# First serious grow! LEC 315 in a 4x4 tent (Philips elite agro CMH)



## borbor (Feb 3, 2015)

After much money spent, and months of planning, seeds are finally planted!

I did a pretty crappy CFL grow that ended with a 400 watt HPS for the last couple of months, but other than that this is my first grow of my own. A few of my friends in real life grow though, I've been around a couple of gardens so I'm definitely not a total noob but I also can't say I can grow good (or bad) weed yet. 

The setup:

4x4 Gorilla Lite Line tent

Lighting-
Sun System LEC 315- excited to be trying some new tech, the reports on gpw, and quality overall sound too good to be true. There's a few guys on here using them, all of em with great looking grows. 
By the time flowering starts I might buy an additional light, either an LED light to put on the side, two 2-bulb T5 fixtures to put on both sides, or two 125 or 250 watt cfl reflectors for each side, or a 250 watt HPS/MH, possibly with an air cooled hood depending on how my temps get. I haven't decided, just something to make sure I get full coverage in the tent and a good spectrum.

venting & air-
can 66 carbon filter is hung in top front left corner of the tent
I'm using 6 inch ducting and a 6 inch vortex S-line fan, which says it moves 347 cfm. It uses 66 watts. It exhausts out of the top right back corner of the tent, out the window. I'm using passive intake right now, though I have another 6 inch centrifugal fan in the closet collecting dust
I have one air king 6" two speed clip on fan in a corner of the tent to circulate air, I'm going to add an oscillating fan soon. uses 15 watts.

medium-
starting the seeds out in rockwool with water PH'd to about 6, maybe a bit below that, under a humidity dome, with the light pretty close, temp inside the dome right now is 83. 
I've found a soil called batch 64 moonshine, I think it's pretty much formulated especially for cannabis. Just starting out, so it's not like I can really fuck up too much on this choice.
Will be planting the seedlings into one gallon smart pots at the beginning, at about 5 weeks I plan on moving them to 5 gallon smart pots for flower. 
The exception to that will be if these autoflowers germinate, they'll be going into 5 gallon pots right away.


Genetics in the tent now:
2 G13 labs midnight kush (fem)
1 hortilab seeds starbud (fem)
1 world of seeds brazil amazonia (reg)
1 TGA seeds querkle (reg)
1 Top Tao seeds Micron Auto Tao (autoflower) (reg)
1 Dinafem Seeds Blue Kush autoflower (fem)
1 Humbolt seeds 707 truthband by emeral mountain (fem)
1 Elemental seeds mango tango (reg)




feel free to comment, advice welcomed!


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## dbkick (Feb 3, 2015)

Hello.
That light wont disappoint.
Running two on a rail with a couple of tightly packed and same color spectrum Rapid led onyx bloom in the middle. 
So are you running the 3100k lamp in veg?


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## borbor (Feb 3, 2015)

yep! any reason not to? I was told it would be a great all purpose lamp, somebody here on riu even told me the 4200k bulb was useless, I doubt that, but what's up?


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## dbkick (Feb 4, 2015)

More blue is needed in veg but im sure the 3100k will be fine.
I use onyx veg led which is 6500k to veg personally. If I had one lamp to choose for both veg and flower it would probably be the 4200k . I intend to buy one to compare or supplement the 6500k onyx IF I ever need to.


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## borbor (Feb 4, 2015)

Wow, just did some googling and I'm kinda shocked I missed it in the first place. I'll probably give that a go next round but yeah, this round I'll just be using this bulb, in addition to any supplemental lighting I may buy


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## GroErr (Feb 4, 2015)

Subbed borbor, glad to see you're up and running and with the LEC, nice! I think the 3100k may be a little shy on blues for veg too, the 4200 is available and a quick bulb change if you can find one cheap. I haven't tried the 4200k for veg + flower but the 4200k spectrum would probably be fine if you didn't want to switch bulbs. Not a bad thing to have a spare bulb available just in case one blows, if you buy the 4200k both bulbs will last longer and you'll have a spare around... Cheers!


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## borbor (Feb 5, 2015)

Thanks guys! I think in a couple weeks I'll purchase myself an area 51 rw-75.

For now though, YIPEEEE!!!! Only 32 hours after the seeds hit the rockwool (with no pre-germination paper towel thing or anything), peeking into the rockwool I can see that at the very least the 707 truthband and one of the midnight kush has germinated!
I feel like it's worth mentioning, out of the two midnight kush seeds, the one that was smaller, paler, and generally looked less likely to germinate is actually the first one!


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## borbor (Feb 5, 2015)

I caved and bought the 4200k bulb, looks good!

Querkle, the second midnight kush, and starbud have cracked their seeds!

I've kept a hygrometer inside the dome, temp has been staying between 88 and 95, humidity hangs out around 70% in there. I've been opening and misting occasionally

edit: brazil amazonia seed cracked, I'm excited to watch this one grow since her genetics are gonna be wildly different than anything in the tent


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## JimmyIndica (Feb 5, 2015)

borbor said:


> Thanks guys! I think in a couple weeks I'll purchase myself an area 51 rw-75.
> 
> For now though, YIPEEEE!!!! Only 32 hours after the seeds hit the rockwool (with no pre-germination paper towel thing or anything), peeking into the rockwool I can see that at the very least the 707 truthband and one of the midnight kush has germinated!
> I feel like it's worth mentioning, out of the two midnight kush seeds, the one that was smaller, paler, and generally looked less likely to germinate is actually the first one!


I bought me 2 RW 150 yesterday! Apache Tech #1 - Area51 # 2


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## a senile fungus (Feb 5, 2015)

I used the 4200K to veg and flower and they seem to be doing fine. I've nothing to compare them to though...

Also, I'm subbed in. Looking forward to watching.


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## JimmyIndica (Feb 5, 2015)

I got 2 reg mango tango, 1 starbud, 1 blue kush just waitin. Must got same freebies?


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## borbor (Feb 5, 2015)

JimmyIndica said:


> I got 2 reg mango tango, 1 starbud, 1 blue kush just waitin. Must got same freebies?


haha yup, merry christmas!


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## borbor (Feb 7, 2015)

Whoohooo! It begins!
most of em are pushing the surface. The three that are up and sprouted are, from left to right, midnight kush, 707 truthband, and querkle.


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## JimmyIndica (Feb 7, 2015)

borbor said:


> Whoohooo! It begins!
> most of em are pushing the surface. The three that are up and sprouted are, from left to right, midnight kush, 707 truthband, and querkle.


U like the rockwool? I have never used it before. I be watchin. I use coco/perlite and it will be the last time. DWC undercurrent for me in the future.


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## borbor (Feb 7, 2015)

JimmyIndica said:


> U like the rockwool? I have never used it before. I be watchin. I use coco/perlite and it will be the last time. DWC undercurrent for me in the future.


Yeah my friends and I have always used it for germination. At least one of them I know doesn't PH his water and they still pop up fine. I like it a lot better than the wet paper towel thing, I think there's less potential for mold and mildew than paper towels, and there's no touching delicate seedlings with my filthy fingers.

edit- tried those peat pellets before, always had much better survival rates in rockwool, I think because it's not so compact


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## borbor (Feb 7, 2015)

put the four early birds in pots:


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## JimmyIndica (Feb 7, 2015)

borbor said:


> Yeah my friends and I have always used it for germination. At least one of them I know doesn't PH his water and they still pop up fine. I like it a lot better than the wet paper towel thing, I think there's less potential for mold and mildew than paper towels, and there's no touching delicate seedlings with my filthy fingers.
> 
> edit- tried those peat pellets before, always had much better survival rates in rockwool, I think because it's not so compact


Yeah I had bad exp with those peet pellets and lost a bunch. I am runnin coco/perlite. Growth is good but the prep and mess from the bricks. I don't know if its worth it. I been lookin at the undercurrent system for awhile. Most likely go with that! I know if I went coco again it would be 3 gallon pots. Flood n Drain with the wool as always interested me though?


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## JimmyIndica (Feb 7, 2015)

borbor said:


> put the four early birds in pots:


I hope en that mango is female for ya! I wanna see it bud? Its supposed to be a killer! and good breeder I hear?TrueOg x (tangiexpeaches)


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## borbor (Feb 8, 2015)

JimmyIndica said:


> I hope en that mango is female for ya! I wanna see it bud? Its supposed to be a killer! and good breeder I hear?TrueOg x (tangiexpeaches)


It's the only one that hasn't sprouted, and I can't really see it well in the cube  sucks, I almost never get to sample any mango buds. 


Just got home from work, will definitely be potting the others tomorrow (about 18 hours from now). Been a bit risky working 13-15 hour shifts and hoping the humidity is staying right. I keep getting home just in time I think, tomorrow's a half day and then it's my actual weekend, so after that I should be kind of out of the woods as far as temp/humidity.


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## borbor (Feb 9, 2015)

woke up early enough to go to the hydro store and get more pots and transplant, then got off work early!

I put the autoflowers in 5 gallon pots since I won't be transplanting them again. However, I ran out of soil on the last one, so it's really just about 3 1/2- 4 gallons, but that one is "micron auto tao" from top tao seeds. This was the freebie I cared the least about, Not able to find much info on this strain or breeder, and it's an autoflower. I'm a little more excited for the blue kush auto, at least I've heard the dinafem name for years, which I know isn't fair to top tao or any of the lesser-known brands, but as the end consumer, I gotta rationalize this shit somehow. Also, I get to try some iteration of blue kush, even if it's less potent because of the ruderalis trait.

I opened the rockwool with the "mango tango" from elemental seeds and it had cracked, though it seemed like it might have hit a wall really quickly, the root was out, but still almost curled around half of the seed. I put it in the same pot as the top tao auto, if it sprouts I'll transplant it, but I really don't care, I'd almost rather it not sprout, I have enough work already. 

It's such a pain in the ass to put water out a day early, I went to the store yesterday and got some distilled water, picked up some General Organics CaMg+ at the hydro store while I was getting those pots. I've got a question for anybody and everybody now: Is it okay to PH my water in advance? I've found that PHing my water is very difficult, probably because I've been PHing a half gallon at a time maximum. And does that change when I'm adding nutrients? 
When I got the CaMg+ I saw some stuff from canna nutrients called canna start. I bought it because I'm a goon, and used it today, but I only used about a third, maybe half the recommended amount. It says it's a "one part nutrient for seedlings and (rooted) cuttings. For use on peat based seed mixes, rockwool, and peat plugs"


Light schedule for the first few days was actually 24/0, then just about 12 hours ago they got 10:45-1:30 (2.75 hours) darkness, I think today I'll up that to 4 hours and let it stay at 20/4 for a few days before 18/6. 

The pictures at this point are superfluous, everybody knows what seedlings look like.
One of em, though, the first midnight kush to sprout, which for this journal and the rest of my life I will call "midnight kush #1" has a weird indent on both of the "true leaves" (by that I mean the ones that are not cotyledons), the indent is almost like the leaves are canoeing, but they certainly aren't. I hope it's a rare mutation or something, because sometimes I like things that are different for the sake of being different


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## borbor (Feb 9, 2015)

Everything seems normal, with the one exception that the 707 truthband doesn't seem to be doing much. Looks almost the same as when it sprouted a couple of days ago, hope she's okay. Everything else is doing ok so I don't really think it's anything I did, hoping she's just slow.


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## GroErr (Feb 9, 2015)

This part of the cycle is a bit slow, that's why I do off-set perpetual, always flowering something during the hurry up and wait seedling/clone part


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## borbor (Feb 9, 2015)

yeah, I'm definitely gonna try to get a veg tent set up some time while these ladies are flowering, Ideally when this tent is empty I'd have two or three plants a few weeks into veg, I saw a really small tent on amazon, it was like 18"x24"x48", I'm sure the quality is shit but if it's just a veg tent I don't see a big issue with that, as long as it stays dark inside with the lights off, it'd be cool to be able to fit a veg tent on a shelf, table, or desk. In the back of my mind this whole time I've been kinda planning on that with a 2 or 4 bulb t5 fixture. Then I could put two seeds/clones in at a time, for four weeks at a time, so every four weeks two plants would go into flower and two plants would get chopped. Think a 4" booster fan would be enough for a tent that size with some T5s?

AW SHIT
I was typing that, and setting up that herb iq software, and watching a show, somehow within three hours midnight kush #2 just fell down, limp! Shittttty, its stem didn't even get up to 90 degrees  
The soil in its pot was all dry, and all the other pots were still moist. I think I know why, today I brought a metal cube into the tent and put it in the corner and clipped the circulation fan to it since I couldn't angle it towards the plants when it was clipped to the actual tent, I pointed it right at the midnight kush#2 pot, even though it's about a foot and a half away, I think the increased airflow over the soil made it dry out faster. I'm a little bummed, in my mind I just gotta keep saying "rookie mistake." I watered it, so hopefully she bounces back, I won't take the pot out yet

I know when I was germinating them I was really just trying to get maybe 5-6 survivors, but this week every day I've been loving em and checking on them more times per day than the average high school student checks facebook, I grew attached  At least it happened to be the strain I popped 2 of, and I still have 3 more seeds for it


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## GroErr (Feb 9, 2015)

Shit happens, do what you can with the remaining and pop some more seeds  4" booster would be fine for that size tent, I use one in a 2x4x5' and works fine for vegging, no carbon filter. They don't pull enough to have a filter on them but for clones/seedlings/veg they're fine. I use LED's for veg so no heat worries, use the fans more to control humidity and have constant air exchange.


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## borbor (Feb 10, 2015)

Thanks groerr!
Got some new growth on querkle, starbud, MK #1, and brazil amazonia, glad to see that


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## DurbanP (Feb 10, 2015)

I'm late to the party but I'll be watching. I was actually thinking of adding this light to pair with my onxy.

Keep posting pics and good luck

The ph of your water will swing. The way I do my water is in a 5 gallon water cooler bottle. I use some right away and the rest goes into 1gallon plastic milk jugs filled so there is no space. Those go in the fridge to chill out. I'm not sure if this is scientific or not, but for me if there is air in the container my water swings from a ph of 5.9 to a 6.2-6.3. Without space it tends to stay the same or hit 6.


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## dbkick (Feb 10, 2015)

DurbanP said:


> I'm late to the party but I'll be watching. I was actually thinking of adding this light to pair with my onxy.
> 
> Keep posting pics and good luck


Done did that myself .
I think I'm gonna buy another LEC for the 4by4 tent and put the 4 onyx blooms in the room with the 2 lec on a rail.Possibly leave two onyx stationary .


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## DurbanP (Feb 10, 2015)

dbkick said:


> Done did that myself .
> I think I'm gonna buy another LEC for the 4by4 tent and put the 4 onyx blooms in the room with the 2 lec on a rail.Possibly leave two onyx stationary .


Wow. That's a thing of beauty. Wish you could daisy chain the Onxy. Thats my only knock on them.


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## borbor (Feb 12, 2015)

Here's the six survivors-
Midnight kush-
 
Starbud-
 
Querkle-
 
Brazil Amazonia-
 
Top Tao Auto-
 
Blue Kush Auto-
 

Been thinking, since I'm only gonna have four plants in flowering, and two of those could be boys, should I pop a couple more beans now, or just hope for girls?

If I was trying to start more seeds in rockwool in a humidity dome, would the six hours of lights off with some lower temps be a problem?


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## GroErr (Feb 12, 2015)

borbor said:


> Here's the six survivors-
> 
> Been thinking, since I'm only gonna have four plants in flowering, and two of those could be boys, should I pop a couple more beans now, or just hope for girls?
> 
> If I was trying to start more seeds in rockwool in a humidity dome, would the six hours of lights off with some lower temps be a problem?


You could but no matter what they'll be behind these seedlings. You're probably better to leave it as-is, when you get your keepers then extend or reduce your veg time depending on how many plants. I tend to lean towards less but more robust and larger plants. Have tried pretty well every combo and the one that always seems to produce the most is less/larger plants. Remember that extending veg only extends that, your flowering time is constant and determined by the strain, say average 8-9 weeks. That time never changes, so if you veg an extra 2 weeks your overall period goes from say 6 + 8 weeks to 8 + 8 weeks, 16 instead of 14. Yet with that extra 2 weeks, at that stage in the plants life you can go from a 2 - 2.5 oz plant to 3 - 3.5 oz. plant depending on the strain, well worth the extra couple of weeks veg imo.

6 hrs. of dark won't hurt your seedlings at all, you can go straight into 12/12 with seeds, as long as the temps don't get too low, like say below 60'sh.


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## borbor (Feb 12, 2015)

word, good to hear that, I was about to pop a few freebies just to distract myself from these seedlings, thinking that by the time these popped up the 6 alive now might be far along enough for me to have a little more fun watching.
I'm paying for the electricity in advance, so right now I'm all paid up on 18/6 until March 10th, then I've already paid for eleven weeks of flowering. I've been planning on buying another two or three weeks of 18/6. Hopefully I'll have enough left over from my taxes to get an area 51 rw-75 or a hans panel, or something along those lines. If so (and I do think so) then I'll buy that extra time at the same time I pay for the extra power usage from the led.

Definitely gonna keep what you said in mind about fewer, larger plants producing more. I might pop a few beans and get 'em going in case the querkle or brazil amazonia I have going turn out to be boys. Looking through my stash of seeds, there's not really anything I would want badly enough to make me wanna start a grow on those alone. In other words-between this current grow and my next grow I'm definitely going to get more seeds. Might as well get a head start, if I get a bunch of girls and my tent is too full, I know a couple of guys that I'm sure wouldn't mind a free teenage plant or two


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## borbor (Feb 12, 2015)

just finished up putting some more in rockwool
1 710 Genetics Fool's Gold fem
2 WOS afghan kush reg
2 TH Seeds burmese kush (supposedly fem, but not sure. I think the promo on attitude said it was fem, but I got it out of the breeder pack with the worst handwritten label I've ever seen on anything)

I don't really care if I keep 'em, just making sure I can flower at least 4 plants

Tax return looks great, puts my LED budget at at least 400, maybe more depending on how much I spend taking captain cuddles to the vet!


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## borbor (Feb 15, 2015)

Not much new to tell, just slowly chuggin' along. the midnight kush is the fastest, The 2nd and 3rd fingers on the first node's leaves are visible, and the second set of leaves is starting to grow. The brazil amazonia and starbud are kinda neck and neck, each has its first set of three fingered leaves starting to spread out. Querkle, as described on the internet, is the slowest.
The two autos are going as slow as querkle.
all the plants are staying near soil level though, wondering how close together the nodes will be later on.
Midnight Kush-

Starbud-

Brazil Amazonia-

Querkle-

Top Tao Auto-

Blue Kush Auto-


Midnight Kush from the side- so low to the soil!


also...wtf blue kush?


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## borbor (Feb 16, 2015)




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## borbor (Feb 16, 2015)

of those 5 seeds I sprouted, the fool's gold, both of the burmese kush, and one of the afghan kush have popped up. The fool's gold was first, and it actually already has a little root coming out of the bottom of the rockwool. I'm going tomorrow to get more soil and pots before they wake up, should I just transplant it then, or with the root coming out into the water in the tray is it better just to find a solo cup or something? it'll be about a 16 hour difference in when she's transplanted


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## GroErr (Feb 16, 2015)

borbor said:


> of those 5 seeds I sprouted, the fool's gold, both of the burmese kush, and one of the afghan kush have popped up. The fool's gold was first, and it actually already has a little root coming out of the bottom of the rockwool. I'm going tomorrow to get more soil and pots before they wake up, should I just transplant it then, or with the root coming out into the water in the tray is it better just to find a solo cup or something? it'll be about a 16 hour difference in when she's transplanted


They don't always grow at the same rate when you're growing multiple strains so you can just plant them as they're ready but waiting a day's not going to make much difference either way. I try and do them in batches but it doesn't always work that way.


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## JimmyIndica (Feb 16, 2015)

I got a fools gold gonna wait for summer , so I be checkin your fools gold out


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## borbor (Feb 17, 2015)

Hey riu, everything's going basically according to plan, here's a little update;
replaced the little 6 inch 15 watt clip-on fan with an oscillating 12 inch 40 watt 3-speed fan with a stand. It was a hot day and temperatures were actually rising in the tent, once I put this thing in on the lowest setting everything cooled right down  
potted all of the seeds I had in rockwool in one gallon smart pots, except one of the burmese kush, there was a 2 gallon pot mixed with the 1 gallon pots at the hydro store, so I wound up with that by accident, haha. takes up pretty much the same footprint, so not a big deal at all. I seem to have overwatered a little for the initial watering, oops. They definitely like their new homes though, they're perking up more and more. 

I know early on I posted a photo of the whole foxfarm line. I still haven't opened any of those bottles, decided to try the canna/biocanna line instead. I might use the foxfarm line next time, or just for a couple of plants sometime as a comparison, or in the backyard non-cannabis garden, or since the bottles are still sealed, craigslist. So far I've been using between a quarter and a half dose of canna start on all the seedlings with most waterings. Today I picked up some of biocanna's bio vega and biorhizotonic. I'm gonna call the original six seedlings officially in "veg," they're two weeks old today. in a few hours they'll get a watering with veg nutes and we'll see how they respond. The new seedlings, once their soil dries out, are gonna stay on just canna start.

while I'm going over my nutrients and watering, I think I've mentioned this before but I've been filling containers with tap water and leaving them out to evaporate the chlorine, but sometimes I forget, and in the beginning a few times I underestimated how much water I would need, so I'd go to the store and get distilled water. in those cases, I add small doses of General Organics CaMg+, only a few ml. 

basically just mentioning all that so that if I sound wrong about anything someone can let me know, and if it works great, I might look back through this thread in the future, and others might as well, and find something useful.

The Ladies-
Midnight Kush
 
Querkle-
 
Starbud-
 
Brazil Amazonia-
 
Blue Kush Auto-
 
Micron Auto Tao-
 
Fool's Gold-
 
Burmese Kush (for reference, this is the one in the two gallon pot)
 
Burmese Kush-
 
Afghan Kush (this one was just barely poking above ground when I transplanted, so I know she at least didn't hate it)-


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## borbor (Feb 17, 2015)

because I could only put 10 pics on the last post, here's the last afghan kush, and a group shot. the autos are in the big pots


edit-oh yeah, thought I'd add a photo of particularly high quality concentrate I've been enjoying today. headband on the left, La confidential x bruce banner on the right


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## borbor (Feb 19, 2015)

I'm sure I'll be bored later tonight and post another round of pics, but I just got a quick question

I've got two thermometers right next to each other, one is the little $10 acurite hygrometer from amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013BKDO8/ref=pe_385040_127541860_TE_dp_1
the other was a little more expensive, from sunleaves, it has a remote probe
http://www.amazon.com/Sunleaves-Digital-Min-Max-Hygro-Thermometer/dp/B004DKL62Y

So I keep the acurite thermometer and the probe for the sunleaves thermometer within inches of each other, usually with the acurite thermometer facing either forward or up (I figure the light may heat the black casing on the back). At this moment the sunleaves thermometer reads 78 degrees, the acurite thermometer reads 84 degrees, and I've seen it vary a lot more than that. Sometimes I'm going off the median, sometimes i'm going off the acurite to be on the safe side, and when I'm looking at low temperatures (how cool it gets during lights off) I go off of the sunleaves.

Which one should I trust? am I doing something wrong with the probe? I'm just letting it dangle off the light. Even when I turn the fans off there's a discrepancy


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## GroErr (Feb 21, 2015)

borbor said:


> I'm sure I'll be bored later tonight and post another round of pics, but I just got a quick question
> 
> I've got two thermometers right next to each other, one is the little $10 acurite hygrometer from amazon:
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013BKDO8/ref=pe_385040_127541860_TE_dp_1
> ...


Difficult to say which one's right, you can get a lot of variation when you move them around the space. I try to find a spot to hang/place them and keep it there for consistency, usually try to place them close to the tops. One thing you could do is test them both outside the tent in a stable environment (hall, bedroom) and see what they both read, could be just placement. The one with the probe looks like it's a secondary probe, try running it without the probe attached and see what your readings are. For temps if you have a furnace you'll have a controller mounted on a wall that will usually show your temps, place both in that area and see which one is closer.


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## borbor (Feb 21, 2015)

querkle has fat leaves


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## borbor (Feb 22, 2015)

Midnight Kush- she's been the biggest since the beginning, came home from work just now and she was waving at me with five fingers!

verbal, but non-photographic update- querkle, brazil amazonia, and BARELY starbud are showing one or two symptoms of PH fluctuation (slight tan spots on two querkle leaves and an early starbud leaf, the one fingered serrated leaves on brazil amazonia are twisting)

I'm not very worried about them, just gonna try my best to fix it. my plan right now is to give them distilled water next watering, then really light nutes in distilled water, then half strength nutes in distilled water and we'll see where that takes me. 
I want brazil amazonia to live and be a girl- There really aren't any other sativas in there, nothing even close. Sativas actually get me high, indicas get me medicated. Don't get me wrong-there's a reason I ordered an indica showcase-check what time I've made all the posts in this thread so far. They're not all in the morning, afternoon, evening, or late night. They're all over the place because instead of spending my money on proper sleep medication, I'm spending money on tents, lights, fans, soil, nutes, more lights, and so on, so that hopefully in the future, aside from a few nutes and bulbs, I don't have to do either.


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## borbor (Feb 23, 2015)

here's starbud, she seems very healthy overall to me, though you can see the ph issue I mentioned in the top middle of the pic on the lower leaf.
 

seems like the ladies are starting to take off now, the blue kush auto really jumped up from how sad her first set of leaves looked. the initial six (top tao, starbud, querkle, midnight kush, and blue kush) will all be three weeks old tomorrow. I greatly underestimated how long the plants would be seedlings for when I started the garden. I'm scheduled to flip to 12/12 on march 10th, so two weeks from now. I'm going to pay extra cash to extend my veg time, because there's no point in growing two autos and four photos in one tent if you're gonna switch to 12/12 right as the autos start to flower. the second pic is blue kush
 

The top tao auto has been slow as fuck so far. The ends of her leaves are greener than they are toward the middle, just on the lower leaves though, does it seem like PH or nitrogen or something else?
 

Brazil Amazonia might give me exactly what I was hoping for out of this plant, I definitely want one good sativa as an alternative to the jars of indica I'll hopefully pull down, and she looks like she'll give me that, the leaves at least are much more narrow than on the other plants, and look more sativa than most of my friend's plants. Looks like this new set might even have 7 or nine fingers already as well, on the third node! Also want to try it just because I doubt I'll have had a very similar strain before. Very glad her new growth isn't all twisty and messed up like her first set of leaves.
 

Here's midnight kush again, showing off her really thick stem, and lush foliage. 
  
Querkle- Still living up to the "slow vegger" reputation. There's the (suspected) PH issue making its appearance again. 
 
Family photo-sorry, no pics of the seedlings til I have stuff to take pictures of!


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## borbor (Feb 24, 2015)

I typed a whole long thing about this and other stuff last night, but RIU was offline and it got deleted. I just wanted to throw these pictures up, they're not my garden, I took these photos about five months ago, and I wouldn't even call this grower a friend, in fact I wouldn't exactly call him a human being, but... This is a 5x5 tent with the (now out of business) dna lighting tru sun 900 watt cmh in an og hood. He had his hood air cooled, but sealed off from the rest of the tent, where he was using co2, growing in soil. CMH should probably be getting more attention.

speaking of lights, I was at a grow shop browsing and talking to the guy, he's offering to order in a clw solarstorm 440 for me for $700, way more light than I was looking to add, but it seems like a great light, especially with those uvb bulbs. I might do it, kinda doubt it though. 

that grow shop (not wtg, a different one) seems like they're hurting a little for business, but every time I go in there the same guy (the only guy I've ever seen there) always basically tells me I'm stupid and upsells me straight out of my price range. I walk into a store asking for supplemental light and this genius names light after light that use more fucking power than my light and fans combined! Upselling is a great skill, but if somebody walks into your store with five hundred dollars, and you spend the whole time trying to convince them to spend seven hundred dollars, then if you are successful they won't spend any dollars, they'll go home.


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## borbor (Feb 26, 2015)

put some nice looking plant labels in so I don't even need to label pictures online for right now,
Midnight kush still by far the biggest, starbud looks great though, really healthy. Brazil amazonia's newest set of leaves is growing funny, querkle is slow, and all those seedlings look normal to me.


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## borbor (Feb 27, 2015)

and here's the two autoflowers, 
"micron auto tao" from "top tao seeds" 

Dinafem's blue kush auto- been keeping an eye on ace yonder's thread, he has one of these going about a month older than mine.


my scheduled flip to 12/12 is march 10th, which is a little disappointing since judging by ace's thread my blue kush auto will probably be throwing preflowers around then, so flipping to 12/12 would just totally take the purpose out of growing an auto. 

when I was planning this out, definitely underestimated how long the "seedling" stage really went on for before they started to take off in veg. Gonna see about pushing the 12/12 flip back 10-20 days, as an added bonus I'd have an area 51 led to put next to them for the whole flowering period, which I think I will need in this tent. I've even been considering another LEC or even an LEC 630 for flower, we'll see. right now I'm mostly thinking area 51 rw-150


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## borbor (Feb 27, 2015)

hairs on the blue kush auto so tiny I can't get them on camera, but she's a girl
and I'm pretty sure the micron auto tao's balls are dropping. good riddance- the description says it's their version of lowryder, so I really wasn't especially excited... a breeder that nobody knows about comes out with nine strains, pretty much all autos and pretty sketchy looking lineages, My intention if the micron auto tao turned out to be a girl was gonna be to make my first batch of canna-oil (done butter before, but wanna get more creative in the kitchen) and if it had actually turned out to be a girl that smelled and tasted good, I would have just given it all to my mom, who likes to smoke high-quality, low-potency weed sometimes, if it was potent I would have just smoked it.

If it wasn't an auto I would keep him alive to make some crosses down the road, but because he has foul intentions with my daughters I gotta kill him in a day or two, after I'm 100% sure about the presence of deez nutz.

brings me to a question about males-IF I kept a male of a photo strain in veg, would there be any chance of pollination or would I be able to collect any pollen from the preflowers?


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## borbor (Feb 27, 2015)

Top tao must have heard me talkin' shit...


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## borbor (Mar 2, 2015)

midnight kush- 26 days from seed, five nodes with 6th showing five inches tall, starting to branch out a bit
 
starbud- 26 days from seed, four nodes, fifth barely showing, five inches tall, I love how healthy her leaves look
 
querkle- 26 days from seed, 3 nodes with 4th showing, three inches, 
 
brazil amazonia- 26 days from seed, four nodes with 5th showing, three inches
 
burmese kush -17 days from seed, this is the one I put in a 2 gallon smart pot instead of a 1 gallon.
 
afghan kush- 17 days from seed
 
Fool's gold 17 days from seed
 
micron auto tao- 26 days from seed, does this look like a girl? to me it looks like a male preflower with a pistil coming out of it, herm? throwing male hermie auto pollen all over my tent would be my worst nightmare.
 
blue kush auto- 26 days from seed, definitely female
 
Family photo
 



one of the burmese kush and one of the afghan kush are both lookin' like a week old still, I'm not gonna keep them but I'm going to a friend's house tomorrow, gonna ask him if he wants em before I put them under a 0/0 light cycle. gave nutes today to all the ladies, though the 17 day old ones are still just on canna start.


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## borbor (Mar 2, 2015)

anybody got an opinion on the micron auto tao sex?

this thread interested me regarding that http://www.420magazine.com/forums/frequently-asked-questions/189263-reverse-hermie-unidentifiable-pre-flowers-opinion.html


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## GroErr (Mar 2, 2015)

borbor said:


> anybody got an opinion on the micron auto tao sex?
> 
> this thread interested me regarding that http://www.420magazine.com/forums/frequently-asked-questions/189263-reverse-hermie-unidentifiable-pre-flowers-opinion.html


It does kind of look like that but a bit blurry. Very early yet to worry about pollination, just keep a close eye on it until you can read the sex for sure. Have never seen a male turn female but I suppose it's possible, either way if it's a hermie it's not worth keeping.


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## borbor (Mar 2, 2015)

GroErr said:


> It does kind of look like that but a bit blurry. Very early yet to worry about pollination, just keep a close eye on it until you can read the sex for sure. Have never seen a male turn female but I suppose it's possible, either way if it's a hermie it's not worth keeping.


for sure, I feel like it might not be worth keeping either way, been thinking about when to flip to 12/12 and all that stuff, I'm thinking I might go off the original plan to flip 7 days from now, I'm sure I'm gonna be able to pull a few zips down. I've spent three times what my car is worth on this, been thinking maybe I should just hurry up and get myself a harvest before spending more money on making my grow ideal. 

all this grow equipment so far has come out of my weed budget, which has been extremely frustrating. gotta tip the scales the other way.


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## borbor (Mar 2, 2015)

lights just came on.
pics of my hairy balls


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## borbor (Mar 2, 2015)

just did a lil lst on midnight kush and starbud, hope they're both okay, I've done it before, it's just starbud moved a bit, like it might not have had a strong enough foundation under the dirt but I think she's fine, I was careful.


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## GroErr (Mar 2, 2015)

borbor said:


> lights just came on.
> pics of my hairy balls


Yeah they sure look like balls, you'll want to keep a close eye on those, I'd cull them and focus on the rest, you have plenty of backup.


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## GroErr (Mar 2, 2015)

borbor said:


> for sure, I feel like it might not be worth keeping either way, been thinking about when to flip to 12/12 and all that stuff, I'm thinking I might go off the original plan to flip 7 days from now, I'm sure I'm gonna be able to pull a few zips down. I've spent three times what my car is worth on this, been thinking maybe I should just hurry up and get myself a harvest before spending more money on making my grow ideal.
> 
> all this grow equipment so far has come out of my weed budget, which has been extremely frustrating. gotta tip the scales the other way.


They're looking a little early for flip but you have a lot of plants for a 4x4 so if they grow well you could be ready in a week to 10 days. You're better to look at the space and figure out how many and what size you'll need to fill it (after stretch) from a yield standpoint, an extra week veg can make a big difference in final yield, flowering time remains constant so it's only an extra week overall. Cheers.


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## JimmyIndica (Mar 2, 2015)

borbor said:


> for sure, I feel like it might not be worth keeping either way, been thinking about when to flip to 12/12 and all that stuff, I'm thinking I might go off the original plan to flip 7 days from now, I'm sure I'm gonna be able to pull a few zips down. I've spent three times what my car is worth on this, been thinking maybe I should just hurry up and get myself a harvest before spending more money on making my grow ideal.
> 
> all this grow equipment so far has come out of my weed budget, which has been extremely frustrating. gotta tip the scales the other way.


I had 3 look just like that and pulled em!


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## borbor (Mar 2, 2015)

GroErr said:


> They're looking a little early for flip but you have a lot of plants for a 4x4 so if they grow well you could be ready in a week to 10 days. You're better to look at the space and figure out how many and what size you'll need to fill it (after stretch) from a yield standpoint, an extra week veg can make a big difference in final yield, flowering time remains constant so it's only an extra week overall. Cheers.


yeah, they're definitely small right now, ideally I'd like to see alternating nodes before flipping them, I guess only time can really tell, I can only plan so much


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## borbor (Mar 3, 2015)

I wish there was a thread for questions on CMH, I think I might have just had an amazing idea for growers on a budget

I've been thinking a lot lately about the best secondary light to add to the tent for flowering. I know I've said a lot about my plans to get some leds in the future (the current plan, subject to change, is to pre-order two rw-75s tomorrow), but it ain't over til the money's spent, and I just got it. one of my ideas was to get a 250 hps bulb and ballast and a cool tube, would have been easy to rig up a little booster fan and in/out ducting to keep any heat from impacting the grow, but for the bulb/ballast/reflector price I'm looking at the same coverage with LED.

EXCEPT that I just happened to come across this bulb
http://www.greners.com/i/grow-lights/hid-bulbs/wattage/250-watts/Philips_250w_MH_Conversion_Lamp.html

looks pretty sweet! I know conversion bulbs aren't the most efficient, but if you put that inside one of these-
http://growershouse.com/6-cool-tube
with one of these-
http://growershouse.com/phantom-250w-digital-ballast-120-240v

then you have a cmh grow light good for veg and flower for $250 that's 80% the wattage, about 60% the lumens and half the price?


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## GroErr (Mar 3, 2015)

borbor said:


> EXCEPT that I just happened to come across this bulb
> http://www.greners.com/i/grow-lights/hid-bulbs/wattage/250-watts/Philips_250w_MH_Conversion_Lamp.html
> 
> looks pretty sweet! I know conversion bulbs aren't the most efficient, but if you put that inside one of these-
> ...


You said it right there, 80% of the wattage and 60% lumens, spectral charts are different and with that efficiency you'd need to deal with some heat, not really comparing apples to apples. They'd certainly grow MJ but get a full run under the Elite Agro and see if you want to change


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## borbor (Mar 3, 2015)

Aw yeah, that actually is pretty inefficient, I was primarily thinking about keeping that setup in mind to suggest to people starting out, but the more I compare it to hps numbers it doesn't add up, even on the 400 watt version I just found. (20,500 lumens on the 250 vs 30,500 on a 250 hps, and 34,000 lumens on the 400 vs 55,000 lumens on a 400 hps)


I just pre-ordered two rw-75s from area 51. Their website says "estimated wait time 3/16/2015," I wonder if that means that's when they expect to have them back in stock or when I should expect them to come to me, definitely no way of knowing that. I'm sure whatever day they show up will be the perfect day for 12/12. been wondering this whole time exactly how I'm gonna arrange them. one on either side of the lec would be nice and even, but assuming the 315 covers about a 3x3 area, and each of these rw75s is supposed to cover a 2x2 area, I can't think of a way to cover the whole tent.


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## GroErr (Mar 3, 2015)

borbor said:


> Aw yeah, that actually is pretty inefficient, I was primarily thinking about keeping that setup in mind to suggest to people starting out, but the more I compare it to hps numbers it doesn't add up, even on the 400 watt version I just found. (20,500 lumens on the 250 vs 30,500 on a 250 hps, and 34,000 lumens on the 400 vs 55,000 lumens on a 400 hps)
> 
> 
> I just pre-ordered two rw-75s from area 51. Their website says "estimated wait time 3/16/2015," I wonder if that means that's when they expect to have them back in stock or when I should expect them to come to me, definitely no way of knowing that. I'm sure whatever day they show up will be the perfect day for 12/12. been wondering this whole time exactly how I'm gonna arrange them. one on either side of the lec would be nice and even, but assuming the 315 covers about a 3x3 area, and each of these rw75s is supposed to cover a 2x2 area, I can't think of a way to cover the whole tent.


Just put them on the sides, angled a bit and offset so each covers a 2x2 area. I move them around if the edges aren't getting as much coverage, cycle them every few days.


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## borbor (Mar 3, 2015)

haha nice I never even thought of moving them every few days


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## borbor (Mar 7, 2015)

I think I've been keeping the light a little too close to the plants, not raising it much as they grow. just hoisted it up a few inches so we'll see how they respond. They're doing okay, just a few signs of heat stress. The blue kush auto is showing the most problems with it, I think because of her being in a larger, coupled with the start of the stretch, she's higher up than the others.

What distance would some of you lec owners recommend? I've been trying to keep it at about 20 inches, just now before I raised it it was about 16 or 17" above the plant in the middle, starbud, which is a little taller than the others except the auto.


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## GroErr (Mar 7, 2015)

borbor said:


> I think I've been keeping the light a little too close to the plants, not raising it much as they grow. just hoisted it up a few inches so we'll see how they respond. They're doing okay, just a few signs of heat stress. The blue kush auto is showing the most problems with it, I think because of her being in a larger, coupled with the start of the stretch, she's higher up than the others.
> 
> What distance would some of you lec owners recommend? I've been trying to keep it at about 20 inches, just now before I raised it it was about 16 or 17" above the plant in the middle, starbud, which is a little taller than the others except the auto.


Good idea to keep that a bit higher until the get a bit bigger or until you start floweing. I flower at ~20" which is still pretty intense. For veg you'd be fine to have it 24-30" imo, I could see them getting heat/light stress at anything less than 24".


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## borbor (Mar 7, 2015)

Wow, more than I thought even, I'll bring it up a lil' more to make sure.
My first try at growing was with CFLs, I think through that I taught myself a bad habit (more light! closer to plants! more!!!! closer!!!!)


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## GroErr (Mar 7, 2015)

borbor said:


> Wow, more than I thought even, I'll bring it up a lil' more to make sure.
> My first try at growing was with CFLs, I think through that I taught myself a bad habit (more light! closer to plants! more!!!! closer!!!!)


Yeah not these, nothing like CFL's  When I first ran these I didn't have a lot of reference and tried different heights. At anything below 18-20" I got bleaching/burn on the top canopy leaves in flowering.


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## greenghost420 (Mar 7, 2015)

the lec 315 only covers 3x3?


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## GroErr (Mar 7, 2015)

greenghost420 said:


> the lec 315 only covers 3x3?


Depends on what you're using it for and your height. In veg you could use it at 32-34" and cover 4x4 easy, maybe a bit more. Not a ton of grows with these but they cover a 3x3 well at 20" in flowering, but you could stretch that to 3.5 x 3.5 easy imo, run it at 22" above. I'll be doing that next round with one to see how far they can stretch and produce tight bud.


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## greenghost420 (Mar 8, 2015)

sorry for repeating myself/yourself lol


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## borbor (Mar 8, 2015)

GroErr said:


> Yeah not these, nothing like CFL's  When I first ran these I didn't have a lot of reference and tried different heights. At anything below 18-20" I got bleaching/burn on the top canopy leaves in flowering.


just got home from work and saw the girls, they're responding very well to my raising the light! 
maybe this is something to be said about querkle, but that plant, while the smallest and slowest growing, seems to have tolerated my early abuses like a champ. healthiest in the garden, surpassing both starbud and midnight kush. Brazil amazonia's very first leaf set is all yellow like a fan leaf at the end of flower, for a few days I've just figured those two are gonna die but all the new growth looks good.


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## borbor (Mar 9, 2015)

still lookin' good, the blue kush auto is really taking off, still looks heat stressed, raised the light another inch or two. 

The others all look good, better than yesterday. Starbud is the tallest, about 9 inches, with 6 nodes. Midnight kush is a little shorter, but with one more node, and she was also trained a little, very lightly. 


all this pre-flowering stuff-
Not exactly sure on when the switch is getting flipped to 12/12. the original plan was this tuesday, but they're definitely not ready. So I'm gonna have to pay more money for the electricity (like $15 a week tops, not a big deal). 
I've been thinking that I'd flip the lights whenever the two panels from area 51 got here. Seems like it might be a while til they show up, so that could work out perfectly. would be nice to keep the auto under 18/6 with a flowering light t
Wondering about when I should transplant the ladies to their larger pots. Starbud, midnight kush, and maybe querkle depending on space are gonna go in 7 gallon smart pots, the rest of em in 5 gallons. based on my observations, this batch 64 moonshine stuff could use a little more perlite, so I might add about a cup per 5 gallon pot, or 3-4 cups to the whole bag. They're all in one gallon pots now (except the burmese kush in a 2 gallon...oops!)
anybody have any suggestions on when to transplant? I wanted to do it about a week before 12/12, but don't really have a way of telling if they're ready or if all the soil is just gonna break apart. That's one issue I've found with smart pots- in regular pots you can see if roots are showing through the drainage holes and how much. 


overall, how we lookin'?


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## borbor (Mar 9, 2015)

group shot

p.s.
woohoo! "well known member"!


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## GroErr (Mar 9, 2015)

borbor said:


> group shot
> 
> p.s.
> woohoo! "well known member"!


Nice, some happy looking plants coming up in there


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## Ace Yonder (Mar 10, 2015)

Very nice! That's a good lookin' group of girls there!


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## borbor (Mar 10, 2015)

thanks!
Just made a rookie mistake though 
thought now would be an alright time to transplant the bigger girls. I started with midnight kush and unrolled the pot really carefully. I was already sketched out vs transplanting from plastic pots, but the bottom of the pot really clung onto some roots, I don't think the result is gonna be good. I hope I'm overreacting a little bit and she bounces back quickly, though I don't have high hopes for her when I open the tent tomorrow, really bummed about that since she's been growing so strong so far.
I put her into a 7 gallon. After that I examined the bottom of some of the other plant's pots and saw lots of roots poking out. I'd read about burying smart pots in smart pots online before but just didn't think it would really work. Did it anyway, so starbud is now buried in a 7 gallon and brazil amazonia in a five gallon. I've gotta go to the hydro store for some more stuff but I'll do querkle soon. If it works, then smart pots are really awesome for transplanting, but if not then they should only be used as a final pot right?


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## GroErr (Mar 10, 2015)

borbor said:


> If it works, then smart pots are really awesome for transplanting, but if not then they should only be used as a final pot right?


I use them all the way through, plastic party cup to 1 gal fabric, then 3 gal, then 5 or 7 gal. I find the fabric pots much easier to transplant. I wouldn't be too concerned as long as you didn't do a ton of damage they'll bounce back.


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## Mohican (Mar 10, 2015)

I have put smart pots in bigger pots and it works just fine!

Babies are looking good!


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## borbor (Mar 10, 2015)

Cool, thanks guys I'm feeling a little more confident (but not so much as ace yonder's avatar)

It wasn't like the rootball fell apart while transplanting or anything, just scared me that it felt like I was ripping away the bottom of the pot. I think it should have been a little more moist, but thinking back...I've seen some cannabis plants bounce back from much much crazier shit.

Since I already buried two of the pots, and I'm guessing the roots that were showing through the bottom of those are probably already starting to grow, I guess it'll be kind of a side by side for me, at least I might learn about what method I like better. I don't doubt the ability of the roots to grow through the bottom anymore since I've seen it (though I bet it slows em down), What I'm skeptical about it the roots going through the sides, but we'll see by the end of flower I guess. 

one thing that kind of seems cool with smart pots is that if burying them does work well, you can make a pot any size and footprint you want, for example, burying a 4 gallon smart pot halfway deep with half the pot sticking above the soil in a 7 gallon would give you a 9 gallon tiered smart pot that takes up the footprint of a 7 gallon. it'd be a little weird to figure out how to water (how much in bottom, how much in top? but I think it sounds cool. I don't see a reason to try it myself until at least a few grows from now, but has this occurred to anyone else?


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## borbor (Mar 10, 2015)

Just opened the tent, looks pretty good! Starbud got her period!

pics of her first preflower later tonight!


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## borbor (Mar 10, 2015)

Starbud was definitely sturdy enough for some real lst so I just did that, also, it helped me get a pic of her preflower 
last night when I transplanted them I removed the ties from brazil amazonia and midnight kush, they've already bounced back.

I tied starbud down pretty radically though. wonder how long til she peeks up at the light again. there's definitely gonna be a few flower tops on her and I'll be sure to keep that tie in place.

I just raised the light a few inches, hope that helps with the leaf curling, especially on brazil amazonia and midnight kush


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## Mohican (Mar 11, 2015)

Your garden is so beautiful! I love the Kush leaves 

I bent a plant over when it was small because it was blocking the sun from an almost finished plant. The bent plant eventually straightened back up and now is the shape of an upside-down question mark!



Cheers,
Mo


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## borbor (Mar 12, 2015)

Nice! I want something like that to show off to friends and family. My dream is to one day train a plant going one direction, and then have it double back on itself and spiral around the stem, it'll take years!

Thanks for the kind words everyone! keeps me extra motivated to join club CMH, and on what I'm considering my first grow it amps me up and makes me not wanna let you down!

Got home from work and saw starbud was pointing straight up at the light again, bouncing back quickly from LST. I removed a paperclip from the chain tying her down, bringing the top further down, and hooked the plant onto the chain higher up in a second spot. before I went to work I tied down one of her taller branches in the opposite direction of the main stem. My main idea is to almost scrog her, trying to make it so if you're looking straight down on the plant from above, you can't see the pot. I want every branch to be a cola, so I'm thinking I'll try to keep the canopy super even and dense at about the level it is now, just filling out more and more until the area 51 lights get here. The day they get here I'll fim the tip on her, to try to focus on making every branch/future cola fill out a bit, and then 5 days to a week later start 12/12

midnight kush isn't showing much growth, but she's not turning funny colors or shriveling up or anything, so let's hope in 12 hours when I check on her, node #9 opens up.

Querkle is actually doing pretty well, goin' on nine inches, those leaves at the top are nodes 6 and 7. I've read that she does well topped but I dunno if I want to. I'm definitely not gonna lst her though, too short in the first place. What I keep thinking is to either supercrop her or just let her go as normal. 

Brazil amazonia is still boring. slow vegger for sure. and I've read she could take 100 days to flower! I should have thought about that in more detail earlier. Also, I can't be positive on the sex of brazil or querkle yet, 

Fool's gold, for being 10 days behind, Is definitely growing fast, to say the least. I'm thinking she'll produce well for being a bit behind.

Burmese kush and afghan kush are still behind for sure.


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## Ace Yonder (Mar 12, 2015)

Last year I played around with LST, it is incredibly fun, I plan on doing some artsy fartsy bending and training this year now that I know my way around a little bit. This was my favorite, but it sadly wound up being a male


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## borbor (Mar 12, 2015)

YES YES YES!!!!
EXACTLY! Sweet plant dude that's art,


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## borbor (Mar 12, 2015)

oh no! I turned the big fan on to blow the plants around a little, came back a few minutes later and the autoflower had leaned/blown over significantly! I tied her back upright, hope she's okay though.

was trying to see if I could try to fix the slight bit of canoeing in a lot of the other plants, and the claws on that one. I'm mostly thinking it's underwatering as far as the canoeing goes, not gonna overdo it though. 

otherwise still chuggin' along!


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## borbor (Mar 16, 2015)

Sorry it's been so long! large update


I think querkle is a boy, but it might take a bit longer to know for sure  Hoping for the best. I'm half tempted to try to find a way to keep it if it is a male. It's growing really dense and bushy, starting to go faster, the stems smell awesome and grapey with a little finger rub, It might be a really good male for breeding, especially because it's not OG. everything is crossed with damn OG. I don't see very many people breeding tga strains except tga.
  
Midnight kush is doing well. Just over a foot tall with 10 nodes. I'm almost thinking about some kind of training for her, depending on the stretch she might get too tall!
 
I really LSTed the hell out of starbud!
 
Brazil Amazonia was short even before the minor lst, but now she's bushy! I like the way her leaves look, and I think I saw a preflower the other day, though I could have been mistaken. Nice to have a sativa hanging out. 
 
Fool's gold is going like a champ! I was getting her mixed up with querkle until I separated them. I'm a goon and I covered part of the lens with my finger so as not to confuse it with the other plants, but looking at the full size image, that was dumb
 
Afghan kush is also speeding up
 
Burmese kush is picking up as well, she's got roots sticking out the bottom of her 2 gallon pot, so I think now's about the time she should start popping up. 
 

The blue kush autoflower is doing good. developing buds. I bought flowering nutes today and I've just been giving regular water to this one for about a week, I'll start her flowering nutes next watering. I'm getting pretty anxious for those lights to arrive from a51, I want to be able to keep her under pretty direct light but I'm also totally ready to up-pot the fools gold, burmese, and afghan, I just need the space that would be afforded by those lights. I'm pretty sure with those two rw-75s I'll have enough light to stuff my 4x4, anybody have any thoughts on that? It'd also be nice to have her under more of a flowering spectrum asap, especially while she's got some time under 18/6 left. I almost wish I could keep vegging until she's done but I know she's not the main event!
 

I'm really excited to see what starbud does during the stretch after I do the 12/12 flip. I wanna see 4-8 little towers emerge from that pile of fan leaves. one branch was tied away from the main stem, then tied back toward the main stem farther up, so it might have a "C" shape in it near the bottom. two other branches I tied together so they'd both hit the top closer to the middle, but at the top of the canopy I tied them away from each other, so they'll both look like "7"s, and the main stem emerges from the soil, goes to a 45 degree angle for 8 inches up, then straightens at the top. I'm pretty much trying to say I feel like I'm crafting a cool plant that'll look awesome and probably produce pretty well by the end of it.


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## borbor (Mar 17, 2015)

here's a group shot, and some more pics of my personal favorite, and an image showing what I did to which branches on the beautiful starbud.

edit: oh yeah, fun fact- those two branches on starbud that are both bent like "7"s are also both tied together, and that tie is tied to the main stem!


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## borbor (Mar 17, 2015)

by the way, in the above group shot, querkle is hiding behind starbud.
Man I'm in love with that starbud plant, all the leaves look awesome too. a lot of them are huge, and with 11 fingers!


right now in the back row there's a 5 gallon, a 7 gallon, and a one gallon, in that order.
in the front there's a 5 gallon, a two gallon, and a 7 gallon, with two one gallons crammed in front of the two gallon.
There's plenty more space in the tent, but the light isn't as great. I would have transplanted today but realized I would have had to put someone in a darker corner. Got my supplies though, so I'm at the ready. I have a three gallon smart pot, two five gallon smart pots, saucers to go beneath them, and a little over 15 gallons of soil. Won't transplant querkle until I know the sex. I'll probably put the afghan kush in the three gallon, supposed to be a small plant anyway, and if smaller pots reduce yield, I know where to get plenty of afghan kush, I don't need to grow it to get it.
If querkle's a girl it's definitely getting a 5 gallon or more.
of course, some time into flowering the autoflower will come down, I'm guessing late april. That'll free up space then, but doesn't do much right now.


A couple questions-
with the LEC and the two RW 75s in my 4x4 do you guys think it's not pushing it too far to try to flower 8 plants, two in 7 gallons, 5 in five gallons and one in a three gallon?
I sometimes hear "they can as much as triple in height in flower," I know a key phrase here is "as much as" but do you think I'm gonna be pushing the height? it's a gorilla tent, so it's 6'7", I was gonna get the height extension kit but I didn't wanna put it on until this cycle was done just for convenience. If I gotta do it though, better while they're vegging. Think I can get by without it this round?

finally, the dumbest question in the world, if I started flowering this saturday (day 46 from seed), does anybody have a ballpark guess? I know there's no way to tell until you're putting the dry buds on a scale, but just wondering what an experienced grower might say would be a _feasible_ expectation.
I'm really hoping to hit 10 or more ounces. does it seem like something that could be done pretty easily with my set-up at this point, or am I more set up to pull down like a qp? Like I said, not looking for exact numbers, just not trying to set myself up for disappointment too. If I need to veg more I'd rather somebody let me know that instead of giving me the holier-than-thou "pointless to ask, about a *£*" standard, canned RIU automated telephone system response.




EDIT:I just realized that this may have been lost in the massive update- does that look like a ball on querkle?

EDIT EDIT: Another question- what do you guys think of my paperclip LST method? somebody complimented it on RIU in my CFL grow years ago, so I've assumed so far that it's a legit method. Based on one other noob complimenting me, stupid I know.
What I liked about it then was that I could clip the paperclips on to the side of the plastic pots I was using, which was convenient. What I like about it now is that...you know how paperclips have a loop around a smaller loop? without even unhooking the plant or anything, you can just slide one clip down onto the smaller loop on the adjacent clip, shortening the length by only about 1 mm.of course, you can only do that to as many paperclips as you have in the chain, but if you want to pull something down even further, you can also just remove a paperclip

anybody see anything wrong with paperclips? I don't see why anybody would, but that's why I'm asking


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## GroErr (Mar 17, 2015)

Wow, quite an update. That querkle is a bit blurry but nothing to worry about right now so just keep an eye on it over the next week, see if you can get some clearer close-up pics in a few days. I think I see a potential pistil there but it's just a sliver and blurry.

As far as space, you're Ok right now. That one at the back-left, you may want to tie that one down a bit, it looks like it could go very tall if you don't. If that's the maximum height you have it looks like you want to flip soon, hard to tell from a pic but you'll need 18-20" away from the light or risk some bleaching/burn. So you can either flip soon or extend the tent. If you have some room to move the light up you can extend the veg a bit.

Interesting paper clip idea, never used them but should work fine, anything that can hold the branches down will work. Some bamboo sticks or the like would work and give you some support later for heavier branches.


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## Mohican (Mar 17, 2015)

Paper clips are a great idea!


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## borbor (Mar 17, 2015)

GroErr said:


> Wow, quite an update. That querkle is a bit blurry but nothing to worry about right now so just keep an eye on it over the next week, see if you can get some clearer close-up pics in a few days. I think I see a potential pistil there but it's just a sliver and blurry.
> 
> As far as space, you're Ok right now. That one at the back-left, you may want to tie that one down a bit, it looks like it could go very tall if you don't. If that's the maximum height you have it looks like you want to flip soon, hard to tell from a pic but you'll need 18-20" away from the light or risk some bleaching/burn. So you can either flip soon or extend the tent. If you have some room to move the light up you can extend the veg a bit.
> 
> Interesting paper clip idea, never used them but should work fine, anything that can hold the branches down will work. Some bamboo sticks or the like would work and give you some support later for heavier branches.


cool thanks, I have about another 16 inches or so I can raise the light. the top of the one in the back left is about 20" from the bulb. It's the autoflower, so I've been thinking this is probably about as tall as she'll get, could I be wrong? I feel like I've noticed less vertical growth and more bud formation lately. 

definitely gotta find a better camera than my phone, I think there's one sitting around the house, I'll grab a photo once the lights come on


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## GroErr (Mar 17, 2015)

borbor said:


> cool thanks, I have about another 16 inches or so I can raise the light. the top of the one in the back left is about 20" from the bulb. It's the autoflower, so I've been thinking this is probably about as tall as she'll get, could I be wrong? I feel like I've noticed less vertical growth and more bud formation lately.
> 
> definitely gotta find a better camera than my phone, I think there's one sitting around the house, I'll grab a photo once the lights come on


Ok, you'll want to eventually run them as high as you can but that should give you some breathing room with having the extra 16" available, thought it looked close to the 20" mark in the pic. You should consider flipping soon, those will fill the tent quick once they stretch and although you have a little bit of space you don't want to cut it too close as some of those could double in height. Better go buy a box of paper clips


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## borbor (Mar 18, 2015)

rearranged the tent again, I want this to pretty much be the permanent setup, I'll keep them in the same spots when I transplant the last ones up
back row- Midnight kush, Brazil amazonia, querkle&burmese kush
front row- blue kush auto,afghan kush&fool's gold, starbud.

I transplanted the afghan kush into a three gallon. I'm waiting til I'm sure about the sex of querkle to know if I'll put both fool's gold and burmese kush in five gallons, or if I'll put querkle in a five gallon and those two in three gallons.

I just measured the distance I can still raise my light, it's only 14" so I'm gonna go ahead and order the height extension kit.
just after taking the photo, I raised the light a couple of inches
oops, just noticed midnight kush is completely obscured haha


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## Mohican (Mar 18, 2015)

Time to get a bigger tent!


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## borbor (Mar 19, 2015)

tried to get a good shot of the suspect querkle with a real camera. I suppose it's time for a new camera. You'd think after all my time on this planet I would have learned to tell the difference between boys and girls without raising my hand and asking the prof for help.
also, looks like it'd be just irresponsible to not transplant fool's gold right here and right now. I didn't expect to see that when I lifted the pot!


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## borbor (Mar 19, 2015)

back row- midnight kush, querkle, brazil amazonia, fool's gold
front row- Blue kush auto, afghan kush & burmese kush (in front of each other), starbud

the height extension kit shipped today, no idea on the rw-75s. I'm guessing monday or tuesday I can flip to 12/12. 

Last night I did a little more lst on starbud. The two first branches are exhibiting this whorled phyllotaxy (3 leaves per node), and one of those is the branch I bent like an "L", I haven't read much about this trait (mutation?) but I think I remember reading a couple of years ago that it can yield a little more. anybody ever have a plant like that? I've known about it for quite a while, I've just kept forgetting to mention it in these posts but it might even be obvious in some of the older starbud pics. 
Last night I tied the main stem again, so now it's kinda hook shaped, and tied down a branch poking above the canopy
I feel like I'm just about done sculpting starbud.


just watered ALL the ladies! I never get to do that! seems like some are always thirstier than others! Hydro sounds easier for this reason, and also, it's quite a pain in the ass to get all the way back to midnight kush


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## GroErr (Mar 19, 2015)

borbor said:


> tried to get a good shot of the suspect querkle with a real camera. I suppose it's time for a new camera. You'd think after all my time on this planet I would have learned to tell the difference between boys and girls without raising my hand and asking the prof for help.
> also, looks like it'd be just irresponsible to not transplant fool's gold right here and right now. I didn't expect to see that when I lifted the pot!


I would have liked the post but looks like you have a male there  Give it a couple of days to make sure but I'd leave it in that pot.


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## borbor (Mar 19, 2015)

just the wrong timing 
who knows, maybe in a year or two with a couple more tents I'll find myself popping a 20 pack of querkle in hopes of finding a good male, I know for sure next round I wanna do some tga. maybe querkle, or something else, but I've always admired sub's strains.

edit:
okay I'm SERIOUSLY done moving them around now, 
very back row-querkle, burmese kush
middle row: midnight kush, brazil amazonia, fool's gold
front row: blue kush auto, starbud, afghan kush

saw a change on a51's website about rw-150's being temporarily in stock, I wonder if that means anything about the 75s


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## borbor (Mar 22, 2015)

hahaha, I FORGOT to check on the plants before work, which is amazing considering the fact that I think about them about once every 15 seconds minimum. came home and wow! they're huge! they were also pretty thirsty. 


wishing I named this thread "first grow! lec 315, starbud, and others..."

Starbud is kicking ass! the only issue I'm having with her is trying to keep the canopy even. there's at least 8 tops all demanding attention, after the stretch the lower half of the plant is gonna be a menagerie! Midnight kush is also going at a good rate. She was pretty damn tall, so a couple of nights ago I tied her down, she bounced back up immediately, so last night (about 24 hrs before picture was taken) I tied her down again, possibly too far, but she is bouncing back, just a little slowly. Brazil amazonia has surprised me in the last week, really starting to take off, made me glad I tied her down before, I did it again last night in the opposite direction (C shaped main stem) and she's bounced back. lots of side branching on her. fool's gold is blowing up! bigger than querkle and brazil, which both had a 10 day head start. Afghan kush is starting to speed up, Burmese kush is still pretty slow, I wonder if that's because she hasn't been transplanted. querkle is growing, but hasn't shown me much more as far as sex.
I dunno how to feel about the blue kush auto. The way it leans over it's like the main stem is growing from the very side of the pot, so it's shading a lot of midnight kush. I worry that the plant may be stressed by that, and the thought of autoflower hermie pollen floating around my tent really GRINDS MY GEARS. However, it's getting stinky and crystally

How much longer would you guys say I got on that autoflower? I've looked and can't even find anything from dinafem about flowering time, I just emailed them about it, but don't expect much applicable info from them.

wednesday is day 50, if my lights aren't here by then, we're goin' 12/12 anyway


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## Mohican (Mar 22, 2015)

Looking awesome Borbor!


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## GroErr (Mar 22, 2015)

Looking good in there! Don't know much about autos but it looks like another 3-4 at least weeks based on the bud development. One thing you'll need to watch for with these lights is they mature fast in the first 3 weeks of 12/12, and typically they finish anywhere from 3-6 days faster than my LED's.


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## borbor (Mar 23, 2015)

Hopefully the fedex gods are pleased with my work and tomorrow I get my height extension and leds, don't have a great feeling about the leds though, the website still says "expected wait time 3/20/2014." Somehow I suspect that I'm going to have to flip to 12/12 on wednesday without them.


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## GroErr (Mar 23, 2015)

borbor said:


> Hopefully the fedex gods are pleased with my work and tomorrow I get my height extension and leds, don't have a great feeling about the leds though, the website still says "expected wait time 3/20/2014." Somehow I suspect that I'm going to have to flip to 12/12 on wednesday without them.


You're good to flip this week if it doesn't arrive, they wont start any significant stretch for 4-6 days after you flip and the extension should have arrived before that. Cheers.


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## borbor (Mar 23, 2015)

word, I probably would have flipped yesterday, but I'd really like to wait just so I can say they were officially flowered the whole time under the a51/lec combo. I think today I might switch out the bulbs for the flowering bulb though.

found some cool info last night on uk420.com, dinafem's representative there says the blue kush auto is a new release for 2015, the freebies sent out with the attitude christmas promo are the first ones, which makes me feel special  I'm guessing though that that's often the case with freebies. I really wish she didn't get blown over, I think she'd be doing a lot better if she had stayed straight up.

guess I oughta take these on a walk, maybe when I get back I'll have some LEDs

this is worse than the wait for my attitude order


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## borbor (Mar 23, 2015)

lights just came on, opened the tent and saw this on the blue kush auto-

calcium def?


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## GroErr (Mar 23, 2015)

borbor said:


> lights just came on, opened the tent and saw this on the blue kush auto-
> 
> calcium def?


Looks like you could use some cal-mag, start of something there. You've got some tip burn, might want to back off a bit, want them as healthy as possible before flipping them.


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## borbor (Mar 24, 2015)

cool, I was thinking that strongly enough earlier that I did water her with some general organics CaMg+ in the mix, still had nutes though, 1 teaspoon of the cal mag in a gallon of distilled water with the regular dose of canna nutrients today. Usually I've been using tap water I let sit out as long as possible (usually 48 hrs+), they just drank faster than I had containers for this week. 

that pic was pretty much just of the autoflower, have you seen any tip burn or any problems in the other pics of the photos? 

I'll put a new round of pics up, this might be a two part or three part update for the picture limit. I'm gonna flip to 12/12 in less than 48 hours, so this could pretty much be the state of the veg tent. before flower. I just watered most of them with no nutes but with the camg+, I figure if the auto has a deficiency then these might pull more calcium once they flower and all become deficient, so better to anticipate that problem, right? I probably should have waited to water until after I posted this to make sure. Hope I'm right!


Afghan Kush- day 37 from seed- Just noticed the touch of the claw,I'll make sure to get right on that-
  
Fool's Gold- day 37 from seed- Not sure about what you'd find in a 10 pack of seeds, but this pheno is quick!-
  
Brazil Amazonia- day 48 from seed- Pray for the beautiful sativa! I don't pay as much attention to her as I should, since she's always hiding behind starbud, but she's really exploded.
  
Starbud- day 48 from seed- I never shut up about her. definitely playing favorites


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## borbor (Mar 24, 2015)

Midnight Kush- day 48 from seed- also a big fat leafy plant, I'm glad I tied her down last week.
 
Burmese Kush- day 37 from seed- still in a 2 gallon pot, gonna have to be the runt, still looks okay to me though. Sorry the second pic is blurry
 
Querkle- day 48 from seed- Yup, that's totes a dude. sucks Guess I'll put it toward compost tomorrow.
  

A group shot with the other camera, and a crappy pic of the buds on the autoflower.

the back left corner is querkle and burmese kush
the middle row is midnight kush, brazil amazonia, and fool's gold
front row is the autoflower, starbud, and afghan kush
 
While I was taking the photos I rotated the auto to have it lean against the wall a bit instead of shading a lot of midnight kush, that shouldn't be a problem right?



edit-man I'm really 50/50 on this autoflower, I hope she does okay and also hope if she doesn't that I see it and protect the real important plants in the garden from the auto I didn't care too much about. in the first place. The other plants ought to be able to hold themselves together in flower I think, bigger stems, more leaves, more established

edit again, just tied the autoflower high up with a support in the dirt instead of to the pot


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## GroErr (Mar 24, 2015)

I get the odd pheno that likes a bit extra cal-mag, have one of my PPP x BB crosses right now that got some defs about 4 weeks out of the soil from seed. Some extra cal-mag and it straightened out, now it's fine.

No problem moving the plants around, I do that all the time to get the best light spread.


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## Mohican (Mar 24, 2015)

I give cal-mag with every watering. They never seem to mind. I went one season without it and had very sad plants.

I added epsom salts to my dirt in the garden where the Mulanje crosses are growing and a week later they turned dark green!



Bottom right - see how much darker they are then the others?!

Cheers,
Mo


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## borbor (Mar 24, 2015)

got the height extension today! definitely enough vertical space now!


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## GroErr (Mar 24, 2015)

Nice, bring on the stretch


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## borbor (Mar 25, 2015)

haha yeah! my tent is 7'7" now!

I've made it this far holding off on the flowering trigger, I'm gonna flip tomorrow when I get home from work, that way I make it an even 50 day veg. Also, the estimated delivery time from the tracking number for the LEDs is on thursday, but as of 7:00 PM tonight they were a six hour drive away, so I have a good feeling about tomorrow. If they don't show tomorrow no problem, it'll be the last veg day and I'll have a 12 hour shift to keep me occupied. 
I had one of my friends that grows over to help me with the height extension. Glad I did, I would have had a hell of a time alone! Since he doesn't drive and I live on the other side of town, I usually go to his place to hang out, so it was also the first time he'd seen my plants in person. I feel like he was pretty impressed, he was definitely pretty fascinated with the autoflower, said it looked really good to him. Neither of us have ever seen an auto before so it's pretty cool for both of us. He grows with a 600 watt air cooled hps in a 4x8 tent, he definitely doesn't use all of the tent though, obviously. it's just convenient for him to be able to actually get in the tent and walk around. I gotta say that's really nice too.


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## borbor (Mar 25, 2015)

LED's are here! hung one over the left side, gotta go to the hydro store tomorrow to get more rope ratchets, then I'll put the other up!
the lights are gonna go off 3 hours earlier tonight, and come on 3 hours later tomorrow


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## GroErr (Mar 25, 2015)

borbor said:


> LED's are here! hung one over the left side, gotta go to the hydro store tomorrow to get more rope ratchets, then I'll put the other up!
> the lights are gonna go off 3 hours earlier tonight, and come on 3 hours later tomorrow


That mix of spectrum is going to rock in flowering, can't wait to see them go


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## borbor (Mar 26, 2015)

yeah, when I did my cfl "grow" years ago I remember learning about light and spectrum and being fascinated. I started that seed with a 100w incandescent! great stuff to learn about. My dad was an astrophysicist so I had a headstart and prior disposition.

I think it's gonna be awesome for flower as well! hopefully I can convert some friends to this new tech!

Damn they're growing! I'd do more LST but the flower starts now!
group shot 2 hours before their first 12 hours of dark.

dunnno why querkle is alive, I guess tomorrow I'll compost him

Pics of day 1 flower tomorrow 
also, these two lights are 22-24" above the canopy, I've got a few days before I gotta move them again


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## GroErr (Mar 26, 2015)

borbor said:


> yeah, when I did my cfl "grow" years ago I remember learning about light and spectrum and being fascinated. I started that seed with a 100w incandescent! great stuff to learn about. My dad was an astrophysicist so I had a headstart and prior disposition.
> 
> I think it's gonna be awesome for flower as well! hopefully I can convert some friends to this new tech!
> 
> ...


CLF's and incandescent lights - lol Hey that was the tech but laughable now in comparison to the lights you have going this round 

Oh you'll have to move them for sure. Going into 12/12 I typically set the lights at around 26-28" above the canopy and let them stretch into it, rarely end up having to move them again, may have to move the Blue Dream lights up if they stretch any more than 2" more but I think they're done and sitting at 20"-22" right now.


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## borbor (Mar 26, 2015)

GroErr said:


> CLF's and incandescent lights - lol Hey that was the tech but laughable now in comparison to the lights you have going this round
> 
> Oh you'll have to move them for sure. Going into 12/12 I typically set the lights at around 26-28" above the canopy and let them stretch into it, rarely end up having to move them again, may have to move the Blue Dream lights up if they stretch any more than 2" more but I think they're done and sitting at 20"-22" right now.


oh yeah? my working plan was to raise it every couple of days so it was pretty much always around 20", would it be better just to set it high and let them grow up?


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## Ace Yonder (Mar 26, 2015)

borbor said:


> hahaha, I FORGOT to check on the plants before work, which is amazing considering the fact that I think about them about once every 15 seconds minimum. came home and wow! they're huge! they were also pretty thirsty.
> 
> 
> wishing I named this thread "first grow! lec 315, starbud, and others..."
> ...


Damn dude, those are some beautiful pink pistils! All your plants look amazing, I am so excited to see that Starbud in bloom! I just found out that Hortilab may be releasing/already released a Sativa dom Starbud Sister, and if that's true then those are some seeds I am gonna have to get my hands on ASAP! Because my only hesitation with starbud is that it's chunky indica buds my be a little mold prone for my wet outdoor climate, so a sativa version, whooo boy. Anyways, enough about that, I'll wrap up by saying again that your plants look fucking great, pardon my french.


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## borbor (Mar 26, 2015)

hey thanks man! It's super exciting hearing from you guys that they're looking good!
I keep seeing things about "starbud's sister," was thinking of maybe ordering a pack of that for the next round, or revegging this fine lady and taking six clones, I guess it all depends on what I see in the next eight weeks! I'm lucky (I guess) to have such low humidity where I am

I notice the autoflower doesn't seem to be getting much better, if anything I'd say possibly worse. Still, she's smelling better and better each day and sizing up a bit more than I expected. When I open the tent now it's an unmistakable cannabis smell thanks to her,
weird, now that I look at the pictures they really don't look the same, Seems like the camera is trying to make those leaves look better than they actually are.

I also noticed just now that at least with my cell phone camera I'm getting those vertical bars on my screen through the camera, but I'm not seeing that in the actual images

this is what they sound like:


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## GroErr (Mar 27, 2015)

borbor said:


> oh yeah? my working plan was to raise it every couple of days so it was pretty much always around 20", would it be better just to set it high and let them grow up?


You can go either way, I do it the lazy way, don't like to move them too many times, once is typically enough and even that if I guess the stretch right I may not move them at all. I prefer to let them stretch up towards the light because I bring them in with very tight nodes and bushy (LED's that I veg with tend to do this), having the light a bit higher gets them to stretch a bit more and opens them up a bit.


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## borbor (Mar 28, 2015)

the stretch begins! seems like they've all gained at least a couple of inches. raised the light a bit.
Looks like afghan kush is probably a male. that makes brazil amazonia the only other seed in the tent that wasn't feminized and I think I've seen some pistils on her. so that should bring me down to six plants, five when the autoflower is done. Burmese kush is in a 2 gallon, and the size difference I've seen between plants in different sized smart pots is pretty obvious, so I don't really expect a whole lot out of her. not supposed to be the main event anyway


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## borbor (Mar 29, 2015)

up up and away!
Here's some group shots:
   
And here's a shot of starbud- right next to the label check out my favorite cola! excited to see what three leaves per set does against the other branches on the plant.
 
Here's a couple of midnight kush-in the group shots she's in the back right. she seems to love the LED!
  
Here's one of burmese kush. she's put on the most "stretch" so far since 12/12, I think
 

more coming within the hour, rearranged a little, very happy with it, so I'll grab some more photos


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## borbor (Mar 29, 2015)

got brazil amazonia finally free, she's on the right side instead of the left, where I felt she was getting overshadowed by the autoflower, I could never see her or get good pics until now. she's got a nice thick stem from the LST, and lots of side branches. hope she flowers fairly fast under the CMH LED combo, she's listed on seedfinder to flower at 95 days!
   
here's a couple of attempts at using my phone's camera to take pics of afghan kush's suspected balls, I'm pretty sure tomorrow I won't need to ask anybody, but can't be too sure!
  
Some Blue kush auto buds- the smell is better than I expected. I feel like I've learned as a newb what an autoflower truly was. It's like the challenge mode, lightning round. It's like driving around with no spedometer, headlights, or directions and all the stoplights are broken
  
a couple more group shots, I love these ladies.


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## borbor (Mar 30, 2015)

24 hours later, busted out the other camera to grab some pics of the blue kush auto, packing on trichs, and smell! I finally put my finger on it! It was stupid, The only words I've been able to come up with for the smell are "really good" and "sweet," now it's unmistakable! It's a straight up obvious blueberry smell, I wonder which parent she got that trait from 

stretching! raised the light a bit more tonight. I've got 17" of space left to raise the light.
If that's not enough space I can take the hooks off of the light and clip the ratchets directly to the light, which would cut off another 3 or 4 inches, The bulb is 22 inches above the highest point on the canopy


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## Ace Yonder (Mar 30, 2015)

Nice man, your Blue Kush Auto is really packin' on the weight! Really makes me wish I had more light on mine haha, you're probably looking at close to 3x the yield I'm gonna pull, maybe more! The smell is really great isn't it? Probably smells the most like fruit and the least like weed of anything I've grown so far. The thing I'm most shocked by is how frosty they are, I had thought that the auto genes would leave it really lacking in the trichome department, but that doesn't seem the be the case at all, I really can't wait for dinafem to formally release it for sale haha


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## borbor (Mar 30, 2015)

Hey guys did I do a good job topping querkle?


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## Mohican (Mar 31, 2015)

Where is the before picture?!


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## borbor (Mar 31, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Where is the before picture?!


captain cuddles judged him yesterday. came back with a guilty verdict

afghan kush is also...uh...out of commision


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## borbor (Mar 31, 2015)

here's where we're at today, the pic of the bottom of the plant is exactly the plant you'd expect-starbud
some blue kush auto buds too
on all these photos, especially the ones with the nicer camera (file name starts with IMG instead of IMAG) remember, they get bigger if you hit the arrow next to the X in the top right corner


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## GroErr (Mar 31, 2015)

Looking good and like you'll have a full tent in there once they start stretching


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## borbor (Apr 1, 2015)

I just ordered a cheap 1'4" x 1'4" x 3'11" tent and a purple kessil h150  I think in a couple weeks I'll have a seed or two started, and order another led, maybe a kessil magenta or another a51 rw-75, depending on funds and a51's stock, to start my veg tent!
I know that size is really just good for one or two plants even in veg, but I'm thinking If I start one and throw it into flower a couple weeks after the auto is done, then I'll have another couple of oz coming my way not long after most of my first ladies are chopped. It'll also make it more worth it to run the tent for brazil amazonia who's supposed to take 90+ days to flower. Then, I can throw another plant in when I chop most of my plants, and have three plants in different stages of flower in that tent, and a plant in veg!

I still have 2 world of seeds Colombian gold and 1 WOS Brazil Amazonia, 3 g13 labs midnight kush, 3 th seeds HOG, and one top tao auto


speaking of HOG, went to my friend's house today, his plants are lookin' great for the most part, I tried to take a picture of his DNA genetics fuego but it just looks like shit with the hps light. it smells awesome and has some of the most dense trich coverage I've ever seen in person, however, we're both guessing he's gonna get an ounce at the most from that plant. the hog seed I gave him, on the other hand, looks like it could give him a qp, but neither of us can even find a trichome! crazy, but not a terrible shocker, the breeder had said fuego was bred strictly for its resin profile, and numerous people online have said that the hog is basically crap unless you get the "hawgsbreath" pheno

at the same time I gave him these seeds (as well as a blimburn grizzly purple kush and g13 white widow, grizzly purple looks good, white widow's having troubles), I gave another friend a querkle, an elemental seeds mango tango, g13 white lavender. and g13 white critical. I've never actually seen his garden, I just don't go to his house much, and when I do his plants are in a seperate room from where we hang out. he' always brings great smoke to match at get-togethers, excited to see what he does with those beans!


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## borbor (Apr 3, 2015)

Ugh, today was like the movie clerks

gave them a good watering just now, they needed it, it's been a while. Still just going off of the biocanna nutes feeding schedule, recently started giving calmag as well, it just has scared me to do so for some reason so far. I was thinking "k.i.s.s." so what they just got was- (dosages in ml per gallon)
8-10 ml bio vega
8 ml bio boost
2 ml bio rhizotonic
4 ml general organics CaMg+

and the autoflower got
12 ml bio flores
8 ml bio boost
2 ml bio rhizotonic
4 ml CaMg+


super excited about the veg tent, but I probably can't just set it up tomorrow when it comes, there's gonna be a couple things to work out with venting and stuff I think. I might throw the kessil in the flower tent for a little bit, as long as it's here and not doing anything else.
once my ambitions run higher I'll have to get a bigger veg tent, for sure, but this will definitely speed up the super boring "are we there yet?" seedling stage,
One of my friends in real life (who grows) said "that's stupid" when I told him I ordered a veg tent. It wasn't about the products, just about where I put my money, as opposed to parts for a new gaming computer since the beast I built 8 years ago died recently. I get that we have fun with that stuff but man, prioritize! The funny part to me is that someone who's been growing for almost a year and a half told me it was stupid that I ordered a veg tent while I was ordering some weed for him through a delivery service in town that likes me. but it sucks that he hasn't set up his veg tent yet!
I loaned him my unused secret jardin dr90 and it's still just sitting there wrapped up waiting to be set up!
I almost feel like I should be an asshole for half a minute and tell him I want/need it back before he's even set it up, to save us both the trouble of taking it down. just sucks I brought it over like 6 weeks ago, he got himself another ballast, hood and bulb,and can't take the two hours to set it all up, and it's still all in the same spot, while I could use an option for a veg tent or a drying tent!


um, "real life" aside, the plants are doing good! The only two reasons I don't have any pictures are that first of all, I wanted to take time off from constant pictures to build up anticipation, so there's gonna be a more noticeable difference between the last pics and the next pics. Could probably be considered petty of me, hahaha. 
they're definitely sizing up,though, I've followed a bit of groerr's advice and raised the lights a lot just now


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## borbor (Apr 5, 2015)

Day 60 from seed day 12 of 12/12
even though it's been a while, there's really not much to say for these pics. I like talking about my plants though so it's a long one anyway.
They're all getting bigger by the day, there's a pic of beneath starbud's canopy, a forest.
The blue kush auto seems to be fattening up, while packing on trichs and smell. Does anybody have a recommendation as to when to start flushing? Ace yonder's is about 30 days ahead of mine, so usually I take the fact that it's still alive as a sign that I shouldn't flush for at least a couple of weeks, but also, this plant is under a lot of light in comparison (not knocking him though! looks like amazing quality and probably with better gpw!) and I've heard from groerr about the CMHs finishing a bit faster, just no idea what to expect with the auto (my driving a car analogy from earlier applies here)
preflowers all over the place, I'm so excited for the real flowering to start! I'm noticing more preflowers on the branch with three leaves per node, I've heard before that they yield more, let's hope!
I took out the super small 15 watt circulation fan and let the big oscillating fan get back to work. 
The back row is burmese kush, fool's gold, and midnight kush
the front row is the blue kush auto, starbud, and brazil amazonia

Also, veg tent! 
surprised at how well the tent is actually made. I've had a little experience with shitty tents, so that's what I expected for the price I paid (especially considering the size, I'm guessing the primary demographic for these tents is probably saying "I'll be the coolest kid in school if I grow weed"), the poles are steel, they actually seem like the same poles as my gorilla tent, wouldn't be surprised if they got them from the same place. In fact, I'd be surprised if they didn't. 4 hanging bars across the top, like a tic tac toe board, which seemed like a lot for a space that small, but cool. I wish I'd kept the querkle male alive, it would totally be in there under 12/12. I realize this tent is too small to be a real veg tent, I can have 4 in solo cups or one in a one-gallon, and I checked, a 5 gallon also fits in there so I can use it to veg just one at a time without worrying about transplanting right at the start of 12/12. 
This tent (the growlab 40) would be perfect for anybody looking to keep one small male alive. Next time I see a decent male I'm gonna abandon this tent as a veg tent and make it my male tent while I order a better veg tent, or set up my 3x3 potentially. 
I'd say this growlab tent has better plastic connectors than my secret jardin 3x3. The SJ connectors just didn't look this sturdy, though for both companies they are plastic. The light-proofing on this growlab tent is actually something gorilla grow tents could take a lesson from. Not to say that this is more light-proof than my gorilla,I doubt it, but they way that they did the zippers actually is. Freakin' metal zippers! the zipper itself is lightproof also, and what I really like is the flaps, there's a square flap hanging down on the top middle with velcro on the three sides that aren't stitched to the tent, and the same thing on bottom! With my gorilla if the lights are on all I have to do is look at the bottom of the zipper to know they're on, with this growlab tent that doesn't happen, the light leaks pretty much only come from the vents, which is actually a design I usually like as well, the vents are totally removable with velcro on all 4 sides, you put the covers on inside the tent. In a tent this small I dunno if it's gonna be easy to put stuff on and take stuff off the sides, but in my big tent I would actually like that design better.

Nope, growlab isn't paying me any money, I'm just kinda surprised I got a brand new tent this decent for that cheap. My biggest gripe is that the ducting holes are 4" instead of 6", but really, a 4 inch fan is enough for any application from this tent.

the kessil LED is exactly what I expected. can't wait to see it perform on plants! I wish I could throw it in the flower tent now. hooking everything up would just be a pain in the ass, then when I get something to veg it'd be another pain in the ass to take down. I'm kind of debating getting two or three more kessils, the only issue is that I'm not sure of the value, This h15 purple cost me about $90 (priced $97 from growershouse, while they had a 15% off sale on all LEDs), I don't think you can get that $/watt elsewhere for less than $100. 
It sounds like an awesome idea to throw two h150 magentas (or purples) into the flowering tent, maybe even an h150 red as well, but at the price of two or three kessils, would it be better just to put it all toward a51? I almost think that the kessils would make a better flower tent in the long run, since the spectrum from magentas or purples next to the spectrum from rw-75s, next to the CMH would be pretty great for plant growth, very full.

I wonder a lot, could I add light that makes it worse? like, HYPOTHETICALLY since I'm not gonna do it no matter what, if I added a MH bulb or blue kessil or something somewhere in there, could it be detrimental to flowering, even though there's more light? Do they care about the spectrum, or does the spectrum just affect them whether they care or not? (if that makes sense)

Also wondering, I keep wanting to raise my lights higher, but will that be detrimental to the autoflower by a significant amount? should I put the kessil just above the auto just to keep it extremely well lit?


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## borbor (Apr 5, 2015)

by the way, in some of the bud pics of the autoflower you might notice some hairs, they're definitely from the dog, the problem isn't as bad as it looks. these pictures probably captured 50% of the loose hairs in the tent, but in any case, not mites, don't worry!


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## borbor (Apr 6, 2015)

Not much to post tonight regarding my current plants

Though tomorrow I'm 90% sure I'm getting a clone for the veg tent from craigslist. I know to really check thoroughly for bugs! If I do get it, it'll probably be mob boss. It's between mob boss and pre-98 bubba, and I figured I'm gonna have enough different kinds of kush as it is. 

his ad said he's using biocanna nutes, I'm guessing it helps that I am too!


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## GroErr (Apr 6, 2015)

Looking great in there borbor, wouldn't worry too much about extra spectrum, imo none of it will hurt but you may not get much return from the kessil as it's more veg spectrum. That said, mixing in the RW-75 spectrum should help with flowering and frost


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## borbor (Apr 6, 2015)

Indeed I think you're right about the rw 75/cmh helping with flowering and frost, I just opened it up to look at the blue kush auto for a second and I got excited and one thing led to another and I turned her around and turned starbud around and took pics.
when I turned starbud I noticed from that angle she's almost a big sphere! I wouldn't be surprised if half of my yield from these six plants was starbud, she dwarfs the blue kush auto already.

I'm seeing more of what ace was saying earlier about the trichs on the blue kush, I'm very pleased with her. It seems like pistils near the top are starting to turn orange, gonna try to keep an eye out for new pistil growth. I love the smell! makes me want to consider other dinafem blueberry strains!
  

Here's a couple of group shots, which are pretty much dominated by starbud, the first is before I rotated starbud, the second is after.
  
Here's some prefowers from starbud. It's really hard to get the correct angle, but the first pic is of the branch with 3 leaves per node, excited to see how it grows
  
Midnight kush-
 

Fool's Gold-gettin' big!


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## vitamin_green_inc (Apr 8, 2015)

So how do you like the coverage? You still have 9 total plants in that 4x4? I agree that the lesson won't add much....I could see a smaller 2x2 with 2 of those as a breeding /testing/male chamber though!


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## borbor (Apr 9, 2015)

vitamin_green_inc said:


> So how do you like the coverage? You still have 9 total plants in that 4x4? I agree that the lesson won't add much....I could see a smaller 2x2 with 2 of those as a breeding /testing/male chamber though!


Thanks for stopping in! I'm guessing by lesson you meant kessil and got autocorrected? 

I think what most people say is pretty spot on for coverage, amazing in a 3x3 and good in a 3.5x3.5, With those LED's I'm pretty confident about my spread, since the light definitely illuminated a 4x4 (I'd say you could veg a 5x5 with it) 

It's actually just six total plants now, two seven gallons in the middle, two five gallons on one side, and a 5 gallon and a two gallon on the other side.

just moved them around a bit which gave me the chance to take some good pics. The frost on the autoflower is really coming in!

group (before I moved some around)-
 
blue kush auto, had a chance to take her out and get some pics of the whole plant
    
burmese kush- two gallon!
  
starbud(the auto is outside the tent in this 2nd pic, so all that on the left is her)
  
the rare and elusive brazil amazonia


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## borbor (Apr 9, 2015)

Midnight kush- very tall, tallest in the tent by a couple inches, had to take a bottom, middle, and top pic. very little lst, but still some. sexy lady. 7 gallon.
   
blue kush auto closeups-


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## borbor (Apr 10, 2015)

day 15 of 12/12--- midnight kush is the big headline here!
buds!!! Also seeing some budding on fool's gold, and brazil amazonia really seems to appreciate me moving things around yesterday and giving her more room.
midnight kush main stem:
  
the midnight kush stem which, because of the light lst, is also the main stem:
 
group shot:
 
Brazil amazonia:
 
fool's gold:
 
blue kush auto, still chuggin' along, I started the flush last night, since she's an auto moved under 12/12 she should finish pretty fast, and from what I hear plants finish pretty quickly under both the cmhs and leds, she's at day 65 from seed, so if I flushed for two weeks she'd be at around 80 days old. I looked at the trichs last night and saw a lot of cloudy ones.
 

can't wait to get off work tomorrow and come see what they've done!


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## GroErr (Apr 10, 2015)

One benefit of those LEC's you get to see buds fast


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## borbor (Apr 11, 2015)

couldn't resist taking some pics of each one when I got home tonight!

group-


blue kush auto-


Burmese Kush budding-

Fool's gold-

Midnight kush-
 
Brazil amazonia-

Starbud-
main stem- Middle stem- Three-leaves-per-node stem

I wonder if starbud is budding slower due to genetics or the fact that there's so many tops compared to the rest of the plants, or both, or neither and I'm screwing up. I'm not worried very much about the latter, or any of it really.

just can't wait to see more! I'm most excited for the point where I can smell them all and get an idea of the flavors. especially brazil amazonia, I've been curious about that the whole time, since I've never been sold weed that was even pretending to have any heritage to that area. I can't think of any strains bred with anything originating that far into south america. So I'm really hoping that world of seeds is legit!


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## GroErr (Apr 11, 2015)

Tent's filling in quick, looking good, wouldn't worry about that starbud, you're only like a week or so into 12/12 and there are flowers coming in, just smaller, each strain will behave a little different.


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## borbor (Apr 12, 2015)

hey I was wondering, would it work for drying to use my small tent right next to my big tent, connected by some ducting, so the flowering tent would be pulling passive intake through the drying tent? Or would there be any kind of problem to having all my incoming air pass over my dead and drying plants first? the benefit I see is not having to use or buy an additional fan or filter, but not stinking up the house.


the plants are good, not much has changed other than what you may expect, so no pics, just expect bigger buds next time 
I can't wait to chop that blue kush, not just to smoke her, but to give the whole stage to the main attraction!


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## GroErr (Apr 12, 2015)

borbor said:


> hey I was wondering, would it work for drying to use my small tent right next to my big tent, connected by some ducting, so the flowering tent would be pulling passive intake through the drying tent? Or would there be any kind of problem to having all my incoming air pass over my dead and drying plants first? the benefit I see is not having to use or buy an additional fan or filter, but not stinking up the house.
> 
> 
> the plants are good, not much has changed other than what you may expect, so no pics, just expect bigger buds next time
> I can't wait to chop that blue kush, not just to smoke her, but to give the whole stage to the main attraction!


Could work, a flex vent between them as long as you can maintain passive intake through the connected tents. The filter/fan in the flower tent should be enough to maintain airflow, you may have to crank it a bit if you have it on variable. Would be a cheap way to do it and not have another fan/filter in the drying tent, worth a try. You want airflow to avoid any mold issues but you want to avoid air being pointed directly at the plants for a slower dry.


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## borbor (Apr 14, 2015)

GroErr said:


> Could work, a flex vent between them as long as you can maintain passive intake through the connected tents. The filter/fan in the flower tent should be enough to maintain airflow, you may have to crank it a bit if you have it on variable. Would be a cheap way to do it and not have another fan/filter in the drying tent, worth a try. You want airflow to avoid any mold issues but you want to avoid air being pointed directly at the plants for a slower dry.


cool, that's pretty much what I was hoping to hear! 
I'll probably give that plan a shot for drying the auto. If that doesn't seem to be working I'm sure I'll be fine in the closet

Just did a watering. I've been watering some of them in between though. mostly the burmese kush, dries up her 2 gallon pot way faster than the others. I also went to wal mart and got a new oscillating fan. The one I had already is good for airflow, but doesn't have a stand. 
Group before-
 
Starbud-
  
Midnight Kush-
  
Brazil amazonia-
 
Burmese Kush-
 
Fool's gold-
 

Blue Kush Auto coming in less than 20 mins!


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## borbor (Apr 14, 2015)

I took the blue kush auto out of the tent to water the brazil amazonia, figured I could get some good pics as long as she's outta the tent!

edit- also, the blue kush auto pics outside the tent were with the flash on


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## borbor (Apr 18, 2015)

mostly a verbal update, just not in the mood to take a bunch of pics, I typed most of this yesterday, so now there are actually a few pics. I just contradicted myself so hard in that sentence. 
The lights were raised again a few days ago, I feel bad for the blue kush auto- who knows what she would have done under 18/6 with the lights closer! the lights now are higher than they could have gone without the 1' tent extension, so I'm glad I bought it! The plants are about 24" away. Thanks for convincing me on that guys!

Brazil amazonia is looking awesome, actually. I didn't expect a 13 week strain to start off by building buds so quickly, hopefully she doesn't stop and the extra flowering time pays off.
midnight kush is looking good, still the most budding on it, I really like how it seems to me that for the past few weeks her fan leaves have all been sticking up "at attention" for pretty much the whole time. she must really get along with my nutes or watering or something.
starbud's still good, I'm counting like 8 tops on her. Expecting that by the end of the weekend she'll be showing me something more like midnight kush is right now.
fool's gold is cool, I haven't been paying much attention to it, but hoping it produces a good amount based on the genetics (big budxskunk #1)
burmese kush is definitely doing well, just tall and narrow most likely due to the pot size.

group-
 
starbud in front, midnight kush in back-
 
burmese kush in front, fool's gold in back, 
 
brazil amazonia-
 
blue kush auto-


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## borbor (Apr 18, 2015)

I was just starting to set up the veg/drying tent and noticed lights were on in the tent, though they shouldn't have been. I checked the timer, and apparently I was a total idiot when setting it to 12/12, because it's actually on 13/11! I think daylight saving time might have contributed to my confusion. I'm definitely blaming it on that at least. 
It's 13 on 11 off, you guys think it would be a good idea to switch to 12/12 or should I just let it go as is? I'm assuming switching to 12/12 should be fine since it's not like I'm making the lights-on period longer, I figure if anything it'd be a little better to gradually switch light cycles, though I'm sure the ideal is NOT three whole weeks of 13/11


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## firetruckjacklakai (Apr 18, 2015)

I ran a star bud and burmese recently, both really nice, my starbud pheno wasn't the best yeild but rock hard buds that were some of the frostiest I've seen. The burmese was very niceas well, good yeild and lost of frost as well. Cloned them both and running them again as we speak.


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## borbor (Apr 18, 2015)

firetruckjacklakai said:


> I ran a star bud and burmese recently, both really nice, my starbud pheno wasn't the best yeild but rock hard buds that were some of the frostiest I've seen. The burmese was very niceas well, good yeild and lost of frost as well. Cloned them both and running them again as we speak.


nice! I might pick a favorite and reveg after harvest for a clone

just today I noticed a problem on the burmese kush, some of the lower leaves are yellowing and the lower branches are looking BAD:
 
I'm guessing this must have been going on for a while and I just didn't inspect enough to see it, it's definitely been a busy week for me, 
looking through my jorge cervantes book this almost looks like a phosphorus deficiency to me, which would kinda make sense, the bio canna feeding schedule says to use the veg stuff for the first few weeks of 12/12 so I only switched to the flower formula for the most recent watering
just a few hours ago she got her 2nd dose of that


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## GroErr (Apr 19, 2015)

borbor said:


> I was just starting to set up the veg/drying tent and noticed lights were on in the tent, though they shouldn't have been. I checked the timer, and apparently I was a total idiot when setting it to 12/12, because it's actually on 13/11! I think daylight saving time might have contributed to my confusion. I'm definitely blaming it on that at least.
> It's 13 on 11 off, you guys think it would be a good idea to switch to 12/12 or should I just let it go as is? I'm assuming switching to 12/12 should be fine since it's not like I'm making the lights-on period longer, I figure if anything it'd be a little better to gradually switch light cycles, though I'm sure the ideal is NOT three whole weeks of 13/11


You could do either, leave them or flip them to 12/12, I don't think it's make a huge difference either way. I sometimes run them for 7-10 days at 14/10 to stretch and pre-flower (right now I have 2x 7 gal's at 14/10 for 8 days), then switch to 12/12 from there when they go into the main flower room. Haven't seen any issues doing that so not much different than what you're doing.


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## borbor (Apr 19, 2015)

added the extra hour of dark
Here's some pics
I just noticed this yesterday, and it's more pronounced today, starbud pistils are turning purple!
it's really hard to tell in these two pics, but I'm loving it!
  
starbud-
 
burmese kush-
 
fool's gold-
 
midnight kush-
 
brazil amazonia-
 
Blue kush auto-
 

I shouldn't have turned the flash on for the last few photos, I was trying to catch a good representation of midnight kush, really fat nugs so far, should be a good yield off of her


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## borbor (Apr 22, 2015)

I swear, I had no choice!
this branch was just flopping over on the blue kush, I really can't wait to sample her.
it's one of the lower branches


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## Mohican (Apr 22, 2015)

Sure it did!


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## GroErr (Apr 23, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Sure it did!


Funny how that happens to me the first time I grow a new strain or phenol


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## borbor (Apr 24, 2015)

Mohican said:


> Sure it did!





GroErr said:


> Funny how that happens to me the first time I grow a new strain or phenol


 
an additional bonus to cutting that branch- If it's smokeable tomorrow night, then the last time I bought weed is the last time I buy weed in 2015, methinks. who knows, it might even be the last time I buy weed period. 


group shot-

starbud-   
burmese kush- 
fool's gold- 
midnight kush- 
brazil amazonia- 
blue kush auto 
couple of hairs made it into that photo, oops!


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## bellcore (Apr 24, 2015)

Buds are looking sweet. I just upgraded from a 250w HID to the LEC 315 for the same reason. Never want to have to buy again and more to share with friends.


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## GroErr (Apr 24, 2015)

Nice, looking great in there, don't think you'll be buying much weed.

Don't think you and @bellcore (nice buy!) will be worrying about buying weed for a while


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## Mohican (Apr 25, 2015)

I always photoshop the hairs out. 

Who said that?!!


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## borbor (Apr 26, 2015)

I got a wonderful unexpected gift from a family member, she asked how many plants I could grow legally, asked why I don't start six more in veg, and when I said I'd need a veg tent, she ordered one! I'll throw the kessil and maybe some CFLs in to start. Waiting on the summer to order one or two of the new a51 lights, but when that happens I think one or two of the rw-75s should find a home in there.
it's a 2x4 tent, once that shows up I'll pop some beans. I'm thinking of the hog, colombian gold, and/or midnight kush.
And my little 1x1 tent can actually make itself useful! Males and drying. Seems to me since I have the extra ducting sitting here, I'm about two COBs and a 6" booster fan away from having a totally solid "never buy weed again and also give awesome christmas presents" perpetual setup. maybe a small carbon filter for drying as well.


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## borbor (Apr 26, 2015)

Raised the lights a day ago, seems that they're still gaining height.
starbud-
burmese kush- 
fool's gold- 
midnight kush- 
brazil amazonia- 
Blue kush auto-  two branches sideways similar to the one I chopped early-


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## borbor (Apr 28, 2015)

midnight kush definitely has a smell now, it's really weird, Like a cross between lavender and bag balm ointment. I was really hoping it'd be more like the blue kush, but whatever, big ass nug.
I'd say fool's gold and brazil amazonia smell light green and midnight kush smells like a light purple, if that synesthetic analysis makes any sense at all


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## borbor (May 1, 2015)

Got my 2x4 veg tent all set up, with a 6 inch booster fan and just the 36 watt kessil right now. Should be enough to get seeds to pop, over the weekend I'll definitely get more light for veg. shouldn't need much, I'm weighing a few options-
one of the high wattage cfls that comes with its own little crappy reflector, about $65 and comes with a 125 watt 6500k cfl
or a two bulb t5ho fixture, about $65 and bulbs included as well
or another 36 watt kessil
just for now, I don't really wanna spend more than $100 on grow lights until I build a new computer.

the ideal plan would be spend very little on making the lighting enough in the veg tent, so I can build my computer before the new a51 lights come out this summer, which I'll probably want to buy two of to replace the rw-75s in my flower tent, which will then go in the veg tent!

the ladies are doing well mostly. a few issues have been developing over the past week or so on burmese kush and starbud, it's not really bad on starbud, just a little blotching and yellowing on some lower leaves, not really bad just want to correct it, burmese kush has a lot of yellowing though, buds on both plants looking awesome however. starbud, as expected, has a ton of trichs for her age ") 

I think over the weekend I'll plant three of the hog from th seeds, two colombian gold from world of seeds, and my other brazil amazonia seed from WOS.

the hog seed I gave to my friend- he did 12/12 from seed with it under a 600 hps in a 5 gallon and it's taller than any of my plants, looks like it's gonna yield at least 6 ounces


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## borbor (May 2, 2015)

this finger hash rules


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## Mohican (May 3, 2015)

Just be careful with the Kessil and seedlings. It can fry them very quickly. I had to learn this the hard way! 

Although the fact that I was using an elevated rack to hold my rapid rooters and the tap roots were popping out of the bottom and drying out didn't help.


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## borbor (May 6, 2015)

Haven't even started any seeds, too scared of frying them with the kessil! Still thinking about a fluorescent solution. excited to do it though

Here's some current pics
group-

starbud is front middle with midnight kush behind her, front left is burmese kush and back left is fool's gold, on the right is brazil amazonia
Starbud (picture doesn't do the trichs justice)-

Burmese kush-

Fool's gold (smells my favorite!)-

midnight kush (surprisingly, smells my least favorite, menthol-ish)-

brazil amazonia-



Anybody have an opinion regarding a two foot two bulb t5ho light vs a 125 watt cfl with reflector? Both sound pretty good as a starter for veg, each has advantages and disadvantages, but I could find a use for either one after replacing my main veg light with LED down the line


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## borbor (May 8, 2015)

got some good news, and also running into some issues. They didn't happen overnight, it's just now they're significant enough I wanna post them. 
the good news is that they're all packing weight and starting to mature. Starbud is living up to its super frosty description. Starbud and midnight kush are starting to purple on the sugar leaves. midnight kush is really dense and a good producer, hope the smell improves. burmese kush is basically just a cola and 4-6 nugs on the side but I'm actually surprised with how much she's producing for just a 2 gallon smart pot. fool's gold looks great, and like it'll produce a good amount considering the shorter veg and no training. dense nugs on the fool's gold and midnight kush. Brazil amazonia seems odd, 75% sativa and it's definitely apparent in the nug structure and fan leaves, but the shortest plant in the tent. 
The bad news is just on starbud and the burmese kush. fool's gold has some yellow and red spots but it's not so bad, especially since we're at day 44 of 12/12 and the breeder says 55 days for flower, in fact, I should probably start flushing that one. Fool's gold has yellowing and brown spots, burmese kush mostly just the yellowing, I've plucked some really bad leaves off of both yesterday. 
group-
 
starbud-
  
burmese kush-
 
fool's gold-
 
midnight kush-
 
brazil amazonia-
 
brazil amazonia on the right, starbud front left midnight back left-
 
Problem on burmese kush-
 
problem on starbud-
 

I'm still thinking, pretty much barring some catastrophe, in four months I'm going to have a lot of high grade weed in a few weeks, despite these problems. I'd still like to improve it.


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## borbor (May 11, 2015)

Looks overall pretty good to me, though there's pretty much at least a small issue on every plant- starbud canoeing and yellowed lower leaves with brown spots, burmese kush yellowing and dying lower leaves (almost positive it's nitrogen def) and obviously the two gallon pot is a limiting factor on that one. fool's gold has some canoeing sugar leaves and some yellowing with red spots in the canopy, oddly the affected leaves are also turning a beautiful reddish purple, or maybe a purplish red. here's a pic of that- sides of some of her upper sugar leaves are purple at the edges as well. I got three plants going purple, if the fool's gold is legit than it's big bud x skunk, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense. I tried to check the min/max but had to reset my thermometer so I won't know til tomorrow what the night temps are. does anybody know what's going on with those leaves?
midnight kush has a couple of spots on her leaves and what appears to be "the claw" but still probably the healthiest. Just like the breeder's description-"she produces almighty rock hard resinous buds. She has a tendency to go a fantastic midnight purple colour in cold conditions."- she's doing that exactly! a lot of leaves are looking like the dark purple in her photo. I wonder if I got super lucky with the pheno, so next round will include all 3 remaining midnight kush beans. my next seed order will probably include some g13 labs again, since they described this one so perfectly
brazil amazonia has some red spots and dying crispy lower leaves, with slight yellowing, probably partially related to her proximity to the oscillating fan.

my last couple of waterings have been just straight water. I'm guessing some of these problems are ph related, I know every strain's different and it's not the best that I _usually_ water them with the same water though they're different strains, but on my first time, I'm learning a lot no matter what, I'm learning burmese kush likes a little more nitrogen at least, and that I probably should have kept giving veg nutes for a little longer into 12/12 than I did. I'm also learning that midnight kush seems to be pretty happy with the low end of recommended amounts on the biocanna line in every watering with an added 4ml/gal of general organics ca mg+. the ppm is usually around 700-750, I'm very precise when I mix water.
it's day 47 since the flip, it'll be 7 weeks on wednesday so I'm thinking some of these are gonna finish soon enough that I should start the flush anyway on some plants.

breeder's _advertised_ finishing times from attitude (with user submitted finishing times from seedfinder in parentheses)-
starbud-8 weeks (60 days)
burmese kush-7 1/2 weeks (60 days)
fool's gold-55 days (none submitted)
midnight kush- "medium" (65-75 days)
brazil amazonia- 75-90 days (95 days)

I think fool's gold is gonna go longer, but pretty much every pistil on midnight kush is orange, I highly doubt that she needs 3 more weeks 

I wonder...


group-
starbud-
burmese kush-
fool's gold-
midnight kush- 
brazil amazonia-


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## borbor (May 11, 2015)

midnight kush showing off for the macro camera


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## borbor (May 13, 2015)

Just put 9 seeds in rockwool under a 2 foot 2 bulb t5ho and the 36 watt purple kessil-
3 th seeds "the hog" regular
2 g13 labs midnight kush fem
2 world of seeds colombian gold reg
1 world of seeds brazil amazonia reg
1 top tao seeds autoflower, just because I'm not gonna do anything else with it, can just leave it on the side in the veg tent for fun and maybe an extra ounce.

group of flowers-

starbud flowers-

burmese kush-

fool's gold-

midnight kush-

brazil amazonia-


that midnight kush is starting to get there, I swear!


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## GroErr (May 14, 2015)

Looking great in there @borbor  I've found these lights take a few days off published breeder times, always finish faster than my LED's by a few days, not long to go for some of the earlier finishing strains. Not sure which strains have those yellowing leaves but could be fading if they're far enough in, does look like they're lacking nitrogen. Otherwise some nice looking bud coming up


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## borbor (May 15, 2015)

Thanks @GroErr! I've read you and others say these lights tend to finish plants a little faster, I always kind of assumed it was "faster than hps" rather than "faster than advertised" since I figure most finishing times are probably a bit shorter in general than what should be expected. I guess it might not be all marketing! 

Getting really close with the midnight kush, I'm always tempted, but I wanna make sure she gets a good flush, and wanna see if the lower nugs will mature any more, there's less of the purpling and more white pistils farther down. 

a lot of the seeds are pushing the top of the rockwool, but no "seedlings" yet.


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## GroErr (May 16, 2015)

I run a JTR that is advertised as an 8 week strain but typically pull it around 52-54 days under CMH and will go 56-58 under LED's. Pheno's can vary but typically I'm pulling them within or shorter than the advertised finish time.


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## borbor (May 16, 2015)

Chopping in two hours when the lights come on! I'm sure she should be okay to chop, running out of the blue kush! Just realized "crap! I've been smoking nothing but blunts!" I just weighed what I have left, 5.5 grams, which fills the jar about 25%, when the initial harvest filled up two jars when it was still pretty wet, so if I had to make a guess at the autoflower's yield I'd say 30-35 grams, chopped early. I don't regret it, the main event is just beginning!

can't wait to see the tent once there's only 4 plants in there, One of the lessons I learned on this first round is what it means to overcrowd the area. my new rule is gonna be one plant per square foot, always in 7 gallon pots. 

Got some seedlings! two of the hog from th seeds are bona fide seedlings with cotyledons. most of the others are pushing the top of the rockwool. they're under 48 watts of t5ho and the 36 watt blurple kessil.


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## borbor (May 19, 2015)

got a little spooked today and moved some stuff around
the midnight kush doesn't seem to be drying very fast, and temps have been cold around here, my room's definitely the coldest in the house. I was worried they wouldn't do well crammed together in my tiny 16"x16"x48" tent, so I had them trade spots with the seedlings. No use having seedlings if it molds every time you try to harvest! The fan in that tent doesn't do much either, like 67 cfm or something.

so now the midnight kush is in the 2x4 tent to dry, the only downside is that I can't fit the t5 fixture in the smaller tent so I'm just using the kessil on the seeds right now. I'll definitely get something better figured out before I get the next plant cut down.


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## borbor (May 20, 2015)

Some pics-day 55 of 12/12, tomorrow is 8 weeks!
Midnight kush-
  
flower tent-
 
starbud-
 
burmese kush
 
Fool's gold-
 
Brazil amazonia-
 
seedlings-
 
Looks like brazil amazonia's long flower time is gonna pay off in yield.
I've been wondering if my temps might be too cold, my hygrometer's min/max says I'm swinging between a low of 59° F and a high of 85°.


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## GroErr (May 20, 2015)

Some nice looking bud in there borbor, Cheers!


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## Mohican (May 20, 2015)

Those pics are High Times worthy. You should send them in!


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## borbor (May 21, 2015)

Thanks man!
Just weighed midnight kush, 48 grams!


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## borbor (May 24, 2015)

Day 60. I'll cry if starbud doesn't successfully reveg after harvest.


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## borbor (May 24, 2015)

cell phone pics-
group-
starbud- 
burmese kush- 
fool's gold-  
brazil amazonia (HUGE nugs!)-


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## Mohican (May 25, 2015)

It all looks so perfect! Great job!   

How do they smell?


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## GroErr (May 25, 2015)

Cheers borbor, looks like you have a nice harvest coming up


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## borbor (May 27, 2015)

Thanks!
The starbud actually doesn't smell much, a hint of lavender maybe. Fool's gold is the winner for smell, really fruity. Burmese kush smells like a strong funk, and brazil amazonia is pretty lemony.

thinking fool's gold might be comin' down on saturday or sunday. Also...thinking about getting another LEC


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## borbor (May 31, 2015)

Took down fool's gold last night. A little impatient, maybe, but I'll keep the three remaining for a little while. Burmese kush is next in line, maybe this week, but no rush


Also, got the 3x3 tent back that I lent to a friend, and set it up as my new veg tent, and made the 2x4 tent my drying tent. I decided to go cheap for now rather than saving for another couple of weeks for another lec, so I ordered a 4 bulb two foot t5 fixture, so I'll have 6 24 watt t5ho bulbs in my veg tent for now. today the kessil overheated for the second time that I've noticed. definitely not buying any more of those. Looking into a diy cob idea to finish the veg tent.

also ordered a new microscope, this one- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QF0A1Y?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages01
so soon I'll probably have some great pics of starbud's trichs for you all!

fool's gold last seen alive-
 

Starbud-   
burmese kush-  
brazil amazonia-


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## borbor (May 31, 2015)

Thought these two pictures do a decent job illustrating brazil amazonia's size, shorter than starbud, but compare the sizes of the nugs!
 
and a nice starbud shot


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## borbor (Jun 3, 2015)

damn cat hairs 

group- 
starbud-  
brazil amazonia-
burmese kush (next to get chopped)-


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## Mohican (Jun 3, 2015)

Looking beautiful!

You can photoshop the hairs out


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## borbor (Jun 4, 2015)

I''ll have to learn how


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## Mohican (Jun 5, 2015)

It is easy. What photo app do you use?
I use Corel Paintshop Pro. I use the clone brush and just clone nearby areas and paint over the hair or bug.


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## borbor (Jun 5, 2015)

Hahaha, photo manipulation has got to be the most popular skill that I haven't tried yet. I usually just upload the photos straight from the phone or camera. 

I've used GIMP a little bit though, back in my linux experimentation days, so maybe I'll try that or see if I can find a torrent for corel.

this would be day 72 of flower-
group- 
starbud- 
burmese- 
brazil amazonia-  

Getting excited for brazil amazonia! Looks huge, smells nice (and unique!), pistils are just starting to turn on her.

Here's the veg tent- 
Check this plant out! It's "micron auto tao" from top tao seeds, which I've never really heard of, I had low expectations, but I'm also hoping for a female (first of all, autoflower pollen sounds worthless to me...), It's got a bonus node, I hope it's a triploid, but also, see the branch beginning, about a half inch ABOVE its fan leaf? WTF?


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## borbor (Jun 7, 2015)

finished trimming and jarred up the fool's gold, got 43 grams. I was pretty aggressive with throwing some popcorn in the trim though. almost surprised it was so close to the midnight kush weight, because it was only in a 5 gallon rather than a 7 gallon and vegged for about 3 weeks fewer.

so with those two plants so far I'm at 91 grams, I didn't weigh the autoflower but if I estimate 28 grams, which is probably about what it was, then it's about 119 grams. 

I'll probably chop burmese kush tomorrow, I might have tonight but I was a little busy. A few white pistils still but the trichs are about 30% amber. not expecting much off of her, her pot is way too tiny. 

hoping starbud and brazil amazonia pack on the weight to get me a good final gpw number to report.  

of course, it's not gonna be a great number based on the start I've had, I'd need a miracle, but no worries, I got a number to beat next round, and looks like I might walk out of my first run with a half pound (that I will have already mostly smoked!)

really glad I have those plants in veg already. cuts down on the boring part after I'm done with this run! and the round after that will have been on 18/6 for quite a while!


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## Mohican (Jun 8, 2015)

Burmese looks so Burmese!

The colors and shape are so cool!


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## GroErr (Jun 8, 2015)

Hey borbor, nice, it's not all about the numbers, a couple of strains I run like the Harlequin and Blue Pyramid I'm lucky to get 7-8 zips under one 315w, but I don't care, they're dank strains/phenos, not the greatest producers but worth the quality/variety. Now that DIY Blue Ripper (Jack The Ripper x Blueberry) I can't grow enough of it so I'm dedicating a few 7gal plants to that strain next, nice thing with that strain is it's fire, smells/tastes great and produces at 1 zip per gallon of soil


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## borbor (Jun 11, 2015)

Thanks! Looking forward to the next round, I'm always thinking about the veg tent and what's gonna be next. Right now I'm thinking either 4 hog clones of two phenos, 4 hog clones of one pheno, two hog clones of one pheno and two colombian gold clones of one pheno, or one of each hog pheno and one colombian gold, no matter what it'll be 4 plants in 7 gallon pots.

just finished jarring the burmese kush, 30 grams, looks like great smoke actually, frostier than the fool's gold
 


so I'm at 149 so far...


still very strongly considering another LEC, but I'm curious about what some of you would do with it.
I could fit it in the flower tent, side by side with the other LEC if I took out the LEDs and put them in the veg tent
or I could put it in my veg tent, and put the fluoros from there into my flower tent for even more side lighting

would two LECs just be too much light for a 4x4 tent?

I'll have the money for another light in about 10 days.

or maybe I should wait a while for a51's fancy new cob fixtures?

also, I noticed on the sun system website they started making the lights with a remote ballast, but only in 208-240v and 277v. 
would I be pulling the same amperage if I used a step up converter to run that on 120v?


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## borbor (Jun 11, 2015)

set phasers to stun!

  

man, brazil amazonia there is really putting on weight.

but that starbud...mmmm I'm so excited. I got a regular 40x microscope today, trichs are much easier for me to view now, and they're lookin' nice. about half clear half cloudy.

by the way, this whole experience has been the most fun I've had in years.


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## GroErr (Jun 12, 2015)

borbor said:


> Thanks! Looking forward to the next round, I'm always thinking about the veg tent and what's gonna be next. Right now I'm thinking either 4 hog clones of two phenos, 4 hog clones of one pheno, two hog clones of one pheno and two colombian gold clones of one pheno, or one of each hog pheno and one colombian gold, no matter what it'll be 4 plants in 7 gallon pots.
> 
> just finished jarring the burmese kush, 30 grams, looks like great smoke actually, frostier than the fool's gold
> 
> ...


Looking good, nice to have to even worry about choosing which strains/phenos to flower 

imo 2x LEC's would be overkill in that space, with summer coming too you'd probably have a bit of a time controlling temps. They're cool but still produce some heat, besides imo it would be wasting a lot of light. For reference, the best output so far in weight for me under 1x 315w LEC has been from a 3.5 x 3.5 footprint.
I think you're referring to those commercial fixtures, they only come in the higher voltages. If you go by the 120v fixtures which include the step down converter to run @120v, adding the step down converter is going to pull ~40w more and double the amperage.


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## Mohican (Jun 12, 2015)

Looks like they are set to kill!


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## borbor (Jun 12, 2015)

@GroErr cool, exactly what I wanted to know!

I guess now I'll debate between cmh and led for the veg tent

off to do more DIY LED research!


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## Mohican (Jun 12, 2015)

LED is an amazing veg lite!


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## GroErr (Jun 13, 2015)

borbor said:


> @GroErr cool, exactly what I wanted to know!
> 
> I guess now I'll debate between cmh and led for the veg tent
> 
> off to do more DIY LED research!


Haven't tried the CMH for vegging but they do make that 4200k bulb and I'm sure they'd do quite well for veg. But might be overkill price-wise for vegging. I've used the cheap green reflector panels that TopLED sells (they're manufactured by LG) for clones, seeds and veg for a couple of years now with no issues. If anything I have to slow them down to keep my perpetual cycles in check. DIY with 4k/5k would work well. Pretty well any light will veg well though. The main advantage with using the LEC's for veg would be the flexibility to swap the bulb for the 3100k and flower if you want or need it. Some would say you could flower just as well with the 4200k CMH. That's a key difference and advantage (if you want flexibility) over the cheap Chinese LED's, I wouldn't flower with those Chinese LED's, been there/done that and they suck imo. You could say the LEC's have an advantage over DIY LED's for veg in that if you want to maximize your veg lights with DIY, you'd probably want to go into 4/5k spectrum for more blues. 4/5k isn't the greatest for flowering and it's more difficult to swap out the COBs than swapping a CMH bulb in the LEC's. Some food for thought as you research your options...


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## Mohican (Jun 13, 2015)

Scottyballs ran CMH the whole way through and got some amazing rock hard buds.

Greengenes707 has just built an LED that is going to do the same thing.


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## borbor (Jun 14, 2015)

I think starbud might be starting to foxtail, seems like there's been some new pistils growing
think I should chop? trichs seem about 10-20% amber

    

brazil amazonia's looking crazy, the branch next to the fan is turning color way quicker than the rest, is that normal?


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## GroErr (Jun 14, 2015)

borbor said:


> I think starbud might be starting to foxtail, seems like there's been some new pistils growing
> think I should chop? trichs seem about 10-20% amber
> 
> brazil amazonia's looking crazy, the branch next to the fan is turning color way quicker than the rest, is that normal?


You'll have to judge the chop but she's looking nice and ready. I have a JTR pheno that continues throwing out new pistils to the end, if I waited for all of them to turn it would never finish!


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## Mohican (Jun 14, 2015)

If you keep feeding them N they will keep throwing out new hairs forever and foxtail six inches long!

When I flip I just start feeding P and K and let them fade to the finish.


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## borbor (Jun 16, 2015)

cut starbud last night, it was a lot of work, but it looks like a lot more than it did on the plant!
left some lower nugs on her and put her in the veg tent., it's really crowded in there, and just the one lonely plant in flower. Must mean I'll be switching that up soon! I think after brazil amazonia gets chopped I'll move some vegging plants in there and switch that tent to 18/6.


right before chop-
  

hanging in a 2x4 (that's a kessil h150 for scale)

   

veg tent


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## GroErr (Jun 16, 2015)

Great colours on that starbud, nice


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## borbor (Jun 21, 2015)

starbud weighs in at a massive 125 g!


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## borbor (Jun 22, 2015)

GroErr said:


> Haven't tried the CMH for vegging but they do make that 4200k bulb and I'm sure they'd do quite well for veg...


I used the 4200k bulb for veg on these ladies, seemed to work very well, much better than these t5s, and the distance is nice too, the HOG seeds in particular are getting serious height and almost touching the t5s sometimes

With that said, I should add the competition is over. until now it's been hard to decide what the immediate veg lamp replacement would be, but I see that a51 is finally out of stock on the rw-150s, which was the big competitor, seems like tuesday, wednesday, or thursday I'm buying another LEC 315.


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## bellcore (Jun 22, 2015)

Bonbor, I saw you were looking at an additional LEC 315 and I just wanted to point out they have a new model with a remote ballast that lists for $10 cheaper than the all in one.
https://www.sunlightsupply.com/shop/bycategory/lec-lep-led/sun-system-lec-315-remote-fixture

My first harvest with a LEC 315 isn't going to be as nice as yours but should still be good>Provision Purple Widow and some Nirvana freebies. That Startbud is tops!.


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## borbor (Jun 22, 2015)

bellcore said:


> Bonbor, I saw you were looking at an additional LEC 315 and I just wanted to point out they have a new model with a remote ballast that lists for $10 cheaper than the all in one.
> https://www.sunlightsupply.com/shop/bycategory/lec-lep-led/sun-system-lec-315-remote-fixture
> 
> My first harvest with a LEC 315 isn't going to be as nice as yours but should still be good>Provision Purple Widow and some Nirvana freebies. That Startbud is tops!.


but not in 120volt


----------



## GroErr (Jun 22, 2015)

borbor said:


> I used the 4200k bulb for veg on these ladies, seemed to work very well, much better than these t5s, and the distance is nice too, the HOG seeds in particular are getting serious height and almost touching the t5s sometimes
> 
> With that said, I should add the competition is over. until now it's been hard to decide what the immediate veg lamp replacement would be, but I see that a51 is finally out of stock on the rw-150s, which was the big competitor, seems like tuesday, wednesday, or thursday I'm buying another LEC 315.


Nice haul on that starbud, I think you'll find that whatever strain you flower with these LEC's, you'll get the most out of it. Not a bad thing having the LEC's for veg, if I had a bigger veg room I'd go for it and they can cover a large area in veg if you have the room height. Cheers and enjoy some of that fine looking smoke!


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## borbor (Jun 22, 2015)

brazil amazonia's getting really fat, day 89 (yeah really):

buying another LEC tomorrow no question, they're just begging for light... and space,

I can't wait for brazil to be done, just so I can throw that tent on 18/6 for a while to split the plants between both tents and give em some space. I would just put some of those into flower, but Burmese kush taught me a lesson I won't soon forget- you gotta transplant before flower, at least into something bigger than 2 gal, and sometime last week I transplanted them into 1 gallons. I can't quite remember how long ago, could have been over a week, working 6 days a week time has just been flying by. 
In fact, I just looked back in the journal, these vegging plants are 36-37 days old! definitely need more light.


----------



## borbor (Jun 23, 2015)

no turning back now!

They obviously love it


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## GroErr (Jun 23, 2015)

Nice, looks like great coverage in there


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## borbor (Jun 24, 2015)

yup, probably overkill for veg but I'm planning to expand the setup pretty soon, keeping the 2x4 drying tent and probably adding a 5x5 gorilla tent, so I'll use the 4x4 in veg. That'll all probably after this journal is finished, it can't possibly take too much longer! I'm at day 90 in the flower tent


also, just raised the light after taking that pic, I put it as high as I could, since it'd probably be fine even higher up. Also a little worried that I might run into heat issues in there, since instead of the nice 6-inch vortex s-line in the 4x4 the veg tent just has a fairly cheap six inch hydrofarm booster fan, there's a clip on fan about ballast level pointed at the ballast. 

Nice to have the 4200k bulb for veg, so an added bonus of the new fixture is that it came with an extra flowering bulb! 

It's annoying that I haven't really been able to find an oscillating fan on a stand that doesn't take up a ton of space. I can't drill through the walls, so with a fan on the floor and starbud trying to reveg in a 7 gallon pot it's pretty crowded. Can anyone recommend a good oscillating fan that doesn't take up too much space?


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## GroErr (Jun 24, 2015)

borbor said:


> yup, probably overkill for veg but I'm planning to expand the setup pretty soon, keeping the 2x4 drying tent and probably adding a 5x5 gorilla tent, so I'll use the 4x4 in veg. That'll all probably after this journal is finished, it can't possibly take too much longer! I'm at day 90 in the flower tent
> 
> 
> also, just raised the light after taking that pic, I put it as high as I could, since it'd probably be fine even higher up. Also a little worried that I might run into heat issues in there, since instead of the nice 6-inch vortex s-line in the 4x4 the veg tent just has a fairly cheap six inch hydrofarm booster fan, there's a clip on fan about ballast level pointed at the ballast.
> ...


I took the base off one of my oscillating fans and mounted it in a flag pole to get it off the floor which created some floor space. At the other end of the room I couldn't do that or it would be in the way of the entrance so I put one of those tall/thin floor models which doesn't take much space, I think it's a Sunbeam.


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## borbor (Jun 24, 2015)

Awwww balls.
Or I guess I should say awwwww nanners.
Should I just let her finish anyway? be a shame to lose what looks like a giant yield, or cut it way early. Maybe pluck the nanners?I pulled a few to see if they were definitely nanners since I'm noob at that, and sure enough, got some pollen on my finger  gotta say I've suspected it for a while, I did kind of neglect this plant as far as nutes and I think she was underwatered for a while when the tent was crowded, and the tent being that crowded even led to some of her bottom branches kind of dying at the tips, I cut a couple off in mid flower

day 91


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## fellowfelon (Jun 24, 2015)

borbor said:


> Awwww balls.
> Or I guess I should say awwwww nanners.
> Should I just let her finish anyway? be a shame to lose what looks like a giant yield, or cut it way early. Maybe pluck the nanners?I pulled a few to see if they were definitely nanners since I'm noob at that, and sure enough, got some pollen on my finger  gotta say I've suspected it for a while, I did kind of neglect this plant as far as nutes and I think she was underwatered for a while when the tent was crowded, and the tent being that crowded even led to some of her bottom branches kind of dying at the tips, I cut a couple off in mid flower
> 
> day 91


I once had a grow where a girl started growing a whole bunch of penises. I considered prematurely terminating her, but in the end decided against it. I harvested everybody at the ripe time, and ended up with maybe one single seed in the finished product. In hindsight it seemed insane that I had even considered killing the girl. She really wasn't a problem at all, and was a great yielder. Today I am totally fine with chicks with dicks, and I think this great fear of some seeds in your bud is overstated anyway.


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## Mohican (Jun 25, 2015)

She is still very beautiful. I totally agree with Fellow's statement. 



Cheers,
Mo


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## borbor (Jul 8, 2015)

sup RIU, it's been a while! 
actually, I've been logging in every day, but just lurking. 
I'm working way too damn much, and just have a shitstorm of stuff going on, I haven't been able to pay the attention I want to my plants. 
as soon as brazil amazonia is dry, I'll pop back in with pics, a final weight, and a smoke report and be done with this journal and probably won't start another one for a while.


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## GroErr (Jul 8, 2015)

borbor said:


> sup RIU, it's been a while!
> actually, I've been logging in every day, but just lurking.
> I'm working way too damn much, and just have a shitstorm of stuff going on, I haven't been able to pay the attention I want to my plants.
> as soon as brazil amazonia is dry, I'll pop back in with pics, a final weight, and a smoke report and be done with this journal and probably won't start another one for a while.


Hey, much the same here, sometimes I have to back off on posts, just went through a couple of crazy months myself. Take care of your shit offline and take care of the plants #1  Cheers, pop in when you can.


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## Mohican (Jul 9, 2015)

I went throught the same thing. Now I am unemployed and starting a seed company!



Cheers,
Mo


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## borbor (Jul 20, 2015)

God life has been BUSY, didn't even weigh brazil amazonia, didn't even jar it all up when I was trying to, I just didn't have the time, 

my hog and Colombian are both male, at least the two I put into 12/12. Disappointing find, so there's just a midnight kush in 12/12 now.

I've decided that starting as soon as they ship, I'm gonna be using my 4x4 gorilla for veg, and setting up a 5x5 gorrilla (not the lite line) for flower. 

Starbud revegged like a champ, thank god. almost regretting giving samples of starbud to all my friends, since now I have to explain every day that I don't sell weed.

By the way, I was at way to grow and saw this insane piece of equipment on my way out, I had to stop and get in a conversation with a staff member. It was two LEC reflectors in one fixture side by side with a socket between them for a DE HPS. The guy at WTG said it was called the "growbeast," it's not in their inventory yet, and I couldn't even find it online, he said it was from sunlight supply and wtg was the first to get them. Looked awesome, it was about 3 1/2 - 4 feet long, built in ballasts for the cmh lamps, but of course you'd have to get your own DE HPS ballast and bulb. I gotta say the cmh reflectors didn't look as great as on my individual fixtures (less mirror-like, more like traditional materials.) Regardless, looked like an awesome product, maybe in my future if I can move up to a 5x9! 
You heard it here first!

By the way, I'm ready for this thread to move to "completed"


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## borbor (Jul 27, 2015)

Here's Starbud revegged:


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## borbor (Sep 2, 2015)

Bonus- starbud going back into flower on the right side.
the hog and midnight kush, left and back middle respectively, aren't anything special. The midnight kush pheno is better smelling than the first one I grew, but a lower yield, even taking into consideration the fact that it was a smaller, less well-taken-care-of plant in veg and has flowered on the side of the tent under the vegging cmh bulb (half experiment, half saving the new flowering bulb for starbud!)
hog- 
midnight kush #2-


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## Sexologist420 (Sep 4, 2015)

Great run bud. Thank you for sharing and good luck on future endeavours.


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## Waterfall Phil (Apr 7, 2017)

@borber I know this is an old thread but im just checkin out your grow journal. Hey just trying to spread a little of my knowledge to ya..You dont need to treat seedlings like clones, they don't need high humidity and they dont need high heat. Maybe not this go, but eventually what you're doing can cause problems. Just a heads up. Almost everybody over waters a time or two, so be on the look out lol


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## borbor (Apr 29, 2018)

This thread gives me the best nostalgia boner.


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