# The Universe



## Token (Jul 31, 2007)

is anybody else watching it?, i toke astronomy in high school, it was way cool.

this show is trapping me out talking about galaxies, each galaxy has has 100billion stars and each star is a sun. the milky way is in a super massive blackhole!


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## midgradeindasouth (Jul 31, 2007)

I have seen it on the history channel.
They have a few different ones.

Maybe one day we will find some friends out there.


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## Token (Jul 31, 2007)

how they make it sound i think so, theres more stars then there is grains of sand on the Earth! its crazy


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Aug 1, 2007)

That is mad its alot of sun,s burning makes u think earth is nothing ... and that theres billions more plantes we just cant see that dont burn like stars/suns i dont think no 1 would find us from up there if u can fit the earth on the sun a million times and planets dont burn bright like stars 

i dident believe or think there could be life any were else but if theres billions more suns there should be billions and billions more planets i guess 

i think this would be ignorent of me to say theres no life any were else now 

I cant believe them 8 or 9 planets that we already know is all there is there must be hunderds of billions and billions more planets that are eyes cant see and im sure 1 of them suns could start moisture , clouds, rain ,water on another planet some were and make you think ther could be life galaxys away


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## jesus3 (Aug 1, 2007)

those pics are amazing!!The Hubble Heritage Project Website and this pics is not photoshop made.


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## 4theist20 (Aug 1, 2007)

This is why I'm an atheist. When you get a small understanding of the grandness of our universe, the concept of a God just isn't big enough. Nothing that our tiny brains can imagine is big enough.


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## paul-mc (Aug 1, 2007)

does anyone think that someday we will be able to travel to another universe? we will have to travell faster than the speed of light to get there within our life span.


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## Token (Aug 1, 2007)

no, because there still so many light years away, by the time you got there you would be an old man. the Hubble pic are awesome, and learning more about the universe is why i lost all faith in religion but there can still be a higher power yet to revel itself.


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## TheConstantGardner (Aug 1, 2007)

paul-mc said:


> does anyone think that someday we will be able to travel to another universe? we will have to travell faster than the speed of light to get there within our life span.


Well, not really. All the galaxies we can observe are in our universe 
Traveling to another universe would require inter-dimensional travel and require super string theory to be correct in the theory that our universe is only one of a much broader multiverse.

This subject has always fascinated me and suggests where gravity comes from and why it is such a weak force.

Gravity, like light, gets weaker at an inverse square ratio. Separate two quarks and the force between them gets stronger and stronger, like a rubber band.

It'll all be settled within a decade when the Higgs field is positively demonstrated.

God, I love science and weed, especially together


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## TheConstantGardner (Aug 1, 2007)

oh, btw, to truly accelerate any particle with mass to the speed of light would require an infinite amount of energy.


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## Shook (Aug 1, 2007)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> That is mad its alot of sun,s burning makes u think earth is nothing ... and that theres billions more plantes we just cant see that dont burn like stars/suns i dont think no 1 would find us from up there if u can fit the earth on the sun a million times and planets dont burn bright like stars
> 
> i dident believe or think there could be life any were else but if theres billions more suns there should be billions and billions more planets i guess
> 
> ...


 
hmmm, lets see if i can remember correctly... If just .01% of the known universe could sustain life, and .01% of that had any form of intelligent life on it, then the amount of civilizations out there is uncountable... it goes somethin like that...  Also, there are already plenty of habitable planets found that have clouds and rain and such, theres one thats pretty close to us and is like 5x the size of earth


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## Sabud (Aug 1, 2007)

Let me all tell you a story about the beginning of time. The Universe all started out when god and his roomate Chugs were arm wrestling......

God: *fart waves it towards chug while in arm wrestling match* ha
Chugs: yuck
God: HAHAHA I WIN oh i got another 1 give me ur lighter
God: *FARTS , ignites far and bOOM!!! big bang = galazies*

Thats how the universe was born


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## Erniedytn (Aug 2, 2007)

I watched this last night, very interesting program. They said that if the Earth was a period at the end of a sentence on a piece of paper, the universe would be the size of the continental United States, and that there are more stars in the known universe than there are grains of sand on the US coastline.


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## Sabud (Aug 2, 2007)

dude u got taht wrong there are more stars in the universe than there are grains of sand on all the beaches in the world.That there are more stars and bacteria in existance at the moment that there have been people alive on earth ever since the beginning.


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## Sabud (Aug 2, 2007)

btw the united states isnt a continent, north america is a continent. united states is a country


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## Token (Aug 2, 2007)

TheConstantGardner said:


> oh, btw, to truly accelerate any particle with mass to the speed of light would require an infinite amount of energy.


yup and we also need to be able to make fusion of particles like our sun.


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## rkm (Aug 2, 2007)

If there is nothing or no one else out there, it would be a terrible waste of space.


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## Shook (Aug 2, 2007)

Telescopes pwn, too bad im too poor to afford one.


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## Token (Aug 2, 2007)

rkm said:


> If there is nothing or no one else out there, it would be a terrible waste of space.


lol, thats a good one. I wish i had a telescope, get stond and look in the way out there


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## Shook (Aug 2, 2007)

Token said:


> lol, thats a good one. I wish i had a telescope, get stond and look in the way out there


Ya i used to think that like its really far out there before you see anything, but if you go out into the country, and look up at night, you can see the galaxy, its crazy, i didnt know about that before  

It really gives you a sense of community... now can anyone look at that and tell me there is definitely no life in our galaxy alone?


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## Token (Aug 3, 2007)

damn that is crazy cool lookin, I've been out in the country just never seen it that clear , looking at that at night would be way cool.


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## Shook (Aug 3, 2007)

Token said:


> damn that is crazy cool lookin, I've been out in the country just never seen it that clear , looking at that at night would be way cool.


Yes, a telescope out there would be wicked


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## suicidesamurai (Aug 3, 2007)

Shook said:


> Ya i used to think that like its really far out there before you see anything, but if you go out into the country, and look up at night, you can see the galaxy, its crazy, i didnt know about that before
> 
> It really gives you a sense of community... now can anyone look at that and tell me there is definitely no life in our galaxy alone?


I live in a rural area and can see more stars than most people at night, but I've never seen anything that clear.


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 3, 2007)

suicidesamurai said:


> I live in a rural area and can see more stars than most people at night, but I've never seen anything that clear.


Do you think the pic's been doctored?

But........... who would do such a thing?

I smell a conspiracy.


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## Sabud (Aug 3, 2007)

that is the coolest picture ever


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## punarnee (Aug 3, 2007)

Stephen Hawkins had it right. And is still developing new ideas. Those Hubell pics are mind boggling..sack jesus...sack........ allah!


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## Token (Aug 3, 2007)

Einstein said the more he learned about the Universe the more he believed in a Higher power.


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## suicidesamurai (Aug 3, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Do you think the pic's been doctored?
> 
> But........... who would do such a thing?
> 
> I smell a conspiracy.


It looks like a picture taken from a telescope with a terrain foreground and the sign put there. Whose picture is it?


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## Shook (Aug 4, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Do you think the pic's been doctored?
> 
> But........... who would do such a thing?
> 
> I smell a conspiracy.


Nah its not doctored, there are lots of pics like this, besides ive been out in the country at night, (while driving across canada) and it was somewhat like this, but if that dam dust wasnt there we could see the center of teh galaxy  

But i was wrong earlier with what i said, its suppose to go like this, 

There are 400 billion stars in our galaxy, if only one out of a million of those had planets, and if one out of a million of those had life, and if one out of a million of those had intelligent life, there would be millions of civilizations out there.


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 4, 2007)

Shook said:


> Nah its not doctored, there are lots of pics like this, besides ive been out in the country at night, (while driving across canada) and it was somewhat like this, but if that dam dust wasnt there we could see the center of teh galaxy
> 
> But i was wrong earlier with what i said, its suppose to go like this,
> 
> There are 400 billion stars in our galaxy, if only one out of a million of those had planets, and if one out of a million of those had life, and if one out of a million of those had intelligent life, there would be millions of civilizations out there.


Unfortunately, a million isn't very much.

What do you term 'intelligent life'? Say, an ant. Would you term ants as intelligent life?


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## Sabud (Aug 4, 2007)

good point skunk but i see it as this, how do we know were consider intelligent life we could be the retards of the world becuase we are the only living creatures on earth that kill ourselves, and kill our own kind for fun or stupid reasons. Animals kill different animals to survive or food.

How do we know that a ant isnt a super genious they can lift like 60 times there weight or something, just cause there small and dont speak human doesnt mean there retards. i mean serioulsy we dont know that much


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## Gygax1974 (Aug 4, 2007)

lol speak human?


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## Sabud (Aug 4, 2007)

lol well if i said speak english that would interms justify english as the dominant language of humanity even though were the youngest language (american english) theres chinese, spanish,french, duthc (fuk ya amsterdam)


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## suicidesamurai (Aug 4, 2007)

Sabud said:


> good point skunk but i see it as this, how do we know were consider intelligent life we could be the retards of the world becuase we are the only living creatures on earth that kill ourselves, and kill our own kind for fun or stupid reasons. Animals kill different animals to survive or food.
> 
> How do we know that a ant isnt a super genious they can lift like 60 times there weight or something, just cause there small and dont speak human doesnt mean there retards. i mean serioulsy we dont know that much


Wtf are you talking about? Intelligence has to do with cognitive ability not how much weight you can lift.


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## suicidesamurai (Aug 4, 2007)

Sabud said:


> lol well if i said speak english that would interms justify english as the dominant language of humanity even though were the youngest language (american english) theres chinese, spanish,french, duthc (fuk ya amsterdam)


English WILL be a dominant language in the future. In 100 years virtually everyone will speak it as a second language.


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## Sabud (Aug 4, 2007)

Thats probably true and all i was saying is we have no fact that we are the most intelligent or close to mos tintelligent creatures on this plant,


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## Ethnobotanist (Aug 4, 2007)

Shook said:


> There are 400 billion stars in our galaxy, if only one out of a million of those had planets, and if one out of a million of those had life, and if one out of a million of those had intelligent life, there would be millions of civilizations out there.


Mind-boggling, isn't it? There is definately other forms of terrestrial life out there. And there is an excellent chance that there is highly organized, highly "intelligent" life out there. But as for civilizations... I sincerely hope so, but the chances of there being a self-aware, sentient species that would expand beyond its own biosphere is extremely slim. WE are the oddity of the universe. 

~Ethno


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 4, 2007)

Ethnobotanist said:


> WE are the oddity of the universe.
> 
> ~Ethno


Eventual gods ethno. God is not our past or present, it is OUR future.


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## Sabud (Aug 4, 2007)

daddy skunk is talkin crazy!!!!!! lol dont forget homie you owe me a rep, i aint gonna let u forget that


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 4, 2007)

Gave it to you yesterday. Signed it SKH.

Did it plus?


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## Shook (Aug 4, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Unfortunately, a million isn't very much.
> 
> What do you term 'intelligent life'? Say, an ant. Would you term ants as intelligent life?


Well i said millions, not a million, and thats our galaxy alone, there are an uncountable amount of galaxy's out there, we just keep findin more, and as in intelligent life, an ant would not be, it is not self aware it is not really much different then bacteria if you think about it, but by intelligent life i mean, they are self aware, they understand their surroundings, and have reason, so dogs arent really considered intelligent life forms because they dont really understand what is happening, humans are fairly intelligent, but if we ever do find others, the chances of them looking anything close to human is next to impossible.


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## Token (Aug 4, 2007)

and space is stretching


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 4, 2007)

Shook said:


> Well i said millions, not a million, and thats our galaxy alone, there are an uncountable amount of galaxy's out there, we just keep findin more, and as in intelligent life, an ant would not be, it is not self aware it is not really much different then bacteria if you think about it, but by intelligent life i mean, they are self aware, they understand their surroundings, and have reason, so dogs arent really considered intelligent life forms because they dont really understand what is happening, humans are fairly intelligent, but if we ever do find others, the chances of them looking anything close to human is next to impossible.


Fine, millions isn't much either.

All life on this planet is related. How do you know that ants are not aware of the self? If they are not aware, why do they behave in the same way we do? Ants form tribes, with armies, workers, a queen, even slaves. The slaves are taken from other ant tribes that have been conquered.

All life is the same. Voracious predators (no matter the foodstuff). All life feeds from other life. Whether bacteria or human. All life wants to do, is live. This is it's driving force, our driving force, an ants driving force. Just because we cannot communicate with ants does not make them unintelligent.

Elephants mourn their dead. They've very recently started to remove the tusks from other elephants that have died. Scientists believe this has something to do with ivory hunters. Why do you think they do this? Look into the animals eyes and tell me you do not see intelligence.

Chimpanzees hunting monkeys, using tactics (pincer movements) to capture and then eat the monkeys raw. They use tools for grinding insects out of bark. How long before they discover fire?

All life is searching for the same thing. Really we are all one, just gone in different directions, learned to survive in our individual ways. Survival is a product of intelligence. We survive the best this makes us the most intelligent, this does not mean that the other animals do not have intelligence.


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## Shook (Aug 4, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Fine, millions isn't much either.
> 
> All life on this planet is related. How do you know that ants are not aware of the self? If they are not aware, why do they behave in the same way we do? Ants form tribes, with armies, workers, a queen, even slaves. The slaves are taken from other ant tribes that have been conquered.
> 
> ...


so you're saying that if an ants brain was put into a human body they would be able to build what we built, you are comparing our brain capacity, and you dont think millions of civilizations out there equally or more advanced then us is alot? An ant isnt civil, they are not a civilization, i mean they are intelligent for their size but how can you compare them to human intelligence


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## jesus3 (Aug 4, 2007)

little bit off topic; but what you think?the Neanderthals has brains 13% bigger then we.Einstein use 10-12% of his brains.normal human use just 8%.this mean long time ago ppl. beeing smarter then we.we just lost almost all information witch we got from our ancient ppl.its just some thing.maybe wrong.i'm drunk today.


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## jesus3 (Aug 4, 2007)

scientists got example for us.if ants be big like sheep they got speed 140km\h and walk with weight on their chests somewhere around 200 kg.just one rule they got power in geometrical progression size+power.if you understood my thing.i'm drunksorry


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 4, 2007)

Shook said:


> so you're saying that if an ants brain was put into a human body they would be able to build what we built, you are comparing our brain capacity, and you dont think millions of civilizations out there equally or more advanced then us is alot? An ant isnt civil, they are not a civilization, i mean they are intelligent for their size but how can you compare them to human intelligence


Who said anything about millions of civilisations?

Ants are not civil? Who says? Ants do not have civilisation? 

They have a very ordered civilisation where every ant knows it's place. They have slaves, also ants that guard the slaves. Ordinary worker ants that go out foraging. Soldier ants, in many societies these may or may not have wings dependent upon the type of soldier they are. I suppose you could call them socialists.


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## Shook (Aug 4, 2007)

w/e im tired of arguing with you, your just making no sense


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## Token (Aug 4, 2007)

What does socialists ants have to do with the universe, Wow ants work together because the hole colonie is a family.


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## Shook (Aug 4, 2007)

im sure everyone will agree that ants are not a civilization


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## Ethnobotanist (Aug 4, 2007)

Skunkushhybrid has a point.
Ants do have a very complex and ordered society. As mentioned before, the ants take slaves. 

Some species of ants practice agriculture. It sounds insane, but some species have evolved symbiotic relationships that resemble the keeping of livestock. Leafcutter Ants collect plant material for certain species of fungus gnats to survive, and guard them from pests, and keep the area of their nest the gnats live in clean and free of mold. The then eat the material the gnats produce. Other ant species do the same thing with other insect species. Some capture, raise, and milk aphids, giving them the moniker "ant cows". Insects are highly evolved, using chemical signals, body language, and the like to communicate with each other. While highly evolved, I still would not consider necessarily a higher lifeform. But, that all depends on what you consider "intelligence" to be.

The case for others species is more impressive. As he mentioned, the common chimpanzee is capable of forming hunting parties and patrols. They use highly complex tools; some tribes of chimpanzee have even exhibited the technology of creating stone basic stone tools and creating crude weapons from their environment. Bonobo chimpanzees, while probably less like us in the way they operate, show more self-awareness and general intelligence than the common chimpanzee. They have highly ordered societies, which unlike the other species of chimpanzee, is extremely and completely peaceful. They use sex as a means to achieve this; for this reason, they are functionally bisexual, and they are the only other species that engages in oral sex and kissing. The Bili Ape, which scientists assume is a new subspecies descended from the common chimpanzee (though it is an isolated, small group, and will likely die out because of humans), build crude shelters somewhat like gorilla nests, walk upright most of the time, and seem to be incredibly intelligent. If it wasn't for people already being everywhere, they might have the tools to have become the dominant species on this planet.

Apes have a complex vocabularly consisting of vocal sounds and body gestures that we don't understand, particularly gorillas. This is why we are so easily able to teach higher primates logograms and sign language; they have a predisposition toward language, if you can call it that. They do not exhibit properties of human language such as complex syntax or grammar. They can, however, communicate their thoughts and desires very well. Many higher apes are self-aware (passing every self-awareness test they can take), understand basic symbolism, and feel a FULL range of emotions, in much the same way we do.

Dolphins are now assumed by some to have a full-blown language, capable of relating symbolism.

So I see what skunkushhybrid is saying. We measure other animals against our own intelligence, without often knowing the full extent of what goes on in their heads. Some scientists (primatologists, specifically) are now pushing for something called "ape-personhood" in the United Nations, which affords basic rights to higher primates, because many now believe they may be sentient, but just not quite as intelligent as us. Then again, 50 years ago they equated the intelligence of a chimpanzee with that of a dog, before Jane Goodall actually studied their behaviour.

So, who knows? Intelligence is very, very hard difficult to test for, let alone measure. We only know the way we work, and compare ever other species to this standard. With some species, this may not be the way to go about it.

~Ethno


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## Token (Aug 4, 2007)

But what most scientists are looking for is any kinda life to prove that there is life building blocks example mircoorganism in millions of year can make intelligent life (mammals, insects, reptiles etc..)


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## Shook (Aug 4, 2007)

Ok ants have nothing to do with what i said earlier, ants are not considered intelligent life, when i said if one of those millions had intelligent life then there could be millions of civilizations, ants are not fucking in this category they are just regular life, when i said that i was using humans as a comparison


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## HoLE (Aug 5, 2007)

my god,,i went to the hubble thing jesus3 spoke of,,,,and i saw god,,er,,i mean,,,it was wild,,never seen shots like that before

Keep on Growin

HoLE


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## jesus3 (Aug 5, 2007)

HoLE said:


> my god,,i went to the hubble thing jesus3 spoke of,,,,and i saw god,,er,,i mean,,,it was wild,,never seen shots like that before
> 
> Keep on Growin
> 
> HoLE


yes this pics are amazing.imagine all what you see in this pics happens millions light years ago.


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 5, 2007)

Shook said:


> Ok ants have nothing to do with what i said earlier, ants are not considered intelligent life, when i said if one of those millions had intelligent life then there could be millions of civilizations, ants are not fucking in this category they are just regular life, when i said that i was using humans as a comparison


 
Of course ants are intelligent life. 

So to your mind we would need to come across another animal like ourselves for it to be regarded intelligent? 

Life and environment go hand in hand. 

As ethno' pointed out you cannot measure intelligence. Insects, to my mind, are aliens, they have their own reality. Just because it rarely stumbles into our own only proves how intelligent they are.

I'll go further. I'll also say that dogs are intelligent animals too. they are intelligent enough to feel emotion. Just because they cannot communicate with us, or us with them, in conversation. We do communicate in other ways. Silent ways. Dogs are empathic, cats too. They know exactly how we're feeling without us having to say a word.

We are so intelligent that we are going to allow this planet to destroy half the population. This is just the beginning. As Global Warming intensifies our architecture isn't going to be able to stand up. Fact is that millions of people are going to die.

What difference human beings to the earth and a cancer to the human body?


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## suicidesamurai (Aug 5, 2007)

Sabud said:


> Thats probably true and all i was saying is we have no fact that we are the most intelligent or close to mos tintelligent creatures on this plant,


Find me an intelligence expert that will claim we aren't the most intelligent species on this planet and I'll saw one of my arms off for you.


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## Shook (Aug 5, 2007)

Civilization:

An advanced state of intellectual, cultural, and material development in society, marked by progress in the arts and sciences, the extensive use of record-keeping, including writing, and the appearance of complex political and social institutions.


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## Sabud (Aug 5, 2007)

Intelligence is measured in mass quanities of matter of the unknown forbiddens of nature


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## shamegame (Aug 5, 2007)

suicidesamurai said:


> Find me an intelligence expert that will claim we aren't the most intelligent species on this planet and I'll saw one of my arms off for you.


Man that would almost be worth paying an expert like 100 bucks to lie for me.


As far as " intelligent life " goes, I think this refers to 3 things:

1.) Any form of life that shows the ability to make conscious decisions based
on not only changes in it's immediate environment, but also based on 
memories from similar environments or situations.

2.) A complex memory and the ability to recall and visualize people, places.
or things from your past.

3.) The " free will " of a conscious being that allows us to think about
something, estimate several different outcomes, and choose an option.
This goes hand in hand with our ability to commit an illogical action for
logical reasons.


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## Shook (Aug 5, 2007)

shamegame said:


> Man that would almost be worth paying an expert like 100 bucks to lie for me.
> 
> 
> As far as " intelligent life " goes, I think this refers to 3 things:
> ...


ya and ants arent part of any of those


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 6, 2007)

shamegame said:


> Man that would almost be worth paying an expert like 100 bucks to lie for me.
> 
> 
> As far as " intelligent life " goes, I think this refers to 3 things:
> ...





Shook said:


> ya and ants arent part of any of those


In what way? Ants do not make conscious decisions based on the immediate environment? Of course they do. All animals have memories. 

We are merely an animal, yet you'd rather believe we are somehow special. Animals are intelligent, whether you believe it or not.

If we found a cow on another planet this would be a victory, we would have discovered intelligent life. Intelligence cannot be measured. There are those that say it can, and try with Intelligence tests, but these tests are HEAVILY flawed. You and you, may have your views on what intelligence is but your views are flawed.

The word intelligence and animals are often banded together. Ants have a socialist society. 

That's one thing about insects that I don't understand. We know other animals feel emotion because we can see it. What about an insect? When we crush an ant beneath our boots, i wonder if there is an ant out there somewhere mourning.


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## suicidesamurai (Aug 6, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> In what way? Ants do not make conscious decisions based on the immediate environment? Of course they do. All animals have memories.
> 
> We are merely an animal, yet you'd rather believe we are somehow special. Animals are intelligent, whether you believe it or not.
> 
> ...


To quote the great Nim Chimpsky.

(in sign language)

"Orange eat me orange orange me eat orange eat orange me me me me orange eat orange orange me eat eat orange me eat me."


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## Shook (Aug 6, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> In what way? Ants do not make conscious decisions based on the immediate environment? Of course they do. All animals have memories.
> 
> We are merely an animal, yet you'd rather believe we are somehow special. Animals are intelligent, whether you believe it or not.
> 
> ...


ok goldfish are like 30x the size of ants, and they have bigger brains, but they only have a 3 second memory, so im pretty sure ants have worse memory then that


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Aug 6, 2007)

All we are is nuclear waist thats how are bodys are made up from an explosion (the big bang) the key to us being born is water after the bang blillions of particals that were blasted over the universe made up are body carbon, iron ,zinc, ect all from the nuculer explosion 

In the begining every thing all the gallaxys and stars were squeezed into 1 star say , the size of a match box and it got so warm that it exploded into billions of stars and planets more than there is grans of sand in are beaches
All the particals from that explosion is what made life but it was thousands of years after the explosion when water came 
we are 80% water 10% carbon (i think, not sure on the %) and the rest made up from other particals iron zinc mg ect. 

we are like some microscopic life that has formed on one of the tinyest parts of the univirse


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## Erniedytn (Aug 6, 2007)

Wow I hate that I missed out on this one. I'm just going to say a few things.

I would consider Ants intelligent because they do form tribes, have slaves, a queen, etc, but they are not intelligent like us because they do not have imaginations, feelings, dreams etc. That is what sets us apart from every other living thing. 

If we went to another planet and discovered something like an ant or a cow, it would be wonderful. It would let us know that even if that animal is not "intelligent" like us, it is still a living breathing organism.

Another thing is how did we get to the level we are at so fast? Humans have evolved immensly faster than any other thing, and this to me is also what makes us special. Something intervened, at some point and boosted our rate of evolution.


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 6, 2007)

Animals dream. I have sat and watched my dog REM sleep on several occasions.

How do you know that animals do not dream?


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 6, 2007)

*Who's the Birdbrain?* 

Birds may have a reputation for being less than geniuses, but researchers are discovering that some are remarkably smart. 






Some birds have the capacity to recognize, count, or name different objects.








Ravens, for instance, have the ability to solve difficult puzzles, such as untangling a knotted string to free up a tasty treat or figuring out how to steal fish by hauling in an angler's untended line. And, as shown in the first part of NATURE's INSIDE THE ANIMAL MIND, crows on the remote Pacific island of New Caledonia have learned a skill that people once thought only primates could master: the use of tools. The birds use long, specially chosen twigs to spear the plump grubs that hide deep beneath the bark of rotting logs. 

Raven antics and New Caledonia's clever crows have helped make people much more willing to admit that many animals, including birds, are quite intelligent. Dolphins can follow complex instructions, for instance, while orangutans learn complex tasks, such as washing clothes by hand, after just a few tries. And even pigeons and parrots have shown an extraordinary capacity to recognize, count, or name different objects. 





But no bird has done more to give a whole new meaning to the phrase "birdbrain" than Alex the African Grey parrot. More than 20 years ago, researcher Dr. Irene Pepperberg of the University of Arizona began systematically studying Alex and several other African Greys, parrots that are remarkable mimics, to understand avian intelligence. "Before I began my studies, I knew that parrots could reproduce the sounds of human speech, but that the general belief was that such vocalizations could not be meaningful," Pepperberg has written. 

Today, her work with Alex has challenged that notion. For instance, Alex can name more than 40 objects and understands the concepts of "same" and "different," "absence," "quantity," and "size." Alex, Pepperberg says "has mastered tasks once thought to be beyond the capacity of all but humans or certain non-human primates."


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 6, 2007)

*Stressed Out* 

Happiness, sadness, anger, fear, love, hate -- emotions play a pivotal role in our lives. But do they loom large in an animal's world as well? Part Two of NATURE's INSIDE THE ANIMAL MIND explores that question in fascinating detail. 






Like humans, baboons harass each other, compete for rank, and undergo stress.








In large part, researchers have found that emotions are accompanied by biochemical changes in the brain. Fear, for instance, is accompanied by the production of one set of brain chemicals that can make us alert and ready to flee, while pleasure triggers the release of other chemicals that soothe and calm. But some emotions aren't so biologically clear-cut. Shame, for instance, is a so-called "social emotion," the product of attaching an emotional meaning to a behavior, such as hitting another person, or lying, that may be appropriate in one social setting but out of bounds in another. 

While researchers don't agree on how big a role such social emotions play in the animal world, there is widespread agreement that many animals share another emotional characteristic with us: stress. Indeed, like humans, many animals can be harried and "stressed out" -- with sometimes serious health consequences.





Among the most remarkable studies of stress in animals are those carried out on African baboons by Stanford University research Robert Sapolsky and his colleagues. For three months each year, Sapolsky travels to East Africa's Serengeti plain to examine how factors like a baboon's social behavior, personality, and rank within its troop influence the levels of stress hormones produced by the ape. By measuring the hormones found in each individual's feces, Sapolsky's team has been able to show that baboon troops are high-stress societies, with higher-ranked individuals maintaining order by intimidating lower-ranked troopmates. Indeed, Sapolsky says, "Baboons and us are surprisingly similar . . . they can devote a large part of each day to making each other absolutely miserable with social stress."

Sapolsky's team has also shown that such stress can have real health consequences. Stressed-out mothers, for instance, have more problems producing healthy offspring. And sustained production of stress hormones can also damage the hippocampus, a region of the brain central to learning and memory. So even though baboons may not commute, do their bosses' dry cleaning, or pay income taxes, they suffer very similarly from the scourge of stress.


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 6, 2007)

*Socially Aware* 

As you read this, you are probably aware of reading this. Indeed, you can also imagine yourself reading this -- a sort of picture within a picture in your mind's eye. But do animals share this kind of consciousness? 






Many researchers believe that chimps are able to see themselves in relation to others in their groups.








That is the question asked by Part Three of NATURE's INSIDE THE ANIMAL MIND. The program ponders just what consciousness is -- and which animals might share this trait with people. 

Bees, for instance, appear to meet one of the requirements for consciousness. They can create "mental maps," images they hold in their minds that allow them to navigate around their environments by picturing themselves there. Chimps and elephants appear to exhibit another consciousness trademark: an awareness of death. Both animals grieve when family members die: elephants even linger over the bones of long-dead relatives, seeming to ponder the past and their own future. But are these behaviors enough to give bees, chimps, and elephants membership in the consciousness club?





Researchers are actively debating the answer to that question. "Consciousness is one of the hardest things to define and study," says Pete Chernika, an Austrian researcher who has studied consciousness in dolphins and other animals. "In experiments, for instance, dolphins appear to pass one consciousness test by recognizing themselves in mirrors. And dolphins also exhibit a keen awareness of the status and identity of other dolphins in their highly social groups, he says.They know who mom is, who the leaders of the pod are, and how they should behave around different individuals," he says. "They appear to be able to envision themselves in relation to all these other animals and then act accordingly."

Indeed, many researchers believe consciousness is more likely in highly social animals such as chimps and dolphins, who must be able to see themselves in relation to others in their groups in order to get along. "Complex social interaction puts a high priority on awareness of self and others," says Chernika. But he warns that the more people study other animals, the more we realize how hard it is to define consciousness -- and how hard it is to decide who has it, and who doesn't.


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 6, 2007)

[FONT=Helvetica,Verdana,Sans-serif]*Bees brighter than we knew, study finds 
They pass cognitive tests usually given apes, people
*[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica,Verdana,Sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=GENEVA,ARIAL]Keay Davidson, Chronicle Science Writer [/FONT] [FONT=GENEVA,ARIAL]Thursday, April 19, 2001 [/FONT] 




Bees are famously busy -- but they're also pretty brainy. 
Our pollen-hunting friends possess "higher cognitive functions," judging by cunning experiments in which the creatures learned to compare and distinguish different colors and patterns, according to today's issue of Nature. 
In what an outside expert praises as "an exciting discovery," the French researcher Martin Giurfa and four colleagues showed that honeybees -- that's Apis mellifera to bee fanciers -- excel at cognitive tests normally performed by lab primates and human volunteers. 
In the current film "O Brother, Where Art Thou?" George Clooney announces to his little band of waifs that he should lead them because "I'm the one with the capability for abstract thought." 
As the Nature article shows, bees also can engage in abstract thought. The creatures can "master abstract inter-relationships," specifically the cognitive concepts of "sameness" and "difference," Giurfa and his team report. Hence, "higher cognitive functions are not a privilege of vertebrates," that is, creatures with backbones and much more complex nervous systems. 
To demonstrate this, Giurfa and his team exposed bees to a simple Y-shaped maze. The entrance to the maze was marked with a particular symbol -- say, the color yellow. 
A bee flying through the entrance encountered a branching pathway. One branch was marked with the color yellow, another with the color blue. Bees that pursued the yellow-marked path discovered at its end a vial rich in sugar. 
Bees that took the blue path got no sugar. 
Normally, bees would have been just as likely to fly one way as another. But via Giurfa's experiment, the bees learned that sugar lay at the end of the route marked with the same symbol as that marking the outside entrance. In other words, "same" equals "sugar." 
The bees demonstrated an ability to recognize "sameness" and "difference" -- 
fundamental skills on any test of cognitive abilities. 
In a second experiment, the bees showed they could apply the concepts of "sameness" and "difference" beyond what they had learned in the first experiment. 
In subsequent experiments, the opening to the maze was marked by a different symbol -- such as vertical dark lines. In that case, on entering the maze the bees re-encountered the two pathways, which this time were marked not with colors but, rather, with lines -- vertical lines on one path, horizontal lines on the other. 
Had the bees remembered the lesson of the first experiment, namely that "same" equals "sugar"? They had. In the second experiment, more than 70 percent of the bees promptly flew down the path marked by vertical dark lines, the same symbol as that above the entrance. 
Judging by the experiments, bees' capacity for abstract thought is so impressive that Giurfa, who works at both Laboratoire d'Ethologie et Cognition Animale in Toulouse, France, and Institut fur Biologie in Berlin, bristled when a Chronicle reporter characterized bee cognition as "low-degree." 
"I disagree with your characterization of this being a 'low-degree' of intelligence," Giurfa replied by e-mail. "In fact, it would be the opposite! 
"(In the past) many researchers thought that this kind of learning -- learning of an abstract rule, which is independent of the stimuli used -- can only be possible in primates and human beings. Here (in this experiment) we show that this is not true. Abstract rules can also be mastered by the mini brain of a honeybee." 
"It is an exciting discovery," said a leading bee authority, Professor Michael S. Engel, curator of the division of entomology at the University of Kansas. "Early in the last century, (zoologist Karl) von Frisch shattered our concept of insect cognitive capacities by demonstrating that honeybees communicated by an abstract language -- that is, via the famous 'waggle dance. ' This eventually won him the Nobel Prize. 
"The findings by Giurfa and colleagues further reveal the cognitive level of bees and at the same time suggest that seemingly complex behaviors may have a relatively simplistic neural (nervous system) architecture," Engel added. 
In other words, if bees -- with their relatively simple nervous systems -- can be so smart, then human intelligence might eventually be explained more easily than previously assumed. _E-mail Keay Davidson at [email protected]._ 

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## skunkushybrid (Aug 6, 2007)

*Animals have complex dreams, MIT researcher proves*

*Study may advance understanding of human learning and memory*


January 24, 2001

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- Animals have complex dreams and are able to retain and recall long sequences of events while they are asleep, Massachusetts Institute of Technology researchers report for the first time in the Jan. 25 issue of the journal Neuron.
While any pet owner knows that animals seem to dream, and studies show that animals' brains follow the same series of sleeping states as ours do, this is the first time that researchers know what animals are dreaming about.
"No one knew for certain that animals dreamed the way we do, which can involve replaying events or at least components of events that occurred while we were awake," said Matthew Wilson of MIT's Center for Learning and Memory. "We looked at the firing patterns of a collection of individual cells to determine the content of rats' dreams. We know that they are in fact dreaming and their dreams are connected to actual experiences."
Wilson says that this new ability to eavesdrop on the sleeping brain provides a basis for analyzing the content of dream states. It could be a valuable tool in treating memory disorders such as amnesia or Alzheimer's disease, or it may help devise ways for people to learn and memorize more effectively.
"It has been a century since Freud brought forward the study of the subconscious and the examination of the content of dreams as a tool for understanding the nature of cognition and behavior in humans," Wilson said. "We now have the means to bring this world of dreams into the study of animal cognition, and by doing so, gain deeper insight into our own."
*Running in circles*

Wilson, associate professor of brain and cognitive sciences at MIT, and biology graduate student Kenway Louie trained rats to run along a circular track for a food reward.
They monitored the animals' brain activity during the task and while they were asleep. While the animal ran, its brain created a distinctive pattern of neurons firing in the hippocampus, a brain area known to be involved in memory.
Like us, rats go through multiple stages of sleep, from slow-wave sleep to REM sleep. In humans, it is during REM sleep that most dreaming occurs.
The researchers then examined more than 40 REM episodes recorded while the rats slept. About half repeated the unique signature of brain activity that was created as the animal ran. The correlation was so close that the researchers found that as the animal dreamed, they could reconstruct where it would be in the maze if it were awake and whether the animal was dreaming of running or standing still.
These memories were replayed at about the same speed that the animal had experienced them while awake.
*Not-so-instant replay*

Wilson explores how sleep may be involved in the formation of long-term memories. Scientists believe that memories are formed in at least two stages: an initial process that occurs during the experience itself, followed by a consolidation period in which the experience is transformed into long-term memory. The hippocampus is believed to be involved in both stages.
The long-term encoding of memories may occur when memories are reactivated during sleep.
Wilson's research focuses on how memories are incorporated in the brain during sleep and how reactivating memories during sleep affects long-term memory and performance.
"If you learn five things when you are awake, which ones are retained?" Wilson said. He speculates that if certain bits of information are replayed during sleep, this might determine which events we then remember.
Studies have shown that humans learning repetitive tasks can use REM sleep to enhance performance. In some cases, this "off-line" practice session seems to be just as good as practicing the experience when awake. Tests have shown that both rats and humans are better at a recently learned task after a period of sleep.
Likewise, dreams may represent an opportunity for us to continue to work on a problem while we're asleep. Some people report waking up with a solution to a problem that had been puzzling them for days.
"One theory regarding the role of dreams in memory is that dreams may provide the opportunity to bring together experiences that were related, but did not occur at the same time, in order to learn from them," Wilson said. "For example, replaying a series of pleasant or unpleasant experiences may allow us to learn what these experiences had in common and use this to guide future behavior."
*Animal dreams*

Why do animals dream about one experience and not another? "This work allows us to evaluate the content of dreams and create tests to see which awake patterns create patterns when the animal is asleep," Wilson said. "If we are able to evaluate the content of the dreaming state, we may be able to find out why certain events get replayed and others don't."
This work also raises questions about long-held assumptions about animals' thought processes. Only a handful of species -- among them chimps and dolphins -- were thought to have any ability at all to recall and evaluate detailed sequences of events after they occurred. Wilson points out that "dreams are the ultimate off-line experience. This work demonstrates that animals are capable of re-evaluating their experiences when they are not in the midst of them."
The Center for Learning and Memory (CLM) at MIT was established in May 1994 as an independent research center between the departments of Brain and Cognitive Sciences and Biology. The mission of this multidisciplinary center is to decipher the brain's molecular and cellular mechanisms and the neural circuitry underlying learning and memory and to piece the puzzle together into an understanding of the intelligent and complex functioning of the brain.
Wilson's work is funded by the National Institutes of Health and the RIKEN-MIT Neuroscience Research Center.


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## Erniedytn (Aug 6, 2007)

The fact still remains that we are more advanced than these animals. We obviousley have something they do not, or else they would be walking around going to work and the mall with us. Whatever that is, is what makes us different...that is what I was saying.


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## Shook (Aug 6, 2007)

Animals have a basic understanding, but the wont see and feel a refrigerator and understand what it is, or how its done, they cant build things like humans, they cant manipulate the environment liek us, and you are also far away from what i originally said, which spawned this whole thing, i said: there are 400 billion stars in this galaxy alone, if just one of a million of those had planets, and a million of those had life, and a million out of those had intelligent life, then there would be millions of civilizations, ants, apes all those fuckers arent a civilization now stop.


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 7, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> The fact still remains that we are more advanced than these animals. We obviousley have something they do not, or else they would be walking around going to work and the mall with us.


Some obviously have things that we do not. Dolphins can live in the sea, can we? Does this make them better than us? 

Animals have complex conversation, build complex societies, sleep, eat, fuck. What's the difference? They are just alien to us this is all. We cannot understand them so we assume them to be stupid, living on automaton.

Animals are not robots, they are seeing, feeling sentient beings. Just like us. As we LEARN MORE, scientists are discovering that there really isn't much difference between us and the rest of life on this planet, after all.

Animals have as much capability to learn as we do, they see the same things we do. Suffer stress, sexual frustration, cancers. They build societies, hunting parties, solve puzzles, take drugs. Apart from the obvious differences, basically all life on this planet is the same.


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 7, 2007)

Shook said:


> Animals have a basic understanding, but the wont see and feel a refrigerator and understand what it is, or how its done, they cant build things like humans, they cant manipulate the environment liek us, and you are also far away from what i originally said, which spawned this whole thing, i said: there are 400 billion stars in this galaxy alone, if just one of a million of those had planets, and a million of those had life, and a million out of those had intelligent life, then there would be millions of civilizations, ants, apes all those fuckers arent a civilization now stop.


Animals won't see a refridgerator because they don't know what it is. Just like a young child taking his first steps. We only know it's a refridgerator because we were taught that this is what it is.

A chimp cannot communicate with us, so how do you know that if the chimp was around a refridgerator for a week that it wouldn't learn that this is where food comes from? Then that it keeps food cold, after they hold it in their hands. Just like a child, animals need to be taught.

Animals do have civilisations. For a start, we do. Then ants, also chimps, baboons, bumble bees...

civilisation... an advanced stage or system of social development.


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## Erniedytn (Aug 7, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Animals have as much capability to learn as we do, they see the same things we do. Suffer stress, sexual frustration, cancers. They build societies, hunting parties, solve puzzles, take drugs. Apart from the obvious differences, basically all life on this planet is the same.


Ok I'll give you this much...chimps and apes have the ability to learn like we do. 

*BUT...*

You can't teach a dog, cat, goat or a cow how to drive a car or use a refrigerator...they are not like us.... all life is not the same.


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 7, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Ok I'll give you this much...chimps and apes have the ability to learn like we do.
> 
> *BUT...*
> 
> You can't teach a dog, cat, goat or a cow how to drive a car or use a refrigerator...they are not like us.... all life is not the same.


Yet there are things certain life-forms can do that we cannot. I'm not saying that you can teach a dog to drive a car, only that intelligence cannot be measured in this way. There are certain people that will never get to grips with driving too. This doesn't make them stupid, their minds just work in a different way.

We are more intelligent than the rest of life on this planet, this does not make the rest of life unintelligent.


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## Erniedytn (Aug 7, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> We are more intelligent than the rest of life on this planet, this does not make the rest of life unintelligent.


This is what sets us apart from everthing else...the question is how did we get this way?


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## Token (Aug 7, 2007)

All life is complex just because we are advanced doesn't mean we're better and animals r worst, By the way who the HELL cares about who is better, Life is Life and if we find it out there then it proves that you just need the right element to make life happen, it does not have to even look like us (w/ legs head arms) it can be a microorganisms and it still proves that we don't have some person(God) sitting on the clouds design life for everyone, thus hopfully making people more resonpible for there actions.


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## Shook (Aug 7, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Animals won't see a refridgerator because they don't know what it is. Just like a young child taking his first steps. We only know it's a refridgerator because we were taught that this is what it is.
> 
> A chimp cannot communicate with us, so how do you know that if the chimp was around a refridgerator for a week that it wouldn't learn that this is where food comes from? Then that it keeps food cold, after they hold it in their hands. Just like a child, animals need to be taught.
> 
> ...


Thats your interpretation of a civilization but i actually took mine from the dictionary... i guess you didnt really read my last post in which i said ur arguement doesnt even pertain to the original post


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 8, 2007)

Shook said:


> Thats your interpretation of a civilization but i actually took mine from the dictionary... i guess you didnt really read my last post in which i said ur arguement doesnt even pertain to the original post


Not only my interpretation. Actually my definition comes from the concise Oxford English Dictionary.

Here it is again, only in full this time:

civilisation. 1 an advanced stage or system of social development. 
2 those peoples of the world regarded as having this. 
3 a people or nation (esp. of the past) regarded as an element of social evolution (ancient civilisations; the Inca civilisation).
4 making or becoming civilised.

You need to buy a better dictionary.


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## Shook (Aug 8, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Not only my interpretation. Actually my definition comes from the concise Oxford English Dictionary.
> 
> Here it is again, only in full this time:
> 
> ...


*civ·i·li·za·tion* 








/&#716;s&#618;v




&#601;




l&#601;&#712;ze&#618;




&#643;&#601;n/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[siv-_uh_-l_uh_-*zey*-sh_uh_




n]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
_noun _1.an advanced state of human society, in which a high level of culture, science, industry, and government has been reached. 2.those people or nations that have reached such a state. 3.any type of culture, society, etc., of a specific place, time, or group: _Greek civilization. _4.the act or process of civilizing or being civilized: _Rome's civilization of barbaric tribes was admirable. _5.cultural refinement; refinement of thought and cultural appreciation: _The letters of Madame de Sévigné reveal her wit and civilization. _6.cities or populated areas in general, as opposed to unpopulated or wilderness areas: _The plane crashed in the jungle, hundreds of miles from civilization. _7.modern comforts and conveniences, as made possible by science and technology: _After a week in the woods, without television or even running water, the campers looked forward to civilization again. _

Theres mine, but even so your argument didnt pertain to your original post


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 8, 2007)

Shook said:


> *civ·i·li·za·tion*
> 
> 
> 
> ...





skunkushybrid said:


> Not only my interpretation. Actually my definition comes from the concise Oxford English Dictionary.
> 
> Here it is again, only in full this time:
> 
> ...


Don't forget mine comes from a well respected dictionary, where does yours come from?

I think the Concise Oxford Dictionary has the upper hand here. You only need to study the definitions to see that. 

To which original post does my argument not pertain?


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## Widow Maker (Aug 9, 2007)

Never heard of the Oxford. Websters ftw. Obviously its spelled different on your side of the world.


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## skunkushybrid (Aug 9, 2007)

No, it's spelt the same way here too. the 's' is an accepted variation.


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## Ethnobotanist (Aug 9, 2007)

Widow Maker said:


> Never heard of the Oxford. Websters ftw. Obviously its spelled different on your side of the world.


The Oxford Dictionary is the standard for the entire English language. New words enter the English lexicon (collection of common-usage vocabularly) through Oxford. 

Webster was a wanna-be revolutionary who "fought" the British by using his monopoly on American dictionaries and trying to bend American English to his own idea of what it should be. Including the introduction of new, artificial spellings to create another way for Americans to be 'different' from the British. And it worked. Sort of.

The spelling Skunk used was standardised international spelling of English. It's techinically the "correct way" to spell something. Only those people and institutions in the U.S. who were raised on Webster generally use the alternate spelling (and that is most of the United States). All Webster REALLY did is end up confusing a lot of modern people, and fucking up written English even more than it already was. 

I use international spellings, and I was raised in the States, though sometimes I'll concede to other spellings "such as 'z' instead of 's', as in 'standardise') so as not to confuse my fellow Americans. Personally though, I'd be happy if people were more or less literate and could actually spell most of what they meant to say correctly, whether they use an American or International spelling. But with the majority of adults supposedly reading at a 6th - 8th grade reading level, it's no wonder that only happens every so often. Yes. I'm venting.

~Ethno


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## Miracle Smoke (Aug 15, 2007)

Are other existence on this earth unintelligent, hell no. How can it be unintelligent without intelligence!? As humans we are the top of the food chain and the only reason for that is are adaptive skills and mostly through us working together as a team as group. Now i don't like the idea being limited to our genes but this is interesting, self-preservation the thought is that we live to pass on our DNA but we need others to do so. But the topic is on the universe and yes i do believe in the theory of a multi-verse and is the other intelligence out there?, there has to be. I really enjoyed reading this,

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~sai/hologram.html

the universe as a hologram, i don't know if i can believe it or not (im agnostic), but it's intriguing.


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## mastakoosh (Aug 26, 2007)

Just think there may be a planet a billion miles away that is the exact same as earth. Human beings and all. But maybe they are ahead of us by a thousand years, or behind us by a hundred thousand years. Just picture it.


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## Token (Sep 2, 2007)

I just can't wait for them to find anything and flip the bible up side down, thats what i waiting for the step forward for man kind


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 3, 2007)

Token said:


> I just can't wait for them to find anything and flip the bible up side down, thats what i waiting for the step forward for man kind


You don't find the bible unbelievable as it is? What about moses parting the sea? What about Mary having a baby without ever having sex? What about Jesus curing blind people? Turning water into wine? Rising from the dead?


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## Evil Buddies (Sep 3, 2007)

So many religions who knows what to believe I say just believe in Karma. Life is to short to worry about god and the after life concentrate on living. If are a good person and there is a god he will except u in heaven. I'm in to astrophysics the universe is a beautiful place. Heres a few pics of what i have i think they are so beautiful.

Evil


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## Erniedytn (Sep 3, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> You don't find the bible unbelievable as it is? What about moses parting the sea? What about Mary having a baby without ever having sex? What about Jesus curing blind people? Turning water into wine? Rising from the dead?


All these things can be explained with one thing.....


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## Token (Sep 3, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> You don't find the bible unbelievable as it is? What about moses parting the sea? What about Mary having a baby without ever having sex? What about Jesus curing blind people? Turning water into wine? Rising from the dead?


I do, I'm just waiting for them to find something else out there so The Massis will see that the bible is good for one thing setting good morels thats it in my opinion. As to religion i think Karama is the only thing i fellow


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 4, 2007)

My God Created All This Shit Show Some Respect And Smoke His Herb And Live In Peace And Open Your Mind 


No The World Is Not Flat


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## Erniedytn (Sep 4, 2007)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> My God Created All This Shit


Define God......


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 4, 2007)

Erniedytn said:


> Define God......


................................................................


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## Erniedytn (Sep 4, 2007)

That's your answer...LOL


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 4, 2007)

No Thats What I Think Of Your Question its a collage boy question

What way do u mean define god ??


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## Erniedytn (Sep 4, 2007)

Just what I said...define God. You said:


SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> My God Created All This Shit


Who or what is your God?


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 5, 2007)

God is faith

The Begining And The End ,


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## Token (Sep 5, 2007)

so god could be hydrogen gas star dust and infant space, now stop trying to force god on other people for one see a way bigger picture (space) but still quest to find out where we are going in space, the milkyway is about to clash with another galaxice it won't happen in my life time but the next 100-300 earth years. they have proved the BIG BANG theorie so read a little more science books an stead of that cult collecting bible and the human race will actually progress instead of being in the 1500's mind set still.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 5, 2007)

i know that made me sound like some bibe basher 
i cant expane nothing about nothing !
I just fired in a silly comment trying to chill out the place and the dude was looking me to explane god lol
Im not try to pump a belief on any 1 i dont give a fuck what any 1 believes


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 5, 2007)

Heres somthing i found for use x files startex dudes that would argue the define colour of shit lol 



*




*
*




*
*[SIZE=+2]THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA [/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=+2]& THE WORD[/SIZE]*



[SIZE=+2]*[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]God and The Trinity. A philosophical riddle.[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]If we are to use the Bible to solve this ancient riddle, the solution may be so simple that it has avoided detection. [/SIZE][SIZE=+0]The concept of God and Gods existance is an important one. To those who say God does not exist, their answer may be a half-truth or they are partly correct, and to those who say God does exist, their answer may be a half-truth, they too may be partly correct; yes this is all semantics, and dimensions.[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]If we look to the Gospel of John we find:[/SIZE]*[SIZE=+1]***IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD.[/SIZE]*

*****

[SIZE=+0]From Jesus Christ we also get the words, [/SIZE]
*[SIZE=+1]"The Alpha and the Omega"[/SIZE]*

In combing these two clues, we may eventually arrive at a simple solution; *[SIZE=+3]"Nothing"[/SIZE]*

[SIZE=+0]as an absolute infinite concept. Nothing as an absolute concept does not exist; it existed in the beginning and will exist in the end.[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]The Bible, speaks of God as the "alpha" and the "omega," the beginning and the end. If we are to accept that God was "nothing", the word in the beginning, then perhaps we can appreciate that part of nothing, is still a whole of nothing. That the three components of something, the beginning the middle and the end, are the same point. Divisible by God, and still God.[/SIZE]*[SIZE=+1]***[/SIZE]**[SIZE=+1]According to Einstein space and time both bend, so therefore the beginning eventually will meet the end at a point in time; this point is NOTHNG.[/SIZE]*

*[SIZE=+1]***[/SIZE]*

[SIZE=+0]We tend to think of nothing as zero, and that is not true. Zero does not exist, the ancients knew that in their mathematical systems.. Absolute and total nothing, existed in the beginning, and was perfect, and infinite, and perfectly infinite. The first and the last.[/SIZE]*[SIZE=+3]God is.[/SIZE]*

God exists in some dimension, or on, or of some dimension, a combination of such, or other. But according to words of Saint John, the most plausible solution to defining God, as in the beginning and the end is the concept *[SIZE=+1]"NOTHING",[/SIZE]*

or "______";this may be the word or the simple concept; and may be the clue to prayer and meditation. This state only existed in the beginning and will exist in the end, "nothing" in the absolute sense does not exist in that state today. We are talking about a world of different dimensions. We cannot say God is nothing, because nothing does not exist in that pure state. God created and we must appreciate that state as well. It also is a possible explanation for the Trinity, for 1/2 of nothing, or any part of nothing is still nothing. *[SIZE=+1]***[/SIZE]*

[SIZE=+0]Mathematically, [/SIZE][SIZE=+0](According to Professor Santa)[/SIZE]*[SIZE=+3]nothing and infinity[/SIZE]*

have similar properties which in some way may tend to substantiate the *[SIZE=+3]Alpha and the Omega concepts.[/SIZE]*

When we speak and say we have nothing, in actual fact we should say "we do not have anything or something"; there is a difference. Nothing and Infinity according to some mathematics is the same point. [SIZE=+0]God keeps these two points from meeting; through the creation of time, and space. [/SIZE]*[SIZE=+3]Simply put God was ____.[/SIZE]*


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## Token (Sep 5, 2007)

One of my fav. passages from the bible is Sodom and Gomorrah because it was probably a father raping his two daughters in a cave and yet everyone reads it and thinks oh if i don't believe then god is going to strike me down i read and think wow how many people believe this shit!


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## mastakoosh (Sep 5, 2007)

I believe in god and also believe in some scientific theories. Maybe god is buhdda or jah or allah. Who knows? I believe there has to be some reason we are in this fucked up life.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 5, 2007)

Wtf Are U On Mann .........................
Father Raping To Daughters In A Fucking Cave Lol Ya Want To Go Take Your Self Some Chill Pills Dude !!! 

Stop Trying To Force People Your Beliefs As You,d Say 
And As I Sayed You,d Argue The Define Colour Of Shit Lol


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## Token (Sep 5, 2007)

that was me just stating my opinion, but read it and take a sociology aspect to it man taking his daughters and there mother turned to stoned(died) for looking back it there city it's the bible again believe me or die is that not imperialism when Jesus thought peace and was more of a hippie then these religious nuts out there.


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## Erniedytn (Sep 5, 2007)

You guys are a trip...LOL


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## caveman (Sep 14, 2007)

wow the pics on that site are amazing. the colours in some of them wow wow all i can say.and for you to travel to other universe youd have to go 100x the speed of light..to go that fast you would have had to leave before you decide on goin and thats jsut for the speed of light.so to go 100x faster you would have prob had to decide in the dinousar days its physically impssible at this stage in life who nos what the furte has can only get better. gotta think the sun only got like 50 billion years left then it turns into a supernova


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 15, 2007)

mastakoosh said:


> I believe in god and also believe in some scientific theories. Maybe god is buhdda or jah or allah. Who knows? I believe there has to be some reason we are in this fucked up life.


If that were the case, then what would be the reason for this god's existence?


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## Token (Sep 15, 2007)

every fellower needs a leader i guess skunk


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 15, 2007)

Whats the reason for are existence being here ... some questions just can not be answerd 

I believe what i tend to and i dont what to try an make use think like me
but in nearly every holy book from every rase cathloics , jews ,muslims whatever.In all there holy books have the same people and story except that 1 some mad king made up his own becouse he wanted a new wife so he made up his own 
but all the accaint 1s tell the same thing even the muslim have mary and jesus in there holy book which i thought was a bit of a shock 

To me to think theres nothing greater than us is harder to believe


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## Token (Sep 15, 2007)

maybe because the answer is so stupid(just to exist) that other people(finders of religions) think you need a reason to live and with mass amounts of people Social Control(the ten commandments). OK the bible is good for morels but now almost every religion is ruled by so crazed nut job that thinks he/she is better then everyone else.


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## HumboldtGreenz (Sep 15, 2007)

When we TRULY find the answer of existance, we will find the apocolypse, IMO. There is a creator and nothing beyond (we really can NOT comprehend *nothing* more than we really can NOT comprehend something of unsurpassable being). There is a meaning behind the lives we lead and we are aimed in that direction, but the path we lead towards that answer is absurdely rudimentary as of now. I believe, one day, that before a self and/or external destruction of the world happens, we will find the true meaning of life.


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## mastakoosh (Sep 15, 2007)

i agree that probably those that think they are the most religous and moral are sometimes the most hypocritical. i believe that if i believe in a higher power and live my life to help others then maybe something better than this hell on earth exists. i dont care how anyone chooses to live. i wont push my ideals on anyone. live your life however you want to. and i try my best not to judge anyone and just live my life.


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## Token (Sep 15, 2007)

mastakoosh said:


> i agree that probably those that think they are the most religous and moral are sometimes the most hypocritical. i believe that if i believe in a higher power and live my life to help others then maybe something better than this hell on earth exists. i dont care how anyone chooses to live. i wont push my ideals on anyone. live your life however you want to. and i try my best not to judge anyone and just live my life.


Thats kinda where i'm at, I don't want to push my ideals i just want them heard!


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## HumboldtGreenz (Sep 15, 2007)

Token said:


> Thats kinda where i'm at, *I don't want to push my ideals i just want them heard*!


Fuck yeah! You hit the nail on the fucking head mi amigo!


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 16, 2007)

HumboldtGreenz said:


> When we TRULY find the answer of existance, we will find the apocolypse, IMO. There is a creator and nothing beyond (we really can NOT comprehend *nothing* more than we really can NOT comprehend something of unsurpassable being). There is a meaning behind the lives we lead and we are aimed in that direction, but the path we lead towards that answer is absurdely rudimentary as of now. I believe, one day, that before a self and/or external destruction of the world happens, we will find the true meaning of life.


OK, so what's the 'meaning' to this god's existence? and don't give me that crap that some questions just cannot be answered. There is no answer because there are no gods

If we need meaning then so does this fairy-tale god. If a god can just be, then so can we. Learn it.


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 16, 2007)

BTW, nothing is the absence of something. What's so difficult to comprehend about that?


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 16, 2007)

mastakoosh said:


> i agree that probably those that think they are the most religous and moral are sometimes the most hypocritical. i believe that if i believe in a higher power and live my life to help others then maybe something better than this hell on earth exists. i dont care how anyone chooses to live. i wont push my ideals on anyone. live your life however you want to. and i try my best not to judge anyone and just live my life.


 
If there really is A heaven an hell we,ll i find that bit a wee bit hard to believe but any way 
Im sure wont be going 2 heaven so get it out of yur heads that im some bible bashher lol 

i just believe in god and i dont believe in him 2 try and buy my way 2 some paridise 
im goin 2 hell with the pimps and whores and drugs and muggs


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 16, 2007)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> If there really is A heaven an hell with i find that big a wee bit hard to believe but any way i sure wot be going 2 heave so get it out of yur heads that im some bible bashher lol i just believe in god and i dont believe in him 2 try and buy my way 2 some paridise
> im goin 2 hell with the pimps and whores and drugs and muggs


No, you're not a bible basher. Yet you don't understand why you believe in a god, you just do. You do because this is what you've been led to believe. programmed from a young age.

I have no arguments against belief in a god, but only when the person truly understands WHY they believe. What is your god? Where does it live? Or is it that your god is actually the universe, and when you die you become a part of the cycle of life?

Or, is it that you are afraid of death? You need a heaven and hell because you can't imagine yourself not existing anymore?

Why do you believe in something that you know (deep down) is a load of shit?


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 16, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> OK, so what's the 'meaning' to this god's existence? and don't give me that crap that some questions just cannot be answered. There is no answer because there are no gods
> 
> If we need meaning then so does this fairy-tale god. If a god can just be, then so can we. Learn it.


 
Whats the meaning of any thing skunk ????????

Whats the meaning of us the sun the sea all the animals the endless universe every thing i dont think we r just here for the fun of it or by accedent 

To me humans are stupid and ignorent to the bigger pic we cant even explane half the things on earth the 7 wonders whats under the sea and whats up there past the 7 or 8 planets that we can see 

We cant even explane how accent men did things the piramids ect and some of the things the romans did we havent a clue how they did so 

Explane god ........ .. To me god an the devil are hear on earth i see it every day some people i no live with god in there heart you can tell by there personality and life style and actions and the 1s that has the devil in them well ya see them on the news every night

People are afraid 2 say what the believe becoz some asshole that knows nothing can always say prove it ! 
But sure thats there problem i
See ya,s all in hell yas bunch of cunts lol


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 17, 2007)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> Explane god ........ .. To me god an the devil are hear on earth i see it every day some people i no live with god in there heart you can tell by there personality and life style and actions and the 1s that has the devil in them well ya see them on the news every night


I've seen these people too. The ones that live with a god in their heart. Everyday, common sense forces them to question themselves as they continue with their foolish charade. Not only that, but most of them use this chardae to fool people into thinking they are somehow inherently good, like priests that bum little boys, while continuing with their charade.

When someone tells me they believe in a god, I see someone that is false, and certainly NOT to be trusted.

Be wary of anyone that claims to have no vices, for they are surely the worst offenders of all.


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## RASCALONE (Sep 17, 2007)

Be wary of anyone that claims to have no vices, for they are surely the worst offenders of all.[/QUOTE]i finally found what is gonna go on the bottom of each of my posts!
this really is a tuff subject,god,universe etc.i think the way u do on this skunk,i was taught religion,and i pass it on to my kids but when they r old enough to make their own choices they can decide to believe it or not.but back to me,i have endless q's on the subject and it bothers me somewhat becouse i some times have the a's tosome things,u now like how did this happen,mirecles and such.most the time there is an explinaton and its either scientific or coinsedence.some ppl just wanna believe it was a sign of some sort or a calling.....i think if ppl want to believe in god thats fine,and if not,thats fine too.but ive noticed "EVERYONE"needs something to believe in......rascalone


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 17, 2007)

When someone tells me they believe in a god, I see someone that is false, and certainly NOT to be trusted.

Be wary of anyone that claims to have no vices, for they are surely the worst offenders of all.[/quote]



I know what u mean on that 1 skunk there is them assholes that just want 2 be seen walking to church on a sunday with there fake smiles and creased trousers to prove they are good yes they are just pricks i dont trust them my self 

but im on about the real people humble and modest that choose to live with god in there heart and dont have to broadcase it for people like your self or some collage ganja smoker to say prove it or define it ..they are real people not fase at all no desiner labels to hide behind or fancy cars to look good , flashing your moble fones , to me every 1 else live a false life style nowdays all based on image and greed 

but u have no reason not to trust some 1 becoz they believe in god lol 
all the wee old folks i knew there was somthing dodgy about them lol c,mon skunk your talking crap now mann 

skunk if u dont believe in god thats fair enough man and when people do thats no problem eather 

i think u should smoke a wee joint man and dont get paronoide about any priest bumming u lol


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## mastakoosh (Sep 17, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> I've seen these people too. The ones that live with a god in their heart. Everyday, common sense forces them to question themselves as they continue with their foolish charade. Not only that, but most of them use this chardae to fool people into thinking they are somehow inherently good, like priests that bum little boys, while continuing with their charade.
> 
> When someone tells me they believe in a god, I see someone that is false, and certainly NOT to be trusted.
> 
> Be wary of anyone that claims to have no vices, for they are surely the worst offenders of all.


the priests that bum little boys are evil hiding under a false disguise. i myself am wary of trusting hardly anyone as most people are into only gain for themselves. no human alive has no vices. but my life is a journey of questions along the way and trying to better my inner self. thats what bums me out about alot of people in todays society. it is all about me me me, what can you do for me?


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## Token (Sep 17, 2007)

mastakoosh said:


> the priests that bum little boys are evil hiding under a false disguise. i myself am wary of trusting hardly anyone as most people are into only gain for themselves. no human alive has no vices. but my life is a journey of questions along the way and trying to better my inner self. thats what bums me out about alot of people in todays society. it is all about me me me, what can you do for me?


I hit that point along time ago and realized that everyone is me me me, and being bumed about It will turn to hatred as it did for me, as you see more and more that everyone wants everything but wants it handed to them and plainy don't give a fuck about anyone else.


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 18, 2007)

I hate all the falseness in the world. Belief in a god is just part of the bullshit people force themselves to believe everyday.

Journalists that haven't got a fucking clue what they are talking about, even bullshitting, filling peoples heads full of shit.

Trouble is, people can't think for themselves, people are scared... need direction. The media provides a blanket for people to hide under. If they take the side of the media then they can't be wrong because that is the general consensus, right? WRONG. The media do not speak for US, they speak for the government, and mind control.

It makes me laugh how cannabis (a medicine) can be portrayed as something bad. So what if kids under the age of 14 want to toke? It's fucking good for them. Doctors kill little kids by the thousands every year with their powerful medicines. Yet if I gave a 14 year old kid a toke of a joint I'd be seen as the most evil mo' fo' on the planet. Fuck them, its time for the truth. Weed is good, If everyone grew weed it would save the fucking planet.


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## natmoon (Sep 18, 2007)

On the original topic i believe in the microcosm/macrocosm theory,which one you are just depends on your point of view really


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 19, 2007)

natmoon said:


> On the original topic i believe in the microcosm/macrocosm theory,which one you are just depends on your point of view really


These are very varied theories, particularly microcosm. This is very similar, if not the same thing to which I myself believe. I have stated on this site many times that I believe ALL life is related, and started from a single strand of protein. I mean all life too, insects, dogs, pigs, even plants and trees. I realise that microcosm expands much further on this... in fact it goes so far as to say we are the planets too, the moons the suns... 

Inside our bodies right now are billions of life-forms living within us, we are the whole universe to billions of these life-forms. When we die, so does a Universe.


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## natmoon (Sep 19, 2007)

My point exactly so to know the secrets of the universe you only have to look inside yourself


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 19, 2007)

natmoon said:


> My point exactly so to know the secrets of the universe you only have to look inside yourself


Again, if you look through some of my earlier posts in religion-type threads you would see that I have preached this many, many times. People have asked me how I can KNOW there are no gods, and I have told them the truth is within me, as it is within us all. All we need to do is ADMIT it.


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## Token (Sep 19, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Again, if you look through some of my earlier posts in religion-type threads you would see that I have preached this many, many times. People have asked me how I can KNOW there are no gods, and I have told them the truth is within me, as it is within us all. All we need to do is ADMIT it.


, Indeed


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## natmoon (Sep 19, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Again, if you look through some of my earlier posts in religion-type threads you would see that I have preached this many, many times. People have asked me how I can KNOW there are no gods, and I have told them the truth is within me, as it is within us all. All we need to do is ADMIT it.


Maybe God is just an incorrect misunderstood term for the collective of every thing that exists in every dimension all at once and we are all a part of that thing,albeit a small part.

I don't believe in doctrine written by barbarians thousands of years ago but i do believe that something,what ever that may be,was the first,how this could be is beyond my understanding.

It is always a mistake to say that you know anything as you are far to small to know as you cannot see the big picture


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 19, 2007)

natmoon said:


> It is always a mistake to say that you know anything as you are far to small to know as you cannot see the big picture


How do you know?


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## natmoon (Sep 19, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> How do you know?


I know that you are to small to see everything that exists i.e. you cannot see the big picture because you are to small therefore you cannot know what does or does not actually exist and even if you could see it you would not be able to comprehend the information that your eyes received as your brain is to small.

The real question is how did the big bang occur,from dust blah blah etc.,where did the dust come from,from space blah blah,where did space come from blah blah,its an unanswerable?

Now im not saying anything about religion or gods but i am saying that we are incapable of comprehending the real beginnings of life the universe and everything because it is just to big


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 19, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> have asked me how I can KNOW there are no gods, and I have told them the truth is within me, as it is within us all. All we need to do is ADMIT it.


 
how do you know ?


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 19, 2007)

I think u follow that sciencetology religon it look$


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## Token (Sep 19, 2007)

natmoon said:


> I know that you are to small to see everything that exists i.e. you cannot see the big picture because you are to small therefore you cannot know what does or does not actually exist and even if you could see it you would not be able to comprehend the information that your eyes received as your brain is to small.
> 
> The real question is how did the big bang occur,from dust blah blah etc.,where did the dust come from,from space blah blah,where did space come from blah blah,its an unanswerable?
> 
> Now im not saying anything about religion or gods but i am saying that we are incapable of comprehending the real beginnings of life the universe and everything because it is just to big


I think the big bang came from another star collapsing creating a black hole where everything was compacted so small and explodes into plasma which gave the energy for the big bang


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## natmoon (Sep 19, 2007)

Token said:


> I think the big bang came from another star collapsing creating a black hole where everything was compacted so small and explodes into plasma which gave the energy for the big bang


Yeah maybe,but where did that first star come from?


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## mastakoosh (Sep 19, 2007)

god created the first star lol.


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## natmoon (Sep 19, 2007)

mastakoosh said:


> god created the first star lol.


And where did god come from if there is a god?


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 20, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> People have asked me how I can KNOW there are no gods, and I have told them the truth is within me, as it is within us all. All we need to do is ADMIT it.





natmoon said:


> It is always a mistake to say that you know anything as you are far to small to know as you cannot see the big picture





skunkushybrid said:


> How do you know?





natmoon said:


> Now im not saying anything about religion or gods but i am saying that we are incapable of comprehending the real beginnings of life the universe and everything because it is just to big


Now, I believe you are confused. So, either we are too small to KNOW ANYTHING, or we can know things. I know there are no gods just as I know there are no fairies (don't know how many times I've said that on these boards), or monsters under the bed/in the closet. I also know there is no Santa Claus.

Peopla are afraid of death, this is the main driving force behind belief in gods and their various heavens. Someone dies, we want to believe they are somehow still around. Either playing a harp in heaven, or just hovering about as a ghost, making sure everyone's alright.

I live my life by common sense, it rules me. Like I said, I KNOW magical creatures (in as much as fairy tales and religion would have us believe) do not exist... We all know.


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## Token (Sep 20, 2007)

The Universe!, there is constantly stars and galaxies collapsing and creating plasma beam that shots out from the center where gravity is so dense that everything comes together in a fusion of all matter making energy.


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## Token (Sep 20, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Now, I believe you are confused. So, either we are too small to KNOW ANYTHING, or we can know things. I know there are no gods just as I know there are no fairies (don't know how many times I've said that on these boards), or monsters under the bed/in the closet. I also know there is no Santa Claus.
> 
> Peopla are afraid of death, this is the main driving force behind belief in gods and their various heavens. Someone dies, we want to believe they are somehow still around. Either playing a harp in heaven, or just hovering about as a ghost, making sure everyone's alright.
> 
> I live my life by common sense, it rules me. Like I said, I KNOW magical creatures (in as much as fairy tales and religion would have us believe) do not exist... We all know.


I personally think it has to do with social control, because the time Religions started popping up when man kind started to make some what of societies and wouldn't take long to see that with out fear of judgement when your died many would murder and rape because they had no police force until later on.


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 20, 2007)

Token said:


> I personally think it has to do with social control, because the time Religions started popping up when man kind started to make some what of societies and wouldn't take long to see that with out fear of judgement when your died many would murder and rape because they had no police force until later on.


That's about it. It was about clever MEN wanting to control less intelligent men more easily. Even today, belief in this god is wielded by our governments in an effort to control the masses.

Although they have other methods today, something far more powerful... even than religion. That enemy, is the media.

You are the newspaper you read.


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## natmoon (Sep 20, 2007)

I am not confused dude and i also know that father xmas is a myth,lmfao.
My point is just that if you know where the universe came from and who or what actually made it please let me know because i am not saying that you personally have a small brain i am saying that the universe is so vast we could never hope to be able to take in all of the information even if we could see it all at once and i think being able to see it all at once is the only real way we could understand it properly and even then it would take an eternity and by then it would have changed again.

Also i am not saying there is an all powerful god being that floats on a cloud with a trumpet waiting to judge us all and send us to hell,what i am saying is that life the universe and everything that we know must have been begun by some kind of intelligent entity that exists outside of our existential plain because something like a universe cannot come from nowhere and nothing and does not just pop up like the tooth fairy.

I personally am not a member of any kind of organized religion but i do believe that something created everything.

I am also pretty sure that it would not have time or the inclination to watch us all the time and make judgments over us and i agree that the bullshit that they spiel is probably the first attempt at a big brother is watching you society to create control as you said.

However i do believe in physics and i do believe that a universe doesn't just pop up out of nowhere and nothingness,my common sense and logical progression leads me to believe that it is something that was created for whatever purpose i do not know,but it must have been created.

This obviously leads us again to the term "The Creator" and before your back comes up i must agree with you about this fact that there are as many gods for as many different creatures that exist throughout this galaxy and they all think that their god is the real god and the rest of us must be heretics.

So my real point is that i think there is probably one supreme being that does exist that created everything and is completely beyond our realm of understanding or even our dimension.
It is highly likely that our universe is a by product of his/her/its experimentation with energy's and matter and it is also highly likely that he/she/it has little or no knowledge that we even exist.

As to the matter of dying i believe in physics and physics states that you cant really destroy energy and i think that my willpower/personality is transmutable and made up of energy and that all though my body will certainly perish my persona/id/soul whatever will move on,probably to another body,because this is where the id/persona energy lives,in minds.
I don't believe that it really matters what brain,human,pig,cow,sheep just a bit like moving your data from an old hard drive to a new one.

Anyway this is just my personal beliefs and observations and i don't wish to shove it down anyones throat like some kind of doctrine it is totally up to the individual what he or she chooses to believe


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## Token (Sep 20, 2007)

"I personally am not a member of any kind of organized religion but i do believe that something created everything."
And that's it, laziness I'm hoping there is something controlling whats about to happen in me and everyone else. 

We have scientists that are looking farther then ever before and what if God Is The Universe but not all powerful maybe it's kinda like how the native indians believe but on a much grander scale.


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## Token (Sep 20, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> That's about it. It was about clever MEN wanting to control less intelligent men more easily. Even today, belief in this god is wielded by our governments in an effort to control the masses.
> 
> Although they have other methods today, something far more powerful... even than religion. That enemy, is the media.
> 
> You are the newspaper you read.


And now days they use TV to control us also, I was watching this network FX over here and they show all the time cop shows and car chases, what do you think that does to people mind, pretty much i think why they have cop shows it to make the masses think that the cops can get every crime and criminal which we all know is Bullllllllllllllllll Shitttttttttttt


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 20, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> That's about it. It was about clever MEN wanting to control less intelligent men more easily. Even today, belief in this god is wielded by our governments in an effort to control the masses.
> 
> Although they have other methods today, something far more powerful... even than religion. That enemy, is the media.
> 
> You are the newspaper you read.


 
Skunk every thing u do in your life is through control , the clothes u were and the image u choose for your self all comes from the tv or some music image the food u choose to eat u are taught to like and also the things u dislike are taught to you at a very young age the sports football ect if u were an american kid you would be taught to like baseball or somthing every thing so that must make every 1 stupid huh  

Skunk if you seem to be so sure that theres no god you should be the smartest man in the hole world through generations ,,,,

This 1 might start trouble but if i was born into a relgion that some crazy king made his own virson so he could get married again i wouldent believe it eather ,,, but all the other accent wise men tell the same tail in there books with the same people followed from every race ,,
Ive no reson to believe in god becoz of some of the bad shit happened to me but u get what ya give and like u say u just know theres no god ,, well i just know there is strange but true ,,,,


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 21, 2007)

natmoon said:


> As to the matter of dying i believe in physics and physics states that you cant really destroy energy and i think that my willpower/personality is transmutable and made up of energy and that all though my body will certainly perish my persona/id/soul whatever will move on,probably to another body,because this is where the id/persona energy lives,in minds.
> I don't believe that it really matters what brain,human,pig,cow,sheep just a bit like moving your data from an old hard drive to a new one.


OK. So this would indicate that their are no new personalities. If all the old ones never die and turn into pigs and shit, maybe even plants... why do you eat bacon, etc?

New personalities are born every day just as old ones die, just as yours will too one day die. Scary thought, I know... but that's life, or rather, death . 

But to think that my dogs personality, (maybe he was a human being in a previous life, maybe he was JFK, or maybe he was an ant) is anything other than the personality of a dog is ridiculous.

If it were the case that animal personalities could be born into different animal shells this world would be in chaos.


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## natmoon (Sep 21, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> OK. So this would indicate that their are no new personalities. If all the old ones never die and turn into pigs and shit, maybe even plants... why do you eat bacon, etc?
> 
> New personalities are born every day just as old ones die, just as yours will too one day die. Scary thought, I know... but that's life, or rather, death .
> 
> ...


Look your dog in the eye and tell me he is not *alive*
Look your dog in the eye and see that he has *feelings*.
Look your dog in the eye and see that he is the same as you in a different skin,alive with feelings and needs.

The world is in chaos and i do not profess to know how new personalities may be born or where they may come from but i do know of many old souls.

I think you are an old soul but you are angry/frustrated about something.

I never meant that we turn into pigs as such but i suppose in life the only real way to learn anything is to do and be everything that is.
As to eating meat i agree i am a yin and yang person i beleive that whether we like it or not there are both energys in this universe positive and negative both are required or space would simply explode as would your tv if you removed the negative or positive wire.

Look at your plug,negative,positive and earth these are the 3 that are needed for life to exist.

So yes i do things that i know are negative,i have to eat so i kill smaller/dumber mammals that cannot complain and have no rights.
If is see a bug on my plants,he just was starving and wanted a few bites to eat yet i kill him for it like scum when he was just hungry.
I kill my maryjane plants so i can set fire to them for my own benefit.
All of these things are negative things that i knowingly do everyday but this is life and im of the belief that we all go through it


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 21, 2007)

No skunk a personalitie is not born mann 

You learn that or are taught it at a very young age also, just like how you are taught how 2 speak english becouse of were u were born , 

Your personallitie is also taught to you at a young age from parents bro,s sis,s friends and tv


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## Token (Sep 21, 2007)

Personality is part of the society you live in.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 21, 2007)

No Every person in every society has a diffrent personilty from what imput goes in there brain from the people they look up 2, father, pop idol ,sports star local thug lol and when kids mingle with other kids they learn personility scence of humor peoples personilty forms as thing they do and things that happen to them and will constantly change untill then 

One things for sure we are all from the 1 race and that is The human race no 1 would have any of these thoughts, theorys, beliefs, ect unless we have heard it , taught it or what ever and every 1 has there choice of the views. No one has right or wrong answer just are thought views and beliefs 

One day we all all find out thats another thing 4 sure but untill then im going 2 smoke a few fat 1s and chill da fuk out 


Keep it safe ....................  
Shoot


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 22, 2007)

I understand how various societies help create the personality we have... but let's forget about human beings, and lets concentrate on the creature that used to be a monkey but is now a dog.

If it is the case that personalities NEVER die, what about the poor dog that remembers being a monkey (it happens all the time with humans, where they remember other lives)? This is the chaos I was referring to. For it wouldn't just happen to one animal at a time, but millions, maybe even billions (when you count insects) all over the world. I'll admit it is often the case where humans appear to have maybe been amoebas in a previous life, but to think that it actually happens doesn't stand up to common sense.

A shark, meandering along in the ocean suddenly remembers its past life as a horse, what's going to happen. Would this change the shark? What would it do with this memory? Sharks are not as intelligent as we are. Something like that (if it were real) happening to billions of life forms all over the planet... this is the chaos to which I refer.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 22, 2007)

Fuck id hate 2 get time and be doubled up with you skunk 

ya sure cant waffle some crap lol 

take it easy maan 

Peace shoot


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## natmoon (Sep 22, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> I understand how various societies help create the personality we have... but let's forget about human beings, and lets concentrate on the creature that used to be a monkey but is now a dog.
> 
> If it is the case that personalities NEVER die, what about the poor dog that remembers being a monkey (it happens all the time with humans, where they remember other lives)? This is the chaos I was referring to. For it wouldn't just happen to one animal at a time, but millions, maybe even billions (when you count insects) all over the world. I'll admit it is often the case where humans appear to have maybe been amoebas in a previous life, but to think that it actually happens doesn't stand up to common sense.
> 
> A shark, meandering along in the ocean suddenly remembers its past life as a horse, what's going to happen. Would this change the shark? What would it do with this memory? Sharks are not as intelligent as we are. Something like that (if it were real) happening to billions of life forms all over the planet... this is the chaos to which I refer.


I understand your theory but i cannot ignore physics,i do not believe that you really take your memory with you,your personality is not your memory your memories are not who you are.

The best way i think i can describe it is that the part of you that carries on is that small diamond that makes you you and dejavu is possibly caused when your Id sees something it has seen before but its not a real memory just a faded feeling from your self of being there before.

I do not profess to know what is really true its just a bit of philosophy combined with a little bit of science and to be honest with you every bone in my body aches living seems to be the hardest thing to me,dieing is easy apart from the emotional pain for those i will leave behind not to mention my own emo pain when i have to say that final goodbye to them.

So no im not making up philosophy's because im scared of death its just that i really believe that we do have souls for want of a better word and i hope that mine will carry on,i like to think that maybe we are reincarnated as what we need to be and i like to think that when we are in a state of in between that we choose this ourselves as we are the only ones that really know what we need to experience and learn,whether this be as the spider catching the fly or the fly being eaten it is always relative to what we need to learn,probably lol


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## Token (Sep 22, 2007)

natmoon said:


> I understand your theory but i cannot ignore physics,i do not believe that you really take your memory with you,your personality is not your memory your memories are not who you are.
> 
> The best way i think i can describe it is that the part of you that carries on is that small diamond that makes you you and dejavu is possibly caused when your Id sees something it has seen before but its not a real memory just a faded feeling from your self of being there before.
> 
> ...


You just have to teach yourself to be able to let go of everything and everyone then you may see that souls and god are just comforting tools to give people meaning in there routine lives


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## natmoon (Sep 22, 2007)

Token said:


> You just have to teach yourself to be able to let go of everything and everyone then you may see that souls and god are just comforting tools to give people meaning in there routine lives


Actually i am talking about physics and the fact that you cant destroy energy.
Surely you would agree that my energy is also energy so how can i be destroyed if its not possible in this universe to destroy energy?
Please note that i am not a religious flake i base my thoughts and opinions on the facts that are available as well as any spiritual needs that i may or may not have.

And to be honest i think that most of the people that choose to believe that there is nothing do so because it is actually them that is scared.
They is shit scared of an afterlife and what may or may not happen to them.

It is so easy to go around thinking that you can do whatever you like with no consequences and all though i don't believe in the hell concept as depicted by the bible and other such material i do believe that the universe balances itself because it is made up of energy that requires a perfect balance,most people call this karma,i just call it cause and effect,if you keep adding negative to others balancing scales negative will be added to yours,eventually


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 23, 2007)

natmoon said:


> So no im not making up philosophy's because im scared of death its just that i really believe that we do have souls for want of a better word and i hope that mine will carry on,i like to think that maybe we are reincarnated as what we need to be and i like to think that when we are in a state of in between that we choose this ourselves as we are the only ones that really know what we need to experience and learn,whether this be as the spider catching the fly or the fly being eaten it is always relative to what we need to learn,probably lol


 
Sweet. I'd like to think all that too. Have actually said to myself that I'd really love to be able to believe in this kind of thing. 
I am just as afraid of death as the next man... it's a shame, it really, really is... but there is no life after DEATH.


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 23, 2007)

shoot2kill, you know I can read your deleted posts? 

Thanks mate.


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## natmoon (Sep 23, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Sweet. I'd like to think all that too. Have actually said to myself that I'd really love to be able to believe in this kind of thing.
> I am just as afraid of death as the next man... it's a shame, it really, really is... but there is no life after DEATH.


I like the way that you have highlighted my words to make me look like a flaky religious knob.

As i said before no one can profess to know anything,unless of course they are arrogant,assuming and presuming kinds of people.
I say hope because saying i know is also presumptuous,i say i like to think for this same reason.

Saying i know would make me a preacher which is exactly what you sound like,the only difference is that you are preaching total atheism and i am just having a conversation about what may or not be


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 23, 2007)

natmoon said:


> It is so easy to go around thinking that you can do whatever you like with no consequences and all though i don't believe in the hell concept as depicted by the bible and other such material i do believe that the universe balances itself because it is made up of energy that requires a perfect balance,most people call this karma,i just call it cause and effect,if you keep adding negative to others balancing scales negative will be added to yours,eventually


Now this is where I'm at. KARMA. 

This isn't some extraneous force. This is our own conscience, but more our subconscious minds. KARMA is us, our dreams... our guilt. We WILL bad things to happen to ourselves, in an effort to repay our 'sins'.

The mind is EVERYTHING. I believe that the most powerful thing on the planet is the human brain. I enjoy too, the notion that energy never COMPLETELY dissipates, as it sits well with my all empowering human-brain theory. 

Have you ever felt a connection (mentally) with another human being? Almost as though for brief moments you are inside their head? Maybe a line? Some sort of energy line that passes through the air from mind to mind. We just need to tap into it, learn how to, teach ourselves. What I'm suggesting is tantamount to mind-reading, yet more akin to empathy.

Also, I go further with the power of the human mind. I believe we can use it to cheat death. Our minds are in control of every part of our body. Our bodies in fact are merely just a house (a temple, if you will) for our mind. As without the body the brain is too weak to survive. Yet while we control our arms, legs and whatever else at mere whim, we tend to forget about the rest of our bodies.

With your brain you have the power to see inside yourself. I believe too that we can even control how we react to certain illnesses. I believe, that if you believe you are going to die, then you will.

The brain is always the last thing to die (in normal circumstances), all we really need is a new body. You just haven't got long to get put in one (as our brains can't move on their own), and then get all wired up. Maybe in the future, you'll be able to buy new body shells just as you would a house.


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## natmoon (Sep 23, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Now this is where I'm at. KARMA.
> 
> This isn't some extraneous force. This is our own conscience, but more our subconscious minds. KARMA is us, our dreams... our guilt. We WILL bad things to happen to ourselves, in an effort to repay our 'sins'.
> 
> ...


Woohoo lol something i totally agree with,almost
How big is the biggest thing and how small is the smallest thing,how big are you really?


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 23, 2007)

natmoon said:


> I like the way that you have highlighted my words to make me look like a flaky religious knob.
> 
> As i said before no one can profess to know anything,unless of course they are arrogant,assuming and presuming kinds of people.
> I say hope because saying i know is also presumptuous,i say i like to think for this same reason.
> ...


Your first paragraph is completely off the mark. I underlined your words to emphasise that you like to think these things just as everyone else does, as I do too. 

Your second paragraph, do you KNOW santa claus does not really drop presents down people's chimneys? Do you KNOW that there is no tooth fairy? Do you know you're alive? Do you KNOW that a chimpanzee can use tools, and hunt with tactical deployments of troops? That they hunt for meat? Do you know what the date will be tomorrow? Does KNOWING all of this make me a preacher?

So what if I am preaching total atheism? The conversation is not about preaching. To my mind the conversation thus far is about belief in the fandangled.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 23, 2007)

thanks for banning me 4 a day skunk so i couldent say my piece lol

But every thiing that you say in just input that u let into your brain a theory that you choose to believe that you, have heard ............

And the post i deleted just says you winn skunkl 

Becoz u think every thing u say is right becoz u are a mod and mybe had a few Successful grows that dont mean shit your just a dope smoker like us all puff that joint up there maan and spin some more crap lol 

If Albert Enstine dident no im afraid you dont eather ya wanna get of that ego trip mann or your just going 2 fall harder when the time comes 

all your doing is trying to make people believe what u have watched on tv its only your poin of view man so why are u so sure ???


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## natmoon (Sep 23, 2007)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> thanks for banning me 4 a day skunk so i couldent say my piece lol
> 
> But every thiing that you say in just input that u let into your brain a theory that you choose to believe that you, have heard ............
> 
> ...


You were banned for talking?
Oh well i wont bother anymore then


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## Token (Sep 23, 2007)

natmoon said:


> Actually i am talking about physics and the fact that you cant destroy energy.
> Surely you would agree that my energy is also energy so how can i be destroyed if its not possible in this universe to destroy energy?
> Please note that i am not a religious flake i base my thoughts and opinions on the facts that are available as well as any spiritual needs that i may or may not have.
> 
> ...


yes you can't destroy energy but it can get pasted on by the circle of life, you die your body decomposed the grass eats your remains some animal eats the grass


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 24, 2007)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> thanks for banning me 4 a day skunk so i couldent say my piece lol
> 
> 
> > WTF are you talking about???????? I was only here in the morning yesterday.
> ...


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 24, 2007)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> And the post i deleted just says you winn skunkl
> 
> Becoz u think every thing u say is right becoz u are a mod and mybe had a few Successful grows that dont mean shit your just a dope smoker like us all puff that joint up there maan and spin some more crap lol
> 
> ...


In regards to the first part I have underlined: I know, and I said thankyou. I can read your deleted posts.

To the second... WTF?

To the 3rd, Einstein didn't know a lot of things.

The last: I do not watch TV, or at least very, very little. I actually cannot stand the thing, it makes me ill.

I did not ban you shoot2kill, what makes you think you were banned? Could it have been when rollitup was changing to a new server?

You could call me names, I'd merely argue back... I wouldn't ban. Some other mod' would come along and close the thread. That's it. This is an over 18 forum, we're all adults. I would not ban anyone for saying anything. That's just plain ridiculous.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 25, 2007)

Ok Skunk It Might Of Been The Server This Time But U Usually Ban Me And Check Up My Ip Addy Once Ya Dont Get Your On Way Lol As Ya Do 

Ya Dont No Nothing So Stop Actting Like Some Big Shot Lol
Yesss All Your Theorys Are Just Input U Let Into Your Brain And U Think That Its Right No Maan That Dont Make It Right Just Becoz U Are The Smartest Maan In The World And Watched Some Scenceoligy Prog On Tv

Yip Its For Over 18.s And To Me U Seem Bearly Over 18 With Them Bullshit Theorys And Your Bullshit Attidude That Think He Knows Every Thing About Every Thing 

Puff That Joint Up There Man 

Einstine And Every Onther Genis Throught History Counld Explane God Or Write Him Of But U Can Do It Lol


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 26, 2007)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> Ok Skunk It Might Of Been The Server This Time But U Usually Ban Me And Check Up My Ip Addy Once Ya Dont Get Your On Way Lol As Ya Do
> 
> Ya Dont No Nothing So Stop Actting Like Some Big Shot Lol
> Yesss All Your Theorys Are Just Input U Let Into Your Brain And U Think That Its Right No Maan That Dont Make It Right Just Becoz U Are The Smartest Maan In The World And Watched Some Scenceoligy Prog On Tv
> ...


What's your problem shoot2kill? I banned you once for 48 hours, that's it. And that was because you had multiple handles. I warned you first, then you join up again under a different handle no more than 48 hours after I warned you. ONCE, for a transgression. Where do you get usually from?

I checked you out because you were using a new handle to send me fucked-up pm's. That's when I investigated this new guy, and found out it was you.

Usually? Does one time count as usually?

There isn't anything, someone like yourself, could say to me that would make me ban you. Saying things is not breaking the rules. Not to my mind, anyway. A couple of the other mod's would ban you in a second.

The part I underlined... I seem barely over 18? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 26, 2007)

My problem was you saying what people believe in is full of crap thats what annoyed me and thats the reason why i say you just over 18 becoz thats when ya think you know every thing and the generations b4 know nothing like you know and all the other thing u think u just solved that no 1 else can ........ thats why i think so 

If people believe in god let them im sure even if they are wrong its a better way 2 live your life why must some 1 tell them that they are full of crap becouse they choose to live a better life than half the scum running about 

skunk u banned me about 3 times becoz of your girly ego fits and the message i sent u was wind your neck in becoz of ur crying like a girl again lol and u asumed i was a jail bird for saying them words so u wanted to check my ip addy


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 26, 2007)

SHOOT2KILL66 said:


> My problem was you saying what people believe in is full of crap thats what annoyed me and thats the reason why i say you just over 18 becoz thats when ya think you know every thing and the generations b4 know nothing like you know and all the other thing u think u just solved that no 1 else can ........ thats why i think so
> 
> If people believe in god let them im sure even if they are wrong its a better way 2 live your life why must some 1 tell them that they are full of crap becouse they choose to live a better life than half the scum running about
> 
> skunk u banned me about 3 times becoz of your girly ego fits and the message i sent u was wind your neck in becoz of ur crying like a girl again lol and u asumed i was a jail bird for saying them words so u wanted to check my ip addy


3 times? Oh, I see, you're counting the extra handles too. 

the rest of your post is pure anger, anger at not being able to explain your belief in this god of yours, angry because deep, deep down YOU KNOW it's all bullshit.

If people in these threads can profess belief in these gods, then I too can help show them how, logically, they are wrong. I look for common sense, for logic... there is no logic in believing fairy tales are real. This is why people like yourself will never be able to debate properly on this subject. So instead of debate, you resort to telling me how I shouldn't do this or that. Pathetic.

I understand TRUTH, many people hide from its abrasiveness and it's highly honed cutting edge, but I prefer to face it... no matter how raw it presents itself. The truth is very unforgiving, it cares not what you really want to believe. You may be able to hide yourself from it, create a shield to protect yourself from ever facing it full-on... but it will rest, right there in the pit of your stomach... the next time you crush a bug, think about whether it is going to a heaven to live on as an angel bug. Think about the question carefully, for the truth is within you.


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 26, 2007)

Im not angry at all man your the angry 1 

Tell me then whats the truth and how do u know its true ?

So i search with in myself and i find out if theres a god or not .. or is it what i choose to make of it and what i will believe in .?? 

skunk thats just the same bullshit your saying over and over it still dont prove shit just becoz u went into deep thought after a smoking session dont mean jack 

As i keep saying all that is , is input that u let into your brain and thats what you want to believe

the only thing im sure of is bullshit crap you keep typing and thinking u are so sure i never says im 100% sure there is a god and i dont want no 1 to believe in 1 coz i says so .. so how can u be sure ..


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 26, 2007)

One day you will understand...


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## Erniedytn (Sep 26, 2007)

*




*


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## SHOOT2KILL66 (Sep 26, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> One day you will understand...


 
I do understand im the content 1  Ive found my inner peace man lol


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## natmoon (Sep 26, 2007)

Skunkushybrid do you believe that Jesus existed?
And do you have any opinions on whether he did actually heal people with cannabis oil?

I personally believe that Jesus did exist and that he was enlightened and anointed and that they killed him for saying things that they did not agree with and for giving the sacred oils to the poor.
I believe that cannabis oil does have many healing properties and combined with an individual who is very clever and enlightened cannabis is also very powerful.

I would also like to say that i respect your right to atheism and i would never try to shove my beliefs down your throat.
I am thinking that this is what has been done to you and you seem to be sick of it.

To many fake Christians/Muslims/Hindus,the list of faiths could be long so i wont bother,have tried to force their beliefs onto people which is very wrong and has angered many and the true message has been lost.

I like to think that the the real bible should have read:
God created man and gave him _free will_ and then he buggered of somewhere else being so busy and all and let man get on with it because he had given us _free will._
A few thousand years went by and God popped back in to see whats up and he saw a right bloody mess so he sent Jesus in to try to sort it out and they killed him.

The only few passages actually written by Jesus in Aramaic have been removed from the bible and declared as basically bullshit by the Vatican,i wonder why that is then.

Anyway i know that you choose to believe in nothingness and i will respect that but i do wonder if you have been blinded to the simplicity of what may have really been by others trying to force religion down your throat


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## skunkushybrid (Sep 26, 2007)

Of course Jesus existed, it was a very popular name back then... still is today in certain parts of the world.

I also believed that the man spoken of in the bible also existed... although nobody knows what he got up to till the age of 30, it is documented that his preferred company was thieves and whores.

Jesus liked to preach... he preached a lot and people listened, they liked him, soon began to fall in love with his charasmatic charm.

The romans were not as against christianity during this period of history as all the old films would have us believe. In fact there were actually romans practising this new religion themselves.

So they used him, the romans and jewish elders used Jesus to keep the populace under control. Jesus started getting too big for his boots, maybe started drinking too much... hitting the old honey oil etc etc... Then he starts opening his mouth just a little too much, he gets word that the romans are going to kill him, and he does one... gets on his toes. Judas grasses him up, and the rest is bullshit history. 

That whole book is a load of crap. 

What makes you think that because i know your god, or any gods don't exist that i believe in nothingness? Typical really of all you creationists.


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## natmoon (Sep 26, 2007)

skunkushybrid said:


> Of course Jesus existed, it was a very popular name back then... still is today in certain parts of the world.
> 
> I also believed that the man spoken of in the bible also existed... although nobody knows what he got up to till the age of 30, it is documented that his preferred company was thieves and whores.
> 
> ...


Dude you once again profess to know things that you cannot know for sure,i can sense your fury from here,i _know_ that you are angry with religion.
I guess that i cannot deny being someone who believes that the universe was created by something.
Your depiction of Jesus being a pissed up fool is amusing to me
It would seem to me that most of your knowledge comes from others writings and what you have chosen to believe.
What is it exactly that you think that you have worked out for yourself?
And can you please enlighten me as to when and how you worked out all of the secrets of the universe


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## _secret (Oct 4, 2007)

let me toss in the curve ball

Lets say religion hasnt been established yet, and you live in the world you do today minus religious beliefs. Now what would you say if a man named jesus was walking around telling everyone that a man parted seas, and that someone created a big boat that housed every single creature on earth inside. OH and what if he told you that you couldnt go to heaven if you had sex? yeah OKKK, i might go for that. By todays standards, he woulda been tossed in a mental home... well they didnt have those, so he got crucified... and honestly, why the hell would anyone want the cross that they died on to symbolize and represent everything that they stand for??

now what about the other religions who believe in gods.. how many gods are there?! i thought there was only one?!?! and if so, which is the one true god? cmon now.

I think im gonna start taking heavy doses of LSD and come up with my own god and relgious beliefs


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## natmoon (Oct 4, 2007)

_secret said:


> let me toss in the curve ball
> 
> Lets say religion hasnt been established yet, and you live in the world you do today minus religious beliefs. Now what would you say if a man named jesus was walking around telling everyone that a man parted seas, and that someone created a big boat that housed every single creature on earth inside. OH and what if he told you that you couldnt go to heaven if you had sex? yeah OKKK, i might go for that. By todays standards, he woulda been tossed in a mental home... well they didnt have those, so he got crucified... and honestly, why the hell would anyone want the cross that they died on to symbolize and represent everything that they stand for??
> 
> ...


Any man that thinks that a God would be able to verbalize his commands to us is as dumb as a man that thinks he can talk to atoms.
Who knows what Jesus really said and what they said he said,they may well be 2 different things


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## preoQpydDlusion (Oct 4, 2007)

when reading the bible you may notice jesus never claimed to be the son of god. most of the christian dogma isn't even based on the holy bible


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## Dfunk (Jul 20, 2008)

What was this thread about?


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## BreatheSmoke (Jul 24, 2008)

Token said:


> is anybody else watching it?, i toke astronomy in high school, it was way cool.
> 
> this show is trapping me out talking about galaxies, each galaxy has has 100billion stars and each star is a sun. the milky way is in a super massive blackhole!


Not only that... But there are billions of other galaxies besides our own. Some deep shit to fathom, eh? The Universe is a good show, but I loved watching Carl Sagan's Cosmos when it used to be on. Even though it's old as hell...


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## Dfunk (Jul 24, 2008)

You can see Cosmos on youtube!


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## BreatheSmoke (Jul 24, 2008)

Dfunk said:


> You can see Cosmos on youtube!


Full episodes?


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## Dfunk (Jul 24, 2008)

10 minute parts I believe, but when one part is over it picks right up.


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## BreatheSmoke (Jul 24, 2008)

Dfunk said:


> 10 minute parts I believe, but when one part is over it picks right up.


Niceeee .. Works for me! Now I don't have to buy the whole set.. Although I probably will anyway because I doubt YouTube has all of the episodes.


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## bl33b (Jul 25, 2008)

love that show, if anyone is really interested in that sort of thing look up The Teaching Company they have dvd's and cd's from the nations best professors on all kinds of topics, my favorites are physics and astronomy


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 25, 2008)

_*The milky way supposedly has a supermassive black hole at its center...it's not IN one.*_


Token said:


> is anybody else watching it?, i toke astronomy in high school, it was way cool.
> 
> this show is trapping me out talking about galaxies, each galaxy has has 100billion stars and each star is a sun. the milky way is in a super massive blackhole!


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## bl33b (Jul 25, 2008)

HA! not to be mean but that is funny


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## Token (Jul 25, 2008)

Stoney McFried said:


> _*The milky way supposedly has a supermassive black hole at its center...it's not IN one.*_


my dad thats what i meant


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 25, 2008)

_*Gotcha.*_


Token said:


> my dad thats what i meant


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## Token (Jul 25, 2008)

bl33b said:


> love that show, if anyone is really interested in that sort of thing look up The Teaching Company they have dvd's and cd's from the nations best professors on all kinds of topics, my favorites are physics and astronomy


Have to take alook at that, thanks

,

Token


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