# cost to set up a vert. room



## clayman187 (Jan 28, 2013)

I have been reading about this vert grow here and on the web and man it looks like something I want to check into. Im just not to sure of the start up cost for a soil grow.
I have a 3x2x8 closet space that I currently use as a flowering room with cfl's. The cfl's have done a decent job but I want more lol
Any advice, ideas, ect would be great


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## angel4us (Jan 29, 2013)

dude check out my vertical scrog setup . plain and simple. 1 fan 1 light 2lbs -5 plants - if you veg to long or u get alot of stretch ad another bulb and settle for 3 lbs!!!!!!! once u get used to the increased yeilds of vertical you'll be fine!!!! yield is pretty much directly proportional to amount of light you give -assuming perfect enviromental control.. 150 watt maybe 4 ounces .....400 maybe 10 ounces ....600 -maybe16 ounces 1000 watter 20 ounces -if dialed in strain 32 ounces..........peace
View attachment 2502159


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## clayman187 (Jan 29, 2013)

WOW sounds nice...ok how about this ... Do you run the whole veg cycle with the vert? wouldnt that cause stretch? Do you lst? top? fim? just during veg? or how long into flower cycle do you lst,top,fim?
I did my 1st cfl grow ended up with 2 plants..wet weight was right about 2 oz...still in the drying stage so im guessing atleast 1 1/4 oz. not to bad for a newb! lol (all bag seed at that)
Ive got a few bucks so Im trying to figure exactly how to set this vert grow up!

Thanks again for the imput


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## OGEvilgenius (Jan 29, 2013)

It's pretty cheap if you do vert scrogging. Generally speaking you will know what strains do best under vert. It isn't the same as under horizontal. His numbers are conservative. Many folks hit or approach 1gpw of light. I landed a little under 2.5lbs under my 2 600's last go and it was so far from perfect in many ways. 

If you grow under vertical lighting definitely better to veg under vertical bulbs, but certainly not necessary. Plants with a lot of apical dominance are not as good for vertical growing. You want branchy plants that put out buds everywhere. You will know what I mean as you progress and see how the plants grow. Every plant is different so I think it's wise to experiment some. Some will do fine with topping, but the ideal plant from what I've grown seems to do better without.


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## angel4us (Jan 30, 2013)

as OGEvilgenius said its mostly strian dependant BUT i can say this.....as with horizontal scrogging-which is the only way to go with horizontal bulb presentationIMO....its a matter of canopy management /manipulaton/elimination.....and with vert or horizontal scrog the beauty is basically all work is done during veg and by training and mainlineing the humndreds of budsites exposed at equal distance from bulb will be maintained and when buds are falling in every other garden and their gardeners are scrambling to keep from burning buds and tying up and staking and getting valuable trichromes all over their arms...... the scrogger grower will be sitting back simply adding water and watch for lower leaves to maybe yellow/brown up towards harvest....


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## angel4us (Jan 30, 2013)

oops sorry your first question ....these were vegged under t5 till about 5 or 6 branching-when they showed sex preflowers and then at ....about 18 inches were trained and chopped into a bamboo trellis 3 foot above 5 gallon net pots ....when they were 3/4 way up they were flipped 12/12 ........these were from seeds (f1 hybryid of bogs ssk or sour bubble with my gear) SO the strech actually pushed my cylinder of light past coverage of growth so rather than strip any i chose to add a candlestick 600 on fan and ended up with my lowest branches all pushing ounce bombs /grenade size nuggets - only popcorn is on backside and its rock a\hard too!


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## clayman187 (Jan 30, 2013)

Nice! Well I have 6 plants in 12/12 now for about 2 weeks and I have 6 more in veg. If all goes well I will try to vert gown my vegging plants. But right now its all about time and money.

I really want to thank you guys! You really put vert growing into perspective!


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## jbud123 (Jan 31, 2013)

angel4us said:


> dude check out my vertical scrog setup . plain and simple. 1 fan 1 light 2lbs -5 plants - if you veg to long or u get alot of stretch ad another bulb and settle for 3 lbs!!!!!!! once u get used to the increased yeilds of vertical you'll be fine!!!! yield is pretty much directly proportional to amount of light you give -assuming perfect enviromental control.. 150 watt maybe 4 ounces .....400 maybe 10 ounces ....600 -maybe16 ounces 1000 watter 20 ounces -if dialed in strain 32 ounces..........peace
> View attachment 2502159View attachment 2502161View attachment 2502162View attachment 2502163


dude nice f***!NG grow deff wanna try this. if i try this next grow would u give me advice!? prolly best grow ive seen. what strains?


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## BadAim (Feb 20, 2013)

_I wanna start a vert Scrog too in a 4X4 Mylar with a 600w bulb I'm in Sacramento Ca do you think ill need A/C or will the 90 degree up facing honeywell fan will be enough to keep it cool? _


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## Bleedgreen (Apr 17, 2013)

Hey everyone, first time posting here. This thread's a bit old but I've been tooling around and thought i'd post a few things that I didn't see mentioned. 

About using vert bulbs to veg... this is one of those things that is going to be a matter of preference. In my opinion it's easier to veg horizontal start some lst then like 5 days before the switch hang a t5 sideways against the wall to start the plant moving in the right direction... You don't really want them to start stretching out to much towards a vert light yet because they're going to do that during the stretch period if you have a plant that doesnt stretch much you might need to veg a bit longer to get the budsites close enough to the light. 

Another thing i don't really see mentioned is that the best setup is having your exhaust ducts up at the top of the grow but directly above the lights, plus the little fan on the ground that you're going to use should be on low speed! that's actually an important thing people seem to have a hard time understanding because it's natural to want to push the air up fast... if it's to fast then it will spread all over the top of your grow and be harder to exhaust. 

with these vertical grows you really don't want much side air movement at all ... it's different then if you have an air cooled hood doing horizontal, you don't want to spread the heat in the plants... if you do it right you don't need a cooltube setup at all.


like any grow if you aren't sealed the ambient temps of the intake is going to dictate your grow room's temps... if things are dialed in the cost for a vert grow should be lower with no hoods.


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## Prawn Connery (Apr 17, 2013)

I agree with most of those points. I veg horizontally because I'm in no hurry to grow my plants - I have 8-10 weeks to clone and veg before putting each new plant into flower - and also because it saves a bit of height (which I don't really have in my veg/clone chamber). Also, it's easy to promote a bit of stretch by simply raising the lights. A bit of stretch can be a good thing in a vertical grow.

On the subject of cooling, I have an extractor fan hanging directly over my bulbs, with a floor fan blowing directly up. This is the best set-up, IMO.

Where I disagree, slightly, is in the use of the floor fan. I have mine blowing fairly hard, because the floor fan does two things: it ducts heat away from the bulbs, but it also blows through the plants to help strengthen the stems/branches and prevent mold. As long as you have a good extraction fan, you don't have to worry about hot air blowing all over the place: because the air is being continuously circulated, with cool air being drawn in and warmer air being sucked out.

The faster you suck out the warm air, the less time it has to heat up inside the grow chamber, so it really doesn't make much difference whether your floor fan is set to low or high - it is the ceiling fan that is extracting the heat. The floor fan merely ducts heat away from the bulbs to allow the plants to grow close without burning. Once the heat is ducted away from the bulbs, it dissipates within the grow chamber.

You do want a certain amount of warmth within your grow chamber, because plants respond to warmth and grow quicker than when it is cold.


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## Prawn Connery (Apr 17, 2013)

BadAim said:


> _I wanna start a vert Scrog too in a 4X4 Mylar with a 600w bulb I'm in Sacramento Ca do you think ill need A/C or will the 90 degree up facing honeywell fan will be enough to keep it cool? _


I grow in a 4'x4'x6' cabinet with 1200w throughout our Australian summers (40C+ - 105F+) - which is a challenge, but it can be done without AC. Just make sure you have lots of ventilation, as that will prevent heat build-up (as mentioned in the post above).

I wouldn't recommend running hydro in that sort of heat, though, as you may have a lot of problems with your reservoir warming up and oxygen falling out of solution (nutrient solution temps over 25-28C - 77-82F - are not recommended for recirculating or DWC hydro set-ups, as oxygen does not dissolve as readily in warm water and you may end up with problems with anaerobic bacteria, such as pythium root rot).

Grow in coco or soil if you want to tackle higher temperature grows, as these provide good insulation and buffer properties. Coco, especially, provides good aeration for your plants' roots.

One thing you will notice is that when it is really hot, your plants will tend to stretch a little more and will take longer to finish flowering. Your buds will tend to be a bit airier as well. This is a natural reaction to heat.


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## kinddiesel (Apr 17, 2013)

my advice. get greedy stay legal , set up the entire house to grow, the up stairs to veg down stairs to flower, example, in 3 months youll be thankfull,


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## Bleedgreen (Apr 18, 2013)

lol wish i could "stay legal" and do all of that. I grow for my wife and I because we are "legal" med users but it's hardly even legal the law pretty much just gives us a defense against prosecution after getting arrested. I grow in a 4 foot crawl space that's locked down and pretty stealth even though we're supposed to be legal.


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## Bleedgreen (Apr 18, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> I agree with most of those points. I veg horizontally because I'm in no hurry to grow my plants - I have 8-10 weeks to clone and veg before putting each new plant into flower - and also because it saves a bit of height (which I don't really have in my veg/clone chamber). Also, it's easy to promote a bit of stretch by simply raising the lights. A bit of stretch can be a good thing in a vertical grow.
> 
> On the subject of cooling, I have an extractor fan hanging directly over my bulbs, with a floor fan blowing directly up. This is the best set-up, IMO.
> 
> ...


Hey try running your little fan below your exhaust on the lowest setting and i guarantee it will lower your room temps. Heat naturally rises you want to make a invisible cool tube of air not a tornado if that makes sense, the whole idea is to direct the air flow where you want it to go... if the fans to high you lose control and it goes everywhere. 

Sounds like you're an awesome grower and all just something i've learned along the way... I'd hate to grow in those temps but in that sort of climate i could grow some outside sativas.


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## Prawn Connery (Apr 18, 2013)

Wish I could grow outside, but unfortunately I'm urban.

I see your point, and agree that yes the floor fan does form a cooler column of air around the bulbs. But when you grow in a confined space, generall the only way for heat to escape is through ventilation. You don't lose much heat through the walls of your cabinet or grow chamber. So while the floor fan ducts heat directly away from the bulbs, the heat is still present in the grow space until it is exhausted. That's why your floor fan setting doesn't make a lot of difference to temperatures inside. If you want to really lower temps inside your grow space, you need to shift more air - cool air in, warm air out - and that's done with ventilation. Placing an exhaust fan directly over the bulbs will also get rid of heat as it is generated.

Now don't get me wrong - you don't want your fan blowing a gale in there with your bulbs swinging around! But you still want enough fan activity to ruffle your plants' leaves to prevent mold. This is especially important when you have a dense grow and need air movement on the dark side of the plants, as well as the light side (around the fan and bulbs). If the floor fan creates too much of a tunnel effect, the dark sides of the plants get little or no wind and become susceptible to powdery mildew. You need to find a balance between heat-ducting and air-movement.

I usually have my 30cm floor fan on the middle setting. Larger fans on lower settings will work better than smaller fans on higher settings, in my experience, but you're right - you don't want any floor fan blowing too hard.


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## Bleedgreen (Apr 18, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> Wish I could grow outside, but unfortunately I'm urban.
> 
> I see your point, and agree that yes the floor fan does form a cooler column of air around the bulbs. But when you grow in a confined space, generall the only way for heat to escape is through ventilation. You don't lose much heat through the walls of your cabinet or grow chamber. So while the floor fan ducts heat directly away from the bulbs, the heat is still present in the grow space until it is exhausted. That's why your floor fan setting doesn't make a lot of difference to temperatures inside. If you want to really lower temps inside your grow space, you need to shift more air - cool air in, warm air out - and that's done with ventilation. Placing an exhaust fan directly over the bulbs will also get rid of heat as it is generated.
> 
> ...


Yeah, i get what you're saying, we're pretty much saying to do the same thing. I do respect you're style and I'm sure that you have things dialed in for your situation. It is best to have your exhaust right above the light like you do in the room.

I'm just saying that the heat generated from your bulb will be exhausted more efficiently if you use a low setting of the fan on the ground, Just so a new guy doesn't start up with a high output fan on the ground cranked up full blast, cause that would actually cause more heat... I know it's hard to believe but it's true. If the air's blowing to hard it will shoot past your exhaust and get circulated around the room before it gets exhausted... Plus you're going to cause more evaporation which will cause more humidity which in turn will cause more heat lol. 

the intake is key here if your intake's ambient temps are high then your rooms temps will be high, still want to get rid of that bulb heat quick as possible. the intake coming into your room will go through your plants and cool the bulb not the air that's been heated from the bulb and circulated around in the room.

I'm sure you got things dialed in, at first i had a 4 inch low output can fan pointing up at my lights but it was to much... the plants stems will be strong enough with just having the intake and exhaust running in the room the little fan on the ground is only for boosting the evacuation of heat from bulb. 

I started doing vert the wrong way and was just passing on my personal experiences. I'm sure everyone's mileage will vary.


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## Prawn Connery (Apr 18, 2013)

My intake is directly below the floor fan - it's a hole in the floor (the cabinet is raised above the ground to allow air circulation underneath and for my run-to-waste drainage pipes to exit). This also helps with the "column of cool air" or "cooltube" effect, as the fan helps pull fresh air in from the bottom, then blows it over the bulbs where the exhaust fan pulls the warm air out. It works well. Here's a half-empty flowering chamber shot to give you an idea.


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## Bleedgreen (Apr 19, 2013)

nice, sounds like a good setup. Vert is the way to go for sure.


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## cassinfo (Apr 20, 2013)

SWIM Produce 1 lbs 6 girls 1 600 watter ( Humboldt Seed Organisation Blue Dream ). Rotate the girls every 3 days. No scrog just straight up grow in 3 gallon pots pre sprayed with griffin spin out. The girls were close to 3 foot.


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## Prawn Connery (Apr 23, 2013)

One of the great myths of vertical growing is that you need to rotate the plants to get light "on all sides". You don't - the plants will grow naturally towards the light and will thicken up on the light side.

Remember, in nature the sun is very rarely directly overhead - it travels east to west on the southern horizon (if you live in the northern hemisphere), or northern horizon (southern hemisphere). That means one side of the plant (the southern or northern side) gets very little or no light at all, as it is shaded by the rest of the plant.

The same principle applies to vertical growing: the plant will grow where the light is.

Trust me - been there, done that. Turning plants is a PIA and has absolutely no benefit at all. In fact, it simply gives you a greater amount of smaller, less-dense buds, as each bud site gets one or two days of light, and then one or two days of shade - never getting the full potential of constant 12/12 photosynthesis.

You don't need to scrog - that's true, especially with columnar strains, such as indicas - but a vertical scrog can help maximise light and yields for branchier varieties. If scrogging didn't work, no-one would do it - not horizontal growers, and not vertical growers.

1lb per 600w is what every novice grower should be aiming for - more experienced and serious commercial growers yield much higher than that.


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