# BHOE comparrison: Honey Bee vs 1/2" Copper Pipe - Pictures



## Hobbes (Feb 6, 2010)

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The Honey Bee is beautifully made and a pleasure to use but it's relative wide diameter to it's length makes it an inefficient butane honey oil extractor. I did a test of equal weight samples (~28 grams) and got an additional ~35% honey oil using a longer but smaller diameter extractor pipe.

At 1 3/8" Inside Diameter and 5" inside length the Honey Bee has an area of 1.5" square and a voume of 7.42" cube. A 1/2" diameter pipe has an area of 0.2". The Honey Bee cross section has 7.5 X the area of the 1/2" pipe, so each piece of plant mater in the 1/2" pipe would be touched by 7.5 X the butane as the leaf in the Honey Bee. Butane acts as a non polar solvent - it does not absorb the cannaboids as does oil - therefore it will continue to dissolve resin as it passes through more and more leaf.

For a 1/2" diameter pipe to have a 7.42" cube volume, as the Honey Bee, the pipe would have to be 38" long. However, the column of leaf in the 1/2" diameter pipe is denser than in the 5" x 1 3/8" Honey Bee because the weight of the tall column compacts the leaf below. Settling during the loading process makes the same weight of baked leaf settle at ~30" in the 1/2" pipe. For this test the Honey Bee took 28.2 grams of baked fan leaf, the 1/2" x 30" took 27.9 grams.

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My Equipment and 56 grams of baked fan leaf. I used 1 can of butane per pipe per extraction.







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A wax seal for the 1/2" x 30" copper pipe cap - eliminates spray.







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Everything packed and ready to go. The copper tube wax seal is secured by masking tape, a white butane adapter jammed hard in the end. A double coffee filter is secured to the pipe with a hose clamp on the other end. I put them both out in -15C in a plastic bag for two hours to cool the leaf before extracting.







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1/2" Extractor. The oil always looks green at first. The butane just pours and drips out of the bottom.







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The Honey Bee. It sprays the butane out under a small amount of pressure.







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I boil the butane off in a tub of hot water. Everything, extraction and boiling off, is done out doors in the open. No electricity, no flames, no wool.







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I leave the Pyrex trays in the hot water for 10 or 15 minutes after the butane is boiled off to expand any gas trapped in the oil. I bake it in the oven at 106C for 5 or 10 minutes after wards to be sure no gas is left.







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After baking, the Honey Bee 







and the 1/2" x 30" copper pipe.







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0.7 grams for the Honey Bee







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1.0 grams for the 1/2" x 30" pipe







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My scale goes to tenths of a gram only, so I'm going to call it 2.5 grams instead of 3. 2.5/7 = 35% more extract using a narrower tube.

The fan leaf had few trichomes, little oil to get with even the best extraction. I think the difference would be higher using high quality leaf or bud.

Conclusion: I love the Honey Bee, beautifully made and simple, but I'd never use it because it's inefficient. As well, though it sports a "Made In Canada" label that does not mean that it was entirely made according to Canadian standards.

*"Made in Canada is defined as having the last major transformation done in Canada. Any product that has more than 2 per cent foreign content will have the Made in Canada label but, it will have to also have the stipulation of either: "...from domestic and imported ingredients" or "...from imported ingredients." *

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## Hobbes (Feb 6, 2010)

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## Hobbes (Feb 11, 2010)

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I copied this post from another thread where there were some safety issues I wanted to address and had to do some research to get some of the information I wanted. I put some work into it so I want to keep it in a thread of my own so I don't loose track of it. I learned all of this information from Phife and his crew on Overgrow ten or fifteen years ago, I just remember the important stuff (don't use pvc, don't get blow'd up) so I had to refresh my memory. They had chemist in the thread and went into much greater detail than my limited knowledge allows.

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Sorry for intruding on your thread gwerns. 

I'm not sure if the pictures and instructions are yours or if you copied them, I assumed you were looking for a discussion on BHOE. Normally I'd just leave with my apology, but ....

There are two critical errors in the extraction process shown that will cause death and/or a long visit to the intensive care unit before going to prison; and a third error that will just attack your organs over time. I think this is information that everyone reading the thread should know, including yourself. 

1. Death and/or ICU 

*Never, ever, for any reason, extract indoors*. Butane is heavier than air and will sink, even with an open window and a fan you WILL get butane pools. Electrical outlets, appliances, the fridge might turn on, the heating system. Outdoors only, no garage, no barn, no doghouse. Remember the guys who blew the doors off their garage a couple months back? 

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...206/story.html







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2. Death. If you stop at the ICU for a bit you'll probably just wish for death.

a:* Never, ever, for any reason, boil off butane indoors. *
b: *Never, ever, for any reason, boil off butane with a heat source (the burner) that can reach butanes flash point (788F) or has has a flame*. 

Most burners won't reach 788 but I've seen red hot sparks when moving pans around the burner which would ignite butane gas. Not worth it. Even if you're using a double boiler, the butane as a gas is going to sink in air because it's heavier. Below the double boiler is the burner or flame. Use a tub of hot water - outdoors.

"Keep on a low heat and turn on your fan now to keep the area well ventillated!" - very dangerous advice. 







Is that is a flame stove?

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3. Organ damage.

Butane leaches chemicals out of PVC over time. PVC was not designed for BHOE. PVC contains a host of dangerous chemicals as well as lead, cadmium and other heavy metals - which will stay in your body and build up over time. 

Heavy Metal Toxicity:http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C15891.html

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"[FONT=Arial,verdana]*Does PVC pipe contain hazardous chemicals?*[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,verdana]The concerns about hazardous chemicals in PVC centre on the use of heavy metal stabilisers (typically Cadmium and Lead) and plasticisers in flexible PVC products (such as phthalates). There are many reports that question the level of concern with respect to these chemicals in PVC."[/FONT] 

"[FONT=Arial,verdana]*Should I be concerned about VCM?*[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,verdana]Consumers are not at risk from exposure to VCM. VCM is only present in the polymer raw material stage.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,verdana]VCM is known to cause a rare form of liver cancer after prolonged high level exposure. The only known deaths as a consequence of contact with VCM have occurred to people involved in the manufacture of PVC. [/FONT]"

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You are using a non polar super critical solvent on these pipes. They will leach those chemicals and heavy metals into your honey oil, a little at a time, so you'd never notice until you've reached toxic build up.

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gwerns you made beautiful oil but eventually you're going to get blow'd up real good if you don't change your process from what's shown in the pictures. 

Best of luck, BHOE kicks making cannabutter's ass, so many uses for the resin. I've made corn syrup candies that are unreal, highly recommend it. When I want brownies from my Volcano dregs I do a BHOE and have amazing tasty brownies. A great process.

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https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/297198-hash-oil-101-quick-ez.html

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## rollmeUPoneSCOTTY! (Feb 11, 2010)

Hobbes said:


> .
> 
> I copied this post from another thread where there were some safety issues I wanted to address and had to do some research to get some of the information I wanted. I put some work into it so I want to keep it in a thread of my own so I don't loose track of it. I learned all of this information from Phife and his crew on Overgrow ten or fifteen years ago, I just remember the important stuff (don't use pvc, don't get blow'd up) so I had to refresh my memory. They had chemist in the thread and went into much greater detail than my limited knowledge allows.
> 
> ...







yo thanks hobbes. 


right on


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## weedninja (Feb 16, 2010)

how many oz. butane can is that?


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## Secret Jardin (Feb 16, 2010)

This is my extractor It works great! I got 3.2 grams from 46g of Sugar leaf. It was my first time so I am not sure how good that is but I am very pleased with the results.


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## Hobbes (Apr 7, 2010)

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That extractor is beautiful Jardin. Did you make or buy it? A link or instructions would be appreciated!

What do you extract into? Do you use pyrex? Is there a lot of pressure on the legs? Worry about breaking the dish or is the extractor not sitting in the dish during extraction? Is that a plastic or rubber stopper with a hole in it?

Thanks

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## Hobbes (Apr 7, 2010)

*How to Make Butane Honey Oil*

Contributed by: *Phife* 
Submitted: November 27th, 2004 
Images archived: 2005 

*Disclaimer* 
​  Butane Honey Oil (BHO) extraction is an extremely dangerous activity. Butane is flammable, explosive and can potentially contain poisonous and harmful chemicals. Undertaking BHO extraction may result in serious bodily injury, or Death. The information provided on this website is strictly for educational purposes and in no  way do the owners and staff of Overgrow.com encourage its production or use. 

*Safety* 

Butane is Highly Flammable and ALL extractions are to be done Outdoors Only, doing extractions indoor is extremely dangerous. There have been accounts of people blowing up their houses, kitchens, and bathrooms doing Butane and other solvent extractions indoors! 

Butane gas is heavier than air and will pool in low areas, if left to collect butane gas becomes flammable when it reaches 1.8% to 8.5% concentration in air. A small breeze will keep the butane from being able to pool and become dangerous. 

It is recommended you take every precaution possible. Wearing Safety Equipment such as Eye protection, as well as gloves and always keep a fire extinguisher near by. 

Nothing is more important than your safety! 
Do all butane extractions Outdoors or in Very well ventilated areas. 

Never Smoke, have an open flame or source of ignition around when doing any kind of extraction, even outdoors 

Avoid static build up and even a small spark in the right conditions can be dangerous. 

*Butane & Health* 

It has been talked about a lot lately, some brand of butane add a smell to their butane. This smell is usually added to the butane so that humans can detect leaks, you will find it in large amounts in cheap butane, or camping butane. It can also potentially be in ?Clean? butane such as Colibri. 

These chemicals are usually Mercaptans or Sulfur Dioxide (Rotten Egg Smell), using cheap butane with high levels of these is harmful. Do not use cheap butane or camping butane. It can also be harmful to use ?Clean? butane, so do so at your own risk. 

It is not known what the effects of residues in butane honey oil are; it?s not even known for sure what if any residues are left over in butane honey oil after the butane is purged. 

Only a Gas Chromatography/Mass Spectrometer can give us the info on what?s exactly is in our BHO. The search is on to find somewhere to get a sample tested. Until then, be aware of the potential health risks and judge for yourself if it?s worth it. 

*Butane Brands* 

Not all butane is created equally; there are 2 different types of butane that make up the most common brands of butane. Isobutane and N-Butane. 

Most cheap brands use Isobutane (2-METHYL PROPANE) and is more toxic and hazardous than N-Butane. For making Honey oil N-Butane is what we want, it extracts better and leaves very little to no residues in the oil. 

Other brands use a mix of the different types, and some, like Colibri, use propane as well as Iso and n-butane 

Boiling Points 
ISOBUTANE: -11.7 C 
N-BUTANE: -0.5 C 

No source of pure N-Butane has been found available in stores, only through Gas Supply Companies. 

 The best brand of butane I have used is Colibri Butane. I highly recommend Colibri, and you should be able to find it at most Fine Cigar and Tobacco Shoppe?s. Below is a list of other brands that are good for making Honey oil with. If you cannot find Colibri try to find one of the butane brands listed. And by all means avoid Ronson, Bernz-o-matic or other butane not listed below, they add smell to their butane and this smell is left behind making the oil taste very bad. 

Other Brands that are good to use: 

COLIBRI, NEWPORT, CORA, CTC, COLTON, DUNHILL, DAVIDOFF, FACKELMAN, WIN, NIBO, SAROME, CALOR GAS MATCH, UNILIGHT, K2, SUPERGAS, VENTTI, VECTOR. 

This is by no way a complete list, and there is no promise this info will always be correct, manufactures can change recipes at anytime. This list is the brands that carry the ?Near Zero? impurity label, which means they are not supposed to have more than 15ppm of impurities, what they are is not know. 

When you purchase the butane make sure you find the largest size of can you can. I use the 300ml/167g (6oz) cans of Colibri. Most places only carry the little 2oz cans, these are not enough. You will need at least 8oz of butane for every 1oz of plant material. 

If you find a brand that?s not listed you can do the mirror test to check to see if it?s ok to use. See Below. 

*Mirror Test *

 Take a mirror or piece of glass and spray some liquid butane into it. A good amount. (You may need some pliers to press the nozzle in) Wait about 5-10mins for the butane to evaporate and check the mirror for a white residue like the kind pictured. The residue also smells bad. Don?t confuse water condensation for residue. Also even Colibri leaves a very slight residue, but it doesn?t smell. Check for Smell. 





 (First mirror picture is of a clean mirror, second of the butane evaporating and last one is the white residue from Bernz-o-matic brand butane) 







*Plant Material* 

 This is the most important factor if you wish to achieve high quality honey oil, Good fresh dried uncrushed bud makes the best honey oil, and you should easily achieve clear oil using uncrushed buds. Grind them up and do a second extraction to get a lower grade ?B? wash, not as tasty or clear like the first batch. 

Butane extracts the smell from the plant material, so if you have some great smelling buds the oil will also take on that smell. If you use bad smelling or tasting plant material, you will get bad tasting oil. 

Using crappy plant material can also result in low yield and oil dark in color. 

Plant Material-|-Recommended amount Butane-|-Estimated Yield 
1oz High quality bud-|-12oz-|-3-6g 
1oz Average bud-|-10oz-|-2-4g 
1oz low grade bud-|-9oz-|-2-3g 
1oz high quality trim leaves-|-12oz-|-3-5g 
1oz trim & leaves-|-10oz-|-2-4g 
1oz fan leaves-|-8oz-|-1-2g 

*Extraction Tube* 

 The extraction tube should be no wider than 1.5?, I find ¾? to be the best. The tube should be made of Stainless steel or Thick glass Only, You can use a copper tube if you cannot find stainless or glass, but only if you clean the tube well before each extraction. Copper tarnishes and the tarnish can potentially be extracted by the butane. 

Avoid ALL Plastics, brass, steel and galvanized steel pipe, these all can contaminate your oil and make you sick. 

I found a cheap stainless steel turkey baster works very well with little modification. It holds about 1/2oz of bud and can yield 2.5-3g of oil from ½ oz of good bud and 4-5oz of butane. 

Some people like to build a contained extraction tube with valves to hold the butane in and let it sit in the plant material for a long time to maximize extraction but this is unnecessary. An open ended tube where the butane can flow through and drip into a collection dish is the easiest to build and makes  much better oil. Allowing the butane to sit in the plant material will make your oil greener. 

 I use a ¾? by 9? Stainless Turkey Baster tube with a screw cap top and a small hole for the butane nozzle. Use a drill to make a 7/64? hole. Leave the bottom Open Ended, a paper basket style coffee filter, and stainless steel screen or metal window screen will be attached here when the tube is filled with the plant material. Use a Hose Clamp to attach your filters. 








 For the collection dish I use a Pyrex casserole or pie dish. Avoid metal collection dish as they can spark, you can use them but I don?t recommend it. 

Honey oil is very sticky and it?s a lot easier to scrape it up from a flat bottom dish with square sides or one with out corners but I have yet to find the perfect dish, Make sure your collection dish can hold at least 500ml of liquid. 



*Extraction* 

Make sure your plant material (Leaves, Trim, Stems, or Buds) are very dry, the dryer the better. If you want clear honey oil with a lower yield, pack the tube without grinding or breaking up the plant material. The butane will extract the high quality oil on the outside of the plant material then unpack the tube, Grind up the plant material into a powder, you don?t want any chunks in it, it should a coarse powder, and re-extract a lower grade oil. 

The better the starting material the better the oil. If you use males or just fan leaves don?t expect awesome oil. You can also use butane extraction to salvage moldy buds. 

Fill the extraction tube full with the powdered plant material; avoid making air pockets in the tube. I like to fill the tube a little then pack it down and repeat until the tube is full. 

Don?t pack it to much and try to make sure the tube is full, if you don?t have enough plant material to fill your tube then try to get a smaller tube. Air pockets let the liquid butane expand to gas and lower the efficiency a little. 

After your tube is filled then you can place your screen on the bottom, Coffee filter works well. The picture shows a steel mesh screen with a coffee filter, which would work the best. 

Find some way to mount the tube on a stand or get an oven mitt as the tube gets very cold, and you won?t be able to hold it with your bare hand for very long. 

Once the tube is filled and prepared its time to get your collection dish, tube, butane and stand or glove and venture outdoors. 

_This is the most dangerous part of the whole process:_ 

 Find a safe, secluded place where you can do the extraction. Hold or mount the tube over the collection dish and place the nozzle of the butane can in the hole you made in the end cap. Release the entire can of butane into the tube, it will take anywhere from 30 secs. To 1 min for the liquid to start to drip from the bottom of the tube into the collection dish. If no liquid comes out of the tube and you have used an entire can then get another can, Packing the plant material to tight can cause a build up of pressure and stop the butane from flowing, if this happens do not let the pressure build to high and take your time.. Eventually the butane will make its way out the bottom. If the butane starts to come out the top hole then slow the release of butane into the tube. 

Continue to empty the can until its just releasing gas (you will hear the difference), remove the spent can. If you are extracting more than 1oz get another can. I usually run 1 6oz can as my tube will hold about 1/2oz of plant material. 

After the last can is emptied I let the tube drip for another few mins, the liquid in the dish should have a golden color to it. It may be hard to see. 

*Evaporation* 

 I like to bring a thermos filled with boiled water to my extraction location along with a frying pan so I can do the evaporations outdoors. It should only take about 15-20mins to evaporate it all. 

Or you can do your evaporations indoors as long as you take every precaution and are aware of the risk of fire if a spark or flame reaches the evaporating butane. And be sure not to let it pool in low areas. 

I have a small fan close by blowing at the dish to avoid butane pools but the electric motor can cause sparks so be sure to keep it blowing at the butane instead of sucking the butane out. 

 Place the collection dish into a larger dish or frying pan filled with hot tap water or water that was boiled and watch the butane start to bubble. The hot water will get cold quickly so change it often until the butane/oil mix starts to thicken up. 

Once the oil gets thicker I let it cool in the freezer in the collection dish. I recommend you do another heating with hot water to make sure all the butane is evaporated. 

Be careful not to overheat or evaporate for too long. The longer you apply heat the darker your oil will get. Once the oil no longer bubbles from boiled water then its usually ready, no more heat is needed. 

The oil might still bubble when a lighter is applied but this is not butane gas bubbles. It?s just the nature of the honey oil. 

If you find your honey oil gets hazy or cloudy it is usually cause by trapped butane, do another purge to get the last of the butane out. 

Once your done evaporating the butane, the honey oil can be smoked. If you let the honey oil sit in the collection dish, keep it covered in a dark place for a week - the honey oil will harden and you can chip it off, it will be solid but melt when heated. 

*Handling, Storing and Smoking:* 

 You can use a razor blade to scrape up the oil from the dish. I like to put my oil into 5g Glass vials for storage; you should be able to find the vials at your local head shop. It?s pretty tricky to fill the vials with oil and it will take a bit of practice to get it right. 

You can leave the oil in the collection dish and scrape it as you smoke it as well, make sure you cover the dish with plastic wrap so no dust and other things get stuck in your oil. 

 Depending on your collection dish shape, it might be difficult to remove all the oil from the corners. I found a little tool that works very well for getting all the oil from the dish. It?s used for mixing paints and it looks like a little flexible knife that can bend to get in all the corners. It?s called a Palette knife and you should be able to find that at an art supply store. 






  









*Smoking* 

 I like to vaporize my oil on hot knives, Take a butter knife and stick it between the electric elements in your stove and crack up the heat, or use a butane or propane torch to heat the knife up. When it?s nice and hot remove the knife and use a pin to drip a drop of oil on the hot knife and suck up the smoke with some sort of tube. I use a pen tube or custom glass hooter. 

Ash bowls are another common way to smoke oil. Take a pipe or bong and fill the bowl with ashes from a cigarette and then drip a drop of oil on top of the pile of ashes. Then light the bowl with a lighter and smoke like you normally would. 

Well that?s it Folks. How to make kick ass honey oil! Good Luck to all and Be Safe.

_Phife_


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## ENDLSCYCLE (Feb 6, 2011)

So...any new methods or any new advice on the subject???


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