# Have You Seen Any Weird Shit?



## ace1059 (Mar 9, 2008)

OK so i was in upper state new york on a indian res. for a mission trip with my church. So its been like a week and im walkin back to the camping are with sum of the kids (we just got back from some tribal dance the elders performed) and it was gettin dark, so w were taking this trail through the woods and i kept thinking that there was somthing in the woods cuz i kept hearing stuff, i just ignored it cuz i thought it was just a squirrel or sum shit. but then this huge ass dead tree falls over in front of the trail and im like wtf that could been on us, so were almost to the camps and im looking back and i swear i saw like this head pop out behind a tree (not at the bottom of the tree but like 20 feet up) the head looked two have 2 horns, not like 2 little spikes but the type of horns that was one the movie "hell boy" (u know when he groes them out) so ya i was really fukin scared and we ran back. those damn indians!!! just kiddin bout the damn indian thing lol.......believe or dont believe me


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## korvette1977 (Mar 9, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> OK so i was in upper state new york on a indian res. for a mission trip with my church. So its been like a week and im walkin back to the camping are with sum of the kids (we just got back from some tribal dance the elders performed) and it was gettin dark, so w were taking this trail through the woods and i kept thinking that there was somthing in the woods cuz i kept hearing stuff, i just ignored it cuz i thought it was just a squirrel or sum shit. but then this huge ass dead tree falls over in front of the trail and im like wtf that could been on us, so were almost to the camps and im looking back and i swear i saw like this head pop out behind a tree (not at the bottom of the tree but like 20 feet up) the head looked two have 2 horns, not like 2 little spikes but the type of horns that was one the movie "hell boy" (u know when he groes them out) so ya i was really fukin scared and we ran back. those damn indians!!! just kiddin bout the damn indian thing lol.......believe or dont believe me
> View attachment 81066


\


when i was a kid .. I used to look for the tidy bowl man in the boat in the toilet ..


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## Bamm Bamm (Mar 11, 2008)

Were you high? j/k

It was probably one of those crazy tree climbing deer..


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## hom36rown (Mar 11, 2008)

hadnt slept in a while Im guessing


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## t dub c (Mar 11, 2008)

When I was a little kid, I was at some deerlake on van island. I was walking alone towwords to lake down some trail collecting slugs and shit, and something started to throuw chunks of this fallen tree at me that was all decaying beside the trail. I only saw a super hairy hand and a curly haired hairy faced thing. It was hideing behind the big fallen tree, I was soo scared I ran crying to my father. He thought it was just some teenagers playing jokes but to this day I dont think it was. I really think it was a saskqwach or bigfoot or something ,but I still wonder about that thing.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 11, 2008)

I woke up1 night and seen this man dressed in a long black coat and a top hat. he looked like an undertaker from the 1800,s and he was about 6 1/2 foot tall and skinny , wtf ....

i new it wasent real and it dident scare me i just closed my eyes then open them again an it was away then it scared the shit outa me haha 

But i think i was still sort of half sleeping it was still weird as fck man


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## crazy-mental (Mar 11, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> OK so i was in upper state new york on a indian res. for a mission trip with my church. So its been like a week and im walkin back to the camping are with sum of the kids (we just got back from some tribal dance the elders performed) and it was gettin dark, so w were taking this trail through the woods and i kept thinking that there was somthing in the woods cuz i kept hearing stuff, i just ignored it cuz i thought it was just a squirrel or sum shit. but then this huge ass dead tree falls over in front of the trail and im like wtf that could been on us, so were almost to the camps and im looking back and i swear i saw like this head pop out behind a tree (not at the bottom of the tree but like 20 feet up) the head looked two have 2 horns, not like 2 little spikes but the type of horns that was one the movie "hell boy" (u know when he groes them out) so ya i was really fukin scared and we ran back. those damn indians!!! just kiddin bout the damn indian thing lol.......believe or dont believe me
> View attachment 81066


i bet it was the indians just fucking with you.
i bet they do the same thing to all the kids.
you wasnt giving the mission kids, LSD  where you?


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## Erniedytn (Mar 11, 2008)

t dub c said:


> When I was a little kid, I was at some deerlake on van island. I was walking alone towwords to lake down some trail collecting slugs and shit, and something started to throuw chunks of this fallen tree at me that was all decaying beside the trail. I only saw a super hairy hand and a curly haired hairy faced thing. It was hideing behind the big fallen tree, I was soo scared I ran crying to my father. He thought it was just some teenagers playing jokes but to this day I dont think it was. I really think it was a saskqwach or bigfoot or something ,but I still wonder about that thing.


Bigfoot is notorious for throwing shit at people.


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## email468 (Mar 11, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> OK so i was in upper state new york on a indian res. for a mission trip with my church. So its been like a week and im walkin back to the camping are with sum of the kids (we just got back from some tribal dance the elders performed) and it was gettin dark, so w were taking this trail through the woods and i kept thinking that there was somthing in the woods cuz i kept hearing stuff, i just ignored it cuz i thought it was just a squirrel or sum shit. but then this huge ass dead tree falls over in front of the trail and im like wtf that could been on us, so were almost to the camps and im looking back and i swear i saw like this head pop out behind a tree (not at the bottom of the tree but like 20 feet up) the head looked two have 2 horns, not like 2 little spikes but the type of horns that was one the movie "hell boy" (u know when he groes them out) so ya i was really fukin scared and we ran back. those damn indians!!! just kiddin bout the damn indian thing lol.......believe or dont believe me
> View attachment 81066


I am not saying this is what you saw - but i would imagine seeing one of these things peeking at you out of a tree would at least be a bit disconcerting...if not downright scary.


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## ace1059 (Mar 11, 2008)

maybve but all i know i was fuking scared! but there is probably a reasonable explanation... lol naawww i didnt brig any weed....maybe.....lol


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## email468 (Mar 11, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> maybve but all i know i was fuking scared! but there is probably a reasonable explanation... lol naawww i didnt brig any weed....maybe.....lol


I remember waking up and seeing an eye staring right at me through my bedroom window - turned out to be a squirrel - but had my heart pounding in my throat until I my mind could register what it was!

Had it quickly run away i might never have known what it was.


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## LION~of~ZION (Mar 11, 2008)

I've seen plenty of 'weird' shit

its usually been what human beings have done to themselves or others

I'm talking about everyday life

some of that stuff is stranger then fiction or even the supernatural believe it or not


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## ace1059 (Mar 11, 2008)

email468 said:


> I remember waking up and seeing an eye staring right at me through my bedroom window - turned out to be a squirrel - but had my heart pounding in my throat until I my mind could register what it was!
> 
> Had it quickly run away i might never have known what it was.


haha that actually has happened to me except it was a escape convict lol the police was chasing him and he tryd to get into my room to hide! now i have a machete in my room!


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## mattso101 (Mar 11, 2008)

Walking through the wood with my buddy drinkin a few brew pops. cam up over a rocky crest and we see a wolve like 10 feet away. whoa!! I shat my self We look over in the wood about 20 feet away and there was two more. oh shit! we fucked off outta the real fast, ended up hitcjhiking out and not staying another night


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## email468 (Mar 11, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> haha that actually has happened to me except it was a escape convict lol the police was chasing him and he tryd to get into my room to hide! now i have a machete in my room!


oh man! i'll take the killer squirrel any day over the escaped convict!!


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## email468 (Mar 11, 2008)

mattso101 said:


> Walking through the wood with my buddy drinkin a few brew pops. cam up over a rocky crest and we see a wolve like 10 feet away. whoa!! I shat my self We look over in the wood about 20 feet away and there was two more. oh shit! we fucked off outta the real fast, ended up hitcjhiking out and not staying another night


smart move - i'm not wolf expert but i'm guessing where there's one...

still - pretty amazing - i'll bet your glad you had a chance to see it and equally glad to have gotten away from it without incident!


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## mattso101 (Mar 11, 2008)

It was freaky but very cool aswell! the wolves were very chill. I am sure they wanted as much to do with us as we did with them.


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## oscarmiya (Mar 11, 2008)

Ok, Believe me or not... I don't care.. Hell I don't want to believe myself but I seen it. I was about 16 at the time and I remember it like it was yesterday. I do not know wtf it was.
I lived out in the country and only had a few older neighbors and a good friend about a mile away. I was completely surrounded by Woods and Fields otherwise. I took our boxer for a walk about mid-day down my back country road towards my friends house a mile away. About half way there, there is a field with a Pond about 200 yards off the road. There is a small tree line and another field continuing on, edging a very large thick woods. As I was walking, staring ahead, I notice my dog is walking with his ears up and more attentive towards the field to my left. When I looked over to my left, I didn't know what to think. About 150 yards out on the edge of the front field, almost near the pond is a very large, light brown and white.... creature.. walking away from me, upright on two legs. It looked to be about 8ft tall and every step seemed to be looong semi-speedy strides. Its Brown and White fur looked to be longer, I could see it waving with every step. The next part is what started to get my heart racing. This 'Yetti' looking creature stopped when my dog barked after growling non-stop at what he saw. The creature turned his upper body towards me, almost as if he was 'looking' at me (or the dog)... but I NEVER seen its head. It was almost like it was flat on the shoulders, very broad- like a extremely large Football player.... without a head. It starred at me long enough for me to start freaking out and trying to think of what the fuck I was going to do if it came towards me. Right when I was just getting ready to say fuck it and take off back home in a crazy sprint, the Creature turned back away and continued walking, a little faster towards the back field and eventually into the woods. AS SOON as it went into the woods I ran as fast I could back home and Called my friend. Told him to meet me down half way with a knife or weapon or something.... Mind you at the time my adrenaline is still rushing so I sound like I am crazy. My friend was like wtf but agreed and we met up in the same spot about 20 minutes after I seen the 'creature'. We looked everywhere for prints or any kind of signs but of course, nothing. My friend said I sounded like I just seen a ghost on the phone. Never heard me sound like that. I was seriously shocked like.. wtf did I just see...
I still don't want to believe I saw a 'Yetti'... Frankly I don't really believe in a Yetti but DAMN did it look very similar to what we know Yettie's as... The other speculation I had was possibly a horse. BUT it was NOT a fucking horse. It had 2 legs, not 4. There was NO horse tracks and there would have been tracks left by a horse that big... There was no head and I would have noticed a Horse's head.. I honestly don't think it was another person playing a Hoax. I live in a small town and like I said... back in the country with very few and old neighbors who I couldn't imagine moving the way this THING was moving. The woods is a VERY large woods and there is other weird shit back there (like old tiny shacks [like 4' x 4'] someone would stay in and a weird ass grave site I came across...) but this single site I will never forget. I typed a fucking book describing it, hopefully not too long of a read, its like a snapshot in my mind and figured I would share for all the people who just lit up to read this thread.


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## ace1059 (Mar 11, 2008)

....coool!! that would be fukin weird to see, coool story tho


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## Bamm Bamm (Mar 12, 2008)

theres some crazy fucking shit out there.. I believe we are not alone by any means.. Why the fuck with all the planets would we be the only one with creature on it? Why the fuck is it hard to beleive that there are Yetti and that they are smart enough to hide from us for years and years...

anything is possible.. I saw a ghost when I was a kid in a Hotel Room in LA across the street Disneyland.. I woke up in the middle of the night and there was this fucking creepy looking figure standing over me. Scared the living fuck out of me I pulled the covered over my head and was making noise and woke up my parents and there was nothing in the room of course my dad did a nice inspection of the room with me behind him with my bootknife(I always carried a knife as a kid)... I know it was a fucking ghost though I know what I saw and I know i was seeing things....


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## Erniedytn (Mar 12, 2008)

oscarmiya said:


> Ok, Believe me or not... I don't care.. Hell I don't want to believe myself but I seen it. I was about 16 at the time and I remember it like it was yesterday. I do not know wtf it was.
> I lived out in the country and only had a few older neighbors and a good friend about a mile away. I was completely surrounded by Woods and Fields otherwise. I took our boxer for a walk about mid-day down my back country road towards my friends house a mile away. About half way there, there is a field with a Pond about 200 yards off the road. There is a small tree line and another field continuing on, edging a very large thick woods. As I was walking, staring ahead, I notice my dog is walking with his ears up and more attentive towards the field to my left. When I looked over to my left, I didn't know what to think. About 150 yards out on the edge of the front field, almost near the pond is a very large, light brown and white.... creature.. walking away from me, upright on two legs. It looked to be about 8ft tall and every step seemed to be looong semi-speedy strides. Its Brown and White fur looked to be longer, I could see it waving with every step. The next part is what started to get my heart racing. This 'Yetti' looking creature stopped when my dog barked after growling non-stop at what he saw. The creature turned his upper body towards me, almost as if he was 'looking' at me (or the dog)... but I NEVER seen its head. It was almost like it was flat on the shoulders, very broad- like a extremely large Football player.... without a head. It starred at me long enough for me to start freaking out and trying to think of what the fuck I was going to do if it came towards me. Right when I was just getting ready to say fuck it and take off back home in a crazy sprint, the Creature turned back away and continued walking, a little faster towards the back field and eventually into the woods. AS SOON as it went into the woods I ran as fast I could back home and Called my friend. Told him to meet me down half way with a knife or weapon or something.... Mind you at the time my adrenaline is still rushing so I sound like I am crazy. My friend was like wtf but agreed and we met up in the same spot about 20 minutes after I seen the 'creature'. We looked everywhere for prints or any kind of signs but of course, nothing. My friend said I sounded like I just seen a ghost on the phone. Never heard me sound like that. I was seriously shocked like.. wtf did I just see...
> I still don't want to believe I saw a 'Yetti'... Frankly I don't really believe in a Yetti but DAMN did it look very similar to what we know Yettie's as... The other speculation I had was possibly a horse. BUT it was NOT a fucking horse. It had 2 legs, not 4. There was NO horse tracks and there would have been tracks left by a horse that big... There was no head and I would have noticed a Horse's head.. I honestly don't think it was another person playing a Hoax. I live in a small town and like I said... back in the country with very few and old neighbors who I couldn't imagine moving the way this THING was moving. The woods is a VERY large woods and there is other weird shit back there (like old tiny shacks [like 4' x 4'] someone would stay in and a weird ass grave site I came across...) but this single site I will never forget. I typed a fucking book describing it, hopefully not too long of a read, its like a snapshot in my mind and figured I would share for all the people who just lit up to read this thread.


Thank you for posting this. It is a PERFECT example of my main argument when it comes to things like this. You saw SOMETHING...hands down. Now for all of the Naysayers on here who want to be rational and pick things apart, lets start with this story. 

This guy saw something out there, and unless he's either lying or hallucinating, there has to be an explanation for what it was. Now I don't know about you, but I have never seen a headless Yeti before,nor is it recognized anywhere as being a known species, but there it was plain as day looking at this guy. Anybody wanna explain it "rationally"?


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## Erniedytn (Mar 12, 2008)

No takers? *ahem*...email....


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## email468 (Mar 12, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> No takers? *ahem*...email....


No thanks. No need to debunk a story that begins "Hell I don't believe it myself"....

It wouldn't make any change in how you react to evidence and it may insult oscarmiya -which I have no wish to do.


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## Erniedytn (Mar 12, 2008)

So your basically saying that he's full of shit?


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## email468 (Mar 12, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> So your basically saying that he's full of shit?


No, I am not saying anything of that sort.


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## Erniedytn (Mar 12, 2008)

So then how would you insult him?

Oscarmiya, do you care if email picks this story apart?


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## email468 (Mar 12, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> So then how would you insult him?
> 
> Oscarmiya, do you care if email picks this story apart?


I'll pass. I don't think he posted his story on a thread inviting him to post a weird story expecting it to be picked apart.
I only expressed skepticism when asked and if I can see fruits of my labor.
You "pick his story apart" if you want.


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## Erniedytn (Mar 12, 2008)

Because I believe that stuff like that is out there; I'm not out to debunk anything. You, on the other hand, feel the need to debunk everything, so I wanted to see how you tackle a "fresh" sighting/story like this right from the witnesses mouth. All of the other stuff I usually talk about is from another web sight, or a friend of a friend who had a friend that thought he saw Bigfoot/UFO/Alien/Yeti/Ghost/what have you. This is different because it is a first hand account.


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## email468 (Mar 12, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> Because I believe that stuff like that is out there; I'm not out to debunk anything. You, on the other hand, feel the need to debunk everything, so I wanted to see how you tackle a "fresh" sighting/story like this right from the witnesses mouth. All of the other stuff I usually talk about is from another web sight, or a friend of a friend who had a friend that thought he saw Bigfoot/UFO/Alien/Yeti/Ghost/what have you. This is different because it is a first hand account.


A first hand account is no different than a second hand or third hand account. No physical evidence, no corroborating testimony. Oscar says he doesn't know what he saw he only says what he thinks it wasn't. There is nothing to debunk since there isn't any physical evidence. Oscar saw something strange that he can't explain. That is evidence for ... drum roll please ... absolutely nothing.


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## email468 (Mar 12, 2008)

I will add that I spent much of my early life roaming the forests and fields and have seen both glimpses of unknown (to me) creatures as well as some longer sightings of strange, unidentified animals. again, that proves what? nothing.


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## Erniedytn (Mar 12, 2008)

Your already talking in circles....I give up man.


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## email468 (Mar 12, 2008)

my money would be on some kind of mangy bear. it would explain the odd way of walking and the ability to walk on hind legs and would also explain the odd coloration (bears vary widely in color - especially in the sunshine). Could it have been a bigfoot, alien or some other unknown creature - sure it could have been. But my money would be bet on an ordinary creature that was misperceived.


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## email468 (Mar 12, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> Your already talking in circles....I give up man.


how am i talking in circles?


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 12, 2008)

Im not 1 to believe in ghosts and all that stuff but that night i woke up there defently was a image of a tall man dressed in dark clothes standing above me stright away i new it wasent human or real and was away once i opened my eyes after it scared the shit out of me but. I defently new it was a tall undertaker man image ,ghost, i duno 
i wasent high or asleep still and not looking a fuss thats ture stuff 
what could that of been ?


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## email468 (Mar 12, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> Im not 1 to believe in ghosts and all that stuff but that night i woke up there defently was a image of a tall man dressed in dark clothes standing above me stright away i new it wasent human or real and was away once i opened my eyes after it scared the shit out of me but. I defently new it was a tall undertaker man image ,ghost, i duno
> i wasent high or asleep still and not looking a fuss thats ture stuff
> what could that of been ?


a dream remnant, a hallucination, a ghost, a demon, an alien, a ???


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## Erniedytn (Mar 12, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> Im not 1 to believe in ghosts and all that stuff but that night i woke up there defently was a image of a tall man dressed in dark clothes standing above me stright away i new it wasent human or real and was away once i opened my eyes after it scared the shit out of me but. I defently new it was a tall undertaker man image ,ghost, i duno
> i wasent high or asleep still and not looking a fuss thats ture stuff
> what could that of been ?


Who knows man...there's no "evidence".


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## email468 (Mar 12, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> Who knows man...there's no "evidence".


scientifically correct. good job.


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## Erniedytn (Mar 12, 2008)

email468 said:


> scientifically correct. good job.









Your a fuckin trip dude! As aggrivated as you get me sometimes you always come up with something to make me laugh.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 12, 2008)

my word is the evidence .........


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 12, 2008)

There no evidence in the "theorys" or "beings" thats use talk about daily as if its true


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## tckfui (Mar 12, 2008)

if eyewitnes report is enough to lock somone away for life, its good enough for me to say bigfoot lives in this dudes back yard


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## email468 (Mar 12, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> my word is the evidence .........


let's see how well that works. My word or evidence is you were dreaming and didn't know it. Who is right? we don't know so no real evidence. 

Real evidence can be reproduced and falsified. Experiences, one of which you are describing, is not scientifically sound evidence. That doesn't mean what you are saying isn't real or true. It just means it is not acceptable scientific evidence and isn't proof of anything.

Eyewitness testimony, while acceptable in a courtroom, is not valid as scientific evidence. Science has significantly higher standards which forensic evidence can not compare.


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## email468 (Mar 12, 2008)

tckfui said:


> if eyewitnes report is enough to lock somone away for life, its good enough for me to say bigfoot lives in this dudes back yard


I repeat. eyewitness testimony is, unfortunately acceptable in a court of law, but unacceptable as scientific evidence. Science has higher standards.

You make a good point - how many folks have been put in jail by eyewitness (anecdotal) evidence and then later exonerated or found not guilty through DNA testing (scientific evidence)? 

Does that make my point crystal clear?


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 12, 2008)

There no evidence in the "theorys" or "beings" thats use talk about daily as if its true so why not , and if u dont believe me i really dont care


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## tckfui (Mar 12, 2008)

DAMN THAT DNS TESTING!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
I said good enough for me... however I can be convinced by anyone


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## Erniedytn (Mar 12, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> my word is the evidence .........


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## Erniedytn (Mar 12, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> if u dont believe me i really dont care


I believe you.


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## email468 (Mar 12, 2008)

tckfui said:


> DAMN THAT DNS TESTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> I said good enough for me... however I can be convinced by anyone


you caught that before the edit - that's what happens when you work in IT - i can't even type the word serve anymore without adding a "r" at the end 

but it is more proof that our minds play tricks on us all the time.


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## email468 (Mar 12, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> There no evidence in the "theorys" or "beings" thats use talk about daily as if its true so why not , and if u dont believe me i really dont care


i believe you believe you saw what you did. I don't understand what else you are saying here.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 12, 2008)

Im just saying more or less what i seen would be more evidence than any scentific thoughts about it ,well to me becouse i believe what i seen weather they believe me is another thing ?


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## email468 (Mar 12, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> Im just saying more or less what i seen world be more evidence than any scentific thoughts about it ,well to me becouse i believe what i seen weather they believe me is another thing ?


I understand. It is far easier to trust your own eyes than some theory.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Mar 12, 2008)

Cool thats all i was trying 2 say , The thread was seen any weird shit ,


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## email468 (Mar 12, 2008)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> Cool thats all i was trying 2 say , The thread was seen any weird shit ,


Exactly. I also have seen, felt and experienced some weird shit. I look for natural explanations which I don't always find but doesn't mean one doesn't exist. But sharing weird experiences was the point of the thread.


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## AfrikGanj (Mar 12, 2008)




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## AfrikGanj (Mar 12, 2008)

wen i was 7or so i went to soccer practice and was spent wen i got home i used to walk home and just crash on my bed not sleeping tho,most times i experienced this weird flight through the window my dogs barked at me.i didnt toke wen i was seven.wats a sasquach?


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## tckfui (Mar 12, 2008)

bigfoot.
when I was like 10 I think I flew a few times  I would wake up and fall slam into my bed after like a 2 foot drop, it was cool but weird


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## Novex (Mar 12, 2008)

tckfui said:


> bigfoot.
> when I was like 10 I think I flew a few times  I would wake up and fall slam into my bed after like a 2 foot drop, it was cool but weird


 
Ive had the same damn thing happen to me man....

Fall... straight down (you would feel it if it was different, like sitting up) 

Scared the shit out of me. It only happened once a long time ago but I remember it vividly.

Wierd shit


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## oscarmiya (Mar 12, 2008)

Wow.
Didn't expect the feedback lol. Just to clear something up here, I am by no means saying I saw a Bigfoot, like I said... I saw something that resembled what we know Bigfoot as. As for what it was.. I honestly have no idea.

I am one who mostly believes only in scientifically proven facts. If one of you guys told me that exact story, I would have read it, judged the read, and instantly would have came to the silent conclusion: you did not see a Yetti... possibly even think your full of shit or possibly just a good story teller. Just being honest.

There is really nothing to this story except for it is just that, a story of something weird I seen, like the title of this thread implied. I am not classifying what I saw as anything however I *did *see something that was unrecognizable to any species around this area. As email pointed out, I really don't want to believe myself but I know I wasn't hallucinating. That 'story' hasn't changed in less than 10 years, I was honestly shocked. I will never forget that shit.

I welcome anyone to debunk what I saw even though it's really kind of hard _(impossible)_ to debunk the unknown. If you can come up with any animal.. or creature alike native to North America, anywhere from Chicago, IL to Detroit MI, somewhere around the most southern great lake... that even slightly resembles what I described.. let me know!

Just to cross bears off, there has been no recorded sightings of any bears in my area. I haven't even 'heard' of anyone seeing a bear around me.
It was weird. Don't know what it was. Being as I primarily rely on facts and scientific evidence, I HAVE to assume it was another person playing a Hoax. Honestly though, just doesn't seem like it would happen to me in my little town in the middle of nowhere. 

Its kind of like the Bible... Any one 'answer' is completely hypothetical. Don't believe, it was any specific creature or animal.. but you can believe I did describe in as much detail.. what the hell I saw. Draw your own conclusions.. if it makes sense- share it cause I would love to figure out what the hell that was so I can put this story to rest.


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## Erniedytn (Mar 12, 2008)

I don't know what you saw either dude, but that is a good story. Things like that intrigue me. Could it have been someone playing a hoax? Very good possibility. But if it was, is there anyone you know that would have went to the trouble? Was it Halloween? What ever it was, it would be cool to find out....hoax or not.

Really I was just using your first hand story of something out of the ordinary to figure out a thought process; try to look at things from a different point of view ya know. Thank you, again, for sharing it.


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## oscarmiya (Mar 12, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> I don't know what you saw either dude, but that is a good story. Things like that intrigue me. Could it have been someone playing a hoax? Very good possibility. But if it was, is there anyone you know that would have went to the trouble? Was it Halloween? What ever it was, it would be cool to find out....hoax or not.
> 
> Really I was just using your first hand story of something out of the ordinary to figure out a thought process; try to look at things from a different point of view ya know. Thank you, again, for sharing it.


No problem at all and I am glad you found interest in it. It was not Halloween and the only neighbors I had were a few old people and my one friend. Personally I think it was very unlikely it was a person playing a hoax... but that is the only thing that seems logical to me.
I do understand the example you were making. This is not a story that has been altered or passed through 4,5,6 people. I am truly being sincere. For that exact reason I welcome any kind of debunking but like I said, its nearly impossible to debunk the unknown however I will answer any question with complete honesty if anyone feels they want to pick at my story or just plain flat out interested.

I love to debate and for some reason I find pleasure in proving someone wrong but I can't stand to be proved wrong myself. I have thoroughly researched every possibility to explain what I saw, still nothing. I am over people giving me shit about the situation. I know what I saw, I know there is not and will never be an explanation and that is by far the one thing that has bugged and ate at my ass ever since. Peace fella's, hope you burned one before you opened this thread! Roll it up!


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## Erniedytn (Mar 12, 2008)

> "When you eliminate the impossible, then whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."


I would love to apply this statement to this story, but unfortunately there are too many possibilities. 

We can rule out a bear, and a horse for sure. Plus, you say it walked on 2 legs, so that rules out ANY 4 legged animal. 

We still cannot rule out someone playing a hoax, but you did say that was unlikely. Are there any stories of "old crazy people" living anywhere in the woods near that area?

Then of course we have the possibility that it was Bigfoot (assuming that Bigfoot is real), but then again you say it wasn't Bigfoot, but more like a Yeti, which has white hair and live in the snowy mountains (again, assuming that the Yeti is real). This is where it gets tricky for me because we CANNOT rule this out as we cannot DISPROVE it's existance. There is more evidence that it DOES exist than not.

That leaves us with:
1. Someone playing a hoax.
2. Someone doing something weird/crazy/horrific that you just stumbled upon.
3. Bigfoot/Yeti

Can we rule any of these 3 things out 100% in your opinion oscarmiya?

email, since I'm doing my "homework" did I miss anything here? I figure that if I can think like a skeptic, I will be better equipped for the argument next time.


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## email468 (Mar 12, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> I would love to apply this statement to this story, but unfortunately there are too many possibilities.
> 
> We can rule out a bear, and a horse for sure. Plus, you say it walked on 2 legs, so that rules out ANY 4 legged animal.
> 
> ...


Since you asked - you can't rule out a bear and leave bigfoot in there as a possibility. I mean, we know bears exist and can walk on two legs. Excellent job on including the hoax possibility. If I were grading, I would count your number 2 and number 3 as the same thing.


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## oscarmiya (Mar 12, 2008)

Well... 
There was one old dude. He was real old. He didn't exactly LIVE in the woods but he spent most all of his time there. He had a house about a mile and half from where I was at the time. This guy was probably about 65 years old. I want to rule his ass out as playing a prank like that because I couldn't Imagen that man walking like what I saw and doing something like that BUT then again this mother fucker all he did when he was chop wood. He had no electric in his house and he spent about 90% of his time in the woods, gathering wood. I am pretty sure he is the one who built the 4x4 shacks out there too. Some of them had shit in them.. like old magazines and some old radio phonograph things.. all beat up and shit... real weird shit.. this guy freaked ALL of my friends out, including me on more than one occasion. For example.. This dude had beaten down wheel barrel tracks going all over through out the woods where he gathered wood and was bringing it to where ever the hell he brought it. If he was out in the woods, he HAD a wheel barrel with him that he was pushing. So I was out Hunting, Deer Hunting and I was walking out to my stand. My brother was with me... Walking along and the next thing I hear was some grunt mumble sound come from behind me. I stopped and turned around with my gun raising to my shoulder not knowing what the fuck was behind me and what do I see.. this old mother fucker WITH his wheel barrel about 10 feet behind me. I dont know how the hell he got that close behind us while we were walking, TRYING to not scare any deer. He started trying to talk to me and my brother but he could barely talk... or I could barely understand him. Almost like he didn't know english but could some what mumble shit out here and there. Dude looks like he was about 90 but he was my friends neighbor and my friends Mom has known him for a while and said he was in his 60's. Also.. this dude NEVER wore shoes... When he was out in the woods.. he was barefoot the ENTIRE time.. 

I am getting side tracked in my little adventures but all and all I don't think it was that guy. He was only about 5 ft tall, maybe a hair taller and Died about a year later from natural causes _(pretty sure he had a stroke)_. I wouldn't put anything paste that creepy old bastard but again, I just couldn't see it being him.

But about this old dude... lol this guy is interesting. When he died.... my shady ass friend kinda 'broke' into his house and took a couple lock boxes and a chest, all of which were locked. It's not as shady as it sounds but I don't want to get into the details of all that. Point is, after breaking open the lock boxes we found a bunch of letters like he never sent written to someone. There was some notes but most interesting was there was all kinds of checks, never cashed written to him for Thousands of dollars. In the chest there was a couple furs, a knife with a lot of detail carved in the wood handle and a bunch of weird OLD tin winde up toys. They were kind of neat and all looked pretty old. Also in the chest was more checks and a few bank statements from a bank in Alaska, one of which was showing over $300k+ in it. When the people who he gave his property to in his will were cleaning out his house, they found 2 Full Gold Bars in a safe under his bed- in the wall. He didn't have a car either... man.. I dont know how long this post is.. but its getting late.. I need to goto bed..


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## ace1059 (Mar 12, 2008)

ok so i have another story that is cRAAzzys 

so im crashin at my friends house for a couple of days, so he said to me that they are renting the house from someone and the person that lived there murered someone in the house, so my friends mom said that there was bad spirits in the house, My friends family alawase had problems, like in the middle of the night i could hear them screaming or arguing and my friend saying hes gonna shoot someone or hurtem...you know he gets all fired up sometimes. 

so im there at night and were smokin sum black&milds outside, i remember before we left we turned of the t.v. and the gamecube.
so were out on the pourch jus chillin and candy (there dog) starts barkin and runnnin around in the house, we go in there and the dog appears to be chasing the air because hes runnin around in circles ( not little circles but around the whole house) so wer like the dogs on crak lol then we go to the room and the tv is one and the gamecube is tured on, the game is fukin paused!

i dont know what iit was ..im thinkin demons...my friend also told me sometimes he hears footsteps goin down there stairs...so i dont know what the fuk is wrong with his house lol


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## Erniedytn (Mar 13, 2008)

email468 said:


> Since you asked - you can't rule out a bear and leave bigfoot in there as a possibility. I mean, we know bears exist and can walk on two legs. Excellent job on including the hoax possibility. If I were grading, I would count your number 2 and number 3 as the same thing.


I ruled out the bear because apparently it walked a good distance on 2 legs. How far can a bear walk on 2 legs? (Google time!) Also, are bears native to Illinois? There are black bears in the Appalachian mountains, but they don't get THAT big. 

How can I count a hoaxster and Bigfoot as the same thing? There is a possibility that Bigfoot exists.


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## Erniedytn (Mar 13, 2008)

oscarmiya said:


> Well...
> There was one old dude. He was real old. He didn't exactly LIVE in the woods but he spent most all of his time there. He had a house about a mile and half from where I was at the time. This guy was probably about 65 years old. I want to rule his ass out as playing a prank like that because I couldn't Imagen that man walking like what I saw and doing something like that BUT then again this mother fucker all he did when he was chop wood. He had no electric in his house and he spent about 90% of his time in the woods, gathering wood. I am pretty sure he is the one who built the 4x4 shacks out there too. Some of them had shit in them.. like old magazines and some old radio phonograph things.. all beat up and shit... real weird shit.. this guy freaked ALL of my friends out, including me on more than one occasion. For example.. This dude had beaten down wheel barrel tracks going all over through out the woods where he gathered wood and was bringing it to where ever the hell he brought it. If he was out in the woods, he HAD a wheel barrel with him that he was pushing. So I was out Hunting, Deer Hunting and I was walking out to my stand. My brother was with me... Walking along and the next thing I hear was some grunt mumble sound come from behind me. I stopped and turned around with my gun raising to my shoulder not knowing what the fuck was behind me and what do I see.. this old mother fucker WITH his wheel barrel about 10 feet behind me. I dont know how the hell he got that close behind us while we were walking, TRYING to not scare any deer. He started trying to talk to me and my brother but he could barely talk... or I could barely understand him. Almost like he didn't know english but could some what mumble shit out here and there. Dude looks like he was about 90 but he was my friends neighbor and my friends Mom has known him for a while and said he was in his 60's. Also.. this dude NEVER wore shoes... When he was out in the woods.. he was barefoot the ENTIRE time..
> 
> I am getting side tracked in my little adventures but all and all I don't think it was that guy. He was only about 5 ft tall, maybe a hair taller and Died about a year later from natural causes _(pretty sure he had a stroke)_. I wouldn't put anything paste that creepy old bastard but again, I just couldn't see it being him.
> ...


 
Man.....you got some good stories dude. That is really interesting, especially that last paragraph. If I could rep you again I would.

So the place where you seen the "Yeti", was this any part of his stomping grounds? What time of year was it...winter, summer, spring or fall? Could this old dude have made some sort of getup out of old animals and shit; like _Buffalo Bill_ from _The Silence of the Lambs_? 

This just keeps getting better!


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## Erniedytn (Mar 13, 2008)

I just realized that I have hijacked this thread with my own agenda, so I'll participate as well.

Even though I absolutely love stuff like this, I have never seen ANYTHING out of the ordinary in my entire life. I have however, had a strange experience. My dad was diagnosed with cancer in 2003, and passed away in August 2004. There at the end he was in and out of the hospital alot. I'm not going to get into the details, but basically the night before he passed, he was once again admitted to the ICU in the local hospital. I had elected to stay home because they would only allow one person in the ER as well as ICU, so I figured I would just go up there when he was checked into a regular room as I always had, and let my mom be by his side until then. Later that night the hospital litteraly kicked my mom out of the ICU at 11:00 PM sharp when visiting hours were over. She came home, filled me in on his status, and we went to bed. The next morning I awoke at 6:18 AM to someone pushing on my shoulder, as if they were gently nudging me to wake me up. I rolled over and seen no one, I then looked at the clock to see what time it was, and promptly rolled over to go back to sleep. About 20 minutes later my mom woke me up, and with tears in her eyes she told me that my dad had passed, the hospital had just called and informed her. Of course we cried and consoled each other, and after I could muster up the nerve to speak, I asked when it happened. Wiping the tears away from her eyes, and taking everything she had to say the words, she looked at me and said "About 20 minutes ago, at 6:18."

To this day I truly believe that was my dad's way of telling me goodbye.


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## oscarmiya (Mar 13, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> Man.....you got some good stories dude. That is really interesting, especially that last paragraph. If I could rep you again I would.
> 
> So the place where you seen the "Yeti", was this any part of his stomping grounds? What time of year was it...winter, summer, spring or fall? Could this old dude have made some sort of getup out of old animals and shit; like _Buffalo Bill_ from _The Silence of the Lambs_?
> 
> This just keeps getting better!


I have never seen the old dude in the field.. but his stomping ground was in the woods were the 'thing' went. I really want to say its not him but again I have no proof so to answer that question, it could have been him... it could have been anyone\anything but there has to be a logical answer... however considering the circumstances of this sight... there is no evidence to prove otherwise. 

Heh, I found that guy interesting/freaky also, which is why I shared that story about him. We refered to him as 'The Hermit', as he never really left his home/woods.


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## oscarmiya (Mar 13, 2008)

Erniedytn said:


> I just realized that I have hijacked this thread with my own agenda, so I'll participate as well.
> 
> Even though I absolutely love stuff like this, I have never seen ANYTHING out of the ordinary in my entire life. I have however, had a strange experience. My dad was diagnosed with cancer in 2003, and passed away in August 2004. There at the end he was in and out of the hospital alot. I'm not going to get into the details, but basically the night before he passed, he was once again admitted to the ICU in the local hospital. I had elected to stay home because they would only allow one person in the ER as well as ICU, so I figured I would just go up there when he was checked into a regular room as I always had, and let my mom be by his side until then. Later that night the hospital litteraly kicked my mom out of the ICU at 11:00 PM sharp when visiting hours were over. She came home, filled me in on his status, and we went to bed. The next morning I awoke at 6:18 AM to someone pushing on my shoulder, as if they were gently nudging me to wake me up. I rolled over and seen no one, I then looked at the clock to see what time it was, and promptly rolled over to go back to sleep. About 20 minutes later my mom woke me up, and with tears in her eyes she told me that my dad had passed, the hospital had just called and informed her. Of course we cried and consoled each other, and after I could muster up the nerve to speak, I asked when it happened. Wiping the tears away from her eyes, and taking everything she had to say the words, she looked at me and said "About 20 minutes ago, at 6:18."
> 
> To this day I truly believe that was my dad's way of telling me goodbye.


Sorry to hear that shit man. This kind of stuff right here is what really gets interesting to me and I'm glad you shared that story. Very weird but very interesting. I have heard other similar stories... one of which I will share below.

I absolutely do not believe in the Bible. I am not religious by any means and will argue EVERY point you try and make about the book, however something similar happened to me with my Grandma who was very close. It went down like this....

My brother was looking for a vehicle to buy. My dad, mom, brother and grandma went out to take a look at this white jacked up truck my brother was eying. While my bro and rents were checking it out, grandma and myself were in the car horsing around, lightly hitting each other, as we normally did... we were pretty close. The very next day I came home from school, I noticed my Pop's was home which was unusual. I walked in the house and Dad told me he found grandma on the floor by their bed. She had a pretty bad stroke and was at the hospital. We got in the car and headed over there. My close family was all there and my grandma was pretty much barely hanging on. She had enough energy to squeeze my hand but her eyes never twitched or her head never turned. The next day she got worse and I was told the truth that she may not make it through the week. There were 5 people allowed to stay in the room with her over night. Both of my older brothers, my dad and my dads 2 sister stayed over night. The next day I got called down to the office and as I gained site of the office, I seen my mom standing there with puffy eyes. I instantly started to tear up because I knew what happened. I understand old age and natural death is inevitable but what really seemed to make me uneasy was the fact I never got to say Goodbye. I kicked and scream when I was told I couldn't stay with her the last night she was alive and then to have her pass that night was crushing. To get the similarity between the stories....
The same night she passed, I was sleeping in bed and had a crazy dream. I had a dream I was in the school library and out from a hallway came walking my Grandma. In my dream I freaked out because I subconsciously knew she passed that morning. I remember waking up and my heart racing with this crazy picture of my grandma, still alive, at my school walking towards me. The Very next night I had another dream. This time my Grandma was in a VERY large prairie looking field. Tall grass, blowing in the wind like a wave sweeping across the ocean. There 3 or 4 big stone pillars... kind of like the big stones at Stone Hedge. They were not in a row, or circle but what looked to be randomly placed, some what close to each other in this endless field. Leading to the Largest pillar, also the furthest away from my perspective, was stairs. Up top of the pillar was what looked like a door frame with the door opened- inwards. My grandma was standing on top of the pillar, in front of the door. Beyond the door was nothing but a completely blinding white light. I could see absolutely nothing past the door frame. My grandma looked at me, did not say a word, waved her hand to me, smiled and walked through the door. I remember watching her disappear beyond the frame into the light. I woke up, what I thought was right after she disappeared and felt a LOT better about not getting a chance to say goodbye. I have NEVER had one single dream about my Grandma again. I know its JUST a dream. A thought in my subconscious mind. To me though it meant the world. I felt since I never got a chance to say goodbye, she tried to show up in my dreams to say goodbye. The first time I freaked out so she gave me one last chance before she left for good. Scientifically, I kind of think it was my mind making up for the emotions and regret I felt at the time. Deep down though I really have to believe my Grandma cared to much to just leave me go like that. Some kind of connection. I needed some kind of closure and oddly enough, my subconscious mind gave me just that. Or is there really a connection with the recently deceased, you know? Before they are gone for good their 'spirit' or whatever stays for a few.... Thats a whole other can of worms that I don't think fits this thread but it is something to kind of think about... Another unknown that will never be answered. 

I have too many damn stories- peace man


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## Erniedytn (Mar 13, 2008)

That was awesome dude...very similar indeed. Right after my dad passed I had dreams about him nightly as well, but it was only for like the first week. He would just sit there, never saying a word. I would ask him things like "How is this possible?", and "How are you still here, I watched them push you into the creamatorium!"(sp?) But he never said a word; he would just sit there smiling. But yeah, that's a whole new thread in itself.

Now, if we can just figure out what the hell you saw! I know it's highly unlikely that you will ever know for sure, but it's still fun to investigate.


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## flowergurl (Mar 13, 2008)

What a beautiful story...still wiping the tears out of my eyes. How much more at peace you must feel with some closure. Whether it was your subconsicous, a spirit, energy...whatever, wherever it came from was
exactly what you needed at the time. 




oscarmiya said:


> Sorry to hear that shit man. This kind of stuff right here is what really gets interesting to me and I'm glad you shared that story. Very weird but very interesting. I have heard other similar stories... one of which I will share below.
> 
> I absolutely do not believe in the Bible. I am not religious by any means and will argue EVERY point you try and make about the book, however something similar happened to me with my Grandma who was very close. It went down like this....
> 
> ...


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## valuablevariable (May 27, 2008)

Lets get this going again. 
My take on seeing shit when in your bed is that your still half sleeping or have a fever. I have two experiences with seeing shit in my bed. The first was when i was maybe like 10, i woke up in the night and saw fucking spiders everywhere on the bed, like big tarantulas. I didnt totally freak out and run away but i was hiding under my blanket. It was very real sort of like in fear and loathing in las vegas. You see this shit around you and your like whats going on.
The second time i woke up and saw people in my room. This time i was probably a little younger and it was like i had woken up but my dream now continued while i was awake. My mom came in the room and i still didnt quite snaped out of it. I remember her asking me if i had taken drugs. Turns out i had a fever and was hallucinating.

My real questionable experience was when i was building something late night in my parents garage. I was fully awake and sober at the time, maybe 18 years old, and i looked over at the door that enters into the garage and saw a small black thing sort of run through that door into the garage and right into another door about 6 feet away that lead to a little sectioned off room where all the tools etc are. Now i have a little black dog but this thing was a little smaller and rounder. I just froze and didnt move for like a minute. Then i took a shovel that was next to me and slowly headed to where that thing ran into. Nothing, no dog, no creature. 
That was the only time i saw something and couldnt explain what it was.
However i think its at least as likely that my mind made up this black thing as it is likely that it was some kind of ghost or whatnot. I never thought it had to be something supernatural but it was fun having seen something strange.
Even scarier was when later the shovel fell over behind me (just hadnt placed it well against wall), THAT scared the shit out of me.


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## purplehaze2 (May 27, 2008)

me my brother and my mom were hanging out in our rooms I think she was reading a story to us we were 14 and 16 well I look up in my room and I saw an eyeball starring at us threw the window .I blinked and the eye ball was still there,well I freaked out and grabbed my 22 long rifle.when I got to the back yard 2 guys were heading to the bushes on the backside of my yard. well I was freaked out so I shot at them like 10 shots I blew out the niebors car window across the street and popped one guy in the leg.well my dad was in the airforce at the time so he got court marshaled down a rank .of course it was his bosses window i shot out. and my dad wasnt to pissed because he said I was protecting the family.the bullet went into the guys leg and out and into his ankle.My dad had to pay for his surgery . so from this day on say hello to my little fried.heehheh


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 27, 2008)

That famous Bigfoot movie footage from the 60's has been digitally analyzed and has been proven to not have been a hoax. with the enhancement you can actually watch the muscles on the face move as the creature turns to face the camera. and the fact that they used 8mm grainy film and could have no way (40 years ago) to have foreseen the possibility of digital enhancement tools also lends major credence to the fact it wasn't hoaxed. they have also done computer generated models and have proven that the gate and walking characteristics are well outside the range of humans so it isn't possible that it was a man in a suit. not to mention if you look close the bigfoot has huge titties who would think of that


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## email468 (May 27, 2008)

FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> That famous Bigfoot movie footage from the 60's has been digitally analyzed and has been proven to not have been a hoax. with the enhancement you can actually watch the muscles on the face move as the creature turns to face the camera. and the fact that they used 8mm grainy film and could have no way (40 years ago) to have foreseen the possibility of digital enhancement tools also lends major credence to the fact it wasn't hoaxed. they have also done computer generated models and have proven that the gate and walking characteristics are well outside the range of humans so it isn't possible that it was a man in a suit. not to mention if you look close the bigfoot has huge titties who would think of that


this is not true. There is plenty of evidence (and common sense) that tells us this is just another - in a long list - of bigfoot hoaxes ... just a few items as food for thought...

1) Bob Hieronimus, a close associate of Patterson and Gimlin, claimed to be the guy in the suit. Multiple friends and relatives not only back up his story, and claim they were aware of it in 1967, but also claim to have seen the suit in his trunk before Patterson and Gimlin reclaimed it. Add to this a confession by a known maker of gorilla suits that claimed to have sold Patterson a suit, which he was fully capable of modifying. I mean, what are the odds that the best footage we have to date was shot by a guy who was purposefully out to film Bigfoot, with a rented camera, at a time when having and renting cameras was not commonplace. Smells fishy to me.

2) Despite the claims, many independent experts have stated that the footage seems to depict a person of human height and girth, with a human center of balance, walking with a gait (albeit forced) within human means.

3) The breasts (glad you mentioned them) probably molded on so as to explain why this Bigfoot wasn't 8 feet tall (being a smaller female), were covered with fur - an anomaly in the primate world. The fur also seems to be of uniform length all over the creature, further indication of a costume. Add to that the immobile fur diaper, and you got...monkey suit!

4) Failure of Patterson and crew to pursue the creature after the 60 seconds of footage, even when the creature was not moving very fast. Footage is jerky and amateurish, even to a ridiculous degree. No attempt to manually zoom into subject and the film is full wide the whole time.

5) Failure of anyone, anywhere to get better footage than this in almost 40 years despite advanced equipment like trip cameras and the almost universal presence of hand held cameras tells me the creature does not exist.

6) Patterson and crew where on horseback clomping through the woods and snuck up on one of the most elusive creatures?!?

7) The footprints taken from the scene don't have any toes!

8 )Patterson and company agreed beforehand not to shoot the bigfoot (a very good idea if your buddy is wearing the costume).

9) Patterson only had 2 minutes of film left? Why -- how many other bigfoots was he filming?

10 ) let's go back to the rented camera - this guy has to be the luckiest in the world - as he rented a film camera (very expensive and unusual 40 years ago) and was fortunate enough to see and film a bigfoot the very first time out!!! Coincidence, luck, or bullshit? you decide.

That's just a few - I'm sure you can come up with more reasons the footage... and bigfoot is baloney.


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## 40acres (May 27, 2008)

When i saw tree climbing mutants when i was at home, I just assumed that one of my family members was drunk.


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## kronicsmurf (May 27, 2008)

I've seen and heard a lot of weird shit but i'd be afraid of being labeled crazy or kooky i'm 46 and some of the things i've experienced i don't even want to believe


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## email468 (May 27, 2008)

kronicsmurf said:


> I've seen and heard a lot of weird shit but i'd be afraid of being labeled crazy or kooky i'm 46 and some of the things i've experienced i don't even want to believe


I am around that age and have also seen some pretty inexplicable things. But when i took the time to investigate my own and others weird phenomena - i've always found a natural explanation - or at least a possible natural explanation.

and when i looked closer at other folks odd occurrences, it was far easier to look past my own bias and see natural explanations.


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## purplehaze2 (May 27, 2008)

well at least someones older than me .


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## email468 (May 27, 2008)

purplehaze2 said:


> well at least someones older than me .


there are quite a few of us oldsters around! welcome!


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 27, 2008)

email468 said:


> this is not true. There is plenty of evidence (and common sense) that tells us this is just another - in a long list - of bigfoot hoaxes ... just a few items as food for thought...
> 
> 1) Bob Hieronimus, a close associate of Patterson and Gimlin, claimed to be the guy in the suit. Multiple friends and relatives not only back up his story, and claim they were aware of it in 1967, but also claim to have seen the suit in his trunk before Patterson and Gimlin reclaimed it. Add to this a confession by a known maker of gorilla suits that claimed to have sold Patterson a suit, which he was fully capable of modifying. I mean, what are the odds that the best footage we have to date was shot by a guy who was purposefully out to film Bigfoot, with a rented camera, at a time when having and renting cameras was not commonplace. Smells fishy to me.
> 
> ...


 you may want to look into this again and update your info im going to argue with you


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## email468 (May 27, 2008)

FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> you may want to look into this again and update your info im going to argue with you



Don't bother - i give up .. bigfoot is real just very, very sneaky. OK?


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 27, 2008)

email468 said:


> Don't bother - i give up .. bigfoot is real just very, very sneaky. OK?


Everything in your post is speculation and supposition. What i was talking about is hard scientific fact. under microscopic digital scrutiny of the original 8mm film the movement of the facial muscles can be clearly seen. The animatronics needed to do that, or even come close, wasn't around until the mid 80's. The computer generated models in which hundreds of peoples walks, strides, gates etc. were analyzed with the footage proves that the movement exhibited in the footage is well outside the scope of human range (thats not debatable) nor is the fact that several private firms and a few major television studios with almost unlimited budgets have tried time and again to recreate the footage unsuccessfully, even with todays technology. see that? thats how its done, no speculation no supposition no page and a half bullet point presentation of declarative statements to perpetuate the omnipresent forum One-ups-manship. Just cold hard scientific fact.


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## fdd2blk (May 27, 2008)

i saw something weird. it was just after 9/11. all airspace over the US was closed. 0 flights allowed. i went out in my backyard and was having a smoke. i heard a noise. wait a minute ....... that's a plane. big huge white jet. long body and wings. way up high. flew right over my house. in california.


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## hom36rown (May 28, 2008)

Mustve been some important people on it... how long after airspace was closed did it happen?...it took a while to ground over 6000 planes


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## jaiddragon (May 28, 2008)

we lived in a house with a roomate...me and rm were out in the garage for a while unpacking when the fiance comes out and asks who was just inside, neither of us had been inside for about an hour but he swore up and down some one had just walked out the garage door right past him....

same house, i always felt watched, when i was watching tv i felt like some one was behind me staring at me, would always spin around and try to see but nothing was ever there, found out later from the caretaker that the old lady that lived there before died there...

had another roomate, older man, has congestive heart failure and diabetes, every time his health would start to fail, the house would seem to be filled with spirits, you could just feel it in the air, and see cloudy shapes sometimes, the lights would turn on and off and i mean just one lamp in the living room not a whole house inturruption....

fuck im freaked out just writing about it...


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## Lacy (May 28, 2008)

*Oh email. You are so wise and funny. *


email468 said:


> Don't bother - i give up .. bigfoot is real just very, very sneaky. OK?


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## Ethnobotanist (May 28, 2008)

email468 said:


> Don't bother - i give up .. bigfoot is real just very, very sneaky. OK?


He actually lives in the Super 8 by the highway near where the footage was taken. And in actuality, he is a guy named Bob with unusually disproportionate limbs and a bad case of hypertrichosis. Goes barefoot usually, as he finds it difficult to find shoes that fit. 

And yes, he's very sneaky. A recluse, even. He was tormented in Junior High for having to shave nine times a day just to keep a reasonable stubble. Sort of traumatized him. 

But man, does he grow the best weed ever.

~Ethno


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## Ethnobotanist (May 28, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i saw something weird. it was just after 9/11. all airspace over the US was closed. 0 flights allowed. i went out in my backyard and was having a smoke. i heard a noise. wait a minute ....... that's a plane. big huge white jet. long body and wings. way up high. flew right over my house. in california.


Craziness. Seriously.


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## Lacy (May 28, 2008)

*I have seen the weirdest shit happen but if I told you all you wouldn't believe me. Soooooo....I'm gonna pass on this one. *


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## GuNjAhLoRd (May 28, 2008)

shrooms make you see all sorts of buzzy shit


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## GuNjAhLoRd (May 28, 2008)

i seen a ghost which told me to stop tripping out so hard havnt taken them since but not saying ever again i just looooooovvvvveeeee the shrooms


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## email468 (May 28, 2008)

FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> Everything in your post is speculation and supposition. What i was talking about is hard scientific fact. under microscopic digital scrutiny of the original 8mm film the movement of the facial muscles can be clearly seen. The animatronics needed to do that, or even come close, wasn't around until the mid 80's. The computer generated models in which hundreds of peoples walks, strides, gates etc. were analyzed with the footage proves that the movement exhibited in the footage is well outside the scope of human range (thats not debatable) nor is the fact that several private firms and a few major television studios with almost unlimited budgets have tried time and again to recreate the footage unsuccessfully, even with todays technology. see that? thats how its done, no speculation no supposition no page and a half bullet point presentation of declarative statements to perpetuate the omnipresent forum One-ups-manship. Just cold hard scientific fact.


Cold hard scientific fact huh? OK what peer-reviewed scientific journal would I have to read to see this evidence?


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## email468 (May 28, 2008)

To understand how easily we can be fooled, i'll repeat a post here... this is regarding UFOs but insert any supernatural phenomena...

Phil Plait is a professional astronomer working for NASA and runs the badastronomy.com website. This is an excerpt from his book: Bad Astronomy used here without permission:


> On February 11, 1997, at approximately 3:00 A.M. local time, I had a close encounter with a UFO. Actually, multiple UFOs.
> 
> I was in Florida with my family to attend a Space Shuttle launch. I had been working at Goddard Space Flight Center in Maryland for nearly two years, helping to calibrate a new camera that was to be placed on board the Hubble Space Telescope. All of us who had worked on the camera got passes to see the Shuttle launch in Florida, and we were all excited about seeing our camera lofted into space.
> 
> ...


There are two lessons here. First, there is a very great need for humans to believe in extraordinary things. Even levelheaded scientists can briefly contemplate a UFO invasion. Second, everyday objects in unordinary circumstances easily fool us.

These two things sum up UFO (and other seemingly paranormal phenomena) stories. Yes, every one of them.


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 28, 2008)

email468 said:


> To understand how easily we can be fooled, i'll repeat a post here... this is regarding UFOs but insert any supernatural phenomena...
> 
> Phil Plait is a professional astronomer working for NASA and runs the badastronomy.com website. This is an excerpt from his book: Bad Astronomy used here without permission:
> There are two lessons here. First, there is a very great need for humans to believe in extraordinary things. Even levelheaded scientists can briefly contemplate a UFO invasion. Second, everyday objects in unordinary circumstances easily fool us.
> ...


 there you go with your declarative statements again. you are obviously the type of person that wants to pretend they are more rational and intelligent then everyone else. heres a little hint if you want people to think YOU actually know what you're talking about try posting something original and quit the google search cut and paste attempt at debating, because you're not fooling anyone.


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## email468 (May 28, 2008)

FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> there you go with your declarative statements again. you are obviously the type of person that wants to pretend they are more rational and intelligent then everyone else. heres a little hint if you want people to think YOU actually know what you're talking about try posting something original and quit the google search cut and paste attempt at debating, because you're not fooling anyone.


How fucking dare you?!?! You talk about all the evidence and when someone says show me you start with the ad hominem. 

I had to type that out by hand and i put it in quotes! The thoughts outside the quotes are my own opinions. I do not claim to be more rational and intelligent than anyone else - though I am inclined to think i am more rational than you. Besides, I'm not putting on a fucking show for you or anyone else. 

And sorry - i didn't realize you, or those who agree with you, are the only ones who are permitted to use declarative statements. I'll be sure to use more qualifiers next time. yeah right.

are you - a person who believes in the likelihood of an 8 foot monster roaming the countryside - questioning my integrity? why make this personal? why not just present your scientifically acceptable evidence and prove me wrong? oh that's right- you ain't got none.

You'll debate me all day about little snippets of statements here and there but ultimately you can produce no blood, hair, bones, shit, any scientifically acceptable evidence.

Believe whatever you want - but don't tell me there is scientific evidence for bigfoot accepted by the scientific community... at least without proof. A link to peer-reviewed journal would do the trick.


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## fdd2blk (May 28, 2008)

hom36rown said:


> Mustve been some important people on it... how long after airspace was closed did it happen?...it took a while to ground over 6000 planes


it was the next day at least. i don't remember how long it was all closed but it was during the middle part. well after the sky was clear.


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 28, 2008)

email468 said:


> How fucking dare you?!?! You talk about all the evidence and when someone says show me you start with the ad hominem.
> 
> I had to type that out by hand and i put it in quotes! The thoughts outside the quotes are my own opinions. I do not claim to be more rational and intelligent than anyone else - though I am inclined to think i am more rational than you. Besides, I'm not putting on a fucking show for you or anyone else.
> 
> ...


geniuses like you didn't "believe" in giant gorillas in the Congo (though they had been being reported by the natives for thousands of years) until they were discovered in the fifties. This creature HAS existed in the past(gigantopithacus), And most scientist agree that it is possible they still do.This creature has been reported around the globe for thousands of years from almost every culture and land. So no, your flying duck theory doesn't hold water (nor is it relevant to the topic imo). And listen my friend you need to dance with the girl you came with. Where is YOUR proof OR YOUR peered reviewed evidence to the contrary. Talk out of your ass all you want guy, I couldn't care less what YOU "believe", I'M only interested in facts. I live in upstate New York and i'm in the woods all the time and i have never seen a bear or a bobcat nor any evidence of them. Bears are huge and they are all over the place up here but i've never seen one so using your logic Id have to conclude they don't exist.


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## email468 (May 28, 2008)

FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> geniuses like you didn't "believe" in giant gorillas in the Congo (though they had been being reported by the natives for thousands of years) until they were discovered in the fifties. This creature HAS existed in the past(gigantopithacus), And most scientist agree that it is possible they still do.This creature has been reported around the globe for thousands of years from almost every culture and land. So no, your flying duck theory doesn't hold water (nor is it relevant to the topic imo). And listen my friend you need to dance with the girl you came with. Where is YOUR proof OR YOUR peered reviewed evidence to the contrary. Talk out of your ass all you want guy, I couldn't care less what YOU "believe", I'M only interested in facts. I live in upstate New York and i'm in the woods all the time and i have never seen a bear or a bobcat nor any evidence of them. Bears are huge and they are all over the place up here but i've never seen one so using your logic Id have to conclude they don't exist.


Your asking me to "prove" a negative i.e. bigfoot doesn't exist, reveals a deeply flawed understanding regarding how science works. It is akin to asking to prove faeries, unicorns and elves don't exist. Do you think they exist? there have been numerous sightings and many folk stories concerning the wee folk. Dragons have also been reported around the world from nearly every culture and land. They also do not exist.

You are the one making the claim. it is up to you to provide proof. Dinosaurs used to exist too - I don't see any of them running around.

And besides, I never said bigfoot absolutely, positively doesn't exist - i've always said it is unlikely - not impossible. What I am saying is there is no scientifically accepted evidence that bigfoot exists. Can you track down scientists (hell you could probably find quite a few) willing to go on camera and discuss the evidence like it exists? Sure - you can also find scientists that are willing to discuss the possibility of the moon being made of cheese too. That doesn't make it so. 

Here is the important thing and what i am arguing for: *No respectable scientific journal has published irrefutable evidence of bigfoots existence. *

I'm not saying there will never be evidence though I don't think there ever will be. but what I think (or what you think) does not matter when it comes to what really does or does not exist.

my experience spending time in the northeast woods differs greatly from yours. I have seen many black bears and it is trivial to find their spoor and scat.

Keeping an open mind is a great quality and if evidence is presented that qualifies as scientific, I will certainly have a look. And if/when a bigfoot is proven then I'll happily concede and be properly amazed and awed by what would be a most interesting creature. You choose to believe, with flimsy evidence, that it exists which is your prerogative. I, however, will remain skeptical.


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 28, 2008)

email468 said:


> this is not true. There is plenty of evidence (and common sense) that tells us this is just another - in a long list - of bigfoot hoaxes ... just a few items as food for thought...


 This statement right here is where you went wrong because everything i said is 100% fact. In contrast everything you wrote is 100% speculation or as it's more commonly termed flat out bullshit. Im a skeptic you are a debunker. I never said Bigfoot exist. What I know DOESN'T exist is the possibility that the ones who made this particular footage, in the 60's, had the foresight and technical knowledge to predict the type of futuristic scrutiny this grainy footage would be put through. then took steps to make finite details not visible in the original footage to be discovered at a later date. the digital enhancements when compared to known primates are almost identical in both facial feature proportions and muscular movements. If you want to believe some hillbilly and his friend could pull that off (which probably would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars) then you may want to reavaluate your level of rationality.


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## email468 (May 28, 2008)

FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> This statement right here is where you went wrong because everything i said is 100% fact. In contrast everything you wrote is 100% speculation or as it's more commonly termed flat out bullshit. Im a skeptic you are a debunker. I never said Bigfoot exist. What I know DOESN'T exist is the possibility that the ones who made this particular footage, in the 60's, had the foresight and technical knowledge to predict the type of futuristic scrutiny this grainy footage would be put through. then took steps to make finite details not visible in the original footage to be discovered at a later date. the digital enhancements when compared to known primates are almost identical in both facial feature proportions and muscular movements. If you want to believe some hillbilly and his friend could pull that off (which probably would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars) then you may want to reavaluate your level of rationality.


Great! And in what scientific journal can i read about it?


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 28, 2008)

email468 said:


> Great! And in what scientific journal can i read about it?


 Typical "I have no debate left" quote. Research it yourself your the one who started pontificating to me, Then when I crush every debate you try to bring to the table you throw out the scientific journal again which when discussing ANYTHING paranormal IS NOT relevant. Go do some research come to some actual conclusions of your own and stop parroting websites that you think make you sound knowledgeable about these things. Then we can continue this discussion, until then that's check and mate.


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 28, 2008)

YouTube - MonsterQuest | Bigfoot [PART 1 OF 5] this episode of monsterquest discusses some of the things I was talking about about the footage enhancement its not a scientific journal but it will save me time from collecting all the data and compiling here


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## email468 (May 28, 2008)

FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> Typical "I have no debate left" quote. Research it yourself your the one who started pontificating to me, Then when I crush every debate you try to bring to the table you throw out the scientific journal again which when discussing ANYTHING paranormal IS NOT relevant. Go do some research come to some actual conclusions of your own and stop parroting websites that you think make you sound knowledgeable about these things. Then we can continue this discussion, until then that's check and mate.





YOU are making the claim that there is scientific evidence. When i ask for proof you then announce you have "crushed me" in the debate because i asked for proof.. huh? that makes no sense at all. Explain how my asking for proof of your evidence is my "having no debate left". Wouldn't i have to examine the evidence in order to debate it? oh yeah - that's right... you STILL don't have any evidence but i'm the one who is crushed.... OK.

So science is not relevant when discussing the paranormal. Fine. Then stop saying there is scientific evidence and you won't hear from me. Otherwise, and once again, show me the scientific evidence which is found in peer reviewed journals and papers.

And here we go with insults again....where would your bigfoot "theories" and "evidence" be without internet based bigfoot sites? You don't have to answer -- it is a rhetorical question. Yet you have the gall to accuse me of what you are doing yourself. screw you pal - i'm sick of your insinuations and insults. Put up or shut up. I don't need an any websites to debate your baloney.

For what it is worth, I have reviewed the digitally enhanced footage and i still see a guy in a monkey suit. Oh boy - does this mean i crushed you in debate since i also do not offer any proof of why i think that?


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## email468 (May 28, 2008)

FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> YouTube - MonsterQuest | Bigfoot [PART 1 OF 5] this episode of monsterquest discusses some of the things I was talking about about the footage enhancement its not a scientific journal but it will save me time from collecting all the data and compiling here


i'll translate. I was talking out of my ass when i said there was scientific proof so i'll instead pretend i could provide proof but don't have the time. Yet i do have the time to find youtube videos of a TV show called MonsterQuest as proof.


Oh yes - youtube and monsterquest .... how could i doubt you?


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 28, 2008)

No actually you didn't ask for proof ,you said was what i said was wrong, when you can watch that piece and lo and behold what I said was 100% accurate. we never debated the existence of bigfoot we debated the possibility that this particular footage was hoaxed and you offered no evidence whatsoever scientific or otherwise to back up your claim so yes I crushed you. Not only that I actually stayed on topic I didn't offer up a bunch of ambiguous unrelated "Theories" just for the sake of having something else to say. where is your fucking peer reviewed PROOF it was a hoax ? if you dont have it shut the fuck up and consider yourself crushed!


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## Lacy (May 28, 2008)

*You guys still at it? *


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## email468 (May 28, 2008)

FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> No actually you didn't ask for proof ,you said was what i said was wrong, when you can watch that piece and lo and behold what I said was 100% accurate. we never debated the existence of bigfoot we debated the possibility that this particular footage was hoaxed and you offered no evidence whatsoever scientific or otherwise to back up your claim so yes I crushed you. Not only that I actually stayed on topic I didn't offer up a bunch of ambiguous unrelated "Theories" just for the sake of having something else to say. where is your fucking peer reviewed PROOF it was a hoax ? if you dont have it shut the fuck up and consider yourself crushed!


I didn't ask for proof? how many times do i have to ask before it registers with you? are you even reading my posts? I mentioned the UFO story to illustrate how easy our minds can be fooled by ordinary events. But you are claiming that was a red herring? Do you not see how that would apply to this conversation?

And you say we never debated the existence of bigfoot? What, exactly, are we debating then? The legitimacy of the Patterson film? And what do we gain by proving or disproving the film? Evidence of bigfoot, right? so we are indeed debating the existence of bigfoot.

I admit that with scientific evidence, I'd have no problem believing in a bigfoot. Would you be willing to concede that while there may be evidence in the future, there is currently no accepted scientific evidence for the existence of bigfoot?

Having said all that - even if bigfoot were captured tomorrow - that would still not "prove" the legitimacy of the Patterson film. Do you understand?


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## email468 (May 28, 2008)

Lacy said:


> *You guys still at it? *


unfortunately. i am just about finished. I am now attempting to determine if i am debating with someone reasonable or someone determined to "win" at all costs.


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 28, 2008)

So now an attempt to project your own inferiority on me, and every time I prove my point you change the subject or go in a different direction. I think you haven't been reading MY posts. In real life when you're talking to people they don't have the luxury of scrolling back up to call you on your BS but in forums we do and every thing you posted has been riddled with bs and i have poked holes in all your, what ill loosely refer to as arguments. Ive stated several times that i never said Bigfoot undeniably exists and you know that, and yes all you have is red herrings and nothing more to add to this debate. which again was about the possibility of THIS footage being hoaxed. Like I said YOU HAVE TO DANCE WITH THE GIRL YOU CAME WITH! and you can't dance. You can sidestep my questions all you want, again you're not fooling anyone who wasted their time reading any of this. Its obvious your the one with the wounded ego who cant except that he piped up and got shot down at every angle. i'm over it bro, nice nugz btw


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## fdd2blk (May 28, 2008)

what about my airplane?????


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## email468 (May 28, 2008)

FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> So now an attempt to project your own inferiority on me, and every time I prove my point you change the subject or go in a different direction. I think you haven't been reading MY posts. In real life when you're talking to people they don't have the luxury of scrolling back up to call you on your BS but in forums we do and every thing you posted has been riddled with bs and i have poked holes in all your, what ill loosely refer to as arguments. Ive stated several times that i never said Bigfoot undeniably exists and you know that, and yes all you have is red herrings and nothing more to add to this debate. which again was about the possibility of THIS footage being hoaxed. Like I said YOU HAVE TO DANCE WITH THE GIRL YOU CAME WITH! and you can't dance. You can sidestep my questions all you want, again you're not fooling anyone who wasted their time reading any of this. Its obvious your the one with the wounded ego who cant except that he piped up and got shot down at every angle. i'm over it bro, nice nugz btw


OK, if you want to strictly debate the video, i'm game. 

Topic one: i say the video is a complete hoax because the original film was lost.
Topic two: there is nothing in the video that would rule out a man in a monkey suit.
Topic three: the film maker (Patterson) was a known con-man and thief. In fact, he stole the camera that the lost film was made with!

Three to start.


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## email468 (May 28, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> what about my airplane?????


are you asking me or anybody?
I am, of course, guessing but i would say you probably saw an airplane. One of the few that was permitted to take off.


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 28, 2008)

well according to your own statement earlier #3 the camera was rented (YOU SAID THAT) #1 The footage was not lost the original 8mm footage is what was analyzed most recently #2 i've already covered over and over why the footage DOES NOT show a man in a monkey suit. AND THAT IS ALL I'M CLAIMING I NEVER SAID IT WAS "BIGFOOT" I just said it was not hoaxed. you are just making shit up now. like I said your kind of BS only works in real life (and not usually even then) people probably just wait till you walk away to laugh at you. you contradicted your own posts like 5 times. give up! you lost! you're wrong! game over! the end.


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## email468 (May 28, 2008)

FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> Everything in your post is speculation and supposition. What i was talking about is hard scientific fact.


Of course I am supposing and speculating as are you. But you use the phrase: scientific fact &#8211; every time you say that I am going to ask for citation to a peer-reviewed journal. Let&#8217;s at least agree we are both speculating. 



FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> under microscopic digital scrutiny of the original 8mm film the movement of the facial muscles can be clearly seen.


I&#8217;ve reviewed the film and noted nothing of the kind. Besides if it is a guy in an ape suit &#8211; would his face muscles stop working?


FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> The animatronics needed to do that, or even come close, wasn't around until the mid 80's.


False. Planet of the Apes was released the following year with far more convincing ape-like creatures. Hell the Murders in the Rue Morgue 1932 version is more convincing! The 1954 version blows the Patterson film away. I would add that Patterson, a con man, spent some time at the carnival so was no stranger to people in suits claiming to be freaks/ape-men and other creatures. There are also costume designers of note saying the suit could (not was) just could be faked.


FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> The computer generated models in which hundreds of peoples walks, strides, gates etc. were analyzed with the footage proves that the movement exhibited in the footage is well outside the scope of human range (thats not debatable)


EVERYTHING is debatable &#8211; nice try though. I saw what you are talking about and basing the analysis on some person walking on a treadmill vs. someone wearing an ape-suit and attempting to act like an ape is completely bogus. Go ahead and try it and film yourself. You&#8217;ll be surprised by how close you can match the gait in the patterson film.


FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> nor is the fact that several private firms and a few major television studios with almost unlimited budgets have tried time and again to recreate the footage unsuccessfully, even with todays technology.


Ah no. I know of one that tried &#8211; not many and that was the BBC and they made a very convincing Bigfoot to me. I would ask that you cite where many TV studios and other firms have tried and failed. I believe this is your strongest evidence that the film was not faked.


FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> see that? thats how its done, no speculation no supposition no page and a half bullet point presentation of declarative statements to perpetuate the omnipresent forum One-ups-manship. Just cold hard scientific fact.


More ad hominems leading up to a big steamy pile of bullshit. Scientific facts?!?! Once again &#8211; peer reviewed journal time &#8211; otherwise it is supposition and speculation &#8211; just like me.

Not sure if you noticed but if you break up your sentences - you make bullet points too which are declarative and at one point not even debatable... goodness!


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 28, 2008)

email468 said:


> Of course I am supposing and speculating as are you. But you use the phrase: scientific fact  every time you say that I am going to ask for citation to a peer-reviewed journal. Lets at least agree we are both speculating.
> 
> 
> Ive reviewed the film and noted nothing of the kind. Besides if it is a guy in an ape suit  would his face muscles stop working?
> ...


 you are no good at this debating thing again going way outside the scope of discussion to embellish loosely related topics that seem to make you right. You don't give up. again refer to my original post to see what we were actually discussing since you apparently have forgotten a few times now. There is much much less PROOF of what you claim then what I have stated in fact your only proof is some guy said he wore the monkey suit. again the difference between a skeptic and a debunker is a skeptic actually looks at all the evidence to make conclusions not just seeing the evidence that fits into his or her own paradigm. Unlike you ,I haven't made any false claims, you keep doing it, I keep calling you on it, and then you keep changing the subject. Typical of a bullshitter. Which IS what you are and nothing more so Im done now


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## email468 (May 28, 2008)

FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> you are no good at this debating thing again going way outside the scope of discussion to embellish loosely related topics that seem to make you right. You don't give up. again refer to my original post to see what we were actually discussing since you apparently have forgotten a few times now. There is much much less PROOF of what you claim then what I have stated in fact your only proof is some guy said he wore the monkey suit. again the difference between a skeptic and a debunker is a skeptic actually looks at all the evidence to make conclusions not just seeing the evidence that fits into his or her own paradigm. Unlike you ,I haven't made any false claims, you keep doing it, I keep calling you on it, and then you keep changing the subject. Typical of a bullshitter. Which IS what you are and nothing more so Im done now


So even point by point refutation doesn't pass muster with you? I know of no other way to debate than to take your words and point out how they may be incorrect. I would be willing to take the other side of the debate and argue why the film is genuine. Would you be willing to choose the other side of the debate and argue why the film is a fake?

True skeptic indeed.

Anyway, good luck in your endeavors.


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 28, 2008)

I really don't see any true refutation, considering it has all been addressed in my previous post ( but false claims is kinda your thing) but a point by point refutation of every one of your posts hasn't dissuaded you in the least either, but, as you stated the circumstances surrounding the footage do seem very fishy. I myself wrote it off the first five hundred times i saw it. way too many coincidences just happened to come together at the perfect time. I fully understand why you write it off as well. Paterson's friend STILL though stands by what he saw. I know every point you brought up very well. It still doesn't mean your not wrong.
Planet of the apes didn't use animatronics btw. Most of the rhetoric about the films validity comes from the "fact" patterson got tired of the constant barrage of criticism and looky lous that wouldn't leave him alone so HE said HIMSELF he faked it(which is a false claim the loch ness monster guy admitted faking his pics not patterson). which led to all types of other stories (like the guy who claimed to be the one in the monkey suit) the reason though that he went out searching was because he claimed to have seen the creature in that area before. and like you stated one of the most illusive creatures in the world just happened to be standing right there like "here I am heres my titties whats up" though the sound of horses has been known NOT to spook wild animals like the sound of humans do. 

Try this on for size (pun intended) and try out your horse shit debating technique with the Associate professor of Anatomy & Anthropology Idaho State University Pocatello, Idaho http://www.bfro.net/news/challenge/green.asp
:cut and pasted from the above site:
The Patterson footage has never been debunked as a hoax. No one has ever demonstrated how it was done. Neither the original "costume," nor a matching costume, has ever been presented by honest skeptics, nor by various imposters who claim to have worn the costume.

Large amounts of money have been spent _trying_ to make a matching costume. The best Hollywood costume design talents have been brought to the task, but have never succeeded. The British Broadcasting Corporation spent the most money so far. They failed miserably. .

Every attempt and failure to make a similar costume strengthens the case for authenticity of the Patterson footage. Comparing a man in a costume side by side with the Patterson creature in motion helps highlight the striking anatomical peculiarities. 

If you hear debunking claims in the future, be ready to ask the obvious questions:

Where is the costume?
If the original costume is gone, why can't they make an identical costume and do it again? Why is that so hard?
Why does the news media always trumpet every half-baked "man in the costume" story that comes along without asking for the obvious proof, which should be so simple to provide?

CHECK FUCKING MATE PAL


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## email468 (May 28, 2008)

you are truly obsessed and i do leave you to it!


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## stickyicky77 (May 28, 2008)

ace1059 said:


> OK so i was in upper state new york on a indian res. for a mission trip with my church. So its been like a week and im walkin back to the camping are with sum of the kids (we just got back from some tribal dance the elders performed) and it was gettin dark, so w were taking this trail through the woods and i kept thinking that there was somthing in the woods cuz i kept hearing stuff, i just ignored it cuz i thought it was just a squirrel or sum shit. but then this huge ass dead tree falls over in front of the trail and im like wtf that could been on us, so were almost to the camps and im looking back and i swear i saw like this head pop out behind a tree (not at the bottom of the tree but like 20 feet up) the head looked two have 2 horns, not like 2 little spikes but the type of horns that was one the movie "hell boy" (u know when he groes them out) so ya i was really fukin scared and we ran back. those damn indians!!! just kiddin bout the damn indian thing lol.......believe or dont believe me
> View attachment 81066


It was Big Foot.


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 28, 2008)

email468 said:


> you are truly obsessed and i do leave you to it!


your tag line fits you well. now that i just completely annihilated you and your crap you have nothing left to say but that i'm obsessed hahahahaha so typical of want-to-be know-it-alls. next time, don't bring a peeshooter to an AK fight ok bud


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## fdd2blk (May 28, 2008)

email468 said:


> are you asking me or anybody?
> I am, of course, guessing but i would say you probably saw an airplane. One of the few that was permitted to take off.



i'm asking anybody. exactly who was "permitted" to fly? i'm pretty sure the skies were closed.


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## stickyicky77 (May 28, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i'm asking anybody. exactly who was "permitted" to fly? i'm pretty sure the skies were closed.


The U.S.A.F that was controlling the air space and was looking to shoot down anything that was flying unauthorized.


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 28, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i saw something weird. it was just after 9/11. all airspace over the US was closed. 0 flights allowed. i went out in my backyard and was having a smoke. i heard a noise. wait a minute ....... that's a plane. big huge white jet. long body and wings. way up high. flew right over my house. in california.


I saw several planes of the fighter jet variety during that time they were mock dogfighting over the lake near where i live only at night and would go into the wee hours of the morning. you would swear they were right over your house when those after burners kicked on. but what you saw was probably the bin laden family leaving the country considering THEY were the only ones allowed to fly during that time (look it up) thats 100% true


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## fdd2blk (May 28, 2008)

FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> I saw several planes of the fighter jet variety during that time they were mock dogfighting over the lake near where i live only at night and would go into the wee hours of the morning. you would swear they were right over your house when those after burners kicked on. but what you saw was probably the bin laden family leaving the country considering THEY were the only ones allowed to fly during that time (look it up) thats 100% true


it is, too.  you're probably right.


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## Lacy (May 29, 2008)

*Wow email. You ntwo are banging heads in this thread as *
*well.*
* *


email468 said:


> you are truly obsessed and i do leave you to it!


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## Ethnobotanist (May 29, 2008)

Lacy said:


> *Wow email. You ntwo are banging heads in this thread as *
> *well.*
> * *


Ms. Lacy, I want to hear about some of the weirdness you've witnessed.
Don't be shy now!

~Ethno


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## Ethnobotanist (May 29, 2008)

FrostyTHEgrowmaN said:


> your tag line fits you well. now that i just completely annihilated you and your crap you have nothing left to say but that i'm obsessed hahahahaha so typical of want-to-be know-it-alls. next time, don't bring a peeshooter to an AK fight ok bud


I don't think you've annihilated anyone, Frosty. I get what you're saying, and I've heard such things before as well, but you've provided absolutely no evidence to back up your claims, empirical or otherwise.

Oh, and I roll deep with a fully loaded AK.
Murder cowards in their sleep like the IRA.
Not really.
~Ethno


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 29, 2008)

Ethnobotanist said:


> I don't think you've annihilated anyone, Frosty. I get what you're saying, and I've heard such things before as well, but you've provided absolutely no evidence to back up your claims, empirical or otherwise.
> 
> Oh, and I roll deep with a fully loaded AK.
> Murder cowards in their sleep like the IRA.
> ...


 and I give two shits and a bottle of piss what you think why? You obviously have no idea what we where discussing. Scroll back through and read some posts before pipping up again. or you could do the intelligent thing and either have something to offer to the conversation or mind ya own mufukin bizniss
The debate was centered around whether or not the patterson footage was hoaxed (NOTHING ELSE) I offered up several scientific studies and scientist who said IT WAS NOT. He offered up "some guy said he wore the suit" and "glowing ducks look like ufos" As his proof ( I added this since your apparently not a big reader).
. and again i'll slap this up here, http://www.bfro.net/news/challenge/green.asp dust off YOUR PhD and go argue with this guy


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 29, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> it is, too.  you're probably right.


 you should of had that lady in yer pic take a shot at um


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## HotNSexyMILF (May 29, 2008)

So.. from 13 pages I've concluded that nearly every single person has experienced something "unexplainable". And that there are many people ready to step in and cast stones- to put people back into their society training. The things I have seen and experienced go against everything they taught me in school, everything you're supposed to believe is possible. One could easily dismiss everything I have experienced, and try to argue away everything. But honestly, I don't care. I experienced it, I have searched out for a reasonable explanation, I made a conclusion, and I am not trying to convince you of my experiences, so why are YOU interested in telling me what I did or didn't see. Hence, I will remain silent of my experiences.

It has been so ingrained into society that so many things are not possible, that so many things don't exist. This makes it automatically a hard topic for people to talk about, just admitting and telling the story of something "crazy and impossible" is a task of bravery. People go into it knowing they will be ridiculed. Also, knowing the society reaction to such things will drive people to look for "reasonable explanations" immediately, before ever telling anyone else about it. So right away when people talk of these types of things we should assume they have looked at the obvious reasons and that this may require some truly open minded inquiry.

Every single person claims their personal right to believe and say what they want- yet most people do not give others the same respect. By ridiculing and trying to 'tear apart' people's stories you're attacking their right to say and believe what they want.

Our world is made of possibilities, not absolutes. 

All my own opinion. 
Peace & Love. 

P.S. Fdd. About the planes- I am aware that while no one in the country was allowed to fly they were escorting Bin Laden family members out of the country. I'd imagine it was someone important or entitled.


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## fdd2blk (May 29, 2008)

it came in from over the pacific ocean. i live 40 miles from the coast. it came from the east and flew to the west. i always figured it was "air force one". they had the president on a plane circling somewhere.


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (May 29, 2008)

HotNSexyMILF said:


> So.. from 13 pages I've concluded that nearly every single person has experienced something "unexplainable". And that there are many people ready to step in and cast stones- to put people back into their society training. The things I have seen and experienced go against everything they taught me in school, everything you're supposed to believe is possible. One could easily dismiss everything I have experienced, and try to argue away everything. But honestly, I don't care. I experienced it, I have searched out for a reasonable explanation, I made a conclusion, and I am not trying to convince you of my experiences, so why are YOU interested in telling me what I did or didn't see. Hence, I will remain silent of my experiences.
> 
> It has been so ingrained into society that so many things are not possible, that so many things don't exist. This makes it automatically a hard topic for people to talk about, just admitting and telling the story of something "crazy and impossible" is a task of bravery. People go into it knowing they will be ridiculed. Also, knowing the society reaction to such things will drive people to look for "reasonable explanations" immediately, before ever telling anyone else about it. So right away when people talk of these types of things we should assume they have looked at the obvious reasons and that this may require some truly open minded inquiry.
> 
> ...


 Eloquently put thank you


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## kingpapawawa (May 31, 2008)

10 years ago i was working at a psychiatric hospital. we had ~30 patients at the time. at 1am all of the patients were asleep except 1. she was dead. patient was found sitting on the toilet, dead as a doornail. patient was removed from the room by 2am without waking any other patients.

at 630am i admitted a psychotic woman in her 50's. black, history of abusing crack, history of hearing voices. patient was escorted to her room which happened to be the same room the woman died in earlier. within 5 minutes of being in the room the new patient walked up to me at the nurses station and said.

"i'm NOT staying in that room, there IS a DEAD WHITE WOMAN sitting on the toilet!"

to this day i wonder... whose crazy... us or them


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## rezo (May 31, 2008)

few years ago my friend called and aked if i would come over. she said she heard a noise in her attic. i came over and heard what sounded like a racoon or a cat or something . so i go up in the attic and its a fucking crackhead sleeping in her attic. he broke in through the garage took a bunch of clothes out of the dryer climbed into the attic and made a bed of clothes(that were still wet) and went to sleep. i kicked the shit out of him and ran his ass down the street. then we find out he peed himself on the pile of clothes while asleep. fuckin crackheads


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## Wordz (May 31, 2008)

fdd2blk said:


> i'm asking anybody. exactly who was "permitted" to fly? i'm pretty sure the skies were closed.



The saudis had at least 8 aircraft around that stopped in at least 12 cities and picked up at least 140 passengers. At least 24 members were bin laden family. This is at the same time that former president clinton was out of the country and not allowed to return.


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## doowmd (Oct 20, 2009)

rezo said:


> few years ago my friend called and aked if i would come over. she said she heard a noise in her attic. i came over and heard what sounded like a racoon or a cat or something . so i go up in the attic and its a fucking crackhead sleeping in her attic. he broke in through the garage took a bunch of clothes out of the dryer climbed into the attic and made a bed of clothes(that were still wet) and went to sleep. i kicked the shit out of him and ran his ass down the street. then we find out he peed himself on the pile of clothes while asleep. fuckin crackheads


due! that is f*ckin hilarious!!!! it was nice to have read that funny shit to kinda have lightened the mood up since it had become a pissin contest for like 10 pages! lol here's a good 1:
i was up pretty late, bored, on the net checking out various sites (riu shout out!!) when i started hearing noise outside. at first i thought i was stoned and trippin, but after like the third time i got up and went outside. now keep in mind that i am uber stoned and its all foggy and shit out. i'm standing on my carport lookin out at the woods thinking someone might be "casing the joint" or something lol. i turn and all of a sudden this god awful sound comes from beneath my feet and scares the fuckin dogshit out of me!!!???!!! its a damn sardine can we had fed the cat out of. i had stepped on the can unknowingly and when i turned to look in another direction i dragged my leg and the can was dragged along the concrete. u can imagine the noise it made. so i laughed at myself, thought 'maybe your too high?' then thought 'NAH lol" and went back in to finish my j. thats mine. lets get this thread goin again and here anyone else's wierd/funny/wierd and funny shit.


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