# Plants have consciousness



## Nutty sKunK (Mar 17, 2021)

I’d like to share this with everyone and start a conversation.

Our beloved plants have consciousness. In fact every living thing does.

Common knowledge is that animals, insects etc have feelings but not plants, trees, microbes...

This is not the truth - how wonderful! The mystery of life.

Here is a explanation of how consciousness is infinite. And that the consciousness in you reading these words has never and will never die. Only the body or object it possess.

Now.

Say you take a cutting of a plant and clone it. As it’s in the process of producing roots the mother plant is then killed. See how this doesn’t affect the clone? Yet it’s still alive!! Consciousness is the invisible yet perceivable reality connecting us with everything.

I had an experience where I got really pissed off around my plants - usually they make me happy but I knocked off a plant which fell on another and broke a branch. Just shouted ‘FUCK!!’

I cleaned up and taped the branch back but I noticed all the other 6 plants in there were drooping when they were nice and perky just before.

Amazing things these plants!

Treat em with respect and they’ll look after you.

Here’s a video If some folk need more awareness on the subject.


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## mudballs (Mar 17, 2021)

Pretty sure your beliefs on the topic are set in stone so i don't see any room for a so called 'conversation' beyond you fighting with anyone who disagrees


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## weedstoner420 (Mar 17, 2021)

"You're a vegetarian but don't you realize that plants have feelings?"
"Yes I do but they don't scream so loudly."


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## Gemtree (Mar 17, 2021)

weedstoner420 said:


> "You're a vegetarian but don't you realize that plants have feelings?"
> "Yes I do but they don't scream so loudly."


Let the rabbits wear glasses!


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 17, 2021)

mudballs said:


> Pretty sure your beliefs on the topic are set in stone so i don't see any room for a so called 'conversation' beyond you fighting with anyone who disagrees


Well that’s an assumption lol Try me


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## mudballs (Mar 17, 2021)

Define consciousness. While it is clear nonsentient organisms react and interact with their environment, i posit it is strictly proteins, molecular chains, and other motor functions in chain reactions that mimick consciousness. Auxin makes plants turn towards a light source. Plant toxins evolved for protection. These, imo, do not denote consciousness.


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 17, 2021)

mudballs said:


> Define consciousness. While it is clear nonsentient organisms react and interact with their environment, i posit it is strictly proteins, molecular chains, and other motor functions in chain reactions that mimick consciousness. Auxin makes plants turn towards a light source. Plant toxins evolved for protection. These, imo, do not denote consciousness.


Consciousness is simply awareness or being. It is totally abstract in the sense it can’t be measured with the human senses. Yet it is the very thing that gives us the ability to measure - awareness.

Another way to understand consciousness is sleep. We spend a 3rd of our lives asleep. In sleep there are various stages of consciousness. Sub conscious (your dreams) and unconscious (dreamless sleep).

We are the ‘window’ (consciousness itself) into all these other possible states of consciousness.


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## T macc (Mar 17, 2021)

Didn't watch the video, but yes, plants communicate. If you have, say, 3 plants in the ground next to each other, and you kill 1, the other 2 will know that there is danger near. The microbes in the soil help plants to communicate and give or take nutrients from one area of soil to another. I learned this thru studying Electro-Magnetic culture. I can probably dig up old studies. My favorite article/site was called "plantricity", which applied electric frequencies directly to the plants to speed plant production. Kind of off topic, but worth the read IMO.


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 17, 2021)

This is interesting. I've always felt that the plants can "feel" in their own way. I also feel they have the ability to sense emotion. I swear mine know when I'm stressed and react the same way. Lol


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## Severed Tongue (Mar 17, 2021)

TedTalks had a presentation few years back.
Definately wotth the 20 min imho.


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## Budzbuddha (Mar 17, 2021)

Mine apparently like roaming the countryside .... might have to ease up on the kelp.


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## PadawanWarrior (Mar 17, 2021)




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## spliffendz (Mar 17, 2021)

Sometimes I wonder if humans are actually conscious or just wondering around with an illusion of free will


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## Hollatchaboy (Mar 17, 2021)

My money is on illusion. Lol


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## ColoradoHighGrower (Mar 17, 2021)

T macc said:


> Didn't watch the video, but yes, plants communicate. If you have, say, 3 plants in the ground next to each other, and you kill 1, the other 2 will know that there is danger near. The microbes in the soil help plants to communicate and give or take nutrients from one area of soil to another. I learned this thru studying Electro-Magnetic culture. I can probably dig up old studies. My favorite article/site was called "plantricity", which applied electric frequencies directly to the plants to speed plant production. Kind of off topic, but worth the read IMO.


Totally! I've read recently that this is for sure a known phenomenon with Aspen groves and other interconnected species through electrochemicalsignals, with regards to nutrient sharing and biochemical protection mechanisms to help fight fungal infections/attacks. Also know some researchers that did a "plantricity" study and have supposedly applied it to cannabis successfully.. Pretty cool stuff!!


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## PadawanWarrior (Mar 17, 2021)

ColoradoHighGrower said:


> Totally! I've read recently that this is for sure a known phenomenon with Aspen groves and other interconnected species through electrochemicalsignals, with regards to nutrient sharing and biochemical protection mechanisms to help fight fungal infections/attacks. Also know some researchers that did a "plantricity" study and have supposedly applied it to cannabis successfully.. Pretty cool stuff!!


I saw Avatar too, lol.


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## Highlife42 (Mar 17, 2021)

Consciousness; using the word lightly, bc its consciousness in their way. In a study and a movie too where, techs took young plants (2-3wks veg) turned them on their side, froze them in darkness for ~24hrs later etc, reintroduced them into their environment. Despite it being "knocked over" and completely frozen that way, it remembered which way the light was by previously establishing a communication network with geotropism/phototropism /soil..etc. Plants are not plain! lol


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## Highlife42 (Mar 17, 2021)

It remembers what you did last night lol


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## PadawanWarrior (Mar 17, 2021)

Highlife42 said:


> Consciousness; using the word lightly, bc its consciousness in their way. In a study and a movie too where, techs took young plants (2-3wks veg) turned them on their side, froze them in darkness for ~24hrs later etc, reintroduced them into their environment. Despite it being "knocked over" and completely frozen that way, it remembered which way the light was by previously establishing a communication network with geotropism/phototropism /soil..etc. Plants are not plain! lol


If my plants were conscious they wouldn't bud because they would know I was going to kill them, lol.


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## Highlife42 (Mar 17, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> If my plants were conscious they wouldn't bud because they would know I was going to kill them, lol.


Dude, they love you so much they just wanna keep giving back to a good care-taker


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## PadawanWarrior (Mar 17, 2021)

Highlife42 said:


> Dude, they love you so much they just wanna keep giving back to a good care-taker


Could be that they know I have their babies vegging that will keep their genetics alive so they want to keep me happy.


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## Budzbuddha (Mar 17, 2021)

Meh ....

I enjoy my baby calf steak ( sorry cow conscious - moo ) with some sweet chili sauce ( sorry chili conscious - yum ) and a frosty beer beverage ( sorry hops conscious - burp ) ...... I am very conscious of my grub.

So as far as plants .... I tell them grow you bitch , love them then wait to murder them for a sesh. 
Ah good times ... *conscience* is clear .

sorry Jesus


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## Highlife42 (Mar 17, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> Could be that they know I have their babies vegging that will keep their genetics alive so they want to keep me happy.


hahaha thats true. They know who holds the key


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## Soul Dwella (Mar 17, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> View attachment 4856330


Looks like Nitrogen toxicity...maybe K deficent too....


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 18, 2021)

T macc said:


> Didn't watch the video, but yes, plants communicate. If you have, say, 3 plants in the ground next to each other, and you kill 1, the other 2 will know that there is danger near. The microbes in the soil help plants to communicate and give or take nutrients from one area of soil to another. I learned this thru studying Electro-Magnetic culture. I can probably dig up old studies. My favorite article/site was called "plantricity", which applied electric frequencies directly to the plants to speed plant production. Kind of off topic, but worth the read IMO.


Well this plant reacted to a thought!!! Not an action - a thought lol


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 18, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> If my plants were conscious they wouldn't bud because they would know I was going to kill them, lol.


I think that’s self-consciousness


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## Millo (Mar 18, 2021)

Nutty sKunK said:


> I’d like to share this with everyone and start a conversation.
> 
> Our beloved plants have consciousness. In fact every living thing does.
> 
> ...


Should I feel guilty for smoking them?


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 18, 2021)

Millo said:


> Should I feel guilty for smoking them?


If you want. Although u are just smoking yourself. You are Earth and so is it.

No living thing escapes death. That’s what makes grass just as equal as us. Although mankind likes to think otherwise lol


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## insomnia65 (Mar 18, 2021)

mudballs said:


> Define consciousness. While it is clear nonsentient organisms react and interact with their environment, i posit it is strictly proteins, molecular chains, and other motor functions in chain reactions that mimick consciousness. Auxin makes plants turn towards a light source. Plant toxins evolved for protection. These, imo, do not denote consciousness.





Highlife42 said:


> Consciousness; using the word lightly, bc its consciousness in their way. In a study and a movie too where, techs took young plants (2-3wks veg) turned them on their side, froze them in darkness for ~24hrs later etc, reintroduced them into their environment. Despite it being "knocked over" and completely frozen that way, it remembered which way the light was by previously establishing a communication network with geotropism/phototropism /soil..etc. Plants are not plain! lol


Hmmm they "remembered" now there's a massive assumption there,.


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## insomnia65 (Mar 18, 2021)

Soul Dwella said:


> Looks like Nitrogen toxicity...maybe K deficent too....


Let's not mention the shirt ffs.


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## insomnia65 (Mar 18, 2021)

Nutty sKunK said:


> If you want. Although u are just smoking yourself. You are Earth and so is it.
> 
> No living thing escapes death. That’s what makes grass just as equal as us. Although mankind likes to think otherwise lol


These are assumptions and probably your beliefs, there is no objective proof, my belief is a lot like yours but with some main differences, I believe, I could actually say it's true.



> . What Socrates discovered was that none of these people knew anything, but they all thought they did. Socrates concluded he was wiser than them, because he at least knew that he knew nothing.


Socrates was credited as saying " I know I know nothing"

A belief is just that something one chooses to believe, personally I live forever mate, don't know about you.


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## Millo (Mar 18, 2021)

Nutty sKunK said:


> If you want. Although u are just smoking yourself. You are Earth and so is it.
> 
> No living thing escapes death. That’s what makes grass just as equal as us. Although mankind likes to think otherwise lol


But what about speeding up death? If I am consciousness, and so is the plant, is it my illusory mind's choice to kill the plant or is the consciousness essentially deciding to kill itself prematurely?

Just as when you see a spider on your wall and you have the choice of killing it or taking it with a pice of paper and throwing it outside.

Is your mind freely choosing or it is all already written and we don't realise it therefore the illusion of choice is born?

Even more frightening, is it all just entropy and we as humans have the need to categorize it to have order in our lives? 

That would mean that even the illusion itself is just an illusion.


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 18, 2021)

insomnia65 said:


> These are assumptions and probably your beliefs, there is no objective proof, my belief is a lot like yours but with some main differences, I believe, I could actually say it's true.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well it’s not really an assumption that things die is it? In fact not many know the only single guaranteed thing in life is death... but death is life so nice cycle going on there haha

‘I’ the intelligence in this body lives forever but not my personal collective identity.


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 18, 2021)

Millo said:


> But what about speeding up death? If I am consciousness, and so is the plant, is it my illusory mind's choice to kill the plant or is the consciousness essentially deciding to kill itself prematurely?
> 
> Just as when you see a spider on your wall and you have the choice of killing it or taking it with a pice of paper and throwing it outside.
> 
> ...


Well to start you can’t kill consciousness only the host that consciousness possesses.

I like to think of it as we have our own degree of free will. But that free will is ultimately governed by the will of life.

The will of life pulled consciousness from rocks so yeah.. it can do anything given enough time haha


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## hillbill (Mar 18, 2021)

What is consciousness?
We may be unable to sense or understand consciousness of other beings, especially from another kingdom like plants.
Is there a Collective Consciousnesses Communication among other forms of life.
Or the Universe itself?


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## xtsho (Mar 18, 2021)




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## mudballs (Mar 18, 2021)

Nutty sKunK said:


> _Consciousness is simply awareness or being. It is totally abstract in the sense it can’t be measured with the human senses. Yet it is the very thing that gives us the ability to measure - awareness._







So do these inanimate iron filings possess a conscious? They are aware of and reacting to its surroundings...similar to a plants motions


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## insomnia65 (Mar 18, 2021)

Apparently Trump is conscious.


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## hotrodharley (Mar 18, 2021)

Don’t mistake electrochemical signals through a mycelium network for consciousness. In any degree. This is bro hokum for sure but at least not harmful.


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 18, 2021)

mudballs said:


> So do these inanimate iron filings possess a conscious? They are aware of and reacting to its surroundings...similar to a plants motions


Its more manipulated by its surroundings then ‘reacting’ to them.

I don’t know if they possess consciousness - but since consciousness is technically nothing then I don’t see why not lol


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 18, 2021)

hotrodharley said:


> Don’t mistake electrochemical signals through a mycelium network for consciousness. In any degree. This is bro hokum for sure but at least not harmful.


Sure - but if you watched the video did u see how it moved when he ‘thought’ of the idea of hurting the plant.

That is the most interesting part.

Also. Any experiment we do can never be the truth.. why? Because every scientific experiment done today does not included his own limited intelligence as a factor to the result.

For instance you’ve never sensed anything in your life now. It always has been and will be in the past due to our senses.

The same senses we ignorantly use to decipher our place and origins in this existence.

That’s not to say science is wrong for what we our observing we record. It is simply not looking at the bigger picture and the great mystery of life that’s happening now


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## hotrodharley (Mar 18, 2021)

Nutty sKunK said:


> Sure - but if you watched the video did u see how it moved when he ‘thought’ of the idea of hurting the plant.
> 
> That is the most interesting part.
> 
> ...


I’ve been a fan of this gal from British Columbia for years. She’s shown in at least one video and identified as a forester. In all truth she’s the 4th generation of timber people there. Trees are her life. Extremely interesting science. If a birch is cut these chemical signals are emitted. Other trees including spruce emit chemicals to help repair. Pretty damned cool. I’ve been using bennies for years. Got laughed off here more than once for saying fungus are key to a healthy growing environment.


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## MICHI-CAN (Mar 18, 2021)

hotrodharley said:


> I’ve been a fan of this gal from British Columbia for years. She’s shown in at least one video and identified as a forester. In all truth she’s the 4th generation of timber people there. Trees are her life. Extremely interesting science. If a birch is cut these chemical signals are emitted. Other trees including spruce emit chemicals to help repair. Pretty damned cool. I’ve been using bennies for years. Got laughed off here more than once for saying fungus are key to a healthy growing environment.


The concept alone is crushing to most people. As it displays their lack of consciousness. And the true depths of the ignorance and arrogance of humans. We are the primitives in the equation. The biology and chemical processes of the symbiosis in nature is vastly superior and more complex than our parasitic means of survival. 

Go green and treat your plants with the care all living things deserve..

And I will put the yellow mycos I scrape from under white oak bark against store bought sanitized and lacking all the truly essential trace elements and materials actually needed for natural processes. Active bread yeast is honestly more effective. LOL.


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 18, 2021)

hotrodharley said:


> I’ve been a fan of this gal from British Columbia for years. She’s shown in at least one video and identified as a forester. In all truth she’s the 4th generation of timber people there. Trees are her life. Extremely interesting science. If a birch is cut these chemical signals are emitted. Other trees including spruce emit chemicals to help repair. Pretty damned cool. I’ve been using bennies for years. Got laughed off here more than once for saying fungus are key to a healthy growing environment.


Awesome isn’t it!! Like one big ass web. My wife was saying something similar with oak trees. If ones under attack it’ll signal the rest to produce more bitter for lack of a better word taste.

Fungus are the essence of all life!

Did u know fungus can withstand the vacuum of space? I like to think they are all floating around just waiting to pollinate a planet.


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## hillbill (Mar 18, 2021)

Fungi do not pollinate.


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## mudballs (Mar 18, 2021)

hotrodharley said:


> Don’t mistake electrochemical signals through a mycelium network for consciousness. In





Nutty sKunK said:


> Its more manipulated by its surroundings then ‘reacting’ to them.


That is the core of my position regarding plants with consciousness. Plants are only being manipulated by their surroundings.


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## Kushash (Mar 18, 2021)

I enjoyed this book.


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## MICHI-CAN (Mar 18, 2021)

mudballs said:


> That is the core of my position regarding plants with consciousness. Plants are only being manipulated by their surroundings.


If so? Why do we use varying plants, crop rotation, to improve our soils? A two way street. Manipulative as well as manipulated. And it is not electro. It is chemical in plant. Your emitting chemical conversation right now. LOL.


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## mudballs (Mar 18, 2021)

Please keep in mind i am in awe of the magic of the biological web eons of life has created. Symbiosis, freaking straight up magic. It's just i define consciousness differently, and im a sucker for a well articulated debate


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## Gemtree (Mar 18, 2021)

Are Plants Aware?


Plants may experience consciousness, albeit in a different fashion from us.




www.psychologytoday.com


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## MICHI-CAN (Mar 18, 2021)

mudballs said:


> Please keep in mind i am in awe of the magic of the biological web eons of life has created. Symbiosis, freaking straight up magic. It's just i define consciousness differently, and im a sucker for a well articulated debate


If this was for me? No poke. And adding my thoughts. Nature has kept me alive. I got her back regardless as a result. 

And I was referring to pheromones. Not the scent of your comments. LOL. Poorly worded. My bad.


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## hillbill (Mar 18, 2021)

A study has demonstrated the self-awareness of minnows


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## hotrodharley (Mar 18, 2021)

mudballs said:


> That is the core of my position regarding plants with consciousness. Plants are only being manipulated by their surroundings.


One of the discoveries they made regarding trees is how unhealthy trees are when replanting clear cuts with single species of tree. In many of these previously logged areas the topsoil and the mycelium is under everything and torn to pieces because of the equipment used to do logging. Lending some credence to growers who companion plant. In vegetable gardens for years but just now catching on with cannabis growers.


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 18, 2021)

mudballs said:


> That is the core of my position regarding plants with consciousness. Plants are only being manipulated by their surroundings.


They are only being manipulated by their surroundings through our vision. Take away sight - what conclusion would we come to?

Consciousness transcends physical matter so it cannot be observed through the human eye. Rather it is the ‘eye’ itself looking through the eye of a human.

It’s very abstract but can be demonstrated in ones own experience.

When did our own awareness start? Not out memory.

We don’t even remember are own birth! Or sucking on our mommas boobies. Yet we experienced it! There is no memory in consciousness itself.

Another interesting thing is this.

If I was aware at my birth, and therefore aware in my mother’s womb when did I start being aware? My mother’s egg or my dads sperm? Neither. I have always been aware I just forgot.

Same with every other person and living thing on this planet - we have always been consciousness. Of what exactly? Fuck knows xD That’s the exciting part!!


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## MICHI-CAN (Mar 18, 2021)

hillbill said:


> A study has demonstrated the self-awareness of minnows


Home version. Watch a shiner minnow on a tip up hook when a large predator comes within sight range. Funny stuff for a distraction. 

We need to learn to separate intelligence, as defined on ours. From awareness. My belief as to the tripping stone in this informative world of awaking. LOL.


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 18, 2021)

hillbill said:


> Fungi do not pollinate.


Lol. It was a metaphor for fungus flying around on asteroids striking planets which can harbour life.


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## mudballs (Mar 18, 2021)

Nutty sKunK said:


> They are only being manipulated by their surroundings through our vision. Take away sight - what conclusion would we come to?
> 
> Consciousness transcends physical matter so it cannot be observed through the human eye. Rather it is the ‘eye’ itself looking through the eye of a human.
> 
> ...


Freud says,

The id is the only component of personality that is present from birth.
This aspect of personality is entirely unconscious and includes instinctive and primitive behaviors
Peer reviewed source

Herein lies my definition of consciousness. The baby is aware it needs momma titty. and is aware it can squeeze its hands to hold on while its muscles fire in the right sequence to suckle milk. It's not conscious of it. The plant is aware it needs light, so tretches nodal spacing to reach canopy of competitors. It is not conscious of this act. 
The baby feels pain when pinched, the plant wilts when damaged. Still not conscious, just primitive unconscious chained behavior.
_In Sigmund Freud's psychoanalytic theory of personality, the unconscious mind is defined as a reservoir of feelings, thoughts, urges, and memories that outside of conscious awareness._
Source
The plant has urges, memories, and very well may have thoughts and feelings, arguably yes. But it is not conscious of them. The awareness you speak of begins in the ego. 
I acknowledge the magical unknowable depth of reality you mentioned, it's just that my side of this thread is plants have an unconscious relationship with the universe. Heck i guess id go so far as saying every living organism has a soul even...just not conscious of it.


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## MICHI-CAN (Mar 18, 2021)

mudballs said:


> Freud says,
> 
> The id is the only component of personality that is present from birth.
> This aspect of personality is entirely unconscious and includes instinctive and primitive behaviors
> ...


And the rabbit hole again appears. Was Freud able to recall his actions at this stage in life or ask a newborn's opinion. Totally unprovable hypothesis at best. Again the arrogance of man as we define something we may never perceive on our pathetic senses. LOL. 

Crazy frustrating topic. May we remain civil. LOL. 

Peace.


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## hillbill (Mar 18, 2021)

Again. We, as humans may not be able to recognize, understand or even be aware of the possible consciousness of non human based consciousness.


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## hillbill (Mar 18, 2021)

If it, in fact, exists.


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## MICHI-CAN (Mar 18, 2021)

hillbill said:


> If it, in fact, exists.


I believe quantum entanglement is but a mere speck of a glimpse into our lack of understanding and true infinitesimal hindrances on understanding.

Ego is still our downfall. And we claim intelligence still. LOL.


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## hillbill (Mar 18, 2021)

Humanity is and always has been at the pinnacle of human understanding and technology and seemingly unable to comprehend that we are unable to comprehend what we have not yet imagined.


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## puffdatchronic (Mar 18, 2021)

Yes plants must be conscious as only vegetables would vote for biden


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## MICHI-CAN (Mar 18, 2021)

puffdatchronic said:


> Yes plants must be conscious as only vegetables would vote for biden


Wrong thread. 

Best wishes.


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## PadawanWarrior (Mar 18, 2021)




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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 18, 2021)

mudballs said:


> Freud says,
> 
> The id is the only component of personality that is present from birth.
> This aspect of personality is entirely unconscious and includes instinctive and primitive behaviors
> ...


You are describing self-consciousness, well a form of it. A dog doesn’t know it’s hungry. It just reacts to a feeling. So do most things. Even you as u were born. You weren’t aware of yourself you were just aware, conscious.

To put it another way consciousness is impersonal.

Soon as it becomes personal we hold a position. When we hold a position it always has the potential to be under threat from another outside force.

That’s why everything went ‘wrong/imbalanced when a monkey became self-conscious and started for the first time in earths history to personally possess objects within and outside of itself.

A cow doesn’t personally protect its calf. It’s an instinctual reaction. Like you seeing a baby crying in a river you’d feel a reaction before your mind thinks about it. There is no self in that desire to help. The self happens a split second after when you think, should I go help or how can I help etc etc


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 18, 2021)

hillbill said:


> Again. We, as humans may not be able to recognize, understand or even be aware of the possible consciousness of non human based consciousness.


Heres the secret. We can. It’s now! This very moment... think of it it goes. Try to quantify it no chance. Yet it can be experienced! And that is in his eternal moment - now


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## tstick (Mar 19, 2021)

I think it has to do with the fact that humans are emotionally-linked to all the living things they take responsibility for. You start a plant from a seed and you have to dedicate your time to it everyday. That's how we become linked to our plants. When the time comes to chop them, many people (especially home growers) feel a sadness that the living thing they interacted with for so long will now be ended by the same hand that fed and watered them and kept them alive. Seems kinda Hansel and Gretel-ish where we are the witch fattening up the kids! I digress...

After I watched a few videos of hammer orchids, I stopped wondering whether or not different types of life forms could interact so specifically. They must be able to _understand_ the world outside of themselves in some kind of way for that to even exist. How could a plant make itself look and smell like a female wasp and know when to bloom so that the male wasps are around? Evolution? Yes...but a design that's so specific, that if one of the two organisms went extinct, then so would the other! What can we all extrapolate from THAT?


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 19, 2021)

tstick said:


> I think it has to do with the fact that humans are emotionally-linked to all the living things they take responsibility for. You start a plant from a seed and you have to dedicate your time to it everyday. That's how we become linked to our plants. When the time comes to chop them, many people (especially home growers) feel a sadness that the living thing they interacted with for so long will now be ended by the same hand that fed and watered them and kept them alive. Seems kinda Hansel and Gretel-ish where we are the witch fattening up the kids! I digress...
> 
> After I watched a few videos of hammer orchids, I stopped wondering whether or not different types of life forms could interact so specifically. They must be able to _understand_ the world outside of themselves in some kind of way for that to even exist. How could a plant make itself look and smell like a female wasp and know when to bloom so that the male wasps are around? Evolution? Yes...but a design that's so specific, that if one of the two organisms went extinct, then so would the other! What can we all extrapolate from THAT?


We do get emotionally attached to things that’s human natures.

I’ve become aware of the truth that nothing dies for everything is.

Amazingly if u really think about it death as an end is just an assumption. In fact it’s just unknown and as humans are reliant on past that terrifies us - we love to know! Or think we know...

Well that’s a great subject!

The problem lies within the misunderstanding of the evolutionary system. Common knowledge is Darwin’s theory. That things randomly happened to look the way they do and survived. What nonsense xD

The stick insect did not look like a stick insect from countless errors, that would take an incredible amount of time to randomly appear. Never mind the vast complexity of life itself. Also if things did randomly happen then where are these fossilised retards? The stages in what these animals had to
Go through? 

Amazingly the Earth has a psychic brain. What do we quantify as a brain? A physical gloopy mass or the result of intelligence? 

I would say intelligence defines a brain. And intelligence is like a massive unlimited scale.

Earth has its own intelligence and its in you reading these words. That same intelligence went from the first cell division until this very moment. The whole purpose is for it to create a being which is able of harbouring it’s psychic brain. Essentially it’s replicated itself in matter and entered it.

There is a phenomenal book that everyone should read. It’s pretty much explains what im trying to say but much better and in more detail.

A small part goes on about how thin layer of membrane in behind the eye dissolved and this triggered sunlight to enter the pineal gland which is at the centre of the brain.

The pineal gland is in most animals even a crocodile - yet it’s not active. Only humans are. Why?

Because we are self-conscious. We are aware of being aware. How funny? Haha.

Life is a miracle - a true working of a genius in disguise...


The origins of man and the universe by Barry Long is the book.


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## hillbill (Mar 19, 2021)

Not everything stated as facts are, in fact, factually accurate or even knowable.
Such certainty baffles me.


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 19, 2021)

hillbill said:


> Not everything stated as facts are, in fact, factually accurate or even knowable.
> Such certainty baffles me.


If there is no truth (facts) then we are doomed but luckily that’s not the case lol

How can I be so sure? Because I am. I’m here now experiencing a human. It’s undeniable. That is a fact.

How is that hard to understand? Just pause and stop. Don’t think - thinking is just past not present. This very moment which is so overlooked yet is the very moment anything can happen in.


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## mudballs (Mar 20, 2021)

Nutty sKunK said:


> How is that hard to understand? Just pause and stop. Don’t think - thinking is just past not present.


Now you're asking a sentient entity to suspend self awareness, which would be unconscious life, and attributing conscious self awareness to non sentient entities, plants.


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## insomnia65 (Mar 20, 2021)

People been smoking too much on this thread.


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 20, 2021)

mudballs said:


> Now you're asking a sentient entity to suspend self awareness, which would be unconscious life, and attributing conscious self awareness to non sentient entities, plants.


Awareness of self is something we establish over time after birth.

You’re not born aware of yourself are you?

When you’re not self conscious you’re just conscious. Like a baby. Here in the present moment. Which is most certainly not unconscious.

We all started of as babies then slowly the sense of self develops. Likes, dislikes, opinions and all other self aware traits build over time. But all those traits are supported by consciousness itself. You don’t need to be self awareness to feel hungry, to feel the warmth of fire the sea and on your toes. You just have to be conscious! If you were to be unconscious you’d just be a heap on the floor lol 

Saying a plant is not conscious is an assumption. You might say that saying it does have consciousness is also an assumption. So how do we know the truth?

Well how did we get from plants to insects? Where is that stepping stone in nature huh? Where did everything get its awareness from?


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## mudballs (Mar 20, 2021)

Nutty sKunK said:


> Saying a plant is not conscious is an assumption. You might say that saying it does have consciousness is also an assumption. So how do we know the truth?


Well at least we're on equal footing finally...took me a few posts but we got there


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 20, 2021)

mudballs said:


> Well at least we're on equal footing finally...took me a few posts but we got there


You missed the most important part. How did animals gain consciousness by evolving from plants? Truth is life even a single cell has consciousness.


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## mudballs (Mar 20, 2021)

Nutty sKunK said:


> You missed the most important part. How did animals gain consciousness by evolving from plants? Truth is life even a single cell has consciousness.


This is your "assumption" and that's fine. We still disagree on the definition of consciousness. I hold to the Freudian Interpretation, whereas your position holds to Taoism, Hinduism, with a smidge of pagan Wiccan animism...which i don't dismiss out of hand.im very spiritual.

Many i see here saying 'we cant know, its beyond human understanding' ...well then are we all just talking out of our asses? Speculation...conjecture...
"i reject your reality and substitute my own"
~Adam Savage of Mythbusters
I feel quite certain i did not miss what was the most important part and that is to not let others convince me that i am seeing the world incorrectly.


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 20, 2021)

mudballs said:


> This is your "assumption" and that's fine. We still disagree on the definition of consciousness. I hold to the Freudian Interpretation, whereas your position holds to Taoism, Hinduism, with a smidge of pagan Wiccan animism...which i don't dismiss out of hand.im very spiritual.
> 
> Many i see here saying 'we cant know, its beyond human understanding' ...well then are we all just talking out of our asses? Speculation...conjecture...
> "i reject your reality and substitute my own"
> ...


I’m not overly familiar with them so can’t say for sure. I know just in my own experience that consciousness transcends matter. I’ve left my physical body many a times through mediation. That is the consciousness that I am, forever.

Humans can know the truth of course, it’s just not an interesting topic for most, doesn’t sell well lol

I don’t want to convince you - I just want to help
You see what I’m saying and see if it rings true. How consciousness entered matter? It’s a mystery. We don’t need to know how. We only need to know that it’s there.


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## hillbill (Mar 20, 2021)

Sounds a little fundamentalist to me. Not Baptist Fundamentalism but the acceptance of unprovable theories and beliefs, none the less.


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## insomnia65 (Mar 20, 2021)

Nutty sKunK said:


> Awareness of self is something we establish over time after birth.
> 
> You’re not born aware of yourself are you?
> 
> ...


Dude I could talk this shit all day, I don't want to read it ffs.


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 20, 2021)

hillbill said:


> Sounds a little fundamentalist to me. Not Baptist Fundamentalism but the acceptance of unprovable theories and beliefs, none the less.


Yeah consciousnesses didn’t enter matter it’s a belief of mine xD

You either get it or you don’t. No harm in that.

You might be interested in DMT - the spirit molecule. Touches on how the soul enters matter using DMT.

Our two biggest doses of DMT are a few weeks after conception (when the soul enters the body) and right at the moment we die.

Life essentially is one big trip.

@insomnia65 

Me too. I hate typing this shite out on a phone. Takes me several attempts to write what I want to say lol


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## insomnia65 (Mar 21, 2021)

Was thinking of maybe having some DMT,. I tripped when I was a teenager im a lot older now and wary.


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 21, 2021)

insomnia65 said:


> Was thinking of maybe having some DMT,. I tripped when I was a teenager im a lot older now and wary.


Its actually released in our sleep in smaller doses we dream. As dreams are essential a trip.

Id love to try some but got no contacts. We did have some but didn’t work - think we didn’t burn it hot enough or too hot I dunno lol

All I know is that environment is critical to a good or bad trip, find a safe spot in nature and that’s where the best trips happen ime


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## Gaussamer (Mar 22, 2021)

Animate cell collections do not constitute consciousness. Consciousness requires awareness of self, not simply the trait of being reactive to the environment.


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## green_machine_two9er (Mar 22, 2021)

PadawanWarrior said:


> Could be that they know I have their babies vegging that will keep their genetics alive so they want to keep me happy.


More like the collective consciousness of the cannabis working to keep us cultivating it. It wants to grow and since it’s an annual plant it knows it’s doomed anyway. So why not develop cannabinoids that mammals have receptors for.


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## green_machine_two9er (Mar 22, 2021)




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## green_machine_two9er (Mar 22, 2021)

And some jammin 





I so want to try this with cannabis. This guy lives in my neighborhood... who knows.


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 22, 2021)

Gaussamer said:


> Animate cell collections do not constitute consciousness. Consciousness requires awareness of self, not simply the trait of being reactive to the environment.


No it does not. Consciousness does not need awareness of self to be present, quite the opposite, unless you classify animals as having no consciousness.

Self-Consciousness is a human trait. It’s simply awareness recognising itself - like a mirror.


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## Gaussamer (Mar 22, 2021)

Animals have consciousness, of which there are certainly degrees, but canines for instance are very _self_-aware due to their highly social nature. Plants are not self-aware, they process no information and act strictly reactively to their environment. Consciousness is how far you can "see down the road" inside of yourself and use that to comprehend your place within reality to effect changes or process further information. A gigantic side effect of this is the unending quest for certainty and affirmation of your place within your reality, it's why we need to be seen and heard by other humans who also have a linear perspective of consciousness. It ratifies our own understanding of ourselves. Plants, crystals, amoeba are incapable of anything other than being a product of their environment. Their entire existence is condition IF/THEN/ELSE and there is no indication of plants ever indicating a condition WHAT IF/WHAT THEN/WHAT ELSE. That is consciousness, and it does inseparably require an attentional factor of the self to degrees.


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 22, 2021)

Gaussamer said:


> Animals have consciousness, of which there are certainly degrees, but canines for instance are very _self_-aware due to their highly social nature. Plants are not self-aware, they process no information and act strictly reactively to their environment. Consciousness is how far you can "see down the road" inside of yourself and use that to comprehend your place within reality to effect changes or process further information. A gigantic side effect of this is the unending quest for certainty and affirmation of your place within your reality, it's why we need to be seen and heard by other humans who also have a linear perspective of consciousness. It ratifies our own understanding of ourselves. Plants, crystals, amoeba are incapable of anything other than being a product of their environment. Their entire existence is condition IF/THEN/ELSE and there is no indication of plants ever indicating a condition WHAT IF/WHAT THEN/WHAT ELSE. That is consciousness, and it does inseparably require an attentional factor of the self to degrees.


Canines only appear to be self aware becomes of humans making them feel self aware. Wolfs are not self aware - they react.

Consciousness is not how far you can see down the road, that’s instinct.

Consciousness is the invisible window reading these words supporting all other forms of life.

A shrimp has consciousness and instinct. Both are implicit in one another. Out of instinct our sense of self has been established.


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## Gaussamer (Mar 22, 2021)

So how long have you been living with schizophrenia?


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## insomnia65 (Mar 22, 2021)

Nutty sKunK said:


> Its actually released in our sleep in smaller doses we dream. As dreams are essential a trip.
> 
> Id love to try some but got no contacts. We did have some but didn’t work - think we didn’t burn it hot enough or too hot I dunno lol
> 
> All I know is that environment is critical to a good or bad trip, find a safe spot in nature and that’s where the best trips happen ime


Burn


Nutty sKunK said:


> Canines only appear to be self aware becomes of humans making them feel self aware. Wolfs are not self aware - they react.
> 
> Consciousness is not how far you can see down the road, that’s instinct.
> 
> ...


In your opinion.


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 23, 2021)

Gaussamer said:


> So how long have you been living with schizophrenia?


Well what a constructive way to keep the conversation going.

Nobody here has responded to the fact of how consciousness entered matter.

And you don’t even respond intelligently when I demonstrate how consciousness doesn’t need self.

You call me schizophrenic? That’s rich. 99.99% of humanity is insane. How?

Try to stop thinking. You can’t. Maybe a few seconds but pop, another thought comes in. Can’t stop it can you? So are you really in control of your thoughts or are they in control of you?

An intelligent person would recognise this


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## green_machine_two9er (Mar 23, 2021)

Nutty sKunK said:


> Well what a constructive way to keep the conversation going.
> 
> Nobody here has responded to the fact of how consciousness entered matter.
> 
> ...


Hey I’m with ya here. Being that matter seems to be influenced or even manifested by consciousness. It makes since to me that all the stuff needs the “spirit” or consciousness or awareness to be manifest. And that obviously has been happening long before humanity snd will continue long after.

Quantum consciousness. To me that is the base of all awareness. Deeper than any thinker, or self. That’s all Ego play. That’s what humans have special. Not consciousness but ego. 

Ego is responsible for the fear response to this very question. “ no no no. I’m special. My thoughts are amazing and everything else in creation is under me!!” 

plants And animals obviously don’t have that..
But plants and animals and dinosaurs all interact with the fluid like mater we call the real and tangible and by experiencing, or being conscious of matter it’s created at light speed because of the awareness of it. Errr wtf is really going on here.
Sure this idea could be scizo. But science has only brought us deeper down the rabbit hole, science has proven this, not only theoretically. Matter comes in and out of existence. We know awareness seems to play a role in this. 

so at the end of the day, dogs do it. Cats do it. Corona virus does it. Soon I wonder if computers will do it. ......


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## hillbill (Mar 23, 2021)

green_machine_two9er said:


> Hey I’m with ya here. Being that matter seems to be influenced or even manifested by consciousness. It makes since to me that all the stuff needs the “spirit” or consciousness or awareness to be manifest. And that obviously has been happening long before humanity snd will continue long after.
> 
> Quantum consciousness. To me that is the base of all awareness. Deeper than any thinker, or self. That’s all Ego play. That’s what humans have special. Not consciousness but ego.
> 
> ...


The last sentence is very frightening. “Just Pull The Plug” May not work. Soon.


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## hillbill (Mar 23, 2021)

Old episode of TV “Star-Trek” 1967 dealt with that.


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## Nutty sKunK (Mar 23, 2021)

green_machine_two9er said:


> Hey I’m with ya here. Being that matter seems to be influenced or even manifested by consciousness. It makes since to me that all the stuff needs the “spirit” or consciousness or awareness to be manifest. And that obviously has been happening long before humanity snd will continue long after.
> 
> Quantum consciousness. To me that is the base of all awareness. Deeper than any thinker, or self. That’s all Ego play. That’s what humans have special. Not consciousness but ego.
> 
> ...


Yeah AI is the next ‘big deal’. I think it’s crucial it sees humans not as a threat but as a potential for cooperation.

What was intriguing was a situation where they left
Google’s deepmind AI completely bare of any information. It was simply 4 blocks that’s it. What did the cheeky bugger end up doing with no input? It started replicating itself... like an earthly intelligence. It’s almost like with intelligence comes the inherent need to replicate itself.


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## Northwood (Mar 23, 2021)

Neuroscientists take a different view of animal consciousness than general western culture because the scientific method relies on more empirical evidence rather than tradition. Hence the Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness. During my entire pre-adult life I was taught that only humans are blessed with consciousness and sentience because we were created in HIS likeness and have souls, and animals were made only for our benefit to exploit and serve our needs and do not have "souls". I think that prejudice still exists in our culture, and it's a difficult one to break out of. Heck at one time western culture thought only white people of european ancestry had "real consciousness", so maybe we've made a bit of progress over the last couple centuries or so. But these old Biblical beliefs certainly do still influence many of us and color our perception.


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## Pheno44 (Mar 25, 2021)

Plants can communicate to each other through their roots. Trees warn other trees not to grow into toxic areas even.


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## Skyhound (Apr 13, 2021)

Guys dont stop here , to much interesting, that release of DMT a few weeks after being born , and when we die cant be a coincidence


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## Nutty sKunK (Apr 13, 2021)

Skyhound said:


> Guys dont stop here , to much interesting, that release of DMT a few weeks after being born , and when we die cant be a coincidence


You’ll find this interesting. Agin science being science. Essentially the process is there for it to make it just like ourselves yet they don’t know how or where it’s made. Doesn’t mean it’s the not link between man and plant does if? A tree worked before we understood it...

*In your film, you talk quite a bit about how DMT is found across the planet in plants and in animals. Dr. Rick Strassman also hypothesizes that it may be found in the pineal gland. I'm curious about your thoughts on that.*
I always like to mention this for Dr. Strassman, but it is just a hypothesis at this point -- we don't know that DMT is made in the pineal gland, however the precursors are there. And even if it isn't made in the pineal, I don't think it takes away anything because it is in our body, we know it's in our body and it's doing something in our body. It's not just some extraneous molecule floating around in there because it passes the blood brain barrier, so whether or not it's made right there in the brain or actually transferred into the brain, it still feels like it has some sort of a reality lever. If it's adjusted up, you see a very super psychedelic world, if it's drawn back you're in a more black and white world, if you will. But having it all over nature really was the key and the driving force for me when I was making the film. Potentially every living organism in the world has DMT in it. Potentially. Every organism has tryptophan, which is where it comes from. And if that's the case, this New Age idea of being fully connected holds true, that we really are connected by this one simple molecule. And it could be this common molecular language that we really could communicate or create with.


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## Nutty sKunK (Apr 13, 2021)

Here’s the link to the rest if you wanna read it.





__





Redirect Notice






www.google.co.uk


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## insomnia65 (Apr 13, 2021)

Do people really talk out of their donkeys.


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## twentyeight.threefive (Apr 15, 2021)

Midichlorians.


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## xtsho (Apr 16, 2021)

For some reason this thread makes me think of this song.


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## Runa (Apr 16, 2021)

I don't know why thought that plants are living beings able to communicate and feel is such a controversial topic. I thought this was a common knowledge. The issue is that modern human is so out of touch with nature and is unable to understand the world he/she lives in. My mom and grandma told me that if I wish to have happy thriving plants in my home and yard that I have to genuinely care for them... Yeah even talk to them, develop feelings for them and similar shit  My plants know and feel that I love them and in return they blossom and make my home and yard beautiful... LOL, I know I sound as a weirdo but yeah, plants have feelings too.


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## ISK (Apr 20, 2021)

just recently, I seen a TV commercial for household potting soil that had all the plants talking to each other....rather cute and amusing 

then at the very end the announcer says "if your plants are talking please consult with your doctor"


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