# Any lightworkers?



## ganja man23 (Oct 24, 2012)

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Simple question, are there any lightworkers here? I haven't met any anywhere other than YouTube so I figure this is a good place to ask? Please dont feel Obligated to reply if you don't know what I'm talking about. I realize we are all lightworkers but I wish to speak to those who have figured this out already.[/FONT]​
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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 24, 2012)

Hmm? (ten characters)


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## tyler.durden (Oct 24, 2012)

I'm a Weedworker, these bitches keep me hoppin'...


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## Mister Sister (Oct 25, 2012)

I consider myself a light worker. Nice to meet you


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## Uncle Pirate (Oct 25, 2012)

Yah, I don't work very hard either. Woot!


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 25, 2012)

I work on lights sometimes!!! Though... they usually call that an electrician.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

Mister Sister said:


> I consider myself a light worker. Nice to meet you


Likewise  And like I said we all are wether we realize it or not. 

I was just curious how you've been preparing for the shift? I find myself to still be facing the negative energy ive had to face all year. It seems like I've lost just about everything (school,car,dog,house,respect) to the point where I am at home all day and do nothing.

Anyway that's not important. I just wanted to share this video with you. I hope you watch it if you're not already familiar with bashar. I find listening to it can lift me up on even the dullest of moments. 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PizeHgklxmM


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I work on lights sometimes!!! Though... they usually call that an electrician.


While i normally am all for humour, I was trying to accomplish something else in this thread. Yes Of course I was expecting several smart witted remarks In response to my op, however I did ask that you not say anything unless you want to contribute or at the very least understand what I'm talking about. You see when a guy gets 6 responses, with only one serious one, makes him wonder if people even read the op. namaste


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 25, 2012)

We are merely poking fun at your idea... you can poke fun at my ideas all you want too, i won't be offended... 

Remember... they're just ideas bro.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> We are merely poking fun at your idea... you can poke fun at my ideas all you want too, i won't be offended...
> 
> Remember... they're just ideas bro.


Well i didn't create that idea, if anything i have taken from it and added. The reason i didn't post what i meant by lightworkers was because i didn't want to give the 'textbook definition'. in my opinion a lightworker is simply someone who wants to spread their knowledge or ideas with others, and i suppose it's all in hopes of sharing vital information with them. 

from a very early age i could feel energy emitted from people around me. when i am around happy people i am also much happier myself. the same for when others are angry, i can't begin to describe how many times i've had a good day, i get home and people around me were angry and my mood suddenly declines. when i help someone and they understand me, i light up on the inside because that in itself is a reward for me. i may be wrong in saying this but i believe this is a natural human instinct that we all share. 

while i do realize that it is an idea, i didn't choose to believe this, i merely looked upon what made the most sense based on my own thoughts and surroundings. when i came upon this conclusion i noticed many others with similar traits and they happened to have labelled themselves as light workers. i wasn't sure how else to ask the question since we don't often like to think of ourselves as that in hopes of not sounding like we're trying to be better than others. we're all the same, after all. one love, right?


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## cannabineer (Oct 25, 2012)

I have never been able to "feel energy" despite trying. I don't know how to do this. More importantly, I do not know the procedures for validating that the felt energy is actual, external, and not that oldest trick of the cheatin' meat: an impression. cn


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 25, 2012)

While i do agree with most of what you said, the term "lightworkers, starchildren etc." was derived just recently in the 20th century through "New Age religion" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Age <--Link. 

While i can understand and empathize with the human condition, yes, we all want to feel like we belong, that we have a purpose for being here. Yet, just as, we create our own purpose and meaning... it's just that you have fallen into the new age movement, which in not a bad thing at all. 

Here's a link that provides a lot of information about "lightworkers" - http://www.spiritualitysolutions.com/lightworkers <--Link

Whatever we do, or whatever we believe, or think... we give our life a purpose and/or meaning. A lot of us in this world want to devote our lives to making the world a better place, not just for the human animal, but for all life in general. A lot have many of the feelings described in the link above. But alas, if you are anywhere close to being a good natured, good hearted individual that cares more about the well being of others than yourself, it will be easy to find that everything it describes, sound JUST LIKE ME! Hehehe. 

For all we know, this could be nothing more than a dream, this idea doesn't hold any less, or any more credibility than the beliefs of anyone in the world from which no evidence can be provided to support the claim. 

I agree, we should all be empathetic, compassionate, caring... but i understand that some people can't, or won't attempt to give their lives their own meaning... so instead they replace this with a "divine purpose" to make them feel more special than we really are...because as far as we feeble humans can tell, we are merely a complex arrangement of atoms... a tiny clump of impure carbon and water impotently crawling on a small and unimportant planet. 

I can see why thinking of yourself as a divine bringer of light, would be more fun to think than some unimportant human animal trying his best to make the world a better place for no other reason than it makes you feel good.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> I have never been able to "feel energy" despite trying. I don't know how to do this. More importantly, I do not know the procedures for validating that the felt energy is actual, external, and not that oldest trick of the cheatin' meat: an impression. cn


studies show that if you choose to be around happy people you will be significantly happier yourself (perhaps even enough to notice). like i said haven't you ever had a good day and then you can sense someone is angry and it makes you almost feel awkward in a way? you don't need to sit down and dedicate time to feel energy, you're already doing it wether you realize it or not. that's the wrong mentality because when you sit down and try to feel things based on expectations you have previously set for yourself, this limits your results. my guess is that you're trying to feel something in a way you can interpret (such as the 5 senses, which is what i used to do). i realize now that everything is energy: thoughts,atoms,molecules,light, cookies, etc. 

i'll give you another example if this helps. has anyone ever told a credible lie to you and you straight up thought: wow this guy is definitely bullshitting me? now you have no reason to think they're lying but you just can't help but feel as if they're not telling the truth. this happens to me frequently when i get high but i can recall instances before i ever started smoking).we emit many different types of energies constantly and we also receive energy from others wether we're aware or not (chances are .. not). these can be physically measured believe it or not using frequency devices throughout the wavelength spectrum, from radio waves to gamma rays.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> While i do agree with most of what you said, the term "lightworkers, starchildren etc." was derived just recently in the 20th century through "New Age religion" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Age <--Link.
> 
> While i can understand and empathize with the human condition, yes, we all want to feel like we belong, that we have a purpose for being here. Yet, just as, we create our own purpose and meaning... it's just that you have fallen into the new age movement, which in not a bad thing at all.
> 
> ...


my only belief is string theory which you can find many years' worths of scientific validation, despite it not being completely finished. i choose to think that we are all based on the "one love" or "god" energy and we simply live through it. life before this was much divine and the reason we incarnate here is to learn about ourselves. Just like you find space flexible, i believe time to be much the same thing. i'm not here to make the world a better place because i can't. when we realize what is going on around us, the process will happen naturally. we go through cycles and we will fall again, and rise as we have done in the past. 

you said you want evidence but i have extremely mixed feelings about evidence. while i do love science: what is evidence, think about that. to this day we have not seen the structure of an atom in person so i could just say that there's no such thing, we're all based on tiny doughnuts. the only thing that's not a 'belief' as you say is the fact that we exist. even if this is a dream as you say (i beelieve incarnation on earth to be an illusion, which is a dream more or less). can you tell me you're not here talking to me even if this is a dream? the point is we are here and with string theory i want to say that if you go to the highest dimension of space time (we do not yet know which dimension is the highest, but i would guess the 13th), we will eist within that dimension for all eternity. 

i think it's a little absurd to think that you simply vanish and cease to exist after your life here. the thought of that could drive someone crazy. how can you exist and then just unexist lol. like i said, that would mean energy is being destroyed, which is another fundamental law from my main man newton! and i will say another thing; i do beleive life is absolutley meaningless to everyone except the one experiencing it. as the one living, it is up to you to decide what you want it to mean.


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## cannabineer (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> studies show that if you choose to be around happy people you will be significantly happier yourself (perhaps even enough to notice). like i said haven't you ever had a good day and then you can sense someone is angry and it makes you almost feel awkward in a way? you don't need to sit down and dedicate time to feel energy, you're already doing it wether you realize it or not. that's the wrong mentality because *when you sit down and try to feel things based on expectations you have previously set for yourself, this limits your results.* my guess is that you're trying to feel something in a way you can interpret (such as the 5 senses, which is what i used to do). i realize now that everything is energy: thoughts,atoms,molecules,light, cookies, etc.
> 
> i'll give you another example if this helps. has anyone ever told a credible lie to you and you straight up thought: wow this guy is definitely bullshitting me? now you have no reason to think they're lying but you just can't help but feel as if they're not telling the truth. this happens to me frequently when i get high but i can recall instances before i ever started smoking).we emit many different types of energies constantly and we also receive energy from others wether we're aware or not (chances are .. not). these can be physically measured believe it or not using frequency devices throughout the wavelength spectrum, from radio waves to gamma rays.


I have felt those things, but have never had a need to invoke "energy" to understand them. They've always seemed an organic response to mundane stimuli. 

As for the bolded, you seem to be pre-emptively throwing out any chance of studying this in a consequent way. If a phenomenon displays "coyness", a negative response to being studied, I suspect its goodness or trueness. cn


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> I have felt those things, but have never had a need to invoke "energy" to understand them. They've always seemed an organic response to mundane stimuli.
> 
> As for the bolded, you seem to be pre-emptively throwing out any chance of studying this in a consequent way. If a phenomenon displays "coyness", a negative response to being studied, I suspect its goodness or trueness. cn


you can apply this rule to almost anything. all i meant by that is that when you set expectations for yourself, you're limiting yourself to those expectations. let's say i want to be an engineer, my goal is to make 60k a year. i work hard and then i accomplish this. for all i know i may have won the lottery or gotten a higher paying job doing something easier, like being a liar (some call them politicians).

perhaps i should say this is my belief rather then fact since i have no way of truly providing proof, but i do believe everything is energy whether we can see it or not.


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## cannabineer (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> you can apply this rule to almost anything. all i meant by that is that when you set expectations for yourself, you're limiting yourself to those expectations. let's say i want to be an engineer, my goal is to make 60k a year. i work hard and then i accomplish this. for all i know i may have won the lottery or gotten a higher paying job doing something easier, like being a liar (some call them politicians).
> 
> perhaps i should say this is my belief rather then fact since i have no way of truly providing proof, but i do believe everything is energy whether we can see it or not.


Most expectations are "soft", meaning they can and do change to accommodate changing conditions. I could for example make a goal of becoming an engineer. There exists a well-described procedure for that.
The $60K expectation however is very dependent on a combination of work (get the degree) and luck (hope the job market is good). 

I'm less interested in deciding whether or not i am energy ... than in defining, isolating, testing ways to make real-world use of the idea. While I was not an engineer in my career days, I tend to think like one, and to focus on the tangible. cn


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Most expectations are "soft", meaning they can and do change to accommodate changing conditions. I could for example make a goal of becoming an engineer. There exists a well-described procedure for that.
> The $60K expectation however is very dependent on a combination of work (get the degree) and luck (hope the job market is good).
> 
> I'm less interested in deciding whether or not i am energy ... than in defining, isolating, testing ways to make real-world use of the idea. While I was not an engineer in my career days, I tend to think like one, and to focus on the tangible. cn


i am the same way, i am working on becoming an engineer since i happen to think like one. however i do differ in the sense that i am open to all information, whereas my fellow engineers are all arrogantly spending the majority of their time studying advanced calculus which is frankly wasting their time. because they're doing this, the education system will teach them that they are "smarter" then others because they can accomplish somewhat complex mathematics (i'm an average guy when it comes to mathematics in engineering, if i can pass a calculus course, most people can). in a sense they are "smart" (i hate that word) but who said intelligence is based on mathematics? 

anyways, before you can apply a concept you must first understand it. there are many researching string theory so coming upon a final "Theory of Everything" is a direct application with for using this information. with what respect do you wish to apply this information? are you looking to seek wealth, intelligence, strength, a soul mate perhaps?


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## cannabineer (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> i am the same way, i am working on becoming an engineer since i happen to think like one. however i do differ in the sense that i am open to all information, whereas my fellow engineers are all arrogantly spending the majority of their time studying advanced calculus which is frankly wasting their time. because they're doing this, the education system will teach them that they are "smarter" then others because they can accomplish somewhat complex mathematics (i'm an average guy when it comes to mathematics in engineering, if i can pass a calculus course, most people can). in a sense they are "smart" (i hate that word) but who said intelligence is based on mathematics?
> 
> anyways, before you can apply a concept you must first understand it. there are many researching string theory so coming upon a final "Theory of Everything" is a direct application with for using this information. with what respect do you wish to apply this information? *are you looking to seek wealth, intelligence, strength, a soul mate perhaps?*



I won't confuse math skill with intelligence. However, my point was different: an engineer likes tangibles, stuff on which [he] can lay his hands, feel the changes, test what works. It's the test aspect that appeals to me. If one cannot even define the test, one has the right to question that there is a phenomenon and not just random or systematic error. I won't posit soul if the model runs well without. 

As to the bolded: my hopes are more modest. Health would be nice. 

If I'm jacking your thread, I apologize. cn


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> I won't confuse math skill with intelligence. However, my point was different: an engineer likes tangibles, stuff on which [he] can lay his hands, feel the changes, test what works. It's the test aspect that appeals to me. If one cannot even define the test, one has the right to question that there is a phenomenon and not just random or systematic error. I won't posit soul if the model runs well without.
> 
> As to the bolded: my hopes are more modest. Health would be nice.
> 
> If I'm jacking your thread, I apologize. cn


that was a great answer. i can't directly apply the law i was speaking to you about earlier to make you have better health. i can offer you this information which i have learned simultaneously with what i like to call the "universal laws" i mentioned above. i have learned that much of the food we ingest today is "poisoned" for lack of a better word. the healthiest way to become healthy is to monitor what you ingest. and touching back on scientific stuff, this will be the first that i have credible information for. 

the average diet of the american is based on eating mostly acidic foods (PH of 6.99 or below; foods such as meat,french fry grease, chips, etc), on average i will claim 80/20 acidic to basic ratio based on my own diet before i changed it. anyway this ratio results in an acidic solution in your bloodline and the cells cannot perform optimally. what we must strive for is a ratio of 70/30 with the basic foods in the majority. Most fruits, vegetables are basic in terms of their pH level so these are recommended. another major problem in terms of 'decalcifying your pineal gland' is to not take in fluoride anymore. i won't get into how bad that is because quite frankly i could make a new thread about it. 

anyways here is evidence as i promised. this video shows the change in red blood cells from an acidic ph vs a basic one, and you can see the difference yourself and it is quite spectacular. red blood cells are one of the fundamentals to healthy bodies as of course they take oxygen from organ to organ. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vhHe55s9rg&feature=related


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 25, 2012)

Simply stated, we all have to deal with death in our own ways. As I've said before, death awareness is the price we pay for self awareness. 

Some of use deal with death by pretending that we are still going to exist when we die... so really, what this means is, that most people in the world deal with the certainty of death by pretending that our bodies will die, but a part of us will still live on. 

I would tell you that i do not fear death, which is why i don't partake in such fantasies... yet, you would also respond the same way, that you do not fear death, but there is one difference... you partake in the fantasy, where as i do not. Which is ok! Don't get me wrong. I understand the fact that i do not know, just as i hope you understand that fact as well, that we cannot be certain if we do, or do not have a soul. 

"The goal of life is happiness,

Our unhappiness is caused by fear (and in association, pain),

Our main fear is of death,

If we can overcome fear of death, we can be happy." -_Epicurus _

The only way some human animals can achieve this, is by pretending that there is no death... 

The more humans figure out about the brain, the chemical reactions and neuron transmissions, the more we find out that the brain (which is matter) is what fosters consciousness, and when our brain is damaged, so the consciousness is damaged as well. When the brain dies, so does consciousness... as far as we feeble human animals can tell. 

Like i say, i am certain of nothing (this could all just be a dream derived from a god for all i fuckin know)... but as Carl Sagan once most inspiringly said, 

"Extraordinary claims, requires extraordinary evidence" 

Where there is empirical and tangible evidence to back up my claims, there is NONE to back up yours besides hearsay. -------


How are we to differentiate between what we know, and what we don't know? What is reality, and what isn't? We can only base these things on what empirical and tangible evidence we can provide for ourselves with our senses. 

Indeed, reality could just be a dream, or a computer simulation, among billions of other ideas... but the fact of the matter is that there are things that exist within this reality that can be tested, studied, and measured. The things that exist within this so called reality that can be tested, studied and measured... as well as proven to be true beyond a reasonable doubt by everyone, not just one person, those are the things that can be depicted as evidence as well as proof of existing in this reality. 

That which cannot be tested, studied, and measured... we can not provide any tangible evidence to base these claims in this reality. Therefor they will always be found in the realm of imagination, rather than reality. UNLESS of course, science find's out a way to test and measure whatever claim you make that has no evidence... once it can be measured, we will have evidence of it's existence in this reality.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Simply stated, we all have to deal with death in our own ways. As I've said before, death awareness is the price we pay for self awareness.
> 
> Some of use deal with death by pretending that we are still going to exist when we die... so really, what this means is, that most people in the world deal with the certainty of death by pretending that our bodies will die, but a part of us will still live on.
> 
> ...


Look man I'm not trying to be a dick but I don't want to read all that. I made this thread for a different reason not to debate wether or not there's life after death. The way I see things we are like two blind men debating over what colors look like. That's not what I want from this post, I just want to know if any light workers were here and to be honest I don't really need this debate. Goodbye and best of luck my friend.


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## greenswag (Oct 25, 2012)

I have never heard the term of light worker, but judging by what you've said I'm one too, it's nice to meet you. Like neer I love being able to touch things with my hands and build and see the changes and other things in an engineering sense, but beyond that I most prefer and am most interested, in the intangible things in life. My entire life all I have thought about, and will continue to think about, are abstract things and ideas including peoples energies. I just recently started to practice seeing auras around people with very little success, but there still is success in that. I pick up on how people feel almost too much it seems, I hate being happy and then picking up someones negative energy and it immediately brings me down. OR even though this may sound weird maybe you can understand, have you ever felt upset, something major happens like someone close to you dying, and just for a little bit, you WANT to feel upset. You want to get it through your system and nourish that feeling so you can better put it behind you, but someone comes along all happy and you start picking up that energy and your like "NO I want to feel sad for a couple hours to a day, god dammit let me feel sad!" I could probably talk a LOT about this stuff and many other things about spiritual intangible ideas lol

really shitty run on sentences with too many commas in here sorry


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

greenswag said:


> I have never heard the term of light worker, but judging by what you've said I'm one too, it's nice to meet you. Like neer I love being able to touch things with my hands and build and see the changes and other things in an engineering sense, but beyond that I most prefer and am most interested, in the intangible things in life. My entire life all I have thought about, and will continue to think about, are abstract things and ideas including peoples energies. I just recently started to practice seeing auras around people with very little success, but there still is success in that. I pick up on how people feel almost too much it seems, I hate being happy and then picking up someones negative energy and it immediately brings me down. OR even though this may sound weird maybe you can understand, have you ever felt upset, something major happens like someone close to you dying, and just for a little bit, you WANT to feel upset. You want to get it through your system and nourish that feeling so you can better put it behind you, but someone comes along all happy and you start picking up that energy and your like "NO I want to feel sad for a couple hours to a day, god dammit let me feel sad!" I could probably talk a LOT about this stuff and many other things about spiritual intangible ideas lol
> 
> really shitty run on sentences with too many commas in here sorry


Youre not alone at all. The main thing I imagine we can all relate to is that we want to see this world live up to its full potential. I see a beautiful planet with amazing scenery and wonderful people as well. The term "lightworker" is just a word. Much like the word god. I use both terms for lack of better ones but I think the ideas are the same.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> Look man I'm not trying to be a dick but I don't want to read all that. I made this thread for a different reason not to debate wether or not there's life after death. The way I see things we are like two blind men debating over what colors look like. That's not what I want from this post, I just want to know if any light workers were here and to be honest I don't really need this debate. Goodbye and best of luck my friend.


I thought you wanted to think... but apparently i am wrong. No worries, maybe someone else will read it and get something from it.


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## Mister Sister (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> Youre not alone at all. The main thing I imagine we can all relate to is that we want to see this world live up to its full potential. I see a beautiful planet with amazing scenery and wonderful people as well. The term "lightworker" is just a word. Much like the word god. I use both terms for lack of better ones but I think the ideas are the same.


I couldn't agree more.

For me, dealing with the shift has been extremely challenging, but somehow uplifting. It's hard to describe.

Yoga, Reiki, Tai Chi, meditation, and creative visualization have been my saving graces. These are the things that have truly changed my life for the better. They allow for the removal of stress from the body, from parts that you don't normally 'use' or would even consider areas of 'stress'. 

Right now I am concentrating on 'fixing' myself, undoing my own personal blockages - which I would highly urge any person to do at this point in time, it is critical. We are the generation of people called to anchor and seed light in this world. We are the eagles of the new dawn. Much like the flower children of the 60s, we are in a consequent planetary cycle right now where our ideas are able to flourish and manifest much easier than in any other time in history. In my opinion, the people of the 60s lost their way in the exact thing that many of them found it in - expanded consciousness. Drugs opened a doorway to a higher realm, however these people got lost in the skies and forgot about the ground on which their bodies resided.

We are the next wave of souls in the same set of planetary alignments. The archetypes we associate ourselves with are given precedence by the heavens. Like I said before, we are building a foundation for the future - a bridge for others to cross when ready. There is nothing 'better' about us, only different. All people and all viewpoints are equal in cosmic terms, even people like Hitler are no better or no worse. All beings serve their purpose.

At any rate, keep the good vibes going my brother. I am very happy to come in contact with you. It is very difficult, sometimes extremely depressing, when I put thoughts out to the public and it is met with alarming ears. However, it is my path and every day I am finding out what my truth is and how best to put it to use. What a beautiful learning process for us all. It has been an extremely humbling and beautiful life, albeit very challenging in many ways. Let us bring peace to the earth day by day, moment by moment. 

Blessings to all,

MS


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 25, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I thought you wanted to think... but apparently i am wrong. No worries, maybe someone else will read it and get something from it.


Not really much at all to think about. Its not hard to understand what side of the argument you are on. You knock on wood, therefore you are almost certain there is wood there, you take the world for face value because thats all you can experience with your senses (Minus the mystical lucid dreaming ). Why should we be enthused about your ideas if you cant take ours seriously? You have nothing to prove man, and so far your arguments have swayed an impressionable southern kid to your side, is it really worth it?


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## Mister Sister (Oct 25, 2012)

Zaehet -

I completely hear what you are saying and admire the fact that you put your ideas out there for others to see.

The only thing I would like to say about your posts is this - you _can_ be certain of your infinity. You can know your soul. You can communicate with your higher self. It is a challenging road but the efforts are well worth it brother. Every effort made will always be rewarded. Please consider the idea that you can know things that to most people are 'unknowable'.

PM me if you would like assistance in this matter. I know what you are and what you are capable of. You are immaculate, perfect, beautiful shining light in the sky. Believe it or not your potential is limitless.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I thought you wanted to think... but apparently i am wrong. No worries, maybe someone else will read it and get something from it.


one last statement/ question i will make. why are you in the spirituality section? you have made it clear that you believe nothing beyond this life (therefore you are NOT spiritual), so why bother taking that right of thought away from others? i'm going to go ahead and guess that you must seek validation by disproving others. you are not alone but i don't care for this attitude. 

this section is for those of us who wish to share our ideas with others. your presence here has only been to take away from our ideas by claiming we have no proof (while your only proof is a claim that there is a lack of proof). with all due respect i don't think this is an appropriate forum for the corresponding attitude you have shown as it can be quite irritating to some.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 25, 2012)

Mister Sister said:


> Zaehet -
> 
> I completely hear what you are saying and admire the fact that you put your ideas out there for others to see.
> 
> ...


You have a wonderful way with words, Mister Sister. I enjoy reading what you have to say, I wish to achieve the balance that you have but I've been procrastinating on a bunch of self searching practices. You sound just like the people I sometimes talk to on another site. I think your attempts to reason with Zaehet are useless though... He often experiences the magic of lucid dreaming yet he is still almost certain it is only neurons and chemicals causing it. He also told me that even if "god" were to be proven scientifically, he still wouldnt believe it because this all could be a computer simulation or a dream. (the dream part is right lol)


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> one last statement/ question i will make. why are you in the spirituality section? you have made it clear that you believe nothing beyond this life (therefore you are NOT spiritual), so why bother taking that right of thought away from others? i'm going to go ahead and guess that you must seek validation by disproving others. you are not alone but i don't care for this attitude.
> 
> this section is for those of us who wish to share our ideas with others. your presence here has only been to take away from our ideas by claiming we have no proof (while your only proof is a claim that there is a lack of proof). with all due respect i don't think this is an appropriate forum for the corresponding attitude you have shown as it can be quite irritating to some.


I predict a bunch of negative responses from the skeptics. They say that they are staying true to philosophy, which is also apart of this sub forum, and philosophy encourages questioning of ideas, like we are trying to convince the atheists of something instead of sharing our similar views with like minded people. Im pretty sure they know that we are not trying to recruit people, so you would have to think that their intentions dont benefit anyone but themselves and those that pat them on the back.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

Mister Sister said:


> I couldn't agree more.
> 
> For me, dealing with the shift has been extremely challenging, but somehow uplifting. It's hard to describe.
> 
> ...


that was very heart warming to read and i have learned from it myself. i am still working on clearing my own blockages and find myself struggling at times at well. this is rather embarrassing but i found myself crying the other day (the scary part is that i had no idea why i was crying), but i ended up wondering why i would ever choose such an experience. while this life is beautiful in itself, i do often wish i was home (ironically i can't even remember what home is) but the thought of going where i belong is the warmest feeling i have felt in my life.

i believe up until the quarantine is over (the 21st of December), we will continue to face the negative energy that has emerged from our lives. once we face and deal with this i truly believe we can move on. and i agree with you completely on the subject of good and evil. we are all as observers and the reality is that i cannot think of any difference between what we consider good and evil, they are all crucial lessons to be learned. some of us have chosen a path of drug abuse, jail time and other negative environments in hopes of finding our true selves. 

i have noticed that when i meditate i haven't had the progress i have hoped for. perhaps i should do this more but it seems like someone is always here to bother me. it's also significantly more progressive when i am medicated. i'm quite excited that you and greenswag have replied to me. even today i was feeling like i've been facing nothing but negative energy from these guys and it's a bit frustrating since that wasn't my intention.


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## Mister Sister (Oct 25, 2012)

Thank you Chief for your kind words. Is it coincidence that eagle is in your name? Please reconsider searching inside of yourself. Inside of yourself is the map of the entire cosmos.

I fully believe that Zaehet can do anything he sets his mind to accomplishing, as can we all.

Please consider letting him into your heart.

Very grateful to meet you all, 

MS


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## Mister Sister (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> i have noticed that when i meditate i haven't had the progress i have hoped for. perhaps i should do this more but it seems like someone is always here to bother me. it's also significantly more progressive when i am medicated. i'm quite excited that you and greenswag have replied to me. even today i was feeling like i've been facing nothing but negative energy from these guys and it's a bit frustrating since that wasn't my intention.


Believe me, I feel your frustrations. I am happy to find common ground with others of a like mind. Let us not forget to be persistent, without judgement on ourselves. We will fall off of the bandwagon but it is our innate drive to succeed that will ultimately trump our 'failures' and lead us to the life we were born to live. This is how I quit smoking cigarettes. Even when I was smoking I would tell myself that it is okay because I am soon not going to be doing it at all. This can be a tricky slope for a person who secretly wants to continue, however diligence and integrity will win every time.

We are the same person living in different bodies. Again, I am so happy to have found these parts of myself. This is truly a great time to be alive and I want to extend my hand to all beings willing to extend theirs back.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 25, 2012)

Mister Sister said:


> Thank you Chief for your kind words. Is it coincidence that eagle is in your name? Please reconsider searching inside of yourself. Inside of yourself is the map of the entire cosmos.
> 
> I fully believe that Zaehet can do anything he sets his mind to accomplishing, as can we all.
> 
> ...


I admire your reluctance to show anything that even hints at negativity, seems effortless lol. I agree that Z could accomplish "knowing" if he put his mind to it, but the belief he is currently passionate about is all about not knowing and atheism and he seems dead set in his ways... I know the benefits of meditation and what not, Im just really lazy though. I tried meditation a couple of times sober but I was too scatter brained and got discouraged. I tried it once while high on marijuana and it was an amazing experience. I instantly felt the relaxation and after a minute it started to seem like a psychedelic trip and my amazement took me out of the silence and I was frustrated again lol I will be sure to practice meditation this weekend... Just not with weed, my recent heart condition prevents me from smoking weed, scary things happen to my heart when Im high.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I predict a bunch of negative responses from the skeptics. They say that they are staying true to philosophy, which is also apart of this sub forum, and philosophy encourages questioning of ideas, like we are trying to convince the atheists of something instead of sharing our similar views with like minded people. Im pretty sure they know that we are not trying to recruit people, so you would have to think that their intentions dont benefit anyone but themselves and those that pat them on the back.


they can think what they want but frankly im done with this debate, not why i came here. light spreads upon the darkness and brightens it up, not the other way around.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 25, 2012)

...yep, the point of life is happiness. What does it take to have true happiness? A seed, some water, some light, 5 months...hehe 

...lightworker is a term that I 'distrust' simply because it's a pseudo-mainstream thought on 'no thought'. Energy worker? Well, which energy? I'll take 'worker of lead' as _potential_ly true because it is where our consciousness is most of the time. In a fixed state. To really be 'free', a person should be free to study metaphysics as well as physics and not identify with either.

Is it really a 'free' person that denies knowledge?...seems like denial in a way. To be free we have to know what we are trying to be free of - usually ignorance.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> one last statement/ question i will make. why are you in the spirituality section? you have made it clear that you believe nothing beyond this life (therefore you are NOT spiritual), so why bother taking that right of thought away from others? i'm going to go ahead and guess that you must seek validation by disproving others. you are not alone but i don't care for this attitude.
> 
> this section is for those of us who wish to share our ideas with others. your presence here has only been to take away from our ideas by claiming we have no proof (while your only proof is a claim that there is a lack of proof). with all due respect i don't think this is an appropriate forum for the corresponding attitude you have shown as it can be quite irritating to some.


Spirituality has a broader definition than the one you give, and does not necessarily need to include magic, mysticism and the afterlife - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality - 

an inner path enabling a person to discover the essence of his/her being; or the "deepest values and meanings by which people live."

Spiritual experiences can include being connected to a larger reality, yielding a more comprehensive self; joining with other individuals or the human community; with nature or the cosmos

Sam Harris if very interested in spirituality and studies it exhaustively. He is also a leading skeptic and staunch atheist. Also, this section is for Sexuality and Philosophy, as well...


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 25, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Also, this section is for Sexuality and Philosophy, as well...


...but, are either of those a place for arrogance?


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

Mister Sister said:


> Thank you Chief for your kind words. Is it coincidence that eagle is in your name? Please reconsider searching inside of yourself. Inside of yourself is the map of the entire cosmos.
> 
> I fully believe that Zaehet can do anything he sets his mind to accomplishing, as can we all.
> 
> ...


i wish i could have such an amazing attitude dealing with these things. the truth is i know what i must do and i even do it certain days. after much bickering i finally give up and it's sad that my mood is so reflective of my actions. since we are here what is your opinion on cannabis and our ascension? many have told me that it affects the memory, which is the key to figuring out who we were in past lives (in order to remember the lessons learned from them). i like getting high and to be honest i find myself in a much more unconditionally loving state. seeing as how there's no physical side effects from cannabinoids, i choose to continue with using it.


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## cannabineer (Oct 25, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...but, are either of those a place for arrogance?


Sexuality ... if you're gifted.  cn


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 25, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Sexuality ... if you're gifted.  cn


...pfft, it's all fairy tales man!


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## cannabineer (Oct 25, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...pfft, it's all fairy tales man!


If that's the way you swing ...


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Spirituality has a broader definition than the one you give, and does not necessarily need to include magic, mysticism and the afterlife - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality -
> 
> an inner path enabling a person to discover the essence of his/her being; or the "deepest values and meanings by which people live."
> 
> ...


however this thread is not is it?

all of the above things you have mentioned are things you choose to not believe in so again, why do you choose to be here? i am seeking a valid answer as to why you keep replying to my thread, not why you post in this forum, sorry for the confusion.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 25, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> If that's the way you swing ...


...I was hoping you weren't going to ghost edit my post to 'tails'


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## cannabineer (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man, allow me to introduce eye exaggerate. He is your and my common ground. He works light in the spirit-sense, which will please you. He also works light with a wonderfully subtle sense of humor, which does it for me. Maybe your day (and thread) will turn around now. cn


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> however this thread is not is it?
> 
> all of the above things you have mentioned are things you choose to not believe in so again, why do you choose to be here? i am seeking a valid answer as to why you keep replying to my thread, not why you post in this forum, sorry for the confusion.


...good day 

...Tyler's response was great if a person can read it with no pre-'something or other'. He does not believe, but is mostly polite about talking to the believers (imo). I think he was addressing the common philosophical ground we all share.

...or, I'm pretty high? Ok, both...


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 25, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> ganja man, allow me to introduce eye exaggerate. He is your and my common ground. He works light in the spirit-sense, which will please you. He also works light with a wonderfully subtle sense of humor, which does it for me. Maybe your day (and thread) will turn around now. cn


...thanks baneer! Likewise, as evidenced by the 1200 or so stocks I have in your _like_ portfolio


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## tyler.durden (Oct 25, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...but, are either of those a place for arrogance?


Well... Maybe sexuality


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...good day
> 
> ...Tyler's response was great if a person can read it with no pre-'something or other'. He does not believe, but is mostly polite about talking to the believers (imo). I think he was addressing the common philosophical ground we all share.
> 
> ...or, I'm pretty high? Ok, both...


i disagree with you there, he was a pretty big asshole to me before. all he did was go through my sentances (one by one) claiming i can't prove anything which isn't what im here to do. if this tyler fellow has something meaningful to say i'd love to hear it. but i already sense that won't be the case. 

in his attempt to try to 'disprove' my opinions he left me with the assumption that he does not agree with them therefore does not agree with spirituality. i did not come upon that definition but even the definition he gave me was one that he seemed to disagree with. all i basically heard from him was that there is no meaning and unless you can measure it with numbers it doesn't exist.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...yep, the point of life is happiness. What does it take to have true happiness? A seed, some water, some light, 5 months...hehe
> 
> ...lightworker is a term that I 'distrust' simply because it's a pseudo-mainstream thought on 'no thought'. Energy worker? Well, which energy? I'll take 'worker of lead' as _potential_ly true because it is where our consciousness is most of the time. In a fixed state. To really be 'free', a person should be free to study metaphysics as well as physics and not identify with either.
> 
> Is it really a 'free' person that denies knowledge?...seems like denial in a way. To be free we have to know what we are trying to be free of - usually ignorance.


i believe that when science joins with spirituality this will be the most amazing technological advance in our history.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> i disagree with you there, he was a pretty big asshole to me before. all he did was go through my sentances (one by one) claiming i can't prove anything which isn't what im here to do. if this tyler fellow has something meaningful to say i'd love to hear it. but i already sense that won't be the case.
> 
> in his attempt to try to 'disprove' my opinions he left me with the assumption that he does not agree with them therefore does not agree with spirituality. i did not come upon that definition but even the definition he gave me was one that he seemed to disagree with. all i basically heard from him was that there is no meaning and unless you can measure it with numbers it doesn't exist.


...and then, once the spirit of offense subsided, the all embracing love that is light (and should be worked with - right now) took over?


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## cannabineer (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> i believe that when science joins with spirituality this will be the most amazing technological advance in our history.


Believe me when i say that I would *love *that. However, to date, there has been no mutually acceptable overlap. The scientists have nothing that'll show on a detector ... to show them "which way forward". And the spirit-workers don't usually have an empathy for and understanding of the limitations a scientist must accept. cn


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> i believe that when science joins with spirituality this will be the most amazing technological advance in our history.


...totally agreed!  At present, science is not receptive enough to 'let' the answers come. We're 'forcing' them. Big difference between force and _power_.


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## Mister Sister (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man said:


> *i believe that when science joins with spirituality this will be the most amazing technological advance in our history. *


Ha ha I am so happy to hear you say that! That sums up so much of what I believe!

I have been led to the use of crystals, but in a different kind of way. Something to do with vibration and resonance...thought and that-which-thought-creates...everything is vibrating...when you hit C on a piano, all other C's vibrate with it...I digress..

As far as how cannabis is affecting my spiritual development? I feel like it is teaching me about addiction. What a gentle way to learn, with cannabis. I feel very fortunate to realize that I am an addict without being addicted to 'harder' drugs. In the end, I know I will eventually stop smoking. However, at this point, I am still unable to grasp the totality all of the lessons it has to teach me. This is but a chapter in an eternity of living lessons. Pleased to be here with you, right in the middle of it!


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Believe me when i say that I would *love *that. However, to date, there has been no mutually acceptable overlap. The scientists have nothing that'll show on a detector ... to show them "which way forward". And the spirit-workers don't usually have an empathy for and understanding of the limitations a scientist must accept. cn


i hope to see this gap closed during my incarnation. i'm a born scientist as this has always been what i have excelled in at school. spirituality is new to me and the way i see it i'm being prepared as many of us are. one thing we can all agree on; certainly interesting times we are living in.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

Mister Sister said:


> ganja man said:
> 
> 
> Ha ha I am so happy to hear you say that! That sums up so much of what I believe!
> ...


that's exactly how i feel about cannabis as well. i can't help but feel like i need to get high for enlightenment and meditation but yet i know i shouldn't have to. 

on a side note i've been trying to look into crystals and i have to ask what is the price for an average crystal?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 25, 2012)

...something from Erowid on the subject.


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## cannabineer (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> i hope to see this gap closed during my incarnation. i'm a born scientist as this has always been what i have excelled in at school. spirituality is new to me and the way i see it i'm being prepared as many of us are. one thing we can all agree on; certainly interesting times we are living in.


Allow me to ask, then ... what pushed you through the barrier, by way of experience?

I realize it's a super personal question and won't be offended if you decline to answer. But in my instance, the inability to proof what I cannot quite rescue from dismissal as "brain noise" has kept me on the mundane side of the divide. cn


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Allow me to ask, then ... what pushed you through the barrier, by way of experience?
> 
> I realize it's a super personal question and won't be offended if you decline to answer. But in my instance, the inability to proof what I cannot quite rescue from dismissal as "brain noise" has kept me on the mundane side of the divide. cn


i've said this before but i don't categorize myself into any group, be it atheist religionist etc. i almost regret the title of light worker because it is relative to new age movement and i've said this before but i don't need groups to validate myself despite the fact that i share similar beliefs. i do this in order to be taken somewhat more seriously seeing as how people will automatically dismiss ideas based upon your belonging to a certain group. 

as for my experience i would say it started as early as when i smoked weed. i wondered how such a plant could be ilegal and then i questioned society. anyways this last year is when my ascension truly started. i have lost more than you could ever imagine. I lost my house (yes i moved to a bigger one, not by choice) and also all my friends that i have spent years with, i lost my dog, my girl, i lost my car, i bought another car and then i lost that one, i have been required to withdraw from my engineering course in university, and most importantly i lost the respect that those who are important to me once had and this is because i choose to smoke weed. i've lost enough things in the last year to make me go insane but instead i saw it as an opportunity.i started eating healthy i found myself listening to many spiritual leaders on youtube and i finally came upon the realization that i am not here by accident. i'm dealing with many problems i have faced in my lifetime and others now and i realize i must confront these problems so i can move on with my life and ascend.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> i disagree with you there, he was a pretty big asshole to me before. all he did was go through my sentances (one by one) claiming i can't prove anything which isn't what im here to do. if this tyler fellow has something meaningful to say i'd love to hear it. but i already sense that won't be the case.
> 
> in his attempt to try to 'disprove' my opinions he left me with the assumption that he does not agree with them therefore does not agree with spirituality. i did not come upon that definition but even the definition he gave me was one that he seemed to disagree with. all i basically heard from him was that there is no meaning and unless you can measure it with numbers it doesn't exist.


Point of clarification, you seem to be confusing Tyler with Zaehet. 

Point of order, Zaehet backed off once he was asked to.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 25, 2012)

...in its synthesis, lightworking can be said to be working with your consciousness. I suppose, for the most part, that we 'form' things with our consciousness simultaneously in multiple dimensions using the light (color / sound?) of that particular plane 

...just playing around with the idea.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 25, 2012)

I just see brothas of tha dawkness!.. lol


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...in its synthesis, lightworking can be said to be working with your consciousness. I suppose, for the most part, that we 'form' things with our consciousness simultaneously in multiple dimensions using the light (color / sound?) of that particular plane
> 
> ...just playing around with the idea.


I'll agree with tha definition, it's more or less how I think of it.

We shift from different parallel realities many many times every second.If you pick up your lamp and move it from one place to another, it is essentially not the same lamp since you changed its vibrational frequency by changin it's location. All energy is based off of a certain vibration. It will continue to vibrate at Its own frequency until acted upon by an external force. More advanced civilizations have found artificial methods of manipulating frequencies and recreating the reality for whatever purpose. Think of it like typing in coordinates of latitude and longitude in google maps. Everything has a corresponding vibrational frequency. Our solar system, the sun, earth and everything in it.

Matter is vibrating at a low enough frequency that it appears solid. This ties in with string theory. You can think of yourself existing in every single dimension from the highest one up to the one you are experiencing at the moment. If you look at the highest dimension you will find yourself within it (along with every conceivable energy that is part of our omniverse). In higher dimensions other colors that are not found on the light spectrum can be observed.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 25, 2012)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-DLSyU7y97M
for those who care: bashar- life after death.


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 25, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> Simple question, are there any lightworkers here? I haven't met any anywhere other than YouTube so I figure this is a good place to ask? Please dont feel Obligated to reply if you don't know what I'm talking about. I realize we are all lightworkers but I wish to speak to those who have figured this out already.​
> ​


Before reading the thread through I would answer:

I am not sure I have been wondering if we all are?


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 26, 2012)

I really like this one to help me - I also lost all that except the respect and I would point like to point to you that is negative thinking and also that I will always miss my Luna(dog) but she made certain I had the best damn replacement she could find and that I own a house not rent now and my car has since been replaced with a better one and I learn more by schooling myself it is how I learned all this. 



[video=youtube_share;pG5tovLCREc]http://youtu.be/pG5tovLCREc[/video]



ganja man23 said:


> Likewise  And like I said we all are wether we realize it or not.
> 
> I was just curious how you've been preparing for the shift? I find myself to still be facing the negative energy ive had to face all year. It seems like I've lost just about everything (school,car,dog,house,respect) to the point where I am at home all day and do nothing.
> 
> ...


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## ganja man23 (Oct 26, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> I really like this one to help me - I also lost all that except the respect and I would point like to point to you that is negative thinking and also that I will always miss my Luna(dog) but she made certain I had the best damn replacement she could find and that I own a house not rent now and my car has since been replaced with a better one and I learn more by schooling myself it is how I learned all this.
> 
> 
> 
> [video=youtube_share;pG5tovLCREc]http://youtu.be/pG5tovLCREc[/video]


Please allow me to take that statement back. I stated it that way so canabineer could relate to it in the greatest way possible for him since he was asking the question. I believe there is no such thing as definitive negativity. All those things that happened to me are positive because ultimately I learned from them and benefited. I wasushed in a certain direction and let's just say I followed my heart. We can never lose by following our hearts and pursuing our joys. Unlike you I have yet to find replacements for many of these things and I'm not quite looking for them. For me it was another lesson to be learned in which I must separate myself from what others think of me and all the materialistic things that society offers.


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 26, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> Please allow me to take that statement back. I stated it that way so canabineer could relate to it in the greatest way possible for him since he was asking the question. I believe there is no such thing as definitive negativity. All those things that happened to me are positive because ultimately I learned from them and benefited. I wasushed in a certain direction and let's just say I followed my heart. We can never lose by following our hearts and pursuing our joys. Unlike you I have yet to find replacements for many of these things and I'm not quite looking for them. For me it was another lesson to be learned in which I must separate myself from what others think of me and all the materialistic things that society offers.


Oh dear, are you trying to help cn join our side as well? I think we need to be patient with him.

[video=youtube_share;9gBna3zozRo]http://youtu.be/9gBna3zozRo[/video]


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## Mister Sister (Oct 26, 2012)

ganja man said:


> *i'm dealing with many problems i have faced in my lifetime and others now and i realize i must confront these problems so i can move on with my life and ascend. *


Good for you. Not only are you healing future generations, you are simultaneously healing past ones as well.

All of the loss in your life is for good reason, and you seem to be handling it well. Much respect for ya.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 26, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> Oh dear, are you trying to help cn join our side as well? I think we need to be patient with him.
> 
> [video=youtube_share;9gBna3zozRo]http://youtu.be/9gBna3zozRo[/video]


Theres only only one side, the rest haven't realize it. If they need science as validation I can promise them that in my reality I will have this validation within the next two decades. There are forces working against science. For fucks sake were still debating over whether or not aliens are real while these guys are flying metallic and non metallic craft (non physical) over our skies. 

Fortunately or unfortunately, however you view it, if they are vibrating at a low frequency after the quarantine, that is what their reality will bring their physical being and nothing wrong with that. We all have a lesson or two to learn here.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 26, 2012)

I am not here to offend anyone, i am here to help others think, to help others open their minds to different concepts and ideas. I am here to think, to learn, to gain insight. I am here to try help people question their ideas, to really put thought behind them. To ask ourselves why we have the ideas we do, where did we get them from?

To help people understand that our ideas come from our culture, our environment, and the way we were raised. If we change any one of those, the way we would have experienced life, and the ideas that were introduced to us would have been completely different. 

There are examples of this all over the world, based on the differences we have within each culture we grew up in. 

To not doubt, is to set our reason aside, and that's as good as taking our brains out of our head and setting it on the table. The true freedom is the recognition that whatever this is (existence, life, reality) could quite literally be ANYTHING. 

You have no more basis or credibility saying that we have a soul, than i do saying we don't. You have no more basis or credibility saying that your idea about reality and the afterlife are true, compared to the infinite possibility of what this reality and afterlife may be. 

This could be a dream, it could be a computer simulation, it COULD be anything! The possibilities are only limited to our imaginations. When we take an idea and claim certainty to it, that puts a limit on our imaginations, and deters us from trying to figure out more about "reality", the way the universe works, as well as deterring us from contemplating others ideas. 

Simply stated, you COULD be wrong, or you could be right... so could i, so could every thinking creature in the universe. That to claim certainty of an idea, that cannot be certain, is certainly absurd. This reality has just as much of a possibility of being a dream or a simulation as it does being whatever it is that you think it is. 

But, the human animal doesn't want to think that there exists the possibility of their ideas being wrong... because it fills them with fear.


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## cannabineer (Oct 26, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> Theres only only one side, the rest haven't realize it. If they need science as validation I can promise them that in my reality I will have this validation within the next two decades. There are forces working against science. For fucks sake were still debating over whether or not aliens are real while these guys are flying metallic and non metallic craft (non physical) over our skies.
> 
> Fortunately or unfortunately, however you view it, if they are vibrating at a low frequency after the quarantine, that is what their reality will bring their physical being and nothing wrong with that. We all have a lesson or two to learn here.


What evidence do we have for either of those claims? What forces, and sourced from where, do you see opposing science?
And as for aliens, what good evidence is there for them? 

Humans have a simply fantastic capacity for self-deception. I mean, a majority of Americans plaice some credence in astrology, which can so easily be shown to be not only preposterous ... but more interestingly, it reveals something about the nature of our credulity. 
I think that the current obsession with aliens, esp. "ultraterrestrials", a hybrid between aliens and plain ol' ghosts, also feeds on a psychic quirk that resides in our headmeat.

It's my wariness around this credulity, the reckless *wish *for there to be soul, to be magic ... that stays my hand and does not allow me to accept such claims without something hard ... material evidence, something that can be detected, recorded, measured in time and distance. When someone mentions vibrations, my immediate counterresponse is to request information on amplitude and frequency. Characteristic of any vibration is amplitude and frequency, and if you stack vibrations, you get a spectral response, as shown by solar or voice spectrograms. No spectroscopy ... no vibration. Simple, and the burden is on the claimant to make with the frequencies, amplitudes ... and transduction hardware. cn


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## tyler.durden (Oct 26, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> Oh dear, are you trying to help cn join our side as well? I think we need to be patient with him.





cannabineer said:


> What evidence do we have for either of those claims? What forces, and sourced from where, do you see opposing science?
> And as for aliens, what good evidence is there for them?
> 
> Humans have a simply fantastic capacity for self-deception. I mean, a majority of Americans plaice some credence in astrology, which can so easily be shown to be not only preposterous ... but more interestingly, it reveals something about the nature of our credulity.
> ...



I don't think the Bear is switching camps anytime soon. He's got this mental block that causes him to think critically, use logic and reason, and most sinfully, demands empirical evidence for his beliefs. Crazy-ass bear...


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 26, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> I don't think the Bear is switching camps anytime soon. He's got this mental block that causes him to think critically, use logic and reason, and most sinfully, demands empirical evidence for his beliefs. Crazy-ass bear...




...are you trying to switch me? Youuuuuuuuuuuuu  -DeNeero

(Pad, I'm not duping your Heisenyoda image, I made this a while back  )


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## ganja man23 (Oct 26, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> I don't think the Bear is switching camps anytime soon. He's got this mental block that causes him to think critically, use logic and reason, and most sinfully, demands empirical evidence for his beliefs. Crazy-ass bear...


the only thing crazy to me is the reason why you are lingering here. if you want to debate spirituality then go make your own thread, this isn't a debate.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 26, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> What evidence do we have for either of those claims? What forces, and sourced from where, do you see opposing science?
> And as for aliens, what good evidence is there for them?
> 
> Humans have a simply fantastic capacity for self-deception. I mean, a majority of Americans plaice some credence in astrology, which can so easily be shown to be not only preposterous ... but more interestingly, it reveals something about the nature of our credulity.
> ...


the deception is absolutely correct and i promise you that you have been deceived on the alien subject. as far as spirituality, that's your choice.

i suppose you still believe the pyramids were built by ancient egyptians using nothing but sticks and stones? most engineers today will tell you that we cannot build such a structure even today with all our technology (cranes,power tools,etc). in fact we have built one and it was 1/40 the size of the giza pyramid and took us ages seeing as how they supposedly built the pyramids in 20 years. what's even more amusing is the fact that we are taught that these people built the pyramids when to this day there is absolutely no evidence the egyptians build them. not a single hieroglyph and not a single body (supposedly of kings or queens) was found within any of the pyramids. the mathematical properties they hold including the fact that it is located in the EXACT CENTRE of all the land mass on the planet is an indication to me that the designers knew exactly what they were doing. they incorporated many fundamental mathematical properties through it's dimensions (such as pi and the golden ratio) which were not discovered until thousands of years later.

if you were an egyptian and you build all that shit why the hell would you at least not put your name or something on it? and explain the fact that different civilizations build these different structures that align to form a power grid all over the planet. these were all recorded at a time in which NO FLYING MACHINES EXISTED. i


prove to me how the ancient egyptians found the exact centre of the land mass and formed lines with other structures built by different civilizations when they were unable to leave the ground. prove to me how they guessed pi right to 5 decimal places when they had no record of discovering the pi constant. 

in addition to this i would hope that the thousands of ufo sightings (including sightings from high ranking government officials and thousands of civilians at the same time) would be enough of a wake up call.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 26, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> the only thing crazy to me is the reason why you are lingering here. if you want to debate spirituality then go make your own thread, this isn't a debate.


One thing you should keep in mind, this is a public forum where any member can post. In a public forum, ideas and beliefs may be challenged, you may want to prepare yourself for this. If you'd like to discuss things with only like minded people, there are plenty of UFO or spirituality sites where that would probably happen. For the record, I wasn't debating, I was just stating an observation about Neer. You say you are here to learn, but I haven't seen any questions from you. How can one learn without questioning? Take your last post to Neer, you are stating your ideas as fact as nowhere do you say these are merely your ideas or your opinions. Your post also sounds dangerously close to debate (heaven forbid!). Another thing to keep in mind is that the regulars here have seen all of your arguments before regarding UFOs, the Pyramids and other ancient complex structures, vibration and the misuse of the term energy (the ability to do work), etc.. You bring up no original ideas so far, if you look through the past threads you can see the counters and debunking of this type of thing. Also, it's good forum etiquette to provide links from credible sources for controversial claims, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. For instance, we know of many ways these ancient structure could have been built, here's a cool BBC program that shows how the pyramids were built - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwiic6BoleQ
There's another cool Nova that shows university students moving huge stones with ropes and pulleys in an attempt to demonstrate how this was done, I'll try to find it but I bet someone will beat me to it. Granted, these real world techniques are not as exciting as screaming, 'Aliens done it!', but probably more accurate...


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## ganja man23 (Oct 26, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> One thing you should keep in mind, this is a public forum where any member can post. In a public forum, ideas and beliefs may be challenged, you may want to prepare yourself for this. If you'd like to discuss things with only like minded people, there are plenty of UFO or spirituality sites where that would probably happen. For the record, I wasn't debating, I was just stating an observation about Neer. You say you are here to learn, but I haven't seen any questions from you. How can one learn without questioning? Take your last post to Neer, you are stating your ideas as fact as nowhere do you say these are merely your ideas or your opinions. Your post also sounds dangerously close to debate (heaven forbid!). Another thing to keep in mind is that the regulars here have seen all of your arguments before regarding UFOs, the Pyramids and other ancient complex structures, vibration and the misuse of the term energy (the ability to do work), etc.. You bring up no original ideas so far, if you look through the past threads you can see the counters and debunking of this type of thing. Also, it's good forum etiquette to provide links from credible sources for controversial claims, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. For instance, we know of many ways these ancient structure could have been built, here's a cool BBC program that shows how the pyramids were built - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwiic6BoleQ
> There's another cool Nova that shows university students moving huge stones with ropes and pulleys in an attempt to demonstrate how this was done, I'll try to find it but I bet someone will beat me to it. Granted, these real world techniques are not as exciting as screaming, 'Aliens done it!', but probably more accurate...


once you explain how they build these by being precisely aligned on a global scale i will more then welcome any evidence. debunk this before we go any further.

the way i see it i'm building bridges, you're building walls. now i will refer to my original post saying please don't feel obligated to post. sadly i'm not as wise as Mister Sister who chooses to not waste energy dealing with people trying to push me backwards.

listen to madonna my friend: you only see what your eyes want to see; how can life be what you want it to be? your broken.

[video=youtube;pbhByOf6dnY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbhByOf6dnY[/video]

madona knows, trust me....


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## Heisenberg (Oct 26, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> once you explain how they build these by being precisely aligned on a global scale i will more then welcome any evidence. debunk this before we go any further.


First you must show that global alignment is real, or any of the other outrageous claims made about the pyramids. The burden of proof falls to those claiming aliens. We can see the evolution of pyramid design, including the bent pyramid whose construction was changed half way up when they realized the base would not hold the weight. 

You have accepted the claims of alien pyramid builders without doing any research. You have not bothered to separate fact from rumor.



> the way i see it i'm building bridges, you're building walls. now i will refer to my original post saying please don't feel obligated to post. sadly i'm not as wise as Mister Sister who chooses to not waste energy dealing with people trying to push me backwards.


 If you want to be taken seriously, you can not simply label those who disagree as building walls and pushing you back.. If this is your goal, use the PM system for your discussion instead of making it public. In these forums your views will be challenged. You can not expect others to listen to you and at the same time demand not to listen to others.


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## Mister Sister (Oct 26, 2012)

Edit - 

Nevermind! 

Interesting discussion.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 26, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> First you must show that global alignment is real, or any of the other outrageous claims made about the pyramids. The burden of proof falls to those claiming aliens. We can see the evolution of pyramid design, including the bent pyramid whose construction was changed half way up when they realized the base would not hold the weight.
> 
> You have accepted the claims of alien pyramid builders without doing any research. You have not bothered to separate fact from rumor.
> 
> ...


Yes, Heis, but what about the appeal to authority to a fount of knowledge such as Madonna? Since she was invoked, he may be onto something...


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## cannabineer (Oct 26, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> the deception is absolutely correct and i promise you that you have been deceived on the alien subject. as far as spirituality, that's your choice.
> 
> i suppose you still believe the pyramids were built by ancient egyptians using nothing but sticks and stones? most engineers today will tell you that we cannot build such a structure even today with all our technology (cranes,power tools,etc).


Are you sure of this? I would think that most engineers would agree with Egyptologists, who consider the pyramids to have been built by human effort using time-appropriate technology.

Ordinarily I dislike Youtube vids, especially when they're used to support a controversial claim. However there are lovely vids of one unassisted man making, moving and stacking ten-ton blocks with simple machines, great patience and no small amount of cleverness. His methods suffice for building a pyramid with a few thousand similarly smart laborers. 


> in fact we have built one and it was 1/40 the size of the giza pyramid and took us ages seeing as how they supposedly built the pyramids in 20 years. what's even more amusing is the fact that we are taught that these people built the pyramids when to this day there is absolutely no evidence the egyptians build them. not a single hieroglyph and not a single body (supposedly of kings or queens) was found within any of the pyramids.


this has been shown to be untrue. Khufu's contains original hieroglyphs.


> the mathematical properties they hold including the fact that it is located in the EXACT CENTRE of all the land mass on the planet is an indication to me that the designers knew exactly what they were doing. they incorporated many fundamental mathematical properties through it's dimensions (such as pi and the golden ratio) which were not discovered until thousands of years later.


Do the land masses even have an exact center? Who did this determination?


> if you were an egyptian and you build all that shit why the hell would you at least not put your name or something on it? and explain the fact that different civilizations build these different structures that align to form a power grid all over the planet. these were all recorded at a time in which NO FLYING MACHINES EXISTED. i
> 
> 
> prove to me how the ancient egyptians found the exact centre of the land mass and formed lines with other structures built by different civilizations when they were unable to leave the ground. prove to me how they guessed pi right to 5 decimal places when they had no record of discovering the pi constant.


 Please show me where they did this. I would prefer a "quality" citation to something from, oh say, Graham Hancock, whose sloppiness of scholarship has been a topic on these boards before.


> in addition to this i would hope that the thousands of ufo sightings (including sightings from high ranking government officials and thousands of civilians at the same time) would be enough of a wake up call.


I am unaware of even a single _confirmed _sighting of an extraterrestrial craft or bit of tech. The thousands of "unconfirmed" I must in the meantime place in the "anecdotal accounts" box, and anecdote is no way to do science.

I recognize that the scientific method and mindset is perhaps not applicable to questions of pure spirit.
However, you've begun to discuss material phenomena here - pyramids, sightings. The scientific method is _à propos_ to the claimed phenomenology, as that is the mundane/ sensory portion of the claimed intersection between spirit-action and the "real world" of objects, events, relations and conditions. And the phenomenology, in order to be acceptable, does need to be subordinated to a correct and appropriate use of reason. (Reason can be abused; thus my conditional statement.) 

And the application of reason to phenomena follows two maxims. One is familiar as Occam's Razor: given two models that account for the observed, the simpler one is the one to choose. The other is the condition of rigor, immortalized by T. H. Huxley's aphorism: "The tragedy of science - a beautiful theory slain by an ugly fact."
Now the first one is a rule of thumb (which i have never seen violated, however), but the second is a hard condition. A theory must account for all available fact. Should a fact contradict, the theory must go. (The alternative is to find that the fact was incorrect. this happens, but less frequently.) If a fact doesn't fit into a theory (and the fact has withstood extensive and hostile review) the theory is in need of being revised or discarded. 

About hostile review: this is very important to doing good science or working within the rational edifice. The common metaphor to consider is "playing the Devil's advocate". This, of course, means nothing diabolical but rather a very practical engineer's sort of attitude. A device isn't proven until it's been proofed: subjected to a strain exceeding nominal max to make sure it's good. ideas can (and should, imo) be proofed the same way. if they cannot stand up to an opposed but fair application of reason, they do not merit the privilege of being called theory. 

It is in this spirit, and nothing personal or genuinely hostile, that i ask you to either provide solid backup for what you claim to be fact ... or be willing to believe that you've been insufficiently critical of your source materials. The hieroglyphs thing is plainly not true. i don't believe the center-of-land or pi claims unless you can show them to me in the peer-reviewed literature. There are many fringe practitioners out there, with Graham Hancock and Terence McKenna two of the more famous ones, whose development of ideas is somewhere between sloppy and fraudulent. Combine this with the both intuitive and well-documented tendency of people having a strong drive to believe ... and you have a bad mix imo. 

So I will be as careful as I can be. I will make no claim attacking the paranormal unless I can provide my reasoning and am willing to subject it to hostile review by my peers. The other side of that coin is that I will not accept a claim with material/mundane content unless it can be authenticated using the rules of the mundane world. 
While science and reason might not be the right tools to fully describe spirit-action, they are the right tools to inspect any and all material phenomena ascribed to such action. The standard to apply is this: a proposed phenomenon must not contradict what we already know about the world. My opinion. cn


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 26, 2012)

So many afraid of the Light!


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 26, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I am not here to offend anyone, i am here to help others think, to help others open their minds to different concepts and ideas. I am here to think, to learn, to gain insight. I am here to try help people question their ideas, to really put thought behind them. To ask ourselves why we have the ideas we do, where did we get them from?
> 
> To help people understand that our ideas come from our culture, our environment, and the way we were raised. If we change any one of those, the way we would have experienced life, and the ideas that were introduced to us would have been completely different.
> 
> ...


You dont help anyone learn though, just those that still have similar views. Just like we only help other that have similar spiritual views. You HAVE to know that by now. So obviously those are not your intentions. Can you tell me something you learned from the other side of the arguments that has nothing to do with your views? Im not talking about answers like "I've learned that people will obliviously lie to themselves".


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 26, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Can you tell me something you learned from the other side of the arguments that has nothing to do with your views?


I did some extensive research and learned about lightworkers and what they are depicted as, and i came across this useful link to provide me with the basis of the idea. 

Neat idea by the way, very romantic. But as you can clearly see it is written so most people can empathize, it reminds me of an extremely long horoscope lol. 

*http://www.spiritualitysolutions.com/lightworkers*

What have you learned?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 26, 2012)

...ok, guys, you're arguing the surface of the matter. Look deeper into the idea of 'lightworkers'. Websites with angels in the background won't help. Consciousness is a seed. If a person retains their seed, they could potentially work with that 'light', or consciousness. Don't believe? No biggie. Try it.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 26, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...ok, guys, you're arguing the surface of the matter. Look deeper into the idea of 'lightworkers'. Websites with angels in the background won't help. Consciousness is a seed. If a person retains their seed, they could potentially work with that 'light', or consciousness. Don't believe? No biggie. Try it.


that's an excellent analogy with the seed, that concept is more or less how consciousness can be viewed. let me add to this. this enlightenment most seek doesn't come from research or even what your belief is. if we follow our hearts and pursue whatever it is that gives us joy we cannot lose from this experience (or any for that matter) no matter what the outcome. we will notice the differences we can make in life simply with a change in perspective. when we eat healthy and meditate regularly is when we are most prone to feeling the change that is occurring on our beautiful planet. the most beautiful energy i have ever felt in my life was what i call the 'one love', which was during my meditation. i felt that not only is earth conscious similar to us (and different) in many ways, but we all share our consciousness from one source. this is what you can truly call 'god' because within it existed the dimensions of infinity, containing every single possible outcome for anything imaginable.

i realize we all are not feeling this increase in energy but i speculate it's anywhere from physical reasons such as diet or even to simply choosing another path on a higher level. we all progress at our own level and there's no right or wrong time; simply put we progress when we are ready. we can't force others upon certain beliefs and leading by force and oppression is unnecessary and simply does not work. the best way to lead is by example. one love.

i should mention it's pretty darn sweet to get high again. took a little smoke break. they don't call it 'high' for nothing.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I did some extensive research and learned about lightworkers and what they are depicted as, and i came across this useful link to provide me with the basis of the idea.
> 
> Neat idea by the way, very romantic. But as you can clearly see it is written so most people can empathize, it reminds me of an extremely long horoscope lol.
> 
> ...


You misunderstood the question. You could google anything and learn the very basics of the subject. What have you gained from the spiritual side of the arguments? 

I have learned to be more structured and calm. I have learned that the atheists here have the same mindset as angry bible thumpers as they try to force their ideas onto others because they are convinced its the correct path to follow. Atheists have little bit more subtle approach though. With you I have learned a lot though, Im not just mentioning these as personal attacks so that I can get a reaction. You have been more open about your beliefs, imo, and that has given me more to work with. You've shown me that there is conflict at the base of your beliefs that you are in complete denial of, and in our last discussion you lashed out at me for pointing it out. Im going to guess that most of the active skeptics on here have similar insecurities. 

I think you should try to figure yourselves out before you try and tell someone of a different mindset how things work. Because really, who have you 'helped' here besides an impressionable southern boy? Sure you have the polite theists that are not phased by the opposing arguments, but they still stand firm in their beliefs. Most of crazies on here would like to discuss with like minded people rather than sway the judgement of others. It took me a while to figure that out but at first I got sucked into the never ending game you guys play for self benefit. 

Knowing yourself is far beyond what a electron microscope or hadron collider can teach you.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You misunderstood the question. You could google anything and learn the very basics of the subject. What have you gained from the spiritual side of the arguments?
> 
> I have learned to be more structured and calm. I have learned that the atheists here have the same mindset as angry bible thumpers as they try to force their ideas onto others because they are convinced its the correct path to follow. Atheists have little bit more subtle approach though. With you I have learned a lot though, Im not just mentioning these as personal attacks so that I can get a reaction. You have been more open about your beliefs, imo, and that has given me more to work with. You've shown me that there is conflict at the base of your beliefs that you are in complete denial of, and in our last discussion you lashed out at me for pointing it out. Im going to guess that most of the active skeptics on here have similar insecurities.
> 
> ...


Why do you continue to belittle Hep by calling him a southern boy? How is it you know the minds of people who read here and can tell that the skeptic opinion is not helping? You can call yourself a lost cause because you know yourself, but you can not speak for the rest of us.


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 27, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> Well i didn't create that idea, if anything i have taken from it and added. The reason i didn't post what i meant by lightworkers was because i didn't want to give the 'textbook definition'. in my opinion a lightworker is simply someone who wants to spread their knowledge or ideas with others, and i suppose it's all in hopes of sharing vital information with them.
> 
> from a very early age i could feel energy emitted from people around me. when i am around happy people i am also much happier myself. the same for when others are angry, i can't begin to describe how many times i've had a good day, i get home and people around me were angry and my mood suddenly declines. when i help someone and they understand me, i light up on the inside because that in itself is a reward for me. i may be wrong in saying this but i believe this is a natural human instinct that we all share.
> 
> while i do realize that it is an idea, i didn't choose to believe this, i merely looked upon what made the most sense based on my own thoughts and surroundings. when i came upon this conclusion i noticed many others with similar traits and they happened to have labelled themselves as light workers. i wasn't sure how else to ask the question since we don't often like to think of ourselves as that in hopes of not sounding like we're trying to be better than others. we're all the same, after all. one love, right?


Thank you ganga, this is the first I have done more than skim the thread(do you ever find it hard to maintain a positive feeling or interest on subjects not comfortable to our brain's programming?) and I have seen the term around youtube and wondered if it meant all the Awakened as I imagine we must be the older souls but right on that Is Me as well lol I am also labeled ADD and in India and the like if you were to describe our disease of ADD to them they would call it a sign that person is an old soul; that we are very wise but are down to the end of our rides on Earth and want to finish up and get home already so we are running from one interest to another desperate to learn it all- it can get lame having to stop and explain what I have learned


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 27, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> I have never been able to "feel energy" despite trying. I don't know how to do this. More importantly, I do not know the procedures for validating that the felt energy is actual, external, and not that oldest trick of the cheatin' meat: an impression. cn


But you are energy cn all matter is energy reduced to a slow vibration.


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 27, 2012)

greenswag said:


> I have never heard the term of light worker, but judging by what you've said I'm one too, it's nice to meet you. Like neer I love being able to touch things with my hands and build and see the changes and other things in an engineering sense, but beyond that I most prefer and am most interested, in the intangible things in life. My entire life all I have thought about, and will continue to think about, are abstract things and ideas including peoples energies. I just recently started to practice seeing auras around people with very little success, but there still is success in that. I pick up on how people feel almost too much it seems, I hate being happy and then picking up someones negative energy and it immediately brings me down. OR even though this may sound weird maybe you can understand, have you ever felt upset, something major happens like someone close to you dying, and just for a little bit, you WANT to feel upset. You want to get it through your system and nourish that feeling so you can better put it behind you, but someone comes along all happy and you start picking up that energy and your like "NO I want to feel sad for a couple hours to a day, god dammit let me feel sad!" I could probably talk a LOT about this stuff and many other things about spiritual intangible ideas lol
> 
> really shitty run on sentences with too many commas in here sorry


Nice to meet you 

I just the other day was meditating and the walls disappeared for about a second I could see all around me and I had this belief I could do it when ever but then it slipped away. It wasn't anything I was practicing or trying I had just become mindful that we are the empty space and voila it was pretty cool


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 27, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I thought you wanted to think... but apparently i am wrong. No worries, maybe someone else will read it and get something from it.


I find it more likely you are a lightworker in denial.


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I predict a bunch of negative responses from the skeptics. They say that they are staying true to philosophy, which is also apart of this sub forum, and philosophy encourages questioning of ideas, like we are trying to convince the atheists of something instead of sharing our similar views with like minded people. Im pretty sure they know that we are not trying to recruit people, so you would have to think that their intentions dont benefit anyone but themselves and those that pat them on the back.


Maybe I can help Chief, how are you? I wasn't that far off from that when I joined just this April -damn folks are waking up fast just like they said eh? I think it is actually a lightworker quality when you see all the hate organized religions create and spread it feels like you should be doing something to help reverse the dangerous group think.


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I admire your reluctance to show anything that even hints at negativity, seems effortless lol. I agree that Z could accomplish "knowing" if he put his mind to it, but the belief he is currently passionate about is all about not knowing and atheism and he seems dead set in his ways... I know the benefits of meditation and what not, Im just really lazy though. I tried meditation a couple of times sober but I was too scatter brained and got discouraged. I tried it once while high on marijuana and it was an amazing experience. I instantly felt the relaxation and after a minute it started to seem like a psychedelic trip and my amazement took me out of the silence and I was frustrated again lol I will be sure to practice meditation this weekend... Just not with weed, my recent heart condition prevents me from smoking weed, scary things happen to my heart when Im high.


My head won't leave my head alone? been there it'll be addictive soon though you wait and I believe what ms was getting at is everything in moderation as I say even broccolli will kill ya if you eat to much of it. Weed WON'T lol but as with everything there needs to be a balance so remember to even out that cocaine with a little opium jk


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 27, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> Theres only only one side, the rest haven't realize it. If they need science as validation I can promise them that in my reality I will have this validation within the next two decades. There are forces working against science. For fucks sake were still debating over whether or not aliens are real while these guys are flying metallic and non metallic craft (non physical) over our skies.
> 
> Fortunately or unfortunately, however you view it, if they are vibrating at a low frequency after the quarantine, that is what their reality will bring their physical being and nothing wrong with that. We all have a lesson or two to learn here.


I feel you we are all One but I submit that there is a them to an us within the One.


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 27, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> First you must show that global alignment is real, or any of the other outrageous claims made about the pyramids. The burden of proof falls to those claiming aliens. We can see the evolution of pyramid design, including the bent pyramid whose construction was changed half way up when they realized the base would not hold the weight.
> 
> You have accepted the claims of alien pyramid builders without doing any research. You have not bothered to separate fact from rumor.
> 
> ...


I find it rather naive for folks to think we are the only intelligent lifeforms in the entire universe.


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## cannabineer (Oct 27, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> But you are energy cn all matter is energy reduced to a slow vibration.


Okay. Since you invoke vibration, I'll ask my standard request of clarification. Frequency, amplitude, spectral distribution? Detector for this vibrational spectrum? "Vibration" is one of those terms that have meaning in physics, and so is "energy". I am not happy when I see the terms used by the magical community, because I see it as an effort to steal some of the legitimacy these terms have acquired through the elaboration of physics. 

Now, in the defense of the magicals, describing the intersection of spirit and the mundane might be very hard, like trying to definitively explain "blue" to a blind person. But in their prosecution, I've seen entirely too much repurposing of physical terms into physically unsupportable situations, like the above "vibrations". Unless, of course, someone can break the great vast eternal unbroken silence and pipe up with the engineering end of it ... detector and spectrum. cn

Postscript: why magicals? Because as long as humans have had a continuous history, we have had a word for the human participation in the action of spirit upon matter, and it is *magic*. cn


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## dashcues (Oct 27, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> I find it rather naive for folks to think we are the only intelligent lifeforms in the entire universe.


Pretty sure that's not was Heisenberg was implying.
What I believe he was stating( and Heis can correct me if I'm wrong) is that we have sufficient evidence to understand how the pyramids were made without alien intervention.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 27, 2012)

dashcues said:


> Pretty sure that's not was Heisenberg was implying.
> What I believe he was stating( and Heis can correct me if I'm wrong) is that we have sufficient evidence to understand how the pyramids were made without alien intervention.


If it wasn't us (no evidence it was us) then it had to be someone "alien" to us. Anyways evidence is irrelevant to those who obtain the information. It's like one never ending orgy of love, trust, information and understanding. the pyramids,stone henge, Easter island,etc were all created in a higher density in order to resonate in many parallel realities in our density. The Giza complex is a navigation tool (aligned perectly with the north east west south directions) and it's placement in the energy grid was at one point something similar to a fueling station for the extraterrestrials who inhabited the earth. 

Our planet was inhabited millions of years before we had been created here.


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## cannabineer (Oct 27, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> If it wasn't us (no evidence it was us) then it had to be someone "alien" to us. Anyways evidence is irrelevant the pyramids,stone henge, Easter island,etc were all created in a higher dimension and they resonate in many parallel realities in our density.


There is some very good evidence that it was our doing, including but mot limited to the fact that we are and have been here at the time, and all the works were in range of human ability and technology. You mentioned something incorrect (as fact) on another thread, something about stones being shaped to a higher precision than we can achieve. If you've ever seen a ten-ton slab of granite polished *optically* smooth as an instrument support (and then air-floated), you'd never countenance that claim again. But as there is not good evidence for alien visitation, that is the idea that would need some help. "No evidence it was us", incorrect as it is, would not equate to "evidence it was not us". My opinion. cn


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 27, 2012)

Well said Neer.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 27, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Well said Neer.


I didnt hear your question but the answer is aliens.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 27, 2012)

^Exactly my friend!


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## ganja man23 (Oct 27, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> ^Exactly my friend!


We're not really just friends were more like family


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## cannabineer (Oct 27, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> I didnt hear your question but the answer is aliens.


Got it, I think. I'll go away now. cn


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## dashcues (Oct 27, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> If it wasn't us (no evidence it was us) then it had to be someone "alien" to us. Anyways evidence is irrelevant to those who obtain the information. It's like one never ending orgy of love, trust, information and understanding. the pyramids,stone henge, Easter island,etc were all created in a higher density in order to resonate in many parallel realities in our density. The Giza complex is a navigation tool (aligned perectly with the north east west south directions) and it's placement in the energy grid was at one point something similar to a fueling station for the extraterrestrials who inhabited the earth.
> 
> Our planet was inhabited millions of years before we had been created here.


But there is evidence that it was us.What there isn't,is evidence that it was ancient aliens.While they are beautiful and admirable in their mass,they have errors that can be attributed to early man.I'm sure aliens coming from outside our solar system could (and would) have done a much better job.For anyone that has seen the pyramids up close and personal,I'm sure they would agree that the pyramids are not as perfectly built as Ancient Aliens would have you believe.
While most of my studies involve biblical research and biblical archaeology,I have done a fair amount of studying on 3rd dynasty Egypt
edited...Sorry...hope that doesn't sound brash.Enjoying the discussion,and high


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## ganja man23 (Oct 27, 2012)

dashcues said:


> But there is evidence that it was us.What there isn't,is evidence that it was ancient aliens.While they are beautiful and admirable in their mass,they have errors that can be attributed to early man.I'm sure aliens coming from outside our solar system could (and would) have done a much better job.For anyone that has seen the pyramids up close and personal,I'm sure they would agree that the pyramids are not as perfectly built as Ancient Aliens would have you believe.
> While most of my studies involve biblical research and biblical archaeology,I have done a fair amount of studying on 3rd dynasty Egypt
> edited...Sorry...hope that doesn't sound brash.Enjoying the discussion,and high


I say aliens for the sake of a reasonable assumption so that all can relate to the concept as opposed to how it actually happened which is a creation based upon a higher dimension. You are correct however it wasnt anyone alien to us.. It was not exactly aliens but rather human beings who were initially created in higher densities then we occupy now. Iit was at the time of Atlantans that the energy grid structures were created and implemented and this is part of our lost history. We were much more spiritually conscious at the time of creating those structures and we were not in the third density vibration like we are now, we existed as a much higher vibrating one since we were so in tune with our spirituality.

I hoped to invoke thoughts and take the credit away from the Egyptians. They DID NOT create the pyramids, they never said they did either.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 27, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> I find it rather naive for folks to think we are the only intelligent lifeforms in the entire universe.


I think it is highly unlikely that we are the only life in the universe as well.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 27, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> I hoped to invoke thoughts and take the credit away from the Egyptians. They DID NOT create the pyramids, they never said they did either.


You cannot convince a believer of anything, for their beliefs are not based on evidence, they are based on a deep seated psychological need to believe.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 27, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You misunderstood the question. You could google anything and learn the very basics of the subject. What have you gained from the spiritual side of the arguments?
> 
> I have learned to be more structured and calm. I have learned that the atheists here have the same mindset as angry bible thumpers as they try to force their ideas onto others because they are convinced its the correct path to follow. Atheists have little bit more subtle approach though. With you I have learned a lot though, Im not just mentioning these as personal attacks so that I can get a reaction. You have been more open about your beliefs, imo, and that has given me more to work with. You've shown me that there is conflict at the base of your beliefs that you are in complete denial of, and in our last discussion you lashed out at me for pointing it out. Im going to guess that most of the active skeptics on here have similar insecurities.
> 
> ...


*Cough cough*...


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## dashcues (Oct 27, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> I say aliens for the sake of a reasonable assumption so that all can relate to the concept as opposed to how it actually happened which is a creation based upon a higher dimension. You are correct however it wasnt anyone alien to us.. It was not exactly aliens but rather human beings who were initially created in higher densities then we occupy now. Iit was at the time of Atlantans that the energy grid structures were created and implemented and this is part of our lost history. We were much more spiritually conscious at the time of creating those structures and we were not in the third density vibration like we are now, we existed as a much higher vibrating one since we were so in tune with our spirituality.
> 
> I hoped to invoke thoughts and take the credit away from the Egyptians. They DID NOT create the pyramids, they never said they did either.


Atlantans as in Atlantis?

Your thoughts are no problem,it's just that your taking away credit where credit is due.There were some very capable humans at the time,no doubt,but still very much human.
And yes,they gave us evidence of their creation.As can be seen in their refinement of construction:

Early 3rd dynasty(Djoser's step pyramid)






early 4th dynasty( bent pyramid)






later 4th dynasty(red pyramid)






and finally Khufu's great pyramid 4th dynasty






As you can see It was a process.If your interested,I would suggest looking at some earlier 3rd dynasty pyramids.Such as their shapes,and construction techniques.Some are quite a stretch from what we now consider "The Pyramids".


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 27, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Okay. Since you invoke vibration, I'll ask my standard request of clarification. Frequency, amplitude, spectral distribution? Detector for this vibrational spectrum? "Vibration" is one of those terms that have meaning in physics, and so is "energy". I am not happy when I see the terms used by the magical community, because I see it as an effort to steal some of the legitimacy these terms have acquired through the elaboration of physics.
> 
> Now, in the defense of the magicals, describing the intersection of spirit and the mundane might be very hard, like trying to definitively explain "blue" to a blind person. But in their prosecution, I've seen entirely too much repurposing of physical terms into physically unsupportable situations, like the above "vibrations". Unless, of course, someone can break the great vast eternal unbroken silence and pipe up with the engineering end of it ... detector and spectrum. cn
> 
> Postscript: why magicals? Because as long as humans have had a continuous history, we have had a word for the human participation in the action of spirit upon matter, and it is *magic*. cn


I think it all goes down to matter can neither be created nor destroyed the law of conservation as well as the law of attraction but then cn I usually turn to you on such matters. I just remember in school F=mv? force equals mass times velocity meaning to me that energy constantly flows and shapes itself and if it is doing it using vibration which I think in terms of how I do sound waves, light waves.. 

Everything in the universe is energy. Nothing is actually solid. Instead objects are made up of microscopic particles vibrating at such a fast rate that they appear solid. Our limited sense of sight doesnt let us see the movement, or vibration, of the particles. Every object, including human organs, have a natural healthy vibratory rate referred to as "resonance". If a part of the body begins to vibrate out of resonance or harmony, it creates what we term dis-ease. Jonathan Goldman, author of Healing Sounds: The Power of Harmonics, says: "If parts of the body become imbalanced, they may be healed through projecting the proper and correct frequencies back into the body." Vibrational Medicine looks at the energy anatomy within and around the physical body. Imbalances and disharmonies are treated using frequencies from flower and gem essences, sound, therapeutic grade essential oils, radionics, homeopathics, acupuncture, color, hands-on healing, and crystals. Each individual sound, color, crystal, or flower essence has a specific quality that is beneficial for a particular human organ, system, or emotion.

http://www.spiritofnature.org/vibrationart.htm[/URL]

See if you feel this 

http://youtu.be/p7yKiJIOSGc


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 27, 2012)

dashcues said:


> But there is evidence that it was us.What there isn't,is evidence that it was ancient aliens.While they are beautiful and admirable in their mass,they have errors that can be attributed to early man.I'm sure aliens coming from outside our solar system could (and would) have done a much better job.For anyone that has seen the pyramids up close and personal,I'm sure they would agree that the pyramids are not as perfectly built as Ancient Aliens would have you believe.
> While most of my studies involve biblical research and biblical archaeology,I have done a fair amount of studying on 3rd dynasty Egypt
> edited...Sorry...hope that doesn't sound brash.Enjoying the discussion,and high


The only thing I find brash is _I'm sure aliens coming from outside our solar system could (and would) have done a much better job. _&#8203;So you can believe in aliens just long enough to decide that they would have done a better job?


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## dashcues (Oct 27, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> The only thing I find brash is _I'm sure aliens coming from outside our solar system could (and would) have done a much better job. _&#8203;So you can believe in aliens just long enough to decide that they would have done a better job?


Yeah...don't you?I can believe in aliens without feeling the need to acquaint them with the pyramids.
If aliens traveled all the way to get here,I'm sure they could do better than this:




from the 3rd dynasty(layer pyramid)

And they left it unfinished.
So yes,I maintain that IF ancient aliens (using technology we can't even begin to touch)traveled light years away from their own home,and IF they would in fact come to earth,and IF they saw fit to build primitive structures here on earth,then yes I believe they could have done a better job.Sorry if you found that brash.


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## cannabineer (Oct 27, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> I think it all goes down to matter can neither be created nor destroyed the law of conservation as well as the law of attraction but then cn I usually turn to you on such matters. I just remember in school F=mv? force equals mass times velocity meaning to me that energy constantly flows and shapes itself and if it is doing it using vibration which I think in terms of how I do sound waves, light waves..
> 
> Everything in the universe is energy. Nothing is actually solid. Instead objects are made up of microscopic particles vibrating at such a fast rate that they appear solid. Our limited sense of sight doesnt let us see the movement, or vibration, of the particles. Every object, including human organs, have a natural healthy vibratory rate referred to as "resonance". If a part of the body begins to vibrate out of resonance or harmony, it creates what we term dis-ease. Jonathan Goldman, author of Healing Sounds: The Power of Harmonics, says: "If parts of the body become imbalanced, they may be healed through projecting the proper and correct frequencies back into the body." Vibrational Medicine looks at the energy anatomy within and around the physical body. Imbalances and disharmonies are treated using frequencies from flower and gem essences, sound, therapeutic grade essential oils, radionics, homeopathics, acupuncture, color, hands-on healing, and crystals. Each individual sound, color, crystal, or flower essence has a specific quality that is beneficial for a particular human organ, system, or emotion.
> 
> ...


Mellow, I understand that matter is _equivalent to_ energy, but calling it energy without qualifiers is dangerously misleading imo. For one thing, they are not freely interconvertible. The science of the limitations on that interconversion is _chemistry_, a field of study near&dear to me. 

Take the bit from the scrunchy-eye text you provided, about the "vibrations" of matter providing the appearance of solidity. The solidity of matter is the consequence of electrons slotting into spatially-defined energy levels we call _orbitals_. They have definible energies, but to describe orbitals as vibrations does a violence to a more subtle concept that can be startlingly beautiful if approached without preconception or agenda. (My opinion.) 
The issue I have with describing phenomena in terms of energy and vibration is that it is often simplistic beyond uselessness and into outright incorrectness. And yet it is so attractive to do so ... because it panders to the human way of looking at things. It's anthropomorphic in a subtle way that needs to be first understood ... and subsequently avoided with care ... in the exploration and construction of a conceptual model for the material universe. 
The text used a bad analogy about vibrations as a defense of healing energy. That doesn't prove that such energy does not exist/cannot be harnessed, of course. But it _does _mean that the writer was talking out of an orifice not designed for speech. And sadly, there is an awful lot of such not-physics that becomes harnessed to pull the wagon of new-age promoters of ... magic. cn


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## tyler.durden (Oct 28, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> I say aliens for the sake of a reasonable assumption so that all can relate to the concept as opposed to how it actually happened which is a creation based upon a higher dimension. You are correct however it wasnt anyone alien to us.. It was not exactly aliens but rather human beings who were initially created in higher densities then we occupy now. Iit was at the time of Atlantans that the energy grid structures were created and implemented and this is part of our lost history. We were much more spiritually conscious at the time of creating those structures and we were not in the third density vibration like we are now, we existed as a much higher vibrating one since we were so in tune with our spirituality.
> 
> I hoped to invoke thoughts and take the credit away from the Egyptians. They DID NOT create the pyramids, they never said they did either.



Wow. It seems almost _everything _you state is pulled from your ass. How much more could possibly be in there?


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 28, 2012)

I'm not sure some of you guys actually understand how big space is.. Most people don't. The closest star system to us is 4.366 light years away, meaning, it would take light (the fastest known object in the entire universe) 4.3 years to reach Earth. Let's break that down...

Going the speed of light: 186,000 miles/second (Earth is 24,901 miles in circumference at the equator), it takes 8.3 minutes to reach Earth from the Sun. Which means, the light you see in the daytime is 8.3 minutes old before you ever see it. Consider that for a moment..

Now consider an object 284,578 x's the distance the Earth is to the Sun. Now multiply 8.3 x's 284,578, the amount of time, going the speed of light, it would take to reach the system from Earth...

4.3 years going the speed of light. We can't break 3% that at current technology. 

But, perhaps an intelligent species has evolved and been around for a billion years.. maybe they can go 30% the speed of light (conservative), it would still take over 15 years to reach Earth if they lived in the closest star system. 

Why would an alien species travel that distance to come to Earth to build _pyramids_...? Why wouldn't they leave anything definitive behind? Why wouldn't they have visited since? Why wouldn't some of them have stayed?


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## tyler.durden (Oct 28, 2012)

^^ I still love this scale Z posted last year. Deep distance, time, and size still blows my mind:

[video]http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/6Mh09h/htwins.net/scale/[/video]


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 28, 2012)

dashcues said:


> Yeah...don't you?I can believe in aliens without feeling the need to acquaint them with the pyramids.
> If aliens traveled all the way to get here,I'm sure they could do better than this:
> 
> 
> ...


lol I must be a wee bit older then you lad it seems the more advanced things get the more they malfunction and we have Human Error maybe they got Alien Error c'mon dude that is some thin thin ice!


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## Heisenberg (Oct 28, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> ^^ I still love this scale Z posted last year. Deep distance, time, and size still blows my mind:
> 
> [video]http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/6Mh09h/htwins.net/scale/[/video]


Wow, I was just thinking it would be kewl if they included Russel's teapot, and there it is! Proof that I am psychic!.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 28, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> Wow, I was just thinking it would be kewl if they included Russel's teapot, and there it is! Proof that I am psychic!.


There is a lot of great humor included in the scale: Earth - You are Here, Water Molecule - I like to think that whenever I drink water, I drink Mickey Mouse Heads, The Estimated sized of the Universe - We are Probably not the center of the universe


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## Heisenberg (Oct 28, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> lol I must be a wee bit older then you lad it seems the more advanced things get the more they malfunction and we have Human Error maybe they got Alien Error c'mon dude that is some thin thin ice!



The point you're missing is that any alien civilization that could visit us would have to be advanced enough to travel here. It is counter-intuitive to think they could master FTL travel and yet be so inept at building structures. That doesn't mean it isn't possible, but it sure would be strange. I don't think it is thin ice to say that we would expect advanced beings to do a better job. The evidence would suggest they traveled here and then had to learn metal working, stone working, pyramid building ect. and then needed many tries before getting it right.

I think the ice is thinnest when you look at human trial and error and say aliens did it. You are piling assumptions on top of assumptions, IOW, you seem to be making all the assumptions you need to explain away the evidence. If something doesn't fit, throw another assumption in. With this method you can make any explanation fit.


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 28, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Mellow, I understand that matter is _equivalent to_ energy, but calling it energy without qualifiers is dangerously misleading imo. For one thing, they are not freely interconvertible. The science of the limitations on that interconversion is _chemistry_, a field of study near&dear to me.
> 
> Take the bit from the scrunchy-eye text you provided, about the "vibrations" of matter providing the appearance of solidity. The solidity of matter is the consequence of electrons slotting into spatially-defined energy levels we call _orbitals_. They have definible energies, but to describe orbitals as vibrations does a violence to a more subtle concept that can be startlingly beautiful if approached without preconception or agenda. (My opinion.)
> The issue I have with describing phenomena in terms of energy and vibration is that it is often simplistic beyond uselessness and into outright incorrectness. And yet it is so attractive to do so ... because it panders to the human way of looking at things. It's anthropomorphic in a subtle way that needs to be first understood ... and subsequently avoided with care ... in the exploration and construction of a conceptual model for the material universe.
> The text used a bad analogy about vibrations as a defense of healing energy. That doesn't prove that such energy does not exist/cannot be harnessed, of course. But it _does _mean that the writer was talking out of an orifice not designed for speech. And sadly, there is an awful lot of such not-physics that becomes harnessed to pull the wagon of new-age promoters of ... magic. cn


wut?  you have a great set up and delivery in place cn don't go changing what ain't broke but you would be advised to remember your audience if you worry about your long posts not being read 

This is what I got from that besides a headache: _energy is not always matter well it is but it isn't because you see these tiny invisible things made of energy are .... my head_


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 28, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> The point you're missing is that any alien civilization that could visit us would have to be advanced enough to travel here. It is counter-intuitive to think they could master FTL travel and yet be so inept at building structures. That doesn't mean it isn't possible, but it sure would be strange. I don't think it is thin ice to say that we would expect advanced beings to do a better job. The evidence would suggest they traveled here and then had to learn metal working, stone working, pyramid building ect. and then needed many tries before getting it right.
> 
> I think the ice is thinnest when you look at human trial and error and say aliens did it. You are piling assumptions on top of assumptions, IOW, you seem to be making all the assumptions you need to explain away the evidence. If something doesn't fit, throw another assumption in. With this method you can make any explanation fit.


We don't need advanced tools like you are thinking to be advanced. We will truly be advanced when all we need is our minds, well mind isn't the right word... we are not our minds in fact. Hey lightworkers check this and by that I am including those who are but not awakened just still hanging around us for some reason  just not until you are awake please it'll come back to you when your perceptions are not so blinded by society you fail to recognize how powerful perception can be in keeping you in the dark.

http://youtu.be/127BR5b8Hm4


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 28, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> My head won't leave my head alone? been there it'll be addictive soon though you wait and I believe what ms was getting at is everything in moderation as I say even broccolli will kill ya if you eat to much of it. Weed WON'T lol but as with everything there needs to be a balance so remember to even out that cocaine with a little opium jk


I am doing great Mellow, how are you? Havent gave meditation another shot yet, gotta clean up my room so its less of a hectic environment lol. Weed is not a friend to a few heart conditions, eventually it can lower your blood pressure but I think thats all the heart benefits to it, I might be wrong. They tried to blame a kids death on marijuana and say that it causes heart attacks, but the kid already had a pre-existing heart condition and the accelerated heart rate and what not from the marijuana triggered his heart attack. Five months ago when these problems started happening I would get a irregular heartbeat when I got high and many other symptoms when Im not high. I quit for a bit, quit cigarettes and cigars too, symptoms went away so I thought it was ok to start smoking again. I was fine for about a month then two weeks ago, 5 minutes after a bong hit, I would feel like I was going to suddenly faint and my heart was beating really slow when I sit down and really fast when I stand up. My doctor is an idiot, thought it was my occasional acid reflux at first, then thought it was my lungs (lungs are completely fine) and now he thinks it might be a neurological disorder (wtf?), but my heart was completely fine when ever heart monitors were on me. He finally referred me to a cardiologist, if he says nothings wrong with me then I dont know what to do... I read in HighTimes that eating whole, raw buds was good for the heart. Im going to be buying a half-o tomorrow and starting medication lol.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 28, 2012)

I've heard you need to activate the cannabanoids with heat before it'll work if you eat it raw, which is why people put it in cannabutter before baking brownies, but I'm not 100% positive.. Do a little research before you eat it whole, you might actually be wasting it.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 28, 2012)

Good to know.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 28, 2012)

Also, I had a friend who was experiencing similar symptoms and he thought he was on the verge of having a heart attack, which only perpetuated the panic attacks he was having! 

His doc gave him an actual heart monitor type instrument, you wrap it around your bicep and record your blood pressure. We were in another state one time and hadn't smoked in damn near 2 months, I had my sister send me some great weed via USPS, it arrived shortly after my bday and 20 minutes before we sparked it I made sure to mention to him "OK, this is gonna be some strong shit, especially since we've been sober for 2 months! Don't overdo it, don't worry about dying!", we smoke for 20 minutes and I reiterate, "don't overdo it!", he says he's fine, then 15 minutes later he's grabbing his heart monitor and telling me "dude! We HAVE TO go to the emergency room!!!", I tell him, "OK, but your mom is going to find out about this if we do that, are you sure?". I drive there, and he takes his reading again in the parking lot, turns out, he had the shit upside down the ENTIRE TIME!!! LMFAO! After about 10 minutes, he finally calms down and we drive back home, but damn, straight up hypochondriac! I'll remember that til I die...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 28, 2012)

hahaha thats too funny. I thought I might be jumping to conclusions at first but too many symptoms happened when Im not high and a couple were happening before I even thought I had a heart problem. Im never worrying about my heart whenever something happens, it just happens. Recently I have been experiencing rapid heart rate for a second just before Im about to doze off and it would send a little jolt through my upper body, climaxing through my hands a fore arms. I hate that because it keeps me up at night and I'd have to miss work.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 28, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> lol I must be a wee bit older then you lad it seems the more advanced things get the more they malfunction and we have Human Error maybe they got Alien Error c'mon dude that is some thin thin ice!


Those pyramids could also be SUPER old and destroyed by an explosion somehow, one of the 'incomplete' pyramids has black ash all over the ground around it. John Anthony West knows whats up. Wasnt too familiar with him until I seen him on a Joe Rogan podcast. The guy is like a genius mad scientist, books on every flat surface of his room. He thinks the pyramids could be older than 30000 years and has convincing arguments to back his claims up. I dont see how so much trust can be put into faulty carbon dating that says dead animals are thousands of years old.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 28, 2012)

Yeah, I'd go get checked out if I were you, the heart isn't anything to fuck around with, you only have one! It was hilarious in retrospect, I knew nothing was going on with him at the time, I've never heard of a 20 year old having a heart attack, so at the time I was just laughing on the inside, it's still funny today.. He admits he was just being a little crazy about it, but at the time he said he felt heart palpitations and an irregular heart beat and I wasn't going to stand in the way of some serious medical shit! The funniest part was when he realized the shit was upside down! Total relief coupled with my conclusion of him being an IDIOT! lol.. Funny moment, that's probably why I'll always remember it.. That weed was crazy strong, I could tell just by looking at it, Orange Kush from Cali, we were in Arkansas having been high off of brown, ditch weed the month before we bought from some shady fucks.. 2 months is a LONG time without smoking! 

That was actually my first attempt at growing weed, we put a seed in a tiny pot with a regular desk lamp above it expecting it to sprout! Of course it didn't and I didn't know why. I think that's actually when I went online to ask some questions and discovered RIU! Circa 2006! 19 years old.. 

Much has been learned since then, 2 successful seasons, about a 1lb-2lbs of dry weed to smoke.. and since about Sept. 11, I've been completely clean trying to figure out what I'd like to do with my life (probably military for 10* years)... Need to test negative going that route.. 

Also have a few cavities to fill before I speak to a recruiter.. as soon as that's taken care of (in the process now), I plan on joining.. 


Anyway... sry to take this thread off topic so much... I believe in aliens, I just don't think they've visited the planet.. That would be the shit if they had, or if they do in the future, though! Might actually shut the devout religious folk up...


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## dashcues (Oct 28, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> lol I must be a wee bit older then you lad it seems the more advanced things get the more they malfunction and we have Human Error maybe they got Alien Error c'mon dude that is some thin thin ice!


Hahahaha...lad. I do appreciate that.

But seriously,there are over 100 pyramids in Egypt alone.Do you give aliens the credit for each and every one? Or is there a selection process?
"c'mon dude" humor me on some specifics


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 28, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I am doing great Mellow, how are you? Havent gave meditation another shot yet, gotta clean up my room so its less of a hectic environment lol. Weed is not a friend to a few heart conditions, eventually it can lower your blood pressure but I think thats all the heart benefits to it, I might be wrong. They tried to blame a kids death on marijuana and say that it causes heart attacks, but the kid already had a pre-existing heart condition and the accelerated heart rate and what not from the marijuana triggered his heart attack. Five months ago when these problems started happening I would get a irregular heartbeat when I got high and many other symptoms when Im not high. I quit for a bit, quit cigarettes and cigars too, symptoms went away so I thought it was ok to start smoking again. I was fine for about a month then two weeks ago, 5 minutes after a bong hit, I would feel like I was going to suddenly faint and my heart was beating really slow when I sit down and really fast when I stand up. My doctor is an idiot, thought it was my occasional acid reflux at first, then thought it was my lungs (lungs are completely fine) and now he thinks it might be a neurological disorder (wtf?), but my heart was completely fine when ever heart monitors were on me. He finally referred me to a cardiologist, if he says nothings wrong with me then I dont know what to do... I read in HighTimes that eating whole, raw buds was good for the heart. Im going to be buying a half-o tomorrow and starting medication lol.


that is really interesting Chief and thanks I have been meaning to look more into juicing cannabis i love eating the raw leaves straight from the garden it is just i need a much bigger garden lol i wonder why no one has gotten to selling the raw fan leaves honestly they have gone from being considered a liability to most indoor growers to worth money! your heart thing you know take it for what it is worth but i got an intense feeling that you are somehow being forced into meditating as noticing all that about your heartbeat is an unusual thing out of meditation and weed is here to help folks like myself get over the meditation hump.... don't clean your room to meditate that has to be the most obvious piece of procrastination bs i have heard lol instead meditate on why you care if your room is clean imo

also try yoga it really helped me when i found the right studio and you know i was just walking the dogs and stopped outside one to read the window postings and the guru came out and he was just so warm and comfortable and i am always anxious around strangers and i was able to smoke up right before the nice walk and the people are radiating so much love out of that place it glows lol


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 28, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I've heard you need to activate the cannabanoids with heat before it'll work if you eat it raw, which is why people put it in cannabutter before baking brownies, but I'm not 100% positive.. Do a little research before you eat it whole, you might actually be wasting it.


No that is the beauty of it! only the thc making it just as safe raw to say fly a plane full of people as not having it and there are So many health benefits from the cbd to boosting your immune system to relieving anxiety it is beautiful plus an affirmative defense in Cali if you seem to be way over your number of plants necessary to your condition because fan leaves are not really so plentiful it turns out.


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 28, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Yeah, I'd go get checked out if I were you, the heart isn't anything to fuck around with, you only have one! It was hilarious in retrospect, I knew nothing was going on with him at the time, I've never heard of a 20 year old having a heart attack, so at the time I was just laughing on the inside, it's still funny today.. He admits he was just being a little crazy about it, but at the time he said he felt heart palpitations and an irregular heart beat and I wasn't going to stand in the way of some serious medical shit! The funniest part was when he realized the shit was upside down! Total relief coupled with my conclusion of him being an IDIOT! lol.. Funny moment, that's probably why I'll always remember it.. That weed was crazy strong, I could tell just by looking at it, Orange Kush from Cali, we were in Arkansas having been high off of brown, ditch weed the month before we bought from some shady fucks.. 2 months is a LONG time without smoking!
> 
> That was actually my first attempt at growing weed, we put a seed in a tiny pot with a regular desk lamp above it expecting it to sprout! Of course it didn't and I didn't know why. I think that's actually when I went online to ask some questions and discovered RIU! Circa 2006! 19 years old..
> 
> ...


I suffer from panic disorder which is bad, really bad. It is getting better but at my worst point I was having them a few times a day over silly silly things like not being able to find something usually the hour before i had to leave for something and of course that was why and I knew my subconscious was messing with me and hiding it but that was really scary to think about! that my brain was fucking with me and then i fainted at my dispensary during one i was trying so hard to make it out without anyone noticing i was panicked and it started getting all black like patch work and then getting myself even to anywhere caused me to realize my brain was suffocating it was my brain why was i not breathing automatically? That is way scary! the thing is it is My brain and I am the only one who gave up my control to it but i psyched myself out because of fear and that perpetuated it.

Your friend's only problem imho was that he was feeling guilty for doing something he was told was wrong. once the idea got planted in his brain it was hurting his heart he worried himself sick.

I am wondering if you were speaking in the past tense about the military i mean that isn't Now?!


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 28, 2012)

dashcues said:


> Hahahaha...lad. I do appreciate that.
> 
> But seriously,there are over 100 pyramids in Egypt alone.Do you give aliens the credit for each and every one? Or is there a selection process?
> "c'mon dude" humor me on some specifics


I don't know them off hand but Chief is correct and so is ganga most likely i can verify that it is very possible they were built 30,000 years ago from scientists mainstream ones they just don't play those ones on mainstream tv you gotta go find them like hidden archaeology stuff try youtube -i don't worry on weather they are credible before i watch i like to take them in as a presentation of their theory and then if it seems plausible go and research their claims


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## ganja man23 (Oct 28, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> ^^ I still love this scale Z posted last year. Deep distance, time, and size still blows my mind:
> 
> [video]http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/6Mh09h/htwins.net/scale/[/video]


the fact that you limit yourself to the speed of light shows you no different and less creative then your fellow tree monkey. you and your friends may not realize it but you're still swinging in trees, throwing feces at each other. all distance is relative to be travelled within an instant. even if you limit yourself to linear displacement, assuming you could replicate speeds near that of light, it could still be travelled in what feels like seconds for many light years. 

i'm here to offer information and you have every right to assume i pulled it out of my ass. so i recommend if you don't like the smell of my asshole, don't reach up there and take big whiffs. i realize the taste of assole is great to some but please show some boundaries.

your evolution of the pyramids is rather amusing but fails to incorporate the giza complex within the energy grid, as a compas lined up with the four directions of the compass, the fact that it incorporates advanced mathematical formulas and not to mention the fact that we cannot build anything these primitives. just like when i offer information and many don't want to listen, i won't be offended. your posts aren't going to convince anyone who knows what they're talking about to change minds, you're simply tooting your horn and nothing wrong with that which is why i would much rather ignore you.


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 28, 2012)

Chief! i was led to this and thanks i was just wondering how in the heck to figure out the head pressure i have been feeling lately like I am suddenly feeling as if in a plane that descended suddenly lol just had one it is the head chakra opening to enlighten us lol your body is just changing vibration it'll pass 

[video=youtube_share;l5ZZuQzgEDg]http://youtu.be/l5ZZuQzgEDg[/video]


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## ganja man23 (Oct 28, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> I don't know them off hand but Chief is correct and so is ganga most likely i can verify that it is very possible they were built 30,000 years ago from scientists mainstream ones they just don't play those ones on mainstream tv you gotta go find them like hidden archaeology stuff try youtube -i don't worry on weather they are credible before i watch i like to take them in as a presentation of their theory and then if it seems plausible go and research their claims


that's exactly what my point about information being suppressed. and the STILL challenged this though. on a website about MARIJUANA!!! you don;t think the truth about cannabis is suppressed information? it's classified under substances for high abuse and no medicinal benefits. if you see all the wonderful things cannabinoids are capable of (not to mention hemp), you will truly find a conspiracy and coming upon that realization is what opened my eyes to much of the information they try to suppress. 

after a while you can spot and predict their actions, much like you can do with humans you know very well. shifty little fuckers they be.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 28, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> Chief! i was led to this and thanks i was just wondering how in the heck to figure out the head pressure i have been feeling lately like I am suddenly feeling as if in a plane that descended suddenly lol just had one it is the head chakra opening to enlighten us lol your body is just changing vibration it'll pass
> 
> [video=youtube_share;l5ZZuQzgEDg]http://youtu.be/l5ZZuQzgEDg[/video]


our dna is changing. on a physical scale i believe this process will unlock more than the amino acids we are limited to today. can't wait till i get my light body. or can't wait to access it shall i say.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 28, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I'm not sure some of you guys actually understand how big space is.. Most people don't. The closest star system to us is 4.366 light years away, meaning, it would take light (the fastest known object in the entire universe) 4.3 years to reach Earth. Let's break that down...
> 
> Going the speed of light: 186,000 miles/second (Earth is 24,901 miles in circumference at the equator), it takes 8.3 minutes to reach Earth from the Sun. Which means, the light you see in the daytime is 8.3 minutes old before you ever see it. Consider that for a moment..
> 
> ...


this is information is relative to those travelling linearly. i can assure you most extraterrestrials don't travel this way. einstein said both space and time are only relative to the observer, both can be warped. he stated that when travelling the speed of light to the observer travelling vast distances would feel like a matter of seconds and on the physical level it would take the literal amount of time relative to the distance travelled. if you travel faster then you can work around this ration to essentially arrive there at the same time as you left or even earlier or later. 

as to the answer, many extraterrestrials have stayed (been trapped on earth) but don't interact with us for the initial reason our planet was quarantined, to give us a freedom of choice and civilizational development. the beings who created us (a new species at the time), did so without permission from their superiors. initially they were told to leave and the earth would be flooded in order to get rid of all of us. enki and enlil came back to earth to warn some of us because they had grown attached to a certain humans. those that showed character traits similar to the ones they desired were much more loved and respected. for this reason enkei went back and warned noah. i think we all know what noah did.

when the alliance (Interstellare Alliance or Galacic Federation of light, i imagine they're a similar group if not different names for the same one) found out that many of us were still alive, they shut down access to the planet for anyone entering, also know as "the quarantine". this was done in order for our natural development. when technology is given to a species primitively they will not understand how truly powerful high technologies can be therefore they must be allowed to develop naturally if they wish to survive. the story depicted in the bible (when the angels rebelled) was because they wanted to simply teach us the technology wheras the fedaration knows this is unethical. "god" didn't want to give us such technology because many times in the past primitive civilizations have wiped each other out. if you look at stories, even today there are ufos that have been shutting down certain nuclear missiles at launching site.

on the 21st of december, the quarantine will be lifted and those who are ready will grasp the threshold energy and ride it up and resonate higher and higher. this doesn't mean there will be mass landings the next day, but the level of interaction between us will not be so limited. remember that we are the brave ones, we chose to be in the front lines of the experience while our brothers and sisters watch from other frequencies.


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## MellowFarmer (Oct 28, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> this is information is relative to those travelling linearly. i can assure you most extraterrestrials don't travel this way. einstein said both space and time are only relative to the observer, both can be warped. he stated that when travelling the speed of light to the observer travelling vast distances would feel like a matter of seconds and on the physical level it would take the literal amount of time relative to the distance travelled. if you travel faster then you can work around this ration to essentially arrive there at the same time as you left or even earlier or later.
> 
> as to the answer, many extraterrestrials have stayed (been trapped on earth) but don't interact with us for the initial reason our planet was quarantined, to give us a freedom of choice and civilizational development. the beings who created us (a new species at the time), did so without permission from their superiors. initially they were told to leave and the earth would be flooded in order to get rid of all of us. enki and enlil came back to earth to warn some of us because they had grown attached to a certain humans. those that showed character traits similar to the ones they desired were much more loved and respected. for this reason enkei went back and warned noah. i think we all know what noah did.
> 
> ...


i am not saying you are incorrect only that i am shocked as i thought all that was part of the disinformation to make the truth look kooky so was this something you have 1st hand on? or something i can go look to if i can?


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 28, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> when the alliance (Interstellare Alliance or Galacic Federation of light, i imagine they're a similar group if not different names for the same one) found out that many of us were still alive, they shut down access to the planet for anyone entering, also know as "the quarantine". this was done in order for our natural development. when technology is given to a species primitively they will not understand how truly powerful high technologies can be therefore they must be allowed to develop naturally if they wish to survive. the story depicted in the bible (when the angels rebelled) was because they wanted to simply teach us the technology wheras the fedaration knows this is unethical. "god" didn't want to give us such technology because many times in the past primitive civilizations have wiped each other out. if you look at stories, even today there are ufos that have been shutting down certain nuclear missiles at launching site.
> 
> on the 21st of december, the quarantine will be lifted and those who are ready will grasp the threshold energy and ride it up and resonate higher and higher. this doesn't mean there will be mass landings the next day, but the level of interaction between us will not be so limited. remember that we are the brave ones, we chose to be in the front lines of the experience while our brothers and sisters watch from other frequencies.


Woah... i had to read that twice to make sure i was reading correctly, and because the giggles were overtaking me. I mean, who's to say that this isn't true, for all i know it could be... but incidentally because of the lack of evidence my skepticism and reason makes me giggle at this claim. 

Remember bro i'm not making fun of you, just your idea...which IS kinda cool! But your certainty of it without any evidence to back it up sounds a little desperate. Just my opinion. 

This is gonna be another one of those 2012 mayan calender threads ill need to subscribe to and come back to in 2013 sometime to poke more fun.

The reason why i like it when people poke fun at my ideas, is that it makes me question them, so ill put more effort into researching them, to make sure i know exactly what im talking about, and what parts of my ideas find their basis in reality, and which parts are in imagination.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 28, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Woah... i had to read that twice to make sure i was reading correctly, and because the giggles were overtaking me. I mean, who's to say that this isn't true, for all i know it could be... but incidentally because of the lack of evidence my skepticism and reason makes me giggle at this claim.
> 
> Remember bro i'm not making fun of you, just your idea...which IS kinda cool! But your certainty of it without any evidence to back it up sounds a little desperate. Just my opinion.
> 
> ...


im glad you got something positive out of this then. im here to offer information to those who receive it, that is all. i my imagination is much more intense then what you call reality. get it out of your head that this is reality...it's a mere illusion.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 28, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Woah... i had to read that twice to make sure i was reading correctly, and because the giggles were overtaking me. I mean, who's to say that this isn't true, for all i know it could be... but incidentally because of the lack of evidence my skepticism and reason makes me giggle at this claim.
> 
> Remember bro i'm not making fun of you, just your idea...which IS kinda cool! But your certainty of it without any evidence to back it up sounds a little desperate. Just my opinion.
> 
> ...


 you fail to realize i didn't say anything spectacular would happen to you on that date. i said those of us who are ready. you're clearly not friend.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 28, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> you fail to realize i didn't say anything spectacular would happen to you on that date. i said those of us who are ready. you're clearly not friend.


Preemptive special pleading, that's a new one for me.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 28, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> i am not saying you are incorrect only that i am shocked as i thought all that was part of the disinformation to make the truth look kooky so was this something you have 1st hand on? or something i can go look to if i can?


it's a mere story i was told by what i consider a credible source. i feel nothing but positive energy send my way from the source and so i choose to believe it. it made the most sense to me because it incorporates everything i have learned throughout my life about our origins. it incorporates our evolution, the universal messages (and story of origin) all religions attempt to preach and the reason we have not been visited. i have no memory of myself or any first person memory of anything i have stated. like i said when the time is ready you will know all, perhaps even nothing like i stated. my source was credible in itself and if you'd like i can send you the video where i recieved this information. i didn't post the video because not everyone is here to recieve.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 28, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> Preemptive special pleading, that's a new one for me.


thanks for your opinion, we all cherish it so much friend


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## Heisenberg (Oct 28, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> thanks for your opinion, we all cherish it so much friend


I did not express an opinion. I made a deceleration. How much can you cherish it if you didn't even understand it? I feel like you are not being honest with me.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 28, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> im glad you got something positive out of this then. im here to offer information to those who receive it, that is all. i my imagination is much more intense then what you call reality. get it out of your head that this is reality...it's a mere illusion.


I think you may have the word information confused with the word idea. 

Regardless if reality (what we can see, hear, touch, smell, sense with our sensory organs, test, study, measure) is an illusion, it is all we can do to base _what we think we know_ upon it, because whether or not the reality we are in is or isn't an illusion, we can at least see it, touch it, smell it, and measure it etc. etc. 

If we are to differentiate what "reality" is compared to what imagination is... we have to define reality (even if it MAY be an illusion, no one is certain yet if it is (yet some pretend to be certain)) as what we can sense with our organs, measure etc. etc. And define imagination as what we cannot sense with our organs, measure etc. etc.

Our emotions have this certain tendency to warp our perceptions of reality from what it is, into what we would rather it be. When we let our emotions dictate what we think we know (religion), rather than reason and logic based on facts (science)... a lot of times this leads us down the path of self deception. 

"Science can tell us what we can know, but what we can know is little and never certain. If we forget how much we cannot know we become insensitive of many things of very great importance. 

Theology/Spiritualism on the other hand induces a dogmatic belief that we have knowledge, where in fact we have ignorance, and by doing so generates a kind of impertinent insolence towards the universe.

Uncertainty in the presence of vivid hopes and fears is painful, but must be endured if we wish to live without the support of comforting fairy tales."


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## Heisenberg (Oct 28, 2012)

[video=youtube;UB_htqDCP-s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB_htqDCP-s[/video]


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 28, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> [video=youtube;UB_htqDCP-s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB_htqDCP-s[/video]


Totally AWESOME!


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## cannabineer (Oct 28, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> I don't know them off hand but Chief is correct and so is ganga most likely i can verify that it is very possible they were built 30,000 years ago from scientists mainstream ones they just don't play those ones on mainstream tv you gotta go find them like hidden archaeology stuff try youtube -i don't worry on weather they are credible before i watch i like to take them in as a presentation of their theory and then if it seems plausible go and research their claims


You have just written instructions on how to abandon critical thought, and maximize the chances of falling for a fraud. Is it coincidence that Youtube is the bastion and fortress of untested and untestable ideas? It is the current premier refuge of scoundrels, of outright liars who seek the appearance of legitimacy with glossily produced poison. The old saying is incorrect ... one can indeed polish a turd,and Youtube is loaded with them. 

My countersuggestion is to find a good library, such as at a major university, gain privileges and *read*. cn


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## cannabineer (Oct 28, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> I did not express an opinion.* I made a deceleration.* How much can you cherish it if you didn't even understand it? I feel like you are not being honest with me.


Slow down there!  cn


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## Heisenberg (Oct 28, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Slow down there!  cn


lol wtf was I thinking?


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## cannabineer (Oct 28, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> lol wtf was I thinking?


Whatever it was, it was too fast.  cn


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## dashcues (Oct 28, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> I don't know them off hand but Chief is correct and so is ganga most likely i can verify that it is very possible they were built 30,000 years ago from scientists mainstream ones they just don't play those ones on mainstream tv you gotta go find them like hidden archaeology stuff try youtube -i don't worry on weather they are credible before i watch i like to take them in as a presentation of their theory and then if it seems plausible go and research their claims


No worries Mellow.I'm just trying to find the cut-off.From when you believe ancient aliens ended pyramid construction and when the ancient Egyptians would have picked it up.
And if you can verify the pyramids as being built 30,000 yrs ago,please do tell.I'm very interested.


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## ganja man23 (Oct 28, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> I did not express an opinion. I made a deceleration. How much can you cherish it if you didn't even understand it? I feel like you are not being honest with me.


you are truly getting to the point where i will not respond anymore. how can i be honest and nice to what seems like a untrained little puppy trying to rip my head off? we are here to shed light. don't attempt to block light, we spread in every known direction with a perpetually increasing magnitude. you simply cannot do it. we're getting too high for you my friend, you don't want to left behind believe me on this. be careful what you respond if anything. this is not a threat, just get ready to know we are turning things up around here, those who attack us will get shunned. too high for this shit. namaste my brother and one love.


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## cannabineer (Oct 28, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> you are truly getting to the point where i will not respond anymore. how can i be honest and nice to what seems like a untrained little puppy trying to rip my head off? we are here to shed light. don't attempt to block light, we spread in every known direction with a perpetually increasing magnitude. you simply cannot do it. we're getting too high for you my friend, you don't want to left behind believe me on this. be careful what you respond if anything. this is not a threat, just get ready to know we are turning things up around here, those who attack us will get shunned. too high for this shit. namaste my brother and one love.


A doctrine or process based on untruth cannot be in the service of light. cn


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## ganja man23 (Oct 28, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> A doctrine or process based on untruth cannot be in the service of light. cn


truth is relevant to the observer. you don't mean to tell me your claims are more right then mine now do you cn? i hope not, that would be quite redundant for such an 'intelligent' fella.


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## cannabineer (Oct 28, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> truth is relevant to the observer. you don't mean to tell me your claims are more right then mine now do you cn? i hope not, that would be quite redundant for such an 'intelligent' fella.


What I am saying is that when you make claims that affect the physical world, those can and should be checked. If the doctrine doesn't correspond with what we know of nature when discussing natural phenomena, we know to hold it to closer scrutiny. When it glosses over or otherwise shows contempt for the need to be consistent with nature, we know it's a fraud. 

I've highlighted some irregularities in the physical component previously. The response I got was on an ethical level with "lalalalaaaa I can't hear you!". It reduces my interest in being polite and engaging in circumlocution. There is a tremendous moral difference in providing the following answers to a hard question: 
1) I can't! I've tried, and would welcome help.
2) I won't, or Bug off. 
Answers of type 2 are a guarantee that I'm not dealing with a serious student. cn


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## ganja man23 (Oct 28, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> What I am saying is that when you make claims that affect the physical world, those can and should be checked. If the doctrine doesn't correspond with what we know of nature when discussing natural phenomena, we know to hold it to closer scrutiny. When it glosses over or otherwise shows contempt for the need to be consistent with nature, we know it's a fraud.
> 
> I've highlighted some irregularities in the physical component previously. The response I got was on an ethical level with "lalalalaaaa I can't hear you!". It reduces my interest in being polite and engaging in circumlocution. There is a tremendous moral difference in providing the following answers to a hard question:
> 1) I can't! I've tried, and would welcome help.
> ...


why don't you just go verify my claims instead of automatically dismissing them? you strive for proving how intelligent you are when you contribue NOTHING to what you stand for, being science. the way i see it you're jealous that i'm contributing to spread the light message.

start eating healthy and meditate, it's proven DMT exposes you to new realities (experiences if you wish to call them that). the sheer fact that you stand here in attempt to take my spiritual knowledge and experiences away from me without ever having been there first hand shows you are damaged to the point where you cannot feel that i am trying to communicate with someone who is not you or any of your little riu friends. *i already got what i wanted here, i spread my light. no matter who receives it, i know i did my part. * i can sense you have never done that so don't type trying to dismiss all the work done by myself and others. when you've experienced what i and many others have then you have the right to talk. at the moment you don't. i know you love responding but how about thinking about what i have said? goodbye and good luck my friend cn.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 28, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> truth is relevant to the observer.


What do you mean by this?


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## ganja man23 (Oct 28, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What do you mean by this?


whatever you want it to mean.


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## billybob420 (Oct 28, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> whatever you want it to mean.


That's so deep it almost sounds like some bullshit.


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## cannabineer (Oct 28, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> why don't you just go verify my claims instead of automatically dismissing them?


As the claimant, that is your job. Even so, I have met you halfway on a couple of subjects and said "this does not ring true". The record shows how you responded. You're simply not interested in considering the weaknesses in what you preach. If you did, you'd recognize that I'm providing a service rather like that of a proofreader. i offered the opportunity to improve your ideology by making sure that at least the peripheral verifiables were clean. You interpret my wish to help as an assault. Hmmmmmm. 


> you strive for proving how intelligent you are when you contribute NOTHING to what you stand for, being science. the way i see it you're jealous that i'm contributing to spread the light message.


I am contributing one thing, unimportant to you but important to prospective host organisms of the ascension fraud: Please think about the glossy nonsense being propagated on Youtube and the Net. As for your accusation of jealousy, you completely misunderstand me. I'd like for the basic premise to be true; after all it promises so much.
But I insist that no violence be done to natural philosophy in the course of selling the kumbaya.


> start eating healthy and meditate, it's proven DMT exposes you to new realities (experiences if you wish to call them that). the sheer fact that you stand here in attempt to take my spiritual knowledge and experiences away from me


 Show where I have attempted to do such a thing. i respect your spiritual beliefs. Where I draw the line is at obvious bullshit phenomenology.


> without ever having been there first hand shows you are damaged to the point where you cannot feel that i am trying to communicate with someone who is not you or any of your little riu friends. *i already got what i wanted here, i spread my light. no matter who receives it, i know i did my part. * i can sense you have never done that so don't type trying to dismiss all the work done by myself and others.


What astounds me is that you do not know much about me. You do not know who I am. You do not know who i once was. You know very little about the journeys and stays of my life. Do you seriously consider yourself *qualified *to judge me so patly? Is this lightbearer behavior?


> when you've experienced what i and many others have then you have the right to talk. at the moment you don't. i know you love responding but how about thinking about what i have said? goodbye and good luck my friend cn.


Good luck to you as well. I have the strong feeling you're in for disappointment when the prophecies do what prophecies have thus far invariably done. cn


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 28, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Good luck to you as well. I have the strong feeling you're in for disappointment when the prophecies do what prophecies have thus far invariably done. cn


I suggest you look at the Hopi prophecy...


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 28, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> whatever you want it to mean.


Are you saying what might be true to you might not be true to me?


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## cannabineer (Oct 28, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> wut?  you have a great set up and delivery in place cn don't go changing what ain't broke but you would be advised to remember your audience if you worry about your long posts not being read
> 
> This is what I got from that besides a headache: _energy is not always matter well it is but it isn't because you see these tiny invisible things made of energy are .... my head_


Sorry Mellow. 
My primary point is that electrons in solids, liquids etc. don't vibrate. They occupy energy levels describable by quantum chemistry/physics, but do so as a sort of pastel smear that doesn't vibrate, oscillate or have any characteristic frequencies. I'm trying to point out that the model is simplistic to the point of being false, and that's a bad way to start a chain of reason. It leads me to suspect the result. cn


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## ganja man23 (Oct 28, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Sorry Mellow.
> My primary point is that electrons in solids, liquids etc. don't vibrate. They occupy energy levels describable by quantum chemistry/physics, but do so as a sort of pastel smear that doesn't vibrate, oscillate or have any characteristic frequencies. I'm trying to point out that the model is simplistic to the point of being false, and that's a bad way to start a chain of reason. It leads me to suspect the result. cn


we are just beginning to study and discover other sub atomic particles (within protons, neutrons and electrons) such as neutrinos, higgs bosons, quarks, etc. this will be the fundamental component to completing the string theory validation. atoms appear solid to us on the level of physicality so they appear stable. consider that they may only appear solid because of the way the subatomic particles within them behave, but what if you were to change the way that these particles behave, then what? we cannot speculate this yet because the evidence is not there. i can guess that when they discover this, those sub sub-atomic particles will all be vibrating with a certain frequency as well (and this is what gives atoms the illusion of stability), but that's my guess not my discovery.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 28, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> the fact that you limit yourself to the speed of light shows you no different and less creative then your fellow tree monkey. you and your friends may not realize it but you're still swinging in trees, throwing feces at each other. all distance is relative to be travelled within an instant. even if you limit yourself to linear displacement, assuming you could replicate speeds near that of light, it could still be travelled in what feels like seconds for many light years.
> 
> i'm here to offer information and you have every right to assume i pulled it out of my ass. so i recommend if you don't like the smell of my asshole, don't reach up there and take big whiffs. i realize the taste of assole is great to some but please show some boundaries.
> 
> your evolution of the pyramids is rather amusing but fails to incorporate the giza complex within the energy grid, as a compas lined up with the four directions of the compass, the fact that it incorporates advanced mathematical formulas and not to mention the fact that we cannot build anything these primitives. just like when i offer information and many don't want to listen, i won't be offended. your posts aren't going to convince anyone who knows what they're talking about to change minds, you're simply tooting your horn and nothing wrong with that which is why i would much rather ignore you.


Your posts have done more to discredit and expose yourself for the ignorant, mean-spirited charlatan that you are than mine could ever hope to do. You are not here to learn, you are here to spread your endless stream of bullshit you refer to as light. You do not demonstrate even an elementary school knowledge of science, and seem to revel in your ignorance. It's also obvious that you are a very desperate person, you are so emotionally invested your ridiculous fairytales that you run as fast as you can from even basic facts of reality. There are a few living jokes on this forum, and the one thing I can say to your credit is that you have joined their ranks with fewer posts than I've ever seen. You will now be viewed for amusement or with disdain, I choose amusement. Post on, my friend. You will continue to attempt to spread your darkness, and we will continue to to defend logic, reason and actual knowledge. It's a familar S&S&P dance, and the tune plays on...


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## cannabineer (Oct 28, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> we are just beginning to study and discover other sub atomic particles (within protons, neutrons and electrons) such as neutrinos, higgs bosons, quarks, etc. this will be the fundamental component to completing the string theory validation. atoms appear solid to us on the level of physicality so they appear stable. consider that they may only appear solid because of the way the subatomic particles within them behave, but what if you were to change the way that these particles behave, then what? we cannot speculate this yet because the evidence is not there. i can guess that when they discover this, *those sub sub-atomic particles will all be vibrating with a certain frequency as well (and this is what gives atoms the illusion of stability)*, but that's my guess not my discovery.


In the case of electrons, this is proven to be "not so". Orbitals do not vibrate! The energy levels in the nucleus are also describable by orbital theory. The vibration metaphor is not useful to describe these tinyscale interactions. 
Now if the string model (which is at this time neither proven nor mortally wounded) holds, then using oscillating strings to model those subnucleons is workable. But I ask you to avoid the jump of logic being championed by the Deepak Chopra wannabes: that the quantum strings behave in the way we've leared macroscopic strings to do. Strings hum when plucked; we learn this (and delight in it) as children. But my instinct is to say "No, until proven" about possibly overapplying the metaphor to the world of the smallest. It's a wiser approach than credulity, "yes until someone kicks it in, and then still Yes". Jmo, of course. cn


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 28, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> Your posts have done more to discredit and expose yourself for the ignorant, mean-spirited charlatan that you are than mine could ever hope to do


Says the Hard-atheist.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 28, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Says the Hard-atheist.


I like soup...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 28, 2012)

^^HAH! Too funny.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 28, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You misunderstood the question. You could google anything and learn the very basics of the subject. What have you gained from the spiritual side of the arguments?
> 
> I have learned to be more structured and calm. I have learned that the atheists here have the same mindset as angry bible thumpers as they try to force their ideas onto others because they are convinced its the correct path to follow. Atheists have little bit more subtle approach though. With you I have learned a lot though, Im not just mentioning these as personal attacks so that I can get a reaction. You have been more open about your beliefs, imo, and that has given me more to work with. You've shown me that there is conflict at the base of your beliefs that you are in complete denial of, and in our last discussion you lashed out at me for pointing it out. Im going to guess that most of the active skeptics on here have similar insecurities.
> 
> ...


(Cough cough cough...)

I hope he knows who this is directed to lol.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 28, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I have learned to be more structured and calm. I have learned that the atheists here have the same mindset as angry bible thumpers as they try to force their ideas onto others because they are convinced its the correct path to follow. Atheists have little bit more subtle approach though. With you I have learned a lot though, Im not just mentioning these as personal attacks so that I can get a reaction. You have been more open about your beliefs, imo, and that has given me more to work with. You've shown me that there is conflict at the base of your beliefs that you are in complete denial of, and in our last discussion you lashed out at me for pointing it out. Im going to guess that most of the active skeptics on here have similar insecurities.


Not directed at me, but this needs to be addressed.


These attacks you speak of exist only inside your mind. Many of us have tried to explain this to you and you never grasp it. You view even the explanation as an attack. 

When was the last time you saw an atheist go door to door? The analogy falls flat on it's face. You expect us to be quiet when asked about beliefs, anything else is an attack on someones religion. When we explain them, you say we're pushing our beliefs onto people. 

You feel persecuted because you yourself can't explain the things you believe without resorting to the supernatural or pseudoscience. The conflict resides with you, not us. We can explain the things we believe in by natural means, and we can defend them with reason and logic. The things we can't explain, we have no problem admitting it. You on the other hand jump immediately to faulty conclusions based on false premises, avoiding logic at all costs, and when questioned, instead of asking questions or accepting new information and altering your beliefs accordingly, you take the defensive and exclaim more personal attacks on your right to believe whatever you want.

News flash, friend.. science doesn't care what you think, it will work without you believing in it, and you will still enjoy and take for granted all the luxuries it provides.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 28, 2012)

lol oh Pad, I love science, just dont like the reluctance it has in exploring the rest of reality. 

Also, Im afraid the insecurities are still held by you. It doesnt really take that much to figure that out. Just gotta scroll down the forum page and see that a closet hard-atheist is a mod for a subforum that begins with spirituality. Most of us here would just like to discuss with like minded people and have a good time, no recruiting going on, not trying hard to prove anything, because those like minded people will see how these ideas will apply to the illusion of reality. Then we get people like you who seem offended that these things are being discussed. You say "Nuh uh! This scientific authority says this about that, therefore that is bullshit, blah blah blah". Only then it turns into a game of 'prove it!', and that game only benefits you guys because no one from our side of the argument ever cares about what you guys have to say, just as you dont care about what we have to say because you find it ridiculous and it somehow offends you. If we did benefit from your criticisms, much more of us would be questioning ourselves and starting to favor agnosticism and atheism, that is clearly not the case.
*
REALITY *doesnt really give a shit about your beliefs.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 28, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> lol oh Pad, I love science, just dont like the reluctance it has in exploring the rest of reality.
> 
> Also, Im afraid the insecurities are still held by you. It doesnt really take that much to figure that out. Just gotta scroll down the forum page and see that a closet hard-atheist is a mod for a subforum that begins with spirituality. Most of us here would just like to discuss with like minded people and have a good time, no recruiting going on, not trying hard to prove anything, because those like minded people will see how these ideas will apply to the illusion of reality. Then we get people like you who seem offended that these things are being discussed. You say "Nuh uh! This scientific authority says this about that, therefore that is bullshit, blah blah blah". Only then it turns into a game of 'prove it!', and that game only benefits you guys because no one from our side of the argument ever cares about what you guys have to say, just as you dont care about what we have to say because you find it ridiculous and it somehow offends you. If we did benefit from your criticisms, much more of us would be questioning ourselves and starting to favor agnosticism and atheism, that is clearly not the case.
> *
> REALITY *doesnt really give a shit about your beliefs.


Science is the only way to accurately explore reality. If accuracy doesn't matter to you, carry on with the way you're doing things, I like results and the power of prediction. While you will end up with a different conclusion each time, science will always be the same. 

Do you think we reached the Moon on hopes and dreams alone? No, we didn't. It took decades of *scientific* advances, research and development, thousands of hours of hard work, commitment and dedication. 

The beliefs you espouse could never accomplish such feats. What does _that _tell you about them?

It _should _tell you you believe them because they make you feel comfortable. 


I'm insecure because I'm an _agnostic_ atheist and a mod for the S,S & P section? How did you reach that conclusion? What am I insecure about, enlighten me.

I'm offended by ignorance. You are ignorant of science. If you weren't, you wouldn't come to the conclusions you do. It's a problem for the rest of us because you have the ability to influence the future. An educated, intelligent population is beneficial for everyone in it. An arrogantly ignorant one, isn't. 

"prove it" only benefits us because we're the only ones that can. You rely on faith with much of your belief system. Faith doesn't benefit anyone. 

Interesting because the statistics show a much higher percentage of non belief growing in the United States. It would seem what many of us are saying _is_ actually getting through. Fancy that!


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 28, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Science is the only way to accurately explore reality.


If only people could get rid of this delusion of certainty...


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## lokie (Oct 28, 2012)

> *Science is the only way to accurately explore reality.*



2 inexpedient stupid thoughts and actions colliding can produce an accurate ending and science would have nothing do with it.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 28, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> If only people could get rid of this delusion of certainty...


Yet time and time again you fail to meet the challenge and produce something better. 

If the objective is to accurately understand reality, science is the best way to do so.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 28, 2012)

So 'if' there is such a thing as real spirituality, it has to wait for the toys of science to discover it before people should practice it?

If science were to prove god and souls to be real, opening an accessible world of secrets, would science still be the best method to discovery, or would spirituality? 

Do you think its impossible for someone to stumble upon 'spiritual truth' without the use of the scientific process? Please try not to use unconvincing answers like "The mind is fallible, people think weather balloons are aliens, blah blah blah"

I have provided a better process. Knowing yourself is far more important than what a electron microscope or hadron colider can teach you. Also, deams, lucid dreams, amazing psychedelic trips, profound and 'paranormal' experiences, imagination, ALL better methods than science, imo.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 28, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> So 'if' there is such a thing as real spirituality, it has to wait for the toys of science to discover it before people should practice it?


What is "real spirituality"?



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> If science were to prove god and souls to be real, opening an accessible world of secrets, would science still be the best method to discovery, or would spirituality?


Science _can't_ prove God or souls are real. 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Do you think its impossible for someone to stumble upon 'spiritual truth' without the use of the scientific process? Please try not to use unconvincing answers like "The mind is fallible, people think weather balloons are aliens, blah blah blah"


What is "spiritual truth"?



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I have provided a better process. Knowing yourself is far more important than what a electron microscope or hadron colider can teach you. Also, deams, lucid dreams, amazing psychedelic trips, profound and 'paranormal' experiences, imagination, ALL better methods than science, imo.


"knowing yourself" is not a process of discerning reality. I'm talking about a systematic approach to figuring the world out using consistent standards to analyze the evidence. 

Each example you listed has the same problem; they're all subjective. How can you expect to understand what is objective using subjective means?


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## tyler.durden (Oct 28, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> So 'if' there is such a thing as real spirituality, it has to wait for the toys of science to discover it before people should practice it?
> 
> If science were to prove god and souls to be real, opening an accessible world of secrets, would science still be the best method to discovery, or would spirituality?
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, I forget. What practical values have these things produced again?


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## cannabineer (Oct 28, 2012)

Eagle, I'll ask you this. 

Let's say that spirituality is off limits to science.
Let's also say that the human individual is very prone to acquiring and getting rather territorial about favored delusions. 
(This is not pure guess. If a hundred people believe a hundred mutually-inconsistent things, there are only two valid outcomes: 1) 99 are wrong. 2) 100 are wrong.) 
Now, without a tool of discernment and test, how would I, the seeker, be able to tell spiritual wisdom from the awesome palette of delusion served alongside it?

THIS question has driven my exchange with Ganja Man.
It should not be held against me that I would like some way of checking to make sure I'm going with the right idea or in the right direction. This I believe with conviction ... it is an article of faith to me. cn


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 28, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> What is "real spirituality"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I figured you would dance around these questions and avoid answers that make you uncomfortable. 

Of course knowing yourself is a process of discerning reality. Why obsess with the outside, physical world if you dont even know who you are? A moon landing and a higgs boson is supposed to be more important to you than what goes on in your head/soul?  Everyone is experiencing reality subjectively as a whole. Some people are receptive of amazing parts of reality and some are not. Take Neer for example, an avid watcher of the heavens, as are millions of astronomers with an atheist mindset, yet they are unable to see these amazing things that a lot of other people are seeing like star-like objects flying across the sky and then blasting off into space, and orbs of light that blink in and out of existence (BTW Neer, I have seen the reflections of satellites you talk about, the periodic flashing is not at all what many of us are experiencing when we see these orbs). Video tapes of these things get no attention from the skeptics because they think they are fake, or people are just looking at something natural that they just cant explain, so theres really no convincing those that chose to box themselves in with skepticism. 

I think getting obsessed with the outside world and what it has to tell you is silly, because you already have the answers, you just gotta dig them up. You search for objective truth even though you are experiencing reality subjectively from one perspective. Why is the outside reality more important than your OWN reality? Dreams help you discover yourself, lucid dreams turn you into god and are an offshoot of astral projection (where you can meet other astral travelers and later confirm you both were experiencing the same thing). Psychedelics turn the dial in your head so that you may be receptive to different vibratory realities. Profound experiences that defy conventional reality open your eyes to what reality really is, especially if those experiences are consistent like the ones I experience. And you use imagination in every aspect of your life like with art, music, sports, story telling, you can get imaginative with how you chose to urinate, everything! You first have to imagine a sandwich before you make it. You get more joy from imagination than anything, unless you've lost your way, imo.


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## Heisenberg (Oct 28, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> why don't you just go verify my claims instead of automatically dismissing them? you strive for proving how intelligent you are when you contribue NOTHING to what you stand for, being science. the way i see it *you're jealous that i'm contributing to spread the light message*.


So you have resorted to the tactics of a Jerry Springer trailer park teen? Jealousy may be the extent of your feelings toward others, but you can not assign that feeling to us when it's clear you are using it as a thought-terminating statement. You should start thinking things through rather than finding ways to dismiss, that way you could be consistent about what you say. Are we slaves to science blindly defending it, or do we contribute nothing to it? How convicted can you be in your beliefs when the slightest speed-bump, the slightest of objections, causes an eruption of mental dysentery?



> start eating healthy and meditate, it's proven DMT exposes you to new realities (experiences if you wish to call them that). the sheer fact that you stand here in attempt to take my spiritual knowledge and experiences away from me without ever having been there first hand shows you are damaged to the point where you cannot feel that i am trying to communicate with someone who is not you or any of your little riu friends. i already got what i wanted here, i spread my light. no matter who receives it, i know i did my part. *i can sense you have never done that so don't type trying to dismiss all the work done by myself and others. when you've experienced what i and many others have then you have the right to talk. at the moment you don't. i know you love responding but how about thinking about what i have said? goodbye and good luck my friend *cn.


How good is your advice if you choose not to follow it yourself. You have no problem discounting rationality, which is what we have been taught by our experiences. We have no right to talk about your words, but you have the right to shit on us? Are you not trying to take away the lessons and truths we have gained though science? For as much as you talk about being enlightened and soul-searching within, you are a petty, biased, angry, intolerant fascist. You pretend to be a deep person, but you dwell in the shallow end of life. For all your soul searching, you have gained no control over the petty feelings which drive you. I have known and admired true spiritual seekers who, although they may not value science, they still value self correction and self assessment. What good is self examination if all it does it jerk you off and say how right you are? Do you suppose true spiritual growth never includes identification of areas you can grow? You have constructed a self-styled method of aggrandization which provides comfort and pleasure, but no real foundation of principals and conviction. You blow in the wind of the internet charlatans, borrowing what you like from this and that and filling in the rest with self-centered fantasy. You are surprised when others see through this? You are surprised when you can not patch the holes that others point out?





Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I have provided a better process. Knowing yourself is far more important than what a electron microscope or hadron colider can teach you. Also, deams, lucid dreams, amazing psychedelic trips, profound and 'paranormal' experiences, imagination, ALL better methods than science, imo.


Yet none of those methods will teach you about reality. You can spend a lifetime meditating, tripping and communing with the paranormal, and learn nothing about how the world works. You wont be able to do simple algebra, know nothing of basic chemistry, learn zero about biology, have no idea what to do when your body falls ill, and be clueless about how to interact with other people. What good are lucid dreams if you need to treat an infected tooth? What is DMT gonna do for you if you want to build a home that wont blow over in the first storm? How is meditating going to save you from an invading army? Spirituality has had a very long time to provide answers in the external areas of life, and it gave us things like psychic surgery, rabbits feet, and the evil eye. Dreamcatchers and rain dances, witch hunts and finger burning, praying and wishful thinking. The sort of spirituality you promote gives us magic, and magic does not help us do anything important in reality.

Spirituality can help you look within, but spiritual answers can never be allowed to trump real world data. True spirituality is a way to complement science, not contradict it. The best understanding we have of the world and of ourselves comes from an evidential approach to truth. There is no reason spiritual soul searching has to abandon that approach. There is nothing about spiritualism that justifies embracing magic, it is a misuse of the practice.

You are simply saying, who needs education, we can sit around and trip all day, meditate and have dreams and come out with better knowledge. That is a bastardization of spirituality.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 28, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> Yet none of those methods will teach you about reality. You can spend a lifetime meditating, tripping and communing with the paranormal, and learn nothing about how the world works. You wont be able to do simple algebra, know nothing of basic chemistry, learn zero about biology, have no idea what to do when your body falls ill, and be clueless about how to interact with other people. What good are lucid dreams if you need to treat an infected tooth? What is DMT gonna do for you if you want to build a home that wont blow over in the first storm? How is meditating going to save you from an invading army? Spirituality has had a very long time to provide answers in the external areas of life, and it gave us things like psychic surgery, rabbits feet, and the evil eye. Dreamcatchers and rain dances, witch hunts and finger burning, praying and wishful thinking. The sort of spirituality you promote gives us magic, and magic does not help us do anything important in reality.
> 
> Spirituality can help you look within, but spiritual answers can never be allowed to trump real world data. True spirituality is a way to complement science, not contradict it. The best understanding we have of the world and of ourselves comes from an evidential approach to truth. There is no reason spiritual soul searching has to abandon that approach. There is nothing about spiritualism that justifies embracing magic, it is a misuse of the practice.
> 
> You are simply saying, who needs education, we can sit around and trip all day, meditate and have dreams and come out with better knowledge. That is a bastardization of spirituality.


I didnt say we should abandon all the physical things in this world that benefit our lives, that would be silly. I dont hate science, quite the opposite, I just view it as less important compared to spirit, as do most people in this world. Science is responsible for most of our physical achievements, makes it easier to pilot our flesh vehicles in this illusory world. But if you think those things make reality more enjoyable than the things I mentioned, I'd have to disagree. Thats like the scientific intellectual version of a materialistic airhead who cant stop buying shiny pairs of high heeled shoes. Just my opinion, do what you want with it Heis.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 29, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I figured you would dance around these questions and avoid answers that make you uncomfortable.


Chief, you need to understand, there is no answer that would make me uncomfortable. I don't accept the things I believe in based on my own level of comfort. 

Do you understand that?



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Of course knowing yourself is a process of discerning reality.


It isn't, though. "Knowing yourself" is a process of _knowing yourself. _



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Why obsess with the outside, physical world if you dont even know who you are?


 
The outside world has nothing to do with who I am. The two are mutually exclusive. I know who I am. I know what I believe, and why. I know what I believe is justified by evidence. I know that which is not justified by evidence lies in the realm of pseudoscience, bunk science, non science. And I know that relying on such things is misrepresenting reality. 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> A moon landing and a higgs boson is supposed to be more important to you than what goes on in your head/soul?


I know what goes on in my head, I know why it happens, I know exactly how it happens. The unanswered questions lie outside of our physical self and into the unknown of the universe. I guarantee you will not find the answers of the unknown inside some archaic book. If you could, you would, since you can't, you won't. 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Everyone is experiencing reality subjectively as a whole. Some people are receptive of amazing parts of reality and some are not. Take Neer for example, an avid watcher of the heavens, as are millions of astronomers with an atheist mindset, yet they are unable to see these amazing things that a lot of other people are seeing like star-like objects flying across the sky and then blasting off into space, and orbs of light that blink in and out of existence (BTW Neer, I have seen the reflections of satellites you talk about, the periodic flashing is not at all what many of us are experiencing when we see these orbs). Video tapes of these things get no attention from the skeptics because they think they are fake, or people are just looking at something natural that they just cant explain, so theres really no convincing those that chose to box themselves in with skepticism.


Of course everyone is experiencing reality subjectively, but that doesn't make reality _subjective_. Reality is *objective*, whether you believe it or not. Do you know what objective/subjective means? Objective is true to all of us regardless of our beliefs, subjective is true to you, and only you, as you are the only one who experienced a subjective event. Consider love, you might love someone who I probably don't. Your _subjective_ reality is that you're in love with a person I am not. Who would I be to exclaim you're not truly in love with that person simply because I'm not? Consider day/night, red/blue, terminal/benign.. these are statements of *fact*. Your subjective opinion does not hold any bearing towards them. 

I've seen such objects, and I've reached the same conclusion each time.. "I cannot explain this". How would it be logical or reasonable for me to automatically assume such objects had an alien origin? Why? Simply because I can't explain it? That doesn't make any sense. This is something you refuse to accept. I can't explain how mutations occur, are we to automatically *assume* "aliens dun it!"? Of course your answer is no because you've never seen a movie or read an article or book based on aliens altering human genetic code, it's not popularized in media.. You must understand, through pop culture and media, you've been conditioned your entire life, subconsciously and inadvertently, to believe these things outside our current understanding of reality are automatically external forces. Want proof? Ask someone what they think a "UFO" is. 9 times out of 10 you'll hear "aliens". Why do you think that is? A "UFO" is nothing more than an *unidentified* flying object. It could be *anything*, why do they automatically jump to the conclusion "aliens!"? I urge you to test it out for yourself.



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> I think getting obsessed with the outside world and what it has to tell you is silly, because you already have the answers, you just gotta dig them up.


We have a fraction of the answers.



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You search for objective truth even though you are experiencing reality subjectively from one perspective.


Because objective truth is the only truth. Subjective truth is meaningful or useful only to those who experience it.



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Why is the outside reality more important than your OWN reality?


Because the only reality that we can prove matters. 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Dreams help you discover yourself, lucid dreams turn you into god and are an offshoot of astral projection (where you can meet other astral travelers and later confirm you both were experiencing the same thing).


All pseudoscience. 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Psychedelics turn the dial in your head so that you may be receptive to different vibratory realities.


Drugs inject a new chemical inside your brain that make you think such things, that's all. That's it. I hate to bust your bubble, but that is all that is happening inside your brain when you use drugs. Proof, it would seem, is easy to identify, as _without_ such a chemical, you wouldn't experience such 'profound' thoughts. Brain chemistry, and consequently, human consciousness, is dependent upon certain substances, change the substance, change the thoughts. This is well studied and has long been established as medical and scientific fact. You feel happiness because of dopamine, sadness because of a lack of dopamine as well as beta-blockers, adrenaline because of _adrenaline_, aggressive because of excess testosterone... the list is endless. The way you feel is directly linked to the chemicals your brain produces. 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Profound experiences that defy conventional reality open your eyes to what reality really is, especially if those experiences are consistent like the ones I experience.


Yet you refuse to disclose such experiences out of fear of criticism or acceptance. 

Again,_ your _experiences are useless to me, useless to science. You've yet to demonstrate why an experience you felt should be regarded as anything other than a chemical imbalance in your own head or why I should give it any credence. 



Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> And you use imagination in every aspect of your life like with art, music, sports, story telling, you can get imaginative with how you chose to urinate, everything! You first have to imagine a sandwich before you make it. You get more joy from imagination than anything, unless you've lost your way, imo.


Imagination cannot discern reality. Yes, it's useful, but not in the application of understanding the unbiased truth about our world.


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## lokie (Oct 29, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> you need to understand, there is no answer that would make me uncomfortable. I don't accept the things I believe in based on my own level of comfort.



admittedly I don't have interest in this type of time wasting tom foolery.

but one question that does pertain is pads statement.

what are your thoughts on a "scorched earth policy"?


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## Mister Sister (Oct 29, 2012)

I am confounded by the amount of people who insist that if something can't be proven physically, it just can't be 'real'. I'm not talking down about these people, please do not take it that way. 

Why can't an answer transcend our limited perception? Why does it have to make sense? Why can't an answer be both true AND false? Why is 'science' above all else, instead of equal to all else?

The term 'logical' is not an objective term. It is based on how one views 'logic'. What is logical to one may be illogical to another, and humanity's view of 'logic' has changed since forever and will continue to do so.

Part of my journey was realizing that some things defy the human mind. Things that 'logically' can't be real or 'proven'. Because 'proof' is just as subjective as logic.

All truths are half-truths any way. So no matter what anyone says that is right, it is always and without question equally wrong, depending on the perspective of the participant.


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## lokie (Oct 29, 2012)

OP without trying to be mean, just how many believe the way you do? statistics please.

find them and wait for the next hail bop comet. I do care about you and your right to breathe and
your pursuit your of happiness. comets are beautiful and can take you closer into the true light you so desperately need,

If you did not notice the shake on the door does not say sunshine enemas sold here.

it may be worth your time to hitch a ride with the energizer bunny. he may care about the green solar energy.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 29, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Because objective truth is the only truth. Subjective truth is meaningful or useful only to those who experience it.


...but all objective truth serves subjective truth. After the use of objective truth is applied, it affects people - hopefully at a meaningful level (or no economy). That's the only possible response to stimuli.

...do you understand that?


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## Heisenberg (Oct 29, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Imagination cannot discern reality. Yes, it's useful, but not in the application of understanding the unbiased truth about our world.


Great post, but I would disagree with the last line. Science wouldn't have gotten far without imagination, creative thinking, and even fantastic thinking. I believe the difference is structure, principals, standards. Without this framework, imagination ends up fueling wishful thinking. Wishful thinking has no place in discerning reality. 

It is this framework which chief and the others are resisting, because it filters out their wishes and pretense. It may be that spiritual exploration and discovery requires a different framework, but the chief is essentially pleading for anarchy filtered only by his desires, while seeking the shelter of spirituality. He wants a short path to deep thought, yet wants his pipe dreams to be on the same level as profound thinkers like Eye.



> You get more joy from imagination than anything





> Psychedelics turn the dial in your head so that you may be receptive to different vibratory realities.


It's fun to trip, it's easy to take a drug. Chemical altering of consciousness can reveal many things, perspectives you would never have gained otherwise, but without guidance, without deep reflection and prior convictions, it is simply escapism. Escapism is alluring and if we can dress it up to appear to have value by saying it gives us special information from different vibratory realities, then we can feel pride and superiority. True spiritual understanding, knowing yourself, requires adversity, hardship, and sacrifice. It takes profound regret, missed opportunity, and bittersweet longing before we can appreciate alternate perspectives; before soul searching can mean anything; before we can begin to overcome. The less time we spend in this reality, the less we know what things are important to us.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 29, 2012)

Heisenberg said:


> Science wouldn't have gotten far without imagination, creative thinking, and even fantastic thinking. I believe the difference is structure, principals, standards. Without this framework, imagination ends up fueling wishful thinking. Wishful thinking has no place in discerning reality.


...I like this. We should all be able to agree on this one


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## lokie (Oct 29, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...but all *objective truth* serves subjective truth. After the use of objective truth is applied, it affects people - hopefully at a meaningful level (or no economy). That's the only possible response to stimuli.
> 
> ...do you understand that?


*objective truth *is only truth to you. in the end there can be one truth. are you so blind to see?


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 29, 2012)

lokie said:


> in the end there can be one truth. are you so blind to see?


...not so much, no, hence the "objective truth serves subjective truth"  I suppose I could have added "and vice versa".


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## cannabineer (Oct 29, 2012)

lokie said:


> admittedly I don't have interest in this type of time wasting tom foolery.
> 
> but one question that does pertain is pads statement.
> 
> what are your thoughts on a "scorched earth policy"?


Lokie, I am curious what you mean by that. Elaborate please? cn


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 29, 2012)

Mister Sister said:


> I am confounded by the amount of people who insist that if something can't be proven physically, it just can't be 'real'. I'm not talking down about these people, please do not take it that way.
> 
> Why can't an answer transcend our limited perception? Why does it have to make sense? Why can't an answer be both true AND false? Why is 'science' above all else, instead of equal to all else?
> 
> ...


First time seeing you taking a more aggressive approach, I think it is impossible not to when talking with these guys lol. Im sure as I read on there will be a few of the protectors of reason disagreeing with a "Nuh Uh!" mentality.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 29, 2012)

^ never mind. Im shocked! lol


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## MellowFarmer (Nov 2, 2012)

ganja man23 said:


> this is information is relative to those travelling linearly. i can assure you most extraterrestrials don't travel this way. einstein said both space and time are only relative to the observer, both can be warped. he stated that when travelling the speed of light to the observer travelling vast distances would feel like a matter of seconds and on the physical level it would take the literal amount of time relative to the distance travelled. if you travel faster then you can work around this ration to essentially arrive there at the same time as you left or even earlier or later. as to the answer, many extraterrestrials have stayed (been trapped on earth) but don't interact with us for the initial reason our planet was quarantined, to give us a freedom of choice and civilizational development. the beings who created us (a new species at the time), did so without permission from their superiors. initially they were told to leave and the earth would be flooded in order to get rid of all of us. enki and enlil came back to earth to warn some of us because they had grown attached to a certain humans. those that showed character traits similar to the ones they desired were much more loved and respected. for this reason enkei went back and warned noah. i think we all know what noah did.when the alliance (Interstellare Alliance or Galacic Federation of light, i imagine they're a similar group if not different names for the same one) found out that many of us were still alive, they shut down access to the planet for anyone entering, also know as "the quarantine". this was done in order for our natural development. when technology is given to a species primitively they will not understand how truly powerful high technologies can be therefore they must be allowed to develop naturally if they wish to survive. the story depicted in the bible (when the angels rebelled) was because they wanted to simply teach us the technology wheras the fedaration knows this is unethical. "god" didn't want to give us such technology because many times in the past primitive civilizations have wiped each other out. if you look at stories, even today there are ufos that have been shutting down certain nuclear missiles at launching site.on the 21st of december, the quarantine will be lifted and those who are ready will grasp the threshold energy and ride it up and resonate higher and higher. this doesn't mean there will be mass landings the next day, but the level of interaction between us will not be so limited. remember that we are the brave ones, we chose to be in the front lines of the experience while our brothers and sisters watch from other frequencies.





MellowFarmer said:


> i am not saying you are incorrect only that i am shocked as i thought all that was part of the disinformation to make the truth look kooky so was this something you have 1st hand on? or something i can go look to if i can?





ganja man23 said:


> it's a mere story i was told by what i consider a credible source. i feel nothing but positive energy send my way from the source and so i choose to believe it. it made the most sense to me because it incorporates everything i have learned throughout my life about our origins. it incorporates our evolution, the universal messages (and story of origin) all religions attempt to preach and the reason we have not been visited. i have no memory of myself or any first person memory of anything i have stated. like i said when the time is ready you will know all, perhaps even nothing like i stated. my source was credible in itself and if you'd like i can send you the video where i recieved this information. i didn't post the video because not everyone is here to recieve.


Yes please do I did watch an interesting one very similar that made a lot of sense to me as well I just remember it being more that we are young and then a red planet (I think) needed to be evacuated something about water and lol I see how it makes senses something along those lines happening because of all the similar myths or religions and such all over the world are too similar to not be a cultural version of some even imo but the story part of it all isn't really that interesting to me so I will take your word.


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## MellowFarmer (Nov 2, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> I don't know them off hand but Chief is correct and so is ganga most likely i can verify that it is very possible they were built 30,000 years ago from scientists mainstream ones they just don't play those ones on mainstream tv you gotta go find them like hidden archaeology stuff try youtube -i don't worry on weather they are credible before i watch i like to take them in as a presentation of their theory and then if it seems plausible go and research their claims





cannabineer said:


> You have just written instructions on how to abandon critical thought, and maximize the chances of falling for a fraud. Is it coincidence that Youtube is the bastion and fortress of untested and untestable ideas? It is the current premier refuge of scoundrels, of outright liars who seek the appearance of legitimacy with glossily produced poison. The old saying is incorrect ... one can indeed polish a turd,and Youtube is loaded with them.
> 
> My countersuggestion is to find a good library, such as at a major university, gain privileges and *read*. cn


 I LOVE libraries I wish they still had them open more than a few days a week and longer than a few hours. I lived in them when I was a kid and yes I did have to be in bed before the street lights came on but I don't think I am exaggerating here on the contrast.

I view youtube videos and all documentaries the same as if I were sitting in an auditorium or a classroom or a boardroom where a presentation is being made to support a theory or cause. I usually stop watching 90% of them about 5 min but I try to give them all a fair chance and if they seem to have made a convincing argument I THEN go and research what they are using as facts and evidence. How do you weed through them all? I trust the ones they allow on mainstream tv much much less don't you?


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## MellowFarmer (Nov 2, 2012)

dashcues said:


> No worries Mellow.I'm just trying to find the cut-off.From when you believe ancient aliens ended pyramid construction and when the ancient Egyptians would have picked it up.
> And if you can verify the pyramids as being built 30,000 yrs ago,please do tell.I'm very interested.


If I bother to dig it out of all the youtube videos will you promise to watch it? Actually Mr Mellow was watching one on National Geographic even it isn't that hidden of archaeological finds they just aren't paid any attention but it seems the latest theory around these finds is we were very advanced and then we had an ice age and a flood and I can't remember if it was all at once but not many of us survived. I think it is called Hidden Archaeology lol I already believe it and I don't have the time.


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## MellowFarmer (Nov 2, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> A doctrine or process based on untruth cannot be in the service of light. cn


cn you are mistaking us with those folks who are so arrogant as to insist upon saving everyone who doesn't believe their truth. If you haven't noticed we have been doing the opposite and asking those who are not interested to leave.


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## MellowFarmer (Nov 2, 2012)

[h=1]When Spiritual Awakening Begins[/h]




by Gregg Prescott, M.S.
www.in5d.com
www.maya12-21-2012.com 
www.HolisticCancerResearch.comWhat was your spiritual awakening like? Do you remember the differences in your life before your spiritual awakening began? How has your spiritual path since becoming spiritually awakened?Children often ask spiritual awakening questions that often begin with who, what, where, how and why. We questioned everything! My questions centered on religion because innately, it never made sense to me. Specifically, I questioned the creation myth, the timelines and the need to kill someone in the name of god. I never received an adequate answer from the clergy that fulfilled my quest for knowledge, so I put my questions on hold and let my spiritual path lead me to a time later on in life when the answers would appear.In essence, my spiritual awakening began as a child and was continued in full force as an adult. There is a defining moment in your spiritual journey when everything seems to come together and it all makes complete sense. You feel complete, whole and do not fear anything in life.Your spiritual awakening also means that you will continue to make mistakes in life, but youll reflect differently on these mistakes. You will realize that every obstacle that appears in your life is an opportunity to overcome that obstacle and it will benefit your spiritual evolution. So, instead of being frustrated when an obstacle surfaces, you reflect on why this obstacle appeared in your life and you realize that you chose this incident knowing that it will help you to become spiritually evolved. through meditation or dream analysis, you may also find closure to certain issues.When spiritual awakening begins, you no longer fear death, but view it as a temporary reprieve and an integral part of your spiritual evolution. Death provides an opportunity to reconnect with Source and deceased loved ones, as well as our soul groupsand those people who we made soul contracts with, and allows us to reflect on our accomplishments during our previous incarnation as well as our faults. We realize that we are spiritual beings on a human journey and that the most important things we can do in this incarnation is to experience as much of life as possible while fulfilling our soul contracts.When spiritual awakening begins, you may lose some long-time friends who have not begun their spiritual journey and do not understand your spiritual evolution. While initially, this may be hurtful, you eventually realize that these people have already played an important role in your spiritual evolution, so you become grateful for the time they were in your life, knowing that some people come to us for a reason, a season or a lifetime.When spiritual awakening begins, your perspective on life drastically changes. You dont really hate anyone, including your ex-spouse, former enemies or even politicians who work against the greater good for humanity. Once again, youre grateful for how theyve helped you to become the person you are today.When spiritual awakening begins, you view things differently. If a world leader incites a war against another country, you realize that this leaders actions will only help to awaken even more people to the atrocities and corruption of world governments and banking systems. You become inoculated against all forms of propaganda and no longer buy into the fear factor.When spiritual awakening begins, you realize that this is only the beginning of a long journey that encompasses many lifetimes and dimensions. You are grateful that you incarnated to this planet at this particular time, despite knowing how much tyranny and oppression is going on. When spiritual awakening begins, you know that your presence is helping to counteract the negativity and you realize the importance of how your thoughts contribute to global consciousness, and how global consciousness creates reality. This is why timelines have changed. There has been talk about the creation of the North American Union under the Bush administration, along with the creation of the Amero monetary unit. There has been talk of the New World Order, Codex Alimentarius and Project Bluebeam but none of these have ever come to fruition. Despite the Fukishima nuclear meltdown in Japan, and the massive dumping of Corexit in the Gulf of Mexico, we are still healthy. The timeline has changed and part of that is due to our collective conscious but we must also acknowledge our galactic friends for helping us, too.When spiritual awakening begins, you lose your connection with ego and materialism. You realize that you would be much happier living in a tent than to be rich, living in a mansion and stressed out 7 days a week. You appreciate all of the simple things in life, such as when an animal crosses your path and you ponder on the animal symbolism and its significance. You marvel at the majesty of trees and think of their relation to alchemy with their limbs reaching toward the sky while their roots are firmly planted in the ground. You begin to see sacred geometry in everything. Fear in your dreams subsides or becomes non-existent. Your dreams will also become more futuristic when ego, fear and materialism are no longer part of your life.When spiritual awakening begins, you feel a deeper connection to all of life, including every living and non-living thing on our planet and in our universe. In the past, you may have stepped on an ant, but now, you dont because you realize that his life is just as important as yours. You learn many things from the ant, such as architecture, how they work together as a team, perseverance, work ethic, patience and delegation of work responsibilities. You feel a greater connection with the cosmos and might find yourself looking at a certain star for no particular reason, but wondering if your star family is from that star or area of the sky.Once your spiritual awakening has begun, theres no turning back. Your life is forever changed in a positive way. Enjoy the ride!


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## cannabineer (Nov 2, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> I LOVE libraries I wish they still had them open more than a few days a week and longer than a few hours. I lived in them when I was a kid and yes I did have to be in bed before the street lights came on but I don't think I am exaggerating here on the contrast.
> 
> I view youtube videos and all documentaries the same as if I were sitting in an auditorium or a classroom or a boardroom where a presentation is being made to support a theory or cause. I usually stop watching 90% of them about 5 min but I try to give them all a fair chance and if they seem to have made a convincing argument I THEN go and research what they are using as facts and evidence. How do you weed through them all?* I trust the ones they allow on mainstream tv much much less don't you?*


Mellow, please understand that my difficulties getting Ganja man to communicate shouldn't be confused with a dismissal of the whole lightwork idea. I find the idea of wanting to focus one's energies into a serene and helpful space to be ... engaging, even beautiful.

As to the bolded, consider that TV has some editorial filters in place, while Youtube has none at all. that means that Youtube will have all manner of garbage that wouldn't even make it onto TV. Now, TV is rife with brain parasites like reality shows and pseudodocumentary shows on paranormal themes, and just between you and me, that's part of a greater disease. But the 'Tube is a mosh pit, a completely uncontrolled environment. I automatically mistrust a 'Tube video that claims to be documentary.

As for how do I weed through them, it comes back to a lifetime spent in libraries, which had a much lower proportion of outright nonsense than the visual media or the sensational press. (But I still found a book in the nonfiction section blithely recommending Immanuel Velikovsky's theories, which include such diverting imagery as planets _bouncing _off each other in human prehistory!) What that did was give me a grounding in natural philosophy and in its history, including the means used to test an idea for goodness. I'll cut to the chase and tell you my four alert subjects:

aliens
magic
prophecy
conspiracy

It's my considered opinion that the interlocking sets of Tube vids out there describing these things are a pathogen, a meme. That word didn't originally mean a visual Net joke, but something bigger, more sinister: an idea that spreads itself "because it can", like any other disease or parasite. There are people pouring remarkably high production values into these vids which are designed to hook folks who do just what you say ... assume an auditorium "teach me" attitude. But I suspect the motives of the documentarians.
I feel about their products the exact same way you feel about GMOs and Big Pharma: they are immoral as hell and doing massive damage. Because they are designed to hook into our thought-processes and exploit our very human weakness for finding new patterns and meanings. make no mistake, mellow: I think the producers of vids on these four topics are evil. They are promoting corrosive ideas and legitimizing them using the Himmler method: repeat, repeat (and if challenged, don't explain, simply) repeat. They say they're promoting the ethereal, sublime, ascendant ... horsepoop. They are pandering to the human animal. With the same community spirit as ADM and Monsanto and DelMonte, and for the same reasons: personal aggrandizement.

I have nothing against the honest, careful pursuit of spiritual ideas. And I see real value and beauty in pursuing a Tao of gentleness. But this modern confabulation of prophecy and transformative events and razzledazzle and general escape from the dreariness of real actual gritty existence ... i think this is bad in a way that might really harm our species during the next century. Jmo. cn

<add> I see those ideologies to be the born enemy of real lightwork. Untruth is a deadly foundation for any way of life.


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## dashcues (Nov 2, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> *If I bother to dig it out of all the youtube videos will you promise to watch it?* Actually Mr Mellow was watching one on National Geographic even it isn't that hidden of archaeological finds they just aren't paid any attention but it seems the latest theory around these finds is we were very advanced and then we had an ice age and a flood and I can't remember if it was all at once but not many of us survived. I think it is called Hidden Archaeology lol I already believe it and I don't have the time.


I promise I'll watch.
However,out of respect for the OP,I suggest a new thread with the pyramids as the topic.
If I start it,would anyone be interested?


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## cannabineer (Nov 2, 2012)

I would, dashcues. I've enjoyed your insights. cn


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## dashcues (Nov 2, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> I would, dashcues. I've enjoyed your insights. cn


Thanks Neer.And I yours.
Oh.It's just dash.Haven't done any cues for a while.I really should change it.lol


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## MellowFarmer (Nov 4, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Mellow, please understand that my difficulties getting Ganja man to communicate shouldn't be confused with a dismissal of the whole lightwork idea. I find the idea of wanting to focus one's energies into a serene and helpful space to be ... engaging, even beautiful.
> 
> As to the bolded, consider that TV has some editorial filters in place, while Youtube has none at all. that means that Youtube will have all manner of garbage that wouldn't even make it onto TV. Now, TV is rife with brain parasites like reality shows and pseudodocumentary shows on paranormal themes, and just between you and me, that's part of a greater disease. But the 'Tube is a mosh pit, a completely uncontrolled environment. I automatically mistrust a 'Tube video that claims to be documentary.
> 
> ...


*

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to cannabineer again.





*


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## MellowFarmer (Nov 4, 2012)

Nice cn I am seeing a lot of progress between us! 

yeah all that is the 90% I usually click off after a few mins and lmao the Mr was watching one of his and kept bitching they were all factual then throwing god bs in there all sly and i think he is just paranoid but he is onto another and i heard the most blatent unbelievable and why it probably slips right on by nonsense OMG yes right after a whole ton of facts... i get ya 

Edit: I am also trying out this only think about positive things fad so it is hard to concentrate on those things and complete the mental gymnastics involved in believing watching all that is positive but it DOES help to wake folks up so.... idk I guess it is like most powerful tools and not to be put in the hands of the ignorant


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## MellowFarmer (Nov 4, 2012)

I think this explains things well

[video=youtube_share;G4PCBSDg5lQ]http://youtu.be/G4PCBSDg5lQ[/video]


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## Zaehet Strife (Nov 4, 2012)

One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.


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## eye exaggerate (Nov 4, 2012)




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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 4, 2012)

MellowFarmer said:


> Nice cn I am seeing a lot of progress between us!
> 
> yeah all that is the 90% I usually click off after a few mins and lmao the Mr was watching one of his and kept bitching they were all factual then throwing god bs in there all sly and i think he is just paranoid but he is onto another and i heard the most blatent unbelievable and why it probably slips right on by nonsense OMG yes right after a whole ton of facts... i get ya
> 
> Edit: I am also trying out this only think about positive things fad so it is hard to concentrate on those things and complete the mental gymnastics involved in believing watching all that is positive but it DOES help to wake folks up so.... idk I guess it is like most powerful tools and not to be put in the hands of the ignorant


You watched or read "The Secret" didnt you? lol I think the law of attraction works like that, to an extent.


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## ganja man23 (Nov 9, 2012)

maan this thread is still going... Great Success!!


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 9, 2012)




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## MellowFarmer (Apr 18, 2013)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> You watched or read "The Secret" didnt you? lol I think the law of attraction works like that, to an extent.


I am a believer in the Law of Attraction and all the Universal Laws. I did Abraham's 30 day challenge and looked into and learned so many things since! We are energy, there is no such thing as time, our thoughts are energy creating our reality, and if you can just stay in the vortex that is your vibration life just works for you.... I just wish I could stay there more often!


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## Heisenberg (Apr 18, 2013)

[video=youtube;8u6BZv6_DLc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u6BZv6_DLc[/video]

New age quantum technobabble compared to star trek technobabble.


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## Heisenberg (Apr 18, 2013)

[video=youtube;z0vvmers-YQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0vvmers-YQ[/video]


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Apr 23, 2013)

MellowFarmer said:


> I am a believer in the Law of Attraction and all the Universal Laws. I did Abraham's 30 day challenge and looked into and learned so many things since! We are energy, there is no such thing as time, our thoughts are energy creating our reality, and if you can just stay in the vortex that is your vibration life just works for you.... I just wish I could stay there more often!


What is Abrahams 30 day challenge? I am still skeptical about the Law of Attraction but I think there must be some truth to it. Indeed, we are energy! We are also Love and Light. I wanna post a Bill Hicks quote but I've posted that one too many times already lol. I'll leave you with this guy. I just seen him in concert yesterday and had a fucking BLAST! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qqnx4drrc8


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## Mister Sister (Apr 24, 2013)

Question about the inFact video -

Why does the narrator believe Feng Shui and Reiki are "new age" ?

Is the debate focused solely on the fact the word 'energy' has only one valid definition, that derives from only the english language?

If we haven't detected or been able to detect something, does it matter if that something helps the quality of life of the individual?

I absolutely understand why it's important to discern energy in terms of ability to do 'work', but doesn't this assume that 'work' is only done on a physical level??? 

If yes, does this mean there are no other levels of existence beyond the physical because we cannot detect them?

Is there a way to quantify something like...a decision, in terms of energy - for example, a simple decision has the (potential) ability to do a lot of 'work' for a person, especially when you consider it over a long period of time.

I am just curious, and hope you find this thread again so I can read your response.

Thanks,

MS


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## Heisenberg (Apr 24, 2013)

Mister Sister said:


> Why does the narrator believe Feng Shui and Reiki are "new age" ?


Those are two treatments that are supposed to work by influencing or manipulating energy of the new-age variety. New-age in the sense that the term is vague and non descriptive, which is the opposite way in which science uses the term.



> Is the debate focused solely on the fact the word 'energy' has only one valid definition, that derives from only the english language?


The problem is that proponents of these beliefs frame their explanation in a scientific context, and then fail to correctly use science words. This is the very definition of pseudoscience. 



> If we haven't detected or been able to detect something, does it matter if that something helps the quality of life of the individual?


It matters when people want to have insurance or tax money pay for an arbitrarily packaged placebo effect. It matters when people are given false hope and turn away from conventional treatments. It matters when desperate people spend honest money on a service that doesn't exist. It matters when people believe they can control nature through means of magic.



> I absolutely understand why it's important to discern energy in terms of ability to do 'work', but doesn't this assume that 'work' is only done on a physical level???


"Energy" and "work" are physics terms, there is no assumption being made. If people want to use the term in a colloquial sense that's fine until they attempt to explain the mechanics of a physical phenomenon.



> If yes, does this mean there are no other levels of existence beyond the physical because we cannot detect them?


It doesn't by itself mean that there is nothing beyond the physical, it just means the explanations these people give for their abilities are nonsensical. In addition, the results they give are indistinguishable from the placebo effect. So we have no detectable difference and no plausible explanation. That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.



> Is there a way to quantify something like...a decision, in terms of energy - for example, a simple decision has the (potential) ability to do a lot of 'work' for a person, especially when you consider it over a long period of time.


 Can you quantify the changes which are influenced by my crossing the street as opposed to if I didn't cross the street? Even if you could, would that quantity be subject to thermodynamics? Would it create heat? If not, then it wouldn't make much sense to call that quantity "energy".


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## Heisenberg (Apr 24, 2013)

Here is something I recently wrote about this subject:


My Grandmother, a woman wise beyond her years, was one of the most generous people I have ever known. Even though she lived in poverty by most standards, she always had a little bit of money, or a cool toy, to give to the grandchildren when we'd visit. As we grew up some of us came to rely on her for help from time to time. She couldn't afford a car and didn't have cable TV, yet if you were in a pinch you could always count on her to pull out a wad of money from a stash box, cubbyhole, or some other carefully considered hiding area (it was always different) and make everything okay again. Of course we tried not to take advantage of this, and invariably when someone attempted to pay her back she would refuse, saying she was sure we could use the money more than she. She was a completely selfless woman who derived more joy from seeing her children and grandchildren flourish than she would ever get from spending money on herself. This is why is was so disheartening when, during the last few years of her life, she had to resort to borrowing money.

My Grandma, like most older people, had health problems, though they were comparatively minor. During her efforts to exercise and stay social, she joined an activity center for elderly folks where she met a young woman who introduced her to the idea of aural and soul energy. My grandmother became convinced that her health problems were due to bad energy, and eventually started paying to have her energy cleansed, a service for which she was charged $100 per session. Eventually she found herself in a situation where she had to burden her family to cover the expense of these so-called treatments. Most of us simply saw this as an opportunity to pay her back money that we certainly owed to her, but I know it caused great distress for her to have to ask. She was however afraid that if she stopped having her energy cleansed she would die, and she wanted have as much time to spend with her family as she could. When she finally passed we discovered that she had sold her grave plot, something she was adamant about paying for herself, in order to continue these treatments. My grandma had dedicated the last years of her life to maintaining an energy that never existed.

We see a lot of talk about energy in pseudoscience. We are told Chi is a life energy, ghosts are spiritual energy, psychics can sense negative energy, and crystals can focus healing energy. The problem with these statements is they hold no meaning scientifically and reveal a lack of scientific understanding by those who speak them. Ironically, this sort of language is often used successfully by proponents of pseudoscience to gain a sense of legitimacy.

Energy is a technical term that means only one thing, the ability to do work, a measurable work potential. Energy can be used, it can be stored, but it can not be imprinted onto a house, or felt from negative thoughts. It is not some sort of ghostly cloud that moves around and does things. If ever you hear the word energy being used, replace it with the phrase "ability to do work" and see if it still makes sense. If not, then it's probably a meaningless statement.


Correct use:

These batteries have no energy.
These batteries have no ability to do work.


Incorrect use:
This old house is giving off a lot of demonic energy.
This old house is giving off a lot of demonic ability to do work.

Does this mean that people should always use the term energy in a technical context? Of course not. It's true that it is sometimes helpful to use a word like energy as a sort of placeholder term for a concept you are trying to describe. Someone may say that when they try to focus mental energy into their hands they feel their fingers tingle. This may be useful to help them convey their experience, but just remember, using the term energy in this way does nothing to lend the idea validity.

When making statements about how the world works, anyone who repurposes a word has an obligation to define that word. If they fail to do so, then they are probably trying to take advantage of the general public's understanding of energy to be a science term. They mean to use the word to create a technical sounding framework. Ghost hunters, for example, not only talk about ghost energy, they attempt to detect and measure this energy as if it were quantifiable. New-agers often claim that crystals can amplify energy. These people are obviously not using energy in a colloquial sense, but as a means to skip over the mechanics of their theory.

In pseudoscience energy becomes a catchall term to cover anything that can't be explained; however, in science energy is precisely defined, so it doesn't make much sense to hijack this word to describe something vague. It's a way of talking without giving you any real information. When someone says they can sense spiritual energy, they are really saying "I can sense something that I can't really describe or explain". When someone says god is energy, they are in essence saying "god is something I can't really define or explain". When someone says something like this, they really aren't saying much at all. We are left with begged questions. Is ghost energy subject to entropy? Does spiritual energy follow the laws of thermodynamics? What characteristics distinguish 'bad' energy from 'good' energy? These are just a few of the questions it would seem need to be answered before we could believe these ideas reflect reality.

Another claim we often hear to justify nonsense is that everything is energy. While there is scientific truth to this on some levels, it becomes a meaningless statement unless further context is offered. Without some elaboration, it makes as much sense as saying everything is volume. We hear this statement being made in defense of many different pseudoscientific ideas, including the law of attraction, morphic resonance, hive-mind thoery, pantheism, ESP, and many others. The majority of these ideas would require radically different sets of undiscovered fundamental laws, in other words, they conflict with each other. They can't all be true, yet they all use this same platform from which to launch their unsupported nonsense without bothering to distinguish themselves beyond the idea that everything is energy. It becomes a shorthand way of saying "my pet thoery is supported by science". Remember, in strict technical terms, energy is a measurement of work potential.

When someone is trying to explain a scientific concept, and misuses such a basic scientific word as energy, that person probably doesn't know what they are talking about. This is a huge red flag that should help you spot pseudoscience. I only wish I had been old enough and aware enough to explain this to my grandma, though I like to think she would be happy that it motivated me to learn a valuable lesson myself, and pass it on to others.


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## Jimdamick (Apr 24, 2013)

The closest thing I came to feeling pure energy was doing acid, and that was cool


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## PeyoteReligion (Apr 24, 2013)

Jimdamick said:


> The closest thing I came to feeling pure energy was doing acid, and that was cool


I could light you on fire, then you would know what pure energy felt like.


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 24, 2013)

...one thing to contemplate here is that those describing energy are doing their best to discuss something that you feel. Not an easy thing to do. Energy can be studied, seems a respectable thing to do. But, if you study it from the inside out (and really, what doesn't grow that way) without the use of instruments and technology you shouldn't get the same amount of respect. Sorry, I don't see why. Both are respectable, imo.


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## Mister Sister (Apr 24, 2013)

Can always count on you to provide the kind of perspective that only you can provide. Thank you Heis.


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 24, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> Can you quantify the changes which are influenced by my crossing the street as opposed to if I didn't cross the street? Even if you could, would that quantity be subject to thermodynamics? Would it create heat? If not, then it wouldn't make much sense to call that quantity "energy".


...the amount of energy is always the same in a closed system. If you exert 'here' then some 'there' should have to be affected. If you crossed the street you'd have to use energy, and would be creating heat. Ultimately a part of you would have to extend itself in order for you to move across the street. Somewhere an animal or shellfish gave its life so you could replenish and do that again. If you do.


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## Heisenberg (Apr 24, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...one thing to contemplate here is that those describing energy are doing their best to discuss something that you feel. Not an easy thing to do. Energy can be studied, seems a respectable thing to do. But, if you study it from the inside out (and really, what doesn't grow that way) without the use of instruments and technology you shouldn't get the same amount of respect. Sorry, I don't see why. Both are respectable, imo.


I respect the search for knowledge, I do not respect unsupportable answers, especially when they attempt to redefine what we know of the physical world. The people we are talking about are only interested in this energy so far as to provide a plausible sounding explanation. They make a nonsensical assumption and then base solid answers on that assumption and often charge money for it.


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 24, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> I respect the search for knowledge, I do not respect unsupportable answers, especially when they attempt to redefine what we know of the physical world. The people we are talking about are only interested in this energy so far as to provide a plausible sounding explanation. _They make a nonsensical assumption and then base solid answers on that assumption and often charge money for it._


...yeah, don't get me wrong on the plastic shaman


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 24, 2013)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...yeah, don't get me wrong on the plastic shaman


Even if they don't charge money, it may still do more harm than good... teaching someone that meditation will help you get over cancer (or any other sickness or disease) rather than seeking medical attention is never a good thing. Meditation is good, don't get me wrong, but it can be bad if you don't teach people the right way to go about it, and teach people the truth about it. Meditation may be good for a healthy, positive, optimistic outlook on life... but it doesn't do any better than any other placebo.


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## Zaehet Strife (Apr 24, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> Here is something I recently wrote about this subject:
> 
> 
> My Grandmother, a woman wise beyond her years, was one of the most generous people I have ever known. Even though she lived in poverty by most standards, she always had a little bit of money, or a cool toy, to give to the grandchildren when we'd visit. As we grew up some of us came to rely on her for help from time to time. She couldn't afford a car and didn't have cable TV, yet if you were in a pinch you could always count on her to pull out a wad of money from a stash box, cubbyhole, or some other carefully considered hiding area (it was always different) and make everything okay again. Of course we tried not to take advantage of this, and invariably when someone attempted to pay her back she would refuse, saying she was sure we could use the money more than she. She was a completely selfless woman who derived more joy from seeing her children and grandchildren flourish than she would ever get from spending money on herself. This is why is was so disheartening when, during the last few years of her life, she had to resort to borrowing money.
> ...


Fucking... amazing. Thank you so much.


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## eye exaggerate (Apr 24, 2013)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Even if they don't charge money, it may still do more harm than good... teaching someone that meditation will help you get over cancer (or any other sickness or disease) rather than seeking medical attention is never a good thing. Meditation is good, don't get me wrong, but it can be bad if you don't teach people the right way to go about it, and teach people the truth about it. Meditation may be good for a healthy, positive, optimistic outlook on life... but it doesn't do any better than any other placebo.


...for sure, but a very good portion of the illnesses out there are caused by the mind. The root, the real reason is to create wellness in the mind. Mind over what? I know it's not that simple. I think that people in countries that have practiced meditation for longer than the west has have longer life spans as compared. I should verify that, could be wrong.

Maybe the point is that you don't get into it looking for a cure (though you are but not in the immediate sense).


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## Heisenberg (Apr 24, 2013)

[video=youtube;L3NchM6mUCo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3NchM6mUCo[/video]


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## Heisenberg (Apr 24, 2013)

The Chaser's war on the Law of Attraction. 

[video=youtube;usbNJMUZSwo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usbNJMUZSwo[/video]

It's sort of the Aussie version of The Man Show with a skeptical slant. I love near the end of this bit when they try to walk out of stores without paying for items because "we believe we own them."


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## Mister Sister (Apr 25, 2013)

Hilarious.

"That my clothes!"


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## MISSPHOEBE (Dec 29, 2013)

Law of Attraction Rocks!!! and its FREE!!!


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## Zaehet Strife (Dec 30, 2013)

Law of attraction. Because starving kids in africa really do want to starve... in africa.


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## tyler.durden (Dec 30, 2013)

Heisenberg said:


> The Chaser's war on the Law of Attraction.
> 
> [video=youtube;usbNJMUZSwo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usbNJMUZSwo[/video]
> 
> It's sort of the Aussie version of The Man Show with a skeptical slant. I love near the end of this bit when they try to walk out of stores without paying for items because "we believe we own them."


This was so good, I thought I'd bump it up again


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