# Bud dryer - manicured to smoke in 3 days



## Al B. Fuct (Mar 23, 2007)

Having buds hanging around air-drying for a long time is a security problem. I cooked up a bud dryer to speed up the process. 



I first looked at commercially available food dehydrators, but they usually operate at 38C/100F or above. Too hot! THC starts to break down at about 29C. So, I set about making my own. 

This one goes just 3 days from manicure to smoking, removing moisture so quickly that there's no possibility of mould.

It's a plastic storage box with 4 wiremesh racks hanging on open-link chains from the lid. 



There is one 5" muffin fan on one end sucking air out of the box 



and another fan drawing air into the box. 



I have a big deep-finned aluminum heatsink bolted to the 4" fan so air is drawn through the heatsink fins and blown into the box. 



There's 2 aluminum-bodied 470 ohm, 25 watt power resistors bolted to the heatsink. Temp control is by a standard incandescent light dimmer which controls power to the resistors which are wired in series. 



I adjust the light dimmer control until the air temp is no more than 29C as THC begins to break down at temps any higher. It is best when first firing up this design to start at the 'off' point on the dimmer and increase the power to the resistors slowly, in 1/10 of a turn increments. You don't want to open the dimmer all the way up as it may overcurrent the resistors. If I built this over again, I'd probably increase the value of the power resistors to 1.2-1.5k ohms, but these are what I had on hand at the time! 


_(note thermometer temp sensor placed in the warm airflow)_

This tiny bit of added heat drops the ambient air humidity enough to allow it to pick up the water out of the buds very quickly as it passes through the box. Just warming the ambient air a few degrees will reduce the relative humidity dramatically. 

Buds are totally dry and ready to smoke in 3 days rain or shine, but if ambient relative humidity is very high, 80&#37; or so, drying time can stretch out to 4 days. 

The dryer CAN overdry buds if I'm not careful, but that's solved by putting a teaspoon of water on a paper towel and nesting it in the buds for a couple of hours until they are nice and springy again.

There is a UV ioniser placed a few feet away from the dryer to kill scents, but the high volume of airflow through the dryer itself does a lot to reduce that musty, dank perfume. 

This old dryer is cracked, beat-up, covered in resin goo, was really only a prototype I never got around to building properly- and is generally filthy. But the damn thing works and keeps working. Moreover, it's usually in constant service and has been for about 5 years.

There's dozens of ways to build this- almost anything similar will work. Just mind the current you throw into the resistors and keep a close watch on the air temp coming from the warmer- hold it to 29C.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 23, 2007)

oh, i bet that weed just taste sooooooo yummy. crumbs up real nice. i know a guy that would love this.


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## bigbudeddie (Mar 23, 2007)

this looks good but, is the weed still of same quality? i know thc levels wont be effected but is taste and/or the bud itself any different?


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## fnord (Mar 23, 2007)

very neat setup, I think I will cobble together something similar


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 23, 2007)

fdd2blk said:


> oh, i bet that weed just taste sooooooo yummy. crumbs up real nice. i know a guy that would love this.


Taste is just the same as hang dried except that there's no possibility of mould... and I really hate the taste of mould- and can pick it up in tiny amounts. The humidity around here is often so high that hang-drying can take a couple of weeks, meaning there's always a tiny hint of mould in my hang-dried buds. 

The texture of buds run through my dryer is no different to hang-dried. I dry them until there is just a little bit of springyness left in the buds, not quite to the point where they crumble or break apart.

Keep in mind that my homebuilt job doesn't heat to the high temps used in normal food dehydrators. Weed dried in a food dehydrator WILL come out harsh, crumbly and overdried because food dehydrators are too damn hot. 

I thought about modifying the heating element in a regular food dehydrator to cool it down, but then I went shopping for one- and found they get $150-250 for a new dehydrator! I built my own for under $40, might have cost a bit more if I had not pulled some stuff out of my junkbox for it. The biggest food dehydrator I could find was also less than 1/3 the size of my jerry-rigged dryer.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 23, 2007)

mogie said:


> Very impressive.


Thanks, mogie. You're being very kind to my slacker engineering efforts! 



bigbudeddie said:


> this looks good but, is the weed still of same quality? i know thc levels wont be effected but is taste and/or the bud itself any different?


The stuff that comes out of this dryer is nicer than hang dried as it can't possibly have any mould. 

You can vary the smoking smoothness of any buds by varying how much water you leave in the buds. Slightly moist buds smoke smoother because they burn cooler. 

It's possible to overdry with my dryer, but as said before, it's very easy to put a little water back in by nesting a paper towel with a teasoon of water in the buds for an hour or two. 



fnord said:


> very neat setup, I think I will cobble together something similar


Thanks. It's very easy to make something that works well. 

Would recommend that if you use a plastic storage tub, use a 'hot knife' to cut the holes for the fans. A jigsaw will crack and shatter the cheap plastic. You can make a hot knife by hammering a soldering iron tip flat. Will melt nice neat bolt holes and cut the large circles with ease.

If you find that the 25watt power resistors are too expensive (about $15 each but free for this project out of my junkbox), you can use a 25-30 watt soldering iron element firmly clamped to the heatsink instead. I've seen soldering irons for $7-10.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 24, 2007)

Al B. Fuct said:


> it's usually in constant service and has been for about 5 years.


correction... I just found an old photo of this dryer in operation back in 2000- it has been in use for 7 years. 

I don't even want to know how much dope this thing has processed! It would be a _whole_ lot! 

I've had as much as 16oz dry weight come out of it in 3 days, all racks loaded to capacity in a single layer.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 24, 2007)

all right i'm an old school 2 week cure kinda guy. but the hot knife now that's something i can use. thank you.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 24, 2007)

Nothing wrong with the 2-wk cure as long as you have reliably low-humidity ambient air to dry it in. Rains a lot here, so I needed to make my own low-humidity air. 

So it happens, a dryer is faster than hang drying and the air motion alone suppresses mould. Because I'm limiting temp to 29C/84F, this dryer is not much different than hang drying on a warm, dry, windy summer day. It's worlds different from a commercial food dryer at ~100-140F.

The hot knife thang is a good trick. Definitely an outdoor job, tho. The plastic smoke is wicked. If you're clever, you can wire a dimmer into a power outlet strip and use that to vary the temperature of the soldering iron element to reduce smoking.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 24, 2007)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Nothing wrong with the 2-wk cure as long as you have reliably low-humidity ambient air to dry it in. Rains a lot here, so I needed to make my own low-humidity air.
> 
> So it happens, a dryer is faster than hang drying and the air motion alone suppresses mould. Because I'm limiting temp to 29C/84F, this dryer is not much different than hang drying on a warm, dry, windy summer day. It's worlds different from a commercial food dryer at ~100-140F.
> 
> The hot knife thang is a good trick. Definitely an outdoor job, tho. The plastic smoke is wicked. If you're clever, you can wire a dimmer into a power outlet strip and use that to vary the temperature of the soldering iron element to reduce smoking.


it just keeps getting better. i actually have a dimmer box i just plug into. thaks again. + rep.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 24, 2007)

...and for my next trick... free beer from plant trimmings! 

Happy to be of service.


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## TillthedayiDIE420 (Mar 24, 2007)

I like it, i have plenty of fan's, and plenty of tub's i think im going to make a quick dryer.


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## Godkas (Mar 24, 2007)

Very nice. I've been thinking of a very similar design for a drying box using a wood box and chicken wire baskets. The drying process would be even faster due to the porus nature of wood and depending on the wood used it could leave a great scent behind.

The one I was going to make would be built out of mosquite wood that has been charred slightly over a fire on the inside. This will produce a peppery taste as well as significantly reduce the odor.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 24, 2007)

TillthedayiDIE420 said:


> I like it, i have plenty of fan's, and plenty of tub's i think im going to make a quick dryer.


Why not? All the bits in this are fairly cheap and available if you don't have most of them already. When you've gotten some buds out of your new dryer, drop back in and tell us what you find about any difference between hang-dried and that done in your dryer. If you keep the air temperature at or below 29C/84F, there really should be no difference, except that there won't be any mould in the stuff you do in the dryer.



Godkas said:


> Very nice. I've been thinking of a very similar design for a drying box using a wood box and chicken wire baskets. The drying process would be even faster due to the porus nature of wood and depending on the wood used it could leave a great scent behind.


The porosity of the box will be insignificant in removing moisture from buds compared to the slightly warm airflow through the box. A plastic box will not only do fine but is probably preferable for this application, if only for the ease of building the thing.



Godkas said:


> The one I was going to make would be built out of mosquite wood that has been charred slightly over a fire on the inside. This will produce a peppery taste as well as significantly reduce the odor.


I wouldn't count on any scent reduction or adding of the mesquite scent to the buds. If you use fans like mine, there's so much air moving through the box that the scent of the mesquite will be dissipated, as is the scent from the buds themselves. I'm also not sure I would want any foreign flavours in my buds, but that's just personal preference.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 24, 2007)

If anyone is actually going to build a copy of this, I probably ought to make some notes on usage.

One thing that I found out early on is that buds can be 'false dry,' meaning the outside of the buds can feel very firm, almost crisp, but the inside may yet still be fairly wet. If the buds are taken out and bagged at this stage, the moisture will migrate to the outer layers and the buds may in several hours be too soft and damp. Buds can appear to be 'false dry' in this manner after about 40-50 hours in the dryer (depending on ambient temp & RH). I test the moisture content by how readily the stems in the buds snap. 

With practice, you will learn the exact time to remove and bag your buds to get the moisture balance spot on for storage and smoking. Overdry buds store well but are harsh to smoke. Overdamp buds smoke smoothly (way too wet means it's hard to light), but can develop mould in storage.

I tend to err on the side of overdry because it's easy to reverse the process and add a little moisture back in by putting the buds in a plastic Tupperware type container for a couple of hours with a slightly dampened paper towel.

If/when I ever get around to rebuilding this thing, I don't think I'd hang the wire racks from the lid. This arrangement means you have to hold the lid/racks up in the air with one hand while loading or emptying the racks with the other. 

I have seen some ultra-cheap stackable plastic storage racks in the dollar shops, with their own plastic tube legs which press-fit into the 4 corners of the racks. One could get racks which closely fit inside a tub. The thing would be much easier to load and unload with racks which stand up on their own instead of hanging from the lid.


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## Godkas (Mar 24, 2007)

im sure of the smell and flavor changes. Anything in a charred smokey box smells and even tastes like the wood it is stored in (provided that wood has a transferrable taste) regardless of relative airflow


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 24, 2007)

OK, make one out of wood and let us know how you go. I have a feeling the large amount of ventilation will blow the wood scent out, but I haven't tried it.


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## courtcourt420 (Mar 24, 2007)

Al B. Whats up. We built a dryer in a a container about the same size. with 2 fans, 125 cfm total, on each end sucking air out. and 13 total holes to bring air in . Do you think that there are enough holes? then we put 3 wire clothes hangers about 8 inches apart to lay the stalks on. everything is spaced out evenly to dry. how long do you think it will take to dry?


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 24, 2007)

If you are not warming the air and don't have a cross-flow, it should take only somewhat less time than it takes to hang-dry. However, _*any*_ air motion will reduce the possibility of mould getting a foothold.

I find that a cross-flow through the box, in one end, out the other, is more effective than trying to either just blow air in or out. 

Pass #1 on my dryer only had 1 fan, pumping warm air in, with unaided exhaust. Adding the exhaust fan speeds it up dramatically.


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## silk (Mar 24, 2007)

FYI on dehydrators: Commercial Food, Fruit, Beef Jerky Dehydrator & Dryer - Drying Herbs & Fruits  Excalibur Dehydration

I have the same security issues. My solution: buds drying in between newspapers in the oven. 10-14 days.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 24, 2007)

Thanks for the linkage, silk. 

One thing I notice from all those commercial dehydrators is how much heating power they have - anywhere from 220W to 600W. Lots of watts, probably very good for making beef jerky. However, I seriously doubt any of the commercial units will be adjustable down to 29C, which is the very _*maximum*_ temp you want to expose buds to while drying or storing. Throwing 600W into a load of buds would very quickly destroy the THC and turn the buds crumbly.

My dryer only puts 25W worth of power at maximum (more than that should pop the resistors) into the air which runs through the buds. When ambient temperature is about 24C, it only takes about 10-15W to raise the temp to 29C. 

I had considered modifying a commercial dehydration unit by putting a high-power incandescent dimmer unit in series with the heating element to limit the max temp, but the cost to buy a new dehydrator unit was far, *FAR* in excess of what I could build one for.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 24, 2007)

courtcourt420 said:


> Al B. Whats up. We built a dryer in a a container about the same size. with 2 fans, 125 cfm total, on each end sucking air out. and 13 total holes to bring air in .


You might think about trying a reversible mod to your dryer to convert it to crossflow. _

If_ the fans are already on opposite ends of the box, tape shut your 13 holes with some staunch duct tape (from inside and out) and turn one of the fans around backwards so you have one pumping air in and one pulling it out. I think you'll find that this will speed up the drying even without adding any heat to your intake air. Even the motion of the airstream hitting the water molecules on the bud material, without any added heat, will help speed the evaporation. 

The fan locations are important- it wouldn't work too well if the in & out fans were right next to one another- the main stream of air would travel by the shortest, lowest resistance path from one fan to the other. The mass of buds should be right in the midst of the airstream for best effect. 

Lemme know how you go.


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## silk (Mar 25, 2007)

Maybe my link wasn't clear, those excalibur dehydrators can go down to below 19C which is lower than my air drying method which is around 23C. I'm actually gonna pick one up for other uses but I'll give it a try with buds sometimes. I don't really have a mold threat in my home, particularly in the oven!


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 25, 2007)

Thanks for the info, but where are you getting the 19C figure from? The small units on the page you linked all have a note saying 'adjustable thermostat' but only the $5000 'professional' unit gives a temp range (specifies "80F-200F+"). The 'pro' unit sure looks nice, though! If it can maintain 29C/84F, it's just the ticket! 

I'm sure the other units can either go down close to 29C or could be modified to do so, but they're all priced at a lot more than you'd spend for a slapdash converted storage box special.

I admit to being both lazy and cheap, but I think I'm cheaper than I am lazy.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 25, 2007)

This page from the Excalibur FAQ says the adjustable range is 95F-145F.

FAQs Regarding Excalibur Dehydrator



> Is an adjustable thermostat important? Yes, it is. For best flavor, fastest drying, highest nutritional value, and overall versatility, and adjustable thermostat is a "must". For example:
> Item​ Termostat_ [sic]_ Setting​ Herbs *95&#186; F * Cake Decorations *100&#186; - 110&#186;F* Yogurt *115&#186; F * Vegetables *125&#186; F * Fruit *135&#186; F * Jerky *145&#186; F*


Just a _LITTLE_ too hot for buds. If it could only come down 10 more degrees F, it'd be the shit.


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## silk (Mar 26, 2007)

Al B. Fuct drop the company an e-mail. They will tell you you can get below 70F on it. I know two foodies that own the retail models and have dehydrated below 70F.


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## courtcourt420 (Mar 26, 2007)

al b. 

hello again. are there any draw backs of speeding up the drying process? ive read in some places it can possibly take away potency.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 26, 2007)

silk said:


> Al B. Fuct drop the company an e-mail. They will tell you you can get below 70F on it. I know two foodies that own the retail models and have dehydrated below 70F.


No prob- they ought to put that on their website, though. It's good info that some of their potential customers (like us) could put to good use!


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 26, 2007)

courtcourt420 said:


> al b.
> 
> hello again. are there any draw backs of speeding up the drying process? ive read in some places it can possibly take away potency.


This is THE most common question about my dryer. I've answered it a few times already, but I'll go through it _once more with feeling! _

The only way to reduce the potency with a dryer/dehydrator is to exceed the temp at which THC breaks down (29C). _*Most*_ commercial dehydrators operate at much higher than 29C, but silk has found some commercially made units which will go down to 29C. 

When you find references to dehydrators damaging the potency of buds, they are generally talking about commercial dehydrators which most often run hotter than needed for buds. 

There's no magic in drying buds. Nothing happens in hang-drying which actually requires 2 weeks of hang-time before smoking. You're not dealing with fermentation, which does require some amount of time to work correctly. Whether you're hang-drying or using my dryer (or an equivalent which does not exceed 29C), these methods *only remove water,* more or less quickly, nothing else. My dryer is designed to remove water from buds as quickly as it can be done without raising the air temp above 29C.

My dryer is very specifically designed for buds. It puts out only a very small amount of heat. The temp is easily controllable via the highly stable dimmer module, down to 1/10 of a degree C. 

If you knew the precise resistance value needed to raise the temp of the air coming off the heatsink to 29C (based upon your local line voltage), you could eliminate the dimmer module. However, I haven't calculated these values. These values would vary quite lot with different sized heatsinks and fans, so I have not bothered. With the dimmer, the circuit as drawn above will work for 110V-240V AC. You just have to manually set the temp. 

However, it's possible to add a thermostat to mind the max air temp for you. Just wire a t'stat from a broken aquarium heater in series with the dimmer unit and put the thermostat in the warm air stream. Set the thermostat until the max temp is 29C- and forget about it. A thermostat will shut off current to the resistors on the heatsink when temps exceed the 29C limit, but the fans will keep running. This method is useful when your ambient air temps get close to 28-29C. If your ambient air temps don't usually get close to 29C, you will do fine with no thermostat, just using the dimmer to set the max temp.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 26, 2007)

Thanks to rollitup admins for adding my bud dryer to the FAQ. 



> *Al B. Fuct's Bud Dryer*
> 
> How to dry buds fast without losing quality


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## hearmenow (Mar 27, 2007)

Great thread, AL. I will look into building one myself. After drying, do you cure your buds or smoke them right away. I read that the curing process goes a long long way in determining the quality of the smoke - longer cure, smoother smoke, better the high.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 27, 2007)

Thanks for the compliment, hearmenow.

There's a lot of myths surrounding 'curing' cannabis. I've heard everything from burying buds in glass jars for a few months to sprinkling whiskey on the stuff (yikes!). 

The only thing you really need to do is trim off the bud leaves and dry the buds, either by hanging or with a dryer, no magic involved. The small bud leaves have to go because they have an awful lot of chlorophyll and cellulose by weight compared to the amount of resin and taste a bit 'green' when smoked. There's a lot of resin trichomes on those 'sugar leaves' as they are sometimes called due to the 'frosty' appearance of the resin trichomes, which makes such trimmings ideal for the ice water/filtration method of hash making. I don't dick around with making water hash, I just smoke the resin which sticks to my fingers while manicuring. Yummy stuff, finger hash. 

In answer to your question, I just 'manicure' and chuck the buds in the dryer. Manicuring is much easier when the plant is fresh. If the plant is allowed to wilt before manicuring, the manicuring job is 10x harder because the trimmings will stick to the scissors. If a plant wilts before you get around to manicuring, you may as well let it dry fully (by hanging or bud dryer) before trying to trim off any unwanted leaf material. Dried leaves are stiff and are much easier to trim than floppy, wilted leaves.

Soon as the buds are dry, they're ready to smoke. There's no real need to 'age' buds. In fact, THC content will be at its peak at the moment you take the plant down. You're not going to get any _*more*_ THC by 'aging.' If anything, the treatment after manicuring and drying tends to reduce THC levels by breaking it down into other less psychoactive cannabinoids like CBD. Keeping your air temps under 29C and protecting drying buds from exposure to light, whether hang-drying or using a dryer, will best preserve the THC content.

Smoothness or harshness of smoking quality is determined by the amount of water left in the buds. A little bit of humidity left in the buds will make them smoke more smoothly as it slows the burning a little (this is the main reason why cigars are kept in humidors). If you stop the drying process when the buds are just a tiny bit springy, they will have just enough water left in them to make them smooth and flavourful to smoke. 

If you do accidentally overdry to the point of crispiness/crumbliness, you can put a tiny bit of water back in the buds by nesting a paper towel with a teaspoon of water in the buds, all in a Tupperware type container or a plastic bag. It takes some practice with the dryer to get the moisture content perfect every time, but anyone can work it out after a few tries. The main thing is that if you do accidentally overdry, it's reversible in an hour or two. 

I realise that cannabis 'curing' myths have been around for a long time, but I'd invite anyone to do a side-by-side comparison of hang-dried and 'aged' buds against buds dried in a low-temp dryer/dehydrator. If you can pick the difference at all, it's probably because you can taste a tiny hint of mould in the hang-dried buds.


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## hearmenow (Mar 27, 2007)

That's some very useful here, Al. Thanks for taking the time. 

Fyi, regarding overdried buds, I usually put a couple slivers of carrot in with the buds overnight and they return to their springy soft texture.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 27, 2007)

cannabis curing is a "myth"? careful with your statements please.

i have first hand knowledge of this and you are mistaken. chlorophyll determines harshness as much as water. if water even determines it. buds are full of chlorophyll all the way thru. my buds turn GOLD after six months of curing and the flavor and smoothness is NOTICABLY better. 

i would like to know where you found your info. you seem so certain on it's truth.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 27, 2007)

no problem, hmn. 

Rehydrating overdry buds can be done a number of different ways; a slice of apple, carrot, even some orange peel can be used. 

I use a paper towel and a few ml of plain water as I don't like to add any 'foreign flavours' to my buds, but that's personal preference. I don't put A1 sauce on my steaks, either.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 27, 2007)

fdd2blk said:


> i would like to know where you found your info. you seem so certain on it's truth.


On-the-job training! 

I've tried just about every sensible suggestion and some that aren't so sensible. 

Getting the moisture content right is the biggest part of it all. 

This much is indisputable- THC breaks down into less or even non-psychoactive cannabinoids not just with exposure to light and high temps, but (to a lesser degree) with time. Fresher dope is better dope. _*Bumper stickers should be issued!*_ (apologies to Neil Young)

Conversion of THC into other cannabinoids isn't _always_ a bad thing- some research has been done by med users into THC/CBD balance and it was found that non-THC cannabinoids were preferred for some medical uses. THC & other cannabinoids have differing psychoactive effects; I find that freshly and properly dried buds give me my favoured light & wacky headbuzz. CBD and others are associated with more stoney, body buzz type highs.

fdd2blk, I don't mean to disrespect your experience, but most of the positive qualities touted in curing and aging can be replicated with much less time. The most noticeable quality to smokers is smoothness- and that's the easiest part to sort out, simply by getting the moisture content right.

I can see your point about chlorophyll, but I think you'll find that there's much more of the stuff by weight in the leaf material than in the empty seed bracts we call buds. Leaves are much darker green than bracts/bud material due to the chlorophyll content. One thing that aging definitely does do that my dryer won't is break down chlorophyll- that IS something which takes time. However, the strain I'm presently growing (Sweet Tooth #4, Spice Of Life Seeds) is a very pleasant smoke right out of the dryer.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 27, 2007)

i appreciate that this didn't turn into a fight. much respect. 

i guess my main objective IS chloropyhll break down. 

i do my best to cause as little degradation as possible. stored in sealed jars in the dark under controlled temps. 

i know a guy who turns on his dehumidifier and heater. get's his room at 70 degrees and 0 humidity. then he throws in 3 lbs of primo medical grade and literally sucks it dry. when you pinch it to roll a doobie it just goes POOOOF! and turns to powder. that's my issue. 

i'll admit i've used low heat and fans to get to a point of curing. and using a quick dry method for the first half of drying may be something to look into on my end. 

i'm still a little doubtful though. 

just an old dog i guess.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 27, 2007)

fdd2blk, sorry to raise your hackles, anyway. Wasn't my intent. Apologies if you've taken offence.

The suckiest part of cannabis prohibition is that everything surrounding it really has to be underground. This doesn't do much for advancing the art. You'll agree that there's quite a lot of unsubstantiable garbage information floating around regarding pot, from growing to rolling. Sometimes you just gotta do it yourself until you sort out what works. 

I'm not so ready to dismiss all this information, good and bad, down to personal preference. I tend to investigate and experiment when I get new information. I'm no scientist, but I do understand the scientific method and use it to make my assessments. 

My op is not huge, but it does make enough spare buds that I can dork around with some of them to try out different things, even if it means I waste some. That's how the dryer came about. I was also extremely skeptical about what a dryer would do to the smoking qualities. My standard technique at the time was hang-drying and then storing the buds in a tightly sealed Tupperware in a dark, cool place. However, as I said in the first post in this thread, having them hanging about being all stinky for a couple of weeks was a security hazard. Something had to be done- and the low-temp dryer has worked out to be the best solution, with no compromises over smoking quality. 

Once again, sorry to cheese you off!


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## sequento (Mar 27, 2007)

i heard that is gonna dry that shit out too much anyone cure there weed or too impatient ?


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 27, 2007)

sequento, read back over the thread- and you'll see why the dryer doesn't overdry (with proper attention) nor damage THC content.


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## fdd2blk (Mar 27, 2007)

fdd2blk said:


> i appreciate that this didn't turn into a fight. much respect.
> ...
> ...


 
i am not cheesed. i have a way with words. i felt no pain. i am good my friend.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 27, 2007)

coolio.


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## courtcourt420 (Mar 30, 2007)

Hey Al b. Just an update for ya. we werent able to switch the fans around this time, but the bud did dry in a week. its great!!


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 30, 2007)

cc420, so you still have 2 fans drawing out and a bunch of holes letting air in? When you find the time, tape up those holes and turn one of the fans around. I think that will speed it up even more. However, adding the means of putting a small amount of heat into the intake air will make it even faster.


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## courtcourt420 (Mar 30, 2007)

yeah, for sure. We will switch it up after the other baby gets done. this was a quick idea cuz we needed to harvest them. but im really glad we did. What do you suggest adding for the heat? working on a budget


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 30, 2007)

Probably the least expensive way to make up an air warmer unit is to buy a cheap 25 watt (no bigger) soldering iron and clamp it *firmly* to a heatsink. Mount the heatsink to the intake fan as shown in my dwgs & photos in the first post so air is drawn through the fins and into the box.

Heatsinks are pretty expensive. The one I am using came out of my junkbox, but probably is worth about $40-50. You can make one easily and cheaply out of aluminum sheet (1/8" thick is good). Cut some sheets of aluminum to a convenient size, bend them into progressively smaller "U" shapes and bolt them together. 







Use an incandescent light dimmer to control temp. A standard light dimmer should be able to handle at least 100W, so it will handle the 25W soldering iron element (also a resistive load, just like an incandescent light bulb) with no trouble. 

Follow the wiring diagram I included in the first post in this thread. Substitute the heating element from a soldering iron in place of the two power resistors.


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## Hermes (Mar 30, 2007)

awesome info Al b.

would you consider yourself a "macguyver" grower? you seem to be able to knock something useful up out of nothing.

can you build me a house?


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 30, 2007)

Hermes said:


> awesome info Al b.


Thanks. 



> would you consider yourself a "macguyver" grower? you seem to be able to knock something useful up out of nothing.


heh... I sorta am, but I only 'MacGuyver' stuff when what I want isn't commercially made or is priced far beyond its value. 



> can you build me a house?


Yeah, you got a box of paper clips and a couple of coathangers?


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## potroast (Mar 31, 2007)

Hey Al, do you have Macguyver Down Under?


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 31, 2007)

Australia is the 51st US state... We get so damn much US 'culture' (_ahem!_) that we all ought to at _*least*_ get a vote in the presidential elections. 

You guys can keep ya bloody dancing Karl Rove, tho...


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## Al B. Fuct (Apr 4, 2007)

Just thought of a different way to homebrew a heatsink. 

For this application, a single strip of 1/8 or thinner aluminum sheet, around 12" x 4", can be rolled up around the soldering iron element, forming a spiral heatsink. 

You'll have to be clever in how you clamp the soldering iron to the sheeting and how you attach it to the intake fan (epoxy, perhaps?), but it would be an even easier way to make this bit.


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## Al B. Fuct (Apr 5, 2007)

The clamp portion of the spiral heatsink:


click for larger size image

Form the aluminum sheet around a drill bit of the same diameter as the soldering iron element. Form a lip that can be drilled and fitted with 4-40, 6-32 or similar size stainless steel nuts and machine screws to create a clamp. 

When the aluminum sheet has been clamped FIRMLY to the sheeting, roll the sheet up around the iron element to create a spiral heating element for many uses.

Temperature of this heater assembly can be controlled with a standard incandescent light dimmer.


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## eatspam (Apr 17, 2007)

ever thought about scraping up all the resin for s last resort smoke?


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 27, 2007)

did you know Hawiian's buy more spam than any other state? DOn't know if the eat it though.VV


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## abudsmoker (Apr 27, 2007)

after 5 years go old time is my prefered method. if you cant wait 14 more days dont grow it


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 28, 2007)

Thats great that you prefer your old method. It doesn't give you any reason to tell the rest of us not to grow if we don't want to wait. VV


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## Lacy (Oct 18, 2007)

*Thats sophisticated sh*t. *


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## VictorVIcious (Oct 18, 2007)

easily duplicated. Al does know his s**t though. VV


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## disasterstrikes (Dec 11, 2007)

Very creative...i have to ask is there a way to modify this dryer to use during Veg and/or flower stage. I assume the heatsink has to be removed. Will the intake and exhaust fans do justice for air circulation in those stages. I want to be able to remove the heatsink and re-attach when necessary.


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## VictorVIcious (Dec 11, 2007)

what are you smokin? VV


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## 000420 (Dec 15, 2007)

disasterstrikes said:


> Very creative...i have to ask is there a way to modify this dryer to use during Veg and/or flower stage. I assume the heatsink has to be removed. Will the intake and exhaust fans do justice for air circulation in those stages. I want to be able to remove the heatsink and re-attach when necessary.


Why would you use a bud dryer in the veg or flower stage????????...it's for the drying the bud stage....


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## GoodFriend (Dec 15, 2007)

would a cardboard box work the same for this?

what ya'll think???

that'd be easy...


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## disasterstrikes (Dec 16, 2007)

000420 said:


> Why would you use a bud dryer in the veg or flower stage????????...it's for the drying the bud stage....



HAHA...nah its not like that...i was referring to using the same concept same design, but with modifications. Anyway ever since then i went ahead and implemented my idea of using two computer fans on opposite sides of a storage box for AIR CIRCULATION. I left out the heat source, so its just good old room temperature air flowing thru.


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## 000420 (Dec 16, 2007)

disasterstrikes said:


> HAHA...nah its not like that...i was referring to using the same concept same design, but with modifications. Anyway ever since then i went ahead and implemented my idea of using two computer fans on opposite sides of a storage box for AIR CIRCULATION. I left out the heat source, so its just good old room temperature air flowing thru.


LOL..ok i see, I saw another one of your posts on another thread.... now i see what you meant....LOL....i was thinking what the hell? at first...LOL


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## OGdreams (Dec 16, 2007)

hey al
idk much about electronics but you said its posible to wire a dimmer switch to a power strip, if you can do that couldnt you plug a comercial dehydrator into the strip and just lower the temp with dimmer and use a thermometer to get it to 29c???


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## sportsguy1598 (Feb 24, 2008)

Hey Al I'm not very good with electronics at all do you think you could walk me through this dryer with terms that are a little bit dumbed down please? Thanks!


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## nobody (Feb 25, 2008)

so was there a page on how u built in the switch, like what parts i can buy


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## VictorVIcious (Feb 25, 2008)

nobody said:


> so was there a page on how u built in the switch, like what parts i can buy


well, not to jump Al's thread, yes there is. I used the idea's Al presents, the heat source is a food dehydrator. And unless you are going to spend several hundred dollars on one, you will have to make your own temperature control. I posted the build in DIY. Al's electric supply is 220..ok 240 then. VV


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 21, 2008)

hmm, I haven't checked into this thread for a while...

Let's catch up... but I think I'll leave out any commentary on the use of ye olde bud dryer as a grow box. 



OGdreams said:


> hey al
> idk much about electronics but you said its posible to wire a dimmer switch to a power strip, if you can do that couldnt you plug a comercial dehydrator into the strip and just lower the temp with dimmer and use a thermometer to get it to 29c???


 No, because the commercial dehydrator will have a fan motor in it, which is incompatible with the incandescent dimmer used for the heating element. If the fan motor is run on a light dimmer, it will spin at full speed when the dimmer is set to full voltage and will stall when the dimmer is dialed down, even a little. Dimmers are not designed to handle inductive loads found in motors, only purely resistive loads as found in an incandescent lamp filament or a plain ol resistor.

If you want to use a commercially made unit, you will have to open it up and put the dimmer in series with the dehydrator's heating element. Putting the dimmer in the feed to the entire unit will wreck the motor, if it spins at all. 



sportsguy1598 said:


> Hey Al I'm not very good with electronics at all do you think you could walk me through this dryer with terms that are a little bit dumbed down please? Thanks!


How much dumber do you need it? There's a schematic circuit representation on page 1 of the thread; this is the clearest and simplest way I know of to communicate a wiring diagram. Just follow the black lines- those are wires! 

If you're in doubt of how to wire this up, seriously, don't try it. There's mains AC voltage present in this ckt and it can be very dangerous if wired wrong or if your fingers touch the wrong stuff when it is live. This was drafted for folks who have the basic electrical understanding necessary to install a light dimmer without killing themselves! 



nobody said:


> so was there a page on how u built in the switch, like what parts i can buy


I didn't build the dimmer 'switch' (they are not switches, I hate that term). It's just a dirt-common, 500W incandescent dimmer from a hdwe store.



VictorVIcious said:


> well, not to jump Al's thread, yes there is. I used the idea's Al presents, the heat source is a food dehydrator. And unless you are going to spend several hundred dollars on one, you will have to make your own temperature control. I posted the build in DIY. Al's electric supply is 220..ok 240 then. VV


My AC mains voltage is 240V. However, the ckt as drawn will work for 120V. If building from scratch, just use resistors of 1/2 the value I specified for 240V. 

If modifying a commercially made dehydrator unit, just put an incandescent light dimmer in series with the heating element in the dehydrator (cut one lead going to the htg element and wire in the dimmer). 

The commercial dehydrator's thermostat may not go low enough to suit 29C; be prepared to disconnect the thermostat from the commercial unit and replace it with something more appropriate, like the Jaycar QT7200. 

Folks clever with a soldering iron can open up the QT7200, desolder the little blue thermistor, lengthen its leads with some 2-conductor speaker wire and put the thermistor in the airflow in the dehydrator unit. This way, the entire thermostat unit does not have to be mounted inside the dehydrator, just its thermistor. The QT7200 unit can then be mounted to the exterior of the dehydrator, allowing one to see the LCD temp display and allowing easy access to the temp control buttons.

BudDryer v1.0 has gone through another engineering pass (now called BudDryer v2.0) and has been fully rebuilt since I wrote this, inclusive of installing a modified QT7200, the thermistor remote mounted as described above. There's now 6x 25W resistors in parallel on the heatsink, both fans have been replaced with Sunon 120mm axials and some knee-hi stockings have been put over the air inlet to the heatsink to keep gnats and dust out of it. 

Sorry, I wish I could make this simpler, but it really _*can't*_ be made much simpler! You DO need some basic electrical/electronic skills to build this critter or mod up a commercially made unit. If you are not confident with your skills, find someone who is or find another way to dry your buds.


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## Lacy (Mar 21, 2008)

_yes. I hate moldy weed. I had to throw out about 4 ounces of my weed last year due to mold so this year I want to build myself a good bud dryer._
_Thnaks for this thread. Someone else gave me a link one day a while ago._


Al B. Fuct said:


> Taste is just the same as hang dried except that there's no possibility of mould... and I really hate the taste of mould- and can pick it up in tiny amounts. The humidity around here is often so high that hang-drying can take a couple of weeks, meaning there's always a tiny hint of mould in my hang-dried buds.
> 
> The texture of buds run through my dryer is no different to hang-dried. I dry them until there is just a little bit of springyness left in the buds, not quite to the point where they crumble or break apart.
> 
> ...


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 21, 2008)

Lacy said:


> yes. I hate moldy weed. I had to throw out about 4 ounces of my weed last year due to mold so this year I want to build myself a good bud dryer.Thnaks for this thread. Someone else gave me a link one day a while ago.


no prob, Lacy.

Whether you make your own from scratch or mod up a food dehydrator, the only trick to making it work well is to limit the temp to 29C. Once you get a feel for your particular unit, you'll be able to predict the finishing time to the hour. 

We've had an awful lot of slow, steady rain recently. Avg ambient RH has been well above 85% for a couple of weeks. Got a clothesline under the porch roof but can't even get clothes to dry. I'd be screwed without the dryer when we get monsoons like this. It'd take a cpl weeks to get 'em smokable. Even in wet weather, the dryer gets a load of buds done in 4 days max.


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## Danny Eire (Mar 31, 2008)

would this do?? u can clearly see it says 29degrees in the description Excalibur 5 Tray Dehydrator White


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 31, 2008)

Yes, if that dehydrator will stay down to 29C, it will do, but [FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA]£179.00 is DEAR. If you could not build one like mine for 20 quid with brand new parts, I've be very surprised.
[/FONT]


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## Tokesalot (Mar 31, 2008)

I made one of these dryers with a 30gal tupperwear bin, and some old screen. 2 PC fans. It's day 2, and all the little buds i threw in there are smokeable 

Smells nice, and hits like a champ.


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## herby2000 (Mar 31, 2008)

Nice design... I was also building myself one but I'm thinking of using only one fan...

Can we use passive intake instead of using a fan?

Also is the smell an issue during drying?


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 31, 2008)

tokes, good to hear.  

Be careful about 'false dry' buds, tho. The outside of the buds will of course dry first. I don't consider them truly dry, safe to bag (or jar) up for long-term storage with no chance of mould, unless the stems snap instead of just bend. 

I dry mine until the very outer parts of the buds are crispy dry but there's still a little bit of bendyness left in the stems, then I chuck them in a tupperware for a day or so. Moisture will wick out of stems and through the buds, making their moisture content even and returning the bud material to a springy condition, ready to store or smoke.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 31, 2008)

herby2000 said:


> Nice design... I was also building myself one but I'm thinking of using only one fan...
> 
> Can we use passive intake instead of using a fan?
> 
> Also is the smell an issue during drying?


Yes, you could do it with just one fan drawing air out of the box. 

Scent is always an issue when drying buds. However, the dryer mixes large volumes of air with scents, dissipating them- _somewhat_. 

Ozone is extremely effective at killing scents. I have placed a UV fluoro ozonator (a Uvonair 3000) near my dryer's output so air from the dryer is immediately mixed with O3. Kills scents _*dead.*_ I can (and often do) have a pound or more in my dryer and you absolutely won't know it's there, even if you are in the same room with it.


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## Tokesalot (Mar 31, 2008)

For sure dude. I put about 30g's wet in there, and i just weighed out 19g. I just put em in a jar. They smell sweet.


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 31, 2008)

That's not quite as much water weight loss as I would expect. I usually figure on losing about 75% of wet weight when they are fully dry. Check your buds again in a day or two just to make sure they were not 'false dry' as I mentioned above. 

All homebrew dryers like this will perform slightly differently unless all the bits used are identical to mine. 2 days in the dryer sounds a bit short, but your fans could be moving more air, your intake air could have been lower humidity, etc, accounting for faster performance. Usually takes 3 days for my dryer to bring freshly trimmed buds to smokable water content levels.


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## jtinnean (Mar 31, 2008)

I'm a few weeks away from flowering, which puts me quite a few weeks away from curing. But I want to build one of these units in time, just wondering what the estimated parts cost would be? If starting from scratch with nothing, could i get a parts list? Also, as for the hanging the racks from the lid. Have you thought about attaching a drawer/cupboard handle to the lid? And the maybe have a hanging hook above nearby to hang it from while you transport to and from the dryer. I've got many more questions about this project, but I'll wait for a reply before getting to them. Thanks for taking the time


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 31, 2008)

Hmm... if you had to buy all parts new... just guessing some of these prices...

30-50L storage tub - $10
120mm fans - $17/ea (qty 2)
wire mesh (hdwe cloth), 1/2" grid - about $10/roll
open link jack chain - $8/pkg
resistors, 680 ohm, 25W - $5/ea (qty 6)
500W incandescent light dimmer - $12
150mm x 75mm x 45mm aluminum heatsink - $20
Thermostat - $40
__________
Total $167

There's a lot of wiggle room to use cheaper bits as well as second-hand parts to save money. Improvise! I sure did.  

You're only making some slightly warmed air and moving it through a box- doesn't even need to go up to 29C, just needs to be a couple degrees above ambient to drop humidity and dry buds fast. You could use 100mm, 12V computer fans instead of ball bearing 120mm units, could use only one fan, etc. It will work best with the components I list, tho. 

I don't like the hanging racks. One hand has to hold the lid & racks in the air while loading with the other hand. I used this arrangement because it was most practical given the materials I had on hand when I built the first version of the dryer in 2000. You could get some stackable freestanding plastic racks that could sit in the bottom of the tub instead of being hung from the lid. Probably cheaper than buying a roll of hdwe cloth and a packet of jack chain, too.


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## BRSkunk (Mar 31, 2008)

is there any chance you could use a intake hole, and a exhaust fan but put a heater inside the box set on like 25*? like a fishtank heater down on bottom on the box?


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## Al B. Fuct (Mar 31, 2008)

Fish tank heaters are designed to run immersed in water. If you try to run one outside a tank of water, it'll pop in seconds. 

What's an electric heater? A big spanking resistor. 

My plan has you make your own heater, cos it's as simple as bolting some aluminum body resistors to a heatsink and connecting them with wire.


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## BRSkunk (Mar 31, 2008)

ah didnt know that... hrmmm! just wanted a simpler way with pre bought heater etc... not having to make up my own


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## sens1 (Apr 1, 2008)

Nice.
By using this process, do you still need to cure or is it all over in 3 days and roll a fatty?



.


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## Al B. Fuct (Apr 1, 2008)

sens1 said:


> Nice.
> By using this process, do you still need to cure or is it all over in 3 days and roll a fatty?


Wet manicured bud to smoke in 3 days.


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## Al B. Fuct (Apr 1, 2008)

BRSkunk said:


> ah didnt know that... hrmmm! just wanted a simpler way with pre bought heater etc... not having to make up my own


I made my own because I could not find a heater assembly with a LOW enough output. I only needed about 80-100 watts worth of heat to get my coldest winter temp (12C) air in the dryer's area up to 29C.


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## BRSkunk (Apr 1, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> I made my own because I could not find a heater assembly with a LOW enough output. I only needed about 80-100 watts worth of heat to get my coldest winter temp (12C) air in the dryer's area up to 29C.


i suck bigtime at trying to understand the whole concept...! of putting together your own heater thats why i was after a pre-made/storebought one... just wondering would just having circulating air? and putting ur drybox into a heated room work... if room temp is around the 27 - 29 mark?

maybe a heat rock or like reptile enclosure light?

also i was looking on the net and found some herb drying machines from like a hydro site, and they have only got a exhaust fan? no heat and apprently it drys em within hours? this possible?


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## Al B. Fuct (Apr 1, 2008)

BRSkunk said:


> i suck bigtime at trying to understand the whole concept...! of putting together your own heater thats why i was after a pre-made/storebought one... just wondering would just having circulating air? and putting ur drybox into a heated room work... if room temp is around the 27 - 29 mark?


Sure, that'd work fine. 



> maybe a heat rock or like reptile enclosure light?


No lights! Buds must have total darkness. Light exposure breaks down THC.



> also i was looking on the net and found some herb drying machines from like a hydro site, and they have only got a exhaust fan? no heat and apprently it drys em within hours? this possible?


Got a link?

'Hours' to me conveys a notion of at least less than a day. To dry that fast would not only require adding heat but would require temps well above 29C.


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## BRSkunk (Apr 1, 2008)

Mini Quick Herb Dryer by Homegrown Hydroponics

But would a heat rock work? or a couple to get the temp up?


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## Al B. Fuct (Apr 1, 2008)

BRSkunk said:


> Mini Quick Herb Dryer by Homegrown Hydroponics


nah, no way that tupperware tub & a cheeeep duct fan will dry buds in less than a day. 

Saw the price- $350!!!  Hey- I'll build you one and only charge you $325! 

I can NOT believe they are asking HUNDREDS to THOUSANDS for these stupid boxes with fans. How fucking dopey do they think we are?

I may have been born at night... but it sure as fuck wasn't LAST night. 



> But would a heat rock work? or a couple to get the temp up?


I've never seen a heat rock. Does it heat air or does it just get a bit warm to give your iguana something to cosy up against? If it's the latter, it's not a good air warmer.


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## BRSkunk (Apr 1, 2008)

would this sort of thing work? if it was able to be kept at right temp?

2000 watt FAN HEATER - eBay, Heaters, Appliances, Home. (end time 06-Apr-08 13:50:07 AEST)

IXL 72030 Jetstream Fan Heater 2200 watt - eBay, Heaters, Appliances, Home. (end time 05-Apr-08 13:56:56 AEST)


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## Al B. Fuct (Apr 1, 2008)

BRSkunk said:


> would this sort of thing work? if it was able to be kept at right temp?


IF it was able to be kept at the right temp... but with 2000-2200W, you'll have _*Buckley's*_ chance of that! You need less than 5% of that power! I don't think the thermostat would shut it down fast enough before air temp far exceeded 29C. If the heating element were under 500W, you might be able to open up the heater and install an incandescent dimmer on wiring to the heating element itself (NOT the entire heater, inline with the power cord- the fan motor would _*not*_ like the dimmer much)... but even on LOW these blow heaters are pulling 1000W. This is why I built my own heating element! 

Really- this is not hard! Can you rewire a lamp? Can you install a dimmer? If so, you can do this! You may even learn how to solder, if you don't know how already! 

The short answer is no- they won't work. They will cook your buds, evaporate your resin & destroy what THC is left.


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## SomeGuy (Apr 2, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> ...Really- this is not hard! Can you rewire a lamp? Can you install a dimmer? If so, you can do this! You may even learn how to solder, if you don't know how already!
> 
> The short answer is no- they won't work. They will cook your buds, evaporate your resin & destroy what THC is left.



I built one of your dryers out of a rubbermaid bin but I didn't have the stuff to do a heater element just yet. I took a bunch of fan leafs that I cut off and the bottoms of some clones to test it out anyway. Even without the element I can get the stems to snap in about 6 days with no mold (I had a big pile of leaf in there). I'm thinking about putting the dryer near my grow room exhaust port as the air from there is slightly warmer than ambient air. Looking into how I might rig a soldering iron element too.. got an old one laying around somewhere  Thanks for the Info man! Rep 4 U! I'm so stoked  my first indoor cut day is may 10th


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## Al B. Fuct (Apr 2, 2008)

SG, good deal. 6 days to dry without a heater sounds about right. 

Putting the dryer in or near your warm exhaust airstream is good and bad; it's free heat, but that air is carrying humidity from the grow- and possibly mould spores. If your buds dry quickly, you won't care how many spores land on your buds as mould won't have time to grow. 

You won't have much control over the air temp being fed into your dryer if you take a feed out of your exhaust. If you can be assured that the air coming into the dryer is no warmer than 29C, it's one way to avoid installing the heating element, but you can't control that with a thermostat. 

Glad you find the concept useful- and good onya for building your own and not getting sucked in by the $350-1500 bud dryer ripoff artists!


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## SomeGuy (Apr 2, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Glad you find the concept useful- and good onya for building your own and not getting sucked in by the $350-1500 bud dryer ripoff artists!


LOL.. there is not a chance in HELL i would buy one of those! This seems like it will work just fine for now without the element... I can wait a week , Ive got other things needed more. I want to upgrade my exhaust fan and build a cool tube to go inline. What started out as a project to see if I can do it, is turning into an on-going hobby. I think I am set up right now to do 3 harvests this summer. In fall I want to go SOG on a small scale.. maybe 2 plants ever 2 weeks or 4 every 3 with a hope for 1oz per. I was thinking hydro but my closet may not lend itself to that very easily... Plus I know NOTHING about hydro. Ive learned a ton about indoor from my current grow and this site. I didnt have very good begginers luck either. Only 4 turned out to be female out of 13.


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## Al B. Fuct (Apr 2, 2008)

SomeGuy said:


> LOL.. there is not a chance in HELL i would buy one of those!


PT Barnum said there's a sucker born every minute. Time marches on- they're born every _second_ these days.  

I was MOST amused to see these thieves' 'April Fools Day Specials.' Wow, they lopped $1000 off their $1500 storage tub with a fan...  Yeah, THESE are selling like hotcakes... 



> This seems like it will work just fine for now without the element... I can wait a week


It'll work, as you've found, but it'll work better with a heating element that can be maintained at 29C. Once your other upgrades are out of the way, give it some thought. 


> What started out as a project to see if I can do it, is turning into an on-going hobby.


Man... you and everyone else! If you're not careful, it'll turn into your occupation. I can think of worse jobs, tho- can't you? 



> I think I am set up right now to do 3 harvests this summer. In fall I want to go SOG on a small scale.. maybe 2 plants ever 2 weeks or 4 every 3 with a hope for 1oz per. I was thinking hydro but my closet may not lend itself to that very easily... Plus I know NOTHING about hydro. Ive learned a ton about indoor from my current grow and this site. I didnt have very good begginers luck either. Only 4 turned out to be female out of 13.


Hydroponics is easier than you think, particularly flood hydro- not much harder than soil. You will need pH & ppm meters and cal solns and of course nutes, 50% grade H2O2 and pHDown sauce, but that's about it. The start-up costs are higher than soil- but the rewards of high productivity and conveniences of cheap, easy to dispose, lightweight media so you can use fresh every time more than compensate.

Once you're hooked on 'ponics, you'll never look back.


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## BRSkunk (Apr 2, 2008)

from harvest to snap i can do in like 5days without a dryer? this possible because i swear in my climate it happens...


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## Al B. Fuct (Apr 2, 2008)

oh, I believe it- conditions as needed to dry that fast in ambient air happen here too from time to time. However, when that happens here, tis because the ambient air temps are well above 29C and RH is in the scary single digit percents that favour bushfires.


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## SomeGuy (Apr 4, 2008)

> I was MOST amused to see these thieves' 'April Fools Day Specials.' Wow, they lopped $1000 off their $1500 storage tub with a fan...  Yeah, THESE are selling like hotcakes...


LOL That some crazy shit. The most expensive thing in my grow so far is lighting. I build mine out of a bunch of shit I had laying around... total cost: FREEEEEE! 




> It'll work, as you've found, but it'll work better with a heating element that can be maintained at 29C. Once your other upgrades are out of the way, give it some thought.


This will happen eventually as I know I will hate waiting 7 days over 3.




> Man... you and everyone else! If you're not careful, it'll turn into your occupation. I can think of worse jobs, tho- can't you?


Ive done worse jobs. I came back for graduate school so I can do what I would like to. But I don't think I could ever look at growing as a job, its just too damn much fun. Work is what needs to happen to fill the void between the things I WANT to do...LOL



> Hydroponics is easier than you think, particularly flood hydro- not much harder than soil. You will need pH & ppm meters and cal solns and of course nutes, 50% grade H2O2 and pHDown sauce, but that's about it. The start-up costs are higher than soil- but the rewards of high productivity and conveniences of cheap, easy to dispose, lightweight media so you can use fresh every time more than compensate.
> 
> Once you're hooked on 'ponics, you'll never look back.


Well.. it still keeps crossing my mind every time I have to haul the plants to the bathtub to feed/flush etc.. Can you suggest some reading material that I could study for a bit? I really dont like buying soil in winter. Only problem is no hydro shop here so everything will have to be mail order..

BTW.. here is a link to a thread I started: https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/62394-1st-indoor-progress-flowering-propagation.html
It has some pictures of my space and how its divided. Check it out and let me know what you think. Im gonna go hit the Sobe


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## Al B. Fuct (Apr 4, 2008)

Mail ordering can get very exxy, particularly for weighty items like media and nutes. I have to drive 200km round trip to my hydro shop, $25-30 worth of petrol in me old ute, but I can buy months' worth of supplies at a time. I only go a few times a year. It'd cost $25 just to get a bag of Fytocell and some nutes out here by courier. 

If it's at all possible, you may want to drive to the next town where there IS a hydro shop rather than paying S&H rates.

Some growing methods, while truly most suitable for advanced growers, eliminate all media. Aeroponic systems can be medialess, so you really only need nutes and H2O2. Buy your nutes in 25L jugs and you may only need to go to a hydro shop 1x a year. 

The GrowFAQ is as good a place as any for comparative analyses of hydro systems.


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## SomeGuy (Apr 4, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Mail ordering can get very exxy, particularly for weighty items like media and nutes. I have to drive 200km round trip to my hydro shop, $25-30 worth of petrol in me old ute, but I can buy months' worth of supplies at a time. I only go a few times a year. It'd cost $25 just to get a bag of Fytocell and some nutes out here by courier.
> 
> If it's at all possible, you may want to drive to the next town where there IS a hydro shop rather than paying S&H rates.
> 
> ...


Thanks Al, Ill start reading up. Ive checked into aero and bubble... Looks simple so I may rig something up.


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## Al B. Fuct (Apr 4, 2008)

SomeGuy said:


> Thanks Al, Ill start reading up. Ive checked into aero and bubble... Looks simple so I may rig something up.


Be careful- like I said, aero etc are really best for advanced growers with a good understanding of hydroponics. Medialess systems are sensitive to things that those with pots of absorbent media will not be as sensitive to. DWC (bubblers), aero & NFT require close monitoring and control of nute soln strength, pH and temp. 

However, DWC/bubble has a particular Achilles heel- it requires a 24/7 air supply to bubble curtains or air stones. A power or air pump failure lasting more than about 4-6 hours can kill every plant in a DWC because the roots are constantly submerged in a nute solution. Loss of aeration, through power or pump failure, is big trouble. Redundant pumps and even backup power for them are not bad ideas for DWC.

The most fault-tolerant systems of all are flood and wick systems. They don't care so much about res temps, but pH & nute strengths still need to be maintained in a range. A water pump in a flood sys can quit but you will still have 24-48 hours to catch it before there's any big problems. Wick systems have no pumps at all.


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## shorty45 (Apr 4, 2008)

awesome set up, might try at next harvest


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## GoodFriend (Apr 4, 2008)

al b... what do you think about using small hempy buckets for a sog? any experience with 'em?


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## Al B. Fuct (Apr 4, 2008)

No experience with them, LJI. Their evangelists swear Hempys do not rot roots, but the bottoms of the pots are flooded all the time. Counterintuitive. If you need a pumpless system, a wick is a surer thing IMO.


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## DaSprout (Apr 4, 2008)

lumberjack_ian said:


> al b... what do you think about using small hempy buckets for a sog? any experience with 'em?


You planning on going "hempy" LI?
I think I might have the hempy itch also. I planning on trying a couple in the left over spaces in the op i'm assembling.

Irradiate


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## VictorVIcious (Apr 4, 2008)

I gotta say this is the funniest bud dryer conversation I have ever witnessed, preachon Brother Al. Did you notice I finally bought a ph meter. It hasn't been 2 years yet. VV


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## GoodFriend (Apr 5, 2008)

DaSprout said:


> You planning on going "hempy" LI?
> I think I might have the hempy itch also. I planning on trying a couple in the left over spaces in the op i'm assembling.
> 
> Irradiate


haha
been doing

and i have not seen any effects of root rot...but i do let the internal "res" mostly dry out before rewatering...


al... once i get enough moms to make enough cuts and am proficient enough at rooting, i'm going to start runs of a true SOG with 0 veg time... as of now i'm vegging out plant 8-12 inches tall then lollypopping them with like 1/sq ft... i'll be sure to let you knwo how it turns out (32 oz. cups filled with perlite hempy style, i'm looking for really simply fairly fault resistent growing here)

my buddy was thinking of rigging up an ebb and flow setup to actually water hempy buckets... filling up the containers through the drainage hole on each and flooding out the same hole when draining... basically setting up an automated watering system for the buckets without messing with drippers that would seem to get clogged easier than a pump used for E&F...
plus the flood would only need to occur every other day or so, because of the internal res' of the hempy buckets...

i dunno whats gonna happen, but i find it quite interesting...
oh, and sorry for the bit of a thread jack...


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## GoodFriend (Apr 5, 2008)

VictorVIcious said:


> *I gotta say this is the funniest bud dryer conversation I have ever witnessed,* preachon Brother Al. Did you notice I finally bought a ph meter. It hasn't been 2 years yet. VV


to be honest.... i think i was quite high and fairly confused and thought this was his SOG thread.... whoops


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## GoodFriend (Apr 5, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> No experience with them, LJI. Their evangelists swear Hempys do not rot roots, but the bottoms of the pots are flooded all the time. Counterintuitive. I*f you need a pumpless system, a wick is a surer thing IMO.*


a wick system require just that though... a wick.... haha

actually i'm interested in setting up a wick cloner and seeing how that works out for me... i'm having a hard time keeping a medium moist without being over wet except for my bubble cloner but thats even a bit shotty and i'm only like 60% with my clones or so....


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## Al B. Fuct (Apr 5, 2008)

lumberjack_ian said:


> haha
> 
> oh, and sorry for the bit of a thread jack...


cool, but wd be nice if this one went back to being about bud dryers.


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## kenaz (Apr 16, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Fish tank heaters are designed to run immersed in water. If you try to run one outside a tank of water, it'll pop in seconds.


What about two strips of 11" Flexwatt or a reptile heating pad on the top and bottom of your dryer, along with either a dimmer or a thermostat and a thermometer? 

There are heat mats which are designed to be attached to aquariums with adhesive and which don't get too hot. (Generally, these are made of Flexwatt, which is also used for deicing purposes). And I've seen cheap thermostats at pet stores for under $35. 

Just a thought, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.


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## Al B. Fuct (Apr 16, 2008)

The problem with heating pads and the like is that they are designed to transfer heat by contact, with your iguana, for example. They are not designed to transfer the heat they make into air- and won't do it very well. 

A bud dryer needs to warm the airstream going through it to reduce its RH & thus make it more able to pick up moisture from the buds. This is why I used a warmed heatsink, which by virtue of its large surface area and fin shape is specifically designed to shift heat into a flowing airmass.


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## weedyoo (Apr 18, 2008)

i just made mine with a box and string across the top then a fan in and out and i suck the heat off my monter


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## DrGreenFinger (May 7, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> correction... I just found an old photo of this dryer in operation back in 2000- it has been in use for 7 years.
> 
> I don't even want to know how much dope this thing has processed! It would be a _whole_ lot!
> 
> I've had as much as 16oz dry weight come out of it in 3 days, all racks loaded to capacity in a single layer.


you share a lot of info. good stuff. i am gonna try your dryer.


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## Al B. Fuct (May 7, 2008)

Thanks for that. 

I really gotta get off my dead ass and post construction pix of BudDryer v2.0. There's several new features in 2.0, including thermostatic control of the heating module, speed control for the fan motors and filtration of the intake air. I was really surprised how much dust the air filters catch, which previously had likely been getting stuck to the buds' resin. 

However, none of the fancy-schmancy stuff is really needed to make a bud dryer. It CAN be as simple as a plastic box with a single fan drawing air out of it, with no heating element. It will work, just nowhere near as fast as with one, probably 6-8 days instead of 3. The air motion alone will help stop mould. 

However, warming the inbound air only a few degrees C reduces the relative humidity of the intake air quite a lot. The lower the RH of the intake air, the more moisture the air can pick up on the way through the box. As long as the air warmer is limited thermostatically to 29C, it will have no effect on THC, which begins to break down into non-psychoactive cannabinoids above that temp. 

Worth restating at this point in the thread that use of the dryer takes a bit of practise and observation to avoid overdrying. Check it about every 12 hours when first trying out your new dryer. 

However, even if you do overdry, it's too easy to put some water back in the buds. Dampen a paper towel with about 1-2 teaspoons of water and nest it in with the buds which have been put in a sealed plastic container. Buds will again be springy and pliable in a few hours. Once the moisture content is where you like it, remove the paper towel. 

For smoking, I like my buds on the slightly moister side to slow the burning and smooth out the smoke. For longer term storage, I prefer that they are on the dryer end of the spectrum. However, storage is for some odd reason not a real problem around here.


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## Al B. Fuct (May 7, 2008)

weedyoo said:


> i just made mine with a box and string across the top then a fan in and out and i suck the heat off my monter


Pretty ghetto, but it'd probably work fine. Put a peak memory thermometer in your box to make sure the air temp is not exceeding 29C.


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## DrGreenFinger (May 7, 2008)

i am going to try one of your dryer designs. it looks promising. i was looking at the thread where you were discussing the theory of the dryer and its effectiveness. you make plenty of sense and it is definitely worth a shot in my opinion.


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## LoudBlunts (May 7, 2008)

when can we expect pics of the v2.0


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## Al B. Fuct (May 7, 2008)

DrGreenFinger said:


> i am going to try one of your dryer designs. it looks promising. i was looking at the thread where you were discussing the theory of the dryer and its effectiveness. you make plenty of sense and it is definitely worth a shot in my opinion.


Thanks for that. 

The dryer functions similarly to hang drying on a warm day in a drafty room. It's not so fast that chlorophyll has no chance to break down, or else my buds would be bright green instead of a rather khaki colour when they come out of the dryer. It literally is 3 days from growing plants to rolling joints, no further stuffing around with curing or jars etc. needed. 



LoudBlunts said:


> when can we expect pics of the v2.0


I'm booked up for a few days with harvesting. The dryer is presently being loaded up, so it's busy at the moment. I need to partially disassemble it to get the pics that I want, so it'll be a few days.


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## DaSprout (May 7, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> I'm booked up for a few days with harvesting. The dryer is presently being loaded up, so it's busy at the moment. I need to partially disassemble it to get the pics that I want, so it'll be a few days.


Let me see. The dryer. With the buds. With the buds. Now...


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## LoudBlunts (May 7, 2008)

that would make a nice picture!!!

bud dryer porn!


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## Al B. Fuct (May 8, 2008)

ooookay


BDv2.0. Note UV ozone generator's outlet in the dryer's exhaust air stream.


Heating element detail. That's not 2 fans in series- the fan body next to the heat sink has had its (blown) motor cut out. The fan body is used to space the fan blades away from the heat sink fins- makes a hell of a whzzzzzzzzzzzzzing sound if the blades pass within a couple mm of the heatsink fins. Nylon stocking material used as intake air filter. 


heatsink is warmed by 6x 25W power resistors in parallel, temp controlled with a 500W incandescent light dimmer. 


overhead view of heating element


side view showing thermostat and 2nd thermometer (for verifying the temp reading on the thermostat). Knob below tstat is the dimmer for setting voltage applied to resistors.


bud porn, still loading...


intake fan. Note temp sensors, white one is for the backup thermometer, the tiny blue one on the bottom is the thermistor from the thermosat unit, which has been removed from the tstat and remote mounted in the warm airstream.


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## DaSprout (May 8, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> ooookay
> 
> 
> 
> bud porn, still loading...


Load the rest. Into my bowl. So that I. May smoke it.


Tee Hee.


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## LoudBlunts (May 8, 2008)

preciate it very much al!


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## Stormfront (May 9, 2008)

Hey I've been reading all of these great posts on bud dryers...however i have a question about the heat...is it really necessary? I mean theoretically if you have no humidity(not a lot) could you keep it in a cooler environment and still have good clean dry bud? and exactly what is too much humidity? i plan on drying in a box setup that will maintain about 65F with around 30% humidity very similar to your setup, though im using 2 small 400cfm intake fans and one 8000cfm exhaust, im hoping for the best without the heat element....I cant imagine it would be any slower if the temps were down, i would have thought the added heat would cause evaporations of the water in the bud and raise humidity....so cooler air would possibly dry it faster....

just my 2cents, but if you have any input i'd appreciate reading it, since it's obvious you know what you're doing and i just like experimenting. good job on the design though it looks super hightech, and efficient.


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## Al B. Fuct (May 9, 2008)

Stormfront said:


> Hey I've been reading all of these great posts on bud dryers...however i have a question about the heat...is it really necessary?


No, not totally necessary. However, the dryer will work *MUCH* faster with a temp controlled warm air source than without. 



> I mean theoretically if you have no humidity(not a lot) could you keep it in a cooler environment and still have good clean dry bud? and exactly what is too much humidity?


The amount of water that air is carrying out of the percentage it COULD carry at any given temperature is called relative humidity (but you knew that from your research, didn't you? ). 

If air is at 100%RH at a given temp, it can pick up no more water (which is why we say it is at 100%, maximum capacity). If you want 100%RH air to be able to pick up water from your buds, you need to drop the RH. The easiest way to reduce the RH is to raise the temp. Graph courtesy of Wikipedia:







Air at even 80%RH is _*much*_ more able to pick up water out of your buds than air at 100%. It only takes a rise of a couple degrees C in humid, room temp air (100%RH @ 24-25C) to drop the RH dramatically. The lower the RH and the higher the temperature of the air running through the dryer, the faster it will work. Of course, we must limit temp to 29C to prevent breakdown of THC into non-psychoactive cannabinoids.



> i plan on drying in a box setup that will maintain about 65F with around 30% humidity very similar to your setup,


If your dryer's intake air was _*always*_ @ 30%RH, a heaterless dryer would work rather quickly, every day of the year. If your dryer is in a place where there is climate control (heating & cooling), it could get by without a heater, no worries. However, drying times increase as temperature drops. It might take a week at 0C/30%, but it'd still work. 

I'm not so lucky. Not even the living spaces in my house have any permanent heating systems- just don't need it at the subtropical latitude where I am. However, the place where my op is located usually has higher RH than outside air. A heater for my dryer was necessary in my case, where RH is commonly >80-90%. 



> though im using 2 small 400cfm intake fans and one 8000cfm exhaust,


Check those figures. Something's wrong. My main exhaust blower for my grow op (250W, 250mm dia centrifugal) shifts 600CFM. 8000CFM would be a wind tunnel!



> im hoping for the best without the heat element....I cant imagine it would be any slower if the temps were down, i would have thought the added heat would cause evaporations of the water in the bud and raise humidity....so cooler air would possibly dry it faster....


No, cooler air will not dry faster than warmer air. If it would, clothes dryers would not have heating elements- they'd more closely resemble air conditioners. The reason RH does not build up within the dryer is because the fans are busy shifting moist air out of the thing. Obviously, the dryer would need access to a large free airmass to work properly. You could not shut it in an unventilated closet and expect it to work well. 

In a hypothetical case, if you had your choice between drawing air in at 24C @ 50% as opposed to say 16C, also @ 50%, the air at 24C would dry buds mucho faster. Air at 24C can hold much, much more water than at 16C (see graph). Energy applied to water molecules causes them to vibrate faster and separate from other water molecules more easily. 

The more energy you apply, the faster the rate of evaporation. This energy can be in the form of heat in the air or motion of air. Fast moving air at 100%RH will still knock some water molecules off of anything damp, but much more slowly than air that has been only very slightly warmed. It really takes very little heat energy to drop the RH of a given sample of air at common room temps. 

A few people have built heaterless copies of my dryer. They work, albeit much slower than those with controlled temp heater units. Commonly, folks report that a heaterless bud dryer will take about 6-8 days (dependent upon ambient RH) to finish drying freshly trimmed buds.


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## ronin101 (May 10, 2008)

hey al, would it be possible to use a heat sync pulled from an old computer - just to warm the air up - and place it in front of the air-intake fan? Or do you think airflow would be a problem? thx!


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## Al B. Fuct (May 10, 2008)

ronin101 said:


> hey al, would it be possible to use a heat sync pulled from an old computer - just to warm the air up - and place it in front of the air-intake fan? Or do you think airflow would be a problem? thx!


Hard to say without seeing what you propose. 

What do you plan to use to warm up your heat sink? How big is the heat sink? 

The heat sink on mine is a big chunk of aluminum- about 100x150x75mm. When I think of heat sinks from computer type switching power supplies, I think of a tiny thang, the size of a Bic lighter or less, suiting one or two power transistors. Something this size won't be very useful for the amount of heat you need to apply to the airstream, even with modest computer fans driving the thing, to get the air temp up to 29C.


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## ronin101 (May 11, 2008)

well I was thinking of the bigger Apple heat syncs. I would say they're about 7" x 4" x 2" something like that, but its just a big rectangular piece of metal. how do make sure the heat gets into the box efficiently?


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## Al B. Fuct (May 11, 2008)

ronin101 said:


> well I was thinking of the bigger Apple heat syncs. I would say they're about 7" x 4" x 2" something like that, but its just a big rectangular piece of metal. how do make sure the heat gets into the box efficiently?


FYI, there's no such thing as a 'heat *sync*.'

A 'heat *sink*' is any object which can be used to *sink*, or dissipate, thermal energy into. Could be a chunk of aluminium, could be a tank of water- or even a mass of air.

This is how I did it. 








What are you going to use to warm your heat sink?


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## Mr. Marge (May 12, 2008)

Starting from scratch, what list of materials would I need?

How much would it cost to have one made unassembled, by you. Sent to me for assembly? (which of course isn't possible i'm sure) 

I'm in day 26 of flowering so I'm ready to get started on this project. Thanks for all your help


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## Al B. Fuct (May 12, 2008)

Mr. Marge said:


> Starting from scratch, what list of materials would I need?


Hmm. 

Keep in mind that there's a lot of wiggle room to improvise, but this is the basic kit:

* storage tub w/ lid (lid must seal tightly - or strips of foam rubber can be used to make seals for the lid edge)
* 80mm - 120mm fans x2
* 1/2" grid hardware cloth & open link chain for bud racks - or freestanding plastic racks which fit in the tub
* (240V version) 1.8k ohm, 25W power resistors, x6
* (120V version) 470 ohm, 25W power resistors, x6
* 300W (or better) incandescent light dimmer
* thermostat
* finned aluminum heat sink (this one's good - suits 80mm fans )



> How much would it cost to have one made unassembled, by you. Sent to me for assembly? (which of course isn't possible i'm sure)


Unless you live in Australia, I don't think this would be practical. I reckon it'd cost about $AUD75-100 to ship a completed (if unassembled) dryer to Nth America or the UK. 

I have seen bud dryers at some online hydro shops that are not dissimilar to mine, except these don't usually include a heater unit. They are priced *INSANELY*- $350- $1800! Totally wacky for a plastic box with a fan... If you were thinking of paying that much for a bud dryer, then it becomes practical for me to make you one... but I would be amazed if a gibbon with a few common tools could not make one in a couple of hours.


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## ronin101 (May 12, 2008)

I was going to do as you said earlier and clamp on a soldering iron and pretty much follow the plan you laid out earlier. hey i'm sorry if i'm going off topic here, but i was wondering if you had an opinion on the 'hempy bucket' method of growing while growing in a stadium? thx!


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## Al B. Fuct (May 13, 2008)

ronin101 said:


> I was going to do as you said earlier and clamp on a soldering iron and pretty much follow the plan you laid out earlier. hey i'm sorry if i'm going off topic here, but i was wondering if you had an opinion on the 'hempy bucket' method of growing while growing in a stadium? thx!


Stadiums are interesting. No opinion on hempy buckets.


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## ronin101 (May 13, 2008)

yeah, i just got my ww and nycdiesel seeds and i was planning on doing a stadium sog using hempy buckets. using soil for the moms and putting the cuttings in a perlite/vermiculite mix. this will be my first real grow where i am the one calling the shots so i am really excited to do this. i'll try to start a journal and post my progress. thx for all the great info...not just on this thread but many of your other ones too!


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## Al B. Fuct (May 13, 2008)

thanks for all that, but is there any reason why you're telling me this in a bud dryer thread?


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## ronin101 (May 13, 2008)

sorry...i got caught up in reading your other threads and this was the one that i ended up posting in and got caught up with all the info swirling in my head. been smoking all night and the gears are turnin...AND the bud dryer is really a GREAT tool so i've been kinda obsessing about the design for a while...one thing leads to another and then i'm typing a bunch of stuff in your thread!


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## pakalolo808 (May 14, 2008)

could i put one of these https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/63004-my-3-carbon-filter.html over the fan? would it eliminate the odor? would it hinder airflow too much?


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## Al B. Fuct (May 14, 2008)

ronin101 said:


> one thing leads to another and then i'm typing a bunch of stuff in your thread!


This is one of the few places in this world where you can blame the drugs and have it understood as _*perfectly*_ normal. 



pakalolo808 said:


> could i put one of these https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/63004-my-3-carbon-filter.html over the fan? would it eliminate the odor?


Looks like it would work pretty well. 



> would it hinder airflow too much?


Axial fans are not very good at pushing air through high static loads as caused by obstructions. You don't need much airflow through the bud dryer for it to work, but neither do you need to pop any fan motors, which can occur if the output of an axial is fully blocked. 

I usually suggest centrif blowers for carbon filters, but that's over the top for a bud dryer. I think you might be better off with a very large cylindrical filter with thinner walls that would present a low flow resistance. Hard to make with granules and cloth, I know. You can buy activated carbon in sheets which might be a better form of the material for this application.


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## pakalolo808 (May 14, 2008)

would this be sufficient to cover odor? CAP OZN-JR Ozone Generator up to 1000 cubic ft. - Plantlighting Hydroponics


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## Al B. Fuct (May 15, 2008)

pakalolo808 said:


> would this be sufficient to cover odor? CAP OZN-JR Ozone Generator up to 1000 cubic ft. - Plantlighting Hydroponics


That looks great! Terrific price, too. Well spotted.


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## SomeGuy (May 19, 2008)

Hey Al! I finally used my dryer on a couple plants worth. Works great for me without the element. I used it to dry for about 3.5 days and have been curing in jars since. its only about 10 days since harvest and the buds already start to smell dank. This was just a good stealth option for me. I added flat carbon filter over the intake fan to keep out dust as well.  no dust on my buds


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## Al B. Fuct (May 19, 2008)

SG, good deal! 

You might swap the carbon filter on the intake for a piece of nylon stocking. Will trap dust as effectively as the carbon filter but will flow more air. Use the carbon on the outlet.


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## SomeGuy (May 19, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> SG, good deal!
> 
> You might swap the carbon filter on the intake for a piece of nylon stocking. Will trap dust as effectively as the carbon filter but will flow more air. Use the carbon on the outlet.


the carbon filter stuff is actually on both intake and exhaust.. it was the only filter material I left on-hand..LOL.. Looks like a little more will be going into my dryer in the next couple of days  Ill try to remember to take pics of the dryer being loaded.


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## Al B. Fuct (May 19, 2008)

Sounds good!


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## david6767 (May 22, 2008)

Hi, nice piece of kit - just a couple of quesstions.

Firstly, would like to point out that I'm not too knowledgable about electronics - so bear with me!

Is it a 240v system, fans , heatsink etc? Or are they 12v through a transformer?

If so what sort of transformer do I need?

coud you also go into a bit more detail on how you wired it up, especially the heat sensor and resistors?

thanks for any help you an offer.


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## david6767 (May 22, 2008)

could you also explain how the heatsink works please - sorry if this is painfully obvious to others - do you wire it up? where does it draw the heat from?


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## Al B. Fuct (May 22, 2008)

david6767 said:


> Hi, nice piece of kit - just a couple of quesstions.
> 
> Firstly, would like to point out that I'm not too knowledgable about electronics - so bear with me!


This may not be the project for you if that's the case. 

There's soldering throughout this project and also disassembly of the thermostat module required to relocate the thermistor from the ckt board of the thermostat for remote mounting in the airstream. The thermistor _*must*_ be removed from the thermostat and relocated for this to work correctly. 



> Is it a 240v system, fans , heatsink etc?


Yep. Resistors don't care what voltage you apply (up to their flashover rating which is probably at least 600V). A transformer is not needed.



> coud you also go into a bit more detail on how you wired it up, especially the heat sensor and resistors?


This is the schematic for BudDryer v2.0:



The thermistor (temp sensor) from the thermostat has been desoldered from the thermostat's ckt board and remotely mounted inside the dryer using some thin gauge wire, in the warm air stream. 






Note tiny little blue thermistor near bottom of the fan outlet. Hotmelt glue is used to keep the thermistor in place. 

Any questions? (ducking)


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## david6767 (May 23, 2008)

thanks for the added input, much appreciated


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## Doalude (May 24, 2008)

Hey Al, I found on ebay the Excaliber Brand of Dehydrator that has a thermostat that goes down to 85 degrees has a side mount fan and 4 trays for $109 u.s. Would this do the trick? Check it out and tell me what you think.

EXCALIBUR 4 Tray Food Meat Fruit DEHYDRATOR Model 2400 - eBay (item 320254227153 end time May-29-08 15:47:54 PDT)


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## Al B. Fuct (May 24, 2008)

hah, 'doalude'! You're giving away your age. You probably know the significance of the number 714, don't you? 

Yep, if that commercial dehydrator will go down to 85F, it'll work pretty well. Just VERIFY with a thermometer that that's what it's doing. 

I haven't had any time off from the op (or the cannabis boards) for a while, so I'm going to get lost for a while. 



If you can read this, you know where I'm going. 

I'll be back in a few weeks.

bula bula!


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## SomeGuy (Jun 11, 2008)

Hey Al. Been a bit busy but here are the pics of my dryer. No heating element, just ambient air. Intake & Exhaust have the carbon impregnated filter material over them. Pretty simple and works great. I should mention that I just dry till the bud is crunchy on the outside and a small stem snaps but the bigger ones are bendy. Then I cure in jars. Enjoy


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## DrGreenFinger (Jun 11, 2008)

SomeGuy said:


> Hey Al. Been a bit busy but here are the pics of my dryer. No heating element, just ambient air. Intake & Exhaust have the carbon impregnated filter material over them. Pretty simple and works great. I should mention that I just dry till the bud is crunchy on the outside and a small stem snaps but the bigger ones are bendy. Then I cure in jars. Enjoy
> 
> quote]
> 
> whats your capacity?


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## SomeGuy (Jun 11, 2008)

DrGreenFinger said:


> whats your capacity?


About two whole plants that would be about 3.5' hight and bushy. So maybe what would turn out to be dry is 3 to 4 ounces, but weight varies with variety so really two plants. Im using a medium size tote. Im sure a bigger one could hold LOTS more. 

OH.. and smell isnt much of an issue using the carbon filter stuff.


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 13, 2008)

SomeGuy said:


> Hey Al. Been a bit busy but here are the pics of my dryer. No heating element, just ambient air. Intake & Exhaust have the carbon impregnated filter material over them. Pretty simple and works great. I should mention that I just dry till the bud is crunchy on the outside and a small stem snaps but the bigger ones are bendy. Then I cure in jars. Enjoy


Well done. 

Yep, I'm just back from holidays myself. Wouldn't believe how hard it was to get my computer... AND my op... back out of bongjockey's able hands. 

Yep, my earliest incarnation of the bud dryer didn't have a heater either. Several ppl have built them without one. They do work without a heater but take longer to get the job done.

Crunchy on the outside and bendy stems is exactly how I gauge the moisture content as well. Once to that point, they go in a tupperware type box for a day or so until the moisture content equalises. Takes about half a day for that. 

If you do overdry your buds, it's a simple matter to rehydrate them. Put the buds in a plastic tub with a dampened paper towel for a few hours. Fixed.


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## SomeGuy (Jun 13, 2008)

YUP! I love it this way as it is super stealth. I can sit the tub on my storage shelf and nobody even looks at it..LOL I am building some cabinets currently to get out my closet. I think the confined space will be good for limiting me..LOL


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 13, 2008)

I bet you drool when you see a warehouse for rent, don't ya?


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## LoudBlunts (Jun 13, 2008)

Welcome Back Al!!!!


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 13, 2008)

heh, thanks LB. 

bula bula!


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## LoudBlunts (Jun 13, 2008)

why is your thread closed?


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## Al B. Fuct (Jun 13, 2008)

It had run its course. It was all about a 2-week rotation SoG grow- I covered that any number of times- and the thread turned into 'Ask Al B.' It got so long that people were not fully reading it anymore and I'd get the same questions over and over. 

I might start a new thread one of these days, but I was putting too much of my day into it. We'll see.


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## LoudBlunts (Aug 20, 2008)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Hmm.
> 
> Keep in mind that there's a lot of wiggle room to improvise, but this is the basic kit:
> 
> ...


a few questions, al....

how big does the heat sink have to be?

what is the use for the light dimmer if the thermostat is capable of upping and downing of the temps? or do you wire both so you can control it through the thermostat? if not, is there a way to rig it so you can control it via the thermostat?

isnt there different wiring for the fan and the heating and cooling elements on the thermostat? im guessing if im using a fan with a filter on the end i would wire that up on the 'fan' option on the thermostat and have the button switched to 'on' not auto or off, correct?


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## Al B. Fuct (Aug 20, 2008)

LoudBlunts said:


> a few questions, al....
> 
> how big does the heat sink have to be?


oh crap, you would ask that.  I built my dryer with a heatsink that was on hand, not one that I selected for any particular performance characters. 

So, let's go back to 1st principles and do some hypothesising. If the heat sink's too large, the resistors won't be able to put enough heat into the sink and air coming off it won't come up to 29C even when the resistors are at max power dissipation. If it's too small, the resistors will overheat because not enough heat is being taken off the heatsink into the airflow. 







The sink I used is very similar in size and shape to this Jaycar unit (pictured above), which is 150mm x 75mm x 46mm. 



> what is the use for the light dimmer if the thermostat is capable of upping and downing of the temps? or do you wire both so you can control it through the thermostat? if not, is there a way to rig it so you can control it via the thermostat?


I've put in the dimmer to smooth out the temp stability. _*IF*_ I had calculated the ideal sized heat sink, the dimmer would not be needed. However, in my working example, the resistor bodies warm up very fast and will overshoot their max operating temp rating (80C on the R bodies) before the airstream comes to 29C. Dialing them back a bit with a dimmer slows down the rate at which they warm up, keeping the resistor bodies below 80C. 

I've calculated the R values to allow rated dissipation in the resistors (25W) at about 90% of line voltage because even when the dimmer is wide open, the dimmer only delivers about 90% of the line voltage. If I didn't calculate the R values for 90% of line voltage, they could not get enough voltage to come to their rated 25W dissipation. 

You could build this without the dimmer but the R values would change. For 240V, each resistor should be 2.3k ohms. For 120V, each should be 576 ohms. 



> isnt there different wiring for the fan and the heating and cooling elements on the thermostat? im guessing if im using a fan with a filter on the end i would wire that up on the 'fan' option on the thermostat and have the button switched to 'on' not auto or off, correct?


I'm not sure I understand your question. The fans are wired to run at all times that the unit is plugged in. Only the resistors are switched on and off by the thermostat. 

Keep in mind that the thermostat you use must either have a remote mountable thermistor (temperature sensor) or you have to modify the thermostat by removing the thermistor and extending its leads so you can mount the thermistor in the warm air stream while being able to mount the thermostat unit itself on the outside of the dryer unit.


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## Al B. Fuct (Aug 20, 2008)

Rats, the heat sink I pictured in the above post would not be the best choice. The fins run in the wrong direction. If you put a muffin fan in the middle of the pictured unit, the fins on the ends of the unit will be 'lazy' and won't warm air that is being drawn through the fan. The heatsink I used has fins running on the long axis, so air being pulled through all fins is being heated. 







This Jaycar sink (actually 2 of them pictured) would work better. The fan goes on the end of the two stacked sinks. The resistors could be mounted 3 per sink.


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## LoudBlunts (Aug 20, 2008)

im not understanding where i would put the fan on that heatsink....


nor am i able to find a heatsink like that in the US..... you know im trouble al, but forgive me....could you possibly help me find a heatsink from a US retailer? also the smallest heatsink possible!


and if i understand you correctly....since you are calculating the heatsink i can do without the dimmers? and as long as they are 576 ohms @ 120v correct?

as far the fan question and the thermostat....i know you are supposed to have the fans running the whole time the bud box is drying or plugged in. i just wanted to use the on and off features for the thermostat?

and also you say that the only thing switched on and off by the thermostat is the resistors (excuse me, you'll have to hold my hand as im not looking at one right now)

how does it hook up? is that just on a basic thermostat, b/c i thought thermostat would have contact hookups for the options of 'fan-auto/on/off' -- the heating & the cooling contact hookups right?

if you are still following me, that is where my last question came in at.... like if i wanted to hook all the fans to the thermostat and when i press off all the fans turn off? or it doesnt work like that?


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## flipsidesw (Aug 20, 2008)

Just wanna say thanks for answering my question!!


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## DWR (Aug 20, 2008)

My weed was cured in 10 days... excellent smoke.. and got good ratings back from my tokers 

Love it ... thnx man I think i might build one... just for that quick dry smoke sort of day


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## NeoAnarchist (Aug 20, 2008)

hey Al, good thread i read the whole thing, and ive been wondering about how to make one of these things, got my RM tub and im probably gonna have to use some p/c fans, or atleast one, i was thinkin of some ideas on how to get some heat in there, but i think im jsut gonna stick without a heat source. but i have some questions  1. will an exhaust fan work to suck the air out, or do u think it would suck the air out too fast? and 2. do the temps in the room have to be below 84f, cuz i try to keep my whole house around 72ish degrees and the RH is around 40ish % depending on where i am in the house. but my closet stays about 82f so im thinkin of puttin the box in there, but im also usin the closet for my OP so the light would be the only problem, but the tub is dark and u cant really see light in it.Your opinion?thnx man.


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## Al B. Fuct (Aug 20, 2008)

LoudBlunts said:


> im not understanding where i would put the fan on that heatsink....


On the end, where you see the fins. 








See the holes for fan mounting screws in each corner? Fan mounts on the end and blows air through this pair of heatsinks.



> nor am i able to find a heatsink like that in the US..... you know im trouble al, but forgive me....could you possibly help me find a heatsink from a US retailer? also the smallest heatsink possible!


Seeing as how I'm not in the US, it's hard for me to point you. Hit the electronics shops. I'm quite sure you'll find something suitable in the US if you just get out & look.

It's also difficult for me to tell you exactly what size to use. If you can find something about 150mm long x 75mm wide x 45mm thick with fins running on the long axis, you'd be pretty close. 



> and if i understand you correctly....since you are calculating the heatsink i can do without the dimmers? and as long as they are 576 ohms @ 120v correct?


I didn't calculate the heatsink size. I recalculated the R values. I'm a BSEE but I must have slept through the unit on calculating the thermal dissipation of a heatsink! 

Ohm's law sez that 120V through 576 ohms is 25 watts, the power rating of the resistors 


> as far the fan question and the thermostat....i know you are supposed to have the fans running the whole time the bud box is drying or plugged in. i just wanted to use the on and off features for the thermostat?
> and also you say that the only thing switched on and off by the thermostat is the resistors (excuse me, you'll have to hold my hand as im not looking at one right now)
> 
> how does it hook up? is that just on a basic thermostat, b/c i thought thermostat would have contact hookups for the options of 'fan-auto/on/off' -- the heating & the cooling contact hookups right?


Not having a copy of the thermostat you are thinking of in front of me, I can't comment. 

It sounds like you are thinking of a standard HVAC thermostat, which may not be rated to switch line voltage. HVAC systems usually use a low voltage like 24-36V as a control voltage, which is then used to switch the coil on a relay in the central heating/cooling system. That relay is used to switch the HVAC system on & off. 

The tstat I'm suggesting has a relay which has NO and NC contacts, which we're using to switch (only) the resistors on & off. It doesn't have any 'fan-auto/on/off' switch. With the Jaycar Qt7200, if you want to switch the fans, you'll have to add a separate switch in the power lead to the fans. 

However, a switch in the supply line to kill power to ONLY the fans is not a good idea, though. It would be possible to have current running through the resistors with the fans shut off. With no airflow, the resistors would overheat. In this design, it's necessary to have the fans running at all times that the unit is plugged in. 



> if you are still following me, that is where my last question came in at.... like if i wanted to hook all the fans to the thermostat and when i press off all the fans turn off? or it doesnt work like that?


It doesn't work like that. If you want to have a switch to shut off the fans to avoid unplugging the unit when you want to shut it off, it should be a DPST type, with one set of contacts used to kill power to the fans and the other connected to _simultaneously_ shut off power to the resistors, turning the entire device off.

This is the schematic for BudDryer v2.0. It has a motor speed controller in the leg feeding the fans. Even this is not a terribly good idea because it would be possible to dial down the fan speed enough to stop them. 



This design relies on airflow over the thermistor to control the temp of the resistors. It cannot be organised to switch the fans off when the resistors are switched off. If it shut off the fans at the same time the thermostat shuts off the resistors, it would not come back on again.


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## LoudBlunts (Aug 20, 2008)

wow...thanks for the schooling! im getting it! slowly but surely!


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## flow (Sep 7, 2008)

Hey Al thanks for all the info, i was getting ready to order all the stuff for my dryer, and wanted to see what you thought of my plan. 

For the intake i was thinking of using this:

FAN & HEATSINK ASSEMBLY FOR INTEL P4 | AllElectronics.com

And the outake will be another 80mm fan.

For the resistors, i was gonna use:

All Electronics | Electronic and Electro-Mechanical Parts and Supplies at Discount Prices

and im thinking 4-6 of the 600 ohm 25 watt ones, we'll see how they fit onto the heat sink.

For the dimmer, I take it I can just use any generic light dimmer that I find at a hardware store right? As long as its above 600 watts?

For the msc, what do you use and is it really necessary? 

For the thermostat is there anything in particular I need to look for in one im buying? 
Would one like this do?

Robertshaw 9600 Programmable Thermostat

Im new to electronics and want to start learning and this seems like a good project to start. 
I dont have any equipment so i assume ill need a soldering iron and some other misc supplies, any advice on what to pick up woud be greatly appreciated?


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## cannabitch (Sep 7, 2008)

Hey thanks for the great info!! +rep


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## BUBZ BUDZ (Sep 8, 2008)

sweet idea,looks and sounds productive.nice


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 8, 2008)

flow said:


> Hey Al thanks for all the info, i was getting ready to order all the stuff for my dryer, and wanted to see what you thought of my plan.
> 
> For the intake i was thinking of using this:
> 
> FAN & HEATSINK ASSEMBLY FOR INTEL P4 | AllElectronics.com


Way too small. 







Think more this size. 



> And the outake will be another 80mm fan.


should be ok 
 



> For the resistors, i was gonna use:
> 
> All Electronics | Electronic and Electro-Mechanical Parts and Supplies at Discount Prices
> 
> and im thinking 4-6 of the 600 ohm 25 watt ones, we'll see how they fit onto the heat sink.


I don't think that sort will work well. 







You need aluminum body resistors with mounting tabs to suit mounting on the flat surface of the heat sink.
 



> For the dimmer, I take it I can just use any generic light dimmer that I find at a hardware store right? As long as its above 600 watts?


Yep, any generic incandescent dimmer. However, 6x 25W = 150W. 




> For the msc, what do you use and is it really necessary?


I used a continuously variable fan motor speed controller, like this one, 

 

in this case fitted to an extension lead for another purpose. This is an HPM brand MSC, common in Australia. You're sure to find some other branded MSC in your locality. 



> For the thermostat is there anything in particular I need to look for in one im buying?


Yes, it needs to have contacts suited for switching a load at line voltage. 


> Would one like this do?
> 
> Robertshaw 9600 Programmable Thermostat


The specs for that tstat say: 



> Fully compatible with all standard 24VAC heating/cooling systems.


This tells me that the switch contacts in this tstat are only rated for a low current 24V control voltage. This would not be suited for switching 120 or 240VAC. 

I used one of these:
 

This tstat will switch 5A @ 240VAC. It also has both NO & NC contacts so it can be used either to switch a heating appliance or a cooling fan, making it immensely useful in the grow. I have at least 6 of them doing various tasks in my op. They are $AUD40/ea and cost about $10 to ship to Nth America (so said a person in Canada who recently ordered one). It costs about the same to ship 3 of them as one, so you might buy more than one. They run on 2x AAA batts (lasts months) and can be modified for remote mounting of the thermistor. 



> i assume ill need a soldering iron and some other misc supplies, any advice on what to pick up woud be greatly appreciated?


yep, you'll need a 25W iron, some rosin core solder & some small dia (3mm?) heat-shrink tubing to insulate the connections you make.


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## flow (Sep 8, 2008)

Hey Al, 

I cant thank you enough for helping me out. The fact that you would take time out of your day to help out a total stranger is a testiment to your character. Hopefully my questions will help out other Americans looking for the parts for this, because it has not been as easy as I thought it would be.

So, I have a few more: 

I think I've found the necessary resistors:

Resistive and Dynamic Loads, Power Resistors and Rheostats 

they are the OMI HT-25 500 Ohm / 25W / 1% Resistors near the bottom of the page. I had to search through several different websites to find these, but im pretty sure they are what you said will work.

Im thinking that I'll need 6 of these? They're not cheap at $8 apeice but if its what I need to get it'll have to do. 

I've been looking around at some thermostats, and the cheapest one I've found that looks like it'll work is:

Honeywell T6031A1136 Remote Bulb Thermostat

Is that what I'm looking for?

Will something as simple as the one below work?

ACE SINGLE POLE LINE VOLTAGE THERMOSTAT 11042 LUX PRODUCTS CORPORATION

Im trying to go as cheap as possible, but I dont know how to tell which thermostats I will be able to move the sensor on. Is this difficult? Am I better off just getting a remote bulb, or trying to mess around with modifying one that doesnt have a remote bulb? 

Now, as for the msc, will this work?

Motor Speed Control Kit

And what does it do and is it really necessary? If I just pick properly sized fans will I need this?

Ok, on to the heatsink. I looked at the one you posted, and while it looks nice, I would really like to go cheaper than that. 
You said the one I posted is too small, so from this I gather that the resistors will overheat, or the air will not warm sufficiently?
It seems like the one I posted was the about same height and width as the one you posted do I need the extra length just to fit the resistors on, or to dissipate the heat from the resistors?

Im really having trouble finding a heatsink like the one you pictured in the US, what if I used 2 of the smaller ones I posted?

What about this one, still too small?

http://www.partspc.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProdID=12845

It seems that all the heatsinks I can find either dont have a fan, or are about the size of the ones I've posted.

One last question, the connection to AC mains in your diagram is just a normal powercord right? 

Again, thanks for all the help, it is VERY much appreciated.

-Flow


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## g350z (Sep 8, 2008)

props on this very good idea


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 9, 2008)

flow said:


> Hey Al,
> 
> I cant thank you enough for helping me out. The fact that you would take time out of your day to help out a total stranger is a testiment to your character. Hopefully my questions will help out other Americans looking for the parts for this, because it has not been as easy as I thought it would be.


WHAT!? You're AMERICAN? Oh, no, I cant help YOU. If you were ONLY Canadian or perhaps Cape Verdean...  


> I think I've found the necessary resistors:
> 
> Resistive and Dynamic Loads, Power Resistors and Rheostats
> 
> ...


No, not cheap at all. I think you ought to be able to do better on the price. I pay about $4 each for them. You'd save money ordering from RS in Australia! 

I've found 25W alum body resistors on Allied's site, about $2.40/ea, haven't found a 600 [FONT=&quot]&#937;[/FONT] unit yet. 



> I've been looking around at some thermostats, and the cheapest one I've found that looks like it'll work is:
> 
> Honeywell T6031A1136 Remote Bulb Thermostat
> 
> Is that what I'm looking for?


that'll do!



> Will something as simple as the one below work?
> 
> ACE SINGLE POLE LINE VOLTAGE THERMOSTAT 11042 LUX PRODUCTS CORPORATION


that'll do, too!



> Im trying to go as cheap as possible, but I dont know how to tell which thermostats I will be able to move the sensor on. Is this difficult? Am I better off just getting a remote bulb, or trying to mess around with modifying one that doesnt have a remote bulb?


Mechanical tstats which use a mercury bulb will work fine but you won't be able to extend the capillary tube to the bulb. The Honeywell unit you pictured already has a remote bulb, but it's $50-odd bux. 

Electronic tstats are dependent on thermistors, which usually can be liberated from the ckt board and remote mounted on a piece of 2 cond wire. 


> Now, as for the msc, will this work?
> 
> Motor Speed Control Kit
> 
> And what does it do and is it really necessary? If I just pick properly sized fans will I need this?


The speed controller you picture will probably work fine. It's not entirely necessary. It simply allows you to slow the fans down to make them quieter or to reduce airflow through the unit for cool ambient temp operation where the resistors on the heatsink are not making enough heat to get the air temp to 29C. For $6 and change, it's cheap to add the feature. 



> Ok, on to the heatsink. I looked at the one you posted, and while it looks nice, I would really like to go cheaper than that.
> You said the one I posted is too small, so from this I gather that the resistors will overheat, or the air will not warm sufficiently?
> It seems like the one I posted was the about same height and width as the one you posted do I need the extra length just to fit the resistors on, or to dissipate the heat from the resistors?


The one you pictured was a CPU sink for a Pentium4. Too small. The one I pictured was about 225mm long!


> Im really having trouble finding a heatsink like the one you pictured in the US, what if I used 2 of the smaller ones I posted?
> 
> What about this one, still too small?
> 
> ...


You are searching for a heatsink with a fan. Try searching for just a heatsink. You probably won't find a heatsink & fan as a unit, you have to marry them up later, I'm afraid. Computer CPU heatsinks are not going to work, simply too small. Find a heatsink about 200mm x 75mm x 50mm with fins running on the 200mm axis. 



> One last question, the connection to AC mains in your diagram is just a normal powercord right?


 yep!

Now, I've given you the basic parameters, done a little bit of shopping for you, but I'm afraid you'll have to do the rest of the shopping on your own. I'm sorry, but I'm buried in work at the moment and really am not very useful shopping for things on the other side of the planet!


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 9, 2008)

Here's some detail shots of BudDryer v2.0's heating unit. 


nylon stocking material acts as a dust filter on air intake. 



air intake from either end of heatsink, stocking material on both ends. 
Looks like 2 muffin fans stacked- it isn't. The fan next to the heatsink has been gutted of a blown motor and is only being used as a spacer. If there is no spacer, the fan blades passing so close to the heat sink fins makes for a whizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing noise. 


note blue thermistor near bottom of the fan, in the warm airstream. Thermistor has been removed from the tstat housing and extended on a 2 cond lead
 
6x 25W power resistors in parallel.


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## flow (Sep 9, 2008)

Thanks a lot Al, I think I've got all the info i need now!


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## John Doe Jr (Sep 14, 2008)

First off I'd like to say what an awesome dryer you have built. The idea of adding some heat to remove humidity is excellent. I have built a similar dryer, but with only air outake, via a inline duct fan connected to a somewhat large carbon filter, inside the rubbermaid container. Air was drawn through the top of the container by leaving a 2 inch gap by raising the lid on the container.
The problem was air temp dictated how long the buds would dry and humidity.
You are using muffin fans and I was wondering, if I redo my box, is the inline duct fan to much air outake if I use the smaller muffin fans as intake ?
I still plan on using the carbon filter, but on the outside of the box, so the in line fan would be blowing through the filter, which is made from ac and heating duct pipes, and blows out a window.
And do you leave space between buds, when placing them on the racks ? You mentioned somewhere that you have dried up to a pound in it, and my container is a 31 gallon container, with built in chicken wire racks, and a pound seems like a lot of bud on the racks. Would buds touching produce mold even with the heat and air flow ?


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 14, 2008)

John Doe Jr said:


> First off I'd like to say what an awesome dryer you have built. The idea of adding some heat to remove humidity is excellent.


thanks. 



> I have built a similar dryer, but with only air outake, via a inline duct fan connected to a somewhat large carbon filter, inside the rubbermaid container. Air was drawn through the top of the container by leaving a 2 inch gap by raising the lid on the container.


I'm sure that'll work to some degree, but I organised mine to have a cross-flow to assure moving air was flowing around all buds:



Note that the R value figs in this dwg are for a previous revision of he dryer.



> The problem was air temp dictated how long the buds would dry and humidity.


Yep, several other ppl have told me that they've built dryers with fans only and their experiences are similar to yours. It usually takes about 6-8 days with no added heat instead of 3 days.


> You are using muffin fans and I was wondering, if I redo my box, is the inline duct fan to much air outake if I use the smaller muffin fans as intake ?


Without knowing the CFM capacity of your fans, I can't say. However, if you have two unequal sized fans, it's better to have the smaller one on the intake. 

You don't really need a wind tunnel to dry buds but I'm getting good results with good quality 120mm axial muffin fans for line voltage (240V around here), which do shift a fair amount of air (~100CFM). 12V computer fans are a bit small but will work. 



> I still plan on using the carbon filter, but on the outside of the box, so the in line fan would be blowing through the filter, which is made from ac and heating duct pipes, and blows out a window.


If you're using a filter, and have dissimilar sized fans, it's that much more important to use the smaller one on the intake. This will keep the box at negative pressure, assuring all air leaving the box is going through your filter instead of via air leaks in the box. If you keep the box at negative pressure, if there's any leaks, they'll leak inward.



> And do you leave space between buds, when placing them on the racks ? You mentioned somewhere that you have dried up to a pound in it, and my container is a 31 gallon container, with built in chicken wire racks, and a pound seems like a lot of bud on the racks. Would buds touching produce mold even with the heat and air flow ?


If there's air motion, there won't be any mould. It's plenty to have the buds just laid out in a single layer, they can touch without any trouble.


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## HAZEOHOLIC (Sep 19, 2008)

Hello would like to know can one acheive this 3 day drying method and still have the nice aroma of different strains? Or any strain one grow will have no smell at the end of drying?
Thanks Al


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 19, 2008)

My bud dryer doesn't affect the smell of the buds. It is no different than hang drying, aside from the fact that it halts mould before it can get started. 

The scent of cannabis comes from the resin. If a drying method keeps temps below 29C, the THC will not be degraded and resin will not be disturbed.


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## OGkushOG (Sep 19, 2008)

This is great. It's actually invaluable for someone who's on a time restraint. 

If I do not live in an area where there is high humidity you think I could get away without the heating element? Would just an intake and outtake fan would dry them fine?


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 20, 2008)

OGkushOG said:


> Would just an intake and outtake fan would dry them fine?


Yes, but it just takes longer.


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## v1nc3 (Sep 22, 2008)

hi im intrested in making something like this up after seing your post great idea
sorry if ive missed it but what is it your actually using for the heater
how are u getting pc fans running on ac power plug is it thru the resistors or do i need to get something like a pc power brick

oops sorry page was getting stuck at page 9 posted this reply and everything is answered afterwards


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## v1nc3 (Sep 22, 2008)

could u plz help me out with links to what i need in uk when u have the time as im not to clued up on what i actually need would like it running with the heater 
thanks


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 22, 2008)

Well, start here:
 

Your parts list is:

FAN 1 & 2: 120mm, AC line voltage fan 
R1-6: 120V version - 576 ohm, 25W aluminum body resistor with mounting tabs
R1-6: 240V version - 2.3K ohm, 25W aluminum body resistor with mounting tabs
Jaycar QT7200 thermostat, modified to remote mount the thermistor
300W incandescent lamp dimmer
Fan motor speed controller 
AC mains line cord
Heat sink, approx 150mm x 75mm x 50mm thick, fins along 150mm axis


----------



## v1nc3 (Sep 22, 2008)

thanks m8 nice 1 
with these i can either go for 1 or the other?
R1-6: 120V version - 576 ohm, 25W aluminum body resistor with mounting tabs
R1-6: 240V version - 2.3K ohm, 25W aluminum body resistor with mounting tabs

been looking net all i can find is 25w 2.2k resistors from rs site but not sure about the volts are they any good are they 240v?

159-584 ManufacturerArcol Manufacturers Part No.HS25 2K2 J Catalogue page  2 - 3576

as for heat sink could i go with the 1 posted before with link to it * Fan Assisted-Type Heatsink - 225mm Long and go with 80 mm fans cant find heatsink u stated above
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/47327/Electrical/Switches-Sockets/Dimmers/Dimmer-1G-2W-40-250W
would this be ok for dimmer swith from rs site or this 1 from screwfix 
*RS Stock No.222-8008 ManufacturerMK Manufacturers Part No.K1521 WHILV Catalogue page 1 - 238
or if u know ov a cheaper uk option would be great as notice some dimmer switches dont work with wiremold resistors


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 22, 2008)

v1nc3 said:


> thanks m8 nice 1
> with these i can either go for 1 or the other?
> R1-6: 120V version - 576 ohm, 25W aluminum body resistor with mounting tabs
> R1-6: 240V version - 2.3K ohm, 25W aluminum body resistor with mounting tabs


yes, depending your local line voltage.


> been looking net all i can find is 25w 2.2k resistors from rs site but not sure about the volts are they any good are they 240v?


2.2k is close enough, probably rated for 600V.


> 159-584 ManufacturerArcol Manufacturers Part No.HS25 2K2 J Catalogue page 2 - 3576


If that's a 25W aluminum body resistor with mounting tabs, it'll do.



> as for heat sink could i go with the 1 posted before with link to it * Fan Assisted-Type Heatsink - 225mm Long and go with 80 mm fans cant find heatsink u stated above*


siorry, where's the link?


> http://www.screwfix.com/prods/47327/Electrical/Switches-Sockets/Dimmers/Dimmer-1G-2W-40-250W




that'll do


> or if u know ov a cheaper uk option would be great as notice some dimmer switches dont work with wiremold resistors


An incandescent lamp is a resistor. Wirewound resistors are still resistors.


----------



## v1nc3 (Sep 22, 2008)

heres link to the heatsink 1 posted on previous post
Jaycar Electronics

thanks


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 22, 2008)

Oh yeah, that one 







(that's actually 2 heatsinks in their pic) will do. Of course, with a pair of these, the fan (80mm for this one) goes on the end, the other end will protrude into the dryer box.


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## v1nc3 (Sep 22, 2008)

thanks again i have 1 more thing i need to get straight if u dont mind u say i need R1-6: 240V version - 2.3K or 1.8k ohm, 25W aluminum body resistor with mounting tabs as my line voltage is 240v i cant seem to find these resistors any where u say the 2.2k is close enough, probably rated for 600V will this do any harm being 600v i really need to make sure this will be all good before ordering these resistors nothing likely to go pop/bang if ive wired everything up as should be
sorry for the continuous questions


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## smartsoverambition (Sep 22, 2008)

this is one of the best things i have found on RIU
but does it bring out the colors like hangdrying does?
because i heard some strains get their blue and purple hairs during cure so would this be too fast?
also your mentioned that your old dryer was covered in resin did u scrape that off and smoke it? but that sounds like you lose THC when you take it out sorry for all the questions


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 22, 2008)

v1nc3 said:


> u say the 2.2k is close enough, probably rated for 600V will this do any harm being 600v


The 600V rating is the dielectric strength, or the maximum voltage the device will tolerate before breaking down; in this case, that'd be the isolation rating between the resistor element and the aluminium body. More is gooder in this case.  I'm not sure of the specific flashover rating for this device, but if you're getting the Arcor 25W alum body units, all will be well, that's what I'm using. 



smartsoverambition said:


> this is one of the best things i have found on RIU


thanks. 



> but does it bring out the colors like hangdrying does?


It does exactly what hang drying does, all except let buds go to mould. 



> because i heard some strains get their blue and purple hairs during cure so would this be too fast?


I've never, ever heard of a plant with blue or purple hairs. 



> also your mentioned that your old dryer was covered in resin did u scrape that off and smoke it? but that sounds like you lose THC when you take it out


A few of the resin trichomes do come off of buds when you handle them, no matter how you handle them. Some will always get away. Gentler handling keeps them attached to the buds of course, but this is simply unavoidable. If you hang dry, look on the floor! No more trichs come off the buds in the dryer than drying by any other means. 

The bud dryer at least catches them so you can easily collect & smoke them. There's no scraping involved, they appear as a blonde-ish powder in the bottom of the dryer box. 

In Lebanon, the historically preferred way of making hashish is thrashing buds over a fine screen so the resin trichs pass through, then are collected and pressed into very high quality hashish ('Lebanese blonde'). You can get kif presses from many head shops if you want to press your recovered resin trichs into a block or plug for smoking.


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## DoobyDoo (Sep 22, 2008)

v1nc3 said:


> thanks again i have 1 more thing i need to get straight if u dont mind u say i need R1-6: 240V version - 2.3K or 1.8k ohm, 25W aluminum body resistor with mounting tabs as my line voltage is 240v i cant seem to find these resistors any where u say the 2.2k is close enough, probably rated for 600V will this do any harm being 600v i really need to make sure this will be all good before ordering these resistors nothing likely to go pop/bang if ive wired everything up as should be
> sorry for the continuous questions


If I may:

Check out Digi-Key and Mouser for resistors, heat sinks, fans and wire. eBay is also a pretty good source for random things (like power resistors in small quantities). Ohmite is the company that I can think of off the top of my head that makes the resistors. There are others (Bourns, perhaps?) that make resistors in that package, if you look around a bit. 

Don't get hung up on the exact value, either. Get as close as you can and that will work just fine, you have a dimmer switch to control the temperature anyway. The 600V is a max rating.. unless you plan on building circuitry to up your 120V or 240V lines, don't worry about it. Make sure they are 25W and you'll be just fine.

Hope I'm not stepping on any toes here (I'm looking at you, Al ). Good luck!


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 22, 2008)

DoobyDoo said:


> Hope I'm not stepping on any toes here (I'm looking at you, Al ).


Hell, no! Thanks a bunch for chiming in! I'm sure that data will help anyone trying to cook up a heater like the one on my dryer.


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 22, 2008)

> also your mentioned that your old dryer was covered in resin did u scrape that off and smoke it?


When I was talking about the goo on the old one, I was talking about the lid:



That's just from the resin on my fingers from handling buds while manicuring sticking to the lid. 



I don't clean my hands just to open the dryer to load in more buds. I'm a pig, I tell ya.


----------



## Staropramen (Sep 26, 2008)

Hey could you have a quick peek at my thread please fuct.

I built a bud box for my first harvest!

https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/113847-drying-questions.html


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## NASTYRUDEDOGG (Sep 26, 2008)

That looks like some tweeker shit man. Besides if you dry and cure that fast your sure to end up with some harsh smoking buds.


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## GrowTech (Sep 26, 2008)

NASTYRUDEDOGG said:


> That looks like some tweeker shit man. Besides if you dry and cure that fast your sure to end up with some harsh smoking buds.



Current record holder for "Biggest load of bullshit produced in under 60 seconds" 

I have the exact same dryer build in my signature, have used it plenty, and it is just as efficient at properly drying as hanging would be... The taste, scent, and smoke are all made to be excellent from the curing process- not the drying process.


----------



## NASTYRUDEDOGG (Sep 26, 2008)

This is all some _tweeker_ shit man! Who came up with this tweeker fast way of drying your buds in three days. Talking about transistors and circut boards and wires and shit, you guys aren't just smoking herb are you? Come oooon, it's okay I won't tell. hahaha!


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 26, 2008)

NASTYRUDEDOGG said:


> Besides if you dry and cure that fast your sure to end up with some harsh smoking buds.


Nope, control temp to 29C and there's no difference at all between hang drying & my bud dryer. 

There's enough folks out there now using copies of my dryer that say it has no negative effect on smoking qualities to reliably disprove your assertion. 

And no, there was no tweek involved in my design or construction! 

Mind you, this is not to say that I don't like a bit from time to time (despite not having had any in about 3 years), but I like drugs in general! Fuck, that's half the reason I'm here!



NASTYRUDEDOGG said:


> Who came up with this tweeker fast way of drying your buds in three days.


I did. Next question?



> This is all some _tweeker_ shit man! Talking about transistors and circut boards and wires and shit,


This is _*STONER*_ _*SHIT *_man! Obviously, you read the thread with your mind all warped out on _*mary jew wanna*_! 

No transistors or circuit boards in the design, none mentioned in the entire thread! 

DRUGGIE!


----------



## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

Al, I've got to know. Have you ever been handling that stuff and accidentally rubbed your nose or touched your eye and gotten high? 

I'm into immediate gratification, being as ADD and distractable as I am. This is making me think, Hmmmm... yes? Hmmm.


----------



## Al B. Fuct (Sep 26, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> Al, I've got to know. Have you ever been handling that stuff and accidentally rubbed your nose or touched your eye and gotten high?


Don't know which stuff you're referring to, but I can't recall any accidental intoxications of any kind in this life. All my intoxications are QUITE deliberate! 

I'd call it a bonus, though.


----------



## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

Your resin-y dryer lids was what I was talking about, but you got the idea. I've saved those schematics from your initial post so I can show The Man. He's very handy and knows electronics, so I'm pretty sure that he'd be able to take a look at what you've got going and say, "Oh. Yeah, I see what he did, I can build that."


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 26, 2008)

Oh, OK. No, I don't think you can get a buzz off resin contact. Also, to be psychoactive, THC requires some heating just before (or while) using, which is why folks who want to use cannabis by oral ingestion make cannabutter instead of eating buds right off the plant.


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## NASTYRUDEDOGG (Sep 26, 2008)

tweekers


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

If I haven't said so before, I REALLY appreciate not just the information that you've shared, but the way you share it. You give solid answers and demonstrate how what you're talking about works. You don't just say, "It's this way!" and leave it at that. In answering questions the way you do, you actually answer a lot more than just the initial question, at least for me. 

So, thank you.


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 26, 2008)

Seamaiden said:


> If I haven't said so before, I REALLY appreciate not just the information that you've shared, but the way you share it. You give solid answers and demonstrate how what you're talking about works. You don't just say, "It's this way!" and leave it at that. In answering questions the way you do, you actually answer a lot more than just the initial question, at least for me.
> 
> So, thank you.


No, thank _*you*_. 

Makes no sense for me to issue edicts from an ivory tower, I'm just some unknown voice in the ether. If I don't justify my comments, they're just not useful.


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## Seamaiden (Sep 26, 2008)

Like I've said to a couple of others privately recently, I am the sort of person who addresses things directly. If I've got a problem with you, with something you've said or done, I address you directly and let you know exactly what I have a problem with. But! It is JUST as important to let people know when they've done or said something right (so they'll keep doing it). I really wish I'd started reading your threads earlier, because even if I don't grow hydroponically, I'm learning quite a lot. I love learning, it massages my brains.


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## Al B. Fuct (Sep 26, 2008)

Funny you should mention massaging the brain. The time I spend on here is actually my resting time, while I'm taking breaks from doing other stuff, usually work in the op. I don't always know the answer to a query off the top of my head and I have to research. I do learn quite a lot myself in that process.


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## DoobyDoo (Oct 25, 2008)

The FAQt is shut down and I don't know if you'll see this or not Al, but thanks for all the info. You have helped so many people, and so many more will still benefit from your generous sharing of knowledge. Thank you, and best of luck with the writing gig.


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## Seamaiden (Oct 25, 2008)

I haven't been following the FAQt. Why is it shut down? What writing gig?


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## DoobyDoo (Oct 25, 2008)

Al's got some writing work that actually pays him, and doesn't involve dealing with the unwashed masses that populate internet forums 

Anyhow, here's his farewell. Make sure you bookmark his threads


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## Seamaiden (Oct 26, 2008)

Well.. color me happy for him, but totally bummed for us. Wow, a paying gig writing.


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## smartsoverambition (Oct 27, 2008)

good 4 u al b. hopefully ur posts will stay open u've really helped us all out

peace?


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## KazzarGrower (May 6, 2009)

what kinda dog was mr ganja


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## Dirty Jerz (May 6, 2009)

Al, i was wondering if you could explain a bit more on how you assemble & wire the resistors, dimmer, and heat sink

Thanks

Edit: nevermind found the answer on page 20, thanks al, your amazing


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## Top 44 (Jun 29, 2009)

very cool, thanks Al


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## warisnottheanswer (Jul 23, 2009)

im waaaaaaay late but it got to me when i needed it! thank u AL!


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## tokinchef (Jul 23, 2009)

has anyone seen those staking cooling racks for baking... i got one at big lots a while back for 5 bucks...they would work perfectly in these thing....the legs on them stack up and can be stacked as high as u want them to go....they come 3 in a pack...


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## Al B. Fuct (Jul 25, 2009)

DoobyDoo said:


> The FAQt is shut down and I don't know if you'll see this or not Al, but thanks for all the info. You have helped so many people, and so many more will still benefit from your generous sharing of knowledge. Thank you, and best of luck with the writing gig.


 Thanks for the thanks, DD.  

The writing gig is plodding along, but so is my op. I only get about 2-3 hrs a week that I can plug into writing about growing dope these days, usually about 3-5AM on Sundays (Aus eastern time). 



Seamaiden said:


> Well.. color me happy for him, but totally bummed for us. Wow, a paying gig writing.


 Well, I haven't disappeared from RIU entirely. I just can't put 6-8h/day into it as I once did. It wasn't a ton of cash when I accepted the gig, but it was a good career step as I've picked up more work as a result.



smartsoverambition said:


> good 4 u al b. hopefully ur posts will stay open u've really helped us all out
> 
> peace?


 Thanks for that.  Yes, quite a few posts of mine have remained open and I do check them from time to time. 

Peace on you, too. 



KazzarGrower said:


> what kinda dog was mr ganja


 Ugly. 



Dirty Jerz said:


> Al, i was wondering if you could explain a bit more on how you assemble & wire the resistors, dimmer, and heat sink
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Edit: nevermind found the answer on page 20, thanks al, your amazing


 Glad you found it. 



Top 44 said:


> very cool, thanks Al


 no worries. 



warisnottheanswer said:


> im waaaaaaay late but it got to me when i needed it! thank u AL!


 cool. 



tokinchef said:


> has anyone seen those staking cooling racks for baking... i got one at big lots a while back for 5 bucks...they would work perfectly in these thing....the legs on them stack up and can be stacked as high as u want them to go....they come 3 in a pack...


yep, that would be ideal. Stackable plastic storage racks would also be good. Either are a lot better than anything hanging by chains from the lid of the box, which requires you hold the lid up in the air with one hand while loading/unloading with the other, which is awkward, but when this thing was first built around 2000, it was made with materials on hand. It kept working so I never changed it.


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## DrGreenFinger (Jul 25, 2009)

Great to see ya back, Al B!


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## budence1979 (Oct 29, 2009)

Dude, i built my own bud dryer last week, i made some modifacations to fit my budget, but holy fuck i harvested on Sunday and smoked dry bud on wednesday...+++reps to Al B. Fuct


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## The Good Doctor (Oct 29, 2009)

Nothing takes the place of time and doing it right. Moving air is just that, moving air. Moving air, even alot of it, will not speed up the real curring process. It will speed up drying, but not curring.


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## SOG (Oct 30, 2009)

wassup Al
any updates on Bud dryer v2?


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## Al B. Fuct (Nov 3, 2009)

budence1979 said:


> Dude, i built my own bud dryer last week, i made some modifacations to fit my budget, but holy fuck i harvested on Sunday and smoked dry bud on wednesday...+++reps to Al B. Fuct


 coolio. 

A 3-day bud dryer which doesn't get any warmer than 29C is a useful piece of kit. Stops any possibility of mould while preserving potency. 



The Good Doctor said:


> Nothing takes the place of time and doing it right. Moving air is just that, moving air. Moving air, even alot of it, will not speed up the real curring process. It will speed up drying, but not curring.


'Curing' might be useful for tobacco, where one is smoking leaf material, but it's just not necessary for cannabis. 



SOG said:


> wassup Al
> any updates on Bud dryer v2?


Nope, v2.0 is the final rev. In this form, it holds the air temp to 29C max and gets the job done in 3 days. I don't know if I've covered it in the past, but an intake air filter made from a layer of pantyhose material is useful. Keeps dust and wayward bugs out of the dryer.


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## acepowerz (Nov 3, 2009)

It seems like the bud will be cripsy as fdd said on the first response. Anyhow if it works that would be great!


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## Al B. Fuct (Nov 3, 2009)

Nope, you take the buds out before they are overdried. Even if you do accidentally overdry, it's easy to rehydate them; a couple of teaspoons of water on a paper towel which is nested in with the buds for a few hoursdoes the trick.


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## Don MaJic (Dec 13, 2009)

Hey Al, I've referred to your threads here on RIU for information for quite some time now, so having never posted to say so, I just want to take a quick mo' to show appreciation for the knowledge that you pass on. So, thanks mate! 

Anyway, I have a quick question regarding H2O2, if you have time and assuming you still frequent RIU. 

I've looked most everywhere on Google, aswell as local hydro stores, for the 50% grade flavour in my area, to no avail. The cheapest I can find is only 35% grade via eBay but it's priced at 200GBP (355AUD) for 25L. 

Surely this is excessively overpriced? If so, is there a specific alternative which you might recommend?

Thanks.


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 14, 2009)

Don MaJic said:


> Hey Al, I've referred to your threads here on RIU for information for quite some time now, so having never posted to say so, I just want to take a quick mo' to show appreciation for the knowledge that you pass on. So, thanks mate!


You're quite welcome. 



> Anyway, I have a quick question regarding H2O2, if you have time and assuming you still frequent RIU.
> 
> I've looked most everywhere on Google, aswell as local hydro stores, for the 50% grade flavour in my area, to no avail. The cheapest I can find is only 35% grade via eBay but it's priced at 200GBP (355AUD) for 25L.
> 
> Surely this is excessively overpriced? If so, is there a specific alternative which you might recommend?


Yeah, you're right, that's *waaay* too much. I pay $AUD125/25L for 50% grade from this mob.


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 14, 2009)

Forgot to mention... check foodservice equipment dealers, they usually have 35% H2O2, sold for sterilising equipment like meat slicers, etc. Might be a lot cheaper than what you've found so far.

-edit-

Have done a bit of googling for 'food grade' H2O2 in the UK. I'm _more _than a bit alarmed by some of the uses that some sellers of the stuff recommend. There's a few pseudosciencemongers out there that want you to DRINK the stuff, on the premise that this is somehow good for 'getting more oxygen into the body,' as though your intestines have lungs... 

H2O2 is great for sterilising inorganic hydroponic systems and solutions, thus oxygenating roots and killing pathogens in the rootmasses... but you don't _ever_ want to drink it!


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## Don MaJic (Dec 15, 2009)

Ok, thanks ABF. It seems to be very hard stuff to source in usable amounts (or at a realistic price) in this area, but I'm sure I'll find some eventually. Otherwise, it looks like I'm going down the import route.



> ...but you don't _ever_ want to drink it!


Yeah, it's funny how most other sites that advertise H2O2 have "do not ingest" plastered everywhere.


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 15, 2009)

Don MaJic said:


> Ok, thanks ABF. It seems to be very hard stuff to source in usable amounts (or at a realistic price) in this area, but I'm sure I'll find some eventually. Otherwise, it looks like I'm going down the import route.


Sorry Don, I wish I could be of more help. I do recall someone else in the UK asked me about H2O2, back in the distant mists of time, but I can't recall where that feller found it.



Don MaJic said:


> Yeah, it's funny how most other sites that advertise H2O2 have "do not ingest" plastered everywhere.


Some folks in this world either don't have a grasp on simple science or reckon they can turn a buck with bullshit. You can rest _very_ well assured that anyone telling people to drink H2O2 is one of the two (or even both)...


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## slh puffer (Dec 17, 2009)

Hey guys the most informative post i have read in a lon time Fuct you should be voted medical pot czar in the usa im wondering are there any other sources of heat that someone can use instead of a soldering iron?Since i plan on using a 28gal strongbox??


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 17, 2009)

Thanks for the compliments. 

My dryer's heater is a bunch of resistors mounted to a big heatsink, temp controlled with a thermostat, a 500W HD light dimmer is used to both limit max temp and slow the temp ramp up. Fan is mounted to draw air through the heatsink fins. You could do any number of variations on that theme to suit your dryer.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Thanks for the compliments.
> 
> My dryer's heater is a bunch of resistors mounted to a big heatsink, temp controlled with a thermostat, a 500W HD light dimmer is used to both limit max temp and slow the temp ramp up. Fan is mounted to draw air through the heatsink fins. You could do any number of variations on that theme to suit your dryer.


Al, have read many, many of your threads from front to back, and seeing as you're still popping in here from time to time, I'd just like to say thanks.

From the heart, no bullshit, thanks.

Gonna make a box without a heater (three extra days isn't a big deal to me), and I'll post pics at a later date.

But seriously, for your selfless work, thanks.

And not sure about your drug use at this point in time, but if you'd like to accidentally smoke or snort or ingest any drug in any way and are on the east coast (along the BOS-WASH corridor), drop me a PM.


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## timmythetooth (Dec 17, 2009)

ok quick question - do you need the heat? i have space in my flower room as its 9'5" high. I just wanna put a small dryer with a fan sucking air out and small airholes ontop so that there no light. will this work? i cant risk my buds stinking up my apt.


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 17, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Al, have read many, many of your threads from front to back, and seeing as you're still popping in here from time to time, I'd just like to say thanks.
> 
> From the heart, no bullshit, thanks.


Thanks muchly. 


> Gonna make a box without a heater (three extra days isn't a big deal to me), and I'll post pics at a later date.


Cool. It'll still work OK, the air motion will stop mould from forming, just make sure the racks allow a lot of air to get around the buds. 1/2" hardware cloth makes fine drying racks. 



> But seriously, for your selfless work, thanks.


You're quite welcome. 



> And not sure about your drug use at this point in time, but if you'd like to accidentally smoke or snort or ingest any drug in any way and are on the east coast (along the BOS-WASH corridor), drop me a PM.


My drug use is a real problem. That is to say, I never have enough drugs- and _that's_ a problem.  

I'll keep you in mind should I ever go to the USA again. 



timmythetooth said:


> ok quick question - do you need the heat? i have space in my flower room as its 9'5" high. I just wanna put a small dryer with a fan sucking air out and small airholes ontop so that there no light. will this work? i cant risk my buds stinking up my apt.


As I just said to Bob, it'll work without heat. Organise a fan as an exhaust, 100-120mm is fine, connect it via suitable ducts (dryer vent hose works OK) feeding into a carbon filter or an Odorsok. Mind you, having a heater (with a thermostat controlling heat to 29C max) will dry the buds much faster than without- and the faster you get the buds dry and into bags, the less chance there is for scent to be wafting around your apt.


----------



## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Thanks muchly.
> 
> You're quite welcome.
> 
> ...


It would be my honor, good sir.


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 17, 2009)

Thanks, Bob.  

However, you should know that I think that I've become allergic to airplanes- and especially those going to the US. Beastly place, so uncivilised- but for you, of course.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 18, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Thanks, Bob.
> 
> However, you should know that I think that I've become allergic to airplanes- and especially those going to the US. Beastly place, so uncivilised- but for you, of course.


Take some Sudafed - it'll be worth your while, trust me.

My girl's got some hot friends, it'll be gravy


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## D4rKeN (Dec 18, 2009)

nice device you got yhere


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 18, 2009)

@Bob Smith: mmmm.... hot girls with gravy! Too bad Sudafed spoils my appetite. 

@D4rKeN: thanks, gets the job done.


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## slh puffer (Dec 23, 2009)

Do you have any other heating source instead of a soldering iron??


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 23, 2009)

slh puffer said:


> Do you have any other heating source instead of a soldering iron??


My dryer does not use a soldering iron as a heating element. It uses 6 x 25W power resistors. Back in the mists of time, someone asked me for a heating element that would be simpler to use than a bank of resistors, so I suggested using a 25W soldering iron heating element. In retrospect, that would not have been quite enough to keep the airflow through the dryer at the optimal 29C.


 
​ 
​
This is my bud dryer's schematic, in rev. 2.1.

Note the bank of resistors are now in series-parallel.

A previous version used 2.3k ohm resistors wired in simple parallel. The dimmer doesn't quite pass the full 240V even when fully on (about 205V), so the 2.3k resistors didn't get quite 25W dropped across each one, meaning they didn't get as warm as they possibly could for a 25W resistor. This meant that when ambient air temps outside the dryer were quite low (in winter, as low as about 12C), the airflow out of heater would not come up to the optimal 29C.

So, to make sure I could get the full 25W across each resistor with a 205V supply coming out of the dimmer, I decided to shoot the values a bit lower. The ideal value for 25W @ 205V would have been 1681 ohms. However, I couldn't get 1681 ohm resistors as that's not a standard value.

Instead, I bought 6x 680 ohm, 25W units and organised them in 3 seriesed banks, each bank being 1360 ohms. At 205V, this drops about 30W across each resistor, just a tick too high. To compensate, I use the dimmer to dial back the voltage to about 184V, which sets the power at precisely 25W per resistor. 

In this form, the heater can bring the temp inside the dryer to 29C even when ambient air temps are very low. The thermostat maintains the airflow at exactly 29C at all times, independent of the intake air temp.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

Al, not related to the bud dryer, but have a couple of quick questions, if you wouldn't mind:

1) I saw in your other thread that you thought that Rapid Rooters were not good for E&F, because they were made of organic material that would be broken down by H2O2 - do you still feel this way? I imagine the answer is "yes", just wanna check..........

2) I'm planning an expansion soon, to either a 4x8 table with 2 1Ks or four 3x3 tables with 4 600s (in an 8x8 tent) - if money, time, and space were no object, which would you pick and why?

P.S. - check out my video of my "new" setup on Youtube if you wanna see what idiotic Americans do with their free time..............


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 23, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> 1) I saw in your other thread that you thought that Rapid Rooters were not good for E&F, because they were made of organic material that would be broken down by H2O2 - do you still feel this way? I imagine the answer is "yes", just wanna check..........


Yeah, I'm still not fond of them and never will be. They're unsuitable for any recirculating hydro system. First, being organic material, they'll support mould growth. Second, in inorganic hydro systems which use H2O2, organic matter will break down and fragment. The fragments can clog pumps.




> 2) I'm planning an expansion soon, to either a 4x8 table with 2 1Ks or four 3x3 tables with 4 600s (in an 8x8 tent) - if money, time, and space were no object, which would you pick and why?


I'd choose the 2x 1000s due to lower per watt ballast losses and greater intensity, especially when used with cooltubes. A 1000HPS when running draws 4.62A @ 240V (1108W) from the mains, so a pair will draw 2216W. 600s draw about 2.9A @ 240V, about 696W, 2784W for four. The wattages are similar at 120V, but the currents are doubled. A 1000 will deliver about 150,000 lumens. 600s make about 90,000. In cooltubes, the 1000 can be spaced just as close as a 600, so the 1000 will put much more intensity on the plants, giving greater bud density. Also, cooltubes should be organised so there's no more than 2 cooltubes in series. For 4x 600, you'll need not only 4 cooltubes, but two fans to drive them and a lot of ducting. 



> P.S. - check out my video of my "new" setup on Youtube if you wanna see what idiotic Americans do with their free time..............


Will if I can, a bit busy at the mo.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Yeah, I'm still not fond of them and never will be. They're unsuitable for any recirculating hydro system. First, being organic material, they'll support mould growth. Second, in inorganic hydro systems which use H2O2, organic matter will break down and fragment. The fragments can clog pumps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you kindly; really want the four 600s, but it seems like two 1Ks make the most sense.

Grrrrrr...................the 600 setup is certainly more expensive (by a lot), but I'm really in love with four lights to hit the plants from every angle.

I'll give it some more thought


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 23, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Thank you kindly; really want the four 600s, but it seems like two 1Ks make the most sense.
> 
> Grrrrrr...................the 600 setup is certainly more expensive (by a lot), but I'm really in love with four lights to hit the plants from every angle.
> 
> I'll give it some more thought


Well, whatever blows your hair back, man.  You'll get fine results either way. 

It's just more exxy to run 4x600, especially in acquisition, as you note. It's also another ~600W out of the mains to run the 4x600 arrangement, which adds up to +7.2kWh/day. I pay 16c/kWh, so it would be another $1.16/day (34.56/mo) in power cost. Adds up. 

However, if all is going well for you, $35/mo is a pretty insignificant cost. Consider also that either the 2x1000 or 4x600 arrangement will yield almost exactly the same. 

While you may be enamoured of more point sources of light, it probably won't break your arms to turn plants around now and again. If you're using batwing reflectors (like the large Adjust-A-Wings refs), which spread light quite well, you may not even have to turn plants.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> Well, whatever blows your hair back, man.  You'll get fine results either way.
> 
> It's just more exxy to run 4x600, especially in acquisition, as you note. It's also another ~600W out of the mains to run the 4x600 arrangement, which adds up to +7.2kWh/day. I pay 16c/kWh, so it would be another $1.16/day (34.56/mo) in power cost. Adds up.
> 
> ...


Like you said, the power draw is nothing I'd be too worried about, in all honesty.

The main issue is the $1.5K in upgrade costs vs. the $4K in upgrade costs, but again, that can be recouped fairly quickly.

I also like that I could lower the one light for weeks 0-2 in order to decrease stretching - that's one of the bigger selling points to me, in all honesty.

Can't do that with one 1K covering two trays.

And finally, in regards to "breaking my arms", I'm a lazy friggen stoner 

Thanks again for your input, my friend.


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## DarkCursade (Dec 23, 2009)

Hi, Al B. Fuct Im not sure if your still floating around on the site.

I have read through most of your threads, but I have not come across my following question, with your system, when you 1st put the clones in the flowering cycle how deep to you plant in the rock wool pot to allow water to reach the roots when u flood, as Im finding, as when i put my new rooted clones in tray 1 they dont have the root depth for my flood and drain tray without vegin them for a week and hand watering them from the top.

Also this may seem like an odd question, but what country to u live in? As I seen you post somewhere that you dont live in the USA, and I thought most people here lived in the states. 

Also If anybody else has any input that would be great...


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

DarkCursade said:


> Hi, Al B. Fuct Im not sure if your still floating around on the site.
> 
> I have read through most of your threads, but I have not come across my following question, with your system, when you 1st put the clones in the flowering cycle how deep to you plant in the rock wool pot to allow water to reach the roots when u flood, as Im finding, as when i put my new rooted clones in tray 1 they dont have the root depth for my flood and drain tray without vegin them for a week and hand watering them from the top.
> 
> ...


He is, was here a half hour ago, actually.

You want your rockwool to be 1/2" above the flood line, or it will stay saturated.

Sometimes in E&F handwatering is required (and I believe Al himself said that he's had to do it from time to time, but that you should water around the rockwool to encourage the roots to grow down into whatever your other media is - I'm assuming it's hydroton or coco or something, because if it was rockwool you wouldn't be having this problem).

Al resides in a mountain cave in Australia, I believe 

Al, please set me straight if any of this is incorrect.............


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 23, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Like you said, the power draw is nothing I'd be too worried about, in all honesty.
> 
> The main issue is the $1.5K in upgrade costs vs. the $4K in upgrade costs, but again, that can be recouped fairly quickly.


If the cost doesn't stress you, then flip a coin. It'll work well either way.



> I also like that I could lower the one light for weeks 0-2 in order to decrease stretching - that's one of the bigger selling points to me, in all honesty.
> 
> Can't do that with one 1K covering two trays.


Well, that's how my op is organised- 2x 1000 over 4 trays. New clones being introduced to flowering have previously only been under fluoros in my clone box, so I don't mind them having a bit of additional spacing for the 1st 2 wks. 



> And finally, in regards to "breaking my arms", I'm a lazy friggen stoner


And that's the most persuasive argument of all!


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

Al B. Fuct said:


> And that's the most persuasive argument of all!


Thought you'd like that one


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 23, 2009)

well, yeah.


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## DarkCursade (Dec 23, 2009)

mmm I thought hand watering was going to be the case. I actually am Using all perlite and cubes, an Aussie LOL explains his sense of humour.


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 23, 2009)

DarkCursade said:


> I have read through most of your threads, but I have not come across my following question, with your system, when you 1st put the clones in the flowering cycle how deep to you plant in the rock wool pot to allow water to reach the roots when u flood, as Im finding, as when i put my new rooted clones in tray 1 they dont have the root depth for my flood and drain tray without vegin them for a week and hand watering them from the top.


 My cubes go into my Fytocell media with the cube tops level with the media surface. 

Fytocell has to be dampened with nute soln before the plants go into it. Same with pots stuffed only with RW floc. Starts the wicking action. 

Only in the case of using clay pellets is handwatering needed (for abt the 1st week), since pellets have a very poor wicking action. Don't top or handwater RW floc or Fytocell. They both wick rather well. Top watering isn't needed and may cause probs. Just wet Fytocell or RW once from the top before sticking the plants in. 



> Also this may seem like an odd question, but what country to u live in?


 Orstraya. 



Bob Smith said:


> You want your rockwool to be 1/2" above the flood line, or it will stay saturated.


True, in the case of pots filled with clay pellets. When using media that wicks well, it's not necessary to flood any more than about 25-50mm from the tray floor. 



> Al resides in a mountain cave in Australia, I believe


True. With a dozen (other) ugly trolls and a couple of gargoyles. 



DarkCursade said:


> I actually am Using all perlite and cubes,


Perlite doesn't wick terribly well. You might want to handwater the media around the cube for a few days post potting up, but do a finger test first. Test the dampness with your finger after the system has flooded. If it feels damp 25-50mm down from the media surface, don't top water. Remember- think damp, never wet. Damp is enough. You want roots to seek downward to get established. Don't wet the cube when top watering. 



> an Aussie LOL explains his sense of humour.


I'm US born. My smartassery is decidedly yankee. My apathy & laziness, however, are pure acquired Aussieness.


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## DarkCursade (Dec 23, 2009)

I know there are No stupid questions, only stupid people !!! When I was at school my fav teacher taught me that one Bahaha...

Anyways so when you say wick you mean: Wicking - Certain fabric's ability to pull moisture away from the skin, allowing it to evaporate in order to keep the wearer cool and dry.

I googled it , 

If that is true you pretty much saying Fytocell, absorbs more water then drys out quicker...correct?? And then this is then a better media for flood and drain?


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 23, 2009)

DarkCursade said:


> Anyways so when you say wick you mean: Wicking - Certain fabric's ability to pull moisture away from the skin, allowing it to evaporate in order to keep the wearer cool and dry.


Yeah, water has a tendency to follow certain fibres. I could look up the specific mechanics of the action as I don't know it off the top of my head, but I gotta get off the computer & on to op tasks.



> I googled it ,


I can tell. D:



> If that is true you pretty much saying Fytocell, absorbs more water then drys out quicker...correct?? And then this is then a better media for flood and drain?


RW floc saturates easily, driving all air out of the media and has the potential to cause root probs. RW is easy to overwater. 

Fytocell has a very high air content, but wicks about as well as RW floc. I find I get fewer root probs with it.


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## DarkCursade (Dec 23, 2009)

Cheers mate, 

If Marijuana was a God, then YOU would be 1 of its main Disciples.

I know you hear this alot, but your threads have helped me out alot, saved me alot of time & money. Cheers Mate, Merry Xmas.


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## Al B. Fuct (Dec 24, 2009)

Thanks for that, DC.


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## obsocal (Jan 29, 2010)

Thanks AL for posting this thread.You saved my crop.It is my first crop and it was going good for 10 weeks and then pow,i startd to get some kind of mold or powdery mildew.I went into action,cutting down the worst ones first.That left me with 5 nice plants,3 X Afagan 1,1 X Mazar and my favorite Blueberry X Hawgsbreath.Had to cut down the Mazar first because the shit was starting to come back on it.I needed to dry it out.Saw your thread and built me one of your great bud dryers,Its a little different because i only had one fan and no heatsink.Got me a kitchen exhaust fan on the bottom with the outgoing hole,Blowing halfway out a hole and half back into the container to circulate the air.I drilled about 20 holes on the opposite side of the fan and got some wire racks at the dollar store and made some shelfs out of them,using L brackets to lay them on.All i got to say is that it works great,And im going to build a bigger and better one now that i know how good it works.

Thanks again 
AL


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## Al B. Fuct (Jan 29, 2010)

obsocal said:


> Thanks AL for posting this thread.You saved my crop.


Cool. 




> It is my first crop and it was going good for 10 weeks and then pow,i startd to get some kind of mold or powdery mildew.


Get a sulfur 'burner.' Stops powdery mildew dead. Improve air throughput in the op, make sure exhaust air can't be readily redrawn into the op. 



> Blowing halfway out a hole and half back into the container to circulate the air.


Don't do this. Recirculation is bad. You're trying to remove water molecules from your buds- and those need to go away and not come back. 

Alter the airflow so no air is recirculated. The more airflow, the less chance of mould in the dryer and the quicker the buds will dry. This is especially important when you're not warming the intake air. 

You may find that a dryer which doesn't heat the intake air will be very slow in very high (90%) ambient humidity conditions. If ambient RH remains high, such as during a cool rainy week, buds may remain damp enough to support mould growth! 

Air motion inhibits mould, so make sure it's very windy around the buds, that all intake air is fresh and that air can't be easily redrawn into the box. That's why mine have always been configured like this:






Keep at it.


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## kstampy (Feb 3, 2010)

Found these for $300 on ebay WITHOUT heating element but you have to search under 'flower dryer' lol. Can literally put those together in 10 minutes... that's like $1800 an hour!  Makes me think im in the wrong business, LOL! $500 for BCNLs 'The Dryer' (no heat)? No thanks.

Thank you very much Al, VV, and the others from similar threads that have given me the ideas I need to build my own at a fraction of the 'retail' price. 

It's totally common sense telling me yes it is ok but for the most part I just wanted to double check with you, if my room temps are about 77-82*F or uhh 25-27.5ish*C (35-40%RH) then I should be ok with my environment and no heating element? Maybe it would take an extra 12-24 hours I am guessing but my main concern right now is mold control honestly. I do want to add the heat later though.


21 days to my first harvest and then the room gets remodeled Mr. Fuct style! Still looking for a good 8 week kush, leaning towards Ogre, Platinum OG and Purple Kush. I noticed a couple of your threads saying you have retired from here but clearly that's not totally true . Do you still answer questions related to your op when you have time? I promise I read all 500 pages of your 2 week thread (and most of your others) and it wont be noob BS questions lol. 

Thanks again man, I learned a Lot from you and your views on growing, even with my complete lack of posts on ganja forums. If it works better for you to PM me or point me to another forum just let me know what works for you!

Thanks! 

P.S. If you do have any write ups or any good information on other specific sites such as RIU could you point me there as well? Thanks!


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## GypsyBush (Feb 8, 2010)

Just wanted to say...

 ​


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## boxing119 (Apr 1, 2010)

could i do this with my grow tent? i Have a 4x8 grow tent with an 400 cfm fan sucking the air through my reflectors. so the fresh air is brought in from the bottom vents, and sucks all the air out of the tent.... would this be the same thing because it would still get the air flow from bottom to top, but i would just hang my nugs from the ceiling. seems like the same concept just on a larger scale right?


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## randy2112 (Feb 2, 2011)

Hey, Just take the fan motor off of a hair dryer and mount the remaining piece with the heating element in front of the intake fan with the dimmer just as Al did it. No sourcing heatsinks or resistors...


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## ~Dankster~420 (Mar 25, 2014)

BUMP!! I know this is an old thread, but damn!!! What a good idea!!    + rep on this.


Al B. Fuct said:


> Having buds hanging around air-drying for a long time is a security problem. I cooked up a bud dryer to speed up the process.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Flyovertheplane (Sep 6, 2014)

~Dankster~420 said:


> BUMP!! I know this is an old thread, but damn!!! What a good idea!! View attachment 3034208   + rep on this.


I read this thread over 5 times,this is the sixth


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