# To Decarb or Not?



## Meeeeech (Apr 10, 2013)

Hey all, I realize this is probably a common question, but I thought I'd be specific for what I'm doing. What I want to do is make potent canna-dipping oil for bread. I usually make brownies, and they kick my ass. Last time, though, I tried stopping after extracting the THC into oil and then adding some herbs and dipping my bread in it. It was okay, but not nearly as potent as when I make brownies. Most people have said that I should have decarbed the weed if I wasn't going to bake the oil into brownies.

Could someone explain why this is the case? Or if it is actually necessary? I never decarb when making brownies and they're fine. Also, I cook my oil at roughly 210-230 degrees, for what it's worth. Thanks!

p.s. - if you think decarbing is a necessity, could you link to a guide or explain how? Double thanks!


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## technical dan (Apr 10, 2013)

decarbing breaks a carboxyl group off of THCAcid turning it into the psychoactive form THC. THCA does not get you high THC does just google cannabis decarb if you want more detail/ more accurate explanations. And yes you do decarb when you make brownies you just aren't thinking about it at the time. The THCA decarbs when you are cooking your brownies or when you infuse your oil if you hold it in that temp range for a while otherwise the next easiest way will be to decarb you weed in the oven at ~220 for 20 or so min and then infuse your oil. This will get the THCA to THC before it touches the oil. With decarb and infusions remember higher temps = faster reactions but keep it in range. 

Also make sure the potency of the oil is the same and that you are ingesting the same dose with the bread as the brownies.


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## Meeeeech (Apr 10, 2013)

Thanks for the info, I made sure the amount of oil was the same for the first few doses and it wasn't really doing much, which is what led to me wondering about the decarb question. 

So the act of baking the brownies (with canna-oil that's already been infused with THC) bumps up the potency? And I should decarb before extracting into the oil for maximum potency? I'm thinking about trying again this weekend. 

Note: It's not like the oil didn't work, it just took more than it should have. I made 10oz of this oil for dipping using an ounce of weed and found it took about 1.5oz of the oil to get the same effect as 3ish brownies, which works out to about 3x as much oil for the same effect. (3/48 brownies and 1.5/10 oz respectively.)


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## technical dan (Apr 10, 2013)

yes it changes the THC from the form of THCAcid which does not get you high to THC delta 9 which does. Either way is fine but you will need to heat the oil weed mix to some degree no matter what to (infuse it) speed up the binding of THC to fats/ lipids (which is different than decarb). 

So yeah based on that it sounds like the continuation of decarb during baking is what made the brownies more effective. But I have also noticed that certain types of edibles just do not work well for me regardless of dose. Gummies have never done shit for me, neither did the tea n coffee pouches dispensaries sell, but cannabutter pancakes work reliably for me.


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## 2Kushed (Apr 11, 2013)

Yes, it needs to be decarbed. Decarboxylation is time and temp. If you heat your oil to 250F, you can watch the CO2 bubbles being released. When the bubbles stop the THC starts to degrade, see graph curve #4 (252F, 27 min.) Your material is partially decarbed, so it will not take 27 min. (Graph courtesy Jump 117 Moscow)


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## Sparty82 (Apr 17, 2013)

Meeeeech said:


> Hey all, I realize this is probably a common question, but I thought I'd be specific for what I'm doing. What I want to do is make potent canna-dipping oil for bread. I usually make brownies, and they kick my ass. Last time, though, I tried stopping after extracting the THC into oil and then adding some herbs and dipping my bread in it. It was okay, but not nearly as potent as when I make brownies. Most people have said that I should have decarbed the weed if I wasn't going to bake the oil into brownies.
> 
> Could someone explain why this is the case? Or if it is actually necessary? I never decarb when making brownies and they're fine. Also, I cook my oil at roughly 210-230 degrees, for what it's worth. Thanks!
> 
> p.s. - if you think decarbing is a necessity, could you link to a guide or explain how? Double thanks!


I too vote for decarbing. After reading this article, it's just to easy to do it and be sure. I don't see a down side.

I pasted in a great article on the subject from Cannalytics

http://www.micannalytics.com/index.php


*What is decarboxylation?*

In living cannabis plants, the cannabinoids are synthesized in an acidic form. This form has little effect on humans and must be heated to lose a carbon dioxide molecule to become active.





*What are the optimal conditions for decarboxylation?*

Maximum conversion of THCA into THC has been reported to occur by heating for 15 minutes, at 300 degrees Fahrenheit, which results in a 70% conversion rate. Insufficient heating will result in the majority of the cannabinoids to remain in their acidic form, while excessive heating will result in degradation of THC to CBN or vaporization of the compounds. Cannalytics recommends heating plant material in the oven prior to mixing it with any other ingredients.





*Batching and Dosages*

In order for your test results to have maximum relevance, Cannalytics recommends that edibles be made in as large of batches as possible and that each dosage be of the same weight. This will reduce variability in the potency reported for each product allowing patients to better predict how a product will make them feel.
The preferred method for reporting the cannabinoid concentration of edibles is by total milligrams of each cannabinoid present. This is obtained by multiplying the mass of each edible by its concentration (% w/w). Patients may be surprised to see that the average cannabinoid content of edibles is between 30-90 mg, thinking that this is too little an amount to have an effect. Here's an example to demonstrate that this is an appropriate amount. Let's assume that an average joint as a mass of 1000 mg (1g) with a THC concentration of 15%, meaning there are 150 mg of THC in this joint. Now consider the fact that 70% of THC is destroyed by combustion, meaning that only 45 mg of THC would remain to reach the patient's lungs. From this example it is easy to see that edibles within the 30-90 mg range would indeed be at a therapeutic concentration.
*The Advantage of HPLC*

Because our high-pressure liquid chromatography method does not involve heating the samples for quantification, we are uniquely positioned to distinguish between products that have been properly decarboxylated prior to analysis from those that have not. The chromatograms below are examples of edibles that we have received to date. You can see the extent of decarboxylation by comparing the relative areas of the THC and THCA peaks.





*References*

Dussy et. al. (2005). Isolation of d9-THCA-A from hemp and analytical aspects concerning the determination of d9-THC in cannabis products. Forensic Science International; 149: 3-10.


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## Meeeeech (Apr 21, 2013)

Awesome info, thanks a bunch! I'm going to try decarbing at 300 for 15min like it says, then extracting into oil like normal and see if it works better (when I get some green in the near future). 

Just to be super clear, can you decarb cannaoil? I'm not going to do that, but that would explain the difference in potency between brownies and plain oil. That's kind of the biggest question I've had and while all this info is great and I'm definitely going to do it this way, I'm still curious about the discrepancy between the two.


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## technical dan (Apr 21, 2013)

yes you can decarb once/when the THC(A) is in the oil. Thats how it works when you make butter (unless you pre dry your material in the oven), the THCA goes to THC while it simmers in the pot and the THCs also bind to the lipids during the heating. Heat speeds up the decarb and the bonding.


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## Meeeeech (Apr 22, 2013)

Okay, I think that's it then. Mystery solved! Thanks everyone for the help, looking forward to trying this now.


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## samisomo (Apr 22, 2013)

Wait a sec, You are saying that i need to heat up the butter again in the oven after i made it up already into cannbutter for it to be stronger?
P.S: I made cannabutter in this recipe: http://buymarijuanaseeds.com/community/threads/mr-ryders-ganja-butter-the-stuff-of-legends.136060/


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## Meeeeech (Apr 22, 2013)

I think they're saying that baking with already made cannabutter/oil boosts potency (b/c it's decarbing in the oven), but the best way is to decarb before making the butter.


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## samisomo (Apr 22, 2013)

Decarb before making the butter? Now im confused ...


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## Meeeeech (Apr 23, 2013)

Generally I understand decarbing to be when you put the actual weed into the oven and heat it up for 15min or so (the specifics are around here on the forums) to turn THCA (doesn't get you high) to THC (gets you high). Then you make your oil/butter like normal. I was wondering about the reverse order where you bake brownies and therefore do the decarbing after making the butter/oil, which is why I started the thread. From what I understand, decarbing first results in more efficiency (and therefore more potency). Hope that helps, and that I'm not horribly wrong.


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## technical dan (Apr 24, 2013)

either before or after introducing it to the food both/either will accomplish the decarb. But if the weed is decarbed prior to cooking the THC still needs to be bound to the fats in the food. The mj and food mix (weed and butter ect.) needs to be heated together so the THC will bind to the fats in the food.


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## LadyZandra (Apr 24, 2013)

Just made a batch of Coconut oil using Ice Hash instead of weed--
After infusing it, I raised the temps to 175f for 15 minutes--- was that the right way to go???


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## LadyZandra (Apr 24, 2013)

Hey "Sparty" You a REAL Spartan from E.L???
GO MSU!!!!!


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## technical dan (Apr 24, 2013)

I would say 200 for 20 min (with occasional stirring) but yes thats the idea and that will have kick started the process. Why did you use ice water hash for edibles? thats my favorite stuff to smoke n dab.


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## Erysichthon (Apr 24, 2013)

I have been researching this for a while now. this most recent batch of oil, finished 5 min ago i took great attention with. i did decarb it before hand, up to about 235(and totally happy with that now) heres why.

im using the double boiler technique. only i use a mason jar for the second boiler, and in my cook i couldnt get my oil over 210ish. can anyone guess why? 

water boils at 212. anything past that just goes to steam. unless your cooking straight oil its going to be hard to attain the 228ish you need for decarb. 

so im glad i did my decarb. i advise you to decarb as well, unless your heating straight oil. which btw is my next step. after i eat/test this batch of brownies. i will update of course after next batch.

Ery


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## fatboyOGOF (Apr 25, 2013)

i've been making cookies or firecrackers with a measured dose of 1.5 grams. with a couple genetics, it gets me right where i like to be, with a couple of others it's just below that place. 

before i dive deeper into this subject (something i'm not capable of at the moment), are you guys saying that i should decarb my pot first (as in baking it at 200 or 300 degrees for 15 minutes or so), then mix it into the peanut butter/oil mix for the firecrackers? now i just lay down some peanut butter, lay pot over that, pour on some olive oil, wrap them up and bake them at 310ish. 

i know- READ! but seriously, i ate the firecrackers about 2 hours ago, so you know...  


i ate too much pot once and didn't eat pot again for over 2o years so i'm concerned about the dosages from something like canna butter. i like to know exactly how much i'm getting. once over the top was more than enough for me and i ate a lot of acid back in the day. this was something different. bad different.


by the way, i got the impression that eating pot was more of a body stone but the head high from what i've been eating is really nice, just what i would want if i were smoking a joint, and i don't really notice a body stone. my mostly sativa dom genetics maybe?


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## technical dan (Apr 27, 2013)

Erysichthon said:


> water boils at 212. anything past that just goes to steam. unless your cooking straight oil its going to be hard to attain the 228ish you need for decarb.


nothing wrong with your methods but decarb does happen at 228 and 200 and 160 and room temp it just happens at a slower rate as the temp decreases. The curves show the most efficient way (fastest time wise) with the higher temps but decarb happens while the weed sits around. It is happening (slowly) in your jars when you bud cures and when it sits in there waiting to be smoked. 

Yes fatboyOGOF IM(limited)E with firecrackers decarbing before does help significantly (esp. with their short cook time)

Genetics will affect the high but I always feel mostly/ almost all body from weed edibles. If you make hash ones you can get more of a head high like some butter and hash oil gives more of a head high which I prefer. I'm actually going to go make some stony time pancakes with this right now hehehe


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## Meeeeech (Apr 30, 2013)

Update: I decarbed my latest batch before extracting into oil. Used a pizza pan that I covered in tin-foil and spread the weed (1oz.) over it, then put another sheet of tinfoil over it and crimped down both sheets under the pan. Decarbed for about 25min on 225 degrees and then extracted into 10oz of oil that was at about 220 degrees for 2 hours (plus 30min or so of the temp ramping up). Victory! 

Gotta say, compared to the batch that prompted me to start this thread it's no contest. Like whoa. Decarbing = my new favorite thing. For me, at least, this is a definitive answer about whether to decarb and/or when to do it.


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## 2Kushed (Apr 30, 2013)

I am glad you see the light!!


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## 650baquet (May 1, 2013)

props to SkunkPharm andJump117 for the graph.
Don't know if this helps you any more at this point but here you go!


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## 650baquet (May 1, 2013)

this old guy i worked with said they used to take gound up herb in a spoon, then cover it in honey and hold it over a flame for a while...let it cool and eat it. He was full of stories which made days interesting at times lol but a good guy


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## 2Kushed (May 1, 2013)

I also heated cannabis in a spoon. First I added some honey oil, then ground cannabis. Heat from bottom and stir until mixed. Roll joint and enjoy.


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## 1blazeking (May 2, 2013)

Cooking it in oil automatically decarbs it. Notice the bubbles in the beginning, that's the water coming out and when it stops it's fully decarbed. For an alcohol tincture I guess its important though.


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## poplars (May 2, 2013)

Erysichthon said:


> I have been researching this for a while now. this most recent batch of oil, finished 5 min ago i took great attention with. i did decarb it before hand, up to about 235(and totally happy with that now) heres why.
> 
> im using the double boiler technique. only i use a mason jar for the second boiler, and in my cook i couldnt get my oil over 210ish. can anyone guess why?
> 
> ...



what elevation are you at? water boils based on elevation.


there is a method for decarbing in oil, I"m currently messing around with it, you can do it in oil, over a double boiler or in an oil bath (but be careful, it can get hotter than you need it to pretty quickly.) 

I'm doing 40 mins to 90 mins of heating, then 4-9 hours of freezing, repeating each time and testing 2 capsules to see potency differences. I've noticed after 4 of these cycles a SIGNIFICANT difference in potency, going to try a final heating cycle and see if it has any effect.


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## technical dan (May 3, 2013)

^ any thoughts on if it is the longer total heating periods or if it is the temp cycling that contributes to the increased potency? I assume it the cycling since thats what you are posting about so again any ideas why?


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## Sparty82 (May 8, 2013)

LadyZandra said:


> Hey "Sparty" You a REAL Spartan from E.L???
> GO MSU!!!!!



Class of 82, Living north of EL now but close enough to enjoy all it offers!

GO GREEN!!


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## Dogenzengi (May 11, 2013)

I vote Decarboxalation,
my reasons are from personal practice and about 60 hours of reading on the net and watching YouTube videos .
I believe that 220 for 15-20 minutes turns the THCN to THC.
The temp works for me, I have used it to produce a nice green dragon liquor and baked brownies, muffins, cookies.
always Decarboxalate to get the most from the bud, that is the general consensus I read.

I have read that raising the temp of the Decarboxalation to 320 degrees for 10 minutes will produce a CBD heavy bud.
reason is CBDN becomes CDB the same way as THC but at a higher temp.
I have not proved the above but I have done batches at two different temps and mixed before adding to alcohol for a very nice green dragn with couch lock.
Peace,
DZ


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## findme (May 13, 2013)

Meeeeech said:


> Hey all, I realize this is probably a common question, but I thought I'd be specific for what I'm doing. What I want to do is make potent canna-dipping oil for bread. I usually make brownies, and they kick my ass. Last time, though, I tried stopping after extracting the THC into oil and then adding some herbs and dipping my bread in it. It was okay, but not nearly as potent as when I make brownies. Most people have said that I should have decarbed the weed if I wasn't going to bake the oil into brownies.
> 
> Could someone explain why this is the case? Or if it is actually necessary? I never decarb when making brownies and they're fine. Also, I cook my oil at roughly 210-230 degrees, for what it's worth. Thanks!
> 
> p.s. - if you think decarbing is a necessity, could you link to a guide or explain how? Double thanks!



I vaporized most of my zip at 446F of my vaporizer and I ate 5 grams with noodles ( i should have parachuted it because it was disgusting!!!) and shit was melting on me when I took a bath. Drymouth hit me 20 mins or working out and the melting shit happened after an hour and a half. Woke up *next day* still high ( well actually stoned because I wasn't functional at all).. mom wanted to go to red lobster and we did and I had the munchies like you wouldn't believe. I never got full and I loved eating, I only had slight stomach pains next day which just shows you how powerful 5 grams of vaped weed 12+ ( probably more like 16-20 because i went to sleep after the bath because shit got strange lol) hours after ingestion really is. 

it was a pretty bad experience and I now know my limits of marijuana. I was a high tolerance user before doing this so i didn't think 5 grams was a lot... boy was I wrong.


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## ukclonebank (May 15, 2013)

I have found that when making ghee from butter for my cookies and choclates that they are stronger and more effective when not de-carbed ?
Why is this ??


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## PsychedelicSam (May 30, 2013)

It depends on the reefer you're using. Freshly harvested and cured "dank" needs to be decarbed but brickweed or last year's mids or air dried buds do not need be decarbed and can actually deteriorate your reefer by turning naturally decarbed matial, from age, into cbn with the added heat. Without that last step, it will give you a more cerebral, energetic effect, more in line with the Sativa it usually is. I have personally performed no decarb, partial decarb and full decarb on dank reefer and can attest to the differences. I've done them side my side and determined that the potency is equally as intense for each, but there is a definable difference it the properties, or effects of the resulting products.


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## ukclonebank (Jun 1, 2013)

PsychedelicSam said:


> It depends on the reefer you're using. Freshly harvested and cured "dank" needs to be decarbed but brickweed or last year's mids or air dried buds do not need be decarbed and can actually deteriorate your reefer by turning naturally decarbed matial, from age, into cbn with the added heat. Without that last step, it will give you a more cerebral, energetic effect, more in line with the Sativa it usually is. I have personally performed no decarb, partial decarb and full decarb on dank reefer and can attest to the differences. I've done them side my side and determined that the potency is equally as intense for each, but there is a definable difference it the properties, or effects of the resulting products.


Sound , I think I will re - read that when I am not wasted


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## poplars (Jun 1, 2013)

there are a lot of variables to it... the only way to truly know is to get your weed tested, and then get your extracts tested to know if you got your activation method down or not


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## poplars (Jun 2, 2013)

here's proof that I know how to decarb properly... notice the THCa... 0.00%...


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## PsychedelicSam (Jun 2, 2013)

poplars said:


> here's proof that I know how to decarb properly... notice the THCa... 0.00%...


This is your link:*edit got it thanks man*


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## Comatoke (Jun 24, 2013)

Okay everyone understands that the THCA needs to be converted for it to work. 

but

Wouldn't cooking the oil/butter turn most of that THCA into THC, especially when some people cook their oil/butter for 12+ hours?

Just a thought, don't know much on Canna Cooking yet.


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## 650baquet (Jul 14, 2013)

Comatoke said:


> Okay everyone understands that the THCA needs to be converted for it to work.
> 
> but
> 
> ...


If i'm going to bake a good to eat, i won't decarb before hand becuase decarbing should be completed in the oven.
If you want to get high off your oil with out baking it you're going to have to decarb it first.
Regardless heat is involved in order to get high 

So you are right, cooking does turn most of the THCA into THC...takes some times to nail a recipe with the right temp and time i'm sure.
I'm new to baking and looking forward to making some great edibles or even some canna-pops...or pills w/e you wanna call them.


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## 650baquet (Jul 14, 2013)

Also if you want to decarb dbl boiler style just use a hot veggie oil bath instead of water. can reach high temps no problem.
I use a Wok fryer with a candy thermometer and i'm actually just about to try it out for the second time.
I don't have much practice decarbing just starting to mess around with it.


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## technical dan (Jul 15, 2013)

adding salt to the water will also raise the boiling point


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## 2Kushed (Jul 16, 2013)

PsychedelicSam said:


> This is your link:*edit got it thanks man*


Actually it says the material was fully decarbed. Once your material is fully decarbed, the THC starts to degrade. You may have lost THC from decarbing too long. The only way that I know of to accurately decarb is to watch the CO2 coming off in the form of small bubbles. I do this by heating my concentrate (hash) to 250F for ~ 15-30 min. depending on how much the material is already decarbed before I started with it.


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## 650baquet (Jul 21, 2013)

technical dan said:


> adding salt to the water will also raise the boiling point


The boiling point of water is increased slightly, but not enough that you would notice the temperature difference. You would have to add 58 grams of salt just to raise the boiling point of a liter of water by one half of a degre Celsius.


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## BUDies (Jul 24, 2013)

Hmm how ar eyou guys making your butter? I use the crockpot method but I would think 14 hours in the crockpot would be more than enough to decarb


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## 2Kushed (Aug 4, 2013)

You don't need to add salt to raise the boiling point of water, use vegetable oil instead. 

Here is a decarb chart (from Jump), you can compare that to the temps you achive in the crock pot. As your material ages, it partially decarbs.


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## Yarnspinner (Sep 30, 2015)

Question: When making butter for non-psychoactive strains, would there be any reason to decarb?



Meeeeech said:


> Hey all, I realize this is probably a common question, but I thought I'd be specific for what I'm doing. What I want to do is make potent canna-dipping oil for bread. I usually make brownies, and they kick my ass. Last time, though, I tried stopping after extracting the THC into oil and then adding some herbs and dipping my bread in it. It was okay, but not nearly as potent as when I make brownies. Most people have said that I should have decarbed the weed if I wasn't going to bake the oil into brownies.
> 
> Could someone explain why this is the case? Or if it is actually necessary? I never decarb when making brownies and they're fine. Also, I cook my oil at roughly 210-230 degrees, for what it's worth.
> 
> p.s. - if you think decarbing is a necessity, could you link to a guide or explain how? Double thanks!


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## skepler (Oct 2, 2015)

Yarnspinner said:


> Question: When making butter for non-psychoactive strains, would there be any reason to decarb?


If you want the CBD to get to receptors in the brain it should be decarbed.


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## RAndree (Feb 16, 2016)

I am certainly new to all this. I recently tried my hand at making an oil for my vape. I made a tincture with 3.5 g mj and everclear. I did not decarboxylate due to mixed instructions. Some said that the vape process will take care of the process of decarb. I have two questions. Do I need to decarb before making a vape oil?

I followed the QWISO method on this post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/vaporents/comments/1sjj1r/four_different_methods_for_making_ecig_juice_in/

If so, is there any way to recover? I now have about 5 mL of oil, but have not tried it yet.

Thank you


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## skepler (Feb 21, 2016)

RAndree said:


> I am certainly new to all this. I recently tried my hand at making an oil for my vape. I made a tincture with 3.5 g mj and everclear. I did not decarboxylate due to mixed instructions. Some said that the vape process will take care of the process of decarb. I have two questions. Do I need to decarb before making a vape oil?
> 
> I followed the QWISO method on this post:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/vaporents/comments/1sjj1r/four_different_methods_for_making_ecig_juice_in/
> ...


Vaping will take care of the decarb, so no you do need to. I'm not sure about your second question, is it in reference to fixing an error?


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## RAndree (Feb 21, 2016)

skepler said:


> Vaping will take care of the decarb, so no you do need to. I'm not sure about your second question, is it in reference to fixing an error?


I guess so. My question is whether or not I can do something to change the potency at this point? Will making a stronger second oil and mixing the two work? What will adding more pg vs vg do?


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## skepler (Feb 22, 2016)

RAndree said:


> I guess so. My question is whether or not I can do something to change the potency at this point? Will making a stronger second oil and mixing the two work? What will adding more pg vs vg do?


I wouldn't add any VG, it does not mix with wax/shatter. You can make it stronger by adding more extract or a stronger mix with PG.


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