# List of Reasons You Don't Believe In God.



## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

ill start ..........................theres more than one .


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## boneheadbob (Oct 28, 2011)

Why do so many people hate God and people who believe in God?


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## HighLowGrow (Oct 28, 2011)

He never answers my prayers.....................I'm still working.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

<b>* 






Why do so many people hate God and people who believe in God?​ 

</b>*coz its the biggest con since buy one get one free , and its time people stopped and thought about the nonsense they are being taught .and btw i dont hate god coz he dosent exist , i hate the idea of a god .
now be a good boy and stick to the meaning of the thread , ty


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## crazyhazey (Oct 28, 2011)

because people have a weak sense of enjoying existence and need to know something happens after they die instead of getting out and doing something in the world we have a limited time to because some book says some guys dies on a damn cross and we should all feel bad. its a need to be loved and a way to not feel like your as egotistically as fucked up as you really are, but in all reality, were all insane and we should just laugh about it instead of trying to go to church and say sorry and give some guy sitting on his ass 10 percent of our salary while he doesn't have to pay taxes to have his insane asylum for people with weak minds. the only scheme behind the idea of god is power, and looking up to a perfect being among all of us imperfect sinners.

dont submit to religion, its just another barrier keeping you from being curious as to what the real answers are.


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## tip top toker (Oct 28, 2011)

That's one of my big issues Sativa High. Either everyone is worshipping the same god but noone really knows anything whatsoever about any of it, or it's all just false worship and belief.

One of my vices against christians is that well, half of them don't even agree with their own bible and keep claiming it's open to interpretation. No, it said god made a woman from adams rib.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

tip top toker said:


> That's one of my big issues Sativa High. Either everyone is worshipping the same god but noone really knows anything whatsoever about any of it, or it's all just false worship and belief.
> 
> One of my vices against christians is that well, half of them don't even agree with their own bible and keep claiming it's open to interpretation. No, it said god made a woman from adams rib.


 exactly if its open to intepratation i could literaly interpratate it to mean absolutely ANYTHING i like .
and btw untill recently they did , agree with everything of the bible , its only recently that they have changed there ideas and are dismisssing the bible.its a flawed tactic .


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## crazyhazey (Oct 28, 2011)

no christians really believe the shit they force on other people, its all bullshit.


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## tip top toker (Oct 28, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> exactly if its open to intepratation i could literaly interpratate it to mean absolutely ANYTHING i like .
> and btw untill recently they did , agree with everything of the bible , its only recently that they have changed there ideas and are dismisssing the bible.


Because it's only recently that science and the likes have been able to prove things wrong  Creationalists are a crazy bunch of fuckers. 

The thing about interpreting the bible, is that as you say, key items can be interpreted to mean anything you like, except that a christian will tell you that your interpretation is incorrect and theirs is the correct one.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

> is incorrect and theirs is the correct one.


sounds more like regular atheists then extreme creationists


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## tip top toker (Oct 28, 2011)

olylifter420 said:


> sounds more like regular atheists then extreme creationists


That is not the response of extreme creationalists, just christians in general  nice attempt at a divert though 

Athiests couldn't give a shit about the idea of interpretations really, it's a book with some pretty clear cut rules laid down by god that christians can't follow for shit  fantastic work. I'm no christian and even i can keep sunday work free if i want to, it's not that hard.


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## crazyhazey (Oct 28, 2011)

the bible wasn't written by god but rather the so called jesus' followers. nobody knows when each one of the sections were written or anything, but it just basically has a bunch of rules of common sense and some other crazy bullshit or some story with an obvious analogy.
its for the simple minded, the youth, and the people who are scared of truth. they scare people into believing their idea, or instead theyll suffer in eternal fire or something. its sick and ruthless of people to still recite this shit.


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## tip top toker (Oct 28, 2011)

Hehe, i always have a dig at christians when they mention how they like knowing they have god over their shoulder protecting them. Myself, well i'm just a real human being who can deal with what life throws their way. ever notice it's the weird loner kids with the invisible friends at school?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 28, 2011)

Im here!!!!


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 28, 2011)

tip top toker said:


> That is not the response of extreme creationalists, just christians in general  nice attempt at a divert though
> 
> Athiests couldn't give a shit about the idea of interpretations really, it's a book with some pretty clear cut rules laid down by god that christians can't follow for shit  fantastic work. I'm no christian and even i can keep sunday work free if i want to, it's not that hard.


...the sabbath thing is discussion much larger than us here  I've read much about how it is related to keeping a certain act sacred.


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## olylifter420 (Oct 28, 2011)

you got all the right iin the world to do as you wish man, aint nobody taking that away from you here right? Do you not understand that this dicotomy will always be even after your dead... who cares and why give so much fucking thought, like its gonna kill your entire family or something, well unless your a terrorist right





tip top toker said:


> That is not the response of extreme creationalists, just christians in general  nice attempt at a divert though
> 
> Athiests couldn't give a shit about the idea of interpretations really, it's a book with some pretty clear cut rules laid down by god that christians can't follow for shit  fantastic work. I'm no christian and even i can keep sunday work free if i want to, it's not that hard.


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Oct 28, 2011)

i feel great tonight


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## boneheadbob (Oct 28, 2011)

Sounds to me like some of you are running scared.


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## Landmark (Oct 29, 2011)

What about questioning belief itself, not whether there is, or is not a G(g)od. To say that you don't believe in G(g)od(s) (ess), or that you do is the same thing, either way you never go beyond belief to discover the actual. Isnt belief a symptom of a stagnant mind?


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## Heisenberg (Oct 29, 2011)

Landmark said:


> What about questioning belief itself, not whether there is, or is not a G(g)od. To say that you don't believe in G(g)od(s) (ess), or that you do is the same thing, either way you never go beyond belief to discover the actual. Isnt belief a symptom of a stagnant mind?


I agree with the first part, and this is a point we have come to in past threads. Believing there is a god requires a leap of faith. Believing there is no god also requires a leap of faith. Since absolutes are not a possibility, we must deal with probables. Nothing exists to make god probable beyond anecdotal information. We can find this same information about leprechauns and Bigfoot. So really this thread, to be a proper reflection of what we have all learned together here, should be called "List of reasons God is improbable".

As for belief being a symptom of a stagnate mind... I think some beliefs are a reflection of a stagnet view of the world, sure. But belief is not a unitary phenomenon. Generating beliefs about the world is a constant result of the human experience. Believing a proposition means trusting that it represents a state of reality. This is the central reason why we should inherently value justification, or evidence for the belief. A responsible intellectual does not have the luxury of simply throwing around beliefs and propositions without offering some sort of rationale. It is this standard that leads us to operate in a cohesive manner when we believe things like, Alaska is cold, rabies is a disease caused by microorganisms, and George Washington was president. Anyone who does feel entitled to make whatever claims they wish without merit should not be surprised when people eventually stop listening.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 29, 2011)

Reasons I don't believe in God?

I can't.

Belief is not a choice.


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## Landmark (Oct 29, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I agree with the first part, and this is a point we have come to in past threads. Believing there is a god requires a leap of faith. Believing there is no god also requires a leap of faith. Since absolutes are not a possibility, we must deal with probables. Nothing exists to make god probable beyond anecdotal information. We can find this same information about leprechauns and Bigfoot. So really this thread, to be a proper reflection of what we have all learned together here, should be called "List of reasons God is improbable".
> 
> As for belief being a symptom of a stagnate mind... I think some beliefs are a reflection of a stagnet view of the world, sure. But belief is not a unitary phenomenon. Generating beliefs about the world is a constant result of the human experience. Believing a proposition means trusting that it represents a state of reality. This is the central reason why we should inherently value justification, or evidence for the belief. A responsible intellectual does not have the luxury of simply throwing around beliefs and propositions without offering some sort of rationale. It is this standard that leads us to operate in a cohesive manner when we believe things like, Alaska is cold, rabies is a disease caused by microorganisms, and George Washington was president. Anyone who does feel entitled to make whatever claims they wish without merit should not be surprised when people eventually stop listening.


I question that belief in god requires an act of faith, it actually requires no action at all, in fact, belief kills off the possibility of discovering the actual. An act of faith is courage in operation, courage has nothing to do with belief, there is no relationship between the two. The moment one says they believe or don't believe, at that moment, all inquiry into the actual stops, and the mind becomes conditioned, stagnant. 

Memory has its appropriate place, and a place where it does not serve one, it has become the master, that is thought (memory) in its inappropriate place.
Do you see that, or no?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 29, 2011)

Hi Landmark.

I wonder if you've read about 'Jungian' quaternity? (Temenos)


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## Landmark (Oct 30, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> Hi Landmark.
> 
> I wonder if you've read about 'Jungian' quaternity? (Temenos)


I have not, is there something you would like to share about the book that moved, or inspired you?


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## crazyhazey (Oct 30, 2011)

trying to imagine a god is perfectly normal i think, but without outside influence(media, etc), i wonder if anyone would still need to believe something to feel comfortable. human kind is a herd animal, and religion is just another way to feel as if your not the only being, and feel weak and scared of what will happen if you dont pray. 
dont let rules hold you back in life, especially if theyre out of a book they have in every hotel room(like wtf is wrong with christian people, why not give someone something useful like maybe a dictionary, not a book on advice that can be interpreted in any which way), especially one thats been changed by its writers for the last couple centuries. 
if your a devoted catholic or christian, i hope youve confronted your fear and acknowledge scientific knowledge, and hopefully you can actually accept evolution and maybe somehow fit it in the bible. the year is 2011 and humans have adapted. 
oh and thanks for saying stem cell research is illogical, stem cells are the next frontier in the medical world and we dont look into because of some book written by mysterious characters nobody has records of(reliable ones) or any proof they ever even existed. who knows, maybe mankind can overcome this handicap. religion is another factor that makes the human species divided. hell, a great example is all the crazy people killing each other over some shitty piece of land that isn't worth shit. (Israel for those who were confused)


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## Heisenberg (Oct 30, 2011)

Landmark said:


> I question that belief in god requires an act of faith, it actually requires no action at all, in fact, belief kills off the possibility of discovering the actual. An act of faith is courage in operation, courage has nothing to do with belief, there is no relationship between the two. The moment one says they believe or don't believe, at that moment, all inquiry into the actual stops, and the mind becomes conditioned, stagnant.
> 
> Memory has its appropriate place, and a place where it does not serve one, it has become the master, that is thought (memory) in its inappropriate place.
> Do you see that, or no?


What I see is that you have not taken the time to think about it or do not posses the faculties to discuss the act of belief.


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## Landmark (Oct 30, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> What I see is that you have not taken the time to think about it or do not posses the faculties to discuss the act of belief.


Believe what you will, stay in ignorance then, as you wish.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 30, 2011)

Landmark said:


> I have not, is there something you would like to share about the book that moved, or inspired you?


...Collected Works is great. And oh yes... much rocket fuel. Temenos / Nucleus. You wrote something here about division and I thought you may have pondered Jung somewhere in your travels.


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## Landmark (Oct 30, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...Collected Works is great. And oh yes... much rocket fuel. Temenos / Nucleus. You wrote something here about division and I thought you may have pondered Jung somewhere in your travels.


I have not read Jung, does he speak of thought, in the psychological realm, creating fragmentation, division?


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## Hepheastus420 (Oct 30, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Reasons I don't believe in God?
> 
> I can't.
> 
> Belief is not a choice.


Belief is not a choice? 

So it isn't my fault for believing in a god?


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## Heisenberg (Oct 31, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Belief is not a choice?
> 
> So it isn't my fault for believing in a god?


Belief is not a choice. If I observe the sun I have no choice but to believe it rises and sets. If I am responsible and observe proper study of the sun, I see that it does not rise or set, but the earth rotates. Can I go back to believing the sun travels around the earth? Only if I am sufficiently convinced.

I look outside and the world appears flat. I believe it is until I am presented with data and pictures convincing me of it's roundness. Can I then go back to believing it's flat?

We can make belief a choice only if we are willing to engage in intellectual dishonesty.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 31, 2011)

Landmark said:


> I have not read Jung, does he speak of thought, in the psychological realm, creating fragmentation, division?


...he speaks more to finding the center after a long division _from it_. That place, that center (centre) is the 'safe place' from which to venture. And to go back to the 'initial division', yes, he does speak to that beginning.


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## Morgan Lynn (Oct 31, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> ill start ..........................theres more than one .


Because mono and polytheistic beliefs are not rational or plausable. I feel that believing deities exist is like believing Criss Angel's magic is real. 

The bible is taken literally when it is meant to be a book of teachings not a book of literal truth. Ever read Aesop's fables? Yeah, that what the bible is.


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## spandy (Oct 31, 2011)

It just puzzles me why any person who says they don't believe in God is constantly trying to refute His existence. Who is it exactly they are trying to convince? 

Fuck Big Foot, I'm should go start a thread about how real he isn't, follow that atheists lead of talking about shit we don't believe in.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 31, 2011)

spandy said:


> It just puzzles me why any person who says they don't believe in God is constantly trying to refute His existence. Who is it exactly they are trying to convince?
> 
> Fuck Big Foot, I'm should go start a thread about how real he isn't, follow that atheists lead of talking about shit we don't believe in.


To quote myself...

I tend to believe polls, studies and surveys when they all report the same information. Polls can be selective, studies can be flawed, and surveys can have too small of a sample group, but no matter the method big or small, the results always show atheism is not seen as an acceptable position. As reported on the daily show recently, Americans distrust atheists more than they do terrorists. Any politician, no matter if he has the brain of Stephen Hawking, the looks of Johnny Depp, and the charisma of Oprah, can not get anywhere near a seat of power unless he also believes in God. How much more evidence do you need than our own president, the leader of our nation and it's policies, declaring atheists non-citizens? This is not just disapproval, but outright prejudice. Throw in the polices of organizations like the boy scouts and you have blatant discrimination. 

It's fine to believe something on faith IF you understand what that means. It means you are not allowed to debate your idea, because you can not support it. It means you are not allowed to use your ideas to influence any sort of social or public policy, because you have no justification. You certainly are not allowed to teach your ideas in any sort of authoritative context. You have the right to express your belief and then sit down and be quiet because your idea amounts to wild speculation. Speculation is not afforded certitude. When the idea of God acquires more support and evidence than the idea of leprechauns or the tooth fairy, you might then have something more to say.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 31, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> To quote myself...
> 
> I tend to believe polls, studies and surveys when they all report the same information. Polls can be selective, studies can be flawed, and surveys can have too small of a sample group, but no matter the method big or small, the results always show atheism is not seen as an acceptable position. As reported on the daily show recently, Americans distrust atheists more than they do terrorists. Any politician, no matter if he has the brain of Stephen Hawking, the looks of Johnny Depp, and the charisma of Oprah, can not get anywhere near a seat of power unless he also believes in God. How much more evidence do you need than our own president, the leader of our nation and it's policies, declaring atheists non-citizens? This is not just disapproval, but outright prejudice. Throw in the polices of organizations like the boy scouts and you have blatant discrimination.
> 
> It's fine to believe something on faith IF you understand what that means. It means you are not allowed to debate your idea, because you can not support it. It means you are not allowed to use your ideas to influence any sort of social or public policy, because you have no justification. You certainly are not allowed to teach your ideas in any sort of authoritative context. You have the right to express your belief and then sit down and be quiet because your idea amounts to wild speculation. Speculation is not afforded certitude. When the idea of God acquires more support and evidence than the idea of leprechauns or the tooth fairy, you might then have something more to say.


Standing ovation, well said.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 31, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> To quote myself...
> 
> I tend to believe polls, studies and surveys when they all report the same information. Polls can be selective, studies can be flawed, and surveys can have too small of a sample group, but no matter the method big or small, the results always show atheism is not seen as an acceptable position. As reported on the daily show recently, Americans distrust atheists more than they do terrorists. Any politician, no matter if he has the brain of Stephen Hawking, the looks of Johnny Depp, and the charisma of Oprah, can not get anywhere near a seat of power unless he also believes in God. How much more evidence do you need than our own president, the leader of our nation and it's policies, declaring atheists non-citizens? This is not just disapproval, but outright prejudice. Throw in the polices of organizations like the boy scouts and you have blatant discrimination.
> 
> It's fine to believe something on faith IF you understand what that means. *It means you are not allowed to debate your idea*, because you can not support it. It means you are not allowed to use your ideas to influence any sort of social or public policy, because you have no justification. You certainly are not allowed to teach your ideas in any sort of authoritative context. You have the right to express your belief and then sit down and be quiet because your idea amounts to wild speculation. Speculation is not afforded certitude. When the idea of God acquires more support and evidence than the idea of leprechauns or the tooth fairy, you might then have something more to say.


...but doesn't saying that mean the same thing as what is being said about atheists?


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## Heisenberg (Oct 31, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...but doesn't saying that mean the same thing as what is being said about atheists?


Only if you suppose that atheism is making some sort of claim. How much debating do you see going on here as opposed to defense and clarification? Atheist do not have an idea to debate because they are not initiating statements that represent a state of the world, they are simply responding to them. Remove theists, and atheists have nothing to say.

Does that mean theists should not discuss their ideas and engage in inquiry? Of course not. I am speaking about people who have reached the conclusion, as all responsible minded people do, that belief in a deity must be made on a leap of faith. At that point, you can present your idea to others, but you can not seriously expect to bring it into a contemplative debate. After all, what do you have to say that means anything? You would only be wasting time reiterating the things that brought you to the conclusion of faith. This is why we do not hear serious debates about the existence of gremlins and genies. It does no good to hear someone say "I believe in God because I want to", or, "I believe in God because I do not understand how to consistently evaluate evidence". If that is enough justification for you, then fine, but do not expect others to lend any honest respect. This of course extends to decisions on public policy and serious academic instruction.

I say "you" for the sake of simplicity of course, not referring to anyone particular.


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## sso (Oct 31, 2011)

this is one of the better reasonings ive seen.


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## sso (Oct 31, 2011)

on the god part, for myself.

"no comment"


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## spandy (Oct 31, 2011)

So there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. 

Thats as much as a leap of faith as believing in God.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 31, 2011)

I realized I referred to a quote from the former president without supplying it. 



> Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?
> 
> Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.


When pushed for an apology by American Athiests group, this was the response,



> As you are aware, the President is a religious man who neither supports atheism nor believes that atheism should be unnecessarily encouraged or supported by the government.


So not being convinced of God, is not to be encouraged by the government. Can we infer then that being convinced of God should be encouraged by the government? I think we can if we add in the sentiment that non believers are not citizens or patriots. 

This is why I think it is important to remind believers that their conclusions offer them no authority in matters of public policy, academics or serious debate.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 31, 2011)

spandy said:


> So there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.
> 
> Thats as much as a leap of faith as believing in God.


Indeed it is, but you have just described an idiot, not an atheist. I suggest you take the time to understand what atheism actually means before you foolishly repeat straw men.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 31, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Only if you suppose that atheism is making some sort of claim. How much debating do you see going on here as opposed to defense and clarification? Atheist do not have an idea to debate because they are not initiating statements that represent a state of the world, they are simply responding to them. Remove theists, and atheists have nothing to say.
> 
> Does that mean theists should not discuss their ideas and engage in inquiry? Of course not. I am speaking about people who have reached the conclusion, as all responsible minded people do, that belief in a deity must be made on a leap of faith. At that point, you can present your idea to others, but you can not seriously expect to bring it into a contemplative debate. After all, what do you have to say that means anything? You would only be wasting time reiterating the things that brought you to the conclusion of faith. This is why we do not hear serious debates about the existence of gremlins and genies. It does no good to hear someone say "I believe in God because I want to", or, "I believe in God because I do not understand how to consistently evaluate evidence". If that is enough justification for you, then fine, but do not expect others to lend any honest respect. This of course extends to decisions on public policy and serious academic instruction.
> 
> I say "you" for the sake of simplicity of course, not referring to anyone particular.


...that's fair. Thanks. I would like to assume that 'honest respect' comes first, followed by scrutiny... on both 'sides' of course.


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## spandy (Oct 31, 2011)

Foolishly huh, and you know this because you have died before? Dude, say it however you want, but fact is, is that you are on as much of a leap of faith as I am and neither of us will know until after we have died.

Lets hope for your sake you are right.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 31, 2011)

spandy said:


> Foolishly huh, and you know this because you have died before? Dude, say it however you want, but fact is, is that you are on as much of a leap of faith as I am and neither of us will know until after we have died.
> 
> Lets hope for your sake you are right.


It is foolish because no one is saying "nothing came from nothing". For you to repeat some mindless blurb you read without applying even the slightest thought is indeed foolish. Do you really believe that anyone out there is saying "nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself"? You really think atheists believe in magic? Atheism is an answer to the question "Do you believe in God?", and the answer is no. Atheists make no statements about how life, or the universe, began. In fact, atheists make no claims what so ever. It doesn't take much effort to put some stupid words into someones mouth and then criticize them, meanwhile you make no effort to address what atheists actually say.

&#8220;In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist." We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. *Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs*.&#8221; 
&#8213; Sam Harris


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 31, 2011)

sso said:


> this is one of the better reasonings ive seen.




...what is the metaphysical 'definition' of desert? Dry, barren... yet the most fertile environment there is.


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## BA142 (Nov 1, 2011)

spandy said:


> So there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs.
> 
> Thats as much as a leap of faith as believing in God.


If you actually understood the science behind it then you wouldn't sound like a complete idiot right now. Nice argument straw man

Saying "Nothing came from nothing" makes you sound like one of those idiot christian fundamentalists that believe the world is 6000 years old 

also,

[video=youtube;SSxgnu3Hww8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSxgnu3Hww8[/video]


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## spandy (Nov 1, 2011)

BA142 said:


> If you actually understood the science behind it then you wouldn't sound like a complete idiot right now. Nice argument straw man
> 
> Saying "Nothing came from nothing" makes you sound like one of those idiot christian fundamentalists that believe the world is 6000 years old


Dude, thats a fucking joke i posted stabbing at big bang theorists, get over it. i don't actually think they think that, nor do I. and I know that all atheist think is that God doesn't exist and thats it, they should of just been coined "non-believers" and only by believers only for the purpose of those who sought to divide the two groups for whatever reason (maybe they wanted to door knock and try to convert people, fuck who cares) and it left as informal as that, but hey you got your own word that defines you and you are in the dictionary so good for you I guess.

I'll keep my 7 minutes and 56 seconds. Dude I don't believe what you believe and wasting my time with your video isn't going to change that. This is all just for fun. I sure hope no one thought they were going to persuade anyones belief system in a pot growing forum. I've never converted an atheist thats for sure. Eh, fuck em, it's not my problem and never will be.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 2, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Indeed it is, but you have just described an idiot, not an atheist. I suggest you take the time to understand what atheism actually means before you foolishly repeat straw men.


Ahah (lol), he never said he was describing an atheist....

He didn't foolishly describe atheists.


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## rottenrichard00 (Nov 2, 2011)

There were never any Gods, they were all aliens. People say where did they go, they didnt go anywhere they are still here.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 2, 2011)

rottenrichard00 said:


> There were never any Gods, they were all aliens. People say where did they go, they didnt go anywhere they are still here.


Of course of course.... I smoked one out yesterday, his green radioactive slime fucked up my couch though. 

Oh, and he said he's had better weed, ungrateful bastard....


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## spandy (Nov 2, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Ahah (lol), he never said he was describing an atheist....
> 
> He didn't foolishly describe atheists.


Yeah, he didn't notice I wasn't talking to him anymore, lol.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 2, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Ahah (lol), he never said he was describing an atheist....
> 
> He didn't foolishly describe atheists.


He clearly understood the context, do you?


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 2, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> He clearly understood the context, do you?


It was a joke heis, that's why I put ahah.

What he posted is one of those demotivational pictures about atheism. 

I understand the whole situation (well not the whole situation, just from the part I jumped into). 

He didn't say that atheists believe in the big bang, but we get what he's getting at.
So IMO, he's saying atheists believe in the big bang. Well that's something that has nothing to do with atheism. Atheists just lack belief in god, it doesn't mean they believe in the big bang theory. <<<< I know you already know this.

Do you understand my joke? Or was it just horrible? 
My joke was that everyone assumed something that is very obvious but isn't flat out what said in his post. <<< this sentence doesn't really make sense lol. 

But then again, what if he wasn't talking about atheists? Then his post would make sense. Maybe he didn't put the "-atheism" (the "-atheism" part is at the end of the picture after all the big bang stuff) in his post because he wasn't talking about atheists. Maybe he's just assuming that most of the atheists that post in the religious section on RIU believe the big bang theory was the beginning of life (you can't blame him for assuming that). So to get some people off their high horse (not you), he made a comparison of the similarities between religious beliefs and the big bang theory and that they both require a leap of faith. 

Here's the picture I'm referring to....


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 2, 2011)

Man, it sucks making jokes or sarcastic remarks on the Internet haha.


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## sso (Nov 2, 2011)

yeah, sarcasm can be tricky to use on the internet lol.

i just find the idea of some allpowerful creator , just a really sucky one.

created by some being (that never comes for a proper visit)

just doesnt work for me.

plus the idea of god, really is illogical and spawns off too many questions.

and the idea of worship is just totally illogical, in real life, if anything wants you to worship it, you should run away or kill it.

i dont see the point of god.

i dont need some big mommy in the sky nor some strict father.

i dont need something to hold my hand and like i said, the idea of a creator, really spawns off, for now, too many unanswerable questions, so to really entertain the idea, is just a joke.

the idea of a creator, the creator would need a creator and the creator of the creator a creator, making the idea of a CREATOR, a joke.

it just doesnt work, on any level.

the only possible use i see for a "God" is sorta like Santa, a comfort for babies.


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## sso (Nov 2, 2011)

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.[1] In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.[2] Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.[3] Atheism is contrasted with theism,[4][5] which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.[5][6]
The term atheism originated from the Greek &#7940;&#952;&#949;&#959;&#962; (atheos), meaning "without god", which was applied with a negative connotation to those thought to reject the gods worshipped by the larger society. With the spread of freethought, skeptical inquiry, and subsequent increase in criticism of religion, application of the term narrowed in scope. The first individuals to identify themselves as "atheist" appeared in the 18th century.[7]
Atheists tend to be skeptical of supernatural claims, citing a lack of empirical evidence. Atheists have offered various rationales for not believing in any deity. These include the problem of evil, the argument from inconsistent revelations, and the argument from nonbelief. Other arguments for atheism range from the philosophical to the social to the historical. Although some atheists have adopted secular philosophies,[8][9] there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere.[10]
In Western culture, some atheists are frequently assumed to be irreligious,[citation needed] although other atheists are spiritual.[11][12] Moreover, atheism also figures in certain religious and spiritual belief systems, such as Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Neopagan movements[13] such as Wicca.[14] Jainism and some forms of Buddhism do not advocate belief in gods,[15] whereas Hinduism holds atheism to be valid, but difficult to follow spiritually.[16]
Since conceptions of atheism vary, determining how many atheists exist in the world today is no easy task.[17] According to one estimate, about 2.3% of the world's population are atheists, while a further 11.9% are nonreligious.[18] According to another, rates of self-reported atheism are among the highest in Western nations, again to varying degrees: United States (4%), Italy (7%), Spain (11%), Great Britain (17%), Germany (20%), and France (32%).[19]


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## Heisenberg (Nov 2, 2011)

> So to get some people off their high horse (not you), he made a comparison of the similarities between religious beliefs and the big bang theory and that they *both require a leap of faith.*


Ok, Hep, if you have been paying attention, what do I say when someone makes this claim?


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## spandy (Nov 2, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Ok, Hep, if you have been paying attention, what do I say when someone makes this claim?


A bunch of bullshit that some of us simply don't believe 


See, I believe God is greater than all things, including the science of men. So while you may think you are solving problems, I believe God is just watching you waste your time. Science may seem concrete to you, but to me God is not held under any rules of science, He is greater than all things. 

God has no physical presence in this world, therefore science is useless to me in the aspect that it proves anything about anything. Sure, we can do some cool stuff with science and I'm all for that, but it won't help anyone find where the came from.

See why believers and non-believers shouldn't talk about where they come from. Neither is ever going to sway the other unless they change what they believe.


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## mindphuk (Nov 2, 2011)

spandy said:


> A bunch of bullshit that some of us don't believe


 Yes, we understand you don't believe in logic. Anything new?


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 2, 2011)

What do you call Gods power? 'magic'? I would call it some super advanced form of science (if it existed).

Science doesnt prove anything and doesn't claim it does. This is a misunderstanding on your part.

Science has already explained where we come from.

Believers don't sway non believers because their arguments aren't convincing enough. Non believers don't sway believers because they can't accept the truth of reality and whatever personal implications that truth might hold.


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## spandy (Nov 2, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> He didn't say that atheists believe in the big bang, but we get what he's getting at.
> So IMO, he's saying atheists believe in the big bang.


 
No, you obviously don't get it, lol. 

I NEVER said atheist believe in the big bang, so according to the quote above you are half right. I made fun of the big bang theory by posting that there motivational poster thingy in words about explosions creating things, and then later said in other words that atheists should only be referred to as non-believers if you want to be PC. I think I made fun of aliens, big foot, and probably a few others.


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## spandy (Nov 2, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Non believers don't sway believers because they can't accept the truth of reality and whatever personal implications that truth might hold.


 
Truth is only a matter of perspective. You believe only what you can see, and thats your choice to do so. I have *faith* that there is more to life and death than what I can see, and no amount of your logic or your truth can rattle that 


Nu uh
Uh huh
Nu uh
Uh huh
Nu uh
Uh huh
Nu uh
Uh huh


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## Heisenberg (Nov 2, 2011)

spandy said:


> Truth is only a matter of perspective. You believe only what you can see, and thats your choice to do so. I have *faith* that there is more to life and death than what I can see, and no amount of your logic or your truth can rattle that


Why do you suppose we want to rattle your faith? We simply feel it necessary to point out that faith is a word you use when you have no other justification to cite. It is saying that you want to believe even when you can find no reason to. It provides a cradle for intellectual dishonesty. I have no problem with that as long as you understand your place. It's when you speak of matters that you haven't bothered to inform yourself about, such as the scientific method, that you will be corrected. When you make statements that are not well thought out, we will think them through for you. Most of us do not discount this forum simply because it's theme is cannabis. We like for our answers, our beliefs, to have some substance behind them. We like to feel tentative confidence which we gain by vetting our ideas and taking the time to explore the logic and implications. Why do not simply state what we believe, but why we believe it. When someone such as you comes along and supposes their speculative mussing deserves equal ground, we simply ask why. The answer always boils down to faith. All you seem to be able to do is state what you believe and reassure us that you believe it really hard. If that is your position then fine, but do not pretend that belief in a deity has any more validity than belief in werewolves.


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## anotherdaymusic (Nov 2, 2011)

If you have a few spare minutes, you should all watch this. its fun to learn.
[video=youtube;ijtipfO9vdU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijtipfO9vdU[/video]


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## cannabineer (Nov 2, 2011)

spandy said:


> Truth is only a matter of perspective. You believe only what you can see, and thats your choice to do so. I have *faith* that there is more to life and death than what I can see, and no amount of your logic or your truth can rattle that
> 
> 
> Nu uh
> ...


I cannot imagine _wanting_ to rattle your faith. What would be the point, other than victory in a sort of combat? In any case, actual faith cannot be rattled without some sort of personal cataclysm of cognition.

Imo the big problem occurs when people take their faith to a next level; deciding it is more than a personal vision of truth ... and then getting _educational_. Evangelism is the fruiting stage of a memetic pathogen - and unattractive no matter the source. cn


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## spandy (Nov 2, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Why do you suppose we want to rattle your faith? We simply feel it necessary to point out that faith is a word you use when you have no other justification to cite. It is saying that you want to believe even when you can find no reason to. It provides a cradle for intellectual dishonesty. I have no problem with that as long as you understand your place. It's when you speak of matters that you haven't bothered to inform yourself about, such as the scientific method, that you will be corrected. When you make statements that are not well thought out, we will think them through for you. Most of us do not discount this forum simply because it's theme is cannabis. We like for our answers, our beliefs, to have some substance behind them. We like to feel tentative confidence which we gain by vetting our ideas and taking the time to explore the logic and implications. Why do not simply state what we believe, but why we believe it. When someone such as you comes along and supposes their speculative mussing deserves equal ground, we simply ask why. The answer always boils down to faith. All you seem to be able to do is state what you believe and reassure us that you believe it really hard. If that is your position then fine, but do not pretend that belief in a deity has any more validity than belief in werewolves.


 
When did I say I believe but have no reason to, or is this another one of your blanket statements? This is a thread about why you don't believe, so thats probably why I haven't wasted my time diving in and getting serious with a bunch of non-believers. You guys can hash it out, like I said, i'm just here for fun. 

Yeah yeah, werewolves, aliens, big foot,etc. I believe you've mentioned that more than once already. Tooth fairy is one I've heard before as well, more than werewolves to be honest. Werewolves were actually my childhood fear, I always was hoping that it was just a ghost in the closet if something was in there waiting to get me.


And are you sure you are rattling my cage? I think the simple fact that my "speculative mussing" made you even care, let alone ask "why" says something. Maybe you are rattling your own cage? Why?

I discount this webiste for many reasons. One, many of you still live with you parents. And two, the fucking home page hasn't been changed in forever, wtf?


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## spandy (Nov 2, 2011)

anotherdaymusic said:


> If you have a few spare minutes, you should all watch this. its fun to learn.


Sorry, it violates my 2 minute rule. Damn.....


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 2, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> I cannot imagine _wanting_ to rattle your faith. What would be the point, other than victory in a sort of combat? In any case, actual faith cannot be rattled without some sort of personal cataclysm of cognition.
> 
> Imo the big problem occurs when people take their faith to a next level; deciding it is more than a personal vision of truth ... and then getting _educational_. Evangelism is the fruiting stage of a memetic pathogen - and unattractive no matter the source. cn


...man, you really have something. It's pretty cool when you post something like this. I'm not hiding around the corner waiting for you to post, I'll just be coming by randomly and bang, a twig in the eye.

Here's something I just read in the last couple of days regarding those who believe in (...)

*The fundamental right to religious liberty*
All persons have a right to religious liberty, a right with its foundation in the essential dignity of each human being. All persons must be free to seek the truth without coercion. The highest norm of human life is the divine law and truth, but it can only be sought after in the proper and free manner, with the aid of teaching or instruction, communication and dialogue, and it must be adhered to by personal assent. This freedom from coercion in religious affairs must also be recognized as a right when persons act in community. As such a community, and in fact a society in its own original right, has the right to live its own domestic religious life in freedom, in particular the freedom to choose religious education.


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## spandy (Nov 2, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> I cannot imagine _wanting_ to rattle your faith. What would be the point, other than victory in a sort of combat? In any case, actual faith cannot be rattled without some sort of personal cataclysm of cognition.
> 
> Imo the big problem occurs when people take their faith to a next level; deciding it is more than a personal vision of truth ... and then getting _educational_. Evangelism is the fruiting stage of a memetic pathogen - and unattractive no matter the source. cn


So what, you are telling me that you think I shouldn't be allowed to tell others about God? Wow, what country are we in again? 

What does history tell you about people who say that others shouldn't be allowed to freely teach their religion? Well, it starts with someone saying it, then someone doing it, and then before you know it tens of thousands of people have been killed over words.

tell you what, I'll teach who ever wants to be taught, and if you have a problem with that, start a war and we can fight it out like they used to. But be warned, we are still talking about it so that should tell you who has won those wars. 2.5 billion strong, bring it


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## mindphuk (Nov 2, 2011)

spandy said:


> So what, you are telling me that you think I shouldn't be allowed to tell others about God? Wow, what country are we in again?
> 
> What does history tell you about people who say that others shouldn't be allowed to freely teach their religion? Well, it starts with someone saying it, then someone doing it, and then before you know it tens of thousands of people have been killed over words.
> 
> tell you what, I'll teach who ever wants to be taught, and if you have a problem with that, start a war and we can fight it out like they used to. But be warned, we are still talking about it so that should tell you who has won those wars. 2.5 billion strong, bring it


 You have a problem parsing the English language? No where did 'neer say he would try to stop you or force anyone to stop evangelizing. People find things distasteful all of the time but don't attempt to violate their right to do it. That tends to be the domain of the religionists that use the police power of government to make sure everyone is acting according to how they think their god wants us to.


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## beardo (Nov 2, 2011)

Because I'm possesed by Satan


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## cannabineer (Nov 2, 2011)

spandy said:


> So what, *you are telling me that you think I shouldn't be allowed to tell others about God?* Wow, what country are we in again?
> 
> What does history tell you about people who say that others shouldn't be allowed to freely teach their religion? Well, it starts with someone saying it, then someone doing it, and then before you know it tens of thousands of people have been killed over words.
> 
> tell you what, I'll teach who ever wants to be taught, and if you have a problem with that, start a war and we can fight it out like they used to. But be warned, we are still talking about it so that should tell you who has won those wars. 2.5 billion strong, bring it


Oho; if I actually held that position I would be a hypocrite. I find evangelism distasteful. However if I were to generate or support a campaign to oppose or thwart religious evangelism, what would I be doing? Something ... distasteful. 

To me the very essence of pluralism is this:
"What you are saying is awful, stupid, nonsensical, ugly, counterproductive and causes tumors in baby pandas. However I will defend to the death your right to say it." Jmo. cn


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## spandy (Nov 3, 2011)

FUCK, I totally missed the paraphrase. My bad dude, i stand down on that one.


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## cannabitch81 (Nov 5, 2011)

ThE sAtIvA hIgH said:


> exactly if its open to intepratation i could literaly interpratate it to mean absolutely ANYTHING i like .
> and btw untill recently they did , agree with everything of the bible , its only recently that they have changed there ideas and are dismisssing the bible.its a flawed tactic .


So funny, i had this very conversation today. In my opinion if religious groups didn't change with the times and give new interpretation to the bible, they would lose tons of members which = money.


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## Zaehet Strife (Nov 8, 2011)

it isnt that i do not believe... it is that,


i do not know


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 8, 2011)

Zaehet Strife said:


> it isnt that i do not believe... it is that,
> 
> 
> i do not know


...seems ripe with possibility to me.


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 9, 2011)

There is a God, he is a man. God is not myth. I will tell anyone, for an absolute fact, there is a God. I'm not in any way a bible thumper, or very religious at all, or trying to preach, but there is a God, you may find him in death, or possibly within your lifetime.


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 9, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> There is a God, he is a man. God is not myth. I will tell anyone, for an absolute fact, there is a God. I'm not in any way a bible thumper, or very religious at all, or trying to preach, but there is a God, you may find him in death, or possibly within your lifetime.


...it's been about 5 hours since you posted this. So far, I see no dung heaps lofted at you. Not bad!


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 9, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> There is a God, he is a man. God is not myth. I will tell anyone, for an absolute fact, there is a God. I'm not in any way a bible thumper, or very religious at all, or trying to preach, but there is a God, you may find him in death, or possibly within your lifetime.


What is the point of making this statement?


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## tyler.durden (Nov 9, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> There is a God, he is a man. God is not myth. I will tell anyone, for an absolute fact, there is a God. I'm not in any way a bible thumper, or very religious at all, or trying to preach, but there is a God, you may find him in death, or possibly within your lifetime.


Or possibly behind the sofa, I'm always finding forgotten shit there...


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 10, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What is the point of making this statement?



I was hoping to get quoted 3 times + respect lvl up, but I didn't get the 'spect up yet. So fail.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 10, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> I was hoping to get quoted 3 times + respect lvl up, but I didn't get the 'spect up yet. So fail.


How do you know there is a god?


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 11, 2011)

Hes special and god speaks to him in his mind .


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## ThE sAtIvA hIgH (Nov 11, 2011)

my next reason i dont believe in a god is because i can think for myself .


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 11, 2011)

"god gave you the ability to think for yourself."


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 12, 2011)

God spoke to me 3 years ago, and I don't really care if anyone believes me or not. See, I know he's real for a fact, while it's was hard for me to believe when I was young, you simply speculate his existence. I did too as well. I'll sit back and contemplate on some being more than haters. All I'm saying is, there is a God. What's so hard to comprehend about that?


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 12, 2011)

If god told you to kill yourself, your child, or someone else, would you do it?


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## cannabineer (Nov 12, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> God spoke to me 3 years ago, and I don't really care if anyone believes me or not. See, I know he's real for a fact, while it's was hard for me to believe when I was young, you simply speculate his existence. I did too as well. I'll sit back and contemplate on some being more than haters. All I'm saying is, there is a God. What's so hard to comprehend about that?


The God-experience is subjective and individual. You have had one and I do not challenge that. However I think you reach too far when you declaratively universalize your experience (All I'm saying is [that] there is a God.), and use a rhetorical device to make dissenters seem stupid (What's so hard to comprehend about that?). Because you have had one does not mean that I did, or will or (the important part) should. cn


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 12, 2011)

If you had a vision, and in the vision a "god-like" presence tells you there is a god, that could change your life and has the potential to turn a non-believer into a believer. You would make a connection between the vision, and the existence of god.

If you had a vision, and in the vision a "god-like" presence tells you there *isn't* a god, you would just chalk it up to some crazy vision with no meaning. 


I argue that both of these experiences hold the same merit, and should be given the same amount of consideration; but, people *want* to believe so they just ignore the "misses" and keep track of the "hits".


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 12, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> If you had a vision, and in the vision a "god-like" presence tells you there is a god, that could change your life and has the potential to turn a non-believer into a believer. You would make a connection between the vision, and the existence of god.
> 
> If you had a vision, and in the vision a "god-like" presence tells you there *isn't* a god, you would just chalk it up to some crazy vision with no meaning.
> 
> ...


...that's a cool thought. I think that by nature all people want to track the hits because that reflects their interior state. I think a 'warrior on the block' hunts white elephant


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 13, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> If you had a vision, and in the vision a "god-like" presence tells you there is a god, that could change your life and has the potential to turn a non-believer into a believer. You would make a connection between the vision, and the existence of god.
> 
> If you had a vision, and in the vision a "god-like" presence tells you there *isn't* a god, you would just chalk it up to some crazy vision with no meaning.
> 
> ...



No, I wouldn't say that because, conversely, they would be two totally different visions or thoughts, and naturally, as a miss that's all you would chalk it up as. At least that's what I would think. It's those very unfamiliar situations and reasons or experiences to really strike a nerve in our psyche to combine that sort of an experience to something attributed to God. At least in my opinion. A vision from God is extremely different than that of our human imagination I'd have to say.


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 13, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> The God-experience is subjective and individual. You have had one and I do not challenge that. However I think you reach too far when you declaratively universalize your experience (All I'm saying is [that] there is a God.), and use a rhetorical device to make dissenters seem stupid (What's so hard to comprehend about that?). Because you have had one does not mean that I did, or will or (the important part) should. cn


My experience absolutely was individual, and I wanted to come in here and say, from my own account, if I could add an argument for God instead of against him, especially from my experience, I would and will. And like I said, I didn't believe one nasty bit. There is no god, I'd mumble, and continue on my day. Especially when Im making an argument for my life over some bad shit, like theft, or lying. I've stolen, I've lied. I'm not perfect. But that's how I'd relate my experiences because I am one to commit god into my habits of what is good and bad...such as "sin". I'm not trying to be a jerk, a high handed preacher or to try and rub God in anyone's face. I'm telling you my experience and damn me to hell if I'm lying. I can't prove it but, I'd like to tell you about it. 

My rhetoric stems absolutely from the thread itself. As in, I hope I'm talking to the people in this thread as well as outside of it too. "Whats so hard to comprehend about that" I wrapped in the end because of the natural denial of god to me now is hard to comprehend from my experience that day. Sorry to be rude. 

Its not the context I'd like to dissect, moreover, the denial of God himself, and that I would like to say, he does infact, exist. What he wants, and seemingly what I want, seem to be very different things sometimes.


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 13, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> If god told you to kill yourself, your child, or someone else, would you do it?



Without question. Because I'm absolutely positive, that I can discern my own voice, compared to Gods'. I'd hope you could tell the difference too. And let me tell ya, it's not hard. Because if God ever spoke to you, you'd know it.


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## mindphuk (Nov 13, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> Without question. Because I'm absolutely positive, that I can discern my own voice, compared to Gods'. I'd hope you could tell the difference too. And let me tell ya, it's not hard. Because if God ever spoke to you, you'd know it. Believe me.


IMO that makes you a very dangerous person and people should stay the fuck away from you.


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 13, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> IMO that makes you a very dangerous person and people should stay the fuck away from you.


Bro, imagine you just heard God ask you to do something, you gonna twiddle your thumbs all day and think about it and pace the floor?


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 13, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> Without question. Because I'm absolutely positive, that I can discern my own voice, compared to Gods'. I'd hope you could tell the difference too. And let me tell ya, it's not hard. Because if God ever spoke to you, you'd know it.


Tell that to a schizophrenic... when you start having psychosomatic auditory hallucinations you can comment on how "easy" it is to tell your voice apart from "gods".

God, if it were real, would have the ability to convey its exact message without saying anything to anyone. Everyone would just know, and since we *don't* just "know", it stands to reason that god isn't talking to anyone. The people who hear god speak are more than likely mentally ill.


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 13, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> Tell that to a schizophrenic... when you start having psychosomatic auditory hallucinations you can comment on how "easy" it is to tell your voice apart from "gods".


Well, I'm sure there's some nutty skitzo's out there. But, ya like I said, you'd know it.


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 13, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> Well, I'm sure there's some nutty skitzo's out there. But, ya like I said, you'd know it.


No. You don't. That's the entire point, to a schizophrenic their inner dialogue doesn't seem to be coming from "them". It's from elsewhere, outside their mind; when in all actuallity they've just lost the ability to discern what is reality and what is not.

No un-medicated schizophrenic *knows* for a fact that everything is in their head. I take it you've never done any psychology or worked with mentally challenged and disabled people?


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 13, 2011)

Beefbisquit said:


> No. You don't. That's the entire point, to a schizophrenic their inner dialogue doesn't seem to be coming from "them". It's from elsewhere, outside their mind; when in all actuallity they've just lost the ability to discern what is reality and what is not.
> 
> No un-medicated schizophrenic *knows* for a fact that everything is in their head. I take it you've never done any psychology or worked with mentally challenged and disabled people?


Beefy, youre reaching quite far and wide to compare my experience with yours, or maybe I should say, if you're a psychologist, your clients. I would like to talk about the existence, or to some the non-existence of God, not about the inner workings of a schitz brother. Never seen one, don't know any, and if I did I'd stay the hell away. Although my human compassion runs deep for some, most others I can refrain from sir. And no, personally I have never delved into the social economics of a nut bro.


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 13, 2011)

How do you *know* it's God?

Don't just say "once you hear it you'll know too". The state of knowledge requires proof, so how would you prove to someone the voices you attribute to God are actually that, difinitively? And if you can't prove it, what value does adding "god is real whether you believe it or not" to the conversation have?


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 13, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> How do you *know* it's God?
> 
> Don't just say "once you hear it you'll know too". The state of knowledge requires proof, so how would you prove to someone the voices you attribute to God are actually that, difinitively? And if you can't prove it, what value does adding "god is real whether you believe it or not" to the conversation have?


No proof whatsoever. Sorry to interrupt your party of reasons for no God. Please continue.


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## mindphuk (Nov 13, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> Bro, imagine you just heard God ask you to do something, you gonna twiddle your thumbs all day and think about it and pace the floor?


How does one determine a voice is god? Because it says so? Wouldn't a demon lie about it? Wouldn't a delusion like David Berkowitz had fall under the same category? If you would honestly kill someone because of a voice in your head, you are dangerous, period, no question.


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## 420God (Nov 13, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> Without question. Because I'm absolutely positive, that I can discern my own voice, compared to Gods'. I'd hope you could tell the difference too. And let me tell ya, it's not hard. Because if God ever spoke to you, you'd know it.


 Lol, there are so many people in prison that have said that god told them to kill someone or do other horrible deeds. You think you're different? Fucking crazies.


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 13, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> How does one determine a voice is god? Because it says so? Wouldn't a demon lie about it? Wouldn't a delusion like David Berkowitz had fall under the same category? If you would honestly kill someone because of a voice in your head, you are dangerous, period, no question.


Bro truthfully, I compounded and took Paddy's question in a general regard, "if god asked you to do this would you do it" not specifically to kill. So jeez... And ya, haha, a demon or ghost or thing talking to me, umm no there are no ghosts and such. I know and understand very clearly what I heard that day.

Really, it scared the shit out of me that morning. He didn't talk back, he didn't reply, that was it. I was mind fucked for more than 2 years. In a state of fear and numbness like I don't care. Life, still naturally goes on, I still get up in the morning, put on my clothes, go to work, lead the same life, do the same old shit. I think you guys are giving me way to much shit. Well fine then, see if I care. I'm telling ya there is a God.


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 13, 2011)

420God said:


> Lol, there are so many people in prison that have said that god told them to kill someone or do other horrible deeds. You think you're different? Fucking crazies.


Yes, I'm alot different, I've got meh freedom! Well, maybe until God says to go kill someone I guess hmmm.



Beefbisquit said:


> People think they're experts on the mind because they have one. My goal was to show how little you know (or me for that matter) about the mind. Just hearing a voice in your head is not sufficient enough evidence to proclaim god exists. There are any number of non-supernatural explanations that are infinitely more likely to happen than a deity whispering into your ear...
> 
> You claim to be able to "know" gods voice in contrast to your own, but that's the exact same claim someone who is mentally ill would make. No one that's crazy *thinks *they're crazy...
> 
> ...



Hey, just tellin' you God is real, not trying to make garbage jokes and questions unrelated. I feel more than comfortable in saying there is a god surely by the voice I heard that day. Just saying, for a fact, there is a God. That's all. Seems to me, you would like to think there IS a God even by being in this thread in the first place. Okay, if your listing your reasons not for God, I would just like to express my reasons for God, thank you.


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 13, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> Beefy, youre reaching quite far and wide to compare my experience with yours, or maybe I should say, if you're a psychologist, your clients. I would like to talk about the existence, or to some the non-existence of God, not about the inner workings of a schitz brother. Never seen one, don't know any, and if I did I'd stay the hell away. Although my human compassion runs deep for some, most others I can refrain from sir. And no, personally I have never delved into the social economics of a nut bro.



People think they're experts on the mind because they have one. My goal was to show how little you know (or me for that matter) about the mind. Just hearing a voice in your head is not sufficient enough evidence to proclaim god exists. There are any number of non-supernatural explanations that are infinitely more likely to happen than a deity whispering into your ear...

You claim to be able to "know" gods voice in contrast to your own, but that's the exact same claim someone who is mentally ill would make. No one that's crazy *thinks *they're crazy...


I worked in a center for the mentally challenged and mentally disabled, no one checks themselves in bud....


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## mindphuk (Nov 13, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> Bro truthfully, I compounded and took Paddy's question in a general regard, "if god asked you to do this would you do it" not specifically to kill.


Yet that was the crux of the entire question now wasn't it? 



> Just saying, for a fact, there is a God.


Yet you cannot make that claim. The most you can say is that you heard something that YOU believe was god. That it was an independent event and no one, sane or otherwise, can tell for sure that a particular voice in their head is god. The Koren helmet has reproduced similar results experimentally. Individual revelation never can be used as proof there is a god for anyone but the individual.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 13, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> Hey, just tellin' you God is real, not trying to make garbage jokes and questions unrelated. I feel more than comfortable in saying there is a god surely by the voice I heard that day. Just saying, for a fact, there is a God. That's all. Seems to me, you would like to think there IS a God even by being in this thread in the first place. Okay, if your listing your reasons not for God, I would just like to express my reasons for God, thank you.


Your personal experience may be enough for you, but surely you don't expect us to give it any weight. If I were to have a vision in my mind that clearly and without question proved to me that gremlins were real, you wouldn't give it any real consideration either. That is because we live in a world where we all agree that statements which represent a state of reality require evidential rationale. It is not enough to simply say "I saw a dragon in my dream, therefore they are real". For us to really believe in dragons we need bones, scales, lairs, pictures, ect. Something more than just reassurance from someones imagination. You should see how God is no exception. While we can not conclusively say to you that your experience was not divine, we have no obligation to consider it anything other than a story. So, quit saying God exists for a fact, unless you are also willing to say the same about succubi, mermaids, genies and ghosts.


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## cannabineer (Nov 13, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> My experience absolutely was individual, and I wanted to come in here and say, from my own account, if I could add an argument for God instead of against him, especially from my experience, I would and will. And like I said, I didn't believe one nasty bit. There is no god, I'd mumble, and continue on my day. Especially when Im making an argument for my life over some bad shit, like theft, or lying. I've stolen, I've lied. I'm not perfect. But that's how I'd relate my experiences because I am one to commit god into my habits of what is good and bad...such as "sin". I'm not trying to be a jerk, a high handed preacher or to try and rub God in anyone's face. I'm telling you my experience and damn me to hell if I'm lying. I can't prove it but, I'd like to tell you about it.
> 
> My rhetoric stems absolutely from the thread itself. As in, I hope I'm talking to the people in this thread as well as outside of it too. "Whats so hard to comprehend about that" I wrapped in the end because of the natural denial of god to me now is hard to comprehend from my experience that day.* Sorry to be rude. *
> 
> Its not the context I'd like to dissect, moreover, the denial of God himself, and that I would like to say, he does infact, exist. _What he wants, and seemingly what I want, seem to be very different things sometimes_.


The bolded part is gracious, snowmanexpress - thanks!

The last sentence intrigues me. How can you tell what God wants? 

When i was much younger I had a God-experience that was specific and, for a while, quite compelling. However as time has gone by I have concluded that its source was internal after all ... a rarely-played trick of my human neuroanatomy. I am NOT saying this to rebut your certainty that God is real, but imo someone saying "God is real" and leaving it at that is essentially harmless; it's without consequence beyond the experiencer. It's the second message, "God has something to say, and I have some insight into it" where the trouble begins imo. Since that message (which you don't specify, and that earns you some respect from me!) would have an effect on me, my ideals and behaviors, I'd need to see some way to test the verity andor utility of the statement. Thousands of years of human religious history strongly suggest to me that that is difficult. cn


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 14, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> The bolded part is gracious, snowmanexpress - thanks!
> 
> The last sentence intrigues me. How can you tell what God wants?
> 
> When i was much younger I had a God-experience that was specific and, for a while, quite compelling. However as time has gone by I have concluded that its source was internal after all ... a rarely-played trick of my human neuroanatomy. I am NOT saying this to rebut your certainty that God is real, but imo someone saying "God is real" and leaving it at that is essentially harmless; it's without consequence beyond the experiencer. It's the second message, "God has something to say, and I have some insight into it" where the trouble begins imo. Since that message (which you don't specify, and that earns you some respect from me!) would have an effect on me, my ideals and behaviors, I'd need to see some way to test the verity andor utility of the statement. Thousands of years of human religious history strongly suggest to me that that is difficult. cn


Hey, thanks man. No, I have no idea what God "wants" but, ya any instance of god intermingling with human life is inspiring to me! I agree that it can also be not real, and simply not believable to a point or so mundane to not care in a way. I also bear the humility of sprawling my thoughts on you guys, and as I look back, don't think it's wrong of me to do that and explain myself a slightly, and to say I do not take medication, I don't have weird thoughts, and it was purely God's voice I indeed had heard that morning on that day in my life, with 100 percent certainty, not a mermaid, green alien, or a mindpuke demon haha. Sorry, I don't have a message from God himself, no, all I'm saying is God does exist because he spoke to me one day. It might be a joke to you but, if you can understand, it's a big deal to me. And, truthfully, in part I think i entered this thread not to say there is a God, but to look for help from you guys to help me out a little bit, I think I'm kinda reaching out in a way, and you all are kinda rippin me up slightly, that's to be expected but c'mon I think I'm human too last time I went to the doctor.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> There is a God, he is a man. God is not myth. I will tell anyone, for an absolute fact, there is a God. I'm not in any way a bible thumper, or very religious at all, or trying to preach, but there is a God, you may find him in death, or possibly within your lifetime.


 Last time I checked, death is not a man that is god. Maybe I should just check again. Either way it's no fact buddy....


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## cannabineer (Nov 14, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> Hey, thanks man. No, I have no idea what God "wants" but, ya any instance of god intermingling with human life is inspiring to me! I agree that it can also be not real, and simply not believable to a point or so mundane to not care in a way. I also bear the humility of sprawling my thoughts on you guys, and as I look back, don't think it's wrong of me to do that and explain myself a slightly, and to say I do not take medication, I don't have weird thoughts, and it was purely God's voice I indeed had heard that morning on that day in my life, with 100 percent certainty, not a mermaid, green alien, or a mindpuke demon haha. Sorry, I don't have a message from God himself, no, all I'm saying is God does exist because he spoke to me one day. It might be a joke to you but, if you can understand, it's a big deal to me. And, truthfully, in part I think i entered this thread not to say there is a God, *but to look for help from you guys to help me out a little bit,* I think I'm kinda reaching out in a way, and you all are kinda rippin me up slightly, that's to be expected but c'mon I think I'm human too last time I went to the doctor.


I missed the request/question ... please repeat it?
I am not deliberately "rippin" on you, snowmanexpress. Although I am an agnostic, I am by no means the theological equivalent of an antismoker. 
Many of the full atheists here aren't above a bit of "evangelizing" of their own however, so posting in a thread with this one's title should be approached with the same awareness as a surfer sharing the water with those annoying triangular fins sticling up ... cn


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Last time I checked, death is not a man that is god. Maybe I should just check again. Either way it's no fact buddy....


Death is not a man called God. I never said that. And to put my quote along with that sentence is kinda stretching to slightly refute, and twist my experience I'd say. It's a fact to me, anyway. And I would like to tell you it's true, yes, there is a God.


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 14, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> I missed the request/question ... please repeat it?
> I am not deliberately "rippin" on you, snowmanexpress. Although I am an agnostic, I am by no means the theological equivalent of an antismoker.
> Many of the full atheists here aren't above a bit of "evangelizing" of their own however, so posting in a thread with this one's title should be approached with the same awareness as a surfer sharing the water with those annoying triangular fins sticling up ... cn


No, no I didn't mean specifically you, sorry to aim that at you or anybody for that matter in my quote. I'm just y'know, looking to rationalize my thoughts as well, and I got nothing much else to do on rollitup anymore. I'm done searching for how to's and stuff, now I'm a Pro, now I go around to the fun threads, no I'm just kidding heheh.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> If god told you to kill yourself, your child, or someone else, would you do it?


Honestly, no....


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> Death is not a man called God. I never said that. And to put my quote along with that sentence is kinda stretching to slightly refute, and twist my experience I'd say. It's a fact to me, anyway. And I would like to tell you it's true, yes, there is a God.


you said "there is a god, he is a man", then you said we may find him in death. How do you know he exists as a fact? It is not a fact to you, it is a belief (which is alright).


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> you said "there is a god, he is a man", then you said we may find him in death. How do you know he exists as a fact? It is not a fact to you, it is a belief (which is alright).


My mistake I misunderstood you, I meant we may find him in death, because after we die, I believe in heaven and hell, I believe after death everybody would find God. And in that way though death, I meant that we would eventually find God or like me, or many other people who have heard the voice of god, possibly within your lifetime. And yes, infact God did speak to me, it was a man's voice I heard, and spoke in english, it was in the morning, I woke up and put my feet on the floor, I remember clearly waking up that morning, and putting my feet on the floor and sitting up like I usually do. I cannot give you any concrete evidence at all, I know that and so do you. I'm not lying or in here to play the fool. All I can say, infact, there is a God.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> My mistake I misunderstood you, I meant we may find him in death, because after we die, I believe in heaven and hell, I believe after death everybody would find God. And in that way though death, I meant that we would eventually find God or like me, or many other people who have heard the voice of god, possibly within your lifetime. And yes, infact God did speak to me, I cannot give you any concrete evidence at all, I know that and so do you. I'm not lying or in here to play the fool. All I can say, infact, there is a God.


It's all good man, .

You're just gonna stick to your beliefs and call them facts, but don't expect people to really listen to you. 

I'm not gonna call god a fact since I have no proof at all. 
All I can say is I hope there is a loving god. If not, well that's fine with me. It's bittersweet.

What exactly did god say to you my friend?


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> It's all good man, .
> 
> You're just gonna stick to your beliefs and call them facts, but don't expect people to really listen to you.
> 
> ...


Maybe nobody will believe, but I just wanted to maybe add my thoughts to this thread for some reason. And I don't want to say what I have heard.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> Maybe nobody will believe, but I just wanted to maybe add my thoughts to this thread for some reason. And I don't want to say what I have heard.


I respect your beliefs, but nobody else says it's a fact that god doesn't exist, so I don't think you should call your beliefs facts. Are you worried that people will bash on what god said to you? If that's the case, pm me what he said.


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I respect your beliefs,THANKS..... but nobody else says it's a fact that god doesn't exist, NEITHER AM I.... so I don't think you should call your beliefs facts. WHY NOT I HEARD HIS VOICE FOR A FACT......?? Are you worried that people will bash on what god said to you? YES..... If that's the case, pm me what he said. NO THANKS......


I respect your beliefs,THANKS WHATS SAD ABOUT ME IS I CAN ONLY RESPECT YOURS IF YOU SAY THERE IS A GOD, ISN'T THAT KINDA SCREWY OF ME....SORRY TO DO THAT TO YOU BUT I NEED TO EMPHASIZE THERE IS A LIVING GOD.

but nobody else says it's a fact that god doesn't exist, NEITHER AM I....BUT I CAN THINK OF A COUPLE PEOPLE OFF HAND LIKE, DAWKINS POSSIBLY, BUT TO AN EFFECT, AS CREATIVE AS HIS THOUGHTS ARE, YOU WONDER IF INSTINCTIVELY HE WOULD HOPE FOR A GOD TOO. AND IT'S JUST A BIG JOKE ANYWAY TO MAKE A COUPLE BUCKS, WHY NOT.

so I don't think you should call your beliefs facts. WHY NOT? I HEARD HIS VOICE FOR A FACT AND CAN GUARANTEE WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY TO YOU THERE IS A GOD...

Are you worried that people will bash on what god said to you? YES.....

If that's the case, pm me what he said. NO THANKS.....


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## Jakabok Botch (Nov 14, 2011)

just a couple... 
[video=youtube;NviLvMRbGoE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NviLvMRbGoE&list=LLHvk-_04U1uN2pUjkNdIs3g&index=11&feature=plpp_video[/video]


[video=youtube;aRc9qkhVQQs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRc9qkhVQQs&feature=channel_video_title[/video]

[video=youtube;lR72G8dRh4k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR72G8dRh4k&feature=channel_video_title[/video]

there are better but i too stoned to find em


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> I respect your beliefs,THANKS WHATS SAD ABOUT ME IS I CAN ONLY RESPECT YOURS IF YOU SAY THERE IS A GOD, ISN'T THAT KINDA SCREWY OF ME....SORRY TO DO THAT TO YOU BUT I NEED TO EMPHASIZE THERE IS A LIVING GOD.
> 
> but nobody else says it's a fact that god doesn't exist, NEITHER AM I....BUT I CAN THINK OF A COUPLE PEOPLE OFF HAND LIKE, DAWKINS POSSIBLY, BUT TO AN EFFECT, AS CREATIVE AS HIS THOUGHTS ARE, YOU WONDER IF INSTINCTIVELY HE WOULD HOPE FOR A GOD TOO. AND IT'S JUST A BIG JOKE ANYWAY TO MAKE A COUPLE BUCKS, WHY NOT.
> 
> ...


I do believe in god, but I don't want your respect just because of my beliefs. By giving respect just based on beliefs, you're no better than some athiests that disrespect religious people based on the religious persons beliefs. 

You did say it was a fact, you can't say that you didn't say god is a fact.

I guess you heard his voice, but it doesn't make god a fact dude.

Why not pm me what he said? I'm very curious and will not bash on your beliefs. 

Let's stop going around in circles, .


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## Padawanbater2 (Nov 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Honestly, no....


"then you're an atheist" - Penn G.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

Padawanbater2 said:


> "then you're an atheist" - Penn G.


Whaaa? Lol, nah man I'm not an atheist. I'm just another religious guy, but I do have logic and would never kill anyone. 

.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> Whaaa? Lol, nah man I'm not an atheist. I'm just another religious guy, but I do have logic and would never kill anyone.
> 
> .


I think the point is that you don't have complete trust in God. If you believed god was all powerful and all knowing and inherently good, then you would have to carry out his command to kill your baby and trust he had good reason. Remember the hypothetical premise says that you are convinced it is god and are sure of his message. If you would refuse to do as he asked then you have some serious doubts about god. This question is designed to get people to be specific about what they believe. If you are not athiest, yet do not believe in an omniscient god, then what do you believe in? Someone who is powerful enough to create everything yet not responsible enough to oversee it? Doesn't much sound like a god worthy of worship.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

I would definitely doubt gods power and lose trust for him if he would make me kill someone for no reason. But having doubts about gods master plan doesn't make me a atheist, it makes me a hypocrite.


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I would definitely doubt gods power and lose trust for him if he would make me kill someone for no reason. *But having doubts about gods master plan doesn't make me a atheist, it makes me a hypocrite*.


...human, it makes you human


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## Dislexicmidget2021 (Nov 14, 2011)

Humans are intransicaly perfect belonging to the universe,It is every mind of mankind that questions and contests this perfection that is afflicted with doubt and delusion.By Questioning and contesting this meaning I mean to say we have complicated the simplicity of existence with the minds ego,thus so many need to believe or feel the need to believe in God.Take the god complex out of the line of thinking all together and you have yourself,maybe even the truth of self.But of course one must venture outside of their comfort zones of belief first,then the undertaking of truth begins.


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 14, 2011)

Dislexicmidget2021 said:


> Humans are intransicaly perfect belonging to the universe,It is every mind of mankind that questions and contests this perfection that is afflicted with doubt and delusion.By Questioning and contesting this meaning I mean to say we have complicated the simplicity of existence with the minds ego,thus so many need to believe or feel the need to believe in God.Take the god complex out of the line of thinking all together and you have yourself,maybe even the truth of self.But of course one must venture outside of their comfort zones of belief first,then the undertaking of truth begins.


..."cut off the head", they say. There are 2 obvious meanings here.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> I would definitely doubt gods power and lose trust for him if he would make me kill someone for no reason. But having doubts about gods master plan doesn't make me a atheist, it makes me a hypocrite.


I'm not sure it makes you atheist or hypocritical, I think it means you are confused and unfocused about what you believe. Any sane person would question a command from God to kill, but not many have stopped to think about what this means. It means you feel that you may know better than God. It means you are not convinced of his glory. It means you do not take to heart most of what the bible says (which we already knew). It means, above all, that you trust in yourself. Perhaps the God standing behind you and guiding your intuition is actually you. Perhaps it is your mind, your being, which is worthy of worship and glory. That might explain why, when you try to apply your idea of God to a practical world, you run into problems such as this. The feeling you have of God is real, but the image you have is simply a distorted and unrecognized reflection of yourself.


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## cannabineer (Nov 14, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> I respect your beliefs,THANKS WHATS SAD ABOUT ME IS I CAN ONLY RESPECT YOURS IF YOU SAY THERE IS A GOD, ISN'T THAT KINDA SCREWY OF ME....SORRY TO DO THAT TO YOU BUT I NEED TO EMPHASIZE THERE IS A LIVING GOD.
> 
> but nobody else says it's a fact that god doesn't exist, NEITHER AM I....BUT I CAN THINK OF A COUPLE PEOPLE OFF HAND LIKE, DAWKINS POSSIBLY, BUT TO AN EFFECT, AS CREATIVE AS HIS THOUGHTS ARE, YOU WONDER IF INSTINCTIVELY HE WOULD HOPE FOR A GOD TOO. AND IT'S JUST A BIG JOKE ANYWAY TO MAKE A COUPLE BUCKS, WHY NOT.
> 
> ...


Dawkins never ever said "there is no God". However he DID say that the strict fundamentalist application of Biblical text to all of life, such as science, is obvious garbage.
The two statements are very different. 

As far as taking a third-person account, however sincere, and using it as valid support for the existence andor nature of God ... *that doesn't work*. I and many others would require something more ... substantive. 
You seem to imply that requiring a higher level of validation for God, at least his existence or relevance to our daily lives, and the more involved question of what he does/wants, isn't the right way to go. I hope I am msunderstanding this, because I will not give any God the "time of day" if he won't submit himself to examination. I have an instinctive immediate antipathy toward any God who plays head games and sets up arbitrary loyalty tests as exemplified (in the Christian faiths) by the passage Romans 1:20. 
cn


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## cannabineer (Nov 14, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I'm not sure it makes you atheist or hypocritical, I think it means you are confused and unfocused about what you believe. Any sane person would question a command from God to kill, but not many have stopped to think about what this means. It means you feel that you may know better than God. It means you are not convinced of his glory. It means you do not take to heart most of what the bible says (which we already knew). It means, above all, that you trust in yourself. Perhaps the God standing behind you and guiding your intuition is actually you. Perhaps it is your mind, your being, which is worthy of worship and glory. That might explain why, when you try to apply your idea of God to a practical world, you run into problems such as this. The feeling you have of God is real, but the image you have is simply a distorted and unrecognized reflection of yourself.


Imo the Penn Gillette assertion "Then you're an atheist" creates a false dichotomy. 
It requires of the believer to take the belief to an extreme, sort of like forcing any&all believers in Biblical doctrine to subscribe to patently absurd "creation science". There are shadings and gradations ... most the result of avoiding deep thought, but some quite considered and sincere.
In heph's defense I'll raise a possibility I consider neglected:
a command from God to do something awful, like kill someone, might be false. 
Of course this opens a whole 'nother can of worms: a sound verity test for supposed divine communiqués. 
cn


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 14, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I'm not sure it makes you atheist or hypocritical, I think it means you are confused and unfocused about what you believe. Any sane person would question a command from God to kill, but not many have stopped to think about what this means. It means you feel that you may know better than God. It means you are not convinced of his glory. It means you do not take to heart most of what the bible says (which we already knew). It means, above all, that you trust in yourself. Perhaps the God standing behind you and guiding your intuition is actually you. Perhaps it is your mind, your being, which is worthy of worship and glory. That might explain why, when you try to apply your idea of God to a practical world, you run into problems such as this. The feeling you have of God is real, but the image you have is simply a distorted and unrecognized reflection of yourself.



...this is pretty powerful. No tone, just expression.  (I mention 'tone' in an overall sub-forum sense, not to you particularly.)

I was listening to something recently that described well (for me) the notion of an oversoul. I'll paraphrase: It is spiritual vision that sees God in other people. If only God can see the face of God, well then...

There's a greek word, telesma, that 'says' the same. A charged artifact / consecrated object.


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 14, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> Imo the Penn Gillette assertion "Then you're an atheist" creates a false dichotomy.
> It requires of the believer to take the belief to an extreme, sort of like forcing any&all believers in Biblical doctrine to subscribe to patently absurd "creation science". There are shadings and gradations ... most the result of avoiding deep thought, but some quite considered and sincere.
> In heph's defense I'll raise a possibility I consider neglected:
> a command from God to do something awful, like kill someone, might be false.
> ...


...we're always being tested to discern! "the devil 'appears' as an angel of light"


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## cannabineer (Nov 14, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...we're always being tested to discern! "the devil 'appears' as an angel of light"


I don't believe that. ~sticks out tongue~  cn


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## Jakabok Botch (Nov 14, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> "the devil 'appears' as an angel of light"


the devil (lucifer) _is_ the bringer of light


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 14, 2011)

cannabineer said:


> I don't believe that. ~sticks out tongue~  cn


...na na nana na!  Then why do some do and some don't do unspeakable things? From my own experience, I can say I've 'heard' an internal voice / thought. 20 stories up... "you will fall into arms that last forever, but never fall" were the actual words on a painting I had done. I was holding it, and really wondering which was which. When a person is rapidly approaching psychosis, who drives the 'normal' person? For me, there was a left or right path to choose, whether I knew it or not. It wasn't a random thing. This was the culmination of some very poor decision making that pushed me to the ultimate question. And, Hi, by the way... 



Jakabok Botch said:


> the devil (lucifer) _is_ the bringer of light


...yep! The 'container', ego.


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## slayerfan (Nov 14, 2011)

*ahhh religion, the last great legal cult..the greatest mind game ever.

Religion is not God's fault.. and in fact, religion has nothing to do with God. Its all man made (up) Religion was IMO created by out ancestors to help explain natural phenomenons.
*


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 14, 2011)

slayerfan said:


> *to help explain natural phenomenons.
> *


...religiously.

It's a practice in understanding cyclical processes, to some degree  (to me) It's a personification of processes, which sounds a bit like 'us'. How would you explain 'us' in 2000 years? Is there a 'babylon' you could currently resonate with? The world's monetary structure? f.e. There is, for sure, an imbalance in 'currency'. 7 of out 10 american kids (I'm unsure of the age group) replied 'famous' when asked what they wanted to be when they grew up. Sorry for the tangent, but what? Nothing to believe in or to try to understand. im*h*o


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## Morgan Lynn (Nov 14, 2011)




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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> I'm not sure it makes you atheist or hypocritical, I think it means you are confused and unfocused about what you believe. Any sane person would question a command from God to kill, but not many have stopped to think about what this means. It means you feel that you may know better than God. It means you are not convinced of his glory. It means you do not take to heart most of what the bible says (which we already knew). It means, above all, that you trust in yourself. Perhaps the God standing behind you and guiding your intuition is actually you. Perhaps it is your mind, your being, which is worthy of worship and glory. That might explain why, when you try to apply your idea of God to a practical world, you run into problems such as this. The feeling you have of God is real, but the image you have is simply a distorted and unrecognized reflection of yourself.


 On earth, I live my own life. If god came to me and asked me to kill someone my morals would jump in and I would disobey him. I'm sure it would be wrong to disobey him, but that's what I would do. If there is a god, then I'm sure he knows more than me. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna kill someone, I would rather take whatever punishment he would give me. 


Also, if god asked me to kill someone for no reason, then I would not follow and worship him. 

And god is not my image, I don't know what he is. I'm not sure if god is evil or good. But if he is evil, then I'm not gonna obey him.

So in conclusion, if god asked me to kill someone for no reason I would not do that because I would not follow him.

But so far, god has not asked me to kill anyone, so I do trust him.




All of this is like saying "if your loving and kind grandma tried to kill you, would you still love her?".... That loving grandma would never do that; but if she did, then she would no longer be a loving grandma.


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## sso (Nov 14, 2011)

now im curious, what would be the list of "reasons to believe in god" ?


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 14, 2011)

*-morgan
*
take a look at this whole page. Do you see any of that going on?

Religious dogma and myth separate the waters... given the person devoted to it is capable, yes.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

sso said:


> now im curious, what would be the list of "reasons to believe in god" ?


-following out of fear.
-to explain natural phenomenon.
- some honestly believe there is something more to life.
-I'm sure there's more, but this is off the top of my head.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

Morgan Lynn said:


>


Ignorant believers like that are annoying. What does this have to do with the thread though?


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## sso (Nov 14, 2011)

following out of fear (Absolutely makes no sense, "its a great big invisible guy in the sky! run for your lives!")

to explain natural phenomon "yeah, it mustave been some guy that did it"

some honestly believe there is something more to life "yes, there is this huge guy and he mustave created everything"


yep, lots of "reasons"


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

sso said:


> following out of fear (Absolutely makes no sense, "its a great big invisible guy in the sky! run for your lives!")
> 
> to explain natural phenomon "yeah, it mustave been some guy that did it"
> 
> ...


So you ask a question to ridicule the answer? What a dick lol.


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## Morgan Lynn (Nov 14, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> *-morgan
> *
> take a look at this whole page. Do you see any of that going on?
> 
> Religious dogma and myth separate the waters... given the person devoted to it is capable, yes.


Who said I posted that about the ranting and raving in this thread. What made you think that? I haven't responded to anything on this thread for weeks.

Those pictures depict what I have personally experienced in life not on a an internet forum. When I clicked on the link to this thread I'm pretty sure it said "List of Reasons You Don't Believe In God". I simply used cartoons to respond to the thread topic.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

Morgan Lynn said:


> Who said I posted that about the ranting and raving in this thread. What made you think that? I haven't responded to anything on this thread for weeks.
> 
> Those pictures depict what I have personally experienced in life not on a an internet forum. When I clicked on the link to this thread I'm pretty sure it said "List of Reasons You Don't Believe In God". I simply used cartoons to respond to the thread topic.


Someone hit you with a giant crucifix?


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

So Morgan, you don't believe in god because of religious people? IMO that's not a good reason to not believe in god....


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 14, 2011)

Morgan Lynn said:


> Who said I posted that about the ranting and raving in this thread. What made you think that? I haven't responded to anything on this thread for weeks.
> 
> Those pictures depict what I have personally experienced in life not on a an internet forum. When I clicked on the link to this thread I'm pretty sure it said "List of Reasons You Don't Believe In God". I simply used cartoons to respond to the thread topic.


...the words were in the image. The dude hitting the other dude in the head with a cross seemed indicative somehow of that perspective. And, your lack of words to give context also lead me to this. 

I would not have written about 'separating the waters' had your image not invoked that thought. I believe the intent of 'separating the waters' was initially to divide waters of passion from waters of creation.

Thanks.


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## Morgan Lynn (Nov 14, 2011)

Ugh sometimes I hate forums.

I meant to respond to the other thread about Christianity and ruining shit.

Obviously I'm not in the state of mind to type anything that would make any sense to anyone.


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## Morgan Lynn (Nov 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So Morgan, you don't believe in god because of religious people? IMO that's not a good reason to not believe in god....


Read above

Do not take anything I say seriously.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

Morgan Lynn said:


> Ugh sometimes I hate forums.
> 
> I meant to respond to the other thread about Christianity and ruining shit.
> 
> Obviously I'm not in the state of mind to type anything that would make any sense to anyone.


A couple of posts ago you said you meant to post the picture in THIS thread because it served as your reason to not believe in god.


Alright well I'll get off your back lol, . Skyrim is badass....


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## sso (Nov 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> So you ask a question to ridicule the answer? What a dick lol.


well, i might have ridiculous answers to the answers, yes 

depending on the answers 

though i thought of it more as humorous statements about a humorous situation.



how about fear of life? (needing some big daddy in the sky)

and on that note, it would perhaps be cruel to remove the teddybear.



but..

the first thing you said, was "following out of fear"

and thats what many priests say "first you must learn to fear god"


and to that i say "whatever the fuck for?"

its obvious, god has nothing to do with anything that happens.

yes, shit happened and people believed it was because of god, lucky things happened and people associate it with god.

the world happened and people associate it with god.

yes, supposedly god himself appeared on earth and spoke through prophets.

yet, the one´s stating this are clad in gilt and drive benzes. 

they have cults that are governmentally protected (how come the only things organized are crime and religion? lol)

and their message is one of fear (for the most part)

with the added subtext of "donate to the church to save your soul" (sometimes you can even buy papers stating this (catholic church did that once))

..

so (in your own words) you hold on to the idea of god.

just in case.

?

its bit difficult not to ridicule that (especially with all the foolish stuff people have done in the name of religion (though i could say the same about alot of "science"..)

you fear an invisible being

because charlatans and hucksters told you so..

but the thing of course that you fear, is death.


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## Morgan Lynn (Nov 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> A couple of posts ago you said you meant to post the picture in THIS thread because it served as your reason to not believe in god.
> 
> 
> Alright well I'll get off your back lol, . Skyrim is badass....


The other day I called my boyfriend by MY name.

This kind of thing is very common for me.


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## sso (Nov 14, 2011)

they say god is love (yet fear him (him?))

yet, how then can i love when i dont care about god?

or even if he/she/it exists?

yet i love.

i dont fear death either. life after death has nothing to do with god.


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## Morgan Lynn (Nov 14, 2011)

I mix up peoples names so much that I end up calling most people "what's your face".


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

sso said:


> well, i might have ridiculous answers to the answers, yes
> 
> depending on the answers
> 
> ...


"but the thing of course that you fear, is death".... I don't fear death nor god.

I think it's pretty ridiculous to blindly follow a god out of fear, I'm just saying that's one of the reasons people believe in god.


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## sso (Nov 14, 2011)

hmm, do seem to remember you stating something similar about yourself 

could be off , of course 

hardly a person on the planet that hasnt done a ridiculous thing either... (ive never met anyone, including myself)

but hey, being human. 

being life.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

sso said:


> they say god is love (yet fear him (him?))
> 
> yet, how then can i love when i dont care about god?
> 
> ...


Who is this directed towards?


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

sso said:


> hmm, do seem to remember you stating something similar about yourself
> 
> could be off , of course
> 
> ...


 Hmmm where did I say I fear god and death?


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## Heisenberg (Nov 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> On earth, I live my own life. If god came to me and asked me to kill someone my morals would jump in and I would disobey him. I'm sure it would be wrong to disobey him, but that's what I would do. If there is a god, then I'm sure he knows more than me. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna kill someone, I would rather take whatever punishment he would give me.
> 
> 
> Also, if god asked me to kill someone for no reason, then I would not follow and worship him.
> ...


This is fairly reasonable, but my point was, your morals seem to take precedence over God's will, which suggests you consider yourself more worthy of trust than God. You would not let God make decisions for you without approving of them first, so who exactly is the authority? If God was not there, could you not depend on yourself just the same? There is no wrong or right answer, it's just intended to make you think.




> All of this is like saying "if your loving and kind grandma tried to kill you, would you still love her?".... That loving grandma would never do that; but if she did, then she would no longer be a loving grandma.


Ah so, you see God as more like a loving grandparent than a deity? Grandma does not work in mysterious ways and think in terms that are beyond our scope. What are the reasons we would not trust Grandma if she told us to kill? Grandma may be good and loving, but is only human and therefore open to corruption, or even senility. Someone could be blackmailing her, or she might have took too much medication. No, grandma is not beyond suspicion, above ridicule, and neither is God. That is the point you should consider before dismissing this thought experiment. If god can make mistakes, be subject to mental disorders, decide things that you would have to evaluate and approve of, should you really give him any more respect than grandma? If you believe in a grandparent type deity then that is fine, but you (and others) should ask yourself just how much authority you are willing to let him have over your life.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

That's exactly why I said I'm a hypocrite. I believe god has some sort of master plan (if he exists), yet I would disobey him. But his plan requires that I disobey him anyways. I am his image and story, so trusting myself is only trusting his plan. So when I don't do what he tells me to do, I'm actually fulfilling his plan. 

My grandma doesn't have a master plan lol, so I guess it's not the same situation.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> That's exactly why I said I'm a hypocrite. I believe god has some sort of master plan (if he exists), yet I would disobey him. But his plan requires that I disobey him anyways. I am his image and story, so trusting myself is only trusting his plan. So when I don't do what he tells me to do, I'm actually fulfilling his plan.
> 
> My grandma doesn't have a master plan lol, so I guess it's not the same situation.


Fair enough. I still wouldn't call you hypocritical, just inconsistent. Do you ever ask yourself why you hold these two conflicting views? 



> so trusting myself is only trusting his plan


That would mean God's plan is to trust yourself, even if it means distrusting him. Seems like either way, God is not necessary. God's plan is for you to live no differently than if there were no God? Sounds like a pretty reasonable thing for God to teach us, depend on ourselves, but it goes against all of the teaching we have so far, which would mean they are false, and that God has neglected to give us any sort of instructions telling us to trust ourselves. I suppose God depends on life to teach us this lesson, which again reduces the need for his interaction. More and more it is looking like God's master plan is something that would happen anyway, with or without him, which brings into question the explanation of God, and God having a plan, to begin with.


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## tyler.durden (Nov 14, 2011)

Hepheastus420 said:


> That's exactly why I said I'm a hypocrite. I believe god has some sort of master plan (if he exists), yet I would disobey him. But his plan requires that I disobey him anyways. I am his image and story, so trusting myself is only trusting his plan. So when I don't do what he tells me to do, I'm actually fulfilling his plan.
> 
> 
> *My grandma doesn't have a master plan lol, so I guess it's not the same situation.*


Yes, she does. She just hasn't let you in on it...


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## Harrekin (Nov 14, 2011)

Is there actually a reason people don't believe in a higher power? I can understand people not believing in organised religion for various reasons, but the actual belief in "God" part I thought wasnt a logical choice. 

Example; I don't believe in God, well I more just don't know if there is one, but I never made a conscious choice about it, I just don't believe.


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## Heisenberg (Nov 14, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Is there actually a reason people don't believe in a higher power? I can understand people not believing in organised religion for various reasons, but the actual belief in "God" part I thought wasnt a logical choice.
> 
> Example; I don't believe in God, well I more just don't know if there is one, but I never made a conscious choice about it, I just don't believe.


Your brain operates on the notion that beliefs represent a state of the world and therefore they must carry some sort of justification to be accepted. We must be convinced of something through evidence, reasoning, observation, ect and then compare that conviction to our other beliefs. Some people are better at doing this than others. Some beliefs get a pass for a variety of reasons, and even the most fair minded person is guilty of holding conflicting beliefs of some sort.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Fair enough. I still wouldn't call you hypocritical, just inconsistent. Do you ever ask yourself why you hold these two conflicting views?
> 
> That would mean God's plan is to trust yourself, even if it means distrusting him. Seems like either way, God is not necessary. God's plan is for you to live no differently than if there were no God? Sounds like a pretty reasonable thing for God to teach us, depend on ourselves, but it goes against all of the teaching we have so far, which would mean they are false, and that God has neglected to give us any sort of instructions telling us to trust ourselves. I suppose God depends on life to teach us this lesson, which again reduces the need for his interaction. More and more it is looking like God's master plan is something that would happen anyway, with or without him, which brings into question the explanation of God, and God having a plan, to begin with.


 Like you said earlier, there is no right or wrong answers.... So I'm just gonna do some critical thinking with myself, .


And the second part of your post pretty much stands for everything I've been trying to say lol.


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## Sandbagger (Nov 14, 2011)

I have never seen a god or a ghost, goblin, gremlin, witch, warlock or any other of these man made fantasies. If you do take a picture for me will ya ? Then I still won't believe in any of the above until they come and visit me in person(don't forget to bring your mojo with you). And that includes your version of the devil or satan too.


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## Hepheastus420 (Nov 14, 2011)

Sandbagger said:


> I have never seen a god or a ghost, goblin, gremlin, witch, warlock or any other of these man made fantasies. If you do take a picture for me will ya ? Then I still won't believe in any of the above until they come and visit me in person(don't forget to bring your mojo with you). And that includes your version of the devil or satan too.


 Feel better?


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## Sandbagger (Nov 14, 2011)

Hell fuckin' yeah !! How about you ??


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## Beefbisquit (Nov 14, 2011)

Harrekin said:


> Is there actually a reason people don't believe in a higher power? I can understand people not believing in organised religion for various reasons, but the actual belief in "God" part I thought wasnt a logical choice.
> 
> Example; I don't believe in God, well I more just don't know if there is one, but I never made a conscious choice about it, I just don't believe.


See, a lot of people mix up the two questions "do you believe in god?", and "does god exist?".

When asked if I believe in god, the answer is no. When asked does god exist the answer is probably not, but I don't know for sure.

"Do you believe in god" is a question on your own beliefs that only has a yes or no answer, there is no "I don't know" if you don't know, then you don't believe in god. So I've never understood how people can not know what they believe, anything besides "Yes, I believe in god" means you don't have a belief in god. It doesn't mean you have to deny gods existence, only that nothing has persuaded you to believe.


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 14, 2011)

Sandbagger said:


> I have never seen a god or a ghost, goblin, gremlin, witch, warlock or any other of these man made fantasies. If you do take a picture for me will ya ? Then I still won't believe in any of the above until they come and visit me in person(don't forget to bring your mojo with you). And that includes your version of the devil or satan too.


...there ^

Is that close enough to a picture?


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 14, 2011)

Heisenberg said:


> Your brain operates on the notion that beliefs represent a state of the world and therefore they must carry some sort of justification to be accepted. We must be convinced of something through evidence, reasoning, observation, ect and then compare that conviction to our other beliefs. Some people are better at doing this than others. Some beliefs get a pass for a variety of reasons, and *even the most fair minded person is guilty of holding conflicting beliefs of some sort*.


...I feel it's that tension between opposites that is the 'middle way'. It is necessary for growth.


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## Sandbagger (Nov 14, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...there ^
> 
> Is that close enough to a picture?


No, not really. I still havn't seen anything worth mentioning.


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 14, 2011)

Sandbagger said:


> No, not really. I still havn't seen anything worth mentioning.


...virtues inverted. ...there's your devil.


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## Sandbagger (Nov 14, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...virtues inverted. ...there's your devil.


I don't have a devil. It must be yours. If I were you I would cowar and pray.lol


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 14, 2011)

Sandbagger said:


> I don't have a devil. It must be yours. If I were you I would cowar and pray.lol


...funny


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## sso (Nov 14, 2011)

did you know, that baal, one of the devils of christianity (and judaism)

well, Baal, means "the lord" 



infact , thats often how devils came to be, some yokels conquered another civilization and made their god into a devil.

(not much difference between a god of stoning someone to death (regardless of age) and burning babies alive (it was a sacrifice thing (baal) but perhaps it can be seen as a step up)

religions change.

and die out.

looks like the age of religion (organized crime?)

is over.

anyway

just another obnoxious fart in the wind

in the story of man.


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## The Chemist Brothers (Nov 15, 2011)

in a simple explanation, there is nothing to make me believe in god, infact, the stories that are made up about them are clearly proven false especially the ones written down by a bunch or iron age desert folk who were deluded by mysticism while their greek and roman counterparts were progressing toward a scientific society. it was christianity that made rome crumble and it was religion that caused the dark ages. all are creations of men, religion and god are just bad ideas and concepts.


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## Morgan Lynn (Nov 15, 2011)

I do not understand the enigmatic explanations of God or his existence. 

I just cannot fathom a logical explanation for the existence of God; therefore, he does not exist to me.


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## Not A Game (Nov 15, 2011)

Morgan Lynn said:


> I do not understand the enigmatic explanations of God or his existence.
> 
> I just cannot fathom a logical explanation for the existence of God; therefore, he does not exist to me.


 That pretty much sums it for me and probably most Atheists. Then again, I am Agnostic, and believe it is the only truly logical choice. It's just open minded skepticism. I can't say there is a God, nor can I say there isn't. It's yet to be proven, but also yet to be disproved. I welcome the possibility of God, but I'll be damned If I surrender my soul to it/him/her. If I were to believe in God, it would not whatsoever be in a biblical/religious sense. They are just bullshit, fairytale, fictional, stories as far as I'm concerned and merely used as scare tactics to convert people, but I'm not so easily shook. In the end, I really don't give a fuck whether god exists or not. I'm just living life


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 15, 2011)

Not A Game said:


> That pretty much sums it for me and probably most Atheists. Then again, I am Agnostic, and believe it is the only truly logical choice. It's just open minded skepticism. I can't say there is a God, nor can I say there isn't. It's yet to be proven, but also yet to be disproved. I welcome the possibility of God, but I'll be damned If I surrender my soul to it/him/her. If I were to believe in God, it would not whatsoever be in a biblical/religious sense. They are just bullshit, fairytale, fictional, stories as far as I'm concerned and merely used as scare tactics to convert people, but I'm not so easily shook. In the end, I really don't give a fuck whether god exists or not. I'm just living life



...I'll go back to my inverted virtues post. What would inverted love be? What would inverted hate be? etc...etc... Surrender comes before the soul. You can't light up a place so full of its own (false) light, eh? We all have that false light to a degree. They say "empty the vessel" to fill it. All religions seek to help others empty the egoic self.

And, I spoke with a catholic priest once who said "catholicism and science are _like this_" (meaning, working together). This is why it baffles me that some say the 'religious' are foolish simpletons. Couldn't be further from the truth in a lot of cases.


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## jimmyjay (Nov 15, 2011)

ok ill open with this I believe in god 
i understand why alot dont, christanity is its own enemy the ideal of use getting it right is impossible
everything is seen threw our own eyes so we see things in away that benifits our selfs 
i understand why one would not believe, especially when believers are quick to condem when there knowledge on the subject is at its limits 
by there own bief they are rong 
but cant see it 
weither there is or is not a god is a personal choice 
and if you are told something to believe and not question what you are told is foolish 
i believe that my salvation is based on how i forgive 
to condem one is to condem my self 
to keep an open mind and try to find understanding and know that im not that person and i cant possibly
know what was going on with them when they did what they did means that i cant possibly judge them 
and with the same open mind i will be judge so in a sence nothing can judge me harshly 
even if you dont believe in god you can see that this is a decent way to live


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 15, 2011)

jimmyjay said:


> ok ill open with this I believe in god
> i understand why alot dont, christanity is its own enemy the ideal of use getting it right is impossible
> everything is seen threw our own eyes so we see things in away that benifits our selfs
> i understand why one would not believe, especially when believers are quick to condem when there knowledge on the subject is at its limits
> ...



.........


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## jimmyjay (Nov 15, 2011)

snowmanexpress said:


> Bro truthfully, I compounded and took Paddy's question in a general regard, "if god asked you to do this would you do it" not specifically to kill. So jeez... And ya, haha, a demon or ghost or thing talking to me, umm no there are no ghosts and such. I know and understand very clearly what I heard that day.
> 
> Really, it scared the shit out of me that morning. He didn't talk back, he didn't reply, that was it. I was mind fucked for more than 2 years. In a state of fear and numbness like I don't care. Life, still naturally goes on, I still get up in the morning, put on my clothes, go to work, lead the same life, do the same old shit. I think you guys are giving me way to much shit. Well fine then, see if I care. I'm telling ya there is a God.


o btw the bible speaks of ghost and demons so to believe in the word means there are ghost and demons and i was a hard core tweeker years ago and the voice you hear could be your friend or some voice you never heard before but it does seem to come from out side your head


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## Not A Game (Nov 15, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I'll go back to my inverted virtues post. What would inverted love be? What would inverted hate be? etc...etc... Surrender comes before the soul. You can't light up a place so full of its own (false) light, eh? We all have that false light to a degree. They say "empty the vessel" to fill it. All religions seek to help others empty the egoic self.
> 
> And, I spoke with a catholic priest once who said "catholicism and science are _like this_" (meaning, working together). This is why it baffles me that some say the 'religious' are foolish simpletons. Couldn't be further from the truth in a lot of cases.


 How are they not foolish simpletons? The only thing they have to back up their religion is an old wise tale. Science is making big breakthroughs. Did you hear about the DNA on meteorites that suggests humans are in fact aliens to this planet? That would make everything about God completely false since we were supposedly created here on Earth.

The thoughts of a single priest don't outweigh the rest. Their book tells them otherwise, thus they won't believe in any scientific evidence disproving things that were said in their book. A priest that tells you otherwise isn't being true to his religion or God, which makes it very sketchy and hard to believe. For if they don't truly believe all that the book has to offer, what good is the book? Of course it's open to interpretation and not all to be taken literally (that's where the extremists come in). Stories to help you become better people, etc. etc. and so on. Then really it doesn't sound so bad. Sounds like a good book doesn't it? Sure, but that's all I'll accept it as; a book. Nothing less, nothing more.

I have nothing against people who believe in the stuff. I treat them no different than people who share my own beliefs. We simply disagree, and I don't give a fuck who's right. It's just interesting to think about.


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 15, 2011)

Not A Game said:


> How are they not foolish simpletons? The only thing they have to back up their religion is an old wise tale. Science is making big breakthroughs. Did you hear about the DNA on meteorites that suggests humans are in fact aliens to this planet? That would make everything about God completely false since we were supposedly created here on Earth.
> 
> The thoughts of a single priest don't outweigh the rest. Their book tells them otherwise, thus they won't believe in any scientific evidence disproving things that were said in their book. A priest that tells you otherwise isn't being true to his religion or God, which makes it very sketchy and hard to believe. For if they don't truly believe all that the book has to offer, what good is the book? Of course it's open to interpretation and not all to be taken literally (that's where the extremists come in). Stories to help you become better people, etc. etc. and so on. Then really it doesn't sound so bad. Sounds like a good book doesn't it? Sure, but that's all I'll accept it as; a book. Nothing less, nothing more.
> 
> I have nothing against people who believe in the stuff. *I treat them no different than people who share my own beliefs.* We simply disagree, and I don't give a fuck who's right. It's just interesting to think about.


...that's cool. At first I thought I screwed up and typed "troll it up", but it turned out ok


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## cannabineer (Nov 15, 2011)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...that's cool. At first I thought I screwed up and typed "*troll it up*", but it turned out ok


Awesome ... lol cn


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 15, 2011)

...I decided to derail my last post. Maybe they need a 'wave' or 'nod' or 'tip o' hat' animated character as an option here.


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## cannabineer (Nov 15, 2011)




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## eye exaggerate (Nov 15, 2011)

...that's great man


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## snowmanexpress (Nov 29, 2011)

jimmyjay said:


> o btw the bible speaks of ghost and demons so to believe in the word means there are ghost and demons and i was a hard core tweeker years ago and the voice you hear could be your friend or some voice you never heard before but it does seem to come from out side your head


Yeah no I wasn't going on day 4 or anything like that but, yeah, I know what I heard. The Bible may speak of demons and ghosts, but I believe there are none, or I guess I should say, there should be no belief in ghosts and goblins. Deuteronomy 18-9? somewhere It says a soothsayer, diviner, or one who calls to spirits, enchanters or one who casts spells, or one who asks of a ghost or of a spirit of an acquaintance or inquiries of the dead. Because everyone who does these is an offensive thing of YHWH. And because of these offensive things, YHWH, your God, is dispossessing them from in front of you.... So, yeah, no ghosts or what.....or there are ghosts and demons and sprits? My interpretation is there are no ghosts and things cause I don't wanna be offensive or anything. SpOooOoooOokkyyyyyyy..... 

See theres another spot where my christian buddy throws me off a little with that father son and the holy ghost thing......but it's all good yo hahah j/k.


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