# Using MH bulb for last 2 weeks of harvest? What is the science?



## ChesusRice (Jan 16, 2013)

I read that using a MH bulb the last 2 weeks of Harvest will increase resin and trichome production. What is the science if any behind that? I understand why Cacti produce mescaline, It is bitter to anything that trys to eat it. But what is the science behind using MH? People have said use it the last 2 weeks and it will promote production. But the last 2 weeks is when the plant is bulking up and producing more trichomes anyways. So how can you tell the difference?


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## Sunbiz1 (Jan 16, 2013)

MH bulbs emit UV/UVB radiation when not coated, so yes...they will certainly beef-up a harvest when mixed with an HPS(which emit ZERO UV)...or even a CFL grow using 2700K flowering bulbs.


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## ChesusRice (Jan 16, 2013)

Sunbiz1 said:


> MH bulbs emit UV/UVB radiation when not coated, so yes...they will certainly beef-up a harvest when mixed with an HPS(which emit ZERO UV)...or even a CFL grow using 2700K flowering bulbs.


Do you need to take the glass off the hood?

Fuck it never mind
Here is the solution
http://www.petguys.com/-097612340100.html?productid=-097612340100&channelid=FROOG&utm_source=CSEs&utm_medium=GoogleShopping&utm_campaign=PetGuys


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## racerboy71 (Jan 16, 2013)

i've been using mh's for my entire grow for like the past 3 or so grows after talking to someone on another forum about sunpulse mh's..

the sunpulses come in various k ratings, much in the same way the cfl's do... you just buy the correct k rating for w/e phase of growth you're in at the time.. ie, i use the 6 k for veg, and the 3 k's for flowering.. they even offer a 10k for the last two weeks of flowering, which i have, but have yet to run it yet..
like has been said, mh's have light in the uv range, which is supposed to increase tric production.. it's believed that trics are used by plants kind of like a sun tan lotion... the more exposure to uv lighting, the more tric production on that plant, or that's the science behind it although i'm not 100% about it tbh..
it's also said that the you get a fuller flavor profile from using mh's over hps bulbs.. something about the way mh's effect the terpenoids in cannabis..

overall, like i said, been running the sunpulse mh's for a good three of so grows now, and i have to say i'm impressed.. i'm loving them.. the blue dream i just ran has to be some of the stunkiest bud i have grown to date.. is it all the mh's or do i just kick ass at growing, lol, idk, but what i do know is i'm not going back to hps anytime soon.. it has been said though that hps bulbs will increase your yields while mh's will increase just about everything else, ie, tric production, flavor, etc, etc..


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## racerboy71 (Jan 16, 2013)

edit, the reason i started to ask about the sunpulses in the first place was that i was running a digital ballast and was using eye hortilux blue brand bulbs, about $110 or so per..
about a month into a new bulb i went to check on the girls and the bulb had blew.. yeah, i was pissed to say the least.. the sunpulses like a few other brands like digilux and oshio are said to be made in conjunction with the higher frequencies that digital ballasts fire at, extending the life in the process..


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## ChesusRice (Jan 16, 2013)

racerboy71 said:


> edit, the reason i started to ask about the sunpulses in the first place was that i was running a digital ballast and was using eye hortilux blue brand bulbs, about $110 or so per..
> about a month into a new bulb i went to check on the girls and the bulb had blew.. yeah, i was pissed to say the least.. the sunpulses like a few other brands like digilux and oshio are said to be made in conjunction with the higher frequencies that digital ballasts fire at, extending the life in the process..


Local store guy is pimping the 10k bulbs but says you need a digital ballast for that


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## polyarcturus (Jan 16, 2013)

Sunbiz1 said:


> MH bulbs emit UV/UVB radiation when not coated, so yes...they will certainly beef-up a harvest when mixed with an HPS(which emit ZERO UV)...or even a CFL grow using 2700K flowering bulbs.


face palm.


anyways MH dont emit UVB coated or not, its all in the galss its made from, the coat is for UVA and protection fabrics from fading and sunpulse never got back to me, so i highly doubt they are using the proper glass to emit UVB so all you can count on them for is some UVA and deep blues which can emulate the effects of UVB.

but besides all that using MH last 2 weeks of flower wont hurt, probably would increase thc level a little, but your buds will probably not get larger during that time period tho.(vs using hps) and the frostyness acheived porbably wont be all as impressive as you thought.


@racerboy ask dbkick about the 10k sunpulse he used it the last 2 weeks.... from what ive seen of db i say that was normal frostiness for him and it didnt do much of anything.


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## polyarcturus (Jan 16, 2013)

also racerboy ive switched up to more MH dominant grow too, my results using an MH vs. and HPS the MH has been dominating. although i contaminated my results by adding a 270w hps.
also im just using a regular old hortilux mh 400w on mag ballast. MH has more PAR light than hps and thats the fact of the matter. hps should really only be used for mid and end of flower in my new opinion. IMNO


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## ChesusRice (Jan 16, 2013)

They dont make sunpulses in 10k at 1000 watts
As far as MH I guess if you have good genetics It wouldnt be worth losing weight over a small increase in frostiness. Especially if the leaves look like someone puked sugar all over them anyways


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## Kite High (Jan 16, 2013)

ChesusRice said:


> Do you need to take the glass off the hood?
> 
> Fuck it never mind
> Here is the solution
> http://www.petguys.com/-097612340100.html?productid=-097612340100&channelid=FROOG&utm_source=CSEs&utm_medium=GoogleShopping&utm_campaign=PetGuys


nope not the solution will not provide enough ...here you go as these are the only AFFORDABLE sources for uvb amounts high enough and without too much heat available
http://www.reptileuv.com/megaray-metal-halide-uvb.php
http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/ard3t546in54.html
See i have found with my meter that at least 150 uw/cm2 is the least amount needed to produce ratio manipulation and anything over 400 uw/cm2 reduces yield with no more increase in affect

Also uvb exposure throughout the entire grow sprout to chop same lighting schedule as your main lighting produces the best outcome


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## polyarcturus (Jan 16, 2013)

ChesusRice said:


> They dont make sunpulses in 10k at 1000 watts
> As far as MH I guess if you have good genetics It wouldnt be worth losing weight over a small increase in frostiness. Especially if the leaves look like someone puked sugar all over them anyways


exactly. kite high pointed you in a good direction if your interested in UVB but there are also reptile flourescents, which are okay, good for small grows, and mercury vapor bulbs for reptiles which are powerful and good for lager grow but have thier pit falls too, but these are the ones i prefer.


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## ChesusRice (Jan 16, 2013)

I fucked up

Maybe if i ever grew i would try it anyways

I'm so confused


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## Kite High (Jan 16, 2013)

racerboy71 said:


> i've been using mh's for my entire grow for like the past 3 or so grows after talking to someone on another forum about sunpulse mh's..
> 
> the sunpulses come in various k ratings, much in the same way the cfl's do... you just buy the correct k rating for w/e phase of growth you're in at the time.. ie, i use the 6 k for veg, and the 3 k's for flowering.. they even offer a 10k for the last two weeks of flowering, which i have, but have yet to run it yet..
> like has been said, mh's have light in the uv range, which is supposed to increase tric production.. it's believed that trics are used by plants kind of like a sun tan lotion... the more exposure to uv lighting, the more tric production on that plant, or that's the science behind it although i'm not 100% about it tbh..
> ...


well there are no hid bulbs that emit enough uv to cause effect...it takes a quartz glass formulation to allow uvb through...regular glass as used for the outer envelopes is regular glass and due to hids being manufactured to be around people hey do not allow uvb emmision

now there are some new studies suggesting that the blue wavelengths, 400nm-450nm have some of the same causations as uvb and vice versa but i n the ratio manipulation it is not as effective so that is probably the improvement you are witnessing from the mh


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## Sunbiz1 (Jan 16, 2013)

ChesusRice said:


> Do you need to take the glass off the hood?
> 
> Fuck it never mind
> Here is the solution
> http://www.petguys.com/-097612340100.html?productid=-097612340100&channelid=FROOG&utm_source=CSEs&utm_medium=GoogleShopping&utm_campaign=PetGuys


Hehe!, most *grow bulbs are sold without a safety coating. Sorry, I should have mentioned that fact as opposed to assuming people who actually buy them would bother to research.


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## Sunbiz1 (Jan 16, 2013)

Kite High said:


> well there are no hid bulbs that emit enough uv to cause effect...it takes a quartz glass formulation to allow uvb through...regular glass as used for the outer envelopes is regular glass and due to hids being manufactured to be around people hey do not allow uvb emmision
> 
> now there are some new studies suggesting that the blue wavelengths, 400nm-450nm have some of the same causations as uvb and vice versa but i n the ratio manipulation it is not as effective so that is probably the improvement you are witnessing from the mh



well there are no hid bulbs that emit enough uv to cause effect>>>

>>>LINK?


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## colonuggs (Jan 16, 2013)

thats all i use is mh for the entire grow... for years now

$23 a bulb for 1000s 4000k.. case of 6 for $150....Same bulb at the grow store $85-95


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## Kite High (Jan 16, 2013)

Sunbiz1 said:


> well there are no hid bulbs that emit enough uv to cause effect>>>
> 
> >>>LINK?


per my solartech uvb meter...its the glass of the outer envelope that is the wrong formulation for uvb emissions ..has to be that way as hid bulbs available except for the one I listed above are designed for use around people and its a fed regulation law of very little allowed uvb if around people

please excuse my vernacular as I am really very high on dabs...lol


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## Kite High (Jan 16, 2013)

Sunbiz1 said:


> Hehe!, most *grow bulbs are sold without a safety coating. Sorry, I should have mentioned that fact as opposed to assuming people who actually buy them would bother to research.


the safety coating would be to block uva to prevent fabric paint fading etc....but it is the glass formulation that blocks the uvb and uvb is what causes the effect of ratio manipulation we seek


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## Kite High (Jan 16, 2013)

colonuggs said:


> thats all i use is mh for the entire grow... for years now
> 
> $23 a bulb for 1000s 4000k.. case of 6 for $150....Same bulb at the grow store $85-95


Nice...question...your reasons for vertical oriented bulbs in parabolic reflectors?


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## ChesusRice (Jan 16, 2013)

colonuggs said:


> thats all i use is mh for the entire grow... for years now
> 
> $23 a bulb for 1000s 4000k.. case of 6 for $150....Same bulb at the grow store $85-95


Have you tried using HPS and compare the results?


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## polyarcturus (Jan 16, 2013)

colonuggs said:


> thats all i use is mh for the entire grow... for years now
> 
> $23 a bulb for 1000s 4000k.. case of 6 for $150....Same bulb at the grow store $85-95


you where reading my other thread advocating the 4000k mh bulbs werent you?


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## polyarcturus (Jan 16, 2013)

Kite High said:


> Nice...question...your reasons for vertical oriented bulbs in parabolic reflectors?


better light distribution, more indirect light, and bulbs run way cooler. i run similar setup. minus the hood but when your in a 2x4 tent with 400w bare bulb vertically oriented , it is the hood.




ChesusRice said:


> Have you tried using HPS and compare the results?


i have recently. my MH plants are killing my HPS plants in quality and in overall happyness of the plant, although i contaminated my results by adding a 270w hps


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## M Dogg (Jan 16, 2013)

Why not just use both all the way, that way you can more closely replicate the suns rays. Isn't that the whole point?


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## polyarcturus (Jan 16, 2013)

M Dogg said:


> Why not just use both all the way, that way you can more closely replicate the suns rays. Isn't that the whole point?


hmmm ive done this, top notch results too.


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## urgod (Jan 17, 2013)

i thought its the UV rays from the MH that stimulate resin production. You could also use tanning lights  . UV also destroys resin... so unless you know the perfect ratio of UV, you might do more harm than good bro


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## Krondizzel (Jan 17, 2013)

I stop using MH bulbs once my transition is over and the white hairs are appearing. Then full HPS.


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## Kite High (Jan 17, 2013)

urgod said:


> i thought its the UV rays from the MH that stimulate resin production. You could also use tanning lights  . UV also destroys resin... so unless you know the perfect ratio of UV, you might do more harm than good bro


tanning lights are mostly uva...and are more costly and cumbersome than what I listed...IMO a decent uvb meter is needed to do it right....more than 400uw/cm2 will decrease yield with no additional effect


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## ChesusRice (Jan 17, 2013)

Krondizzel said:


> I stop using MH bulbs once my transition is over and the white hairs are appearing. Then full HPS.


This is what almost everyone does

I think what I will do one of these days is get the dual arc bulb


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## colonuggs (Jan 17, 2013)

Kite High said:


> Nice...question...your reasons for vertical oriented bulbs in parabolic reflectors?


360* light.... not 180* and the other 1/2 bounced & reflected....using my light meter ...there is a noticable difference between them.

to get the same lux/footcandles.. the hori has to be in a 4x4 area... the vert can be a in a 5x5

settin up 4 luxors in a 10 x10 (vertical vented square parabolic with glass)


[video=youtube;2zVzgPPDTsE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zVzgPPDTsE[/video]


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## colonuggs (Jan 17, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> you where reading my other thread advocating the 4000k mh bulbs werent you?



No...dont even know who you are.... if you look on other websites.... i tell everyone to use the sylvania bt56 for the entire grow
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=243060

They try it...they are surprized by the results 


In my 20 + of growing the kind.....I tired hps, combo and all mh... through multipul grows and experimentation...

IMO mh produces heavier densier buds... the end product is kick ass

Everyone should try their own experiments and go with what works best for them


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## chuck estevez (Jan 17, 2013)

take a look at the way sunmaster is headed, they are coming out with a finishing bulb and it's blue. http://www.sunmastergrowlamps.com/


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## ynkessuck247 (Jan 17, 2013)

If anything, use the MH 2 week in the beginning of flowering. This could reduce stretching because of less red light emitted.


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## polyarcturus (Jan 17, 2013)

colonuggs said:


> No...dont even know who you are.... if you look on other websites.... i tell everyone to use the sylvania bt56 for the entire grow
> https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=243060
> 
> They try it...they are surprized by the results
> ...



no im not on another websites, but i agree with you 100% the 4000k is the bomb ass bulb. and me too, to many experiments to list but it seems i am coming to the same conclusion as you, that MH is better and vertical positioning for the bulbs provide better lighting.


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## ChesusRice (Jan 17, 2013)

My local store is selling a 10k bulb for 99


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## Mcwhippin420 (Jan 17, 2013)

Yo I got sun system 2... 400w hps / mh my 3 bagseed girls got couple weeks left been using eye hortilux HPS n 2 days out week switching to mh... Also have a dual arc bulb not sure if it's mh or hps tho gotta ask dude bought it off lol the case to light says nothing so I should use MH for rest of flowering ??  think I'm try that never have to switch bulbs lol


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## Kite High (Jan 17, 2013)

colonuggs said:


> 360* light.... not 180* and the other 1/2 bounced & reflected....using my light meter ...there is a noticable difference between them.
> 
> to get the same lux/footcandles.. the hori has to be in a 4x4 area... the vert can be a in a 5x5
> 
> ...


Thank you. Am familiar with the Luxor. So more even distribution is the reason. Simplifies things as no need for light movers.


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## Kite High (Jan 17, 2013)

colonuggs said:


> No...dont even know who you are.... if you look on other websites.... i tell everyone to use the sylvania bt56 for the entire grow
> https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=243060
> 
> They try it...they are surprized by the results
> ...


i believe that the Luxor equipped with this should kick ass
http://www.growlightexpress.com/ceramic-metal-halide-bulbs-9/philips-energy-advantage-cdm-allstart-lamp-830-watt-1943.html


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## blindbaby (Jan 17, 2013)

i swich from whatever hps im using, like eye, or ushio, to sunmaster, last half of flower.


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## smellzlikeskunkyum (Jan 20, 2013)

racerboy71 said:


> edit, the reason i started to ask about the sunpulses in the first place was that i was running a digital ballast and was using eye hortilux blue brand bulbs, about $110 or so per..
> about a month into a new bulb i went to check on the girls and the bulb had blew.. yeah, i was pissed to say the least.. the sunpulses like a few other brands like digilux and oshio are said to be made in conjunction with the higher frequencies that digital ballasts fire at, extending the life in the process..


i have a lumatek 600 hps. i kept blowing bulbs left and right until i shelled out the dough for an eye hortilux super hps. best bulb i ever bought. i even noticed a difference in the quality of buds, over the other hps bulbs i was using.

i hear alot about using MH over hps... i dont know if i agree 100% tho. i watched a grow a while back that had an awful lot of blue light on one side, and pure standard hps on the other. on the blue side the plants got super lanky, and only in spots where the light was intense did i notice heavier resin production. in fact the hps bud ended up being better in general. and the blue bulb was brand new... the other wasnt.

now im speaking of an hps that was blue, not a MH. im just very skeptical of UVB doing anything for resin. if it really made a big difference im sure the market would be flooded with new uvb inventions. only thing i see that may shows a slight difference is in LED lighting. personally i only believe it helps LED. not hid.


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## ChesusRice (Jan 20, 2013)

colonuggs said:


> thats all i use is mh for the entire grow... for years now
> 
> $23 a bulb for 1000s 4000k.. case of 6 for $150....Same bulb at the grow store $85-95


Oh Christmas tree Oh Christmas tree.................


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## cannawizard (Jan 20, 2013)

ChesusRice said:


> I read that using a MH bulb the last 2 weeks of Harvest will increase resin and trichome production. What is the science if any behind that? I understand why Cacti produce mescaline, It is bitter to anything that trys to eat it. But what is the science behind using MH? People have said use it the last 2 weeks and it will promote production. But the last 2 weeks is when the plant is bulking up and producing more trichomes anyways. So how can you tell the difference?


.."the science" was probably about adding another spectrum since a full spectrum (adding blues) would benefit the plant's overall floral development, and/or, the addition of UVb (mh was *mentioned to emit UVb).. 

#cheers


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## ChesusRice (Jan 22, 2013)

Ok back to this
If MH has more ultra violet
Does that also mean you need to remove the glass on the hood?
Because I heard glass filters out UV


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## harley420 (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah I had only been running 3K of hps and I had beentalking with my local store guy aswell I switched to 2K hps and 1K MH and I can honestly say I won't be going back to all hps I however use the combo throughout veg to flower and the results are fantastic as far asgoing to say everyone has different methods n such.


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## harley420 (Jan 22, 2013)

And the hps I use is hortilux so it also has spectrum in the blue violet range I'm on the hortilux train


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## ChesusRice (Jan 22, 2013)

But if you dont have the cash for the Hortilux or the Dual spectrum lamps
Would you use MH in the last 2 weeks and if you did, do you need to remove the glass from the hood?


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## Kite High (Jan 22, 2013)

ChesusRice said:


> Ok back to this
> If MH has more ultra violet
> Does that also mean you need to remove the glass on the hood?
> Because I heard glass filters out UV


Upon testing of a TON of horti use bulbs with a uvb meter there are no hid bulbs for horti use that put out useful amounts of uvb...the reason for this is their primary use is for lighting around people so law mandates a very low level of uvb emmission... So no need for removing the glass unless the 8% increase in light power worth it to you

Now there are some recent findings that blue light exhibits much of the same effects on plants as uvb but to a lesser degree and this is probably the reasoning behind the anecdotal findings of growers and the recommendation of the swapout at the end

I am of the blue is good camp and feel it should always be there and the full spectrum, as close as possible to the sun in spectrum is best including uvb

I say try it and see if YOU or YOUR grower friend like it


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## ChesusRice (Jan 22, 2013)

Kite High said:


> Upon testing of a TON of horti use bulbs with a uvb meter there are no hid bulbs for horti use that put out useful amounts of uvb...the reason for this is their primary use is for lighting around people so law mandates a very low level of uvb emmission... So no need for removing the glass unless the 8% increase in light power worth it to you
> 
> Now there are some recent findings that blue light exhibits much of the same effects on plants as uvb but to a lesser degree and this is probably the reasoning behind the anecdotal findings of growers and the recommendation of the swapout at the end
> 
> ...


My hypothetical grower freind doesnt want to fuck around with the important times in the plants life cycle

And I have personally talked with the Sales guy at a hydro store who said dual spectrum lamps are not worth it because of decrease in lumens
Of course he wants to sell digital ballasts and he is pushing a 10k bulb


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## Kite High (Jan 22, 2013)

ChesusRice said:


> My local store is selling a 10k bulb for 99


http://www.growlightsupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_61_79&products_id=287





[h=2]$61.95  $42.47
Save: 31% off[/h]


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## Kite High (Jan 22, 2013)

I am sold on CMH throughout myself


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## ChesusRice (Jan 23, 2013)

Let me know when they make a 1000 watt
Phillips is coming out with a 830 watt that runs on metal halide but no one has it


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## Kite High (Jan 23, 2013)

ChesusRice said:


> Let me know when they make a 1000 watt
> Phillips is coming out with a 830 watt that runs on metal halide but no one has it









It is out and available here:

http://www.platt.com/platt-electric-supply/HID-Metal-Halide-Traditional/Philips-Lighting/CDM830-V-O-4K/product.aspx?zpid=868804

It runs on a 1000 watt mh ballast...vertical only ...so I would pop it into this:





Best deal I found on it is here:
http://www.ehydroponics.com/luxor-reflector-8?&cid=12

Would be awesome but at the moment I am satisfied using 2 400s in PL Deep Reflectors on movers overhead and one in a cool tube below the canopy


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## ChesusRice (Jan 23, 2013)

What happens if you burn them horizontally?


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## Kite High (Jan 23, 2013)

Idk but most probably spectrum change and premature failure. But it could be found out I suppose. An email to Philips would probably get the answer.


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## gamestwin (Jan 26, 2013)

colonuggs said:


> 360* light.... not 180* and the other 1/2 bounced & reflected....using my light meter ...there is a noticable difference between them.
> 
> to get the same lux/footcandles.. the hori has to be in a 4x4 area... the vert can be a in a 5x5
> 
> ...


WOW NOW I'M REALLY.CONFUSED. Was about to buy a O.G Then I see this Wat to do Wat to do?


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## polyarcturus (Jan 26, 2013)

buy the OG its better designed.


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## BCBuddy420 (Jan 26, 2013)

ChesusRice said:


> I read that using a MH bulb the last 2 weeks of Harvest will increase resin and trichome production. What is the science if any behind that? I understand why Cacti produce mescaline, It is bitter to anything that trys to eat it. But what is the science behind using MH? People have said use it the last 2 weeks and it will promote production. But the last 2 weeks is when the plant is bulking up and producing more trichomes anyways. So how can you tell the difference?


 It's the ultraviolet rays it emits. The best way to describe it is when coupled with HPS it closest mimics the spectrum of the sun, or so long experienced growers have told me. I used half MH and half HPS (staggered and plants rotated between each often) in my last two grows and the finished product was intense. I recommend the use of MH in flowering 100 % regardless of being the last two weeks or not. Use it through the entire flowering phase IMO.


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## Kite High (Jan 26, 2013)

polyarcturus said:


> buy the OG its better designed.


Personally I do not find it superior as well as being much more costly with inferior cooling capabilities...the numbers are so close and it depends who does the testing...but again the numbers are so close light wise that the money difference would lean me to the luxor


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## BCBuddy420 (Jan 26, 2013)

racerboy71 said:


> i've been using mh's for my entire grow for like the past 3 or so grows after talking to someone on another forum about sunpulse mh's..
> 
> the sunpulses come in various k ratings, much in the same way the cfl's do... you just buy the correct k rating for w/e phase of growth you're in at the time.. ie, i use the 6 k for veg, and the 3 k's for flowering.. they even offer a 10k for the last two weeks of flowering, which i have, but have yet to run it yet..
> like has been said, mh's have light in the uv range, which is supposed to increase tric production.. it's believed that trics are used by plants kind of like a sun tan lotion... the more exposure to uv lighting, the more tric production on that plant, or that's the science behind it although i'm not 100% about it tbh..
> ...


I run staggered 1k's of each in my room for that balance between the two. MH seems to burn way hotter IMO though so it's also something to think about when preparing an MH flowering room.


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## Kite High (Jan 26, 2013)

BCBuddy420 said:


> It's the ultraviolet rays it emits. The best way to describe it is when coupled with HPS it closest mimics the spectrum of the sun, or so long experienced growers have told me. I used half MH and half HPS (staggered and plants rotated between each often) in my last two grows and the finished product was intense. I recommend the use of MH in flowering 100 % regardless of being the last two weeks or not. Use it through the entire flowering phase IMO.


I disagree as horti mh's do not produce useful amounts of uvb...in most likelihood it is the increased blue which causes pretty much the came effects as uvb but to a lesser dgree...also could be the more complete spectrum...plain and simple a uvb specific light source is indicated to fully bring out the effects of uvb cannabinoid ratio manipulation


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## BCBuddy420 (Jan 27, 2013)

Kite High said:


> I disagree as horti mh's do not produce useful amounts of uvb...in most likelihood it is the increased blue which causes pretty much the came effects as uvb but to a lesser dgree...also could be the more complete spectrum...plain and simple a uvb specific light source is indicated to fully bring out the effects of uvb cannabinoid ratio manipulation


 I'm picking up what your putting down but... can you tell me why horticulture MH's don't provide as much uvb as -------? I can't find any supportive info on this topic. Ed Rosenthal posted a discussion awhile ago on the use of this balance of spectrum and it's tremendous positive affects on trichome production and he's talking regular MH grow bulbs. If there is a better source of uvb I'd love to know so I can look into it. Thanks, I always appreciate learning about something I don't know.


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## Kite High (Jan 27, 2013)

BCBuddy420 said:


> I'm picking up what your putting down but... can you tell me why horticulture MH's don't provide as much uvb as -------? I can't find any supportive info on this topic. Ed Rosenthal posted a discussion awhile ago on the use of this balance of spectrum and it's tremendous positive affects on trichome production and he's talking regular MH grow bulbs. If there is a better source of uvb I'd love to know so I can look into it. Thanks, I always appreciate learning about something I don't know.


mostly from my testing with a uvb meter as well as the fact that even horti bulbs are actually manufactured for use around people and fed law limits the amount of uvb emissions...secondly the glass used in the formulation of the outer envelope is of a regular and economical formulation which inhibit uvb much to their profitable delight as the glass need to include quartz in the formulation to allow uvb to pass through is more costly to manufacture
these are the only affordable lamps for uvb which produce the amounts of uvb to cause the effect
http://www.lightyourreptiles.com/ard3t546in54.html
http://www.reptileuv.com/megaray-metal-halide-uvb.php

I do believe that mh during flower increases quality/potency and already my opinion of how and why above... I also am a CMH user as I havew found the results more to my liking than mh, hps, mh.hps...am also a fan of cmh/hps in flower at a 2 cmh to 1 hps ratio...
I do not place much faith in mr. Rosenthal as he is a marketing piuppet that is paid to feed misinformation to increase sales for the chosen few as well as he is a good author and marketer and in my experience flat out lies if it pays well

Hope this helps


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## ChesusRice (Jan 27, 2013)

I would like to say MH doesnt increase frostiness. Probably just the opposite.


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## Kite High (Jan 27, 2013)

I also have not found uvb to increase it either. But definitely changes the ratios to a more pleasing high for me as well as increased creeper affect and potency


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## dolofarmer (Jan 27, 2013)

A simple answer is because the MH light spectrum produces more UV light than HPS, UV light makes the trichs more potent. Friends of mine use MH over HPS for quality over quantity purposes. HPS light is also great though, especially if you are going for weight!


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## Kite High (Jan 27, 2013)

dolofarmer said:


> A simple answer is because the MH light spectrum produces more UV light than HPS, UV light makes the trichs more potent. Friends of mine use MH over HPS for quality over quantity purposes. HPS light is also great though, especially if you are going for weight!


WOW people do not read do they...mh does not produce uvb in any effective amounts without an outer envelope glass formulation containing quartz


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## ChesusRice (Jan 27, 2013)

Im just thinking I seen pictures of frosty buds that got less frosty after switched over to MH from HPS
And just by that I would say it doesnt work


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## PJ Diaz (Jan 27, 2013)

ChesusRice said:


> Im just thinking I seen pictures of frosty buds that got less frosty after switched over to MH from HPS
> And just by that I would say it doesnt work


That seems far from scientific. I could take two pics of the same bud a minute apart and make one look less frosty with simple photography lighting techniques. Looking at pictures and basing judgment solely off that is very two dimensional (pun intended).


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## Scotch089 (Jan 27, 2013)

Good chart Kite, source?


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## Kite High (Jan 27, 2013)

Scotch089 said:


> Good chart Kite, source?


http://advancedtechlighting.com/cmhfact3.htm


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## ChesusRice (Jan 27, 2013)

PJ Diaz said:


> That seems far from scientific. I could take two pics of the same bud a minute apart and make one look less frosty with simple photography lighting techniques. Looking at pictures and basing judgment solely off that is very two dimensional (pun intended).


I'm going to stick with
Look less frosty


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## colonuggs (Feb 1, 2013)

looks of frostiness.... has nothing to do with genetics and thc % of that plant

If your plants genetics say 15% thc content ....nothing you do will give you a higher %


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## Dwezelitsame (Feb 5, 2013)

more trichs does not = more thc 

thc is predetermined in genetics 

i have had plants with lots of trichs 

weaker then plants with less trichs 

and i have had small trichs stronger then big trichs 




but to original question 
in beginning first 1/3 of flower mh or cmh best = for reduced stretch 
middle sage second 1/3 of flowe hps best = rock hard buds 
the last staage is best served by mh or cmh = to get the best resuls from final bulk up 


1Luv


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## thoumayest (Feb 6, 2013)

ChesusRice said:


> Local store guy is pimping the 10k bulbs but says you need a digital ballast for that



"Pimping" LMAO!!! 

...brother thats exactly how I feel. I called the dude out one time...striaght up. I asked "Is this product good (green planet nutes) or do you just make sick profits off if it...be honest" 

Dude went wide eye on me lol


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## Kite High (Feb 6, 2013)

thoumayest said:


> "Pimping" LMAO!!!
> 
> ...brother thats exactly how I feel. I called the dude out one time...striaght up. I asked "Is this product good (green planet nutes) or do you just make sick profits off if it...be honest"
> 
> Dude went wide eye on me lol


green Planet. The AN wannabes.


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## blindbaby (Feb 9, 2013)

i;l bet it smelled so nice in there..


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## blindbaby (Feb 9, 2013)

no profits. no jobs. profits good. not bad.


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## jojodancer10 (Feb 11, 2013)

View attachment 2520375. Well guys this is my Dj short blue moonshine under a eye hort. The hps does put on weight but I never flowered with a MH.I won't mind trying to flower with a mh but I don't want disapointments.


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## zack66 (Feb 11, 2013)

racerboy71 said:


> i've been using mh's for my entire grow for like the past 3 or so grows after talking to someone on another forum about sunpulse mh's..
> 
> the sunpulses come in various k ratings, much in the same way the cfl's do... you just buy the correct k rating for w/e phase of growth you're in at the time.. ie, i use the 6 k for veg, and the 3 k's for flowering.. they even offer a 10k for the last two weeks of flowering, which i have, but have yet to run it yet..
> like has been said, mh's have light in the uv range, which is supposed to increase tric production.. it's believed that trics are used by plants kind of like a sun tan lotion... the more exposure to uv lighting, the more tric production on that plant, or that's the science behind it although i'm not 100% about it tbh..
> ...


I also am using the sunpulse 3k and I love it. Buds are much denser than when I was running an hps. And you can take good pics of your ladies with the lights on.


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## jojodancer10 (Feb 11, 2013)

I been doing some reading about that sunpulse....tell me more


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## zack66 (Feb 11, 2013)

One thing is they aren't cheap. But, I think the price is worth it with the end results. Sunpulse says to run their 10k the last couple weeks of flower. I'm going to break down and buy one in a few weeks. Just put my ladies on 12/12.


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## Kite High (Feb 11, 2013)

sun pulse are lying misleading money grubbers...all they do to change the kelvin temp rating is manipulate the yellow and green portions of the spectrum which changes nothing for the plants...buyer beware the poppy cock


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## zack66 (Feb 11, 2013)

Kite High said:


> sun pulse are lying misleading money grubbers...all they do to change the kelvin temp rating is manipulate the yellow and green portions of the spectrum which changes nothing for the plants...buyer beware the poppy cock


Really? My last run I used the 3k and my yield was around 20% more than using a standard hps. Thought running the 10k would make it even better. Have you tried them? I have a buddy that grows some amazing AK-47 with sunpulse. A few folks on RIU have had some good luck with them also. To each his own I guess.


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## Kite High (Feb 11, 2013)

Oh I am not knocking you your choice nor your grows..please do not take it that way... I just do not like dishonesty from manufacturers
I am a cmh user and it definitely flowers better than hps as well...although I found that 1 hps and 2 cmh in flower produced best yield without any quality drop...cmh also raises potency...but I use many different sources together from uvb t5 and mh to actinic t5 pink t5 and cmh/ hps...pretty much enhanced sunlight indoors


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## zack66 (Feb 11, 2013)

I see a few guys on here running hps throughout the whole grow. What are your thoughts on those? And i'd rather not spend 130 bucks on the 10k if it's not going to make much of a difference. In what way is Sunpulse misleading? I'm no expert with indoor and always looking for ways to tweek my grows for better overall success.


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## Kite High (Feb 11, 2013)

i am not a hps fan...lol...causes too much lankiness in veg

sunpulse is not really changing much in the bulbs for the different ratings other than mostly the amount of green/yellow...that is the problem with k temp ratings...it does little to indicate spectrum output...hence I am sure why I have not seen any spectral analysis charts for sunpulse bulbs... if there are any I would love to see them


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## zack66 (Feb 11, 2013)

I'ii check and see if I can find some info. Thanks


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## polyarcturus (Feb 11, 2013)

Kite High said:


> i am not a hps fan...lol...causes too much lankiness in veg
> 
> sunpulse is not really changing much in the bulbs for the different ratings other than mostly the amount of green/yellow...that is the problem with k temp ratings...it does little to indicate spectrum output...hence I am sure why I have not seen any spectral analysis charts for sunpulse bulbs... if there are any I would love to see them


me and my boy are giving them a good bashing right now too.... you should read the politicking assholes email back to him.
*Hello, 

SunPulse lamps are made for living things. We don't dope the glass the way other companies do to block UV, and our glass is expensive and custom made. We do have a UV meter, yes. This has all been tested, our lamps have been out for 13 years. All testing data is in our archives, but you've reached technical support. I'm not in charge of the archives. 

What I can tell you is that any lamp graph is a combination of a particular lamp in a particular fixture with a particular ballast. If you change any one component, you change the graph. Each customers installation is different. If someone overdrives our lamps in a shitty Lumatek ballast, they will change the spectral output by overdriving the voltage to the lamp. That's just one example. Dimming is just under-driving, changing the spectral output again. 

My message to a "forum" on UV light......Plants just want the Sun. The Sun never changes, its always the same. Humans won't reinvent nature, evolution or plant physiology and the plants demand for proper photosynthesis. To focus on UV is like focusing on "treble" in a song, there's a lot more going on in the song. Plants evolved with all the light of the Sun and UV is one part of that light. End of story. Their "hot topic" was all figured out a long time ago. It's not new, its just plant science and life science. 

I suspect its the people who use HPS light that are talking about UV's, because HPS light has no usable UV for plants, so the plants are anemic. HPS light is the worst light ever made for any living thing, its only 22% of the Sun. Any plant ever grown under an HPS light has been genetically drifted at a cellular level. 

We're the only company that are plant scientists who make lighting for plants. If you want to learn more about basic plant physiology, or photo-biology, you can contact the Hydroponic Society of America. If you want to learn more from me about all this, it would take more than an email to educate you on light science, photo-biology and plant physiology. You have my number, and in this day and age of technology, the hearing impaired have plenty of advantages. There's certainly phone services available to you. Call anytime or let me know if you prefer to Skype or something. 

Regards, 
Dan 
SunPulse *


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## Kite High (Feb 11, 2013)

sure wants you to call so you cant share what he says as you just did...his answer is obviously pure bullshit


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## Rancho Cucamonga (Feb 11, 2013)

As for MH or HPS I think there are small benefits to mix the two in flower, as for the last 2 weeks under MH I have no idea why such a change in light spectrum for so little time near the end of a complete grow cycle would help at all. 
As for Sun Pulse, they are a scam. We used these bulbs back in late 2011, when I was mostly assisting my grow buddy rather then growing on my own. I remember they ran very hot, they made no noticeable difference in yield or potency and most failed in a matter of 3-6 months. One did blow up during normal use as well. It's been Digilux ever since. I have two flower rooms and one had Hort eyes last year and there was never a noticeable dif in yield or potency compared to digiluxs. 
I think debating these different brands and types of lights is about the same as debating actual light schedules, there are only one or two right ways to do it.


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## zack66 (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm running 2 shitty Lumatek ballasts right now. I thought they were okay. Only a year or two old. Guess my bulb isn't working to it's true potential according to Sunpulse. I won't be buying the 10k. I am thinking about running a 600 mh with another 600 hps. Sounds like the best of both worlds.


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## polyarcturus (Feb 12, 2013)

whats most fucked up thing, is that everything he said could apply to any lightbulb in the world.


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## jojodancer10 (Feb 13, 2013)

What is a cmh bulb?


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## Kite High (Feb 13, 2013)

jojodancer10 said:


> What is a cmh bulb?









http://advancedtechlighting.com/


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## althor (Feb 15, 2013)

I have experience with all three. All MH grow, all HPS grow, MH veg/hps flowering. I use enhanced spectrum bulbs though both MH and HPS. My best grows (not even close) have been MH veg/HPS flowering.

NOTE* My full MH grows were close to 20 years ago. Maybe modern technology makes full MH grows better than 20 years ago technology.


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## carl.burnette (Apr 11, 2013)

I just realized I had budded the past 8 weeks using a MH bulb. 2 came with the light kit & I got the HPS & MH mixed up. I noticed my yield is not where it would have been using the HPS bulb.

I just started 2 plants using the MH bulb & will switch to the HPS for the budding as prescribed by past experiences. 

I have read others get good results with MH bulbs for the complete grow, but my experience has been crap. I wonder if its a different TYPE of MH bulb? I assume they would all be the same temp of light.. I dont know the brand of bulbs I got with the lights. Its was the cheapest light set I found, there isnt even amy markings on the bulbs themselves other then 400. 

Probably the worst lights you can get  But they work for me (I just grow a couple a year for my own use) 





polyarcturus said:


> face palm.
> 
> 
> anyways MH dont emit UVB coated or not, its all in the galss its made from, the coat is for UVA and protection fabrics from fading and sunpulse never got back to me, so i highly doubt they are using the proper glass to emit UVB so all you can count on them for is some UVA and deep blues which can emulate the effects of UVB.
> ...


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## sk8punk318 (Apr 19, 2013)

The HPS mimics the change of spectrum that the sun gives off as you enter fall. Don't use a MH during flowering that doesn't make sense. Your looking for bud growth, not leaf growth. If you want you can use a full spectrum and that will work better. Go with nature man and switch that shit to HPS.


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## Kite High (Apr 19, 2013)

HPS has hardly any red. ALSO look at the spectrum change of sunlight in the summer to fall. There is a red shift but not to the degree most slide to and still plenty blue. And what of the equatorial varieties? No shift. Full spectrum including UVB is the ticket.


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## carl.burnette (Apr 22, 2013)

I'd have to dissagree on the HPS has hardly any red. Fark me, when I change the MH bulb from vegging out for the HPS one for budding it makes the room totally pink/red. Now Im not an expert & I have no scale or meter, but Im just talking abuot what I see. Looks pretty damn red to me.





Kite High said:


> HPS has hardly any red. ALSO look at the spectrum change of sunlight in the summer to fall. There is a red shift but not to the degree most slide to and still plenty blue. And what of the equatorial varieties? No shift. Full spectrum including UVB is the ticket.


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## Kite High (Apr 22, 2013)

carl.burnette said:


> I'd have to dissagree on the HPS has hardly any red. Fark me, when I change the MH bulb from vegging out for the HPS one for budding it makes the room totally pink/red. Now Im not an expert & I have no scale or meter, but Im just talking abuot what I see. Looks pretty damn red to me.


Have a look then sir






As you can see hps has lotsa yellow and orange but not much red...the mh you are using is mostly red absent and if you truly look at the hps you realize that it is yellow orange that you see


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## lokster420 (Apr 23, 2013)

if i have a 400w industrial mh do they cost more to run as the ones in hydroponics stores are is it all the same because they are both 400w


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## Kite High (Apr 23, 2013)

lokster420 said:


> if i have a 400w industrial mh do they cost more to run as the ones in hydroponics stores are is it all the same because they are both 400w


same thing


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## Sparty82 (Apr 25, 2013)

Kite High said:


> I do not place much faith in mr. Rosenthal as he is a marketing piuppet that is paid to feed misinformation to increase sales for the chosen few as well as he is a good author and marketer and in my experience flat out lies if it pays well
> 
> Hope this helps


I too am starting to come to the same conclusion about Mr Rosenthal. For that matter any cannabis "expert" and the books they publish seem to be pushing their own agenda.

If you read many of these books you'll find that that the authors often times will disagree with themselves from one chapter to the next. In one chapter something is good and then in a latter chapter the same thing is not so good! Makes me wonder if they even have an editor that reviews their writing. (jorge cervantes is the worst!!)

If you're reading this thread then you know the truth, nothing beats knowing _your_ environment/genetics and doing your own tests, developing your own grow style and trusting in your own observations.


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