# First SCROG failed to impress - how to improve?



## philbu (Aug 31, 2014)

I have one grow under the belt. It was successful, but failed to impress. Indoor, SCROG, 4x6 area, veg with T5’s, flower with 2 1000w HPS. Battled modest spider mite invasion and won. Nipped powdery mildew in the bud. No obvious nute lockout, nor burning. Humidity well controlled, got the harvest time correct, dry/cure, no problem. Grow looked good overall. However, due to one, or a combination of factors, the total dry yield was 18 oz. Too many plants for the area (1 or pots too small (3gal), or a few extra- warm days in the room, some light loss in a 4x6 area in a 10x10 room, maybe could have pushed nutes more, I don’t know.

I will have a better handle on those issues, looking for major improvement. Two goals: First, 10 oz per plant. Down the line, 1 lb per plant.

Focusing on the first, is 10 oz per plant in a scrog just a myth or ugly rumor?

If it is possible, how to achieve this goal in the same 4x6 space with the same lights?

Maybe 6 plants in 5 or 7 gal pots? 10 gal pots?

Scrog or LST tie-down style?

I’m going with Green Crack again, it’s Sativa leaning, known to be a good yielder (user error on my part) and fast flowering (true).

I grow mostly for others and would greatly appreciate some advice from experienced growers who get good yields.

Thanks much!

philbu


----------



## Slab (Aug 31, 2014)

How long did the flowering take? I had the early cut, early flower only lasted 15 days. Not Great for Scrog. That is a lot of light, the inventor of the technique used shop lights.


----------



## Slab (Aug 31, 2014)

Yes larger pots for sure.


----------



## philbu (Aug 31, 2014)

Slab said:


> How long did the flowering take? I had the early cut, early flower only lasted 15 days. Not Great for Scrog. That is a lot of light, the inventor of the technique used shop lights.


GC is known for being fast, 49 days and def could have cut them then, but let go to day 53 for trichs to show the way i wanted.
Wow, 15 day flower? Did you figure out why?

thnx!


----------



## philbu (Aug 31, 2014)

Slab said:


> Yes larger pots for sure.


So, that's a factor I'm trying to figure out. Six pots, 5, 7 or 10 gal would all fit in the space. Two things about that,(1) time necessary to veg plants to take full advantage of pot size and (2) would plants get too big for the 4x6 space (height is not an issue).


----------



## ricky6991 (Aug 31, 2014)

Something i have learned over pas 2 years is, more plants dont always equal less veg with same yield as more veg on Less plants.

A 4×4 scrog under 1 1kw in middle of screen will only need one plant. 6-8 week veg time with training and the drop screen on plant for sretch time. Lollipop afterwards. Can get over 1 lb everytime... doesnt feel it but just give 1 or 2 plants the enitre screen until its filled and flip to 12/12

Top plant after 4th branch and Do not supercrop or tie them down. As they grow try to bend them down without snapping or kinking them. Its going to open up middle and make canopy quickly without loosig growth due to stunting.

Picture is 4×4 with 1 plant uder 1light and got 26 z.... obviously more plants in that room but that is the layout


----------



## philbu (Aug 31, 2014)

ricky6991 said:


> Picture is 4×4 with 1 plant uder 1light and got 26 z.... obviously more plants in that room but that is the layout


oof! hmm. really nice there, ricky.



ricky6991 said:


> Something i have learned over pas 2 years is, more plants dont always equal less veg with same yield as more veg on Less plants.


that make sense and worth remembering



ricky6991 said:


> Top plant after 4th branch and Do not supercrop or tie them down. As they grow try to bend them down without snapping or kinking them. Its going to open up middle and make canopy quickly without loosig growth due to stunting.


you only top once?
yeah, i'm good at finesse bending and if i can get away without tying, so much the better.



ricky6991 said:


> A 4×4 scrog under 1 1kw in middle of screen will only need one plant. 6-8 week veg time with training and the drop screen on plant for sretch time. Lollipop afterwards. Can get over 1 lb everytime... doesnt feel it but just give 1 or 2 plants the enitre screen until its filled and flip to 12/12


I don't know whether to do 2 plants in my 4x6 (have 2 1000w) or 4. only reason i wonder about 4 is hedging my bet due to lack of experience. i can tell you're pro and know what you do is possible, tip of the hat. so, i have food for thought...thnx for the response : )

my first grow:


----------



## ricky6991 (Aug 31, 2014)

Cant take responsibility for that pic lol... i learned techniques from local older guy. He gets almost 2 lb each plant off diff strains under 1 light, everytime.

Just passing it along. I have been doing this same method and i can see growth every single day... everytime i bend em down new nodes grow an inch each atleast. Pretty nuts.

14 day growth. Pics do not do them justice... they still have 3-4 weeks veg left. Those are not all for that one room btw lol


----------



## Slab (Sep 1, 2014)

Pre-flower for 15 days total was 41-43
.


----------



## philbu (Sep 1, 2014)

Slab said:


> Pre-flower for 15 days total was 41-43
> .


ah, i see.



ricky6991 said:


> Cant take responsibility for that pic lol... i learned techniques from local older guy. He gets almost 2 lb each plant off diff strains under 1 light, everytime.


wow.



ricky6991 said:


> Just passing it along. I have been doing this same method and i can see growth every single day... everytime i bend em down new nodes grow an inch each atleast. Pretty nuts.


no, very useful, appreciate the info



ricky6991 said:


> 14 day growth. Pics do not do them justice... they still have 3-4 weeks veg left. Those are not all for that one room btw lol


they'd get too big for the room, yes? that's what i need, more space.

so, if you don't mind my asking, what is your basic nute regimen, without giving up any state secrets. : )


----------



## ricky6991 (Sep 1, 2014)

No secret regimen... i use gh nutes. Follow the chart at 3/4 strength. Feed then water and repeat with promix.

Growth has been awesome. Trying to just keep it simple and givr them appropriate training and time.

My room maybe decent size with more lights but the idea us to figure out growth an yeild by a per plant per light basis so you can fine tune your skills and ensure each plant gets full time it needs.

A plant is capable of getting atleasr 1 lb when under 1 light... the way medical industry is going the plantcount will be next to nothing. Gotta practice good technique.


----------



## ricky6991 (Sep 1, 2014)

To answer your question... they get about 4ft before the switch. So yeah those plants for for not just one room. Vegging under 6000w in one room.


----------



## philbu (Sep 1, 2014)

ricky6991 said:


> No secret regimen... i use gh nutes. Follow the chart at 3/4 strength. Feed then water and repeat with promix.


Sorry, "repeat with promix"?



ricky6991 said:


> Growth has been awesome. Trying to just keep it simple and givr them appropriate training and time.


keeping it simple, agree, but GH's feeding schedule shows 6 products plus 2 optional. That's a lot of stuff. I know many of the nute companies suggest a "big three" regimen, like FF's Grow Big, Big Bloom, and Tiger Bloom, which I've been using. But then again, they have a good 8 other products they suggest to add and I don't know if i'm missing out by not using one or all of those extras. yikes...



ricky6991 said:


> My room maybe decent size with more lights but the idea us to figure out growth an yeild by a per plant per light basis so you can fine tune your skills and ensure each plant gets full time it needs.
> A plant is capable of getting atleasr 1 lb when under 1 light... the way medical industry is going the plantcount will be next to nothing. Gotta practice good technique.


all makes sense, thnx


----------



## pineappleman420 (Sep 10, 2014)

2 plants, veg until screen is full in 5 gal pots, you'll get your pound per plant if you do everything else right that is.


----------



## Gquebed (Dec 7, 2014)

philbu said:


> I will have a better handle on those issues, looking for major improvement. Two goals: First, 10 oz per plant. Down the line, 1 lb per plant.
> 
> Focusing on the first, is 10 oz per plant in a scrog just a myth or ugly rumor?
> 
> If it is possible, how to achieve this goal in the same 4x6 space with the same lights?


I used 2X600w and 3 plants in 7 gal pots for my first scrog. I got 28 ounces. That convinced me that I could do 1 plant and 1 light for a pound.

Now I have 2 LEDs (Solar Storm 440) and 2 X600w HID. I'm doing 4 plants in 7 gal buckets. Anything less than a total of 30 ounces will be a disappointment. I'm hoping for 40 zs total this grow and if I can do that then I KNOW I can do 1 lb per light/plant.


----------



## clayawesome (Dec 9, 2014)

U have 2000 watts over a 4'x 6' net? each of those lights should cover 5'x5'. u said its a 10 x 10 room. put the 2 lights in a row over a 5x10 net. plant count doesn't matter. fill the screen and then switch the light cycle. do u have a dehumidifier? ull need to be able to remover about 6 gallons of water from ur air a day. should be getting 2+ lbs per 1000w.
1 gram per watt is 2.2 lbs per light, but now a days we know 2 grams per watt is possible


----------



## Drumfounded (Dec 13, 2014)

I just finished my first grow, not a scrog. I'm setting up my second right now and plan to scrog. I have been very back and forth on more plants, less veg or blah blah blah.
As I said, I haven't scroged yet, so I'm definitely no expert. However, I've done a boat load of research and a lot of what is being said seems to be 5 he general consesus. 
I plan to do something similar to what clay said. I'm running 2 1kws running in line over a 5'x10' screen. 3 gal pots. I planned on doing 8 - 3gal pots in a 2x4 setup. Still not sure about that. Would be interested to see what your plans are and see what others have to say.
By the way, your first grow looked incredible!


----------



## Drumfounded (Dec 13, 2014)

Also hope to get 4lbs. 2 grams per watt? Never seen it, but I hope someday I get the chance


----------



## clayawesome (Dec 13, 2014)

don't get me wrong 1 gram per watt is great! but there are people getting 2 gpw. reach for the stars!


----------



## Gquebed (Dec 26, 2014)

clayawesome said:


> don't get me wrong 1 gram per watt is great! but there are people getting 2 gpw. reach for the stars!


2gpw!!?? I thought 1gpw was the holy gail... i'd like to know how to get 2gpw...how is this done?


----------



## clayawesome (Dec 27, 2014)

http://rollitup.org/t/two-plant-dwc-easy-3-to-4-pounds-with-2kw.840388/
Here is one example well over 1GPW


----------



## Gquebed (Dec 27, 2014)

Meh...dont buy it. I can say im getting 10 gpw and show a couple pics of nice plants too...

Not saying it isnt possible... just saying the that thread seems fishy to me...


----------



## weedenhanced (Dec 29, 2014)

philbu said:


> I have one grow under the belt. It was successful, but failed to impress. Indoor, SCROG, 4x6 area, veg with T5’s, flower with 2 1000w HPS. Battled modest spider mite invasion and won. Nipped powdery mildew in the bud. No obvious nute lockout, nor burning. Humidity well controlled, got the harvest time correct, dry/cure, no problem. Grow looked good overall. However, due to one, or a combination of factors, the total dry yield was 18 oz. Too many plants for the area (1 or pots too small (3gal), or a few extra- warm days in the room, some light loss in a 4x6 area in a 10x10 room, maybe could have pushed nutes more, I don’t know.
> 
> I will have a better handle on those issues, looking for major improvement. Two goals: First, 10 oz per plant. Down the line, 1 lb per plant.
> 
> ...


Ur talking wet weight yeah?


----------



## TBoneJack (Dec 29, 2014)

I use 10-gallon pots for flowering. They produce more bud than my 5-gallon pots, because I'm a Super Soil grower and don't use any added nutes. Just tap water.


----------



## pk_boosted2 (Dec 30, 2014)

Noone has ever gotten 2 gpw.. Heath robinson has the record doing vertical grows and he has gotten 3- 3 1/4 lbs per 1k with some strain you cant even get your hands on, you'd have to look it up to find out what it is i forget the name. But he was getting something like 1.6 gpw and thats debated by many people. Have take his word for it but I believe it was authenticated by a few well known sources out in the UK. 

I believe that he also said that he was getting better results running duel 600's over the 1k bulbs and has since switched over so having a true measurement per bulb isnt specific. 

I think theres a critical hog pheno or a gigabud pheno that claims if you run 5 gal containers at 6 per 1k bulb that you should be able to pull down 3 per light no problem. I got some of this pheno in a pack from TH seeds and G13 Lab a few months ago that i just started and I can let you know if its true in about 3 months lol.

 
These claim to be over 1000 grams per sq meter. So maybe if someone got the perfect system i would say that 1.5 gpw would b achievable but 2 gpw no fuckin way.


----------



## pk_boosted2 (Dec 30, 2014)

1 gpw is still considered to be the gold standard but more and more growers are able to get 2.5 lbs per 1k light nowadays so its not that uncommon as it was 5 years ago. Using dwc like the current culture setups in warehouses its easily obtainable to get 2.5 per light no problem. But home growers with limited space and plants is likely that the 2 lbs per light is what makes u an expert grower. If u get 2 per light u r more than good to go as most growers are lucky to get 1 1/14 to 1 1/2 lbs for the most part.


----------



## Gquebed (Dec 31, 2014)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Noone has ever gotten 2 gpw.. Heath robinson has the record doing vertical grows and he has gotten 3- 3 1/4 lbs per 1k with some strain you cant even get your hands on, you'd have to look it up to find out what it is i forget the name. But he was getting something like 1.6 gpw and thats debated by many people. Have take his word for it but I believe it was authenticated by a few well known sources out in the UK.
> 
> I believe that he also said that he was getting better results running duel 600's over the 1k bulbs and has since switched over so having a true measurement per bulb isnt specific.
> 
> ...


Do you have a grow journal going? Like to follow along....


----------



## TubePot (Dec 31, 2014)

clayawesome said:


> don't get me wrong 1 gram per watt is great! but there are people getting 2 gpw. reach for the stars!


I would find a diff strain if I were you.
I was pulling 4 plus pounds with 2-1000 HPS(rockwool) form start to finish and my room was smaller than yours..... Didn't matter if I had 48 plants or 24, still pulled the same give or take a few z's. But the bud was better with less plants and less work too.
Believe it or not.... Good luck.


----------



## RM3 (Dec 31, 2014)

unwine99 said:


> I think 2 grams per watt under the 1000 would be 4.4lbs but I'm terrible at math.


2.25 lbs = 1020.5 grams


----------



## unwine99 (Dec 31, 2014)

RM3 said:


> 2.25 lbs = 1020.5 grams


That would be 1.02 GPW I think. 2 gram per watt would be 2000 grams or 4.4 lbs


----------



## pk_boosted2 (Dec 31, 2014)

Gquebed said:


> Do you have a grow journal going? Like to follow along....


Hey bud, wsp nah i dont have a grow journal i post pics here and there throughout some runs if ppl wanna see them. 

Im actually switching up all my strains right now and trying few new things out. I primarily ran AN and Canna for past 5 years, but lately all patients and dispensaries I grow for want me to focus strictly on Organics/Veganics. So I actually just got some GH General Organics line up, and im gonna make my own soil mix primarily Sunshine #4, worm castings and small amount of Ancient Forest humus. 

My boy actually just got the head growing job down in Connecticut and he has been using the GO strictly at the facility on East Coast Sour Dzl, Bubba X Cheese and Pineapple Fields and has been getting very good results both quality and yield. I was actually very impressed with the output considering running Organics you have to compensate yield for quality (but he told me he has been averaging just around 2 lbs per 1000w light). So Im gonna jump on board and try it out considering the price point compared to Bio-Canna is alot less expensive and I trust this dudes opinions as he really knows his shit. He gave me a few cuts and the recipes he has been using with them and I can post some things as it progresses periodically.

Heres a few pics of my recent grow and my last run using AN Jungle Juice 2 part this was about 4 weeks ago right before I switched to bloom. And i can take some pics this weekend for yah they are roughly 26-28 days into bloom and I will update the photos when I go there on Friday for yah if ur interested.
   

Ill keep u posted when I go back and show you how they are doing. They r fuckin monsters right now, base stalks you cant even take your pointer finger and thumb and make it around the stalks. I got the recipe for this if anyone wants it. Should get about 7-7.5 lbs off this room its 3 (1000w) HPS and 2 (400w) MH for extra push and supplemental lighting.


----------



## Gquebed (Dec 31, 2014)

That. Is impressive.... very impressive. And please do post some more updates with pics. It sets the bar...lol


----------



## pk_boosted2 (Jan 1, 2015)

Gquebed said:


> That. Is impressive.... very impressive. And please do post some more updates with pics. It sets the bar...lol


Apparently i grow schwag BTW people on here love to hate whenever someone does good. I appreciate the kind words and am here to help BOL and Happy Harvests!

This was the last run of strawberry fields just finishing up the cure right now.


----------



## pk_boosted2 (Jan 1, 2015)

So funny how if u tell any of these dudes that the info they give and shit they tell u to do is wrong then they all wanna gang up on you and talk shit instead of giving respect when its deserved. Half shit on here is useless and not even helpful.

Its also funny that this forum is supposed to be used to help people with problems or give techniques or valid information and whenever someone asks a question especially regarding plant problems all these MASTER growers cant even give anyone a straight answer. They just post links to pictures of deficiencies and problems but cant tell anyone why its happening. I find that shit to be absolutely ridiculous. 

Another funny thing is whenever someone says that Canna or AN is good products they all wanna jump down your throat and tell u your stupid for using expensive products because dyna gro is the best. LMAO this shit i posted above was all grown using AN and Botanicare. You pay for what you get I guess Im going against the grain on here because im not a bang wagon clown who dick rides some random ppl on an internet forum who do 1 light closet grows and think they know everything.

Best advise is to only take information from people who can back their shit up with photos and relevant experience and stay away from ppl who re use same photos on every post and tell you that theres only 1 way to do things. Theres so much BS on here and haters its crazy man.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jan 1, 2015)

Funny how gpw was started as a joke by potroast many years ago. It is not a valid measurement of anything. Like folks who swear by over priced, low value products like Advanced Shysters and Botanicare, there's a sucker born every minute.

Potroast thought he'd have a little fun. It stuck.


----------



## Gquebed (Jan 1, 2015)

I hear what your saying. I think there's a lot of people who post in these grow forums that have done a lot of research, but have never actually grown anything. When they post to help people they just repeat shit they read and sometimes it is incredibly obvious. 

It seems like the experienced growers who could give good, useful info are put off by all of that so dont bother posting. Such a shame...


----------



## Gquebed (Jan 1, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> Funny how gpw was started as a joke by potroast many years ago. It is not a valid measurement of anything.


Well.... it doesnt account for time so it may be a weak measurement, but it is a guage with some merit...


Uncle Ben said:


> Funny how gpw was started as a joke by potroast many years ago. It is not a valid measurement of anything.


----------



## RM3 (Jan 1, 2015)

I agree with UB on this, I would rather judge my grows by how many hits it takes to put someone down, much rather grow an oz of one hitter shit than a lb of mids


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jan 1, 2015)

Gquebed said:


> Well.... it doesnt account for time so it may be a weak measurement, but it is a guage with some merit...


It has no merit, it's just plain stupid.

No 2 hoods, lamps, spacing above plants are the same. You can not duplicate the factors involved. The gpw of your rust bucket hood and my fancy spec'd out hood of a different profile are not the same as one is placed 2' above the canopy and the other is placed 1' above, one is one brand, the other another brand..... Even the genetics will differ from one to another. 

The joke is on you.


----------



## Gquebed (Jan 1, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> It has no merit, it's just plain stupid.
> 
> No 2 hoods, lamps, spacing above plants are the same. You can not duplicate the factors involved. The gpw of your rust bucket hood and my fancy spec'd out hood of a different profile are not the same as one is placed 2' above the canopy and the other is placed 1' above, one is one brand, the other another brand..... Even the genetics will differ from one to another.
> 
> The joke is on you.


By your other posts you seemed to be a reasonable guy. But this one just shows you to be just another jerkoff who thinks they know everything and everybody else knows nothing....


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jan 2, 2015)

Let's take just one scenario out of a possible hundred regarding the ONLY thing that matters to a plant, the lumens and quality of the light.

Garden footprint = 25 s.f.

1. I have 400 watts of shop fluors in 4' fixtures, lamps placed 3' above the plant canopy. Age of hood, 12 years...faded white paint.

2. I have another garden the same size using one 400W "balanced spectrum" type HPS lamp, parabolic hood with new specular insert placed 6' above the canopy.

And you're gonna sit there and tell me there is the least bit of similarity regarding what the plants "see", receive, in light output and quality and how each affects plant processes - rate of growth, photosynthetic activity, health, production?

Like I said, many years ago potroast pissed down noobs back and convinced them it was raining.


----------



## akhiymjames (Jan 2, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> Let's take just one scenario out of a possible hundred regarding the ONLY thing that matters to a plant, the lumens and quality of the light.
> 
> Garden footprint = 25 s.f.
> 
> ...


Too many different factors for it to be a real good measuring stick but I guess it's good for a person to know what he's getting per watt so he could try to achieve more. I wouldn't try to use this as a measure on all strains of try to compare it to somebody else's setup tho


----------



## pk_boosted2 (Jan 2, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> Let's take just one scenario out of a possible hundred regarding the ONLY thing that matters to a plant, the lumens and quality of the light.
> 
> Garden footprint = 25 s.f.
> 
> ...


Well the question is then, if all things being constant in your grow including: strain, light, space and power consumption (running same veg and bloom period for all growth cycles ex. 3 weeks veg @ 24 hours then 9 weeks bloom @12 hours). If you dont use gram per watt (GPW) to obtain your yields and output then how can you tell if you are dialing in a strain and getting better results between grows?

GPW is a precise measurement that everyone globally uses to pinpoint how much a strain is yielding indoors and 1 GPW is a standard that you should shoot for. Even seed companies when you look at their descriptions and yield content regards that a particular strain can yield between 0.8 gpw and 1.0 gpw under 1000w lamp fixtures.

How is GPW a bullshit unit of measurement? Given all things are constant: strain, lamp/bulb size, room, containers and light cycle. Assuming these are the basic factors heres 2 examples..

So my grow room is a 10x10. Im running exactly 6 plants per light or 24 plants. Im running 4 weeks of veg @24 hours per day and 9 weeks of 12/12 hours per day. Im using 5 gallon containers and the same cuts from the same mother plants on all my grows.

Example on my first run #1:
I harvested this run and I was able to get 7 lbs or roughly 3100 grams or 0.78 GPW. OR an average of 775 grams per bulb.

OR
Example on the next run #2:
This time I harvested 8.25 lbs or roughly 3700 grams or 1.08 GPW. OR an average of 925 grams per bulb.

Example on the next and final run #3:
I was able to harvest 7.5 pounds or roughly 3360 grams or 0.84 GPW. OR an average of 840 grams per bulb.

How is using GPW to monitor how well you are growing and yielding on a particular strain bullshit? IMO GPW is a basic platform that everyone uses to measure their yields and if they are dialing in their grows and moving forward using the measurement of GPW will tell you how well you are growing that particular strain and if adjustments need to be made. 1 GPW is the gold standard thay everyone for most part grows tries to obtain (strain dependent obviously some wont ever do that). But seed packages and strain information is easy to obtain and will also tell you how much that particular strain can yield some are expressed in GPW while others are measured in Grams per sq./meter. So assuming that you continue to grow in the same space, same containers and using the same wattage of lights in veg and bloom, and the same exact phenos from mother plants; IF you arent gonna measure your output or total yield in comparison to total numbers of grams per wattage then what other measurement would you want to use? 

Some measure a gram per sq meter which breaks down like this: a 10 x 10 room = 100 sq ft. OR 9.2903 meters squared. For its purpose we can round to then tenth and make it 9.3 meter squared. So using 4 lights @1000W per bulb using them in an area covering 9.3 meters squared, then you are left with roughly 2.325 sq meters per 1000w bulb. Since, most strains on average yield approx. say 350-450 grams per square meter (just using a average of what I found on seedbank site I dont know if this is true just using as an example!!) 

So taking this assumption you can then multiply that estimate times the 2.325 sq meters that each 1000w bulb covers for space and you get a range of 813 grams to 1050 grams per 2.325 sq. meters. At the end of the day grams per square meter and in comparison to the examples above using the grams per watt (GPW) measurement are roughly the same give or take a few grams. This is because the light and your output or wattage is a constant variable that covers a specified area of growth. So no matter what size room you have or how many containers or whatever other factor you want to change, the ONE thing thats ALWAYS constant is the size of the bulb and the output of watts. So measuring in GPW is in reality the best unit of measuring the output and yield for harvesting to monitor how well you are running a particular strain.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jan 2, 2015)

Ahhhhhhhhh chihuahua!


----------



## akhiymjames (Jan 2, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Well the question is then, if all things being constant in your grow including: strain, light, space and power consumption (running same veg and bloom period for all growth cycles ex. 3 weeks veg @ 24 hours then 9 weeks bloom @12 hours). If you dont use gram per watt (GPW) to obtain your yields and output then how can you tell if you are dialing in a strain and getting better results between grows?
> 
> GPW is a precise measurement that everyone globally uses to pinpoint how much a strain is yielding indoors and 1 GPW is a standard that you should shoot for. Even seed companies when you look at their descriptions and yield content regards that a particular strain can yield between 0.8 gpw and 1.0 gpw under 1000w lamp fixtures.
> 
> ...


What your saying is true to some extent but like Uncle Ben said there's way to many different factors and variables for everyone to use this as a global standard. We all aren't growng the same way in the same location with same genetics. It's just way to much for everyone to try and use the same standard. Like you said and I also said its good for a person who's trying to get the most out of a certain strain for their records only but to say that would be the standard for that strain or a 600w light is not right cus nothing is the exact same


----------



## pk_boosted2 (Jan 2, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> What your saying is true to some extent but like Uncle Ben said there's way to many different factors and variables for everyone to use this as a global standard. We all aren't growng the same way in the same location with same genetics. It's just way to much for everyone to try and use the same standard. Like you said and I also said its good for a person who's trying to get the most out of a certain strain for their records only but to say that would be the standard for that strain or a 600w light is not right cus nothing is the exact same


Well u got remember that the light, room size and strain are the only 2 things that are always constant they arent gonna change if ur running same phenos, so using gpw is the best unit of measurement. Or grams per sq meter which is just another version of gpw because your light is whats covering the space youre growing in. 

The only thing thats different is some strains arent able to achieve 1 gpw, so getting 0.7 or 0.8 gpw could be great results for that pheno such as girl scout cookies or original og's that arent high yielders. 

So say ur running the OG cuts and you harvest 600 grams off a 1k, now u got a standard GPW for that cut which comes out to be 0.6 gpw. So your next grow u wanna try and yield more than that right? What other measurement would you use to dial in a strain besides yield compared to wattage? It doesnt matter if youre running 600w or 1000w because the number f grams is merely divided by the wattage. Your always gonna get the same GPW ratio for the most part give or take a small variance.

Obviously this is only applicable for indoor grows as outside this formula is useless. And all seedbanks and strain information is based off running 1000w bulbs. Most strains come with grow information regarding yield primarily GPW or Grams per sq/meter which is the same as shown in my examples. Large growers.. Commercial growers etc dont really use 600w lamps for flowering. Why would u run 600w over 1000w when space is limited? Very rarely have I ever come across a commercial or large grower using 600w over 1000w unless its dead summer heat and cooling is an issue, but most large commercial growers got big half ton and ton a/c's to run big lights. So gpw is usually based on idea of running 1000w lamps. But whatever ppl w argue about anything on here

Just dont know what a better measurement for yield than gpw or gram per sq/meter considering those are the only variables in a grow besides the strain which is a factor not a variable.


----------



## akhiymjames (Jan 2, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Well u got remember that the light, room size and strain are the only 2 things that are always constant they arent gonna change if ur running same phenos, so using gpw is the best unit of measurement. Or grams per sq meter which is just another version of gpw because your light is whats covering the space youre growing in.
> 
> The only thing thats different is some strains arent able to achieve 1 gpw, so getting 0.7 or 0.8 gpw could be great results for that pheno such as girl scout cookies or original og's that arent high yielders.
> 
> ...


Bro I agree with you completely. For growers like me and you I think it is a good measurement for for trying to figure out how much a certain pheno will yield for you and trying to make it better on next run but all Uncle Ben is saying as standard measurement it can't be used cus no setup and growing conditions will be the same. Too many variables but I get your point man.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jan 2, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> Well u got remember that the light, room size and strain are the only 2 things that are always constant they arent gonna change


There isn't one light source in any indoor garden that is the same. It is not a <constant> which makes the gpw ruse a fallacy, and you a fallacy for believing in this joke.


----------



## RM3 (Jan 3, 2015)

Not only are the various light sources different but increasing yield via light is limited. All of the major ways to increase yields have nothing to do with lights, bigger pots, longer veg time, different styles ie; LST, Mainlining, Scrog, SOG etc. And let's not forget genetics 

A better measuring stick would be area as in my garden is 5X5, some have a 3X3, some have a 4X4, some have a 10X10. *The better question for a grower to ask themselves is what can I do to increase yields in my area ? *

Doing area, light becomes a bigger variable in the tweaking process, you can up the wattage ie; go from a 600 to 1000, you can add side lighting, you can implement a light mover.

As a prime example, I have a grower friend that has 80 plants under a light mover in a 12X30 garden space. The light mover has 3 lights on it 2 600's and a 400 or 1600 watts. Now lets say that he hits 2 ounces per plant (a conservative estimate) X 80 plants is 4528 grams or 2.8 gpw 

I hope this helps every one see the fallacy of grams per watt


----------



## clayawesome (Jan 3, 2015)

ur saying this grower would not want to moniter the number of grams he gets per watt to know if he does better or worse than last time? its simply a measure of yield compared to electricity used. it can be very useful to know.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jan 3, 2015)

clayawesome said:


> ur saying this grower would not want to moniter the number of grams he gets per watt to know if he does better or worse than last time? its simply a measure of yield compared to electricity used. it can be very useful to know.


No it can't because it leaves out a dozen factors that are involved in photosynthesis. You can't paint this with the same broad brush since there are no two lighting conditions that are similar.

ALL things considered, meaning the exact same garden - # of plants, clones, temps, watering schedule, foods, etc. a garden with one type of light source will not produce the same as a garden with a different light source.

I tell you what can be useful to know - getting a high quality light meter as opposed to sitting around in a knitting circle throwing out irrelevant terms.


----------



## spek9 (Jan 3, 2015)

I use the following method to calculate GPW (it takes into account time, and allows me to do an exact electrical cost to harvest ratio). It is not simply "I have a 1kw lamp and got 1,000 grams" equation.

http://rollitup.org/t/proper-calculation-of-gram-per-watt-ratio.843161/



-spek


----------



## Gquebed (Jan 3, 2015)

For me, the gpw is a broad guage... like everybody has said there are too many variables for it to be precise. But that can be said of any measurement of yield. The missing factor in gpw seems to be time. I grow 1 lb of strain "X" under a 400w hid and say i got 1.1 gpw. But if i vegged that 10 weeks what is the measurment really saying if another guy did the exact same vegging for 7 weeks?

So while the gpw measurement can be a good rule of thumb it does lack a time factor....


----------



## Gquebed (Jan 3, 2015)

So the gpw needs to either be personalized or standardized. Since most people veg for only 4 weeks maybe that should be the standard time factor. 

For me, my personalized time factor in gpw is 8 week veg, since i always veg for 8 weeks...


----------



## Gquebed (Jan 3, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> There isn't one light source in any indoor garden that is the same. It is not a <constant> which makes the gpw ruse a fallacy, and you a fallacy for believing in this joke.



Splitting hairs here. No two lights are the same... true. But any two 1000w hids are close enough to make gpw a viable guage. 

And maybe it was your pal who invented this gpw business to fuck with a newb (which i think is bullshit), but it has merit even if it wasn't intended.


----------



## Uncle Ben (Jan 4, 2015)

Gquebed said:


> Splitting hairs here. No two lights are the same... true. But any two 1000w hids are close enough to make gpw a viable guage.


Not if grower 'A' has his hung 4' above the canopy and grower 'B' has his hanging 6' above.... both systems being identical.

There aren't two 1000W lamp systems that when measured with a quality f.c. light meter will register the same lumens at the same distance from the midpoint of the lamp. The age of the bulb, type of hood, distance from the canopy, garden profile and many other factors play into what the plant actually uses regarding photons for photosynthesis.

It was a joke on noobs.


----------



## Alienwidow (Jan 4, 2015)

akhiymjames said:


> Bro I agree with you completely. For growers like me and you I think it is a good measurement for for trying to figure out how much a certain pheno will yield for you and trying to make it better on next run but all Uncle Ben is saying as standard measurement it can't be used cus no setup and growing conditions will be the same. Too many variables but I get your point man.


ya he's right, you and i know it. if you can't see the correlation between the light offered and the product rendered then you might as well post in the advanced growing section with the guys that can't see how a grow needs a measure of success. if your bulbs are old then your gpw may suffer. thats up to you to control that.


----------



## Alienwidow (Jan 4, 2015)

oh and as ben says, your system could suck too, or your type of hood, or your distance from the canopy, garden profile. either way, you have one light with one gpw measure. you fail and you fail, simple gpw math. gpw doesn't care if you didn't replace your bulb.


----------



## akhiymjames (Jan 4, 2015)

I agree bro totally


----------



## Gquebed (Jan 4, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> Not if grower 'A' has his hung 4' above the canopy and grower 'B' has his hanging 6' above.... both systems being identical.
> 
> There aren't two 1000W lamp systems that when measured with a quality f.c. light meter will register the same lumens at the same distance from the midpoint of the lamp. The age of the bulb, type of hood, distance from the canopy, garden profile and many other factors play into what the plant actually uses regarding photons for photosynthesis.
> 
> It was a joke on noobs.



Whatever. BTW....you spelled noobs wrong. It is newbs, the pun being within the spelling....you know new guys newbs.

Just sayin... or am i wrong becUse your buddy made that one up too?


----------



## pk_boosted2 (Jan 5, 2015)

Uncle Ben said:


> Not if grower 'A' has his hung 4' above the canopy and grower 'B' has his hanging 6' above.... both systems being identical.
> 
> There aren't two 1000W lamp systems that when measured with a quality f.c. light meter will register the same lumens at the same distance from the midpoint of the lamp. The age of the bulb, type of hood, distance from the canopy, garden profile and many other factors play into what the plant actually uses regarding photons for photosynthesis.
> 
> It was a joke on noobs.



The LIGHT in YOUR garden is always constant its the light YOU are using!! What are u talking about its diferent in everyones grow? No shit. GPW is a measurement regardless of a 400-600-1000 w etc... Using a standard MH for veg and HPS for bloom, you should have a target range of producing 1 GPW on average for most strains give or take depending on the variety. Some will produce more, some will produce less.

BUT, if YOU are running the same strains continuously in YOUR garden using the SAME light source, THEN measuring GPW regarding yields is a good measurement. Wsp w this every garden is different BS? It doesnt matter what u are running. If u got 600w lamps u wanna get 600 grams per bulb. If YOU run 1000w bulbs you want to try and get 1000 grams per bulb. Whats so difficult to use that as a standard of measurement for yield? Its the perfect measurement because in YOUR garden its the only constant variable throughout your grow besides your room size which is also gonna be constant. It doesnt matter what anyone else is doing for lights or room size. LOL what are u guys talking about?

A 10 x 10 room with 2 (1000w) bulbs u wanna shoot for 2000 grams.

If your running a 12 x 12 room with 6 (600w) bulbs u wanna shoot for 3600 grams or 1 gpw. 

It dont matter who joe blow is using for bulb size or grow room space. Its a target and standard for yield. Almost every seed company on the market uses GPW or Grams per sq/meter because the footprint of your light covers X amount of space. Which is usually 2-2.5 sq meters. I showed u the breakdown that GPW and Gram per sq/meter are almost identical. Therefore if GPW wasnt a good unit of measurement then the math for Grams per sq/meter wouldn't have similar/identical results, BUt IT DOES, because it is a useful measurement of YOUR garden and yield in comparison to your light output.

HUH? Idk where u guys r coming up with the stuff.. U need to break down where ur coming from because I am lost by u telling me that the light in my rooms arent constant when they are all 1000w bulbs that NEVER change. GPW is GPW it doesnt matter if its 1000w or 600w your yield is gonna be smaller on 600s compared to 1000w everytime because its double the output, lol. What r u guys talking about? Seriously confused for real, making no sense period.


----------



## pk_boosted2 (Jan 5, 2015)

It doesnt matter how far your light is from canopy or how old your bulbs are, thats your fault if you dont hang your light in the appropriate range, and u didnt go buy new bulbs when your bulbs were used! WTF does that have to do w GPW? NOTHING! Nothing at all!! Come on man u just trying to argue to argue if u believe that non-sense.

GPW is a result of u measuring your independent variables. You take your inputs which is your light source and your yield and you divide it to get your GPW. If u fuck up and run your room too hot, or stress your plants, or run too small a pot, those r factors that will prove that your grow isnt dialed in because your GPW is gonna be alot lower then the goal of 1 GPW.

Nothing your saying is even relevant. LOL. Your talking about nonsense. If u keep your light 30 inches from canopy compared to 10 inches from canopy and u harvest [email protected] grams off 1 light and 1000 grams off the other light, then wtf does it matter? It doesnt!! U still got 1 gpw.. 

SMH. Sometimes arguing with know it alls just makes u dumber. These guys just bring u down to their levels and then beat u down w experience.. 

This is the most ridiculous argument i ever seen on here, this guys talking about shit that has NOTHING to do w measuring GPW. 

GPW = Light size in watts/number of grams

It dont matter anything else is irrelevant. Temperature, humidity, strain, pot size anything else dont matter. If u dont hit close too or above 1 GPW then all shit I listed are the things u change because ur room isnt dialed in. You dont go oh I got 350 grams off this 600w so let me buy a 1000w to get 600 grams. NO thats the same shit, you go and fix ur environment or feeding schedule so u can get the 600 grams off the 600w bulb!! Come on man stop arguing ur killin us for real. Ur not that stupid that u believe this r u being serious or u just wanna argue about shit again? Thats a serious question cuz u being ridiculous man.


----------



## pk_boosted2 (Jan 5, 2015)

RM3 said:


> Not only are the various light sources different but increasing yield via light is limited. All of the major ways to increase yields have nothing to do with lights, bigger pots, longer veg time, different styles ie; LST, Mainlining, Scrog, SOG etc. And let's not forget genetics
> 
> A better measuring stick would be area as in my garden is 5X5, some have a 3X3, some have a 4X4, some have a 10X10. *The better question for a grower to ask themselves is what can I do to increase yields in my area ? *
> 
> ...


My dude, if u add side lighting or increase your area that dont matter if u got a 1000w bulb and u add 600w of say CFL bulbs then u aint running 1000w ur running 1600w so if u aint pulling down 1600 grams or close to that which is 1 gpw then u need fix ur room. Or if u strain only can get 0.8 gpw and ur getting 0.5 gpw then u change factors. U cant say oh im only getting 600 grams of my 1000w lamp which is under 0.6 gpw so in order for me to do better im gonna add 800w of cfl and side lighting to get 1000 grams off my "1000w" main lamp. Ur no longer running 1000w u r running 1800w.

Omg u r arguin about pointless shit, thats dumbest thing i ever heard for real. Come on son.

And there aint no way in hell ur using a light mover and hitting those numbers. Light movers are garbage and a waste of money straight up everyone knows that lol. If u use 1600w ur only hitting roughly 1600 grams lets say everyhing was perfect on a super yielding strain u be lucky get 1200 grams w a light mover. Or EVERYONE would be using 1 (1000w bulb and a light mover on a 30 x 30 room with 200 plants and getting 30 pounds off 1 light!!)

WOW and u guys think this dude is legit telling ppl BS information like using a light mover w 1600 total watts produces 4000+ grams ???

Hahahahahhahahahahahah yeah fuckin right dude seriously straight liar.. Holy shit Ive heard it all now.

Imma switch all 6 of my 1000s and just use 2 of them w light movers and get wayy more cuz the light moves around the room? Buahahahahahhahahahh WTF!!!

Stop smoking that shit my dude u r cooked!!!


----------



## RM3 (Jan 6, 2015)

Well PK, I don't know where you get your notions but he was actually hitting 2 to 3 oz's per plant, growin em to 3 feet and doin CO2 injection in da room


----------



## pk_boosted2 (Jan 6, 2015)

RM3 said:


> Well PK, I don't know where you get your notions but he was actually hitting 2 to 3 oz's per plant, growin em to 3 feet and doin CO2 injection in da room


Yeah right ok lmao


----------



## pk_boosted2 (Jan 6, 2015)

1600 watts on 80 plants w a light mover yielding 4000+ grams. Get the fuck outta here bro u got more shit comin out ur mouth then a sanitation plant. Noone believes that ridiculous non sense go somewhere w that, only a moron or green dude in the game would believe that shit ur sprayin. U dont even believe that yourself. Thats another online whale tale and war story from the keyboard warriors u guys pretend to be on here. 

Like i always say u guys come online and its like u joined the army cuz u can be all u can be on the internet. If u got 1600w w a light mover u b lucky get 1000 grams cuz 75% of your plant are in the shade every few minutes, that gonna make airy larfy ass buds and u aint gettin ounces per plant. BS! When i first started and them light rails came out i tried them and saving money using 1-2 lights they dont do shit they r garbage nobody uses that ghetto ass shit anymore fuz they dont work period. Come on son bring that to the noob section maybe someone believe u over there lol


----------



## Drumfounded (Jan 10, 2015)

Hahahahaha. This shit is the truth right now.


----------



## opiumfiend (Jan 10, 2015)

pk_boosted2 said:


> It doesnt matter how far your light is from canopy or how old your bulbs are, thats your fault if you dont hang your light in the appropriate range, and u didnt go buy new bulbs when your bulbs were used! WTF does that have to do w GPW? NOTHING! Nothing at all!! Come on man u just trying to argue to argue if u believe that non-sense.
> 
> GPW is a result of u measuring your independent variables. You take your inputs which is your light source and your yield and you divide it to get your GPW. If u fuck up and run your room too hot, or stress your plants, or run too small a pot, those r factors that will prove that your grow isnt dialed in because your GPW is gonna be alot lower then the goal of 1 GPW.
> 
> ...



right. let me ask you a noob question since you claim to know what you are talking about. because there's something really basic which is confusing me. so when you buy seeds the companies will say 400-600 grams per square meter or 100 grams per square meter etc. but how many plants is that for. does that mean that, that is what you should be pulling regardless of if it's 5 large plants taking up a square meter or 10 smaller ones, or does it mean if the whole entire space is completely packed with bud sites like say a screen of green. im running 10 plants atm (afgooey and og kush). my plants are about 1 meter to 1.3 meters tall. i can fit about 4-5 per square meter with 1 1000watt under per square meter. so should i be pulling the breeders advertised grams per square meter?. i haven't really used any training techniques. the plants do have lots of bud sites that are exposed using bamboo stakes. but anyway my case or plants isn't the point. the main thing i was wandering is. what is the breeders GPSM based on. in terms of plant number and training or growing techniques. cheers.


----------



## King Arthur (Jan 10, 2015)

Someone pull a red card, sounds like a bunch of horse shit to me. 

1600 watts and getting 4000 grams

That is more than 2 grams per watt, how many people do you know that do that? Not a damn one of them.


----------



## pk_boosted2 (Jan 11, 2015)

opiumfiend said:


> right. let me ask you a noob question since you claim to know what you are talking about. because there's something really basic which is confusing me. so when you buy seeds the companies will say 400-600 grams per square meter or 100 grams per square meter etc. but how many plants is that for. does that mean that, that is what you should be pulling regardless of if it's 5 large plants taking up a square meter or 10 smaller ones, or does it mean if the whole entire space is completely packed with bud sites like say a screen of green. im running 10 plants atm (afgooey and og kush). my plants are about 1 meter to 1.3 meters tall. i can fit about 4-5 per square meter with 1 1000watt under per square meter. so should i be pulling the breeders advertised grams per square meter?. i haven't really used any training techniques. the plants do have lots of bud sites that are exposed using bamboo stakes. but anyway my case or plants isn't the point. the main thing i was wandering is. what is the breeders GPSM based on. in terms of plant number and training or growing techniques. cheers.



Well to answer simplistically. Its assuming your running a standard veg time 4-5 weeks. Obviously utilizing your space. Its just a general guideline i used as an example. Of course if u ran 2 plants for 2 weeks veg and they were small u arent gonna get those numbers. Its assuming ur running a standard garden and packing the space with decent sized plants.


----------



## Fruitbat (Jan 11, 2015)

*Newbie*, *newb*, *noob*, *n00b*, *noobie*, *n00bie* or *nub* is a slang term for a novice or newcomer, or somebody inexperienced in any profession or activity.

The "noob" or "n00b" variant was started in the early hacking and online gaming community who had/has a penchant for creatively changing the spelling of commonly used words such as; hacker to h4x0r, elite to 1337, porn to pr0n. Example; "U R an ub4r 1337 h4xor".

But I digress...I get 1 Million Grams Per Watt. But that's because it run L-10 Activated Helium Runners on a 4 Plexer. Combine that with Flooded Injection Ports timed on a milicycle Column and you are good to go!


----------



## Cannabil (Jul 9, 2015)

Whenever anyone is trying to do Scrog using trellising or tie down methods you have to be familiar with your strain. Since there are so many different varieties of cannabis finding specific strains that respond well to different growing methods will make a huge impact on overall yield.

For the most part sativa dominant strains dont tend to do very well since they grow long and lanky plants. you want to get a strain that grows bushy and can be scrog or trellised i would focus on a variety that grows in such a manner where you will benefit from using these methods to enhance your yields.

I never use the low stress training as I find that simply topping and pruning the plants properly will result in what you are most likely trying to achieve which is stout short and bushy plants with plenty of tops. Only time you want to low stress train is when you have ceiling height restrictions or space problems.

Regaring light coverage I wouldnt ever exceed a 5x5 on a 1000w or a 4x4 on a 600w. Its important and what I like to do is measure the corners of the reflector I use I like blockbusters or magnum xxl hoods. And figure out a perfect 5x5 area even on all sides and then use tape on the floor to outline the area. That way I can focus all plants into that area and use either styrofoam insulation boards or cardboard with reflective material or paint white and trap all light inside of that area so it can bounce and reflect all light onto plants in that space. Using the corner of your rooms for each light is also very good way to trap that light. Anything that doesnt get absorbed into that space is just wasting the light. I promise this makes a huge difference believe it or not!

Regarding trellising your plants in general is an okay method to grow similar to sea of green where you are basically just focusing all of your light on the canopy and upper portions of the plant. Doing this method it is important to lollipop and clean all underbrush to focus on the main tops since very little light is going to penetrate the canopy. Problem with trellising is that its hard to maneuver once the trellising is up and if you have a problem or need to move plants or anything else its near impossible to get around in a packed room. But they do work very well when done correctly as you are able to focus all light over a specified area and concentrate on the main tops which can definetely impact your yields in a positive way! Its also a pain in the ass not only setting them up but also when its harvest time as it can be a nightmare cutting down plants that are woven into trellis. I ran trellising for years until more recently where I prefer the next method. Which is staking!!

IMHO simply using tomatoe stakes and green zip string or tape works best at opening up the plant and supporting it at the same time. This method also works better when running heavily packed rooms with large plants and gives you ability to rotate and turn your pots every few days to get light coverage over entire plant which is very beneficial. When you trellis and screen plants they are stuck where they are from time you set it up til harvest. Nothing better than some nice stakes and support for big branches with same ability to open the plant up. I like to stake the plants putting them on a 45* angle from middle stalk outside creating basically V's around the pot and pulling main stalks out to tops so light hits all parts of the branch down to the bottom portion where you get entire stalks full of buds. Some people also like to teepee the stakes basically taking 3-4 stakes and meeting them in the middle. Doing this you can simply support your main branches and then use tape or string to attach other side branches off your main ones and has little impact on the light penetration.

Just find the best method for yourself theres always ways to improve and tryin new things never hurts. Even if its fails at least you leanred something new and know what to do or not to do for your next run. I find running 6-9 plants in either 5 or 7 gallon pots is the best way to get 2 lbs per light (depends on strain some just wont produce anymore than 1.5) its just not in its genetics. Kind of like having 2 parents that are 5 ft tall the odds of you ever being 6 ft tall are pretty slim. And people claiming to get the glorious 3 lbs per light indoors might be telling some fishing tales. Ive heard of some master growers out in spain and europe claiming there are some critical varieties that can get 3 lbs a light but thats some shit for the record books and id like to see it with my own eyes before I go believing all that jazz. If you can get a good pound and a half of premium buds not the popcorn and larf shit included in dry weight you know what youre doing. 2 lbs a light is considered an expert grower if you hit that consistently you can write some books because those are good results and you obviously know what youre doing. Im happy with 1.75 a light on average if I can get 10 lbs off every 6 lights I do than thats good. I wouldnt go believing everyone who claims they get 2 lbs per light everytime unless you know them and you see it or they are very credible sources. Many will agree. If you are gettin 2 lbs per light consistently please share your info and what youre using for nutrients and medium and maybe we can all get there one day


----------



## Alexander Supertramp (Jul 10, 2015)

I always chuckle when I hear the term GPW. GPWH(grams per watt hour) is the way to measure production. So you got 1 gpw. After and 8-10 veg prior to flower. Yet another grower gets 1 gpw with only a 4 week veg. Easy to tell whos garden is most productive.


----------



## Cannabil (Jul 10, 2015)

Alexander Supertramp said:


> I always chuckle when I hear the term GPW. GPWH(grams per watt hour) is the way to measure production. So you got 1 gpw. After and 8-10 veg prior to flower. Yet another grower gets 1 gpw with only a 4 week veg. Easy to tell whos garden is most productive.


What if you got 1 gpw off 4 plants on 8 wk veg and the 4 week veg used 12 plants?

If you have plant restrictions like most med grows what other way is there to measure than gpw? Everyone runs 12 hours on and 12 off so the only constant thing in your grows is the light. The plant number is not fixed, not the strain isnt fixed, the room size isnt fixed, climate isnt fixed. The only factor in all grows using 1000w bulbs is the bulb which is yor output so thats dependent on your bulb.

So in all reality the gpw is the best way to measure your output. Nothing else matters because nothing else is constant besides the fact you are running a 1000w ballast for 12 hours.

So idk why anyone else would measure anything but gpw since thats your input and your results are the output. Simple mathematical equation. X amount of light produces Y amount of bud


----------



## Cannabil (Jul 10, 2015)

Or a complete equation would be

X = watts (bulb size) divided by the number of grams produced = Y (grams per watt)

Theres no other way of measuring it


----------



## Cannabil (Jul 10, 2015)

Only argument people could make is veg time but the problem is that veg time has nothing to do with bloom time.

Since all plants that go into bloom only receive 12 hours of light from start to finish it doesnt matter the time you vegged because the equation for yield is only determined by hours of light on a fixed unit of watts.

Regardless if someone spent 4 weeks or 8 weeks of veg the only thing that changes is the hours of usage or electricity bill used to grow the 2 lbs per light at the end of the day all you got is 2 pound per light so what else is there to talk about?

If you put plants into a room for 8 weeks of bloom and you get 2 pounds no mater what than yah the 4 week veg opposed to 8 weeks may save you moneybut you still only got 1 gpw or 2 pounds per light

Now if u vegged for 4 weeks and got 2.5 pounds per light vs 8 week veg at 2 pounds well than that something to talk about but than again you would also be getting more gpw so you see it all goes back to gpw because thats the output.


----------



## Cannabil (Jul 10, 2015)

People dont just come up wih things if they dont make sense. GPW is used by alot of people because it a simple formula.

People on these forums try and debunk common sense and call things stupid that make total sense leading to confusion which shouldnt be the case

GPW is a good measurement because it makes sense. if you can give me a better measurement than gpw i would love to hear it??

Now if you are gonna talk about ** efficiency than LED's would be the exception since they run half the draw watts as they are able to produce in comparison to HID's. Most 800w equivalent units only draw half the watts from wall and can yield more than a gpw of draw power. So getting more than a GPW would be understandable at explaining that theory. But it would still be measured in GPW so you would still be back at the same argument. 

Most people talking about a GPW are talking about standard 600w and 1000w HID's.


----------



## ThaProdiG (Aug 22, 2015)

Cannabil said:


> Only argument people could make is veg time but the problem is that veg time has nothing to do with bloom time.
> 
> Since all plants that go into bloom only receive 12 hours of light from start to finish it doesnt matter the time you vegged because the equation for yield is only determined by hours of light on a fixed unit of watts.
> 
> ...


root space availability comes into play with a longer veg time.. you yield more allowing the majority of rooting being done in flower ime.


----------



## ThaProdiG (Aug 22, 2015)

ThaProdiG said:


> root space availability comes into play with a longer veg time.. you yield more allowing the majority of rooting being done in flower ime.


.. off the point ^^ um.. then gpw doesnt necessarily measure efficiency... Just yield pertaining to the light used... if time doesnt factor in then the measurement holds no actual use... like if i harvest twice in the time you harvest once... and i yield more from the 2 harvests than you did in the one... technically i get more gpw/


----------



## ThaProdiG (Aug 23, 2015)

Cannabil said:


> People dont just come up wih things if they dont make sense. GPW is used by alot of people because it a simple formula.
> 
> People on these forums try and debunk common sense and call things stupid that make total sense leading to confusion which shouldnt be the case
> 
> ...


then gpw doesnt necessarily measure efficiency... Just yield pertaining to the light used... if time doesnt factor in either, then the measurement holds no actual use... say if i harvest twice in the time you harvest once... and i yield more from the 2 harvests than you did in the one... technically i get more gpw/


----------

