# How do you become a better person, and why should you?



## Padawanbater2 (Oct 14, 2012)

And, what does that even mean? Better person.. 

I feel like most people don't bother with that type of shit, they get theirs, that's all that matters. 

Is striving to become a better person even worth it if everyone else doesn't give a shit? 

What does it accomplish? Does it simply give us the knowledge of being able to live with ourselves? Why does that matter? 


In a weird sense, sometimes I feel like since other people don't care for me or anyone else, why should I care for them? It seems so prevalent, the harsh reality of existence, where people are always in it for themselves, and being someone who cares for other people or the majority of peoples well being is useless. Why do it? Why bother? Why not just work to make your own life worth living, worth something that makes you wake up every day and not kill yourself? 

Why do people even bother with creating things like vaccines or smart cars to eliminate pollution if half the people these things are meant for don't believe they work, and in fact believe they create some type of autism or brain damage or don't believe in global warming? Why care about these fucks? Why care about what they think? Why try to help them? Where's the motivation, the acknowledgement, the "thank you for progressing our world"?

Nowhere. So why fucking bother?


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## kpmarine (Oct 14, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> And, what does that even mean? Better person..
> 
> I feel like most people don't bother with that type of shit, they get theirs, that's all that matters.
> 
> ...


I can't speak for the great minds that actually provide us with handy things like you have mentioned. However, I can speak from the perspective of a man who enjoys making the world slightly better just for it's own sake. 

Because I can, that's why... If you posses the ability to make the world a slightly better place, even if just for a moment, it is your responsibility to do it. The moment I stop doing things because it's the right thing and instead start doing them for the approval I get, is the same moment I lose a bit of myself. I don't know if it is taught or genetic, or both, but the urge to do what is right is not something you can just ignore. If you had the choice to improve the world you live in, or to remain passive; it would be a crime against all that is good to forsake that because you wouldn't get a pat on the back. 

Imagine a world, if you can, where all good actions are solely dictated by the recognition they get. That's a scary world, is it not?


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 14, 2012)

Hmmm... this actually touches on some very old, ideas in Philosophy, specifically ethics, and 'being good', or 'being virtuous'.

I tried to label myself as Utilitarian, e.g., perform actions because of the good they bring. It seemed logical that we should do whatever helps the most amount of people, but then one of my Professors asked me, "Then why don't we allow surgeons to pluck people from the streets to perform transplants on? Surely if one persons life can save five, there's more utility and good in that action?"

The answer wasn't very intuitive to me, but was something along the lines of; "I don't think anyone has the right to end anyone else's life... unless they're threatening their life of course." 

So, it would seem there is moral good in and of the action itself, not just in the consequences of the action. With that said, if the moral thing to do lies in the action itself, not in the consequences or 'utility' of the action, then take this scenario for example;

It's WWII and you are a member of a German household that is in good regard with the Nazi party. However, you don't agree that Jews should be slaughtered and have decided to let some stay in your attic. When the German Officers come knocking on your door to ask if you've seen any Jewish people do you;

A) Lie, an immoral act (_regardless _of the consequences remember, it's the act itself that is judged as moral or not, *not* the consequences even though this act would increase 'utility').

or 

B) Tell the truth, telling the truth is generally seen superior when assigning moral judgement. However, the consequences of this action don't favor one of utility, or helping the most amount of people. Doing the action for the act itself is actually detrimental to to more people than no performing the act. 


The question of 'why' is endless, you can always ask why. Maybe because humans are pack animals and we seek validation for what we do on some level. Asking why we should be 'better' is kind of strange don't you think? The very definition of 'better' seems to elude to something sought after. To be more than you are now, it's generally considered to be desirable regardless of ethical standpoint, unless of course you're apathetic.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 14, 2012)

Pad, interesting questions... extremely relevant. 

"The universe has to conscious, no kindness or ill will" -311

There is no bad, there is no good. What is bad and good is all contingent on your personal outlook on life, which is created and formed over every second of your life, based entirely upon the chance that you were born, the environment and culture you were born in, how you were raised, and lastly... the decisions you personally chose to make dependent upon the all of the experiences you have ever been though. 

Who are we? Who we are is completely based upon our inherited genetics, what was instilled in us as children before we had the ability reason and think for ourselves. We are everyone we have ever met in our life, what we chose to take from them... and what we chose to leave. 

If we want to figure out the parts of who we are that we have control over, we are merely the choices we make... we must make ourselves. It's nice, because the older we get, the more control we have over our thoughts, our passions, our likes and dislikes, and the more power we have over our the choices we decide to make. The older we get, the more life experience we gain, the more in depth our thought processes become when making decisions, and thinking them through. 

Why be "good"? Why be "bad"? Why do anything? Because it fuckin feels good man. Why do i strive beyond anything else to be honest with myself? Because it feels fucking GREAT! It feels awesome to me, when i do something for someone else, even a stranger that i know i will never meet again, i don't know them, they could be a horrible person... but ya know what? I'll take time out of my day to help you, because not only does it make me feel good... but what i perceive as being righteous and good, i would hope, would be seen by them, and others as a better influence. A guidance to what i feel is the best way to be, and how i would want others to treat me. 

Why do people try to help the world? I would assume that it is because it makes them feel good, they feel like it will make a positive impact on peoples lives, that maybe they will step into their shadow and become (what they perceive as) a good or better person. 

It's hard though, knowing there are people out there, millions of them psychopaths, sociopaths, fucked up shit happened to them when they were little, take my older brother for example, now facing 20 to life (and i hope he fucking rots in there) for almost killing an 8 month year old beautiful baby girl. I have personal experience with someone who feels no guilt, who thrives off of taking advantage of other people, and causing pain and suffering. There is no way to help these people, they are past getting treatment and they will be that way for the rest of their (in my opinion) pathetic lives. 

Existence is absurd, and we are here for a finite amount of time... and such a short time at that. In my opinion, it's all that we can do to try to be happy, to do our best with what is within our power to help others with life, and to help them to be happy. To try to differentiate between the people who will take advantage of you, or who are genuine and sincere, and fill our lives with people we "love", trust, and care about. Try to be a good influence and a good example on everyone, to be honest with ourselves. 

Why do any of these things? Because it makes me feel good, but alas, we are all different animals, with different minds, different likes and dislikes, different passions... different perceptions, to each their own... but you better not fuck with me or anyone i care about, because i WILL fuck you up. In my opinion, it is better to try our best to become better parts of ourselves every single day. 

I take the Buddhist belief of reincarnation as a metaphor, to symbolize that every single day we wake up, we are born again... and we choose who we want to be in every moment of every day. 

In short, do what makes you feel good... don't let anyone fuck with you or the people you love, stick up for yourself in every situation... we only get this one chance to live, so live it up, and live it "rightly".


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## cannabineer (Oct 14, 2012)

Beefbisquit, that is the first time I have seen lying depicted as an unconditionally immoral act. Can you point me toward supporting theory for that idea? cn


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 14, 2012)

Take this example, would you feel the same feeling it left me with..?

I was on another forum I frequent recently and this guy posted a thread about how his dad had just died and it was at the worst possible time for it to happen as he had no money, couldn't afford the funeral costs, had no other immediate family to help, the whole 9 yards. I teared up while reading the OP. Someone else set up a paypal account for him and the donations started flowing in, some people even donating up to $50. This lasted for a few weeks until someone did some investigating on the guys name and where he lived based off some information the OP left and discovered it was all a big sham. Got called out and eventually admitted it. 

I felt like a friend had stabbed me in the back, for someone to take advantage of someone elses compassion and sense of empathy for measly fucking dollars.. The mix of emotions were disturbing.. then you realize this type of shit happens all day, everyday, all the time. You see the exact same thing in government, in society, in so many people that would take advantage of some poor sap whose only mistake is trying to help.

Then, when someone else faces a crisis and needs somebodys help... guess how you feel? 


One of the worst though, and I see it all the time, is how these snake oil con men dressed head to toe in white suits and driving brand new Cadillac's to the congregation and _asking_ for 10% of everyones salary... they're taking advantage of ignorant people in need of something, and they think by giving, they'll find it... (millions of people, guys..)

It kind of feels like the good I do, or any of us here do, is offset by so much bad that it doesn't make a difference at all. Like I'm emptying a glass of water drop by drop while standing under a waterfall..


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## Doer (Oct 14, 2012)

Please allow a slightly different perspective.

All Folks are Islands
Good, Better, Best is a slippery and detailed slope into every increasing complexity and confusion
We cannot truly see ourselves
But, life is our only broken mirror
We can grow ourselves regardless
Or we may not

We can only help ourselves 
We can only know Self
Bounds and limits are self imposed
We can set self to see Self
We may not see the value

Remember Now and keep it, wholly
It's all we got 
It's all we need


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## cannabineer (Oct 14, 2012)

Are those ... lyrics? cn


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 14, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Beefbisquit, that is the first time I have seen lying depicted as an unconditionally immoral act. Can you point me toward supporting theory for that idea? cn


One example; Kant

http://www9.georgetown.edu/faculty/ap85/papers/LyingAndDeception.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_imperative


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## cannabineer (Oct 14, 2012)

Agreed, but that's hardly universal. You implied that the immorality of lying was established at the level of basic social conduct. One 19th-century armchair philosopher does not make for a moral imperative (categorical or otherwise  ) cn


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## Doer (Oct 14, 2012)

Doer said:


> Please allow a slightly different perspective.
> 
> All Folks are Islands
> Good, Better, Best is a slippery and detailed slope into every increasing complexity and confusion
> ...


Lyrics?..no. Just some thoughts on simplicity, instead of worry about comparing ourselves to others. 

But, if you a tune idea, feel free.


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## ArcticGranite (Oct 14, 2012)

For me the how and why of better began unfolding with fatherhood, maturity, age, experience. Youth is wasted on the young. Liking oneself and being comfortable being you, authentic, is critically important in the "better" dept. imo. I feel fortunate in that a number of my friends take the high road. I learn from that. I'm catching the "why bother" concern here too. What Viktor Frankl said, strip everything and we still get to choose our attitude! Have a reason to exist. And Nietzsche, with a why to live we can bear any how. I still like seeing a dirtbag get his though.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 14, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Agreed, but that's hardly universal. You implied that the immorality of lying was established at the level of basic social conduct. One 19th-century armchair philosopher does not make for a moral imperative (categorical or otherwise  ) cn


Typically in society lying is deemed as an immoral act. Perjury is taken very seriously! Of course there are exceptions. Although not just pertaining to lying, one can still argue that the moral choice is still based upon the action not the consequence. 

Morality, although at times might seem intuitive, isn't always so.


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## Doer (Oct 14, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Agreed, but that's hardly universal. You implied that the immorality of lying was established at the level of basic social conduct. One 19th-century armchair philosopher does not make for a moral imperative (categorical or otherwise  ) cn


Is lying immoral or only illegal in certain circumstances? Is anyone free from a little lying here and there? 

How can anyone say they don't lie to themselves in inner dialog, constantly?


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 14, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Take this example, would you feel the same feeling it left me with..?
> 
> I was on another forum I frequent recently and this guy posted a thread about how his dad had just died and it was at the worst possible time for it to happen as he had no money, couldn't afford the funeral costs, had no other immediate family to help, the whole 9 yards. I teared up while reading the OP. Someone else set up a paypal account for him and the donations started flowing in, some people even donating up to $50. This lasted for a few weeks until someone did some investigating on the guys name and where he lived based off some information the OP left and discovered it was all a big sham. Got called out and eventually admitted it.
> 
> ...


I don't think it's about making a difference as a whole brotha, i think it's about making a difference to you personally... if it effects others in a positive way, then good! But the reason i do nice things for people, isn't because i want something back from them, or because it's completely for them (well, it being for them is part of the reason) but i do those things because i want to, because it makes me feel good, if them feeling good is a result of it, sweet... regardless, i did it for me...even if it seems like it was for you. 

Everything i do is ultimately... for me! Lol, it's that way for everyone... if you really didn't want to do something, like really REALLY didn't want to, you wouldn't. Everything you do is for you, in my opinion. 

It's hard trying to decide who you should help, and most importantly why. But we have to be very careful and cautions, because like i said, there are millions out there who are amazingly adept at putting on a good front and a spectacular show, when their real intentions are malevolent. It takes years of practice, and a tight grip on skepticism for other people to be able to pick them out. 

I'd find that dude and punch him in the fuckin face btw.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 14, 2012)

Doer said:


> Is lying immoral or only illegal in certain circumstances? Is anyone free from a little lying here and there?
> 
> How can anyone say they don't lie to themselves in inner dialog, constantly?


Lying is all dependent on the situation, and perspective. If i work at a restaurant, and i'm eating food every once in a while, maybe it's even food they are going to throw away anyways, and i know that if my boss catches me im going to get fired... he comes up to me and asks me if ive been eating any food right after i ate a chicken finger... but your fucking bottom dollar im going to look at him straight in the face with puppy dog eyes and say.... whaaa, fuck no i aint been eat'n yo chicken! <-LOL!

Just as long as when you tell that lie... you are consciously aware, and you tell yourself (zaehet, you just lied right there... just want you (me) to consciously become aware of that) it keeps us in check, makes it so we don't ever fall into the habit of believing our own lies like billions of people do. It's good practice. 

Is lying bad or good, fuck no, it's neither, it isn't inherent... its based on personal perception and contingent on the situation. 

In my opinion.
_
It is very possible to not ever lie to yourself (_albeit a most difficult thing to perfect_) , that is what i base the meaning and purpose of my existence on...yet, that doesn't mean i don't ever lie to anyone else, lol! I will if i feel it is something that needs to be done. It's my call, and it's your call too. 

Just be very careful to not believe the lies, being honest with oneself... i think, is the most important thing in the existence of the human animals psyche. _


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## tyler.durden (Oct 14, 2012)

Honesty is not owed to thieves and murderers, or anyone attempting to commit immoral acts themselves. If a someone wishes to harm you and your family and they inquire to where your children are to do them harm, it is not immoral to lie to protect them. Morality to me is summed up by whatever is done to intentionally benefit individuals is moral, and whatever is done to intentionally harm individuals is immoral. Of course, that's the simple version...


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## j.GrEeN.<,{'^'},> (Oct 14, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> And, what does that even mean? Better person..
> 
> I feel like most people don't bother with that type of shit, they get theirs, that's all that matters.
> 
> ...




When all seems lost, and the feeling helpless...... self, is healed(whole) by being self-Less.


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## kpmarine (Oct 14, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Take this example, would you feel the same feeling it left me with..?
> 
> I was on another forum I frequent recently and this guy posted a thread about how his dad had just died and it was at the worst possible time for it to happen as he had no money, couldn't afford the funeral costs, had no other immediate family to help, the whole 9 yards. I teared up while reading the OP. Someone else set up a paypal account for him and the donations started flowing in, some people even donating up to $50. This lasted for a few weeks until someone did some investigating on the guys name and where he lived based off some information the OP left and discovered it was all a big sham. Got called out and eventually admitted it.
> 
> ...


As the old saying goes "Trust, but verify.". Some folks are just plain bad. I do see a trend of general apathy from the public, so I get what you mean. The only way to combat that is by being the example. Even if you think what you did went unnoticed, you will know. Normally when I hold a door for someone, it goes unnoticed, but they would have noticed if I let it slam into their face. Besides, you never know if you just made that person a bit more inclined to do someone else a kind turn.


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## tyler.durden (Oct 14, 2012)

kpmarine said:


> As the old saying goes "Trust, but verify.". Some folks are just plain bad. I do see a trend of general apathy from the public, so I get what you mean. The only way to combat that is by being the example. Even if you think what you did went unnoticed, you will know. Normally when I hold a door for someone, it goes unnoticed, but they would have noticed if I let it slam into their face. Besides, you never know if you just made that person a bit more inclined to do someone else a kind turn.


[video=youtube;wMwoexR1evo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMwoexR1evo&amp;feature=player_embedded[/video]


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## kpmarine (Oct 14, 2012)

tyler.durden said:


> [video=youtube;wMwoexR1evo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMwoexR1evo&amp;feature=player_embedded[/video]


Kindness does breed kindness, it's crazy how it works.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 14, 2012)

Was on my way to wallmart today to return a 16qt 70 dollar pressure cooker i used, on the way i saw a guy walking along the road, stopped and asked if he needed a ride, dude said "sure man" which usually doesn't happen, but i was overjoyed lol! Had a nice convo with him as i drove him the rest of the way to work at burgerking. 

I had a few cars backed up behind me when i did it. Hopefully, it sends a good message. Hopefully, if someone does do that, the person they pick up isn't a serial killer lol. 

Either way, i did something nice for someone, and it felt awesome.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 14, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Was on my way to wallmart today to return a 16qt 70 dollar pressure cooker i used, on the way i saw a guy walking along the road, stopped and asked if he needed a ride, dude said "sure man" which usually doesn't happen, but i was overjoyed lol! Had a nice convo with him as i drove him the rest of the way to work at burgerking.
> 
> I had a few cars backed up behind me when i did it. Hopefully, it sends a good message. Hopefully, if someone does do that, the person they pick up isn't a serial killer lol.
> 
> Either way, i did something nice for someone, and it felt awesome.


Good job

But as with that previous example, that dude ripping everyone off and me being forever hesitant to ever donate to something like that again (not about the money, it's about the breach of trust), in the same way I'm hesitant to pick random people up, for a few reasons.. If it's a girl, I'm automatically a creepy pervert for offering a stranger a ride, the person could (probably won't, but you still take the risk) harm you or rob you. I saw this big fat guy limping as he was walking across the intersection the other day and thought about stopping and offering him a ride but didn't. Weird, I actually felt a bit of guilt for not stopping and battling the mix of thoughts and emotions. It was hot as fuck outside too..


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 14, 2012)

Holy shit, check this out;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zell_Kravinsky#Kidney_Donation

Zell Kravinsky is an American investor, poet, and utilitarian who is known for making a non-directed kidney donation to a stranger and for donating over forty-five million dollars of his personal wealth to charity.

After Kravinsky learned that many African-Americans have difficulty obtaining kidneys from family members, he sought out a hospital in Philadelphia that would allow him to donate one of his kidneys to a lower-income black person.

According to Peter Singer, writing in The New York Times, Kravinsky justified the donation mathematically when speaking to Singer's students, noting that the chances of dying as a result of the procedure would have been about 1 in 4,000. Kravinsky believed that, under the circumstances, "to withhold a kidney from someone who would otherwise die means valuing one&#8217;s own life at 4,000 times that of a stranger", a ratio he termed "obscene."


What a fuckin' guy!


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## tyler.durden (Oct 14, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Was on my way to wallmart today to return a 16qt 70 dollar pressure cooker i used, on the way i saw a guy walking along the road, stopped and asked if he needed a ride, dude said "sure man" which usually doesn't happen, but i was overjoyed lol! Had a nice convo with him as i drove him the rest of the way to work at burgerking.
> 
> I had a few cars backed up behind me when i did it. Hopefully, it sends a good message. Hopefully, if someone does do that, the person they pick up isn't a serial killer lol.
> 
> Either way, i did something nice for someone, and it felt awesome.


That was cool, Z, but be careful. I heard about a guy in Michigan lately that gave someone a ride as you did. They found his body in a bathtub filled with milk and a banana stuffed in his mouth. The cops think it was the work of a cereal killer. Sorry, my boy told me that one and I thought it was cute...


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## hotrodharley (Oct 15, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> And, what does that even mean? Better person..
> 
> I feel like most people don't bother with that type of shit, they get theirs, that's all that matters.
> 
> ...


Just try being the person your dog thinks you are.


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## kpmarine (Oct 15, 2012)

To be more direct with what I was getting at before; fuck what other people think! That is the key to being who you want to be. You can't let how the world will perceive you be a block. You just have to enjoy being the person who does what is right for it's own sake. There is a strange degree of honor that comes with being "that weird guy who help the hitchhikers" . 

Not to say it's entirely selfless, it's not like I don't get a fuzzy feeling helping people. Maybe that's why I do it, I genuinely enjoy making my environment a better place. No matter how you break it down, giving your last $5 to someone on the street is always more satisfying than spending it on yourself. Overall, helping someone is generally trivial when you compare it to the time spent on this forum by most; why not go out of your way here and there.

That is not to say I won't actually stand up for what I believe is right to avoid offending others. Honestly I have to say this thread has actually made me think about why I'm a "nice guy", but I haven't come up with a better answer than "It makes me happy.". To me there seems to be some merit to just trying to be a good person.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 15, 2012)

kpmarine said:


> To be more direct with what I was getting at before; fuck what other people think! That is the key to being who you want to be. You can't let how the world will perceive you be a block. You just have to enjoy being the person who does what is right for it's own sake. There is a strange degree of honor that comes with being "that weird guy who help the hitchhikers" .
> 
> Not to say it's entirely selfless, it's not like I don't get a fuzzy feeling helping people. Maybe that's why I do it, I genuinely enjoy making my environment a better place. No matter how you break it down, giving your last $5 to someone on the street is always more satisfying than spending it on yourself. Overall, helping someone is generally trivial when you compare it to the time spent on this forum by most; why not go out of your way here and there.
> 
> That is not to say I won't actually stand up for what I believe is right to avoid offending others. Honestly I have to say this thread has actually made me think about why I'm a "nice guy", but I haven't come up with a better answer than "It makes me happy.". To me there seems to be some merit to just trying to be a good person.


Good post.

Honest question, does it matter what the person you gave your $5 to spends it on?


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## kpmarine (Oct 15, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Good post.
> 
> Honest question, does it matter what the person you gave your $5 to spends it on?


I accept the fact that it may be crack or a sandwich. If you know it is crack, don't make it a trend though. From the more personal standpoint, no; as far as I am concerned, I helped someone in need. There's no reason to be directly concerned, you didn't give them the money with the intent of them buying crack (Or at least, that's what I assume). You do have to keep an eye on who you help and how you help them though. Some people need different kinds of help.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 15, 2012)

kpmarine said:


> I accept the fact that it may be crack or a sandwich. If you know it is crack, don't make it a trend though. From the more personal standpoint, no; as far as I am concerned, I helped someone in need. There's no reason to be directly concerned, you didn't give them the money with the intent of them buying crack (Or at least, that's what I assume). You do have to keep an eye on who you help and how you help them though. Some people need different kinds of help.


Great answer, you're a good dude, K.


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## kpmarine (Oct 15, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Great answer, you're a good dude, K.


I can be a raging ass like anyone else. I don't know if I'd call me "good", but I'm trying.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 15, 2012)

kpmarine said:


> I can be a raging ass like anyone else. I don't know if I'd call me "good", *but I'm trying.*


That's all that matters, brother.

You're already a notch above the rest in my book.


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## kpmarine (Oct 15, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> That's all that matters, brother.
> 
> You're already a notch above the rest in my book.


In the end, all you have is your legacy. When you're buried six feet under, the only way to live beyond that is by making a difference. It's a bit selfish admittedly, but I wouldn't mind being known as the guy that always did what he thought was right.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 15, 2012)

kpmarine said:


> In the end, all you have is your legacy. When you're buried six feet under, the only way to live beyond that is by making a difference. It's a bit selfish admittedly, but I wouldn't mind being known as the guy that always did what he thought was right.


That's the mentality of a person who has been truly enlightened. The world needs more people like you.


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## kpmarine (Oct 15, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> That's the mentality of a person who has been truly enlightened. The world needs more people like you.


No, the world needs more people to inspire me to better my life. Feel free to take up the challenge.


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 15, 2012)

kpmarine said:


> No, the world needs more people to inspire me to better my life. Feel free to take up the challenge.


Do you have any examples of such people?


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## kpmarine (Oct 15, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> Do you have any examples of such people?


I'm sure I could think of many by name, though they would be personal to me and meaningless to you. No offense meant, I just doubt you know most of the average folks I have met. Anyone who has more patience than me, more time to help, and more forgiveness. I'm a grudge-holding sumbitch.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 15, 2012)

kpmarine said:


> In the end, all you have is your legacy. When you're buried six feet under, the only way to live beyond that is by making a difference. It's a bit selfish admittedly, but I wouldn't mind being known as the guy that always did what he thought was right.


I would so much rather be remembered by what means the most to each individual person who i interacted with in my life.


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## kpmarine (Oct 15, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I would so much rather be remembered by what means the most to each individual person who i interacted with in my life.


I'd like to be remembered in a way that makes people want to make the world a better place. Not just "Oh, he was a good guy.", or something so generic. If that makes any sense.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 15, 2012)

...I think we become better people by being attentive and observing our own actions. Feels good to stop looking at other people like they are the ones that are fckd up. We're all fckd up, to each his own degree. When that inner observation really exposes a lot of bs we have still kicking around inside, it can be painful. But, after a while you've changed some things about you that needed changing / the world is a better place because you did your part.


Now, keep that going for the rest of your natural life   Not always easy.


Actually, I think this is one of my reasons for 'believing'. I know that the universe is further than I can reach (in a tangible sense), so (my) reason says stay within arms length, reach in and explore that universe. It's just me I guess, and obviously takes no stab at the more scientific minded.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 15, 2012)

"We could be completely wrong, or right... so to say with certainty, that our ideas we have about the universe and reality are certainly true... is certainly a lie."

-Zs


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## gioua (Oct 15, 2012)

fear keeps people in check.. plain and simple.. no repercussions for actions= free for all 

fear = be it religion or law... or both.

you keep in line and adhere to what society allows...


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 16, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...I think we become better people by being attentive and observing our own actions. Feels good to stop looking at other people like they are the ones that are fckd up. We're all fckd up, to each his own degree. When that inner observation really exposes a lot of bs we have still kicking around inside, it can be painful. But, after a while you've changed some things about you that needed changing / the world is a better place because you did your part.
> 
> 
> Now, keep that going for the rest of your natural life   Not always easy.
> ...


If you dont mind me asking Eye, why is it that you chose the Christian faith? You are very open minded to all ideas and beliefs and Im assuming you take what you can get from other religions and spiritual views, but what is it about Christianity that appeals to you more than the rest of the beliefs out there? You are unlike any person of faith that I have encountered. Usually when people take the path you have they depart from their original spiritual views and dont claim to be apart of any group. Are there more like you? lol I know this is quite the question, I appreciate what ever answer you give me.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 16, 2012)

Instead of disregarding one superstition for another, like you... he decided to keep the one he was indoctrinated with, and "improved" it with his own (and others) imagination.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 16, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Instead of disregarding one superstition for another, like you... he decided to keep the one he was indoctrinated with, and "improved" it with his own (and others) imagination.


Something tells me Eye is going to have a different answer. But I dont know . I disregard nothing completely. I have a somewhat orderly hodge-podge of many spiritual views that includes the religion that I was barely indoctrinated in, which is Christianity.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 16, 2012)

Replace the word "barely" with "ultimately" and i would agree.

Even though your superstitions have changed, they have merely been replaced from one, to another.


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 16, 2012)

I guess you can call my views as one superstition. It is my own though. Took what I can get from what I studied and put in a few of my own ideas, I belong to no group. The one member "Woo" Tang Clan lol.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 16, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Instead of disregarding one superstition for another, like you... he decided to keep the one he was indoctrinated with, and "improved" it with his own (and others) imagination.



...heh. Strife, thing is - when you say I was indoctrinated, you take a swipe at my family and culture. There are few ignorant sheep in my family  (not being a dck, btw, telling it like it is and asking for simple respect)

nb: I'm not saying 'swipe' like you're being a dck, to be clear!  I appreciate your input.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 16, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> If you dont mind me asking Eye, why is it that you chose the Christian faith? You are very open minded to all ideas and beliefs and Im assuming you take what you can get from other religions and spiritual views, but what is it about Christianity that appeals to you more than the rest of the beliefs out there? You are unlike any person of faith that I have encountered. Usually when people take the path you have they depart from their original spiritual views and dont claim to be apart of any group. Are there more like you? lol I know this is quite the question, I appreciate what ever answer you give me.


...very simple (I think!). A person needs to keep those teachings because they were formative. I kept my 'christian' background because I can't not keep it. It's a 'background'. It's my 'home base'. Thing is, now that I'm a little older I need to examine the background and find where I fit in it. All the other teachings worldwide are (in their synthesis) saying the same thing. It's a matter of gaining better comprehension of 'who I am'. Denying other religions is not a great plan in my best estimation. 'Christ' is universal (Christ as in 'generative light'). Every religious avatar did a specific thing. I like to learn from each of them.


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## cannabineer (Oct 16, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...very simple (I think!). A person needs to keep those teachings because they were formative. *I kept my 'christian' background because I can't not keep it.* It's a 'background'. It's my 'home base'. Thing is, now that I'm a little older I need to examine the background and find where I fit in it. All the other teachings worldwide are (in their synthesis) saying the same thing. It's a matter of gaining better comprehension of 'who I am'. Denying other religions is not a great plan in my best estimation. 'Christ' is universal (Christ as in 'generative light'). Every religious avatar did a specific thing. I like to learn from each of them.


The hinge between belief and faith. I can choose my beliefs, but my faith is beyond such tinkering. cn


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 16, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...very simple (I think!). A person needs to keep those teachings because they were formative. I kept my 'christian' background because I can't not keep it. It's a 'background'. It's my 'home base'. Thing is, now that I'm a little older I need to examine the background and find where I fit in it. All the other teachings worldwide are (in their synthesis) saying the same thing. It's a matter of gaining better comprehension of 'who I am'. Denying other religions is not a great plan in my best estimation. 'Christ' is universal (Christ as in 'generative light'). Every religious avatar did a specific thing. I like to learn from each of them.


I had a christian background as well, just as many, many others did too. So i don't understand how you can't not keep it, although i do understand how difficult it is to rid yourself of it. 

Cn, i don't understand why you think someone cannot choose what to have faith in? Or is it just you, or am i just reading it wrong?


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## cannabineer (Oct 16, 2012)

Zaehet, that is one of my deep insights (or self-delusions) about the nature of faith. I realized when grappling with the really big questions many years ago ... that I could influence my beliefs to the point of changing them outright, but I also concluded that I have a basic _Gestalt _of how the world works, and it is too deep for access by reason or passion. 
That deep conviction, my cognitive "firmware", I label faith, as it is beyond either analysis or falsification. It is a somewhat stricter definition than the common one, but I still find it compelling. 
I am wondering if this makes me an accidental Taoist. cn


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## NetGuruINC (Oct 16, 2012)

First of all there is no such thing as good or bad, you define whats "good or bad" from your own personal experiences throughout life. Thats why people like Hitler and Mit Romney could sleep at night because they honestly believe there is nothing "wrong" with their ideas, simply because none of their previous experiences in life have related those intentions to "bad".

Its no different than a little kid in Afghanistan screaming "kill americans!". To that little kid it is the correct thing to do because its what he was taught from an infant, therefore it is not the little kids fault at all, if anything its his guardians fault, BUT the guardian may ALSO be subject to the exact same upbringing.


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 16, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Zaehet, that is one of my deep insights (or self-delusions) about the nature of faith. I realized when grappling with the really big questions many years ago ... that I could influence my beliefs to the point of changing them outright, but I also concluded that I have a basic _Gestalt _of how the world works, and it is too deep for access by reason or passion.
> That deep conviction, my cognitive "firmware", I label faith, as it is beyond either analysis or falsification. It is a somewhat stricter definition than the common one, but I still find it compelling.
> I am wondering if this makes me an accidental Taoist. cn


But don't you ever doubt, and wonder if what you have faith in... may not be true?


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## cannabineer (Oct 16, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> But don't you ever doubt that what you have faith in may not be true?


If I am _able _to doubt a thing, I automatically classify it "belief". cn


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 16, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> If I am _able _to doubt a thing, I automatically classify it "belief". cn


So you are saying it is literally impossible for you to allow your mind to doubt what you have faith in? 

And if so, would you explain to me why?


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## cannabineer (Oct 16, 2012)

I don't know if I can explain, Zaehet.
Take for example my faith that random chance and not an intelligent warden is behind the continued unfolding of the Cosmos. 
Or my certainty that we humans see God and spirit everywhere because it's in our natures.
If I try to question either of those, I come up against a deep knowing of "that's the way things are!" that inhibits the passionate engaged part of my inner questioner ... leaving only dispassionate disengaged pure reason.

Are the things in my faith pouch true to me? Definitely! Are they true to all? How can I know? Ultimately I am a subjectivist, maybe even a solipsist. 

Now, if compelling evidence came to light proving (or strongly suggesting; the two form a continuum imo) either of those articles of faith incorrect, my firmware would rearrange to accommodate. At the risk of seeming specious (but actually expressing something that strikes me as profound): I have faith in truth. cn


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 16, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> If I try to question either of those, I come up against a deep knowing of "that's the way things are!" that inhibits the passionate engaged part of my inner questioner ... leaving only dispassionate disengaged pure reason.


That was a great explanation by the way, thanks for that, but one more question. 

When you say the word "knowing" do you mean the word "feeling"?


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 16, 2012)

Also, i dont understand how someone can have faith that that random chance and not an intelligent warden is behind the continued unfolding of the Cosmos, and faith that we humans see God and spirit everywhere because it's in our natures...

when there always exists the possibility that those two ideas could wrong. 

In your mind, is there no room for the possibility that you could be mistaken about these two ideas?

I'm sorry for badgering you with questions, but i am sincerely interested in what you have to say. It means a lot.


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## cannabineer (Oct 16, 2012)

I cannot help but feel that it runs deeper than feeling. Most of my feelings are at a shallow-enough level that I can pull them up and subject them to rational review. 
That may be circular as all hell however.
I am plainly up against the boundaries of my capacity for self-perception. 

I will relate a fragmented account of an epiphanic moment I had as a young adult.
I experienced something (the details are not relevant) that shook me to the foundations and induced ... tectonics ... in the seat of my faith. For a very short interval I had sight of that deepest part of me, the seat of identity, the bit at the center to which the concept of "I myself! I am here!" is tied. The seat of faith. I have an appreciation for those who would call it the soul and assign to it a certain ... autonomy. 

It was an experience of a psychedelic nature, both in its utter profundity and its inexpressibility.
And since then, the only time I have come credibly close to that moment was with the assistance of actual full-strength psychedelics. 

But the take-home bit for me that did firm up into an article of faith (lol!) was that the seat of my faith is always below my reach (but can be challenged by externals) and almost always below my ability to even sense. 
I am trying very hard to capture a part of the essence of that experience with words. they are not up to the task, and I have spent a lifetime mastering them. cn


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 16, 2012)

I may have an idea of what you mean, i have also had something happen to me (and my little brother) that was so profound, so intense, so all consuming... an unexplainable experience that hit every part of my, and his, being. (We were not intoxicated in the least bit)

I understand that everyone who experiences something like this, may experience it somewhat differently. 

But i also understand, that while this experience is happening... if we start to think about it, it starts to go away. (at least for me) _To be able to hold onto it... one must have "no-mind"._

As soon as it was over, i automatically and _innately_ gave it meaning. After a while, i understood what i had done when i did that...

When i chose to give this overwhelming experience meaning, i changed it from what it was... a profound, intense, all consuming unexplainable experience, into exactly what it was not (the meaning that i gave it).

I understood then, that because of my preconceptions contingent on the environment i was born in, the culture, how i was raised, and all the experiences i have ever been through... because of these ideas i had, when i gave this experience meaning... i knew i was changing it from what it was, into what it isn't. 

I realized that if i was born somewhere else, in some other environment and culture, and raised a different way... i would have given this experience an entirely different meaning. 

With this realization being true... how can i be certain that the meaning i have given this experience is true? I realized that i couldn't, than no matter how badly i want to be certain of what that experience was and meant, that i really didn't know. That if i am to be truthful to myself, id have to leave the experience as it was, instead of changing it into what it is not... which is exactly what i want it to be.
_
I know that once i put meaning behind this kind of experience, i change it from what it was... an overwhelmingly unexplainable experience, into what it is not...which is my personal interpretation of that experience. _


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 16, 2012)

NetGuruINC said:


> First of all there is no such thing as good or bad, you define whats "good or bad" from your own personal experiences throughout life. Thats why people like Hitler and Mit Romney could sleep at night because they honestly believe there is nothing "wrong" with their ideas, simply because none of their previous experiences in life have related those intentions to "bad".
> 
> Its no different than a little kid in Afghanistan screaming "kill americans!". To that little kid it is the correct thing to do because its what he was taught from an infant, therefore it is not the little kids fault at all, if anything its his guardians fault, BUT the guardian may ALSO be subject to the exact same upbringing.


I think the goodness or badness of any person can be measured by the effects of it's consequences.


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## cannabineer (Oct 16, 2012)

I think I get most of what you're saying, Zaehet. I have an almost-automatic part of me that seeks to invest experiences with as little meaning as possible "up front", which aids in directly experiencing them. Even as I think back, I find myself scrutinizing my thoughts and memories: am I taking the meaning given, or am I imposing my own?

But we are humans, and we are predisposed to traffic in meaning. It's a cornerstone of how we do and think about things. I don't claim to be clear of that trap. cn


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 16, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> I think I get most of what you're saying, Zaehet. I have an almost-automatic part of me that seeks to invest experiences with as little meaning as possible "up front", which aids in directly experiencing them. Even as I think back, I find myself scrutinizing my thoughts and memories: am I taking the meaning given, or am I imposing my own?
> 
> But we are humans, and we are predisposed to traffic in meaning. It's a cornerstone of how we do and think about things. I don't claim to be clear of that trap. cn


Just got back from the store, was thinking about what you might reply the whole time... you never let me down CN, that was well thought out and fantastically put. Impressed. Thanks for the sweet convo. and inspiration for my replies.


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## cannabineer (Oct 16, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> Just got back from the store, was thinking about what you might reply the whole time... you never let me down CN, that was well thought out and fantastically put. Impressed. Thanks for the sweet convo. and inspiration for my replies.


And I just got back form a "forced march" in my favorite hills (I hike to try to delay the loss of my physical strength) to find your very gracious reply. i have truly enjoyed this exchange as well. You helped me remember, and invited me to think. cn


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 16, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> I had a christian background as well, just as many, many others did too. So i don't understand how you can't not keep it, although i do understand how difficult it is to rid yourself of it.
> 
> Cn, i don't understand why you think someone cannot choose what to have faith in? Or is it just you, or am i just reading it wrong?


...you say 'rid yourself of it' like it's a plague.

...so, will you be the first person in your family tree to effectively rid yourself of a 1/4 of your brain? That's like, 7 grams of sweet consciousness you're throwing away there dude


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## Zaehet Strife (Oct 16, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...you say 'rid yourself of it' like it's a plague.
> 
> ...so, will you be the first person in your family tree to effectively rid yourself of a 1/4 of your brain? That's like, 7 grams of sweet consciousness you're throwing away there dude


No, by ridding myself of the stories and ideas that i was indoctrinated with as a child by my parents and authority figures of the church, i was able to open my mind to new ideas, to new information...instead of blocking out the ideas that either made me feel uncomfortable, or did not coincide with the beliefs i was ingrained with. 

Did you ever try going into church as a child and asking the minister about the big bang or evolution/natural selection? This is not a very good idea, i know from experience. To ask your minister as a child about everyone else in the world having a different religion, if they were going to go to hell when they die and hearing them with unyielding conviction that yes... they would go to hell, even if they have never heard of christianity. 

When we rid ourselves of religion and preconditioned ideas and truths that we have been force fed, we open our minds up to infinite possibility and wonder, an unquenchable thirst for knowledge about how the universe REALLY works, rather than taking the words of another at face value... we must study, research and experiment for ourselves to try and figure out what is really going on.

The deeper you search, and the more you learn about the universe... from general relativity and how the universe operates on extremely massive scales, to quantum mechanics and how the universe works at subatomic scales... the more you learn and understand, the more you come to the realization that the more you learn, the more avenues of knowledge open up for discovery, it is a never ending cycle of learning, discovering and unlocking deeper and deeper secrets of the universe.

The more you learn, the more you realize just how much there is that you do not know.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 16, 2012)

Zaehet Strife said:


> No, by ridding myself of the stories and ideas that i was indoctrinated with as a child by my parents and authority figures of the church, i was able to open my mind to new ideas, to new information...instead of blocking out the ideas that either made me feel uncomfortable, or did not coincide with the beliefs i was ingrained with.
> 
> Did you ever try going into church as a child and asking the minister about the big bang or evolution/natural selection? This is not a very good idea, i know from experience. To ask your minister as a child about everyone else in the world having a different religion, if they were going to go to hell when they die and hearing them with unyielding conviction that yes... they would go to hell, even if they have never heard of christianity.
> 
> ...


...all is connected, that is what I current hold as 'know'.

...I guess I was lucky being catholic because no hell was ever mentioned. Candles, in my day we burned candles 

...can you believe that? No hell was mentioned in any church service I went to as a child. But, I can say that the stories they told hold true today. In fact, they always will. If they sound like fairy tales it's because they are. The story is always about love. Learn to love yourself, and you'll love others. Our perception of that simple teaching gets more and more tainted as we age. I guess it's up to us to 'become like children' and get back to living without the lenses of our preconceptions. Same-same, spec!



...you mentioned no-mind before. No-Mindedness is always open. That doesn't fit with excluding your heritage.


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## Beefbisquit (Oct 17, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> I think the goodness or badness of any person can be measured by the effects of it's consequences.


Spoken like a true Utilitarian! 


On another note;

Someone had eluded to complete moral ambiguity, but that's clearly not the case. Virtually every society holds some form of 'do not murder (for no reason)' clause in their society. Almost all societies view incest as wrong. There are exceptions to the rules, but to elude to complete moral ambiguity is incorrect. 

[video=youtube_share;Hj9oB4zpHww]http://youtu.be/Hj9oB4zpHww[/video]

I really enjoy this video by Sam Harris, I hope you guys do too!


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## Padawanbater2 (Oct 17, 2012)

That's the clip I was talking about, nice find

Harris is a smart dude..


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Oct 17, 2012)

eye exaggerate said:


> ...very simple (I think!). A person needs to keep those teachings because they were formative. I kept my 'christian' background because I can't not keep it. It's a 'background'. It's my 'home base'. Thing is, now that I'm a little older I need to examine the background and find where I fit in it. All the other teachings worldwide are (in their synthesis) saying the same thing. It's a matter of gaining better comprehension of 'who I am'. Denying other religions is not a great plan in my best estimation. 'Christ' is universal (Christ as in 'generative light'). Every religious avatar did a specific thing. I like to learn from each of them.


Hmm, I still have a bunch of questions to bombard you with lol. Im assuming you acknowledge that Jesus (or a person/people like Jesus) existed once upon a time, but you choose to make your own path with his advice instead of worshiping him? Or do you look at the word "Christ" as a form of consciousness (for lack of a better word) instead of a person?. I am not too familiar with the sub categories of Christianity, do all Catholics tend to put less importance on 'hell' and focus on a more positive, less aggressive message or did you grow up in a unique background where open mindedness to new ideas was encouraged? 

I like to think that 'Jesus' was trying to make us like him, instead of worshiping him. Any man of god/love must feel silly if people are worshiping him, imo. We are children of god, what does that make us when we grow up? Dont need to answer that one. I think the second coming of Christ is the second coming of Christ consciousness. A consciousness that will be shared by many people, after an apocalyptic event of course lol. I also think a bearded white man/men of god will come around this time too. Many cultures around the world speak of a bearded white man saving them in some way or form, and those cultures were not supposed to of had contact with any white people at the time. I like the Hopi prophecy the best, those Native Americans predicted events with alarming accuracy. Im pretty sure only one of the nine prophecies is left to be fulfilled and thats the coming of Pahana (Great white brother), the end of this world and the beginning of the next.


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## high|hgih (Oct 17, 2012)

Well, everyone has their own philosophy. I think that being genuinely nice and shrugging off the negativity that people shoot at you is a start. They are speaking out of anger or ignorance. And both are understandable. They can't help it. Nor can you if you are not ignorant, but just angry. And if your ignorant.. Well then, you probably don't know. 

The reason to be a better person is that most people recognize your ability to put up with shit, people seeing you as a positive person will never hurt you(In some cases it may not help you, if others think your positiveness is a bunch of shit, they are jealous and angry. Forget them.). The ones that don't, forget them... Its just better not to think about. Don't think negatively, you don't know them. Perhaps they have no penis.


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## HeartlandHank (Oct 17, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> And, what does that even mean? Better person..
> 
> I feel like most people don't bother with that type of shit, they get theirs, that's all that matters.
> 
> ...


Being a living example probably has a larger influence on the population than you think.
I'm no model human, that's for sure. But I would say the "Golden Rule" is pretty much a streamline to being a "good person". I've thought about this before... they key to really practicing the golden rule is to overcome selfishness. I'm selfish as all hell at times, but I recognize that.
I'm convinced... anything we do that harms other people is out of selfishness. We feel that our needs (reasons for doing so) are more important than the well being of the person effected, or the victim of our actions. Even though we know that we would not want to be on the other end of the deal. So if we do it anyway, knowing that the person on the other end is getting something we don't want, we are being selfish and not living by the Golden Rule.

As far as people becoming more progressive... a progressive position doesn't make someone a good person. Imo.

Living in a capitalist society... it's hard to not be selfish and still experience success. I don't think there is anything wrong with being a billionaire, but there is something wrong with exploiting people.


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## eye exaggerate (Oct 17, 2012)

Chief Walkin Eagle said:


> Hmm, I still have a bunch of questions to bombard you with lol. Im assuming you acknowledge that Jesus (or a person/people like Jesus) existed once upon a time, but you choose to make your own path with his advice instead of worshiping him? Or do you look at the word "Christ" as a form of consciousness (for lack of a better word) instead of a person?. I am not too familiar with the sub categories of Christianity, do all Catholics tend to put less importance on 'hell' and focus on a more positive, less aggressive message or did you grow up in a unique background where open mindedness to new ideas was encouraged?
> 
> I like to think that 'Jesus' was trying to make us like him, instead of worshiping him. Any man of god/love must feel silly if people are worshiping him, imo. We are children of god, what does that make us when we grow up? Dont need to answer that one. I think the second coming of Christ is the second coming of Christ consciousness. A consciousness that will be shared by many people, after an apocalyptic event of course lol. I also think a bearded white man/men of god will come around this time too. Many cultures around the world speak of a bearded white man saving them in some way or form, and those cultures were not supposed to of had contact with any white people at the time. I like the Hopi prophecy the best, those Native Americans predicted events with alarming accuracy. Im pretty sure only one of the nine prophecies is left to be fulfilled and thats the coming of Pahana (Great white brother), the end of this world and the beginning of the next.


...lol - there were some real catholics where I'm from. Wow. They pushed hell. I think I was lucky.

...Jesus embodied the Christ. The 'light body'. That was the ascension, so far as I know. It's funny that people nowadays see the pattern of older religions and say that it's all bs. That was what I meant when I said 'all religious avatars', each one of the 'com_parable_' people did a different thing for the consciousness of the people (in their respective cultures). The Hopi were in tune with the mother (are in tune?). They were able to listen with a discernment that required no razor. They listened with their bodies, their hearts and their minds. In our current day, we'd call someone who is able to do that 'whole'. The thing with the natives is that they were whole, likely still are (thinking root culture here), and will still be after all the great upheavals.

^ imo, all of it


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## NBPaintballer (Nov 5, 2012)

cannabineer said:


> Agreed, but that's hardly universal. You implied that the immorality of lying was established at the level of basic social conduct. One 19th-century armchair philosopher does not make for a moral imperative (categorical or otherwise  ) cn


Immanual Kant ?


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## Mister Sister (Nov 5, 2012)

Padawanbater2 said:


> And, what does that even mean? Better person..
> 
> I feel like most people don't bother with that type of shit, they get theirs, that's all that matters.
> 
> ...


Congrats on your journey Pada, I enjoy reading about your thoughts - thank you for sharing.

Please consider yourself as connected to all other people, negative self-serving ones included. They are a part of yourself, and you of theirs. The reason to give a fuck is to lead by positive example of the power of unconditional love. If you learn to love your enemy, you learn to love your self and vice versa. 

The power of a healed/healing human psyche has effects that reach far beyond the visible spectrum of light. You are connected to all others in countless ways. Giving a fuck breeds giving a fuck. Hang around in shit long enough you start to smell like it. So hang out in compassion for a bit, see how it fits ya.

Much respect,

MS


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## Chief Walkin Eagle (Nov 5, 2012)

Mister Sister said:


> Congrats on your journey Pada, I enjoy reading about your thoughts - thank you for sharing.
> 
> Please consider yourself as connected to all other people, negative self-serving ones included. They are a part of yourself, and you of theirs. The reason to give a fuck is to lead by positive example of the power of unconditional love. If you learn to love your enemy, you learn to love your self and vice versa.
> 
> ...


Great words Sir/Miss! 

I was surprised that you swore. Since you are so god damn positive all the time lol.


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## Zaehet Strife (Nov 5, 2012)

William James describes a man who got the experience from laughing-gas; whenever he was under its influence, he knew the secret of the universe, but when he came to, he had forgotten it. At last, with immense effort, he wrote down the secret before the vision had faded. When completely recovered, he rushed to see what he had written. It was: "A smell of petroleum prevails throughout."


The wise man will be as happy as circumstances permit, and if he finds the contemplation of the universe painful beyond a point, he will contemplate something else instead.


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## thagooroo (Nov 15, 2012)

I care about you and we never met I choose to be a good person because love gives you options in life when people care about you trust you they help have you and choose you over others they don't care for have you ever went out of your way for someone you didn't care about and expect no thanks of any kind in return. Since I love myself I want love and $ in life the more nice people that are well off and have there needs met the more mine will since we won't be fighting over a slice of pie that is ever expanding try to open yourself up to people and act with love and compassion and I promise you will see and experience a different world


Padawanbater2 said:


> And, what does that even mean? Better person..
> 
> I feel like most people don't bother with that type of shit, they get theirs, that's all that matters.
> 
> ...


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 11, 2013)

thagooroo said:


> I care about you and we never met I choose to be a good person because love gives you options in life when people care about you trust you they help have you and choose you over others they don't care for have you ever went out of your way for someone you didn't care about and expect no thanks of any kind in return. Since I love myself I want love and $ in life the more nice people that are well off and have there needs met the more mine will since we won't be fighting over a slice of pie that is ever expanding try to open yourself up to people and act with love and compassion and I promise you will see and experience a different world


The more I live, the more I say 'fuck this'. It really is 'in it for yourself', if you don't, I believe, you're either naive, inexperienced, or simply ignorant. Life is all about #1, first and foremost. 

Anytime I have ever took this advice and 'opened myself up to people', they have taken advantage of it and fucked me over. I used to think people were inherently good, but as I grow older, the society we've built has shown me they're not, they'll fuck you over at any given chance that they think will benefit them and trusting them not to is a huge mistake on your part. The only outcome to trusting someone today is disappointment.


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## guy incognito (Jul 11, 2013)

I like to pick up hitch hikers. It's amazing how quickly a young female will lower her guard if you simply put a child seat and a teddy bear in your back seat. I don't even have a kid.


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## beuffer420 (Jul 11, 2013)

guy incognito said:


> I like to pick up hitch hikers. It's amazing how quickly a young female will lower her guard if you simply put a child seat and a teddy bear in your back seat. I don't even have a kid.


Lmao! 

But seriously you start becoming a better person when you allow yourself to. Why you should become a better person is simple, it makes life not complicated. It's all about energy, what kind are you putting into the universe?


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## guy incognito (Jul 11, 2013)

Life is like a video game. I can't experience what the other characters are experiencing, and I don't care. The only thing that matters to me is if mario is going to get the princess. As long as there are no real consequences to me I will smash an entire neighborhood if it uncovers a single gold coin. Hell I might smash it just for fun. And throw turtles down a bottomless pit.


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## beuffer420 (Jul 11, 2013)

What about when you've randomly smashed everything and there's nothing left pry even killed the princess cuz she got in your way??


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## guy incognito (Jul 11, 2013)

beuffer420 said:


> What about when you've randomly smashed everything and there's nothing left pry even killed the princess cuz she got in your way??


I would consider that a real consequence that directly affects me.


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## beuffer420 (Jul 11, 2013)

guy incognito said:


> I would consider that a real consequence that directly affects me.


Our views may differ but this is what makes the world not boring, I appreciate the insight.


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## Padawanbater2 (Jul 11, 2013)

beuffer420 said:


> Lmao!
> 
> But seriously you start becoming a better person when you allow yourself to. Why you should become a better person is simple, it makes life not complicated. It's all about energy, what kind are you putting into the universe?


Good people finish last, in the material western world where success is determined by your bank account anyway..


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## OldGrowth420 (Jul 12, 2013)

This is heavy padawan. Truthfully, all of mankind has a selfish sinful nature and we have to try our best to fight it. Luckily Gods helps us with this battle by giving the Helper, the Holy Spirit to all believers to help propel us in the right direction and inspire us to do and say the right things. This is one reason you see so many Christians volunteering and giving to those in need and so many churches helping their communities. Prayer can do mighty things in our fight to become better people, often people give up on prayer when they don't see immediate results as God works on His own timeframe and not on ours. Jesus has been slowly crafting me into a better person from the inside nearly my entire life. As the years progress I see myself becoming a better hearted selfless person. These improvements are not due to my own work or striving, but are a result of God's work in me. Let my experience be a witness to you. God has truly worked many miracles in me on our journey to perfection. Let our Christian hearts be a witness to you and don't let a few bad examples spoil the evidence of God's miracles.


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## OldGrowth420 (Jul 12, 2013)

I challenge you to follow the Christian Way and get involved in a good church for a few years and see the difference it makes in your heart and in your life


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## kpmarine (Jul 12, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> I challenge you to follow the Christian Way and get involved in a good church for a few years and see the difference it makes in your heart and in your life


I'd rather a voluntary lifestyle.


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## kpmarine (Jul 12, 2013)

OldGrowth420 said:


> This is heavy padawan. Truthfully, all of mankind has a selfish sinful nature and we have to try our best to fight it. Luckily Gods helps us with this battle by giving the Helper, the Holy Spirit to all believers to help propel us in the right direction and inspire us to do and say the right things. This is one reason you see so many Christians volunteering and giving to those in need and so many churches helping their communities. Prayer can do mighty things in our fight to become better people, often people give up on prayer when they don't see immediate results as God works on His own timeframe and not on ours. Jesus has been slowly crafting me into a better person from the inside nearly my entire life. As the years progress I see myself becoming a better hearted selfless person. These improvements are not due to my own work or striving, but are a result of God's work in me. Let my experience be a witness to you. God has truly worked many miracles in me on our journey to perfection. Let our Christian hearts be a witness to you and don't let a few bad examples spoil the evidence of God's miracles.


You don't need to be Christian to know how to be a better person. There's plenty of great secular people and organizations that volunteer and help their communities. Do you think only Christians help during natural disasters? Team Rubicon is entirely secular and they respond to natural disasters in this country and around the world. It's pretty much all veterans (Most of which, in my experience.) don't give a hoot about religion.) making use of their military training for disaster aid.


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## guy incognito (Jul 12, 2013)

I got involved in a good church. Now I hate faggots.


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## tyler.durden (Jul 12, 2013)

kpmarine said:


> You don't need to be Christian to know how to be a better person. There's plenty of great secular people and organizations that volunteer and help their communities. Do you think only Christians help during natural disasters? Team Rubicon is entirely secular and they respond to natural disasters in this country and around the world. It's pretty much all veterans (Most of which, in my experience.) don't give a hoot about religion.) making use of their military training for disaster aid.


Yep. Not only that, but the secularists don't make the poor and disaster victims sit through a sermon before they help them, which most churches do. Missionary work has an agenda when helping others in times of need, they first are looking to spread their dogma and gain converts, while the secularists sole goal is to simply help them. Also, it is interesting to note that atheists, who make up somewhere between 3-14% of the population make up just 0.2% of the prison population. christians, on the other hand, who make up 81% of the population make up 84% of the prison population. So, a christian is at least 15 times more likely on average to end up in jail than an atheist. What does this tell us about the usefulness of the Bible as a moral guide? It tells me that if you wanna stay out of prison, stay away from jesus...

http://www.holysmoke.org/icr-pri.htm
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States

[/URL]


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## kpmarine (Jul 12, 2013)

guy incognito said:


> I got involved in a good church. Now I hate faggots.


Are you putting the sword to all those who do not share your god; as Leviticus commands?


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## Kervork (Jul 13, 2013)

True growth comes from religious experience (not religion) Only an understanding of what you are can produce a correct moral viewpoint. Without understanding of self, how can you hope to develop a morality? Those without experience base their morality on books and what they are told by so called authorities. Coming from such places their morality is weak and easily bent. The bible tells you not to kill, yet you rationalize ways to kill anyway.

Athiests at least wonder about morality and think as opposed to those who obtain their morality from rantings and ravings about interpretations of an ambigious book. 

When you understand self and existance the chain of logic which defines your morality becomes quite clear. If you do not understand what you are, how will you possibly place value on things and actions? 

As long as we do not understand what we are, we have a selfish and cruel nature. Our alienation from self and lack of understanding of our nature is what causes most of the problems today since this is the root of incorrect action.


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## PetFlora (Jul 13, 2013)

You grow by taking personal responsibility for your actions

Everything is a potential learning experience

As a human, you will make mistakes

The sooner you realize your mistakes, the sooner you can go about correcting them

Look at the man in the mirror and give him/her permission to change by saying _"I Am Not That Person Anymore"_

www.jamesyoungsite.com has a powerful autobiography and companion study guide that anyone will benefit from


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## hempyninja309 (Jul 19, 2013)

Thinking, speaking and acting through the heart and being conscious of what we say and do to others. I believe we should better ourselves through striving to attain a sense of unconditional love for all living beings and living in harmony with each other.


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## NietzscheKeen (Jul 21, 2013)

I'm always trying to become a better person. I'm pretty sure I'm a horrible person to be around, since no one wants to be around me, but it's so hard to figure out what it is when no one tells you.


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## guy incognito (Jul 21, 2013)

I pushed a kid off her bike today.


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## tyler.durden (Jul 22, 2013)

guy incognito said:


> I pushed a kid off her bike today.


It's easier than cutting a lock. How much did you get for the bike?


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## guy incognito (Jul 22, 2013)

tyler.durden said:


> It's easier than cutting a lock. How much did you get for the bike?


I'm not an animal, I didn't steal her bike. I just wanted to push her off.


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## tyler.durden (Jul 22, 2013)

guy incognito said:


> I'm not an animal, I didn't steal her bike. I just wanted to push her off.


Wow, you're hardcore. How much did you get for the girl?


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## guy incognito (Jul 22, 2013)

It was personal, not business.


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## rizzlaking (Jul 25, 2013)

a simple mantra of be less of a dickhead everyday

it works 

and you should do this for your own personal growth not others


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## kpmarine (Jul 28, 2013)

NietzscheKeen said:


> I'm always trying to become a better person. I'm pretty sure I'm a horrible person to be around, since no one wants to be around me, but it's so hard to figure out what it is when no one tells you.


Perhaps it is your desire to live in an area entirely seperated from black people that drives them off.


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