# Defoliation the first few leafs



## harrythehat (Mar 26, 2021)

Day 21 Time has come to defoliate
With a plant looking more like a cabbage have removed first 4 leaves from each plant allowing side arms to come through 
Before and after pics


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## BucketGrower (Mar 26, 2021)

I usually would tuck those big leaves under instead of removing them. I hope your ladies don't mind. Good luck!


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## TheDifferenceX (Mar 26, 2021)

You missed a few leaves.


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## Relaxed (Mar 26, 2021)

I got no idea why you did pull all of em. no reason why you would need em...


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## xtsho (Mar 26, 2021)

Those side branches would grow without removing those leaves. What you've done is reduced the amount of energy those small plants can produce through photosynthesis.


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## harrythehat (Mar 26, 2021)

Have always defoliated it's more a case of having to than wanting too.
Plants don't seem to have any problems with it.
They will need it again pretty soon.
You can see on this first plant it's so frikkin tight it needed it.

The second plant not so much so. But the side arms have jumped overnite with the extra light.

Only using a 150 watt Quantum board 
Light is 24 inches and there still not stretching


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## twentyeight.threefive (Mar 27, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Have always defoliated it's more a case of having to than wanting too.
> Plants don't seem to have any problems with it.
> They will need it again pretty soon.
> You can see on this first plant it's so frikkin tight it needed it.
> ...


Those plants weren't even close to "having" to remove leaves. Focus on getting them healthy instead of pulling off leaves.


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## Wattzzup (Mar 27, 2021)

OP I think you’re mixed up. Day 21 of flower not veg.  It will look different and make more sense on day 21 of flower.


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## bk78 (Mar 27, 2021)

:facepalm:


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## bk78 (Mar 27, 2021)

I think you meant to post in noobie section, this is the advanced section sir.


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## Relaxed (Mar 27, 2021)

Will he listen to anyone... This is so advanced jts just wrong.


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## harrythehat (Mar 27, 2021)

twentyeight.threefive said:


> Those plants weren't even close to "having" to remove leaves. Focus on getting them healthy instead of pulling off leaves.


Thanks for the reminder unfortunately having bipolar can forget what I've done 30 seconds after doing it.
It's getting warmer and didn't reset the water heaters.
Sorted now and there a better green already.
There will be a whole load more defoliation to come don't worry.


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## harrythehat (Mar 28, 2021)

Gently simmering the roots @26c is not a good idea heaters are now off and a better sheen to the leaves today.
Back in a week or so for a whole load more of what you lot don't like DEFOLIATION.


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## twentyeight.threefive (Mar 28, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Gently simmering the roots @26c is not a good idea heaters are now off and a better sheen to the leaves today.
> Back in a week or so for a whole load more of what you lot don't like DEFOLIATION.


It's not that everyone doesn't like defoliation, it's more the fact that your plants don't require it. You are pulling off leaves just to pull off leaves.

Like I said before you should focus on getting them healthy instead of pulling off leaves that should stay.


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## Rurumo (Mar 28, 2021)

Defoliation at such a young age is a bad idea and is simply not needed. There is a reason why people defoliate at the end of veg and early flower. The plant's roots have filled out its final container by then and it has enough mass that clipping a few leaves won't slow down its growth at all. Clipping those huge leaves on such a tiny plant with a small root system will only reduce its growth.


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## harrythehat (Apr 14, 2021)

Having a BP attack over what was happening with the plants took a while to suss out.
A combination of winter to summer changeover keeping water heaters in and not changing to air heating made a bigger mistake broiling the roots for a month didn't do them good. Making them nutrient sensitive had to drop E.C to 1.6/1.8 to get roots growing again
Was not a good idea just using inch rockwool to start them as they fell over as well LOL resorted to some Chinese scaffolding to hold them up should have used 3 inch blocks but hey ho off we go. Anyway took nearly three weeks to get them better.
Bitch is now have one way bigger than the rest.
Defoliation will start on that gal


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## harrythehat (Apr 14, 2021)

Had a little tidy up taking leaves away that are covering the upcoming flowering heads before and after
Changed the growing angle of the plant bottom leftas the big mother may cover.


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## harrythehat (Apr 17, 2021)

Time has come for a bit of a sort out got a nest in the big Mutha and the other nearest on the left done a bit of LST on the big ones back arm taking it away from the back plant 
This will be regular every few days now. It's not a case of wanting to more having too.


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## Wastei (Apr 17, 2021)

Mutilating a young plant like that is very counter productive. This has no place in the advanced section TBH.


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## harrythehat (Apr 17, 2021)

Wastei said:


> Mutilating a young plant like that is very counter productive. This has no place in the advanced section TBH.


That's your opinion. No problem. 
If the plants are left it gets totally impenetrable so I defoliate plant doesn't have a problem with it nor do I.


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## Kush Inc. (Apr 17, 2021)

What Wastei said is not an opinion. It is FACT. 

Defoliating your plants is the process of removing leaves to allow more light and airflow to reach your buds. It is done to a healthy and established plant right before flipping to 12/12 and/or 3 weeks in flower. Not to a fricking seedling.

You just screwed with plants in a phase of their life where they should be growing, not dealing with dimwits randomly chopping off their leaves for no reason whatsoever.

What you did is not defoliating. It's just mucking about. And it has no place in the advanced section.


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## harrythehat (Apr 18, 2021)

What you should really do is shut your trap and watch C what happens
Twat


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## harrythehat (Apr 18, 2021)

This was them after defoliating
This is them 3 days later all grown back and nearly ready for a bit more.
Wether you like it or not I will continue this defoliation thread.
Watch you may learn something.

Growing on my system is totally different from what you are using and you can argue about that as well if you wish.


Kush Inc. said:


> What Wastei said is not an opinion. It is FACT.
> 
> Defoliating your plants is the process of removing leaves to allow more light and airflow to reach your buds. It is done to a healthy and established plant right before flipping to 12/12 and/or 3 weeks in flower. Not to a fricking seedling.
> 
> ...


That is exactly what am doing removing leafs to allow bud sites through there was a nest of leaves in each plant defoliated if you look you will C.

Defoliation is needed and not a want.
These plants can take and love what I do to them


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## go go kid (Apr 19, 2021)

i have aspergers spectrum and know what you are dealing with, i found it better to start with one or two plants and to write down things down as you go, that way when/after an attack, you still know what you have doe, why you have done it and whats to do next

paper and pen are your tools to perfection


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## harrythehat (Apr 19, 2021)

go go kid said:


> i have aspergers spectrum and know what you are dealing with, i found it better to start with one or two plants and to write down things down as you go, that way when/after an attack, you still know what you have doe, why you have done it and whats to do next
> 
> paper and pen are your tools to perfection


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## harrythehat (Apr 19, 2021)

What caused my attack was not being able to suss where the problem was. And totally confused the brain for a while as it was a combination of issues.
Temperature differences changing over from winter to summer. Leaving water heaters in rather than changing to air heat.
This broiled the roots taking the little laddery bits of making them nute sensitive and they were running 2.0 EC. This held them tight still seen in the back plant on the left.
Dropped the E.C. to 1.6/1.8 now there fine and all got over it now with exception to the back plant on left though she is coming through now. 
Your right about pen and paper yes I do sometimes.


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## go go kid (Apr 19, 2021)

its especaly usefull with hydroponics, i can see why you chose it as a metod for growing, one tank being used for multiple plants less to confuse the brain. and avoid stressing yourself out.
i chose soil to continue growing in, i find its less stressfull, you dont have to keep checking things like ppm ec ph temps ect. just keep good records, that way you can avoid most [problems by writing down differant issues you may encounter.and looking back at issues and solutions, pardon the pun.
good luck with the grow and most importantly, enjoy


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## Tvanmunhen (Apr 19, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> This was them after defoliating
> This is them 3 days later all grown back and nearly ready for a bit more.
> Wether you like it or not I will continue this defoliation thread.
> Watch you may learn something.
> ...


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## harrythehat (Apr 19, 2021)

go go kid said:


> its especaly usefull with hydroponics, i can see why you chose it as a metod for growing, one tank being used for multiple plants less to confuse the brain. and avoid stressing yourself out.
> i chose soil to continue growing in, i find its less stressfull, you dont have to keep checking things like ppm ec ph temps ect. just keep good records, that way you can avoid most [problems by writing down differant issues you may encounter.and looking back at issues and solutions, pardon the pun.
> good luck with the grow and most importantly, enjoy


When I built this kit it was devised to be fuss free.
My top up routine.
25 ml of A 25 ml of B in a bucket filled with 5 litres of water.
Chuck this in tank check EC an hour later job done.
There's no need to check P.H. using self PHIng nutrient is near enough.
Check it next day leave till next fill up LOL dead easy nothing to confuse
Enjoy. Boy I love my plants.


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## go go kid (Apr 19, 2021)

when you take your readings, ph ec ppm tds whatever you want to call it. take them at the same time every day, ph fluctuates during the day, so makingb sure you test every morning sat the same time if possable, this will save you many ph problems. dont ask me why when were controling the enviroment we grow in, its something to do with mother nature


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## Severed Tongue (Apr 19, 2021)

This is when I take clones 


It grows back in 2-3 weeks.


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## harrythehat (Apr 19, 2021)

go go kid said:


> when you take your readings, ph ec ppm tds whatever you want to call it. take them at the same time every day, ph fluctuates during the day, so makingb sure you test every morning sat the same time if possable, this will save you many ph problems. dont ask me why when were controling the enviroment we grow in, its something to do with mother nature


Hi I don't bother with P.H. don't have a problem with it a self PH InG nutrient brings it to around 7 and it's sweet as there.
threw PH meter away years ago.
All I use is a truncheon check it an hour after filling up check it next day. It's the only number I follow 
Itt can go ridiculously high 28/30 and it still does not burn roots.
Why does it not burn the roots.
Because my equipment carries an Abiotic stress elicitor in the way it works.
Yes it's a static generator in a growing machine.
It's theory comes from the hanging gardens of Babylon.
Fabled to grow big plants LOL 
It grew fuckin massive plants 

Boy I will probably get slatted to fuck for stating this LOL 
Do I give a flying fuck.
Hell no watch and C what happens
Then slate me off


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## go go kid (Apr 19, 2021)

selp ph'ing nutes, they hav come a long way since i first read about them, gives me hope for my experiment this summer
never herd on Abiotic stress elicitor b 4, ya learn something new each day on this site, i love it


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## harrythehat (Apr 19, 2021)

go go kid said:


> selp ph'ing nutes, they hav come a long way since i first read about them, gives me hope for my experiment this summer
> never herd on Abiotic stress elicitor b 4, ya learn something new each day on this site, i love it


Living soil and LED lights have both been given Elicitor status


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## Wastei (Apr 19, 2021)

There's no self pHing nutrients. You have cation exchange agents but that's a whole other thing. 

That being said I only pH adjust once when I do res changes. But I'm not fooling myself saying my formula is "pH perfect". To not bother to monitor pH and adjust it to optimal is probably the worst practice you can have in hydro. 

You leave out the most important tool and variable for developing and understanding and optimizing your nutrient requirements? I don't advice anyone doing that TBH, sure the plant will grow but without actual data and proper monitoring how do you know you're actually improving on your methods? Cheers!


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## harrythehat (Apr 19, 2021)

Wastei said:


> There's no self pHing nutrients. You have cation exchange agents but that's a whole other thing.
> 
> That being said I only pH adjust once when I do res changes. But I'm not fooling myself saying my formula is "pH perfect". To not bother to monitor pH and adjust it to optimal is probably the worst practice you can have in hydro.
> 
> You leave out the most important tool and variable for developing and understanding and optimizing your nutrient requirements? I don't advice anyone doing that TBH, sure the plant will grow but without actual data and proper monitoring how do you know you're actually improving on your methods? Cheers!


The nutrient I am using Growers Arc state. Buffered with nitric acid for a more stable PH. Minimum adjustment required. Have found 7. Comparable for the plant.
Don't get me wrong 20 years ago I used to faff about getting 6.1 but TBH no adjustment didn't seem to make a difference.
So out went the P.H meter.
P.H is blamed way to much it may be more crucial in other systems but not mine.

LOL have only just started to use a truncheon again was just using makers recommend and a bit less for top ups. And watching the plants
Then needed numbers for records again finding
OMG numbers up way too high but didn't affect the plants. Strange innit LOL.
But that is the effect static has it protects the plants in more ways than one.
Bitchin thing is it cannot be measured. Well there is an actual static meter but I don't think it can measure in this environment as it's only the positive being produced.
How do I know static is produced?
From previous experiments where the static was used incorrectly. It quarterises the roots and makes the plants dance to there death.
Yep so I knows it's there.


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## Wastei (Apr 19, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> The nutrient I am using Growers Arc state. Buffered with nitric acid for a more stable PH. Minimum adjustment required. Have found 7. Comparable for the plant.
> Don't get me wrong 20 years ago I used to faff about getting 6.1 but TBH no adjustment didn't seem to make a difference.
> So out went the P.H meter.
> P.H is blamed way to much it may be more crucial in other systems but not mine.
> ...


Well you do you. But you can't expect other people to take you seriously without monitoring your work. Pictures are nice and all but without proper data it's just a penis measuring contest IMO. 

I think you're a little to much self entitled as a person and your setup, growth rates and practices shows this throughout. You're pretty easily scuffed and don't like people questioning and debunking your methods.


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## harrythehat (Apr 19, 2021)

Wastei said:


> Well you do you. But you can't expect other people to take you seriously without monitoring your work. Pictures are nice and all but without proper data it's just a penis measuring contest IMO.
> 
> I think you're a little to much self entitled as a person and your setup, growth rates and practices shows this throughout. You're pretty easily scuffed and don't like people questioning and debunking your methods.


That's fine if you think I'm a bigot that's your opinion
Unfortunately BP does make me a little volatile certainly don't mind questioning but debunking and slating off without knowledge I disapprove of and will receive the harsher edge of my tongue


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## Star Dog (Apr 19, 2021)

Needless waste, a fine example of removing leafs purely for the sake of removing them, idk why you would think that's beneficial. 


Kush Inc. said:


> What Wastei said is not an opinion. It is FACT


My thoughts exactly!


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## Tvanmunhen (Apr 22, 2021)

Hey harrythehat how are you and your girls doing today! Just thought I'd pop by and say hi!


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## harrythehat (Apr 22, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> Hey harrythehat how are you and your girls doing today! Just thought I'd pop by and say hi!


Thanks for the Hi. 
Well one side is doing great.
The other I made another fuck up and there pulling back again LOL.
The root broiling has made roots sensitive to nutrient. With three different staged plants in this tank. the middle one was rocking along. But needed some nutes. Added some bringing it back up too 1.8/2.0 which I thought would be a ok. But no
Bitch I burnt the roots for 48 hours. Silly arse I normally spot when a plant drops its leaves an sort it this time I didn't 
Dropped the nutes back to a remidial 1.4/1.6 and it's getting it's colour back. But lost part of an arm 
It will be fine when flowering time comes in about a week.

The other tank is banging along. Purposely leaving it a few days to show what they get like if you don't defoliate 
will post an update tomorrow.


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## Tvanmunhen (Apr 22, 2021)

Nice can't wait to take a peak! I'm sure they will be beautiful and you will get nice dank!


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## harrythehat (Apr 23, 2021)

Tank on left over nuted for two days killing of a few leafs. It's coming back after 4 days of remidial 14/16 EC 
Right hand tank there banging away now.
Gave them 6 days to build a bit of leaf as you can see it's pretty mobbed out with some leaves 3 deep 
As far as I'm concerned needing a defoliate


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## harrythehat (Apr 23, 2021)

Defoliated!
Know you traditional boys will hate this.
But in 5 days it will be mobbed out and need doing again


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## Tvanmunhen (Apr 23, 2021)

Enjoying the show there buddy! Keep on keeping on! You make me nervous with those scissors btw lmao. I'm sure if I sent my girl to your house she'd get a major haircut.


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## harrythehat (Apr 24, 2021)

Know it may look drastic
But can assure you it's nessecery if the girls were left any longer major stretch happens under the canopy (there's been a bit anyway)
your lady might get a cut if it grew leafage the same way.
Scissors what r they LOL fingernails are quicker an more accurate


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## Tvanmunhen (Apr 24, 2021)

I cut my brother s hair once...he beat my ass and locked me out of the house lol not a good barber.. do your fingers taste like booger and bud??


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## harrythehat (Apr 24, 2021)

More like sticky fingers and something to taste later like after making love. LOL OMG 2012 was the last time think have forgotten how to do that.
I use one of those hair trimmers. 1/8 cut all over can't really cock that up too much


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## harrythehat (Apr 24, 2021)

Put a search in here. This was the term.

Shade leaf removal 
Most threads showed beneficial 
Very much contrary to what others are saying.
So In Fact 
There is no FACT about shade leaf removal 
Is there?


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## Tvanmunhen (Apr 25, 2021)

I found this interesting!








Defoliation: Myth vs Science


It may surprise you to hear, that there is a small but very dedicated group of cannabis farmers who are convinced they can increasing their crops by removing ALL the big leaves in the flower cycle. Believers in this myth call the technique Schwazzing.




www.linkedin.com


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## harrythehat (Apr 25, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> I found this interesting!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Join you on that one.
Have found, removal of early fan leaves allows the bottom arms to come up and a lot of times there taller than what would be the top cola that can be seen on these plants. Plant support is on the centre yet side arms are already taller. 
My thoughts are.
Plant releases an adrenaline type like we do. Fight or flight when leafs are cut/ broken off. This goes into growth if the leaf is not there to repair. Shurley?


Once defoliation starts with my plants it goes on pretty much most all the flowering period as well save the last couple of weeks. You may think WTF does all that leaf come from. Have had this laughed at and plenty of abuse for just saying it. LOL have a Abiotic stress elicitor inbuilt in my system and using another in the way of LED as that also has ASE status.
Time and the show will tell.

Something else to look at. Light.
To me now it's electromagnetic energy waves 
HTF does a spider fly over Everest. It positively charges a section of its web it floats up and over. How does it get down with moisture and negatively charging the web. Clever fookers could teach NASA something I'm sure.
A bit off topic but it's all about energy waves not light.
So with purer forms in the way of LED can we get away with less wattage.
Going to be interesting seeing what GPW comes back with 30 watts per plant on this cheapo Quantum board.
With a lot more countries allowing cannabis there will be better documentation of what is good and what's not so good for the plants and our yields.

Will shade leaf removal make it into the annuls,
Go on I reckon so.

Shame the UK is still illegal.


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## Wastei (Apr 25, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> With a lot more countries allowing cannabis there will be better documentation of what is good and what's not so good for the plants and our yields.


This is pretty self explanatory. I think the main issue is you live in "Harryland" where you say one thing but act out another. I don't think you have the patience and capacity to read any studies, you're just practicing broscience buddy.


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## Tvanmunhen (Apr 25, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Join you on that one.
> Have found, removal of early fan leaves allows the bottom arms to come up and a lot of times there taller than what would be the top cola that can be seen on these plants. Plant support is on the centre yet side arms are already taller.
> My thoughts are.
> Plant releases an adrenaline type like we do. Fight or flight when leafs are cut/ broken off. This goes into growth if the leaf is not there to repair. Shurley?
> ...


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## Tvanmunhen (Apr 25, 2021)

Not sure how I mucked up that reply for if you got that link but I thought this one was a little interesting but also off topic. It's a controlled experiment the dabels in the effects of stress and flower cycle!








(PDF) Increasing Inflorescence Dry Weight and Cannabinoid Content in Medical Cannabis Using Controlled Drought Stress


PDF | Controlled application of drought can increase secondary metabolite concentrations in some essential oil-producing crops. To evaluate the effects... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate




www.researchgate.net


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## crimsonecho (Apr 25, 2021)

if you want side branches to grow you should pluck the upper leaves that shades them


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## bk78 (Apr 25, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> There is no FACT about shade leaf removal
> Is there?



Yeah 

it’s called photosynthesis


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## bk78 (Apr 25, 2021)

crimsonecho said:


> if you want side branches to grow you should pluck the upper leaves that shades them


Ummm no

Leaves are what power those side branches to grow 

where do people read this trash from?


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## Wastei (Apr 25, 2021)

bk78 said:


> Yeah
> 
> it’s called photosynthesis


Plant matter, physics and color spectrum is probably WAY different in "Harryland". Maybe you get a golden ticket after you plucked all the "leafs"?


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## harrythehat (Apr 25, 2021)

bk78 said:


> Yeah
> 
> it’s called photosynthesis


Thought ALL the leaves do photosynthesis. Strangely enough


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## crimsonecho (Apr 25, 2021)

bk78 said:


> Ummm no
> 
> Leaves are what power those side branches to grow
> 
> where do people read this trash from?


umm the side branches have leaves too and when they get direct light they tend to grow faster taking off 2 leaves will not leave the plant powerless or anything

this is personal experience not something i read


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## twentyeight.threefive (Apr 25, 2021)

crimsonecho said:


> umm the side branches have leaves too and when they get direct light they tend to grow faster taking off 2 leaves will not leave the plant powerless or anything
> 
> this is personal experience not something i read


Dude is pulling leaves 21 days in the grow. Very advanced techniques.


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## bk78 (Apr 25, 2021)

crimsonecho said:


> umm the side branches have leaves too and when they get direct light they tend to grow faster taking off 2 leaves will not leave the plant powerless or anything
> 
> this is personal experience not something i read


K


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## bk78 (Apr 25, 2021)

twentyeight.threefive said:


> Dude is pulling leaves 21 days in the grow. Very advanced techniques.


But bro the branches grow faster without the larger leaves that trap the most light 

duh


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## crimsonecho (Apr 25, 2021)

twentyeight.threefive said:


> Dude is pulling leaves 21 days in the grow. Very advanced techniques.


i’m not talking about how advanced his technique is seeing how N toxic and bloated that upper leaf set is i’d rather pluck them and let the side branches grow. taking off 2 leaves is no big deal it’s gonna bounce back in a day.


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## harrythehat (Apr 25, 2021)

crimsonecho said:


> i’m not talking about how advanced his technique is seeing how N toxic and bloated that upper leaf set is i’d rather pluck them and let the side branches grow. taking off 2 leaves is no big deal it’s gonna bounce back in a day.





twentyeight.threefive said:


> Dude is pulling leaves 21 days in the grow. Very advanced techniques.


Thank you for noticing something different is happening here


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## harrythehat (Apr 25, 2021)

Here's a couple of days from the defoliation.
Put side-by-side do u can C the difference.
Oh yes they do bounce back a bit lively.
Leaf is already 3 deep in places
Back on Thursday ish for another session


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## Tvanmunhen (Apr 26, 2021)

When do you plan on Flipping those critters?


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## harrythehat (Apr 26, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> When do you plan on Flipping those critters?


Got to wait till the other girls are going for it. Reckon about another week then 4 of them should be around 15 inches there currently just over 10 inches the big one closer to 20


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## Tvanmunhen (Apr 26, 2021)

Can't wait to see some frosty nug porn!


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## harrythehat (Apr 26, 2021)

The left hand tank has started to move again. to give the girls a Kickstart. Had a little session removed most of the N toxic leafs of the back plant and a thin out on the other two. Could do the other tank but will leave that till Thursday for a bit more growth.


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## rkymtnman (Apr 27, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Added some bringing it back up too 1.8/2.0 which I thought would be a ok


i thought you said with your "flow" technique, you'd never burn your plants at any EC? and what pH are you running at now too?


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## rkymtnman (Apr 27, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Thank you for noticing something different is happening here


Turn up the trickle bro. the secret is in my signature. The power is in the flow. Thank you. Once you have turned up the flow you can dial in your nutes with a good flow 2.0 EC is easily achievable. 

_but you just burnt yours at 2.0, bro. not enough flow maybe??_


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## Wastei (Apr 27, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i thought you said with your "flow" technique, you'd never burn your plants at any EC? and what pH are you running at now too?


Harry is so advanced to even bother monitoring or adjusting pH. I would really like to live in his fairytale world where EC is important but pH isn't. Plants don't even need leaves in "Harryland", go figure!


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## rkymtnman (Apr 27, 2021)

Wastei said:


> Harry is so advanced to even bother monitoring or adjusting pH. I would really like to live in his fairytale world where EC is important but pH isn't. Plants don't even need leaves in "Harryland", go figure!


i didn't want to post in his journal but i'm glad i saw this thread of his.


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## harrythehat (Apr 27, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i didn't want to post in his journal but i'm glad i saw this thread of his.


Your welcome to come over to the journal your going to have to in a min as this thread will discontinue and carry on there.
you no I don't bother with P.H. LOL.
Roots have been broiled for 26 days this has made them nutrient sensitive this time. It's not a problem as you can see right hand tank is now going for it left hand tank has responded well. Which will be seen tomorrow.

You can react against what I am doing I don't have a problem with that.
Remember though.
Whatever you write. You could be eating your words.

But if you come on here and start slating I will fuck you off quicker than enough, simples.


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## harrythehat (Apr 27, 2021)

Wastei said:


> Harry is so advanced to even bother monitoring or adjusting pH. I would really like to live in his fairytale world where EC is important but pH isn't. Plants don't even need leaves in "Harryland", go figure!


Yep your spot on there. P.H. is no problems.
E.C is the only critical number. But you do not have to believe it. Can only show and tell you how I top up and run my system unfortunately you cannot be here to witness. Bit of a shame really as you would be biting your lip a bit quick.
M8 if you notice am only defoliating what is needed.
Watch on and you may learn something


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## harrythehat (Apr 28, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i thought you said with your "flow" technique, you'd never burn your plants at any EC? and what pH are you running at now too?


Don't believe I said never at any EC
Broiling of roots made them sensitive. This time! and why I burnt roots on left tank making them damaged twice. 
I don't mind owning up to a cock up.
Saw it's leaves drop and didnt take the hint they got cooked for a further 48 hours.
In a way it's better as it will show damaged plants can be brought back and still give a decent yield
current EC left tank 1.4 right 1.6 may not go back to 2.0 this time either.


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 28, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> In a way it's better as it will show damaged plants can be brought back


so you messed them up on purpose? or you messed them up and now you're looking on the bright side? 

what's your pH?


----------



## bk78 (Apr 28, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> so you messed them up on purpose? or you messed them up and now you're looking on the bright side?
> 
> what's your pH?


Isn’t that how this works? You try and slow down growth as much as you can so your crop takes 6 months from seed to harvest?


----------



## xtsho (Apr 28, 2021)

How is hacking up your plants Advanced Marijuana Cultivation?


----------



## harrythehat (Apr 28, 2021)

bk78 said:


> Isn’t that how this works? You try and slow down growth as much as you can so your crop takes 6 months from seed to harvest?


 not normally


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## harrythehat (Apr 28, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> so you messed them up on purpose? or you messed them up and now you're looking on the bright side?
> 
> what's your pH?


Not on purpose don't need to look on brightside as know they will come back and be ok. JHC have crucified them far more than this in the past LOL
PH haven't a clue


----------



## harrythehat (Apr 28, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> so you messed them up on purpose? or you messed them up and now you're looking on the bright side?
> 
> what's your pH?


Not on purpose don't need to look on brightside as know they will come back and be ok. JHC have crucified them far more than this in the past LOL
PH haven't a clue


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 28, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> PH haven't a clue


no meter? or drops? how can we verify any of your results with muddled and or incomplete data?


----------



## harrythehat (Apr 28, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> no meter? or drops? how can we verify any of your results with muddled and or incomplete data?


Nope no meter for P.H or drops. Self PHIng nutrient used straight out of the bottle.
My top up routine is this simple. Put X amount of A and X amount of B into X amount of water. Check and adjust EC in an hour if needed. JOB DONE!.
A few months ago it was even easier with Growth technologies Ionic nutrient put X amount from bottle into X amount of water. But they have discontinued it. Bitch!.

As with anyone else you can believe or disbelieve.
Know what my equipment is doing is beyond what anything else can do As you will see as this thread continues in my journal.

Am quite happy to send a system for someone else to verify. With guidence IF! they needed it.
Have only one available.ATM.
It's old an battered as it's been used for nigh twenty years but it works.
Being the starter of this sensible Q. You have first option on it if you want it.


----------



## harrythehat (Apr 28, 2021)

Pictures don't want to load over here for some reason. Your welcome to follow in my journal.
Any questions will be answered there
Happy growing.




__





The Hat is back


Hi all Back to start again. This time using a system I designed and developed then shelved in 2007 awaiting more legal times. It will be relaunched as a 6 plant unit to keep in with US regulations. NTT is the technique. Light is a Quantum board. Seeds from Sensi seeds. There Sensi Skunk 55 day...



www.rollitup.org


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## Wastei (Apr 29, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Nope no meter for P.H or drops. Self PHIng nutrient used straight out of the bottle.
> My top up routine is this simple. Put X amount of A and X amount of B into X amount of water. Check and adjust EC in an hour if needed. JOB DONE!.
> A few months ago it was even easier with Growth technologies Ionic nutrient put X amount from bottle into X amount of water. But they have discontinued it. Bitch!.
> 
> ...


I've had a friend like you once Larry. He also thought he was all that and believed to be living on another planet than everybody else. Didn't need to check EC or pH because he "had everything already figured out".

He's a fucking joke and only grew mids. He's also one of those self entitled narcissistic kind. Want all the praise but doesn't do any proper work because he's self entitled ego keep telling him lies.

Just because a plant is green and is growing doesn't mean it equates to richness in plant tissue. And like @rkymtnman mentioned you can't be taken seriously with your reasoning and malpractices. You're free to live in Broscience land where you haven't learned basic survival skills like listening to others, reflect and show appreciation. Stay in the same place while everybody else keep improving? That's boring isn't?


----------



## Tvanmunhen (Apr 29, 2021)

So did I miss something here this dude is just trying to grow shit the way he grows it! I don't see him on this site demanding everyone fucking pay because I know everything! But I doo see you all fucking but hurt because your knowledge is not necessary for him! Good for you bro you know everything you have exposed him now fuck off somewhere else and spam some noob like me or someone else.


----------



## Wastei (Apr 29, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> So did I miss something here this dude is just trying to grow shit the way he grows it! I don't see him on this site demanding everyone fucking pay because I know everything! But I doo see you all fucking but hurt because your knowledge is not necessary for him! Good for you bro you know everything you have exposed him now fuck off somewhere else and spam some noob like me or someone else.


He's a poster who give out bad advices to newcomers. He's a beginner who believe he got everything figured out after just a few runs. That's why we bash him, because he's a lying poster who want all the praise and following for no work. Sad.


----------



## Tvanmunhen (Apr 29, 2021)

I get what your saying but no one made you the protector of new growers, us new growers need all info good bad and ugly. We learn from our mistakes is this not how you got where you are? You got to understand that the way you are going about this is only making you look like a disrespectful immature person and I'm sure that is not who you are.


----------



## Tvanmunhen (Apr 29, 2021)

Does this make your pinching fingers itchy larry! I know you want to pluck just a few huh?lol


----------



## Wastei (Apr 29, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> I get what your saying but no one made you the protector of new growers, us new growers need all info good bad and ugly. We learn from our mistakes is this not how you got where you are? You got to understand that the way you are going about this is only making you look like a disrespectful immature person and I'm sure that is not who you are.


I got where I am from following people who actually monitor their work properly and got results to show for themselves. Without proper data this is just a penis measuring contest.


----------



## Tvanmunhen (Apr 29, 2021)

I'm sorry I agree data is king! Problem is what is considered valid data? To me data is only fact when done in a controlled manner! Which botanist, horticulturist, lab technician chemist did you learn from? Do you by chance have some of their data to share? Perhaps you could acknowledge that actual scientific data is fairly new in the cannabis industry are you sure you have all the answers? Now let me get this straight I'm not saying Harry here has all the answers but what makes you think you do?


----------



## Tvanmunhen (Apr 29, 2021)

Sorry harry for hijacking your thread much respect I'm done now!


----------



## harrythehat (Apr 29, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> Does this make your pinching fingers itchy larry! I know you want to pluck just a few huh?lol


Yes I would be in there pinging a few leafs here an there LOL


----------



## harrythehat (Apr 29, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> Sorry harry for hijacking your thread much respect I'm done now!


No problems.


----------



## harrythehat (Apr 29, 2021)

Wastei said:


> I got where I am from following people who actually monitor their work properly and got results to show for themselves. Without proper data this is just a penis measuring contest.


All I can say is watch on you will see something different your opinion will change.
If you want to be venomous. I will be quite frank. Fuck off and do it elsewhere.
Can only put up the work that I do. To which you can or not believe.
Have offered your mate an old system if he doesn't want it your welcome to trial it at no cost to yourself


----------



## Wastei (Apr 29, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> All I can say is watch on you will see something different your opinion will change.
> If you want to be venomous. I will be quite frank. Fuck off and do it elsewhere.
> Can only put up the work that I do. To which you can or not believe.
> Have offered your mate an old system if he doesn't want it your welcome to trial it at no cost to yourself


I try to be true to myself and my fellow growers. I don't just do a Google search and repeat someone else's statements and work.


----------



## harrythehat (Apr 29, 2021)

Wastei said:


> I try to be true to myself and my fellow growers. I don't just do a Google search and repeat someone else's statements and work.


Nor do I!!
Don't know where the Google search came into the conversation but hey I will swing with it for a mo.
I use all my own work certainly don't use others words to compliment my equipment as you will see if you want to stay or would you rather be a troll? And eventually blocked entirety up to yourself


----------



## harrythehat (Apr 29, 2021)

Wastei said:


> I try to be true to myself and my fellow growers. I don't just do a Google search and repeat someone else's statements and work.


Can you point out this Google search where I have used others work?


----------



## Wastei (Apr 29, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Can you point out this Google search where I have used others work?


Sure can do! Well we can start with your relabelling of proven hydro techniques. I've seen you call NFT "nutrient trickling technique" and referring to the hanging gardens in Babylon?

You will find all your "statements and work" in this article. https://www.quantumhydroponicservices.net/about . It's more or less a straight copy paste from your part.

If you actually check the source of posted info on that site it refers to a paper from 1922. I mean we've come a long way since then and I believe you can find any written source to prove your point. That doesn't mean its true or have practical application.


----------



## Star Dog (Apr 29, 2021)

I got all my defoliating done.


Maybe the odd awkward one during flower.

They're root balls at the back not naked plants lol...


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 29, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Self PHIng nutrient used straight out of the bottle


that's not what you told me before. you said ph didn't matter in your grow. it could be 4 or 7 and it wouldn't matter. you also said with your technique you could feed tiny seedlings 2EC w/o burning which we now know is bullshit. 

which is why i led you down this path: i figured you knew your ph was in range. 

caught you again, mrs hat. 

set your pH at 4 for the next 2 weeks and let's see if pH matters or not.
and no thanks, i don't want your old set-up. mine works just fine as is.


----------



## bk78 (Apr 29, 2021)

I defoliated on the weekend 

Took a little much for my liking.


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## harrythehat (Apr 29, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> that's not what you told me before. you said ph didn't matter in your grow. it could be 4 or 7 and it wouldn't matter. you also said with your technique you could feed tiny seedlings 2EC w/o burning which we now know is bullshit.
> 
> which is why i led you down this path: i figured you knew your ph was in range.
> 
> ...


M8 I do not set my PH I use a self PHIng nutrient which brings it down to around 7. Well that's what it used to be when I did bother to check it
Range of PH is as you say anywhere between 4/7
Why would I bother to set my PH lower when it's fine where it is
And I can and do set seeds of @ 2.0 EC. These were indeed started at 2.0 and they got broiled for 26 days which made them nutrient sensitive.
Now I could not give a cunt wether you believe this or not that is what happened then the left tank got a further 48 hours of root burning. Too which now they are pulling back.
Have tried being nice and will continue until you troll.
Then you will be fucked off OK.
If you don't like what you see go and play with your toys, but be careful how you Chuck them out off the pram


----------



## harrythehat (Apr 29, 2021)

Wastei said:


> Sure can do! Well we can start with your relabelling of proven hydro techniques. I've seen you call NFT "nutrient trickling technique" and referring to the hanging gardens in Babylon?
> 
> You will find all your "statements and work" in this article. https://www.quantumhydroponicservices.net/about . It's more or less a straight copy paste from your part.
> 
> If you actually check the source of posted info on that site it refers to a paper from 1922. I mean we've come a long way since then and I believe you can find any written source to prove your point. That doesn't mean its true or have practical application.


NFT is NFT. It cannot be NTT 
Have you not worked that one out yet.?
NFT is nutrient film technique. Which means there is a film of nutrient going across the growing surface. 
N.T.T. is nutrient trickling IE like a small stream or brook.
Have you looked at the equipment.
It's not possible to get a nutrient film in what they use and looks more likely it would be a small stream or brook.
Sort of blows your NFT idea out of the water doesn't it.

Sorry we have come a long way since 1922
Can you explain that?
Maybe DWC and aeroponics may have been developed in that time but the majority is soil in pots is that such a leap in technology?


----------



## Tvanmunhen (Apr 29, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> NFT is NFT. It cannot be NTT
> Have you not worked that one out yet.?
> NFT is nutrient film technique. Which means there is a film of nutrient going across the growing surface.
> N.T.T. is nutrient trickling IE like a small stream or brook.
> ...


----------



## Tvanmunhen (Apr 29, 2021)

Nice looking ladies harry!!!


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## harrythehat (Apr 29, 2021)

bk78 said:


> I defoliated on the weekend
> 
> Took a little much for my liking.
> 
> View attachment 4890277View attachment 4890278


Personally I think it's ok leaves will fill that up again


----------



## harrythehat (Apr 30, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> that's not what you told me before. you said ph didn't matter in your grow. it could be 4 or 7 and it wouldn't matter. you also said with your technique you could feed tiny seedlings 2EC w/o burning which we now know is bullshit.
> 
> which is why i led you down this path: i figured you knew your ph was in range.
> 
> ...


Could you bring up my words that I actually wrote down, and quote them please
Because All I am seeing is you twisting what has been said to suit your own purpose.

Nowhere have I said PH could be run at 4. 
The only times you see PH that low is run off where the substrate has lowered the initial 6.1 yes I have read these threads.

Yes I have said a seed can be started @ 2.0 no problems. Even if I showed you. You would not believe it. Yes I do start my seedlings @2.0 and generally run using those figures. Unless like this time I made a cock up

When you quote bring up the actual words. Not something your mind has hashed together


----------



## harrythehat (Apr 30, 2021)

Here,s a Question.
How many times do you defoliate?
At a guess on this grow my girls will have another
10 sessions left


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## Wastei (Apr 30, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> NFT is NFT. It cannot be NTT
> Have you not worked that one out yet.?
> NFT is nutrient film technique. Which means there is a film of nutrient going across the growing surface.
> N.T.T. is nutrient trickling IE like a small stream or brook.
> ...


You're free to stand in your own corner while everyone else laugh and scratch their head by your reasoning. If supposed "N.T.T" is different from NFT and so much superior. Where's your superior results?


----------



## harrythehat (Apr 30, 2021)

Wastei said:


> You're free to stand in your own corner while everyone else laugh and scratch their head by your reasoning. If supposed "N.T.T" is different from NFT and so much superior. Where's your superior results?


Don't I just know that and I do. Can only say save the venom watch and see.


----------



## twentyeight.threefive (Apr 30, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> You can react against what I am doing I don't have a problem with that.
> Remember though.
> Whatever you write. You could be eating your words.


Your plants in veg look absolutely awful. You expect us to believe they are just going to magically get better and have no issues in flower? If you can't veg a plant correctly they don't stand a chance in flower. Good luck with your advanced growing skills.


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## Wastei (Apr 30, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> NFT is NFT. It cannot be NTT
> Have you not worked that one out yet.?
> NFT is nutrient film technique. Which means there is a film of nutrient going across the growing surface.
> N.T.T. is nutrient trickling IE like a small stream or brook.
> ...


Sure can do, I like history! All major studies regarding plant health and nutrient ratios has been done in the 20th century. The ammonium nitrate business and bounded minerals is relatively new historically and started being manufacturerd by Norsk Hydro in the late 19th and early 20th .

In the early 20th century we gave Cocaine to children's, I think you're the only one not learning from your own past mistakes.

Have you been in a cult or been homeschooled? Seem like you've been living under a rock when I have to explain the technological leaps in the past century? Are you for real Harry?


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 30, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Yes I have said a seed can be started @ 2.0 no problems. Even if I showed you. You would not believe it. Yes I do start my seedlings @2.0 and generally run using those figures. Unless like this time I made a cock up


ok, i see your game hairy. 

i can start my seeds at 5EC. i do it all the time. i've got a lot of flow. just this one i messed up and i burnt them. but you should believe me that i always start my seeds at 5.


----------



## harrythehat (Apr 30, 2021)

Yawn getting boring chaps


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 30, 2021)

the wisdom of Hairy:

Even E.C. is not critical. With a growing plant these numbers can rise 24/26/28 and still not burn the roots. 
_correct. you didn't burn the roots, you burnt the leaves. lmao._


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 30, 2021)

more good stuff from Hairy:

Personally i do not adjust P.H. and dont have any problems it comes in @ 7 and quite happy with that and does not fluctuate with 9 being the upper limit before problems appear.

_please run those tiny plants at pH of 9 for the next 2 weeks, ok??_


----------



## rkymtnman (Apr 30, 2021)

when you kill those plants after running at 9 for 2 weeks, i'll be a good sport and send you a few grams to make up for your lost harvest. deal?


----------



## twentyeight.threefive (Apr 30, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Yawn getting boring chaps


Only thing boring is looking at your poorly vegged plants with no leaves.


----------



## harrythehat (Apr 30, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> when you kill those plants after running at 9 for 2 weeks, i'll be a good sport and send you a few grams to make up for your lost harvest. deal?


Yawn


----------



## Tvanmunhen (Apr 30, 2021)

Perhaps we could get a fresh photo of these terribly veged plants! Thanks!


----------



## harrythehat (May 1, 2021)

Oh go on then 
Was really saving this for defoliation day as there only half grown back.
Girls on left tank r starting to get colour back as well now


----------



## Tvanmunhen (May 1, 2021)

Oh I can clearly see you're not going to get any flowers o geeze look at those super crispy unsavorable plants lol. Should probably just toss them out and start over. It's a shame you have to be such a lying non-PH person Hahaha


----------



## Tvanmunhen (May 1, 2021)

No seriously though glad to see the ladies are going strong good job getting them back on track!


----------



## harrythehat (May 1, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> No seriously though glad to see the ladies are going strong good job getting them back on track!


Thanks for your support.
Quite happy with the way these ladies are coming on
Strangely people don't look at the mistakes and go ooh fuck look there coming back ok after what being killed for a second time LOL 
Yes being throttled twice will probably affect the yield 
What it has done so far is miniaturised the leaves on those plants
So what they yield like is???


----------



## harrythehat (May 1, 2021)

Strange no one wants to answer how many times they defoliate
Am I doing something wrong 
Still have another ten sessions booked. LOL


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## PJ Diaz (May 1, 2021)

I bet they would be green if you adjusted ph.


----------



## harrythehat (May 1, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I bet they would be green if you adjusted ph.


PH has nothing to do with lightness of green
Strangely there colour will go greener if I up the E.C
They are running a remidial 14/16 on right tank
14 on left tank 
Don't want to up EC yet as left tank got broiled and burnt. Right tank just broiled
Going to make sure roots have recovered before I up it.
This grow may stay on a lower than normal EC.
Upping the EC colour would return in a day. So not bothered about that at the mo. There not showing any deficiencies just a nice shiny light green


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 1, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> PH has nothing to do with lightness of green
> Strangely there colour will go greener if I up the E.C
> They are running a remidial 14/16 on right tank
> 14 on left tank
> ...


If you are too far out of range ph will effect ability to uptake nutrients. Your plants look hungry one way or another.


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## PJ Diaz (May 1, 2021)

14 EC? You mean 1.4?


----------



## harrythehat (May 1, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> 14 EC? You mean 1.4?


Yes 1.4 
PH has never been a problem here
PH range is huge with run offs coming as low as 4 and readings as high as 9 before it affects the plants. 
Used to PH but found over the years there is no need
I use a self PH InG nutrient gets it to around 7 ish 
Never had a problem.
They can stay a little hungry for a while
I will up the EC before going into flower


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 1, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Yes 1.4
> PH has never been a problem here
> PH range is huge with run offs coming as low as 4 and readings as high as 9 before it affects the plants.
> Used to PH but found over the years there is no need
> ...


I run 1.3 EC and everything is green.


----------



## harrythehat (May 2, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I run 1.3 EC and everything is green.


Normally I run 1.8/2.0 and have no problems
Right tank currently 1.6/1.8 
Left 1.2/1.4 and greening up


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 2, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Normally I run 1.8/2.0 and have no problems
> Right tank currently 1.6/1.8
> Left 1.2/1.4 and greening up


You might try ph'ing for a run and see the difference. You seen stubborn though.


----------



## Tvanmunhen (May 2, 2021)

Humorous us for science bud! I am a little curious..lol at least give us your readings without adjusting it.That would actually be kinda cool to see the data. Don't really care if you adjust it or not actually rooting for you on that one, but I would like to see the data. I also understand to each their own some people have s*** to do and yada yada so.. thanks for the show!


----------



## harrythehat (May 2, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> You might try ph'ing for a run and see the difference. You seen stubborn though.


Ok next time I will go out and purchase a PH meter and juice will run one PHd and the other out of the bottle


----------



## harrythehat (May 2, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> Humorous us for science bud! I am a little curious..lol at least give us your readings without adjusting it.That would actually be kinda cool to see the data. Don't really care if you adjust it or not actually rooting for you on that one, but I would like to see the data. I also understand to each their own some people have s*** to do and yada yada so.. thanks for the show!


Here's the thing
Have been giving the readings when I change the nutrient 
Trouble is don't have to touch it much between fill ups may check the reading to see if it's using Nutrient or water. 
Sometimes may have to add water if it's not using nute

Once there up an rocking it is a case of 
X amount of nute to X amount of water job done.
Nutrient and water go down pretty evenly
They haven't really started drinking yet
Will take readings each day from now


----------



## Tvanmunhen (May 2, 2021)

Nice!! Good sport! Sorry if you feel bullied into it my bad... I'm just a curious fellow don't really have intentions behind it, but I'm sure others will. Seem like a nice chap even if you don't ph your plants and cut your leafs.


----------



## harrythehat (May 2, 2021)

Ok no time like the present as it's not too late 
PH pen and buffering solutions ordered.
Feck it forgot the pH down LOL.
Will run left tank PHd right tank out of the bottle
And give a full run down.
(Fuck you lot giving me all this extra work)LOL


----------



## harrythehat (May 2, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Ok no time like the present as it's not too late
> PH pen and buffering solutions ordered.
> Feck it forgot the pH down LOL.
> Will run left tank PHd right tank out of the bottle
> ...


PH down ordered and a propshaft for me pick up.
Good ole ebay


----------



## Wastei (May 2, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I run 1.3 EC and everything is green.


I run 0.6 EC max in veg an everything's green. We are clearly doing something wrong aren't we? Let's raise pH to 9 and EC to 3.0, growth probably gonna explode! Lol!


----------



## harrythehat (May 2, 2021)

Wastei said:


> I run 0.6 EC max in veg an everything's green. We are clearly doing something wrong aren't we? Let's raise pH to 9 and EC to 3.0, growth probably gonna explode! Lol!


Clearly what others do still has success.
Yet all you want to do is mock
Why would you want to be a slug this is supposed to be some sort of community isn't it?


----------



## Wastei (May 2, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Clearly what others do still has success.
> Yet all you want to do is mock
> Why would you want to be a slug this is supposed to be some sort of community isn't it?


Problem is you're the only one believing pH to not be the most important variable in hydro. Your plants look like shit but you're still want all the praise posting malpractices in the advanced forum?

You think people with actual experience on here wouldn't notice and point this out? If that's not helping the community I don't know what is? Go stand in your corner.


----------



## harrythehat (May 2, 2021)

Wastei said:


> Problem is you're the only one believing pH to not be the most important variable in hydro. Your plants look like shit but you're still want all the praise posting malpractices in the advanced forum?
> 
> You think people with actual experience on here wouldn't notice and point this out? If that's not helping the community I don't know what is? Go stand in your corner.


Do you really think your meagre words will put me off. 
Will show you PH doesn't matter there's a PH pen on its way. As there only vegging there's plenty of time to do a pretty much full run down will PH one and run as I do with the other.

Come harvest let's see if you can come anywhere near my 150 watts of LED in grams per watt


----------



## Tvanmunhen (May 2, 2021)

You think people with actual experience on here wouldn't notice and point this out? If that's not helping the community I don't know what is? Go stand in your corner.
[/QUOTE]
Lmao you are so helpful! Perhaps you are the only one with actual experience! OR MAYBE most normal people wouldn't be so egotistical to think they need to do this community a favor in this manner....or send people to there corners!!wow you sir need some love in your life. Masterbation, music or human kindness may help!


----------



## Tvanmunhen (May 2, 2021)

I prefer all three at once on the tuff days!


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 2, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> I prefer all three at once on the tuff days!


Do you also not ph your hydro feeds?


----------



## Tvanmunhen (May 2, 2021)

Ooooohnooooo it's checked every time I feed at least twice a day! I always keep a test solution handy usually 4.0 and 7.0. I also use the appropriate measurements and utensils to measure. But here's the thing even though I'm checking my pH doesn't mean I keep it at 5.8 5.6 area that everybody has been yelling at me since I started to do matter of fact I have checked my accuracy on my meter many times for accuracy just to make sure I wasn't f****** things up but believe it or not on this current grow they prefer to be between 6.2 and 6.5 anytime I get near where you guys are telling me to put it my leaves start to taco and starts looking like shit. I am feeding nothing but advanced nutrients a and b at the correct PPM levels I am currently only at 750. I must say when I tried using a high alkalinity my root structure probably wasn't prepared which is fine That's why I waited until one week before I put into flour to try again Guess what happened. No I'm not going to scream till I'm blue in the face to say everyone is wrong for telling me to put it at 5.6 or 5.8 I'll simply just shut my mouth and do more research and try things on my own thanks for the opportunity to explain my process have a nice day


----------



## Tvanmunhen (May 2, 2021)

Matter of fact I'm actually smart enough to realize that I am no professional and have no room to do something stupid like that


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 2, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> Ooooohnooooo it's checked every time I feed at least twice a day! I always keep a test solution handy usually 4.0 and 7.0. I also use the appropriate measurements and utensils to measure. But here's the thing even though I'm checking my pH doesn't mean I keep it at 5.8 5.6 area that everybody has been yelling at me since I started to do matter of fact I have checked my accuracy on my meter many times for accuracy just to make sure I wasn't f****** things up but believe it or not on this current grow they prefer to be between 6.2 and 6.5 anytime I get near where you guys are telling me to put it my leaves start to taco and starts looking like shit. I am feeding nothing but advanced nutrients a and b at the correct PPM levels I am currently only at 750. I must say when I tried using a high alkalinity my root structure probably wasn't prepared which is fine That's why I waited until one week before I put into flour to try again Guess what happened. No I'm not going to scream till I'm blue in the face to say everyone is wrong for telling me to put it at 5.6 or 5.8 I'll simply just shut my mouth and do more research and try things on my own thanks for the opportunity to explain my process have a nice day


What medium are you using? Do you have a lot of successful grows in that ph range?


----------



## Tvanmunhen (May 2, 2021)

So far so good!


----------



## Tvanmunhen (May 2, 2021)

I am using coco


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## Tvanmunhen (May 2, 2021)

With perlite no CalMag!


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## Tvanmunhen (May 2, 2021)

This photo was taken 2 hours after today's feed I tried to check after 2 hours to make sure my plant is happy! Sometimes I can't!


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## PJ Diaz (May 2, 2021)

So this is your first run? I grow in coco/perlite myself.


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## Tvanmunhen (May 2, 2021)

Ph was 6.5 did a feed of 750 ppm sensi a nb


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## Tvanmunhen (May 2, 2021)

Nice feel free to come by my thread it's under good vibes post your girls I'd love to see them. Or just come by to shoot the s*** on there.not fact-based or anything just like watching people grow!!! Sorry harry for the ramble!


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## PJ Diaz (May 2, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> Ph was 6.5 did a feed of 750 ppm sensi a nb


You can sort of get away with that ph range in coco, but it's not ideal. It might not show the real impacts until the last couple of weeks in flowering. I had a run recently that I didn't realize my ph pen was fk'd up until it was too late. That run was ok, but once I corrected the ph issue, the following run of the same strains same feed was night and day difference improvement with proper ph range. In coco/perlite, around 5.8 to 6.0 is generally good.


----------



## Tvanmunhen (May 2, 2021)

And yes first run in Coco!


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## PJ Diaz (May 2, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> And yes first run in Coco!


You'd do well to take the advice of those who have grown in coco for years.


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## Tvanmunhen (May 2, 2021)

Nice lol I'm keep that in mind if any deficiencies show up!


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## PJ Diaz (May 2, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> Nice lol I'm keep that in mind if any *when* deficiencies show up!


FIFY.

The problem is deficiencies will show up at the same time you are over salting your grow medium because the nutrients aren't being taken up by the plants well, resulting in accumulation of nutes in the coco. Good luck. In coco, water early and water often.


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## Tvanmunhen (May 2, 2021)

Oh I definitely listen! And watch, and watch and read and watch and completely agree with you but due to my reading and watching I hate this corner bullshit and people so caught up on who's wrong or Right


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## harrythehat (May 2, 2021)

Wastei
You can give it all the gob.
But you won't answer a direct challenge
Grams per watt you cannot get a fairer way.
Come up to the hokey and play


----------



## Wastei (May 3, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Wastei
> You can give it all the gob.
> But you won't answer a direct challenge
> Grams per watt you cannot get a fairer way.
> Come up to the hokey and play


Grams per watt is what newbies measure by because they don't know all the variables about growing . It wouldn't be a fair fight, you need to get off your high horse and go to the newbies central and learn all the basics. All the best of luck to you Harry!


----------



## Southernontariogrower (May 3, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Day 21 Time has come to defoliate
> With a plant looking more like a cabbage have removed first 4 leaves from each plant allowing side arms to come through
> Before and after picsView attachment 4863069View attachment 4863070


Defoliation teser plant, 2nd week of flower took everything but top 3 nodes. Some 2 nodes.


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## Tvanmunhen (May 3, 2021)

Southernontariogrower said:


> Defoliation teser plant, 2nd week of flower took everything but top 3 nodes. Some 2 nodes.


Was curious do you do this 2nd week for a strategic purpose or do you just do it when it feels correct? Does it have to do with primary growth coming to a stop and girth is beginning? Or just so you see more pistols and what sites need it ? Nice grow!


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## Southernontariogrower (May 3, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> Was curious do you do this 2nd week for a strategic purpose or do you just do it when it feels correct? Does it have to do with primary growth coming to a stop and girth is beginning? Or just so you see more pistols and what sites need it ? Nice grow!


Actually the guy who owns grow shop told me about this years ago, now lve got a fairly monogomous crop, figured id give it a go. I think he said week 3. Not sure.


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## Tvanmunhen (May 3, 2021)

Can't wait to see how she favors! Can you forward me the thread if you got one going?


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## harrythehat (May 3, 2021)

Wastei said:


> Grams per watt is what newbies measure by because they don't know all the variables about growing . It wouldn't be a fair fight, you need to get off your high horse and go to the newbies central and learn all the basics. All the best of luck to you Harry!


Let's go by a way you feel you can win I do not mind.
Can see you don't have the balls for it


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## Southernontariogrower (May 3, 2021)

This is what they look like end of week 3 ish


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## harrythehat (May 3, 2021)

Southernontariogrower said:


> Defoliation teser plant, 2nd week of flower took everything but top 3 nodes. Some 2 nodes.


Blimey careful how you post that one LOL you will get a caning by many.
Nice to see the end result


----------



## Southernontariogrower (May 3, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> Can't wait to see how she favors! Can you forward me the thread if you got one going?


Dont really have one, maybe ill go through my pics and try to put something together. Week 5 looking hot.


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## Tvanmunhen (May 3, 2021)

Wastei said:


> Grams per watt is what newbies measure by because they don't know all the variables about growing . It wouldn't be a fair fight, you need to get off your high horse and go to the newbies central and learn all the basics. All the best of luck to you Harry!





harrythehat said:


> Let's go by a way you feel you can win I do not mind.
> Can see you don't have the balls for it
> [/QUOT
> 
> ...


----------



## Wastei (May 3, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Let's go by a way you feel you can win I do not mind.
> Can see you don't have the balls for it


Well when you're done with mutilating and vegging your sad looking plants for month on end I'm already done harvesting two flowering cycles. I have no time comparing myself to a narcissistic fool.


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## harrythehat (May 3, 2021)

Wastei said:


> Well when you're done with mutilating and vegging your sad looking plants for month on end I'm already done harvesting two flowering cycles. I have no time comparing myself to a narcissistic fool.


Yawn


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## Wastei (May 3, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> Lmao you are so helpful! Perhaps you are the only one with actual experience! OR MAYBE most normal people wouldn't be so egotistical to think they need to do this community a favor in this manner....or send people to there corners!!wow you sir need some love in your life. Masterbation, music or human kindness may help!


To be frankly I don't claim I know jack shit. I think you need that mentality to steadily keep improving on your methods. Search improvements and develop your own tools for your learning process. I have however a very low tolerance for people's lies and people taking credit for other people's work.

That's being true not egotistical. I just want what's best for all medical patients to ease their suffering. Then you have to stay true to scientific knowledge and anecdotal evidence.

Not being like Harry and paint up a picture of yourself on a pedestal and take all the credit for other people's work and make claims you can't back up by data. That's being a lying narcissistic bitch.


----------



## twentyeight.threefive (May 3, 2021)

Wastei said:


> To be frankly I don't claim I know jack shit. I think you need that mentality to steadily keep improving on your methods. Search improvements and develop your own tools for your learning process. I have however a very low tolerance for people's lies and people taking credit for other people's work.
> 
> That's being true not egotistical. I just want what's best for all medical patients to ease their suffering. Then you have to stay true to scientific knowledge and anecdotal evidence.
> 
> Not being like Harry and paint up a picture of yourself on a pedestal and take all the credit for other people's work and make claims you can't back up by data. That's being a lying narcissistic bitch.


When you look at his plants you can see the results of narcissism, coupled with a lack of humility and knowledge.


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## PJ Diaz (May 3, 2021)

I personally don't care what people do with their plants, but personally I do remove leaves twice in flower. Once around 3 weeks in, once stretch has stopped, and again a few weeks later once the buds start fattening up. I don't claim that it improves growth, but I do know that I can pack more bud shoots in the same space with less risk of mold in late flower. I often remember what my College Horticulture teacher told me in lab one day when we were topping up a bunch of plants while doing a bit of root and top pruning, she said "plants love to be cut and torn apart, it makes them come back stronger". In my real world observations, I have to concur. I don't know how many times my wife has freaked out when I'm pruned a rose bush or lemon tree back too far in her eyes. She always gives me shit, then I tell her "just wait a couple of months, and you'll see". Then a couple months later, she says "I like the way you pruned that back now, it grew back so healthy".


----------



## harrythehat (May 3, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I personally don't care what people do with their plants, but personally I do remove leaves twice in flower. Once around 3 weeks in, once stretch has stopped, and again a few weeks later once the buds start fattening up. I don't claim that it improves growth, but I do know that I can pack more bud shoots in the same space with less risk of mold in late flower. I often remember what my College Horticulture teacher told me in lab one day when we were topping up a bunch of plants while doing a bit of root and top pruning, she said "plants love to be cut and torn apart, it makes them come back stronger". In my real world observations, I have to concur. I don't know how many times my wife has freaked out when I'm pruned a rose bush or lemon tree back too far in her eyes. She always gives me shit, then I tell her "just wait a couple of months, and you'll see". Then a couple months later, she says "I like the way you pruned that back now, it grew back so healthy".


Totally agree with you they come back stronger for sure


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## PJ Diaz (May 4, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Totally agree with you they come back stronger for sure


I mean, obviously there is a fine line between pruning and hacking. If you take it too far you will stunt your plants. I'm a pretty firm believer that momentum is really important in terms of plant health, vigor, and prime development. In my opinion, people do sometime take defoliation too far, which results in stunting the plant, and lost grow time. Sure, they will usually recover, and then bounce back strong, but it becomes a bit of a rollercoaster ride, instead of a rocket ship to the moon.


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## harrythehat (May 4, 2021)

Well another defoliation day has come around




__





The Hat is back


Hi all Back to start again. This time using a system I designed and developed then shelved in 2007 awaiting more legal times. It will be relaunched as a 6 plant unit to keep in with US regulations. NTT is the technique. Light is a Quantum board. Seeds from Sensi seeds. There Sensi Skunk 55 day...



www.rollitup.org




It's happening over here now.
Enjoy


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## bk78 (May 5, 2021)

Your plants are over 2 months old and like a foot tall. You think your advanced defoliation has slowed them down?

Why would you want to slow growth down?


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## rkymtnman (May 5, 2021)

bk78 said:


> Your plants are over 2 months old and like a foot tall. You think your advanced defoliation has slowed them down?
> 
> Why would you want to slow growth down?


He's got the flow. Didn't he tell you that?


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## xtsho (May 5, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Totally agree with you they come back stronger for sure



There is a big difference between pruning an annual plant like cannabis or a perennial plant that comes back year after year. Your plants are really small for their age so what makes you think they came back stronger?


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## harrythehat (May 5, 2021)

Have been the first to admit made two severe cock ups with these plants. Normally veg stage is over in 28 days ish.
What I did slowed them down considerably. Don't I fuckin know it.
What is getting boring though is the continual lambasting.
You lot would rather shout someone down.
Rather than look at what's happening now.

Do you have plants that NEED! to be defoliated about once a week?
Take that as a no shall we?
This is normal for me and it goes on pretty much all through flowering period as well.

OK I fucked up. Put it to bed let's get on with the rest of our lives.
It will still come good maybe not as good as it should. 
Sort it on the next round.


----------



## go go kid (May 5, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I personally don't care what people do with their plants, but personally I do remove leaves twice in flower. Once around 3 weeks in, once stretch has stopped, and again a few weeks later once the buds start fattening up. I don't claim that it improves growth, but I do know that I can pack more bud shoots in the same space with less risk of mold in late flower. I often remember what my College Horticulture teacher told me in lab one day when we were topping up a bunch of plants while doing a bit of root and top pruning, she said "plants love to be cut and torn apart, it makes them come back stronger". In my real world observations, I have to concur. I don't know how many times my wife has freaked out when I'm pruned a rose bush or lemon tree back too far in her eyes. She always gives me shit, then I tell her "just wait a couple of months, and you'll see". Then a couple months later, she says "I like the way you pruned that back now, it grew back so healthy".


im coming round to a little defoliation when i read posts like this. thanx


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 6, 2021)




----------



## harrythehat (May 6, 2021)

go go kid said:


> im coming round to a little defoliation when i read posts like this. thanx


Defoliation is a plant by plant thing some may have more foliage than others
If you have two/3 leaves covering a budding site
Free it up you can take half a leaf if you want or tuck it under but if there's too much a chop here an there does no harm
There a bit like us cut off something and the body sends repair fluids so does the plant. To me I say it gives the plant more vigor, others will say different for sure


----------



## Wastei (May 8, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Defoliation is a plant by plant thing some may have more foliage than others
> If you have two/3 leaves covering a budding site
> Free it up you can take half a leaf if you want or tuck it under but if there's too much a chop here an there does no harm
> There a bit like us cut off something and the body sends repair fluids so does the plant. To me I say it gives the plant more vigor, others will say different for sure


If you put as much time and effort on controlling your environment instead of removing leaves you would already be in flower.

Read you had issues with pH in your journal with same old deficiencies to show. Thought you said keeping optimal pH didn't matter? With your "abiotic stress elicitor" shouldn't pH and EC stay in range or even matter like magic? Right?


----------



## twentyeight.threefive (May 8, 2021)

Wastei said:


> If you put as much time and effort on controlling your environment instead of removing leaves you would already be in flower.
> 
> Read you had issues with pH in your journal with same old deficiencies to show. Thought you said keeping optimal pH didn't matter? With your "abiotic stress elicitor" shouldn't pH and EC stay in range or even matter like magic? Right?


If he put as much time into keeping his plants healthy instead of butchering them he'd be better off. Instead he has the need to act like he knows it all. After all this is Advanced Marijuana Cultivation. pH doesn't matter and they NEED to be defoliated day 21 from sprout.


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## PJ Diaz (May 8, 2021)

I almost never remove leaves in veg, but I have been known to do it in order to intentionally stunt the plants, if I've over-vegged and need to bide time before my current flowering cycle is done an I am able to throw the over-vegged plants into flower.. I've also heard of people removing the leaves on the dominant shoot in order to stunt that shoot, and get the less dominant shoots to catch up for a more even canopy. I'm not sure how well that actually works, but It seems to make a bit of sense in theory.


----------



## harrythehat (May 8, 2021)

Wastei said:


> If you put as much time and effort on controlling your environment instead of removing leaves you would already be in flower.
> 
> Read you had issues with pH in your journal with same old deficiencies to show. Thought you said keeping optimal pH didn't matter? With your "abiotic stress elicitor" shouldn't pH and EC stay in range or even matter like magic? Right?


M8 I ain't having no pH issues strangely enough just noted in my journal the right hand tank running @4.6 or thereabouts and is running sweet as a nut no issues showing a low PH yes I adjusted it up but it went back down strange but fuck it. It can run @ 4. Whatever. 
Left hand tank PHd to around 6 is till lagging behind PH adjustment has done nish.
So does PH make a difference does it fuck


----------



## harrythehat (May 8, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> M8 I ain't having no pH issues strangely enough just noted in my journal the right hand tank running @4.6 or thereabouts and is running sweet as a nut no issues showing a low PH yes I adjusted it up but it went back down strange but fuck it. It can run @ 4. Whatever.
> Left hand tank PHd to around 6 is till lagging behind PH adjustment has done nish.
> So does PH make a difference does it fuck


Oh BTW there's probably another defoliation happening today. Yawn may leave it till tomorrow though


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## harrythehat (May 8, 2021)

No fuck it defoliation today got some nests to sort out


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## NotTheFeds (May 9, 2021)

Please show the plants! I'd love to see what they look like after your amazing defoliation techniques! Seeing as the first pic was posted March 26 they should be pretty big by now 44 days in veg surely they are going to be monsters!


----------



## harrythehat (May 9, 2021)

NotTheFeds said:


> Please show the plants! I'd love to see what they look like after your amazing defoliation techniques! Seeing as the first pic was posted March 26 they should be pretty big by now 44 days in veg surely they are going to be monsters!







__





The Hat is back


Hi all Back to start again. This time using a system I designed and developed then shelved in 2007 awaiting more legal times. It will be relaunched as a 6 plant unit to keep in with US regulations. NTT is the technique. Light is a Quantum board. Seeds from Sensi seeds. There Sensi Skunk 55 day...



www.rollitup.org




Pics carry on here. 
No there not that big after trying to kill them twice however there getting there.


----------



## NotTheFeds (May 9, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you not think that this thread subject on "defoliation the first few leaves "should be removed from the advanced section and reposted somewhere else?

Here you are saying to remove healthy leafs from small plants yet you havent got the results to back up your claims

Yes you say you nearly killed your plants twice, that still brings me back to why this thread is in the advanced section!? Advanced growers have their environment sorted then they will mess around with training techniques.

Doesn't belong in this section IMO


----------



## harrythehat (May 9, 2021)

NotTheFeds said:


> Do you not think that this thread subject on "defoliation the first few leaves "should be removed from the advanced section and reposted somewhere else?
> 
> Here you are saying to remove healthy leafs from small plants yet you havent got the results to back up your claims
> 
> ...


Had there been no errors things would look a bit different.
Sometimes shit happens.

However looking forwards.

Do you have plants that NEED defoliation once a week or so right the way through veg and flower? 

I am not talking about taking leaves for the sake of it. 

Look at the plant beforehand its crowded out as in each before and after
Then in 5/6 days it will NEED doing again and again and again could carry on with the agains as still have probably 10 defoliation days left
That's why it's been stuck on here


----------



## Wastei (May 9, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> M8 I ain't having no pH issues strangely enough just noted in my journal the right hand tank running @4.6 or thereabouts and is running sweet as a nut no issues showing a low PH yes I adjusted it up but it went back down strange but fuck it. It can run @ 4. Whatever.
> Left hand tank PHd to around 6 is till lagging behind PH adjustment has done nish.
> So does PH make a difference does it fuck


You drop over 1 whole point in pH in under 24h and you still believe you got your environment dialed in? I'm really lost for words..


----------



## bk78 (May 9, 2021)

Any reason you’re purposely slowing your growth down? Myself, along with any other grower I know would want the most rapid growth as we could get?

My plants would be 2 weeks into flower at the 2 month mark and be at least 2 foot tall, although I don’t pluck a single leaf during the vegetative stage. May have to do with no stress and max photosynthesis maybe?


----------



## harrythehat (May 9, 2021)

bk78 said:


> Any reason you’re purposely slowing your growth down? Myself, along with any other grower I know would want the most rapid growth as we could get?
> 
> My plants would be 2 weeks into flower at the 2 month mark and be at least 2 foot tall, although I don’t pluck a single leaf during the vegetative stage. May have to do with no stress and max photosynthesis maybe?


Not purposely was totally by accident if you bother to read under normal circumstances I would be 4 weeks+ in flower. About 28/30 days veg
I have too pluck leaves it's not an option
Yawn yes I fucked up this time
Regardless will still have to defoliate probably another 10 times and that's not because I want to either. Don't believe watch on.


----------



## bk78 (May 9, 2021)

You ever thought of upping your air movement to avoid high RH areas instead of stressing your plant by pulling leaves?


----------



## harrythehat (May 9, 2021)

bk78 said:


> You ever thought of upping your air movement to avoid high RH areas instead of stressing your plant by pulling leaves?


It's not a case of air movement it's leaf layered 4/5 deep in places look at pre defoliation pictures


----------



## bk78 (May 9, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> It's not a case of air movement it's leaf layered 4/5 deep in places look at pre defoliation pictures


This shits way too advanced for me. Back to the newb section I go 

with my leaves of course


----------



## rkymtnman (May 9, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> That's why it's been stuck on here


more so your pH is out of range. 

needs more FLOW, Hairy


----------



## harrythehat (May 10, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> more so your pH is out of range.
> 
> needs more FLOW, Hairy


M8 PH has Jack shit to do with this. EOS.


----------



## harrythehat (May 11, 2021)

Wastei said:


> You drop over 1 whole point in pH in under 24h and you still believe you got your environment dialed in? I'm really lost for words..


4 whatever dickhead you really think it dropped a point overnite Really!! LOL 
For fucks sake I didn't put the point number in that was all. Whatever was the point number. Because I have bipolar sometimes I can't be bothered to repeat a worthless task. So not putting in .6 has meant a whole load of words of explanation.
Yes to me this is a worthless task as PH was put to bed many years ago as I said I don't bother to PH using a PH buffered nutrient is fine and was brining it down to around 7.
Yet when I check find am running like 4.6
FUCK and no deficiencies showing that's a bitch a.
Sorta puts a goal past you there bro. Reckon I could run @4.0 but am not going too even if it was just to prove a point.
So as I said before PH is not a problem.
Just why it's running that low fucked if I know or care though over the past couple of days nute added it has risen to low 5s
First to admit this is a fuck up and would have been quicker to have restarted as normally veg is over in about 28 days.
Buds are likely to be smaller because of there roasting but then not expecting that much as only have 150 watts.
With a proper start it will be different.
Up to you carry on slating or carry on watching.
And maybe question why do I need to defoliate so often be the same on one's not fucked up too.


----------



## Wastei (May 11, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> 4 whatever dickhead you really think it dropped a point overnite Really!! LOL
> For fucks sake I didn't put the point number in that was all. Whatever was the point number. Because I have bipolar sometimes I can't be bothered to repeat a worthless task. So not putting in .6 has meant a whole load of words of explanation.
> Yes to me this is a worthless task as PH was put to bed many years ago as I said I don't bother to PH using a PH buffered nutrient is fine and was brining it down to around 7.
> Yet when I check find am running like 4.6
> ...


Well you keep thinking 4.7 in pH won't cause any deficiencies. You're the only one blinding yourself to the problem. If my pH goes below 5 or above 7 that data tells me I have serious problems with the system.

A dialed in system will keep pH in range for 2 weeks at a time. There's no "self pHing" nutrients. That's basically digging your head in the ground because you don't have the patience to learn plant biology or at least trying to understand ionic exchange between minerals and how that affect pH.

Still you preach "N.T.T" "Nutrient trickling technique" which is a bogus term and talk about ions and abiotic stresses when you in reality don't have a clue or real understanding of the subject matter. Stop trying to be someone you're not and try to work for common good instead of what's "right and wrong".

We all see through it, life should not be about building up an external image. It should be about hard work, helping others by setting a good example. Give something positive back to this world instead of just blindly consuming it. Cheers Harry!


----------



## harrythehat (May 11, 2021)

Wastei said:


> Well you keep thinking 4.7 in pH won't cause any deficiencies. You're the only one blinding yourself to the problem. If my pH goes below 5 or above 7 that data tells me I have serious problems with the system.
> 
> A dialed in system will keep pH in range for 2 weeks at a time. There's no "self pHing" nutrients. That's basically digging your head in the ground because you don't have the patience to learn plant biology or at least trying to understand ionic exchange between minerals and how that affect pH.
> 
> ...


If you look on grow journals Have posted the last 5 days since starting
PH looks like it wants to run low anyway and its relatively stable. If it stays low we will see if it does any damage
What it says on the bottle is pH buffered ok maybe I used the wrong words. Big deal.
Your entitled to your opinion but then you really do not know what education levels are held as I've said this grow is going to be behind par. You've had the explanation. Don't believe that's your problem
Fuck slate me down as much as you like
NTT bogus, there I will say you have not got a clue as it will show
How the fuck can you have NFT in a tube go on explain that!!
NFT is Nutrient film technique which is a film across a flat surface explain how you do that in a tube
This I really want too hear


----------



## Wastei (May 11, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> If you look on grow journals Have posted the last 5 days since starting
> PH looks like it wants to run low anyway and its relatively stable. If it stays low we will see if it does any damage
> What it says on the bottle is pH buffered ok maybe I used the wrong words. Big deal.
> Your entitled to your opinion but then you really do not know what education levels are held as I've said this grow is going to be behind par. You've had the explanation. Don't believe that's your problem
> ...


I don't know what you're doing Harry, but I can tell you it's not working. People's been renaming hydroponic techniques forever. The technique doesn't matter, it's how you design and operate the system. Kratky is one of the recent clowns, "Fallponics" another. It's all systems running nutrient salts in readily available form in solution.

It seems like you're running low water volumes with shallow levels. That's not improving on anything, that's making the system prone to pH fluctuations. I've seen recent nonsense with someone renaming DWC to "Shallow Water Culture", it's all narrow ego minded activity that doesn't lead to any developmental good. Like I said technique doesn't matter, it's how you design and operate the system.


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 11, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Your entitled to your opinion but then you really do not know what education levels are held


When people misuse your vs you're, it's generally a pretty good indication as to "what education levels are held".


----------



## Tvanmunhen (May 11, 2021)

You shouldn't judge a book by its misspelled cover! it may have some cool pictures!


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 11, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> You shouldn't judge a book by its misspelled cover! it may have some cool pictures!


Seems to me that nearly every book has someone other than the author credited for the photos or illustrations. I wonder if the OP can do nice crayon art.


----------



## harrythehat (May 11, 2021)

Wastei said:


> I don't know what you're doing Harry, but I can tell you it's not working. People's been renaming hydroponic techniques forever. The technique doesn't matter, it's how you design and operate the system. Kratky is one of the recent clowns, "Fallponics" another. It's all systems running nutrient salts in readily available form in solution.
> 
> It seems like you're running low water volumes with shallow levels. That's not improving on anything, that's making the system prone to pH fluctuations. I've seen recent nonsense with someone renaming DWC to "Shallow Water Culture", it's all narrow ego minded activity that doesn't lead to any developmental good. Like I said technique doesn't matter, it's how you design and operate the system.


S
Will take that as gospel YOU DO NOT KNOW what I am doing as totally true 
No I am not running low water volumes
M8 the PH is relatively stable look at the sheet it's only on 5 days but showing a good pattern
Still strange how you do not wish to explain how NFT can be done in a fuckin pipe.
Would rather talk a lot of bollocks about something else.

As you cannot explain how NTT works shall I explain NTT to you.
Propelling any gas or liquid down a tube creates friction. 
Friction is known to create static FACT!
Hence why the gas and water pipes are earthed cos they go fucking bang.
NTT is like a staircase. Roots CANNOT follow the contours of a staircase, they leave an air gap.
This airgap creates an area where water trickles down the roots. Trickling creates friction. Friction creates static FACT!.
NTT explained too a T or should I say a twat.
Come on explain NFT if a tube.
This i really want too hear


----------



## harrythehat (May 11, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> When people misuse your vs you're, it's generally a pretty good indication as to "what education levels are held".


REALLY!


----------



## NotTheFeds (May 13, 2021)

How are the lady's going?


----------



## harrythehat (May 13, 2021)

NotTheFeds said:


> How are the lady's going?







__





The Hat is back


PH meter arrived this morning. calibrated and took some readings Base water 8.6 Left hand tank just being PHd to around 6.0 Right hand tank 4.6 strangely enough and it's been running like that for who knows how long. Only changed nutes 3 days ago. Strange. Who was that who piped in with run @4.0...



www.rollitup.org




Flipping today


----------



## harrythehat (May 13, 2021)

Oy Wasteid
Heres some figures to mull over
Left tank I ran down too .8 EC which completey yellowed the leafs out. Showing I can't run the ridiculously low EC you do
Anyway it gave the roots some rest time
I PHd at .8 EC now bringing EC back to a sensible figure
Leaves have colour returned
PH has dropped to close to 4
Because I am using a PH buffered nutrient mustn't say Self PH InG cos that's impossible.
Same fucking thing in my eyes.
Anyway PH is running that low low figure wasted
So what now?
Gonna leave it running low 
I may change the nutrient but as the right tank seems to want to run low PH it may be a case of changing nutes completely to a soft water formula
Fucked if I will bother this grow maybe next.

Oh yes wasted you haven't explained how NFT works in a tube yet
Still waiting for that LOL


----------



## Wastei (May 14, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Oy Wasteid
> Heres some figures to mull over
> Left tank I ran down too .8 EC which completey yellowed the leafs out. Showing I can't run the ridiculously low EC you do
> Anyway it gave the roots some rest time
> ...


Leaves more to be wished for Harry. I don't know what you're really trying to prove here? That you can't get the system stable? We all know that already, your plants are trying to tell you the same thing...


----------



## harrythehat (May 14, 2021)

Wastei said:


> Leaves more to be wished for Harry. I don't know what you're really trying to prove here? That you can't get the system stable? We all know that already, your plants are trying to tell you the same thing...


For so much instability.
They look pretty happy to me
For running at a continual low PH actually considering EC is being risen there is only a few .05 point movements overnight
Looking at the plants point being shown is PH doesn't matter too much.

You still have not answered NFT in a tube. Now that's what three times and you cannot answer can you.?


----------



## twentyeight.threefive (May 14, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> For so much instability.
> They look pretty happy to me
> For running at a continual low PH actually considering EC is being risen there is only a few .05 point movements overnight
> Looking at the plants point being shown is PH doesn't matter too much.
> ...


You think those look healthy?


----------



## rkymtnman (May 14, 2021)

twentyeight.threefive said:


> You think those look healthy?


maybe it's the lighting but it looks like there are deficiencies everywhere to me too.


----------



## twentyeight.threefive (May 14, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> maybe it's the lighting but it looks like there are deficiencies everywhere to me too.


Mon
Tue
Wen hahahaha. Wensday is probably when things went downhill.


----------



## rkymtnman (May 14, 2021)

not sure why he's feeding at 0.8 he said his NTT could handle almost 3EC without problems.


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 14, 2021)

twentyeight.threefive said:


> You think those look healthy?





rkymtnman said:


> maybe it's the lighting but it looks like there are deficiencies everywhere to me too.


My thoughts as well. Guy can't keep his system stable.


----------



## rkymtnman (May 14, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> My thoughts as well. Guy can't keep his system stable.


his theory is that EC and pH don't matter. now we are seeing his theory at work. lol. 

and i think he believes he can sell this NTT to the masses. 

love this thread.


----------



## rkymtnman (May 14, 2021)

@Wastei where you at? can't you explain to Hairy that NTT is the same exact thing as NFT? are you scared????? lmao


----------



## Wastei (May 14, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> @Wastei where you at? can't you explain to Hairy that NTT is th same exact thing as NFT? are you scared???? lmao


The thing is I don't think Harry's ever seen a NFT system so he got no point of reference. Harry's a simple guy, he was high one day reading about hydroponics. 

Then he suddenly remembered reading about the hanging gardens in Babylon as a kid in school. He did a Google search for "Hydroponic hanging gardens in Babylon" and just ran for it! That's my final verdict, now we can all go home. Lol!


----------



## twentyeight.threefive (May 14, 2021)

Wastei said:


> The thing is I don't think Harry's ever seen a NFT system so he got no point of reference. Harry's a simple guy, he was high one day reading about hydroponics.
> 
> Then he suddenly remembered reading about the hanging gardens in Babylon as a kid in school. He did a Google search for "Hydroponic hanging gardens in Babylon" and just ran for it! That's my final verdict, now we can all go home. Lol!


But what about NFT in a tube. Explain it. Now.
This guy is something else. Lol.


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 14, 2021)

twentyeight.threefive said:


> But what about NFT in a tube. Explain it. Now.
> This guy is something else. Lol.


Tubular NFT Dude!


----------



## Tvanmunhen (May 14, 2021)

I like harry and his work! I like seeing someone experiment with there plants. Maybe he is on to something maybe he's not.... either way I like his passion and drive. Failure and success is all part of the game here. The plants look good considering, anyone who has been paying attention would see that the plants are doing better than expected! Perhaps taunting wastei is counterproductive can we all just hug it out already! Thanks again for your work Harry!


----------



## harrythehat (May 14, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> I like harry and his work! I like seeing someone experiment with there plants. Maybe he is on to something maybe he's not.... either way I like his passion and drive. Failure and success is all part of the game here. The plants look good considering, anyone who has been paying attention would see that the plants are doing better than expected! Perhaps taunting wastei is counterproductive can we all just hug it out already! Thanks again for your work Harry!


Thanks it's nice for a little support
Strangely enough they look pretty good to my eyes ATM. And deficiencies??
Yawn these boys have to fling there toys around
But yet still cannot explain NFT in a tube


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 14, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> But yet still cannot explain NFT in a tube


It's still NFT.


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 14, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> I like harry and his work! I like seeing someone experiment with there plants. Maybe he is on to something maybe he's not.... either way I like his passion and drive. Failure and success is all part of the game here. The plants look good considering, anyone who has been paying attention would see that the plants are doing better than expected! Perhaps taunting wastei is counterproductive can we all just hug it out already! Thanks again for your work Harry!





harrythehat said:


> Thanks it's nice for a little support
> Strangely enough they look pretty good to my eyes ATM. And deficiencies??
> Yawn these boys have to fling there toys around
> But yet still cannot explain NFT in a tube


The guy supporting you harry, sure comes up with some doosies..






Do you fart on your plants?


???? been farting a lot lately thought I might share!



www.rollitup.org


----------



## harrythehat (May 14, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> It's still NFT.


Come on then how is it NFT in aTube
Come on explain it!!
It's fucking impossible that's why you cannot explain it

NFT is not possible In a tube because it forms a river in the bottom it is not possible to Film technique in a fucking circle it has to have a flat area to create a film.
Brainless scientists my fucking arse.


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 14, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Come on then how is it NFT in aTube
> Come on explain it!!
> It's fucking impossible that's why you cannot explain it
> 
> ...


You're trying to split hairs. It's NFT. Deal with it.


----------



## Tvanmunhen (May 14, 2021)

Tvanmunhen said:


> I like harry and his work! I like seeing someone experiment with there plants. Maybe he is on to something maybe he's not.... either way I like his passion and drive. Failure and success is all part of the game here. The plants look good considering, anyone who has been paying attention would see that the plants are doing better than expected! Perhaps taunting wastei is counterproductive can we all just hug it out already! Thanks again for your work Harry!





PJ Diaz said:


> The guy supporting you harry, sure comes up with some doosies..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awww thanks it's a shame my humor is a little obscure sometimes. PJ sir you are the master of keys.


----------



## harrythehat (May 14, 2021)

If you actually sat and studied these numbers
Take the right hand tank don't want to tax your brains too much
There's around .3 PH fluctuation.
EC shows plants using nutrient.
EC figure rises adding nutrient. next day lower so plant is drinking food.
Really cannot see where the problems are here
Unless I'm getting number dyslexia


----------



## harrythehat (May 14, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> You're trying to split hairs. It's NFT. Deal with it.


How is it NFT it's only twats like you and your m8s calling it NFT from a lack of knowledge
NFT is impossible in a tube.
Full fucking stop


----------



## Southernontariogrower (May 14, 2021)

Wastei said:


> Well when you're done with mutilating and vegging your sad looking plants for month on end I'm already done harvesting two flowering cycles. I have no time comparing myself to a narcissistic fool.


Dont veg either.


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 14, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> How is it NFT it's only twats like you and your m8s calling it NFT from a lack of knowledge
> NFT is impossible in a tube.
> Full fucking stop


No it isn't. You're just being obtuse about it. Also you seem to be terrible at math.


----------



## harrythehat (May 14, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> No it isn't. You're just being obtuse about it. Also you seem to be terrible at math.


How am I being obtuse Nutrient FILM technique is exactly what it says a film.
Since it is not physically possible to get a film in a tube
It cannot be NFT. Simples.

Ok the sheet is there please explain my numbers and how they are terrible
This I want to hear


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 14, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> How am I being obtuse Nutrient FILM technique is exactly what it says a film.
> Since it is not physically possible to get a film in a tube
> It cannot be NFT. Simples.
> 
> ...


DWC means deep water culture, but it's really rather shallow in reality. Check mate.


----------



## harrythehat (May 15, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> DWC means deep water culture, but it's really rather shallow in reality. Check mate.


No we are not on about DWC it's no good changing the goal posts

Your full of bollocks. Want to jab but have nothing to back it up.
Figures are there use them and show me where I am wrong 
IF you can't shut the fuck up
Fucking wanker


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 15, 2021)

Blah blah blah Harry. It's still NFT.


----------



## harrythehat (May 15, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> Blah blah blah Harry. It's still NFT.


Proves it then
You cannot come up with any actual evidence for
It to be NFT other than YOUR say so
Yet I give
Scientific facts that prove it is not and cannot be NFT
And you still wish to call it so
Would say you are the ones being belligerent and very imature.


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 15, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Proves it then
> You cannot come up with any actual evidence for
> It to be NFT other than YOUR say so
> Yet I give
> ...


Call it what you want harry. I honestly couldn't care less. Your plants don't look great, and that's the real metric.


----------



## Wastei (May 15, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Proves it then
> You cannot come up with any actual evidence for
> It to be NFT other than YOUR say so
> Yet I give
> ...


There's nothing to prove. Everybody on here understand basic hydroponic principles. You're free to do your thing but people will laugh at your reasoning because it sounds like listening to a child who's crying and 100% certain ice is NOT water.


----------



## harrythehat (May 15, 2021)

Wastei said:


> There's nothing to prove. Everybody on here understand basic hydroponic principles. You're free to do your thing but people will laugh at your reasoning because it sounds like listening to a child who's crying and 100% certain ice is NOT water.


You were the one throwing challenges earlier weren't you? pH 4.0 amongst other crap And someone stated 0.6 EC for veg.
I mean if you are going to argue come up with the facts
If NFT was nutrient Flow Technique you would have an argument but it's not.
It's FILM as it's scientifically impossible put put a film in a pipe.
It cannot be NFT..
Now the square section pipe they grow lettuce
That is NFT 
But you wouldn't dare grow weed in it.
As root rot will abound

Quite surprising you guys aren't using a Ganga grid to get bigger crops as your on the cutting edge


----------



## Wastei (May 15, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> You were the one throwing challenges earlier weren't you? pH 4.0 amongst other crap And someone stated 0.6 EC for veg.
> I mean if you are going to argue come up with the facts
> If NFT was nutrient Flow Technique you would have an argument but it's not.
> It's FILM as it's scientifically impossible put put a film in a pipe.
> ...


"N.T.T" doesn't exist Larry, you're the only one lacking experience and being fooled by marketing. It's fine but nobody else's buying it. You're trying to argue a pig in makeup is somehow something other than a pig? I think you're a lost case Harry..


----------



## harrythehat (May 15, 2021)

Wastei said:


> "N.T.T" doesn't exist Larry, you're the only one lacking experience and being fooled by marketing. It's fine but nobody else's buying it. You're trying to argue a pig in makeup is somehow something other than a pig? I think you're a lost case Harry..


Of course it doesn't exist you would know sitting on the cutting edge


----------



## rkymtnman (May 15, 2021)

where's the 2 to 2.6 EC you said would be "easy"?

_Turn up the trickle bro. the secret is in my signature. The power is in the flow. Thank you. Once you have turned up the flow you can dial in your nutes with a good flow 2.0 EC is easily achievable._

poor Hairy. i thouught you said you've got over 20 years experience.


----------



## harrythehat (May 15, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> where's the 2 to 2.6 EC you said would be "easy"?
> 
> _Turn up the trickle bro. the secret is in my signature. The power is in the flow. Thank you. Once you have turned up the flow you can dial in your nutes with a good flow 2.0 EC is easily achievable._
> 
> poor Hairy. i thouught you said you've got over 20 years experience.


M8 it was at the beginning. Have given the explanation too many times to bother again 
Next time will show you. But I doubt that would be good enough for you. Then if it's not tough shit


----------



## rkymtnman (May 15, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> M8 it was at the beginning. Have given the explanation too many times to bother again
> Next time will show you. But I doubt that would be good enough for you. Then if it's not tough shit


thank you for finally admitting your are full of shit you plunker. 

my work here is done. 

adios! enjoy your trickle.


----------



## harrythehat (May 15, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> thank you for finally admitting your are full of shit you plunker.
> 
> my work here is done.
> 
> adios! enjoy your trickle.


Yawn


----------



## rkymtnman (May 15, 2021)




----------



## rkymtnman (May 15, 2021)

chapter 10 is the NTT technique Hairy.


----------



## harrythehat (May 15, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> thank you for finally admitting your are full of shit you plunker.
> 
> my work here is done.
> 
> adios! enjoy your trickle.


Strangely enough added nutrient to the right hand tank this morning. EC 12 hrs later Like just now is 1.8/2.0
As the left tank has had plenty of root rest have added nutrient now about enough to bring it up to close to the same. Will take a reading in two hours then again in the morning.
Will take a picture for you so you can work out my terrible maths apparently but from what I see is plants drinking nutrient. And a fairly stable PH next day down from nutrient addition something your dickhead mate did not consider
Yes a shockingly low PH. Just why I do not know
But I will get some soft water PH buffered as it contains less acid to see if it makes a difference even though am in a hard water area.

It's a couple of hours later left tank added nutrient reading a couple of hours like now 1.6/1.8 EC 5.3 Ph will do another reading 10 hours on as it will fully settle come the morning as you will see on other readings


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 15, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> You were the one throwing challenges earlier weren't you? pH 4.0 amongst other crap And someone stated 0.6 EC for veg.
> I mean if you are going to argue come up with the facts
> If NFT was nutrient Flow Technique you would have an argument but it's not.
> It's FILM as it's scientifically impossible put put a film in a pipe.
> ...


Based on your own logic, DWC can not be deep water culture, because it takes place in a bucket, and by definition buckets are not deep water. Do you see the error in your logic yet?


----------



## harrythehat (May 15, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> Based on your own logic, DWC can not be deep water culture, because it takes place in a bucket, and by definition buckets are not deep water. Do you see the error in your logic yet?


Here we go again have never mentioned nothing about DWC. Changing the goalposts yet again even a simple question cannot be answered by you lot (explain NFT in a tube) seems none of you can. Which goes to show it doesn't exist just you lot falsely renaming a technique
In a square profile tube yes it can be NFT and they grow lettuce in them. but not in a round one 
Try it yourself with a tube and you will see it makes a little River or stream in the lowest part of the tube gravity has a good deal to do with it.


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 15, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> (explain NFT in a tube)


Easy. It's NFT in a tube.


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 15, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Here we go again have never mentioned nothing about DWC. Changing the goalposts yet again even a simple question cannot be answered by you lot (explain NFT in a tube) seems none of you can. Which goes to show it doesn't exist just you lot falsely renaming a technique
> In a square profile tube yes it can be NFT and they grow lettuce in them. but not in a round one
> Try it yourself with a tube and you will see it makes a little River or stream in the lowest part of the tube gravity has a good deal to do with it.


Harry, you do realize that when you grow in "potting soil" it's also not really soil right? It's just a soilless mix with organic amendments, but it's not soil. It's parallel to your situation, just like DWC is as I mentioned before. You are taking these terms too literally, and somehow thinking that if you tweak the principles slightly, that you've suddenly discovered a completely new technique deserving of its own name. It isn't. If anything you are running a "modified NFT style". Does that make you happier now?


----------



## rkymtnman (May 15, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> Easy. It's NFT in a tube.


appears ole hairy got us on a technicality:

A *non-fungible token* (*NFT*) is a unit of data stored on a digital ledger, called a blockchain, that certifies a digital asset to be unique and therefore not interchangeable.


----------



## rkymtnman (May 15, 2021)

so yes, Non fungible tokens can't be in a tube. lmao.

harry, i called your bluff a few months ago. you told me that you'd show me what was up. and you most certainly have. 

i think you'll make a fortune selling NTT to the masses. good luck M8


----------



## harrythehat (May 15, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> Harry, you do realize that when you grow in "potting soil" it's also not really soil right? It's just a soilless mix with organic amendments, but it's not soil. It's parallel to your situation, just like DWC is as I mentioned before. You are taking these terms too literally, and somehow thinking that if you tweak the principles slightly, that you've suddenly discovered a completely new technique deserving of its own name. It isn't. If anything you are running a "modified NFT style". Does that make you happier now?


If that satisfies your wonderlust you call it that.
which is not surprising when YOU can have NFT in a fucking tube FFS
But if you actually take a look at how it is assembled it bears no semblance to NFT So really a little difficult to call it NFT
That's OK carry on in your blinkered vision world your safe in there


----------



## harrythehat (May 15, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Strangely enough added nutrient to the right hand tank this morning. EC 12 hrs later Like just now is 1.8/2.0
> As the left tank has had plenty of root rest have added nutrient now about enough to bring it up to close to the same. Will take a reading in two hours then again in the morning.
> Will take a picture for you so you can work out my terrible maths apparently but from what I see is plants drinking nutrient. And a fairly stable PH next day down from nutrient addition something your dickhead mate did not consider
> Yes a shockingly low PH. Just why I do not know
> ...


Good morning you lucky chap 
See if your grey matter can take this in.

Over this past week I have been raising my EC levels from remidial to close to normal 1.8/2.0 on the way up you can see at each stage the plant has drank the nutrient as the EC number has moved down.
So I have increased EC each time I have seen it use the nutrient. 
Simple enough so far? Are you still with me?.

Getting my EC up as you can see the PH in the right tank is now extremely low. 
Am I worried am I fuck.

My remedy for this will be tomorrow go to hydro shop and get soft water PH buffered nutrient
Change the nutrient and see what the difference is.
With it containing less acid. This should give a better PH

PH
Take a look at the day between each rise in EC
The PH is within a couple of . Each day I call that pretty stable.
If you cannot understand the chart let someone with a little more intelligence have a look see what they make of it


----------



## harrythehat (May 15, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> appears ole hairy got us on a technicality:
> 
> A *non-fungible token* (*NFT*) is a unit of data stored on a digital ledger, called a blockchain, that certifies a digital asset to be unique and therefore not interchangeable.


Yawn


----------



## Southernontariogrower (May 15, 2021)

Have you tried lst to get them to branch out? Leaf tucking is good practice. Even though we think we need to take fans off, really we dont. They are there for a reason. Light pennetration not as important in veg as flower imo,only! Plant requires less light in veg as about dli and changes at onset of 12x12. Ever tried monstercropping clones? Bushes but take a long time. Nice grow btw even with defol.


----------



## harrythehat (May 15, 2021)

Southernontariogrower said:


> Have you tried lst to get them to branch out? Leaf tucking is good practice. Even though we think we need to take fans off, really we dont. They are there for a reason. Light pennetration not as important in veg as flower imo,only! Plant requires less light in veg as about dli and changes at onset of 12x12. Ever tried monstercropping clones? Bushes but take a long time. Nice grow btw even with defol.


Thank you for the compliment. Makes a change LOL
Normally I just go straight through do tuck the occasional leaf in the beginning but it just grows so much leaf it is a case of defoliation they get a bit of LST and HST later if they get too tall
Never gone for monster cropping or anything like that generally left the whole plant where I should get in there and take away the smaller branches. Will do more of that as they get going cos am only using 150 watts of led


----------



## Southernontariogrower (May 15, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Thank you for the compliment. Makes a change LOL
> Normally I just go straight through do tuck the occasional leaf in the beginning but it just grows so much leaf it is a case of defoliation they get a bit of LST and HST later if they get too tall
> Never gone for monster cropping or anything like that generally left the whole plant where I should get in there and take away the smaller branches. Will do more of that as they get going cos am only using 150 watts of led


150w is what l have for veg, it works very well. Will only flower a few. But for 2x2 itll rock em. I find lst best as once dominance is broken all growth uniform and big imo. I dont really veg, put em in at 6-8 inches, end up 2-4 or 5 feet. Even larf is reputable. These are all over time wise, was trying to put one a week but some males got into the mix, screwed me up. One at back right l stripped all budsites but top 3 or 4 seems iternodal spacing in sites has decreased, did 2nd week of 12x12. Used to stealth growing, close light, run everything hot. They arent anything special but lm happy!


----------



## harrythehat (May 16, 2021)

Southernontariogrower said:


> 150w is what l have for veg, it works very well. Will only flower a few. But for 2x2 itll rock em. I find lst best as once dominance is broken all growth uniform and big imo. I dont really veg, put em in at 6-8 inches, end up 2-4 or 5 feet. Even larf is reputable. These are all over time wise, was trying to put one a week but some males got into the mix, screwed me up. One at back right l stripped all budsites but top 3 or 4 seems iternodal spacing in sites has decreased, did 2nd week of 12x12. Used to stealth growing, close light, run everything hot. They arent anything special but lm happy!


They look good and your right to be happy
Have kept my area as close as possible it's about 30x36 inches with 5 plants @30 watts per plant should be ok for a reasonable yield


----------



## Southernontariogrower (May 16, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> They look good and your right to be happy
> Have kept my area as close as possible it's about 30x36 inches with 5 plants @30 watts per plant should be ok for a reasonable yield


Per plant or square foot?


----------



## Southernontariogrower (May 16, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> They look good and your right to be happy
> Have kept my area as close as possible it's about 30x36 inches with 5 plants @30 watts per plant should be ok for a reasonable yield


40watts per square foot, pretty good lighting imo lm running 37.5w per sq ft, and happy with grow, if had more watts would give, homemade co2 in 4x4. Learning curve from hps, wouldnt go back to hid now. 2nd flower cycle with light. Doing well so far. Found higher temp and rh with co2 makes for lots of growth 90 degrees and 80rh. No pm like l used to grow at 65%rh.


----------



## harrythehat (May 16, 2021)

Southernontariogrower said:


> Per plant or square foot?


Per plant
I just divided 150 by 5 = 30 watts per plant 
But then according to others my math is bad guess there spelling bis also.
Seems the most logical way to me. Then i suppose you could break it down to watts per sq foot.
At the end
My preference is GPW another simple division until you start chucking in veg period light hours etc then you need to not oops make a mistake and extend the veg a month ana bit


----------



## Qube (May 16, 2021)

“I can still tend the *plants*, George? I didn't mean no harm, George.”
― John Steinbeck, Of Mice and *Marijuana *


----------



## Wastei (May 16, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Per plant
> I just divided 150 by 5 = 30 watts per plant
> But then according to others my math is bad guess there spelling bis also.
> Seems the most logical way to me. Then i suppose you could break it down to watts per sq foot.
> ...


According to everyone else watts per plant doesn't tell you anything. It's how many photons is actually hitting the plants and what's usuable of it for photosynthesis. Watts per square feet, LUX and PPFD is what everyone else use to measure actual coverage and light intensity.

GPW is a totally worthless measure. If you veg a plant for 6 month and get 2 GPW you're still only harvesting 300g in 6 months. That's way less than me an my 10 friends consume in that time period.


----------



## twentyeight.threefive (May 16, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> How am I being obtuse Nutrient FILM technique is exactly what it says a film.
> Since it is not physically possible to get a film in a tube
> It cannot be NFT. Simples.
> 
> ...











DIY NFT Hydroponic System with Sea of Green Using PVC Pipe


Building an NFT system including all materials, tools and instructions. All DIY products are available from hardware stores and hydroponic shops.




growlode.com





Isn't this NFT with tubes?


----------



## Wastei (May 16, 2021)

twentyeight.threefive said:


> DIY NFT Hydroponic System with Sea of Green Using PVC Pipe
> 
> 
> Building an NFT system including all materials, tools and instructions. All DIY products are available from hardware stores and hydroponic shops.
> ...


Better watch your steps, you're only the 5th person pointing this out! Don't you see Harry is the smart of the bunch and everyone else are just fools? Harry's probably the most funny community member on here, he doesn't know he's quite the comedian!


----------



## twentyeight.threefive (May 16, 2021)

Wastei said:


> Better watch your steps, you're only the 5th person pointing this out! Don't you see Harry is the smart of the bunch and everyone else are just fools? Harry's probably the most funny community member on here, he doesn't know he's quite the comedian!


A film can form on any shape container depending on surface tension. He may want to go back to science class.


----------



## harrythehat (May 16, 2021)

Wastei said:


> According to everyone else watts per plant doesn't tell you anything. It's how many photons is actually hitting the plants and what's usuable of it for photosynthesis. Watts per square feet, LUX and PPFD is what everyone else use to measure actual coverage and light intensity.
> 
> GPW is a totally worthless measure. If you veg a plant for 6 month and get 2 GPW you're still only harvesting 300g in 6 months. That's way less than me an my 10 friends consume in that time period.


Watts per plant maybe not for you it's my way of working out and expressing
Working gpw out on a long or mistake in vegging again no.
Fair enough with a normal veg time for gpw
Either way i would still reference what watts per plant yielded for planning a larger grow
I really don't see the difference if it gives the same end or is that my twisted mind.
Other factors would be quality of led full spectrum etc.


----------



## harrythehat (May 16, 2021)

Wastei said:


> Better watch your steps, you're only the 5th person pointing this out! Don't you see Harry is the smart of the bunch and everyone else are just fools? Harry's probably the most funny community member on here, he doesn't know he's quite the comedian!


Of course it's nft it's square tube already had this conversation it's not possible in round tube. Square yes


----------



## rkymtnman (May 16, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Of course it's nft it's square tube


square tube? a tube is a cylinder by definition. 

come on Hairy, you aren't this obtuse are you? that was rhetorical: we already know. 

i'm gonna have jumbo shrimp for dinner tonite.


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 16, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Of course it's nft it's square tube already had this conversation it's not possible in round tube. Square yes





rkymtnman said:


> square tube? a tube is a cylinder by definition.
> 
> come on Hairy, you aren't this obtuse are you? that was rhetorical: we already know.
> 
> i'm gonna have jumbo shrimp for dinner tonite.


Ole Larry can't even tell the difference between square and round. One look at the pics on that page show that it's NFT running through round pvc tubes. Heck Larry is so stubborn he's willing to sacrifice quality and yield just to prove that plants can survive at 4.0 ph. That's cool though, everyone likes a court jester or rodeo clown. Go Larry GO!


----------



## rkymtnman (May 16, 2021)

i really wanted to see one tank with seedlings at 2EC and 4pH and the other with 2EC and 9pH.

thanks for letting me down 'arry.


----------



## harrythehat (May 16, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> square tube? a tube is a cylinder by definition.
> 
> come on Hairy, you aren't this obtuse are you? that was rhetorical: we already know.
> 
> i'm gonna have jumbo shrimp for dinner tonite.


Yawn who's being persnickety now


----------



## harrythehat (May 16, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> Ole Larry can't even tell the difference between square and round. One look at the pics on that page show that it's NFT running through round pvc tubes. Heck Larry is so stubborn he's willing to sacrifice quality and yield just to prove that plants can survive at 4.0 ph. That's cool though, everyone likes a court jester or rodeo clown. Go Larry GO!


No M8 if you bothered to read you would know what my next move is


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 16, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> No M8 if you bothered to read you would know what my next move is


You'll ask us to explain NFT in a tube for you?


----------



## harrythehat (May 16, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> i really wanted to see one tank with seedlings at 2EC and 4pH and the other with 2EC and 9pH.
> 
> thanks for letting me down 'arry.


Bit of a bitch cos can only show you 1.8/2.0 @ 3.96 PH and the other @ 1.4. 3.97 PH
Which shows (yawn) I can run @ 4.0 PH without a problem.
Now twat if you were reading I will rectify that today with a nutrient change to soft water nute.

Oh yes these plants are full of deficiencies. Would you like to point them out For everyone?

Will be interesting to see what changing nutes and raising PH does. Cos running low doesn't seem to have made any difference.

Quite surprising you lot haven't said I've been making these figures up.
Then I suppose we have that pleasure too come


----------



## harrythehat (May 16, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> You'll ask us to explain NFT in a tube for you?


Where's does your IQ level stop around 3


----------



## harrythehat (May 16, 2021)

twentyeight.threefive said:


> A film can form on any shape container depending on surface tension. He may want to go back to science class.


Your spot on correct
But when you put a flow down a tube it will form a rivulet not a film 
Impossible to film a tube the way it is being shown.
But for those with mush for brains it will do
Carry on you know best LOL


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 16, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Where's does your IQ level stop around 3


"Where's does"? Derp. Larry, fools like yourself shouldn't be talking about IQ's.


----------



## harrythehat (May 16, 2021)

Sad fucker


----------



## twentyeight.threefive (May 17, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Your spot on correct
> But when you put a flow down a tube it will form a rivulet not a film
> Impossible to film a tube the way it is being shown.
> But for those with mush for brains it will do
> Carry on you know best LOL


*You're


----------



## harrythehat (May 17, 2021)

As I said would do changed nutrient to ionic nice and easy 1 part soft water formula
See where we go with this


----------



## harrythehat (May 17, 2021)

Oh yes changed the nutrient in the dark period no doubt some twat will say that's wrong


----------



## Wastei (May 17, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Oh yes changed the nutrient in the dark period no doubt some twat will say that's wrong


You're calling someone who post constructive criticism a twat? I don't get you Harry, constructive criticism should be the main source for improvements. Maybe it's your own point of view that need to change?


----------



## PhishPhood16 (May 17, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> "Where's does"? Derp. Larry, fools like yourself shouldn't be talking about IQ's.


----------



## harrythehat (May 17, 2021)

Welcome to any newcomers.
To let you know where we are there's two sides in snipers alley the bitchin side or the side that thinks the plants don't look do bad considering.
Join whichever side you like all are welcome or just kick back an chill you can always take bets on who's going to have to bite there words.

Anyway did a Nutrient change to a soft water formula and just one part far easier for numb nutz and intelligencia too boot.
Base water PH 7.5 
Left tank pH 6.33 E.C 1.6/1.8
Right tank pH 7.38 E.C 1.8
PH could change overnite on left tank as pH down was only added a few hours ago
Left tank won't be PHd

Happy growing all


----------



## Star Dog (May 17, 2021)

Something doesn't tally?
I'm using soft water ionic with a water ph of 7.2, my mixed nutrient of 1.2ec measures 6.4/5 ph, iirc at 1.8ec it was 6.2ph

I can't understand how ionic lowers my ph so significantly and your ph so little???


----------



## rkymtnman (May 17, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Which shows (yawn) I can run @ 4.0 PH without a problem


yawn. run one at pH of 9 was what I said. cannabis loves acidic nutes, not basic. 

and you still haven't shown a seedling running at 2+EC (actually you did; those are the ones with the tip burn that you removed so nobody would see that). who cares if a full grown vegging plant can run that high. yawn.

keep moving those goalposts, Hairy.


----------



## harrythehat (May 17, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> yawn. run one at pH of 9 was what I said. cannabis loves acidic nutes, not basic.
> 
> and you still haven't shown a seedling running at 2+EC (actually you did; those are the ones with the tip burn that you removed so nobody would see that). who cares if a full grown vegging plant can run that high. yawn.
> 
> keep moving those goalposts, Hairy.


M8 they started of @2.0 for 26 days in the beginning when the roots got broiled. Read the journal. And none were taken out
And if you think I am going to buy and use PH up just to show you a point
You have another thing coming
The reason it was allowed to go so low is that I have not used meters for years EC or PH
So when it went to 3.96 it would have done it in the past so I was not worried
Would like to thank the guys who talked me into getting one.
Which by mistake has proven it can run PH 4 .
To which I have no doubts it can handle going the other way.
Why would I think that?
Because it has previously been written PH has a range of 4./9.0 
. Simples.
THANKS GUYS!!


----------



## harrythehat (May 17, 2021)

Star Dog said:


> Something doesn't tally?
> I'm using soft water ionic with a water ph of 7.2, my mixed nutrient of 1.2ec measures 6.4/5 ph, iirc at 1.8ec it was 6.2ph
> 
> I can't understand how ionic lowers my ph so significantly and your ph so little???


My water base was 7.5 
EC 1.6/1.8
pH 6.35
My working out give it 0.15 difference between us
So it's not that much difference in PH 
There's no acid in soft water formula the .3 difference at the start is probably why our .15 difference in the end

Mind there was still a litre or so of the old nutrient in the tank
That could make a point or so


----------



## yummy fur (May 18, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Welcome to any newcomers.
> To let you know where we are there's two sides in snipers alley the bitchin side or the side that thinks the plants don't look do bad considering.
> Join whichever side you like all are welcome or just kick back an chill you can always take bets on who's going to have to bite there words.


I haven't read the thread just the first page, but I pretty well know what it's going to say. From what I have read, generally you are correct but there is room for nuance. I grow auto these days and for me it's horses for course, I'm growing a blackberry kush auto (not the one in the photos below) whose first leaves were so broad and strong that I could tuck them completely away and they could not force their was back up, which usually happens. I try to not cut those types of leaves off if I can help it. Letting more light in, in my experience does tend to allow the lower branches to grow. I tend to wonder not about the photosynthesis the the leaves are now not doing but I wonder how it affects the plant regarding it's hormones and other signalling chemicals, this is something that I have no idea about.

I think the bottom line in this case is 'suck it and see'. However it appears you are cloning photoperiods so that changes stuff. You should do what ever makes you happy, if you make a mistake it will not be a disaster. The two blackberry kush in the same pot were topped at different stages, one at the 3rd node and one at the 2nd node. I wanted 10 main branches but I didn't want them on one plant. In the meantime I saw the difference in growth rate between the two. The third node is obviously better. But then I'd still top at the second node if I wanted to say put three plants in the same pot.


----------



## harrythehat (May 18, 2021)

Tried autos but find there an unruly bunch
Do what they want when they want and don't really suit having a lot of plants on the same system because of this.
Caused a messed up harvest with 40 on the system all same variety but because of there traits it gave a 5/6 week harvesting period could not add pk13/14 to finish 
Had some 6 foot others 12 inches
Defo a no no on multiple system.
Great for having a lot of different types going at the same time
Other downside is too many light hours and leccy wastage.
That is the main taboo to me Leccy.
Oh yes and they do alright on 12/12 as well, which is good to kick stubborn ones into flower

Current grow
Yes they've had a bashing and all self induced to which fully admit but with mitigating circumstances
Being bipolar can be a bitch As an attack caused missing a trick of changeover from winter to summer get big temp fluctuations here.
Causing a massive increase on veg time
Unfortunately the Hyenas on here won't allow anybody to make mistakes.
They like to slaughter there lambs. Oh and quickly if they can with cackles of laughter.

But to an old git like me. Who has withstood far worse abuse it's like water of a ducks back.

What you will see over the next few weeks is a quelling (what a wonderful word) quelling of the verbal diorreaha (spelling sometimes is rubbish btw)
What it will be is the hyenas will be making a meal of those words they spouted with so much venom.
Hope they don't choke too much as I am a very forgiving guy and able to forget what has been and move forward. Bipolar is great for that as well but get on my wrong side can be an obstinate bitch nah I don't go away.


----------



## rkymtnman (May 18, 2021)

hey sweetie, i'm just using the words you used. you made the claims and aren't able to back them up. 

not surprising from a guy that thinks NTT is not NFT>


----------



## Billy the Mountain (May 18, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> ......
> So when it went to 3.96 it would have done it in the past so I was not worried
> Would like to thank the guys who talked me into getting one.
> *Which by mistake has proven it can run PH 4 .*
> ...


That's completely wrong and contradictory to established horticultural science.
pH should always be in the 5.5-6.5 range with hydro

Science is real


----------



## harrythehat (May 18, 2021)

Billy the Mountain said:


> That's completely wrong and contradictory to established horticultural science.
> pH should always be in the 5.5-6.5 range with hydro
> 
> Science is real


So they say and why I have changed to a soft water nutrient which seems to have done the trick


----------



## harrythehat (May 18, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> hey sweetie, i'm just using the words you used. you made the claims and aren't able to back them up.
> 
> not surprising from a guy that thinks NTT is not NFT>


Honey if your still on about PH 9 it probably could.
But am not going to add PH up for any fucker even if it was to prove a point, Love.
The low pH came up because I was talked into giving proper readings which I am doing.
It's proven it can run at 4.0 and now it's being rectified wasn't worried as used that nutrient before and would have been low then
Now soft water nutrient seems to be doing the trick
And will post a record in a week as still building nute strength on left tank but right is running 1.8/2.0 
No NTT is not NFT as it will show sweetheart.


----------



## Billy the Mountain (May 18, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Honey if your still on about PH 9 it probably could.
> But am not going to add PH up for any fucker even if it was to prove a point, Love.
> The low pH came up because I was talked into giving proper readings which I am doing.
> *It's proven it can run at 4.0* and now it's being rectified wasn't worried as used that nutrient before and would have been low then
> ...


Again, the pH range for nutrient uptake in hydro is ~5.5-6.5
You've proved nothing and have contributed misinformation.
A pH of 4 will cause major issues, as will a pH of 9


----------



## harrythehat (May 18, 2021)

Billy the Mountain said:


> Again, the pH range for nutrient uptake in hydro is ~5.5-6.5
> You've proved nothing and have contributed misinformation.
> A pH of 4 will cause major issues, as will a pH of 9


Yes it may do on what you are using but has not on mine
The PH of 4 was found because of suddenly using meters again


----------



## Billy the Mountain (May 18, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Yes it may do on what you are using but has not on mine
> The PH of 4 was found because of suddenly using meters again


A pH of 4 is detrimental to any plant, including yours. 
Perhaps your meter needs calibration?


----------



## Wastei (May 18, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Honey if your still on about PH 9 it probably could.
> But am not going to add PH up for any fucker even if it was to prove a point, Love.
> The low pH came up because I was talked into giving proper readings which I am doing.
> *It's proven it can run at 4.0* and now it's being rectified wasn't worried as used that nutrient before and would have been low then
> ...





Billy the Mountain said:


> A pH of 4 is detrimental to any plant, including yours.
> Perhaps your meter needs calibration?


Sure you can, but how does your plants actually grow?

I think there's nothing wrong with that pen. Harry seems to be living on another planet where chemistry doesn't apply. He's a lost case I'm afraid, fun to read along to though.

He has such a big ego and strong will it's like arguing to a 4 year old.


----------



## harrythehat (May 18, 2021)

Billy the Mountain said:


> A pH of 4 is detrimental to any plant, including yours.
> Perhaps your meter needs calibration?


I thought that it could be out as it is only a cheap pen it is only a couple of weeks old it's been calibrated and checked when I was getting low readings and it is a ok checked it against my base water someone else came in possibly UK only 0.3 difference 
So don't think there's any problems
The changeover to soft water formula seems to have done the trick 
Will post some readings in a week


----------



## bk78 (May 18, 2021)

The forever vegging 12” plants

I’d have a couple weeks to go before harvest time


----------



## rkymtnman (May 18, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Honey if your still on about PH 9 it probably could


and if my arms were really wings, i could probably fly. 

stay in your lane, hairy.


----------



## rkymtnman (May 18, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> The changeover to soft water formula seems to have done the trick


lol.
the hanging gardens of babylon didn't need soft water nutes to grow shit.


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 18, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> So don't think there's any problems
> The changeover to soft water formula seems to have done the trick


No problems, but you had to switch formulas. Hmm.. Kinda sounds like there is a problem. Keep peddling.


----------



## rkymtnman (May 18, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> No problems, but you had to switch formulas. Hmm.. Kinda sounds like there is a problem. Keep peddling.


nope, nothing to see here. the real fix to tip burn is to get rid of the leaf apparently.


----------



## PJ Diaz (May 18, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Unfortunately the Hyenas on here won't allow anybody to make mistakes.


It's not a mistake if you do it intentionally, especially after being warned by growers with more experience, knowledge and wisdom. At that point it just becomes stubborn stupidity.


----------



## bk78 (May 18, 2021)

Billy the Mountain said:


> That's completely wrong and contradictory to established horticultural science.
> pH should always be in the 5.5-6.5 range with hydro
> 
> Science is real


he keeps changing it weekly, hence why his plants aren’t growing much at all.


----------



## harrythehat (May 18, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> lol.
> the hanging gardens of babylon didn't need soft water nutes to grow shit.


Your spot on there


----------



## harrythehat (May 18, 2021)

bk78 said:


> he keeps changing it weekly, hence why his plants aren’t growing much at all.


you did not look at the sheet to see when nutrient was changed it was not changed. Your totally out there bro


----------



## harrythehat (May 18, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> It's not a mistake if you do it intentionally, especially after being warned by growers with more experience, knowledge and wisdom. At that point it just becomes stubborn stupidity.


It was not done intentionally did you read what was written?


----------



## harrythehat (May 18, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> No problems, but you had to switch formulas. Hmm.. Kinda sounds like there is a problem. Keep peddling.
> [/QUOTE
> That wasn't a problem
> It was only changed because it was noted so low
> ...


----------



## harrythehat (May 18, 2021)

Change to soft water formula is giving more correct readings
Right tank has dialled in @6.16 PH with no adjustment
Left tank added a little PH down that's dropped to 5.8.
With little to no movement overnight on either readings

Strange A?
Soft water formula gives correct readings
Hard water formula in hard water gives readings to low. Hmmmm

I suppose it could be an error from the nutrient makers put too much acid in.
Fucking growers would love that!!

Could it be the system NTT works a little differently.

No that's impossible the blinkered vision guys have said it. So nothing can work different from NFT it's all been invented there is nothing to add

WTF does it grow soo much leaf
That's another vision that isn't really there. BV guys say leaf should. Stay LOL are you sure.
Well it isn't when I've took it away

WTF I can run @2.0 and higher
BV guys in NFT [email protected] WTF is that all about
Flower @1.4 yet nutrient makers say the plants EC is 2.0
BV guys say nutrient makers have got it wrong
Of course they have. LOL
They wouldn't scientifically take the plant apart to find this out would they?
Nutrient makers lie apparently to sell more nute
Of course they do.

It wouldn't be the system you are using cannot handle 2.0 would it
It wouldn't be the growth medium your using stopping you maintaining 2.0

While your still working it out. By the time you get an answer there could be a few more differences to sort out.
Happy growing guys and gals


----------



## twentyeight.threefive (May 19, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> It's proven it can run at 4.0 and now it's being rectified wasn't worried as used that nutrient before and would have been low then


Why did you have to rectify the pH since pH doesn't matter? Why wouldn't you just have left it where it was?


----------



## rkymtnman (May 19, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Nutrient makers lie apparently to sell more nute


they "made" you buy a soft water formula when the hard water formula was working fine.


----------



## harrythehat (May 19, 2021)

twentyeight.threefive said:


> Why did you have to rectify the pH since pH doesn't matter? Why wouldn't you just have left it where it was?


After getting the meter and finding it was low had already said I would run one to PH the other 
Not
As pH was extremely low I decided to change to soft water formula which has cured the low PH
Putting it untouched to 6.16 ph
The other added some pH down a little too much taking it down to 5.8

Of course I could have left one @ 3.96 but I didn't would you.


----------



## harrythehat (May 19, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> they "made" you buy a soft water formula when the hard water formula was working fine.
> View attachment 4904351


Would not matter what was said or how it was done it would be wrong in your book.


----------



## twentyeight.threefive (May 19, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> After getting the meter and finding it was low had already said I would run one to PH the other
> Not
> As pH was extremely low I decided to change to soft water formula which has cured the low PH
> Putting it untouched to 6.16 ph
> ...


No I'd never let it get to 4 as I know pH matters.


----------



## Wastei (May 19, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Would not matter what was said or how it was done it would be wrong in your book.


It's not what's "wrong" or "right" that should matter in life Hairy. That mentality will only hold you back and you'll find yourself alone in the corner of the room.

Life's about what works for common good. That means you need to learn how to read and listen properly and steadily work in terms of understanding your own shortcomings and room for improvements.

That's what @rkymtnman means by his statement. It's not that the hard water formula didn't work it's your incapability to learn and understand what's in said formula and how to use it. There's measures people do to regulate mineral ionic exchange and pH in hydroponics. You instead choose to blame the formula.

You're to strong willed and proud to see your own shortcomings. You need to start building curiosity and learn what works for others and what they do to operate a stable hydroponic system.

You're not following recommendations and numbers supported by science and anecdotal evidence. You can't expect people to praise your work.


----------



## twentyeight.threefive (May 19, 2021)

Wastei said:


> You're to strong willed and proud to see your own shortcomings.


This.


----------



## harrythehat (May 19, 2021)

rkymtnman said:


> they "made" you buy a soft water formula when the hard water formula was working fine.
> View attachment 4904351


LOL no one made nothing
Got a nice big bowl of humble pie cooking for yah


----------



## harrythehat (May 19, 2021)

Wastei said:


> It's not what's "wrong" or "right" that should matter in life Hairy. That mentality will only hold you back and you'll find yourself alone in the corner of the room.
> 
> Life's about what works for common good. That means you need to learn how to read and listen properly and steadily work in terms of understanding your own shortcomings and room for improvements.
> 
> ...


And even when you do follow recommendations 
There's twats like yourself still sniping and saying it's all been done. You have blinkered vision my friend


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## harrythehat (May 19, 2021)

Here's another point for you guys to mull over.

You guys use pH down. Yes?

My system looks to be trending with a downward PH so to correct will have to use PH up.

Too have a PH that moves down means there is a greater gaseous exchange of oxygen going into the water and CO2 out. Even with plant eating nutrient pH still goes down.

A ph that moves up. This is down to lower nutrient levels.which you guys run. The plant eating the nutrient causes PH to rise.

That being said.
Makes my system sort of the polar opposite of yours does it not?
would much prefer a civil conversation if that is possible.
Will carry on like it is. That's BP for yah.

Nutrient change to soft water gave an initial reading of 6.16 next day 6.17 (1 point probably meter fluctuation)
Today 5.4
Other tank showed similar but lower as that got PH to 5.8 the first day, today is 4.41
ECs are 2.0 and 1.8/2.0
Wether the PH has bottomed out or going lower. Tomorrow will tell.

As there is nothing in the tank baring a 1 inch rockwool block there's nothing to affect the PH
Did a bit of research coming up with the gaseous exchange. And lower nutrient levels causing PH to rise.
Could it be NTT does exist?


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## twentyeight.threefive (May 20, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Here's another point for you guys to mull over.
> 
> You guys use pH down. Yes?
> 
> ...


All hail Harry the inventor of NTT.


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## Wastei (May 20, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Here's another point for you guys to mull over.
> 
> You guys use pH down. Yes?
> 
> ...


Let's not follow recommendations and scientific knowledge. Let's find another bogus term that only affect pH to a very small degree to justify our bad numbers and sad looking plants.

"Gaseous exchange" doesn't lower pH by 1 whole point in a couple of days. You have an ongoing problem, as long as you don't follow recommendations you will experience problems. 

Your pH is low because you're feeding to high EC, but "pH is not a problem in NTT" so you already have everything figured out right? All hail Harry our self entitled hydro expert!


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## harrythehat (May 20, 2021)

twentyeight.threefive said:


> All hail Harry the inventor of NTT.


No not me M8 I'm a fraud ask Wasteid


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## Wastei (May 20, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> No not me M8 I'm a fraud ask Wasteid


Fraudulent imply you actually need to sell a product you know doesn't work. I think you do neither. I think we've all already come to the conclusion you're just blinded by your own self entitled ego. 

Everyone else anecdotal evidence and numbers are just simply wrong. We're all lying fools by Harrys own standards and reasoning. He's the almighty with all the answers. Hail Harry!


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## rkymtnman (May 20, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> No not me M8 I'm a fraud ask Wasteid


i don't think you are a fraud. 

you just can't back up your beliefs/theories with proof, that's all.


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## PJ Diaz (May 20, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> No not me M8 I'm a fraud  fool ask Wasteid


FIFY


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## 2com (May 20, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I almost never remove leaves in veg, but I have been known to do it in order to intentionally stunt the plants, if I've over-vegged and need to bide time before my current flowering cycle is done an I am able to throw the over-vegged plants into flower.. *I've also heard of people removing the leaves on the dominant shoot in order to stunt that shoot, and get the less dominant shoots to catch up for a more even canopy. I'm not sure how well that actually works, but It seems to make a bit of sense in theory.*


It works in practice. It works fantastically. it's probably the one and only thing I picked tried from that gml character I really appreciate. Of course, he's called it "the gml topping technique". And I haven't bothered to think up something better.
It works incredibly well, honestly. I don't even remember how I used to even a plants tops/canopy prior to this technique.
It's not exactly how you put it, though. You, well let me just say how "I" do it, I might have modified it a _tiny bit_.

First, you don't just take all the leaves on the dominant shoot/shoots(s). You're supposed to take just the newest/youngest growth/leaf on said shoot. As long as it's big enough to have some actual stem (petiole) on it. Sometimes, I'll also take the next one or two down (for various reasons). You have to keep up on it, and apply it to any new "leaders" that try and take off past the rest, for best "even" results.
I can try and be more detailed if anybody wants. You might be able to find a video the guy did on it..I think.


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## PJ Diaz (May 20, 2021)

2com said:


> It works in practice. It works fantastically. it's probably the one and only thing I picked tried from that gml character I really appreciate. Of course, he's called it "the gml topping technique". And I haven't bothered to think up something better.
> It works incredibly well, honestly. I don't even remember how I used to even a plants tops/canopy prior to this technique.
> It's not exactly how you put it, though. You, well let me just say how "I" do it, I might have modified it a _tiny bit_.
> 
> ...


Yeah I heard it from GML too.


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## GnarlyNuggs (May 20, 2021)

Wattzzup said:


> OP I think you’re mixed up. Day 21 of flower not veg.  It will look different and make more sense on day 21 of flower.


I second that. Day 21 (third week) of flower is when you defoliate. Those plants look way too small to be defoliated. They need to be bushy and over flowing with leaves in order to be defoliated. Defoliation opens up areas for light and helps with air flow.


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## Chip Green (May 20, 2021)

I do a complete, 100% defoliation on every single plant that I flower. Typically that happens somewhere around day 63 after the flip, just prior to de-stemming the rootball.
Amazing results.


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## bk78 (May 24, 2021)

Wonder how Harry is doing


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## rkymtnman (May 24, 2021)

took a time machine back to the hanging gardens of babylon to get some advice on trickling.


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## harrythehat (May 24, 2021)

bk78 said:


> Wonder how Harry is doing


Harry's doing fine M8
Know I made a fuck up on this grow.
But coming on here has brought up some good findings.
Was agged into giving proper readings.
Got a P.H meter and a shock to find have been running a P.H of sub 4s for many years yet still with successful grows.
Bipolar just kept me on the same track. LOL brain says been tested, so doesn't need doing again.
How wrong.
Though I will say plants when looking closely did show some defects to leaves, though nothing much hence why I left it as was.
So kick in the bollox P.H running at 3.96
Oh says he though not to worried let's look at a change.
Got soft water nutes
P.H the left tank right tank no adjustment.
FUCK ME
48 hours later left tank had dropped to 4.41
Right tank 5.24
After 4 days right tank was 4.35 changed nutes
48 hours later P.H had dropped to 5.58
Right tank E.C had risen added some water to take it down P.H raised .7 yet next day was back to5.56
Couple ofdays later E.C raised again same thing added water knocked E.C down P.H rises slightly
But goes back down.
Now am letting E.C rise to see where P.H. goes.

No doubt the boys on here will have a ravage at my words
The sheet is here the figures don't lie
P.H is not a problem. 
Looks pretty much like it's regulating itself in the sweet spot sufficiently enough not to have to adjust
More testing will tell


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## PJ Diaz (May 24, 2021)




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## harrythehat (May 25, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> View attachment 4908708


Is that all you can do? Cant put in a sensible word
Just have to take the piss
Shows the mentality


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## PJ Diaz (May 25, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Is that all you can do? Cant put in a sensible word
> Just have to take the piss
> Shows the mentality


Bro, you don't like Krazy George? That dude is a fucking legend! Heck I still remember him cheering on Joe Montana to multiple Super Bowl victories back in the 80's. You watch your mouth about the way you speak of Krazy George. What are you gonna do next, make fun of this guy?..


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## twentyeight.threefive (May 25, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Harry's doing fine M8
> Know I made a fuck up on this grow.
> But coming on here has brought up some good findings.
> Was agged into giving proper readings.
> ...


Since pH doesn't matter why are you bothering checking it and changing it?


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## rkymtnman (May 25, 2021)

twentyeight.threefive said:


> Since pH doesn't matter why are you bothering checking it and changing it?


why bother with anything if you just keep defoling a plant too? so many unanswered questions in this thread


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## harrythehat (May 25, 2021)

Was asked to show P.Hd


twentyeight.threefive said:


> Since pH doesn't matter why are you bothering checking it and changing it?


Was asked to give a written record 
With that will thank Tvanmunhen for agging me into doing it.
With that found I was and have been running around 4.0 and below with an E.C of 2.0
For many years like 20 because I threw the meters away.
That's the reckless side of Bipolar for you.
Don't get me wrong had no problems with growing in this range with good harvests, though close inspection of leaf did show a little problem, but I didn't worry about it.
Getting meters showed was time for a change
Wouldn't you when you are sitting at the lower end?

Changing to soft water formula
Is showing P.H after its settled pretty much around the sweet spot. To which am happy to leave it there.
Currently looking @ what a higher E.C does to P.H see if it goes lower


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## harrythehat (May 25, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> Bro, you don't like Krazy George? That dude is a fucking legend! Heck I still remember him cheering on Joe Montana to multiple Super Bowl victories back in the 80's. You watch your mouth about the way you speak of Krazy George. What are you gonna do next, make fun of this guy?..


M8 where did I mention Crazy George.? Don't know the guy. As am UK. No would never insult a leg end.
Was aimed at you if you have questions more than willing to talk them through. O k if you don't like the answer I can't help that
What it will be is a true answer.


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## PJ Diaz (May 26, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> M8 where did I mention Crazy George.? Don't know the guy. As am UK. No would never insult a leg end.
> Was aimed at you if you have questions more than willing to talk them through. O k if you don't like the answer I can't help that
> What it will be is a true answer.


I don't know what a "leg end" is, but it sounds like you just insulted Wavy Gravy to me. smh


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## harrythehat (May 26, 2021)

Typo


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## harrythehat (May 26, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> I don't know what a "leg end" is, but it sounds like you just insulted Wavy Gravy to me. smh


That was a typo but a foot is a leg end is it not


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## PJ Diaz (May 26, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> That was a typo but a foot is a leg end is it not


No idea, I don't speak British.


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## harrythehat (May 26, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> No idea, I don't speak British.


Not do I 
English is the general language
Unless u wish to use the myriad of other nations language in this country. Mind you won't get a reply from me if you do as I'm British through and through


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## PJ Diaz (May 26, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Not do I


I still don't understand your Brits talk. Sorry.


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## harrythehat (May 26, 2021)

Predictive text is a butt wipe at times it was meant to be
Nor do I
If you do not understand the word Nor 
It is a predictive word a bit like the text on these things but a bit better


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## PJ Diaz (May 26, 2021)

Whoever claimed that Brits speak proper English was clearly wrong.


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## Wastei (May 26, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> Whoever claimed that Brits speak proper English was clearly wrong.


I think he has his own bro science terms like "trickling technique" etc. Harry's like: - "I knowingly choose the wrong words with my predictive text suggestions."

Predictive text is something you type yourself, it's just suggestions. Harry doesn't understand the difference between autocorrect and predictive text. Get your terminology right Mr. Trickle!


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## twentyeight.threefive (May 26, 2021)

He treats predictive text like his pH.


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## harrythehat (May 26, 2021)

PJ Diaz said:


> Whoever claimed that Brits speak proper English was clearly wrong.


M8 ima Cockney through an through never professed to speak English properly drop me Hs and alsorts
But as we are not talking more typing Hs don't get dropped but having fat fingers typos happen fuckin live with it


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## 2com (May 29, 2021)

@harrythehat 
The mentality is basically...gang trolling. You're being trolled. You can 'simply' ignore them, or you can hover or click on a user name and choose to (actively) ignore them.
Acting like wee bellends, haha. (I duno if bell ends is given a space, a hyphen or written as one word these days). Carry on, do whatever you want.
"The power is in the flow", hah! It does sound a bit like a "new age" mantra. Or, a marketing catch phrase that some popular manufacturer or other might use. *Floraflex; the power is in the flow*.


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## harrythehat (May 30, 2021)

2com said:


> @harrythehat
> The mentality is basically...gang trolling. You're being trolled. You can 'simply' ignore them, or you can hover or click on a user name and choose to (actively) ignore them.
> Acting like wee bellends, haha. (I duno if bell ends is given a space, a hyphen or written as one word these days). Carry on, do whatever you want.
> "The power is in the flow", hah! It does sound a bit like a "new age" mantra. Or, a marketing catch phrase that some popular manufacturer or other might use. *Floraflex; the power is in the flow*.


Don't I just know it LOL. It's more fun biting back that's my BP side
And enjoyable when they cannot come back with an answer. Just blurble that makes no sense.
Bellends works either way Bell ends, still has the same ring to it.

Yes the power is in the flow may sound a little crass ATM 
But when you look through they've survived 2 X killing attempts
Still providing more defoliation than any other. Plus about 100 flowering heads coming up
Ok may only get about 150 grams this time
Still around a gram per watt on a fuck up
And there's always next time


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## harrythehat (May 31, 2021)

Time to change nutrient 18 days in and little cherries are starting to show
Moved onto Ionic soft water bloom
P.H is much better happy enough not to bother to p.h it further down
From fresh nutes added P.H takes 48 hours to drop 
Trying to change P.H before it drops was/is dodgy but no doubt it could be worked out after a couple of goes.
As seen on left tank first 4 days on sheet.
More than happy with what the P.H is doing
So just leaving them to run
E.C going higher doesn't seem to affect P.H either


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## harrythehat (Jun 3, 2021)

Time for another defoliating session.
Going deep this time giving those buds lower down some light
Too me this is an important defoliation timing wise


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## harrythehat (Jun 5, 2021)

Heads r starting to build now


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## bk78 (Jun 30, 2021)

How’s the garden doing LARRY?


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## twentyeight.threefive (Jun 30, 2021)

bk78 said:


> How’s the garden doing LARRY?


Chopped down while looking super ripe.
International man of mystery is off to Zimbabwe.


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## bk78 (Jun 30, 2021)

twentyeight.threefive said:


> Chopped down while looking super ripe.
> International man of mystery is off to Zimbabwe.
> 
> View attachment 4933870



Like why even hang and dry that. Those buds are smaller than my pinky fingernail 

plus he’s gotta get off to Zimbabwe I thought for his meetings with executives over his NFT system?


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## twentyeight.threefive (Jun 30, 2021)

bk78 said:


> Like why even hang and dry that. Those buds are smaller than my pinky fingernail
> 
> plus he’s gotta get off to Zimbabwe I thought for his meetings with executives over his NFT system?


Nevermind the size. They will smell like hay and give him a migraine.


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## harrythehat (Jun 30, 2021)

No worries been nuking to dry it and it still smokes better than the cack off the streets.

Small but sweet.
Yes

Oh I'm going to Zimbabwe
Oh to plant a factory. Under LED. In sunny Zimbabwe.

Should be sung to the tune of Oh I'm going to Barbados 
LOL.

Guys it's your chance to slag me down even more as it will be videod or time lapsed put up on this and many other platforms (live).

A nice friendly challenge against Bato buckets and guppieponics.
Winner of the challenge gets to fit out the greenhouses. Oh did I mention it's 400 hectares
Some 10 times bigger than the world's largest planned cannabis cultivation centre in Australia.
Happy growing peeps


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## twentyeight.threefive (Jul 1, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> No worries been nuking to dry it and it still smokes better than the cack off the streets.
> 
> Small but sweet.
> Yes
> ...


You sure you aren't going there just to ditch your charges back home? Don't you have court coming up in a few days? 

I'd you're microwaving that stuff you showed in photos and it's better than stuff in the streets, then I feel bad for your streets.


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## sunasun (Jul 19, 2021)

harrythehat said:


> Strange no one wants to answer how many times they defoliate
> Am I doing something wrong
> Still have another ten sessions booked. LOL


Just once, right after the cotyledons appear. Saves so much time that way.


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## ImpulsiveGrower (Jul 20, 2021)

I also snip some fan leaves early on but not that much. When I have 5-6 nodes I top and at the same time I snip the two fan leaves at the top of the plant. They usually overlap the fan leaves below and those leaves catch light energy and the two new tops form and the two nodes right below it stretch out. I tuck the rest of the leaves and wait to take anything until later in veg. I do agree tho you shouldn’t really be going after defoliation so early on… good luck


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## bk78 (Dec 15, 2021)

Wonder if Harry is still kicking it in Zimbabwe


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## sunasun (Dec 15, 2021)

bk78 said:


> Wonder if Harry is still kicking it in Zimbabwe


Hmm, time to defoliate?


----------

