# Suicide



## makaveli87 (Jul 12, 2008)

Hey, i'm just wondering what peoples views and philosophies are with regards to suicide and the afterlife. What i mean to say is, what is your spiritual or religious beliefs views on if someone commits suicide? would they encounter a different path once they die? If so what happens to them?

So if you're religious, what is your religions take on the subject?
If you're not, what is your personal perspective or belief?

Personally i believe if there is judgment, it is on how one lived their life, not how they died.


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## wackymack (Jul 12, 2008)

suicide is also considered a selfish act,i hate the ppl who kill them selves/"attempt" suicide


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## panselmo1989 (Jul 12, 2008)

well if they feel they have no place left onthe earth, by all means end your suffering. if suicide is a selfish act. so is trying to prevent it.


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## wackymack (Jul 12, 2008)

preventing it helps to save someone,so preventin isnot selfish,ur helping someone that wants to throw in the towel and hurt others emotionally


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## makaveli87 (Jul 12, 2008)

panselmo1989 said:


> if suicide is a selfish act. so is trying to prevent it.


this is true


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## makaveli87 (Jul 12, 2008)

wackymack said:


> ur helping someone that wants to throw in the towel and hurt others emotionally


Just because someone is going to commit suicide does not always mean they want to hurt someone. They may just want to stop the hurt they feel themselves.


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## panselmo1989 (Jul 12, 2008)

Why would you help anyone who doesnt want it, doesnt need it, doesnt want your shit advise. Their minds made up to go ahead and die. Whats done is done so why cry. - Pantera.

Not all people are really looking to die. But for the ones that truly do want and need to relief of a terrible life, I think its pretty selfish to try and make them stay miserable. As for the little kids in the world who wish to attempt Suicide for the attention...Get a Hobby.


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## KAOSOWNER (Jul 12, 2008)

I think suicide is permanant even in the after life, meaning if you kill yourself there is no afterlife for you. I also think it is a way for the cowardly and weak to have a way out. Life is hard and depressing for most but we carry on anyway. Now my opinion is abit different for the seriously mentally ill.


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## wackymack (Jul 12, 2008)

im talkin about the stupid bullshit ppl,ones say they are overand over,few years ago my cousin tridd killin her self,she put scratches horizontally across both wrist,last week i had to deal wit a few ppl that "were" goin to,one kid took "30"tylenol pm cus he didnt want to go to work anymore.he lived

im just sick of the bullshit ppl with mental issues,if someone is goin to kill there selves then yes they wouldve done it already,they dont talk about it,they,just do it(nike)


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## jollygreengiant8 (Jul 12, 2008)

suicide is so far from my mindset that it is hard to think about it seriously. ive never been far enough down to even begin entertaining the thought of suicide.

with that said, its a terrible thing. about 6 months ago a guy 19 yrs old in the fraternity i was in shot himself with a 12 gauge once his gf broke up with him. to me this makes absolutely no sense and seems selfish, he had more friends than i could ever imagine who would have been there to help him through.

he was a baby, hadnt experienced shit that life has to offer. and now he lays 6 ft under without ever knowing what was around the corner for him.


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## makaveli87 (Jul 12, 2008)

wackymack said:


> they dont talk about it,they,just do it(nike)


This is what i am referring to. what do you believe is in store for someone who just does it?


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## wackymack (Jul 12, 2008)

12g way to go,no attemptin on life support. quickest way to go to,beside od


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## makaveli87 (Jul 12, 2008)

jollygreengiant8 said:


> he was a baby, hadnt experienced shit that life has to offer. and now he lays 6 ft under without ever knowing what was around the corner for him.


True, suicide is often the dumbest thing you could do.


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## panselmo1989 (Jul 12, 2008)

its sad to think that kid will never know what life had in store for him.


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## jollygreengiant8 (Jul 12, 2008)

i believe once you are dead, you begin to rot, and that is all that happens.
you return to nature.


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## makaveli87 (Jul 12, 2008)

EDIT: thanks for the reposes people, happy toking.


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## Lacy (Jul 12, 2008)

*A Lot of people feel this way*


wackymack said:


> suicide is also considered a selfish act,i hate the ppl who kill them selves/"attempt" suicide





panselmo1989 said:


> well if they feel they have no place left onthe earth, by all means end your suffering. if suicide is a selfish act. so is trying to prevent it.


*because sometimes it is just an attempt to reach out for help. *



wackymack said:


> preventing it helps to save someone,so preventin isnot selfish,ur helping someone that wants to throw in the towel and hurt others emotionally





makaveli87 said:


> Just because someone is going to commit suicide does not always mean they want to hurt someone. They may just want to stop the hurt they feel themselves.


*EXACTLY. They aren't evil people. Some mental torture is more painful than physical and some people feel they have no way out.*
*To say someone is selfish is just plain ignorant. I am not saying it is right or it is wrong...it just is.*

*Obviously if someone is suicidal....they are NOT in the right frame of mind and to judge them in this state as their overall character is just wrong. People who are suicidal are not mentally stable and they last thing they need is some heartless person with no empathy or compassion for others, in their face about it.*

*Very sad. *



panselmo1989 said:


> Why would you help anyone who doesnt want it, doesnt need it, doesnt want your shit advise. Their minds made up to go ahead and die. Whats done is done so why cry. - Pantera.*very sad*
> 
> Not all people are really looking to die. But for the ones that truly do want and need to relief of a terrible life, I think its pretty selfish to try and make them stay miserable. As for the little kids in the world who wish to attempt Suicide for the attention...Get a Hobby.


*I have to agree also but sometimes someone needs to intervene.*
*I think it is very sad that we can take our pets in to be *
*'put to sleep' when they are either dying or suffereing BUT yet humans do not get the same compassion?*

*If someone is suffering a fatal disease and wants to end thier life earlier to save all concerned, then i think they should have that right.*

*It probably isn't a popular viewpoint but thats how I wish it were. *


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## darkarms (Jul 12, 2008)

wackymack said:


> suicide is also considered a selfish act,i hate the ppl who kill them selves/"attempt" suicide


I have been to the point of wanting to kill myself about every other week. Being this depressed is life altering. I cant manage to hold a job.... or manage to get an education. If i go to work on a bad day i end up flipping out on someone and loosing my job and the same goes for school. whether it be a teacher, best friend, girlfriend, or my own mother. I have lost alot of people that i feel to be close to me (they arnt dead but they are still out of my life) and its all because of the person that i am.

The way i feel in real life when i get in these moods is really hard to explain. But the only way i can explain it would be .... I feel dead to the world.

Anyway im sorry i guess the whole point im trying to make is. People who get emotionally hurt by loosing someone important to them will get over it and live their lifes. People who are "suicide risks" are stuck with feelings that are 10x worse then the feelings that come with loosing somoene.

"suicide is the pussys way out" "only selfish people kill themselves" 

NEVER say those words to anyone who is ready to kill themselves those words almost pushed me over then edge.

Its people like you that cause half of the suicides. When someone feels like a piece of shit the last thing they need is to be called selfish or a pussy. Id just like to say go fuck yourself. You might as well shoot them in the head yourself.

Sorry about all the confusing text. i am very bad at expressing myself.


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## brendon420 (Jul 12, 2008)

permanent problem to a temporary solution, been there done that, wont ever go back.


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 12, 2008)

It takes a lot of courage to sever an artery or down a bottle of lye....cowards don't commit suicide. I think...it's your life...do what you want with it, including ending it.


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## overfiend (Jul 12, 2008)

You only come this way once, it is no dress rehersal 

besides i have many more grows left in me.


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## Lacy (Jul 12, 2008)

*You expressed yoursefl very well*


darkarms said:


> I have been to the point of wanting to kill myself about every other week. Being this depressed is life altering. I cant manage to hold a job.... or manage to get an education. If i go to work on a bad day i end up flipping out on someone and loosing my job and the same goes for school. whether it be a teacher, best friend, girlfriend, or my own mother. I have lost alot of people that i feel to be close to me (they arnt dead but they are still out of my life) and its all because of the person that i am.
> 
> The way i feel in real life when i get in these moods is really hard to explain. But the only way i can explain it would be .... I feel dead to the world.
> 
> ...





Stoney McFried said:


> It takes a lot of courage to sever an artery or down a bottle of lye....cowards don't commit suicide. I think...it's your life...do what you want with it, including ending it.





brendon420 said:


> permanent problem to a temporary solution, been there done that, wont ever go back.


 *Been there done that also and wish i could say I would never go back but unfortunately I can't.  *
*The only thing worse than wanting to commit suicide is not succeeding.  *
*They lock you up and throw away the key forever.*


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## darkarms (Jul 12, 2008)

Lacy said:


> *You expressed yoursefl very well*


Heh took like 40 mins to do it 
Thanks.


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## KidCreole (Jul 12, 2008)

"permanent problem to a temporary solution, been there done that, wont ever go back."

i agree. usually the pain is so overwhelming that you can think of no other way to combat it. but if you allow the pain to pass without making any harsh decisions, you will usually find a light at the end of the tunnel. Im coming out of a two year bout of depression that encompassed many things, living day to fay felt absolutely pointless, but thinking of the additional pain i would cause my mother if she had to come to the morgue to identify her son made me just try to survive another 5 minutes or so. Now things are looking better and life seems to have eased up a bit, not saying everything is perfect, but im alive and life will and can go on.


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## trippymonkey (Jul 12, 2008)

I think it's sometimes hard for people to understand how anyone could choose suicide if they haven't been there. 
Also, I don't believe that most people who commit suicide are selfish. If you can call them selfish for killing themselves, and in turn, hurting the people who love them, then can't you also reasonably conclude that it's selfish of people to think that someone who is in immense pain should stick around and endure it so they don't hurt others? Either way you look at it, it can be deemed selfish.
I personally see nothing wrong with suicide. I can understand why people would do it. Especially when you've suffered from depression for years and treatment hasn't helped and you truly don't enjoy living.
Just my opinion, though.


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## Woomeister (Jul 12, 2008)

I have personal experience of suicide and it is not by any means as cut and dried as many people who have posted before me may think. Prozac is responsible for a high number of teenage suicides in the Uk and when placed on it myself over 15 years ago I had suicidal tendencies that were both very real and very confusing as I did not want to die. mind altering substances that mess around with your emotions are dangerous and can cause people to do things they would otherwise not dream of doing. To answer the original question, we all die and rot or burn- THE END.


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## trippymonkey (Jul 12, 2008)

One theory of why people commit suicide AFTER being placed on antidepressants is that they finally have the energy to carry out plans that they have been ruminating over for a long time. Depression often makes you so depressed you don't have the energy to do anything, let alone kill yourself.


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## Woomeister (Jul 12, 2008)

trippymonkey said:


> One theory of why people commit suicide AFTER being placed on antidepressants is that they finally have the energy to carry out plans that they have been ruminating over for a long time. Depression often makes you so depressed you don't have the energy to do anything, let alone kill yourself.


I was on Prozac for acute anxiety not depression. The prozac actually made me depressed!


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 12, 2008)

I'm prescribed prozac as well. It makes me numb.


Woomeister said:


> I was on Prozac for acute anxiety not depression. The prozac actually made me depressed!


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## Woomeister (Jul 12, 2008)

Stoney McFried said:


> I'm prescribed prozac as well. It makes me numb.


 Yes I understand what you mean. Luckily I was able to get off it after 2 years. When I was on it I knew I had issues to deal with and knew I had responsibilities still but thats as far as it went, no action. I used to feel as if I was in a state of perpetual limbo with no emotional response to any situation, just a visual perspective.


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## trippymonkey (Jul 12, 2008)

Prozac was the first they thing they ever prescribed me for my depression. It didn't help me whatsoever, in fact, none of the ssri's helped me at all. And I know what you mean about it making you depressed. Welbutrin did the same thing to me.


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## GuNjAhLoRd (Jul 12, 2008)

no offence i think people who kill them selves are weak its easy to kill yourself its harder to just stick it out maintain and get the fuck over yourself
suicides shit thou shell not commit murder (or something like that) even if its yourself


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 12, 2008)

Not everyone believes in the bible, and thus, the ten commandments. Suicide is not easy. Try to hack through your wrist with a razor...it requires a lot of sticktoitiveness.


GuNjAhLoRd said:


> no offence i think people who kill them selves are weak its easy to kill yourself its harder to just stick it out maintain and get the fuck over yourself
> suicides shit thou shell not commit murder (or something like that) even if its yourself


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## caliboy80 (Jul 12, 2008)

i think if some one wants to end their own life that is their cloice..
i think if u die naturally or by suacide its all the same as reguards after life.... perminant darkness... nothing else...

we are just here by luck that its the right temp here there is water etc.......

live and let live
or
live and let die


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## GuNjAhLoRd (Jul 12, 2008)

i aint no bible pusher if i had too i would do the 12 gauge thing suppose you got balls to hack at your wrists with a blde fuck that


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 12, 2008)

Hey, so would blowing your brains out.Think about it....to end your life, not knowing if you float in limbo, or go to hell, or become nothing?Pretty scary.


GuNjAhLoRd said:


> i aint no bible pusher if i had too i would do the 12 gauge thing suppose you got balls to hack at your wrists with a blde fuck that


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## GuNjAhLoRd (Jul 12, 2008)

yeah but unless a 12 gauge would be instant and hopefully painless i hope to come back as a dolphin unless they have sex for pleasure surely it doesnt just end


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## caliboy80 (Jul 12, 2008)

i think it does just end.. i hope im wrong but id very much doubt that a person could come back as a animal, would a dog b able to b a human, anyway if u did come back as something else u would not remember being a human so it does not mane sence to me..

like if there is an after life are all the early humans up there still not able to speak the launuage we speak now??

sorry for being so negative bout the matter but thats my opinion, hope im wrong tho...

and i think if 60% of ppl who killed themselves, did nt go through it i think most of them would eventually find peace of mind.. its a split second moment thing i think.. if u leave it a day or 2 stay calm.. time is a healer..
and i think its better to b alive and have a shit life than to b dead and have nothing what so ever going on.. we will all b dead in 50 - 100 years anyway unless some of ye live very healthy life styles ...

god i love this strawberry cough....


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## jollygreengiant8 (Jul 12, 2008)

i think if firearms were not an option of suicide, many people wouldnt go through with it.
i did some quick research and found that about 55% of all suicides were done with guns.

IMO its easier to pull a trigger and end it than cutting wrists or suffocating/hanging.

If a gun isnt an option then they would have to put forth a little effort and endure mass pain.


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## caliboy80 (Jul 12, 2008)

thants a really good point!


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## mexiblunt (Jul 12, 2008)

jollygreengiant8 said:


> i think if firearms were not an option of suicide, many people wouldnt go through with it.
> i did some quick research and found that about 55% of all suicides were done with guns.
> 
> IMO its easier to pull a trigger and end it than cutting wrists or suffocating/hanging.
> ...


Is that in the world? or just one country? I'm in canada and I've lost two friends in three years, pills, hanging.


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## sarah22 (Jul 12, 2008)

oh boy...i wish i had found this thread sooner. Now, i am typically a very warm hearted fun loving person who is nice to everyone. BUT...i absolutely cannot stand people who have big opinions about subjects like this...but NO FUCKING KNOWLEDGE. If you have never been in the position to want to kill yourself, u have no idea what its like. HOW DARE YOU say that its taking the easy way out. HOW DARE YOU call us weak and cowards. HOW DARE YOU say that we should just learn to deal with it. I have had a constant battle with suicidal thoughts and behaviours. Im a borderline psychotic and when Im in the middle of an episode...theres no thinking. no choice to be made. its pure reaction and pure instinct. I dont even remember my episodes once I get back to a more normal way of thinking. If you had to suffer day in and day out feeling numb, and empty inside, like no one cared about you, like you have no future that ur a waste of space, it would cross your mind too. I have wanted to kill myself not because I so badly want a way out...I have wanted to do it because I dont want to be a burden on my family anymore. I want them to be able to live normal lives without having to worry constantly about me, and without having to deal with my episodes. It is purely to help make their lives easier. Its the furthest thing from selfish. I cant believe that some people can be so bloody ignorant. but not to worry. people like you dont make me want to kill myself even more than before. not at all. people like you throw me into blood lust. u make me wanna live the life of a serial killer. but as for the original question...i believe that people who die via suicide would become ghosts. because typically they have unfinished business. especially if its a very sudden suicide that wasnt necessarily planned out...but either way...ur not thinking right and u will forget important things. so becoming a ghost is my theory.


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## jollygreengiant8 (Jul 12, 2008)

mexiblunt said:


> Is that in the world? or just one country? I'm in canada and I've lost two friends in three years, pills, hanging.


US statistics from 2001. sorry for your losses.


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## Lacy (Jul 12, 2008)

*Oh my goodness sarah hon. *


sarah22 said:


> oh boy...i wish i had found this thread sooner. Now, i am typically a very warm hearted fun loving person who is nice to everyone. BUT...i absolutely cannot stand people who have big opinions about subjects like this...but NO FUCKING KNOWLEDGE. If you have never been in the position to want to kill yourself, u have no idea what its like. HOW DARE YOU say that its taking the easy way out. HOW DARE YOU call us weak and cowards. HOW DARE YOU say that we should just learn to deal with it. I have had a constant battle with suicidal thoughts and behaviours. Im a borderline psychotic and when Im in the middle of an episode...theres no thinking. no choice to be made. its pure reaction and pure instinct. I dont even remember my episodes once I get back to a more normal way of thinking. If you had to suffer day in and day out feeling numb, and empty inside, like no one cared about you, like you have no future that ur a waste of space, it would cross your mind too. I have wanted to kill myself not because I so badly want a way out...I have wanted to do it because I dont want to be a burden on my family anymore.*People don't get this sarah. If these people could only spend a day in the lives of someone with mental disorders, they would think differently. *
> *I wasn;t gonna come back to this thread because it is so dark and erry but I just can't stay away from reading the different viewpoints. People are just ignorant sarah.*
> *They do not understand and what people do not understand....they fear.*
> *It is human nature to do so. We can;t really get angry with them because it is just out of ignorance.*
> *Its like getting angry at your kid for not comprehending something that they don';t have the ability to comprehend.* I want them to be able to live normal lives without having to worry constantly about me, and without having to deal with my episodes. It is purely to help make their lives easier. Its the furthest thing from selfish. I cant believe that some people can be so bloody ignorant. but not to worry. people like you dont make me want to kill myself even more than before. not at all. people like you throw me into blood lust. u make me wanna live the life of a serial killer. but as for the original question...i believe that people who die via suicide would become ghosts. because typically they have unfinished business. especially if its a very sudden suicide that wasnt necessarily planned out...but either way...ur not thinking right and u will forget important things. so becoming a ghost is my theory.


*I am not too sure about this. I think the people that die suddenly and don;'t understand that they are dead, don't find their way.*
*Their vibrations are just not high enough because they lost the connection to everything and everyone.*

*We are all connected to each other whether we choose to believe this or not. When you think of water H20...its hydrogen and water......2 gases....... but yet we see it as liquid.*
*Because we have egos we see ourselves as separate. The more ego we choose to use, which only causes fear, the more separate we will feel in our lives. The more we use our spirit or soul, they more connected we become. We actually raise our vibrations to a higher level.*

*Sarah. you are a wonderful person with such courage. *
*Gosh I culd truly hug you for real right now.*

*Gosh , that was extremely moving....I can;t see my screen.*


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## sarah22 (Jul 12, 2008)

awww thanks lacy. i just figure...its better to put it all out there in the hopes that people will have some insight as to what the mentally ill go thru on a day to day basis. i didnt really mean to get so worked up...it just really pisses me off...thats all...its a sensitive subject. but hopefully it will make someone stop and think...gee...what it must be like to live in their shoes...not everyone is given the natural gift of empathy...but im positive that it can be learned...all one has to do is try...


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## sarah22 (Jul 12, 2008)

oh...and yes i can get angry...because they're making judgments. i dont automatically assume that an overweight person is big because they eat to much. i dont make judgments until i know the whole story. but then again...im a natural empath. hmm, i have an idea!! free empathy lessons! i will do my best to explain and teach empathy to anyone whos interested!


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## Dfunk (Jul 13, 2008)

Lacy is a heartwarming person isn't she...I hope her guy knows how fortunate he is.


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## Lacy (Jul 13, 2008)

*..............................*


sarah22 said:


> awww thanks lacy. i just figure...its better to put it all out there in the hopes that people will have some insight as to what the mentally ill go thru on a day to day basis. i didnt really mean to get so worked up...it just really pisses me off...thats all...its a sensitive subject*Hey girl. I am the same poage as you wif this one.*
> *I am surprised at how little some people can empathize . I am a very deep person and have so much empathy that I am only just realizing that not ALL people have such deep feelings as we tend to.  and I think it scares the sh*t out of them because they not only don;t understand it but don't know what to say.*
> . but hopefully it will make someone stop and think...gee...what it must be like to live in their shoes...not everyone is given the natural gift of empathy...but im positive that it can be learned...all one has to do is try...





sarah22 said:


> oh...and yes i can get angry...because they're making judgments. i dont automatically assume that an overweight person is big because they eat to much. i dont make judgments until i know the whole story. but then again...im a natural empath. hmm, i have an idea!! free empathy lessons! i will do my best to explain and teach empathy to anyone whos interested!


*This is one subject that eats me up also sarah. I used to rack my brain trying to understand why others didn't understand but it just isn't worth it. When you end up trying to expain something so passionately, people tend to just zone out. I totally despise being judged ESPECIALLY about my mental disorders.*

*The thing is sarah, the only way people understand something like this is if they have someone who is very close to them, suffering from the same type of thing, OR they plummet into the black hole themselves and discover what it feels like. *

*I used to wish these ignorant people would plummet into a deep depression so that they can know what it feels like but *
*wtf.....I wouldn't wish THAT kind of PAIN on anyone. Its brutal. *

*Now I try and look at it from a more compassionate viewpoint being that most people just don't understand from pure ignorance.*
*Thats not a bad person. Just inexperienced and/or uneducated.*

*I just don't like to think that if people really understood the pain.....they would not talk this way.*


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## txhomegrown (Jul 18, 2008)

I dont think it is my place to tell anyone whethere it is right or wrong to take their own life. It is a very personal descision and if that person feels that they cant hang on another day and wade through the shit with the rest of us, all I can say is happy trails. Just dont take anybody with you that doesnt want to go. As far as how to do it, a gun is NOT the way. Too many people flinch at the last moment and just end up as a vegetable that will live a long life having to be taken care of by someone else. Hanging doesnt seem like a quick and easy way to go either. If you have to do it, score a shitload of opiates and OD. At least you cop a real good buzz on the way out. I tried to Od on beef jerky and beer one time but it didnt work So I am still here. Aint life grand?


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## blackout (Jul 18, 2008)

makaveli87 said:


> This is what i am referring to. what do you believe is in store for someone who just does it?


i know what is in store for their friends family and loved ones ,it can destroy them ,they think they are somehow to blame ,and what if ??? they had done this or that to help.
I am a single dad ,mainly because the mother is a fuckwit who tried several times ,i think for attention ,do you have any idea what that does to the kids, my girlfriends husband did kill himself ,no attention seeking there just did a proper job ,no turning back ,it really fucked his kids up ,and even several years after they have massive issues.
I also used to work in an i.c.u and have seen many who have tried ,and the effect on the familys ,ever see someone who has drank weedkiller , and instead of being dead they are in i.c.u with massive organ failure ,and family who are either fucking angry or sad ,or both , so any one who thinks about it DONT.


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## EarthlyPassions (Jul 18, 2008)

I was suicidal around 6th grade, I was struggling at school and I felt like I was giving my parents more trouble than I was worth. I just hated seeing my mom so upset and angry all the time, (later I found out she had just quit smoking cigarettes, and was taking diet pills to keep from gaining weight, bad mix!). She really wasn't herself at the time, but she got better (years later) after she stopped taking the diet drugs. I blamed myself though, and she told me as much.

I got up on our roof a few times, but I was held back by the fear that my mom would be embarrassed if the neighbors saw my body (and upset that she had to clean up the mess). Then I found out that if you took enough Tylenol's you could die. I had everything set up, I cleaned my room and did the dishes, was nice to my brother, but when I went to school that day (I went to a private Christian school) we were told that people who commit suicide go to hell. 
Well, that cleared up any thoughts of suicide. I didn't care how much trouble I caused my parents. They could suffer till I moved out. (Cue rebellious phase.) No way would I go to hell for eternity because my teachers were pissed that I read unrelated books in class and forgot my homework. 

I think people who are dieing of disease, like inoperable cancer, or irreversible dementia or the later stages of AIDS, should be allowed to die if they wish. The slow, agonizing deaths those sort of things cause shouldn't be forced on people.

I also think that people who want to die because of personal reasons should be allowed to as well. Had it not been for my Christian beliefs I most certainly would have chosen to die, rather than suffer through years of neglect and physical abuse. Had I not learned that I would have gone to hell for it, I don't think I would have. It doesn't make sense to me that God would punish an eleven year old for something she didn't know.
I think that extends to other people as well, if you don't know God, or if you believe something different, whatever you believe will happen to you happens. And if you don't believe in anything, you get recycled, sent back to Earth in a new body to try again.

I have to say that I'm glad I didn't go. Life, in general, is hard, but worthwhile if you play your cards right. By struggling through the tough stuff, I feel like my life has earned value, the good times are sweeter. And when the hard times come again, I know that if I work hard and stick through it life can be easy again too.


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## berbonber (Jul 21, 2008)

Suicide in my opinion (I have been on the verge of it myself so dont go shooting this next bit down) is incredibly selfish, the person killing themselves is only thinking of their own pain and not of the pain and the horrible unanswered questions their unexpected death leaves behind for friends and family members. In a lot of cases the persons who has commited suicide will not be the only one to die from the event, by this i mean that the suicide is often enough for others to give up hope in life and although they may not die physically emotionally they may be completely crushed or overwhelmed with guilt. If you ever feel like getting rid of yourself please, please think of the knock on effect you could have and try to struggle through it, some peoples tunnels may be longer but there is always light at the end.


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## sarah22 (Jul 21, 2008)

it would be nice if i could think about those things when im suicidal. had an attempt last week. theres no thinking involved at all...all u can think about is the death...and how bad u want it...nothing else matters. i usually dont even remember my episodes...i only know they happened because i have physical evidence. to refer to a suicidal person as "selfish" is really inaccurate. sorry. psychotic? maybe...selfish?...uh...no. not even close.


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## Johnnyorganic (Jul 21, 2008)

The label of suicide as cowardly or selfish is extremely subjective.

I am perfectly comfortable with assisted suicide, provided there are is a vigilant vetting process.

Suicide has touched my life.

One of my oldest and dearest friends came home from high school to find his father's brains all over the garage wall.

In the second case, it was an attempted suicide. Another old friend. He tried to asphyxiate himself by carbon monoxide. It's a miracle he survived. In a very large way, he didn't. His decision to kill himself and subsequent action, really did kill him. That was in 2001, now he's a walking corpse. Completely defeated. If he can get a job, he can't keep it. He says he's unemployable. He's afraid to go out in public. He is very content in his self-imposed isolation. He won't even answer the door unless he knows to expect you.


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## berbonber (Jul 21, 2008)

I am sorry if I offended either of you it is only my opinion based on things that have happened throughout my life. Seeing the emotional state of my grandparents as they tried to get my brother to get up and go to the ambulance has really cemented my view.


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## moggggys (Jul 21, 2008)

each to there own i recon with suicide 

there is no after life , fallacy perpetuated for control that should be condemned not promoted , medieval control still prevalent in the modern day


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 21, 2008)

In the documentary white light, black rain, A woman who had lived through the Hiroshima or Nagasaki blast talked about her sister throwing herself in front of a train. She explained it very well. Some people have the courage to live, and some have the courage to die.


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## EarthlyPassions (Jul 24, 2008)

Stoney McFried said:


> In the documentary white light, black rain, A woman who had lived through the Hiroshima or Nagasaki blast talked about her sister throwing herself in front of a train. She explained it very well. Some people have the courage to live, and some have the courage to die.


I think that's exactly the way to put it. The context of one's life certainly makes all the difference. But since the majority of the population sees death as such an abomination, it's hard for them to understand how it could ever seem like the better option.

I always wonder about people who commit suicide to avoid some sort of unspeakable suffering. Like spys who have a cyanide tooth, just in case they get caught. What happens to them when they die? Do they go to hell for the suicide, or do they get a pass because anyone would choose a painless death over being tortured to death?


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## tampicos (Jul 24, 2008)

you are 5 foot something, the earth is probably millions of times bigger and the sun is thousands times bigger than the earth. a red giant makes the sun seem like a dot on a wall. feel insignificant enough? whats funny though is that if you leave this world because you feel insignificant, what happens to that person who lived up the street who always had a crush on you and was never able to tell you it? or those who you might have said but a single word to and changed their path in life? it doesn't matter how insignificant you feel because as humans we don't know our own significance. live, cherish and enjoy.


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 24, 2008)

Then the person up the street shoulda said something.If you are meant to die, you WILL die, and nothing on earth can stop it.If you are meant to live, nothing will stop that.Sometimes WE are the instruments of karma and destiny,and the way foreward is thwarted if we don't follow it through.


tampicos said:


> you are 5 foot something, the earth is probably millions of times bigger and the sun is thousands times bigger than the earth. a red giant makes the sun seem like a dot on a wall. feel insignificant enough? whats funny though is that if you leave this world because you feel insignificant, what happens to that person who lived up the street who always had a crush on you and was never able to tell you it? or those who you might have said but a single word to and changed their path in life? it doesn't matter how insignificant you feel because as humans we don't know our own significance. live, cherish and enjoy.


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## tampicos (Jul 25, 2008)

but to die by your own hand? from reading the thread i've seen so many examples, good and bad, for people who kill themselves. i've never attempted to kill myself. i have had a very close friend hang herself. to this day her friends and i could never figure out why. she wasn't meant to kill herself. but now she's ashes on top of a fire place. i guess its self centered of me to wish that it would have never happened or even try and comprehend what ran through her mind. i would never say its escapism to kill yourself because i could never look at her that way. but i could never look her best friend in the eye again. her face i would swear is permanently streaked with tears. to hell with hell. karma and destiny, neither of which we can control but like strings we are controlled by them... don't forget the worst controlling force of them all, chaos.


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 25, 2008)

When you come right down to it, death is death.Irrevocable, and the destiny of us all.Not everyone was meant to die of old age.Not everyone can handle what goes on inside their own head.


tampicos said:


> but to die by your own hand? from reading the thread i've seen so many examples, good and bad, for people who kill themselves. i've never attempted to kill myself. i have had a very close friend hang herself. to this day her friends and i could never figure out why. she wasn't meant to kill herself. but now she's ashes on top of a fire place. i guess its self centered of me to wish that it would have never happened or even try and comprehend what ran through her mind. i would never say its escapism to kill yourself because i could never look at her that way. but i could never look her best friend in the eye again. her face i would swear is permanently streaked with tears. to hell with hell. karma and destiny, neither of which we can control but like strings we are controlled by them... don't forget the worst controlling force of them all, chaos.


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## tampicos (Jul 25, 2008)

but thoughts are instants and they change in heartbeats. emotions come and go. if anything we should cherish the randomness and learn that pain is an emotion that allows you to appreciate pleasure. if lost wasn't a state of mind, there never would be a found. 
i don't think anyone who can comprehend this should let go since reality allows you all the cards you'd ever need.


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 26, 2008)

Sometimes, life sucks hard, man.Try battling depression, severe clinical depression for years and let me know how rosy you feel.


tampicos said:


> but thoughts are instants and they change in heartbeats. emotions come and go. if anything we should cherish the randomness and learn that pain is an emotion that allows you to appreciate pleasure. if lost wasn't a state of mind, there never would be a found.
> i don't think anyone who can comprehend this should let go since reality allows you all the cards you'd ever need.


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## Prophecy (Jul 26, 2008)

This is the only thing the Christian Bible reveals on it that I know. Jesus Christ was sold by Judas Iscariot; Judas Iscariot committed suicide because of the overwhelming guilt in his conscience for selling out Jesus Christ into the hands of haters of the rightoeus. 

Jesus Christ persevered in the face of people hating him without right reason and as a reult conquered the wickedness and the sins of the world for those who put their faith through him in the Most High God.

So where Judas was selfish and committed suicide as a result of the Virtue of Jesus on his conscience;

Jesus Christ committed a selfless act whichis what comdemned those evil doers and haters of the righteous.

My point is if you want to commit suicide because so called loved ones are neglecting you or doing you wrong without reason, if you persevere in God's Words and remain faithful and true to your heart, you will truly dsee the Light and possess the Eternal Victory.

God bless the long sufferer.

I don't encourage it nor advocate it; I don't know with absolute certainty if its will lead to haeven or hell if a righteous person does it;

_*(This could be rema word/revelation knowledge):*_ they may have to come back and do the same thing again until they overcome it on earth; 

so it likely/probably benefit the person conosdering suicide to get your *long suffering* out of the way now and do it as right as you possibly can because there will be no getting around it(?).

Jesus Christ is able if you truly put your faith in God Most High through him, I testify to that. Jesus gives those who believe on him the ultimate Victory. Read your Bible for yourself, let Jesus be your pastor. Get you an NIV (New International Version) Study Bible) that's been a great help to me in addition to some college course/theology and psychology. 

*Fight for your Mind. The Truth Shall set you Free.*​ 

*"Greater is he within me then he that is in the world".*

*Your a diamond in the ruff.*​


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## Prophecy (Jul 26, 2008)

Prophecy said:


> This is the only thing the Christian Bible reveals on it that I know. Jesus Christ was sold by Judas Iscariot; Judas Iscariot committed suicide because of the overwhelming guilt in his conscience for selling out Jesus Christ into the hands of haters of the rightoeus.
> 
> Jesus Christ persevered in the face of people hating him without right reason and as a reult conquered the wickedness and the sins of the world for those who put their faith through him in the Most High God.
> 
> ...


 
********************************​Consistently, you have to understand that certain types of marijuana have various affects on your mind as an inhibtor which could be adding to a emotional and or identity crisis in your life such as a depression or oppression and the likes; so you need to research how various foods and or drugs prescriptions included is effecting your mind.​


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 26, 2008)

_*Oh, here we go.You're not satisfied with preaching in your own thread, now you have to branch out.*_


Prophecy said:


> This is the only thing the Christian Bible reveals on it that I know. Jesus Christ was sold by Judas Iscariot; Judas Iscariot committed suicide because of the overwhelming guilt in his conscience for selling out Jesus Christ into the hands of haters of the rightoeus.
> 
> Jesus Christ persevered in the face of people hating him without right reason and as a reult conquered the wickedness and the sins of the world for those who put their faith through him in the Most High God.
> 
> ...





Prophecy said:


> ********************************​Consistently, you have to understand that certain types of marijuana have various affects on your mind as an inhibtor which could be adding to a emotional and or identity crisis in your life such as a depression or oppression and the likes; so you need to research how various foods and or drugs prescriptions included is effecting your mind.​


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## SMOKENBUDDHA (Jul 26, 2008)

personally i could never commit suicide, and i used to believe suicide was lame and an easy way out, until i had to deal with 2 suicides, people like me don't understand these people's mind states. people can commit suicide for a slue of reasons, mostly depression, but most of all: it's just at the moment they commit suicide they are at the worst possible mind state and feel they can no longer continue, suicide can be prevented, sometimes it helps to intervene even if you have to try to understand where they are coming from ,many times people who are in this mindstate don't want to talk about it. then when they do commit suicide its almost as if you wish you could have done something to help them, if you could of just called them 5 minutes before they pulled the trigger. but its too late. as for the question: there is no answer, there is too many beliefs in this world for one man to digest. i'm confused everyday yet i excel instead of letting all these negative thoughts and confusing times get to me. nobody knows what life has in store for them, or what death has in store for them, so ill play my cards and continue to see what life has to offer, and when death naturally comes ill finally know what the hell we've all been waiting for, reluctantly, for some. i do not want to die, because i do not know if there will be life after death.


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## sarah22 (Jul 26, 2008)

tampicos said:


> but thoughts are instants and they change in heartbeats. emotions come and go. if anything we should cherish the randomness and learn that pain is an emotion that allows you to appreciate pleasure. if lost wasn't a state of mind, there never would be a found.
> i don't think anyone who can comprehend this should let go since reality allows you all the cards you'd ever need.


it is very different when you are severely mentally ill. my thoughts and emotions change all the time...the go from bad...to worse...to bad...to suicide...to worse...to bad...to crazy...to empty...to bad...theres not a whole lot of good in there is there? its very very hard to live with that day in and day out. 

ps...prophecy...get the hell outta this thread. perhaps you would be better suited to an online community for believers of god. go there.


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## smithy (Jul 27, 2008)

suicide is the easy way out its much harder to live the every day struggle.


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## whulkamania (Jul 27, 2008)

I think Suicide is just the easy way out. I does not solve you're problem I mean it is so easy to kill you're self.

Hmm this is to hard *Shoots self*.


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## Dfunk (Jul 27, 2008)

What makes you think it's the easy way out?


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## sarah22 (Jul 27, 2008)

suicide is not the easy way out...clearly the people who think that have not had to live with a severe mental illness. they are just ignorant. live a day in my head...it would probably be the darkest day you have ever experienced. then tell me its the easy way out.


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## smithy (Jul 27, 2008)

it take a stronger person to live with and press on.


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 27, 2008)

Tell yourself that all you want.Sometimes I get tired of being"strong".Get in my head.It's a fucking party.


smithy said:


> it take a stronger person to live with and press on.


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## NewGrowth (Jul 27, 2008)

makaveli87 said:


> Hey, i'm just wondering what peoples views and philosophies are with regards to suicide and the afterlife. What i mean to say is, what is your spiritual or religious beliefs views on if someone commits suicide? would they encounter a different path once they die? If so what happens to them?
> 
> So if you're religious, what is your religions take on the subject?
> If you're not, what is your personal perspective or belief?
> ...


We are all bound by karma (the law of cause and effect) so suicide could be an act of compassion or a selfish act of murder. I think it depends greatly on the circumstances but I believe in most cases suicide is a negative act. I really don't believe in judgement however I think that is a human thing and has nothing to do with universal law.


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## smithy (Jul 27, 2008)

Stoney McFried said:


> Tell yourself that all you want.Sometimes I get tired of being"strong".Get in my head.It's a fucking party.


 na iam fine thanks


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## trippymonkey (Jul 27, 2008)

It's a person's right to die. And the easy way out? Yeah right. It takes a lot of courage to put a gun to your head and pull the trigger. And it also takes a lot of pain to come to that decision. So don't judge until you've been there.


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## smithy (Jul 27, 2008)

i can judge all i want i've been in this type of situation before, but i built my bridge and got over it. ya i no it takes guts. that all ive got say anyway


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## sarah22 (Jul 27, 2008)

some people go thru a bad time in their life and contemplate suicide...and then they come out of their bad time. my WHOLE life is a bad time. theres no coming out of it. i cant build a bridge to get over it cuz i have no building materials...so to speak. if you were able to "get over it" then you were not dealing with a severe mental illness. no one with a severe illness just "gets over it". so no my friend...you cannot judge.


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## sarah22 (Jul 27, 2008)

Stoney McFried said:


> Tell yourself that all you want.Sometimes I get tired of being"strong".Get in my head.It's a fucking party.


yea a blast of a party...schizos and sociopaths dont have to pay a cover charge...lol. i know exactly what ya mean...my heads a party too...


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## raeman1990 (Jul 27, 2008)

well if some one doesn't want to live, for what ever reason, i belive that does not make them stupid, but i do believe their friends and family HAVE and obligation to try to help stop that person, their not being "bad" friends

Some one in my town just killed himself because he got into a fight with his parents and ran away from home ( he was 14 ish) so yes that person probably could have been talked out of it if some one was there, and he could have lived another 70+ years of a happy life, but ill never know if it would have been worth it for him to live


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## tampicos (Jul 27, 2008)

sarah22 said:


> yea a blast of a party...schizos and sociopaths dont have to pay a cover charge...lol. i know exactly what ya mean...my heads a party too...


i would say your eyes are closed but it'd be rude. i can't see what you see either but life is beyond sight. we have emotions to live by and cherish and if i make you puke i'm sorry, but lady i know at least your fingers work, and your mind as well. ingenuity disproves Darwinism?


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## sarah22 (Jul 27, 2008)

im a borderline psychotic. we cycle in a similar way as bipolars, but more often. sometimes its good...sometimes its bad...but there is waaay more bad than good. i like to use humour to deal with my issues, i know its an immature way...but it works for me. i have my own negative thoughts undermining myself all the time. i cant turn it off. the things that go on in my head have shocked several shrinks. to the point where i try to not talk about some of the things that go on in my head because it makes people uncomfortable. i try very very hard to "survive", even though i know it makes everyone else's lives more difficult for me to be here. sometimes i feel like im punishing them by being here...so yea...i love my family and friends and hate the thought that i make their lives more difficult...so i often want to die...im really sorry to say...but try walking a mile in my shoes and see how many steps you can take before you want to die.


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## tampicos (Jul 27, 2008)

you are as hard on yourself as i am about girls and me, ease up a lil, gravity is already pushin on you hard enough. and the key is will. dont worry about letting go, the world is invisible to you. feeling good deserves no shame and i mean by chilling. smoke a blunt with homeys and make a cookie or two.


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## eazygeezy (Jul 28, 2008)

I'm a person that likes to put myself in all positions of an argument and really never make a true decision. I've contemplated suicide and have been very close to fulfilling my thoughts. The only way I get through it is to think that the next day will be better than this moment. I'm a very shy person and somewhat beat myself up for this; its not a good mindset to have. Lately, i've been trying to break through this and havent had much success, so I accept that. I'm me and there is nothing that I can do about it. 

But what really sucks about all of this, is that i've somewhat come to the conclusion that we are here for no reason. My theory is that we're just more evolved apes and are cursed with a conscience and guilt. Sometimes im enjoying my day and these thoughts pop in my head and I feel like im about faint. They completely ruin my joyous mood. When I don't have weed, I feel lost. Weed for me masks these thoughts. It brings me away from the bad things and closer to my friends. 

My ideas on life change a lot. I grew up going to catholic school for my whole life. I'm not bashing it, they are just (i don't want to call it brainwashing) forced to think these ideas because they know nothing else. They grow up around it and I somewhat pity my friends. I must say that its a great community and the only bad part is being forced to go to mass. I accomodate for their beliefs but they see everything else as evil. I told my religion class that I didn't believe in anything and that was a fun day. Lots of angry questions and pity thrown my way. I've wondered what it would be like if god was somehow revealed as nothing. I bet the suicide rate would go up astronomically. Like that one dude said above me, he would have commited suicide if his teacher didn't say anything. Life as we know it would just be the game it is. Everyone loses in the end, its just a matter of when and how. But i'm not agreeing with athiests at all. Their somewhat forming their own religion themselves and are just as extreme as catholics in their faith. I could see, in the long run, a war between the two. What are people like me that don't care supposed to do?

Yea lots of different thoughts in there and a lot off topic but meh, I don't have anything else do to right now. Toke on.


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## NewGrowth (Jul 28, 2008)

sarah22 said:


> im a borderline psychotic. we cycle in a similar way as bipolars, but more often. sometimes its good...sometimes its bad...but there is waaay more bad than good. i like to use humour to deal with my issues, i know its an immature way...but it works for me. i have my own negative thoughts undermining myself all the time. i cant turn it off. the things that go on in my head have shocked several shrinks. to the point where i try to not talk about some of the things that go on in my head because it makes people uncomfortable. i try very very hard to "survive", even though i know it makes everyone else's lives more difficult for me to be here. sometimes i feel like im punishing them by being here...so yea...i love my family and friends and hate the thought that i make their lives more difficult...so i often want to die...im really sorry to say...but try walking a mile in my shoes and see how many steps you can take before you want to die.


Hey sara have you tried meditation? There are hundreds of techniques and I'm sure you could find one that works for you. I was amazed at what it did for me.


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 28, 2008)

_*I feel you.I don't trust shrinks, I won't tell them what's in my head because I don't want to be committed.*_


sarah22 said:


> im a borderline psychotic. we cycle in a similar way as bipolars, but more often. sometimes its good...sometimes its bad...but there is waaay more bad than good. i like to use humour to deal with my issues, i know its an immature way...but it works for me. i have my own negative thoughts undermining myself all the time. i cant turn it off. the things that go on in my head have shocked several shrinks. to the point where i try to not talk about some of the things that go on in my head because it makes people uncomfortable. i try very very hard to "survive", even though i know it makes everyone else's lives more difficult for me to be here. sometimes i feel like im punishing them by being here...so yea...i love my family and friends and hate the thought that i make their lives more difficult...so i often want to die...im really sorry to say...but try walking a mile in my shoes and see how many steps you can take before you want to die.


_*I bet she's tried medication to meditation...I have.I take a lot of pride in how strong my mind is and how well I control it.But sometimes, it gets REAL bad.*_


NewGrowth said:


> Hey sara have you tried meditation? There are hundreds of techniques and I'm sure you could find one that works for you. I was amazed at what it did for me.


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## sarah22 (Jul 28, 2008)

oh yea...i have tried it all. lol. chi meditation is actually pretty good...the only problem with meditating...is the whole part where i have to clear my mind and focus. i dont have very much control over my mind...it gets so very hard. but yea...i definitely meditate when im stoned. weed helps the raging thoughts cool down for a while. and at first glance i thought that you had asked if i had tried and mediCation lol i was gonna be like "dont even get me started on my damn pills" hahaha


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## sarah22 (Jul 28, 2008)

haha my mom threatens to have me hospitalized all the time. i just tell her thats a bad idea...cuz i wouldnt hesitate to kill people to get the fuck outta there. i HATE hospitals.lol


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## Prophecy (Jul 29, 2008)

Prophecy said:


> ********************************​
> 
> 
> Consistently, you have to understand that certain types of marijuana have various affects on your mind as an inhibtor which could be adding to a emotional and or identity crisis in your life such as a depression or oppression and the likes; so you need to research how various foods and or drugs prescriptions included is effecting your mind.​


*********************************************************

*Learning to Solve Depression, Suicide, and Other Identity and Emotional Traumas *​​​May I ask you your age? Is it possible that I can see a fuller image of you; as in a picture that includes ore than what the one you currently display? You are the person who said they were chronically depressed?

Truth = Light = True or Original Reality = Salvation = Redemption = Security = Virtue; can you see where I am going with this.

Healthy/nutritious eating reasonable exercise and reasonable goal setting is a good way to reprogram your mind, your attitude. If you are a chronic depressor, you need to be faithful to the Truth, the Light i order to find the depressor (source of stress) that is the reason that you are depressed.

Mothers have a way of getting into their children minds and manipulating their moods and even their thoughts. This is why God is so important because (s)He provides a higher Reality alternative that can lead to a psycho-spiritual breakthrough. The saying is mother and/or father knows best; but, the saying should be that *God* (within the mother or/and father) *knows best*

With this in mind, a persons pattern of conduct is important to realize and/or understand. Conduct consist of a person's attitude and behavior; my point is to examine what patterns you have been repeated over the time of your issues/challenges and do a honest measure of the positive and negative effect it is known to have over you and make the necessary adjustments; this include relationships with some people.

Lastly, words and images matter; that is to say it matters how these things are influencing your mind; whatever is influencing your mind is ultimately influencing your attitude / cognition / conscientiousness and these things lead to how you act / live. 

*Knowledge is power and the Truth shall set you free*​​I have found that most psychological problems stem from either emotional trauma and/or self identity issues. The absolute first thing you need to do is understand the problem and seek the solution; most people dwell too much on the problem without putting the emphasis or priority on seeking a (super)natural solution. Many psychiatrist and doctors are materially or carnally motivated; this is why its you to be wise to get a second and third and forth opinion. 

With this in mind, God is greater than all of these things and if you learn to understand the problem and look at it as a challenge then you can began to learn the solution for yourself, between the internet and the public libraries you can research your own way out. *I am an advocate of balancing your p-H Balance (as in alkaline/positive elements, acidic/negative elements and toxins/false elements) of your mind, your soul, and your body through the (Super) natural things, as in primary things of Gods creation.*

Ultimately, you have to understand that consistently with life, things of the mind is at typical *a process* (faith is a process) and ultimately, you get out of it what you put into it. So to whatever measure or capacity you concentrate and/or focused your time on it is how soon it will come to pass. Trust God, remember, He knows whats best for us; patience and diligence are Virtues.


*Love God; 
Homage your love ones to God; 
Worship God thru your loved ones,
Mark Daniels 
http://virtuousintelligence.spaces.live.com 
Detroit,Mi*


​


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## sarah22 (Jul 29, 2008)

Prophecy said:


> *********************************************************
> 
> *Learning to Solve Depression, Suicide, and Other Identity and Emotional Traumas *​May I ask you your age? Is it possible that I can see a fuller image of you; as in a picture that includes ore than what the one you currently display? You are the person who said they were chronically depressed?
> 
> ...


if i could smack you in the head right now i would.  depression for most people is a chemical imbalance in the brain. faith and god cant fix that. medication is required. im not sure if the top of your post was directed at me or not...but im 22. and theres a full pic of my face somewhere in the "fat chicks wtf" thead. people who think that overcoming mental illness is a "mind over matter" thing need to stay out of it. unless you have personally experienced a severe mental illness, you have no place to talk. i have faith in myself and i have my own "religion" or whatever that i follow as a traditional witch. i dont need faith in any god because i grew out of having imaginary friends over a decade ago. while i do appreciate you taking the time to provide your form of advice, i feel that you dont really have a proper grasp on the severity of mental illness. not enough of a grasp to provide any really helpful advice.


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 29, 2008)

I do pretty well controlling it with my mind...but I slip up, too...Prophecy is just using any forum he posts in to advance his religious agenda.


sarah22 said:


> if i could smack you in the head right now i would.  depression for most people is a chemical imbalance in the brain. faith and god cant fix that. medication is required. im not sure if the top of your post was directed at me or not...but im 22. and theres a full pic of my face somewhere in the "fat chicks wtf" thead. people who think that overcoming mental illness is a "mind over matter" thing need to stay out of it. unless you have personally experienced a severe mental illness, you have no place to talk. i have faith in myself and i have my own "religion" or whatever that i follow as a traditional witch. i dont need faith in any god because i grew out of having imaginary friends over a decade ago. while i do appreciate you taking the time to provide your form of advice, i feel that you dont really have a proper grasp on the severity of mental illness. not enough of a grasp to provide any really helpful advice.


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## sarah22 (Jul 29, 2008)

Stoney McFried said:


> I do pretty well controlling it with my mind...but I slip up, too...Prophecy is just using any forum he posts in to advance his religious agenda.


yea...i know...but i thought that maybe i could smack some sense into him . its worked for almost everyone else i've ever smacked.........lol


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 29, 2008)

No, he's been GOdsmacked.


sarah22 said:


> yea...i know...but i thought that maybe i could smack some sense into him . its worked for almost everyone else i've ever smacked.........lol


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## sarah22 (Jul 29, 2008)

yea...its hard to fix that one...lol


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## NewGrowth (Jul 29, 2008)

sarah22 said:


> oh yea...i have tried it all. lol. chi meditation is actually pretty good...the only problem with meditating...is the whole part where i have to clear my mind and focus. i dont have very much control over my mind...it gets so very hard. but yea...i definitely meditate when im stoned. weed helps the raging thoughts cool down for a while. and at first glance i thought that you had asked if i had tried and mediCation lol i was gonna be like "dont even get me started on my damn pills" hahaha


I think you are learning meditation from the wrong people if you are trying to clear your mind, that is near impossible for most people even without a mental illness. Very few people in this world have control over their minds  You really should look into different meditation techniques if you are interested I would be happy to point you in a better direction. It took me a while to find the right meditation technique for myself. It's not a cure all but it did save my life thats for sure


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## sarah22 (Jul 29, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> I think you are learning meditation from the wrong people if you are trying to clear your mind, that is near impossible for most people even without a mental illness. Very few people in this world have control over their minds  You really should look into different meditation techniques if you are interested I would be happy to point you in a better direction. It took me a while to find the right meditation technique for myself. It's not a cure all but it did save my life thats for sure


sure! im always open to suggestion. what did you have in mind?


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## NewGrowth (Jul 29, 2008)

sarah22 said:


> sure! im always open to suggestion. what did you have in mind?


There are lots of active meditations like walking meditation among many many others. I can recommend a book to you if you would like, its really a really short easy read just PM me if you want the name of it. I also do a form of tantric meditation (no nothing to do with sex). "Tantra" is the secret path and may interest you if you are more agnostic.


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## 40acres (Jul 29, 2008)

suicide tip 1
slice up your wrist along the vein and you will bleed out quicker. 

Tip 2
Buck up and buy a ham. No one likes a whiner.


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## sarah22 (Jul 29, 2008)

40acres said:


> suicide tip 1
> slice up your wrist along the vein and you will bleed out quicker.
> 
> Tip 2
> Buck up and buy a ham. No one likes a whiner.


what is the point of your post? im aware that cutting along the vein causes you to bleed out quicker. if you want to be an ass...do it somewhere else.


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## 40acres (Jul 29, 2008)

the problem is people like you feeding into things like suicide. People who talk about suicide are attention whores with no spine. Hows that for a point?
Either piss or get off the pot.


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## Prophecy (Jul 30, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> There are lots of active meditations like walking meditation among many many others. I can recommend a book to you if you would like, its really a really short easy read just PM me if you want the name of it. I also do a form of tantric meditation (no nothing to do with sex). "Tantra" is the secret path and may interest you if you are more agnostic.


*********************************************************

Meditation can be great; personally, I find it constructive to be around water when I can to chill; sometimes within this setting and when not; going to the library helped to study; thus reading self help books and writing relative things; getting organized and staying organized despite what my desk and current living quarters may look like, I am organized as far as scheduling and bills and the likes go. I have even written three books designed to help the psycho-spiritual challenges of the times. 

1. So keeping a journal
2. keeping a to do list
3. reading books that interest me (psychology, theology, philosophy, astrology, education)
4. helping others
smoking marijuana (the thing about this is that smoking it which believe it or not I can't remember the last time I did and it wasn't a dream probably over 8 months is cool, but doing it just to forget about your issues, problems, and/or challenges is not going to resolve the problem once and for all. 

I found that knowledge and understanding of my core issues is more fundamental then anything "thus Knowledge is Power" and the Truth shall set you free" and "Life is 10% what happens to you ad 90% how you respond" I respond by seeking the truth and doing good and being just and obedient to the Virtue of God.)

I have this psychology book I kept from my social psychology class entitled Unraveling the Mystery the title to this book speaks volumes to me; because it really is about unraveling the mystery, knowledge and/or understanding is the only true and fundamental way to bring breakthrough and/or deliverance to your problem. 

The more Truth you acquire the more immediate your revelation (knowledge) will be given; at least from my personal relationship with God that is the case. This is likely what Jesus means when he says the Truth shall set you free.


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## Prophecy (Jul 30, 2008)

sarah22 said:


> if i could smack you in the head right now i would.  depression for most people is a chemical imbalance in the brain. faith and god cant fix that. medication is required. im not sure if the top of your post was directed at me or not...but im 22. and theres a full pic of my face somewhere in the "fat chicks wtf" thead. people who think that overcoming mental illness is a "mind over matter" thing need to stay out of it. unless you have personally experienced a severe mental illness, you have no place to talk. i have faith in myself and i have my own "religion" or whatever that i follow as a traditional witch. i dont need faith in any god because i grew out of having imaginary friends over a decade ago. while i do appreciate you taking the time to provide your form of advice, i feel that you dont really have a proper grasp on the severity of mental illness. not enough of a grasp to provide any really helpful advice.


 
*********************************************************

"Nature / Nurture" and "classic conditioning" are two psychological terms that I would recommend you look up. I pose the question were you born blind or did you become blind by some natural and/or freak accident. The chemical and/or biological and/or physiological can tricky when it comes to the mind. The mind, as in our attitudes and behaviors can trigger various types of chemical reaction in our bodies and to that natural notion various nutrients that we get from the foods we eat and other foods in general possess nutritional/chemical elements that can more naturally supplement those psychiatric drugs that so many have become dependant on from their psychiatrist and even from the street pharmacist.

Thus, I am not sold on that fact that we need psychiatric drugs to deal with certain mental issues; I think that thats the doctors who prescribe it in many cases the easy way out or a way to kept the money coming into their pockets. I would rather find some ancient African or Chinese natural nutritional remedy coupled with diligent research and knowledge and principle Truth seeking.


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## NewGrowth (Jul 30, 2008)

Prophecy said:


> *********************************************************
> 
> "Nature / Nurture" and "classic conditioning" are two psychological terms that I would recommend you look up. I pose the question were you born blind or did you become blind by some natural and/or freak accident. The chemical and/or biological and/or physiological can tricky when it comes to the mind. The mind, as in our attitudes and behaviors can trigger various types of chemical reaction in our bodies and to that natural notion various nutrients that we get from the foods we eat and other foods in general possess nutritional/chemical elements that can more naturally supplement those psychiatric drugs that so many have become dependant on from their psychiatrist and even from the street pharmacist.
> 
> Thus, I am not sold on that fact that we need psychiatric drugs to deal with certain mental issues; I think that thats the doctors who prescribe it in many cases the easy way out or a way to kept the money coming into their pockets. I would rather find some ancient African or Chinese natural nutritional remedy coupled with diligent research and knowledge and principle Truth seeking.


 I believe for the most part these drugs serve a compassionate purpose and I think it is ridiculous for anyone who has not suffered metal illness to say they are not needed. All drugs will be mis-used but to say they are not needed for someone who is suffering is an arrogant statement. I do agree that there are other forms of treatment for mental illness that should be used more but saying people don't need them is like telling a diabetic they don't need insulin. It is very possible that they can be fine by controlling their diet alone but we are talking about quality of life here. Many people are simply incapable or unwilling to try other ways to deal with their mental illness but that does not mean they should suffer needlessly.


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## sarah22 (Jul 30, 2008)

40acres said:


> the problem is people like you feeding into things like suicide. People who talk about suicide are attention whores with no spine. Hows that for a point?
> Either piss or get off the pot.


how about this? your head clearly comes to a point u tool. i am NOT an attention whore. i hate attention. attention means hospitalization and i HATE hospitals. here i can talk freely about my thoughts and feelings without worrying that im going to be committed. heres a point for your stupid ass...people talk about these things on online communities for the anonymity of it. they can ask the questions they need and seek help from other people who experience the same things they're going thru. "piss or get off the pot"?! are you fucking kidding me. have some compassion you cold hearted bastard. how about you try helping people with positive re-enforcement instead of encouraging them to go thru with suicide. if you're going to be a jerk you can do it somewhere else. no one here is interested in the words of a moron whos brain is the size of a lego.


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## sarah22 (Jul 30, 2008)

Prophecy said:


> *********************************************************
> 
> "Nature / Nurture" and "classic conditioning" are two psychological terms that I would recommend you look up. I pose the question were you born blind or did you become blind by some natural and/or freak accident. The chemical and/or biological and/or physiological can tricky when it comes to the mind. The mind, as in our attitudes and behaviors can trigger various types of chemical reaction in our bodies and to that natural notion various nutrients that we get from the foods we eat and other foods in general possess nutritional/chemical elements that can more naturally supplement those psychiatric drugs that so many have become dependant on from their psychiatrist and even from the street pharmacist.
> 
> Thus, I am not sold on that fact that we need psychiatric drugs to deal with certain mental issues; I think that thats the doctors who prescribe it in many cases the easy way out or a way to kept the money coming into their pockets. I would rather find some ancient African or Chinese natural nutritional remedy coupled with diligent research and knowledge and principle Truth seeking.


yea im very familiar with the whole nature vs nurture thing, and conditioning. i actually find psychology to be incredibly fascinating as well. im pretty knowledgeable too, i tend to intimidate my therapists i think, cuz i only see the head psychiatrist now, lol. i have a feeling i scared the other ones cuz im smart like they are...lol. i also totally agree with you in your other post about chilling out by water. i dont have anywhere at home to do that...but at my grandparents i like to sit by the beach and listen to the waves. i like to sketch sometimes to...and yea i totally keep a journal. i think tho that with treatment of mental issues, it requires a combination of medication and psychotherapy, and of course other things on the side that help, such as meditating and keeping a journal. although i do agree that doctors do push pharmaceutical meds too much, and natural medicine is something that i have been trying to look into a bit as well. i know that my one med does wonders for my anxiety problems, but other meds i've taken have been problematic. its trial and error. it takes time and patience...but some meds can help. im still looking for the right combo...but do you know of anything with natural medicine that i could try?


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## Code420 (Jul 30, 2008)

I tried to kill my self a year or so ago. I was just depressed and lonely. I swallowed a bunch of pills and was throwing up for a couple days. My parents still think I was just sick. Im more the type that doesn't tell anyone about my sadness or depression, I don't tell anyone of my plans for suicide. My friends and family would think I was fine and until I turned up dead. Since then i decided it was a very selfish way to run out on my problems, my family and friends would have been crushed for almost no good reason. If they didn't care, if they weren't there, or if it wouldn't make them sad I probably would have killed my self by now. I feel that if there is judgment after death by some God be it mine or someone else's, it would take everything into account. Your sadness, your pain, your happiness, what you have done to help people in your life, what you have done to hurt people. Sometimes the pain is just too great, sometimes the sadness is too great, sometimes it isn't really the persons fault, sometimes you just want to die.


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## 40acres (Jul 30, 2008)

sarah22 said:


> how about this? your head clearly comes to a point u tool. i am NOT an attention whore. i hate attention. attention means hospitalization and i HATE hospitals. here i can talk freely about my thoughts and feelings without worrying that im going to be committed. heres a point for your stupid ass...people talk about these things on online communities for the anonymity of it. they can ask the questions they need and seek help from other people who experience the same things they're going thru. "piss or get off the pot"?! are you fucking kidding me. have some compassion you cold hearted bastard. how about you try helping people with *positive re-enforcement* instead of encouraging them to go thru with suicide. if you're going to be a jerk you can do it somewhere else. no one here is interested in the words of a moron whos brain is the size of a lego.


 Does sarah wara need a hug? Are her little sensitivities being hurt? 


"*The strong* do what *they* can and the *weak suffer what they must"*
* -*Thucydides


*positive re-enforcement* --what the fuck am I, the dog whisperer? If the world dropped off all the whiners, the rest of us would flourish. 


Now that you have called me names, I will respond.

I think the world has no place for those such as yourself. Stay at home with your people and do not tread where those that can stand on their own two feet go. Its little cry baby ass girls such as yourself that have made america weak and the rest of the world a cesspool. The shit smell from you and your kind will contaminate every area in which you visit. 

If i told you to kill yourself, would you take it personally?


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 30, 2008)

Sarah wasn't whining...just trying to inject a point of view from the side of one whose been there, 40.I myself have been there. I don't tell anyone, but I have talked a little more openly on here about it, simply because none of you will ever meet me.While its true there are a lot of folks who use it to get attention, there are some who are genuinely afraid of what they're going to do.Did I tell anyone when I tried? No.But everyone is different.


40acres said:


> Does sarah wara need a hug? Are her little sensitivities being hurt?
> 
> 
> "*The strong* do what *they* can and the *weak suffer what they must"*
> ...


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## 40acres (Jul 30, 2008)

Stoney McFried said:


> Sarah wasn't whining...just trying to inject a point of view from the side of one whose been there, 40.I myself have been there. I don't tell anyone, but I have talked a little more openly on here about it, simply because none of you will ever meet me.While its true there are a lot of folks who use it to get attention, there are some who are genuinely afraid of what they're going to do.Did I tell anyone when I tried? No.But everyone is different.


 I have done it and succeeded, and they brought me back. I was a whiner that needed discipline and strength. maybe it is time to stop coddling, and to show tough love.


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 30, 2008)

Wow.Had no Idea.What method did you try, or is it too personal?


40acres said:


> I have done it and succeeded, and they brought me back. I was a whiner that needed discipline and strength. maybe it is time to stop coddling, and to show tough love.


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## sarah22 (Jul 30, 2008)

40acres said:


> Does sarah wara need a hug? Are her little sensitivities being hurt?
> 
> 
> "*The strong* do what *they* can and the *weak suffer what they must"*
> ...


if i told you to go fuck yourself would you take that personally? 
go away. nobody gives a shit about what you think. 1) im canadian dipshit. 2) im not weak. the very fact that i am still alive proves how strong i am. you try living as a borderline psychotic with severe depression issues. you wouldnt last 5 minutes in my head. 3) im not being a cry baby. im openly talking about my issues to educate ignorant people like you who clearly have no idea what its like to be severely ill. im talking openly about this topic in the hopes of helping other people. i want other people to know that they arent alone, and give them the opportunity to talk to someone they can relate to. i think suicide is a tragedy. i struggle because im ill. other struggle because they're ill. not because they are cry babies. i think you're a jerk for making people feel worse about this. keep in mind...not all us crazies are always suicidal. sometimes i wanna kill other people. keep that in mind the next time you wanna call someone a cry baby. you might just end up as tomorrows headline.


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## sarah22 (Jul 30, 2008)

if all you needed was "discipline and strength" you were not dealing with a severe illness. what i have is not something that you can just "get over". but good for you if you were able to rise above your troubles. just keep in mind that everyone is different and that some people are in much deeper water than you were. and its not a good thing to chastise someone for not being able to "buck up and get over it" the way you did.


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## Prophecy (Jul 31, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> I believe for the most part these drugs serve a compassionate purpose and I think it is ridiculous for anyone who has not suffered metal illness to say they are not needed. All drugs will be mis-used but to say they are not needed for someone who is suffering is an arrogant statement. I do agree that there are other forms of treatment for mental illness that should be used more but saying people don't need them is like telling a diabetic they don't need insulin. It is very possible that they can be fine by controlling their diet alone but we are talking about quality of life here. Many people are simply incapable or unwilling to try other ways to deal with their mental illness but that does not mean they should suffer needlessly.


********************************************************


I have compassion and empathy for all kinds of the least among us; I have first hand experience with people with psychological issues and as I said most if not all stem from emotional traumas and/or identity issues. 

With this being said, it is likely safe to say probably for two years I was challenged by moderate depression, which then turn into mild delusion and possibly some schizophrenia without the hallucinations. However instead of turning to a psychiatric doctor I turn to God through Jesus Christ and ever since them my faith in seeking Him has delivered me one day at a time. 

I never knowingly, took any drug except marijuana and some alcohol, particularly red wine and cognac (which is a form of wine). Instead of going to see a psychologist, because I had an honest desire to be psychologically advance I took college courses and keep my text to this day.

So as far as pharmaceutical drugs go, I stand on my previous position. I am sure that their is a nutritional supplement alternative that can easily replace such drugs if the Federal government would put more money into the research of the benefits of foods moreso then the research of chemical drugs. 

Now, obviously, because of this pharmaceutical priority among most hospitals and doctors, if I were to ever get sick or injured anytime soon (particularly to the point that I couldnt make my own decision) my option would be immediately limiting into natural alternatives and more rarely then I use marijuana these days do I use an Advil or aspirin when I get an occasional migraine, I am researching alternatives to that for the day when I can afford what I want. 

Some I will continue to progress to that day when natural interventions will be all I need, God willing.

*Ultimately, to each their own*​


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## 40acres (Jul 31, 2008)

Stoney McFried said:


> Wow.Had no Idea.What method did you try, or is it too personal?


 I took a massive amount of anti-psychotics and what i am pretty sure were tranqs.I cant remember their name. Respiradal(?) is the name of the anti-psychotic. 
THere is no borderline for a personality disorder. Either you are or you are not.

Saying "i'm kinda crazy cant be true" Thats like i am kinda pregnant. Its only when i found it was allright to revel in my differences did I become okay.

Hey sarah, if i ended up as tomorrows headline, You'll still be a fruitcake.


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## Code420 (Jul 31, 2008)

40acres said:


> I took a massive amount of anti-psychotics and what i am pretty sure were tranqs.I cant remember their name. Respiradal(?) is the name of the anti-psychotic.
> THere is no borderline for a personality disorder. Either you are or you are not.
> 
> Saying "i'm kinda crazy cant be true" Thats like i am kinda pregnant. Its only when i found it was allright to revel in my differences did I become okay.
> ...


Not a very good comparison, once your pregnant your pregnant thats a fact. If your crazy you can have varying levels of mental disorders. You can have mild schizophrenia where you can still function in every day society, or you can have severe schizophrenia where you are at a complete loss of reality. so yes you can be "kinda crazy". Do you think people just snap and the mental disorders hits them full force and its always the same for everyone? I think your knowledge on abnormal psychology is limited at best. Most people are unstable when they are thinking of suicide, tuff love isnt the best approach. You can easily push them over the edge and then theres no coming back.


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## trippymonkey (Jul 31, 2008)

40acres said:


> I took a massive amount of anti-psychotics and what i am pretty sure were tranqs.I cant remember their name. Respiradal(?) is the name of the anti-psychotic.
> THere is no borderline for a personality disorder. Either you are or you are not.
> 
> Saying "i'm kinda crazy cant be true" Thats like i am kinda pregnant. Its only when i found it was allright to revel in my differences did I become okay.
> ...


I'm not sure what you're referring to, but there IS a borderline personality disorder. It's marked by impulsivity, anger problems, self destructive behavior, and identity problems. The book and movie Girl, Interrupted is about Susanna Kaysen's stay in a psychiatric hospital when she was diagnosed with it. Also you can be "kind of crazy". Mental illness is like a wide spectrum. The people who suffer from these illnesses aren't all the same, and thus, don't necessarily suffer at the same degree. It's not a clear cut thing. For instance, you can have mild, moderate, severe depression, it all just depends on the severity of the illness itself. Stop targetting people for things they can't help. Try and have some empathy, man. 
Hitting people when they're already down, in my opinion, is one of the lowest, most pathetic things you could do as a human being.


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## trippymonkey (Jul 31, 2008)

Code420 said:


> Not a very good comparison, once your pregnant your pregnant thats a fact. If your crazy you can have varying levels of mental disorders. You can have mild schizophrenia where you can still function in every day society, or you can have severe schizophrenia where you are at a complete loss of reality. so yes you can be "kinda crazy". Do you think people just snap and the mental disorders hits them full force and its always the same for everyone? I think your knowledge on abnormal psychology is limited at best. Most people are unstable when they are thinking of suicide, tuff love isnt the best approach. You can easily push them over the edge and then theres no coming back.


 
Haha, you're awesome, Code.  You just said exactly what I was trying to say, but it is articulated much better.


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## Stoney McFried (Jul 31, 2008)

I ate Lithium.And FUCKING HORKED AND SHIT,all at the same time.


40acres said:


> I took a massive amount of anti-psychotics and what i am pretty sure were tranqs.I cant remember their name. Respiradal(?) is the name of the anti-psychotic.
> THere is no borderline for a personality disorder. Either you are or you are not.
> 
> Saying "i'm kinda crazy cant be true" Thats like i am kinda pregnant. Its only when i found it was allright to revel in my differences did I become okay.
> ...


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## sarah22 (Jul 31, 2008)

40acres said:


> I took a massive amount of anti-psychotics and what i am pretty sure were tranqs.I cant remember their name. Respiradal(?) is the name of the anti-psychotic.
> THere is no borderline for a personality disorder. Either you are or you are not.
> 
> Saying "i'm kinda crazy cant be true" Thats like i am kinda pregnant. Its only when i found it was allright to revel in my differences did I become okay.
> ...


i have borderline personality disorder...basically that means im not a full blown psychotic, but i am "on the borderline". and like the other post said...impulsive, self destructive, anger issues...if you had chosen to educate yourself prior to posting you would have known that. u need to grow up lots of people like fruitcake. but i dont know anyone who likes turd sandwiches.


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## Code420 (Jul 31, 2008)

trippymonkey said:


> Haha, you're awesome, Code.  You just said exactly what I was trying to say, but it is articulated much better.


 thanks, I just know sometimes you get into a bad place. You cant think clearly or rationally, you might do things completely out of character. A lot of the time it has nothing to do with whether or not you mind is weak, some things you just cant stop. Yours was good too, you hit on a few things I missed


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## 40acres (Jul 31, 2008)

I may have been being a dick in this thread. I apoligize.


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## sarah22 (Jul 31, 2008)

40acres said:


> I may have been being a dick in this thread. I apoligize.


thanks  i am sorry for being a bitch too. ur not really a turn sandwich hehe hmmm i think i would like a bowl now...


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## trippymonkey (Aug 1, 2008)

Code420 said:


> thanks, I just know sometimes you get into a bad place. You cant think clearly or rationally, you might do things completely out of character. A lot of the time it has nothing to do with whether or not you mind is weak, some things you just cant stop. Yours was good too, you hit on a few things I missed


Haha thanks and so true, it really is the mindstate at the time.


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## Prophecy (Aug 1, 2008)

sarah22 said:


> i have borderline personality disorder...basically that means im not a full blown psychotic, but i am "on the borderline". and like the other post said...impulsive, self destructive, anger issues...if you had chosen to educate yourself prior to posting you would have known that. u need to grow up lots of people like fruitcake. but i dont know anyone who likes turd sandwiches.


**********************************************************

I would say that if you are aware when the various personalities arise and/or you are in control of them; I would say that a potentially great idea would be to do a thing like commit to the Truth more concentrated in which you are forming a common denominator/principle; something that all of the various personalities have in common and can relate to in a central capacity. God / Truth can serve as your common denominator. 

A the same time their are likely chemical responses or arousals, in which case depending on the medicine ,ay either need to have a ingredient that can appeal to the various possibly extreme ranging moods of the different personalities or a different medicine for the different personalities. Obviously, when I say medicine, I am talking about whatever you have concluded is the most effective and least toxic.

Non-the-less, the chemical disposition of personality disorder seems to stem from a nutritional deficiency; and of mind from an emotional trauma and an identity crisis that has grown unresolved. I think you can read and eat your way out of it, if you do it with constructive reason. If you are on any medications I recommend that you talk to your doctor about a transitioning off of them over time as the reading and eating elements take there fundamental course. 

Possibly methodologically balancing your blood p-H and eating brain foods like more omega 3 and the likes and maybe some B-12 could lead you in the right direction. So you should bridge a relationship between your doctor and a Nutritionist or two or three in which you can learn to formulate your mental escape from this slave master of your mind.


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## meathook666 (Aug 2, 2008)

_*i thought it was a suicide thread?? apparently everybody interested is already gone...*_


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## trippymonkey (Aug 3, 2008)

I'm still interested. Shoot.


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## havocdb (Aug 3, 2008)

in my short 27 years, i've lost a few to that one. all i can say is that if they miraculously resurrected in front of me, i'd beat each and every one of them senseless for putting me through that- not to mention every one else that had to deal with it too.

selfish. plain and simple.


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## shimmer (Aug 23, 2008)

If anybody's still interested in this thread, please post. I just spent 2 hours writing, deleted the lot. I'm sure some use could come of it, but have been pretty pissed off by a lot of it. My wee brother killed himself, so i'm up for talking. And folks, advice can be the most dangerous mistake you ever will make. Please, let's tread carefully.s


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## jamiemichelle (Aug 23, 2008)

Suicide is one of the leading causes of death in america and I believe its the 3rd leading causes of death for children ages 5-12... It may be the 5th but either way its something that needs to be given more attention through out america. Most people who commit suicide just need to be on an antidepressant combined with counseling but are too afraid to ask. 
Ive lost about 7 people in my life due to suicide... the most important person was my Dad. He did it when I was 20 and he would have been 48 this year . 
Anyway, I always wonder what made him do it and not think about how it would affect my sisters and I. I think its pretty selfish but who am I to judge. Even though its been several years it still hurts, but it has made me more attentive to people and their feelings.


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## JOEGALLO (Aug 23, 2008)

I havent read through the thread but im sure there are alot of the same opinions on this subject. It can be very touchy for some people.

I would NEVER kill myself. No matter how hard you think your life is, you gotta keep going. It may get better or it may not. So everything might be better for you if you off yourself but what do you think happens to your family and friends? They wonder what went wrong, they wish they could have helped you, they often blame themselves thinking that they could have done something different to help you. 

You effect your friends and family GREATLY by commiting suicide... and no a suicide letter doesnt help ease anything. You saying, "I couldnt take my life anymore but I love all of you and bla bla bla" ... how is that going to ease anything?


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## sarah22 (Aug 23, 2008)

it is a very touchy subject. but unfortunately taking meds and going to therapy doesnt really do much...it all sucks. smoking mary is the only thing that really helps. its hard...and no offense to anyone...but it really bugs me when people say its selfish to committ suicide. i think its selfish to make someone stay alive when they're suffering, just to make everyone elses lives easier. theres a lot of pain to deal with...a lot of pain.


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## JOEGALLO (Aug 23, 2008)

well the meaning of selfish would be thinking of ones self and not others ... i think. or atleast thats what i think the meaning of it is so if it is, that would make suicide selfish but then again thats only my opinion. 

I have had very hard times in the past but stuck with life and everything is pretty decent right now. Things might not always be good, great or fair but how do you know they arent getting better right around the corner? just have to stick with life and enjoy it any way you can.


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## jamiemichelle (Aug 23, 2008)

sarah22 said:


> it is a very touchy subject. but unfortunately taking meds and going to therapy doesnt really do much...it all sucks. smoking mary is the only thing that really helps. its hard...and no offense to anyone...but it really bugs me when people say its selfish to committ suicide. i think its selfish to make someone stay alive when they're suffering, just to make everyone elses lives easier. theres a lot of pain to deal with...a lot of pain.


I guess you've never lost an immediate family member to suicide. Unless your sick and dying of a disease you are not suffering. There are ways to be proactive and make yourself better. A lot of your emotions have to do with ur neurotransmitters being effected by the way you eat, your physical activity and sleep patterns. You'd be amazed at how much better you'd feel if you perfected those. I also believe it has a lot to do with your social environment.
You CAN make yourself feel better despite what you think. 
Everyone has to deal with pain.... why would you want other people to suffer cuz you couldnt take it? I mean instead of just one person being hurting, tons will hurt*even if you think nobody cares*. Everyone goes through a lot of pain in lifem some worse than others... you just have to find ways to cope, be strong and make yourself better.


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## Sunnysideup (Aug 23, 2008)

I don't look at suicide as selfish, I look at it as stupid. Anyone who is thinking of taking their own life should really go to their nearest hospital and spend a day in the oncology ward. They should go and see what it is like to be in a true fight for your life, then maybe they will have more regard for human life.


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## JOEGALLO (Aug 23, 2008)

and you think your life sucks now... wait till you try to kill yourself and mess up and have to live the rest of your life REALLY f*cked up.


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## fdd2blk (Aug 23, 2008)

YouTube - Suicidal Tendencies - You Can't Bring Me Down


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## Dfunk (Aug 23, 2008)

Nice video FDD...uhh what did that guy say?lol


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## Zekedogg (Aug 23, 2008)

Im not even going to read the thread but the only thing I have to say is suicide is for pussies who cannot face reality. Its a ignorant, arrogant fuckin cop out.


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## NewGrowth (Aug 23, 2008)

Anybody ever heard of zen therapy? Its pretty cool and it works really well. Some pretty crazy people have come out of it completely in like two weeks from this therapy.


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## sarah22 (Aug 23, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> Anybody ever heard of zen therapy? Its pretty cool and it works really well. Some pretty crazy people have come out of it completely in like two weeks from this therapy.


im waiting to get into a therapy program, DBT (dialectical behaviour therapy). its supposed to have a lot of zen ideas in it...and it promotes the idea of oneness. its specifically designed for people that have my disorder. whats zen therapy like? do u have a link to some info?


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

suicide is the cowards way out
that has always been my philosophy on suicide


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## Bomb Tree (Aug 24, 2008)

Heh, if you smoke pot I doubt you would want to commit suicide. So like, to people who want to kill them selves should just be smoking herb.

Like, I'm so faded right now, its just like, a perpetual 2 world living status. No need to kill myself, fer shure? Yea, fo sho.


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## sarah22 (Aug 24, 2008)

chuckbane said:


> suicide is the cowards way out
> that has always been my philosophy on suicide


then clearly you have never been seriously ill. walk a mile in a mental ill persons shoes and then tell me what you think...


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## sarah22 (Aug 24, 2008)

Bomb Tree said:


> Heh, if you smoke pot I doubt you would want to commit suicide. So like, to people who want to kill them selves should just be smoking herb.
> 
> Like, I'm so faded right now, its just like, a perpetual 2 world living status. No need to kill myself, fer shure? Yea, fo sho.


pot has saved my life. it cuts down on my thoughts and urges big time...


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

sarah22 said:


> then clearly you have never been seriously ill. walk a mile in a mental ill persons shoes and then tell me what you think...


oh ive been ill, n' im not talking physically... and i dont need to walk a mile in anyones shoes i got my own to walk in thank you


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## shimmer (Aug 24, 2008)

Zekedogg said:


> Im not even going to read the thread but the only thing I have to say is suicide is for pussies who cannot face reality. Its a ignorant, arrogant fuckin cop out.


 

permalink
"suicide is the cowards way out
that has always been my philosophy on suicide"

Those are some pretty hefty and unexamined conclusions to draw guys. Have you considered that by stigmatizing suicide in this way could make someone who is considering killing themselves feel even worse. By giving negative forms to already horrific feelings, the suicidal person may feel that by considering suicide he is a coward, a word with very powerful negative, and zero positive connotations to it. I could imagine this word being in the top 5 words a suicide is saying to themselves when they go down. Even insurance companies(where i'm from) will pay out on suicide, because even they understand the validity of depression sometimes being terminal.
I understand firsthand the utter horror of having someone you love kill themself, i would not wish that on anyone, and i thank God (Everywhere.She Be ) that my Mum didn't follow suit. If i had given birth to someone who killed themself, i don't think i could stand the resultant internal beating. My Mum has balls of steel, but she also had the benifit of knowing the devestation in it's most profound form that accompanies suicide. That knowledge empowers you not to take your own life in many cases because you have something that is more vital and alive than your own suffering, and that is the suffering of your loved ones. For a suicidal person to be unequipped with this experience, then the focus can remain on ending their own suffering, and their life.


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## Sunnysideup (Aug 24, 2008)

> depression sometimes being terminal.


Wow, I never thought of depression like this....You gave me something to think about.


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## shimmer (Aug 24, 2008)

NewGrowth said:


> Anybody ever heard of zen therapy? Its pretty cool and it works really well. Some pretty crazy people have come out of it completely in like two weeks from this therapy.


There was a really cool show on bbc2 i think, called extreme pilgrim. An English vicar goes on a spiritual journey to various parts of the world in search of a more holistic approach to being than he was getting doing his day job. He was at Zen/Chan monastery way up in the mountains. He clearly got a great result from his experience there. With regard to Zen therapy, one of the monks told him he wasn't well judging by his skin, he got stuck straight into him, made him hurt a bit, and made him all better. You could tell he was a deeper, happier guy for having spent time there.
Props to you in general NewGrowth.


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

shimmer said:


> permalink
> &quot;suicide is the cowards way out
> that has always been my philosophy on suicide&quot;
> 
> ...


i may have come across as rude but i was just being blunt about it. life sucks, and it's hard but that doesnt mean you get to quit. Ive got no problem with euthanasia, but ending your life when you are not terminal is just pure cowardess to me. 

there is nothing in your mind that you cannot conquer with strength.


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

I usually believe this too...but it's your life to take,not anyone elses.It takes guts to try and end your very existence.No cowardice involved.


chuckbane said:


> there is nothing in your mind that you cannot conquer with strength.


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

cowardice,, thats the word i was looking for,, just like the other day when i used applicators instead of applicants,, someone probably though i was talking about tampons, lol
i still believe it is a cowardly move... i have had my fair share of ups and downs and any time i have personally contemplated it it has been because it would have been the easy way out... and the easy way out is for the weak coward.. just my opinion... you stay strong, you grit your teeth, you stiffen up that lip and you continue on. and doing that makes you a stronger and better person


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

EArlier in this thread I quoted a movie called white light black rain.A woman spoke of how, after being horribly burned in Hiroshima or Nagasaki,and losing their parents, her sister stepped in fromt of a train.A short time later, she tried to do the same.She couldn't.She said."It was then I realized, there were two kinds of courage.My sister had the courage to die.I had the courage to live."








chuckbane said:


> cowardice,, thats the word i was looking for,, just like the other day when i used applicators instead of applicants,, someone probably though i was talking about tampons, lol
> i still believe it is a cowardly move... i have had my fair share of ups and downs and any time i have personally contemplated it it has been because it would have been the easy way out... and the easy way out is for the weak coward.. just my opinion... you stay strong, you grit your teeth, you stiffen up that lip and you continue on. and doing that makes you a stronger and better person


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## Sunnysideup (Aug 24, 2008)

shimmer said:


> permalink
> "suicide is the cowards way out
> that has always been my philosophy on suicide"
> 
> ...


I read this earlier, and replied to it.....The part that got me was 'depression sometimes being terminal'
I thought about this, hard...I come from a couple different sides of this fence. I had a sister n law that committed suicide at the age of 24. I also had a sister that died from cancer at the age of 26...This phrase made me think that maybe BOTH of them were terminal....but, they are not the same. My sis n law DID have a choice, she had a choice to live or die, so I don't think she was terminal. My sister DIDN'T have a choice, she was going to die no matter what she did. 
So I am putting that phrase into my debunk list....It isn't terminal, it is a choice...a stupid choice at that.


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

Stoney McFried said:


> EArlier in this thread I quoted a movie called white light black rain.A woman spoke of how, after being horribly burned in Hiroshima or Nagasaki,and losing their parents, her sister stepped in fromt of a train.A short time later, she tried to do the same.She couldn't.She said.&quot;It was then I realized, there were two kinds of courage.My sister had the courage to die.I had the courage to live.&quot;


 courage is the ability to confront fear, pain, uncertainty, risk, danger, or intimidation.

i dont see how you can have to courage to die,, thats an oxymoron


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## Johnnyorganic (Aug 24, 2008)

chuckbane said:


> courage is the ability to confront fear, pain, uncertainty, risk, danger, or intimidation.
> 
> i dont see how you can have to courage to die,, thats an oxymoron


Death is the ultimate unknown. Choosing death is not cowardice. If anything, the suicidal person disregards fear of the unknown in an attempt to end the unbearable pain they experience, yet cannot express without being called a whiner.

Your comments only serve to further stigmatize the mentally ill. Someone who has a diseased mind may look perfectly fine outwardly. They are not disabled by any logical measure. Everything is in place: two arms, two legs, eyesight, hearing, etc. It's all there, except for a healthy mind.

However, mental illness strikes with little warning and it is insidious. It is made worse by the fact that most mentally ill persons impose self-isolation on themselves, preventing friends and family from witnessing their steady decline. Rejecting help, it is usually a steady and disintegrating pattern as the circles get smaller and smaller.

The mentally ill are discriminated against all the time, especially when it comes to employment. No one is willing to hire a 'psycho.'

Telling a mentally ill person to 'buck up' or 'suck it up' is incredibly cruel. Telling them 'everybody hurts' just serves to remind them that they cannot deal with the everyday obstacles in life most people overcome.


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

No,an oxymoron is a phrase or saying combining two terms that contradict each other.Coward and suicide, don't fit the bill.Sometimes, we are meant to die.There are all ways we can die.Sometimes by our own hands.The whole cowardly thing is just a load from western society and certain religions.Many other societies attach no stigma to suicide at all.Sometimes, they think of it as honorable.It doesn't make you a bad person.It's not wrong.It is YOUR life.If you choose to end it, fine.I don't know if you've ever attempted suicide, but it's very hard to fight down your natural survival response and do it.If you are in that much pain, and you want to end it, that's your choice.Here's an interesting article.Suicide (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)


chuckbane said:


> courage is the ability to confront fear, pain, uncertainty, risk, danger, or intimidation.
> 
> i dont see how you can have to courage to die,, thats an oxymoron


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

now this is just coming down to a matter of difference in opinion... i just believe it to be a selfish cowardly act and i will tell you why 
selfish - when you end your life you are making it easy for yourself never having to deal with anything again, but you are making everyone who knew and loved you sad and you make their life more difficult having to deal with your choice of death. that is selfish no matter which way you spin it. 

coward - we were all put on this earth for a reason, and that was to live. by "giving up" when things become too difficult you become a coward, again no matter which way you spin it,, you have also "cheated" in the "game of life" by skipping right to the end. it would be nice if we could all just give up and die when we wanted,, but it doesnt work that way. we do have a purpose even though we may not know what it is


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## Dfunk (Aug 24, 2008)

I agree with Johnny & Stoney...it takes some serious courage to actually do it. I've tried in the past & it didn't work, wasn't easy, & I showed fear. Think about it - I think it's alot more difficult to blow your brains out, hang yourself, cut your wrists or anything else compared to getting up each day.


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## Dfunk (Aug 24, 2008)

How can you be sure you never have to deal with anything again? Did you visit death & come back ? What do you think your purpose is?


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

You're right, big difference of opinion.Most of what you are saying is based on the whole christian philosophy that we are here for a higher purpose, and one must suffer to attain heaven.I don't believe that way, but I guess we'll just agree to disagree.


chuckbane said:


> now this is just coming down to a matter of difference in opinion... i just believe it to be a selfish cowardly act and i will tell you why
> selfish - when you end your life you are making it easy for yourself never having to deal with anything again, but you are making everyone who knew and loved you sad and you make their life more difficult having to deal with your choice of death. that is selfish no matter which way you spin it.
> 
> coward - we were all put on this earth for a reason, and that was to live. by "giving up" when things become too difficult you become a coward, again no matter which way you spin it,, you have also "cheated" in the "game of life" by skipping right to the end. it would be nice if we could all just give up and die when we wanted,, but it doesnt work that way. we do have a purpose even though we may not know what it is


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

im not trying to sound harsh as i think people are taking it.. i am actually being very optimisic.... we have the power to change anything in our lives,, and if something makes you not want to live anymore then you need to do something pro-active about it

im trying to get the point across that we do have a choice on how our lives go, and we can make change... it just takes a little strength... its like the Darwinism of your mind i guess... survival of the fittest


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

Yes, but your way works for you, not necessarily everyone.Try being proactive with crushing clinical depression or schizophrenia...believe me, the drugs they put you on don't make for a life.And, not all people believe in having their heads picked by a shrink.There are different types of strength is what I'm saying, and there's no shame in wanting a rest.Noone knows what happens after death for sure.


chuckbane said:


> im not trying to sound harsh as i think people are taking it.. i am actually being very optimisic.... we have the power to change anything in our lives,, and if something makes you not want to live anymore then you need to do something pro-active about it
> 
> im trying to get the point across that we do have a choice on how our lives go, and we can make change... it just takes a little strength... its like the Darwinism of your mind i guess... survival of the fittest


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## shimmer (Aug 24, 2008)

Johnnyorganic said:


> Death is the ultimate unknown. Choosing death is not cowardice. If anything, the suicidal person disregards fear of the unknown in an attempt to end the unbearable pain they experience, yet cannot express without being called a whiner.
> 
> Your comments only serve to further stigmatize the mentally ill. Someone who has a diseased mind may look perfectly fine outwardly. They are not disabled by any logical measure. Everything is in place: two arms, two legs, eyesight, hearing, etc. It's all there, except for a healthy mind.
> 
> ...


Very well put indeed


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

Stoney McFried said:


> You're right, big difference of opinion.Most of what you are saying is based on the whole christian philosophy that we are here for a higher purpose, and one must suffer to attain heaven.I don't believe that way, but I guess we'll just agree to disagree.


whoa back up here,,, im not pushing religion, not even close,,
first off what have i said other than i dont believe people should kill themselves that is "based on the whole christian philosophy"? i think you are starting to shoot your mouth off with the religion shit,, you could have left that out... and like i said, i believe in euthanasia, and i also believe that our minds can conquer anything

and i am not saying that we have to suffer, i am saying to people need to get better, and you dont do that by killing yourself you do that with personal strength. and not once did i mention anything about a higher purpose,, just said we are here for a reason, and that reason is whatever you may wish it to be


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

Stoney McFried said:


> Noone knows what happens after death for sure.


right there is a prime example of our difference in opinion,, i am almost sure i know what is after death and that is nothing... to me we are a species that got too complex for our own good, and nothing more... we started asking dumb questions that never could be answered like "why are we here" and "who put us here" and these are the questions that are driving us to insanity


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

Don't start getting snappy.I haven't.I didn't say you were pushing christianity, i said that's a remnant of what we in the western world have been taught, which is largely due to the fact that our ancestors were puritans and believed suicide was a mortal sin.Here for a reason, in my opinion, is the same as saying here for a purpose,and that sounds a lot like dogma.


chuckbane said:


> whoa back up here,,, im not pushing religion, not even close,,
> first off what have i said other than i dont believe people should kill themselves that is "based on the whole christian philosophy"? i think you are starting to shoot your mouth off with the religion shit,, you could have left that out... and like i said, i believe in euthanasia, and i also believe that our minds can conquer anything
> 
> and i am not saying that we have to suffer, i am saying to people need to get better, and you dont do that by killing yourself you do that with personal strength. and not once did i mention anything about a higher purpose,, just said we are here for a reason, and that reason is whatever you may wish it to be


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

And my point is, knowing that you may face extinction and complete and utter nothingness, and choosing THAT over life,the evil you do know,is not cowardice.


chuckbane said:


> right there is a prime example of our difference in opinion,, i am almost sure i know what is after death and that is nothing... to me we are a species that got too complex for our own good, and nothing more... we started asking dumb questions that never could be answered like "why are we here" and "who put us here" and these are the questions that are driving us to insanity


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

im not getting snappy you just dont listen,, im not saying its a sin at all im saying its cowardly and selfish

explain to me why someone with a stable brain would choose to die.


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## Dfunk (Aug 24, 2008)

That's pretty neat that you know what's coming after death. Someone with a stable brain could CHOSE to die because they WANT to. Haven't you ever seen The Matrix? It's all about choice. I think life is just an experience & death is an asencion to another form of non physical energy. Anyway maybe some people get tired of it. Everyone's experience is different.


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

ive been down in a deep motherfucking hole and i pulled myself out,, because there is always a brighter day waiting.... i know what its like to have absolutley nothing, no home, no real friends, no family... but you have to be strong and make it to tomorrow, because THAT is courage,,, you have no fucking clue what courage is and thats for damn sure


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

Now, you're attacking.Do you know my life, dude?Do you know what I've been through, or what I go through everyday?I'm not the one getting angry.You are.I'm merely disagreeing.Show some of that strength and have some control over your emotions.


chuckbane said:


> ive been down in a deep motherfucking hole and i pulled myself out,, because there is always a brighter day waiting.... i know what its like to have absolutley nothing, no home, no real friends, no family... but you have to be strong and make it to tomorrow, because THAT is courage,,, you have no fucking clue what courage is and thats for damn sure


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

how is that attacking? because i say you dont know what courage is? no, thats not attacking thatsm just observing the truth. i never said you havent struggled we all have,, but if your idea of courage is killing yourself then you have no idea what that word means


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

But you have no reason to explain this belief, therefore, dogma.Who defines stable?What is normal?I listen.I read everything you said.I was trying to get you to think where you got those ideas from, and examine.A discussion, not a fight.I disagree with you.You disagree with me.Now, you're getting angry.Chill, man.


chuckbane said:


> im not getting snappy you just dont listen,, im not saying its a sin at all im saying its cowardly and selfish
> 
> explain to me why someone with a stable brain would choose to die.


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## Johnnyorganic (Aug 24, 2008)

chuckbane said:


> im not getting snappy you just dont listen,, im not saying its a sin at all im saying its cowardly and selfish
> 
> explain to me why someone with a stable brain would choose to die.


Someone with a stable brain who chooses to kill themselves is escaping punishment in most cases. See Hermann Goering, Adolph Hitler, Jim Jones, the Columbine punks & Judas Iscariot.

I believe the person we are addressing in this thread is the one with the *unstable* brain: the mentally ill. You seem to be applying standards of the mentally healthy to the mentally infirm. It is unfair and only serves to further the prejudice the mentally ill face every day.


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

courage is having the strength to push through the bad times.. and if not for yourseklf then for the ones who hold you dear.... and im still waiting to hear why a stable person would think they have to kill themself


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

Definitions of *courage* on the Web:
[SIZE=-1]a quality of spirit that enables you to face danger or pain without showing fear 
[/SIZE]



No mention of committing suicide being the exception to this.


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## Johnnyorganic (Aug 24, 2008)

chuckbane said:


> courage is having the strength to push through the bad times.. and if not for yourseklf then for the ones who hold you dear.... and im still waiting to hear why a stable person would think they have to kill themself


Once again, you are confusing mental health with mental illness.


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

I answered.Who decides what stable is?What makes life so damn precious?


chuckbane said:


> courage is having the strength to push through the bad times.. and if not for yourseklf then for the ones who hold you dear.... and im still waiting to hear why a stable person would think they have to kill themself


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

the only reason i have argued this this far is because someone said it is courageous to kill yourself when in fact it is the opposite.... its wayy to easy to swallow a bottle of pills and die, but it takes courage to pull through, because there is always a brighter day waiting for you,,, you just have to have the COURAGE to find it and get to it


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## shimmer (Aug 24, 2008)

There are very few people who are entirely complete and have knowledge of the fact. We're all complete, all perfect, to think otherwise is to challenge the universe itself, but that's how we as a species roll. I have many many personal prejudices. I see many monsters, and they're not all outside of me either. I think some folks are just a little out of their depth here, i can't imagine anyone not taking the option to die by their own hand if they were forced to endure incredible physical torture, thereby suggesting they are unfamiliar with its psychological/emotional equivalent. We need also to address the fact that we do not come into this world, we come out of it, this is one of the fundamental mistakes we make , and it is in my opinion a precursor to the kind of thinking that would drive a person to commit suicide.


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

It does take courage to put the knife to your wrist and saw away, or the gun in your mouth, or to swallow those pills and wait to die while all the time being uncertain of what awaits you if anything.


chuckbane said:


> the only reason i have argued this this far is because someone said it is courageous to kill yourself when in fact it is the opposite.... its wayy to easy to swallow a bottle of pills and die, but it takes courage to pull through, because there is always a brighter day waiting for you,,, you just have to have the COURAGE to find it and get to it


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## Dfunk (Aug 24, 2008)

LOOK at my last post for the answer to your stable brain question. A stable mind can make choices with no problems so if someone wants to off themselves than all they have to do is make the choice & die.


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

sure,, ill agree it takes courage to kill yourself,, but it takes more courage to not kill yourself when you have to courage to do it... think of that... you can always justify life with the optimisic thought thatn things will get better


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

But they don't always get better.I'm not an optimist, I'm a realist.Many suicides are, I think.


chuckbane said:


> sure,, ill agree it takes courage to kill yourself,, but it takes more courage to not kill yourself when you have to courage to do it... think of that... you can always justify life with the optimisic thought thatn things will get better


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## Dfunk (Aug 24, 2008)

^What you say here is very true if you like life. What if you like death? Is something wrong with that?


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

the only reason why things couldnt be better is because the person chooses not to get better,, we have plently of programs to help people in these kinds of situations but many choose not to use these services properly.

the only people that have the right to die are the poeple that know that things will never get better only worse,, and these are terminal people in pain. when my mind was less developed and i was depressed i often fealt like things would never get better.. but i waited years and now they have. i look back on my days of contemplation and i couldnt image if i had done it. i lived a very lonely and depressing life for quite a few years, but i was courageous and held on and i am here now with the love of my life feeling happier than i ever have in my life.. why? because i was strong and courageous and i made it.


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## waterwitch (Aug 24, 2008)

deep shit man!


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## Johnnyorganic (Aug 24, 2008)

chuckbane said:


> the only reason why things couldnt be better is because the person chooses not to get better,, we have plently of programs to help people in these kinds of situations but many choose not to use these services properly.
> 
> the only people that have the right to die are the poeple that know that things will never get better only worse,, and these are terminal people in pain. when my mind was less developed and i was depressed i often fealt like things would never get better.. but i waited years and now they have. i look back on my days of contemplation and i couldnt image if i had done it. i lived a very lonely and depressing life for quite a few years, but i was courageous and held on and i am here now with the love of my life feeling happier than i ever have in my life.. why? because i was strong and courageous and i made it.


You represent the prejudice and stigma facing the mentally ill every day.

It seems you are implying the mentally ill choose to be ill.

That is a callous and unsympathetic attitude.


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## shimmer (Aug 24, 2008)

chuckbane said:


> the only reason why things couldnt be better is because the person chooses not to get better,, we have plently of programs to help people in these kinds of situations but many choose not to use these services properly.
> 
> the only people that have the right to die are the poeple that know that things will never get better only worse,, and these are terminal people in pain. when my mind was less developed and i was depressed i often fealt like things would never get better.. but i waited years and now they have. i look back on my days of contemplation and i couldnt image if i had done it. i lived a very lonely and depressing life for quite a few years, but i was courageous and held on and i am here now with the love of my life feeling happier than i ever have in my life.. why? because i was strong and courageous and i made it.


Imagine that with a jacob's ladder as a chaser.


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

Programs don't work for everyone.Programs are there to "reprogram" you.And you can't say who has what right...it's their life to do with as they please.The less developed mind comment seems to be a thinly veiled insult.Geniuses have committed suicide.Artists.Poets.Philosophers.If anyone could enjoy the distinction of having a "developed"mind, it would be they.And, no offense, but that last line smacks of arrogance.Many people try to feel better than others in some small way.It's the "well at least I didn't do this"syndrome.So is being "strong and courageous" your way to say, "My way is the right way?"


chuckbane said:


> the only reason why things couldnt be better is because the person chooses not to get better,, we have plently of programs to help people in these kinds of situations but many choose not to use these services properly.
> 
> the only people that have the right to die are the poeple that know that things will never get better only worse,, and these are terminal people in pain. when my mind was less developed and i was depressed i often fealt like things would never get better.. but i waited years and now they have. i look back on my days of contemplation and i couldnt image if i had done it. i lived a very lonely and depressing life for quite a few years, but i was courageous and held on and i am here now with the love of my life feeling happier than i ever have in my life.. why? because i was strong and courageous and i made it.


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## Dfunk (Aug 24, 2008)

We are pleased to hear that. It's just a choice in my opinion. It's not good or bad,right or wrong, it just is.


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

Stoney McFried said:


> But they don't always get better.I'm not an optimist, I'm a realist.Many suicides are, I think.


you can be an optimist and a realist at the same time you know. i am. i look at the reality of life but i up-play the good things because you can go your whole life dwelling on all the negative aspects but its just going to make life shitty. i choose to make my life good in anyway i can


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

Good...and you can run your life any way you see fit.Pessimists are negative.Realists are neither.


chuckbane said:


> you can be an optimist and a realist at the same time you know. i am. i look at the reality of life but i up-play the good things because you can go your whole life dwelling on all the negative aspects but its just going to make life shitty. i choose to make my life good in anyway i can


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## chuckbane (Aug 24, 2008)

wow stoney, you are great at turning around other peoples words... you dont get it though.. the only point i have been trying to prove is that it is cowardly and selfish to kill yourself and courageous to make it through and i already made that point. arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall,, no matter what you say to it it just always replies "BRICK"... good for you,, maybe one day you will grow up and figure shit out,,, untill then..


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## Johnnyorganic (Aug 24, 2008)

My friend was always seen as eccentric when he was successful. But a personal tragedy pushed him over the edge and completely overwhelmed him. I understand now that he was dealing with his mental illness as best he could when times were good. When his life was turned upside down, he lost everything, including his precious grasp on sanity.

That was in 2001. He has never recovered. He lost a prestigious position shortly thereafter and bounces from job to job, assuming he can get one now. He has basically given up and is waiting to die. He does not wish to die, but sees no other alternative.

He tried to kill himself in 2001. Not too long ago, we were talking and he said to me, "John, I'm already dead. My body just hasn't figured it out.'

Do you really expect me to respond with, 'Have courage!", or '"Everybody gets the blues. Shake it off!"?


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

WOW!I think you just described yourself to a tee, chuck.Read what you wrote.Now read between the lines.MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY comes through loud and clear.I don't need to grow up.I have my own opinions.You have yours.Just because I don't agree, doesn't make me less than you as a person.Doesn't mean I am lacking in intelligence or maturity.The insults are really not necessary.I think, I've showed restraint.You haven't.


chuckbane said:


> wow stoney, you are great at turning around other peoples words... you dont get it though.. the only point i have been trying to prove is that it is cowardly and selfish to kill yourself and courageous to make it through and i already made that point. arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall,, no matter what you say to it it just always replies "BRICK"... good for you,, maybe one day you will grow up and figure shit out,,, untill then..


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear about your friend Johnny.I've been where he is emotionally.And I still have no advice for him because each person handles things differently.


Johnnyorganic said:


> My friend was always seen as eccentric when he was successful. But a personal tragedy pushed him over the edge and completely overwhelmed him. I understand now that he was dealing with his mental illness as best he could when times were good. When his life was turned upside down, he lost everything, including his precious grasp on sanity.
> 
> That was in 2001. He has never recovered. He lost a prestigious position shortly thereafter and bounces from job to job, assuming he can get one now. He has basically given up and is waiting to die. He does not wish to die, but sees no other alternative.
> 
> ...


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## Zekedogg (Aug 24, 2008)

You people are nuts..........suicide is for the weak..........to even consider it is for the weak.........It not only affects you but think of the people around you........It's ignorant and selfish


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 24, 2008)

Oh...nevermind!


Zekedogg said:


> You people are nuts..........suicide is for the weak..........to even consider it is for the weak.........It not only affects you but think of the people around you........It's ignorant and selfish


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## shimmer (Aug 24, 2008)

Zekedogg said:


> You people are nuts..........suicide is for the weak..........to even consider it is for the weak.........It not only affects you but think of the people around you........It's ignorant and selfish


zeekeyzekeyzekeyzekeydiggetydidiggetttydawgdog. Thought you said you weren't comin' back? Y'know everybody's here ta like y'know chill on the suicide thread wow y'know. Either augment your point or fuck off.


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## tampicos (Aug 24, 2008)

Johnnyorganic said:


> My friend was always seen as eccentric when he was successful. But a personal tragedy pushed him over the edge and completely overwhelmed him. I understand now that he was dealing with his mental illness as best he could when times were good. When his life was turned upside down, he lost everything, including his precious grasp on sanity.
> 
> That was in 2001. He has never recovered. He lost a prestigious position shortly thereafter and bounces from job to job, assuming he can get one now. He has basically given up and is waiting to die. He does not wish to die, but sees no other alternative.
> 
> ...



this guy you couldn't help like that. at this point i'm suprised since he knows he's dead inside... doesn't his greatest weakness then become his greatest strength? at this point he can admit hes dead, he doesn't have to follow through with it though. be reborn...


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## Johnnyorganic (Aug 24, 2008)

tampicos said:


> this guy you couldn't help like that. at this point i'm suprised since he knows he's dead inside... doesn't his greatest weakness then become his greatest strength? at this point he can admit hes dead, he doesn't have to follow through with it though. be reborn...


Good suggestion, thanks.

All I did was nod my head with a grim look on my face. I had nothing to say in response.

It is such a sad situation. To see an old, good friend deteriorate before my eyes until he became the wreck who spoke those words to me. It's heartbreaking.


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## sarah22 (Aug 24, 2008)

i know how it feels to be dead mentally but alive physically. i live like that every minute of everyday. it sucks. and chuck...its not cowardly or selfish to choose to die. i think its selfish of the "happy people" to say that we will be hurting all these people if we do it...its selfish to keep someone alive when they just want to die. and you're right...no mentally stable person should kill themselves. people who are severely mentally ill are so far from stable. if you went thru a rough time and you were able to pull thru...then good for you...its great that u were able to do so. but if you were able to "see a brighter day" and get better...then you were not suffering from severe mental illness. i will never be "all better". i take meds and i go to therapy to learn to cope with my disorder and emotions and all that...but i will always be mentally ill. there is no cure...there is no full recovery. and knowing that is even more depressing. for people who have not personally experienced a *severe *mental illness...they have no idea what its like, and no place to make judgements. not only that...but all my suicide attempts happen during a psychotic episode...in which case im not thinking at all...just reacting. im not making any choices...im just freaking right out...and i often dont remember the majority of the episode. so no chuck...im not selfish for wanting to die...other people are selfish for wanting me to stay alive even tho they know how much im hurting and how dark my mental state is.


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## Zekedogg (Aug 25, 2008)

sarah22 said:


> i know how it feels to be dead mentally but alive physically. i live like that every minute of everyday. it sucks. and chuck...its not cowardly or selfish to choose to die. i think its selfish of the "happy people" to say that we will be hurting all these people if we do it...its selfish to keep someone alive when they just want to die. and you're right...no mentally stable person should kill themselves. people who are severely mentally ill are so far from stable. if you went thru a rough time and you were able to pull thru...then good for you...its great that u were able to do so. but if you were able to "see a brighter day" and get better...then you were not suffering from severe mental illness. i will never be "all better". i take meds and i go to therapy to learn to cope with my disorder and emotions and all that...but i will always be mentally ill. there is no cure...there is no full recovery. and knowing that is even more depressing. for people who have not personally experienced a *severe *mental illness...they have no idea what its like, and no place to make judgements. not only that...but all my suicide attempts happen during a psychotic episode...in which case im not thinking at all...just reacting. im not making any choices...im just freaking right out...and i often dont remember the majority of the episode. so no chuck...im not selfish for wanting to die...other people are selfish for wanting me to stay alive even tho they know how much im hurting and how dark my mental state is.


There is a cure........his name is JESUS


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## shimmer (Aug 25, 2008)

Jesus


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 25, 2008)

I thought you were smarter than that, Zeke.


Zekedogg said:


> There is a cure........his name is JESUS


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## sarah22 (Aug 25, 2008)

Zekedogg said:


> There is a cure........his name is JESUS


im pagan, i dont believe in jesus. or any god actually...i worship the planet...so i guess mother earth is who i worship...


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## Zekedogg (Aug 25, 2008)

bwagahahahaahahahahahaaa


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 25, 2008)

Do you need a lozenge?


Zekedogg said:


> bwagahahahaahahahahahaaa


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## Zekedogg (Aug 25, 2008)

really bad


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 25, 2008)

Open up and say ahhhhhhhhh.


Zekedogg said:


> really bad


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## Zekedogg (Aug 25, 2008)

like Poison


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## sarah22 (Aug 25, 2008)

Zekedogg said:


> bwagahahahaahahahahahaaa


excuse you? are you laughing because of the spiritual beliefs i have? thats not cool dude...not cool at all.


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## Zekedogg (Aug 25, 2008)

sarah22 said:


> excuse you? are you laughing because of the spiritual beliefs i have? thats not cool dude...not cool at all.



hardly not


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## Zekedogg (Aug 25, 2008)

I would never look down on someone for what they believe in.........let alone laugh at you


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## Zekedogg (Aug 25, 2008)

shimmer said:


> Jesus



This person has a hard on 4 me What was your old user name and who you hiding from?


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## Zekedogg (Aug 25, 2008)

Ok back on the thread 




SUICIDE


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## tsdriles06 (Aug 25, 2008)

sence im Christian for me its like this. Only God can give life and only God can take life away. So if you commit suicide you go against God. If you commit suicide you go to Hell. Thats what i think


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## NewGrowth (Aug 25, 2008)

sarah22 said:


> im waiting to get into a therapy program, DBT (dialectical behaviour therapy). its supposed to have a lot of zen ideas in it...and it promotes the idea of oneness. its specifically designed for people that have my disorder. whats zen therapy like? do u have a link to some info?


No, In true Zen therapy they take you off all your meds and they just let you be crazy as hell. They make sure that you are fed and all your basic needs are taken care of. They don't talk to you other than whats needed. They say that nothing in this life is permanent and you just have to let it run its course. Its amazing these people come in a complete psychosis and come out talking about how crazy they were acting. Then they help with meditation techniques ect.


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## Stoney McFried (Aug 25, 2008)

Thanks, but no thanks.My doc gives me some fun drugs.


NewGrowth said:


> No, In true Zen therapy they take you off all your meds and they just let you be crazy as hell. They make sure that you are fed and all your basic needs are taken care of. They don't talk to you other than whats needed. They say that nothing in this life is permanent and you just have to let it run its course. Its amazing these people come in a complete psychosis and come out talking about how crazy they were acting. Then they help with meditation techniques ect.


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## shimmer (Aug 25, 2008)

tsdriles06 said:


> sence im Christian for me its like this. Only God can give life and only God can take life away. So if you commit suicide you go against God. If you commit suicide you go to Hell. Thats what i think


YouTube - George Carlin - Religion is bullshit.


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## shimmer (Aug 26, 2008)

Zekedogg said:


> This person has a hard on 4 me What was your old user name and who you hiding from?


Close. Hiding from the same type of folks as most other people here. An yeah, if you're female between 18 an' 82, i'll watch the street lights flicker as this baby cranks up. Or male and have showed me somethin' no man has before.


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## shimmer (Aug 26, 2008)

Sunnysideup said:


> I read this earlier, and replied to it.....The part that got me was 'depression sometimes being terminal'
> I thought about this, hard...I come from a couple different sides of this fence. I had a sister n law that committed suicide at the age of 24. I also had a sister that died from cancer at the age of 26...This phrase made me think that maybe BOTH of them were terminal....but, they are not the same. My sis n law DID have a choice, she had a choice to live or die, so I don't think she was terminal. My sister DIDN'T have a choice, she was going to die no matter what she did.
> So I am putting that phrase into my debunk list....It isn't terminal, it is a choice...a stupid choice at that.


Eh, insurance companies?


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## Dev (Aug 26, 2008)

I agree that in some cases suicide is a selfish act. When a person fails to recognize their life means more to others (notable family) than themselves and that it's in best interest for everyone important that they lead a happy and fulfilled life. However at the same time you have to understand the reasons that drive a person to suicide. 

Sometimes people blame themselves for everything that goes wrong even if it's not their fault. They see themselves as a burden on others and themselves. To alleviate they pain the perceive to cause others they take their life. Selfless rather than selfish.


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