro tea to wet it for cooking...a good MICROBIAL tea would be ewc, old soil from under an old stump in the woods... Some top soil from the woods... Dirt from ur yard.. Compost and molasses.. I bubble mine for 36 hrs in about 70ish degree water ..dont add any nutes to a microbial tea.. It slows the growth way down.Especially kelp... Does shit to the oxygen...this is science fact.. U wont need nutes anyhow bro lol


Im with you now lol is their any way to make tea without bubbling ? i dont really have a way to do it. i have a lil aerator for like a minnow bucket but thats wouldn't work i don't think


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

Comfery!


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## rollangrow (Mar 13, 2018)

also do you think i should introduce worms in the pots or r they to small ?


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

rollangrow said:


> Im with you now lol is their any way to make tea without bubbling ? i dont really have a way to do it. i have a lil aerator for like a minnow bucket but thats wouldn't work i don't think


Not a microbial tea no.. And i wouldnt make teas w. O aeration imo... Its nkt that much if u buy a pump.. I have 2 elemental solutions 4 and 2 line pumps.. Not the best but they are only like 25 bucks.. The blue line is cheap.. And the airstones were like 2 3 bucks... Invest my friend lol


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

rollangrow said:


> also do you think i should introduce worms in the pots or r they to small ?


You can.. But unless ur doing a long term no till i wouldnt.. Id use them in the bin and my pile.. I think they will be more beneficial... If u have enough it def wont hurt to toss some in


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

I put big ass night crawlers i caught in mine to areate it more.. Didnt see much diff


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

Gold leaf hydroponics.. Old worms way.. Has em cheap.. No high speed or id take a pic and send it... But ppl give worms way shit.. Idk why.. Stuck up i guess... Dude im un a state where we have one hydro shop and i wouldn't buy shit there.. Besides it 3.5 hrs away... So i gotta order.. Feed stores here carry very little and nursery suck balls... I make most of my shit if i can... But kyle and clint at ww.. Gold leaf wtfe.. Are good ass dudes who will help ur ass out... They hooked me up cause i was a steady buyer and they pretty much price matched shit and gave me discounts all the time.. If they could... And i made out better than or about the same as these asses sayin worms way is a fn joke.. No dude.. Its not... If u can get Kyle on the horn he is super smart and helpful..or clint... I would steer u toward an elemental solutions pump unlike mine... They have one outlet but are bigger.. Look like a lil engine... A good ass one is like 40 50 bucks so.. They pump way more air in the teas.. And its air.. Not bubbles.. That make the microbes multiple.. Know what im sayin.. U want the whole bucket to bubble rather than have bubbles in it


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 13, 2018)

A well made microbial tea can jump start the hell outa ur soil.. And it is always good to be able to brew a nute tea when u need it... Or a fungal tea... Ima be trying more of those this yr


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## rollangrow (Mar 14, 2018)

were do you get your seeds? i have only ordered from nirvana so far.


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 14, 2018)

Getawaymountain and herbies in the past


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 14, 2018)

Getaway is a member here.. Old school guerilla grower.. All his strains are made for guerilla and outdoor grows... He is from Maine..im also from the NE... I like his stuff for its quality, toughness, and eaely harvest... Check him out


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## grassified (Mar 15, 2018)

TLDR: Just bottom water (like ebb and flow) your plants if you want optimal growth.

Aeration as it is is a bad joke. Your plants cant eat perlite, vermiculite and lava rock. You need a good loose soil which is totally obtainable without perlite, peat, lava rocks or any of that shit.

Put your soil in the pot, don't drench it/compact it with water. let it sit. let the fungi form connections inside and "set" the soil, now you have structure without amendments - this is how it works in nature.


Water like nature does. A sprinkling of rain on the leaves (or bottom water, see below).

The leaves direct water away from the base of the plant and make a watering "circle" around the plant - this is where it likes water the best. (IE no water falls under plant!)

Plants exude salts from their roots they dont like - in that top layer of soil. The leaves direct the water away from those salts and keep them from contacting the lower feeder roots again.


*So everytime you drench plants at the stem/under its leaves, you are just undoing all its hard work to get the bad salts out!!!* Plus you are shifting and compacting the soil structure.


This advice originally came from Mandala seeds. Thanks guys!! some of the most powerful growing knowledge I've ever received.

If you start "bottom watering" (like ebb and flow, soak plant from bottom of pot in 2-3" of water and let it percolate upwards) you WILL notice healthier plants.


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 15, 2018)

grassified said:


> Aeration is a bad joke. Your plants cant eat perlite,vermiculite and lava rock.s You need a good fluffy soil which is totally obtainable without perlite, peat, lava rocks or any of that shit.
> 
> Put your soil in the pot, don't drench it/compact it with water. let it sit. let the fungi form connections inside and "set" the soil, now you have structure without amendments.
> 
> ...


This is laughable


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## grassified (Mar 15, 2018)

GoRealUhGro said:


> This is laughable


And your reply, poorly thought out!


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## GoRealUhGro (Mar 15, 2018)

Ok.. Anyone who makes a statement like.. Aeration is a bad joke ..is suspect in any grow advice i hear feom then on out...


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## rollangrow (Mar 15, 2018)

I feel like every hole iv ever dug in nature the soil is not airy at ALL... what your saying sounds good but soil has weight an weight is affected by gravity = soil will compact and harden... its called settling and with the water like nature aspect ya that is good but even if i were to put leaves on top and water on them when the water hits the soil and starts going down it will pull all the small pieces of the soil down and will compact.


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## grassified (Mar 15, 2018)

rollangrow said:


> I feel like every hole iv ever dug in nature the soil is not airy at ALL... what your saying sounds good but soil has weight an weight is affected by gravity = soil will compact and harden... its called settling and with the water like nature aspect ya that is good but even if i were to put leaves on top and water on them when the water hits the soil and starts going down it will pull all the small pieces of the soil down and will compact.



Good observation, but you're digging in the wrong areas. 99.9% of soil in nature will be like this. but theres a .01%, usually close to a water source and high amounts of organic matter, that at least have a topsoil layer like I describe. The grail soils (.001%)are in very select areas where flood water wash out that top layer of organic matter into a ditch and create a nice deep layer of rich loamy soil.

What we are doing is very rare in nature, in that we work lots of organic matter deep into the soil whereas in nature it forms on the top layer only. bu when you find that soil you'll know. You never find it because wherever this soil it, theres usually a big ass tree growing in it.

let me add to that the best soil i've ever found in nature was at the base of a freshly fallen tree at the bottom of a hill You could tell how good it as by all the new, vibrant green weeds that were taking hold. There was spring nearby because a few inches down the soil was visibly moist whereas around it you'd have to dig a foot. It was super soft and full of earthworms to 1 foot + getting more compact as I dug.

Needless to say I harvest some BIG tomatoes from that one lol.


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## dubekoms (Mar 15, 2018)

grassified said:


> TLDR: Just bottom water (like ebb and flow) your plants if you want optimal growth.
> 
> Aeration as it is is a bad joke. Your plants cant eat perlite, vermiculite and lava rock. You need a good loose soil which is totally obtainable without perlite, peat, lava rocks or any of that shit.
> 
> ...


Do you have sources on any of that? Especially the part where you wrote plants exude salts they don't like in the top soil.


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## grassified (Mar 15, 2018)

Would you like the scholarly article on a silver platter, sir? I told you it was knowledge from Mandala Seeds - well respected and established breeders in the cannabis industry. They may have some literature on it but it was more of an offhand comment that I read on a forum.

I am surprised their FAQ doesn't talk about it.

FWIW thats how I water now and it works much better than what I used to do. it mimics nature. If you want perfection ALWAYS MIMIC NATURE.


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## dubekoms (Mar 16, 2018)

grassified said:


> Would you like the scholarly article on a silver platter, sir? I told you it was knowledge from Mandala Seeds - well respected and established breeders in the cannabis industry. They may have some literature on it but it was more of an offhand comment that I read on a forum.
> 
> I am surprised their FAQ doesn't talk about it.
> 
> FWIW thats how I water now and it works much better than what I used to do. it mimics nature. If you want perfection ALWAYS MIMIC NATURE.


What's your soil recipe if ya don't mind?


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## grassified (Mar 16, 2018)

dubekoms said:


> What's your soil recipe if ya don't mind?



Tree rot soil (soil immediately around and underneath a fallen tree thats been rotting in a moist area for 2+ years - keep in mind i'm in a tropical climate where things decompose faster) + surrounding red dirt.

The red dirt is some really good Ag soil, full of nutrients, lacking in just a few that's easily remedied. So I correct with very minute amounts of magnesium, potassium, sulpher (SulPoMag - u can buy it online).

The heaviness and nutrient density of the tropical clay mixes nicely with the super fluffy, loamy, mostly insect frass that is the decomposed stump "soil". It's nearly as fluffy as slightly moistened and fluffed peat moss for reference. 

Then in the bottom, or sometimes mixed in I'll add some osmocote - this stuff is plant steroids. They seem to like this "chem-organic" mix I give them, it;s the best of both worlds IMO.

No need to drench the soil with expensive chemical salts 90% of which are probably washing out of the soil not even being used by the plant.

I start them off in 1 gallon grow bags with this mix - then I transplant into ~200 gallons of tropical red soil + my local composting facilities composted green waste + various seaweeds, coral sand (for calcium + micronutrients).+ the secret ingredient/method. 

I would prefer this to sit for ~6-8 months before planting in it as this gives best results. 



By the time they have reached the end of flower and are being flushed, the osmocote is long gone (for sativas this may be over a year after I put them in the 1 gal bags) - it's only there to get them going strong at first.

I make extracts, hash mostly, I always sample the buds and do a small cure batch of each plant in case I chance upon some good flower. The rest of it is made into extract.


I don't use those toxic hydrocarbon, co2 BS extraction techniques either.. You are destroying the trichomes structure, mixing all the terpenes, resins, psychoactive materials together in ways they were never meant to be.

Really what you want to be smoking is a perfectly untouched, well cured trichome that hasn't been crushed, dissolved or otherwise mutilated from its natural form. It's difficult to get this untouched, intact trichome in hash but possible (something like kief) and is IMO the best way to smoke cannabis extract. 

Behold the complexity and perfection of the trichome. Keep your terps and cannabinoids separated folks


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## SchmoeJoe (Mar 18, 2018)

kratos015 said:


> If you already have them then may as well use them I suppose, just be cautious as both fish bone meal and alfalfa meal break down and decompose rather quickly and you'll likely have to let your soil "cook" for a few weeks if you choose to implement these amendments. Temperatures from the decomposition process can reach up to 190F+ and that is definitely not something you want happening to your roots.
> 
> The main reason I shy away from guano, fish/blood meals, and alfalfa/cottonseed meals is because they break down incredibly fast where as the crab and neem take more time to break down and thus don't get as "hot" as the formerly listed ingredients do. Alfalfa meal especially as you can overdo things with alfalfa meal and cause lots of problems.
> 
> Hope things go well.



As long as you're on top of sticking to the recommended rates there shouldn't be any issues with burning. I just stick with the lower range and get all of the benefits with no risk of burn. 

For my big beds I just use the Down To Earth BioLive and All Purpose. There both complete blends and between them there's pretty every ideal dry organic amendment and beneficial inoculant you could want. On top of that I don't have to worry about calculating nutrient or amendment ratios.

I may be biased towards DTE. I sometimes just ride my bike across town to the Down To Earth retail store since I live in the same town. In fact, everytime I go down their it's like a trip to memory lane since it's right across the street from the jail where I served part of my sentence and met up for the road crew to do my community service about fifteen years ago when I got busted for growing. We've definitely come a long way since then.


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## rollangrow (Mar 18, 2018)

ya my ratio is pretty simple i have 5lb of everything an that = 15 cups i have 30 cu ft of soil so its half a cup per cu ft.. i screwed up when i ordered the azomite i only got 2 lb. so im gonna try and find some more mineral. i was talking to the owner of my local garden store (seems very knowledgeable) he was telling me how he gets all the mineral in his garden, he buys cattle mineral its the same thing an you get way more for way less. like he said mineral is mineral it dont matter what form it comes in, he just speads it over his garden and it breaks down and inters the soil. you can buy it with 
*Sulfur*
*Potassium*
*Magnesium*
*Calcium and Phosphorus *in it anyone ever tried this? i might make a new thread


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