# Waterfarm Closet Grow [PICS]



## Shackleford.R (Apr 28, 2009)

Hello and welcome to my grow journal.

I debated starting a grow journal and put it off for a good while. So to catch you up to speed...

I had picked up a germination tray for my outdoor vegetable garden months ago, and it actually arrived post planting time for my area, so it was more or less a waste. Out of interest, don't all grows start this way?, I decided to germ some bag seeds. I gathered up 10 seeds from my stash box and dotted them into the germ kit. Wouldn't you know it, 3 sprouts, before the tomatoes, before the peppers, before the squash... All told I ended up with 5 good sprouts. 

Once the first true leaves poked up their little heads I moved them all to a modded AeroGarden. By modded I mean, I didn't expect to anything to sprout, so I didn't have the stupid little AG cages you snap in the top tray. Instead I removed the tray, filled with a mix of 60% Hydrotron expanded clay pebbles and 40% Miracle-Gro potting soil. I disconnected the lamp hood wire from the base power adapter, and picked up a lamp wire from Radio Shack and plugged it into an independent timer. 

Before any gets on me for doing this to a fairly decent prebuilt aeroponic system. Understand that it was an act of desperation, and not planned intention. I needed to transplant to something, and I knew I needed light, that bastard system was the child of my necessity.

Moving right along... After about a week in the ghetto AG, I added some more lights, CFL's ranging in wattage... Then a few fan leaves later we find ourselves here...







A little closer up view under my "hood"...







So the system is running nicely now, after a possible nute burn I flushed the system with distilled water, and filled the tank with straight pH proper Spring Water. I'm about to be out of town for a few days, so I plan on leaving the system like this till I return. Anyone know anything about spring water? Does it bring anything to the party? I assume some trace minerals, basically I'm just trying to wash the roots, and get them a little stronger before I return the nute barrage.

Also I picked up some maxicrop liquid seaweed today. I plan to fortify the spring water with this, I hear its awesome for root development which is what my main concern is now.

Here are some photos of the leaf damage...







and a little closer...








Also, I have all 5 plants in the same water farm. I'm hoping for at least 3 females out of the bunch. Once sexed, I plan on doing some LST to maximize the yield of the (hopeful) 3 plants in the one WaterFarm unit.

I'm on a 18/6 light cycle and watering every other hour during the light cycle, pump on one hour, pump off one hour, repeat...

Any questions or comments are more than welcome.
Keep checking back as I plan to update fairly regularly.

Good day, and happy growing!


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## Little Tommy (Apr 28, 2009)

I do not see any photos......


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## Shackleford.R (Apr 28, 2009)

So here are the pictures...


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## Shackleford.R (Apr 29, 2009)

So after two days of straight pH spring water, all new growth is coming in healthy and green. I leave today for a few days, and feel confident that running pure water, no nutes for the next few days is will remedy most of the plants issues, and my concerns about nute burn.

I'm also beginning to consider the possibility that was some heat and under watering abuse. My pump timer seemed to have kicked off for a couple days before the fresh res of spring water.

Solution:
I purchased a new timer. This time avoided the digital and went for mechanical, it seems to work like a charm. Additionally, I have been feeding the leaves with a fine mist spray of fresh water, and trace amounts of worm casting tea.

Fingers crossed, I'll return home to healthy plants.


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## Shackleford.R (Apr 30, 2009)

So I've noticed a number of views, but no helpful hints...

+rep for any advice about the plants, diagnosis, etc... kiss-ass

I'm pretty sure it was just heat damage. I'm still out of town and returning home tomorrow hopefully my kids will be feeling healthy!

Wish I could burn one here... maybe I will???


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## Prot3us1 (May 1, 2009)

Nice! Your grow box is awesome. I wish i could get mylar here.

I think most people go with less than 50/50 water pump timing...Mostly i hear of 15 on 45 off...but don't go by that, i personally haven't tried a proper hydro setup yet.

Do you have an air pump in your res? and do you have an oscillating fan blowing gently on them to build stem strength?

+rep for a clean room build!


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## Shackleford.R (May 1, 2009)

HOORAY!!!

I just got home about an hour ago, and of course the first thing I checked was my kids/girls (fingers crossed). Turns out, it was the damn timer that screwed things up. The plants took on damage from not being watered for a couple days. The new timer works like a charm. I walked in and the pump was running actually. 

All five have not only recovered, but EXPLODED with new growth. I didn't take an exact count yet, but I think I recall some 5 leaf sets AND 7 leaf sets. I guess I'll get going with the nutes tomorrow. Its almost as if they were asking me to add the nutes when I walked in tonight. 

I have some pictures I plan to post shortly. But for now, I've got soup on the stove that needs some attention.


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## Shackleford.R (May 1, 2009)

Sooooo here are the photos. Aren't they lovely???


They were bagseeds, so I have no clue about the strain. But now that the leaves are coming in I'm wondering if it's too soon to guess the strain?


Anyone know how to post the photos within the post?


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## dopewear (May 1, 2009)

shakle those are sexy plants i may turn to you for hydro advice come my next grow(itll be in a cabinet). +rep for the closet set up i wish i could do one.


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## Shackleford.R (May 2, 2009)

Today is the day that my kids are going back on a healthy diet of liquid nutrients.

I have the Flora Series that came with the water farm, and I have yet to read anything bad about them. I also picked up the Flora Nova 2 part system, grow and bloom from the hydro shop. Also lying around is Dyna-Gro Pro Tekt which is a silicon solution to strengthen the cell walls, which leads to stronger stems and hardier leaves. Finally, I have maxicrop Liquid Seaweed.

Here is the breakdown for each piece...

1-Flora Series

-FloraGrow 2% Nitrogen / 1% Phosphate / 6% Potash / 0.5% Magnesium

-FloraMicro 5% Nitrogen / 1% Potash / 5% Calcium / 0.0005% Cobalt 
0.1% Iron / .05% Manganese / 0.0008% Molybdenum

-FloraBloom 5% Phosphate / 4% Potash / 1.5% Magnesium / 1% Sulfur

2-Flora Nova

-Grow 7% Nitrogen / 4% Phosphate / 10% Potash / 4% Calcium 
1.5% Magnesium / 2% Sulfur / 0.01% Boron / 0.01% Chlorine 
0.002% Cobalt / 0.01% Copper / 0.1% Iron / 0.03% Manganese
0.003% Molybdenum / 0.02% Zinc

-Bloom 4% Nitrogen / 8% Phosphate / 7% Potash / 4% Calcium
2% Magnesium / 2% Sulfur / 0.1% Iron

3-Maxicrop Liquid Seaweed 1% Potash / 1% Chlorine

4-Dyna-Gro Pro-Tekt 3% Potash / 7.8% Silicon

Also, here is an excerpt from a product website with more information about the maxicrop 
" Maxicrop Kelp contains over 70 minerals, micronutrients, amino acids and vitamins. Also contains growth regulators which stimulate vigorous root development and plant growth. "

So that is in a nutshell the general breakdown of what I have on hand. I had planned on going with the Flora Series, at the average growth strength recommended. Then, fortifying it with the liquid seaweed for root development, and the pro-tekt to make the leaves hardier, and strengthen the stems. The way I figure, better roots = more nutes for the plant, and stronger stems = able to hold larger buds.

If anyone has any suggestions, or knows of an "awesome" nute blend/recipe, please feel free to share. I'm open to suggestions, in mL/gal preferably. kiss-ass


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## bakedat420 (May 2, 2009)

to post pics in a post you gotta use like photobucket or somethin then just copy paste the {img} code in your new post


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## Shackleford.R (May 2, 2009)

Thanks baked.

But if thats the case, i think i'll enjoy the attached thumbnails a little more. don't need to be spreading my grow all over the internet. 

On with the nute chat...

so i mixed up a killer batch, flora series, silicon, and the seaweed. only to not be able to pH the damn solution in the end. the seaweed colored the water too heavily for me to read clearly what color it was. so after tossing an awesome batch out on my lawn (curious to see if it does anything crazy, i have dead bare spot...) i started anew... and here is the blend.

2 Gallons Distilled Water
25 mL Flora Grow
15 mL Flora Micro
5 mL Flora Bloom
1 tsp Dyna Gro Silicon

Will update in a day or so, once the roots have a chance to take a drink


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## Shackleford.R (May 3, 2009)

...alright so this wasn't really THAT urgent.

Just a quick update, the plants are LOVING the nute recipe for sure. Most of my shorties have shown new growth already since the res change just yesterday morning.  ( i know i overuse that, but he's awesome )

What I'm trying to figure out now is what I should grow for. 

Height OR Width????

A quick rundown of my situation..

The total grow area I have to work with is 2' x 2 1/2' x 5'

I plan on keeping whatever females I have in the single Water Farm unit, and I am not flexible about this. Its for personal use, I have no intention of keeping a mother and cloning. Possibly keeping one plant in the end that I may re-veg for a second harvest.

So with that said should I....

1- allow them to grow up, up and away, and hope for a few fat colas?

2- LST all 5 plants now and allow for a little more circulation between them, and more bud sites?

3- top them now and hope for double the colas?

I'm a total noob and looking for feedback and input from others that have been growing a little longer than me.

++rep for any help/posts kiss-ass
(i plan on posting photos later on after my camera is charged if photo references can help)


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## Prot3us1 (May 3, 2009)

Hey man, sounds like you have the right set of nutes pretty much set up now  thats awesome, make sure you keep a note of the recipe so this time next grow you can use the same mix.

If i was you i would go with LST or Scrog. I am definitely gonna LST my plants. The best thing about lst is if you do it carefully you wont stunt your plants. Im not sure what would give you the most weight, but lst will let you use the most space.

Either way, looking forward to the pics!!!


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## GypsyBush (May 3, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> ...alright so this wasn't really THAT urgent.
> 
> Just a quick update, the plants are LOVING the nute recipe for sure. Most of my shorties have shown new growth already since the res change just yesterday morning.  ( i know i overuse that, but he's awesome )
> 
> ...


I would flower them small and grow them as lollipops...

Here is an example of 12/12 from seed on an ebb/flow set up... bottom third and anything that grew more than 1" was snipped off, as per Al B. Fuct's SOG lollipop trimming...

If I remember right it dried and cured @ 20g...

Oh and Nice grow! +rep

Cheers!


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## bakedat420 (May 3, 2009)

as far as height or width...why not try both...thats what i did since it was my first time growing i wanted to try all the different methods and see which one suits me and my grow rooms...thats what i suggest jus tryin different things and see what happens


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## Shackleford.R (May 3, 2009)

thanks for the rep gypsy. i was considering growing them short and taking a "lollipop approach. i saw a pc case grow where that idea was in mind. looked like he pulled off a pretty fat cola for it. i'm shooting for a max yield in a small space, i have only 5 bagseeds of truly unknown origin, possibly each from different bags, that i held onto over the years. i'm also really interested in scrog too...

i'm an indecisive one if you couldnt tell.

also if you notice from the first images the water farm is on a stand, that i plan to take out from under it, once the height is maxxed out, then the plan was to go straight into flower from that point, with about 1 - 1 1/2 feet of vertical growth. 

basically what i need to clear up, is how much veg/leaf growth do i NEED/HAVE to have for a robust flowering cycle??
if i need a few branches and about a foot of growth, then i'd start flowering in a couple weeks, i'm just worried about jumping the gun, and not reaching the full potential of the plant. but i guess thats the game you play when you grow bagseed...


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## GypsyBush (May 3, 2009)

Just keep in mind that they will keep growing for a while when you switch to 12/12...

Some Sativas may triple in size during flowering...

Plan ahead so you don't find yourself out of room...

And as to when to flower... height concerns apart, the plant will show pre-flowers when it has reached sexual maturity...

Any sooner and there is some stress involved... which some may scream "HERMIES", but I've never had one from that...


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## Shackleford.R (May 3, 2009)

awesome! that was my other concern, when do they show signs of sex...
i couldn't figure out if that didn't start to show until the 12/12 switch, or if you see it before that, and it just becomes more visible post 12/12 switch.

so then for sure i will see signs of sex before i switch the light schedule to 12/12


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## GypsyBush (May 3, 2009)

You could keep topping them and throw a screen over it...

Veg for a long time and then flower...

Scrog set-ups are really good if you do not mind the long veg and the work involved...

Probably your best bet, from the sound of it...


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## Hulk Nugs (May 3, 2009)

right on man i am looking but that be nice to have a waterfarm crew going hahaha or a club on here........i have two working nice for me just stoped dripping thoe so not sure whats up with that anyways......are you going to keep all 4 in that one farm ??


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## Shackleford.R (May 3, 2009)

ha ha what?! sorry hulk i'm having a little bit of trouble deciphering the first part of your post.
i'm going to take it as a compliment and assume, you were saying my setup looks nice. but to answer your question, yeah i plan to keep them all in the same farm and actually there are 5 little kids in there. one of them is a bit of a straggler. the plan is to go for max yield from a single water farm. i know most people separate plants into individual pots and have impressive yields, but i've always thought i march to the beat of my own drum and i intend to keep up that tradition. granted i won't the same overall size plant as most, but i think i will be able to pull off a respectable yield given some clever gardening know how. 

also about your waterfarm not dripping, it could be salt build up, i've read a lot of posts where the tube going down into the res essentially just cakes over with salt build up, its easy to clean i hear just running it under water and rubbing with your fingers will break it up. also GH makes a product "Flora Kleen" its used for flushing but is safe throughout your grow, it basically helps breakdown salt build up. might help, and might not.

i'm down for an online waterfarm grow op. start the thread i will gladly subscribe, and post my shiz on that...

ps pics coming soon


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## Shackleford.R (May 3, 2009)

As promised here are some new photos.. (i love grow porn as much as anybody else  [that guy is just awesome] )

*Pic 1* If you notice in the front corner, thats my straggler, it's about 3 inches tall, its being shaded a good bit by its bigger siblings, which makes me think some small amount of LST is due, just to open up a canopy 
(also notice i added the big overhead light, it also has a y-socket adapter. each lamp is 2 X 23W (100W equivalent) CFL Daylight spectrum, making for a total of 10 CFL bulbs, roughly making up about 230W of lighting goodness)

*Pic 2* An awesome overhead view of the garden. You can see really clearly here that the big bitch in the bottom right REALLY covers up her little buddy in the back corner of the garden

*Pic 3* This is my giant! About 6 inches tall now, and overshadowing its smaller siblings

*Pic 4* A horizontal front view of the garden from inside the grow closet, a little shady, but you get the idea

(i should use the female "her" and "she" more often than the indefinite "sibling" maybe it will increase my female to male ratio? more on that later)

so overall they range from about 3 1/2 inches to about 6 1/2 inches. the big girl with MASSIVE leaves. any guesses whether these are indica or sativa strains???

also i've decided to open up a naming contest. that overhead shot is uploaded to my photo album. take a look at it, and name the kids for me... i'm having trouble keeping track of them all, and i'm no good at naming them. ALL lady names please... like i said, trying to up the female-to-male ratio through mental jedi mind tricks. maybe it will work??


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## Hulk Nugs (May 3, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> ha ha what?! sorry hulk i'm having a little bit of trouble deciphering the first part of your post.
> i'm going to take it as a compliment and assume, you were saying my setup looks nice.


 
lmao dam sorry man must have taken a really good hit right before i typed that up. yea just saying your grow was looking good looking forward to seeing what happens with the plant setup like that i will be watching


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## Shackleford.R (May 3, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> As promised here are some new photos.. (i love grow porn as much as anybody else  [that guy is just awesome] )
> 
> *Pic 1* If you notice in the front corner, thats my straggler, it's about 3 inches tall, its being shaded a good bit by its bigger siblings, which makes me think some small amount of LST is due, just to open up a canopy
> (also notice i added the big overhead light, it also has a y-socket adapter. each lamp is 2 X 23W (100W equivalent) CFL Daylight spectrum, making for a total of 10 CFL bulbs, roughly making up about 230W of lighting goodness)


Alright, I've made my decision, going to figure out a method of LST tomorrow. I plan to lean each plant towards the edge of the water farm, in hopes of allowing more light to penetrate down through the plants, towards the center of the drip ring... if that makes sense?  I think it does.

From that, going to veg for a few more weeks, then do a little topping. Ultimate result being a screen of green. Thats right, I started out wanting a pretty, tall cannabis plant. Now I've decided to spread the ladies and let the buds shoot where they may... 

If you look below at the picture you'll see the plants are already starting to crowd, so I think the LST combined with the ScrOG will be enough to compensate, and still allow me to use the single water farm unit. 

I need a bowl, I'm not clever when I'm straight.

 and keep


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## dopewear (May 3, 2009)

hey shackle you wanted LST info click HERE for it...


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## Shackleford.R (May 4, 2009)

dopewear, you rocked my sock with that LST thread. Had everything I needed to know.

On a different note, my landlord is sending a guy out today, to check out my mice in my attic, I'm planning on disconnecting the lights and pump, so he doesn't hear anything suspicious while checking shit out today. Think that will affect my plants to have a shorter light cycle than usual?


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## dopewear (May 4, 2009)

iv read you can get away with like an hour of unscheduled light or no light but a hole day i dont know and glad you enjoyed that thread. DW


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## blueberry1 (May 4, 2009)

how old are they from seed??

 They will show signs of flowering before 12/12. Nobody has yet to tell me why since I dont think light is getting into my room.

Normally Veg time is about 7-10 weeks for most seeds. I started mine about 6 weeks ago and 3 are showing signs of sex (perhaps bc they are growing fast in Hydro, not sure why so early)....see below. I have NOT switched out my HPS or to 12/12 yet. I also don't know why they are pre-flowering but they are wanting to flower.....the others have to catch up another week before I can start!!!!! I hear that if you use a Metal Hallide, the plants just go NUTS 

Do u have any signs of problems?
~blue


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## GypsyBush (May 4, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> dopewear, you rocked my sock with that LST thread. Had everything I needed to know.
> 
> On a different note, my landlord is sending a guy out today, to check out my mice in my attic, I'm planning on disconnecting the lights and pump, so he doesn't hear anything suspicious while checking shit out today. Think that will affect my plants to have a shorter light cycle than usual?


Try to avoid it, obviously, but they will be ok....

No worries... just get back to your schedule as soon as you can...


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## Shackleford.R (May 4, 2009)

well look who decided to drop in!! 

thanks for the look see blue. they were started from seed just under 3 1/2 - 4 weeks ago. I'm a bad parent, I dont really keep track of how old they are, I take it as it comes. as far important things to remember, last time the res was flushed, etc. i keep track of that week by week. if it was doing a large scale production, i'd probably keep track better. BUT, its just one hydro drip bucket in my closet, so i'm too stressed about it. 

long story short, about a month old. i'm thinking sometime towards the end of this week, i'm going to top and LST all 5 of my babies. my concern is about the ground tie. tying the plant down to the medium or pot, so that the LST of the other ties doesnt uproot. i'm growing in hydrotron, the expanded clay, and i dont really know how i should stake down the bas of the plant...

thoughts anyone???


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## Shackleford.R (May 4, 2009)

thanks d-dub and gypsy.. i got lucky, the pest control dudes went straight into the attic, laid traps/poison, did their thing and were gone in about 45 minutes... i expected them to check the rooms, but whatever, they're in the attic not my grow closet... if they were in there, they would face the wrath of shackleford... not the pest control


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## Shackleford.R (May 4, 2009)

I decided, put up or shut up... I got scissor crazy just moments ago... 

Not exactly crazy, but I did give two of my kids a haircut. My two largest plants were both topped around the 4th node (the new growth i trimmed would have grown into a 5th node) as per Growmans advise, i went ahead and also began some stress training. All 5 plants have been gently tied down to the drip ring. Evening out the canopy at around 5 inches. I haven't gotten into leaf trimming yet, i'm going to give that till the weekend for some good leafy growth to develop. Once its good and bushy i plan to trim out the "undergrowth" on the side not upward facing to the lighting rig (which is a sight to see by the way) 

So far this looks like the best decision i could have made, given that i'm growing under CFL and have no intention of upgrading my lighting rig to any type of HID lighting for flowering. I feel an even canopy with a scrog under warm CFL will give me the best possible harvest down the road. 

Its interesting to me, i started this grow thinking i was going to have 2-3 foot tall beauties, then they started to grow and the whole concept of a tall, upwardly mobile plant seemed odd. I think this shrubby scrog is the best way to grow for my setup. (not too mention i sorta freaked when i realized "IM GROWING POT IN MY CLOSET!!!"  "WHAT DO I DO?!?!?!" )

Hold onto your butts, and dont get your underbritches in a knot, i'll be posting the LST photos tomorrow probably once they've had an opportunity to respond and take to the training. For now, a reference photo, to give you and idea of what i topped. (Topped plants indicated by a red circle)

 and keep


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## blueberry1 (May 4, 2009)

looks gooooooooooood!!!!!!!!!!!!! nice job and hope they are happy 

i'm going to be doing a new thread from now on, and after i get a new battery charger for my camera will have updated pics on there soon.
~blue


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## Shackleford.R (May 4, 2009)

so only a few hours after the initial topping and LST and the plants are training nicely the branches are staying low, and the leaves are already turning (if not turned) right side up. I have to say i'm impressed with the results thus far, and they haven't even flowered!





 isnt he great?


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## Shackleford.R (May 4, 2009)

so only a few hours after the initial topping and LST and the plants are training nicely the branches are staying low, and the leaves are already turning (if not turned) right side up. I have to say i'm impressed with the results thus far, and they haven't even flowered!





 isnt he great?


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## dopewear (May 4, 2009)

glad everything worked out for you dude looken forward to the LST pics!


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## Shackleford.R (May 4, 2009)

wait no loner d-dub! i'm going to snap them now. i'm a total noob and already VERY confused as to what to do next.
i'll post the pictures and leave it open for discussion.


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## Shackleford.R (May 4, 2009)

wait no loner d-dub! i'm going to snap them now. i'm a total noob and already VERY confused as to what to do next.
i'll post the pictures and leave it open for discussion.


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## Shackleford.R (May 4, 2009)

Here they are... My LST photos, nothing too exciting. Now that its done, I'm actually concerned I did something wrong. 
The pictures are self explanatory, and.....
NEVERMIND!! this is 5th frickin' time this has happened... 

"Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing.

If this occurred unexpectedly, please inform the administrator and describe the action you performed before you received this error."

so scratch that, i'm tired of trying to upload photos only to be shut down...

and actually, i'm thinking i'm not too comfortable with LST, i think i'm going to go set those ladies free, and just continue pruning and topping.


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## dopewear (May 4, 2009)

oh you can only upload 3 at a time dude unless you a gold member i believe


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## Shackleford.R (May 4, 2009)

dopewear said:


> oh you can only upload 3 at a time dude unless you a gold member i believe


the manage attachments window shows space for 4, and i didn't do anything out of the ordinary. websites glitch from time to time, oh well. i couldn't upload to my pictures and albums either. go figure.

on the subject of my grow, i released the confines of LST, and plan to continue pruning and vegging all 5 kids, keep them low lying and bushy, then SCROG and see what sort of results i get.

i'm also looking for a reputable seed outlet. i'm wanting to get some lowryder. i have a feeling 4 or 5 little lowryders in my setup will crank out some good harvests. that and given that they are autoflowering, seems like a no brainer. my rig is pretty no frills, and so autoflowering sounds like a plus.

any thoughts my peeps??


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## slipperyP (May 4, 2009)

Nice looking grow shackleford...when are you going to start flowering...are you using CFL for that?


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## Shackleford.R (May 4, 2009)

slipperyP said:


> Nice looking grow shackleford...when are you going to start flowering...are you using CFL for that?


thanks slip-master-flex (everyone on my journal gets an interesting nickname)

now for a drawn out, yet concise thought process...
Given that I'm going for small scale, i'd like to switch to 12/12 tomorrow. See what i can get out of my random bag seed shorties. However I don't want to sell my short (no pun intended) so i plan to veg for a couple more weeks, bare minimum. Along the way, I'm hoping through continuous topping (and a hefty dose of silicon solution for strength and rigidity) i will have created a nice shrub, similar to a LST plant. 

So at the risk of being repetitive, i plan to veg for about a month pruning/SCROG, then flowering.

Now I believe you're asking if I plan to flower under CFL.. and the answer is YES! I know people say it gives poor results. But I'm having a lot of success vegging under CFL, and whatever this bag seed strain is, it seems to LOVE the CFL daylight spectrum. However, I won't be flowering with the daylight spectrum, I plan on keeping the same lamp fixtures, and using warm white spectrum, to mimic the red-orange glow of the HPS lamps. By keeping the scale small and using the SCROG technique i hope to be able to keep the lamps close enough to achieve dense, hefty buds. 

I've attached a photo of my current lighting rig, not shown in the picture is my make-shift reflector constructed of foam poster board wrapped in mylar, that hangs over the lights.

By the way, I hope everyone reads this and thinks to themselves "You know if he did that, but also did '*this*' he would have much better results" Thats what I'm hoping for, any input any has to offer would be awesome.


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## dopewear (May 4, 2009)

dont flower yet dude how old they now?


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## Shackleford.R (May 4, 2009)

haha of course not!! no i wasn't planning on, just wishful thinking, getting antsy watching these little kids make their way. they are about 3 weeks right now. i plan to veg for another 3 weeks minimum, see where they're at then.

i'm just confused on sexing. one source says, switch to 12/12 pistils/sacs show up instantly, but then your forced to flower from that point. then another source says, they show signs of sex when they are good and ready, THEN you switch to 12/12.


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## GypsyBush (May 4, 2009)

Some people force flower, so the plant shows sex (hopefully) before it is ready... then switch it back to veg... which causes a certain amount of stress...

If you need to sex, I would recommend taking a clone and puting it in 12/12... when it shows sex (hopefully before the mom) you will know what you have....

You are not in a hurry, and you seem to want to do it right... so ...

Just let them be, and grow, and they will drop their panties (hopefully) when they are good and ready...

My 2 cents...


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## dopewear (May 4, 2009)

i vegged for 5 weeks but im growing in a pc case, but if you veg long enough you get preflower eventually but if you flower before you see preflowers itll take few days of 12/12 mine took 3-4 days


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## Shackleford.R (May 4, 2009)

finally a straight answer! +rep for cutting the bullshit. the cloning, the craziness... its not for me. i'll take what females i get when it starts to shoot some pubes. (only when discussing cannabis is that ok to say... and now that i've said it, i'm not so sure)

nice to hear all sides of this, thanks d-dub and gypsy! you know what? +rep for everyone!!


----------



## dopewear (May 4, 2009)

shackle rep your way! wooo rep party!


----------



## GypsyBush (May 4, 2009)

Just remember... males usually develop faster than the females... usually

And also that POLLEN GETS EVERYWHERE... in the ducts, vents, carpet, pets clothes EVRYWHERE...

If you see a male, CONFIRM IT FIRST, but kill it as soon as you know...

One male flower open can doom you whole house forever... not really but almost...

If sensimilla is important to you, keep a close eye for balls...


----------



## GypsyBush (May 4, 2009)

Thanks for the REP...

Here is a taste of what the Gypsy does... lol... Sorry about the hijack...



Indicas @ 6 weeks

























































Satvas @ 6 weeks...


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## Prot3us1 (May 5, 2009)

hey shackleford  wheres my fancy nickname


----------



## growman3666 (May 5, 2009)

well here am,
no disrespect taken man im a laid back joking person,

looking forward to updated pics


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## slipperyP (May 5, 2009)

I was asking if your going to use CFL to flower...I consult a couple of new growers and they haven't caught the bug enough to justify spending the bucks for an HPS/MH...

That being said....In about 4 weeks im gonna need to know what to help them with as fas a CFL goes.... 

Have you found any good pics of flowering with CFL?

Many strains will show sex during veg....it can save you alot of time compared to culling out the males with forced flowering of clones? I think it mostly depends on the strain.


----------



## Shackleford.R (May 5, 2009)

Apparently my thread got a lot of action last night, like a lone redheaded cougar on dollar drink night... So here goes my first multi quote response post!



slipperyP said:


> I was asking if your going to use CFL to flower...I consult a couple of new growers and they haven't caught the bug enough to justify spending the bucks for an HPS/MH...
> 
> That being said....In about 4 weeks im gonna need to know what to help them with as fas a CFL goes....
> 
> ...


I wouldn't go so far as to say I haven't caught the bug enough, my brother keeps tempting me with low wattage HPS bulbs at the grow shop. "Come on man, its only 250W!! It won't blow your electric bill THAT much!" I set out with CFL and I say I'm in it for the long haul. You should check out "bakedat420"s thread, 'Noob tryin it with CFLs' he posts here on my thread time to time, and hes a fellow CFL flowerer i think?? Heres the LINK




growman3666 said:


> well here am,
> no disrespect taken man im a laid back joking person,
> 
> looking forward to updated pics


One love growman.. you'd have to be some kind of crazy to grow cannabis and be an uptight asshole... actually you'd have to be an undercover pig *ZINGER*!!
I should be getting pics up in the next day or so, no rush not much has changed yet since the topping.



Prot3us1 said:


> hey shackleford  wheres my fancy nickname


Protasmic. If you don't like it, too bad, shouldn't have begged for it Protastic.



GypsyBush said:


> Thanks for the REP...
> 
> Here is a taste of what the Gypsy does... lol... Sorry about the hijack...
> 
> ...


Never mind the hijack those pictures are WAY tasty, I love grow porn as much as the next guy. Funny though, I show these pictures to my girl and she just says "thats cool and all, but i just like to smoke it... dont really care to stare at it"
haha if only she knew! its my goal to get her interested and start a crop of her own. but i couldnt even get her to plant something in the vegetable garden outback.



GypsyBush said:


> Just remember... males usually develop faster than the females... usually
> 
> And also that POLLEN GETS EVERYWHERE... in the ducts, vents, carpet, pets clothes EVRYWHERE...
> 
> ...


Alright sweet, this information is awesome, all my grow books and everything else couldn't get this info. Much love for forums like this and fellow growers.
Also this should be the first time in my life I'm checking out balls more than... well I've made enough jokes now



WHEW!!! that was rough. With all that said, thanks for stopping by so often and checking out my grow. I really appreciate all the input, and now its my turn to make the rounds and check out everyone else's threads! What a hard life!


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## dopewear (May 5, 2009)

thats was a well executed multi quote there shackle looken forward to the fuckupdate...


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## Shackleford.R (May 5, 2009)

the fuckupdate? i will kindly ask you to watch your language on my thread! there are children checking this! wait a minute.... there aren't children reading this? never mind.
either way, what the hell you talkin' bout boy?


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## dopewear (May 5, 2009)

its an update of your frequent fuck ups, but im totaly kidden you got this grow bangen!


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## slipperyP (May 5, 2009)

Yo Shack...you get a nickname too...I wasn't trying to say you didn't have the bug. Thanks for the link, i'll check it out....and if
you do join the HPS club...I would recomend a 600 watt. I'm very happy with mine....almost as much power as a 400 watt and almost as much light as a thousand.


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## Gastanker (May 5, 2009)

Hey, nice grow so far! Seen you posting on bakedat420's post and thought i'de check out your op. Looks pretty nifty. Thought i'de chime in about flowering under CFLs - If you can get an HPS i'm sure that would be the best but CFLs can definately throw some good bud. I've been growing small plants under CFLs and the smoke is amazing and the yield pretty decent as well averaging 25g a plant with just a 20 day veg. Hope you dont mind me posting pics but want you to know that you can get great bud from CFLs if need be.


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## Droski7 (May 5, 2009)

Definantly some nice looking plants and the CFL's are good for small grows, seen alot of people with cfl grows that are very sucessful. Anyways nice job keep it up.


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## growman3666 (May 5, 2009)

Gastanker said:


> Hey, nice grow so far! Seen you posting on bakedat420's post and thought i'de check out your op. Looks pretty nifty. Thought i'de chime in about flowering under CFLs - If you can get an HPS i'm sure that would be the best but CFLs can definately throw some good bud. I've been growing small plants under CFLs and the smoke is amazing and the yield pretty decent as well averaging 25g a plant with just a 20 day veg. Hope you dont mind me posting pics but want you to know that you can get great bud from CFLs if need be.


 

bro i would fuck that third picture


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## Prot3us1 (May 5, 2009)

Lol, it could have been worse than protastic . 

Trippy is working out her second set of leaves already man. Like day 3 or 4 i think lol.

Will do pics later!

prot(astic)


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## slipperyP (May 5, 2009)

Gastanker said:


> Hey, nice grow so far! Seen you posting on bakedat420's post and thought i'de check out your op. Looks pretty nifty. Thought i'de chime in about flowering under CFLs - If you can get an HPS i'm sure that would be the best but CFLs can definately throw some good bud. I've been growing small plants under CFLs and the smoke is amazing and the yield pretty decent as well averaging 25g a plant with just a 20 day veg. Hope you dont mind me posting pics but want you to know that you can get great bud from CFLs if need be.



Nice....I'm glad to hear that...I need to check out your thread...Those buds look outstanding.


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## GypsyBush (May 5, 2009)

Hi everyone...

Just thought that I would give my input on the indoor grow equipment issue... this might help some save a buck or two in the long run...

I sprouted my first seed over 20 years ago, but did not move indoors until very recently...

Also, I am saying what I am about to say from personal experience, this is not something I read on the computer or a book...

I started small... really small... in a hotel room nightstand, with an Aerogarden...

I upgraded the lights... 17.8 times... 

I upgraded the "ventilation" 13.4 times...

When I harvested, I had so much crap, it wasn't even funny...

So I decided to go bigger.. one light instead of 22.37 CFLs...

Choose to go with a 400 watt digi (hps/mh)...

Then, following my instincts, last minute I switched to a cooltubed 600 digi...

I built a tent, bought a bigger fan than I thought I needed...

Basically I choose what I wanted and upped it one step....

Best decision I made in my op...

Today, even though my op has grown, every bit of equipment I bought for the tent is still in use... and performing flawlessly...

My point is that if know you will be growing for a while, invest in the right tools for the job... and keep in mind that if you get a bigger light than you think you need, the only downside will be having to tie up the HUGE COLAS that will form...

A 600 digi with a cooltube and a fan not only will keep your plants happy and the heat at bay, the monthly cost is not that much ... I don't know where you are, but *one bud* from such a set up will pay for the extra electricity...

On the same hand... cfls are very worthy for what they are, and some people manage to get great results... I know I did!

But another thing to consider is the Gram per Watt rating of your op...

I have seen "budget" grows put out some of the most expensive herb on the planet...

Good Herb, don't get me wrong, but if you look at how many dollars you "burned" for each gram you got to smoke... you will have to agree with me that NOTHING other than the SUN will beat an HPS for flowering cannabis...

SOoooo...

Go with what you know, but if you invest in a complete CFL set-up that will give you less bud, only to upgrade in the future...

So my advice for anyone serious about growing their own bud is to buy the biggest light and ventilation system you will EVER need... so you only buy one light... one fan... etc... forever...

Remember, in the end it's the G/W rating of your op that will say how cheap your buds really are...

I have gotten up to 1.8 G/W in my SOG op... with 1G/W being what most growers strive for...

So even if my bill is higher, my buds are still cheaper...

OK.. I am not even editing this... it's a straight shooter... 

Sorry about the ramble, but I am heavily medicated and still in a fair amount of pain...

Anyways...

Cheerio!


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## Gastanker (May 5, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Hi everyone...
> 
> I have gotten up to 1.8 G/W in my SOG op... with 1G/W being what most growers strive for...
> 
> ...


1.8g/w? Seriously? I'm about to set-up a 4kW op and could sure use your advice if you're getting 1.8g/w when the rest of the big time growers here are topping out on 1g/w and happy with .75. PM me if you don't mind.


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## Shackleford.R (May 5, 2009)

DOWN YOU WILD BEASTS!!! haha just kidding, thanks for all the stories to read, i'm mindblown that an entire page was dedicated just to my readers/fellow growers testimonials. oh how we growers love to brag.

all that aside. kids are looking LOVELY, bushing out nicely. I'll take some pictures tomorrow, they should be looking extra sexy by then.

shackleford, out!


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## GypsyBush (May 5, 2009)

Sorry about the hijack...

I am on planet funny right now... 

I'll try to control myself in the future..lol...


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## growman3666 (May 5, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Sorry about the hijack...
> 
> I am on planet funny right now...
> 
> I'll try to control myself in the future..lol...


 
bro im on planet of the sheep


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## Shackleford.R (May 5, 2009)

time for a stupid question. i know topping leads to branching (its how i trained my basil in the garden outback) but where does it branch out? the lower nodes will start to become fuller?
i'm sure i'll see the effects i'm just having a total brain/memory lapse right now. what should i expect to see?


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## growman3666 (May 5, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> time for a stupid question. i know topping leads to branching (its how i trained my basil in the garden outback) but where does it branch out? the lower nodes will start to become fuller?
> i'm sure i'll see the effects i'm just having a total brain/memory lapse right now. what should i expect to see?


 







ey check out my new journal


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## Shackleford.R (May 5, 2009)

so i can expect those sites to branch? i see the leaf development is in full force, that leafy goodness leads to the branching?


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## GypsyBush (May 5, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> so i can expect those sites to branch? i see the leaf development is in full force, that leafy goodness leads to the branching?


Sure does... those are nodes... and that's why it is important to have nodes when you clone.. so you get branches when it grows...

Good stuff!


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## growman3666 (May 5, 2009)

they become totally new tops


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## growman3666 (May 5, 2009)

you know how when you top your plant it sprouts two new tops, well lets just put it this way, every circle will be a new top


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## GypsyBush (May 5, 2009)

Hey Shack... 

I was just wondering if you have found your way through the GrowFAQ yet...

Lots of good info there... I browse it all the time...

Cheers...


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## Shackleford.R (May 5, 2009)

i'm keeping them short for veg, i dont plan to allow them to grow taller than about 10 inches TOPS! should i force flower with 12/12 after i have a good bit of leafiness?

oh and yeah, i check out Grow FAQ often, most of my questions get answered there first. when i want some depth/detail i come here. appreciate it bro.


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## GypsyBush (May 5, 2009)

Right on... I was just making sure you weren't missing out...

As for flowering, I thought you were going to train them...

Anyways,, if you are just letting them go, I would switch them when they get to be about half the size you want the to finish at...

They will keep growing a good bit in flower....

But dude... I thought you were going to veg them for a long time and put a screen over it...

Am I mixing grows here? oops!


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## Shackleford.R (May 6, 2009)

no no you're not mixing grows. i plan to train through topping, just branch like crazy. i've decided LST is too bizarre for me, and i can't really grasp the proper technique given the way my grow is setup. it becomes rather difficult to train 5 kids in one planter.
(time for the obvious "well why not put them in separate planters?!" well the reason, i dont have the space for it)
anybody else get woken up by their girlfriend for no good reason today?


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## Shackleford.R (May 6, 2009)

so after a bitchy little girl post about my girly waking me up... something a little more real!

took a plant at the kids just now, and have to say topping was an awesome idea! the ladies are looking lovely and bushy. if it continues at this rate i may begin force flowering within a couple weeks. all i'm truly waiting for are the lower nodes to branch out a bit, the topping has already made its effects known, the lower node leaf/branch development rate has doubled since topping. Still waiting on my straggler to gain some height, i'm hoping for an even canopy, aside from the one beast that is about an inch or so taller. I do expect that straggler to be reaching the average height by the weekend, its spitting up its next set of leafs/branches as we speak. 

to put to rest my grow outlook, i plan to get the little ladies as shrubby as possible. once they have bushed out and i can more or less no longer see the hydrotron medium through the canopy, its force flower time. (hopefully they have matured by that time, so i dont have to deal with the possible stress) my main concern right now is lighting, i had to rearrange fixtures today as they are beginning to fill out. flowering light arrangment might be a pain in the ass.

i'm considering picking this guy up from Lowe's for my flowering lamp, and using my current lights as lower auxiliary fixtures.







i also have this beast of a CFL, 26 W actual... *300 WATT* equivalent!! its in the proper light spectrum as well, around 2700-3000K. If i do go with that beast i'm in the process of developing a custom built hood for it, so the spiral can be sideways as opposed to right side up (like you would see in a ceiling fixture) as i've heard they are more efficient that way for growing.

not much else to say at this point. should have pictures up in a couple hours. just waiting on the cameras battery to get some juice. in the mean time, i just might get myself ready to face the day and head over to the friendly, neighborhood hydro shop.


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## Gastanker (May 6, 2009)

What kinda light is that big one in the picture? And i think you might mean 68w being equivalent to 300w? Just a freindly fyi, most CFL growers try to keep away from posting equivalencies due to no one growing with incandescent lights. Those 68w CFLs are great though, try and get the 2700k if possible.


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## Shackleford.R (May 6, 2009)

yeah thats right... my memory is shit. that light is actually an outdoor flood security light. its actual was 26 which is weak... but given the size of the fixture maybe??? i dont know, im off to the dro store to find a reflector for that beast CFL i picked up, i think it combined with a sturdy reflector and a few auxiliary lamps (by few i mean the 8 im using for veg, should lend to a respectable yield. (genetics, watering, temp... blah blah, aside, the light should be decent enough)

i might cave and pick this guy up though... Hydrofarm CFL Reflector looks pretty flippin' sweet to me.

peace my peoples.


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## BudTinsley (May 6, 2009)

Hey man. Just read through your thread and I must say, I learned quite a bit. I'm also a CFL gardener using the SCROG method, so I will be referencing back to your thread often. +rep for this grow man. Looks good, keep it up.


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## GypsyBush (May 6, 2009)

Right on...

LST is easy though.. you just tie a string to your pot...

As long as you do not break the branches, you will be good...

As for the light...

You never replied to my MEGA post on equipment, but I assume you read it...

I would stay away from things that will make you upgrade...

For you small grow, something like this would work splendid...

http://htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=45719

A 400 with a DIY cool tube would be even better... can you say PHAT NUGZ ?!?!?!

Cheers Bro!


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## blueberry1 (May 6, 2009)

yeah this is a great thread. how's everythin over here shackle?
~blue


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## Shackleford.R (May 6, 2009)

blueberry1 said:


> yeah this is a great thread. how's everythin over here shackle?
> ~blue


Everything is going well! Thanks for dropping in blue mama. (see earlier post about nicknames) My kids have responded well to topping, I topped my 3rd last night, still waiting on two to catch up with the rest, and all will have been topped. I'm beginning to realize that my grow is turning into more of a mini SOG, rather than SCROG. I'm opting to bush out the lower limbs so that I go into flower with a huge stockpile of leafiness that I hope will lead to more stored energy to be converted to a hearty bloom. I may place a screen of some kind or rig some sort of plant stake to add support. BUT this silicon solution I've been using seems to make the kids nice and sturdy, thick stems for such young plants.  (see post on 1st page of thread for library of nutrients) 



GypsyBush said:


> Right on...
> 
> LST is easy though.. you just tie a string to your pot...
> 
> ...


See above for my take on the LST. As far as this mega post on equipment goes, PLEASE share the link. I was listening in on all the conversations going around at the hydro shop and was blown away by everyones knowledge of equipment, I felt like the new kid at school sitting behind the popular kids waiting for a chance to chime in. But that time never came..  

I'm going to post some photos after this post of my current equipment/garden, let you know where I'm at as far as that is concerned. BTW I found a flowering light solution in the used equipment area at the hydro shop.. $12.50 for the reflector, you'll see.. should lend to a respectable blooming.



BudTinsley said:


> Hey man. Just read through your thread and I must say, I learned quite a bit. I'm also a CFL gardener using the SCROG method, so I will be referencing back to your thread often. +rep for this grow man. Looks good, keep it up.


I'm happy to hear someone is learning from my mistakes.. haha. This thread (Dopewear put it..) is just fuckupdate after fuckupdate.. lol!! This is my first go at indoor gardening of ANY kind, is there a better way to start??? So each day I'M learning something, so it's pretty cool to know my experience is helping others. RIU is the shizzz for sure, keep checking and I'll be sure to 'scribe your thread...

That is all for now (by now I mean this minute haha..) Pictures coming within the hour...


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## blueberry1 (May 6, 2009)

oh these are about to all be big blue mamas
hehe. just a teaser..more in my post


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## growman3666 (May 6, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> That is all for now (by now I mean this minute haha..) Pictures coming within the hour...


 cantt wait


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## GypsyBush (May 6, 2009)

Well, It's post #66 on your thread...lol... page 7 if I am not mistaken...

Click on this link and it will take you to it...

https://www.rollitup.org/2461679-post66.html

I promise I am not trying to control or convert you to do anything...

I just wanted to share my experience with VERY COSTLY UPGRADES...

And you are starting to get your terminology crossed...lol..

no biggie... but you don't have neither a SOG or a SCROG...lol...

You could turn your grow into a SCROG, but by definition, SOG is growing lots of little plants as a single cola... you do the opposite from topping...

Here, this may help...


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## GypsyBush (May 6, 2009)

This diagram may also help you "visualize" LST a bit better... it is probably your best option, in all reality...

You could do a big ol' spiral and have a huge area with LOTS OF TOPS...

But ... go with what you know... I am just trying to illustrate some of the options


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## GypsyBush (May 6, 2009)

Here is an example of a perpetual harvest SOG... by Al B. Fuct...

I copy his op...


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## GypsyBush (May 6, 2009)

Since I have TOTALLY taken over your thread... lol... sorry... but I think you can benefit from some of this...

I figured I should show you my op... so at least you know I am not totally full of crap...lol...

Indicas @ 6 weeks...













































Satvas @ 6 weeks...































The Op...













What do you think?


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## blueberry1 (May 6, 2009)

*Well i think those look great!!!!! Nice job gypsy + REP!!!!!!!

Check out my grow..I think mine will be similar to yours... blueberry big bud, + mysteries that are huge! Hydroponic setup but i'm only watering 1x/day or every other day. let me know your thoughts and looking forward to seeing yours.
~blue
*


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## Shackleford.R (May 6, 2009)

Alright man.. haha i appreciate everything you're showing me and all. But this is direction I'm going with, this is just a small personal use grow, so I'm not really concerned with a perpetual setup. 

Moving right along as promised here are the photos.. They are a bit out of order.


(just saw they posted out of order... you can figure it out i'm sure)

*PIC 1* That's right folks!!! 125 ACTUAL CFL wattage!

*PIC 2* Check it out!! Lower branching is revving up. Also why are my stems shedding? Assume its good, just means its getting bigger and stronger

*PIC 3* There she is! My flowering bulb in its housing. 2700K, don't plan on flipping it on until flowering, I will also have some auxiliary bulbs surrounding the lower branches

*PIC 4* The straggler, still waiting to be topped. Those sexy leaves in the middle will top out the 5th node

*PIC 5* This is my only concern, the small yellowing on the top edge.. early signs of N deficiency?? 

*PIC 6* Just another view of the hood. I guess its actually called a "wing" i've heard it is AWESOME though

*PIC 7* Red circles are topped, blue is waiting to be topped...

That's all for now, off to the flea market to get some fake ID's haha maybe...
Leave your thoughts, and input on *PIC 5*


 and keep


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## GypsyBush (May 6, 2009)

I think those plants look fine!

And Shack, I wasn't suggesting you go perpetual...

I was just trying to illustrate different routes you can go.. and what the different types of grow are...

I actually think that your best bet for yield is a screen or tying them down...

But I will shut up now and let you do your thing...lol..

You are doing great!

And NICE LIGHT set-up by the way.. your plants will love the extra light!

Cheers!


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## blueberry1 (May 6, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> no biggie... but you don't have neither a SOG or a SCROG...lol...
> 
> You could turn your grow into a SCROG, but by definition, SOG is growing lots of little plants as a single cola... you do the opposite from topping...
> 
> Here, this may help...


*hey gyspsy...i don't think you were talking to me? but if you were..i do believe it was a sea of green, a little bit un-trimmed, and to start out i was letting them grow vertical.... I haven't topped any of them...just Lsting. i'm going to let it become a scrog once the little branches start stretching more. It was a sea of green, then lsting, then moving into being a scrog. hope that explains it 
*


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## Shackleford.R (May 6, 2009)

quick note... i crunched a few numbers... if my calculations are correct, between the new CFL reflector and my plans for the 8 aux lamps, i can expect... are you ready for this??

22,125 LUMENS in the 2700-3500K light spectrum!!! given the dimensions of my grow area i think i have an awesome harvest ahead.
also, do you think these kids are ready for a more aggressive nute recipe? also anyone use any of the following General Hydroponics products..

-Liquid KoolBloom
-FloraNectar
-FloraBlend
-Floarlicious

...if so, what do they do? do they do it well? worth it for my grow setup??


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## NeoAnarchist (May 6, 2009)

wow...um...i really like ur setup man, thats like...a freakin DREAM op of mine. but is that ur flowering room? u got some blues and reds in there lol (mh an hps) what kinda fan are you using?


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## monstrgonja (May 6, 2009)

hey man i have the same water farm system as you, check it out. but mine has a res connected with a total of 8 buckets. you should never put more than one plant together in one bucket. i know it says you can but it is a bad idea.


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## Shackleford.R (May 6, 2009)

NeoAnarchist said:


> wow...um...i really like ur setup man, thats like...a freakin DREAM op of mine. but is that ur flowering room? u got some blues and reds in there lol (mh an hps) what kinda fan are you using?


thanks i appreciate the love. its my GROW room haha. its a closet in a spare room here. i am strict CFL grower, as I'm growing for personal use, and don't care much about bag appeal or anything like that, I'm going for the most cost effective grow. take what i can get from the harvest. don't want to deal with the electric bills that come along with running/cooling a MH or HPS. as far as fan goes... just the one i have attached in the photo, its actually a window mount fan, that happens to fit snugly across the closet haha. i run it 24/7. pretty sweet, actually has a switch on each fan independent exhaust/intake controls. but for this application is it blowing air directly at the plants and indirectly by pulling it away. it sits directly across from the waterfarm in the closet.


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## NeoAnarchist (May 6, 2009)

heck ya, i actually need to get me a fan like that for my flower room, i turned my closet into a flower room, just gonna run one 400w HPS, i just have some cfls and some flouros in the cab, its pretty badass if i say so myself haha


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## dopewear (May 6, 2009)

shackle look at my thread your getting me into trouble! lol


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## Shackleford.R (May 7, 2009)

BBBUUUMMMPP!!!!!!!!!!!!



Shackleford.R said:


> quick note... i crunched a few numbers... if my calculations are correct, between the new CFL reflector and my plans for the 8 aux lamps, i can expect... are you ready for this??
> 
> 22,125 LUMENS in the 2700-3500K light spectrum!!! given the dimensions of my grow area i think i have an awesome harvest ahead.
> also, do you think these kids are ready for a more aggressive nute recipe? also anyone use any of the following General Hydroponics products..
> ...


anybody got anything for me... about the lights... good lumens? the nutes? eh? eh? yeah?


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## blueberry1 (May 7, 2009)

oh yeah, great choice on the bubbly metallic hood....that is the same texture mine has and its supposed to be the BEST


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## blueberry1 (May 7, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> quick note... i crunched a few numbers... if my calculations are correct, between the new CFL reflector and my plans for the 8 aux lamps, i can expect... are you ready for this??
> 
> 22,125 LUMENS in the 2700-3500K light spectrum!!! given the dimensions of my grow area i think i have an awesome harvest ahead.
> also, do you think these kids are ready for a more aggressive nute recipe? also anyone use any of the following General Hydroponics products..
> ...


*i've heard the General Hydoponics are a great brand of nutes. I use their cal-mag...not really sure how it works because i've had a couple different brown spotting of my leaves and still do. I use the NSR Greenleaves Grow, Bloom & Boost Juice... which are highly recommended for newbies and I know a few people who use them. I can't say if I am satisfied because I have yet to harvest, right  My stuff is bout $32-42/gallon

So far, so good*


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## growman3666 (May 7, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> Alright man.. haha i appreciate everything you're showing me and all. But this is direction I'm going with, this is just a small personal use grow, so I'm not really concerned with a perpetual setup.
> 
> Moving right along as promised here are the photos.. They are a bit out of order.
> 
> ...


 





fucken looking righteous man 
good job


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## GypsyBush (May 7, 2009)

You're doing good man...

The light will help out tremendoulsy...

As for nutes, I have used the Greenleaves line up, it works great!

Here are the first buds I grew with that line of nutes...


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## Shackleford.R (May 7, 2009)

those are some beautiful frosty little nugs. i'm already invested in GH Flora and FloraNova, i picked up the floralicious nutrient additive today. check out the bottom of page 1 for a rundown of my nutrient library.


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## NeoAnarchist (May 7, 2009)

dude, that flora nova is AWESOME, it works out great, a buddy of mine had some he used in his grow, its a little pricey but its worth it, i do the 3 part GH tho, so grow, micro , and bloom, i also go the flouralicious and the MagiCal. everything is just fine!


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## Shackleford.R (May 7, 2009)

i haven't seen the MagiCal saw someone else mention it. whats the story? no clue what its about.


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## Shackleford.R (May 8, 2009)

So the kids have reached new heights of shrubbiness in just 36 hours! The last overhead view you saw posted here, is now dwarfed by the gardens current incantation. 







There is the garden currently. I circled a few of my concerns and numbered them.. in case quality is low, a brief explanation of what I saw, so you know what you're looking for...

*1* A soft yellowing around the edges of the leaf
*2* Yellowing tips of the leaf (see earlier pics post, seems to have progressed)
*3* Burning of the leaf edges, similar to the photos on Post #1 of this thread
*4* Tiny, tiny holes in the leaf, looks like I may have an inset problem? Although I haven't spotted any little pesties on the plant or in the grow closet (in the house is a different story.. )

The non bad news about all this is that I'm nearing the end of my veg, They have had a solid 4 weeks of veg, and I'm actually surprised how much growth has occurred in those 4 short weeks. I intend now, regardless of sexual maturity, to adjust to a 12/12 lighting schedule by the end of week 6. The angry teenagers are already getting about as bushy as I had planned for them to be, but I don't want to push/stress them before bloom. I'll just let them be angry teenagers for another week or two.

Most feeding schedules I have seen for any nutrient, details a "transition" phase. If I were to force 12/12 on the kids do I start transitional phase nutes on the first day of 12/12 or the day before or the day after? 

When do YOU start your transitional phase, I guess is the better question?


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## Shackleford.R (May 8, 2009)

bumpity bumpity bump bump bump!!!


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## blueberry1 (May 8, 2009)

*Crap Gypsy those are some tine plants and fatty nugs. how old were they when u started flowering!?!?!
check out my grow i am flowering starting today 
~blue
*


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## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)

Shack... People do all kinds of transitions...

I don't...

When I switch, I just go to 12/12 and switch my nutes...

The plant will take a few days to adjust, but it will...

The 12/12 light schedule is the trigger... the bloom nutes will help it stop growing and make flowers...

Your plants are going to double in size during flowering..

Growth will only intensify if you keep it in veg...

Not telling you what to do here, but just making sure you are not going to run out of room because they vegged too long...

Just my 2 cents...

And BlueBerry, they were 3" clones put into flower the day I saw roots...


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## Shackleford.R (May 8, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Shack... People do all kinds of transitions...
> 
> I don't...
> 
> ...


I dont give you enough cred gypsy.. seems every question i would like answered, you offer timely advice. i did some pruning, completely took off two large leaves that covered the canopy, and snipped a few leaf tips in half here and there to open things up a little bit. i figure they are going to be stressed for a bit. so i'll give them the weekend to recover, and take a drink of a fresh batch of veg nutes i mixed up today. then come monday i guess its transition nutes and first day of 12/12

+rep gypsy. thanks!!


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## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)

Be careful of pruning leaves...

We think of feeding the plants with nutes...

But in reality, the LEAVES ARE THE FOOD FACTORY..

The leaves process the nutes with the energy from the light...

Cut off the leaf, cut off one food factory...

You will notice that later on, pretty much every budsite will have a fan leaf "attatched" to it...

Remove that fan leaf and you will hurt that bud along with the plant's over all ability to convert light and nutes into the food it needs...

Lst is good because it allows you to spread you canopy, instead of trimming, to get rid of shading...

Move the leafs under others, tie the to the branch... do whatever, but I do not recommend taking leaves off...

Unless you have a very specific plan, which usually includes cleaning the bottom the bottom, never the top...

Your buds will need the fan leaves.. trust me...lol..

Oh and thanks for the rep!
Did you see my latest update?


Cheers...








https://www.rollitup.org/2472369-post746.html


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## dopewear (May 8, 2009)

hey shackle all looks well how tall are they now? flowering come monday sounds good remember the can grow 2-3x their size in flowering, but hey the bigger the better.


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## Shackleford.R (May 8, 2009)

dopewear said:


> hey shackle all looks well how tall are they now? flowering come monday sounds good remember the can grow 2-3x their size in flowering, but hey the bigger the better.


they are beastly haha. well not truly, they are wide as they are tall, and around 7-9" roughly. 

over the weekend i'm going to keep an eye on whats making the most shade and do some tie down (LST) work. I trimmed today, and may have OVERtrimmed one plant, took TWO of her largest fan leaves. I'm kicking myself in the ass for that one, but oh well, the girl is still really bushy so we'll see.

i think so long as i don't snip or trim back anymore leaves i should be alright.


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## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)

Oh... they'll be fine...

You would be surprised the kind of abuse they will take...

But the idea is to minimize the fuck ups in order to maximize the yield...

Cheers...


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## dopewear (May 8, 2009)

yah shack minimal fuck ups!


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## Shackleford.R (May 8, 2009)

dopewear said:


> yah shack minimal fuck ups!


You know D-Dub sometimes I wonder whether I should laugh along, or send you a digital/virtual/interwebz smack on the back of the head. I'm going to opt for the laughter simply because we BOTH know you fuck up way more often than I do.  giggity!

On a different note, I'm planning my next grow considering a cabinet of some kind, going stealth so I'm thinking one of those garage storage cabinets. Then going DIY crazy on that mofo.

I'm looking around at seedbanks and don't know who I should trust to send me the seed of a controlled substance to the southwest US. Somewhere between New Mexico and Louisiana. (figure it out for yourself)

Anyhow, looking for feminized seed so I don't have to deal with cloning. I'm hoping to have a 6 pot DWC for the cabinet. (This is all talk, till I ask my girlfriend, haha, sad but true her house too)

SO!! I ask you RIU users, do you live in the US? did your seeds make it to you? who did you order from? safe/stealth enough that you would recommend your mother order seeds from them? what is the seed company's definition of "stealth", i.e. what sort of label on packaging, what showed on credit card statement, delivery to home address ok, etc. ????


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## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)

Cloning is soooo easy...

But this should help you with seed ordering...

Cheers...

A How to from Mane**(How To order seeds the best way)***


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## dopewear (May 8, 2009)

im going for a new cab this weekend! should be of the hook... but ill be cloning and in soil. because im cooler lol and your right i enjoy fucking up


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## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)

a good read...


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## GypsyBush (May 8, 2009)




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## Shackleford.R (May 8, 2009)

intriguing! that first piece on H2O2 i think i have the same hydro mag. i read it on my trip a couple weeks ago haha. free literature at the hydro store = awesome!


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## Shackleford.R (May 10, 2009)

Well the weekend is drawing to a close. I added the 125 W 2700 k hood on Friday, and cut back a few CFL's. No more Y-splitters instead I have cut back to only aux CFL bulbs. To give the plants a little more spectral range, 2-2700 k and 2-6500 k. 
Also I went against a few of my instincts and tied back a few stems, just a few to open up for some airflow and allow light to move around a little better. I even tied back one plant to give it a little bit of a gangsta lean also to open things up a bit.

Along with the new light spectrum came a little mock "late summer" light schedule, days are becoming a little shorter. I went from a 18/6 to 16/8 lighting schedule. I think this is enough, along with the new light spectrum, and just the general age of the plant will push the plants show me some sex....  I mean uh... you know what I'm getting at! I am concerned though that I may have spotted some balls on the larger kid. At any rate, as soon as I see some definite signs of sex the plants will be going 12/12 immediately!! 

Now that the roots have begun to stretch and reach the reservoir, it approaches running dry every couple days. I do not have a TDS meter, but I assume it's safe to just top off the reservoir and run with it for a day or so till the level gets a little low, and THEN flush and new batch of nutrients. Which is what I plan to do and at that time I will be going with a transitional mix of nutrients, as per the GH feeding schedule.

I'll post a few photos tomorrow to let you see what the setup looks like now with the hood, and some tie back photos, and some balls photos (hopefully NOT balls though )

So I leave you with a couple of questions...


*1*- Will my light schedule (16/ trick the plants into thinking "fall" is coming, before 12/12 ?

*2*- Can I spot preflowers without any magnification? If so, will it be too late to snag the males? (keep in mind I'm a newb and don't know what to look for, other than two white hairs or a little bump, or where exactly, other than at the nodes) 

*3*- Is it a bad idea to top off the reservoir without knowing my TDS? (I've gone 2-3 days at a time with NO nutrients at all, just filtered spring water, and it was fine, so I assume??) Could that lead to nutrient lockout of what few nutrients are left?


That's all for now... Jesus that was long!!!
As always all advice is appreciated, from beginners like myself and more experienced growers.
 and keep 
Almost forgot this guy...


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## GypsyBush (May 10, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> *1*- Will my light schedule (16/ trick the plants into thinking "fall" is coming, before 12/12 ?


No... 

and Yes...

OK... it's not that simple... and I sure don't claim to be an expert on plant phisiology...

But I do know that the Cannabis plant creates the "flowering hormone" during period of dark... and such "hormone" will "dissipate" during the lights on period...

12/12 has been found to be the longest light period "most" cannabis strains can handle while still building up on the "flowering hormones" level...

So yes, your "flowering hormone" will increase, but not sufficiently to "trigger" the flowering (reproductive) cycle...

So.. as it may be that a little shock happens, it is well established that no harm comes from an abrupt change in regime...

The plant wil adapt on it's own speed anyways...

There is not much we can do to "force flowering"... 

It will only do it when it is physiologically possible...

Like most beings, it has to have the right parts to make babies (flowers)



Shackleford.R said:


> *2*- Can I spot preflowers without any magnification? If so, will it be too late to snag the males? (keep in mind I'm a newb and don't know what to look for, other than two white hairs or a little bump, or where exactly, other than at the nodes)


Yea you can... the GrowFAQ has a wealth of info...

I am kinda tired and I will let you got there and research...

But you can EASILY spot female and male flowers as they develop, with the naked eye...

If it is too small to see, it is too early to tell... way too early...

You will switch back and forth, thinking it's male, no it's female.. unlti the fre flowers actually form...

A lot of people confuse the little bumps for pre flowers, but they are ususlly really talking about new growth emerging...

Check the GrowFAQ it will answer all you sexing questions...



Shackleford.R said:


> *3*- Is it a bad idea to top off the reservoir without knowing my TDS? (I've gone 2-3 days at a time with NO nutrients at all, just filtered spring water, and it was fine, so I assume??) Could that lead to nutrient lockout of what few nutrients are left?


You need to know the pH..

I am not sure what you nutrient regime is, but I recommend that between res changes you only top off with fresh water... but it is important to keep the pH in check or you will run into nute lock...

Now... if you live in a place where the water happens to be just the perfect chemistry to work with you nutes.. you might luck out..

User Vette claims to have never check pH in hos life...

But I am sure if he moved to my house he would kill his plants without pH control...

Does that make sense?




Shackleford.R said:


> and keep
> Almost forgot this guy...


Can't forget that guy now...

Cheers...


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## Shackleford.R (May 10, 2009)

thank you gypsy! as usual timely advice. I'd red you up all night and day if i could. haha. I see the green point of growth at the node (i'm sure you know what i'm referring to) the green leafy/stemmy bit below where the preflower emerges, and i'm not confusing that for the pre flowers, but i assume you are correct in that what i see as balls is probably just new growth bump. oh we will see, its fairly early to start looking, plants are only about 1 month old. hopefully see some something by the coming weeks end..

oh and thank you for the seed bank post. that was a pretty sweet guide, and rested a few worries. haha i'm still convinced RIU network is a scheme set up to suck in naive growers and convince them there is a loving, online community of growers so that that they suck me in to buying seeds and busting my ass... a little paranoid? maybe. haha

good night RIU


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## GypsyBush (May 10, 2009)

I trust no one here..

And I get paranoied as fuck...

But I am in a medical state, and have plenty of medical reason to warrant my need to grow..

Still, I just tried to delete my pics and couldn't.. scares me...

Trust no one.. get personal with no one...

That is my advice.. I am SURE LEO is lurking...

Maybe I'm a cop...lol...

Trust no one...

But I think if you buy seeds from a reputable seed bank... you would be ok...

I see no reason to take the risk myself... but I am sure I have taken risks others wouldn't...

Just remember .. it's all fun and games until you're in jail and "Tyrone" wants a new piece of ass...

Trust no one... not even me...

Cheers...

Didn't mean to scare you... 99% OF THE PEOPLE HERE ARE COOL, just no way to know the 1%...


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## GypsyBush (May 11, 2009)

All right.. sooo...

I did some digging for you...

This stuff is *ALL* from the GrowFAQ

And it is available to everyone at the click of a mouse...lol...

I love the GrowFAQ

Well, now I just hope at least some of it helps out..lol..

Cheers Bro!

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><

*What are preflowers?*

Preflowers, as opposed to full blown flowers, generally appear after the fourth week of _vegetative_ growth from seed. Check carefully above the fourth node. Please note that preflowers are very small and and almost impossible to differentiate without magnification. A photographer's 10x loupe is handy indeed when examining preflowers. 

As the images below demonstrate, the female preflower is pear shaped and produces a pair of pistils. Frequently, the female preflowers do not show pistils until well after the preflowers have emerged. Thus, don't yank a plant because it has no pistils. Pistillate preflowers are located at the node between the stipule and emerging branch. 

Also, some female preflowers never produce pistils. A female preflower without pistils is difficult to distinguish from a male preflower. Thus, hermaphodite issues should not be resolved by the appearance of preflowers, without pistils, on a plant otherwise believed to be a female. 

*Female (pistillate)* 







*Image courtesy of MrIto* 

*Female (pistillate)* 






*Image courtesy of Uncle Ben* 

The male preflower may be described as a "ball on a stick." However, its most recognizable feature is its absence of pistils. Sometimes, a male plant will develop mature staminate flowers after prolonged periods of vegetative growth. These appear in clusters around the nodes. 

The following image shows a male plant in early flowering. Staminate flowers are located at the node between the stipule and emerging branch. 

*Male (staminate)* 
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]




[/FONT]

*Image courtesy of PLAYn* 





*Image courtesy of PsycoXul

><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><



**How can I identify a female by seeing its pre-flowers?*

Added by: 10k Viewed: 496 times Rated by 86 users: 9.06/10 These pictures and quotes were donated from a sexing thread about identifying females by their pre-flowers (primordia) which was authored by "Crazy Composer". The pictures alone speak a thousand words... 








Note: The plant parts marked with an "X" are called "stipules", they appear on both male and female plants. 


This diagram shows the difference (on a slightly more mature plant) between genuine pre-flowers and actual bud sites, which are - in fact different animals altogether. 







From a further distance, but quite clear-cut. 
I know how it is for some of the newer growers who are eagerly anticipating their first view of an actual marijuana flower. Well, this is what it looks like, play your cards right and you'll have thousands of these hairs clumped tightly together and covered in crystals that will smell so nice. Don't worry, it's coming. 







><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><




*What does an emerging MALE preflower look like?*

Contributed by: *bc-trichome-farmer* 
Thanks to: FOAF 
Submitted: June 11th, 2004 

Identifying a true preflower is way to tell sex before 12/12. That way you can take clones from the known females without wasting the time and space on males. 

Note: 
(Kifit) "do not try to sex a seedling based on the very first preflower you see with a 25x times microscope.....wait and make sure. The time between using a 25x to spot the very first preflower sex and the plant dropping pollen is at least 10+ days away and so it's safe." 

"It's best to cull a male only after you are 101% sure - when you see 2 or 3 (or more) immature male flowers bunched together on the internodes or the top growing tip - this is a male, for sure, females preflowers have white " spears " that appear in a vee. ..but "every now and then a sexually indistinguishable flower appears" (Ed Rosenthal) 

After a few weeks in veg, plants will begin to show their sex. Usually the males show first. The male preflower is a miniscule ball. It appears that there is a small piece of foliage that covers the ball and protrudes outward when the male preflowers first appear. 

The following pics show MALE preflowers the FIRST day they show their future pollen distribution centers. 

Many times preflowers will appear at the fourth or fifth node, whereas the plant is on the 7th or 8th node. These preflowers usually don't develop into full flowers, but are only an indicator of the plants sex. 

     



 Female on left, male on right. Im only certain about the sex cause I watched them several more days. 25X magnification. 

Image credit to: FOAF







><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

*After 10 days flowering, what does a female look like?*

The following image clearly displays a female plant at about 10 days flowering, using a 400w HPS. *NOTE:* Indica dominant strains will flower faster than Sativa varieties. 

Photo Contributed By: OldPink 








><><>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

*After 10 days flowering what does a male look like?*

The following image displays a male plant at about 10 days flowering. 

Photo Contributed By: PLAYn 








><><><>>><><><><><><><><><><><><><>>><><><><><><>




*How do I sex using a paper bag?*

Contributed By: *Daveiscool* 

Get a small paper bag or something similar that is lightproof (a paper bag will not be suitable for strong H.I.D lighting), and a plastic coated twist tie. 

Select a plant that you would like to sex and choose a growing tip. Take the paper bag, place it over the top of the selected tip and seal with the twisty tie. Then, to simulate the flowering phase, simply remove the bag after the 12hr dark period, and replace when the 12hr day cycle ends. 

After 7-14 days, the growth-tip you covered should start showing signs of its sex. 

Editor's note: 
Caution should be taken when closing the bag too tightly around the branch. 
A small opening should be left open to allow air exchange and prevent heat buildup. Black materials tend to heat up and the branch may suffer from excess heat, causing wilting. 

(10k) 
"There is plenty of air inside the paper baggage because it would hold its own blown up shape...sorta balloned over the branch tip." 

Contributed by: *luckyleaf* 
Submitted: September 5th, 2004 

This is for people that dont have room for clones or just want to know the sex of there plant without takeing and rooting early cuttings. 

Things you need: 
1 can of black spray piant 
1 box of plastic ziplock baggie (sandwich bag size) 

Take the plastic baggie and spraypaint the outside of the baggie, then find one of the lower branches that is furthest from the light (this will insure that light reflection on the black paint isnt too intence for heat buildup)and just simply slip the baggie over the branch for 12 hours of darkness. 

If you have painted the whole baggie, then no light will get through to the branch when the lights are on. You will see sex on that one branch in 7 to 10 days in most cases. 

I have done this many times on inside and outside plants.






><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><






*Flower Biology*

Contributed by: *CSS* 
Thanks to: GreenHeart 
Submitted: September 5th, 2003 

​  A bud is a cluster of single female flowers. 

As you can see in the pic, this cola is composed of several sub-units that are will fill out before reaching maturity. In this phase, the plant has finished the stretching phase and is developing bud sites. 

Depending on the strain, bud development may start in the middle of its flowering period. 






Every single sub-unit is itself a cluster of single female flowers. New Flowers are formed throughout the flowering period. You can see new flower production on top of each sub unit. 

In this pic, you can see (above the yellow lines) where the single sub-units develop new single flowers. You can recognize them because the new pistils in formation have tiny stigmas. 




Let's see a single flower! 
This pic is a pre-flower but is alright for our purposes. It explains how a single female flower formation occurs. 

This single flower is called a pistil and the two hairs coming out of it are called stigmas. Male pollen reaches the stigmas and make their way to the female egg cell which is located inside the pistil. This pollination process will produce the seed. Growers tend to prefer seed-less (non-pollinated) sensimilla! 




Resin is produced on female flowers and on the leaves near them. It is produced by a particular structure called a glandular trichome. 

In this pic you can see on the leaf that resin is produced in some kind of ball over a thin neck. if you have a magnifying glass, you can look in the ball and see color changes (from transparent to white to gold/brown) and determine when resin production and THC % has peaked. Rough handling of buds will break the trichomes off. 



Young pistil. 
Let's see now how a pistil evolves during the flowering period. Above the yellow line you can see a young pistil. It is thin and has white hairs. 









Stipule 
Here is a pic of an older pistil. The body has enlarged. The stigmas are still looking for some pollen. The small leaf under the pistil is called a stipule (Stipules are more evident with pre-flowers.) 









This is probably two or three days later, as you can see hairs are becoming (starting from the top) brown/red. Probably at this stage it can still receive male pollen. 








In this pic I've underlined three pistils that are as mature as the one in the previous pic (more or less). Other stigmas have dried up, probably due to rain and wind. In these conditions some stigmas lose their vitality and start to dry and to become brown/red. This is not a sign of ripening, just a normal event 








On the left of this pic, you can see two pistils fully mature. The stigmas are totally colored and dried. The body of the pistil is now fat and is beginning to lose its turgidity. On the right you can see a cluster with pistils in various stages. 







The pistil after a couple of days. It has lost its turgidity and probably is not receptive to pollen. it is dying. When all 70/80 % of all the pistils of a bud are at this stage, resin production has slowed if not stopped. 










Gradual ripening. 
The maturation of the pistils in a bud is not synchronized but gradual. As you can see in this pic, you have lots of pistils at different stages of development. See the dimension of the bodies. At harvest, you will probably see lots of brown hairs, but also some white at the top of each single sub-unit where the new formed pistils are. 






When stigmas are dried and pistil is dying , the hairs will easily break and fall down. 










>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>



*What is an hermaphrodite?*

An hermaphrodite, or hermie, is a plant of one sex that develops the sexual organs of the other sex. Most commonly, a flowering female plant will develop staminate flowers, though the reverse is also true. Primarily male hermaphrodites are not as well recognized only because few growers let their males reach a point of flowering where the pistillate would be expressed. 

Hermaphrodites are generally viewed with disfavor. First, they will release pollen and ruin a sinsemelia crop, pollinating themselves and all of the other females in the room. Second, the resulting seeds are worthless, because hermaphrodite parents tend to pass on the tendency to their offspring. 

Please note that occassionally specious staminate flowers will appear in the last days of flowering of a female plant. These do not drop pollen and their appearance is not considered evidence of deleterious hermaphroditism. 

Here's an image of a hermaphrodite, specifically a female plant with staminate flowers. 








Hermaphrodite photograph above by Ot1.


    

Hermaphrodite pics above by snoofer





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​


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## dopewear (May 11, 2009)

dang shckle if you cant tell sex after that post... theres no hope for ya lol.


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## Shackleford.R (May 11, 2009)

Very funny d-dub! the sad truth is, i've read all of that. just too damn anxious i guess. after reading that in the grow faq and reading it here now. i've decided i have a few more days before preflower. The areas at the nodes that i'm looking at have some sort of bumps developing. But! nothing clear cut yet as to what sex they truly are. Pics this afternoon...


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## slipperyP (May 11, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> Very funny d-dub! the sad truth is, i've read all of that. just too damn anxious i guess. after reading that in the grow faq and reading it here now. i've decided i have a few more days before preflower. The areas at the nodes that i'm looking at have some sort of bumps developing. But! nothing clear cut yet as to what sex they truly are. Pics this afternoon...



They'll show Shack...I was waiting and waiting...then I wasn't looking for a second and bam.


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## GypsyBush (May 11, 2009)

Yup yup... they'll show... when they are there...lol...

Shack, now I feel like a dumbass...

I brought you a bunch of stuff you already knew... sorry...

But by the way you spoke, it seemsed that you had never even thought about the subject..

My advice to you is to have a little more confidence in yourself..

None of this stuff is brain surgery... and you are doing really good...

You actually ask BEFORE you do shit.. most newbs ask how to fix their fuck ups..lol....

So keep at it.. and remember, if it took a genius to grow pot, there would be 2 growers in the World...lol..

Cheers Bro!


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## Shackleford.R (May 12, 2009)

Picture update in the works.


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## notpatient (May 12, 2009)

waterfarm/hybrid waterfarm crew thats an awesome Idea, I second that notion DO IT DO IT


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## dopewear (May 12, 2009)

get those pics up!


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## Shackleford.R (May 12, 2009)

What the hell, why not share some pointless photos??


*Pic 1* a view from outside the grow room, curtain hangs between closet door and the grow space, and for being so thin works surprisingly well as a light barrier during the dark cycle (along with the door shut)

*Pic 2* a shot of the top of the new light wing (not really a hood) with my new air purifier sitting up top
here is what the manufacturer has to say about it...
*
Captures Airborne Allergens*
HEPA filter captures 99.97% of airborne particles such as household dust, pet dander, mold spores and plant pollens

*Fights Odors
*Helps to remove smoke and odors from the air

*Quiet Operation
*Optional speed settings allow for quiet operation when run on low

*Multiple stages of filtration include:
**Charcoal*  Removes odors and smoke
*HEPA*  captures 99.97% of particles 
*PCO filter*  Captures and dissolves airborne bacteria and mold
*Ionizer*  Emits small amount of negative ions to freshen the air
*UV Light Tube *- Works with filters to destroy germs

*Pic 3* view under the light wing, look at that beastly 125 W CFL and those beautiful shrubby ladies  (still got the fingers crossed) you may or may not notice, the CFL clamps i used to have mounted on the waterfarm, have been reduced to one bulb each and are attached at the corners of the wing, to add some spectrum to the area 2-2700k 2-6500k

 now if only these damn things would flower!!


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## dopewear (May 12, 2009)

shackle those look ultra sexy! digging the hood and everything! keep it up. they will flower soon even good sir but for now be patient.


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## Shackleford.R (May 12, 2009)

dopewear said:


> shakle those are sexy plants i may turn to you for hydro advice come my next grow(itll be in a cabinet). +rep for the closet set up i wish i could do one.


just thought i'd post that Mr. "I'm growing outdoor now because i think im a badass"


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## dopewear (May 12, 2009)

lol naw i just figure hey we not its summer... everyone else is doing it, i dont want to be left out. check my indoor grow mmm


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## Shackleford.R (May 13, 2009)

I've read everything everyone has to say about sexing/preflower, and now it all comes down to one question...

Does a female

look like a male

BEFORE the pistils appear?

One of my kids has what could be balls, or could be pre-pistil action... all others have yet to show any sign of sex.


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## GypsyBush (May 13, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> Does a female
> 
> look like a male
> 
> ...


Good question!

The answer is simple..

YES!

MALES AND FEMALES LOOK VERY MUCH ALIKE BEFORE THEY FULLY DEVELOP....

Many females have been killed because a bump appeared without hairs...

The hairs will come.....


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## GypsyBush (May 13, 2009)

wanna see some bud porn?

Hang on to your hat...lol..

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/167596-gypsys-picture-depot-15.html


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## Shackleford.R (May 13, 2009)

TWO CONFIRMED FEMALES!!
Still awaiting ANY signs from the other 3... and in better news, the females are the topped plants! 4 colas! 

Big post this weekend, photos, new light schedule, new nute recipe. Probably a post or two before then, but big one this weekend.


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## dopewear (May 13, 2009)

congrats on the females dude... treat them well!


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## GypsyBush (May 13, 2009)

I wanna see a picture...lol...


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## Shackleford.R (May 13, 2009)

haha no way gypsy! i'll post some eventually, the one i wasn't sure about has two TINY greenish-white pistils, not the green stem that has always been there, but two new growths.

and another its just obvious, the top of the stem has two BIG white hairs poking out.

but i'll get on the pictures tomorrow, maybe, or this weekend, for sure.


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## Shackleford.R (May 13, 2009)

haha no way gypsy! i'll post some eventually, the one i wasn't sure about has two TINY greenish-white pistils, not the green stem that has always been there, but two new growths.

and another its just obvious, the top of the stem has two BIG white hairs poking out.

but i'll get on the pictures tomorrow, maybe, or this weekend, for sure.


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## slipperyP (May 13, 2009)

congrats on the girls....I'm still waiting on one to show....keep up the good work


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## Shackleford.R (May 14, 2009)

Well, well, well... a timely photo update if I must say.
Took the kids out of the closet for a little maintenance, i.e. hydro-peroxide/scrub reservoir, spring water rinse on the roots, de-salting the drip ring, fresh nutrients, etc...

Normally I do this in the garage, but with summer approaching its too damn hot, so the action went down in the kitchen... maybe it was the lighting, or something in the air, BUT! the kids (3/5 ladies presumably) looked beautiful!!

Feast your eyes on "Laura Bush" (*pic 1*)








She is lovely isn't she? 5 plants total in the farm, and my oh my is it beautiful.

Mini SOG anyone??? (*pic 2*)






If all goes well, and I do end up with the minimum, 3 presumed females... anyone have a guess at the yield??


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## GypsyBush (May 14, 2009)

HOLY SHIT SHACK!!!!

THEY LOOK AWSOME!!!!

I'm working on an update for my journal, but I'll be back...

Way to go Dude!!! You should be proud!!!

+rep if it lets me...lol...


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## Shackleford.R (May 14, 2009)

so if/when it comes to ridding myself of males... can i cut the main stem, and leave the root ball? its a whole cluster fuck of roots under the brown planter bucket. i don't know that i could detangle the roots of the (possible) males efficiently, without destroying the females root systems.


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## GypsyBush (May 14, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> so if/when it comes to ridding myself of males...


Oh Boy... 

Light up the incense...

Say a few prayers...

Worship every Deity that you think you can appease...

You are goiung to need some LUCK on this one...

I hate to say it, but A LOT OF PEOPLE will be saying I told you so if you have a male...



Shackleford.R said:


> can i cut the main stem, and leave the root ball?


About your only option.... other than de-tangling, and risking a lot of damage to your other girls health...




Shackleford.R said:


> its a whole cluster fuck of roots under the brown planter bucket.


And THAT is the reason everyone TOLD YOU not to put more than one pant per pot, it causes problems...




Shackleford.R said:


> i don't know that i could detangle the roots of the (possible) males efficiently, without destroying the females root systems.


I don;t know what to tell you...

ANY little bit of root matter left )believe me, you will have lots!!!) will start to decay..

That's called ROT...

And having rotting roots in your root zone, call very quickly lead to ROOT ROT ALL OVER EVERY ROOT...

I suggest you read up an enzymes, that will help take care of the dead roots in a safe manner...

I use hygrozyme, with the thought that I re-use hydroton, and there's always bits of root on it...and IN it...

I am not sure it works or if I am wasting my 40 bucks a res, but I do have healthy roots...

Now.. I have a 200 gallon res, and I have bits...

You have a little res and you are talking about leaving up to 1/4 of the root mass there to rot...

I am not sure...

I have de-tangled roots before on my DWC, but it was a PIAN IN THE ASS that TOOK A LONG ASS TIME... and I ALWAYS DAMAGED THE ROOTS.... EVERY SINGLE TIME I HAVE DONE IT...

Now.. I have never killed a plant by doing it...

But that's me... I am extremely careful, and I have very good dexterity...

A clumsy or impatient person won;t last 5 minutes...lol...

Oh boy...

I hoe they're all girls...

OR...

OR...

If you do have males, you could leave them and allow them to pollinate...

Having your own seeds for the next (1 plant per pot) grow would be a really cool thing that very few newbs can say they did...

I would be really considering that option if I were you...

Anyways..

Sorry to be the messenger of Doom and Gloom, but you did bring onto yourself this time... should have listened...lol...

Cheers Bro!!!


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## grow space (May 14, 2009)

nice-really pro bro-
keep up the good work.


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## Shackleford.R (May 14, 2009)

I have a possible solution.. clearly cutting away the entire plant will lead to the death of the roots... what if i were to cut just above the first node... if i could limit myself to ONE node of male growth, could i not then manage the pollen sacs that would grow? painstakingly removing each growth as it appears by hand? possible the plant being that short wouldn't allow for pollen sac development?? i have utterly high hopes that all five are females... mainly because i'm a hopeful person, and i've been really luck thus far in this grow, and i've been having a good day today, so optimistic thinking is still realistic... lot of commas lol

i'm done now, everyones thoughts?


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## GypsyBush (May 14, 2009)

I don;t know what to say...

I am not going to sit here and tell you that you CAN"T do something...

But at the same time...

You are talking about pro-creation.. survival of the species...

Shit man.. I have seen plenty of grows that have NO MALES get seeds...

Your chances of beating Mother Nature are small..

If you have a male, I don't care how much or how often you watch it, a ball will pop...

And then my friend... that's millions of poles particles going EVERYWHERE... "cause that's what they were DESIGNED to do... spread and pollinate...

I would suggest just admitting defeat, and turning it into a really neat project...

That way, you will not kill your plants, nor be disappointed when there's seeds... you planned it...

Just my opinion... go for it from the get go... and you will have some breeding experience...

You should read some of SubCool's breeding threads...

FDD has one or two on males and breeding too...

Good Shit..!!!

Cheers mate... and don't be discouraged, you are doing great... if only you listened..lol...


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## Shackleford.R (May 14, 2009)

bump bump bump


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## Shackleford.R (May 15, 2009)

I'm losing sight of the forest through the trees, as they say.. pun intended i suppose. As bushy and lovely as my kids are, I heavily inspect twice daily (since monday) for preflowers. Until today I was convinced I was seeing about 2 females for sure. Upon today's inspection I realized everything I thought to be preflowers are just new growth. haha! I was SO utterly convinced.. 
"I'm not like the other noobs, I'll be able to tell the difference."
Oh how wrong I was. I choose to say fuck it. I was excited at the thought they were showing sex, but now that it's still up in the air it keeps hope alive that all 5 will shoot pistils at the same time, and rest my fears of removing males from the same system. (A sad future may very well face)

Point of this story....
I went ahead and did the 12/12 switch today, lights will be shutting off today 6:00 PM approximately 1 hour and 32 minutes. Hopefully after this weekend of new light cycle, as well as a reduced of amount of FloraGro and increased amounts of FloraBloom (as per the GH Flora series feeding schedule, transition recipe) the ladies will shine through! 

For now, I remain hopeful and at the same time anxious. Leave your thoughts and funny pictures. I don't think I'll be doing any grow updates for the weekend, so why not share funny photos with me. That sounds good, come Monday however! ALL business.


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## MrAlex (May 17, 2009)

Your girls look really good man... nice ghetto AG set up .... lol



+ REP


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## Shackleford.R (May 17, 2009)

or a weekend of 12/12 lighting, one lady and one male.. definite female, i saw the hairs for the first time!! haha ACTUAL white hair like things sticking out of the other thing, with the whats-a-doozie and whats-its-names. You know?

Anyway, i spotted a female, and what could be an early pollen sac on another kiddo, still waiting on the other 3 to show me something. I'll give them a few more days to develop, then i'll take some dirty pictures of their private parts.

This post is bizarre, i am in some kind of mood today. Time to watch a shit jim carrey movie.

 and happy growing


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## Shackleford.R (May 17, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Just my opinion... go for it from the get go... and you will have some breeding experience...
> 
> You should read some of SubCool's breeding threads...
> 
> ...


I'm taking your words to heart gypsy. The plan is to cut back the inevitable males, to limit the amount of pollen they spread, the hope is that the pollen sacs will pollinate the lower nodes/bud sites, and leave the colas relatively less pollinated. I like the way this strain grows, it seems there are multiple strains growing, hopefully i will get a nice indica/sativa blend for my AeroGarden grow i have planned after this one. I already have some bagseed lying around, BUT these will be MY seeds, and i can maybe do some work nurturing my own strain.

Now i know there is little to nothing that can be done to genetics, this plant is THIS plant and can never be any OTHER plant. But... its MY plant haha, my vintage, blah blah... so yes its now becoming a genetics experiment. So what if it has some seeds... doesn't mean i can't dry the bud and smoke like any other....

Right?! if you grow for the sake of breeding how does that work?! Anyone friends with a breeder/grower? If so, feel free to pimp out my thread, could use the fresh blood. haha

 and happy growing


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## slipperyP (May 17, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> I'm taking your words to heart gypsy. The plan is to cut back the inevitable males, to limit the amount of pollen they spread, the hope is that the pollen sacs will pollinate the lower nodes/bud sites, and leave the colas relatively less pollinated. I like the way this strain grows, it seems there are multiple strains growing, hopefully i will get a nice indica/sativa blend for my AeroGarden grow i have planned after this one. I already have some bagseed lying around, BUT these will be MY seeds, and i can maybe do some work nurturing my own strain.
> 
> Now i know there is little to nothing that can be done to genetics, this plant is THIS plant and can never be any OTHER plant. But... its MY plant haha, my vintage, blah blah... so yes its now becoming a genetics experiment. So what if it has some seeds... doesn't mean i can't dry the bud and smoke like any other....
> 
> ...


I'm starting here Shack...I am doing the same as you so I hope you can attract some help and make a kick ass breeding journal.

It is the FAQ from the site Breeding Section

https://www.rollitup.org/view.php?pg=faq&cmd=category&id=87


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## Shackleford.R (May 18, 2009)

YO! Quick plug, I'm starting up an AeroGarden grow! Follow the link in my signature.. or click *here!*


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## Shackleford.R (May 20, 2009)

Well not really.... 4 out of 5 of Laura's plants are gone. I got anxious, and none of the plants were sexing but one! One of them showed pistils, so i kept the pretty young lady. Surprisingly uprooting the plants was NOT as difficult as anticipated. Granted there were a few chunks of rootball left under the hydrotron container. Moving right along, the plant selected for survival was placed in a glass of pH'd water, and one of my airstones from my AG Grow Mod Thread Journal Thing.... So anyway, while the young lady bubbled/rinsed away other crap/hydrotron/roots of fallen brethren, etc. I cleaned the hydrotron thoroughly as i should have prior to starting the grow to begin with!! Only this time I had to pick pieces of root out of the mix. With that done... blah blah... i'm left with a lone woman standing in the center of it all... On that note, the lone woman was also slightly abused, she's got a bit of a ghetto gangsta lean on her now.

Now with all that said... 

I MAY HAVE REPLANTED THE WRONG PLANT!!! AGH!!! I'm too annoyed and stressed with the whole ordeal. I've learned a lesson if nothing else, haha.... maybe DON'T start with such high hopes your first time out the gate. However! If i am correct about this being wrong plant, it hasn't shown signs of sex, so i either have a female or i'm back where i started... I feel like such a fool.. But given my situation something had to be done. I had the balls to do it if nothing else... the way I look at it, there will always be more seed, more water, and more nutrients for the next grow... and like i said, i think its the right one... i don't know, i'm drained and have been making bad decisions all day long.. haha

this is the strangest entry yet... now allow me to bend over and take the raping i deserve for such a radical decision so suddenly.

Attached are some shots of the lovely roots system that had developed, as well as one of Laura.


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## GypsyBush (May 20, 2009)

Well...

I am just really glad that you are not giving up!!!

I started with an AG, and was very successful with it..!!!

I wish you all the best!!!

GB.


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## Shackleford.R (May 25, 2009)

Hellooooooo RIU!! Just got in from a weekend long camping trip, expect a decent update later this evening, possibly tomorrow.


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## dopewear (May 25, 2009)

looking forward to it shack!


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## Shackleford.R (May 27, 2009)

dopewear said:


> looking forward to it shack!


Hooray! and.. Success! The transplant is finally taking! So after the horror movie scene in my past update, ripping up the plants, the lone soldier "Laura" has taken root. She finally got a chance to take a drink, after what appears to be a dry time for her. A close look at her roots will tell you that she hadn't hit the res like her 4 deceased friends. Her roots were still lurking around in the clay pebbles, and with the other plants long roots drinking from the res, she was quite the thirsty girl. 

(Alright! Enough bizarre, father... daughter... friends.... creepy sounding talk)

So the roots now have grabbed hold well in the clay pebble, no more gangsta lean. She's standing tall, and the limbs are nice and perky. The only sag left is the branches with the large fan leaves, they're just too weak to support the leaves almost. 

Now for my somewhat major concern, if you've been following this thread/journal you will undoubtedly know that I began a 12/12 light cycle, nearly 2 weeks ago. To date... there has been NO sign of sex whatsoever, I thought I spotted female preflowers, well apparently not. It was my understanding that granted 12/12 takes awhile to force signs of sex before the plants maturity date, it will do so. So with that said....

Give it more time 12/12

or

Jump back to a spring schedule 16/8 or 18/6 (to give her the veg time she apparently wants)

That is the crossroads I now find myself stuck. Any input or tale of your plants and ladies are welcome. As a final note, I'm ordering seeds for my AeroGrow soon, Attitude seedbank or Worldwide seedbank ? ? ? Looking for the best stealth, willing to pay for it!

Thanks

 and


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## Shackleford.R (May 27, 2009)

what happened to everybody?? any thoughts on my lack of flowers?? BUMP!


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## GypsyBush (May 27, 2009)

uh.... patience...


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## Shackleford.R (May 29, 2009)

Bbbuuummmppp!!!!


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## dopewear (May 29, 2009)

everything sounds great shack im also looking forward to your aerogarden grow! get a pic update in here soon!


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## Shackleford.R (May 30, 2009)

dopewear said:


> everything sounds great shack im also looking forward to your aerogarden grow! get a pic update in here soon!


Yeah i guess everything is going well enough.. the plant isn't dead... it's still growing new leaves... JUST NOT GROWING ANY DAMN POT!! haha. seriously, when is this mofo start to grow pot!?

i get some pics up later, just woke up and don't feel like dealing with it. please tell me i'm not the only one that checks this before their email in the morning?


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## GypsyBush (May 30, 2009)

You are not alone... 

Hay Shack... have you ever been to my garden? I have a half ass journal of my op... lots of pictures though... 

Link is in the sig if you wanna see what I do...

And just be patient dude... as long as you provide a healthy environment for your girls they will do their thing when they are ready..... no sense in getting a child to try and have babies, you know... she will when she is mature enough... don't pressure here with that "WHERE IS THE DAMN POT?!?!?!" vibe...

Be cool.. and she will treat you nice...


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## Shackleford.R (May 30, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> You are not alone...
> 
> Hay Shack... have you ever been to my garden? I have a half ass journal of my op... lots of pictures though...
> 
> ...


Yes, Gypsy. **kicks dirt at feet**
haha, i'm just anxious and a little confused, most what I have read is that veg usually lasts about a month, and i'm going on a month and a half currently. maybe anxious is the wrong word, concerned fits the bill better. concerned that this is some bizarre strain that is neither male or female, not even hermie... just a plant with leaves that looks like pot. I still pass on the good vibes, check on her 2-3 times a day, talk to her/hot CO2 rich breath all over, mist the leaves... But you're right....

Main reason i'm anxious, if i had to pick one! I want to start my AG grow after the seeds arrive, and don't want to have multiple grows to keep track of (actually my girlfriend doesnt want multiple grows in the house, and thats fair i suppose...) BTW Gypsy... have you checked out my AG thread, its in my sig... i'll look at yours if you look at mine HA!

 and


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## GypsyBush (May 30, 2009)

I'll check it out right now..

Did you know my first indoor grow was in an AG? 

I'll try to dig up some pics for you..

Cheers...


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## Shackleford.R (May 30, 2009)

GYPSY! QUIT SMOKING!! haha you shared with me your AG photos... the clone lollipops. gotta run me and my old lady are grabbing some BBQ


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## "SICC" (May 31, 2009)

how are they doin?


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## Shackleford.R (May 31, 2009)

[QUOTE="SICC";2558540]how are they doin?[/QUOTE]







Not to much report really, Laura is still vegging away. A couple photos for reference about her size. I moved her to the floor in anticipation of the flowering stretch. Looks like she should produce 2-3 main colas. Also a satellite node on the bottom branch, I added the CFL arm lamp I plan to use in the AG grow to this branch, so it has its own dedicated light inches away to encourage vigorous growth and a possible "mini cola". Still waiting for the roots on this girl to hit the res, after the big uprooting, realized this plant is fairly immature by comparison, which could be the blindingly OBVIOUS explanation as to why 12/12 has done nothing to force blooms. I'm going to lengthen the light cycle by one hour through this week, to back to a 16/8 veg light cycle, to encourage some growth in the root zone. Once I see some roots reach to the res then I think it's to start some flowering! Enjoy the photos...













Sorry the quality is kinda shisty... not much going on though, they are bushing finally, no more lean whatsoever, and all growth is strong, no dried/shriveled leaves anymore!!







That is the lamp I added to the lower satellite, AFTER the above photos.

 and


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## "SICC" (May 31, 2009)

lookin good homie, ima top my next grow, get a bunch of kush colas  Bubba to be exact


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 2, 2009)

Not much to share at this point in time.. Plants look about the same as they did in the photo.. that lower node I mentioned is STRONG!! I guess the little personal lamp is exactly what I needed I think I can safely assume to expect a nice nug out of that node, the branch isn't near strong enough to support a "mini-cola". Another branch nearby that is slowly creeping towards the light. I have high hopes for an AWESOME harvest on this plant. Looks like it could be awhile though, still no pre-flower anywhere to be seen on the young lady. Guess she has more growing to do still, hopefully soon through, about 4 or 5 more inches in height and she will be about what I hoped for before flowering. Although she has about 8-10 inches before she's anywhere close to the main CFL hood. (Which by the way is hanging as low as the length chain I have will allow). Node spacing is decent though, given all the CFL's scattered around here, the overhead just gives her something to reach up for later during flower.

That's all for now, I'd post photos, but not much to see. Hope everyone else's grows are going well!

 and


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## MrAlex (Jun 3, 2009)

awesome....


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 6, 2009)

MrAlex said:


> awesome....


Thank you MrAlex. Laura looks lovely standing tall and "strong". (she has a bit of a lean, more root development would help.. more on that in like two seconds) The main shoots are growing nice and strong. Not much to report, just wanted to keep people interested.

I added a 4" ActiveAqua Air Stone Disc, connected to Top Fin XP-60 air pump. Does an AWESOME job aerating the solution. I'm anticipating some explosive growth once the roots hit the res! (I'm guessing about 3 days)

Also new!! My pH and TDS meters came in the mail yesterday. After calibrating them I was able to make the switch from Flora Series, to the FloraNova. I'm using FloraNova Grow and Floralicious Grow currently. All balanced around 5.9 pH and 1280 ppm. Exciting times are ahead!!


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## "SICC" (Jun 6, 2009)

nice man, sounds great, im switching to the GH line for my next grow


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 9, 2009)

Went in for my daily check of the lady, and to my surprise clusters upon clusters of white hairs!! The two tops are pretty well furry up top now!! I did a res change on friday to more veg nutes.. I guess i'll be doing up a transition batch tomorrow, and then by the weekend have full bloom nutrients? Any thoughts on what to do about my nutes at this point??

Photos coming soon!!!

OH HAPPY DAY!!


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## GypsyBush (Jun 9, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> Went in for my daily check of the lady, and to my surprise clusters upon clusters of white hairs!!
> 
> OH HAPPY DAY!!


Congratulations!!!



> Any thoughts on what to do about my nutes at this point??


Yeah! Dump your res, clean everything and fill it up with Bloom nutes...

There is no NEED to do a transition...

You may, if YOU WANT TO... but it is absolutely *not necessary*...

Just my opinion...


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## "SICC" (Jun 10, 2009)

congrats man!


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## MrAlex (Jun 11, 2009)

congrats once again.... How much were those discs they look pretty cool.


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 12, 2009)

RIU servers are back up!! Photo update in 10 minutes!!
(considering a Photo Dump ala Gypsy style)


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 12, 2009)

MrAlex said:


> congrats once again.... How much were those discs they look pretty cool.


Thanks bro! The discs i believe were 20 bucks tops. Not much more than the average "bubble wall" stones, the long stick style air stones. It does an amazing job, almost creates a fountain effect it bubbles so much. Definitely worth the purchase.


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 12, 2009)

Here they are.. the long awaited bud (child) porn. Haha the flowers are very young. But here they are..

Mostly just close ups as proof they are females. They haven't begun to fatten up, so not much to see just yet...

First ONE of the tops...





Can you spot the little white hairs??

Maybe you can here...





Look towards the middle of the photo

Mmm there they are...






So what do you think? Haha, I know not much to see, but in about a week should be more exciting. Also preview my soon to be avatar below...


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 12, 2009)

bump for the hell of it!


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## "SICC" (Jun 12, 2009)

Looks great man, cant wait to see her in full bloom


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## caddyluck (Jun 12, 2009)

Sup Shack! good job man, can't wait to see some pretty flowers


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## GypsyBush (Jun 12, 2009)

nice dude!

Good to see progress


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## MrAlex (Jun 12, 2009)

nice.... hairy little princess. My girls are lookin almost identical to that... the hairs anyway.. not the plant.


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 13, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> Here they are.. the long awaited bud (child) porn. Haha the flowers are very young. But here they are..
> 
> Mostly just close ups as proof they are females. They haven't begun to fatten up, so not much to see just yet...
> 
> ...





SICC said:


> Looks great man, cant wait to see her in full bloom


Thanks SICC! I'm pretty pumped myself. It gets hairier by the hour. Considering FloraNectar by GH later on anybody heard anything?



caddyluck said:


> Sup Shack! good job man, can't wait to see some pretty flowers


Thanks caddyluck, and welcome to the thread! Always nice to have a new reader/personality. Check out my AG grow in my signature



GypsyBush said:


> nice dude!
> 
> Good to see progress


Thank you Gypsy, your help during veg was GREATLY appreciated. Look forward to your advice during flower and through to harvest.



MrAlex said:


> nice.... hairy little princess. My girls are lookin almost identical to that... the hairs anyway.. not the plant.


Yeahhhhhhh!! Its pretty damn furry for sure. I'll be sure to drop by your thread.



So what has anyone heard of GH FloraNectar products?? (either "flavor" i guess)


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## MrAlex (Jun 13, 2009)

never seen them but the labeling is pretty cool... I gotta order some soon. For my next grow..


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## caddyluck (Jun 13, 2009)

My buddy uses the Berry, it's 0-0-1, made up of 17.5% Cane Sugar,5% molasses, 7.5% Malt Extract. It's a sweetener and works really good, we did a comparison and the smell and aroma from the colas was incredible. I would definitly recommend it. He don't go without it now.


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 13, 2009)

caddyluck said:


> My buddy uses the Berry, it's 0-0-1, made up of 17.5% Cane Sugar,5% molasses, 7.5% Malt Extract. It's a sweetener and works really good, we did a comparison and the smell and aroma from the colas was incredible. I would definitly recommend it. He don't go without it now.


Hmm.. the aroma is it berry? or does the sweetener just encourage the natural aromas from the plant? 

Will I get berry or pineapple flavored bud is what i'm trying to say?


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## caddyluck (Jun 13, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> Hmm.. the aroma is it berry? or does the sweetener just encourage the natural aromas from the plant?
> 
> Will I get berry or pineapple flavored bud is what i'm trying to say?


Yes, the aroma is berry smelling, the FloraNectar itself smells soooo good, the pineapple smells more citrus/fruity.


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## MrAlex (Jun 14, 2009)

oh im def. ordering that stuff... if it can really influence smell that much... im all about it!


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## Prot3us1 (Jun 14, 2009)

ooh shack, we have the same ph meter man! 

Let me know about the floranova lol.

Still no pics, for some reason when i try to copy the pics from my camera to my pc they dont work...they are the right size, .jpg but just come up blank....looking into it now. lol

prot


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 14, 2009)

Prot3us1 said:


> ooh shack, we have the same ph meter man!
> 
> Let me know about the floranova lol.
> 
> ...


Protastic! Welcome back! haha i havent seen a post from you in awhile on my thread. (check out my other thread as well aerogarden) That pH meter is AMAZING, i dont know how i got by using the drops now. Its not the fastest, or the easiest to keep calibrated (i have no experience with others but i know how this one works) 

The FloraNova is doing VERY well. Spent the last week of veg using the floranova grow with floralicious grow as well. It just looked really healthy after that week, haha. Also gave it a little stretch and flower started promptly after that. Now i'm on with the floranova bloom with floralicious bloom. They seem to enjoying it rather nicely. Gets furrier by the hour it seems.


On a different note... she has trouble standing up straight. The main stalk sways and leans often, and most branches seem a little "limp". I've been using a silica additive since seed basically, that doesnt seem to be helping anymore.
Any thoughts anyone??


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## GypsyBush (Jun 14, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> On a different note... she has trouble standing up straight. The main stalk sways and leans often, and most branches seem a little "limp". I've been using a silica additive since seed basically, that doesnt seem to be helping anymore.
> Any thoughts anyone??


Do you have a fan blowing on her?

Plants that grow in absolute calm air never develop the "muscles" in the stalk to help her stand up, especially when the buds start to pack on the weight...

Make sure to have a fan blowing around... in my op, I make sure the leaves of every plant "twinkle" in the breeze from the oscilating fans moving around...

You may need to help her with a stick or some string...

Just a little breeze will cause her stalk to strengthen ...

Good Luck...


----------



## GypsyBush (Jun 14, 2009)

and just so we are clear, am not talking about a hurricane in her face... just enough air movement for her to flex them "muscles"..


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 15, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> and just so we are clear, am not talking about a hurricane in her face... just enough air movement for her to flex them "muscles"..


thanks gypsy! haha i figured that might be the case added an oscillating fan today... had it sitting RIGHT outside the closet and just never put it in there. its there now and the breeze is flowing nice


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 15, 2009)

I went into my closet today, after the fans were setup to check temps, its around 78-82 with 43% humidity. While I was standing there I couldn't but notice all these lower nodes with all this beautiful growth and baby preflowers. So many shoots below the main colas. I just couldn't resist.







Knowing that the two main shoots were relatively pliable, and there were close to 4 secondary lower shoots... I had to LST the main colas. I'm now looking at a relatively more even canopy at this point. One of the main shoots had reached in the hood and damaged some leaves. So now it should all grow evenly and hopefully increase the yield a good bit. Any thoughts anyone???


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## Prot3us1 (Jun 15, 2009)

Shack, 
Ya man been moving house and waiting for the net to be connected and stuff, got a new room here, a cellar...pretty handy. All my plants (5) are now on 12/12. Missy is massive. She was very short but had hundreds of leaves, now that shes ben on 12/12 for a few days shes starting to stretch and shes huge man.

Trippy has a lot of weird stuff. Heres her story:

As you know she came out of her seed with 3 milk leaves, and is a triploid. She grew to a few nodes, then stopped growing and started yellowing within a week. I had no idea what was wrong. anyways after careful research and a situation where if i didnt do something she might die, i nuted her...yes from seed within a week I know it sounds like a stupid idea, but she started growing againthe next day. Heres where it gets weird. She has a huge knot now where she stopped growing, and coming out of the knot at a 90 degree angle is a normal plant...2 leaf sets, healthy node spacing etc. Coming up and out of the triploid section she has a FLAT stem. Its not round its flat lol. New growth on the flat side, 3 leaf sets per node. Shes like 2 plants in one.

The others are all looking great, i have an great variety of thin and fat leaves in there, so im very pleased. Now just aiting on sex showing on the last 4, missy already had shown so i know shes a girl.

My thread will be starting up again soon full swing, with a pic update as the first order of business. Just waiting on camera repairs lol.

prot


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## "SICC" (Jun 15, 2009)

she had really taken off, lookin great man


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 15, 2009)

[QUOTE="SICC";2617806]she had really taken off, lookin great man[/QUOTE]

thank you sir!! 
took off in a BIG way!
it seemed like a hasty decision at the time... but now i feel it was in the best interest of the overall harvest.
the way it is now, i think maximizing the potential of this plant.
all the secondary tops are exposed to more light.. as well as few of the even lower tertiary shoots!!

i was ballparking just shy of an ounce dry. at this point i think i can hope for right at an ounce. which is MORE than enough personal for myself... so i guess now the AG clones will just be a bonus!


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## GypsyBush (Jun 15, 2009)

Best of luck dude... I'm rooting for you...

Can you give me a rundown of the lights you have on this grow?...


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 16, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Best of luck dude... I'm rooting for you...
> 
> Can you give me a rundown of the lights you have on this grow?...


since you've been so hopeful i'll do this tonight before i hit the bed...

here is the reflector...





just a standard "bubble" stamped metal wing

here is the bulb...





this is presently the only light source i have

here is the bulb in the reflector...





pretty decent i think

everything i've read and every approach i've had up until now has been with CFL, and as MANY CFL as possible! This bulb is very bright and very high power, so currently its the only one plugged in...

for a good while it was setup like this...





you can see behind the current some of the clamp type fixtures with dual socket CFLs.

Depending on how quick Laura responds to the LST and starts perking up with all her nodes, I may finish this grow with JUST the CFL in the hood. If its still looking meager in a few days, i may clamp the CFLS off to the side and fan them out, rather than hanging down in the picture... sort of increase the "light canopy" so to speak...

im still a newb playing it by ear trying to tweak things...
 goodnight


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## GypsyBush (Jun 16, 2009)

Good night...

But you know I'm gonna suggest more light in the morning, right...?!?!?


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 16, 2009)

Day 7 of flowering is upon us!! Flushing the res and taking some photos later. Check back later this afternoon!


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 16, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Good night...
> 
> But you know I'm gonna suggest more light in the morning, right...?!?!?


and yes i figured you'd say that.. i added a pair of CFLs to the hood.. one at either end, probably going to screw in the Y-sockets to double the lights later.


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## "SICC" (Jun 16, 2009)

Nice man, i like that reflector, i need to get some bigger CFL's


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 16, 2009)

[QUOTE="SICC";2619757]Nice man, i like that reflector, i need to get some bigger CFL's[/QUOTE]

yeah that reflector was the greatest find ever! haha found at the local hydro/grow shop in the "used" equipment section. 14 dollars and 95 cents! it was even wired properly for a self ballasted light, just needed an extension cord!


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 16, 2009)

Uploading and editing... 20 minutes??


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 16, 2009)

Day 7 of flower is drawing to a close (according to Laura) in about 2 hours and 45 minutes. So before that time, I needed to do a res change, check out the air stone, and look over the overall progress of lady Laura..

First things first, the res... Mixed up nutrients, FloraNova Bloom, Floralicious Bloom, Superthrive (we'll see how it goes), and the silica additive... She seems pretty strong and resistant to most stresses, so I figure the superthrive can't (if at all) bother her too much, plus I've heard growers that use it, and properly swear by it.. I only added a total of 4 drops, the recommended does for my res would have been 1/2 tsp but I don't want to push my luck just yet. 

Topped off at 1280 ppm and 5.5 pH.. sound good?

Next I had to make the sure the bubble disk is still doing its thing, and sitting properly.. and for those curious this is what it does to the res...





Now that the roots have FINALLY made the stretch for the res these bubbles/air should have some pretty exciting results. Additionally I adjusted the main drip pump to only 3 times a day. Lights on, mid day, and just before lights off, 15 minutes each. Hoping to encourage the roots downward limiting the watering cycle this way.

Here is an overall shot of Laura as she stands now..





Pretty isn't she??

now for some various shots of tops and branches...
(pics are sort of left to right... haha ask any questions..)































That's all for now.. Time to eat some BBQ!!


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## GypsyBush (Jun 16, 2009)

Your pH should be 5.8 not 5.5... not 6.3... 5.8

And I sooo wish you had a 400 HPS over that girl...

You've got a lot of plant under those little lights...lol...

She looks GREAT Shack!!!


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 16, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Your pH should be 5.8 not 5.5... not 6.3... 5.8


The pH in the waterfarm fluctuates UP like crazy.. never down, always up.. so i start around there in anticipation for the increase... then i balance back it out after a couple days



GyspyBush said:


> And I sooo wish you had a 400 HPS over that girl...
> 
> You've got a lot of plant under those little lights...lol...


What would I expect to pay to get into that range?? That and the current fixture plus two 23W CFL gets the temp to around 82. What would that HPS do to my temps you suppose?



GypsyBush said:


> She looks GREAT Shack!!!


Why thank you Gypsy!!!


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## GypsyBush (Jun 16, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> The pH in the waterfarm fluctuates UP like crazy.. never down, always up.. so i start around there in anticipation for the increase... then i balance back it out after a couple days


I hear you...

That is why bigger containers are better, much more stable...



> What would I expect to pay to get into that range??


HTG has a ballast kit for $55

http://htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=45693

The bulbs is $70 for this one.. there are cheaper and more expensive ones...

http://htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=47266

And you already have a hood...

Or you could go digi... for $184 with bulb...

http://htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=48943

but I would really really consider the cool tube option for an extra $50...



> That and the current fixture plus two 23W CFL gets the temp to around 82.


You OBVIOUSLY do not have adequate ventilation...



> What would that HPS do to my temps you suppose?


IF you set proper ventilation along with the light, it would lower your temps...

Any HID puts out considerable heat, you MUST have a way to get rid of the heat... but that is not mission impossible...

But to answer your question...

Just slapping a 400w in there with no other consideration to ventilation, will probably heat things up a bit..

With that said, I would not be surprised if there was no change... or very little...

HIDs are not the monsters people make them out to be..

And they give you DANK FUCKING NUGS... no airy, fluffy shit...





> Why thank you Gypsy!!!


You are welcome...

You have already come a long ways... I really hope you find your "recipe" soon, so you can just set it on auto pilot and have trouble free, plentiful harvests...


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 16, 2009)

honestly, other than lights... i am on autopilot. haha changing up nutes the tiniest bit (the superthrive was lying around) is just to keep myself interested in the process. i don't know when my next grow will be after this one. so i'm just kinda learning from all this, so that in the future (after legalization) i'll be an awesome commercial grower, haha kidding! but yeah autopilot for sure. i dont think i'm going to go HID because i dont want to modify ventilation, it works for me, it stays CONSTANT 82 during the day, and at night around 75... i'm happy personally. this is what i set out to do, and i'm in it for the long haul.

thanks for the help gypsy, HID is great, but its just not something i want to invest in right now. i've seen some dense harvests with CFL so i'm curious to see how my beastly CFL does.


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## caddyluck (Jun 16, 2009)

looks good so far Shack..........


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## GypsyBush (Jun 16, 2009)

Go with what you know bro...

I'm just pointing out that your g/w will go up considerably with an HPS...

I am not saying you can't do it with CFLs, I know you can because I have done it...

But it is a FACT that an HPS will give you better buds at a cheaper price per gram...

But you are doing awesome and I know you will have a kick ass harvest...

But I also know that if you stick to growing, you will end up with an HPS and wishing you had switched earlier...

But forget me dude... fucking gypsies...!!!

You are doing well

Cheers Bro...


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## Prot3us1 (Jun 17, 2009)

Shack, nice plant bro. Ive just switched to bloom nutes, and potash. Ill be putting up pics today if my cam cooperates. Ill take pics of all the interesting parts of trippy for ya. Shes got pubic hair man.  only 2 white hairs per site! but its still bush.

Ill also be sure to get a good pic of her flat stem, her 2 leaf sub plant and her main 2 leaf standard plant lol..remember she fimed herself into 2 different plants! I didnt touch her with anything, she just decided she didnt know if she wanted to be triploid or normal, so shes both now lol.

Also my bagseed plant is looking bushy as. Check my journal man for the update!


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## usagiakui (Jun 20, 2009)

Prot3us1 said:


> Shack, nice plant bro. Ive just switched to bloom nutes, and potash. Ill be putting up pics today if my cam cooperates. Ill take pics of all the interesting parts of trippy for ya. Shes got pubic hair man.  only 2 white hairs per site! but its still bush.
> 
> Ill also be sure to get a good pic of her flat stem, her 2 leaf sub plant and her main 2 leaf standard plant lol..remember she fimed herself into 2 different plants! I didnt touch her with anything, she just decided she didnt know if she wanted to be triploid or normal, so shes both now lol.
> 
> Also my bagseed plant is looking bushy as. Check my journal man for the update!


Wow, I just spent a good two three hours reading over this thread and wow. I am impressed with what i've gotten out of the information provided so far. But yeah, its been three days already!! Update! I know a person who is getting a WF first thing tommorow cause of the confidence in this thread. Gypsy's a great contributor too!!! I love this thread.. again UPDATE!! 
peace


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 20, 2009)

usagiakui said:


> Wow, I just spent a good two three hours reading over this thread and wow. I am impressed with what i've gotten out of the information provided so far. But yeah, its been three days already!! Update! I know a person who is getting a WF first thing tommorow cause of the confidence in this thread. Gypsy's a great contributor too!!! I love this thread.. again UPDATE!!
> peace


Thanks for the love and welcome to RIU!

Not much to update, just looks a little hairier.. having some trouble with lights though.. I added in some more CFL's which was helpful I can tell the area they cover appreciate it... the problem is by the time i wake up to check on them (been sleeping in late and lights start at 6 AM) some of the leaves have grown into the CFL and damaged/burned themselves. Lost a side shoot of one of the main branches to a damn light bulb! WHERE IS THE JUSTICE!!!

I'll probably be doing a photo update later this week... still looks pretty much the same, Laura is LOVING that bubble disk in her res!


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## usagiakui (Jun 20, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> Thanks for the love and welcome to RIU!
> 
> Not much to update, just looks a little hairier.. having some trouble with lights though.. I added in some more CFL's which was helpful I can tell the area they cover appreciate it... the problem is by the time i wake up to check on them (been sleeping in late and lights start at 6 AM) some of the leaves have grown into the CFL and damaged/burned themselves. Lost a side shoot of one of the main branches to a damn light bulb! WHERE IS THE JUSTICE!!!
> 
> I'll probably be doing a photo update later this week... still looks pretty much the same, Laura is LOVING that bubble disk in her res!



Hey everyone, I just joined and would love to know how to give +rep points.... 

Anyway, I just got back from my local hydroponics store and purchased a Waterfarm "complete kit"!(the one that comes with the hardware, air pump, hose, Hydroton clay pebbles and all three 8 oz nutrient bottles... Yeah, im excited). 


*Pics coming soon* 

I picked up these items to go along with it:

NGW Mylar roll 25ft
GH pH control kit
Hydrion Papers pH test roll dispenser
60-120 gallon dual port air pump (used for $6!!!)
4" disc air stone
NGW Ecolplus small round airstone
10' of 1/4" plastic tubing

*Pics coming soon*

I was wondering what to buy for an EC or PPM meter??? to measure those ppm levels... like a "dissolved solids" meter or nutrient meter..?? hmmm torn, torn. suggestions pls.

Now, what I already have setup right now is:

45"L x 22"W x 60"H of grow space (portion of closet)

Since this is my first time, I germinated 8 old seeds from some great "sinsemilla" (sometimes you'll find one or two in a large quantity... if you're experienced with final products and consuming mass amounts of the final products like I am you'll know that you will come across a seed in a dank BAG every once in a blue moon. anyway sry im high lol) batches that i've been throughout the past couple of years or so.. . I also get them from buddies, too. Always Dank shit. 
Ok so they're good seeds.  
As soon as they were geminated, I planted them into 8 5" black nursery pots. I believe they're all about 2.5L each.

*Pics coming soon*

They sprouted and grew into beautiful babies really quickly and as of now they stand at a WHOPPING 
4". Ha. But hey they grew to that size in a matter of 12 days or so. They love this organic soil, I tell ya!


*Soil*
BIOCANNA BIO Terra Plus (BIOCANNA :: The Bio Solution for growth and bloom ::)
Amendments - very little perlite

*Nutrients*
As of now, excluding the nutes that come with the WF kit, I have BIOCANNA BioVega.
I actually included a 1/4 strength dosage of this in my irragation water for the first time today! (We'll see how they do, i'll keep you posted.)

*Pics coming soon*

*Lights* 
Hydrofarm System Comp Fluorescent 125W Daylight [FLCO125D]
(heres the direct hydrofarm link just in case you arent directly familiar with it: Hydrofarm - Hydrofarm FLCO125D System Comp Fluorescent 125W Day)

8 26w daylight 6100k CFL


For now, since I am using CFL's, i'm not really getting any heat issues at plant level whatsoever.. they love this light. I have the light 2-5 inches from the plants at all times, and I have the 26w twistys on dual sockets that I have mounted onto the Hydrofarm reflector itself so they are adjustable on two different joints it makes sense when you see it (man my camera has water damage )

I also have a Hydrofarm Sunburst 250W HPS/MH Convertible [SBC250]
(Hydrofarm - Hydrofarm SBC250 Sunburst 250W HPS/MH Convertible)
just laying around waiting for flowering time. I know that with this model of reflector I have the capability of coverting to a MH during vegg, but i'd rather not deal with the heat issues for now considering the fact that it gets hotter than hell out here during the summer time (in the SW), of course. SOOooOO, throwing that all aside..

*Climate*
I have the temp at a constant 76F / RH 40-55% at plant level during the day...

At night, the temps drop to as low as 66F / RH 40%.

Plants like it, but im going hydro, yo..

I'm going to cull out the weakset links little by little over the course of this week. I will buy a camera before I decide to cull any at all and ask for opinions and suggestions based upon pics and whatnot. After that, I will rinse off soil and transplant to my WF that will already have pH'ed water running in it.....
airstones and all.... 

WELL, ACTUALLY I was wondering about that. I have heard different things about having the airstone in play during the early stages of vegg growth.. "Early stages" in this case would be classified as: before the roots directly come into contact with Res. water. 
Now what's better, running the 4" disc airstone and all from the get-go OR running only the drip ring while the roots haven't reached the res... or does it even matter.
My guess would be it does really matter as in life or death for the plants, lols, but I would think more aeration and oxygen in the res water at any given point of growth is good. Especially considering that fact that when I was at the actual "hydro store" itself they had a display WF going with the same 4" disc airstone mod I got. He lifted the growing reservoir and all I saw was this whirlwind of bubbles in the solution. It actually increases "visible" circulation in reservoir ROOT MASS, too. 
But hey, i'm just guessing. 
Another thing about the number of plants per Waterfarm... How many plants do YOU reccomended for a ScrOG setup on on Waterfarm?

I wanna know how many I should cull out, or just pick ONE favorite.


I have been reading this forum amongst others for months and months on end. I carefully decided to pick out the forum I wanted to register for. (I dont want to be on every damn forum for parnoia sakes) I chose THIS forum because all of the "high rep, high contributing" peeps don't seem to be assholes and I enjoy that.  So i'm hOping I can get some decent input and suggestions down the road. 

I will keep you updated. I WILL BE POSTING STEP BY STEP PICS ASAP ( camera got wet, buying a new one sometime very very soon... maybe tommorow if i get the chance 
*BUT* my memory card is drying out and by tomorrow I will have uploaded the pics I have already taken. Hence, "*Pics coming soon*")

So yeah, once again.... REP POINTS: HOW DO YOU GIVE EM?

Great thread by the way.. I'm glad I found it.
Thanks for reading! Hope I didn't bore you! Tried to keep it as simple is i could explain it. and im hi. lol 
time to fill in my profile info..
[/QUOTE]


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## MrAlex (Jun 21, 2009)

very stringly looking leaves.... 

awesome growth man.......

and yeah... I skimmed through the rest. Too many goddam post to keep up with.,,


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 21, 2009)

usagiakui said:


> Hey everyone, I just joined and would love to know how to give +rep points....
> 
> Anyway, I just got back from my local hydroponics store and purchased a Waterfarm "complete kit"!(the one that comes with the hardware, air pump, hose, Hydroton clay pebbles and all three 8 oz nutrient bottles... Yeah, im excited).
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

hey man i appreciate you wanting to learn.. but maybe you should start a grow journal of your own.. this is kinda my place for sharing all the info you shared.

haha with that said let me read and i'll get you some info


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## Prot3us1 (Jun 21, 2009)

few pics are up now shack, lol cameras half cooperating.  trippys oddities included.


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 21, 2009)

sounds like you're off to a good start. i wouldn't do multiple plants in on waterfarm like i did though. i did it out of desperation and lack of preparedness. If you're going to take the grow seriously, which it sounds like you are. Get a second waterfarm, add the airstone NOW, it just becomes an annoyance later trying to find an extra bucket to stand your precious plants in while you do a res change and drill the hole in the main unit blah blah, do it now while its easy and there is no plant to get in the way. Once you have you airstones setup (the one disk per unit will do fine) have it running constantly, you can just forget about it... so long as its plugged in and working. (i drilled the hole for mine more or less even with the white level marker on the blue hose on the side.. you'll see it) honestly one plant per waterfarm... what i did was a pain in the ass, and just not the greatest idea in the world. two TOPS! if you really want to stretch your dollar, don't do more than two... because when you get a male, which you probably will... its roots are tangled up with your female, and uprooting the male means trashing your female.

thats all i got for now... your setup sounds pretty good, planned ahead for ventilation... when your start running the hotter 2700k bulbs you'll notice a bit of a spike in heat... ESPECIALLY! if you go HPS for flower, BE READY!! my closet is a good 5-7 degrees warmer during flower, mainly because i didnt plan for it.

thats all i got for now... happy fathers day everyone


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## dopewear (Jun 21, 2009)

sounding great shacklebro keep it up! look forward to some new pics!


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## usagiakui (Jun 21, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> sounds like you're off to a good start. i wouldn't do multiple plants in on waterfarm like i did though. i did it out of desperation and lack of preparedness. If you're going to take the grow seriously, which it sounds like you are. Get a second waterfarm, add the airstone NOW, it just becomes an annoyance later trying to find an extra bucket to stand your precious plants in while you do a res change and drill the hole in the main unit blah blah, do it now while its easy and there is no plant to get in the way. Once you have you airstones setup (the one disk per unit will do fine) have it running constantly, you can just forget about it... so long as its plugged in and working. (i drilled the hole for mine more or less even with the white level marker on the blue hose on the side.. you'll see it) honestly one plant per waterfarm... what i did was a pain in the ass, and just not the greatest idea in the world. two TOPS! if you really want to stretch your dollar, don't do more than two... because when you get a male, which you probably will... its roots are tangled up with your female, and uprooting the male means trashing your female.
> 
> thats all i got for now... your setup sounds pretty good, planned ahead for ventilation... when your start running the hotter 2700k bulbs you'll notice a bit of a spike in heat... ESPECIALLY! if you go HPS for flower, BE READY!! my closet is a good 5-7 degrees warmer during flower, mainly because i didnt plan for it.
> 
> thats all i got for now... happy fathers day everyone


Hey man, thanks for replying again.. As soon as I posted I realized I should have started a grow journal thread instead lol... here we go: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/205727-waterfarm-closet-grow-first-grow-cfls-250w-hps.html

see ya!


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 22, 2009)

Not much to share... Laura seems to be enjoy the dark, richness that is FloraNova.. here's some pics! More hairs everyday!





































that's all for now.. here's hoping for some more growth soon!!


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## dopewear (Jun 22, 2009)

shack laura looks amazing!shes passed my 2 weeks status! i can wait to see it at 1 month its going to be off the hook! ima check your aero grow now!


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## howak47 (Jun 24, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> Not much to share... Laura seems to be enjoy the dark, richness that is FloraNova.. here's some pics! More hairs everyday!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 damn man those girls are lookin real good!stop by my grow when u get a chancekeep it up


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 24, 2009)

howak47 said:


> damn man those girls are lookin real good!stop by my grow when u get a chancekeep it up


you say girlS when it fact it is one lonely lady. she branched like crazy though, so i hope for an awesome yield!



dopewear said:


> shack laura looks amazing!shes passed my 2 weeks status! i can wait to see it at 1 month its going to be off the hook! ima check your aero grow now!


thanks d-dub. you seem like you have quite the harvest coming up on that PC grow of yours congrats!! like a half you'd say??


----------



## howak47 (Jun 24, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> you say girlS when it fact it is one lonely lady. she branched like crazy though, so i hope for an awesome yield!
> 
> HOLY SHIT THATS JUST 1 PLANT?


----------



## Shackleford.R (Jun 24, 2009)

howak47 said:


> HOLY SHIT THATS JUST 1 PLANT?


haha yep!! started out as 5 then i left myself with the one for sake of not overgrowing the container. check back a few pages if you're still in disbelief. this is what happen when you veg a giant sativa in a closet in for too long. haha


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## howak47 (Jun 24, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> haha yep!! started out as 5 then i left myself with the one for sake of not overgrowing the container. check back a few pages if you're still in disbelief. this is what happen when you veg a giant sativa in a closet in for too long. haha


 i just looked back damn man thats huge haha!!!! lookin real good do u know a good link for learning the scrog method? +rep


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 24, 2009)

yes howak i do!! haha i just can't remember it... look through my journal (the first 10 pages for sure... maybe 8??) something about topping, fim, and uh LST... makes mention of the scrog method. i gotta get going tonight, but i do actually have an AWESOME non-RIU link saved on another computer about SCRoG that goes into GREAT detail.. i'll post it up tomorrow.


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 25, 2009)

howak47 said:


> i just looked back damn man thats huge haha!!!! lookin real good do u know a good link for learning the scrog method? +rep


alright sir i got you some links!! the first two are RIU threads and they gave you a little pre-SCRoG knowledge, some skills you're going to need to SCRoG (by the way, I'm an accidental SCRoGger, you'll notice i have no screen haha, just had to train to make room) at any rate...

Everything you need to know about LST/FIM/Topping by Growman3666

Absolute Stealth SCRoG by Botanist Bob

second link is a grow journal, but he seems to know what he's doing. its his first scrog as well, so it would probably be a good thread for learning.

final link is just something i found through Google..

The SCRoG Technique from CannaStats


hope these links help you out!


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## caddyluck (Jun 25, 2009)

wow, hells yeah Shack, keep up the good work buddy!


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 27, 2009)

Not much to report... still flowering, still standing, still eating... i see what gypsy means... they just keep doing their thing!!!

I am on Day 18 of flower, and don't see much bulking yet, should i expect more bulk at this time???

Nutrients are as follows:

2 gal Distilled Water
FloraNova Bloom - 20 mL
Floralicious Bloom - 2 tsp
Superthrive - 1 mL
Dyna ProTekt - 1 tsp

pH - 5.8
ppm - 784??
i'm thinking my ppm meter might need some calibration of some kind. all of its readings come in right around HALF of what they should be. according the GH feeding chart i should be about 1580 ppm, so 784 is roughly 1580.. any thoughts??

heres some bud photos... as well as a pic of my AMAZING support wraps!! haha 


PS
RIU users weren't lying sativas STRETCH when they flower... i'll have to force flower on the AG clones PRONTO!!!


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## lurkmaster (Jun 27, 2009)

Looks good to me man, if its a sativa 12-14 week flowering wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities.

This should be some killer smoke..

And yea if those clones are from this plant throw them into 12/12 ASAP.


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## growman3666 (Jun 28, 2009)

what a transformation shack!!
looks to be 100% sativa man,
you should be in for the long haul but it will all pay off i guarentee it


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 28, 2009)

lurkmaster said:


> Looks good to me man, if its a sativa 12-14 week flowering wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities.
> 
> This should be some killer smoke..
> 
> And yea if those clones are from this plant throw them into 12/12 ASAP.


so... you looking for a stable 100% sativa strain??


----------



## howak47 (Jun 28, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> alright sir i got you some links!! the first two are RIU threads and they gave you a little pre-SCRoG knowledge, some skills you're going to need to SCRoG (by the way, I'm an accidental SCRoGger, you'll notice i have no screen haha, just had to train to make room) at any rate...
> 
> Everything you need to know about LST/FIM/Topping by Growman3666
> 
> ...


 hey man thanks for the info iam just now seeing the link hahaha. thanks again +REP


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 28, 2009)

howak47 said:


> hey man thanks for the info iam just now seeing the link hahaha. thanks again +REP


empty promises.. haha. you've already rep'd me spread the love!! (as RIU would say)


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## howak47 (Jun 28, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> empty promises.. haha. you've already rep'd me spread the love!! (as RIU would say)


 yea i just relized that!!!!!!! iam stoned off of a bowl of purp right now!!!!lololo


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## Prot3us1 (Jun 30, 2009)

Shack! More pics up n my thread my man. I dunno if you mind pics being posted here bro so I wont post any, but just head to the newest post on my thread man, trich pics up and bud porn from 4 different young ladies!

so yea man, ive got my camera all fixed now! trying to get back into the swing of things. Ill have to hvea look at the scrog stuff for my next grow man, definitely the way i want to go next time.

SO yea man, the pics show all my plants, all clearly female with buds forming great. Tomorrow ill do a good update, now that the camera is fixed but for now teres just random shots from the cellar.

prot


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## Shackleford.R (Jun 30, 2009)

the next res change we introduce Liquid Koolbloom.


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 3, 2009)

Did a res change today, she's a thirsty girl, goes through 2.5 gallons in 7 days!!

I picked up FloraNectar and Liquid KoolBloom, both of which got added today, along with FloraNova Bloom and FloraLicious Bloom. I have a feeling this is going to be QUITE the harvest, 1 ounce MINIMUM!! Hopefully with the addition of KoolBloom and FloraNectar it will add some weight to the finished product. Speaking of which, thats why no photos, she hasn't changed all that much, not bulking up yet. She's taking her time a "late bloomer" if you will.

the addition of the KoolBloom is AMAZING! 100 ppm/mL roughly is my estimate. So i'm flowering wtih 1500 ppm the rest of the way!!

Only issue is all the damn buffers in these nutrients and additives!! My pH is hovering right at 5.1 even after about 15 drops of pH UP (to 2 gallons of water). 
Going to let her sit for the night and check pH tomorrow. Hopefully she will have adjusted the pH a bit (she always does!!) she usually coasts the pH up a good bit.

That's all for now!!


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## FoxCompany426 (Jul 3, 2009)

Man, I don't think I've even posted in this thread. Oh well, I'm here now. Looking good though!


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 3, 2009)

FoxCompany426 said:


> Man, I don't think I've even posted in this thread. Oh well, I'm here now. Looking good though!


glad to have you here my friend!


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 4, 2009)

Laura is happy, I'm happy 







She is HUGE! best guess is about 4 feet across, 2-3 feet from top of the pot to the tallest branch. My personal (first ever) grow has turned into a bush! 





































All these branches may end up tied up for support!! as many exposed budsites on each branch... should all grow into long colas!! I count at least 5 branches like this!!


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 5, 2009)

so uh... a little gypsy told me i might want to prune this Wild Child... anybody got any thoughts where to start??? the lower like 1/6 of the plant already has a bunch of wild branches trimmed (which became clones in another grow) now my main concern is all the dense shade in the center of the plant... what do i trim and what do i *not* trim??


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 6, 2009)

scratch that.. not pruning, at this point in flower i don't want to stress the plant taking away ANY leaf surface, also there isn't a single node or bud site that *doesn't* look as though its going to bulk into popcorn nugs, which is ok by me!!

something odd though, seems like most of the leaves that have grown since flower began are 3-tipped, instead of 5 or 7... is that because the lack of veg nutrients and more bloom nutrients... or is this a light issue???

thoughts or words please!!

don't seem to be getting my usual traffic (same goes for the other grow)


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## Prot3us1 (Jul 7, 2009)

shack ,
hey man. If its a personal grow id say keep the popcorn nugs..if you had a tree with a pound and a half per cola, then sure you dont want to mess around with 1 - 2 gram (Wet) nugs...but for me (expecting maybe an oz per plant) popcorn nugs are still gold lol.

I trimmed one plant, didnt trim the others...the one i trimmed is puting on heavy weight up the top now for sure, but i think if i kepthe smaler ones thesme amount of weight would hv ben put on..but over the whole plant...plus more leaves = more growth.

Im no expert, first grow and all lol, i think lollipoping and bush both have their perks and bad sides. 

My vote is with dont prune. Unless you want to show off your huge top nuggets lol.

prot


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 9, 2009)

only kidding, no cause for concern. i was upset with Laura, she was growing out of control and reaching off to the darkest depths of the closet... so... I CHOPPED THAT BITCH!! haha







all i did was cut back the two main shoots that had shot off to the left and right. also took down quite a few lower branches, and a few leafs that were hanging there sadly.

and just for the hell of it and to help with the light penetration issues...







this is admittedly a slightly somewhat experimental lighting game i'm playing... but i'm curious if you have a bush, and you're using CFL does putting them underneath help with penetration??

also I had some leftovers from the AG cab build...











added some of the car sunshade to either side... made it a few degrees warmer, so i kicked the fans up a good bit. seems happy!!

i'm considering borrowing one of this guys ideas... Micro Medical Cab Bag seed 125W CFL - Lots of pics

i like his coke bottle CO2 i see a lot of other growers using them.. he runs a little hose from the cap to the base of the plant, pretty clever. usually just see them left open. i'm considering a similar setup for both of my grows, and big 2 liter soda bottle with hoses intertwined around this big shrub grow. for the AG, just a small 1 liter bottle (like you get from a vending machine... and in that one i might just leave the cap off...

thoughts and words??


Shack


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 10, 2009)

so i'm around 4 weeks to the day of flower, and no real signs of bulking yet... is that a sativa for you? i was told when she went into flower that i was "in for the long haul" is this what they were referring to???


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 13, 2009)

my game has fallen off.. i don't keep anybody updated anymore!! i've been spending too much time with my AeroGarden thread. Anyhow, not much to report, she's flowering steadily, really am in for the long haul. looking forward to some sweet nugs off Laura. 

keeping her at 1500 ppm and 5.9 pH with FloraNova bloom, liquid koolbloom, floarlicious plus, and floranectar
she's happy, and responded well to the cutting back. the lower limbs are REALLY starting to bulk, so i guess given some time the upper nodes will be getting some of that love.

post some pics tomorrow...

now... about a scope?? i figure i have most DEFINITELY 4 more weeks of flower before i even THINK about harvesting. so i have some time.. anyhow when should i see trichs? are they visible to the naked eye? do i check them daily once they appear?? fill me in RIU!!!


Shack


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## Prot3us1 (Jul 13, 2009)

hey shack!

Good to see you have remembered us over here too lol.

You can see them with the naked eye, looks like frost lol. Look closer and you will see the balls at the end swell up too, not the first day though..

On missy it looks like someone powdered her with fine white powder. On the strains i paid for (double gum, silver haze) I can actually SEE where the trich has come out of the leaf, it looks like the leaf has goose bumps (when ur hair stands on end and you get little bumps all over your skin) lol not sure if you call it that same thing over there haha..

yea man, all of my plants are frosting up now good lol, ill go take pics now, upload tomorrow morning lol...

have a good one bro.

Prot


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 14, 2009)

le bump kiss-ass


Shack


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 15, 2009)

Here are some shots of Lady Laura in flower.. Best shots are posted here, the rest are attachments..











the photos marked "trouble in paradise" i'm concerned something is going on, the leaf tips are turning a bit blackish and dry, and starting to shrivel a bit.. just noticed that they aren't labeled like i thought, the last two photos are the ones i'm referring to.

thoughts?? comments?? concerns?? questions??


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Jul 15, 2009)

I saw this and thought of you...

...

Nice pics Shack..

And sorry I can't help with a diagnose... I know shit about that...

If it was mine and thought there was trouble though, I would empty the res.. clean everything, flush with straight water for a bit and then beck off on the nutes a couple hundred PPM...

But that's me.. 

I really don't know ANYTHING about deficiencies or plant problems... in the sog I just replaced them...


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## purplebud27 (Jul 15, 2009)

Nice sativa man hope you get some killer bud


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## lurkmaster (Jul 15, 2009)

purplebud27 said:


> Nice sativa man hope you get some killer bud


Do you have any idea what you are even talking about?

Sativas are all about the smoke, by nature they produce wispy, airy buds...


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 15, 2009)

purplebud27 said:


> Nice sativa man hope you get some killer bud


thanks man, encouragement like that keeps this grow going!!
just hope i ripen/flush/harvest at the right time for this baby!!




lurkmaster said:


> Do you have any idea what you are even talking about?
> 
> Sativas are all about the smoke, by nature they produce wispy, airy buds...


this is not a thread for accusations! mind your manners lurk!

with that said, i'm expecting airy, wispy buds haha..
not a heavy producer that and i'm growing CFL.


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 16, 2009)

my mind is made up... tomorrow a 2-3 liter bottle, 1/2 full of water/yeast/sugar is going in the closet. i'm considering using some air tubing and creating a closed loop that is intertwined in the branches to distribute the CO2 throughout the plant. hopefully it helps given my semi-lack of lighting options and definite surplus of heat!


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## howak47 (Jul 17, 2009)

lookin damn good man!!!!! keep it up and u will be smokin sum dank soon!!!!!i just posted sum new pics on my thread check em out https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/205127-zona-mid-aero-cfl-grow-20.html


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 19, 2009)

tragedy strikes!! definitely some deficiency problems. leaves a curling under and they are splotchy. i went out of town for a day,my bro was watching the dogs while i was gone and texted me bad news. got home tonight after lights out, so i'll get a picture tomorrow. they don't look well though  i might just cut my losses and used that high power CFL to to flower my AG grow...

we'll see.. maybe she can be saved??


Shack


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## howak47 (Jul 19, 2009)

damn i hope they are allright i got my fingers crossed for ya man


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## GypsyBush (Jul 19, 2009)

all is lost just like that ...??? in one day??? really???


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 19, 2009)

i saw friday afternoon a few spots on a leaf.. i wanted to ignore it, so i did.

then saturday (water change friday) i checked in the morning the leaves had begun cupping under.

then sunday morning, bro calls.. leaves are now splotchy all over AND cupped more. (more leaves cupped than day before)

i'm going to post to the problems/cures forum tomorrow with some pics, i'll share the link.

if i can't get a cure and back together in a couple weeks, i'm going to chop and harvest what measly bits i can.  not happy about this.

but, the bright side, all else fails, AG grow will get a space/light upgrade.. so that's a plus i guess.

not happy really... gonna hit a bowl, smoke a square, and get to bed.


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Jul 19, 2009)

Good Luck Bro...

I'm cheering for her...

It sounds like a pH problem to me man...

You use good nutes... way more than I do...

I have never seen a deficiency per se in hydro...

Most of the ones we see are caused by pH problems locking out stuff...

Flush... get your pH in check and maybe back off just a hair on the nutes while she adjusts..

That's what I would do...


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 20, 2009)

when you say flush, you mean run pure water for a bit, then add a batch of nutrient solution?
or
when you say flush, you mean dump the res, wipe it down, rinse it, and add solution?

my guess is pH as well, flora nova has pH buffers, so when i mix it, its very hard to get that 5.9, always 5.3-5, then i add pH UP, to counter the buffers, but they are really strong so i added a shitload, and usually balances out after a day... i think it just was TOO much this time and threw everything out of whack!!


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Jul 20, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> when you say flush, you mean run pure water for a bit, then add a batch of nutrient solution?
> or
> when you say flush, you mean dump the res, wipe it down, rinse it, and add solution?


If I was gonna empty the res and add fresh water, I would personally clean it.. but I am not sure how big a pain in the ass that would be in your setup...

What I mean is...

drain it.. fill it with fresh water... no nutes..

let it do it's thing for 10 minutes or so... go smoke a bowl...

then empty and repeat....

In a small res like yours, I would do it 3 or 4 times... making sure the roots get to soak in for about 10 minutes...

Then I would add my nutes minus 150ppm/pH 5.8 and see how she does for a few days...



> my guess is pH as well, flora nova has pH buffers, so when i mix it, its very hard to get that 5.9, always 5.3-5, then i add pH UP, to counter the buffers, but they are really strong so i added a shitload, and usually balances out after a day... i think it just was TOO much this time and threw everything out of whack!!
> 
> 
> Shack


I am going to quote Al B. Fuct here...

The whole thing is worth it... but the BOLD part is what I am referring you to...








Al B. Fuct said:


> If I had to offer general suggestions to a noob, these would be the most significant:
> 
> ** Build your room so it presents consistently correct conditions; 24-26C @ 30-50%RH with frequent ventilation. *
> 
> ...


----------



## Shackleford.R (Jul 20, 2009)

i still have non organics lying around... could i do a H2O2 wash/rinse as you described above.. after H2O2 dips switch to the non organics??
(that question isn't just for gypsy, it's for everybody)


Shack


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 21, 2009)

few things going on right now..

1-took the drip tub (top half holding plant) out of main res and soaked, rain drip pump in 5.9 pH water in fresh res

2-trimmed back RIDICULOUS amount of stem and leaf to encourage larger bud growth on remaining stems, figure CFL didn't have enough "umph" to flower the whole plant
looks like it will produce larger buds on remaining stem.. pics of haircut later

3-rinsed the main res 3 times and wiped down all surfaces inside res with a sponge to remove excess salt/nute/fert residue

4-topped off res with 5.9 pH tap water, plant is back in main res with air stone fizzing and drip pump dripping

plan to continue step 4 for a hour or so till i feel certain roots are rinsed well. also realized she had become root bound, the rinsing and gentle agitation i gave her loosened up the roots and looks much less like a bundle sitting in the res.

i'm considering once she goes back in the flowering area that i'm going to go with ripening strength nutrient solution so she can start fattening up and i can harvest in a few weeks hopefully.
any tips for ripening/bulking the buds??

final note, i've been using flora nova, and the roots look "dirty" after the few rinses they look a little "cleaner". can i switch back to the flora series (non-organic) to finish??


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Jul 21, 2009)

You can switch back... just don;t over fert...


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 21, 2009)

alright, i figured it would be safe to switch back. i noticed when i dumped the res it was much fuller than i expected, she usually needs a top off by tomorrow on the average. res change friday, top off wednesday. she had drank as much.. pH lockout is my guess what caused the problem. that and i may have dosed a little heavily with the liquid koolbloom. 

i want this grow to be over with, so i can start planning a better grow, with better genetics using some of my ordered seeds. i have all indica seed lying around and no place to grow it.

what is "ripening" all about??


Shack


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 21, 2009)

not sure about ripening just yet.. today is 6 weeks flowering, since the date of pre-flower. so what say you growers of sativa?? give it a couple more weeks? go for a solid 8 weeks of flower, then ripen for two weeks??


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## GypsyBush (Jul 21, 2009)

according to these shots... you have a looong ways to go still...

be patient...



Shacleford.R said:


> Shackleford.R


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 22, 2009)

Laura is back on Flora Series.. she did an overnight "soak" in pure pH water. No nutes, just a little a pH down to get around 5.9. (my tap water comes out at 9.6 pH and 140 ppm) drained the res after mixing up the solution. The overnight soak took the pH to 6.6 pH and 440 ppm. So the roots then leeched some nutrients out into the water AND in the process jumped the pH.

rescuing Laura turned into an interesting inadvertent science experiment. 

how much does your root zone affect your pH and ppm??

apparently in 24 hours it can raise pH 0.7 and ppm 300!

interesting info to have i'd say.

Moving right along!! She was on an aggressive nutrient schedule, 1500 ppm refreshed every 7 days. I backed her down to something a LITTLE weaker, 1300 ppm, and little FloraGro for some N since her leaves had taken some spot and damage. I might just finish her off on the calmer "bloom" strength as opposed to "aggressive bloom" strength. She has the FloraGro/Bloom/Micro, as well as Floralicious Bloom, FloraNectar, and Liquid KoolBloom. I think that should be an alright cocktail for the time being. Will update tomorrow with pics, too ashamed to show her all beaten up, maybe she will look a little better tomorrow after she has a nice meal!! 


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Jul 22, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> Not as much as yours cause of the difference in res size...
> 
> That is why, especially in small res... the water should be changed a few times during the flush...
> 
> ...


----------



## Shackleford.R (Jul 22, 2009)

well the flora series was free with the waterfarm. additives were about 30 a bottle..

i'd LOVE to have a 1 part nutrient and hydrogen peroxide.

what line do you use? might give it a go, next grow.. it's ridiculous measuring each nutrient and additive.


Shack


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 22, 2009)

also gypsy, how do you flush? pure water? or do you use a "flushing" additive, carb load, clearex, florakleen? i'm thinking fresh water is the way to go, with a hint of something for carb loading.


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Jul 22, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> well the flora series was free with the waterfarm. additives were about 30 a bottle..


That's not too bad I guess...

I pay $30 for a bottle of BLOOM JUICE that will last me a month in the SOG...

And I paid $110 for 15 GAL of 50% h2o2, and that will last longer than I care to calculate... 



> i'd LOVE to have a 1 part nutrient and hydrogen peroxide.


It sure is simple... even if the organic folks laugh at you...



> what line do you use? might give it a go, next grow.. it's ridiculous measuring each nutrient and additive.
> 
> 
> Shack


I tried a bunch of shit when I couldn't get h2o2...

Right now I am back to the very first nute I ever used... the one recommended by the old hippie...

I ran it by AL B. Fuct and he said that as long as it worked for me, it was totally compatible with his system and with h2o2...

I use the GROW JUICE for veg... Bloom Juice for flower... 

They also have a boost juice, that I used for a while but dropped without noticing a difference...

Here is what goes in my res other than water...









Shackleford.R said:


> also gypsy, how do you flush?


I only flush for a day when I change my res...

I do this to remove salt build up from the hydroton... to clean my medium...

As the water dissolves the salts, it absorbs them... hence the change in pH and ppm...

But I do not flush for weeks at the end...




> pure water? or do you use a "flushing" additive, carb load, clearex, florakleen?


straight tap water...



> i'm thinking fresh water is the way to go,


That is what I use... LOTS of fresh water...



> with a hint of something for carb loading.
> 
> 
> Shack


So... NOT just fresh water...

and Uh... what's with the carb loading? your plant on a diet?

Sorry... I just never messed with any of that stuff... 

I am still a newb... and carbs... and calories... and subatoms... are just beyond me...

Cheers bro... and post some pics...


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 22, 2009)

alright gypsy! i'd rep you if i could!

might be awhile before the WaterFarm goes into use.. maybe not till late winter. 
it will be a MUCH smaller indica, so i anticipate a MUCH better yield with my CFL hood.
i probably will go with a 1 part and H2O2, local hydro store has a house brand 2-part system..

i'm growing CFL, i figure whatever it takes to bulk the buds.. hence carb loading.
the sugars encourage metabolism and accelerate the weight gain of the buds.

i'll get pictures tomorrow when the lights come on.. it MIGHT frighten you.. she had a thorough haircut!


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Jul 22, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> i'm growing CFL, i figure whatever it takes to bulk the buds.. hence carb loading.
> the sugars encourage metabolism and accelerate the weight gain of the buds.
> 
> 
> ...


Where do you get this stuff???

I mean the info...


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 22, 2009)

other threads.. people talk!! haha.. i've never grown, i'd like to learn things first hand.

haha i'm ready for these to be done. my next grow is going to be soil!! 8 oz for less than 100$ from seed to harvest in 65 days..
i picked up a book from a member on RIU (at my bookstore, hes been published!! a RIU member.. PUBLISHED!!)
anyhow, its basically a daily journal in print of his grow... i plan to closely mimic his conditions.. using similar genetics..
only i'll be growing 2X the plants he grows.. hopefully a pound?? thats a ways off though... high and like to talk..


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Jul 22, 2009)

a pound off of what light?

was it GK's book you bought?


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 22, 2009)

Seemore Buds i believe... he grows 8 oz using multiple CFL in a DIY fixture (clever design, saw it here first somewhere) 2 mango clones, one strain from seed, all indica, topped around 3rd node i believe.. 8 oz from that...







The book at amazon.com


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## GypsyBush (Jul 23, 2009)

Yeah! That's Garden Knowm's...




https://www.rollitup.org/members/garden-knowm-608.html

I have heard good things about the book... but I have never read it myself...

One thing I will tell you though, same as I did before, same as I tell everyone...

If you decide to go with GK's recipe, stick to it... follow it like a recipe...

"do what he does and get what he gets..."


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 23, 2009)

photo update on the way.. just getting things in order

30 min or less


Shack


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 23, 2009)

As I've been talking about the past few days, she had some sort of issue, but she seems to have made a VERY respectable recovery.. No more necrotic development, overall she is looking healthier!! After a nice little haircut, her buds seem to be happier as well, spreading more vigorously along the branches. Definitely has restored my hopes for a good harvest!







there she is after her haircut! trimmed back quite a bit, but its more focused at the top less of the bullshit below robbing energy and nutrients from the canopy near the light.

here is a little taste of what she was covered in just a few days ago..







it is hard to look at, i know. what was more bizarre was this distinct nearly "i'm dead" plant smell she had, its finally cleared up, a little fresher in the closet i'd say. she seems happy again.  SORRY FOR NEGLECTING YOU LAURA!!

attached is some bud pr0n. she is FINALLY starting to fill out, i think between the haircut, and the more appropriately blended nutrient solution, she has what she needs to provide me with a good harvest sometime early october.. late august.. also attached a bit of the main stalk, to check out the trim.

your thoughts, questions, and comments now. especially pertaining to why some of her hairs are shriveling and changing color, i expected the color change but the shriveling?? is that related to the deficiency/pH problem she suffered?


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Jul 23, 2009)

Shack, can we see a picture of all of her...?

As for the hairs... it seems a little premature, but they will keep doing that...

As long as there are new hairs being pumped out, I would not worry...


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 23, 2009)

....all of her? like more than the first picture?

i don't understand what you're asking.


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Jul 23, 2009)

A picture of the whole plant... that first picture does not show the whole plant, only the bottom part...

Take a few steps back...


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 23, 2009)

...thats the whole plant... the hood is right over the top.. you're not missing anything my friend.


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Jul 23, 2009)

Sorry Shack.. for some reason I could only see the attachments...

I did not see the "first" picture before....

my apologies...


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## GypsyBush (Jul 23, 2009)

She doesn't look bad at all Shack...


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 23, 2009)

no worries gypsy!


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## howak47 (Jul 24, 2009)

lookin good man she recovered nicely!!!!!!1 i just did a update with bud pics check em out tell me what u think!!! https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/205127-zona-mid-aero-cfl-grow-27.html#post2787789


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 27, 2009)

topped off the res.. still 12/12 yadda yadda..

one question though, if my ppm spikes say to... 1620... is that a bad thing... does it NEED to be lower?


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Jul 27, 2009)

The rule of thumb is that if your PPM rises, your res is too small...

If your ppm remains constant, your res size is just right...

And if the ppm lowers, your res is too big...

It's all got to do with water consumption vs nutrient uptake...

Your res is small, so they drink water faster than they take up nutes.. (proportionally speaking)

Now... to answer your question...

Critical point for nute burn is different in every strain...

Some fast growing Satives may handle up to 1800 ppm... I've done that in DWC before...

But I also have strains that will not tolerate that...

Juicy fruit for example likes 1200ppm... anymore and it hurts the yield BIG TIME...

So it depends on your strain...

BUT... since you are talking about a spike... it makes me think that things may be out of wack.. and if that is the case, it is a bad thing...

pH imbalance can cause nutrient lock up, which would cause the plant to drink water, but not use nutes...

Hope this helped... but there is no clear cut answer...


----------



## Shackleford.R (Jul 27, 2009)

well i did switch from the organic back to chemical nutrients.. so the roots may be adjusting to the switch. also she stills recovering a little from the recent nutrient burn.

pH is steady however, i'm keeping it balanced between 5.6 - 5.9 (fill at 5.9 after about 3-5 days it lowers to 5.6)
so i think it is holding steady enough..


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Jul 27, 2009)

See... that's weird...

Normally the pH goes up... and wee use pH down... I didn;t even buy a bottle of pH up until I went organic...

I bet you have the same organism I had in my op... it PLUNGED my pH every day...

If you are back on non organic nutes... use a little h2o2 and you will be golden...

What strength do you have access to?

I use 1ml/L of the 50%... 

The 35% goes in at 17ml/L *but I would have to double check to be sure..*.


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 27, 2009)

not sure which H2O2 i can get my hands on... probably whatever the strongest OTC at the drug store would be.. haven't seen it at my hydro store yet.

i uh...forgot to mention... when i was moving things around... the main node where the two tops branch off... SPLIT! IN HALF!! i used gardening ribbon, and wrapped it back together tightly... i'll be pissed if this kills my girl.. such a stupid accident.


Shack


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 27, 2009)

i can't believe i didn't think about that... H2O2 would OBLITERATE what remnants of organic crud is left in the root zone... would probably clean up the color too!! thanks gypsy.. that will be going tomorrow for sure!!


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Jul 27, 2009)

You need to find at least 35% (food grade) h2o2..

over the counter 3% will do.. but it will cost you an arm and a leg...

In my res.. I would need about 30 bottles of 3% h2o2 every 3 or 4 days...

Find the right stuff...

Look up industrial chemical suppliers on your yellow pages... same people that sell chlorine and shit like that ... they have it...

I paid$110 for 15 gallons of 50%... it will last me for a loooong time...


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## GypsyBush (Jul 27, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> i uh...forgot to mention... when i was moving things around... the main node where the two tops branch off... SPLIT! IN HALF!! i used gardening ribbon, and wrapped it back together tightly... i'll be pissed if this kills my girl.. such a stupid accident.
> 
> 
> Shack


she'll be fine....

and h2o2 is usually a behind the counter item, it's kinda dangerous... very corrosive....


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 27, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> she'll be fine....
> 
> and h2o2 is usually a behind the counter item, it's kinda dangerous... very corrosive....


oh...  i was talking OTC Hydrogen Peroxide like you use to clean a wound... haha.

more info!!


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## GypsyBush (Jul 27, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> oh...  i was talking OTC Hydrogen Peroxide like you use to clean a wound... haha.
> 
> more info!!


I thought I did give you more info...



GypsyBush said:


> You need to find at least 35% (food grade) h2o2..
> 
> *over the counter 3% will do.. but it will cost you an arm and a leg...
> 
> ...


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 27, 2009)

haha right on.. if i go with the 3% in a 2 gallon res.. what rate would i add it?


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Jul 28, 2009)

it's 5 am Shack... and I have to do percentage math now...?!?!

oh boy..

I hope I remember 3rd grade...

Stand by....


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## GypsyBush (Jul 28, 2009)

well Shack... a quick search right here on RIU gave me this address...

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/177655-using-hydrogen-peroxide-h2o2.html

plenty of pros and cons on using the 3% stuff....

and I can't figure out the math bro... I am still looking for Al B. Fuct's post on it... it spelled everything out...

But here's the info...

50% goes in a 1ml per liter...

35% goes in at 1.7 ml per liter....


Never Mind... here is the word from people that know WAAAAY more than I do...




POTROAST said:


> potroast
> 
> 
> 
> ...







Al B. Fuct said:


> Al B. Fuct
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## GypsyBush (Jul 28, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> haha right on.. if i go with the 3% in a 2 gallon res.. what rate would i add it?
> 
> 
> Shack


500 ml every 3 or 4 days...


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## Shackleford.R (Jul 28, 2009)

gypsy you always go above and beyond.. call yourself a copycat all you want..

you have been a great help and a tremendous resource.

when harvest time comes... as this is bagseed... i may just name it "Gypsy Bush"

thanks for being a help.. and i'm off to the store soon to pick up some H2O2!!


Shack


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## howak47 (Jul 28, 2009)

hey shackelford check out my new pics of trimmed buds i just cut off plant tonight https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/205127-zona-mid-aero-cfl-grow-32.html#post2810575


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## Shackleford.R (Aug 3, 2009)

long time no see right? well here's the story, ever since the nute burn she has had trouble recovering, she has maintained a fairly pitiful appearance.
starting today, i'm going with the GH feeding schedule and moving her to "Ripening" formula nutrient solution.
plan on giving her two weeks of ripening, then she is getting chopped.

i'll post a pic later today, let you know where she is at.


Shack


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## Shackleford.R (Aug 4, 2009)

Today Laura got her first taste of Ripen strength nutrient solution (according to the Gen Hydro feeding schedule) I also gave her a blast of H2O2 (3%). 250 mL for the 2 gallon res. 

Next week she will receive the a fresh batch of the same solution recipe, and after that week CHOP CHOP!!! 

So now i need advice for chopping.. take down the whole bush at the main stem, and the trim down to smaller branches and remove larger leaves, hang to dry for a few days, removing leaves as they dry.. after about a week manicure in the nug and then start the cure?? (all measurements of time are rough estimates) anything else i should consider? is that right or wrong??


Shack

P.S. I can't wait to move to soil.. tired of moving the plant, cleaning the res, mixing the nutes, filling the res, moving the plant back.. blah blah blah.. soil is definitely the n00b way to start.. haha. oh well hydro has definitely been a learning experience!!


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## GypsyBush (Aug 4, 2009)

I can't imagine she is *anywhere* near ready...

Can I see a pic?

Oh... and when you chop... you trim and manicure it all the same day...

Then you dry.. then you cure...


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## Shackleford.R (Aug 4, 2009)

well gypsy.. you're right and you're wrong..

she is nowhere near ready, but she is haha.. she never really recovered and i'd love to give 4 weeks before chopping. 
but i have a road trip coming up that can't be moved.
the hope is to chop, manicure, dry and cure along the road.

that and i'm ready for this grow to be over with, i've learned my hydro lesson, i'd much rather be in soil.

to be frank, *I'M*done with this grow, Laura could definitely enjoy another month of flower, but her time has come.

thank you for keeping it real Gypsy.


Shack


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## Shackleford.R (Aug 9, 2009)

BIG Update tomorrow!! Harvesting soon.

I'll let you know now! Trimmed a few branches off a week ago, and without a good cure it is still a VERY good smoke! Mellow high, almost narcotic. Leaves you relaxed but able to move. Taste is VERY exotic, definitely from a mexican strain (the seed is from swag moved through Houston, most definitely some Mexi-Brick) Another week of ripening and this will for sure be a good stone!


Shack


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## howak47 (Aug 9, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> BIG Update tomorrow!! Harvesting soon.
> 
> I'll let you know now! Trimmed a few branches off a week ago, and without a good cure it is still a VERY good smoke! Mellow high, almost narcotic. Leaves you relaxed but able to move. Taste is VERY exotic, definitely from a mexican strain (the seed is from swag moved through Houston, most definitely some Mexi-Brick) Another week of ripening and this will for sure be a good stone!
> 
> ...


sounds good man cant wait for the update!!!!


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## Shackleford.R (Aug 11, 2009)

As promised an update!! Ripening is going VERY well, the girls are starting to bulk up nicely! 

Have them at 1200 ppm, with floralicious bloom, floranectar, and liquid koolbloom.
Also H2O2 at a rate of 250 mL/gal (i'm using over the counter pharmacy H2O2)

She seems the happiest she has been through the whole flowering process. Haven't seen her this healthy since the early days of veg!!
I'm a believer in NON-organic nutes and H2O2 for my hydro grows!!

So the gameplan at this point is to run the res with this strength for the rest of the week and topping off as needed (the root ball is too big to fill all at once with the 2 gallons of solution) After I've run the entire 2 gallons of solution, will be making a judgement call an added week of ripening or a one week straight pH water flush. Leaning towards the flush as the test trim from two weeks ago had the cerebral non-couch lock high that I am after!

Enjoy some bud pr0nz!!


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Aug 11, 2009)

Deff. some buds starting to form...

It's a shame you can;t let them go longer...

I bet you would have a surprisingly good yield if you just let them run their course...

I mean.. up to 25% of a buds mass comes in the last few weeks...

But.. gotta do what you gotta do...

Best of luck with your soil grow...

I feel soil is way too advanced for my knowledge... 

Good Luck...


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## Shackleford.R (Aug 11, 2009)

funny you should say that Gypsy, i feel hydro is too advanced for my knowledge. haha.

soil seems simple and easy to me, creates a nice buffer for nutrients and such.

also i plan to go pretty natural and simple. i think the issue/problems with soil come into play when you start concerning yourself with pH and ppm... i raise delicious tomatoes and just follow manufacturers instructions for fertilizing. (i.e. add this much to this much water) when you get TOO technical and concern yourself with other issues i feel is probably when things get thrown out of whack!

i'm certain my knowledge gained from this grow and understanding cannabis' needs will lend a helping hand to my first soil adventure!


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Aug 11, 2009)

Shackleford.R said:


> funny you should say that Gypsy, i feel hydro is too advanced for my knowledge. haha....
> 
> Shack



Well..

Hydro is by the numbers... you grow scientifically...

Follow the recipe .. get the cake...

...

Soil is like magik...

there is no science to follow... it's all "gut feeling"...

And so much more potential for deficiencies or toxic accumulations than hydro...

Then there's pests and disease... and it's dirty...

I just could not fathom going to soil...

I think "Gandalf the White" would be a good soil grower...

But I am no wizard... 

My kung fu is not THAT strong....

I rather stick to something I can follow directions to and achieve good results...

But I do wish the best of luck.. and who knows....

You didn't do well with hydro... maybe you are one of the soil wizards...


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## Shackleford.R (Aug 13, 2009)

SUP!! here to advertise..

The Shack's Super Awesome First Soil Grow

AND AWAY WE GOOOOO!!!


Shack


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## Shackleford.R (Aug 16, 2009)

Well not much to report, buds are still piling on.. seems the magic number for this strain is 5.9 pH and 1100 ppm. I was running full strength up until i decided to go to the "ripening" strength, so i was running 1400-1500 ppm, seems she prefers the lower ppm. Go figure?!

No time for pics right now, i'll do some tomorrow. My major complaint right now is the lack of crystal, to the naked eye should i be able to see any? All the photos I see buds always look FROSTED, and here she looks healthy but she doesnt have that shimmer i'm used to seeing in photo or in my sac from the dealer for that matter!! Thoughts?? My humidity might be too high, thus keeping her from wanting to develop the resins to protect herself.. thoughts RIU??? or do crystals come AFTER the buds bulk up??


Shack

PS i just checked.. Temps = 90 Humidity = 35% (i'm also running DIY CO2 so i'm ok with the higher temps, from what i hear...)


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## howak47 (Aug 16, 2009)

shackleford.r said:


> as promised an update!! Ripening is going very well, the girls are starting to bulk up nicely!
> 
> Have them at 1200 ppm, with floralicious bloom, floranectar, and liquid koolbloom.
> Also h2o2 at a rate of 250 ml/gal (i'm using over the counter pharmacy h2o2)
> ...


damn man those are sum monsters hahaha lookin good keep up the good work!!!i just did updates on both my threads!!!


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## usagiakui (Aug 18, 2009)

Hey Shakleford...
I know you probably won't reply to me, but hey.... If you read my updates, you may not wanna shun me anymore.. 

But hey man, all I have to say is that going soil is the best thing you can do... Screw hydro, its a pain in the ass for small grows IMO... 

I love the way my grow is going, check it out with MANY MANY MANY pics...
Dont go if you have a dial-up connection though...

Peace Shakle!


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## Shackleford.R (Aug 18, 2009)

please don't spam me.

i gladly reply to most posts.. but don't appreciate being spammed across my threads.

have we met? haha.. i mean have i seen a post of yours and ignored it?


Shack


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## dopewear (Aug 22, 2009)

SPAM 
SPAM 
SPAM 
SPAM 
SPAM 
SPAM 
SPAM 
SPAM 

lol sorry shack just thought id spam a little. the plants are looking great, i may be quiet on the thread but im always watching.
keep it up
cheers


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## Shackleford.R (Aug 22, 2009)

dopewear said:


> SPAM
> SPAM
> SPAM
> SPAM
> ...


YOU SON OF A BITCH!!! haha.

i've been lazy, my grow is going really well still. i'm doing my last fresh res monday evening or tuesday morning. then 7 days or until ppm drops REALLY low and after that. chop time!!! the buds are looking damn good!! still wispy and airy, someone had mentioned i should expect that from my sativa. (also the CFL and the size of the plant keep her from spreading the love so to speak)

anyhow i'll try to get some pics up soon.


Shack


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## "SICC" (Aug 25, 2009)

pics please


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## Shackleford.R (Aug 26, 2009)

[QUOTE="SICC";2971085]pics please [/QUOTE]

i guess i owe them to you guys haha. i've been promising for awhile..
i'm at a point where i need to make decisions..
give her another week, or go ahead and chop.
she hasn't done much in the way of trichome production, that is to say she doesn't look very frosted or iced. but that could have everything to do with genetics.
a branch cut about 3 weeks ago was enough for a small cerebral high, which is what i am after. pics up in about a hour!


Shack


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## Shackleford.R (Aug 26, 2009)

Well my camera can see a bit more than i can. Most buds look pretty frosty.
I think i might take her down this afternoon. Or is that "24 hour dark" myth prior to chop worth it???

Check out the pics and let me know what RIU says..


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Aug 26, 2009)

she's got a LOT of maturing to do Shack...

Does your grow space have ANY light leaks?

She is nowhere near ready bro...


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## "SICC" (Aug 26, 2009)

definitely needs more time, how long has she been flowering?


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## newb19547 (Aug 26, 2009)

I'd say somewhere near a month left maybe


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## Shackleford.R (Aug 26, 2009)

[QUOTE="SICC";2977265]definitely needs more time, how long has she been flowering?[/QUOTE]

i've lost track but i'd say bare minimum 8 weeks since first sign of flowers.. maybe 10

i'm just getting anxious i guess..


Shack


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## Shackleford.R (Aug 27, 2009)

at the advise of most everyone here, fresh solution today at 1400 ppm; 5.9 pH; and 500 mL of pharmacy grade H2O2 (3% i believe?)
the ppm was stepped up by about 200, she was definitely healthier during her minor recovery phase on lower ppm
BUT! now that i'm planning to flower longer, i figure might as amp up the ppm and try to push a few more blooms here in the last couple weeks.
(from what i can see in person 2-3 weeks at full (or near full) strength solution should enough to bulk up the buds!)

anyhow.. no pics because, well, nothing changed since the other day.. although i did vacuum haha.. dead leaves ALL over the grow space, which is why i added a little kick of FloraGro up the N a little bit.
also, it takes a steady hand and a crevice attachment, i managed to vacuum some dead leaves from the branch itself haha. have to say i'm proud of my technique.

LASTLY!! clipped a branch today, it was looking a little rough, most the buds had begun to shrivel, and looked like it could eventually check the rest of the plant.
drying it in a separate closet and hope to have some smoke by next friday to see how it is presently. (without proper cure, just want to get a feel for the "high" at this stage)

all for now!


Shack


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## JoeCa1i (Aug 27, 2009)

*They don't look good.....Hopefully those flowers fill up.....*


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## GypsyBush (Aug 27, 2009)

do you have light leaks?


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## Shackleford.R (Aug 27, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> do you have light leaks?


i don't believe so.. its in a closet in a room that i only enter when checking on her during lights on.

what effect could that have?


Shack


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## GypsyBush (Aug 27, 2009)

prolonged flowering like you are seeing...

she almost looks like she is wanting to reveg...

if you can see your hand in front of you after 2 minutes to adjust your vision, there's too much light...

I'm not saying that is what it is... but at one month, you should be seeing BUDS...and all I see are hairs...

I'm not sure bro... but just looking at the pics I'd say she looks like week one of flowering...

not trying to be mean or anything... but I really suspect a slight leak...


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## Shackleford.R (Sep 23, 2009)

She got chopped today and I have to say, I am rather IMPRESSED with the harvest!

Good bit of bud, should be perfect smoke for Halloween! 

Post some pics later of the drying buds!


Shack


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## "SICC" (Sep 23, 2009)

keep us posted


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## Shackleford.R (Sep 23, 2009)

[QUOTE="SICC";3128915]keep us posted[/QUOTE]

rolling a doobie of some harvested a couple weeks ago as we speak.

will post a preliminary smoke report. as well as the photos of complete harvest after.

very awesome yield! those sativas are heavy yielders!!


Shack


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## "SICC" (Sep 23, 2009)

nice man sounds great, good to know it worked out for you


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## Shackleford.R (Sep 23, 2009)

So here she is..

*From this...*






*To this...*




I'm using the former grow space for drying. I cleared everything out.
Cleaned up a bit, vacuuming and wiping down a few surfaces.
Now they are hanging from once hung the hood and lights.
Still have the stand in there, with an small oscillating fan (same one used during the grow, the metal oscillating, not the box fan)
That's pretty much it I guess. Following everything I've read about drying and curing. 
Plan to hang until the stems are just in between bendy and snapping.
Then clipping buds from branches and into a jar to burp daily for a few weeks.
Hopefully ready in time for Halloween. (plan to have a stash at an upcoming unnamed music festival, regardless if curing is done)
All in all a VERY good personal stash that should most definitely last me till Thanksgiving.

Thanks for following along during the grow. Keep checking over the next month, will post often about drying and curing. I want this thread to be all encompassing.


Shack


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## DubB83 (Sep 24, 2009)

Your buds look to be quite airy and wispy. Did you have light leaks? What was your average temp during the light cycle? How long did you go after hitting 12/12?

I'm not knocking you, that is a good job for learning to grow. I just think that if you waited a bit longer or had cooler temperatures you would have denser nugs. 

Let me know if you want any extra advice, sometimes I have a gem hidden in the rough.

~GG420


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## Shackleford.R (Sep 24, 2009)

DubB83 said:


> Your buds look to be quite airy and wispy. Did you have light leaks? What was your average temp during the light cycle? How long did you go after hitting 12/12?
> 
> I'm not knocking you, that is a good job for learning to grow. I just think that if you waited a bit longer or had cooler temperatures you would have denser nugs.
> 
> ...


story goes like this.. it was a CFL grow, and i had those lights right on them as everyone says you should. i went for about 3 1/2 months of flower, and temps ran high more often than not, topping around 92 with 25-35% humidity. i was growing in a closet with a sliding door, so there was a good chance of light leaks.

the main reason for harvest, some buds got toasted! i mean they were shriveled up dead branches. only one or two branches lost.

as far as wispy and airy, majority, YES.. a few here and there, dense. not sure why it worked that way. but i will say this, the bag the bud came from, obviously had been compressed, but even for being compressed, it looked like what some of my pre harvest bud look like. largely wispy and airy.

feel free to go on, with any knowledge of what went wrong, and what to do better next time.


Shack


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## DubB83 (Sep 24, 2009)

I have tried to grow in the ambient temps of Texas before, I use to only grow ruderalis. I had a waterfarm just like yours and a 150HPS and 4 flouro tubes. I made the "grow cube" out of a hightimes magazine and away I went.

Light leaks, get some black poly plastic sheeting, like pond liner or painters plastic and hang it just inside the door. Try standing inside the area when the lights go out to see any leaks, cover extra leaks any way possible.

Temps, if you own the house cut a whole in the wall and draw fresh air through the hole in the wall. Otherwise you need to rig up a A/C or another method of cooling, some people I knew in that area took apart small refrigerators to use their cooling system. Be sure to exhaust your area 3 times a minute, even if your ambient temps are high air circulation will keep your plants from dehydration.

Other than that when is the next round going in?


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## Shackleford.R (Sep 25, 2009)

next round is going to be awhile, probably not till after first of next year. i ending up overtaking a room in the house, and my girlfriend is happy to have a room back. so i'm holding off a bit. also waiting so i can plan out the next grow... considering soil, also have some good seeds from greenhouse, so i need to decide which strain, figuring out a new light situation.. few things to consider.

i like the drape idea though... i had no clue how to best defend from light leaks, that pretty damn simple and common sense.
i'm renting the house, so no clue how to exchange air.. would a grow box in the closet make more sense???


Shack


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## DubB83 (Sep 25, 2009)

I feel that putting a grow box in the closet is asking for trouble. Do you have a garage or do you have another area you can put some cabinets out in the open? The best place to hide things is in plain sight, remember that! I'm renting too but I can patch dry wall so I cut a whole. 

I think that if you could put the box in an area that is controlled by the AC and there are vents near by as long as you cycle the air volume 3x a minute you will be only a degree or two higher than what your AC thermostat is saying as long as you use CFLs. My biggest expense is the AC, I have to keep the house at 74* and that keeps the basement at 70* and my 600W heats it right up to 80* and it stays constant there. Really I think that you should look into stealth PC grows, you can put it in your home office and no one will even know the wiser!

From reading about your smoking habits you should be fine with a small stealth grow. I have looked over your stealth cabinet thread and I think you can capitalize on it if you can minimize it. You were going in a great direction with it!

As far as soil goes, you may have good luck with it. I'm about 50/50 on soil, I prefer Hempy buckets right now, somewhere in-between soil and hydro. I grow in coc/perlite right now, but have used nearly everything under the sun. The only think I don't like about soil is adjusting the nutes in the mix from veg to bloom is a PITA.

P.S. Sorry to hear about your bro, my bro is an alcoholic to and he is a professional bartender.

Gotta keep the girl happy, and mine wouldn't be happy without a SOG operation. 

~GG420


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## Shackleford.R (Sep 29, 2009)

1-Light Leaks are your enemy
2-LIGHT LEAKS ARE YOUR ENEMY!
3-Veg only for a short period, stretching and growth continue WELL into flower
4-Proper ventilation/air circulation leads to consistent temps, leads to better growth

With those factors in mind, i begin construction of a grow tent today, that will make use of the previous grow space. expect a new thread to follow the construction. probably keep that thread as grow journal. looking to crack a seed in mid-november, again single plant, probably feminized lemon skunk from greenhouse, or i don't know which, got 10 seeds lying around all AWESOME strains (and fem'd for my pleasure  ) Did i mention I'm switching to soil next grow? No more dealing with reservoirs or complex nutrient solutions. Just a little (hopefully organic) fertilizer every now and then.


Shack


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## DubB83 (Sep 29, 2009)

Sounds good keep me updated.


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## Shackleford.R (Sep 29, 2009)

Here it is faithful readers.. the link to my current grow tent project.. shall be an ongoing project, about a week or 2 or 3...
follow along.. looking for input along and criticism along the way.

Shack's Grow Tent


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## DocBrown (Sep 30, 2009)

*There is no doubt you'll be tasting it by Halloween. You and I both have learned valuable lessons lol.*


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## Shackleford.R (Sep 30, 2009)

haha i've already been tasting it. taste like the bud it came from, just seedless.. haha. 
the genetics were from a bag of mexi-shawg, all seedy and such.. treated it a little better and only got a slighter better product than it started as.
hoping for a much better cure by halloween, though for no its pretty tasty, very exotic/hash like.. slightly bitter... i dig it.


Shack


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## FoxCompany426 (Oct 9, 2009)

What's up Shack? Long time no... type... Lol. I see you harvested. Looks beautiful. Any new projects brewing in your head?


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## "SICC" (Oct 9, 2009)

https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/248995-diy-grow-tent.html


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## greenjambo (Oct 10, 2009)

I used an aqua farm similar to yours and 15 on 45 off worked great! Do u use a coco mix with the clay pellets?


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## Shackleford.R (Oct 10, 2009)

greenjambo said:


> I used an aqua farm similar to yours and 15 on 45 off worked great! Do u use a coco mix with the clay pellets?


i grew in straight clay pebbles.. nothing else. and i LOVED the results.



FoxCompany426 said:


> What's up Shack? Long time no... type... Lol. I see you harvested. Looks beautiful. Any new projects brewing in your head?


SICC already pointed you in the right direction. pretty slow going though, kinda delaying the build because i know i'm going to be busy during the holidays coming up and won't be around to garden and tend to it. also planning to go soil and organics. so i REALLY need to be around.


Shack


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## Jester88 (Feb 2, 2010)

are you still putting them all in the same container??


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## Shackleford.R (Feb 2, 2010)

Jester88 said:


> are you still putting them all in the same container??


nope. i'm soil now.


Shack


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## Jester88 (Feb 3, 2010)

awesome hehe. sorry i was slack but 38 pages is a lot. i was just going to say your last yield may have been influenced by the plants all fighting to uptake the nutes.

hehe sorry about that.


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## Shackleford.R (Feb 3, 2010)

oh if thats what you were thinking you should read the thread. i uprooted 4 of them and kept 1 female. i harvested ONE plant out of the unit in the end.

there was no fighting for nutrients in the end.


Shack


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## Jester88 (Feb 8, 2010)

hehe yeah sorry about, that i was a bit sack the other day but wanted to subscribe and seen your question...


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## Prot3us1 (Feb 28, 2010)

Hey shack! New grows up (link in my sig). Cant wait to see ur new grow man! Took us a few weeks extra to get it all going .


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## NavySEALsVet (Oct 2, 2012)

kiss-asskiss-ass


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