# Chemist77 315 watt CDL grow



## TheChemist77 (Aug 17, 2015)

Just switched from 2 600 watt hps to 2 315 watt boulderlamp cdl's over a 4x6ft F&D table.. plants are 2 weeks into flower.. i already see a big diference, my plants have stretched less and have a tighter node spacing under the cdl's.. plants are in rock wool blocks using general hydroponics maxi series, first 2 weeks they got maxi grow, 3rd week half maxi grow,half maxi bloom, next week they will get only bloom untill finish..3 strains, 12 of each, th seeds bubblegum,next generation dynamite, and next gen island sweet skunk..

the only change is the lamps, temps,nutes, even clones are the same..
So will the ceramic discarge lamps yield like hps? lets watch and see!!!
2 600 watt hps=1200 watts, 2 315 watt cdl= 630 watts over a 4ft x 6ft table.. the 600's wer in aircooled hoods, the cdl's are open hoods 2 ft above canopy.. no heat problems so far...
ill put up pix as soon as the lights come on tonight...


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 19, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Aug 19, 2015)

if any of you consider switching to ceramic lighting, each bulb lasts 20,000 hours so no more bulb changes every 6 months, same bulb for veg and flower..way better par than hps, closest spectrum to the sun of all indoor lighting.. anyways each lamp costs $500.00 at boulderlamp.com and if you say you wer referred by the chemist77 you can get a discount.. i truly hope the cdl's work as well as hps, i was told a 315 watt cdl can replace a 600 watt hps/mh, lets see...


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 19, 2015)

ok, im in the process of completing my room, still have work to do. the room is 12x12, the flower area is roughly the 4x6 table pluss 2 ft to the left of the table where i put 5 5 gallon dwc buckets. i have another 315 watt cdl to the left of the 2 over the table,sideways to cover the buckets and throw more light on the table(you can see it in the top pic).but it will be off for this run.. to the right of the table there will be 2 ft then a wall seperating a 3ftx12ft section (like a closet) wich will be my veg area. i will have a 2x4ft f&d table, and a 36 site clone king in the veg closet covered by 1 315 watt cdl and either a 125 watt cfl or maybe a 400 watt mh, not sure yet.. i have used hps/mh for 20+ years so this is all new to me..i like the idea of 1 bulb for veg and bloom and really like not having to change bulbs every 6 months so i hope these things work.
i know its a dabate on seedlings becoming male or female by enviroment, but ive always used a mh to veg,especially seedlings and ive always had at least 7-8 out of 10 end up female.. i am about to sprout some seeds dutch passions purple#1 and nirvana's papaya ..seeds are regular and will be grown under a cdl i hope i get a good female to male ratio under the cdl lamps...

my wife is going to put up pix of the paper work that came with the cdl's in case you wanted any more info on the lights.. oh and also the ppfd of the cdl at 2 ft from bulb is 700..


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## skunkd0c (Aug 19, 2015)

How long do the roots sit in the water like that, do you use air pumps too ?


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 19, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Aug 19, 2015)

skunkd0c said:


> How long do the roots sit in the water like that, do you use air pumps too ?


the table floods 3 times a day for 15 minutes, then water drains back into the rez.. there is a air stone in the rez and a 400 gal per hour pump that pumps water to flood the table.... flood n drain...so roots dont sit in water, thats dwc...


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## skunkd0c (Aug 19, 2015)

Thanks for the info mate, i have run flood n drain with pots and hydroton before , never really seen it with rockwool up so close 

i see, so they only sit in the water for 15 mins 3 times per day
and a little bit of time it takes to drain 

when the table drains how much do the roots dry out ?

when you do it with the clay pebbles they hold a little bit of moisture and the roots are wrapped all around them
i was wondering how it is with your roots as they kind of have no medium once they grow out of the rockwool

your lights and plants look nice btw, sorry i am not trying to divert your thread away from the lights
just interested in the hydro 

peace


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 20, 2015)

skunkd0c said:


> Thanks for the info mate, i have run flood n drain with pots and hydroton before , never really seen it with rockwool up so close
> 
> i see, so they only sit in the water for 15 mins 3 times per day
> and a little bit of time it takes to drain
> ...


ive also used clay rocks, but they dry out very quickly and i had trouble keeping my ph in check w/ the rocks.. the rock wool holds moisture for hours so they never dry out, and if they did get dry i would simply add more flood times so that they never dry out.. the roots stay in the rock wool, roots will not grow where they would get light..now i could put a cover over the table, then roots would form a mat over the table.. this run im leaving it as is, but i may put a cover over it on the next run..


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## ttystikk (Aug 20, 2015)

Covered tables yield more than open ones.


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 20, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Covered tables yield more than open ones.


good to know.. is it true the bigger the roots the bigger the yield? if so i can easily put a cover over the table, i like to turn plants and once the roots grow into a mat the plants cant be turned without breaking roots.. ive grown f&d, dwc, airo, under current,nft, etc..in all my different grows ive found yields to be roughly the same.. i guess i always just like the f&d method as i keep going back to it..i like watching the table flood and make sure the water is super airated as it splashes to flood the table. i just think its easier to clean, change the rez, etc..


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## ttystikk (Aug 20, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> good to know.. is it true the bigger the roots the bigger the yield? if so i can easily put a cover over the table, i like to turn plants and once the roots grow into a mat the plants cant be turned without breaking roots.. ive grown f&d, dwc, airo, under current,nft, etc..in all my different grows ive found yields to be roughly the same.. i guess i always just like the f&d method as i keep going back to it..i like watching the table flood and make sure the water is super airated as it splashes to flood the table. i just think its easier to clean, change the rez, etc..


The truth is that as long as roots aren't flooded for several hours or overnight, oxygenating the nutrient solution in flood and drain systems will only encourage growths in the res, where you don't want them; pythium, algae, etc. Keep that nutrient res covered and dark, as well.

The plants don't need the water to be aerated in this style of growing, just pumping it in and then draining does that job plenty well already.

Like you've already noted, all you need to do is monitor how often it needs to flood every day. Simple!


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## skunkd0c (Aug 20, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> ive also used clay rocks, but they dry out very quickly and i had trouble keeping my ph in check w/ the rocks.. the rock wool holds moisture for hours so they never dry out, and if they did get dry i would simply add more flood times so that they never dry out.. the roots stay in the rock wool, roots will not grow where they would get light..now i could put a cover over the table, then roots would form a mat over the table.. this run im leaving it as is, but i may put a cover over it on the next run..


That is interesting, so they roots never grow much out of those rockwool blocks
what size are they ?


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## jayjay777 (Aug 20, 2015)

Glad to see you finally planted the papya for her lol. I like nirvana, there cheap but somehow got a bad rap...let me know.

The nodes look streched a bit compared to the afghans i got, but then again mine are probably too close if there is such a thing.

The lights look like they give off a good spec from the leaves responding... I wanna see the results tho!

Maybe ill do 10 tables over 20 315s haha, if only they werent so expensive!

If your results are good, im going to order bulbs and a splitter, run 2 per 600. See if it works, bulbs are $80 each and splitters $60 i think.

Either way, im glad i choose to run tables with maxi, lifes much easier now!

When will you have some real #s for us? Oct 1st?


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## dbkick (Aug 20, 2015)

spec changes on those lamps a bit (+500K or so if I remember right) when run horizontal . 
And howdy neighbor.


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## dbkick (Aug 20, 2015)

Also the light looks nice but looks like it should be cheaper than a sun systems lec but it isn't.
I can get SS LEC for $420 +tax.


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 20, 2015)

dbkick said:


> Also the light looks nice but looks like it should be cheaper than a sun systems lec but it isn't.
> I can get SS LEC for $420 +tax.


i seen the sun system after i already bought these,,the guys at growgreenmich, told me they are based on the same tech but different bulbs,but idk? both are phillips bulbs so i think they are the same just different kelvins,,not sure though..anyways the guys at boulder wer really good and answered all my questions, and said these 315 will beat a 600 watt hps hands down,, we will see...


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 20, 2015)

jayjay777 said:


> Glad to see you finally planted the papya for her lol. I like nirvana, there cheap but somehow got a bad rap...let me know.
> 
> The nodes look streched a bit compared to the afghans i got, but then again mine are probably too close if there is such a thing.
> 
> ...


6 weeks till harvest, after i pull dry n weigh ill know for sure.. ill post total dry weight and i should have the weight off my last run with 2 600 hps's in a week or so.. they are still hanging and im not feeling like trimming just yet.. yes, my wife is happy i planted the papaya she has been waiting almost 2 years for me to plant them.lol..


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## ttystikk (Aug 20, 2015)

jayjay777 said:


> Glad to see you finally planted the papya for her lol. I like nirvana, there cheap but somehow got a bad rap...let me know.
> 
> The nodes look streched a bit compared to the afghans i got, but then again mine are probably too close if there is such a thing.
> 
> ...


Read your spec sheet more carefully. The ballasts for these 315W CMH lamps are very special little critters; they're low frequency, meaning less than 100Hz and their output is a square wave instead of the more usual sine curve. The first feature keeps the lamp alive because high frequencies will rattle then apart, and the square wave output is the real reason these lamps are so much more powerful than their wattage might suggest.

Try your splitter plan with a standard 600W digital ballast and you'll trash two bulbs in less than a week- and they won't run worth a shit before they blow, either.


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 20, 2015)

skunkd0c said:


> That is interesting, so they roots never grow much out of those rockwool blocks
> what size are they ?


ive grown 4ft plants in rock wool blocks, at the moment these are between 20-30 inches tall the island sweet skunks are taller than the dynamite n bubblegum.. the bubblegum n dynamite branch out a bit more tho.. im guessing they wont get much taller tthan 3ft max this run, the bubble gum n dynamite had 1 week of veg from rooted clones and the island sweet skunk had no veg time, rooted clones went wright into flower..


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## dbkick (Aug 20, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> i seen the sun system after i already bought these,,the guys at growgreenmich, told me they are based on the same tech but different bulbs,but idk? both are phillips bulbs so i think they are the same just different kelvins,,not sure though..anyways the guys at boulder wer really good and answered all my questions, and said these 315 will beat a 600 watt hps hands down,, we will see...


The sun systems run the same lamp philips 315 agro elite but there's actually two flavors of that lamp, one more suited for veg and full cycle at 4250K I think.
I looked at the post and just assumed you were the manufacture which appears to be right down the road from me.
The ballast may be different but doubtful, probably indentical. Not sure if the SS uses a Welthink ballast or another brand. Last I knew welthink and another company I can't recall were the only two sources I could find for ballast.


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 20, 2015)

dbkick said:


> The sun systems run the same lamp philips 315 agro elite but there's actually two flavors of that lamp, one more suited for veg and full cycle at 4250K I think.
> I looked at the post and just assumed you were the manufacture which appears to be right down the road from me.
> The ballast may be different but doubtful, probably indentical. Not sure if the SS uses a Welthink ballast or another brand. Last I knew welthink and another company I can't recall were the only two sources I could find for ballast.


the sun systems ballast isnt ontop of the reflector either is it?? that would have givven me almost 10 inches of height in my room..im sure i could take it off and rewire it but ill just leave it as is till i see the outcome.. not part of the company , just a caregiver in upper MI.


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## dbkick (Aug 20, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> the sun systems ballast isnt ontop of the reflector either is it?? that would have givven me almost 10 inches of height in my room..im sure i could take it off and rewire it but ill just leave it as is till i see the outcome.. not part of the company , just a caregiver in upper MI.


It's behind the reflector.


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## dbkick (Aug 20, 2015)

or in front of, depending on how you look at it :/


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 21, 2015)

dbkick said:


> or in front of, depending on how you look at it :/


my bulb has a 2 pin hook up, kind of like one end of a flourecent tube, 2 round pegs 1 larger than the other.. does the sun system bulbs attach the same or are they screw on mogul type bulbs?


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## dbkick (Aug 21, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> my bulb has a 2 pin hook up, kind of like one end of a flourecent tube, 2 round pegs 1 larger than the other.. does the sun system bulbs attach the same or are they screw on mogul type bulbs?


Sun systems uses the same philips agro elite lamp yes.
The lamp has actually been around for awhile and used to be the screw in type.


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## ttystikk (Aug 21, 2015)

dbkick said:


> Sun systems uses the same philips agro elite lamp yes.
> The lamp has actually been around for awhile and used to be the screw in type.


You can still get the screw in type, aka mogul socket and it works fine.


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## jayjay777 (Aug 22, 2015)

T


ttystikk said:


> Read your spec sheet more carefully. The ballasts for these 315W CMH lamps are very special little critters; they're low frequency, meaning less than 100Hz and their output is a square wave instead of the more usual sine curve. The first feature keeps the lamp alive because high frequencies will rattle then apart, and the square wave output is the real reason these lamps are so much more powerful than their wattage might suggest.
> 
> Try your splitter plan with a standard 600W digital ballast and you'll trash two bulbs in less than a week- and they won't run worth a shit before they blow, either.[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## GOLDBERG71 (Aug 24, 2015)

I'm interested in the results. Please post some pics of the final product. This is the second time I've seen this type of lighting but the first time Im really looking at it. Also if you could compare penetration between these and the standard HM/HPS it would be good info to have. I DONT TRUST ADS. I have so many ballasts 6-600 and 2-1000. I don't use them all now. So I'm not sure I can rationalize switching without a huge savings on power. But if the results are equal or better when the time comes to replace what I have Id like to know.


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## ttystikk (Aug 24, 2015)

jayjay777 said:


> T


I think the idea is for these to replace the 400W series, because it's more lumens for less watts and liner life. IE, no downside, so why support the old standard?

I'd get the name brand bulbs, Philips has a reputation to keep.


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## jayjay777 (Aug 24, 2015)

You can get the fixtire and ballast cheap from china, there $82 piece on alibaba.com, (in bulk) they look like gavitas. 

I wanna see final weight, for me, its not about less power but more lights.


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 24, 2015)

GOLDBERG71 said:


> I'm interested in the results. Please post some pics of the final product. This is the second time I've seen this type of lighting but the first time Im really looking at it. Also if you could compare penetration between these and the standard HM/HPS it would be good info to have. I DONT TRUST ADS. I have so many ballasts 6-600 and 2-1000. I don't use them all now. So I'm not sure I can rationalize switching without a huge savings on power. But if the results are equal or better when the time comes to replace what I have Id like to know.


i understand, i have 4 600's,1,1k and 4 400 watt ballasts ans 5 nice 6 inch air cooled hoods that are not being used now. i had to give these cdl's a try after reading about them in high times,,not to mention cutting my electric bill in half and saving time n money on bulb changes i just had to see what they could do..

i had run 3 400's over the table some years ago before i switched to 2 600's,,i have the total dryed weights in a book somewere,,so at harvest i can compare to weghts with 2 600's or 3 400's, but i know i yielded better w/ the 2 600's or i wouldnt have swiched..either way my electric is half what it was, i did 2 runs under a 1k too, but the 2 600's yielded better than the 1k all over the 4x6 table...

penetration,,,? dont have a light meter, i keep my plants under 4 ft tall no matter the lamp used..so im guessing the penetration of the cdl is comparable to the 2 600's, plants definatly dont stretch as much under the cdl's as hps, last run clones had the same veg time and wer all 3-4 ft tall at harvest.. this run the tallest will be 3ft wile the bubblegum n dynamite will top out around 2n half ft tall im guessing...ill put up pix in the next few days with a tape measure next to the tallest island sweet skunk and the shortest dynamite just for good measure...


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## jayjay777 (Aug 24, 2015)

I read a few other threads, seems like you get 12-14 oz per light. Or 1 gpw fairly easy with some experience. I know you can do better than most, but i dont think your gonna get 600 grams per light. Then again who knows. So many factors, I cant wait to see tho! Best of luck


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## jayjay777 (Aug 24, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> You can still get the screw in type, aka mogul socket and it works fine.


Sun systems can kiss my ass. I had a brand new ballast start smoking last week after i plugged it in. I guess i can return directly, i have to go through store, but i bought online, cannot reach them so looks like im gonna have to grab my ankles... Thanks sunlight systems!


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 25, 2015)

seems i was off on plant heights,,,way off.. the island sweet skunks are at 2ft tall 3 weeks in, the shortest dynamite is 14inches, i took pix my wife will put them up tomorrow,, i put the tape measure up next to tallest and shortest.. im not so good with digital cameras, id take my old marlboro camra over this new crap any day...also working on the wall that seperates the bloom room from veg room in pic.. the veg room will have a 2x4 table and a clone king 36 site and overhead 1 315watt cdl and a 150 watt cfl..u can see the veg table in pics..if you have any questions or want me to take a pic of somthing please let me know,, just doin the best i can with this crappy camera,,or maybe its just me?


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 25, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Aug 25, 2015)




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## GOLDBERG71 (Aug 25, 2015)

They're looking good to me. You know I forgot to mention the other day. I don't switch from MH to HPS until the stretch is done.


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 25, 2015)




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## GOLDBERG71 (Aug 25, 2015)

I'm not picking on you. But I look at this and you know what screams out to me? All that space under the table is wasted. I've been playing with hazes I couldn't fit the table and my strain in my area. That's why if I were to leave my pro mix medium I think I'd go to ebb n flo buckets. Because you're area looks a lot like mine. I've got 7 foot from floor to ceiling. Boy I wish I had a greenhouse.


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## jayjay777 (Aug 25, 2015)

They look great for 315 watts, crossing my


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 26, 2015)

GOLDBERG71 said:


> I'm not picking on you. But I look at this and you know what screams out to me? All that space under the table is wasted. I've been playing with hazes I couldn't fit the table and my strain in my area. That's why if I were to leave my pro mix medium I think I'd go to ebb n flo buckets. Because you're area looks a lot like mine. I've got 7 foot from floor to ceiling. Boy I wish I had a greenhouse.


yes, 7 ft floor to ceiling.. i tryed several different grow methods in here, the 5 gallon dwc buckets, a dwc table on floor, aero, nft, even undercurrent using totes..on those i had more room from floor to ceiling but i just found the f&d method to be my favorite, easyer to change rez,no more kneeling on the concrete, and even with the space under table i can still get 4ft plants and i try not to let plants get above that height, if they do ill bend them.. any plants over 4ft end up with popcorn on bottom so i like keeping them short and pack m in sog style.. i do want to try a scrog in time, but we will see..
i have a hose and shut off valve attached to the bottom of the rez so draining and cleaning the table is a sinch.. just open valve let it drain, spray n wipe down table,let it drain, close valve,and refill.. i have a water line (hose) and 2 drains in the room so i dont have to carry buckets of water around.. ,just turn on the hose, i can even adjust the temp of the water to hot or cold..
i grew some monsters in the 5 gallon dwc buckets, but they wer a pain in the a$$ to drain and refill..


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## GOLDBERG71 (Aug 26, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> yes, 7 ft floor to ceiling.. i tryed several different grow methods in here, the 5 gallon dwc buckets, a dwc table on floor, aero, nft, even undercurrent using totes..on those i had more room from floor to ceiling but i just found the f&d method to be my favorite, easyer to change rez,no more kneeling on the concrete, and even with the space under table i can still get 4ft plants and i try not to let plants get above that height, if they do ill bend them.. any plants over 4ft end up with popcorn on bottom so i like keeping them short and pack m in sog style.. i do want to try a scrog in time, but we will see..
> i have a hose and shut off valve attached to the bottom of the rez so draining and cleaning the table is a sinch.. just open valve let it drain, spray n wipe down table,let it drain, close valve,and refill.. i have a water line (hose) and 2 drains in the room so i dont have to carry buckets of water around.. ,just turn on the hose, i can even adjust the temp of the water to hot or cold..
> i grew some monsters in the 5 gallon dwc buckets, but they wer a pain in the a$$ to drain and refill..


I understand. I personally try not to bend the plants during flower. I'd rather not have plant focusing its energy on adjusting those solar panels (fan leaves). It takes time for the plants to adjust to that. Don't get me wrong I've done it. But suddenly bending the stem 90 degrees also sends the focus of the plant on to the branches that weren't bent. Meanwhile the one you're bending most likely has the main cola on it. That's not ideal. So I'll cut much off the lower pop corn off and save it to make hash. I add it to my clippings. Speaking of which I probably have enough to get a whole elbow now.


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## ttystikk (Aug 26, 2015)

I run big tub RDWC and I don't kneel on the floor for shit;


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 26, 2015)

GOLDBERG71 said:


> I understand. I personally try not to bend the plants during flower. I'd rather not have plant focusing its energy on adjusting those solar panels (fan leaves). It takes time for the plants to adjust to that. Don't get me wrong I've done it. But suddenly bending the stem 90 degrees also sends the focus of the plant on to the branches that weren't bent. Meanwhile the one you're bending most likely has the main cola on it. That's not ideal. So I'll cut much off the lower pop corn off and save it to make hash. I add it to my clippings. Speaking of which I probably have enough to get a whole elbow now.


i love sativa's like haze,, problem most of my patients prefer indica's.. dont bother me because i like quick finishers,,i dont have the patience for those 10-13 week strains.. not to mention as you say they get tall n i dont have the height for them either..i liked durban poison as a pure sativa tho, 7 week finish pure up high, and not branchy either..not a big producer, but i was really happy with it..very lemony scent n taste,, day time smoke only.. i have a bunch of pure sativa land race strains, and have no idea wen or if ill pop em..i have many,many, strains, i think about popping some ak47 or blue dreams in the near future sativa dominants but im also considering ak48, a pure afghan, or 1 of the big bud strains,, idk,,,maybe just pick the best one i have now and get rid of the rest..im tired of having 13 different moms alive..im literally cloning and veging 10 strains that im not even using in flower just dont want to lose the strains yet..i need to just hack em and keep my best 2 or 3 or better yet just keep the best 1..


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## GOLDBERG71 (Aug 26, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> i love sativa's like haze,, problem most of my patients prefer indica's.. dont bother me because i like quick finishers,,i dont have the patience for those 10-13 week strains.. not to mention as you say they get tall n i dont have the height for them either..i liked durban poison as a pure sativa tho, 7 week finish pure up high, and not branchy either..not a big producer, but i was really happy with it..very lemony scent n taste,, day time smoke only.. i have a bunch of pure sativa land race strains, and have no idea wen or if ill pop em..i have many,many, strains, i think about popping some ak47 or blue dreams in the near future sativa dominants but im also considering ak48, a pure afghan, or 1 of the big bud strains,, idk,,,maybe just pick the best one i have now and get rid of the rest..im tired of having 13 different moms alive..im literally cloning and veging 10 strains that im not even using in flower just dont want to lose the strains yet..i need to just hack em and keep my best 2 or 3 or better yet just keep the best 1..


Been there done that. I had over 15 before I got spider mites. Since I couldn't seem to toss some strains. I used it as a good reason to dump most of them.

Word to the wise on AK 47. It's good smoke and fast. The problem is there's auto flower mixed in there and you have to research to find that out. It was 1 of the 4 strains I ordered first. I bought 30 seeds 3 packs. And popped 6 at a time. It took a couple of years but relatively quickly I used all the beans. Because if you keep a mom and I don't. I keep cuttings then put a clone in a 1/2 gallon pot. As soon as I can grab 4 cuttings from it I take them and cull the plant. Any way if you keep a mom when the roots reach the bottom of the pot it will start to flower. All my cutting by the 3rd set of clones they would begin to flower in the flats under 24 hour light while it was rooting. I'll never buy that strain again. I have no problem paying for genetics. But not ones that I have to keep buying. I've got about a 99.5% success rate at cloning. So if I can't clone it and keep it. They can keep the genes. I have heard from a guy on here I trust that it doesn't happen in hydro.


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 27, 2015)

GOLDBERG71 said:


> Been there done that. I had over 15 before I got spider mites. Since I couldn't seem to toss some strains. I used it as a good reason to dump most of them.
> 
> Word to the wise on AK 47. It's good smoke and fast. The problem is there's auto flower mixed in there and you have to research to find that out. It was 1 of the 4 strains I ordered first. I bought 30 seeds 3 packs. And popped 6 at a time. It took a couple of years but relatively quickly I used all the beans. Because if you keep a mom and I don't. I keep cuttings then put a clone in a 1/2 gallon pot. As soon as I can grab 4 cuttings from it I take them and cull the plant. Any way if you keep a mom when the roots reach the bottom of the pot it will start to flower. All my cutting by the 3rd set of clones they would begin to flower in the flats under 24 hour light while it was rooting. I'll never buy that strain again. I have no problem paying for genetics. But not ones that I have to keep buying. I've got about a 99.5% success rate at cloning. So if I can't clone it and keep it. They can keep the genes. I have heard from a guy on here I trust that it doesn't happen in hydro.


i do the same thing, i never keep a single mother for more than 3-4 months..i plant a seed, wait for it to be mature, clone and keep the best clone as a new mother.. as soon as its big enough to get the clones needed, i clone and keep the best clone again.. i was growing my favorite plant ever, nirvanas misty,,for 5 years the last mother was probably a 75th generation clone and still just as potent and even more vigorus than the original seed mom.. they say clones degrade with each generation, but i truly believe each generation is more adapted to your grow style and they improve not degrade.. case in point, i had planted 2 northern lights#5 seeds that took 3 months in veg just to get a few clones off each, the clones grew twice as fast as the original seed moms..by the 4th or 5th selected clone mom i could get many clones after just 3 weeks of veg.. i had originally thought i was going to toss the strain because the seed moms wer so slow,, now i still have it, probably a 10th or so gen clone way better than the seed moms..

but good to know about the AK47, I had not heard that before...i have 10 serious seeds of it, ill plant them all and if it auto's ill toss it.. i can NOT stand auto's, they are great for outdoors but i feel they are worthless for indoor growers as u cant clone them.. i would say my favorite seeds are stabilized hybrids or true breed's, and land race's you can cross and make your own f1's without all the work involved with back crossing like you have to do with f1's to get uniformity from seed.. i like knowing each seed will be basicly the same plant not 10 seeds 10 diferent phenio's.. but i think im getting tired of breeding too, from now on i think ill just make S1'S of my favorite strains..


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## Sexologist420 (Sep 3, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Sep 16, 2015)




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## ttystikk (Sep 16, 2015)

VERY nice!


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## TheChemist77 (Sep 16, 2015)




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## ttystikk (Sep 16, 2015)

Might I respectfully suggest that you stick to growing, because your shutterbug skills be lacking, bro!

Just kidding! If I squint really hard, I can see how awesome they are...


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## TheChemist77 (Sep 17, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Might I respectfully suggest that you stick to growing, because your shutterbug skills be lacking, bro!
> 
> Just kidding! If I squint really hard, I can see how awesome they are...


lol,, i know i hate digital cameras,,computers, all new tech really.. i take good pix with my old marloboro camera tho,lol..my wife puts all pix up for me, im lucky i can check emails on this F ing thing... computers werent around wen i was in school, my wife is 14 years younger than me so she knows how to work on this thing.. i worry,,, my son works on an ipad at school,,he is 6 and knows computers better than me already...


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## TheChemist77 (Sep 19, 2015)

ok,, over the next 3 runs of testing im making a few minor changes..
plants will be in 4x4 blocks placed in net pots(this run they keep falling over)maybe some grow rocks over blocks in pots
im putting a cover over the table(so roots will be able to form a large mat)
going from 36 plants to 30 plants,5 rows of 5,
increasing veg time of all cuttings to 2 weeks..

all changes being made when this run is harvested...
next run 2 315 watt cdl's plus 1 400 watt hps between the cdls..total 1030 watts
2nd run 1,000 watt HPS
3rd 3 315 watt cdl's 945 watt total

till now all my veg has been under 400 watt mh, i may switch to 315 watt cdl for my veg area,, 18/6 light sced..

any recommendations or input appreciated,,,i want real results,,nothing can be different exept lighting...


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## Trippyness (Sep 26, 2015)

SUBBED. This is what I have been looking for.
Cant wait to see final yield and quality, but looking really great.


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## TheChemist77 (Sep 26, 2015)

PLEASE MAKE A VOTE.. which light should i run first? 3 cdl, 2 cdl +400 hps or 1k hps??? plants will be ready to harvest soon, ill post more pix..
i built a cover for table, clones are rooting, at harvest ill trim , dry, and weigh then post total weight.. must say the bubble gum and island sweet skunk smell like bubblelicious!! all r covered in crystals..


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## ttystikk (Sep 26, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> PLEASE MAKE A VOTE.. which light should i run first? 3 cdl, 2 cdl +400 hps or 1k hps??? plants will be ready to harvest soon, ill post more pix..
> i built a cover for table, clones are rooting, at harvest ill trim , dry, and weigh then post total weight.. must say the bubble gum and island sweet skunk smell like bubblelicious!! all r covered in crystals..


Define the type/wattage of 'cdl' you're talking about, or some of us will get the idea you're going to get licensed to drive semis...


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## Trippyness (Sep 26, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Define the type/wattage of 'cdl' you're talking about, or some of us will get the idea you're going to get licensed to drive semis...


3 CDL Lights at 315 watts unless your going with the big 860watters.
I am interested to see how the grow produces for yield and quality


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## TheChemist77 (Sep 26, 2015)

i have the 315 watt ceramic discharge lamps from boulderlamp.com,, ill call them cmh from now on as it seems to be what most call them.. bulbs are phillips 3000k, specs on page 1.. also from what ive heard the 315 watt cmh lamps are more powerfull watt per watt than the 860's,, maybe more eficient is a better choice of words,, but im not sure its true..after reading a article in high times i had to try these lights as they wer given better par values than gavita de lamps watt per watt ,run cooler, and suposedly the nearest spectrum to the sun on any indoor light...so here is my atempt at a comparison...


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## ttystikk (Sep 27, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> i have the 315 watt ceramic discharge lamps from boulderlamp.com,, ill call them cmh from now on as it seems to be what most call them.. bulbs are phillips 3000k, specs on page 1.. also from what ive heard the 315 watt cmh lamps are more powerfull watt per watt than the 860's,, maybe more eficient is a better choice of words,, but im not sure its true..after reading a article in high times i had to try these lights as they wer given better par values than gavita de lamps watt per watt ,run cooler, and suposedly the nearest spectrum to the sun on any indoor light...so here is my atempt at a comparison...


The low frequency square wave ballast does indeed drive the 315W LEC lights more efficiently than other HID types.


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 5, 2015)

ok,, wife will put up pix soon..the bubble gum trimmed and dry weighed in at 244 grams, the island sweet skunk and dynamite will be ready to weigh in a few days..
but under a total of 630 watts and already 244 grams ill easily beat the gram per watt with these lights.. if i had vegged a week longer,, i would have probably beat my best hps run.under 2 600's... buds are really covered in crystals and smell great!! bubblelicious!!


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 6, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Oct 6, 2015)

above, bubble gum trimmed in dryer. below, 4ft x 6ft table with cover and net pots ready for next run.. 
next run under 3 315 watt cmh lamps,945 watt total, 30 plants, 4x4x4 rock wool blocks in 6 inch net pots covered with grow rocks.. 
put in a larger 70 gallon rez..


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 6, 2015)




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## GroErr (Oct 6, 2015)

Very nice, those lamps are awesome, can't find anything wrong to say about mine after a year of running them. Interested to see this next run and running hydro, should be a nice haul. I have to fuck up something to drop below 1 gpw in soil, or be running really low producing strains or pheno hunts. Cheers.


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 6, 2015)

dynamite, dry n weighed,, 267 grams
bubble gum, 244
511 grams so far..
island sweet skunk should be ready to weigh tomorrow.. once its ready ill bag all in quarter pounds and get pix, then into jars for 3-5 months..
next run will be set up in a few days, ill post pix..
yield is not what i was getting under the 2 600;s. so as of now id say the 315 watt cmh is more comparable to a 400 watt hps not a 600, this next run should give better results.. i can say that im happy with the cmh lamps so far. i may even venture to say the buds look and smell better than under the hps/mh combo and definatly better than the hps alone.. lets see what increasing the wattage from 630 watts cmh to 945watts cmh will do???
im actually interested to see how this run will compare to the 2 315 watt cmh pluss 1 400 watt hps, i wonder if that extra red from the hps will change anything? oh well thats months away but i look forward to this experiment...grow well my friends!!


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## grapeoptimo (Oct 7, 2015)

nice job bro. looking forward to running more of these.


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 7, 2015)

511 grams
Island Sweet Skunk 282 grams
Total: 793 grams
630 watts over a gram per watt cmh lamps did very well


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 7, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Oct 8, 2015)

bubble gum had tighter buds with better crystal production as you can see.. the island sweet skunk and gum wer very easy to trim wile the dynamite was time consuming..i think the next 3 test runs will be bubble gum only or at least mostly gum,, running one strain should get better height uniformity.. when i took clones i was planing to run all 3 strains again, i may be 5 or 6 plants short to do 30 bubble gums,,DAMN!! oh well, clones are rooted and vegging, i normally have no down time, clones are ready to go into flower as soon as i pull..but im just finishing and light proofing the veg area, everything should be in flower soon.. ill put up pix as soon as they go in..


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 9, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> View attachment 3515502 View attachment 3515503 View attachment 3515504 View attachment 3515505 View attachment 3515506 View attachment 3515507 View attachment 3515508 View attachment 3515509 View attachment 3515510


This new setup looks really cool.


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 9, 2015)

GroErr said:


> Very nice, those lamps are awesome, can't find anything wrong to say about mine after a year of running them. Interested to see this next run and running hydro, should be a nice haul. I have to fuck up something to drop below 1 gpw in soil, or be running really low producing strains or pheno hunts. Cheers.


do you have the same 315 watt lamps from boulder? i seen sun system also has a 315 watt, lec light emitting ceramic.. i think its the same thing..or do you have the 860 watt cmh? funny how it has so many different names for the same thing, cmh,cdl,lec, why so many names?


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 9, 2015)

Hot Diggity Sog said:


> This new setup looks really cool.


thanks,, i hope the next 3 runs go well. i wonder if these tests will get others to switch their lighting? i truly hope they perform like i hoped, ill save on my electric. but its more about quality and yield, that said, i hate having so many unused lamps..
do any of you know if anybody else has a thred testing the ceramic lamps? id like to see how these lamps are doing for other growers and i think side by side tests are the best proof..


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## GroErr (Oct 9, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> do you have the same 315 watt lamps from boulder? i seen sun system also has a 315 watt, lec light emitting ceramic.. i think its the same thing..or do you have the 860 watt cmh? funny how it has so many different names for the same thing, cmh,cdl,lec, why so many names?


No, I have the Sun Systems 315w LEC, the main thing is the bulb is the same, that's what makes these things rock, regardless of what they call it. It's the 315w Philips Elite Agro CMH bulb that makes the magic happen, nice haul!


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## ttystikk (Oct 9, 2015)

GroErr said:


> No, I have the Sun Systems 315w LEC, the main thing is the bulb is the same, that's what makes these things rock, regardless of what they call it. It's the 315w Philips Elite Agro CMH bulb that makes the magic happen, nice haul!


Not exactly...

The 860W CDM lamp runs on a magnetic ballast; great spectrum, very inexpensive cost of acquisition- but relatively poor efficiency. The smaller 315W LEC- yes the tech is basically the same- is a smaller version of the 860W CDM, only it's made to run on a special low frequency digital square wave ballast. This ballast is why they push 30% more light per watt. Its ability to run on such a ballast is the only special thing about the bulb, and in fact I believe I heard a rumor that the reason behind the small wattage is because they can't keep bigger lamps stable on digitals yet.


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## GroErr (Oct 9, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Not exactly...
> 
> The 860W CDM lamp runs on a magnetic ballast; great spectrum, very inexpensive cost of acquisition- but relatively poor efficiency. The smaller 315W LEC- yes the tech is basically the same- is a smaller version of the 860W CDM, only it's made to run on a special low frequency digital square wave ballast. This ballast is why they push 30% more light per watt. Its ability to run on such a ballast is the only special thing about the bulb, and in fact I believe I heard a rumor that the reason behind the small wattage is because they can't keep bigger lamps stable on digitals yet.


Good point, it's the combo of the Elite Agro and ballasts that can run it that provides the efficiency (also makes it more expensive). I can't remember where but I'd read more or less the same thing you're saying, they haven't been able to replicate that 315w efficiency in higher wattage lamps.


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## ttystikk (Oct 9, 2015)

GroErr said:


> Good point, it's the combo of the Elite Agro and ballasts that can run it that provides the efficiency (also makes it more expensive). I can't remember where but I'd read more or less the same thing you're saying, they haven't been able to replicate that 315w efficiency in higher wattage lamps.


They haven't been a able to build a lamp that can survive on a digital ballast at higher wattages. A subtle but potentially important distinction... 

I heard there was a startup that made a digital ballast for the 860W CDM but they went out of business, apparently because of warranty and lamp life issues.


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## GroErr (Oct 9, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> They haven't been a able to build a lamp that can survive on a digital ballast at higher wattages. A subtle but potentially important distinction...
> 
> I heard there was a startup that made a digital ballast for the 860W CDM but they went out of business, apparently because of warranty and lamp life issues.


True I should keep those articles, remember reading that somewhere when I was spec'ing them. I'd read another that mentioned they use a pulse start to fire them, it seemed like a requirement for the ballast as well. It'd be nice if someone figured it out for larger footprints, they're efficient and great spectrum. In my case and room size I like the 315's, I even use the 210w I have as a backup for the 315's the odd time, if I'm running a smaller footprint than my normal 3x3 or 3.5x3.5. Cheers.


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## ttystikk (Oct 9, 2015)

GroErr said:


> True I should keep those articles, remember reading that somewhere when I was spec'ing them. I'd read another that mentioned they use a pulse start to fire them, it seemed like a requirement for the ballast as well. It'd be nice if someone figured it out for larger footprints, they're efficient and great spectrum. In my case and room size I like the 315's, I even use the 210w I have as a backup for the 315's the odd time, if I'm running a smaller footprint than my normal 3x3 or 3.5x3.5. Cheers.


I like how your progression is going, good stuff.


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 9, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Not exactly...
> 
> The 860W CDM lamp runs on a magnetic ballast; great spectrum, very inexpensive cost of acquisition- but relatively poor efficiency. The smaller 315W LEC- yes the tech is basically the same- is a smaller version of the 860W CDM, only it's made to run on a special low frequency digital square wave ballast. This ballast is why they push 30% more light per watt. Its ability to run on such a ballast is the only special thing about the bulb, and in fact I believe I heard a rumor that the reason behind the small wattage is because they can't keep bigger lamps stable on digitals yet.


do you think they will make a higher square wave ballast for the 860 watt bulbs any time soon? why would a higher watt ballast/bulb make it unstable? i think it would be nice to have the 860 pushing 30% more light per watt, that bulb would easily cover my 4x6 table and much easier to have 1 lamp than 3..id want one if i had not already paid for the smaller 315's..

do you think the 860 cmh is comparable to a 1k hps? 5x5 coverage at 2ft from bulb?
personally i think the 2 315's may have given my 2 600 hps's a run for the money had i vegged longer and had a bigger root structure..im sure the 3 315's will produce just as well if not better than the 2 600's and with 215 less watts..


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## a senile fungus (Oct 9, 2015)

I'll be using a couple CMH for flowering here pretty soon guys so I'll be able to weigh in a little bit more.

IIRC Philips said that the pressures within the structure of the bulb were too high and that's why they safely cannot go over 315w, at least for now.


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## ttystikk (Oct 10, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> do you think they will make a higher square wave ballast for the 860 watt bulbs any time soon? why would a higher watt ballast/bulb make it unstable? i think it would be nice to have the 860 pushing 30% more light per watt, that bulb would easily cover my 4x6 table and much easier to have 1 lamp than 3..id want one if i had not already paid for the smaller 315's..
> 
> do you think the 860 cmh is comparable to a 1k hps? 5x5 coverage at 2ft from bulb?
> personally i think the 2 315's may have given my 2 600 hps's a run for the money had i vegged longer and had a bigger root structure..im sure the 3 315's will produce just as well if not better than the 2 600's and with 215 less watts..


They tried and the company making the ballasts went out of business- high failure rate on the lamps. @a senile fungus hit it in the head as to why.

I think the 860W CDM lamp is comparable to about 86% of an HPS lamp run on a magnetic ballast. Quality is clearly better, though. BTW, this also implies that higher CRI doesn't necessarily translate into higher yields, though it does improve quality. Finally, it's better than MH because it doesn't impose a yield penalty in return for that improved quality.


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 10, 2015)

just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on digital,digital dimmable and magnetic ballsts for hps/mh? i have all, im not a fan of the dimmable as using that feature lowers bulb life..i like that the digitals run both hps/mh bulbs but i find the fans for cooling are always going out, however i use the digitals most of the time..as for magnetic, they are my favorite especially the ones with a switch to run both hps and mh, yes a lttle bigger, a little buzzing sound, but air cooled so no issues and they last forever..i have a couple in the garage i keep incase the digitals go out. they have been kicked around, wet, etc.. ive had them since the 90's and they always fire up and work to my amazment..i cant tell you why i even bought the digitals and dig dimmables, maybe just because i always like to try the new or newer products..also as far as yield under dif ballasts,, my best yields wer under the old magnetics, but there could be many factors as to why,strains,grow type,etc that have notghing to do with the ballast i was using...anyways just my personal opinion,, whats your thoughts?


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## ttystikk (Oct 10, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on digital,digital dimmable and magnetic ballsts for hps/mh? i have all, im not a fan of the dimmable as using that feature lowers bulb life..i like that the digitals run both hps/mh bulbs but i find the fans for cooling are always going out, however i use the digitals most of the time..as for magnetic, they are my favorite especially the ones with a switch to run both hps and mh, yes a lttle bigger, a little buzzing sound, but air cooled so no issues and they last forever..i have a couple in the garage i keep incase the digitals go out. they have been kicked around, wet, etc.. ive had them since the 90's and they always fire up and work to my amazment..i cant tell you why i even bought the digitals and dig dimmables, maybe just because i always like to try the new or newer products..also as far as yield under dif ballasts,, my best yields wer under the old magnetics, but there could be many factors as to why,strains,grow type,etc that have notghing to do with the ballast i was using...anyways just my personal opinion,, whats your thoughts?


Magnetic is reliable, but inefficient. That's a deadly flaw. HPS on digital is powerful, but there are now more efficient options that can match the power- with much better spectrum. As you've probably seen from postings elsewhere, I'm a big fan of broad spectrum lighting. I'm over the need to buy bulbs all the Damn time, too.

In short, I'm predicting the death of HID lighting within 5 years as knowledge of the benefits and cost of COB LED continue to propagate through their respective industries.

Now- save your money and get to clickin' on over to the LED lighting section of this fine forum and start studying up on DIY COB LED fixtures. 

If you don't feel up to the task of building some yourself, commercially produced options featuring Vero 29, CXA3070 and even some CXB3590 are coming on the market. The meme (typo, but I gotta leave it in!) brand units are expensive but they'll last as long as their drivers if you get one with a decent quality chip (i.e. one from the short list above), which could be decades.


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 10, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Magnetic is reliable, but inefficient. That's a deadly flaw. HPS on digital is powerful, but there are now more efficient options that can match the power- with much better spectrum. As you've probably seen from postings elsewhere, I'm a big fan of broad spectrum lighting. I'm over the need to buy bulbs all the Damn time, too.
> 
> In short, I'm predicting the death of HID lighting within 5 years as knowledge of the benefits and cost of COB LED continue to propagate through their respective industries.
> 
> ...


led may be the future, however in my opinion as of now led is a waste of cash if you can NOT build your own.. a brand new good led bought today will be looked at as garbage in 2-3 years,, as they are always improving..pluss the very high up front cost of buying a good one to me just isnt worth the investment wile hps/mh/cmh's all produce quality yields of dank..DIY is deffinatly the golden ticket for led tech wright now,,and im unfortunatly NOT inclined.. not to mention there are alot of led's that are complete garbage and to those of us who dont know any better buy and throw away the money as a loss..PLEASE DONT GET ME WRONG! im very interested in led tech and i do believe in some years they will be the indoor lamp of choice,, but thats years away for the up front costs to come down, and the spectrum to be perfected..
i lost a bunch of money some years back buying the 1 watt diode panels, thought that spending $800.00,, it must be great!! i was dead wrong, that thing was complete garbage and i couldnt give it away in good concience. it was bad in veg and even worse in flower, even using it to supliment my hps was a waste of wattage.. so in conclusion you must really know what your paying for, if your like me and just going by what you hear is good,,stay away!! to go with led you had better know how they work,whats going in them, par,ppfd, coverage, and spectrum...led is either build your own, or buy at risk!! only my personal opinion,, once prices come down and im assured its not going to be an antique shortly after purchace,, i will definatly be buying one...


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## ttystikk (Oct 11, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> led may be the future, however in my opinion as of now led is a waste of cash if you can NOT build your own.. a brand new good led bought today will be looked at as garbage in 2-3 years,, as they are always improving..pluss the very high up front cost of buying a good one to me just isnt worth the investment wile hps/mh/cmh's all produce quality yields of dank..DIY is deffinatly the golden ticket for led tech wright now,,and im unfortunatly NOT inclined.. not to mention there are alot of led's that are complete garbage and to those of us who dont know any better buy and throw away the money as a loss..PLEASE DONT GET ME WRONG! im very interested in led tech and i do believe in some years they will be the indoor lamp of choice,, but thats years away for the up front costs to come down, and the spectrum to be perfected..
> i lost a bunch of money some years back buying the 1 watt diode panels, thought that spending $800.00,, it must be great!! i was dead wrong, that thing was complete garbage and i couldnt give it away in good concience. it was bad in veg and even worse in flower, even using it to supliment my hps was a waste of wattage.. so in conclusion you must really know what your paying for, if your like me and just going by what you hear is good,,stay away!! to go with led you had better know how they work,whats going in them, par,ppfd, coverage, and spectrum...led is either build your own, or buy at risk!! only my personal opinion,, once prices come down and im assured its not going to be an antique shortly after purchace,, i will definatly be buying one...


I wouldn't be saying what I said without some good supporting data. I've seen unbiased people run great grows with the new chips- something I never saw from the old blurple shit. I've seen specifications and comparisons and all that. I did my own investigating and I'm convinced enough to drop ten grand on a custom built COB LED array using CXB3590 chips. We will do some serious head to head testing and see what grows out of it.

You DID ask me what I thought, and I told you. I guess the next five years will prove which of us is right. Betting against me is risky business... LOL


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 11, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I wouldn't be saying what I said without some good supporting data. I've seen unbiased people run great grows with the new chips- something I never saw from the old blurple shit. I've seen specifications and comparisons and all that. I did my own investigating and I'm convinced enough to drop ten grand on a custom built COB LED array using CXB3590 chips. We will do some serious head to head testing and see what grows out of it.
> 
> You DID ask me what I thought, and I told you. I guess the next five years will prove which of us is right. Betting against me is risky business... LOL


i know,, you know your shit! 10 grand,,,wow,,wish i had that knid of cash..unfortunatly growing legally as a care giver, im lucky to make a profit..had i been good with money, id be sitting on a pretty nice pile from back in the 90's and early 2000's wen i was growing illegally, back then i was getting 400 an ounce, was single and lived like a king..i traveled, took weekends to vegas, amsterdam,mexico,cali,etc.. the money spent as fast as i made it..those wer the days! but i settled down,got married, have a son, and went legal because i love growing but didnt want my family in danger..if for some reason i got divorced, id jump wright back into it, move back to chicago and have lots of fun,id make lots of cash and spend it just as fast,,, but id be miserable.. ive come to enjoy living in the middle of nowere,fishing,hunting,4 wheeling,no traffic,no hussle and bussle of the city..i miss my friends that i talk to ocasionally, but most of them are married now too. i guess the past is the past, as with all of us the good times,and crazy shit is behind me..every few years a few buds come up here to go deer hunting, and hit the bar,, funny how we always reminice on the same stupid shit we used to do, fighting,fucking,drinking,laughing,drugs,im sure you know how it is...the week turns into 1 long drunken, hazy,night..but my stomach hurts for days from all the laughter, about as long as the headache and hang over.lol. i guess i went off subject? oh well, ever want to go hunting your welcome to stay here...were was i?? oh yah LED's!!!!lol


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## ttystikk (Oct 11, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> i know,, you know your shit! 10 grand,,,wow,,wish i had that knid of cash..unfortunatly growing legally as a care giver, im lucky to make a profit..had i been good with money, id be sitting on a pretty nice pile from back in the 90's and early 2000's wen i was growing illegally, back then i was getting 400 an ounce, was single and lived like a king..i traveled, took weekends to vegas, amsterdam,mexico,cali,etc.. the money spent as fast as i made it..those wer the days! but i settled down,got married, have a son, and went legal because i love growing but didnt want my family in danger..if for some reason i got divorced, id jump wright back into it, move back to chicago and have lots of fun,id make lots of cash and spend it just as fast,,, but id be miserable.. ive come to enjoy living in the middle of nowere,fishing,hunting,4 wheeling,no traffic,no hussle and bussle of the city..i miss my friends that i talk to ocasionally, but most of them are married now too. i guess the past is the past, as with all of us the good times,and crazy shit is behind me..every few years a few buds come up here to go deer hunting, and hit the bar,, funny how we always reminice on the same stupid shit we used to do, fighting,fucking,drinking,laughing,drugs,im sure you know how it is...the week turns into 1 long drunken, hazy,night..but my stomach hurts for days from all the laughter, about as long as the headache and hang over.lol. i guess i went off subject? oh well, ever want to go hunting your welcome to stay here...were was i?? oh yah LED's!!!!lol


Great ramble! Love it and you never know, I'm prone to taking people up on offers to visit.

To be crystal clear, so nobody gets the wrong idea, I'm running a growing technology laboratory and equipment testbed facility. I'm allllllll legal, tax ID and everything, and I'll be doing basic research on the utility and efficacy of large COB LED arrays in commercial settings. This is the next logical step from similar research conducted using various HID options. The lab itself also has all the necessary certifications to carry out my work without interference from law enforcement. In fact, they've already seen it.

If and when it makes sense to advertise my shit to the general public, RIU will be on the short list of those to contact first. Until then, no company names, no conversations about prices, I'm soooooo not ready to take orders and ship product! I'm still trying to figure out if and how well the shit actually WORKS first!


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 12, 2015)

i like it,, i wish more lights would be performance tested by growers before being sold and told " they are the best!"...hope all goes well, it would be nice to buy a lamp and know you wont have to upgrade or replace anytime in the near or rellitivly distant future...

can say im really pleased with the cmh so far,,if it lives up to being interchangable with a 600 watt hps remains to be seen, but i would say if choosing between a 400 watt hps/mh or 315 cmh,, id go with the 315 any day of the week!!!


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## ttystikk (Oct 12, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> i like it,, i wish more lights would be performance tested by growers before being sold and told " they are the best!"...hope all goes well, it would be nice to buy a lamp and know you wont have to upgrade or replace anytime in the near or rellitivly distant future...
> 
> can say im really pleased with the cmh so far,,if it lives up to being interchangable with a 600 watt hps remains to be seen, but i would say if choosing between a 400 watt hps/mh or 315 cmh,, id go with the 315 any day of the week!!!


From what I've seen so far, I think that three 315W LEC lights would be roughly equivalent to two 600W HPS lamps. That's better spectrum and 25% more output. Nice!


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 12, 2015)

GroErr said:


> No, I have the Sun Systems 315w LEC, the main thing is the bulb is the same, that's what makes these things rock, regardless of what they call it. It's the 315w Philips Elite Agro CMH bulb that makes the magic happen, nice haul!


can you post a pic of your grow under the cmh lamps? did you ever run a comparison against hps? if so what wer your results?


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 12, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> From what I've seen so far, I think that three 315W LEC lights would be roughly equivalent to two 600W HPS lamps. That's better spectrum and 25% more output. Nice!


im in agreement at this time,, im fairly confident this next run will easily get 1200 grams under 945 watts cmh...
i also believe had i vegged longer and had covered the table with just the 2 lamps id had yielded at least 100 grams more than i did,, if so it would have put 630 watts cmh damn near a 1k hps..maybe i should redo the first run with 2 315 watt cmh's with a longer veg and covered table,,,but not till after the next 3 tests runs,,we will see how it goes...


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## GroErr (Oct 13, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> can you post a pic of your grow under the cmh lamps? did you ever run a comparison against hps? if so what wer your results?


I post regularly in my thread (sig), here's a shot of my current grow. I'm typically running 2 of the 315's offset by 3-4 weeks perpetual. I haven't run hps indoor, when I went indoor I decided to use more efficient tech, I run some LED COBs in a small 2x2 tent as well mainly for breeding projects. My son's been running hps for a few years so I have a reference there. imo these are somewhere between a 400 and 600. Cheers.


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 15, 2015)

GroErr said:


> I post regularly in my thread (sig), here's a shot of my current grow. I'm typically running 2 of the 315's offset by 3-4 weeks perpetual. I haven't run hps indoor, when I went indoor I decided to use more efficient tech, I run some LED COBs in a small 2x2 tent as well mainly for breeding projects. My son's been running hps for a few years so I have a reference there. imo these are somewhere between a 400 and 600. Cheers.
> 
> View attachment 3520363


what strain are you running? also whats the best yielding strain youve run that is not just a producer but great medicine too?

just bought more seeds, budzilla,incredible bulk,violletta,spliffs blueberry,black skulls five 0 and finally was able to find nirvanas misty.. i bought 20 regular misty seeds, it was an all time fav of mine back in the late 90's to mid 2000's. my best yielding,dank was nigeria shiva,,cant find it anymore,,lost her back in 99 after running her for 4 years..


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## GroErr (Oct 15, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> what strain are you running? also whats the best yielding strain youve run that is not just a producer but great medicine too?
> 
> just bought more seeds, budzilla,incredible bulk,violletta,spliffs blueberry,black skulls five 0 and finally was able to find nirvanas misty.. i bought 20 regular misty seeds, it was an all time fav of mine back in the late 90's to mid 2000's. my best yielding,dank was nigeria shiva,,cant find it anymore,,lost her back in 99 after running her for 4 years..


I've been working on a couple of DIY strains so a lot of pheno hunts on the go, the one cross is my best quality and producer in one. On average I have various (7) strains going and cycle them for meds with different purposes. Right now in the above pic I have Jack The Ripper, Blue Pyramid, and 3x phenos of a DIY cross of Jack The Ripper x Blueberry I call Blue Ripper. On deck I have some Harlequin (CBD), Blue Dream, JTR, various clones/phenos of this DIY Blue Ripper, a few F2 seedlings of another DIY strain which is a cross of PPP x Blueberry.

The biggest producers in the current line up are the Blue Dream (HSO), the original Blue Ripper winner pheno that started my breeding project, and one pheno of the PPP x Blueberry DIY cross. All 3 can produce ~1 oz. per gallon of medium with some training. As far as quality meds, considering punch/flavour/effects I'd put the Blue Dream at the low end of an average quality strain that produces well, good taste & smell but not enough punch for my liking. The Blue Ripper cross is fire, like JTR in the mid twenties for THC, a nice fruit/hashy flavour, real crowd pleaser for those with high tolerance, it gets you shit-faced and smells/tastes good. I have F2's to hunt through for a very nice pheno of that PPP x Blueberry which produced in that 1 oz./gallon range and was also fire but produced more of a body stone.

Have some new seedlings coming up as well, will likely replace the Blue Dream now that I have a better quality producer in the Blue Ripper. Trying some Fire OG and just popped 5x Fireballs which I've been wanting to try for a while, neither expected to be huge producers, just hunting for a quality pheno form each of these.


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 19, 2015)

Veg. closet completed!! Flower table thirty plants receiving 18/6 light sched. until they are taller. 
Closet completely light proof from flower room. Turned out very well. 
3 315 watt CDLs = 945 watts total for this run.

Hope you guys like it. Any comments or feedback welcome! These are the best pics i could get since im not great with tech!


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 19, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Oct 19, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Oct 19, 2015)




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## GroErr (Oct 20, 2015)

Looking good @TheChemist77. How large is that area you're covering with the 3x 315w CDL's? I cover up to 3.5' x 7', typically 3ft. H with 2x 315w Sun Systems LEC's. Best yield so far has come from a single 315w covering 3.5' x 3.5' x 3ft H


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 23, 2015)

i have 3, 315 watt cdl's over a 4ftx 6ft table, actual grow area is a few inches shy of 4x6.. i try to keep the lamps about 2ft from canopy..

the veg closet is 3ft x 7 ft in it a 36 site clone king and a 2ftx4ft f&d table.covered by a 400 watt mh and a 150 watt 6500k cfl. the home built cloner is in a 3ftx3ft area that will get a door put on and in time will be a mega garden(2ftx2ft f&d by hydrofarm) for creating s1's and breeding..that area is also covered by a 150 watt cfl.. in the main veg i may replace the 400 watt mh with a 315 watt cmh once the new seedlings show sex..so far it looks like 1 of the 2 purple#1's are female, the papaya i think is male, the 2 top 44, 1 big bomb, and 1 super bud are all feminized seeds..all need time to be mature enough to clone...


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## GroErr (Oct 23, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> i have 3, 315 watt cdl's over a 4ftx 6ft table, actual grow area is a few inches shy of 4x6.. i try to keep the lamps about 2ft from canopy..


Thought that table was around there, that's a lot of CMH for 4x 6, you could remove the middle unit and still get great coverage/yield, at 2ft. the spread from those will cover the area well. Would be interesting to see the difference in yield between running 2 and 3 over that area.


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 23, 2015)

GroErr said:


> Thought that table was around there, that's a lot of CMH for 4x 6, you could remove the middle unit and still get great coverage/yield, at 2ft. the spread from those will cover the area well. Would be interesting to see the difference in yield between running 2 and 3 over that area.


we will see in 8 weeks roughly,, last run was under 2 and yield was roughly 800 grams, well over a gpw.. this run 3 lamps, pluss table is covered for bigger roots and a longer veg time.. im hoping to get around 1200 grams.. last run was 36 plants, this run is 30 plants..
i may go back to running only 2 lamps after the testing is complete,, all depends on total yield..that first run was my first try with cmh, i wish i had veged longer and maybe covered the table, now im getting to know how the plants respond to the lamps better,, so i should get better and better if all goes well..
i highly doubt the 1,000 watt hps will yield as well as the cmh's but to get reliable results i got to try and see what happens..


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## GroErr (Oct 24, 2015)

Will be interesting to see what the weight is, your grow's the first I've seen running close to 1000w of these 315's, should be a good haul for sure


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 28, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Oct 29, 2015)

ok, 30 plants all have 2 weeks of veg now.. should i trim lower branches?? or just leave them be? ill switch to 12/12 on nov.1st.. can not wait to see how this run compares to the last...any info or comments would be appreciated before flip,,or any time really...
just recieved another pack of seeds,, view all my seeds at.. page 6 and 7

https://www.rollitup.org/t/original-breeders-packaging.878262/page-6


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## GroErr (Oct 29, 2015)

Looking good, they should fill that space well once they're flipped. Not much for pruning myself, only enough to maintain airflow/circulation and avoid mould issues later. Nice stack of seeds!


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 1, 2015)

if 112 grams= 1 qp, 1 qp sells for $1,000(and thats a very good price)
448 grams= 1lb, 1lb=$4,000 or say 3,500 w/ discount for buying bulk,
800 grams= 1lb,3qp, + 15 grams,,, equates to roughly,,$6,500 per run under 2 315 watt cmh, which easily pays off the lamps, 500 a piece,4 lamps=2grand, electric bill= $400 a month,2 months=$800, nutrients,water,rockwool, miscalanious =$150.00 per run.
$2,950.00 cost for the 1st run, $6,500.00 - 2950=$3,540.oo pure profit, every run after lights paid off=$5,540.oo profit per run... 

id say these lamps are a good investment!!!

any comments?? whats your price per qp? or lb?


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## GroErr (Nov 1, 2015)

Our prices up here have always been lower. I have one buddy who takes QP's of whatever I don't use at $600 year round which is a decent price up here. Regardless, the investment pays off quick on these, a couple of rounds at worst and they're paid off. Then 2-3 times the bulb life, lower hydro bills and better production. Good investment no matter how you look at it.


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 5, 2015)

GroErr said:


> Our prices up here have always been lower. I have one buddy who takes QP's of whatever I don't use at $600 year round which is a decent price up here. Regardless, the investment pays off quick on these, a couple of rounds at worst and they're paid off. Then 2-3 times the bulb life, lower hydro bills and better production. Good investment no matter how you look at it.


600 a qp? wow, i used to get 400 an ounce,, but now with so many people growing prices have dropped..so $275.00 per ounce, or 1k a qp is a really good price for quality weed.. there is an awfull lot of people growing and selling sub par stuff. being a care giver, im really kind of non profit but i occasionally sell a bit to family.just to help pay bills.
plants flipped to 12/12 on the 1st, ill post pix every week till finish, then dry weight totals..all is well


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## GroErr (Nov 5, 2015)

Yeah, in the good old days most of our guerilla grows ended up south of the border, it was worth it with the difference in price. An oz. still goes for $200-$250 up here but it depends where you are, Toronto area's probably more expensive than other provinces/cities. I grow most of it for myself and a couple of patients, in my age group there's always someone I know who's battling cancer. My buddy takes what's left and that covers the costs which is good enough for me. If I can help a cancer patient that's my reward now. I went through it myself and I'm past the 5-year mark just recently, it's time to give back.. It's my only medicine, no pharma/prescription shit, it works. Cheers.


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 6, 2015)

only 5 days since flip,, im amazed at the growth on these ladies!! they are really filling in..
i had planted some seeds a month or so ago,, i now have 1 female big bomb(really nice structure),2 home grown fantaseed topp 44 females(short n stocky), 2 purple#1's both look to be female but not 100% sure yet(tall n lanky,still green), 1 papaya also not sure on sex, and 1 super bud female by green house seeds,,only 3 weeks old,not mature yet.. i just started spraying several of my strain clone moms with tierista mist to make S1's.. anyone have any experience with the tierista mist? ive always made my own silver spray before so this is new to me..ill post some pix of my veg room and seed moms along with the week 1 pix of flower room..
i have it all set up to take clones for the next run,so NO down time..ill take clones when the flowering room is 5 weeks in, that way clones will have 12 days to root, then 2 weeks to veg and same day i harvest ill clean the room n table, change rez,switch lighting and put in 30 plants for the next run under the 1,000 watt hps.. i also plan to change my veg room lamp from a 400 watt mh to a 315 watt cmh lamp..


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## GroErr (Nov 6, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> only 5 days since flip,, im amazed at the growth on these ladies!! they are really filling in..
> i had planted some seeds a month or so ago,, i now have 1 female big bomb(really nice structure),2 home grown fantaseed topp 44 females(short n stocky), 2 purple#1's both look to be female but not 100% sure yet(tall n lanky,still green), 1 papaya also not sure on sex, and 1 super bud female by green house seeds,,only 3 weeks old,not mature yet.. i just started spraying several of my strain clone moms with tierista mist to make S1's.. anyone have any experience with the tierista mist? ive always made my own silver spray before so this is new to me..ill post some pix of my veg room and seed moms along with the week 1 pix of flower room..
> i have it all set up to take clones for the next run,so NO down time..ill take clones when the flowering room is 5 weeks in, that way clones will have 12 days to root, then 2 weeks to veg and same day i harvest ill clean the room n table, change rez,switch lighting and put in 30 plants for the next run under the 1,000 watt hps.. i also plan to change my veg room lamp from a 400 watt mh to a 315 watt cmh lamp..


Nice, haven't done any S1's but I may break down and make some to keep a couple of killer strain/phenos I have going. Interested to see how that Tiresias mist works, easy enough to make CS but it's just another thing that'll take some time so if this works as advertised I may just grab some myself. Sounds like you're liking these 315's, I wish I could handle the 4200k in veg I'd grab another light, just don't have the room in the tent or cabinet I veg in.


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 7, 2015)

GroErr said:


> Nice, haven't done any S1's but I may break down and make some to keep a couple of killer strain/phenos I have going. Interested to see how that Tiresias mist works, easy enough to make CS but it's just another thing that'll take some time so if this works as advertised I may just grab some myself. Sounds like you're liking these 315's, I wish I could handle the 4200k in veg I'd grab another light, just don't have the room in the tent or cabinet I veg in.


i called boulder lamp to ask about different kelvin bulbs for my lamps, they said the 3,000k is the only bulb for my lamp.. $80.00 a bulb isnt bad cause it lasts 2-3 years. i thought there was a higher k bulb for veg, guess i was mistaken or is it only for the sun system cmh lamps? im really happy with the lamps so far,,,i considered scrapping the 1k hps comparison run.. but i feel its an important run for the hole comparison test.. w/out it im just comparing the 945 watt cmh to my last 1200 watt 2 600watt hps run, i looked back in my log book and found under the 2 600's i was running skunk#1 and northern lights 36 plants total dry weight yield after 1 week of veg & 8 weeks bloom was 1,447 grams so just over a gpw..looking back my best yield per watt to date was under 1 400hps n 1 400mh over a 4x4 table w 25 misty plants w 1,221 grams 1.5gpw...that was in 2004..


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## GroErr (Nov 7, 2015)

Some nice weights there, will be interesting to see what these 315's pull. If the one you have is a Philips Elite Agro which I'm pretty sure it is, they do have a 4200k bulb. Boulder may not know about it or sell it but they're available. here's a link to it on _Growershouse_.


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 10, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Nov 10, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Nov 10, 2015)

above pix
seed moms big bomb, purple#1 & #2, 2 top 44's, all females..
veg room 
mega garden females to make S1's.


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 11, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Nov 11, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Nov 11, 2015)

as you can see the plants have easily doubled in height in 1st week of bloom.. they have branched out well to fill in table..
should i clip some of the lower branches???????? i try to keep the lamps 2 feet above canopy, the intake and exaughst run on a thermostat set at 72 degree f..so its never above 73f and durring lights off it never gets below 65f.. so less than a 10 degree diference from light to dark..im also trying to achieve a negative air pressure in the room my intake is a 250 cfm inline fan pulling cool air into room wile my exaughst is a 400 cfm inline pulling the air near the ceiling out the 6inch chimney duct..
week 1 plants wer getting general hydroponics flora nova grow at 3/4 tsp per gallon, i cleaned and changed the rez on nov 7th plants are now getting 50% grow, 50% bloom at 1 tsp per gallon.. next week they will go to 100% bloom..


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## GroErr (Nov 11, 2015)

Yeah, they're in the stretch, looking good! The lower branch thing is a personal choice. I go by the plant/strain/shape, if I can get light to the bottom and enough airflow it stays. But I also use all the popcorn/trim for meds. Some claim that removing the larf re-directs energy to bigger buds up top but idk about that, haven't seen any science or results to back that up. I do the same thing, gradual change in feeds through the stretch, most of the stretch, until they start throwing flowers is vegetative, makes sense they can use heavier veg nutes during that period.


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 16, 2015)

Week 3 Bloom.....


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 16, 2015)

Dutch Passion Purple #1 seed mom......

 Dutch Passion Purple #1 seed mom #2


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## HeartIandhank (Nov 16, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> The truth is that as long as roots aren't flooded for several hours or overnight, oxygenating the nutrient solution in flood and drain systems will only encourage growths in the res, where you don't want them; pythium, algae, etc.


That is strange.. I would have thought it to be the opposite for pythium and other nasty fungi.
I didn't think pythium actually grew in water. I know they say it can be in rivers and ponds but I thought it was actually in the sediment of the river/pond and not in the water.


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 16, 2015)




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## GroErr (Nov 16, 2015)

Looking great in there, look like they exploded in the last couple of weeks


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## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2015)

HeartIandhank said:


> That is strange.. I would have thought it to be the opposite for pythium and other nasty fungi.
> I didn't think pythium actually grew in water. I know they say it can be in rivers and ponds but I thought it was actually in the sediment of the river/pond and not in the water.


Never seen anyone running ebb n flood needing to use an airstone to get good results. The air gets to the roots as soon as the water recedes, so they aren't drowning.


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## HeartIandhank (Nov 16, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Never seen anyone running ebb n flood needing to use an airstone to get good results. The air gets to the roots as soon as the water recedes, so they aren't drowning.


with synthetic fed eb n flow.. yeah, probably not really necessary.
I didn't think aeration would actually cause problems though.. especially pythium.

My eb n flow are all aquaponic and/or organic. I run airstones in all of them. The water gets funky if i don't.. I don't do water changes more than once a year though in the hydro.. with the aquaponics, I've never done a water change, the oldest setup is about 5 years old... these are non mj gardens I'm talking here.


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## HeartIandhank (Nov 16, 2015)

^BTW.. the pic a few pages back of your garden was rad. Nice setup man.


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## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2015)

HeartIandhank said:


> with synthetic fed eb n flow.. yeah, probably not really necessary.
> I didn't think aeration would actually cause problems though.. especially pythium.
> 
> My eb n flow are all aquaponic and/or organic. I run airstones in all of them. The water gets funky if i don't.. I don't do water changes more than once a year though.. these are non mj gardens I'm talking here.


Aquaponics requires oxygenation to keep fish alive, lol. I've long since switched to using waterfalls to feed my plants, I picked up the practice from aquarium keepers as being a better way to aerate water. They're right, and it might help your fish too.


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## HeartIandhank (Nov 16, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Aquaponics requires oxygenation to keep fish alive, lol. I've long since switched to using waterfalls to feed my plants, I picked up the practice from aquarium keepers as being a better way to aerate water. They're right, and it might help your fish too.


4 Aquaponic systems and 2 flood and drain (no fish) is what I run.. all get airstones, fish or no. The non fish mostly just get teas. Growth is far from explosive.. but it produces food.


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## HeartIandhank (Nov 16, 2015)

But actually.. you dont need airstones for the fish i use. Koi and perch. Especially the koi do not need them. I just use the airstones to keep the tanks from getting smelly and to let the organics do their thing. You could say that keeps them alive though, in a way.


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## HeartIandhank (Nov 16, 2015)

I'll stop mudding the thread. sorry.

But hey OP. Keep up the good work dude. I'm liking the thread. Super curious about the CDL lighting.

I think 3 of those 315s over a 6x4 is going to do some very good things.. I look forward to seeing your results. I think many people are.


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## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2015)

HeartIandhank said:


> 4 Aquaponic systems and 2 flood and drain (no fish) is what I run.. all get airstones, fish or no. The non fish mostly just get teas. Growth is far from explosive.. but it produces food.
> 
> You don't need airstones actually for the fish I use.


I can't wait to start playing with my food. I want to raise fish, ducks and plants on plants grown by fish n duck poop. And eat duck eggs and fish. And occasionally ducks. I think I could convert my old hot tub into a fish farm and duck pond. Whenever the water temperature gets too warm, I could just hit the jet pump for a few minutes! Ya think it would aerate okay too?! LOL


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## HeartIandhank (Nov 16, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I can't wait to start playing with my food. I want to raise fish, ducks and plants on plants grown by fish n duck poop. And eat duck eggs and fish. And occasionally ducks. I think I could convert my old hot tub into a fish farm and duck pond. Whenever the water temperature gets too warm, I could just hit the jet pump for a few minutes! Ya think it would aerate okay too?! LOL


haha. that would be pretty rad man. hydro powered on fish poo is so fucking easy. effortless, really. I don't do a damn thing but feed the fish, plant seedlings, and pick veggies. It is just that easy if you use a hardy fish.

You grow with the cdl too, right? What do you think about them?


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## ttystikk (Nov 16, 2015)

HeartIandhank said:


> haha. that would be pretty rad man. hydro powered on fish poo is so fucking easy. effortless, really. I don't do a damn thing but feed the fish, plant seedlings, and pick veggies. It is just that easy if you use a hardy fish.
> 
> You grow with the cdl too, right? What do you think about them?


I grow with its bigger cousin, the 860W CDM. Mine run on magnetic ballasts, which makes them substantially less efficient than these.

Otherwise they're similar, especially in terms of spectrum.


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 17, 2015)

just talked to boulder lamp,, in feb they will be coming out with 315 watt cdl lamps that include led.. they are in the testing stage now by feb they should be perfected with an hour of uv led's coming on ,,or is it ir? cant remember but looks really cool, pluss the led's around the cmh reflector will spread the coverage of the lamps to almost 5x5 at 2ft above canopy...im thinking about buying the led ad ons for 2 of my fixtures... they cant say too much as they are in the testing stage but go to boulderlamp.com and see the pix of cdl+led...


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 17, 2015)

also states the ad on led prevent mold and pests....i beleive different colored led's will be available for veg or bloom?? what do you think ty? please take a look or call for info as you know way more than me on led tech.. id like to hear what u think


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## ttystikk (Nov 17, 2015)

UV LED could be a good thing. Not sure how well it works, I'm not an LED expert.

@SupraSPL what do you think of this? Is there a good chip choice for UVB on the market? What's your opinion of such a light, paired with 315W CMH lamps?

For that matter, how much and how available ARE such UVB emitting LED chips?! LOL


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## GroErr (Nov 17, 2015)

Interesting, not enough detail in their brochures on their recommendations, not a lot different than what Indagro has done with their induction lights for a few years. But they are including both 660 and IR which is different. I do this already using separate units using 630/660 prior to lights-on and an IR 730nm initiator after lights out. Not sold on the supposed UV benefits, and these Elite Agro's already have quite a bit of UV(A) in their spectrum. After a few rounds of doing this (630/660/730nm) with the Elite Agro's though, I'm not sold on benefits with these Elite Agro bulbs. Although it's been difficult to gage I haven't seen any noticeable benefits in either yields or quality. My thinking is these bulbs already have spectrum in that range which is applied throughout the light cycle, and frankly, I think the 315w/3100k's did better on their own. They may have better benefits with other tech like single colour COBs (e.g. 3000k) where the spectrum range isn't as spread out and wide as the Elite Agro's.


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## SupraSPL (Nov 17, 2015)

Last I checked, UVB LEDs were still very expensive but a work in progress. UV LEDs are interesting though (especially UVC for drinking water sterilization and recirculating air in homes/buses/airplanes etc) and may have potential for _experimentation_ in our gardens. UVA and UVB can stimulate "natural sunscreen" in plants. Like most harmful things, they tend to be beneficial in small amounts (hormesis).

That said I think that growers stand to gain by addressing lamp efficiency, canopy PPFD and canopy temperature. Tweaking spectrum is not something I see as a low hanging fruit and not something I recommend that we spend resources on at this point other than experimentally. Top shelf meds with mind blowing cannabinoid and terpene profiles are produced without UVA, UVB or IR so no worries there 

From this 2012 article:
Beyond these applications, UV-B radiation is known to have beneficial health properties including the natural synthesis of vitamin D in humans who are exposed to sunlight. UV-B also accelerates the production of polyphenols in certain leafy vegetables such as red lettuce. Polyphenols are believed to have antioxidant qualities. “Generally these plants are grown in greenhouses today, which intentionally filter out the UV portion of the spectrum in order to maximize plant growth. Interestingly, we have evidence that when those plants are exposed to UV-B LEDs a short time before harvest, their polyphenol content is boosted without compromising plant mass,” explained Cary Eskow, global director of advanced LEDs and illumination for Avnet Electronics Marketing in Phoenix, AZ, which distributes UV LEDs. He continued “This is a novel method for increasing the appeal of some foods without using chemicals. Polyphenols also have received attention due to their purported anticarcinogenic, antiproliferative and antimutagenic properties.”


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## SupraSPL (Nov 17, 2015)

I have wondered if occasional doses of UVA/UVB in veg might affect the epigenetics of a keeper. From the perspective of a keeper clone, it spends many years in veg and then it suddenly spends a short 8 weeks in flowering. So it makes sense that the epigenetics activated by the plant's environment during veg _could_ have a significant effect during flower, even though the conditions have changed in the flower space.


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## HeartIandhank (Nov 17, 2015)

Have you tried supplementing UV, ttystick? What has you doubting it?

Supplementing UV with T5 is very affordable. . The tests showing benefits from UV on indoor MJ go back to the 80s.. it's been shown time and time again since then as well.
And it isn't just increased thc, resin and thcv. But also a more complete genetic expression. Making your herb more unique and expressing traits it
developed to protect itself from problems like fungus, disease, pests, etc..
The question that is still up in the air is if it is UVA, UVB, or both. There are people claiming all 3.
But if all you want is increased potency you don't need to run uv all through flower. Just 6 hrs per day for the final 2 wks has shown to have the same effect on potency as running all through veg and flower.

I spent 140 bucks to supplement UV over a 6x4 garden along with 2 600 hps. I'm on my first grow with it right now.. I'll have more to say on it after i run a couple harvests with it.. iI tried using some 10k metal halides but i didnt get an even spread of a good complete spectrum.. instead patches of high peaks spread through the garden. not ideal

The average daylight spectrum is made up of 3% UVA and .15% UVB.. I see a lot of people claiming it is all UVB.. I suspect it is more about UVA.

I am a bit bias towards recreating nature in the grow room though. I am trying to move towards being hospitable to my plants as opposed to trying to squeeze every bit of production I can out of them. So far, i'm liking the results. Spectrum is what I'm putting my efforts into right now. Wondering if these CDL lights are going to be a piece of the puizzle.

Im avoiding LED for now. They aren't buiilt to last. The technology is too expensive. AND, the lighting industry is doubling the price on the hydro industry. I heard it from the mouth of a manufacturer.. They would sell the same light to residential or commercial for half what they sell to a hydro store. Cost to make it makes no difference. Just a straight up double price if it is marketed toward gardeners. BULLSHIT!.


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## ttystikk (Nov 17, 2015)

@HeartlandHank I did not say I didn't believe in UV supplementation. I said I didn't know how it would work from the height most people run their hoods.

I'm of quite the opposite opinion from yourself. I believe that COB LED is the revolution we've been waiting for- and that the DIY crowd can get in early for once!


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## HeartIandhank (Nov 17, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> @HeartlandHank I did not say I didn't believe in UV supplementation. I said I didn't know how it would work from the height most people run their hoods.
> 
> I'm of quite the opposite opinion from yourself. I believe that COB LED is the revolution we've been waiting for- and that the DIY crowd can get in early for once!


I've heard a lot of LED DIY chatter lately.. Is it really that easy?

See that is different all together. And Im not saying LED is not good. Im just saying that I am too stubborn to buy a light that I know would be sold for 1/2 the price if not for the market im in. It is a matter of principal..

I was skeptical of LED.. then I had a chat with a manufacturer and became way more skeptical of the folks making these lights. DIY though.. hell yeah.

Its not the LED technology im skeptical of.. it is the people making and selling them.


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## HeartIandhank (Nov 17, 2015)

We had a guy who works for an LED company come into our nursery buying products to do a grow test with his lights..

We had to explain to this guy why using a soilless mix alone, with no fertilizers added is not going to be a good way to test out his lights.

He was so stuck on the idea of not having any outside influence aside from the light that we couldnt explain to him that the plant needs food.. And this was the guy who was testing and selling their lights.

I won't mention the name.. but it is 1 of 3 led manufacturers based in Austin, TX..This company makes Horticulture lighting.. and the guy in charge of testing the lights has absolutely no clue of even the most basic botany. 

1 of the other 2 companies was the guy who I met at a hydro store.. that guy was even more clueless.. 

The third in Austin.. is ilumitex.. i hear they make decent lights.


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## ttystikk (Nov 17, 2015)

HeartIandhank said:


> I've heard a lot of LED DIY chatter lately.. Is it really that easy?
> 
> See that is different all together. And Im not saying LED is not good. Im just saying that I am too stubborn to buy a light that I know would be sold for 1/2 the price if not for the market im in. It is a matter of principal..
> 
> ...


The blurple panels are the ones to stay away from. Look for Vero 29 and Cree 3070 chips, and especially at the CXB3590, this one is becoming the workhorse of the DIY COB growth movement.

There's a whole slew of new LED companies coming out with the new stuff. Time will sort the good business models from the bad ones.


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## HeartIandhank (Nov 17, 2015)

I think the problem is that these lighting companies hear that these growers are paying STUPID money for LED lights.. and they cant refuse but to get in on the thievery..

You know about Spectrum Kings? I hear good things..

I'm pretty capable in many ways.. But I see making my own LEDs taking a huge effort for myself.
I'm lurking for now..


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## ttystikk (Nov 17, 2015)

HeartIandhank said:


> I think the problem is that these lighting companies hear that these growers are paying STUPID money for LED lights.. and they cant refuse but to get in on the thievery..
> 
> You know about Spectrum Kings? I hear good things..
> 
> ...


Lurk in the LED forums. You'll find out quickly that spectrum king and mars LEDs are pretty universally reviled.


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## borbor (Nov 17, 2015)

Thinking myself about DIYing more leds, I just looked at that spectrum king website, they say they use cree but they don't say what diodes, dubious, I don't like it based on that.


...haha just saw that message from ttystick


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## HeartIandhank (Nov 17, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Lurk in the LED forums. You'll find out quickly that spectrum king and mars LEDs are pretty universally reviled.


Typical.. it is all the rave and it blows 

I love the results I get with HPS.. I just want to see if I can improve them. That is what I like about using T5 supplementing. There are an endless number of bulbs that I can cheaply tweak my spectrum with while still getting at least the killer results I have been getting with HPS since the 90s.

I don't wanna overhaul.. just tweak.. but i am pretty interested in these CDL, cmh, whatever you call 'em.

You see the guy on RIU with 50,000 sq ft of 315s? That is just crazy.. that was what got me looking into them more. If someone with experience went to the trouble and expense of filling 50k sq ft with 315w bulbs there HAS to be something to them..

The 860 might be more of what I'm looking for though.. I've done 250s, 400s, 600s and 1ks.. 600s are no question the bulb for me.. I can't see myself moving down.. though with no experience I can't say for sure if the 315s are really "moving down:".


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## ttystikk (Nov 17, 2015)

I'm not interested in overhauls, either; I'm after revolution. IDGAF who's running what bulb anymore, I've seen the promised land and it's lit with COB LEDs!


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 18, 2015)

boulderlamp.com cdl+led lamp icludes uv a, uv b and uv c from what i gather,, the info is on the site


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 18, 2015)

HeartIandhank said:


> Typical.. it is all the rave and it blows
> 
> I love the results I get with HPS.. I just want to see if I can improve them. That is what I like about using T5 supplementing. There are an endless number of bulbs that I can cheaply tweak my spectrum with while still getting at least the killer results I have been getting with HPS since the 90s.
> 
> ...


i ran hps for many many years and both hps and mh,,, so far im pleased with the cdl or cmh and i feel that the cmh's will give me a higher gpw than hps or both in time.. pluss im saving on my electric bills already which is a major plus...


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## dangledo (Nov 18, 2015)

this and groerr 's thread helped me confirm an order I just put in for an lec. ive been looking around the led section for a few weeks now, and it seems like there is ANOTHER new cob on the horizon. I'm also weary of the producers of these new led's. had greengene had a unit in stock, Id have probably jumped on that, seeing how GG is putting on quite a show with the led's. haven't saw an led manufacturer using the 3590's(? @ttystikk ), and the area 51's seem to be driven to hard, few others are using the cxa's. others using the cxb's, nothing seems to be ready to go out the door. needed something somewhat quick, lec it was...


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## GroErr (Nov 18, 2015)

dangledo said:


> this and groerr 's thread helped me confirm an order I just put in for an lec. ive been looking around the led section for a few weeks now, and it seems like there is ANOTHER new cob on the horizon. I'm also weary of the producers of these new led's. had greengene had a unit in stock, Id have probably jumped on that, seeing how GG is putting on quite a show with the led's. haven't saw an led manufacturer using the 3590's(? @ttystikk ), and the area 51's seem to be driven to hard, few others are using the cxa's. others using the cxb's, nothing seems to be ready to go out the door. needed something somewhat quick, lec it was...


Hey @dangledo, nice to hear. you'll grow some nice flowers with these and they're less expensive per watt, with high efficiency. When I grabbed the first one it was much the same decision, I was considering switching to LED's but there was nothing readily available at the time, I didn't have the time or cycles to build my own, and I had a cycle that needed to be flipped to 12/12. So I ordered the LEC and a few days later I had it running. Bought a second one a couple of months later after seeing the results of the first one. Cheers.


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## dangledo (Nov 18, 2015)

GroErr said:


> Hey @dangledo, nice to hear. you'll grow some nice flowers with these and they're less expensive per watt, with high efficiency. When I grabbed the first one it was much the same decision, I was considering switching to LED's but there was nothing readily available at the time, I didn't have the time or cycles to build my own, and I had a cycle that needed to be flipped to 12/12. So I ordered the LEC and a few days later I had it running. Bought a second one a couple of months later after seeing the results of the first one. Cheers.


site said they had them in stock, now itll be a week before they even get them. looking like a couple weeks now. wanted to get a little veg time with it before I flip, may have to extend that a little. oh well. still pumped to try something new, that with some small hempys that ive never tried. change of pace is much needed. ALL you cmh growers been putting out some nice plants, so I'm looking forward to it!


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## GroErr (Nov 18, 2015)

dangledo said:


> site said they had them in stock, now itll be a week before they even get them. looking like a couple weeks now. wanted to get a little veg time with it before I flip, may have to extend that a little. oh well. still pumped to try something new, that with some small hempys that ive never tried. change of pace is much needed. ALL you cmh growers been putting out some nice plants, so I'm looking forward to it!


That sucks, as long as it's only a couple of weeks you'll be good. Always fun to try new tech and methods! I may finally get around to building some COBs I have on hand this winter. Thing is that these LEC's put out so much bud, I have little incentive to get cracking on my DIY COB project! lol


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 18, 2015)

dangledo said:


> site said they had them in stock, now itll be a week before they even get them. looking like a couple weeks now. wanted to get a little veg time with it before I flip, may have to extend that a little. oh well. still pumped to try something new, that with some small hempys that ive never tried. change of pace is much needed. ALL you cmh growers been putting out some nice plants, so I'm looking forward to it!


let us know how it goes please,,, im interested to see how others do with these lamps...if you order from boulderlamp.com and say the chemist recomended you, youl get a small discount..
500.00 per lamp, i thought was a bit pricey.. but now i say money well spent, 1st run covered cost of all 4 lamps, electric bills,nutes,water,etc,,,then a little money in my pocket...as a care giver i very rearly make a profit, but since the switch to cmh ive cut my electric bill in half...i must admit i sold a little bit under the table to cover my lamp costs...things are looking up,,,my patients say the cmh grown meds are better than ever...maybe growing legally doesnt have to mean breaking even any more?


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## ttystikk (Nov 19, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> let us know how it goes please,,, im interested to see how others do with these lamps...if you order from boulderlamp.com and say the chemist recomended you, youl get a small discount..
> 500.00 per lamp, i thought was a bit pricey.. but now i say money well spent, 1st run covered cost of all 4 lamps, electric bills,nutes,water,etc,,,then a little money in my pocket...as a care giver i very rearly make a profit, but since the switch to cmh ive cut my electric bill in half...i must admit i sold a little bit under the table to cover my lamp costs...things are looking up,,,my patients say the cmh grown meds are better than ever...maybe growing legally doesnt have to mean breaking even any more?


Prices will come down to take care of that problem. Just be patient...


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## GroErr (Nov 19, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Prices will come down to take care of that problem. Just be patient...


It would seem it's starting. Here's a new kit from Hydrofarm I hadn't seen before. Noticed it in a promo email from Growershouse. With a 10% discount on all lights they have going right now, this kit with the Elite Agro in either 3100k or 4200k, hood, ballast, ready to fire for ~$300. Haven't looked too deep but it looks like the unit supports 120v or 240v out of the box. External ballast, not quite as clean/neat as the Sun Systems and the reflector doesn't look quite as good as the SS but hey for $300?

Promo: http://growershouse.com/phantom-cmh-reflector-ballast-and-bulb-kit
Hydrofarm: https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/PHR3150


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## ttystikk (Nov 19, 2015)

GroErr said:


> It would seem it's starting. Here's a new kit from Hydrofarm I hadn't seen before. Noticed it in a promo email from Growershouse. With a 10% discount on all lights they have going right now, this kit with the Elite Agro in either 3100k or 4200k, hood, ballast, ready to fire for ~$300. Haven't looked too deep but it looks like the unit supports 120v or 240v out of the box. External ballast, not quite as clean/neat as the Sun Systems and the reflector doesn't look quite as good as the SS but hey for $300?
> 
> Promo: http://growershouse.com/phantom-cmh-reflector-ballast-and-bulb-kit
> Hydrofarm: https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/PHR3150


In an endless effort to stay ahead of the advancing technology in this industry, I confess to having stopped my research on various bulb and lamp based systems in favor of COB LED. THOSE prices are coming down, too.


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## GroErr (Nov 19, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> In an endless effort to stay ahead of the advancing technology in this industry, I confess to having stopped my research on various bulb and lamp based systems in favor of COB LED. THOSE prices are coming down, too.


Lol, it's an endless chase with tech, I have some "legacy" Cree 3070's that I haven't even built and they're already "old"


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## ttystikk (Nov 19, 2015)

GroErr said:


> Lol, it's an endless chase with tech, I have some "legacy" Cree 3070's that I haven't even built and they're already "old"


Insane, right? I have A DOZEN 315W CMH kits I never even opened! Bare lamp w/ mogul socket base and Phillips ballast. Wire them into any hood you want. I'll take $200 a kit plus shipping lol


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## GroErr (Nov 19, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Insane, right? I have A DOZEN 315W CMH kits I never even opened! Bare lamp w/ mogul socket base and Phillips ballast. Wire them into any hood you want. I'll take $200 a kit plus shipping lol


Lol wish I had the room to run some more, last thing I need is more lights or seeds (same thing, too many to grow out!).


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## HeartIandhank (Nov 19, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> I'm not interested in overhauls, either; I'm after revolution. IDGAF who's running what bulb anymore, I've seen the promised land and it's lit with COB LEDs!


I gotta check it out. Any reading on the matter you recommend?


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## HeartIandhank (Nov 19, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Insane, right? I have A DOZEN 315W CMH kits I never even opened! Bare lamp w/ mogul socket base and Phillips ballast. Wire them into any hood you want. I'll take $200 a kit plus shipping lol


everything needed except the hood? Does it run on 110 or 220?


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## HeartIandhank (Nov 19, 2015)

I gottta say.. this thread is great. Lots of great info and no fighting... i didn't think it was even possible on RIU .. nice.


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## grapefruitmarmalade (Nov 19, 2015)

Immaculate foliage @Chemist77
I just switched to a Philips CDO-TT 830 cmh bulb. I requested the new 942 one but they're not available in my country apparently. The import of the 315 watt CDL will cost a pretty penny and I'm keen on the CDO-TT because it's backwards compatible to any old HPS/MH ballast.
Happy growing and good karma to you!


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## ttystikk (Nov 19, 2015)

grapefruitmarmalade said:


> Immaculate foliage @Chemist77
> I just switched to a Philips CDO-TT 830 cmh bulb. I requested the new 942 one but they're not available in my country apparently. The import of the 315 watt CDL will cost a pretty penny and I'm keen on the CDO-TT because it's backwards compatible to any old HPS/MH ballast.
> Happy growing and good karma to you!


Nononono! The bulb isn't where the improvements are, they're in the BALLAST. The Philips 315W digital low frequency square wave ballast is the whole reason the bulb is more efficient.


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## grapefruitmarmalade (Nov 19, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Nononono! The bulb isn't where the improvements are, they're in the BALLAST. The Philips 315W digital low frequency square wave ballast is the whole reason the bulb is more efficient.


Beginner grower here, and I'm well aware of that.
Also I'm well aware that the product grown is of great value compared to the initial investment.
However for my little grow op I find it much cheaper to aim for commercial bulbs with regular ballasts (magnetic ballast and yes the CMH will strike even with longer cables). I meant to say that I'm glad for a cheap improvement for the low CRI of the soidum lamps. And I am seeing improvements and I'm excited about the CDL bulbs
I'm looking to get a Lights Interaction D-Papillon 315 within the next three months, but anyway I'm rambling again...
Good stuff, man, keep it going and keep posting pics!


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## ttystikk (Nov 19, 2015)

grapefruitmarmalade said:


> Beginner grower here, and I'm well aware of that.
> Also I'm well aware that the product grown is of great value compared to the initial investment.
> However for my little grow op I find it much cheaper to aim for commercial bulbs with regular ballasts (magnetic ballast and yes the CMH will strike even with longer cables). I meant to say that I'm glad for a cheap improvement for the low CRI of the soidum lamps. And I am seeing improvements and I'm excited about the CDL bulbs
> I'm looking to get a Lights Interaction D-Papillon 315 within the next three months, but anyway I'm rambling again...
> Good stuff, man, keep it going and keep posting pics!


Then buy the kits. The lamp and correct ballast can be had for well under $300. Use your own light fixture and save!


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## grapefruitmarmalade (Nov 19, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Then buy the kits. The lamp and correct ballast can be had for well under $300. Use your own light fixture and save!


close to the $700 mark over here with the taxes and what not, dude.
Mark ups are insane..
But anyway as much as I love talking lights I'm in no position to discuss it with the pros; seeing as how I've got so much of the other stuff to dial in and what not
I do appreciate an efficient grow light though


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## ttystikk (Nov 19, 2015)

grapefruitmarmalade said:


> close to the $700 mark over here with the taxes and what not, dude.
> Mark ups are insane..
> But anyway as much as I love talking lights I'm in no position to discuss it with the pros; seeing as how I've got so much of the other stuff to dial in and what not
> I do appreciate an efficient grow light though


You make the decision that's right for you; I'm just trying to make sure you have complete and accurate information with which to do so.


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 19, 2015)

if i hadnt read that high times magazine id still be running my hps...wen i saw the par value of the 315 cdl compared to the gavita pro de,, i had to take a chance with these lamps.. glad i did.. ill post pix each week of flower, then total dry weights and gpw.. this run is far better than the last, could be the table cover, more veg time, or both idk.. the canopy has filled in well and plants are double the height of my first run.. 
now i just need to find a good cob led to do some testing.....


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## ttystikk (Nov 20, 2015)

HeartIandhank said:


> I gotta check it out. Any reading on the matter you recommend?


Just spend some time lurking the LED lighting threads here on RIU, that's how I got started.


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## ttystikk (Nov 20, 2015)

HeartIandhank said:


> everything needed except the hood? Does it run on 110 or 220?


I think those Philips ballasts only run on 240V.


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## dangledo (Nov 21, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> let us know how it goes please,,, im interested to see how others do with these lamps...if you order from boulderlamp.com and say the chemist recomended you, youl get a small discount..
> 500.00 per lamp, i thought was a bit pricey.. but now i say money well spent, 1st run covered cost of all 4 lamps, electric bills,nutes,water,etc,,,then a little money in my pocket...as a care giver i very rearly make a profit, but since the switch to cmh ive cut my electric bill in half...i must admit i sold a little bit under the table to cover my lamp costs...things are looking up,,,my patients say the cmh grown meds are better than ever...maybe growing legally doesnt have to mean breaking even any more?



will do man. When all DOES go well, I'm pretty sure ill be phasing out the ole hps. ill have to check out those boulder lamps. ended up getting the SS lec to my door(in a week+) @ 400$, with a discount coupon. not too bad. its driving me nuts knowing these veggers could be using up that lec that was shown to be in stock, ready to ship. these damn t5's just don't get them ready enough to flip to hps, so I end up loosing a week or two to acclimate them enough before flower with mh.

I'm a hobby grower, so I'm not so much dialed in as far as a set schedule in a perpetual. the main reason I was looking at led/lec in the first place. my state is mmj legal for the past 2 years, but nothing is rolling yet, and grows are set up by the state, so mom and pop grows aren't legit, yet.


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 29, 2015)

sorry , i missed week 4 pix.. today is 29 days into flower. i cleaned and changed the rez with general hydroponics bloom at 1 tsp per gallon ppm=1087, ph=5.9.. ill take pix tomorrow when lights go on and post..
also taking clones tomorrow, that gives them 10-14 days to root then 2 weeks to veg.. so the same day i pull this run clones will be all set to flower, no down time.. ill pull plants, clean room and rez,put 30 plants in, take down the 3 cmh lamps and put up the 1k hps..i think this will be my last run under hps.. or at least hps alone..i still may do a run using 2 cmh lamps and 1 400 watt hps in between.

i ordered a 4,200k cmh bulb to use in my veg room but havnt decided when to switch from mh to cmh for the veg room yet..good will and grow well..


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## TheChemist77 (Nov 30, 2015)

ok so its november 30th, i was suppose to take clones and get pix up today...but it was the last day of rifle season here in the upper peninsula of MI.. 28 deg f. cold outside,my trusty 30-06 across my lap, 4:48 pm frost with each breath, the light is slowly fading to darkness,,,,,just a few minutes till its dark,,,,,,perfect!!!!!





sorry, i was busy ill get the pictures of the plants up tomorrow....


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## farmerfischer (Nov 30, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> ok so its november 30th, i was suppose to take clones and get pix up today...but it was the last day of rifle season here in the upper peninsula of MI.. 28 deg f. cold outside,my trusty 30-06 across my lap, 4:48 pm frost with each breath, the light is slowly fading to darkness,,,,,just a few minutes till its dark,,,,,,perfect!!!!
> 
> 
> View attachment 3554673
> ...


Fuck yeah!!! Thats awesome bro!!


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## dangledo (Dec 2, 2015)

any of you have a slight buzzing sound after ignition, when it was new. not talking about the ballast, but almost like an internal cooling fan is kinda squealing. it has actually gotten slightly quieter each time ive turned it on. had it for a couple days now, for some reason couldn't add pic yesterday.

I cant believe how bright this light is. saw another fixture that has two lec's with a spot for an hps in the middle. Id like to see what this can do between two hps. already eyeing the new one with a separate ballast too. I forgot to turn on my fan and open some flaps on this 2x2 tent which this barely squeezes in. almost fried a few hempy girls. surprisingly with just an exhaust and clip fan running, this tent is only at 80 degrees.


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 2, 2015)

5th week of flowering day 32


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 2, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Dec 2, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Dec 2, 2015)

took 36 clones of the bubblegum....


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## ttystikk (Dec 2, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> View attachment 3556169 View attachment 3556170 View attachment 3556171 View attachment 3556172 View attachment 3556173 View attachment 3556174 View attachment 3556175 View attachment 3556176
> took 36 clones of the bubblegum....


Oh if that bubblegum does you like she does me, you gonna like that...


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## GroErr (Dec 3, 2015)

Nice jungle going in there, looking good! What cut of Bubblegum do you have? Just got a single fem from 00 Seeds with an order for some JTR regs.


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 4, 2015)

GroErr said:


> Nice jungle going in there, looking good! What cut of Bubblegum do you have? Just got a single fem from 00 Seeds with an order for some JTR regs.


this is a feminized TH seeds indica dominant bubble gum.. planted 2 both wer identicle in veg and same smell,structure in bloom but one was finicky on nutes wile this one was fine..i ran serious seeds gum last year, more sativa dom, taller,good structure, more stretch, but took 9 weeks to finish and it lost the gum smell wile it dryed..thought of crossing the 2,, i have 4 different gum strains that are all stabilized or true breed strains,th gum,serious gum, nirvana bubblelicious and female seeds bubblegumer..havnt run the other 2 yet tho...also have doublegum f1 hybrid,, my island sweet skunk from next generation smelled like bubblelicious, had big buds but was a bitch to trim and another 9 week strain...id like to see how a sativa dominant strain would do under the cmh lamps tho,,i bet it would really cut the stretch down,,,as soon as im done with the testing im going to start running some new strains,,but wile im testing the cuts have to be the same for reliable results...


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## ttystikk (Dec 4, 2015)

I've been running the same strains for years for exactly that reason.


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 6, 2015)

any help please!!!!!
ok so u guys know ive been working with breeding and creating S1's for some time now.. question is,, it seems to me in a natural breed using male pollen on a female bud, seeds produced, most take more characteristics from the pollen.. now in a S1 breed taking pollen from a female and using that pollen on a bud,, will the majority of characteristics come from the bud or the pollen?? i would assume the female pollen would dominate the bud??idk? i ask because i am getting pollen from a few different females after using the tireiasta mist and have a few females i want to pollenate but i would like the female pollen to be the dominant in the seeds produced.. i hope u guys understand what im getting at...
iss=tall,big gum smelling buds, but fluffy not dence and a 9 week finish
bg=short,big dence gum smelling buds 8 week finish
i want seeds to take more from the bg than the iss,,should i use pollen from the bg and put on a iss bud,,,or take pollen from the iss and put it on the bg bud?? or is it a 50/50 thing so it doesnt matter?


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## ttystikk (Dec 6, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> any help please!!!!!
> ok so u guys know ive been working with breeding and creating S1's for some time now.. question is,, it seems to me in a natural breed using male pollen on a female bud, seeds produced, most take more characteristics from the pollen.. now in a S1 breed taking pollen from a female and using that pollen on a bud,, will the majority of characteristics come from the bud or the pollen?? i would assume the female pollen would dominate the bud??idk? i ask because i am getting pollen from a few different females after using the tireiasta mist and have a few females i want to pollenate but i would like the female pollen to be the dominant in the seeds produced.. i hope u guys understand what im getting at...
> iss=tall,big gum smelling buds, but fluffy not dence and a 9 week finish
> bg=short,big dence gum smelling buds 8 week finish
> i want seeds to take more from the bg than the iss,,should i use pollen from the bg and put on a iss bud,,,or take pollen from the iss and put it on the bg bud?? or is it a 50/50 thing so it doesnt matter?


Sexual reproduction always gets half the genetic material from each parent. Not all characteristics will transfer in any given individual combination.

For the desired characteristics, grow out a bunch of the seeds from the cross, then run them out and find your favorite.


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## a senile fungus (Dec 6, 2015)

And that's not even mentioning dominant vs recessive traits, or f1 hybrid vigor!


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 6, 2015)

ttystikk said:


> Sexual reproduction always gets half the genetic material from each parent. Not all characteristics will transfer in any given individual combination.
> 
> For the desired characteristics, grow out a bunch of the seeds from the cross, then run them out and find your favorite.





a senile fungus said:


> And that's not even mentioning dominant vs recessive traits, or f1 hybrid vigor!



not sure, im almost positive seeds take alot from the pollen in a cross..thats why its so important to use a great male in regular crosses.. you can have the best female ever, and if you use a shit male, plant tons of seeds not one female will be as good as the original,,but u use the best female to back cross,,with each back cross to that male seeds continue to lose potency..by the time its cubed or stabilized you have uniform crap,,, all because of that shitty male...ive crossed for years and found that wen looking for a desireable male to breed its like 1 out of 20 or more.. ive had better results like 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 finding a kick ass female phenio.. and trying to lock down certain characteristics such as smell or structure is a bitch but much easier wen using a male with characteristics your after...on males a potent smell, close nodes, good structure, and big flower clusters are very important,,after that its all about selecting the wright female to back cross...
now in S1's it seems that most seeds are very close to replicas of the female..im in a new area using feminized pollen on a seperate female,,,crossing with feminized pollen is all new to me...thanks for the input,,guess ill just have to plant a bunch of the seeds and go from there...


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## ttystikk (Dec 7, 2015)

a senile fungus said:


> And that's not even mentioning dominant vs recessive traits, or f1 hybrid vigor!


I didn't want to confuse the shit out of him, LOL!


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 24, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Dec 24, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Dec 24, 2015)




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## TheChemist77 (Dec 24, 2015)

Last 4 picks of purple #1 finished. 30 plants under 940 watts cmh day 50. I'll pull them in 6 days then post weighs. 
30 Bubblegum clones have 1 week of veg. ready to go into flower as soon as these ones get pulled. January 1st should be day 1 of flower under 1000 hps. Any comments appreciated. Merry Christmas! Grow well and be well to all!


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## borbor (Dec 25, 2015)

Hey dude plants look amazing, really makes me want to try a flood&drain, I love how like two inches up from the rockwool it's already solid bud on so many of em. that purple looks awesome.
one thing-I'm not sure if this happens to other people but for me it's next to impossible to read a thread when there's something like 50 images in 4k all full size in all the posts, if you put some of them in thumbnails, I can scroll through your thread, so I'll be in here a lot more often!


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 26, 2015)

the purple may look good, but very small buds, very little to no crystals, buds are more leaf and calyx with very few hairs.. she is gone.. didnt bother taking any clones, a waste of light in my opinion..ive searched for a purple for so long,,finally get purple and its so disappointing..oh out of the 2 purples 1 threw nanners at 6 weeks into flower, the other just not worth the time..
the big bomb and topp 44's however look good both will produce good, the bomb being the winner tho..
put 9 reg seeds in paper towels, 5 misty,2 avalon, 2 ak48, 1 incredible bulk fem..only 5 of ten popped so far 3 misty,2 ak48...hope the rest pop and hope to get a few killer moms..i only have the 1 fem of incredible bulk so she had better come up!!!!


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## ttystikk (Dec 26, 2015)

TheChemist77 said:


> the purple may look good, but very small buds, very little to no crystals, buds are more leaf and calyx with very few hairs.. she is gone.. didnt bother taking any clones, a waste of light in my opinion..ive searched for a purple for so long,,finally get purple and its so disappointing..oh out of the 2 purples 1 threw nanners at 6 weeks into flower, the other just not worth the time..
> the big bomb and topp 44's however look good both will produce good, the bomb being the winner tho..
> put 9 reg seeds in paper towels, 5 misty,2 avalon, 2 ak48, 1 incredible bulk fem..only 5 of ten popped so far 3 misty,2 ak48...hope the rest pop and hope to get a few killer moms..i only have the 1 fem of incredible bulk so she had better come up!!!!


Every purple I've ever run, color or name, was bullshit.

Other strains that change color due to environmental conditions are excepted.


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## borbor (Dec 26, 2015)

damn, unfortunate. I wish I could give you cuttings of mine!


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## 2ANONYMOUS (Dec 26, 2015)

purple trainwreck x Pakistani chitral kush


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## TheChemist77 (Jan 1, 2016)

Last pics time to pull! I'll post weights when dry. Sorry about picture quality I tried something new with the magnifying glass. Hope you guys like it.


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## TheChemist77 (Jan 1, 2016)




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## TheChemist77 (Jan 1, 2016)




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## TheChemist77 (Jan 1, 2016)

day 1 bloom under 1,000 watt hps... all plants have 2 weeks of veg. under mh.


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## TheChemist77 (Jan 1, 2016)




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## ttystikk (Jan 1, 2016)

Plantmax is the brand I ran when I ran HPS thouies. I'm very interested in your comparative runs.


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## TheChemist77 (Jan 1, 2016)

I've really been waiting to see how the 1K HPS will compare to the 945 CMH!! 56 days to finish this run. I think this is my last run under HPS. Any comments appreciated. I hate taking pictures under the HPS!!


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## a senile fungus (Jan 13, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> I've really been waiting to see how the 1K HPS will compare to the 945 CMH!! 56 days to finish this run. I think this is my last run under HPS. Any comments appreciated. I hate taking pictures under the HPS!!



What sized spaces?

If you could match the ppfd it'd be a more even comparison!


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## TheChemist77 (Jan 20, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> From what I've seen so far, I think that three 315W LEC lights would be roughly equivalent to two 600W HPS lamps. That's better spectrum and 25% more output. Nice!




I THINK YOUR WRIGHT!!!!


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## TheChemist77 (Jan 20, 2016)

RESULTS ARE IN!!!!
30 PLANTS UNDER 945 WATTS CMH
26 T.H. seeds bubble gum= 1014 grams dry weight,, average plant=39grams per plant.
4 next generation island sweet skunk=112 grams dry weight,,average yield per plant=28 grams

TOTAL YIELD=1126 GRAMS DRY WEIGHT.. GRAMS PER WATT=1.19 GPW

BUT WEIGHT,,,I also had 4 plants in 5 gallon dwc buckets on the left side of the 4x6 table..these plants only recieved indirect lighting from the 945watts cmh lamps,, 3 of the 4 are finished,,dry and weighed...1 green house super bud still in flower,almost done.
1 bomb big bomb= 46 grams
1 homegrown fantaseed viking=41 grams
1 homegrown fantaseed top44=26 grams
3 plant weight total=113

1126 + 113= 1239 total yield under 945 watts...
BRINGS THE GRAM PER WATT TOTAL UP TO 
1.31 GPW

I think that 3 315 watt cmh lamps is equivilant to or better than 2 600 watt hps...also the 3 315's in line over the 4x6 ft table easily created a good coverage over the 5 gallon dwc buckets to the left of the table so actual coverage 2ft above canopy was more like 6ftx6ft.. the super bud plant has a week left but is now recieving only indirect lighting from the 1k hps..ill post the dry weight of it when done...any thoughts, any input, any comments very welocome!!!!

945 watts or 3 315 watt cmh = 1.3 GPW total,,, cmh = better gpw than HPS,,in my opinion...


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## GroErr (Jan 20, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> RESULTS ARE IN!!!!
> 30 PLANTS UNDER 945 WATTS CMH
> 26 T.H. seeds bubble gum= 1014 grams dry weight,, average plant=39grams per plant.
> 4 next generation island sweet skunk=112 grams dry weight,,average yield per plant=28 grams
> ...


Very nice weights, nice grow! Having those plants on the side shows how much those LEC spread the footprint. Obviously density had to be decent to get that weight. Looking forward to seeing what the 1000w does. What's your take on the quality compared to previous grows?


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## TheChemist77 (Jan 20, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Very nice weights, nice grow! Having those plants on the side shows how much those LEC spread the footprint. Obviously density had to be decent to get that weight. Looking forward to seeing what the 1000w does. What's your take on the quality compared to previous grows?


buds seem to be denser, closer nodes, shorter stockier plants and crystal production is way better under cmh.. i highly doubt the 1k will even compare, either way this will be my last run under hps alone.. i may try both cmh and hps tho.. ill have pix of everything up in a day or so..to be honest i didnt expext the 3 315's to do that well,, i thought running 2 over my table was perfect and 3 would be overkill,, but i was wrong..yield went from 793grams under 630 watts to 1239 under 3...
as of now 3 315's deffinatly compare better to 2 600 watt HPS'S than 1 1k hps...ive never pulled 1200 grams off a 1k HPS run


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## GroErr (Jan 21, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> buds seem to be denser, closer nodes, shorter stockier plants and crystal production is way better under cmh.. i highly doubt the 1k will even compare, either way this will be my last run under hps alone.. i may try both cmh and hps tho.. ill have pix of everything up in a day or so..to be honest i didnt expext the 3 315's to do that well,, i thought running 2 over my table was perfect and 3 would be overkill,, but i was wrong..yield went from 793grams under 630 watts to 1239 under 3...
> as of now 3 315's deffinatly compare better to 2 600 watt HPS'S than 1 1k hps...ive never pulled 1200 grams off a 1k HPS run


Nice, based on those numbers you should pay off the LEC investment with a couple of runs in your environment


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## TheChemist77 (Jan 21, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Nice, based on those numbers you should pay off the LEC investment with a couple of runs in your environment


i paid them off on my first run, 1lb paid them off, the other lb pluss was pure proffit.. now ive gone back to legal care giver/patient non proffit growing... i may sell a bit off the books to cover a COB led in the future, as i really want to try led.. but i need to be sure what one i want, do research etc...


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## GroErr (Jan 22, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> i paid them off on my first run, 1lb paid them off, the other lb pluss was pure proffit.. now ive gone back to legal care giver/patient non proffit growing... i may sell a bit off the books to cover a COB led in the future, as i really want to try led.. but i need to be sure what one i want, do research etc...


Nice, 3590's are in my radar to try too but going to wait a bit until our dollar stabilizes, exchange rates make them too expesive to bother right now.

Meant to ask you if you'd noticed any reduction in finish times between the hps and LEC's with the strains you're running.


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## TheChemist77 (Jan 22, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Nice, 3590's are in my radar to try too but going to wait a bit until our dollar stabilizes, exchange rates make them too expesive to bother right now.
> 
> Meant to ask you if you'd noticed any reduction in finish times between the hps and LEC's with the strains you're running.


yes,, i pulled at 8 weeks because i had planned it that way, but i could have pulled the bubble gum at 7 weeks..the gum always took 8 weeks to finish under hps but under the cmh light it was finished at 7.. now i know for future runs under the cmh i can take a week off flower times.. but i add a week to veg times so it all evens out..under hps a 1 week veg,8 week in flower i get 3ft plants, with cmh a 2 week veg and 7 week flower gets 2 to 2 n a half ft plants.. lower buds are of a larger size under cmh too, no more popcorn w/ cmh all buds are usable.. i forgot to mention i make bubble hash w/ clippings and the hash made from the cmh runs was the best hash ive ever seen and more of it.. the 90 micron stuff i use to fill pills, the 75 micron and below goes into bricks.. my patients LOVE the pills, 1 pill makes life seem so much better, you cant stop smiling, take 2,,,,your out,, you cant keep your eyes open,,you can try to fight it but sleep is unevitable.. aches and pains dissapear,,my back,,,what back? its as if there is no body attached to your head,,well you cant feel it anyways.lol


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## GroErr (Jan 22, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> yes,, i pulled at 8 weeks because i had planned it that way, but i could have pulled the bubble gum at 7 weeks..the gum always took 8 weeks to finish under hps but under the cmh light it was finished at 7.. now i know for future runs under the cmh i can take a week off flower times.. but i add a week to veg times so it all evens out..under hps a 1 week veg,8 week in flower i get 3ft plants, with cmh a 2 week veg and 7 week flower gets 2 to 2 n a half ft plants.. lower buds are of a larger size under cmh too, no more popcorn w/ cmh all buds are usable.. i forgot to mention i make bubble hash w/ clippings and the hash made from the cmh runs was the best hash ive ever seen and more of it.. the 90 micron stuff i use to fill pills, the 75 micron and below goes into bricks.. my patients LOVE the pills, 1 pill makes life seem so much better, you cant stop smiling, take 2,,,,your out,, you cant keep your eyes open,,you can try to fight it but sleep is unevitable.. aches and pains dissapear,,my back,,,what back? its as if there is no body attached to your head,,well you cant feel it anyways.lol


Ok so your flowering time is reduced but your veg time increased, interesting. I didn't notice veg time as I always vegged under blurple LED's and run perpetual and a bunch of different strains that typically change. But with my control strains I found it knocked at least 5 days off flowering on average. Medibles rock, I run kief and then use that to make coconut oil caps, same thing, anyone who's tried them for any sort of chronic pain loves them and keep coming back for more. I take 60mg pills regularly as they don't get me too blasted and I'm still functional but there's always a 1 hour window about an hour in where you get the giggles, doesn't seem to matter how little or how much you take. If I want to get stoned I'll take 2 and 4 - 5 hours later it's the head nod thing like you mention, then a good 8-9 hour sleep, there's no fighting the head nods for sure - lol For pain there's nothing else that I've ever tried that works better than caps, back pain, muscle pain, it all disappears when they take effect. I know so many people that could benefit from them that are still stuck in old school thinking about MJ being the evil weed and won't try them, yet they're popping pharma pills constantly and paying the price with side effects and long term issues, very frustrating trying to break that old school thinking with some people.


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## ttystikk (Jan 22, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Ok so your flowering time is reduced but your veg time increased, interesting. I didn't notice veg time as I always vegged under blurple LED's and run perpetual and a bunch of different strains that typically change. But with my control strains I found it knocked at least 5 days off flowering on average. Medibles rock, I run kief and then use that to make coconut oil caps, same thing, anyone who's tried them for any sort of chronic pain loves them and keep coming back for more. I take 60mg pills regularly as they don't get me too blasted and I'm still functional but there's always a 1 hour window about an hour in where you get the giggles, doesn't seem to matter how little or how much you take. If I want to get stoned I'll take 2 and 4 - 5 hours later it's the head nod thing like you mention, then a good 8-9 hour sleep, there's no fighting the head nods for sure - lol For pain there's nothing else that I've ever tried that works better than caps, back pain, muscle pain, it all disappears when they take effect. I know so many people that could benefit from them that are still stuck in old school thinking about MJ being the evil weed and won't try them, yet they're popping pharma pills constantly and paying the price with side effects and long term issues, very frustrating trying to break that old school thinking with some people.


You're doing good work, keep on doing it. They'll come around when they figure out that you've had a bad back for years, yet it doesn't stop you... and you aren't hooked on smack pills peddled by Big Pharma.


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## GroErr (Jan 22, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> You're doing good work, keep on doing it. They'll come around when they figure out that you've had a bad back for years, yet it doesn't stop you... and you aren't hooked on smack pills peddled by Big Pharma.


Thanks @ttystikk I've been able to convert the odd non-believer but less than I'd like to. The meds side of MJ is very personal for me as I've been through the system myself and have lost a couple of family members including my dad to cancer.. My only experience with pharma meds was a few years back in 2010 when I battled cancer, I was stage 4 and they gave me 6-12 months if I did nothing so I went through both chemo and radiation. Had to take some pharma shit that goes with chemo treatments for a few months and I couldn't believe the side effects, didn't take any oxy's or the like although they were freely offered. I used MJ and edibles to offset the meds and the symptoms which helped big time, probably saved my life, it certainly saved my quality of life. As soon as I was finished treatments I got off the pharma meds and still take nothing but MJ meds. My oncologist still shakes his head every time I see him, he told me when I got diagnosed that I should get my shit in order, in other words don't expect to come out of it. When I see him for yearly check ups now I remind him to prescribe MJ, we've had a lot of talks about it and how I used it, he's a convert and is helping a lot of people now so I consider him my biggest contribution to the cause  It's frustrating to know it can help but being stone walled by old school devil weed thinking #$%!


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## ttystikk (Jan 23, 2016)

GroErr said:


> Thanks @ttystikk I've been able to convert the odd non-believer but less than I'd like to. The meds side of MJ is very personal for me as I've been through the system myself and have lost a couple of family members including my dad to cancer.. My only experience with pharma meds was a few years back in 2010 when I battled cancer, I was stage 4 and they gave me 6-12 months if I did nothing so I went through both chemo and radiation. Had to take some pharma shit that goes with chemo treatments for a few months and I couldn't believe the side effects, didn't take any oxy's or the like although they were freely offered. I used MJ and edibles to offset the meds and the symptoms which helped big time, probably saved my life, it certainly saved my quality of life. As soon as I was finished treatments I got off the pharma meds and still take nothing but MJ meds. My oncologist still shakes his head every time I see him, he told me when I got diagnosed that I should get my shit in order, in other words don't expect to come out of it. When I see him for yearly check ups now I remind him to prescribe MJ, we've had a lot of talks about it and how I used it, he's a convert and is helping a lot of people now so I consider him my biggest contribution to the cause  It's frustrating to know it can help but being stone walled by old school devil weed thinking #$%!


No one who comes to me with a legitimate medical need goes away empty handed. Ever. Cuz someday it will be me, it's only a matter of when.


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## TheChemist77 (Jan 28, 2016)




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## ttystikk (Jan 28, 2016)

EZ Bake nuggets?


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## TheChemist77 (Jan 28, 2016)




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## TheChemist77 (Jan 28, 2016)




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## ttystikk (Jan 30, 2016)

What's the lighting in your veg hood? Another 315? My girls LOVE veg under 860W CDM, I wish the things were more efficient.


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## TheChemist77 (Jan 31, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> What's the lighting in your veg hood? Another 315? My girls LOVE veg under 860W CDM, I wish the things were more efficient.


My veg area is covered by 1 400 watt metal halide 6500k and 1 125 watt CFL 6500k.. I plan to change it but I'm trying to see if going from the higher k mh in veg then going to the 31ook cmh in flower will get more height than going from the 4200k cmh in veg to the 3100k cmh in flower.. I'll have to do it over the next few runs as I'm using the 1k hps now.. Plants going from mh in veg to hps in flower are a bit taller and space between nodes are larger than under mh in veg to cmh in flower..I can say already the 3 315's covered the table and buckets much better than the 1k hps..table is ok but the buckets are not looking as good as they did getting only indirect light from the 315's.. I also don't think the 1k will get 1200 grams,, I've never got more than 1 gram per watt under a 1k.. I've gotten 1250 grams under 2 600 watt hps's tho,,so I'm thinking the 945 watts of ceramic is just as good as 2 600 watt hps's. Plus plants finish faster under cmh so you can take 1 week off flower times,,,but you might want to add that week to your veg time. 

After all the ceramics wer a great investment,, I took a gamble and it paid off far better than the time I wasted money on the led lights.. As long as the ceramics don't break or anything I'll be pleased,, I hope the cmh ballasts last as long as my old magnetic ballasts,,20 plus years old and still work as well as the day I bought them...


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## ttystikk (Feb 1, 2016)

No, your magnetic ballasts AREN'T working as well today as when you bought them; coils, capacitors and ignitors all wear and need periodic replacement. Have them checked. Saved me money on power and lamps. 

Like the good reviews on the 315W CMH, but I'm afraid you're going to have to invest in LED again; my CXB3590 chips are making better light than anything else I've ever used. Period.


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## BOBBY_G (Feb 11, 2016)

sounds like he paid for his future CXB40xx rig several times over already jussayin'


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## TheChemist77 (Feb 17, 2016)

6 Weeks.... Plants would be further along and better under CMH!


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## TheChemist77 (Feb 17, 2016)




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## TheChemist77 (Feb 17, 2016)




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## BOBBY_G (Feb 17, 2016)

GroErr said:


> It would seem it's starting. Here's a new kit from Hydrofarm I hadn't seen before. Noticed it in a promo email from Growershouse. With a 10% discount on all lights they have going right now, this kit with the Elite Agro in either 3100k or 4200k, hood, ballast, ready to fire for ~$300. Haven't looked too deep but it looks like the unit supports 120v or 240v out of the box. External ballast, not quite as clean/neat as the Sun Systems and the reflector doesn't look quite as good as the SS but hey for $300?
> 
> Promo: http://growershouse.com/phantom-cmh-reflector-ballast-and-bulb-kit
> Hydrofarm: https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/PHR3150



4 of these are working great for me in a 5x5. not a bad unit and i love the external ballast. vertical bulb so no spectrum shift.... boulder lamp seems a bit overpriced relative to the mainstream hfarm and sun systems units also hfarm is aircoolable


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## ttystikk (Feb 18, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> 6 Weeks.... Plants would be further along and better under CMH!


Shhhhh, the plants can hear you and they'll shrivel up from the negative vibes, maaaaaan... don't you know anything about weed, maaaaaan? Just, like- smoke a joint and relax, maaaaaaan. They be ready when they're ready, maaaaaaan...


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## TheChemist77 (Feb 18, 2016)

BOBBY_G said:


> 4 of these are working great for me in a 5x5. not a bad unit and i love the external ballast. vertical bulb so no spectrum shift.... boulder lamp seems a bit overpriced relative to the mainstream hfarm and sun systems units also hfarm is aircoolable


im very happy with the boulder lamp, yes it was a bit more expensive but they paid themselves off in one run. also i like the coverage and wonder if the sun system or hydro farm units will cover the same area,,same bulbs, roughly same ballasts, only difference is the reflectors and attached or detached ballast.



ttystikk said:


> Shhhhh, the plants can hear you and they'll shrivel up from the negative vibes, maaaaaan... don't you know anything about weed, maaaaaan? Just, like- smoke a joint and relax, maaaaaaan. They be ready when they're ready, maaaaaaan...


lol,,yes i talk to my ladies daily.. but at 6 weeks into bloom buds are not nearly as mature as they wer under cmh, i hope they finish at 8 weeks,,,they always did before..i have a small 3ftx3ft area i was using for S1's and i plan to buy a 300 watt cob to cover this are and do 1 run with the 315 cmh then 1 run with the 300 watt cob. i was leaning twards the go green 300 watt but its the cxb 3070's and id prefer to get the 3590's if you can recomend a 300 watt unit for around $800.00 id apreciate it...


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## ttystikk (Feb 18, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> im very happy with the boulder lamp, yes it was a bit more expensive but they paid themselves off in one run. also i like the coverage and wonder if the sun system or hydro farm units will cover the same area,,same bulbs, roughly same ballasts, only difference is the reflectors and attached or detached ballast.
> 
> 
> 
> lol,,yes i talk to my ladies daily.. but at 6 weeks into bloom buds are not nearly as mature as they wer under cmh, i hope they finish at 8 weeks,,,they always did before..i have a small 3ftx3ft area i was using for S1's and i plan to buy a 300 watt cob to cover this are and do 1 run with the 315 cmh then 1 run with the 300 watt cob. i was leaning twards the go green 300 watt but its the cxb 3070's and id prefer to get the 3590's if you can recomend a 300 watt unit for around $800.00 id apreciate it...


Tasty LED, Johnson Grow Lights, and several more offer a 4 CXB3590 unit that pulls just over 200W and hits your price point. It's a very efficient combo, I'd think it would be serious competition for the 315W fixture.


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## sicka (Feb 18, 2016)

great thread mate

inspired to try these 315s!

thanks for sharing


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## GOLDBERG71 (Feb 20, 2016)

It looks like you had good results. Just what I need more things to consider. I'm to far invested with MH/HPS at this point in time. We grow differently so what can you say about the penetration into the canopy?

I veg longer and grow in 50/50 pro mix/perlite. So it's important that I get penetration. I start in 1 gallon pots and I top and super crop. My goal is 8 main colas per plant. 2 weeks before they're ready to flower I transplant them to 5 gallon pots. So my plants are about 12 to 16 inches when flower begins. By the time they've all stretched the room looks like a sea of green. They're about 4.5 feet tall.


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## GOLDBERG71 (Feb 20, 2016)

I can't raise those lights anymore without taking off the "hooks" and using wire or something strong and straight so the hood hugs the ceiling. They give you those hooks so some air goes over the top of them. But I've had to do it a few times. Sometimes every inch counts.


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## GOLDBERG71 (Feb 20, 2016)

Here's a difference respective.


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## GOLDBERG71 (Feb 22, 2016)

Just stopping by again to see about the penetration comparison? Would it match a 600 watt hps/mh? I'm sure it would not match a 1000?!


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## TheChemist77 (Feb 28, 2016)

GOLDBERG71 said:


> Just stopping by again to see about the penetration comparison? Would it match a 600 watt hps/mh? I'm sure it would not match a 1000?!



VERY NICE LOOKING GROW!!!!! penetration with the 315 seems to be great 3 feet under canopy with nice size buds,, not little popcorn crap.. i keep my plants at a 3ft max as i dont have alot of overhead room either.. my tallest plant so far under the ceramic was in a 5 gal bucket on the side, only getting indirect lighting but finished at about 4 ft tall, buds were all of good size all the way down, i was surprised as it wasnt really getting any direct light either.. so i would guess that plants in the 3.5ft square under each unit would recieve penetration to about 4ft without losing much bud size and that is with the hood 2ft above the canopy.. now if you kept the hood at 18 inches above canopy which is easy and wont burn plants so long as the air is moving penetration may be good to 4 and a half feet.. penetration also depends on the amount of foilliage lots of leaves blocking the buds from the light will reduce penetration depths under any light source of course.

ill be posting the final pix under the 1k hps in a few days...i dont know what went wrong,, everything was same exept lighting, buds are not very big, crystalization looks amazing but bud size even directly under the bulb is poor.. trimming is going to really suck,, this is the WORST run ive ever had under hps..im not going to redue this run as i know the 1k hps usually gets me a gram per watt of nice size sticky buds.. and ive done many many runs under 1k hps;s..however this is the first time ive used my 1k hps in a few years,, i was usually running 2 600's as the yields were bigger with better coverage of my flower area..

i look forward to future runs under the 315's, i think consistency is a huge thing so my plants need to get used to the ceramics for a wile.. i may move the placement of hoods around but no more changes in lamps for at least 3 or 4 runs...
grow well and good will to all !!!


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## ttystikk (Feb 28, 2016)

GOLDBERG71 said:


> Just stopping by again to see about the penetration comparison? Would it match a 600 watt hps/mh? I'm sure it would not match a 1000?!


Nice work I see.

I'm about to swap out an 860W CDM Allstart for two 315W CMH kits and I will have more light for less watts- especially since between bulb and obsolete magnetic ballast running on 240V (and not the 208V the wattage is advertised for) the '860W ' is actually pulling 1100W! WHOA! Check out my thread for what I did when I discovered that! 

I'll do the same with a 600W HPS bulb, replacing it with a 315W CMH kit. Better quality of light for my veg, less heat, nearly the same output. Again, reduced power consumption by a third or better.


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## ttystikk (Feb 29, 2016)

So everyone knows all about the low freq square wave ballast that makes the 315W so powerful and efficient.

As I've discovered, the 860W CDM Allstart lamps run at 1000W on magnetic ballasts, bring low frequency, and 'forgiving', whatever that means in this context. Got me to thinking, though;

What if someone put an 860W Allstart on a Horti Platinum low frequency digital square wave thousand watt ballast?

Well, @dbkick is trying it and he's pretty pleased with how is working so far. If it provides the same 30% increase in output as it did for the smaller version for slightly less watts- digis being more efficient- this could well give the ol' girl a whole new lease on life!


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## indianajones (Mar 3, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> So everyone knows all about the low freq square wave ballast that makes the 315W so powerful and efficient.
> 
> As I've discovered, the 860W CDM Allstart lamps run at 1000W on magnetic ballasts, bring low frequency, and 'forgiving', whatever that means in this context. Got me to thinking, though;
> 
> ...



that sounds like a great idea with the 860w, the problem was limited availability of LFSW ballast technology when the bulb was introduced. i'm really digging my 315w setup, that's for damn sure.


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## ttystikk (Mar 3, 2016)

indianajones said:


> that sounds like a great idea with the 860w, the problem was limited availability of LFSW ballast technology when the bulb was introduced. i'm really digging my 315w setup, that's for damn sure.


These ballasts have been available for at least 5 years now, they've just been expensive. The ballast doesn't exceed the lamp's specifications and so far things seem to be running well.


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## TheChemist77 (Mar 8, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> These ballasts have been available for at least 5 years now, they've just been expensive. The ballast doesn't exceed the lamp's specifications and so far things seem to be running well.


ttystikk, just thought you and other vertcle growers would like to see this new vert grow lamp from boulder lamp co.

*Vertical Grow Light*
Vertical farming maximizes production in a given space. Patent pending CDL+LED light towers are engineered to provide efficient lighting in a vertical grow operation.


315W CDL Light Module

Vertical Light Tower


Vertical farming in a covered greenhouse or in an enclosed warehouse offers many benefits, such as a large volume of crop production in a relatively small space, controlled environment and grow hours, up to 8 crop cycles per year and less pesticides. Moreover, hydroponic growing reduces water use by as much as 90%. Our CDL+LED light towers provide an outstanding choice for vertical horticulture lighting.

BLI’s vertical grow light tower with CDL grow lamps with color augmenting LED panels. The following picture is for illustration purpose and depicts front LED panels only. CDL lamp modules are opposite to each other. Number of CDL lamp modules depends on ceiling height. For more information contact Boulderlamp(BLI):



BLI’s vertical grow light tower with CDL grow lamps with color augmenting LED panels. The following picture is for illustration purpose and depicts front LED panels only. CDL lamp modules are up direction. Number of CDL lamp modules depends on ceiling height. For more information contact Boulderlamp (BLI):


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## ttystikk (Mar 8, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> ttystikk, just thought you and other vertcle growers would like to see this new vert grow lamp from boulder lamp co.
> 
> *Vertical Grow Light*
> Vertical farming maximizes production in a given space. Patent pending CDL+LED light towers are engineered to provide efficient lighting in a vertical grow operation.
> ...


Fascinating. I wonder what overall efficiency comes out to?


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## TheChemist77 (Mar 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Fascinating. I wonder what overall efficiency comes out to?



hey ty,, i was just wondering the distance from canopy you use with the cob lights? from my understanding the only reason big grow ops have not gone all led is that the cobs need to be 18-24 inches above the canopy.. and in a big setting you want to place the lamps higher up so that the overlap from lamp to lamp creates a more even coverage.. im probably wrong,, you know better than me and thats why i ask? can cobs be placed 3 feet above the canopy say 3feet apart to create an even coverage? also how is the penetration? say i have a 300 watt cob over a 3x3 area 2feet above canopy with 4ft tall plants will the lower branches and buds be of better size,,not popcorn??

have you seen,
*50000 square feet. Colorado Legal rec grow*


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## TheChemist77 (Mar 9, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Fascinating. I wonder what overall efficiency comes out to?


 could cobs replace the 315 watt ceramics without a huge difference in that colorado grow?


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## ttystikk (Mar 9, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> hey ty,, i was just wondering the distance from canopy you use with the cob lights? from my understanding the only reason big grow ops have not gone all led is that the cobs need to be 18-24 inches above the canopy.. and in a big setting you want to place the lamps higher up so that the overlap from lamp to lamp creates a more even coverage.. im probably wrong,, you know better than me and thats why i ask? can cobs be placed 3 feet above the canopy say 3feet apart to create an even coverage? also how is the penetration? say i have a 300 watt cob over a 3x3 area 2feet above canopy with 4ft tall plants will the lower branches and buds be of better size,,not popcorn??
> 
> have you seen,
> *50000 square feet. Colorado Legal rec grow*


Different situations call for different approaches. Just substituting COB LED for HID leaves a lot of advantages on the table. 

Yes, you can run the COBs closer because they're not as hot. You can also crank up the output on them so they need to be hung as high bay units, which is great if that's what the situation calls for. 

It's a highly versatile technology, we're just scratching the shade of what's possible with them.


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## ttystikk (Mar 9, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> could cobs replace the 315 watt ceramics without a huge difference in that colorado grow?


Absolutely. The question is one of cost effectiveness.


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## GroErr (Mar 9, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> could cobs replace the 315 watt ceramics without a huge difference in that colorado grow?


You might want to check out @Greengenes707 thread, he's setup some commercial size ops with COBs. Haven't seen any as large as that Colorado op using the 315's but large enough to prove out COBs.


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## Greengenes707 (Mar 9, 2016)

Ya, they could. I've set up a couple bigger facilites. Not quite that big though. 95 lighter is the biggest I have converted to my lights. 
LED's used to have to be so close to the plants because they were not actually putting out even close to what they were trying to compete with(sodiums). Now days we(the community/industry) have been putting out some great LED fixtures. Not all are winners, and there are still many scams...but is getting much better and results are getting out. 

Long story short...When you reach the amount of light that is needed(desired/optimal PPFD), height is the same as with the other fixture/system. There may be small variations due to optics(reflects, lenses, whatever), but once you have the actual equal amount of photons...the hanging height issues are gone. 

Great grow(s) man. Keep it up.


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## TheChemist77 (Mar 11, 2016)

thanks for the info guys,, guess ill be spending some cash.. i really need to get a 300 watt cob and do a small 3ftx3ft grow comparison..sucks as i already have multiple lamps being unused and nobody is going to want to buy my hps/mh lamps..now its all about talking my wife into letting me spend my money on a cob lamp...is it worth the argument?? to me it is..lol


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## ttystikk (Mar 11, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> thanks for the info guys,, guess ill be spending some cash.. i really need to get a 300 watt cob and do a small 3ftx3ft grow comparison..sucks as i already have multiple lamps being unused and nobody is going to want to buy my hps/mh lamps..now its all about talking my wife into letting me spend my money on a cob lamp...is it worth the argument?? to me it is..lol


I'd suggest doing a 4 COB LED fixture with CXB3590 running on a 200W driver. This gives 56% efficiency and pulls about 225W from the wall. I think such a fixture is a head to head match for a 315W CMH setup, using only 2/3 the watts and thus also needing less cooling. This is a very popular configuration because it does a great job of fully utilising the driver, maximizing its efficiency as well as the chips.

A 300W fixture is a little harder to build due to the vagaries of the combinations available, and I think it would be so much more powerful a light source that you might have some trouble with even light distribution over the canopy. Then again, if you've run 1kW HPS you're probably used to it.

If you want to match an HPS thouie outright with COB tech, you could do a lot worse than to buy a Johnson Grow Lights Maximizer. He's been watching various distributors run it head to head vs HID lighting and even other LED panels, and it's been kicking everything else's ass up one side of the grow tent and down the other.

Better hurry tho, his gear has just been discovered and I think he's going to be really busy with backorders soon.


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## BiG PuFFer (Mar 21, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> 511 grams
> Island Sweet Skunk 282 grams
> Total: 793 grams
> 630 watts over a gram per watt cmh lamps did very well


I just asked this on my thread. Good shit.


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## caumop (May 23, 2016)

HeartIandhank said:


> Have you tried supplementing UV, ttystick? What has you doubting it?
> 
> Supplementing UV with T5 is very affordable. . The tests showing benefits from UV on indoor MJ go back to the 80s.. it's been shown time and time again since then as well.
> And it isn't just increased thc, resin and thcv. But also a more complete genetic expression. Making your herb more unique and expressing traits it
> ...


Heart, which T5 bulb did you use for uv sup? How much of a difference did it make?


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## Rhino king (May 25, 2016)

Looks nice & healthy well done.im likEing your projects forsure, im running 2x galaxy 600 with digimax bulbs and 2 sunsystem 315z doing a side by side on 3 150x75 nft gullys per 2 lights etc so 3 gullys each . in my fourth week atm in bloom running a a&b npk budzilla 20-5-30 mix.with superthrive and bud xl and they r getting hit tonite with h&g top booster then on the 5th week they will be getting hit with the shooting powder along with shooting powderx2 on the 6th .but my first impressions are impressive .


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## TheChemist77 (May 26, 2016)

sorry i havnt posted pix in a wile.. ill get some pix up SOON!! im 4 weeks into bloom, 40 plants in 4'' rock wool placed in 6'' net pots covered with grow rocks on the 4'x6' f&d table.. 2 315's above, maxi bloom nutes, ill add powder koolbloom for the last 2 weeks. every 6 hours table floods for 15 minutes..first 2 weeks of bloom they got 1/2 grow, 1/2 maxi bloom, at 900 ppm, 3rd week bloom only ppm at 1,000, 4th week bloom only 1,100 ppm, ph at 5.6 then i let it drift to 6.3 before i add down to 5.6 again,, usually takes 5 days,but i top off with mixed bloom water unless ppm gets to high, then i top with plain ph balanced water to keep the ppm at 1100...


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## Rhino king (May 26, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> sorry i havnt posted pix in a wile.. ill get some pix up SOON!! im 4 weeks into bloom, 40 plants in 4'' rock wool placed in 6'' net pots covered with grow rocks on the 4'x6' f&d table.. 2 315's above, maxi bloom nutes, ill add powder koolbloom for the last 2 weeks. every 6 hours table floods for 15 minutes..first 2 weeks of bloom they got 1/2 grow, 1/2 maxi bloom, at 900 ppm, 3rd week bloom only ppm at 1,000, 4th week bloom only 1,100 ppm, ph at 5.6 then i let it drift to 6.3 before i add down to 5.6 again,, usually takes 5 days,but i top off with mixed bloom water unless ppm gets to high, then i top with plain ph balanced water to keep the ppm at 1100...


Wow thats awesome low ppms to me im running way higher around 1680 cf 24. They are pumping along with superthrive , bud xl , just gt hit with top shooter yesterday going to flush on sunday ,then return to normal a b nute schedule and on 5th week introduce shooting powder then 6th week the will get a double hit of shooting powder whilst reduceing nutes to around 1000ppm 1200ppm and then on 7th week flush these babys out with phd water etc


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## jayjay777 (May 26, 2016)

Nice to see your back. Hope all is well...


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## TheChemist77 (May 26, 2016)

jayjay777 said:


> Nice to see your back. Hope all is well...


back in business,,, all certified, police inspected, it was a real hassle..thanks bro,hope your running well...whats ur favorite strain?


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## jayjay777 (May 28, 2016)

Still that Afghan! I've tried gdp,gsc,ogk,ww, you get the point. I at least tried 20 other stains but that's still the best....


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## jayjay777 (May 28, 2016)

I made more of those beans so if you need something back let me know...


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## ttystikk (May 28, 2016)

jayjay777 said:


> Still that Afghan! I've tried gdp,gsc,ogk,ww, you get the point. I at least tried 20 other stains but that's still the best....


That's one of the things I like best about our favorite plant; everyone has a different favorite. Personally, afghan strains were nothing special for me, but that's just a subjective preference. 

I've been through dozens of strains as well, and my favorites tend to be hybrids with some lemon fuel flavor and a healthy Indica punch. 

Vive la difference!


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## jayjay777 (May 28, 2016)

My personal favorite is just like yours. Like a lemon haze. But when it comes to growing it's all about yield N bag appeal. N this Afghan strain takes the cake. 

Also when I first started out I wouldn't let the strains go 63 or 70 days. Usually 49 or 56. So a lot of strains I tried didn't see there full potential. But that's the impatience of a newbie, now I know better LOL

But the chemist777 bread this critical I still have and it's good smoke but the bud size and plant structure are unbelieveable. It roots in 7 days and would be perfect in a commercial application.


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## jayjay777 (May 29, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> back in business,,, all certified, police inspected, it was a real hassle..thanks bro,hope your running well...whats ur favorite strain?


If You still wanna sell all your hid lights let me know. I'm always in the market! #ebay


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## TheChemist77 (May 29, 2016)

i had recently planted 3 fem's of 5.0 from black skull seeds and 2 spliff blue berry, 1 of the blue berries actually smell like blue berries! both have great structure and bud size but the 1 that has that smell is a keeper. then the 3 5.0's 2 are short n stocky with 1 being tall, i labled them 1,2,and 3 in the order in which they came up.. the #1 5.0 smells like pine, very powerfull pine smell with huge 11 fingered leaves.. i dont think they can replace my bubble gum but i definately need to run some of the clones on the table.. wright now its the 5 mothers on my megagarden all are close to 4' tall.. i pollenated a branch on each of them with feminized bubble gum pollen and finally created some S1's of my th seeds bubble gum..i had also planted 2 nl#5xafghan reg seeds from mr.nice, unfortunatly they wer both male, but 1 has the really indica dominant leaves,short structure with a x-mas tree like shape. clusters and crystals forming on the leaves.not a very powerfull smell but its a nice looking male.. ill collect some pollen and make some crosses...i now have over 200 crosses of my owne and close to 250 strains i bought from mid week song..


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## TheChemist77 (Jun 30, 2016)

never thought to give u guys a look at my old grow w/ the 2 600 watt hps,,,before i switched to cmh,, take a peek

https://www.rollitup.org/t/chemist77-pic-journal.850252/


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## TheChemist77 (Jun 30, 2016)

https://www.rollitup.org/t/chemist77-pic-journal.850252/


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## powerslide (Jul 25, 2016)

anymore updates on how the 315's are running?


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## GOLDBERG71 (Sep 6, 2016)

I had a ballast fail the other day. So after some pondering. I'm going to dive in to the deep end. I've ruled out DE because of height restrictions. So I'm going to be removing my 2 600 watt MH/HPS from my 4x8 tent. That will give a ballast in place of the failed ballast and one to make seeds with. Going into the tent as replacements will be 3 - 315 CMH. I called my hydro guy and put them on hold. So as soon as I have a few hours I'll go pick them up later in the week. We spoke for a good bit of time about a great many things. I'm not certain but I believe they're the same as used here.

Ive got 8 plants in the tent now just waiting for their new lighting before I flip them to flower. So the first run will be half and half lighting veg under MH and flowered under CMH. I'm still hoping to at least get a glimps of the "better" product. I'll report back in a month and a half or so and give some idea as to what I'm seeing. Most of my strains are in the 10+ to 12 week category. So it will take awhile.


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## TheChemist77 (Sep 10, 2016)

hey m back, computer had broke after my son got water on the keyboard..anyways my ccurrent run is looking to be my best to date..36 bubble gums vegged for 4 weeks, topped and ttrimmed ofaall loweer branches after 2 weeks then clippedd again juust before they went in bloom.they started bloom sep.1st,,,ill get pix up soon,,


i missed u guys


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## ttystikk (Sep 10, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> hey m back, computer had broke after my son got water on the keyboard..anyways my ccurrent run is looking to be my best to date..36 bubble gums vegged for 4 weeks, topped and ttrimmed ofaall loweer branches after 2 weeks then clippedd again juust before they went in bloom.they started bloom sep.1st,,,ill get pix up soon,,
> 
> 
> i missed u guys


Awwww we missed you, too.


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## TheStickMan (Sep 12, 2016)

Great thread. I've just bought myself a 315 CMH to replace my 400w HPS. hoping for good things. What is the ideal lamp distance from the canopy?


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 5, 2016)

TheStickMan said:


> Great thread. I've just bought myself a 315 CMH to replace my 400w HPS. hoping for good things. What is the ideal lamp distance from the canopy?


well, its a preference thing. i keep lights 3 ft above canopy for best coverage, and even at 3 ft above canopy, 3ft plants lower buds wroughly 6ft from bulb are still big.. you can keep lamps much closer tho as these things dont get as hot as the hps.. id say most guys keep the 315's 2 ft above for great intensity and bud swell.. id say at 2ft above the lamp covers a 3ftx3ft area very well,but at 3ft above they cover a 4ftx4ft area.. ive done a few runs now covering a 4x6ft table with 2 315's then a few runs with 3 315's overhead..with 2 i get 800 grams dry, but with 3 i get around 1200 grams.. however i seem to prefer running 2 315's over the table as for some reason i get a better gram per watt with 630 watts,, if i had a 4ftx8ft table i would kill using the 3 315's at 945 watts,,seems 945 watts crammed above the 4ftx6ft table gets great coverage but may be overkill..my best gpw so far was with 2 315's over the 4x6 table,30 plants and yield was 842 grams dry weight in bags...yor going to love the 315,, way better than a 400watt hps or mh


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## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> well, its a preference thing. i keep lights 3 ft above canopy for best coverage, and even at 3 ft above canopy, 3ft plants lower buds wroughly 6ft from bulb are still big.. you can keep lamps much closer tho as these things dont get as hot as the hps.. id say most guys keep the 315's 2 ft above for great intensity and bud swell.. id say at 2ft above the lamp covers a 3ftx3ft area very well,but at 3ft above they cover a 4ftx4ft area.. ive done a few runs now covering a 4x6ft table with 2 315's then a few runs with 3 315's overhead..with 2 i get 800 grams dry, but with 3 i get around 1200 grams.. however i seem to prefer running 2 315's over the table as for some reason i get a better gram per watt with 630 watts,, if i had a 4ftx8ft table i would kill using the 3 315's at 945 watts,,seems 945 watts crammed above the 4ftx6ft table gets great coverage but may be overkill..my best gpw so far was with 2 315's over the 4x6 table,30 plants and yield was 842 grams dry weight in bags...yor going to love the 315,, way better than a 400watt hps or mh


What he said.


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## TheStickMan (Oct 5, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> well, its a preference thing. i keep lights 3 ft above canopy for best coverage, and even at 3 ft above canopy, 3ft plants lower buds wroughly 6ft from bulb are still big.. you can keep lamps much closer tho as these things dont get as hot as the hps.. id say most guys keep the 315's 2 ft above for great intensity and bud swell.. id say at 2ft above the lamp covers a 3ftx3ft area very well,but at 3ft above they cover a 4ftx4ft area.. ive done a few runs now covering a 4x6ft table with 2 315's then a few runs with 3 315's overhead..with 2 i get 800 grams dry, but with 3 i get around 1200 grams.. however i seem to prefer running 2 315's over the table as for some reason i get a better gram per watt with 630 watts,, if i had a 4ftx8ft table i would kill using the 3 315's at 945 watts,,seems 945 watts crammed above the 4ftx6ft table gets great coverage but may be overkill..my best gpw so far was with 2 315's over the 4x6 table,30 plants and yield was 842 grams dry weight in bags...yor going to love the 315,, way better than a 400watt hps or mh





ttystikk said:


> What he said.


Thanks for the information! I've got a seedling in the tent at the mo under the CDL running on 125w I think, and its about two foot away. I grow in a 1m square tent, SCROG DWC. Going to veg her under 315w and then crank it up up to 380w in flower. I guess I'm just going to have to play around with the light height, but will use 2ft as a guideline. Cheers!


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 5, 2016)

good to see you guys,,, its been awile..sorry ive been out.. computer broke, and now its bow season so im hunting most days till jan 1st.. ill post a pic if i get a buck..all is growing well,, i need to get on roll it up more ,, i used to be on every day,, but after the computer broke i guess i got used to no chatting n stuff... ill get back in a routine


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## ttystikk (Oct 5, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> good to see you guys,,, its been awile..sorry ive been out.. computer broke, and now its bow season so im hunting most days till jan 1st.. ill post a pic if i get a buck..all is growing well,, i need to get on roll it up more ,, i used to be on every day,, but after the computer broke i guess i got used to no chatting n stuff... ill get back in a routine


Dunno man, sounds like you got your priorities straight to me. 

Show off a pic of that wily buck when you get him!


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## TheChemist77 (Oct 6, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Dunno man, sounds like you got your priorities straight to me.
> 
> Show off a pic of that wily buck when you get him!


you got it.. 
im growing a few new strains, sensi's shiva skunk and bomb cherry bomb.. the shiva skunk has weird buds, not very hairy, calyxs look almost like herm bananas but not,,il try to get a pic,,,very weird,,not a favorite for sure.. cherry bomb nice big dense buds hairy n swole with plenty of crystals but not crystalized like the bubble gum.. cherry bomb smells fruity, i got feminized pollen and crossed it with bubble gum, spliff blue berry, and shiva skunk..i also made S1's of all. i think the blue berryxcherry bomb and bubble gumxcherry bomb will be some nice crosses.. in 2 pluss years and 50 different strains still havnt found one better than th bubble gum..


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 22, 2016)




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## TheChemist77 (Dec 22, 2016)




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## farmerfischer (Dec 22, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> View attachment 3859487 View attachment 3859488 View attachment 3859489 View attachment 3859490 View attachment 3859491 View attachment 3859492 View attachment 3859493 View attachment 3859494


Fucking awesome


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## GroErr (Dec 23, 2016)

Very nice Chemist, awesome looking buds coming up in there


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 23, 2016)

the single plant is the spliff blue berry, it has the velvet blue colors coming nice. on table is 15 bubble gum and 15 cherry bomb, cherry bomb on the right side, its a bit taller and is over growing the bubble gums.. 2 more weeks to go, took cuttings for next run took 16 bubble gums,16 cherry bombs, and 4 blue angels off a 5 week old fem seed mom from freedom of seeds romberryxblue berry, definatly indica dominant wide 9 fingered leaves.. i can only put 30 on the table but i want to put a few blue angels in the front hope it turns out nicely.. ill put up a few more pix after xmas just before harvest, and then again as soon as the next run begins..
question,,, do you think its a good idea having the white horizontal blinds on each side of table? they seem to help keep the plants in the grow area, no branches sticking out the sides, and the last few runs w/out the led's i had a white curtain on the left side but i left the right side open,, the buds on the left side by the curtain seemed fuller than the buds on the far right side.. i thought putting up the blinds on both sides will reflect more light onto the plants,,, thoughts?


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 23, 2016)

ttystikk said:


> Dunno man, sounds like you got your priorities straight to me.
> 
> Show off a pic of that wily buck when you get him!


saw a spike on the first day of rifle season,, no buck this year, i hunted through black powder season w/ no luck.. my game cam got pix of a few different bucks but no shooters,, lack of snow really messes hunting, as soon as we get snow the deer are seen more often.. every year i get a buck there is snow on the ground by nov.15th this year we didnt get snow till dec.2 i started seeing more deer in black powder from dec 1st- dec 12th... ill get one next year so long as we get snow.. FUCKING GLOBAL WARMING!!


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## GroErr (Dec 24, 2016)

TheChemist77 said:


> the single plant is the spliff blue berry, it has the velvet blue colors coming nice. on table is 15 bubble gum and 15 cherry bomb, cherry bomb on the right side, its a bit taller and is over growing the bubble gums.. 2 more weeks to go, took cuttings for next run took 16 bubble gums,16 cherry bombs, and 4 blue angels off a 5 week old fem seed mom from freedom of seeds romberryxblue berry, definatly indica dominant wide 9 fingered leaves.. i can only put 30 on the table but i want to put a few blue angels in the front hope it turns out nicely.. ill put up a few more pix after xmas just before harvest, and then again as soon as the next run begins..
> question,,, do you think its a good idea having the white horizontal blinds on each side of table? they seem to help keep the plants in the grow area, no branches sticking out the sides, and the last few runs w/out the led's i had a white curtain on the left side but i left the right side open,, the buds on the left side by the curtain seemed fuller than the buds on the far right side.. i thought putting up the blinds on both sides will reflect more light onto the plants,,, thoughts?


The curtains certainly won't hurt, should reflect light back and like you say, and keep them contained in their area, looks good to me!


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 31, 2016)

Rhino king said:


> Looks nice & healthy well done.im likEing your projects forsure, im running 2x galaxy 600 with digimax bulbs and 2 sunsystem 315z doing a side by side on 3 150x75 nft gullys per 2 lights etc so 3 gullys each . in my fourth week atm in bloom running a a&b npk budzilla 20-5-30 mix.with superthrive and bud xl and they r getting hit tonite with h&g top booster then on the 5th week they will be getting hit with the shooting powder along with shooting powderx2 on the 6th .but my first impressions are impressive .


how did the side by side go? 2 315's should get better gpw but 2 600's is like 1200 grams if u get 1 gpw.. 2 315's should get around 1,000 grams


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## TheChemist77 (Dec 31, 2016)

GOLDBERG71 said:


> I had a ballast fail the other day. So after some pondering. I'm going to dive in to the deep end. I've ruled out DE because of height restrictions. So I'm going to be removing my 2 600 watt MH/HPS from my 4x8 tent. That will give a ballast in place of the failed ballast and one to make seeds with. Going into the tent as replacements will be 3 - 315 CMH. I called my hydro guy and put them on hold. So as soon as I have a few hours I'll go pick them up later in the week. We spoke for a good bit of time about a great many things. I'm not certain but I believe they're the same as used here.
> 
> Ive got 8 plants in the tent now just waiting for their new lighting before I flip them to flower. So the first run will be half and half lighting veg under MH and flowered under CMH. I'm still hoping to at least get a glimps of the "better" product. I'll report back in a month and a half or so and give some idea as to what I'm seeing. Most of my strains are in the 10+ to 12 week category. So it will take awhile.


how are the 315's doing for yah?


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## TheChemist77 (Jul 26, 2017)

Sorry I haven't posted pics in a while. 830 watts total, 2- 315 watt cdls, and 2- 100 watt go green citizen leds. These plants are three weeks into flower.


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## TheChemist77 (Jul 26, 2017)




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## verticalgrow (Jul 26, 2017)

@TheChemist77 
very nice plants
Running quality light is making some quality nugs,
are u gunna try quantums


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## ttystikk (Jul 27, 2017)

Gorgeous as usual!

I notice you arranged the lights to combine the 315W and the LED output.

I'm curious as to your thinking on this.

What color temperature are the LED lights?


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## TheChemist77 (Jul 27, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Gorgeous as usual!
> 
> I notice you arranged the lights to combine the 315W and the LED output.
> 
> ...



my thoughts were simple,, save on electricity! 3 315's cover the area well but outside rows still have smaller buds,, by using 2 315's and the cobs to the side im saving 115 watts and increasing bud size on those outside rows.. i have 4 100 watt citizen cobs, 2 are 4000k and 2 are 3100k im using one of each over the bloom table and 1 of the 4000k was aded to my veg room... idid 2 previous runs, one w 3 315's and one with this set up, yields were w/in 20 grams 945 watts to 830 watts,,, only a 20 gram difference,,, i think this set up is the winner...
oh just as a note,, i switched my table from the homemade pvc undercurrent typ, to a 4x6 ft flood table, w the screen above to keep plants from falling over,,same size rock wool just not in net pots..this way i can add more plants if i want,,the pvc had 35 plant max,, i think i have 40 on the table now...


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 18, 2017)

7 Weeks In....


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## TheChemist77 (Aug 19, 2017)

the bottom picture is bcbd's the big,, it has purple calyx's .. i had 2 ,both had completely different structure ,smell, buds,, and its supose to be a true breed... anyways i just popped a bunch of seeds, dark star,ultimate purple, gdp, panama and seedsmans white widow,, d.star and ultimate purp are female, 2 gdp are female,panama female, white widow 1 female,,i think....im wondering if i should keep a male gdp and white widow for breeding?? white widow is supose to be a true breed....thoughts???suggestions???


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## ttystikk (Aug 19, 2017)

TheChemist77 said:


> View attachment 3997140 View attachment 3997142 View attachment 3997144 View attachment 3997145 View attachment 3997147 View attachment 3997152 View attachment 3997153 View attachment 3997154
> 7 Weeks In....


 fook. Nice work, as ever!

@Evil-Mobo here's the guy to ask about all things 315W CMH.


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## TheChemist77 (Sep 6, 2017)

We spent 3 hours stripping buds off plants. Then 1 hour running them through the CenturionPro. Hand trimming would have taken us at least 12 hours. 

The CenturionPro Mini well worth the 6k!


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## TheChemist77 (Sep 7, 2017)

oh if your wondering about those plant in the back ground,, they are males.. i didnt want them in my grow room, but want to get some pollen, so i just threw them in my trim room...i just read a thing on choosing male plants,,, it sais to throw away the vigorus males, the first to show sex get tossed no ifs ands or butts...so now im keeping the males that show last for breeding...


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## ttystikk (Sep 7, 2017)

TheChemist77 said:


> oh if your wondering about those plant in the back ground,, they are males.. i didnt want them in my grow room, but want to get some pollen, so i just threw them in my trim room...i just read a thing on choosing male plants,,, it sais to throw away the vigorus males, the first to show sex get tossed no ifs ands or butts...so now im keeping the males that show last for breeding...


Why? I've never heard that about males. 

I only thought premature ejaculation was bad in humans lol


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## TheChemist77 (Sep 8, 2017)

ty,, heres the link to read on choosing males


.https://www.rollitup.org/t/subcools-breeding-better-cannabis.48785/


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## ttystikk (Sep 8, 2017)

TheChemist77 said:


> ty,, heres the link to read on choosing males
> 
> 
> .https://www.rollitup.org/t/subcools-breeding-better-cannabis.48785/


I just read it. They use the method but don't explain why it works, only that it's what they do. If it works...


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## TheChemist77 (Sep 23, 2017)

hey fellas, i started a new bloom cycle 3 weeks ago, ill get pix up next week...i started many new strains, dark star(th seeds),ultimate purple(bcbd), panama red(ace seeds), grand daddy purple(kens GDP), seedsmans white widow, jock horror (nirvana), violletta(ace seeds), and c'99 (female seeds),,oh and peppermint kush(barneys farm).. the jock h, violletta, c99, and peppermint kush are just seedlings.. but the others mothers are 6 weeks into bloom, none have any color,,very dissapointing, but the th seeds dark star is really nice,..ill try to get pix of all new mothers..i hope to find something to replace my cherry bomb..have any of u grew any of these strains? reviews? advice?
question about growing in rock wool cubes,,, ive been growing in 4x4x3 inch blocks, but i can get the 3x3x3 inch blocks way cheaper,, would there be any difference going w smaller blocks?? ive grown big plants in 4x4x3 blocks,, i thought ill put mothers in 4x4x3 and use the 3x3x3 blocks for all clones going into bloom...thoughts??


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## horribleherk (Sep 23, 2017)

I've seen this thread hundreds of times & finally decided to take a peek now I'll have to go back & study it a bit good stuff!!!


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## DCobeen (Feb 3, 2018)

great grows. worth the reading and time.


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## jbtech (Jun 4, 2018)

I just have to say as someone who is new here, this is amazing! I legit went through every page to see updates and peoples suggestions. Great place I'm excited about future updates.


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## FirstTimeGrwrLngTmSmkr (Jun 4, 2018)

jbtech said:


> I just have to say as someone who is new here, this is amazing! I legit went through every page to see updates and peoples suggestions. Great place I'm excited about future updates.


I definitely agree! I have learned a bunch of quality information from experienced growers and didn't make me feel like a moron for asking questions (repeatedly)...


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## ttystikk (Jun 4, 2018)

I miss the OP....


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## Greenthumbskunk (Sep 19, 2018)

TheChemist77 said:


> hey fellas, i started a new bloom cycle 3 weeks ago, ill get pix up next week...i started many new strains, dark star(th seeds),ultimate purple(bcbd), panama red(ace seeds), grand daddy purple(kens GDP), seedsmans white widow, jock horror (nirvana), violletta(ace seeds), and c'99 (female seeds),,oh and peppermint kush(barneys farm).. the jock h, violletta, c99, and peppermint kush are just seedlings.. but the others mothers are 6 weeks into bloom, none have any color,,very dissapointing, but the th seeds dark star is really nice,..ill try to get pix of all new mothers..i hope to find something to replace my cherry bomb..have any of u grew any of these strains? reviews? advice?
> question about growing in rock wool cubes,,, ive been growing in 4x4x3 inch blocks, but i can get the 3x3x3 inch blocks way cheaper,, would there be any difference going w smaller blocks?? ive grown big plants in 4x4x3 blocks,, i thought ill put mothers in 4x4x3 and use the 3x3x3 blocks for all clones going into bloom...thoughts??



I have several of these varieties. How did you like em?


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## JarlesHay (Jan 25, 2020)

TheChemist77 said:


> View attachment 4006248 View attachment 4006249 View attachment 4006250 View attachment 4006251 View attachment 4006252 View attachment 4006253 View attachment 4006254 View attachment 4006255 We spent 3 hours stripping buds off plants. Then 1 hour running them through the CenturionPro. Hand trimming would have taken us at least 12 hours.
> 
> The CenturionPro Mini well worth the 6k!


Nice journaling! I’m curious to know what your total gpw under the three 315 this round was? 

Cheersb


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