# Barney's Farm Blue Cheese Almost Ready



## hemphopper (Sep 10, 2009)

This grow has been in flower for almost 50 days. I need patience reinforcement because they are almost ready - trichs are milky and some are amber. Pics could be better but i ain't a photographer. Soil grow, T5's and CFLs

H


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## Brick Top (Sep 10, 2009)

If you have milky and partially amber trichs you have already hit peak THC levels so now it is just a case of do you want more couchlock or not?


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## jact55 (Sep 10, 2009)

right on man, i just chopped mine a couple weeks ago. how'd they smell?

i had one that smelled just like musty/cheesy blueberry and the other like grapefruit. 
7 weeks is pretty fast for the blue cheese.i cut mine at 9 weeks. i am not saying to go that long, just relating my experience.

good job on the plant


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## aknight3 (Sep 10, 2009)

they look nice but are not ready, wait at least a week


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## chad851 (Sep 10, 2009)

whats blue cheese like cos i have some grade that is off the hook but dont know what it is and it smells like grapefruit and kills your chest and gets u f ucked someone said it might be blue cheese


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## Brick Top (Sep 10, 2009)

aknight3 said:


> they look nice but are not ready, wait at least a week


 

That is an opinion, not a fact. Once the trichome color has turned milky white/cloudy the level of THC has reached its peak. 

Waiting any longer only changes the effects of the smoke from more of a head high to more of a body stone. 

If you wait until a fully amber color the THC has begun to oxidize and you have lost THC replacing it with CBN. CBN makes you feel messed up and confused and some people wrongly confuse that with a higher level of THC but it is a lower level of THC and an increased level of CBN. 
&#12288;
So his plants have already maxed out on THC production and that means the only reason to wait any longer would be if his own personal preference is for as much body stone as he could get, or that messed up CBN effect.


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## mysticcobe (Sep 10, 2009)

Brick Top said:


> That is an opinion, not a fact. Once the trichome color has turned milky white/cloudy the level of THC has reached its peak.
> 
> Waiting any longer only changes the effects of the smoke from more of a head high to more of a body stone.
> 
> ...


wow thats amazing i never knew that!! what does cbn stand for??


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## Brick Top (Sep 10, 2009)

mysticcobe said:


> wow thats amazing i never knew that!! what does cbn stand for??


 
Here is the answer .... and more. What you asked for can be found in *red.*



*Marijuana*

*Cannabinoids (THC, CBD, CBN...)*



*The Active Ingredients Of Cannabis*

Cannabis products include marijuana, hashish, and hashish oil.

*THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol)* gets a user high, a larger THC content will produce a stronger high. Without THC you don't get high.

*CBD (Cannabidiol)* increases some of the effects of THC and decreases other effects of THC. High levels of THC and low levels of CBD contribute to a strong, clear headed, more energetic high. 

Cannabis that has a high level of both THC and CBD will produce a strong head-stone that feels almost dreamlike. Cannabis that has low levels of THC and high levels of CBD produces more of a stoned feeling. The mind feels dull and the body feels tired.

*CBN (Cannabinol) is produced as THC ages and breaks down, this process is known as oxidization. High levels of CBN tend to make the user feel messed up rather than high. *
*CBN levels can be kept to a minimum by storing cannabis products in a dark, cool, airtight environment. Marijuana should be dry prior to storage, and may have to be dried again after being stored somewhere that is humid.*

*THCV (Tetrahydrocannabivarin)* is found primarily in strains of African and Asian cannabis. THCV increases the speed and intensity of THC effects, but also causes the high to end sooner. Weed that smells strong (prior to smoking) might indicate a high level of THCV.

*CBC (Cannabichromene)* is probably not psychoactive in pure form but is thought to interact with THC to enhance the high.

*CBL (Cannabicyclol)* is a degradative product like CBN. Light converts CBC to CBL. 

If you are a grower, you can experiment with different strains of cannabis to produce the various qualities you seek. 

A medical user looking for something with sleep inducing properties might want to produce a crop that has high levels of CBD.

Another user looking for a more energetic high will want to grow a strain that has high levels of THC and low levels of CBD. In general, Cannabis sativa has lower levels of CBD and higher levels of THC. Cannabis indica has higher amounts of CBD and lower amounts of THC than sativa. See marijuana strains. 


*For a more scientific description*, see below for an excerpt from marijuana growers guide by Mel Frank.

Cannabis is unique in many ways. Of all plants, it is the only genus known to produce chemical substances known as herbal cannabinoids. 

These cannabinoids are the psychoactive ingredients of marijuana; they are what get you high, buzzed, or stoned. By 1974, there were 37 naturally occurring cannabinoids that had been discovered. 

There are 3 types of cannabinoids: 
--- Herbal: occur naturally only in the cannabis plant 
--- Endogenous: occur naturally in humans and other animals 
--- Synthetic: cannabinoids produced in a lab 

Most of the cannabinoids appear in very small amounts (less than .01 percent of total cannabinoids) and are not considered psychoactive, or else not important to the high. 

Many are simply homologues or analogues (similar structure or function) to the few major cannabinoids which are listed. 

There are several numbering systems used for cannabinoids. The system used here is based on formal chemical rules for numbering pyran compounds (any of a class of organic compounds of the heterocyclic series in which five carbon atoms and one oxygen atom are present in a ring structure). 

Another common system is used more by Europeans and is based on a monoterpenoid system which is more useful considering the biogenesis of the compound. 


*Tetrahydrocannabinol - THC*

Delta 9-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol - delta-9 THC is the main psychotomimetic (mindbending) ingredient of marijuana. Estimates state that 70 to 100 percent of the marijuana high results from the delta-9 THC present. It occurs in almost all cannabis in concentrations that vary from traces to about 95 percent of all the cannabinoids in the sample. 
In very potent strains, carefully prepared marijuana can be 30 percent delta-9 THC by dry weight (seeds and stems removed from flowering buds). Buds are the popular name given to masses of female flowers that form distinct clusters. 

Delta 8-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol - delta-8 THC is reported in low concentration, less than one percent of the delta-9 THC present. Its activity is slightly less than that of delta-9 THC. It may be an artefact of the extraction/analysis process. Almost everyone who uses the term THC, refers to delta-9 THC and delta-8 THC combined, as THC. 


*Cannabidiol - CBD*

Cannabidiol - CBD also occurs in almost all strains. Concentration range from none, to about 95 percent of the total cannabinoids present. THC and CBD are the two most abundant naturally occurring cannabinoids. CBD is not psychotomimetic in the pure form, although it does have sedative, analgesic, and antibiotic properties. 
In order for CBD to affect the high, THC must be present in quantities ordinarily psychoactive. CBD can contribute to the high by interacting with THC to potentiate (enhance) or antagonize (interfere or lessen) certain qualities of the high.

CBD appears to potentiate the depressant effects of THC and antagonize is excitatory effects. CBD also delays the onset of the high but can make it last considerably longer (as much as twice as long). The kind of grass that takes a while to come on but keeps coming on.

Opinions are conflicting as to whether it increases or decreases the intensity of the high, intensity and high being difficult to define. Terms such as knock-out or sleepy, dreamlike, or melancholic are often used to describe the high from grass with sizeable proportions of CBD and THC.

When only small amounts of THC are present with high proportions of CBD, the high is more of a buzz, and the mind feels dull and the body de-energized. 


*Cannabinol - CBN*

*Cannabinol - CBN is not produced by the plant per se. It is the degradation (oxidative) product of THC. *

*Fresh samples of marijuana contain very little CBN but curing, poor storage, or processing such as when making hashish, can cause much of the THC to be oxidized to CBN. *

*Pure forms of CBN have at most 10 percent of the psychoactivity of THC. *

*Like CBD, it is suspected of potentiating certain aspects of the high, although so far these effects appear to be slight. *

*CBN seems to potentiate THC's disorienting qualities. One may feel more dizzy or drugged or generally messed up but not necessarily higher. *

*In fact, with a high proportion of CBN, the high may start well but feels as if it never quite reaches its peak, and when coming down one feels tired or sleepy. High CBN in homegrown grass is not desirable since it represents a loss of 90 percent of the psychoactivity of its precursor THC.* 


*Tetrahydrocannabivarin - THCV*

Tetrahydrocannabivarin - THCV or THV is the propyl homologue of THC. In the aromatic ring the usual five-carbon pentyl is replaced by a short three-carbon propyl chain. The propyl cannabinoids have so far been found in some strains originating from Southeast and Central Asia and parts of Africa.

In one study, THCV made up to 48.23 percent (Afghanistan strain) and 53.69 percent (South Africa) of the cannabinoids found. 

We've seen no reports on its activity in humans. From animal studies it appears to be much faster in onset and quicker to dissipate than THC. 

It may be the constituent of one or two toke grass, but its activity appears to be somewhat less than that of THC. Some people use the term THC to refer collectively to delta-9 THC, delta-8 THC, and THCV.

An interesting note is that people who have a prescription for Marinol (synthetic medical THC) may be tested for THCV. Marinol contains no THCV, if a person tests positive it means they have been using marijuana, or another cannabis product. 

This is usually sufficient grounds to terminate the prescription of a person who has signed a contract not to ingest any cannabis while taking Marinol. 


*Cannabichromene - CBC*

Cannabichromene - CBC is another major cannabinoid, although it is found in smaller concentrations than CBD and THC. It was previously believed that is was a minor constituent, but more exacting analysis showed that the compound often reported as CBD may actually be CBC.

Relative to THC and CBD, its concentration in the plants is low, probably not exceeding 20 percent of total cannabinoids. CBC is believed not to be psychotomimetic in humans; however, its presence in plants is purportedly very potent has led to the suspicion that it may be interacting with THC to enhance the high. 


*Cannabicyclol - CBL*

Cannabicyclol (CBL) is a degradative product like CBN. During extraction, light converts CBC to CBL. There are no reports on its activity in humans, and it is found in small amounts, if at all, in fresh plant material. 


*Cannabinoids And The High*

The marijuana high is a complex experience. It involves a wide range of psychical, physical, and emotional responses. The high is a subjective experience based in the individual and one's personality, mood, disposition, and experience with the drug. 

Given the person, the intensity of the high depends primarily on the amount of THC present in the marijuana. Delta-9 THC is the main ingredient of marijuana and must be present in sufficient quantities for a good marijuana high. 
People who smoke grass that has very little cannabinoids other than delta-9 THC usually report that the high is very intense. 

Most people that don't smoke daily will feel something from a joint having delta-9 THC of 3 percent concentration to material.

*Cannabis products having* a THC concentration of 5-10 percent would be considered good, 10-25 percent would be considered very good, and over 25 percent would be excellent quality by daily users standards. In general, we use potency to mean the sum effects of the cannabinoids and the overall high induced. 

Marijuana is sometimes rated more potent than the content of delta-9 THC alone would suggest. It also elicits qualitatively different highs. 

The reasons for this have not been sorted out. Few clinical studies with known combinations of several cannabinoids have been undertaken with human subjects.

So far, different highs and possibly higher potency seem to be due to the interaction of delta-9 THC and other cannabinoids (THCV,CBD,CBN, and possibly CBC). Except for THCV, in the pure form, these other cannabinoids do not have much psychoactivity.

*Another possibility for* higher potency is that homologues of delta-9 THC with longer side chains at C-3 (and higher activity) might be found in certain marijuana strains.

Compounds with longer side chains have been made in laboratories and their activity is sometimes much higher, with estimates over 500 times that of natural delta-9 THC.

The possibility that there are non-cannabinoids that are psychoactive or interacting with the cannabinoids has not been investigated in detail. 

Non-cannabinoids with biological activity have been isolated from the plants, but only in very small quantities. 

*None are known* to be psychotomimetic. However, they may contribute to the overall experience in non-mental ways, such as the stimulation of the appetite.

Different blends of cannabinoids account for the different qualities of intoxication produced by different strains of cannabis. The intensity of the high depends primarily on the amount of delta-9 THC present and on the method of ingestion.

A complex drug such as marijuana affects the mind and body in many ways. Sorting out what accounts for what response can become quite complex.


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## hemphopper (Sep 10, 2009)

Thanks for the information. It takes a while to get used to the radio shack scope - did for me. Anyhow it's taken a while to trust my eyes in understanding how to see it and no let refractions from the room bright spots "color" the view.

I'm looking forward to a good dry and cure so any smoke report from me will be some weeks off. Smell is awesome - skunky fruity and dank!


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## aknight3 (Sep 11, 2009)

again, i dont go by charts, i dont go by trichomes, i go by the look of that plant, not only can it gain more yield but the potency of that plant has not reached its maximum, i can tell by looking at the low quality pics, why would you cut a plant down thats still growing and blooming, harvesting with milky trichomes is a opinion as well as mine is, just cause you have some charts to back it up doesnt make it any more fact. i dont know, when i smoke weed i like to get high 


try reading this hemp hopper https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/28072-harvest-time-tutorial.html


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## Brick Top (Sep 11, 2009)

aknight3 said:


> again, i dont go by charts, i dont go by trichomes, i go by the look of that plant, not only can it gain more yield but the potency of that plant has not reached its maximum, i can tell by looking at the low quality pics, why would you cut a plant down thats still growing and blooming, harvesting with milky trichomes is a opinion as well as mine is, just cause you have some charts to back it up doesnt make it any more fact. i dont know, when i smoke weed i like to get high
> 
> try reading this hemp hopper https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/28072-harvest-time-tutorial.html


 
It is a scientifically proven fact, not an opinion but instead a scientifically proven fact that when the trichome color reaches mostly amber to full amber the THC begins to oxidize and turn into CBN. 
&#12288;
It has been proven that allowing THC to turn into CBN represents a loss of 90 percent of the psychoactivity of its precursor THC.
&#12288;
That means if you harvest according to how plants look in general or overall and they do not take on that appearance until after the THC has begun to oxidize, a mostly amber to fully amber trichome color, then your final product will be considerably lower in levels of THC. 
&#12288;
That is as much of a fact as time, the tide and gravity and anyone who ignores that fact should really reconsider how they do things if they want the very best highest level THC final product that they can create with their growing setup/system.


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## aknight3 (Sep 11, 2009)

it starts to oxidize, that doent mean thc levels have degraded, they have just begun to turn into cbn and cbd, that is the peak time to harvest, cloudy trichomes mean thc is stil being pushed into the bulb, therefore by letting it go a little bit longer you ensure ALL thc has been pushed into the bulb and has fully formed. this is really all preference how you like to smoke your weed, i harvest when my trichomes are all diffrent colors some cloudy, some milky some amber, i look at the general look of the plant, hairs will recede, trichs will start to glisten/tinge, no new white hairs grow or if so only a few, seed brackets will swell and false pregnancy will ensue, that imo is maximum harvest time. and id bet that plant doesnt even have some amber trichs. if so very low %


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## Brick Top (Sep 11, 2009)

aknight3 said:


> it starts to oxidize, that doent mean thc levels have degraded, they have just begun to turn into cbn and cbd, that is the peak time to harvest, cloudy trichomes mean thc is stil being pushed into the bulb, therefore by letting it go a little bit longer you ensure ALL thc has been pushed into the bulb and has fully formed. this is really all preference how you like to smoke your weed, i harvest when my trichomes are all diffrent colors some cloudy, some milky some amber, i look at the general look of the plant, hairs will recede, trichs will start to glisten/tinge, no new white hairs grow or if so only a few, seed brackets will swell and false pregnancy will ensue, that imo is maximum harvest time. and id bet that plant doesnt even have some amber trichs. if so very low %


 
You are wrong. When one substance degrades that means it breaks down, it changes into something else other than what it had been so there is no longer an equal amount of that substance to what there previously had been. There is less.
&#12288;
For things to work the way you seem to believe they do the degradation process would actually create more of a different substance while at the same time retaining the full amount of the substance that is degrading. 
&#12288;
That is not how THC/CBN work/happen.
&#12288;
As I said; "It is a scientifically proven fact, not an opinion but instead a scientifically proven fact.."
&#12288;
It has been proven that allowing THC to turn into CBN represents a loss of 90 percent of the psychoactivity of its precursor THC.


Something else you said that was incorrect was; "cloudy trichomes mean thc is stil being pushed into the bulb." Unless I am mistaken what you meant as the bulb was the trichome head/the resin-head, correct?
&#12288;
If so then you could not possibly be more incorrect if you tried your very best. 
&#12288;
THC is not pushed into the trichome-heads/resin-heads. 

THC is created in the trichome-heads/resin-heads. 

THC does not exist anywhere else in the plant at any stage of growth other than in the trichome heads/resin-heads.


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## Jerry Garcia (Sep 11, 2009)

Looking real nice HH! I can't believe how much that last pic looks like the buds in the photo on attitude! Check it out!

Attitude bud shot:






Your buds:






Can't wait to see harvest pics and a smoke report!


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## liljheazy (Sep 11, 2009)

it does look alot like it, cant wait to see the finish product


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## Brick Top (Sep 11, 2009)

Just in case anyone here is unclear of where and how THC is produced in/by marijuana plants take a read.

 


CANNABIS CULTURE - An up-close look at the THC-producing resin glands of the cannabis plant through pot-ographer Bubbleman's macro lens.

If you&#8217;ve seen pictures of mature cannabis plants taken with a macroscopic lens that&#8217;s zoomed-in very close, then you&#8217;ve undoubtedly noticed the many glistening translucent resin glands protruding from the buds, leaves, and just about everywhere else on the plant (see &#8220;Stalking Trichomes&#8221;, CC #72). 

Most marijuana growers and readers of pot magazines are quite familiar &#8211; and some downright obsessed &#8211; with these resinous outgrowths known as trichomes. You may have also read that the sticky coating of trichomes is home to the active ingredients in cannabis &#8211; the stuff that gets you high and has all the medical benefits &#8211; tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), cannabidiol (CBD), and other cannabinoids. But have you ever wondered exactly what the trichomes do for the cannabis plant, or what biological purpose they serve? 
Sticky resinous growths knows as trichomes are home to the active ingredients in cannabis. (Click picture to enlarge)*Evolution of Trichomes*

In nature, only the strong survive, and it is hypothesized by biologists that trichomes evolved as a defense mechanism of the cannabis plant against a range of potential enemies (1). Trichomes, from the Greek meaning &#8216;growth of hair,&#8217; act as an evolutionary shield, protecting the plant and its seeds from the dangers of its environment, allowing it to reproduce. These adhesive sprouts form a protective layer against offensive insects, preventing them from reaching the surface of the plant. The chemicals in the trichomes make cannabis less palatable to hungry animals and can inhibit the growth of some types of fungus. The resin also helps to insulate the plant from high wind and low humidity, and acts as a natural &#8216;sun-screen&#8217; in protecting against UV-B light rays. But since trichomes contain euphoric properties attractive to humans, it may be man who has had the most influence on the plants&#8217; development through many years of favoring strains that consistently produce more of these gooey resin heads.


*Trichome Types*

Trichomes grow in numerous shapes and sizes on many types of plants. The cannabis plant has developed three main types (from NationMaster Encyclopedia):

Bulbous: This type is the smallest (15 to 30 micrometers). From one to four cells make up the &#8216;foot&#8217; and &#8216;stalk&#8217;, and one to four cells make up the &#8216;head&#8217; of the gland. Head cells secrete a resin, presumably cannabinoids, and related compounds that accumulate between the head cells and the cuticle. When the gland matures, a nipple-like protrusion may form on the membrane from the pressure of accumulating resin. The bulbous glands are found scattered about the surfaces of the aboveground plant parts. [Pictured below.]


Capitate-Sessile: The second type of gland is larger (25 to 100 micrometers) and more numerous than the bulbous glands. They are called capitate, which means having a globular-shaped head. On immature plants, the heads lie flush, appearing not to have a stalk and are called capitate sessile. They have a stalk that is one cell high, although it may not be visible beneath the globular head. The head is composed of usually eight, but up to 16 cells, that form a convex rosette. These cells secrete cannabinoids and related compounds that accumulate between the rosette and its outer membrane. This gives it a spherical shape. 

Capitate-Stalked: Cannabinoids are most abundant in the capitate-stalked glands, which consists of a tier of secretory disc cells subtending a large non-cellular secretory cavity. During flowering, the capitate glands that appear on the newly formed plant parts take on a third form. Some of the glands are raised to a height of 150 to 500 micrometres when their stalks elongate. These capitate-stalked glands appear during flowering and form their densest cover on the female flower bracts [specialized leaves that cover the seeds]. They are also highly concentrated on the small leaves that accompany the flowers. The male flowers have some stalked glands, but they are smaller and less concentrated than on the female. (2)

*Cannabinoids*

Cannabinoids are a group of chemical compounds that occur naturally in the cannabis plant, first discovered in the 1940s. When consumed by humans, the chemicals bind to CB1 and CB2 cannabinoid receptors in the brain and body, causing euphoria and other effects. The broader definition includes three general types: phytocannabinoids, which occur uniquely in the cannabis plant; endogenous cannabinoids, produced by the bodies of humans and other mammals, birds, fish, and reptiles; and synthetic cannabinoids, which are related compounds produced in laboratories. Cannabinoids present in the cannabis plant include THC, CBD, cannabinol (CBN), cannabichromene (CBC), cannabigerol (CBG), and tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV).


*Inside the Trichome*

*THC and other cannabinoids are produced in only one place on the cannabis plant: inside the heads of the
capitate-stalked trichomes.* How it happens: Organelles produced by the plant called Vacuoles &#8211; which contain phenols, a chemical compound similar to alcohol [pictured at right in blue], and another type of organelle called plastids &#8211; containing hydrocarbons called terpenes [red], make their way up the trichome stalk [green] and combine inside the secretory cavity into a fibrous mat [yellow]. *This concentrated mat is hit by UV-B light waves, causing the creation of cannabinoids. Since all of the psychoactive ingredients are produced inside the trichome, these tiny resin hairs have long been sought after by hash and oil makers and can be separated from the plant and harvested in a variety of ways* (3).

*Potency and Tricomes*

Many media outlets and politicians say the &#8216;potency&#8217; of today&#8217;s pot has increased dramatically in the last 30 years, claiming it contains anywhere from 10%-40% THC. Most are dubious claims, as it is quite obvious that a sample of herbal plant material does not consist of nearly half THC, but there is still much debate on the issue of potency classification. *One thing is for sure; heavy trichome production does not necessarily mean higher potency, because the resins inside the trichome may or may not contain high levels of THC and other active ingredients.* Some speculate that the percentage levels refer to the amount of THC in the oils produced inside the resin glands, but new studies show that cannabinoids other than THC also have distinctive effects on brain functions and cause correspondingly different effects on human cognition and psychiatric symptoms (4). This makes gauging the &#8216;potency&#8217; or &#8216;strength&#8217; of cannabis plants very difficult, as different cannabinoid level combinations may induce different types of highs. (For more information, see &#8220;Pot Potency&#8221; CC #34.)


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## i grow everglades bud (Sep 11, 2009)

brick top is right, but again its all in the preference if you read what he has posted you will notice everytime somthing is broken down it changes the high, i like a 1/2 body stone couchlock and 1/2 head high, this is cloudy to amber trichs for me, full amber to me isnt the right kind of high i like, i know guys who harvest full amber, all clear, 25% 75%, id is all on the harvester and the high he wants, i have found that most people like a mix when i sell them bud, bud know a few people who like couchlock, or headies! its just what you like and want , but enough of this, 

great grow bro, that bud looks very very tasty, ive been thinkin about that strain for my stash! that would make a nice addition, its beautiful !
when its all said and done throw us a smokey tokey report!


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## Brick Top (Sep 11, 2009)

i grow everglades bud said:


> brick top is right, but again its all in the preference if you read what he has posted you will notice everytime somthing is broken down it changes the high, i like a 1/2 body stone couchlock and 1/2 head high, this is cloudy to amber trichs for me, full amber to me isnt the right kind of high i like, i know guys who harvest full amber, all clear, 25% 75%, id is all on the harvester and the high he wants, i have found that most people like a mix when i sell them bud, bud know a few people who like couchlock, or headies! its just what you like and want , but enough of this,
> 
> great grow bro, that bud looks very very tasty, ive been thinkin about that strain for my stash! that would make a nice addition, its beautiful !
> when its all said and done throw us a smokey tokey report!


 

You are right about the preference part, at least to a point, but to clear things up, in very simply terms, THC creates the high, CBD creates the relaxing laid back couch-loch body stone effects. CBN causes a messed up, confused effect that many confuse for increased levels of THC potency and of increased levels of CBD/couch-lock. 
&#12288;
If someone is into a relaxing couch-lock body stone they want to pick a strain that has a CBD level of 1.0 or higher. At and above that level the couch-lock really kicks in.
&#12288;
It is an injudicious exchange to trade THC for CBN and it is an injudicious choice to make to intentionally create/grow herb for a couch-lock body stone by lowering THC levels in exchange for higher CBN levels when what the grower actually needs is genetics with a higher CBD level. 

The same goes for intentionally purchasing strains and pick high CBN level strains, and then in some cases intentionally increasing those levels even more by allowing THC to oxidize, over purchasing low CBN level strains with high CBD levels and not allowing THC to oxidize which is the best way for the person to get the couch-lock body stone they most enjoy.
&#12288;
Basically many growers will either knowingly or unknowingly exchange the most important thing of all, that being THC, for what is not a highly prized cannabinoid, that being CBN, to attain more of what they think is a couch-lock body stone while at the same time for whatever reason ignoring how very important CBD levels are in regards to a couch-lock body stone.


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## aknight3 (Sep 11, 2009)

hmm what i meant by being pushed into the bulb is whatever it is that creates thc, man congrats you cna google copy/paste or grab your nearest growers book and type it up quick and make it look all nice with some pics, i dont have those books or nor do i care to look up the resources of that information, some of that info in there is actually only theory not even true, now again not saying all of it, make sure you read before you misconstrew me with another 500 word post saying how wrong i am. im not saying i know all and whatever i say is right, BUT what i do know is that plant that he showed me in the picture there is not ready, im not going to tell you because the trichomes arent ready or anything like that dude, i never did say that, im just saying looking at that plant in that picture on page 1, it isnt filled in, barley any receded hairs etc, it is not ready, i didnt say anything about trichomes are such until you brought out your botany books, congrats though you can have this internet fight, im not here to do that, im just trying to help this guy and tell him my opinion on when its ready, every person is different, every person has different effects and gets different feelings from all the canaboids in marijuana, to say its a scientfically proven fact that thc makes me feel high is absurd, how do you know what i consider high? how does a scientist? you dont know what i think high is, my description of high may be different from your description of high. when i feel high, i like to feel high in my body, in my eyes, thats my type of high, what is yours? it may be the same it may not be, some people say ''high'' is feeling it in the head, well thats not what i consider high again congrats on your googling botany degree you got me


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## hemphopper (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm grateful for all of this info, really! I grew my first crop indoors in 1975 under VHO fluorescents inspired by the Murphy Stevens book "How to Grow Marijuana Indoors Under Lights" Since 1975, THC content in the MJ most people smoke has increased dramatically I believe. That is, shit's stronger today than it used to be - on average because of all the good work that's been done by cannabis lovers world wide. Okay then - I have in the past few years, passed out or whited out - or basically collapsed on the floor from just a few hits of some of the outrageous stuff that's out there. I'm in good shape, not overweight, but not any younger either. I'm looking for a high where I can still function but with a physical component. The Blue Cheese is more indica and so it tends to be a bit of a body high anyhow I think. I grew too many plants in a smallish area and cut one to make room 3 weeks ago. 3 hits from buds from that plant , which are still curing, gave me a good high that lasts all night - for me - my tolerance is not that high. I have a friend who grows and his shit is ridiculous - he has scraped me off his floor 3 or 4 times in the last year and I know now that i can only do a hit or 2 of his stuff. He smokes fat doobies of that shit all day long but I can't do that. Anyway I have read the tutorial, it makes sense. I also use my scope. So I'll harvest soon but I don't want too much of a Couch Loch (Lake Couch if you're not Scotch) high.


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## Brick Top (Sep 11, 2009)

aknight3 said:


> hmm what i meant by being pushed into the bulb is whatever it is that creates thc,


 
Your words were; "cloudy trichomes mean thc is stil being pushed into the bulb."


I responded to what you said. If you do not express yourself clearly then you can expect to have your foibles pointed out and proven wrong based on what you yourself say.
&#12288;
Also think of it this way. Based on what you wrote anyone here who read your message and does not/did not know where THC was produced if for some reason they chose to accept what you wrote as being accurate you would have them taught them something inaccurate. 
&#12288;
Clarity and details. That is what is needed when explaining something. 
&#12288;
Then again since many people do believe that THC is produced in glands and then rise up the trichome stalk into the resin-head possibly you are one of them and now have only claimed to have meant something totally different than you actually said. 
&#12288;
Maybe.

 




> man congrats you cna google copy/paste or grab your nearest growers book and type it up quick and make it look all nice with some pics, i dont have those books or nor do i care to look up the resources of that information, some of that info in there is actually only theory not even true, now again not saying all of it, make sure you read before you misconstrew me with another 500 word post saying how wrong i am.


 
Thank you, those were kind words. I have an amazing number of different sites for growing information in favorites folders and some I have saved to Word. It makes it much quicker and easier to respond that way. Especially since in some cases the exact same questions can be and have been asked three or more times in new threads in a single day and more times in preexisting threads. Then having factual information readily available comes in handy. What makes it even better is when something that is obviously factual is posted as opposed to poorly worded statements of opinions it helps to make it clear to most which bit of information is valid and which is not. So I go with it.
 




> im not saying i know all and whatever i say is right, BUT what i do know is that plant that he showed me in the picture there is not ready, im not going to tell you because the trichomes arent ready or anything like that dude, i never did say that, im just saying looking at that plant in that picture on page 1, it isnt filled in, barley any receded hairs etc, it is not ready, i didnt say anything about trichomes are such


 
And all I did was to point out that the only truly proven to be accurate way to determine when any plant is ready to be harvested is by going by the color of the trichomes. 
&#12288;
&#12288;
So yes I did bring up trichome colors but it was you who brought up THC being forced up into the . what was it you called them  "bulbs," yep thats it; "bulbs."
&#12288;
Its all clarity and details .. and of course accuracy tossed into the mix helps a whole lot too. At least it does for me. 
 




> until you brought out your botany books,


 

As I have said, your message, if not just totally inaccurate, was at the least totally misleading to anyone who did not know where THC is produced. So my response was to offer irrefutable proof so there would be no confusion. 
&#12288;
That seems to have upset you. 
 







> congrats though you can have this internet fight, im not here to do that, im just trying to help this guy and tell him my opinion on when its ready,


If you truly want to help him  then teach him to be able to figure things like this out on his own and then be able to pass on the information to someone else who does not know it instead of giving an opinion based on a picture and then information that was either totally inaccurate or totally misleading. 
 





> every person is different, every person has different effects and gets different feelings from all the canaboids in marijuana, to say its a scientfically proven fact that thc makes me feel high is absurd, how do you know what i consider high? how does a scientist? you dont know what i think high is, my description of high may be different from your description of high. when i feel high, i like to feel high in my body, in my eyes, thats my type of high, what is yours? it may be the same it may not be, some people say ''high'' is feeling it in the head,


 
Of course each person may react somewhat different to the exact same substance than someone else will. That has never been mentioned or attempted to be disputed. 
&#12288;
But there is scientific fact backing up what various main and or key cannabinoids perform. 

In your system or in my system they may perform those functions to a slightly different degree but they cannot and will not do them totally different. 

THC does what THC does. It may do it to a more major or more minor degree in you or me based on our genetic differences and ages and possibly any number of different things but it will still do what it does as well as it can in whoevers system it is in. 
&#12288;
The exact same thing goes for CBD and CBN and people do confuse the effects of one for being one or more other things, like confusing a high percentage of CBN for being higher percentages of THC and or CBD when it is higher percentages of THC and CBD (if they want couch-lock) and lower percentages of CBN. 
&#12288;
You asked; "how does a scientist? you dont know what i think high is, my description of high may be different from your description of high." 
&#12288;
You implied that possibly your, or someone's, definition of high is the result of high levels of CBN and that a scientist nor anyone else could logically dispute that since their perception and yours, or whoever the other person would be, would not be equals.

Lacking an accepted yardstick to measure by how can anyone say what is really what? That is basically what you said, correct?

Well that would be accurate of you to have said that. 
&#12288;
But it is still, in a way, misleading. 

It implies that taking the lower percentage of THC and CBD route and instead taking the higher percentage CBN route for a couch-lock is as wise as doing the opposite. 

Did you not read the proven information I posted or did you simply refuse to accept it? 

Regardless of wanting to call it personal preference what you said is totally illogical for anyone who wants the very best herb they can grow. 
&#12288;
You are advocating trading off the two most important substances when it comes to good pot that has a couch-lock effect for one other substance that is known to not be as desirable. 

Where can any small semblance of logic be found in that? 
 







> well thats not what i consider high


 
Maybe then you are just one of the poor unfortunates of the world who have not been lucky enough to have experienced a real true high or a real true couch-lock body stone so you lack an accurate accepted yardstick to go by.
 




> again congrats on your googling botany degree you got me


 
You are very welcome, it was a distinct pleasure on my part. 

I deeply thank you for so graciously handing me this opportunity to present so many facts and to clear up what may have been a rather considerable amount of confusion.


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## aknight3 (Sep 16, 2009)

im sorry bro, ''stalks'' im not much for science, you seem to like to assume yourslef brick, i never said i was upset, i am not or never was upset, im sorry a 40 yr old man such as yourself with the stubborness of a mule cannot upset me, sorry i had to grow up with my dad, some old dude on the internet wouldnt upset me, dont you worry about that, then you said im a poor unfortuanate who has never experienced what being high really is, wow thats awesome so you must be this super dude with these super duper strains available to only a select few of your posse and the rest of us are just poor unfortuates, your an idiot just for saying that and im definitley done having this conversation with you, dont bother replying becuase i wont read it, i dont even know why im wasting my strokes 10 days later. blah, unfortunate son, i aint no fortunate one. must be my fucking yardstick, but i cannot get through the ego sorry, my stick must not be long enough


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## hemphopper (Sep 16, 2009)

Gentlemen,

I'm deeply grateful for all facts and opinions that have been posted here. As lovers of weed we all share a common attraction for that place we go when tokin' up. I wish I was there now but being at work...., well, can't go there till tonight. Any how, I have not cut my plants yet! They are still producing white pistils so I'm gonna wait a bit longer till no more new pistils are emerging. Having started this grow June 11, what's another week or 2??

Thanks!


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## plantz (Sep 16, 2009)

Brick top owned you.


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## aknight3 (Sep 16, 2009)

you did the right thing hemphopper, you will be more pleased with another week or two wait, cut off a tiny bud now and save it, then compare, you will see what i mean


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## hemphopper (Sep 16, 2009)

That may be, but my gals are still standing and the autumn colors are approaching so I'm waiting till they look done. But damn, it's tempting to cut them. Still making white pistils - not many but some. I've given up on the scope because it's hard to judge what I'm seeing though it's fun to gaze. Really, one of the coolest things about growing is staring at the plants! At least for me that's true and looking at a section of leaf through a scope can't compare to the full visual with both eyes open. I'm gonna wait for the amber frosting, swollen calyx's and receeding pistils - till it looks like dope for the pipe. That seems to be the best advice I've seen here and they are bulking up nicely too. I'm sure a lot of people harvest early but I've got a bit of weed to get me through so waiting is best for me right now.


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## aknight3 (Sep 16, 2009)

yes man, that is the best joy of growing, being with your ladies and loving them, my plants are my babys, when im growing im pregnant, and im serious. i like your idea, wait till it looks dope for the pipe you will be happier, i do not go by stupid fucking scopes, all glands finish at different times so theres really no way to get a 'all amber' or all cloudy or even a percentage because alot of the times the glands are done at different times on different parts of the plant, thats why i do not go by microscopes, the plant will tell you when its ready, you dont need botany books, google, or a microscope to tell you that, my trichomes are all different colors when i harvest, i harvest when the PLANT is ready not when the trichs are, that way you get the FULL effect of your marjiuana, i mean you do want to get high, that is what we do this for. anyways yes hemp nice job wait till calxys full swell and almost look like little spades, once that happens not only will your yield be bigger, your buds will look overall better and actually done, not half the shit i see out there today, anyways hemp, good luck friendi wish u the best +rep for doing the RIGHT thing



oh yea plantz, as for brick top or anybody ''owning'' me, thats awesome i could care less, this kid waited, and now he will get the full affect of this harvest, thats what im here for, to help newer people MAXIMIZE their harvests, not argue with 50 year old dudes who sit on the comp all day putting everyone elses thoughts and idea down, so, it feels good to be owned, as long as i helped 1 person  GOOD LUCK HEMPHOPPER +REP


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## hemphopper (Sep 16, 2009)

Thanks Man,

There's 6 plants, getting ripe but just a ways more to go. It's funny they all came from the same seed stock but 2 stretched like crazy during flowering and they are the the 2 that are still with many white pistils. They show signs of yielding the biggest colas once done. Here's some pics. Sorry, I dont know how to do the landscape/portrait thing so some (all) of the pics are sideways lol


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## gotthat (Sep 16, 2009)

aknight3 said:


> again, i dont go by charts, i dont go by trichomes, i go by the look of that plant, not only can it gain more yield but the potency of that plant has not reached its maximum, i can tell by looking at the low quality pics, why would you cut a plant down thats still growing and blooming, harvesting with milky trichomes is a opinion as well as mine is, just cause you have some charts to back it up doesnt make it any more fact. i dont know, when i smoke weed i like to get high
> 
> 
> try reading this hemp hopper https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/28072-harvest-time-tutorial.html


 how tall did those blue cheese get?


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## aknight3 (Sep 16, 2009)

i am not sure friend i did not grow them, ask hemp hopper, and btw hopper, they are looking really good now dude, i would say like another week, after that its all up to you ya know, but expect to be extremly stoned and craving pizza and wings, enjoy the blue cheese! send me some


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## maurice*del*taco (Sep 16, 2009)

aknight3 said:


> again, i dont go by charts, i dont go by trichomes, i go by the look of that plant, not only can it gain more yield but the potency of that plant has not reached its maximum, i can tell by looking at the low quality pics, why would you cut a plant down thats still growing and blooming, harvesting with milky trichomes is a opinion as well as mine is, just cause you have some charts to back it up doesnt make it any more fact. i dont know, when i smoke weed i like to get high
> 
> 
> try reading this hemp hopper https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/28072-harvest-time-tutorial.html


thats what i think to man, but explained it a way i never could


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## Spoony Da Dro Man (Sep 16, 2009)

Man fuck all the bullshit- thats a nice ass grow no matter when you decide to chop.


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## blakkmask (Sep 16, 2009)

HAHA, I love Brick Tops posts. You ask him what time it is, he tells you how to build a clock.


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## hemphopper (Sep 17, 2009)

The tallest cheese girls got maybe 4 foot. The shortest are around 3 foot. I veged em for about 30 days and they stretched when 12/12 started. I grew em in a cab I made that's 2' X 4' X 6' based on a box a friend made back in the 70's when we used to grow under fluorescents. I used 2 four tube 4 foot T5 HO fixtures and added 8 42W CFL's during flowering. That's enough watts for me - roughly 700. Fox Farm soil and nutes. Don't think I'd use those nutes again or if I did, I'd go light. Would like to mix my own soil next time but need to do more research on that. I'd like to get an HPS lamp for the future but I have to figure out the heat issue first. They've been 55 days in flower since all plants showed flowers or 70 days in 12/12. Attitude seeds, Barney's Farm Blue Cheese feminized. I started with 10 (insanity for that small box). I cut 4 along the way because crowding got outa control. The 4 sacrificed plants , though cut early, produced good smoke but the buds on the 6 remaining now will be really good. Attitude really is a good seed source. I like the order tracking feature.


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## DK77 (May 14, 2010)

Mint plants blue cheeze is mint to clone im sticking with it for many a grow!!


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## TheCheese (May 29, 2010)

hemphopper said:


> The tallest cheese girls got maybe 4 foot. The shortest are around 3 foot. I veged em for about 30 days and they stretched when 12/12 started. I grew em in a cab I made that's 2' X 4' X 6' based on a box a friend made back in the 70's when we used to grow under fluorescents. I used 2 four tube 4 foot T5 HO fixtures and added 8 42W CFL's during flowering. That's enough watts for me - roughly 700. Fox Farm soil and nutes. Don't think I'd use those nutes again or if I did, I'd go light. Would like to mix my own soil next time but need to do more research on that. I'd like to get an HPS lamp for the future but I have to figure out the heat issue first. They've been 55 days in flower since all plants showed flowers or 70 days in 12/12. Attitude seeds, Barney's Farm Blue Cheese feminized. I started with 10 (insanity for that small box). I cut 4 along the way because crowding got outa control. The 4 sacrificed plants , though cut early, produced good smoke but the buds on the 6 remaining now will be really good. Attitude really is a good seed source. I like the order tracking feature.


 
How tall and old were they when you went 12/12 Have you got any new pics


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## osiris 51d (May 24, 2011)

This is my barney bleu cheese dawrf. lits my first grow. she has been on a fulsh for 2 weeks and am going to give her a mollas feed 2night. any idea how far she is? seemed a good thread that is why i posted hear. ta. oz


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