# When Prop19 Passes...



## mipbar (Oct 25, 2010)

What kind of unstoppable commerce juggernaut will occur?

The feds, who currently have zero control over MJ as it is, will have no recourse but to give in the fight.

What else?


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## beardo (Oct 25, 2010)

prop 19 won't pass to many flaws with it people are starting to see it for what it is despite the misleading media covrage of the vote to 'legalize marijuana'


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## mipbar (Oct 25, 2010)

Remaining states will ultimately follow suit, who's the first? Oregon? Colorado?


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## mipbar (Oct 25, 2010)

Millions of dollars flooding back to Mexico for MJ will see a decline


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## desert dude (Oct 25, 2010)

The feds will initially increase DEA enforcement in CA, but it will peter out as they don't thave the resources to enforce their vision on the states. Increased pressure on the feds will make them rethink MJ's schedule 1 listing, eventually dropping to schedule 2. Other states will see the light. The snowball grows... Full repeal of MJ prohibition...


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## NoobgrowerLbc (Oct 25, 2010)

The feds cant do nothing if local law enforcement are enforcing local laws, all the feds and obama can do is cut federal spending to schools,roads and other stuff that cali relies on. They are actually a large number of cops supporting prop 19 for various reasons. A majority of black cops support it becuase it eliminate weed accusations from cops that target blacks citizens. Judges support it becuase they are tired of throwing peaceful poeple behind bars, the cops who are against it is of course the feds border patrol,customs,fbi and dea but local law enforcement cops and sherriffs supports it so will be hard for the feds to convict us all if prop 19 passes unless they mass relocate federal agents and waste countless hour and overtime pay just to keep cali on lock.


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## ford442 (Oct 25, 2010)

how about Attitude style seed banks popping up for us to use..? 
i was thinking that a lot of people who will want to grow will have zero knowledge and they will need supplies of all kinds - books, lights, entire kits with helpful guides and accessories.. i imagine there will be garden supply stores who cater exclusively to pot growers.. people will hire gardeners and clippers etc.. new lines of nutrients just for weed.. lots of things on the growing side.. 
on the purely commercial side we will certainly see entertainment venues opening up weed counters - i imagine that most large casinos will adopt it - some theaters perhaps - of course the a-dam style coffee houses - and all of these places will charge 'we've got you where we want you' style prices just like $8 beers at Iron Maiden... a lot of bars may buy a weed license.. head shops that already sell bongs etc will benefit big time..
i sometimes wonder if pot could be used during long flights or on trains or boats? it would pass time and give an anti-nausea effect...

there really are a ton of commercial venues for pot besides just the dried product - how about pot motif clothing and decor? pot plants used as decorative landscaping? the list is huge.. and we haven't even gotten into hemp uses and marketing..


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## Serapis (Oct 25, 2010)

beardo said:


> prop 19 won't pass to many flaws with it people are starting to see it for what it is despite the misleading media covrage of the vote to 'legalize marijuana'


thanks for your spin on it....

I'm not sure what else you would call legal gardens, legal smoke and legal possession?

You are just another grower probably profiting off of 215 and don't want any competition.

Is that the right "spin"?


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## NoobgrowerLbc (Oct 25, 2010)

Hahahaha wow got punked haha 215 poeple, only edge they have when 19 comes through is thier meds are tax free. But growing wise no edge.


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## mipbar (Oct 25, 2010)

ford442 said:


> how about Attitude style seed banks popping up for us to use..?


Exactly! I was thinking along the same lines, something like

Headshops will be online again in the US (shipping only to CA of course)
Seed shops will be online again in the US (shipping only to CA of course, which will be interesting to see the Marc Emery drama)

And like you said, that's just the beginning of the 'movement' especially hemp, and other commercial prospects


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## beardo (Oct 25, 2010)

beardo said:


> prop 19 won't pass to many flaws with it people are starting to see it for what it is despite the misleading media covrage of the vote to 'legalize marijuana'





Serapis said:


> thanks for your spin on it....
> 
> I'm not sure what else you would call legal gardens, legal smoke and legal possession?
> 
> ...


In that case by your own logic I guess CA allready has Legalized marijuana-no need for 19. You must be another non C.A. resident with lots of opinions but little understanding of the facts-I bet my assumptions of you are a lot closer to the truth than yours of me


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## Serapis (Oct 25, 2010)

beardo said:


> In that case by your own logic I guess CA allready has Legalized marijuana-no need for 19


Incorrect, 215 only covers "Seriously Ill Californians"

I hardly call that legalization for everyone.


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## mipbar (Oct 25, 2010)

Here's one:

Independent growers, selling to children, at high prices, sitting around in their undies all day, making more money than most hard-working Americans, on the side of the Feds, and do NOT want legalization, will be OUT OF BUSINESS.


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## beardo (Oct 25, 2010)

Serapis said:


> Incorrect, 215 only covers "Seriously Ill Californians"
> 
> I hardly call that legalization for everyone.


 prop 19 doesn't allow for marijuana for everyone either- 215 will cover you if you are an adult and feel like marijuana would improve your life and you talk to a doctor


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## Serapis (Oct 25, 2010)

Prop 19 allows for the consumption for ANYONE 21 or older. Are you advocating that minors should be included in 19 to gain your favor?

215 covers you if YOUR doctor feels marijuana would benefit you.... It even defines that Dr as your regular caregiver, yet many Californians have gone to "pain" clinics that do nothing BUT issue 215 documents..... This doesn't equall legalization....

You guys may feel like marijuana has been legalized, but it has not been. possession of an ounce is still a crime with a fine. Growing is still a crime with jail time. Prop 19 takes care of that, regardless of your spinnage....


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## beardo (Oct 25, 2010)

I believe if an 18 year old is old enough to kill or be killed in the military then they are old enough to smoke a joint if that is what they want to do. I did not say marijuana has been legalized you stated legal smoke posession and gardens would =legalization under 19 because I pointed out that 19 doesnt legalize marijuana= by your own critera we have allready atained legalization. 19 doeasn't legalize and we have legal smoke for those who need it


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## mipbar (Oct 25, 2010)

Quality overall will go up since the science of weed will become more commercially professional. Although, then it will probably be made 'unhealthy' in some chemical way by the pharm companies and the free-market.


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## vradd (Oct 25, 2010)

u guys are dumb. in order for the DEA and feds to come in and raid EVERYONE, would cost a rediculous amount of money. not to mention the flood in jail space for all these people. do you really thing they are going to get their hands tied up with no sense drama potheads? this would be the biggest media slap in the face against themselves. not to mention obama already stated pot isnt on the top of HIS agenda. if raids to happen in CA it will still be the big operations and now they might lower their standards and go for the medium operations. and when i say "operations" im just speaking on terms of money flowing. wether its good or bad. remember in the end it will ALWAYS be about money in terms of govt action. .....heres what I think will happen..

after it gets voted yes, the days following will probably have a flood of people smoking pot, and it'll just be free food for the news to get these victory parties. pot heads will be everywhere. im sure every time someone gets in trouble during this phase will be highly publicizied if somehow "pot" was involved. it sucks but thats how we seem to dumb down our selves and make it easy for media to exploit it.


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## mipbar (Oct 25, 2010)

> after it gets voted yes, the days following will probably have a flood of people smoking pot, and it'll just be free food for the news to get these victory parties. pot heads will be everywhere. im sure every time someone gets in trouble during this phase will be highly publicizied if somehow "pot" was involved. it sucks but thats how we seem to dumb down our selves and make it easy for media to exploit it.


Exactly, GOOD one, when it gets passed, there will be massive WORLDWIDE media coverage, especially since this is the first law of it's kind in the world. Minute details will be under scrutiny. If taxation were to start, and the Feds started cracking down, thus hurting the revenue of the state, what would then happen I wonder.


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## vradd (Oct 25, 2010)

how does holland consider pot? schedule 1 like us?
http://www.amsterdam.info/drugs/
the only thing i cant find info on is if they have an at home use policy...

if we can pull bits from them i know we can make this work as an 'initiative' to something greater.


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## mipbar (Oct 25, 2010)

vradd said:


> how does holland consider pot? schedule 1 like us?
> http://www.amsterdam.info/drugs/
> the only thing i cant find info on is if they have an at home use policy...
> 
> if we can pull bits from them i know we can make this work as an 'initiative' to something greater.


Newsweek just posted a good 'pot' page this morning. This link covers "Countries that come close to Californias marijuana legalizing dreams"

http://www.newsweek.com/photo/2010/10/25/countries-that-come-close-to-california-s-marijuana-legalizing-dreams.html


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## desert dude (Oct 25, 2010)

beardo said:


> I believe if an 18 year old is old enough to kill or be killed in the military then they are old enough to smoke a joint if that is what they want to do. I did not say marijuana has been legalized you stated legal smoke posession and gardens would =legalization under 19 because I pointed out that 19 doesnt legalize marijuana= by your own critera we have allready atained legalization. 19 doeasn't legalize and we have legal smoke for those who need it


The problem with making it legal for those under 21 is that would make it unsellable to the voters. If you are holding out for that you will be explaining to your grand kids why pot is still illegal in 2050.

Prop 19 will be decided by the sober population of CA, not by dopers. I think it is going to pass and drag all of you growers into the real world where you have to get real jobs like the rest of us.


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## TokinPodPilot (Oct 25, 2010)

desert dude said:


> The problem with making it legal for those under 21 is that would make it unsellable to the voters. If you are holding out for that you will be explaining to your grand kids why pot is still illegal in 2050.
> 
> Prop 19 will be decided by the sober population of CA, not by dopers. I think it is going to pass and drag all of you growers into the real world where you have to get real jobs like the rest of us.


http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_16408972?IADID=Search-www.insidebayarea.com-www.insidebayarea.com


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## mr.swishas&herb (Oct 25, 2010)

do you all believe that California will be the new Amsterdam if this passes?


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## PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1 (Oct 25, 2010)

desert dude said:


> The problem with making it legal for those under 21 is that would make it unsellable to the voters. If you are holding out for that you will be explaining to your grand kids why pot is still illegal in 2050.
> 
> Prop 19 will be decided by the sober population of CA, not by dopers. I think it is going to pass and drag all of you growers into the real world where you have to get real jobs like the rest of us.


 Oh Than Phillip Morris, RJ,,,and the "Big bussiness" will sell you the Real Kind They are a hard working corparation don't you know


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## mipbar (Oct 25, 2010)

Price will go down, but probably not by too much. Profits/Taxes will be funding schools, building roads, maintaining parks instead of funding your local douche-bag grower's lifestyle or Mexico's war


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## TokinPodPilot (Oct 25, 2010)

mipbar said:


> Price will go down, but probably not by too much. Profits/Taxes will be funding schools, building roads, maintaining parks instead of funding your local douche-bag grower or Mexico


This is a common lie for proponents. Taxes, fees and assessments go to regulation and enforcement of the cannabis industry. No schools, no roads, no parks. In fact, by challenging Federal statute, California risks losing funding for roads, schools and public services like parks. Way to not read the bill....


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## veggiegardener (Oct 25, 2010)

mipbar said:


> Price will go down, but probably not by too much. Profits/Taxes will be funding schools, building roads, maintaining parks instead of funding your local douche-bag grower's lifestyle or Mexico's war


LOL!

I doubt it will produce enough revenue to cover the additional legal cost of 500 jurisdictions enforcing their own ordinances.


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## desert dude (Oct 25, 2010)

PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1 said:


> Oh Than Phillip Morris, RJ,,,and the "Big bussiness" will sell you the Real Kind They are a hard working corparation don't you know


Yeah, the big Tobacco Corporations are conspiring with the Devil right now to figure out how they can take over the pot business and evade the federal laws against it.


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## desert dude (Oct 25, 2010)

TokinPodPilot said:


> http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_16408972?IADID=Search-www.insidebayarea.com-www.insidebayarea.com


I have one word for you: Broadus.


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## TokinPodPilot (Oct 25, 2010)

desert dude said:


> Yeah, the big Tobacco Corporations are conspiring with the Devil right now to figure out how they can take over the pot business and evade the federal laws against it.


Depending on whom you've decided to opt in for the part of the Devil, that statement is fairly accurate. Too bad the most profound and accurate statement to ever come from you is an ineffectual attempt at sarcasm.


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## PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1 (Oct 25, 2010)

I read that,,,what is "Broadus."?


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## mr2shim (Oct 25, 2010)

beardo said:


> I believe if an 18 year old is old enough to kill or be killed in the military then they are old enough to smoke a joint if that is what they want to do. I did not say marijuana has been legalized you stated legal smoke posession and gardens would =legalization under 19 because I pointed out that 19 doesnt legalize marijuana= by your own critera we have allready atained legalization. 19 doeasn't legalize and we have legal smoke for those who need it


So I suppose you protest alcohol and casino laws? Or are you just trying to criticize the only "legitimate" thing you can find wrong with p19? It's one of the two. I'm betting it's the latter.

They're basically the same laws as drinking. Except the punishment is a bit more severe. I think it's fair, alcohol should carry even worse penalties. If you oppose the minimum 21 age for cannabis you should be all over alcohol law boards protesting, and writing to your state representatives to lower it to 18. Something tells me you don't do that.


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## mipbar (Oct 25, 2010)

Misc detail laws to prevent 'stoned' driving (as opposed to 'drunk' driving) etc will be enacted. That's just an example. The point being, further details will need to be worked out I'm sure and grow with the legislation to make it as safe as possible for all.


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## TokinPodPilot (Oct 25, 2010)

desert dude said:


> I have one word for you: Broadus.


You can use as many words as you like. Broadus is a nifty safety blanket for people to resort to in order to feel like they're winning. This measure would have been a close call even with full cannabis community support. I see numerous reports over the past week indicating that general support for the bill is waning. Maybe if you shake some chicken bones while you chant Broadus, you'll get some results.


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## beardo (Oct 25, 2010)

mr2shim said:


> So I suppose you protest alcohol and casino laws? Or are you just trying to criticize the only "legitimate" thing you can find wrong with p19? It's one of the two. I'm betting it's the latter.


 yes I do have a problem with those also, and I am not the first to have issue with this hyprocracy. you also know that is far from the only problem I can find with 19 as we have been through several of them


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## beardo (Oct 25, 2010)

desert dude said:


> I have one word for you: Broadus.


 Whats Snoop got 2 do with this?


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## mr2shim (Oct 25, 2010)

beardo said:


> yes I do have a problem with those also, and I am not the first to have issue with this hyprocracy. you also know that is far from the only problem I can find with 19 as we have been through several of them


I've seen most of your issues with P19, I can honestly say I don't think any of them are really that valid or good enough to vote no, but it's your choice. Even if it's the wrong one.


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## PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1 (Oct 25, 2010)

I now live in a state that was big and still grows tobacco,,,If you think the "Heads",,,have not debated on the fortune of another crop,,,I really think you'd be mistaken. Money=Influence=The power to change,,,Hell cigs are still legal,,,It's about money in the legalization game and it's not been proven to produce in prop 19 IMO,,,from what I read?,,,I'm for what you are,,,but to make it really happen there needs to be proven income,,,to offset a lot of unhappy entities. JMO.


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## veggiegardener (Oct 25, 2010)

vradd said:


> u guys are dumb. in order for the DEA and feds to come in and raid EVERYONE, would cost a rediculous amount of money. not to mention the flood in jail space for all these people. do you really thing they are going to get their hands tied up with no sense drama potheads? this would be the biggest media slap in the face against themselves. not to mention obama already stated pot isnt on the top of HIS agenda. if raids to happen in CA it will still be the big operations and now they might lower their standards and go for the medium operations. and when i say "operations" im just speaking on terms of money flowing. wether its good or bad. remember in the end it will ALWAYS be about money in terms of govt action. .....heres what I think will happen..
> 
> after it gets voted yes, the days following will probably have a flood of people smoking pot, and it'll just be free food for the news to get these victory parties. pot heads will be everywhere. im sure every time someone gets in trouble during this phase will be highly publicizied if somehow "pot" was involved. it sucks but thats how we seem to dumb down our selves and make it easy for media to exploit it.


A lot of taxes are paid to the IRS each year. Most of it comes back as funding for schools and major infrastructure projects.

There are strings attached, like enforcing Federal Law.

They leave MMJ patients alone, because a jury trial is damn near impossible to win, in California.

Enter P19, and expect some really nasty repercussions.


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## PeachOibleBoiblePeach#1 (Oct 25, 2010)

TokinPodPilot said:


> You can use as many words as you like. Broadus is a nifty safety blanket for people to resort to in order to feel like they're winning. This measure would have been a close call even with full cannabis community support. I see numerous reports over the past week indicating that general support for the bill is waning. Maybe if you shake some chicken bones while you chant Broadus, you'll get some results.


 Thanks I don't live and california,,,so I guess I should just wish you Luck from here on out,,,Broadus,,,It might effect me in time


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## mipbar (Oct 25, 2010)

You know what WILL NOT change? Marijuana won't stop being the #1 crop in CA. Not citrus, not grapes, not avocados, not artichokes


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## mipbar (Oct 25, 2010)

mr.swishas&herb said:


> do you all believe that California will be the new Amsterdam if this passes?


Gooood. It seriously may very well be the new Amsterdam. Can you imagine OAKLAND being loved the world over for it's world-class Cannibis conferences ? Heh. Plane tickets will be a helluva lot cheaper, eh?


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## beardo (Oct 25, 2010)

mipbar said:


> You know what WILL NOT change? Marijuana won't stop being the #1 crop in CA. Not citrus, not grapes, not avocados, not artichokes


 unless they pass 19 and offshore the jobs


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## mipbar (Oct 25, 2010)

Great High Times Article

http://hightimes.com/legal/ht_admin/6760

While most well-informed HIGH TIMES readers can probably cite hundreds of good reasons why cannabis prohibition should end immediately, I&#8217;d like to hone in on what NORML believes are the top six reasons why these long-sought reforms are finally coming about.

*It&#8217;s the Economy, Stupid*
Just as the Great Depression helped end alcohol prohibition, the current crushing economy is causing otherwise prohibition-supportive decision makers to re-examine their fiscal priorities. As a result, economists, editorial boards, columnists, politicians and commentators of all political stripes increasingly support ending the federal government&#8217;s counterproductive prohibition of cannabis.

*Baby Boomers or Baby Bongers?*
Men and women between the ages of 50 and 70 years have taken over the country&#8217;s institutions of government, law, medicine, science, education, media and entertainment. Baby boomers have primary and secondary experience with cannabis that the so-called World War II generation simply doesn&#8217;t possess.

*The Public&#8217;s Acceptance of Medical Cannabis*
The passage of Proposition 215 in 1996 was a genuinely epochal event: California citizens &#8211; who comprise one-eighth the population of the United States &#8211; voted to endorse the medical use of cannabis. This set in motion a domino-like effect that has currently resulted in 14 states (plus the District of Columbia) legalizing patient access to medical cannabis for nearly 90 million Americans.

In states such as California, Colorado, New Mexico and Montana &#8211; and very soon in Rhode Island, New Jersey, Maine and DC &#8211; lawful patients enjoy so-called &#8220;Main Street&#8221; retail access to hundreds of strains of cannabis, &#8220;medibles,&#8221; tinctures, balms and hash products.

*Worldwide Web of Weed*
The Internet has been transformative for cannabis-law reformers, helping us politically organize consumers, disseminate information, debunk prohibition myths and raise money. I&#8217;ve been at NORML so long I pre-date the Internet, and I can tell you from firsthand experience: A busy day at NORML pre-Internet pales in comparison to what&#8217;s being accomplished today.

NORML&#8217;s webpage and podcast attract over 30,000 daily visitors, who download millions of pages weekly in the privacy of their own homes. And there are now over one million &#8220;friends&#8221; within NORML&#8217;s Facebook universe.

Whereas the mainstream media has largely failed cannabis consumers and society as a whole, the Internet provides citizens with ready peer-to-peer communications, unprecedented social networking, and unfiltered information (uncensored by either the government or the corporate media) that empowers and fuels reformers&#8217; modern advocacy efforts.

*Opposition to Cannabis-Law Reform Recedes*
In general, do business, medical, educational or religious communities organize against groups like NORML?

No.

Then who are the supporters of cannabis prohibition? The five pillars of pot prohibition should be familiar by now: Law enforcement; government agencies born of prohibition (i.e., the DEA, NIDA, etc.); the drug makers who&#8217;d have to compete with legal cannabis (tobacco, pharmaceutical and booze companies); government-funded &#8220;parents&#8217; groups&#8221; (i.e., CADCA, NFIA, etc.); and companies that prosper from drug-testing services, private prisons and high-tech drug-trafficking detection devices.

*Prohibition Fatigue?*
Having endured 73 years of unsuccessful cannabis prohibition, a national weariness seems to be setting in. Maybe, just maybe, after 20 million arrests (90 percent for simple possession alone), hundreds of billions in tax dollars wasted or uncollected, children having more access to cannabis than alcohol or tobacco, and the destabilization of America&#8217;s borders &#8211; all basically for naught &#8211; a solid majority of Americans are ready to support legalization.

Currently, in national polling, about 44 percent favor legalizing adult cannabis use. That total is up to 56 percent in California, where people go to the polls this fall to vote on &#8211;and, hopefully, pass &#8211; a legalization initiative.

Are you and your friends ready to get involved, make a difference, and help end cannabis prohibition once and for all? Please join NORML today and/or support California&#8217;s Proposition 19.

_Allen St. Pierre is the executive director of NORML in Washington, DC. You can contact him at 888-67-NORML or norml.org._

*This article is featured in the SEPTEMBER 2010 Issue of HIGH TIMES:*


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## Burger Boss (Oct 25, 2010)

beardo said:


> I believe if an 18 year old is old enough to kill or be killed in the military then they are old enough to smoke a joint if that is what they want to do. I did not say marijuana has been legalized you stated legal smoke posession and gardens would =legalization under 19 because I pointed out that 19 doesnt legalize marijuana= by your own critera we have allready atained legalization. 19 doeasn't legalize and we have legal smoke for those who need it


0/20 Y.O.'s may NOT consume alcohol in CA. WHY should cannabis be DIFFERENT?


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## beardo (Oct 25, 2010)

Burger Boss said:


> 0/20 Y.O.'s may NOT consume alcohol in CA. WHY should cannabis be DIFFERENT?


 It shouldn't -see post #36


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## mccumcumber (Oct 25, 2010)

> unless they pass 19 and offshore the jobs


How do you suppose they will pull this one off? It's not like weed is legal in China or any other South Pacific Asian country that we use for offshore labor.


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## abudsmoker (Oct 25, 2010)

lol my joint says made in china wtf????????????


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## gupp (Oct 26, 2010)

It's going to pass


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## deprave (Oct 26, 2010)

On Nov 3 when prop 19 passes lou dobbs will spark one up on his show and continue to blaze throughout the show, Americans will learn that he is always blazed during his show, but now, since he can do it live on the set there is going to be less commercials.


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## desert dude (Oct 26, 2010)

beardo said:


> unless they pass 19 and offshore the jobs



Ha ha ha ha... Priceless!


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## veggiegardener (Oct 26, 2010)

If P19 passes, it probably won't be fun, but it will be entertaining!


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## desert dude (Oct 26, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> A lot of taxes are paid to the IRS each year. Most of it comes back as funding for schools and major infrastructure projects.
> 
> There are strings attached, like enforcing Federal Law.
> 
> ...


Yeah, nasty, like jury trials become even more difficult to win for the prohibitionists.


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## veggiegardener (Oct 26, 2010)

desert dude said:


> Yeah, nasty, like jury trials become even more difficult to win for the prohibitionists.


You claim to be in your 50's?

I guess you don't know much about California's corrupt legal system.

Steve Cooley will bring you up to speed, if elected.


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## beardo (Oct 26, 2010)

mccumcumber said:


> How do you suppose they will pull this one off? It's not like weed is legal in China or any other South Pacific Asian country that we use for offshore labor.


 Mexico? china? India? do you really think it is impossible? or even far from likely? I believe it would probably happen within the first couple years of 19 passing a few operations remain here-for P.R. and to maintain quality controll and many open in mexico or china allows a few production facilities to supply international-prop19-demand. U.S. labor costs are high our land is expensive our permit and regulation system is prohibitive and with cap and trade on the horizon we may become far less competitive. the people behind this want to make money and one way to do it would to be offshoring the states #1 crop


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## hazorazo (Oct 26, 2010)

The fear I have about it is this...... will corporate America bust into what is largely a mom and pop operation? Will corporations (which are made to increase profit margins for investors) end up pushing out the mom and pops by creating the cheapest, low price option? Will all of the corporations stop paying trimmers, etc 15-20 dollars an hour, and start paying them minimum wage, because they have no respect or knowledge of how valuable a good trimmer is? Will they take this industry in which a ton of love is incorporated, and turn it into an investor's money machine?

I would like to see marijuana legalized, but CONTROLLED. Controlled in the sense that any ONE company cannot grow over 24 plants. That way, corporations would be limited in their operations, and kept to a decent size, so as not to monopolize the system eventually.

Can anyone honestly say that each grower with 24 plants can make a good living? And spread the love. If we need more weed, let more growers get involved, instead of one grower getting rich. Get back to a societal way of living. We can make this good for EVERYONE if we put our minds to it.

I am scared of corporations because they take the passion out of what they do, and replace it with greed, and a push for numbers.


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## veggiegardener (Oct 26, 2010)

The Central Valley in California is the finest location to grow Cannabis, on this planet. A long growing season, coupled with high temperatures and low humidity in the Fall make duplicating its growing conditions, difficult.

There may be places in Southern China that can match it.

Personally, I'd prefer Morocco, in North Africa. I wonder what third world countries go for, these days?


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## beardo (Oct 26, 2010)

hazorazo said:


> The fear I have about it is this...... will corporate America bust into what is largely a mom and pop operation? Will corporations (which are made to increase profit margins for investors) end up pushing out the mom and pops by creating the cheapest, low price option? Will all of the corporations stop paying trimmers, etc 15-20 dollars an hour, and start paying them minimum wage, because they have no respect or knowledge of how valuable a good trimmer is? Will they take this industry in which a ton of love is incorporated, and turn it into an investor's money machine?
> 
> I would like to see marijuana legalized, but CONTROLLED. Controlled in the sense that any ONE company cannot grow over 24 plants. That way, corporations would be limited in their operations, and kept to a decent size, so as not to monopolize the system eventually.
> 
> ...


I have the same fears and actually like your solution of limiting the potential for huge companies to take over the industry. Your idea would make it so a coffe shop could have their own strain and their own grower and offer joints etc but you wouldn't have weed corp paying illegals to work in huge feilds or wharehouses


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## veggiegardener (Oct 26, 2010)

hazorazo said:


> The fear I have about it is this...... will corporate America bust into what is largely a mom and pop operation? Will corporations (which are made to increase profit margins for investors) end up pushing out the mom and pops by creating the cheapest, low price option? Will all of the corporations stop paying trimmers, etc 15-20 dollars an hour, and start paying them minimum wage, because they have no respect or knowledge of how valuable a good trimmer is? Will they take this industry in which a ton of love is incorporated, and turn it into an investor's money machine?
> 
> I would like to see marijuana legalized, but CONTROLLED. Controlled in the sense that any ONE company cannot grow over 24 plants. That way, corporations would be limited in their operations, and kept to a decent size, so as not to monopolize the system eventually.
> 
> ...


I think Monsanto is poised to get involved.

They've made a ton manipulating crops that sell for pennies a pound(corn and soy beans, among others). I can't imagine they won't try to take over Cannabis genetics and production, whose value will be in the thousands of dollars per pound.

My seed collection has been independent of recent genetics for a decade, with a few very special exceptions. This could be very important if Monsanto begins to patent Cannabis genetics, as they have food crops.


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## beardo (Oct 26, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> I think Monsanto is poised to get involved.
> 
> They've made a ton manipulating crops that sell for pennies a pound(corn and soy beans, among others). I can't imagine they won't try to take over Cannabis genetics and production, whose value will be in the thousands of dollars per pound.
> 
> My seed collection has been independent of recent genetics for a decade, with a few very special exceptions. This could be very important if Monsanto begins to patent Cannabis genetics, as they have food crops.


they will make seed that can not reproduce so you have to buy seed from them and they will patent genetics so anything crossed with their genetics belongs to them


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## veggiegardener (Oct 26, 2010)

beardo said:


> they will make seed that can not reproduce so you have to buy seed from them and they will patent genetics so anything crossed with their genetics belongs to them


They won that case against a farmer that saved his own seed.

Monsanto's pollen infected his fields, making his seed Monsanto's property.

Fucked up, but who said our legal system can't be bought?


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## vradd (Oct 26, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> Fucked up, but who said our legal system can't be bought?


EXACTLY. so why not vote yes, get this thing passed and see how 'they' make the next move. for every action theirs a reaction. lets pass this. so they can re nig on something and ban it so that way next time our chance comes we'll be ready and more prepared.


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## potroast (Oct 26, 2010)

veggiegardener said:


> I think Monsanto is poised to get involved.
> 
> They've made a ton manipulating crops that sell for pennies a pound(corn and soy beans, among others). I can't imagine they won't try to take over Cannabis genetics and production, whose value will be in the thousands of dollars per pound.
> 
> My seed collection has been independent of recent genetics for a decade, with a few very special exceptions. This could be very important if Monsanto begins to patent Cannabis genetics, as they have food crops.



Pure bullshit! ANY national corporation will NOT be able to do anything in the cannabis market until it is changed at the federal level, at least rescheduled, and probably legalized. We could have legalization laws in half of the states, and if it hasn't been changed by the fed, the national corps will not get involved.

Figure it out, Prop 19 passing will be the *biggest thing* on the planet for ending drug prohibition.

I already voted YES.


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## desert dude (Oct 26, 2010)

potroast said:


> Pure bullshit! ANY national corporation will NOT be able to do anything in the cannabis market until it is changed at the federal level, at least rescheduled, and probably legalized. We could have legalization laws in half of the states, and if it hasn't been changed by the fed, the national corps will not get involved.
> 
> Figure it out, Prop 19 passing will be the *biggest thing* on the planet for ending drug prohibition.
> 
> I already voted YES.


Me too. If Monsanto, or RJR can out compete the little growers, so be it.


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## Serapis (Oct 26, 2010)

Vote YES on 19 and make your message loud and clear, end prohibition!


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## desert dude (Oct 26, 2010)

beardo said:


> they will make seed that can not reproduce so you have to buy seed from them and they will patent genetics so anything crossed with their genetics belongs to them


Let's say Monsanto does what you are suggesting. Don't buy their seeds, buy from somebody else. What is the problem?


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## stonedmetalhead1 (Oct 27, 2010)

Tell that to all of the soy bean farmers that don't have jobs anymore.


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## je$ter (Oct 27, 2010)

Why would you want Prop 19 to pass? 
Prices will plummet. California prices are $180oz now to a dispensary, if everyone can grow then supply goes up - demand and price go down. 
I am in a co-op set up (like a farmers market) with dispensaries in CO. $200-$225oz, if a similar amendment passed in CO then a large amount of growers here would stand to lose thousands of dollars they have invested in grow-ops.
I lived in CA for 29 years, I would vote NO ON 19.


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## je$ter (Oct 27, 2010)

.......and before any of you start. Yes I have a real job. Yes I make for than 75k a year. No I do not sit around in my underwear all day or collect any kind of government cheese, nor will I ever. I like money. Money and good quality weed that I grew for me to consume and sell the rest to a dispensary. This way I make money and the dispensary makes money by selling $15-$20 grams, $40-$50 1/8ths.


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## fatfarmer (Oct 27, 2010)

Just able to get MMJ to us in the Dixie State is a pipe dream! We hope for the YES VOTE your way! But we do feel left out. Our rights are not the same! We fear the MAN and the control he will have on us if he gets us.  So please VOTE YES for us to! Have VOTE and TOKE teams and WIN this fight in first round.!!! Together we stand up to the MAN!


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## veggiegardener (Oct 27, 2010)

fatfarmer said:


> Just able to get MMJ to us in the Dixie State is a pipe dream! We hope for the YES VOTE your way! But we do feel left out. Our rights are not the same! We fear the MAN and the control he will have on us if he gets us.  So please VOTE YES for us to! Have VOTE and TOKE teams and WIN this fight in first round.!!! Together we stand up to the MAN!


Do as we did, and get a Medical Marijuana bill on the ballot.

A poll done a few years ago showed that support for Medical Cannabis is over 80% of the voting public.

Even in Dixie, you should get sufficient support for a well crafted bill(Prop 215 with better language regarding limitations).


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## Moldy (Oct 27, 2010)

> Do as we did, and get a Medical marijuana bill on the ballot.
> 
> A poll done a few years ago showed that support for Medical Cannabis is over 80% of the voting public.
> 
> Even in Dixie, you should get sufficient support for a well crafted bill(Prop 215 with better language regarding limitations).


Yeah and that'll take years in the bible belt. Vote yes on prop 19!! It will spread a lot faster than MMJ. Anyway, the medical use laws of cannabis have gotten so restrictive that in a few states you have to be dying or so fucking ill before you qualify it only affects a small portion of the population. Cannabis should be the first drug used to treat ailments as it was 75 years ago.


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## desert dude (Oct 27, 2010)

je$ter said:


> Why would you want Prop 19 to pass?
> Prices will plummet. California prices are $180oz now to a dispensary, if everyone can grow then supply goes up - demand and price go down.
> I am in a co-op set up (like a farmers market) with dispensaries in CO. $200-$225oz, if a similar amendment passed in CO then a large amount of growers here would stand to lose thousands of dollars they have invested in grow-ops.
> I lived in CA for 29 years, I would vote NO ON 19.



All the reasons you cited make me want to vote yes on 19. I want the price to go down. Why should a commodity's price be propped up just to make you richer?


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## je$ter (Oct 27, 2010)

When price goes down so does quality. You want crappy, spider-infested, seedy buds, then vote yes. 
I am glad we have the right to vote. 
I would like to see it remain medicinal only. 
Everyone knows someone they could get weed from illegally. You really think all the weed purchased at dispensaries goes only to medical patients?? 
If you think yes, you are delusional.....and should smoke another bowl.


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## potroast (Oct 27, 2010)

heeheehee, WE are the delusional ones, huh??? 


That was a good one!  


Please vote YES.


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## desert dude (Oct 27, 2010)

je$ter said:


> When price goes down so does quality. You want crappy, spider-infested, seedy buds, then vote yes.
> I am glad we have the right to vote.
> I would like to see it remain medicinal only.
> Everyone knows someone they could get weed from illegally. You really think all the weed purchased at dispensaries goes only to medical patients??
> If you think yes, you are delusional.....and should smoke another bowl.


Fuck you and your illegal profits. Vote yes on 19 and let people grow their own.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 27, 2010)

desert dude said:


> Fuck you and your illegal profits. Vote yes on 19 and let people grow their own.


when it doesn't pass, you all will be calling me for a fat sack. 

lol


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## desert dude (Oct 27, 2010)

fdd2blk said:


> when it doesn't pass, you all will be calling me for a fat sack.
> 
> lol



Probably true, IF it doesn't pass. If it does, you will take a pay cut. I don't smoke it in any case, so it won't affect my wallet either way, but it will be a sad day for America if it fails.


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## fdd2blk (Oct 27, 2010)

i'm raising my prices as well. simply because of all the insults. 

i can afford to pay taxes if it passes, can you afford me is the real question.


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## mccumcumber (Oct 27, 2010)

> I don't smoke it in any case


Why are you on this forum?

You can be pro 19, I am, but you need to understand that everybody on this forum who is voting no, has a reason for voting no. Don't go with the default: "They want to make more money" assumption. This prop has the potential to really piss off the feds, and that could mean hell for 215. I think that is a lot of people's concerns. I personally do not think this will happen, which is why I'm voting yes, but you need to understand that it is possible for negative repercussions to spring out of nowhere because of 19.
Some people don't feel like bud should be taxed. It's a plant for fuck's sake, there should only be one tax on it, and that's sales tax.

For people who live in already weed friendly counties, this prop doesn't do much, and enforces some restrictions that haven't really been enforced since they were created in 2000. 

Some people don't like that the age restriction is 21, which really I feel like won't affect the sales too much, it'll be like alcohol, but they believe jail time will follow if someone over 21 shares a joint with someone under 21. That would really suck ass.

Some people think that cops will be dicks about 215 and only pay attention to 19. Cops are notorious for being assholes, and it is very likely that if you do not bring up the exact citation from the prop that says your exempt, the cop will deny it's existence. However, I have memorized sections 7 and 8, so I'm alright there. 

Those are the four major areas of controversy I've found by talking to the "no on 19 crowd." I used to think that arguing my point was a good idea, but I realized that it is possible for the prop to go either way, I guess I'm being optimistic, while the "no crowd" is being pessimistic. We'll just see what happens come November 3rd. The biggest step has already been made, getting a mj legalization measure on the ballot. It's not like after this one dies (I have a feeling it probably will) there won't be another one that pops up next year. Patience is a virtue, if you want buds to be legal then just keep voting yes whenever you feel like the prop benefits you. The whole point of voting is to benefit yourself, don't get angry at people who vote no because they are benefiting themselves, if you were in their shoes you would do the same.


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## mipbar (Oct 27, 2010)

Ok, so quick summary of possibilities:

Headshops will be online again in the US (shipping only to CA of course)
Seed shops will be online again in the US (shipping only to CA of course)

Remaining states will ultimately follow suit, who's the first? Oregon? Colorado? 

Millions of dollars flooding back to Mexico for MJ will see a decline

The feds, who currently have zero control over MJ as it is, will have no recourse but to give in the fight.

Independent growers, selling to children, at high prices, sitting around in their undies all day, making more money than most hard-working Americans, on the side of the Feds, and do NOT want legalization, will be OUT OF BUSINESS.

Quality overall will go up since the science of weed will become more commercially professional. Although, then it will probably be made 'unhealthy' in some chemical way by the pharm companies and the free-market when it becomes federally legal

There will be massive WORLDWIDE media coverage, especially since this is the first law of it's kind in the world. Minute details will be under scrutiny. If taxation were to start, and the Feds started cracking down, thus hurting the revenue of the state, what would then happen I wonder.

Price will go down, but probably not by too much. Profits/Taxes will be funding schools, building roads, maintaining parks instead of funding your local douche-bag grower's lifestyle or Mexico's war

Misc detail laws to prevent 'stoned' driving (as opposed to 'drunk' driving) etc will be enacted. That's just an example. The point being, further details will need to be worked out I'm sure and grow with the legislation to make it safe for all.

You know what WILL NOT change? Marijuana won't stop being the #1 crop in CA. Not citrus, not grapes, not avocados, not artichokes.

CA may very well be the new Amsterdam. Can you imagine OAKLAND being loved the world over for it's world-class Cannibis conferences ? Heh. Plane tickets will be a helluva lot cheaper, eh? 

Politicians will be 'caught' firing up eventually


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## stonedmetalhead1 (Oct 28, 2010)

mipbar said:


> Ok, so quick summary of possibilities:
> 
> Headshops will be online again in the US (shipping only to CA of course)
> Seed shops will be online again in the US (shipping only to CA of course)


No, head shops operate as tobacco shops and why would seed shops only send to California? It's already illegal all over the country so why would seed shops choose to stop shipping to the states?



> Remaining states will ultimately follow suit, who's the first? Oregon? Colorado?


Hopefully states will follow suite but who knows. 



> Millions of dollars flooding back to Mexico for MJ will see a decline


Not really, until the rest of the country legalizes it. Most of the weed from Mexico doesn't go to California. It mostly gets transported across the country to places that are still hard on pot.



> The feds, who currently have zero control over MJ as it is, will have no recourse but to give in the fight.


Who said they don't have any control now? As long as the federal law remains the feds will always act in the manner they always have. 



> Independent growers, selling to children, at high prices, sitting around in their undies all day, making more money than most hard-working Americans, on the side of the Feds, and do NOT want legalization, will be OUT OF BUSINESS.


Marijuana will continue to be the biggest cash crop regardless, this is one state out of 50. 



> Quality overall will go up since the science of weed will become more commercially professional. Although, then it will probably be made 'unhealthy' in some chemical way by the pharm companies and the free-market when it becomes federally legal


You can't mass produce quality and there will be a market for commercial and connoisseur grade marijuana. Quality will always dictate market price. 



> There will be massive WORLDWIDE media coverage, especially since this is the first law of it's kind in the world. Minute details will be under scrutiny. If taxation were to start, and the Feds started cracking down, thus hurting the revenue of the state, what would then happen I wonder.


While I wish it would get coverage it probably won't to the extent you think it will.

The Feds already crack down. They might put more scrutiny on California but they already put a lot of resources into the state anyway.



> Price will go down, but probably not by too much. Profits/Taxes will be funding schools, building roads, maintaining parks instead of funding your local douche-bag grower's lifestyle or Mexico's war


Some people will be making more money than ever. The select few that get commercial permits will be able to sell for profit. All that this does is funnel the money to a select few that sell commercially giving them control over the marijuana market while giving them more influence.



> Misc detail laws to prevent 'stoned' driving (as opposed to 'drunk' driving) etc will be enacted. That's just an example. The point being, further details will need to be worked out I'm sure and grow with the legislation to make it safe for all.


There is no way that they can test if your high like they test for alcohol with a breathalyser. This will be a mess because they will try to impose some type of law which will probably be unenforceable.



> CA may very well be the new Amsterdam. Can you imagine OAKLAND being loved the world over for it's world-class Cannibis conferences ? Heh. Plane tickets will be a helluva lot cheaper, eh?


That might be an outcome but Oakland won't be the city that gets the rep since they will only allow 4 commercial production facilities and I guarantee they won't be organic.



> Politicians will be 'caught' firing up eventually


They already have and it hasn't changed anything.


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## desert dude (Oct 28, 2010)

je$ter said:


> removed


Yes, really, illegal. Call the DEA and see what they have to say about your business. You are free riding on the backs of tens of thousands of people arrested every year in California. Vote for prop 19 and make it legal in CA. I don't think it will hurt your business at all if 19 passes.


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## mccumcumber (Oct 28, 2010)

If prop19 passes, it will still be the same amount of illegal if you grow and have your 215. The only upside for medical patients is that they won't need a lawyer to get them out of jail anymore if they get busted and are abiding by 19 restrictions. If they are abiding by their 215 restrictions, then they will have to go through the same process they would have had to go through regardless of 19. That's why most 215 holders don't see any incentive to vote for 19, it really doesn't affect them at all. Don't get me wrong I'm pro 19, but that's mostly because I was using my 215 to grow in small areas, and I rarely ever used more than 25 sqft of space.


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## je$ter (Oct 28, 2010)

desert dude said:


> Yes, really, illegal. Call the DEA and see what they have to say about your business. You are free riding on the backs of tens of thousands of people arrested every year in California. Vote for prop 19 and make it legal in CA. I don't think it will hurt your business at all if 19 passes.


desert dude to expand on your comment.
_free ride_ - _n._ _Slang_
Something acquired without the ordinary effort or cost.

In *my* situation, I provide *all* of the effort and cost. Your argument has no merit, wrong again.

Just trimmed some OG Kush Banana

$


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## je$ter (Oct 28, 2010)

oh, and the DEA could care less if Prop 19 passes. Prop 19 is a state issue and has nothing to do with the feds.
Swing and a miss.
Strike 2 desert dude.


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## mccumcumber (Oct 28, 2010)

> Just trimmed some OG Kush Banana


I got five on it!


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## desert dude (Oct 28, 2010)

je$ter said:


> oh, and the DEA could care less if Prop 19 passes. Prop 19 is a state issue and has nothing to do with the feds.
> Swing and a miss.
> Strike 2 desert dude.


You are correct in one respect, and incorrect on the larger issue. 

19 is a state issue, but it has a lot to do with the feds. Without local cops to do the head busting, the feds are defanged. Oh, I am sure they will make a big show of force for a while if 19 passes, but it is unsustainable for them. The even bigger issue for the feds is that a California wide revolt against their drug war will ripple through the rest of the country. It will put the spot light on the useless and damaging nature of Cannabis prohibition. Ultimately, I think it will cause full legalization in the whole country, undoubtedly with a "tax, regulate, and control" nature. That is what the narco-prison complex is really afraid of. I am not expecting it to be a smooth ride to legalization, the entrenched powers have a lot to lose and a lot of power, but the American people are fed up with the mess the country is in and ready to force changes that are good for the country.


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## TreeOfLiberty (Oct 29, 2010)

Fast forward to 2015-2016, what do things look like? California has legalized as well as 20 more states, and 40 states now have MMJ bills. The states that still have nothing are the southern bible thumping states still holding on to the past. Even though Prop.19 isn't perfect, it could bring about a chain re-action with a lot of states bringing in pro-marijuana measures. That is if the U.S. economy doesn't collapse totally first.


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## abudsmoker (Oct 29, 2010)

in 2015 im just getting parole for my possession of 5 grams of pot. Finally moving to a legal state...... i cant wait to see what happens after the polls close and i am not even close to califorina


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## Kindwoman (Oct 30, 2010)

desert dude said:


> The feds will initially increase DEA enforcement in CA, but it will peter out as they don't thave the resources to enforce their vision on the states. Increased pressure on the feds will make them rethink MJ's schedule 1 listing, eventually dropping to schedule 2. Other states will see the light. The snowball grows... Full repeal of MJ prohibition...


That's exactly how I see it also. The rest of the United States is watching us very closely. C'mon California, let's make some positive history for all the generations of tokers to come.


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## CA MMJ (Nov 2, 2010)

If this thing gets legalized tomorrow,



Im posting this thing everywhere!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO3cPyi5_oA


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## je$ter (Nov 3, 2010)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101103/ap_on_el_st_lo/us_marijuana_legalization

sorry boys and girls.


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## mr2shim (Nov 3, 2010)

The idiots have spoken! and they say, no to p19 and hello to Attorney General Cooley. Which in turn will be the end of MMJ. Oh the irony.


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