# Super Cropping vs SCROG vs Topping vs LolliPopping



## Mathew Harrison (Jun 30, 2014)

Just looking for a bit of guidance from you growers.

First of all can you combine all of these Advanced steps into one Cannabis plant (Super Cropping + SCROG + Topping + Lollipopping)
Also SCROG and Super Cropping seem very similar.

Could you let me know which you could combine for best yields.


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## Sativied (Jun 30, 2014)

I would go for Super Cropping + SCROG + Topping + Lollipopping + LST +Topping again, twice.


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## Mathew Harrison (Jun 30, 2014)

Sativied said:


> I would go for Super Cropping + SCROG + Topping + Lollipopping + LST +Topping again, twice.


That sounds like the yield would be good. Now Topping Twice after the first time or just twice in general? Ill likely test this out.Now would this work well with Aeroponics system?


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## Sativied (Jun 30, 2014)

Ok, seriously the point was that combining all those techniques is overdoing it.

If you use a scrog for example, you don't need to super crop, just bind the branches to the scrog net. And for example if you start cropping or LST early, you don't need to top and certainly not lollipop.

The point of all (except lollipop) is canopy control, to try to get an even field of buds. Combining all of them makes no sense.

Personally I top first (leaving roughly 8 side branches) then tie those down a bit to spread the plant out (sort like LST) and then crop it to spread out the budsites.

Whether it's aeroponics or not is not so relevant, although using a scrog net creates the downside of not being able to lift the plants out of the system to check the roots.


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## Mathew Harrison (Jun 30, 2014)

Sativied said:


> Ok, seriously the point was that combining all those techniques is overdoing it.
> 
> If you use a scrog for example, you don't need to super crop, just bind the branches to the scrog net. And for example if you start cropping or LST early, you don't need to top and certainly not lollipop.
> 
> ...


 thanks very much. I assumed it would be overdoing it. Just was waiting for an experienced member to let me,know.
ill likely supercrop instead of scrog,since Aero. Im still,unsure if topping or,lillipopping would,be best for yeild as well as in my aero,system. Let me,know again thanks


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## Shwagbag (Jun 30, 2014)

I do it all, using whatever technique provides the best overall canopy for my needs at the time. I'm a perpetual grower using mostly clones, so I don't really scrog because its not feasible for me. I certainly do everything else whenever each deems necessary.

Check out the supercropping link in my sig for a few pages of pics and notes.


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## Uncle Ben (Jul 1, 2014)

Sativied said:


> Ok, seriously the point was that combining all those techniques is overdoing it.
> The point of all (except lollipop) is canopy control, to try to get an even field of buds. Combining all of them makes no sense.


It does because it's advanced.


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## Scrogmonkey (Jul 1, 2014)

A big factor in all of this,is what strain you are using,some strains are more suitable than others for all of the techniques stated above.
You would do well to find one that suits them all


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## Mathew Harrison (Jul 1, 2014)

Thanks all. Im well into deciding on if I should do it all ( maybe exclude scrog) but super crop, top, lollipop for best canopy


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## Smokebomb420 (Jul 1, 2014)

Scrogs will get u most bud sites and even ones too.
I'm gonna start mini scrog soon.

Super cropping is great too but sometimes causes too much stress and takes a while to recover.

Topping, everyone tops and uses it almost in every situation. Only in small pot sog it is not used.

Lollipop, I never saw the use for all the defoiling. I'd say just pick off dead and old leaves.

I used to super crop branches that were 2 feet long with 12-15 nodes and I would get something like 10 new shoots out of one branch... Then I started scrogging...


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## Mathew Harrison (Jul 1, 2014)

Smokebomb420 said:


> Scrogs will get u most bud sites and even ones too.
> I'm gonna start mini scrog soon.
> 
> Super cropping is great too but sometimes causes too much stress and takes a while to recover.
> ...


So scrog and topping is the way to go. Thanks. sounds like best choice


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## Smokebomb420 (Jul 1, 2014)

I'll drop a link give me a sec




19 minutes and 50 seconds u can see how much he topped


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## Mathew Harrison (Jul 1, 2014)

thanks ill take a look


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## Merlin34 (Jul 3, 2014)

I top and top and top.... I end up with lollypopped plants that are flat like scrog but 3-4 feet tall and sometimes 3 feet wide with no support so I can move them around.

Sent from Northern Colorado.


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## ayr0n (Jul 4, 2014)

Mathew Harrison said:


> So scrog and topping is the way to go. Thanks. sounds like best choice





Mathew Harrison said:


> Thanks all. Im well into deciding on if I should do it all ( maybe exclude scrog) but super crop, top, lollipop for best canopy





Mathew Harrison said:


> thanks very much. I assumed it would be overdoing it. Just was waiting for an experienced member to let me,know.
> ill likely supercrop instead of scrog,since Aero. Im still,unsure if topping or,lillipopping would,be best for yeild as well as in my aero,system. Let me,know again thanks


I think it'd help to start with a stronger understanding of what those methods actually are.

Think about this - you could take acid, meth, crack, shrooms, and heroine all at once but at a certain point you'd just be Fucked up n wouldn't know which one cause the strongest effect...if u try all the training methods at once how will you know what actually produced a bigger yield? Try one at a time with all other conditions the same n then decide what works best for you.

Once you know what is actually happening when you apply these techniques then you can mix things up, realize what methods complement each other n you won't be just doing a generalized "super cropping" or "topping" or whatever but rather simply training and managing your plants to achieve optimal results.


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## burgertime2010 (Jul 6, 2014)

ayr0n said:


> I think it'd help to start with a stronger understanding of what those methods actually are.
> 
> Think about this - you could take acid, meth, crack, shrooms, and heroine all at once but at a certain point you'd just be Fucked up n wouldn't know which one cause the strongest effect...if u try all the training methods at once how will you know what actually produced a bigger yield? Try one at a time with all other conditions the same n then decide what works best for you.
> 
> Once you know what is actually happening when you apply these techniques then you can mix things up, realize what methods complement each other n you won't be just doing a generalized "super cropping" or "topping" or whatever but rather simply training and managing your plants to achieve optimal results.


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## Careerforacityboy (Jul 6, 2014)

Cool thread of technique comparisons here...good read.


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## purplegrower02 (Jul 7, 2014)

I really think you would be better off main lining since it provides even distribution to all 4,8,16,32 tops.


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## Flagg420 (Jul 7, 2014)

mainlining will only work if you have a cola dominant strain, and unless your good, and patient as well, is a bastard to pull off on clones rather than seeds.

Grow is out, top it a few times, then grow it into a screen for a week or two, flip it 12/12, trim anything under the screen after 1.5-2weeks of flower

When you go in @ week 6 flower and see a mini field of colas on that screen, you'll be happy you did it...

(unless you have the means, then go vert, cage the plants, and rotate them many times a day)


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## hydroMD (Jul 7, 2014)

Sativied said:


> Ok, seriously the point was that combining all those techniques is overdoing it.
> 
> If you use a scrog for example, you don't need to super crop, just bind the branches to the scrog net. And for example if you start cropping or LST early, you don't need to top and certainly not lollipop.
> 
> ...



I use all of these techniques with great results. If it provides better results your not overdoing anything.


This is an example of using a bit of each method. This pic was taken after i removed the trellis and insted of suoercropping, i topped the cut a week before i took it from tje mother, then planted it so 3 stems were coming out of hydroton.


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## Sativied (Jul 7, 2014)

You quoted me but are you really sure you want _me_ to respond to _that ^^_


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## chuck estevez (Jul 7, 2014)

Sativied said:


> You quoted me but are you really sure you want _me_ to respond to _that ^^_


oh, I do, I do,lol


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## hydroMD (Jul 7, 2014)

Sativied said:


> You quoted me but are you really sure you want _me_ to respond to _that ^^_


Makes no difference to me...

Not really sure what it is you feel needs a response but if im missing anything shoot.


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## Sativied (Jul 7, 2014)

Ok, you asked for it.  Seriously, I just don't see how I can put this any other way than blunt.



Sativied said:


> Ok, seriously the point was that *combining* all those techniques is overdoing it.....
> 
> *Combining* all of them makes no sense.





hydroMD said:


> *I use all of these techniques* with great results. If it provides better results your not overdoing anything.
> ... *and instead of supercropping*,


So you don't combine all of them. 

All of the mentioned techniques are canopy control techniques. 


Sativied said:


> The point of all (except lollipop) is canopy control, to try to get an even field of buds.


...and make optimal use of the space and light you got.



hydroMD said:


> I use all of these techniques *with great results*.









By the way, where the fuck are your leaves at? 

I've seen you post some decent frosty buds in the sticky, you'd get a whole lot more of that if you would refrain from mutilating your plant. Sure, nice results from one plant, but if you think that picture is a good argument for your point of view, then what you're missing is the point of canopy control.

It's fun to crop and play with the plants, I get that, but combining them all (which again is what I said) is overdoing it simply because it's unnecessary. Tying just a few stretching branches down is not LST. Pinching and bending a few branches after topping or using a scrog is not 'supercropping'. If you do a scrog properly you don't need to LST and don't need to top and don't need to supercrop. If you supercrop properly you don't need to top, LST, scrog. If you LST properly you don't need to top, crop, scrog.


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## hydroMD (Jul 7, 2014)

Lol, You sir are just too worried about being right... in essence i basically do the same as you. Implenting a *light* version of each. 

I LST to train out amd get light to all bud sites, put the trwllis up last week or two of stretch just so the plant has extra support, then bend/pinch bud sights that take up dominance and start to outreach the rest of the canopy.

I agree that fully implementing each tactic is a waste of time, but using a watered down version of each can work out great.

Its all strain dependant when it comes down to it, i was just giving some insight to the question asked on this post. 


And my fan leaves are all off because i took this picture in the process of taking the plant down;which is why the trellis is also not in the pic.

Ill leave the defoliate argument for some other time. I will say that in most cases i prefer leaving fans on, but i do believe there are cases where defoliating is useful


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## hydroMD (Jul 7, 2014)

Sativied said:


> Another great argument
> 
> Accusing the opponent in a debate of wanting to be right is about the dumbest argument one can preset. It implies there are people who just insist on being wrong... I guess you're one of them then. Just because you are "worried" about being wrong doesn't automatically mean I involve emotions like you do (perhaps I should do a post on reflection... psychology 101). You quoted me disagreeing with what I posted while presenting nothing but invalid arguments including presenting that poor plant as 'great results' from combining "each" but then again not some.... (All because you wanted to be right about what you do. Doh...) Of course I point those out, that's how it works in a discussion forum...
> 
> If you want to imagine those are great results from combining all canopy control methods and stripping the leaves, and that using some binding wire to tie down plants is LST, and bending a few branches is supercropping, then dude, have a blast with your advanced growing techniques.


This is what im talking about... You dont have to over analyze everything someone says in order to form an argument about a subject no one was arguing about In the first place. 

Did i not agree with your main point? 

Excuse me for giving my experience as testiment. Your obviously a much much much better grower and anyone with any input that is not your own shoukd just refrainn from posting


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## hydroMD (Jul 7, 2014)

Matthew, here is a picture with trellis. Sorry about the tangents on your thread. To sum up the point i was trying to make for you, every style of training that is mainstream has its uses. Your grow space and environment can dictate which style OR styles will be best. I personally grow single plants that are large in size. They can grow 6"+ a day, so whatever needs to happen to keep things even is what i do. Pulling main shoots out to the edges of the light creating a dish around your hood is a good idea too.


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## Shwagbag (Jul 7, 2014)

I use them all simultaneously, always and forever.


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## IAmTheSun (Jul 7, 2014)

A properly main lined plant has the best looking skeleton after harvest. So cool you will want to keep it. Isn't that all that really matters?


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## turbo dog head (Jul 8, 2014)

Sativied said:


> Ok, you asked for it.  Seriously, I just don't see how I can put this any other way than blunt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Topping does work on a scrog and sometimes needs doing to keep the canopy even.


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## arson420 (Jul 8, 2014)

Do whatever you want just remember that the point of all this is universally the same and thats to grow a even canopy.


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## Silky Shagsalot (Jul 8, 2014)

IAmTheSun said:


> A properly main lined plant has the best looking skeleton after harvest. So cool you will want to keep it. Isn't that all that really matters?


imo, main lining is a huge waste of time. ya, it looks interesting, but i see no real advantage to it...


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## Shwagbag (Jul 8, 2014)

I've mainlined a few, and they were lovely. It definitely makes some nice tops, but it does also help to have the right strains to rock it out. GHB has a very nice topping technique for scrogging in a tutorial (from seed), and of course Uncle Ben will never let you down with his threads.


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## Squidbilly (Jul 8, 2014)

arson420 said:


> Do whatever you want just remember that the point of all this is universally the same and thats to grow a even canopy.


THIS^ I don't see them as being any different, minus the screen in scrog. I LST, supercrop, top, AND lollipop all my branches during veg and first couple weeks of flower to fill in my canopy.


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## IAmTheSun (Jul 10, 2014)

Silky Shagsalot said:


> imo, main lining is a huge waste of time. ya, it looks interesting, but i see no real advantage to it...


Wasnt saying there was an advantage just think it looks cool. Personally, I believe sea of green is the most efficient way to grow. Just for the record, all these techniques we are discussing can be used to create an even canopy (with the exception of lolloping) but that is not the only reason people use or combine these techniques.


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## 941mick (Jul 10, 2014)

I top once, trellis, and lollypop. Check out my journal to see how it affects the canopy. LST imo is unnecessary in a scrog grow.


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## MidnightToter (Jul 11, 2014)

I do it all, and have had good success. I hear it referred to as Monster cropping or some call it HHT after Hygro Hybred who made it popular on Youtube. These are five weeks in flower


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## ArCaned (Jul 12, 2014)

My 2 Cents!

I LST small plants as they are least able to cope with the stress of FIM/TOP/HST methods.

Once you have 6-8 even tips then I FIM every tip resulting in 18-30~ tops.

I believe this method generates a useful increase in nodal volume while stressing the plant as little as possible.


Now ofc there are many methods to redistribute the growth hormone in the plant, each with their advantages and disadvantages.


The trick for any and every grower is to find the method(s) that work best for you and to perfect them.


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## OGkushNC (Jul 17, 2014)

Im trying to get in to scroging but I just can't seem to get that hang of it so I stick to LSTing my plants and it works but I really like the look of scrog plants.


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## Samcro4 (Sep 6, 2014)

Merlin34 said:


> I top and top and top.... I end up with lollypopped plants that are flat like scrog but 3-4 feet tall and sometimes 3 feet wide with no support so I can move them around.
> 
> Sent from Northern Colorado.


That is an awesome looking plant, bro. I'm a noob. Have just been leaving the girls natural before I gave some of these techniques a shot. I've super cropped by mistake, and it did not work at all. My girls don't like it. They shrivel and die above the bend. So it essentially becomes topping. I've sort of LST'd but not really. Mostly using string to bring in branches that are falling over from too much weight of the cola. 

Anyway, I have clones. Using hydro drip system. Have been a pretty bad parent just from making noob mistakes. But I average almost 10.5 oz per girl. They all look like shit compared to the works of art you guys do. I'm wondering if I should just stick with the natural growth I've got going or try some LST or legit topping. Can't top for multiple colas w clones, right? Did I get lucky w my strain and that's why they are doing well? Cause I can honestly say I've fucked up alot. I've gotten my environment much more dialed in, and have been religious about feeding. (Had no idea how quickly they drink during last few weeks of flower). But I look at what you guys are doing and I am intimidated. Feel like I wouldn't have the skill. 

Seems as if all you vets have some great techniques down. I want to increase my yield. But from what I've read, 10.5 per plant is really good. So does that mean going natural might be the best way for my girls? Or should I try a technique? You vets all seem to agree you have to use one advanced technique if not multiple techniques to get max yield. So I'd like to start out trying on a girl or two. Just in case I fuck up, don't want to destroy them all. LST and topping seems to be the easiest methods for a noob. I'm not sure how bushy I want to go though. Will probably reduce the amount of buckets I can get under each light. 

If you were to give a noob advice about 1 technique to try for the first time, which technique would you guys suggest. And keep in mind supercropping doesn't work for my girls. 

Thanks guys. I figure I'd try 1 technique at a time. Also, have no interest in scrog. I appreciate any help you can give.


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## Don Geno (Sep 10, 2014)

Super Cropping vs SCROG vs Topping vs LolliPopping in flowering is what id like to know many people have different opinions on this subject as well


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## xxMissxx (Sep 10, 2014)

I topped and topped and topped and topped my outdoor ladies this season... but NEXT season I will MAINLINE my ladies and THEN top and top and top and top!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (plus I'm gunna do SuperRooting! Stretch Seedlings Bury the Stretch! When the plant has 3 nodes top and strip lower nodes and bury those nodes! its gunna be awesome!)


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## Don Geno (Sep 11, 2014)

xxMissxx said:


> I topped and topped and topped and topped my outdoor ladies this season... but NEXT season I will MAINLINE my ladies and THEN top and top and top and top!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (plus I'm gunna do SuperRooting! Stretch Seedlings Bury the Stretch! When the plant has 3 nodes top and strip lower nodes and bury those nodes! its gunna be awesome!)



That sounds like a good ol ' time  please post the results and keep me posted for that? do you use any other techniques during flower?


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## xxMissxx (Sep 12, 2014)

Don Geno said:


> That sounds like a good ol ' time  please post the results and keep me posted for that? do you use any other techniques during flower?


I have snip snipped lower branches and I pluck off all the leaves that are yellowing and all the ones that seem redundant other than that I am quite reluctant to touch the ladies once they have started flowering! I don't wanna upset them when they are FINALLY BUSY giving me what I HAVE been IMPATIENTLY waiting for


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## akhiymjames (Sep 12, 2014)

MidnightToter said:


> I do it all, and have had good success.View attachment 3200773 I hear it referred to as Monster cropping or some call it HHT after Hygro Hybred who made it popular on Youtube. These are five weeks in flower


Monster cropping is taking a clone off of a flowering plant, getting it to reveg thus creating a while bunch of branches coming from the clone.


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