# *advanced techniques



## CROPALOTAPOT (Dec 12, 2009)

I thought I would start this thread to gain and share interesting and in depth technical growing tips and tricks with everyone. 

I will start this off with oxygen in your water, obviously super important for healthy plant growth. Many dwc operations fail or do not achieve what can be yielded due to a lack of air brought to the water. Oxygen generators are being used in agriculture today to increase DO levels in water majorly. I have ordered an Oxy-Gen system that converts the hydrogen molecule in water into oxygen. If that didn't blow your mind how about Sulpher Plasma Lighting. It is the closest spectrum man has come to the sun so far and looks just like something from star trek!.

If anyone is interested in how to build your own oxy-gen system you can built it with only 75 bucks in gadgets from an electrical store.

It basically electrifies your nutrient solution at 10,000 intervals per second charging the water creating oxygen rich water.


anyone have a way to keep pH stable through healthy plant consumption?


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## Redeflect (Dec 12, 2009)

That isn't too smart... you're using electrolysis to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. To begin, 95% of cathodes and anodes slowly leech into the water. That gets metals into your water, some of which can cause deficiencies. Secondly, water has a VERY HIGH resistance to electric current... you need acids or salts in the water to facilitate the electrolosis (both of which are no good for the plants in large amounts). Thirdly, you have nutrients in that water... many of those nutrients will break down into harmful things like ammonia along with the hydrogen and oxygen.

If you really want to use electrolysis to give oxygen to your plant, electrolize different water and capture the oxygen... then pump it through your nutrient solution. You can then re-collect it and pump it through again repeatedly.


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## Stuski (Dec 12, 2009)

Redeflect said:


> That isn't too smart... you're using electrolysis to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. To begin, 95% of cathodes and anodes slowly leech into the water. That gets metals into your water, some of which can cause deficiencies. Secondly, water has a VERY HIGH resistance to electric current... you need acids or salts in the water to facilitate the electrolosis (both of which are no good for the plants in large amounts). Thirdly, you have nutrients in that water... many of those nutrients will break down into harmful things like ammonia along with the hydrogen and oxygen.
> 
> If you really want to use electrolysis to give oxygen to your plant, electrolize different water and capture the oxygen... then pump it through your nutrient solution. You can then re-collect it and pump it through again repeatedly.


What he said


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## CROPALOTAPOT (Dec 12, 2009)

Actually its really smart. Dr Clark is the one who has thought this design up for humans and it is an electrolysis device that you build that is meant to kill off parasites in the body. I have introduced this into hydroponic reservoirs, electrolysis will pass through nutrient rich water and although I don't like salts their is a small amount in my water. But don't take my word for it the result is the exact same device as the " Oxy-Gen" system that does the same thing only costs 1,200 dollars and is all the rage right now in a nearby city of mine.

My unit is powered by only a small 9v battery and the two ends being metal but only in the water for 5mins a day and then wiped off. vwalla! . 

The results are in! my plants love the dissolved oxygen I give them! massive football sized cola's. 1 pound plants with ease (In dwc or kfb).
Noticed a lot of bashing, maybe I gave the wrong impression with the DO device. 
I am not trying to sell anything, only share knowledge so before you go bashing this method why wouldn't you both ask me some questions on it?!

Also my DO meter doesn't lie. It will increase vastly when I introduce electrolysis to the reservoir.
I am buying an Oxy-Gen system though for my 10,000w grow because my little oxygen generator won't cut it! why? because it works on the same proven principle!....ELECTROLYSIS.


Plus guys the filthy dirt farming forums are under "soil" Stuski I feel like I need to take a shower and bag up my clothes after having you on my thread. Yeeaaaccck MITES! You don't have that problem with a clean hydro setup ya know!.

Plants with electrolysis done to the water ----> https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/275991-3600-watt-dutch-tables-jamaican.html#post3436386

Now.... Any smart comments?


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## CROPALOTAPOT (Dec 12, 2009)

CROPALOTAPOT said:


> I thought I would start this thread to gain and share interesting and in depth technical growing tips and tricks with everyone.


Remember why I started this thread, all I wanna do is learn....

Arguing I do with my girlfriend and I HATE it...


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## kushRx (Dec 12, 2009)

I would like to know more about this, i dunno why people gotta always try to have brain wars, and if you think somethin is bad why you gotta go about it like a smart ass.

Would this work with every form of growing?


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## Earl (Dec 13, 2009)

Why not just use bottled oxygen from the wealding supply store ?


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## Redeflect (Dec 13, 2009)

If i think its bad I'll explain why its bad as i did... would you prefer me to say "this thing is no good" and leave it at that? You're foolish KushRx if you think this thread is only going to get positive info. You get the ups and downs... thats the reality of learning. So stop criticizing those who criticize and learn to pay attention to all the information given to you.

I never said it wouldn't work... I said it requires salts in the water and can leech metals into the water and can release poisonous gases... make your own decision.


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## repvip (Dec 13, 2009)

I'm impressed! Learn something new everyday 

Patent # 6,689,262-B2 - the details behind the electrolysis...



> In operation, a small device with an O2 emitter 1.485 inches in diameter was driven by 4AA batteries. The critical distance was held at 0.050 inches with a Viton spacer.* Five gallons of water became saturated in seven minutes.* This size is suitable for raising oxygen levels in an aquarium or bait bucket.... The present invention produces microbubbles and nanobubbles of oxygen via the electrolysis of water... O2 forms bubbles which are too small to break the surface tension of the fluid. These bubbles remain suspended indefinitely in the fluid and, when allowed to build up, make the fluid opalescent or milky. *Only after several hours do the bubbles begin to coalesce on the sides of the container,** and the water clears. During that time, the water is supersaturated with oxygen.* In contrast, the H2 formed readily coalesces into larger bubbles which are discharged into the atmosphere, as can be seen by bubble formation at the cathode.


Cool idea, but it's way out of my reach. Would love to see some actual pics of the roots it could produce!

EDIT: didn't want to create another post

After doing a little more research...
An upper limit for elevated root zone dissolved oxygen concentration for tomato
makes me think more isn't always better...


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## CROPALOTAPOT (Dec 13, 2009)

Redeflect said:


> If i think its bad I'll explain why its bad as i did... would you prefer me to say "this thing is no good" and leave it at that? You're foolish KushRx if you think this thread is only going to get positive info.
> .



Wow guy! someone had a bad harvest...

Anyways, thanks for the positive feedback guys.. I will post up more information, large scale dwc setup with Oxygen generators, root shots and the commercial grade Oxy-Gen system as soon as it arrives..

I have been growing hydroponically using electrolysis for around 9 years now. I initially learned about the device created by Dr Clark through my dad who is big into natural medicine. Then I researched it and read of many tests done in the 1940's by Dr Lekyvouskie (not sure if spelling is correct) by digging a 8ft hole and burying a zinc plate and 100ft away the same size hole with a copper plate, finally connecting the two with a wire and planting his vegetable crop in the soil above. The side by side test was done with two different crops of the same variety and the results where jaw dropping. The negative Ions gathered and the given result is much the same as a thunder storm etc. It is actually called (The Oscillator). A simple one can be built by overlapping a copper wire by an inch or so forming a circle and then connected to bamboo steaks or something so it can be placed around your plant. The ions will gather within the overlapping copper. My dad and I grew a side by side spider plant with an oscillator and it was NUTS!.... no joke

I will posts pictures of charged plants, I used to charge pot seeds when sprouting..lol


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## fatman7574 (Dec 13, 2009)

Why are you choosing the poorest pot growing system available based upon the worse possible methodology and trying to improve it so that it can become just a bit better. Even a bit better is still poor. Just start out with a better system. It is one thing to do DWC because it is cheap and relatively easy. It is something else to take a sows ear and dump in more money to try to make a silk purse out of it. Water can honly old a small amount of dissolved oxygen no matter what you do to it or with it.


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## fatman7574 (Dec 13, 2009)

Did Earl really write that? No, it certainly was a joke or a misprint.


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## CROPALOTAPOT (Dec 13, 2009)

DWC A poor system?!!... Water, Nutrients & Oxygen a bad system?!

I Run DWC or KFB systems with Medical Marijuana grows were I am limited to 49 plants so growing the plant out large is essential.
I love all hydro setups and have run just about all of em. I do love aeroponics for many reasons but find that it is best with increased plant numbers so I combine many aspects of the methods I love.
High water flow between buckets, extreme amounts of air in the finest bubbles possible, oxygen generators, water chillers. For the DWC
KFB ie: Krusty bucket or Freedom buckets are great for larger areas (warehouse space). With a KFB you only have an inch of water in the bottom of the bucket with soaker hoses attached to many (depending on amount of buckets) commercial grade air pumps. If an air pump says its good for 80 air stones I use it on no more than 10 buckets. This froths the nutrients up into the bucket giving the roots oxygenated nutrient froth, and that massive pot with Hydroton rocks holding the plant in means MASSIVE plants. I didn't create this method I am only explaining it because this is the method you chose to bash...



Cheers everyone.


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## NewGrowth (Dec 13, 2009)

I read about this recently, looks like a cool concept.


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## CROPALOTAPOT (Dec 13, 2009)

I am not being close minded though fatman, thanks for some info there. I did not know that water will only hold a "small" amount of oxygen and am currently checking into it. I have seen some amazing things with DWC and KFB non the less. Stupidly large buds...


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## fatman7574 (Dec 13, 2009)

Think of how much faster and larger with the other systems. I am not saying they do not work, just that they offer the least amount of O2 of any non soil system except with the possible acception of some poorly set up small tube low pressure aero system with constantly running water. Most DWC systems are dependent upon what ever DO can be added to their water through the use of airstones and maybe a small pump. Few of the DWC systems have a large percentage of their plants root masses is in air where they can get unlimited oxygen. While that may be adequate in combination with a cold reservior temp it is still very limiting with the small added boost to the DO and the increased DO allowable in cold water verus room temperature air. Is a DWC grow r worth the reservoir chilling hassle so as to mantain survival and poor growing. That is up to the individual grower to decide. If DWC was a good system pot would have evolved into growing in such a way in the wild as that option was widely open in its evolutionary path. I don't need to hear the stupid crap about no HIE lighting in nay ature, as the sun light is better tha crappy halides and HPS. Pot did not choose the aquaculture path because it does not even work as well as growing in soil or snad etc. At least traditional hydro, aero and NWT are all similar to how they grow in nature in desert and arid climates. 

Compare the amount of Oxygen in air in comparison to dissolved oxygen in water. There is a pittance of dissolved air in water comparatively. Over 21% in air and a small fraction of 1% in water. The amounts of O2 in water is so small it is measured in Parts per million. 100% staurated water at sea level contains less that 9 ppm of Oxygen. Oxygen in air is 50,000,000 ppm.


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## T905 (Dec 14, 2009)

very nice icic


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## CROPALOTAPOT (Dec 15, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> Most DWC systems are dependent upon what ever DO can be added to their water through the use of airstones and maybe a small pump.


 OK! FATMAN and negative FATMEN of the community... LARGE COMMERCIAL GRADE AIR PUMPS MUST BE USED for proper dwc growth (and many of them)... Only then when you can afford all these expensive air pumps and oxygen generators can DWC be as amazing for you all as it is for me. You see, small closet little jimmy rigged dwc setups with tiny air pumps may not be the greatest. But thats like being a Hydro racists or something... Have you not cared to try larger air pumps? order in oxygen diffusers instead of lame little Pet store air stones that break? 

Or better yet, research KFB buckets a little and you will find that they CANNOT be run without first spending 1,000 to 5,000 depending on setup size on COMMERCIAL GRADE AIR PUMPS!.. why you may ask? because the KFB bucket must be aerated so much that the nutrient froth rises up into the bucket... Cutting the need for water chiller units and allowing for much much larger plants to be grown than in Aero..

Like I said before, I love the aero methods too but they work on plant numbers. And I grow mine out LARGE. To each his own

BUT TO CALL DWC A POOR METHOD?!

why dont we just post up some of the biggest buds that we have grown or seen grown with each setup and see which ones win?

(budshot from a DWC grow)


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## Earl (Dec 15, 2009)

Nice fat buds to satisfy your soul......

.


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## streetlegal (Dec 15, 2009)

CROPALOTAPOT said:


> OK! FATMAN and negative FATMEN of the community... LARGE COMMERCIAL GRADE AIR PUMPS MUST BE USED for proper dwc growth (and many of them)... Only then when you can afford all these expensive air pumps and oxygen generators can DWC be as amazing for you all as it is for me. You see, small closet little jimmy rigged dwc setups with tiny air pumps may not be the greatest. But thats like being a Hydro racists or something... Have you not cared to try larger air pumps? order in oxygen diffusers instead of lame little Pet store air stones that break?
> 
> Or better yet, research KFB buckets a little and you will find that they CANNOT be run without first spending 1,000 to 5,000 depending on setup size on COMMERCIAL GRADE AIR PUMPS!.. why you may ask? because the KFB bucket must be aerated so much that the nutrient froth rises up into the bucket... Cutting the need for water chiller units and allowing for much much larger plants to be grown than in Aero..
> 
> ...


Dont even get into it with fartman, hes a negative troll who im 99% sure google researches his replys... and i dont think he even grows

FAT nugs btw


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## CROPALOTAPOT (Dec 15, 2009)

Haha, thanks Streetlegal good to know. I was done with responding to any stupid comments anyway. 
I have only started posting on threads recently and have always despised the stupid bickering that always goes on in forums... 

Cheers!


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## fatman7574 (Dec 15, 2009)

Simpy use a venturi valve as recomended by horticultyuralists or use a needle wheel pum. They both increase DO a great deal more than any reasonable number of air pumps. Small bubbles in profusion incrase DO beter than the same amount of air in the form of larger bubbles. Simple proven science. It is not my fault some people do not like to learn what works better. http://www.petsolutions.com/Turbo-Venturi-Valve+I12515435+C1.aspx You just use a submersible pump and install the venturi valve on the enrtance and run an air hose up to above the water line. The pumps water causes a vacumn that sucks in air. Y The pumps impeller chi ops the air inti very tiny bubbles. They have a higher ratio of surface are for theirair volume so they oxygenate the water more. Quite simple. Or they sell needle wheel pumps set up to do the same thing. They are a bit more expensie but chop the air up a bit better.


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## fatman7574 (Dec 15, 2009)

Earl said:


> Nice fat buds to satisfy your soul......
> 
> Like you know what a nice fat bud is.


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## CROPALOTAPOT (Dec 16, 2009)

Just thought I would let everyone know what I just found out...

BARLEY STRAW RAFTS & PELLETS 
Barley straw rafts floating in the water are algaecidal. They are useful in hydroponic systems and reservoirs. This affect is due to the hydrogen peroxide produced by a complex series of chemical reactions as the barley decays.

^^^PAGE 141^^ http://books.google.ca/books?id=r9a9QZI9wnwC&pg=PT154&lpg=PT154&dq=Barley+straw+for+marijuana+growing&source=bl&ots=rvldzmnK2z&sig=RDEF_sYJw7dENGa5IWGgtQ4_LPM&hl=en&ei=CJopS5zgL4TUsQOMionQBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CA0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false

I am thinking of putting some in some pantyhose and throwing it in the res to float..


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## CROPALOTAPOT (Dec 16, 2009)

It can be ordered here.. http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/cat/info/24178/category.web


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## mindphuk (Dec 16, 2009)

Wow! 
Don't let the haters discourage you. People are very resistant to change and new ideas. +rep for the great info. 

Keep it up. Run a side-by-side system to show the comparison to the disbelievers. I guarantee you will have converts.


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## CROPALOTAPOT (Dec 17, 2009)

F'en eh Mindphuck.. The system that I am growing right now is a experimental table method of mine with air lines under 8 giant bags of Hydroton rock ran to a massive pond air pump (Hagen ae-80) 
It is like the KFB method in the way that all the air lines (soaker hose) under the rocks froth the nutrients up into the medium.... Mmmmm frothy nutes

I am converting these tables back into some crazy hybrid dwc when these are finished though. Its gonna be a pretty crazy setup with light rails and over 5,ooow so we can see some first hand mad scientist dwc growing when these tables are done.. Until then, I've drawn up how a KFB (Krusty Bucket) operates for those of you who don't know or where not around in the good ol' Overgrow days..

Oh I forgot to mention in the picture of the KFB bucket that the whole goal their is to keep your water\nutrient level to only an inch or so, so that it can froth all the way up into the bucket with the power of your massive air pumps.. 

Cheers..


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## OregonMeds (Dec 17, 2009)

Hardly anyone has a clue what a krusty bucket is on here it seems, I've tried to talk about them before when I was debating that or med patient bins like doubled's is doing on thcfarmer, hardly a peep.

If this guy ran krusty buckets he knows his stuff, shut up and listen.

Have you heard of the med patient bins yet? Stomping on krusty bucket records...
If you have seen it, do you think this would have a positive impact on that system?
Also wouldn't the hydrogen build up and become dangerous in a sealed room like these systems usually use?


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## fatman7574 (Dec 17, 2009)

CROPALOTAPOT said:


> F'en eh Mindphuck.. The system that I am growing right now is a experimental table method of mine with air lines under 8 giant bags of Hydroton rock ran to a massive pond air pump (Hagen ae-80)
> It is like the KFB method in the way that all the air lines (soaker hose) under the rocks froth the nutrients up into the medium.... Mmmmm frothy nutes
> 
> I am converting these tables back into some crazy hybrid dwc when these are finished though. Its gonna be a pretty crazy setup with light rails and over 5,ooow so we can see some first hand mad scientist dwc growing when these tables are done.. Until then, I've drawn up how a KFB (Krusty Bucket) operates for those of you who don't know or where not around in the good ol' Overgrow days..
> ...


It is simply easier to use new technolgy to create the frothy bubbles. Use a needle wheel pump or several or use air venturis on the entrance to water pumps. The water pasing through the venturi sucks in air and the pumps impeler chops it into smaller bubbles. It is realy like a needle wj heel pump but with a standard impeller the bubbles are larger. 

If you look at the water from a needle wheel pump the water is so full of really little bubbles it looks almost like milk. They are used by the thousands of reef aquarium keepers to supply protein skimmers with frothy water.
http://www.aquacave.com/sedra-ksp-2500-needle-brwheel-water-pump-1393.html


Venturi valve: http://compare.ebay.com/like/300360377726

Hydrogen build up???? Hydroton rock is simply small kiln fired clay balls used as a growing media.


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## mindphuk (Dec 17, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> It is simply easier to use new technolgy to create the frothy bubbles. Use a needle wheel pump or several or use air venturis on the entrance to water pumps. The water pasing through the venturi sucks in air and the pumps impeler chops it into smaller bubbles. It is realy like a needle wj heel pump but with a standard impeller the bubbles are larger.
> 
> If you look at the water from a needle wheel pump the water is so full of really little bubbles it looks almost like milk. They are used by the thousands of reef aquarium keepers to supply protein skimmers with frothy water.
> http://www.aquacave.com/sedra-ksp-2500-needle-brwheel-water-pump-1393.html
> ...


I have a Ocean Runner pump with a needle wheel that I was supposed to use to replace the pump on my Turbofloter. Yep, that thing chops up the water really nice. 

Just keep in mind all of that air is 79% nitrogen and 21% oxygen. Electrolysis creates much higher levels of DO.


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## fatman7574 (Dec 17, 2009)

Yes but you will not be breaking down all the H2O into its seperate components, therefore the amount available for conversion matters little as you will be converting very little. The water pump is already present and in use. You would simply be lowering thw water flow a small amount as air will replce just a small part of the previous water flow volume. 

Not a free lunch but close as no extra purchased energy is being input, but a lot of benefits are gained at the small cost of a little less water flow. With a 3/4 venturi valve using a 1/4" inlet your only giving up about ten percent of your water flow (area = 0.049 sq inches from 0.442 square inches) for a massive amount of oxygen packed small bubbles. 

There are many oxygen enrichment methods used in hydroponics, water treatment and waste water treatment processes,and electrolysis has never been found to be economical or reliable enough for those industries/facilities. Probably at least a dozen research grants in U.S. universities per year have electrolysis produced O2 initially as part of the research. It is nearly always discarded quite early in the research. 

If it can not pass initial testing and review at a preliminary satge when tight controls can be used then typically it is never even considered for commercial use where controls are more lax. Maybe to create O2 on the moon from found frozen waterwhere an unlimited budget and high tech controls would be the norm.


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## repvip (Dec 17, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> There are many oxygen enrichment methods used in hydroponics, water treatment and waste water treatment processes,and electrolysis has never been found to be economical or reliable enough for those industries/facilities. Probably at least a dozen research grants in U.S. universities per year have electrolysis produced O2 initially as part of the research. It is nearly always discarded quite early in the research.


It's true... I recently read a wastewater treatment project that compared a couple of oxygen enrichment methods, and dumped the electrolysis halfway through. Not trying to be a hater.. I still love the idea. 

fatman I have another venturi valve question, sorry.
If it's installed before the pump, with an air hose out of the reservoir, will the water pump suck in enough air on it's own, or do you hook up an aquarium pump to it?


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## fatman7574 (Dec 17, 2009)

Just on its own it will suck in a huge amount of air. I have a 6 foot tall reef aquarium protein skimmer with a 3600 gph pump that is just fed air through a venturi. They work extremely well.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 17, 2009)

I still didn't get an answer on the hydrogen build up. If you are using electrolysis to split oxygen and hydrogen the hydrogen has to go somewhere, and in a sealed room would there be enough buildup at any time to cause any problems? Hydrogen isn't something to screw around with, so I figured it's best to get a perfectly clear answer.
If you need some ventilation to run it, it's best to know that up front. For every amount of oxygen there would be double that amount of hydrogen released.


thanks man...


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## fatman7574 (Dec 17, 2009)

OregonMeds said:


> I still didn't get an answer on the hydrogen build up. If you are using electrolysis to split oxygen and hydrogen the hydrogen has to go somewhere, and in a sealed room would there be enough buildup at any time to cause any problems? Hydrogen isn't something to screw around with, so I figured it's best to get a perfectly clear answer.
> If you need some ventilation to run it, it's best to know that up front. For every amount of oxygen there would be double that amount of hydrogen released.
> 
> 
> thanks man...


It really depends on the process used, as Ph of the water solution means i]the hydrogen formas as a gas H2 or it is instead in an acid solution tied to part of the oxygen as OH instead. Even if released as H2 gas it could be fairly easily managed as H2 gas is extremely light with a mass about 1/15 of room air. Just a vent with a rise would have enough draft to remove the hydrogen without a fan even being needed.


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## OregonMeds (Dec 18, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> It really depends on the process used, as Ph of the water solution means i]the hydrogen formas as a gas H2 or it is instead in an acid solution tied to part of the oxygen as OH instead. Even if released as H2 gas it could be fairly easily managed as H2 gas is extremely light with a mass about 1/15 of room air. Just a vent with a rise would have enough draft to remove the hydrogen without a fan even being needed.


True it would collect on the ceiling if anywhere and easily vent, I'd just have to know if I needed to install that vent. At any rate it sounds like just the thing I'd want to try, I'll look into it more. I'm going to go balls out with co2 and all and venting isn't in the plan but we'll see about it and maybe see if this adds to a system like dd's.


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## bradyforpope (Dec 19, 2009)

can you explain how to make the Oxy-Gen machine yourself...thanks


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## OregonMeds (Dec 19, 2009)

You can't.

I was only talking about making a water pressure switch.

However it's the same thing as a generic tankless water heater, if you need to save money they sell for less than one with a horticultural brand name on it. And if you buy a tankless water heater you can take advantage of the grants or credits or whatever energy program bonuses you can get at state, federal, and local gas company level. (If you take the time to look into those it can save up to $200 off.)

You'd still need a co2 controller or environment controller though... And the installation, and the cooling for it. Not the cheap way to go, only the most cost effective/easiest long term.


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## Drgdogg (Jan 15, 2010)

Hey CROPALOTAPOT good job... I'm doing some experimentation with electrolysis for DWC mainly for noise reduction... My question is what type of anode are you using SS 18-8, marine stainless steel? I've been checking some anode patents and it seems that carbon or iridium oxide coated titanium are the best anodes in keeping the solution from contaminating... Also you mentioned a "DO" meter, did you run a before and after electrolysis? Could you tell me the numbers? Did you notice EC/PPM going up?
I've built a prototype and so far it's been milking the water pretty good and fast, but if let it sit for a while I notice some yellowing of the solution (some iron on my anode ) which should be lemonade colour more or less (I use CNS17 btw)... Anyway, once again, good job man in sharing some of your experience with electrolysis.


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## fatman7574 (Jan 15, 2010)

The simpliest method would be to just upgrade to a better growing system where you are not dependent on artificially high reservoir water DO. Cheaped down stystems that are highly dependent on artficially high DO levels are sorta absurd anyway as they are just so prone to problems. So now your talking using a cheaped down system with ggod dollars thrown after bad to try to make up for the shortcomings of a bad system. Too much like beating the dead horse. Get a good system where artifically high DO levels are not needed and don't worry about electrolylsis.


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## Drgdogg (Jan 15, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> The simpliest method would be to just upgrade to a better growing system where you are not dependent on artificially high reservoir water DO. Cheaped down stystems that are highly dependent on artficially high DO levels are sorta absurd anyway as they are just so prone to problems. So now your talking using a cheaped down system with ggod dollars thrown after bad to try to make up for the shortcomings of a bad system. Too much like beating the dead horse. Get a good system where artifically high DO levels are not needed and don't worry about electrolylsis.


First of all I'm very happy with DWC (so far the best way in my opinion), second I notice a little anger on your tone, third "cheaped" down system? how much should I spend on it? a million dollars to be good... regardless, if you are going Hydroponics you better have D.O... and right now I'm not talking "supercharged" or "superoxygenated" I'm just talking about noise, water splashing, bubbling, pumps and etc...


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## fatman7574 (Jan 15, 2010)

Drgdogg said:


> First of all I'm very happy with DWC (so far the best way in my opinion), second I notice a little anger on your tone, third "cheaped" down system? how much should I spend on it? a million dollars to be good... regardless, if you are going Hydroponics you better have D.O... and right now I'm not talking "supercharged" or "superoxygenated" I'm just talking about noise, water splashing, bubbling, pumps and etc...


No anger. I really don't care if you waste time, effort or money as it is not mine that is being wasted. It is sad though thatyou are happy with a system that is very near the bottom of the pile as far as efficiencies and about the top of the list when it comes down to problems. It will however grow pot and to many that is about all that matters. As far as your opinion on the the need for high DO. No aeroponic system or inert media hydroponic supplied with nutrients from chemical fertilizers that is properly designed needs high DO water in the reservoir or delivered to its plants in water from the reservoir. Over 99% of the plants roots oxygen needs are supplied by oxygen from the air surrounding the roots. Such systems are sucessfully run using nutrients that have almost no DO and do very, very well. 

Natural levels of DO are quite adequate as the amount of O2 in air is 21% or 210,000 ppm, while the DO in water at say 68 degrees (in low salinity water) is only 8.81 ppm The only real need in non artifically high DO growing systems is to keep the reservoir water in an aerobic state.

DWC, NTF , small tube aero and bubble ponic as well as systems with water running through tubes channels and what ever that need the water to have artifically raised DO levels need this because they are cheaped down and or barely usable systems that fail without the artificially high DO levels. 

It is really not a matter to debate, just a matter of fact.


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## Drgdogg (Jan 15, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> No anger. I really don't care if you waste time, effort or money as it is not mine that is being wasted. It is sad though thatyou are happy with a system that is very near the bottom of the pile as far as efficiencies and about the top of the list when it comes down to problems. It will however grow pot and to many that is about all that matters. As far as your opinion on the the need for high DO. No aeroponic system or inert media hydroponic supplied with nutrients from chemical fertilizers that is properly designed needs high DO water in the reservoir or delivered to its plants in water from the reservoir. Over 99% of the plants roots oxygen needs are supplied by oxygen from the air surrounding the roots. Such systems are sucessfully run using nutrients that have almost no DO and do very, very well.
> 
> Natural levels of DO are quite adequate as the amount of O2 in air is 21% or 210,000 ppm, while the DO in water at say 68 degrees (in low salinity water) is only 8.81 ppm The only real need in non artifically high DO growing systems is to keep the reservoir water in an aerobic state.
> 
> ...


Ohhh Wow, really! Good to know that... Jeez all this time and I never realised... Thx fatman for your wisdom... I'm just gonna go back into my ignorance hole and suffer alone along with my stupidity and my DWC bucket...


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## fatman7574 (Jan 15, 2010)

Dude, If that is how you get your butter up go at it instead of wasting your time trying to be sarcastic to cover your childishly felt wounds.


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## Drgdogg (Jan 15, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> Dude, If that is how you get your butter up go at it instead of wasting your time trying to be sarcastic to cover your childishly felt wounds.


I just read some of your posts, you are a bitter person, I wonder why? Sorry "dude" but you are going against the topic of the Thread... so you are the one wasting time here not me! Yes that's how I get my butter up, whatever that means (one more thing for you to make fun!!! go ahead)...


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## fatman7574 (Jan 15, 2010)

Not bitter just amazed by the levels of ignorance and cheapness exhibited by some.


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## OregonMeds (Jan 16, 2010)

Fatman I get the feeling you do know a thing or two about true aero, I've been following that thread too and it would be nice to see those tree results before this turns any more sour than it already has. KFB systems will grow a cola fatter than your leg and 3-4lb trees, MPB's running 4-5lb+ trees. Can we at least see what better aero trees look like first before the thread is closed?

And just for the record they are both as much if not more aero than dwc. There is no deep to it, there's more air in both it's the action of the air pump which spits water up into the air that's the reason for the big pump not to add more DO alone but to kick that water up and make it aeroponic. 1" of water in a KFB is certainly not just DWC. I know it's not aero according to purists but you see it's not limited by air in the water most of the roots are out of water.

We should all be open to new ideas and I know those high pressure aero guys aren't wasting their time and money on nothing. You can tell they know as much if not more than anyone else here reading their thread but we just haven't seen the results yet that I know of, so please in all fairness where are they?


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## fatman7574 (Jan 16, 2010)

Dude you are a dumb ass. Next you will be making insane claims like *Oracle Buds* who claim to have seeds producing plants performing as such:

Plant height: Short, FAT
THC level %: 45%
Flowering times Faster than anything ever created 33-37 days
Yield MASSIVE 1200 g/m2 - 1400 g/m2
Grows: Indoors/OutDoors/Greenhouse
Strain Genetics: Euphoria Unlimited Bud x Elephant Bud X our unreleased Ultra Fas
Feminized Seeds: 90% Female, non-feminized
Grow Difficulty: easy
Plant Odor: moderate
Smoke Flavor: skunk berry, sweet sugar cane and basil among other undertones

Your ludicrous claims are just as impossible.

I don't post photos after spending time on one manfacturing felony I decided impressing others with photos or proving things through posting photos is not worth it. I have merely expressed facts that you choose not to believe. I don't really care either. I stand by what I have wriiten and need not show or prove facts to anyone including you. Facts just are and if you can not deal with that reality we have nothing to discuss. Even piercing a sows ear and adorning it with a diamond reing does not mean it can v be made into a silk purse. It is still just a sows ear now with the cost of a diamond added to its near worthlessness. Throwing good money at crap doesn't change the fact that it is still crap.


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## OregonMeds (Jan 16, 2010)

Ok, how about all the other true aero guys tree grows you don't have to show us yours how about in all of the internet and the world is there one good example you know of at all that we can look at? Anything...


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## fatman7574 (Jan 16, 2010)

OregonMeds said:


> Ok, how about all the other true aero guys tree grows you don't have to show us yours how about in all of the internet and the world is there one good example you know of at all that we can look at? Anything...


 
Dude, get over your self! You just are not important!

Not my job to do your research for you. Not by job or responsibility to prove anything to you. I gain nothing by proving or showing anything to you. If you are happy with what you have just stride on dude. You seem to think you already know what works best. Have fun with your choices and what little you know. 

I have seen plenty of very nice photos just in the last few days. I have seen mot re than enough photos and plants to satisfy me that I am seeing reality/fact not fiction. Most of what I here from you is just ludicrous crap, not unlike the quotes from the seed add.


As the other growers has chosen not to post photos I assume they also feel no need to prove anything to you or most forum viewers.


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## OregonMeds (Jan 16, 2010)

So to be clear you came into a thread where a dude was trying to help other people and show them things that may help and you shit on him, tell him your way is better and refuse to show us on the grounds you don't have to prove anything to anyone.

Maybe you should come in a little more helpful man. I don't need to get over myself, I don't have any superiority complex at all I fully admit I'm still just learning and nobody compared to others. And I still say I'd just like to learn your stuff but you just won't share? Ok, thanks man. If it were as easy as typing in "true aero world record indoor tree grow" in google then I could understand your unwillingness to even share a link but it's not that easy I have never seen a single example of a large true aero tree not one. You either came here to shit or help which is it? I just ask for a slice of your wisdom and a sliver of proof. It is the internet after all, anyone can claim anything and it's not an insult to ask to see something at all. I don't know why you'd be insulted it should be expected.


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## fatman7574 (Jan 16, 2010)

Let be put it in plain english. Your an *ss hole and I owe you nothing dinkus. Your being a medical marijuana user matters not to me. I am not growing for any reason really but monetary gain. I do not give to or support Norml and could care less about the leago ization of marijuana. It is a drug. I ma content with it being controlled as a dri ug. I am willing to do the time for any crime for which I am convicted. I grow beacuse I choose to grow, not for anyones need or to be an activist. I do not post to this site out of a feeling of activism.

If you want to read the thread already posted in this forum and then care to ask questions you would probably get more favorable results then trying to force me in some way to satisfy your requests. Trying to pretend that I owe you or anyone the benefits of my experience, research, work or education just because I stated a few simple facts that you do not wish to believe is not my problem fool. When you choose to actually contribute something maybe I might be willing to care what you want or need. As of now you just appear to be a lazy know it little who wants others to give you something because you are acting like an ass and therefore deserve something to shut you up. That might work with your case worker or your wife but I could care less if you throw tantrums, whine, attempt to manipulate or play games like a child. Plenty of material out there dinkus, as you are to much an *ss to be given information I recomend you use your search engine.


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## OregonMeds (Jan 16, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> Let be put it in plain english. Your an *ss hole and I owe you nothing dinkus. Your being a medical marijuana user matters not to me. I am not growing for any reason really but monetary gain. I do not give to or support Norml and could care less about the leago ization of marijuana. It is a drug. I ma content with it being controlled as a dri ug. I am willing to do the time for any crime for which I am convicted. I grow beacuse I choose to grow, not for anyones need or to be an activist. I do not post to this site out of a feeling of activism.
> 
> If you want to read the thread already posted in this forum and then care to ask questions you would probably get more favorable results then trying to force me in some way to satisfy your requests. Trying to pretend that I owe you or anyone the benefits of my experience, research, work or education just because I stated a few simple facts that you do not wish to believe is not my problem fool. When you choose to actually contribute something maybe I might be willing to care what you want or need. As of now you just appear to be a lazy know it little who wants others to give you something because you are acting like an ass and therefore deserve something to shut you up. That might work with your case worker or your wife but I could care less if you throw tantrums, whine, attempt to manipulate or play games like a child. Plenty of material out there dinkus, as you are to much an *ss to be given information I recomend you use your search engine.


Wow

I'll go work on getting over myself now...


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## fatman7574 (Jan 16, 2010)

OregonMeds said:


> Wow
> 
> I'll go work on getting over myself now...


Hopefully that is possible. I won't hold my breath waiting for a positive out come.


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## OregonMeds (Jan 16, 2010)

You keep coming across like I've been argiung with you this entire time and that I don't believe you, I don't know where you are getting this idea but you're way off base. I didn't go into that thread and ask for pictures and yields as proof as you suggest, that would be rude. I only thought it more appropriate here because of what you have been saying but nevermind. 

I never was trying to be a dick or manipulate you or act superior or whatever else has offended you, jesus...


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## fatman7574 (Jan 16, 2010)

A U.S. Patent application publication was recently released for an "Aeroponic Atomizer for Hydroculture." It is identical to the *atomix* system that sold in the UK until they sold out to a U.S. company without announcing the companies name. The inventors are listed as being from GB. 

I wonder what the markets next top of the line high dollar growing system will be in this country?


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## OregonMeds (Jan 16, 2010)

Ok well any way I apologize for whatever I said that pissed you off, I do tend to say things the wrong way and I know it and I piss people off all the time and don't mean to. 

Of we are ok now can I just ask on question. The reason I wanted to see a tree grow with true aero is because I have read there is a limit to the root mass you can support and I just have not seen it happen yet. Is there not such a limit or have I not been comprehending there are still issues you guys are working on in that respect?
I was sure there was some limit... I have only browsed though and I may be wrong. I have been busy following what my eyes have seen in other areas. I'm the kind of person who believes what he sees. The talk in that thread is obviously over my head you and I both know it, but as a new person to these areas of growing I try. I also support your growing for money, illegally, I've done that too and will be again but legally this time man. Knock yourself out. I'm playing the system...


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## fatman7574 (Jan 16, 2010)

Unfortunately as a convicted drug felon I can not obtain a permit for growing medical marijuana. 

The problem with the high pressure aero and atomized aero system (atomix systems for short) is in that their roots system are too efficient for the typical nutrient formulations. Your talking a couple teaspoons of an EC 0.5 nutrient solution sprayed for 1 second every few minutes for each 10 square feet of bed space. The fluid amount is so small and the nutrient mixed so weakly that it is better to just collect it and test it and then throw it out rather that reuse it. IE drain to waste. Other than that it reduces a plants inter nodal spaces down to where a plant that grows 5 to 6 foot tall in a standard hydro system is only 30 to 36 inches tall in an atomix type system. It does not lessen the number of branches though. It just compresses everything into a shorter plant. That means to get a 6 foot tree you will need to grow an outdoor strain that is meant to be 10 to 12 foot tall at harvest in a standard hydro or outdoor system. A plant intended to be 24 inches will be 12 inches etc. 

A bushy plant becomes a very dense bushy plant where inner branches die due to shading. If you like to lollipop a plant the atomix is likely going to make you very happy. The typical indica/sativa seeds now available are like short SOG material for the atomix. The short auto are dwarfs. Yields are about the same but timing is reduced. There is definitely no lack in root capability. Roots are huge hair balls that must actually be controlled so as to not become to large. There is no limitation to what the roots can support as far as height/size. You can purposely cause over watering which minimizes root hair numbers. This increases secondary roots and the plants grow taller as the inter nodal spaces get larger. With plants that are vegged severa weeks the stretch during budding is almost non existent. 

The plants will gain from the increased light intensity being shorter but they have to deal with the increased shading from being denser and bushier if not bred for minimal side branching. Mildew is also a bigger issue due to increased density.

Can't really ask for a better system for SOGs of high temp and fast cycles. But that also means CO2, and dehumidification. The roots actually take up nutrients better at temps in the mid to high eighties. And the reservoir DO can be anything above anoxic (oxygen free). No matter how long you try to veg though a plant in atomix will not be as tall as the same plant in a lesser hydro system. It will put out the same yield however in a shorter plant in a quicker amount of time. I do not live in a climate that makes out door grows possible but an atomix in a greenhouse with intense sunlight would really be interesting. I am going to try 90 watts of Halide/HPS per square foot for a few 9 square foot indoor grows with CO2 however just to see what happens.


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## OregonMeds (Jan 16, 2010)

Thank you

So you are toplighting sog bushes?

Also maybe you haven't looked into the laws in all the states but I'm pretty sure that here you are only barred from growing with a drug conviction within the last TWO years. There is a limit in some places to the time span and it varies for growing or having a dispensary. I am sure you'll be barred from owning a dispensary or working there but perhaps not growing at least not in all states. I'd move if I thought I needed to but I think I'm in a good place to take advantage of the laws as they change here. I didn't have a prior conviction myself but I read the laws many times.


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## fatman7574 (Jan 16, 2010)

In my state of residence a person becomes a care provider so as to grow pot for medical marijuana use. A person can only hold one permit to provide for one person. As for a record it states "has never been convicted of a felony offense under AS 11.71 or AS 11.73 or a law or ordinance of another jurisdiction with elements similar to an offense under AS 11.71 or AS 11.73 11.71 is controlled substances and 11.73 is imitation controlled substances. My conviction was a Second degree under 11.71 

State law does allow 24 plants per adult member of the a house hold and 4 ounces per adult member of that house hold. My state considers that an adult resident ahs the Constitutional right to possess marijuana in his/her own home for his/her own use.

I do not lolllipop but I take about half the side branches for clones. I take extra cuttings as I refrigerate the cuttings and do not root them for 4 weeks, so my cloning sucess rate is only about 40%. My budding rooms are only half harvested/planted at a time. My lights are water cooled and multiple fixture halide and HPS. I run one 250 watt light per very 4 square feet on my small systems and one 400 watt per every 6 square feet on the larger systems.


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## masterd (Jan 16, 2010)

scribed to hear more good shit from the OP.....

hopefully we dont have to put up with more shit from fatman..... you call oregan meds an arsehole? your the only one acting like a dick and getting childish bro. by the way good work on jacking a good thread....

oh and first of all you call DWC cheap.... and then a couple of posts later we get the words "I wonder what the markets next top of the line high dollar growing system will be in this country? "

i thought if it was cheap it must be ineffecient???


dont want an arguement... its just you dont mind pointing out other peoples flaws, so i thought you might like it or something?? or do you just like to call em an arsehole and get really childish??

peace!


sorry i really couldnt help myself.... your really acting like a tool to anyone who doesnt agree with you....


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## fatman7574 (Jan 16, 2010)

bas turd, oops I mean ass turd, oops again mass turd isn't it. What ever it matters no more than you matter. 

And nothing you just wrote even makes sense. 

Must have lost something in the translation to American English. Arsehole that's one of those overly punked boys expressions right. Are your finger nails painted pink or black? Rhinestones or just glitter? 

Just for your simple mind I will explain it to you. A cheaped down system is, for an example, when you take a large chamber aero system with intermittent misting nozzles as used in the commercial industry and turn it into a cheaped down 3" or 4" tube system with rotting roots laying in stagnant water in the bottom of the tubes wetted with a low pressure high volume pump running through trickling and spattering high volume sprinkler heads and call it an aero tube grow. Or take a lake or pond aquaculture system and turn it into a rubber maid tub with dank low DO water and call it a DWC system. Now do you understand cheaped down systems, Mass droppings.

Don't think I will ever get that name right.


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## smppro (Jan 16, 2010)

CROPALOTAPOT said:


> OK! FATMAN and negative FATMEN of the community... LARGE COMMERCIAL GRADE AIR PUMPS MUST BE USED for proper dwc growth (and many of them)... Only then when you can afford all these expensive air pumps and oxygen generators can DWC be as amazing for you all as it is for me. You see, small closet little jimmy rigged dwc setups with tiny air pumps may not be the greatest. But thats like being a Hydro racists or something... Have you not cared to try larger air pumps? order in oxygen diffusers instead of lame little Pet store air stones that break?
> 
> Or better yet, research KFB buckets a little and you will find that they CANNOT be run without first spending 1,000 to 5,000 depending on setup size on COMMERCIAL GRADE AIR PUMPS!.. why you may ask? because the KFB bucket must be aerated so much that the nutrient froth rises up into the bucket... Cutting the need for water chiller units and allowing for much much larger plants to be grown than in Aero..
> 
> ...


Uh oh, why are you showing a ebb n flo system that I GUESS IS YOUR, but then you show off your big colas with 1 of _*RUMPLEFORSKINs*_ pics from _*grasscity*_ which he produced with REGULAR AIR PUMPS.

Can you explain that?

here is a link to the exact picture, rumple has a great DIY for bubblers.
http://forum.grasscity.com/advanced-grow-journals/379836-rumples-collage-harvests-bud-shots.html


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## fatman7574 (Jan 16, 2010)

Sow's ear is still a sow's ear. A KFB is still just a jacked up sows ear no more. DWC is a poor system. Fact, no debate needed. Not saying it will not grow pot. I have seen Pot growing in a Nevada desert prison yard fed by spit, urine, human feces and starling poop. 


Size does not impress me. Fast, cheaply, easily produced, consistent hugh volumes of buds impress me. Big ones just get cut into small ones. Nobody ever sees them so why try to produce them at a loss in profit. I would much rather have 5 pounds of 3 gram buds that two 2 one pound buds. Especially when it takes longer to grow the larger buds.

Find me a system that can out produce a sealed, hot room, CO2 supplemented air atomized, drain to waste, warm water nutrient, SOG grow for less money and then you have something. Until then it is just you and other people talking about the many lame ass-ed unnaturally high DO dependent systems that are all prone to massive problems that have higher production cost and higher failure rates. The only advantage to them is that they are typically cheap to set up initially. Some don't even meet that criteria.

Don't believe there was any mention of ebb and flow. I actually like inert media hydro such as ebb and flow. Photos are not really impressive, probably a 20 week grow on top of it all. Hobby grow. Oh that's right nearly all of you are hobby growers. I keep forgetting that. I produce more in the same space quicker and cheaper than the system shown. Hell he even staes that the photos are not from one grow but from many d grows over a period of years. Not impressed. Not the way I would spend money. Air pumps fail your plants would be dead within a few hours. I simply use a pressure tank holding 12 hours of air. That gives me 12 hours to see a problem and fix it. My plants get watered for 24 hours without power without the need for artifically high DO water. High pressure aero systems can also easily and cheaply be set up with many hours of water availability without a pump. They also are not dependent on artificially high DO water.

With that I leave you to your hobby ways. I am done with this thread.


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## Drgdogg (Jan 16, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> With that I leave you to your hobby ways. I am done with this thread.


Good I'm glad you done! Now leave us DWC dreamers dream about electrolysed water...

Hey guys now that fatman is done bragging about his high pressure aero system lets bring the thread back to the subject.


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## masterd (Jan 16, 2010)

fatman7574 said:


> bas turd, oops I mean ass turd, oops again mass turd isn't it. What ever it matters no more than you matter.
> 
> And nothing you just wrote even makes sense.
> 
> ...


 

lmao.... i knew you wouldnt be able to get over urself.... i really hope you can leave this thread.... if you find it hard... just click on that unsubscribe button... if u dont push it soon... i will.... 

oh and its not my fault ur to dumb to know true english.... you know where ur barstadised language originated???? anyway, i think the OP should maybe start a new thread and hopefully fat man wont come around bashing.... anyway cunt face i mean cunt man... i mean fat man.... you have a good day


dude if ever need more income you might wanna take theese little rants and do them on stage... i think ur funny as hell... im sure others will 2..


oh and "ass" is the punk "amero" word bro... not "arse"


you can shit on any system you want bro.... im pretty sure no-one listens to you scince you just get on others threads and bash... 


but hey... who cares...




EDIT: just read the bit saying my post didnt make sense.... lmao... you must be dumb as fuck.... really theres nothing confusing in that....


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## smppro (Jan 27, 2010)

So this guy was a poser after all, and i can assure you that low pressure aeroponics works just fine for marijuana, ive found most deficiency are from the grower not the system, you provide the plants with air moisture and nutrients how is it the systems fault?


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## GreenThumbSucker (Jan 27, 2010)

masterd said:


> you can shit on any system you want bro.... im pretty sure no-one listens to you scince you just get on others threads and bash...


Actually I have probably gleaned more usable information from Fatman in the last six months than from everyone else combined. I just choose to ignore the drama and personality clashes.

Having said that I am intrigued by the krusty buckets mentioned by the OP.

Some pics of same I have come across:














Only 'problem' I see with this type of system is absurdly large plant size.


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## OregonMeds (Jan 27, 2010)

You take the good with the bad, he's old like me and we have a right to be grumpy cause we're fucking old. 

Man knows his shit, no doubt.


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## dwceazy (Jul 3, 2017)

CROPALOTAPOT said:


> I thought I would start this thread to gain and share interesting and in depth technical growing tips and tricks with everyone.
> 
> I will start this off with oxygen in your water, obviously super important for healthy plant growth. Many dwc operations fail or do not achieve what can be yielded due to a lack of air brought to the water. Oxygen generators are being used in agriculture today to increase DO levels in water majorly. I have ordered an Oxy-Gen system that converts the hydrogen molecule in water into oxygen. If that didn't blow your mind how about Sulpher Plasma Lighting. It is the closest spectrum man has come to the sun so far and looks just like something from star trek!.
> 
> ...


hey ive been looking into this electrolysis first wont it be cheaper to build 1 as good as the o2 emmiter and second will this kill any microbes or bennies used and surely metal in the water will bring huge ph fluctuations i really want to try it its easy enough to make


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## Dumme (Jul 3, 2017)

dwceazy said:


> hey ive been looking into this electrolysis first wont it be cheaper to build 1 as good as the o2 emmiter and second will this kill any microbes or bennies used and surely metal in the water will bring huge ph fluctuations i really want to try it its easy enough to make


This is a 7 year old thread. Id be looking into newer technology..


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## KingTutOg (Jul 5, 2017)

fatman7574 said:


> bas turd, oops I mean ass turd, oops again mass turd isn't it. What ever it matters no more than you matter.
> 
> And nothing you just wrote even makes sense.
> 
> ...


With bashing like that you must be a conformist facist. Finger nails pink or black? Seems like you are the one that is simple minded.


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## KingTutOg (Jul 5, 2017)

fatman7574 said:


> Let be put it in plain english. Your an *ss hole and I owe you nothing dinkus. Your being a medical marijuana user matters not to me. I am not growing for any reason really but monetary gain. I do not give to or support Norml and could care less about the leago ization of marijuana. It is a drug. I ma content with it being controlled as a dri ug. I am willing to do the time for any crime for which I am convicted. I grow beacuse I choose to grow, not for anyones need or to be an activist. I do not post to this site out of a feeling of activism.
> 
> If you want to read the thread already posted in this forum and then care to ask questions you would probably get more favorable results then trying to force me in some way to satisfy your requests. Trying to pretend that I owe you or anyone the benefits of my experience, research, work or education just because I stated a few simple facts that you do not wish to believe is not my problem fool. When you choose to actually contribute something maybe I might be willing to care what you want or need. As of now you just appear to be a lazy know it little who wants others to give you something because you are acting like an ass and therefore deserve something to shut you up. That might work with your case worker or your wife but I could care less if you throw tantrums, whine, attempt to manipulate or play games like a child. Plenty of material out there dinkus, as you are to much an *ss to be given information I recomend you use your search engine.


Cannabis a drug? You do not care about medical patients? You only care about monitory gain from cannabis? You are a real pice of shit aren't you. I am glad you spent time for manufacturing cannabis, I hope you get brain cancer and die.


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## Dumme (Jul 5, 2017)

KingTutOg said:


> Cannabis a drug? You do not care about medical patients? You only care about monitory gain from cannabis? You are a real pice of shit aren't you. I am glad you spent time for manufacturing cannabis, I hope you get brain cancer and die.


Hey man, fatman7574 hasn't been seen on this forum since 2010; seven years ago. Let the thread die in peace..


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## KingTutOg (Jul 6, 2017)

Dumme said:


> Hey man, fatman7574 hasn't been seen on this forum since 2010; seven years ago. Let the thread die in peace..


Maybe he got what he deserved for posting crap like that You only have so long acting like he was before karma catches up with you


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## dwceazy (Jul 7, 2017)

GreenThumbSucker said:


> Actually I have probably gleaned more usable information from Fatman in the last six months than from everyone else combined. I just choose to ignore the drama and personality clashes.
> 
> Having said that I am intrigued by the krusty buckets mentioned by the OP.
> 
> ...


ive been looking at this aswell do you no if you can use organic nutes this way as you dont need the air pump also kratky seems low maintenance just wanna know if they can go organic


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## Lyndon Smith (Oct 8, 2017)

Redeflect said:


> That isn't too smart... you're using electrolysis to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. To begin, 95% of cathodes and anodes slowly leech into the water. That gets metals into your water, some of which can cause deficiencies. Secondly, water has a VERY HIGH resistance to electric current... you need acids or salts in the water to facilitate the electrolosis (both of which are no good for the plants in large amounts). Thirdly, you have nutrients in that water... many of those nutrients will break down into harmful things like ammonia along with the hydrogen and oxygen.
> 
> If you really want to use electrolysis to give oxygen to your plant, electrolize different water and capture the oxygen... then pump it through your nutrient solution. You can then re-collect it and pump it through again repeatedly.




Your a f***ing idiot it will not break down your nutes most nutes have salts anyway and as long as the metal is coated in gold silver platinum or rhyodium it will take years to break down 2 no nutes for growing pot have any precursors to amonia so stfu and 3 yes there is maintenance involved but that's common with hydro lmao I bet you don't even know what salt rinse is used for so before you go talking out your a** do some research.... and to the guy asking the question yes electrolysis is a good way to prevent root rot oxygenate your plants and consume less power try 02 grow if you got the money I talked to them and they gave me the facts and defiantly stand behind their product don't listen to trolls... btw Fat man they know about the shit you've been talking and they even told me you had no clue about what you talking about... to everyone else trust me you will be satisfied with the product if not they will give you a refund


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## Lyndon Smith (Oct 8, 2017)

dwceazy said:


> ive been looking at this aswell do you no if you can use organic nutes this way as you dont need the air pump also kratky seems low maintenance just wanna know if they can go organic




Don't use organic teas or nute it will clog it just like regular dwc


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## DrGhard (Oct 10, 2017)

interesting idea but a waste of electricity. you won't gain more oxygen than with good quality air pumps and stones. there is a limit of dissolved oxygen in water, and breaking down water into oxygen won't increase it. 

also electrolysis can generate OH- radicals wich are detrimental at high concentrations, and can displace micronutrients of metallic ions (iron zinc and manganese for instance)


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## Dumme (Nov 10, 2017)

Jesus guys, This thread has been dead for a best half of a decade. Seriously, it's time to move on..


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## Lyndon Smith (Sep 1, 2018)

Redeflect said:


> If i think its bad I'll explain why its bad as i did... would you prefer me to say "this thing is no good" and leave it at that? You're foolish KushRx if you think this thread is only going to get positive info. You get the ups and downs... thats the reality of learning. So stop criticizing those who criticize and learn to pay attention to all the information given to you.
> 
> I never said it wouldn't work... I said it requires salts in the water and can leech metals into the water and can release poisonous gases... make your own decision.


Chances of anything bad happening are very slim but also don’t say you know something if you haven’t ran it first hand makes you sound like a kid


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## Lyndon Smith (Sep 1, 2018)

DrGhard said:


> interesting idea but a waste of electricity. you won't gain more oxygen than with good quality air pumps and stones. there is a limit of dissolved oxygen in water, and breaking down water into oxygen won't increase it.
> 
> also electrolysis can generate OH- radicals wich are detrimental at high concentrations, and can displace micronutrients of metallic ions (iron zinc and manganese for instance)


Actually it’s one of very few ways you can


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