# Nirvana Bubblelicious Waterfarm Scrog in a Secret Jardin Tent 600 Watts



## Serapis (Dec 24, 2010)

*In the beginning....*

..... God created seed.....


Right before the 600 watt metal halide bulb was invented.

*Discussions for this journal are taking place at this discussion thread.....
*https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journal-discussion/395231-nirvana-bubblelicious-waterfarm-scrog-secret.html#post5085693 <<-- LINK

The thread that started it all!! https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/344359-pineapple-express-g13-labs-seed.html <--LINK


High everyone. Thanks for dropping in. This is my third indoor grow. My first two were successful, in soil. I am still working on the same 10 seeds I originally had. I have two left for a later grow. I have some Barney's Farm Tangerine Dream on the way for my next grow. 

This is my first time growing hydroponically. I had followed a thread by Scottyballz that convinced me that soil was for beginners. Actually, the General Hydroponics Water Farm can be easily used by beginners. Once you get a feel for the plant's needs, the rest is easy.

Let's take a look at some of the components of this grow....

*Strain:*

*Nirvana's Bubblelicious:*

Bubblelicious was developed in the Midwest, U.S.A., then brought to the Netherlands in the 1990s to be further refined. Its plants grow vigorously and finish flowering in about 8 weeks. Bubblelicious is highly resinous and extra sweet. Certain phenotypes will actually display a distinct pink bubblegum scent and flavour. This strain of cannabis is also very suitable for medical marijuana users

http://www.nirvanashop.com/us/bubblelicious-feminized-5-seeds.html

*GH Waterfarm:*

WATERFARM®
Drip Hydroponic System

Our 
best selling hydroponic module, the WaterFarm is built with high-impact plastic 
to assure a long service life. The WaterFarm unique square design allows growers 
to closely pack WaterFarm units to create large, high-density installations. The 
WaterFarm will grow small, medium, and large plants. With its large water 
capacity and low water requirements, the WaterFarm is simple and efficient. 
Offering the features of larger systems at a lower cost without sacrificing 
quality or performance, the WaterFarm is seen as one of our very best buys.


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## mane2008 (Dec 25, 2010)

Pics soon? sounds like a plan with that waterfarm, cant wait


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## Serapis (Dec 25, 2010)

mane2008 said:


> Pics soon? sounds like a plan with that waterfarm, cant wait


LOL, I meant to reserve second spot for the beginning pics
... No worries...

The one pic of jars is my last harvest. Not bad, but it could be a lot more. That was 5 plants. I'm showing the pic, cause this grow will be 2 plants and a 4' x 4' screen grow, or scrog.

The remaining pics show very early stage and today, before going into the tent. I've included one of the tent as well. Tomorrow when the lights are on, I'll get some new pics showing the screen in place and how I fastened it inside the tent.


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## Rongway (Dec 25, 2010)

I've been using waterfarms for a few years they are great! Have you modified it yet?


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## Serapis (Dec 25, 2010)

Yes to the modification. I did not add an airstone, the water gets all of the oxygen it can hold from the drip ring and the hydroton surface area. All holes for the upper section were drilled out and opened up and some new holes added.


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## Serapis (Dec 25, 2010)

*Pictures:*

I just took some shots to share. The ones of the dry net were just taken from my veg/nursery, closet. The 4' t-8 6500k flouros are hanging down low and above them I hung the dry net. I usually dry in a spare room closet, however I have a guest in for the Holidays and to keep the odor down, I'm using my converted nursery. That is why you see a mom plant in soil, included in the pictures, up front. She is fixing to get a trans-plant and major toppage.


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## Serapis (Dec 31, 2010)

*NEW PICTURES:

*Weekly Update

PH 5.8
ppm 1150

Babylicious, the bigger of the two plants, finally had a ph swing, for the south. The PH this morning was 5.1, a big drop from it's previously stable 5.8. This new drop in PH lets me know that the plant wants a higher concentration of nutrients. I'm taking her to 1400 ppm. That is for maximum growth. She is branching out nicely after the topping. I'm seeing many branches with new growth tips. At her current rate, she'll easily take up to 2/3's of the screen. 

I'm hoping runt catches up fairly quickly. Runt was a second attempt to germinate a seed in a rapid rooter. The seed germinated upside down, sending the tap root into the air. Rather that watch mother nature correct her mistake, I took action. After all, I had just lost a week on the first failed seedling, and I didn't want my second plant to be even further behind. I carefully removed the plant from the rapid rooter. Sure enough, the cotyledon leaves were where the tap root should have been. I carefully placed the tap root down into the hydroton, and I used the bottom of a clear soda 2 liter container as a dome for the first few days. Amazingly, the plant took off and grew. I love the waterfarm! I cannot say enough about it.

Here are the pics... notice that Babylicious is near the screen and I'll get to start training her very soon. At this rate, I predict harvest will be the 3rd or 4th week of March. I will veg for up to 30 days IF needed. I'm thinking though I can fill the screen in about 20 more days. I'll flip the light cycle to flower and change bulbs when about 80% of the screen is covered. The last 20% will easily fill in the first week of 12/12.


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## drgreentm (Jan 1, 2011)

excellent idea on the drying technique i got the same little net things didnt even think about using them going to on the next harvest in a week. thanks a bunch +rep nice grow to keep it up


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## Crystal Toy (Jan 2, 2011)

Serapis said:


> *NEW PICTURES:*
> 
> Weekly Update
> 
> ...


 
SERAPIS - How old are they that you're giving them high ppm ( 1150 ). take it you're still in veg? how many weeks. Thanks, sweet grow, +rep, gonna follow.


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## Serapis (Jan 2, 2011)

Crystal Toy said:


> SERAPIS - How old are they that you're giving them high ppm ( 1150 ). take it you're still in veg? how many weeks. Thanks, sweet grow, +rep, gonna follow.




Babylicious was germed on 11/17/2010. She would be bigger, but was raised for the first 5 weeks under flouros, as the tent was being used to flower my soil grow. The second plant is about 2 weeks behind. The first seed was a no show, and the second seed was tap root up. I was able to extract the seedling and pot it in a water farm. It took off after a few days under a two liter dome. 

I'm at 1100 ppm because I watch what the PH is telling me. If my PH is 5.8 one day and the water is at 900 ppm, the following day, if my PH has dropped, it indicates the plant is taking in more nutrients than water, and could use more nutrients. If the PH raises a bit, I back off the nutes and just add water. Following this method, my current ppm is at 1150 ish. For the first few weeks of flower, I expect it to require more nutrients than I have been giving. I'm thinking about using the Fox Farm solubles, as I already have them from a previous grow. I was going to use just the Flora Nova Bloom for the entire grow, but I'm tempted to push the buds. My last grow, I skipped the solubles and I can tell the difference in bud quality and bag appeal.

I am still in veg. I'm not counting weeks as the time under the flouros was five weeks, but the growth is about only 2 weeks, compared with a MH bulb. I'm going to cut (2) 4" squares out of screen near middle, so I can reach underneath and work the plants towards the rear of the tent. Once the screen is about 80% complete, I'll flip the lights and change the bulb to an HPS. (new bulb, as I want to get max results on this grow to set my own standard) I need to get out of the habit of replacing bulbs between grows. I now have two sets of bulbs, partially used, back in their boxes. I guess they'll be back ups.

The method I am copying was done on RIU and the guy got 16 ounces, dry. I was very impressed. His space was a bit smaller than mine and he used only one water farm. He grew Pineapple Express. I'm growing Bubblelicious, another indica blend that grows fairly well. The first time I grew it, some of the buds were about 18" and ended up developing mold because they were to thick to dry out. I now have a designated drying area to prevent that from happening again. My old grow closet is still ventilated, so I'll use it.


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## Serapis (Jan 3, 2011)

Feel free to comment in this thread if you are reading along and have reached this post. It seemed like a good idea at the time to keep comments in another thread, but it no longer does. Feel free to question, comment, or share your similar grow. 

This is my first hydro grow and only my second grow with 600 watt MH/HPS. I have high expectations for this grow. I'll get a pic or two on the next update of the thickness of the stalk. It is unreal.... It's easily several inches in diameter. I can imagine that the roots are well established and a couple feet long at tap. By topping, and then scroging the plant through vegetation, my goal is to fill the screen with growing tips while keeping them all at the same height. When I'm near 80% filled, I'll change over to HPS and flip to 12/12 to begin flowering. The initial stretch spurt will hit all of the tops, creating beautiful stems upon which to build colas in the following weeks.

Feel free to hang out, subscribe, and watch this grow along as it happens.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 3, 2011)

Looking good I will make sure to stop in from time to time, My next grow im going Reserva Privada HeadBand AKA Sour Kush along side Barneys Farm Red Deisil.


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## bongmarley2009 (Jan 4, 2011)

Looking good. I'm subscribing to this thread for sure. Scotty's method is really fail proof. My buddy was supposed to harvest our power kush yesterday. I'm at home for break, so I don't get to join in on the fun this time although our first harvest was 5 plants in soil and that was a bitch. Yielded 5.14oz. If we yield more than 5oz off 1 plant under a 400w MH/HPS, then hellssss yes.

Oh btw, we topped the plant when it hit the screen. And then he had to go away for 3 days and his dad didn't weave it properly so we didn't end up with an even SCROG. And don't worry if the pH jumps out of the recommended range during veg. When you start using more and more nutes, the buffers will work. For us it was at about 900-1000ppm.


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## Crystal Toy (Jan 4, 2011)

Serapis said:


> Babylicious was germed on 11/17/2010. She would be bigger, but was raised for the first 5 weeks under flouros, as the tent was being used to flower my soil grow. The second plant is about 2 weeks behind. The first seed was a no show, and the second seed was tap root up. I was able to extract the seedling and pot it in a water farm. It took off after a few days under a two liter dome.
> 
> I'm at 1100 ppm because I watch what the PH is telling me. If my PH is 5.8 one day and the water is at 900 ppm, the following day, if my PH has dropped, it indicates the plant is taking in more nutrients than water, and could use more nutrients. If the PH raises a bit, I back off the nutes and just add water. Following this method, my current ppm is at 1150 ish. For the first few weeks of flower, I expect it to require more nutrients than I have been giving. I'm thinking about using the Fox Farm solubles, as I already have them from a previous grow. I was going to use just the Flora Nova Bloom for the entire grow, but I'm tempted to push the buds. My last grow, I skipped the solubles and I can tell the difference in bud quality and bag appeal.
> 
> ...



Thanks Serapis, looking really good, gonna keep an eye on you lol +rep, i too am inspired by SCOTTYBALLS 1 waterfarm + 1 plant = almost 16 ounce. trying it out on a Jamaican bad seed, unreal the rate of growth.i'd be very happy to get even 5-8 ounces. good luck. any updates?


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## Serapis (Jan 4, 2011)

bongmarley2009 said:


> Oh btw, we topped the plant when it hit the screen. And then he had to go away for 3 days and his dad didn't weave it properly so we didn't end up with an even SCROG. And don't worry if the pH jumps out of the recommended range during veg. When you start using more and more nutes, the buffers will work. For us it was at about 900-1000ppm.


I found that with NO plant in a working water farm, the PH is impossible to stabilize. I don't understand any scientific reasoning for that fact, but test runs with no plant are useless. LOL  

My PH is currently stable, however Babylicious tends to stay at around 5.6 while her sister maintains a perfect 5.8, day after day. The water farm, combined with Flora Nova Bloom nutrients is near fool proof. I learned the basics on soil, the only new thing to me was PPM, but once you get the meter and understand how PH and PPM interact, anyone could do this. It is that easy.



Crystal Toy said:


> Thanks Serapis, looking really good, gonna keep an eye on you lol +rep, i too am inspired by SCOTTYBALLS 1 waterfarm + 1 plant = almost 16 ounce. trying it out on a Jamaican bad seed, unreal the rate of growth.i'd be very happy to get even 5-8 ounces. good luck. any updates?


Good luck with your Jamaican!!  That sounds scrumptious! The rate of growth on my plants has been phenomenal as well. I hope to bust over 1.5 pounds, dry. I'm going to take 3 days to harvest, just so I don't go insane while trimming bud. I want it to be a fun time with my product, not neck straining stress and sore fingers. The most I have trimmed in one sitting ended up being about 10 ounces once it was dry. That was pure murder by myself. I used to never think I could use a trimming aid, but I'm considering now.

As for updates, I'll pic update again this weekend. I'll also begin to clean up the lower areas of the plants, removing what obviously will never grow to the screen. 

I will share some thoughts however on this grow, as I have just partaken in some of my last grow and I suddenly feel euphoric and chatty, all at the same time. 

Flora Nova Bloom is the bomb. The buffers work great, it has EVERYTHING the plant needs for basic growing. I however, never settle for the basics.
I know that ScottyBallz laid out a great case for not mucking with the Lucas Formula for hydroponic growing in his grow journal, and I encourage everyone
interested in going to hydroponic for the first time to follow it. However, I'm going to change it up a bit, kind of like Emeril's trick of kicking it up a notch.

I have been adding about 10 ml (I'm trying to convert to metric for years, and finally growing has motivated me to finally do so.) every other day of 17.5% H2O2. (35% is illegal to mail). I am also occassionally adding a few drops of SuperThrive. I'll quit adding it when I go 12/12, as it prolongs the flowering period. It assumes you are growing pretty garden flowers as oppossed to a crop that needs to be harvested, and it makes flowers grow slower and thereby stay on the plant longer.  

I am debating using the Fox Farms solubles during flowering. I had great success when I have used them before and they are already bought and paid for from my previous soil grows. If I do, I'll start slowly and see how the plants react. 

Thoughts? Concerns? Jokes?


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## Crystal Toy (Jan 4, 2011)

thanks Serapis, and yes the jamaican is sweet, got 2 phenos ( got 1 that has purple in the leaves ) both heavy head buzz 1 more than the other ( the purple one ) but wow very nice sativa, grows tall too, even crossed it with CRYSTAL ( WW and NH ), cant wait to taste that, gonna be on the next run.Good luck and hope you hit your 1.5 lbs mark, can't wait to see.


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## Serapis (Jan 6, 2011)

*nEW pICS:*

As you can see from the photos, Babylicious is all up in the screen's face. I have begun to train the taller growth outwards, opening up the center to light. Her sister is just starting to touch the screen. Combined, these two are drinking almost a gallon of water daily. The leaves look healthy, no signs of over or under feeding. The PH is stable at 5.6 at 22.5 centigrade. The PPM is at 1150 and the plants seem to like that rate for now.


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## Crystal Toy (Jan 6, 2011)

looking real nice.nice grow, gonna be a big one. How long did you vegg for till it hit the screen? also seen a plant (photo 006) with some yellowing lower leaves, is that normal at this stage? How long do you think it will take to weave 80% of the screen before going 12/12 ?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 6, 2011)

Thats some nice netting, Cant wait for those girls to fill that screen in and show their pistils.


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## Serapis (Jan 7, 2011)

Crystal Toy said:


> looking real nice.nice grow, gonna be a big one. How long did you vegg for till it hit the screen? also seen a plant (photo 006) with some yellowing lower leaves, is that normal at this stage? How long do you think it will take to weave 80% of the screen before going 12/12 ?


The plant with yellow leaves is a mom that needs attention. I'll tend to her and top her a few times this weekend. She won't be in the tent much longer. I think I can fill the screen in about another 2 weeks. Both plants combined are drinking a gallon of water a day. I removed a lot of the bottom fan leaves that were below the screen, last night, and she drank a little less today, because of that I think. The stems on the fan leaves were almost the size of a pencil. Hydro ROCKS!



jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Thats some nice netting, Cant wait for those girls to fill that screen in and show their pistils.


I love the net. Easy to work with, easy to hang in a tent. I can't wait to flip these girls either. I'm excited about nursing a ton of colas. If I can get a cola every other spot in screen, I'll be happy. Once she hit the screen, it seems as though every part of the plant wants to branch up now.


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## Young Lungz (Jan 9, 2011)

+ rep. This is a great thread and you explain everything in so much detail its almost impossible to not understand. And it also makes me very jealous


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## Serapis (Jan 9, 2011)

Young Lungz said:


> + rep. This is a great thread and you explain everything in so much detail its almost impossible to not understand. And it also makes me very jealous


It certainly isn't my intent to make anyone jealous.  Thanks for the kind words. I hope you stick around til the end. I'm not going to chop, post a wet weight and end the thread. I intend to write about drying and curing this harvest as well. There is a fine line between drying and curing that many miss. Off to eBay to buy some hygrometers....


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## Serapis (Jan 9, 2011)

I just purchased several half gallon jars, about a dozen, and hygrometers for each jar. I intend to store after I cure, and a hygrometer in the jar is crucial just as it is in a cigar humidor. You don't want your smoke drying out too much. The hygrometers will also let me know when to burp or air out the jars. We are about 5-6 weeks from a harvest and I can't wait. This will be my first "controlled" cure. Before I always guessed and it has ended up in mold, too dry or dank.... Mostly though, too dry. Only had mold once and it was actually a mildew, so I had to water cure that harvest. I watched 10 ounces get compressed to 6 after that process, but the weed was smokeable. Actually, it was more than smokeable. It made the weed look awesome, with dark cinnamon colored hairs and dark greenish-red leaf material. I'll share a pic of what water cured looks like compared with the exact same strain that was jar cured.

The water cured bud is on the left. Notice how much darker it is. If you look carefully, you'll see the water cured bud STILL has shiny trichs on it. The don't wash away. The trick is to use luke warm water and do not agitate buds and water. I gently stirred, never shook my jars. Instead of air, I used water and allowed the bud to water cure for about 7 days. *CAUTION* this method will remove a lot of the dank smell from your bud. While this makes it ideal for shipping via UPS or FED EX, those that love the aroma of their smoke won't like this method.

The bud on the right is the exact same strain, only air cured and not as old. The bud was cut on Xmas eve and has been in a jar for only about 8-9 days now. The smell is coming back and the buzz is out of this world. It still has a bit of harshness to it, but the taste is sweet. It will truly be dank smoke in another 4-6 weeks.

Which bud would you rather have? The buzz is nearly equal. The water cured smoke is smooth and not harsh at all. Whic buds look more appealing?


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## wyteberrywidow (Jan 9, 2011)

I would have to go with the one on the left it has more color to it.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 9, 2011)

I have to say the water cured bud but thats only because IT IS BIGGER, lol DO YOU HAVE TWO THAT ARE MORE OF THE SAME SHAPE AND SIZE AND YOU WILL GET A HONEST ANSWER OUT OF ME, UNTIL THEN i WANT BIG BUDS.


Sorry for caps hit it on accident to lazy to fix.


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## AquaGlow (Jan 9, 2011)

I've never heard of water curing. Very interesting. Thanks


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## newbiebob (Jan 10, 2011)

i have wanted to try water curing. Can you go into a little more detail about the process you used? when you stired when you changed water what conditions you stored the jar in what type of jar etc?
sorry for the punctuation im a little high

+ rep great thread. 
very informative


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## Serapis (Jan 10, 2011)

Mason jars work OK, or just one gallon pitchers. I left the top off first 2 days, so if any gasses wanted to evaporate. First, fill with bud, then fill with luke warm water. At first, a lot of the bud will try to float. Just weigh it down with something, a canned good or something. Eventually it will stop floating. I change water every day for first 3 days, then every other, after that, for about 7-10 days. Never use hot or cold water, as you'll damage trichs. The buds will dy super fast when removed from the water, two days tops. (ironic isn't it?).

You'll end up with denser nugs that pack a punch, cool and smooth, soothing smoke with rich aroma and bouquet. The actual bud will lose much of it's stank, but not it's flavor. Great way to ship weed too.


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## Serapis (Jan 11, 2011)

*Attitude seeds is now sold out:

*I ordered these seeds what seems like a month ago, but alas, was only ordered on 12/12/2010 and they just arrived. The shirt that I selected with my "guaranteed delivery" option was the wrong size, but Rachel says she'll make it right, on my 'next order'..... go figure... pretty presumptuous of her I'd say, lol.

I just wanted to show the breeders pack and brag a bit, as Attitude is now sold out of these. Word travels quick when you win a cannabis cup title. My freebies were, get this, Reserva Privada Kandy Kush femmed, and a Kannabia Afrodite! Two very nice seeds. I'm just disappointed that my "Flying High" tee shirt was the wrong size, given it's cost and all.

*UPDATE:

*About 40% of the screen is full, most all of that is Babylicious, as her sister is just now coming up through the screen. The PH was up to 6.1, indicating that my ladies desire more food. The PPM has dropped to 850 as well, down from 1150. 

I have taken the PPM up to 1300 and am keeping a close eye on the plants. If they begin to wilt or show signs of damage, I'll be right on it. I truly believe the plants are begging for the high rate of food however. Babylicious has pre-sexed for me and has some stigma showing up here and there. Her sister looks close, however she is physically 14 days behind Babylicious, coming from a second seed germination attempt. While I will flip them simultaneously, the smaller plant will be allowed to flower about 2 weeks longer. This solves my drying issue, and frees up one Waterfarm for cleaning up and getting ready to host a BF Tangerine tree.

My goal is to have a rotating harvest. I'd like to keep up a harvest every 4-6 weeks if possible. This would allow me to have a more manageable sized harvest each time. I have (12) 1/2 gallon (2 quart) mason jars and hygrometers on the way. Good weed requires proper curing and storage.

45 minutes after upping nutrients, plants look fantastic, still. Added SuperThrive and H2O2 and Drip Clean as well as 500+ ppm of Flora Nova Bloom. Total ppm near 1400 right now. I expect the plants to continue drinking about a gallon of water per day now. Removing the sun leaves and other lower foliage seems to have increased the plant's vigor and branching, and it's need for water and nutrients.

After cleaning up the foliage below the screen and removing the huge sun leaves that were now getting no light, the plant's need for food went up. That makes sense, because those huge leaves store nutrients that the plant can tap into. Unfortunately, they also require a fair amount of water and energy to maintain. That is energy and water that could be used to generate and support new cell growth, rather than maintain the old.

Some will argue this point to death and tell you that you are harming the plant or it's yield if you prune or remove leaves. Let me say, just one time, in response to that theory, "HOGWASH"! Besides watering, pruning is the second most effective way that we can encourage growth in our plants. Let me explain....

Plant's have a hormone that controls side branching and bush like growth, called auxins. When you prune a tip off of a branch or stem, the plant releases auxins to the nodes below the cut and encourages them to grow branches. If you remove several tops on one plant, you'll end up with several colas and a bushy tree.

If you prune a branch back to the crotch of the main stem it grows off of, this is called a "thinning" prune, and it is done to allow light into the center of the plant. Generally, most of our cuts should be thinning cuts, to remove unneeded growth that will only take away from the production of bud, our actual goal of growing.

Auxins also cause plant growth to grow vertically. The auxins collect in the bottom of a stem and cause the top to turn up from them, towards the sky. It is this fact that aids us in scrog growing. When we pull growth that has emerged through the screen back down underneath it and gently encourage it to grow out, further from the plant's base, the plant release auxins, which will slow down the generation of roots and put the plant's energy into branching and vegging. It is important to choose a height above the plant that allows the roots to establish before you begin to train growth horizontally. Failure to allow enough room will decrease yield.

I'm not afraid to use my Fiskars during vegetation, or up to about 2 weeks into flowering. Once I'm that far into the grow, all necessary pruning and shaping has taken place. At this point, all of the plant's resources are being used for reproduction. She is producing buds... The only thing growing on the plant should be roots, stalks, stems, buds and supporting sugar leaves. I also leave on the top one or two sets of fan leaves. The rest of the stem will be clean.

I've cleaned up the lower portion of my plants twice now and I now have a plastic grocery bag stuffed full of leaves. I'm not removing everything at once. I'm starting with the huge sun leaves, then the large fan leaves. I'm not removing suckers.cuttings yet, as I may take clones. I haven't decided yet. I really want to do BF Tangerine sativa. I have a kandy kush to think about too...


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## Crystal Toy (Jan 11, 2011)

SWEET !!!!! keep up the great work. love the detail.


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## redrum83420 (Jan 11, 2011)

looking good im subbed


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## Serapis (Jan 11, 2011)

redrum83420 said:


> looking good im subbed


Glad to have a fellow grower on board....


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## Grumpy Old Dreamer (Jan 12, 2011)

I gotta try that water curing one day - good work (as usual) Serapis.

+ rep (if I can)


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## Serapis (Jan 12, 2011)

Near tragedy....


I stayed home from my part time job last night sick, with a back ache that was killing me. My roommate brought me one of those Homedic massagers with heat for computer chairs. As I was sitting here in disbelief of how good this thing felt, I looked up and saw that my remote read that the tent was 93 degrees! I got up in pain, but determined to find out what was going on. The vortex was working ok, turns out the inline was hot and barely moving air. The lamp felt hot too. Being a believer in having spare parts lying around (I have replacement bulbs here, just in case), I attached a second inline fan to the end of the duct and got it going. The temp dropped 14 degrees in less than an hour.

I swear by my ACU Rite remote hygrometer/thermometer. Had I not looked at it when I did, my plants would have baked in that tent. Considering what we do and what it's worth, we should have spares around to cover just about any emergency related to growing. Do you have spare parts around? What about ligyht bulbs and fans? Two of the basics. I encourage everyone to have spare parts available when they can. You never know when you are going to need it.


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## Serapis (Jan 12, 2011)

While tending to the plants tonight and replenishing water and nutrients, I noticed that many sites on Babylicious are showing pre-flowers. Pairs of hairs are sticking out all over the place.... I'm getting close to flipping the lights for flowering. I want the screen about 70-80% full when I do. I've ordered a 3rd WaterFarm. I am going to start cycling them into the tent for flowering in stages, so I can harvest a 2' x 4' screen every 4-6 weeks. That is my goal, anyways.


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## Skyy'dUpFlyy'dUp (Jan 13, 2011)

Looking very very Good!!! Sub'd. Im on my first grow Nirvana Bubblelicious but the "auto" version. Autos r great 4 my first grow but now im confident I can grow regular strans nxt. Will def keep up with your grow im tuned in. 

Now Roll Up


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## Kaptain Kron (Jan 13, 2011)

i agree with you about the pruning plants the plant in my sig got a weekly 80% trim of all large fan leaves and it was a rootbound mofo when i got it and it turned into that from a scrawny lil pos. Nothin but mg and water in that one and it came out alright. I hate you and your barneys farm TD you guys all had money when it was there now its gone and i got money I HATE YOU ALL..... Im sure they will come out lovely nice freebies you got too. Spare parts are always important to have especially when your pushin shit hard. I look at it like this we are all pushing our setups like they are race cars. Trying to max them out as much as we can. When you do that shit breaks. You cant run a 110 percent all the time without breaking something. Good shit having remote temp sensors smartest thing you can ever do. My friends talk all kinds of shit to me cause im lookin at my plants every thirty minutes but you wanna know why? because i know how i built my rig and its not ideal by any means. I dont even have a thermometer lol so i have to be on it even though im only using cfl's in the desk im talking about. But hey if i had remote shit like that i'd just have an alarm set to go off if it went over 85 or somthing lol clean serapis clean.

Glad you saved em.


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## Serapis (Jan 14, 2011)

*The ladies are lushes!:

*In a 24 hour period, my two plants each consumed a gallon of water. The PPM was still at 1150, so that is my plant's lucky number at the moment. It was odd, both waterfarms were within 5 ppm of each other and both had a 5.6 PH. Either I'm a master gardener, or more likely, this method is fool proof.

Those of you that think you can't do hydro, get off the can man. You can DO THIS! I'm simply maintaining the water level and replenishing a single nutrient. I also get to play with my plants while scrogging.

Take a look at the plant on the right, in the pictures. That is Babylicious. She is 2 weeks older than the plant on the left. She also has over 30 new growth tips that will soon become colas. It may actually have more than that, as it still has to go throw the flowering stretch. I will be flipping the switch over to flowering on the 18th.

I've included a couple of photos of underneath the screen. I wanted to show that even though I promote pruning, and even though I have taken nearly two grocery bags worth of fan leaf off of these two, look how much crap is still blocking air exchange below the canopy. I have my Fiskars with me, each time I sit and draw sample water for testing. I spend about 5-10 minutes pruning away waste and removing anything that won't be at the screen top by the 18th.

By the time I toss the lights over to 12/12, I want the bottom to have nothing but the waterfarms and stalks and branches. No leaves will exist under my canopy, at least not if I can reach them.

The way I see it is this, if the leaf can't get light, it isn't producing energy, yet if it is green and alive, parts that are producing are keeping it alive, rather than using those cells for new growth, the plant is sustaining the old growth, should it ever need the stored nutrients in the leaf. Since I am feeding the plant, I won't let it go without. It will never need those storage leaves down below, that aren't even receiving light. So off with their heads.

I know this flies in the face of reason for some people, but think about it. The leaf is not receiving light and producing energy. The plant is wasting energy to keep the leaves alive as storage collectors that it can later feed off of. Rather than waste that energy to sustain old growth, I remove the leaves and let the plant focus on new growth. Make sense?


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## redrum83420 (Jan 14, 2011)

your plants are looking good and healthy keep up the good work. cant wait to see those ladies flower


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## HowzerMD (Jan 14, 2011)

Everything looks great and you're right on the money with your pruning. Anything that's below your screen or in the shade is completely lopped off. I can see those suckers drinkin that much, too. With that much greenery to support it's no wonder . All nice and lush


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## inbudwetrust (Jan 14, 2011)

Yea dude, thanks man its a lot more clear what I am about to do now. Thanks I will follow your grow too. Possibly should only do two plants in that area, dwc, instead of four, in the rockwool. hmm, how long did it take to fill the screen two weeks?


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## Serapis (Jan 14, 2011)

inbudwetrust said:


> Yea dude, thanks man its a lot more clear what I am about to do now. Thanks I will follow your grow too. Possibly should only do two plants in that area, dwc, instead of four, in the rockwool. hmm, how long did it take to fill the screen two weeks?


I moved the Waterfarms into the tent on Christmas Eve. For Babylicious, that was about 6 weeks under Flouros, 6500k T-8's and then 3 weeks in tent under MH 600 watter. I think that the plant is going to just explode when it goes into flowering. When I do flip the lights, it will be exactly 2 months from when Babylicious was germinated from seed. I just started a new seed last night to begin the slow process of getting grown up and ready for the tent. It is a Reserva Privada Kandy Kush.


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## newbiebob (Jan 15, 2011)

i have been having problems with my dwc. When i vegg for 2 months by week 6 of flower (14 weeks total) the roots start to deteriorate. I use h2o2 i have tried bleach it always seeems to become an issue around weeks 5 -6 in flower


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## Serapis (Jan 15, 2011)

newbiebob said:


> i have been having problems with my dwc. When i vegg for 2 months by week 6 of flower (14 weeks total) the roots start to deteriorate. I use h2o2 i have tried bleach it always seeems to become an issue around weeks 5 -6 in flower


You got an airstone in your reservoir? What temp is your res running?


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## Serapis (Jan 15, 2011)

Flipped over to 12/12 today. I couldn't wait any longer with that monster under the screen.


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## redrum83420 (Jan 15, 2011)

sweet. how long under 12/12 till harvest?


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## HowzerMD (Jan 15, 2011)

Serapis said:


> Flipped over to 12/12 today. I couldn't wait any longer with that monster under the screen.


For sure. The stretch you get the first couple weeks of 12/12 will fill that screen up nicely.


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## Serapis (Jan 15, 2011)

redrum83420 said:


> sweet. how long under 12/12 till harvest?


The strain's photoperiod for flowering is medium, about 8-9 weeks. I have had it take 10 weeks before. This time, at the end of week eight, I'll cut lights down to 10 hours a day if needed to prevent the buds from generating new growth. They have a tendancy to do that while they should be filling with resin.



HowzerMD said:


> For sure. The stretch you get the first couple weeks of 12/12 will fill that screen up nicely.


I absolutely agree with you there. I think filling the screen won't be a problem. I am trying to keep most of the growth where it is easy to reach, but i think a lot of the spaces are going to end up with colas. Every node on these things is responding. I'm going to have to start upping the ppms soon from 1150 to 1400.


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## HowzerMD (Jan 15, 2011)

Serapis said:


> I absolutely agree with you there. I think filling the screen won't be a problem. I am trying to keep most of the growth where it is easy to reach, but i think a lot of the spaces are going to end up with colas. Every node on these things is responding. I'm going to have to start upping the ppms soon from 1150 to 1400.


Oh wow, those are some heavy eaters man. 1400 ppm is beefy. And hey,if there are those spots you can't reach it's just more space for bud. If worst comes to worst, I'm sure you have a pair of scissors handy


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 15, 2011)

Serapis said:


> The strain's photoperiod for flowering is medium, about 8-9 weeks. I have had it take 10 weeks before. This time, at the end of week eight, I'll cut lights down to 10 hours a day if needed to prevent the buds from generating new growth. They have a tendancy to do that while they should be filling with resin.
> 
> 
> 
> I absolutely agree with you there. I think filling the screen won't be a problem. I am trying to keep most of the growth where it is easy to reach, but i think a lot of the spaces are going to end up with colas. Every node on these things is responding. I'm going to have to start upping the ppms soon from 1150 to 1400.


I always hear about people switching to 10hrs towards the end. Have you even done any side by side testing, does it effect the yield at all?


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## Serapis (Jan 15, 2011)

Howser MD said:


> Oh wow, those are some heavy eaters man. 1400 ppm is beefy. And hey,if there are those spots you can't reach it's just more space for bud. If worst comes to worst, I'm sure you have a pair of scissors handy


You know I do....



jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I always hear about people switching to 10hrs towards the end. Have you even done any side by side testing, does it effect the yield at all?


Lowering the light to 10 hours a day speeds up bud ripening, so it does decrease yield a bit. Some strains will keep generating new bud material and take forever to ripen at 12 hours. For those, I recommend that the grower cut the lights to just 10 hours a day to signal the plant that the end is coming. This will get the stigma to start drying out, changing color and the bud to ripen as opposed to growing.


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## ataxia (Jan 15, 2011)

i must first say REP!!! You've answered a question i've been wondering for about 3 years now. A friend of mine gets beautiful, rock hard, crystally buds with no flavor or smell.
WATER CURING??? I never did much research on the subject but i ran past your post in here. Now i can explain to him why his buds have no flavor or smell but look ten times better than mine.
I'm still reading the thread.. i got excited when i saw the obvious answer to the question .... Now back to your thread.
Here's some bubblelicious i harvested about a month ago. Beautiful plant, beautiful smell, however, i do not care for the high at all. Not to say it's not potent. Just a little too paranoid of a smoke for me IMO.
GREAT JOB!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 15, 2011)

ataxia said:


> View attachment 1383497View attachment 1383498View attachment 1383499i must first say REP!!! You've answered a question i've been wondering for about 3 years now. A friend of mine gets beautiful, rock hard, crystally buds with no flavor or smell.
> WATER CURING??? I never did much research on the subject but i ran past your post in here. Now i can explain to him why his buds have no flavor or smell but look ten times better than mine.
> I'm still reading the thread.. i got excited when i saw the obvious answer to the question .... Now back to your thread.
> Here's some bubblelicious i harvested about a month ago. Beautiful plant, beautiful smell, however, i do not care for the high at all. Not to say it's not potent. Just a little too paranoid of a smoke for me IMO.
> GREAT JOB!


I dont think their are strains that make you more paranoid, its up too the individual to not be paranoid in fact I cant remember the last time I was paranoid.


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## Serapis (Jan 15, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I dont think their are strains that make you more paranoid, its up too the individual to not be paranoid in fact I cant remember the last time I was paranoid.


I think that he doesn't appreciate heavy body buzz traits because it makes him feel paranoid. It is something he doesn't like. It makes him human.  We are all different... I haven't been paranoid in a long time either, but I attribute that to smoking in my own home now, rather than someone else's.


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## UPNSMOKE23 (Jan 15, 2011)

That breed s a classic


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## ataxia (Jan 15, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I dont think their are strains that make you more paranoid, its up too the individual to not be paranoid in fact I cant remember the last time I was paranoid.


There are absolutely strains that make you more paranoid. IMO. matter of fact some breeders will actually advertise their strains as having a slight paranoid effect.
BTW.... when i say paranoid i don't mean looking out the windows type. I mean it agitates my anxiety disorder making me a bit more ..well anxious, jumpy.etc.
I have three different types of ganja on hand and i can assure you they all have different effects. I can smoke one strain that extremely clear with no worries, another lays me down, bubblelicous was beautiful, but made for an edgier smoke for me.
ahhhhh ... sorry not trying to have a debate in the thread. Just trying to point out the fact that some strains DO carry a more paranoia effect to them. 
my bubblelicous was a more heady, brain-bubbling high as opposed to a body high.


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Jan 15, 2011)

Hey Serapis droping in to see what you have been up to Looking good


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## Serapis (Jan 16, 2011)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> Hey Serapis droping in to see what you have been up to Looking good


Always a pleasure to have you in my thread good sir! You do realize don't you that you alone are reasponsible for about 5 or 6 new waterfarm grow threads?


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## lonestand (Jan 16, 2011)

wow impressive journal, i really like how you have laid out the information in such a understandable manor. lots of information on the grow with precise details A plus rep+

I must say you really got me thinking about going hydro when i re do my flowering room!!!


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## Serapis (Jan 16, 2011)

lonestand said:


> wow impressive journal, i really like how you have laid out the information in such a understandable manor. lots of information on the grow with precise details A plus rep+
> 
> I must say you really got me thinking about going hydro when i re do my flowering room!!!


You really should consider it. I was worried that the learning curve was going to be steep. I couldn't have been more wrong. You can also read the journal I link at this begining of this one, from ScottyBallz. He grew 16 ounces off a single plant using this same method. He was my inspiration.


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanks for the kind words Serapis  the whole point of doing a journal was to show others how easy it can be with hydro... And yes I really like to see people try it and have success with it cause from you and the other 5-6 grows another 5-6 grows may come out from each of you and it snowballs from there and will hopefully become a standard starting point in growing hydro or even established hydro growers that are fed up with more complicated systems and just want less hassle.. I mean really whats the point of growing 10 plants when you can get the same yield from 1 or 2 plants with the same amount of time.. anyway keep up the good work Ill be watching


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## Serapis (Jan 16, 2011)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> Thanks for the kind words Serapis  the whole point of doing a journal was to show others how easy it can be with hydro... And yes I really like to see people try it and have success with it cause from you and the other 5-6 grows another 5-6 grows may come out from each of you and it snowballs from there and will hopefully become a standard starting point in growing hydro or even established hydro growers that are fed up with more complicated systems and just want less hassle.. I mean really whats the point of growing 10 plants when you can get the same yield from 1 or 2 plants with the same amount of time.. anyway keep up the good work Ill be watching


Thanks!!

I couldn't agree more on the plant count idea. If I was to get caught growing illegally, I can simply claim first offender status and only having 3 plants wouldn't even be worthy of a press release, even though those same two plants could produce 2 pounds of product. When it comes to live plants, they never use size or weight, they use plant count. A word to others that grow in a state that might take offense to the hobby, learn what your state's Hard Felony number is and don't grow over it. In Florida, anyone in possession of more than 20 plants can be found guilty of a serious felony. 

It is because of this very reason I always caution would be SoG growers. Always know your plant count laws. With a tent and a 4' x 4' scrog, I can grow more than enough weed for me, my 3 patients and have left overs. (one of them eats edibles, so that takes care of the trim and airy buds. This system is incredible! Anyone that can use a PPM meter can grow this way. You can get by with just one nutrient. The plants need little interaction, maybe just 15 minutes a day tending to the reservoirs and training the growth. I spent way too much more time dealing with plants in soil containers. Besides the mess, the watering, the transplanting and so on, at the end, you have waste that needs composting, whereas with the reservoirs, I empty water out on tomatoe garden and gently heat up the rocks to sterilize before the next grow.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 16, 2011)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> Thanks for the kind words Serapis  the whole point of doing a journal was to show others how easy it can be with hydro... And yes I really like to see people try it and have success with it cause from you and the other 5-6 grows another 5-6 grows may come out from each of you and it snowballs from there and will hopefully become a standard starting point in growing hydro or even established hydro growers that are fed up with more complicated systems and just want less hassle.. I mean really whats the point of growing 10 plants when you can get the same yield from 1 or 2 plants with the same amount of time.. anyway keep up the good work Ill be watching


 I think u did ur job, I am always running into water-farm 400w grows you have really inspired many, and I mean shit look at my grow I am overwhelmed by what I have done and all I did was followed your instructions it couldn't be any easier.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 16, 2011)

ataxia said:


> There are absolutely strains that make you more paranoid. IMO. matter of fact some breeders will actually advertise their strains as having a slight paranoid effect.
> BTW.... when i say paranoid i don't mean looking out the windows type. I mean it agitates my anxiety disorder making me a bit more ..well anxious, jumpy.etc.
> I have three different types of ganja on hand and i can assure you they all have different effects. I can smoke one strain that extremely clear with no worries, another lays me down, bubblelicous was beautiful, but made for an edgier smoke for me.
> ahhhhh ... sorry not trying to have a debate in the thread. Just trying to point out the fact that some strains DO carry a more paranoia effect to them.
> my bubblelicous was a more heady, brain-bubbling high as opposed to a body high.


I see I was pictureing some high school style paranoia. OMG a cop pulled behind us, shit he knows were high put ur cool face on. I think im like serapis I never ever smoke in public just at my house or my friends house.

Smoking weed in cars scares the shit out of me, it only takes one mistake to get pulled over. I dont even fuck with it, been too lucky in the past i know my luck would have run out at some point so I just avoided it all together.


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## Serapis (Jan 16, 2011)

A Tip:

You always hear tips that you like when you don't have the means to try them, like adding a couple of fresh marijuana fan leaves to a dry bag of bud to rehydrate it. You always hear a tip like that when you don't have the ingredients, and then quickly forget it. I've been medicating, so try to stay with me on this... LOL  I finally have an ounce of water cured bud that is extremely dry. I want to hydrate it. Remembering that old tip I read many years back, I plucked a couple of medium to small sized fan leaves off my mother and rolled them up in the bag with the buds. Just two days later, the bud has a bit of aroma to it and it is hard to keep lit in a bowl. It was also nice to break up a bud and not have it crumble. Simply from tossing in a couple of fan leaves with an ounce of weed.... Whoever did that first, may i say? Brilliant!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 16, 2011)

lonestand said:


> wow impressive journal, i really like how you have laid out the information in such a understandable manor. lots of information on the grow with precise details A plus rep+
> 
> I must say you really got me thinking about going hydro when i re do my flowering room!!!


 Dont think just do it, I can gurantee you that youll never go back to the dirty old dirt.


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## Serapis (Jan 16, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I see I was pictureing some high school style paranoia. OMG a cop pulled behind us, shit he knows were high put ur cool face on. I think im like serapis I never ever smoke in public just at my house or my friends house.
> 
> Smoking weed in cars scares the shit out of me, it only takes one mistake to get pulled over. I dont even fuck with it, been too lucky in the past i know my luck would have run out at some point so I just avoided it all together.


Very good point. If I do feel the need to go out with weed for a good time, I take it in a wooden bowl that has a stash spot in the airway. I pack the bowl and pack the stash spot. That's all I bring. If need be, I can toss that bowl pretty damn far. 

I do smoke at home and at my friend's house. I do not smoke and drive. I just don't take chances at all. Sometimes being a grower keeps me out of trouble. I have often wanted to flip off a bad driver or cuss out an idiot and I don't. I remember that I do not need attention, and I keep quiet and move along.

It is the price i pay...


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 16, 2011)

Serapis said:


> A Tip:
> 
> You always hear tips that you like when you don't have the means to try them, like adding a couple of fresh marijuana fan leaves to a dry bag of bud to rehydrate it. You always hear a tip like that when you don't have the ingredients, and then quickly forget it. I've been medicating, so try to stay with me on this... LOL  I finally have an ounce of water cured bud that is extremely dry. I want to hydrate it. Remembering that old tip I read many years back, I plucked a couple of medium to small sized fan leaves off my mother and rolled them up in the bag with the buds. Just two days later, the bud has a bit of aroma to it and it is hard to keep lit in a bowl. It was also nice to break up a bud and not have it crumble. Simply from tossing in a couple of fan leaves with an ounce of weed.... Whoever did that first, may i say? Brilliant!


Nice what if u took some fan leaves that have a bunch of fresh trics on them I bet it would make it smell even better. I always heard to put a little orange p[eel in the jar over night.

My friend in high school use to put small orange peels and lemon peels except he did it wrong he always left them in their and his bud was always too wet.

He also use to say that he could notice more trics forming from when he left his bud in jars and we didn't grow back then maybe we even had some of Mexico's finest brick weed.

Lol classic ignorant high school kids.


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## Serapis (Jan 16, 2011)

I've used orange peel before. It works great and the smell of citrus is a welcome plus. I have some trichy leaves I can try on another ounce. They smell real minty and I just cut them off. (just topped my 6 month old mother)


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 16, 2011)

Serapis said:


> I've used orange peel before. It works great and the smell of citrus is a welcome plus. I have some trichy leaves I can try on another ounce. They smell real minty and I just cut them off. (just topped my 6 month old mother)


 What would we do without mothers.

[video=youtube;wBkTUzKAiXQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBkTUzKAiXQ[/video]


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## Serapis (Jan 16, 2011)

I absolutely LOVE Pink Floyd....

Thanks for adding a track to my journal!  

Mother did it need to be so highhhhhh........?


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 16, 2011)

Yea its crazy I have been listening to Pink Floyd from like 15 years now and I still find new inspiration and meaning and its just all around good healthy well though out music and my god David Gilmore. Its a shame that some people stigmatize them as like hippies or LSD heads or something just because either hippies and LSD heads love them(only cause its amazing music) or because of Sid Barret's antics with LSD. 

Some people just wouldn't know good music if it smashed its fist in their face(like pink floyd and fistful of amazing rock too the face) but then again these are the same peole that like Lady GaGa and Justin Beber. Cant wait till that beber kid hits puberty so he gets tossed into the tarsh by music executives looking to suck the life out of the next fake ass entertainer.


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## Serapis (Jan 16, 2011)

Do you really think your time here is long lived? Welcome to RIU Japan..... Will your IP be next?


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## Rickybobby0007 (Jan 16, 2011)

Someone likes the term "fuck face"


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## Serapis (Jan 16, 2011)

YourTroll said:


> I love the term fuck face, it so describes fuck face well. Fuck face is going to bring me with him to every thread and every post he makes, because he's a fuck face


It's only a matter of time before these useless posts are deleted. Feel free to ignore the troll.


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## doc111 (Jan 16, 2011)

That took a little longer than I expected.

Serapis, what did you do to piss off japanfreak so much?

Evidently you will need to invest in a new computer here in a couple of months. lmfao!!!!!!!!!


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## Serapis (Jan 16, 2011)

doc111 said:


> That took a little longer than I expected.
> 
> Serapis, what did you do to piss off japanfreak so much?
> 
> Evidently you will need to invest in a new computer here in a couple of months. lmfao!!!!!!!!!


LOL... According to it.... However I don't think so. He'll tire of proxies and generating email accounts long before I tire of flagging his foolishness. He likes to troll, and there are other boards out there, he'll have his hands full....


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 16, 2011)

Man this guy is quit the linguist, hey fuck face, yo fuck face, FUUUUUCCCCKKKKK FACCCCEEEEE. I just picture this guy hanging out with the Budweiser frogs saying fuck face over and over and being amused they can say it.

[video=youtube;pVcbasIb8lQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVcbasIb8lQ[/video]


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## dez13 (Jan 16, 2011)

oooh fuck face


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## doc111 (Jan 17, 2011)

Serapis said:


> LOL... According to it.... However I don't think so. He'll tire of proxies and generating email accounts long before I tire of flagging his foolishness. He likes to troll, and there are other boards out there, he'll have his hands full....


Hey bro, I got your pm but I can't send one back to you. Thanks for the info.

Do you mind if I add you?


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## Serapis (Jan 17, 2011)

doc111 said:


> Hey bro, I got your pm but I can't send one back to you. Thanks for the info.
> 
> Do you mind if I add you?


Request sent bro.... Thanks!


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## dez13 (Jan 17, 2011)

Watch out people, crossing guard at work


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## Serapis (Jan 17, 2011)

dez13 said:


> Watch out people, crossing guard at work


You only have 8 days to go....


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## dez13 (Jan 18, 2011)

Crossing guard working. Make way. Crossing guard.


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## Serapis (Jan 18, 2011)

dez13 said:


> Crossing guard working. Make way. Crossing guard.


To those that subscribe and receive email when new content is posted to this thread, I apologize that you received dez13 comment notifications. It is obvious from the posts, that it is Japanfreak, who is undergoing some time away for being a general jack ass and troll on the forums. He is mad at me for being the one to flag his messages that violated the terms of service at RIU. He was actively involved in e-fights in about 4 threads, calling people names, telling people their ideas were stupid, etc., a real winner. Though the posts from Your Troll (also Japanfreak) have been removed, Japanfreak threatened to create endless throw away accounts to harrass me until I quit RIU. That is his stated goal.

I'm asking my friends to keep an eye out for Japanfreak in the future. Some of you may have received a PM advising of such. If you so much as see him pick a fight, call someone a name, make harrassing posts, etc., please feel free to flag the post and report it for violating terms of the forums. He'll be back online under Japanfreak screen name in 6-7 days. In the meantime, please ignore his tripe posts in this thread, regardless of what name he is posting under. Currently he is using dez13 and who knows what other screen names.


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## redrum83420 (Jan 18, 2011)

i just skip reading his dumb ass posts. japanfreak is a moron, and a child. im here for your thread not that dumb ass.


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## Rickybobby0007 (Jan 18, 2011)

The "fuckface" guy again? lol, lame


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 18, 2011)

Rickybobby0007 said:


> The "fuckface" guy again? lol, lame


 I never really heard anyone use the word fuckface he really love faces that get fucked. Hmmmm I question his sexuality now that I think about his obsession with faces that get fucked.


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## andthatisright (Jan 18, 2011)

great journal and big reps, I have learned some good info already.. 
I grow in a similar way being I would bend the plant or even do the pinch thing and then bend it at that point, is this maybe sorer on a plant? than topping it, know both ways makes a much bigger/wider plant, although i havent used a screen yet, i will definitly be using one next tim,e


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## HowzerMD (Jan 18, 2011)

Serapis said:


> To those that subscribe and receive email when new content is posted to this thread, I apologize that you received dez13 comment notifications. It is obvious from the posts, that it is Japanfreak, who is undergoing some time away for being a general jack ass and troll on the forums. He is mad at me for being the one to flag his messages that violated the terms of service at RIU. He was actively involved in e-fights in about 4 threads, calling people names, telling people their ideas were stupid, etc., a real winner. Though the posts from Your Troll (also Japanfreak) have been removed, Japanfreak threatened to create endless throw away accounts to harrass me until I quit RIU. That is his stated goal.
> 
> I'm asking my friends to keep an eye out for Japanfreak in the future. Some of you may have received a PM advising of such. If you so much as see him pick a fight, call someone a name, make harrassing posts, etc., please feel free to flag the post and report it for violating terms of the forums. He'll be back online under Japanfreak screen name in 6-7 days. In the meantime, please ignore his tripe posts in this thread, regardless of what name he is posting under. Currently he is using dez13 and who knows what other screen names.


All those trolls can suck a fat one as far as I'm concerned. I click out of threads without reading very far or posting on a regular basis to avoid shit heads and this japan guy happens to be on a lot of those. I've seen many a decent thread ruined by jerk-offs like him. The best thing we can all do that far too many people are not : ignor him. No, not the ignor button. Just pretend he isn't there. That's it. If he doesn't get a response to his bullshit he'll scoop it up and move on. It's hard for some of us to just plain ignor dick heads like that, but no matter how wrong he is and how right we are there is no justified response to him. None. No matter what evil stupid things he has to say. He is out-right begging for attention and getting to all of us while doing so. If we all just forgot he was here and pretend like he still isn't he will go away. Remember, this is the internet


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## T.M.B (Jan 19, 2011)

Serepis did you go with the caliber3 hygrometers or another brand,I went with them and crossing my fingers seems early on all great reviews then more recent lots of unhappy customers. I am going to try the perfect cure i read about on IC MAG.


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## Serapis (Jan 19, 2011)

T.M.B said:


> Serepis did you go with the caliber3 hygrometers or another brand,I went with them and crossing my fingers seems early on all great reviews then more recent lots of unhappy customers. I am going to try the perfect cure i read about on IC MAG.


I went with Eco Reptile hygrometersIt's a hard plastic case item, about 2.5" in diameter.

I'm with you on the cure. So far, I've been able to keep a half gallon mason jar at 67% for 3 days. My RH is 52%, so that helps. This stuff is smelling sweeter by the day. I reluctantly took out an eigth, explaining it wasn't done and they loved it. It smelled awesome.


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## Rickybobby0007 (Jan 19, 2011)

T.M.B said:


> I am going to try the perfect cure i read about on IC MAG.


Any chance you have a link to this T.M.B?


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## T.M.B (Jan 19, 2011)

Very nice,now that i am doing medical and not just personal i felt i need to be spot on,and the cure seems equally important after this first complete cycle next will be much less stressfull. It has been funny first afraid of losing my seed in the farm then scared of a hermie next chopping at the right time hoping i flushed right,then cure properly. Anyhow the new clones in the farms are looking great roots are already popping out the bottom,and i think you made a good decision on flipping I missed 1 day of training and i cracked 2 branches trying to pull them under and said thats enough on my pe the roots were blocking up my air supply i had to pull the tube out and clean some roots out to get it dripping better that was scary cause that bottom piece came off luckily a coat hanger fished it back up glad thats over. By the way your plants look great i am sure you made the right choice flipping.


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## T.M.B (Jan 19, 2011)

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=156237 Here you go hope you dont mind Serepis.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 19, 2011)

How long do you normally cure for before you provide the medicine to your patients?


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## Serapis (Jan 20, 2011)

T.M.B said:


> http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=156237 Here you go hope you dont mind Serepis.


Not a problem.. Any infor or references are welcomed in marijuana discussion in any of my threads.


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## Serapis (Jan 20, 2011)

*It pays to be attentive:*

Do you remember last week when I wrote about my temps hitting 93 and realizing my inline 160 cfm fan for the light hood had expired? Had I not been paying attention to my tent's environment, I could have easily lost the crop.

Today while tending to the scrog and reworking some grow tips, I looked up at my light, expected to be blinded, and lo and behold, the glass lens is filthy. Now mind you, I never touch it between bulb changes, and even then, I always wipe off any prints.

Well, I guess it had been awhile since I looked at the inside pane of the lens, because it was covered in dust! My inline fan at the other end was pulling in fresh unfiltered air from my room, and with it, dust. There is no telling how many lumen were lost during the last 5 days. But I caught it early in flowering and hope it has diminished my yield. If anything, I might have lost a day in flower time.

I'm merely writing this to show that it pays to pay close attention to your grow and your environment, and equipment. I know to pay attention to the plant and study the leaves for any signs of problems, but I need to constantly remind myself to check timers, make sure all fans are operating, the hood glass is clean, that the exhaust and hood fans are in good working order.

I'm going to have to either rig up a 6" diam. filter, or go buy some thigh high panty hose and fashion one. I should probably filter my passive intake as well. I occasionally find a stray dog hair inside.


*Update:*


The plants are looking great. The flower cycle flip stretch is one, big time. The PPM is up to 1600 as I've introduced Open Sesame to the nutrient mix. The PH has dropped a bit down to 5.6 from 5.8, however that is due to the plant's consumption of nutrients, I really don't want to go much higher, even though the plant is signaling it's OK. Babylicious is the offender mostly, as I have to add fresh nutes to her res each day. The other plant is going steady and some days just gets fresh water. She isn't as big as her sister yet.


The new Waterfarm arrived yesterday. The Reserva Pravada Kandy Kush UFO germed somewhat in the Rapid Rooter, but I have removed it and placed the seed and tap root directly on the hydroton and I have a small irrigation dike made with tin foil directing drips over the seed. I hope this seed takes. After 5 days in the rooter, I began poking around a bit and saw the tap root, so I misted the rooter and placed it back in the dark dome. 3 days later, the tap root is still bright white, but it has gone nowhere. 



Since going hydro and switching to rapid rooters for germination, I have had nothing but trouble. I have had 2 seeds do nothing, one seed grew the tap root straight up until it was almost 1/2". I was able to save the seedling by removing it from the plug and placing it on the hydroton in the farm. I went through the trouble of buying a heating mat, a nice hard plastic 6" high tray and dome, getting rapid rooters, and still I have trouble germing seeds in these damn things. I had trouble with peat pellets too and gave up on those all together.


When growing in soil, I always used a seed starter and solo cups and had nearly a 100% germ rate. My germ rate for rapid rooters is about 20%. What the fuck am I doing wrong? I'm beginning to think Rapid Rooters suck for seeds. Please don't advise me to use paper towels and a zip lock. I can get a tap root going just fine in the rooters. I just want help making the rapid rooters work. I PH water, I soak, I shake excess, I place seed about 1/4" deep, maybe a tad deeper, at most, 3/8" from surface. I use no nutes. I leave rooter in 1/4" water, as instructed on package to prevent the rooter from drying out.


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## redrum83420 (Jan 20, 2011)

i put the plug in a red plastic cup with a clear plastic cup over it. i mist the inside of the clear cup atleast once a day. once a had some roots i stuck it in my diy water farm.


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## Serapis (Jan 20, 2011)

redrum83420 said:


> i put the plug in a red plastic cup with a clear plastic cup over it. i mist the inside of the clear cup atleast once a day. once a had some roots i stuck it in my diy water farm.


I do the exact same thing pretty much. Are you putting a seedling and plug in the waterfarm or a seed with a root?


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## redrum83420 (Jan 20, 2011)

small seedling with little roots. running the drip ring 24/7. once root made it to the water i added a air stone also.


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## Serapis (Jan 20, 2011)

redrum83420 said:


> small seedling with little roots. running the drip ring 24/7. once root made it to the water i added a air stone also.


There is no need for an airstone, but thanks for the tip. Plenty of air is introduced into the water via the air pump and the surface area of the hydroton. The water can't even take in all of the oxygen that is available to it. I did however bore out the holes in the plant container and added some new ones for the roots to find there way into the water reservoir. At that point, we are running DWC AND drip.


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Jan 20, 2011)

Serapis said:


> There is no need for an airstone, but thanks for the tip. Plenty of air is introduced into the water via the air pump and the surface area of the hydroton. The water can't even take in all of the oxygen that is available to it. I did however bore out the holes in the plant container and added some new ones for the roots to find there way into the water reservoir. At that point, we are running DWC AND drip.


Yes Serapis airstones indeed do nothing for a waterfarm.. 95% oxygen is picked up in the surface layer of water.. all airstones do is disturbe the suface layer.. however its not important because its allways raining and driping in the DWC section of the waterfarm, Plus all the water that pours over the hydroton is nothing but surface water.. wait till you see the root mass in the lower section all a airstone would do is take up root space.. lets get a pic update!


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## Serapis (Jan 20, 2011)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> Yes Serapis airstones indeed do nothing for a waterfarm.. 95% oxygen is picked up in the surface layer of water.. all airstones do is disturbe the suface layer.. however its not important because its allways raining and driping in the DWC section of the waterfarm, Plus all the water that pours over the hydroton is nothing but surface water.. wait till you see the root mass in the lower section all a airstone would do is take up root space.. lets get a pic update!


I'll do more pics tomorrow. I always try to get some up for the weekend. Now that I'm starting flower, I'll have more to take photos of.

I'll do a root ball shot at the end.  I spent 15 minutes working screen spots today. I'm setting up the tips near the final spots and making sure to space them out. My goal is a cola every other three holes, so in any given direction, the colas will have 2 empty spots between them. That will accompany some fat colas and allow the air to circulate and the light to get down to them. That is my goal. In reality, I have a lot of tops coming up. I may have to selectively pinch some off to keep the screen from overcrowding. I shoulda went flower mode 7 days earlier. But it's ok, it's indica, it's in a screen, and we have plenty of room to raise the light. Glad I didn't prop up the farms on a platfor like I was going to to get them off of the floor.


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## newworldicon (Jan 21, 2011)

Serapis said:


> I found that with NO plant in a working water farm, the PH is impossible to stabilize. I don't understand any scientific reasoning for that fact, but test runs with no plant are useless. LOL
> 
> My PH is currently stable, however Babylicious tends to stay at around 5.6 while her sister maintains a perfect 5.8, day after day. The water farm, combined with Flora Nova Bloom nutrients is near fool proof. I learned the basics on soil, the only new thing to me was PPM, but once you get the meter and understand how PH and PPM interact, anyone could do this. It is that easy.
> 
> ...


Your fluctuating PH may be because of the smaller size of the reservoir been used, smaller body of water is easier to manipulate. I wanted to ask you if the bubbalicious you are using now, is it from seed or is it a clone from the seeded mom? I ask this as you are setting a very high benchmark to achieve with yield, and potentially expecting this from a plant yet to be flowered out or knowing it's real genetic potential and character? Or have you seen her flower out?


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## Serapis (Jan 21, 2011)

newworldicon said:


> Your fluctuating PH may be because of the smaller size of the reservoir been used, smaller body of water is easier to manipulate. I wanted to ask you if the bubbalicious you are using now, is it from seed or is it a clone from the seeded mom? I ask this as you are setting a very high benchmark to achieve with yield, and potentially expecting this from a plant yet to be flowered out or knowing it's real genetic potential and character? Or have you seen her flower out?


This is my 4th Bubblelicious grow. She is a good yielder, nice dense colas. I put a high expectation on her because I've seen the previous yields under soil, this one is hydro. The plants are much larger than my soil plants, and I'm training the plants. Babylicious, by herself, has over 30 tops and is a healthy monster. I'll post pics today.

The res may be small, but the PH has been stable up until now. I'll know if the extra food fixed that in a bit.


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## newworldicon (Jan 21, 2011)

Serapis said:


> This is my 4th Bubblelicious grow. She is a good yielder, nice dense colas. I put a high expectation on her because I've seen the previous yields under soil, this one is hydro. The plants are much larger than my soil plants, and I'm training the plants. Babylicious, by herself, has over 30 tops and is a healthy monster. I'll post pics today.
> 
> The res may be small, but the PH has been stable up until now. I'll know if the extra food fixed that in a bit.


Sounds positive, I read somewhere that it is better in hydro to fix the PH at 5.5/5.6 if you can and let it ride up to 6.0/6.2 during the week or however long it takes, that way the whole range of nutrients are available at different PH levels. Although I have had successful grows fixed at 5.8, in my last grow I employed the tactic of drifting the PH and my yield was spectacular, I got 746g of dried bud from 8 church plants and 612g from 8 Medi bud plants. 

Your babylicious sounds very fine, good luck with her!!


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## Serapis (Jan 21, 2011)

LOL, and all this time, I thought a stable PH was da shit.... 

Another near disaster hopefully averted. I installed two new 9" clamp on fans purchased from Office Depot yesterday and last night while in bed, I hear this slight noise, I assume is a fan. I went to check on it today and the noise is the drip ring on Babylicious Farm, it's clogged. I just knew that while removing it for cleaning that this was going to end up being some huge ordeal, trying to snake the tube back down, etc. 

I got lucky. The ring came off with little fuss and I didn't separate the air line from the pick up tube, which I was dreading. I ran super hot water through the ring and blew out all of the crap that was in there, it looked mostly like root tissue, organic waste crap. I suspect it got up into the ring when I overfilled it last week, and I just noticed the problem today. Be careful about overfilling your farm, thinking you can go away for a day, because you can't. Anything that floats is going to appreciate the higher water level, cause then it is a lot closer to freedom, escaping through the ring, and getting caught up in front of a drip point.

Another tip, when assembling a Farm, always point the access indent part of the supply tube going from the res to the upper bucket, facing the immediate corner of the bucket. This will prevent the early blockage of the tubes, by the roots.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 21, 2011)

I have had to stick a paperclip through the holes to unclogg them, I have some roots crawling around the drip ring, but who knows if they are in the drip ring.


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## Serapis (Jan 21, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I have had to stick a paperclip through the holes to unclogg them, I have some roots crawling around the drip ring, but who knows if they are in the drip ring.


LOL, better check, cause I wouldn't doubt it. I'm glad my drip ring made noise, the entire top of the hydroton was dry. I was strictly a dwc then with a lot of roots not getting water directly.


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## bongmarley2009 (Jan 21, 2011)

@ Serapis, when you say point the waterfarm tube towards the immediate corner of the bucket, you mean that the clear air tubing that runs down the pumping tube should be facing the corner of the farm?


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## Serapis (Jan 21, 2011)

Both the outer brown tube, and the tip of the uptake tube that is inside of it have a base that is flat, but a portion of it is cut away, to allow water in. Those openings should be facing the immediate corner. If you face them towards the center of the bucket, they'll get clogged earlier by roots on the reservoir bottom.


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## redrum83420 (Jan 21, 2011)

i didnt know that. i'm going to have to check and see how the tubes for my farm are facing in the morning, when the lights turn back on. i'll switch the drip ring also just to be safe.


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## dgaf757 (Jan 21, 2011)

after your comment, i saw you had nirvana bubblicious growing. looking real nice. such a good strain, i always have to check out a grow. that trellis you made, its plastic fencing right?


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## MsBBB (Jan 21, 2011)

I am along for what I can learn, and I have learned from following this thread. I am no where near ready for hydroponics/aeroponics and understand about half of what is being talked about. Honestly, I am not ready for soil growing but I jumped in anyway. I am learning things here that I can put to good use for my dirty soil grow Be on your best behavior because I am ready for class.


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## Serapis (Jan 21, 2011)

dgaf757 said:


> after your comment, i saw you had nirvana bubblicious growing. looking real nice. such a good strain, i always have to check out a grow. that trellis you made, its plastic fencing right?


Good eye on the trellis!  I bought it at Lowe's Home Improvement Center in the garden center. It serves as my screen for my screen of green grow. I love Bubblelicious, it is a fantastic strain from Nirvana. It is always a pleasure growing these plants.



MsBBB said:


> I am along for what I can learn, and I have learned from following this thread. I am no where near ready for hydroponics/aeroponics and understand about half of what is being talked about. Honestly, I am not ready for soil growing but I jumped in anyway. I am learning things here that I can put to good use for my dirty soil grow Be on your best behavior because I am ready for class.


Welcome to RIU and the thread. I'm certainly glad you joined us. Please feel free to ask any questions, related to my grow or not, that would be fine. A lot of us are here to help if you get stuck or run into a problem. I'll have to tell ya though, this grow is extremely easy. All you need to understand is how to read a PH and a TDS or ppm meter and have a slight green thumb. This grow only take one bottle of nutrient. Soil is good to grow in too. It has it's pluses.


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## Serapis (Jan 22, 2011)

*UPDATE:

Light cycle: *FLOWER:Since 01/15/2011

PH: 5.6
ppms: 1600

Here are the pictures I promised earlier. The plants are doing great. Only 7 days under 12/12 and my Babylicious is looking good. She is stretching HARD. I pretty much have the tops where I want them, on the right side of the screen, I'm hoping the plant on the left gets it's stretch going soon. (it is 14 days behind the other plant in age, the first seed never germed.)

I emptied out the reservoirs as best I could yesterday and filled each one with 2 gallons of fresh distilled water. After about an hour, I took ppm readings and got about 500 ppm. It's near impossible to fully empty these things unless you get them off the floor, which means taking away valuable space up top. I went ahead and added Open Sesame from Fire Fox, about 1/2 tsp to each farm (that is half strength) and Flora Nova Bloom (of course), 10 ml of 35% H2O2, 3 drops of drip clean, 7 drops algae destroyer. (my blue water level tubes have some growth)

I'm keeping a close eye on the plants. I was reading last night about Hydro grows in the Feb HT and it got me nervous on things that can go wrong. I need this crop. I'm down to 5 oz in reserve, and I share with 2 people. With another 53 days to harvest and another 14-21 for dry-cure, it's time to ration. I haven't had to pay for a bag of weed since October and I want to keep it that way.

Don't get me wrong, I pay, just not to a dealer. Growing is expensive. My last power bill was about $120 more than it should have been. I blame that on my first time MH bulb burns for 18 hours a day and cooling the tent. I need to set up my exhausts in my tent to blow outside. I've been putting off the duct work, but i have to get it done. Right now, both ducts (fan exhaust for hoods and for tent) just hang off the side and top and exhaust back into my room. 

I've been using an AC in my window to offset, but it's costing me big now, and I got to get that hot air outside. Luckily, my windows are facing my backyard, and I can easily camouflage the screened exhausts with a rose trellis or something. I have a privacy fence, but just for 'in cases', I want to disguise it.

Any ideas on constructing a window for two exhausts would be welcome. The window is a double, top over bottom style, vinyl. I have an AC in one, and the other I was going to attach vents to then the ducts, once it was in the window. I have some insulating board left, aluminum duct tape, 2 dryer vents 6". I need some plywood and camo ideas.


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## P.coltrane (Jan 23, 2011)

Hey boss. I have a couple questions. What make/model/size is your tent? Second is I'm not to familiar with waterfarms. But running a scrog how do you change the water I'n those without messing up the trellis? Or for anyone running a dwc. I'm under the impression that you gotta at least be lifting the lids to pump out old solution if you just don't swap out a clean, refilled tub instead?

Thanks and your grow looks good.


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## P.coltrane (Jan 23, 2011)

Hey boss. I have a couple questions. What make/model/size is your tent? Second is I'm not to familiar with waterfarms. But running a scrog how do you change the water I'n those without messing up the trellis? Or for anyone running a dwc. I'm under the impression that you gotta at least be lifting the lids to pump out old solution if you just don't swap out a clean, refilled tub instead?

Thanks and your grow looks good.


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## Serapis (Jan 23, 2011)

P.coltrane said:


> Hey boss. I have a couple questions. What make/model/size is your tent? Second is I'm not to familiar with waterfarms. But running a scrog how do you change the water I'n those without messing up the trellis? Or for anyone running a dwc. I'm under the impression that you gotta at least be lifting the lids to pump out old solution if you just don't swap out a clean, refilled tub instead?
> 
> Thanks and your grow looks good.


Thanks

The tend is a DRW120 , which is a 4' x4' x 6.5' It's made by Secret Jardin.

The farms have a blue water elevation meter on the side that swings down and allows water out. That is also how we draw water for testing ppms and ph. To add water, we just pour it in through the top.


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## bongmarley2009 (Jan 23, 2011)

@ Serapis: What temperature range does your tent usually sit at with the 600w light on? And what is your usual ambient temperature outside the tent? The reason I am asking this is because I would like to run 2 waterfarms in a Secret Jardin DR100L or DR90 (the Dark Room 2 line) which are both approximately 3'x3'x6'. I know a 400w light would work just perfectly, but I would prefer to go with a 600w.

Also, my buddy and I propped the waterfarm up on a bucket so that we could drain the res into a 2 gallon bucket. What is your technique for draining the res?


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## Serapis (Jan 23, 2011)

bongmarley2009 said:


> @ Serapis: What temperature range does your tent usually sit at with the 600w light on? And what is your usual ambient temperature outside the tent?


Looking at my display, the high is 83 in the tent and the low is 73. The temp outside the tent is around 75 currently.




bongmarley2009 said:


> Also, my buddy and I propped the waterfarm up on a bucket so that we could drain the res into a 2 gallon bucket. What is your technique for draining the res?


I would have loved to have had some height on my farms, but that would have detracted from the canopy. As it is now, I'm going to have buds about 16" from the light. Draining the res takes patience, and I never worry about not getting it all out. I'll be scrubbing it out after harvest. I am going to raise them 3.5" next time with 4" x 4"'s..


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## newworldicon (Jan 24, 2011)

bongmarley2009 said:


> @ Serapis: What temperature range does your tent usually sit at with the 600w light on? And what is your usual ambient temperature outside the tent? The reason I am asking this is because I would like to run 2 waterfarms in a Secret Jardin DR100L or DR90 (the Dark Room 2 line) which are both approximately 3'x3'x6'. I know a 400w light would work just perfectly, but I would prefer to go with a 600w.
> 
> Also, my buddy and I propped the waterfarm up on a bucket so that we could drain the res into a 2 gallon bucket. What is your technique for draining the res?


If you increased the extraction you will have no problems, I have a friend who runs a 1000W in a 3x3 with a 8 inch extraction fan and he has no problems with heat issues. I personally have a 600W in a 4x4 with a 6 inch and my temps never go beyond 80 even in the summer.


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## two2brains (Jan 24, 2011)

hey man i use a 2 1/2 gallon wet/dry shop vac from walmart to drain the last bit of my water farm. It will pretty much suck it dry. The shop vac is only about a foot tall and has a handle on it for carrying etc. All you gotta do is turn the blue drain hose to the side like normal and turn on the shop vac.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Shop-Vac-Portable-Wet-Dry-Shop-Vac-589-02-00/15567192


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## newworldicon (Jan 24, 2011)

two2brains said:


> hey man i use a 2 1/2 gallon wet/dry shop vac from walmart to drain the last bit of my water farm. It will pretty much suck it dry. The shop vac is only about a foot tall and has a handle on it for carrying etc. All you gotta do is turn the blue drain hose to the side like normal and turn on the shop vac.
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Shop-Vac-Portable-Wet-Dry-Shop-Vac-589-02-00/15567192


Good idea!


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## Serapis (Jan 24, 2011)

Damn the bad luck... Babylicious, has once again developed a problem with her Water Farm. The pick-up became clogged. I got the air tube and pick up about half way up the chute before the damn pick-up tip separated from the water supply tube that goes to the T in the drip ring. The damn pick up tip and the air tube collars are the exact same size as the inside of the water/air supply chute. Poor design if you ask me.

I was unable to fish the tip out, so I pushed it through and used the one from my back up waterfarm. She is now getting good water supply. The ppms are still in the 1600 range. The canopy is looking nice. I'm no longer relocating the hardier stem tops. It's time to let them catch the end of the stretch from right where they are.


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## Serapis (Jan 24, 2011)

newworldicon said:


> If you increased the extraction you will have no problems, I have a friend who runs a 1000W in a 3x3 with a 8 inch extraction fan and he has no problems with heat issues. I personally have a 600W in a 4x4 with a 6 inch and my temps never go beyond 80 even in the summer.


Same here. I use a vortex for tent air exhaust that's been scrubbed, and I use an isolated fan/duct for the hood, drawing air from outside the tent, through, and out the other end.


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## newworldicon (Jan 24, 2011)

Serapis said:


> Damn the bad luck... Babylicious, has once again developed a problem with her Water Farm. The pick-up became clogged. I got the air tube and pick up about half way up the chute before the damn pick-up tip separated from the water supply tube that goes to the T in the drip ring. The damn pick up tip and the air tube collars are the exact same size as the inside of the water/air supply chute. Poor design if you ask me.
> 
> I was unable to fish the tip out, so I pushed it through and used the one from my back up waterfarm. She is now getting good water supply. The ppms are still in the 1600 range. The canopy is looking nice. I'm no longer relocating the hardier stem tops. It's time to let them catch the end of the stretch from right where they are.


I thought you may have nitpickety issues with them waterfarms, nice idea but too many things to clog and go wrong. Ebb and flood baby!!!!


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 24, 2011)

newworldicon said:


> I thought you may have nitpickety issues with them waterfarms, nice idea but too many things to clog and go wrong. Ebb and flood baby!!!!


 Yea but my buddy bought a $500 ebb and flow table and uses a 600w light. I bought a $65 waterfarm and use a 400W light and I am going to grow more than he will.


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## newworldicon (Jan 24, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Yea but my buddy bought a $500 ebb and flow table and uses a 600w light. I bought a $65 waterfarm and use a 400W light and I am going to grow more than he will.


And that's down to the waterfarm vs. the ebb and flood??? or down to the strain, grower etc.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 24, 2011)

newworldicon said:


> And that's down to the waterfarm vs. the ebb and flood??? or down to the strain, grower etc.


 Really just grower, he sucks. But the waterfarm is the shit.


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## newworldicon (Jan 24, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Really just grower, he sucks. But the waterfarm is the shit.



It's good to believe in your products. Lets hope he is not on RIU checking this thread out. LOL.


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## bongmarley2009 (Jan 24, 2011)

@ Newworldicon, thanks for your input. I would definitely plan on running a 600w air-cooled light with a 6" 400+ cfm fan hooked up to a carbon filter. I would go with a 3'x3' or bigger Secret Jardin tent. In addition, I like your idea of using that shotvac to drain your res. Great idea and definitely beats having to prop the waterfarm up 6" or more. 

@ Serapis, is your Vortex fan loud? I have a valueline 4" and 6" and they are not exactly quiet. I ended up purchasing a duct noise reducer plus a fan speed controller to combat the problem. And I do wish that the waterfarm's column support brown tube was just a little bit bigger so if it does get clogged, you can easily slide out and fix the pumping support column with clear tubing. When I first got the waterfarm, I had trouble with the clear tubing coming apart from the pumping column when I was sliding it into the brown support tube. Luckily, the only problem we had was the drip ring getting clogged for 3 days 1 week before harvest.


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## newworldicon (Jan 24, 2011)

bongmarley2009 said:


> @ Newworldicon, thanks for your input. I would definitely plan on running a 600w air-cooled light with a 6" 400+ cfm fan hooked up to a carbon filter. I would go with a 3'x3' or bigger Secret Jardin tent. In addition, I like your idea of using that shotvac to drain your res. Great idea and definitely beats having to prop the waterfarm up 6" or more.
> 
> @ Serapis, is your Vortex fan loud? I have a valueline 4" and 6" and they are not exactly quiet. I ended up purchasing a duct noise reducer plus a fan speed controller to combat the problem. And I do wish that the waterfarm's column support brown tube was just a little bit bigger so if it does get clogged, you can easily slide out and fix the pumping support column with clear tubing. When I first got the waterfarm, I had trouble with the clear tubing coming apart from the pumping column when I was sliding it into the brown support tube. Luckily, the only problem we had was the drip ring getting clogged for 3 days 1 week before harvest.


I did not realise I had helped with input but it's a pleasure. Vortex 6 inch runs at about 40+ db at full tilt, the quietest fans are S&P fans, the 6 inch is 19db but double the price unfortunately. Which continent you on Marley?


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## bongmarley2009 (Jan 24, 2011)

@ Newworldicon, I am in America. Unfortunately the S&P 6" fan is only 293cfm which I am not sure will be effective cooling the reflector when also hooked up to a 6" carbon filter. I did see one on ebay for $137 shipped which isn't bad if its the quieter than the rest.


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## newworldicon (Jan 24, 2011)

bongmarley2009 said:


> @ Newworldicon, I am in America. Unfortunately the S&P 6" fan is only 293cfm which I am not sure will be effective cooling the reflector when also hooked up to a 6" carbon filter. I did see one on ebay for $137 shipped which isn't bad if its the quieter than the rest.


Here's a link to the ones I speak of.......http://www.basementlighting.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?page=1/PROD/SPTD

The 6 inch is 580 cm3/h and actually 22db but still good.


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## Serapis (Jan 25, 2011)

bongmarley2009 said:


> @ Serapis, is your Vortex fan loud? I have a valueline 4" and 6" and they are not exactly quiet. I ended up purchasing a duct noise reducer plus a fan speed controller to combat the problem. And I do wish that the waterfarm's column support brown tube was just a little bit bigger so if it does get clogged, you can easily slide out and fix the pumping support column with clear tubing. When I first got the waterfarm, I had trouble with the clear tubing coming apart from the pumping column when I was sliding it into the brown support tube. Luckily, the only problem we had was the drip ring getting clogged for 3 days 1 week before harvest.


My fan controller actually arrived before my fan did. It's extremely quiet. My PC and external drive fans make more noise.


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## bongmarley2009 (Jan 25, 2011)

@ Newworldicon, I would use that 6" s&p fan to cool the reflector (via the Secret Jardin reflector ports) and a 4" fan hooked to a carbon filter for exhaust. But I'm just planning for the future when I do get the opportunity to grow again. I passed all my equipment to my buddy and he has been carrying the torch since. 

@ Serapis, fan speed controllers are money money money. Makes the fan much quieter especially when you don't need to run your fan at full speed. Also purchased a duct noise reducer and that cut it down even more.


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## Serapis (Jan 26, 2011)

*Out of Nitrogen?*

You would think so after looking at some of the pictures. Trust me, the leaves are looking very healthy. VERY healthy. All of the cleaning I did below the screen was fortunate, as now I have new growth to remove, but I'm going to wait until the stretch is over.

Check out the drip ring on the plant on the right. That is as far as it will go down now. I suspect the other pickup connector is right below the replacement. I tried to move the chute around to get it out of the way, then I started thinking of what else could go wrong and I left it alone. I am contemplating gluing the pickups to the pickup tube for the next grow. I also have a spare plumbing set on the way. Anyone growing in a GH Waterfarm should have a back up set of plumbing in case something goes wrong, or for convenience. Imagine replacing the clogged drip ring in 10 seconds and tossing the dirty one in the dish washer or letting it soak in a sudsy sink. Only $15 on eBay with free shipping. 

The keywords were "waterfarm plumbing" You could also use one of these kits, a 3 gal and a 5 gal bucket, some hydroton, and make your own waterfarm! The kit includes the grommet that the water level tube uses. Just need a drill and you are good to go. So for about $30, you can make yourself a $60 waterfarm. If any DIY'ers out there decide to do this, please start up a thread and post the link in here.

PH 5.6 - 5.8
ppms 1800
Res Temp 23.8 C

Check out the growth since the last pics!! Except for spacing colas, I'm not working the screen anymore. I am still tucking fan leaves back to let some tops get light, but most of the strongest producing tops are already in place. I'm only moving the thin stemmed ones around now to make sure that all the colas will have room to grow and expand. I am still working the plant on the left, as it is 2 weeks behind.

My Kandy Kush seed has yet to come up. I split the side of the Rapid Rooter and the seed has cracked and the tap root has wrapped half way around the seed and was aiming up. It's been two weeks. Yet another failed Rapid Rooter germination. I removed the seed and the still white tap root and placed them in a peat pellet. I also started a G13 Pineapple Express seed, in a peat pellet, just in case. If I avoid mold, peat never fails me. I have had nothing but problems with cubes and rapid rooters, non-germination, upside down seedlings, etc. The temp in the germ room is 83 and the humidity is 45%. If I see no signs of either seed by week's end, I'll open the closet door and cool the air down to 76 and see if that makes a difference. When I was growing soil and using a soil like organic starter, my germ rate was near 100%, so this is frustrating me. I'm so close to reverting back to soil for seedlings and then just converting to hydro with a root bath. I'd like to avoid that mess altogether...

On to the pictures.... I got some nice shots of some of the star tops that are sure to pack on the buds. The color is off due to HPS lighting.....


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## Serapis (Jan 26, 2011)

I will be building a fogging cloner in a day or two. I'm waiting on the net pots to get here and then I'll put together a quick tutorial and parts/price list in another thread. I'll link the tutorial in this thread when it is done. I got the idea from a forum thread somewhere and I can no longer find it. I have the idea pretty firmly in my head though, so no worries. It looks to be a fool proof cloning method. I'm tired of spending on seeds.


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## T.M.B (Jan 26, 2011)

Serepis with that airtube happened to me last week had 2 of them stuck in tube. get a metal coat hanger unbend it and make one small bend on the bottem. Trust me it will slip past them twist a little and lift you will snag em do 1 at a time, the one on there now will probably come off when you try and remove it, I cant tell you how I paniced when I had 2 stuck in the tube thinking wtf did i just do lol all good now good luck.


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Jan 26, 2011)

looking good serapis.. I don't know why GH made that brown tube so small.. they never use to be that tight... I sometimes see the air line clog here is what I do..

Instead of trying to pull out the whole pumping column disconnect the 1/4" tubing from the pump to the waterfarm air line.. I use a piece of speaker wire I cant remember the size but I'm thinking its 14 gage .. run the wire down the tube spinning while inserting when it stops push and pull the wire several times like you were cleaning a mini gun barrel.. thats all you need to unclog it and by doing this you don't risk pulling apart your pumping column.. also you can apply epoxy to the bottom piece of the pumping column to make it permanent and will not pull off. Epoxy will not effect your plant, ph or conductivity..


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## Serapis (Jan 27, 2011)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> looking good serapis.. I don't know why GH made that brown tube so small.. they never use to be that tight... I sometimes see the air line clog here is what I do..
> 
> Instead of trying to pull out the whole pumping column disconnect the 1/4" tubing from the pump to the waterfarm air line.. I use a piece of speaker wire I cant remember the size but I'm thinking its 14 gage .. run the wire down the tube spinning while inserting when it stops push and pull the wire several times like you were cleaning a mini gun barrel.. thats all you need to unclog it and by doing this you don't risk pulling apart your pumping column.. also you can apply epoxy to the bottom piece of the pumping column to make it permanent and will not pull off. Epoxy will not effect your plant, ph or conductivity..


LOL, now you tell us.  I was just suggesting a few posts ago that gluing that pick-up connector to the pick-up tube would be an ideal fix. I'll also get some copper wire for that cleaning out trick. Any tips on keeping the blue water level tube see through? It seems mine have darkened and seeing the water level is a bitch. I sometimes have to squeeze the tube to make the level indicator move so I can see where it is at. I understand why they didn't use clear tubing, but that dark ass blue apparently is not inhibiting any growth in that tube, or I'd be able to see. I have been looking for a long mini brush. I occasionally put drops of H2O2 in the tube and sometimes a fish/plant tank algae killer. Nothing seems to work. Any tricks here?


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## Serapis (Jan 27, 2011)

I see a lot of the same questions being asked over and over, so I'm going to attempt to address one or two of them.

*WEAVING: *It is rare that you will "weave" your plants into the screen. After you have some experience working a scrog, you may use that technique to hold a straggler in place, or help a weaker stem support a bigger bud. To weave means to incorporate into the screen. That is done by running a stem under and over the netting. For the most part, you do not want to do this. Should you need to move that branch later, good luck. The technique utilizes a method that is VERY easy to understand, however it does indeed take a little practice to make the most of your scrog.

The proper technique involves training the growth tips. When a top comes up through the screen, allow it to grow a couple of inches, then pull it back down under the screen and stretch it away from the plant's base to the next spot on the screen. I usually try to stretch my tops out by 2 or 3 squares per scrog session. If the top won't reach, I leave it alone until the following day, when it is a bit longer and can reach to the next spot.

By doing this, we are forcing the plant growth to go horizontal. EVERY node below the screen will receive auxin, a hormone that will cause branching. Every one of those nodes below will start branching out and then up, striving for light. What I do is top my plants before they even go into the tent. My goal is 4 strong tops. I generally leave 3-4 nodes of the plant when i top, so each one of those lower nodes will develop into a thick branch, able to support a smaller network of branches that will grow from it.

I like to work my tops out in the pattern of an "X" The 4 main tops get stretched out into the "X" pattern, and any branches off of the main branches, will be trained to fill in the middles. This is the easiest pattern to follow. I've seen people use a box pattern and a circle. The choice is yours.

*When to Flower?: *Deciding when to flower is a personal choice. No one can tell you that you need to begin flowering on a set calendar. However, we all strive for that 'perfect' window to flip our lights. When scrogging, we have a concern or two as to when that time comes. I've seen several misconceptions on this topic. Number one, do not wait until your screen is full before flipping the lights to the flower cycle. Why?, you ask, because, once you start flowering, the plant is going to go into stretch mode. The top few nodes are really going to stretch apart and prepare themselves of handling the weight of a cola.

The new growth that accompanies the stretch will have nowhere to go if you have already filled out the screen. As I said, I work my mains into an "X" pattern. The secondary branches that come from those branches are encouraged to stretch to the ends of the screen and fill in the empty portions on the edges. The branches that come later in the plant's life will be used to fill the middles, that are closer to the main branches. 

The trick to timing the light cycle is to know your strain. In order to find the sweet spot, you have to know how much more growth the plants are capable of. Once you have filled the corners of your screen and have about 80% of the middles filled in, flip your lights. At this point, you'll continue to work the scrog and train the plants for about ten more days, until the screen is nearly full, at which point you can take a break from working the top, and get below the screen and start removing any growth that will not be receiving light. A well done scrog will not be getting any light below the canopy.

*PRUNING: *If you are one of the ones that refuse to remove a leave or cut off a perfectly good branch, scrogging may not be for you. In order to get a head start on branching, many growers that utilize a scrog will top their plants. They may also FIM or LST them. Controlling the growth and pace of the plant is essential when growing in a scrog. Growers will have to prune tops to encourage branching, and the amount of fan leaves that are removed is nothing short of a harvest in itself.

I have spent over an hour at a time, cleaning up under the canopy and while doing so, routinely fill 1-2 plastic Wal*mart bags with leaves. I try to tuck huge fan leaves that are shading other tops at the screen, back into the netting. If they refuse to cooperate and insist on blocking a site, I pluck the leaf. I have no aversions to taking off fan leaves. If you are scrog growing, you have to be able to remove leaves and feel good about it. You are not going to decrease your harvest. If anything, growing on a scrog increases it by four fold.

I didn't intend to write a novel, just wanted to cover a few topics that I see being discussed the most.


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## WakethBaketh (Jan 29, 2011)

Subscribed to this thread a while ago after I read Scotty's grow and finally just sat down and read the whole thing. It's such a pleasure watching this grow journal and reading your posts because you always include so much detail! Not to mention you always explain why you do certain things which is always a plus! I'm loving all these waterfarm threads because there is a plethora of information in every one. Sorry if I'm rambling just a little medicated.


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## Serapis (Jan 29, 2011)

WakethBaketh said:


> Subscribed to this thread a while ago after I read Scotty's grow and finally just sat down and read the whole thing. It's such a pleasure watching this grow journal and reading your posts because you always include so much detail! Not to mention you always explain why you do certain things which is always a plus! I'm loving all these waterfarm threads because there is a plethora of information in every one. Sorry if I'm rambling just a little medicated.


Thanks for reading my journal. I appreciate EVERY one that is along for the grow.

I have some new pics coming in a few minutes.


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## Serapis (Jan 29, 2011)

Hi! 

*12/12: 14 days*
*PH 5.5
PPM: 1400
TEMP: 80 - 73
HUMIDITY: 42-53%

*
​Here we are, just finishing up week 2 of 12/12. The actual flowering time is close to 2 weeks as well, because these plants were already showing sex when they were flipped. The screen has filled up nicely, as the pictures show. Babylicious is about done stretching, her flowers are far more pronounced now. Her sister, had a huge growth spurt last night. The PPMs in her tank were about 1700 last night and this afternoon, it was 1250. She really put on some cell growth last night and tore up some nutrients. I dropped her down to 1400 today after topping her tank, because I don't want to burn the roots. If she is reading below 1k ppm or near that tomorrow, I'm going right back to feeding her aggressively.

I'm still adding about 1 tsp of Fox Farms soluble 'Open Sesame' about every other nute top off. I'll be switching over to Beastie Blooms in week 3 more than likely, and then finishing the last 3 weeks with Cha Ching. I'm still maintaining roughly 1100-1200 ppm solely in the General Hydroponics Flora Nova Bloom. I also swap between adding 5ml of 35% H2O2 and 1 ml of Drip Clean. The hyrogen peroxide helps maintain a healthy reservoir and the drip clean breaks up salts so the don't build up and lock out nutrients.

​
*Clean up time:

*I took the time to enjoy my morning coffee today while pruning and cleaning up the plants. I removed a 5 gallon bucket of branch and leaf material while cleaning up below the canopy. I was not able to reach the back area. I also removed or cut back fan leaves above the canopy that were blocking buds. I was careful here not to overdo it. Mt mind thought was to touch no leaf, so I went with that thought and was very selective. Anything that was not at the canopy level getting light was removed. This will allow the plant to focus on bud production. It will also reduce the amount of water consumption and help lower the humidity in the grow tent.

Thanks for taking the time to check out my update and following my grow. I enjoy sharing it with all of you and the conversations we have along the way. 


​


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## rollajoint (Jan 29, 2011)

Cant wait to see the final outcome dude . I watched scott's grow and like you was inspired. Im Currently growing in soil and will be moving to waterfarms after my current grow. Good luck dude im watching closely


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## Serapis (Jan 29, 2011)

rollajoint said:


> Cant wait to see the final outcome dude . I watched scott's grow and like you was inspired. Im Currently growing in soil and will be moving to waterfarms after my current grow. Good luck dude im watching closely


Thanks Rolla... always happy to have people along for the trip. I can't wait to see how this goes either.


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## newworldicon (Jan 29, 2011)

Hey Serapis, I thought you would be curious to note I have purchased 4 of these bad boys....http://www.hydroponicshut.com/pro-grow-260-watt-led-grow-light.html and will publish a full grow journal on their performance. 2 per 4x4 tent. I know you will be interested in the result.

PS. sorry to interrupt the threads original purpose.


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## Serapis (Jan 29, 2011)

newworldicon said:


> Hey Serapis, I thought you would be curious to note I have purchased 4 of these bad boys....http://www.hydroponicshut.com/pro-grow-260-watt-led-grow-light.html and will publish a full grow journal on their performance. 2 per 4x4 tent. I know you will be interested in the result.
> 
> PS. sorry to interrupt the threads original purpose.


Not at all bro.... it sounds related to my grow, so by all means... mention it...


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## newworldicon (Jan 29, 2011)

Serapis said:


> Not at all bro.... it sounds related to my grow, so by all means... mention it...


Thanks, I will utilise their 90 days return policy if after [email protected] simultaneous 8 week grows do not produce results. I want to see if 2x260W units can indeed produce the dry 500-550g I get on average in a 1.2x1.2sqm tent from a 600W HPS. if they do then I save on heat, 280W of elecricity per 24 hours which is a lot and zero thermal heat.


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## Serapis (Jan 29, 2011)

Here is a few quick pics of my bucket cloner. Inside, in a float, is a fog maker and red LED. I have a clear plastic dome ordered that isn't here yet, it fits right over a 5 gal bucket top. (eBay)

The cuttings are inserted into 2" neoprene inserts which sit in 2" net pots. The net pot are empty and the bottoms are cut out. They simply act as a solid stopper for the inserts.

I bought an aquarium heater, but so far haven't needed it. I'm keeping a close eye on the clones to see if they wilt.


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## redrum83420 (Jan 29, 2011)

looking good. how much was the clear dome for the 5 gallon bucket?


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## Serapis (Jan 29, 2011)

redrum83420 said:


> looking good. how much was the clear dome for the 5 gallon bucket?


5 for $24.99.... 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370454803691#vi-content


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## redrum83420 (Jan 29, 2011)

nice find


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## Serapis (Jan 29, 2011)

I knew someone had to make them.... He was only seller I found...


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## Serapis (Jan 30, 2011)

*I'm in love!!

*It's been a little under 24 hours since I first turned on my new DIY cloning bucket and inserted some fresh cuttings. I have not misted the cuttings, except right after I took them, I misted with water and SuperThrive.

I have the fogger on a timer so it runs for 30 minutes, and then is off for 30 minute cycles. This prevents the water from getting too warm. I had it on non stop last night and this AM, the bucket felt warmer than it should have. I certainly don't need an aquarium heater with this rig. That's $19 I can deduct from the cost of the project. 

That leaves about $55 spent on the project. Well worth it if you ask me. If needed, this set up can be quickly converted to a DWC unit that can support 5 young plants in net pots and hydroton. These should root quickly, then I'll use the cloner as a DWC for a couple of weeks until I figure out what to do with these clones. They are more or less an experiment.

Am I missing any details or overlooking the obvious on anything here? I feel as if I am... If I had a small tent, I'd set up the clones to make fem seeds... I may still do this after some thought.

The ladies in the tent are looking spectacular. flowers are getting big and I swear I see the difference every day. Below are pics of the bucket babies though, as this post is about them. If neither of my two seeds have popped by the time these babies have roots, the best looking one is going into the farm behind them. The other 4 may become soil grows outside on a new trellis I'm thinking of installing. 

Pics below. No misting, check out the color and look of those cuttings. They are not under a dome either.


​


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## redrum83420 (Jan 30, 2011)

looking good. what light cycle you have them under?


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## Serapis (Jan 30, 2011)

redrum83420 said:


> looking good. what light cycle you have them under?


The clones are under 24 hour t-8 flouros 38W x 2 @ 6500k Cool white Plus


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## redrum83420 (Jan 30, 2011)

kool. keep us posted on how long it takes for roots to grow. loving the set up


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## VooDudeâ¢ (Jan 31, 2011)

Hey Serapis dude,

Think this is my first post lol, Have been reading a lot of grow journals and I'm following your grow with much anticipation  It's looking great so far! I too have been inspired by the 8th wonder that is Scottyballs!  

I am moving into my own place soon with my gf and I have a small in-built closet that I am hoping to use as a grow space, with 1 waterfarm and using a SCROG, I'm thinking of starting off with some Aurora Indica, It will be my first grow ever and I plan to get a journal up, so that other first time growers can learn from my mistakes (as I'm sure I'll make LOTS lol) and also hopefully for some input from experienced growers on here.

I have a hell of a lot of questions still, but I will do my own research for the most part instead of pestering you, so far you have answered quite a few things in this thread that I haven't quite understood so many thanks for that! 

The one question that burns my brain that I have for you though is - and I know you have said how easy it is to use a waterfarm - but do you really think it would be easy enough for a first time grower like myself? Bear in mind I have no experience in actually growing anything, but I'd like to think I have quite a lot of common sense and I can pick things up very quickly.

Also just wanted to ask you about the plastic SCROG you have, would you recommend a plastic one as opposed to a chicken wire version like Scotty's? My reasoning is that with the chicken wire being metal and rigid, and the holes being a lot smaller than the plastic trellace, that pulling the tops back through them could easily lend to the cutting/scraping of a steam if you're not 110% concentrating, or are the stems small and thin enough to do this at the time you need train them?

Anyway, hope they made sense lol. If I can figure out how to add a subscription to the thread I will, atm I just have it bookmarked  I'll try and give this "rep" people talk about too 

Thanks man, and good luck!


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## WakethBaketh (Jan 31, 2011)

On top of the first post on this page there is a drop down menu called thread tools then just click "Subscribe to this Thread"


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## Crystal Toy (Jan 31, 2011)

"Am I missing any details or overlooking the obvious on anything here? I feel as if I am... If I had a small tent, I'd set up the clones to make fem seeds... I may still do this after some thought"

@ serapis. great work, love the fogger. Q. for you, if i may. How do you do fem seeds or can you provide a link or some sort. Thanks. would like to know how YOU do it. like the way you operate.


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## Serapis (Jan 31, 2011)

Crystal Toy said:


> "Am I missing any details or overlooking the obvious on anything here? I feel as if I am... If I had a small tent, I'd set up the clones to make fem seeds... I may still do this after some thought"
> 
> @ serapis. great work, love the fogger. Q. for you, if i may. How do you do fem seeds or can you provide a link or some sort. Thanks. would like to know how YOU do it. like the way you operate.


Firstly, thanks for the nice words. I have never bred on purpose, so when I do, it will be my first attempt. I'm going to purchase some colloidal silver and treat a female clone for about 10 days. When she starts to grow balls, I'll harvest the pollen and then pollinate a few flowers in a grow and let those flowers seed. This is a great way to 'shut down' a strain you have been growing and switch over to another strain. With seeds, you can resurrect your killer strain several years down the road.

I considered just using the ruderallis method of letting an overripe bud produce some seed, but that method is unreliable. I'd like to be able to produce seed whenever I need it. In my small operation, a couple of hundred seeds of one strain is all I need. I'll never need to seed that strain again. I have space here in the house, I just have to think this one through.


VooDude&#8482;;5246533 said:


> Hey Serapis dude,
> 
> Think this is my first post lol, Have been reading a lot of grow journals and I'm following your grow with much anticipation  It's looking great so far! I too have been inspired by the 8th wonder that is Scottyballs!
> 
> ...


I think a lot of people just use what they have on hand or can find. I know for sure that I did not want to have to build one. I have seen the elaborate scrog screen builds with wood, hardware, etc... I wanted something quick and easy. Some plastic fencing and a couple of bungee cords later, I have one that works. I do intend to build something that can roll out of the tent somewhat so that I can work the back. Also, I want to use a formed scrog soon, in the shape of half of a circle. I've seen them and feel they get better light exposure on the ends.


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## Serapis (Jan 31, 2011)

redrum83420 said:


> kool. keep us posted on how long it takes for roots to grow. loving the set up


I love that bucket too. The dome should arrive today, but so far, haven't needed it. I'll definitely post when I see roots...


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Jan 31, 2011)

Thats a nice cloning bucket, a very simple and neat set up.


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## Serapis (Jan 31, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Thats a nice cloning bucket, a very simple and neat set up.


I love it! I have never been so excited by a new toy.... The cuttings look just as alive as the minute I took them. No misting or dome needed. No sprayers, no drips, no pump noise.... just my lil mini fogger.... kickin ass and takin names...


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## VooDudeâ¢ (Jan 31, 2011)

Serapis said:


> I think a lot of people just use what they have on hand or can find. I know for sure that I did not want to have to build one. I have seen the elaborate scrog screen builds with wood, hardware, etc... I wanted something quick and easy. Some plastic fencing and a couple of bungee cords later, I have one that works. I do intend to build something that can roll out of the tent somewhat so that I can work the back. Also, I want to use a formed scrog soon, in the shape of half of a circle. I've seen them and feel they get better light exposure on the ends.


Nice one, ty  

@*WakethBaketh - Got it ty 
*


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## Grumpy Old Dreamer (Jan 31, 2011)

Crystal Toy said:


> "Am I missing any details or overlooking the obvious on anything here? I feel as if I am... If I had a small tent, I'd set up the clones to make fem seeds... I may still do this after some thought"
> 
> @ serapis. great work, love the fogger. Q. for you, if i may. How do you do fem seeds or can you provide a link or some sort. Thanks. would like to know how YOU do it. like the way you operate.


Hi Crystal Toy, 

I half expected Serapis to point you at my Colloidal Silver thread, but as he hasn't I may as well do it instead.

Follow the link in my sig.


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## Serapis (Jan 31, 2011)

Grumpy Old Dreamer said:


> Hi Crystal Toy,
> 
> I half expected Serapis to point you at my Colloidal Silver thread, but as he hasn't I may as well do it instead.
> 
> Follow the link in my sig.


It crossed my mind, but I never b'marked it. Thanks for providing the link. From what i remember of it, he even shows you how to make your own colloidal silver. I'm just going to buy some spray from an online retailer and have a go.


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## Crystal Toy (Feb 1, 2011)

Serapis said:


> It crossed my mind, but I never b'marked it. Thanks for providing the link. From what i remember of it, he even shows you how to make your own colloidal silver. I'm just going to buy some spray from an online retailer and have a go.


Thank you serapis and grumpy, will check it out for sure. love making my own seeds and would love to have them femmed.


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## Serapis (Feb 1, 2011)

*Welcome to da family!:

*
​Today is a very exciting day for me. Just as I am about to give up on both seeds, I notice a slight bump on the surface of the Pineapple Express pellet. I gently moved the peat aside and waiting there for my view, was a baby cotyledon leaf. A tear nearly escaped my arid ducts, as I danced around with glee. This had to have been the longest germination session ever; At least it felt like it. I have included a picture of this momentous occasion and I hope that all of you will help me celebrate, with a lift of your piece and a light from your Bic.

*Cloning Bucket:*

Day 3

The dome top arrived, but I'm currently still not using it. The centers of the hollow stems have filled with a white woody looking substance. This literally happened within the last few hours. I've heard of visible roots in 5 days.... we shall see. Sooner or later, those cuttings are going to want food. I have a weak foliar solution mixed up. The only problem with fogging my cuttings is that nutrients can't travel in the fog and reach the roots. I'll have to feed the cuttings through foliar feeding, spraying it directly on the leaves, until all the cuttings have enough roots for running DWC. At that time, I'll add another gallon and a half of water, remove the fogger and add nutrients. The roots can feed directly. I'll add some hydroton, slip the whole thing into a complete net pot and place it back in it's location in the bucket.

I figure that under the flouros, the bucket as a DWC can support the plants for up to two weeks, at which time they'll need bigger accommodations. I need to design a dripper or DWC system to support 4" net pots. I figure I can easily transfer a 4" DWC plant to a waterfarm. I have seen it done with a big diameter piece of PVC pipe. They place hydroton around the empty pipe. The roots and then the plant are lowered into the pipe. The pipe is quickly lifted up off of the plant and the hydroton falls into place covering up the roots.

*Flowering Madly:

*TEMP: 74-82Humidity: 51-59%
Days in cycle: 17
PH 5.8
ppm 1600

The tent is causing me great happiness. The karma emitted from it has me beaming. The screen is nearly full of gorgeous tops that are thickening up the stems and putting on the flowers fast and heavy. There is not a single ill looking leaf. The ppms seem high, but that is where the plants are leveling out at. The smaller one is slightly lower, around 1500 ppm.. Between the two of them, they are drinking about 1.5 gallons a day. Today I did not top off fertilizer, only water. This lowered the ppms enough for me to add some Drip Clean. I'll be fresh water cycling to remove any salts in the next day or two.

I have been spending about 30 minutes a day working the screen top, to make sure every bud site has direct light. It isn't easy. The screen contains over 45 tops, many of them already 8"-12" above the screen. This will also be my first harvest where my fine Fiskar snips won't be sufficient enough to cut through the trunk at harvest time. 

I'll update with pics in a day or two. I don't want to hit my quota for uploads too soon. It seems that every day they are still stretching. I love my 600w HPS plus bulb and reflector.

Thanks for reading!!

​


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## redrum83420 (Feb 1, 2011)

looking amazing so far. cant wait to see that screen


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## two2brains (Feb 2, 2011)

thats one thing i love about the waterfarm. When you sit the seed in on the hydroton you can see the tap root growing and don't have to come back every hour and pace around wondering if the seed is going to come up lol


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 2, 2011)

two2brains said:


> thats one thing i love about the waterfarm. When you sit the seed in on the hydroton you can see the tap root growing and don't have to come back every hour and pace around wondering if the seed is going to come up lol


 I was nervous at first by just placing that little PE seed with its tiny taproot into the hydroton but she took off and is doing great.


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## Serapis (Feb 2, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> I was nervous at first by just placing that little PE seed with its tiny taproot into the hydroton but she took off and is doing great.


Well, now that I have some 2" net pots, I'll consider soaking seeds and using that method. If my seed falls too far down, I can always retrieve it by emptying the net pot out. I had done a seed on the hydroton once before and I was sure the seed was going to fall and end up in the res....


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## Serapis (Feb 2, 2011)

*Update:

* 
​ Not much new going on, other than growth and the number of tops and flowers. I got in some plant yoyos, you may see one in one of the pics. They are great for holding up heavy buds, or for training plants. I got 10 of them, and plan to give them a work out on the next scrog.

Everything in the nursery is going well. I have given up on the UFO Kandy Kush. The tap isn't getting any bigger. Why it doesn't look dead, it hasn't grown in 3 days, this is after over a week in the peat pellet. Cuttings are looking great, day 4. The bottom of the stems have turned brownish-green where they were dipped in Clonex. Tiny, almost microscopic, white bumps are forming. I suspect we'll be looking at roots by the weekend's dawn.


​


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## T.M.B (Feb 2, 2011)

looking good thought you would like to know,was at my local hydro shop the other day and we were talking nutes i told him my only nute was FNB and was loving it. He laughed and told me he has been doing the same for a while now with great success and also thought as those add ons were a waste of money no need,just like our man Scotty said all gimicks.


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## redrum83420 (Feb 2, 2011)

looking nice and healthy  their buddies up real good


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## Raylan (Feb 3, 2011)

Looking great man, feels awfully familiar to reading over ScottyBalls thread. Though this may be more exciting as the outcome hasn't been revealed yet. Very informative as well, taking notes! 
Sub'd. for sure.


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## VooDudeâ¢ (Feb 3, 2011)

Looking great dude! Can I ask how tall you expect it all to get? Including the waterfarm itself, which I understand is about 15inches high, how tall do you think it will all be by the time the big chop comes? I'm just trying to work out if I have enough room myself, I will only have about 5 feet or so..and that will have to include the light aswell, too small?


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## Serapis (Feb 3, 2011)

VooDude&#8482;;5261203 said:


> Looking great dude! Can I ask how tall you expect it all to get? Including the waterfarm itself, which I understand is about 15inches high, how tall do you think it will all be by the time the big chop comes? I'm just trying to work out if I have enough room myself, I will only have about 5 feet or so..and that will have to include the light aswell, too small?


I'm pushing it now as we speak. I have 14" clearance between my air cooled hood and my tops. I'm utilizing 7' of height. (almost). 

You can easily grow in 5 feet of space height wise, just use lower rated lamps or CFLs. With HID and 5' in height, you have to allow 12" from ceiling to bottom of hood (minimum), 16" from floor to top of farm. There is nearly 2.5 feet used up right there. Consider you need at LEAST 12" between tops and lamp, there is another foot, bringing us to 3.5' approx. 

That leaves you room to grow 18" tall plants. You could plan a vertical grow, or run a VERY tight scrog. That means having to add water to the reservoir through the screen, but it can be done. If you leave only 6" between top of farm and bottom of screen, that leaves you 12-18" roughly to allow your colas to grow. I'd do that, and go with Indica.


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## VooDudeâ¢ (Feb 3, 2011)

That sounds good man, I was planning on using CFL's and a scrog, and also growin Aurora Indica for my first grow, which I heard keeps pretty small anyway  Cheers for the very useful info once again!


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## Serapis (Feb 3, 2011)

You are better off with an HID lamp with scrog, because you have to be able to cover the entire canopy in light. CFLs have to be so close to the plant to do any good, that they cover very little space.


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## VooDudeâ¢ (Feb 4, 2011)

Serapis said:


> You are better off with an HID lamp with scrog, because you have to be able to cover the entire canopy in light. CFLs have to be so close to the plant to do any good, that they cover very little space.


More great adice! You are invaluable man. At the risk of sounding absolutly stupid here...with the HID lamps, do they need a ballast like MH and HPS lamps? Or do they just sort of use a standard screw socket going to a mains socket on the wall?


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## Serapis (Feb 4, 2011)

VooDude;5265964 said:


> More great adice! You are invaluable man. At the risk of sounding absolutly stupid here...with the HID lamps, do they need a ballast like MH and HPS lamps? Or do they just sort of use a standard screw socket going to a mains socket on the wall?


HID stands for High Intensity Discharge; there are two kinds, High Pressure Sodium, or HPS, and Metal Halide, which is MH. The acronym HID simply means both types. When someone references HID, they are referring to either or and or both types of lamps.

So to answer your question directly, yes, HID bulbs do need a ballast. 

There are no stupid questions but the ones that go unasked.


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## MsBBB (Feb 4, 2011)

Serapis said:


> HID stands for High Intensity Discharge; there are two kinds, High Pressure Sodium, or HPS, and Metal Halide, which is MH. The acronym HID simply means both types. When someone references HID, they are referring to either or and or both types of lamps.





Serapis said:


> So to answer your question directly, yes, HID bulbs do need a ballast.
> 
> There are no stupid questions but the ones that go unasked.


Some one referred to HID in a thread to me earlier in the week and I was not sure what it was. I looked it up and I learned the same things that you just answered for VooDoo. Sometimes a subject or question is asked that some think we should know. VooDoo is not the only one that will learn something from your answer. Thanks for being a good sport. I'll +rep when it lets me again


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## ldachosenonel (Feb 4, 2011)

What will you transfer the clones to rockwool or just hydroton in pots?


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## VooDudeâ¢ (Feb 4, 2011)

Serapis said:


> HID stands for High Intensity Discharge; there are two kinds, High Pressure Sodium, or HPS, and Metal Halide, which is MH. The acronym HID simply means both types. When someone references HID, they are referring to either or and or both types of lamps.
> 
> So to answer your question directly, yes, HID bulbs do need a ballast.
> 
> There are no stupid questions but the ones that go unasked.


Thank you mate, for not ripping it out of me lol. Lights are the one thing I haven't researched properly yet, only knowing what the acronyms stand for but not what they actually are lol. So that's the next thing on the list the look into. Thanks for the help once again


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## Serapis (Feb 4, 2011)

ldachosenonel said:


> What will you transfer the clones to rockwool or just hydroton in pots?


I'm leaning towards hydroton at the moment. I can simply add another gallon of water to my aero cloner and it becomes a DWC tank. My thinking is to go from a 2" to a 3 3/4" net pot. those will easily transfer to a waterfarm should I need to later. I have the shop lights to run a separate hydro nursery..... I may just set it up tomorrow.



MsBBB said:


> Some one referred to HID in a thread to me earlier in the week and I was not sure what it was. I looked it up and I learned the same things that you just answered for VooDoo. Sometimes a subject or question is asked that some think we should know. VooDoo is not the only one that will learn something from your answer. Thanks for being a good sport. I'll +rep when it lets me again


Thanks so much for the kind words and the rep. I'll take all it will let ya give.  lol


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## ldachosenonel (Feb 5, 2011)

So once a root system is developed on in the bottom bucket, you are actually filling the rez where roots are? Dosent it hurt the roots just sitting in water? And are you using any H202 in your water? Sorry for all the questions


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## Serapis (Feb 5, 2011)

ldachosenonel said:


> So once a root system is developed on in the bottom bucket, you are actually filling the rez where roots are? Dosent it hurt the roots just sitting in water? And are you using any H202 in your water? Sorry for all the questions


Don't apologize for asking a question. Questions are very welcome.

Roots need oxygen to survive. They find it in water, which is part oxygen. Water can be oxygenated with an air pump and a stone. By doing so, you are keeping oxygen in the water for the plant to utilize.

The waterfarms being used in this grow are brilliant by design. They use pumped air to create bubbles to lift water up a tube and into a drip ring. The water is oxygenated at that step. Then, it is dripped over porous clay pellets where it picks up oxygen from the surface contact as it drips down the pellets.

I do utilize H2O2 and add it about once every 4-5 days. I use 17.5% and usually in the amount of 5 ml per gal. My purpose for doing so is a healthy water tank. H2O2 is great for cleaning the water of bacteria and such. You certainly want to be careful with the stuff as it is caustic and can damage roots.


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## Alpazz (Feb 5, 2011)

Hi. Some great advice, concise & clear. I just wanted to mention that I had a Kandy Kush fem freebie also & it was a pig to get started, It did eventually take off once I'd adjusted the nutrient level to 0.7 EC (sorry, don't know what the equivalent PPM is) & put her in quite a cool room (70 C) under some 4000k CFL bulbs (3 x 24 Watt) all in a 6 inch pot filled with hydroton in a converted recycling bin (30 litre) using a 6 inch pancake airstone with about 10 litres of air per minute. She has recovered well, so it could be the strain, just don't give up on her yet.....If using 'Jiffy' pellets to germinate or cloning make sure they are Peat free as the acidity of Peat will not do your tender babies much good. Keep up the good work


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## ldachosenonel (Feb 6, 2011)

I have another question for you serapis, say you just did a rez change and you add your nutes and ph'ed water and the plant drank a gallon of the water the day after, do you just top it off with water or do you add more ph'ed water and nutes?


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## Serapis (Feb 7, 2011)

ldachosenonel said:


> I have another question for you serapis, say you just did a rez change and you add your nutes and ph'ed water and the plant drank a gallon of the water the day after, do you just top it off with water or do you add more ph'ed water and nutes?


That depends on what the ppm readings were before and after I added the water. For example; let's suppose last night before I went to bed, I topped off the tank and had the ppms in the reservoir at 1600 ppm. When I wake up, I see that she drank a lot of fluids. The PPMs read 2150 the next day! What happened!? In order for the ppms to go up, the amount of water went down or nutrients were added. Since we know we didn't add nutrients, we know that the plant took in more water than it did nutrients. Our PPM setting from the night before was too high. If we don't reduce the PPMs, we risk harming the roots and our plants. So we dilute the mix by adding fresh water, nothing else. Let's suppose after adding the water that the PPMs dropped to 1300. At that point, I'll leave it alone and see what the plant does with that level. If the following day, the ppms are still 1300, even though water level went down, we know we are right on the money with nutrient levels.


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## ldachosenonel (Feb 7, 2011)

I see I see thanks alot serapis


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## Raylan (Feb 8, 2011)

Any new pics? And how's the PE doing? I'm on day 17 from seed w/ her at the moment, and after about day 7 she exploded and has been growing nicely after I dialed a few things in. Thanks for the hypothetical PPM/water situation you gave above, helped clear up a little bit of the haziness I had left on the subject. Very informative, as always.


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## Serapis (Feb 8, 2011)

Raylan said:


> Any new pics? And how's the PE doing? I'm on day 17 from seed w/ her at the moment, and after about day 7 she exploded and has been growing nicely after I dialed a few things in. Thanks for the hypothetical PPM/water situation you gave above, helped clear up a little bit of the haziness I had left on the subject. Very informative, as always.


The PE is in the back up waterfarm, under 4 6500k t8 flouros 38w. She is looking OK. She kinda developed a little crook in her stem, just like Babylicious did when I put her in the waterfarm. I'll have to get a pic and show ya'll. It is only 8 days old, so it is root building. PH is a 6.4, but seed is in a peat pot, so that should even out.

The clones are doing great root wise on three of the cuttings. Two that I suspect were taken up higher on the plant are resisting rooting, while some have roots over an inch long!. The leaves are showing that they are about ready to be introduced to nutrients. I've begun foliar feeding. Water in fog bucket is at 300 ppm.

I've been thinking long and hard about it and I've decided what I'm going to do. The problem is, what to do with rooted clones in 2" net pots with bottoms cut out? I needed to be able to transition them for vegetation. I'm kind of limited on available wattage on my circuit and my nursery closet is hurting for space. I've decided to go with an ebb & Flow system from Hydro Farm called the Microgarden....

It is made from AB Plastic that is 1/4" thick. The top tray is 7" high and has an adjustable height on the flood level. This version has ( 5" pots for soiless medium. The bottom of the tray has raised grooves to keep pots out of draining water. The 10 gallon reservoir has a lid and a slide off port cover to gain access to the reservoir for testing or adding water and nutrient. The Drain bulkhead is reinforced for strength and recessed to prevent accidents.

The dimensions are 14"w x 31"L x 18"h

View attachment 1431591

And for light, HO T5 fixture with German reflective with 95% reflectivity and providing nearly 10,000 lumen for only 96 watts. I'll be using mixed spectrums, 6500k and 3000k. This light would be 5 stars IF it had dual on/off switches on alternate sockets, so you could turn off bulb 1 and 3 or 2 and 4 if you wished to reduce lumen or select a specific spectrum to turn on/off.

View attachment 1431592

I look at the cost as being an investment in not purchasing seeds in the future. This system should allow me to veg clones for just 2-3 weeks before they'll be ready for flowering in the tent.


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## Raylan (Feb 9, 2011)

Oh okay. How's the peat pot working for you? I started the PE directly in the hydroton after germination and her roots had already grown thru the cocotek liner and into the bottom reservoir after 13 days. I started a Skunk #1 at the same time (which ended up having to go), and when I removed it the roots had barely made it to the hydroton. I'll be germinating directly in hydroton from now on, even though I was very nervous when first attempting it.


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## Serapis (Feb 9, 2011)

Raylan said:


> Oh okay. How's the peat pot working for you? I started the PE directly in the hydroton after germination and her roots had already grown thru the cocotek liner and into the bottom reservoir after 13 days. I started a Skunk #1 at the same time (which ended up having to go), and when I removed it the roots had barely made it to the hydroton. I'll be germinating directly in hydroton from now on, even though I was very nervous when first attempting it.


I've always been a soil grower, until recently. I never believed in germinating in paper towels or soaking in a cup, etc. I've always used a seed starting mix. That doesn't work too well when you want to move it to a waterfarm. I didn't much care for rockwool and it's PH issues. I've had some strange results with Rapid Rooters, like upside down seedlings and shit. The closest thing to soil that I can transfer to a waterfarm is a peat pot in a 2 net pot. I 'may' try a soiless medium in net pots next.

I want to get away from purchased seeds except to get a new strain going in my garden. Once cloning is down to a science for me and the fog bucket, seeds won't be an issue much. I do plan on following Grumpy's journal on making my own female seeds. I also live in an area that has nice weather almost year round. I think I may incorporate an outdoor trellis into my garden and see about increasing my yieldage this summer/fall.


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## Serapis (Feb 9, 2011)

UPDATE:

Entering the 4th week of flowering.


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## redrum83420 (Feb 9, 2011)

looking good. hows the roots on the clones? you add any nutes yet?


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## Serapis (Feb 9, 2011)

redrum83420 said:


> looking good. hows the roots on the clones? you add any nutes yet?


I just now did, with an aeroponic set up. ppms are 400. I forgot to take PH, dam, one sec...

Wow, glad I checked, 4.5 ain't gonna do them cuttings any good is it? I have the bucket to 7.3 at the moment. I don't want to be basing and tripping at the same time back and forth. Going to let the bucket stabilize a bit or swing before I make another move. 4.5 was way too low. I think it will be under 7 in another few hours. Only time will tell if they make it. I did pull one, I needed the access for the air line. It had no roots yet, after 10 days, so it was done, even though it was lookin good. Always take more cutting than you plan to transition to vegging.

I have the timer set for 50 seconds on, 5 minutes off. The roots are now getting food, and Vitamin B. It takes about an hour for nutrient to travel an inch in a plant. If I don't see color in the leaves by morning, I'll bump the ppms up. Stinkbud writes of high ppms in aeroponics, but he is referring to aeromists. My droplets are a bit bigger, so I'm taking it slow. I don't have anything left to take cuttings off of for a bit. I really want some clones to introduce to my new Microgarden. I may have to build a new cloner.... the bucket is cool because it serves as an aero too, but once the ebb and flow is set up...... I'm going to be going through plants quicker and relying on cuttings. With my new T5 rig on the way, I think that I'll be able to fully veg in the closet and just use the tent for flowering. Perpetual harvests aren't far behind.


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## redrum83420 (Feb 9, 2011)

kool. i ordered a conversion bulb for my 400 watt mh mag ballast the other day. so i'll only need to buy a mag low bay mh from craigslist($25) once i have the room for a perpetual grow.


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## JimBro (Feb 9, 2011)

Did I miss how the Tangerine Dream is doing? I tried to germ a couple of mine, only one popped and it's the saddest looking specimen I have ever seen. I am only letting it live out of pity.

I noticed in your hypothetical earlier that you mentioned 1600ppm. Do you really go that high or higher? That sounds like a lot but your plants don't seem to mind.


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## Serapis (Feb 9, 2011)

JimBro said:


> Did I miss how the Tangerine Dream is doing? I tried to germ a couple of mine, only one popped and it's the saddest looking specimen I have ever seen. I am only letting it live out of pity.
> 
> I noticed in your hypothetical earlier that you mentioned 1600ppm. Do you really go that high or higher? That sounds like a lot but your plants don't seem to mind.


Yes, I have been at 1600 ppm. Currently I'm running around 1400 as it is what the plant seems comfortable with. I haven't done any Tangerine Dream yet, I have 5 of em, but they are still in the package. If I get one healthy and strong pheno out of 5 tries, I'll be happy. I've heard that they are slow to germinate too. Maybe Barney's needs to keep working on beter genetics and then get it locked in and stable.


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## Raylan (Feb 10, 2011)

Not to try and hi-jack or take away from your journal Serapis, but do you think you could hop over to my journal and take a look at my last update? I'm having some issues with the PE now and she only seems to worsen as I attempt to adjust things that could be causing the issue. You seem pretty knowledgeable, figured it couldn't hurt to ask.


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## tendran (Feb 11, 2011)

It all looks good Serapis. Have you considered Coco? Well, knowing you, you have considered it.. So perhaps a better question would be why aren't you using it? I'm liking it quite a bit. I've been laying it over a 1/2" - 1" bed of hydroton and the combination seems to create a really good bed of roots in the bottom 2-3 inches of the container. One thing that's bothering me is how easy people all say it is to clone in coco and I've had nothing but issues. I just purchased a bucket cloner setup similar to yours and I'm attempting to salvage the cuttings that weren't rooting (but were surviving) as well as 2 new cuttings in case the others don't take.. all blue mystics.. I'm liking this pheno even better than the first two I grew, even in veg it smells absolutely amazing. How well do you find the bucket cloner works? I like your idea of using netpots and adapting it to a dwc to veg it further.

Also just planted some jock horror / skunk #1 mothers. My setup is rather ghetto atm, gearing up for a sog this time. But I'm still playing with my LED's trying to create the right environment to properly utilize them. Once it's all dialed in I'll send some pics your way.

Oh, also I'm looking for a humidity dome to go right over the 5 gallon cloner bucket. I saw you mentioned a humidity dome of some sort, did you find something to satisfy that? I have humidity issues inside my cab and the plants do fine once established but clones don't like it one bit.


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## Raylan (Feb 12, 2011)

Any ideas now Serapis?


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## Serapis (Feb 12, 2011)

*PICTURES!!!!:

*​Hi guys and gals. I hope everyone is having a great Saturday, I am. I have coursework due for four classes and I'm putting it off til tomorrow and Monday, so I thought an update was appropriate.

First off, if anyone is interested, I'm writing a new journal on Barney's Farm Tangerine Dream. The new link is in my sig. (or will be very soon if you read this right after I post it) 

The Bubblelicious ladies are looking great. Babylicious gave me a brief scare, she started growing additional calyxes near the stem of the fan leaves. At first, I was thinking balls, but within 24 hours, they had pistils. 

View attachment 1437550 View attachment 1437551​
Today completes the 4th week of 12/12. These amazing plants still have 4-6 weeks to pack on growth. Let's consider the basic principle that a well done grow will easily net .5 grams per watt of light used. We are using a 600W HTG Supply HPS Plus bulb, which has like an extra initial 20,000k lumen, but rated at 600 watt. If we take 600 watts and multiply it times the expected average of .5 grams, we get 300 grams that this grow should easily net. That comes to almost 11 ounces.

Now, using Waterfarms AND SCOTTYBALLS' method, with a nice Secret Jardin, I'm going to go out on a limb here and make a prediction. Barring any unforeseen problems, I'm going to do 1 gram per watt. Thats correct. I think I can pull 21.5 ounces from this grow. I see several colas alone that have the potential in 6 more weeks to pack on that kind of weight. A proper diet is therefore essential.

I'm using Fox Farms solubles. Currently, we are on the Beastie Blooms phase. When we hit 4 weeks to go, we'll switch over to the Cha Ching add in that helps resin production and ripening of fruit. (they say fruit, we all know they really mean BUD) LOL... I really do believe strongly in these solubles. They have some excellent addition of essential metals and minerals. After you dissolve some in water, you can see little tiny metals flakes, about .05 mm in the water. It is some great stuff and I swear by it.

View attachment 1437555​ 
Other than that, I'm still sticking to the original game plan, using only General Hydroponics's Flora Nova Bloom. No other nutrient liquid solution at all. The PH has been great, and the plants have looked the best I have seen throughout an entire grow. I have not seen one burnt or starving leaf, at all, not one. A few of the tips did start to just show a bit of singe, so I have backed ppms down to 1400, until the plant tells me otherwise. I think at this stage, she'
ll settle in and start just packing on bud growth. I don't expect to see any new vegetative growth or stretching from this point on.

View attachment 1437558​
*Water water everywhere, not a drop to drink.....*

Where do I begin..... Having tap water with a ppm of 400 sucks balls. I have to purchase about 15 gallons of distilled water each week at a cost of nearly $1.00 gallon. If I was growing to sell, I'd consider it an investment; however, I look at it as an expense, a burden, if you will. The plants are drinking nearly 3 gallons between them, per day. I'm not having to add as much nutrients, as I am water. They are going through it fast, and I think it is because as more buds and leaves grow, the transpiration volume increases, and the plant is losing a lot of moisture to the atmosphere. A new portable Reef Master RO system is on it's way. I have already installed a 2.5" x 10" Carbon 5 micron prefilter in my bathroom shower, with a diverter valve from the shower head stem. The fittings are machine to pipe and I'm therefore able to use a standard garden hose for the connections. When I have everything set up, I'll take some pics and maybe make a quick guide for anyone that is interested in installing one. Buying jug water and having to haul it every week is a pain. Having neighbors watch you carry 15 gallons from the driveway to the house can be unsettling as well. It is time for an RO system.

In response I have turned the vortex fan up to move the air quicker, in an attempt to keep humidity down. The current RH in the tent is 48% and the ambient is 45%, so that is not bad at all. Overall I'm very happy with the grow. Babylicious germinated on Nov 20th of last year. Here we are, all this time later, and four to six weeks from harvest, depending on the pheno.



View attachment 1437540​
GOAL 21 ounces.....


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## JimBro (Feb 12, 2011)

Serapis said:


> I have coursework due for four classes and I'm putting it off til tomorrow and Monday


I used to be a procrastinator, but then I was taught a secret that really helped me get on the ball. I'll tell you all about it tomorrow.

Good luck with gram/watt thing. I'm pulling for ya. Man, I sure wish them pictures was scratch n' sniff.


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## Serapis (Feb 12, 2011)

Good God..... let me tell you... I just worked my screen, just tucking leaves here and there to make sure everyone is getting light, and I noticed on my hand, a bunch of glistening. upon closer inspection, simply by moving leaves, I had picked up resin on my finger tips. It was sticky and the smell is just intoxicating. I wish I could share it with you. I was mostly just handling leaf stems as I tucked, but my hand did brush leaf as well. I had to wash hands three times to was away the smell. Even though I mostly smell the soap now, I can still detect a hint of the MJ. This shit is going to be narcotic. The THC level on my last grow of this strain was unbelievable. It has to easily be over 20%, as it's lethargic.



JimBro said:


> I used to be a procrastinator, but then I was taught a secret that really helped me get on the ball. I'll tell you all about it tomorrow.
> 
> Good luck with gram/watt thing. I'm pulling for ya. Man, I sure wish them pictures was scratch n' sniff.


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## JimBro (Feb 12, 2011)

Nice. Mine are just now starting to put out a faint odor in week 3. Seems early, but I only have male Jack Herers to compare. I can smell the faint odor and see your pictures...adds a whole new dimension to bud porn.


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## tendran (Feb 13, 2011)

Hey, couple questions about your bucket cloner you had pictured previously. I just purchased the 8 site bucket cloner from HTG Supply that is quite similar to yours. You mentioned that it was a fogger of some sort inside your bucket and not a pump with a sprinkler type nozzle? And that they don't appear take in nutrients through the fog?


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## Serapis (Feb 13, 2011)

I put mine together myself. The fogger is designed to use for a visual effect with a small pond, or a scent bowl of water. It has been adapted for horticultural use. The fog mist it creates is very beneficial to roots, but the particle size is too small to effectively carry nutrients to the plant. My intent was to use the fog to get quick roots, then pull the fogger, drop in my pump and sprayers and add nutrients.

The system you got from HTG should contain a pump and some plumbing with ez cloner jets. That system should work well, just follow the instructions and ignore my modification for now. I was simply sharing something I wanted to try.


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## tendran (Feb 13, 2011)

Well it sounds like a good idea in theory, I believe you said you were aiming for a perpetual style harvest which is my goal as well so speeding up those roots would let me transplant that much sooner.

I'm at an in progress stage still but I threw up a quick thread if you wanna peek at what I've been working on. Thanks for the info.


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## two2brains (Feb 14, 2011)

I have basically the the same thing as you (water farm, same light, scrog etc) except im growing g13 blueberry gum. Hope i get close to 21 ozs. I'll be happy with 10+

I just finished week 1 of flower.


edit: I see you have 2 plants I'm doing 1. How long did you veg and what was the height when u flipped?


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## Serapis (Feb 14, 2011)

The plants are two weeks apart. The oldest, was germed on Nov 21 2010 and was introduced into the flowering tent on Jan 15th. As for the height, I'm not sure, the plant was well into being scrogged at that point. When the scrog was about 70% full, I flipped, and that was on Jan 15. Photoperiod is from 8-10 weeks for this strain. 4-6 weeks to go... I hope these waterfarms hold out, as right now, a two gal reservoir only holds about 1.3 gal at the moment.

I have cut back on nutes, to 1400, because I'm concerned with less space, eventually the plant will have a thirsty night and leave itself with a toxic bath. At this point, I believe a controller tower is needed. I'm having to top off twice a day. I don't mind, but I'm worried if I mess up, I could hose the yield on this plant. It's come a long way and only 4-6 weeks to go before the next stage and it's hazards and pitfalls. (curing)


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 14, 2011)

Hey how much did you pay for that reef Master RO filter, I have been debating on getting one.


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## Serapis (Feb 14, 2011)

I paid $149 for a 5 stage with a DI stage as a final. I ordered it with a garden hose attachment, so I can hook it up to my pre-filter and start making water asap. Now I have to decide on a storage method. The water flow is so slow you don't want to be getting water on demand, you want it making water before you need it. I'm thinking of using a 18 gallon Rough neck somehow...



jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Hey how much did you pay for that reef Master RO filter, I have been debating on getting one.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 15, 2011)

Wow How long do you think it would take to fill up a few gallon jugs?


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## Serapis (Feb 15, 2011)

If it is like any other RO system, probably about 2-3 minutes per gallon. I may try to either by a damn tank with built in float shut off or rig one.... I don't want to babysit an RO line... Maybe 18 gals at a time in a Rubbermaid?



jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Wow How long do you think it would take to fill up a few gallon jugs?


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## tendran (Feb 15, 2011)

Hey.. As far as your RO storage, what about a thermoelectric cooler mod to store your water? I've been toying with a concept that could potentially chill & circulate your reservoir, that would also be a great chilled storage for your r/o water.. the only problem is I don't actually have a need to do it or the money or space for such a project. If I had a larger scale grow or grow temp issues I would give it a try.

Kinda blurry rough sketch I did just for you, could build a drain hole on the lower part of the cooler with a short length of hose and empty a gallon at a time into jugs. My original theory was purely to chill and circulate reservoir water but I adapted the idea to incorporate r/o storage.


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## Serapis (Feb 15, 2011)

Something like that would work with a large water-control tower with reservoir. I have thought about daisy chaining my waterfarms, but I keep thinking about plants in different stages with different needs and put the idea on the back burner. I wouldn't mind a storage tank with a float valve that just held water. I might search for one. I have a huge shower and there is plenty of room in there for a mid size tank. I do have 20 gallon totes I could toss into shower pan and let them slowly fill.... Still working that one out. It''l be here in two days.


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## tendran (Feb 15, 2011)

So you're planning to have the r/o system in your bathroom and move full containers of water from room to room? Is the grow immediately adjacent to your bathroom?


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## Serapis (Feb 15, 2011)

Exactly. The grow tent is even on the same wall that the shower plumbing runs through. 



tendran said:


> So you're planning to have the r/o system in your bathroom and move full containers of water from room to room? Is the grow immediately adjacent to your bathroom?


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## Serapis (Feb 17, 2011)

We are coming up on the end of 5 weeks in 12/12. The aroma emanating from the Jardin is intoxicating when I have it open. It is hard not to stare in wonderment at over 50 colas, some stretching up over 12". The tips of the leaves are just beginning to show signs of too much nutrient, so we are going to cut it back a little. The reservoir is telling me that 1400 ppm is ok, but the leaf tips are saying otherwise. It may be sodium build up, so this weekend, I'll have the new RO unit and I'll be flushing these roots out real well. I plan on straight water and Drip Clean for 24 hours, then I'll remove and add fresh water again and bring the ppm to 1100 and see how she responds to that. Plant #2 was starting to show signs of a calcium deficiency, so I gave her a double dose of Cal-Mag in the last feeding. 

Plant #2 has a bud that has gotten to within 12" of the hood. It's leaves are bleaching and the tips are bent up, as if to escape the scorching sun. I was worried there for a bit, as the stretch had plant #2 looking as if it wasn't going to stop. It is about 2 weeks behind plant #1 and wasn't worked as long into the scrog. It still ended up with 8 main colas and each one is beautiful and beginning to look like donkey dicks. (use your imagination) LOL... They are long and putting on weight. I'll share some bud porn wit you guys this weekend.

UPS is arriving today with over 40 lbs of goodies. I'll be writing about that in my Tangerine Dream thread, linked in my signature below in orange. 

Have a great day!


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## bongmarley2009 (Feb 17, 2011)

@ Serapis, it looks like you are going to have some fat ass buds come harvest time. And I see that you made the choice to get the RO system which is good stuff. With RO, is there a chance that you won't need to use any pH up or pH down? And when did you start using cal-mag?


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## Serapis (Feb 17, 2011)

I didn't need to introduce Cal-Mag to this grow much until a few days ago. Plant number two started to get a severe case of Ca deficiency. The Flora Nova Bloom has it, but either something was locking it out, or it wasn't enough for this particular cycle in the plant's life.

I never have to use PH up, and I rarely have to down. Since these plants were past 3 weeks old, they have not needed a PH adjustment from me. My gallon of GH PH Down goes mostly unused.



bongmarley2009 said:


> @ Serapis, it looks like you are going to have some fat ass buds come harvest time. And I see that you made the choice to get the RO system which is good stuff. With RO, is there a chance that you won't need to use any pH up or pH down? And when did you start using cal-mag?


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## Serapis (Feb 17, 2011)

*RO is here:

*The Fed EX dropped off my stuff to me today and my RO system is currently making water! I'm so excited.. No more trips to the store to lug 15 one gallon jugs home and wondering if my neighbors are staring. I'm making water now, though it is a bit slow. I've adopted a method that should make it hands free for at least 6 hours. Take a look below....


View attachment 1446549 View attachment 1446551 View attachment 1446554 
Boy do I hate hard water. it makes things hard to clean. It stains bathroom tiles, caulking, grout, etc. When I bought this house, this particular shower was disgusting. It took over a full day to clean. It wasn't that it was filthy, it just had so much caked on calcium and other minerals and the tiles looked dull and stained. We almost replaced the shower it was so bad.

Our water was rated as one of the top 10 worst municipal water systems, yet our city (which owns it's own utilities) claims our water is pristine. Home that were built 15 years ago are being replumbed. EVERY hardware and grocery store carry huge bags of Morton salt for water softners right at the front door of their businesses. The water delivery guys here make a fortune, and our blind city officials claim the water is great... 

I'm now making water with a ppm of 003. Coming out of the tap, it was 380. Water problem solved!. I need to find a solution for the waste water from the membrane, that seems wastefull watching it flow down drain with it's valuable minerals.... I might have to rig up a collector for outside gardening.​ ​ ​


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## redrum83420 (Feb 17, 2011)

nice ro setup. i need one myself, my tap water is 450. i started melting snow for water to save some money  im broke lol.


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## Serapis (Feb 17, 2011)

I got tired of spending $15 a week or more and the security of hauling water is not good. I started going later in the evening and backing up to my garage door to unload there. I was getting paranoid about the amount of water my plants were going through. More than a gallon a day per plant, plus my other needs like soaking, MicroGarden, mother plants, etc... Now that i think about it, I was going twice a week and bringing home 12-15 gallons at a time. It was crazy.


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## bongmarley2009 (Feb 17, 2011)

Hell yeah Serapis! You have been on a roll recently getting all these new toys. You still looking to expand your op?


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## Serapis (Feb 17, 2011)

Yeah, I'm looking to do this for some time and I am interested in all types of hydro and soil grows. I'll be taking some specimens outside this Spring and work my magic there. I just picked up 5lbs of Seven Dust. I'm going to look at Trellises now. I'm going to try my hand at training a few plant along a trellis and see how that goes. I'm excited about potential yields I could be having this fall. I'm going with Mango, and Dankee Doodle, two big bud trees. It should be interesting. That will be a new journal.

Speaking of new journals, I have one going on with my Tangerine Dream and new MicroGarden and New Wave T5 lights. The link is in my sig if you are interested.



bongmarley2009 said:


> Hell yeah Serapis! You have been on a roll recently getting all these new toys. You still looking to expand your op?


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## Serapis (Feb 17, 2011)

On RO storage, I popped a top in the top of the tote and a siphon tube fits right down in it neatly. I just picked up 2 7 gallon water totes with spigots for camping. I'll be transferring water to them. With those, I can make 34 gallons of RO water. That takes about 5 hours. Thankfully I have nice water psi.

34 gallons should last me about 2 weeks between having to make more RO water. I think about 100 gallons of water went in the drain from the discharge line though.


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## Serapis (Feb 17, 2011)

I just finished up purifying 30 gallons of water. Everything is stored away, and my RO unit is drying in a empty tote. All told about 5.5 hours to clean up 30 gallons. This must be a 150 gal per day unit.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 19, 2011)

5 hours holy shit I had no clue that they were so slow.


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## Serapis (Feb 19, 2011)

Yeah man, they waste more water than they make.. The discharge line was pumping about twice the volume as the RO clean water line. When they say 150 gallons a day, they mean it takes 24 hours to filter 150 gallons.... Then if you have nowhere to put it, you are at mercy of waiting for it....



jimbizzzale67123 said:


> 5 hours holy shit I had no clue that they were so slow.


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## Serapis (Feb 20, 2011)

*PICTURES: Reservoir changeouts

PMM 1350
PH 5.5

*​Today was the day. I went to check ppms on my plants and plant# 2, which has had no new nutrients added in almost a week was still showing a ppm in the 1400's, yet her leaves are clearly showing a lack of Ca and Mg. I broke out the shop vac and drained both waterfarms. My 6 gallon shop vac turned off about half way through the second far, it was full... 6 gallons my ass. It might hold that, it was engineered to shut off at 4 gallons.

I sicked Evey last drop of H2o out of those things. Each farm is still holding 2.5 gallons of fresh water to reach the fill line on the tube. I was expecting it to be about 1.5 gal with the root ball and all. My balls ain't displacing much water....

Lacking a larger container for mixing, I blended each gallon of nutrients by hand. I took my time on the first gal, to make sure I hit my ppm mark... Below is what went into each gallon to achieve 1350 ppm....

1.5 tsp Flora Nova Bloom
.5 tsp Fox Farms Cha Ching
5 ml H2O2 @ 17.5% strength
5 drops Drip Clean

I used RO made from my new portable RO unit. The ppms were 0 and the ph was 7.8. After adding my nutrients, my ph was at 5.5. (Note: one gallon that I was mixing for the calcium def plant, I added a half tsp of Cal-Mag and reduced the Cha Ching by a 1/4 tsp.)

According to Nirvana, we have 3-5 weeks to go. This harvest will be done in stages. I really didn't get a chance to work plant #2 into the scrog much because it was 2 weeks behind. Her buds, while taller, aren't as filled in as the first plant. Also, I have many new growth tops that aren't getting much light at the scrog. I'm going to cut down ripe lollypops and leave the plants to continue flowering. I believe the potential is a few extra ounces. (Remember my goal of 21 ounces?  ) I'm going to squeeze these two for all their worth, because I do not have any plants ready for flowering. My Barney's Farm Tangerine Dreams are setting me behind. I started Vanilla Kush seeds today. I have about 6-7 weeks before I have plants ready for flowering a new scrog, so I'll let these two continue to ripen those buds, as long as the plants are producing. I may try a second veg, as the reservoirs are still holding 2.25 gallons of water.

Bud pics for your viewing pleasure!...



View attachment 1452091View attachment 1452092View attachment 1452093View attachment 1452094View attachment 1452095View attachment 1452096View attachment 1452097​


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## Serapis (Feb 23, 2011)

Due to lack of interest, there will be no more updates to this journal. Thanks to those that conversed and made it interesting.


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## redrum83420 (Feb 23, 2011)

well it has been nice watching your grow


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## bongmarley2009 (Feb 23, 2011)

Bongmarley2009 is all that matters. Keep it going for him.


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## auldone (Feb 23, 2011)

Serapis said:


> Due to lack of interest, there will be no more updates to this journal. Thanks to those that conversed and made it interesting.


2 months and 25 pages... You call that a lack of interest?


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## brummydave (Feb 24, 2011)

Can't believe you've called it a day. This journal has converted me to buying waterfarms, in the next few week when bubblegums are outta the way, was looking at ebb & flow before but all the information you've provided has changed my mind. I'd love to see the final outcome of your beasts as I can't believe all that's from just 2 plants + rep


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## Serapis (Feb 24, 2011)

auldone said:


> 2 months and 25 pages... You call that a lack of interest?


Major update with pics and no comments in 4 days. I'd consider that a lack of interest. 



brummydave said:


> Can't believe you've called it a day. This journal has converted me to buying waterfarms, in the next few week when bubblegums are outta the way, was looking at ebb & flow before but all the information you've provided has changed my mind. I'd love to see the final outcome of your beasts as I can't believe all that's from just 2 plants + rep


I'll post the final results when I can.


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## auldone (Feb 24, 2011)

Serapis said:


> Major update with pics and no comments in 4 days. I'd consider that a lack of interest.


While this is your thread and you will do what you will, I would like to point out that from the time you posted the update on 2-20 til your "white flag" post on the 23rd the time past was about 69 hours... Just under 3 full days. 

Me thinks that as a grower who has the patience to grow this herb could put some of that same good quality to this thread. 

This is a good thread, don't get so down so fast!

I'm not tryin to come at you like a dik, I'm just sayin...

Peace


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## Serapis (Feb 24, 2011)

I appreciate your comments and thoughts. I just feel as though the thread has had only 2 participants in it since Feb 17th. Let's keep it going and we'll see what happens.



auldone said:


> While this is your thread and you will do what you will, I would like to point out that from the time you posted the update on 2-20 til your "white flag" post on the 23rd the time past was about 69 hours... Just under 3 full days.
> 
> Me thinks that as a grower who has the patience to grow this herb could put some of that same good quality to this thread.
> 
> ...


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## redrum83420 (Feb 24, 2011)

i dont have many people reading along with my thread. but the couple that do, make it worth posting to me.


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## tendran (Feb 24, 2011)

I could ask you a lot more questions and have many a hypothetical conversation with you but so much of it would be incredibly off topic, because I know you hate that.. and I've seen what you're like when someone gets on your bad side. I love when I come across an old LED grow where you're trying to help someone and they tell you to gtfo of their thread based on the fact you put them in their place at some point in your time here on RIU. 

I really am just playing around. The grow looks good and just because I'm lurking quietly doesn't mean I don't enjoy the eye candy updates.. Though I have far more interest in grow room design than actually growing so I tend to spend most of my free time in that forum. I've got a lot of interesting ideas in this head, just the finances holding me back. I should really find some rich stoner investors instead of wasting my time working trying to save up for these projects. lol

Anyway if you still aren't gonna keep updating this after all the complaints, I look forward to the dry weight. Post before and afters from harvest day. If your TD thread dies because of Barney's failures, be sure and post whatever your new journal ends up on one of these threads so I can subscribe.


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## Serapis (Feb 24, 2011)

I'll update this thread.... if nothing else, maybe someone down the road can benefit from our discussions.



tendran said:


> I could ask you a lot more questions and have many a hypothetical conversation with you but so much of it would be incredibly off topic, because I know you hate that.. and I've seen what you're like when someone gets on your bad side. I love when I come across an old LED grow where you're trying to help someone and they tell you to gtfo of their thread based on the fact you put them in their place at some point in your time here on RIU.
> 
> I really am just playing around. The grow looks good and just because I'm lurking quietly doesn't mean I don't enjoy the eye candy updates.. Though I have far more interest in grow room design than actually growing so I tend to spend most of my free time in that forum. I've got a lot of interesting ideas in this head, just the finances holding me back. I should really find some rich stoner investors instead of wasting my time working trying to save up for these projects. lol
> 
> Anyway if you still aren't gonna keep updating this after all the complaints, I look forward to the dry weight. Post before and afters from harvest day. If your TD thread dies because of Barney's failures, be sure and post whatever your new journal ends up on one of these threads so I can subscribe.


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## auldone (Feb 24, 2011)

I'm following your thread. Have been for about a month when I decided to purchase Bubblelicious. I purchased the gear through Nirvana but have yet to recieve it. I am planning on doing 2 at a time under 1 250w HPS in soil and scrog'd. It's goin in a closet 2'dx4'wx6'h so 2 is all I think I can do. Oh and in 5 gal. buckets. 

This will be my first grow with seeds NOT from a bag of smoke!


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## Serapis (Feb 24, 2011)

You are in for a nice surprise. The strain is very easy to grow. It is highly resinous and the budtography is gorgeous!  I just coined a new one.  More pics this weekend. I'll start to focus on some close ups.



auldone said:


> I'm following your thread. Have been for about a month when I decided to purchase Bubblelicious. I purchased the gear through Nirvana but have yet to recieve it. I am planning on doing 2 at a time under 1 250w HPS in soil and scrog'd. It's goin in a closet 2'dx4'wx6'h so 2 is all I think I can do. Oh and in 5 gal. buckets.
> 
> This will be my first grow with seeds NOT from a bag of smoke!


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## auldone (Feb 24, 2011)

Serapis said:


> You are in for a nice surprise. The strain is very easy to grow. It is highly resinous and the budtography is gorgeous!  I just coined a new one.  More pics this weekend. I'll start to focus on some close ups.


I ordered fem'd seeds and then seen all these threads saying NOT to buy fem'd. So after goin through a small panic attack, I spent hours searching the boards looking for people who were unhappy and I was hard pressed to find any negative posts. If people had hermies, most felt that it was by their own doing and not genetics. 

How are the UFO freebies from Tude? I got a Female seeds White widow x Big Bud seed with my Plushberry order.


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## Serapis (Feb 25, 2011)

I've only attempted to germ two freebies, a Pineapple Express which is doing well today, and a Reserva Privada Kandy Kush that did not germinate. There were several posts of the RP UFO's being doa...



auldone said:


> I ordered fem'd seeds and then seen all these threads saying NOT to buy fem'd. So after goin through a small panic attack, I spent hours searching the boards looking for people who were unhappy and I was hard pressed to find any negative posts. If people had hermies, most felt that it was by their own doing and not genetics.
> 
> How are the UFO freebies from Tude? I got a Female seeds White widow x Big Bud seed with my Plushberry order.


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## Evo8Emperor (Feb 25, 2011)

Great looking buds there Serapis. I have the same jardin dr120 I believe it is. I use it for veg though buying a new 5x10x7 tent for flowering.

I've been growing some type of skunk from a buddy and just not impressed with the yield just letting the plants grow. I'm going to try and scrog them for one last attempt for a better yield before finding a new strain hopefully.

I ordered seeds from nirvana about 3 weeks ago now spent like 100$ on blackberry, papaya, and aurora indica. Didn't get a package after all this time so I emailed them and told them. They get back to me and say sorry and they liked to show me a favor of good will and send me out only two strains of my choice instead of the three I bought originally.

I had a little pissing match trying to make it a point I just spent that much money and for them to have spend only 10$ to send me a new package there making me lose out. I wasn't trying to be an ass because I didn't want them to not send anything but I was like the seeds cost nothing to you guys so what's the difference if I get my original 15 seeds.


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## Serapis (Feb 25, 2011)

I'd stick with the request for what I paid for. If they want to develop a bad name for themselves, they they can start telling people to bad so sad when packages never arrive. If that is their new policy, keep orders to a single strain per order. You may still get your original seeds, customs is very slow right now due to heightened terror threat levels.

The Blackberry and Papaya are great strains. You'll be very satisfied.


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## Crystal Toy (Feb 25, 2011)

Serapis, Please don't go, I for one have learned alot from your grows. I may not post often but I do read your posts daily to see how you're grows are doing, i'm sure i'm not the only one that's just there reading and not posting much, BTW sorry to see the TD did not work for you, hope tude wakes up and starts sending new beens to replace the duds that were sent out.Good Luck and i hope you stay, much respect to you and many others who have helped many including myself.


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## Serapis (Feb 25, 2011)

I'm not leaving, I was just going to abandon updates in this thread. I've decided to continue with it due to the requests from some of the readers that were not posting, like yourself. I didn't even stop to think that maybe people were reading and not posting. I'm not giving up on TD yet, it's only been two weeks ;p


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## Evo8Emperor (Feb 25, 2011)

I ended up telling them to just send the blackberry and papaya. They didn't want to hear it and I couldn't really be an asshole because at that point I'm sure they wouldn't send anything.

So I won't be ordering from there again. That and like ya said order in seperate orders. I learned my lesson.


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## Serapis (Feb 25, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear that about Nirvana, as they have some nice strains and they guarantee germination. You picked the right 2 out of 3 in mo though


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## Serapis (Feb 25, 2011)

I just cut off a leaf from the top of a plant. The leaf was loaded with sugar. My purpose of taking the leaf was to study the trichomes and try to determine how we are doing. Near the stem, there is virtually little room left for any new trichomes. They are packed pretty tight. About 95% of them are clear. Roughly 4.9% are cloudy and I spotted about one amber head per 2-3k. I'm going to harvest a little bit sooner than I normally do with this strain. In the past, I've allowed it 9-10 weeks to flower to develop that rich golden color of amber. The high is narcotic, induces couch lock and lack of motivation. While I do enjoy this strain before bed, I don't like to smoke it in the middle of the day unless I have absolutely nothing to do.

By harvesting with the majority of the trichomes clear, I can assure that I'm not contributing to a higher CBN count. That is what gives the burned out feeling, like a pot hangover. CBNs counter the effect of the psychoactive THC. They act as a balance. If you allow the trichomes to turn amber, the THC has degraded, and produced CBNs. I changed my line of thinking after reading the March issue of High Times. I will be practicing selective harvesting. I will only take ripe buds. Buds that look like they might still develop will be given more time to do so. March 5th will be the end of 8 weeks of 12/12.

I'm beginning to wish I hadn't gone out on a limb and predicted 21 ounces. Not long after I made that post, plant #2 started to develop signs of a deficiency. She has had her res changed out twice and her condition continues to deteriorate. This is the same plant that struggled to keep up with growth in the early stages. She appears to be deficient in calcium and magnesium, so it isn't PH, as those micro nutrients are on opposite sides of the PH chart for hydro growers. I've had her to 1400 ppm and she goes for days just wanting fresh water top offs without much difference in the ppm. I think I have two phenotypes going. One is healthy as hell, and will easily do 10-14 ounces on her own. That is Babylicious, and she has about 65-70% of the ScrOG to herself. The second plant did not branch much and the main stems are much taller and stretched. The buds don't look like they are going to fill in. The top sun leaves are damaged from calcium and mag shortage. 

I have tried to get the plant back on track with a res change twice. I was sure that the cal-mag in the mix was used up, but I was still reading 1300 ppms. The new water and mix was brought to 1400. There are no burnt tips. The PH has fluctuated, but not much. I'm writing it off to it being a weaker phenotype that got in with my beans. If it gives me 4 ounces I'll be ecstatic. One of the 5 clones made it and has reverted to veg. I'm hoping it came off of the first plant, for obvious reasons. I didn't label. At the time, I thought I had two strong plants. I learned a lesson there and will always mark clones in the future.

View attachment 1461507


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## auldone (Feb 25, 2011)

Nice collection of trichromes. Seeing that just makes me that much more excited to grow this strain.

I can't wait for my beans....


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## Serapis (Feb 25, 2011)

Anyone who has grown this strain will tell you that you made an excellent choice when you picked them up. I will tell you up front, finding a pink or actual bubble gum flavor pheno is rare. In the 10-15 seeds I have gone through, I haven't ran across it yet, but I've read about it and know it exists. Supposedly, there is a phenotype that will give you pinkish buds, like the old Topps bubble gum. While the flavour is sweet and intoxicating, It doesn't remind me or my buddies of bubble gum.



auldone said:


> Nice collection of trichromes. Seeing that just makes me that much more excited to grow this strain.
> 
> I can't wait for my beans....


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## auldone (Feb 25, 2011)

Do you grow reg or fem? Most told me to buy fem do to my grow area. 

I am looking forward to something different than what I can get now. The bagseed that I grow is good, but it's the same bud that I buy so it's still the same, for the most part. I think he rushes the dry and cure. 

And one last thing about the thread.... You give great explaination in what you do. Most don't.


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## Serapis (Feb 25, 2011)

Thanks for the compliment. I try to explain what I'm doing in some detail, so I have something to write about.  I enjoy keeping a journal and interacting with other RIU members. I started with strictly fem seeds, but now that Spring is coming, I'm germinating 10 regular Mango seeds and 10 Dankee Doodle seeds. My goal is to get one good mother from each. Everything else will go outside and I may even seclude a male in another room of the house and let it flower. I'd like to get some seeds for future projects.

Bag seed is great for learning to grow, just don't expect great genetics to pop out at ya.



auldone said:


> Do you grow reg or fem? Most told me to buy fem do to my grow area.
> 
> I am looking forward to something different than what I can get now. The bagseed that I grow is good, but it's the same bud that I buy so it's still the same, for the most part. I think he rushes the dry and cure.
> 
> And one last thing about the thread.... You give great explaination in what you do. Most don't.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Feb 25, 2011)

Good to here you still gonna post, I want to see Bubblelicious when its done. Nirvana left a very sour taste in my mouth after I had two PPP with my Red Diesil and my Sharks Breath, well one of the PPP's poped a giant nutsac and pollinated the shit out of everything, and then the PPP's got all fickle with the nutrients and they had crazy nutrient problems and riddled with seeds. What a horrible time that was, but the Red Diesil was amazing even after getting pollinated.


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## Serapis (Feb 25, 2011)

LOL.... nice to see ya again buddy. I hope when I start dabbling in breeding that I have the luck you do producing pollen.


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## SWUSAZ (Feb 25, 2011)

Thank's for hanging Serapis as I personaly have taken your advice and things are happening as you have stated throughout your posts. By the way I wish I had the space that you have and could make it work as well as you do.


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## Serapis (Feb 26, 2011)

I have a dilemma and I'd appreciate some feedback......

The buds directly under the 600w HPS lamp look ripe. The pistils are turning and about 30-40% of the trichs are cloudy. I'm contemplating taking a few of the tall buds directly under the light that have the same traits. I checked trichomes yesterday on a leaf not under the light and most of the trichs are clear. The strain is supposed to be 8-10 weeks and we are just starting week 7 now. The plants were mature and showing flowers when I started 12/12. Can these center buds possibly be done already? Pics coming in a few....


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## redrum83420 (Feb 26, 2011)

nice looking buds dude. id cut just the ones that are done, when they finish that is. thats what i plan on doing atleast. harvest the plant in 2 or maybe 3 parts. that way the lower buds get some more light to finish.


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## auldone (Feb 26, 2011)

As sung by Guns-n-Roses.... JUST A LITTLE PATIENCE.... 

Why not wait until they ARE ready? There is no reason to cut them is there?? Maybe wait it out for a few more days??? A week????


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## nickyp (Feb 26, 2011)

Those center/more mature buds look like they still have a ton of weight potential, you'll be sacrificing a few o's if your not patient!


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## Serapis (Feb 26, 2011)

The problem is, if I wait for all of the buds to be ready, the large colas in the middle will have gone amber by then, losing a lot of THC. It's not a matter of patience, I have two jars full from my last harvest.  I just don't want my THC turning to shit. I like the selective harvesting idea so far... I don't know what else to do...



auldone said:


> As sung by Guns-n-Roses.... JUST A LITTLE PATIENCE....
> 
> Why not wait until they ARE ready? There is no reason to cut them is there?? Maybe wait it out for a few more days??? A week????


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## Serapis (Feb 26, 2011)

The last thing I want to do is chop early. Again, it's not a matter of patience. I'm not a 19 year old dude dying to get high... I'm a grown up, have two jars of fine smoke beside me.  I guess maybe I wasn't clear earlier, I'm afraid of losing thc if the buds are left to develop. At least 50% of the trichs are already cloudy here in week 7, some have started to go amber. Pistisl are receeding, but this strain has some staying power if you let it, she'll regen calyx and pistils if you let her and never look ripe, but the THC will be degraded if you let the flowers go too long.

I'm going to try and get a microscope shot of the trichomes up.



nickyp said:


> Those center/more mature buds look like they still have a ton of weight potential, you'll be sacrificing a few o's if your not patient!


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## Serapis (Feb 26, 2011)

Looking at that specimen, I'm going to wait.

View attachment 1463709


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## auldone (Feb 26, 2011)

Serapis said:


> The problem is, if I wait for all of the buds to be ready, the large colas in the middle will have gone amber by then, losing a lot of THC. It's not a matter of patience, I have two jars full from my last harvest.  I just don't want my THC turning to shit. I like the selective harvesting idea so far... I don't know what else to do...


 If the trichs were 30-40% cloudy when you last checked the colas you want to cut, why not wait 2 or 3 days? I get your point about the amber trichs, I just took a 12" cola off my tallest plant @51 days of flower. The trichs are about 50/50 clear/cloudy. I now have my light a foot closer to the other 2 girls and the topped girl which is a bonus of taking this spear...


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## Serapis (Feb 26, 2011)

There is a new school of thinking that if the trich's are allowed to go cloudy, they are in the process of losing potency. The March HT had an article that the guy said testing has been done and they found clear trichomes are the most desired, we should not be waiting for more cloudy trichs or amber for that matter.


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## auldone (Feb 26, 2011)

So would that mean that plants could be ready as early as 4 or 5 weeks? Hmmm....

One of my plants is no where near ready... I should go pluck a nug and test this on my own....


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## Serapis (Feb 26, 2011)

You'll want to still stay as close to schedule as you can.... Just don't let them get all milky.


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## auldone (Feb 26, 2011)

Yeah, all 3 of my girls are bagseed. 2 are more sativa based off the thin, long fingerlike leaves. The one I topped is an indica. All 3 went into 12/12 at the same time, Jan 6th. The indica looks like it will ready in about 2 weeks if I had not taken the top, But now, who knows, I will just watch and see...

The 2 sativa-ish are farther out though 1 that has more indica bud building traits is starting to change it's hairs. The other is really looking like it will go for another 4-6 weeks. really green, dark green, and all the hairs are as white as can be. No swelling to really speak of. But it will be coming down with the other in 2-3 weeks so I can get my Bubblelicious goin....


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## bongmarley2009 (Feb 27, 2011)

@ Serapis: I'm definitely interested in seeing how your final product smokes because I lurked around that thread about harvesting earlier. If it's indeed true and you are happy with your results, then I reckon it calls for some celebration. Can't complain about harvesting earlier!


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## Serapis (Feb 27, 2011)

I pulled a lot of leaves off the buds today, mostly the sun leaves from the lower portions of the buds to open up air flow and light. I sense that many of the buds are at prime potency now and I'll have to keep an eye out for degrading THC in the resin heads. The buds that look done are beautiful, but some other readers are encouraging me to let em go longer, so I am, for a few days at most for the center buds directly under the light. The pistils are receding and the calyxes are swollen like crazy. Some of them have dropped resin onto the lower leaves and it has turned dark, almost like oil. I know Nirvana says 8-10 weeks, but I seriously believe that after 7 weeks of 12/12, the ones directly under the light are ready.



bongmarley2009 said:


> @ Serapis: I'm definitely interested in seeing how your final product smokes because I lurked around that thread about harvesting earlier. If it's indeed true and you are happy with your results, then I reckon it calls for some celebration. Can't complain about harvesting earlier!


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## OldGrowth420 (Feb 27, 2011)

you've got it, listen to your intuition on this one.

sorry if i ruffled your feathers earlier, peace & love


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## Serapis (Feb 27, 2011)

LOL, no man, I love to debate and I hold no grudges... I think if more topics had both sides presented in an intelligent way, we would all be better off. I enjoyed the discussion.



OldGrowth420 said:


> you've got it, listen to your intuition on this one.
> 
> sorry if i ruffled your feathers earlier, peace & love


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## bongmarley2009 (Feb 27, 2011)

@ Serapis: 7 weeks into flower and it definitely sounds that the BUBBY's might be ready. I always love it when the pistils start to recede and the calyxes swell. Do you expect to harvest before week 8?


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## Serapis (Feb 27, 2011)

as much as I don't want to, yes. I expect that I'll have to start before completion of 8 weeks... I don't know if hydro made it faster, but they are getting rather done.



bongmarley2009 said:


> @ Serapis: 7 weeks into flower and it definitely sounds that the BUBBY's might be ready. I always love it when the pistils start to recede and the calyxes swell. Do you expect to harvest before week 8?


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## SCOTTYBALLS (Feb 28, 2011)

Looking good serapis! Yeah keep your eye on them krystals... I like to harvest a tad early then most cause I feel I get a better head high when I do.. Its really a personal prefrence kinda thing thoe..


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## Serapis (Mar 4, 2011)

Today is chop day. They have been in the dark now for 3 days to maximize resin production. I'm going to chop while they are in the dark so the leaves don't call down to the roots and ask for sugars for photosynthesis. I'll get some pictures of chop and dry for those of you that are interested and I'll be posting a dry weight total in about a week, after I start the cure. 

Ona Crystals and Gel are out, and the Ozone generator is now on 30/30 to help combat the odor while the produce is out of the tent and sans a scrubber.  I reached in the other night and turned on my green bulbs and stared at them, they are gorgeous and shiny. I squeezed a bud and it was hard and sticky. My fingers were shiny and sticky. The smell lasted at least for 45 minutes, because I refused to wash it off.


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## redrum83420 (Mar 4, 2011)

congrats dude  cant wait to see some pix


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## buddha113 (Mar 4, 2011)

awesome man can't wait to hear the final weight

i've been following along with this grow since the beginning 
i have to say this, scotty's and jim's grow have been the best journals i've followed
looked forward everyday to seeing the progress

hope you get the weight you wanted and gl with the vk in your other journal


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## VooDudeâ¢ (Mar 4, 2011)

Congrats mate, sounds like you'll have some great bud  Can't wait to hear weight and see pics!


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## WakethBaketh (Mar 5, 2011)

Congrats on the harvest can't wait to see how it turned out!


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## Serapis (Mar 9, 2011)

Thanks to everyone that stuck this thread out. The tent currently has one Pineapple express in it. I've dried the buds from my harvest enough that they can be jarred and cured. The total dry weight of the grow is 1100 grams, or 39 ounces. Only 14 of those are bud. That makes 25 ounces in trim, leaf and pop corn buds. I plan on making a ton of cannabutter. 

Lessons learned: Even though I thought I did a good job at defoliation, 2 full paper grocery bags full of leaves at harvest is not good. I'll need to do a much better job of getting light to the plant. I feel that had I been aggressive, early on, I might have taken 1.5 pounds in buds. A lot of the tops that did make it through the screen had airy buds. There were too many leaves up top, blocking sites. This is by far my best harvest yet, however I still feel badly about it, as the next one is easily 9-10 weeks away. I have 2 paper bags full of trim and pop corn buds and 4 half gallon mason jars stuffed full of buds.

Til the next harvest...


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## redrum83420 (Mar 9, 2011)

damn dude nice harvest. thats allot more then im going to get out of my plants. how far along is the pineapple express?


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## Serapis (Mar 10, 2011)

The PE is about 4 weeks along from seed. It stands about 7" tall and is branching it's ass off, since I FIMed her twice already. All fan leaves blocking branches were removed.


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## Serapis (Mar 10, 2011)

*Update:

*Please feel free to continue posting in this thread if you wish, I'll remain subscribed and will answer any questions. I went out and bought 4 lbs of butter last night, wow has the cost of butter went sky high. Almost $5 a lb for Land o' Lakes, so I stuck with store brand, same fat content.  I've also ordered some mini cupcake foils and some silicone brownie bite molds to make treats. I currently have 3 patients that desire edibles and I have 2 pounds of leaf with sugar on it, and several ounces of sugar leaf trim and pop corn buds.

I also bought some chocolate and white chocolate glaze kits for dipping candies and brownie bites in. I also have some maraschino cherries and dried strawberries for toppers. I intend to give out virgin treats this Xmas, so practicing on my medicinal treats will prepare me nicely. My brownies get rave reviews (they knock me on my ass), but I want to be able to make them look even better and the mini foil cups will have better portion control, as only 1 tblsp of batter goes into each one.

Below is a pic of my curing jars, well, some of them. I wish I had filled all 12 up. After 3.5 days hanging on a string in a dark room, I took all of the bud and placed it in jars and capped them. Inside each jar is a hygrometer. After 12 hours in the jars, the hygrometers were reading about 71-73% RH, so I removed all the bud and placed it on a collapsible dry net for 12 hours. After that, it went back into the jars and the reading is a steady 68%, so it's in the jars for good now. I just have to start a burping routine.

Just for those that want to know how the final days went down, I turned off the lights and I increased Vortex exhaust fan speed with 4 days to go. I quit giving nutrients one week before chop and I quit giving new water 4 days out. The buds were feeling half way dry when I was stripping off the leaves. They were light and the stems were already hollow and dry. I trashed about 4 sets of examination latex gloves while working with the buds. I poured the newspaper I worked over into my kief box and I saw a lot of kief go in the box.

Total weight was almost 40 ounces, of that, 14 was bud and 26 was trim, leaf and pop corn buds. Most of the leaf came from the top canopy, as the lower was defoliated twice, so it has lots of resin heads that I intend to extract. I don't have bubble bags yet, and I don't want to buy them when I can do butter just as easily. I enjoy the break from smoking my medication and eating it is different. I'll post some pics of the sweets I make right here in a week or two.


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## Serapis (Mar 10, 2011)

Forgot to mention, those are half gallon mason jars stuffed with buddage...


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## gumball (Mar 10, 2011)

Great grow Serapis! You sound like quite the chef, all very yummy. I am sure your patients will be very happy!  

Wouldnt that much trim make more than 4 lbs butter, or are you doing bubble, oil, or extracts with it too?


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## redrum83420 (Mar 10, 2011)

tasty looking jars. good job


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## Serapis (Mar 10, 2011)

I only bought 4 pounds of butter because of the price. I may go get a bottle of 151 tomorrow to do some alcohol tincture as well. $5 a lb for butter was a rude awakening. I spent over $300 in last 2 weeks building a garden and raised beds in my yards for plants. Glad I did. Tomatoes go for nearly $5 a lb here as well. I can buy a tomato plant at Lowes that is 4 weeks old and has flowers on it for less than the price of a single tomato. It seemed like a no brainer. 

My goal is to use about a 1/4 oz of good bud or sugar leaf trim or pop corn bud per lb of butter and about an oz - 2 oz of leaf per lb depending on trich counts on leaf. Theoretically, I could make about 16 lbs of cannabutter, but I'm not going to, as I'll have more new trim in 7-8 weeks, and so on... so I' always have something going on. None of my patients have been introduced to tinctures yet, but that is going to be changing with all this trim sitting here.

My goal next time is to avoid so much damn leaf. I'm going to get more aggressive on defoliating. I easily had about 15 tops that came out worthless for smoking because they didn't get enough light to form tight buds. I had some tops with stems as thick as 1/4" with crap for bud... I blame that on me... I did a great job of filling screen with veg and I dropped ball in flower. I should have kept taking leaves throughout flowering. Next time I will.


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## redrum83420 (Mar 10, 2011)

sounds like a good plan. ive been thinking about making some tincture but i wanted to make non alcoholic 1's. so i think im going to try a vegetable glycerine tincture.


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## embry928 (Mar 10, 2011)

nice grow i love that bubblelious my favorite from nirvana


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## tendran (Mar 10, 2011)

I would do all tincture personally, or mostly at least.. You can add drops to any food or drink without ingesting all that butter. Butter hey, to each their own. lol. In your shoes I might do enough butter to bake a huge batch of vanilla bean cookies (then take some of the vanilla bean husks that are left and stick it into a jar of the vanilla kush you're about to grow when you're curing it.. infuse it with a little more UMPH! Works for sugar and coffee grounds, should for weed too. In fact I believe I'm gonna try that with a small batch of my next harvest/purchase and see how it comes out. Mmmm.. Gonna have to go order some of those soon.. lol


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## Serapis (Mar 10, 2011)

It's a lot easier to justify expenses when I can offer back something like brownie bites or candies that are medicinal. I like the idea of a tincture for me, but my patients have expressed desires for edibles, not drops. It was hard enough getting my Dad to allow me to treat his arthritis as it is. One of my other patients prefers sweets because his wife will no longer bake, so I bake him brownies. Another loves the brownies, but says they are too strong. She gave me the idea of individually decorated brownie bites.

So while I agree with you on tincture, I currently have 2 lbs of butter and about a half z of popcorn buds cooking in my crock pot.


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## redrum83420 (Mar 10, 2011)

can you take some pix and explanations of how you make your cannabutter, candy's, and tinctures? im very interested if your willing you post it.


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## VooDudeâ¢ (Mar 11, 2011)

Damn man, that still looks like a lot of bud to me lol, I'm sure your patients will be more than happy with what you make them, you know what you're doing lol.

Are you still going to post the guide on the water curing? I've been dying to see how that works


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## Serapis (Mar 11, 2011)

I apologize, I couklda sworn I posted on that. Here is a thread I participated in where i provide the steps and some detail. Someone else has done a pictorial guide if you search for it.

https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/411821-water-curing-anyone.html


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 11, 2011)

Hey serapis, Id love to hear more about your tincture recipe i tried making some with everclear. And it didn't come out too well.

So I made a bunch of bubble hash, im hurting right now though I had my tonsils out Wednesday and fuck am in some serious pain.

I just cant wait to heal up so I can smoke. It sucks having all this hash and dank bud and being bored to death and in the most pain I have ever been in and all I have is liquid vicodin I barley even feel.

And I hate opiates.


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## Evo8Emperor (Mar 11, 2011)

Hey Serapis nice harvest though. What number harvest is this for you ?

I'm in the same boat as you trying to learn and maximize my yield. I've got a scrog going now with this shit ass skunk and I'm going to see how that goes for now.

But I finally got my seeds in from Nirvana today. I was happy. Wasn't the first set of three I ordered but the second set of the two they would only resend of my choice. But their already in peat pellets to get started.


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## chb444220 (Mar 12, 2011)

wow man. vedy nice vedy nice. =) I currently have Nirvana Bubbleicious veggin.. only 2.5 weeks old but theyre growing very quicly. =) im hoping they turn 1/2 as nice as your did. how is the taste/smoke (if youve tried any yet) ive heard sum ppl say they actually can taste a hint of bubblegum.. and then other just say its sweet.. thats it. cant wait to flower mine. ive been wanting to grow this strain for a very very long time. still wanna try sum blackberry as well


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## Serapis (Mar 12, 2011)

Dude, take some of that bubble hash and make you some quick tincture. 1g of hash, 2 oz of 151 or Everclear. Place everclear and hash in a pint sized jar, no top. Set it in a pan of water on the stove top. SLOWLY bring the temperature of the everclear up to 170 degrees. Have a glass of cool water nearby in case you need to quickly cool the bath down, cause once Everclear hits 175 degrees, it's gonna boil, vape, blow. You have to have a candy or deep fryer thermometer. Cook the mixture down to about half the liquid you had when you started, pour cool water in bath and remove pan from heat. The hash should of totally dissolved. It should be stored in a dark glass container, and a dropper should be used to dose.



jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Hey serapis, Id love to hear more about your tincture recipe i tried making some with everclear. And it didn't come out too well.
> 
> So I made a bunch of bubble hash, im hurting right now though I had my tonsils out Wednesday and fuck am in some serious pain.
> 
> ...


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## Serapis (Mar 12, 2011)

I don't think it smells or looks anything like bubblegum, but that is just me I guess. It is a sweet tasting smoke however and the buzz is lethargic. Couch Lock heaven. The plant stretches like mad first 2 weeks of flowering. You can go as long as 10 weeks with flowering, if you want to take the time to develop the trichomes and allow the calyxes to fully swell. I've had it ready in 7 weeks in hydro, and 10 weeks in soil. I am currently rooting 5 cuttings from my sole Mom plant for my next grow. I have a mist maker fogger running 24/7 in a 5 gal bucket with 2" inserts cut out of bucket top. I get roots everytime, but trick is to know when to up nutrients in the fogger, or switch over to aeroponics once the roots can take in nutes on their own.



chb444220 said:


> wow man. vedy nice vedy nice. =) I currently have Nirvana Bubbleicious veggin.. only 2.5 weeks old but theyre growing very quicly. =) im hoping they turn 1/2 as nice as your did. how is the taste/smoke (if youve tried any yet) ive heard sum ppl say they actually can taste a hint of bubblegum.. and then other just say its sweet.. thats it. cant wait to flower mine. ive been wanting to grow this strain for a very very long time. still wanna try sum blackberry as well


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

Serapis said:


> Dude, take some of that bubble hash and make you some quick tincture. 1g of hash, 2 oz of 151 or Everclear. Place everclear and hash in a pint sized jar, no top. Set it in a pan of water on the stove top. SLOWLY bring the temperature of the everclear up to 170 degrees. Have a glass of cool water nearby in case you need to quickly cool the bath down, cause once Everclear hits 175 degrees, it's gonna boil, vape, blow. You have to have a candy or deep fryer thermometer. Cook the mixture down to about half the liquid you had when you started, pour cool water in bath and remove pan from heat. The hash should of totally dissolved. It should be stored in a dark glass container, and a dropper should be used to dose.


I would but I can barley swallow my own saliva at this point, eating a little cup of yogurt is like a 30min cage fight of pain.

My Dr. kept going on and on about how bad it was going to be, I thought the issues I had with my tonsils in the past would have toughened me up.

No such luck, I have stuff to look forward too though. I just started growing some Magic Mushrooms a month ago and I have a few done, hopefully I get some more and by next Sunday I will be flying off to space.

Talk about hobbies mycology is where its at, even if you dont like magic mushies grow some edibles this is so much fun I definitely caught the mycology bug.


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## redrum83420 (Mar 12, 2011)

hell yea mycology is fun


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## bongmarley2009 (Mar 12, 2011)

@ Serapis: Congrats on your biggest harvest yet! My buddy just got a White Widow clone so that's the next project. After reading your final conclusions, I told him to not be afraid to be more aggressive with the growth above the screen during flower to allow more light penetration. Now do you think fim or topping is better for SCROG? Last grow he topped the plant when it reached the screen after I had told him to follow Uncle Ben's method for 4 tops which is done when your plant has 5-6 nodes.


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## Serapis (Mar 12, 2011)

I prefer FIM for SCROG and the reason is, I get branches at every node. If I top, I get 2-4 mains, but little branching, or hit an miss. I did top that one, and i think it hurt the yield. I'm currently vegging a Pineapple Express and I'm early on with LST FIM and defoliation.... check out my baby after I worked her today...

View attachment 1490190View attachment 1490191View attachment 1490192


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## Serapis (Mar 12, 2011)

great thing about alcohol based tincture is you don't have to swallow.... just apply under and on tongue..


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## tendran (Mar 12, 2011)

Oh man, imagine taking a full shot.. even a half shot of that in some 151.. I don't even think I could handle that, I ate a 1g brownie once before going to the strip club and I was staring at the ceiling thinking up a grocery list while my favorite dancer was on.


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## Serapis (Mar 12, 2011)

ROFL

I made some Cannabutter from my sugar leaves and made a batch of brownies today. I used a silicone mold and made brownie bites. I'll be decorating them with chocoloate glazes and stuff tonight. I'll get some pics.... they are going to look sweet.

I also made some mini cup brownies and i ate two about an hour ago... I'm beginning to feel the effects in my face and my shoulders and neck. A big grin is inside wanting to get out and I'm finding stupid shit funny. Hard to believe for two little cup cakes... I simmered the butter for 20 hours and I squeezed the hell out of the mash ball to get every last drop of butter out of it.  This stuff is actually quite good. The glazes are going to be needed to help mask the taste of weed butter in these baked goods. 



tendran said:


> Oh man, imagine taking a full shot.. even a half shot of that in some 151.. I don't even think I could handle that, I ate a 1g brownie once before going to the strip club and I was staring at the ceiling thinking up a grocery list while my favorite dancer was on.


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## Serapis (Mar 12, 2011)

I've still got about 2 pounds of leaf and pop corn buds in paper bags. Today I pulled them out to rotate the leaves again and I spotted a small dot of mold on a bud. I laid out news paper and spread the trimmings and buds out to dry quicker. I was trying to quick cure in paper bags to get rid of chlorophyll as it really is discernible in the butter and oils. I made a mistake of not turning the leaves over yesterday and allowing the bags to air... I know it's only leaf and pop corn, but it's loaded with trichs and it is going to make me a lot of butter and tinctures. I'd rather not have to handle moldy bud and leaf to make a tincture, if you know what i mean.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

That sucks bro, get that mold out of there.


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## Serapis (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm on it 

I'm currently doing a second trim on buds and they look great.. the RH in cure jars is about 68% right now.... right where I want it..


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## redrum83420 (Mar 12, 2011)

where did you get those hydro meters at? the only 1 i have is a small digital temp/hydro meter. but i use that for my small box.


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## Serapis (Mar 12, 2011)

I found them on eBay for $3.99 each... they work great and they have a calibrator on back.. I look at my two digital, adjust the analogs, and toss them in jars...



redrum83420 said:


> where did you get those hydro meters at? the only 1 i have is a small digital temp/hydro meter. but i use that for my small box.






​


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## redrum83420 (Mar 12, 2011)

nice find and good idea on keeping them calibtrated. i'll have to check out ebay and amazon.


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## redrum83420 (Mar 12, 2011)

i just ordered 5 from petco.com for about $23 shipped to my house


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## Serapis (Mar 12, 2011)

*Yum!

*As promised, here are some pics of some of my canna butter goodies. If I get enough responses, I'll gladly do a picture tutorial and create a new thread on Eats. This is my first time working with glaze and it's kinda tricky. I need some design ideas and a better tool to drip with.

I think the vanilla and chocolate glazes go well with brownies. I also need to work on skilling up on dipping. You can create some neat effects, like latte art.

I used a mini brownie bites silicon mold from Wilton's. The brownie mix was simple, Duncan Hines. You can add walnuts, pecans, whatever you desire. I sometimes add espresso instead of a 1/4 cup of water for a java jolt.

Let me know what ya think.. I think about 2 of those brownies is a good dose of THC. Four would be pushing it, depending on tolerance and body weight.

Bon apetit!


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## redrum83420 (Mar 12, 2011)

sweet edibles dude. you make any tinctures yet? link you edibles here if you do make a new thread please


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## Serapis (Mar 12, 2011)

Thanks Rum, the tincture will probably be made in the next few days. I'm waiting on my dropper bottles so I have something to put it in.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

Holy fuck those snakes look delicious, not only are you a botanist but ur a pastry chef too? I need some of these recipes, my problem is I smoke so much I never really had experiences with edibles, then again Ive never really know what I am doing with butter looks like you got that shit down.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

Serapis said:


> Thanks Rum, the tincture will probably be made in the next few days. I'm waiting on my dropper bottles so I have something to put it in.


I ordered a bunch when I was gonna make tincture, but after I messed it up, I tore all the droppers out, sealed the tops with foil adn I use them to store all my hash.

I am going to give tincture another shot one day, looks like I need to follow your recipe.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

Serapis said:


> I only bought 4 pounds of butter because of the price. I may go get a bottle of 151 tomorrow to do some alcohol tincture as well. $5 a lb for butter was a rude awakening. I spent over $300 in last 2 weeks building a garden and raised beds in my yards for plants. Glad I did. Tomatoes go for nearly $5 a lb here as well. I can buy a tomato plant at Lowes that is 4 weeks old and has flowers on it for less than the price of a single tomato. It seemed like a no brainer.
> 
> My goal is to use about a 1/4 oz of good bud or sugar leaf trim or pop corn bud per lb of butter and about an oz - 2 oz of leaf per lb depending on trich counts on leaf. Theoretically, I could make about 16 lbs of cannabutter, but I'm not going to, as I'll have more new trim in 7-8 weeks, and so on... so I' always have something going on. None of my patients have been introduced to tinctures yet, but that is going to be changing with all this trim sitting here.
> 
> My goal next time is to avoid so much damn leaf. I'm going to get more aggressive on defoliating. I easily had about 15 tops that came out worthless for smoking because they didn't get enough light to form tight buds. I had some tops with stems as thick as 1/4" with crap for bud... I blame that on me... I did a great job of filling screen with veg and I dropped ball in flower. I should have kept taking leaves throughout flowering. Next time I will.


And the tomatoes in the store dont even taste like tomatoes.


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## gumball (Mar 12, 2011)

Man those are some sweet looking edibles, pun intended  I would enjoy seeing a how too. Sounds like you will be busy in the kitchen for many weeks using up that trim


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## tendran (Mar 12, 2011)

Serapis said:


> ROFL
> 
> I made some Cannabutter from my sugar leaves and made a batch of brownies today. I used a silicone mold and made brownie bites. I'll be decorating them with chocoloate glazes and stuff tonight. I'll get some pics.... they are going to look sweet.
> 
> I also made some mini cup brownies and i ate two about an hour ago... I'm beginning to feel the effects in my face and my shoulders and neck. A big grin is inside wanting to get out and I'm finding stupid shit funny. Hard to believe for two little cup cakes... I simmered the butter for 20 hours and I squeezed the hell out of the mash ball to get every last drop of butter out of it.  This stuff is actually quite good. The glazes are going to be needed to help mask the taste of weed butter in these baked goods.




Cream cheese covers up the taste of the weed pretty well. I made a devils food cake roll, inspired by pumpkin rolls and the like (the devils food cake was all I had in the house). The individual brownies were kinda gross cause I left the fibers right in there, but rolled up with cream cheese and a little milk, it was incredible.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

So do you use a double boiler method for melting and mixing the leaf/bud and butter.

And how long do you soak it for, in the past I only tried making a little bit of butter just to try it, but it looks like I should just dedicate a quarter and make some legit treats.

Do you smoke alot serapis, cause I do but me and my buddies always wanted to try some good brownies looks like you have a good recipe.

If I make some bomb brownies and eat two i should get fucked up right? I have a pretty hefty tolerance.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

When I made my tincture this is what I did. 

I took a good amount of really crystaley trim and filled a halfpint jar. I submerged everything with everclear, and shook it 5 times a day and let it soak for 7 days.


Now here is where I messed up, I took everything out and strained all the leaf out and put it all into a double boiler and started to evaporate the alcohol. I thought alot had evaporated and tried some, aghhhhhhhhhh it nearly made me puke.

So I waited some more and just mixed it with some coke and drank it it tasted awful.

I guess I should have tried a slow evaporation method, cause my method did not work.


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## Ganjasism (Mar 12, 2011)

Serapis said:


> If it is like any other RO system, probably about 2-3 minutes per gallon. I may try to either by a damn tank with built in float shut off or rig one.... I don't want to babysit an RO line... Maybe 18 gals at a time in a Rubbermaid?


I just came across this. Late I know. What if something was rigged up like the back of a toilet??? Water comes up and the float shuts off the water? Great growing by the way. Just finished Scotty's journal and am now reading yours.


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 12, 2011)

Ganjasism said:


> I just came across this. Late I know. What if something was rigged up like the back of a toilet??? Water comes up and the float shuts off the water? Great growing by the way. Just finished Scotty's journal and am now reading yours.


Take breaks, otherwise your brain will swell with the abundance of knowledge in those journals.


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## Ganjasism (Mar 12, 2011)

jimbizzzale67123 said:


> Take breaks, otherwise your brain will swell with the abundance of knowledge in those journals.


LOL, Yeah, I hear that. Just got to the edibles section. Damn those look good! What if you water cured the popcorn buds with the leaves that had trich's on em to get rid of the bad shit? Wouldn't that make the butter taste better, since it makes the bud smoke smoother? Just stands to reason. Whew, my brain is in meltdown mode.


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## Serapis (Mar 12, 2011)

Just a quickie here... I see a lot of responses and I want to address all of the questions and suggestions, but I've had 6-7 beers, several treats and it is late. I just wanted to acknowledge and thank all of you for participating in the thread. I'll get everything up to date in the morning with my coffee.. 



Ganjasism said:


> LOL, Yeah, I hear that. Just got to the edibles section. Damn those look good! What if you water cured the popcorn buds with the leaves that had trich's on em to get rid of the bad shit? Wouldn't that make the butter taste better, since it makes the bud smoke smoother? Just stands to reason. Whew, my brain is in meltdown mode.


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## Ganjasism (Mar 12, 2011)

I would personally like to thank Serapis and Scotty for turning me on to this kind of growing. You guys have awesome grows, and even better journals. Keep up the good work. I go back and forth between a couple of forums, and I must admit, that I've spent a considerable amount of time on the other one, UNTIL NOW! These two growers have enlightened us to the simplicity that is growing the most precious plant on the planet. I've since ordered the plumbing for the waterfarm, and will be building one soon. I'd like to try and make one with a little larger capacity as to try to avoid the roots from clogging it up though. Anyway thanks again.


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## Ganjasism (Mar 12, 2011)

I believe I read a post on here from Serapis that discussed the Blue res tube on the waterfarm getting cloudy to the point that you couldn't see the water level. I may have a solution. A spigot for a water jug. You still couldn't "see" the water level but all you'd have to do is open the spigot to see if it comes out??? Plus you wouldn't have to tilt the tube over to drain it. Not sure but here's a link for one for $1.50 http://beprepared.com/product.asp?pn=WS%20J101 Let me know what ya think.

....had to add this. If you used the spigot in the link; you could simply attach an "L" shaped, clear hose (or the blue tube that came with it) on the end of it when you needed to check the water level, and then open the spigot. Once the level is checked simply remove the "L" shaped tube (or blue one). I do believe this would be easier, especially in a scrog grow.

This one may be better. http://www.midwestsupplies.com/italian-bottling-spigot.html it can accept a 3/8" hose on the end.

Hell, just keep the blue tube and drill a hole next to it for the spigot. SOLVED!


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## tendran (Mar 12, 2011)

I think the beauty of the plumbing is knowing exactly where your water level is, not just the drainage aspect of it or knowing that there is "some amount" of water in there. It helps you know how fast your plants are drinking and know when it's necessary to top up in between reservoir changes.. as far as it getting cloudy, I never used one long enough to have that issue but I gave it a try long before I had a grow cab or lights even. Full on hydro wasn't for me, but I can definitely see the ingenuity in the way that tube was designed. If mine was getting cloudy I would just fashion a device to clean it, or buy some oversized pipe cleaners or somethin.. make it a habit of cleaning it out when I did res changes..


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 13, 2011)

Ganjasism said:


> LOL, Yeah, I hear that. Just got to the edibles section. Damn those look good! What if you water cured the popcorn buds with the leaves that had trich's on em to get rid of the bad shit? Wouldn't that make the butter taste better, since it makes the bud smoke smoother? Just stands to reason. Whew, my brain is in meltdown mode.


I like where this is going, what do you think about this serapis.

I hate that green taste.


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## Serapis (Mar 13, 2011)

Let me apologize quickly guys and gals... I don't have time to work the forums like I like to. I have to boot into Win XP and write a Java GUI before midnight tonight. I'll be back real soon....


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## Serapis (Mar 14, 2011)

As promised, a thread on treats... https://www.rollitup.org/cooking-cannabis/416827-glazed-mini-brownie-bites-w.html#post5449353


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## zamzia (Mar 17, 2011)

Excellent thread Serapis. Thank you very much. I've not posted up much on this forum as I've been lurking and learning! I will read the thread about the cannabutter too as I think it would be such as waste to throw anything away if/when I get round to doing a grow. I have bought a aquafarm having seen yours and scottyballs grows... amazing stuff. Just hopr it is as easy as you both say . +rep


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## Serapis (Mar 17, 2011)

Believe me, it is easy. I have no ties to General Hydroponics, nor do I benefit from the sales of their merchandise. I praise the Waterfarm constantly, because it is pure genius. The Venturi pick-up tube is just brilliant. If you do and follow what you read in Scotty's grow, you'll do fine.



zamzia said:


> Excellent thread Serapis. Thank you very much. I've not posted up much on this forum as I've been lurking and learning! I will read the thread about the cannabutter too as I think it would be such as waste to throw anything away if/when I get round to doing a grow. I have bought a aquafarm having seen yours and scottyballs grows... amazing stuff. Just hopr it is as easy as you both say . +rep


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## jimbizzzale67123 (Mar 17, 2011)

Serapis said:


> Believe me, it is easy. I have no ties to General Hydroponics, nor do I benefit from the sales of their merchandise. I praise the Waterfarm constantly, because it is pure genius. The Venturi pick-up tube is just brilliant. If you do and follow what you read in Scotty's grow, you'll do fine.


The water farms, IMO are the best system for anyone.

My buddy has a $500 4x4 ebb and flow table and a 600w light. His last grow not only did his plants herm and seed his shit up making his bud like crap(I warned him, he wanted to use seeds from a plant that hermed on me he thinks he can watch Jorges DVD and become a master grower just from watching that but anyways) he got maybe 5-7 ounces of mediocre bud if that, he gave me a bud I smoked a bowl took one hit, and threw the rest of his bud away.

I grew one plant in one $60 waterfarm with one 400w light I got 10-11 maybe even twelve ounces really didn't weight it all and 17g of bubble hash. He is trying to sell his table now and hes buying two waterfarms.

The waterfarms are so simple, so easy, and so effective there should be a sticky in the hydro forums talking about them.


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## Ganjasism (Mar 22, 2011)

Serapis said:


> Near tragedy....
> 
> 
> I stayed home from my part time job last night sick, with a back ache that was killing me. My roommate brought me one of those Homedic massagers with heat for computer chairs. As I was sitting here in disbelief of how good this thing felt, I looked up and saw that my remote read that the tent was 93 degrees! I got up in pain, but determined to find out what was going on. The vortex was working ok, turns out the inline was hot and barely moving air. The lamp felt hot too. Being a believer in having spare parts lying around (I have replacement bulbs here, just in case), I attached a second inline fan to the end of the duct and got it going. The temp dropped 14 degrees in less than an hour.
> ...


Man, I'm so glad I went back and read this! I'm getting ready to finish ordering "parts". I guess an extra fan is in order!


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## Ganjasism (Mar 22, 2011)

SCOTTYBALLS said:


> Thanks for the kind words Serapis  the whole point of doing a journal was to show others how easy it can be with hydro... And yes I really like to see people try it and have success with it cause from you and the other 5-6 grows another 5-6 grows may come out from each of you and it snowballs from there and will hopefully become a standard starting point in growing hydro or even established hydro growers that are fed up with more complicated systems and just want less hassle.. I mean really whats the point of growing 10 plants when you can get the same yield from 1 or 2 plants with the same amount of time.. anyway keep up the good work Ill be watching


You can count me in as one that has gone from soil, to hempy, to hydrofarm (homemade that is), thanks to Scottyballs and Serapis!


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