# Selecting Our Best Phenotypes?.



## Sunbiz1 (May 24, 2013)

How am I to accomplish this when I don't know what's what until the ladies are well into flowering stage?.

Up until now, I'll run 2 packs of beans or so looking for a mother...which is selected based upon strength of vegetation. Yet, the strongest looking lady isn't necessarily what I'm looking for. For example, last year I ran herijuana several times and finally stumbled upon a second and more desired pheno. But I didn't know what I had until it was damn near finished. Cloning certain strains can be a challenge in itself, but late in flowering would take forever and a day to grow roots and re-veg...if it would even work at all.

TY in advance for any input, 

Peace


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## Pepe le skunk (May 24, 2013)

Phenotype- is the composite of an organisms observable characteristics or traits. Phenotypes result from the expression of an organism's genes as well as the influence of environmental factors and the interactions between the two. 

Cloning is the best way to select a pheno out of multiple plants grown from seed. Use 2 different cloning methods so if one fails the other might work. The best thing I can tell you with clones is after you replant them with roots showing(14-21 days), keep them in a more humid area for 3-7 days extra. At 50% humidity. I don't let the fan blow on them for this time except for day 4 for like 20 minutes just to exchange the air.

Pheno hunting:
You have already selected or have started to look at some of the characteristics your strain has shown within it's genes and might not have realized it. From what you said above these two statements:
"selected based upon strength of vegetation"
"stumbled upon a second and more desired pheno"

Vigor is what I suppose you are referring to when you say "strength of vegetation". And the "second and more desired pheno" but you didn't specify what made it more desirable. 
A good example is 2 different Cherry Bomb Indica's I have found. One is much taller and faster growing, the other is shorter, branch-er, more compact, and has close internode spacing. I made clones of the tall one but have yet to flower them out. The shorter one has started to show white hairs already and I haven't even clone her yet. Both might end up being killer but I am banking that the short one is going to be the keeper because it has the growth caracteristics and just looks killer. So in veg these are just some of the things you could look at and choose to make it a mother. But you always want to take a few clones to check what you have. You can always flower out a small clone to check the sex and then write down your findings on the small clone as it completes it's cycle. By the time the clone finishes you can have the remaining clones and the mother ready to go for the next round. 

If it turns out not so great then you can always turn it into butter or hash. What you see and how the final product turns out are what you can use as a guide. You also want to determine what you want from the strain. Smell, taste, bud structure, time in flower til ripe, effect are just some of the things you might use in finding a keeper. Have a goal. An example could be if you want to try and breed or if your just looking for a superior female to keep. Just make sure you write it down so you don't forget what the results are and what you find to be most appealing about the strain.
There are a million and one things that can make a select female great. You just need to decide what you want.
Hope that helps.


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## Sunbiz1 (May 24, 2013)

TY above, I'm dialed-in on cloning. What I will do from now on is to simply take cuttings from every female, which seems to be the best avenue provided one has enough room. Yes, I was referring to vigor. The more desired recessive herijuana pheno yields almost double the dominant, it is also on the fruitier side as opposed to the coffee/chickory dominant flavor some people don't care for. I'd have to run at least 20-30 heri beans to find that one again, assuming 50% male which has been the past rate. 

TY again


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## ta2drvn (May 24, 2013)

Can be tricky, best advice I can give is let them go right up to flower eliminate the phenos that look most similar and uniformed, and take a clone off all the ones with slight variations, this can help keep plant numbers reasonable if needed, instead of cuttings of every plant. All the uniform plants keep one or two clones and hope the keeper is not one of the ones you didnt take cuts from and if it is you can just reveg, while you are flowering out the extra clones you have left over. 

Or like you said, if you have the room take from all and lable really good or flower all the cuttings as soon as they root to find the keeper.


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## BustinScales510 (May 25, 2013)

The way I do it (which requires ample veg space/light), is I grow the seed plants with veg schedule lighting until they are showing preflowers, I take about 5 or 6 clones off each female and wait until they root..at which point I throw away the original seed plants.

I flower one or two each of the clones and keep a clone of each pheno in veg. During flowering if any of them herm or its obvious they will yield horribly I throw them away as well as the corresponding mother plant. Once flowering is done and Ive sampled them, I have a healthy mother of any keeper pheno I want to work with again.


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## cannawizard (May 25, 2013)

Sunbiz1 said:


> How am I to accomplish this when I don't know what's what until the ladies are well into flowering stage?.
> 
> Up until now, I'll run 2 packs of beans or so looking for a mother...which is selected based upon strength of vegetation. Yet, the strongest looking lady isn't necessarily what I'm looking for. For example, last year I ran herijuana several times and finally stumbled upon a second and more desired pheno. But I didn't know what I had until it was damn near finished. Cloning certain strains can be a challenge in itself, but late in flowering would take forever and a day to grow roots and re-veg...if it would even work at all.
> 
> ...


I feel ya, poppin beans and growing them out just to see which phenos to keep and which to discard can get a lil hectic if grow space is an issue.,
Pretty much I just take a cutting or two of each plant before they go into flower, then label those. 
And during harvest ill either keep those cuttings or discard them depending on which phenos passed the cutting board..

Thats why I was always interested in tissue cloning.. anything to speed up (or further simplify) the cloning process would be great~


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## ta2drvn (May 25, 2013)

cannawizard said:


> Thats why I was always interested in tissue cloning.. anything to speed up (or further simplify) the cloning process would be great~


 Me too, been wanting to get a kit for a while now, think I may get one in the near future.


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## fatboyOGOF (May 26, 2013)

Sunbiz1 said:


> How am I to accomplish this when I don't know what's what until the ladies are well into flowering stage?.
> 
> Up until now, I'll run 2 packs of beans or so looking for a mother...which is selected based upon strength of vegetation. Yet, the strongest looking lady isn't necessarily what I'm looking for. For example, last year I ran herijuana several times and finally stumbled upon a second and more desired pheno. But I didn't know what I had until it was damn near finished. Cloning certain strains can be a challenge in itself, but late in flowering would take forever and a day to grow roots and re-veg...if it would even work at all.
> 
> ...



now that i'm legal i have a plant limit but when i was a super criminal i would take 2 clones of every seedling. i test every plant, kill those i don't want and end up with the best i have. unfortunately, even with the greatest care, many times the F2 buds just aren't as good as the F1s. 

i was just going over one of my threads from 2006 (another place) and i was very happy with some new genetics i got. some really nice stuff. fast forward a few years and i ran a bunch of F2s of a couple of them, i was disappointed. 

they are ok, but the highs were not up to the F1s and I tossed them.

it's a crap shoot. 

the secret, is to shoot a lot.


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## Sunbiz1 (May 29, 2013)

fatboyOGOF said:


> now that i'm legal i have a plant limit but when i was a super criminal i would take 2 clones of every seedling. i test every plant, kill those i don't want and end up with the best i have. unfortunately, even with the greatest care, many times the F2 buds just aren't as good as the F1s.
> 
> i was just going over one of my threads from 2006 (another place) and i was very happy with some new genetics i got. some really nice stuff. fast forward a few years and i ran a bunch of F2s of a couple of them, i was disappointed.
> 
> ...


You cloned and found end yield to have reduced potency?.

Surely genetic drift could not occur this quickly?...at least it damn well better not cuz' I have Grandchildren in the ground from a pheno I like.

I guess they are considered F-3's, yet I always assumed the f rating to be more of a bean application.


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## kindnug (May 29, 2013)

I've never heard of new cuts of clones being a new Filial generation...only applies to beans
I've also never had the genetic drift others speak of!

Healthy clones from mature plants should be a copy of the origin plant.
Even ugly clones can recover + grow identical to the mother. Just IME


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## Sunbiz1 (May 29, 2013)

kindnug said:


> I've never heard of new cuts of clones being a new Filial generation...only applies to beans
> I've also never had the genetic drift others speak of!
> 
> Healthy clones from mature plants should be a copy of the origin plant.
> Even ugly clones can recover + grow identical to the mother. Just IME


There was once a loooong thread here recently on drift, which takes about 10,000 years or so. But it concerned me enough to pose the question on a different breeding site a few months back, before I even cloned the clones. The answer was in line with your experiences.


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## kindnug (May 29, 2013)

What I do is take 2-4 clones of each bean plant >depending on how successful you are but keep the best 1-2 that root for mothers.

After you determine keepers by samples of air-dried terminal bud(closer to the top)>
Then you can trash the ones that aren't keepers or flower them out + don't clone them.
You can always make hash/BHO if the plant-matter isn't smoke-able.


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## fatboyOGOF (May 29, 2013)

Sunbiz1 said:


> You cloned and found end yield to have reduced potency?.
> 
> Surely genetic drift could not occur this quickly?...at least it damn well better not cuz' I have Grandchildren in the ground from a pheno I like.
> 
> I guess they are considered F-3's, yet I always assumed the f rating to be more of a bean application.


no no. the F2 seeds i made were not as good as the F1 genetics. lol the clones were fine.


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## kindnug (May 29, 2013)

It could be that the parents you used weren't as good as the one before. Not sure your breeding practices.


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