# Total Hydroponic Control (T.H.C.) - The build starts NOW!



## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 15, 2012)

Hello Rollitup, its been a while since I was last here, and consequently, this is a new account. I've been through 5 indoor grows, and 3 outdoor grow seasons. I will start out by saying, that when it comes to growing cannabis I am clearly an amateur. However, I've been working with automation for over 5 years. I am currently employed by a fortune 500 company, and when I wake up everyday I head to work to argue with high speed manufacturing, and process control systems. I'm familiar with Allen Bradley, Automation Direct, Koyo, Omron, Gidding & Lewis, and G.E. PLC's. I eat, breathe, and sleep, automation.

Lately I've been very intrigued with the D.I.Y. automation here on Rollitup. It is clear that RIU is a community of intelligent, driven individuals who are more than willing to share their knowledge and expertise. I applaud all of you who are continually striving to add integrity, knowledge, and ingenuity to the world of marijuana.

This thread is to be my opportunity to share my knowledge on growing, in the manner I am most capable of: Automation.

While many of you have undertaken Arduino projects, with great success, I will be developing a grow system centered around proven industrial process control equipment. I love the arduino platform for hobby projects, and it certainly is a great fit for growers without a significant budget. I will explain in detail why i have made each of the equipment choices I've made, in the hopes that you the reader will understand why even though the price seems significant, the benefits counteract the initial investment. 

The goal of the system is complete and total automation. What does that mean? Watering, feeding, lighting control, temperature control, humidity control, co2 control, ph control, and security. If marijuana was grown by multi billion dollar corporation, inside giant facilities, their systems would look and operate strikingly similar to what I intend to build, just on a much larger scale than my project. My grow system will be industrial hardened, capable of withstanding harsh environments and demanding situations. This entire thread will encompass the automation, instead of the growing. A grow journal will follow the completion of the project.

Lets start with a system summary. Including a budget. The budget for this project is 5 thousand dollars. Don't cringe, we have a lot to accomplish!

Equipment summary
PLC - The brain of the operation.
HMI - Human machine interface, a touch screen which allows user manipulation, for changing timers, PID loops settings, schedules, etc etc. The HMI talks directly to the PLC.
EC/ PH transmitter - This device sends information to the plc regarding current ph, and current conductivity.
co2 transmitter - this device sends information the the plc regarding the co2 levels at the sensor
temp/humidity transmitter - this device sends information regarding the temperature and humidity of the environment back to the PLC controller
Relays - to control the flow of power to devices
Liquid level sensors - to monitor reservoir heights
solenoid valves - to control water flow to the reservoir/hydroponic system.
Miscellaneous control wiring to the various remote devices
peristaltic pumps - to dose nutrients into the reservoir

I will go into more specifics of the project in a short while. But until those post start happening. I should probably leave you with a teaser to prove this project is happening, even as we speak...

Pictures are worth how many thousands of words? I'll try to do a little explaining with each picture....

This is an HMI. Its a 6 in Automation Direct touch screen interface. It retails for 699.00$ USD. Its ethernet capable, which means a user can connect the system to their home network and monitor the operator screens from anywhere in the world. It will display all current environmental levels, and allow for the input of schedules and desired levels. It has a built in html server which means you can custom design an accompanying website which loads much the same way a user logs in to control settings. It can send email alerts on any system variable. For instance if the ph drifts out of a range you will get an email letting you know, if the temperature exceeds a safety limit and the controller shuts the system down to prevent damage, it will send you an email to let you know. All screens, and the system itself can be password protected to multiple user levels.

This is belden signal cable. When it comes to transmitters, and sending analog data, belden is the way to go. This is a 100' reel of 22 gauge 3 twisted, and shielded pair. I will be using it to transmit the analog signals from the ph/ec transmitter back to the plc. The foil shield and twisting of this signal pairs is what makes this cable so unique, and capable in an industrial setting, together these two features help to eliminate, RF, EMI, and other common mode disturbances, which can cause anomalies in any electrical system. All signals will be 4-20 mA signals. There are several industry standard control signals, the primary two being +-0-10v, and +-0-20 mA. I exclusively use 4-20 mA because of its resilience to electrical noise. My main concern with electronics in a grow room is electrical noise from digital ballasts. Proper grounding, and bonding, along with an aggressive noise control plan is key to preventing stray signals from negatively impacting your process. This is one of the reasons I cringe when I review arduino projects. Most arduino applications utilize voltage signals, including 0-1, 0-5vdc. These systems are incredibly susceptible to electrical noise. Because a 4-20mA loop relies on current, instead of voltage, there is a certain degree of inherent noise immunity. Retail 107$

This is belden 2 pair twisted shielded cable, 100 ft. Retail 54$

This is two nema 12 enclosures, one will house the PLC and HMI, the other will contain the ph/ec transmitter. A nema 12 enclosure is rated for dust, debris, and splash environments. Going to a nema 4x enclosure would also make them wash down rated, meaning you could literally take a garden hose to your grow controller. I don't plan on watering my controller, just the plants, but in a worst case scenario all of this equipment is splash rated, including the touch screen hmi. A third enclosure as large as the first will contain the outlets, and relays for controlling external devices, such as air conditioners, pumps, ballasts, etc. the 16x12x8 enclosures were bought for 79$ each, the 8x6x4 enclosure was purchased for 54$

Simple enough: PH/EC calibration, cleaning, storage solutions. If you have a digital meter you've used these before. Made by Hanna Instruments.

This is the ph/ec transmitter. It sends back 2 analog signals to the PLC controller. Both signals are 4-20 mA. Example: If the ph of the solution is 14, the ph signal is at 20mA, if the ph is at 2, the signal is 0 mA. This controller has galvanically isolated outputs to mitigate possible sources of noise back to the controller. The ph and ec probe are separate units. This transmitter retails for 400$ Made by Hanna Instruments.


This is the EC probe, it sends an un amplified signal back to the ph/ec transmitter, which then processes that signal, and scales it to the output range. This probe retails for 130$. It should never need replacement. Made by Hanna Instruments.

This is the PH sensor. It also send an unamplified signal back to the transmitter, which does all of the scaling before sending back a processed signal to the PLC. This probe retails for 125$. It should be replaced, like almost all probes, once a year. Especially since it will be submersed and measuring the ph 24 hours a day. Also made by Hanna Instruments.

Relays, and Relay bases. For controlling the flow of electricity to the external devices. 100$ in miscellaneous wiring supplies. Automation direct.


Terminal blocks, to make wiring less cluttered and more organized. Automation Direct.

Relative humidity and temperature transmitter. It will send back 2 separate analog signals to the plc in the form of 4-20mA loops. Its measuring range is from 0-100 percent relative humidity, and -32 - 140 degrees Celsius. This transmitter is made by OMEGA engineering, it retails for 175$

The BRAINS of the beast. This is a koyo/direct automation, DL06 PLC. It is capable in executing over a thousand boolean arguments in under a millisecond. It can control up to 8 P.I.D. Loops. It has expansion for up to 4 expansion cards. Slot one is occupied by an analog input module, this module can accept up to 8 different analog inputs, all 4-20 milliamp range. We have 1. Temp 2. Humidity 3. Ph 4. EC. 5. C02.. A total of 5 analog inputs. This controller is programmed with Directsoft programming software. The software bundle which includes all features retails for 495$. It can program any of the direct automation line of PLC's, including the DL05, DL06, DL205 series, DL305 Series, and DL405 hardware series. The Analog input card retails for 130$, and the DL06 PLC retails for only 239$... Even though the PLC is in charge of everything, it actually carries a very small part of the project budget. These controllers are VERY reasonably priced. So a total for the PLC including software and cards comes to 864$, add an analog output card for control of the dosing pumps and we round it to 1000$




Questions and comments are welcome. In fact, they will drive the direction, and detail of this thread. I will continue to update the thread with the status of the overall project as I move through all of the developmental stages, up until the point its controlling a grow room. I will answer as many questions as I can. Thanks for checking it out, and I hope that someone can take something away from my experiences to improve their own. Cheers!


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## Sparky22 (May 15, 2012)

Wow this looks like it could be amazing! With all that technology you could hone nutrients and environmental aspects to a T. Subbed


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## DIYer (May 15, 2012)

Hey man, nice bunch of expensive looking toys you got there  I'm all about automation, i always say i would rather man the machine then be it. 

I'm most interested in the peristaltic pumps to dose nutrients into the reservoir, or more so how you intend to rig that up? I recently started a DIY to gravity dose my res, went with a liquid level controller and some solenoids only, whole thing cost me around $130 and i'm about done with it, here. How do you plan to have adjustability in the amount you dose? I couldn't figure out a convenient way with pumps, so i went with syringes in my build.
subbed.


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## Solemhypnotic (May 16, 2012)

That's an amazing idea, well thought out too. Something like that would come in handy for a large scale grow. You should look into marketing this.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 16, 2012)

DIYer, I was lurking in your thread earlier, and I couldn't help but admire the great lengths you've gone to in order to feed your plants without much human intervention. 

I chose peristaltic pumps for a number of reasons.

Firstly they are incredibly consistent and accurate when it comes to pumping a specific volume in a given amount of time. 
They generate positive displacement and require no priming. Because of this your not at the mercy of gravity, these pumps can generate enough vacuum to actually LIFT nutrients from bulk bottles.

The solutions being pumped never actually touch the pump! Only the tubing its being pumped through. The non contact feature of peristaltic pumps is incredibly important for PH chemicals. All of my pumps will utilize silicone tubing which is known for its resistance to chemical corrosion.

I plan to run two part Lucas formula and a PH up and PH down. Which will require a total of four pumps. The two pumps controlling nutrients will be a little more special than the PH pumps. With PH I'm not so concerned with volume, just the PH... But with the nutrients its critical that I hold a constant ratio between part a, and part b. This will be accomplished by coupling the pumps to variable speed motors. The motors speed will be set by the plc and will directly reflect a nutrient ratio. With Lucas formula its one part micro, to two parts flower, which makes for an easy solution to the problem, one pump will run at full speed while the other runs at 50% speed. Any ratio could be accomplished.


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## DIYer (May 16, 2012)

I don't much feel at the mercy of gravity, i'm really glad to have its consistent accuracy in my grow room. If it goes away, i'm not gonna much be worried about growing anyway, ha! I didn't need to prime anything, just let it flow downhill. I'll be interested to see the accuracy you obtain for that cost, i know my gravity drip dosing system is repeating dosing within 1ml, so about 1/20 the total volume to be dosed, seems plenty accurate enough to me, especially when i remember how i use to use a .5 measuring cup before, haha.. How big a res you plan to use? If you're dropping that much coin i hope you plan to keep it small and feed your ladies the freshest of mixes, but i'm just a stale res hater is all so don't mind me


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## AdvancedNewbie (May 16, 2012)

Nice equipment. Do you plan on using ladder logic with your PLC or are you planning on writing some code? Wonderware has a nice development platform you should check out if you haven't heard of it - that's what I originally wanted to do but opt out for creating my own software and code for the arduino, cheaper, but not exactly industry standard. The Wonderware software is great for ladder logic and setting up man-machine interfaces for on the PC.

http://global.wonderware.com/EN/Pages/WonderwareDevelopmentStudio.aspx



[video=youtube_share;GszmxAv3VKA]http://youtu.be/GszmxAv3VKA[/video]


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## DIYer (May 16, 2012)

120K and growing?  OMG!! what a metropolis.. 
Seems like a lot of overkill for anything less then a massive growing setup, maybe if the gov did it someday you could win their bid though, ha. ironical.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 16, 2012)

I am well versed with Wonderware software. You are correct on many accounts. Wonderware is incredibly powerful, flexible software. Unfortunately WonderWares greatest pitfall is its price. Wonderware licenses require yearly renewall. Development licenses start at 1500 dollars a year, and runtime licenses run around 800 dollars. Thats a YEARLY fee that must be paid for continued support. In 10 years it will cost you well over 15 grand to run a single Wonderware application if you also own a development license. The development license is what allows you to create programs.

Regarding Ladder logic. The Automation direct DL06 PLC which I'm using as the controller, is programmed entirely in Ladder Logic. I can also program PLC's in Function Block, and Structured text. But the DL06 is only capable of Ladder.

DIYer, The pumps are incredibly accurate. These pumps can be sized down to less than a milliliter per minute. Meaning that if you wanted, you could dose in tenths of a ml very EASILY. All peristaltic pumps have very uniform feed rates. The reservoir can be sized to whatever you like, and then a peristaltic pump can be matched to the size. The pumps I've spec'd out will be perfect for anything between 10 and 200 gallons. But pumps could be sized for thousands of gallons quite easily. 

Initial nuting of a fresh reservoir is the easiest part. Take the needed mililiters of each nutrient divide it by the pumps mL per minute rating and you have a run time for initial dosing. NOW for the cooler part. I see your system is drain to waste, which means you mix a new batch of nutes each time you feed. My system is also designed for maintaining a reservoir that is constantly recycling the nutes. After each feeding cycle the controller measure the PH and EC, and then the Proportional Integral Derivative (PID) Loops activate the needed pumps to restore the reservoir to its set points. As long as the DC motors maintain speed ratios in accordance to the nutrient ratios, the reservoir will continue to maintain the exact 2:1 nutrient ratio that is required - minus any difference that the plants create through absorbtion, (I can only monitor total dissolved solids, theres no way for me to check N-P-K ratios). Essentially this means never again touching nutrients or ph chemicals, unless its to change a bulk bottle, which could take several months, if not longer. The Nutrient bottles will have mixers to maintain uniform consistency.


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## DIYer (May 16, 2012)

Total.Hydroponic.Control said:


> (I can only monitor total dissolved solids, theres no way for me to check N-P-K ratios). Essentially this means never again touching nutrients or ph chemicals, unless its to change a bulk bottle, which could take several months, if not longer. The Nutrient bottles will have mixers to maintain uniform consistency.


hmmm,... if you can't check N-P-K ratios, just TDS, i don't see how you're ever going to be able to give your plants the right ratios after your initial res mix. Why go that far with a system, and not run DTW? If you recirculate, you're never going to know your plants don't like a lot of one chemical, from one of your 2 bottles, and you'll just keep adding more back, causing lock out. My HPA DTW system uses less then 1.6 gallons of water a day, to water 6 full grown flowering moms. Little .2 second pulses of 50 micron mist ever 90 seconds is whats hitting my roots, very little runs off, would seem silly to toss it back in my res and have it muck up my ratio. In my setup i'll only ever have to fill a bulk bottle too, and i'm mixing mine with air bubbles, which if they say to shake it before use have to be ok.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 16, 2012)

I have run recirculating systems before, and reservoir changes once ever two weeks has worked incredibly well for me. I've never experienced a situation where after two weeks the nutrients had fallen so far out of range that it was causing plant stress. I'm more concerned with maintaining a target TDS/EC than maintaining the NPK ratios. The whole idea behind the nutrient ratios in the first place is that its been established that the plant uses those nutrients in a uniform manner, congruent with the schedule. I grow using aero, and no media. The roots hang in a chamber exposed to oxygen between feeding intervals (1 minute on, 5 minutes off), so i have no choice other than re-circulation being there is no media to store water/nutes.

The reservoir changes will be automated too.. drain and fill, so the only time I'll be touching the res is during a cleaning.


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## DIYer (May 16, 2012)

So let me get this right,.. you're going to automate the holy ever living hell out of all this grow,... and still change your own res every 2 weeks? Seems silly to me when you can just not over saturate the roots in the first place, and let your runoff go down the drain, i bet it will be way less then you toss every two weeks. Again, i hope you go with a small res in this setup.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 16, 2012)

An ultra sonic sensor will monitor the resivour level to the accuracy of an 1/8th inch. The reservoir will go through a drain/rinse/fill sequence once every two weeks. in between the automated reservoir change sequence the reservoir ph and EC will be maintained by PID loop. The reservoir size has yet to be determined... and it doesn't need to be, the PID's can be adjusted for any reservoir size.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 16, 2012)

I don't really like wasting water either... so the waste water will be pumped up to my rain water collection barrel outside the house, to be used for the lawn, and vegetable garden. I refuse to grow with any medium, I am stuck on aero.


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## Bob Smith (May 16, 2012)

TotalControl, really sick setup - can't wait to see this work out 

Ignore any trolls - you know when you come in here talking about the initial startup costs a lot of people who can't afford it are going to hate on you 

Best of luck.


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## DIYer (May 16, 2012)

Understood THC, but that setup will waste more water then drain to waste, everything does. It seems if this system were ever done on the scale its really intended for, DTW would be the only sensical thing to do. For the environment, and your wallet. You paid for those chemicals you'll be pouring away every two weeks.

EDIT
Get over yourself bobby, you're the only troll here. No ones talking about the cost, and you're also the only dumbass assuming what others can and can't afford. This is obviously meant for a large scale op, even if it's initially setup on a small scale, no sense in not doing how it would be done on a large scale IMO. If you're just building it to build it, like the guy making the robot to tend his plants, go for it. But if you intend to market it, you might has well make it make as much sense for the type of buyers that will be interested. No one is doing this on a super big scale and dumping res's.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 16, 2012)

Hey Bob . I don't think DIYer is hating at all. He makes a lot of very relevant points. Most of those points I have already considered the pro's and con's. This really will be an entirely hands off system, and even though a circulating reservoir will be involved, I promise right now, that it will only be touched for cleaning. Reservoir changes will be handled by the controller. I've done the whole reservoir change thing, and its not for me. DTW would be ideal, but my growing method of choice prevents it. Thanks for checking it out!


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 16, 2012)

DIYer... I have to completely agree with you... If this system was controlling 20 kilowatts worth of lighting, DTW would be the only way to go. Thankfully this system can be configured any way you want. Drain to waste would actually be an easier setup from a programming stand point. In fact, to honor your input and logical arguments, I will include a setup page which gives the user a choice between drain to waste, and recirculation.


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## DIYer (May 16, 2012)

A system like this would be tits along with a 'growing method of choice' that mirrors the efficiency of the system. You should look into High Pressure Aero. It's a hell of a lot to digest at first, and it'll take awhile to dial in just right, but if you're just doing what amounts to soakponics now anyway, you wont do worse right out of the gate, and very little water will you waste  just 2 cents,.. not trolling,.. LIKE BOB,.. lol


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 16, 2012)

Here is the touch screens home page. Blue boxes are displays. Orange Boxes are Screen changes, and A color yet to be determine will be user inputs.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 16, 2012)

Apologies for the screen distortion, this is a simulation of the actual screen, when it was converted to JPeg it caused some distortion.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 17, 2012)

T.H.C. Temp Screen. There will be two temp screens, second to be posted shortly. Temperature screens include settings for the A/C and exhaust fans. When they are turned on the temperature setpoint determines whether or not they run. An emergency temp shutdown setting will allow the user to shut the entire system down if temperatures go beyond the emergency setpoint. Second page includes the deadband, and cycle times for the a/c and fans.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 17, 2012)

Temp Screen 2. Deadband settings.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 17, 2012)

System overview, for those of you trying to visualize the organization of components.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 17, 2012)

Humidity control screen. Including current value, setpoint, deadband setpoint, Auto/Manual control of both humidifier and dehumidifier.


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## hammer21 (May 18, 2012)

Agree with diyer using dosing pumps not a good idea because you will never know what your low on only thing your controller will know is what your sensors are telling it need more nutes need more ph down wait need more ph up wait need more nutes etc you will be chasing a ghost. Drain to waste is the best for 100 percent growth perfect every time when you top off your res. Bottom line You may will never know exactly what the plant is using more of in the nute solution.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 18, 2012)

That is what reservoir changes are for. Anyone who runs a recirculating system uses reservoir changes... It's nothing new to growers. Recirculating systems have proven themselves time and time again. Anyone running a recirculating system is aiming for a Target EC and running a nutrient schedule. The nutrient dosing ratio maintains window Target npk ratios, and the weekly, or bimonthly reservoir change takes care of any imbalance caused by variation in nutrient uptake. When your running drain to waste, you may know exactly what the npk ratio is of your nutes but that doesn't mean the plant is using that exact ratio anyway. Both methods require some forgiveness on the plants part.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 18, 2012)

Deadband will handle any searching on the part of a controller. Example: PH deadband will be set for .2 PH. If the setpoint is 5.8 that means the controller will PH adjust to 5.8 and then wait until the current value falls outside a .2 PH window before is tries to correct it. Drift is normal with PH and EC.. that is why deadband is so important, so your not constantly adjusting up and down.


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## in10ceguy (Jun 3, 2012)

Anyone used these transmitters? 

You may find them here
http://webpages.charter.net/tdsmeter/products.html


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## Atarijedi (Jun 3, 2012)

DIYer said:


> Hey man, nice bunch of expensive looking toys you got there  I'm all about automation, i always say i would rather man the machine then be it.
> 
> I'm most interested in the peristaltic pumps to dose nutrients into the reservoir, or more so how you intend to rig that up? I recently started a DIY to gravity dose my res, went with a liquid level controller and some solenoids only, whole thing cost me around $130 and i'm about done with it, here. How do you plan to have adjustability in the amount you dose? I couldn't figure out a convenient way with pumps, so i went with syringes in my build.
> subbed.


You can get peristaltic pumps that put out at minimum 0.1mL/sec (+- 0.05mL) and 1mL/sec maximum, that should be more than enough control to dose a reservoir over 1L. At 10L that will give you 10ppm resolution.


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## Atarijedi (Jun 3, 2012)

I wish I had the money to purchase a standalone HMI and all the transmitters. I have a SLC504 (16ID, 16IA, 16OD, 16OA) setup sitting boxed up in a closet somewhere from when I was in college, I intend to use it for something someday, lol.

That said, I am doing something similar, but I am having to build everything myself to cut costs and will be using a microcontroller (AVR or PIC, haven't decided) or maybe something like the Raspberry Pi running linux, or both!

The way I have designed my setup is similar to yours, except my grow is a perpetual soil-less SoG, clone to flower. So I will have 6 separate containers (5 for flower, 1 for mother) that need to be independently monitored for pH, EC/TDS, and temperature, as well as 4 peristaltic pumps (pH up, pH down, Nutes, fresh water) per container. Then all the atmospheric monitoring and control, oi vey!

That said, you can get the peristaltic pumps off of eBay dirt cheap, that is including the head pump, a dc motor, and a mounting bracket. The ones I'm getting pH and nutes will be $20 each and have a dosing rate between 0.1mL/sec and 1mL/sec (+- 0.05mL), and since I will only be using 1 bottle of nutes, simply measuring EC/TDS will be enough for determining ppm.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Jul 11, 2012)

Atarijedi said:


> I wish I had the money to purchase a standalone HMI and all the transmitters. I have a SLC504 (16ID, 16IA, 16OD, 16OA) setup sitting boxed up in a closet somewhere from when I was in college, I intend to use it for something someday, lol.
> 
> That said, I am doing something similar, but I am having to build everything myself to cut costs and will be using a microcontroller (AVR or PIC, haven't decided) or maybe something like the Raspberry Pi running linux, or both!
> 
> ...


I'm most comfortable programming ladder logic with Allen Bradley hardware. Unfortunately Allen Bradley is quite expensive. That is why I chose to build the entire system off of Automation Direct hardware. It is much more reasonable.

My employer is a fortune 500 company, and all new hardware coming into the facility is Allen Bradley. An Allen Bradley HMI can cost up to 6 grand. 

While AB does have an incredibly attractive, and user friendly product, I can't justify those costs for a project like this.

If I was designing a system for a collective, or a dispensary where the initial investment would be offset almost immediately, then Allen Bradley could easily be justified. 

An update on this system...


I know its been quite a while, but my primary job carries responsibilities that come first.

The logic for the PLC is 90% complete. The HMI screens have been completed and include 26 such user input screens.

The enclosures cutouts have been made, and this project is moving on to the assembly stage. All electrical prints have been completed.

Here is a picture of this weekend, debugging the system with a transmitter simulator.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Jul 11, 2012)

in10ceguy said:


> Anyone used these transmitters?
> View attachment 2197122
> You may find them here
> http://webpages.charter.net/tdsmeter/products.html


I'm not a big fan of 0-5V signals for an environment where you could be battling electrical noise from digital ballasts. If this manufacturer could provide a 4-20mA option I would be much more interested. 0-5v can be stable, and the 0-10v range is a widely utilized industrial standard due to the ease of measurement (you can check the signal without breaking the circuit), but this project is centered around noise control, and 0-5v can't carry a signal with the same range, and noise immunity that 4-20mA can.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Jul 16, 2012)

Alarms have been set up, all alarm points including PH, EC, TEMP, HUMIDITY, and CO2 are capable of sending an email to warn the user that a parameter has ventured outside user setpoints.

I've also finished setting up the remote ip features. Users with the proper login information will be able to remotely control the entire process from a computer, iphone, or ipad. Currently android is unsupported, but hopefully that will change soon.

If anyone is brave enough to help me test it, please throw me a pm and I will furnish you with the ip address and required login information... you can then romp around the screens and leave any feedback you might have afterwards. Experienced growers who know which features make their lives easier could be of great significance for debugging.


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## edlikestoboogie (Oct 10, 2012)

Hey guys. You should check out this product: www.robomatic.com . They are a new company that launched at the San Francisco 2012 Indoor Gardening expo. they have a networked capable EC/PH/TDS sensor. Two of them.. With microSD card logging and webserver. Basicly what you are trying to do.. They are a lot cheaper than building your own. Especially time invested at under $1000 for a three peristaltic pump system.

check it out

www.robomatic.com


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## Atarijedi (Oct 10, 2012)

edlikestoboogie said:


> Hey guys. You should check out this product: www.robomatic.com . They are a new company that launched at the San Francisco 2012 Indoor Gardening expo. they have a networked capable EC/PH/TDS sensor. Two of them.. With microSD card logging and webserver. Basicly what you are trying to do.. They are a lot cheaper than building your own. Especially time invested at under $1000 for a three peristaltic pump system.
> 
> check it out
> 
> www.robomatic.com


Cheaper? Not likely. It isn't overly complicated to do all that. I could probably build it myself for less than $100. Probes not included.


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## KBaN (Apr 26, 2013)

Whats the status of this project?


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 22, 2013)

My "real" job has been incredibly tasking for the last several months. I've been busy working on several large servo applications. But this project was where my heart was. NO MORE EXCUSES.

During this last week this project has really raced towards maturity. All sensors have been calibrated, and the functions of the controller have all been tested. Heres an overview.


First screen. System Overview, all environmental variables can be viewed from this screen. From here various other screens control the real world outputs to achieve the set points of your environment. The controller sends email and text messages regarding parameters that have crawled outside user dictated settings.
View attachment 2667682
This is the PH and EC transmitter. 
View attachment 2667685
PH and EC probes. Very rugged. Non submersible. These probes will be inserted in wells. The EC probe will NEVER need to be replaced. The PH probe will last up to two years.
View attachment 2667686
Here is an example of a lighting screen. This screen shows output conditions along with allowing the light cycle to be adjusted and start time to be entered. 
View attachment 2667687
Another lighting screen. This screen include the hot restart protection timer. The HPS or MH will not be allowed to restart after an off condition until the user settable time has elapsed. It also includes a bypass feature for the hot restart timer, along with a manual over ride.
View attachment 2667688
Every parameter, including ph, ec, temp, humidity, and co2 level are trend graphed. The controller displays up to a hundred hours of logged data, and by simply plugging in a compact flash card into the HMI it will store any amount of data you could desire. This means you can go back at any time during the grow and view the conditions that resulted in either a fantastic harvest, or a sub par harvest.
View attachment 2667689
Exhaust, circulation, and air conditioning screen. Also includes a safety temp feature. This is a user settable temp at which all field devices are shut down do to a severe over temperature.
View attachment 2667690
Here is one of two main enclosures, this enclosure handles all the switching of high loads, also present is the power line filter, and 24 volt power supply which provides control power to much of the unit. You can see on the swing up door the receptacles which are front facing. Field devices like the HPS ballast, pumps, fans, and other controlled devices plug into this distribution panel, and then the power flow to them is controlled by the lower set of relays pictured. These relays are driven by the plc in the "control" cabinet.
View attachment 2667692
View attachment 2667693
This is where the PLC, or CPU resides, along with the HMI, this cabinet is devoted to processing and displaying signals.
View attachment 2667694
The next and final phase of this controller build will be the high precision dosing system. These are high speed output cards which will feed a pulse train to 4 stepper motors controlling sub-mililiter accuracy dosing pumps. These pumps are capable of generating a vacuum for lift applications, and can dose into a pressurized line with incredible repeatability. After the dosing module is complete this unit will be headed out to a lucky grower for a nearly hands free test run. The system should be fully capable of creating a stress free, low maintenance, zero hassle hydroponic environment for any number of lucky ladies.
View attachment 2667695
View attachment 2667696


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## Scotty Pot Seed (May 22, 2013)

I love the idea of a completely automated system. I find myself worrying about keeping things tweeked all the time. However I think the end reward feels better when you know it was YOUR accomplishment. However, a flawless system that puts money into your hands with little to no effort feels pretty good too


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (May 24, 2013)

I would never recommend complete automation to someone learning to grow. This system will show its real benefits when dialing in a room to the exact needs of a given strain. Sometimes it's hard to ensure a perfect environment when away from the garden even for just a day. This system will ensure that the environmental and nutritional parameters your striving to achieve are maintained 24/7. It cannot not take a poor grower and turn them into a master, but it can greatly reduce time spent maintaining a garden so that a great gardener can focus on other pursuits. Imagine the goals you could set for yourself if ph, temp, humidity, conductivity, and co2 concentration fall to "behind the scenes" . You can then systematically observe how simple, controlled changes to the environment realistically affect the end yield and quality.


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## contraptionated (May 24, 2013)

Total.Hydroponic.Control said:


> My "real" job has been incredibly tasking for the last several months. I've been busy working on several large servo applications. But this project was where my heart was. NO MORE EXCUSES.
> 
> During this last week this project has really raced towards maturity. All sensors have been calibrated, and the functions of the controller have all been tested. Heres an overview.
> 
> ...


I applaud you, sir, in your efforts to bring the ultimate environment to your grow room. I read through your most recent post and I can't find any mention of automatic or on demand water changes on a timed cycle or push of a button. I am thinking that it is implied through the mention of many a timer and various control aspects. What kind of level sensor are you using to let the system know where low and high water level is to initiate or de-activate a dewatering and/or watering pump? I'm very curious... We can compare notes . I have an automatic system but I don't use a screen to alert me of the water parameters. I simply have stable dialed in conditions with the help of a DIY variation of Fatmans nutes, stable pH from potassium hydroxide and the penultimate ventilation by means of a perforated raised semi-reflective floor (which passive intake air flows through) and exhaust ports located above the hoods (bottom to top airflow, what could be better) .


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Jun 29, 2013)

contraptionated said:


> I applaud you, sir, in your efforts to bring the ultimate environment to your grow room. I read through your most recent post and I can't find any mention of automatic or on demand water changes on a timed cycle or push of a button. I am thinking that it is implied through the mention of many a timer and various control aspects. What kind of level sensor are you using to let the system know where low and high water level is to initiate or de-activate a dewatering and/or watering pump? I'm very curious... We can compare notes . I have an automatic system but I don't use a screen to alert me of the water parameters. I simply have stable dialed in conditions with the help of a DIY variation of Fatmans nutes, stable pH from potassium hydroxide and the penultimate ventilation by means of a perforated raised semi-reflective floor (which passive intake air flows through) and exhaust ports located above the hoods (bottom to top airflow, what could be better) .



Reservoir changes can be set to a periodic trigger, or a manual one. For those running drain to waste the entire nute reservoir can be batched each time, in which case your essentially running a full reservoir change each feeding. Water level is controlled via ultra sonic sensor. Here is a video of the stepper peristaltic pumps being used for the nute injection system. Steppers are far more accurate than PWM controlled DC motors, and they have a far longer service life as there are no brushes. The stepper drives are controlled via high speed pulses, in this video they are being simulated through a process meter, the value on the meter indicates the frequency in pulses per second, or hertz.

[video=youtube_share;3SnTnyzH47M]http://youtu.be/3SnTnyzH47M[/video]


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## JohnJonesTheGardener (Jun 30, 2013)

Fantastic setup. I've used something similar (steelworks effluent treatment plant) and they are brilliant. One question though, does yours record the input data? I realise that it sends alerts if they system goes outside of it's parameters but, sometimes it's useful to see when any variations are occurring, however minute they may be.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Jun 30, 2013)

parameters are all graphed on data trend screens, each parameter is recorded hourly. Parameters are all stored in excel spreadsheet format and stored to a compact flash card for review when necessary. Because the unit is FTP capable, the spreadsheet can be downloaded remotely.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Jun 30, 2013)

Trend screen is the seventh image, these images were posted earlier but seem to have disappeared.


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## JohnJonesTheGardener (Jun 30, 2013)

Cool. I tried to view the images... thanks for re-uploading them. Could this, or something similar also be used to control fan speed, for use with a vented hood?
Is ladder language hard to learn? I read the wikipedia article on it and it seems extremely simple but, wikipedia is hardly a complete and accurate source of information.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Jun 30, 2013)

Its no harder than learning any programming language. The core of ladder logic is simply boolean expressions. Ladder logic isn't difficult until you get to pid loops, coodinated motion control, and complex data manipulation. Its more important to understand electronic fundamentals than the nuances of ladder logic. If you can program in any computer language you can easily grasp ladder logic. Ideal control of fan speed would be through the use of a 3 phase motor being controlled by a variable frequency drive. You can also use pulse width modulation but it will make more noise. Chances are, if the operation is of considerable size, 3 phase power is available and being utilized in which case a 3 phase fan motor is ideal. Furthermore many drives allow for a single phase input (115-240v) and then the power is converted on a dc bus, and rebuilt into a 3 phase sign wave with FETS.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Jun 30, 2013)

Here are two samples of ladder logic... one of the samples is purely boolean logic, the second is data manipulation. The hardest part about programming ladder logic is understanding different numbering systems (binary, octal, decimal, hexadecimal, BCD, etc) and how that data must be manipulated in order to use certain operators on that data. Many times an instruction will only work on one data type, but your data is stored as another, knowing when and why data must be manipulated is most of the battle.


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## ASMALLVOICE (Jul 1, 2013)

Very Nice Setup M8.

I too have been in the automation field for longer than I care to mention. Lol. I use an automation system as well, and it does all with the exception of managing actual nutrient levels. I will eventually get a ph and ec transmitter as I can read voltage or milliamp inputs. It uses a type of graphical programming (still Boolean based) but much nicer to work with. The trending capabilities are excellent, as every point can be graphed or work off of COV. It can send a text or page and alarm at the pc for any failures I have like pumps, fans and lights. With pc anywhere, I can access it from remote and change schedules and/or set points. As soon as I get the growing part down, I will then go for full automation on the nutrients as well, but I have a bit to go.
I have very wicked reigns on my grow room environment, now, just have to learn to grow right...lol

Looking forward to seeing your setup in action. 

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice


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## dochickory (Jul 6, 2013)

Boy! very nice job, do ya have a final on cost yet? 4k-5k?, I'm thinking frame 4 of your pics is the ph/ec sensors, and what is the controlled load range (in watts/amps) for lights? I'm assuming that is readily changeable, how about a parts list in .pdf and maybe links to suppliers? again great job,

non issue adding/dosing three reservoirs?

don't know how I missed this until today!


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Jul 6, 2013)

Most of the parts including the controller was sourced through automation direct. The ph transmitter through Hanna instruments.

Because of the nature of industrial automation, and the means through which it was programmed, the system is 100% scalable, any number of reservoirs, and any number of lights... your imagination is truly the limit. Of course as the system is scaled so is the cost. Although as you add reservoirs and lights its minimal because the operator interface and primary controller already exist. In all reality the more reservoirs and lights controlled by the system, the more economical the system becomes. It can entirely eliminate human intervention for the most part. A grower goes from daily tasks of monitoring and tweaking the environment, to simply paying their entire attention to the plants.

Because of the sheer technological superiority of the dosing system. (most systems use brushed dc motors) it ended up coming in a little over 5k for the reservoir control, but it was worth the extra costs... i have sub milliliter accuracy, in adition to lab quality control of nutrient and additive ratios. The stepper drivers and stepper motors ate up some budget, but it was worth every penny for the peace of mind that steppers bring.



dochickory said:


> Boy! very nice job, do ya have a final on cost yet? 4k-5k?, I'm thinking frame 4 of your pics is the ph/ec sensors, and what is the controlled load range (in watts/amps) for lights? I'm assuming that is readily changeable, how about a parts list in .pdf and maybe links to suppliers? again great job,
> 
> non issue adding/dosing three reservoirs?
> 
> don't know how I missed this until today!


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## dochickory (Jul 8, 2013)

thanks, I just read what I wanted to read.........indeed, if I follow those links will they give me no.s and such amps/watts? I better go back and re-read.......the pictures showed up, my connection  over cell phone, thanks again info and quick reply

THC- tried to PM you, either dumb or not allowed.anyway very interested in THC, exactly what I would build if I could. Planning to apply my scale model to larger horticulture growing centers, and with your THC system and some other automated energy saving and producing technologies will only sustain and improve quality of life into the future. Anyway interested in buying/beta-testing/investing in a system somehow.any interest at your end? we could figure out how to e-mail, try to e-mail me, if you want, Thanks, I'll go away and see what you do,


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## dxco (Sep 3, 2013)

Way Cool! - What type of system do you use to prevent over-dosing? Or do you just inject solution so slow or diluted to let the pH/EC value change slowly enough to avoid over-shooting the set point? I was thinking a PID type system. 
Are the Automation Direct HMI's easy to program? 
I'd like to get the IP/login info to look around at your system if that is still an option (even if it were just a temp password for a few minutes).

There is this israeli company that builds (or licenses) these fully automated greenhouses- I've got the website saved but can't find it. I'll continue to look as I think you would find it interesting: They are doing like 30,000sq ft sites with one operator! DX


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## puppetstring (Sep 4, 2013)

wow! loving this project, the interface, the trends, everything done nice and neat in enclosures and the attention to detail. i like to tinker with things but no where near this level. i use a brick transformer plugged into my timed light circuit to power the coil on a relay which switches between day/night speed controllers for my exhaust. i dream of one day having a system like this, everything integrated and automated and accessible from anywhere! + rep and subbed for this one!


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## crazed1011 (Sep 4, 2013)

I have just creamed my pants. being an electrician I was definitely thinking of doing a system with a plc to control everything.. quite expensive though


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## Stryp (Sep 5, 2013)

Total.Hydroponic.Control said:


> Because of the nature of industrial automation, and the means through which it was programmed, the system is 100% scalable, any number of reservoirs, and any number of lights... your imagination is truly the limit. Of course as the system is scaled so is the cost. Although as you add reservoirs and lights its minimal because the operator interface and primary controller already exist. In all reality the more reservoirs and lights controlled by the system, the more economical the system becomes. It can entirely eliminate human intervention for the most part. A grower goes from daily tasks of monitoring and tweaking the environment, to simply paying their entire attention to the plants.
> 
> Because of the sheer technological superiority of the dosing system. (most systems use brushed dc motors) it ended up coming in a little over 5k for the reservoir control, but it was worth the extra costs... i have sub milliliter accuracy, in adition to lab quality control of nutrient and additive ratios. The stepper drivers and stepper motors ate up some budget, but it was worth every penny for the peace of mind that steppers bring.


Breathtaking! Top grade parts, ability to scale with sub-milliliter accuracy, just amazing. Can't wait to see this in action.
This just blew any automation ideas I had out of the water.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Oct 10, 2014)

Well, the last update was over a year ago. The brain has been upgraded to a do-more processor, and I've distributed the system as previously described, only this time the distribution is happening via ethernet remote IO. It's still an automation direct product, it just allows me to space the modules up to 300 meters away from each other. The power module can be installed near your loads, the dosing controller near the reservoir, and the control panel in a convenient location for a process overview. The system is 95 percent complete, and will be going through the beginning test stages. It's already been running idly for about six months, with no issues. Now it's almost time to let it grow something. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Rollitup mobile app


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Oct 10, 2014)

Here is a picture of the Dosing Module. You will notice this system has been designed around six peristaltic pumps. Pumps one and two handle PH control, and the remaining four handle nutrients or additives. I've also included two screenshots from the operator panel. The first screen from the operator panel shows manual pump control. The second screen shows the nutrient recipe page. I spent an entire month developing the dosing features.



This screen is for manual control, there are three main types of manual dosing functions... a jog function, in which you simply specify the speed, (1% to 100%) and then as long as you press the jog button the dosing pump jogs at that speed. The second mode is timed mode, in this mode, the selected pump will jog at your set speed, for a set time, at the end of that set time the pump will automatically stop. The third manual dosing function is based on volume. You can specify between 1, and 1000 milliliters. After the pump has dispensed the specified volume is stops automatically.

Finally there is a coordinate mode, which uses your recipe to develop two more manual funcitons, a jog mode, which will dispense your recipe at your requested speed using all 4 nutrient pumps running at you nutrient ratio, as long as you hold the jog button, and then a timed mode, which also dispenses at the nutrient recipe ratios for your specified time.

Each pump can be individually calibrated in terms of steps per milliliter.

Note that none of the functions I've described have anything to do with the controllers ability to automatically control the EC of your reservoir, the functions i just described pertain to the manual control of pumps, and for one time dosing by the user, if they would rather dose the reservoir themselves, while still maintaining the recipe ratios, or if the grower decides they would like to add more of a single nutrient part.


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## ASMALLVOICE (Oct 10, 2014)

That is finer than a new set of snow tires 
I have my grow room automated as far as environmental controls and feeding cycles. I have all points trended and setup to deliver alarms to the pc. I would love to get my hands on a setup like this for creating and/or maintaining a res. Do you use the PID Recipe Mode for Ph control?. I can see dispensing fixed amounts of nutrients based on the res size, just curious how accurate the ph function is ( +/- ?%).

Once that is in place, all that is left is physical plant management ( lst, topping, cloning and the likes) and a normal cleaning regimen, I like the sound of that..lol

Many thanx for the share and look forward to more. 

Peace and Automated Grows

Asmallvoice


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Oct 10, 2014)

ASMALLVOICE said:


> That is finer than a new set of snow tires
> I have my grow room automated as far as environmental controls and feeding cycles. I have all points trended and setup to deliver alarms to the pc. I would love to get my hands on a setup like this for creating and/or maintaining a res. Do you use the PID Recipe Mode for Ph control?. I can see dispensing fixed amounts of nutrients based on the res size, just curious how accurate the ph function is ( +/- ?%).
> 
> Once that is in place, all that is left is physical plant management ( lst, topping, cloning and the likes) and a normal cleaning regimen, I like the sound of that..lol
> ...



The PH dosing pumps have the same manual control Screen. This is because at any given time an operator should be able to control a pump manually to inspect its function. Beyond this, yes, the PH is controlled up and down via a PID function, and automatically adjusted. The accuracy of the automatic dosing is essentially a function of the deadband, which is also set by the user. If you'd like to hold a PH of 5.8, and you set the dead band to .2 ph, your PH will be allowed to swing between 5.6 and 6.0 ph, or .2 ph on either side of the setpoint. However, if you set the deadband to .1 ph, now the controller will automatically control the PH to a value between 5.7 and 5.9 for a setpoint of 5.8. 

The goal of the controller at this point is to be cable of maintaining a .05 ph deadband, or a range of 5.75 to 5.85 for a setpoint of 5.8.

The testing phase of the controller will really prove out the capabilities.


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## ASMALLVOICE (Oct 10, 2014)

Total.Hydroponic.Control said:


> The PH dosing pumps have the same manual control Screen. This is because at any given time an operator should be able to control a pump manually to inspect its function. Beyond this, yes, the PH is controlled up and down via a PID function, and automatically adjusted. The accuracy of the automatic dosing is essentially a function of the deadband, which is also set by the user. If you'd like to hold a PH of 5.8, and you set the dead band to .2 ph, your PH will be allowed to swing between 5.6 and 6.0 ph, or .2 ph on either side of the setpoint. However, if you set the deadband to .1 ph, now the controller will automatically control the PH to a value between 5.7 and 5.9 for a setpoint of 5.8.
> 
> The goal of the controller at this point is to be cable of maintaining a .05 ph deadband, or a range of 5.75 to 5.85 for a setpoint of 5.8.
> 
> The testing phase of the controller will really prove out the capabilities.


Too Kewl. Many thanx for the reply.

Looking forward to seeing it in action.

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice


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## GrowerGoneWild (Oct 10, 2014)

Awesome thread... A real deal PLC, very professional.


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## Hot Diggity Sog (Oct 10, 2014)

This is very interesting...Will be following.


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## yktind (Oct 10, 2014)

Pulling up a chair


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## ttystikk (Oct 12, 2014)

My op is ready/overdue for this kind of automation.

I'm very interested in what it would take for me to follow in your footsteps here.

Are the logic programs modular? Is it possible to add functions later without having to redo everything every time?

I need:
Res control; pH, nutrient strength, programmable ratios, automated dump and fill

Environmental control; temp, RH, CO², lighting strength and duration

HVAC control; switch chillers, using compressorless chiller when appropriate, overturns, venting, heat and cod management throughout the facility

Integrated controls; multiple rooms, day/night, power management scheduling, programs that fully automated a rooms progression from veg through the stages of bloom, coordinating environmental and nutrient functions into one master program to control a given room for its entire cycle.

Did I say overdue?


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## SnapsProvolone (Oct 13, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> My op is ready/overdue for this kind of automation.
> 
> I'm very interested in what it would take for me to follow in your footsteps here.
> 
> ...


Call my company. We can provide tailored solutions.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Oct 13, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> My op is ready/overdue for this kind of automation.
> 
> I'm very interested in what it would take for me to follow in your footsteps here.
> 
> ...



PLC's are inherently scale-able. Its why you'll find PLC's in every factory in the world. Following in my footsteps would be difficult, unless your familiar with electronics and have a fundamental understanding of electrical theory. The ruggedness and reliability of industrial PLC's and sensors is the real showcase. I'm designing the entire system around dependability. This project would be difficult to duplicate for the average grower. I didn't necessarily start playing with the concept as a tutorial. I have an intense interest in automation, electronics, and technology in general, this project was meant to showcase the real potential of technology, and how it will help growers in the present and future. It looks like others with similar knowledge offer their services here. I do not currently have any intentions of making this controller available for purchase, however this is not to say that in the future it would be out of the question. For now, my only goal is to explore the potential of a fully automated grow room, test delivery and control methods in order to determine best practices, and to move towards an ever more efficient use of resources.

For those with electronics backgrounds, much of what I've shown here can be easily duplicated. For those with little to no electronics/electrical background, I would always advise seeking out a solution more readily available.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Oct 13, 2014)

Total.Hydroponic.Control said:


> For those with electronics backgrounds, much of what I've shown here can be easily duplicated. For those with little to no electronics/electrical background, I would always advise seeking out a solution more readily available.


Would you mind posting the ladder logic for the PLC?... I'm not an automation pro like you.. i just kinda tinker, it would be helpful.


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## ttystikk (Oct 14, 2014)

Total.Hydroponic.Control said:


> PLC's are inherently scale-able. Its why you'll find PLC's in every factory in the world. Following in my footsteps would be difficult, unless your familiar with electronics and have a fundamental understanding of electrical theory. The ruggedness and reliability of industrial PLC's and sensors is the real showcase. I'm designing the entire system around dependability. This project would be difficult to duplicate for the average grower. I didn't necessarily start playing with the concept as a tutorial. I have an intense interest in automation, electronics, and technology in general, this project was meant to showcase the real potential of technology, and how it will help growers in the present and future. It looks like others with similar knowledge offer their services here. I do not currently have any intentions of making this controller available for purchase, however this is not to say that in the future it would be out of the question. For now, my only goal is to explore the potential of a fully automated grow room, test delivery and control methods in order to determine best practices, and to move towards an ever more efficient use of resources.
> 
> For those with electronics backgrounds, much of what I've shown here can be easily duplicated. For those with little to no electronics/electrical background, I would always advise seeking out a solution more readily available.


Gotta love the smug 'it's too complicated for you, stoner' answer.

I'm ready for PLC level automation in my person and if you won't help, I'll find someone who will.

Our goals of maximizing efficiencies in indoor growing are similar. I'm sorry your attitude won't allow us to work together.


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## ttystikk (Oct 14, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Call my company. We can provide tailored solutions.


If I were an end user/operator only, I'd be on the phone right now. No reservations!

Since I'm the lead engineer on my own project and need to be able to fully integrate it, I need to learn how to use and program PLC technology myself instead of having to pay someone every time I want to change the temperature.

Those who help me with my goals have found their assistance to be well rewarded.


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## SnapsProvolone (Oct 14, 2014)

We don't dump something in a clients lap without providing a complete overview of how it all works and continued phone support is included for a year.


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## ttystikk (Oct 14, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> We don't dump something in a clients lap without providing a complete overview of how it all works and continued phone support is included for a year.


Again, that's ideal from an end user standpoint. I need to know the dirty details. Maybe we could work something out. What brand PLC do you use?


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## SnapsProvolone (Oct 14, 2014)

Allen Bradley


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## SnapsProvolone (Oct 14, 2014)

http://www.plcdev.com/allen_bradleys_plc_programming_handbook

Frankly I'm not the best teacher... or so I've been told.


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Oct 14, 2014)

SnapsProvolone said:


> Allen Bradley


Unless your grow room includes integrated motion Allen Bradley is an expensive platform. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Rollitup mobile app


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## Total.Hydroponic.Control (Oct 14, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> Gotta love the smug 'it's too complicated for you, stoner' answer.
> 
> I'm ready for PLC level automation in my person and if you won't help, I'll find someone who will.
> 
> Our goals of maximizing efficiencies in indoor growing are similar. I'm sorry your attitude won't allow us to work together.



I'm sorry if you feel that I'm coming off as smug. I'm simply stating facts. Whether or not you smoke pot, or drop acid has nothing to do with your capacity to understand PLC's. If the subject truly fascinates you, and you feel you have time to develop your skills, I would highly suggest starting out with a very basic plc, and starting with realistic goals for yourself. Automation direct provides the CLICK plc line. The CLICK plc is a great place to start, and the best part is that the programming software is free. Perhaps I should start a new project, with some easy examples for anyone who is interested enough to sit down and learn electronics.

Another great option, believe it or not, is allen bradley's new Micro 800 series controllers. These controllers are also configured with free software.

Again, I am sincerely sorry if my response made you feel I thought you were less than capable of undertaking such a task. Truly anyone with the desire, and drive could over time, and practice learn to use PLC's much in the same fashion I am here with this project.


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## GrowerGoneWild (Oct 14, 2014)

Total.Hydroponic.Control said:


> I'm sorry if you feel that I'm coming off as smug. I'm simply stating facts. Whether or not you smoke pot, or drop acid has nothing to do with your capacity to understand PLC's. If the subject truly fascinates you, and you feel you have time to develop your skills, I would highly suggest starting out with a very basic plc, and starting with realistic goals for yourself. Automation direct provides the CLICK plc line. The CLICK plc is a great place to start, and the best part is that the programming software is free. Perhaps I should start a new project, with some easy examples for anyone who is interested enough to sit down and learn electronics.


Id be interested in learning, I've already done a few projects with an Allen Bradley Nano PLC in ladder logic.

I'll have to check out the CLICK plc line, thank you for pointing us in the right direction.


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## ttystikk (Oct 15, 2014)

I like.

This area of the industry has already seen a lot of innovation and I suspect more is coming; I fully expect a PLC style system designed with indoor gardening as its primary application to hit the market within the next few years. Some good examples of integrated control systems are already becoming available, and their capabilities surely increase, just as the price falls over time.


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## High Power (Feb 27, 2015)

SIEMENS Logo or Simatic are good choices for PLCs.


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## bluto392 (Feb 28, 2015)

Have you considered an automated reservoir cleaning system? Might seem silly for a small grow, but I imagine for large scale ops it would desirable.


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## High Power (May 17, 2015)

I built an automated reservoir cleaner. Used a 2HP pump and 4 oscillating ratcheting sprinkler heads attached 6" apart on a column from the top of the pump. The unit was dropped through the top of a 250G square reservoir. About 4" to 6" of water and cleansing solution was put int the bottom. When the pump was turned on, the 4 sprinklers blasted the sides with so much force we couldn't leave the res room door open. Took less than 10 minutes to give the res an through cleaning. Don't have any pics, but a visit to a Home Depot or similar store can get you everything you need to build.


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## og_sandman (Mar 28, 2019)

So how is the system currently? i am sure it has already been implemented. What a beautiful project. Would love to see the ladder logic. considering building one myself or at least making a smaller version that only does certain tasks... 

Thank you for sharing.


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## ttystikk (Apr 22, 2019)

Total.Hydroponic.Control said:


> I am well versed with Wonderware software. You are correct on many accounts. Wonderware is incredibly powerful, flexible software. Unfortunately WonderWares greatest pitfall is its price. Wonderware licenses require yearly renewall. Development licenses start at 1500 dollars a year, and runtime licenses run around 800 dollars. Thats a YEARLY fee that must be paid for continued support. In 10 years it will cost you well over 15 grand to run a single Wonderware application if you also own a development license. The development license is what allows you to create programs.
> 
> Regarding Ladder logic. The Automation direct DL06 PLC which I'm using as the controller, is programmed entirely in Ladder Logic. I can also program PLC's in Function Block, and Structured text. But the DL06 is only capable of Ladder.
> 
> ...


I think I just came in my pants.


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## ttystikk (Apr 22, 2019)

Total.Hydroponic.Control said:


> PLC's are inherently scale-able. Its why you'll find PLC's in every factory in the world. Following in my footsteps would be difficult, unless your familiar with electronics and have a fundamental understanding of electrical theory. The ruggedness and reliability of industrial PLC's and sensors is the real showcase. I'm designing the entire system around dependability. This project would be difficult to duplicate for the average grower. I didn't necessarily start playing with the concept as a tutorial. I have an intense interest in automation, electronics, and technology in general, this project was meant to showcase the real potential of technology, and how it will help growers in the present and future. It looks like others with similar knowledge offer their services here. I do not currently have any intentions of making this controller available for purchase, however this is not to say that in the future it would be out of the question. For now, my only goal is to explore the potential of a fully automated grow room, test delivery and control methods in order to determine best practices, and to move towards an ever more efficient use of resources.
> 
> For those with electronics backgrounds, much of what I've shown here can be easily duplicated. For those with little to no electronics/electrical background, I would always advise seeking out a solution more readily available.


I'm guessing you're not around anymore, it's been 5 years since you signed in. Too bad, I need someone with your expertise and I'm willing to pay top dollar for it.


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## Timezone (Apr 28, 2019)

ttystikk said:


> I'm guessing you're not around anymore, it's been 5 years since you signed in. Too bad, I need someone with your expertise and I'm willing to pay top dollar for it.


I have been looking forward to an update also...

What are you looking for ttystikk if I may ask?


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## ttystikk (Apr 30, 2019)

Timezone said:


> I have been looking forward to an update also...
> 
> What are you looking for ttystikk if I may ask?


I need someone with experience in PLC and industrial controls to discuss my start-up with.


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## Timezone (Apr 30, 2019)

Overcomplicatotron might be able to help you. Here's his post:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/offering-electrical-control-circuit-programming-help.987753/
Good luck with your project.


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## BuyLowGetHigh (Jul 23, 2021)

ttystikk said:


> I need someone with experience in PLC and industrial controls to discuss my start-up with.


I am in the beginning phases of creating my own custom controller for a few of my grow rooms, we may be able to collaborate after I tighten everything up. I am a facilities/industrial engineer with a decent amount of controls experience in the field as well as design & layout. If all goes as planned, I will be able to configure the exact system for other users at different scales of course. Stay in contact!


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## ttystikk (Jul 28, 2021)

BuyLowGetHigh said:


> I am in the beginning phases of creating my own custom controller for a few of my grow rooms, we may be able to collaborate after I tighten everything up. I am a facilities/industrial engineer with a decent amount of controls experience in the field as well as design & layout. If all goes as planned, I will be able to configure the exact system for other users at different scales of course. Stay in contact!


This sounds like exactly the kind of project I've been looking for. Please do stay in touch!

PM me for my email address; you won't be able to private message until you've made some 30-50 posts and gotten some "likes" as it's his to site keeps spammers at bay.


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