# 2019 #1 commercial production 4x4x7 3+ LBS guide here



## Sir420 (Mar 30, 2019)

https://www.rollitup.org/t/led-strip-gurus-around-here-stop-by-and-check-out-this-vertical-setup-that-needs-tweaking.987102/

Jump over to this thread to check out the future of how grow rooms will be made to keep up with low market costs !!! All growers need to chip in to help growing community with any tips or knowelege they feel welcome


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## rob333 (Apr 3, 2019)

Sir420 said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/t/led-strip-gurus-around-here-stop-by-and-check-out-this-vertical-setup-that-needs-tweaking.987102/
> 
> Jump over to this thread to check out the future of how grow rooms will be made to keep up with low market costs !!! All growers need to chip in to help growing community with any tips or knowelege they feel welcome


leds are a fad and in my opinion are fucken stupid and a hazzard lol i was once gunna refit my room with leds but 5 grand later i invested that back into solar and hps /cmh and i tell u what i pay zero for electrical and still pull 10x the amount then any led grower.not to mention im running 4-6 lights were if i was to refit i could not fit the leds they wanted me to have in me grow room advanced platium wanted something like 20-25 leds lol were bestva came in around 30 led lights 30 fucken lights


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## Roger A. Shrubber (Apr 4, 2019)

there are some great leds out there, you have to fit the appliance to your application....it seems to me you were dealing with people that didn't know what the fuck they were talking about, and were trying to sell you a load of old shit...
how about having the same discussion with HLG or TImber? Bestva is not even as reputable as viperspectra or mars.....and they're both crap...


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## DangerDavez (Apr 8, 2019)

rob333 said:


> leds are a fad and in my opinion are fucken stupid and a hazzard lol i was once gunna refit my room with leds but 5 grand later i invested that back into solar and hps /cmh and i tell u what i pay zero for electrical and still pull 10x the amount then any led grower.not to mention im running 4-6 lights were if i was to refit i could not fit the leds they wanted me to have in me grow room advanced platium wanted something like 20-25 leds lol were bestva came in around 30 led lights 30 fucken lights


Betsvas are pretty much the worst LEDs out there. They aren't even as efficient as a cheap 600w HPS. The lumiled LEDs they use in those arrays is ancient tech. 

New cobs and SMDs are almost twice as efficient as even the most efficient DE Gavita with a better spectrum and no hotspots. LED is going nowhere until a new technology can surpass it and it ain't HPS or CMH


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## DangerDavez (Apr 8, 2019)

Sir420 said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/t/led-strip-gurus-around-here-stop-by-and-check-out-this-vertical-setup-that-needs-tweaking.987102/
> 
> Jump over to this thread to check out the future of how grow rooms will be made to keep up with low market costs !!! All growers need to chip in to help growing community with any tips or knowelege they feel welcome


I just had a quick glance at your other thread. It got derailed pretty quick but I did get a pretty good idea of what you're planning.

These systems have pros and cons. They've been around for a while and I see why they can be attractive. That being said, I see them more as situationally better rather than strictly better. 

These systems are good for the same reason that any other SOG is good. They work well when height is an issue and because you can grow perpetually and pretty much flip to flower immediately ( though I give em time to adapt usually). 

The downside is that they aren't very practical for stretchier plants, they are cumbersome to work around and of course you need way more clones.


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## rob333 (Apr 10, 2019)

DangerDavez said:


> Betsvas are pretty much the worst LEDs out there. They aren't even as efficient as a cheap 600w HPS. The lumiled LEDs they use in those arrays is ancient tech.
> 
> New cobs and SMDs are almost twice as efficient as even the most efficient DE Gavita with a better spectrum and no hotspots. LED is going nowhere until a new technology can surpass it and it ain't HPS or CMH


cali light works high end leds were not much better and if i was to run diy cobs i would still not have enough room to fit them and being exposed no way i can run co2 fuck i blow half my house up lol


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## rob333 (Apr 10, 2019)

rob333 said:


> cali light works high end leds were not much better and if i was to run diy cobs i would still not have enough room to fit them and being exposed no way i can run co2 fuck i blow half my house up lol


and im not into exposed wires and drivers and at the end of the day i aint making a huge saving off my bill my mate runs a few leds and he is saving like 30 bucks big woop if it was 200-300 yea maybe but led aint saving u that much lol


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## rob333 (Apr 11, 2019)

nxsov180db said:


> Explain to me why you couldn't run co2? What scares you about having exposed wires? Yo don't plan on slapping your dick on them do you? lol


you run co2 with exposed wires and let me no what happens


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## rob333 (Apr 11, 2019)

rob333 said:


> you run co2 with exposed wires and let me no what happens


after 3 -4 runs them lights are gunna be useless as fuck


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## DangerDavez (Apr 11, 2019)

rob333 said:


> cali light works high end leds were not much better and if i was to run diy cobs i would still not have enough room to fit them and being exposed no way i can run co2 fuck i blow half my house up lol


Cali light works is the same crap they have in betsvas.

As for CO2 and exposed wires, I don't see what you're getting at. If your wires are arcing, you have bigger issues than CO2. If wiring plus CO2 were an issue you'd need to seal every single device so it's air tight. That includes HPS. 

If you aren't comfortable with wiring then look at HLG Rapid, Cutter. Hell just go for HPS or CMH. Just don't waste money on blurples. I would do some research before posting stuff like this


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## DangerDavez (Apr 11, 2019)

nxsov180db said:


> You realize CO2 is present in all air regardless if you are adding extra right? Do you know what CO2 is? I've been running CO2 with exposed wires, I'm not too sure what you think happens..


Boom.


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## MrX2017 (Jun 30, 2019)

......Lmao.... Boom???

I believe your phobia of your home blowing up into a million tooth picks, is propane, from CO2 generators leaking. Not CO2 lol

And I’m no expert but I’m pretty sure only commercial ventures are running propane burners... with any chance of the LP or Natural Gas leaking and going boom...


Correct me if I’m wrong
Small outfits like 99% of our members here use CO2 tanks with regulators to enrich the environment, not burners.

Not to mention exposed wiring on LEDs is low voltage at the solder pads. No way to arc unless you short it out with a tool or something. Even then no boom.
Just boom to your wallet buying a new led lol


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## zep_lover (Jul 5, 2019)

i run diy cxb 3590 lights i built.2000 watts total. i use an on demand propane water heater hooked to a co2 controller and no boom.this is the second grow set up like this i have done,the first had natural gas on demand water heater was only difference and still no boom.my lights have not had a problem and some are around 4 years old.


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## zep_lover (Jul 5, 2019)

why would anyone want to run tanks of co2?weekly trips to store and alot more money.1 15 pound propane tank from lowes last just about thirty days running 12 plants with 2000 total watts of light


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## Renfro (Jul 11, 2019)

Well tanks work for some people but I wouldn't wanna make even one trip to get co2 and have to pay for it too. My Co2 generators use less than 50 bucks a month for my whole basement of about 1300 sqft.


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## Renfro (Jul 11, 2019)

nxsov180db said:


> I've never used one.. Do they add much humidity or heat?


Yes they add a little humidity and a nice chunk of heat, they are best suited for larger grows. If your room is sealed well then it won't have to run much and thus won't add a ton of heat, just little spikes that you should size your AC to account for. If the room leaks a lot then it will run more adding more heat.


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## zep_lover (Jul 11, 2019)

mine runs for maybe 15 to 20 seconds at a time.i use a on demand water heater hooked to a co2 controller.


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## Renfro (Jul 11, 2019)

zep_lover said:


> mine runs for maybe 15 to 20 seconds at a time.i use a on demand water heater hooked to a co2 controller.


Do you run a pump and circulate the water to a radiator outside the room with a fan to get rid of the heat? I have seen people setup that way and it's pretty slick, run a generator and get rid of most of the heat. Do you have a carbon monoxide alarm just in case?


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## zep_lover (Jul 13, 2019)

i do r


Renfro said:


> Do you run a pump and circulate the water to a radiator outside the room with a fan to get rid of the heat? I have seen people setup that way and it's pretty slick, run a generator and get rid of most of the heat. Do you have a carbon monoxide alarm just in case?


i do run a pump.it is outside the room.it is in a twenty gallon storage bin filled 3/4 full of water.the water doesnt get hot enough to warrant a radiator.the only time it is a problem is when the 15 pound propane tank runs out.i have to unplug the pump and let the water cool off because it usually happens when i am away from the grow for hours or days.the pump heats the water if it runs non stop.right now i just change out the tank at thirty days and it is almost empty so only a little waste.15 to 20 dollars for thirty days is not bad
i do not run a carbon monoxide detector.my grow is in a pole barn and the room is sealed


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## Kenpark (Nov 6, 2019)

compared to before what differences did you find with the addition of co2 on the final yield?
thanks ...


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## Renfro (Nov 6, 2019)

zep_lover said:


> i do r
> 
> i do run a pump.it is outside the room.it is in a twenty gallon storage bin filled 3/4 full of water.the water doesnt get hot enough to warrant a radiator.the only time it is a problem is when the 15 pound propane tank runs out.i have to unplug the pump and let the water cool off because it usually happens when i am away from the grow for hours or days.the pump heats the water if it runs non stop.right now i just change out the tank at thirty days and it is almost empty so only a little waste.15 to 20 dollars for thirty days is not bad
> i do not run a carbon monoxide detector.my grow is in a pole barn and the room is sealed


They make a little device that will automatically switch from an empty tank to a full tank allowing you to refill the empty without interruption. Search for propane auto change


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## Frank Nitty (Nov 7, 2019)

DangerDavez said:


> Boom.


Not


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## Nizza (Nov 8, 2019)

I know co2 is a shielding gas which allows electricity to arc easier, but if its properly wired the only place any electricity should arc to is the ground and pop your circuit. Co2 is also non- combustible. I used to use co2 as a shielding gas when I did electric arc welding. some people are scared of handling compressed gas cylinders and that they'll blow up. I could see oxygen being a little scarier to use because it will propel a fire


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## Frank Nitty (Nov 8, 2019)

Nizza said:


> I know co2 is a shielding gas which allows electricity to arc easier, but if its properly wired the only place any electricity should arc to is the ground and pop your circuit. Co2 is also non- combustible. I used to use co2 as a shielding gas when I did electric arc welding. some people are scared of handling compressed gas cylinders and that they'll blow up. I could see oxygen being a little scarier to use because it will propel a fire


Teach!!!


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## HashBucket (Nov 8, 2019)

A few facts and opinions re: co2.

It is not flammable or combustible. People also think that oxygen is flammable because of the signs in hospitals "Oxy in use, no smoking". C02 does not burn, and neither does oxygen.

C02 is a great addition to a grow IF everything else is dialed in. If you have your feed just right, and lights just right, and everybody is happy ... add C02 and watch it go into over drive. If you add it before everything is dialed in, you'll have a mess to straighten out.

I've used both canned gas, and generated. They both have their positives and negatives. Burning makes for heat and moisture, so you need to run a dehumidifier, and _that_ makes more heat too. Canned is 'cleaner' but more expensive (in time and expenditures).

A carbon monoxide detector is not needed, because you are not generating carbon MONoxide. You are using carbon DIoxide. 
_Two_ molocules of oxygen.
Carbon monoxide is very poisonous.
Carbon dioxide is not at all poisonous.
It would take a LOT of carbon dioxide to hurt you, and it would be from displacing oxygen and a mammal would suffer from suffocation.

Use CO2, but add it last ... after everything else is balanced and running smoothly ...


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## Nizza (Nov 9, 2019)

That is the primary purpose of a shielding gas, to protect the molten metal from contaminants, but it also allows electricity to flow easier from point a to b in welding


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## Frank Nitty (Nov 9, 2019)

YOU CATS KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT EVERYTHING!!!YOU HAVE MY RESPECT AND ADMIRATION...


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## Nizza (Nov 9, 2019)

haha I really in the end of it all don't see any dangers in co2 unless the controller broke and you died from co2 poisoning
here's some good safety facts about co2 https://www.co2meter.com/blogs/news/30628801-smart-indoor-growing-with-co2

an increased yield without knowledge of the potential dangers in using co2, as with any type of growing equipment indoors should be thoroughly researched and proper safety precautions should be made

you too Nitty bro. Lots of love and respect bro. We are all here to help with what we got !


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## Frank Nitty (Nov 9, 2019)

Nizza said:


> haha I really in the end of it all don't see any dangers in co2 unless the controller broke and you died from co2 poisoning
> here's some good safety facts about co2 https://www.co2meter.com/blogs/news/30628801-smart-indoor-growing-with-co2
> 
> an increased yield without knowledge of the potential dangers in using co2, as with any type of growing equipment indoors should be thoroughly researched and proper safety precautions should be made
> ...


That's why I'm here!!! To learn and try to help someone else!!!


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## HashBucket (Nov 9, 2019)

Frank Nitty said:


> That's why I'm here!!! To learn and try to help someone else!!!


The more I learn the more I realize that I don't know much.
And, I learn something new every day.


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## Renfro (Nov 10, 2019)

Since we are talking welding:


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## hybridway2 (Nov 15, 2019)

So this guy never built his super light hu?
Got 50 l.f. of SunCloak that would save him a ton of time n money. But he's in the wind!!!


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## Older Dude (Nov 23, 2019)

rob333 said:


> cali light works high end leds were not much better and if i was to run diy cobs i would still not have enough room to fit them and being exposed no way i can run co2 fuck i blow half my house up lol


Rob, C02 isn't flammable if thats what your trying to say, 02 (oxygen) is. A gas leak in your propane system is another story, do the bubble test.


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## hybridway2 (Nov 23, 2019)

Older Dude said:


> Rob, C02 isn't flammable if thats what your trying to say, 02 (oxygen) is. A gas leak in your propane system is another story, do the bubble test.


When in a big room they use CO2 generators which are basically a bunch of pilots lit. Ran from propane or gas. Burned off to create CO2.


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## hybridway2 (Nov 23, 2019)

Wait a minute. Last year i remember a guy who had a huge tree in the middle of surrounding QB's. Is this the same dude i wonder?


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## lukio (Nov 24, 2019)

rob333 said:


> leds are a fad and in my opinion are fucken stupid and a hazzard


and now youre using led, robbo! hows it goin?


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## HashBucket (Nov 24, 2019)

Older Dude said:


> Rob, C02 isn't flammable if thats what your trying to say, 02 (oxygen) is. A gas leak in your propane system is another story, do the bubble test.


Well, you're half right.
Oxygen is not flammable. It aids in combustion.
Fire can't be without O2, but O2 itself doesn't burn. The object that's burning burns, and oxygen helps or fuels the process.
If oxygen burned, the entire atmosphere of the planet would catch fire and burn off the FIRST time I lit a bong back in 1967.


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## HashBucket (Nov 24, 2019)

rob333 said:


> eds are a fad and in my opinion are fucken stupid and a hazzard


Yea, I tend to agree.
Technology just isn't quite there yet.

But then, I think that the internet is a fad too -


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## Thundercat (Nov 24, 2019)

HashBucket said:


> Yea, I tend to agree.
> Technology just isn't quite there yet.
> 
> But then, I think that the internet is a fad too -


Lmao he is growing with LEDs now.....

You should really look into the tech again if you still think it “isn’t quite there”. I’ve been watching the LED market for the last 10 years feeling the same way until the last year or 2. The tech is absolutely “there”!


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## HashBucket (Nov 24, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> Lmao he is growing with LEDs now.....
> 
> You should really look into the tech again if you still think it “isn’t quite there”. I’ve been watching the LED market for the last 10 years feeling the same way until the last year or 2. The tech is absolutely “there”!


I actually am in the process of testing the Gavita pro 1000 right now. I have two of them in a room of 12 lights. So, they are right beside Gavita DE's. I am almost to turn ... and I am not impressed to tell you the truth. I will see what the weight is for those two sections when its done, but so far no bueno.

I'm going to leave them up for one more turn because we had a lot of syndromes with this run. The room is not really healthy, because of the PG&E power outages, so it's not a fair test. I also have to learn a lot about LED growing. I understand it makes a difference in just about everything.

If I can get equal weight production, and save 35% on energy I will do it. But I won't do it if it costs weight. At $1500 per light not counting controller and wiring, that's a lot of money for ten more lights - if it pencils out I'll do it.


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## Thundercat (Nov 24, 2019)

HashBucket said:


> I actually am in the process of testing the Gavita pro 1000 right now. I have two of them in a room of 12 lights. So, they are right beside Gavita DE's. I am almost to turn ... and I am not impressed to tell you the truth. I will see what the weight is for those two sections when its done, but so far no bueno.
> 
> I'm going to leave them up for one more turn because we had a lot of syndromes with this run. The room is not really healthy, because of the PG&E power outages, so it's not a fair test. I also have to learn a lot about LED growing. I understand it makes a difference in just about everything.
> 
> If I can get equal weight production, and save 35% on energy I will do it. But I won't do it if it costs weight. At $1500 per light not counting controller and wiring, that's a lot of money for ten more lights - if it pencils out I'll do it.


Well running them side by side in the same room trying to grow with them the same way isn't going to give you ideal results. Your room is dialed in for growing with HPS currently. LED requires a different environment from everything I've read over the years. I personally don't have LED yet, but the next light I buy will be for sure. However if your room isn't healthy in the first place thats not gonna give ideal results either . Those Gavita LEDs seem alright, I've seen a few guys posting grows with them and some damn fine plants. I would think a commercial profit guy like you would know that you need to dial in the room when you make any major changes. Things don't just stay the same when they change .


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## HashBucket (Nov 24, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> Well running them side by side in the same room trying to grow with them the same way isn't going to give you ideal results. Your room is dialed in for growing with HPS currently. LED requires a different environment from everything I've read over the years. I personally don't have LED yet, but the next light I buy will be for sure. However if your room isn't healthy in the first place thats not gonna give ideal results either . Those Gavita LEDs seem alright, I've seen a few guys posting grows with them and some damn fine plants. I would think a commercial profit guy like you would know that you need to dial in the room when you make any major changes. Things don't just stay the same when they change .


Oh, I know.
LoL
Problem is that this operation is being run by committee.
Sometimes I have to 'sell' the obvious to these guys.

Yea, this 'test' is really kinda bust. I know that. And, having to keep them mixed might never result in a fair test.
I will do it again next turn; but I have to keep the lights all together like that ... just no room.

We're getting great results with what we got; so I suspect the boss will just say to sell the LED's and put the HPS back.


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## Thundercat (Nov 24, 2019)

HashBucket said:


> Oh, I know.
> LoL
> Problem is that this operation is being run by committee.
> Sometimes I have to 'sell' the obvious to these guys.
> ...


You've said you run 2 rooms. I would switch one whole room if you want to actually see the improvements. If you set up one room and dial it in properly with the help of all the experienced LED growers that are around here, then you could blow your bosses mind, and 35% electrical savings over your whole campus would be way more profit then the 8k they get from chopping plants 2 weeks early. Hell maybe they would even let you finish the grow cycle properly on the LED room so you could really see the results, that would be novel.


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## hybridway2 (Nov 24, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> Lmao he is growing with LEDs now.....
> 
> You should really look into the tech again if you still think it “isn’t quite there”. I’ve been watching the LED market for the last 10 years feeling the same way until the last year or 2. The tech is absolutely “there”!


100% agree!!!


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## HashBucket (Nov 24, 2019)

And I agree with both of the above posters ...
I wish I had the power to do just that Thunder ... I really do.
But, I'm not working with _my_ money. And the guy that pays the band names the tune, ya know? I'm just the conductor.

What I was trying to do is this: "The test is over and I'm here to report findings. Doing a test of two different types of lighting systems in the same room is not optimal. In fact it will affect results adversely. BUT, with that said, I still got great results. Increase weight under those lights of x%, better tricome production (see comparative pictures), and computed power savings of x%. I recommend switching an entire room to further test with no interference from other lighting sources."

That's what I was TRYING to do ... sell the boss on something that is obvious to us.

But, getting approval on $20,000 in upgrades, and a down room for two weeks (another $5000) ... when I can't say any of that is unlikely.
We are turning that room next week, I will do my computations, and prolly not report them ... but do it again.

Oh, and the 8 week cut thing ... not gonna change. It's what our customers want; and we give a paying customer what she wants, not what she needs.


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## rob333 (Nov 26, 2019)

i run 2 quantum baords atm punching co2 in my grow tent i tell ya right now i have sealed most my wires as it makes a pretty wired fizzle sound on the boards if i dont lol


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## rob333 (Nov 27, 2019)

nxsov180db said:


> What? That doesn’t make any sense lol. If your wires are making any noise you e got a loose connection or something.


yea the connections are sealed there's been cases all over were I live of grow rooms going up from co2 leaks look it up lol


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## rob333 (Nov 27, 2019)

nxsov180db said:


> What? That doesn’t make any sense lol. If your wires are making any noise you e got a loose connection or something.


Your prob talking about yeast and sugar co2 lol we use bottles and regulators


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## HashBucket (Nov 27, 2019)

rob333 said:


> yea the connections are sealed there's been cases all over were I live of grow rooms going up from co2 leaks look it up lol


going up? going up where?
where should I look?


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## Thundercat (Nov 27, 2019)

rob333 said:


> yea the connections are sealed there's been cases all over were I live of grow rooms going up from co2 leaks look it up lol


Lmao nope, CO2 is not flammable or explosive you have no idea what you are talking about. If grow houses are blowing up "from CO2" the only option would be a gas-operated Co2 generator igniting or exploding from a leak.


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## HashBucket (Nov 27, 2019)

IF CO2 was flammable, the world would have burned up a long time ago.
Same with O2.
Not flammable.

Every time I breathe out, I excrete co2 ... I'd be Puff the Magic Dragon if I could burn it.
Though my 'morning breath' has been known to singe hair.


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## Go go n chill (Dec 23, 2019)

Lol


nxsov180db said:


> Explain to me why you couldn't run co2? What scares you about having exposed wires? Yo don't plan on slapping your dick on them do you? lol


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## Lord Bonkey (Dec 24, 2019)

dear dummies, Co2 is a INERT gas used as an atmospheric shield in high amperage welding situation...
it doesnt blow up XD


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## DailyBlastin (Dec 25, 2019)

between robs claims of pulling "10x more than any led grower" "co2 is gonna blow my house up" and "my wires fizzle" im starting to get the sense that hes not very well educated..


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