# How to operate a sterile hydroponic system



## jijiandfarmgang (Oct 31, 2014)

*FAQ*
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*Whats the best sterilizing agent for a hydroponics reservoir?*

There are many ways to have a sterile reservoir, chlorine, H2O2, Ozone, etc. All have pros and cons. I'm going to focus on Chlorine because its easy to measure, cheap and effective.

*I have root rot/ pathogen problem how much extra chlorine should I add?*

Chlorine is best used to prevent pathogen outbreaks not to treat them.

*Is running a sterile res better than using beneficial bacteria?*

I'm no aficionado on bennies, so I couldn't say. However some claim that they tried running sterile and it didn't work for them; bennies being the only thing that works. I doubt they were properly using a sterile reservoir in the first place but who knows.
_
_
*If I don't have a sterile reservoir or use beneficial bacteria will I get a root rot/pathogen problem?*

Not necessarily. Many people claim to use neither and have great results. If you focus on using plenty of dissolved oxygen, keep nutrient solution at a reasonable temperature, use a relatively low EC, do solution change outs at reasonable intervals, keep organic material, nutrients and additives out of nutrient solution, and keep away light leaks.......you should be fine too.

However, I do always recommend using bleach as a sterilizing agent in between grows.

*I heard chlorine is bad for plants?*

Not necessarily. Most plants can tolerate up to 5 ppm of chlorine.

*This is great, I found an old gallon of bleach underneath my kitchen sink. This should be enough to sterilize my reservoir for years right?*

If your going to use bleach, its better to use newer bleach. After a year the composition has drastically changed.

*My tap water has chloramine, its the same as chlorine except it doesn't dissipate as fast right?*

Not really. Chloramine is not as effective as oxidizing as chlorine.

*I heard all I need to do is add 1ppm chlorine per gallon every 2 days to my reservoir and I'm set.*

Not really. FYI most municipal tap water that is disinfected with chlorine has .5 to 1ppm of chlorine. The EPA allows for up to 4ppm. This doesn't mean its going to be ideal for your hydroponic system. Read below.

*Jiji, how did you become an expert on sterile hydroponics?*

I'm not, and don't claim to be. Most of this info is just ripped off the net, I'll try to cite my sources. I'm just trying to gather facts and disseminate information to the hydro community.


*How a sterile res works with chlorine as an oxidizer*
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Microbes are surrounded by a cell membrane surrounded by structural proteins. These proteins maintain their shape. When a strong oxidizer is present such as chlorine, proteins are released and they are accepted by the oxidizer. When the cell loses its proteins it loses its structure and disintegrates.

The higher the ORP (oxidization Reduction Potential) the faster proteins are lost from cells.

When you add chlorine in the water, thats called the *Total Chlorine*. Some of the Chlorine will bind with dirt, debris, plant etc., this is called *Combined Chlorine*. Combined chlorine is chlorine that is lost for disinfection. The rest is called *FREE CHLORINE*. Free Chlorine is in two forms, HOCL (Hypochlourus acid) and -OCL (Hypochlorite ion). HOCL is the only form that is active for oxidation. HOCL and -OCL change in proportion dependant on PH. Free Chlorine is about 95% HOCL at a PH of 6.5 and almost a 100% at PH 6.0. HOCL can generally easily be measured using a redox/orp meter. 

To know the disinfection properties, you need to know the ORP. ORP is measured in mV. Different oxidizers have different strengths. For chlorine a general accepted ORP value in hydroponics is 600mV to 750mV. This can vary on biological load, but probably closer to 600mV is better as achieving 750mV or above requires a fair amount of chlorine.

I use calcium hypochlorite, in the form of pool shock. Its extremely cheap and easy to find. I make a liquid batch so that 1 ml when added to a gallon of water will equal 1 ppm chlorine. Dose as necessary usually every two days.



Further reading and sources:
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http://www.hannainst.com/literature/Sanitation - UConn results.pdf
http://www.hannainst.com/literature/lithydro_sani_sys.pdf
http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/basicinformation/disinfectants.cfm
http://www.pulseinstruments.net/freechlorineandorp.aspx




http://hannainst.com/hannasanitationsystems/http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/8149.pdf
https://www.clorox.com/dr-laundry/expiration-date/


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## bradburry (Oct 31, 2014)

so its the pool shock i need at 1ppm......right?............good read btw 


jijiandfarmgang said:


> *FAQ*
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Whats the best sterilizing agent for a hydroponics reservoir?*
> ...


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## bradburry (Oct 31, 2014)

bradburry said:


> so its the pool shock i need at 1ppm......right?............good read btw


 i got it on ebay thanks jiji


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## SeedHo (Oct 31, 2014)

here are few to add to your faq, after reading this, these were the questions i had, with going to links.
how would a sterile res help me? 
what are the benefits vs cost? 
what kind of temps are needed and will temp effect the the oxidation process?
if ya don`t know you have to ask.


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## Thundercat (Oct 31, 2014)

I've been using a pool shock solution for the last 1.5 years now. Its been working great. I was hesitant to try it at first, but its been the most cost effective solution to a sterile res. I spent $9 on powdered pool shock and have not even used 1/4 of the container since I started. I mix 1/2 tsp of shock powder with 1 gallon of water and shake. Then I add that solution to my res at 1 ounce of solution per gallon in the res about every 3-4 days. Just thought I'd share my experience.


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## bradburry (Oct 31, 2014)

SeedHo said:


> here are few to add to your faq, after reading this, these were the questions i had, with going to links.
> how would a sterile res help me?
> what are the benefits vs cost?
> what kind of temps are needed and will temp effect the the oxidation process?
> if ya don`t know you have to ask.


 oxygen dissolves best in colder water and even down to just above freezing .....i think .lol

thats all i know ...


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## bradburry (Oct 31, 2014)

Thundercat said:


> I've been using a pool shock solution for the last 1.5 years now. Its been working great. I was hesitant to try it at first, but its been the most cost effective solution to a sterile res. I spent $9 on powdered pool shock and have not even used 1/4 of the container since I started. I mix 1/2 tsp of shock powder with 1 gallon of water and shake. Then I add that solution to my res at 1 ounce of solution per gallon in the res about every 3-4 days. Just thought I'd share my experience.


 where do you get your pool shock from and is the granules the same as powder?


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## Thundercat (Oct 31, 2014)

I bought it at walmart . Granules is prolly what this is.


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## bradburry (Oct 31, 2014)

Thundercat said:


> I bought it at walmart . Granules is prolly what this is.


 bloody walmart..lol....what dont they sell


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## jijiandfarmgang (Nov 2, 2014)

*FAQ's Continued
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*How would a sterile res help me?*

If you've had root rot/pathogen problems in the past, and have tried to circumvent them, but still seem to get them running a sterile res may resolve the issue.

*What are the benefits vs cost?*

The potential benefits from using a sterile hydroponic solution could be that it solves or mitigates your root rot/pathogen problem. The cost for a 1lb bag of calcium hypochlorite is 3-10 dollars, available locally at pool supply\box stores and treats thousands of gallons.

*What kind of temps are needed and will temp effect the the oxidation process?*

Temperature wont affect the oxidation rate of micro flora in a hydroponics solution (if it does, I could find no evidence of it). BUT higher temps equal higher biological load and will require more oxidation for sterilization. It is widely accepted that you shouldn't operate your reservoir temperature over 72f for DO/anaerobic bacteria, micro flora purposes. Probably ideally 65f-70f. Dissolved Oxygen increases as temperature decreases, and biological load increases as temp increases. It is feasible that having a hydroponics solution even colder than 65f may be beneficial, but at what temps does it start to severely inhibit plant growth I just don't know.

*Can you guarantee that if I follow these guidelines I won't have a pathogen/root-rot problem?*

Absolutely not.

*I heard Chlorine is a harmful corrosive chemical I'm going to stay away from it.*

I'm not forcing anyone, or not so much directly recommending that you use chlorine, or even a sterile res. I'm suggesting that you keep an open mind and make a logical decision on what will potentially work best for you.

When handling calcium hypocholorite proper PPE (personal protective equipment) should be utilized. The recommended strength of chlorine in a hydroponics solution is similar to most municipal tap waters which has been used for over 100 years and has saved countless lives.

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927478

*Why not use UV (Ultra Violet Light) instead for a sterile res, it seems to work great for reefers.*

While it may be great for fish tanks and water treatment it may not be so great for hydroponics. The cost is higher to operate (initial investment and electricity) and certain micro nutrients can break down and or fall out of solution. It is used in some commercial hydroponic agriculture but definitive scientific information is hard to come by. UV, ozone, iodine, chlorine and other oxidizers all have one thing in common; none are infallible for 100% across the board solving a root rot/pathogen problem.

http://www.ghvi.co.nz/NFT/Disease_in_Hydroponics.html

*I have some calcium hypochlorite (pool shock) that says 49% available chlorine. How much do I add to get 2 ppm of chlorine to a 100 gallon reservoir?*

To figure for 2 ppm of *TOTAL* chlorine is simple.

Remember 1mg/L = 1 ppm

So 2 ppm would be 2 mg per liter of water.

100 gallons = 378.5 liters. So 378.5 x 2 = 757 mg

But its only 49 percent strong. So 757/.49=1545 mg or 1.545 g

- Jiji


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## bradburry (Nov 2, 2014)

Thundercat said:


> I've been using a pool shock solution for the last 1.5 years now. Its been working great. I was hesitant to try it at first, but its been the most cost effective solution to a sterile res. I spent $9 on powdered pool shock and have not even used 1/4 of the container since I started. I mix 1/2 tsp of shock powder with 1 gallon of water and shake. Then I add that solution to my res at 1 ounce of solution per gallon in the res about every 3-4 days. Just thought I'd share my experience.


 im converted

what do u mean by 1 ounce?.....sorry im british.lol


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## Aeroknow (Nov 2, 2014)

bradburry said:


> im converted
> 
> what do u mean by 1 ounce?.....sorry im british.lol


I would imagine: fluid ounce

1 Fluid Ounces (US) = 29.5735 Milliliters


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## SeedHo (Nov 2, 2014)

jiji thank you.


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## bradburry (Nov 2, 2014)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> *FAQ*
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Whats the best sterilizing agent for a hydroponics reservoir?*
> ...


i read somewhere that tap water can have upto 1ppm of chlorine and plants can uptake 1ppm of chlorine?..... So how much does my pool shock need to be in my res?


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## Heavy Consumer (Nov 5, 2014)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> *FAQ's Continued
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
> 
> *How would a sterile res help me?*
> ...



Thank you Jiji. If even I was able to understand this info, it must have been well presented! Very informative.

TO what degree, if any, might the benefits of running a sterile reservoir vary between the different hydroponic growing methods (DWC, E+F, Aeroponics, NFT)?? Would I be right in imagining that with roots in water 24/7 (DWC), the risks of root issues are greater and thus running sterile might be more advisable (arguably)? Please excuse my ignorance. 
In your opinion, is it still a worthwhile practice regardless of method?


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## jijiandfarmgang (Nov 5, 2014)

Heavy Consumer said:


> Thank you Jiji. If even I was able to understand this info, it must have been well presented! Very informative.
> 
> TO what degree, if any, might the benefits of running a sterile reservoir vary between the different hydroponic growing methods (DWC, E+F, Aeroponics, NFT)?? Would I be right in imagining that with roots in water 24/7 (DWC), the risks of root issues are greater and thus running sterile might be more advisable (arguably)? Please excuse my ignorance.
> In your opinion, is it still a worthwhile practice regardless of method?


 It seems DWC has the most issues. I don't know if it benefits so much...It's a kind of you need it or you don't thing (with any type of hydroponics) and your more likely to need it with DWC.

I do think its a worthwhile practice regardless of method. However in EBB and Flow your less likely to need it.

- Jiji


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## Heavy Consumer (Nov 5, 2014)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> It seems DWC has the most issues. I don't know if it benefits so much...It's a kind of you need it or you don't thing (with any type of hydroponics) and your more likely to need it with DWC.
> 
> I do think its a worthwhile practice regardless of method. However in EBB and Flow your less likely to need it.
> 
> - Jiji


Thank you.


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## bradburry (Nov 6, 2014)

easily understood thanks jiji 
your on my list of people to believe .lol.


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## ttystikk (Nov 6, 2014)

My own RDWC experience was very, very clear; until I began to refrigerate my nutrient water and maintain its temperature in at least the mid sixties, nothing, but nothing stopped the rot. Not regen-a-root, not Dutch Master Zone, not even bleach. Plants grew like Crap or not at all.

Once I installed my chiller and got the water temps down, I never, ever had a problem again, and I haven't used root conditioner/sterilant since.

I've even gone to the extreme of putting in water I know to be bad and full of pathogens... only to watch my system clean the water instead of infecting the roots.

Two things contribute; one, cold water, supplied by a chiller. The water must drop below 70, preferably 66 f every night at least once. Two is my replacement of airstones with waterfalls. I'm not sure how it helps, but it does. The grinding drone of airpumps is a noise I don't miss. The little gurgling noise of a bunch of waterfalls is much more pleasing to the ear- and the mood.


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## bradburry (Nov 6, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> My own RDWC experience was very, very clear; until I began to refrigerate my nutrient water and maintain its temperature in at least the mid sixties, nothing, but nothing stopped the rot. Not regen-a-root, not Dutch Master Zone, not even bleach. Plants grew like Crap or not at all.
> 
> Once I installed my chiller and got the water temps down, I never, ever had a problem again, and I haven't used root conditioner/sterilant since.
> 
> ...


i have my chiller at 16°c......does that sound ok?


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## ttystikk (Nov 6, 2014)

bradburry said:


> i have my chiller at 16°c......does that sound ok?


That translates to about 61f, which is okay for the setpoint on your chiller. The water will likely be several degrees warmer, which puts it right where you want it.


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## bradburry (Nov 6, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> That translates to about 61f, which is okay for the setpoint on your chiller. The water will likely be several degrees warmer, which puts it right where you want it.


 its excactly 16° ....i temp the water aswell.


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## ttystikk (Nov 6, 2014)

bradburry said:


> its excactly 16° ....i temp the water aswell.


I was referring to the water running in your RDWC. You'll see that be a few degrees above the cooling circuit water, no matter where you set it.

My personal preference for RDWC water temperature is mid sixties, from 63 to 68.


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## BuddyLeeCU (Nov 20, 2014)

What brand nutrients do you run in your sterile rez?


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## jijiandfarmgang (Nov 20, 2014)

BuddyLeeCU said:


> What brand nutrients do you run in your sterile rez?


 Now I mix my own, so Haifa and Dissolvine. But before that I used Jacks hydro. It doesn't really matter what nutrients you use as long as you have a decent nutrient profile and they are derived from raw nutrient salts. No organics or additives.

- Jiji


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## bradburry (Nov 21, 2014)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> Now I mix my own, so Haifa and Dissolvine. But before that I used Jacks hydro. It doesn't really matter what nutrients you use as long as you have a decent nutrient profile and they are derived from raw nutrient salts. No organics or additives.
> 
> - Jiji


 true


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## BuddyLeeCU (Nov 21, 2014)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> Now I mix my own, so Haifa and Dissolvine. But before that I used Jacks hydro. It doesn't really matter what nutrients you use as long as you have a decent nutrient profile and they are derived from raw nutrient salts. No organics or additives.
> 
> - Jiji


I don't have a big enough grow to justify buying 50# bags and mixing. Jacks hydro I can only find a couple formulations, did you use the same formulation for veg and flower? Could you dumb it down for me and just link to which blend for which cycle?

http://www.hydro-gardens.com/all.htm

The link is for a company in my area. I don't see formulations that match the botanicare line I'm using now. Really anxious to switch to sterile just need to make sure I don't start another round of problems. Thanks for all the replies and how-tos.


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2014)

BuddyLeeCU said:


> I don't have a big enough grow to justify buying 50# bags and mixing. Jacks hydro I can only find a couple formulations, did you use the same formulation for veg and flower? Could you dumb it down for me and just link to which blend for which cycle?
> 
> http://www.hydro-gardens.com/all.htm
> 
> The link is for a company in my area. I don't see formulations that match the botanicare line I'm using now. Really anxious to switch to sterile just need to make sure I don't start another round of problems. Thanks for all the replies and how-tos.


Another Colorado resident, welcome! I bought Hydrogardens' "hi K" hydroponic formula, or 5-11-26 with micros. A twenty five pound bag runs around $45.

You'll need calcium nitrate, that is about $65 for the fifty lb bag, I don't know if it comes in smaller sizes.

You'll want Epsom salts, that's $72 for a fifty pound bag- or get it from your grocery store pharmacy section a few pounds at a time. Get the plain stuff.

AND NOTHING ELSE. If you're dying to try an additive, be sure it isn't just adding more of the basic nutrient salts. That's most of them, especially the bloom boosters- which every reputable grower I've ever spoken to says to stay the Fuck away from anyway. Most of the rest are non plant food additives like PGRs, or 'plant growth regulators', aka hormones. You don't need those, either.

Create and maintain ideal conditions for your plants, manage pests effectively and you'll have great results. It really isn't more complicated than that- in theory. The practical application of consistent environment is a bit trickier, yet well worth the effort.


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## BuddyLeeCU (Nov 21, 2014)

ttystikk said:


> Another Colorado resident, welcome! I bought Hydrogardens' "hi K" hydroponic formula, or 5-11-26 with micros. A twenty five pound bag runs around $45.
> 
> You'll need calcium nitrate, that is about $65 for the fifty lb bag, I don't know if it comes in smaller sizes.
> 
> ...


Can you rock a quick formula for a 10 gal batch?

Also I'm current stocked up on botanic are CNS 17. It looks like they will work with sterile. Can anyone confirm?


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## jijiandfarmgang (Nov 21, 2014)

Not sure the botanicaire ratio your looking at but the 5-11-26 is added with calcium nitrate about 15-0-0. You add calcium nitrate at a different ratio to customize npk.

Im trying not to recommend any nutrients and I'm not even too familiar what’s out there any more.

For instance I never heard of CNS17, and when I looked it up found "CNS17‘s revolutionary suspension technology utilizes polysaccharides in a proprietary process that makes it possible for all 17 essential plant nutrients to be contained in convenient single bottle formulas. Once diluted in water, these simple sugars hydrolyze and provide the added benefit of becoming a highly available energy source for beneficial microbes and plants."

What they really mean is these sugars become a food source for microbes good or bad.

Something with no BS....General hydroponics flora 3 part or lucas formula would work or something similar.

- Jiji


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## bradburry (Nov 21, 2014)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> Not sure the botanicaire ratio your looking at but the 5-11-26 is added with calcium nitrate about 15-0-0. You add calcium nitrate at a different ratio to customize npk.
> 
> Im trying not to recommend any nutrients and I'm not even too familiar what’s out there any more.
> 
> ...


 jiji......what exactly goes in your res?


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## ttystikk (Nov 21, 2014)

BuddyLeeCU said:


> Can you rock a quick formula for a 10 gal batch?
> 
> Also I'm current stocked up on botanic are CNS 17. It looks like they will work with sterile. Can anyone confirm?


Yes, the CNS line is a one part chemical nutrient- not that they haven't complicated the shit out of that one, too lol

2.5 g/gal of the hi K mix
2.5 g/gal of calcium nitrate
1.5 g/gal of epsom salts

Leave room at the top to dilute to needed EC, pH last.


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## BuddyLeeCU (Nov 21, 2014)

bradburry said:


> jiji......what exactly goes in your res?


Sounds like a mix of love and diligence.


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## bradburry (Nov 21, 2014)

BuddyLeeCU said:


> Sounds like a mix of love and diligence.


 something like that ....keep your friends close and clever friends even closer.


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## jijiandfarmgang (Nov 21, 2014)

bradburry said:


> jiji......what exactly goes in your res?


I have no secret ingredient or anything special. Not to mention I change things too much. I wrote the thread about sterility because a lot of people are doing it wrong or don't understand.

When I use chlorine it would be dosed for 1 ppm then tested with an orp meter and adjusted. Right now in ebb and flow tables I'm not using it.

I'm not an expert on mixing nutes or anything, got some help from some people on Rollitup and just started doing it. Just basically looked at a lot of nutrient profiles and a bit of ideas that are thought to work the best (there are many, a lot of them contradict) and just picked the avg. 

Ingredients
Haifa calcium nitrate, potassium nitrate, magnesium nitrate, magnesium sulfate, MAP, MKP, Dissolvine Iron DPTA, copper edta, solubor, maganese edta, zinc edta, sodium molybdate.
I don't use all these at once, just different mixes. A lot of them are only 1 lb bags or 5 lb bags.

and a little Phosphoric acid. BTW I don't think I ever mentioned it but stay away from citric acid for a sterile res. It's in a lot of hydro store ph downs.

Don't use the CNS 17 for a sterile res. If you want you should email botanicare and ask if its recommended for sterile, I would laugh if they said yes.

- Jiji


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## bradburry (Nov 21, 2014)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> I have no secret ingredient or anything special. Not to mention I change things too much. I wrote the thread about sterility because a lot of people are doing it wrong or don't understand.
> 
> When I use chlorine it would be dosed for 1 ppm then tested with an orp meter and adjusted. Right now in ebb and flow tables I'm not using it.
> 
> ...


 iv gone down the calcium hyproclhorite route like you mentioned before......5 ltr tub for £15 free delivery........im a happy bunny.

and my plants doing fine.

i love you jiji...thanks for info . Lol


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## Aeroknow (Nov 22, 2014)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> I have no secret ingredient or anything special. Not to mention I change things too much. I wrote the thread about sterility because a lot of people are doing it wrong or don't understand.
> 
> When I use chlorine it would be dosed for 1 ppm then tested with an orp meter and adjusted. Right now in ebb and flow tables I'm not using it.
> 
> ...


I've only used the cns17 for run-to-waste. Good stuff.
But, for reasons that you have discovered, i wouldn't use that stuff in a recirculating system with a dead rez.. Besides, that stuff clogs/gunks shit up, especially pump filters.

The nutrient profile of the cns17 is killer. If/when i finally start messing around with the raw salts, i would look to try and copy something similar to that of the 3 different cns17 formulas.


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## blackforest (Dec 4, 2014)

Great thread, tons of great info about this subject! Has anyone tried botanicare's Hydroguard? I read it's supposed to help prevent root rot. I'm running my home made rdwc system and am having excellent results using GH 3 part. I just found out about the Lucas formula and am going to switch to that method since it's noted that GH Gro can run high in nitrogen, and I like to keep things as simple as possible. Anyway, the system is hooked up to a chiller running 68-70, and the roots look white and healthy. I've changed out the water once so far and am going to do so every 7-10 days or so. I really want to prevent root rot and am wondering if anyone uses a root inoculator like hydroguard. If not, how exactly does H2O2 work. Would you add that to the system every so often regardless. Is H202 similar to a hydroguard, or different type of chemical/purpose all together. Thanks for any help.


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## bradburry (Dec 5, 2014)

blackforest said:


> Great thread, tons of great info about this subject! Has anyone tried botanicare's Hydroguard? I read it's supposed to help prevent root rot. I'm running my home made rdwc system and am having excellent results using GH 3 part. I just found out about the Lucas formula and am going to switch to that method since it's noted that GH Gro can run high in nitrogen, and I like to keep things as simple as possible. Anyway, the system is hooked up to a chiller running 68-70, and the roots look white and healthy. I've changed out the water once so far and am going to do so every 7-10 days or so. I really want to prevent root rot and am wondering if anyone uses a root inoculator like hydroguard. If not, how exactly does H2O2 work. Would you add that to the system every so often regardless. Is H202 similar to a hydroguard, or different type of chemical/purpose all together. Thanks for any help.
> View attachment 3307094


not to sound funny my friend but i thought you said " excellent thread " lol......everything you need to know is in the first few posts, and i think hydroguard is beneficial bacteria.

all you need to know post 1-3 good look


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## blackforest (Dec 5, 2014)

bradburry said:


> not to sound funny my friend but i thought you said " excellent thread " lol......everything you need to know is in the first few posts, and i think hydroguard is beneficial bacteria.
> 
> all you need to know post 1-3 good look


Yeah, I read every post. Didn't see the info I was asking about, but thanks. 
Looks like that hydroguard is a benny, not sure how I missed that one.


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## d0rk2dafullest (Dec 5, 2014)

VERY GOOD INFORMATION. i have read people also use 10% germicidal bleach solution into the res as well with no ill effects.


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## Banana444 (Jan 2, 2015)

@jijiandfarmgang 
Would this work for any hydroponics system? I am giving dwc a shot and will eventually make a small rdwc system. I already have some GH micro and bloom and would like to make this as simple as possible so those would be the only nutes+calmag. I have a bluelab guardian otw for monitoring.


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## jijiandfarmgang (Jan 2, 2015)

Yes it will work in any hydroponic system. I tried to make the description on orp and sterile complete. Its actually not all that easy to get it right and you have to stay on top of everything.

Pre-bought bennies probably be easier.

- Jiji


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## BuddyLeeCU (Jan 2, 2015)

Switching to ebb and flow cut all my issues. No more clogged sprayers and pumps no more root rot issues etc etc. I'm not running bennies or sterile. I'll put up a post later this week with the ebb and flow design. I did switch to JR Peters nutes with Epsom salt and MOST mix. Super easy to mix up, I keep a concentrate and just dilute it 1 to 10.

Banana- I would strongly recommend against dwc. Very resource intensive and the environment way too prone to problems.


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## ShirkGoldbrick (Feb 25, 2015)

Great post!

Except, UV light will not precipitate minerals unless it produces ozone. Chlorine and various other oxidizers do have the potential to oxidize (and thereby precipitate) minerals.

Also, you need to manage ORP, or total/free chlorine. There is no "dose per x gallons" that will work for everyone. If you would like a deeper understanding on the subject just check out my thread:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/pathogen-control.861821/


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## BuddyLeeCU (Feb 25, 2015)

ShirkGoldbrick said:


> Great post!
> 
> Except, UV light will not precipitate minerals unless it produces ozone. Chlorine and various other oxidizers do have the potential to oxidize (and thereby precipitate) minerals.
> 
> ...


Your issues are almost certainly a matter of water temp. I focused on controlli g temp, light, and the Jr peters no nonsese mineral salts. I don't add Benes and I dont run sterile. I'm not even using RO water and everything is superb. I'm Usk g the 2 week rotation on 4 ress's all different concentrates for different cycles. Every 4 weeks I rinse and clean each ress

For the system I bought sterilite tubs and 4x4 vinyl fence posts. The tubs are my flood tables. The fence posts are 18" each and have 5 each 2" net pots on the top. Holes on the bottom and sides and filled with hydroton. I transant bare root when clones have 3" roots. The fence posts rotate through the tubs as the plants grow.


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## ShirkGoldbrick (Feb 26, 2015)

BuddyLeeCU said:


> Your issues are almost certainly a matter of water temp. I focused on controlli g temp, light, and the Jr peters no nonsese mineral salts. I don't add Benes and I dont run sterile. I'm not even using RO water and everything is superb. I'm Usk g the 2 week rotation on 4 ress's all different concentrates for different cycles. Every 4 weeks I rinse and clean each ress
> 
> For the system I bought sterilite tubs and 4x4 vinyl fence posts. The tubs are my flood tables. The fence posts are 18" each and have 5 each 2" net pots on the top. Holes on the bottom and sides and filled with hydroton. I transant bare root when clones have 3" roots. The fence posts rotate through the tubs as the plants grow.


Buddy, yes, I believe part of my problem was water temps. Pathogens can grow much more quickly under higher temperatures.

You're very lucky to not have any issues, and I hope that you continue to not have any issues. Perhaps beneficial bacteria have colonized your system without any effort on your part.

The thing is, it doesn't take much for the whole thing to hit the fan. One bad bacteria could be introduced somehow into your grow room and it might feed off of/thrive in conditions that other bacteria don't or cant. If this does happen then you either have to try introducing more beneficial bacteria to the point some may just thrive in the same conditions and feed off of the same as the pathogen or you'll have to go sterile.

Again, I'm glad everything is working for you now, but if sometime in the future it hits the fan and you want to go sterile then you could try cleaning everything and running it like jiji recommends - the chlorine you add may yet just be enough. If it isn't, then you're looking at a free chlorine controller or an ORP controller and possibly UV light.

Another note: I also have been setting up a high pressure aero system. I was running initially off of 12V pumps but they were rated at the minimum threshold for the misters. The "slime" still colonized my RO water in the res to some degree, but I was able to root with it. I kept clogging sprayers at the lower pressures and tried to put in a 5 micron filter, but the pressure drop was too much to maintain spray. I have since bumped up pressure and added the filter.

Moral of the story is, my room is 80, the res (due to constant evaporative cooling of the water in the table) was probably ~60 (didn't monitor) and I still got it. Perhaps the misters killed it and so it didn't get on the roots - but before I get this thing fully running I will be running sterile.

PS: I would be willing to send you a few gallons of my contaminated water if you want to try running it through to prove it doesn't colonize your system.


----------



## Banana444 (Feb 27, 2015)

BuddyLeeCU said:


> Switching to ebb and flow cut all my issues. No more clogged sprayers and pumps no more root rot issues etc etc. I'm not running bennies or sterile. I'll put up a post later this week with the ebb and flow design. I did switch to JR Peters nutes with Epsom salt and MOST mix. Super easy to mix up, I keep a concentrate and just dilute it 1 to 10.
> 
> Banana- I would strongly recommend against dwc. Very resource intensive and the environment way too prone to problems.


Thanks, but I am loving dwc. No problems whatsoever. I am using hydroguard and dont even change my res now that the plant is drinking half gallon of water a day. All I need now is to make an rdwc.


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## squirt1961 (Nov 13, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> *FAQ*
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Whats the best sterilizing agent for a hydroponics reservoir?*
> ...


Thank you very informative post. I've been using beneficial bacteria called great white 1/4 tsp per gal in my hydro setup. Thinking about switching to tap water instead of distilled. Wondering if this will cause problems with the good bacteria


----------



## jijiandfarmgang (Nov 19, 2015)

squirt1961 said:


> Thank you very informative post. I've been using beneficial bacteria called great white 1/4 tsp per gal in my hydro setup. Thinking about switching to tap water instead of distilled. Wondering if this will cause problems with the good bacteria


If your going to use tap water with bennies find out whats in it. Get a water report from your municipality. Then go from there.

But no, don't mix city water and great white.

- Jiji


----------



## squirt1961 (Nov 19, 2015)

jijiandfarmgang said:


> If your going to use tap water with bennies find out whats in it. Get a water report from your municipality. Then go from there.
> 
> But no, don't mix city water and great white.
> 
> - Jiji


Thank you I'll make sure not to use one or the other together


----------



## Gregor Eisenhorn (Apr 7, 2016)

Absolutely outstanding thread, very informative and helpful.

I'll order some calcium hypochlorite for my reservoir. It's symbol is if anyone is wondering, should help finding the stuff in other countries.

Actually I was wondering if pure Ca(CIO)2 has the same strength as the pool shock one (which is about 49%)? Could anyone help me with this?


----------



## completenoobie (Jul 22, 2017)

ok, who can help with some math on this issue??? I had someone give me a formula that would give me 5ppm, 0.5g per 10 gallons.

I want to make a concentrate so I can add 1 oz, 30 mL, a shot glass of concentrate to 3 gals and end up with the same 5 ppm.

I can't remember how I did it and didn't write anything down but I came up with about 2.5g in a gal jug of water for the concentrate and that would give me approx 5ppm when 1oz of that was added to 3 gallons of water. 

Can anyone help me with this math? I'm gonna go back and look at the post with the math in it again (AGAIN) and see if I can't work something up, but conversions fuck me up

Thanks for this thread, suddenly I need it after years of no problems at all.


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## completenoobie (Jul 22, 2017)

trying to work through it I actually think I missed something originally and came up with a formula to make 5ppm at 1oz/gal instead of 1oz/3gal

I do have to say. reading through this thread, every single time I saw the letter g used for gallon I read and thought gram instead and just can't get over it.

5mg/L = 5mg(x3.785l/gal)/gal =18.925mg/gal


X3gal = 56.775mg/xxx (quantity of concentrate which happens to be a gallon at 128 oz per)


X128 = 7.267g???

On my original math I think I forgot the x3 step and made it to work out to one ounce per gallon would give 5ppm, at approx 2.442g in a gal of water for the concentrate, then add 1oz per gal final which I meant to add 1 oz per 3 gal final.

although it may work better because 2.4g is not dissolving that well in a single gallon, so I may not be able to get 7.3g to dissolve entirely. time to check the merck and see what the solution rate is.

Now, do I have to take into account the percent and divide that 7.3 by .49 ??? which makes it even more unlikely to achieve my original goal of being able to add 1oz of concentrate to 3 gal water to come up with 5ppm


----------



## Aeroknow (Jul 23, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> trying to work through it I actually think I missed something originally and came up with a formula to make 5ppm at 1oz/gal instead of 1oz/3gal
> 
> I do have to say. reading through this thread, every single time I saw the letter g used for gallon I read and thought gram instead and just can't get over it.
> 
> ...


Not sure what exact ppm this gives me, around 3? but for my cloner:
1gram of the Calcium hypochlorite to 1gal of water to make my stock solution.
I add 30ml/5gal of that stock solution into the cloner.


----------



## completenoobie (Jul 23, 2017)

have you been doing that for some time and with no ill effects?

according to the math on the first page of the thread, it sounds like yours would be way over 3 ppm. I can do math, I can't do conversions and formulas. Or maybe I'm looking at it wrong.

Either way I need help figuring it out. 

Actually now that I look at it, it seems like your concentrate would provide far less than 3ppm

Shit, I am confused.


----------



## Aeroknow (Jul 23, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> have you been doing that for some time and with no ill effects?
> 
> according to the math on the first page of the thread, it sounds like yours would be way over 3 ppm. I can do math, I can't do conversions and formulas. Or maybe I'm looking at it wrong.
> 
> ...


Yeah, like I had said, not sure exactly how many ppm's it is.
I have been adding this much every 3 days for as long as I've been using a cloner. Zero slime this way.


----------



## completenoobie (Jul 23, 2017)

Aeroknow said:


> Yeah, like I had said, not sure exactly how many ppm's it is.
> I have been adding this much every 3 days for as long as I've been using a cloner. Zero slime this way.



Cloner? Rooting cuttings and this amount has no ill effects? Clones root easily, quickly, and w/o high fail rate?


----------



## Aeroknow (Jul 24, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> Cloner? Rooting cuttings and this amount has no ill effects? Clones root easily, quickly, and w/o high fail rate?


I wouldn't be recommending that dosage if it had ill effects and a high fail rate


----------



## biostudent (Jul 24, 2017)

If your reservoir is non-flammable, non-corrosive, can just pour some ethanol and light it on fire. That's how most instruments are sterilized in the lab. But my reservoirs are all some plastic, PE, PVC or rubber, and I use 35-42% H2O2. Kills most irritant microbes; algae growth has been the only real problem in my setups and H2O2 devours it. Plus, the decomposition of H2O2 releases oxygen in to the water.

H2O2 doesn't offer full sterility though. Any catalase-positive microbe is able to metabolize H2O2. Staphy's, salmonella, e.coli, enterics will survive.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalase#Bacterial_identification_.28catalase_test.29


----------



## biostudent (Jul 24, 2017)

The other, more hazardous method is, passing an electrical current through the solution (electrolysis). It will kill nearly all types of microbes including fungi.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9222036


----------



## Budley Doright (Jul 27, 2017)

biostudent said:


> If your reservoir is non-flammable, non-corrosive, can just pour some ethanol and light it on fire. That's how most instruments are sterilized in the lab. But my reservoirs are all some plastic, PE, PVC or rubber, and I use 35-42% H2O2. Kills most irritant microbes; algae growth has been the only real problem in my setups and H2O2 devours it. Plus, the decomposition of H2O2 releases oxygen in to the water.
> 
> H2O2 doesn't offer full sterility though. Any catalase-positive microbe is able to metabolize H2O2. Staphy's, salmonella, e.coli, enterics will survive.
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalase#Bacterial_identification_.28catalase_test.29


Setting the res on fire huh. Well that's a first lol. There was the "burn gnats with a torch" lol


----------



## completenoobie (Jul 27, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Setting the res on fire huh. Well that's a first lol. There was the "burn gnats with a torch" lol



yeah, but fucking still, how goddamn big was that fucking "gnat" that you would catch a res on fire trying to kill it with anything less than a flamethrower, I mean legit govt size flamethrower?


----------



## Budley Doright (Jul 27, 2017)

Not sure about size of the gnat but same poster swore Mountain Dew helped him grow some dank weed lol. Now what I found perplexing was the fact that the more dangerous method was to run a high current through the res . Tough choice lol.


----------



## completenoobie (Jul 27, 2017)

wait what? mtn dew this thread?

and you mean between fightin gnat with a torch and electrolysis, that the latter is more dangerous?

yeah I'd live through either because I'm a pro operator at both, but I'd agree (with you) electrolysis is way simpler/easier/safer, hell I can run electrolysis without having to go to wal mart, and to run a good flamethrower that would take me at least 2 trips to casa de pot. and I probably got more than enough to both twice over without having to do either (trip).


----------



## completenoobie (Jul 27, 2017)

Aeroknow said:


> I wouldn't be recommending that dosage if it had ill effects and a high fail rate



touche. fair enough, but in my defense, technically I didn't know you were actually _recommending _ that, just thought it was a blazee "this is what I do" answer

I still really really want to know the actual math, not just a passed on formula the likes of what we have and is posted here, but rather an answer from somebody that actually knows how to calculate it from knowledge, not plug ins.

I think my stock is way hotter than yours and the math supports that guess I think.

I just need to find a happy medium to kill what I want dead and let live what I want living.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 27, 2017)

Re the Mountain Dew, no not this thread lol. I think both methods, fire and electricity are foolish lol. Go back and have a look at Jiji's older stuff, she posted some really good info on running sterile and monitoring .


----------



## completenoobie (Jul 27, 2017)

I've been through this thread completely, haven't seen any of her other stuff.

and, NO NO NO, I don't mean anywhere near my babies, I mean out in the yard makin explosives and shit. bonfires, tater cannons, KClO3, etc. but still foolish to attempt, dangerous no matter how safe you try to be.

guy I learned how to make nitrogen triiodide from only had about two fingers and safe or not, that's the epitome of dangerous. that was kinda my point, as you said prior.

anyway, this is the only sterile/monitoring thread I've come across but I searched for this thread by name looking for this math/chlorine


----------



## Trichometry101 (Jul 28, 2017)

Mmm bleach bud! Whats it taste like? Nothing? Jizz? 

Don't worried silly hydro airbud growers, even some soil growers are stupid too and grow crappy peroxide tasting bud. 

Let's say you grow a pineapple strain. How can you get ethyl butrate without clausseniito eat the butric acid? Oh that's right, if you grow pineapple strains you just use ADDITIVES to fool yourself! Just hope you bought enough Derpinator sugar water products so the plant soaks it all up! All that sugar water will make up for growing in a swimming pool! Hahaha how can anyone smoke that shit? Only because they are delusional! Fake hydro weed grown and sold to delusional placebo people. Cant even get a buzz proper with that jizzwater airbud! 

Growing that fake bud with garbage out of the back of high times! You don't even know real weed is a completely different thing than that hydroponic wannabe stuff you've convinced yourself into smoking. 

Lettuce in the shape of weed! Hahaha Maybe some of you will wake up and grow real weed some day, when you accidentally drop a seed in your yard and its the best shit you ever smoked!


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## completenoobie (Jul 28, 2017)

Trichometry101 said:


> Mmm bleach bud! Whats it taste like? Nothing? Jizz?
> 
> Don't worried silly hydro airbud growers, even some soil growers are stupid too and grow crappy peroxide tasting bud.
> 
> ...




I sure wish you would call out stinkbud by name

https://www.rollitup.org/t/harvest-a-pound-every-three-weeks.116859/page-1

even though he has gone back to soil, argue that shit with him and I know who my money is on.

I've grown it all young man, and if it can be grown, then fuckin grow it and if you wanna have an attitude and put other people down for doing something that is ultimately good, then find another thread in which to antagonize people in search of knowledge


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## Budley Doright (Jul 28, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> I've been through this thread completely, haven't seen any of her other stuff.
> 
> and, NO NO NO, I don't mean anywhere near my babies, I mean out in the yard makin explosives and shit. bonfires, tater cannons, KClO3, etc. but still foolish to attempt, dangerous no matter how safe you try to be.
> 
> ...


The issue with chlorine is it may not dissipate before adding more. Pretty sure she has formula in one of her threads,


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## completenoobie (Jul 28, 2017)

it's in this thread, but I don't want a formula, I want to understand the concept to where I can do the math all on my own and make it do anything I want it to do, 1ppm, 0.1ppm, 10,000ppm, etc etc etc


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## Budley Doright (Jul 28, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> it's in this thread, but I don't want a formula, I want to understand the concept to where I can do the math all on my own and make it do anything I want it to do, 1ppm, 0.1ppm, 10,000ppm, etc etc etc


Can you not use a meter or some kind of test strips to measure?


----------



## Aeroknow (Jul 28, 2017)

Trichometry101 said:


> Mmm bleach bud! Whats it taste like? Nothing? Jizz?
> 
> Don't worried silly hydro airbud growers, even some soil growers are stupid too and grow crappy peroxide tasting bud.


----------



## dirtWeevil (Jul 28, 2017)

wow somebody sure got butthurt, always nice when one of the soil elitist's socks gets away from the hamper and smells up a good thread. For me personally, all of my problems ceased after i started adding beneficial organisms, so ill never go back, but there's always more than one way to catch a frog


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## completenoobie (Jul 28, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Can you not use a meter or some kind of test strips to measure?



this thread talks about orp and its values but I don't have one yet and a good one is pricier than I can afford atm. my point is I want to be able to make a stock concentrate of known strength and then be able to measure out a known amount and add it to the res easily, like a shot glass, 30mL, rather than weigh out 0.15g of dry powder each and every bucket or every time I do a treatment.

I need to streamline the process. Plus I am ocd about these things, I cannot, repeat CANNOT just let things go, I have to learn and know and understand.

"Get busy learnin, or get busy dyin"


----------



## Budley Doright (Jul 28, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> this thread talks about orp and its values but I don't have one yet and a good one is pricier than I can afford atm. my point is I want to be able to make a stock concentrate of known strength and then be able to measure out a known amount and add it to the res easily, like a shot glass, 30mL, rather than weigh out 0.15g of dry powder each and every bucket or every time I do a treatment.
> 
> I need to streamline the process. Plus I am ocd about these things, I cannot, repeat CANNOT just let things go, I have to learn and know and understand.
> 
> "Get busy learnin, or get busy dyin"


Or keep it simple and run hydroguard, if overdose no harm to plants, and it really did seem to help root growth, I found using bleach/chlorine it was always a guessing game.


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## completenoobie (Jul 28, 2017)

I did just get some but haven't made the transition yet, as you know they are incompatible. Or rather, the chlorine will kill the hydroguard. I have a big res I fill my buckets from and as soon as I empty that and am ready for a refill on the big one, I will try the HG. It already has had a little chlorine in it and prior a little h2o2 which will also kill HG iirc.

I still want to know the math behind that though, you just ain't gonna talk me outta that!! Even if I don't ever use it again, I just have to wrap my noodle around the concept, or the exact calculation anyway, I get the concept, just not the calculation.

Wonder when jiji might come back??? I know there's a hundred others on this forum that can help me understand the math, trouble is finding them.


----------



## Budley Doright (Jul 28, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> I did just get some but haven't made the transition yet, as you know they are incompatible. Or rather, the chlorine will kill the hydroguard. I have a big res I fill my buckets from and as soon as I empty that and am ready for a refill on the big one, I will try the HG. It already has had a little chlorine in it and prior a little h2o2 which will also kill HG iirc.
> 
> I still want to know the math behind that though, you just ain't gonna talk me outta that!! Even if I don't ever use it again, I just have to wrap my noodle around the concept, or the exact calculation anyway, I get the concept, just not the calculation.
> 
> Wonder when jiji might come back??? I know there's a hundred others on this forum that can help me understand the math, trouble is finding them.


Not trying to sway you at all, just a suggestion lol. I can't get it here as it's not been approved, haven't looked in a bit though. I don't run anything at all except chiller and all good so far . I'm actually switching to a non flooded root zone setup in the fall. Need a chiller lol.


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## completenoobie (Jul 28, 2017)

ebay


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## dirtWeevil (Jul 28, 2017)

i don't buy that chlorine in tap water kills the beneficial stuff, i can smell them and see other evidence of life such as build up on stones, the smell is a dead giveaway, mine smells like dust, or dirt or musty if you will, just like dirt is my best way to describe it. Bacteria and fungi both thrive in the most extreme climates on earth, it's not that far of a stretch to think they can survive a res tub. I wish i had a microscope, then id just look and see. I remember the first time i got on forums people were touting the benefits of adding bennies to a conventional row crop to decrease use of ferts and mop up over fertilization or nitrogen the plants don't eat.

In addition, my own experience with hay bale gardening doesn't support the notion that chemical ferts kill beneficial organisms, as how you prep a bale is to quite simply add fertilizer, the microbial growth explodes and the bale "cooks" as if it were compost, the microbes in the bale feast on the nitrogen etc. and the straw in the bale is broken down in a month instead of three.

these are only my own observations so i don't claim the above as anything but food for thought without a scope to find out for sure


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## completenoobie (Jul 28, 2017)

if that was directed at me, I'm not using just tap water talking about HG, I am fighting a rash of root rot and am treating with supplemental chlorine atm


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## Budley Doright (Jul 29, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> ebay


For $150 shipping lol


----------



## ANC (Jul 29, 2017)

dirtWeevil said:


> i don't buy that chlorine in tap water kills the beneficial stuff, i can smell them and see other evidence of life such as build up on stones, the smell is a dead giveaway, mine smells like dust, or dirt or musty if you will, just like dirt is my best way to describe it. Bacteria and fungi both thrive in the most extreme climates on earth, it's not that far of a stretch to think they can survive a res tub. I wish i had a microscope, then id just look and see. I remember the first time i got on forums people were touting the benefits of adding bennies to a conventional row crop to decrease use of ferts and mop up over fertilization or nitrogen the plants don't eat.
> 
> In addition, my own experience with hay bale gardening doesn't support the notion that chemical ferts kill beneficial organisms, as how you prep a bale is to quite simply add fertilizer, the microbial growth explodes and the bale "cooks" as if it were compost, the microbes in the bale feast on the nitrogen etc. and the straw in the bale is broken down in a month instead of three.
> 
> these are only my own observations so i don't claim the above as anything but food for thought without a scope to find out for sure


It kills virtually everything that is in contact with it long enough, even fish. What you are smelling is probably geosmin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geosmin


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## dirtWeevil (Jul 29, 2017)

that makes sense, but that doesn't account for the other signs of life, i need to save for a scope lol. I'm gonna stick with my own experience though as i had to fight rot after rot, monitor temp swings, try like hell to keep the water cool, obsessively washing my res and stones every tank change, adding ice bottles, pricing chillers, i bet i lost a dozen plants to warm water and gnats. I started adding a pinch of myco grow soluble to the res each week, (I've had the same 9$ 1oz package since last summer and its only about half gone), maybe an 1/8 tsp, and i haven't had a problem since, no rot, no gnats, no ice, no chiller, no washing tubs, basically none of the stuff that makes DWC a hassle. I've learned over the years to go with what i know works for my own plants and take anything read on forums with a grain of salt, and as always to each his/her own, there's more than one way to catch a frog, but we both get the legs in the end


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## WeedFreak78 (Jul 29, 2017)

Tap water chlorine content alone isn't enough to kill the herds. It's dosed to be just above the needed concentrations to keep things in the system somewhat clean, but even the water mains still have biologicals growing in them. Within a couple hours of adding to a res it's already been mostly neutralized, or evaporated, and the herds will be thriving again. Look into water treatment .edu papers. Therss formulas municipalities use for chlorine application rates vs biological load.


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## completenoobie (Jul 29, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> For $150 shipping lol



I meant the HG


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## Budley Doright (Jul 29, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> I meant the HG


Yes so did I . It's ridicules the price they want to ship to Canada, I haven't looked for 5 months since the start of my last indoor so perhaps it's approved now, don't need it for another 2 months as I'm outdoors for the summer .


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## completenoobie (Jul 29, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Yes so did I . It's ridicules the price they want to ship to Canada, I haven't looked for 5 months since the start of my last indoor so perhaps it's approved now, don't need it for another 2 months as I'm outdoors for the summer .



Damn. I found a listing with free shipping, maybe...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251682081026


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## Budley Doright (Jul 29, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> Damn. I found a listing with free shipping, maybe...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251682081026


 why the refills, as much as I like the stuff I would be hard pressed to by a rebottled product and even more so as it has a shelf life .


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## completenoobie (Jul 29, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> why the refills, as much as I like the stuff I would be hard pressed to by a rebottled product and even more so as it has a shelf life .



First try for me, don't wanna buy a bunch of something I end up not liking.

It was the cheapest version possible, social security doesn't even pay the rent much less all these luxuries


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## Budley Doright (Jul 29, 2017)

This is the only one on Amazon CA so she's not quite $150 lol, but fuck really and they want $12.00 shipping for a quart .


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## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2017)

Aeroknow said:


> Yeah, like I had said, not sure exactly how many ppm's it is.
> I have been adding this much every 3 days for as long as I've been using a cloner. Zero slime this way.


Good to know, in case anything goes sideways.


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 29, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Can you not use a meter or some kind of test strips to measure?


Go to your local hot tub store and get their chlorine test strips. You only want 1-3ppm of free chlorine. The reason you can't just add that much is because your bacterial load will use some or all of the chlorine, so keep adding it until you get to 1-3ppm of free chlorine.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 29, 2017)

completenoobie said:


> First try for me, don't wanna buy a bunch of something I end up not liking.
> 
> It was the cheapest version possible, social security doesn't even pay the rent much less all these luxuries


Oh I'm not criticizing at all just surprised at the price of the stuff, when I bought it it was $55 with free shipping for a gallon which last three or four runs. Honestly with the chiller I have not had any issues at all touch wood .


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## WeedFreak78 (Jul 30, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> View attachment 3986692 This is the only one on Amazon CA so she's not quite $150 lol, but fuck really and they want $12.00 shipping for a quart .


Look for Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens. It's the same bacteria in HG, that and water. Here's HGs analysis, just make sure it's at least as concentrated. 

Bacillus amyloliquefaciens* 0.038%
INERT INGREDIENTS 99.962%
TOTAL 100%
*Contains a minimum of 1.00x10^4 cfu’s / ml

It's a bacteria. When I was hydro, I thought about running a bubbler with some rocks in it, and keeping it lightly fed to cultivate a herd. Then just dose res from there and replenish that with water. I can't see it being much different than any other micro herd.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 30, 2017)

WeedFreak78 said:


> Look for Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens. It's the same bacteria in HG, that and water. Here's HGs analysis, just make sure it's at least as concentrated.
> 
> Bacillus amyloliquefaciens* 0.038%
> INERT INGREDIENTS 99.962%
> ...


Thanks, I'll see what I can find. As much as I haven't had any issues I do think it helped with the actual health of plants and roots compared to adding nothing. Thanks again!


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## Budley Doright (Jul 30, 2017)

Every product I have tried to replace the HG has (powder) turned the water black .


----------



## ttystikk (Jul 30, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> Every product I have tried to replace the HG has (powder) turned the water black .


Humates and fulvates will do that. Did you see them listed in the ingredients? They won't hurt anything.


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## Budley Doright (Jul 30, 2017)

ttystikk said:


> Humates and fulvates will do that. Did you see them listed in the ingredients? They won't hurt anything.


No but I'll have a look, thx!


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## Ogf (Feb 3, 2018)

Can you please explain your mixing ratio to get 1mil per gallon in rez to equal 1ppm? I would like to make 2 gallon batches and dose at 1mil per gallon in my Rez to each 1ppm. Thanks in advance


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## Budley Doright (Feb 3, 2018)

Ogf said:


> Can you please explain your mixing ratio to get 1mil per gallon in rez to equal 1ppm? I would like to make 2 gallon batches and dose at 1mil per gallon in my Rez to each 1ppm. Thanks in advance


.001 ml per litre will be 1 ppm, sorry I'm Canadian lol, convert litres to gallons will give you 3.79 so .0039 ml per gallon I think lol. Just vaped some concentrate and I'm confused lol.


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## rkymtnman (Feb 3, 2018)

Ogf said:


> I would like to make 2 gallon batches


just so you are aware, just like liquid laundry bleach, your solution will become weaker every time you open the lid and expose it to air. 

i prefer weighing out the pool shock and dose every res change.


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## Rahz (Feb 3, 2018)

Hypochlorite is converted to chloramine in the presence of nitrogen. Are you guys taking this into account?


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## rkymtnman (Feb 3, 2018)

Rahz said:


> Hypochlorite is converted to chloramine in the presence of nitrogen. Are you guys taking this into account?


only if you're running aquaponics, your fish wont' like it. 

chloramine is probably an even better disinfectant than chlorine since it doesn't break down when exposed to oxygen


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## redi jedi (Feb 3, 2018)

Rahz said:


> Hypochlorite is converted to chloramine in the presence of nitrogen. Are you guys taking this into account?


Why? Chloramine works too. I dose my tap water with shock before I add nutes, not an issue IMO.


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## Rahz (Feb 3, 2018)

Hypochlorous acid disassociates into hypochlorite. This indicates there's no hypochlorous acid in pool shock or bleach. Presumably since hypochlorous acid doesn't readily react with nitrogen it will stay in solution longer, but how long I'm not sure and as soon as it disassociates into hypochlorite in a nutrient solution it will convert into chloramine. Once an effective level of hypochlorous acid has dissasociated the protection is about zero. UC Roots, which is HClO based doesn't specify how long it provides protection, so it's possible it remains mostly intact with proper PH for a week or more, but that's just a guess based on a product label.

The dosage recommendation for Pythoff (chloramine based) at the labels listed gauranteed analysis comes out to 29 ppm. Conventional wisdom suggests 4 ppm hypochlorite keeps water sterile, which suggests chloramine is 7x weaker than hypochlorite.

The main point is that if you add bleach to a nitrogen solution, there's not going to be any hypochlorite in the solution. It get's converted into chloramine within minutes. Chloramine sterilizes just fine, but if you're dosing based on 4 ppm hypochlorite you end up with around 4 ppm chloramine which probably isn't going to offer any protection. That is also a guess based on product lables, but I think it's worth looking into.


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## rkymtnman (Feb 3, 2018)

Rahz said:


> The main point is that if you add bleach to a nitrogen solution, there's not going to be any hypochlorite in the solution. It get's converted into chloramine within minutes


doesn't the ratio of chlorine to ammonia have to be close to 5:1 to produce chloramine?

if you are adding 1ppm chlorine to a res with maybe 9 ppm of ammonia (7grams maxibloom), your ratio is not correct to even produce chloramine?


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## Rahz (Feb 3, 2018)

rkymtnman said:


> doesn't the ratio of chlorine to ammonia have to be close to 5:1 to produce chloramine?


That's just the ratio needed to produce chloramine without chemicals being left over, possibly uses ammonia because it's the cheaper form of nitrogen. I'm not a chemist so I can't give you hard answers, but like I said it's something worth looking into. 

This all started for me when I noticed 20 ppm hypochlorite in a nutrient solution wouldn't phase the rot, however 5 ppm in plain water would turn dark brown rot light tan within several hours. It seemed like the nutrient solution was affecting the ability of the bleach to sterilize so I started doing some research.

I would be happy for an authority on the subject to drop in and clear things up.


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## rkymtnman (Feb 3, 2018)

Rahz said:


> That's just the ratio needed to produce chloramine without chemicals being left over, possibly uses ammonia because it's the cheaper form of nitrogen. I'm not a chemist so I can't give you hard answers, but like I said it's something worth looking into.
> 
> This all started for me when I noticed 20 ppm hypochlorite in a nutrient solution wouldn't phase the rot, however 5 ppm in plain water would turn dark brown rot light tan within several hours. It seemed like the nutrient solution was affecting the ability of the bleach to sterilize so I started doing some research.
> 
> I would be happy for an authority on the subject to drop in and clear things up.


i'm with ya. my last chem class was in 1987. 

all i know in laymens' terms is that pool shock works well.

i'm using a hydroguard replacement at the moment for the last few grows. works just as well too.


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## Ogf (Feb 23, 2018)

How much pool shock do I need to a Rez that's 190 gallons and I also have one that's 120 gallons?


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## rkymtnman (Feb 23, 2018)

Ogf said:


> How much pool shock do I need to a Rez that's 190 gallons and I also have one that's 120 gallons?


for 1 ppm, it's 0.10 grams per 10 gallons. i ran at 3 ppm, so 0.30 grams/10gallons. up to 5 ppm is safe


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## Ogf (Feb 23, 2018)

rkymtnman said:


> for 1 ppm, it's 0.10 grams per 10 gallons. i ran at 3 ppm, so 0.30 grams/10gallons. up to 5 ppm is safe


Thanks


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## nutcase (Dec 18, 2018)

Budley Doright said:


> .001 ml per litre will be 1 ppm, sorry I'm Canadian lol, convert litres to gallons will give you 3.79 so .0039 ml per gallon I think lol. Just vaped some concentrate and I'm confused lol.


That's assuming the concentration of what ever you're adding is 100%, right?

If you were adding household bleach, it's usually anywhere from 4% to 10% hypochlorite, so 0.001ml per L or 0.00379 per gallon wouldn't get you anywhere near 1ppm. It's that right? I almost had a heart attack before I realised that as I use 2.5ml bleach (4%) every 3-4 days for both of my my 32L res


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## redi jedi (Dec 22, 2018)

nutcase said:


> That's assuming the concentration of what ever you're adding is 100%, right?
> 
> If you were adding household bleach, it's usually anywhere from 4% to 10% hypochlorite, so 0.001ml per L or 0.00379 per gallon wouldn't get you anywhere near 1ppm. It's that right? I almost had a heart attack before I realised that as I use 2.5ml bleach (4%) every 3-4 days for both of my my 32L res


1mg/L = 1ppm, but that calc is for adding dry concentrate to water, not sure if it works for liquid bleach. Go back to the first page, all the math is there.


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## fartoblue (Nov 28, 2019)

Rahz said:


> That's just the ratio needed to produce chloramine without chemicals being left over, possibly uses ammonia because it's the cheaper form of nitrogen. I'm not a chemist so I can't give you hard answers, but like I said it's something worth looking into.
> 
> This all started for me when I noticed 20 ppm hypochlorite in a nutrient solution wouldn't phase the rot, however 5 ppm in plain water would turn dark brown rot light tan within several hours. It seemed like the nutrient solution was affecting the ability of the bleach to sterilize so I started doing some research.
> 
> I would be happy for an authority on the subject to drop in and clear things up.


Some great points made here Rahz on an old thread.
This may be the reason the CH shows on my dip strips at 3ppm but as soon as nutes are added it don't show at all as chloramine dosn't show on the strips.

Maybe it would be a good idea to flush the plants with plain water HC solution before adding the nutrients.


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## redi jedi (Nov 28, 2019)

fartoblue said:


> Some great points made here Rahz on an old thread.
> This may be the reason the CH shows on my dip strips at 3ppm but as soon as nutes are added it don't show at all as chloramine dosn't show on the strips.
> 
> Maybe it would be a good idea to flush the plants with plain water HC solution before adding the nutrients.


Gotta remember rahz had rot before he started dosing with chlorine which is not how to use chlorine. Its best used as preventative measures. So even if its converted to chloramine, its still disinfecting. Add your shock first, then add nutes and your good to go...


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## fartoblue (Nov 28, 2019)

redi jedi said:


> Gotta remember rahz had rot before he started dosing with chlorine which is not how to use chlorine. Its best used as preventative measures. So even if its converted to chloramine, its still disinfecting. Add your shock first, then add nutes and your good to go...


Thank mate, my only worry is when to re-dose if I can't measure it with strips. Say I let my res go 14 days between changes.


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## rkymtnman (Nov 28, 2019)

fartoblue said:


> my only worry is when to re-dose if I can't measure it with strips. Say I let my res go 14 days between changes.


if you went 1ppm every 3 days, you'd be fine. at max you'd be 5ppm at day 15 or so.


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## rkymtnman (Nov 28, 2019)

redi jedi said:


> Gotta remember rahz had rot before he started dosing with chlorine which is not how to use chlorine. Its best used as preventative measures. So even if its converted to chloramine, its still disinfecting. Add your shock first, then add nutes and your good to go...


when i noticed a bit of rot, i'd run just the poolshock and water for a few hrs. then add nutes.


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## redi jedi (Nov 28, 2019)

fartoblue said:


> Thank mate, my only worry is when to re-dose if I can't measure it with strips. Say I let my res go 14 days between changes.


You might not need to re-dose but a few runs will tell you. If you do though, just add the amount you did initially.


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## fartoblue (Nov 29, 2019)

redi jedi said:


> You might not need to re-dose but a few runs will tell you. If you do though, just add the amount you did initially.


Would it just be a case of keeping an eye on the PH then if it started going down for any length of time add some more CH at full 5ppm dose?

I have been running beneficials and my roots were white for the first time this run, but have never ever been able to keep a steady or upward movement of PH, it is always on the drop. I fear the rot is always there just waiting to return (it did come back on a few in the veg system)


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## redi jedi (Nov 29, 2019)

fartoblue said:


> Would it just be a case of keeping an eye on the PH then if it started going down for any length of time add some more CH at full 5ppm dose?
> 
> I have been running beneficials and my roots were white for the first time this run, but have never ever been able to keep a steady or upward movement of PH, it is always on the drop. I fear the rot is always there just waiting to return (it did come back on a few in the veg system)


Well if your roots are looking good, dropping PH is a sign your nute solution is too strong or in rare cases too weak. So look at your plants, and go from there.


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## diggs99 (Nov 29, 2019)

My Canadian bros, what are you using for sterile res and where are you buying it?

The only thing we have around here is the store stocked 3% h2o2....no luck finding pool shock at all or 35% h2o2.

Any suggestions on what or where to buy? im on the east coast if that helps.


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## Budley Doright (Nov 30, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> My Canadian bros, what are you using for sterile res and where are you buying it?
> 
> The only thing we have around here is the store stocked 3% h2o2....no luck finding pool shock at all or 35% h2o2.
> 
> Any suggestions on what or where to buy? im on the east coast if that helps.


You can’t find pool shock? Where are you, Northern Labrador lol. If you can find pure bleach without added scent that should work. I use chilled water so never add anything to sterilize but I do have 5 gallons of 35% H2O2 that I get from a buddy who runs a water filter company. Maybe talk to someone in the business but it’s almost like buying a nuclear bomb now .


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## diggs99 (Nov 30, 2019)

Budley Doright said:


> You can’t find pool shock? Where are you, Northern Labrador lol. If you can find pure bleach without added scent that should work. I use chilled water so never add anything to sterilize but I do have 5 gallons of 35% H2O2 that I get from a buddy who runs a water filter company. Maybe talk to someone in the business but it’s almost like buying a nuclear bomb now .


hahaha

Not northern Labrador, but i can almost see it from here 

Ya man, getting this stuff online and shipped to me has been near impossible. Not having much success at all finding pool shock. lots of 3% h2o2 but its been said to not use that stuff because of the added chemicals


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## Budley Doright (Nov 30, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> hahaha
> 
> Not northern Labrador, but i can almost see it from here
> 
> Ya man, getting this stuff online and shipped to me has been near impossible. Not having much success at all finding pool shock. lots of 3% h2o2 but its been said to not use that stuff because of the added chemicals


Tough one. I was able to go without anything in the winter because I could keep res chilled easily but warmer weather was an issue until I built a chiller. I actually quit growing indoors a couple of years ago but may resurrect the lab in the new year. Well if you have no access to a pool supply store or a Canadian tire I’m at a loss . I also use a pretty robust waterfall type setup so lots of DO.


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## diggs99 (Nov 30, 2019)

Budley Doright said:


> Tough one. I was able to go without anything in the winter because I could keep res chilled easily but warmer weather was an issue until I built a chiller. I actually quit growing indoors a couple of years ago but may resurrect the lab in the new year. Well if you have no access to a pool supply store or a Canadian tire I’m at a loss . I also use a pretty robust waterfall type setup so lots of DO.


This is for an aeroponics setup, so DO shouldnt be an issue, or i would hope not lol

I have access to Canadian Tire, what do they sell? Pool shock or h2o2?

I live in a place where people dont own pools it seems lol


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## Budley Doright (Nov 30, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> This is for an aeroponics setup, so DO shouldnt be an issue, or i would hope not lol
> 
> I have access to Canadian Tire, what do they sell? Pool shock or h2o2?
> 
> I live in a place where people dont own pools it seems lol


They will have pool shock


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## Budley Doright (Nov 30, 2019)

diggs99 said:


> This is for an aeroponics setup, so DO shouldnt be an issue, or i would hope not lol
> 
> I have access to Canadian Tire, what do they sell? Pool shock or h2o2?
> 
> I live in a place where people dont own pools it seems lol


If it’s a true high pressure system then no. I’ve had my worse rot using sprayers though . The root chamber can get extremely warm due to lights and no water covering the roots, it can lead to rot very quickly in some cases.


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