# 40+ lbs with 12 Plants in 2 Rooms on a Flip



## Renfro (Jan 4, 2019)

These started 12/12 on 12/11/18 so they are about 23 days into flowering. Another 47ish to go.

Strain is Gorilla Glue #4. With this strain I manage 42 to 48 pounds.

Each row that has the galvanized trellis rig have 2 plants. 6 plants per room, 2 rooms on a flip. Each room has 9600 watts of lighting. 6000 DE overhead and 2400w vertical end row lights with batwings plus I use and 2 x 600 watt verticals between rows. The side lighting is on a high temperature cutoff in the rare event things get too hot.

My plants are in black 10 gallon buckets. The 2 oddball plants in the rolling white 5 gallon buckets are my girlfriends plants.

All buckets are top feed drain to waste (bucket in bucket with hose to floor drain). I use Berger BM6 HP medium. I cut my clones from plants about 14-20 days into 12/12 so as to improve branching. Once rooted and transplanted into 10 gallon buckets my plants veg for about 40 days from clone in a dedicated veg room and are then moved into the flowering rooms after a harvest and cleanup. Then they are vegged another 10-14 days to get them trellised out sideways to maximize canopy area, create more bud stalks and keep it even as possible.

Feed is General Hydroponics Flora 3 part with Armor Si and Calimagic. I also add Advanced Nutrients B52 and Age Old Mycorrhizae (dry) and Advanced Nutrients Carboload to feed those microbes. pH 6.3 to 6.7 using Advanced pH up and down.

Each room has a 4 ton ceiling mount minisplits (also on the flip with the lights), natural gas CO2 generators, autopilot controllers, swamp coolers to add humidity when required and dehumidifiers to keep it from getting to high (not a problem often here in this dry climate). RO filter provides clean H2O.

For scale purposes the galvanized pipe trellis rigs are 5 feet tall from the floor, 4 feet wide and 8 feet long.


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## Renfro (Jan 4, 2019)

Day 24


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## Thundercat (Jan 5, 2019)

Awesome setup!


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## diggs99 (Jan 5, 2019)

sick setup, nice job


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## OzCocoLoco (Jan 5, 2019)

48 pounds from 12 plants ?


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## Gquebed (Jan 5, 2019)

OzCocoLoco said:


> 48 pounds from 12 plants ?


Looks like a few more than 12 to me. But still not enough for 40 lbs


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## mmjmon (Jan 5, 2019)

crazy nice



Renfro said:


> Day 24


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## dr.tomb (Jan 5, 2019)

That's definitely doable..hes running 19.2kw of light. That means he pulls 2.3 to 2.5p a light. I've hit. 1.9p on one of my grows, and i could definitely believe I can and will hit 3p per 1000w one day with the right strain.


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## Renfro (Jan 5, 2019)

dr.tomb said:


> That's definitely doable..hes running 19.2kw of light. That means he pulls 2.3 to 2.5p a light. I've hit. 1.9p on one of my grows, and i could definitely believe I can and will hit 3p per 1000w one day with the right strain.


Strain has a lot to do with it. I need a plant that likes to get really big and has excellent yield potential to meet my goals. I have had several strains that just don't make the yield cut. So it is highly strain dependent.


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## Renfro (Jan 5, 2019)

Gquebed said:


> Looks like a few more than 12 to me. But still not enough for 40 lbs


Only 12 plants are mine and being counted towards the goal. There are two other plants in white buckets that my girlfriend has in there but my 6 rows each have 2 plants. Stay tuned. Happy growing!


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## BigHornBuds (Jan 5, 2019)

Subbed up. 
But why not do more plants per light n less veg?


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## Renfro (Jan 5, 2019)

BigHornBuds said:


> Subbed up.
> But why not do more plants per light n less veg?


I have a 24 plant count medical and so I am allowed only 12 in flower.

My Girlfriend only has a 6 plant count medical, she has a few in veg and a couple in flower


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## BigHornBuds (Jan 5, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I have a 24 plant count medical and so I am allowed only 12 in flower.
> 
> My Girlfriend only has a 6 plant count medical, she has a few in veg and a couple in flower


Fuck ya... way to max out your numbers 
What bulbs are you running in the DEs? How often do you change them?


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## Renfro (Jan 5, 2019)

BigHornBuds said:


> Fuck ya... way to max out your numbers
> What bulbs are you running in the DEs? How often do you change them?


I have the hortilux bulbs in them. I change them about once a year.

As far as ballasts go, some are Phantom ballasts, some are sun system and a few nanolux. I started with all nanolux ballasts and they kept crapping out so after several warranty exchanges I just started replacing them with the other ballasts and so far they havent had a single failure. I always keep a new spare on the shelf for if, rather, when another nanolux craps out.


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## BigHornBuds (Jan 5, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I have the hortilux bulbs in them. I change them about once a year.
> 
> As far as ballasts go, some are Phantom ballasts, some are sun system and a few nanolux. I started with all nanolux ballasts and they kept crapping out so after several warranty exchanges I just started replacing them with the other ballasts and so far they havent had a single failure. I always keep a new spare on the shelf for if, rather, when another nanolux craps out.


Nice
I’m running Phillips n changing them out ev 4-6 months .


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## dr.tomb (Jan 5, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Strain has a lot to do with it. I need a plant that likes to get really big and has excellent yield potential to meet my goals. I have had several strains that just don't make the yield cut. So it is highly strain dependent.



Totally agree. I had a suggestion of a seed company called BOG seeds from a mentor. I heard they are fast flowering, large quantities of excellent tasting, high quality product. Im pheno hunting,. I popped at least 14 of each of the Blue Kush, Sweet Cindy, L.S.D. and Bogglegum (there is apparently a juicy fruit one and a hubba hubba grape flavour)


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## Renfro (Jan 5, 2019)

dr.tomb said:


> Totally agree. I had a suggestion of a seed company called BOG seeds from a mentor. I heard they are fast flowering, large quantities of excellent tasting, high quality product. Im pheno hunting,. I popped at least 14 of each of the Blue Kush, Sweet Cindy, L.S.D. and Bogglegum (there is apparently a juicy fruit one and a hubba hubba grape flavour)


I remember BOG (Bushy Old Grower) from the early 2000's from overgrow.com. He sent me some beans from australia, bogglegum was one of those. Good guy, great beans.


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## Renfro (Jan 5, 2019)

BigHornBuds said:


> Nice
> I’m running Phillips n changing them out ev 4-6 months .


Yeah I should probably change them out more often, just hate busting out the cashola for them, but I also understand that a 10% loss in light output probably equates to a 10% loss in yield so they do pay for themselves.

How do you like the Phillips bulbs? Do you think they are better than the Hortilux, or perhaps same bang for less buck?


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## BigHornBuds (Jan 5, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah I should probably change them out more often, just hate busting out the cashola for them, but I also understand that a 10% loss in light output probably equates to a 10% loss in yield so they do pay for themselves.
> 
> How do you like the Phillips bulbs? Do you think they are better than the Hortilux, or perhaps same bang for less buck?


They are worth every penny, but if you try to push 3 crops out of them (just flower)the yeild starts to fall. I find 2 is the sweet spot, the loss in the 3rd go isn’t worth the cost of the bulbs.


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## 70's natureboy (Jan 6, 2019)

Very impressive. I see lots of time and money involved here. Is this how guys sell weed for $100/oz? I don't think so. I still think the $100/oz weed is mostly labor free outdoor weed. I would pass out if i saw your light bill.


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## BigHornBuds (Jan 6, 2019)

70's natureboy said:


> Very impressive. I see lots of time and money involved here. Is this how guys sell weed for $100/oz? I don't think so. I still think the $100/oz weed is mostly labor free outdoor weed. I would pass out if i saw your light bill.


Nope not here , 100$ oz of high test . 
Outdoor is half that. 
People are going to need to be doin 1.5 - 2 gpw to keep up, or it’s not worth the time.


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## Renfro (Jan 6, 2019)

70's natureboy said:


> ... I would pass out if i saw your light bill.


Gotta spend money to make money.


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## Renfro (Jan 7, 2019)

Update day 27


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## Renfro (Jan 9, 2019)

I had a 600 watt ballast failure on a vertical HPS between two rows in room B.

I am going to replace it with a 315 watt CMH and see how that compares.

https://hydrobuilder.com/phantom-315-watt-cmh-vertical-hanging-grow-light-kit.html?___store=default

That is what I ordered, with the 3000k bulb (or is it 3100k).


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## waxman420 (Jan 9, 2019)

Wtf is the lonely CFL doing lol is it green


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## Bongsmoke420 (Jan 9, 2019)

Stacked mate big room looks good


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## Renfro (Jan 9, 2019)

waxman420 said:


> Wtf is the lonely CFL doing lol is it green


lol its not all the way screwed in. I just use it when cleaning the rooms between runs.


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## myke (Jan 10, 2019)

Great job!Nice and clean.

Im new so some questions if you dont mind.

This BM6 is soil?

Im interested in your opinion of the GG4.I have a clone in rdwc that seams to really like/need calmag.Is this normal?

Thanks,


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## Renfro (Jan 10, 2019)

myke said:


> Great job!Nice and clean.
> 
> Im new so some questions if you dont mind.
> 
> ...


The BM6 HP is a soiless mix like Sunshine or Promix, peat based. I prefer the Berger BM6 HP because its cheaper, never got a bag of bugs with it and the pH is always right (had some sunshine that had too much lime in it and it threw me for a loop) The 6 in the BM6 stands for the mix pH. I have tested bales at 5.8 to 6 fresh so they do well.

I love GG4. It's fire weed, yields above average for sure. I have always had to give it a little cal mag but no more than other strains I have grown. If you keep that pH at 6.5 for soiless feeds you shouldn't have any problems with her.

Good luck with your grow and be sure to share your results with us!


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## myke (Jan 10, 2019)

6.5 ph ? kinda high isnt it? im in rdwc but just learning. thx


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## Renfro (Jan 10, 2019)

myke said:


> 6.5 ph ? kinda high isnt it? im in rdwc but just learning. thx


No it's just right for soiless or soil grows. Straight hydro requires a lower pH around 5.8.


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## myke (Jan 10, 2019)

yes of course,for some reason i was thinking soiless is hydro.

what strength of food do girls that big get?


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## Renfro (Jan 10, 2019)

myke said:


> yes of course,for some reason i was thinking soiless is hydro.


Yeah I used to think that too but once I raised my pH the plants looked so much happier, turns out the soiless and soil are a buffer so fwiw 6.5 has worked for me. I used to run SoG in flood and drain tables, then went to DWC for a while due to plant count limitations (gotta grow 'em big), and now I'm on soiless for a while. I suppose I get bored and wanna change things up.

I typically feed the big'uns at about at about 1200 to 1250 PPM nutrients before adding the B52. Using RO water it's all good stuff.


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## kingzt (Jan 11, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah I used to think that too but once I raised my pH the plants looked so much happier, turns out the soiless and soil are a buffer so fwiw 6.5 has worked for me. I used to run SoG in flood and drain tables, then went to DWC for a while due to plant count limitations (gotta grow 'em big), and now I'm on soiless for a while. I suppose I get bored and wanna change things up.
> 
> I typically feed the big'uns at about at about 1200 to 1250 PPM nutrients before adding the B52. Using RO water it's all good stuff.


Very nice, I’m going to try your watering with 6.5. I usually water right at 6. With some plants I always seem to get lack luster leaves or purple stems without the cooler temps and strains that shouldn’t be turning purple. Why do you think that you’ve seen better results at higher ph? Havr soilless growers been watering at a ph too low? I’m going to give it a try because peat is acidic anyways


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## Renfro (Jan 11, 2019)

kingzt said:


> Very nice, I’m going to try your watering with 6.5. I usually water right at 6. With some plants I always seem to get lack luster leaves or purple stems without the cooler temps and strains that shouldn’t be turning purple. Why do you think that you’ve seen better results at higher ph? Havr soilless growers been watering at a ph too low? I’m going to give it a try because peat is acidic anyways


I think the soiless mix acts as a buffer like soil thus the need for the higher pH. I think there has always been a debate on the proper pH for soiless. Give it a try maybe on just one plant...


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## dubekoms (Jan 11, 2019)

kingzt said:


> Very nice, I’m going to try your watering with 6.5. I usually water right at 6. With some plants I always seem to get lack luster leaves or purple stems without the cooler temps and strains that shouldn’t be turning purple. Why do you think that you’ve seen better results at higher ph? Havr soilless growers been watering at a ph too low? I’m going to give it a try because peat is acidic anyways


Here's a good article on ph in a peat based soilless mix. It's the calcium carbonate (alkalinity) in your water that will affect the ph of your medium. The ph of the water doesn't matter so much. Ask long as you don't have a ton of carbonates in you're water the medium will buffer the ph for you.


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## dubekoms (Jan 11, 2019)

Renfro said:


> The BM6 HP is a soiless mix like Sunshine or Promix, peat based. I prefer the Berger BM6 HP because its cheaper, never got a bag of bugs with it and the pH is always right (had some sunshine that had too much lime in it and it threw me for a loop) The 6 in the BM6 stands for the mix pH. I have tested bales at 5.8 to 6 fresh so they do well.
> 
> I love GG4. It's fire weed, yields above average for sure. I have always had to give it a little cal mag but no more than other strains I have grown. If you keep that pH at 6.5 for soiless feeds you shouldn't have any problems with her.
> 
> Good luck with your grow and be sure to share your results with us!


Berger products are great and cheap. Nice to see someone else using it around here.


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## Way2-High (Jan 11, 2019)

BigHornBuds said:


> Nope not here , 100$ oz of high test .
> Outdoor is half that.
> People are going to need to be doin 1.5 - 2 gpw to keep up, or it’s not worth the time.


Wtf you get OZs of quality for a $100???? Fuck it’s like $100 for 1/2 O here.


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## Lucky Luke (Jan 11, 2019)

Way2-High said:


> Wtf you get OZs of quality for a $100???? Fuck it’s like $100 for 1/2 O here.


you have only just gone legal...wait for the price plummet.


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## BigHornBuds (Jan 11, 2019)

Way2-High said:


> Wtf you get OZs of quality for a $100???? Fuck it’s like $100 for 1/2 O here.


It’s all who you know ....


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## Renfro (Jan 12, 2019)

dubekoms said:


> Here's a good article on ph in a peat based soilless mix. It's the calcium carbonate (alkalinity) in your water that will affect the ph of your medium. The ph of the water doesn't matter so much. Ask long as you don't have a ton of carbonates in you're water the medium will buffer the ph for you.


Sorry, I missed the article?


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## dubekoms (Jan 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Sorry, I missed the article?


I should've bolded it lol click on the first word on the post, it's a link.


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## BCBLondesLEDGrowLights (Jan 14, 2019)

I love your setup bro, you are maximizing your space, your plant count, everything, very awesome!


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## im4satori (Jan 14, 2019)

love the vertical bulbs


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## Renfro (Jan 14, 2019)

nxsov180db said:


> What's your veg time?


Transplanted clones veg for about 30-40 days in a dedicated veg room with 3 x 1000 watt MH, then they are moved into the flowering rooms and vegged 10 to 14 more days to trellis them and let them gradually acclimate to a hotter, brighter, more CO2 enriched environment. I dial the lights, CO2 and temps up in increments so as not to shock them so hard.


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## Renfro (Jan 15, 2019)

Update Day 34 - About halfway thru 12/12 - I think I flipped them to flower a little early, not as big as usual but still nice.


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## Renfro (Jan 15, 2019)

nxsov180db said:


> I love the scrog net idea for the sides and everything.. do you remove bud sites in the center off the plant? seems like it would get kind of crowded inside if you didnt.


I can't really get in there and it's way too much trouble. I just take that larfy stuff and make edibles and salves with it all.


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## Renfro (Jan 19, 2019)

Just another update, early day 38. Finally got my replacement vertical light for between rows in room B. Replacing the old dead 600 watt HPS (lumatek) with a Phantom 315 CMH 3100K.


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## diggs99 (Jan 19, 2019)

Freakin beautiful room renfro

Very nice job


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## YouGrowYourWay (Jan 21, 2019)

Absolutely beautiful! Long vegging is where it's at!


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## Way2-High (Jan 21, 2019)

Kickass! Great job!


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## kingzt (Jan 21, 2019)

How often do you feed and how high of ec are your feedings during flower?


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## Justinsbudzzz (Jan 22, 2019)

Great grow man seems like u got a great setup .and pulling some weight .looking forward to seeing the rest of ur updates and the finished product .I'm suprised growman420 hasn't commented on this post and told u you have bugs lmao . But ya man like I said great grow looks like fire


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## Renfro (Jan 22, 2019)

kingzt said:


> How often do you feed and how high of ec are your feedings during flower?


I feed them every watering (daily) PPM is at 1200 - 1250 when in flower.

Thanks for the positive remarks folks. I'll be sure to keep updating.


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## BigHornBuds (Jan 22, 2019)

What are you using for a trimmer ?


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## Renfro (Jan 22, 2019)

BigHornBuds said:


> What are you using for a trimmer ?


I tried a twister t4 and didn't like how it beat up the buds, now it just collects dust. Now I just use my buddy to trim it all. Takes a while but in the end it's all done right.


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## Thundercat (Jan 22, 2019)

Nothing beats a proper hand trim.


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## MidWestMayhem (Jan 22, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I tried a twister t4 and didn't like how it beat up the buds, now it just collects dust. Now I just use my buddy to trim it all. Takes a while but in the end it's all done right.


2 of you trim 40 pounds together? Stay safe out there


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## Renfro (Jan 22, 2019)

MidWestMayhem said:


> 2 of you trim 40 pounds together? Stay safe out there


Yeah, usually takes about a month. lol


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## myke (Jan 22, 2019)

Looks great.
If you don’t mind me asking what ppm do you start your rooted clones at?
My GG#4 have just rooted and thought your probably the best guy to ask. Thanks.
My mom is sitting at 1200 and loving life


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## Renfro (Jan 22, 2019)

myke said:


> Looks great.
> If you don’t mind me asking what ppm do you start your rooted clones at?
> My GG#4 have just rooted and thought your probably the best guy to ask. Thanks.
> My mom is sitting at 1200 and loving life


TBH I start them on my full strength veg nutes, right about 1000 PPM. I have never seen signs of plants not liking it. Many will argue this point I am sure but the plants don't show any signs of burn or anything. Everyone in my veg room gets the same feed.


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## myke (Jan 22, 2019)

Thanks much
When I first got the clone I had it at about 500. Was getting yellow added calmag brought it to 750. Once I got to 1000 it looked better. Evan went as far as 1400 but that was with Epson and calmag. So your 1000 suggestion is what I was thinking too. Some plants just like it.


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## ttystikk (Jan 22, 2019)

Looks awesome in there. Is that ebb n flood?


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## Renfro (Jan 22, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Looks awesome in there. Is that ebb n flood?


Soiless mix top feed. Berger BM6 HP


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## ttystikk (Jan 22, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Soiless mix top feed. Berger BM6 HP


Berger is a feed brand?

So they're hand watered? Daily?

I see a line at the bottom of the buckets, guessing that's just a drain, then?


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## Renfro (Jan 22, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Berger is a feed brand?
> 
> So they're hand watered? Daily?
> 
> I see a line at the bottom of the buckets, guessing that's just a drain, then?


Berger is the soiless mix I am using. Used to use Promix HP and Sunshine 4 but this stuff is better and cheaper.

They are hand watered as needed. They go from needing water about every 2 days to every 24 hours.

That line goes to the floor drains. It's a bucket in a bucket setup.


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## Renfro (Jan 22, 2019)

Day 41 update.


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## ttystikk (Jan 22, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Day 41 update.
> 
> View attachment 4269139 View attachment 4269140 View attachment 4269141 View attachment 4269142 View attachment 4269144 View attachment 4269145 View attachment 4269146 View attachment 4269148


How much cleanup and training of the plants do you do?


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## Renfro (Jan 22, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> How much cleanup and training of the plants do you do?


When I move them into the flowering room I trellis them while they veg a little longer and while they stretch. This round I flipped too soon and they didn't get as big as usual. Other than that I don't really put much time into them, it's pretty hard to get to a lot of it until harvest. I just take all the larfy stuff and make edibles and salves from that. Usually about 6 - 7 pounds of larfy stuff in addition to the main harvest.

Ill journal the next run from the beginning.


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## myke (Jan 22, 2019)

Why the bucket in bucket?Thx.


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## ttystikk (Jan 22, 2019)

myke said:


> Why the bucket in bucket?Thx.


For drainage.


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## Renfro (Jan 22, 2019)

All I am doing with the trellis is making them grow sideways and not up so they can get as much canopy as possible. After that the trellis is there for support.


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## Renfro (Jan 22, 2019)

myke said:


> Why the bucket in bucket?Thx.


Top bucket contains the medium and roots, has a bunch of 1/4" holes in the bottom. Bottom bucket has the drain line and simply acts as a drainage bucket. They are 10 gallon carlisle buckets (trash cans)


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## Renfro (Jan 22, 2019)

Another thing I did between my rooms is I built what I call a light lock. Its a small closet size space between rooms with a pocket door on one side and a normal door on the other side. This way one can go from a dark room to a light room without any light getting through. I have these between room A and B and between room A and the veg room. I even have one at the entry as well (room B to the stairwell / laundry room. My medical count papers remain on the locked door to the grow.


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## myke (Jan 22, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Another thing I did between my rooms is I built what I call a light lock. Its a small closet size space between rooms with a pocket door on one side and a normal door on the other side. This way one can go from a dark room to a light room without any light getting through. I have these between room A and B and between room A and the veg room. I even have one at the entry as well (room B to the stairwell / laundry room. My medical count papers remain on the locked door to the grow.


I need something like that,Im always working in the veg room when flower is in the dark.light leaks are killing me.


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## Couch_Lock (Jan 23, 2019)

Dayum, Renfro is probably capable of getting a dispensary liscence, or close to it. Impressive indoor grow, guy.


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## Renfro (Jan 24, 2019)

Couch_Lock said:


> Dayum, Renfro is probably capable of getting a dispensary liscence, or close to it. Impressive indoor grow, guy.


Actually working on it in a few other states. lol the admission fee is high though. Don't want the retail dispensary license, just the cultivation license.


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## Renfro (Jan 24, 2019)

Here is a flash back photo of room B back in July of 2016 when I was running 5 gallon buckets and had yet to install the vertical lights.

 

You can see what I mean by I flipped this current round too soon as this old photo shows how tall they usually get. Same GG4 cut.


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## Renfro (Jan 24, 2019)

Day 43 update.


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## gr865 (Jan 27, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I have the hortilux bulbs in them. I change them about once a year.
> 
> As far as ballasts go, some are Phantom ballasts, some are sun system and a few nanolux. I started with all nanolux ballasts and they kept crapping out so after several warranty exchanges I just started replacing them with the other ballasts and so far they havent had a single failure. I always keep a new spare on the shelf for if, rather, when another nanolux craps out.


Hey bud just began reading your journal, very impressed I am.
I've run 2 Nanolux 315W NC's for 5 or 6 grows now, when you say crapped out, do you mean they just quit. One of these take about 40 seconds after power on to fire but they have been fine, could it be the DE's? Damn, just passed up a batch of used Phantoms with full warranty.
Look forward to catching up here.

Get a chance stop by my roost and give it a look.

GR


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## Renfro (Jan 27, 2019)

gr865 said:


> Hey bud just began reading your journal, very impressed I am.
> I've run 2 Nanolux 315W NC's for 5 or 6 grows now, when you say crapped out, do you mean they just quit. One of these take about 40 seconds after power on to fire but they have been fine, could it be the DE's?
> Look forward to catching up here.
> 
> ...


Yeah they for the most part would just quit. I did have one that would just blow up a bulb every day or two so it had to go. Hard for me to trust that company but I am glad to hear you had better luck as I was looking into the 1000W DE CMH.


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## ttystikk (Jan 27, 2019)

gr865 said:


> Hey bud just began reading your journal, very impressed I am.
> I've run 2 Nanolux 315W NC's for 5 or 6 grows now, when you say crapped out, do you mean they just quit. One of these take about 40 seconds after power on to fire but they have been fine, could it be the DE's? Damn, just passed up a batch of used Phantoms with full warranty.
> Look forward to catching up here.
> 
> ...


Stay away from Phantom. Everyone I know has had bad luck with them.


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## gr865 (Jan 27, 2019)

Did not see the height of your room, you can do 1000W DE's?
My hydro guy gives me some great deals and takes exchanges so I may switch to the Phantoms soon. They are not attached to the hoods are they, I like keeping my ballast outside the tent?


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## Renfro (Jan 27, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Stay away from Phantom. Everyone I know has had bad luck with them.


So far I have had good luck with my Phantom DE HPS ballasts. Hopefully they keep rocking.


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## ttystikk (Jan 27, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So far I have had good luck with my Phantom DE HPS ballasts. Hopefully they keep rocking.


Fingers crossed!

I'm happier running LED anyway.


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## Renfro (Jan 27, 2019)

gr865 said:


> Did not see the height of your room, you can do 1000W DE's?
> My hydro guy gives me some great deals and takes exchanges so I may switch to the Phantoms soon. They are not attached to the hoods are they, I like keeping my ballast outside the tent?


Yeah the ballast is separate. Even the nanolux 1000w de you can put an extension on. It's very difficult to change a bad ballast when it's hung over my plants. My room has 8 feet to the bottom of the floor joists and I nest my lights as far up as I can, in most cases between the floor joists to maximize how tall I can get my plants.


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## gr865 (Jan 27, 2019)

I am not an electrical wiz, aren't HPS ballast different from CMH ballast/


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## ttystikk (Jan 27, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah the ballast is separate. Even the nanolux 1000w de you can put an extension on. It's very difficult to change a bad ballast when it's hung over my plants. My room has 8 feet to the bottom of the floor joists and I nest my lights as far up as I can, in most cases between the floor joists to maximize how tall I can get my plants.


Isn't that a fire hazard? Those fuckers get plenty hot enough to set wood on fire...


----------



## Renfro (Jan 27, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Fingers crossed!
> 
> I'm happier running LED anyway.


Yeah I have a LED on order to test, gonna try it on the end of one of my rows where I currently use a vertical 400 HPS with a batwing.


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## Renfro (Jan 27, 2019)

gr865 said:


> I am not an electrical wiz, aren't HPS ballast different from CMH ballast/


yes.


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## gr865 (Jan 27, 2019)

So you run both HPS and CMH? Sorry I need to catch up on your journal.


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## ttystikk (Jan 27, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah I have a LED on order to test, gonna try it on the end of one of my rows where I currently use a vertical 400 HPS with a batwing.


Keep it warmer than you would with HID. The good LED lights are more efficient, which means they produce less heat. Plants frankly like a certain amount of heat to grow their best.


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## Renfro (Jan 27, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Isn't that a fire hazard? Those fuckers get plenty hot enough to set wood on fire...


No it's never posed a problem. I do have one thats up by my lineset for the AC unit and I made a heat shield from a soda can and put a little fan up there. lol works good.


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## Renfro (Jan 27, 2019)

gr865 said:


> So you run both HPS and CMH? Sorry I need to catch up on your journal.


I only have one CMH right now I am testing. I had a 600 watt vertical light between two rows quit and I stuck a 315 vertical CMH there.

Looking at the DE 1000W CMH but I think I don't have enough ceiling height for that as people say it needs to be further from the canopy.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 27, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I only have one CMH right now I am testing. I had a 600 watt vertical light between two rows quit and I stuck a 315 vertical CMH there.
> 
> Looking at the DE 1000W CMH but I think I don't have enough ceiling height for that as people say it needs to be further from the canopy.


I ran vertical 315W CMH and I liked it a lot. I'd say it's the equivalent of about 500W of HPS. The square wave ballast is the secret to performance with them.


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## Renfro (Jan 27, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Keep it warmer than you would with HID. The good LED lights are more efficient, which means they produce less heat. Plants frankly like a certain amount of heat to grow their best.


Yeah the HID lights make enough heat to keep the room at 90F canopy. I think I could do LED on all my row ends and be fine with the heat. Perhaps not push the AC so hard or add more lights LOL


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## ttystikk (Jan 27, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah the HID lights make enough heat to keep the room at 90F canopy. I think I could do LED on all my row ends and be fine with the heat. Perhaps not push the AC so hard or add more lights LOL


Both!


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## gr865 (Jan 27, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> I ran vertical 315W CMH and I liked it a lot. I'd say it's the equivalent of about 500W of HPS. The square wave ballast is the secret to performance with them.


I agree, ran 400W HPS for a bit and my 315W is stronger than that. I would have to say around 500W HPS, with less heat.
Since I can rotate my plants as I did in my G13 grow with my Old SS 400W LED I am thinking of adding it in with this grow. 
I would like to add more UV towards the end of my grow. I know this is a silly question, my long time friend, but do you have any thoughts on adding UV?


----------



## Renfro (Jan 27, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Both!


I would love to find a way to get more out of those plants. I am hoping the more even coverage of the LED on my row ends will get more yield outta those spots by making the corners more beefy.


gr865 said:


> I agree, ran 400W HPS for a bit and my 315W is stronger than that. I would have to say around 500W HPS, with less heat.
> Since I can rotate my plants as I did in my G13 grow with my Old SS 400W LED I am thinking of adding it in with this grow.
> I would like to add more UV towards the end of my grow. I know this is a silly question, my long time friend, but do you have any thoughts on adding UV?


I posted a thread a few days ago about 10k DE MH bulbs, no replies yet. I am thinking of changing my overhead lighting over for the last week or 10 days to max out resin production. Get your yield from the HPS and finish with the 10k MH, lots of UV light.


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## gr865 (Jan 27, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I would love to find a way to get more out of those plants. I am hoping the more even coverage of the LED on my row ends will get more yield outta those spots by making the corners more beefy.
> 
> I posted a thread a few days ago about 10k DE MH bulbs, no replies yet. I am thinking of changing my overhead lighting over for the last week or 10 days to max out resin production. Get your yield from the HPS and finish with the 10k MH, lots of UV light.


So the 315W CMH will give all the UV needed/area?


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## ttystikk (Jan 27, 2019)

gr865 said:


> I agree, ran 400W HPS for a bit and my 315W is stronger than that. I would have to say around 500W HPS, with less heat.
> Since I can rotate my plants as I did in my G13 grow with my Old SS 400W LED I am thinking of adding it in with this grow.
> I would like to add more UV towards the end of my grow. I know this is a silly question, my long time friend, but do you have any thoughts on adding UV?


You can if you want. Add UVB for best results.


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## Renfro (Jan 27, 2019)

gr865 said:


> So the 315W CMH will give all the UV needed/area?


no. not at all.

I have 1000 watt DE HPS lights overhead. Replacing the bulbs in them to the finishing bulbs (1000 watt DE MH 10k) is what I propose


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## ttystikk (Jan 27, 2019)

Renfro said:


> no. not at all.
> 
> I have 1000 watt DE HPS lights overhead. Replacing the bulbs in them to the finishing bulbs (1000 watt DE MH 10k) is what I propose


My CMH lights were all about 4000k. The frost they made was great.

My LED lights are either 3000k or 3500k and both make the best frost. 

If you aren't getting good resin and aroma, maybe you don't have enough sulfur in your nutrient mix. I use epsom salt, dissolved in solution separately from other nutrients before adding to the reservoir.


----------



## Renfro (Jan 27, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> My CMH lights were all about 4000k. The frost they made was great.
> 
> My LED lights are either 3000k or 3500k and both make the best frost.
> 
> If you aren't getting good resin and aroma, maybe you don't have enough sulfur in your nutrient mix. I use epsom salt, dissolved in solution separately from other nutrients before adding to the reservoir.


I am definitely getting great resin and terpene levels but I am always looking for a way to make it better.

One time I had a HPS bulb go out about halfway into flower. I just stuck in a MH bulb that I had laying around. Those plants didn't make as much yield but they were noticeably frostier due to the extra UV light. So I figured i would try the 10k MH finishing bulbs for the last part of a run to see if that increases resin production without loosing much yield.

I have heard the CMH definitely helps increase frost over a HPS due to the added UV. Do you think I would have issues with running overhead lights that were 1000 watt DE CMH? Would they be too close to the canopy? Keep in mind I normally get the plants even taller that this run as I flipped this one too soon.


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## Thundercat (Jan 27, 2019)

I wonder if you could get away with sliding a couple Samsung stripes into the middle of a plant to bulk up the center where no light can get? Internal lighting instead of jus side lighting?


----------



## gr865 (Jan 27, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> My CMH lights were all about 4000k. The frost they made was great.
> 
> My LED lights are either 3000k or 3500k and both make the best frost.
> 
> If you aren't getting good resin and aroma, maybe you don't have enough sulfur in your nutrient mix. I use epsom salt, dissolved in solution separately from other nutrients before adding to the reservoir.


I always use Epsom, and I add a bit to warm water in a cup then add to my rez.
Just sent a zip to my bud in NM and he call rejoicing about the fragrance and taste. I get stuff from him from CO dispensaries and the flavor and aroma are just not there.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 27, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I am definitely getting great resin and terpene levels but I am always looking for a way to make it better.
> 
> One time I had a HPS bulb go out about halfway into flower. I just stuck in a MH bulb that I had laying around. Those plants didn't make as much yield but they were noticeably frostier due to the extra UV light. So I figured i would try the 10k MH finishing bulbs for the last part of a run to see if that increases resin production without loosing much yield.
> 
> I have heard the CMH definitely helps increase frost over a HPS due to the added UV. Do you think I would have issues with running overhead lights that were 1000 watt DE CMH? Would they be too close to the canopy? Keep in mind I normally get the plants even taller that this run as I flipped this one too soon.


Just adding blue helps frost vs HPS. None of those lamps makes enough UV to matter. I've run a 10,000K finisher and it did little.

If you really want to add UV, use florescent lamps specifically designed for it. Be very careful not to be anywhere near them while they're running, use eye protection if you must.

Also be sure to harden the plants off to UV or they'll burn to a crisp.


----------



## Renfro (Jan 27, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> I wonder if you could get away with sliding a couple Samsung stripes into the middle of a plant to bulk up the center where no light can get? Internal lighting instead of jus side lighting?


My girlfriend said put christmas tree leds in there. Kinda on to something there but wow that would be a tangle. lol One run a buddy loaned me some cheap blurple LED lights and I put them under the rows between the plants and they added a tiny bit of yield but they were crap chinese lights, like 90 watts from the wall. More in the way than anything.


----------



## Thundercat (Jan 27, 2019)

Renfro said:


> My girlfriend said put christmas tree leds in there. Kinda on to something there but wow that would be a tangle. lol One run a buddy loaned me some cheap blurple LED lights and I put them under the rows between the plants and they added a tiny bit of yield but they were crap chinese lights, like 90 watts from the wall. More in the way than anything.


I think the long samsungs could be awesome inside the plant. They aren't crazy strong alone so I bet they wouldn't burn it and it would have to add weight to light the core of the plant.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 27, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> I wonder if you could get away with sliding a couple Samsung stripes into the middle of a plant to bulk up the center where no light can get? Internal lighting instead of jus side lighting?


Not worth it.

Train your plants to remain thin enough for light to penetrate to the middle from the sides, then hang vertical lighting on both sides.


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## Thundercat (Jan 27, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Not worth it.
> 
> Train your plants to remain thin enough for light to penetrate to the middle from the sides, then hang vertical lighting on both sides.
> View attachment 4271974


I am very specifically talking about in Renfro's grow. Not mine. He grows these massive caged plants and obviously wants to get the most from them. I figured adding light the only place he has left un-litmight help do that.


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## gr865 (Jan 28, 2019)

In most cases the limiting factor it light. Can you have too much? I think you can never too much light.
Cost is the biggest factor for lighting.


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## ttystikk (Jan 28, 2019)

gr865 said:


> In most cases the limiting factor it light. Can you have too much? I think you can never too much light.
> Cost is the biggest factor for lighting.


Yes you most certainly can have too much light.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 28, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> I am very specifically talking about in Renfro's grow. Not mine. He grows these massive caged plants and obviously wants to get the most from them. I figured adding light the only place he has left un-litmight help do that.


It looks to me like adequate light from the top will be enough. It sure doesn't look like they're suffering!


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## gr865 (Jan 28, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Yes you most certainly can have too much light.


You can cook the plants, but the point was to match your light to light. I have two 315's in my 4 x 4 is that too much, no. The 315's will cover 18 sqft the tent is 16, I have it set to cover a 4 x 2.5 plus but the plants are smothered in light. That is my goal, to smother the plants with light and along with training be able to produce a wonder gift of nature.


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## ttystikk (Jan 28, 2019)

gr865 said:


> You can cook the plants, but the point was to match your light to light. I have two 315's in my 4 x 4 is that too much, no. The 315's will cover 18 sqft the tent is 16, I have it set to cover a 4 x 2.5 plus but the plants are smothered in light. That is my goal, to smother the plants with light and along with training be able to produce a wonder gift of nature.


That isn't too much light. 

It also does nothing to disprove my point, which is that it's definitely possible to have too much light.

I think that two 315W CMH lights is great in a 4x4 tent, and you get both energy and heat reductions over the old standard 1000W HPS in the same space. I bet you're killing it in there.


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## gr865 (Jan 28, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> That isn't too much light.
> 
> It also does nothing to disprove my point, which is that it's definitely possible to have too much light.
> 
> I think that two 315W CMH lights is great in a 4x4 tent, and you get both energy and heat reductions over the old standard 1000W HPS in the same space. I bet you're killing it in there.


You know me, I never argue about points, show me and I will say, Yep, my friend you are correct.
I agree that the two 315's are good for this tent, been averaging 6 plus zips of smokable buds per plant in both my vertical and horizontal grows.
You do so much more researching than I, so I yield to your expertise.

Peace out my friend,
GR


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## Renfro (Jan 28, 2019)

Day 48 update.

    

Monster cropped babies for the next round are potted. They look so homely as they reveg from flower. I like to put a stake in before potting the clones so I don't damage roots later.


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## ttystikk (Jan 28, 2019)

gr865 said:


> You know me, I never argue about points, show me and I will say, Yep, my friend you are correct.
> I agree that the two 315's are good for this tent, been averaging 6 plus zips of smokable buds per plant in both my vertical and horizontal grows.
> You do so much more researching than I, so I yield to your expertise.
> 
> ...


I knew a dude who put both a 1000W HPS and a 1000W MH in a 4x4 tent and the plants were stunted, even with good heat management.

The key is optimum levels, just like it is with temps, nutes, etc.


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## gr865 (Jan 28, 2019)

[QUOTE="Renfro, post: 14715501, member: 1 are potted. They look so homely as they reveg from flower. I like to put a stake in before potting the clones so I don't damage roots later.
View attachment 4272660[/QUOTE]

I hope you have room, my MC, Barneys Farm LSD taken at day 33 and vegged way too long. 
 

Oh that at 19 plus zips smokable buds.


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## Renfro (Jan 28, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> I knew a dude who put both a 1000W HPS and a 1000W MH in a 4x4 tent and the plants were stunted, even with good heat management.
> 
> The key is optimum levels, just like it is with temps, nutes, etc.


I have had tips of buds that got too close to a light but were kept cool enough show chlorosis and totally turn white.

There definitely is a limit but if temps can be maintained sometimes you have a few buds get damaged to have a shit ton more yield on the rest. So it's always a balancing act when you are pushing things to the limit.


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## Renfro (Jan 28, 2019)

gr865 said:


> I hope you have room, my MC, Barneys Farm LSD taken at day 33 and vegged way too long.


Thats one gnarly trunk you have left there. LoL Good job man. I ran Barneys LSD for a bit like 10 years ago or so. Definitely had a little bit of something special in that buzz.


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## ttystikk (Jan 28, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Day 48 update.
> 
> View attachment 4272654 View attachment 4272655 View attachment 4272657 View attachment 4272659
> 
> ...


Do you monster crop every time?


----------



## Thundercat (Jan 28, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> It looks to me like adequate light from the top will be enough. It sure doesn't look like they're suffering!


Obviously his plants arent suffering they look beautiful. He already has lots of top light, and side lights. So middle lights seems like the next step!


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## Renfro (Jan 28, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Do you monster crop every time?


Yes, I do now. For plant count reasons I don't keep a mom. I started monster cropping because when I took clones before sending my plants into flower they would veg too long and become extremely cumbersome to move into the flowering rooms. Also I had to force them to flatten out and get wide once I moved them in and that caused them a significant amount of stress. Now I give them a little time to veg in the flower rooms and train them gradually. My mistake this run was flipping them so soon, thats gonna cost me in yield, I can already tell.

The monster cropping sure does make them branch out bigtime. So I am glad I tried it.


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## ttystikk (Jan 28, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yes, I do now. For plant count reasons I don't keep a mom. I started monster cropping because when I took clones before sending my plants into flower they would veg too long and become extremely cumbersome to move into the flowering rooms. Also I had to force them to flatten out and get wide once I moved them in and that caused them a significant amount of stress. Now I give them a little time to veg in the flower rooms and train them gradually. My mistake this run was flipping them so soon, thats gonna cost me in yield, I can already tell.
> 
> The monster cropping sure does make them branch out bigtime. So I am glad I tried it.


How long do you veg (after rooting the clones) before flip?


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## Renfro (Jan 28, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> How long do you veg (after rooting the clones) before flip?


They usually get about 45 days in the pots before flip. First 30 days or so is in the veg room, the last 10 to 14 days of that is in the flowering rooms.


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## gr865 (Jan 28, 2019)

*@ Renfro*

Have you considered air layering, you would not need to keep mothers.

I will be giving it a try on my next grow, AYAHUASCA PURPLE. Have used it on house plants for years so hopefully this will work in cannabis.


----------



## gr865 (Jan 28, 2019)

Renfro said:


> They usually get about 45 days in the pots before flip. First 30 days or so is in the veg room, the last 10 to 14 days of that is in the flowering rooms.


So you actually go under 12/12 light up to two weeks prior to when you consider it is in flower?


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## ttystikk (Jan 28, 2019)

Renfro said:


> They usually get about 45 days in the pots before flip. First 30 days or so is in the veg room, the last 10 to 14 days of that is in the flowering rooms.


So you veg in the bloom room?

I worked hard to develop my system so that bloom rooms did nothing but bloom, and they were never empty. I did this by developing a system where my plants were fully mobile and could be carried from the vegetative space to their blooming spot and set in place right when the old plant was removed.

This allowed me to pull 6 1/2 harvests a year from every spot in the bloom room, at 8 weeks a cycle.

The math is clear; 10 weeks (2 weeks veg, 8 weeks bloom) comes to 5.2 crops annually, where 8 weeks (bloom only) gets 6.5 annual crops. That's a whole extra harvest!

One way to keep up with the work is to run more cycles, each of which is smaller. If a full crop is 8 plants, then one option is to place 4 plants in bloom, then 4 weeks later place another 4 plants in bloom. Four weeks after that, the first 4 are ready so pull them out and immediately replace them with 4 more plants.

The advantage is that your harvests are staggered so the trimming workload is spread out, plus each stage is smaller in terms of plant count and therefore easier to deal with.

This isn't meant as criticism at all, just food for thought. I found that once the basics of environment, training and so on were sorted out, the biggest gains came from what amounts to process management, which is the science of getting the most output from the given inputs. One of the best ways to do that is careful management of time.


----------



## Renfro (Jan 28, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> So you veg in the bloom room?
> 
> I worked hard to develop my system so that bloom rooms did nothing but bloom, and they were never empty. I did this by developing a system where my plants were fully mobile and could be carried from the vegetative space to their blooming spot and set in place right when the old plant was removed.
> 
> ...


I don't wish to do any sort of perpetual. I like to clean the rooms really good between runs. I do see how the extra 14 days is basically downtime for a flower room. For me it is what it is. lol If I can get 4 good crops a year I am happy. Having a crop every 90 days is great for me. I like to downtime between harvests, trimming sucks lol.

I used to bring the plants in to flowering rooms massive and pop them right away. It was just too much stress on the plants with the high stress training required to make them fit. Plant counts suck, if I could have as many plants as I wanted I would have no reason to make them this big and my system would be a SoG in trays probably. lol


----------



## Renfro (Jan 28, 2019)

So I ordered some 10k DE MH finishing bulbs for my overhead lights. Plan to run them for like the last week or so to see if they increase resin production without sacrificing yield.


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## ttystikk (Jan 28, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So I ordered some 10k DE MH finishing bulbs for my overhead lights. Plan to run them for like the last week or so to see if they increase resin production without sacrificing yield.


I hope you have better luck with them than I did.


----------



## Renfro (Jan 28, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> I hope you have better luck with them than I did.


Well they were only 32 bucks a piece so thats not that bad. I wasn't gonna do it at 85 bucks a bulb but I found these https://hydrobuilder.com/ultra-sun-metal-halide-1000-watt-double-ended-10000k-lamp.html


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## Renfro (Jan 29, 2019)

gr865 said:


> *@ Renfro*
> 
> Have you considered air layering, you would not need to keep mothers.
> 
> I will be giving it a try on my next grow, AYAHUASCA PURPLE. Have used it on house plants for years so hopefully this will work in cannabis.


I have not, but I fail to see how that would help as they would be on a plant in flower... Please tell me what I am missing.


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## Renfro (Jan 29, 2019)

gr865 said:


> So you actually go under 12/12 light up to two weeks prior to when you consider it is in flower?


No. They are getting 24 hour light for the first 10 - 14 days in the flowering rooms. I use the end row lights to do this. Instead of being on at the same time as the overhead lights they are on when the other room is on. So the overhead lights run for 12 hours and then the ends run for 12 hours. I have a titan controller that runs those lights, each side of the controller has a trigger cord. I use one side of that controller for each rooms end row lights (400 watters). I just switch what side of the controller they are plugged into so when room A is on the end row lights in room B are running and that keeps them in veg. I hope that makes sense I am pretty high.


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## Couch_Lock (Jan 29, 2019)

Three LEC's might outresin that MH......just sayin


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## Renfro (Jan 29, 2019)

I think I will pop the 10k bulbs in for last 10 days in one room and last 7 days in the other and see what happens.


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## Couch_Lock (Jan 29, 2019)

I'm just jelly of ur grow space, bro.


----------



## Renfro (Jan 29, 2019)

Couch_Lock said:


> I'm just jelly of ur grow space, bro.


Thanks man. 1200 sqft. Took me 6 years to get it where it is now. I started with one flowering room running and no CO2 or air conditioner. Nice thing about that is I have ventilation system that serves as a backup if my AC goes out. I have the fresh air intake blowers connected to my autopilot controller so that if the room gets hotter than the AC should keep it at, it disables CO2 generation and vents. I also have my end row lights and between row lights on a high temp cutoff so they would kick off and wait for the room to cool down and wait another 15 minutes before coming back on. So if an AC unit stops and Im not home it handles it automatically. I can also set the nite temp lower than the day temp and when lights go out the fresh air kicks on and pushes out any ethylene gas out.


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## Couch_Lock (Jan 29, 2019)

Bet it took awhile to figure that all out! But sounds like you have it on auto pilot now......good deal, frees you up more too. If I knew you the past 3-4 yrs and lived nearby you'd have oodles of my loot banked....haha


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## ttystikk (Jan 29, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Thanks man. 1200 sqft. Took me 6 years to get it where it is now. I started with one flowering room running and no CO2 or air conditioner. Nice thing about that is I have ventilation system that serves as a backup if my AC goes out. I have the fresh air intake blowers connected to my autopilot controller so that if the room gets hotter than the AC should keep it at, it disables CO2 generation and vents. I also have my end row lights and between row lights on a high temp cutoff so they would kick off and wait for the room to cool down and wait another 15 minutes before coming back on. So if an AC unit stops and Im not home it handles it automatically. I can also set the nite temp lower than the day temp and when lights go out the fresh air kicks on and pushes out any ethylene gas out.


No ethylene gas from tanks.


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## bulimic (Jan 29, 2019)

awesome grow journal! beyond amazing what you've managed to do with small plant counts indoors.


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## Tiflis (Jan 29, 2019)

Couldn't stop reading. Thanks for sharing


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## Renfro (Jan 29, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> No ethylene gas from tanks.


It comes from the plants. If not ever vented in a sealed grow it could build up and cause early ripening.


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## diggs99 (Jan 29, 2019)

Renfro, hypothetical for ya

I am from Canada, 4 plant limit

If you were in the same situation, how would you grow to maximize your limit? 

I will have a blank canvas for my grow space/lights/environment, it will be tailored to what i need/want(prob looking at 6-8k budget max, less would be optimal lol). Electricity is expensive here, so i have been leaning towards cobs/leds for the future space.

Just curious how someone like yourself, who grows indoor fkn trees would go about it. Would you continue as you are? go perpetual? Keep a couple moms and keep taking clones for quick turnover? 

Sorry if this isnt the place to ask, i will delete this and send you a message if that works better.

Thanks


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## Renfro (Jan 29, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Renfro, hypothetical for ya
> 
> I am from Canada, 4 plant limit
> 
> ...


Well with a 4 plant limit I definitely wouldn't keep moms. I would take clones off my plants either before flipping to flower or I would take them about 15 to 20 days into flower. I would have two plants in flower and two in veg after they are rooted to be the next into flower, so a dedicated veg area is required. I wouldn't do perpetual as I believe that's a lot harder to keep pest free.

I would setup where I can have side lighting all around the plants and lighting over the plants. I want them big so I would use HPS for overhead lighting and LED would be fine for the sides. I would run CO2 and thus air conditioning. A solid trellis rig (I use 1/2" galvanized pipe) to hold the weight of the buds and to allow for training them so they grow wide as possible, you want one plant to fill out a 4x4 or 5x5 area once stretch is finished.

I would pick one strain that likes to get big and yields well. Plants that stay small are not good for this situation.

Basically it would be as I am doing it now, but perhaps you would want to do DWC or RDWC to help improve yields even more.

Basically grow em big! When limited to 4 plants, you want them as big as possible. You will get more that way than you would if you had another harvest per year with all the harvests being smaller.


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## diggs99 (Jan 29, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well with a 4 plant limit I definitely wouldn't keep moms. I would take clones off my plants either before flipping to flower or I would take them about 15 to 20 days into flower. I would have two plants in flower and two in veg after they are rooted to be the next into flower, so a dedicated veg area is required. I wouldn't do perpetual as I believe that's a lot harder to keep pest free.
> 
> I would setup where I can have side lighting all around the plants and lighting over the plants. I want them big so I would use HPS for overhead lighting and LED would be fine for the sides. I would run CO2 and thus air conditioning. A solid trellis rig (I use 1/2" galvanized pipe) to hold the weight of the buds and to allow for training them so they grow wide as possible, you want one plant to fill out a 4x4 or 5x5 area once stretch is finished.
> 
> ...



Thanks for taking the time to answer that.

It was along the same lines as I was thinking. 2 veg/ 2 flowering , separate rooms. I assumed longer veg to grow indoor trees like yours would be the most beneficial.

I am only in the planning stages for the room, it will be happening this spring, trying to get a head start on the research so I have everything bought and ready to install once the garage is built. The garage will be heated. Running dual head heat pump as heat/ac. It will also have 10` ceilings

I will have to do some reading on RDWC and DWC. not overly familiar with either to be honest.

Lighting i assume will be my biggest expense., My idea is to set it up exactly how i want, go big or go home type mentality i guess . Do it right the first time.

1000hps above each plant and led strips all around each trellised plant sounds like a beastly scenario for growing trees lol

I have been looking hard at the timber fattys or at building an equivalent. Our electric costs are expensive around here, so the efficiency may help in that area.

What size lights would you use to VEG? 600w? or also 1000`s?

I very much appreciate you running through that for me. very helpful info in that post.


----------



## Renfro (Jan 29, 2019)

In veg I use 1000w MH. I do this only to keep them sorta compact with shorter internodes. If I let them, they would get way to big to move without a lot of branches breaking. I use the MH lights and monster cropping to do this. Before I did that I had HPS and took clones before I flipped to flower. The plants ended up really big and long internode lengths. This made them very difficult to move. In my flower room I veg a little while to get them all stretched out wide and fill the area. All those branches that are turned sideways shoot new branches out of the nodes making for a massive canopy with lots of buds.

A single 1000MH could easily veg the two plants. Turn it down or use a led to root the clones. When potted you can start with the light dimmed and closer, move it up higher and turn it up as the plants get taller and wider.

10' ceilings is something I would love to have, I could grow bigger plants in bigger pots and have more yield. I would definitely build the trellis rig for a 5 x 10 area for the two plants. I currently use a 4x8 with my lower ceilings. All that side area is basically canopy when hit with good side light. So you have 5 sides of a box that get good light, with trellis to hold the weight of the buds. All thats left is the floor.

I would use 20 gallon pots with that ceiling height.

Another thing to consider is the 1000 DE CMH setups that are pretty new. I wanna try one but I haven't yet. Was looking at the nanolux ones even though I had a lot of problems with their DE HPS ballasts crapping out.

One may even setup two rooms like this and just let the plants live their whole life in there, adding the trellis and side lighting as needed. Have one room vegging while the other flowers. Doing it like that with 4 plants may be the way to go. Downside is that you need two ac units (or one minisplit with two heads), two co2 generators / controllers, two trellis rigs... you may wanna put some thought into this as thats what I would do if I had taller ceilings. Actually planning a future grow built in a metal shop building. I want 12 foot ceilings and grow them really high/wide. Two rooms, one vegs while the other flowers and then flips to flower and the other is now in veg.

You can get minisplit heat pumps that will also heat so you can kill two birds with one stone. Get like a 3 ton unit with two heads, one for each room. Or even a third head if you need heat in area outside of the rooms.

Do the math on how much side lighting you will use and then figure the tonnage based on all the heat including CO2 generator if you go that route.


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## diggs99 (Jan 29, 2019)

I have actually just stumbled down the 1000 DE CMH rabbit hole. i knew about the 315s and 630s, didnt even know a 1000de was made. Will be looking into these further for sure before making any decisions.

I love the idea of 2 separate rooms just flipping back and forth, seems very practical.

I just spoke with my Heating guy(close buddy) yesterday, we agreed on a dual head heat pump he called it, being my best choice. its like a bigger/better version of a mini split? thats how he explained it anyway. It provides both heat and AC. Not sure if that could be branched off to provide for 2 separate rooms inside the bigger grow space tho? sounds like it should be able to but i have no clue about that stuff .

Ya i wanted 12` ceilings and still may yet but the wife wants a loft up top , so im thinking 10` will keep the building a little lower. 6 months ago i started sketching up plans for this garage and loft, now changes are being made because my room has now taken priority. 

20g pots to finish? what would be your potting process ? 3-5gs straight to 20gs? 

So much knowledge in those 2 posts bro, thank you very much. Very helpful stuff


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## Renfro (Jan 29, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> I have actually just stumbled down the 1000 DE CMH rabbit hole. i knew about the 315s and 630s, didnt even know a 1000de was made. Will be looking into these further for sure before making any decisions.
> 
> I love the idea of 2 separate rooms just flipping back and forth, seems very practical.
> 
> ...


Well your rooms may need to be cooled when the other needs heat... Not sure if that one unit could heat one head while cooling the others. Also you want a unit that will cool when it's really cold outside (low ambient). You also need to make sure it will auto restart after a power outage. The inverter minisplit tech is great for our needs because it only runs as hard as it needs to, where other units are either on at full power or off. When it's cold outside my fans don't even turn on my outdoor unit. My units is speced to run down to 5 degrees outside, some will go even lower like down to -21.

So I am not sure what type of unit he wanted to give you but make sure it will work when its bitter outside and your lights are cranked.


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## Renfro (Jan 29, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> 20g pots to finish? what would be your potting process ? 3-5gs straight to 20gs?


When going with 20 gallon pots I may let the veg for a bit in 3 gallon pots then up to the 20's. Right now I just go directly to the 10 gallon pots lol.


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## buzworthy (Jan 29, 2019)

Digging the op I'll be lurking.


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## gr865 (Jan 29, 2019)

Did a 10 gallon Smart Pot on my Monster Crop grow, had it on a lazy Suzan so I would spin it in the tent to work on it. Would be so nice to have the room.


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## Renfro (Jan 29, 2019)

gr865 said:


> Did a 10 gallon Smart Pot on my Monster Crop grow, had it on a lazy Suzan so I would spin it in the tent to work on it. Would be so nice to have the room.


That's smart thinking!


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## gr865 (Jan 29, 2019)

Hell I may be old but I am no dummy!
This is about 15 days before flipping.


The square base have castors that match the groves in the tray so I can pull it back and forth, and the lazy Susan is attached to that square base, the screen stand on top of the LS is just to keep the fabric pot drained and not sitting in solution.
Was able to rotate it about 345 degrees, should have used longer feed lines.


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## ttystikk (Jan 30, 2019)

Renfro said:


> It comes from the plants. If not ever vented in a sealed grow it could build up and cause early ripening.


This is not true. Ethylene comes from incomplete combustion of natural gas or propane used to boost CO².

The only time plants emit it is during decomposition. If that's happening in your growroom I'd say you have a problem lol


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## ttystikk (Jan 30, 2019)

gr865 said:


> Hell I may be old but I am no dummy!
> This is about 15 days before flipping.
> View attachment 4273259
> 
> ...


Sweet!


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## ttystikk (Jan 30, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> I have actually just stumbled down the 1000 DE CMH rabbit hole. i knew about the 315s and 630s, didnt even know a 1000de was made. Will be looking into these further for sure before making any decisions.
> 
> I love the idea of 2 separate rooms just flipping back and forth, seems very practical.
> 
> ...


What's a dual head heat pump??


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 30, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Thanks for taking the time to answer that.
> 
> It was along the same lines as I was thinking. 2 veg/ 2 flowering , separate rooms. I assumed longer veg to grow indoor trees like yours would be the most beneficial.
> 
> ...


If you want to grow big plants you need time to let them grow.

If you're serious about 4 plants, do a perpetual grow and bloom just one a month. Space your crops 4 weeks apart so you have a baby, a juvie and a prebloomer at all times.


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## westcoast420 (Jan 30, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> What's a dual head heat pump??


It’s a mini split heat pump with 2 heads and one compressor unit. See attached https://www.sogoodtobuy.ca/28000-btu-dual-zone-mini-split-air-conditioner-sena-30hf-d/
You can get mini splits in 1 to 4 head configurations.
@diggs99 if your going to invest good coin in a setup why not get an acmpr licence so you can grow more plants? There’s lots of companies that will get you setup with 150 plus plant licenses.

Sorry to highjack the thread, beauty rooms btw, can tell you’ve got them dialed in.


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## Couch_Lock (Jan 30, 2019)

gr865 said:


> Hell I may be old but I am no dummy!
> This is about 15 days before flipping.
> View attachment 4273259
> 
> ...


What ya runnin this batch, GR? Your grows inspired me to buy CMH's, lol. Was about to buy a Timber 4vs prior to seeing your CMH grows.


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## diggs99 (Jan 30, 2019)

westcoast420 said:


> It’s a mini split heat pump with 2 heads and one compressor unit. See attached https://www.sogoodtobuy.ca/28000-btu-dual-zone-mini-split-air-conditioner-sena-30hf-d/
> You can get mini splits in 1 to 4 head configurations.
> @diggs99 if your going to invest good coin in a setup why not get an acmpr licence so you can grow more plants? There’s lots of companies that will get you setup with 150 plus plant licenses.
> 
> Sorry to highjack the thread, beauty rooms btw, can tell you’ve got them dialed in.


That sounds like it would be fun in theory, but I am in no way good enough or capable of running a garden that size. 

I am still new to all of this. Setting up a room to maximize a 4 plant limit ,I can manage that. setting up a 150 plant grow, not so much lol

I don't mind spending a few grand on lights and a few more on the other stuff I'll need. I can grow big ole trees and have enough weed to always keep us going. That would be good for now.

Would love to be able to do what you suggest, maybe one day. But I am a very long way away from that type of venture.

Sorry for the hijack renfro. Your help and information was very helpful and I thank you very much


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## Renfro (Jan 30, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> If you want to grow big plants you need time to let them grow.
> 
> If you're serious about 4 plants, do a perpetual grow and bloom just one a month. Space your crops 4 weeks apart so you have a baby, a juvie and a prebloomer at all times.


Another good thing about this is one could setup a trellis rig for each plant and that gives more side canopy area and more room for side lights. Basically two more sides to get yield from.

Downside is you never have an empty room that you can really sterilize.


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## gr865 (Jan 30, 2019)

Couch_Lock said:


> What ya runnin this batch, GR? Your grows inspired me to buy CMH's, lol. Was about to buy a Timber 4vs prior to seeing your CMH grows.


I think you will like the 315's.
Just harvested 5 Big Buddha Cheese grown vertical, 1 plus g/w, 23 plus zips of smokable buds.
Built an EZ Cloner, 34 sites and got 33 of the 34 to take root. About to flip 24 of them in a SOG.
This pic was taken on day 8 after being put in the coco pots, expect to start flower within the next 5 days.
 

First time I have attempted this style of grow, one gallon smart pots with individual 2 g/h drip heads split. Pic of the drip system.
 

Nothing as fancy as Renfro's, his is a work of art.


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## Renfro (Jan 30, 2019)

gr865 said:


> Nothing as fancy as Renfro's, his is a work of art.


Looks great, everyone has to start somewhere.

My first grow was a small closet with a 400 watt HPS. Nothing fancy at all but it provided.


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## gr865 (Jan 30, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Looks great, everyone has to start somewhere.
> 
> My first grow was a small closet with a 400 watt HPS. Nothing fancy at all but it provided.


Yeah, we progress. My first indoor was in a DIY 48 x 30 cabinet in the garage. No climate control, drew air from a closet in the house, under a SS 400 LED.


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## Renfro (Jan 30, 2019)

So a side note, I had to take one of my dogs in today to have surgery for a torn ACL. They are going to do a TPLO to fix his knee. Poor fella. Everyone wish him the best. Appreciate it!


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## ttystikk (Jan 30, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Another good thing about this is one could setup a trellis rig for each plant and that gives more side canopy area and more room for side lights. Basically two more sides to get yield from.
> 
> Downside is you never have an empty room that you can really sterilize.


Not true. You can sterilize by moving one plant out.

Powdery mildew is best controlled with environment rather than chemicals. Molds, same. Spidermites need to be controlled through eradication and making sure no one gets near the plants after they've been outside in the yard- pets included!


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## ttystikk (Jan 30, 2019)

westcoast420 said:


> if your going to invest good coin in a setup why not get an acmpr licence so you can grow more plants?


What's this acmpr license and where does it apply?

With a count like that and 150m² I could run a kilo a day, easy.


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## Renfro (Jan 30, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Not true. You can sterilize by moving one plant out.
> 
> Powdery mildew is best controlled with environment rather than chemicals. Molds, same. Spidermites need to be controlled through eradication and making sure no one gets near the plants after they've been outside in the yard- pets included!


cant move a trellised massive plant. I also like to have all the plants in a room the same strain and on the same schedule, one nutrient tank to mix. easy peasy. I see no advantage to having them spaced out except harvest is easier but your doing it more often. Everyone has their way that works form them.


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## Renfro (Jan 30, 2019)

Also watering schedule is pretty much the same with same strain same age. Saves a lot of hassle.


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## ttystikk (Jan 30, 2019)

gr865 said:


> I think you will like the 315's.
> Just harvested 5 Big Buddha Cheese grown vertical, 1 plus g/w, 23 plus zips of smokable buds.
> Built an EZ Cloner, 34 sites and got 33 of the 34 to take root. About to flip 24 of them in a SOG.
> This pic was taken on day 8 after being put in the coco pots, expect to start flower within the next 5 days.
> ...


Dude, nothing wrong with that setup!


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## ttystikk (Jan 30, 2019)

Renfro said:


> cant move a trellised massive plant. I also like to have all the plants in a room the same strain and on the same schedule, one nutrient tank to mix. easy peasy. I see no advantage to having them spaced out except harvest is easier but your doing it more often. Everyone has their way that works form them.


Bullshit, I used to do it all the time!


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## Renfro (Jan 30, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Bullshit, I used to do it all the time!


Take a closer look at my trellis rigs. 5 feet tall and bolted to the floor.


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## Renfro (Jan 30, 2019)

I suppose if everything was bolted to a pallet, one could drag it around with a pallet jack.


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## thenasty1 (Jan 30, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I suppose if everything was bolted to a pallet, one could drag it around with a pallet jack.


or on casters
either way, not practical in a limited square footage environment with giant plants


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## ttystikk (Jan 30, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Take a closer look at my trellis rigs. 5 feet tall and bolted to the floor.


Mine were 4' wide by 6' tall and were hung from the ceiling on hooks screwed into the rafters.

One person would hold the bottom and lift the rootball out of the tubsite and place it in a 5 gallon bucket to avoid damaging the roots. He'd hold the bucket handle and trellis panel with one hand and use the other for guidance. The second person would get the top of the panel, again using one hand to hold it and the other to guide it.

We could thus carry 6' tall fully grown plants anywhere- through doors, around corners, up stairs, even into the back of a pickup to travel anywhere. Because the panel was flat and the plants were trained and clipped to it, it was easy to do. Your trellises are different in that they aren't flat.

We did this every dozen days for years, it wasn't hard and in fact boosted productivity substantially.


In this image, she's two steps up a ladder to reach the top of the plant for training and fan leaf removal. The tubs were 15" tall and the trellis went from there to the ceiling.


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## westcoast420 (Jan 31, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> What's this acmpr license and where does it apply?
> 
> With a count like that and 150m² I could run a kilo a day, easy.


Its the medical cannabis program in Canada


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## ttystikk (Jan 31, 2019)

westcoast420 said:


> Its the medical cannabis program in Canada


I was born in Alberta. My folks are retiring in BC. I'm seriously considering doing the same in a few years. This country has gone fucking batshit crazy.


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## Renfro (Jan 31, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> ... This country has gone fucking batshit crazy.


Boy howdy! You ever seen the movie Idiocracy??? lol yeah that shit!


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## Renfro (Jan 31, 2019)

Got my 10k DE MH bulbs today. Can't wait to see how they do on the last 10-14 days. Probably do 10 days in one room and 14 in the other to compare.


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## diggs99 (Jan 31, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Got my 10k DE MH bulbs today. Can't wait to see how they do on the last 10-14 days. Probably do 10 days in one room and 14 in the other to compare.


So the idea is by switching to MH for last 10-14 days you will increase resin production?


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## Renfro (Jan 31, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> So the idea is by switching to MH for last 10-14 days you will increase resin production?


Thats the theory. I will probably do it for the last 7 to 10 days actually.

Let the HPS get the yield and when finishing bump up the resin with UV.

They call them finishing bulbs because of the extra levels of UV output.


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## diggs99 (Jan 31, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Thats the theory. I will probably do it for the last 7 to 10 days actually.
> 
> Let the HPS get the yield and when finishing bump up the resin with UV.
> 
> They call them finishing bulbs because of the extra levels of UV output.


Cool, i read an article the other day regarding this topic. Same article claimed having MH in with your hps during late flower was also beneficial. 

atleast thats how i understood it lol

I hope the bulbs work out for ya, will be cool to see the end result.


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## Renfro (Jan 31, 2019)

So I ordered a couple Nanolux 1000w DE CMH lights with 3100k bulbs to try on a row in the next run. I hope they yield as good or better with less heat output. If they actually out yield the DE HPS I will probably move all my overhead lights over to CMH.


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## gr865 (Jan 31, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So I ordered a couple Nanolux 1000w DE CMH lights with 3100k bulbs to try on a row in the next run. I hope they yield as good or better with less heat output. If they actually out yield the DE HPS I will probably move all my overhead lights over to CMH.


Been using Nanolux for the past 6 or seven grows and love them. No problems.


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## Renfro (Jan 31, 2019)

gr865 said:


> Been using Nanolux for the past 6 or seven grows and love them. No problems.


Thats good to hear. I had a LOT of failures on their DE HPS ballasts.


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## Renfro (Jan 31, 2019)

gr865 said:


> Been using Nanolux for the past 6 or seven grows and love them. No problems.


Hey, do the ballasts separate from the reflector like the HPS ones so I can use them remote?


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## tangerinegreen555 (Jan 31, 2019)

That's a very fucking impressive set up you have there.

I wish I could try that without fear of a SWAT team showing up. We're a little ass backwards with weed laws south of the border down here. Fabulous thread.


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## thenasty1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So I ordered a couple Nanolux 1000w DE CMH lights with 3100k bulbs to try on a row in the next run. I hope they yield as good or better with less heat output. If they actually out yield the DE HPS I will probably move all my overhead lights over to CMH.


been thinking about doing the same. seems like places have trouble keeping them in stock. every time i go to order some, i can only find ballasts but no bulbs or vice versa. where did you order from?


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## Renfro (Feb 1, 2019)

thenasty1 said:


> been thinking about doing the same. seems like places have trouble keeping them in stock. every time i go to order some, i can only find ballasts but no bulbs or vice versa. where did you order from?


hydrobuilder

they only wanna sell them in packs... so you gotta get a couple ballasts or a 4 pack of bulbs


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## thenasty1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Renfro said:


> hydrobuilder
> 
> they only wanna sell them in packs... so you gotta get a couple ballasts or a 4 pack of bulbs


that sucks, i dont want to swap out half a room of lights without testing them first. 
looks like ill be pulling up a chair for your test run


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## Renfro (Feb 1, 2019)

thenasty1 said:


> that sucks, i dont want to swap out half a room of lights without testing them first.
> looks like ill be pulling up a chair for your test run


I hear ya, I didn't wanna have to buy 4 bulbs for 2 lights but I guess I'll have some spares...

Trying to figure out if I wanna test the new lights in the middle row or a side row.


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## thenasty1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I hear ya, I didn't wanna have to buy 4 bulbs for 2 lights but I guess I'll have some spares...
> 
> Trying to figure out if I wanna test the new lights in the middle row or a side row.


my 2 cents- run them on the side. theres going to be some spillover no matter what, but to get the best cmh to hps comparison without running in separate rooms, i would keep both as isolated as i could


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## ttystikk (Feb 1, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Boy howdy! You ever seen the movie Idiocracy??? lol yeah that shit!


If Trump wins a second term, we'll see black shirts and Krystalnacht all over again.


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## TheHarvester (Feb 4, 2019)

Beautiful setup.

It's all about the veg time with yield, can't stress that enough. leaf nodes=buds.

I'm curious about your cloning technique. Have they initiated flowering when you cut them?? That with a veg that long and cutting that late I have to assume they are. 

I know revegging makes for a fast growing spindly plant for sure.


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## Renfro (Feb 4, 2019)

TheHarvester said:


> Beautiful setup.
> 
> It's all about the veg time with yield, can't stress that enough. leaf nodes=buds.
> 
> ...


They have nice little pea sized nugs on the tops when I cut them, they get a little larger while rooting and then they bust out a lot of branching. It helps me slow them down too so they don't get too large before I can move them into the flowering rooms.


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## Renfro (Feb 4, 2019)

Day 55 update:

Plants are ripening, fan leaves are giving up their nitrogen to make buds. I plan to put in the 10k bulbs in room B tonite while it's dark.

   

Also a pic of my girls Do-Si-Do plant in a 5 gallon bucket on a dolly. Not bad for a mobile plant that's not directly under a light.


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## YouGrowYourWay (Feb 4, 2019)

Absolutely amazing! I wish I could just chill in one of your rooms lol them lovely ladies! Your girls looks incredible I can't wait to see their rootballs


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## Renfro (Feb 4, 2019)

YouGrowYourWay said:


> Absolutely amazing! I wish I could just chill in one of your rooms lol them lovely ladies! Your girls looks incredible I can't wait to see their rootballs


Just a 10 gallon shaped ball of dirt and roots. They get dumped right out of the buckets into my truck bed and driven to a buddies country place where he tills them into his garden area each fall.


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## YouGrowYourWay (Feb 4, 2019)

That's awesome actually way to recycle!


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## Pa-Nature (Feb 4, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Just a 10 gallon shaped ball of dirt and roots. They get dumped right out of the buckets into my truck bed and driven to a buddies country place where he tills them into his garden area each fall.


 I use mine to build up around the Golf green and front lawn , Now I have new land I know where its going Next


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## ttystikk (Feb 5, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Day 55 update:
> 
> Plants are ripening, fan leaves are giving up their nitrogen to make buds. I plan to put in the 10k bulbs in room B tonite while it's dark.
> 
> ...


My best from a 5 gallon bucket is 28oz of finished meds. I'm interested to see how that one does. It's pretty!


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## Mellow old School (Feb 5, 2019)

Thumbs up...


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## smokebros (Feb 5, 2019)

Been lurkin for a while. Such a good looking setup and a wealth of knowledge in this thread,


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 5, 2019)

Good job man!


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## Renfro (Feb 7, 2019)

So I got my nanolux 1kW DE CMH lights in today. I'm pleased that I will be able to use my existing reflectors (from Nanolux 1kW DE HPS). All I have to do to switch out at will is change a bulb and plug it in to the proper ballast.

  

On a side note, my 10k bulbs don't seem to like my Phantom DE ballasts (room B has all Phantom ballasts). One will go out here and there at random, I have to unplug the ballast and plug it back in to restrike. grrr... makes me keep checking on them. Will report how they do with the Nanolux and Sunsystem ballasts when I load them in Room A.


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## Renfro (Feb 7, 2019)

OMG had to share this pic of one of my puppies after digging in the yard! lol


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## diggs99 (Feb 7, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So I got my nanolux 1kW DE CMH lights in today. I'm pleased that I will be able to use my existing reflectors (from Nanolux 1kW DE HPS). All I have to do to switch out at will is change a bulb and plug it in to the proper ballast.
> 
> View attachment 4278202 View attachment 4278203
> 
> On a side note, my 10k bulbs don't seem to like my Phantom DE ballasts (room B has all Phantom ballasts). One will go out here and there at random, I have to unplug the ballast and plug it back in to restrike. grrr... makes me keep checking on them. Will report how they do with the Nanolux and Sunsystem ballasts when I load them in Room A.



What site did you order the 1k de cmh from?

I was looking at the 1k nanolux on growershouse, it dont look like yours tho

https://growershouse.com/nanolux-1000w-ceramic-metal-halide-cmh-fixture-3k-4k

Is this the same as your?


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## Renfro (Feb 7, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> What site did you order the 1k de cmh from?
> 
> I was looking at the 1k nanolux on growershouse, it dont look like yours tho
> 
> ...


Thats the same light I have. Mine is just apart in the box, you can either hook the ballast right to the reflector or locate it remotely using an extension.

I ordered from hydrobuilder

https://hydrobuilder.com/nanolux-1000-watt-double-ended-cmh-commercial-grow-light-fixture.html?opts=eyJhdHRyaWJ1dGU4OTUiOiI4MzI5In0=


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## Renfro (Feb 7, 2019)

They have a replaceable reflector. They recommend changing the reflector out with the bulb. Honestly I haven't done this, probably should as these have about 3 years on them lol


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## diggs99 (Feb 7, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Thats the same light I have. Mine is just apart in the box, you can either hook the ballast right to the reflector or locate it remotely using an extension.
> 
> I ordered from hydrobuilder
> 
> https://hydrobuilder.com/nanolux-1000-watt-double-ended-cmh-commercial-grow-light-fixture.html?opts=eyJhdHRyaWJ1dGU4OTUiOiI4MzI5In0=


i assume you went with the 3100k ?

Ive looked at this light a few times now, at 473.00 it seems like a real good price.

The more i look into leds the more i realize they cost a small fortune, i even looked into building what i want, but the parts are constantly out of stock and on back order. I love the timbers, but 2k watts of timbers is gonna cost me 3000.00 cad lol, that seems absurd. 2k watts of these nanolux would cost me basically half that.

Im starting to gravitate back towards the CMH


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## Renfro (Feb 7, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> i assume you went with the 3100k ?
> 
> Ive looked at this light a few times now, at 473.00 it seems like a real good price.
> 
> ...


I got the two pack of them for $644 so thats $322 per light sans bulbs and shipping. I got the 3k bulbs.

Thing I don't like about LED's is they are changing so fast. You pay a fortune only to see something better in a few months. I did get a light from cobkits toplay with on the end of a row, see if it's better than a 400w HPS. Still waiting on it to arrive. It should be in play next run.

I really like playing around with new tech and I have the area to do it. If I were building a big commercial grow I would stick with a mix of DE HPS and DE CMH. Maybe in 10 years go to LED.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 7, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I got the two pack of them for $644 so thats $322 per light sans bulbs and shipping. I got the 3k bulbs.
> 
> Thing I don't like about LED's is they are changing so fast. You pay a fortune only to see something better in a few months. I did get a light from cobkits toplay with on the end of a row, see if it's better than a 400w HPS. Still waiting on it to arrive. It should be in play next run.
> 
> I really like playing around with new tech and I have the area to do it. If I were building a big commercial grow I would stick with a mix of DE HPS and DE CMH. Maybe in 10 years go to LED.


2 pack for 644.00? that's freakin awesome, hydrobuilder.com , ill have to go take a look.

I was gonna ask why yours was 170.00 more than the growershouse, you got a great deal for 2 of them.

I agree on the LED, i love the idea of going that route, but the further i looked into them the more my head or wallet hurt lol. DIY was gonna be pretty cost effective, put waiting months for parts just don't interest me at this point.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 7, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> 2 pack for 644.00? that's freakin awesome, hydrobuilder.com , ill have to go take a look.
> 
> I was gonna ask why yours was 170.00 more than the growershouse, you got a great deal for 2 of them.
> 
> I agree on the LED, i love the idea of going that route, but the further i looked into them the more my head or wallet hurt lol. DIY was gonna be pretty cost effective, put waiting months for parts just don't interest me at this point.


Back in my network administrator days we called it "The Bleeding Edge" when you pay a fortune for the latest and greatest tech only to have it drop in price and be replaced by something else in a very short time.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 7, 2019)

ugh hydrobuilder dont ship outside the US


----------



## Renfro (Feb 7, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> ugh hydrobuilder dont ship outside the US


That sucks.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 7, 2019)

https://growershouse.com/gavita-pro-e-series-1000e-de-slim-line-208-240-volt

thoughts on this renfro?

ive heard nothing but good things about gavitas. seems like a good price


----------



## Renfro (Feb 7, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> https://growershouse.com/gavita-pro-e-series-1000e-de-slim-line-208-240-volt
> 
> thoughts on this renfro?
> 
> ive heard nothing but good things about gavitas. seems like a good price


Looks like a great light. I still wonder why they can't mount the ballast so it's horizontal like the nanolux. lol Like seriously, low profile and the damn thing still sticks up.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 7, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Looks like a great light. I still wonder why they can't mount the ballast so it's horizontal like the nanolux. lol Like seriously, low profile and the damn thing still sticks up.


ya i dont quite understand it either, they take pride in calling it their slim line, but lose 2-3 inches of clearance because the ballast is stuck up past the light lol

def interested tho, Gavita seems to be one of the leading brands in grow lights, been around a long time, quality products and have a good rep. I may go this route, buy a couple of these for flowering and use my 600 for the veg room

Nanolux 1k de cmh 473.00 
or 
gavita 1k de hps 289.00


----------



## Renfro (Feb 7, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> ya i dont quite understand it either, they take pride in calling it their slim line, but lose 2-3 inches of clearance because the ballast is stuck up past the light lol
> 
> def interested tho, Gavita seems to be one of the leading brands in grow lights, been around a long time, quality products and have a good rep. I may go this route, buy a couple of these for flowering and use my 600 for the veg room
> 
> ...


Both are good lights. HPS is tried and true, been running HPS for 30 years. Can't go wrong there. Plus gavita has an excellent rep.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 7, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Both are good lights. HPS is tried and true, been running HPS for 30 years. Can't go wrong there. Plus gavita has an excellent rep.


Ya and $/watt hps is still by far the best deal

i can get 2 x the 1k de gavitas for less than 1 x 950w timber

truth be told, i could actually buy 4 of these gavitas for the price of 1 x 950w timber.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 7, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ya and $/watt hps is still by far the best deal
> 
> i can get 2 x the 1k de gavitas for less than 1 x 950w timber
> 
> truth be told, i could actually buy 4 of these gavitas for the price of 1 x 950w timber.


Yeah the LED tech is just way to pricey. Everyone tries to justify it with lower energy usage but I think that is often overstated. Probably take 5 years for any energy savings to pay for the light, and it's obsolete in 6 months.


----------



## Nizza (Feb 7, 2019)

great stuff here awesome big room grow looking good love rotties man rock on!


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## BigHornBuds (Feb 7, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ya and $/watt hps is still by far the best deal
> 
> i can get 2 x the 1k de gavitas for less than 1 x 950w timber
> 
> truth be told, i could actually buy 4 of these gavitas for the price of 1 x 950w timber.





Renfro said:


> Yeah the LED tech is just way to pricey. Everyone tries to justify it with lower energy usage but I think that is often overstated. Probably take 5 years for any energy savings to pay for the light, and it's obsolete in 6 months.


This is what I come to every time I go to buy an LED light.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 7, 2019)

found a nanolux 1000w de cmh on a canadian site for 379.00 but it has no bulb

https://www.canadiangardensupply.com/grow-lights/shades/nanolux-cmh-1000w-fixture.html

renfro know where i can buy bulbs for these lights?


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah the LED tech is just way to pricey. Everyone tries to justify it with lower energy usage but I think that is often overstated. Probably take 5 years for any energy savings to pay for the light, and it's obsolete in 6 months.


IDK man.. Me and one other grower have the same amount of wattage going on, 18,000. And his electric bill is over $2000 a month for just his grow with MH/HPS. My LED's run me around $670ish on a full 31 day cycle of 18/6 and includes my residence as well. I could see how they would pay for themselves pretty quick. No bulb changes, less heat, etc.. everyone has their preference tho.


----------



## Thundercat (Feb 8, 2019)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> IDK man.. Me and one other grower have the same amount of wattage going on, 18,000. And his electric bill is over $2000 a month for just his grow with MH/HPS. My LED's run me around $670ish on a full 31 day cycle of 18/6 and includes my residence as well. I could see how they would pay for themselves pretty quick. No bulb changes, less heat, etc.. everyone has their preference tho.


Do you and your buddy live in the same city? Location has a massive impact on electric costs, obviously making the benefit more or less in certain areas. 

I would have to imagine this is the only explanation. If you are both drawing the same wattage it doesn't matter if its an LED or HPS. 1000 watts power draw at the wall is the same either way.... The claim with LED is you get more light at less wattage so you save money. Personally, when I go to LED it will be just to get more light spread over my canopy more evenly without reducing the wattage.

Are your 18,000 watts actually turned up that high or are they dimmed down........ so your actually running much less wattage?


----------



## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> Do you and your buddy live in the same city? Location has a massive impact on electric costs, obviously making the benefit more or less in certain areas.
> 
> I would have to imagine this is the only explanation. If you are both drawing the same wattage it doesn't matter if its an LED or HPS. 1000 watts power draw at the wall is the same either way.... The claim with LED is you get more light at less wattage so you save money. Personally, when I go to LED it will be just to get more light spread over my canopy more evenly without reducing the wattage.
> 
> Are your 18,000 watts actually turned up that high or are they dimmed down........ so your actually running much less wattage?


Yeah.. let me rephrase that. We are both in the same State, and running 1000w EQUIVALENT. So where he is drawing a true 1000 watts at the wall, Im only drawing 480 watts on my 1000w, and they are on high all the time except for when sprouting seedlings.


----------



## Thundercat (Feb 8, 2019)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> Yeah.. let me rephrase that. We are both in the same State, and running 1000w EQUIVALENT. So where he is drawing a true 1000 watts at the wall, Im only drawing 480 watts on my 1000w, and they are on high all the time except for when sprouting seedlings.


Ok that right there is why you have lower electric costs, your running less then half the amount of wattage..... Lets be honest here now, do you actually pull the same yields in comparable grows?
Because currently it sounds like he has a pretty large 18000 watt grow which should be pulling major yields, making the 2k electric bill just part of the game. I'm not being a dick here at all, just wanting to make sure we are actually discussing any sort of level playing field.

What ppfd are you running at? From everything, I've read over the year, if your under 1500 your leaveing yields on the table and could really use more light.


----------



## BigHornBuds (Feb 8, 2019)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> Yeah.. let me rephrase that. We are both in the same State, and running 1000w EQUIVALENT. So where he is drawing a true 1000 watts at the wall, Im only drawing 480 watts on my 1000w, and they are on high all the time except for when sprouting seedlings.


What where the difference in yield?


----------



## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> Ok that right there is why you have lower electric costs, your running less then half the amount of wattage..... Lets be honest here now, do you actually pull the same yields in comparable grows?
> Because currently it sounds like he has a pretty large 18000 watt grow which should be pulling major yields, making the 2k electric bill just part of the game. I'm not being a dick here at all, just wanting to make sure we are actually discussing any sort of level playing field.
> 
> What ppfd are you running at? From everything, I've read over the year, if your under 1500 your leaveing yields on the table and could really use more light.


Our yields were pretty close. We both ran an average of ~130 grams dried per plant. I dont know about his PAR readings, but mine ran 1100ish towards the end of flower. I never discussed that with him. I dont think he did any topping or super cropping tho, whereas I did.


----------



## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

I can't remember how many plants he had, but we both pulled over 8,800 grams out of each grow with the same 18,000 watts (equivalent).


----------



## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> Yeah.. let me rephrase that. We are both in the same State, and running 1000w EQUIVALENT. So where he is drawing a true 1000 watts at the wall, Im only drawing 480 watts on my 1000w, and they are on high all the time except for when sprouting seedlings.


How much did 18kW worth of LED equivalent cost you? Yeah my bills are about 1700 a month in the winter and about 2000 in the summer, that includes my home.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> I can't remember how many plants he had, but we both pulled over 8,800 grams out of each grow with the same 18,000 watts (equivalent).


I pull a lot more than that out of my grow, two 9kW flowering rooms and I am only using 12 plants. So I can see a possible major yield sacrifice, like about half the yield.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 8, 2019)

If I'm not mistaken Aaron is the guy who bought like 30 of the hlg 550s


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> How much did 18kW worth of LED equivalent cost you? Yeah my bills are about 1700 a month in the winter and about 2000 in the summer, that includes my home.


I think I paid around $14,000 for the18 HLG 550 v2's.... about the yield, this was my first indoor grow, and have started the 2nd round. I did learn a lot of things from you guys for sure, and hope to increase my yield this next run.


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## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> If I'm not mistaken Aaron is the guy who bought like 30 of the hlg 550s


Holy shit thats like 27k in lights.


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Holy shit thats like 27k in lights.


No.. it was 18 lights..$14,000


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Holy shit thats like 27k in lights.


Yep, obv i assume HLG gave him a nice deal and that amount, but still a nice price tag for sure.

I seen his journal, the dude grew a beautiful crop for sure


----------



## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> I think I paid around $14,000 for the18 HLG 550 v2's.... about the yield, this was my first indoor grow, and have started the 2nd round. I did learn a lot of things from you guys for sure, and hope to increase my yield this next run.


Whew! I couldn't afford that at all when I started my grow. I can see why a lot of new commercial growers may go that route though if they have the funds. If you are saving say 900 a month AND not loosing yield then they would pay for themselves in time. But a yield sacrifice of even a few pounds and I am loosing money even accounting for the savings.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 8, 2019)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> No.. it was 18 lights..$14,000


Oh ya sorry, 550s are 1k equivalent obv 18 and not 30 lol


----------



## Thundercat (Feb 8, 2019)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> Our yields were pretty close. We both ran an average of ~130 grams dried per plant. I dont know about his PAR readings, but mine ran 1100ish towards the end of flower. I never discussed that with him. I dont think he did any topping or super cropping tho, whereas I did.


Thats sweet you guys pulled similar weight even with less wattage on your part! Just curious did you guys veg for the same amount of time? Obviously you using training techniques was a good choice on your part. I was very definitely expecting numbers over 10k grams if your buddy is running 18k watts. It sounds like there is a long was to go for him to reach his potential.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 8, 2019)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> I think I paid around $14,000 for the18 HLG 550 v2's.... about the yield, this was my first indoor grow, and have started the 2nd round. I did learn a lot of things from you guys for sure, and hope to increase my yield this next run.



lol you have nothing to be ashamed of, you grew an amazing crop and setup a pretty sick grow space , it will only get better.

That first lot looked great tho


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## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

My position, if you save say 3k in power over a 3 month grow and loose 3 pounds in yield it's a break even. My theory is you gotta spend money to make money and for us that electricity.


----------



## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> lol you have nothing to be ashamed of, you grew an amazing crop and setup a pretty sick grow space , it will only get better.
> 
> That first lot looked great tho


Thanks bud!


----------



## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> lol you have nothing to be ashamed of, you grew an amazing crop and setup a pretty sick grow space , it will only get better.
> 
> That first lot looked great tho


Indeed. Once he gets it totally tuned and such he can do more I am sure.


----------



## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> My position, if you save say 3k in power over a 3 month grow and loose 3 pounds in yield it's a break even. My theory is you gotta spend money to make money and for us that electricity.


That's true!.. For some reason, HLG's made sense as far as efficiently and low maintenance in the long run, so I gave it a go. Oklahoma is hot as hell as it is, so I wanted to run as cool as possible... @Renfro... I did not mean to highjack your beautiful thread dude!


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## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

Where I can really see LED tech being effective is illegal states. There you get much more $ per pound but stealth is much more important and a 2k per month power bill isn't stealthy at all. lol


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## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> That's true!.. For some reason, HLG's made sense as far as efficiently and low maintenance in the long run, so I gave it a go. Oklahoma is hot as hell as it is, so I wanted to run as cool as possible... @Renfro... I did not mean to highjack your beautiful thread dude!


No hijaak, I like discussing this here. All good man. I have a buddy from oklahoma, he and I are setting up a legal medical grow there.


----------



## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Where I can really see LED tech being effective is illegal states. There you get much more $ per pound but stealth is much more important and a 2k per month power bill isn't stealthy at all. lol


Yeah, stealth not important here, we're all legal... but getting in early in this emerging market made sense to spend the money... we've been wholesaling at $3300-$3600 lb.


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> No hijaak, I like discussing this here. All good man. I have a buddy from oklahoma, he and I are setting up a legal medical grow there.


AWESOME!
These prices are going to drop like a rock after people get thier 2nd and 3rd grows on the market.


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## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> Yeah, stealth not important here, we're all legal... but getting in early in this emerging market made sense to spend the money... we've been wholesaling at $3300-$3600 lb.


Sweet, thats totally tits! I miss the days of 5k per pound wholesale. lol Get that money while it's there, in Colorado the price dropped fast after the big greenhouse grows came online.


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## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> AWESOME!
> These prices are going to drop like a rock after people get thier 2nd and 3rd grows on the market.


Yeah we are building towards blackout shaded greenhouses with supplemental lighting, thats the biggest power savings, sunlight. We will be using CMH and HPS blend for supplemental.


----------



## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Sweet, thats totally tits! I miss the days of 5k per pound wholesale. lol Get that money while it's there, in Colorado the price dropped fast after the big greenhouse grows came online.


Yes sir!... I feel like it will settle in the $1200 range within the year. We made enough to cover our $55,000 investment on the first run, so now it will be like a hobby/ extra income.


----------



## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah we are building towards blackout shaded greenhouses with supplemental lighting, thats the biggest power savings, sunlight. We will be using CMH and HPS blend for supplemental.


Yeah, these big commercial guys are already elbowing in from out of State... They'll take over and push us small ops out of the way.. We'll still put a quality craft bud on the market tho.


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## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

The only grows really making money now in Colorado are the ones that use greenhouses. They don't have the utility cost that the indoor growers have. They drove the price way down and own a large piece of the market now.


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> The only grows really making money now in Colorado are the ones that use greenhouses. They don't have the utility cost that the indoor growers have. They drove the price way down and own a large piece of the market now.


Yep!.. same thing is going to happen here. I've almost come to the conclusion that selling fresh frozen to processors can be just as profitable without the pain in the ass of wet trimming, drying and curing. I hate wet trimming. I do like watching the dry buds go though the Twister T4 tho. Prob the most entertaining part of it. LOL!


----------



## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

Id take your profit from the first year, build greenhouse space, use the lights for your supplemental and keep on keeping on.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> Yep!.. same thing is going to happen here. I've almost come to the conclusion that selling fresh frozen to processors can be just as profitable without the pain in the ass of wet trimming, drying and curing. I hate wet trimming. I do like watching the dry buds go though the Twister T4 tho. Prob the most entertaining part of it. LOL!


Well I may be buying from you, we are going to be processors and growers. We passed on the retail part, fuck that shit, customers are dumb.


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well I may be buying from you, we are going to be processors and growers. We passed on the retail part, fuck that shit, customers are dumb.


We've figured that out about adding on. And yeah, Im already sick of the retail end. Dispensaries bitching about high prices in a new market, and customers bitching because they found 1 seed in an eighth. (we had a few stealth hermies), but got them out just in the nick of time.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

The crappy part of this business, you can't deduct overhead on your federal taxes. UGGHHH... One guy won a case in court where they went at him for tax evasion. He only won the right to deduct his purchase of product to sell. But he still had to pay taxes on all that other overhead like building, power, employees....


----------



## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> The crappy part of this business, you can't deduct overhead on your federal taxes. UGGHHH... One guy won a case in court where they went at him for tax evasion. He only won the right to deduct his purchase of product to sell. But he still had to pay taxes on all that other overhead like building, power, employees....


Right on.... we can't deduct anything except for cost of goods sold.


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

.... and I dont even know what all that is. We have a CPA that figures all that shit out.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

Yeah your CPA and a good attorney on retainer are the best purchases one can make.


----------



## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

Yeah... the guy is pretty cheap.. Like $3600 a year.


----------



## DoubleAtotheRON (Feb 8, 2019)

Good chatting with you Renfro!... I gotta go tend to some baby girls. Grow on my friend! Later!


----------



## thumper60 (Feb 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> The crappy part of this business, you can't deduct overhead on your federal taxes. UGGHHH... One guy won a case in court where they went at him for tax evasion. He only won the right to deduct his purchase of product to sell. But he still had to pay taxes on all that other overhead like building, power, employees....


DURR!!!


----------



## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

On another note:

My 10k bulbs seem to be doing their magic. Looking at the side buds (HPS) compared to the ones that get the overhead light, there is a noticeable difference in the amount of trichomes.

Also notice that my vertical 315 CMH area (sides between two rows) seems to be extra frosty too. Liking the CMH.

So, I am gonna take the two 1kW CMH lights that came in and pop them in room A when it flips in a few minutes.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

So, the 1kW Nanolux DE CMH doesn't like running with the ballast mounted remotely. Nothing, nada. 

Changing the bulbs out in room A to the 10k. Gonna pack up the 1kW CMH and try to send them back.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So, the 1kW Nanolux DE CMH doesn't like running with the ballast mounted remotely. Nothing, nada.
> 
> Changing the bulbs out in room A to the 10k. Gonna pack up the 1kW CMH and try to send them back.



Ugh that sucks , was hoping to see you run those for a bit.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ugh that sucks , was hoping to see you run those for a bit.


yeah, im kinda pissed off about it. like who wants to change a dead ballast when it's above the plants. gay


----------



## thenasty1 (Feb 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> yeah, im kinda pissed off about it. like who wants to change a dead ballast when it's above the plants. gay


i would be too. you would think the de manufacturers would have caught on to this by now. is it possible you just got a lemon?


----------



## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

thenasty1 said:


> i would be too. you would think the de manufacturers would have caught on to this by now. is it possible you just got a lemon?


I doubt it's a lemon, I tried two bulbs and two ballasts. I have yet to try them with the ballast connected to the reflector.

Likely it's the extension. Thats all I can figure. Some HPS ballasts even wont strike the arc when using an extension but they pretty much worked that out with the newer stuff. FWIW the nanolux de 1kW HPS will run with the extension.

If they won't take them back I may just put them in VEG. Still sucks though as my setup won't allow me to run the ballast above the plants, I just can't change it out if it dies. I can barely change a bulb LoL I have to set a 2x12 across the trellis rig and sit on that to change a bulb out.


----------



## thenasty1 (Feb 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Still sucks though as my setup won't allow me to run the ballast above the plants, I just can't change it out if it dies. I can barely change a bulb LoL I have to set a 2x12 across the trellis rig and sit on that to change a bulb out.


im right there with you on the low ceiling+de struggle. ive read stuff about loss of efficiency/output when running extensions, but ive never had any de hps/mh fail to fire when running remote. im surprised these cmh are doing you like that, especially considering their price tag+reasonably reputable manufacturer. that sucks man, i hope they make it right for you with minimal hassle


----------



## Renfro (Feb 8, 2019)

Day 59 Update: Things are looking good. I put the 10k MH bulbs in room A.


----------



## BigHornBuds (Feb 9, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So, the 1kW Nanolux DE CMH doesn't like running with the ballast mounted remotely. Nothing, nada.
> 
> Changing the bulbs out in room A to the 10k. Gonna pack up the 1kW CMH and try to send them back.


I asked a guy who owns a hydro store about getting an extension so I could run my DEs remotely. 
He said the farther the current has to travel from the ballast to bulb the more wear it put on the wire n bulb, n can blow the bulbs, or cook the wire . Said it wasn’t a good idea. 
I left it at that, n didn’t look into it anymore. 

Maybe the Nano has a safety in it .


----------



## Renfro (Feb 9, 2019)

BigHornBuds said:


> I asked a guy who owns a hydro store about getting an extension so I could run my DEs remotely.
> He said the farther the current has to travel from the ballast to bulb the more wear it put on the wire n bulb, n can blow the bulbs, or cook the wire . Said it wasn’t a good idea.
> I left it at that, n didn’t look into it anymore.
> 
> Maybe the Nano has a safety in it .


Honestly as a former electrician that just sounds like he was making shit up. lol

I think it's just unable to strike an arc with the added resistance. Like some of the older SE HPS ballasts used to be.

Either way, the lights are a no go for me.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 9, 2019)

Hey renfro

how does this light compare to the nanolux?

this sunsystem dimmable 945w is 339.00 and comes with a bulb

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07BHKF7HW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A2ZJA9UUKY06RO&psc=1

the vivosun 315 is 199+110 for the phillips bulb

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07J5WQQGJ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2PQGFJXAT8J9K&psc=1



almost seems to good to be true, less than .30/w for de cmh lighting seems very cheap dosent it?


----------



## Renfro (Feb 9, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Hey renfro
> 
> how does this light compare to the nanolux?
> 
> ...


I have no experience with either manufacturer so I don't have much to say. I'm still pretty new to the CMH lighting.


----------



## dr.tomb (Feb 9, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Hey renfro
> 
> how does this light compare to the nanolux?
> 
> ...


Yonk... I was already looking at buying those last 2 in stock... You made me bite the bullet and buy them, because I need them for my next run to test out. Didnt want to order them until Monday so they would arrive Thursday instead of Wednesday. I can let you know if you want. They will be on my next run inside my tent. 4x8 with two 945w cmh. I've been talking to Sunstream about the bulbs. It sounded like 4k bulbs, but they clarified through email that it was 3k bulbs.


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## diggs99 (Feb 9, 2019)

dr.tomb said:


> Yonk... I was already looking at buying those last 2 in stock... You made me bite the bullet and buy them, because I need them for my next run to test out. Didnt want to order them until Monday so they would arrive Thursday instead of Wednesday. I can let you know if you want. They will be on my next run inside my tent. 4x8 with two 945w cmh. I've been talking to Sunstream about the bulbs. It sounded like 4k bulbs, but they clarified through email that it was 3k bulbs.



Ya for sure man, let me know. Altho ill prob end up buying something sooner rather than later.

They are back showing in stock again now when i try to order, honestly at that price, i may try one out.


----------



## Purpsmagurps (Feb 10, 2019)

so you flip back to 10k the last week for trichomes?


----------



## Renfro (Feb 10, 2019)

Purpsmagurps said:


> so you flip back to 10k the last week for trichomes?


Yes. UV light baby! It's the shit!

Get your yields with HPS, then switch to 10k MH for the finish.

Id imagine with CMH this wouldn't be required as it has lots of UV.


----------



## bottletoke (Feb 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So, the 1kW Nanolux DE CMH doesn't like running with the ballast mounted remotely. Nothing, nada.
> 
> Changing the bulbs out in room A to the 10k. Gonna pack up the 1kW CMH and try to send them back.


You need to replace the ignitor with a long range ignitor or try increasing the wire gauge in your extension, increasing the wire gauge solves it most of the time.


----------



## bottletoke (Feb 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So, the 1kW Nanolux DE CMH doesn't like running with the ballast mounted remotely. Nothing, nada.
> 
> Changing the bulbs out in room A to the 10k. Gonna pack up the 1kW CMH and try to send them back.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ideadigitalcontent.com/files/10982/07_HID_Atlas2016_Igntors.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj19JSml7LgAhVOGjQIHecLA48QFjAKegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw3cVkOpKNsLq7GLw49fRhyy&cshid=1549836676659


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## Renfro (Feb 10, 2019)

bottletoke said:


> You need to replace the ignitor with a long range ignitor or try increasing the wire gauge in your extension, increasing the wire gauge solves it most of the time.


They are digital ballasts so the ignitor isn't an option.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 10, 2019)

I may try a larger gauge wire, right now my back is fucked so it will have to wait.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 10, 2019)

dr.tomb said:


> Yonk... I was already looking at buying those last 2 in stock... You made me bite the bullet and buy them, because I need them for my next run to test out. Didnt want to order them until Monday so they would arrive Thursday instead of Wednesday. I can let you know if you want. They will be on my next run inside my tent. 4x8 with two 945w cmh. I've been talking to Sunstream about the bulbs. It sounded like 4k bulbs, but they clarified through email that it was 3k bulbs.



i have no clue about this website but wanted to pass this on to you, just in case you hadn't ordered yet.

http://www.shutyourmouth.ca/growing-light-fixtures-bt-28_35/sunstream-945-watt-ceramic-metal-halide-cmh-double-ended-grow-system-with-bulb-b07bhkf7hw-ot-4875.html

they were the first search that popped up when i typed 945w sunstream cmh


----------



## Nizza (Feb 10, 2019)

looking good man. can u take some pictures without any HID's on?? i would love to see the late flowering colors on those massive buds!


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## Renfro (Feb 10, 2019)

Nizza said:


> looking good man. can u take some pictures without any HID's on?? i would love to see the late flowering colors on those massive buds!


probably at harvest. I don't fuck with my lights during a run. will for sure get some at harvest. seeing a little purple on the sugar leaves.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 10, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> i have no clue about this website but wanted to pass this on to you, just in case you hadn't ordered yet.
> 
> http://www.shutyourmouth.ca/growing-light-fixtures-bt-28_35/sunstream-945-watt-ceramic-metal-halide-cmh-double-ended-grow-system-with-bulb-b07bhkf7hw-ot-4875.html
> 
> they were the first search that popped up when i typed 945w sunstream cmh


Gawd damn, thats a hella good price. Wonder why so cheap?


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Gawd damn, thats a hella good price. Wonder why so cheap?


They have the nanolux 1000 de for 169.99 cad aswell

Seems to good to be true right?

I'm scouring the net trying to find anything on this company. They were top search when I typed in sunsystem 945


----------



## Renfro (Feb 10, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> They have the nanolux 1000 de for 169.99 cad aswell
> 
> Seems to good to be true right?
> 
> I'm scouring the net trying to find anything on this company. They were top search when I typed in sunsystem 945


Yeah that seems like a wholesale price.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah that seems like a wholesale price.


I know right?

I'm such a skeptic when I see prices way outside the norm, im the guy that waits and waits to find info on the site and misses the deal lol

Can't really find much about the company which is concerning but never found anything negative either, so there's that


----------



## Renfro (Feb 10, 2019)

Yeah the URL itself makes me mistrust. lol shutyourmouth . ca haha


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 10, 2019)

lol i know

i laughed when i first seen it. but wasnt laughing when i seen the prices on their cmh and realized i was gonna have to look into the site a bit more.

was hoping they would accept paypal, but they only accept visa/mastercard.


Am considering ordering 1 just to see if its real lol. 144.00 might be worth the risk


----------



## Renfro (Feb 10, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> lol i know
> 
> i laughed when i first seen it. but wasnt laughing when i seen the prices on their cmh and realized i was gonna have to look into the site a bit more.
> 
> ...


Sure seems sketch to me.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 10, 2019)

Ya i agree, gonna refrain until i find some credible info on them

Amazon is showing them back in stock again, so ill prob just order from them.

Wondering, 8x6 space, would i be better off with a single 945w or 3x the 315s? coverage i can see the 315s doing better, but i assume they wont compete with the 945 for penetration.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 10, 2019)

Id go with the 315's probably or some 630's


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## diggs99 (Feb 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Id go with the 315's probably or some 630's


Ya really tho, 2 x 630s might fit the best for this space and will be big enough for my new room when its built, not sure how much i like the dual bulbs tho, really wish they came in a DE. I have not seen any 630 de in m travels


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## diggs99 (Feb 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Id go with the 315's probably or some 630's


i ordered 3 x the 315s 

2 x 3100k
1 x 4200k
philips bulbs

flip flopped so many times this past couple weeks regarding lights, glad to make a decision. If they prove to be good, i will fill the new room with all cmh


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## Renfro (Feb 10, 2019)

You can get 600 CMH DE.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> You can get 600 CMH DE.


ya i just seen illuminar on growerschoice was a 630 de cmh

never heard that name before tho.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 10, 2019)

I think Cultilux makes some bad ass bulbs for them. Lots of UV.


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## Renfro (Feb 10, 2019)

I may give the cultilux a shot sometime. They say with a splitter you can run 2 of their 600's with a 1000 watt ballast cranked to 1150w. They say to use a low frequency ballast. Gotta look into this more.

http://www.cultilux.com/600w-de-cmh.html


----------



## beacher (Feb 10, 2019)

Wow, really nice show man! I see you said you used to run DWC, have you ever tried Krusty buckets or hempy buckets? 

Also, whats that trellis material over the plants? Is it snow fence or something?

Great grow, looking forward to seeing the harvest!


----------



## SmokinDogCujo (Feb 10, 2019)

Awesome work Renfro! You get the most out of your plant count!


----------



## Renfro (Feb 11, 2019)

beacher said:


> Wow, really nice show man! I see you said you used to run DWC, have you ever tried Krusty buckets or hempy buckets?
> 
> Also, whats that trellis material over the plants? Is it snow fence or something?
> 
> Great grow, looking forward to seeing the harvest!


When I did DWC I used some large totes. I remember Krusty from back on OG in the early 2000's.

The material is a plastic trellis with 6 inch squares, the brand I use is called Hortitrellis. There are other brands, just avoid the ones that are made of string, they sag and stretch too much plus shed fibers into the buds.


----------



## beacher (Feb 11, 2019)

Awesome, thanks bro. Keep it up!


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## Renfro (Feb 14, 2019)

So I got my LED light from @CobKits today.

 

Gonna use it in the 2x4 tent I am going to order for breeding.

My girls Do-Si-Do plant is going to get chopped tonight. Rolled it out of the flowering room before lights out. Mostly cloudy / milky with about 5% amber trichomes.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 14, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So I got my LED light from @CobKits today.
> 
> View attachment 4282675
> 
> ...



Jeez your girls plant is a real beast, should yield real nice

What are the details on the light?


----------



## Renfro (Feb 14, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> What are the details on the light?


Thats a good question! lol I am pretty sure, @CobKits can correct me, 8 x Luminous CXM22 3500K 90CRI cobs, Meanwell HLG-240H-54B drivers. I had cobby put it all together for me.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 14, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Thats a good question! lol I am pretty sure, @CobKits can correct me, 8 x Luminous CXM22 3500K 90CRI cobs, Meanwell HLG-240H-54B drivers. I had cobby put it all together for me.


What's it drawing from the wall?

Looks like a nice light. 

What's your plan for that light in your setup?


----------



## Renfro (Feb 14, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> What's it drawing from the wall?
> 
> Looks like a nice light.
> 
> What's your plan for that light in your setup?


No clue what the actual draw is, perhaps cobby can tell us.

I had originally planned to put the light on the end of one of my rows, to see how it did compared to the 400 watt HPS. However, I am ordering a 2x4 tent to put in an unused space in my veg room, I'll probably put the light in there. I will use the tent for breeding and testing the resulting seeds. It will be my play area. lol


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 14, 2019)

Renfro said:


> No clue what the actual draw is, perhaps cobby can tell us.
> 
> I had originally planned to put the light on the end of one of my rows, to see how it did compared to the 400 watt HPS. However, I am ordering a 2x4 tent to put in an unused space in my veg room, I'll probably put the light in there. I will use the tent for breeding and testing the resulting seeds. It will be my play area. lol


Everyone needs a play area lol

How long you have left on this run? They must be getting close.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 14, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> How long you have left on this run? They must be getting close.


At day 65 now, lots of milky trichomes, she usually goes down in about 70 days of 12/12. Chop will likely start in about 5 days and usually takes about 5 days to get it all chopped, into bread trays and in the drying room.

My girl has a friend thats going to make her a care giver so that will give us extra plants to do the breeding project. I want to cross a Kandy Kush and a Gorilla Glue. The Kandy Kush is such a huge yielder, dank ass smoke, lemony, piney with an added gassy punch as she finishes. She likes to get big and thats one thing I require in my setup. We all know the glue is a dank plant. Kandy actually yielded better for me when I grew her. I hope the cut I have of her is as good as the one I had a few years back. I have a buddy thats testing it now, and I have a test plant in a small pot that I will set in there next run.

I also wanna see what a Star Dawg and Purple Punch cross would do.

I have a friend thats giving me a wedding cake cut too. So I will have some different strains to mess with and breed. Should be a lot of fun. My girl loves to grow and I'd say she's pretty good at it. She did her plants all by herself this run, all she did was ask me to tell her what nutrient mix to use. Her plants could have done even better if they had more light. This is only her second run and her first with 2 bigger plants in the rolling 5 gallon bucket setup. It's nice to have a lady that loves weed and likes growing as much as I do. I told her about the tent breeding project and she lit up.


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## YouGrowYourWay (Feb 14, 2019)

Can't wait for the breeding project!


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 14, 2019)

Renfro said:


> At day 65 now, lots of milky trichomes, she usually goes down in about 70 days of 12/12. Chop will likely start in about 5 days and usually takes about 5 days to get it all chopped, into bread trays and in the drying room.
> 
> My girl has a friend thats going to make her a care giver so that will give us extra plants to do the breeding project. I want to cross a Kandy Kush and a Gorilla Glue. The Kandy Kush is such a huge yielder, dank ass smoke, lemony, piney with an added gassy punch as she finishes. She likes to get big and thats one thing I require in my setup. We all know the glue is a dank plant. Kandy actually yielded better for me when I grew her. I hope the cut I have of her is as good as the one I had a few years back. I have a buddy thats testing it now, and I have a test plant in a small pot that I will set in there next run.
> 
> ...



Nice, you got some legit plans ahead

Some of those strains and crosses will be absolute fire.

I was looking at buying some wedding cake seeds , have heard nothing but good stuff about it.

Your girl def has a green thumb, thats a nice freakin plant. Im slowly getting my wife involved, baby steps lol


----------



## New Age United (Feb 14, 2019)

Renfro said:


> These started 12/12 on 12/11/18 so they are about 23 days into flowering. Another 47ish to go.
> 
> Strain is Gorilla Glue #4. With this strain I manage 42 to 48 pounds.
> 
> ...


Subbed, you're crazy man.


----------



## swedsteven (Feb 14, 2019)

Cant wait to see those monster again before harvest @mmmmmmmm


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## myke (Feb 15, 2019)

Looks great,any special feeding these last two weeks?


----------



## Renfro (Feb 15, 2019)

myke said:


> Looks great,any special feeding these last two weeks?


Just tapering off the PPM is all. No PK boosters of anything.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Just tapering off the PPM is all. No PK boosters of anything.


Do you "flush"?

or just taper gradually right down to harvest?

What ppm was your max in flower?


----------



## Renfro (Feb 15, 2019)

Day 66 update:

   

Bud close up of a side nug, some leaf tip burn from early flower, my girl accidentally used the wrong tank mix chart for a 55 gallon tank instead of the 30 gallon tank. lol

 

My girls Star Dawg plant. Probably coming down in a day or two.

 

Here is my nutrient mix chart from this run.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 15, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Do you "flush"?
> 
> or just taper gradually right down to harvest?
> 
> What ppm was your max in flower?


See the chart in my previous post. Max PPM is about 1260. I don't flush, I just reduce the nitrogen.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 15, 2019)

lol god that room looks ridiculous 

nice job man, you obviously got your shit dialed in.

One of the best journals and posters on the site


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## diggs99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Renfro said:


> See the chart in my previous post. Max PPM is about 1260. I don't flush, I just reduce the nitrogen.


So if your max is 1260, just how much tapering will you do, what will your ppm be on your last feeding roughly?

Sorry for silly questions, i am about to enter into the last couple weeks of my first harvest and am preparing to do the same as you, taper down ppm and not flush.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 15, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> lol god that room looks ridiculous
> 
> nice job man, you obviously got your shit dialed in.
> 
> One of the best journals and posters on the site


Thanks man. I hope that others can benefit from my sharing information! I have learned a lot from others over the years and like to share what I know. I am far from a perfect grower but I sure love doing it. Always learning, never stop learning. The minute you think you know it all you stop learning.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 15, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> So if your max is 1260, just how much tapering will you do, what will your ppm be on your last feeding roughly?
> 
> Sorry for silly questions, i am about to enter into the last couple weeks of my first harvest and am preparing to do the same as you, taper down ppm and not flush.


Ill have to get a reading on my next tank mix, they are refilling off the RO filter presently.

I firmly reject the idea of flushing, I feel the plants need to eat when finishing (the most important work they will do IMO). I just reduce the nitrogen at the end because thats what makes for dark green sparkler buds.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Thanks man. I hope that others can benefit from my sharing information! I have learned a lot from others over the years and like to share what I know. I am far from a perfect grower but I sure love doing it. Always learning, never stop learning. The minute you think you know it all you stop learning.



Perfect grower or not, you know how to grow and have extensive knowledge that can help so many newbs and vets alike.

Its just refreshing to see guys like you who are willing to help , thats the value of a place like this.

Trust me, people are benefiting, atleast i know i am lol


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Ill have to get a reading on my next tank mix, they are refilling off the RO filter presently.
> 
> I firmly reject the idea of flushing, I feel the plants need to eat when finishing (the most important work they will do IMO). I just reduce the nitrogen at the end because thats what makes for dark green sparkler buds.




I am only using the 1 part floranova bloom. 4-8-7, used amor si up until last week. no other additives.

will i achieve a similar result by just decreasing ppm, which in turn will be reducing N in the process


----------



## Renfro (Feb 15, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> I am only using the 1 part floranova bloom. 4-8-7, used amor si up until last week. no other additives.
> 
> will i achieve a similar result by just decreasing ppm, which in turn will be reducing N in the process


I am not familiar with the Nova line. I don't like to reduce the PPM on the P and K too much just the N. If your plants are light green and you are getting the yellowing and dying of the fan leaves from the bottom up then you not overdoing the nitrogen. When I see plants that are near done and all the fan leaves are still green thats a sign there was too much nitrogen.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I am not familiar with the Nova line. I don't like to reduce the PPM on the P and K too much just the N. If your plants are light green and you are getting the yellowing and dying of the fan leaves from the bottom up then you not overdoing the nitrogen. When I see plants that are near done and all the fan leaves are still green thats a sign there was too much nitrogen.


I guess this is where using more than 1 part nutes comes in handy. In order for me to reduce N i obvously have to reduce P and K ,which we dont want to do.

I have 1 plant that had some issues, I think it was related to PH, her older leaves look rough but all her new growth looks good. She is also the darkest green of the 4.

The other 3 are doing as you say, kinda lightening up from the bottom up

This is the problem child below


----------



## Renfro (Feb 15, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> I guess this is where using more than 1 part nutes comes in handy. In order for me to reduce N i obvously have to reduce P and K ,which we dont want to do.
> 
> I have 1 plant that had some issues, I think it was related to PH, her older leaves look rough but all her new growth looks good. She is also the darkest green of the 4.
> 
> ...


How long has that plant been in 12/12?


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 15, 2019)

38 days since I flipped

Here's a pic of her buds

She is def further behind than her 2 sisters

Issues started last week. One day one yellow leaf, 2 days later, pic above. Hasn't gotten any worse since then but looks ugly lol


----------



## Renfro (Feb 15, 2019)

It looks to me like you may be a little phosphorous deficient. A nitrogen deficiency will start at the very bottom of your plant and the whole leaf will get pale then yellow then brown and dead. Looks like there is a lot of nitrogen available because the leaves are dark green. I personally dont want to see that much nitrogen in flower. Looks like you have a ways to go in flower so there is some time to correct that should you choose to do so.

I personally want to see the plants looking rather crappy (fan leaves) in late flower. They should be consuming mobile nitrogen from the fan leaves and at the end the plants buds are the only thing that look good, the rest of the fan leaves are looking like shit. But thats just my way. I always get really good bud that smokes great when dry, no cure or flush. P and K are important in the end. The P = yield IMO and the K = terpene production. With the three part nutes I can manage the numbers well and dont need a PK booster.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 15, 2019)

Renfro said:


> It looks to me like you may be a little phosphorous deficient. A nitrogen deficiency will start at the very bottom of your plant and the whole leaf will get pale then yellow then brown and dead. Looks like there is a lot of nitrogen available because the leaves are dark green. I personally dont want to see that much nitrogen in flower. Looks like you have a ways to go in flower so there is some time to correct that should you choose to do so.
> 
> I personally want to see the plants looking rather crappy (fan leaves) in late flower. They should be consuming mobile nitrogen from the fan leaves and at the end the plants buds are the only thing that look good, the rest of the fan leaves are looking like shit. But thats just my way. I always get really good bud that smokes great when dry, no cure or flush. P and K are important in the end. The P = yield IMO and the K = terpene production. With the three part nutes I can manage the numbers well and dont need a PK booster.



That makes total sense, ive seen many grows, all the best looking bud never have nice leaves before they harvest lol

I watched a video that looked very similar to my issue and it was Phosphorous deficient. I was told to flush the plant with ph`d water and then refeed. I honestly dont know if this was correct to do or not lol

The other 3 are much lighter and have leaves doing as you say, yellowing and dying off from the bottom up, but this one has been darker green this past couple weeks and now the leaves going all nuts.

I think i will be moving to a 3 part nute going forward, if for no other reason that what we are discussing right now. Seems you have more flexibility when it comes to tweaking things as you need it.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 15, 2019)

Phosphorous can build up in the soil and lock itself out. A flush is a good way to get the excess P out of the soil.

My flush method for fixing salt buildups mid run.

Mix RO water with a little epsom salt to get about 100PPM. Plain RO water will suck the life out of your roots. pH to 6.5. Then I water with enough to fully saturate the soil and see just a little runoff. Let it sit for 20 minutes to allow the water to adsorb the salts in the soil. Then I water again with just as much as the first time, you will get a lot of runoff, runoff should be about the amount you just added. Check that for PPM, it should be high indicating that it has pulled salts out of the soil. Next I FEED. Don't wait to feed after the flush or the plants will get pissed.

I personally like to do this every 2 weeks or so during flower to prevent any buildups. Just remember, never use straight RO water and FEED after the flush. Over watering isn't what you just did, it's not letting the soil dry out between waterings thus lack of dissolved oxygen and suffocating the roots. The flush then feed only counts as one watering because it's all done pretty much at the same time.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 15, 2019)

this is exactly what I did this morning only I used tap water instead of ro

I just let it sit out for 24 hours to burn off chlorine. 

Ppm is 55 of my tap water . I ph'd to 6.4 and flushed

Waited few hours before I fed her, she was already perked up before lights went out


----------



## 5BY5LEC (Feb 16, 2019)

Renfro said:


> It looks to me like you may be a little phosphorous deficient. A nitrogen deficiency will start at the very bottom of your plant and the whole leaf will get pale then yellow then brown and dead. Looks like there is a lot of nitrogen available because the leaves are dark green. I personally dont want to see that much nitrogen in flower. Looks like you have a ways to go in flower so there is some time to correct that should you choose to do so.
> 
> I personally want to see the plants looking rather crappy (fan leaves) in late flower. They should be consuming mobile nitrogen from the fan leaves and at the end the plants buds are the only thing that look good, the rest of the fan leaves are looking like shit. But thats just my way. I always get really good bud that smokes great when dry, no cure or flush. P and K are important in the end. The P = yield IMO and the K = terpene production. With the three part nutes I can manage the numbers well and dont need a PK booster.


That's good advice. Spending a good part of my grow worried about deficiencies, I wondered if I would be able to tell later in flower between a def and senescence. I did not need to worry because near the end, yeah the fans looked like shit but they looked natural if you get what I am saying. It was like autumn in there with the purples and yellows and browns and reds, oh my. The buds are what stood out. It just looked right.


----------



## 5BY5LEC (Feb 16, 2019)

You know more than I do Renfro, but what about potassium? That can present as dark green, and the burnt looking leaf tips is another thing that leads me to say that.


----------



## 5BY5LEC (Feb 16, 2019)

BTW, your grow is the shit Renfro. If only my wife would let me loose with the spare room lol. She wants it to be an art room but I think it could be much more.....productive....than that. But that's just me and I would never tell her that.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 16, 2019)

5BY5LEC said:


> You know more than I do Renfro, but what about potassium? That can present as dark green, and the burnt looking leaf tips is another thing that leads me to say that.


Anything is possible.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 16, 2019)

5BY5LEC said:


> But that's just me and I would never tell her that.


Sometimes it doesn't pay to be right. Wise man...


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 16, 2019)

5BY5LEC said:


> You know more than I do Renfro, but what about potassium? That can present as dark green, and the burnt looking leaf tips is another thing that leads me to say that.


lol please dont overload my newbie brain with more possibilities lol


Happy wife happy life....art room it is lol


----------



## Tiflis (Feb 16, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Trust me, people are benefiting, atleast i know i am


Damn right we are


----------



## Renfro (Feb 17, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> ... what will your ppm be on your last feeding roughly?


Just measured it, 920 PPM is my last feed week. I had excell bust out a little chart of my nutes as ML added of each part. As you can see I have a little grow in there but not too much and at the very end none. You can also see the Si drop off. Kinda cool to look at it that way.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 17, 2019)

Awesome. that graph is a dream for newbs lol, so much easier understanding how you do your taper, when looking at it like this.

I see you keep giving calimagic till the end, i have noticed a few growers who say they cut it out after week 5-6. Its so crazy how different growers have such different opinions on how to do things, funny thing is, most of them all work lol

So your taper isnt all that severe, 1260 down to 920ppm

I will try and use that as a guideline. My PPM was 1200 last feeding. that was 10ml/g of bloom. I plan to drop down to 800-900 by the last week. My issue obviously is not being able to lower my N without lowering PK. 

Bought the 3 pack of flora yesterday, next run i will be using this instead of the floranova.

I already have Si, i normally use tap water, do you recommend still using calimagic?

How important is the B52? 

I know by using what you use its not gonna all of a sudden turn me into RENFRO , but i also know the closer i mimic the good ones, the closer i get to being good lol


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## Renfro (Feb 17, 2019)

As to the tap water and calimagic... I would have the water tested, see whats in it if it has more than 50 PPM. It probably has calcium so adding more would likely lockout magnesium therefore you may wanna just add some epsom salt instead, perhaps 150 - 200 PPM worth. Sometimes our water has a spike in magnesium so when that happens i am glad I am on RO, makes things simple.

Without CO2 you may not need such high ppm so you may end up taking it down 10 or 15 percent on the mix PPM and as long as you don't see anything lacking you're good.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 17, 2019)

I don't think the B52 is importtant, havent noticed a difference really, just used it for two runs and won't pay for that again.


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## diggs99 (Feb 17, 2019)

my tap is consistently 45ppm it seems.

I will keep that in mind, regarding 10-15% decrease in ppm. I wont be using Co2 anytime soon. maybe by end of summer once my garage is built and my new room is being put together lol.


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## Renfro (Feb 17, 2019)

I measure my PPM before the B52 BTW.

At 45 PPM I wouldnt worry about the tap water too much. My Calimagic comes to 3.33 ml/gal, you may try 3 ml/gal. The other nutes i would probably decrease by 15% since you aren't using co2 and start there. Those numbers are for a 30 gallon tank BTW.


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## Renfro (Feb 17, 2019)

I think I will try this mix taper on room B next run and see if there is a difference. Probably without the B52 though. Always playing around with the mix, lol.


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## Major Blazer (Feb 17, 2019)

@Renfro Glad I stumbled here, lovely grows. I always wanted to nab a stardawg seed too, jealous! Interestingly I've been thinking about doing a dtw setup like this but what has been holding me back is how to collect the waste water with a floor drain. Doesn't it just back up in the lines for you? Or do you have a subterranean collection site or something?


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## diggs99 (Feb 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I measure my PPM before the B52 BTW.
> 
> At 45 PPM I wouldnt worry about the tap water too much. My Calimagic comes to 3.33 ml/gal, you may try 3 ml/gal. The other nutes i would probably decrease by 15% since you aren't using co2 and start there. Those numbers are for a 30 gallon tank BTW.



Ok, thanks for all the info once again renfro. This stuff is very helpful to guys like me.

I need to grab some calimagic and i think ill be all set for the next run.

What are you ph`ing your water to? 6.2-6.5 range?

Im in FFOF/perilite


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## Couch_Lock (Feb 17, 2019)

Renfro is gonna need a good hook up, maybe grow for dispensaries in ur state?


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## Renfro (Feb 17, 2019)

Major Blazer said:


> @RenfroI've been thinking about doing a dtw setup like this but what has been holding me back is how to collect the waste water with a floor drain. Doesn't it just back up in the lines for you? Or do you have a subterranean collection site or something?


I have never had that problem. I use 1" lines for my 10 gallon buckets and 1/2" lines for my 5 gallon ones.



Couch_Lock said:


> Renfro is gonna need a good hook up, maybe grow for dispensaries in ur state?


Naw I don't want a job. With my back I get a good check each month and I just medicate myself and have fun with my hobby.



diggs99 said:


> What are you ph`ing your water to? 6.2-6.5 range?


Exactly 6.5 every time. Thats the magic spot for soil and soiless mix.


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## diggs99 (Feb 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Exactly 6.5 every time. Thats the magic spot for soil and soiless mix.



are you using pens for PH and PPM?

or do you run one of those fancy controllers ive seen around lol

I have 2 pens, PH and TDS. i trust the TDS, since i calibrated , it has stayed consistant, the PH pen is another story. i abandoned using it this past few weeks because of inconsistency, went to the drops , issues with one plant started happening shortly after.

I need a new pen i think, was much easier and more exact than the drops.


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## Major Blazer (Feb 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I have never had that problem. I use 1" lines for my 10 gallon buckets and 1/2" lines for my 5 gallon ones.


Excuse my ignorance then how does it fill a waste bucket if the drains are ground level. Is there standing water in the bottoms of those lower buckets?


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## Renfro (Feb 17, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> are you using pens for PH and PPM?
> 
> or do you run one of those fancy controllers ive seen around lol
> 
> ...


I like my blue lab pen for pH. I calibrate it weekly and it's rarely even off but the key is I use it everyday. If they sit they can go bad or get out of whack. Supposedly a soak in TAP water can fix a bad probe sometimes. Never put it in RO or distilled water as it supposedly messes up the probe, always have some nutes mixed in the water first. All that said I usually end up having to replace the pH pen every few years. It just gets to the point where it takes forever to read and needs calibration constantly.

My PPM pen is just a cheapo and it works great.



Major Blazer said:


> Excuse my ignorance then how does it fill a waste bucket if the drains are ground level. Is there standing water in the bottoms of those lower buckets?


There is just a little slope in my floor towards the floor drains, thats how they usually build them so water will run that way if a water heater blows or something. The only little bit of water that remains is below the barbed fitting in the side of the bucket. There is a few inches between that and the bottom of the top bucket so roots don't really work their way down there due to air pruning.


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## Major Blazer (Feb 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> There is just a little slope in my floor towards the floor drains, thats how they usually build them so water will run that way if a water heater blows or something. The only little bit of water that remains is below the barbed fitting in the side of the bucket. There is a few inches between that and the bottom of the top bucket so roots don't really work their way down there due to air pruning.


Ahh ok I understand now. Lucky to have that slope! I have to elevate everything but then headroom becomes an issue and I'm trying to hack my way out of that. Was thinking of using buckets from an ebb/flow system with a recessed drain, slightly elevated above ground level, and then draining into a shallow tote. Your monsters are inspiring me more.


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## Renfro (Feb 17, 2019)

Major Blazer said:


> Ahh ok I understand now. Lucky to have that slope! I have to elevate everything but then headroom becomes an issue and I'm trying to hack my way out of that. Was thinking of using buckets from an ebb/flow system with a recessed drain, slightly elevated above ground level, and then draining into a shallow tote. Your monsters are inspiring me more.


Yeah my buddy has higher ceilings and he did the same buckets I have, he put a grommet and 1" barbed elbow in the bottoms of his buckets and set them on some squares of 1.5" thick styrofoam insulation. He only has maybe a quarter inch that doesn't drain because of the grommet.


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## diggs99 (Feb 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I like my blue lab pen for pH. I calibrate it weekly and it's rarely even off but the key is I use it everyday. If they sit they can go bad or get out of whack. Supposedly a soak in TAP water can fix a bad probe sometimes. Never put it in RO or distilled water as it supposedly messes up the probe, always have some nutes mixed in the water first. All that said I usually end up having to replace the pH pen every few years. It just gets to the point where it takes forever to read and needs calibration constantly.
> 
> My PPM pen is just a cheapo and it works great.
> 
> ...


Ya i think the PH pen i have is just junk. im gonna try and calibrate it again, but once you lose trust in something, its hard to get it back lol

I should have just spent the extra $80 and bought the bluelab


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## Renfro (Feb 17, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ya i think the PH pen i have is just junk. im gonna try and calibrate it again, but once you lose trust in something, its hard to get it back lol
> 
> I should have just spent the extra $80 and bought the bluelab


I had a milwaukee that needed calibration every use and it was never close when I would calibrate it. The only ones I had good luck with were Blue Lab and Hanna Instruments (that was a HI98129 pH PPM combo pen). Needed a pen in a hurry and the local store didn't have the hanna so I tried a blue lab and I have had a couple of those over the last 3 years or so. Using them daily helps keep them alive.


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## diggs99 (Feb 17, 2019)

I just asked renfro about removing my bloom nutes and replacing them with 0-10-10 for last couple weeks. Removing N without removing PK

You say this should be fine, but make sure they still get the micros

Any recommendations on how to achieve that?

i assume calmag for calcium and magnesium, are there others to worry about?


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## Renfro (Feb 17, 2019)

Yeah there is a lot of different micronutrients from boron to molybdenum, zinc and so forth. In my GH 3 part the micro bottle has all those goodies, so if you have that you could go with the micro at say perhaps 8mL per gallon and enough of the liquid cool bloom to get your target PPM of say 1000. Perhaps a little calmag if you use it (add first).


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## diggs99 (Feb 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah there is a lot of different micronutrients from boron to molybdenum, zinc and so forth. In my GH 3 part the micro bottle has all those goodies, so if you have that you could go with the micro at say perhaps 8mL per gallon and enough of the liquid cool bloom to get your target PPM of say 1000. Perhaps a little calmag if you use it (add first).


Ok perfect, will mix up the next feeding this way for sure.

Are you on a certain feed schedule? like water,water ,feed or water ,feed, water?
Or are you giving nutes with every watering in the last couple weeks?


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## Renfro (Feb 17, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ok perfect, will mix up the next feeding this way for sure.
> 
> Are you on a certain feed schedule? like water,water ,feed or water ,feed, water?
> Or are you giving nutes with every watering in the last couple weeks?


I feed every watering. I once tried skipping the feed and the plants would get upset with me right away.

You do want ample runoff every watering to help minimize salt buildups and I do give a flush every couple weeks to ensure there isn't a buildup.

I flush with RO water and I add a little epsom salt to get about 100 PPM just so the RO water doesn't suck the life out of the roots (I know there is a technical term something about ions perhaps? lol). I pH the flush mix to 6.5. I normally feed my 10 gallon pots with 2.5 gallons and get about 20% runoff. To flush I hit them with 2.5 gallons of the flush mix, wait 20 minutes to let that soak up the salts in the soil, then I hit them with another 2.5 gallons of the flush mix to push that all out and then I give 2.5 gallons of feed with normal nutrients so they can keep on rocking. This isn't overwatering as it's all done at the same time. Over watering is not letting the medium dry out between watering and thus suffocating the roots.


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## diggs99 (Feb 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I feed every watering. I once tried skipping the feed and the plants would get upset with me right away.
> 
> You do want ample runoff every watering to help minimize salt buildups and I do give a flush every couple weeks to ensure there isn't a buildup.
> 
> I flush with RO water and I add a little epsom salt to get about 100 PPM just so the RO water doesn't suck the life out of the roots (I know there is a technical term something about ions perhaps? lol). I pH the flush mix to 6.5. I normally feed my 10 gallon pots with 2.5 gallons and get about 20% runoff. To flush I hit them with 2.5 gallons of the flush mix, wait 20 minutes to let that soak up the salts in the soil, then I hit them with another 2.5 gallons of the flush mix to push that all out and then I give 2.5 gallons of feed with normal nutrients so they can keep on rocking. This isn't overwatering as it's all done at the same time. Over watering is not letting the medium dry out between watering and thus suffocating the roots.



Ya i just did that with my problem girl a few days ago. flushed with ph`d water then waited a bit and fed her like normal.She showed no ill affects of it whatsoever.

i usually water to runoff, so i assume salt buildup issues should be decreased for me. I do like the idea of feeding them nutes every watering tho, especially when the number of times they actually take water is not very high in the grand scheme of things.

Atleast for me, my plants are in 5g fabric pots and they are still taking 3-5 days to dry out completely, 5 being close to wilting. I see some guys are watering every 2 days, kinda makes me wonder why my plants arent using so much water.


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## Couch_Lock (Feb 17, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Atleast for me, my plants are in 5g fabric pots and they are still taking 3-5 days to dry out completely, 5 being close to wilting. I see some guys are watering every 2 days, kinda makes me wonder why my plants arent using so much water.


I do know one variable as to why. Some strains require water more often, probably due to their genetics and the environments they were originally grown in.

There could be more reasons why, also.


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## diggs99 (Feb 17, 2019)

Couch_Lock said:


> I do know one variable to why. Some strains require water more often, probably due to their genetics and the environments they were originally grown in.
> 
> There could be more reasons why, also.


Ya for sure. That makes sense. Although the one that messed me up most was a journal growing the same strain under the same light and both in 5g fabric pots. he was watering every 2 days the last few weeks of flower. 

Still many variables in play tho, maybe his rh was much lower than mine, maybe his temps were not quite so controlled? i dunno to be honest lol just hope its not something im doing wrong, you know?


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## Couch_Lock (Feb 17, 2019)

Could be a diff pheno......its just not parental genetics, could also be grandparents. They all started out as landrace strains, particular to a given area and its particular environment (precipitation amounts, latitude/longitude, etc).


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## Couch_Lock (Feb 17, 2019)

Party is @ Renfro's this year!!!! No bout adoubt it!


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## Renfro (Feb 18, 2019)

So I may change things up in a room next run.

Nutrients. I am using GH Flora and I spend a little over 300 bucks a month on nutrients. (I did the math with excel)

I have a friend who is getting amazing results with Jacks Hydro. jrpeters.com

He uses their 15-12-26 Part A and their Calcium Nitrate Part B along with Epsom Salt. Part A is $55 for a 25 pound bag, Part B is $50 for a 25 pound bag and they sell a 25 pound bucket of epsom salt for $35 bucks. So all three is $140 + shipping.

I'll do my math not including shipping although I am sure that's gonna cost a few bucks.

Part A 3.6 Grams per Gallon
Part B 2.4 Grams per Gallon
Epsom Salt 1.2 Grams per Gallon

So I did the math on my mix and it would only be costing me 95 cents to mix a 30 gallon barrel of this stuff. That's my daily consumption for both rooms. A dollar a day! So I would be spending 10% of what I currently do for nutrients.

His results are great, he converted from GH Flora as well.


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## Thundercat (Feb 18, 2019)

I've seen lots I great reviews for the jacks. I've thought about trying it. The Envy brand nutes I use are a similar concept. If you haven't check them out I would say it's a least worth looking at too. I get outstanding flavor and very healthy growth.

https://www.envybrand.com/index.php/envy-hydroponics


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## Renfro (Feb 18, 2019)

I saw a thread on here about it, people seem to get great results. It's simple and cheap. I think I would be silly not to give it a shot.


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## thenasty1 (Feb 18, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I saw a thread on here about it, people seem to get great results. It's simple and cheap. I think I would be silly not to give it a shot.


i switched to dry nutes a while back, wish i did it sooner. your wallet will thank you. i suggest grabbing some monopotassium phosphate and potassium sulfate too, youll probably want to tweak the standard 321 recipe a bit. plenty of good info to be found in the jacks threads when it comes to that sort of thing


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## Renfro (Feb 18, 2019)

thenasty1 said:


> i switched to dry nutes a while back, wish i did it sooner. your wallet will thank you. i suggest grabbing some monopotassium phosphate and potassium sulfate too, youll probably want to tweak the standard 321 recipe a bit. plenty of good info to be found in the jacks threads when it comes to that sort of thing


I assum these are basically a PK booster? How much do you use and when?


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## thenasty1 (Feb 18, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I assum these are basically a PK booster? How much do you use and when?


i start adding mkp around the end of week 2 of 12-12, when they start to set flower. i reduce jacks a bit when i start using mkp, so i run it at .5g/gal. to determine application rate, youll want to calculate elemental ppm (i dont recommend winging it). there isnt really a "one recipe to rule them all". if you are happy with your current nutes, you could calculate their elemental ppm and diy it with the dry stuff. a lot of folks run the 321 recipe from start to finish with good results. some folks run a lucas formula recipe. lots of room for customization with dry nutes


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## smokebros (Feb 19, 2019)

@Renfro You will not regret switching over to Jacks, neither will your wallet or your plants. And your friend is right about running it full strength from start to finish. I tried running it half strength and once my plants got larger (and their nutritional requirements became more demanding) I was running into deficiencies. That went away once switching to full strength. I've since fed all my other plants full strength from the beginning of life and they are all thriving, no burn whatsoever. 

If you ever switch PH pens look at the AI311 from Apera. It has replaceable glass probes and his been the best PH pen I've ever used. 

https://www.amazon.com/Apera-Instruments-AI311-Replaceable-2-00-16-00/dp/B01ENFOIQE/ref=sr_1_3?crid=6H15FZVCEGP2&keywords=apera+ph+meter&qid=1550588222&s=industrial&sprefix=apera+ph,industrial,184&sr=1-3


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## Renfro (Feb 19, 2019)

A friend brought me some cuts. A Triple Nova, LV Lemon Skunk and a Wedding Cake! Sweet...

Getting started on harvest, filling bread trays. Lots of trips up and down the stairs LoL. I get some pics up when things slow down.


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## diggs99 (Feb 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> A friend brought me some cuts. A Triple Nova, LV Lemon Skunk and a Wedding Cake! Sweet...
> 
> Getting started on harvest, filling bread trays. Lots of trips up and down the stairs LoL. I get some pics up when things slow down.



I want some Wedding cake, will be fun watching you grow that out

my wish list

Wedding cake
Black Diamond Og
UW purps


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## Renfro (Feb 20, 2019)

Update Day 70: Harvest starting up. Gonna be busy. Got some pics for ya all, more to come.

The rooms have that nice silvery frosty look. Bud smells off the chart.

      

Got the drying and trimming room all cleaned and ready to go.

 

I decided to do a defoliation experiment in my veg. I did 6 plants and left the other 6 alone.

  



smokebros said:


> If you ever switch PH pens look at the AI311 from Apera. It has replaceable glass probes and his been the best PH pen I've ever used.


Looks nice, I will grab one of those to have as a backup. They have an even cheaper one if you only need one point accuracy. Thanks bro, good looking out.


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## Mellow old School (Feb 20, 2019)

Always a pleasure to drop in on this thread mate.

Looking nice as always...


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## diggs99 (Feb 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Update Day 70: Harvest starting up. Gonna be busy. Got some pics for ya all, more to come.
> 
> The rooms have that nice silvery frosty look. Bud smells off the chart.
> 
> ...



Oh man, they are litterally bursting out of their cages lol

Love the office/harvest room. I will def be making sure i allot space for a similar type room in my new space.

Your gonna be busy, beautiful crop bud, good luck with the harvest 

Next batch look nice and healthy, gonna be fun watching those fill the cages


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## Renfro (Feb 20, 2019)

A buddy of mine made this 3.4 gram THCA "diamond". Just had to share it.


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## diggs99 (Feb 20, 2019)

lol nice

How is something like that made?


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## Renfro (Feb 20, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> lol nice
> 
> How is something like that made?


He has a process that I haven't fully understood yet, he talks so fast. lol he usually starts with rosin from his press then he refines it with washes, I know pentane is used at one point, cholroform at another... the final stage is the growing of the crystal, that takes time and the room his lab is in can't have any vibrations.


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## diggs99 (Feb 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> He has a process that I haven't fully understood yet, he talks so fast. lol he usually starts with rosin from his press then he refines it with washes, I know pentane is used at one point, cholroform at another... the final stage is the growing of the crystal, that takes time and the room his lab is in can't have any vibrations.


Sounds like an elaborate setup/process

altho making fkn diamonds like that should be lol

Looks awesome.


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## Renfro (Feb 20, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> I want some Wedding cake, will be fun watching you grow that out


Yeah I plan to breed a wedding cake cut. Not sure if the pollen donor will be a kandy kush or a gorilla glue. Gorilla glue is so overused now that I may go with the Kandy. She grows big and yields amazing, super frosty, lemony piney smell with a touch of diesel at the end.


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## diggs99 (Feb 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah I plan to breed a wedding cake cut. Not sure if the pollen donor will be a kandy kush or a gorilla glue. Gorilla glue is so overused now that I may go with the Kandy. She grows big and yields amazing, super frosty, lemony piney smell with a touch of diesel at the end.


bring on the KANDY CAKE lol


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## Couch_Lock (Feb 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah I plan to breed a wedding cake cut. Not sure if the pollen donor will be a kandy kush or a gorilla glue. Gorilla glue is so overused now that I may go with the Kandy. She grows big and yields amazing, super frosty, lemony piney smell with a touch of diesel at the end.


one of my fav strains, WC!

Had a z of that just before Xmas. In nY it commands $300 an oz.


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## Renfro (Feb 20, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> bring on the KANDY CAKE lol


Or Wedding Kandy actually


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## diggs99 (Feb 20, 2019)

Do you deal with any seedbanks at all renfro? 

or is everything from cuts?

i have been searching for wedding cake for a while, always sold out. Obv its a hot strain, for good reason, ive only smoked 3 joints of it, i absolutely loved it.

Black Diamond og is still my fav tho...apparently theres cuts available on IG and seeds available in very few places...I have been searching, but hard to know if its the real thing or not.


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## diggs99 (Feb 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Or Wedding Kandy actually


That was my other obvious choice, having Wedding in front makes it known its fire lol


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## Renfro (Feb 20, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> That was my other obvious choice, having Wedding in front makes it known its fire lol


They usually name strains as Female x Pollen Donor. that said I could call it whatever I want I suppose, unless someone already made that cross.


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## diggs99 (Feb 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> They usually name strains as Female x Pollen Donor. that said I could call it whatever I want I suppose, unless someone already made that cross.



learn something new everyday

honestly did not know that


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## Renfro (Feb 20, 2019)

I'll probably do Kandy Kush x the following

Wedding Cake
Purple Punch
Gorilla Glue
Stardawg

may toss cuts from the Triple Nova and LV Lemon Skunk in there too. lol Probably need some people to help test the beans down the road.


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## diggs99 (Feb 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I'll probably do Kandy Kush x the following
> 
> Wedding Cake
> Purple Punch
> ...


4 of those strains are all main stay fire weed. That would be a nice collection to have lol

I have never tried Kandy Kush, but your love for it is making me want to.

Hopefully down the road ill be growing good enough to actually test for ya. So very long to go before i get there tho lol


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## Renfro (Feb 20, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Hopefully down the road ill be growing good enough to actually test for ya. So very long to go before i get there tho lol


Don't sell yourself short. You will probably be s perfect candidate for a tester by the time I get beans made lol.


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## diggs99 (Feb 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Don't sell yourself short. You will probably be s perfect candidate for a tester by the time I get beans made lol.


haha thanks man


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## diggs99 (Feb 20, 2019)

Canuk seeds has some wedding cake in stock finally

Gonna have to do some research and see what they are like for a seed bank before ordering any.


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## Renfro (Feb 21, 2019)

So in my veg room I had one of my 1000W MH bulbs bite the dust. I went ahead and hung up the two 1000W DE CMH lights that I have. Wow I had to hang them 18" higher because they are so bright. I measured the light intensity at the canopy to match those readings with my old lights. The new lights cover a lot more area with the same wattage AND they make less heat.

Next I will hang my LED light so I can use it while I wait for my tent. Then my veg room will be all modern lol.


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## Renfro (Feb 21, 2019)

This pic is a 1kW SE HPS (left) and a 1kW DE CMH (right).

 

This is my LED light.

 

Room with updated lights:


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## myke (Feb 21, 2019)

So how really is your peat base different than coco?Reading your feed to runoff schedule sounds the same as coco,only your ph is higher.


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## Renfro (Feb 21, 2019)

myke said:


> So how really is your peat base different than coco?Reading your feed to runoff schedule sounds the same as coco,only your ph is higher.


With coco you don't let it dry between waterings. The pH is different for sure. Other than that not much is different. You do need to wash and buffer coco before using.


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## Pa-Nature (Feb 21, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> ugh hydrobuilder dont ship outside the US


I have that problem all the time
BTw bro if ya wanna chat hit me up in msgs I give ya my email to arrange # swap


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## Renfro (Feb 21, 2019)

Day 72 Update: Haven't started chopping room A yet, these pics are from that room. First 3 have a flash on.

  

Side nugs from a row end

 

Couple room shots, you can see that silvery frost.

  

Buds


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## Fake stoker (Feb 22, 2019)

strain experimental room. man. nice work.


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## YouGrowYourWay (Feb 22, 2019)

Incredible as always!


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## growingforfun (Feb 23, 2019)

@Renfro I'm sure you've answered this a dozen times already but who's the breeder on your gorilla glue? I've wanted to run it for a while but theres a lot of people putting it out an a lot of em look sketch. Thanks.


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## Renfro (Feb 23, 2019)

growingforfun said:


> @Renfro I'm sure you've answered this a dozen times already but who's the breeder on your gorilla glue? I've wanted to run it for a while but theres a lot of people putting it out an a lot of em look sketch. Thanks.


No clue brother, I got the cut from a dude that worked at the Treehouse several years ago, met him on here, havent seen him around in like 3 years. Mine is a forum cut, the seeds now werent around then.


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## diggs99 (Feb 24, 2019)

Placed an order with seedsman this morning

Wedding cake by Pheno Finder
Sunset sherbet by Pheno Finder
Gorilla zkittlez by Barneys


Got a canuk puck coming too($60usd) , it has 3x gg4, 3x jack herer, 3x kushy kush and 3x Cheese

Finally Found Wedding cake tho, so thats up next for me i think.


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## diggs99 (Feb 24, 2019)

Renfro said:


> This pic is a 1kW SE HPS (left) and a 1kW DE CMH (right).
> 
> View attachment 4287174
> 
> ...


The De CMH has to be kept that much higher hey?

i assume your using a meter to set your distance?

Cant wait till mine shows up. next run my flower room coverage/light penetration should be much better than this run.


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## Renfro (Feb 24, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> The De CMH has to be kept that much higher hey?
> 
> i assume your using a meter to set your distance?
> 
> Cant wait till mine shows up. next run my flower room coverage/light penetration should be much better than this run.


Yeah it's just a cheap meter but I used it to measure the intensity I was using and to match it I have to raise the light, that resulted in more growing area with the same wattage. I had to tell me AC unit to relax because the heat is way lower in there now.


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## diggs99 (Feb 24, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah it's just a cheap meter but I used it to measure the intensity I was using and to match it I have to raise the light, that resulted in more growing area with the same wattage. I had to tell me AC unit to relax because the heat is way lower in there now.


Thats very good , same intensity, bigger foot print and less heat....seems like exactly what we want in a light

That was my next question, if you noticed any heat difference.


----------



## Renfro (Feb 24, 2019)

I really think a 600 or 630 watt DE CMH could cover a 4 x 4 area just as well as my 1000w DE HPS. With way less heat and more UV. I am merely speculating at this point however, perhaps I will invest in some 600's at some point and see what it does. That would be a 4800 watt saving for me. That adds up to 1728 kWh per month x 11.3 cents per kWh for a monthly saving of 195 bucks. At that rate 12 lights would pay for themselves in a few years.


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## Renfro (Feb 24, 2019)

Probably faster than 2 years because I was only counting power savings on the lights not the AC.


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## diggs99 (Feb 24, 2019)

Ya for sure , that would be huge savings for your garden. 

The more I read about cmh the more I like and am excited to get mine.

Are cmh bulbs life expectancy similar to that of hps? Or supposed last longer?


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## Renfro (Feb 24, 2019)

CMH bulbs are supposed to be good for a lot longer. They claim 20,000 hours and still have 80% of their output, however thats pushing it lol. Id say if you replace a HPS bulb yearly you would probably replace a CMH every 2 years. That said I would replace them yearly as I replace a HPS bulb twice a year.


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## diggs99 (Feb 24, 2019)

Ya I guess it's not really about how long they last, it's about how long they last at the high intensity we want for our plants.


I bought the Phillips bulbs for both of mine, they were 110.00 cad each, def not cheap, but if I can get 4-6 grows or more out of them, it will be nice.


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## Renfro (Feb 24, 2019)

I just like to think of the value of the weed vs. the price of a bulb. Lets just assume that 10% less light = 10% less yield. Is 10% of your yield worth more than the bulb? So replacing bulbs often actually makes sense. That said, a CMH bulb costs more but lasts twice as long. So there is a little savings there but as you stated, it's more about the quality of the light. The UV thats in the CMH spectrum is awesome for resin production too. The HPS still has the far red but yields people have reported are either really good or really bad. That tells me that some people may be running the lights too close?? I do think a perfect room for me would have tall ceilings and use a mix of DE HPS and DE CMH with LED on the side lighting.


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## diggs99 (Feb 24, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I just like to think of the value of the weed vs. the price of a bulb. Lets just assume that 10% less light = 10% less yield. Is 10% of your yield worth more than the bulb? So replacing bulbs often actually makes sense. That said, a CMH bulb costs more but lasts twice as long. So there is a little savings there but as you stated, it's more about the quality of the light. The UV thats in the CMH spectrum is awesome for resin production too. The HPS still has the far red but yields people have reported are either really good or really bad. That tells me that some people may be running the lights too close?? I do think a perfect room for me would have tall ceilings and use a mix of DE HPS and DE CMH with LED on the side lighting.


Ya we discussed this before, I def think having the different spectrum from all 3 would be amazing, the plants would have to love that, wouldn't they? My plan to have 10' ceilings in the new room is a must. Am still considering 12' yet. 


I agree with yield vs bulbs, they aren't expensive enough for that.


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## Renfro (Feb 24, 2019)

Yeah I am planning 12 but want 14, just the cost goes way up for equipment rental as a telehandler won't lift the sections if they are that tall.


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## diggs99 (Feb 24, 2019)

Ya every foot above the 8' mark costs more and more and more 

Material, equipment needed etc

Once you get above 12' now your into another different ballgame again for costs for sure. 

I'm building my garage out of ice block (insulated concrete forms) right to the rafters, it's like putting together lego blocks, main expense obv will be the concrete pour.

I'm buying my rafters this time, we're having a loft up top, so easier to buy the rafters than me trying to take the time to build them. 

I want 12' ceilings but will prob go with 10's like planned


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## Renfro (Feb 24, 2019)

That sounds like a solid building! Love it. Like the three pigs and whatnot...

I definitely want to spend the money to have a low voc spray foam job on all the walls and roof since it will be a metal building and I also want to do a white epoxy floor coat. I want that place sealed up tight as a drum.


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## diggs99 (Feb 24, 2019)

Def epoxy floors, so clean and easy to maintain. My neighbor just had his done last summer, very nice

Ya the cost of lumber and plywood , insulation, etc is so absurd around here that it's just as cost effective to go the ICF route . Quite a few guys in this area are going this route. We're also in a very high wind spot, so more strength the better I say lol


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## Renfro (Feb 24, 2019)

Well four rows down, my back is killing me lol. Two more to go.


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## Couch_Lock (Feb 24, 2019)

I plan on naming my plants similar to how they smell and look. The genes have been crossed more then once so.......why not?


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## thenasty1 (Feb 24, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I also want to do a white epoxy floor coat.


epoxy floor coating is one of the best moves ive ever made in terms of room design. so easy to clean
you may want to add an extra layer of vapor barrier. i did not in one of my rooms, and im starting to get bubbles in my top coat. not sure if this is more or less necessary depending on your local climate or anything like that, but i figured id chime in to potentially spare you some pain in the ass in the future


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## diggs99 (Feb 25, 2019)

renfro?

we havent heard from you since you said you had 2 more rows to go?

you ok bro? you all trimmed out?


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## Renfro (Feb 25, 2019)

I slept most of the day. lol


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## diggs99 (Feb 25, 2019)

lol i figured you were pretty exhausted after clearing out rooms like that 

Hows everything looking? you pleased?


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## Renfro (Feb 25, 2019)

Looks good quality wise, didn't get the normal yield because I flipped them too early. Next round will be bigger, watch and see. lol I'll get some pics when it's dry and hand trimmed.


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## diggs99 (Feb 25, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Looks good quality wise, didn't get the normal yield because I flipped them too early. Next round will be bigger, watch and see. lol I'll get some pics when it's dry and hand trimmed.


You were expecting the lower yield tho right? I think i remember you mentioning a while back that you expected this run to yield less.

did you find the 10k MH help with resin? is that something you would notice during the trim?


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## Renfro (Feb 25, 2019)

Yeah I expected this run to yield less after I saw the stretch. I was trying to make sure I didn't burn any tops (have done that before lol) and I was a little too cautious. It "looks" like somewhere around 33 - 35 pounds but thats just a wet guess. Next time I want to see buds that are much larger, these weren't nearly as big as usual.

I can definitely tell there is a visible difference in resin production. Only smoking some will be the real proof of the pudding.


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## diggs99 (Feb 25, 2019)

33-35 is still respectable lol . How long will it take you to flip the rooms and bring in the next run? 

I got myself 2 bread racks from my buddy and my loupe finally showed up.

Lights come back on in 5 minutes, I am excited to finally see just how close these girls are getting.

I am gonna use your simplistic drying routine. I assume my bud will cure naturally once stored .


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## Renfro (Feb 25, 2019)

It will probably be another 3 or 4 days before I move the next run into the rooms. Then I will veg them until I feel they are ready for flip, maybe two weeks ish then 70 days of flower.

Yeah just let them dry most of the way and jar them to cure. Just make sure you don't jar them too wet or they can mold. If they are too dry they can't cure. So it's a tricky time. You can always get them dry and remoisten them if needed by putting a few fan leaves in the jar with the bud.


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## diggs99 (Feb 25, 2019)

I just went over the 4 plants with the loupe, trics are still clear, couldnt find any ambers at all.

they still got time yet

Ya i have some boveda 62% packs, the plan is to slow dry on the bread trays until they start feeling dry/crispy on the outside, then dry trim and stick in jars i guess lol. I will monitor the jars very closely until i know for certain we wont be having mold issues.


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## megrowweed (Feb 25, 2019)

Hey, sorry if i post this here but i need some help quick. My plant is in week 4 of flower and has gone really bushy inspite of me defoliating it in week 2. What should i do defoliate again? Or do i just leave it here are some pictures for reference.


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## Renfro (Feb 25, 2019)

I personally don't do much defoliation in flower. Maybe tuck some of the leaves that block lower nodes? I am by no means the master of defoliation as I rarely do it myself.


----------



## diggs99 (Feb 25, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I personally don't do much defoliation in flower. Maybe tuck some of the leaves that block lower nodes? I am by no means the master of defoliation as I rarely do it myself.


Is that because it's not needed with all the lighting and proper environment you have? Or do you just not believe in it?


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## Renfro (Feb 25, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Is that because it's not needed with all the lighting and proper environment you have? Or do you just not believe in it?


I just don't do it. I think the plants need those leaves in flower. In veg I can see it.


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## diggs99 (Feb 25, 2019)

I did it in veg, then again 3rd week of flower. No other reason than following a few other growers who did it this way. I have nothing to compare it to, so not sure if it helped or hurt lol

I was a little concerned about air flow and light penetration. My tent got packed pretty quick it seemed, it def helped in both of those areas, I'm just not sure if it also adversely affected yield in the process.


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## Couch_Lock (Feb 25, 2019)

Hopefully you grew a familiar strain, R. That way you can judge improved resin production or not more accurately?


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## Renfro (Feb 25, 2019)

Couch_Lock said:


> Hopefully you grew a familiar strain, R. That way you can judge improved resin production or not more accurately?


Yeah Glue was all I have been running for over 3 years. Just recently started playing with other strains with my girls plants.


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## dr.tomb (Feb 25, 2019)

megrowweed said:


> Hey, sorry if i post this here but i need some help quick. My plant is in week 4 of flower and has gone really bushy inspite of me defoliating it in week 2. What should i do defoliate again? Or do i just leave it here are some pictures for reference.



I'd suggest sucker branch removal, aka the scarecrow method a master grower taught me. I do it up to 3 weeks into flower. I never remove fan leaves, unless in flowering they start to yellow from lack of light. The plant will use the nutes in the leaves and cull the leaves. 


Here is a thread I made explaining it. Obviously skip past the initial trim. 

http://www.rollitup.org/t/2-pound-critical-2-0.976213/#post-14521698


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## diggs99 (Feb 27, 2019)

hows the room drying bro?


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## Renfro (Feb 27, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> hows the room drying bro?


It's coming along. Been focused on cleaning the flowering rooms and whatnot, changing the bulbs, a little swamp cooler maintenance, trellis repair...


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## diggs99 (Feb 27, 2019)

Renfro said:


> It's coming along. Been focused on cleaning the flowering rooms and whatnot, changing the bulbs, a little swamp cooler maintenance, trellis repair...



Ya i would imagine the transition phase for you is also a bit of work. .

How long will you veg the clones before you flip them?

It never ends hey lol


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## Renfro (Feb 27, 2019)

I will veg them until they look like they are ready to fill the room up lol. Definitely don't wanna flip too early this round.

Hoes your trichomes looking today?


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## diggs99 (Feb 27, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I will veg them until they look like they are ready to fill the room up lol. Definitely don't wanna flip too early this round.
> 
> Hoes your trichomes looking today?


Ya theres def an art of when to flip, to maximize full potential it seems.

My lights come back on in 30 mins, will check then. May take the one girl out of the tent and get a pic under normal light. 

Once tricomes get to this stage, do they change quickly? like one day no amber, the next day could be a bunch? or is it slow and gradual?


----------



## Pa-Nature (Feb 27, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ya theres def an art of when to flip, to maximize full potential it seems.
> 
> My lights come back on in 30 mins, will check then. May take the one girl out of the tent and get a pic under normal light.
> 
> Once tricomes get to this stage, do they change quickly? like one day no amber, the next day could be a bunch? or is it slow and gradual?


slow dayu by day with a 3-4 day span once starting jmho


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## Pa-Nature (Feb 27, 2019)

hows ya fade


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## Pa-Nature (Feb 27, 2019)

this what i mean by fade


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## diggs99 (Feb 27, 2019)

Pa-Nature said:


> slow dayu by day with a 3-4 day span once starting jmho


Ok good stuff, i didnt want to get high and miss it lol


Oddly enough, the plant thats closest to finished is probably the least faded, one of the 4 is fading real bad/good , she looks to be close too, according to her milkyness, but shes still further behind than the Atomic.


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## Pa-Nature (Feb 27, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ok good stuff, i didnt want to get high and miss it lol
> 
> 
> Oddly enough, the plant thats closest to finished is probably the least faded, one of the 4 is fading real bad/good , she looks to be close too, according to her milkyness, but shes still further behind than the Atomic.


Why you say closest ?


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## diggs99 (Feb 27, 2019)

Her Tricomes are majority milky with a few ambers scattered over the plant.

The 2nd one is starting to get milky but still has alot of clear.

the other 2 have majority clear tricomes still


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## Renfro (Feb 27, 2019)

I bet you are getting excited for harvest!


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## diggs99 (Feb 27, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I bet you are getting excited for harvest!


I am but probably not for the normal " zomg i cant wait to smoke it" reasons

I honestly just want to get it right this first run, get to harvest at the proper time with healthy plants and decent bud. It will almost be a relief to get this first run out of the way lol

But yes, getting very excited/anxious lol


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## diggs99 (Feb 27, 2019)

Just checked trics, nothing new, the buds on this Atomic plant are so orange compared to the 3 Fruit Punch


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## Couch_Lock (Feb 27, 2019)

It's def cool you have a few strains to compare on the 1st grow. 
It will take me yrs to figure out which strains train easy and those that stress, that kinda stuff.


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## diggs99 (Feb 27, 2019)

Couch_Lock said:


> It's def cool you have a few strains to compare on the 1st grow.
> It will take me yrs to figure out which strains train easy and those that stress, that kinda stuff.


i only wish i was allowed a higher plant count lol

i would spend the next couple years finding strains i love, then id keep 4 or 6 or 8 mothers and rip sog grows non stop lol

but here we are, allowed 4, cant complain, weren't allowed any before this lol


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## bdt1981 (Feb 28, 2019)

Renfro said:


> These started 12/12 on 12/11/18 so they are about 23 days into flowering. Another 47ish to go.
> 
> Strain is Gorilla Glue #4. With this strain I manage 42 to 48 pounds.
> 
> ...


Monsters


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## bdt1981 (Feb 28, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> i only wish i was allowed a higher plant count lol
> 
> i would spend the next couple years finding strains i love, then id keep 4 or 6 or 8 mothers and rip sog grows non stop lol
> 
> ...


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## diggs99 (Feb 28, 2019)

Maybe 2 weeks from rooted clone?

Wouldn't be long until they were flipped


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## bdt1981 (Feb 28, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Maybe 2 weeks from rooted clone?
> 
> Wouldn't be long until they were flipped


I can tell u from expirence that u can pack 64 clones straight out the cloner into 5in pots on a 4x4 ebb&flo straight into flower and get about .75 oz maybe a little more per plant. Lollie pop hard asf for 3 weeks and try to keep canopy even. If u use all the same strain same pheno same size and health clones u can prob hit 1+ oz ea. I heard of someone getting 5oz per sf. I did it with like 8 diff strains on a 4x4 and was right around .75. But they were all different heights. Use a net because they will fall over from the weight.

If u veg for 2 weeks its not going to be a true sog. Js


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## Renfro (Feb 28, 2019)

When I did SoG I didn't veg. I did cut big clones and rooted them REALLY well (so you may call that veg but there were no nutes). Easily pulled 2 pounds per light / 4x4 with 48 cuts in 6" square pots.


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## myke (Feb 28, 2019)

Renfro said:


> When I did SoG I didn't veg. I did cut big clones and rooted them REALLY well (so you may call that veg but there were no nutes). Easily pulled 2 pounds per light / 4x4 with 48 cuts in 6" square pots.


6"is what a gallon?


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## Renfro (Feb 28, 2019)

myke said:


> 6"is what a gallon?


I think more like 2.5 quarts ish


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## diggs99 (Mar 1, 2019)

bdt1981 said:


> I can tell u from expirence that u can pack 64 clones straight out the cloner into 5in pots on a 4x4 ebb&flo straight into flower and get about .75 oz maybe a little more per plant. Lollie pop hard asf for 3 weeks and try to keep canopy even. If u use all the same strain same pheno same size and health clones u can prob hit 1+ oz ea. I heard of someone getting 5oz per sf. I did it with like 8 diff strains on a 4x4 and was right around .75. But they were all different heights. Use a net because they will fall over from the weight.
> 
> If u veg for 2 weeks its not going to be a true sog. Js


Good info, i wasnt really sure what my plan would be, havent done a lot of reading up on sogs yet, the reading i have done, shows the SOG as being very practical with a quick turnaround from one harvest to the next , thats some crazy yields .


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## diggs99 (Mar 1, 2019)

Renfro said:


> When I did SoG I didn't veg. I did cut big clones and rooted them REALLY well (so you may call that veg but there were no nutes). Easily pulled 2 pounds per light / 4x4 with 48 cuts in 6" square pots.


Ya this is probably more along the lines of what i would do too i would imagine.

Id do whatever all the other good SOG growers are doing, or id try lol


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## bdt1981 (Mar 1, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ya this is probably more along the lines of what i would do too i would imagine.
> 
> Id do whatever all the other good SOG growers are doing, or id try lol


As long as you stay on your clones and make sure they ready come harvest day u can harvest every 60 days. 30 days in cut half again as many cuttings as what your shooting for so u make sure to have plenty to choose from. Then on harvest day work a few extra hrs and have a new batch ready to go as soon as you pull them out.


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## bdt1981 (Mar 1, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Good info, i wasnt really sure what my plan would be, havent done a lot of reading up on sogs yet, the reading i have done, shows the SOG as being very practical with a quick turnaround from one harvest to the next , thats some crazy yields .


Imo sog is for closet type or space restricted areas.


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## Renfro (Mar 1, 2019)

So I think this round may actually yield way better than I thought. Trimmed a pound and it only took 1.5 trays to get a pound, usually takes 2 trays. The nugs are way dense like little rocks. Perhaps the finishing bulbs helped with more than just resin production. With 64 trays total I may get way closer to my 40 pound norm than I anticipated.

I'll get some pics up later, got a lot to do. Moved the plants into the flowering rooms today to start vegging them into the trellises. Excited about this round. Probably gonna do the Jacks nutrients in one room and GH in the other.


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## Renfro (Mar 1, 2019)

bdt1981 said:


> Imo sog is for closet type or space restricted areas.


A sog can be a great producer, no veg means more harvests per year.


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## diggs99 (Mar 1, 2019)

Well i dont have space restrictions, i was just under the impression clone to SOG is the fastest turnover with great yields.

What would you do instead of SOG if you were allowed 50 plants?

I want to keep 4 or 6 mothers preferably.


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## diggs99 (Mar 1, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So I think this round may actually yield way better than I thought. Trimmed a pound and it only took 1.5 trays to get a pound, usually takes 2 trays. The nugs are way dense like little rocks. Perhaps the finishing bulbs helped with more than just resin production. With 64 trays total I may get way closer to my 40 pound norm than I anticipated.
> 
> I'll get some pics up later, got a lot to do. Moved the plants into the flowering rooms today to start vegging them into the trellises. Excited about this round. Probably gonna do the Jacks nutrients in one room and GH in the other.


Nice, cant wait to see the pics. Glad the yield is looking better than expected. I cant imagine how much work you have put in this past week, between harvest, cleaning and regular maintenance to get the new batch ready, you must be exhausted lol

Jacks 321? i keep reading/seeing alot of guys using and switching to this. Its simplicity is nice.

I think im going to make the switch to DTW coco. Ive been using FFOF and love it, but our supplier/hydro store is only bring it in special order now and its gonna cost almost $60 a bag. Its 80 on amazon shipped to my door....ABSURD

so its either gonna be Canna Coco or House and Gardens Coco....still going to run with the GH flora series as we discussed


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## Renfro (Mar 1, 2019)

Right on. I have given coco some thought. then I could automate watering and not worry so much about over watering.


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## Renfro (Mar 1, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Well i dont have space restrictions, i was just under the impression clone to SOG is the fastest turnover with great yields.
> 
> What would you do instead of SOG if you were allowed 50 plants?
> 
> I want to keep 4 or 6 mothers preferably.


Well if space isn't an issue id grow a bunch like mine and harvest some really big numbers LoL

Really though a SoG is a wonderful way to go BUT running different strains under one light can make it hard to keep an even canopy. I like having them in pots so I can arrange the shorter plants to the middle where the light is most intense, sorta like a stadium. A trellis is good to hold the top colas up and keep pots from falling over.

When I grew Shiva going straight from clone into flower they ended up over 40 inches tall with big 20 - 22 gram colas. Id lollipop them at day 20 of 12/12.


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 1, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Right on. I have given coco some thought. then I could automate watering and not worry so much about over watering.


Yep theres a few bonuses to switching for sure.

Soil is nice and simple too tho, water every few days and watch the plants. But when they want to gouge the shit out of me, i have to look at changing.

This time of year, none of our gardening stores are even opened, so not alot to choose from, hydro store or amazon really.

Almost seems like with Coco automated is the only way to go, especially if running lots of plants.

Depending on my plant count, if i decide to go SOG ill automate for sure, but if im still just growing 4, ill just stick with hand watering

Im in the process of getting my ACMPR, 50 plants....ill have options then


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 1, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well if space isn't an issue id grow a bunch like mine and harvest some really big numbers LoL
> 
> Really though a SoG is a wonderful way to go BUT running different strains under one light can make it hard to keep an even canopy. I like having them in pots so I can arrange the shorter plants to the middle where the light is most intense, sorta like a stadium. A trellis is good to hold the top colas up and keep pots from falling over.
> 
> When I grew Shiva going straight from clone into flower they ended up over 40 inches tall with big 20 - 22 gram colas. Id lollipop them at day 20 of 12/12.


Correct me if im wrong here. But if i wanted to grow like you, id need so much more lighting and environment control compared to a sog wouldnt I? for potentially upwards or 40 plants . Id want 4-6 mothers for sure.

Space isnt an issue at all, as we talked about before, the new space will have minimum 10` ceilings and the foot print can be anything within 22x30.

originally i was thinking Trees like yours, with only 4 plants allowed, it seemed to make the most sense. But with potentially 50, i can just take clones of whichever mother i decide to run and SOG with no veg time.

Or am i looking at this wrong and should be considering 2 rooms still, veg/flower. grow trees and yield huge.

Do you want me to take this stuff to my thread and we can clog that one up? sorry man, your always my go to guy for asking all this stuff, before i ask others lol your journal is full of me asking and you answering lol


----------



## Renfro (Mar 1, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Correct me if im wrong here. But if i wanted to grow like you, id need so much more lighting and environment control compared to a sog wouldnt I? for potentially upwards or 40 plants . Id want 4-6 mothers for sure.


forsure, if you did it like mine but I was just getting all starry eyed thinking about having that many plants. Like 150 pound harvests lol Oh yeah baby! That would be a lot of work to harvest and trim.

Thats one area where a SoG does well, it trims fast if you lollipop and just have giant colas.



diggs99 said:


> Do you want me to take this stuff to my thread and we can clog that one up? sorry man, your always my go to guy for asking all this stuff, before i ask others lol your journal is full of me asking and you answering lol


You can chat anywhere you please brother!


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## Renfro (Mar 2, 2019)

Man I have been trying to upload pics for a while now and the site just isn't taking them...


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## diggs99 (Mar 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Man I have been trying to upload pics for a while now and the site just isn't taking them...


Ya man, RIU has been dumb with trying to post pics lately it seems.

Hows the bud doing? all dried ?


----------



## Renfro (Mar 2, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ya man, RIU has been dumb with trying to post pics lately it seems.
> 
> Hows the bud doing? all dried ?


Most of it is dry, been trimming away. Very impressed with the smoke, hits like a freight train. It was always strong and whatnot but these nugs are definitely more potent and hashier. Denser too. I am a fan of these finishing bulbs. Can't wait for next round with those bulbs at the end. I will veg them longer and make them bigger. These are gonna be good ones.


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## diggs99 (Mar 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Most of it is dry, been trimming away. Very impressed with the smoke, hits like a freight train. It was always strong and whatnot but these nugs are definitely more potent and hashier. Denser too. I am a fan of these finishing bulbs. Can't wait for next round with those bulbs at the end. I will veg them longer and make them bigger. These are gonna be good ones.


that answers my next question lol

i was wondering if you noticed any difference in resin after using the MH to finish.


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## augusto1 (Mar 2, 2019)

Very good job, I would like to see the next grow since the beguinning, thanks a lot for allowing us to be part of it.


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## Dougs Nugs (Mar 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Most of it is dry, been trimming away. Very impressed with the smoke, hits like a freight train. It was always strong and whatnot but these nugs are definitely more potent and hashier. Denser too. I am a fan of these finishing bulbs. Can't wait for next round with those bulbs at the end. I will veg them longer and make them bigger. These are gonna be good ones.


Niiice on the MH bulbs for finishing, when I used to run Blackberry Kush back in the day we stumbled across the MH phenomenon when a HPS bulb burned out the last two weeks.

I know it was mentioned in the thread but what color temp did you rock for the MH? I’m coming up on the end of my cycle and was going to do the same

Happy growing


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## Renfro (Mar 2, 2019)

augusto1 said:


> Very good job, I would like to see the next grow since the beguinning, thanks a lot for allowing us to be part of it.


I have been trying to upload some pics since yesterday. I can't seem to get an image to upload. I have rebooted me computer and all that. I see other people uploading images, I dunno... Maybe someone can try to upload a pic to this thread??

Anyways I have the next round moved in to flowering rooms from the veg room. Have them vegging in there by using the row end lights on the opposite rooms power. That way when the overhead lights in a room go off the end row lights come on. That will keep them vegging while I get them to widen out with the trellis and fill the area up. CO2 is set to stay between 750 and 1000 PPM and temps are right about 88 at the canopy. I have the humidity at 65 - 70% right now, swamp coolers are working hard lol. Feed strength is 1000 PPM.


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## Renfro (Mar 2, 2019)

Dougs Nugs said:


> I know it was mentioned in the thread but what color temp did you rock for the MH?


They are 10k MH finishing bulbs.


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## diggs99 (Mar 2, 2019)

Space cookie manifold under the cmh

Pic working?


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## myke (Mar 2, 2019)

Yup pic works my glue at 25 days


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## Renfro (Mar 2, 2019)

Yep you all are getting pics uploaded. Damn, I just tried again with no success, I have tried Chrome and IE. Neither can get an image to upload.


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## Gquebed (Mar 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> forsure, if you did it like mine but I was just getting all starry eyed thinking about having that many plants. Like 150 pound harvests lol Oh yeah baby! That would be a lot of work to harvest and trim.
> 
> Thats one area where a SoG does well, it trims fast if you lollipop and just have giant colas.
> 
> ...


I cant imagine trimming a 150 elbows. Geezuz...lol
I have trouble with 3...


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## Renfro (Mar 2, 2019)

Maybe if I reset my hughes net router... Gonna give that a try.


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## Renfro (Mar 2, 2019)

I finally got an image to upload.  Here is a nug shot from this last round.


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## Renfro (Mar 2, 2019)

Here are some pics of room A after moving plants
    

Here are some pics of room B after moving plants
    

That officially begins the next run!


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## myke (Mar 2, 2019)

Right on!
Would it not be more efficient to push all the plants together and use less lights? They look so small there.


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## Hydro4life (Mar 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I finally got an image to upload.  Here is a nug shot from this last round.
> 
> View attachment 4292947


Very nice Renfro!!!


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## Renfro (Mar 2, 2019)

myke said:


> Right on!
> Would it not be more efficient to push all the plants together and use less lights? They look so small there.


I have to train them into the trellis rigs.


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## augusto1 (Mar 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Here are some pics of room A after moving plants
> View attachment 4292948 View attachment 4292950 View attachment 4292955 View attachment 4292956
> 
> Here are some pics of room B after moving plants
> ...


Very nice, I will be here to learn how you train them to have so many branches to completely fill the trellis and to enjoy so beatiful growing . thank you


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## Renfro (Mar 2, 2019)

augusto1 said:


> Very nice, I will be here to learn how you train them to have so many branches to completely fill the trellis and to enjoy so beatiful growing . thank you


Right on. You will see it here! Basically I just keep taking branches that get tall enough past the trellis to pull them back down thru the trellis and make them go another square horizontally towards open space. Any under brush branches I try and pull straight up and find a way to give it light. As the branches go horizontally the nodes shoot up to the light and make for more branches. Basically we are done topping and we are going to make more branching by training horizontally. This stops when you start 12/12, you want the 4x4 area to be nice and filled with a nice start on the node vertical growth (thats where I didn't give them enough veg last round). Then when you flip them to 12/12 the stretch will shoot all those branches up and make nice tops.


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## Renfro (Mar 2, 2019)

I will get some more pics as I have pulled the bottom layer of trellis down and started making the plants go sideways a little, I call it pressing them. It's a little bit high stress, especially if I let them get to big before moving them into the trellis rigs. It's a LOT easier when they are smaller like this but you do have a little more energy usage with vegging them longer in the flower rooms. If they are big there tends to be a lot of broken branches, high stress training indeed but I think it bothered me more than the plants. They get over it though and most of the time the branches survive. I have taken plants in that were so tall they were already touching the top trellis thats 5 feet high, and after pressing them they pretty much filled out the 4x4 area, maybe veg a 2 or 3 days to get past the stress and then flip. Very hard to move those large plants even with a cart and the buds would get too tall sometimes but they would fall over and lay on the top trellis lol.


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## Renfro (Mar 2, 2019)

My girl got a couple Autocobs in the mail today. 3500K. We plan to use those to help some of her plants since they aren't under a light of their own.


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## diggs99 (Mar 3, 2019)

Renfro said:


> My girl got a couple Autocobs in the mail today. 3500K. We plan to use those to help some of her plants since they aren't under a light of their own.



nice pics bro

lol the new plants make that room look so big, 2 weeks ago it was the opposite, your old plants made the room look small lol


i was gonna ask, how did your girl do with her plant last time? i remember it was getting big


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## Renfro (Mar 3, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> nice pics bro
> 
> lol the new plants make that room look so big, 2 weeks ago it was the opposite, your old plants made the room look small lol
> 
> ...


Her do-si-do was just under a pound and her star dawg was just over a pound. So she averaged about a pound a plant on those 5 gallon plants.


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## Renfro (Mar 3, 2019)

Been trimming some today, here is a shot of just another tray of weed to trim lol
 

One of my girls autocobs. Pretty cool piece. They use meanwell drivers that just bolt on to the back of the heatsink. Pretty sweet design. I can see more of these headed this way in the future, I may just source the parts and build my own. I found the driver on *digikey* for 25 bucks. I figure about 15 bucks for a heatsink, another 15 for a cob, 2.50 for a chip holder. Shit I could probably build these for like 60 bucks each. Have to bust out the old soldering iron lol. I can see how guys get into building their own lights now. These are super simple to build.

(It's a bit dusty with packing material, ill blow them off with compressed air.)
  

Gave the plants a flush today and a normal 1000 PPM veg feed right after. This was their first flush. Don't want any salts building up.


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## diggs99 (Mar 3, 2019)

And here we go again....best of luck with this run man. Obv ill be following along

How many watts are those cobs? 

remind us again what strain the clones were, i cant remember.


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## Renfro (Mar 3, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> And here we go again....best of luck with this run man. Obv ill be following along
> 
> How many watts are those cobs?
> 
> remind us again what strain the clones were, i cant remember.


They are gorilla glue 4.

The autocobs run at 55 watts I believe. Perfect for spot lighting in areas that are shaded or don't get direct light from my other fixtures. Obviously don't need them yet lol.


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## diggs99 (Mar 3, 2019)

Renfro said:


> They are gorilla glue 4.
> 
> The autocobs run at 55 watts I believe. Perfect for spot lighting in areas that are shaded or don't get direct light from my other fixtures. Obviously don't need them yet lol.


ya they seem like they would be perfect for placing in shaded spots.


I'd love to grow some gg4 but they want absurd prices for seeds of that strain

I did grab a pack of gorilla zkittleZ from barneys but have since read nothing good about barneys lol


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## Renfro (Mar 3, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> ya they seem like they would be perfect for placing in shaded spots.
> 
> 
> I'd love to grow some gg4 but they want absurd prices for seeds of that strain
> ...


I grew a Barneys LSD like 10 years ago. It was alright but that was a long time ago.


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## diggs99 (Mar 3, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I grew a Barneys LSD like 10 years ago. It was alright but that was a long time ago.


Ya it was prob more of a newbie buy than the others i got. It looked good and had allstar lineage, so figured why not try it out.

Stumbled on a new barneys farm thread earlier this morning, it wasnt good lol. They will probably get tossed in the drawer for bit.


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## Renfro (Mar 3, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ya it was prob more of a newbie buy than the others i got. It looked good and had allstar lineage, so figured why not try it out.
> 
> Stumbled on a new barneys farm thread earlier this morning, it wasnt good lol. They will probably get tossed in the drawer for bit.


Thats a bummer. what problems do people have with Barneys? They going hermie or something?


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## diggs99 (Mar 3, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Thats a bummer. what problems do people have with Barneys? They going hermie or something?


Yep

herm issues
poor germination
slow growing genetics lol

ive read it all since i hit the order button lol

None of this was directly towards the gorilla zkittlez but numerous other strains.

theres 2 guys in the journal section running the gorilla zkittlez, so im gonna follow them closely, see how their grows go before i worry about popping mine.


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## Renfro (Mar 3, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Yep
> 
> herm issues
> poor germination
> ...


Man Barneys sounds like they really went downhill. Bummer about your seeds.


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## diggs99 (Mar 3, 2019)

Ya who knows, maybe the GZ are fine, hopefully the guys here have sucessful grows and it turns out good, it will give me hope atleast lol

Blueberries x chocolate diesel by useful seeds
wedding cake 

are what im deciding between now lol


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## Renfro (Mar 3, 2019)

I am excited about my wedding cake cut, she's still a little baby now but I'll be sure to get a few cuts off her and test flower her this round.


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## diggs99 (Mar 3, 2019)

Something tells me the seeds im buying are probably not the real Wedding cake, prob a cross of a cross of a cousin of a sister to cake lol

but the pics looked good and the journals i read everyone was very happy with the end result


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## dr.tomb (Mar 3, 2019)

Renfro, 

What size are your drain lines? They are 5gal ebb and flow buckets? You ever have the roots follow the watter and plug your drain line? If not what's your solution? 

I have 5gal buckets and I usually put precut reusable furnace filters (try cut to size reusable kind). Last run I had 3 pots cut off from water. The roots jammed themselves into the 1/2" hose causing a dam.

Made sure every bucket now has a bottom layer. I use straight perlite with a dash of Myke added to the mix.


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## Renfro (Mar 3, 2019)

dr.tomb said:


> Renfro,
> 
> What size are your drain lines? They are 5gal ebb and flow buckets? You ever have the roots follow the watter and plug your drain line? If not what's your solution?
> 
> ...


the black 10 gallon buckets have 1 inch lines to the drain. My girls white 5 gallon buckets have 1/2" drain lines. It's a bucket in a bucket setup, bottom bucket catches the runoff and the top bucket holds the media and has 3/8" holes in the bottom for drainage. The roots don't make it to the bottom buckets because of air pruning. Easiest way to name my setup is a top feed soiless drain to waste.


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## purpaterp (Mar 3, 2019)

Renfro said:


> the black 10 gallon buckets have 1 inch lines to the drain. My girls white 5 gallon buckets have 1/2" drain lines. It's a bucket in a bucket setup, bottom bucket catches the runoff and the top bucket holds the media and has 3/8" holes in the bottom for drainage. The roots don't make it to the bottom buckets because of air pruning. Easiest way to name my setup is a top feed soiless drain to waste.


Awesome setup man really cool, que that foo fighters song, “there goes my hero” lol


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## Renfro (Mar 3, 2019)

So I ordered an Apera pH pen from amazon for like 75 bucks as a backup pen because it looked like an awesome deal, 0.01 accuracy, glass probe. They sent me a more expensive model than what I ordered. They sent the one with a long "spear" probe that can be inserted into food or soil etc... pretty bad ass, $250 pen for only 75 bucks. Works fine for liquids but I can also use it for soil! May have to go order a couple more LoL

*I ordered this one:* https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ENFOIQE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

*Got this one:* https://aperainst.com/ph60s-premium-spear-ph-meter-pocket-tester-for-solid-semi-solid-sample-ph-measurement-cheese-meat-sushi-rice-soil-canning


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## purpaterp (Mar 3, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So I ordered an Apera pH pen from amazon for like 75 bucks as a backup pen because it looked like an awesome deal, 0.01 accuracy, glass probe. They sent me a more expensive model than what I ordered. They sent the one with a long "spear" probe that can be inserted into food or soil etc... pretty bad ass, $250 pen for only 75 bucks. Works fine for liquids but I can also use it for soil! May have to go order a couple more LoL
> 
> *I ordered this one:* https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ENFOIQE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> *Got this one:* https://aperainst.com/ph60s-premium-spear-ph-meter-pocket-tester-for-solid-semi-solid-sample-ph-measurement-cheese-meat-sushi-rice-soil-canning


That’s awesome man every once in a while the consumer wins one lol when I ordered my nutes and coco they showed as delivered but weren’t here. I called amazon they apologized and sent new orders. The next day a guy from down the street brings the first order. I called amazon and the just told me I could keep it for the inconvenience. I got two huge bags of coco two sets of gh flora trio and two bottles of Cali magic and two times all for the price of one. Couldn’t believe it.


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## Renfro (Mar 5, 2019)

So I was feeding at a pH of 6.5 and started seeing a few signs of the pH being off. I tested the media and they were at 5.2 in the soil after a watering at 6.5. So I test watered a plant at 7.5 and retested the soil about 15 hours later and it was at 5.7 so it's coming up. Odd that the soil went down so low, it came out the bag at 5.8. Anyways, I am glad I have pH soil probes handy, and now I have three lol.


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## Renfro (Mar 8, 2019)

So 7 days after moving plants into the flowering rooms to veg into the trellises:

  

for comparison this was 7 days ago:

 

did a little training

  

Got my jacks in the mail so I started running that in room B today, still using the GH in room A.


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## diggs99 (Mar 8, 2019)

That's a crazy 7 day difference


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## Thundercat (Mar 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So 7 days after moving plants into the flowering rooms to veg into the trellises:
> 
> View attachment 4296483 View attachment 4296484
> 
> ...



Awesome progression buddy! Thanks for the side by side shots . How long are they staying in veg for you think?


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## Renfro (Mar 8, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> How long are they staying in veg for you think?


Probably another 7 days. We shall see how they are looking. Once I get the full 4x4 area populated with branches I like to give them a few days to shoot those side nodes upwards. The branches start making more branches and it just builds exponentially. Shorting the last few days of veg makes a very big difference in the final outcome.



diggs99 said:


> That's a crazy 7 day difference


Right? And to think that some people think adding CO2 doesn't do anything. The plants really explode when moved into the flowering rooms with CO2 and warmer temps and mega lighting.


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## diggs99 (Mar 8, 2019)

Whats your ppm when they are this size?

Do you use anything for root development? I know you mentioned amor si before, you using that this run again?


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## Renfro (Mar 8, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Whats your ppm when they are this size?
> 
> Do you use anything for root development? I know you mentioned amor si before, you using that this run again?


Right now I am running 1020 PPM on the GH and the Jacks when mixed came to 910 PPM

I am still using the Si on the GH room. Nothing is different there so I can get a good idea about how the Jacks is doing. Room A is sorta a control, for now at least.

I wanna go as basic as I can with the Jacks and see how it does. Pretty stoked about it.


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## diggs99 (Mar 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Right now I am running 1020 PPM on the GH and the Jacks when mixed came to 910 PPM
> 
> I am still using the Si on the GH room. Nothing is different there so I can get a good idea about how the Jacks is doing. Room A is sorta a control, for now at least.
> 
> I wanna go as basic as I can with the Jacks and see how it does. Pretty stoked about it.


Yep, especially rooms your size, i assume nutes are a decent sized expense every month/grow

I am thinking along same lines, i used the floranova bloom only last grow, it was simple to use and results were decent, but from what ive been reading, the jacks/megacrop options are much cheaper and are putting out similar or better results than the nova.

I got the process started for my acmpr,I got the script for 50 plants , so im going to want to cut down costs on nutes as well

SOGs are coming lol


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## Renfro (Mar 8, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Yep, especially rooms your size, i assume nutes are a decent sized expense every month/grow
> 
> I am thinking along same lines, i used the floranova bloom only last grow, it was simple to use and results were decent, but from what ive been reading, the jacks/megacrop options are much cheaper and are putting out similar or better results than the nova.
> 
> ...


I did the math in Excel and a full run with GH costs me $998 and a run with Jacks would be about $300 ish from my guesstimate. Of course I have to run it and prove that, plus I am sure some numbers will change a little if I make adjustments, use MPK or whatnot.

Also these calcs are based on one constant that isn't really constant and thats a watering frequency of every other day. I figure that it kinda averages out that way over the run and it's good enough for cost estimation purposes.


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## diggs99 (Mar 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I did the math in Excel and a full run with GH costs me $998 and a run with Jacks would be about $300 ish from my guesstimate. Of course I have to run it and prove that, plus I am sure some numbers will change a little if I make adjustments, use MPK or whatnot.
> 
> Also these calcs are based on one constant that isn't really constant and thats a watering frequency of every other day. I figure that it kinda averages out that way over the run and it's good enough for cost estimation purposes.
> 
> View attachment 4296549


Ya if you can cut cost by 60% and still see similar results , you have to do it.

Did you buy any new lights for this run to try out?

I remember you mentioning cobs for your girl, did you ever end up getting an led for your room?


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## Renfro (Mar 8, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ya if you can cut cost by 60% and still see similar results , you have to do it.
> 
> Did you buy any new lights for this run to try out?
> 
> I remember you mentioning cobs for your girl, did you ever end up getting an led for your room?


Well thats a long story...

We have two of the auto cobs that we plan to use over her plants once they get bigger.

I have a 630 watt DE CMH bulb coming that I can put in one of my 1kW HPS ballasts on 60% so I wanna try that somewhere to see how it compares to the 1kW HPS. 400 watts is a big savings lol.

I also have some special CMH bulbs coming that I am going to test. They aren't on the market yet but supposedly have a better spectrum. So I will figure out where I want to try those. Thing is though, they are 1000 watters, and I wonder if that will be overkill?

The other COB light that I have, the 480 watter, is going to be in my breeding and testing tent.

I wanna learn as much as I can about these new lighting techs. I wish to maintain quality and yields and save as much energy as possible in the meanwhile, at least where the cost of conversion would not make for a long payoff. For example if merely changing my bulbs from HPS to CMH can get the job done at a 400 watt per plant savings, that would make for a savings of 1728 kWh of power each month while reducing the cooling load on the AC unit significantly saving even more energy there. You gotta change bulbs anyways so the only difference there is the CMH bulbs cost a few bucks more. Now if a conversion requires a different ballast then the cost goes way up and it would take a many years to find any actual savings.


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## diggs99 (Mar 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well thats a long story...
> 
> We have two of the auto cobs that we plan to use over her plants once they get bigger.
> 
> ...



No doubt bro, i love the idea of led/cob efficiency but not if its gonna take me years to pay off lol

As you say tho, if you can run a good controlled side by side and see for yourself with the CMH bulbs and ballasts dialed down, then it may well be worth making the switch.

Ill be honest, ive had this CMH running for about 10 days, id fill a room with these things, they are very powerful lights for sure. I am still running mine without exhaust in the tent and temps still havent hit 80f in there.


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## Renfro (Mar 8, 2019)

I had a error in my spreadsheet for the Jacks cost, I am high so shit happens lol. It's actually estimated at $138 for a run. Way less.


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## diggs99 (Mar 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I had a error in my spreadsheet for the Jacks cost, I am high so shit happens lol. It's actually estimated at $138 for a run. Way less.



well being high paid off there lol

got yourself a deal lol


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## Renfro (Mar 8, 2019)

So I got the *Growers Choice 630w DE CMH 3K-R* bulb today. I tried it on a Phantom DE HPS ballast at 60% and it won't strike an arc. I will have to wait until later to try it on a Sunsystem or Nanolux ballast. Wish me luck lol.


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## Bubblin (Mar 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So I got the *Growers Choice 630w DE CMH 3K-R* bulb today. I tried it on a Phantom DE HPS ballast at 60% and it won't strike an arc. I will have to wait until later to try it on a Sunsystem or Nanolux ballast. Wish me luck lol.


It's prolly the 60% power limit that's stopping it.


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## Renfro (Mar 8, 2019)

Bubblin said:


> It's prolly the 60% power limit that's stopping it.


Well it's a 630 watt bulb and the ballast is a 1000 watter. They tell you to run it like that on the sellers page. They also say not to use in a nanolux so I guess that leaves my sunsystems.

_"Recommended operation in a 1000w ballast dimming it down to 600W. Never run them at or on the 1000W settingor overdrive setting. These bulbs are not compatible with Gavita 6/750w or 1000W DE Complete Fixtures. Not recommended for use with Nanolux dimmable ballasts."_


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## Bubblin (Mar 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well it's a 630 watt bulb and the ballast is a 1000 watter. They tell you to run it like that on the sellers page. They also say not to use in a nanolux so I guess that leaves my sunsystems.
> 
> _"Recommended operation in a 1000w ballast dimming it down to 600W. Never run them at or on the 1000W settingor overdrive setting. These bulbs are not compatible with Gavita 6/750w or 1000W DE Complete Fixtures. Not recommended for use with Nanolux dimmable ballasts."_


ahh ic.


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## berrybongwell (Mar 8, 2019)

Hell yeah, nice journal man. Looking like you are consistently pulling great numbers. Cheers! Subbed.


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## Renfro (Mar 9, 2019)

So the 630 watt DE CMH bulb WILL run on a Sunsystem ballast. I measured the light with my crappy meter and it's very close in output to the 1000 watt DE HPS running at 1200 watts! That said the HPS bulb has a few runs on it. Still, thats a lot of lumens per watt. Too bad it will only work in 3 of my 12 ballasts though...


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## diggs99 (Mar 9, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So the 630 watt DE CMH bulb WILL run on a Sunsystem ballast. I measured the light with my crappy meter and it's very close in output to the 1000 watt DE HPS running at 1200 watts! That said the HPS bulb has a few runs on it. Still, thats a lot of lumens per watt. Too bad it will only work in 3 of my 12 ballasts though...


Good and bad there

Nice to see they work in the Sunsystem but thats only 3/12, that dont help you much in considering the switch.

you could always switch out half the room, only need to buy 3 ballasts for now , or just eat the cost and buy 9 more ballasts, lol that sounds expensive


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## Renfro (Mar 9, 2019)

Yeah it's a bummer. I was hoping only 3 nanolux ballasts would have to go.


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## Dougs Nugs (Mar 9, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> No doubt bro, i love the idea of led/cob efficiency but not if its gonna take me years to pay off lol
> 
> As you say tho, if you can run a good controlled side by side and see for yourself with the CMH bulbs and ballasts dialed down, then it may well be worth making the switch.
> 
> Ill be honest, ive had this CMH running for about 10 days, id fill a room with these things, they are very powerful lights for sure. I am still running mine without exhaust in the tent and temps still havent hit 80f in there.


People say switch to LED!
Years to pay off initial investment? Anyone weigh in on this? LEDS are awesome but what about 20-30 1k lighters?


diggs99 said:


> No doubt bro, i love the idea of led/cob efficiency but not if its gonna take me years to pay off lol
> 
> As you say tho, if you can run a good controlled side by side and see for yourself with the CMH bulbs and ballasts dialed down, then it may well be worth making the switch.
> 
> Ill be honest, ive had this CMH running for about 10 days, id fill a room with these things, they are very powerful lights for sure. I am still running mine without exhaust in the tent and temps still havent hit 80f in there.


hmm very interesting. I run a sealed room the winter and I can avoid AC all day, put me on where are you getting these and what are your dimensions etc?

Doug


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## Dougs Nugs (Mar 9, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well it's a 630 watt bulb and the ballast is a 1000 watter. They tell you to run it like that on the sellers page. They also say not to use in a nanolux so I guess that leaves my sunsystems.
> 
> _"Recommended operation in a 1000w ballast dimming it down to 600W. Never run them at or on the 1000W settingor overdrive setting. These bulbs are not compatible with Gavita 6/750w or 1000W DE Complete Fixtures. Not recommended for use with Nanolux dimmable ballasts."_


Straight shit on a digital stick.

Waste of engineers and time. You will never get that time back. Think about it....never waste time. Jesus

I was going to edit it but I think it’s pretty “ on brand” for RIU


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## diggs99 (Mar 9, 2019)

Dougs Nugs said:


> People say switch to LED!
> Years to pay off initial investment? Anyone weigh in on this? LEDS are awesome but what about 20-30 1k lighters?
> 
> hmm very interesting. I run a sealed room the winter and I can avoid AC all day, put me on where are you getting these and what are your dimensions etc?
> ...


Ya , i was probably exaggerating a little with the " years" comment, my garden is only small. 

Im growing in 4x4 tents right now.

The light i was referring to is the 315 cmhs by vivosun, Im loving mine so far


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## Renfro (Mar 9, 2019)

Dougs Nugs said:


> People say switch to LED!
> Years to pay off initial investment? Anyone weigh in on this? LEDS are awesome but what about 20-30 1k lighters?


Thing is there is a big difference between switching to LED and starting out with LED. When you already have the equipment and the room is dialed it will be harder to justify the investment as opposed to starting with LED in the first place.

If you change bulbs just once a year, that adds up. Then you add in the power savings including the AC not having to run and it's pretty smart. Still, when you gotta pay 3 times as much to get a light it's pretty hard pill to swallow.

The other issue some have is with LED you actually have to add heat, so mixing it in with some HID is good. CMH puts out a shit ton less heat than HPS. More lumens and less heat. Enough CMH and LED together would make a really good setup.


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## Bubblin (Mar 9, 2019)

Renfro said:


> If you change bulbs just once a year, that adds up. Then you add in the power savings including the AC not having to run and it's pretty smart. Still, when you gotta pay 3 times as much to get a light it's pretty hard pill to swallow.
> 
> The other issue some have is with LED you actually have to add heat, so mixing it in with some HID is good. CMH puts out a shit ton less heat than HPS. More lumens and less heat. Enough CMH and LED together would make a really good setup.


You can toss together a 4 board qb132 light for like 200 bucks, n Imo a cmh + qb/cob system would be badass, _phuking frost factory_.


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## Renfro (Mar 9, 2019)

Bubblin said:


> You can toss together a 4 board qb132 light for like 200 bucks, n Imo a cmh + qb/cob system would be badass, _phuking frost factory_.


Yes that would be badass! All that UV from the CMH... However, as great as that is for home growers, licensed grows do need UL, CSA, ETL listed products for their grows. Insurance and whatnot requires it.

I believe that when the price point for a quality off the shelf 1000w replacement gets down to say $600 you will see the beginning of the end for new HPS sales. At that price it would pay for the extra cost in a year by saving a couple bulb changes and power savings. More people would be inclined to change out their 10+ lights when the payoff is short term.

I can't wait for those days and I am very excited about the future of indoor cultivation. Right now CMH is my favorite tech, it's price, light quality, bulb life, low heat... all good stuff there.

I would love to have all my row end lights changed from 400 watt HPS to LED and overhead lights changed from 1kW DE HPS to 600W DE CMH. My 4 ton AC units would only have to do light work then lol.


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## Bubblin (Mar 9, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yes that would be badass! All that UV from the CMH... However, as great as that is for home growers, licensed grows do need UL, CSA, ETL listed products for their grows. Insurance and whatnot requires it.


If it's actually for insurance reasons yes, but UL listing means jack in reality.

I could literally wrap my cock in 18ga wire and since the wire exceeds the electrical requirements of my dick, it'd get a UL stamp.

Tho my gf may still need to be grounded, friction/static n such. #safesex


Renfro said:


> I can't wait for those days and I am very excited about the future of indoor cultivation. Right now CMH is my favorite tech, it's price, light quality, bulb life, low heat... all good stuff there


ayy same, cmh is sexy af.
Just wish there was efficient 50w cmh models, I'd run like 6 - 8 per plant.


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## Renfro (Mar 9, 2019)

As a former electrician I agree somewhat on the UL thing but insurance does require it in a commercial setting.

50w CMH? Man that would be a lot of bulbs to change. May I ask why you want smaller lights? For that use I'd go with auto cobs.


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## Bubblin (Mar 9, 2019)

Renfro said:


> As a former electrician I agree somewhat on the UL thing but insurance does require it in a commercial setting.
> 
> 50w CMH? Man that would be a lot of bulbs to change. May I ask why you want smaller lights? For that use I'd go with auto cobs.


For coverage, I prefer coverage over a balls out single light source.
I've got cobs and luv emm, but the coolers = expensive n heavy. Digging qb's atm, with some T5 action for uv.


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## augusto1 (Mar 9, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I would love to have all my row end lights changed from 400 watt HPS to LED and overhead lights changed from 1kW DE HPS to 600W DE CMH. My 4 ton AC units would only have to do light work then lol.


A 600W DE CMH is good to replace a 1KW DE HPS ? will you get the same yields?
Thanks In Advance.


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## Renfro (Mar 9, 2019)

augusto1 said:


> A 600W DE CMH is good to replace a 1KW DE HPS ? will you get the same yields?
> Thanks In Advance.


I am testing that this run, stay tuned! Room A is running the 630 on row 1 light A. It's not a perfect test because there is HPS lighting in the room but it should give me a good idea if it's close or not.

I hope the yields are as good as the 1000 watt DE HPS because I would love to save the 400 watts and also reduce the energy required to cool the heat output.

My room A has 3 sunsystem ballasts and 3 nanolux so I would only have to change out 3 ballasts in that room to run all CMH overhead. I'd be using 3600 watts overhead instead of 6000.

Honestly I think I could run the sunsystem ballasts with a splitter, set to 1200 watts. I could in theory run two 630 cmh bulbs on one ballast. So I wouldn't have to actually replace the nanolux ballasts. Gonna have to test this theory huh? So many thing to do. Something to try next run should this bulb yield well.

Another benefit from the change to CMH from HPS is CMH puts out some good UV and thats awesome for resin production as I have seen this last round with the 10k finishing bulbs. So I wouldn't have to worry about changing bulbs for the last 10 - 14 days.


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## Renfro (Mar 9, 2019)

So I did some more training today, I got some shots of the aftermath for ya all

        

Here is a shot of the 600 watt CMH next to a 1000 watt HPS on 1200 watt setting. CMH is on the right/closer.


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## myke (Mar 9, 2019)

Grow ‘em BIG!


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## diggs99 (Mar 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So I did some more training today, I got some shots of the aftermath for ya all
> 
> View attachment 4297460 View attachment 4297461 View attachment 4297462 View attachment 4297467 View attachment 4297469 View attachment 4297471 View attachment 4297474 View attachment 4297478
> 
> ...


They are sprawling out nice. What are the dimensions of the rooms?

That 600 looks so much brighter than the 1k, crazy


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## Renfro (Mar 10, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> They are sprawling out nice. What are the dimensions of the rooms?
> 
> That 600 looks so much brighter than the 1k, crazy


The rooms are about 20.5 x 20 ish. The trellis rigs are 4 wide, 8 long and 5 high.


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## diggs99 (Mar 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> The rooms are about 20.5 x 20 ish. The trellis rigs are 4 wide, 8 long and 5 high.


Seem like nice size, your running 6 per room then obv?

Were gonna need to revisit my earlier questions about my future room. Plant count has changed, plans have changed lol

Im gonna need some help maximizing the space and count , Moms and SOGS seem are what im gravitating towards.


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## Renfro (Mar 10, 2019)

There are 6 of mine in there (what the rooms were designed for) and some smaller plants that are my girls, we will just find a place to let them be so we can run them, but they won't be getting ideal light or anything.

Whats your count and space?


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## diggs99 (Mar 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> There are 6 of mine in there (what the rooms were designed for) and some smaller plants that are my girls, we will just find a place to let them be so we can run them, but they won't be getting ideal light or anything.
> 
> Whats your count and space?


50 count

Current space to work with is 16 x 8 , will be using this room for the rest of this year.

New space will be ready by end of this year or early next.


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## Renfro (Mar 10, 2019)

Well for a no veg sog one 4x4 flood and drain tray would hold 48 in a 7x7 grid minus 1 for the tray fittings.

If you wanna grow them bigger you can veg them and use less per 4x4 area. Like you could do a 4x8 tray with up to 96 or less as you veg them bigger. How many will fit just depends on how big you want them.

You could use the trays as a hydro setup or just use them to collect runoff and pipe it to a floor drain.

In a 16 x 8 area I would probably put two 4x8 trays in there. If done right that could pull around 8 pounds a run with 4 x 1000 watt HPS. Just for a baseline.

If you wanna fill the whole room to the brim I would suggest a bucket in a bucket system using 5 gallon buckets, they would work like my 10 gallon buckets and you could connect them all to a floor drain. Then you could run 8 lights and probably pull around 16 pounds but there would be VERY little room to walk so going with coco and auto watering system would be a good idea.


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## Renfro (Mar 10, 2019)

If you go with 8 lights and use 1kW HPS you will probably need about 4 tons of AC. If you use 600 watt CMH lights you will need way less, like 1.5 - 2 tons.


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## diggs99 (Mar 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well for a no veg sog one 4x4 flood and drain tray would hold 48 in a 7x7 grid minus 1 for the tray fittings.
> 
> If you wanna grow them bigger you can veg them and use less per 4x4 area. Like you could do a 4x8 tray with up to 96 or less as you veg them bigger. How many will fit just depends on how big you want them.
> 
> ...



I like the idea of not filling the room to the brim, i like having a little space to work, seems your first idea about the 2 4x8 tables and 4kw seems like a good place to start. I dont mind a little veg time or none at all, whatever works best fo fill the space with the plants im allowed to grow.

I plan to keep 4-6 mothers if i find some good ones. so ideally i would be running 42/44 plants , maybe 2 tables with 20-22 each, running 1 month apart, harvest every month? 

Ill use my 600w hps and 2x 315s because i already have them, would you just buy a couple 1ks to go with them for now? im really liking the CMH route.


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## Renfro (Mar 10, 2019)

Id use the smaller lights for the mothers and use either a 1kW HPS or 600 watt CMH over a 4x4 footprint.

I am personally against perpetual in one room. I like to change condition like humidity, co2, light levels, feed during the cycle so having a perpetual makes some of that impossible or more difficult. Thats just me tho. For example I like to reduce light intensity, heat, co2 and feed ppm as the run finishes, I think this provides denser buds and better quality. As a flowering run starts I use higher humidity than I do when it's budding. You wouldn't be able to veg in there so you would be stuck with a no veg sog and thats not gonna fill your room at all, maybe one 4x4.


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## diggs99 (Mar 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Id use the smaller lights for the mothers and use either a 1kW HPS or 600 watt CMH over a 4x4 footprint.
> 
> I am personally against perpetual in one room. I like to change condition like humidity, co2, light levels, feed during the cycle so having a perpetual makes some of that impossible or more difficult. Thats just me tho. For example I like to reduce light intensity, heat, co2 and feed ppm as the run finishes, I think this provides denser buds and better quality. As a flowering run starts I use higher humidity than I do when it's budding. You wouldn't be able to veg in there so you would be stuck with a no veg sog and thats not gonna fill your room at all, maybe one 4x4.


I see what your saying, i guess if i wanted to do perpetual monthly harvest i could just throw up a wall and treat the space as 2 rooms. But then im having to worry about enviromental control x 2 as well.

i think it may be easier and more practical to just run the 2 tables at same time with very little or no veg.

Maybe i could use the 600w dialed down for the moms, use the 2 x 315s i have for a 4x4 section and grab 3 more 630 cmhs for the other 3 sections. 

I am still undecided on watering method, DTW in coco is what i have been researching most, seems pretty straight forward and nothing too elaborate to setup. How would you water 2 tables?


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## Renfro (Mar 10, 2019)

Thing is you would want to veg the plants a little if you want that count to fill up that area. With a no veg you can only work one 4x4 tray and one light using that plant count.

If I was running tables/sog I would honestly use flood and drain. Some trays you can get a cover for, or you can make one, drill holes for net pots, toss one of the coco root mats in the bottom of the tray, put the lid on and have your cuttings go into the tray thru holes in the lid using net pots and expanded clay pellets. This way the roots can go all around under the lid and just fill that area up nice. You end up with a nice thick layer of roots on the coco mat.

When I did mine they ended up big so I built my reservoir with 2x12's and pond liner. Put a couple angle iron cross braces for the tray to sit on. Make it a little longer than the tray so you have a 6" access on one end. You can have the pumps there. Run a circulation pump, this will just keep nutes mixed, a timed flood pump. Now all you gotta do is keep the res filled and proper.

My reservoirs had about 10 gallons per inch of depth per 4x4 area, so you could run 10" deep in the res and have 100 gallons per 4x4 area. Very low maint, easiest system I ever used and perfect for a sog. With 1kW HPS and co2 I usually used about 4 - 5 gallons per day per light. You can bolt up a trellis rig to the wood reservoir too, you will want those. lol


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## diggs99 (Mar 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Thing is you would want to veg the plants a little if you want that count to fill up that area. With a no veg you can only work one 4x4 tray and one light using that plant count.
> 
> If I was running tables/sog I would honestly use flood and drain. Some trays you can get a cover for, or you can make one, drill holes for net pots, toss one of the coco root mats in the bottom of the tray, put the lid on and have your cuttings go into the tray thru holes in the lid using net pots and expanded clay pellets. This way the roots can go all around under the lid and just fill that area up nice. You end up with a nice thick layer of roots on the coco mat.
> 
> ...


From clone, how long do you think i would need to veg 40 plants to fill a 4x 16 foot print? 

I have looked at the ebb and flow system, looks good once its all setup and running, i also like drain to waste in coco, using flood trays to catch runoff and drain to waste. i have looked into few different methods for auto drip watering. I will have to look further into the flood and drain, see if i can understand the setup, if its easier on my head, ill go that route lol.

Ya i plan to build my tables with heavy lumber regardless of which route i take, ill prob build them with 2x6s or 2x8s and use joist hangers for support, strong enough for a deck, should be strong enough for tables. Where will i put the reservoir in this setup? under the tables? ceilings are 8` in the space, cant build tables up too high without worrying about distance to lights.


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## diggs99 (Mar 10, 2019)

Maybe the simplest way for me at the moment and would cost me very little and still yield decently.

run 3 tents

1 mother tent
2 other tents with 20-22 plants each...hybrid sog?

very little veg time to fill 4x4 with 20 plants i assume.


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## Renfro (Mar 10, 2019)

Yeah you could do that too.


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## diggs99 (Mar 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah you could do that too.


Seems like the easy way out tho lol

Like not the best use of my count. I had it in my head to save my tents for drying rooms

I always enjoy changing things up, so i think ill build some tables to fill the 4x16 space, look more into how i want to setup watering and go from there.

I can buy 3 x the 945w cmh from sunstream for 1000.00 shipped...they can be dialed down as well. Not sure how good they are, but they are def best bang for wattage buck

Cooling will be my biggest issue. Will have to look into smaller mini split or other a/c options.
Would you think it would be beneficial to run the room sealed with co2?


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## Renfro (Mar 10, 2019)

So today I did a little defoliation. There were a lot of big fan leaves blocking nodes from shooting up. Here is a before after shot

  

And some other after shots

      

I will slide another trellis down to about 8" above the bottom trellis and finish the spread training on that trellis because these plants are pressed pretty hard and the stems are getting sorta thick on some branches. Don't wanna start breaking limbs although they usually survive and do well.


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## Renfro (Mar 10, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Seems like the easy way out tho lol
> 
> Like not the best use of my count. I had it in my head to save my tents for drying rooms
> 
> ...


Sounds like a good idea, I always run CO2 and it does help.

I like to build my tables as low as possible so I have the most room for plants, lights and space between plants and lights.

With those lights you can cover a 5x5 really well so you may want larger trays.

Minisplits are the way to go because you can get ones that will run when it's cold outside (low ambient) and they also only work as hard as they have to instead of being on/off like most AC units. Also make sure it has a restart after mains outage feature because if the power goes out and back on you don't want the plants to bake.


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## diggs99 (Mar 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Sounds like a good idea, I always run CO2 and it does help.
> 
> I like to build my tables as low as possible so I have the most room for plants, lights and space between plants and lights.
> 
> ...


So with this setup and knowing the space i have left to work with, where would you place a reservoir ? as you say,tables should be kept on the lower side,so underneath prob isnt an option?
Even if i went 5x16 id still have 3 feet space between the wall and plants.


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## diggs99 (Mar 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So today I did a little defoliation. There were a lot of big fan leaves blocking nodes from shooting up. Here is a before after shot
> 
> View attachment 4297884 View attachment 4297891
> 
> ...


Man they are spreading out quick, noticeable difference


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## Renfro (Mar 10, 2019)

Thats why I used the 2x12 reservoir with pond liner. Massive capacity and low profile.


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## diggs99 (Mar 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Thats why I used the 2x12 reservoir with pond liner. Massive capacity and low profile.


Ohhhh, now i get ya, you build your tables just high enough than you can then use the 2x12 with pond liner reservoir under it? that right?
I have good access to a couple different floor drains to connect runoff . So placing it underneath would be perfect.

you got any pics of your old setup?


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## Renfro (Mar 10, 2019)

The 2x12 with pond liner is the reservoir and you set the table on that. Use some angle for cross braces so the tray wont sag. I prefer the plastic trays, white ones.


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## Renfro (Mar 10, 2019)

No pics of that setup, that was like 12 years ago in Missouri.


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## diggs99 (Mar 10, 2019)

Ok, i think you have helped me enough for one day, i got a base plan and a good idea of what i want , thanks as usual man. always appreciated. 

Im gonna buy material tomorrow for running auto drip to coco, will also grab some 2x12 on the way home. Not sure where ill find pond liners around here this time of year, but ya never know.

I seen a guy the other day who made flood tables and used Ice and water shield, thats the stuff used on roofs for water proofing.

None of this can be put into place until the last 2 are done finishing up flowering and i can remove the tents, then i can move everything around and set it up properly.


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## gkay723 (Mar 11, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I did the math in Excel and a full run with GH costs me $998 and a run with Jacks would be about $300 ish from my guesstimate. Of course I have to run it and prove that, plus I am sure some numbers will change a little if I make adjustments, use MPK or whatnot.
> 
> Also these calcs are based on one constant that isn't really constant and thats a watering frequency of every other day. I figure that it kinda averages out that way over the run and it's good enough for cost estimation purposes.
> 
> View attachment 4296549


Do you use any PK boosters? Im growing in soil and i have to raise my GMB quite abit higher with my additives to get to 1000ppm. Also, do you have any experince with running a pk booster like monster bloom starting from week 3 in a 12 week strain?


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## Renfro (Mar 11, 2019)

I boost the PK by adding more GH Bloom and less GH Grow. With Jacks I will just Monopotassium Phosphate to do that.


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## gkay723 (Mar 11, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I boost the PK by adding more GH Bloom and less GH Grow. With Jacks I will just Monopotassium Phosphate to do that.


Ah Thanks. Just wondering if im wasting my money running monster bloom. Usually start it half dose week 3 then full strength week 4 for a 8 week strain. But i feel like running it so early for a 12 week strain is a bad idea.


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## Renfro (Mar 11, 2019)

Yeah that is a bit early.

Bloom boosters are basically repackaged monopotassium phosphate (MPK).


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## gkay723 (Mar 11, 2019)

Do you have any tips on achieving 3pounds a light with 10 gallon soil, under 1000w gavitas and co2? Best i've gotten so far has been a g a watt in a 7 gallon. SOG style. Cheers for the reply in the AM btw.


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## Renfro (Mar 11, 2019)

gkay723 said:


> Do you have any tips on achieving 3pounds a light with 10 gallon soil, under 1000w gavitas and co2?


Well I added side lighting and thats how I get large yields. I still hover around a gram per watt when I veg them long enough (didn't do that last round) but I have more watts. lol Other than that genetics has a lot to do with it. Some strains yield really well.


gkay723 said:


> Cheers for the reply in the AM btw.


I am usually up at nite lol


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## Dougs Nugs (Mar 12, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ohhhh, now i get ya, you build your tables just high enough than you can then use the 2x12 with pond liner reservoir under it? that right?
> I have good access to a couple different floor drains to connect runoff . So placing it underneath would be perfect.
> 
> you got any pics of your old setup?


I built these 2x4 tables with 2x4’s and 4x4 fence posts & casters recently.

I like the separate 2x4 tables so you can remove bottoms etc if needed. I run SOG as well and I love have the 4x4 area able to be split in the middle to work in and also run two separate flavors if need be.
I hope it helps!
I’d add some simple 2x2’s for trellising ( staple gun is useful )

Happy growing


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## Renfro (Mar 12, 2019)

Dougs Nugs said:


> I built these 2x4 tables with 2x4’s and 4x4 fence posts & casters recently.
> 
> I like the separate 2x4 tables so you can remove bottoms etc if needed. I run SOG as well and I love have the 4x4 area able to be split in the middle to work in and also run two separate flavors if need be.
> I hope it helps!
> ...


Nice build.


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## Renfro (Mar 12, 2019)

So today I flushed the plants before their feeding. Don't want any salt buildups. Plants are doing well, you can hardly tell I defoliated them yesterday.

The room with Jacks appears to be doing well, no signs of problems so far.

The plant with the 600 watt CMH over it seems to be keeping up with the others. Pretty excited about this.

Here are some pics after the flush. You can see I pulled another trellis down to finish out their training.


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## thenasty1 (Mar 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> The plant with the 600 watt CMH over it seems to be keeping up with the others. Pretty excited about this.


is that the de that was giving you a hard time a few pages ago?


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## diggs99 (Mar 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So today I flushed the plants before their feeding. Don't want any salt buildups. Plants are doing well, you can hardly tell I defoliated them yesterday.
> 
> The room with Jacks appears to be doing well, no signs of problems so far.
> 
> ...


They are looking good bro

Its amazing how fast they rebound and fire out new growth after defol


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## Renfro (Mar 12, 2019)

thenasty1 said:


> is that the de that was giving you a hard time a few pages ago?


No this is a 600 watt CMH Growers Choice bulb that I put in one of the Sunsystem 1kW ballasts running at 60%. Goal is to do with 600 watts what I have been doing with 1000 watts.

The other 1000 watt CMH nanolux lights are in the veg room.

Also did a light foliar feed today for shits and giggles.


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## thenasty1 (Mar 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> No this is a 600 watt CMH Growers Choice bulb that I put in one of the Sunsystem 1kW ballasts running at 60%. Goal is to do with 600 watts what I have been doing with 1000 watts.


how long has it been running? ive read that chm bulbs have much shorter lifespans when used with regular ballasts. ive been considering switching half my flowering room to cmh to see what the fuss is about, would be nice if i could try it out without switching my ballasts out too


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## diggs99 (Mar 12, 2019)

I think im gonna order a bag of megacrop to try. Was debating between MC and Jacks, MC is a little easier for me to get

Has your girl put her plants in yet? whats she growing this time?


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## Renfro (Mar 12, 2019)

thenasty1 said:


> how long has it been running? ive read that chm bulbs have much shorter lifespans when used with regular ballasts. ive been considering switching half my flowering room to cmh to see what the fuss is about, would be nice if i could try it out without switching my ballasts out too


The bulb has been in since saturday. It is designed to be used with HPS ballasts. https://growershouse.com/growers-choice-630w-de-double-ended-cmh-ceramic-mh-lamp-3k-r-red-enhanced

They run a lot cooler, more wattage is being made into light instead of heat. Great spectrum with UV so I won't need to change to a finishing bulb at the end for extra resin production.


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## Renfro (Mar 12, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> I think im gonna order a bag of megacrop to try. Was debating between MC and Jacks, MC is a little easier for me to get
> 
> Has your girl put her plants in yet? whats she growing this time?


She has a couple plants in there, blue buckets this time, same setup with the bucket dolly. She has one star dawg and one durban poison. The star dawg doesn't like being monstercropped, shows signs of a deficiency, we will see how it does. Last run it wasn't monster cropped and it did great.

I am not familiar with the megacrop, do you use calcium nitrate and epsom salt with it like Jacks 3-2-1?


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## diggs99 (Mar 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> She has a couple plants in there, blue buckets this time, same setup with the bucket dolly. She has one star dawg and one durban poison. The star dawg doesn't like being monstercropped, shows signs of a deficiency, we will see how it does. Last run it wasn't monster cropped and it did great.
> 
> I am not familiar with the megacrop, do you use calcium nitrate and epsom salt with it like Jacks 3-2-1?



The guy im mimicking is using calimagic and amor si with megacrop as his base.

The growers over in that thread are getting good results with it, its a simple 1 part, so thats always nice. couple additives and done.


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## thenasty1 (Mar 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> The bulb has been in since saturday. It is designed to be used with HPS ballasts. https://growershouse.com/growers-choice-630w-de-double-ended-cmh-ceramic-mh-lamp-3k-r-red-enhanced
> 
> They run a lot cooler, more wattage is being made into light instead of heat. Great spectrum with UV so I won't need to change to a finishing bulb at the end for extra resin production.


ive seen those before, didnt realize that they could work with (some) normal ballasts. looks like im pulling the trigger on this experiment too, thanks for the heads up


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## Renfro (Mar 12, 2019)

thenasty1 said:


> ive seen those before, didnt realize that they could work with (some) normal ballasts. looks like im pulling the trigger on this experiment too, thanks for the heads up


Yeah they didn't work on my Phantom ballasts, and they tell you not to use them in a Nanolux so that left my Sunsystem ballasts. Next experiment is to get another bulb and try using a splitter to run 2 of them on one sunsystem ballast cranked to 1200 watts.


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## Renfro (Mar 12, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> The guy im mimicking is using calimagic and amor si with megacrop as his base.
> 
> The growers over in that thread are getting good results with it, its a simple 1 part, so thats always nice. couple additives and done.


The thing I think I will like with Jacks is the ability to tailor the NPK ratio. I'll have to figure it out because I like to drop that Nitrogen in flower and ramp up the P and K.


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## thenasty1 (Mar 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah they didn't work on my Phantom ballasts, and they tell you not to use them in a Nanolux so that left my Sunsystem ballasts. Next experiment is to get another bulb and try using a splitter to run 2 of them on one sunsystem ballast cranked to 1200 watts.


damn, half my room is phantoms. other half is gavitas, they say those should work. what happened when you tried to run them in phantoms?


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## diggs99 (Mar 12, 2019)

Hey,

if your building a room tomorrow, choice is panda film or mold resistant drywall painted

what are you choosing?


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## Renfro (Mar 12, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> mold resistant drywall painted


definitely this ^^^

Thats what my rooms are now. Just be sure to gap the drywall up off the floor about 3/4" with spacers cut out of 1x lumber.


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## Renfro (Mar 12, 2019)

thenasty1 said:


> damn, half my room is phantoms. other half is gavitas, they say those should work. what happened when you tried to run them in phantoms?


They wouldn't strike an arc.


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## diggs99 (Mar 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> definitely this ^^^
> 
> Thats what my rooms are now. Just be sure to gap the drywall up off the floor about 3/4" with spacers cut out of 1x lumber.


Ya I always use a scrap piece of 3/4 plywood for spacer when I'm hanging drywall to keep it off the floor

Going to get started in there soon


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## diggs99 (Mar 12, 2019)

did you snap any pics of your finished product from last run?

or poof and gone lol


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## Renfro (Mar 13, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> did you snap any pics of your finished product from last run?
> 
> or poof and gone lol


I put a pic up about 12 days ago of a pound sack, here it is, but yeah it's gone lol.

 

Been feeling like shit lately, backs bothering me and I have a cold.  Oh well...


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## myke (Mar 14, 2019)

So how many days/weeks was that in flower?


----------



## Renfro (Mar 14, 2019)

myke said:


> So how many days/weeks was that in flower?


70, I harvested when I had mostly milky and some amber trichomes. The second room went 73 days.


----------



## myke (Mar 14, 2019)

Ok thanks good to know. I’m at day 41 with the same strain or at least I think it’s the same. Can make a plan now.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 14, 2019)

myke said:


> Ok thanks good to know. I’m at day 41 with the same strain or at least I think it’s the same. Can make a plan now.


Different phenotypes may vary a little and of course the environment effects things too.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 14, 2019)

So as promised more veg shots, plants are getting wider. Just a little more 
    

Also a shot of when they first moved into the rooms for comparison
 

A shot of my Wedding Cake and Triple Nova test plants


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 14, 2019)

They are growing nice

Crazy difference since they went in the room.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 14, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> They are growing nice
> 
> Crazy difference since they went in the room.


Yeah amazing what a difference a few weeks makes. Now for the tough part, making the right call on when to flip. I am thinking 3 or 4 more days.


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 14, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah amazing what a difference a few weeks makes. Now for the tough part, making the right call on when to flip. I am thinking 3 or 4 more days.



Ya I guess for you days = lbs 

Flip them too early and the yield may suffer as you said happened last run.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 14, 2019)

Yeah this is about where flipped last run so more veg is needed. I wanna make this run epic! lol In truth, I am excited to see what the 600 watt CMH does this run, that plant is keeping up with the others, so it's not slacking in veg.


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 14, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah this is about where flipped last run so more veg is needed. I wanna make this run epic! lol In truth, I am excited to see what the 600 watt CMH does this run, that plant is keeping up with the others, so it's not slacking in veg.


Ya it would be quite something if you see no loss on yield or quality going from 1k to 600, that would be huge savings in your garden lol


----------



## Renfro (Mar 14, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ya it would be quite something if you see no loss on yield or quality going from 1k to 600, that would be huge savings in your garden lol


Yeah I might even buy more sunsystem ballasts if that is the case. Thats 1728 kWh in savings per month not including savings on running the AC so hard. I figure the savings would pay for a ballast per month so in 9 months i would be paid in full on the investment, sans bulbs but I need to replace bulbs after this run anyways.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 17, 2019)

So I got a little gift in the mail today. Some bulbs to test, that aren't on the market yet. They are 1kW DE CMH, they work with HPS ballasts. They don't have any UV block in them so they have plenty of UV (hopefully not too much lol). They sent two 4k bulbs and two 3k bulbs. I popped the 3k bulbs in room A row 2 and we will see how they do. I was told not to dim them so if they get too bright for the plants as they get taller I may have to change them out.

I think room B will go to 12/12 tomorrow and room A a day or two later. I'll get some pics tomorrow and post them.

Gonna have to repot some of the odd ball plants into larger pots or I am afraid they will need water 2 or 3 times a day, get root bound and probably fall over with all the top heaviness.


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 17, 2019)

I'm about to install the second 315 cmh in my tent

Running both 3k and 4K in flower, hopefully the plants like it

It will be interesting to see the results from your testing


----------



## Renfro (Mar 17, 2019)

Here are some pics, beginning of day 17 of veg since I moved them.

Room A (You can see the 1kW CMH bulbs in the middle row.)
    

Room B (A little bigger than room A, wonder if they like the Jacks nutes??)
Gonna give this room it's first 12 hours of darkness tonight.
  

Wedding Cake and Triple Nova


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 17, 2019)

Man those cmh bulbs look bright lol


The explosion in growth both of these rooms are about to expierence is gonna be insane.

Going to be fun to see next weeks pics


----------



## hempisphere (Mar 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I remember BOG (Bushy Old Grower) from the early 2000's from overgrow.com. He sent me some beans from australia, bogglegum was one of those. Good guy, great beans.


OMG yes, the overgrow crew back in the day. That brings back a memory or two.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 17, 2019)

hempisphere said:


> OMG yes, the overgrow crew back in the day. That brings back a memory or two.


Remember Wally Duck and his ducksfoot strain?


----------



## Renfro (Mar 17, 2019)

Well room A just started it's first 12 hours of darkness! Yay! Can't wait to watch them stretch. I hope they don't get too tall LoL


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 17, 2019)

Nice

do you change anything before the flip?
temps or rh? co2?

or do your rooms stay the same regulated environment from start to finish?


----------



## Renfro (Mar 17, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Nice
> 
> do you change anything before the flip?
> temps or rh? co2?
> ...


I keep veg humidity until they start to form buds. Everything is still the same for now.

Here is the mix I plan to use in room A with the GH.

I will use the B52 like every other barrel I mix, until it runs out. I don't even know if it actually does anything lol. Room B is gonna get the same treatment. You think I should bother with the Armor Si in room B?

Room B I am using the Jacks so I will be developing that feed as I go, here is my starting point tho:
 
Those gram figures are probably a little off because I am pre mixing a concentrate with 100 grams per every 1000 mL of h2o. When I measure the nutes I am just moving the decimal over one place and thats not exact because adding the powder to the H2O does increase volume. So in reality those gram figures are best interperted as x10 mL of the resulting concentrate. So 4.32 grams would really be 43.2 mL of the concentrate. Hope that makes sense. The PPM values are calculated, that said they come extremely close, within a few PPM.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 17, 2019)

Tested soil pH with my new Apera meter, fucking spot on!

 

I just love this meter, super accurate and reads very fast, less waiting.


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 18, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Tested soil pH with my new Apera meter, fucking spot on!
> 
> View attachment 4302342
> 
> I just love this meter, super accurate and reads very fast, less waiting.


Thats a probe meter is it?


----------



## Renfro (Mar 18, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Thats a probe meter is it?


Yeah, Apera calls it a "spear probe", thats the one amazon sent me, PH-60S when I ordered the regular one, the PH-60. I paid 80 and got the way more expensive probe on it, seen this model going for like 250. It still measures fluids just fine too.


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 18, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah, Apera calls it a "spear probe", thats the one amazon sent me, PH-60S when I ordered the regular one, the PH-60. I paid 80 and got the way more expensive probe on it, seen this model going for like 250. It still measures fluids just fine too.



Oh this is the one they sent wrong but in a good way lol

Nice.

I have a cheapie probe meter, i dont trust it at all , but its no apera, it says wet or dry for soil check haha


----------



## Renfro (Mar 19, 2019)

So the plant that is under the 600 watt CMH drinks a LOT slower, I only have to water it every other time I water the ones under the other lights. It does seem to be keeping up with th eother plants as far as growth. Odd.


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I keep veg humidity until they start to form buds. Everything is still the same for now.
> 
> Here is the mix I plan to use in room A with the GH.
> View attachment 4302174
> ...


What do i need to divide these numbers by to get the ML per Gallon?

I have all the same GH line as you( minus the b52), im gonna mimick your exact feeding schedule on these space cookies once i flip them.

We talked about this before, but i cant find where


----------



## Renfro (Mar 20, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> What do i need to divide these numbers by to get the ML per Gallon?
> 
> I have all the same GH line as you( minus the b52), im gonna mimick your exact feeding schedule on these space cookies once i flip them.
> 
> We talked about this before, but i cant find where


You can divide them by 30, I use a 30 gallon mix barrel.

So I was at the grow store today and I snagged a Truncheon on sale because I was bored killing time while waiting on the lady to shop at the beauty store and I shouldn't be shopping when I am bored... lol It's pretty cool, just another tool to have.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 20, 2019)

Just a few shots of room B 2 days in to 12/12.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 20, 2019)

Here is some shots of room A right as the lights came on:

   

It looks like the plant under the 600 watt CMH might be starting to fall behind a little bit in the stretch:


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 20, 2019)

I always appreciate just how clean your rooms are kept. Nice job man

I have hard enough time keeping my tents clean and they are very small in comparison lol


----------



## Renfro (Mar 20, 2019)

I think it's actually easier to clean when you can walk around and use a broom or vacuum.


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I think it's actually easier to clean when you can walk around and use a broom or vacuum.


I often tell myself that too, I'd have an easier time if I had more space

Reality is, I probably wouldn't lol

Not much space to move around and clean in a tent tho, your def right about that.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 20, 2019)

Well my girl helps a lot too, shes a real clean freak. I love it! lol


----------



## Renfro (Mar 20, 2019)

So I am going back to my roots of growing, I ordered a flood tray thats supposed to fit in my 2x4 tent. I plan to use a remote reservoir (outside the tent) and setup a flood and drain setup for the breeding project. This will make it a lot easier on the daily chores, just keep the res topped off and the pH right.


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 21, 2019)

i just ordered my 4x8 table and 80g res couple of days ago.

im looking forward to trying that growing method.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 21, 2019)

It sure is easy, just gotta have a reliable flood timer or you end up with dead plants.


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 21, 2019)

Renfro said:


> It sure is easy, just gotta have a reliable flood timer or you end up with dead plants.


Is there a way to set it up so a guy could use a backup timer in case the original fails?

Ya that would be a nightmare, come home to a table full of a dead plants, sounds terrible lol


----------



## Renfro (Mar 21, 2019)

Well if your pumps are powerful enough that one pump can out run the other dead pump draining back to the res you can use 2 pumps and 2 timers, one on each end of the tray. Thats what I used to do with my 4x8's back in the day. Don't remember the pump sizes tho. It may not get to full depth but it will keep them ok until you find the problem.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 21, 2019)

To keep the timers synched you probably wanna use digital programmable ones with a backup battery in them. Intermatic used to make a nice little one that was square, plugin timer. They were reliable. So many timers aren't and that defeats the purpose of a timer. lol


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 21, 2019)

Ya i got one of those unreliable timers sitting in a drawer somewhere, should just throw it out 

The 2 pump/timer suggestion sounds good, I will def want some sort of backup, for piece of mind if nothing else lol

I already have 2 pumps like the link below, not sure if they are any good for this setup or not. They are 400 gph

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07JYYXRVP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Renfro (Mar 21, 2019)

They should work.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 21, 2019)

So I had to take the 1000 watt UV CMH bulbs out of room A row 2, that row was getting shiny leaves and new growth didn't look so hot. Even the edges of the other rows were effected. So normal HPS bulbs are back in there now.


----------



## beacher (Mar 21, 2019)

Think it was too much for them? How far away was it?


----------



## Renfro (Mar 21, 2019)

beacher said:


> Think it was too much for them? How far away was it?


Ill have to measure when the lights come on in there but it's not close, even the rows next to the middle row were effected on the close side so the UV was just too much lol. A plant that was between rows is half and half.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 21, 2019)

Here is some shots of room B 3 days into 12/12


----------



## madra (Mar 21, 2019)

You must REALLY like getting high


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 22, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Here is some shots of room B 3 days into 12/12
> 
> View attachment 4304263 View attachment 4304264 View attachment 4304265 View attachment 4304266 View attachment 4304267


They really starting to fill out now, looking good bud.


----------



## beacher (Mar 22, 2019)

Looking great man!


----------



## Renfro (Mar 23, 2019)

Some pictures of room A at 5 days:

   

The middle row that was fried a little by the UV bulbs is getting normal new growth, stunted them a few inches:


----------



## cocoherd (Mar 23, 2019)

nice journal, will be keen to see this finish,subbed for sure.


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## Renfro (Mar 23, 2019)

cocoherd said:


> nice journal, will be keen to see this finish,subbed for sure.


Right on man, thanks! Glad to have you along for the ride.


----------



## augusto1 (Mar 23, 2019)

Is the netting you are using the ones that are sell on the hydrponic store?

Thank you in advance.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 23, 2019)

I hate the string netting, it's stretches and sags, plus it sheds fibers into your sticky buds. I use hortitrellis, it's plastic, strong stuff.

https://www.amazon.com/Botanicare-Horti-Trellis-4-by-100-Feet/dp/B005AXV4CA

There are other brands of plastic trellis, one is green. They are good too. Just avoid the stuff thats not plastic.


----------



## purpaterp (Mar 23, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Some pictures of room A at 5 days:
> 
> View attachment 4305223 View attachment 4305224 View attachment 4305226
> 
> ...


Looking good!


----------



## Renfro (Mar 23, 2019)

purpaterp said:


> Looking good!


Thanks!


----------



## Renfro (Mar 24, 2019)

Room B 6 days into 12/12:


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 24, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Room B 6 days into 12/12:
> 
> View attachment 4306049 View attachment 4306053


Crazy how fast they are filling out that room.

Looking good bud


----------



## purpaterp (Mar 24, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Room B 6 days into 12/12:
> 
> View attachment 4306049 View attachment 4306053


Beast!


----------



## Mellow old School (Mar 25, 2019)

As always a pleasure to drop in *Renfro...*


----------



## Renfro (Mar 25, 2019)

So here are a few shots of room A at 7 days into 12/12:

   

The first two pics show the 1kW HPS (left) vs 630W CMH (right) row. The CMH is slacking behind a little. I am tempted to change the bulb out to the HPS but part of me wants to see what the CMH bulb can do thru flowering.

The middle row (#2) is getting past it's shock from the 1kW CMH UV bulbs, glad I didn't run them any longer, poor plants.

I don't have any pics from room B right now, lights are off. They really seem to like the jacks nutrients, I will get some pics when the lights are on but they are growing really good.


----------



## purpaterp (Mar 26, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So here are a few shots of room A at 7 days into 12/12:
> 
> View attachment 4306868 View attachment 4306869 View attachment 4306870
> 
> ...


Renfro how tall are you? I’m making you a cape and don’t want it to be too long.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 26, 2019)

purpaterp said:


> Renfro how tall are you? I’m making you a cape and don’t want it to be too long.


Haha. I am 10 foot tall and bullet proof! j/k


----------



## Renfro (Mar 26, 2019)

Here are some shots of room B at 8 days of 12/12:


----------



## Renfro (Mar 26, 2019)

Here is my planned feed data for room B:


----------



## Greenterra (Mar 26, 2019)

My dream garden in nutshell!sry to barg in on your journal. Love to get dialed in like that one day. Good luck with your goal I'll be watching. Good job


----------



## Renfro (Mar 26, 2019)

Greenterra said:


> My dream garden in nutshell!sry to barg in on your journal. Love to get dialed in like that one day. Good luck with your goal I'll be watching. Good job


Good to have you along for the ride!


----------



## Renfro (Mar 26, 2019)

So I got a couple new CMH bulbs to test, 1kW DE 3000k, runs on HPS ballast, this time with the UV block. Gonna put them in room A row two, as it has recovered from the UV bulbs and we shall see how they do. Pics to follow later.


----------



## growingforfun (Mar 26, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So I got a couple new CMH bulbs to test, 1kW DE 3000k, runs on HPS ballast, this time with the UV block. Gonna put them in room A row two, as it has recovered from the UV bulbs and we shall see how they do. Pics to follow later.


Please explain more on this. This bulb runs on a gavita?
If it works on a gavita I'd be very interested in how it does on the 600 watt setting.. summer is coming


----------



## Renfro (Mar 26, 2019)

growingforfun said:


> Please explain more on this. This bulb runs on a gavita?
> If it works on a gavita I'd be very interested in how it does on the 600 watt setting.. summer is coming


They aren't on the market yet. @GoBrah can enlighten you more. Pretty sure he said they will work with gavita when they come out.

Well this batch didn't work, just tried them. The same ballasts as I used before with the UV version, both set at 1000 watt setting. The one on the sunsystem ballast didn't strike an arc at all. The one on the nanolux ballast ran for a couple minutes and just stopped. I tried letting it cool and firing it up again but it did nothing. I put the HPS bulbs back in the ballasts and they are working fine.


----------



## GoBrah (Mar 26, 2019)

growingforfun said:


> Please explain more on this. This bulb runs on a gavita?
> If it works on a gavita I'd be very interested in how it does on the 600 watt setting.. summer is coming



I will talk with one GAVITA's ballast supplier we have worked with, we matched before but since GAVITA has multiple ballast suppliers i need make sure which one we have done matching.


----------



## GoBrah (Mar 26, 2019)

growingforfun said:


> Please explain more on this. This bulb runs on a gavita?
> If it works on a gavita I'd be very interested in how it does on the 600 watt setting.. summer is coming


you using E series or Classic?


----------



## growingforfun (Mar 26, 2019)

GoBrah said:


> you using E series or Classic?


E ballasts. Honestly not gonna jump on it after hearing they have firing issues and a 100$+ price tag


----------



## GoBrah (Mar 26, 2019)

growingforfun said:


> E ballasts. Honestly not gonna jump on it after hearing they have firing issues and a 100$+ price tag


surely the firing issue will be sorted out before it goes on market, but about the price i dont think there is any chance to bring a 1000W CMH down below $100


----------



## rob333 (Mar 26, 2019)

Renfro said:


> These started 12/12 on 12/11/18 so they are about 23 days into flowering. Another 47ish to go.
> 
> Strain is Gorilla Glue #4. With this strain I manage 42 to 48 pounds.
> 
> ...


40 lb no a few pounds yes


----------



## Renfro (Mar 26, 2019)

growingforfun said:


> E ballasts. Honestly not gonna jump on it after hearing they have firing issues and a 100$+ price tag


They haven't even hit the market, still under development.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 26, 2019)

rob333 said:


> 40 lb no a few pounds yes


lol I got close last run, and it was flipped too soon. This one should be 40+. Done it many times before so your doubts are unwarranted. Glad to have you drop by, watch this run and see what ya think!


----------



## Renfro (Mar 27, 2019)

So I have an AC problem in room A, it's not cooling as it should so backup ventilation kicked in and high temp cutoff on the side lighting is doing it's job so no harm done. Turned the CO2 generators down to 750 PPM to reduce the heat generated between ventilation cycles.

So during the daylight I am gonna pump down the unit and weigh out the charge to see if it's low. Then hopefully just weigh in a proper charge and get it running. I can leak detect with a nitrogen pressure test between runs.

Always good to be keeping a close eye on things and detecting issues and fixing them fast. I am thankful that I have the ventilation setup and high temp cutoff for the side lighting because it's not a super major issue especially since this room runs at night when it's cooler outside.


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 27, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So I have an AC problem in room A, it's not cooling as it should so backup ventilation kicked in and high temp cutoff on the side lighting is doing it's job so no harm done. Turned the CO2 generators down to 750 PPM to reduce the heat generated between ventilation cycles.
> 
> So during the daylight I am gonna pump down the unit and weigh out the charge to see if it's low. Then hopefully just weigh in a proper charge and get it running. I can leak detect with a nitrogen pressure test between runs.
> 
> Always good to be keeping a close eye on things and detecting issues and fixing them fast. I am thankful that I have the ventilation setup and high temp cutoff for the side lighting because it's not a super major issue especially since this room runs at night when it's cooler outside.


Im not sure if i got smarter reading that, or realized how lost i would be trying to keep a room like yours dialed in lol


----------



## AzraelAngel07 (Mar 27, 2019)

OzCocoLoco said:


> 48 pounds from 12 plants ?


I can get 5-10 off one plant in a 5x5 area with 1000w dual end


----------



## growingforfun (Mar 27, 2019)

GoBrah said:


> surely the firing issue will be sorted out before it goes on market, but about the price i dont think there is any chance to bring a 1000W CMH down below $100


Ya 100 for a working bulb is fine... that's also not what I said tho


----------



## rob333 (Mar 27, 2019)

Renfro said:


> lol I got close last run, and it was flipped too soon. This one should be 40+. Done it many times before so your doubts are unwarranted. Glad to have you drop by, watch this run and see what ya think!


mate i have seen 40 lb grows that aint even close good luck tho peace


----------



## rob333 (Mar 27, 2019)

AzraelAngel07 said:


> I can get 5-10 off one plant in a 5x5 area with 1000w dual end View attachment 4307511


your saying you get 5-10 p ? now that's bullshit if i have ever heard it


----------



## AzraelAngel07 (Mar 27, 2019)

rob333 said:


> your saying you get 5-10 p ? now that's bullshit if i have ever heard it


It's a 32 gallon dwc and the plant is on a five-by-five scrog say what you want I get what I get


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 27, 2019)

Lol oh rob , your posts always bring a smile


----------



## AzraelAngel07 (Mar 27, 2019)

rob333 said:


> your saying you get 5-10 p ? now that's bullshit if i have ever heard it


Before i grew this way i was making 5 lbs on a 6x3 tray https://www.instagram.com/p/BbyPDoCFZp-/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=9n7zn82xl9tg


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 27, 2019)

5-10 pounds off one plant?

Got pics of flowering? Would love to see what kind of beast that must be lol


----------



## AzraelAngel07 (Mar 27, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> 5-10 pounds off one plant?
> 
> Got pics of flowering? Would love to see what kind of beast that must be lol


I'll be uploading this current grow but I have some photos on my Instagram https://www.instagram.com/p/BbyPDoCFZp-/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=9n7zn82xl9tg


----------



## AzraelAngel07 (Mar 27, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> 5-10 pounds off one plant?
> 
> Got pics of flowering? Would love to see what kind of beast that must be lol


If people know that they can get 15 pounds off a plant outdoor why is it unthinkable to grow a huge plant indoor get 5 or 10 depending on breed of course


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 27, 2019)

AzraelAngel07 said:


> If people know that they can get 15 pounds off a plant outdoor why is it unthinkable to grow a huge plant indoor get 5 or 10 depending on breed of course


I am new to the game, so I'm not sure what's possible or unthinkable when it comes to plant sizes and yields 

I was sincerely asking to see a plant that size


----------



## AzraelAngel07 (Mar 27, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> I am new to the game, so I'm not sure what's possible or unthinkable when it comes to plant sizes and yields
> 
> I was sincerely asking to see a plant that size


I keep you up to date with photos of this crop my neighbor is a photographer so maybe I can get good photos at the end but ill use my cell till then


----------



## growingforfun (Mar 27, 2019)

AzraelAngel07 said:


> I keep you up to date with photos of this crop my neighbor is a photographer so maybe I can get good photos at the end but ill use my cell till then


5-10 p using a single 1kw hps.... hmmm yep, checks out. No lie here.


----------



## AzraelAngel07 (Mar 27, 2019)




----------



## growingforfun (Mar 27, 2019)

AzraelAngel07 said:


> View attachment 4307534


How cute... my veg plants have thicker trunks... 
Yep, that's deffo gonna be a 10 pounder. 
Great job pulling 4.5 GPW with a hps. Hydro is amazing.


----------



## AzraelAngel07 (Mar 27, 2019)

growingforfun said:


> How cute... my veg plants have thicker trunks...
> Yep, that's deffo gonna be a 10 pounder.
> Great job pulling 4.5 GPW with a hps. Hydro is amazing.


I got 2.5 the last time


growingforfun said:


> How cute... my veg plants have thicker trunks...
> Yep, that's deffo gonna be a 10 pounder.
> Great job pulling 4.5 GPW with a hps. Hydro is amazing.


This is under HPS because I had the veg under it it's kind of hard to push a 32 gallon dwc with a fully trained plant through a 4ft door


----------



## rob333 (Mar 27, 2019)

AzraelAngel07 said:


> If people know that they can get 15 pounds off a plant outdoor why is it unthinkable to grow a huge plant indoor get 5 or 10 depending on breed of course


you are talking to a grower mate and ill tell u right now 2 1000w hps would not push that much out maybe in your wet dreams


----------



## rob333 (Mar 27, 2019)

AzraelAngel07 said:


> If people know that they can get 15 pounds off a plant outdoor why is it unthinkable to grow a huge plant indoor get 5 or 10 depending on breed of course


good try tho


----------



## AzraelAngel07 (Mar 27, 2019)

rob333 said:


> good try tho


I could care less what you think or believe


----------



## growingforfun (Mar 27, 2019)

rob333 said:


> you are talking to a grower mate and ill tell u right now 2 1000w hps would not push that much out maybe in your wet dreams


Wait so he's using 2x 1000 hps? He just said he got 2.5 last time an that's pretty average/low for 2kw..


----------



## rob333 (Mar 27, 2019)

AzraelAngel07 said:


> I could care less what you think or believe


its impossible plain and simple so why the lies ?


----------



## rob333 (Mar 27, 2019)

growingforfun said:


> Wait so he's using 2x 1000 hps? He just said he got 2.5 last time an that's pretty average/low for 2kw..


he started off by saying 5-10 not saying the 2.5


----------



## rob333 (Mar 27, 2019)

and we got the op say 40lb


----------



## rob333 (Mar 27, 2019)

growingforfun said:


> Wait so he's using 2x 1000 hps? He just said he got 2.5 last time an that's pretty average/low for 2kw..


if he said 2-3 to start off with i would not be here now lol


----------



## myke (Mar 27, 2019)

rob333 said:


> and we got the op say 40lb


20K watts of light,do the math.About a gram a watt.


----------



## AzraelAngel07 (Mar 27, 2019)

rob333 said:


> you are talking to a grower mate and ill tell u right now 2 1000w hps would not push that much out maybe in your wet dreams





rob333 said:


> he started off by saying 5-10 not saying the 2.5


https://www.instagram.com/p/BnXJXB8ApMD/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=pbwmeumn372h I got 2.5 off this plant it had no scrog and had nute lock out for a second because my RO unit went out and michigan water is very toxic also it wasn't even half the size of the plant that I have now


----------



## AzraelAngel07 (Mar 27, 2019)

myke said:


> 20K watts of light,do the math.About a gram a watt.


I got a little over 5 lbs off this with old style ballast and lightshttps://www.instagram.com/p/BbyPDoCFZp-/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=a93a439vp5as


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 27, 2019)

Op is growing 6 massive 5x5 trellised trees under 10,000 watts of DE HPS and utilizing side lighting 

6 plants per room

2 rooms x 9600 watts in each room

hes growing with damn near 20,000 watts of DE HPS, im not sure why you think his numbers are so way off. He knew last crop would yield less cause he flipped early, so he never got 40lbs as the title says, but he still got close, not like he only pulled 10lbs when he claimed 40 lol

Now to the other guy claiming 5lbs or 10lbs off 1000 watts of hps, thats unbelievable, like g/w absurd ...unless i read that completely wrong lol


----------



## AzraelAngel07 (Mar 27, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Op is growing 6 massive 5x5 trellised trees under 10,000 watts of DE HPS and utilizing side lighting
> 
> 6 plants per room
> 
> ...


Unlike the many here I'm not going to say it's not possible because I've done what was told was not possible seems like people here want to bicker and tell people they're wrong more than learn or figure anything out


----------



## AzraelAngel07 (Mar 27, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Op is growing 6 massive 5x5 trellised trees under 10,000 watts of DE HPS and utilizing side lighting
> 
> 6 plants per room
> 
> ...


And I know for a fact I'll get 5 lbs off of it I put up the 10 because I'm not exactly sure how much bigger it'll get than what I thought and it's a dual end so it has a 5 by 5 print unlike the old style that basically only covered a 3 by 3 area unless you were in a tent


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 27, 2019)

AzraelAngel07 said:


> Unlike the many here I'm not going to say it's not possible because I've done what was told was not possible seems like people here want to bicker and tell people they're wrong more than learn or figure anything out



Ya im not gonna call anyone a liar, i just stated it was unbelievable, lol, like outside the normal range of things unbelievable, which is why you will always have people be skeptical and question claims like that.


----------



## thumper60 (Mar 27, 2019)

rob333 said:


> mate i have seen 40 lb grows that aint even close good luck tho peace


I agree I run 12 plants in a 20-30 green house. plants are 10-14 tall I pull 20-25 lbs DRY!!


----------



## thumper60 (Mar 27, 2019)

AzraelAngel07 said:


> View attachment 4307534


that's funny a penny!!heres a pic of of a plant that gave up 3 lbs DRY


----------



## Renfro (Mar 27, 2019)

Wow I take a day off here to get my AC running properly and look whats happened.

OK, I understand some people don't believe and thats their right. But why not just watch and see for yourself. If you still don't believe thats all good, no pounds out of my harvest or sweat off my back.

I figured this would happen and I am not bothered by doubters as I know what I have done in the past. lots of light, optimized rooms, 4 pounds a plant IS doable and thats not including larf of about 4 pounds and the other plants I have in there.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 27, 2019)

Anyways, the AC is running great, charge was about 60 ounces and it needs 152 ounces. Got a slow leak somewhere, last recharge was 10 months ago.


----------



## rob333 (Mar 27, 2019)

thumper60 said:


> that's funny a penny!!heres a pic of of a plant that gave up 3 lbs DRYView attachment 4307581


https://www.rollitup.org/t/canna-land-pt-1.979690/ 16 p from this outdoor run


----------



## rob333 (Mar 27, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Op is growing 6 massive 5x5 trellised trees under 10,000 watts of DE HPS and utilizing side lighting
> 
> 6 plants per room
> 
> ...


i agree the op would come close to maybe 40 lb more close to 25-30 range but 40 lb could be done but hard i have seen 6 600w come in round 33-36 so i have my doubts they were massive football size buds kinds tasted bad 5-10 lb off a 1000 w tho nope even a duel would be pushing it


----------



## growingforfun (Mar 27, 2019)

AzraelAngel07 said:


> I'm gonna push it


Your posts make me sad. Please make your own thread so we arnt subjected to you


----------



## Renfro (Mar 27, 2019)

AzraelAngel07 said:


> I'm gonna push it


lol


----------



## growingforfun (Mar 27, 2019)

AzraelAngel07 said:


> I'm gonna push it


My wife saw my post and told me not to talk shit. So I showed her your photo. She burst out laughing and has questions. 
First, where are the leaves?
Second, are those buds?
Third, is this guy for real?


----------



## growingforfun (Mar 27, 2019)

AzraelAngel07 said:


> If you don't know why I did this you don't know how to grow and I don't need to explain it to you keep laughing


We know why you did it. Obviously you did it because you get 10lbs per 1000 watts. Your a pure genius.


----------



## Thundercat (Mar 27, 2019)

Omg this all had me cracking up!! Fucking kids these days.


----------



## mr. childs (Mar 27, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Some pictures of room A at 5 days:
> 
> View attachment 4305223 View attachment 4305224 View attachment 4305226
> 
> ...


imagine if you had picked up the 4ft pure uv bulbs...


----------



## Renfro (Mar 28, 2019)

So I have some pics of room A from yesterday evening:
   

That plant under the 600 watt CMH is definitely lagging behind. 

Here are some shots of room A just after the flip at 5 am:

   

I gave them a flush to prevent salt buildups and followed with a feed. So far so good with the Jacks. Threw a little MPK in the mix in room B.

Here is a shot of some of the oddball plants I am testing:

My girls Durban Poison on the left in the white bucket, a Lemon Skunk on the right, she's a biggun...

 

Here is the Wedding Cake on the left and the Triple Nova on the right, she's a squatty body... She may have to be raised up some to get any light as the gorilla glues keep growing.


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 28, 2019)

bout a pound bro lol







for real tho, they filling out nice


----------



## purpaterp (Mar 28, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Wow I take a day off here to get my AC running properly and look whats happened.
> 
> OK, I understand some people don't believe and thats their right. But why not just watch and see for yourself. If you still don't believe thats all good, no pounds out of my harvest or sweat off my back.
> 
> I figured this would happen and I am not bothered by doubters as I know what I have done in the past. lots of light, optimized rooms, 4 pounds a plant IS doable and thats not including larf of about 4 pounds and the other plants I have in there.


Show me the ways of the force obi wan. Seriously tho looking great man I really can’t wait to see what you get. Renfro your cape is super close to done.


----------



## purpaterp (Mar 28, 2019)

AzraelAngel07 said:


> And I know for a fact I'll get 5 lbs off of it I put up the 10 because I'm not exactly sure how much bigger it'll get than what I thought and it's a dual end so it has a 5 by 5 print unlike the old style that basically only covered a 3 by 3 area unless you were in a tent


I am making you a jizz bib as soon as I get done with Renfros cape


----------



## gkay723 (Mar 29, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I keep veg humidity until they start to form buds. Everything is still the same for now.
> 
> Here is the mix I plan to use in room A with the GH.
> View attachment 4302174
> ...


Hey Renfro, what else are you adding to bring your ppm up so high with such low base nutes? Trying to dial in my formula but kind of struggling with over doing Bloom nutes or too much micro/grow while in flower.


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 29, 2019)

This is what he posted a few pages back

its his entire feeding schedule


----------



## Renfro (Mar 29, 2019)

gkay723 said:


> Hey Renfro, what else are you adding to bring your ppm up so high with such low base nutes? Trying to dial in my formula but kind of struggling with over doing Bloom nutes or too much micro/grow while in flower.


Here is what I am adding to my RO water (mL/gal) starting PPM 4


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 29, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Here is what I am adding to my RO water (mL/gal) starting PPM 4
> 
> View attachment 4308524


Where on that chart do you begin tapering down N and increasing your PK?

Or am i reading that wrong? lol


----------



## Renfro (Mar 29, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Where on that chart do you begin tapering down N and increasing your PK?
> 
> Or am i reading that wrong? lol


This round I am just upping the bloom and not dropping the N but changing the ratio.


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 29, 2019)

Renfro said:


> This round I am just upping the bloom and not dropping the N but changing the ratio.


K makes sense

Just wanted to make sure i understood it lol


----------



## Renfro (Mar 29, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> K makes sense
> 
> Just wanted to make sure i understood it lol


Yeah I am already running the bare minimum of nitrogen so I figure by changing the ratio (increasing the bloom) I can get what I want and perhaps even better results. Of course I will watch them in later lowering to see how they are reacting. Always experimenting.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 31, 2019)

@Renfro what is the breeder you are using of the Gorilla Glue #4? And where do you buy the seeds? I know GG Strains is the original breeder but I cant find them anywhere


----------



## Renfro (Mar 31, 2019)

New Age United said:


> @Renfro what is the breeder you are using of the Gorilla Glue #4? And where do you buy the seeds? I know GG Strains is the original breeder but I cant find them anywhere


I got the cut from a guy that used to work at the tree house like 4 years ago. I met him on here. I think that was before the glue was available in seed form it was just the #4 cut.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 31, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I got the cut from a guy that used to work at the tree house like 4 years ago. I met him on here. I think that was before the glue was available in seed form it was just the #4 cut.


So you've been continually monster cropping for 4 years, have you noticed any change in yield/potency over the years?


----------



## Renfro (Mar 31, 2019)

New Age United said:


> So you've been continually monster cropping for 4 years, have you noticed any change in yield/potency over the years?


No, it seems just the same as when I got it, I have only been monster cropping for about 3 years, before that I took clones in veg but they got so big they were very hard to move and force fit into the trellis rigs.

I think the whole clone degradation thing is a bunch of hogwash. I ran a strain called Shiva back in the day for over 7 years without any potency or yield changes.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 31, 2019)

Some pics of room B on day 13 of 12/12:

    

Plants are looking a little hungry so I adjusted the mix to 1200 PPM on the Jacks, here is the updated feed chart:

 

I changed the numbers to mL of the concentrate I make with 1 gram of powder to 10 mL of RO water. This is more accurate as I make all my adjustments and measurements with the concentrate and not grams of the powders.


----------



## diggs99 (Mar 31, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Some pics of room B on day 13 of 12/12:
> 
> View attachment 4309699 View attachment 4309702 View attachment 4309706 View attachment 4309707
> 
> ...


When you say the plants were " looking hungry" what are signs of this? leaf color?


----------



## Renfro (Mar 31, 2019)

Leafs were sorta pale and starting to get little roundish areas of lighter green.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 31, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Some pics of room B on day 13 of 12/12:
> 
> View attachment 4309699 View attachment 4309702 View attachment 4309706 View attachment 4309707
> 
> ...


You said you use GH flora series, do you use the recommended amount or stronger?


----------



## Renfro (Mar 31, 2019)

New Age United said:


> You said you use GH flora series, do you use the recommended amount or stronger?


I am using GH flora series in room A (GH has been my long time nute) but I am testing the Jacks 3-2-1 in room B. With GH I don't use their formula.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 31, 2019)

So playing with my truncheon it seems to read a little bit higher than my cheapo PPM pen (both at 0.5 conversion from EC). More research required. The thing I don't like about the truncheon is the precision. It only reads in 100 PPM increments. I may have to invest in a better EC reading pen.


----------



## New Age United (Mar 31, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I am using GH flora series in room A (GH has been my long time nute) but I am testing the Jacks 3-2-1 in room B. With GH I don't use their formula.


Ok, I'm on page 6 of this thread and plan on reading the whole thing sorry if you've already discussed this I'm learning a lot I especially like the tip about switching to MH for the last ten days of flower. Do you have any suggestions for a first time user of the flora series? If you already went into detail about it no worries I'll see it in the next few days.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 31, 2019)

New Age United said:


> Ok, I'm on page 6 of this thread and plan on reading the whole thing sorry if you've already discussed this I'm learning a lot I especially like the tip about switching to MH for the last ten days of flower. Do you have any suggestions for a first time user of the flora series? If you already went into detail about it no worries I'll see it in the next few days.


Just don't go by the bottle lol. Thats for tomatoes or something. I have a few versions of my mix posted on here. Always add Silicon first, then calimagic, then Micro then grow then bloom, in that order.


----------



## Smitty42088 (Mar 31, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Some pics of room B on day 13 of 12/12:
> 
> View attachment 4309699 View attachment 4309702 View attachment 4309706 View attachment 4309707
> 
> ...


Nice setup bro looks like your doing it biggg!!


----------



## gkay723 (Apr 1, 2019)

I made the switch from the truncheon to the combo pack. Worth the investment Imo.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 1, 2019)

Here are some room A shots from last nite:


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 1, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Here are some room A shots from last nite:
> 
> View attachment 4310394 View attachment 4310405 View attachment 4310407 View attachment 4310411 View attachment 4310413 View attachment 4310415 View attachment 4310416 View attachment 4310417



Gawddd dammnnnn that's some trees bro

Are you noticing a difference in size at this stage compared to last crop when you knowingly flipped early?

Expecting the big yield this time?

Looking to hit a pound bro? Lol


----------



## Renfro (Apr 1, 2019)

Here are some room B shots from today:


----------



## Renfro (Apr 1, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Gawddd dammnnnn that's some trees bro
> 
> Are you noticing a difference in size at this stage compared to last crop when you knowingly flipped early?
> 
> ...


Yeah they are a little bigger, getting up past the top trellis more than before, we shall see if they get to where I want them but it's looking good so far.


----------



## Gquebed (Apr 1, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I keep veg humidity until they start to form buds. Everything is still the same for now.
> 
> Here is the mix I plan to use in room A with the GH.
> View attachment 4302174
> ...


Interesting... i like the B52 from my AN days. Its good stuff. It works. Then i switched to GH when i went F/D this winter ... and went with kool bloom for a booster, which a lot of people say is shit. Dunno why??? Anyway, i see you got the B52 with the GH... too bad i still have a 1/2 gal of the KB still or i would switch...


----------



## Renfro (Apr 2, 2019)

Room A shots from tonite, those sides are really filling out. For some reason the Jacks room B is not going sideways as much as the GH room A (see pics from room B a few posts back), but the jacks room is a bit taller (it was before 12/12 also):

     

A few shots of the 630 CMH vs HPS to show how it's lagging:


----------



## TintEastwood (Apr 2, 2019)

Hi Renfro. You have a killer setup.
Grow envy! Lol

I'm thinking about setting up a veg room. Can I get away with sharing the air between flower and veg rooms? Small time stuff.....4x8....3x3.
Thanks for any insight.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 2, 2019)

TintEastwood said:


> Hi Renfro. You have a killer setup.
> Grow envy! Lol
> 
> I'm thinking about setting up a veg room. Can I get away with sharing the air between flower and veg rooms? Small time stuff.....4x8....3x3.
> Thanks for any insight.


Thanks man, I love my grow and I keep thinking that every time I am working in there. So many man hours in the build. I remember when it was just a drawing. My girl is still astounded by all the work I have done.

Sharing air between your rooms shouldn't pose any issue unless you want a higher humidity in veg (not really required).


----------



## TintEastwood (Apr 2, 2019)

Oh Yeah. I see the man hours. It shows in your pics, and results!
Kudos.

Great to know it is doable. Most of the year only 1 room should be active.

I like to draw Lol


Current veg...space.
 

Kick me if you see me doing something stupid.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 2, 2019)

Day 14 of 12/12. So just to give an idea how much they have grown. They are ready for a watering every 19 hours presently. lol in ten gallon buckets! This is the stage where they really drink the most and it will get even more so as I reduce the humidity. 2.5 gallons of feed per watering to get about 15% runoff. This drink rate is a good indicator of crop potential. Last round never got below 24 hour intervals. So this run looks like it's back to normal. They will drink hard for a while until they start tapering off in later flowering. This is why I find it hard to automate watering, you gotta water when they need it so something more than just a timer is required to do it optimally. Right now the 600 watt CMH plant is lagging behind on watering and only drinking about every 25 hours, total pain in the rear. Much easier when they are all on the same schedule.

Gorilla Glue clones for next round were cut today.

Starting to get little budlets forming so I am reducing the humidity starting today. I will dial it back a few points daily until I have it hanging at 50%.

RO filter is starting to creep PPM. Yesterday it was at 4 and now it's up at 17. Time to change the membrane. Got one on the shelf so I will be doing that shortly. This membrane lasted 8 months, thats par for my setup. It's filtered a lot of water lol.


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 2, 2019)

lol at every 19 hours, thats insane

mine take 3-4 days between waterings in 5g pots lol

So the CMH is lagging behind hey, sucks to see this, was really hoping it was gonna hold its own vs the 1k hps.

Have you ran your cob setup yet?


----------



## thenasty1 (Apr 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> This membrane lasted 8 months, thats par for my setup. It's filtered a lot of water lol.


what kind of filter do you use? i used to get about the same lifespan out of mine, but the most recent one i got (about 3-4 months ago) is already slowing down. like 18+ hours to fill a 55 gal barrel slow. flushing it out with hot water helps a bit for about a week, and then back to the slow flow. im thinking its time to look for a ro unit that is not marketed towards growing


----------



## growingforfun (Apr 2, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> lol at every 19 hours, thats insane
> 
> mine take 3-4 days between waterings in 5g pots lol
> 
> ...


I generally have to water every day as well, I think that's a sign they are growing properly. I've had runs where I have to water right after lights on and again before lights out. That run was hell but yielded well.


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 2, 2019)

growingforfun said:


> I generally have to water every day as well, I think that's a sign they are growing properly. I've had runs where I have to water right after lights on and again before lights out. That run was hell but yielded well.


Well im not sure what im doing wrong then lol

Im on my 2nd grow, first grow in 5g pots, 3-4 days between watering

This grow same thing, they were just flipped to flower, so i expect they will increase water intake a bit over the coming weeks, maybe 2-3 days lol


----------



## growingforfun (Apr 2, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Well im not sure what im doing wrong then lol
> 
> Im on my 2nd grow, first grow in 5g pots, 3-4 days between watering
> 
> This grow same thing, they were just flipped to flower, so i expect they will increase water intake a bit over the coming weeks, maybe 2-3 days lol


It could be the soil your using or maybe the roots haddent dug into the dirt a lot before you went into flower. It's not a big deal, but it is helpful


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 2, 2019)

growingforfun said:


> It could be the soil your using or maybe the roots haddent dug into the dirt a lot before you went into flower. It's not a big deal, but it is helpful


Using ffof and 30-40% perilite

Temps always 78-80f
Rh 60 in veg and 45-50 flower

Maybe I just haven't grown any drinkers yet lol


----------



## growingforfun (Apr 2, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Using ffof and 30-40% perilite
> 
> Temps always 78-80f
> Rh 60 in veg and 45-50 flower
> ...


Maybe your transplanting a little sooner than you could or into a larger container than you could, or your not under hps lights.
For me its universal regardless of strain. I only have it take more than a couple days right after transplant and even my vet plants drink every day but I also run smaller containers than a lot around here. My veg plants are in 2 quart containers and 3 ft tall. I'm throwing them into 5 gal containers today.


----------



## newguy123 (Apr 2, 2019)

Hey Renfro, nice thread keep up the hard work!
I was wondering if you had any seed available strain recommendations

Looking to buy something during the 420 promos. Good yield good smoke.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 2, 2019)

thenasty1 said:


> what kind of filter do you use? i used to get about the same lifespan out of mine, but the most recent one i got (about 3-4 months ago) is already slowing down. like 18+ hours to fill a 55 gal barrel slow. flushing it out with hot water helps a bit for about a week, and then back to the slow flow. im thinking its time to look for a ro unit that is not marketed towards growing


When they slow down, time to change prefilters, when output PPM goes up time to change the membrane. I use a Weco MX-350ALK.



diggs99 said:


> lol at every 19 hours, thats insane
> 
> mine take 3-4 days between waterings in 5g pots lol
> 
> ...


I am running temps right at 89 degrees at the canopy, with CO2, and they are big ass plants. I think you are running a lot cooler and without CO2.



newguy123 said:


> Hey Renfro, nice thread keep up the hard work!
> I was wondering if you had any seed available strain recommendations
> 
> Looking to buy something during the 420 promos. Good yield good smoke.


Kandy Kush

Gorilla Glue (Heard there is seeds of this out now)

Those are some big dank yielders.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 2, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Have you ran your cob setup yet?


It's waiting for the breeding tent to get fired up, very soon.


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 3, 2019)

Renfro said:


> When they slow down, time to change prefilters, when output PPM goes up time to change the membrane. I use a Weco MX-350ALK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yep, correct. my canopy temps never rise above 80f it seems and no CO2


----------



## Renfro (Apr 3, 2019)

Yeah you gotta have higher temps to actually use the CO2. Speeds up the plants metabolism and of course you also need more light, feed PPM and h2o. In the right balance you can get some stellar growth rates and massive yields. If anything is lacking shit can go south fast and pH needs to be on point because the plants will need easy access to all nutrients.


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 3, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah you gotta have higher temps to actually use the CO2. Speeds up the plants metabolism and of course you also need more light, feed PPM and h2o. In the right balance you can get some stellar growth rates and massive yields. If anything is lacking shit can go south fast and pH needs to be on point because the plants will need easy access to all nutrients.


Interesting, learn something new everyday they say. 

I can take rest of the day off now lol


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 3, 2019)

The room im gonna run the 4x8 table in is 8x16, as of now im gonna use the 1230 watts of cmh/hps i have, been trying to buy new lights but the logical side of me keeps telling me no. 

I think im gonna seriously look into Co2 for the room tho. Would you run CO2 in my situation? 4x8 e&f table with 40+ plants from clone?


----------



## Renfro (Apr 3, 2019)

The one thing I am finding is important with CMH is to have plenty of ceiling height. Especially with the 1kW ones. They need like 3 to 4 feet above canopy. lol not happening in my space and the 600 just isn't performing.

I highly recommend CO2. I like generators because I am not hauling and changing tanks, just use the natural gas pumped into my home. They do add a little heat but with a controller they don't run that much unless your room is loosing air.

You don't have to keep the room as cool though so that energy savings probably compensates for the added heat... dunno, don't care, my yields are partly because I can get the plants on overdrive. I wouldn't wanna be without CO2 enrichment.


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 3, 2019)

Renfro said:


> The one thing I am finding is important with CMH is to have plenty of ceiling height. Especially with the 1kW ones. They need like 3 to 4 feet above canopy. lol not happening in my space and the 600 just isn't performing.
> 
> I highly recommend CO2. I like generators because I am not hauling and changing tanks, just use the natural gas pumped into my home. They do add a little heat but with a controller they don't run that much unless your room is loosing air.
> 
> You don't have to keep the room as cool though so that energy savings probably compensates for the added heat... dunno, don't care, my yields are partly because I can get the plants on overdrive. I wouldn't wanna be without CO2 enrichment.



Ya i was gonna go the QB route, but even going with knockoff boards it was still gonna cost me 1400-1500 for 900-1000 watts , i can buy 2 x 1k de hps for a fraction of that.

We dont have natural gas in this province, would a generator still work for me? or would i need to go with tanks?


----------



## Renfro (Apr 3, 2019)

They make propane ones too. Same deal just different regulator.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 3, 2019)

Something like this:

https://growershouse.com/titan-controls-ares-4-co2-generator-4-burner?402=9359&aid=11101&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=1o2&scid=scplp11101&sc_intid=11101&gsacid=952889933&keyword=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIq_2zntGz4QIVvh-tBh2MdA3zEAQYAiABEgIqlvD_BwE


----------



## Renfro (Apr 3, 2019)

Some shots of both rooms right at the AM flip. Another post will be required to get the last photos.

Room A
      

Room B


----------



## Renfro (Apr 3, 2019)




----------



## smokebros (Apr 4, 2019)

Are those fans blowing up to keep the CO2 from falling? Do you have an IG at all?


----------



## Renfro (Apr 4, 2019)

smokebros said:


> Are those fans blowing up to keep the CO2 from falling? Do you have an IG at all?


The fans that are blowing up between the lights and the side canopy are there to move the heat from the lights on the row ends. Don't wanna cook those side nugs. They also help with room air circulation but I put them there for the purpose of keeping some cool air between the 400w HPS bulb and the plants.

I do not have an IG.


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## Renfro (Apr 4, 2019)

Some day 16 shots of room B:


----------



## Renfro (Apr 4, 2019)

Some day 16 shots of Room A:

   

Some beefy side canopy shots:

   

600 watt CMH plant slacking, it grows way better where it gets the HPS light, CMH is veg only for me from here on out:

 

So room B is looking like it's not doing as well as room A. These plants are just way better looking in person. So I am ditching the jacks, no fucking around lol. Gonna stick with what I know and has done me good for 30 years now.


----------



## beacher (Apr 4, 2019)

If it aint broke....looking nice man, some huge side branches there!


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## Renfro (Apr 6, 2019)

Some day 17 shots of room A:

     

Those rows are getting narrow lol.

Here is an experiment I did earlier today in room B. I used my grow room glasses in front of the camera and got a pretty cool shot. I will have to try and remember to do this in the future.

 

Much easier on the eye huh?


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## GoBrah (Apr 6, 2019)

Non UV version on?


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## diggs99 (Apr 6, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Some day 17 shots of room A:
> 
> View attachment 4312985 View attachment 4312986 View attachment 4312987 View attachment 4312988 View attachment 4312989
> 
> ...


They are looking great renfro.

I use the grow glasses in front of camera for all my pics usually, much better than the orange hps version lol


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## blasting (Apr 6, 2019)

Ok, caught up. Greetings Renfro. I've learned a ton on this thread, and wanted to say thanks for all the info.


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## Renfro (Apr 6, 2019)

GoBrah said:


> Non UV version on?


No the plants are too tall, I don't have the space to run the 1kW CMH right now, plants would be fried. This round really blew up big.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 6, 2019)

So I had to order a high CFM kit for my breeding tent. Even on very low setting my 10 " blower sucks the tent in really hard. I think this should solve the problem, I ordered two of them, looks like I can use them both and really beef it up lol. Yeah I know a 10 inch vortex is overkill for the tent but it was on sale cheaper than the 4 inch fan so I figured put it on a variac and just slow it down.


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## Renfro (Apr 8, 2019)

Day 20 room A:


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## diggs99 (Apr 8, 2019)

So used to seeing your hps pics, have to double check when I see the lens covered pics lol


Your trees are looking great man, really bushing out and filling the trellis nice.

How's the smell?


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## Renfro (Apr 8, 2019)

Thanks man! I can hardly smell them with all the scrubbing but if I rub my nose on the buds I can get a strong whiff. Only 50 more days to go! lol


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## diggs99 (Apr 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Thanks man! I can hardly smell them with all the scrubbing but if I rub my nose on the buds I can get a strong whiff. Only 50 more days to go! lol


Seems like only a few days ago we were talking about your last harvest and about you being excited for this next run.

50 days won't be long going lol

Stem rub on my space cookies at day 18 since flip is pure pinesol


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## Renfro (Apr 8, 2019)

Love the pine tasting strains. My Kandy Kush is mostly pine and citrus with a gassy smell as they finish. Glad to have that strain back in my stable because it's excellent smoke and an amazing yielder.


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## diggs99 (Apr 9, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Love the pine tasting strains. My Kandy Kush is mostly pine and citrus with a gassy smell as they finish. Glad to have that strain back in my stable because it's excellent smoke and an amazing yielder.


Lol I thought I had a pack of kandy kush, when I went to look it's called kushy kush lol 

Ya I usually like the piney tasting and smelling stuff too.


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## Thundercat (Apr 9, 2019)

I've never had any piney weed. Never grown or smoked any lol. That's another on my list to try.


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## Renfro (Apr 9, 2019)

So I got a 1000W DE CMH bulb from @GoBrah and I put it in the light where the 600 watt CMH was. Since that plant is shorter I figure it might tolerate such brightness, will watch and see how it goes.


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## Mellow old School (Apr 10, 2019)

Nice as always mate, and damn too...


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## Tiflis (Apr 10, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Lol I thought I had a pack of kandy kush, when I went to look it's called kushy kush lol
> 
> Ya I usually like the piney tasting and smelling stuff too.


Train Wreck is very piney and hits like a train LoL 
Where's your thread at Diggs, can't find you man


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## Renfro (Apr 10, 2019)

Tiflis said:


> Train Wreck is very piney and hits like a train LoL
> Where's your thread at Diggs, can't find you man


I agree on the train wreck. I had a cut of that back around 2005 and it was pine sol all the way.


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## diggs99 (Apr 10, 2019)

Tiflis said:


> Train Wreck is very piney and hits like a train LoL
> Where's your thread at Diggs, can't find you man


New thread called space cookies

Yep loved trainwreck the few times I've had it


----------



## Renfro (Apr 12, 2019)

Here are some day 25 pics of room B:

    

Room B definitely took a hit from running the Jacks, it did well until after the stretch but then things went south, thus the change back to GH. Room A pics to follow in a little bit.


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## Renfro (Apr 12, 2019)

Also, I got the high CFM kits I ordered for the breeding tent project. I installed both kits and now I can run the 10" vortex at full power and the tent is stable.


----------



## augusto1 (Apr 12, 2019)

Next run try Mega Crop products you won't regret it.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 12, 2019)

augusto1 said:


> Next run try Mega Crop products you won't regret it.


I am gonna stick with my GH.


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## Renfro (Apr 12, 2019)

Here are some shots of room A, this room is really rocking hard core. General Hydroponics is the bomb!

    

I made some stands for my girls auto cobs, to light the lower part of the plant. she rotates it daily.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 14, 2019)

Finally got off my lazy ass and got the tent together:

    

There is a lid for the reservoir, it's just not on in the pics. Plan to put some cuts in there tomorrow and start them flowering right away to keep them from getting too tall. Time to make some beans!


----------



## Mellow old School (Apr 15, 2019)

You might already have mentioned it, but what crosses are you thinking bout making mate or are you going to experiment with colloidal silver *?*


----------



## Renfro (Apr 15, 2019)

Mellow old School said:


> You might already have mentioned it, but what crosses are you thinking bout making mate or are you going to experiment with colloidal silver *?*


My plan is to make a Gorilla Glue 4 cut toss some pollen at my Wedding Cake, Kandy Kush, Triple Nova, Purple Punch, Durban Poison, Lemon Skunk and Do-Si-Do cuts.

Then i can take one cross at a time and shotgun like 12 beans and try to grab a great phenotype.


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 15, 2019)

Looking great bro

Love the tent, Gorillas scream quality. COB sighting!!! Using it for side lighting? or am i just really baked and dunno wtf im talking about lol


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## Grow for fun only (Apr 15, 2019)

Wish you a happy harvest there.


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## Renfro (Apr 15, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Looking great bro
> 
> Love the tent, Gorillas scream quality. COB sighting!!! Using it for side lighting? or am i just really baked and dunno wtf im talking about lol


lol That cob light is the one I got from cobkits. It's gonna run this 2x4 tent. It's the overhead light and only light in there. Good thing it's dimmable since it will run up to 480 watts, thats 60 watts per sqft of quality LED so it will not have to run at full power ever and I am told the diodes run more efficient at the dimmer settings. I will probably not get above 60% in that space or 35 watts per sqft.


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## Renfro (Apr 15, 2019)

Grow for fun only said:


> Wish you a happy harvest there.


Thank you!


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 15, 2019)

Renfro said:


> lol That cob light is the one I got from cobkits. It's gonna run this 2x4 tent. It's the overhead light and only light in there. Good thing it's dimmable since it will run up to 480 watts, thats 60 watts per sqft of quality LED so it will not have to run at full power ever and I am told the diodes run more efficient at the dimmer settings. I will probably not get above 60% in that space or 35 watts per sqft.


That cob runs up to 480w and is dimmable? That sounds good, add in the versatility and those cobs should be legit for any gardens

link me , would like to take a look. I always have trouble finding what im looking for on that site lol


I have my 4x8 table and reservoir, still trying to hammer down new lighting, ordered some f-series strips, will attempt a diy eventually, may buy a couple 1k de hps setups to run the table for the next couple grows tho, while im flat out busy working and wont have time for much else. These cobs you have look interesting lol


----------



## Renfro (Apr 15, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> That cob runs up to 480w and is dimmable? That sounds good, add in the versatility and those cobs should be legit for any gardens
> 
> link me , would like to take a look. I always have trouble finding what im looking for on that site lol
> 
> ...


The cob light was just a bunch of parts that cobkits put together for me. Not really a link for it but if you need something like that you can ask him and he will put something together for you as a package deal. I just asked him to make me a freaking badass light and this is what we came up with. We made sure it was overkill so it wouldn't have to be run at full power to get max efficiency. I am sure a light for that space could be made with 6 cobs and do the job just fine but we used 8.

Can't go wrong with those DE HPS. lol I love em.


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 15, 2019)

Renfro said:


> The cob light was just a bunch of parts that cobkits put together for me. Not really a link for it but if you need something like that you can ask him and he will put something together for you as a package deal. I just asked him to make me a freaking badass light and this is what we came up with. We made sure it was overkill so it wouldn't have to be run at full power to get max efficiency. I am sure a light for that space could be made with 6 cobs and do the job just fine but we used 8.
> 
> Can't go wrong with those DE HPS. lol I love em.



What was price point if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## Renfro (Apr 15, 2019)

I wanna say it ended up at 650 but I can't remember for sure. 100 is what he charged me for assembly.


----------



## Grow for fun only (Apr 16, 2019)

Over 500$ I would think it expensive, all my lights is less than 500$ except for that one cree 256led, but this lamp not bad.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 16, 2019)

Day 28 Room A:

    



Grow for fun only said:


> Over 500$ I would think it expensive, all my lights is less than 500$ except for that one cree 256led, but this lamp not bad.


Yeah it's pretty Cadillac. Way more light than I need in there. lol


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 16, 2019)

That last pic really shows the size of these plants. Massive indoor trees bro

Nice job as usual.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 16, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> That last pic really shows the size of these plants. Massive indoor trees bro
> 
> Nice job as usual.


I like that second one, shows how narrow it's getting between those rows.

I got me a bottle of the Tribus Bloom and started using that today. My Tribus Original ran out.


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 16, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I like that second one, shows how narrow it's getting between those rows.
> 
> I got me a bottle of the Tribus Bloom and started using that today. My Tribus Original ran out.


Ya i noticed the walkways getting smaller lol

Here i am, planning the new 4x8 ebb and flow setup which is very opposite to how you currently grow, but every fkn time i come in this thread i just want to go back to my original plan of growing indoor trees like you lol


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## Grow for fun only (Apr 17, 2019)

The last second one dropped into my eye, that a great job man.


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## Renfro (Apr 17, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ya i noticed the walkways getting smaller lol
> 
> Here i am, planning the new 4x8 ebb and flow setup which is very opposite to how you currently grow, but every fkn time i come in this thread i just want to go back to my original plan of growing indoor trees like you lol


Well if I wasn't limited by a plant count I would have a bunch of trays setup in my rooms, maybe the harvests wouldn't be as big but they would be more often and easier.

You gotta do whats mathematically to your advantage.


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well if I wasn't limited by a plant count I would have a bunch of trays setup in my rooms, maybe the harvests wouldn't be as big but they would be more often and easier.
> 
> You gotta do whats mathematically to your advantage.


Ya I agree man. I feel/hope the 4x8 table running from clone will produce nicely every 8-10 weeks if I do it right.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 17, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Ya I agree man. I feel/hope the 4x8 table running from clone will produce nicely every 8-10 weeks if I do it right.


when i ran a 60 day strain (shiva) i would harvest/reload a row of tables every 20 days in a perpetual. i had 12 lights and 6 4x8 tables, was close to 9 pounds every 20 days. that was back when wholesale on A grade twig was 5k a pound. those were the good days.


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> when i ran a 60 day strain (shiva) i would harvest/reload a row of tables every 20 days in a perpetual. i had 12 lights and 6 4x8 tables, was close to 9 pounds every 20 days. that was back when wholesale on A grade twig was 5k a pound. those were the good days.


Lol wow that's crazy numbers.

I'll be running 40+ clones on the table , under approx 1200-1400watts if I run leds or 1800-2000watts if I run cmh or de hps .


----------



## JohnDee (Apr 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah it's pretty Cadillac. Way more light than I need in there. lol


I have a LumiGrow 650...bought it used off eBay. The Cadillac of blurples. That COB you have sounds great.

So now I'm subbed as threatened. Bring on the fems!
JD


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## Renfro (Apr 17, 2019)

JohnDee said:


> I have a LumiGrow 650...bought it used off eBay. The Cadillac of blurples. That COB you have sounds great.
> 
> So now I'm subbed as threatened. Bring on the fems!
> JD


Good to have you along for the ride! Wish me luck.


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## JohnDee (Apr 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Good to have you along for the ride! Wish me luck.


 You got it...

*Good Luck!*


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## Jefferson1977 (Apr 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Good to have you along for the ride! Wish me luck.


Good luck dude, I'll be in too. Love what you are doing over here. 40lbs, christ, but I have a job too. Or else I would grow 40lbs for personal.


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## Jefferson1977 (Apr 17, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Lol wow that's crazy numbers.
> 
> I'll be running 40+ clones on the table , under approx 1200-1400watts if I run leds or 1800-2000watts if I run cmh or de hps .


If you run DE you prob already know just mentioning you need at least 5-7 feet from the top of canopy after stretch.


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## Renfro (Apr 17, 2019)

Jefferson1977 said:


> Good luck dude, I'll be in too. Love what you are doing over here. 40lbs, christ, but I have a job too. Or else I would grow 40lbs for personal.


Yeah I don't need a job, living on that mailbox money. lol



Jefferson1977 said:


> If you run DE you prob already know just mentioning you need at least 5-7 feet from the top of canopy after stretch.


Yeah, I don't have that much.


----------



## Jefferson1977 (Apr 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah I don't need a job, living on that mailbox money. lol
> 
> 
> Yeah, I don't have that much.


Sorry man, I thought growing was your job. If not or if you deserve RESPECT!!!! FUCKING RESPECT! You do that AND WORK too? Fuck me.


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## Renfro (Apr 17, 2019)

Jefferson1977 said:


> Sorry man, I thought growing was your job. If not or if you deserve RESPECT!!!! FUCKING RESPECT! You do that AND WORK too? Fuck me.


Used to be my job, now I am just part owner.


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## Jefferson1977 (Apr 17, 2019)

My dream job and most peoples probably.


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## Renfro (Apr 17, 2019)

Jefferson1977 said:


> My dream job and most peoples probably.


Yeah it was my dream job. Now that I have it I can say it's everything I imagined it could be.


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## Renfro (Apr 18, 2019)

So here is the tent, day 1 of 12/12. Just potted the clones yesterday and they had their first 12 hours of dark yesterday.

  

There is a GG4, will be the pollen donor if things work out, a kandy kush, a purple punch, a LV Lemon Skunk a couple wedding cakes and a couple durban poisons. Wasn't able to get a triple nova in this round.


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 18, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So here is the tent, day 1 of 12/12. Just potted the clones yesterday and they had their first 12 hours of dark yesterday.
> 
> View attachment 4319496 View attachment 4319498
> 
> There is a GG4, will be the pollen donor if things work out, a kandy kush, a purple punch, a LV Lemon Skunk a couple wedding cakes and a couple durban poisons. Wasn't able to get a triple nova in this round.


Whats your plan for watering? DTW? ebb and flow? 
Nice strains, will be fun watching that tent fill up.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 18, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Whats your plan for watering? DTW? ebb and flow?
> Nice strains, will be fun watching that tent fill up.


Yeah it's ebb and flow / flood and drain, the reservoir is on the floor to the left of the tent.


----------



## New Age United (Apr 19, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Here is my nutrient mix chart from this run.
> 
> View attachment 4283231


How much water are you mixing these amounts into, I just recieved the flora series and I want to get a good idea of what I should be giving them, I'm in a tent I only give them 4 liters each 2 liters just water 2 liters feed.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 19, 2019)

New Age United said:


> How much water are you mixing these amounts into, I just recieved the flora series and I want to get a good idea of what I should be giving them, I'm in a tent I only give them 4 liters each 2 liters just water 2 liters feed.


I can't see the chart in your quote but my mix barrels are 30 gallon.


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## New Age United (Apr 19, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I can't see the chart in your quote but my mix barrels are 30 gallon.


Ok perfect thanks, just so you know you started with 250ml of each the micro, grow and bloom then switched it up throughout the 10 weeks of flower.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 19, 2019)

New Age United said:


> just so you know you started with 250ml of each the micro, grow and bloom then switched it up throughout the 10 weeks of flower.


Yeah that first mix is veg formula. After that it's 12/12.


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## New Age United (Apr 19, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah that first mix is veg formula. After that it's 12/12.


Oh ok good to know for sure


----------



## Dividedsky (Apr 19, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah it's ebb and flow / flood and drain, the reservoir is on the floor to the left of the tent.


Nice, so if you were to do a soil grow in a similar tent and use the flood trays, you could drill a hole in flood table and plug it up. Unplug to drain the flood table when you wanted to flush to avoid nute lockout/ salt buildup. Sorry about the questions but always wanted to run a scrog grow but was weary being a soil grower and not being able to really move the plants around. I like to flush a few times during grow to check ppms and just rinse out any salt buildup, though I do feed nutes right up until harvest. No flush at the end. Dope grow by the way! Nice and clean.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 19, 2019)

Dividedsky said:


> Nice, so if you were to do a soil grow in a similar tent and use the flood trays, you could drill a hole in flood table and plug it up. Unplug to drain the flood table when you wanted to flush to avoid nute lockout/ salt buildup. Sorry about the questions but always wanted to run a scrog grow but was weary being a soil grower and not being able to really move the plants around. I like to flush a few times during grow to check ppms and just rinse out any salt buildup, though I do feed nutes right up until harvest. No flush at the end. Dope grow by the way! Nice and clean.


Why not just leave the trays drain open and run it to a floor drain? Then you can water with proper runoff and not have to empty saucers. Thats how I would do it. If you don't have a floor drain you could use a collection bucket and drop a sump pump in there and plumb that to waste. lol

I also like to flush periodically during the grow, every two weeks ish. I always flush with RO water that has 100 PPM of epsom salt in it as pure h2o is supposedly bad for the roots. After flushing I follow immediately with a feed, don't wanna starve the plants. I water 10 gallon pots with 2.5 gallons every time so there is about 20% runoff so salt buildups are minimal.


----------



## Dividedsky (Apr 19, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Why not just leave the trays drain open and run it to a floor drain? Then you can water with proper runoff and not have to empty saucers. Thats how I would do it. If you don't have a floor drain you could use a collection bucket and drop a sump pump in there and plumb that to waste. lol
> 
> I also like to flush periodically during the grow, every two weeks ish. I always flush with RO water that has 100 PPM of epsom salt in it as pure h2o is supposedly bad for the roots. After flushing I follow immediately with a feed, don't wanna starve the plants. I water 10 gallon pots with 2.5 gallons every time so there is about 20% runoff so salt buildups are minimal.


Ya I hear you. I don't have a floor drain. I would plan on having a 30 gal bucket under it w/sub pump that would run to either mini split or tankless hot water heater condensate pump. This would be an extra flower room, I already have a 4000w hps grow room that's framed in and specifically meant to be a bloom room. What I'm talking about would be adding a tent to flower more plants in another room. I'd probably run a 630 cmh. I would like to finally do a run with those lights.


----------



## Dividedsky (Apr 19, 2019)

What I do is just throw one of these on either my shop vac bucket or 5 gal home depot bucket depending on fabric pot size, when doing occasional flush.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 19, 2019)

Dividedsky said:


> Ya I hear you. I don't have a floor drain. I would plan on having a 30 gal bucket under it w/sub pump that would run to either mini split or tankless hot water heater condensate pump. This would be an extra flower room, I already have a 4000w hps grow room that's framed in and specifically meant to be a bloom room. What I'm talking about would be adding a tent to flower more plants in another room. I'd probably run a 630 cmh. I would like to finally do a run with those lights.


Sounds awesome. You can have a tent to test strains and other such good times. I am so stoked about my tent breeding experiment. Just something cool about that small space, I have never grown in a tent before and it's pretty cool for things such as this. I haven't even opened it in 3 days, just look in thru the window to get readings off my co2/temp/RH meter. With the reservoir outside the tent I can check PPM, pH and topoff without even opening the tent. I am gonna see how long I can go without opening it aside for applying the STS.


----------



## Dividedsky (Apr 19, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Sounds awesome. You can have a tent to test strains and other such good times. I am so stoked about my tent breeding experiment. Just something cool about that small space, I have never grown in a tent before and it's pretty cool for things such as this. I haven't even opened it in 3 days, just look in thru the window to get readings off my co2/temp/RH meter. With the reservoir outside the tent I can check PPM, pH and topoff without even opening the tent. I am gonna see how long I can go without opening it aside for applying the STS.


I learned to grow in a tent with an a/c hood and carbon filter, inline fan-passive air intake. I just use them for veg nowadays, but they are awesome and come in handy. When you're in my situation and already taken up most of the space in basement and can't really build out another bloom room, a tent will be perfect for an extra flower light.
Wanted to ask how do you like the DE lights? I saw that dude say you need up to 7ft of head room which is not the case and overkill but how far do you have them away from your plants? On my next grow which my friend and I might do in a empty 4 car garage, I trying to figure out which lights to go with. I'm leaning towards 630cmh but the hps lover in me wants to grab the de 1000watters and fucking blow the place out!


----------



## Renfro (Apr 19, 2019)

Dividedsky said:


> Wanted to ask how do you like the DE lights? I saw that dude say you need up to 7ft of head room which is not the case and overkill but how far do you have them away from your plants?


I love my DE lights. My plants get pretty close, sometimes closer than I like but at 2.5 feet they work really good so long as you keep air flowing between the canopy and the lights. I have 8 feet to the bottom of my floor joists, the trellis rigs are 5 feet tall and you can see in the pics how close they are. The best lights I have ever had by far. I recommend the Sun System ballast for your DE HPS.  The Nanolux ones I started with had an extremely high failure rate. The Phantoms I have are good too but I like the sun systems better. They seem a bit brighter with the same bulbs compared to the Phantom. Gavitas are nice but for me even their compact units are too tall with the ballast on the reflector, waste of vertical space. Also I want my ballasts to _not_ be up by the bulb, it's too hard to change a dead ballast mid run.

When you think about the DE HPS just think 20% stronger and you cant air cool the reflectors. Other than that the only reason to have them 7 feet above the plants is if you are running a commercial grid where all the lights overlap and hit the plants from all angles.


----------



## OneHitDone (Apr 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So here is the tent, day 1 of 12/12. Just potted the clones yesterday and they had their first 12 hours of dark yesterday.
> 
> View attachment 4319496 View attachment 4319498
> 
> There is a GG4, will be the pollen donor if things work out, a kandy kush, a purple punch, a LV Lemon Skunk a couple wedding cakes and a couple durban poisons. Wasn't able to get a triple nova in this round.


Sorry I missed a few days of class, this is your led test grow?


----------



## Dividedsky (Apr 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I love my DE lights. My plants get pretty close, sometimes closer than I like but at 2.5 feet they work really good so long as you keep air flowing between the canopy and the lights..


Ya I would run a mini split... you can definitely get the de lights closer than most people think. I just got my 1st mini split this year. Now I couldn't imagine growing without it, wish I got one years ago. I have a 24k btu daikin mini split to cool 4 1000s. I'm thinking of adding a 630 cmh/dual lamp/hood 315 to the middle aisle of grow room.
I'll be pulling up a seat and following your grow, I love the setup man! It's awesome checking out grows like yours because you always find something new that you can incorporate into your own garden. I would like to get something about half the size of your room going for my next flower room -that is in the garage I mentioned. 9-10,000 watts of hid. Just have to get my electrician buddy in there to check it out because it's a detached garage, but it does have power and hooked up to house fuse/electrical box.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 20, 2019)

OneHitDone said:


> Sorry I missed a few days of class, this is your led test grow?


I had plans to try the LED as a row end light but after seeing how big it is and how far it needs to be from the plants I decided to use it in the tent project.


----------



## ounevinsmoke (Apr 20, 2019)

Enjoyed reading through this thread, props on the grows man you definitely have a ton of skill. The techniques you use are clean and efficient, I learned a few things, much appreciated. Sub


----------



## augusto1 (Apr 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I had plans to try the LED as a row end light but after seeing how big it is and how far it needs to be from the plants I decided to use it in the tent project.


Does LED has to be farther than the HPS from the plants? I thought it was the opposite way.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 21, 2019)

augusto1 said:


> Does LED has to be farther than the HPS from the plants? I thought it was the opposite way.


Depends on the LED, I know that I have been able to get plants pretty darn close to HPS. Some of these LED lights are just so bright but if you can turn them down you can run the closer. It's all about the right light for your situation. I have buds hanging 8 inches away from 400 watt HPS bulbs on the row ends, no problems, but with the cobs I have they would be too close.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 21, 2019)

ounevinsmoke said:


> Enjoyed reading through this thread, props on the grows man you definitely have a ton of skill. The techniques you use are clean and efficient, I learned a few things, much appreciated. Sub


Glad to have you along for the ride and thanks for the complementary observations.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 21, 2019)

Some day 33 pics of room A:


----------



## Dividedsky (Apr 21, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Some day 33 pics


You have such a clean setup man, that room is huge, suprised you didn't paint the floors white with some killz, would have tied the room together. Still looks sick and I probably wouldn't have painted it after doing all the work putting a room together like yours. Shit gets tiring after a while, and I only have a bloom room that's a quater of your size. Haha


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## ttystikk (Apr 21, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Some day 33 pics of room A:
> 
> View attachment 4321397 View attachment 4321398 View attachment 4321400 View attachment 4321402 View attachment 4321405 View attachment 4321412


Very nice work, brother.


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## Tiflis (Apr 22, 2019)

I want to be like Renfro , when I grow up


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## Renfro (Apr 22, 2019)

Here are some day 4 shots of the tent:


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## Mellow old School (Apr 23, 2019)

As always nice, what size of HPS do you have in the tent, might have mentioed it, but I missed it then...


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## Renfro (Apr 23, 2019)

Mellow old School said:


> As always nice, what size of HPS do you have in the tent, might have mentioed it, but I missed it then...


The tent is running the cob light I got from cobkits. It's 480 watts, currently dimmed, probably around 70%.


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## Mellow old School (Apr 23, 2019)

Oh okay, just thought since I saw HPS, and thats quite some light for the tent. How much does 1 kilowatt cost in your area, here I pay 40 cents, sadly that put a limitation on me plus other circumstances...


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## ttystikk (Apr 23, 2019)

Mellow old School said:


> Oh okay, just thought since I saw HPS, and thats quite some light for the tent. How much does 1 kilowatt cost in your area, here I pay 40 cents, sadly that put a limitation on me plus other circumstances...


Ouch! Then you should definitely PM me for energy saving ideas. I have tons of them depending on the scale of your goals. You saw my post in the other thread, right?


----------



## Mellow old School (Apr 23, 2019)

Yep I did, will write later mate, have a good day people...


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## jungle666 (Apr 24, 2019)

Well done renfo , great journal


----------



## Renfro (Apr 27, 2019)

Some day 39 shots:

     

The plants have started to slow down on drinking.

For comparison here is a shot from when they started 12/12:


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## jungle666 (Apr 27, 2019)

Few pounds there, wd


----------



## Renfro (Apr 27, 2019)

jungle666 said:


> Few pounds there, wd


Yeah, give or take an ounce or two. lol


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## diggs99 (Apr 28, 2019)

Looking good bro


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## Harold Okie (Apr 30, 2019)

gr865 said:


> [QUOTE="Renfro, post: 14715501, member: 1 are potted. They look so homely as they reveg from flower. I like to put a stake in before potting the clones so I don't damage roots later.
> View attachment 4272660


I hope you have room, my MC, Barneys Farm LSD taken at day 33 and vegged way too long. 
View attachment 4272662 View attachment 4272663

Oh that at 19 plus zips smokable buds.[/QUOTE]
Amazing!!!
Plant looks bare. Need some info on starting clones to root. TIA


----------



## bdt1981 (Apr 30, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Well i dont have space restrictions, i was just under the impression clone to SOG is the fastest turnover with great yields.
> 
> What would you do instead of SOG if you were allowed 50 plants?
> 
> I want to keep 4 or 6 mothers preferably.


Under current 8 gallon modules with 3 week veg. U will get an un comparAble yield to the 50 clones straight into flower. The 3 weeks veg will be wiped away by how much more you yield in each harvest. Like u will get 10x the harvest for only 3 weeks extra time.


----------



## Harold Okie (Apr 30, 2019)

: 1007445"]Well with a 4 plant limit I definitely wouldn't keep moms. I would take clones off my plants.

How do you start your clones and get good roots?? TIA


----------



## bdt1981 (Apr 30, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well if space isn't an issue id grow a bunch like mine and harvest some really big numbers LoL
> 
> Really though a SoG is a wonderful way to go BUT running different strains under one light can make it hard to keep an even canopy. I like having them in pots so I can arrange the shorter plants to the middle where the light is most intense, sorta like a stadium. A trellis is good to hold the top colas up and keep pots from falling over.
> 
> When I grew Shiva going straight from clone into flower they ended up over 40 inches tall with big 20 - 22 gram colas. Id lollipop them at day 20 of 12/12.


My nlXchronic got tall like that on an aeroflo2 36. There was only 2 of them and of course they ended up being right in the middle. Lol. I had 4 strains in the sog areoflo2 36 and lollie popped 3 weeks in came out with 26-28 oz with 31 because like 5 didnt have good enough roots to put in the system but i was impatient and wanted to start. They never took off. I trimmed 2 times each of the first 3 weeks instead of all at once tho.


----------



## gr865 (Apr 30, 2019)

Harold Okie said:


> I hope you have room, my MC, Barneys Farm LSD taken at day 33 and vegged way too long.
> View attachment 4272662 View attachment 4272663
> 
> Oh that at 19 plus zips smokable buds.


Amazing!!!
Plant looks bare. Need some info on starting clones to root. TIA[/QUOTE]

I built this earlier this year.


----------



## bdt1981 (Apr 30, 2019)

Harold Okie said:


> : 1007445"]Well with a 4 plant limit I definitely wouldn't keep moms. I would take clones off my plants.
> 
> How do you start your clones and get good roots?? TIA


Clone machine kills it. Here ill try and post pic of day 17 in a 36 site off brand machine. They were in so long because its not my grow. Its my bosses and they arent hip to growing so i came in and took over 700 clones and trimmed up about 100 plants in the process. Put on machine thinking they would transplant when they were ready but nope. Waited until i could come in on a rainy day to do it. I charged 1$ each clone i took and 1$ each plant i trimmed up. They had 2 36 site machines and the rest i put in jiffy pots. Only 170 of the clones have been transplanted so far cuz these dudes to lazy to really grow and i had to do it. Going back today since its raining to do more. Wonder how much i should charge to transplant each one. Lol. Btw after 17 days some of the roots were 18 to 24 inches long.


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## bdt1981 (Apr 30, 2019)

gr865 said:


> Amazing!!!
> Plant looks bare. Need some info on starting clones to root. TIA


I built this earlier this year.
View attachment 4325628 View attachment 4325630 View attachment 4325629View attachment 4325631[/QUOTE]
Eew bro fuckin slimy lookin. Wouldnt put those in a hydro system at all.


----------



## bdt1981 (Apr 30, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Yep
> 
> herm issues
> poor germination
> ...


Lot of timez hermies are cause by user error. Some strains are more sensitive to stress than others and dont take much to herm them out


----------



## Harold Okie (Apr 30, 2019)

gr865 said:


> Amazing!!!
> Plant looks bare. Need some info on starting clones to root. TIA


I built this earlier this year.
View attachment 4325628 View attachment 4325630 View attachment 4325629View attachment 4325631[/QUOTE]
Spray Water how often? Nute levels and ph? 
Use any root start or ??
Plant clone size when u cut?
link to your site if info is there.
Many thanks from newbie


----------



## gr865 (Apr 30, 2019)

bdt1981 said:


> I built this earlier this year.
> View attachment 4325628 View attachment 4325630 View attachment 4325629View attachment 4325631


Eew bro fuckin slimy lookin. Wouldnt put those in a hydro system at all.[/QUOTE]

Got 34 out of 34 rooted, put 24 in the tent, in coco, vegged for 14 days, I think it was, and flipped.
23.6 zips smokable buds. No problems during the grow, so I am happy.

Only problem I had was I had the water too cool when I first put the clones in the machine so it took longer than expected to root.

That is not a very good pic.
Here are a few in good light.


----------



## gr865 (Apr 30, 2019)

Harold Okie said:


> I built this earlier this year.
> View attachment 4325628 View attachment 4325630 View attachment 4325629View attachment 4325631


Spray Water how often? Nute levels and ph?
Use any root start or ??
Plant clone size when u cut?
link to your site if info is there.
Many thanks from newbie[/QUOTE]

I believe my final water setting was 10 sec every 1.5 min.
No nutes or pH'ing.
Added rooting jell when I first put them in the cloner but you do not really need to, it washes right off.

*Big Buddha Cheese Part Deux*
https://www.rollitup.org/t/big-buddha-cheese-part-deux.983277/

Good luck.


----------



## Harold Okie (Apr 30, 2019)

bdt1981 said:


> I built this earlier this year.
> View attachment 4325628 View attachment 4325630 View attachment 4325629View attachment 4325631


Eew bro fuckin slimy lookin. Wouldnt put those in a hydro system at all.[/QUOTE]


gr865 said:


> Spray Water how often? Nute levels and ph?
> Use any root start or ??
> Plant clone size when u cut?
> link to your site if info is there.
> Many thanks from newbie


I believe my final water setting was 10 sec every 1.5 min.
No nutes or pH'ing.
Added rooting jell when I first put them in the cloner but you do not really need to, it washes right off.

*Big Buddha Cheese Part Deux*
https://www.rollitup.org/t/big-buddha-cheese-part-deux.983277/

Good luck.[/QUOTE]
THANKS


----------



## Renfro (Apr 30, 2019)

Easy and cheap clone rooting. Rapid rooters. I always get 100% rooted, no need for a pump of any kind. Just check them every couple days and make sure there is a little water in the tray. Use a dome of course. It's simple and no slime.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 30, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Easy and cheap clone rooting. Rapid rooters. I always get 100% rooted, no need for a pump of any kind. Just check them every couple days and make sure there is a little water in the tray. Use a dome of course. It's simple and no slime.


I'd sure like to know what I'm doing wrong, then. Cloning has always been a struggle for me.


----------



## Thundercat (Apr 30, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> I'd sure like to know what I'm doing wrong, then. Cloning has always been a struggle for me.


I clone exactly like Renfro just posted and have been almost non-stop for about 10 years now. Always 95% + success rate, just KISS. For the last 4-5 years I've been using raw aloe right from the plant as my only sort of rooting compound, it works great.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 30, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> I clone exactly like Renfro just posted and have been almost non-stop for about 10 years now. Always 95% + success rate, just KISS. For the last 4-5 years I've been using raw aloe right from the plant as my only sort of rooting compound, it works great.


I've struggled for a decade. I've tried different methods, different media, etc, etc. I just don't seem to have the knack.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 30, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> I'd sure like to know what I'm doing wrong, then. Cloning has always been a struggle for me.


Just grab a tray of rapid rooters and a dome. Use rooting gel on the cuts, moisten the cubes, always have a little water in the bottom of the tray, like just enough to fill the little channels. Keep the dome sealed tight until they get roots. There is a product called Vitagrow antiwilt that is awesome, not required but it sure keeps them perky.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 30, 2019)

Also, before you dip them in gel, lightly scrape the side of the last 1/2" of the stem, it promotes rooting faster that way.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 30, 2019)

No need to ph the water until you have roots and are feeding. I use RO water, but tap water works too.


----------



## ttystikk (Apr 30, 2019)

Renfro said:


> No need to ph the water until you have roots and are feeding. I use RO water, but tap water works too.


Yep, did all that. Got shit results anyway lol


----------



## Renfro (Apr 30, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Yep, did all that. Got shit results anyway lol


that sucks. it's always been so easy I have taken it for granted.

do your attempts wilt or just not root or do they damp off?


----------



## Thundercat (Apr 30, 2019)

Renfro said:


> that sucks. it's always been so easy I have taken it for granted.
> 
> do your attempts wilt or just not root or do they damp off?


lol that was my next question too .


----------



## Renfro (Apr 30, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> I'd sure like to know what I'm doing wrong, then. Cloning has always been a struggle for me.


FWIW I keep the rapid rooters soaked, not wrung out.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 30, 2019)

A seedling heat mat can really help speed up rooting. I don't use one but I have in the past and they do work.


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## Renfro (Apr 30, 2019)

I also root under my HID lighting, I just set them a little farther from the light. When they start getting roots I start feeding them and when they are in the trays I use a hydro pH of 5.8 and a PPM thats right around 1000, I don't feed them weak. I also take big cuttings, 6 inchers and I don't cut off much leaf since I am using the antiwilt and I am spacing them out in the tray. I just leave them alone aside from checking the tray water level. I do like to hit them with a light foliar feed about 5-7 days in but not more often than that, you want them to feel a need to make roots. If things are sealed up well you should have plenty of condensation on the inside of the dome.


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## Renfro (Apr 30, 2019)

Another trick to get clones to root is don't feed the mother plant before you take the cuttings, just plain water the day before you take cuts. this makes them a little hungry and quicker to root.


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## dr.tomb (Apr 30, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Yep, did all that. Got shit results anyway lol


My two biggest suggestions are...

1) don't think about them. When I was having issues it was when I was opening the dome every day, checking the bottoms for roots, and remisting. For example, I once got busy with a big trim and replant, forgetting about the clones for ~week, and come back to roots. 

2) temperature in the room. My veg area was always hovering around 19-21*c. Then I moved the cloning area inside and setup a small heater to keep the are slightly warmer than room temp, like 23-24c. I noticed my 80% result going to 99%.

Now if you want the break down of the exact method here is a link.

Follow it to a t and you'll get results. I do have a strain that doesn't show roots for 10 days, I've got one that has roots in 4.

For the record, Im not super sterile, I don't use razor blades, I don't double dunk in cloning gel and powder)

I take 6" cuts (just fit below the clear dome lid) with my trimming scissors. I try to get a node near the bottom of the 6" that I can cut off, if I don't have a node, I'll lightly scrape the stem before I place into cloning powder (unless I'm doing multiple plants at once, then I put into solo cups with water and then I bulk label, clone powder and place at one time), then into oasis cubes, no ph'ing.

Follow that link for the rest and you'll get the results.


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## Renfro (Apr 30, 2019)

dr.tomb said:


> 1) don't think about them


agreed



dr.tomb said:


> 2) temperature in the room.


yes, warmer temps help a lot!



dr.tomb said:


> For the record, Im not super sterile, I don't use razor blades, I don't double dunk in cloning gel and powder


same here


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## snippetysnip (May 1, 2019)

Ttystikk... have you tried air layering? 
Rooting your desired plant whilst still attached to the mother??
You should try it if you haven't already and if you don't have to generate big numbers..


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## DustyDuke (May 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Easy and cheap clone rooting. Rapid rooters. I always get 100% rooted, no need for a pump of any kind. Just check them every couple days and make sure there is a little water in the tray. Use a dome of course. It's simple and no slime.


Nice journal mate and setup. The bloke at my hydro shop pointed out the rapid rooters. I wasn’t sure about them but I haven’t cloned in over ten years. I’ll definitely give them a go seeing your results. Back then I just used rock wool and a heat mat with some clone x. I had about 90% success rate. But those rapid cubes seem the go cheers mate


----------



## growingforfun (May 2, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Yep, did all that. Got shit results anyway lol


I clone in dirt with no gel an get 100%... just work on your methods between the cut and placing them in media... I always find it funny when people struggle with what's honestly one of the easiest parts of growing.


----------



## Renfro (May 2, 2019)

growingforfun said:


> I always find it funny when people struggle


You sadistic fuck! lol


----------



## growingforfun (May 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> You sadistic fuck! lol


I mean.. it's honestly the easiest part of growing... I used to struggle too, for like the first cycle or 3 but since then... meh.

Cut, soak it water 30 min or more then put in dirt an a dome. It's easy as can be. No gels needed...


----------



## bdt1981 (May 2, 2019)

Harold Okie said:


> Eew bro fuckin slimy lookin. Wouldnt put those in a hydro system at all.



I believe my final water setting was 10 sec every 1.5 min.
No nutes or pH'ing.
Added rooting jell when I first put them in the cloner but you do not really need to, it washes right off.

*Big Buddha Cheese Part Deux*
https://www.rollitup.org/t/big-buddha-cheese-part-deux.983277/

Good luck.[/QUOTE]
THANKS[/QUOTE]
Imo and expirence clonee machines work best when u keep the pump on 24/7


----------



## bdt1981 (May 2, 2019)

gr865 said:


> Eew bro fuckin slimy lookin. Wouldnt put those in a hydro system at all.


Got 34 out of 34 rooted, put 24 in the tent, in coco, vegged for 14 days, I think it was, and flipped.
23.6 zips smokable buds. No problems during the grow, so I am happy.

Only problem I had was I had the water too cool when I first put the clones in the machine so it took longer than expected to root.

That is not a very good pic.
Here are a few in good light.
View attachment 4325700 View attachment 4325701[/QUOTE]
How long did it take to see roots? I swear the very first signs of roots was in 3 days on last run. It was small but it was there. After about 10 they were all rooted and at 17 they were insane long. But the growers were to lazy to transplant. Like after they started at about 7 days each day was so different from the last that i could hardly believe it


----------



## gr865 (May 2, 2019)

[/QUOTE]How long did it take to see roots? I swear the very first signs of roots was in 3 days on last run. It was small but it was there. After about 10 they were all rooted and at 17 they were insane long. But the growers were to lazy to transplant. Like after they started at about 7 days each day was so different from the last that i could hardly believe it[/QUOTE]

As a stated I had the water too cool, it took a total of 20 days.
1/1/19

1/11/19 Started showing noduels at day 11, this was two days after installing the aquarium heater @ 75 degrees.


1/20/19 Transplant day.


I think if I had put the heater in there at the start of the cycle I would have been able to transplant much sooner.

Next cloning cycle I will be more prepared, have bigger mothers to take larger clones.


----------



## gr865 (May 2, 2019)

I used RootRiot cubes got good results. The only problem is the plug does not breakdown and I think it holds too much moisture and cause stem problems.
I go straight into coco from here.
I switched from these to straight coco, cut clone let sit in glass of water for 24 hrs then plant in a coco Solo's, that have been saturated with RO, CaliMagic and pH'ed, using rooting jell and then lightly water. I mist them daily and every two days water the stem column. After 4 days I begin watering the entire Solo cup using the same products along with SubCulture II and Great White. Have a full cup of roots within a couple of weeks.
Here is a coco cup 16 days after putting the clone in the cup. Ready to transplant into the coco filled SmartPots.


----------



## ttystikk (May 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> that sucks. it's always been so easy I have taken it for granted.
> 
> do your attempts wilt or just not root or do they damp off?


Some of all the above lol


----------



## ttystikk (May 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> FWIW I keep the rapid rooters soaked, not wrung out.


That's when they would damp off and rot on me.


----------



## ttystikk (May 2, 2019)

growingforfun said:


> I mean.. it's honestly the easiest part of growing... I used to struggle too, for like the first cycle or 3 but since then... meh.
> 
> Cut, soak it water 30 min or more then put in dirt an a dome. It's easy as can be. No gels needed...


Yeah... I come back to dead cuts.

There's no doubt I'm overthinking it


----------



## Renfro (May 2, 2019)

I wish I could watch you do it, maybe I would catch something simple.


----------



## Renfro (May 2, 2019)

gr865 said:


> The only problem is the plug does not breakdown and I think it holds too much moisture and cause stem problems.


Not breaking down is one thing most hydro users love about them. As far as the moisture causing damp off, that wont be a problem once the stem "hardens". I personally have never in over 20 years had a rapid rooter damp off a cut.


----------



## growingforfun (May 2, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Yeah... I come back to dead cuts.
> 
> There's no doubt I'm overthinking it


Are you putting a humidity trap on them? I just put ziplock bags over the tops an it still works lolol i took a big ol 1 ft clone last week an put a plastic grocery bag over it an it's doing great. I think your trying too hard. 

Try the growingforfun tech an dont give a shit.

Cloning came from plants breaking an hitting the dirt in nature and living. Humans saw this and learned. This isnt science learned in a high tech lab, but natives in huts.


----------



## Jefferson1977 (May 2, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> I've struggled for a decade. I've tried different methods, different media, etc, etc. I just don't seem to have the knack.


You are not dumb and I am sure someone has mentioned but....water cloner? I made my own, use RO water and 1-2ml of bleach per 10G and never have had any issue. So healthy, no stress for the plants. Sorry if this is out of place Renfro. No Media, baskets except the poly pucks.


----------



## Renfro (May 2, 2019)

Jefferson1977 said:


> Sorry if this is out of place Renfro.


Youre good bro. We can discuss anything in this thread so long as it's not politics or religion lol. Plus I would love to be able to figure out what @ttystikk needs to do differently so he can root cuts.

I feel that being able to reliably clone is one of the most important skills a grower can have. I know I couldn't do what I do without it. Honestly the last time I sprouted a bean was like 15 years ago.


----------



## Jefferson1977 (May 2, 2019)

I feel instinctively with no knowledge of his history that it is the composition of the water. Did you know that soluble forms of excess nutrients can go through an RO filter? My 2cents/.

To make pure water without distillation you can use ozone and a venturi effect. Make RO, then combine ozone with water using venturi let sit for 20 minutes. It will be as pure as can be and he will be able to root.

I do this with a submersible pump, ozone generator with air stone submerged in water. There are much better ways. I am a cheapo.


----------



## Renfro (May 2, 2019)

I wonder if he has a DI post filter.


----------



## Jefferson1977 (May 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I wonder if he has a DI post filter.


Please everyone do not drink DI water. It is bad for your health.. It is okay for plants but not for you because we add what plants need: Brawndo. LOL just kidding. Seriously do not drink DI water.

I have DI Renfro and it got used up super quick I have 500 X the EPA limit for manganese. How to rid ones water of soluable manganese that passes through RO filters? Haha...Ozone makes the soluable molecules fall out of solution so they can be filtered. Tada! Perfect water. Then I discovered i could use the lakewater I live on instead and no filters. Obviously that is better :-0


----------



## Renfro (May 2, 2019)

He should just try a good bottled water that comes from another source. Preferably one that doesn't have the salts added for flavor.


----------



## Renfro (May 2, 2019)

TBH I have rooted cuts reliably in my tap water and it's usually around 225 - 250 PPM. Of course it's about whats in the water, ours actually has a significant and varying amount of calcium and magnesium so it could be used for growing but I like to filter it and know exactly what I am adding and be able to produce reliable results.

I have had cuts that were mailed to me and wilty, rooted them. I love that antiwilt product with the humidity out here in Colorado being so low. I just wonder what part of the process that I am taking for granted is missing in his situation. It has to be something simple.


----------



## Jefferson1977 (May 2, 2019)

In fact Ozone makes all soluable molecules fall out of h2o solution. it is the most powerful oxidizer known to man. Using a venturi effect you can make ozone saturated water that is good for 20-40 minutes. This water is good to kill any mold on your plants, and some bugs as well. Any form of rust etc. 

On your roots it will work wonders. Pythium and other bacteria cannot survive ozonated water. In hydro one practice is to have a water ozone generator and turn it on 5x 2 minutes a day or something like that depending on size of your reservoir. 

Anyways, bottled water did not work for my 100gallons. No one could tell me what to do to fix my water to grow hydroponically, but I figured it out and these are my suggestions.

As for simple, yeah it is simple. It's the water.


----------



## gr865 (May 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Not breaking down is one thing most hydro users love about them. As far as the moisture causing damp off, that wont be a problem once the stem "hardens". I personally have never in over 20 years had a rapid rooter damp off a cut.


I have not either, but lost a lot of sleep over it.


----------



## ttystikk (May 2, 2019)

Jefferson1977 said:


> You are not dumb and I am sure someone has mentioned but....water cloner? I made my own, use RO water and 1-2ml of bleach per 10G and never have had any issue. So healthy, no stress for the plants. Sorry if this is out of place Renfro. No Media, baskets except the poly pucks.


Built it, ran it, poor results. Bought one, ran it, inconsistent results.

I'm hopeless! Lol


----------



## ttystikk (May 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Youre good bro. We can discuss anything in this thread so long as it's not politics or religion lol. Plus I would love to be able to figure out what @ttystikk needs to do differently so he can root cuts.
> 
> I feel that being able to reliably clone is one of the most important skills a grower can have. I know I couldn't do what I do without it. Honestly the last time I sprouted a bean was like 15 years ago.


Agreed. It's very frustrating.


----------



## Jefferson1977 (May 2, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Agreed. It's very frustrating.


Use ozone from RO to make real water and use that. It will work 100%.


----------



## ttystikk (May 2, 2019)

Jefferson1977 said:


> I feel instinctively with no knowledge of his history that it is the composition of the water. Did you know that soluble forms of excess nutrients can go through an RO filter? My 2cents/.
> 
> To make pure water without distillation you can use ozone and a venturi effect. Make RO, then combine ozone with water using venturi let sit for 20 minutes. It will be as pure as can be and he will be able to root.
> 
> I do this with a submersible pump, ozone generator with air stone submerged in water. There are much better ways. I am a cheapo.


Water here is extremely clean right from the tap; only EC .05


----------



## Jefferson1977 (May 2, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Water here is extremely clean right from the tap; only EC .05


As I mentioned earlier EC does not measure soluble nutes, like for example soluble forms of Manganese. It was only by testing my water I found out my water contained manganese 500 x the EPA limit in a form that is soluble and passes through RO filters. Using ozone I made it precipitate as a solid in the water and could filter it with carbon. Science wins!


----------



## ttystikk (May 2, 2019)

Jefferson1977 said:


> As I mentioned earlier EC does not measure soluble nutes, like for example soluble forms of Manganese. It was only by testing my water I found out my water contained manganese 500 x the EPA limit in a form that is soluble and passes through RO filters. Using ozone I made it precipitate as a solid in the water and could filter it with carbon. Science wins!


That would show up in adult plants and it doesn't.

It must also be said that others use the same local water supply and do fine with their clones.


----------



## Jefferson1977 (May 2, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> That would show up in adult plants and it doesn't.
> 
> It must also be said that others use the same local water supply and do fine with their clones.


It showed up in my plants. Who are you to say it didn't? I live in the Canadian shield and most of my water passes through granite. I definitely noticed it and corrected it.


----------



## Jefferson1977 (May 2, 2019)

Jefferson1977 said:


> It showed up in my plants. Who are you to say it didn't? I live in the Canadian shield and most of my water passes through granite. I definitely noticed it and corrected it.


And my point is EC does not measure everything in water.


----------



## gr865 (May 2, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Water here is extremely clean right from the tap; only EC .05


And I am fucking jealous! LOL


----------



## ttystikk (May 2, 2019)

gr865 said:


> And I am fucking jealous! LOL


It's a big reason why growers come to Colorado to grow; clean water.


----------



## ttystikk (May 2, 2019)

Jefferson1977 said:


> And my point is EC does not measure everything in water.


And your point is well taken. Yet I'm reasonably sure my troubles can't be traced to the water, or others would be having problems as well. Alas, I'm the weakest link...


----------



## Jefferson1977 (May 2, 2019)

I dunno, I guess I am not one to sit down and say I suck. I will just make it work no matter what. And I can't believe you are one to just say, "well that's me, I suck", lol.


----------



## ttystikk (May 2, 2019)

Jefferson1977 said:


> I dunno, I guess I am not one to sit down and say I suck. I will just make it work no matter what. And I can't believe you are one to just say, "well that's me, I suck", lol.


I'm still trying, believe me!


----------



## bdt1981 (May 3, 2019)

How long did it take to see roots? I swear the very first signs of roots was in 3 days on last run. It was small but it was there. After about 10 they were all rooted and at 17 they were insane long. But the growers were to lazy to transplant. Like after they started at about 7 days each day was so different from the last that i could hardly believe it[/QUOTE]

As a stated I had the water too cool, it took a total of 20 days.
1/1/19
View attachment 4326928
1/11/19 Started showing noduels at day 11, this was two days after installing the aquarium heater @ 75 degrees.
View attachment 4326929

1/20/19 Transplant day.
View attachment 4326930

I think if I had put the heater in there at the start of the cycle I would have been able to transplant much sooner.

Next cloning cycle I will be more prepared, have bigger mothers to take larger clones.[/QUOTE]
The pump alone will keep the water at 79 or 80 degrees if u keep it on 24/7. At least mine did.


----------



## Renfro (May 3, 2019)

I usually let mine root for about 20 days but they are a little slower being cut in flower for monster cropping. I also want really long roots when I transplant otherwise they can sorta just stagnate for a while instead of taking off.


----------



## ChiefRunningPhist (May 3, 2019)

Anyone using Ful-Power?


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## bdt1981 (May 3, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I usually let mine root for about 20 days but they are a little slower being cut in flower for monster cropping. I also want really long roots when I transplant otherwise they can sorta just stagnate for a while instead of taking off.


I had r9ots 18 to 24 inches at least after 17 days. But i clipped them to make easier to transplant. I noticed a somewhat slow start on taking off tho.


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## Renfro (May 4, 2019)

bdt1981 said:


> I had r9ots 18 to 24 inches at least after 17 days. But i clipped them to make easier to transplant. I noticed a somewhat slow start on taking off tho.


Yeah dont clip the roots, just make them fit. I like to leave about an inch and a half of soil not in the pot, spread the roots so they cover the exposed soil in multiple directions, even swirl them, then add the remaining soil and water. They have roots going down from all directions then. Use big pots too, that helps. lol


----------



## Renfro (May 4, 2019)

So I think I am gonna try GH Ripen on this cycle.

https://generalhydroponics.com/ripen

Any thoughts? Seems to be right up my alley since it has the high P and K.


----------



## bdt1981 (May 5, 2019)

bdt1981 said:


> How long did it take to see roots? I swear the very first signs of roots was in 3 days on last run. It was small but it was there. After about 10 they were all rooted and at 17 they were insane long. But the growers were to lazy to transplant. Like after they started at about 7 days each day was so different from the last that i could hardly believe it


As a stated I had the water too cool, it took a total of 20 days.
1/1/19
View attachment 4326928
1/11/19 Started showing noduels at day 11, this was two days after installing the aquarium heater @ 75 degrees.
View attachment 4326929

1/20/19 Transplant day.
View attachment 4326930

I think if I had put the heater in there at the start of the cycle I would have been able to transplant much sooner.

Next cloning cycle I will be more prepared, have bigger mothers to take larger clones.[/QUOTE]
The pump alone will keep the water at 79 or 80 degrees if u keep it on 24/7. At least mine did.[/QUOTE]
Larger clones prob better. What would u consider a large cutting? 8inches? 12inches or more?


----------



## diggs99 (May 8, 2019)

What's up bro?

Hope all is well.


----------



## Renfro (May 8, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> What's up bro?
> 
> Hope all is well.


I'm good, how are you doing?

Been working hard on a few projects non grow related around here. Otherwise just the same old shit, different day lol. Girl and I dropped some lucy and went to a pink floyd laser show the other day. It was awesome, we met a few people there that we just made eye contact with and it was sorta unspoken that we all knew that we all were frying. We had one of her friends that doesn't do anything but weed drive us and we bought her a ticket. Hadn't done that in many years. Usually we just drop at home.


----------



## diggs99 (May 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I'm good, how are you doing?
> 
> 
> Been working hard on a few projects non grow related around here. Otherwise just the same old shit, different day lol. Girl and I dropped some lucy and went to a pink floyd laser show the other day. It was awesome, we met a few people there that we just made eye contact with and it was sorta unspoken that we all knew that we all were frying. We had one of her friends that doesn't do anything but weed drive us and we bought her a ticket. Hadn't done that in many years. Usually we just drop at home.


Haha nice, sounds like you both had a good time.

I'm doing good bud, similar to you, busy doing stuff non grow related.

I been swamped with work lately, the weather is getting nice now so my crazy busy season begins. Plants are cruising along, new room is waiting for them to be done and then I'll put it all together.

I did just pop 10 beans from @Useful Seeds in preparation for the new room.

How's your grow doing?


----------



## Renfro (May 8, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> How's your grow doing?


It is doing very well. I need to unlazy my ass and get pics and post an update soon. This run looks like it's gonna be a 40+ pounder. Some of the bigger tops are starting to just lay down on the top trellis to bask in the light.


----------



## diggs99 (May 8, 2019)

Renfro said:


> It is doing very well. I need to unlazy my ass and get pics and post an update soon. This run looks like it's gonna be a 40+ pounder. Some of the bigger tops are starting to just lay down on the top trellis to bask in the light.


Nice, look forward to seeing the next update.


----------



## Renfro (May 8, 2019)

I just found a jar from a few harvests ago. It was some Juicy Fruit bud that I had water cured in cold RO water for 48 hours, re-dried, jarred and forgot about. The water during the cure was changed out once at 24 hours of soak.

WOW. Totally smells like juicy fruit gum, exactly. Taste is the same. Best tasting fruit strain I have ever smoked. Hits super smooth. Take massive bong rips and immediately feel the sativa "eye". Buzz is so clear and energetic. I took a pic with a tiny nug of gg4 next to it. The water cure takes all the chlorophyll out so it leaves the bud brown, like curing to the max. Makes for such a smooth hit with pure terpene goodness.


----------



## hantastic1 (May 8, 2019)

that nug on the right dont look right, almost like its got mold


----------



## Renfro (May 8, 2019)

hantastic1 said:


> that nug on the right dont look right, almost like its got mold


no mold. it was water cured tho.


----------



## Renfro (May 10, 2019)

Day 52 Update: So things are moving along, same shit different day. lol Watering frequency is at 28 hours and has been so for a while. Each strain has a pattern of water consumption through flower. Tracking the glue this round I have written down the dates and times of their waterings and have been able to see their pattern. I can go into detail on that in a later post if there is any interest. I would like to enter all the waterings into excel and have it do some magic. Anyways I digress... On to the photos..

Well it won't let me upload photos right now, the site is acting up though so I will try again later.

Sorry folks


----------



## mr. childs (May 10, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I just found a jar from a few harvests ago. It was some Juicy Fruit bud that I had water cured in cold RO water for 48 hours, re-dried, jarred and forgot about. The water during the cure was changed out once at 24 hours of soak.
> 
> WOW. Totally smells like juicy fruit gum, exactly. Taste is the same. Best tasting fruit strain I have ever smoked. Hits super smooth. Take massive bong rips and immediately feel the sativa "eye". Buzz is so clear and energetic. I took a pic with a tiny nug of gg4 next to it. The water cure takes all the chlorophyll out so it leaves the bud brown, like curing to the max. Makes for such a smooth hit with pure terpene goodness.
> 
> View attachment 4329930


think i could water cure in fiji or voss or evian ?


----------



## ttystikk (May 10, 2019)

mr. childs said:


> think i could water cure in fiji or voss or evian ?


I wouldn't think so- if you read the labels they have a lot of dissolved minerals in them.


----------



## Renfro (May 10, 2019)

Finally got the images to upload. 

Room A:

     

CMH Plant:

 

Dark shot of room B:


----------



## mr. childs (May 10, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> I wouldn't think so- if you read the labels they have a lot of dissolved minerals in them.


like water curing in pelligrino... i see the labels & what theyve added, but would the water have the same effect as certain soils do with particular terroirs ? what if you could import soil, although i know it wouldnt be cost effective at all.


----------



## ttystikk (May 11, 2019)

mr. childs said:


> like water curing in pelligrino... i see the labels & what theyve added, but would the water have the same effect as certain soils do with particular terroirs ? what if you could import soil, although i know it wouldnt be cost effective at all.


I can't see how smoking minerals is in any way desirable.


----------



## Renfro (May 11, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> I can't see how smoking minerals is in any way desirable.


Don't knock it until you have tried it! lol j/k


----------



## Renfro (May 11, 2019)

If you wanna water cure in bottled water use distilled. Honestly though the bottled drinking water would be better than tap water and I have cured in that before, long time ago.


----------



## diggs99 (May 11, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Finally got the images to upload.
> 
> Room A:
> 
> ...


Looking great man, that last pic really shows the massive kolas/trees


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## Renfro (May 11, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Looking great man, that last pic really shows the massive kolas/trees


Thanks bro. That spindly lemon skunk in room b on the left of the pic all tall. That plant got massive only to make small weight. Will see what she does though, maybe shes a late bloomer.


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## mr. childs (May 11, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> I can't see how smoking minerals is in any way desirable.


you dont think minerals are in everything you ingest ?


----------



## ttystikk (May 12, 2019)

mr. childs said:


> you dont think minerals are in everything you ingest ?


The composition of those minerals matters a great deal;

Hydrogen in water is fine. Sulfur in cannabis resin is good.

Hydrogen sulfide will kill you in a single breath.


None of the minerals in bottled water belong in your lungs. Any first year chemist knows this. Your assertion is frankly a bit silly and a lot ignorant.


----------



## Renfro (May 12, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Hydrogen sulfide will kill you in a single breath.


Hey if you don't cough you don't get off! lol


----------



## max420thc (May 12, 2019)

dr.tomb said:


> That's definitely doable..hes running 19.2kw of light. That means he pulls 2.3 to 2.5p a light. I've hit. 1.9p on one of my grows, and i could definitely believe I can and will hit 3p per 1000w one day with the right strain.


Its doable , but he does not have enough depth to do it ,


----------



## mr. childs (May 12, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> The composition of those minerals matters a great deal;
> 
> Hydrogen in water is fine. Sulfur in cannabis resin is good.
> 
> ...


 i dont find it to be ignorant at all, i quite enjoy fiji & evian water, and sometimes pelligrino


----------



## thenasty1 (May 12, 2019)

max420thc said:


> Its doable , but he does not have enough depth to do it ,


3+ per is most certainly possible, even under 8 ft ceilings. with de, at least


----------



## max420thc (May 12, 2019)

thenasty1 said:


> 3+ per is most certainly possible, even under 8 ft ceilings. with de, at least


More then that is possible, I know a guy who gets 3.5 consistently under double Ender's and he grows nothing but OG strains .
I seen a guy get 4 lbs off one plant in a 100 gallon drain to waste 1 1000 watt HPS(toasty) I can do over 4 lbs on a lamp , so could the guy who got the 4 lbs from one plant , 
I thought he was crazy to fuck with the one plant training it for so long , he didnt have a plant count limit so he was justt doing it to prove a point , not because he had to. He could have thrown a dozen plants under the same light with no veg and get the same or better results. To get to the numbers he is trying four he has 60 gallons of growing media , a general rule of thumb , outdoors is 100 gallons of dirt will produce around 4 lbs of product ,3 months or so of veg, some plants can do more, some less , usually in hydro you can produce about the same weight in dirt with half the growing material, in my opinion , and i am not saying it cant be done , he has more then enough light to produce his desired outcome , what he lacks is root mass and and the plants are to thick to alow deeper penetration into the plants for the bud to develop deep enough into the plant to develop the weight he is looking to get. Each ten gallon container he has has to produce over 3.5 lbs per plant in ten gallons of material , can it be done ? Sure , but it takes a lot more than ten gallons of root space, in actuallity with the lights he has on these plants with enough root space he could be getting over double his production , just not in that amount of root area. Just my opinion. This is not knocking anything being done evertthing this man is doing takes a pile of hard work , investment to accomplish , he is obviously a very good grower that works hard at it.


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## Renfro (May 12, 2019)

Making me wanna try a run with some larger pots. I just need to find ones that are wider not taller and that I can plumb to the drain without standing water. Any ideas on some 15 or 20 gallon pots that would work for me?

I do know that when I went from 5 gallon to 10 my yields increased. The plants in 5 gallon buckets used to want water about every 18 hours at their peak, with these 10 gallon ones they were at 19 hours peaked this round, so perhaps I could get even better yields if I can setup something that drains to waste cleanly and doesn't add height to my equation. I would totally be down to give it a go.

Lets all get creative. Help me find the right buckets! I will buy them and give them a go!

My current 10 gallon buckets are 17 inches tall and double stacked for drain collection they end up at 21 inches tall from the floor to the rim.


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## ttystikk (May 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Making me wanna try a run with some larger pots. I just need to find ones that are wider not taller and that I can plumb to the drain without standing water. Any ideas on some 15 or 20 gallon pots that would work for me?
> 
> I do know that when I went from 5 gallon to 10 my yields increased. The plants in 5 gallon buckets used to want water about every 18 hours at their peak, with these 10 gallon ones they were at 19 hours peaked this round, so perhaps I could get even better yields if I can setup something that drains to waste cleanly and doesn't add height to my equation. I would totally be down to give it a go.
> 
> ...


I ran 5 gallon buckets that sat in deep trays. The trays would fill up when I watered but the next day everything would be dry.

The biggest I pulled from that was 27oz dry.


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## Thundercat (May 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Making me wanna try a run with some larger pots. I just need to find ones that are wider not taller and that I can plumb to the drain without standing water. Any ideas on some 15 or 20 gallon pots that would work for me?
> 
> I do know that when I went from 5 gallon to 10 my yields increased. The plants in 5 gallon buckets used to want water about every 18 hours at their peak, with these 10 gallon ones they were at 19 hours peaked this round, so perhaps I could get even better yields if I can setup something that drains to waste cleanly and doesn't add height to my equation. I would totally be down to give it a go.
> 
> ...


These are a little taller, but almost 3x the size so perhaps just not filling them to the top would get you the height you need?
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/rubbermaid-brute-28-gallon-square-red-trash-can-and-lid/69028RDTCKIT.html


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## Renfro (May 12, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> These are a little taller, but almost 3x the size so perhaps just not filling them to the top would get you the height you need?
> https://www.webstaurantstore.com/rubbermaid-brute-28-gallon-square-red-trash-can-and-lid/69028RDTCKIT.html


Once stacked in a pair they look like they would add about 8 or 9 inches, yeah I could fill the top one lower though. So not completely out of consideration. I will save that link.


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## Thundercat (May 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Once stacked in a pair they look like they would add about 8 or 9 inches, yeah I could fill the top one lower though. So not completely out of consideration. I will save that link.


its just the first ones I came across when you asked, but that sort of bucket is what I pictured. I bet if you stacked them and cut the inner bucket to the same height as the outer bucket you could save more vertical space.


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## ttystikk (May 12, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> These are a little taller, but almost 3x the size so perhaps just not filling them to the top would get you the height you need?
> https://www.webstaurantstore.com/rubbermaid-brute-28-gallon-square-red-trash-can-and-lid/69028RDTCKIT.html


I preferred tuffboxes because of their lower profile. Still 27 gallons.


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## Renfro (May 12, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> I preferred tuffboxes because of their lower profile. Still 27 gallons.


You got a link? Do they stack good like buckets?


----------



## max420thc (May 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Making me wanna try a run with some larger pots. I just need to find ones that are wider not taller and that I can plumb to the drain without standing water. Any ideas on some 15 or 20 gallon pots that would work for me?
> 
> I do know that when I went from 5 gallon to 10 my yields increased. The plants in 5 gallon buckets used to want water about every 18 hours at their peak, with these 10 gallon ones they were at 19 hours peaked this round, so perhaps I could get even better yields if I can setup something that drains to waste cleanly and doesn't add height to my equation. I would totally be down to give it a go.
> 
> ...


They make live stock water containers yoi can get them at tractor supply company or on line , they are short to the floor to allow more cieling hight , many also come with drains , a plus , you can get them up to 100 gallons or more , you could if you wanted to plant 2 plants in them or three , I think I would go between 30 and 50 gallon per plant to achieve the numbers you want ,


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## max420thc (May 12, 2019)

some of the latest pics I took


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## Renfro (May 12, 2019)

max420thc said:


> I think I would go between 30 and 50 gallon per plant to achieve the numbers you want


Well I can get those numbers now but more would be cool. I think I don't wanna haul that much soil up and down the stairs tho lol. I think 20 is my max.


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## max420thc (May 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well I can get those numbers now but more would be cool. I think I don't wanna haul that much soil up and down the stairs tho lol. I think 20 is my max.


Simple,do not grow in soil ,


----------



## ttystikk (May 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> You got a link? Do they stack good like buckets?


I just got mine at Home Depot and Walmart. Yes they stack.


----------



## thenasty1 (May 13, 2019)

seconding (or thirding?) the storage tote suggestion


----------



## Renfro (May 13, 2019)

So I still don't see any pollen sacs forming on my seed experiment in the tent so I am suspecting my silver nitrate solution I ordered from amazon is weak or dead. I am gonna stop applying it for this round and just let the flowers finish out. Try again next time.


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## Renfro (May 13, 2019)

I am definitely considering the storage tote idea for the round after next, I already have the plants in 10 gallon for the next round. With a tote I could definitely go wider and not taller to get the added capacity. This would be great because it gets old having to water so often lol.


----------



## arcalion (May 19, 2019)

Damn totally just finished reading this entire thread so amazing; no wonder I see so many people look up to you and your skins renfro!
I was curious because I'm doing an ebb and flow and I've been trying to hit a constant 2lb+ each 5x5 but I've been having trouble
My veg room I've got two 4.5x4.5 tables with 600watts each, currently a swamp bucket trying to get my humidity up since it's usually low 30% now I got it around 40s. Have 3 good mothers but it's definitely finicky getting them to root since when I put the domes on it gets pretty moist on my rockwool.
My whole plan is to do 2lb+ every 3 weeks. My flower room has 3 5x5 tables currently bought 40 peyote cookie seeds and I'm legit going to give them about a 30day(40-45days in total) I got a set of cob lights that run at 850w each light and one HPS running at 1100w. Currently havent hit anywhere close to 2lbs, I wish I could do 3lbs that would be sweet but its been tough! 
I got some clones going right now on one of my tables about 70+ of them and they look amazing. Cant really tell how much it could yield but they're praying to the HPS. Any advice on constantly hitting 2+ a light? 
Flood&Drain rockwool 6inch 40seeds/75+clones a table


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## Renfro (May 19, 2019)

Well genetics is gonna be key. Also tuning the timing of everything is key. You prefer a strain that will stretch really good when you flip it. You want a strain that likes to make big colas because in a SoG the idea is to just have a big canopy of colas. Prune all the bottom branches at about day 20 of 12/12. Use some hortitrellis to support the tops, not that saggy string netting. With 6 inch trellis you want four plants per sq/ft, one cola to pop up in each 6 inch square.

Root the cuts REALLY good. I would use rapid rooters, a seedling heat mat and a really well sealed dome. Take BIG 6 Inch cuttings! If you are good you should get 100% rooted and have really long bundles of roots that you need to take care when pushing the rapid rooters up out of the trays. The roots will grow together in the tray channels. Just gently separate them, they should be white and healthy. I have pulled 2 lbs a light in 4x4 with 6 inch square pots with hydroton. They did get pretty rootbound by the end of a 60 day cycle, with no veg. I would prefer using hydroton in small net pots through a tray cover with a coco mat in the bottom of the tray. Just let the roots go wild under the cover. Net pots are there just to hold the plant up so small means less rocks to wash. You may wanna put some PVC legs on the bottom of the cover so it won't sag in the tray. Probably just glue them on.

Get a good mother plant or plants so you can cut a bunch of clones that will be identical and grow the same. When potting take any plants that are a little lagging and put them in the middle of the light footprint. This way they end up as a stadium arrangement with shorter plants in the middle but you shouldn't have this issue, cloning is key.

Once you know exactly how much to veg them and how long to flower them to get about 20 - 21 grams per plant you will have a fine tuned machine with clones cut and 20 day rooted ready to go as soon as the tray is harvested.

Also have a large reservoir thats low, save that vertical space for plants, light and space between them. My 20 - 21 gram Shiva plants did no veg, straight to 12/12 after potted and they ended up as 40 - 44 inch tall lolipops. Big cola and maybe two fat nugs below that. All the rest was pruned off at day 20. That strain rocked though for a SoG. Big colas, big stretch. She was done in 60 days so I had a 20 day cycle, every 20 days chop and reload the tray, cut clones.

Vitagrow Antiwilt is a sweet product for cloning. That and some cloning gel is what I use with the Rapid Rooters.

Have healthy moms, keep them bug free.

A good reservoir design is to build a frame the size of the tray out of 2x12 lumber and lag bolts, line it with pond liner. Then you can put some braces across the top to set the tray on, I like strut channel for that. Now you have a large reservoir that you can set the tray directly on and its only about a foot from the floor to the tray bottom.

I hope all that made sense.


----------



## Renfro (May 20, 2019)

So my buddy bought one of these Divine Gelato #3 cuts:

https://westcoastconnoisseurs.com/product/in-house-genetics-divine-gelato/

I hope he will toss a cut my way when he gets his mom putting out.


----------



## gr865 (May 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So my buddy bought one of these Divine Gelato #3 cuts:
> https://westcoastconnoisseurs.com/product/in-house-genetics-divine-gelato/
> I hope he will toss a cut my way when he gets his mom putting out.


Holy Shit, $900 for one clone! They don't give the THC/CBD info.


----------



## max420thc (May 20, 2019)

A elite cut, gelotos one of my favorites , normally elite cuts are very productive , high quality , it's worth every penny ,


----------



## ttystikk (May 20, 2019)

max420thc said:


> A elite cut, gelotos one of my favorites , normally elite cuts are very productive , high quality , it's worth every penny ,


Fair enough. I would not think that $900 is a fair price in any case.


----------



## diggs99 (May 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So my buddy bought one of these Divine Gelato #3 cuts:
> 
> https://westcoastconnoisseurs.com/product/in-house-genetics-divine-gelato/
> 
> I hope he will toss a cut my way when he gets his mom putting out.


Nice, at those prices, obv its a legit producer of the fire . I hope you get a cut for yourself bro. Be a nice addition to the garden.


wheres the update? those fkn kolas gotta be swole as fk right now lol


----------



## augusto1 (May 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So my buddy bought one of these Divine Gelato #3 cuts:
> 
> https://westcoastconnoisseurs.com/product/in-house-genetics-divine-gelato/
> 
> I hope he will toss a cut my way when he gets his mom putting out.


Where do they ship from?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Renfro (May 20, 2019)

augusto1 said:


> Where do they ship from?
> Thanks in advance.


Cali


----------



## Renfro (May 20, 2019)

My buddy has a shit ton of fire genetics. He was going over some of it and among many others he has:

MAC1 by Capulator
Gelato 33 x Wedding Cake
Capulator Freezer Burn x Lemon fire
Amnesia Lemon Kush
East Coast Panama Chunk x i95
Kushmints Rabbid hippie Cut
Punch Breath
Mimosa
PB Souffle (DoSiDos x Lava Cake)
Orange Cookies x Wedding Cake
LA Kush Cake
Kush Mints x Wedding Cake
Hidden Pastry (Secret Cookie x Kush Mints)
Mendo Cookies x Gelato 33
Dozizoz ((Zkittlez x ZoZiZoZ)


----------



## diggs99 (May 21, 2019)

Renfro said:


> My buddy has a shit ton of fire genetics. He was going over some of it and among many others he has:
> 
> MAC1 by Capulator
> Gelato 33 x Wedding Cake
> ...


Oh wow, hes a fire hoarder lol


----------



## Renfro (May 21, 2019)

Day 63 update (sorry I didn't use the glasses for the photos so the HPS yellow is back):

       

Sorry it's been a while since a good update. My girl hasn't been feeling well and I have been taking care of her so I haven't felt like taking pics.

You can see a few colas that decided to lay down on the trellis to bask in light lol More will likely do that over this last week.

Overhead lights are currently at 75%, CO2 PPM reduced to 800, temps are down to around 84F. The CMH light isn't supposed to be dimmed so it's still at 1kW, there is some foxtailing under that light, proving that you can get foxtails from too much light, it's not just heat that can cause it.

The Do Si Dos was showing about 20% honey trichomes at day 62 and a few amber so I chopped her main tops on day 63 and left the bottom half of the plant to go a little bit longer. Partly because I want to show my girl how letting it go longer to get more amber makes for a more sedative high and partly because I am not in a hurry to get this one out of the way since she finished early. She finished about this time last round so she is consistent so far. I think she may have turned out a little more aromatic this round. She produced nice dense nugs for a plant that wasn't in direct light. Here is a shot of a few her nugs that I cut on day 62:

 
(Dunno why it's upside down, it isn't on my PC)

Almost forgot here is the Wedding Cake and the Triple Nova plants:

 

I got those cuts from the same buddy that has the fire hoard. He said that he will toss me one of those Divine Gelato #3 cuts when he gets some growth the cut he bought, here is a shot he sent me of what it can do:

 

Anyways, time to go water. Have a great day and happy growing!


----------



## diggs99 (May 21, 2019)

Big difference since last update for sure. Those kolas have fattened up real nice, this room looks much more full this time around. Nice job as usual bro. 

whats the nose and frostiness like on the Wedding cake? its on my short list for next mother run

Divine Gelato #3 looks ridiculous , cant wait to see you grow that shit out.


----------



## Renfro (May 21, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> whats the nose and frostiness like on the Wedding cake?


Some day 63 closeups:

 
Durban Poison, she is starting to frost up more, the smell is very intense, sweet and I sorta think it smells like a solvent my dad used to have around when he ran color offset printing presses in the garage. lol

 
Wedding cake, she smells sorta skunky, spicy, sweet. hard to describe but strong dankness indeed.

 
Triple Nova, she stayed short and didn't get a lot of light but her nugs are dense and frosty. Very much a berry type aroma to me, my girl says more like cantalope.

 
Just a glue nug from the lower side next to the triple nova

 
Las Vegas Lemon Skunk: She smells very lemony and sweet, very stong lemon like a lemon rind, limonene terps are abundant. Just a tiny hint of skunk.


----------



## Renfro (May 21, 2019)

I knew I was forgetting one, here is the Kandy Kush. Definitely a different pheno than the one I used to have. This one has the pine and the diesel smell is starting to come on but it lacks that lemony terps that the other cut I had would put off as well.


----------



## Renfro (May 22, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Fair enough. I would not think that $900 is a fair price in any case.


I have given that some thought and here is my take. If the breeder shotgunned a bunch of beans and picked the best phenotype, to me that is truly worth every penny. With that in your stable you can run as many future crops as you desire. I think it's greedy yes, but hey that's capitalism at it's finest. The market decides what price point is bearable and with so many big commercial growers in the game now the market is there. I have to be honest, if I were selling those cuts I would want to get top dollar lol.


----------



## diggs99 (May 22, 2019)

On looks alone, ill take that Wedding cake, she appears nice and frosty.

That glue nug also has a touch of frost lol


----------



## ttystikk (May 23, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I have given that some thought and here is my take. If the breeder shotgunned a bunch of beans and picked the best phenotype, to me that is truly worth every penny. With that in your stable you can run as many future crops as you desire. I think it's greedy yes, but hey that's capitalism at it's finest. The market decides what price point is bearable and with so many big commercial growers in the game now the market is there. I have to be honest, if I were selling those cuts I would want to get top dollar lol.


I do see your point.


----------



## Renfro (May 23, 2019)

Got my new can coolie today! OOOOOH WEEEEE!

 

LOL


----------



## Renfro (May 25, 2019)

So I smoked a small nug of the Do Si Dos that I cut at day 61. Really nice dense nugs, frosty and lighter green with orange hairs. Smells a lot like an OG Kush but not as intense, hits are smooth, hashy, kushy with a hint of skunk. Buzz is uplifting, energetic, creative but you may forget what you were doing.


----------



## madra (May 25, 2019)

Renfro said:


> but you may forget what you were doing.


Story of my fucking life


----------



## ttystikk (May 25, 2019)

What were we talking about?


----------



## Renfro (May 25, 2019)

Here is a pic of some dry Do Si Dos:

 

A couple day 67 shots of room A:


----------



## diggs99 (May 25, 2019)

Looking good bro.

How many days they got left you figure?
Swole as fk lol


----------



## Renfro (May 25, 2019)

I will probably start chopping the glue in 3 or 4 days, but it will take a while to get it all down. The durban may come down tomorrow, I want to let the weddings cake and triple nova go longer, not sure about the lemon skunk or kandy.


----------



## Renfro (May 25, 2019)

We did cut a few sample buds off the Wedding Cake, Triple Nova, Kandy Kush, Lemon Skunk and Durban Poison. That Lemon Skunk smells so lemony I can't wait to smoke some. The wedding cake looks so frosty it's almost fake looking. Triple Nova definitely has the fruity / berry thing going strong.


----------



## Thundercat (May 25, 2019)

Renfro said:


> We did cut a few sample buds off the Wedding Cake, Triple Nova, Kandy Kush, Lemon Skunk and Durban Poison. That Lemon Skunk smells so lemony I can't wait to smoke some. The wedding cake looks so frosty it's almost fake looking. Triple Nova definitely has the fruity / berry thing going strong.


Yum sounds like it's gonna be a tasty harvest!


----------



## Couch_Lock (May 25, 2019)

The party is at Renfro's this spring. My man will have his fingers workin it soon, trimmin his ass off!

That Lemon Skunk and kandy Kush are some tasty herbs, bro.


----------



## DrGreenthumbVT (May 28, 2019)

Renfro said:


> My buddy has a shit ton of fire genetics. He was going over some of it and among many others he has:
> 
> MAC1 by Capulator
> Gelato 33 x Wedding Cake
> ...



Any chance he or you can share that MAC1 by Cap? It's on my bucket list...


----------



## Renfro (May 30, 2019)

Day 72 - Time to start chopping. My girl is in the hospital right now and it's the worst timing for a harvest. Grrr... I have been at the hospital a lot with her and to make things worse my back is flared up, sleeping in hospital chairs hasn't done it any favors. So I have turned off all the side lighting and the overhead is all dimmed (except the 1kW CMH that can't be dimmed). Anyways I grabbed a few pics:


----------



## diggs99 (May 30, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Day 72 - Time to start chopping. My girl is in the hospital right now and it's the worst timing for a harvest. Grrr... I have been at the hospital a lot with her and to make things worse my back is flared up, sleeping in hospital chairs hasn't done it any favors. So I have turned off all the side lighting and the overhead is all dimmed (except the 1kW CMH that can't be dimmed). Anyways I grabbed a few pics:
> 
> View attachment 4342141 View attachment 4342143 View attachment 4342149 View attachment 4342150 View attachment 4342152 View attachment 4342153 View attachment 4342160 View attachment 4342161 View attachment 4342151 View attachment 4342157



Looking great bro. Nice harvest coming this round for sure.


----------



## Renfro (May 30, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Looking great bro. Nice harvest coming this round for sure.


I hope I don't run out of bread trays.


----------



## diggs99 (May 30, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I hope I don't run out of bread trays.


lol thats ridiculous 

All the best with everything bud, hope your girl is feeling better and your back holds up.


----------



## Renfro (May 30, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> lol thats ridiculous
> 
> All the best with everything bud, hope your girl is feeling better and your back holds up.


Thanks brother. They have her in the hospital now. She is pretty miserable. Prayers welcomed, she is my life.


----------



## Thundercat (May 30, 2019)

Dude I'm so sorry to hear about the health troubles. I hope you and your girl are feeling better soon man!


----------



## Renfro (May 30, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> Dude I'm so sorry to hear about the health troubles. I hope you and your girl are feeling better soon man!


Thanks brother.


----------



## Thundercat (May 30, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Thanks brother.


Dude for sure. I wish I was closer so I could offer you a helping hand. Sadly I'm like 20hours of driving away, so not very practical .

Obviously the garden looks amazing btw hehe.


----------



## augusto1 (May 30, 2019)

I hope each new day brings you and your girl closer to a full and speedy recovery.


----------



## Renfro (May 30, 2019)

augusto1 said:


> I hope each new day brings you and your girl closer to a full and speedy recovery.


Thanks brother.


----------



## Renfro (May 30, 2019)

Here is a few more pics:

Kandy Kush:
 
Triple Nova
 
Wedding Cake
 
Durban Poison
 
Glue CMH Foxtailed
 
Glue HPS


----------



## Renfro (May 30, 2019)

So now they are trying to say my girl has cannabis hyperemesis syndrome. Time will tell if that is the correct diagnosis.


----------



## thenasty1 (May 30, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So now they are trying to say my girl has cannabis hyperemesis syndrome. Time will tell if that is the correct diagnosis.


chs is supposed to be pretty rare. is this the first opinion shes gotten?


----------



## Renfro (May 30, 2019)

thenasty1 said:


> chs is supposed to be pretty rare. is this the first opinion shes gotten?


Well she is on state healthcare so it's not like there is an abundance of opinions being offered lol. She had been to the er 3 times before they finally admitted her into the hospital. the dr at the hospital says he has seen at least 20 cases of CHS, and he was young. Thing is she had smoked before the first ER visit, but after that she was so sick she didn't want to smoke anything. So she has been like a week without weed and she is still sick. It's supposed to pass in 4 or 5 days from what I gather. Anyways time will tell if they are correct, she plans to stop smoking weed and eating edibles. So if she continues to get sick then it's not cannabis. If it is CHS then thats fine, she just doesn't wanna come home and be in pain and vomiting again. The ER was less than helpfull, they just assumed she was trying to get pain meds when all she wanted was to be able to eat and not get terribly sick and be in a lot of pain. she also says she feels like there is a mass pressing on her stomach when it hurts. She hasn't held down food in over 5 days and held down very little for a couple days before that. I feel so bad for her. they looked at her stomach and it's fine. Her gall bladder has stones but they said the test doesn't show any inflammation of the gall bladder.


----------



## thenasty1 (May 30, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well she is on state healthcare so it's not like there is an abundance of opinions being offered lol. She had been to the er 3 times before they finally admitted her into the hospital. the dr at the hospital says he has seen at least 20 cases of CHS, and he was young. Thing is she had smoked before the first ER visit, but after that she was so sick she didn't want to smoke anything. So she has been like a week without weed and she is still sick. It's supposed to pass in 4 or 5 days from what I gather. Anyways time will tell if they are correct, she plans to stop smoking weed and eating edibles. So if she continues to get sick then it's not cannabis. If it is CHS then thats fine, she just doesn't wanna come home and be in pain and vomiting again. The ER was less than helpfull, they just assumed she was trying to get pain meds when all she wanted was to be able to eat and not get terribly sick and be in a lot of pain. she also says she feels like there is a mass pressing on her stomach when it hurts. She hasn't held down food in over 5 days and held down very little for a couple days before that. I feel so bad for her. they looked at her stomach and it's fine. Her gall bladder has stones but they said the test doesn't show any inflammation of the gall bladder.


that sounds pretty awful, regardless of what turns out to be causing it. hope they get it figured out and she can come home soon.


----------



## ttystikk (May 30, 2019)

Best wishes from all of us. Hope you get to the bottom of what's ailing her soon- and that it's not serious.

One avenue of diagnosis by elimination might be to have her try a hot shower. Friends who have had CHS in the past reported to me that a hot shower made them feel better. It would not help someone with gallstones.

Do you ever use neem oil, Azamax or azatrol?


----------



## Renfro (May 30, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> have her try a hot shower


I saw that 90% of ppl with CHS feel inclined to soak in a hot bath. I had asked her when she was sick at home if she wanted to soak in the jet tub, but she didn't want to. I asked her again today after the doctor said that CHS is what he thinks she has and she said she didn't have that urge. So time will tell, if they got it right it will resolve itself as long as she abstains from cannabis. She has been dealing with this for a while and is miserable, has lost weight, and she just wants to be better. She has no problem quitting weed if thats what it takes.



ttystikk said:


> Do you ever use neem oil, Azamax or azatrol?


No.


----------



## McFrosticles (May 31, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So now they are trying to say my girl has cannabis hyperemesis syndrome. Time will tell if that is the correct diagnosis.


On the flip side, if that's what it is at least, it has been identified rather than being some unidentifiable/ambiguous condition. I had to google it and apparently it resolves itself within days/weeks, which you'll probably already know. Just need to smoke that 40lbs yourself now


----------



## Renfro (May 31, 2019)

McFrosticles said:


> Just need to smoke that 40lbs yourself now


----------



## ttystikk (May 31, 2019)

Renfro said:


>


That explains the smoke signals...


----------



## Renfro (Jun 2, 2019)

Day 75: One row of glue is down, 5 more to go. Also have the Lemon Skunk, Kandy Kush, Wedding Cake, Triple Nova, one Durban Poison and half a dosidos chopped. So 10 plants of glue, 2 durbans and half a dosidos left to go. lol My girl comes thru after I get the bigs and takes the larf down. It's a lof of nug, she sorts thru it and gets any good stuff out, usually gets 4 - 6 pounds plus a bunch of stuff to make edibles and concentrates from.

 

Got a shot of some lemon skunk in the trim bin... It yielded 395 grams, not bad considering I chopped the back half off the plant about 20 days into flower since it wouldn't get any light and was going to block the walkway / door. The plant didn't really get optimal lighting being off to the side and too tall. She was a BIG plant but the buds were small, very dense though. Typical sativa, very long internodes with small buds and massive dinner plate leaves. A dry pound looks like maybe 10 ounces because it's so dense. Definitely a strain that would do well in a SOG, just pack em in 4 per square foot, no veg from clone. She would probably be able to make 1.7 pounds in a 4x4 under 1000 watts. Not the best yielder but primo smoke. I will keep her around for shits and giggles. Maybe do a SoG run in the tent.


----------



## McFrosticles (Jun 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Day 75: One row of glue is down, 5 more to go. Also have the Lemon Skunk, Kandy Kush, Wedding Cake, Triple Nova, one Durban Poison and half a dosidos chopped. So 10 plants of glue, 2 durbans and half a dosidos left to go. lol My girl comes thru after I get the bigs and takes the larf down. It's a lof of nug, she sorts thru it and gets any good stuff out, usually gets 4 - 6 pounds plus a bunch of stuff to make edibles and concentrates from.
> 
> View attachment 4344156
> 
> ...


That lemon skunk looks glorious, amazing to see such high quality in what looks like an industrial set up. I take it you have a trimmer haha, giving my hands cramp thinking about that yield


----------



## diggs99 (Jun 2, 2019)

First off, I Hope your girl is feeling better. Health issues and sickness puts everything else in perspective. Best wishes bro.


Nice job on the garden, not many can do what your doing consistently. Always a pleasure following along


----------



## Renfro (Jun 2, 2019)

McFrosticles said:


> That lemon skunk looks glorious, amazing to see such high quality in what looks like an industrial set up. I take it you have a trimmer haha, giving my hands cramp thinking about that yield


Quality is my main goal, then yield is a close second. My girl does the trim. She is pretty fast, way faster than me. We have a T4 trimming machine but it doesn't please me. I think trimming machines are best left to outdoor growers with massive yields, but even then who wants to beat up their pretty nugs in a machine?



diggs99 said:


> First off, I Hope your girl is feeling better. Health issues and sickness puts everything else in perspective. Best wishes bro.


Thanks bro. She is doing much better now. I am glad to have her home. She went right to work. She was bored AF from being in the hospital and she is normally on the move getting stuff done.


----------



## McFrosticles (Jun 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Quality is my main goal, then yield is a close second. My girl does the trim. She is pretty fast, way faster than me. We have a T4 trimming machine but it doesn't please me. I think trimming machines are best left to outdoor growers with massive yields, but even then who wants to beat up their pretty nugs in a machine?
> 
> 
> Thanks bro. She is doing much better now. I am glad to have her home. She went right to work. She was bored AF from being in the hospital and she is normally on the move getting stuff done.


She must have arms like popeye  glad she's doing better


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 3, 2019)

Renfro said:


> She is doing much better now. I am glad to have her home.


Glad to hear it!


----------



## Renfro (Jun 5, 2019)

So I started chopping the CMH plant today and I noted a significant difference in density. I did a few comparisons of buds that looked the same size and there is about a 35% percent loss in mass on the CMH buds. They aren't hard like the HPS buds. The buds are also a lighter green color, and the stems are the same size but weaker. The resin content looks to be good, so as far as quality goes I expect it will be great smoke.


----------



## Renfro (Jun 7, 2019)

I have also noticed during this harvest that the CMH plant has a lot of hollow stems. Sorta like hydro plants. Wonder whats up there..


----------



## chuckie86 (Jun 8, 2019)

Nice grow bro


----------



## Renfro (Jun 8, 2019)

chuckie86 said:


> Nice grow bro


Thanks!


----------



## Renfro (Jun 8, 2019)

Tent update on day 52, things are looking good in there, density seems to be on point. Nugs are frosty. Still on the same res of nutes, just been topping off and adding nutes as needed. They show signs of underfeed from when they were young and I was dialing in their PPM. They seem to like it now around 1100 PPM. Definitely got the red stems that I was told come with LED and they wanted more calmag than under HPS. pH has been between 5.7 and 5.8.

 
GG4

 
Lemon Skunk

 
Purple Punch

 
Wedding Cake

That Purple Punch looks so ripe for her age but she has looked like that since she started flowering. Still clear trichomes on her. She smells like grape candy. She is a short one, very little stretch on her. The Glue and Cake are in the middle height wise.

The Lemon Skunk is the largest of the plants, remember these were no veg in a SoG as I didn't know how tall they would get in there and the lemon actually came close to maxing out the space.

Anyways, good day and happy growing!


----------



## Renfro (Jun 9, 2019)

I was telling my buddy that it would be cool to cross the Purple Punch and the Wedding Cake. He replies, I got it if you wanna run it, it's called Wedding Crasher. lol Dude has like everything.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 9, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I was telling my buddy that it would be cool to cross the Purple Punch and the Wedding Cake. He replies, I got it if you wanna run it, it's called Wedding Crasher. lol Dude has like everything.


Don't tempt me like that!


----------



## Stealthstyle (Jun 9, 2019)

Beachwalker is a retarded flat earther


----------



## Renfro (Jun 9, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Don't tempt me like that!


LoL. I would take him up on it but I don't wanna have to do the pheno hunt. lol


----------



## Purpsmagurps (Jun 9, 2019)

that lemon skunk looks good, I'm doing that x cheese right now


----------



## Renfro (Jun 9, 2019)

Purpsmagurps said:


> that lemon skunk looks good, I'm doing that x cheese right now


Yeah it came out very dense, and smell was lemon candy with just a tiny hint of skunk. She got really tall with long internodes. The cut I was given was called Las Vegas Lemon Skunk. She definitely has the energetic type high, great daytime smoke. You can get a lot of stuff done if you can remember what it was that you were doing.

What does yours smell like?


----------



## Purpsmagurps (Jun 9, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah it came out very dense, and smell was lemon candy with just a tiny hint of skunk. She got really tall with long internodes. The cut I was given was called Las Vegas Lemon Skunk. She definitely has the energetic type high, great daytime smoke. You can get a lot of stuff done if you can remember what it was that you were doing.
> 
> What does yours smell like?


i got mine from heavyweight and they smell very skunky with hints of lemon, I am about to flip to flower in a few days


----------



## Purpsmagurps (Jun 9, 2019)

about 2 months old


----------



## Renfro (Jun 9, 2019)

They look nice and healthy. Femmed gear I assume?


----------



## Purpsmagurps (Jun 9, 2019)

Renfro said:


> They look nice and healthy. Femmed gear I assume?


thanks! and yeah fem. I do have a spare veg area I am going to start doing some regs.


----------



## Renfro (Jun 9, 2019)

Well keep doing what you are doing bro, they are liking it.


----------



## Purpsmagurps (Jun 9, 2019)

I see we are doing the same thing  , I am using jacks 321 lol


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 9, 2019)

Purpsmagurps said:


> I see we are doing the same thing  , I am using jacks 321 lol


I started with Jacks, now I use a Colorado supplier that's cheaper;
www.hydro-gardens.com

They have a '420' mix formulated for the commercial facilities here that's 4-20-39, you use it 1:1 with calcium nitrate and add some epsom salt. Ratio is 2:2:1


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 9, 2019)

Purpsmagurps said:


> that lemon skunk looks good, I'm doing that x cheese right now


I used to have blueberry x cheese that was absolutely amazing. I miss that cut...


----------



## augusto1 (Jun 10, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> I started with Jacks, now I use a Colorado supplier that's cheaper;
> www.hydro-gardens.com
> 
> They have a '420' mix formulated for the commercial facilities here that's 4-20-39, you use it 1:1 with calcium nitrate and add some epsom salt. Ratio is 2:2:1


What does Ratio 2:2:1 means? I understand like for every 2: 4-20-39 and 2: calcium nitrate 1: epsom salts. Am I correct? Thank You In Avance.


----------



## ttystikk (Jun 10, 2019)

augusto1 said:


> What does Ratio 2:2:1 means? I understand like for every 2: 4-20-39 and 2: calcium nitrate 1: epsom salts. Am I correct? Thank You In Avance.


That's correct; by weight, not volume.

Always dissolve calcium nitrate separately and add it to the res. Then dissolve the other salts, adding them to the res once they're fully dissolved.

The package instructions on the mix will suggest making a stock solution and that's a good idea if you're going to use it up within a few weeks.


----------



## McFrosticles (Jun 11, 2019)

augusto1 said:


> What does Ratio 2:2:1 means? I understand like for every 2: 4-20-39 and 2: calcium nitrate 1: epsom salts. Am I correct? Thank You In Avance.



Ive used jacks for what looks like my first successful grow. At @ttystikk 's recommendation an ec of 1.6 throughout. the strain im im growing is supposed to be a heavy feeder, but if i up the feed I get PH and EC swings. 1.6 seems to be where the plant is sound. If I feed 1.6 my run off is always 1.6 and a PH a little high. If I feed 1.8 my runoff is 2.3+ and ph who knows


----------



## Renfro (Jun 12, 2019)

Good news! Went to the Dr today to renew my medical marijuana card. Doctor gave me a 74 count.  This is good because I wanted to expand my strain list. So now I can put 18 plants in one flowering room and 19 in the other and have 37 in veg.  Thats not including my girls count and her caregiver plants.


----------



## diggs99 (Jun 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Good news! Went to the Dr today to renew my medical marijuana card. Doctor gave me a 74 count.  This is good because I wanted to expand my strain list. So now I can put 18 plants in one flowering room and 19 in the other and have 37 in veg.  Thats not including my girls count and her caregiver plants.


That's awesome bro. 

New space for the increase? Or just less veg time?


----------



## Renfro (Jun 12, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> That's awesome bro.
> 
> New space for the increase? Or just less veg time?


Less veg time, more strains I suppose. I am gonna have to figure it out. lol. definitely going to be playing with more strains now. Got that MAC1 and Diving Gelato #3 coming, and that friend has a shit ton of other great stuff he wants to share with me.


----------



## Renfro (Jun 12, 2019)

I was talking to my buddy and he has an $800 pack of Candy Rain beans that he is gonna bust and we will run them in my tent to pick a bad ass mother plant.


----------



## Purpsmagurps (Jun 12, 2019)

those are some spendy beans


----------



## diggs99 (Jun 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I was talking to my buddy and he has an $800 pack of Candy Rain beans that he is gonna bust and we will run them in my tent to pick a bad ass mother plant.


Candy Rain @ $800 a pack, sounds like fire

Is that a Candy kush cross?


----------



## Renfro (Jun 12, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Candy Rain @ $800 a pack, sounds like fire
> 
> Is that a Candy kush cross?


I think it's Gelato 41 x London Pound Cake by the guy that made the cookies strains. My buddy has so many fire packs of beans and the goal is to bust one pack at a time in the and pick a winning mom from each strain.


----------



## diggs99 (Jun 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I think it's Gelato 41 x London Pound Cake by the guy that made the cookies strains. My buddy has so many fire packs of beans and the goal is to bust one pack at a time in the and pick a winning mom from each strain.


Sounds like a fun plan, your gonna have some crazy ass genetics to work with moving forward lol

Will be fun watching


----------



## Renfro (Jun 12, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Sounds like a fun plan, your gonna have some crazy ass genetics to work with moving forward lol
> 
> Will be fun watching


Yeah I am probably gonna end this thread and start a new on for this next round and also make a separate journal for the tent each run of beans.


----------



## Renfro (Jun 14, 2019)

Some day 58 pics of the tent nugs.

 
Gorilla Glue 4

 
Kandy Kush

   
Purple Punch

 
Wedding Cake

 
Lemon Skunk


----------



## JSheeze (Jun 14, 2019)

Whats a good 4x4 yield for you guys?


----------



## diggs99 (Jun 14, 2019)

Well renfro is pulling 3.5- 4lbs per plant, they wouldnt fit in 4x4s tho lol

Id say good growers are hitting 1.5 - 2 lbs in a dialed in 4x4 


I hit 14.5 ozs in my first ever grow, that was in a 4x4, that was without much effort and under only a 600w hps, no co2 etc


----------



## Renfro (Jun 14, 2019)

JSheeze said:


> Whats a good 4x4 yield for you guys?


2 pounds would be alright in a 4x4 space. Depends on the strain though. Some strains just won't yield while others can't be stopped.


----------



## JSheeze (Jun 14, 2019)

My max was close to 2 from a 4x4 but typically 1.5 give or take


----------



## diggs99 (Jun 14, 2019)

Well id consider that maxing out the space, nice job broham

. Im sure theres been others who have pulled more with some crazy ass cuttings from some king kong x godzilla type shit lol ....but i think normally, pulling 2lbs from a 4x4 is def on the upper side of yields in that space.


----------



## JSheeze (Jun 14, 2019)

Fair enough. Thanks guys


----------



## Grow for fun only (Jun 14, 2019)

JSheeze said:


> Whats a good 4x4 yield for you guys?


The weigh in for the candy kush autoflower grown in 4*4 tent with 250w MarsSP led
A wopping 204.7g , pretty stoked to pull this yield off one auto. 
Plus i used aboyt 25g of popcorn nugs to make extract. 
Just 4 weeks left to cure.. pls like it


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## Renfro (Jun 14, 2019)

A shot of a wet glue larf nug up close. I actually like smoking this larf, it's super potent, very light green, super smooth, fucks me up.

 

Drying room full of trays that are loaded with defanned glue.

 

This round was fucking stellar. Everytime I chopped a bud I would find 4 more hiding behind it. Had several trellis squares (6 inch ones) that I had to cut the trellis because 3 or 4 colas would be wedged thru that spot. We ran out of trays even though we were packing them really tight as always. We had to start freeing up trays by doubling up trays that were full of dry buds that hadn't been trimmed yet. It took about 2 weeks to chop and defan all the glue with just me doing it. I hesitate to guess the yields because I don't believe it myself, all I know is it's more than I have ever pulled. I have never had to start doubling up trays, usually I have some left for the larf. Normally a dry tray of untrimmed glue results in 8 ounces of timmed buds. I have 118 trays of dry glue with about 8 of them doubled up. So the math for an estimate would be around 64 pounds. It's fucking crazy amounts that blew me away. Honestly I won't believe it until it's all trimmed but I do wholeheartedly believe that it's at least 50 pounds. We haven't even chopped down the larf yet, we have to double up a bunch more trays, probably 6 to 8 pounds of larf. lol It's fucking insane. And the quality is on point, dense nuggets with great frost. Been smoking on some that came down at the beginning of the harvest and it's definitely the glue.


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## diggs99 (Jun 14, 2019)

Renfro said:


> A shot of a wet glue larf nug up close. I actually like smoking this larf, it's super potent, very light green, super smooth, fucks me up.
> 
> View attachment 4349724
> 
> ...


Wow that's ridiculous bro, congrats on a great crop.


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## Renfro (Jun 14, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Wow that's ridiculous bro, congrats on a great crop.


Yeah I am totally stoked. I don't even care if people don't believe it, hell I still don't believe it.


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## diggs99 (Jun 14, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah I am totally stoked. I don't even care if people don't believe it, hell I still don't believe it.


Lucky for you, it dont matter what others believe or dont believe lol

that shit dont pay the bills

fiddy elbows might help tho lol


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## augusto1 (Jun 14, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah I am totally stoked. I don't even care if people don't believe it, hell I still don't believe it.


Congrats, great crop, I believe you 1000 x 1000.


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## Thundercat (Jun 14, 2019)

Renfro said:


> A shot of a wet glue larf nug up close. I actually like smoking this larf, it's super potent, very light green, super smooth, fucks me up.
> 
> View attachment 4349724
> 
> ...


Outstanding dude!!!


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## Renfro (Jun 14, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> Lucky for you, it dont matter what others believe or dont believe lol
> 
> that shit dont pay the bills
> 
> fiddy elbows might help tho lol


Those extra days of veg really paid off eh?


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## PadawanWarrior (Jun 14, 2019)

That's really impressive man. I'll definitely be listening to your advice.


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## diggs99 (Jun 14, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Those extra days of veg really paid off eh?


No doubt, its funny, cause you knew that last crop was gonna be lacking a little because of the shorter veg, not this time, your rewarded with a monster

Impressive man, i could look at the drying room pic all day lol


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## Renfro (Jun 19, 2019)

I took a day 63 sample nug off the Purple Punch in the tent. She is one frosty plant. I can't wait to see what she can do in the flowering rooms. I have a couple that I will be running in this next round.


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## Renfro (Jun 21, 2019)

So I caught a "friend" stealing from me. He wanted to come over and trim a pound and get it fronted at a $100 discount for him trimming it. I caught him tryna take a 514 gram pound. Then he tried to lie and say it wasn't on purpose. Like come on man... He had stuffed as much weed in a 2 gallon bag as he could manage to fit in there. I saw it and figured I should check it because he had been acting a little sketchy and the bag looked like it was about to bust. I actually felt bad for checking it because he was supposed to be a friend. When I weighed it and it was 534.4, the bags weigh 19 - 20. SMH, try to help a fella out and this shit. So needless to say I confronted him about it and he said it wasn't on purpose. I told him to pack his shit and leave and I even paid him $100 for trimming the "pound" because I am fair and I told him never to contact me again.


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## Thundercat (Jun 21, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So I caught a "friend" stealing from me. He wanted to come over and trim a pound and get it fronted at a $100 discount for him trimming it. I caught him tryna take a 514 gram pound. Then he tried to lie and say it wasn't on purpose. Like come on man... He had stuffed as much weed in a 2 gallon bag as he could manage to fit in there. I saw it and figured I should check it because he had been acting a little sketchy and the bag looked like it was about to bust. I actually felt bad for checking it because he was supposed to be a friend. When I weighed it and it was 534.4, the bags weigh 19 - 20. SMH, try to help a fella out and this shit. So needless to say I confronted him about it and he said it wasn't on purpose. I told him to pack his shit and leave and I even paid him $100 for trimming the "pound" because I am fair and I told him never to contact me again.


Damn that sucks dude I'm sorry to hear.


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## TintEastwood (Jun 21, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> Damn that sucks dude I'm sorry to hear.


Ditto.
He burned the bridge.


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## Renfro (Jun 21, 2019)

Yeah fucked up thing is he had told me thanks several times for helping bring him up outta the gutter. He moved to Colorado and found the cost of living here is much higher than Alabama and he was unable to hack it out here. He had bought a truck and a lot of other things with money he had earned working for me trimming weed. He managed to support his family and he was no longer all depressed and angry at the whole world. Now he does this kinda crap. I thought something was up because my girl had a bag of weed she was trimming for an order and when she came back to her spot the bag had been messed with and a big divot of weed, probably 2 or 3 ounces was missing. I figured he had taken some of her trim work to save him time on that pound, he did pay for that "pound" but he probably stole some then too. That was the day before I actually caught him stealing. So I didn't say anything and figured if he would do that to her that I would catch him actually stealing. Well he got caught and I was so pissed I am very glad he left and didn't argue as I was doing everything I could to stay peaceful. Fucker has been stealing for no telling how long.


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## ozziebud (Jun 21, 2019)

dude it sucks helped many people out over the years had it happen to me a whole room the night before trim ya dont need fuckers like this around best thing cut him off tell ya mates about him everyone cuts him off all over what 500 bucks or so choosing that over freindship loyalty disgarcefull


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## mr. childs (Jun 21, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah fucked up thing is he had told me thanks several times for helping bring him up outta the gutter. He moved to Colorado and found the cost of living here is much higher than Alabama and he was unable to hack it out here. He had bought a truck and a lot of other things with money he had earned working for me trimming weed. He managed to support his family and he was no longer all depressed and angry at the whole world. Now he does this kinda crap. I thought something was up because my girl had a bag of weed she was trimming for an order and when she came back to her spot the bag had been messed with and a big divot of weed, probably 2 or 3 ounces was missing. I figured he had taken some of her trim work to save him time on that pound, he did pay for that "pound" but he probably stole some then too. That was the day before I actually caught him stealing. So I didn't say anything and figured if he would do that to her that I would catch him actually stealing. Well he got caught and I was so pissed I am very glad he left and didn't argue as I was doing everything I could to stay peaceful. Fucker has been stealing for no telling how long.


like the first episode of ozark & the story of the lady stealing from the register, and the decision on whether or not to fire her. it wasn't the first time stealing for her, it was the first time she was caught.


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## diggs99 (Jun 21, 2019)

Thats rough bro

Anyone stealing is fuckery, a so called friend doing it, just makes it that much more fkd up


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## cindysid (Jun 21, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah fucked up thing is he had told me thanks several times for helping bring him up outta the gutter. He moved to Colorado and found the cost of living here is much higher than Alabama and he was unable to hack it out here. He had bought a truck and a lot of other things with money he had earned working for me trimming weed. He managed to support his family and he was no longer all depressed and angry at the whole world. Now he does this kinda crap. I thought something was up because my girl had a bag of weed she was trimming for an order and when she came back to her spot the bag had been messed with and a big divot of weed, probably 2 or 3 ounces was missing. I figured he had taken some of her trim work to save him time on that pound, he did pay for that "pound" but he probably stole some then too. That was the day before I actually caught him stealing. So I didn't say anything and figured if he would do that to her that I would catch him actually stealing. Well he got caught and I was so pissed I am very glad he left and didn't argue as I was doing everything I could to stay peaceful. Fucker has been stealing for no telling how long.


I have had this sort of thing happen to me several times before. I finally came to the conclusion that I have to keep my operation at a size I can manage myself. I do everything from seed to finished product. I'm not able to run a huge set up, but I know that no one is stealing from me. It's a shame that there are few people who can be trusted, and it seems the more generous you are, the more you get taken advantage of. Glad you caught him before he did a lot more damage. It hurts when you learn you can't trust friend or family.


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## Renfro (Jun 22, 2019)

Just smoked some of that purple punch test nug. Wow that shit is strong, smooth but hits like a sledgehammer. A little bit of a grapey / blueberry smell with some of that rubber smell from the tire store.


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## thumper60 (Jun 22, 2019)

cindysid said:


> I have had this sort of thing happen to me several times before. I finally came to the conclusion that I have to keep my operation at a size I can manage myself. I do everything from seed to finished product. I'm not able to run a huge set up, but I know that no one is stealing from me. It's a shame that there are few people who can be trusted, and it seems the more generous you are, the more you get taken advantage of. Glad you caught him before he did a lot more damage. It hurts when you learn you can't trust friend or family.


what really sucks is the damage may be just startingnever bring any one into ya grow.i have lost dozens of so called friends.


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## mr. childs (Jun 22, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Just smoked some of that purple punch test nug. Wow that shit is strong, smooth but hits like a sledgehammer. A little bit of a grapey / blueberry smell with some of that rubber smell from the tire store.


first ive heard of it being strong. people always mention the taste first, and say it lacks in the potency dept.


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## Renfro (Jun 22, 2019)

mr. childs said:


> first ive heard of it being strong. people always mention the taste first, amd say it lacks in the potency dept.


Maybe this cut is a little different? Or maybe I am just easy to get high today. I didn't smoke yesterday, had a bad cough so I took a day off. I will see how it does when I smoke again later, and I will ask my girl when she trys some.


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## mr. childs (Jun 22, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Maybe this cut is a little different? Or maybe I am just easy to get high today. I didn't smoke yesterday, had a bad cough so I took a day off. I will see how it does when I smoke again later, and I will ask my girl when she trys some.


maybe most people just don't like the creator & the growers that make it popular. glad you got great results with it.


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## Renfro (Jun 22, 2019)

mr. childs said:


> maybe most people just don't like the creator & the growers that make it popular. glad you got great results with it.


One thing I noticed about it is that it doesn't stretch much after you flip it. It would be great for small spaces. The flavor is impressive. This was also only a sample nug taken at day 60, the rest is still flowering at day 65.


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## RealGeezalio93 (Jun 22, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Gotta spend money to make money.


whats are you spending a month on the electric bill???

this is a goal !


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## Renfro (Jun 22, 2019)

RealGeezalio93 said:


> whats are you spending a month on the electric bill???


U don't wanna know lol.


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## blasting (Jun 23, 2019)

Have fun with your beastly harvest.


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## Akizzil (Jun 23, 2019)

I hate being betrayed by so called friends or even loved ones. People need to learning how to ask for help. I’ve cut off soo many people and had to move. Now things are peaceful. Just sad how some people can be. All you can do is move on n keep on grinding


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## Renfro (Jun 23, 2019)

Akizzil said:


> I hate being betrayed by so called friends or even loved ones. People need to learning how to ask for help. I’ve cut off soo many people and had to move. Now things are peaceful. Just sad how some people can be. All you can do is move on n keep on grinding


Man I have loaned this guy money, he paid it back, took longer than he planned but he paid the loan back. He had a friend he could count on and he threw it all away. Yeah I'll keep on trucking, probably find harvests are a little bigger now without the thievery.


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## ozziebud (Jun 24, 2019)

another question for ya renfro how close are you running your 1000wde ive added a third light to middle plant think its starting to bleach the leaves mainly on middle plant bottom leaves nice green tops starting toget lighter in color i think maybe the middle plant is getting to much overlapping light from side lights plus one above there at 4.2 feet above canopy at moment cant go higher set at 1000


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## Renfro (Jun 24, 2019)

ozziebud said:


> another question for ya renfro how close are you running your 1000wde ive added a third light to middle plant think its starting to bleach the leaves mainly on middle plant bottom leaves nice green tops starting toget lighter in color i think maybe the middle plant is getting to much overlapping light from side lights plus one above there at 4.2 feet above canopy at moment cant go higher set at 1000View attachment 4354669


Well I don't have any issues with bleaching at 30 inches directly under the light and 20 inches off towards the perimeters. I have never had bleaching in the center between my lights even if the plants get up really really tall, I think because the light is hitting from different angles? Could it be that your feed strength is low and the plants want a little more, or pH is off and they can't get the food thats provided? Your setup shouldn't be light bleaching, not even remotely close to bleaching at those distances. Of course you understand that with the HPS lighting I am unable to see the bleaching but I can see that your lights are more than far enough from the canopy to prevent bleaching.

With my DE's I don't raise and lower them, I just hang them as high as I can and let the plants grow to them.

Anyways, I hope this was helpful.


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## Renfro (Jun 24, 2019)

So I had a chance to go and meet up with a member from this site yesterday. I will leave their username out and if they want to say who they are then thats great! We had dinner at Freddy's in the Springs, I went with my girl and my buddy that has the fire hoard of beans and breeders cuts. We hung out for about an hour maybe and shot the shit over some really good burgers. A good time was had by all!

This unnamed member and I had already met once before at a little party in Fort Collins with several RIU members back about 5 years ago ish.

Would be cool to have a Colorado gathering of trusted RIU members. Invite only type thing of course, for security reasons, don't have to be from Colorado to get an invite. Everyone could trade genetics, stories, smoke out... We really should try and figure this out. Probably a pipe dream as everyone is busy and has lives but shit, it could be a real blast provided we can find a good place to meet and get a good group of members there. I know it was fun when we did it like 5 years ago... Perhaps there is already a thread on the matter that I am missing?


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## Anon25314 (Jun 24, 2019)

fucking insane setup dude


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## Renfro (Jun 24, 2019)

Anon25314 said:


> fucking insane setup dude


Thanks! Over 6 years of work into building it. It all started with 4 lights in what is currently my veg room. I planned it all out to the last detail. Built all the walls and ran all the electrical to start so I would be able to keep growing while upgrading. First year or so the first flowering room (room A) ran with no AC or CO2, just lots of fresh filtered air, air cooled lights, running at night. Then I upgraded room A to AC and CO2. Next was to setup room B with equipment and fire it up on the flip. Now I look back at all the work sometimes when I am down there and remember the journey lol. All the busted knuckles and trips to the hardware store. It never would have gotten done had I not gotten the divorce lol.


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## ttystikk (Jun 26, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Thanks! Over 6 years of work into building it. It all started with 4 lights in what is currently my veg room. I planned it all out to the last detail. Built all the walls and ran all the electrical to start so I would be able to keep growing while upgrading. First year or so the first flowering room (room A) ran with no AC or CO2, just lots of fresh filtered air, air cooled lights, running at night. Then I upgraded room A to AC and CO2. Next was to setup room B with equipment and fire it up on the flip. Now I look back at all the work sometimes when I am down there and remember the journey lol. All the busted knuckles and trips to the hardware store. It never would have gotten done had I not gotten the divorce lol.


Finding the right girl is key, man.


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## Renfro (Jun 26, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Finding the right girl is key, man.


lol my ex wife was a fucking money pit. Fortunately she is someone elses problem now.


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## Poppingoff (Jun 26, 2019)

Hi Renfro, sorry if you already answered this, I only had time to read the first 11 pages or so, but how long do you veg those monstercropped plants before you flip? I vegged my plants for 6 weeks under 315 cmh in 7 gallons and they arent even close to the size yours are.

I have a 4x8 tent with 4x 315cmh and I'm about to set up a room with two 4x8 tables. And use the 4x8 tent for veg. Is it better to veg them under MH or HPS? Or should I keep on with CMH.

I am soooooooooooooooo impressed by what you have going on. Teach me your ways!


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## blasting (Jun 26, 2019)

Renfro said:


> lol my ex wife was a fucking money pit. Fortunately she is someone elses problem now.


Wish there was an agree button on this site...


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## Renfro (Jun 26, 2019)

Poppingoff said:


> Hi Renfro, sorry if you already answered this, I only had time to read the first 11 pages or so, but how long do you veg those monstercropped plants before you flip?


It varies, I have found that vegging for about 40 days in the veg room and a couple weeks in the flower rooms works really well, definitely pulled 50+ on the 12 glue plants this round.



Poppingoff said:


> I'm about to set up a room with two 4x8 tables.


Thats more suited to a SoG style grow and not growing massive plants.



Poppingoff said:


> Is it better to veg them under MH or HPS? Or should I keep on with CMH.


Totally your call. HPS will make taller plants, MH will make shorter ones, CMH is in between. I have done all of the above. Right now I have a couple nanolux 1kW DE CMH lights in veg that I am very pleased with.


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## Poppingoff (Jun 26, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Thats more suited to a SoG style grow and not growing massive plants.


Thanks so much brotha. I don't want to abuse your time so feel free to ignore but, I was going to do 18 in 3 gals under 4x315 cmh any recommendations or changes you think I should make? I have not bought my lights yet. 50P's is outstanding, where did you get the seeds?


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## Renfro (Jun 26, 2019)

Poppingoff said:


> where did you get the seeds?


The real Gorilla Glue 4 is a cut only.



Poppingoff said:


> I was going to do 18 in 3 gals under 4x315 cmh any recommendations or changes you think I should make?


Well the only way I have really ever run tables is a no veg SoG. I used 1kW HPS lights over 4x4 area (2 per 4x8 table). I ran 48 plants per 4x4 area, 7 x 7 grid minus one for the tray fittings. Using 6" square pots with hydroton. I would pot really well rooted clones (20 day root) and flower them. Lollipop at day 20. Ended up with 48 colas per light, plants averaged 20 - 21 grams dry.


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## Renfro (Jun 26, 2019)

You want a strain that really stretches after flip to do that no veg SoG. Otherwise you end up with short little plants that don't yield. My Shiva strain I ran would end up 40 - 44 inches tall, clones were cut 6 inches long and were probably 8 inches when they were potted after 20 day root.


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## Poppingoff (Jun 26, 2019)

Renfro said:


> You want a strain that really stretches after flip to do that no veg SoG. Otherwise you end up with short little plants that don't yield. My Shiva strain I ran would end up 40 - 44 inches tall, clones were cut 6 inches long and were probably 8 inches when they were potted after 20 day root.


That sounds like a perfect strain, what a stretch! Is that cut only too? Thanks man I will start researching and working on it. I appreciate the advice.


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## Renfro (Jun 26, 2019)

I got that Shiva as a pack of beans from Nirvana back in like 2003. It was a beast, 8 of 10 were female, of those two made massive colas. Truly ripe in 60 days. Those two were used as mother stock, eventually narrowed to one that rooted a little faster and I grew her for 7 years. It was a pure land race indica from the India Pakistan border. It hardly grew during veg, probably due to their dry climate, but when she started flowering she would shoot up. Very hashy taste, mega potent. In 7 years nobody ever built up a tolerance for that strain. The best strain I ever had and I would pay a lot to get it back.


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## JohnDee (Jun 26, 2019)

Hey Renfro,
That's almost the same as how I did it...only 3'x3' trays...with 400 hps. I was on a White Widow kick when I was doing that. Clean and easy way to grow.

Wanted to ask you...what clone medium do you use. Rockwool would be the obvious first choice. I love the stuff.

Hey I was watching some back episodes of Dark Angel...I'm a major Jessica Alba fan. The chief of police chasing down the altered children was named RENFRO. That wan't you I hope. lol
JD


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## Renfro (Jun 27, 2019)

JohnDee said:


> Wanted to ask you...what clone medium do you use. Rockwool would be the obvious first choice. I love the stuff.


I don't like rockwool. Had a lot of bad luck with that stuff and PM loves it. I use rapid rooters and I get 99.9 - 100% success. I have been using the rapid rooters for about 17 years.


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## Renfro (Jun 27, 2019)

Poppingoff said:


> Is that cut only too?


I got that from a pack of seeds from Nirvana back in '03. Can't find it anymore just crosses.


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## gr865 (Jun 29, 2019)

JSheeze said:


> Whats a good 4x4 yield for you guys?


I pull 24 to 26 zips of trimmed smokable buds in my 4 x 4, both vertically and horizontally with two 315W CMH.


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## JohnDee (Jun 29, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I don't like rockwool. Had a lot of bad luck with that stuff and PM loves it. I use rapid rooters and I get 99.9 - 100% success. I have been using the rapid rooters for about 17 years.


Well I'm sort of stuck with it. Last summer I got a little crazy with a Grow Shop forclosure auction...and now I have 4 cases (minus what I've used) sitting in my shed. I've always had good luck using it for clones...and just recently I vegged a White Widow in a 3"x3" block. Just top watered avery couple days and it did great. I cover the top to avoud algae...but PM, not so far.

Never tried the Rapid Rooters though.
Cheers,
JD


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## Renfro (Jun 30, 2019)

So I just harvested the tent today. The nugs are very impressive, dense, heavy, frosty. I am very pleased with the LED light setup. The hydro setup did it's job well, minimal work on my part, good production. Same nutes for the whole run, only RO top offs and little nute adds to keep the PPM, small pH adjusts. Ran the reservoir at 35 gallons for the first 30 days then added 5 more gallons with more bloom in the mix. I am very happy with the first run in the tent. I will try and post some pics later.

My buddy and I plan to sprout some candy rain beans and do a little pheno hunt to get a good mommy.

Hey @JohnDee looks like I may need your advice. My buddy dropped off a bunch of cuts that are in the rooting process, they are in rockwool cubes. lol


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## RealGeezalio93 (Jul 5, 2019)

Hey @Renfro did you acomplish the 40+ pound goal?


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## Renfro (Jul 5, 2019)

RealGeezalio93 said:


> Hey @Renfro did you acomplish the 40+ pound goal?


More like 54 this round on the 12 plants.


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## RealGeezalio93 (Jul 5, 2019)

Renfro said:


> More like 54 this round on the 12 plants.



Wow thats fucking awesome! glad to witness your journey with them . 

glad your girls doung good too.


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## Renfro (Jul 5, 2019)

RealGeezalio93 said:


> Wow thats fucking awesome! glad to witness your journey with them .
> 
> glad your girls doung good too.


Glad to have you along for the ride! Her stomach is still messed up.


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## diggs99 (Jul 5, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Glad to have you along for the ride! Her stomach is still messed up.


That sucks man, i cant imagine watching my mrs not feeling well, stay strong bro, hopefully it will pass soon and she will begin to feel like herself again.


Happier note: 54 elbows holla!!!!


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## Renfro (Jul 16, 2019)

So I put plants in for the next round and had a few buckets that cracked where the grommet goes in. I was either stuck with leaky drain line system or find a fix. I grabbed a spray can of flex seal and it fixed the leaks! lol good shit!


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## Thundercat (Jul 16, 2019)

Renfro said:


> More like 54 this round on the 12 plants.


damn dude I missed this post, thats nuts, nice work!


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## Renfro (Jul 16, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> damn dude I missed this post, thats nuts, nice work!


Yeah, add in the extra plants that weren't in the trellis rigs and I was just a hair shy of 60.


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## Renfro (Jul 16, 2019)

So this would be run 3 of this thread. For this run the plant count is now at 74 so I can blow it up. lol So totally disregard the thread title.

Room A (day 9 of 12/12)
  

Room B (night before day 12 of 12/12)
 

When I learned of my increased plant count I decided to take all my mother plants and extra plants and put them in room A. So row 1 has a glue, kandy kush and a lemon skunk. Row 2 has 3 purple punches (two really tall ones between the lights lol) and a do-si-dos. Row 3 has two wedding cakes and a durban poison. There are two triple novas at the end of the walkways and my girl has a wedding cake in there on wheels.

In room B I put all 12 of the glues that I had going for next run, 4 per row. There is a durban poison and a triple nova and a divine gelato #3 at the ends of the walkways and my girl has a durban poison in there on wheels.

So there are 29 plants in flower, I could run up to half my count in flower so 37 plants is my cap before adding my girls plants. 

Anyways folks, enjoy the ride lol. What say for all plants we set a goal of 60 total and see what we can do with the mixed strains on a hot summer run. Summer runs are always a little lighter for me so hitting 60 total would be stellar IMO.


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## Thundercat (Jul 16, 2019)

Holy shit some of those plants are already to the ceiling! This is gonna be a beast run.


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## Renfro (Jul 16, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> Holy shit some of those plants are already to the ceiling! This is gonna be a beast run.


Yeah I may have some height issues lol. I have the lights dimmed too. Trying to slow that stretch a little.


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## Renfro (Jul 16, 2019)

I should also note that I treated the purple punches with optic foliar switch / transport on day 7 and will do so again on day 17 as she tends to make two or three seeds per plant. Mixed up 500mL and it was more than enough for those plants so I went ahead and hit a few others. I have found in the past that this stuff helps if you have a plant that likes to make bananas.


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## Renfro (Jul 24, 2019)

So here we go folks, down the LED rabbit hole! I am going to build my own LED lights for the daytime room (B). Looked at the Timbers and looked at DIY. The DIY won.

Each light built to replace a DE HPS at 1150 watts will consist of:

12 x Luminous CXM-22 Gen 4 3500k 90 CRI
3 x Meanwell HLG-240H-54B

Lights will be dimmable.

DC Watts = 720
AC Watts = 760

So the individual cobs will be driven at 60 watts each so they will run more efficient producing more light and I will get more even coverage than say 9 cobs at 80 watts each.

Here is a chart comparing some different cobs to the CXM-22 Gen 4.

​This is the reason that we chose this chip. Thanks to @CobKits for help designing the light setup and for a great deal on the parts for 6 of these lights.


----------



## diggs99 (Jul 24, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So here we go folks, down the LED rabbit hole! I am going to build my own LED lights for the daytime room (B). Looked at the Timbers and looked at DIY. The DIY won.
> 
> Each light built to replace a DE HPS at 1150 watts will consist of:
> 
> ...



74 count , plants hitting ceilings , led builds, this next run is gonna have it all lol

How are you gonna grow? i assume some changes will need to be made somewhere, either space or style?

your gonna need a bigger boat if you wanna grow 74 trees like you have been up until now lol

So you planning to sog or expand? lol


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## Renfro (Jul 24, 2019)

Definitely not going sog, that would require way to many plants. I will keep doing the rows but run 3 or 4 plants per row instead of 2. That will reduce veg times and watering frequency in the 10 gallon buckets. Right now I have 4 glues per row in room B. I am having to water less often and thats great lol.

I do hope that the LED lights perform as well as the one did in my tent, it's a gen 4 cob and my tent is gen 3. I think that driving 720 watts I should do pretty well I just have to get the cob spacing right. I will buy an Apogee light meter and use that to help design the rig to tune cob spacing. Should be a good time. I will make a thread for the light build when I get underway. Right now I am gathering parts. Don't have much space around here but I will setup a folding table in the family room, that will make my girl happy. lol

Considering the aluminum T Channel for the framework, it's a little pricey but I could make the row spacing adjustable if I want. Maybe on the first rig and once I get the spacing tuned I will build the others cheaper with aluminum angle. We will see, depends on the price difference. I have a pop rivet tool handy so putting together a frame out of angle would be easy peasy.


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## Renfro (Aug 6, 2019)

Updated strain list, I know I am missing a few but this off the top of my skull:

Animal Face (Best of 4 packs)
Blue Cookies (Clone Only Breeder Cut)
Candy Rain (shotgunning now)
Divine Gelato #3 (Breeders Cut)
Do Si Dos (Dark Heart Nursery)
Freezer Burn Lemon Fire (Caps Cut)
Gelato 33 (Larry Bird)
Gelato 45 (cookie fam breeders cut)
GG4 (Breeders Cut) Tested at 31%
GMO (Skunk Master Flex) Namiko Seed Co
Ice Cream Cake
Kandy Kush (Cut from Kind Love - OG Dominant Pheno)
Kush Mints (Rabid Hippy Cut)
Las Vegas Triangle Kush (Cannaventure)
MAC 1 (Caps cut)
Mimosa (Breeder Cut) Symbiotic genetics
OCD x M13 (Caps cut)
Purple Punch
Punch Breath (Best of 156 beans)
Triple Nova (Cannaventure Breeder Cut Blackberry Pheno)
Wedding Cake (Jbeezy cut)

Most of those I got from my homey @Gno702 and he has a lot more coming.


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## Thundercat (Aug 6, 2019)

Man that's one hell of a list!


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## Renfro (Aug 6, 2019)

Thundercat said:


> Man that's one hell of a list!


Yes it is and my buddy is telling me this is just scratching the surface, more coming. And then he has his bean collection, I have a pack of his candy rain beans in the tent doing a little pheno hunt. When I get my commercial building in Colorado put up he and I are gonna shotgun hundreds of packs of rare dankness. He is gonna bring his bean collection over and I am going to catalog it into the computer, he has so many premium packs it's retarded. He just snagged a couple packs each of some new stuff that Capulator just dropped 33 packs of worldwide, McNasty and McStomper.

I know Motor Breath 15 & White Cookies are on the way any minute. His friend has been collecting and keeping true old school strains for a long ass time and we have access to anything we want from him as well, here is the list he sent:
 
Shits about to get really interesting around here with my new plant count and my girls plant count we can do 98 lol.


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## Renfro (Aug 6, 2019)

Took a panoramic shot of the veg room for shits and giggles, it came out pretty good. Got some mothers, clones for the next run, some for a buddy and some are new strains.


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## oilfield bud (Sep 3, 2019)

Man I'm hkad I found your thread


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## Nizza (Sep 12, 2019)

hey renfro, things looking great as always.
I do soil grows, but I was wondering If you've ever used those plastic preforated air-pots (not the fabric kind)





or if you've tried soilless with the fabric pots as well.

Just curious why they aren't good for soilless~cause it already is airated enough? One thing Is I have to water a lot more with these, and It took me a while to realize when i fill it , I need to moisten the soil and pack it outwards to fill the cones so the root ball gets more surface area

I just was wondering maybe if you have never used one of these it could be fun to try. I love them because they are easy to clean, easy to transplant from, and cool looking (lol)
I do however wish the outsides of these were white**(edit), almost like panda film. Perhaps a side-by-side could debunk if these are worth it or not. They're pretty expensive


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## Renfro (Sep 12, 2019)

Nizza said:


> hey renfro, things looking great as always.
> I do soil grows, but I was wondering If you've ever used those plastic preforated air-pots (not the fabric kind)
> 
> 
> ...


I use Carlisle 10 gallon Bronco Buckets. They work good for my setup with the drain lines to the floor drain.


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## diggs99 (Sep 12, 2019)

Sup bro? where you been? no updates here or the other spot?

hows the rooms doing? Still building lights?

hope all is well


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## Renfro (Sep 12, 2019)

All is good. Just been busy. Bought a new toy, 1975 Stingray with a supercharged small block and the works. So I been spending more time on that lol.


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## diggs99 (Sep 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> All is good. Just been busy. Bought a new toy, 1975 Stingray with a supercharged small block and the works. So I been spending more time on that lol.


oh nice, shes a ripper

Glad to see you around. I went looking for both your journals a couple days ago and seen no updates, i was like wtf lol

you get all your lights built? make the switch yet?


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## Renfro (Sep 12, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> you get all your lights built? make the switch yet?


no and no lol. Since the weather will be cooling down for the next run I will just run them on one row to start. Then if all goes well I will add the other 4 on the run after that.


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## diggs99 (Sep 12, 2019)

Renfro said:


> no and no lol. Since the weather will be cooling down for the next run I will just run them on one row to start. Then if all goes well I will add the other 4 on the run after that.


Ya thats prob a good idea.

I think i might keep my cmh in the room for winter growing, just to help with temps. Was gonna build and run the last 480w fixture but might hold off until it starts warming up again.


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## WillieP (Sep 13, 2019)

Renfro,
Just made it to the end of this...Wow, what a ride.
Those are some impressive monsters you're growing there!
I wanted to stop and say thanks for taking the time to share your journey with us. As a total newb, the ability to pull 50+ lbs off of 12 plant, just blows my mind.
I hope that you continue to move forward with your expansion, of both your strains and your plant count.
Cheers,
WillieP


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## Renfro (Sep 14, 2019)

WillieP said:


> Renfro,
> Just made it to the end of this...Wow, what a ride.
> Those are some impressive monsters you're growing there!
> I wanted to stop and say thanks for taking the time to share your journey with us. As a total newb, the ability to pull 50+ lbs off of 12 plant, just blows my mind.
> ...


Thanks! I am indeed expanding. In more ways than one. New building is in the works for a commercial recreational grow here in colorado, also partnered in an oklahoma mecical grow. My personal grow is more of a proving ground now, a place where I can test methods, equipment and genetics.


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## kroc (Sep 20, 2019)

Well this journals a huge inspiration, amazing work Renfro.


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## Keesje (Sep 21, 2019)

Renfro said:


> A shot of a wet glue larf nug up close. I actually like smoking this larf, it's super potent, very light green, super smooth, fucks me up.
> 
> View attachment 4349724
> 
> ...


Is this about the Gorilla Glue 4 that had such a huge yield?


----------



## augusto1 (Sep 21, 2019)

Keesje said:


> Is this about the Gorilla Glue 4 that had such a huge yield?


No this is about Renfro that knows how to make any plant to have a huge yield.


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## TreeFiddy350 (Sep 29, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Thanks! I am indeed expanding. In more ways than one. New building is in the works for a commercial recreational grow here in colorado, also partnered in an oklahoma mecical grow. My personal grow is more of a proving ground now, a place where I can test methods, equipment and genetics.


Bruhhh you partnered with somebody here in Oklahoma? Damn... beat me to the punch  lol


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## Renfro (Sep 29, 2019)

TreeFiddy350 said:


> Bruhhh you partnered with somebody here in Oklahoma? Damn... beat me to the punch  lol


Working on Missouri now. Oklahoma allows 25% ownership from out of state (silent partner). Missouri it looks like 49.9% is the max out of state ownership.


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## TreeFiddy350 (Sep 30, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Working on Missouri now. Oklahoma allows 25% ownership from out of state (silent partner). Missouri it looks like 49.9% is the max out of state ownership.


I’m just teasing. That’s good shit tho! Where did you get your gg4 seeds at? I was thinking about running a 10x10 of Humboldt seed blue dream and another tent of high quality high yield strain


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## Renfro (Sep 30, 2019)

TreeFiddy350 said:


> Where did you get your gg4 seeds at?


I got the breeder cut, I rarely grow from seed.


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## TreeFiddy350 (Oct 2, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I got the breeder cut, I rarely grow from seed.


Send it to papi wink wink hahaha


----------



## myke (Oct 7, 2019)

You mentioned somewhere in another thread that you liked MH bulbs compared to HPS for flowering.wasbthis right or did I read it wrong. Thx


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## Renfro (Oct 10, 2019)

I have used MH finishing bulbs for the last 10 - 14 days to add some resin production. I have in the past compared HPS and MH side by side and the HPS definitely yielded better due to the far red but the MH had better resin production due to the added UV.

Using the MH as a finishing bulb gets the yield of the HPS with the resin production more akin to the MH.


----------



## pandapots (Oct 11, 2019)

Great thread you have here! I came over cause i saw on your post from another thread about owning the nanolux 1000w cmh. How do you like them, and are they reliable? 

I was in the market for new lights for a 8x9x8 space. I was thinking about doing a mix 2 hps 1000w, and 2 cmh 1000w. Thoughts, recommendations? Anything would help.


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## Renfro (Oct 11, 2019)

pandapots said:


> How do you like them, and are they reliable?


Well the first batch of bulbs they sent me were a defective batch and after 6 or 7 months the bulbs arc tubes would crack plus they lost about 19% output in just 7 months. They replaced the defective bulbs and I have been running them for a month or so. I am only using them in veg.


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## pandapots (Oct 11, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well the first batch of bulbs they sent me were a defective batch and after 6 or 7 months the bulbs arc tubes would crack plus they lost about 19% output in just 7 months. They replaced the defective bulbs and I have been running them for a month or so. I am only using them in veg.


yo thanks for the reply. Are you vegging at 1000w on another fixture? Im asking cause the people who work at hydro stores tend to say that nanolux's products get returned often, and i dont wan't to dish the premium price to find out the ballast is gunna give out.


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## Renfro (Oct 11, 2019)

pandapots said:


> yo thanks for the reply. Are you vegging at 1000w on another fixture? Im asking cause the people who work at hydro stores tend to say that nanolux's products get returned often, and i dont wan't to dish the premium price to find out the ballast is gunna give out.


He is right. I had purchased 12 nanolux 1kW DE HPS lights for my flowering rooms. I was all stoked. Liked that I could mount the ballasts remotely. Well they started failing one by one. I was doing warranty replacements a bunch of times. Got tired of having to dick with dead ballasts so I started replacing them with Phantom or Sunsystem ballasts and they have been great. So now I have I think maybe 3 nanolux ballasts that are still hanging in there lol and I have a Phantom on the shelf NIB waiting for it's turn.

Honestly I would avoid Nanolux.

You can run some DE CMH bulbs on HPS ballasts believe it or not. @GoBrah makes some bulbs that you may like. Others have run 630 watt CMH bulbs on 600 watt HPS ballasts and such. You might search for some threads.

SunPlix makes a good light from what I hear but I haven't tried one.


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## Renfro (Oct 11, 2019)

Check this out: http://www.cultilux.com/1000w-de-cmh.html

Look at that 4k spectrum, that would flower very well IMO. Run them in your DE HPS ballasts. Then you can change bulbs and be CMH or HPS at will.


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## GoBrah (Oct 11, 2019)

pandapots said:


> Great thread you have here! I came over cause i saw on your post from another thread about owning the nanolux 1000w cmh. How do you like them, and are they reliable?
> 
> I was in the market for new lights for a 8x9x8 space. I was thinking about doing a mix 2 hps 1000w, and 2 cmh 1000w. Thoughts, recommendations? Anything would help.





Renfro said:


> Check this out: http://www.cultilux.com/1000w-de-cmh.html
> 
> Look at that 4k spectrum, that would flower very well IMO. Run them in your DE HPS ballasts. Then you can change bulbs and be CMH or HPS at will.


Mixed HPS with CMH is good choice, but PPF output and reliability of CMH1000W are what you need to consider about. From my opinion cultilux might have better design and more reliable than Nanolux's cmh1000w, their PPF output are at same level 1.7umol/s/w for 3k and 1.6umol/s/w at 4k, also similar spectrum. Wish you can have my bulbs but they are not for sale at the moment


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## pandapots (Oct 13, 2019)

I appreciate the info guys! Definitely looking more into the bulb outputs now, and the idea of getting to use my old fixtures is tempting. Sorry about the 21 questions, but what is your opinion on cleaning the reflectors instead of replacing?

I have some old adjust-a-wing style lights that are about 2 years running, 2 owners, and the last crop was a bit hairy. I'm thinking it was because of poor light quality. Either the bulb (which is more likely imo), or it was the reflector (also a good possibility cuz it had some one-off cleaning streaks). I heard that if you clean the reflectors with alcohol, then clean it with a new rag of ro water and 3% vinegar you wouldn't get those "calcium streaks".


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## Keesje (Oct 14, 2019)

pandapots said:


> I have some old adjust-a-wing style lights that are about 2 years running, 2 owners, and the last crop was a bit hairy. I'm thinking it was because of poor light quality. Either the bulb (which is more likely imo), or it was the reflector (also a good possibility cuz it had some one-off cleaning streaks). I heard that if you clean the reflectors with alcohol, then clean it with a new rag of ro water and 3% vinegar you wouldn't get those "calcium streaks".


Replace the bulbs as well (if they are running for 2 years). Most people I know, replace their bulbs every year (or 5 grows)
Clean the reflectors after every grow. Some reflectors have some protection on it, but cleaning it with water and some vinegar will do no harm. The vinegar will dissolve the calcium. I wonder if you need alcohol (as long as you did not touch the reflectors with sticky fingers or things like that)
Also clean the bulbs after every grow. You can use alcohol for it. Don't touch the glass with your fingers.


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## Renfro (Oct 14, 2019)

Definitely time for new bulbs.

The only time I have heard of replacing reflectors instead of cleaning them is with the nanolux DE lights.


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## cheekah (Oct 14, 2019)

Really nice mate how long you verging them


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## SilentBob024 (Oct 14, 2019)

70's natureboy said:


> Very impressive. I see lots of time and money involved here. Is this how guys sell weed for $100/oz? I don't think so. I still think the $100/oz weed is mostly labor free outdoor weed. I would pass out if i saw your light bill.



LOL I was just thinking the exact same thing actually. Thats one utility bill i wouldnt want to face lol.


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## pandapots (Oct 15, 2019)

Ahhhh this community is blessing. Thanks a ton fellas!


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## 2com (Oct 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> These started 12/12 on 12/11/18 so they are about 23 days into flowering. Another 47ish to go.
> 
> Strain is Gorilla Glue #4. With this strain I manage 42 to 48 pounds.
> 
> ...


That pipe trellis is a win.


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## Renfro (Oct 17, 2019)

2com said:


> That pipe trellis is a win.


Yeah I wasn't fuckin around with that. lol Didn't want some saggy bendy PVC thing that isn't strong. I pull that hortitrellis really tight, surprised what it will take.


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## 2com (Oct 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah I wasn't fuckin around with that. lol Didn't want some saggy bendy PVC thing that isn't strong. I pull that hortitrellis really tight, surprised what it will take.


I made my first trellis from pvc. 1/2" pvc! Lol! Never again.
Is that emt (conduit), or iron pipe, galvanzied, like what is the actual product. Because I'm assuming you didn't have to thread any ends for fittings, which means you didn't have to cut it either?


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## Renfro (Oct 17, 2019)

Galvanized pipe for most but for a few pieces of EMT mounted on the walls.


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## Renfro (Oct 17, 2019)

Well if you wanna get custom then cut pipe with a threader would be handy but I just cleaned out all 4 hardware stores in the area grabbing 4 footers and 5 footers. Of course always have to skip some with beat up threads


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## Renfro (Oct 17, 2019)

Side outlet tees and side outlet elbows are handy.


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## Renfro (Oct 17, 2019)

If you have a welder then it would be cheaper to make out of thinwall with a welder.


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## 2com (Oct 17, 2019)

Welding isn't something I've learned yet. But I've been wanting to for years now.
Yea, those threaded three way elbows and stuff would be great, just like in pvc.


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## Renfro (Oct 17, 2019)

When I put mine up I had to put two halves together using compression unions.


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## WolfieLee (Oct 21, 2019)

Wow! Some Set-up! I was curious. Have you tried the Hortilux Blue Daylight spectrum bulb? It is touted as great for the whole grow... And it has some sort of the LEC or similar new tech. Would love to here from experience on it...


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## Renfro (Oct 21, 2019)

WolfieLee said:


> Wow! Some Set-up! I was curious. Have you tried the Hortilux Blue Daylight spectrum bulb? It is touted as great for the whole grow... And it has some sort of the LEC or similar new tech. Would love to here from experience on it...


Pretty sure they don't make those in DE. Never used one, they are pricey. I have run metal halide DE's as finishing bulbs and they do very well. Running more blue and less red to ripen will increase bud density and the added UV promotes extra resin production. Running them for the last 10 - 14 days maybe even 3 weeks will really up your quality game. You could run them the whole cycle but yields will suffer by around 25% from my experience. I have settled on the Philips DE bulb as my go to, tried hortilux and they are nice but the Philips is definitely better.


----------



## WolfieLee (Oct 21, 2019)

Thanks for the response. You are correct, I have looked...No DE, Just regular and only in 1000W, also... I was looking once for a 600 to fit my ballast... I will take that to heart. If I recall they had been proud there was plenty in the red spec. I think a side by side would be called for with the yield issue you are suspecting would occur... Good food for thought.


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## Renfro (Nov 6, 2019)

So i made a cover for my tent tray, this round its no hydroton. The bends on the long sides keep the cover centered on the tray and make the top ridgid so it wont sag. I was considering using a dimple die on the holes but its already so ridgid there was no need.


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## Keesje (Nov 7, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So i made a cover for my tent tray, this round its no hydroton. The bends on the long sides keep the cover centered on the tray and make the top ridgid so it wont sag. I was considering using a dimple die on the holes but its already so ridgid there was no need.


What kind of material is this?

You say 'no hydroton'. Is there any other medium, or is it no medium at all?


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## Renfro (Nov 7, 2019)

Keesje said:


> What kind of material is this?
> 
> You say 'no hydroton'. Is there any other medium, or is it no medium at all?


Just water and roots in the tray. It's 1/8" aluminum. Coulda went with stainless but the aluminum is lighter and easier to manage so I paid up for that.


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## Renfro (Nov 7, 2019)

Testing this for my commercial operation because dealing with medium of any kind when you have 3500 plants to pot is a pain in the ass lol. At most I will toss a coco mat in the tray bottom.


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## Keesje (Nov 7, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Testing this for my commercial operation because dealing with medium of any kind when you have 3500 plants to pot is a pain in the ass lol. At most I will toss a coco mat in the tray bottom.


Instead of cocos, you could use batting.
Less fibres getting loose.


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## Renfro (Nov 7, 2019)

So just a shot of room A and a shot of my girls monster wedding cake thats touching the sky in there. also a couple shots of room B. all are on day 26 of 12/12.


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## Renfro (Nov 7, 2019)

Keesje said:


> Instead of cocos, you could use batting.
> Less fibres getting loose.
> View attachment 4417622


i like it. good looking out. i may try half and half, inspect roots at harvest to see what they like. thats polyester right?


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## Keesje (Nov 7, 2019)

I think it is polyester most of the time, yes.
It is only to give some support and to keep some water in the tray all the time.
I doubt you need it. So if you do some test, also look at 'without any mat'.

If you buy it in large quantities, it will be cheap.
If it is useless, you can always start with a new hobby: Making Quilts!

Here is a pic of KLX who is growing mediumless. This is all what is left when he is cleaning his tray.


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## Renfro (Nov 7, 2019)

The plants in flower, in 10 gallon buckets of coco are thirsty every 12 hours smh lol. cant let the coco get too dry and they are sucking it down fast.

I should note, last run that I really didn't document much due to life happening ended up yielding just over 54 pounds dry with a little less than 5 pounds of larf. I really wanna hit 60 consistently without including the larf of course. I think its definitely doable with a little more supplement lighting, using LED to replace the HPS on the row ends and adding some more autocbos in dead spots.


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## Renfro (Nov 7, 2019)

Keesje said:


> I think it is polyester most of the time, yes.
> It is only to give some support and to keep some water in the tray all the time.
> I doubt you need it. So if you do some test, also look at 'without any mat'.
> 
> ...


Yeah I don't think a mat is needed, if the tray is level a tiny amount of water sits in the channels and causes issues so I tilt the tray to drain that. Probably best to not have any standing water between floods.


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## Keesje (Nov 7, 2019)

If it is just a little bit, why would it be a problem?
It is not the same water, as every cycle it will get refreshed.
Some water in the channels will even give the roots something to absorb in between cycles.
If they do not absorb it, also no problem. Kratky showed us that roots develop also in still standing water.


----------



## Renfro (Nov 7, 2019)

Keesje said:


> If it is just a little bit, why would it be a problem?
> It is not the same water, as every cycle it will get refreshed.
> Some water in the channels will even give the roots something to absorb in between cycles.
> If they do not absorb it, also no problem. Kratky showed us that roots develop also in still standing water.


Yeah I know about that, the roots currently grow out of my pots and lay in those channels but later in flower they get brown so I just wanna fully drain the tray.


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## Renfro (Nov 10, 2019)

I was bored one night while my girl was watching a chick flick so I made a little spreadsheet to track my coco watering times. This will be handy for future implementation of an auto watering system.

It also makes it so I don't have to think much (mental math is not my strong suit) about when the next watering should be. It uses the interval between the last watering to calculate and estimated time for the next watering. Of course I know that the plants will change if I drop the humidity for example I need to check a little early. I also know the plants will increase drink at certain point and suddenly slow down at some point and I watch for that and adjust timing accordingly. The log allows me to track the room average with multiple strains. Then in the future my auto watering schedule can be setup to match the predicted plant needs. Of course I will have to build some sorta project like an audrino or something to handle that I suppose.

Contrary to common belief coco can be over watered. It doesn't stay over saturated as long as soil and shouldn't be allowed to dry out as much as soil but it does need to dry out some. You don't have to be nearly as precise with watering coco when you err on the side of not letting it dry out but when the plants suddenly slow down on drink, usually somewhere around day 52 of 12/12, you can get root rot if you keep watering at the same frequency that you were when the plants were in thirsty mode. Opposite can be said earlier in flower when they suddenly speed up on drink. Strains vary of course but knowing that it will happen around a certain time allows you to watch for it and be ready to adjust your timing.

Anyways here is my little spreadsheet.



I just enter when I water in the "Watered column" and it does the math. I can make a chart with the watering interval numbers. I can put notes when things happen like if daylight savings time happens or if I notice the plants are speeding up or slowing down on drink... I also have a column for my RH% setting because changing that has an effect on watering frequency. Honestly I added columns for pH and feed mix too lol. It calculates the flower day too. I even used some "IF" statements so it wouldn't show bogus numbers below the row data has been input. Has a sheet for room A and room B.

Gotta love excel, probably the most handy program for growers (other than a web browser lol).


----------



## HURLOW (Nov 10, 2019)

2com said:


> I made my first trellis from pvc. 1/2" pvc! Lol! Never again.
> Is that emt (conduit), or iron pipe, galvanzied, like what is the actual product. Because I'm assuming you didn't have to thread any ends for fittings, which means you didn't have to cut it either?


CAn you tell me is this company good to order from I'm new to it. Thanks


----------



## Renfro (Nov 10, 2019)

HURLOW said:


> CAn you tell me is this company good to order from I'm new to it. Thanks


What company?


----------



## diggs99 (Nov 11, 2019)

lol any company bro




i concur, coco can def be overwatered 
Loving the room bud, your girls WC is a beast lol. My WC is almost done, if it smokes as good as it looks and smells, we have a winner


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## 2com (Nov 11, 2019)

Renfro said:


> i like it. good looking out. i may try half and half, inspect roots at harvest to see what they like. thats polyester right?


There was a guy on youtube using that in his trays. Polyester batting, or maybe even felt batting. As long as it's inert and won't break down. It works pretty good.

Oh - there's this new "hemp mat" stuff too you could check out, but that's gonna decompose pretty quick from the one usage example I've seen on youtube.


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## 2com (Nov 11, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I was bored one night while my girl was watching a chick flick so I made a little spreadsheet to track my coco watering times. This will be handy for future implementation of an auto watering system.
> 
> It also makes it so I don't have to think much (mental math is not my strong suit) about when the next watering should be. It uses the interval between the last watering to calculate and estimated time for the next watering. Of course I know that the plants will change if I drop the humidity for example I need to check a little early. I also know the plants will increase drink at certain point and suddenly slow down at some point and I watch for that and adjust timing accordingly. The log allows me to track the room average with multiple strains. Then in the future my auto watering schedule can be setup to match the predicted plant needs. Of course I will have to build some sorta project like an audrino or something to handle that I suppose.
> 
> ...


I'm guessing you use excel on a daily basis, probably for work. Lol.


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## Renfro (Nov 11, 2019)

2com said:


> I'm guessing you use excel on a daily basis, probably for work. Lol.


Growing weed is my work. Used to use it at work like 20 years ago in 1999, that was my last year of slave labor.


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## 2com (Nov 11, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Growing weed is my work.


Where do I send resume? Jokes 


Renfro said:


> that was my last year of _slave labor_


Honest individual identified. Lol.


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## Renfro (Nov 11, 2019)

2com said:


> Where do I send resume? Jokes
> 
> Honest individual identified. Lol.


We will probably be hiring next fall / winter.


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Nov 11, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Growing weed is my work. Used to use it at work like 20 years ago in 1999, that was my last year of slave labor.


That's awesome!


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## Renfro (Nov 11, 2019)

Fucked up thing about my spreadsheet, as soon as I made it the Gorilla Glue and Mimosa started drinking every 11 hours and the others want 16 hours. smdh. can't win even with coco. Just wanna water them all at once, even if it's twice a damn day.


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Nov 11, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Fucked up thing about my spreadsheet, as soon as I made it the Gorilla Glue and Mimosa started drinking every 11 hours and the others want 16 hours. smdh. can't win even with coco. Just wanna water them all at once, even if it's twice a damn day.


If we had an auto watering system, that would be nice. Some days are harder that others, but like today, only 7 out of 122 needed feed/water. Easy day. But tomorrow, you never know, we might have 23 that need water, and 18 that need feed. Paige likes to saturate the shit out of them, so the runoff is crazy. We usually figure 3 gallons per plant after we get a count on what needs what in 7 gallon pots. We prob waste of bunch of nutes, but it makes her happy for some reason. She's a woman, so I just let her do her thing. LOL.


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Nov 11, 2019)

@Renfro Is this the Coco Cork you were telling me about by DNA?


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## Renfro (Nov 11, 2019)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> @Renfro Is this the Coco Cork you were telling me about by DNA?


Yes, I love it. The plants are really liking it. I do have to water it more often than soil and it is more forgiving about watering than soil (had to let tht dry all the way). At least with the coco I can water some plants a little early and go to bed lol.

I just can't get comfortable with automating watering unless I am monocropping.


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## Renfro (Nov 11, 2019)

I like to water heavy but you can over water coco so I wanna let it dry out to where my soil moisture meter reads middle green, with soil I have to let it get to the bottom of the green. Some strains just drink a lot less or they do their speed up and slow down at different times.


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Nov 11, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I like to water heavy but you can over water coco so I wanna let it dry out to where my soil moisture meter reads middle green , with soil I have to let it get to the bottom of the green. Some strains just drink a lot less or they do their speed up and slow down at different times.


Yes sir!.. They do!. in soil, we wait til it's just about in the red, and some may look like they are starting to droop a little, then feed the shit out of them. We are interested in looking into the DNA Coco Cork next run tho for sure.... The bark in the BM7 seems to crash your PH like you said.. We still have to feed in at 7.25-7.5 to maintain mid 6's. We go through a lot of Rasta PH up. I have found that Rasta is much more powerful that the GH we were using. Rasta at least gives what's in it on the label. GH really gives no info other than its Phosphoric Acid.


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## Renfro (Nov 11, 2019)

I use the Advanced pH buffers, they are the strongest I know of that are marketed to growers. One could always just buy concentrated lab grade acids and bases like phosphoric acid and potassium hydroxide and potassium carbonate.


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## 2com (Nov 12, 2019)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> She's a woman, so I just let her do her thing. LOL.


Mr. Reynolds! Is that really you? Wow, Turd Ferguson in the flesh (well, online).


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## Nizza (Nov 12, 2019)

check this thing out ren https://www.bluelab.com/Pulse


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## Renfro (Nov 12, 2019)

Nizza said:


> check this thing out ren https://www.bluelab.com/Pulse


It's cool but my cheapo moisture meters work well and only make one hole. That said they don't read EC but I really don't require that since I water with lots of runoff with my drainage system.


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## Bri62 (Nov 16, 2019)

thenasty1 said:


> chs is supposed to be pretty rare. is this the first opinion shes gotten?


CHS is not rare. Many users are suffering but not being diagnosed properly.


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## Bri62 (Nov 16, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well she is on state healthcare so it's not like there is an abundance of opinions being offered lol. She had been to the er 3 times before they finally admitted her into the hospital. the dr at the hospital says he has seen at least 20 cases of CHS, and he was young. Thing is she had smoked before the first ER visit, but after that she was so sick she didn't want to smoke anything. So she has been like a week without weed and she is still sick. It's supposed to pass in 4 or 5 days from what I gather. Anyways time will tell if they are correct, she plans to stop smoking weed and eating edibles. So if she continues to get sick then it's not cannabis. If it is CHS then thats fine, she just doesn't wanna come home and be in pain and vomiting again. The ER was less than helpfull, they just assumed she was trying to get pain meds when all she wanted was to be able to eat and not get terribly sick and be in a lot of pain. she also says she feels like there is a mass pressing on her stomach when it hurts. She hasn't held down food in over 5 days and held down very little for a couple days before that. I feel so bad for her. they looked at her stomach and it's fine. Her gall bladder has stones but they said the test doesn't show any inflammation of the gall bladder.


Because the THC is stored in fat cells it can take longer to clear her system.


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## G-money123 (Nov 16, 2019)

Very good journal ! Good luck


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## G-money123 (Nov 16, 2019)

Hey are you still using general hydroponics nutrients ?


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## Renfro (Nov 17, 2019)

So babies that I have vegging for next round:

Gelato 33 - Larry Bird Cut
GMO - Skunkmaster Flex Cut
Blue Cookies
Freezer Burn x Lemon Fire - Caps Cut
Mimosa - Symbiotics Breeder Cut 
Kushmints - Rabbid Hippy Cut
Punch Breath
OCD x M15 - Caps Cut
MAC 1 - Caps Cut
Romulan
Sunset Sherbert x High Octane - Breeders Cut (BX1)
Wedding Cake

Notice no Glue? Still have it as a mommy but giving her a minute off.

I have noticed with the coco the plants definitely grow more like in hydro as opposed to soil. Hollow stems is a hydro trait and I am seeing that, all of the sudden during week 3 the plants ramped up on drink, I have some that drink every 7-8 hours, some every 10-12. I am letting them dry to where my moisture meter reads middle green instead of bottom green as I did with soil, they seem to like that. Have a couple punch breath plants that weren't drinking nearly as fast as the others when I first moved them into 10 gallon pots and the flowering rooms, I was watering them with the others and it stunted them for sure, you can over water coco. So I started using the moisture meter and letting the plants tell me when it's time. So much for being able to water all the plants at once twice a day. The mimosa and GG4 for example are super thirsty while the Divine Gelato 33 is really slow. Normally I don't have to run a dehumidifier until much later but I am really having to crank the dehu's for the last 5 days or so even though it's low outside as usual. The plants are just transpiring a lot more. Growth was extreme, and because of that many got a little taller than I would like so I am having to fight that. Also had some strains I didn't run before. If I stick with coco I will definitely be doing an auto watering system because these plants have me on the short leash. I digress, I am rambling.

Day 28 - A couple shots from tonite, sorry about the HPS, left my grow glasses in my car.


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## Renfro (Nov 17, 2019)

G-money123 said:


> Hey are you still using general hydroponics nutrients ?


Yes. Love the stuff, haven't yet had anything replicate the results I get with flavor and yield.


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## Keesje (Nov 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yes. Love the stuff, haven't yet had anything replicate the results I get with flavor and yield.


Which line of GH are you using?


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Nov 17, 2019)

@Renfro You got some monsters going in there bud! Looking good!


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## Renfro (Nov 17, 2019)

Keesje said:


> Which line of GH are you using?


Flora 3 Part


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## Keesje (Nov 18, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Flora 3 Part


What EC are you maintaining?
(I heard that with this line one should go lower in EC as with other brands


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## Renfro (Nov 18, 2019)

Keesje said:


> What EC are you maintaining?
> (I heard that with this line one should go lower in EC as with other brands


Around 1100 ppm in coco. Won't be applicable in most situations.


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## Keesje (Nov 18, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Around 1100 ppm in coco. Won't be applicable in most situations.


Could you explain that a bit more?


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## 2com (Nov 18, 2019)

Renfro said:


> If I stick with coco I will definitely be doing an auto watering system.


I think I'm having an automation revelation. I like to design and tinker too much. Hand watering and constant manual measuring and manipulating is time consuming. Haha.


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## Renfro (Nov 18, 2019)

2com said:


> I think I'm having an automation revelation. I like to design and tinker too much. Hand watering and constant manual measuring and manipulating is time consuming. Haha.


Yeah I was always thinking of a system with a probe in each pot that would watch moisture levels and water each plant individually as needed via solenoid valves / pump. But I learned the moisture probes I have seen don't like to sit in the soil constantly, they become off very fast.


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## PadawanWarrior (Nov 19, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So babies that I have vegging for next round:
> 
> Gelato 33 - Larry Bird Cut
> GMO - Skunkmaster Flex Cut
> ...


I'm done looking at your plants man. They just make me jealous, haha.


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## westcoast420 (Nov 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Around 1100 ppm in coco. Won't be applicable in most situations.


Looking good in there. What additives are you rocking? Used gh 3part for a long time but giving megacrop a go now. Are you feeding with runoff? Setting up a auto drip system would make your life a whole lot easier in there. You can dial in pretty easily how much there drinking per day and set up drippers for each plant. If some are drinking more just add another dripper. For example, When I was growing coco trees, some plants would have 1 2gal/hr drippers, some would have 1 2gal plus a 1 gal/hr, or a 2plus a half gal/hr. Then you can get it to where you can feed them all set on a timer once or twice a day or how ever often you like. I fed 12 times a day. Anyway just food for thought if you ever go that way.


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## SourDeezz (Nov 21, 2019)

Hey Ren, how do I send you a DM? Had a few questions for ya.


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## Renfro (Nov 21, 2019)

westcoast420 said:


> Looking good in there. What additives are you rocking? Used gh 3part for a long time but giving megacrop a go now. Are you feeding with runoff? Setting up a auto drip system would make your life a whole lot easier in there. You can dial in pretty easily how much there drinking per day and set up drippers for each plant. If some are drinking more just add another dripper. For example, When I was growing coco trees, some plants would have 1 2gal/hr drippers, some would have 1 2gal plus a 1 gal/hr, or a 2plus a half gal/hr. Then you can get it to where you can feed them all set on a timer once or twice a day or how ever often you like. I fed 12 times a day. Anyway just food for thought if you ever go that way.


The list of my feed components is in the first post. I keep it simple.

It's not about the amount of water each plant gets, thats the same, it's about how often it requires water (time it takes to dry enough).



SourDeezz said:


> Hey Ren, how do I send you a DM? Had a few questions for ya.


You should be able to message users by clicking on their avatar.


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## SourDeezz (Nov 21, 2019)

Renfro said:


> The list of my feed components is in the first post. I keep it simple.
> 
> It's not about the amount of water each plant gets, thats the same, it's about how often it requires water (time it takes to dry enough).
> 
> ...


I get a message that says "
*Oops! We ran into some problems.*

This member limits who may view their full profile.
"


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## Renfro (Nov 21, 2019)

SourDeezz said:


> I get a message that says "
> *Oops! We ran into some problems.*
> 
> This member limits who may view their full profile.
> "


you dont have to view the profile, simply placing the cursor on on the avatar should result in a popup that has a button to start a conversation.


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## Renfro (Nov 23, 2019)

With this coco and all these plants I am having high humidity. So my buddy got me a sweet deal on a new Quest 205 Dehumidifier. $2500 NIB. Thing is a beast. At about 150# I am gonna replace it's feet with wheels lol. You can get a ducting kit for it so I think I will make use of some unused space under my stairwell and that way it won't be in my rooms. I could hang it from the ceiling but I have nowhere to do that.


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## hybridway2 (Nov 24, 2019)

WolfieLee said:


> Thanks for the response. You are correct, I have looked...No DE, Just regular and only in 1000W, also... I was looking once for a 600 to fit my ballast... I will take that to heart. If I recall they had been proud there was plenty in the red spec. I think a side by side would be called for with the yield issue you are suspecting would occur... Good food for thought.


They make the Hortri Daylight Blue in 600w. It has a heavier red spectrum then the 1000w.


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## hybridway2 (Nov 24, 2019)

Renfro said:


> With this coco and all these plants I am having high humidity. So my buddy got me a sweet deal on a new Quest 205 Dehumidifier. $2500 NIB. Thing is a beast. At about 150# I am gonna replace it's feet with wheels lol. You can get a ducting kit for it so I think I will make use of some unused space under my stairwell and that way it won't be in my rooms. I could hang it from the ceiling but I have nowhere to do that.


Nice! Congrats! Similiar problem with humidity swings. Bought a humidity sensor that kicks on the exhaust fans. But this is only for lights out. Almost bought a Quest but cheeped out n got x2 big HomeDepot self pumping de-hu's. 
Its getting the job done. But only works providing i have regulated the side the intake comes from. Making sure high humidity doesn't enter the room at this time.
Week 3 De-fo & De-Fo in general helps allot but you know this


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## dakindgrind (Nov 24, 2019)

Hey Renfro thanks for documenting your work and sharing your years of experience, I'm late to the party but have read through your whole thread. 



Renfro said:


> With this coco and all these plants I am having high humidity. So my buddy got me a sweet deal on a new Quest 205 Dehumidifier. $2500 NIB. Thing is a beast. At about 150# I am gonna replace it's feet with wheels lol. You can get a ducting kit for it so I think I will make use of some unused space under my stairwell and that way it won't be in my rooms. I could hang it from the ceiling but I have nowhere to do that.


When you say high humidity what RH are you talking about? Also to clarify you've switched from a peat based mix to a coco in your 10 gals and watering everyday? That is a ton of moisture if so, where do you like to keep your RH? I've tried following the VPD in many a room but with sealed and co2 i stay 60% or below and they still chug a high EC.

I'm running a similar system flipflopping 2 sealed rooms (15x12), recirculating with an in-between mixing chamber (10x15) where my cloners and veg sit along with my mini split handler. In 5gal coco drain buckets, my mini split handles the humidity during lights on but by day21 have had to implement dehueys in each bloom room for lights off. 

Also I read your back to your tried and true GH formula, what did you notice about the Jacks mix that you didn't like? I have been running salts for a while with a couple other additives and love it, though your results are certainly inspiring.


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## Renfro (Nov 24, 2019)

dakindgrind said:


> When you say high humidity what RH are you talking about?


I want to keep my flowering rooms at 45 - 50%. It was getting up to the mid 60's when dark and in the mid 50's lights on. I avoid VPD in mid to late flower as I have seen too many cases of budrot. It's a no go for me in mid to late flower.

The Jacks just fucked the hell outta my plants. As soon as I went back to gh they were happy and I don't want to lose a crop experimenting. Jacks would have to be done on a small scale first and I just don't have the time, space or even want to do that presently when I get such great results with the GH.


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## Renfro (Nov 24, 2019)

My grow is definitely different than most. I push my plants pretty hard with the CO2, warmth, intense lighting including side lighting. My veg room isn't like that. I notice when I move plants into flowering rooms to veg a little more I have to adjust them by bring the numbers up incrementally. If I roll them in there with all lights cranked and CO2 at 1200 PPM and all that jazz they puke. Things they would tolerate in the vegroom are no longer tolerated when pushing them harder. pH needs to be on point and the feed as well. They can seem ok but when pushed harder they can't get enough of something and you check the soil pH and find it's 5.7 or some shit lol. So when pushing them harder things have to be spot on, they won't be forgiving. This is probably why I have to feed every watering, not water/feed alternating as many get away with. This is also why I have to keep my root zone dialed in pH wise. I think many growers don't push this hard and they get away with rootzone pH thats off (don't see major deficiencies) but if it was on their results would be better I am sure.


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## Renfro (Nov 24, 2019)

Hope that made sense I am so high and tired.


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## Renfro (Nov 24, 2019)

I have to water in the dark as my plants get parched lol. Every 6 - 8 hours at peak, thats in 10 gallon pots. A lot of drying happens in that last hour too so you gotta be on point. This coco is nuts.


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## dakindgrind (Nov 24, 2019)

Yes I understood, thanks for the quick and detailed run down.

I keep my co2 around 1000ppm, though for the few hrs it can jump to 1500ppm + what with the rooms recirculating, and the off room dumping and mixing with the on room. Do you notice a big difference between 1000 and 1200 ppm?

Im watering everyday in my coco 5’s, pushing about 1-1.5gal through just to keep them voracious. Always feed/feed never a water, though maybe a lower ec feed every 3-4 feedings. How many gallons do you end up pushing your your big girls in 10gal coco? Also what brand coco are you using?

I’m interested in what jacks formula you tried and what ec you ran it at and when, there is certainly a sweet spot and of course every room can vary. To keep my plants from cannabalizing themselves they need at least 1.0ec base nutes and that can go as high as 1.5 depending on which lighting they’re under.

If you’re watering as often as you are and in the dark I would set up pulse feed drip system that runs off a cycle stat. I love em and have used them most the time, though this is my first run in a new build so im hose watering 2x a day everyday until i can take the training wheels off.


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## Joedank (Nov 24, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Yeah I was always thinking of a system with a probe in each pot that would watch moisture levels and water each plant individually as needed via solenoid valves / pump. But I learned the moisture probes I have seen don't like to sit in the soil constantly, they become off very fast.


I am sure you have looked in these but troph blumats are pretty close to what your talking about


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## Renfro (Nov 24, 2019)

Joedank said:


> I am sure you have looked in these but troph blumats are pretty close to what your talking about


They are pricey, I am worried they will plug with my bennies, I am also concerned about the depth of my 10 gallon pots. I know I would need more than one carrot per pot. I have thought about them.


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## Renfro (Nov 24, 2019)

dakindgrind said:


> If you’re watering as often as you are and in the dark I would set up pulse feed drip system that runs off a cycle stat.


Different plants different rates and times.


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## Renfro (Nov 24, 2019)

TBH auto watering is abandoned because of the need to adjust pH. If I have auto watering I wont check my plants coco pH and group them for adjustments.


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## 2com (Nov 24, 2019)

Renfro said:


> The Jacks just fucked the hell outta my plants. As soon as I went back to gh they were happy and I don't want to lose a crop experimenting.


You take that back, right now. Lol.


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## ttystikk (Nov 24, 2019)

Renfro said:


> They are pricey, I am worried they will plug with my bennies, I am also concerned about the depth of my 10 gallon pots. I know I would need more than one carrot per pot. I have thought about them.


Blumats will clog with anything but fully dissolved hydro nutes. Even then I'm told you only run 1/4 strength because they won't water to runoff.

Frankly, your setup is killing it and Blumats would cost a crop experimenting. Why risk it?


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## Renfro (Nov 24, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> Blumats will cook with anything but fully dissolved hydro nutes. Even then I'm told you only run 1/4 strength because they won't water to runoff.
> 
> Frankly, your setup is killing it and Blumats would cost a crop experimenting. Why risk it?


My thoughts exactly. With 10 gallon pots I doubt the bottom would even stay moist lol.


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## diggs99 (Nov 25, 2019)

Eveyrthing looking on point in here as usual. 

Wheres wifeys Cake? i wanna see the cake bro


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## Renfro (Nov 25, 2019)

Well pictures will have to wait a bit, I am so busy and wore out, last few days of working has been unreal. When I am on here I am just taking a quick smoke break. Managed to pull a dedicated 20 amp 120 volt feed for the new Quest 205 dehumidifier. Did tons of other shit lol.


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## diggs99 (Nov 25, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Well pictures will have to wait a bit, I am so busy and wore out, last few days of working has been unreal. When I am on here I am just taking a quick smoke break. Managed to pull a dedicated 20 amp 120 volt feed for the new Quest 205 dehumidifier. Did tons of other shit lol.


Ya I seen you mention the new quest. No doubt it's all work lol. You ain't a hobby grower bro lol


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## Renfro (Nov 25, 2019)

Damn that dehumidifier is a beast. It pulls the room down fast and kicks off.


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## Renfro (Nov 25, 2019)

It looks like the plants are doing the first stage of slowing down on drink, thats great, sure don't relish having to water every 6 to 8 hours.


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## 2com (Nov 25, 2019)

Renfro said:


> It looks like the plants are doing the first stage of slowing down on drink, thats great, sure don't relish having to water every 6 to 8 hours.


Hey Renfro,
Could you tell me how you went about sizing you dehu? Was it just kinda going off sq. footage, or canopy/plant area, or did you try and calculate the total amount of water input/output - like the transpiration in pints and do some calculations to estimate/figure it out that way?


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## Renfro (Nov 25, 2019)

2com said:


> Hey Renfro,
> Could you tell me how you went about sizing you dehu? Was it just kinda going off sq. footage, or canopy/plant area, or did you try and calculate the total amount of water input/output - like the transpiration in pints and do some calculations to estimate/figure it out that way?


Honestly my buddy got a deal on it and I knew it was overkill but I am ok with that. I timed it and when it kicks on at 50.1% it takes about 4.5 minutes to bring the room down to 45% and kick off. I know short cycling isn't ideal but it gets the job done. After this harvest I plan to move it under my stairs in area I can't otherwise use for much, then using the duct kit make it run both flowering rooms. I can zone it since it has the 24V control option. But for now it has solved the problem.


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## Renfro (Nov 25, 2019)

Dehumidifier sizing is complicated TBH. Many dehumidifiers don't pull as much as they say for one reason. The other reason is people have varying biomass / transpiration loads as well as different ambient humidity.

I have seen basic ass 80 pint units outrun some of the fancy 100+ pint commercial units. Thats why I like to stick with brands like Phoenix or Quest that actually do what they say they will.


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## 2com (Nov 25, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Dehumidifier sizing is complicated TBH. Many dehumidifiers don't pull as much as they say for one reason. The other reason is people have varying biomass / transpiration loads as well as different ambient humidity.
> 
> I have seen basic ass 80 pint units outrun some of the fancy 100+ pint commercial units. Thats why I like to stick with brands like Phoenix or Quest that actually do what they say they will.


This is why I ask, because it's not really discussed in a proper way, in my opinion - just having started trying to get some understanding of it. Quest has a short video on it actually. Everest Fernandez has a good one, and there's another on cannabis and dehumidifier sizing (nothing specific to cannabis though, really).

So yea, variables aside (there's always the same variables between gardens), when you chose one, how do you? Like when you were building this room you're in now, did you just go shopping for a dehu and look on the box for recommendations like "does a 1500 sq. foot apartment" or whatever the boxes say (not criticizing...this is what they give us to work with, lol), or do you just try and buy the highest rated pints per day unit available at consumer stores?
I'm curious, as that's what I've done - and anyone else I know who doesn't have a garden the size of a small warehouse/requiring a quest style dehu. Hah.

Thanks.


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## Renfro (Nov 25, 2019)

TBH I was able to get away with an 80 pint kenmore in Missouri where we had more humidity, that was in a 12kW room. Here I have two 10 kW rooms and an 80 pint won't touch it now with the coco in play. When I was running soil I had low humidity and had to run a swamp cooler. So changing to coco really blew up the transpiration rates.

So I am more confused than ever when it comes to dehu sizing. One thing I do know, a good dehu is way better than a shitty one. The Quest pulls more water in 5 minutes than 3 of my other dehus do in a couple hours.


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## Renfro (Nov 26, 2019)

So I really love the quest dehumidifier. I have some plans for it's big ass after this harvest.


Put 3 inch heavy duty casters on it so I can roll it easy. (Ordered)
Move it to the space under my stairs that is currently only used as storage, then using the ducting kit plumb it through the wall into room B.
Build a device with a contactor and delay on break timer so I can plug that into my autopilot environmental controller and have it control the dehumidifier through it's 24v control circuit. I find the internal humidistat setting needs to be changed often to keep the humidity correct, this will fix that by letting the autopilot decide whats up. This will avoid having the dehumidifier run during a vent cycle as well. The adjustable delay on break timer will keep the dehumidifier from being short cycled and encountering rotor lock from vapor pressure on the high side of the refrigerant circuit. I have found it needs about 5 minutes to safely restart without popping it's breaker so I will set the delay to 7 minutes. This delay happens from the time the dehumidifier is turned off so if 6 minutes has passed when it's turned back on it will wait 1 minute. If it's >=7 minutes after then it won't wait. This is handy for HID lighting controllers as well, if the power flickers it waits for the lamps to cool before trying to restart them although some new digital ballasts have their own internal delay.
I am babbling... lol


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## Keesje (Nov 26, 2019)

Babble on. No worries 

Does it produce a lot of heat while dehumidifying?


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## Renfro (Nov 26, 2019)

Keesje said:


> Babble on. No worries
> 
> Does it produce a lot of heat while dehumidifying?


Ya know it's not as bad as I would expect for such a large unit. When my lights are off my autopilot takes over to handle heat by venting, this gives me a room exchange at lights out. When lights are off it pushes it down to 75F and lets it rise to 80F. Its taking about an hour and 20 minutes to kick on a vent cycle. Here in Colorado, most all of the time that actually drops the humidity since it usually so low outside. It doesn't seem to strain the AC.


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## Renfro (Nov 26, 2019)

I changed out the RO filter cartridges today. I decided to order a flow rate meter. It will let me know when output is slowing down so I know it's time to change the membrane. It will also total the gallons output. I have another meter that tallys the gallons input.






HM Digital Flow Monitor 891144000465: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


HM Digital Flow Monitor 891144000465: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com


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## Bubbas.dad (Dec 2, 2019)

I have been following your grow journal here. How is it going?


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## Renfro (Dec 2, 2019)

Meter testing and calibration party. lol


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## Renfro (Dec 3, 2019)

So I picked up one of those 3 channel networkable temp / humidity dealios. Pretty cool. I mainly got it so I could get alerts sent to my phone when temp or humidity is out of spec. Works great. No I am not concerned about it being secure as my grow is legal.

Some data collected from room a.


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## sandman83 (Dec 3, 2019)

what dehumidifier would you recommend for a smaller 2kw room renfro?


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## Renfro (Dec 3, 2019)

sandman83 said:


> what dehumidifier would you recommend for a smaller 2kw room renfro?


Depends a lot on your climate. Maybe an 80 pint?


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## diggs99 (Dec 3, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Depends a lot on your climate. Maybe an 80 pint?


My 60 pint works great in my 7x14 room.

I'm sure an 80 would be even better.


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## Keesje (Dec 3, 2019)

Besides the climate where you live, it will also depend on how many plants you have and what kind.
Some 'drink' 8 liter per square meter per day, others 12 liter per square meter.


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## Renfro (Dec 3, 2019)

Keesje said:


> Besides the climate where you live, it will also depend on how many plants you have and what kind.
> Some 'drink' 8 liter per square meter per day, others 12 liter per square meter.


This is very true. When I just changed from soil to coco with the same number of plants and pot size, I went from not even needing dehumidification to needing a LOT during peak drink. Blew me away.


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## sandman83 (Dec 3, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Depends a lot on your climate. Maybe an 80 pint?


sorry I had more meant, is there a good brand or model you recommend? I figured sizing would be plant mass dependant as you indicated.


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## Renfro (Dec 3, 2019)

So I got a new networked temperature / humidity dealio. A sensor for each room. I got it because I wanted to get text message notifications if the temp / humidity gets out of range.

Here is a chart for room A. Seeing the temp and humidity graphs really shows the temp drop / RH% rise happen at lights out (3:45 AM in this case).



In my rooms the dehumidification creates heat and when the room hits 80 my intake (cold dry air) runs it down to 75F to push some humidity out but not get it so cool that the dehumidifiers don't work. As you can see it's a balancing act. When my plants are at peak drink the dehumidifiers require some help from my ventilation, good thing I live in a fucking desert with low RH% lol.


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## Renfro (Dec 3, 2019)

sandman83 said:


> sorry I had more meant, is there a good brand or model you recommend? I figured sizing would be plant mass dependant as you indicated.


Quest, Phoenix, Fantech, Drizair, Ideal Air and EBAC are all really good ones that I have used. As to more consumer grade units the only experience I have is pretty dated. I have an old Kenmore 80 pint that still works like a champ but a lot can change in 20 years. Make sure the one you get will "auto restart after power outage". This is critical for 2 reasons. The obvious one of course but also if you intend to plug it into an environmental controller it needs to fire up when power is turned on and off at the receptacle. Most dehumidifiers have inaccurate hygrometers and thus you either have to figure out where it needs to be set to achieve your set point or use an external controller and set the dehumidifier to "always on". Another issue with old school analog "knob" style hygrometers is they need a different setting for different temperatures. My Quest has one internally, I have to adjust it for day / night as it needs a harder working (lower) RH% setting when the lights are off or it will shut off too soon. It seems to be about a 8 - 9% difference in my case. Simply bypassing the internal controller (an option) lets me use my Autopilot to turn it on and off, eliminating the issue.


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## Keesje (Dec 4, 2019)

Renfro said:


> My Quest has one internally, I have to adjust it for day / night as it needs a harder working (lower) RH% setting when the lights are off or it will shut off too soon. It seems to be about a 8 - 9% difference in my case. Simply bypassing the internal controller (an option) lets me use my Autopilot to turn it on and off, eliminating the issue.


Does your dehumidifier have a day and night mode?
How does the device know it is night? Is it with a clockwork or with a light sensor?


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## Stipulus (Dec 4, 2019)

megrowweed said:


> Hey, sorry if i post this here but i need some help quick. My plant is in week 4 of flower and has gone really bushy inspite of me defoliating it in week 2. What should i do defoliate again? Or do i just leave it here are some pictures for reference.


Dont defoliate, pull the branches down and expose more branches...thats all I do, I barely defoliate during flowering until the last two weeks to expose buds and harden them up


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## Renfro (Dec 4, 2019)

Keesje said:


> Does your dehumidifier have a day and night mode?
> How does the device know it is night? Is it with a clockwork or with a light sensor?


Re read my post. It's not right, needs adjusted twice a day. lights on and lights off.


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## dakindgrind (Dec 4, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So I got a new networked temperature / humidity dealio. A sensor for each room. I got it because I wanted to get text message notifications if the temp / humidity gets out of range.
> 
> Here is a chart for room A. Seeing the temp and humidity graphs really shows the temp drop / RH% rise happen at lights out (3:45 AM in this case).
> 
> ...


What size intake are you running? 
Do you have separate intakes for each room or a single intake that mixes between rooms?
Are you recirculating the air between all rooms or do you have dedicated cooling / dehumidifying?

Also when do you cut back on your co2?

I love those sensors you got to monitor temp and RH. Whats the highest temp you’ve ran your rooms before seeing negative impacts? For some reason I though you were running hotter.


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## Renfro (Dec 9, 2019)

Here is a day 50 shot of some glue. A few leaning colas about to lay down on the trellis to bask in the light, as some others already have.


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## Renfro (Dec 9, 2019)

dakindgrind said:


> What size intake are you running?


There is a 10 and a 8 in one room that I ran before I bought AC. The other room only has an 8.



dakindgrind said:


> Are you recirculating the air between all rooms or do you have dedicated cooling / dehumidifying?


Independent rooms as they are on a flip.



dakindgrind said:


> Also when do you cut back on your co2?


Start the incremental droppage about 3 weeks before chop so it varies by strain. Like the GMO is a 85+day plant and the Glue is a 73 day plant.



dakindgrind said:


> Whats the highest temp you’ve ran your rooms before seeing negative impacts? For some reason I though you were running hotter.


Varies depending on when. Early flower up to 87-90F canopy, mid flower more like 85-88 and late flower in the upper 70's.


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## Renfro (Dec 9, 2019)

I will go down and try to get a few nug shots real quick. brb


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## Renfro (Dec 9, 2019)

Divine Gelato 3


Freezer Burn x Lemon Fire


Gg4


Sunset Sherbert x High Octane


Kushmints


MAC 1


Blue Cookies


OCD X M15


Not the best pics but you get the idea lol. I took some others that didnt come out in room A with the lights off. Ill try to remember those later tonight when the room is lit.


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## Thundercat (Dec 9, 2019)

Killing as usual homie, nice work!


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## Renfro (Dec 9, 2019)

So just for those that think you can't feed, feed, feed without burn. These clones have been vegging in a peat based mix, Berger BM6. They haven't had plain water since they had roots. Feed is at 1100 PPM since potted in 6 inch square pots. I water them with minimal runoff since the babies don't have a drainage setup. The right feed at the right pH will be just fine. Thats many different strains too.


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## kroc (Dec 9, 2019)

How often are you watering the 6in ones? Thinking of switching to peat from coco, you're kinda selling me 

edit: went back and read a bit, "they go from needing water every 2 days to every 24hrs" and i remember you saying some are drinking twice a day this last round? Lookin good


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## diggs99 (Dec 10, 2019)

Looking great in here bro. 

That MAC1 is all frost lol


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## Renfro (Dec 10, 2019)

kroc said:


> How often are you watering the 6in ones? Thinking of switching to peat from coco, you're kinda selling me
> 
> edit: went back and read a bit, "they go from needing water every 2 days to every 24hrs" and i remember you saying some are drinking twice a day this last round? Lookin good


Those are in soil (Berger BM6) if they were in coco I would probably have to water them every 2 hours lol. They get water once a day right now, almost time to put them in the 10 gallon pots with the coco and it's gonna get super crowded in there. Gonna have to prune the hell outta some mothers.


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## Renfro (Dec 10, 2019)

In flower at peak the 10 gallon pots needed water every 4 - 6 hours! 2.5 gal each.

I may run soil in one room and coco in the other or do both in soil since it will be warming up and fighting humidity is gonna be a bitch with the coco. Still figuring that out.


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## Bubbas.dad (Dec 10, 2019)

Amazing.


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## oswizzle (Dec 10, 2019)

Renfro ... which of those genetics do you like the best and why.. they all look dank


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## Renfro (Dec 11, 2019)

oswizzle said:


> Renfro ... which of those genetics do you like the best and why.. they all look dank


It's hard to say, they are all good ones and I haven't been running them long enough to really know them well. If I had to pick one right now I would be VERY hard pressed. I start to think of one and another pops in mind. The Blue Cheese is really sexy but so is the OCD x M15. So I will have to dry and smoke them, probably run them another time or two before I could even decide one to cull let alone the best one.


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## Renfro (Dec 11, 2019)

If you aren't patient or have limited space then the GMO is not for you. I was told she needs 12 weeks to finish, I didn't think all of the extra time would be in stretch!


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## dakindgrind (Dec 11, 2019)

The OCDxM15 sounds like another win for Cap. I'm curious what shines through the most on her, the oc, stardawg, colombian, or sfighter?

Have the Mac1 waiting to be cycled through. How do you like her? Does she pound or?

Are you taking the GMO 12 wks? Have a cut of her as well and have been told she can be cut early as 9 but wants 11-12 to shine. I guess that's a benefit though running strains that finish at different times.

Are you running staggered rooms or pulling the trigger on all and flip-flopping?

Also I looked for it but maybe missed it, what moisture probe do you use? Was reading how often you were watering (watering in the dark) and it blew my mind. 

How do you like the coco vs the peat? Bigger plants? More or less watering?

What are you using to bump up your P for finishing?

Sorry for all the ?'s, I hope they're not redundant and only add to the conversation.


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## Renfro (Dec 13, 2019)

dakindgrind said:


> The OCDxM15 sounds like another win for Cap. I'm curious what shines through the most on her, the oc, stardawg, colombian, or sfighter?


I dunno, haven't smoked her yet.



dakindgrind said:


> Have the Mac1 waiting to be cycled through. How do you like her? Does she pound or?


Amazing strain, super frosty as advertised, smell is very sweet and berryish, at least right now for me, she could change as she ripens. Definitely a plant that requires some serious defoliation, leafy bastard.



dakindgrind said:


> Are you running staggered rooms or pulling the trigger on all and flip-flopping?


All and flip flop for power.



dakindgrind said:


> Also I looked for it but maybe missed it, what moisture probe do you use? Was reading how often you were watering (watering in the dark) and it blew my mind.





https://www.amazon.com/XLUX-Soil-Moisture-Sensor-Meter/dp/B014MJ8J2U/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=moisture+meter&qid=1576223251&sr=8-5





dakindgrind said:


> How do you like the coco vs the peat? Bigger plants? More or less watering?


Lots more watering and nutrient consumption, about double. Higher humidities. Plants love it tho.



dakindgrind said:


> What are you using to bump up your P for finishing?


K. Potassium Sulfate and Potassium Chloride plus increasing the Armor Si a little as well. I boost the P in weeks 3 and 4 with MKP. For ripening I thought I was boosting the P more than I really was when I built the calculator and did the math like I should have long ago.



Disregard weeks 11 and 12.


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## Renfro (Dec 15, 2019)

So, a few things I learned this round:

1) Coco is one thirsty bitch. Having to water every 4 - 6 hours for 20 days ish on some strains during peak drink. Could barely keep up on RO filtration.

2) Warm the water up! When running an RO filter it takes time to fill my drums. When the plants are drinking so fast I need to mix nutes and use them before the water has any time to warm up. Cold roots = slow growth so I chucked an aquarium heater in to bring it up to around 78-80F and wow what a difference. I am not running DWC and the roots aren't drowning the whole time so I am not concerned and haven't had issues with root rot. I will be doing this from now on. I used to be stuck in the DWC mentality and thinking I needed to keep the nutes cooler than warmer. If asked now would I want my coco water at 70F or 80F I would take 80F all day long.

3) Monitor the pH of the media! This was key. Feed a plant and track the pH between that and the next feed. I noticed my plants were drifting down between feeds. Usually around 0.4 - 0.6 was my drift. Watering at a pH thats on the high side of the goldilocks zone allows the pH to drift through the entire zone. If I start in the middle then I end up below the zone. By doing this you get superior uptake of all nutrients. I am also able to detect plants that are out of range and through adjustive feeds bring them inline and get immediate results because the adjustive feed will swing through the goldilocks zone. This has led to the discovery that out of whack soil / coco pH has been the problem when I get a plant that is all fucked up despite feeding at the proper pH. Not all plants will be the same so check them all. Some will think this is dumb but I will be doing this from now on.  I noticed that most say 40 - 50% of the swing happens in the first third of the time after the watering. Another reason not to water in the middle of the zone since you will spend more time outside (below in my case) than inside.

Never stop learning!


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## Renfro (Dec 15, 2019)

I also learned that my grow / plants / coco likes a pH at 6.3 - 6.8. IKR? But thats what the plants told me. Feeding at 6.8 and letting the plant drift down to around 6.3 is what I did with excellent results.


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## Keesje (Dec 16, 2019)

Renfro said:


> 1) Coco is one thirsty bitch. Having to water every 4 - 6 hours for 20 days ish on some strains during peak drink. Could barely keep up on RO filtration.


It is evaporation that makes root 'drink' water.
How do you think that Coco makes them drink more?
Or is it perhaps that more water evaporates straight from the pot? (I guess not, because once it is under the surface, how would that work?)


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## Renfro (Dec 16, 2019)

Keesje said:


> It is evaporation that makes root 'drink' water.
> How do you think that Coco makes them drink more?
> Or is it perhaps that more water evaporates straight from the pot? (I guess not, because once it is under the surface, how would that work?)


The plants are taking it up and transpiring it. They are growing more like in hydro.


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## Renfro (Dec 16, 2019)

If you think the water temp had to do with evaporation thats not an issue, I just started warming the water, went thru most of this run with cold h2o and mega drink.


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## Keesje (Dec 16, 2019)

I am just curious why the plants would drink more in coco.
I heard before that in hydro they drank more.
I thought it had to with the water being easily available, or something like that.
But if they drink even more in coco, it must be something else.
Interesting.

I guess you still did not harvest yet on coco.
But I am curious if the yield will be higher.


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## Renfro (Dec 16, 2019)

Definitely higher. Harvest around the 27th.

I think they drink more because it's more available compared to in soil. But thats just guessing. Somethings optimized, perhaps me tracking the pH?


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## kmog33 (Dec 16, 2019)

Coco just drains and dehydrates extremely well. Most media absorbs more water and holds onto it longer. Additionally roots have an easier time growing in less restrictive media so in lots of situations you’ll have a bigger roots mass than a lot of systems, faster, increasing water uptake rate. 

so I assume the water consumption is a combination of evaporation, better drainage, and the plants Water uptake.


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## Renfro (Dec 16, 2019)

Almost tempted to do an experiment adding a tiny percentage of vermiculite to some coco just to hold a little more h2o.


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## Keesje (Dec 17, 2019)

Renfro said:


> I think they drink more because it's more available compared to in soil. But thats just guessing. Somethings optimized, perhaps me tracking the pH?


Did you ever try hydro?
If so, is the waterconsumption with coco higher, lower or the same?


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## myke (Dec 17, 2019)

My 2 coco plants drink more then my 2 rdwc plants,lids on the hydro ones helps reduce it.


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## Renfro (Dec 17, 2019)

Keesje said:


> Did you ever try hydro?
> If so, is the waterconsumption with coco higher, lower or the same?


I have done many types of hydro for years. Flood and Drain and DWC to be the ones I did longest. I have to say the water consumption is at that same level. When I grew in missouri with flood and drain I noticed about 5 gallons of water per light per day but that included tray evaporation.


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## Grassizgreener (Dec 20, 2019)

Damn.. came here looking for a journal of some1 pulling 3+ p’s on 700w of leds Dwc in a 5x5 tent I believe and stumble into trees...

Had to make an account just to view your pics man.. good sh!t. Shoots out to fellow Co growing trees with these 8’ basement ceilings we have


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## Hust17 (Dec 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Almost tempted to do an experiment adding a tiny percentage of vermiculite to some coco just to hold a little more h2o.







__





Mother Earth Perlite/Coco VS Mother Earth Coco (Comparison + Pics)


So I've noticed that straight coco regardless of brand tends to always win against perlite coco blends or other "coco" blends. I did a side by side comparison with #5 pots and Mother Earth 70/30 Coco vs Mother Earth Coco and the results are obvious. Don't add Perlite to your coco. I was...



www.rollitup.org





Sorry I didn’t read everything, maybe just upsize your pots one more time?


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## Grassizgreener (Dec 20, 2019)

Hust17 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea that would be the case, but in coco u actually want to multi feed rather than feed once a day... I wouldn’t tell ren how to grow cause he can grow! But since u got a higher plant count, look into smart pots. 1-3gal pots will grow u 1-2p’s plants, multi feed on a drip.. way to go


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## Hust17 (Dec 20, 2019)

Grassizgreener said:


> Yea that would be the case, but in coco u actually want to multi feed rather than feed once a day... I wouldn’t tell ren how to grow cause he can grow! But since u got a higher plant count, look into smart pots. 1-3gal pots will grow u 1-2p’s plants, multi feed on a drip.. way to go


Ya I feel that. I end up feeding once a day by the end. Definitely wouldn’t tell anyone how to grow just trying to help


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## onegreenthumb (Dec 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> So, a few things I learned this round:
> 
> 1) Coco is one thirsty bitch. Having to water every 4 - 6 hours for 20 days ish on some strains during peak drink. Could barely keep up on RO filtration.
> 
> ...


This is very interesting my res can get quite cold during winter I drift my ph as well while I feed start at 6 and let drift down to 5.7 how long have you been using the warm water with good results? I like how your experimenting good job and do they seem to be using more water as well from the warmth...i would imagine


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## westcoast420 (Dec 20, 2019)

Sweet run, trim jail awaits! lol. Interested to hear your thoughts on the warmer water tho? Being do levels drop as the water is warmed. I have to put heaters in the Rez this time of year but have the temps capped at 70. And yes coco will go through lots of water, it has excellent aeration and drainage capabilities allowing for almost hydro like growth rates when dialed in and multi fed per day.


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## Renfro (Dec 20, 2019)

westcoast420 said:


> Sweet run, trim jail awaits! lol. Interested to hear your thoughts on the warmer water tho? Being do levels drop as the water is warmed. I have to put heaters in the Rez this time of year but have the temps capped at 70. And yes coco will go through lots of water, it has excellent aeration and drainage capabilities allowing for almost hydro like growth rates when dialed in and multi fed per day.


Not concerned with DO levels as the roots aren't constantly drowning (wet dry cycles on the coco). If I was keeping them drowned it wouldn't be good at all. Like I said, I didn't start warming the water until the later part of the run. I darn near killed a few plants early on the run by watering them all at the same frequency but those ones were staying drowned. I learned that I need to treat the coco like soil just not let it get as dry, but it still needs to dry some to get oxygen, that was with cold h2o.


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## Keesje (Dec 20, 2019)

People make too much of a fuzz about less DO in warmer water. It is not that people in hydro are using water of 88 degrees. The differences between 70 and 75 are negligible. Perhaps 0.5 mg per liter. And just the slightest agitation and the absorbed DO is here again!


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## Renfro (Dec 20, 2019)

Dissolved oxygen is only required if the roots are constantly submerged, ie: dwc. When they get oxygen directly it's way better. Like flood and drain for example, you rarely see root rot in that type setup and then it's probably rockwool thats flooded too often.


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## Grassizgreener (Dec 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> Dissolved oxygen is only required if the roots are constantly submerged, ie: dwc. When they get oxygen directly it's way better. Like flood and drain for example, you rarely see root rot in that type setup and then it's probably rockwool thats flooded too often.


Funny you say that, my buddy runs the wool, n we talking shrub style grow, he top feeds the wool for 3 hours when they wake and same again 4 hours before lights out...
He tells me key is once roots is develop thru the wool u can them watered for how ever long n it b like dwc type always oxygenating the roots, growth is crazy..
My setup is like his but in coco.. root bound 2gal smarties multi feed 6 times on slow drippers.

I feel since coco is a hydro media u should treat it like hydro to get the best out of it, not saying ur style not working, but with the new plant count I think it would benefit u more treating it like hydro.

Good ish in here brotha


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## Grassizgreener (Dec 20, 2019)

Ps u should try jacks again but with the 3/2/.5 mpk, no epsom salt, out water have enough mag in it. Try it without ro... game changer brotha


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## Renfro (Dec 20, 2019)

I wont run without RO here, the water varies by the time of year since we are on a reservoir. Sometimes the magnesium spikes and you get yellow stains on the sink drains. Sometimes it spikes in iron and the calcium is always pretty high. Using an RO filter gives me a clean slate thats consistent.


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## Keesje (Dec 20, 2019)

If RO wouldn't be so expensive, I think more professional growers would use it.
The big growers solve this by analyzing their water first. Then they know for every element how much of it is in water.
Then they add every single element to the level they want it to be.
If they could afford RO water they would just have to throw in 1 bag and check pH and EC > less work.


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## Keesje (Dec 20, 2019)

Grassizgreener said:


> I feel since coco is a hydro media u should treat it like hydro to get the best out of it, not saying ur style not working, but with the new plant count I think it would benefit u more treating it like hydro.


What do you mean by treating it like hydro?


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## Renfro (Dec 20, 2019)

Keesje said:


> The big growers solve this by analyzing their water first. Then they know for every element how much of it is in water.


And thats great if the water isn't always changing like mine does. I would be doing that myself if I could. RO filtration wastes a lot of water and the filters aren't free lol. Plus having to change out the filters sucks.


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## Keesje (Dec 20, 2019)

Where I live the water is mostly the same, but the greenhouse growers still measure it every time they add nutrients. 
When they do a kind of E&F, they analyze the return water and just fill up the single element, until every single element has the same level they are looking for.
Also the growers on hydro (with the big reservoirs and the floating vegetables) never change their water. They have continuous analyzing and add single elements. 
It is expensive, but not as expensive as you might think. You also save a lot on nutrients as well.


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## Renfro (Dec 20, 2019)

Keesje said:


> They have continuous analyzing and add single elements.


What sorta equipment do they use for that? I would be interested.


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## Grassizgreener (Dec 20, 2019)

Keesje said:


> What do you mean by treating it like hydro?


Continuous watering, multi feed, f&d.. etc

Hm not sure what area you are but my ec is always at .2 n mag n cal levels during winter n summers don’t change, spring minor spike in cal but it doesn’t effect the recipe where plants are hurting, now if you are in commerce city.. That’s a whole another issue in itself


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## Keesje (Dec 20, 2019)

Renfro said:


> What sorta equipment do they use for that? I would be interested.


Looking for it, but can't find the info right now. Keep you posted.
They call it Ion Selective Measuring (Hope I wrote it well)


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## Maineconnect (Dec 22, 2019)

Renfro great job man!
I’m just getting started in peat moss can you tell me how managing my ec would differ from coco coir? Apart from a less heavy and frequent watering hand....how do I feed efficienctly in peat ? Feed feed flush? Flush with CaMg?


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## Renfro (Dec 22, 2019)

Maineconnect said:


> Renfro great job man!
> I’m just getting started in peat moss can you tell me how managing my ec would differ from coco coir? Apart from a less heavy and frequent watering hand....how do I feed efficienctly in peat ? Feed feed flush? Flush with CaMg?


When growing in peat based mixes I just feed every watering, get good runoff to prevent salt buildups. I feed at 1000 - 1100 PPM, pH at 6.5 - 6.8. Allow the medium to dry between waterings so as to prevent root rot. Thats how I handled promix, sunshine and berger peat based mixes. Knowing the pH of the medium is key, I have had issues with batches that had wack pH. It's always a good idea to test the pH of the bales before purchasing them.


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## Maineconnect (Dec 22, 2019)

so Treat it like coco coir in regards to feeding treat it like soil in regards to ph manage my inflow ec/outflow ec that same way I would coco just allowing thorough wet—>dry cycle?


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## Maineconnect (Dec 22, 2019)

Hopefully I’m on the right track. I’m at a new facility and they have not logged any ec information for 2 years


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## Maineconnect (Dec 22, 2019)

Happy holidays thank you for the help!


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## Renfro (Dec 23, 2019)




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## Renfro (Dec 23, 2019)

Maineconnect said:


> I would coco just allowing thorough wet—>dry cycle?


wet—>not so wet cycle. We don't want the coco to get as dry as we would want soil. So halfway dry. Just not saturated all the time. If I had to error on an occasional watering I would error on the early/wet side. Over watering is a persistent condition, so not letting the medium dry enough before one watering isn't likely to cause issues UNLESS the wet—>not so wet cycle already takes a long time. In that case, essentially doubling the length of time the roots spend in a saturated condition could be detrimental, resulting in a case of pythium.


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## Maineconnect (Dec 23, 2019)

Interesting. If you care to explain what you mean 
Unless wet dry cycle takes a long time? I’m all ears. Just a little confused by what you mean. Sounds like solid info I’d really like to understand


Renfro said:


> wet—>not so wet cycle. We don't want the coco to get as dry as we would want soil. So halfway dry. Just not saturated all the time. If I had to error on an occasional watering I would error on the early/wet side. Over watering is a persistent condition, so not letting the medium dry enough before one watering isn't likely to cause issues UNLESS the wet—>not so wet cycle already takes a long time. In that case, essentially doubling the length of time the roots spend in a saturated condition could be detrimental, resulting in a case of pythium.


by unless


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## Renfro (Dec 23, 2019)

If the plant is small and the pot is large for example then it will take a long time for the coco to dry enough that it would no longer be considered saturated or too wet. Probably pushing the limits if we don't allow it to dry enough to get some oxygen time at the roots. Lets say we have a plant that takes 3 days to get to where it's halfway dry. If we only wait 2 days and water then it's going to be lacking oxygen for 5 days straight. It's those breaks when oxygen gets in there that prevent the root rot.

The roots need to get oxygen at some point to prevent the growth of anaerobic bacteria (pythium / root rot). When the coco is saturated there are no air pockets to speak of so we are entirely dependent on the limited supply of dissolved oxygen in the water that was fed. The only way deep water culture works is the oxygenation of the nutrient solution. I hope that helps, I basically explained it in every way I can think of lol


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## Bubbas.dad (Jan 3, 2020)

Inquiring minds want to know - did you hit your target for yield?

Great thread, really enjoy it.


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## Renfro (Jan 3, 2020)

had a run in this journal that was 54+, still chopping this one, its at least that much, probably 60 ish but we are freezing all but the best nugs for pressing this round. tired of trimming. freeze drier, bud washer, ice machine, press, lots of stuff on the way. so drying and trimming room is getting converted to solventless extraction room.


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## Hust17 (Jan 3, 2020)

Renfro said:


> had a run in this journal that was 54+, still chopping this one, its at least that much, probably 60 ish but we are freezing all but the best nugs for pressing this round. tired of trimming. freeze drier, bud washer, ice machine, press, lots of stuff on the way. so drying and trimming room is getting converted to solventless extraction room.


I know I’m newish here but I love you Renfro, please stay forever <3


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## madvillian420 (Jan 4, 2020)

Renfro this journal is my bible, thanks for all your teachings man.


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## hybridway2 (Jan 17, 2020)

Yes, nice work & hope you keep sharing.. You have the rooms i once almost had. Lol!
Will you be going with an LED room anytime soon? If you go white cobs o highky recommend adding some IR. 
Hoping you do, interested to see how transition goes.


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## killakanna (Feb 20, 2020)

BigHornBuds said:


> Nope not here , 100$ oz of high test .
> Outdoor is half that.
> People are going to need to be doin 1.5 - 2 gpw to keep up, or it’s not worth the time.


Where is here?! Jesus. $100 an ounce?


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## ttystikk (Feb 21, 2020)

killakanna said:


> Where is here?! Jesus. $100 an ounce?


Colorado, among other places. Get ready, this is where the market is going.


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## Couch_Lock (Feb 21, 2020)

Good to see ya in here, Renfro. Still got the gg4 goin?


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## purpaterp (Feb 21, 2020)

Renfro said:


> If the plant is small and the pot is large for example then it will take a long time for the coco to dry enough that it would no longer be considered saturated or too wet. Probably pushing the limits if we don't allow it to dry enough to get some oxygen time at the roots. Lets say we have a plant that takes 3 days to get to where it's halfway dry. If we only wait 2 days and water then it's going to be lacking oxygen for 5 days straight. It's those breaks when oxygen gets in there that prevent the root rot.
> 
> The roots need to get oxygen at some point to prevent the growth of anaerobic bacteria (pythium / root rot). When the coco is saturated there are no air pockets to speak of so we are entirely dependent on the limited supply of dissolved oxygen in the water that was fed. The only way deep water culture works is the oxygenation of the nutrient solution. I hope that helps, I basically explained it in every way I can think of lol


If in properly sized containers with a 30% perlite mix I’ve heard it’s almost impossible to overwater Coco. What are you thoughts on high frequency fertigation in coco renfro?


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## Renfro (Feb 21, 2020)

purpaterp said:


> If in properly sized containers with a 30% perlite mix I’ve heard it’s almost impossible to overwater Coco. What are you thoughts on high frequency fertigation in coco renfro?


I have damn near killed plants in 10 gallon pots with coco by watering too often. So I know for a fact that you can indeed over water coco. It needs to dry some but not as much as soil.


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## Gond00s (Feb 21, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I have damn near killed plants in 10 gallon pots with coco by watering too often. So I know for a fact that you can indeed over water coco. It needs to dry some but not as much as soil.


yea did u do all coco because that's a good way to kill plants learned my lesson. just but more perlite in it I guess.


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## purpaterp (Feb 21, 2020)

Gond00s said:


> yea did u do all coco because that's a good way to kill plants learned my lesson. just but more perlite in it I guess.


I run 30% perlite right now and have run twice daily fertigations to full saturation with no issues so far.


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## Renfro (Feb 21, 2020)

purpaterp said:


> I run 30% perlite right now and have run twice daily fertigations to full saturation with no issues so far.


well don't try 3 or 4 times daily.


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## Renfro (Feb 21, 2020)

Not all strains drink the same. Had one strain that wasn't drinking as fast and the others were fine but the slow drinker got root rot from being too wet all the time since I failed to treat it separately. Plants speed up around day 20 of 12/12 and they slow down around day 50 - 55, strains vary but I find they all do this. I have had issues where I kept watering at high frequency when they tapered off. So you really need to be watering by hand and checking who needs and who doesn't. Otherwise you are making a compromise if growing multiple strains. All one strain and they will all drink the same and thats easy peasy but you still need to speed up and then taper off the watering if you wanna max things out. These are things I learned from observation in both the soiless peat based mixes and in coco. Not something you'd notice in hydro so I learned a lot when I switched from hydro.


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## Renfro (Feb 21, 2020)

You would be surprised how sudden and agressive they start guzzling around day 20 of 12/12. Say I am watering once daily on day 19. Day 20 they are dry as a bone if I wait too long, they need water at more like 16 - 18 hour interval now. I noticed with coco it goes from halfway dry to really dry in short order. A moisture meter reads top green at 2pm, then at 5pm it's middle green but on 30 more minutes it's going red. So the perfect time to water is when the moisture meter says middle green or just above. That is optimal IMO, but treating all the plants the same with auto watering just doesn't work if they are drinking at different rates. You can error on the side of over watering to a degree but you can't keep them saturated constantly. So if you have a plant that needs it's water every 36 hours, you might get away with watering it early but maybe not 12 hours early... doing that constantly ends up causing root rot. Seen it. Looked at the roots.


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## purpaterp (Feb 21, 2020)

Renfro said:


> You would be surprised how sudden and agressive they start guzzling around day 20 of 12/12. Say I am watering once daily on day 19. Day 20 they are dry as a bone if I wait too long, they need water at more like 16 - 18 hour interval now. I noticed with coco it goes from halfway dry to really dry in short order. A moisture meter reads top green at 2pm, then at 5pm it's middle green but on 30 more minutes it's going red. So the perfect time to water is when the moisture meter says middle green or just above. That is optimal IMO, but treating all the plants the same with auto watering just doesn't work if they are drinking at different rates. You can error on the side of over watering to a degree but you can't keep them saturated constantly. So if you have a plant that needs it's water every 36 hours, you might get away with watering it early but maybe not 12 hours early... doing that constantly ends up causing root rot. Seen it. Looked at the roots.


Thanks for the knowledge man! What meter do you run?


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## greg nr (Feb 21, 2020)

ttystikk said:


> Colorado, among other places. Get ready, this is where the market is going.


I've heard grow store operators crying (and rightfully so) that these prices are putting them out of business. Where growing was once a necessity if you wanted any amount of reasonably priced weed (either to use or sell), it is now uneconomical for many, so they have gone from growing to just buying.

One of the unintended consequences of legalization. I used to brew my own beer because I couldn't find styles I liked anywhere near me. Now you can buy exotic Belgium lambic's in mini marts for less than you can brew a good lager from grain. i don't brew any more.


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## ozziebud (Feb 21, 2020)

i put taps on watering lines to adjust flow to each pot if plants are at different stages i also do a qaurter pot of clay balls then top up with coco perlite mixture a the moment watering 3 times a day 20 seconds


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## Renfro (Feb 21, 2020)

greg nr said:


> I've heard grow store operators crying (and rightfully so) that these prices are putting them out of business. Where growing was once a necessity if you wanted any amount of reasonably priced weed (either to use or sell), it is now uneconomical for many, so they have gone from growing to just buying.
> 
> One of the unintended consequences of legalization. I used to brew my own beer because I couldn't find styles I liked anywhere near me. Now you can buy exotic Belgium lambic's in mini marts for less than you can brew a good lager from grain. i don't brew any more.


Now days you have to have extreme quality with very high yields if you wanna be successful in this industry. Used to be that anyone could play the game but this legalization trend is weeding out all the lesser growers. Even the top notch weed fetches so much less now that most of the lucrative profit that drove the growers is gone. I remember wholesaling pounds black market for many many years with the price locked at 5000 per pound wholesale, I couldn't grow it fast enough. My buyers were selling it at $35 a gram in a college town and tripling their money, going through 15 - 20 pounds a month. Once legalization kicked in, prices quickly went to $2400 a pound, then within another year it was at $1600 and now it's dipped closer to $1000 maybe $1300 if it's banging. So all the motivation is gone for growers only producing 1 - 1.5 # per light of even the best quality. If the quality isn't there then be lucky if you can get $500 a pound, probably just stuck with it. Used to be that you could grow 8 pounds under 4 lights and have $40k for doing it, you didn't even care about the utilities and nutrients, light bulbs and shit, now the same grow puts out $9600 gross, minus costs and it's not worth the hassle. So no longer can a mediocre grower make money. and the good growers have to be on point and the business has to be run like that, tight because the profit margins are way smaller than they used to be. There is also no motivating reason to take risk if your in an illegal state and find your market flooded with out of state weed at $2000 - $2400 a pound. Not enough profit to make it worth going to jail. So yeah, legalization is a double edged sword. I personally miss the good old days of $5000 a pound wholesale and having to keep my head low, but I never got busted and went through that shit although I knew those that did. I just stayed one step ahead and always listened to my gut, never got greedy.


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## Renfro (Feb 21, 2020)

Also used to be that you spent to setup a grow and it not only paid for itself in the first run but made a lot of profit. Now you are lucky if the first run can cover the setup costs.


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## killakanna (Feb 21, 2020)

ttystikk said:


> Not worth it.
> 
> Train your plants to remain thin enough for light to penetrate to the middle from the sides, then hang vertical lighting on both sides.
> View attachment 4271974


God that looks beautiful. All LED I’m assuming? You didn’t email me yet ;P


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## ryan s (Feb 22, 2020)

Good shit! Seems like growing your own is hardly worth it these days in Colorado. If it’s not top quality it’s a waste even if you’re growing for personal use. A recreational store a few miles away from me is going to be selling Apex’s MAC for $80/oz otd. Hard to complete with that for most growers. Looks like you know what your doing however the ticket to even get started doing what you’re doing is a doozy and one bad grow can really set you back.


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## Tiflis (Feb 22, 2020)

ryan s said:


> Good shit! Seems like growing your own is hardly worth it these days in Colorado. If it’s not top quality it’s a waste even if you’re growing for personal use. A recreational store a few miles away from me is going to be selling Apex’s MAC for $80/oz otd. Hard to complete with that for most growers. Looks like you know what your doing however the ticket to even get started doing what you’re doing is a doozy and one bad grow can really set you back.


Maybe it's different when you're local or have friends or otherwise know people. Everything I got from a dispensary when I visited Denver was drier than a mofo.


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## fragileassassin (Feb 22, 2020)

ryan s said:


> Good shit! Seems like growing your own is hardly worth it these days in Colorado. If it’s not top quality it’s a waste even if you’re growing for personal use. A recreational store a few miles away from me is going to be selling Apex’s MAC for $80/oz otd. Hard to complete with that for most growers. Looks like you know what your doing however the ticket to even get started doing what you’re doing is a doozy and one bad grow can really set you back.


If youre smoking a gram a day maybe. They keep changing laws and driving prices up. Unless you want to go chasing deals on weedmaps, its getting harder and harder to get an oz for $100 out the door even on the medical side. I have to buy too much too often to be chasing deals all around the city that often. I personally spend way less than the $100 a week id be spending at the dispensary and end up with way more.
Everything ive grown so far has been better than most of what I am able to get.


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## greg nr (Feb 22, 2020)

Tiflis said:


> Maybe it's different when you're local or have friends or otherwise know people. Everything I got from a dispensary when I visited Denver was drier than a mofo.


In another thread someone explained that the standard in a lot of states is 13% humidity for storage. Anything approaching 60% will test positive for mold if stored for a long period of time (stored bud has to be retested for mold every year apparently). So they store it dry.

Which would explain why they are selling dry bud. You may need to rehydrate it to bring it back.


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## fragileassassin (Feb 22, 2020)

Finding a smaller company that only grows their own and is constantly having different strains has proven better for me imo.
I was annoyed that I could rarely get the same thing at first, but the stuff from this place is always well cured and just right. I even got an oz of shake recently to make some edibles but it was so good I ended up smoking it lol.


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## killakanna (Feb 22, 2020)

fragileassassin said:


> Finding a smaller company that only grows their own and is constantly having different strains has proven better for me imo.
> I was annoyed that I could rarely get the same thing at first, but the stuff from this place is always well cured and just right. I even got an oz of shake recently to make some edibles but it was so good I ended up smoking it lol.


Hahaha that is the best! Shake and bake.


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## hybridway2 (Feb 22, 2020)

purpaterp said:


> I run 30% perlite right now and have run twice daily fertigations to full saturation with no issues so far.


Big plants in smaller potts probably? 
I've been liking daily x1, DTW In 5's instead of every other in 7's.


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## purpaterp (Feb 22, 2020)

hybridway2 said:


> Big plants in smaller potts probably?
> I've been liking daily x1, DTW In 5's instead of every other in 7's.


They were in solo cups they’re In two gallon bags now.


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## Renfro (Feb 22, 2020)

greg nr said:


> In another thread someone explained that the standard in a lot of states is 13% humidity for storage. Anything approaching 60% will test positive for mold if stored for a long period of time (stored bud has to be retested for mold every year apparently). So they store it dry.
> 
> Which would explain why they are selling dry bud. You may need to rehydrate it to bring it back.


Who wants to buy water anyways. Just put a wrung out wet paper towel in with your weed and within a few hours with will be just right.


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## Renfro (Feb 22, 2020)

My pounds are so dry after trimming them and I don't want them to turn to dust in the turkey bags so I remositen the pounds and they gain about 20 grams in h2o weight. Add Integra Boost packs then they are ready to go. I had too many ppl bitch about them turning to dust, and I asked do you wanna buy water? Plus water speeds the oxidation of your THC so storing the weed super dry not only prevents mold but it slows degradation greatly, doesn't stop terpene evaporation though.

It's a perishable product for sure. Long term storage is best done in the form of frozen concentrates like rosin and BHO.


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## hybridway2 (Feb 22, 2020)

purpaterp said:


> They were in solo cups they’re In two gallon bags now.


That explains it. Same concept i guess


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## ryan s (Feb 23, 2020)

fragileassassin said:


> If youre smoking a gram a day maybe. They keep changing laws and driving prices up. Unless you want to go chasing deals on weedmaps, its getting harder and harder to get an oz for $100 out the door even on the medical side. I have to buy too much too often to be chasing deals all around the city that often. I personally spend way less than the $100 a week id be spending at the dispensary and end up with way more.
> Everything ive grown so far has been better than most of what I am able to get.


I am smoking less than a gram a day actually. Lol— work and school keep me somewhat sober. You’re right though most ounces are still around $200. And speak for yourself, my last 4 or 5 grows have been shit compared to that MAC. I’m hoping my Crescendo turns out fire this run though. I changed a lot up.


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## fragileassassin (Feb 23, 2020)

ryan s said:


> I am smoking less than a gram a day actually. Lol— work and school keep me somewhat sober. You’re right though most ounces are still around $200. And speak for yourself, my last 4 or 5 grows have been shit compared to that MAC. I’m hoping my Crescendo turns out fire this run though. I changed a lot up.


Youll get there! When you get that first crop of fire that knocks you on your ass, its such a good feeling.
Im medically retired and this is my meds. Im usually around an oz a week when I have a good supply. When I let the stash go dry I have to cut way back because I cant afford to spend $400 a month at the dispensary on top of m grow costs.


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## diggs99 (Feb 23, 2020)

Renfro said:


> well don't try 3 or 4 times daily.


Yep, i can attest to this. Ran into this issue myself, if you remember.


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## Benframpton302 (Feb 24, 2020)

Renfro said:


> My pounds are so dry after trimming them and I don't want them to turn to dust in the turkey bags so I remositen the pounds and they gain about 20 grams in h2o weight. Add Integra Boost packs then they are ready to go. I had too many ppl bitch about them turning to dust, and I asked do you wanna buy water? Plus water speeds the oxidation of your THC so storing the weed super dry not only prevents mold but it slows degradation greatly, doesn't stop terpene evaporation though.
> 
> It's a perishable product for sure. Long term storage is best done in the form of frozen concentrates like rosin and BHO.


If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't have that problem! Drying & curing is an art that you obviously never learned if your buds turn to dust. You should be able to squeeze your buds & get some bounce back, not turn to dust. Your over drying your buds & then adding water to them? LMFAO


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## Benframpton302 (Feb 24, 2020)

Renfro said:


> My pounds are so dry after trimming them and I don't want them to turn to dust in the turkey bags so I remositen the pounds and they gain about 20 grams in h2o weight. Add Integra Boost packs then they are ready to go. I had too many ppl bitch about them turning to dust, and I asked do you wanna buy water? Plus water speeds the oxidation of your THC so storing the weed super dry not only prevents mold but it slows degradation greatly, doesn't stop terpene evaporation though.
> 
> It's a perishable product for sure. Long term storage is best done in the form of frozen concentrates like rosin and BHO.


It's called curing, not long term storage & I have cured bud for over 2 years & pulled it out & it was just like the day I put it in except more potent. You are giving bad info & if you store your bud at 62% RH, 60%F, in a sealed jar in a dark place, it will preserve it for years. It's science brother. You have a lot to learn !! Please stop spreading misinformation online, it's people like you that are messing the industry up & costing innocent new growers money.


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## Renfro (Feb 24, 2020)

Benframpton302 said:


> I have cured bud for over 2 years & pulled it out


Iv'e honestly never had bud for more than a minute. On my scale I chop it, dry it, trim it, trimming super dry makes it faster because the tiny sugar leaves just knock off with the tip of the scissors, pack it up, bring it to 62% for people like you and poof it's gone.


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## Benframpton302 (Feb 24, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Iv'e honestly never had bud for more than a minute. On my scale I chop it, dry it, trim it, trimming super dry makes it faster because the tiny sugar leaves just knock off with the tip of the scissors, pack it up, bring it to 62% for people like you and poof it's gone.


Thanks, you just showed your lack of knowledge. And I would normally share some helpful stuff but your the type of person we don't want in the cannabis community so I'll let you figure it out on your own & let the rest of the people on here realize that your a fraud.


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## Keesje (Feb 24, 2020)

Benframpton302 said:


> but your the type of person we don't want in the cannabis community so I'll let you figure it out on your own & let the rest of the people on here realize that your a fraud.


Speak for yourself, please.
I (and many others) am part of the cannabis community, and I am happy that Renfro is on this forum.
If he uses a different system then you do, it does not mean that he is a fraud.
Are you calling everybody a fraud who disagrees with you?


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## purpaterp (Feb 24, 2020)

Benframpton302 said:


> Thanks, you just showed your lack of knowledge. And I would normally share some helpful stuff but your the type of person we don't want in the cannabis community so I'll let you figure it out on your own & let the rest of the people on here realize that your a fraud.


I’m here because I’ve seen Renfros plants and talked to him a lot before. He has a ton of knowledge to drop and i don’t care what you say you have to respect the plants. I’m not here for renfro to give some game about long term storage that’s not what this is. We definitely need people like him not so much people like you looking for confrontation.


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## thenasty1 (Feb 24, 2020)

Benframpton302 said:


> Thanks, you just showed your lack of knowledge. And I would normally share some helpful stuff but your the type of person we don't want in the cannabis community so I'll let you figure it out on your own & let the rest of the people on here realize that your a fraud.


----------



## onegreenthumb (Feb 24, 2020)

Benframpton302 said:


> Thanks, you just showed your lack of knowledge. And I would normally share some helpful stuff but your the type of person we don't want in the cannabis community so I'll let you figure it out on your own & let the rest of the people on here realize that your a fraud.


This cant be real right??? Is Renfro punking us??


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## ozziebud (Feb 24, 2020)

Benframpton302 said:


> Thanks, you just showed your lack of knowledge. And I would normally share some helpful stuff but your the type of person we don't want in the cannabis community so I'll let you figure it out on your own & let the rest of the people on here realize that your a fraud.


for starters who is we speak for ya self i think ya a bit jealous of renfro and his grows and just talking shit typical keybaord warrior your what the cannabis world dont need


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## Bobby Long Buds (Feb 24, 2020)

Benframpton302 said:


> Thanks, you just showed your lack of knowledge. And I would normally share some helpful stuff but your the type of person we don't want in the cannabis community so I'll let you figure it out on your own & let the rest of the people on here realize that your a fraud.


Haha a fraud. Nothing but sound information outta the guy imo.


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## Go go n chill (Feb 25, 2020)

fragileassassin said:


> Finding a smaller company that only grows their own and is constantly having different strains has proven better for me imo.
> I was annoyed that I could rarely get the same thing at first, but the stuff from this place is always well cured and just right. I even got an oz of shake recently to make some edibles but it was so good I ended up smoking it lol.


We don’t have dispensaries here where I live but I can definitely see a problem with keeping cannabis fresh and or mold free. I only grow what I can use pretty quickly, freshness is key for me and my tribe


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## Gond00s (Mar 11, 2020)

damn been dead in here renfro got any update on the garden its been a while


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## killakanna (Mar 11, 2020)

Bobby Long Buds said:


> Haha a fraud. Nothing but sound information outta the guy imo.


Dudes been growin since I was in diapers... should def respect our elder statesmen around here. Probably knows more than I’ve forgotten and I’ve gotten close to 2 g’s a watt years before it was the cool thing to do.


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## diggs99 (Mar 11, 2020)

killakanna said:


> Dudes been growin since I was in diapers... should def respect our elder statesmen around here. *Probably knows more than I’ve forgotten* and I’ve gotten close to 2 g’s a watt years before it was the cool thing to do.


i would def hope this to be true, for both you and him lol

he has def forgotten more than most know tho


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## Renfro (Mar 11, 2020)

I haven't been growing for a few months, took some time off to handle other projects.

Didn't even notice this development. lol Fraud... Well I have nothing to prove, I know what I am doing and it's not bullshitting.


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## diggs99 (Mar 11, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I haven't been growing for a few months, took some time off to handle other projects.
> 
> Didn't even notice this development. lol Fraud... Well I have nothing to prove, I know what I am doing and it's not bullshitting.


thats cause it wasnt a developement bro, aint nobody around here taking that shit seriously lol


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## Gond00s (Mar 11, 2020)

when u think u be growing again my guy I liked the diary


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## Renfro (Mar 11, 2020)

Gond00s said:


> when u think u be growing again my guy I liked the diary


You will see it here first. lol I have some babies in veg so it won't be too long.


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## Gond00s (Mar 11, 2020)

Cant wait to see them been a while since ive seen a update from u <3


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## Hydrotech364 (Mar 17, 2020)

Renfro said:


> These started 12/12 on 12/11/18 so they are about 23 days into flowering. Another 47ish to go.
> 
> Strain is Gorilla Glue #4. With this strain I manage 42 to 48 pounds.
> 
> ...




Think Ya May be embellishing just a little mr renfro????


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## Keesje (Mar 17, 2020)

Hydrotech364 said:


> Think Ya May be embellishing just a little mr renfro????


Like what for example?


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## Go go n chill (Mar 17, 2020)

40+ pounds out of 12 plants I want in on that action which strain is it? I’ll give it a go


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## OSBuds (Mar 17, 2020)

Go go n chill said:


> which strain is it
> [/QUOTStrain is ]


 Gorilla Glue #4 Monster Cropped


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## Thundercat (Mar 17, 2020)

Hydrotech364 said:


> Think Ya May be embellishing just a little mr renfro????


Dude he shows everything he does in this thread. Did you read the whole thing? While what he is doing is impressive, it’s makes perfect sense. He is growing huge plants with lots of wattage and climate control. No reason he needs to embellish anything when he gets results.


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## Go go n chill (Mar 17, 2020)

OSBuds said:


> Gorilla Glue #4 Monster Cropped


I have monster cropped before by accident and I got over 3 pounds out of a 3 x 2 Closet. 
Veg to flower and back to vegetate and then back to flower


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## Go go n chill (Mar 17, 2020)

I’m not gonna lie when I saw 12 plants 40+ pounds I disregarded the post but if he’s monster cropping that changes things


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## Hydrotech364 (Mar 17, 2020)

Thundercat said:


> Dude he shows everything he does in this thread. Did you read the whole thing? While what he is doing is impressive, it’s makes perfect sense. He is growing huge plants with lots of wattage and climate control. No reason he needs to embellish anything when he gets results.



Calm your little tit's...


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## Go go n chill (Mar 17, 2020)

Hydrotech364 said:


> Calm your little tit's...


Lol
He said little tits


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## Renfro (Mar 17, 2020)

Go go n chill said:


> I’m not gonna lie when I saw 12 plants 40+ pounds I disregarded the post but if he’s monster cropping that changes things


Haven't monster cropped since I started running all these different strains. Just top them a few times, let them grow, then super crop them out under the trellis and let them pop all those nodes vertically before flip.


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## Renfro (Mar 20, 2020)

So I got a package in the mail from a friend down under. Teknik sent me some of his new LED's to play with. They are called "Buddies" and they are pretty freaking sweet.

You can put them right up against the plants and they work great in many situations such as side lighting in confined spaces like tents. They draw 0.72 watts each, run at 24 VDC and can be powered by any 24 volt LED driver out there, doesn't matter if it's constant current or constant voltage. 24 volt drivers are the most common ones out there and can be had cheap. They have a super wide spread allowing them to be places really close to the plant and are not completely water proof but they are "IP65 light which means water can be sprayed on them from any angle without damage".



Right now there are 2 spectrum available, a red and a 4000k 95 CRI white. They come on strings of 20 LED's and have adhesive tape on the backs. They don't make any heat to worry about. I think I am going to place some back to back and string them on the inside of a tree like Christmas lights. Get some light in areas that don't get any from my other lighting.


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## Thundercat (Mar 20, 2020)

I’ve been waiting for you to slide some leds inside your trees for core penetration!


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## Renfro (Mar 29, 2020)

So Teknik said any 24v driver will work, doesn't matter what type so I found this to power 4 strings of buddies.



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N6I77W3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



So $10 and we will see how it works. It's as basic as basic gets wiring these up, 4 strings in parallel.


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## GC_Mospeada (Mar 30, 2020)

Hey man, I'm a yield grower myself and have been looking for a better metric than grams per watt or grams per plant. I assume you run a perpetual grow. What would your grams per week per plant be? I think this metric would be more accurate in determining what true output is like.


----------



## Teag (Mar 30, 2020)

Renfro said:


> So Teknik said any 24v driver will work, doesn't matter what type so I found this to power 4 strings of buddies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm no expert but I don't think you will be getting the .72 watts with that driver. 

4 strings with 20(?) LED's = 57.6 watts

Your driver says it has a max output of 48w. Not that it really matters but it is a 17% decrease in watts to the LED's (I think).


----------



## Renfro (Mar 30, 2020)

Teag said:


> I'm no expert but I don't think you will be getting the .72 watts with that driver.
> 
> 4 strings with 20(?) LED's = 57.6 watts
> 
> Your driver says it has a max output of 48w. Not that it really matters but it is a 17% decrease in watts to the LED's (I think).


I picked the 3 amp version so it's good for 72 watts.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 30, 2020)

Teag said:


> I'm no expert but I don't think you will be getting the .72 watts with that driver.
> 
> 4 strings with 20(?) LED's = 57.6 watts
> 
> Your driver says it has a max output of 48w. Not that it really matters but it is a 17% decrease in watts to the LED's (I think).


I sorta wonder if they are all actually the same 4a unit with different labels. Would be interesting to tear a few open and see if the components are actually different.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 30, 2020)

I figure I'll hang the strings as the plants finish their stretch, when they get a defoliation treatment and we can see where they will be the most effective.

Got flowering room B cleaned up after it being empty so far this year, has some cob webs and dust lol. I really wish I had spent the cash to epoxy coat those floors, they look terrible after 8 years of growing in there! They were 2X scrubbed with physan 20 solution so they are "clean".



I've six mimosa plants in the veg room that I plan to move to flowering room B tomorrow. I will do the usual routine of pressing them under the trellis and spreading them out sideways, easing up the light intensity, temperature and CO2 levels while they veg into the trellis.

We will see how beefy we can get six mimosa plants to be in the 10 gallon buckets. These are potted in Berger BM6. The pH is fighting me a little trying to drop, seems like they have perhaps changed peat suppliers? Anyways it's nice to have the soil pH numbers so I can address issues before the plants even show signs. I have been feeding them with a high pH, they are happy and aren't showing any signs of deficiency and the soil is gradually working it's way up. I had put these cuttings in the 6 inch square pots, fought the pH for a while, transplanted into the 10 gallon and having to fight the pH again. I'll probably go back to my old way, just pot the clones directly into 10 gallon, never had a problem when doing that. These were vegged under the COB LED and I must say I am very pleased with them. They were cut on 1/29. I have another batch of 6 mimosa cuttings vegging, currently in the small pots, for the other flowering room. They are staggered about a month behind these.



I dunno what else really so I will close by saying that I hope everyone is safe and healthy with all this Corona virus stuff going down. I gotta go to the grow store tomorrow, at least they are still open as are the dispensaries lol. You can bet I will be practicing social distancing. Gonna grab and go lol. Be safe y'all!


----------



## Thundercat (Mar 30, 2020)

Nice to see you filling stuff back up homie! Stay safe and healthy.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 30, 2020)

So for anyone that is unable to find isopropyl alcohol at the stores, check your grow store. Mine had lots of 5 gallon buckets of 99.9% IPA for $60.


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## Bignutes (Mar 30, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Haven't monster cropped since I started running all these different strains. Just top them a few times, let them grow, then super crop them out under the trellis and let them pop all those nodes vertically before flip.


About how high on avg for a typical indica or hybrid would you let them grow vertical before flip?


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## Renfro (Mar 30, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> About how high on avg for a typical indica or hybrid would you let them grow vertical before flip?


Well first it's width, I take vertical growth from when they are in the veg room and press that under the trellis, spreading a plant out sideways. Once I fill the trellis out sideways I get them to about 4 feet off the floor and flip. They end up well above the 5 foot trellis rig, around 6 - 6.5 feet.


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## Herb & Suds (Mar 30, 2020)

I always thought it was "girth"
But I bow to you
Nothing but trees 


Renfro said:


> Well first it's width, I take vertical growth from when they are in the veg room and press that under the trellis, spreading a plant out sideways. Once I fill the trellis out sideways I get them to about 4 feet off the floor and flip. They end up well above the 5 foot trellis rig, around 6 - 6.5 feet.


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## Herb & Suds (Mar 30, 2020)

Renfro said:


> So for anyone that is unable to find isopropyl alcohol at the stores, check your grow store. Mine had lots of 5 gallon buckets of 99.9% IPA for $60.


I'm using ever clear ...tough times


----------



## Renfro (Mar 30, 2020)

Herb & Suds said:


> I always thought it was "girth"


Only reason to side light is if you have taller plants. Thats where the boost in yield is, getting those side yields. So I want them big in all ways lol.


----------



## Renfro (Mar 31, 2020)

Now if I can get the insides of the plant to produce with strings of buddies then we really have something. Have side canopy and INside canopy ?? Defoliate the fan leaves down in there of course to let those nodes get light and see what happens. We will have 5 other plants to compare it to if I use all four strings in one plant. We will see how that plays out, I think that would be doable.

One thing about the mimosa strain is she will make good nugs wherever she gets light. She is not a strain that likes super intense light and will be the first to show signs of the tips bleaching if the light gets above 1000 umols on my meter. Done well she makes big frosty nugs with some purps.


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## Renfro (Mar 31, 2020)

Just rolled these in. Gonna fix up the end lights (they make up the extra 6 hours schedule for veg right now) then press them under the trellis.


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## killakanna (Apr 1, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Just rolled these in. Gonna fix up the end lights (they make up the extra 6 hours schedule for veg right now) then press them under the trellis.
> 
> View attachment 4519905View attachment 4519910


Those are only 10 gallon? Look like 20's :O!

Can't wait to see how much this brings, so interesting to watch you continually adjust and improve your system.


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## Renfro (Apr 1, 2020)

killakanna said:


> Those are only 10 gallon? Look like 20's :O!
> 
> Can't wait to see how much this brings, so interesting to watch you continually adjust and improve your system.


10 gallon, two buckets stacked. The plants were defoliated pretty hard when I moved them in.

The room looks so empty and bright but give it a little time lol.


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## Renfro (Apr 2, 2020)

I was looking around on the computer and some things popped up in the ads (no not pornhub lmao) and got me thinking...





__





Nutrient Analysis Photometer - HI83325


The Hanna Instruments HI83325 is a compact, multiparameter photometer with digital pH electrode input for use in plant nutrient analysis.



www.hannainst.com









__





Calcium and Magnesium Portable Photometer - HI96752


The HI96752 portable photometer uses an adaptation of the oxalate method for calcium and an adaptation of the calmagite method for magnesium measurement.



www.hannainst.com





Got me thinking how cool these tools and others like them (I didn't look long) would be especially for those running large recirculating hydro systems. I know the pros do this in their commercial gardens allowing them to simply add back what element/s are lacking instead of dumping all the time.

So you get a solid analysis on what the plants like for feed at any point in their cycle, make that your baseline elemental PPM's. You can test the nutrients regularly and see what elements are being consumed and at what rates, then you can address the shortages without adding excess in other areas.

You can also tune your feed to what the plant is really pulling out of the nutrient solution.

You could chart the elemental consumption over time and if you run into a condition that is favorable you can see exactly what it was that changed.

This is something I will have to put on my wish list and play with when I have more time.


----------



## Thundercat (Apr 2, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I was looking around on the computer and some things popped up in the ads (no not pornhub lmao) and got me thinking...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I’ve wanted to do that for years, but only recently found out about the tech. I don’t know how long it’s actually been out. It would be great to Set up a very precise almost automated system for perfectly dialing in a plants needs.


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## Renfro (Apr 2, 2020)

Thundercat said:


> Yeah I’ve wanted to do that for years, but only recently found out about the tech. I don’t know how long it’s actually been out. It would be great to Set up a very precise almost automated system for perfectly dialing in a plants needs.


I wish the cuvettes weren't so costly, wonder if they can be reused since they are glass. The reagents are also costly. Looking at the options, it seems like it can test for all the elements we would want to track, including even dissolved oxygen, chlorine. Really would eliminate any guess work. I am considering that with this I could use my tap water since it's around 180 PPM, probably mostly calcium and magnesium. If I can quantify exactly how much is there and only add whats required to get it where I want then I can ditch the RO filter and save some hassle there (I hate changing the filters).


----------



## Bignutes (Apr 2, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I wish the cuvettes weren't so costly, wonder if they can be reused since they are glass. The reagents are also costly. Looking at the options, it seems like it can test for all the elements we would want to track, including even dissolved oxygen, chlorine. Really would eliminate any guess work. I am considering that with this I could use my tap water since it's around 180 PPM, probably mostly calcium and magnesium. If I can quantify exactly how much is there and only add whats required to get it where I want then I can ditch the RO filter and save some hassle there (I hate changing the filters).


Are you on city or town water? If you are contact the city they will have a lab breakdown of their supplied water if it's not supplied on their website. Otherwise if your on well water you take it to a lab for testing. 

Water collection from rain or snow is almost pure water too. My downspout water is 25 ppm, gives me full control but for soil not as important.


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## Renfro (Apr 2, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> Are you on city or town water? If you are contact the city they will have a lab breakdown of their supplied water if it's not supplied on their website. Otherwise if your on well water you take it to a lab for testing.
> 
> Water collection from rain or snow is almost pure water too. My downspout water is 25 ppm, gives me full control but for soil not as important.


Well the water does change as it goes thru pipes and my water values change when our reservoir seasonally turns. Also want to be able to test nutrients.


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## Bignutes (Apr 2, 2020)

Totes of runoff?


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## killakanna (Apr 2, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I was looking around on the computer and some things popped up in the ads (no not pornhub lmao) and got me thinking...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whoa. I was just talking to a sales rep at Growlink about adding this to their automated fertigation. Great minds think alike eh?


----------



## DoubleAtotheRON (Apr 2, 2020)

Yeah... those buckets look yuge! Think we are going to go up to 10G this fall.


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## Renfro (Apr 2, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> Totes of runoff?


Huh?


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## Bignutes (Apr 2, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Huh?


Do you have a roofline to collect water? You could buy a used 1000 or 1250 litre tote to collect rainwater for less than $100. A rainfall amount of 3/8" on a 1500 sq ft rooftop building would collect you 1300 litres of water in one dump. If your on town water it saves you water and sewer and beyond the tote it's free water with next to zero ppm, you would just have to test your shingles as new ones can affect your ph and ppm.


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## Renfro (Apr 2, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> Do you have a roofline to collect water? You could buy a used 1000 or 1250 litre tote to collect rainwater for less than $100. A rainfall amount of 3/8" on a 1500 sq ft rooftop building would collect you 1300 litres of water in one dump. If your on town water it saves you water and sewer and beyond the tote it's free water with next to zero ppm, you would just have to test your shingles as new ones can affect your ph and ppm.


Colorado only allows a specific amount of rain water collection, I think it's 55 or 110 gallons. They didn't allow any collection until a year or two ago.


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## Bignutes (Apr 2, 2020)

Brutal law


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## Renfro (Apr 3, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> Brutal law


I just checked and they did change the law allowing up to 110 gallons of collection.

"Most homeowners in Colorado are now allowed to use rain barrels to collect rainwater. A maximum of two rain barrels with a combined storage of 110 gallons or less are allowed at each household. Collected rainwater may be used to irrigate outdoor lawns, plants or gardens."


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## Sif1 (Apr 3, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I just checked and they did change the law allowing up to 110 gallons of collection.
> 
> "Most homeowners in Colorado are now allowed to use rain barrels to collect rainwater. A maximum of two rain barrels with a combined storage of 110 gallons or less are allowed at each household. Collected rainwater may be used to irrigate outdoor lawns, plants or gardens."


Hi Renfro,

Without a doubt, this is the best journal I've ever read. Your knowledge and willingness to share it is amazing. Congratulations on your grows, and a BIG thanks for sharing your knowledge and being a decent human. 

Thanks for sharing quality info. It's a rear commodity these days. 

I'm from New Zealand, we still get 5k Lb.


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## Renfro (Apr 3, 2020)

Renfro said:


> So Teknik said any 24v driver will work, doesn't matter what type so I found this to power 4 strings of buddies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So the driver I ordered lives up to it's price and was DOA. It's hanging on the front door waiting for UPS pickup.


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## Renfro (Apr 3, 2020)

So I think I am going to try using my tap water instead of RO. An experiment. lol

Right now my tap is at 200 PPM and 7.35 pH. I mixed my veg mix with tap water, sans the normal calimagic and it came right to 1002 PPM and 6.9 pH. Not too shabby considering I am watering around 7.0 since my medium ends up at 6.5 when watered at that number, after some hard correction that already took place. So we will see how they like that, I will first try it on a row and use the RO feed with the calimagic and a healthy dose of pH up.

My reason for doing this is two fold. Firstly when I mix my RO feed the pH ends up too low for my liking and I have to add the pH up which causes calcium to precipitate out of the mix. I haven't seen any issues from that but I don't like it lol. Second I just hate changing RO filters. So it would really be nice to eliminate that requirement.

We will see how the plants like it, I don't anticipate any issues since our water's PPM is mostly comprised of calcium and magnesium. 

Something I thought was cool, I grabbed my bluelab soil pH pen after 4 months of sitting idle (in the KCL storage solution) and I checked in some 7.0 calibration solution, it read 7.0. Not too shabby.


----------



## DoubleAtotheRON (Apr 3, 2020)

Renfro said:


> So I think I am going to try using my tap water instead of RO. An experiment. lol
> 
> Right now my tap is at 200 PPM and 7.35 pH. I mixed my veg mix with tap water, sans the normal calimagic and it came right to 1002 PPM and 6.9 pH. Not too shabby considering I am watering around 7.0 since my medium ends up at 6.5 when watered at that number, after some hard correction that already took place. So we will see how they like that, I will first try it on a row and use the RO feed with the calimagic and a healthy dose of pH up.
> 
> ...


Good to hear it held calibration!.. We may be in the same aquifer, even tho Im in Ok... the guy that drilled our well said that this aquifer is fed by Colorado melting snow, rain, etc, and it takes 7 years for it to get here from there. Your numbers are right on par with my well water. It floats around just a little 277ppm-325ish.... its hard as fuck, but it's clean. I get about a 7.6 - 7.8PH out of the tap. It'll be interesting to see how this experiment turns out!


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## Renfro (Apr 3, 2020)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> Good to hear it held calibration!.. We may be in the same aquifer, even tho Im in Ok... the guy that drilled our well said that this aquifer is fed by Colorado melting snow, rain, etc, and it takes 7 years for it to get here from there. Your numbers are right on par with my well water. It floats around just a little 277ppm-325ish.... its hard as fuck, but it's clean. I get about a 7.6 - 7.8PH out of the tap. It'll be interesting to see how this experiment turns out!


My tap comes from the Pueblo reservoir, fed off the Arkansas river.


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## Thundercat (Apr 3, 2020)

Renfro said:


> So I think I am going to try using my tap water instead of RO. An experiment. lol
> 
> Right now my tap is at 200 PPM and 7.35 pH. I mixed my veg mix with tap water, sans the normal calimagic and it came right to 1002 PPM and 6.9 pH. Not too shabby considering I am watering around 7.0 since my medium ends up at 6.5 when watered at that number, after some hard correction that already took place. So we will see how they like that, I will first try it on a row and use the RO feed with the calimagic and a healthy dose of pH up.
> 
> ...


Dude I switched to tap years ago and never looked back. As long as it’s decent tap you are gonna save so much time and money.


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Apr 3, 2020)

Renfro said:


> My tap comes from the Pueblo reservoir, fed off the Arkansas river.


Cool... now that I have a few under my belt, Im going to experiment with a few things as well. Different feed, training, etc... I guess I have time to do that now. LOL... Good to hear you back up and running man!


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Apr 3, 2020)

Thundercat said:


> Dude I switched to tap years ago and never looked back. As long as it’s decent tap you are gonna save so much time and money.


Man.. I was on Rural Water District for years. It's the same damn water I get now, but alot cheaper with your own well. I think it was roughly $8500 for the drill/well/wellhouse.. I got a bill about 4 years ago for $714.00 for that month. My dad was watering the piss out of everything that grew. I had to choke him out!... but now, we can run 7 tower sprinklers 24/7 and keep everything green (mostly lawn) for about 18 bucks a week (cost for pump power) for all water/showers, laundry, anything water. It's 220 ft deep to the bottom of the aquifer, and hit water at 70 ft. So!. we have 150 ft of water we can draw from... dude told me that if we ran it 24/7, my great, great grandkids would still not run out of water... I told him I dont have grandkids. LOL


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## Bignutes (Apr 3, 2020)

I wonder as the seasons change if the ratio of ca to mg would change. I know the hardness will change but if the ratio doesn't then you'll know the ca and mg regardless of season.


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Apr 3, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> I wonder as the seasons change if the ratio of ca to mg would change. I know the hardness will change but if the ratio doesn't then you'll know the ca and mg regardless of season.


I only had it tested once after the install.... dont even remember the numbers.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 3, 2020)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> Man.. I was on Rural Water District for years. It's the same damn water I get now, but alot cheaper with your own well. I think it was roughly $8500 for the drill/well/wellhouse.. I got a bill about 4 years ago for $714.00 for that month. My dad was watering the piss out of everything that grew. I had to choke him out!... but now, we can run 7 tower sprinklers 24/7 and keep everything green (mostly lawn) for about 18 bucks a week (cost for pump power) for all water/showers, laundry, anything water. It's 220 ft deep to the bottom of the aquifer, and hit water at 70 ft. So!. we have 150 ft of water we can draw from... dude told me that if we ran it 24/7, my great, great grandkids would still not run out of water... I told him I dont have grandkids. LOL


Fortunately our water is cheap, my average monthly bill is around 40 bucks. Thats with a LOT of water usage. Back in KC missouri I paid more than that for the monthly meter charge lol. Electricity however is about 2x as costly here as it was in KC.


Bignutes said:


> I wonder as the seasons change if the ratio of ca to mg would change. I know the hardness will change but if the ratio doesn't then you'll know the ca and mg regardless of season.


I know that my reservoir water changes as it turns with the seasons, that said most well water I have experienced is very stable.


----------



## Bignutes (Apr 3, 2020)

Your water bill is decent, out of curiosity how much do those Amazon's drink at their max say per day? They must be thirsty at that size!

Electricity here in Alberta is about $0.17 per kWh when everything is factored in. Water is well, close to the mountains here and when I fill my white five gallon pail it's got a decent blue tint like mountain lake water, hard as hell.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 3, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> Your water bill is decent, out of curiosity how much do those Amazon's drink at their max say per day?


About 1.5 gallons a day per plant.


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## Sif1 (Apr 4, 2020)

kmog33 said:


> Coco just drains and dehydrates extremely well. Most media absorbs more water and holds onto it longer. Additionally roots have an easier time growing in less restrictive media so in lots of situations you’ll have a bigger roots mass than a lot of systems, faster, increasing water uptake rate.
> 
> so I assume the water consumption is a combination of evaporation, better drainage, and the plants Water uptake.


 Plus the coco not being as dense allows more oxygen around the root zone.


----------



## Sif1 (Apr 4, 2020)

I built this flood and drain setup using coco. The chip I use is much more coarse. Reason for that using flood and drain its easy to saturate the pots. The pots in this setup sit on a 10mm mesh to allow for drainage.

Tent size is 3mx1.5mx2mh, 
The table is a sheet of ply 2.4l x1.2w
Hold about 100 plants sog. 
Preferred fert is GH, however its difficult to get in New Zealand so I end up importing myself. 

This is the first one using LEDs. I do use HPS 600s in the other 4 tents. 3 lights per tent 1800watts and the best harvest last yr was 5.3lb of bud, The strain was Bruce Banner from Ilovegrowingmarijuan website. The black tub will be removed, have some newly rooted clones in it.

This table has a mixture. My bro gave my this clone called Pink Plant . See how it runs.



I just received some seeds from Greenpointseeds, Don't know much about them but this is what I got so far. 



I want to give Renfro a huge thanks for sharing his knowledge. Any advice on my setup is welcome, plus am always keen to hear about new strains.

Just to let you know Cannabis is still illegal in New Zealand , hence the price of a lb 5k. 

And we are currently in full lockdown.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 4, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> I want to give Renfro a huge thanks for sharing his knowledge.


You are most welcome! 


Sif1 said:


> Just to let you know Cannabis is still illegal in New Zealand , hence the price of a lb 5k.
> 
> And we are currently in full lockdown.


Well be safe in more ways than one. Nobody knows where this is going but it could get hairy really fast.


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## Sif1 (Apr 4, 2020)

r the table for flood and drain


Renfro said:


> You are most welcome!
> 
> Well be safe in more ways than one. Nobody knows where this is going but it could get hairy really fast.


Presently am just trying to get these tents dialled in. Currently have 4 running. Target is 8 which basically translates into harvesting 1 table p/w . The one I posted is the only LED one. Rest are HPS 600s and some DE 600s. 

I need yo up my game, if I can get 2lb per 4x4 that would be excellent. I had one table last yr produce 5.3 for the whole table which is 9.8 sq foot. But my average was closer to 3lb per table.. So thats not great. There's room for much improvement. Any advice is welcomed.

Does anyone know anything about those strains I posted? I'm all ears on strains and getting these tables dialled in.

Here's a pic of the tank. needs a clean I know. Its a 200L about 44gallons. On its side, has an airstone, water heater 20degrees, circulating pump, and a pump that runs into 40mm, 1 1/2 inch hose connected under the table using flood and drain on a timer it takes 2minutes to flood, to drain about the same, will check it to be sure. It also has a valve so I can adjust the flow rate.

Cheers


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## Renfro (Apr 5, 2020)

Check out a strain called Mimosa if you get a chance. I have a breeders cut of it and it's dank, dense, purply.... great yielder.

OCD x M15 is some real fire, good yields.

Freezer Burn x Lemon Fire (Caps Frozen Lemons) is some real good stuff. Definitely needs defoliation.

If you ever run GMO beware of the stretch. She needs 12 weeks to flower and I didn't expect the extra 2 weeks would all be in stretch. It stretched for a month after flip then started to actually flower. Ended up in my lights lol.

I grew a bruce banner about 7 years ago, it was a beefy bitch. I ended up running a pheno of Kandy Kush that was probably the best yielder I ever had. Really lemony and piney with a little gassy note coming on as she ripened. The other phenos I have found of her weren't like that, they were good and yielded well but not insane like that pheno. I am a firm believer that to find a gem phenotype one must sprout 100 beans. Just popping 10 beans may not give you enough odds to get that one really bad ass plant to clone from for a few years.

Genetics is the biggest key for yields. What works for another may not work for you. When you find a winning yielder, keep it and run the hell out of it. Anytime I start fucking around with multiple strains it definitely drops my overall yields. So if you want the consistent yield numbers you gotta stick with the strains that work for you. Having to start from scratch is the worst, can take 1.5 - 2 years to get back in the groove again unless you had your genetics stashed with other growers and can get them back in clone form.


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## Sif1 (Apr 5, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Check out a strain called Mimosa if you get a chance. I have a breeders cut of it and it's dank, dense, purply.... great yielder.
> 
> OCD x M15 is some real fire, good yields.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply. really appreciated. I may have got lucky with the Banner, I grew ten, gave 1 to my bro and another to my best mate whom I grew up with. They both struggle with it, so I think they got duds. But the one I saved is awesome in sog, that was the strain I got the 5.3 from. So maybe I got lucky. Some plants almost had 3oz on them. That's using GH products. No one supplies GH downunder anymore,so I have to import them.

I'll have a look at the strains to recommend. Do you have a preferred seedbank? Obviously being in NZ I'm unable to get the cut, so seeds it will need to be.

Hope you are keeping safe. Stock up on everything, even corona. I think this has got some way to go yet.

I was told you couldn't do flood and drain with coco. I've made it work by using bigger chips. Does anyone have any ideas about this?

Cheers Renfro.


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## Sif1 (Apr 5, 2020)

GMO, 12 weeks flower. maybe they are ones for the garden next yr.


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## Sif1 (Apr 6, 2020)

Help.


----------



## Sif1 (Apr 6, 2020)

Sorry Renfro, just had to post that.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 6, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> Do you have a preferred seedbank?


I get most all of my genetics as breeders cuts and a few as beans / plants from my buddies, so I haven't bought a seed since like 2004 ish. When it comes to seeds my buddy is the bean hoarder, there are some posts about it somewhere in this thread, he also had a list of banks he likes:





Sif1 said:


> Hope you are keeping safe. Stock up on everything, even corona. I think this has got some way to go yet.


Same to you, be safe. This is the real deal. I think that the world population is about to take a big hit. I commented about it on another thread, but yeah our house of cards is coming down. I am pretty well stocked up but this is going to last longer than a month or two. They have to invent a vaccine, test it at least a little, manufacture a lot of it, distribute it... This isn't going to be over quick and I think they are downplaying it a lot to prevent/delay mass hysteria.



Sif1 said:


> GMO, 12 weeks flower. maybe they are ones for the garden next yr.


It's some real fire and the yield potentials are great provided you have the space for her to get big. I really think that she would be great in a SoG taking rooted cuttings directly to 12/12. End up around 4 feet tall and have 3/4 - 1 ounce per plant, most all as one big cola.

Sorry I got high and distracted making this post, lol. Glad this site saved the draft.


----------



## Sif1 (Apr 6, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I get most all of my genetics as breeders cuts and a few as beans / plants from my buddies, so I haven't bought a seed since like 2004 ish. When it comes to seeds my buddy is the bean hoarder, there are some posts about it somewhere in this thread, he also had a list of banks he likes:
> 
> View attachment 4525034
> 
> ...


Hey mate you get high, you are not beholding to me or anyone. As for growing weed, you are a godsend to us all.

Thanks for the info. Rocking out her e in New Zealand. (NZ).


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## Gond00s (Apr 7, 2020)

hey ren got a question have u tried running the vermiculite yet or no and if so what ratios were u using would. saw u said u wanted to use it hoping u are and if not u just aren't but the plant are looking like their gonna start taking of so your gonna have a good time.


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## hybridway2 (Apr 8, 2020)

Renfro said:


> So I think I am going to try using my tap water instead of RO. An experiment. lol
> 
> Right now my tap is at 200 PPM and 7.35 pH. I mixed my veg mix with tap water, sans the normal calimagic and it came right to 1002 PPM and 6.9 pH. Not too shabby considering I am watering around 7.0 since my medium ends up at 6.5 when watered at that number, after some hard correction that already took place. So we will see how they like that, I will first try it on a row and use the RO feed with the calimagic and a healthy dose of pH up.
> 
> ...


So you have not given the tap a go yet? Goodluck with the experiment!. How long you been there? 
When i switched locations the water was less then desirable to drink or even bath in compared to the prior spot. I was literally carrying 20gal at a time from that opp to this one to feed veg. This went on for a minute then harvested n bought a (mustve been $800) RO machine/filtration. 
I had problems using RO. Who knows then cuz i had other dialing in issues to worry about simultaneously switching to led. 
After a few runs i ditched the RO for plants & used for drinking. It comes out 0. Shell-Shocked when replacement filters cost me $200 a piece x2 (luckily got $100 off), then a pre-filter the other day. Bought so to bottle water, especially if our water sources get contaminated or can't get out to buy some. You know, the Zombies are just around the corner. Lol!
After giving my tap a chance (110ppm/.2ec) & dialing in led, it works fine. I don't drink it but the plants seam to like it good enough. 
You say the water source fluctuates between seasons? Each run would adapt fine hopefully. 
Good to see you back in action. You give me goals! Peace n be safe!


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## Bignutes (Apr 8, 2020)

I would think and agree with hybridway2, plants would adapt, even still tho a TDS pen and your in the ballpark of where the water sits during the season. I am stopping using the rainwater runoff, its got zero buffering ability, no goodies which then most people would have to buy along with ph down, tap water already has both buffering and goodies. Drinking the koolaid which I'm guilty of. My ph down is lemon juice, in enough quantity it buffers and pretty well, you just have to undershoot it by a couple of points. The ph went from 5.86 to 6.47 over three days on tapwater. Pretty good considering it's a fraction of the cost and I can get it while getting groceries.


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## hybridway2 (Apr 8, 2020)

Thundercat said:


> Dude I switched to tap years ago and never looked back. As long as it’s decent tap you are gonna save so much time and money.


NM all the water being wasted with RO. many are 1:1 & it may not even be necessary. That was bothering me also about using mine.


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## hybridway2 (Apr 8, 2020)

Renfro said:


> About 1.5 gallons a day per plant.


Damn, would have guessed more.


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## hybridway2 (Apr 8, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> I built this flood and drain setup using coco. The chip I use is much more coarse. Reason for that using flood and drain its easy to saturate the pots. The pots in this setup sit on a 10mm mesh to allow for drainage.
> 
> Tent size is 3mx1.5mx2mh,
> The table is a sheet of ply 2.4l x1.2w
> ...


I am having good luck with GPS. Can't beat the price options either. Hard to decide on keepers.


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## Sif1 (Apr 8, 2020)

hybridway2 said:


> I am having good luck with GPS. Can't beat the price options either. Hard to decide on keepers.


I got 100% germination. The Rum Runners are powering. I'm excited about Sundar Banana Cookies.

I also ordered a heap of seed from Ilovegrowingmarijuana. That was two months ago and nothing has arrived. I don't recommend this seed bank because of that.


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## ryan s (Apr 8, 2020)

I'm interested to see how your water experiment goes as I am also getting my water from the Pueblo reservoir and using 6 gallons of R/O water a day is producing a lot of waste water and is a lot of effort. Are you still de-chlorinating?


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## Renfro (Apr 8, 2020)

hybridway2 said:


> So you have not given the tap a go yet? Goodluck with the experiment!. How long you been there?
> When i switched locations the water was less then desirable to drink or even bath in compared to the prior spot. I was literally carrying 20gal at a time from that opp to this one to feed veg. This went on for a minute then harvested n bought a (mustve been $800) RO machine/filtration.
> I had problems using RO. Who knows then cuz i had other dialing in issues to worry about simultaneously switching to led.
> After a few runs i ditched the RO for plants & used for drinking. It comes out 0. Shell-Shocked when replacement filters cost me $200 a piece x2 (luckily got $100 off), then a pre-filter the other day. Bought so to bottle water, especially if our water sources get contaminated or can't get out to buy some. You know, the Zombies are just around the corner. Lol!
> ...


I kinda got stuck on RO because it's all I have ever run with hydro. When I switched to soiless mix I just kept on going with it. Will see how it does.


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## Sif1 (Apr 8, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I kinda got stuck on RO because it's all I have ever run with hydro. When I switched to soiless mix I just kept on going with it. Will see how it does.


I'm on rainwater here. After coming from town water it's much different mixing your ferts etc. With chlorine, you can fill your reservoir up and let it evaporate over a couple of days. The other thing I have done is used that stuff you put in your fish tanks that take the minerals out. Unsure how that affects your fertilizer though


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## Sif1 (Apr 9, 2020)

@Renfro.

I decided to up my ppm to 1100-1200 ppm from reading your numbers. With this reading using the Bluelab Truncheon which ppm are you using . TDS 500 or EC 700?

Cheers


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## Renfro (Apr 9, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> @Renfro.
> 
> I decided to up my ppm to 1100-1200 ppm from reading your numbers. With this reading using the Bluelab Truncheon which ppm are you using . TDS 500 or EC 700?
> 
> Cheers


500. thats pretty standard for us growers to use.


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## Sif1 (Apr 9, 2020)

Renfro said:


> 500. thats pretty standard for us growers to use.


Thanks, Had to make sure so I'm on the same page. i noticed an very fast difference putting it up rather than slowly increasing.


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## Sif1 (Apr 11, 2020)

This thread has been so good, it's motivated me to go over everything and fix all the small things. Its unreal. Almost as good as surfing a 10ft barrel over shallow coral and surviving.


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## Renfro (Apr 11, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> i noticed an very fast difference putting it up rather than slowly increasing.


kinda like stomping on the accelerator pedal... lol

I have learned that, at least for me, taking my well rooted clones directly to an EC of 2.0 really makes them pop. I have done the same with seedlings on their first feed (I wait until they have the first multi-bladed leaves) and they love it. I don't see the need to start low and ease up. This also made it easier for my veg room nutrients, one tank for all plant ages.

I often wonder if plants get burnt, not from the higher PPM overall, but too much of just a specific nutrient. Like say nitrogen (just tossing that out there not saying it is the problem child), or even just the NO3- or NH4+ form nitrogen. I have run some pretty high PPM's like 1400's and didn't notice any burn so perhaps I didn't have too much of any one element/compound? I never sat down and did any experiments in this area but it could possibly glean some good information about what elements / compounds can't be tolerated at higher levels so easily. Heck the information is probably out there for excavation at will.

damn I really rattle on when I am stoned.

anyways I am glad your plants reacted kindly to the bump.


Sif1 said:


> This thread has been so good, it's motivated me to go over everything and fix all the small things. Its unreal. Almost as good as surfing a 10ft barrel over shallow coral and surviving.


hmm, I don't know what that is like firsthand but I will assume it's a rush.


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## Renfro (Apr 11, 2020)

So I have been using the tap H2O and it's doing good so far, still vegging them into the trellis though. This strain has woody stems that don't like a hard press when super cropping them out sideways. I therefore take them in the room smaller and grow them into the trellis with less smashery. Of course this eats more power but whaddya gonna do? Better than busted branches. That was one thing about the glue, you could really get aggressive with training her. I still have that cut as a mother in veg, maybe I will do a re-run of it for Christmas.

I have been running the overhead lights and vertical lamps between rows for 12 hours and the row end 400's for 6 more hours to get 18. It's funny how when the end row lights are on the leaves angle down and face the lower angle of light. One might be inclined to think they aren't happy but very much the opposite.

I've noted that when I veg them in the flowering rooms if I turn all the lights on for 18 hours they get really stressed, just too much at once. Giving them the light as I have described keeps them really happy, the less intense light for the last 6 hours of each day also seems to prevent them from getting that tired look that they get for the last few hours of each day when under the intense overhead LED or CMH in my veg room.

That is definitely something to consider for longer veg cycles, have lighting ramp down at the end of each day, say after 12 hours on start ramping down and have around 60% power for the last 2-4 hours. Ramping up as well probably, but faster like in the first hour go from low to high. This would save energy and probably make for happier plants. I know there are controllers out there just for this like gavita's but I never figured it would actually be better than just going on and off with intense light. Would be nice to make a controller that would automatically ramp up and down my DIY LED's.

So yeah someone is gonna say that this should all be self evident because thats how nature works. I will respond by saying as indoor growers back in the day we started out with lights that were on or off. Dimmable's are a more recent invention that came along with digital ballasts. It is easy to be stuck in your ways and thinking that more light is better and it's worked fine for 30 years, why change it. Well saving energy is nice but it's not why I think this is good, it's because of how the plants seem to respond kindly.

Well here I go again all stoned and blabbering.

Anyways, back to the tap water. Ive noticed that I have to mix things differently. Just for starters I always let the tank mix really well before adding another nute and I am not currently using calimagic with the tap h2o. 

If I do the normal SI,M,G,B order directly into the mix tank I get a LOT of precipitation after the grow goes in. I experimented with small mixes and found that the Si is problematic with the tap h2o if it's added first as you would normally do with RO h2o. What I started doing is adding the M,G,B and then using the Si as the pH up. Doing it like this I haven't had anything dropping out of solution.


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## Bignutes (Apr 11, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I have been running the overhead lights and vertical lamps between rows for 12 hours and the row end 400's for 6 more hours to get 18. It's funny how when the end row lights are on the leaves angle down and face the lower angle of light. One might be inclined to think they aren't happy but very much the opposite.
> 
> I've noted that when I veg them in the flowering rooms if I turn all the lights on for 18 hours they get really stressed, just too much at once. Giving them the light as I have described keeps them really happy, the less intense light for the last 6 hours of each day also seems to prevent them from getting that tired look that they get for the last few hours of each day when under the intense overhead LED or CMH in my veg room.
> 
> ...


I agree on the ramp up and down of light. I notice as the plants get a little older their tolerance for the same light levels go down, that droopy giving up at the end of the day comes on quicker, not sure if thats from age or something in my grow. I either raise the light more than otherwise or reduce the time.

Something that gets overlooked is plants get their food from the sun, not from the soil or hydro those inputs just facilitate the plants. An analogy is we eat food, plants eat sunshine. When you think of it like that who would be happy eating oatmeal all the time, or worse having a shit sandwich for 20+ hours a day (insert blurple steroid grower here). Hell i dont know of any naturally occurring ruderalis strain that receives more than 15.5 hours of sun a day, yet 24 Is given? 

This set my frame of mind when I built my LED's, ease into sunrise ramp up and back down for sunset. Gives the girls some balanced food. I've heard a rumor that there is more of a push going to 16 hour veg on the west coast, plants seem to do better, more resilient, healthier.........no shit hey! Genetically programmed to get an absolute max of about 14.5 hours on summer solstice at cannabis latitudes, we treat our plants like assembly line robots and looking at all the grow problems on here it's little wonder why. Master growers push the limits and it pays off great but it's thru years of dialing it in or being mentoring by someone, no one starts at the top. For an average grower or new grower they should dumb it down and go back to basics instead of bro logic and slowly piece it together, gain knowledge. Sit with your plants, observe, pay attention, research, ask questions.


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## Teag (Apr 11, 2020)

Is the calmag already in the tap water readily available? I thought calmag products would still be necessary in a soiless/hydro setup since the plant can't access the calmag in the tap water easily.


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## Renfro (Apr 11, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> I notice as the plants get a little older their tolerance for the same light levels go down, that droopy giving up at the end of the day comes on quicker, not sure if thats from age or something in my grow.


hmm I noticed the opposite. I seem to note that they harden with age and take more.


Bignutes said:


> I've heard a rumor that there is more of a push going to 16 hour veg on the west coast, plants seem to do better, more resilient, healthier.........no shit hey


16 hour veg is in fact very logical. I think I may give it a try.


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## Renfro (Apr 11, 2020)

Teag said:


> Is the calmag readily available in tap water? I thought calmag products would still be necessary in a soiless/hydro setup since the plant can't access the calmag in the tap water easily.


all depends on your tap water. definitely need calmag with RO, may not need it with tap or may need some or may just need epsom because there is already ample calcium.


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## Bignutes (Apr 11, 2020)

Renfro said:


> hmm I noticed the opposite. I seem to note that they harden with age and take more.
> 
> 16 hour veg is in fact very logical. I think I may give it a try.


I noticed they can take more intensity till late veg, its corrected with fewer hours, so perhaps along the lines of DLI? Not sure. Maybe the ramp up and down has something to do with it or its my grow.


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## Bignutes (Apr 11, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> I noticed they can take more intensity till late veg, its corrected with fewer hours, so perhaps along the lines of DLI? Not sure. Maybe the ramp up and down has something to do with it or its my grow.


I'll correct that, the same intensity for the same duration is what I'm referring to during late veg. They can take more intensity as I ramp it up towards flower but I drop the hours which is what we all do to flower. It makes me think that going with a 15 hour day veg with higher intensities to meet the DLI would be the "natural" way. Same amount of total energy just fewer hours. It would make the transition to flower not so much of a shock. Would need to be tested.


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## hybridway2 (Apr 12, 2020)

Renfro said:


> So I have been using the tap H2O and it's doing good so far, still vegging them into the trellis though. This strain has woody stems that don't like a hard press when super cropping them out sideways. I therefore take them in the room smaller and grow them into the trellis with less smashery. Of course this eats more power but whaddya gonna do? Better than busted branches. That was one thing about the glue, you could really get aggressive with training her. I still have that cut as a mother in veg, maybe I will do a re-run of it for Christmas.
> 
> I have been running the overhead lights and vertical lamps between rows for 12 hours and the row end 400's for 6 more hours to get 18. It's funny how when the end row lights are on the leaves angle down and face the lower angle of light. One might be inclined to think they aren't happy but very much the opposite.
> 
> ...


Agreed on the ramping down the last 4 hrs of veg. When i check on them 2 hrs before lights out, they are already look like they're ready for bed. The TrollMaster doesn't do this stuff?
I was pleasantly surprised when i got off the RO. Prob a dumb question for you but do you bubble your rez for 24 hrs before mixing or feeding? I found that a high psi bubbler with a few stones can really make a difference fast.


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## hybridway2 (Apr 12, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> I'll correct that, the same intensity for the same duration is what I'm referring to during late veg. They can take more intensity as I ramp it up towards flower but I drop the hours which is what we all do to flower. It makes me think that going with a 15 hour day veg with higher intensities to meet the DLI would be the "natural" way. Same amount of total energy just fewer hours. It would make the transition to flower not so much of a shock. Would need to be tested.


I add hrs of darkness to veg 3wks before flower. They love it!


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## Bignutes (Apr 12, 2020)

hybridway2 said:


> I add hrs of darkness to veg 3wks before flower. They love it!


I do the same, my lighting schedule is controlled by an app on my phone where I reduce time from 16 to 14.5 for a few weeks in veg then I get down to 11 hours by end of flower. I keep knocking off time and use the leaf droop as my metric. At intervals i ramp light intensity


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## thenasty1 (Apr 12, 2020)

Renfro said:


> 16 hour veg is in fact very logical. I think I may give it a try.


it works. ive been running a 16 hour veg for a while now. no real change in plant behavior, just shaves a little off the power bill


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## Renfro (Apr 12, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> I do the same, my lighting schedule is controlled by an app on my phone where I reduce time from 16 to 14.5 for a few weeks in veg then I get down to 11 hours by end of flower. I keep knocking off time and use the leaf droop as my metric. At intervals i ramp light intensity


I have had some strains that would try to flower at 15.5 so I wouldn't go to 14.5 in veg.


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## Bignutes (Apr 12, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I have had some strains that would try to flower at 15.5 so I wouldn't go to 14.5 in veg.


I transition into flower after 50 days or so so its a quasi veg/flower period. I noticed my clones go quickly into flower because of their sexual maturity, seeds longer and yeah it varies strain by strain. It makes sense to not go direct to flower like 18 to 12, it short changes the potential energy the plant could receive on the slide down. Ime ramping down from either 18, 17, 16, 15, 14 within a week and then triggering flower by 13.5 or 14 hours for the first three-four weeks of flower gives the plant an extra 38 hours or 3.2 extra days of production that you didn't have before. Plants finish in the same amount of time, you just got to make sure how your strain react and don't mix clones with seeds. Also 13 hrs, 12.5 during weeks 5,6,7,8 will give you an extra 5 days of production. You with me on this?

The strain that your having issues with tough stems, either reduce or get rid of the Si, it will soften those mothers up real nice.


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## Renfro (Apr 12, 2020)

Bignutes said:


> The strain that your having issues with tough stems, either reduce or get rid of the Si, it will soften those mothers up real nice.


I have done that, some strains are just tougher than others. The mimosa likes to grow straight up, not outward at all like for example Romulan likes to go outward by nature. Combine the vertical nature and tough stems it makes it difficult to do what I do with them. Upside is she makes massive logs and those stems are handy then for holding up the weight.


Bignutes said:


> I transition into flower after 50 days or so so its a quasi veg/flower period. I noticed my clones go quickly into flower because of their sexual maturity, seeds longer and yeah it varies strain by strain. It makes sense to not go direct to flower like 18 to 12, it short changes the potential energy the plant could receive on the slide down. Ime ramping down from either 18, 17, 16, 15, 14 within a week and then triggering flower by 13.5 or 14 hours for the first three-four weeks of flower gives the plant an extra 38 hours or 3.2 extra days of production that you didn't have before. Plants finish in the same amount of time, you just got to make sure how your strain react and don't mix clones with seeds. Also 13 hrs, 12.5 during weeks 5,6,7,8 will give you an extra 5 days of production. You with me on this?


My rooms run on a flip and easing into flower is something that I am not setup for. It could be done but it's not something I plan to do.


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## Renfro (Apr 12, 2020)

Also easing them into flower would make it way more difficult to hit my target size, I am pushing my limits on space and it's very easy to get them too big or too small by flipping them a few days late or early.


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## oxvirgoxo (Apr 12, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Colorado only allows a specific amount of rain water collection, I think it's 55 or 110 gallons. They didn't allow any collection until a year or two ago.


thats crazy af... cant collect too much free water smh


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## Renfro (Apr 12, 2020)

oxvirgoxo said:


> thats crazy af... cant collect too much free water smh


blew my mind when I moved here. I think they were the only state that prohibited rain water collection. Now they let you collect up to 110 gallons. Really it's kinda silly if you ask me. I understand they want water to percolate down into the aquifers but really a lot of that water ends up in other states like oklahoma where they draw it from wells. Colorado is all about their water though. Back when the feds said that using water from the pueblo reservoir for growing weed was a federal issue and no bueno, Colorado stood up to them and said even if the Army Corps of Engineers built the dam the water is still colorado's resource. For about a month people were hauling large tanks of water from artisian wells to all the grow facilities.


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## Bignutes (Apr 12, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I have done that, some strains are just tougher than others. The mimosa likes to grow straight up, not outward at all like for example Romulan likes to go outward by nature. Combine the vertical nature and tough stems it makes it difficult to do what I do with them. Upside is she makes massive logs and those stems are handy then for holding up the weight.
> 
> My rooms run on a flip and easing into flower is something that I am not setup for. It could be done but it's not something I plan to do.


Yeah it's never a simple one two three. Humans, we make things black and white, simpler like that and for good reason.


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## oxvirgoxo (Apr 12, 2020)

Renfro said:


> blew my mind when I moved here. I think they were the only state that prohibited rain water collection. Now they let you collect up to 110 gallons. Really it's kinda silly if you ask me. I understand they want water to percolate down into the aquifers but really a lot of that water ends up in other states like oklahoma where they draw it from wells. Colorado is all about their water though. Back when the feds said that using water from the pueblo reservoir for growing weed was a federal issue and no bueno, Colorado stood up to them and said even if the Army Corps of Engineers built the dam the water is still colorado's resource. For about a month people were hauling large tanks of water from artisian wells to all the grow facilities.


well now that i think about it some more it does make a lil more sense if everyone started collecting unlimited amounts none is left to power the natural eco systems and the results would be awful


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## Renfro (Apr 12, 2020)

oxvirgoxo said:


> well now that i think about it some more it does make a lil more sense if everyone started collecting unlimited amounts none is left to power the natural eco systems and the results would be awful


I dunno about that. Frankly we are drawing down the aquifers faster than nature can refill them regardless of a little rain water collection. I think it's just silly to say that collecting the water that hits roofs would be more than a drop in the bucket, especially since most will just water their gardens and lawns with it anyway. It seems like a law to force people to buy water.

My lawn looks like a desert because even with 110 gal collection system I couldn't keep a happy lawn here in the desert. I have a neighbor that bitched about his water bill being over $400 a few summers ago. He had a sprinkler system and an amazing lawn. Now it's just dusty dirt and rocks like all the other homes on the street lol.

I honestly don't give a damn what my yard looks like, watering it just means mowing more often and I don't like that idea at all.

Really though, unless someone complained about you collecting larger amounts they wouldn't know anyway. Not like the water police are gonna come check otherwise.

They are even strict on how you use your residential well water out here. On my land in the mountains I put in a well, it produces really good rates. Due to the laws and the parcel size being less than 35 acres, I am NOT allowed to use the well water to wash my cars, water my garden or grass. I am only allowed to use it for household purposes like showers and washing dishes. Pretty gay if you ask me.


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## Love2Grow444 (Apr 12, 2020)

Wow, there's 76 pages to this thread and I'm delighted after the first one. What a super groovy setup you got. How much is the fakin' power bill...I gotta know lmao. So fakin' jealous you get such as high (pun intended) plant count. Stupid fakin' state legislature!!! If they'd just let everyone grow however much then no one would need to buy it. Fakers would practically be giving the shit away! Corrupt ass bitches!


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## Meast21 (Apr 13, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I can't really get in there and it's way too much trouble. I just take that larfy stuff and make edibles and salves with it all.


Yeah that's how I messed my neck up, reaching over and trying to pull leaves off in the middle of my tent. FFFFFFF


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## Meast21 (Apr 13, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Another thing I did between my rooms is I built what I call a light lock. Its a small closet size space between rooms with a pocket door on one side and a normal door on the other side. This way one can go from a dark room to a light room without any light getting through. I have these between room A and B and between room A and the veg room. I even have one at the entry as well (room B to the stairwell / laundry room. My medical count papers remain on the locked door to the grow.


I open the tents from time to time to look at my plants with lights off with a flash light for like 1 min and it don't seem to do anything. 1 min isn't gonna hurt is it?


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## Sif1 (Apr 13, 2020)

Meast21 said:


> I open the tents from time to time to look at my plants with lights off with a flash light for like 1 min and it don't seem to do anything. 1 min isn't gonna hurt is it?


 Once in bud ok a tiny bit. Use a green led instead.. , but when on the switch from 18 to 12, bad idea.


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## oxvirgoxo (Apr 13, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I dunno about that. Frankly we are drawing down the aquifers faster than nature can refill them regardless of a little rain water collection. I think it's just silly to say that collecting the water that hits roofs would be more than a drop in the bucket, especially since most will just water their gardens and lawns with it anyway. It seems like a law to force people to buy water.


yea thats probably more like it... law makers typically give little fucks about the environment and give all the fucks about money... Nestle and the bottled water companies are the ones makin the biggest environmental impacts on the watershed and water cycle. ive boycotted bottled water for myself i refuse to use it unless necessary which it has only been once or twice since i started. i also wont drink my tap water after filling a pool last summer and seein how brown n dingy it was in a large amount. work has a few filtered water coolers in the break room and i have a couple of the big ass fiji bottles that i just take to work and fill up and i also fill up my stainless thermal tumbler that keeps me supplied with free fresh drinking water lol... i feel you on cuttin the grass i haaaaaaate it already did it once for this season wish i stayed at my apt everytime i cut it lol


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## Renfro (Apr 13, 2020)

Meast21 said:


> I open the tents from time to time to look at my plants with lights off with a flash light for like 1 min and it don't seem to do anything. 1 min isn't gonna hurt is it?


I wouldn't do it except right at lights on or out or in later flowering. In early flower you really are on your best lighting schedule behavior.


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## Renfro (Apr 13, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> Use a green led instead


I use green LED headlamps in my rooms ALL the time and never had a problem. They are a must have for me and I always have a backup for when I drop one and it dies lol.


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## Renfro (Apr 14, 2020)

So these are about ready to flip, probably tomorrow.


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## oxvirgoxo (Apr 14, 2020)

looking good!


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## Onymous21 (Apr 15, 2020)

Noob question, why nets on the sides though? Hanging bulbs vertical on sides?


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## Renfro (Apr 15, 2020)

Onymous21 said:


> Noob question, why nets on the sides though? Hanging bulbs vertical on sides?


Side canopy (tall plants) plus side lighting (vertical bulbs) makes for more yield. Now I suggest going back through the thread from the beginning and you can get a better picture of what I am saying but here is an example of why the trellis on the sides.


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## Onymous21 (Apr 15, 2020)

Yeah I’m with ya now.


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## Sif1 (Apr 15, 2020)

Onymous21 said:


> Noob question, why nets on the sides though? Hanging bulbs vertical on sides?


Read the whole thread, it's gold.


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## Sif1 (Apr 15, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Side canopy (tall plants) plus side lighting (vertical bulbs) makes for more yield. Now I suggest going back through the thread from the beginning and you can get a better picture of what I am saying but here is an example of why the trellis on the sides.
> 
> View attachment 4534238


 I purchased some double-sided single bar LEDs from Ecospeedled. Gave then to a mate to try as he grew similar to you. I saw a huge difference by standing them vertically through the middle of his plant. This whole concept has got me thinking. And what about the 16hr veg? My thoughts are. If a plant goes from 24hr to 12 hr would it go to head faster than from 18 or 16hr to 12hr flower cycle? Has anyone tested this? Does a plant learn faster to switch into flower if it goes from 24hr clone to 18,16hr veg then 12hr flower.? Or straight from 24hr to 12hr.?


----------



## Renfro (Apr 15, 2020)

DL Wholesale Lightspeed FLIP16 Flip Box Lighting Controller


LIGHTSPEED FLIP16 Lighting Controller




hydrobuilder.com










POWERBOX® FLIPBOX® LIGHT SWITCHING MODULES







www.powerboxinc.com


----------



## Onymous21 (Apr 15, 2020)

My buddy has a flip box they’re dope


----------



## Renfro (Apr 15, 2020)

Meant that for another thread, wondered where I actually posted it. thanks


----------



## Renfro (Apr 15, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> If a plant goes from 24hr to 12 hr would it go to head faster than from 18 or 16hr to 12hr flower cycle? Has anyone tested this? Does a plant learn faster to switch into flower if it goes from 24hr clone to 18,16hr veg then 12hr flower.? Or straight from 24hr to 12hr.?


Sounds like you have an experiment to run. lol

Honestly I would suspect that a shorter the day before the flip would result is a slightly quicker transition to flower than a longer day before the flip. 

Do a a little research into florigen, it's something we are still learning about scientifically. I believe florigen receptors were first discovered this century (could be wrong).

This is just a very simplistic hypothesis that florigen is produced during the dark cycle and reduced during the light cycle. When it hits a critical level the plant is flowering. This is likely not the case but just a very simplistic explanation for how flowering is triggered.

In reality things are very likely much more complicated that that.

One thing I do know is that if you want a faster transition to flower you could start with a longer dark period on the first day of flip.


----------



## Sif1 (Apr 15, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Sounds like you have an experiment to run. lol
> 
> Honestly I would suspect that a shorter the day before the flip would result is a slightly quicker transition to flower than a longer day before the flip.
> 
> ...


yes, we do 36 hr darkness on the flip.


----------



## Sif1 (Apr 15, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Sounds like you have an experiment to run. lol


 To do this I would have to run the least statistical number of 30 to get an accurate reading. hmmmmm.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 17, 2020)

I was down there mixing up some nutes and grabbed a few night shots of room B where they are flipping to flower.



This is the end of their first long dark cycle. I went with a 36 hour dark period to knock a few days off their transition as I think they are gonna blow the fuck up lol.

I will give them some good hard training today when the lights are on, and away we go!

Note: You can see the glow of my greed LED headlamp.

I will be moving plants into room A tomorrow so they can start vegging into the trellis as the ones in room B did for the first few weeks of this month.


----------



## DoubleAtotheRON (Apr 19, 2020)

Damn son!... Looking good over there!


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## Renfro (Apr 19, 2020)

DoubleAtotheRON said:


> Damn son!... Looking good over there!


Thanks much! I pressed them more under the trellis and they look sorta retarded but those extra inches are gonna be needed for the stretch.


----------



## Renfro (Apr 19, 2020)

So here are the Mimosa plants i moved into room A. I defoliated them and pressed them under the trellis. I let my girl put a couple plants in there this round using the 10 gallon sites at the ends of the aisles. She's got a Wedding Cake and a Gelato 33.


----------



## oxvirgoxo (Apr 19, 2020)

Renfro said:


> So here are the Mimosa plants i moved into room A. I defoliated them and pressed them under the trellis. I let my girl put a couple plants in there this round using the 10 gallon sites at the ends of the aisles. She's got a Wedding Cake and a Gelato 33.
> 
> View attachment 4538889View attachment 4538890View attachment 4538891


im a fan of wedding cake def gonna watch your girls grow


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## GotRice (Apr 22, 2020)

Wow, took me 4 days reading through this 77 pages. Thank you so much for all the great pictures, knowledge and motivation for me to learn. Stay safe during this Corona Time and growing heavy plants Renfro and all. Thanks again Renfro for all the knowledge sharing, its great info!!!


----------



## 1littlesoldier1 (Apr 23, 2020)

Nice looking as usual Renfro. I don't believe the 36h of darkness will do much besides adding some stretch to your plants but I could be wrong.


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## 1littlesoldier1 (Apr 24, 2020)

Which room harvested the most when you got your 54 lbs. Room A or B? I am still reading through the thread and I gotta say wow. Lots of good info. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge Renfro.


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## Renfro (Apr 24, 2020)

1littlesoldier1 said:


> Which room harvested the most when you got your 54 lbs. Room A or B? I am still reading through the thread and I gotta say wow. Lots of good info. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge Renfro.


They were pretty close but A by a few pounds.


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## diggs99 (Apr 24, 2020)

Renfro said:


> They were pretty close but A by a few pounds.


Have you fired up the rooms again? 

How are the other projects going? 

Hope your well, stay safe bro


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## Renfro (Apr 24, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Have you fired up the rooms again?


Yeah.


diggs99 said:


> How are the other projects going?


This virus has everything in a holding pattern.


----------



## diggs99 (Apr 24, 2020)

Nice, whats in the lineup this round?

Ya man, everything is at a stand still it seems.


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## Renfro (Apr 24, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> Nice, whats in the lineup this round?
> 
> Ya man, everything is at a stand still it seems.


All mimosa except my girl has a wedding cake and gelato 33 in the mix.


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## Renfro (Apr 24, 2020)

So i finally got a working driver for the buddies Teknik sent to me. These little fuckers are bright.

I stuck them back to back and will string them inside a plant while its being trained into the trellis and i will fire them up probably post stretch.

Teknik says they can touch the plant without issue as they are cool. i left these running for about 10 minutes and they are just barely warm.


----------



## Sif1 (Apr 25, 2020)

I have Fungus Gnats. I have treated them once, but want to treat them with H202. Does anyone know the ratio of H202 per 10L? The h202 is 3%


----------



## Renfro (Apr 25, 2020)

So a few pics of room B 9 days after flip. Hopefully I get a but more stretch, still getting a feel for this new strain. It really wants to grow up and not sideways, a lot harder to spread than the gg4 was.


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## spek9 (Apr 25, 2020)

Renfro said:


> TBH I start them on my full strength veg nutes, right about 1000 PPM. I have never seen signs of plants not liking it. Many will argue this point I am sure but the plants don't show any signs of burn or anything. Everyone in my veg room gets the same feed.


Sorry for a reply on such an old post, but just wanted to say that I do the same thing nowadays with my rooted clones. I mix my nutrients in stock tanks in advance instead of every feed, so having one tank for veg without having to do any adjustments and then re-pH-ing for different plant sizes saves a lot of time and effort (and prevents accidental screw ups), even in my significantly smaller grow areas.

If any of the little ones show any problems, it's very easy to just skip the odd feeding and give pH'd water, but I've yet to have to do this.


----------



## Sif1 (Apr 26, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> I have Fungus Gnats. I have treated them once, but want to treat them with H202. Does anyone know the ratio of H202 per 10L? The h202 is 3%


Ratio suggested is 4:1


----------



## hipressure (Apr 26, 2020)

Favorite grow journal to date ...!


----------



## Renfro (Apr 26, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> I have Fungus Gnats. I have treated them once, but want to treat them with H202. Does anyone know the ratio of H202 per 10L? The h202 is 3%





Sif1 said:


> Ratio suggested is 4:1


Yeah I have no clue, I use BTI (Gnatrol) to prevent fungus gnats.

Always make sure to confirm the identity of the pest as winged root aphids are commonly mistaken for fungus gnats and they are a much bigger problem as well.


----------



## GotRice (May 2, 2020)

Renfro said:


> All mimosa except my girl has a wedding cake and gelato 33 in the mix.


Wow, you love Mimosa that much to not grow any of your other strain? You make me wanna get a 10 Pack just to try it out. I hate growing from regular seeds, its too much luck of a draw and pheno hunting is not my thing; to much time invested. Also, I only have a Plant Count of 15 up here in Seattle, so i always try to grow from clones. It's a safer route.

Btw, how long will you Veg Mimosa (same as others 8-10 weeks?). And what kind of Yield are you expecting for each plant or yielding for a whole room?


----------



## Renfro (May 2, 2020)

GotRice said:


> you love Mimosa that much to not grow any of your other strain?


mono culture always performs best.


----------



## GotRice (May 2, 2020)

Renfro said:


> mono culture always performs best.


What kind of Yield are you expecting from full room of Mimosa?


----------



## Renfro (May 2, 2020)

GotRice said:


> What kind of Yield are you expecting from full room of Mimosa?


25+


----------



## max420thc (May 2, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Day 24


Sweet, doing a set up using , 30 and 60 gallon container , I am surprised you are getting that much production per plant in that amount of root space, if you are getting that much you will get more production with a larger container for the roots, awesome job,


----------



## max420thc (May 2, 2020)

Yes, it can be done in eb and grow, you just have to custom make it


----------



## Renfro (May 2, 2020)

Day 15 of 12/12 in room B


----------



## Renfro (May 2, 2020)

max420thc said:


> if you are getting that much you will get more production with a larger container for the roots, awesome job,


I went from 5 gallon buckets to 10's and yield went up, I do believe that 20 would do even better.

I went to a larger size I would definitely use a tote in a tote type setup so it won't get any taller (the pot).


----------



## 1littlesoldier1 (May 4, 2020)

So did you notice anything different with the 36h of darkness you gave them or is this your first run with this strain?


----------



## Renfro (May 4, 2020)

1littlesoldier1 said:


> So did you notice anything different with the 36h of darkness you gave them or is this your first run with this strain?


They definitely stretched, I dunno really, haven't enough experience with this cut.


----------



## Renfro (May 4, 2020)

So today I did some lollipoping of the bottoms and inner bits, these made a very thick bushy amount of nodes, lots of them will never see light so they gotta go. I can't wait to see how the buddies that Teknik sent me handle that. So spending some time on my hands and knees today. My back is hating me for it but it's gotta get done. In a few days they will get some defoliation of the larger fans that are blocking out some canopy. They really packed the trellis. This strains tendency to grow straight up and the woodier stems do make her a beast to train in this setup.

Room B is getting it's first 12 hour dark period today and they will get their final trellis training tonight when the lights are on, these ones vegged a few days more than I did in room B, they were/are very difficult to get the side fill on the trellis. Gonna be a multiple cookie (edible) day for my back lol.

I will post some pictures later.


----------



## max420thc (May 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I went from 5 gallon buckets to 10's and yield went up, I do believe that 20 would do even better.
> 
> I went to a larger size I would definitely use a tote in a tote type setup so it won't get any taller (the pot).


30 gallon and you production will go up further , you could use 55 gallon barrles cut down , or animal feeding trough to keep the hieght down ,


----------



## Renfro (May 4, 2020)

Before lollipop.



After lollipop.



One done and one not (side by side)



Up-skirt about halfway into the pruning:



there was a lot of bullshit in there to cull, anything that i could pull to some light i did that with, anything else that wont get any light, even after some defoliation up top, is gone. Sometimes you can pull a branch to where it will get some light from the sides, those get their larfy nodes cut off (lollipoped). Example:



I have a 10 gallon bucket packed with larfy branches.



max420thc said:


> 30 gallon and you production will go up further


there is definitely a limit to how much medium I am willing to haul up and down. i also think that there is a sweet spot. probably plateaus at some point.

I am getting bored playing in dirt and feeling like I wanna do some hydro again. honestly if i was gonna play with changing things up, i would consider an ebb and grow type system with large capacity res and large totes for sites. Just have to use larger pumps and i would want to use good parts so it is reliable. Float switches seem to be a weak link.

I would want big plants of course but I don't like DWC because it's just too sketchy on the root rot and energy intensive with chilling. I have done it before so I know what I am missing. I think that large site flood and drain (deep flood) would be a kick ass way to do trees, provided I come up with a reliable setup.


----------



## max420thc (May 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Before lollipop.
> 
> View attachment 4554954View attachment 4554953View attachment 4554952
> 
> ...


----------



## max420thc (May 4, 2020)

In ebb and grow I use pure purlite, a billion gallons of it weighs 2 lbs or something like that, until it is wet and full of roots, it is not possible to overwater or get root rot ,


----------



## Renfro (May 4, 2020)

max420thc said:


> In ebb and grow I use pure purlite, a billion gallons of it weighs 2 lbs or something like that, until it is wet and full of roots, it is not possible to overwater or get root rot ,


Yeah I have a bunch of the large stuff from growing mushrooms lol. I would rather just let the roots hang in the air and get flooded. Then there is zero medium (except just a few LECA pellets in the small net pot).


----------



## Sif1 (May 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Before lollipop.
> 
> View attachment 4554954View attachment 4554953View attachment 4554952
> 
> ...


Looking great as usual mate.


----------



## Sif1 (May 4, 2020)

I posted this grow just after planting, Its now in flower using Coco and a flood and drain table. The strain is called Pink Plant, F....kd if I know, got it from my bro as I needed 100 clones. Don't think will use again. They are stretchy motherfuckers. The LEDs are Ecospeed LEDs, equate to about 2000w total on a 2.4m table and a 3m tent. I prefer HPS and CMH so depends on the return of this crop the decision whether to continue with LED will be made.


----------



## max420thc (May 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Yeah I have a bunch of the large stuff from growing mushrooms lol. I would rather just let the roots hang in the air and get flooded. Then there is zero medium (except just a few LECA pellets in the small net pot).


Deep water culture is great, until something goes wrong , if you are confident of 100 percent success every single time from now on, good idea, I am not that good a grower , I can guarantee 100 percent success with perlit and ebb and grow


----------



## Renfro (May 4, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> I posted this grow just after planting, Its now in flower using Coco and a flood and drain table. The strain is called Pink Plant, F....kd if I know, got it from my bro as I needed 100 clones. Don't think will use again. They are stretchy motherfuckers. The LEDs are Ecospeed LEDs, equate to about 2000w total on a 2.4m table and a 3m tent. I prefer HPS and CMH so depends on the return of this crop the decision whether to continue with LED will be made.
> 
> View attachment 4555240


You have a current pic of them? I bet they are a lot beefier now.


----------



## Renfro (May 4, 2020)

max420thc said:


> Deep water culture is great, until something goes wrong , if you are confident of 100 percent success every single time from now on, good idea, I am not that good a grower , I can guarantee 100 percent success with perlit and ebb and grow


Yeah when I did DWC the yields were staggering in my setup. I used large totes and had a high volume of nutrients in the system. I had one strain that never had a problem with DWC, Kandy Kush. When people got tired of buying that I was trying other strains and found out that many weren't as tolerant to the DWC as the Kandy Kush. I got tired of losing a plant here and there halfway through a run to root rot.


----------



## max420thc (May 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> You have a current pic of them? I bet they are a lot beefier now.


I am in California working right now, I can get a picture when I get back home,this is a project I am helping on


----------



## Sif1 (May 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> You have a current pic of them? I bet they are a lot beefier now.


That's was taken about an hour ago. They are just beginning. Time will tell Renfro. In reflection, I probably should have stretched more netting to control the canopy more.


----------



## Renfro (May 4, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> That's was taken about an hour ago. They are just beginning. Time will tell Renfro. In reflection, I probably should have stretched more netting to control the canopy more.


Netting? Do you use the string kind or the stronger plastic stuff like Hortitrellis?


----------



## Renfro (May 4, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> That's was taken about an hour ago. They are just beginning. Time will tell Renfro. In reflection, I probably should have stretched more netting to control the canopy more.


Oh it said 4/5/2020 so I just figured it was old. Better fix the date on your camera or turn off the timestamps lol.


----------



## max420thc (May 4, 2020)

Shit, I responded to sign post earlier, not yours,


----------



## Sif1 (May 5, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Oh it said 4/5/2020 so I just figured it was old. Better fix the date on your camera or turn off the timestamps lol.


Maaaaaaaaate, Downunder the timestamp, go, day, month, yr. In USA, you guys got it backwards month, day,yr. LOL. and you are still imperial. Whats going on there?LOL. And the dunny water swirls the opposite way.


----------



## Sif1 (May 5, 2020)

Had this double-sided LED laying around so thought would put to use. Renfro, these are the LED bars I suggested trying using vertical in the middle of your monsters. Just a thought.

I have noticed with LEDs the hairs begin to go brown long time before they are ready, Has anyone else noticed this? And why? Spectrum burn??? I don't know.

Note the date..lol


----------



## Renfro (May 5, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> Had this double-sided LED laying around so thought would put to use. Renfro, these are the LED bars I suggested trying using vertical in the middle of your monsters. Just a thought.
> 
> I have noticed with LEDs the hairs begin to go brown long time before they are ready, Has anyone else noticed this? And why? Spectrum burn??? I don't know.
> 
> ...


I have tried some LED up under the plants as you have in the image, I didn't notice much gain, I imagine because the light was hitting the plants from the wrong angle. I plan to try and put some of teknik's buddies in the middle of a plant, will see how that goes, two strains back to back like a big rope light lol. Christmas comes early I suppose, hanging the lights lol.

As to the brown hairs, no clue, I hadn't noticed that at all. Perhaps it's environmental?


----------



## Sif1 (May 5, 2020)

nat


Renfro said:


> I have tried some LED up under the plants as you have in the image, I didn't notice much gain, I imagine because the light was hitting the plants from the wrong angle. I plan to try and put some of teknik's buddies in the middle of a plant, will see how that goes, two strains back to back like a big rope light lol. Christmas comes early I suppose, hanging the lights lol.
> 
> As to the brown hairs, no clue, I hadn't noticed that at all. Perhaps it's environmental?


 I think if you use the LED bar vertical you may see a difference. Or atleast it may keep the inside of the plant more healthy. With the size you grow I'd try anything even though I understand you are pushing most angles to the extreme.

Brown hairs, no idea either. Different environments, same lights, same issue. F......... if I know. HPS and CMH are the best IMHO.


----------



## max420thc (May 6, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> Maaaaaaaaate, Downunder the timestamp, go, day, month, yr. In USA, you guys got it backwards month, day,yr. LOL. and you are still imperial. Whats going on there?LOL. And the dunny water swirls the opposite way.


We also drive on the wrong side of the road,


----------



## Sif1 (May 6, 2020)

max420thc said:


> We also drive on the wrong side of the road,


I lived in Cali in the 80's for 5yrs, was awesome. Accent did wonders hehe.

Just took this pic tonight of a New Zealand small owl called a Morpork. At night you hear it go, Mor pork calling to another Mor pork. Don't see them often.

Thought the red eyes be appropriate for the thread.


----------



## Powertech (May 6, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> Maaaaaaaaate, Downunder the timestamp, go, day, month, yr. In USA, you guys got it backwards month, day,yr. LOL. and you are still imperial. Whats going on there?LOL. And the dunny water swirls the opposite way.


When you are the worlds greatest influence, everybody else is doing it wrong


----------



## Sif1 (May 7, 2020)

Powertech said:


> When you are the worlds greatest influence, everybody else is doing it wrong


----------



## Renfro (May 7, 2020)

A couple shots of room B about day 20 i believe.


----------



## Gwhiliker (May 7, 2020)

im on page 55, good shit in here so far man. i wish i had enough time to sit down and read this all at once lol


----------



## Renfro (May 8, 2020)

i put the string of buddies on there when the lights were off, didnt get the picture till the lights had been on most of a day, they are already getting lost down in the stretch.


----------



## Renfro (May 8, 2020)

Gwhiliker said:


> im on page 55, good shit in here so far man. i wish i had enough time to sit down and read this all at once lol


You can tell I am a big fan of light. lol


----------



## Renfro (May 8, 2020)

I wanted to update everyone on the feed / tap water situation.

I am so far extremely pleased with the results I am getting with the tap water / adjusted feed.

Old 30 gallon RO feed:

Armor Si = 60
Calimagic = 150
Micro = 200
Grow = 200
Bloom = 250

New 30 gallon tap H2O feed:

Epsom 30 grams
M = 200
G = 200
B = 250

Si used only as a pH up as required.

I learned that adding any Si first, as is normally done with RO H2O, will cause a precipitation when adding the Grow. I am assuming this is due to the higher pH of the tap water. I found that adding the Si last solved this issue.

Mixing the nutrients with the tap H2O, sans any Si, puts me at a pH of 7.0 - 7.03. This actually worked out good since the soil pH was low, trying to crash into the 4's. Monitoring the soil pH with my Apera and Bluelab soil meters I adjusted them hard early with feeds in the 8's, and got that out of the way, then a lot of feeds in the 7.0 - 7.5 range followed to keep things between 6.5 and 6.8 at the root zone. I found that adding 2 mL per gallon of the Si would bring the pH up from 7 to around 7.5, if I wanted the pH higher than 3 ml per gallon of the Si would get me I used a little pH up (Advanced).

At first each plant was at it's own pH level. I would treat each individually after those first hard 8.0+ pH adjustment feeds. Slowly but surely they all equalized and now they get the same feed pH. Took about 10 days to get this done. I was fighting the pH crash some in the veg room too and had it pretty well lined out but when I brought them into the flowering rooms the pH started crashing again, fast. Same feed and still in a veg lighting cycle. They do start drinking more as the light intensity is brought up along with CO2 levels and temperature.

Worked like a charm, plants are beautiful in room B at day 21, no signs of deficiency, not a single burnt tip, and now I am feeding at 6.6 - 6.7 and the root zone is holding at 6.5 - 6.7. If I see it start to creep below 6.5 I hit them with a feed at 7.0 and things stay in the Goldilocks zone. Thanks to the soil pH meters I am able to keep things happy, no mystery plants that look deficient. Doing the same procedure in room A that is a few weeks behind room B, hopefully with the same results.

Definitely looking at other mediums that will have a more agreeable pH. Wasn't happy with the Pro Mix HP when I tried it (bag of bugs), wasn't happy with the Sunshine 4 (high pH) and the Berger BM6 is running low on me now. @DoubleAtotheRON is helping by testing some different mixes on his summer run, thanks buddy! I am also waiting to hear back from Berger on possibly trying their BM7 mix, I asked them what they suggest and am waiting to hear back from their more knowledgeable staff.

When I flipped them I added a little more epsom to the mix, so it's now at 1.5 grams per gallon.

At day 20 I started using some of the spare PPM overhead (I like to be around 1200 during peak flower) by adding a little more bloom to the mix. It's now at 280 ml for a 30 gallon mix, the PPM comes to 1092. I will probably take the bloom on up to 300 for peak flower as I still have room. That would put the mix at:

Epsom 45 grams
M = 200
G = 200
B = 300

Plants are drinking about every 14 hours in room B, bastards like their water. I really don't want to up size the pots because I hate hauling that much soil up and down the stairs. I do think that a switch back to hydro is in the future. Still stewing on the large site ebb and grow type system.

Probably could have given room B a few more days in veg, bu

One thing that I really don't like about the mimosa strain, it just doesn't like to spread out. It's a very "straight up" grower, crowds itself badly without a lot of work training it. Even then, the woody stems really resist training efforts. Probably gonna bust out some clones for the OCD x M15 for at least one room next round, gonna have to cut those real soon.

Well I have babbled on long enough lol.

Here are some room B images using my method seven glasses to color correct.


----------



## Gwhiliker (May 8, 2020)

holy fuck i made it! Im super interested in seeing how those tecniks work as im sure you know thats the sort of thing im looking for at the moment


----------



## Renfro (May 8, 2020)

Gwhiliker said:


> holy fuck i made it! Im super interested in seeing how those tecniks work as im sure you know thats the sort of thing im looking for at the moment


Well there are some other threads if you search for Buddys or buddies you can find them I am sure. He sent some to several growers to test. I am sure my test is less than ideal to show how good they really are as the orientation is haphazard lol. They are getting light to areas that wouldn't otherwise and there are plenty of plants to compare those insides to.


----------



## Bignutes (May 8, 2020)

SIPS are proving to be time saving thus far, not sure if that would keep you in the soil game, guys say it's hydro growth in soil. I haven't watered in 10 days but fighting ph at first now looking healthy as I put my res to 4.6 until plants greened up, now relaxed it at 5.2. Going this route with a constant water rez ph I have to admit a soil ph probe would be really useful as the frequency of waterings is so low that it doesn't give me feedback every few days. I was concerned about lanky growth with sips but everything but the gg4 has beefy stalks.


----------



## Airwalker16 (May 9, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I wanted to update everyone on the feed / tap water situation.
> 
> I am so far extremely pleased with the results I am getting with the tap water / adjusted feed.
> 
> ...


How does your setup get water? Is it through those hoses on the floors? Is that like a double tote soil grow with a bottom tote to fill with water for a wicking type feed?


----------



## Nizza (May 9, 2020)

Airwalker16 said:


> How does your setup get water? Is it through those hoses on the floors? Is that like a double tote soil grow with a bottom tote to fill with water for a wicking type feed?


I think those are 2 buckets so the bottom catches the runoff , and they all drain down together to keep the floor clean and not sure the watering technique maybe he waters with this thingy




__





Portable nutrient feed tank


I built this mainly for flushing since I use tap water for that and I don't want to fill up 5 gallon buckets one at a time and pH adjust them all lol. I used a folding cart I had sitting around and put a 30 gallon drum on it. I went ahead and put it on a couple cinder blocks since the cart is...



www.rollitup.org





yeah I gotta say I can't wait to get a house to get on a small scale of whats going on in here!


----------



## Renfro (May 9, 2020)

Drain to waste via floor drain. I water them manually.


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## Sif1 (May 9, 2020)

Renfro said:


> i put the string of buddies on there when the lights were off, didnt get the picture till the lights had been on most of a day, they are already getting lost down in the stretch.


Be interesting to see if there's a difference?


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## Airwalker16 (May 9, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Drain to waste via floor drain. I water them manually.


Ya, that is so cool man. This thread be TLDR, what media you usin?


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## Sif1 (May 15, 2020)

Adive needed for growroom carbon filters.

Size is 13m long , 8m wide, 5 m H. 500m³= 17657.33ft³ 

!00*600w lights, 

5 * 20L per sq/m= approx 350 plants. Coco, drain to waste.

What I need to know is how many extraction fans and carbon filters I will need. I can get Mountain Air here wholesale.

Appreciate all advice, Especially that of Guru Renfro.


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## Airwalker16 (May 15, 2020)

2 of the largest sizes they offer in 10" and 2 10" fans will get you there.
10"x36/48"


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## Sif1 (May 15, 2020)

Airwalker16 said:


> 2 of the largest sizes they offer in 10" and 2 10" fans will get you there.
> 10"x36/48"


You think only two?


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## Airwalker16 (May 15, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> You think only two?


I mean if you can get them wholesale, buy as many as you can possibly afford, honestly. You'll need to change them every year or two. If after you install 2 and you find its not effective, add another one...or two! You actually might want to get 12"fans because using a speed controller on a bigger fan can help you dial in the perfect air flow you need and you might be able to even "Y" pipe the end and put 2, 10" filters, on a single 12" fan.


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## Airwalker16 (May 15, 2020)

I'd imagine if you learn up all about filters and go in to your conversation armed with knowledge, you can probably get MASSIVE discounts in an order of 10 or 20 of their largest sizes. Like 50% type massive


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## Sif1 (May 15, 2020)

Airwalker16 said:


> I'd imagine if you learn up all about filters and go in to your conversation armed with knowledge, you can probably get MASSIVE discounts in an order of 10 or 20 of their largest sizes. Like 50% type massive


I know quite a bit about filters. Its more to do with the volume of air movement for the size of the room. Its a pretty larget room. And we can not have smell leakage at all.

Size is 13m long , 8m wide, 5 m H. 500m³= 17657.33ft³


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## GrassBurner (May 15, 2020)

Now that is a proper man cave. Killer setup, looks like you've got things dialed in.


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## Renfro (May 15, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> !00*600w lights,


So I am getting this right, 100 x 600 watt HPS?

What are your ambient temperatures running (outdoor)?



Sif1 said:


> Size is 13m long , 8m wide, 5 m H. 500m³= 17657.33ft³


I get 520 cubic meters and 18363 cubic feet.

I get 53 watts per square foot, thats acceptable, I bet you are actually closer to 60 since you probably have some floor space dedicated to other stuff.

So is there going to be any duct work associated with the fans?

Filters?

Are they to be intake or exhaust or push pull? I know you mentioned extraction fans but I might be tempted to use intake and extraction on a push pull arrangement. Is odor control a critical thing? If so then perhaps plan for scrubbers in the space and carbon filters on the exhaust using a short connection.

One of the complicating factors is intake filters, I would like to use 16 inch blowers on the intake to limit the number of intakes but the dust shrooms max out at 12 inch. I suppose you could use a 16x12x12 wye and split the flow to two dust shrooms...

If your air is like mine (dry as fuck) then thats a good thing. If it's not then you have a problem, you need to cool a 60,000 watt room, you start blowing in wet air (maybe it's raining outside) then your humidity spikes. Even with dry air you have to watch the weather and see when the humidity may jump on you and implement whatever solution you have for that, dunno what it could be sans AC, dehueys and CO2.


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## 1littlesoldier1 (May 15, 2020)

Renfro, I am using Promix HP for my mothers and ph of my run off is at 6.2. If I try to go up, they don't seem to like it so I am wondering how every plant you grew were doing stellar with a ph of 6.5-6.8. I was told that if there is no organic/amendement in your soiless mix then its considered hydro which prefers a ph between 5.8-6.2 Do you have any theory? lol


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## Airwalker16 (May 16, 2020)

1littlesoldier1 said:


> Renfro, I am using Promix HP for my mothers and ph of my run off is at 6.2. If I try to go up, they don't seem to like it so I am wondering how every plant you grew were doing stellar with a ph of 6.5-6.8. I was told that if there is no organic/amendement in your soiless mix then its considered hydro which prefers a ph between 5.8-6.2 Do you have any theory? lol


No theory. Just data.
There are absolutely certain nutrients and micros, that are more easily uptaken and converted into photosynthesis energy. I'm no expert in which ones and where, But some do better closer to 5.5 while others at 6.7.


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## Renfro (May 16, 2020)

1littlesoldier1 said:


> Renfro, I am using Promix HP for my mothers and ph of my run off is at 6.2. If I try to go up, they don't seem to like it so I am wondering how every plant you grew were doing stellar with a ph of 6.5-6.8. I was told that if there is no organic/amendement in your soiless mix then its considered hydro which prefers a ph between 5.8-6.2 Do you have any theory? lol


TBH you gotta go with what works for you. For example when I did a coco run I ended up having to run a higher pH than the rules suggest. Just listen to the plants and let them tell you what they like. The main reason I don't consider a peat based soiless mix to be hydro is the buffering capability of the medium. Consider it whatever you want, doesn't matter. All that matters is the plants are thriving. Make sure they have enough but not too much of the various elements and if you see issues then it's pH.


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## Dividedsky (May 16, 2020)

This is the best grow journal on riu. Renfro kicks some solid easy to understand info. I referenced this journal to friends doing bigger commercial size grows. Hats off to you man, keep killing it and doing your thing.


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## Dividedsky (May 16, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> Adive needed for growroom carbon filters.
> 
> Size is 13m long , 8m wide, 5 m H. 500m³= 17657.33ft³
> 
> ...


60,000w of hid- holy shit dude! Please post a grow journal.


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## Sif1 (May 16, 2020)

Renfro said:


> So I am getting this right, 100 x 600 watt HPS?
> 
> What are your ambient temperatures running (outdoor)?
> 
> ...


Hi Renfro,

Really appreciate your reply so will try and answer your questions best I can.

We are now in winter and temps are falling. Low 5.5c to a high of 12 c. Current humidity 83% 9.14am


The construction of the shed is freezer panels as it has been used as cold storage.The whole building is a building within a building. This is going to be a one run grow.

The Intake can be a is roller door with one or two big fans blowing through it? From the nursery. Remember I have 5m about 15feet height to play with which is a bonus.

100 x 600 watt HPS? YES

Is odor control a critical thing ? YES. most critical.

Are they to be intake or exhaust or push pull? I know you mentioned extraction fans but I might be tempted to use intake and extraction on a push pull arrangement? Can you explain this arrangement please?

Won't use C02 on this one.


Even with dry air you have to watch the weather and see when the humidity may jump on you and implement whatever solution you have for that, dunno what it could be sans AC, dehueys and CO2.
[/QUOTE] As it was a cool storage we could possibly use the aircon. 

I was thinking blowing a shitload from the Nursery area into the growroom. There won't be any organic material within that area once grow room is full. It will be extremely clean.

Then having say 4 10inch fans pulling through 4 big carbon filters then ducting to HS1 room an ducting from that using another 10 carbon filter/ fan out to the processing room where a scrubber will clean it again.

Or can I just put all the fans and filters into HS1 and pull the air through ducting and out the carbon filter in that room and then sent to processing room.. Scrubbers in HS2 also.

Plus using about 30 circulating fans in the growroom?

I have attached a small plan so you can see.


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## Sif1 (May 16, 2020)

At Renbro, that's your kiwi name. Everyone here is Bro. If this comes off I will gladly shout you and your girl a visit to NZ. Not for just helping me but in appreciation of a great thread


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## Renfro (May 16, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> We are now in winter and temps are falling. Low 5.5c to a high of 12 c. Current humidity 83% 9.14am


83% sounds bad but it's cold air so thats super dry. Blow that in to cool your flowering room and it will drop the RH% for you. For example 5c at 85% has 4.59 grams of water per kilogram of air. Warm that air up to 80F and it's at 20% RH. The "relative" in relative humidity is a big deal.

What about summers? What do the numbers run then? Don't wanna be stuck having to vent more since the air is warmer outside and end up with the humidity too high.

In the current situation with the cold dry air, it won't take nearly as much air exchange to cool the room, in fact a system sized for summer would probably only run a few minutes to drop the room temperature and then shut down.

Any type of vented grow is a balancing act because of the ambient temp / RH% variables. Sometimes you can't get good numbers because the outside air is too hot or too humid. Running at night is obviously helpful for the heat but could actually make the RH% number worse.

If I was setting up such an endeavor, and the ambient absolute humidity # is generally low I would want two means of controlling the environment. The ability to run sealed/co2/dehumidification and AC as well as the ability to run vented when the ambient allows it to save money and be a backup for the AC. This is how I am setup because the air is so dry here in Colorado. If I had humid outside air in the warm times then I wouldn't even bother with the venting option and just go sealed.

Right now I have my flowering rooms running with AC and CO2, dehu. But I sometimes just turn off the dehu if the air is dry outside and temps are workable, then if the RH% hits 50 the room vents down to 40% and then the CO2 generator kicks back on... So I am using the intake blower as a dehumidifier. Lest nite, this AM the ambient RH% was too high so I disabled the venting and turned the dehumidifier on until the #'s went down this afternoon.

So really unless you wanna be dicking around with the setup all the time, you want sealed, AC, Dehu and CO2.

Note, I run intake fans and the exhaust is passive as I don't need negative pressure for odor control (I run scrubbers).

The ONLY reason that I can really run with venting is the very low ambient absolute humidity numbers that I have 97% of the time AND I have AC/dehu/CO2 for times that the humidity is too high.

This neat chart lets you see the RH% changes from temp.



So it just rained outside and we take outside air thats at say 15c and 95% RH (10.11 g/kg absolute) and blow it into your room thats sitting at say 27c and that air is at 45% ish. Does that make sense? So now we have 18c / 95% air going into the room would be more like 55% (not good for flower cooling). Lots of fuckery if you don't go sealed.

I hope all that helps. It's not a simple thing and with an op your size you better have really low ambient absolute humidity numbers all the time. Would suck to get 7 weeks into flower, have big ass buds going, rainy season hits and the ventilation you rely on for cooling is pumping in so much added moisture that you get bud rot. Know that a dehumidifier or humidifier can't keep up with a ventilation system designed to cool 60kW, may as well set it outside and run it lol.


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## Renfro (May 16, 2020)

One way to go is have the sealed system with AC for summer use and the ventilation for winter.

If that was my room I would probably aim for 20 tons. Several large Quest dehueys, a CO2 generator and call it done.

EDIT: Probably a little more than 20 tons.


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## Sif1 (May 16, 2020)

Renfro said:


> One way to go is have the sealed system with AC for summer use and the ventilation for winter.
> 
> If that was my room I would probably aim for 20 tons. Several large Quest dehueys, a CO2 generator and call it done.
> 
> EDIT: Probably a little more than 20 tons.


Ok, So I really need a dehu's that will run up to 25tons. Right the search is on. Should be able to source them here. Time window is important.

Must be sealed also. Shit I've under estimated this, But can be sorted.

Summer can run from 15 to 33c with 100%r/h

You better have really low ambient absolute humidity numbers all the time.? Where do I need to be at consistently?


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## Renfro (May 16, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> So I really need a dehu's that will run up to 25tons


AC at 20+ tons

The dehues thats another matter.


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## Sif1 (May 16, 2020)

Dividedsky said:


> 60,000w of hid- holy shit dude! Please post a grow journal.


Will do once running. Want this to be happening within 3 weeks from now. Pressure is on. Thinking 5 plants per sq/m and I'll hand water...lol, Run to waste.


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## Sif1 (May 17, 2020)

@Renfro, Thanks for so much valuable info. I've had to read it several times to begin understanding it.


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## Dividedsky (May 17, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> Will do once running. Want this to be happening within 3 weeks from now. Pressure is on. Thinking 5 plants per sq/m and I'll hand water...lol, Run to waste.


Nice, hey I was going to say what was mentioned above and just run a sealed room with proper A/C. It would probably save you a lot of headaches.


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## Badbillybuds (May 17, 2020)

This is priceless to me. I can't thank you enough.


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## Sif1 (May 18, 2020)

Dividedsky said:


> Nice, hey I was going to say what was mentioned above and just run a sealed room with proper A/C. It would probably save you a lot of headaches.


Thinking that's the best. What Renbro says goes. Plus add 6 scrubbers could be the way. Have a meeting later this week and will see what it entails to get sorted, Currently have the 3phase being sorted.


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## Airwalker16 (May 18, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> Thinking that's the best. What Renbro says goes. Plus add 6 scrubbers could be the way. Have a meeting later this week and will see what it entails to get sorted, Currently have the 3phase being sorted.


A/C in a SEALED room where you exhaust inky during lights off when plants don't need co2, you'd wanna use mini splits. Not actual AC units.


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## Airwalker16 (May 18, 2020)

But reading back, you won't be using co2, so a Sealed Run is off the table completely. Co2 will be depleted in a matter of minutes and will keep to be replenished with fresh, outside air. So regular AC is going to be needed, NOT minisplits.
You don't need carbon filters necessarily on intakes, but make sure you have some kind of decent filtration on your intake as well.


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## Dividedsky (May 18, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> Thinking that's the best. What Renbro says goes. Plus add 6 scrubbers could be the way. Have a meeting later this week and will see what it entails to get sorted, Currently have the 3phase being sorted.


I added a 2 ton mini split to my grow room and sealed it(not even close to the size yours is going to be) and it was the best decision I've made. That's the best part is you can just have inline fans and carbon filter blowing air around inside room. Dehus are a must though.


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## Sif1 (May 18, 2020)

Dividedsky said:


> I added a 2 ton mini split to my grow room and sealed it(not even close to the size yours is going to be) and it was the best decision I've made. That's the best part is you can just have inline fans and carbon filter blowing air around inside room. Dehus are a must though.


When I was in Australia we were using airconditioners. I don't think we even had fresh air pumping in. Everything grew well even through 40c summers. As Renfro said, couple of 16inch intakes and will add sever carbon filters. Smell has to be controlled. At have the electrician in doing the wiring, all 3 phase. For the strain I'm thinking of mostly Bruce Banner. I have an excellent pheno , even in SOG i have got 3oz from one. plant. which is good imho. Plus not alot of trimming, not so susceptible to mold. For this crop I'm going to make 2* 1000l tanks of nutrients. Would prefer GH, but need to import, so the option's are Canna, House n Garden, Emerald harvest, Perhaps Green Plant, but need to import from Australia. Also, for this one crop I will hand water with wand from the tanks and run to waste. Any suggestion's on Nuts are welcome. Thanks for all the replies also, appreciated.


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## Gwhiliker (Jun 9, 2020)

how are the girls doin?


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## Ebenezer Kong (Jun 23, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Right now I have my flowering rooms running with AC and CO2, dehu. But I sometimes just turn off the dehu if the air is dry outside and temps are workable, then if the RH% hits 50 the room vents down to 40% and then the CO2 generator kicks back on... So I am using the intake blower as a dehumidifier. Lest nite, this AM the ambient RH% was too high so I disabled the venting and turned the dehumidifier on until the #'s went down this afternoon.


Do you “exhaust” the heat produced by the dehumidifier into a lung room? I guess I’ve never found a clear answer about that aspect of a sealed room. In a truly sealed room I assume that the heat produces by the dehumidifier just gets handled by the mini split? I’m struggling with this as I’m building out my space and deciding where to place everything. Love your thread, I still have so much to catch up on! Thanks for sharing with us all


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## Renfro (Jun 23, 2020)

Ebenezer Kong said:


> Do you “exhaust” the heat produced by the dehumidifier into a lung room?


The AC unit picks up any heat loads from dehumidifiers, CO2 generators... Exhausting would cause air to come in to replace it, that would negate the dehumidification if the ambient RH% is higher than your target.


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## Renfro (Jun 23, 2020)

Gwhiliker said:


> how are the girls doin?


They are good, just got done chopping Room B yesterday. Looks like 24 - 26 pounds, will know more when it's dried and trimmed. That mimosa makes big, dense logs. Heavy plant.


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## Renfro (Jun 23, 2020)

Finished chopping down room B on Tuesday. Very dense and heavy nugs. Estimate a 24 - 26 pound 6 plant room with the mimosa. I didn't take many pics but here is a few.

A room shot, an impressive side nug from a row end (side lighting rules).


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## Renfro (Jun 23, 2020)

Some of the mimosa in the trim bin. It's still a little moist.


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## Ebenezer Kong (Jun 23, 2020)

Renfro said:


> The AC unit picks up any heat loads from dehumidifiers, CO2 generators... Exhausting would cause air to come in to replace it, that would negate the dehumidification if the ambient RH% is higher than your target.


I’m moving out of tents and into a sealed room but building it around an active grow. It’s all been speculation thus far so getting these answers is gold. You definitely saved me from cutting unneeded holes in soon to be built walls. Thank you!


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## Renfro (Jun 23, 2020)

I stuck some clones in the tent because I had extras and I was bored. I figured I would see how they do without the RO water running flood and drain. So far so good about a week into flower. I will do my best to run the reservoir without change outs. The only issue I have is the need to add a few mL of pH down to the reservoir each day as the pH rises a few points each dark cycle when the timed float valve tops off the res. No calmag just epsom and GH trio.


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## Thundercat (Jun 23, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I stuck some clones in the tent because I had extras and I was bored. I figured I would see how they do without the RO water running flood and drain. So far so good about a week into flower. I will do my best to run the reservoir without change outs. The only issue I have is the need to add a few mL of pH down to the reservoir each day as the pH rises a few points each dark cycle when the timed float valve tops off the res. No calmag just epsom and GH trio.


I ran my flood and drain on tap water for years no issue, I’m sure you’ll be fine.


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## Dividedsky (Jun 24, 2020)

Renfro- got my sensibo. Haha didn't know they were so cheap, wish I got this thing a year ago...was so easy to setup to minisplit, definitely puts me at ease.


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## Renfro (Jun 24, 2020)

About the only negative thing I have heard about them is that if the internet goes out it gets stuck in the mode the AC was set to when the internet went out.


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## Dividedsky (Jun 24, 2020)

Renfro said:


> About the only negative thing I have heard about them is that if the internet goes out it gets stuck in the mode the AC was set to when the internet went out.


Ya luckily my internet is pretty good, doesn't go out much, occasionally won't work when I'm on phone but very rare., next thing I need to get is a back up generator since I have a generator side port that can power some of my electrical box circuits, thus powering my grow room if need be.


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## Renfro (Jul 4, 2020)

Just a few pics that I took today. The extra clones I stuck in the tent I had totally forgotten about for a couple weeks lol. They surprised me though and didn't seem at all bothered. PPM had dropped from about 1200 to 800 and they were definitely getting to the point where they needed a bump. They are on day 20 of 12/12. I gave them a light lolipopping, bumped the PPM, and not much else. These have been running on tap water BTW. Float valve auto top off.



The flowering room pics are room A, it's about 2 - 4 days out from chop on the Mimosa. She's sticky, stinky and dense. A good buddy I sent this clone to said he is really impressed with her terpene profile. She is a special kinda stinky for sure.


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## Renfro (Jul 4, 2020)

Oh yeah and I have been rotating the AirROS unit in my rooms and really love it. Cranking the RH% and not worrying about mold or mildew. The odor control is top notch and it doesn't harm the terpenes on your flower, the smell returns within a few hours after moving the AirROS to another room. So far I am very impressed with this thing. It's not even running on full blast:


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## Keesje (Jul 4, 2020)

Dividedsky said:


> I added a 2 ton mini split to my grow room and sealed it(not even close to the size yours is going to be) and it was the best decision I've made. That's the best part is you can just have inline fans and carbon filter blowing air around inside room. Dehus are a must though.


Do you also use a CO2 generator/bottles?


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## Renfro (Jul 5, 2020)

So FOOP sent me some free stuff to mess with. Their cloning gel and some of their nutrients and sweetener. I won't be messing with the nutrients, I don't see myself getting very far with quart bottles anyway. I am however interested in testing their claims on their cloning sauce. Their claims are "roots in 5 days" lol yeah right. I am from Missouri so I gotta see it to believe it.

So I didn't need clones for anything but I took 6 divine gelato #3 cuts and 3 got the FOOP and 3 got the Clonex Gel that I normally use. I cut them to be as identical as possible and they are in the same domed tray stuck in rapid rooter plugs. So they are getting the same treatment. I dipped the cuts in my usual vitagrow antiwilt. Each clone is labeled / dated and I am writing the date I first see a root on each cutting, checking them a couple times a day.

It's not a big experiment with a lot of clones but I figured if there was something obvious I could look into it more, no point is wasting a bunch of rapid rooters when I don't need the clones presently.

So the cuts were taken at 9 PM on June 26th. The first one popped a root on the July 4th (a clonex cut). The pictures are from when they were cut on 6/26/2020.


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## Keesje (Jul 5, 2020)

So, no roots in 5 days as they claimed?


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## Renfro (Jul 5, 2020)

Keesje said:


> So, no roots in 5 days as they claimed?


No sir.


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## Renfro (Jul 5, 2020)

I could see it taking an extra day or two for the roots to show outside the rapid rooter plug but yeah we are like 8 days in and only a single clonex cut has shown signs.


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## Keesje (Jul 5, 2020)

How is it possible?
Someone comes up with a new product and claims how fantastic it is.
And it turns out, it is not!
This never happens in the growing scene!


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## Renfro (Jul 6, 2020)

Keesje said:


> How is it possible?
> Someone comes up with a new product and claims how fantastic it is.
> And it turns out, it is not!
> This never happens in the growing scene!


Well to make things interesting one more cut popped roots out of the rapid rooter on 7/5 and it was a FOOP treated cut so now I have one each. 4 cuts still have yet to show roots.


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## Thundercat (Jul 6, 2020)

Yeah my boss had the foop sample pack too. I love that they don’t tell you what’s in the bottles at all, lol. Just a basic npk ratio.


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## Renfro (Jul 6, 2020)

Thundercat said:


> Yeah my boss had the foop sample pack too. I love that they don’t tell you what’s in the bottles at all, lol. Just a basic npk ratio.


I think it's mostly fish poop based lol


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## thumper60 (Jul 6, 2020)

Renfro said:


> No sir.


I have seen strains that take 7 days an I have seen strains that take 21 days. Average for me is12 days if they claim any thing will have roots in 5 days you no its BS


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## Keesje (Jul 6, 2020)

I read a lot of blabla about Aloe Vera.
But I guess it is mostly a high concentrate of IBA.
0.5% instead of 0.25%.


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## Dividedsky (Jul 6, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I could see it taking an extra day or two for the roots to show outside the rapid rooter plug but yeah we are like 8 days in and only a single clonex cut has shown signs.


How do you like the rapid rooters? I think I'm going to take cuts and put them into those next time as a backup method to my aerocloner and bubble cloner after a disastrous run taking cuts into my new bubble cloner. I lost most of the cuts from what I think was the water getting to warm. Never has happened before. Was a huge bummer cause I lost some really good genetics from seed plants, dvg- purple jellato,thug pug- black cherry pie breath and thugs breath. So thinking about always taking a 2nd and 3rd back up cuts into soil or rapid rooter/root plugs from here on out, just in case. And when running the new big bubble cloner keeping a 15min on/off timer.


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## Renfro (Jul 6, 2020)

Dividedsky said:


> How do you like the rapid rooters? I think I'm going to take cuts and put them into those next time as a backup method to my aerocloner and bubble cloner after a disastrous run taking cuts into my new bubble cloner. I lost most of the cuts from what I think was the water getting to warm. Never has happened before. Was a huge bummer cause I lost some really good genetics from seed plants, dvg- purple jellato,thug pug- black cherry pie breath and thugs breath. So thinking about always taking a 2nd and 3rd back up cuts into soil or rapid rooter/root plugs from here on out, just in case. And when running the new big bubble cloner keeping a 15min on/off timer.


I been using rapid rooters since 2003 and love them. Root Riot plugs aren't as good BTW.


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## Renfro (Jul 6, 2020)

So room B ended up at just a few ounces over 23 units. Not as much as I had hoped but not bad considering the Mimosa won't get wide for me like the Glue does.


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## Dividedsky (Jul 6, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I been using rapid rooters since 2003 and love them. Root Riot plugs aren't as good BTW.


Nice good to know...thanks man!


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## Renfro (Jul 7, 2020)

So on the FOOP clone gel test. Had 3 more with roots this AM. Now only one cut (FOOP) remains without roots. I don't think the FOOP is any better than the clonex, if anything the Clonex performed a little better IMO.


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## Bigdaddy76 (Jul 7, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I just found a jar from a few harvests ago. It was some Juicy Fruit bud that I had water cured in cold RO water for 48 hours, re-dried, jarred and forgot about. The water during the cure was changed out once at 24 hours of soak.
> I thought water curing eliminated smells?
> WOW. Totally smells like juicy fruit gum, exactly. Taste is the same. Best tasting fruit strain I have ever smoked. Hits super smooth. Take massive bong rips and immediately feel the sativa "eye". Buzz is so clear and energetic. I took a pic with a tiny nug of gg4 next to it. The water cure takes all the chlorophyll out so it leaves the bud brown, like curing to the max. Makes for such a smooth hit with pure terpene goodness.
> 
> View attachment 4329930


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## Renfro (Jul 7, 2020)

I didn't get your message.?.


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## 2com (Jul 7, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I been using rapid rooters since 2003 and love them. Root Riot plugs aren't as good BTW.


What's the difference? The binder used?
I actually thought one of'em was coco+binder, but just checked and both are peat+binder.


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## Renfro (Jul 7, 2020)

2com said:


> What's the difference? The binder used?
> I actually thought one of'em was coco+binder, but just checked and both are peat+binder.


Never looked into it, they just didn't perform as well. I rarely have a cut fail to root with rapid rooters. Like maybe one out of 200 or something like that. With the root riot's I had less success.


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## Bigdaddy76 (Jul 7, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I didn't get your message.?.


I thought water curing eliminated smells? Sorry, that’s an old post of yours about water curing, but that’s what I’ve always read. I’m currently reading this whole thread and am on page 51. I’ll comment again when I catch up to current. Pure awesomeness!


----------



## Renfro (Jul 7, 2020)

Bigdaddy76 said:


> I thought water curing eliminated smells? Sorry, that’s an old post of yours about water curing, but that’s what I’ve always read. I’m currently reading this whole thread and am on page 51. I’ll comment again when I catch up to current. Pure awesomeness!


I suppose the terpenes aren't water soluble so much.


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## Renfro (Jul 7, 2020)

Bigdaddy76 said:


> I’ll comment again when I catch up to current.


All good brother, great to have you along for the ride. Feel free to jump in anytime, my thread is open to all and I have no problem with people hitting me up with questions even if off topic. It's a free-for-all thread, well except the weed that is lol.


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## Bigdaddy76 (Jul 8, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I suppose the terpenes aren't water soluble so much.


Aren’t terpenes connected to smell? Like smoke smells similar to taste. Figured if it’s eliminating smell, it somehow neutralized terps. I know people who water cure, so they can smoke in public, without people really knowing.


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## Renfro (Jul 8, 2020)

Bigdaddy76 said:


> Figured if it’s eliminating smell,


Water curing eliminates smell? I don't think so because it sure didn't happen in my case. Terpenes are not very water soluble.


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## Bigdaddy76 (Jul 8, 2020)

You’ve inspired me to invest in side lighting, as soon as I get more power ran to my shop, because I’m maxed out now, I’m going to add a shit load of side lighting to my flower room 8’x16’x8’, but all LED. Currently I have 3 Black Dog Phytomax2 1000’s and one 800, on lightrails. I’d like to buy 10-12 Alibaba, knock off lights, and line my walls. They are actually supposed to be pretty damn good and have the new tech. Especially for price. If I didn’t need so many, I’d go with a more expensive lights if I didn’t need so many. Just hope my split would keep up with the heat cause I just bought it before I read about your side lighting. Lol


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## Renfro (Jul 8, 2020)

Bigdaddy76 said:


> Just hope my split would keep up with the heat cause I just bought it before I read about your side lighting. Lol


Well do the math and see what it can handle. You can also put the side lighting on a high temperature shutoff, this will prevent the temperatures from getting out of hand. This is how I run my rooms, so in the event the AC shits a brick or just isn't keeping up the side lighting will kick off, wait for them room to cool down, then wait an additional delay setting and kick back on. I also have my autopilot day temp set to a little higher than the AC should hold and plugged in my intake blowers to the cooling port. If the room gets too warm the controller stops CO2 enrichment and starts the intake blowers. With these two things in play I never have to worry about cooking a room when I am not watching.


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## Bigdaddy76 (Jul 8, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Well do the math and see what it can handle. You can also put the side lighting on a high temperature shutoff, this will prevent the temperatures from getting out of hand. This is how I run my rooms, so in the event the AC shits a brick or just isn't keeping up the side lighting will kick off, wait for them room to cool down, then wait an additional delay setting and kick back on. I also have my autopilot day temp set to a little higher than the AC should hold and plugged in my intake blowers to the cooling port. If the room gets too warm the controller stops CO2 enrichment and starts the intake blowers. With these two things in play I never have to worry about cooking a room when I am not watching.


I just put in a Diakin 12000 BTU.


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## Keesje (Jul 8, 2020)

@Renfro 
Do you also use dehumidifiers, and if so, how many watts do they pull and how much water do they take out of the room in 24 hours?


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## Renfro (Jul 9, 2020)

Keesje said:


> @Renfro
> Do you also use dehumidifiers, and if so, how many watts do they pull and how much water do they take out of the room in 24 hours?


I do, a lot and I dunno lol


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## Keesje (Jul 9, 2020)

I had a discussion on another forum.
The guy said that they use so many watts (like 500 or more, with 220 volts) and then do only about 30 tot 40 liters (10 gallons) per 24 hour.


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## Renfro (Jul 9, 2020)

Keesje said:


> I had a discussion on another forum.
> The guy said that they use so many watts (like 500 or more, with 220 volts) and then do only about 30 tot 40 liters (10 gallons) per 24 hour.


Well a unit that small wouldn't use 240 volt power here in the US. A 40 pint unit is the smallest they make I think. 500 watts could be about right. Dehumidifiers are basically small AC units with the condenser coil located indoors. I have a Quest dual 205 that requires a dedicated 20 amp 120 volt feed, above that their line goes to 240 volt. It pulls 13.2 amps at 120 volts (1584 watts) and is rated at 205 pints per day. Of course air temperature and humidity have a lot to do with how much it will actually pull. It is ran to a floor drain so I dunno how much it pulls other than to say "enough". lol


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## Renfro (Jul 9, 2020)

I run my swamp coolers a lot as the ambient RH% is very low here, usually in the 20's, the dehus are for later flowering mostly.


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## Renfro (Jul 9, 2020)

So here are some shots I took of the tent yesterday. Did some more extensive lollipopping on them.

There are:

2 - GG4
3 - Mimosa
3 - OCD x M15
4 - Divine Gelato #3

I am surprised how even the canopy came out with these strains.


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## 2com (Jul 10, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Well a unit that small wouldn't use 240 volt power here in the US. A 40 pint unit is the smallest they make I think. 500 watts could be about right. Dehumidifiers are basically small AC units with the condenser coil located indoors. I have a Quest dual 205 that requires a dedicated 20 amp 120 volt feed, above that their line goes to 240 volt. It pulls 13.2 amps at 120 volts (1584 watts) and is rated at 205 pints per day. Of course air temperature and humidity have a lot to do with how much it will actually pull. It is ran to a floor drain so I dunno how much it pulls other than to say "enough". lol


I was watching some consumer (products) review channel the other week. It was really informative, I learned somethings about portable ac's that I misunderstood before (I know they're shit in general). But anyways, it mentioned that the "conditions" that are used as standard to test these devices were changed (somewhat recently), for example the base temp and rh they start testing from was changed. This changed the ratings of, what I'd think, is basically all dehumidifiers. So a 70pint is not a 50pint, a 60pint is now a 40pint - something like this, and it's largely do to them testing/rating at a colder base temp than before (for homes, basements, etc.).

Thought I'd throw that out for anyone.


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## Bigdaddy76 (Jul 10, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Quality is my main goal, then yield is a close second. My girl does the trim. She is pretty fast, way faster than me. We have a T4 trimming machine but it doesn't please me. I think trimming machines are best left to outdoor growers with massive yields, but even then who wants to beat up their pretty nugs in a machine?
> 
> 
> Thanks bro. She is doing much better now. I am glad to have her home. She went right to work. She was bored AF from being in the hospital and she is normally on the move getting stuff done.


I think I get the same thing your girl had, a few times a year, for the last 10 years or so. However, I’ve never been to doctor about it. The longest I’ve been sick was 2 weeks, but normally it’s around 3 days. Hot showers are the only things that makes me feel better. Only problem is, I run out of hot water after a hour and it takes a hour to reheat. Luckily I have a few rentals next door, to my house. I rent one to my sons uncle and I can go to his shower. So I’ll go back and forth all day. I need to have my gas powered, instant hot water heater installed and I’ll never run out of hot water. It’d make being sick a lot easier. Hope she doesn’t get it very often. Maybe she doesn’t feel like a shower but she should at least try. Good chance she’ll feel better, while in hot ass shower. For me, it has to be super hot.


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## 2com (Jul 10, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Water curing eliminates smell? I don't think so because it sure didn't happen in my case. Terpenes are not very water soluble.


I was wondering about this recently. When bubble hash is made, the waster can be visibly colored (golden, green, purple, etc) and it smells pretty fragrant. I've heard some people reference that they drink it, chilled, after making bubble (clean, "organic" growers anyway), and the smells/flavors it has.
If some terpenes are volatile at room/ambient temp, it seems reasonable that some would be lost in water - at least when agitated during hash making?


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## Renfro (Jul 10, 2020)

Bigdaddy76 said:


> I think I get the same thing your girl had, a few times a year, for the last 10 years or so. However, I’ve never been to doctor about it. The longest I’ve been sick was 2 weeks, but normally it’s around 3 days. Hot showers are the only things that makes me feel better. Only problem is, I run out of hot water after a hour and it takes a hour to reheat. Luckily I have a few rentals next door, to my house. I rent one to my sons uncle and I can go to his shower. So I’ll go back and forth all day. I need to have my gas powered, instant hot water heater installed and I’ll never run out of hot water. It’d make being sick a lot easier. Hope she doesn’t get it very often. Maybe she doesn’t feel like a shower but she should at least try. Good chance she’ll feel better, while in hot ass shower. For me, it has to be super hot.


They figured out why she is always feeling like garbage. Cirrhosis of the liver. So she won't be getting better. They have her on lasiks pills to help with the ascites. Sad. She is only 40 and had finally listened to me and stopped drinking last winter (she was the heaviest drinker I ever met).



2com said:


> I was wondering about this recently. When bubble hash is made, the waster can be visibly colored (golden, green, purple, etc) and it smells pretty fragrant. I've heard some people reference that they drink it, chilled, after making bubble (clean, "organic" growers anyway), and the smells/flavors it has.
> If some terpenes are volatile at room/ambient temp, it seems reasonable that some would be lost in water - at least when agitated during hash making?


I think that some terpenes are more water soluble than others probably.


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## Bigdaddy76 (Jul 11, 2020)

*Renfro, if you’re going to be freezing everything and making rosin, make sure harvest is in deep freeze, within 45 minutes of being chopped. Yields go down if you wait any longer. Also don’t stack bags in freezer. Have enough deep freeze freezers, you don’t need to stack. This is all info from my boy, who makes high end rosin for a living. He’s getting $16000/lb black market and then has 502 for legit side of business. He sets medical card people rooms up, with his strains, to grow for his black market rosin business. They average $5000-$5500 a 1000w light, growing for him. For harvest, he sends people over to chop it, to ensure everything is in deep freeze, within the 45 minute window. Better money in that then selling bud, if you have your strains and systems down. *


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## 2com (Jul 29, 2020)

smokebros said:


> @Renfro You will not regret switching over to Jacks, neither will your wallet or your plants. And your friend is right about running it full strength from start to finish. I tried running it half strength and once my plants got larger (and their nutritional requirements became more demanding) I was running into deficiencies. That went away once switching to full strength. I've since fed all my other plants full strength from the beginning of life and they are all thriving, no burn whatsoever.
> 
> If you ever switch PH pens look at the AI311 from Apera. It has replaceable glass probes and his been the best PH pen I've ever used.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Apera-Instruments-AI311-Replaceable-2-00-16-00/dp/B01ENFOIQE/ref=sr_1_3?crid=6H15FZVCEGP2&keywords=apera+ph+meter&qid=1550588222&s=industrial&sprefix=apera+ph,industrial,184&sr=1-3


What type of deficiencies did you see? Any pics you could show? Just curious, no big deal if you can't/don't want to.


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## 2com (Jul 29, 2020)

@Renfro 
So, is this pretty much the profile you're working with (took from week 5 flower numbers)?:

Calculated Elemental PPMNitrogen (N)182.3Phosphorous (P)74.7Potassium (K)238.4Calcium179.0Magnesium69.3Silicon52.800Sulfur30.0Chlorine0.000Sodium0.000Iron3.082Molybdenum0.018Zinc0.330Manganese1.101Boron0.000Copper0.000Cobalt0.011


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## Bigdaddy76 (Aug 3, 2020)

2com said:


> What type of deficiencies did you see? Any pics you could show? Just curious, no big deal if you can't/don't want to.


If you read whole thread he said, they were falling way behind his other plants, fertilizered with his normal nutes (which I believe is GH) during flower. So he went back to what he knew works. It kept up just fine in veg, just not flower.


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## 2com (Aug 3, 2020)

Bigdaddy76 said:


> If you read whole thread he said, they were falling way behind his other plants, fertilizered with his normal nutes (which I believe is GH) during flower. So he went back to what he knew works. It kept up just fine in veg, just not flower.


-I did read the whole thread, months and months ago. I do not _memorize_ entire threads.
-Also, my question was directed at @smokebros, not Renfro.
-If you read my post properly...


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## Renfro (Aug 8, 2020)

So these were taken on 7/7/2020. i moved them in smaller than usual because i wanted to do some things in my veg room and wanted these out of the way. They are OCDxM15 (caps cut).



Here they are on 8/8/2020, about 20 days into 12/12.



Looks like they will put out lol little whores


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## Flatrate (Aug 8, 2020)

Looking good as always Ren, how much do plants that size drink and how often?


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## Renfro (Aug 8, 2020)

Flatrate said:


> Looking good as always Ren, how much do plants that size drink and how often?


Right now they are getting 1.67 gallons every 24 - 25 hours in the rows. Watering based on moisture meter so they only get it when they are ready. When they first moved in they needed water about every 2.5 days. The oddballs that aren't under a light get it every other watering.


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## Renfro (Aug 8, 2020)

I was gonna lolipop them tomorrow but may as well start today lol


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## Renfro (Aug 14, 2020)

So my old platter style kWh meter for my grows 125 amp sub panel decided it had enough lol. So i replaced it with a digital meter for each phase. This is a definite upgrade since i can see how well my loads are balanced. The image was taken with the veg room off and room B running. I like it!


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## Renfro (Aug 14, 2020)

I suppose that loads running on 240v the amps are displayed 2x since it reads on both phases. lol kWh totals would be valid since they are summed at 120 volts on each meter but when reading the amps on each phase some are phase to phase and some are phase to neutral, the phase to phase amps would show up on both meters.


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## Sif1 (Aug 18, 2020)

Benframpton302 said:


> Thanks, you just showed your lack of knowledge. And I would normally share some helpful stuff but your the type of person we don't want in the cannabis community so I'll let you figure it out on your own & let the rest of the people on here realize that your a fraud.


What a clown.


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## Renfro (Aug 18, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> What a clown.


Right? As to his ragging on my process for drying and lack of curing... One thing many don't know is that THCa degrades much quicker when moisture is present. For example, I had some left over flower (had missed a tray and left it for about 9 months lol. It was sitting in the hot dry room, very dry, like teens RH%. The aromatic terpenes were long gone of course. When I found it I had just picked up a rosin press and figured what better material to do my first test pressing with. I made some kief off the super dry old flower. I then put the kief in 45u bag and pressed it for rosin. Once the rosin cooled it was shatter consistency, still THCa, when normally I would expect old trichomes to make perma goo, THC. I hit up my extracts buddy Twitch, he is to extracts as I am to growing, and he said that the lack of moisture during that 9 months is what kept the THCa from breaking down into THC with all the heat present. Of course sitting all that time had allowed the terpenes to evaporate but the THCa remained acetate. So I learned something that day lol.


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## Keesje (Aug 18, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> What a clown.


He also disappeared. 
If such people don't get the credits and applause they hope for, they often vanish. 
You can see that happen on many forums.


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## Renfro (Aug 18, 2020)

Keesje said:


> He also disappeared.
> If such people don't get the credits and applause they hope for, they often vanish.
> You can see that happen on many forums.


Well the fact that he said he had knowledge to drop probably prompted his quick disappearance as he likely lacked said knowledge entirely. Honestly, not the sort the community needs. I may not know everything and sometimes I am in error but I do share my knowledge and am not stingy with it. I also try to avoid being a dick about it lol.


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## Renfro (Aug 18, 2020)

I don't think he posted any pictures either, of course someone could always post pictures they found on some other forum lol.


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## Renfro (Aug 18, 2020)

Room B - OCD X M15 - day 29 pics



Everything looks good so far. On the 9th I lollipopped the fuck out of the inner/lower stuff that wasn't going to get any light. It was a lot of work, packed four 10 gallon buckets with branches.


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## Dirk8==D~Diggler (Aug 18, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Room B - OCD X M15 - day 29 pics
> 
> View attachment 4657213View attachment 4657215
> 
> Everything looks good so far. On the 9th I lollipopped the fuck out of the inner/lower stuff that wasn't going to get any light. It was a lot of work, packed four 10 gallon buckets with branches.


Couldn’t tell from the pic did you ever decide to string those red LEDs in the canopy like a Christmas tree? Sorry if it’s in here I haven’t looked in a while


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## Gwhiliker (Aug 18, 2020)

Dirk8==D~Diggler said:


> Couldn’t tell from the pic did you ever decide to string those red LEDs in the canopy like a Christmas tree? Sorry if it’s in here I haven’t looked in a while


he did introduce the Technics!


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## newbplantgrower420 (Aug 18, 2020)

Im actually thinking of using side lighting in between my aisles.

I really like this hanging bulb idea inbetween 2 aisles. But it would be nice if it was an LED option just to keep electricity costs low.

What do you guys recommend?


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## Sif1 (Aug 18, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I don't think he posted any pictures either, of course someone could always post pictures they found on some other forum lol.


He will come back and either apologize or use and different name once he realizes how good this thread is. I've been growing for 40yrs, now 54 and i continue to learn. This thread is golden in my opinion. 

As for having the bud dried to a state where you just need to touch the small leaves is real. I've done it for yrs. Especially when I had Afghani #1 cut. That shit was awesome but a hassle to trim. 

On another subject. I've been strain hunting and found this website.

Looks like some nice strains.






feminized Seeds Archives - Anesia Seed Company







anesiaseeds.com


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## Renfro (Aug 18, 2020)

Dirk8==D~Diggler said:


> Couldn’t tell from the pic did you ever decide to string those red LEDs in the canopy like a Christmas tree


I did that in the last round, by the time the plants were into flowering you couldn't see the LED's, they were lost down in the mass of plant lol. Did they help? Maybe a little but they also made for some chlorosis when they would lay against a nugget. I wouldn't recommend using them in that manner.


newbplantgrower420 said:


> Im actually thinking of using side lighting in between my aisles.
> 
> I really like this hanging bulb idea inbetween 2 aisles. But it would be nice if it was an LED option just to keep electricity costs low.
> 
> What do you guys recommend?


A HID works better for this application since it takes up little space and pumps intense light in all directions. An LED in the middle of an aisle would need to be double sided and it would take up a lot more area. In my application a LED for side lighting would be best used on the end of a row where it's only facing one direction and walking space doesn't matter so much.


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## Renfro (Aug 18, 2020)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> I really like this hanging bulb idea inbetween 2 aisles. But it would be nice if it was an LED option just to keep electricity costs low.
> 
> What do you guys recommend?


Oh, as to recommendations, well you can't go wrong with a SE HPS. Know that most metal halide lamps won't work if used in the vertical position so they are out. You want a lamp thats universal or vertical (base up). For smaller areas you could use a 315 CMH with an adapter to fit a mogul base (e39/e40) socket. You can get the bare bulb vertical socket / cord / hanger as well (no reflector).


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## newbplantgrower420 (Aug 19, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I did that in the last round, by the time the plants were into flowering you couldn't see the LED's, they were lost down in the mass of plant lol. Did they help? Maybe a little but they also made for some chlorosis when they would lay against a nugget. I wouldn't recommend using them in that manner.
> 
> A HID works better for this application since it takes up little space and pumps intense light in all directions. An LED in the middle of an aisle would need to be double sided and it would take up a lot more area. In my application a LED for side lighting would be best used on the end of a row where it's only facing one direction and walking space doesn't matter so much.


Got 3 4x8s side by side with 2 aisles that are ~ 15 inches each. I dont even use them until I chop down honestly. Might as well add some lighting in there.

What sidelighting do you recommend in there? 1000w SE, 600w or CMH? Its only 15ish inches I just gotta organize it alittle better once I add it so the plants dont burn.


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## Renfro (Aug 19, 2020)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> Got 3 4x8s side by side with 2 aisles that are ~ 15 inches each. I dont even use them until I chop down honestly. Might as well add some lighting in there.
> 
> What sidelighting do you recommend in there? 1000w SE, 600w or CMH? Its only 15ish inches I just gotta organize it alittle better once I add it so the plants dont burn.


My aisles are a lot wider, how many inches do you have between them? Perhaps a double sided strip light driven softly would work that close to the plants. To really benefit from side lighting you have to be growing taller plants. The inner stuff on mine has to get lolipopped, only what makes it to light stays.


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## newbplantgrower420 (Aug 19, 2020)

~15 inches. I was hoping having to lollipop less because of the sidelighting penetrating through. Theyre really lanky this time I had some issues in veg. The cages are 42inch theyre well above it. 

But usually I try to keep it ~45inches including the hugo.


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## Renfro (Aug 19, 2020)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> ~15 inches.


It looks like the plants filled that space though, like there is 15 inches between the plants you have?

My aisles are 45 inches wide (between trellis rigs) and the plants / rows are 8 feet apart from trunk to trunk. The plants end up growing out through the sides of the trellis, some strains a lot and others much less, you have to force those strains. Strains like OCD x M15 or Gorilla Glue will grow out a foot or more on each side of the 45 inch aisle, leaving me like 2 feet or less between the plants for those vertical lights, other strains I might have 3 feet.


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## Renfro (Aug 19, 2020)

I should add the trellis rigs are 5 feet tall as well. So 4x8x5 foot frames for the trellis. To really get any benefit from the wide aisles, I need tall plants to provide enough side canopy to make up for the canopy lost by the aisle. If I have say 2.5 feet of vertical side canopy I make more lit plant this way and I use less plants (thats the goal, stay in a plant count but grow a lot of weed).


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## jonnynobody (Sep 4, 2020)

There are few people I have seen on this forum (or any other for that matter) with the motivation and know how to do what you have accomplished in your grow room, and your efforts are an inspiration to indoor gardeners everywhere. I'm going to work through all the pages of your journal over the next couple of days. I hope to implement some of your ideas into my flower room in an effort to make daily maintenance easier and produce higher yields. I really like the idea of using the flora series in the big jugs with pumps. It's quick and efficient. Plus a nice bulk discount savings buying the big containers.

I'm apprehensive to ask any questions yet, because I'm sure you've covered an immense amount of detail in the 86 pages this thread has accumulated 

One of the biggest problems I'm facing right now is that watering day is consuming nearly 2.5 hours every other day with mixing, watering, and cleanup. I'd love to automate the process in some fashion. I'm currently running 19 hempy buckets in drain to waste. I don't mind running the pump and water wand from the reservoir. The real time sucker and pain in the butt is having to use a kerosene transfer pump (cheap and very effective) to drain each saucer after the watering process is done. If I could just manage the waste water run off that would make life a lot easier.

What kind of system might you suggest to make this work easier? I'm all ears. I love the hempy buckets for their simplicity. If I could just find a way to manage the waste water more effectively I could solve my labor and time management problem. I'm not a good critical thinker


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## Renfro (Sep 4, 2020)

jonnynobody said:


> There are few people I have seen on this forum (or any other for that matter) with the motivation and know how to do what you have accomplished in your grow room, and your efforts are an inspiration to indoor gardeners everywhere. I'm going to work through all the pages of your journal over the next couple of days. I hope to implement some of your ideas into my flower room in an effort to make daily maintenance easier and produce higher yields. I really like the idea of using the flora series in the big jugs with pumps. It's quick and efficient. Plus you get a huge bulk discount savings buying the big containers.
> 
> I'm apprehensive to ask any questions yet, because I'm sure you've covered an immense amount of detail in the 86 pages this thread has accumulated
> 
> ...


I don't have to mess with waste water, it all goes to a floor drain. I wouldn't grow without a floor drain. It takes me about 15 minutes per day per flowering room to mix nutes and water.


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## jonnynobody (Sep 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I don't have to mess with waste water, it all goes to a floor drain. I wouldn't grow without a floor drain. It takes me about 15 minutes per day per flowering room to mix nutes and water.


If you saw my watering process you'd have a good laugh. It gets done, but let's just say I'm having some growing pains


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## Renfro (Sep 4, 2020)

jonnynobody said:


> I'm having some growing pains


I see what you did there lol.

If I didn't have a floor drain I would get the jack hammer out and make a sump pit. Done it before back in Missouri. Drop the plastic sump tank in the hole, fill around with concrete to make it look like the home was built that way. Put a sump pump in there and plumb all my plants waste to the pit.


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## jonnynobody (Sep 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I see what you did there lol.
> 
> If I didn't have a floor drain I would get the jack hammer out and make a sump pit. Done it before back in Missouri. Drop the plastic sump tank in the hole, fill around with concrete to make it look like the home was built that way. Put a sump pump in there and plumb all my plants waste to the pit.


I never would have thought to do anything creative like that. Crafty and effective. That's a great long term solution. Something tells me your phone rings often for a lot of those "how do you think I should do this" type of questions. The world needs more MacGyver's like you dude. I don't smoke joints too often these days. I prefer my bong. It's the quickest and most effective path to being stoned. Today is different though. I've got 84 more pages to work through here, and I promised the wife I wouldn't work on any repair projects today. Time to get rolling and reading


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## Gwhiliker (Sep 4, 2020)

Might I add that flood trays and buckets might be an option as well* as this is what I'm doing to prevent my leech line getting algae. But listen to ren over all


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## jonnynobody (Sep 4, 2020)

Gwhiliker said:


> Might I add that flood trays and buckets might be an option as well* as this is what I'm doing to prevent my leech line getting algae. But listen to ren over all


Your mention of flood tables got my brain juices flowing a bit. I don't really have the vertical height in the flower room to raise the plants very much. However, If I placed those big trays (can't think of the proper term) on my floor or even a few rectangular kiddie pools to set the buckets inside of I could let the run off drain into those. I could run a garden hose to my floor drain, attach it to a pump, and I could drop the pump in each tray / pool after my water cycle to evacuate the waste. Man I really think this is my solution. Grow trays (as many as are needed to cover the bucket foot print), garden hose, and pump. I've got everything except the grow trays. I think that's the simplest and cheapest path to working this little situation out. Hell I could even do the same in my tent nurseries. 5'x5' trays in the bottom and no more saucers. Just let it drain to the floor and pump the floor tray. The hardest part for me right now is reaching into very awkward positions to pump the water out of each saucer. If I could just drop my pump in an easy to access spot my life becomes a lot easier, and provide a great deal of back pain relief. Getting old sucks 

Edit: Found these https://hydrobuilder.com/hydroponics/hydroponic-grow-trays-and-stands/grow-trays-1317/active-aqua-flood-table-premium-white.html One 4'x8' would cover 2 rows from end to end. I have 4 rows, so 2 of these would cover my flower room for under $500. Convincing the wife will be the hardest part. It just has to be done though. I mention the word jack hammer and my growing privileges may be revoked


----------



## Gwhiliker (Sep 4, 2020)

jonnynobody said:


> Your mention of flood tables got my brain juices flowing a bit. I don't really have the vertical height in the flower room to raise the plants very much. However, If I placed those big trays (can't think of the proper term) on my floor or even a few rectangular kiddie pools to set the buckets inside of I could let the run off drain into those. I could run a garden hose to my floor drain, attach it to a pump, and I could drop the pump in each tray / pool after my water cycle to evacuate the waste. Man I really think this is my solution. Grow trays (as many as are needed to cover the bucket foot print), garden hose, and pump. I've got everything except the grow trays. I think that's the simplest and cheapest path to working this little situation out. Hell I could even do the same in my tent nurseries. 5'x5' trays in the bottom and no more saucers. Just let it drain to the floor and pump the floor tray. The hardest part for me right now is reaching into very awkward positions to pump the water out of each saucer. If I could just drop my pump in an easy to access spot my life becomes a lot easier, and provide a great deal of back pain relief. Getting old sucks
> 
> Edit: Found these https://hydrobuilder.com/hydroponics/hydroponic-grow-trays-and-stands/grow-trays-1317/active-aqua-flood-table-premium-white.html One 4'x8' would cover 2 rows from end to end. I have 4 rows, so 2 of these would cover my flower room for under $500. Convincing the wife will be the hardest part. It just has to be done though. I mention the word jack hammer and my growing privileges may be revoked


5x5s are a nightmare, you have no options. Drop down to 4 foot and the world is yours when it comes to flood trays, I'm currently ordering 3 5x5 end pieces and 3 5x5 drain ends for 3 5x10 tables but the tray for my 4x8 is right at the damn grow shop


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## Cabrone (Sep 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I feed them every watering (daily) PPM is at 1200 - 1250 when in flower.
> 
> Thanks for the positive remarks folks. I'll be sure to keep updating.


I know this is an old post, but would you please clarify if this is an elemental ppm or an ec meter on the 500 scale? My limited experience tells me that's not elemental ppm?


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## jonnynobody (Sep 4, 2020)

Gwhiliker said:


> 5x5s are a nightmare, you have no options. Drop down to 4 foot and the world is yours when it comes to flood trays, I'm currently ordering 3 5x5 end pieces and 3 5x5 drain ends for 3 5x10 tables but the tray for my 4x8 is right at the damn grow shop


This may be a silly question, but I have no experience with these trays. Can I block the drain hole so the water just pools in the table? I'm hoping to use them as oversized saucers as long as I can plug the hole. Draining 2 trays is light years easier than draining 19 saucers. Most of which are very difficult to get to. I think I will be able to use a 4'x4' in my nursery tents which should fit the buckets nearly perfect. They trays don't necessarily have to go edge to edge. Just far enough so the bucket sits in the tray. Losing 6" on each side adds up to the 12" reduction. In my head it seems like it will work perfect.


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## Gwhiliker (Sep 4, 2020)

jonnynobody said:


> This may be a silly question, but I have no experience with these trays. Can I block the drain hole so the water just pools in the table? I'm hoping to use them as oversized saucers as long as I can plug the hole. Draining 2 trays is light years easier than draining 19 saucers. Most of which are very difficult to get to.


Anything's possible with the right amount of joints


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## Flatrate (Sep 4, 2020)

I run a pan in my tent and just suck up the run off with a shop vac.


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## jonnynobody (Sep 4, 2020)

Flatrate said:


> I run a pan in my tent and just suck up the run off with a shop vac.


Shit I like that man. I like that a lot actually. I never even thought about using a shop vac. The rigid I've got even has a drain hole in the bottom of the vac. That will actually work perfect for my nursery tents. I can pickup another dedicated vac just for that purpose. The hose is nice and long with great reach versus my kerosene transfer pump which is only about 2' long, and I have to use 1 hand to hold the pump vertically. Your way for clearing the water in the tents is simple and efficient. The hose on my rigid vac is at least 6' long. I can already feel the back pain relief  Good looking out dude. And I might even use this as an option for clearing the water in my flower room due to the long reach of the hose. It's just too easy. Why not, right?


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## Flatrate (Sep 4, 2020)

Hell tape the end of your shop vac hose to an old broom stick, no more bending.


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## Gwhiliker (Sep 4, 2020)

Flatrate said:


> Hell tape the end of your shop vac hose to an old broom stick, no more bending.


I love this so much


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## jonnynobody (Sep 4, 2020)

Flatrate said:


> Hell tape the end of your shop vac hose to an old broom stick, no more bending.


Want to hear something that will make y'all laugh at my expense? So, the wife has the grand baby at a doctor's appointment for a checkup. I promised I'd take her to the park when she gets back. She didn't know she's getting a flu shot today. I thought I'd sneak in a quick epsom salt bath. Get a nice soak in to soften the tense back muscles. Well I got a little side tracked as I tend to do with my atrocious ADD. And the tub overflowed. Caught it just as it was pushing over the edge. What was down below? 30 gallon trash can half full of trim material awaiting bubble hash processing. It only got lightly wet on top. Got it all back on the dry net. I don't know if it will be good for anything except edibles now. I swear I'm my own worst enemy some days. The worst part is I'll innevitably have to explain what happened to the wife when she sees the drying net with all the trim on it hanging in the basement. Man o man


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## Renfro (Sep 4, 2020)

Cabrone said:


> I know this is an old post, but would you please clarify if this is an elemental ppm or an ec meter on the 500 scale? My limited experience tells me that's not elemental ppm?


NOT elemental, thats always lower than an EC reading at .5 scale. So if you mixed up an elemental at 1000 mg/l it would be way too strong. When I talk elemental I use mg/l


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## Cabrone (Sep 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> NOT elemental, thats always lower than an EC reading at .5 scale. So if you mixed up an elemental at 1000 mg/l it would be way too strong. When I talk elemental I use mg/l


Thank you for the clarification. That's what I thought. I didn't want to fry my plants going off half cocked. I get enuf shit from my wife for that


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## Renfro (Sep 4, 2020)

A few room B shots at day 45. It feels very crowded moving around in there, plants swelled into the aisles and off the end of the rows. Yeah it could use some defoliation, any volunteers? lol I did get them lolipopped pretty hard around day 20, there was a shit ton of "inner" branches that weren't getting to light. Yeah a few branches on the oddball plants at the end of the aisles hit the floor, such is life.  Got most of them tied up good enough on those two "extra" plants (they don't have an overhead light or trellis rig).

 

This series of photos leads you to an aerial view down into that back corner, best as I could do. Can't really get there from here with that oddball at the end of the row.



This room is all OCD x M15 with the exception of the two oddballs, they are Divine Gelato #3. The OCD x M15 never likes to make big logs, she prefers to make a lot of smaller buds but they are super dense and hella high resin production. Figured I would see what she does given the chance. You may remember these were brought in way smaller than usual and I did 3 per row instead of 2, started training them lower than usual and this made them literally too branchy for my liking. Did make for some nice side canopy though.


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## Silky T (Sep 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> These started 12/12 on 12/11/18 so they are about 23 days into flowering. Another 47ish to go.
> 
> Strain is Gorilla Glue #4. With this strain I manage 42 to 48 pounds.
> 
> ...


I don't get the one in the middle. I see the netting but what is the netting connected to?


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## Renfro (Sep 4, 2020)

Silky T said:


> I don't get the one in the middle. I see the netting but what is the netting connected to?


The plants at the end of the aisles were not trellised, just tied up to the ceiling with twist tie wire. They are my girlfriends plants.


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## jonnynobody (Sep 4, 2020)

I was reading about how you trim. Kudos on hand trimming that kind of volume. How do you store the plants as you are trimming them over the course of a month? Or is it like a staggered harvest? I'm ready to jump off a bridge trimming 3# with my wife over 5 or 6 days. I can't even imagine what you must have to go through processing a single harvest. I would have to just keep reminding myself "I hate working with other people and this is better than that."


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## Renfro (Sep 4, 2020)

jonnynobody said:


> I was reading about how you trim. Kudos on hand trimming that kind of volume.


My girl does all the trim work, thats her job. She'd rather trim 8 hours a day while sitting at home with the TV on than have to get up by an alarm clock and go to a real job, can't say I blame her. She usually gets it done in about a month.


jonnynobody said:


> How do you store the plants


They are defanned at chop and stacked in bread trays. Depending on strain it's usually about 5 - 8 ounces per tray of dry trimmed flower. I have a couple hundred trays and dollies they can be stacked on and rolled around. Air flows good through them and it's easy to grab one and take it to the table to trim.


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## Renfro (Sep 4, 2020)

Cabrone said:


> I didn't want to fry my plants going off half cocked. I get enuf shit from my wife for that


lol yeah they like full cock, none of that half assing it with drunk dick.


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## Renfro (Sep 4, 2020)

Something I am going to do as an experiment, after this room is chopped...

The vertical light thats between the rows, hanging in the aisle, well it's gonna get an upgrade. Here is my thinking... The plants really expand outward towards that light from both sides, but mostly just in that one spot, centered along the 8 foot dimension of the trellis rig.

Firstly I have some galaxy 1500 watt ballasts laying around, in a box somewhere in the garage. First I gotta dig those out lol

Second, I have some light rails laying around here not in use, they are actually in my veg room with nothing hanging from them.

Thirdly, I will have to purchase a couple bulbs, base up metal halide 1500's. Already ordered a couple, that came to about 90 bucks. So that's the expense to me for this upgrade. Well that and the electricity lol.

So put the light rail up such that it's centered in the aisle, the floor joist above is nearly perfectly centered on both aisles. Hang the vertical bare bulb fixture from the light rail and set it to move back and forth down the aisle. Then pop the 1500 watt MH bulb in there and let it do some magic.

I would say the 1500 would be overkill except for the fact that it will be moving and the light is cast in 360 degrees with no reflector.

What say you all? Think it's a good ideal?


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## Renfro (Sep 4, 2020)

I am thinking about ways to make a reflector for a vertical HID, one that would send light to both sides of the aisle, 180 degrees opposite but not waste light shooting it down the length of the aisle.

In my mind I am thinking something sorta like this (top view) *>o<* The >< is the metal reflector and the o is the bulb. So in this example the light would go up and down on the screen but not side to side.


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## diggs99 (Sep 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Something I am going to do as an experiment, after this room is chopped...
> 
> The vertical light thats between the rows, hanging in the aisle, well it's gonna get an upgrade. Here is my thinking... The plants really expand outward towards that light from both sides, but mostly just in that one spot, centered along the 8 foot dimension of the trellis rig.
> 
> ...


i like this idea and if anyone can implement the 1500 and maximize production in the room, its you bro


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## Renfro (Sep 4, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> i like this idea and if anyone can implement the 1500 and maximize production in the room, its you bro


Thanks man! I think I will grab some 1500 watt HPS lamps as well. I found some Interlux brand (never heard of it) for like 40 bucks, red shift, 215,000 lumens lol


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## J232 (Sep 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Thanks man! I think I will grab some 1500 watt HPS lamps as well. I found some Interlux brand (never heard of it) for like 40 bucks, red shift, 215,000 lumens lol


Can’t wait to see this!


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## Renfro (Sep 4, 2020)

J232 said:


> Can’t wait to see this!


Right? It was when I thought of the light mover option that I realized the 1500 watter could actually work in that space.


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## jonnynobody (Sep 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Right? It was when I thought of the light mover option that I realized the 1500 watter could actually work in that space.


Man I didn't even know there was such a thing as a 1500 watt light. That's badass. Love the light mover idea too. I'm experimenting with raising my PPM in the flower room after reading some of your journal. I'm wondering if I have been under feeding at 900-950PPM. I'm gonna throw 1200PPM at 'em and see what happens. I have a couple of hash plants that have some premature yellowing of the fan leaves. I figure if I see burn it's too much. If they appear more lush and healthy I'll continue until the 5 day flush before harvest. For some reason I've been apprehensive to breach 1000PPM. Not sure why that is. I'll report back the results.


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## J232 (Sep 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Right? It was when I thought of the light mover option that I realized the 1500 watter could actually work in that space.


A fine upgrade indeed man.


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## Renfro (Sep 4, 2020)

J232 said:


> A fine upgrade indeed man.


I'm pretty stoked about it. Once I had a 1000 in the middle and a few feet to either side of it was a 600, so I had 2200 watts hanging down one aisle. Of course the production was bad ass from that setup. Normally I would say a light mover just spreads yield but since I am upsizing the light wattage to 1500 I think there is potential for really improved yields all along the length of that aisle on both sides.


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## J232 (Sep 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I'm pretty stoked about it. Once I had a 1000 in the middle and a few feet to either side of it was a 600, so I had 2200 watts hanging down one aisle. Of course the production was bad ass from that setup. Normally I would say a light mover just spreads yield but since I am upsizing the light wattage to 1500 I think there is potential for really improved yields all along the length of that aisle on both sides.


Damn, 2200 side and I’m doing 1600 total lol, oh well, personal stash. I grabbed some led strips, going to try and cook something up for some 4K in with my 1kde and lose the 600w. Really interested to see the 1500 on a mover, I agree that won’t spread yield, that will increase it, paired with your skill set for sure.


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## Renfro (Sep 5, 2020)

So I dug into my stash and drug out a few of the 1500 watt ballasts to play



For perspective I took a photo of the 1500 watt MH bulb with a 5 gallon bucket for scale, it's kinda retarded lol imagine that thing moving back and forth down the aisle.  I figure I will have to set the delay as short as possible at the ends of the light rail, if it sits in one spot too long it might become an issue. Definitely gonna need to keep the light rails clean, if they get greasy from the little motor the wheels can slip. I haven't used the light rails since I took the SE HPS lights out of my veg room so I will have to pull a few of those down and clean em up.



I was gonna plug it in and fire it up for grins but of course the vertical socket cords I have handy are Hydrofarm plug and the ballast has the Sun system type plug and of course I have several adapters but they are all the wrong ones lol So the test fire will have to wait a minute unless I find something handy. I won't actually install it all until after this crop is out of the way, it's too tight in there right now plus I don't want wood crumbs from drilling holes in the floor joists to get in the buds. So sometime next month I will have them up and running if all goes as planned. and they will run for the whole crop, 1500 watt HPS until about day 45 - 50 and then I will switch them to the 1500 watt metal halides.


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## ttystikk (Sep 5, 2020)

Your idea of running the light rail between your trellises will work awesome.

Many years ago, I built my own circular light mover using an old mountain bike and a windshield wiper motor from a Honda Civic lol The cord didn't get twisted because the lamp hung from a swivel. I ran a vertical sheet of smooth mirror finish mylar around the whole grow area.

That single 1000W HPS was mounted horizontally under a grow wing reflector, and the gearing I had set for it made the light travel a full circle in about 3 and a half minutes. I ran the lamp only 6" above the canopy because it was constantly moving. The spread yield thing misses the fact that a moving light overcomes shading effects so you do get more yield.

I had enough space inside for a dozen plants trained to the size of a big trash can lid, and they were in two stages so I'd pull about a pound and a half every 3 weeks.

This was close to 30 years ago now. Good times!


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## Renfro (Sep 5, 2020)

@ttystikk 
Hey man, good to see you, it's been a while. Hows things?


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## ozziebud (Sep 5, 2020)

hows this for a light 1 per room renfro


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## Renfro (Sep 6, 2020)

ozziebud said:


> hows this for a light 1 per room renfro


lol too bad it's incandescent. Probably makes 15kW of heat lol


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## IceBrr (Sep 6, 2020)

Pretty sick setup there mate, goodluck with it ! It looks great so far


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## Renfro (Sep 6, 2020)

Found a socket with the right plug, so here it is, 1500 watt mh test fire.



It's definitely bright, makes the DE's on 1150 look like 600's lol


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## Bullygrowz (Sep 6, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Found a socket with the right plug, so here it is, 1500 watt mh test fire.
> 
> View attachment 4675493
> 
> It's definitely bright, makes the DE's on 1150 look like 600's lol


Thats one massive fken bulb


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## Renfro (Sep 6, 2020)

Bullygrowz said:


> Thats one massive fken bulb


yeah it's as long as a 5 gallon bucket is tall. Should be a beast on the light mover.


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## Renfro (Sep 6, 2020)

So I took a reading off that 1500 MH, it feels like I am getting a tan standing there, this reading is from the trellis rig side canopy area in room A, it's bout 20 inches from the center of the aisle (where the lamp is hanging). The reading is between 1030 and 1100 umols, hard to hold the sensor perfectly still.

So yeah, it's bright getting those readings down both sides of the aisle. Will need the light rail mover for sure, I might not end up with an aisle between that fat fucker moving back and forth and the sides of the plants growing out into the aisle. This winter run is gonna be epic lol, the plan for room B is to fill it up with Divine Gelato #3 and the oddballs will probably be mimosa since she makes strongest branches and likes to grow straight upward and not outward.



Depending on the heat I will probably only run this planned setup on the winter runs, swap the lamp/ballast to 1000 during summer runs but still have the mover.


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## Renfro (Sep 8, 2020)

Day 27 update in room A.



I really wish I had let them veg a few more days before flip, but thats the trickiest part of this setup, predicting the stretch. It's easy to end up too tall or too short. I so wish I had 10 foot or higher ceilings lol. Those mimosa oddball plants at the ends of the aisles really grew up into the ceiling  

I left a couple of the 1500's running in room A for shits and giggles. I didn't do a center plant on these rows and they needed a little more veg time so I figure there is room for the stationary 1500's. We will see, I let one run for a couple days without issue and I added the other one today. Those lights were just 600's before. lol


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## Polyuro (Sep 8, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Day 27 update in room A.
> 
> View attachment 4677991View attachment 4677990View attachment 4677992
> 
> ...


I envy your ceiling height!


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## Renfro (Sep 8, 2020)

Polyuro said:


> I envy your ceiling height!


What are you working with?


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## Polyuro (Sep 8, 2020)

About 7.5’ before cribbing down for light fixtures. Classic KC 1950’s ranch with the old hardwood framing/joists that’s strong as shit but flammable as fuck...


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## Bignutes (Sep 8, 2020)

Polyuro said:


> About 7.5’ before cribbing down for light fixtures. Classic KC 1950’s ranch with the old hardwood framing/joists that’s strong as shit but flammable as fuck...


Tin offset with air gap like they do for flue vents but flat


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## Sif1 (Sep 9, 2020)

Have a look at this new Ballast.
Can use this model with compatible for HPS, MH, CMH of different Watt. Even 315 CMH.


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## Renfro (Sep 9, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> Have a look at this new Ballast.
> Can use this model with compatible for HPS, MH, CMH of different Watt. Even 315 CMH.
> 
> 
> ...


Man I am scared of Nanolux products, had so many problems with their products in the past.


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## Sif1 (Sep 9, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Man I am scared of Nanolux products, had so many problems with their products in the past.


I might order a sample 10 lights from China and give them a run. But what you have said scares me. Yrs ago i purchased these random lights from China as a sample, havn't had any problems with them. Then I purchased Hellions from Australia in Feb which are meant to be one of the best and had heaps of issues. Maybe its environmental, power surges etc. I just don't know.


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## Renfro (Sep 9, 2020)

For me the problems of having to swap out dead equipment outweighs the cost of buying stuff I think will be more reliable. If you just have 2 or 3 lights it's not so big a deal but the more you have, the more there is to fail and it ends up that you are messing with a dead ballast every couple weeks or so, thats gay lol. When I ran the nanolux DE's I was replacing the replacements under warranty and it was a PITA so I ended up phasing them out for Phantom and Sun System ballasts (they haven't had any failures yet).


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 9, 2020)

Hey Ren - Really good work here. Have you considered using quantum boards for the side lighting?


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## Renfro (Sep 9, 2020)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> Hey Ren - Really good work here. Have you considered using quantum boards for the side lighting?


I have some COB LED's that I am building to replace some of the 400's on the ends of the rows. In the aisles I will stick with HID because a two sided LED hanging there would be too bulky and thats where I move around to water plants. You can actually see one of the COB fixtures on the end of the middle row in room B.





Sif1 said:


> Maybe its environmental, power surges etc. I just don't know.


One thing I always put on my grows is an Intermatic Panel Guard. Installed on my sub panel it protects the whole grow from power surges.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 9, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I have some COB LED's that I am building to replace some of the 400's on the ends of the rows. In the aisles I will stick with HID because a two sided LED hanging there would be too bulky and thats where I move around to water plants. You can actually see one of the COB fixtures on the end of the middle row in room B.
> 
> View attachment 4678811
> 
> ...


I'll have to check that out as I installed a 100 amp sub panel for my future work.


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## Sif1 (Sep 9, 2020)

Hi Renfro, How long ago were you having issues with Nanolux?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 9, 2020)

This was what I was thinking...

I don't know if you ever saw any of my journals when I first starting experimenting with QB's. The 1st one I built 4 of these towers on wheels. I was thinking if you screwed two 2x4's to them horizontally, you could have boards facing the left and boards facing the right taking up only about a 1' footprint. And being on wheels, super easy to move around. You could turn one side off and roll it to that side giving you plenty of space to work.

Kind of like this...


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## Sif1 (Sep 9, 2020)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> This was what I was thinking...
> 
> I don't know if you ever saw any of my journals when I first starting experimenting with QB's. The 1st one I built 4 of these towers on wheels. I was thinking if you screwed two 2x4's to them horizontally, you could have boards facing the left and boards facing the right taking up only about a 1' footprint. And being on wheels, super easy to move around. You could turn one side off and roll it to that side giving you plenty of space to work.
> 
> ...


You need to weed those pots man. Or are they there for some reason?


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Sep 9, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> You need to weed those pots man. Or are they there for some reason?


It was a cover crop for my 1st (and last) living soil experiment. haha.
But this is not my journal - stay on topic.


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## Renfro (Sep 9, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> Hi Renfro, How long ago were you having issues with Nanolux?


Around 2016 with the DE HPS ballasts and 2019 with the DE CMH lamps.


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## Sif1 (Sep 9, 2020)

This is the order i'm considering, but if you think they a crap, maybe not. Sample order


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## Renfro (Sep 9, 2020)

Sif1 said:


> View attachment 4679211
> This is the order i'm considering, but if you think they a crap, maybe not. Sample order


I have no clue how they will do for you, I just know that I personally won't be buying anymore Nanolux stuff. The list says Summit, but were those Nanolux?


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## Sif1 (Sep 10, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I have no clue how they will do for you, I just know that I personally won't be buying anymore Nanolux stuff. The list says Summit, but were those Nanolux?


Summit is the new range. perhaps the old range with a new name because of problems you mentioned with the old range.


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## ttystikk (Sep 10, 2020)

Renfro said:


> For me the problems of having to swap out dead equipment outweighs the cost of buying stuff I think will be more reliable. If you just have 2 or 3 lights it's not so big a deal but the more you have, the more there is to fail and it ends up that you are messing with a dead ballast every couple weeks or so, thats gay lol. When I ran the nanolux DE's I was replacing the replacements under warranty and it was a PITA so I ended up phasing them out for Phantom and Sun System ballasts (they haven't had any failures yet).


Funny how things go sometimes; I've personally had nothing but problems with Phantom ballasts, as did other people I knew. In fact, it was so bad it convinced me to go with LED lighting back in the day when I upgraded from magnetic ballasts running Philips 860W CDM lamps.


----------



## Renfro (Sep 10, 2020)

ttystikk said:


> I've personally had nothing but problems with Phantom ballasts, as did other people I knew.


The ONLY phantoms I have had luck with is their Commercial DE's. I wouldn't have bought them if it wasn't for a buddy has a 9 light grow I put together for him, built the whole room and put in his AC, electrical. He helped with manual labor and painting, stuff like that. He had bought the Phantom Commercial DE ballasts before I got involved, probably good for him because I woulda probably turned him on to the Nanolux as I had just picked mine up lol. But yeah after messing with the nanolux ballasts doing warranty exchanges over and over I asked him if his ballasts were still kicking and he mentioned he had zero issues with them, so I picked up 6 and converted one whole room to Phantoms (Room B) and I used the old Nanolux ballasts as replacements in room A, until they all ran out and then I started putting in the Phantoms and Sun Systems as replacements for dead nanolux's. I haven't had any failures yet from either. I picked up the sun system because it's what they had in stock that day and I didn't wanna wait. Had good luck with it and now have a few more. I think I have 3 nanolux ballasts still kicking lol.



Sif1 said:


> Summit is the new range. perhaps the old range with a new name because of problems you mentioned with the old range.


Maybe thats the deal, let me know how they work out for you as the years progress. I hope they do good.


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## ttystikk (Sep 10, 2020)

Renfro said:


> The ONLY phantoms I have had luck with is their Commercial DE's. I wouldn't have bought them if it wasn't for a buddy has a 9 light grow I put together for him, built the whole room and put in his AC, electrical. He helped with manual labor and painting, stuff like that. He had bought the Phantom Commercial DE ballasts before I got involved, probably good for him because I woulda probably turned him on to the Nanolux as I had just picked mine up lol. But yeah after messing with the nanolux ballasts doing warranty exchanges over and over I asked him if his ballasts were still kicking and he mentioned he had zero issues with them, so I picked up 6 and converted one whole room to Phantoms (Room B) and I used the old Nanolux ballasts as replacements in room A, until they all ran out and then I started putting in the Phantoms and Sun Systems as replacements for dead nanolux's. I haven't had any failures yet from either. I picked up the sun system because it's what they had in stock that day and I didn't wanna wait. Had good luck with it and now have a few more. I think I have 3 nanolux ballasts still kicking lol.
> 
> 
> Maybe thats the deal, let me know how they work out for you as the years progress. I hope they do good.


The Phantoms I had problems with were 400W and 600W units. I have never run a DE fixture.


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## oldsilvertip55 (Sep 10, 2020)

LOOKS like pup is pleased dirty nose and all!


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## Renfro (Sep 10, 2020)

oldsilvertip55 said:


> LOOKS like pup is pleased dirty nose and all!


You must have been looking at the old picture of Clem lol. He loves digging.


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## oldsilvertip55 (Sep 10, 2020)

looks like was happy pup diggin in dirt


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## eddy600 (Sep 11, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I have no clue how they will do for you, I just know that I personally won't be buying anymore Nanolux stuff. The list says Summit, but were those Nanolux?


 Do you feel the need to add extra heat during the dark cycle as you switch to LED? It's getting cooler and i hear that they need higher all around temps


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## Renfro (Sep 11, 2020)

eddy600 said:


> Do you feel the need to add extra heat during the dark cycle as you switch to LED? It's getting cooler and i hear that they need higher all around temps


In my case the dehumidification takes care of enough adding heat.


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## Renfro (Sep 18, 2020)

So i was bored tonight, girl friend wasn't feeling well and left me and the doggos with nothing to do. In my boredom I found a little pile of mixed strain keif laying in the trim bin and decided to rosin press it since it wasn't full melt clear dome level stuff and here is the results:



Sorry for the bad flash lighting, i was just bored and did not plan anything lol. A little over 3 grams of nearly shatter hardness at 73f, very strong dabs. i can definitely tell the mimosa dominates. Shes very unique and complex, smelling like some sorta dank cologne for super studly stoner dudes lol. I pressed it slow and low, 195F for 2.5 minutes gently easing up the pressure as the patty warmed up.

So now my girl will have a pleasant surprise when she gets up and the doggos and I are sitting here dabbed out and I thought I would share.


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## ttystikk (Sep 18, 2020)

Renfro said:


> So i was bored tonight, girl friend wasn't feeling well and left me and the doggos with nothing to do. In my boredom I found a little pile of mixed strain keif laying in the trim bin and decided to rosin press it since it wasn't full melt clear dome level stuff and here is the results:
> 
> View attachment 4687329
> 
> ...


Very nice! Sounds tasty, for sure


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## Renfro (Sep 18, 2020)

ttystikk said:


> Very nice! Sounds tasty, for sure


I wish you lived down here by me, I'd have someone to late night dab out with. All my friends down here are in bed by midnight. lol


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## Renfro (Sep 18, 2020)

Now I have the munchies and spotted a box of "kraft dinner" lol. mmmm haven't had that probably since sometime last year.


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## Renfro (Sep 18, 2020)

Don't spill the magic orange powder and always use real butter, never margarine. mmmm Thats a quick way to get your butter for the week. lol


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## Renfro (Sep 18, 2020)

Well I am stoned, full and tired. Plants are good, dogs are fed and sun is fixin' to come up outside. Time for this pot head to get some sleep. Have a great day folks!


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## ttystikk (Sep 18, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I wish you lived down here by me, I'd have someone to late night dab out with. All my friends down here are in bed by midnight. lol


Lol I was thinking the same thing!


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## Lockedin (Sep 18, 2020)

Renfro said:


> ....... Shes very unique and complex, smelling like some sorta dank cologne for super studly stoner dudes lol. .....


My favorite weed scent - somewhat "cologne / perfume" and dank. For the sophisticated stoner!


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## bodhipop (Sep 23, 2020)

Favorite. Grow Journal. Bump.


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## Caliverner (Sep 23, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Well I am stoned, full and tired. Plants are good, dogs are fed and sun is fixin' to come up outside. Time for this pot head to get some sleep. Have a great day folks!


Your on the Dboy schedule


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## Renfro (Sep 24, 2020)

So it took a while but those 1500 watt HPS bulbs finally arrived lol. Swapped out the MH bulbs to get some readings and test the HPS bulbs.



I am getting about the same umol readings as the 1500 watt mh bulbs, maybe a hair more like 10 or 20 umols but honestly nothing measurable with me holding the light sensor. That is about 1050 - 1100 umols at 20 inches around the bulb, if you move the sensor just an inch its 1200, so yeah, I will definitely want the light mover because the side canopy will try and grow out towards that light during stretch. 

For shits and grins I measured directly below the end of the bulb and I get about 500 - 600 umols at 12 inches lol.

Of course there is light from the overheads, I am aiming the sensor horizontally facing the lamp to get the 1100 reading at 20". Without the side lighting I would only expect readings in the low 300's at that spot on the "side canopy".

Very pleased so far.


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## vitalsine (Oct 5, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Well I am stoned, full and tired. Plants are good, dogs are fed and sun is fixin' to come up outside. Time for this pot head to get some sleep. Have a great day folks!


Man I have been on a tear this last few weeks, between work (I'm a video editor) and the garden, I've had a few sleepless nights... lol. Usually up til 4AM normally, but I haven't been getting to bed until like 10AM lately. Looking forward to the colder weather, going to dial my lights back to come on at 6PM instead of 8PM so that I can get a little work done earlier... Always been a nightowl. My girl is pissed, looks like our daughter is going to take after me haha. She got dads circadian rhythm!


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## Renfro (Oct 6, 2020)

vitalsine said:


> Man I have been on a tear this last few weeks, between work (I'm a video editor) and the garden, I've had a few sleepless nights... lol. Usually up til 4AM normally, but I haven't been getting to bed until like 10AM lately. Looking forward to the colder weather, going to dial my lights back to come on at 6PM instead of 8PM so that I can get a little work done earlier... Always been a nightowl. My girl is pissed, looks like our daughter is going to take after me haha. She got dads circadian rhythm!


I have always been wired for nights. I could be all sleepy as hell at 7 or 8pm but by 10 or 11 I am ready for a full night of work or whatever. Sun comes up and bam, tired again.


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## Flatrate (Oct 6, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I have always been wired for nights. I could be all sleepy as hell at 7 or 8pm but by 10 or 11 I am ready for a full night of work or whatever. Sun comes up and bam, tired again.


This is why I've been working 3rd shift for 20+ years.


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## vitalsine (Oct 6, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I have always been wired for nights. I could be all sleepy as hell at 7 or 8pm but by 10 or 11 I am ready for a full night of work or whatever. Sun comes up and bam, tired again.


I'm the same way man. Once that second wind hits its no sleep mode lol.


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## Gwhiliker (Oct 6, 2020)

had to do a bit of catchin up here, been so busy  really excited to see how the hps testing is going. that moving "sun" idea is crazy but i like it! once we get the December harvest we are gonna throw some hps in my dead corner like we spoke about and im really interested to see how it stacks compared to the cmh!
as for the no sleep i completely understand ive been drinking so much coffee getting everything put together that i find myself up reading and working on projects till 2 or 3. and a secret with the kraft, add some shredded cheddar and drain and toss in some diced jalapenos out of a can. found that out after a dab one night and ive never had it the original way sense
anyways good catching up nice to see you still doing well!


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## Renfro (Oct 6, 2020)

Gwhiliker said:


> add some shredded cheddar and drain and toss in some diced jalapenos out of a can


There are so many ways to spice up the Mac n Cheese, that sounds like a good one. Still though, I don't eat it much, just once in a while when I have a craving from childhood and then I want to have it like I remember it, plain jane. lol I am the type that eats a cheeseburger with nothing but cheese on it though.



Gwhiliker said:


> throw some hps in my dead corner like we spoke about


You planning on hanging it vertical with a bat wing reflector? I love side lighting. I have a bunch of LED's I put together to replace 400's that I use on the ends of my rows.



Save some watts, make less heat and give more even coverage. After I finish chopping room B, I will hang those and have them ready for next round. I have one already running and like the way it's working. Still have to do the power cords for these 7 but I am waiting until they are hung so I can get the lengths right as some will be a little longer than others but none will be as short as 6 or 8 feet.


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## Gwhiliker (Oct 6, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I want to have it like I remember it, plain jane.
> we all have to get our childhood back somehow when we need it lol





Renfro said:


> You planning on hanging it vertical with a bat wing reflector? I love side lighting. I have a bunch of LED's I put together to replace 400's that I use on the ends of my rows.


i think i wanted to do a couple (don't laugh i haven't researched if they even make these) 600w de hps fixtures to compare to everything else thats 650 or 630w in the room as i feel as its a fair comparison as i am looking for quality over yield but i don't want to sacrifice yield either. either way i haven't even begun to think of side lighting in this room, i just want to get everything converted to 240v and figure out and dial in everything perfect and get my genetics done. it's a fuck ton of work, which i expected but god damn  but when i say dead corner i have an area that's not quite lit as well as the rest of the room that i want to add hps under so i can position the tables a little more centered as opposed to just slammed against the wall(its all on wheels so thats all cake, couldn't afford rolling benches so i made some lol) they are on dark cycle atm so this is the best pic of the "dark area" i could find it has led but thats it


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## Renfro (Oct 6, 2020)

Gwhiliker said:


> (don't laugh i haven't researched if they even make these) 600w de hps fixtures


They make 600w DE HPS setups, they also make 630w DE CMH.


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## Gwhiliker (Oct 6, 2020)

Renfro said:


> They make 600w DE HPS setups, they also make 630w DE CMH.


oh good to know on the hps and i can't remember why but there was a reason i went with the dual 315 ballasts. to many dabs has me blanking on the reason atm.


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## Renfro (Oct 6, 2020)

Gwhiliker said:


> oh good to know on the hps and i can't remember why but there was a reason i went with the dual 315 ballasts. to many dabs has me blanking on the reason atm.


So you could mix bulb types?


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## Gwhiliker (Oct 6, 2020)

Renfro said:


> So you could mix bulb types?


Ya that's right was going for a bigger spectrum later on, was gonna try those 10k bulbs for a couple weeks when the tables were near cycle end


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## Renfro (Oct 6, 2020)

Gwhiliker said:


> Ya that's right was going for a bigger spectrum later on, was gonna try those 10k bulbs for a couple weeks when the tables were near cycle end


I haven't used a 10000K CMH but I have with DE MH and I really think the added UV boosts resin production and the extra blue increases density.


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## Gwhiliker (Oct 6, 2020)

Ya I think I want to try one 10k and one 3100k in each fixture and see how that goes, but after i get a normal product down a few grows and know what the difference is and not just speculating lol. Then I'll probably do one half of the table with one 10k and the ok ther leave alone to compare when I do. Or something, I have a lot of room for experimenting in there.


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## GrOwThMoNgeR (Oct 6, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I remember BOG (Bushy Old Grower) from the early 2000's from overgrow.com. He sent me some beans from australia, bogglegum was one of those. Good guy, great beans.


We were running bogglegum, loved that strain


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## ttystikk (Oct 6, 2020)

Renfro said:


> There are so many ways to spice up the Mac n Cheese, that sounds like a good one. Still though, I don't eat it much, just once in a while when I have a craving from childhood and then I want to have it like I remember it, plain jane. lol I am the type that eats a cheeseburger with nothing but cheese on it though.
> 
> 
> You planning on hanging it vertical with a bat wing reflector? I love side lighting. I have a bunch of LED's I put together to replace 400's that I use on the ends of my rows.
> ...


Those lights look sexy, bro. How many Watts? What color temp?


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## Renfro (Oct 6, 2020)

ttystikk said:


> Those lights look sexy, bro. How many Watts? What color temp?


CXM-22 3500K not driving them too hard, just a 240 watt driver but it's plenty of light for supplemental.


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## ttystikk (Oct 6, 2020)

Renfro said:


> CXM-22 3500K not driving them too hard, just a 240 watt driver but it's plenty of light for supplemental.


Very nice! I like spending a bit more up front to run more chips at lower wattage because you get your money back in efficiency. Driving chips really hard is a Mars Hydro move lol


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## Gwhiliker (Oct 11, 2020)

theres a bit of reading to find what I'm looking for, but are your nutrient charts based off a 30-gallon res with RO water? do you by chance have a chat for tap water and around a bout idea of whats in your water? i know it's in here but ill be damned if I can remember where


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## 2com (Oct 21, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Now I have the munchies and spotted a box of "kraft dinner" lol. mmmm haven't had that probably since sometime last year.


*memories*


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## F80M4 (Oct 21, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Well a unit that small wouldn't use 240 volt power here in the US. A 40 pint unit is the smallest they make I think. 500 watts could be about right. Dehumidifiers are basically small AC units with the condenser coil located indoors. I have a Quest dual 205 that requires a dedicated 20 amp 120 volt feed, above that their line goes to 240 volt. It pulls 13.2 amps at 120 volts (1584 watts) and is rated at 205 pints per day. Of course air temperature and humidity have a lot to do with how much it will actually pull. It is ran to a floor drain so I dunno how much it pulls other than to say "enough". lol


 You can use the water from the quest bro


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## Renfro (Oct 22, 2020)

F80M4 said:


> You can use the water from the quest bro


I am not hard up for water, I have used condensate back when stealth was required.


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## F80M4 (Oct 22, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I am not hard up for water, I have used condensate back when stealth was required.


I don't like being wasteful! Lol


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## Renfro (Oct 22, 2020)

So I put in some work breaking down the Ebb & Grow controller I bought to reverse engineer. As I had suspected it has some proprietary electronics internally, so I decided to use the controller on a larger sized container as my goal was to build an ebb and grow system that would utilize larger plant sites. This way I can obtain a deeper flood and have a larger root mass. I will use the 10 gallon carlisle bronco trash cans that I have been growing in with peat based mix. This will require a pretty large capacity reservoir and it will need more gallons per minute of pumping capability. I noted their pumps have the intake on the bottom of the pump, this allows the system to drain to a lower level as the pump is responsible for returning the nutrients to the reservoir between flood cycles.

Here is an image of the inside of the controller "bucket" unmodified.



As you can see there are three float switches on one side of the site.

Two switches are located down low and are used to detect level during the pump down (returning the nutrients to the reservoir). The system is in this mode most of the time, so adding water to a plant site between flood cycles would trigger the upper of those two float switches to activate the pump to return the added fluid to the reservoir. The lower of those two switches turns the pump off when the level has reached the low limit.

I am assuming the upper float switch is a backup switch to cause the system to pump down whenever the nutrients hit that high limit. The two floats that slide up and down on the plastic rods are responsible for the maximum flood depth. So during a flood cycle if the upper switch is activated by rising water level it will stop the pump and if the water drops low enough that the lower of those two switches drops the pump is activated to add more nutrients from the reservoir.

All in all it's a pretty slick setup. They definitely did not make it easy to break down, gluing the wires from all the float switches into the strain relief fitting took some patience to deal with and not damage the float switch wires.

I documented each switch one at a time as I disconnected them. This had to be done so I could take the float switches out of the holes in the controller bucket. It wasn't really required for the bobber style switches but I documented their connections anyway.

Here are a few images of my completed 10 gallon bucket controller. I still need to drill the holes to run 3/4" or 1" to the sites but that's all that remains other than drilling the lid for fittings to the reservoir. A few zip ties also for the float switch wires to tidy that up.



I had to figure out how to mount the bobber float switches so I got creative with some stainless steel angle brackets and some carbon fiber rods of the right diameter (3/8"). It's very stable and actually works better than I thought it would.

I am figuring that I will run multiple pumps in parallel to move the larger volume of nutrients unless I can find a larger pump with the bottom feed design that also meets the requirements for growing.

For shits and giggles here is a shot of the controller logic board, the "brain" IC doesn't even have any markings.



My biggest concern with the system is root clogs. Running the same buckets with the peat based mix I don't have a problem with roots getting down into the bottom bucket, if they do it's just a little and they don't try to clog the drain fitting. There is about a 3 inch air gap between the little bit of remaining nutrients and the bottom of the upper bucket with the plant.

I am considering running perlite as the medium unless someone can talk me into something else. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? I just don't want to wash that much LECA. lol


----------



## myke (Oct 22, 2020)

Oh my. What have you done? Is this for a test unit or your switching your rooms? Haven’t been keeping up.


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## ttystikk (Oct 22, 2020)

Renfro said:


> So I put in some work breaking down the Ebb & Grow controller I bought to reverse engineer. As I had suspected it has some proprietary electronics internally, so I decided to use the controller on a larger sized container as my goal was to build an ebb and grow system that would utilize larger plant sites. This way I can obtain a deeper flood and have a larger root mass. I will use the 10 gallon carlisle bronco trash cans that I have been growing in with peat based mix. This will require a pretty large capacity reservoir and it will need more gallons per minute of pumping capability. I noted their pumps have the intake on the bottom of the pump, this allows the system to drain to a lower level as the pump is responsible for returning the nutrients to the reservoir between flood cycles.
> 
> Here is an image of the inside of the controller "bucket" unmodified.
> 
> ...


Interesting! Why not just a simple pump from reservoir on a timer and a sump switch on a separate pump?


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## Renfro (Oct 22, 2020)

ttystikk said:


> Interesting! Why not just a simple pump from reservoir on a timer and a sump switch on a separate pump?


My whole plan was to look at the GH design on the controller and then be able to make a simple setup with a timer and double throw relay that would switch modes with float switches wired in to set the limits. I didn't figure they had a logic board, I just thought it would be a few relays or the like and that simply copying it would be easy enough. That said it's not a terribly bad deal at $210 considering you get the two pumps, 5 float switches, the timer and logic box, all the fittings and tubing to go to the reservoir. I figured they probably solved all the problems with such a setup, why re-invent the wheel lol. They definitely put some thought into the system, probably fixing issues I had not anticipated.

Anyways, I will see where this takes me as I am classifying it as an experiment lol.


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## ttystikk (Oct 23, 2020)

Renfro said:


> My whole plan was to look at the GH design on the controller and then be able to make a simple setup with a timer and double throw relay that would switch modes with float switches wired in to set the limits. I didn't figure they had a logic board, I just thought it would be a few relays or the like and that simply copying it would be easy enough. That said it's not a terribly bad deal at $210 considering you get the two pumps, 5 float switches, the timer and logic box, all the fittings and tubing to go to the reservoir. I figured they probably solved all the problems with such a setup, why re-invent the wheel lol. They definitely put some thought into the system, probably fixing issues I had not anticipated.
> 
> Anyways, I will see where this takes me as I am classifying it as an experiment lol.


I'll watch to see what you come up with! In my experience, I've found that engineers tend to overcomplicate a solution.


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## Hobbes (Oct 24, 2020)

.

I just spent 2 days reading the entire thread, lots pf great ideas!

.


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## Renfro (Oct 28, 2020)

Sometimes you just get geographicaly lucky. Today I went to a really cool place just 30 minutes away in Florence, CO. Persolite Products Inc. They sell perlite CHEAP! $7.50 for a 4 cuft bag.

Really cool people too. I enjoy doing business with places like this.


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## Renfro (Oct 28, 2020)

So I am going to try a new mix. I have a bunch of bags of the DNA Mills coco / cork that I need to use up but I don't want to run straight coco again.

3 Parts coco/cork
2 parts coarse perlite
1 part coarse vermiculite (this should help hold more water and decrease the frequency of watering a little.)

I might test a mix with a little more vermiculite in it as well, that shit holds a lot of water. Maybe a 3-2-2 mix.

Any thoughts?


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## Renfro (Oct 28, 2020)

So I made 3 different mixes to test this run using the DNA Mills Coco / Cork.

I will use this mix on one row and on the odd ball plants.

3 Parts coco/cork
2 parts coarse perlite
1 part coarse vermiculite 

One row will get this mix:

3 Parts coco/cork
3 parts coarse perlite
1 part coarse vermiculite 

The center row will get this mix:

3 Parts coco/cork
2 parts coarse perlite
2 part coarse vermiculite 

The center row is where they drink the fastest, maybe that extra vermiculite will help. I expect that center row to be pretty thirsty since it will have the 1500's on light rails moving down both sides. I really have no clue what the watering frequency will end up like on these mixes but I am fixin' to find out lol. Might end up wishing I had added more vermiculite to all of them.

Since I have the hookup on the Perlite I may try some straight perlite with some vermiculite perhaps. Maybe test straight perlite against perlite with some vermiculite? I might play with that some in veg first.

I have installed the light rails and 1500's in room B, changed out 5 of the six 400 watt HPS row end lights for 240 watt 6 cob setups that will give better coverage with less watts and less heat, allowing me to run the 1500's. I am considering moving the carbon filter thats in the corner so I can swap that 400 for a LED as I have three more of those fixtures built.

I have a few more fans on order as I am changing things up in there to facilitate even better air movement.

All in all this run will be a real experiment, always learning and trying new things keeps me from getting bored and frankly I am tired of fighting the pH on the different peat based mixes that are available and that is a variable even with the same product and different batches. I will be running the divine gelato 3 in the rows and probably mimosa for the 2 odd balls. Also considering giving the chem gro 4-20-39 stuff a try. See if they like that, but first I think I will stick with the GH just to figure out the new medium mix and then try the chem gro on a row to see how it compares.

Got some new cuts from my homey, one is the Pancakes. Probably be giving these a try in room A, I will be staggering these again.

Happy growing folks!


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## CloudHidden (Oct 29, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Sometimes you just get geographicaly lucky. Today I went to a really cool place just 30 minutes away in Florence, CO. Persolite Products Inc. They sell perlite CHEAP! $7.50 for a 4 cuft bag.
> 
> Really cool people too. I enjoy doing business with places like this.
> 
> View attachment 4727761


That's crazy! I'm only a little further (40 mins) away. Had no idea about them. Thanks for sharing.


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## Renfro (Oct 29, 2020)

CloudHidden said:


> That's crazy! I'm only a little further (40 mins) away. Had no idea about them. Thanks for sharing.


Bro, drop me a PM sometime, we should hookup for a sesh someday.


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## ttystikk (Oct 29, 2020)

Renfro said:


> So I made 3 different mixes to test this run using the DNA Mills Coco / Cork.
> 
> I will use this mix on one row and on the odd ball plants.
> 
> ...


I suggest looking into adding some biochar to your soil mix. It works wonders for buffering nutrients and pH.


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## Renfro (Nov 3, 2020)

Room B modification completed. 1500's on light rails, LED fixtures on row ends. Some new fans in the mix (ceiling).


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## Hobbes (Nov 3, 2020)

.

Looks good! 

Are those Timber LEDs?

.


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## Renfro (Nov 3, 2020)

Hobbes said:


> .
> 
> Looks good!
> 
> ...


They are DIY. CXM-22


----------



## Renfro (Nov 3, 2020)

So one initial observation on the chem-gro 4-20-39 after just mixing it up once.

You can't make any sort of mix thats rich enough to be considered a concentrate. You get this stuff wet it needs to be in a large volume of water thats being mixed as it's added. Failure to do this will cause some of the compounds in the bag to react and precipitate out. So this eliminates any possibility of using my magnetic stirring plate for this one.  Instead I just used a 10 gallon bucket and put about 5 gallons in with 60 grams of the 4-20-39 that I added while I was running a paint mixer on a 1/2" drill lol. Get it to about half speed and it's really churning but staying in the bucket, more and well, probably need a bigger bucket lol. I didn't see any precip after mixing. I tested about 30 grams in a liter of water on the stirring plate and you get a ton of precip. I don't know where the line is but my gut says don't try to get any richer than the 60 grams in 5 gallons.

I mixed the calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate on the stirring plate in about a liter of water and then added them the 30 gallon drum after the 4-20-39 is mixed in. I didn't see any issues with precip. So we will go from here and see if the plants get pissed or not I guess.

Trying to figure out what pH level they wanna be at, so far I have been going with 6.2 but if I see any mag def I will try raising the pH before just adding more magnesium, they are getting 2 grams per gallon of mag sulfate so there is no way I am not providing enough magnesium, if anything it's too much but I figured with the coco the extra 2/3 gram per gal over manufacturer mix instructions (1.33) should get me anywhere I need to be. lol

These are the manufacture baseline recommendations:



> -20-39 Recipe – For a great baseline would be 2 grams per gallon of 4-20-39, 2 grams per gallon of CaNO3 and 2/3 that amount of MgSO4 (1 1/3 gram per gallon). We suggest you try to keep your pH right around 6.2 for the duration but some fluctuations are not uncommon. During middle weeks of flower, you can add 1/3 the amount of MKP for extra K (potassium). Certain strains can tolerate a higher EC than others and you are welcome to push those strains if you like but we feel the base mixture will do a great job,


So my 30 gallons got 60 grams of 4-20-39, 60 grams of mag sulfate and 60 grams of cal nitrate.

I can see myself being very likely to increase the 4-20-39 a little and maybe backing off the epsom a tad. Right now as mixed it's only around 875 PPM with tap h2o so there is definitely room but lets see what they think.

Anyways, enough of my random babble. Happy growing to all you good ppl!  Stay safe from the 'VID


----------



## ttystikk (Nov 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> So one initial observation on the chem-gro 4-20-39 after just mixing it up once.
> 
> You can't make any sort of mix thats rich enough to be considered a concentrate. You get this stuff wet it needs to be in a large volume of water thats being mixed as it's added. Failure to do this will cause some of the compounds in the bag to react and precipitate out. So this eliminates any possibility of using my magnetic stirring plate for this one.  Instead I just used a 10 gallon bucket and put about 5 gallons in with 60 grams of the 4-20-39 that I added while I was running a paint mixer on a 1/2" drill lol. Get it to about half speed and it's really churning but staying in the bucket, more and well, probably need a bigger bucket lol. I didn't see any precip after mixing. I tested about 30 grams in a liter of water on the stirring plate and you get a ton of precip. I don't know where the line is but my gut says don't try to get any richer than the 60 grams in 5 gallons.
> 
> ...


I used their 5-11-26 mix and I did have some stuff settle. It didn't matter if I mixed it back into solution or not and the plants were happy either way.


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## Renfro (Nov 4, 2020)

ttystikk said:


> I used their 5-11-26 mix and I did have some stuff settle.


I ended up with a lot of precip. I let it settle in a 1 liter flask and it was about 1/2 inch deep on the bottom. Mixing it in the larger volume of water eliminated that issue so I should be good to go.


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## Renfro (Nov 4, 2020)

So far I am noticing that the vermiculite I added to the new mix has really helped the coco sustain longer watering intervals. Of course the real test will come in mid flower when the straight coco was needing water every 4 - 6 hours.

On a side note, my homey threw me some Animal Mints cuts to play with. He had given me an Animal Face cut that he gave me a few more of those as well. It's good to have buddies with the connections for breeder cuts, thats pretty much all he gets. Pancakes, Space Runtz and one called "Fire" lol. I guess room A is going to be a genetics test run, the Animal Face is supposed to be much like the Glue so I am stoked about that one, just got the cuts late so I won't have a row of it but maybe an odd ball plant or two? We will see, tough choices.

My back is killing me, gonna take a few dabs and veg out in front of a movie.


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## mistergrafik (Nov 4, 2020)

Animal Face .. I lost my only cuts during a move. Man I wish I still had her. Didn't have any of the colors I wanted on the pheno I got but nonetheless - Was able to flower one & it was heavy. Threw a few bananas late flower; there was a power outage that I blame for it but as always keep an eye amigo!

jumped to the future and subb'd to ur next grow fro. You should do something to achieve a full row of the face if not a room full


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## Renfro (Nov 4, 2020)

mistergrafik said:


> You should do something to achieve a full row of the face if not a room full


Thats what my buddy says, maybe I should take cuts of her for the next room B run? That would be next year but, if I go for a row of her now it would delay the start of room A by a few weeks and the plants I already potted would have age on them... I dunno, sometimes the logistics work themselves out in veg lol. Too many choices. I could also consider a tent run using the LED, maybe use the ebb and grow controller and setup one plant in there in a 10 gallon perlite bucket. lol


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## mistergrafik (Nov 4, 2020)

Renfro said:


> That would be next year but, if I go for a row of her now it would delay the start of room A by a few weeks


Could be worth a mother to full room! Next year isn't far away - and no delay on your room A ..

Or you could just blast one mega dank plant through to flower in the LED EBB & RENFLOW tent. 

Either way I'm subb'd. Me & my cat


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## Polyuro (Nov 5, 2020)

Just a thought, but have you tried covering your grow containers? I run sub-irrigated planters boxes and cover them. Soil evaporation starts at the soil surface and works downwards. A plastic cover over the top helps to create a rainforest effect trapping moisture evaporation and conserving water at the same time giving your dehumidifier a bit of a break. Feel free to ignore me. Your killing it!


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## Renfro (Nov 5, 2020)

Polyuro said:


> Just a thought, but have you tried covering your grow containers? I run sub-irrigated planters boxes and cover them. Soil evaporation starts at the soil surface and works downwards. A plastic cover over the top helps to create a rainforest effect trapping moisture evaporation and conserving water at the same time giving your dehumidifier a bit of a break. Feel free to ignore me. Your killing it!


I did try that with a few grows, (the last couple), and I didn't notice much difference in humidity or watering frequency.


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## ttystikk (Nov 5, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I ended up with a lot of precip. I let it settle in a 1 liter flask and it was about 1/2 inch deep on the bottom. Mixing it in the larger volume of water eliminated that issue so I should be good to go.


Wow that's a lot! I made a stock solution of 200g/gallon of the mix, using at least 8 gallons at a time. I used 5 gallon buckets and boxed them painter style to be sure everything was well mixed. I ended up with a thin layer of precipitate but nothing like that! I also started with hot water as that helps things dissolve more easily.

Double check the mfr's instructions; I originally ignored the step of making a stock solution and it was not a good move.


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## diggs99 (Nov 7, 2020)

whats up bud, hope all is well.


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## Renfro (Nov 7, 2020)

diggs99 said:


> whats up bud, hope all is well.


same shit, different day. you know the drill! lol How are you buddy?


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## Jenko (Nov 7, 2020)

What did you get in weight of the first grow??


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## RegularRhino (Nov 12, 2020)

I just finished reading all 92 pages of this thread... wow and thank you Renfro! I am so glad that some states are starting to allow cultivation outherwise so much of this accumulated knowledge would not be reaching as many people. I am also glad to see that you got you plant count increased a while back, that much talent needs to be fully utilized. Thanks again for taking the time to share here, I am subbed for sure!


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## farmingfisherman (Nov 12, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Room B modification completed. 1500's on light rails, LED fixtures on row ends. Some new fans in the mix (ceiling).
> 
> View attachment 4732959View attachment 4732963


Love the space and design you run. After my last plant I'm having a hard time growing with a tent again.


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## diggs99 (Nov 12, 2020)

Renfro said:


> same shit, different day. you know the drill! lol How are you buddy?


I’m good bro, just plugging along.

doing some changes/Reno’s to the garden-room.
About to toss some beans in to soak for the next batch. Covid has our small grow shop depleted, couldn’t get any coco and waiting on flood tables and parts for my eventual e&f setup. So the plan is to grow 4 monsters in soil for the next run, then hoping to switch to e&f for a round or two lol.

ordering some new gear from usefulfor the winter. Bean stock is getting low on my end.

glad your doing well. I got some ideas to bounce off you soon, I’ll hit you up when I’m ready for your answers lol.

take care buddy


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## cobshopgrow (Nov 13, 2020)

very nice to see you comparing different media mixes, seems you made a interessting choice.


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## Renfro (Nov 13, 2020)

Just an update on things.

I have been playing with the chem-gro 4-20-39 stuff and have found that this mix seems to be the best so far with the experimental coco mixes:

#'s in Grams Per Gallon
Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom) = 2.0 (may be able to lower)
4-20-39 = 2.5 (3 was definitely too much lol)
Calcium Nitrate = 2.0



I think the manufacturer recommended amount of epsom would probably be great unless using the coco, in that case a little bump from 1.33 to 2 grams per gallon seemed prudent. I am not sure that much is required though with my medium mix having a lot of perlite and vermiculite. I may try easing it back a little as I continue tweaking the mix.

The biggest thing is pH, in my veg room they have been getting a higher pH around 6.8 and they seem very happy. I tried using 6.2, 6.0, 5.8 on different rows and they seem to want something different so the last feed I did half the plants at 6.8 and the other half at 5.8. Will see how they react. I suspect I will need to feed high on the pH and that definitely seems odd but what they want is what they will get. Still tweaking and tuning for the medium but my being lazy and not ph'ing in the veg room seems to have pointed my in the right direction (up).

Once I nail the pH down to a finite number I will start trying to ease off the Epsom a little to find where it really needs to be, maybe I can get it down to 1.5 grams per gallon since the mixes I am running are < 50% coco.


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## cobshopgrow (Nov 13, 2020)

sounds your mixes arent overly high in cocos seems the cocos part contains lots of cork too ? (if were speaking of the 3 listed 2 pages back).
do your mix with the highest vermiculite amount do have the highest PH?
it can be a bit, or even more then a bit, alkaline.


THE pH OF VERMICULITE--THE SCHUNDLER COMPANY


do love vermiculite for several reasons, think the only dislike is the pretty high PH, interessting to hear it seems to be in your favor.
in the right mix it should be real good stuff for sure.


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## Renfro (Nov 13, 2020)

cobshopgrow said:


> sounds your mixes arent overly high in cocos seems the cocos part contains lots of cork too ? (if were speaking of the 3 listed 2 pages back).
> do your mix with the highest vermiculite amount do have the highest PH?
> it can be a bit, or even more then a bit, alkaline.
> 
> ...


Yeah I had issues with the coco/cork being really acidic on it's own. So perhaps the vermiculite is a good thing for that.


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## cobshopgrow (Nov 14, 2020)

sounds good, also it sounds like your plants doing well with a slight higher PH.
thinking youre right, cork+vermiculite = good mix.


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## natstonecold (Nov 22, 2020)

Hi Renfro, do you still use the feeding formula in page 1?


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## Hobbes (Nov 22, 2020)

.

Renfro do you have a thread on EC or TDS? I remember reading a thread but I can't find it again.

If you have one please post a link, thanks.

.


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## Gtjoker420 (Nov 22, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Room B modification completed. 1500's on light rails, LED fixtures on row ends. Some new fans in the mix (ceiling).
> 
> View attachment 4732959View attachment 4732963


Your setup is always looking so clean! looking good


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## Renfro (Nov 22, 2020)

Hobbes said:


> Renfro do you have a thread on EC or TDS? I remember reading a thread but I can't find it again.
> 
> If you have one please post a link, thanks.


I don't recall writing one:

EC (Electrical Condictivity) as typically quantified using an electronic EC/TDS/PPM meter is usually displayed in Siemens like 2.0 Siemens = 2000 uS (micro siemens) and can be converted to "PPM" with a multiplier. 0.5 multiplier closely replicates the mg/l (elemental PPM) of NaCl (table salt) although some meters use a 0.7 conversion from uS, so a 0.7 meter would read 1400 PPM where a 0.5 meter would read 1000 PPM.

2000 uS = 2.0 Siemens
2000 uS X 0.5 = 1000 PPM at 0.5 conversion
2000 uS X 0.7 = 1400 PPM @ 0.7 conversion.

Some meters even use a 0.64 conversion but they aren't that common.

True elemental PPM is a mg/L number.



natstonecold said:


> Hi Renfro, do you still use the feeding formula in page 1?


I could indeed use that but I am trying out the Chem-Grow 4-20-39 product currently.


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## MintyDreadlocks (Nov 22, 2020)

Renfro said:


> I don't recall writing one:
> 
> EC (Electrical Condictivity) as typically quantified using an electronic EC/TDS/PPM meter is usually displayed in Siemens like 2.0 Siemens = 2000 uS (micro siemens) and can be converted to "PPM" with a multiplier. 0.5 multiplier closely replicates the mg/l (elemental PPM) of NaCl (table salt) although some meters use a 0.7 conversion from uS, so a 0.7 meter would read 1400 PPM where a 0.5 meter would read 1000 PPM.
> 
> ...


how long have u been in the game bro? And what resources did you use (books, websites)


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## Renfro (Nov 22, 2020)

MintyDreadlocks said:


> how long have u been in the game bro? And what resources did you use (books)


since '89


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## MintyDreadlocks (Nov 22, 2020)

Renfro said:


> since '89


Are you sure you didn't create the plant? lmao. u gotta let me know what your favorite reads were.


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## Renfro (Nov 22, 2020)

MintyDreadlocks said:


> Are you sure you didn't create the plant? lmao. u gotta let me know what your favorite reads were.


Back then I learned what little I knew from Ed Rosenthal in High Times. Learned a lot on my own during the 90's. Wasn't until the early 2000's I got on Overgrow.com and did that for a few years but ditched any online presence during the years I was running several grow houses in Missouri. I kept totally off the radar during those years, didn't even want internet lol.


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## Smacker (Nov 29, 2020)

I’m finally current on the “Holy Renfro’s” grow logs. You sir are a scholar and a gentleman, thank you for sharing your wisdom with us commoners. lol


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## UnknownTran (Nov 29, 2020)

Finished your journal from start 3 times, and always learning something valuable every time. Learned a lot from you without every talking to you lol.
Cheers, will definitely be reading some more


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## F80M4 (Nov 30, 2020)

Hey Renfro, If I were have 3 rooms with 1 5ton hvac each can I cycle the air from one room to the other or should I leave it sealed?


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## DoubleAtotheRON (Nov 30, 2020)

@Renfro is def the real deal. If he gives you a piece of advise.. use it. He's never steered me wrong, and is very knowledgeable. Worst thing you can do is ask for advise, then do the exact opposite .. This is known as an "askhole".


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## Renfro (Nov 30, 2020)

F80M4 said:


> Hey Renfro, If I were have 3 rooms with 1 5ton hvac each can I cycle the air from one room to the other or should I leave it sealed?


Whats the reason for circulating the air between the rooms?


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## F80M4 (Dec 1, 2020)

Renfro said:


> Whats the reason for circulating the air between the rooms?


Heating the other rooms when lights are off it's cold in Canada! Do you think this is ideal? If not what do you suggest


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## Renfro (Dec 1, 2020)

F80M4 said:


> Heating the other rooms when lights are off it's cold in Canada! Do you think this is ideal? If not what do you suggest


It _could _be fine to do what you propose, at least as long as you don't have issues with warmer humid air mixing with cooler air and causing high RH%. With this chart you can see that air @ 82.4F and 50% RH contains 12.05 grams of H2O per kg of air. Now that same air cools off to lets say 73.4F the RH% would end up between 65 and 70%. In later flower those levels could cause issues with bud rot. Temperature and RH% fluctuation can promote powdery mildew as well.


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## sfsdfuturegrower (Dec 5, 2020)

Renfro said:


> It _could _be fine to do what you propose, at least as long as you don't have issues with warmer humid air mixing with cooler air and causing high RH%. With this chart you can see that air @ 82.4F and 50% RH contains 12.05 grams of H2O per kg of air. Now that same air cools off to lets say 73.4F the RH% would end up between 65 and 70%. In later flower those levels could cause issues with bud rot. Temperature and RH% fluctuation can promote powdery mildew as well.
> 
> Great grow journal, I finally made it . Glad you answered the question about circulating air between two rooms possibly causing rh issue. I was wondering if it made sense to do it but really like your reasoning about bud rot.
> 
> ...


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## Sif1 (Jan 27, 2021)

A couple of pics from New Zealand. Top, room 2, Just Hps 600, Bottom, room 1. About 20sq/m, Running 600's and Leds
e


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## Lucky Luke (Jan 27, 2021)

Sif1 said:


> A couple of pics from New Zealand. Top, room 2, Just Hps 600, Bottom, room 1. About 20sq/m, Running 600's and Leds
> eView attachment 4808496View attachment 4808501


Ballsy grow for NZ.


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## Sif1 (Jan 27, 2021)

Lucky Luke said:


> Ballsy grow for NZ.


Gotta keep the medicine flowing.


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## Chronicly ill (Jan 27, 2021)

how do you access the area for inspection, spraying etc? and how do you irrigate? Curious about the tables too, how they drain?


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## MidnightSun72 (Jan 27, 2021)

Renfro said:


> Room B modification completed. 1500's on light rails, LED fixtures on row ends. Some new fans in the mix (ceiling).
> 
> View attachment 4732959View attachment 4732963


Hey love your grow rooms they look so nice and clean. Does it drive you mad for the vertical hps bulbs to throw all that light on the ground? Compared to the LEDs for side lighting? This last cropI got in the oven I've been using LED side light and love the even size of bud all through the plants. I want to run vertical CMH between rows. But kind of mind fucking me to light the floor in the aisles. Do you feel the gain in yield from the side lighting is worth the loss to the floor? Or is it more an overall bud quality thing?


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## Sif1 (Jan 27, 2021)

Chronicly ill said:


> how do you access the area for inspection, spraying etc? and how do you irrigate? Curious about the tables too, how they drain?


In-room 1 the tables are on wheels and give about a 20 inches to access. Also, I have a special chair on wheels that I can sit on to access the lower area's. Works well.


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## Sif1 (Jan 27, 2021)

MidnightSun72 said:


> Hey love your grow rooms they look so nice and clean. Does it drive you mad for the vertical hps bulbs to throw all that light on the ground? Compared to the LEDs for side lighting? This last cropI got in the oven I've been using LED side light and love the even size of bud all through the plants. I want to run vertical CMH between rows. But kind of mind fucking me to light the floor in the aisles. Do you feel the gain in yield from the side lighting is worth the loss to the floor? Or is it more an overall bud quality thing?


"Does it drive you mad for the vertical hps bulbs to throw all that light on the ground? " Do you mean the horizontal lights beside the LEDs? Because of how room 1 is designed using sog I don't get light loss to the ground. In fact, light penetration is more an issue as I'm only running 600's. 1000,s would give me better penetration. I can take some pic's under the less compared to the hps,s. In regards to the quality of bud, I see two factors. The terpene profile from the led's looks better, but the yield looks lower. Not as dense as the HPS's.

Currently my main issue is controlling humidity and keeping an eye out for rot.


----------



## ttystikk (Jan 27, 2021)

Sif1 said:


> "Does it drive you mad for the vertical hps bulbs to throw all that light on the ground? " Do you mean the horizontal lights beside the LEDs? Because of how room 1 is designed using sog I don't get light loss to the ground. In fact, light penetration is more an issue as I'm only running 600's. 1000,s would give me better penetration. I can take some pic's under the less compared to the hps,s. In regards to the quality of bud, I see two factors. The terpene profile from the led's looks better, but the yield looks lower. Not as dense as the HPS's.
> 
> Currently my main issue is controlling humidity and keeping an eye out for rot.


Use 55-70% of the actual watts drawn from your LED lights as you would use for high intensity discharge lighting. Don't go by the label- "works like 1000W with only 220W!!"- go by the actual draw, so the 220W would do a good job of replacing a 315W CMH, but not anything bigger.

When you have the right light intensity in LED, you'll know because the terpene profile will be very good and the nugs will be hard and heavy.


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## Renfro (Jan 27, 2021)

MidnightSun72 said:


> Do you feel the gain in yield from the side lighting is worth the loss to the floor?


So what if a little bit of light is wasted, nothing is ever 100% efficient. Still, the gains far outweigh the cost. Keep in mind that the amount of light going down to the floor from the end of a vertical bare bulb is minimal compared to what is emitted from the sides of the bulb. I feel more light is wasted traveling along the aisle instead of perpendicular towards the plants. Still, the gains far outweigh the costs. A really cool idea I have is to make a reflector for the 1500's, something with a cone shape on the bottom where the end of the bulb is to send that light towards the plants and reflector material down each side of the bulb something like this >o< if you are looking at it from the top and the "o" is the bulb with the > < redirecting light that would otherwise travel along the aisle not towards the plants.

I firmly believe, light the room and let the plants grow to the light filling it out. The most wasteful period is the veg / stretch phase as most of the light doesn't hit a plant. If that light wasn't there though there would be no encouragement for the plants to fill the space out.



MidnightSun72 said:


> I want to run vertical CMH between rows.


How wide are the aisles between your rows? I have found that since the light goes in all directions you really need some power to hit the sides of the rows with strong light. A 600 watt HPS works ok in my aisles, if I put three of them along there it would be pretty good but a 1000 watter really blows the 600 away if just running a single lamp in my aisle. Right now my thing is 1500 watt bare vertical HPS on a light rail mover. This allows the light to travel the length of the row instead of just hanging in the center. With the 1500 I measure about 1100 umol at the side of the trellis rig, of course the plants grow outwards towards the light and those levels increase rapidly as the plants approach the lamp. Therefore, if the light wasn't on a mover it would be too much as the plants grow out of the side trellis and towards the center of the aisle. In my case I am prepared to switch the light to a 1000 watt HPS should the plants end up growing too far out the sides of the trellis rig.

In my particular configuration I feel that LED is best suited to the row end lights and perhaps overhead lighting. Any attempt to put a two sided LED setup in the aisle would be too bulky and limit my ability to move around. So HPS /MH is what I intend to run for the aisle lighting. Currently I am moving towards room B being all LED except for the 1500's on the light rails. I will probably replace the overhead DE's in there with LED before the heat of summer.

Lets say that overhead lighting (HPS in this case) results in a gram per watt of yield and lets say that side lighting only adds 0.5 grams per watt. At current prices even at only 0.5 grams per watt of side lighting is profitable, if adding a 400 watt HPS on the row end only added 200 grams of yield it would definitely be profitable. Without the end light I might pull a few ounces of not so well lit flower off the end, or just prune most of it off but with the end light I get "about a pound" off a row end, thats definitely well worth the 360 kWh (about $40 in my case) that the 400 watt lamp would consume over 75 days of 12/12. With three rows (6 plants) in a room that adds up to a good 6 pounds of additional flower. On average an additional 14 pounds is generated with the side canopy in one 6 plant room. For many grows with just 6 plants that would be the entire yield but in my case add that to another 12 pounds from the top canopy and you have a room thats capable of pulling 25 pounds off 6 plants.

My goal is to pull as much as possible out of the space / plant count. I would only pull around 16 - 18 pounds if I were to eliminate the rows and make it impossible to walk around in there, add some overhead lighting and just focus on overhead canopy running more plants that aren't as tall (no reason for height if it's all lollipopped off). So the side canopy not only enables me to move around in there it makes for more canopy.


----------



## cobshopgrow (Jan 27, 2021)

Sif1 said:


> A couple of pics from New Zealand. Top, room 2, Just Hps 600, Bottom, room 1. About 20sq/m, Running 600's and Leds
> eView attachment 4808496View attachment 4808501


thanks, fat grow there, you may wanna show us closeups of the led section compared to a closeup of a HPS section ?


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## Sif1 (Jan 27, 2021)

Has anyone tried dropping from 600W to 400W coming into the last week or two before harvest?


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## MidnightSun72 (Jan 27, 2021)

Renfro said:


> So what if a little bit of light is wasted, nothing is ever 100% efficient. Still, the gains far outweigh the cost. Keep in mind that the amount of light going down to the floor from the end of a vertical bare bulb is minimal compared to what is emitted from the sides of the bulb. I feel more light is wasted traveling along the aisle instead of perpendicular towards the plants. Still, the gains far outweigh the costs. A really cool idea I have is to make a reflector for the 1500's, something with a cone shape on the bottom where the end of the bulb is to send that light towards the plants and reflector material down each side of the bulb something like this >o< if you are looking at it from the top and the "o" is the bulb with the > < redirecting light that would otherwise travel along the aisle not towards the plants.
> 
> I firmly believe, light the room and let the plants grow to the light filling it out. The most wasteful period is the veg / stretch phase as most of the light doesn't hit a plant. If that light wasn't there though there would be no encouragement for the plants to fill the space out.
> 
> ...


About 2ft between rows. But I am going to tables so they will love around. So I wanna set the lighting up for that. I've been looking at the metal halid 400W high bay reflectors to adapt for my 315W because it reduces fixture width. A big problem with the LED frames is how much head room they take up its hard to hang other fixtures at the same height without running out of space. Keeping my lights about 30-36" above final canopy. 

I wasn't questioning like it was bad I was curious as to the reasoning lol. That's all. I didn't know they were on movers which is pretty cool. What's the umol/j on the 1500w hps?


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## Sif1 (Jan 27, 2021)

cobshopgrow said:


> thanks, fat grow there, you may wanna show us closeups of the led section compared to a closeup of an HPS section ?


Get some pic's for you tomorrow. And will take some where the hps/led crossover occurs.


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## cobshopgrow (Jan 28, 2021)

have no expectations, just curious to see and think you have a very nice showcase there.
btw. i do think it makes sense to go a bit lower the last 2 weeks otherwise you often have problem to get them ripe (foxtails).
depneds on the intensity youre running of course.


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## Ebenezer Kong (Jan 28, 2021)

Sif1 said:


> Has anyone tried dropping from 600W to 400W coming into the last week or two before harvest?


I’m using the growcraft fixtures and have scaled back the wattage toward the end as of late. Can’t say that I’ve noticed a huge difference yet but I’m comparing. Like most things it may end up being strain dependent


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## Sif1 (Jan 28, 2021)

cobshopgrow said:


> have no expectations, just curious to see and think you have a very nice showcase there.
> btw. i do think it makes sense to go a bit lower the last 2 weeks otherwise you often have problem to get them ripe (foxtails).
> depneds on the intensity youre running of course.


Most rooms run 20 to 25 600's. I'm thinking of dropping them back to the 400W settings. Comments welcome.


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## kingromano (Jan 28, 2021)

Sif1 said:


> Has anyone tried dropping from 600W to 400W coming into the last week or two before harvest?


you don't want to reduce light intensity the last week

at this stage plants have the bigger needs in light
thats how you get dense buds and lot of resin


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## Renfro (Jan 28, 2021)

@PadawanWarrior should I just tell him that I can talk to plants and therefore have the inside scoop on what they crave? lol


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## Renfro (Jan 28, 2021)

kingromano said:


> you don't want to reduce light intensity the last week
> 
> at this stage plants have the bigger needs in light
> thats how you get dense buds and lot of resin


Really it all depends I guess, if you are pushing the plants hard with really intense light and high CO2 PPM / temps during mid flower bulking phase then I have found reducing the light intensity, temperature and CO2 PPM during the ripening phase makes for denser nugs with MORE yield, better terpene content and less instances of fox tailing. If things aren't being pushed to those extremes then a reduction is probably not as beneficial. When an old timer shared this knowledge with me it was hard for me to learn that less is often more but once I learned I never looked back. At first it was hard to make myself turn things down, always thinking more = more.


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## 2com (Jan 28, 2021)

Renfro said:


> When an old timer shared this knowledge with me it was hard for me to learn that less is often more but once I learned I never looked back. *At first it was hard to make myself turn things down, always thinking more = more.*


I guess I'm now "you", and you're the "Old timer".
Thanks.


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## Renfro (Jan 28, 2021)

2com said:


> I guess I'm now "you", and you're the "Old timer".
> Thanks.


Well hopefully you pick it up with less resistance than I provided. lol It took me several years to truly embrace what he was laying down.


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## Kushash (Jan 28, 2021)

Renfro said:


> @PadawanWarrior should I just tell him that I can talk to plants and therefore have the inside scoop on what they crave? lol


You must be a hydro grower because soil growers talk to the microbes not the plant. 
They tell me what they want for dinner in terms I can understand.

EWC = Steak
Crab Meal = Crab Legs
Gypsum = Mashed Potatoes

Blood Meal = Wine
Epsom Salt = Beer


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## Sif1 (Jan 29, 2021)

Renfro said:


> Really it all depends I guess, if you are pushing the plants hard with really intense light and high CO2 PPM / temps during mid flower bulking phase then I have found reducing the light intensity, temperature and CO2 PPM during the ripening phase makes for denser nugs with MORE yield, better terpene content and less instances of fox tailing. If things aren't being pushed to those extremes then a reduction is probably not as beneficial. When an old timer shared this knowledge with me it was hard for me to learn that less is often more but once I learned I never looked back. At first it was hard to make myself turn things down, always thinking more = more.


Thanks Renfro, As usual, your advice and info is next level. Cheers.


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## MidnightSun72 (Jan 29, 2021)

Renfro said:


> Really it all depends I guess, if you are pushing the plants hard with really intense light and high CO2 PPM / temps during mid flower bulking phase then I have found reducing the light intensity, temperature and CO2 PPM during the ripening phase makes for denser nugs with MORE yield, better terpene content and less instances of fox tailing. If things aren't being pushed to those extremes then a reduction is probably not as beneficial. When an old timer shared this knowledge with me it was hard for me to learn that less is often more but once I learned I never looked back. At first it was hard to make myself turn things down, always thinking more = more.


Do you dim your lights? or do you shorten the day (ie. hit your DLI in 10h instead of 12. And kill the lights. )? I've seen both methods proposed. What do you think is good?
Either way it saves watts. If it doesn't hurt yield that's an awesome bonus.


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## PadawanWarrior (Jan 29, 2021)

Renfro said:


> @PadawanWarrior should I just tell him that I can talk to plants and therefore have the inside scoop on what they crave? lol


Is your real name Joe? Or are you Not Sure?


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## Onymous21 (Jan 30, 2021)

Renfro said:


> @PadawanWarrior should I just tell him that I can talk to plants and therefore have the inside scoop on what they crave? lol


It’s got electrolytes


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## ttystikk (Jan 31, 2021)

Kushash said:


> You must be a hydro grower because soil growers talk to the microbes not the plant.
> They tell me what they want for dinner in terms I can understand.
> 
> EWC = Steak
> ...


Why did I read this and suddenly get hungry?


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## Sif1 (Feb 1, 2021)

ttystikk said:


> Why did I read this and suddenly get hungry?


because its wank


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## Sif1 (Feb 6, 2021)

cobshopgrow said:


> thanks, fat grow there, you may wanna show us closeups of the led section compared to a closeup of a HPS section ?


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## cobshopgrow (Feb 6, 2021)

closeups looking very good (those are from leds?).
the hps section have a bit more bulk if am right.
any opinion from you?


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## Sif1 (Feb 7, 2021)

cobshopgrow said:


> closeups looking very good (those are from leds?).
> the hps section have a bit more bulk if am right.
> any opinion from you?


The first two pics are from LEDS. But remember that room has a blend of led/hps. Thye last pic is a room with just hps.


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## Sif1 (Feb 12, 2021)

Sif1 said:


> The first two pics are from LEDs. But remember that room has a blend of led/hps. Thye last pic is a room with just hps.


Leds are coming in much lighter than HPS's. Will only use in the veg room in future.


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## Southernontariogrower (Feb 16, 2021)

Renfro said:


> Day 24


Those are awesome! Love your setup!


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## UpstateRecGrower (Feb 27, 2021)

Renfro said:


> I was talking to my buddy and he has an $800 pack of Candy Rain beans that he is gonna bust and we will run them in my tent to pick a bad ass mother plant.


How did candy rain yield for you?


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## Wattzzup (Feb 27, 2021)

Sunni just out to get him?


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## Wattzzup (Feb 27, 2021)

He kinda ruined the thread by leaving


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## a mongo frog (Feb 27, 2021)

crisnpropa said:


> This label gets thrown around a lot these days. It's very harmful. Seems like narcissistic gaslighting.


What label?


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## arcalion (Feb 27, 2021)

uwu


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## Dividedsky (Feb 28, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> Yes, Renfro's gone. Luckily I have his cell. I would hate to lose him as a source of information. He was my most valuable source on here. But you can find him on Overgrow now.


What Renfro is gone!!! Wtf happened? Love this thread. This thread is a must read for anyone venturing into bigger build grows, there's such valuable info in here.


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## Wattzzup (Feb 28, 2021)

sunni said:


> Today in rollitup
> 
> ban a racist
> 
> ...


So she saw it with her own eyes. Are you guys calling @sunni a liar?


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## insomnia65 (Feb 28, 2021)

Shocked


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## Wattzzup (Feb 28, 2021)

insomnia65 said:


> Shocked


As was I because he’s helped me before. However I did not report him I sent him a PM saying I thought it was screwed up. To which he said he doesn’t care, he’s not racist because hes had sex with women of all races blah blah blah. So yeah bye Felicia


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## insomnia65 (Feb 28, 2021)

Some people have strange f upped views true enough. But as a species humans must grow, there is a great responsibility for us and our children, let's hope we can live up to it, David Attenborough said some scarey stuff to the UN.


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## Medskunk (Feb 28, 2021)

An underrated notion is that if you dont "move" you dont learn/ comprehend. But then again if you dont "stay" with the issue, how on earth you gonna realise your bs

2


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## sunni (Feb 28, 2021)

He had a temper tantrum and asked for his account deleted after we removed a racist comment by him which he claims was a "joke"
He couldve just moved on, but he wanted his accounted deleted so i complied, we dont delete accounts but we ban them.

It was not reported comment it was a comment i read, while doing my daily modding, 
it was racist.
it was asked to be stop

Instead of just stopping he had a meltdown on his profile page and demanded to have his account ruined


it was not politics it was regular forum. 
therewas no gas lighting or victimizing

i didnt pick on him.


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