# My first grow



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 2, 2009)

Welcome to my first attempt at growing marijuana. Here's a brief run down of what I'm working with.

Space: 17"W x 30"L x 30"H. Removable shelf expands space to almost 60"H. Lined with bubble-wrap insulation coated in reflective material (I think this retains too much heat...1mm mylar on the way).

Lights: 
1) 12 26w 6500k cfls 
2) 2 2' T5 HO 24w 6500k
3) 1 Exo-Terra 26w 10.0 UVB cfl (used only for short bursts of 30-45 minutes, once or twice per day) 

Not currently equipped but will be for flower: 1 150hps, 12 23w 2700k cfls, 2 2' T5 HO 2700k replacement bulbs, 2 65w 2700k cfls. 

Soil: Fox Farm Ocean Forest. Added extra perlite. Began seedling growth in Miracle Grow Organic Potting Soil, but retained too much moisture imo.

Pots: 7 5.5" square black pots, 2 7" circular pots. Also 6 7" square pots for final upcan.

Ventilation: 2 CPU fans of unknown cfm as exhaust, 1 3" personal fan attached to duct as exhaust (for now), 1 4" personal fan as intake, 1 12" oscillating fan outside the space but blowing toward the plants.

Heat: 78-85 daytime (though 90 not uncommon), 60-65 night.

Humidity: 20-30% daytime (too low, I know...), over 30% at night.

CO2: Using the yeast/sugarwater mix in an old orange juice bottle with a hole in the top--I give it a good shake every now and then and try to shut off the fans for a few minutes, though it can get awful warm without them.

Seeds: Bag seeds collected from some quality bags.

*About 3 weeks ago...*

I germinated these seeds, using a moist paper towel on a plate covered with a bowl. Highly effective. Only 2 failed to sprout at all (leaving me with more than anticipated).

Once germinated, they went into 16oz clear plastic cups with 4 drainage slits cut into each one. After about a week and a half in these, they were upcanned to the 5.5" square pots. 

During this time, they experienced varying degrees of stress related to...

1) Over-watering. The soil looked crusty, my finger came out dry, I guess the cup felt light, so I watered. The Miracle Grow soil I started with retained more moisture than I believed, leading to the plants getting a little droopy.

2) Shortly after (Feb. 17 I think) I upcanned to the 5.5" square pots and watered thoroughly. During the transfer, I tried to remove as much MG soil as possible, and invariably damaged the delicate roots (some more than others). Not too bad though.

3) Heat. Somedays, the heat got above 90 and stayed there for a while. This led to some yellowing and necrosis in the leaves, but I simply cut the bad part off the leaf. I've been busting as$ to try and improve the ventilation of this tiny space...progress is being made.

4) Humidity. Average 23%. Can't fix it. Tried paper towels, tried cups of water, bought a $15 dollar humidifier from Sears (and promptly returned as it had no effect--it was just a sponge in a res of water with a fan blowing out), just can't fix it. Tried buildling small humidity tents of seran wrap--worked, but made the plants too hot cuz no breeze from fans. I've just accepted that its low. All plants are growing and producing new growth, so I'm not too worried. And its good to be low during flower, so I'll have that to look forward to!

Here's what I've got so far...

This is a general view inside. Note the general droop--still recovering from too much heat/water.






This next pic shows the biggest girl of the lot...she had some trauma and got a leaf tip snipped, but is doing fine for 2 weeks and a couple days.






This next one is of the same plant about 5 days ago...you can see the trauma on that has since been cut off






None of these plants have been watered since their upcanning on Feb. 17. I mist ~once/day, causing the top of the soil to get a little damp, but no actual watering. I am now using a $5 moisture meter from Lowes that tells me when the soil is actually dry (at least until I learn to just recognize it). Since they have been slightly overwatered I want to ensure they are really DRY before they get wet again.

I will also begin using Fox Farm Grow Big (6-4-4) and Big Bloom (0.01-0.3-0.7) plant foods during the next feeding. I will likely use 1/4 of the recommended dosage and gradually increase as the plants adjust.

Any/all comments, suggestions, questions welcome!

~JG


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 3, 2009)

Yesterday I took moisture readings of all the plants using my moisture meter from Lowes. *10 DAYS *since their last water and they finally registered in the dry/red zone on the meter. I took this opportunity to give the plants their first dose of nutes. I was planning on only using 1/4 of the recommended dosage, but the Grow Big suggested 1 tsp/gallon for standard feeding, which seemed conservative enough, so I went with .5tsp/.5gallon. I also used .5tsp of Big Bloom--my (not so) local hydro shop guy suggested using this throughout the life cycle and not only during budding, and a quick glance of the contents (Earthworm Castings, Bat and Seabird Guano) reassured me that I wouldn't do any harm using this stuff.

One day after feeding, the difference is staggering. All the droopy plants have perked up nicely and just look stronger...

Here is a general view of the improvement. Note the one on the left in front of the CO2 bottle was not watered witht he rest because the soil was still a little damp.







This is the same lady from the previous post (the biggest of the lot thus far)--note how all leaves have picked up are are not drooping at all.






So there it is. After one day of nutes the girls have all perked up.

I'm still constantly fighting the temp in there, so I may construct a "DIY Closet AC" using a styrofoam cooler, ice, duct, and a fan to move some colder air into the space. My goal is to stay 78-83 without aid from the large 12" fan (that sits on my toilet and requires me to move everytime I have to go...). I'll update pics of the cooler after I make it and give a report of its functionality.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 4, 2009)

With some free time this morning I put together a DIY AC united as suggested in the following thread: https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/166300-diy-air-conditioning-closet-grows.html

I cut a ~5" hole in the side of the cooler, near the base (cold air sinks, so I wanted to draw air from the bottom). I then placed my 3" personal desk fan in the hole blowing out. To the other end of the fan I attached 3" expandable ducting from lowes. I didn't think this was going to produce enough pull to travel the 4' up to the grow space, so I cut the 3" duct in half and inserted a CPU fan (of unknown cfm...came from an old school apple) between the sections to act as an inline air booster. I then cut 3 holes in the lid of my styrofoam cooler to allow airflow. I purchased 6 $2 ice packs from Target (all they had in stock of the large size) and plan on using 3 at a time, so I always have three frozen packs ready to go.

Here's the cooler. Note: I didn't seal the lid onto the cooler. The suction produced from the fan is enough to hold the lid on firmly.






Here's an interior view and the duct going up to the shelf above. Note the square cpu fan duct taped in the center.






I had a small amount of ice in my freezer that I just threw in the cooler until the ice packs freeze. Currently, the temp is holding at 77 degrees with only my two cpu exhaust fans running and this ac.


----------



## Tatan (Mar 4, 2009)

This looks great for a first grow man and tons of info, I´m on my first grow as well, so I´ll be following your thread.

I think you forgot to tell us what strain you are growing...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 4, 2009)

Tatan said:


> This looks great for a first grow man and tons of info, I´m on my first grow as well, so I´ll be following your thread.
> 
> I think you forgot to tell us what strain you are growing...


Thanks for the kind words Tatan. I've been doing lots of research and want to share the knowledge as best I can. I also think visuals are key, so I will be including lots of pics to help explain.

As for the strain...they are all bagseed, though I can attest the bags they came from were quality. I mixed all the seeds together, so I can only try to classify them by phenotype. As they get bigger I should have a better idea of who is related to who.

AC UPDATE: It works. Temp is holding ~78 with no fans. Lets just hope it stays this way.

I've also begun to catch fleeting whiffs of the faintest aroma...


----------



## Tatan (Mar 4, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Thanks for the kind words Tatan. I've been doing lots of research and want to share the knowledge as best I can. I also think visuals are key, so I will be including lots of pics to help explain.
> 
> As for the strain...they are all bagseed, though I can attest the bags they came from were quality. I mixed all the seeds together, so I can only try to classify them by phenotype. As they get bigger I should have a better idea of who is related to who.
> 
> ...


 
Good thing about the temp  , and yeah I agree about the pics... they are essential to get a better idea of the grow. Im trying to do the same on my journal.
I think its cool that you are growing some bagseed, I´m doing the same for half my grow. I heard somebody on this forum say that a lot of times bagseed is great, cause sometimes people have to sell really good quality weed at a lower price just cause some damn male got in there and now the weed has seeds in it, lol. Btw, I have been using miracle grow potting soil as well, and I can see what you mean about it retaining a lot of moisture... I am also worried I might be overwatering due to it. It´s a good thing you were able to substitute for it. 

And yeah, as your plants get older, maybe you can start seeing at first if its more indica or sativa by the leaves.. anbd then maybe by the height and bud formation you can kind of guess at its origins...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 5, 2009)

Tatan said:


> I have been using miracle grow potting soil as well, and I can see what you mean about it retaining a lot of moisture... I am also worried I might be overwatering due to it. It´s a good thing you were able to substitute for it.


I would get some perlite and mix some into your MG soil if you can. The soil around the central root ball just stayed moist for days, even though the surrounding/top soil was dry and crusty. Though I never added perlite to mine (because I could upgrade to the good $hit!) I think it would help immensely, and you can get it at lowes or home depot for pretty cheap.

I agree about the bagseed thing too--one pesky undetected male can cost someone a big chunk of change! On a related note, I remember reading that pollen from male cannibus plants can stay viable for a long time--if a male has a chance to release the pollen from their balls, it gets in everything it can, and can contaminate future grows, especially indoors. So weed those guys out early.

Just checked out your journal and they're looking good! Keep up the good work and share the knowledge!


----------



## Tatan (Mar 5, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> I would get some perlite and mix some into your MG soil if you can. The soil around the central root ball just stayed moist for days, even though the surrounding/top soil was dry and crusty. Though I never added perlite to mine (because I could upgrade to the good $hit!) I think it would help immensely, and you can get it at lowes or home depot for pretty cheap.
> 
> I agree about the bagseed thing too--one pesky undetected male can cost someone a big chunk of change! On a related note, I remember reading that pollen from male cannibus plants can stay viable for a long time--if a male has a chance to release the pollen from their balls, it gets in everything it can, and can contaminate future grows, especially indoors. So weed those guys out early.
> 
> Just checked out your journal and they're looking good! Keep up the good work and share the knowledge!


 
Yeah I added some perlite already lol...

Keep the pics coming


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 6, 2009)

Sorry for the delayed update...been busy finishing up classes before spring break.

AC UPDATE: Temps were beginning to climb up to around 84, so I put my 4" fan near the AC duct blowing towards my plants. It may have helped. Temp continues to stay around 78-81 on the whole. Even without the icepacks, the air drawn through the cooler is considerably cooler than that in the grow space, and helps with the temp--reassuring, as now I won't worry as much about the temp rising if the ice packs thaw out...

Upon my daily misting and inspection yesterday, I noticed some of the soil had already become dry and the pots comparatively light. I used the moisture meter and discovered three of the girls were already reading in the dry zone. I watered fully a couple days ago for the first time since repotting, so maybe they were just thristy?

Either way, I elected to water the three driest. Some of the others were still sufficiently moist, so they only received a misting.

For feeding, I decided to continue with the fertilizer and mixed a 1L spray bottle with a capful of Grow Big and a capful of Big Bloom. This is a higher concentration than last time of the Grow Big, but they responded favorably last time so I tried it again. This time, however, I administered some of the food foliarly using the spray (usually I use a spray bottle top without the spray nozzle--it creates a smaller hole from which I can gently administer the food).

A few hours after feeding, they were drooping hardcore...so badly I was distraught over the situation for most of the evening. By morning though they rebounded as I always knew they would, and are looking much better today. See for yourselves...

A general view of the plants this morning...little droopy still...






Here's another view of the front...






From the top down...note the two little guys in the back coming along nicely






A close-up of one of the tops...just keeps spitting out new leaves!






Another close-up, this one a profile showing the undergrowth






So that's it. I'll let you know if their status changes.


----------



## Tatan (Mar 6, 2009)

Those plants are looking great, nice and compact. I really like how you have the Cfl up top really close to the plants. I´m using the same splitter to put 2 bulbs in 1 socket, nice. 

Btw, how do you do it to put your pics inside your post ? I only know how to put in thumbnails that people have to click to see the enlarged pic.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 6, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Those plants are looking great, nice and compact. I really like how you have the Cfl up top really close to the plants. I´m using the same splitter to put 2 bulbs in 1 socket, nice.
> 
> Btw, how do you do it to put your pics inside your post ? I only know how to put in thumbnails that people have to click to see the enlarged pic.


Yeah, I actually have three Y-splitters plugged in to each other, so I get 4 cfl's from one socket. I screw that into a socket that plugs into an extension cord and viola! A cheap way to cram lots of light in a small space. I have three separate fixtures, each with 4 cfls. Creates great coverage, and you can lower them as close as you want (I actually had to raise them a couple chain links today ). To suspend them, I have hooks screwed into the top of my space, from which I run a chain around the splitters--because there are 4 of them per fixture, they are relatively stable and will just hang there without too much trouble. The chain also allows for easy adjustment of light height (and will allow me to drop the lights down when they outgrow the current shelf and move to the floor...still a little ways off on that though). As always, I have pics to help illustrate my ramblings...

Here you can see the whole setup. The Y-Splitters are each rated to 660watts, so provided you don't exceed the total wattage you should be able to screw as many of these together as you want with no worry. The beauty of cfls is each one is only 26watts...i'm pulling 104watts per fixture, well under the max. The plug-socket is also rated to 660 watts.






You can get the splitters and plug-sockets for less than $2 each, and any extension cord will be sufficient (another convienent feature is the fixtures can all be plugged into each other so only one cord needs to be run to a wall outlet).

It should be noted that lowes and home depot both carry these splitters. The one pictured above is from lowes, and has a less extreme angle of Y than those from home depot, pictured below. In other words, the home depot splitter forms a 90 degree angle, while the lowes splitter is more like 70 degrees. This is important when screwing many together, as the home depot one (with a larger angle) will spread the bulbs out more than the lowes splitter. It may or may not be desireable to have them spread that far out, but I like mine closer together (and the ones from lowes come individually packaged and just looked cleaner).






So to clarify, the splitter above is from home depot and the plug-socket is from lowes. In the first picture, its the other way around. I don't have a preference of plug socket.

To embed pics directly in your post, you need to select the "direct link" URL from whatever site you post your pics to (I use photobucket) and paste it into the "insert image" URL when posting.

Hope that helps!

P.S. Got my mylar today in the mail...may be doing some redecorating in the space tomorrow with my new-found free time...


----------



## Tatan (Mar 6, 2009)

Very nice... I think I´m going to try using multiple splitters on a single socket like you are doing. Right now im only using 1 and getting 2 bulbs per socket. 

Thankis a lot for showing me how to inbed pictures, I didnbt know I had to upload them somewhere, hehehe.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 8, 2009)

After a busy day working in the garden yesterday, I have much to share today.

I administered another round of watering yesterday, again with stepped up nutrients. I used 2 tsp Grow Big, 1/2 cup Big Bloom, 1 tbsp high-phosphate indonesian bat guano, and 1 gallon distilled water (high-nitrogen would have been preferable, but I don't have any, and the store isn't exactly down the road). After giving most a thorough feeding, they began to do their customary post-watering droop. They responded well to their feeding, and as expected have lost most of their droop.

Here's an overview of their general disposition today








This one shows the stem and undergrowth of the front right plant above...looks pretty healthy I think






I'm having trouble finding a spot for the thermometer now that they are getting so big






Here's another from the front





After watering, I decided the bubble-wrap insulation had to go. While it created a nice false-wall on one side of the grow space, it retained too much heat, and temps began climbing back into the high 80's even with the ac unit running. This may be a result of the weather getting warmer (was like 75 outside yesterday...should be in the 80's today), and it is likely only going to get hotter over the next few months, so i took down 3 sides and replaced with mylar-like film (very thin...maybe too thin). It allowed me increase the interior space by a couple inches as well (though now there is gap from which the plants could fall...i'll just have to be careful)

This one's a little dark, but you can see the mylar.






Temp this morning was 75. Hope it stays that way.

I also had a slight mishap yesterday...while putting back up the lights I dropped one of the fixtures, breaking a bulb. So, I'm down to 11 right now. At least the plants were safe in the bathtub!

So that's it. I'm going out of town in a couple days, gonna be gone for 5 or so...I've got someone coming by to check on the babies for me. I'm going to water them again just before I go, but they have been gobbling up water so I may need the sitter to feed them.

Is it ok to pre-mix my nutrients in water and let it sit for a few days? I would like to brew up a batch and leave it for the sitter to feed in necessary.

I also want to start determining sex as soon as I get back from my trip so I can stop wasting my nutrients on males and upcan the females to their larger pots.

So this is basically the worst-time vacation ever, but I had little control over it. I think I've grown so attached to the little girls I don't want to leave them!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 8, 2009)

I thought it was worth noting that the humidity has been around 40% (45% right now) for the last few days. I think the ac unit has also increased the humidity of the room while lowering the temp. Awesome.


----------



## Tatan (Mar 8, 2009)

Those plants are looking really awesome I like such short spacing between nodes, means they are getting good light.

Pre mixing is fine, however most people here reccomend that you start feeding them when you put them on 12/12, so up to you. 
I hope the sexing goes well when you get back, lol hope we both get enough females (crossing fingers)... hehehe


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 9, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Those plants are looking really awesome I like such short spacing between nodes, means they are getting good light.
> 
> Pre mixing is fine, however most people here reccomend that you start feeding them when you put them on 12/12, so up to you.
> I hope the sexing goes well when you get back, lol hope we both get enough females (crossing fingers)... hehehe



I am certainly flooding their small space with light, so that's good. As far as the feeding, I've read just the opposite, that most people wait until the plant is at least 2 weeks old (the thought being the plant is more established and stronger than beginning to feed at the seedling stage) to begin feeding. I will certainly continue feeding when I hit 12/12 though.

And yeah, here's to hoping for girls! I only really need one, but I'd like all 13 ya know?


----------



## Tatan (Mar 9, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> I am certainly flooding their small space with light, so that's good. As far as the feeding, I've read just the opposite, that most people wait until the plant is at least 2 weeks old (the thought being the plant is more established and stronger than beginning to feed at the seedling stage) to begin feeding. I will certainly continue feeding when I hit 12/12 though.
> 
> And yeah, here's to hoping for girls! I only really need one, but I'd like all 13 ya know?


Good luck on the trip, yeah it´s hard leaving your girls... but there is a reward... there is nothing like seeing your plants after a few days, hehehe cause you really notice the growth, so its cool.

By the way, do you plan or topping your plants ? It makes them rounder and bushier, but some people prefer 1 main stem.

As far as the sexing goes, hehe yeah I do hope you get all 13. I guess I should have done what you did, get a lot of plants. If you have a lot of plants you dont sweat the sexing so much. Thats why for my next grow, I´m going with feminized seeds


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 9, 2009)

Hey man, you seem to be off to a good start here. You will find that your humidity will continue to rise as the plants grow and the increased number of leaves respirating pump a lot of moisture into the air. Keeping the humidity down in flower is always a bigger battle than keeping it higher in veg. Bud mold sucks. Also if you are still worrying about whether or not to water just lift up the pots every day. You will notice that immediately after watering they are quite heavy and will get progressively lighter until they feel empty when dry. So yea, good luck with the sexing and grow in general. -/\/\ared


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 9, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Good luck on the trip, yeah it´s hard leaving your girls... but there is a reward... there is nothing like seeing your plants after a few days, hehehe cause you really notice the growth, so its cool.
> 
> By the way, do you plan or topping your plants ? It makes them rounder and bushier, but some people prefer 1 main stem.


Yeah, I'm impressed every morning I wake up, so 5 days should be awesome.

I haven't really decided whether or not to top them--I'd really like some input/suggestions. I think it depends on how many are girls. Plus, my space is cramped, so there can only really be 8 max growing in there at once.



mared juwan said:


> Hey man, you seem to be off to a good start here. You will find that your humidity will continue to rise as the plants grow and the increased number of leaves respirating pump a lot of moisture into the air. Keeping the humidity down in flower is always a bigger battle than keeping it higher in veg. Bud mold sucks. Also if you are still worrying about whether or not to water just lift up the pots every day. You will notice that immediately after watering they are quite heavy and will get progressively lighter until they feel empty when dry. So yea, good luck with the sexing and grow in general. -/\/\ared


Thanks Mared, I was wondering if it was the ac thing or something else bringing it up. The leaves are getting big...though the humidity is still only 37 or so. We'll see as the spring/summer approaches.

I've also become much better at recognizing the weight of the girls as you suggested--now they are bigger and drinking more, so it is easier to tell the difference. I still use the moisture meter just to be sure they are thoroughly dry before being watered again.

Thank you both for your input. Gonna post an update with pics before I leave.

Throw me some opinions about topping!


----------



## Tatan (Mar 9, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Yeah, I'm impressed every morning I wake up, so 5 days should be awesome.
> 
> I haven't really decided whether or not to top them--I'd really like some input/suggestions. I think it depends on how many are girls. Plus, my space is cramped, so there can only really be 8 max growing in there at once.
> 
> ...


 
I had the same question, cause my plants in veg are only a few days older than yours. My goal is to get my plants to look like the plant Mammath has in his grow room:

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/159334-stealth-cabinet-grow-bagseed-test.html


He posted on my grow journal about how to get them like that. Basically if you top them when they are around 3 inches talland then you have to get the branches to fan out. Take a look ... I think you will like


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 12, 2009)

Tatan said:


> I had the same question, cause my plants in veg are only a few days older than yours. My goal is to get my plants to look like the plant Mammath has in his grow room:
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/159334-stealth-cabinet-grow-bagseed-test.html
> 
> ...


That is definately an attactive method...something to consider when I get back in town.

Being away from the girls is hard ...but my sitter has been updating me daily, and things are apparently going well.

At least I'll have a lot to look forward too when I get home! I'll be sure to post some pics when I get back too!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 15, 2009)

The condition of the plants is varied, with extremes at both ends of the spectrum (unfortunately). I think I burned the big one.

I was a little overzealous with the nutes during their last feeding before I left. I wanted to leave my sitter with the least amount of work possible while watching them, so I gave them a good feeding and went on my way. 

Many have turned a very dark green color: surely a sign of too much Nitrogen. * The majority still look good, *just a little dark. My pride and joy up to this point, however, was not so lucky. Most/all of the large fan leaves had moderate to severe browning and dessication. Figuring these leaves were not going to recover, I snipped them off as close to the stem as I could. Some were salvageable, but I decided increasing light to the undergrowth was more important than keeping the partially decayed leaves anyway.

Here's a few pics. The sitter watered this morning before I got in, so they are drooping, but I think they'll perk up. You can see the dark green in the background, but they don't look too bad.





In the front you can see my mangled beauty. Being my first grow, I'm treating this as a learning experience. The best way I can learn is to just do it and see what happens. The top is still going strong...maybe too strong...maybe I should top or fim it...

Also note in this picture the two plants in the round pot on the left--they were so small when I left they have really taken off! Here's another close up...






Here's a close up of of the pruned plant...stem is getting nice and thick, so I'm thinking it can come back strong






Here are a couple shots of the removed leaves...sorry I didn't have any while they were still attached to the plant












My next major project is to determine sex and upcan the females to the larger pots. That will be coming about sooner than later, so stay tuned...


----------



## Tatan (Mar 15, 2009)

Was all the damage caused by the excess nitrogen, or did some plants get too close to the light as well ?

Well the ones that didnt get damaged are looking really nice. 

Next comes the sexing... to me thats the most exciting part, hope you get a lot of females


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 15, 2009)

I raised the lights before I left, and they are still a good distance from them, so I don't think that was it. I'm fairly certain I burned it with nutrients. They've been flushed with water so they'll get a little break before they're next feeding (at slightly reduced concentration).


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 16, 2009)

The plants look pretty good today. Not a whole lot has changed.

Here are the two babies...hardly babies anymore though!






Here are the other girls, coming along fine. I watered a couple today.






Here's the other three...






And finally a close-up of the under growth of the new largest plant...its the one on the right in the above picture






As I said, some were watered today with a 1/4 teaspoon grow big and 1 tablespoon big bloom to 1 liter distilled water. The last one was included in that watering.

I've made the decision to switch my lighting to 12/12 to induce flowering. I want to get them into bigger pots, but first I need to weed out the males, as I have enough room for 8 plants at the current moment. This is subject to change, however, if I have more than 8 females--I will not abandon a single girl due to lack of space. I may potentially move the operation to my closet, but that would require a serious undertaking to fit out the new space.

Either way, sexing has to happen, and I'm thinking of beginning tonight at 5pm...


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 16, 2009)

Hey Jerry, plants look awesome. I wouldn't disagree with flowering today. They will be plenty big. I would have thought you would get preflowers by now. Should be soon. I think the droopy plant is suffering from something other than overnute. Nutes won't cause a droop like that. My guess is overwatering. It can also cause necrotic spots but the leaf damage in your pics is a bit old to tell exactly the cause. But it should recover just fine. Only other thing I would recommend is to separate the two plants in the same pot ASAP. I imagine the roots are already tangled together pretty well. It might be too late. But that's definitely something you want to avoid in the future. Plants like their own personal root space. You run the risk of them choking each other out.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 16, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Hey Jerry, plants look awesome. I wouldn't disagree with flowering today. They will be plenty big. I would have thought you would get preflowers by now. Should be soon. I think the droopy plant is suffering from something other than overnute. Nutes won't cause a droop like that. My guess is overwatering. It can also cause necrotic spots but the leaf damage in your pics is a bit old to tell exactly the cause. But it should recover just fine. Only other thing I would recommend is to separate the two plants in the same pot ASAP. I imagine the roots are already tangled together pretty well. It might be too late. But that's definitely something you want to avoid in the future. Plants like their own personal root space. You run the risk of them choking each other out.


Thanks for your input mared. Regarding the droop, I'm pretty sure it is a watering-related issue and not nutrients. Some of the leaves have a deep deep green that I think resulted from lots of nitrogen, but not too much to do real damage.

As for flowering, I'm glad you think its a good time. I am a little unsure how much additional growth the plant will undergo during flower, but figure it to be about 2-3x the current size when all is said and done.

I can't yet discern if any of these are preflowers, but maybe you can?
























As for separating the two plants in the same pot...both my round pots have two plants in them. The first happened inadvertently--the second was more an attempt to conserve space. I'm going to wait and see what happens regarding sex, and then make some sort of decision to separate or something.

I have a question though regarding switching to 12-12...how soon should I change the 6500k lights for the 2700k? Immediately? I'm also going to rig up my 150w hps sometime, though that one may happen a little farther down the line.

I'm going to turn off the lights at 6pm tonight. They normally wake up at 4am, but I'm going to switch that to 6am tomorrow morning. 

More input is always appreciated!


----------



## Tatan (Mar 16, 2009)

From the pictures, you dont have any preflowers yet...
Yes, you should switch to the warm lights as soon as you switch to 12/12.

Plants are looking really nice... looks like you are set.


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 16, 2009)

Yea, if you use the CFLs switch to the 2700K right away. I would try to get the HPS going as soon as you can though. A lot of light early in flower will help keep stretching to a minimum. The less stretching, the more compact the plant and less spread out the budsites will be. You want the budsites as close together as possible because when the buds grow into each other and combine is when you really get fat nuggets. As far as the sexing it looks like you might be just beginning to develop something there. Keep an eye on the spot that I have circled below. If the little lump there sprouts some white hairs than you've got a female.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 16, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Yea, if you use the CFLs switch to the 2700K right away. I would try to get the HPS going as soon as you can though. A lot of light early in flower will help keep stretching to a minimum. The less stretching, the more compact the plant and less spread out the budsites will be. You want the budsites as close together as possible because when the buds grow into each other and combine is when you really get fat nuggets. As far as the sexing it looks like you might be just beginning to develop something there. Keep an eye on the spot that I have circled below. If the little lump there sprouts some white hairs than you've got a female.


I will certainly switch out the cfl's for their first day then. And I'll work on getting the hps up and running in the next couple days.

I have a question about timing the lights for the transition. I've been reading about giving a 24-hour dark period immediately before switching to 12/12, and think this is a good idea to speed up sexing. I want to keep their "morning" at the same time, so I will leave the lights on and all night (normal bedtime is 10pm, morning 4am) giving them 8 extra hours of daylight, then give 26 hours darkness from 4am Tuesday to 6am Wedensday. The lights will come on Wednesday morning at 6am, and go off at 6pm. This way they aren't coming on at night and going off during the day. I'm choosing 6am/pm because it is more convenient than 4am/pm.

An alternative would be to give it 36 hours of darkness (6pm today until 6am Wednesday) and begin 12-12 at 6am Wednesday.

I've read some people give 24/0 light for one week, then go 24 hours dark before 12/12, so I figure a few extra hours of light before some extended darkness shouldn't do any harm, right?

So I don't know. I was going to shut them off at 6pm tonight and start at 6am tomorrow and begin 12/12, but now I've read all this and don't know what to do!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 16, 2009)

Tatan said:


> From the pictures, you dont have any preflowers yet...
> Yes, you should switch to the warm lights as soon as you switch to 12/12.
> 
> Plants are looking really nice... looks like you are set.


Thanks Tatan; I didn't see any preflowers either, but what do I know?

You're girls are looking pretty good yourself! That bagseed beauty of yours is huge! And your little ones are coming along nicely as well. Keep up the good work and pics!


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 16, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> I will certainly switch out the cfl's for their first day then. And I'll work on getting the hps up and running in the next couple days.
> 
> I have a question about timing the lights for the transition. I've been reading about giving a 24-hour dark period immediately before switching to 12/12, and think this is a good idea to speed up sexing. I want to keep their "morning" at the same time, so I will leave the lights on and all night (normal bedtime is 10pm, morning 4am) giving them 8 extra hours of daylight, then give 26 hours darkness from 4am Tuesday to 6am Wedensday. The lights will come on Wednesday morning at 6am, and go off at 6pm. This way they aren't coming on at night and going off during the day. I'm choosing 6am/pm because it is more convenient than 4am/pm.
> 
> ...


I don't know about any of that. I've never been tempted to try any of those methods. 24 hr veg light straight to 12/12 works just fine for me. From what I have heard monkeying around with the light early in flower will increase chance for hermies. Especially of concern with feminized seeds. I especially don't understand what a 24 hr light period would do. Flower is supposed to be the imitation of autumn. Autumn does not begin with a period of 24 hour light after many days of less light. Daylight time decreases as autumn draws near. I would think nature does it best. IDK maybe I'm old school LOL.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 16, 2009)

Most of what I've read indicated changing the light schedule while already in flower can increase the chance of hermies, but doing so before initiating that stage of development seems to be ok... I've been going 18/6, and the only reason I would give it 24 hours light is to give it 24 hours dark the next day before before starting 12/12 and still keep my morning in the am and evening in the pm.

Maybe I'll just start 12/12 at 6am tomorrow and let things happen as they happen...


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 16, 2009)

IDK, I hesitate to give advice on anything I haven't tried myself so maybe you should give it a shot. What works for me might not work for you. I actually run my lights the exact opposite. On at 6pm, off at 6am. A little more efficient with heating and cooling costs.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 16, 2009)

Ya know, I was thinking about doing that, as the days will start getting hotter and hotter and it would be easier to keep temps down if running the lights at night. The problem I have is that the space is connected to my bathroom, which I need to access at various points during the day (and less so at night), so it would be harder keeping light out during the day while they sleep.

But this is my first grow, so its all just experimentation and discovering what works for me and my situation. I'll keep it the way I've got it now, and if heat becomes a problem again I'll consider switching for the next round!


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 16, 2009)

Yea I have a 400 watt and a 600 watt and keeping the room cool can be a chore. But I also barely need to use the heat in the winter. You might consider getting a green colored light bulb for your bathroom. They have green CFLs at Walmart that are plenty bright. Green light doesn't disturb the plants' photoperiod. Might be weird taking a shit in a green room though LOL.


----------



## Blazer500 (Mar 16, 2009)

any word on the sex? im def interested in seeing your progress, im a couple weeks ahead of you, and can tell that you are taking all the right steps. please keep us informed and keep up w the pics. If you were interested this is my baby girl.

Also, you gonna convert to hps? i was thinking about doing the same, but ive only got one plant so am not sure if its worth throwing down 200 bucks


----------



## Tatan (Mar 16, 2009)

I would tend to agree with Mared here. From what Ive read, there is no benefit to going 24 hours straight dark. This is so since the plant accumulates a certain chemical during dark hours. If the time of the dark period is longer than the threshold for that particular plant, the plant will switch to flower mode after a few days. This threshold varies between species, so most people go for 12/12 since 12 hours dark works for them all. 
What Ive been doing is 24 hours light in veg to make them grow faster and then straight into 12/12.
Also yeah... I like the idea of foing the 6 pm - 6am dark period. This will help a lot if you think you might have temperature problems in the summer.
Anyway, I´m on my first grow as well, so I´m doing the same as you.. just seeing what works best and try to learn for futures grows


----------



## growforgood904 (Mar 16, 2009)

hey Jerry and Titan . i am starting my first as well. 2 seeds of blue cheese from buddha seeds. and cannadential from dna (reg) and 2 of k-train from green house. i will keep you updated and look forward to seeing what u guyshave!! stay blessed!!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 16, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> But I also barely need to use the heat in the winter. You might consider getting a green colored light bulb for your bathroom. Might be weird taking a shit in a green room though LOL.


Just bought a 25watt incandescent party bulb--not cfl (Lowes didn't have a green cfl, and I'll only need a little light for a few minutes at a time). Should be a big help.



Blazer500 said:


> any word on the sex? im def interested in seeing your progress, im a couple weeks ahead of you, and can tell that you are taking all the right steps. please keep us informed and keep up w the pics. If you were interested this is my baby girl.
> 
> Also, you gonna convert to hps? i was thinking about doing the same, but ive only got one plant so am not sure if its worth throwing down 200 bucks


No word on sex yet...see my post from earlier today and feel free to make predictions! Will be starting 24 hours darkness in the morning, then right in to 12/12, so I'm thinking I'll know in the next few days.

You're plant is looking good. How many lights do you have it under? Just the one? The more the merrier as they say, so adding one or two will help immensely.

Regarding switching to hps, HID lamps like hps will give much better results during flower than strictly using fluoros, though soft white 2700k fluoros can be effective. I have no personal experience to back that statement (yet), but that is the impression I've gotten from scouring the message boards.

For flower I will be using a 150watt hps (16,000 lumens) with balast included in fixture--this was $85 at my local hydro store, so I'm sure you can find one cheaper. They also make 70watt hps which is probably less expensive still. You don't need a 400 or 600watt hps for one plant, so you shouldn't have to spend $200.

In addition, I will be using 11 23watt 2700k cfls (1600 lumens each; 17,600 total), 2 65watt 2700 cfls (3900 lumens each; 7800 total), 2 2' 24watt t5 ho 2700k (2000 lumens each; 4000 total). This will give me a total lumen output of 45,400 including the hps. Plus, I have a 26watt 10.0 UVB reptile light to be used for a short period every day. So there is a lot of light to make these little girls grow big and stinky!



Tatan said:


> I would tend to agree with Mared here. From what Ive read, there is no benefit to going 24 hours straight dark.
> 
> Anyway, I´m on my first grow as well, so I´m doing the same as you.. just seeing what works best and try to learn for futures grows


I've read lots of testimonials claiming support for both methods. I got the impression it will not cause any real harm to the plant, so I'm going to go 24 hours dark then 12/12. For my next grow, I'll likely be using clones I know are female, so I won't care about revealing sex early. Either way, I'll learn something, and hopefully it will myself or others on their future endeavors!

Thanks for all the input, and I'll be keeping up with the pics for sure!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 16, 2009)

growforgood904 said:


> hey Jerry and Titan . i am starting my first as well. 2 seeds of blue cheese from buddha seeds. and cannadential from dna (reg) and 2 of k-train from green house. i will keep you updated and look forward to seeing what u guyshave!! stay blessed!!


Sounds like some nice strains for a first grow! Do you're homework and learn from my (and others) success and failures! There are a million opinions out there, so find and compare sources you like (RIU, a book, etc) and do it right. Don't hesitate to ask questions either--I may not know much, but I learn more every day and am glad to help where I can!

Good luck and keep us posted...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 17, 2009)

Morning update: Lights were left on till 6am, and 24-hour darkness has now begun. After much consideration I decided to just go ahead and do it. Next time I'll try going straight into 12/12 and compare results, but for my first grow I want to see if a 24-hour dark period before flower will have any impact.

Happy St. Patrick's Day! It's a good day to be GREEN!


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 17, 2009)

I'm sure it will work fine for you Jerry. I'm interested to see whether it speeds things up at all. I'm sure it won't cause any problems. While I try to keep my lighting regular and constant I have made mistakes and had equipment failures before. Plenty of times I have given plants light or darkness at the wrong time and nothing has happened. Once I had a timer fail and lights stayed on for over 72 hours straight in week 3 of flower. I was really worried but still ended up with fat herm-free buds so it was all good. So long as these things don't happen all the time the plants will be fine.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 17, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> I'm sure it will work fine for you Jerry. I'm interested to see whether it speeds things up at all. I'm sure it won't cause any problems. While I try to keep my lighting regular and constant I have made mistakes and had equipment failures before. Plenty of times I have given plants light or darkness at the wrong time and nothing has happened. Once I had a timer fail and lights stayed on for over 72 hours straight in week 3 of flower. I was really worried but still ended up with fat herm-free buds so it was all good. So long as these things don't happen all the time the plants will be fine.


Thanks mared, those are encouraging words!

The temp is hovering around 63 degrees with the lights off today (it's 47 outside right now). I'm thinking this may be a little too cool for an extended night period, so I may bring the temp up a little just to be safe.


----------



## growforgood904 (Mar 17, 2009)

my seedlings cracked.. well some of them!.. here are some photos . yes Jerry they are good strains. got gutsy and odered online! . uhhmm how do you upload pix?


----------



## growforgood904 (Mar 17, 2009)

i figured it out!!! hope these are good!!!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 17, 2009)

growforgood904 said:


> i figured it out!!! hope these are good!!!


They look good. Must be nice to have feminized too...

Your setup looks good. From what I can see you have 4 t5's for veg and a cooltube hps (maybe mh...i'm going with hps). I have those same square pots in the cabinet--nice and deep, should be real good for the girls.

You should start a journal. It's a good way to get input and feedback and share your adventure with the community!

Soil looks like it has a lot of perlite--good drainage. Is it foxfarm?

Also, are you going to put some mylar or something on your walls?

Looking good so far! Good luck!


----------



## growforgood904 (Mar 17, 2009)

yes it is a t5 with flouros.. and i bought the cool tube.. with both MH and HPS .. the guy said i wld benefit from the use of both lights.. no its ot foxfarm . its promix.. i do paln on getting plastic covering.. its not mylar but very similar ... 

when should i switch lights? i am on 24hrs now now. just planted seedlings today?


----------



## growforgood904 (Mar 17, 2009)

oh and how do i start journal?


----------



## growforgood904 (Mar 17, 2009)

i started one Jerry. hope you check it out .... growforgood grow journal.. it is called!!


----------



## Tatan (Mar 17, 2009)

Wow... lots to catch up on since yesterday.

Blazer, very nice plant you got there. Very stocky. Mine looked similar but i topped it. Ill be interested to compare to yours and see the difference in the buds. 

Growforgood, great you stated your journal, I´ll go and check it out. And yeah... its a big bonus to have feminized seeds, I think I´ll go for feminized seeds as well on my second grow.

Now we have to wait and see how many females Jerry gets. I read somewhere that a lot of times bagseed plants tend to have high female ratios cause a lot of times its some damn hermy that went undetected that pollinated the females... so the seeds tend to be "feminized". This is not always the case of course but hope it happens to Jerry. Would be nice to have all females (or most)


----------



## Tatan (Mar 17, 2009)

Jerry, I agree with you that the 150W Hps should be enough, No need to go for 400W. You have so many CFL to compliment the Hps that your plants should be very happy in the light department. 
I read that depending on strain, for veg, plants need between 1500-3000 lumens per square foot, and for flowering they need between 3000-5000 per square foot. You have close to 50 000 ... so thats plenty for the number of plants you have


----------



## growforgood904 (Mar 17, 2009)

now my room isnt hat big so i dont have intake air . just exaust with 6in inline fan.. i am going to have the fan blow through the cool tube and out he room.. does this sound like a good idea?


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 17, 2009)

growforgood904 said:


> now my room isnt hat big so i dont have intake air . just exaust with 6in inline fan.. i am going to have the fan blow through the cool tube and out he room.. does this sound like a good idea?


You'll just have to try it out and see. Having proper exhaust is key, and though I don't have a cool tube I can see the advantage they have. If it starts getting too hot, you may need to add some intake.

It's all part of the game! Have fun with it!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 17, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Wow... lots to catch up on since yesterday.
> 
> Now we have to wait and see how many females Jerry gets. I read somewhere that a lot of times bagseed plants tend to have high female ratios cause a lot of times its some damn hermy that went undetected that pollinated the females... so the seeds tend to be "feminized". This is not always the case of course but hope it happens to Jerry. Would be nice to have all females (or most)


I hope you're right about the feminized bit. It's a logical argument, and now we'll have our own little experiment. I'm betting 50/50, but I'm just a pessimist!


----------



## Tatan (Mar 17, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> I hope you're right about the feminized bit. It's a logical argument, and now we'll have our own little experiment. I'm betting 50/50, but I'm just a pessimist!


 
Well... Ive gotten 3 females out of 5 plants so far. But yeah 50/50 is not bad... Ive read many grows where people get like 1 o 2 females out of 6-8 plants... It happens sometimes.

This will be fun, we will find out in a couple of days. 

Im betting you get 60% female


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 18, 2009)

My 24-hour darkness time has come and gone, and the girls are now on 12/12 starting at 6am. Unfortunately, last night was St. Patrick's day, so I neglected my gardening duties a wee bit and forgot to change out the 6500k cfls for the 2700k version. Oops. It will happen tonight though for sure. And once I get those all situated I will focus on making room for the hps.

I'm a little concerned about the hps though, as it was heating up the little space quite rapidly when I used it before (though my ventilation has improved drastically since then). But, I think its necessary (I mean, I have it, and I spent the money on it, so I might as well use it right?) and it will give me better buds.

No news on the sexing front, though there are what appears to be the beginnings of preflowers showing on a couple plants. It was hard to get a good picture of what I'm seeing...






I strained my eyes for about an hour earlier today trying to will the plant to shoot out little white hairs...It's still too early to really tell







You can almost see the little bumps trying to stick out...







Here's the big one...






Here's a shot of 4 of them...second one from the right is much shorter than the rest






Here's the four plants in the two round pots...






And finally, here are the other 3...my former big girl is struggling on the right...more leaves have begun turning brown, though I haven't administered any more nutrients.






So, there we have it. No real new info to report. I will be monitoring the sex thing closely and updating as I find more. I'll also include an updated shot of my grow space once the hps is up and running.


----------



## Tatan (Mar 18, 2009)

Yeah.. it will be a couple of days. Also I think that the males are supposed to show sex first. So if you see a couple of males dont get discouraged thinking that they are all turning out to be male.


----------



## Tatan (Mar 18, 2009)

Your plants are looking really robust, except for the burnt one, I think you are going to have a really sweet harvest. 
And yeah you should definitely use the HPS, the more light the better.


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 18, 2009)

OK, here's my two cents. See the 4th picture in your last post, labeled "the big one", see how every leaf is almost exactly parallel to the ground. Then the next pic all leaves are pointing towards the ground. For what it's worth, every single one of the leaves in my growroom is like your first pic all of the time. They lay completely flat and parallel to the light with the flattest and largest surface area exposed to the light. This is the best angle for optimum light absorption. So my point is that your frequency of watering is still off. They should never droop that much. Like I said before I'm almost positive that the one you cut the leaves off is not suffering from too much nute but rather too much water. So maybe keep watering all the other plants like normal but choose one to water less just to see what happens. That soil will weigh literally nothing when dry so let that sucker dry out and get some air to its roots. Oxygen is extremely important to healthy plants and big buds. OK, two cents over. 

I definitely vote for HPS. As much light as possible. As long as temps remain below 85 it's good. I can't make out anything as far as sex in the pics. It might take up to a week to really be sure on all of them so be patient.


----------



## Tatan (Mar 18, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> OK, here's my two cents. See the 4th picture in your last post, labeled "the big one", see how every leaf is almost exactly parallel to the ground. Then the next pic all leaves are pointing towards the ground. For what it's worth, every single one of the leaves in my growroom is like your first pic all of the time. They lay completely flat and parallel to the light with the flattest and largest surface area exposed to the light. This is the best angle for optimum light absorption. So my point is that your frequency of watering is still off. They should never droop that much. Like I said before I'm almost positive that the one you cut the leaves off is not suffering from too much nute but rather too much water. So maybe keep watering all the other plants like normal but choose one to water less just to see what happens. That soil will weigh literally nothing when dry so let that sucker dry out and get some air to its roots. Oxygen is extremely important to healthy plants and big buds. OK, two cents over.
> 
> I definitely vote for HPS. As much light as possible. As long as temps remain below 85 it's good. I can't make out anything as far as sex in the pics. It might take up to a week to really be sure on all of them so be patient.


I´m on my first grow as well, but I think Mared might be right about the overwatering... as a matter of fact I think overwatering is the problem with 2 of my plants in veg as well.
Mared, besides drooping, do leaves turn slightly yellow as well due to overwatering, or do they just turn dark green when overwatered ?


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 18, 2009)

Tatan said:


> I´m on my first grow as well, but I think Mared might be right about the overwatering... as a matter of fact I think overwatering is the problem with 2 of my plants in veg as well.
> Mared, besides drooping, do leaves turn slightly yellow as well due to overwatering, or do they just turn dark green when overwatered ?


Overwatering will cause yellowing and eventually brownish gray necrotic patches as well as severe undercurling and/or wilting of the leaves.


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 18, 2009)

From GrowFAQ:

*Over Watering:* 
The plants in figure 5 were on a continous drip system, where nutrient solution is constantly being pumped into the medium. This tends to keep the entire root system completely saturated. A better way would be to periodically feed the plants, say for 1/2 hour every 2-3 hours. This would give the roots a chance to get needed air to them, and prevent root rot and other problems. 
Don't be throw off by the fact that the plants in figure 5 are sitting in still water, this is actually an H2O2 solution used to try and correct the problem. Adding an airstone to the tub would also help add O2 to the solution.


----------



## Tatan (Mar 18, 2009)

Well, I´m going to stop watering one of my plants to test what you said. Thanks.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 18, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> OK, here's my two cents.


You're two cents are always appreciated mared, that's why this journal exists! I'm still trying to figure out their water schedule. I'm overly concerned with under watering I think. As you suggest, I have been using the weight test, though I may not be waiting until they get REALLY light...just lighter than the other ones.

I think their situation will improve once I get them in bigger pots. The plants are getting a little big for their britches, and I can only imagine space for the roots decreases every day. Soon enough, soon enough...

Mared, you say when you water you have no droopage at all? Mine always droop after watering, and usually stay droopy until the next day when they stretch back out.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 19, 2009)

Changed out the lights this morning. currently running 11 23watt 2700k cfls and 2 24watt 3000k t5ho. The 2 large 65watt 2700 cfls and the hps are next on the agenda.

Question about the hps: does anyone know if it acceptable to mount the fixture vertically? I don't think this will have any effect on the bulb, but I'm worried the ballast may not be designed to sit like that (as it is incorporated in the fixture and cannot be removed). Just trying to figure out how to get all the light in the room at one time...

I resisted the temptation to water a couple plants today. One of them in particular is drooping rather heavily, though I know it hasn't been watered for at least 4 days. This is where my problem invariable arises--I fear the drooping is from too LITTLE water, not too much. The pot feels lightish, the moisture meter says its dry, and I know I haven't watered for a couple days...so if its not overwatering causing the droop, I think it's lack of water (which apparently can cause similar signs of stress to underwatering). Ugh.

Here are a few looking good and not droopy






Here's a few looking a little more droopy






Here are the tops from the first shot






And finally the younger set of sisters






Still no sign on sex. Looking pretty much the same. I have patience though (at least I do if I keep telling myself that...)


----------



## growforgood904 (Mar 19, 2009)

Looks good Jerry. I do hope you get an idea on why the droop, so u can fix it!! gl with that.. oh and 3 of 4 of my germs cracked the surface today!!! the other cannadentail is a little behind..


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 19, 2009)

Yea that's the problem. You've got it right - underwatered plants can look very similar to overwatered plants. I wish I could be there to lift up your pots but because I can't I'm just guessing. The clue I was going off was when you got back from your trip you said they were drooping because the sitter had watered them earlier that day. If they were just watered they couldn't be too dry. But maybe I misunderstood. Maybe they really are too dry. Are pulling your hair out yet? LOL The way you can be pretty sure is water a plant and wait for the leaves to flatten out like I said. If it was too dry they should perk up right away. If it was already too wet then it will take a while for the pot to dry out again and the leaves to raise back up.


----------



## Tatan (Mar 19, 2009)

I think I was overwatering, but I was watering every day. Jerry, you need to look at the meter and also how the soil looks...Also, your plants are looking much better than my 2 afflicted plants, one stopped growing and leaves are yellowish and the other is growing awkwardly, with slight yellowing. From everything I have seen here, to me the most likely scenario is that maybe the sitter overwatered while you were gone, but since you even have a meter that measures the soil mositure, I think chances are that you are not overwatering...

I´m pretty sure that I was though.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 19, 2009)

Watering is a bitch. But regardless of what is stressing them, they continue to grow. I'm certainly not watering every day, and for most of them not every 2 days. I'm using every conceivable test to determine what is dry and what needs water. As I said before, I was waiting for the pots to get light relative to the others, but I think maybe they could be a little lighter.

Also, I'm not blaming the sitter. I gave a pretty thorough crash course in watering, and I think they did a fine job, but this is just something that I'll need to fine tune to get it right. And what better way to tune than to practice right?

Anyway, thanks for everyone's help. I'm hoping once they get in their larger pots they can get more regular waterings and we can get this straightened out!

Update to come tomorrow...I'm willing those little white hairs to push themselves out of the nodes!


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 20, 2009)

I wasn't blaming the sitter either. I have utmost respect for people who look out for others like that. My grow would not be possible without my sitter. They do get some compensation but with the secret they are keeping it is well worth it.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 20, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> I wasn't blaming the sitter either. I have utmost respect for people who look out for others like that. My grow would not be possible without my sitter. They do get some compensation but with the secret they are keeping it is well worth it.


Amen to that!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 20, 2009)

So after our discussion about watering frequency and the status of my plants, I was hesitant to water them yesterday morning. By the afternoon, I realized the largest one had begun to droop--but not the way the others droop. The lower branches were losing their ability to support the leaves and were bending down. I took this to be a sign of too little water. The moisture meter indicated the soil was dry, and the pot was light enough, so I decided to water. I found a couple similar candidates and chose to water them, so three in all.

As I am now in the 12/12 cycle, and I've switched the lights, I elected to give them a feeding using the Tiger Bloom and Big Bloom, and ceased use of the Grow Big. I used the recommended dosage of 1-2 tsp per gallon. After watering, they did their customary droop, and stayed that way for the remaining 3 hours of their daylight.

This morning, as expected, they have stood up nice and tall and are looking very nice. Three other plants, watered the day before, are also standing up nice and straight. 

Take a look...





The one on the right was watered yesterday, and is still a little droopy, but I expect it to pick up by tomorrow, if not by the end of the day as the soil dries out a little more.






The one on the right was watered yesterday, the one on the left two days ago. Both looking nice.






These three got watered shortly after taking this pic. The one in the middle is suffering from a similar droop to what I experienced yesterday with the big one. I'm expecting by tomorrow these will look vastly different. All pots were light, the meter read dry, and I knew the round pots haven't been watered for at least 4 days.






Here's the one I slaughtered. It's still alive, but is not doing well. The top leaves are all turning brown, and even the new tips are coming out brown, which I don't think is a good sign. My final prognosis--I over-nuted it, then over-watered it. Roots didn't get to dry out, plant is drowning (not enough O2). I haven't watered in 4 days, and the soil is just now moving out of the wet/moist side of the dial and into just moist. I think I got too excited with this one because it was huge. Oh well, you live and learn. What do you all think about me topping this one? The stem is very thick, and the lower branches are still growing, so just a thought. I wouldn't do it until after it reveals sex though...






Speaking of, here's a shot of one of the big one's nodes--there's a little white nub just chillin between the petiole and the new leaves shooting through...been there for a couple days...looks like its going to be a preflower, but still isn't doing anything






Here's a side shot of the of the right plant from the first pic in today's update






Here's an under shot of the big one. Looks nice.

So all plants are now fairly caught up on water and should be good for at least a couple days. I'll be spending my weekend rigging up the hps and 2 65watt 2700k cfls...

Wish me luck! I'm gonna need it!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 20, 2009)

So I finally got the hps set up. It wasn't easy. I almost moved my operation to the closet because it was marginally bigger. But I made it work and here it is.








The setup is good, but the area beneath the ballast on the left is pretty deprived of light, except for the 2 t5's. Oh well, its worth it for 16,000 extra lumens.

I was initially concerned about the heat, but early returns suggest it will be ok. I've placed the thermometer above the lights, clipped to a chain. I figured it was the best spot because heat rises, but at the same time it might be hotter than I think under the lights. We'll see what happens.


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 20, 2009)

Everything looks terrific. Just take a scientific approach to figuring out the watering and you'll have fat buds for sure. And you're watering isn't that much off in the first place. From the pics those round pots seem huge compared to the size of the plant so 4 days for them to dry out is not a long time at all. I would go ahead and top the one that got mangled. The lower shoots look healthier than the taller main stalk. But yea the lighting looks great. Keep it up man!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 21, 2009)

Things went fine today. I managed to add one 65watt cfl, but haven't quite figured out what to do with the other one. I attached a couple pics that show the setup. Cramped, but lots of light.

The big plant began to wilt today--2 days after last water. The top 1/3 of the main stem was leaning a little, and other stems showed a similar state. The lights have already gone out, but I gave a brisk watering anyway. Not a very thorough watering (the water never dripped out the bottom) but enough to hopefully pick things up a little overnight.

That's it. No heat problems thus far with the hps. I added a second duct to my homemade ac unit, using a single 80mm 39cfm cpu fan. While the fan works, I thought 39 cfm was a decent number...turns out its not much better than my free old school apple original. At least there are 2 running now...I got the fan on ebay for like $4 so as always you get what you pay for. I'm considering investing in a 100+cfm if the heat becomes a bigger issue. But only if necessary.

I'll get some more pics up tomorrow!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 22, 2009)

Well, no sign of sex today. The little bumps are still just that--haven't gotten too much bigger, and don't really look like balls, but they are still very small. My guess is these are males as I'm told they reveal sex first. Bummer, because one is real big and I have grown somewhat attached 

I'm holding out hope though. After only 4 days, I shouldn't expect too much.

Most/all have become droopy between yesterday and today. The pots are getting real light 2 days after water. I think the bigger ones are going through the water much faster, so they were probably wilting due to lack of water, and definitely not too much water.

4 received thorough waterings today. The rest get misting/light watering until tomorrow (or later today, depending on their condition) when they will be re-evaluated and probably watered. Here's a couple pics before I watered. Note how droopy they've gotten in just 2 days...CRAZY...they need bigger pots stat!






Here's the other three...the difference in one day is staggering






Here are the doubles. The younger pair on the left are looking good since their watering, while the two on the right are showing early signs of droopage, but still look good.






That's all for today. Still looking to add the other 65watt cfl (note the other one in pics from yesterday and the position of the bulb--trying to get some light to that undergrowth!). Otherwise, temp is holding about 75-79, and things are moving along.

I'm going to top the sick one once I've determined sex and if it is worth my time (and extra space, as I was going to use the top as a clone). I'll post any further developments as they, um, develop.


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 22, 2009)

Looking good, Jerry. This droopage issue is rather curious indeed. Thought we'd have it solved by now. I think you may want to research into the transplanting a bit more. I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to do it after flower has begun. I'm not sure though because I never transplant. For what it's worth I don't believe that rootbinding is as big an issue as it is made out to be (especially here at RIU). I see people transplanting four or five times and I don't get it. My plants stay in the same pots from start to finish. I've grown 6 foot tall plants in 2 gallon pots, 4 footers in 1 gallons, and I'm working on some 3 footers in 1/2 gallon pots right now. And they've all had plenty fat buds. All it means is they dry out a bit quicker and need watering more often. 

And I think cloning is a great idea and the only way to truly get your money's worth from a seed you've bought. You just want to make sure the branch you cut is as healthy as can be. You don't want to try to root a stressed cutting. I've cloned plants that were 21 days in flower before. They take longer to root and grow a little funny at first but I think a healthy cutting from a plant two or three weeks into flower is better than a sickly cutting from a plant at 5 days flower. So I would let the mangled plant recover a bit before taking your cuts.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 22, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Looking good, Jerry. This droopage issue is rather curious indeed. Thought we'd have it solved by now. I think you may want to research into the transplanting a bit more. I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to do it after flower has begun. I'm not sure though because I never transplant. For what it's worth I don't believe that rootbinding is as big an issue as it is made out to be (especially here at RIU). I see people transplanting four or five times and I don't get it. My plants stay in the same pots from start to finish. I've grown 6 foot tall plants in 2 gallon pots, 4 footers in 1 gallons, and I'm working on some 3 footers in 1/2 gallon pots right now. And they've all had plenty fat buds. All it means is they dry out a bit quicker and need watering more often.
> 
> And I think cloning is a great idea and the only way to truly get your money's worth from a seed you've bought. You just want to make sure the branch you cut is as healthy as can be. You don't want to try to root a stressed cutting. I've cloned plants that were 21 days in flower before. They take longer to root and grow a little funny at first but I think a healthy cutting from a plant two or three weeks into flower is better than a sickly cutting from a plant at 5 days flower. So I would let the mangled plant recover a bit before taking your cuts.


Thanks mared, lots of good info. I haven't looked too far into transplanting, and under ideal circumstances I would have started in the larger pots...but my issue is space, and I can't spare any for males! I got as large pots as I could (5.5" x 5.5") and still fit 11 plants in there, but have 7" x 7" deep pots that I planned on moving the females into. I've not heard about transplanting during flower as a problem, though as I said I need to read more about it before I do anything. 

I've read that it is possible to revert back to vegging after flower has been initiated and sex determined. If I end up with fewer females than I'm hoping, say 3 or 4, I'd want to put them in veg a little longer and let them grow to produce more yeild per plant. This re-vegging thing may be bunk, and I'm certainly not going to do it without research, but would seem to indicate that I can determine sex, revert to veg, and then transplant, if transplanting during flower is too stressful for the girls.

Cloning, then, would be the alternative. I can clone the females and plant the cuttings directly into the larger 7x7 pots. I'll probably do it anyway, but if I absolutly cannot transplant what I have now that is an option.

The only reason I even mentioned it before was because I plan on topping the sickly one anyway, and I might as well try to grow the top. If it dies, so what, it was cut to help the rest of the plant anyway.

Regarding the watering...those fed this morning have all responded very well and show almost no sign of droop. They are just getting thirsty really quickly.

SEX--I must have been too masculine when I called the big one "the big one,"
as I'm fairly certain those little nubs have become BALLS  Judge for yourself...


















I think the last pic confirms it. I'd like some feedback though just to make sure...maybe they'll sprout little white nuthairs? Maybe? No?


----------



## Totallybaked (Mar 22, 2009)

Awesome job man on the plants, i have a question when you water what do you use? Do you mist it with a spray bottle?


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 22, 2009)

Yea I'm not 100% positive about the transplanting in flower thing. Just something I've heard before. And the reveg is kind of what I was talking about with the clones. As they revert from flower back to veg they grow a little funny. They will have wrinkly leaves for a little while until they go fully back to veg. The longer you let them go into flower before revegging and the longer they will grow funny before straightening themselves back out. Early male and female preflowers look very similar. If I HAD to guess right now I would say those pics look male but there's still hope. And about the cutting, you can get a sickly cutting to root no problem but there is a higher probability that the plant it grows into to be sickly as well. But I guess if the option is between no cutting at all or one that is a little ragged then I would go ahead and do it.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 22, 2009)

Totallybaked said:


> Awesome job man on the plants, i have a question when you water what do you use? Do you mist it with a spray bottle?


Thanks Totallybaked. Yes, I use two spray bottles. One is solely for spraying the leaves with water. The other has the spray piece removed, leaving only the screw top with a small hole, through which I apply a gentle stream of nutrients and water. I like to mist every day though, as I've been dealing with low moisture, though I want it low now that I'm starting to flower. I like to mist because it keeps the leaves free of dust, but I'm not a big fan of foliar feeding with nutrients as it leaves salt deposits that I don't like looking at.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 22, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Yea I'm not 100% positive about the transplanting in flower thing. Just something I've heard before. And the reveg is kind of what I was talking about with the clones. As they revert from flower back to veg they grow a little funny. They will have wrinkly leaves for a little while until they go fully back to veg. The longer you let them go into flower before revegging and the longer they will grow funny before straightening themselves back out. Early male and female preflowers look very similar. If I HAD to guess right now I would say those pics look male but there's still hope. And about the cutting, you can get a sickly cutting to root no problem but there is a higher probability that the plant it grows into to be sickly as well. But I guess if the option is between no cutting at all or one that is a little ragged then I would go ahead and do it.


Thanks for the constant flow of useful info mared! I'm not going to give up on it yet, but its days are numbered if some little hairs don't pop soon.

I'm probably not going to keep the remaining girls in flower if there is only 2 or 3 as I mentioned before, so I should be able to take some clones and hit the reveg for a while. Hopefully there's only a couple males and I can commit an entire area to vegging some clones...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 23, 2009)

Well, not much to report. Sex is still up in the air. Three potential males have been identified. I've been told to give them more time, as others have reported hairs developing from these little balls. So I'm waiting...

Otherwise, they are all getting big. Like, running out of space big. One got a little too close to the hps and burned some its young top leaves--they just grow so fast. Others are coming right along, some more squat than others, some responding better to nutrients than others. All want to be repotted into larger containers, but they need to show hairs first. Either way, I'm probably going to have to remove the shelf upon which they are resting as I cannot raise the hps any higher...I'll have to buy longer lengths of chain for the cfls too. It's going to look a lot different, but I'll need them farther away from the hps when I switch to bigger pots anyway. Here's some pics of the current status...

Here's the big one...with the little (hopefully not) balls...






The short one...healthy, just short.






This one got watered this morning...little droopy, but good






A couple in-situ...






Lots of leaves...






I was going to take more pics of the nodes, but they look about the same. Other than the three with balls, none have shown any sign of sex development at all. Hopefully this is a good sign...


----------



## Tatan (Mar 24, 2009)

Plants are looking fine... now the important thing is the sexing... have to keep our hopes up that there are a lot of felames !


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 24, 2009)

Quite a forest going there now. Is that an empty socket I see? Why no bulb in that one? LOL ya know I gotta keep you on your toes.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 24, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Quite a forest going there now. Is that an empty socket I see? Why no bulb in that one? LOL ya know I gotta keep you on your toes.


Ha ha I'm glad you noticed that. I ordered 12 bulbs on ebay--3 packs of 4 bulbs--and one of the bulbs arrived broken! I asked they guy for a $2 refund, and he refused, so paypal told me to send the whole thing across the country, where the seller would replace it. $14 shipping is not quite worth it for a $2 bulb.

So, I've got 11. I should prob go get another one (I'm wasting a whole socket!) but I actually have another splitter, so I should go get 2 more bulbs...that = 3200 more lumens I could be pumping in there!

An update is on the way in a hour or two...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 24, 2009)

So after replying to mared's post about the broken bulb, I ventured into the garden for the morning routine. Upon removal of the plants, I noticed one of my cfls HAS BURNT OUT! That's 2 of 12 that have been payed for and didn't fucking work. Oh well, won't be buying my bulbs from ebay anymore. I was going to get more anyway, now I'll just get a pack of 4 or 6 in case more start to crap out...

Thanks for letting me vent about that. All plants were removed today and thoroughly examined for signs of genitalia. The suspected male has done nothing to helps its cause: second sets of balls are clustering next to the first. There are balls at multiple nodes. I think this is pretty conclusive photographic evidence, but take a look for yourselves...



















I think there is little hope they are going to sprout hairs. There are two others with a similar condition to this fella...

There is good news though--it may be premature, but I think I can see hairs on 2 plants. One plant appears to have one hair that is trying to diverge into 2, the other has 2 that are about as thick as a human hair and hard to see, but I think are actually there! I didn't photograph these nodes directly, but here are pics of the plants I am describing...

This one has the barely visible hairs--I didn't even see them until I put the plant back under the lights and was about to walk away (sorry, a little blurry)






Ok, the other suspected female is on the left. The male discussed above is in the center, and the one on the right is slow--either that one or a similar one have grown one or two balls on various nodes, but not enough to determine male quite yet






That's it. I thought had more pics, but I guess not. They look droopy in the last pic because they needed water, which they received after I photographed them. I'll take more pics towards the end of their day time and we'll see how much they've straightened out, and maybe I can try to get a shot of some hairs!

How soon should I ditch the one I know is male? I started to give it nutrients today with the others, but decided that was a waste of money and I should just give it water. He is fucking HUGE and is taking up valuable space I don't have, so I want him out sooner than later. Also, what the hell should I do with it? Can I use it for anything?


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 24, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Plants are looking fine... now the important thing is the sexing... have to keep our hopes up that there are a lot of felames !


My hopes are still high (or is that just me?)

I anticipated around half being male. Any less than that and I will have gotten more than I hoped for, so we're doing good so far...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 24, 2009)

I couldn't wait. I went to go look at it and just snapped a couple shots...













The second shot is light-balanced. The petioles on this girl are also really fuzzy now...not sure if this is relevant, but wanted to share

I'm excited and relieved to finally have at least ONE confirmed female. I'm sure there will be more, but at least now I KNOW I've got one...


----------



## Tatan (Mar 24, 2009)

Oh yeah ! thats a girl !!! It´s a nice feeling when you know you got one.. hehe Congrats !

As far as the potential male, yeah.. looks like a male, but maybe give it 1 more day just to be sure ?

Anyway good going so far !


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 24, 2009)

Great news, my man. Most definitely a female there. I think the male is pretty much confirmed too. I would be tossing it from my garden if it were mine. Males produce less THC than the dirtiest schwag you've ever smoked so unless you plan on breeding then I would just trash it. And I don't know about you but I buy my CFLs locally. Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, whatever. Sometimes you have to go to more than one place to find 42 watters but they always have 26 watts at least. I don't think they're any more expensive than Ebay, especially when shipping comes into play.


----------



## Tatan (Mar 24, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Great news, my man. Most definitely a female there. I think the male is pretty much confirmed too. I would be tossing it from my garden if it were mine. Males produce less THC than the dirtiest schwag you've ever smoked so unless you plan on breeding then I would just trash it. And I don't know about you but I buy my CFLs locally. Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, whatever. Sometimes you have to go to more than one place to find 42 watters but they always have 26 watts at least. I don't think they're any more expensive than Ebay, especially when shipping comes into play.


 
Yeah... thast what I do... buy at local grocery store or hardare store... 42 watt 2700k for flower and 26 watt 6500k for veg...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 24, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Yeah... thast what I do... buy at local grocery store or hardare store... 42 watt 2700k for flower and 26 watt 6500k for veg...


Yeah, that's where I got my 6500's from, but I saw these online and they were cheap enough, so I ordered them. Live and learn.

As for the 42watt 2700k cfls...what brand do you use and where exactly do you get them from? I've only been able to find 3-way bulbs that are 42watt, and they are considerably more expensive than the 26watt variety.

Thanks for the info...I'm gonna find the 42's somewhere!


----------



## Tatan (Mar 24, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Yeah, that's where I got my 6500's from, but I saw these online and they were cheap enough, so I ordered them. Live and learn.
> 
> As for the 42watt 2700k cfls...what brand do you use and where exactly do you get them from? I've only been able to find 3-way bulbs that are 42watt, and they are considerably more expensive than the 26watt variety.
> 
> Thanks for the info...I'm gonna find the 42's somewhere!


 
At my grocery store they are about 13 dollars each... I bought a few there but then I found some on sale at an online bulb store and bought 8 of them for $6 each. I just went to look and only found for $11, but I´ll take another look.

http://www.bulbs.com/Compact_Fluorescent_Screw--in/40W_--_49W/Warm_White-/results.aspx?AffID=6&cm_mmc=google-_-light+bulbs-_-light+bulbs-_-light+bulbs+general

Here are some fo $8 
http://www.1000bulbs.com/42-Watt-Compact-Fluorescents/

And here is another for $7 something.
http://justfanlights.com/minitwist.aspx


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 25, 2009)

Today is shaping up to be a busy day. Three plants are beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt males, and have been removed from the space. There are 1-2 more potential males that will be checked on later, but I'm pretty sure they're dudes. At least I'm getting a pretty good idea what early male plants look like, whatever that's worth.

On to the good news--the two females are 100% confirmed, and looking mighty healthy! One was droopy this morning, but after watering a few hours ago she looks great! And now, pictures...

Here are two of the males. I'm going to use them to practice removing a plant from the container, so I know what to do when I move the girls in the next couple days and don't cause them any undue stress.






These three are all close-up pics of the three different confirmed male plants. Even though female preflowers can look like little male flowers, I don't think the female's separate from the node and dangle the way these male balls do...something to consider when trying to sex in the future


















This next one is a view of the large female who was watered yesterday. Still sort of droopy, but I think this is as straight as she is gonna get (compared with yesterdays pic).






I love these "up the skirt" shots!






Same shot minus the flash, no pun intended...






Here's the two confirmed females side by side. Drastically different looking plants, probably going to be different kinds of buds...






Here are the double-pots and the little warrior...I'm afraid one round pot (closest in pic below) may contain 1 male and 1 female, though I cannot yet confirm this. Should be interesting if that happens. Also, the bruised and battered little one is producing new growth finally, and looks like maybe will turn out female. Bummer, since this plant was once mighty and strong. But there may be hope yet, as I have a plan...






This last one is all the remaining plants in the space--lots more room now, so they can spread out nicely. There's a BIG problem...the two girls are already too big under most of the cfls and def can't fit directly under the hps. Every day is getting closer to crunch time (aka drop the shelf in a manner not yet realized time), but I need to wait until the rest show sex! Horizontal space improved, verticle space shrinking...






Given my lack of females and desire not to start all over from seed, these bitches are going to get cloned! There is a shelf above my current space that I used for germinating the seeds and sprouting the seedlings, but now is used for storage. I'm going to turn this into my veg space and run 18/6 or 20/4 and veg some clones while I flower the parents. I may elect to keep a mother plant, but we'll tackle that as it comes. Right now, I'm going to need to make the veg space LIGHT PROOF b/c it is directly above the flower space.

Once this is completed, I may top and re-veg the mangled plant, if indeed she proves to be female. Once she has caught up, its back in the flower chamber!

That's about as up to date as I can be. I'm going to rip the bong , probably a few times , and then to work on improving the garden.


----------



## growforgood904 (Mar 25, 2009)

looking good Jerry!! i obtained a bagseed yesterday. its germing. thats exciting not knowing wtf it is! but my others are doing well just put them under 400watt mh . check out the journal i got my room complete finally!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 25, 2009)

growforgood904 said:


> looking good Jerry!! i obtained a bagseed yesterday. its germing. thats exciting not knowing wtf it is! but my others are doing well just put them under 400watt mh . check out the journal i got my room complete finally!


Looks great man, glad you got everything up and running! I'll be tuning in...


----------



## Latin Weed Grower! (Mar 25, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Today is shaping up to be a busy day. Three plants are beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt males, and have been removed from the space. There are 1-2 more potential males that will be checked on later, but I'm pretty sure they're dudes. At least I'm getting a pretty good idea what early male plants look like, whatever that's worth.
> 
> On to the good news--the two females are 100% confirmed, and looking mighty healthy! One was droopy this morning, but after watering a few hours ago she looks great! And now, pictures...
> 
> ...


 
Howdy Grower!

I've looked at your babies and they look bushy and healthy. What I really enjoyed looking at and reading was to know that u used Fluors only, I'm on that too brother.....I just had a pass out this morning due to my PLASTIC TRAY I think, Bummer......Have u seen my journal? Have a look and tell me what u think...

Sorry man, but what are they or are they bag seeds?I think I read bag seeds, did I?

Man, waiting to see pictures when u clone.......

Regards,
Latin Weed Grower!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 25, 2009)

Latin Weed Grower! said:


> Howdy Grower!
> 
> I've looked at your babies and they look bushy and healthy. What I really enjoyed looking at and reading was to know that u used Fluors only, I'm on that too brother.....I just had a pass out this morning due to my PLASTIC TRAY I think, Bummer......Have u seen my journal? Have a look and tell me what u think...
> 
> ...


Thanks for stopping by Latin! While I have been using fluoro's rather extensively, I do have a 150w hps running for flower. The majority of my grow thus far, however, utilized the cfls and t5's exclusively.

With enough properly positioned light, cfls can do great things for vegging. While I don't doubt their effectiveness for producing killer buds if used correctly, I know what hps can do, and I want the biggest buds I can produce! I'm still using 10+ cfls, because they certainly won't hurt anything!

They are indeed bag seed. Came from some good shit though...

Where's the link to you're journal? I couldn't find it in your sig...maybe just post it in my thread?


----------



## Latin Weed Grower! (Mar 25, 2009)

Jerry,

sorry, here it goes: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/176131-daily-updated-4lowriders-2big-bang.html

have a look dude.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 25, 2009)

While working in the above space, one of my cfl clusters fell onto the TWO GIRLS! 1/4 of the one girl is lost, the top of the other and some side branches got burned, otherwise no major damage, but did it have to fall on my best ones? Ugh.

They should survive. Probably a couple less sites to clone now.

Latin your grow looks good, I'll be checking in it.

Back to work...a little dejected


----------



## Latin Weed Grower! (Mar 25, 2009)

Oh Gosh Jerry, sorry to hear that.

Just for the record, how are hey hanged?

Tchau....


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 25, 2009)

Latin Weed Grower! said:


> Oh Gosh Jerry, sorry to hear that.
> 
> Just for the record, how are hey hanged?
> 
> Tchau....


They are hung from thin chains suspended by hooks screwed into the bottom of the shelf above it. Some of the chains are secured to the fixtures by safety pins. I think it was a safety pin that failed. I'm going to the hardware store later to find an alternative I guess.

I was just thinking earlier today how devastating it would be if a light fell on the plants...foreshadowing I suppose...


----------



## growforgood904 (Mar 25, 2009)

Thats nuts Jerry!! u live and learn huh! bet or 2nd grow will be less problems! i am currently reading on ph and about to start the nute regimine. i am starting with liqud karma first. u ever heard of it ?


----------



## Tatan (Mar 25, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> While working in the above space, one of my cfl clusters fell onto the TWO GIRLS! 1/4 of the one girl is lost, the top of the other and some side branches got burned, otherwise no major damage, but did it have to fall on my best ones? Ugh.
> 
> They should survive. Probably a couple less sites to clone now.
> 
> ...


 
Im really sorry to hear that Jerry, I know its horible, and I know the feeling, my bagseed plant had 2 main stems when I put he to flower, same thing happened, now it has 1 main cola. Hang in there. I´m happy uou got more girls though, and thats right cloning is the way to go man !

Also keep in mind that your plants just showed sex... now the big stretch will begin... they will stretch a lot more before slowing down and putting all their energy into bud production.

And yeah CFL do work, thats what Im using, but hps has more power... Jery will be able to just put his Hps and use his CFl for extra lighting. 
One thing I like about CFL is that since they dont get too hot you get them really close to the plants and give them light from more angles


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 26, 2009)

growforgood904 said:


> Thats nuts Jerry!! u live and learn huh! bet or 2nd grow will be less problems! i am currently reading on ph and about to start the nute regimine. i am starting with liqud karma first. u ever heard of it ?


 I certainly learned...got myself some new chain yesterday! And no more safety pins!



Tatan said:


> Im really sorry to hear that Jerry, I know its horible, and I know the feeling, my bagseed plant had 2 main stems when I put he to flower, same thing happened, now it has 1 main cola. Hang in there. I´m happy uou got more girls though, and thats right cloning is the way to go man !
> 
> Also keep in mind that your plants just showed sex... now the big stretch will begin... they will stretch a lot more before slowing down and putting all their energy into bud production.
> 
> ...


Thanks Tatan. They'll be ok, just wish it hadn't happened. I'm ready for the big stretch though...I want them to get some meat on their bones before they really start to bud!

If you want to really see how effective cfl's can be when used exclusively, check out this guys thread--

https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-growing/170617-heres-what-cfls-can-do.html

Pretty killer!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 26, 2009)

So yesterday was a bit stressful. I had elaborate plans to restructure my whole set up, but a few snags were hit along the way. Suffice it to say I'm glad yesterday is over.

I began by removing the males from their pots and transferring them to their new home, a trash bag. Removal was actually quick, easy, and painless for the plant. I snapped a couple shots once removed to show the root structure. 

They were so damn healthy, I wish they weren't fucking males...






As I mentioned before, a fixture of 4 cfls fell on my two girls yesterday. One took the brunt of the damage, the other only lost one branch. When the lights fell, the weight broke some branches, causing the broken part to appear like a flattened worm that could no longer support the leaves. One branch on the thinner girl appeared to be producing new growth, and was likely going to be another bud site. Seeing as it was already damaged and going to die, I decided to try and clone it. Unfortunately, there was little stem for me to use, as I didn't have much choice where to cut it. I dipped it in some powdered rooting hormone and stuck it in the soil, maybe 1" deep.

Here she is...






Should I cut off those fan leaves near the base of the plant? It would create some extra stem I could bury to help get the roots going...

Once that situation was taken care of, I moved on to expanding the space. I didn't want to remove the shelf they were on completely, so I got some 2x4's and created an in-between shelf! Now I have much better distance from the hps (so they don't get burned!) and all 12 cfls are back up and running! The only draw back is the placement of the t5's...they're a little too high now, so I may move them later today.

Notice where the mylar ends and the white begins on the left wall...this is where the shelf used to be. I added at least 1.5 feet.






In this one you can see the distance from the top to the cfls and the hps (also note how empty it is looking in there...pulled another male today--4 total so far)






I had also planned on setting up my veg space yesterday...looks like this is going to have to wait. I bought parts to create two more 4-cfl fixtures (~$20 total), but am not quite ready to set it up yet. Soon though.

Note the empty space on top...






That's it. I didn't take any pics of the damaged plants this morning as I had already put them back in the space. I'll get some later though show the damage. Again, its not the end of the world, just a preventable tragedy.


----------



## growforgood904 (Mar 26, 2009)

damn thats a drag!! i will smoke some PPP for you! my favorite morning wake up!! and yes Jerry life goes on!!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 26, 2009)

growforgood904 said:


> damn thats a drag!! i will smoke some PPP for you! my favorite morning wake up!! and yes Jerry life goes on!!


What's PPP?

It's all good. I'm focusing on the good now, like being happy I expanded my space. Next step is to transplant, which should be a breeze now that I've done it a few times with the males. Still waiting on a couple to show sex though...

I have another issue however. I verified another male (5 total out of 11). Unfortunately, he shares a round pot with another plant, that I suspect is female (though she hasn't exposed herself yet). I can't remove him as the roots are undoubtedly entangled, so I was thinking of just slicing him off at the base of the stem and letting him die. That way, the roots of the other plant stay alive and I get the male out of the way!

Do you think this will work? What are some possible negative outcomes of this situation? 

Thanks for the input!


----------



## Tatan (Mar 26, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> What's PPP?
> 
> It's all good. I'm focusing on the good now, like being happy I expanded my space. Next step is to transplant, which should be a breeze now that I've done it a few times with the males. Still waiting on a couple to show sex though...
> 
> ...


 
Yes... I think it will work. I transplanted a plant so badly i lost half its roots and the roots stayed there... plant recovered nicely. I think somebody said on this thread that the oots would rot and poison the other plant, but i dont think this is likely.

As far as the other plant, yeah I would cut the base fan leaves. 

Wow Jerry you have a really nice setup after all that work, congrats man


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 26, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Yes... I think it will work. I transplanted a plant so badly i lost half its roots and the roots stayed there... plant recovered nicely. I think somebody said on this thread that the oots would rot and poison the other plant, but i dont think this is likely.
> 
> As far as the other plant, yeah I would cut the base fan leaves.
> 
> Wow Jerry you have a really nice setup after all that work, congrats man


Thanks man, I put a lot in it so I hope it works as planned. I'm just concerned about keeping the top light proof during the flower dark period...I'm sure I'll work it out though!

On a totally unrelated note, I recently found the perfect microscope at my parents house when I was out for a visit. I vaguely remember owning/seeing it as a child, and was shocked to find it still there and still working! I've been looking at the different herbs I've had recently and it is freaking amazing! You see pictures of it online, but when you look at what you're about to smoke, it just makes you feel good inside! Can't wait till I'm doing that with my own buds!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 26, 2009)

Also, the clone is not looking so hot. Probably not going to make it. No great loss really, but would have been cool if she stuck around.

Regarding slicing off the male, I'm going to post another thread and see if I can get some input from the community. I thought root rot might be a problem, but I'll find some more info before I do anything.


----------



## Tatan (Mar 26, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Thanks man, I put a lot in it so I hope it works as planned. I'm just concerned about keeping the top light proof during the flower dark period...I'm sure I'll work it out though!
> 
> On a totally unrelated note, I recently found the perfect microscope at my parents house when I was out for a visit. I vaguely remember owning/seeing it as a child, and was shocked to find it still there and still working! I've been looking at the different herbs I've had recently and it is freaking amazing! You see pictures of it online, but when you look at what you're about to smoke, it just makes you feel good inside! Can't wait till I'm doing that with my own buds!


 
Yeah man...actually im trying to get a little microscope for the same reason


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 26, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Yeah man...actually im trying to get a little microscope for the same reason


Mine is from RadioShack, but keep in mind it's old. It says "30x illuminated microscope and 8x magnifier" and it is plenty strong to see the trichs up close and personal!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 26, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Mine is from RadioShack, but keep in mind it's old. It says "30x illuminated microscope and 8x magnifier" and it is plenty strong to see the trichs up close and personal!


Another kind of off topic thought I had moments ago...why not just sprout some more bag seeds? I've got others I collected from some less-than-awesome-but-still-had potential weed, and my veg room is going unused until I'm ready to take some clones, so why not throw a handful in and see what takes? I'd like to get some good seeds online, but I need somewhere to send them to that isn't my house...


----------



## Tatan (Mar 26, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Another kind of off topic thought I had moments ago...why not just sprout some more bag seeds? I've got others I collected from some less-than-awesome-but-still-had potential weed, and my veg room is going unused until I'm ready to take some clones, so why not throw a handful in and see what takes? I'd like to get some good seeds online, but I need somewhere to send them to that isn't my house...


Yeah why not... If the space is going to waste...
Btw... seed companies ship in a very discreet manner...when i got mine there is no way i would have been able to find them if i didnt know where to look.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 26, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Yeah why not... If the space is going to waste...
> Btw... seed companies ship in a very discreet manner...when i got mine there is no way i would have been able to find them if i didnt know where to look.


Yeah, I just don't want to give them my address and credit card info, ya know? Not so much because the seed company will blow my cover, but because the federales may be observing who is buying these things and where they are going...


----------



## growforgood904 (Mar 26, 2009)

that is a big worry.. i sent money order .. and sent them to another house far away.. it took 2 weeks, but if u dont have a good spot i would wait and ask a close riend.. maybe ur sitter? dont know the specifics tho..


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 26, 2009)

growforgood904 said:


> that is a big worry.. i sent money order .. and sent them to another house far away.. it took 2 weeks, but if u dont have a good spot i would wait and ask a close riend.. maybe ur sitter? dont know the specifics tho..


Right, I always forget you can do money order. My buddy told me that the other day. I still need somewhere to ship them though...I'll work on it and let you guys know!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 27, 2009)

So not too much to report this morning. Fed a couple girls this morning some big bloom, tiger bloom, a drop of superthrive and for the first time some molasses. I've been wanting to use it, but haven't had the opportunity yet. I simply poured ~2 tablespoons into my 1L feeding bottle and administered with the rest of their nutes. It may be a little early and unnecessary to add molasses, but I've got to start somewhere. I want them to get used to the extra carbohydrates now so not to shock them later.

Still waiting on sex from 2 or 3. At least one more male has been confirmed, and he resides in a round pot with what I think is a female.

After starting a new thread yesterday, I got some great info regarding how to deal with this situation. I'm going to slice the main stem about 3/4 of the way down, removing everything above that point. I will leave one or two sets of fan leaves to keep the bottom 1/4 of the stem alive, thereby preventing any risk of root rot! Genius!

DIY AC Update...
While moving my shelf down, I had to remove the ac unit I built. Upon removal I noticed the bottom started to develop some pink looking mold/mildew. Immediately it was removed and has not yet been replaced. I've been waiting to see if its necessary to get a new one (or just clean the old one I guess, but they're styrofoam, so it's only $5 to replace). The temp has started to climb in the last couple days however, likely because the outside temperature is also starting to climb. I may need to bring back the a/c unit, but I don't want to unless I get a high CFM fan that will move some serious cold air. The ones I've taken from various cpu's all pull too little air for it to make a difference, so I need to get a 100cfm+ one online and really blast some cold air! In the meantime, I've got a couple fans set up that hold the temp around 84-85.

I'm also thinking about adding some more co2 mixtures (yeast+sugar+water) now that I have more room (and less plants...)

All my best growing plants to this point have been male. All of them were very highly developed with many new bud sites, but grew balls instead of flowers. While this is somewhat depressing, it is nice to know I am capable of growing some quality plants with the setup I have. While I fear my results from this attempt will be 2-4 females max, I'm going to do this again, and I'm going to get some feminized seeds! And, I'm planning on taking clones, so this is only the beginning for me...

Anyway, here are a couple pics...

Here's the mangled one, finally starting to show new signs of growth






Here's the skinny girl. Just got watered this morning, so recovering from her too dry droopage






Here's the bigger girl. I tried to show the side with the most damage from the light. I use this space to hang the 65w cfl right next to the plant and get some light to the newly exposed undergrowth.






And one of the two girls together.






That's it for now. More later...


----------



## nasd90 (Mar 27, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> So not too much to report this morning. Fed a couple girls this morning some big bloom, tiger bloom, a drop of superthrive and for the first time some molasses. I've been wanting to use it, but haven't had the opportunity yet. I simply poured ~2 tablespoons into my 1L feeding bottle and administered with the rest of their nutes. It may be a little early and unnecessary to add molasses, but I've got to start somewhere. I want them to get used to the extra carbohydrates now so not to shock them later.
> 
> Still waiting on sex from 2 or 3. At least one more male has been confirmed, and he resides in a round pot with what I think is a female.
> 
> ...





Lookin' Good. Just saw this grow. Peace.


----------



## Latin Weed Grower! (Mar 27, 2009)

Howdy Jerry!

Awesome job. Those Fluors sometimes are a bloody pain in the ass, don't u think? I'm thinking about purchasing a MH and also a HPS for later.....cant wait...

Have a nice day mate,


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 27, 2009)

nasd90 said:


> Lookin' Good. Just saw this grow. Peace.


Thanks for stopping by nasd. Feel free to share your thoughts on here anytime!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 27, 2009)

Latin Weed Grower! said:


> Howdy Jerry!
> 
> Awesome job. Those Fluors sometimes are a bloody pain in the ass, don't u think? I'm thinking about purchasing a MH and also a HPS for later.....cant wait...
> 
> Have a nice day mate,


The fluoros are actually quite nice to work with, provided you don't drop them on your plants like I did. Less heat, energy, space, etc etc etc. But...

If you've got the space and funds, definitely get yourself as high a wattage hps you can! While a metal halide is all beneficial for vegging, enough well-positioned fluoros can produce high quality vegetative growth. For flower, high pressure sodium lights emit more/better light than fluoros, and will ensure dense, sparkley nugs! But use some 2700k cfls and t5's too!

So IMO, get an hps system and then if you want get a metal halide conversion bulb that works in your hps system.

Having said that, my fluoros and 150w hps should do me just fine...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 27, 2009)

After returning from class I decided it was *high* time I dealt with the next suspected male. This character was a little different than the rest, in that he only sprouted balls on half of the stem (i.e. 2 initial balls per node vs. 4) and only at one node. The balls were well developed, and appeared very similar to the males I threw out already. I initially though this was possibly a hermaphrodite, but decided I wasn't going to keep it even if it was. I don't need any pollen in my space. So out the door he went.

Here's a pic of the situation now. I haven't confirmed the other plant in the pot is a female, but her leaf structure is similar to one of the other known girls. She may have been getting a little resource starved as the male started to get bigger, but that shouldn't be a problem now!






Here's a shot of the skinny female who was a little droopy this morning. After a couple hours she has perked up some and still straightening out. I am now watering both girls every other day, and even that might not be enough as they get pretty droopy by the night before their scheduled feeding.






So, things have stabilized for the moment. The temp is climbing away, so I may have to take more action, starting with cranking up the fans...

Its looks so empty in there now. I'm starting to question if I even _need_ all the cfls going right now because the numbers are dwindling...I'm at 5 males and 6 females right now, with one more suspected to be male. That would make the ratio ~55% male 45% female, which is what I realistically expected going in (but was holding out hope for more girls...)

So a few males here, a setback there, and things are coming along just fine. I'm still positive about the whole thing, and I'm still learning a TON of useful information. But, most importantly, I'm having fun doing it!


----------



## Tatan (Mar 27, 2009)

Heya Jerry,

About your temps.. you said they are getting to 84-85. My take would be to see how the plants react to the temperatures, some of these plants in the wild thrive under pretty high temps. 


Also about needing less CFL... your plant population went down due to the males, so you could turn some off now, but the thing is that your grow is bagseed, just like 2 of my plants, so we dont really know how much our plants are going to stretch. My last plant has gone from 9 inches when i put her in flower to 32, so ive added bulbs around it and it is still growing. So... wait and see what happens, and like you said.. you have the clones in case you have extra space. 

The important thing is that you hit it on the nail, now you know that you can get beautiful plants with your setup... and I´m sure that they are going to get nicer as the buds start to develop


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 27, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Heya Jerry,
> 
> About your temps.. you said they are getting to 84-85. My take would be to see how the plants react to the temperatures, some of these plants in the wild thrive under pretty high temps.
> 
> ...


Good point about the temp--I'm also using CO2 (albeit not that much at the moment) which can allow for continued growth at higher temps. I'm OK with 85, but it crept up to 89 at one point while I was away...I just need the ac back up and running in some capacity and I think it will make a big difference. The weather will not be helping anytime soon either (which is ok, i'm sick of winter anyway!)

I only say that about removing some cfls because a couple appear to be hanging over nothing. While they are adding to the overall amount of light in the space, the benefit they provide is less than the cost (heat, electricity, wear/tear on the bulb). The problem with removing one is it throws the balance of my fixture off, forcing me to re-position, which is a pain. I guess I could unscrew them until they go off leave them in the fixture...I just wish I had more plants!

Otherwise, they look mighty healthy this evening. Can't wait for my little buds to start forming!

Oh, and on the seed front--I've got a friend from cali who has friends in mendiceno (sp?) that she thinks can send out some quality seeds! This would be freaking fantastic, and maybe even free b/c they like her! Should know more by the end of the weekend.

Now for a Friday night on the town...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 28, 2009)

Plants are alive. It's still getting hot in there, so I'm gonna have to fix that situation sometime today. I'm too hungover to post pics right now. I'll do it later.

Ouch, my head...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 28, 2009)

Now that I've recovered I can post a better update. First and foremost, the temperature is getting out of control. It got to 92 today! My immediate solution was to add a second large fan, which did nothing to help the temperature. Bummer.

Then I decided the only real solution was to turn off either some cfls or the hps (and the hps sure as hell isn't going off). I unplugged the cfls, and within a few minutes the temp had dropped to 84! While this is encouraging, all the cfls were off, so I'm losing a large percentage of my lumens. Didn't have the strength or patience earlier today to make a new AC unit, and the lights will be off soon, so I'll leave that task for tomorrow.

I've been thinking about switching my light/dark times...lights would go on at 6pm and turn off at 6am. Problem: the space is in my bathroom, which I use frequently. It is also not _totally_ light proof--the only light coming in would be through the door, which I leave slightly ajar for my cat so he can come in and use his litterbox (its his bathroom too). I have a piece of shiny metal coated bubble wrap insulation acting as a make-shift door to the grow space, which could be closed during the day to further limit the light that could get in...so it seems like this is a plausible situation.

While it won't solve the temperature problem, it will certainly help a few degrees, which is really all I need anyway.

If I did elect to switch the light cycle, I would have to leave the lights off for 24 hours, from 6pm to 6pm, and then resume 12/12.

Something for me to consider over the next few WARM days we conintue to have...

Regarding sex...another male lost his life today. Again, very hearty and healthy looking. Sucks I have to keep chopping them down! That's 5 females remaing out of 11 total, right on with my estimate (and the laws of probability...). The male killed today was growing in the other round pot...so now each one contained a male. I cut him down the same way I did the other one--leaving the stem alive enough to prevent root rot.

Any day now I'm going to transplant the remaining girls into the much larger pots. I think I will really start to see some growth then.

Here's the short one--doing a good job of reviving itself from its near-death experience.






Here are the two round pots, each with one plant now.






Here's the fat girl--a little droopy, but just watered, so she should be picking up by the end of today.






And finally, the other big girl.






That's all for today. We'll see what fun adventures tomorrow has in store for the girls..


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 28, 2009)

Hey Jerry, sorry the video card in my laptop literally melted so I had to buy a whole new computer. Gateway sucks. For your lighting situation I would make a simple flap door out of panda plastic. That's the brand name for the light proof plastic that is white on one side and black on the other. You should be able to find it at any dro store. But yea I would just attach one side to the door frame and use little snap fasteners or velcro along the other side and top to secure to the door frame. So then you could just snap or velcro it closed during the lights off time.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 28, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Hey Jerry, sorry the video card in my laptop literally melted so I had to buy a whole new computer. Gateway sucks. For your lighting situation I would make a simple flap door out of panda plastic. That's the brand name for the light proof plastic that is white on one side and black on the other. You should be able to find it at any dro store. But yea I would just attach one side to the door frame and use little snap fasteners or velcro along the other side and top to secure to the door frame. So then you could just snap or velcro it closed during the lights off time.


Sorry about your cpu--yikes!

Panda plastic eh? I'll look into it...I've def seen it around in other people's grows. Sounds like that stuff and some velcro is exactly what I need!

Update: Plants are sleeping. I broke my favorite little jar . It's raining...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 29, 2009)

So the temp got all the way to 92 THIS MORNING--It's in the 60's outside...

I unplugged them about 1/2 hour ago, and the temp is down to 83. Nine whole degrees from cfls? Who says they don't produce heat!

I'm going to clean out the foam cooler and try it all again. I found a website selling something similar to the DIY AC--you remove the lid of your existing standard plastic cooler, and place this tray thing on top that has a fan built in. 39.95...ha

Update/pics coming later


----------



## Tatan (Mar 29, 2009)

Ouch thats a lot of heat buildup...


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 29, 2009)

Jerry, how exactly are your fans setup again? I would try using every fan you have at the top of the grow space to blow hot air out. Just leave an open space for intake air. It can be drawn in passively without a fan. Just work on removing all hot air. If you can exchange enough air with a cooler area those temps will come down nicely.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 29, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Jerry, how exactly are your fans setup again? I would try using every fan you have at the top of the grow space to blow hot air out. Just leave an open space for intake air. It can be drawn in passively without a fan. Just work on removing all hot air. If you can exchange enough air with a cooler area those temps will come down nicely.


Well, here's situation. I have one fan 12" oscillating fan (not oscillating though) sitting on my toilet and blowing INTO the space. Another 12" fan, taller, is positioned at the door to the bathroom, drawing the cooler air from the rest of the house into the bathroom. I just got a new $3 styrofoam cooler to reconstruct my ac unit, which has two 3" ducts leading from beneath the space into the grow room: one duct has only one 80mm 39cfm cpu fan acting as an inline, and the other has a 3" personal fan as intake with a 80mm cpu fan inline to help move the air. While I could feel some cooler air coming out, the fans I'm using are shitty. I need a couple high cfms to really blast the cold air in.

So, my biggest deficiency in this situation is the lack of any true exhaust. It was all doing fine until it started to get so damn hot outside (75 today).

I would have taken a couple photos to help explain, but the lights have already gone off for the day. I'll do it tomorrow morning.

Despite the high temps, the plants appear no worse for the wear. The skinny one grew ~1inch today, while the stout one is filling out nicely. I definitely need to move all the lights up before they come on again tomorrow or I will have some singed tops for sure (you can see how close the skinny one came in the following pics).

On an unrelated note, I purchased a brita faucet filter today for $20 (with $10 mail in rebate, so really one $10) because buying distilled water all the time sucks, especially when they are $1 each. The filter will process 100 gallons before replacement is needed. I kept 8 1-gallon jugs and filled them all today. Now I've got tons of water at my fingertips!

So that's a lot of words...lets see some pictures! (I took these a few miinutes ago, just before the lights went off for the evening.

Here's the skinny girl and a smaller one back in the corner. I thought you could see the lights a little better in the picture, but take my word when I say she was getting very close...






Here's the one in the back. Sex is still undetermined, though the male that shared the pot has since been eliminated. I'm planning on topping using uncle ben's guidelines to try and get 4 cola's out of this one if she turns out to be a she.






Here's the other big female, the stout one. Not a great pic because she was behind the other one and I didn't want to move them just for the pic. The top is looking nice...just wish I didn't drop a fucking light on her.






Here's the one I overwatered 3 weeks ago. New growth is coming on strong now...I'm expecting big things for this one once she gets back on track. Still not certain of the sex, however, but no balls yet!






That's it. Temp is again the issue of the day. We'll see what happens tomorrow.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 30, 2009)

Thought I would update on the temperature briefly before I get down to business...the low last night was prob 44 outside, so that helped out tremendously. Has been steady at 75 all morning with all lights on. I think the problem the last few days was the low temperature for the day was in the upper 50s/low 60s so it never really got a chance to cool down. I monitor the temp as many times a day as I can now, so even if does start to creep back up I can take appropriate measure (cutting off lights...).

As for today, I'm going to transplant into the larger pots. I should be able to remove the girls easily and painlessly from their current pots given all my practice removing the males.

The skinny girl is so freaking tall its unbelievable. ~16.5" and going up as we speak...

It's comforting to know this is a normal stretch, because I can't get this chick any closer to the lights!

Better update w/ pics on the way...for now its time to work.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 30, 2009)

Lots to report from the last few hours, so lets get started.

The bad news first. The two remaining plants in the round pots are BOTH males. I hadn't really checked in a few days, and one turned out to be farther along than I thought...whoops. Not far enough to release any pollen or anything.

Here they are...fucking bastards












Balls!






That leaves me with 3 females out of 11 
plants. Not the ratio I was hoping for, but it allowed me to make some changes to the space. I decided to remove an entire fixture of 4 cfls. They no longer had anyone beneath them to illuminate, so I'll save their electricity and HEAT. I also partially unscrewed another 2 bulbs that were facing too far away from the action. That leaves me with only 4 of the 23w cfls in use. Additionally, I am running the 150w hps, 1 65w cfl and 2 2' 24w t5ho. That's 355 total watts producing 31,500 lumens. A far cry from what it once was, but sufficient for so few plants (or so I think).

The remaining three were finally transplanted into their large 7" square pots. I hoped to have more at this stage, but I'll take what I can get. I took some pics of the transplanting process to help explain my methodology.

I did a dry transfer today. I've read you can do it wet or dry, but dry seemed easiest to me. I misted the top of the soil before removing to keep it together a little better near the surface. To remove the plant, I bend each side of the smaller pot away from the soil, one side at a time. Then I grasped at the base of the stem and lightly pull until it slides. Once it starts to slide it comes out very easily.

Before I start removing the plant from the pot, I set up the larger pot into which the plant is going. I start by placing a layer of 50% perlite/50% ocean forest on the bottom of the pot. Then I place an empty pot (that is the same size as the one from which the plant is coming) on top of the soil, and fill around the edges. This is why I needed pictures...

The black pot in the center is the size of the old pot...once it gets to this stage, I give it a little tap against the ground to help the soil settle around the central pot, making sure to fill to the brim after settling.






I then remove the central pot, leaving the perfect size cavity into which the plant is placed.






Here's the roots of the wider girl before going in the bigger pot.






Then more soil is added to fill the cracks and top off the pot.






I then water the pot thoroughly using only filtered tap water and 1/4 teaspoon (1ml) of superthrive. 

So two plants and a lot fewer lights later, here's how the room looks...












Here are the two tops...starting to do weird stuff...good weird stuff...












That's it. The temp is holding now at 76 with one fan positioned on the other side of the room.

I think I'm going to crack some other bag seeds I've got and grow them 12/12 all the way through. I've heard you can harvest ~1oz per plant in 9-11 weeks...


----------



## growforgood904 (Mar 30, 2009)

lean something new everyday. i will deff use that idea when transplanting.

hey Jerry. is it ok ot go from dixie dup to the 3gal containers we both have.. or should i go a bit smaller?


----------



## Tatan (Mar 30, 2009)

Im sorry to hear about all those males ... 3 out of 11 i females is tough.

But there are some news... those 3 plants are looking really nice, you could see how healthy they are from the root mass, and they are going to grow a lot in the next few weeks.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 31, 2009)

growforgood904 said:


> lean something new everyday. i will deff use that idea when transplanting.
> 
> hey Jerry. is it ok ot go from dixie dup to the 3gal containers we both have.. or should i go a bit smaller?


Going straight to the 3 gal containers is preferable, because the fewer transplants you make the less stress...for future reference (and I wish I had done this when I started) you can start in as large a container as you have available. So yeah, go right into the big ones (I love those pots by the way...they sure are heavy though when full of wet soil!).



Tatan said:


> Im sorry to hear about all those males ... 3 out of 11 i females is tough.
> 
> But there are some news... those 3 plants are looking really nice, you could see how healthy they are from the root mass, and they are going to grow a lot in the next few weeks.


3 of 11 females does kinda suck balls...I really thought those other 2 were going to be female too...

Oh well, what can you do right? I'm happy to have a couple, and now they will get all the space and light they need.

The big girl got too zealous overnight and grew into one cfl this morning...doh...singed the tip a little, but minor damage compared to what I've done to her already (I will never forgive myself for allowing a light to fall...)

I was pretty happy seeing the root mass, but I figured it was getting pretty tight in there with the amount of water they were starting to consume. I'm going to have to drop the shelf AGAIN I think--those pots add an extra 6 inches, and they just keep on growing! Sucks, because now I have to find an alternative spot for my cooler a/c unit...damn...I've got a week or so until then I think


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Mar 31, 2009)

Not much that I didn't already say. Plants responded well to transplant. Temps are doing fine.

I decided to germinate some more seeds. I'm going to grow them 12/12 all the way from seed. I figure I can grow 6, maybe 9 more plants in the square black pots I used until transplant yesterday, and with my propensity toward growing male plants, I chose to germinate 17 seeds. So, another experiment. They will grow in the same room as the others, I'll just add a shelf for them to be closer to the light. I've read people average ~1oz per plant using this technique...

Anyway, here are some pics.






























That's all for now.


----------



## Latin Weed Grower! (Mar 31, 2009)

Howdy Jerry Garcia!

Uauu.....really going for it man, but if I may say that somedays we hope they would go faster or whatever and then we take some steps that we may regret in the future for merely not having ebough room if they come all nicely, imagine.......Keep a positive vibration to FEMALES ONLY........Good Luck man.......I'm following.....


----------



## Evil Buddies (Mar 31, 2009)

I was wondering whats the PH balance of your soil and what water are u giving the plants the leaves are looking a bit droopy. This because the ph balance of the soil might be a bit low or high.


----------



## Evil Buddies (Mar 31, 2009)

Evil Buddies said:


> I was wondering whats the PH balance of your soil and what water are u giving the plants the leaves are looking a bit droopy. This because the ph balance of the soil might be a bit low or high.


Ohh yeah and good luck with ur grow hope it turns out great


----------



## Tatan (Mar 31, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Going straight to the 3 gal containers is preferable, because the fewer transplants you make the less stress...for future reference (and I wish I had done this when I started) you can start in as large a container as you have available. So yeah, go right into the big ones (I love those pots by the way...they sure are heavy though when full of wet soil!).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Jerry, don´t feel too bad about dropping that light back then. I did the same, it took out half my bagseed plant im going to harvest soon.

I read somewhere that letting your plants "outgrow" their pots a little bit is a good thing, since it ensures a tight root mas for flowering that will expand and fully utilize the soil. How accurate this is .... im not sure, but anyway those roots looked great.

Also think its a great idea that you are going t 12/12 with those new seeds from the start, sure the plants wont be as big, but if you got the extra space why not use it... and yeah there is a thread here about somebody going 12/12 from start to finish trying to get 1 oz per plant...


----------



## mared juwan (Mar 31, 2009)

I don't know about this 12/12 from seed thing. To be honest I would like to see Jerry try it to see what happens but I would never do it myself. Even at 12/12 it will take at least two weeks for the plants to become sexually mature and start flowering. So all that time they would have been in veg mode either way but by doing 12/12 you are cheating them out of 6 hours of light per day they really need. So yea I thought the timing of flower for your first plants is about as early as I would do it. But like I said, don't let me stop you. I want to see what happens. My prediction is the plants won't be any shorter but rather more stringy and stretched out.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 1, 2009)

Evil Buddies said:


> I was wondering whats the PH balance of your soil and what water are u giving the plants the leaves are looking a bit droopy. This because the ph balance of the soil might be a bit low or high.


 Thanks for coming by evil buddies!

The soil ph had been around 6.5 for the first month or so, and then I returned the ph meter I was using because it never seemed to change at all (it was around 6.5 before even inserting into the soil). I recently got a liquid ph test, which I plan on using for runof after watering (and for the water I am now administering--I had been using distilled water, but purchased a brita filter and bottle that water because its cheaper). I should really try to dial in the ph a little more accurately, especially because I haven't done much in the way of monitoring it after I switched to tiger bloom nutes, which foxfarm says can lower ph. Any suggestions/comments are always welcome! Thanks again for checking out my grow!



Tatan said:


> Jerry, don´t feel too bad about dropping that light back then. I did the same, it took out half my bagseed plant im going to harvest soon.
> 
> I read somewhere that letting your plants "outgrow" their pots a little bit is a good thing, since it ensures a tight root mas for flowering that will expand and fully utilize the soil. How accurate this is .... im not sure, but anyway those roots looked great.
> 
> Also think its a great idea that you are going t 12/12 with those new seeds from the start, sure the plants wont be as big, but if you got the extra space why not use it... and yeah there is a thread here about somebody going 12/12 from start to finish trying to get 1 oz per plant...





mared juwan said:


> I don't know about this 12/12 from seed thing. To be honest I would like to see Jerry try it to see what happens but I would never do it myself. Even at 12/12 it will take at least two weeks for the plants to become sexually mature and start flowering. So all that time they would have been in veg mode either way but by doing 12/12 you are cheating them out of 6 hours of light per day they really need. So yea I thought the timing of flower for your first plants is about as early as I would do it. But like I said, don't let me stop you. I want to see what happens. My prediction is the plants won't be any shorter but rather more stringy and stretched out.


Some good points all around. Check out these two links of other 12/12 from seed grows...

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/175581-12-12-seed-club-show.html

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/151253-12-12-seed-harvest-1-a.html

These show some pretty promising results. However, as mared said, they are stringy and they are pretty stretched out. But here is why I'm thinking of trying it on my grow--I can. I've got some extra seeds, I've got some extra space in my flower room, and I like experimenting with things for the experience.

Now, mared, you are totally right they will be deprived of 6 hours of crucial light from the get go--but my thinking is it will make them show sex a little more quickly. I am germinating something like 19 seeds right now, which is way more than I know what to do with, but I started with 11 last time and finished with 3. If I start with 19 and get 19 females, I'll have to make more room I guess. But I don't see that happening.

I will probably take half of the seeds I'm germinating and put them in the 12/12 from the get-go. I've all but completed the veg chamber above the flower, and will put the remaining seeds up there to grow normally.

My space is just really limited, and I'm trying to figure out how to effectively get the most plants and the most yeild with what I've got. I figure the 12/12 space is going to waste at the moment, so why not experiment and a have a little fun? If they turn out spindly and shitty, well I didn't waste much on them in the first place (except soil and a bit of nutes...), so its all good! And if they turn out good...bonus!

Thanks to everyone checking out my journal, and especially those who comment! I highly value any/all input! Keep it coming!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 1, 2009)

Today marks the completion of week two of flower, ~7 weeks since germination. Crazy how the time has flown by. The girls are looking good. The tall one has lots of bud sites along the main stem, and few lower ones as well. The wide girl is developing many sites as well, though a little slower than the tall one. After having its middle layer of foliage removed 2 weeks ago, the short girl (finally _confirmed _a girl, though I knew already) is starting to show multiple bud sites (~9) at the lower levels. I've raised the hps probably twice in the last 36 hours because the tall one is 21" as of 11:30 this morning. I turned on two more cfls that are now over the short girl, and the temp has been holding at ~83.

The humidity, which I thought was a problem before, seems to hover around 39%, which should be ideal going forward with bud formation. I'm concerned it might get a bit more humid at night than I want, as it has done that in the past, so I may need to find a way to bring it down. But, for right now, I think it's doing good.

I do have a new concern, though, and it could be disastrous...the big girl may have gone HERMIE! NOOOOOOO!

While it may be a little premature to tell, there are two dangly balls hanging from two lower/middle nodes. It is possible they will sprout hairs, but I've seen a lot of balls recently, ane it looks pretty comparable. I'm not sure what caused it--maybe stress from dropping the light? It's right in the area where it happened. The lower sections of all the plants have been getting excellent light coverage from the the 65w cfl that is on a bendy thing. I stick it in the now-exposed section of the stem where the light fell, trying to promote undergrowth/lower bud development, and I think it works pretty well. The t5's are also coming in handy now, as the tops are just starting to stretch past them. The 26w cfls on the other side are also doing a nice job getting the middle sections of all plants. There is light shining in just about ever crevice I can find...and yet I know I can fit more. Later for that thought.

So, I may have a hermie. I'm going to give it until tomorrow to sprout hairs, and then I'm snipping them off. It's going to be tough, but I'm going to have to be vigilant to make sure none of the balls burst open and pollenate the other bitches. 

I just checked the ph of the filtered tap water and its 7.6, which is a little high I think. I'll have to get some distilled water and check the ph of that. And we'll see what happens with the runoff ph after I water next. Maybe I'll do an experiment to try and figure it out before I feed them...

Anyway, enough rambling, here are the pics!

The "Tall" girl. Not sure why those middle nodes stretched like that, she was never that far away from the light. The ruler blocks it in this shot, but the lower nodes are much tighter spaced. She's looking good though.






Here's one of her top






The "Wide" girl. Always lookin a little droopy...wonder if its from the ph? I'll be working on that situation






Here's the side where the light fell. Lots of little bud sites going on down there.






Here are what I'm presuming to be balls.






Looks pretty ballish to me (ignore that little white hair, it's from the cat)






One side of the "Short" girl, with lots of lower bud sites forming.






Here's the other side






And some close ups of the tops...I think is shorty






I think this is the Wide girl






This one must be the tall girl then...






So, the rewarding part of the adventure finally begins! I'm trying to get as much light to every bud site that I can, and I'll probably construct some sort of stand to affix some cfls. We'll see what happens.

Haven't checked the seeds yet...some have probably already cracked, but I'm going to wait just for fun.

I had a thought about the 12/12 from seed girls...why not just top them above the second node to make 4 main colas? Might keep them a little shorter? Just a thought.

Here's how the girls now while in their setup. You can see the many levels of light described above--hps on top, t5's on the left near the tops, 26w cfls in the middle, and the 65w big guy on the bottom. Good coverage so far I think. But, could be better, so I'll try to do that.



















There you have it. Feedback is always welcome!


----------



## Tatan (Apr 1, 2009)

I had the same problem with my mystery plant saw about 2 balls in the bottom of a stem... I just plucked them.

Plants are looking nice.

Also, I don´t know but I imagine that if you top a plant that is in flower, it might be very small when it stops stretching, dont know for sure though.


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 1, 2009)

Oh no! The dreaded hermie! I think I told you about the experience I had with my first grow. Maybe that was someone else I told... Anyway I was super excited because apparently I had 8 out of 10 plants from seed turn out female. One by one those phuckers went hermie until I was left with only two true females. It was horrible. And I was confident that I hadn't stressed them bad at all. Some strains have a lot stronger tendency to herm. Sometimes you don't have to do anything wrong for it to happen escpecially with bagseed. But you're definitely looking at balls in those pics. The worst thing about hermies is deciding whether or not to kill them. Males are an easy decision. But hermies will provide you with smokeable bud and also some seeds (which doesn't matter as much with bagseed). However, they will also pollinate all your females. You can try to remove pollen sacs as you see them but the reason sensimilia (non-pollinated female bud) is such superior smoke is because the plant produces massive amounts of resin and THC as it "cries out" for pollen. The flowering females want pollen so bad they will look for any excuse to find it. This includes full females producing bannanas or single pollen sacs very late in flower (very common even with the best quality genetics). So what I'm saying is best of luck but I think pollination is inevitable. When buds build on top of each other you won't want to go pulling them apart to inspect for pollen sacs. If you keep it to a minimum that is okay but every seed produced takes away from the quality and quantity of bud. On the other hand, if you decide to kill hermie plants and one by one your plants go herm you won't have any left. It sucks I know. What I would do is continue with the removal of any male parts until you really know how solid your females are (maybe another week). If you have the two others as solid fems I would consider separating or killing the herm.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks mared, though that is some shitty news. I thought if I was diligent with the sacks I could remove them all, but I didn't consider they might be growing inside the buds! This is quite a predicament, because I REALLY don't want pollen, but at the same time I really want some bud to smoke! Maybe I'll try to find someone else to finish off the plant so I can keep the other girls pollen-free.

I'm pretty sure the tall girl isn't going to have any problems, but the short one certainly got stressed, so I wouldn't be shocked...ugh, this sucks. Well, I'm going to pluck some balls right now and just monitor the situation...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 2, 2009)

Tatan said:


> I had the same problem with my mystery plant saw about 2 balls in the bottom of a stem... I just plucked them.
> 
> Plants are looking nice.
> 
> Also, I don´t know but I imagine that if you top a plant that is in flower, it might be very small when it stops stretching, dont know for sure though.


Be careful with that mystery hermie...read mared's post about it above^^^, you don't want pollen fucking up those other girls!

I was going to top according to uncle ben's guidelines, and I figured if it was only 5-6 nodes it would be early enough not to slow down height development too much...

Things change everyday, so I don't know exactly how I'm going to approach adding more plants, but clearly it needs to be done! I'll let you guys know as I figure it out.

Thanks for the advice!


----------



## Tatan (Apr 2, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Be careful with that mystery hermie...read mared's post about it above^^^, you don't want pollen fucking up those other girls!
> 
> I was going to top according to uncle ben's guidelines, and I figured if it was only 5-6 nodes it would be early enough not to slow down height development too much...
> 
> ...


Yeah... I read what Mared said... and and yeah it sucks... I´m not sure mine is a hermie but if it is... I got to keeo her and remove anything that might look like a ball cause all my other plants have been turning out male...

Here is an inexpensive idea for you...
Instead of filling your empty space with seedlings and going 12/12... 

You already have extra cfl... you could use each extra bulb for each seedling by putting the bulb vey close to the plant and letting them grow in a separate room on 24/7... once they grow a bit toss them in the flower closet...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 2, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Yeah... I read what Mared said... and and yeah it sucks... I´m not sure mine is a hermie but if it is... I got to keeo her and remove anything that might look like a ball cause all my other plants have been turning out male...
> 
> Here is an inexpensive idea for you...
> Instead of filling your empty space with seedlings and going 12/12...
> ...


I know how you feel! I NEED to get some feminized seeds so I can stop fucking with these males!

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head with what I'm planning on doing. I've got plenty of cfl's lying around now in BOTH spectrums, so a few will go straight into the flower room and the rest will get some 24/0 or 18/6 daylight for at least a week or two. It's like starting my second grow while still on my first!

I found a ball on the tall girl this morning . I plucked the one off her and the two off the other girl. Sucks hardcore!


----------



## Tatan (Apr 2, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> I know how you feel! I NEED to get some feminized seeds so I can stop fucking with these males!
> 
> You've pretty much hit the nail on the head with what I'm planning on doing. I've got plenty of cfl's lying around now in BOTH spectrums, so a few will go straight into the flower room and the rest will get some 24/0 or 18/6 daylight for at least a week or two. It's like starting my second grow while still on my first!
> 
> I found a ball on the tall girl this morning . I plucked the one off her and the two off the other girl. Sucks hardcore!


 
Yeah...sigh... lol...you start out thinking that your grow is going to be a certain way... and then you find yourself in the middle of it changing your plans around cause something happened...

I´m thinking the same thing and getting some feminized seeds for my next grow...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 3, 2009)

Just a brief update on things...no pics yet, but later today I'll get some up.

Plants are looking good. The tall one keeps on growing. I've raised the lights as high as they will go. I'm going to have to raise the shelf from which the lights hang as opposed to dropping the lower shelf, as I need to fit my cooler a/c unit underneath the bottom shelf. It's going to reduce the space of my veg room, but I'm not even using it yet.

Seeds--about 7 have sprouted roots to various lengths. None have been planted yet. A couple started to develop this web-like substance (which I attributed to be mold) and were tossed out. I changed the paper towel, plate, and bowl to clean ones for the remaining seeds. Gonna have to throw them in some plastic cups soon (except for the few that are going straight to 12/12, which I'm putting in the black plastic containers I used previously).

Buds are looking nice, especially on the tall girl! No sign of any more balls developing, though I have yet to thoroughly inspect the situation today. The other two plants are also looking good. Pics to come later. Happy friday!


----------



## Tatan (Apr 3, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Just a brief update on things...no pics yet, but later today I'll get some up.
> 
> Plants are looking good. The tall one keeps on growing. I've raised the lights as high as they will go. I'm going to have to raise the shelf from which the lights hang as opposed to dropping the lower shelf, as I need to fit my cooler a/c unit underneath the bottom shelf. It's going to reduce the space of my veg room, but I'm not even using it yet.
> 
> ...


How tall are your plants now ?
The thing is that, my last plant I put in flower more than tripled in height after being put in flower... so thats a problem...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 3, 2009)

Tatan said:


> How tall are your plants now ?
> The thing is that, my last plant I put in flower more than tripled in height after being put in flower... so thats a problem...


Well, the big girl was 22" yesterday afternoon I think. She's easily 23" today, though I haven't yet measured. The wide girl is probably around 18" and shorty is maybe 12." I'll post some accurate measurements later today with the pics!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 3, 2009)

Things are going well. It is warm outside today, so temps started to hit the high 80's/low 90's. I cut off the cfls for the last hour of daytime.

I'm completely out of space vertical space. I'm going to cut some wood tonight, then by tomorrow morning be ready to move the shelf up.

Seeds have germinated with some roots ~1" so they will get planted tomorrow. I got 24oz clear plastic cups that are deeper than the standard 18oz red and blue beer cups. I'm going to wrap the cup in duct tape to block light from the roots.

Pics...

Tall Girl






Tall girl's top






Shorty






Shorty's top






Wide Girl






Wide girl's top






That's it for today.

As always, lots to do tomorrow.


----------



## Tatan (Apr 3, 2009)

Wow Jerry Tall Girl is really tall.. damn... lol. Yeah man.. this means extra work cause they are stretching more than you expected, same thing happened to me, but look at the bright side... that means more harvest as well

To me ... this is the part when a grow journal really starts getting fun... cause watching plants in veg is not the same as watching the flowering stretch and the flowering

My favorite is Shorty, she has those side stems as well and I betcha she is going to make really nice fat buds. 
Although that top bud aon Tall Girl looks like its going to be a monster...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 4, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Wow Jerry Tall Girl is really tall.. damn... lol. Yeah man.. this means extra work cause they are stretching more than you expected, same thing happened to me, but look at the bright side... that means more harvest as well
> 
> To me ... this is the part when a grow journal really starts getting fun... cause watching plants in veg is not the same as watching the flowering stretch and the flowering
> 
> ...


Yeah, you can't hate them for growing big! 

It's too bad with shorty, as she was my strongest plant until I burned it before I went out of town last month. She could be freaking huge by now...sigh...at least she lived and will produce something! And maybe some clones!


----------



## Tatan (Apr 4, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Yeah, you can't hate them for growing big!
> 
> It's too bad with shorty, as she was my strongest plant until I burned it before I went out of town last month. She could be freaking huge by now...sigh...at least she lived and will produce something! And maybe some clones!


Yeah... but the good thing is ythat she looks 100 times better than after you took out the dead leaves... I´m just surprised at how compact Shorty still is, the short spacing between nodes, thats why I think she might have a lot of growth left...


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 4, 2009)

Plants looking nice and sexy Jerry! Keep it up.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 5, 2009)

This is probably the longest ever between updates, but I was quite busy yesterday. I needed to raise the shelf from which the lights hang, as the tall girl is now 25" and quickly exceeded capacity of the last expansion. I added about another 12" so hopefully that's enough!

Check it out...






I've probably got 5 feet of vertical space now to work with. This added space came at the expense of the veg chamber, which I decided was now too short to pursue. So, I ran to goodwill, picked up a $10 bookshelf (about waist high) that fit my dimensions perfectly, and moved the veg operations to the closet! This, I think, will prove to be the best decision I've made thus far. 

Here are the 9 recently cracked seeds, probably 12-24 hours from sprouting (now that I've got good light on them)






The shelf isn't in the best condition, but suitable enough for my needs! There is also a considerable amount of room for vertical growth here, so I can easily veg them to 10" before tossing them in the flower closet. Quite exciting!

As for the plants, they are doing just fine. I decided to water today for the first time since repotting, and the tall one was starting to show signs of thirst. The top 3 layers of leaves look really narrow are starting to droop considerably, even though the bottom foliage looks fine. It may be heat related as well--she was getting close to the hps before I moved the shelf, so she may have gotten a little heat stressed too. Buds look nice though.

Notice the lean to the left...






Nice looking buds along the middle of the stem here...






Here's the top few nodes...






Here's the bottom few nodes. Couple nice side buds forming. You can't tell from the pics, but each node the entire length of the stem has nice bud growth too...she's stretched so much that it allows a lot of light underneath.






Here's the wide girl. Less lower-bud development (because I dropped a light and knocked off at least one budding branch), but looking nice on top and at each node. She's also not too short herself at 21."






Here's her top. Starting to look really nice!






Last, but certainly not least, shorty! She's got 8-9 lower bud sites developing, as well as nice action along her tightly-packed nodes. 






So, exciting things happening every day! Which reminds me, the power went out today while I was watering. Like, right in the middle of watering. I checked my fuses, but power was out in the whole house, so it wasn't my operations that caused it (which was quite relieving/comforting). I took the plants to my back porch and finished watering. They got about 35 minutes of natural sunlight today as a result, but I don't want to start making that a habit--the plants are so tall they are clearly visible from certain spots. Anyway power came back, everything is OK.

It's been a busy couple days, I must say. I've got some school work to catch up on, so hopefully the girls can just grow without too much intervention while I get some things done.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 5, 2009)

Oh, also starting running the UVB light yesterday (note the large silver reflector in the first pic of the last post). I ran it for about an hour in the middle of the day and right before they went to sleep. Now that the plants are in larger pots, I need to cover the soil before I can continue running the UVB, as the roots are very sensitive to the radiation.


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 5, 2009)

Awesome dude! The ability to veg plants while your flower room is still full is definitely an advantage. Plus you have some nice space to experiment with cloning. From the looks of your bud development on the flowering girls the stretching should be slowing down very soon.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 5, 2009)

Thanks dude, I hope you're right about the stretch...she's so tall already I may have to tie her up when that bud gets bigger.

Just bought some more supplies, going to add more lights somewhere.


----------



## growforgood904 (Apr 5, 2009)

Jerry! looking good my brother!! i just sprouted a new seed as well Jorges diamonds from dutch passion. think ur plants in flowring look really nice!!


----------



## Tatan (Apr 5, 2009)

Jerry, towards the end of the stretch, the new leaves become thinner and then very very small... so thats what you are seeing on the tall girl besides the drooping due to thirst.

I still like shorty the best, she is pretty. Overall looks really good jerry, you are going to get some homegrown buds soon


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 6, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Jerry, towards the end of the stretch, the new leaves become thinner and then very very small... so thats what you are seeing on the tall girl besides the drooping due to thirst.
> 
> I still like shorty the best, she is pretty. Overall looks really good jerry, you are going to get some homegrown buds soon


Yeah, I figured the leaves would get skinny, but the droop...I don't know. It didn't entirely go away when I fed the plant, even though some of the fan leaves were pointing 45 degrees up in the air. Oh well. As long as little buds keeps gaining in size and complexity, I don't care about some skinny leaves!

First couple seedlings broke the surface today...undoubtedly more to follow. Temps getting awful hot with all these lights on and high temps outside. I'm going to switch day/night soon, possibly thursday. They'll get 12 extra (24 straight) hours of darkness before the lights come ON at 6PM. We'll see if I do it. Temps holding around 84 for now...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 7, 2009)

So the girls are coming along well. We're averaging about an inch a day across the board. Tall girl is 27" now, wide girl is 23" and shorty is 11". Bud sites are really getting hairy and bigger every day!

The temp got a little warm yesterday, but the low last night was in the 40's, so it has cooled off nicely this morning. At this point I'm just trying to keep temps under 90 and I'll be satisfied.

5 seedlings have sprouted thus far and two more are visible, though not quite yet broken free of the surface. It's nice to know I've got the next generation under way--I should get a nice rotation going where I harvest bud every 9 weeks or so.

That's about it for the good news. Now for the bad--I think I can see little seed development within wide girl's top bud .
I didn't really see any in Tall girl, but I'm 90% certain this is what they are. Take a look and let me know what you guys think...













This must mean she has already been pollinated right? I'm fairly certain I got all the visible sacks of balls, and I haven't seen any release of pollen. My biggest concern is if Wide girl will pollinate shorty, who I know to be a true female, or even Tall girl, who I found one ball growing on?

Can I carefully pick through the developing buds and remove the little seed-looking things, or should I not bother and accept that I will have some seeds? And if I plant those seeds, will they grow into a hermie plant?

This sucks.

Here's shorty. Still short, but growing now 1"/day






Here's tall girl, showing some serious leaf droopage near the top, but all lower leaves look fine.






Here's the top of tall girl







I don't know what to do about wide girl. Please help with some advice/suggestions!


----------



## Tatan (Apr 7, 2009)

I dont know Jerry... 
What I dont understand is that if you plants did get pollinated and those bulges are seeds... then how did it get pollinated ?

The thing is that the male flower has to open and release the pollen, I didnt think that your plants had enough time for that...
Maqybe you could "sacifice" one of those bulges and open one up to see if there is a seed forming just to make sure ?


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 7, 2009)

Tatan said:


> I dont know Jerry...
> What I dont understand is that if you plants did get pollinated and those bulges are seeds... then how did it get pollinated ?
> 
> The thing is that the male flower has to open and release the pollen, I didnt think that your plants had enough time for that...
> Maqybe you could "sacifice" one of those bulges and open one up to see if there is a seed forming just to make sure ?


I don't know either. I confirmed all the males as soon as I could, so they definitely didn't have time to open up and release pollen. Even if there was a ball or two that I missed and it self-pollinated, it seems unlikely because its only been 20 days, so I don't think the balls on any of them were mature enough to release any pollen.

Maybe they are pollen sacks and not seeds. I think that would be a worse situation.

I posted another thread in the Marijuana Plant Problems forum so I'll probably get some opinions soon. Sacrificing one to check inside isn't a bad option though.

Anyway, here's another pic of shorty I forgot to include earlier.






I don't want this girl being pollinated, and I don't want to trash the hermie, so I'm going to try and find foster home where she/he can release all the pollen it wants and not contaminate my house. That is, unless my house is already contaminated...

Ugh, this sucks hardcore!


----------



## Tatan (Apr 7, 2009)

If I had to guess, I would guess that those bulges arent seeds, but then again its just a guess, my bagseed plant didnt have any bulges like that, eventhough it did have a seed or 2...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 7, 2009)

Tatan said:


> If I had to guess, I would guess that those bulges arent seeds, but then again its just a guess, my bagseed plant didnt have any bulges like that, eventhough it did have a seed or 2...


Well I'm going to leave them be for the moment and wait for some input. I'd be ok with a seed or two, but there are 8 or so bulges already, and we're only 1/4 through flower...

I'm gonna get a little high, work on a paper, and try to forget about it for a while...


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 7, 2009)

I'm afraid I have bad news Jerry. Those are not seeds. Your buds are not developed enough to be forming seeds yet. Those are pollen sacs meaning you have another hermie on your hands. Even if you got seeds off these plants I wouldn't bother growing them out. You know enough about growing now that you can be pretty sure your plants won't die so I would invest in the best possible genetics you can get. It took me a year of growing to find out that genetics makes all the difference. And quality doesn't necessarilly mean expensive. The best strain in my garden can be had for $35 per ten seeds. And it is the dankest bud I have ever smoked. So I'm not saying to scrap anything, just that the sooner you start working with quality genetics the happier you will be.


----------



## Bublonichronic (Apr 7, 2009)

lookin uber nice brotha, i did the ghetto ac thing to, your is much nicer and i bet it works better. best of luck bra


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 7, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> I'm afraid I have bad news Jerry. Those are not seeds. Your buds are not developed enough to be forming seeds yet. Those are pollen sacs meaning you have another hermie on your hands. Even if you got seeds off these plants I wouldn't bother growing them out. You know enough about growing now that you can be pretty sure your plants won't die so I would invest in the best possible genetics you can get. It took me a year of growing to find out that genetics makes all the difference. And quality doesn't necessarilly mean expensive. The best strain in my garden can be had for $35 per ten seeds. And it is the dankest bud I have ever smoked. So I'm not saying to scrap anything, just that the sooner you start working with quality genetics the happier you will be.


Always the bearer of such bright news mared...just kidding! But really, if those are pollen sacks, then this bitch is out of my garden pronto. She/he was looking good too...nice bud formation and everything. Oh well.

I'm going to try and take to a friends house and let it just do its thing there under some cfls. Or, I'll just scrap the bitch. That sucks hardcore. Every time I get attached to a plant, I have to kill it.

You are totally right about the genetics thing though. I've known this all along, but I don't have anywhere to ship the seeds. I'm not in a medicinally-legal state, and I definitely don't want it shipped here. I'm working on it though, don't you worry...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 7, 2009)

Bublonichronic said:


> lookin uber nice brotha, i did the ghetto ac thing to, your is much nicer and i bet it works better. best of luck bra


Thanks man. I actually turned the damn thing off the other day b/c my cpu fans suck. I'm going to get some high-cfm cpu fans (around 100cfm) that really blow some air and it will help immensely. It does work though, mine just needs to work a little better as its getting hotter outside.


----------



## Bublonichronic (Apr 7, 2009)

well bro i dunno how much power your lookin for but these are the best iv seen for the price your girls will thank you in the summer http://www.acehardware.com/sm-stanley-and-reg-blower-fan--pi-1747223.html theyr about $45 at wallmart


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 7, 2009)

Bublonichronic said:


> well bro i dunno how much power your lookin for but these are the best iv seen for the price your girls will thank you in the summer http://www.acehardware.com/sm-stanley-and-reg-blower-fan--pi-1747223.html theyr about $45 at wallmart


I've been toying with the idea for sure...that thing looks like it will move some serious air!


----------



## Tatan (Apr 7, 2009)

Wait a minute....
As you know im on my first grow, so I dont know that much, but I dont really see how those bulges could possibly be pollen sacks...

I thought that to get pollen you need a male flower that looks like a ball... this ball stretches and then after maturing opens up and drops the pollen. I dont see a male flower in there to develop any pollen, and besides, if it did develop its too early for it to be filling up with pollen anyway... doesnt make sense to me.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 7, 2009)

I did find two male balls growing on the lower nodes as I mentioned before. Even though I removed those, more were going to grow from other nodes. Female bud growth had already begun at the nodes, so these little balls just grew in with it.

I found one ball on tall girl, so I'm concerned that may the same thing will happen to her. It's hard to tell, but there might be a few sacks in her buds as well. I'm gonna give her a few days, but she may be going to my friends house with wide girl...leaving only shorty! That fucking sucks!


----------



## Tatan (Apr 7, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> I did find two male balls growing on the lower nodes as I mentioned before. Even though I removed those, more were going to grow from other nodes. Female bud growth had already begun at the nodes, so these little balls just grew in with it.
> 
> I found one ball on tall girl, so I'm concerned that may the same thing will happen to her. It's hard to tell, but there might be a few sacks in her buds as well. I'm gonna give her a few days, but she may be going to my friends house with wide girl...leaving only shorty! That fucking sucks!


 
I would just give it a couple days, that way you will see how those bulges develop.


----------



## fauxsho02 (Apr 7, 2009)

Hey, your plants look a lot like mine except mine are about a week behind your last pics. Have you used any fertilizer on them yet? when and what kind?


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 7, 2009)

fauxsho02 said:


> Hey, your plants look a lot like mine except mine are about a week behind your last pics. Have you used any fertilizer on them yet? when and what kind?


I use Foxfarm Big Bloom and Tiger Bloom nutrients, molasses, Indonesian bat guano, and superthrive. I've been feeding with every other watering or so since week 3 or so of Veg.

What strain are you working with? How long you been going? Any pics?


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 7, 2009)

Tatan said:


> I would just give it a couple days, that way you will see how those bulges develop.


I don't think they're going to pop too soon, so I'll give them another few days to show me whats going on.


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 7, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Wait a minute....
> As you know im on my first grow, so I dont know that much, but I dont really see how those bulges could possibly be pollen sacks...
> 
> I thought that to get pollen you need a male flower that looks like a ball... this ball stretches and then after maturing opens up and drops the pollen. I dont see a male flower in there to develop any pollen, and besides, if it did develop its too early for it to be filling up with pollen anyway... doesnt make sense to me.


Well there is no way those are seeds and those are definitely not 100% female buds so that leaves only one possibility -> herm. Also, in the case of hermies, pollen sacs devolop in little groups or clusters. Growers use the term "spitting banannas or nanners." As I said before this is quite common late in flower when the female is crying out for pollen. If you have ever seen one you would not mistake it. I wish I had pics of the ones I've had. Many times there will be a single bannana shaped sac but occasionally I have had clusters of sacs as well. So just trust me, those are pollen sacs 100% guaranteed.


----------



## Tatan (Apr 7, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Well there is no way those are seeds and those are definitely not 100% female buds so that leaves only one possibility -> herm. Also, in the case of hermies, pollen sacs devolop in little groups or clusters. Growers use the term "spitting banannas or nanners." As I said before this is quite common late in flower when the female is crying out for pollen. If you have ever seen one you would not mistake it. I wish I had pics of the ones I've had. Many times there will be a single bannana shaped sac but occasionally I have had clusters of sacs as well. So just trust me, those are pollen sacs 100% guaranteed.


 
Yeah... I know exactly what you mean... 
My bagseed plant that I just harvested had some weird stuff come out at the end. You just said bananas... and thast exactly what they looked like.. like a mini banana coming out, but that happened late in flowerring and they look very different fom jerrys pics


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 8, 2009)

I've accepted my fate that its hermie and that it has to go. No pollen in this house.

My buddy said we can probably stick it in his closet with some cfls. At least I'll get to watch it grow to maturity still!

So it's gonna produce seeds--will they be of any use to me? Or will they likely turn out herm like momma? Just curious...I was told they will just produce a hermie plant when they grow up (which would make sense considering all this).

As far as bananas, I've heard of it before as well, and as you said it is a little early for that with me. It makes sense that they would be male pollen sacks within the buds, because the sacks grow from the nodes, just like the buds. The nodes are currently occupied by buds, but the balls just squeeze their way right on in...bastards. I've accepted it. It sucks.

But you grow and learn and grow some more!

Thanks for your help Mared and Tatan!


----------



## Tatan (Apr 8, 2009)

I dont know jerry, Ive read that this is the way to make feminized seeds and ive also read what you said that you get hermies out of the seeds, so dont know which is right.


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 8, 2009)

What I've heard is feminised seeds happen when you stress a 100% true female into becoming herm. You have to force it to happen by spraying a giberillic acid solution on it. If your plant hermies naturally then the seeds will probably do the same. Again, that is something I've heard and don't know for a fact. But it sounds like it makes sense.

Oh... and about the banannas. If you've had them before you know they don't turn that light brown color until they have fully pushed out of the plant. Before that they are little green nubs. So just imagine a bunch of those clustered together. That's what Jerry has. Maybe they're not pollen sacs just yet but they are developing into them.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 8, 2009)

I'm starting to be able to distinguish little sacks in tall girl's buds too. Sucks. She will be sequestered with wide girl to my buddy's house sometime today, where they can both pollinate each other until the freaking cows come home.

At least there's still shorty!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 8, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> What I've heard is feminised seeds happen when you stress a 100% true female into becoming herm. You have to force it to happen by spraying a giberillic acid solution on it. If your plant hermies naturally then the seeds will probably do the same. Again, that is something I've heard and don't know for a fact. But it sounds like it makes sense.
> 
> Oh... and about the banannas. If you've had them before you know they don't turn that light brown color until they have fully pushed out of the plant. Before that they are little green nubs. So just imagine a bunch of those clustered together. That's what Jerry has. Maybe they're not pollen sacs just yet but they are developing into them.


Seeing as how I'm going to be keeping them anyway, could I try to pick out the little nubs with some tweezers? Or maybe wait until they develop into bananas and push out of the buds? If, theoretically, I could remove all pollen sacks could I keep it from pollinating itself, thereby maintaining sensimillia? There are only a couple barely visible sacks on tall girl, so it may be easier to keep her clean?

I'd like to experiment a little with them, and still get some bud! They're gonna have lots!


----------



## Tatan (Apr 8, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Seeing as how I'm going to be keeping them anyway, could I try to pick out the little nubs with some tweezers? Or maybe wait until they develop into bananas and push out of the buds? If, theoretically, I could remove all pollen sacks could I keep it from pollinating itself, thereby maintaining sensimillia? There are only a couple barely visible sacks on tall girl, so it may be easier to keep her clean?
> 
> I'd like to experiment a little with them, and still get some bud! They're gonna have lots!


 
Yeah Jerry, I think that would work, cause my bagseed plant had quite a few bananas come out, and I only pulled them out the day before I harvested... In one case I even saw the little banana open when i yanked it and a little cloud of pollen came out. The thing is that i removed them very late and the weed I harvested, doesnt have seeds, so I think you will be fine.

I never removed the bananas earlier cause i didnt know what they were. I expected male flowers to look like the little balls that you see when plants show sex. It took the pollen to come out and Mared talking about bananas for me to fully realize, cause thats exactly what they look like .. little bananas. Only thing I can think of is that the balls are male flowers, the little bananas are what male flowers look like when they grow in between female flowers maybe ?


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 8, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Yeah Jerry, I think that would work, cause my bagseed plant had quite a few bananas come out, and I only pulled them out the day before I harvested... In one case I even saw the little banana open when i yanked it and a little cloud of pollen came out. The thing is that i removed them very late and the weed I harvested, doesnt have seeds, so I think you will be fine.
> 
> I never removed the bananas earlier cause i didnt know what they were. I expected male flowers to look like the little balls that you see when plants show sex. It took the pollen to come out and Mared talking about bananas for me to fully realize, cause thats exactly what they look like .. little bananas. Only thing I can think of is that the balls are male flowers, the little bananas are what male flowers look like when they grow in between female flowers maybe ?


So how long then does it take for the male pollen sacks on a hermie to open? Will these turn out to be naners? I'm gonna try to pluck them off as best I can, but they are pretty enveloped in the bud.


----------



## Tatan (Apr 8, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> So how long then does it take for the male pollen sacks on a hermie to open? Will these turn out to be naners? I'm gonna try to pluck them off as best I can, but they are pretty enveloped in the bud.


Well, once you see the banana you still have at least a week, cause i had plenty of bananas and im smoking sinsemilla as we speak


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 8, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Well, once you see the banana you still have at least a week, cause i had plenty of bananas and im smoking sinsemilla as we speak


Well I'll continue to chronicle their lives as they develop.

I wish the sensi i was smoking was my homegrown...soon enough


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 9, 2009)

Just wanted to throw a brief update out there. Temps have been quite cool over the last two days, allowing for favorable conditions in the grow rooms. This trend will shortly be ending, and with it my attempt to run the lights during the day. Growing at night will help immensely in my fight against high temps, so I'm switching the on-off time. I'm going out of town this evening, so the lights will go off at 6pm (par usual) and then stay off for 24 hours until 6pm Friday, when they will come back on and stay on until 6am.

The plants all look fine. The leaves atop tall girl have been drooping consistently--not sure if it's heat stress or what, but it's probably much warmer near the hps than it is where my thermometer sits. Oh well...thats why I'm switching the hours.

All plants were watered and fed today--3 tbsp big bloom, 1.5 tbsp tiger bloom, 2 tbsp indonesian high phosphorous bat guano and a healthy pour of molasses (I never measure this, I just pour until it seems "right"). I also used the filtered tap water this round instead of distilled (tap water has higher pH)--the tiger bloom apparently lowers pH, as they suggesting raising the pH to between 5.6 and 6.3, so using higher pH tap water should help that more than the distilled. Either way, I don't have an effective method of measuring pH. The strips I have tried on the runoff are pretty useless, so maybe I'll buy new ones and see if I can get results.

On the hermie front, the wide girl is prolifeating her pollen sacks. My buddy never came home yesterday, so I'll have to wait for the move. Tall girl does appear to have the same sacks, though far fewer in number than wide girl. Shorty is still short, at 11.5". Tall girl is 28.5" and wide is 23.5". Growth is, I think, slowing down a little now, which is good for everyone except shorty!

I have 9 little seedlings that have sprouted out of my 15 or so I started with. Only one germinated and failed to sprout (my fault--soil compacted a little much I think). Once the two tall girls are out, i'll have room for some 12/12 from seed girls. I may just throw some of the seedlings in there now just for fun.

No pics this morning...I'll try to throw some up before I take off.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 9, 2009)

Here they are...

I should call them the three stooges because they're all so different






Here's wide girl, looking wide. Pollen sacks didn't go away in the last 2 hours...damn







Here's the top few nodes of wide girl






You can see the sacks well in this shot






Here's tall girl. 28.5" and still growing...will she hit 30? My money is on yes






Here's a top down view of tall girls top






Another from the side...






Short stuff...






from the side






Her top






Her top again. She is clearly developing slower than her sisters due to her stressful midlife...but coming right along and 100% female.






Babies






Running 24/0 light cycle...we'll see how it turns out.






Until tomorrow...


----------



## Tatan (Apr 9, 2009)

Wow, thanks for all the pics Jerry. Love your plants, lol tall girl has really gotten tall. One thing ive noticed is their pistils are really thick compared to my plants... and those buds are getting dense very fast. You are going to have a nice harvest.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 10, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Wow, thanks for all the pics Jerry. Love your plants, lol tall girl has really gotten tall. One thing ive noticed is their pistils are really thick compared to my plants... and those buds are getting dense very fast. You are going to have a nice harvest.


I think the bud density is thanks to the hps...I heard all along that cfls can grow good pot, but hps will give fat juicy nugs! So I use both.

The girls are (hopefully) enjoying their extended nap...Lights ended up going off at 4 yesterday. I was going to flip them back on at 6pm, but I may wait a couple more hours--it will still be pretty warm at 6 during the spring/summer, so I think I'll wait till 8pm to fire things back up.

The little seedlings are doing well. I've got them on 24/0, which is different from my last experiment (18/6) and I can't really notice a difference. They are already onto their second set of serrated leaves, so maybe its going a little faster?

I think my buddy may have backed out of letting me use his closet...sucks, but I understand. Looking more like they will finish off the next 4ish weeks of flower in my house, pollen and all. If I can't find anywhere else to take them, I'll just try to pick out all the pollen sacks and hope I keep the amount in my room to a minimum. And then I'll take everything out and scrub the entire bathroom to make sure it doesn't infect the next generation of wonderful plants!

I'll throw some pics up tonight after the lights come back on.


----------



## Tatan (Apr 10, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> I think the bud density is thanks to the hps...I heard all along that cfls can grow good pot, but hps will give fat juicy nugs! So I use both.
> 
> The girls are (hopefully) enjoying their extended nap...Lights ended up going off at 4 yesterday. I was going to flip them back on at 6pm, but I may wait a couple more hours--it will still be pretty warm at 6 during the spring/summer, so I think I'll wait till 8pm to fire things back up.
> 
> ...


 
That will work, just wait until something pops from those bulges so you can see for sure.. like when the banana comes out...
About the lighting ... yeah having that HPS there im sure helps a lot. I´m thinking about gettin an HPS as well for my next order of seeds.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 11, 2009)

Tatan said:


> That will work, just wait until something pops from those bulges so you can see for sure.. like when the banana comes out...
> About the lighting ... yeah having that HPS there im sure helps a lot. I´m thinking about gettin an HPS as well for my next order of seeds.


I highly recommend getting an hps if you've got the space/cash. My 150w is great, but I don't think I can get more than 4 plants under it without losing some light. But that's why I've got cfls. And only 3 plants (for now).

I'm thinking I could fit a 250w in my flower space for sure...so I'll probably try to sell my 150w to a friend.

On a related note, I'm very close to ordering some seeds from attitude! My buddy and I are going to split 5 feminized big buddha blue cheese and 5 feminized violator kush (+ free seeds: 5 G13 Labs skunk #1, one feminized PPP and another feminized something else I can't remember). So, I'm gonna try to finalize the deal today and make that shit happen! 

I forgot to take pics of the plants yesterday. I started the day cycle at 8pm. Temps stayed between 81 and 84. All plants looking good, except the top leaves of shorty are starting to look like the top leaves of tall girl--bulging convexly and curling down. Not as severe in shorty though, just looks similar. I'll really take pics when they come back to the light at 8pm. I didn't notice much/any difference in the plants following their 28ish hour nap, except tall girl had grown some more and was too close to the hps. I raised it a couple links, but have yet to take a height measurement...I'm guessing 31" when I check back tonight. I'm pretty sure she was under 15" when she went to flower, so she has more than doubled in height.

As for the little ones, they are doing well. I had been leaving them outside of the dome until today--three of them started to cup their leaves and angle themselves up towards the light. I've heard this is a sign of low humidity. so I threw the dome back on. Puts the plants a little farther from the light, but I think they'll be fine.

That's it. Sorry I'm slacking on the photos. Busy busy.


----------



## Tatan (Apr 11, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> I highly recommend getting an hps if you've got the space/cash. My 150w is great, but I don't think I can get more than 4 plants under it without losing some light. But that's why I've got cfls. And only 3 plants (for now).
> 
> I'm thinking I could fit a 250w in my flower space for sure...so I'll probably try to sell my 150w to a friend.
> 
> ...


 
Im also going to getting my next order of seeds from the attitude- and I was thinking about getting big buddha blue cheese myself among the other stuff


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 11, 2009)

Hey Jerry, you're right. HPS makes all the difference. I like the move to 250watt. You will notice a difference for sure. CFLs work well but for lumens of output per watt used there is no comparison. 

What breeder are your seeds from? The cheese should be super funky and kush is my favorite type of smoke so those sound like good picks.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 11, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Hey Jerry, you're right. HPS makes all the difference. I like the move to 250watt. You will notice a difference for sure. CFLs work well but for lumens of output per watt used there is no comparison.
> 
> What breeder are your seeds from? The cheese should be super funky and kush is my favorite type of smoke so those sound like good picks.


The Blue Cheese is from Big Buddha (indica cup 2006 winner)...and the Violator Kush is Barney's Farm. Here are a couple pics from the website...look mighty tasty, and FEMINIZED! It's more expensive, but my male/female ration SUCKS so far...

Hopefully gonna get that 250watter soon and really grow some beautiful plants!

Edit: First Pic is Kush, second is Blue Cheese


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 11, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Im also going to getting my next order of seeds from the attitude- and I was thinking about getting big buddha blue cheese myself among the other stuff


It's so hard to choose! I think you should get the Cannabiogen Destroyer...check out these trichs! They're sold out of feminized, but they have standard!


----------



## Tatan (Apr 11, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> It's so hard to choose! I think you should get the Cannabiogen Destroyer...check out these trichs! They're sold out of feminized, but they have standard!


Yeah, actually a friend of mine recommended that strain... destroyer... really expensive seed though.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 12, 2009)

So I did manage to snap some photos before the lights went out this morning. Not too much new to report. Tall girl is 30.5" and maybe stabilized. Shorty is still 11.5" and wide girl is 25."

Buds are coming along nicely. I've been monitoring the hermie situation and haven't seen much change. In fact, it looks less hermie-ish now than it did 5 days ago...maybe thats because the bud is growing around the pollen sacks...

The little tykes are doing well. They seem to enjoy the humidity dome--its ~50% rh in there and 79 degrees. The dome keeps the cfls a little farther away from the plants than I would like, but I don't think stretch much if any.

Anyway...PICS!

We'll start with Wide Gril. No droopage, no curl...looking good! Just lose the pollen sacks and we'd be golden!






Top few nodes of Wide girl






Another top shot--hard to distinguish pollen sacks, but they're there.






Tall Girl. Just very tall. Top leaves still droopy and curling. Pretty sure it's heat stress from being so close to the hps all the time--should I raise the light? Eh, its just some leaves. 






Tall girl's top. Looking fine just fine.






More top shots






Here's the bottom few bud sites. Also looking nice.






Finally, Shorty. Vertical growth seems to not be moving as much as originally hoped. I want her to stretch a little.






One from the side. Lots of little bud action.






The three amigas 






Seedlings.






That's it. I'll update any changes as they happen. Plants wake up at 8pm.


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 12, 2009)

Jerry, I have good news. I might have been wrong before about your pollen sacks. I feel like an asshole after the 100% guarantee and all but it wasn't until I had a discussion with my friend on another forum that I found out. He was posting pics of his plants that are the same age as yours and I was like WTF, they have the pollen sacs too. He said no, he has grown that strain before and it had "abnormal calyx formation" as he put it. The buds in the beginning will look a lot like pollen sacs but they will swell as they fatten up around the pistils. I have 7 different strains I have grown out and none of them do this (all of my calyxes look like little cones) but my friend knows what he's talking about when it comes to growing. So I really hope that I was full of shit and worried you for nothing and your plants are actually 100% female. The "sacs" do seem a lot less noticeable in the more recent pics.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 12, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Jerry, I have good news. I might have been wrong before about your pollen sacks. I feel like an asshole after the 100% guarantee and all but it wasn't until I had a discussion with my friend on another forum that I found out. He was posting pics of his plants that are the same age as yours and I was like WTF, they have the pollen sacs too. He said no, he has grown that strain before and it had "abnormal calyx formation" as he put it. The buds in the beginning will look a lot like pollen sacs but they will swell as they fatten up around the pistils. I have 7 different strains I have grown out and none of them do this (all of my calyxes look like little cones) but my friend knows what he's talking about when it comes to growing. So I really hope that I was full of shit and worried you for nothing and your plants are actually 100% female. The "sacs" do seem a lot less noticeable in the more recent pics.


Ya know, I did a google image search for hermie plants and found lots of things that didn't look like mine, and only one that kinda did.

My issue is I plucked 2 balls of wide girl and 1 off tall girl (at least, I'm pretty sure they were balls--some of the calyxes have looked similar to balls, just slightly more teardrop shaped, so maybe I was hasty to remove them, but I think not). If they got stressed b/c a dropped a light on them and killed a portion of the plant, and that caused them to turn hermie, maybe it wasn't enough to make the _entire_ plant hermie, just those 2 nodes...

Maybe I just made that up. But from the pics I saw, you could have a hermie plant with distinct male and female branches.

And the pollen sacks get FUCKING HUGE before they're ready to pop, so I can probably remove them if/when they get like that.

Either way, they look less hermish, which as I suggested could just be the calyxes growing around the pollen sacks until they get big...but that seems unlikely.

So, for now, a sigh of pseudo-relief  and we wait to see how they look at 8pm. I love the new schedule by the way--I solved my light problem by hanging a thick dark maroon curtain over the outside of the make-shift bubble-wrap doors that block most of the light by themselves, but I feel much better with the curtain up.

Thanks for looking into that mared...much appreciated!


----------



## Tatan (Apr 12, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Ya know, I did a google image search for hermie plants and found lots of things that didn't look like mine, and only one that kinda did.
> 
> My issue is I plucked 2 balls of wide girl and 1 off tall girl (at least, I'm pretty sure they were balls--some of the calyxes have looked similar to balls, just slightly more teardrop shaped, so maybe I was hasty to remove them, but I think not). If they got stressed b/c a dropped a light on them and killed a portion of the plant, and that caused them to turn hermie, maybe it wasn't enough to make the _entire_ plant hermie, just those 2 nodes...
> 
> ...


Well.. its a good thing the hermie thing is sorted out, and if you see any little bananas ... just pluck em out...

Looks like your plants are done stretching... I´m surprised at how fast your plants are filling out with pistils, looks very nice. Congrats man


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 12, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Well.. its a good thing the hermie thing is sorted out, and if you see any little bananas ... just pluck em out...
> 
> Looks like your plants are done stretching... I´m surprised at how fast your plants are filling out with pistils, looks very nice. Congrats man


Thanks dude! I'm not sure the situation is quite sorted out yet, but its getting there.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 12, 2009)

Plants woke up at 8. All look very good, especially tall girl. Her pistils are so thick and juicy...

Been a couple days since watering, so they got a little. I've been wondering though...I feed with every watering...should I water w/o nutes occasionally, or more than occasionally? It doesn't seem to be harming the plants doing it every time, and I know I need to flush the last week or two, but maybe once or twice before them is in order? Just a thought.

That's it...more in the morning


----------



## growforgood904 (Apr 13, 2009)

Hey Jerry!! Those seedlings look good!! How many total? And are they all from bag?


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 13, 2009)

There are 14 total, 9 have sprouted, and they all came from bag seeds, so I don't care if I screw these up. Gonna order some good ones any day now I'm hoping...


----------



## growforgood904 (Apr 13, 2009)

Sweet! U never know! u might get the next big pheno!!!!


----------



## phil le b (Apr 13, 2009)

THEY ARE LOOKING READY TO GO INTO FLOWEING MATE THEY GOT ONE MORE MONTH OF GROTH B4 THE START TO FLOWER AND POT THEM IN BIGGER POTS BUT WAT U HAVE DONE SO FAR IS ALL GOOD TO VEG BIT LIKE HOW I AM DOING MY GIRLS




M DOING IT LOOK AT MY PICS


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 13, 2009)

phil le b said:


> THEY ARE LOOKING READY TO GO INTO FLOWEING MATE THEY GOT ONE MORE MONTH OF GROTH B4 THE START TO FLOWER AND POT THEM IN BIGGER POTS BUT WAT U HAVE DONE SO FAR IS ALL GOOD TO VEG BIT LIKE HOW I AM DOING MY GIRLSM DOING IT LOOK AT MY PICS


Yo man what kind of bulbs are those? Never seen anything like it.

I'm gonna let these veg for at least a month, and I plan on doing some topping or fimming. I'm going to leave some in the 24oz cups as long I possibly can, just to see how they react. I'm also going to throw a couple into the flower chamber and grow them 12/12 all the way (as I planned on doing earlier). Now that I'm pretty sure my other girls are going to yield me some smoke, I can fuck around a little until I get the attitude seeds I've got my eye on.

Speaking of that...do you guys order seeds to the house you're growing in? I'm not gonna do it, but didn't know how other people roll.

Pics tonight after 8pm.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 14, 2009)

I tried to get this up sooner, but the RIU database was apparently down this morning. Plants are looking and smelling quite nice, though I'm still experiencing some top leaf droopage in tall girl, and similar developments are beginning to take place on shorty. After doing a little research, I came across a condition commonly referred to as "the claw." I think this most accurately describes what is happening in my plants (though it was difficult to find information about it and its not in those "marijuana plant problem" compendiums found online).

The causes are heat stress, ph imbalance/fluctuation, over-nuteing, and root-bound. My pots are big enough I don't think its root bound, the ph could be off but I don't think its fluctuating, over-nuteing is certainly a possibility and I'm been fighting the heat the whole time. So, it sounds like a combination of factors.

Though the ph may be off, I'm not showing any signs of nutrient lockout (at least not discolored or spotty leaves or weird leaf twisting), and the problem is still confined to the top few nodes, though it may be slowing moving down to the lower foliage. I could certainly have overnuted them--I just always want to feed those juicy buds! I think it is more likely that I'm getting a salt buildup in the soil, so I will flush when they wake up tonight and see if that helps.

On a related note, trichomes are beginning to appear around the little budsites . And, no sign of those possible pollen sacks! I'm thinking the irregular calyx thing was right on (at least I'll keep hoping!) though I continue to monitor the situation closely.

Anyway, things are starting to look real nice, and I think I'm actually going to get some quality bud when this is all said and done! Take a look for yourselves...

We begin with tall girl and her "claws." Some of the top leaves are still laying flat, and the lower ones still look good, so I'm not too concerned about it just yet. But I am still going to flush and try to better monitor my ph






Here's the top--beginning to fill in nicely.






This one's a little blurry, but its a lower bud with trichomes and her first orange hairs!






Here's a nice shot of one of the middle nodes...frosty...






Next, we have wide girl...minor clawing beginning to show on the foliage growth around the stem






Here's a better view of the clawing. I guess she is doing it more than I thought.






Here's her top. Looking good. Much thinner pistils than tall girl.






Here's a couple central buds beginning to get frosty






Shorty. Still short. Starting to see some clawing up top, but minor as of right now.






Here's shorty's top. Looked like it was developing a little cluster of something that I hope is not pollen sacks. She's never shown signs of hermie to this point, so I think its just new calyxes or something. The picture doesn't show it too well.






My little awkward looking family...






Oh, and can't forget about the babies!






I must say that this part of the growing experience is without a doubt the most fun! I'm still 30+ days away from harvest, which is kind of a bummer, but I can totally wait. And by then the next round will be ready to flower and I'll have a fresh harvest in another ~9 weeks! And maybe, just maybe, I'll get that blue cheese and violator kush I've been salivating over...


----------



## growforgood904 (Apr 14, 2009)

Hey Jerry they are quite the trio! buds filling in are looking very nice!!!


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 14, 2009)

Buds look great man. As far as the curl, my bet would also be on salt buildup. Over nute and ph imbalance would be causing discoloration of the leaves as well as curling which I don't see happening. And too much heat usually makes the outer edges of the leaf curl UP rather than the leaf tip curling down. A good flush of the soil never hurts so I would give it a shot.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 14, 2009)

Thanks guys, I'm gonna give it a good flush when they wake up and go from there. Not much else to do.

I actually have this stuff, Final Flush, that my girlfriend bought for me (my hydro shop is a couple hours away and she was nearby, so I had her pick me up some things). I didn't ask for the stuff, but the stoner guys working there seemed to make her think it was "necessary." I proceeded to tell her thank you, but water works just fine for that. $15 we'll never see again I suppose...

Anyway, now that I've got this stuff, you think I should use it? I'll probably use it towards the end of flower, again just because I have it, but maybe I should give it a whirl now to try and flush out the salts?

Just thought I'd throw that out there. Anything for my girls!


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 14, 2009)

I've never used a flush product. I guess that tells you how necessary it really is LOL. I'm not even sure what exactly they are supposed to achieve. And for that reason I would say to save it for the end. I imagine if you flush with it and want to feed again you would have to flush a second time with plain water to get all of the flush product out. Who knows, maybe this flush product blocks the uptake of nutes. 

I also wanted to comment on your seed ordering question before but I forgot. I have to ordered seeds to place I live and grow twice and got away with it. That being said, it's not very smart to do that and I won't again if possible. I know people who have had their seeds confiscated and all that happens is Customs sends you a letter but still it's better safe than sorry, right? I would try using a friend or family members address if you can. And order no more than twenty seeds at a time which I imagine you are doing anyway.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 14, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> I've never used a flush product. I guess that tells you how necessary it really is LOL. I'm not even sure what exactly they are supposed to achieve. And for that reason I would say to save it for the end. I imagine if you flush with it and want to feed again you would have to flush a second time with plain water to get all of the flush product out. Who knows, maybe this flush product blocks the uptake of nutes.
> 
> I also wanted to comment on your seed ordering question before but I forgot. I have to ordered seeds to place I live and grow twice and got away with it. That being said, it's not very smart to do that and I won't again if possible. I know people who have had their seeds confiscated and all that happens is Customs sends you a letter but still it's better safe than sorry, right? I would try using a friend or family members address if you can. And order no more than twenty seeds at a time which I imagine you are doing anyway.


I'll probably hold off on the flush product until the end. They'll get some clean water.

As for the seeds...I just ordered some that we are shipping to a safe address. Got the barney's farm blue cheese and feminized autoflowering lowryder#2 x ak47. I'm excited!


----------



## Tatan (Apr 14, 2009)

Yeah sounds like the curling could be cured with a flush, and as fa as that flush product... yeah probably wont help any but then again it might, why not use it...

Man im still amazed the pistils on the tall girl are so thick. Im wondering if that means that the calyxes will be bigger as well, making for bigger buds... could be..


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 16, 2009)

Girls are all looking very nice. Bud development is coming right along. I gave tall girl and wide girl both a solid flush yesterday using either 5 or 6 gallons of water. The runoff was a yellowish color for the first couple gallons, eventually getting clear-ish. Neither appeared to suffer any ill effects from the flush, but it also didn't straighten out the claws on tall girl. Maybe they are too damaged to return to proper form? Maybe I haven't given it long enough yet? 

Either way, I don't really care what happens to them. They are relatively small leaves that would only serve to obstruct light from the buds anyway...I know they are the photosynthetic powerhouse of the plant and you don't want to remove them, but there are plenty on the lower branches that look healthy.

Having said that, I think the flush helped Wide girl out a little--the leaves growing directly around the stem seem to have straightened out a bit. She didn't have much curl anyway. None around the top either.

Shorty, however, seems to be progressively getting worse. I didn't flush with the others because I thought she needed one more day before watering, so I did it yesterday. Top and side leaves are starting to claw just like tall girl. When I flushed, the water was not nearly as yellow as that of tall and wide girls, probably because after it got burnt I used WAY less nutes to let it rebound. Either way I used 2.5 gallons of water and flushed the shit out of it.

Had another mini-disaster today, this time in the veg closet. The shelf that held all my hanging clothes, a bunch of shit on top, and my 10 cfls all came crashing down. I had just checked on them and walked away when it buckled (its a metal grate-type shelf supported by these flimsy braces. I had it fixed and strengthened some months ago (after a similar collapse) and it has been fine since.

On the positive side, none of the seedlings got too damaged, thanks to the humidity dome! Luckily I was in the house, cuz if not that could have been a fire hazard...

I'm going to cut some 2x4's today and fix it again, hopefully for good this time.

Here are the pics--my camera died before could get any of shorty, so it'll have to wait until tonight. Maybe she'll have perked up a little by then.

Tall girl. Lots of buds all over, getting frosty by the day






Here's one of her top. Still have many days left for that sucker to fill in.






Wide girl doing good. Still inspecting for pollen sacks, but no such development since those two balls were plucked 2 weeks ago.






Wide girl top. Thinner pistils, but looking good! 






I tried to show the lower bud development...didn't work as well I hoped, but this girl and tall girl both are experiencing prolific bud production from the lower canopy!






That's about it.

Got a confirmation that my seeds have been picked up by the Royal Mail and are now en route! Exciting! Just a recap, I'm getting Barney's Farm Blue Cheese feminized, and Lowryder Seeds (I think this is the breeder name...not sure) Lowryder#2 x AK47 feminized autoflowering. And some free ones.

Now what to do with the closet full of seedlings...


----------



## Gastanker (Apr 16, 2009)

Lovely looking ladies there. Well done! Can't wait for those buds to start swelling - I think you're looking at one crazy ass cola on that big girl.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 16, 2009)

Gastanker said:


> Lovely looking ladies there. Well done! Can't wait for those buds to start swelling - I think you're looking at one crazy ass cola on that big girl.


I sure hope so. Thanks for stopping by!


----------



## DR. RESINTHUMB (Apr 16, 2009)

sounds good....great detail


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 16, 2009)

DR. RESINTHUMB said:


> sounds good....great detail


Thanks Doc! I try to give as much info/pics as I can. Still learning as I go...


----------



## lazy88 (Apr 16, 2009)

let me know if them seeds make it..I been looking for some new strains.Curious on where to go.so many choices..drchronics always worked.thought of trying something new..let me know eitherway


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 16, 2009)

lazy88 said:


> let me know if them seeds make it..I been looking for some new strains.Curious on where to go.so many choices..drchronics always worked.thought of trying something new..let me know eitherway


I've heard lots of good things about attitude, but like any of them its a risk. Check back with my journal, as I'll certainly post some pics when they arrive.

I did speak with them twice over the phone during the ordering process, and they are professional and courteous. I used pre-paid debit card purchased w/ cash, and processing of the order was IMMEDIATE!!! So far, they get an A+.

I thought it was interesting that they can legally sell the seeds under the pretense they are used for "souvenir" purposes only, --OR--for you to store/preserve strains in hopes of marijuana being legalized in your area sometime down the road.

Awesome!


----------



## Tatan (Apr 16, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> I've heard lots of good things about attitude, but like any of them its a risk. Check back with my journal, as I'll certainly post some pics when they arrive.
> 
> I did speak with them twice over the phone during the ordering process, and they are professional and courteous. I used pre-paid debit card purchased w/ cash, and processing of the order was IMMEDIATE!!! So far, they get an A+.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah ive heard good things about attitude as well.. thats where im placing my next order.


----------



## growforgood904 (Apr 16, 2009)

does attitude carry TGA seeds?


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 16, 2009)

I don't believe so--only bidzbay (or breedbay, its the same thing but called both names) and hempdepot carry TGA, as far as I know.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 18, 2009)

Been a little while since my last update...I've been slacking. Everyone is doing well. I gave tall girl and wide girl a feeding yesterday. Buds are getting bigger every day. Freaking awesome.

Also, I while inspecting for pollen sacks, I noticed a couple calyxes that looked rather ballish and less tear drop shaped. They had hairs growing out of them, no mistaking that, but maybe the little balls I _thought_ were pollen sacks before may have just been round calyxes that I plucked before they could sprout hairs.

Oh well, better safe than sorry! I'll get more pics up tonight after the lights come back on (if I haven't started drinking by then...)


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 19, 2009)

So I finally got my act together this morning and took some photos before the girls went to bed for the day. Let's take a look, shall we?

We begin where we usually do, with tall girl. Holding steady at 31" and filling in nicely. Still got the claw, don't think there is any fixing it, but the leaves are still green and I guess still helping the plant, so whatever.






Here's a close-up of her top. New leaves coming out a little droopy/claw-like still. I'm working on it.






Here's some lower bud action. I've made a concerted effort to illuminate the lower buds, and I think it's working pretty well thus far.






A close-up of one of the middle nodes. 






Next up--Wide girl. No longer exceptionally wide, but I don't know how else to describe her. Anyway, doing well. Note some yellowing of the bottom fan leaves...we'll address that in a moment.






Her top is looking very good. Nice flat leaves, minimal curling. Just shows how different strains react differently to the same stresses--we see virtually no clawing in wide girl, but some yellowing/spotting lower leaves. There's none of that in tall girl, but she's got the curl. Both have received the same lights, nutes, everything--they just take it differently. Just an observation.






Lower buds.






Middle growth.






Shorty. Not sure whats going on around the stem, but the curl is now apparent on her as well, even after the flush a couple days ago.






Still coming right along though.






Babies. Getting bigger by the minute (possibly growing faster on 24/0 cycle than my first batch did on 18/6...)






Now, back to the yellowing/spotting. I didn't notice this until today, though it's possible it was there for a couple days and I just didn't see it. Looking at my last few rounds of pics though there is no sign of yellowing or spotting. So perhaps this problem is severe and moving quickly through the plant...we'll just have to see how they look tomorrow. Anyway, here's a close-up of the affected area. I removed all tainted leaves after taking the picture.






I believe the problem is potassium (and possibly nitrogen) deficiency triggered by pH lockout. At least, this is what I've deduced from the various internet repositories of plant maladies I consulted. I think the problem stems from the recent flush. The pH of the water used was a little more basic than I think the plants like, which hasn't been too much of an issue before because the Tiger bloom tends to lower pH. But my pH testing methods to this point have been painfully inadequate to say the least.

However, I have just purchased a digital pH pen tester for $25 off ebay. So I will be CAREFULLY and diligently monitoring the pH of my nutrient solution as well as that of the runoff with every feeding/watering.

Now I need to know what is the next step. Should I flush again with pH adjusted water? Or just give a water-only feeding with pH adjusted water?

If the problem is deficiency from lockout, adding some soluble potash or something isn't going to help, right? The point is it's locked out, so I need to "unlock" it first?

Advice is greatly appreciated, especially before 8pm (EST) as that's when they will wake up and need some fixing!


----------



## DodgeDread (Apr 19, 2009)

lookin good jerry, just noticed this thread. +rep for ya. any idea what strain they might be? looking a little like white berry imo with the lack of side branching


----------



## DodgeDread (Apr 19, 2009)

seems i've repped ya before, i'll come back to that...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 19, 2009)

Thanks dodge! I've got no clue what I'm working with, just some random bag seeds. The stuff they came from was pretty good, but I'm pretty sure this is going to be way better!

Lights come on in a few, I'll post some pics in a bit.


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 19, 2009)

Hey Jerry, coming along well there. You've correctly identified the problem with the shorty. That is N and K def. Now you just have to figure out whether it is from ph lockout or under nute. The ph pen will help a lot but if I had to guess I would say it is simply slight under nute. Not sure exactly what feeding you did around the flush but if you flushed it clean and then left it for a day or two or more then it would start to show deficiencies pretty quick. I usually flush my plants and then give a light feed immediately afterwards. I probably should have mentioned that, oops. As long as you're back to your regular feeding program now and your ph isn't crazy out of whack then it should get better. That yellow leaf in the picture will never recover but the yellowing and gray patches should stop spreading to other leaves.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 20, 2009)

Happy 4/20 all!

Day 33 and the plants are doing well. The N and P deficiency appears to be spreading around the lower leaves. I gave another water feeding yesterday using distilled water and molasses with pH of 6.6. The runoff measured 6.7 for most, except shorty, who's runoff read 6.2. Not sure how/why, but I know I read it right.

Mared, I didn't read your post until today, but I'm pretty sure it was a lockout issue. The pH of the tap water I've been using is 7.9, so I'm pretty sure that did it. And I'd be shocked if the plants were not getting enough phosphorous, as I use the tiger bloom and big bloom in addition to high phosphorous Indonesian bat guano. So it could be a deficiency triggered by not replacing the nutrients flushed out, but I think it was the high Ph of the water locking out the nutrients.

I'll probably give a light feeding tonight at 8pm when they wake up just to make sure they've at least got a little bit of nutrients to draw from.

Otherwise, they look about the same. Shorty has started to spit new leaves out of her top bud, which is always an encouraging sight.

Here's tall girl continuing to fill out.






Close up of the top






The lower foliage is just riddled with little frosty budsites.






Next, Wide girl. Still growing and looking pretty fine, but the lower leaves are showing the deficiency much more than photo indicates. Turns out I didn't get a good shot of the affected area before the lights went out.






Here's wide girl's top. Pretty.






And shorty. Growing away. Still clawing a little with her upper leaves, but not too bad.






Seedlings. Some are looking great, others struggling a little. Not sure what is going on, but they got the same tap water as the other plants, so it could be screwing a couple of them up.






Much to my dismay, one of the cups started growing two seedlings (again). I knocked over one of the cups while planting, losing the seed. I tried to clean up the soil and stick it in some of the other cups. It appears the seed was in that soil and now growing in another cup.

Oh well, I've got so many right now I don't know what to do with them.

So the pH pen has already helped tremendously. Good investment.

That's it. I'm going to do some homework and wait for the lights to come back on tonight.


----------



## growforgood904 (Apr 20, 2009)

Nice update Jerry! Maybe u can keep the 2 seedlings together. maybe 2 females or a boy and girl and can do a breeding expeiriment. dont know just high and thinking!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 20, 2009)

Yeah, I'm just gonna snip one I think. Didn't work out too well last time around with 2 in one pot. And I'm not working with strains worth breeding (though I don't know that for sure as I have yet to grow them).

I just purchased a 400w hps ballast, fixture and bulb for $75! That's less than I paid for my 150w!

Righteous.


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 20, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> I just purchased a 400w hps ballast, fixture and bulb for $75! That's less than I paid for my 150w!
> 
> Righteous.


Wow, good deal. You're going to have more dank than you know what to do with soon, Jerry. 

And yea, 7.9 ph. That sounds like the problem. Good thing ph isn't as important in soil as it is in hydro. You're plants would have been dead weeks ago.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 20, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Wow, good deal. You're going to have more dank than you know what to do with soon, Jerry.
> 
> And yea, 7.9 ph. That sounds like the problem. Good thing ph isn't as important in soil as it is in hydro. You're plants would have been dead weeks ago.


Yeah, glad I'm not using hydro...lol

I've really only used the tap water for a couple weeks (since I got my brita filter), and before that it was all distilled. Either way, I'm glad I correctly identified/resolved the issue.

Thanks Mared!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 21, 2009)

Just a quick update...

Everyone looked good this morning at bed time. Just wanted to throw up a couple pics for discussion.

First, Tall girl is really starting to lean--much more pronounced in the last 24 hours I think. I'm thinking that top bud is starting to get too big for the stem, so I'll probably stake it soon (once I go buy stakes...or maybe I'll just tape a few skewers together, that would probably work). This is one problem I am OK with 






Tall girl's top. Getting heavy I guess...






Next, wide girl is looking fantastic. Still having some yellowing and spotting, but I gave them all a mini-feeding of high phosphorous bat guano and grow big for added nitrogen now that the pH is fixed and the nutrients should be "unlocked." I was planning on giving them a normal feeding today, but I think I'll wait now until tomorrow to put them back on their normal feeding routine.






Here's the yellowing/spotting of the lower leaves. Still going on, but hopefully won't be spreading any farther.






Another of the leaves






Her top, however, is doing fine just fine!






Shorty. Not much to say about shorty.






Didn't take any of the little ones. I'll do that with tonight's round of pics.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 22, 2009)

Well, not much to say. They got a watering yesterday. The pH of my distilled water, tiger and big blooms, and some molasses was 5.3. With no real way of raising the pH on hand, I just went ahead and used it. The runoff measured 6.2 for wide girl, 6.0 for shorty and 6.1 for tall girl. Next time I'll use filtered tap water for the feedings, as the pH of that stays around 7.9 on its own, so it won't lower as much during nutrient feeding.

Otherwise they look good. I staked up tall girl as she was getting a little top heavy. Probably going to have to double it up, as the skewers I used are bending a little. 

Everyone is doing well though.

Tall girl and her lean before I staked it






here she is with the stake. Sort of effective.






some lower bud growth on tall girl






and her top






heres a couple side shoots






wide girl. still spotty. gonna leave those leaves until they die off--I want to let the plant suck out everything it can from those already dead leaves before focusing its attention on the not so dead leaves...






Wide girls top. The top bud is getting wider by the day.






No pics of shorty, but you can see her in the background.

Also no pics of seedlings. I'm dumb and forgot.

That's it for today


----------



## DodgeDread (Apr 22, 2009)

lookin good jerry, they're filling out nicely. you got a time schedule for these or just whenever they're done, they're done kinda thing?


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 22, 2009)

DodgeDread said:


> lookin good jerry, they're filling out nicely. you got a time schedule for these or just whenever they're done, they're done kinda thing?


I'm certainly in no rush. Most plants flower 60-70+ days so I figure they've got about 4 weeks left (its been 35 days so far...).

We'll just see what happens. I'm thinking they are going to get nice and fat, especially once I get this 400watter in a couple days. I'm gonna harvest by the trichs for sure--I may snip a few buds when their cloudy and then leave the rest to get a little amber, just to see how different the high really is (couchlock vs. energetic high...i'm skeptical there is much of a difference, but this way I'll find out for myself!)


----------



## DodgeDread (Apr 22, 2009)

yeah i'm with you on that one, i've been smoking for years and i'd just say high is high. If you're tired in the first place it's gonna make you think it's the weed and vice versa if you have plenty of energy


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 22, 2009)

I agree with you guys. I have done quite a few tests of chopping one plant early and one of the same strain later to see the difference. I just end up getting high as hell either way LOL. I do notice the difference in high between strains but I can't tell a difference in the high from different harvest times of the same strain. After a while you will be able to look at the buds and see their ripeness. But before that you need a lot of practice examining the trichs and synching that to what you can see with your plain eye.

Also if you need to adjust ph, Jerry, it couldn't be easier. Use regular vinegar as ph down and regular baking soda as ph up. I used these for the first four or five months after I started growing and the plants looked great.


----------



## Babs34 (Apr 22, 2009)

*Looking supreme there Jerry. Looks like you have a predominately sativa there...I'm jealous. *
*I suggest taking some "tasters"---dear God, I see it coming---I'll be reamed for shit for suggesting that.---and to save the possible future "reaming".....I'm not suggesting the taste fest begin now.*
*But, hey...if you're going to do it, just snip it from the middle or the top.*
*I disagree that there is little or no difference in the buzz when harvesting a bit earlier vs. later. It's all a matter of taste and I loathe the couch lock affect. There is that "window" that you can easily miss out on in just a matter of days.*
*Definitely be looking for your earliest harvest no sooner than 63 days however. Sativas just generally do take longer.*
*So.......that being said, 4 more weeks, a minium 2 week cure...coffee in 6 weeks? <cheezy grin>*
*Seriously, relax.....not trying to bug you out here.*
*Your plants look beautiful! ```*


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks for your input everyone. I'm definitely gonna take some samples and just experiment for myself. Not yet though. Shorty and wide girl are just starting to fill out, and I'm thinking tall girl is close behind. I'm in no rush.

Mared, good call on the ph up and down. I knew vinegar and citrus juices that are acidic are good for lowering, but I didn't know baking soda to raise it up. Would have helped when I watered, but now I know!

Thanks for stopping by babs! Love to see new comers to the party. I'm not one for distinguishing sativa from indica quite yet, but a little sativa would be nice! And coffee in six weeks sounds perfect! 

I don't have time to throw up an adequate update until later this evening, but wide girl is still spreading her yellow/spottiness up the plant. I've fixed the pH, so maybe it will just take a little while to correct itself? I'm not going to get crazy and start adding a shit ton of phosphorous or nitrogen now, but maybe I'll step up the nutes a little next time just to be sure.

Also, my attitude seeds arrived! Unfortunately, I only have the blue cheese and the thai super skunk in my possession, as my buddy decided he was going to just keep the lowryder2/ak47 seeds that were way more expensive. I guess there was a slight miscommunication. Or something.

Either way, I'm happy with the blue cheeses, and I'll probably start them in the next week or so.

I've gotta get back to work. Better update coming later


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 23, 2009)

Well, don't tell your friend but usually autoflowers are a lot less potent than normal plants... usually. I don't know much about G13 Labs but as a recent attitude customer myself I should be getting some of the same beans as you Jerry! 5 X g13 Labs thai super skunk & 1 X fem. Skunk #1. I hope you keep as nice a journal on those as you have with this first bunch. The main part of my order was some Greenhouse Mix packs so I'll probably start with those but I'll be watching closely to see how your thai super skunk turns out. The blue cheese should be nice too


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 23, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Well, don't tell your friend but usually autoflowers are a lot less potent than normal plants... usually. I don't know much about G13 Labs but as a recent attitude customer myself I should be getting some of the same beans as you Jerry! 5 X g13 Labs thai super skunk & 1 X fem. Skunk #1. I hope you keep as nice a journal on those as you have with this first bunch. The main part of my order was some Greenhouse Mix packs so I'll probably start with those but I'll be watching closely to see how your thai super skunk turns out. The blue cheese should be nice too


Yeah, I did some research about autoflowering after I ordered and found they tended to be less potent...but crossed with ak47 i think increases potency and yield. 10 weeks from seed and grown in my veg closet was an enticing prospect, and it still could happen. We'll see.

Regarding those freebies--i did lots of searching to see if someone had a journal growing them out, and came up empty. so hopefully i can help contribute to the void of knowledge! My buddy took the fem skunk #1, but i've got all the thai super skunk and a feminized pure power plant, so those will get a devoted journal all their own of equal or better quality! I enjoy updating and sharing my experience to help others and get help myself. I'm happy to give back!


----------



## DodgeDread (Apr 23, 2009)

let me know about the link for your journal to the ppp and tss, i've got 2 thais flowering now~(2 went male) and 1 thai and 1 ppp vegging for clones. i'd be interested in what these freebies yield although i'm not counting on mega results, especially from the thais


----------



## Babs34 (Apr 23, 2009)

DodgeDread said:


> let me know about the link for your journal to the ppp and tss, i've got 2 thais flowering now~(2 went male) and 1 thai and 1 ppp vegging for clones. i'd be interested in what these freebies yield although i'm not counting on mega results, especially from the thais


 *Freebie PPP's??? That's definitely on my top 5 list.*


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 23, 2009)

DodgeDread said:


> let me know about the link for your journal to the ppp and tss, i've got 2 thais flowering now~(2 went male) and 1 thai and 1 ppp vegging for clones. i'd be interested in what these freebies yield although i'm not counting on mega results, especially from the thais


The seeds were free, so any results are more than you would have had before. How far into flowering are your thais?

I'll post the link in my signature when I get the new seeds up and running...might be a while though as I sort out my current situation.



Babs34 said:


> *Freebie PPP's??? That's definitely on my top 5 list.*


I don't know much about it, but I gave my buddy the skunk#1 because the blue cheese is half skunk anyway. Looks like I made the right choice then...awesome!


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 23, 2009)

Hmmm. PPP, that should be interesting as well. That's a Nirvana strain, right? I hear a lot of people happy with their Nirvana strains but it's got me curious. I have three Nirvana strains and none of them are that great IMO. I'm just wondering if I got bad beans or the happy people have never grown or smoked the best bud. The Nirvana gear for me produces healthy plants with huge frosty buds that look unbelievable in pictures but the smell, flavor, and potency is lacking. And it wasn't a one-grow fluke like I see a lot of the times where someone grows one sickly plant and says the strain sucks. I've been growing these particular strains for 7 months continuously and every plant has been healthy as a horse. I hold on to them mainly for the huge yields and keep other strains for my own consumption. So yea, I am just curious how so many people could love Nirvana and a couple of their strains have won Cannabis Cups but mine were just okay. For the record the Nirvana strains I have are Jock Horror, Bubblelicious, and Super Skunk.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 24, 2009)

Finally got my work finished to a point where I can post a good update. Plants are big and stinky. Tall girl is doing well, and shorty is starting to bulk out (much more slowly than the other two). Wide girl, on the other hand, is about to become a single cola with no fan leaves if things don't turn around soon. The yellow and spotting is spreading rapidly now up the plant. I was going to wait until yesterday to water again, but decided I need to be proactive about the situation. Using 1 gal distilled water, I added 4 tbsp big bloom, 2 tsp tiger bloom, 1 tsp grow big (vegging nutes--try to get some nitrogen back into that bitch) 1 tsp high-phosphorous bat guano, 1/4 tsp superthrive and a dollop of molasses. The pH of this solution was 5.4. I added about 1/2 tsp baking soda (thanks mared!) to bring the pH up to 6.5. I did not measure the runoff this time.

As I said, the girls could have lasted until tomorrow and been just fine, but I wanted to try and fix the problem now. Either way, her cola is just out of control now! I don't want to lose the fan leaves because they are generating the stuff necessary to make the flowers, but it looks like within a week they will mostly resemble those on the lower nodes. Anyway, take a look...

You can see the necrosis taking place at the bottom. I don't want to remove the sick leaves because I figure the plant is cannibalizing itself and sucking out whatever it can from the leaves.






View of the problem area






Top is getting fat...






Close-up...






Tall girl--her stake is failing her






Tall girl's top






Lower buddage






Shorty






Shorty again






Forgot about the seedlings. Oops.

I'm pickup up my 400w tomorrow! My girls are going to freaking LOVE me!


----------



## warisnottheanswer (Apr 24, 2009)

i know i came on late but lookin good my dude! and they do look sativa


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 24, 2009)

warisnottheanswer said:


> i know i came on late but lookin good my dude! and they do look sativa


thanks war! always room for some more observers around here. At this point I don't even care what they are, I just want to smoke them! I sure do enjoy the variety though...


----------



## warisnottheanswer (Apr 24, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> thanks war! always room for some more observers around here. At this point I don't even care what they are, I just want to smoke them! I sure do enjoy the variety though...


i feel u what they smell like?


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 24, 2009)

warisnottheanswer said:


> i feel u what they smell like?


Again, I don't really know how to describe the odor...the tall girl is so far the most pungent smelling, but they all smell good.

I'll be able to describe it better once I can smoke it!


----------



## Sleepless (Apr 24, 2009)

Sweet grow man! I'm gonna have to agree with warisnotheanswer in that they certainly do look like sativas, especially the tall one. You have some very good looking buds going on there.

I'm planning on starting my first grow this summer from some bag seed. Your plants look great!

Peace
Sleepless


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 24, 2009)

Sleepless said:


> Sweet grow man! I'm gonna have to agree with warisnotheanswer in that they certainly do look like sativas, especially the tall one. You have some very good looking buds going on there.
> 
> I'm planning on starting my first grow this summer from some bag seed. Your plants look great!
> 
> ...


Thanks man. Just goes to show bag seed is like a box of chocolates--you never know what you're gonna get.

Sorry, that was pretty lame.

Good luck with your first grow. I hope my thread can help!


----------



## DodgeDread (Apr 24, 2009)

To me they look like hybrids leaning more towards the indica side but i only say this cos i always thought indicas had the wider leaves and sativa were thinner


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 24, 2009)

Yea when I look at the "view of the problem area" pic those leaves look wide as hell. The fan leaves on all the plants look pretty wide. Another indicator is your flowering progress. A mainly sativa plant would still be stringy pistils at this age. Your buds are fattening rapidly. I would lean more towards indica on those but who really cares. It's weed and it will get you high.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 24, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Yea when I look at the "view of the problem area" pic those leaves look wide as hell. The fan leaves on all the plants look pretty wide. Another indicator is your flowering progress. A mainly sativa plant would still be stringy pistils at this age. Your buds are fattening rapidly. I would lean more towards indica on those but who really cares. It's weed and it will get you high.


I certainly don't care. It all smokes.

So I picked up my 400w hps...except it turned out to be a 400w METAL HALIDE! Doh. I talked to the guy and told him I would give him $30 and take it anyway, to which agreed! So I got a 400w MH ballast, bulb and fixture $30. Pretty solid deal.

But now I'm at a loss. I'm going to have to find a conversion bulb, and those cost a pretty penny...or find another HPS system.

I'll worry about it tomorrow.


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 25, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> I certainly don't care. It all smokes.
> 
> So I picked up my 400w hps...except it turned out to be a 400w METAL HALIDE! Doh. I talked to the guy and told him I would give him $30 and take it anyway, to which agreed! So I got a 400w MH ballast, bulb and fixture $30. Pretty solid deal.
> 
> ...


Jerry, I'm still envious of your deal. $30?!?!?!? That's the price of a oil change in your car for crying out loud. Some of the growers I know actually prefer MH for flowering. They know it won't give you quite the yield of an HPS but they are convinced the bluer light makes for more potent buds. Supposedly this mimics the sun's spectrum in higher latitudes. Whether or not this is true I don't know but either way that 400 watt MH will be way WAY better than the 150 watt (or was it 70 watt?) HPS you have. The conversion bulb will probably be at least $60, probably more like $80 if you buy it at a hydro store. I've even seen these dual-arc bulbs which have MH ans HPS elements which tells you that people do recognize that MH light is beneficial for flowering. Don't get that because they are crazy expensive but I would get the MH running while you source a conversion bulb.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 25, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Jerry, I'm still envious of your deal. $30?!?!?!? That's the price of a oil change in your car for crying out loud. Some of the growers I know actually prefer MH for flowering. They know it won't give you quite the yield of an HPS but they are convinced the bluer light makes for more potent buds. Supposedly this mimics the sun's spectrum in higher latitudes. Whether or not this is true I don't know but either way that 400 watt MH will be way WAY better than the 150 watt (or was it 70 watt?) HPS you have. The conversion bulb will probably be at least $60, probably more like $80 if you buy it at a hydro store. I've even seen these dual-arc bulbs which have MH ans HPS elements which tells you that people do recognize that MH light is beneficial for flowering. Don't get that because they are crazy expensive but I would get the MH running while you source a conversion bulb.


Yeah, $30 is pretty good. I've heard of people using MH the entire way through, but didn't know the benefits/drawbacks. If you think its better for my girls than my 150w hps I'll switch them up before the lights come back on.

I was looking at conversion bulbs online, and the cheapest I could find was something like $80. For that price, I could probably find a 400w HPS ballast, fixture and bulb. 

I had already driven ~100 miles to pick it up, so I figured I might as well try to get it for cheap after I realized it wasn't HPS. The guy was really nice (and lived in a pretty nice place, so I don't think $45 was even chump change to him) and just wanted it out of his garage! Nice guy for sure.

So, there is another 400w hps system I found, but it is twice as far away as the MH was, and that is lots of driving I'd rather not do. I'll look more into conversion bulbs, but it's a good drive to my hydro shop and I'm kinda worried about ordering one online (as they seem pretty fragile to make it through shipping). I'll be pondering the situation.

Regarding the plants, Wide Girl's condition is worsening by the day. I gave an intensive (but not excessive) feeding yesterday, and it seems to have had no effect. The yellow and spotting has moved almost entirely up to the top fan leaves, and will probably reach the leaves coming out of the buds by tonight. I don't know what to do. I've controlled pH and I don't think are deficient in these nutrients, but I picked up some Fox Farm Cha Ching fertilizer yesterday--its 9-50-30 or something like that, and it says to use the last 4 weeks of flowering (which is right where I am) so hopefully it will help. Maybe the tiger bloom/big bloom/guano/molasses comination just doesn't have enough phosphorous for the wide girl. Oh well, she'll be getting some more tonight!

No pics, they are already asleep. I'm gonna get to work, I'll update later.


----------



## Babs34 (Apr 25, 2009)

*Hey Jery, that stuff is super high in phosphate and postash, which is ok. I used the Beastie Bloomz 0-50-30 and had decent results. I was trying to recall what you had been using. It's always good to make a gradual kind of "build up" on nutrients in my opinion.*


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 25, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Hey Jery, that stuff is super high in phosphate and postash, which is ok. I used the Beastie Bloomz 0-50-30 and had decent results. I was trying to recall what you had been using. It's always good to make a gradual kind of "build up" on nutrients in my opinion.*


Yeah, I certainly don't want to burn them, but wide girl needs something different. 

I looked at the Open Sesame and Beastie Bloomz but you only use them for 2 weeks...seems like a waste for $30 each. At least the Cha Ching is used for 4 weeks, and its got a good amount of N to maybe stailize the yellowing.

If this most recent attempt doesn't cure wide girl of her problem, I don't know what will. It took about 3 days for the bottom fan leaves to totally dessicate and die, so in about a week I should have no fan leaves left if I don't fix this...fuck

And then what happens? Will it start attacking the flowers? If so I'd have to chop her a few weeks early.

Ugh.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 26, 2009)

I had a big long update all typed out and ready to go and my fucking browser crashed. So now I can only give the much shortened abridged version.

It's hot. Gonna be summer-like temps over the next 4 days. I'm going to get a portable air conditioner to put in the room today--found one for $150. Without it, I don't think I could continue to the operation through the coming hottest months of the year. So I should be getting that this evening.

I looked more into the conversion bulbs and found a "Gold" metal halide with enhanced red spectrum to aid in flowering. It will probably cost just as much as an HPS conversion bulb, so I haven't decided exactly what I'm going to do yet.

Pics...

We begin, as usual, with Tall girl. She is looking fine.






Top shot...






Starting to see some necrosis of the lower leaves on her too. Not as worried about this one though.






Here's a middle node shot. Hairs are turning orange!






Wide girl. Doing her thing. You can see the spread of the yellow/spotting up the fan leaves.






Here are the fan leaves on the other side. You can see some are just about ready to drop off. I'm not gonna snip them or anything--just let them do their thing.






Here's wide girl's top.






Here's a couple little side branches. The left on is from tall girl, the right is wide girl.






Finally, shorty! Her top cola has probably doubled in girth over the last week or so, and new growth is still being pushed out! She's doing great.






Shorty's top. Can't quite see the new bud growth, but you can see the leaves protruding awkwardly from one side. I think the node growth is finally starting to stagger.






One of shorty's side branches. Buds are bigger than I thought down there!






Finally, the babies. A motley looking bunch these are for sure. Some look better than others, and they all look way different from each other. Hopefully I'll get ~3 or 4 females from this group. I've had them on 12/12 for the last 2 days, so my plan is to sex them and get the females going so I can start my blue cheese, thai super skunk and PPP seeds!







So that's it. I'm picking up my a/c tonight, so I'll get the metal halide going in the flower room and prob move the hps to the veg chamber.

And then, its on!


----------



## warisnottheanswer (Apr 26, 2009)

lookin dam good jg


----------



## DodgeDread (Apr 26, 2009)

Whats your runoff ph jerry?


----------



## warisnottheanswer (Apr 26, 2009)

oh and beasties and chi ching are the shit and well worth it open sesame is a waste to me but back to what dodge asked "whats your ph jerry?"


----------



## Babs34 (Apr 27, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Yeah, I certainly don't want to burn them, but wide girl needs something different.
> 
> I looked at the Open Sesame and Beastie Bloomz but you only use them for 2 weeks...seems like a waste for $30 each. At least the Cha Ching is used for 4 weeks, and its got a good amount of N to maybe stailize the yellowing.
> 
> ...


 *Hey Jerry, I'm falling asleep here, but just wanted to stop by and check out your thread.*
*I don't know what your most recent attempt was to rectify the yellowing leaves.....but here's my opinion.*
*I view fertilizing weed in all its various stages like exercise.....yeah, I'm REALLY tired, LOL.*
*When you run, you gradually build up to the 7-8 mph(I'm not tall, so that isn't exactly slow for me)...this varies for individuals, as well as plants. Some begin with the brisk walk, while others jump straight to the jog, simply because walking is like being asleep to them......ok, I'm really tired, so I hope that made "some" sense.*
*I'll be honest with you. I rarely if ever follow anything "by the book." It's all about intuition for me. I've taken on plants proclaimed as dead and made them show plants......and never researched the "whys and hows" to make it happen.*
*I'm not actually "seeing" your plant and touching it to give you any solid advice. The yellowing leaves could be indicative of oh so many deficincies, and/or over/under watering. Try not to over analyze it.*
*Back to my "exercise analogy"...*
*While getting your heart pumping at an adequate rate to burn calories efficiently, etc....it is also just as important to bring that heart rate back down--and not so abruptly at that.*
*As I said the gradual build up is of the essence in my opinion, just as the few weeks before harvest are.*
*You are using some fairly strong nutrients. For approximately a week, I would suggest using something like seaweed/fish emulsion, and oh maybe a "bit" of molassas.*
*Sorry, I don't measure ANYTHING..*
*I didn't know Beasties was "by the book" only supposed to be used for two weeks. I used it for more like 4 weeks with good results. But bear in mind, I didn't measure it.*
*In some cases, less is more.*
*These damn nutrients in hydro stores are ridiculously priced in my opinion, but I'm not going to lie......I want to try them all.*
*My guess is that if you continue on the same regime, your leaves will yellow all the way straight up that plant, and that yes...your harvest time will be dictated much earlier than you would prefer.*
*Go with something light, like the fish emulsion, for a bit and see what effects it has on the plant. I assure you it won't hinder its growth in a negative way. The seaweed and fish emulsion, along with molassas, will adequately provide your babies with the required nutrients....and who knows?.......maybe even slow down those yellowing leaves climbing up that stalk.*


----------



## Marcus66 (Apr 27, 2009)

Excellent journal. I appreciate it, as I'm on my first grow and my girls seem to be about the same age as yours (kind of funny how it sounds like we're talking about our children.), or at least going through the same stage of development. I just found your journal and feel much better now that I've read through it. Your children look great; I hope your sick child gets better, and I wish you the absolute best of luck, and now will be following as closely as I can. If you don't mind me asking, what camera are you using to take the pictures? I should be getting my Canon XS in the mail soon and can take good pictures of my plants now, something I couldn't wait to do. Thanks again for the stellar journal.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 27, 2009)

DodgeDread said:


> Whats your runoff ph jerry?


 I pH'd my nutrient solution to 6.6 going in, and the runoff registered 6.8. Both right where they should be (I think).



Babs34 said:


> *
> Hey Jerry, I'm falling asleep here, but just wanted to stop by and check out your thread.*
> *I don't know what your most recent attempt was to rectify the yellowing leaves.....but here's my opinion.*
> *I view fertilizing weed in all its various stages like exercise.....yeah, I'm REALLY tired, LOL.*
> ...


Thanks for the advice babs...my real concern is that the other plants don't appear to be showing any negative impact from the nutrients, just the wide girl. Having said that, they could probably use a short break from the nutrient-filled diet I have them on. I'll give them another water only feeding in a couple days (just fed with Big Bloom, Tiger Bloom, Cha Ching and molasses) and then go from there. You're exercise analogy is priceless!



Marcus66 said:


> Excellent journal. I appreciate it, as I'm on my first grow and my girls seem to be about the same age as yours (kind of funny how it sounds like we're talking about our children.), or at least going through the same stage of development. I just found your journal and feel much better now that I've read through it. Your children look great; I hope your sick child gets better, and I wish you the absolute best of luck, and now will be following as closely as I can. If you don't mind me asking, what camera are you using to take the pictures? I should be getting my Canon XS in the mail soon and can take good pictures of my plants now, something I couldn't wait to do. Thanks again for the stellar journal.


Thanks for stopping by Marcus. I'm using a Nikon Coolpix 10megapixel. Nothing too special, but it does pretty good.

I love hearing that my journal actually helped someone! Good luck with your grow, and post some pics when you get your camera!



warisnottheanswer said:


> oh and beasties and chi ching are the shit and well worth it open sesame is a waste to me but back to what dodge asked "whats your ph jerry?"


Yeah, that's what I thought about the open sesame. And the beastie blooms is probably fine, but I figured to just go with the Cha Ching for now.

Brief Update:
Got my portable a/c yesterday. Thing is freaking huge. Kept the temps around 81 all night though, so I'll take it!

While feeding yesterday, I noticed a rather unsettling situation--ANTS in the PLANTS! Seems the little red fire ants (I think...they could have been black) had been living in the soil of tall girl, and when I watered they all came to the surface in a hurry! I killed as many as I could as they came up, but undoubtedly there are still some there. I read that cinnamon is a good deterrent, so I poured a layer of it over the top of the soil. I also noticed a couple gnats flying around, so I think I'll get some sand and cover the top 2" of the pot to keep them out.

Any other suggestions for the ants? I've got the little baits all over (in the grow space, under the grow space, near the grow space, outside the grow space...I even put one directly on top of the soil of tall girl after I applied the cinnamon) but I don't think they care for it when they've got perfectly good soil to live in. My space is clean, but I think they can get in rather easily from the outside. They could only have been there for a day or two since my last watering, but already there was a good number of them.

Also, I removed the yellowing leaves from wide girl. Some of them just fell off with the slightest touch, some required a little more force. I think it stressed the plant a little, as she was the slightest bit droopy this morning before the lights went out (which is unlike her). No pics yet...have to wait until tonight...I've been working on papers and presentations and trying to finish this semester...only one more week!


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 27, 2009)

yo Jerry, if your leaves fall off with a gentle tug then they were about to fall off anyway. The nutes you are using are reputable and should be working. Perhaps there is something else going on. It looks like your run of the mill deficiency from undernute but if your ph is right and you are nuting at label strength it should not be getting worse like that. Maybe the ants are attacking your roots or something. Do whatever you can to get rid of them. I've never had ants but have battled fungus gnats plenty. I know plenty of tricks to kill those suckers if you need them. The sand should help.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 27, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> yo Jerry, if your leaves fall off with a gentle tug then they were about to fall off anyway. The nutes you are using are reputable and should be working. Perhaps there is something else going on. It looks like your run of the mill deficiency from undernute but if your ph is right and you are nuting at label strength it should not be getting worse like that. Maybe the ants are attacking your roots or something. Do whatever you can to get rid of them. I've never had ants but have battled fungus gnats plenty. I know plenty of tricks to kill those suckers if you need them. The sand should help.


As far as I could tell, the ants were ONLY coming up from Tall girl, and she doesn't have any deficiency. I did lots of searching last night on how to get rid of them, and cinnamon was mentioned a few times. We'll see how it works. My room no longer smells like weed though...just lots of cinnamon.

I only saw a couple gnats, but it only takes a couple to lay eggs. I'm going out to get sand right now. If that doesn't work, I'll seek your advice on ways to deal with them. I hate bugs so much.

The room in which I am growing used to be the back porch, but has since been converted to my bathroom, and wasn't constructed the most solidly (I rent...). Point is, there is ample opportunity for bugs to find a way in. I've got a cat and I used to put his food in there until the ants found it. Once I moved it they were gone. Unfortunately, I can't move the plants.

I've got traps all over, but I'll probably call an exterminator to spray around the exterior of the house and under the porch (I don't like them spraying inside because of the cat...and because of the plants).

Regarding the leaves...most of them came off with little effort, but some required a tug and a couple got snipped. There was no green left on these leaves whatsoever, but they were still alive.

Gonna set up my MH today too (if I have enough time). Still haven't decided on a bulb. Been looking at the Eye Hortilux HPS conversion--45,000 initial lumens is by far the highest (but more expensive). A sunmaster "warm" 3000k metal halide has 38,000 lumens and is at least $30 less than the hortilux (hortilux=$99, sunmaster=$70).

I'll get some more pics up tonight


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 27, 2009)

Cool. Did the a/c you got have an exhaust duct you need to route to outside? I was considering one but I can't really run a duct like that where I live without arousing suspicion. Hey I also got my seeds in today including the G13 labs stuff. New genetics rocks.


----------



## Babs34 (Apr 27, 2009)

*Ants in your plants? LOL, that sounded funny for a second. Sorry. I've never even heard of that with an indoor. I actually SHUDDERED when you mentioned the gnats. Be prepared for WAR. They aren't leaving anytime soon. I should have made a video while battling those little bastards...funny as hell, but moreso frustrating as shit!!! Sand is good for "now." Don't use bombs like I've seen so many suggest on RIU. Those are to be used in places that are not to be occupied for a long period. You live there, right? I don't know why so many suggest that as a solution.*
*Anyway, war Jerry........those bastards almost became the death of me. Every time I just KNEW they were completely gone.......there they were!!!! I'd see that little spec flying unexpectedly right in front of my face. I clapped and CLAPPED. They don't DIE!!!*
*Now, here is one suggestion I've never seen on RIU---other than from myself. Once you get that feeling of cockiness that you've slayed them all....humble yourself, you are in for a rude awakening. I have a magnifying glass that I used to inspect my plants--every last inch mind you, at least twice a day. In particular, look under those leaves. You can actually see those lil "things" coming to greet the world and take their first breath.*
*If you really don't want to see the damage they do, you're going to have to get tedious! Stock up on some q-tips and dip it in rubbing alcohol. Run along underside of leaves (or wherever they are uninvited)---it kills them ON THE SPOT......guts and all on display on that q-tip. Sorry, I get kind of demented while dealing with these!!*
*Solid advice here.....don't wait a single day to address this.*
*OK, so once I finally just knew, positively--- no questions asked that I had WON the battle, guess what? I just last night witnessed while cleaning my windows 5 or more of them flying around in between my window and screen!!!! ACKKKKK.......they're so small and I'm paranoid that they will somehow find their way in. The only thing I can think of as to why they are even there is that maybe while my windows were open a couple of weeks ago, they laid eggs there? I don't know. I don't care. I am officially at war again.*


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 27, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Cool. Did the a/c you got have an exhaust duct you need to route to outside? I was considering one but I can't really run a duct like that where I live without arousing suspicion. Hey I also got my seeds in today including the G13 labs stuff. New genetics rocks.


Yes, it my understanding that all portable air CONDITIONING units require an hose. I've got a small window that is way too small for an a/c unit but is fine this (6") tube. Now, there are air COOLERS that use frozen ice packs and are not too unlike the DIY one I tried...

The reason they need this tube, as I found out yesterday, is because the exhaust air put off by this thing is HOT! You can touch the tube and just feel the heat. Thankfully, the a/c blows pretty hard so it doesn't make the room any hotter. But you need _somewhere_ to vent it--I don't think it even needs to be a window or the outdoors, just somewhere that doesn't matter if it gets a little hot.

One problem I noticed today is the WHITE tube allows a lot of light in my once totally and wonderfully pitch black bathroom. But i'll be getting something to fix that today as well.

Also, the unit I got is large and only blows straight ahead (albeit with great power). It was tough for me to position it so it blows into the grow room because of the additional depth from the tubing. But I don't fucking care, because it is gonna be a nice, controlled climate for my blue cheese babies when I get them rolling.

Glad your seeds arrived too! Quite a good feeling I know!



Babs34 said:


> *Ants in your plants? LOL, that sounded funny for a second. Sorry. I've never even heard of that with an indoor. I actually SHUDDERED when you mentioned the gnats. Be prepared for WAR. They aren't leaving anytime soon. I should have made a video while battling those little bastards...funny as hell, but moreso frustrating as shit!!! Sand is good for "now." Don't use bombs like I've seen so many suggest on RIU. Those are to be used in places that are not to be occupied for a long period. You live there, right? I don't know why so many suggest that as a solution.*
> *Anyway, war Jerry........those bastards almost became the death of me. Every time I just KNEW they were completely gone.......there they were!!!! I'd see that little spec flying unexpectedly right in front of my face. I clapped and CLAPPED. They don't DIE!!!*
> *Now, here is one suggestion I've never seen on RIU---other than from myself. Once you get that feeling of cockiness that you've slayed them all....humble yourself, you are in for a rude awakening. I have a magnifying glass that I used to inspect my plants--every last inch mind you, at least twice a day. In particular, look under those leaves. You can actually see those lil "things" coming to greet the world and take their first breath.*
> *If you really don't want to see the damage they do, you're going to have to get tedious! Stock up on some q-tips and dip it in rubbing alcohol. Run along underside of leaves (or wherever they are uninvited)---it kills them ON THE SPOT......guts and all on display on that q-tip. Sorry, I get kind of demented while dealing with these!!*
> ...


I was trying to be funny with the ants in the plants thing--like the old game ants in the pants? I guess old is relative depending on your age...

I had no idea those little fuckers could require an all out war! If you used the sand, how did they manage to keep coming around? That's supposed to prevent them from laying eggs...they are just so small who knows how they get in. Mared said he has some tricks of the trade to get rid of them, maybe he would be willing to share if you asked him nicely...lol

I've got plenty of rubbing alcohol and q-tips, so if it really starts to get bad I'll try this. But I've only seen a couple in the grow room, and only last night when I started watering tall girl. I think they might like her the most because she often sits in the back where there is slightly less air blowing around.

I'll get some pics up tonight and let you know how my first battle with the little bastards is going


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 27, 2009)

I have tricks for _controlling_ the gnats. It seems with coco at least it is impossible to get rid of them completely. It's not that bad though because they don't really harm the plants too much and they never really leave the grow room. So the tricks I can think of right now include neem oil sprayed on top of the soil and keeping the medium on the dry side. It seems the wetter the environment the more those phuckers thrive. Also you can put slices of potato on top of the soil and the gnats will prefer laying their eggs in the potato rather than the soil. Throw the slices out every few days and repeat the cycle a few times. This is really the most effective method I have found. I only have to repeat when I buy new coco. To kill the ones that are already flying I like the hot shot pest strips as well as a little secret weapon called sundews. They are actually carnivorous plants related to the venus flytrap. They have long sticky tentacle like branches that trap and digest the gnats. I have a whole bunch of em.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 27, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> I have tricks for _controlling_ the gnats. It seems with coco at least it is impossible to get rid of them completely. It's not that bad though because they don't really harm the plants too much and they never really leave the grow room. So the tricks I can think of right now include neem oil sprayed on top of the soil and keeping the medium on the dry side. It seems the wetter the environment the more those phuckers thrive. Also you can put slices of potato on top of the soil and the gnats will prefer laying their eggs in the potato rather than the soil. Throw the slices out every few days and repeat the cycle a few times. This is really the most effective method I have found. I only have to repeat when I buy new coco. To kill the ones that are already flying I like the hot shot pest strips as well as a little secret weapon called sundews. They are actually carnivorous plants related to the venus flytrap. They have long sticky tentacle like branches that trap and digest the gnats. I have a whole bunch of em.


Sundews eh??? Sounds like something I will look into (and something that could help you too Babs!) I like the potato idea as well.

I actually read another post about 2 months ago recommending those hot shot strips. I got 2 of them (only opened one though...they are like $6.50 a pop!) and stuck one in my grow space about 3 weeks ago. I may need to move it a little closer to the back where the problem seems to be occurring though.

On a side note, I've been thinking about getting some coco coir and growing a couple plants just to see how it works--seems to have worked pretty well for you Mared!

Maybe I should just get good at soil first...I'm overly ambitious when it comes to this growing thing!


----------



## Sleepless (Apr 27, 2009)

Hey! I've been following your grow for a while and it's great! Def my favorite on RIU. Every time I visit i forget to subscribe, but not this time!

I'm gonna start my first this summer (I think I may have said this in an earlier post?), a bit larger but I'll be stuck in the same boat every newbie grower is stuck in. 


Peace and Love
Sleepless


----------



## Babs34 (Apr 27, 2009)

*Alright, well here I sit tired AGAIN. So I'll try to make sense...sigh.*
*I want you to know my battle was SO much more extensive than I wrote. I initially used an organic spray from Lowes''''can't remember the name right now. Apparently it was only to be used once. After using, I peeked in at my plants hours later and thought for sure they were on their way to death. Yet they perked up soon after. Every two weeks, I was doing the neem oil treatment. I tried the potatoe slices.....never saw any gnats lured to them.*
*I had left a glass of OJ (out of sheer laziness) on my kitchen counter one night and awakened to find several floating around in it the next morning. They say beer works as well. Thinking that would significantly help, it became the daily ritual for WEEKS. I even noticed that while rooting something in water, they drowned themselves in that. There weren't even roots that had begun to form, so WHY they went there.....don't know. I think it's safe to say they aren't the brightest creatures.....yet they are infamous for tormenting the true gardner.*
*That hot shot strip IS exactly the one I had bought. Note the instructions to leave in an unoccupied place. I take that as don't put it in your home where you are actually breathing and occupying space.....so, I took it back.*
*Note also that I have a ton of house plants, but NEVER had spider mites/gnats until I "added on to my garden." I'm convinced those lil bastards prefer weed........not all roots are created equal to them as far as I'm concerned.*
*I treated ALL of my plants at the same time.*
*Understand that when applying that sand on the surface, you are only addressing the gnats underneath. You have basically suffocated them with that technique AND created a barrier so as for new ones not to enter.....but let me tell you, one little grain of dirt is exposed, they WILL find a way. Water a few times, that thick layer of sand somewhat diminishes. I've watched them.....they fervently hunt to get down there. HOWEVER, that is not the only place they exist. They take their little breaks it would appear and fly around....and when they land, God only knows how many eggs they've laid in that time....and where. The most likely place where they would lay their eggs is on the underside of the leaves.....thus, the rubbing alcohol. Odd thing is I don't know how long the actual gestation period is. Like I said earlier, I obsessively scrutinized these plants DAILY......when I said at least twice, count that as more likely 10 times daily. I spent NUMEROUS hours making certain there was NOTHING left on that plant. Only a day or two later......eggs would appear again. It just had to be from that one or two that was off flying around and only later decided to once again lay some eggs..sigh.*
*If you look very closely under a magnifying glass, you can actually see a lot of them coming alive........they very slowly start squirming around. Give them enough time (which I don't)....they're off flying around, and thus the vicious cycle starts over......again and again and again.*
*Someone said they did little damage to their plants.......I beg to differ!! They literally suck the life out of your plants. It's gradual, but left for only a short time will at the very minimum all but totally destroy your "crop." Those first showings of crystals will literally disappear......swag for you, in other words. Ha, I'll see if I can find a picture of my first grow. You want to see what gnats left unattended for even a short period of time will do? I'll be the laughing stock of RIU. That was my first indoor. Your first grow looks great, and it's not worth losing it to little flying specs in the night.*
*LOL, the ants in the pants thing came long before my time.....and yours too I'm sure.*


----------



## Sleepless (Apr 27, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Alright, well here I sit tired AGAIN. So I'll try to make sense...sigh.*
> *I want you to know my battle was SO much more extensive than I wrote. I initially used an organic spray from Lowes''''can't remember the name right now. Apparently it was only to be used once. After using, I peeked in at my plants hours later and thought for sure they were on their way to death. Yet they perked up soon after. Every two weeks, I was doing the neem oil treatment. I tried the potatoe slices.....never saw any gnats lured to them.*
> *I had left a glass of OJ (out of sheer laziness) on my kitchen counter one night and awakened to find several floating around in it the next morning. They say beer works as well. Thinking that would significantly help, it became the daily ritual for WEEKS. I even noticed that while rooting something in water, they drowned themselves in that. There weren't even roots that had begun to form, so WHY they went there.....don't know. I think it's safe to say they aren't the brightest creatures.....yet they are infamous for tormenting the true gardner.*
> *That hot shot strip IS exactly the one I had bought. Note the instructions to leave in an unoccupied place. I take that as don't put it in your home where you are actually breathing and occupying space.....so, I took it back.*
> ...


I will certainly remember to watch out for gnats.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 27, 2009)

Sleepless said:


> Hey! I've been following your grow for a while and it's great! Def my favorite on RIU. Every time I visit i forget to subscribe, but not this time!
> 
> I'm gonna start my first this summer (I think I may have said this in an earlier post?), a bit larger but I'll be stuck in the same boat every newbie grower is stuck in.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the kind words! Mistakes are part of the learning experience, so as long you expect to make them it works out alright.

Glad to have you along for the ride, good luck with your first grow!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 27, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Alright, well here I sit tired AGAIN. So I'll try to make sense...sigh.*
> *I want you to know my battle was SO much more extensive than I wrote. I initially used an organic spray from Lowes''''can't remember the name right now. Apparently it was only to be used once. After using, I peeked in at my plants hours later and thought for sure they were on their way to death. Yet they perked up soon after. Every two weeks, I was doing the neem oil treatment. I tried the potatoe slices.....never saw any gnats lured to them.*
> *I had left a glass of OJ (out of sheer laziness) on my kitchen counter one night and awakened to find several floating around in it the next morning. They say beer works as well. Thinking that would significantly help, it became the daily ritual for WEEKS. I even noticed that while rooting something in water, they drowned themselves in that. There weren't even roots that had begun to form, so WHY they went there.....don't know. I think it's safe to say they aren't the brightest creatures.....yet they are infamous for tormenting the true gardner.*
> *That hot shot strip IS exactly the one I had bought. Note the instructions to leave in an unoccupied place. I take that as don't put it in your home where you are actually breathing and occupying space.....so, I took it back.*
> ...


Well shit Babs! You have some history with those little bastards! You've got me a little more concerned now than I initially was about this situation. 

I got some sand today, I'm going to throw it on the plants right now and then take some pics for the soon to come update. Back in a few.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 28, 2009)

So as promised, here is the updated status of my situation. First, my a/c keeps tripping the surge protector I have it plugged into. It doesn't quite reach the wall, so I'll have to get a heavy-duty extension cord instead. I hope it isn't going to trip the breaker in the house if I bypass the surge protector...maybe I should get a better surge protector? Eh, we'll see. For tonight I shut off all the cfls and t5's, leaving only the orange glow of the hps. I can't wait for my hps conversion bulb to arrive...

Which reminds me, I bought an Eye Sunlux 360w HPS conversion bulb. I am quite confused however, because the Sunlux is somehow different from the Eye Hortilux conversion bulb, which was $20 more expensive. I compared the spec sheets for both and found them to be identical. Same lumen output, use life, everything to a T. If anyone is interested, check out www.eyehortilux.com and www.eyelighting.com. Find the 360w hps conversion bulb and compare technical data sheets. Either way, 45,000 initial lumens will be shining on the girls in the near future.

On the little critter front...I applied a layer of sand over the top of all 3 girls. I only observed 2 or 3 gnats flying around, and ZERO ants. I guess that cinnamon really did the trick! I just applied it liberally and then gave a few misting sprays to hold it together.

Otherwise, I think they look good for 40 days of flowering. As I said yesterday, I removed the yellowing fan leaves from wide girl and she looks way different. The yellowing/spotting appears to have slown down a little, so I'm hopeful the worst has passed.

Anyway, here's the good stuff...

Mixin it up and starting with shorty today. Looking good. Never too much to say about her. Except her buds are going to be thick and tasty!






Here's wide girl sans a few fan leaves. Though the upper leaves are getting a little spotty and lighter green, the pace has dramatically slowed and things seem more stable now. She looks nice though.






Her top.






Some lower bud growth. Much of it is newly exposed thanks to the absence of the fan leaves.






A couple middle stem buds.






We end today with Tall girl. Still tall.






Delicious topness






Here's a couple of her middle stem buds.






Some very nice lower bud development. I've had 3 cfl's ~1inch away from this bud and this side of the plant. seems to be helping. Too hot today though 






Babies. They've been on 12/12 for about 3 days, and starting to strech. I think a couple are getting topped soon...I want 4 colas!






Here's tall girl and her cinnamon with ant trap






All three covered in sand







So situation stable right now. Just need to get the a/c situation worked out, but then I'll be good to go. I don't understand, the stupid a/c worked fine all last night and yesterday. Oh well, I'll call sears or someone.

On a not at all related note, I'm going to see Kings of Leon tomorrow outside Raleigh. Not sure if anyone is familiar with these guys, but I saw them a couple years ago and they freaking rocked. I'm pumped!

Thanks everyone for tuning in and don't hesitate to share your thoughts--this journal is for the benefit of everyone, not only myself (though I do get all the just rewards)


----------



## Flower Pot Men (Apr 28, 2009)

Fantastic ! 

It really has em looking forward to mine ...

Great Thread .defffinately subscibed .TONS of usefull info here ..
Just wonder when did u start knipping fan leaves off? only when yellow ?

Iam still leanring ...but people do advice to cut leaves off ...when yellow or touching soil (avoid mold ?)

King of Leon ...WOOHOOO Great gig seen em 3 times now ..(Iam in europe)
You ll have a great time !!!!!


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 28, 2009)

Hmmmm.... maybe Babs and I are dealing with different bugs. My gnats and plants have peacefully coexisted for over a year. At one point I had a swarm flying around the top of my flower room but still the plants looked fine. The only reason I get rid of them is so they don't fly into my eyes and mouth when I'm in there. Spider mites will phuck up your plants bad I know but the gnats seem to be just chillin to me. Also you won't be able to see anything in the potato slices. That's where they lay their tiny eggs. The actual bugs you can see won't get trapped by the potato.

Jerry, I like the idea of moving to coco. I've never grown soil but I don't see how it could be any easier than coco. Coco is like a sponge and will let you change its properties very quickly. So if your plants don't like something all you have to do is flush and you are back to square one. I don't imagine that the deficiency issue you have with the one plant would have lasted this long in coco. Plus coco will give you hydro size growth while keeping the flavor of soil-grown.


----------



## skeeterleg (Apr 28, 2009)

Hey JG! 
Looking good my friend! Awesome buds&#8230;how much longer ya think?


----------



## Sleepless (Apr 28, 2009)

Hey Jerry, do you have a microscope type thing to check out your trichromes? it looks like it's getting to be about that time : )


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 28, 2009)

Flower Pot Men said:


> Fantastic !
> 
> It really has em looking forward to mine ...
> 
> ...


Thanks Flower Pot! I only plucked the leaves that were totally yellow and spotted. If you go back a couple pages to my previous update, you can see which ones I removed. I probably could have left a few on there (they were yellow but didn't come off without a little tug, where others I barely touched and they fell right off), but I got tired of looking at it and now it freed up some light for those lower buds. I don't recommend snipping any unless they are really dead though. I also find my lowest level of leaves tend to get pretty yellow, probably because when I feed, the nutrients tend to run over some of the smaller leaves (accidentally), so I think it's like foliar feeding with way too high of a concentration, so they die. Maybe I just made that up, but it makes sense in my world.

And I'm pumped for the show tonight! Glad you're into them. This will be my second go around so I'm looking forward to it!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 28, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Hmmmm.... maybe Babs and I are dealing with different bugs. My gnats and plants have peacefully coexisted for over a year. At one point I had a swarm flying around the top of my flower room but still the plants looked fine. The only reason I get rid of them is so they don't fly into my eyes and mouth when I'm in there. Spider mites will phuck up your plants bad I know but the gnats seem to be just chillin to me. Also you won't be able to see anything in the potato slices. That's where they lay their tiny eggs. The actual bugs you can see won't get trapped by the potato.
> 
> Jerry, I like the idea of moving to coco. I've never grown soil but I don't see how it could be any easier than coco. Coco is like a sponge and will let you change its properties very quickly. So if your plants don't like something all you have to do is flush and you are back to square one. I don't imagine that the deficiency issue you have with the one plant would have lasted this long in coco. Plus coco will give you hydro size growth while keeping the flavor of soil-grown.


 Huh. Maybe they are different bugs. Or maybe they are different species of gnat, each affecting the plant differently? Either way, I don't want them around period. I hate finding bugs in my house...We'll see how the sand is working when I get back later tonight.

I like the coco concept for just that reason--no nutes or additives so you really have control over whats going in and out. You say it gives plant size like hydro...does that mean hydro plants are supposed to get bigger? I never knew what the appeal was to use hydro or aero or whatevero...seems like more crap to buy and more possibility of things going wrong to me, but TONS of people on here seem to like it. I'd much rather use coco myself.



skeeterleg said:


> Hey JG!
> Looking good my friend! Awesome budshow much longer ya think?


Thanks skeeter. I'm 40 days into flower, so I'm thinking at least another 3 weeks. But it's all dependent on when the trichomes say it's time.



Sleepless said:


> Hey Jerry, do you have a microscope type thing to check out your trichromes? it looks like it's getting to be about that time : )


I've got an old(er) 30x radioshack scope that happened to be at my parents house when I was out visiting them last. I'm sure they weren't using for anything and probably didn't even know they had it, so it came home with me! I've used it a couple times to check out various buds I've acquired to smoke, and it is good fun!

I'm not sure exactly how I'm supposed to check the trichs on the plant though...am I supposed to just hold the scope up and hope I can focus and hold my hand steady? Because that seems like a bad idea. I can probably rest it on the bud without doing too much harm to it, but I certainly don't want to remove any leaves or buds just to check the trichs.

Also, I plan on harvesting a few buds with only cloudy trichs and then waiting for the remaining buds to get ~50% amber. I want to compare the "energetic high" to the "couchlock stone" that one is supposed to experience.

Thanks for stopping by everyone! More news at it happens


----------



## DodgeDread (Apr 28, 2009)

you could take a small leaf off the bud and check the trichs on a steady surface


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 28, 2009)

DodgeDread said:


> you could take a small leaf off the bud and check the trichs on a steady surface


That's what I figured. I'll just play around with a few things and see what I can see.

Thanks Dodge!


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 28, 2009)

Yea Jerry, coco is a soiless medium, so essentially it is hydro. Hydro plants will flower faster and typically yield more but the downside is they don't retain as much flavor when smoked as soil grown buds. Soiless mediums like coco are kind of a hybrid between the two as I understand it. My buds are plenty tasty


----------



## ck2009 (Apr 28, 2009)

first of all i have to say sorry to the host of this thred i've looked all on how to start my own thred with no luck ............. this is my first grow im running a 400W blue spetrume light which is 6700k and i also have a red bulb which is 2700k there both 400w im running this light in a attic grow room which i have made my self it is roughly W3m x D1m x H1.5m im currently running the blue light bulb this is over 8 cutting which i ahve brought from a mate defo female clones the room is covered in maylor and im running 2 6" fans and a 12" fan also 4" tt100 extractor fan which is on 24/7 im growing in boibuss which is an organic grow media . im finding it really hard to cool the room down to atleast 85 degreas mines up near the 100s (96 - 99) ive tried filling a bucket full of ice cubes and butting this near the fans so the cold air can be moved about the room but this only brought it down to 92 degreas which is ovisly far to high any ideas on how i could cool my grow room without spending more lots more money on intake fans as i've already spent nearly £300 which all seems worthless if i cant get the heat down lol any help will be welcomed many thanks.


----------



## skeeterleg (Apr 28, 2009)

Im down with the trich experiment. I would love to hear your determination&#8230;thanks for you help...Good job JG!!!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 28, 2009)

ck2009 said:


> first of all i have to say sorry to the host of this thred i've looked all on how to start my own thred with no luck ............. this is my first grow im running a 400W blue spetrume light which is 6700k and i also have a red bulb which is 2700k there both 400w im running this light in a attic grow room which i have made my self it is roughly W3m x D1m x H1.5m im currently running the blue light bulb this is over 8 cutting which i ahve brought from a mate defo female clones the room is covered in maylor and im running 2 6" fans and a 12" fan also 4" tt100 extractor fan which is on 24/7 im growing in boibuss which is an organic grow media . im finding it really hard to cool the room down to atleast 85 degreas mines up near the 100s (96 - 99) ive tried filling a bucket full of ice cubes and butting this near the fans so the cold air can be moved about the room but this only brought it down to 92 degreas which is ovisly far to high any ideas on how i could cool my grow room without spending more lots more money on intake fans as i've already spent nearly £300 which all seems worthless if i cant get the heat down lol any help will be welcomed many thanks.


It seems like you've got it pretty much down except for the heat. Well, growing in an attic in the summer is just asking for trouble (are you in the northern hemisphere...I'm assuming the UK because you listed your money in pounds). I would return or sell back as much fan-related stuff as you can and just get an air conditioner. If you don't have a window, you could get a portable a/c unit (I'll take pics of mine later) but it still needs to vent outside through a duct/tube.

I'm not sure what light cycle you're running, but only run the lights for 18 on 6 off and try to keep the "off" time to the hottest part of the day.

But in an attic in the summer I think you'll need air conditioning. Sorry.

Good luck with your grow


----------



## Marcus66 (Apr 28, 2009)

I'm really not trying to start any stuff by saying this, but I have a younger brother who is graduating this year, and his writing looks just like yours. Writing with periods really will really help with the flow of your writing. Sorry, Ck2009, I don't have any help to give on the fans. Good luck all.


----------



## DodgeDread (Apr 28, 2009)

well and truly hijacked lol


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 28, 2009)

DodgeDread said:


> well and truly hijacked lol


Indeed. It's all good though. Just means people are reading my journal, which is pretty awesome.

Just got back from the show...it fucking rocked (excuse my language, but it did!)

Gonna pull out the girls for a little inspection and photo op shortly...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 29, 2009)

Much to discuss this morning, so lets get right to it!

First, bugs. I took the plants out last night for some inspection and photographs, and much to my surprise did not see a single gnat. It must be the sand. Maybe I caught them early enough? Don't know, but it's a nice start. Also, have not seen a single ant since I used the cinnamon. They must REALLY hate that stuff! I worry that they still could be tunneling around in my soil like they do, but its been a couple days since the cinnamon application so maybe it deterred them enough to just move out! So, the preliminary assessment is positive, but I'm not so brash as to think they could/will not return. I'll continue looking into deterrents, as it there is a long summer about to set in.

Next, A/C. I figured out why it kept tripping...in an attempt to preserve the stealthness of my operation, I blocked the exhaust vent with a piece of cardboard. Not right up against the vent, but between it and the window so you wouldn't be able to see this glowing tube sticking out of an otherwise black window at night. Even though air could still escape, it obstructed the flow too much for the a/c, causing it to shut off before it damaged itself. So I moved the cardboard, and what do you know, it worked like a freaking champ. But now there is a glowing tube...so I took some black t-shirts and wrapped them around the exhaust tube (if you can get a non-translucent tube, like maybe some normal aluminum ducting, that would work too, but this is what the thing came with). This prevents the tube from glowing, so now it just looks like a tube sticking out of a window. I'm going to get a black curtain or something (maybe speaker cover cloth, but I haven't tried to find any yet) that allows air to pass but through which you cannot see. Moral of the story--the condensers in these things put off a tremendous amount of heat, and need appropriate ventilation.

Not sure if I mentioned this, but I called Eye to ask about the difference between the hortilux and sunlux conversion bulbs. She said the sunlux tended to be used more for commercial lighting and not growing, while the hortilux is marketed for indoor garding. I explained that I could find no difference in the technical spec sheets, but she didn't know anything about the bulbs themselves. I went line by line through those damn sheets and could not find a difference, so I'm pretty sure they are exactly the same. Maybe I'll call the Sunlux people and see what they have to say about it. It should be on its way though...

Plants. They look good. Nothing really new developing. Starting to see lots of orange hairs. But don't take my word for it...see for yourselves.

Let's start with Tall girl. She's coming right along. Top bud starting to bulk out a little. Getting a little heavy for my reinforced skewer-stakes, so I may have to reinforce them yet again. Or just get a metal stake or something.






Top cola and first couple nodes. Smelling good these days too.






Here's a slightly closer shot.






A couple of tall girls side buds...i've had 3 cfls ~1inch from these for about a week, and they are really benefitting from it. Keep in mind they are 2' from the HPS at the bottom, so without these cfls they would probably look more like wide girls bottom buds (as you can see in the next few pics).






Next, wide girl. She's gonna turn into one gigantic bud I think...nice...






View of the top






The lower budsites are smaller on this girl than tall girl, probably because those massive fan leaves were obstructing them until their recent demise. Hope they get a little bigger before its all said and done.






I haven't take a good "in situ" shot with all the lights I'm currently running, so here it is. You can't see the HPS but its just barely out of the pic. Shorty gets some extra cfl love because she is so far away from the HPS. I do prop her up on a box to make her at least a little closer.






Can't leave out the...teenagers? Man have these things started to get HUGE since I switched them 12/12. They vegged about 1 week before I switched them, and that was 4 or so days ago. Already I'm starting to see genitalia on one of them, but its too soon to tell male or female. Seing as its only been 4 days, and males tend to show first...






And here's R2D2's long lost cousin R420...only blows in one direction, but man does it blow. Its enough to stabilize the entire bathroom, including the veg closet which is no where near the path of the cool air. It's only 7,000 btu, so I think that means it uses less energy than a 9,000 or 12,000 model, right? Either way it is plenty for my needs and then some.







So there you have it. Things change a little every day, sometimes for the good, sometimes just to keep me on my toes. Things are looking up right now though! Each day is one day closer to VINDICATION FOR ALL MY HARD WORK! And it really has been hard work. It's funny, I started with a $10 reflector and blue coated halogen "grow" bulb...now its become a 24/7 full time operation.

If you're gonna do something, might as well do it up right!


----------



## mared juwan (Apr 29, 2009)

Bravo, Jerry. Looking good.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 29, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Bravo, Jerry. Looking good.


Thanks Mared. You deserve a ton of credit yourself for all your help!


----------



## Sleepless (Apr 29, 2009)

Could you tell me a little more about your ventilation setup? I'm planning mine and finding cheap ventilation is wicked hard, so any advice would be GREATLY appreciated. Right now I have an opportunity for a 205 CFM axial fan for $30 including shipping. Are there any cheaper/more-powerful-but-still-cheap out there?


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 29, 2009)

My ventilation is pretty non-existent, sorry to say. Just my R420 robot air conditioner and 2 12" oscillating fans. Now that I've got the a/c I probably don't need any additional vents. I'm pumping plenty of cold air in there!


----------



## skeeterleg (Apr 30, 2009)

Looks AWESOME JG! 

In the beginning you said it was some good bag seed. Have you figures out what they might be? 

Did you trim them to get one main cola like that or is it the strain? 

Great job bro


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 30, 2009)

skeeterleg said:


> Looks AWESOME JG!
> 
> In the beginning you said it was some good bag seed. Have you figures out what they might be?
> 
> ...


Thanks Skeeter. Still no clue on the strains...we had a brief discussion about that a couple pages back--Wide girl is most likely indica dominant based on her wide leaves...Tall girl has slightly narrower leaves, so she's probably a good mix...and Shorty...well, I'm starting to think shorty is Sativa dominant for sure given her narrow leaves...but when she was a seedling (and before I totally fucked her by overnuting/overwatering) her leaves were pretty wide. I don't know shit about telling one strain from another, but hopefully its just one more thing I'm going to learn along the way!

As far as trimming the main cola...I think you're referring to wide girl. No, I the only trimming I did was to remove the dying fan leaves. Otherwise, I just let them do their thing. You can go back a couple pages and see what she looked like before the fan leaves started dying off. She looks great now though!

I woke up too late today to get some pics up...sorry ya'll. It'll have to wait until 8pm I guess...stay tuned...


----------



## skeeterleg (Apr 30, 2009)

JG I think I know what they are: They are "SOMEGOODSHITJGStrain" !!! lol


----------



## growforgood904 (Apr 30, 2009)

Damn Jerry thats gonna be one big as cola!!! That thing is towering!!!! freaking awesome man!!!!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Apr 30, 2009)

skeeterleg said:


> JG I think I know what they are: They are "SOMEGOODSHITJGStrain" !!! lol


I sure hope it turns out to be that SOMEGOODSHITJG! I gave the top cola a gentle "squeeze" the other day just to feel how dense it is (VERY is the answer) and my fingers smelled like they had been stuck up a skunks ass! It usually smells pretty good, but damn, it made me tingly inside!

My girl and I were going to make up our own names for them...before I screwed up shorty she was going to be "T-REX" because, believe it or not, she was WAY bigger than the rest of the plants. It hurts my soul every time I think of that, because I really think she could have been something special. Oh well, at least I kept her alive and got to her produce something in the end!



growforgood904 said:


> Damn Jerry thats gonna be one big as cola!!! That thing is towering!!!! freaking awesome man!!!!


Thanks GFG! Every time I pull them out for inspection and pictures I'm truly amazed myself! If it continues to grow together it could feasibly be well over a foot long bud! Awesome!


----------



## skeeterleg (Apr 30, 2009)

They will be JG, I have no dought!

I am just amazed how the main stem is so freaking long while the other limbs stayed short. Its cool as shit!!!

I loaded some new pics today. If you get bored check out my little scraggly weeds. lol


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 1, 2009)

Sorry it took so long, I've been busy and sleeping instead of updating. I know, I'm a slacker. Anyway, let me give a quick run down. Things are going swimmingly. Little ones are coming along, big girls are happy with their A/C...and I'm happy they are happy. I saw a couple gnats today, but no large concentration of them or anything. We'll see.

Lets get right to the meat and potatoes of the post, shall we...?

Shorty. Looking good.












Wide Girl. Her top bud is starting to grow new little projections (seen better in the next pic...freaking awesome!












Tall girl. Doing well.





Her top






Colorful middle buds






Finally, one of the side buds







That's it. Sorry its rather terse, but I'm tired, so I'm going to crash now. Enjoy the photos.


----------



## Sleepless (May 1, 2009)

Lookin good! I think that you're going to be VERY satisfied with your yield, those buds look scrumptious. No worries about sleep, bro. I'm sure we could all use a little extra. on that note, goodnight.

Sleepless


----------



## Babs34 (May 1, 2009)

*Awesome job with the sand...time to incorpoorate molassas into your feeding schedule...if not done so already? Soon you should be stepping back from the nutrients and feeding with only water (you aren't using tap, are you?) AND molassas..........wait til we talk about "tea."*


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 2, 2009)

Sleepless said:


> Lookin good! I think that you're going to be VERY satisfied with your yield, those buds look scrumptious. No worries about sleep, bro. I'm sure we could all use a little extra. on that note, goodnight.
> 
> Sleepless


Thanks man, I was so tired when I posted those pics and now I'm awake at 6am...go figure.

I'll be happy with any yield, so if its big that will just be a bonus!



Babs34 said:


> *Awesome job with the sand...time to incorpoorate molassas into your feeding schedule...if not done so already? Soon you should be stepping back from the nutrients and feeding with only water (you aren't using tap, are you?) AND molassas..........wait til we talk about "tea."*


I actually thought about giving them a water-only feeding, but its so hard for me to NOT give them nutrients. So they got some big bloom and tiger bloom. The feeding schedule says to only give nutes every other feeding...I am really trying to throw as much as I can at these girls now to see how much they can take. 

As for molasses...well I've been giving them that with every feeding since I switched to 12/12. I just pour it in with the other nutrients, shake it up, and voila! I've been using ~2 tbsp/gallon, though I don't like to actually measure because that stuff is possibly the stickiest substance I have ever seen and doesn't come off the measuring spoon. But the girls seem to like it enough.

I've been using distilled water most of the way through. I purchased brita filter not so long ago to use for this, but the pH is really high, like 7.9! So its fine for using with the Tiger Bloom, because that stuff really lowers pH, but unless I add some vinegar it's not good for watering (I think that caused some lockout issues before...).

So, I think I'm on the right track. I probably should not have given them nutrients yesterday. I didn't use more than the recommended dosage, so I'm not worried about burning them, but I am slightly concerned about salt buildup. But they just got flushed 2 weeks ago, so I'm sure they'll be fine. If not, I've learned another valuable lesson


----------



## kingdick (May 2, 2009)

have you ever grown outdoors?
if so maybe you could give me a few tips


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 2, 2009)

kingdick said:


> have you ever grown outdoors?
> if so maybe you could give me a few tips


I have not, sorry to say. I would think it is much easier than growing inside however. Just be careful during the night cycle that your plants aren't near any street lamps or exterior home lights as this could stress the plant and turn it hermie. Good luck


----------



## Babs34 (May 2, 2009)

*Sorry Jerry. I tend to get a little caught up with some threads and their pictures, lol. *
*No lie, for those few minutes I'm peering at the pictures, it's almost as if they are my own personal plants sitting right next to me.*
*Damn, I really do need to start a new grow. I just don't know if I'm willing to go through all that hard work (and money) again just for the strain I have.......bagseed. *
*My next grow simply MUST be a sativa!*
*No matter what, your harvest will be rewarding. *
*And BTW, I say growing outside is even more difficult. Having to sneak around to care for your plant.....ward them off from being exposed to even more bugs.......and the fact that deer just LOVE the plant. I'll take the indoor grow any day.*
*However, no matter what anyone says......nothing compares to natural sunlight. Nothing.*


----------



## Tatan (May 2, 2009)

Thats very nice Jerry, congrats, your plants are looking beautiful. Looks like Im back in time to see your harvest


----------



## mared juwan (May 2, 2009)

Yea Tatan, I was wondering where you went. Good to see you back. 

Jerry, plants are looking wonderful, man. And I think that was the first ever use of the word "terse" in an RIU post LOL.


----------



## Tatan (May 2, 2009)

Yeah.. I missed you guys, my computer was broken, but now im back.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 2, 2009)

Good to have ya back Tatan! Hope you're computer problems are behind you.

Thanks Mared...lol


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 3, 2009)

So it's 2:30 in the morning and I don't really know what day of flower it is. I would go back and see what I said last post, but I don't care. It's around day 44 and thats close enough.

Plants are budding away. Getting stinkier by the day. I'm about ready to start checking out some trichs in the next day or so. Exciting.

So I've got a concern now with tall girl. It seems her leaves are dying off much like wide girl, but for tall girl I'm concerned because it is the leaves coming out of the buds that are dying! I'm concerned they will die too far into the bud for me to remove them, leaving some leaf material that could potentially mold. I want to just snip them now, but wanted some input first.

Here are some pictures. Enjoy.

Shorty. Doing well. Getting thick. The main cola is one solid bud top to bottom.






Close close up of her top.






Wide Girl--her top bud is getting quite wide itself...






A nice close up of her top






Here's a top-down shot showing the leaf decay situation. You can see it in the above image as well. They just all keep on dying.






Tall girl. Doing fine. Except her leaves are all dying off.






Here's a top-down shot showing the leaf death on her as well. I just don't want the leaves to die inside the buds and create an opportunity for mold.






Some lower buds






Close up of one healthy lower bud...






And the babies. One male gone, just waiting for the rest. All are going to get topped/fimmed very shortly...probably once sex has been determined. I may throw them back in veg for a little while after topping to let the colas get a few nodes on them before flowering for real.







I think the sand made watering a real problem, as the water tended to channel towards the edge of the pot and down. Even pouring slowly didn't really help. It's nice to keep out the critters, but I don't think wide girl got enough at yesterday's feeding, and might be wilting every so slightly today because of it. I'll try to work something out tomorrow when I water again (but with on pH'd distilled water).


----------



## Tatan (May 3, 2009)

Hey Jerry. I think the yellowing of the leaves is normal, althogh it seems to be a little too soon. As far as the molding once the leaves die... I would think the leaves might just dry off instead of getting mold...


Shorty is still my favorite... looks like the main bud is really getting thick... but damn.. all your plants have really nice buds now... Wow Jerry theyve filled out a lot in thje time ive been gone... very nice bud.


The young one are looking nice as well, congrats.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 3, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Hey Jerry. I think the yellowing of the leaves is normal, althogh it seems to be a little too soon. As far as the molding once the leaves die... I would think the leaves might just dry off instead of getting mold...
> 
> 
> Shorty is still my favorite... looks like the main bud is really getting thick... but damn.. all your plants have really nice buds now... Wow Jerry theyve filled out a lot in thje time ive been gone... very nice bud.
> ...


Thanks man. The more I thought about it the more I realized the leaf material desiccates as it dies off, meaning there won't be much left to mold as you said. And it does seem pretty early to be losing leaves, but I think I had a slight pH issue while you were away (seems like you were gone forever!) and it led to some lockout issues. I have since resolved that issue, but the damage has already been done. I think I just pushed the leaves towards their eventual demise a little quicker. The buds still look awesome though, so for its all good!

As for shorty...yes she is a thing of beauty indeed! She is really just thick the entire way down the stem, and her little side buds are a couple inches long themselves. I lamented a few days ago fucking her up so bad during her adolescent days, as she would probably be as big as the other girls right now and producing twice the yield had she not been stressed. But at least she is producing something (and something stinky at that)


----------



## Babs34 (May 3, 2009)

*For what it's worth, I still say you should back off from the heavier nutes and try to up the N just a bit. Also, the blackstrap molassas would serve as a decent source for what I think may be a magnesium defficiency. Molassas is also a good source of iron, calcium and potassium.*
*While using your scope to check those trichs, check the underside of those leaves!...better to know of even a single gnat now, than later. You will want to take care of that ASAP should it be a bigger problem than you originally thought. You won't want to deal with that problem with your next grow.*
*Definitely try to keep those fan leaves healthy as possible in their last days, because once they go---that bud will dry out right on its stalk and lose its ability to show you anything worth looking at under that scope.*


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 3, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *For what it's worth, I still say you should back off from the heavier nutes and try to up the N just a bit. Also, the blackstrap molassas would serve as a decent source for what I think may be a magnesium defficiency. Molassas is also a good source of iron, calcium and potassium.*
> *While using your scope to check those trichs, check the underside of those leaves!...better to know of even a single gnat now, than later. You will want to take care of that ASAP should it be a bigger problem than you originally thought. You won't want to deal with that problem with your next grow.*
> *Definitely try to keep those fan leaves healthy as possible in their last days, because once they go---that bud will dry out right on its stalk and lose its ability to show you anything worth looking at under that scope.*


I've been using the molasses, and I went pretty sparingly on the nutes last time. They will be getting some water later this evening but there doesn't seem to be much more I can do.

There has been a gnat or two still lingering, so I'll check the under side of the leaves too.

I was wondering what would happen once all the fan leaves are gone...but there are still lots of other leaves around the stem (at least here are for wide girl).

Also, I noticed by humidity ballooned to 60% in the middle of last night. It was back to around 40% by the time they went to bed however. I'll keep an eye on that situation too.


----------



## Babs34 (May 3, 2009)

*One last suggestion...aerate your soil.*


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 3, 2009)

I actually think I do a pretty good job of that too--I still like to use my moisture meter as an added check, and every time I create a thin pencil-sized hole where the probe went in. So, its kind of like aerating it, yes? Maybe?

How would you propose I go about doing it more efficiently?


----------



## mared juwan (May 3, 2009)

Hmmm. I wouldn't be going sparingly on nutes at this time. Your leaves are showing all the signs of N, P, and K deficiencies. Less nutes is only accelerating the situation.

And it is true that deficiencies will allow mold to take hold more easily.


----------



## Babs34 (May 3, 2009)

*First and foremost, you won't ever see me using ph terms, measures, ETC. I don't "measure" anything. If my room "feels" humid, I up the fan/AC. If my soil "feels" moist, I don't water......feels dry, obviously, I water. LOL, sorry, I'm very oldschool. No meters, no timers, no thermometers to "measure" the heat.*
*I just LOVE to have my hands in the dirt. I tend to constantly "aerate." Whether it's by putting my hands in the dirt to mix around or placing a thin instrument (sterilized first) to aerate.*
*Your soil could very well be compacted. I never have that problem simply because I play with the dirt so much. I think it's wise to occassionally add things to your soil to loosen it up......perilite, vermiculite, sand. There are so many ways to play around with your soil....and your plant will thank you too.*
*Before I was even able to find my local hydro store, I hit up another local gardening shop and found one last bag of phosporous that was going to be discontinued. It had an extremely high level of it too....which is why they likely are discontinuing. I thought WTH........I'll just add a "pinch" to my soil. It certainly didn't hurt it. I read the advised measurements, but I just always go lower and build up from that.*
*See, if that plant was mine, I'd have already changed the pot once or twice by now. I am the queen of transplanting....NOTHING dies or is ever wounded under my care. I can take a newly sprouted seedling (and I do mean NEW) and handle it without the slightest damage.*
*OK, damn, I need to get some more sleep....I'm just rambling as usual.*
*Yeah......play with your soil. Mix it up, add some aerating agents. Don't worry so much about disturbing the root system. It's solid at this point. *
*Just reach in around the outer most part of your pot and pull out some of that old soil without disrupting the roots. Your roots shouldn't be exposed on the top layer anyway. In fact, if you find while doing so that it's a bit moist 2 or 3"down......let it sit like that for awhile prior to adding a fresh layer.....not under heavy lights---maybe in the tub with a few flourescents. Allow a fan for further circulation. *
*It may be that you have some sort of fungus. Changing out some of that soil, aerating and using just a drop of hydrogen peroxide with a very light watering will aid in fixing that.*


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 3, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Hmmm. I wouldn't be going sparingly on nutes at this time. Your leaves are showing all the signs of N, P, and K deficiencies. Less nutes is only accelerating the situation.
> 
> And it is true that deficiencies will allow mold to take hold more easily.


I didn't really go sparingly, I just didn't use the Cha Ching twice in a row, that's all. I still used 4 tbsp big bloom and 3 tsp tiger bloom...

Do you think I should give them another round of nutrients and not just water when I feed tonight? If they are still deficient I don't want to make it worse...I've got no problem giving them a big drink of some 9-50-10 Cha Ching with all the other accouterments...

So lets discuss how they could have become deficient. 1) pH lockout. 2) not enough nutrients 3) salt buildup?

I may have experienced some of #1 to start all this, but I have stabilized to ~6.8, so that's probably not it. Unless it just never fully recovered from that situation, which seems false becasuse the buds are still growing...

#2 just seems crazy, because I've been giving recommended doses of big bloom and tiger bloom, along with molasses, high phosphorous guano and superthrive once in a while. The only way I think they could be deficient is because I wasn't the beastie blooms or cha ching until last week, both of which are super high in P and K.

#3 is possible, but I just flushed the plant when this started happening. I haven't really been administering nutrients every other feeding though, its been more like every feeding. But I should have flushed out all the salts, 1 or 2 consecutive feedings since won't create that much buildup, right?

Ugh, I don't know. I'm sure it has been my fault in some way (duh) but I'd like to narrow it down so I can improve on the next round and prevent this whole deal from happening again.

Thanks for you're help and input everyone


----------



## Tatan (May 3, 2009)

Babs, most of us are new at this.. and measuring things is a great help.

Jerry, I don´t know man... from what you say you have been feeding them plenty... I would not think that they are deficcient in nutrients.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 3, 2009)

So here we are...another day another problem. Sigh.

The buds are looking great on all of them, though the leaves are still not as nice. Not too much deterioration since yesterday, but its not like they are getting better. I gave a full-out watering today, and in the process discovered a colony of ants living in wide girl! I guess I only treated tall girl with cinnamon last time because she was the only one with the ants. Well, not this time. I covered them all with a thick layer, including tall girl, even though she didn't have ants. I think it will be effectively remove them though, as it worked almost instantly last time.

As they drained, I took a close gander at the runoff and what did I see, but some little white organisms swimming around. You were right Babs! Those motherfuckers laid eggs and have been happily living under the sand. I've only seen one or two flying around, but I guess there were more I wasn't seeing. So now I'm at a bit of a loss. I'll deal with it better tomorrow.

Anyway, here are some pics from today...

Tall girl






More tall girl...dying leaves and all






Lower healthy buds






Central buds...lots of orange






More lower buds






wide girl






her top






Close up






Shorty







her side buds...these things are massive






another side ubd






close up of main cola






That's it. They were fed Cha Ching, Big Bloom, Tiger Bloom, Molasses, and high P Indonesian bat guano (and some baking soda to raise pH). The pH of the concentration was 6.8, the pH of the runoff was between 7.0 and 7.1.


----------



## Babs34 (May 4, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Babs, most of us are new at this.. and measuring things is a great help.
> 
> Jerry, I don´t know man... from what you say you have been feeding them plenty... I would not think that they are deficcient in nutrients.


Tatan, I never suggested that Jerry, or anyone for that matter "not" measure....only merely wanted to point out that I will never be one to suggest an "exact recommended dosage"......simply because I go by instinct.
I'm sticking with my diagnosis.......for the most part anyway.
It appears that the leaves rusting up began after flushing. After a flush (which requires that you use 3x the H20)........the plant is going to be significantly DAMP afterwards. Notice he began seeing the gnats? That's likely why. 
My "theory" that his plant has a fungus problem is not off base.
Some people have more problems than others with gnats.....thus my obsession with the topic. You don't want that problem and it sounds like you don't have TIME for that problem either. It's not to say that I do either, but I work from home and am here the better part of the day to scrutinize it closely.
I recall Jerry you saying you use Foxfarms and Bat Guano.....a couple of other things as well?
I just want to point out that Fox Farms is a chemical fertilizer. While using organics, you can be a bit over zealous with your feeding schedule and get away with it. The same does not stand true with chemical fertilizers.
Right now, I only have the Fox Farms Grow Big for vegetative growth. Its directions for feeding (as I said, yes...I DO read the suggested feeding schedule, but again, I do NOT adhere to them.) With the Grow Big, they suggest 2-3 teaspoons per gallon every 2 weeks as a HEAVY feeding. I don't know how often Jerry you are feeding, but my guess is that you are attempting to pump just as much as you possibly can in hopes of getting some really fat bud......thus my statement that "less is often more."
While some may have insignificant problems with gnats, others lose their entire crop to them. I will say from experience (and do recall I am the transplant queen).........THAT after having transplanted, fighting the dirty specs, and then harvesting.......I've seen firsthand the damage they cause. My root ball e.g. was three times the size from transplant to when I harvested and pulled up the roots.......GNATS.......not spider mites. Gnats eat those roots---taking all that hard work of developing them with expensive nutes and tos'ing all of your hard work down the drain. Granted, you can still get some decent smoke (depending on when they invade and how you treat it), BUT your goal was to get the ultimate bud, yes?
No amount of nutrients you feed them now Jerry will improve those damaged fan leaves. I don't care what you feed them. Those damaged leaves are just that....damaged. Your goal is to not let them completely die quite this early in its budding stage. Keep your humidity low and increase your ventilation.
Just ask yourself this question...
Did you feed the heavy dosage as suggested on the bottle?....or the every watering? And then ask yourself just "How often was that watering?"
If it is in fact a fungus, those leaves will only serve to infect other leaves or promote bud rot. From what I see, those leaves are quickly dying.
For the first time in my life, I was prompted to recall the saying, "Let's get to the 'root of the problem.' And I say that is exactly the problem.....the roots. By removing that topsoil, you are addressing more than one problem and possibly correcting them all. Again, you can't 'fix' those contaminated leaves. You can only slow down their destructrion at this point.
I suggested areating, along with allowing the roots to dry out a bit--so to not cause root rot, get rid of possible larvae on the soil surface, AND loosen up the soil, which in itself, can cause so many of the problems associated with ph lockout. 
Going back to my exercise analogy, same holds true for most things. When you begin taking certain meds, you introduce small doses, gradually increasing. You don't want to shock your body when attempting to stop taking that med.....you gradually decrease the dosage. SO many analogies I could make in life while comparing life to plants.....a plant is after all life. It's all about balance. Trust me, I have plenty of SHIT to balance in life too.


----------



## ck2009 (May 4, 2009)

hi mate i've taken on board what you have said and removed/sold the fans i brought for my room, then brought a a/c unit. on top of all this i have also changed my bulb set up as i was using 1 x 400 watt hps bulb now i gone for the cfl grades i brought 2 x 250 super grow bulbs which are not cheap at all lol these have cost me no less then £100 and with the a/c unit costing me another £99.99 i've not had much change from £200 lol (well all i can say is you live and learn from your own mistakes). 

I've managed to get the temp down to roughly between 82 - 70 degrees do you think that 82 is still a lil high it only reaches this temp when hots days which at the moment i've only really had 2 nices days out of the past 7 days (good old english weather).

The plants under the new cfl bulbs seem to be going ok hard to tell at these early stages i started veg stage roughly 8 days ago all from good heatly cuttings over these 8 days they have prob about doubled in size to about 12 - 15 cm so with this being my first grow i really dont no if the cfl bulbs are slowing the veg stage down or not.

any help on this with would be great


----------



## Tatan (May 4, 2009)

One thing i noticed from the pictures is that the small leaves around the buds seems to be doing well overall. Its mainly the fan leaves. So the question.. is if its gnats or a fungus, why isnt it attacking all leaves.


----------



## skeeterleg (May 4, 2009)

LOOKIN Good there JG. Hope you leaf issue works out for ya but I wouldnt sweat it. The buds look fanfreakintastic!!!


----------



## Tatan (May 4, 2009)

skeeterleg said:


> LOOKIN Good there JG. Hope you leaf issue works out for ya but I wouldnt sweat it. The buds look fanfreakintastic!!!


 
Omg.. just smoked a tester bud from my pink plant .. damn its nice.. so forgive if ive said this before... but anyway... I agree, I would be really bummed out if the buds were the ones looking messed up, but its the fan leaves... Your buds look very healthy. I would trade yellow fan leaves for buds like that any day...
Just look around other threads...


----------



## skeeterleg (May 4, 2009)

Right ON Tatan!!!

I have to go see this pink plant! lol


----------



## Babs34 (May 4, 2009)

*I wouldn't want to find out what would happen to the smaller leaves, but on a more positive note, his buds are looking gorgeous!*
*Let's just say that if Jerry needed to harvest early, he wouldn't be stuck with some shitty smoke. *
*A pink plant? That sounds TRIPPY. I'll have to check that one out later.*

*Seriously Jerry, you must have serious patience. Personally, I'd of been taking some lil tasters already.*
*I know, I know......a big no. (not really though---just depends on where you take it from and when) *
*I'm also queen of taking the tasters, as I refuse to buy the stuff and pay 100 bucks plus for a quarter......that's insane. ESPECIALLY WHEN IT HAS NO SEEDS. The pride and joy of the seller-----PFFT.*


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 4, 2009)

Thanks everyone. I've got my last exam tomorrow, so I don't have much time, but I wanted to comment briefly.

Go back and look the last 2 or 3 updates...there are close ups of the buds showing it is not ONLY the fan leaves. For tall and wide girl, it is also attacking the leaves coming directly from the buds, which is why I'm a little concerned. Wide girl has tons of other inner foliage that appears unaffected, but the bud leaves are dying off.

I don't know if its gnats or fungus or what the hell the problem is. The gnats don't seem to be doing much currently, and I only see 1 or 2 flying around ever. But there were a LOT of this little white guys moving around in my runoff...I will def. need to keep up with the sand thing, as after a couple waterings it has become dislodged and probably allowed more little fuckers in the there. It seems like it will be a constant battle to keep them out, but I'm game.

Regarding transplanting/aerating the soil...I clearly see the benefits of doing this, but I am so close to being done I don't want to make things _worse_ if I screw up. I will consider this though for the next round of plants...

I'm going to keep doing what I can to kill any and all bugs I can find and deal with it as it progresses. Probably gonna get some neem oil just to put around the surface of the soil anyway...it can't hurt right?

And Tatan, I expected nothing less from pinky. Just wait until you get that pink widow...man oh man I am jealous!


----------



## mared juwan (May 4, 2009)

Yea that's phucked up Jerry. Your gnats are not like my gnats. I've never had white things in my runoff. That has to be your problem. You've been feeding with plenty of food at the right ph but the leaves still deteriorate. It has to be something in your rootzone, whether it be the ants, gnats, larvae, bacteria, something is screwing with your roots. Probably a bit too late to do anything except try to kill whatever's in there but make sure you scrub down the growroom with neem oil or something before you move new plants in.


----------



## skeeterleg (May 4, 2009)

Damn J. wish i could help ya bro. All I got to offer is this: http://www.weedfarmer.com/cannabis/tables_guide.php
May not help now but might in the future.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 4, 2009)

Thanks for the chart skeeter, that's nice to have just as a general reference.

Mared, you're right about scrubbing down, but I actually think I may to take it one step farther and completely seal off my grow space except from the front. I'm thinking just seal the space up as best I can so there is only one way in and one way out. My space is so tight that it will be a challenge, but it appears I need to do whatever I can to keep the bugs at bay. I'm definitely going to use some neem oil and even bleech and just scrub it down though. I also got some kitchen-safe "hot shot" spary or something that using natural pesticides...if its safe around the kitchen its probably good with the plants. I'm going to spray it around the periphery of the space with the plants in the other room. Gotta try anything...

With my current dilemma, I'm now considering some extreme action. What do you guys think of doing a bare-root transplant? I could get rid of all the contaminated soil and finish out my last 2 weeks in some fresh stuff...but it seems like a waste of soil as they are so close to being done. I think I'm going to get some more sand for now and just keep covering up the tops of the pots.

Back to studying for a while...my hps conversion bulb arrived safe and sound, along with my speaker grill cloth to keep my air-conditioning exhaust stealth. Can't have people getting suspicious...

I need to finish this exam so I can do some work on the room. Oh well, pics later...


----------



## Tatan (May 4, 2009)

I dont know Jerry about the bare root transplant... I mean you would be risking doing a lot of damage... after all you only have 2 weeks left and the buds are looking healthy...


----------



## discobisco (May 5, 2009)

*cinco de mayo = get drunk w/tequila and fire up a pile of mexican sativa*​


----------



## Tatan (May 5, 2009)

discobisco said:


> *cinco de mayo = get drunk w/tequila and fire up a pile of mexican sativa*​


 
I always thought that may 5th was mexicos independence day... saw somewhere that its not.. its actually the date they beat the Freanch in a battle... damn thats pretty lame...


----------



## warisnottheanswer (May 5, 2009)

dont say its lame around some mexicans they wont like that very much!



Tatan said:


> I always thought that may 5th was mexicos independence day... saw somewhere that its not.. its actually the date they beat the Freanch in a battle... damn thats pretty lame...


----------



## Tatan (May 5, 2009)

warisnottheanswer said:


> dont say its lame around some mexicans they wont like that very much!


 
hmmm... yeah.. lol i guess... peace not war... lol



Btw... good luck on your last exam Jerry


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 5, 2009)

Sorry for the delayed absence, but this studying thing had me all bogged down with life. But now that is done, so I can focus on my grow room again! The exam went well by the way...except I answered 4 LONG essay questions before realizing the instructions only required I answer 3...

But enough of that nonsense. So the plants were looking about the same yesterday. Wide girl is starting to shoot off little projections from just about every bud, and the lower buds on tall girl looked like they shot out some new thick white hairs. There was a slight problem however...I woke up in the middle of the night and just had the urge to go check on them...turns out the water reservoir in the a/c was full, causing the thing to TURN OFF! It was 103! Yikes!

Thankfully, I was only sleeping for a couple hours, so it couldn't have been like that for too long. At least I caught it when I did, or I would have some very unhappy plants. Lesson #1...empty that stupid thing EVERY DAY! Lesson #2...always follow that fatherly intuition when you know something is not right with your girls.

Otherwise, things are looking great. I ran the UVB yesterday for ~4 total hours. I've been slacking on using it lately, but now that I'm done with class I'll have more time to play.

So as I said, my speaker cloth and 360w hps conversion bulb arrived yesterday. I haven't had a chance to set up the new light yet, but I PROMISE it will happen before this time tomorrow. My girls are going have a much stronger light for the last few weeks...

I have my first confirmed female little plant as well. After confirming sex, I topped her right abover her 2nd true node (node with the cotyledon leaves doesn't count as a true node) so hopefully the result will be 4 main colas! I also attempted to use the cut top as a clone--I dipped in this rooting powder and stuck in a pot a couple inches deep. Within hours it looked like it was dying. We'll see how it looks at 8pm, but I'm not very optimistic. No great loss I suppose, but it looks like I'm going to need to find a reliable cloning system before I try anything on my blue cheese babies (whom I shall germinate someday real soon...)

No pics yet...sorry. But now that my classes are done, I can spend more time updating my thread!

Oh, and happy Cinco de Mayo...not sure what the hell it really represents...not sure I care...just another excuse to drink on a tuesday (as if I need one)


----------



## Tatan (May 5, 2009)

Congrats on the exam... at least you could choose your best 3 out of the 4 you wrote.

Also congrats on starting to top your plants, its cool having more than one big cola,and with your new light... its going to be sweet.


----------



## mared juwan (May 5, 2009)

Cinco de mayo celebrates the Mexican victory over the French army at Puebla. Just so you know LOL. 

When you get around to cloning your cheeses you should try my method. About 98% success rate and the whole setup costs under $20. I'll tell you more about it when the time comes.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 6, 2009)

Tatan said:


> Congrats on the exam... at least you could choose your best 3 out of the 4 you wrote.
> 
> Also congrats on starting to top your plants, its cool having more than one big cola,and with your new light... its going to be sweet.


Thanks dude. I finished my last paper today so I am actually DONE as of right now. It's a nice feeling.



mared juwan said:


> Cinco de mayo celebrates the Mexican victory over the French army at Puebla. Just so you know LOL.
> 
> When you get around to cloning your cheeses you should try my method. About 98% success rate and the whole setup costs under $20. I'll tell you more about it when the time comes.


I haven't really looked much into cloning yet, I just tried to dip it in the rooting hormone and plant it. But when I'm ready to clone for real I'll get that info off of you.

As soon as dawn breaks in the grow room I'm going to put up the 400watter! For now, I'm starting on my speaker grill cloth to cover the window...


----------



## Tatan (May 6, 2009)

Getting clones is not really hard and it can be a lifesaver, I started with one widow, now I have 4... and no need for other seeds.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 7, 2009)

So it is day 48...almost 7 weeks of flowering now and the buds look better every day. Wide girl's main cola continues to bulk up, tall girl is turning quite orange, and shorty is thick all around.

The leaf necrosis issue seems to have hit its peak of intensity...whether this is because there are no leaves left to attack or the problem has been resolved, I can only speculate. But the rate of decay seems to have slowed considerably, and new leaf growth coming out of the buds appears to be deficiency-deficient...ha

True to my word, I got the 400w system up and running! It required some serious overhaul of the space, but I got it in. The conversion bulb I got works great. It is visibly much brighter than the 150, so I can only imagine how much the plants like it. There's a problem, however. The fixture is so wide that it barely fits in the space. Instead of being completely suspended by the chains, it rests on 2 pieces of wood that formed the original braces for the shelf. It is too wide to hang freely beneath them, and the chain doesn't get short enough to suspend it above the slats. So it sits on them.

Sorry if that is hard to conceptualize, but I forgot to take a pic. Anyway, my problem is the bulb ends up sitting about 4 inches away from one of the pieces of wood, causing it to get a little warm. Do you think is a fire hazard? I tried to unscrew the thing to take it down, but my hand held screwdriver could hardly budge the screws. I'll need a drill to get it down. So its going to come off, just maybe not for a couple days.

Not surprisingly, the new 400w system puts of a ton of heat. How much heat, you ask? Well, with the a/c running constantly it kept it around 82. Perfect. Until the DAMN A/C SHUT OFF AGAIN BECAUSE THE TANK GOT TOO FULL. I emptied it at the beginning of the night, but because it had to run longer to cool the hotter room, it filled up more quickly. Bummer. So when I woke up and checked on them this morning, the temp was *108*!!! Fuck. Who knows how long it was like that too.

So, it turned out to be quite the adventurous evening. On a positive note, there was no sign of any bugs. None. I topped off the pots again with sand, just to be safe, but I didn't see a single flying anything or a single crawling anything.

That is, until I opened the veg closet, and a little spider came floating down on his little thread. I was a little trigger happy and smashed him before I had a chance to ask questions, but he was definitely a spider. Now, spider MITES are so small that you wouldn't be able to see them clearly floating down in front of you, right? They make webs between branches over time, but otherwise they are tiny? I just want to make sure it was actually a spider and not something much more serious...

Anyway, I got some neem concentrate from lowes. Haven't used it yet...it says to apply it foliarly, and I'm not too down with that situation, as I'd rather not spray shit on/near my buds. I'll do it to the soil if/when I feel its necessary.

So, that was a lot of words, and more than you probably wanted to read. Let's look at sparkly things then, shall we?

Shorty's main cola. Thick and juicy.






Shot of her top






Lower buds






These lower branch buds are really filling out the entire stem nicely.






Next, wide girl. Those fan leaves are all but gone, but there is plenty of other smaller leaves that can hopefully pick up the slack.






Here's the top. New growth protruding from all around it.






Close-up.






Her lower buds still not as developed as the other two...yet...






And, finally, Tall girl.






Cola is looking quite solid here, minus a few dead leaves.






Nice looking underbuds. Big.






I want to smoke it right now...






Finally the small ones. I've confirmed now at least 3 females. One male has been confirmed (2 already trashed). So through 6 plants we are batting .500






I decided it was about time I checked out the trichs under the scope yesterday. I took the tips off one leaf from each plant. They all appear to have mostly clear trichs, though I think a few are beginning to become cloudy. Still got a couple weeks left though...


----------



## growforgood904 (May 7, 2009)

Aw man u are almost there! bet its a hard wait!! you will enjoy when u do!!! good job Jerry + rep


----------



## DodgeDread (May 7, 2009)

maybe you could attach a hose and large bin to your ac and drain into there? This is how i run my dehumidifier constantly dripping into my feed buckets

glad to see you're liking the 400w, your plants are gonna love you


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 7, 2009)

Thanks GFG. I really want to start taking little "tasters" just to see how it smokes, but I can never bring myself to snip off any of the buds. I looked real hard a couple tiny bottom buds that are like 10 calyxes total...maybe tonight...

Dodge, you hit the nail on the head my friend, thank you! There's a nozzle on the back where I can rig up a hose and presumably it will drain through that after I flip a switch. I've got an empty cat litter bucket that should work nicely, though I could probably drain it straight into my bathtub...

I also noticed the stupid bucket thing leaks a little onto my floor, even when empty. Looks like I've found myself a new project for the evening...


----------



## Tatan (May 7, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Thanks GFG. I really want to start taking little "tasters" just to see how it smokes, but I can never bring myself to snip off any of the buds. I looked real hard a couple tiny bottom buds that are like 10 calyxes total...maybe tonight...
> 
> Dodge, you hit the nail on the head my friend, thank you! There's a nozzle on the back where I can rig up a hose and presumably it will drain through that after I flip a switch. I've got an empty cat litter bucket that should work nicely, though I could probably drain it straight into my bathtub...
> 
> I also noticed the stupid bucket thing leaks a little onto my floor, even when empty. Looks like I've found myself a new project for the evening...


 
Hehehehe I wish I could be as patient as you.. I have taken whole branches off of my plant... as tasters...


----------



## highjulypool (May 7, 2009)

hi. been reading this thread regularly and i must say its tops. well done and keep up the good work. its a real fountain of information. i hope you get pounds and pounds of great smoke from this and your future grows. best of luck


----------



## Tatan (May 7, 2009)

Shorty is still my favorite ... hehe, but it looks like you are getting some huge colas my friend ! Congrats !!

And by the way... spider mites are very very small.. but dont worry you arent going to see them flinging around. Im sure it wasnt a spider mite that you saw.


----------



## mared juwan (May 7, 2009)

Patience Jerry! Restrain yourself my man! Unless you don't have any other bud at all. Testers will set you up for disappointment IMO. Not only will it still have nutes in it but unless you want to let it dry for at least 4 or 5 days it's gonna taste green and immature. Even after a dry and cure it wouldn't be a proper representation of what you have. I swear the most dramatic change in smell and flavor in my plants happens in the last week or two. Skunks get skunkier, hazes get fruitier, kushes get kushier. But like I said premie bud is still better than no bud at all so I guess it depends on your situation.


----------



## Tatan (May 7, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Patience Jerry! Restrain yourself my man! Unless you don't have any other bud at all. Testers will set you up for disappointment IMO. Not only will it still have nutes in it but unless you want to let it dry for at least 4 or 5 days it's gonna taste green and immature. Even after a dry and cure it wouldn't be a proper representation of what you have. I swear the most dramatic change in smell and flavor in my plants happens in the last week or two. Skunks get skunkier, hazes get fruitier, kushes get kushier. But like I said premie bud is still better than no bud at all so I guess it depends on your situation.


 
Yeah I agree, I have taken samples cause I dont have any other to smoke... so if you can hold off smoking it...


----------



## Marcus66 (May 8, 2009)

As always, great journal Jerry G. Since your plants are a couple of weeks ahead of my first plants, I'm using this journal as kind of a blueprint. I do have some questions on snipping some samples from my plants. I've been buying tree since I started my grow and have been looking forward to ending that soon. Some tips on samples would be appreciated. So, what's the proper way to take a tester nug? Should it be hung for a couple of days just like the main harvest will be? Can the curing process be skipped? Is there a way to tell when it's a good time to chop a branch down to try (trichomes aren't cloudy yet)? Thanks in advance, and thanks again Jerry for all the good work, and enjoy the summer off from filling out unnecessary essays. Good luck, and I hope your harvest yields a plentiful bounty.


----------



## satuple (May 8, 2009)

Hi Jerry,

I was just reading your journal and the only thing I have to say is your girls look wonderful. I'm thinking about ordering some seeds from Nirvana.. maybe some AK-48 and Jock Horror... BTW I'm from Colombia and if you are interested in some Colombian seeds we could talk about trading some seeds.

And once again... beautiful work, keep on going... wana see some dried bubs and read your smoke report.






Jürgen


----------



## Sleepless (May 8, 2009)

Looking mighty scrumptious... I want some.


----------



## Tatan (May 8, 2009)

Marcus66 said:


> As always, great journal Jerry G. Since your plants are a couple of weeks ahead of my first plants, I'm using this journal as kind of a blueprint. I do have some questions on snipping some samples from my plants. I've been buying tree since I started my grow and have been looking forward to ending that soon. Some tips on samples would be appreciated. So, what's the proper way to take a tester nug? Should it be hung for a couple of days just like the main harvest will be? Can the curing process be skipped? Is there a way to tell when it's a good time to chop a branch down to try (trichomes aren't cloudy yet)? Thanks in advance, and thanks again Jerry for all the good work, and enjoy the summer off from filling out unnecessary essays. Good luck, and I hope your harvest yields a plentiful bounty.


 
As far as I know, you take a tester nug to smoke some before the rest of the plant is ready and cured...

What I do is I just cut a little branch and I quick dry it on top of a heater... hehe


----------



## mared juwan (May 8, 2009)

I'm not sure if I mentioned this here before but if you're thinking about chopping (or taking testers) than it's a good idea to test whether you have flushed for long enough. Pull off a tiny nug, just a few calyxes, and chew them up. The juices from bud with nutes still in it will have a bitter taste and a burning sensation in your mouth. Flushed buds will taste nice and clean like fresh water. I wouldn't bother hanging a tester nug. All hanging does is prevent your buds from being flat on one side. But definitely let it dry out for at least 5 days. Wet bud tastes shitty no matter how good it really is.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 8, 2009)

highjulypool said:


> hi. been reading this thread regularly and i must say its tops. well done and keep up the good work. its a real fountain of information. i hope you get pounds and pounds of great smoke from this and your future grows. best of luck


 Thanks man. I'll get pounds one day...



Tatan said:


> Shorty is still my favorite ... hehe, but it looks like you are getting some huge colas my friend ! Congrats !!
> 
> And by the way... spider mites are very very small.. but dont worry you arent going to see them flinging around. Im sure it wasnt a spider mite that you saw.


 Thanks dude. That's reassuring about the spider mite thing as well.



mared juwan said:


> Patience Jerry! Restrain yourself my man! Unless you don't have any other bud at all. Testers will set you up for disappointment IMO. Not only will it still have nutes in it but unless you want to let it dry for at least 4 or 5 days it's gonna taste green and immature. Even after a dry and cure it wouldn't be a proper representation of what you have. I swear the most dramatic change in smell and flavor in my plants happens in the last week or two. Skunks get skunkier, hazes get fruitier, kushes get kushier. But like I said premie bud is still better than no bud at all so I guess it depends on your situation.


 Thankfully, I'm not so desperate that I'm going to be chopping down entire branches (even if I do run out of the shitty weed I've got at the moment). 

However, this is a learning experience, and I want to know for myself what premature bud tastes like. So, in the name of science, I snipped a very tiny half-a-bowl-pack little bud from the bottom branch of tall girl. I put it under a 60w desk lamp for about 20 minutes and fired it up (still a little on the damp side). As you said Mared, it probably wasn't worth my time. It tasted nice indeed, but it was a far cry from what the final product will be.

So at the end of the day, it was worth it just for an experiment. I will never do it again though, regardless of desperation. I can either buy some or live without it. I'm not going to jeopardize my ladies.



Marcus66 said:


> As always, great journal Jerry G. Since your plants are a couple of weeks ahead of my first plants, I'm using this journal as kind of a blueprint. I do have some questions on snipping some samples from my plants. I've been buying tree since I started my grow and have been looking forward to ending that soon. Some tips on samples would be appreciated. So, what's the proper way to take a tester nug? Should it be hung for a couple of days just like the main harvest will be? Can the curing process be skipped? Is there a way to tell when it's a good time to chop a branch down to try (trichomes aren't cloudy yet)? Thanks in advance, and thanks again Jerry for all the good work, and enjoy the summer off from filling out unnecessary essays. Good luck, and I hope your harvest yields a plentiful bounty.


 Thanks Marcus. Regarding the taster nug, I just took some scissors and snipped off the lowest little grouping of calyxes from half of the node. If you're not in a hurry I guess you could just dry it normally. Mine went under a 60w incandescent bulb that puts off a little heat. I've heard you could put it in the oven on a setting below 150 or in the microwave on half strength for 10 second bursts. Both sound like bad news to me though.

If you're going to take testers, I recommend very small amounts. My trichs are still clear, but there sure a lot of them. I don't think there's much of a right or wrong way to do it, as it's probably going to be more of a waste than anything.



satuple said:


> Hi Jerry,
> 
> I was just reading your journal and the only thing I have to say is your girls look wonderful. I'm thinking about ordering some seeds from Nirvana.. maybe some AK-48 and Jock Horror... BTW I'm from Colombia and if you are interested in some Colombian seeds we could talk about trading some seeds.
> 
> ...


 Thanks Jürgen. Other than the leaf issues they are coming along nicely. Jock Horror and AK-48 both sound like nice choices for sure. I would be happy to grow either.

Stay tuned to the thread and you'll get a full report as it happens. I think it will be fun to try and give a smoke report and describe the sensations...never really thought about it much before, so I'm sure it will be a mind expanding experience.



Sleepless said:


> Looking mighty scrumptious... I want some.


I want some NOW...but I've got the (will) power!



mared juwan said:


> I'm not sure if I mentioned this here before but if you're thinking about chopping (or taking testers) than it's a good idea to test whether you have flushed for long enough. Pull off a tiny nug, just a few calyxes, and chew them up. The juices from bud with nutes still in it will have a bitter taste and a burning sensation in your mouth. Flushed buds will taste nice and clean like fresh water. I wouldn't bother hanging a tester nug. All hanging does is prevent your buds from being flat on one side. But definitely let it dry out for at least 5 days. Wet bud tastes shitty no matter how good it really is.


That's a pretty neat little test there, and one I will gladly try in the next few weeks!

I snapped some photos of the plants earlier, but I'm tired, so I'll give a full update in the 'morrow. Until then...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 8, 2009)

Sorry guys, I've got to throw up another post real quick because I'm sitting on 666 right now, and that just _feels_ unlucky. So, here's a shot of the new light up and running. You can see the wooden slat things I described earlier. I've got a drill and will be taking those bad boys out sometime soon...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 9, 2009)

Well as I promised here are the pics from last evening. I went out and got a $25 dehumidifier (off craigslist) to try and get the humidity down when the a/c is off...it hovers around 60-65%, which is too high (I think...?) I'm not sure how well the damn thing works, but it uses almost as much electricity as my damn a/c. I may just go buy a new cheap/energy efficient one and see if that does anything. This one puts off a great deal of heat and seems to only be minimally changing the humidity.

Anyway, the buds are looking nice...

Tall girl. Leaves still dying, but much more slowly now.






Lots of orange hairs on her top, but still pushing out new white ones...






One of the lower buds...there are about 4 that look like this one






Middle buds. Each node along the stem looks like this.






Wide girl. A little blurry, sorry.






Wide girls top. Note little bud projections sticking out the side. She's doing that all over...






Shorty. A little droopy (needed water...got it immediately after the pic was taken and perked right up), but otherwise great.






Top cola, nice and wide






One of her side buds. These little things are many nodes grown together, easily over a couple inches in length.






The adolescents. Almost every one of them is a confirmed female. I've trashed 3 males and counted at least 6 females...where was this ratio on my first go round?!? I think I have a hypothesis on why so many are females this time...I remember reading that a Russian study determined that seedlings with at least 4" to grow straight down have a much higher (I think it was 80%) chance of going female. I used 24oz clear plastic cups this times (wrapped in black duct tape to keep light off the roots) instead of the usual 16oz red and blue beer cups, so maybe the added inch or so of depth made a difference...or maybe I just got lucky this time...either way, I'm definitely going to use the deeper cups from now on.






Here's a close up of the first female I identified and topped. As you can see, I topped _above_ the second true node (cotyledon node counts as node ZERO) and got 4 main colas. Now that I know some of the others are females, I'll experiment with some fimming, and maybe a little supercropping...






I've been thinking about putting them back in veg for a while and letting them grow a little, but I've got these quality seeds just sort of collecting dust, longing for me to germinate them...once all sex is known I will either continue with the 12/12 (maybe throw a couple under the 400w hps) or put them back to veg for a couple weeks...but then I'll have a log jam of plants going into the flower room...I guess these little girls are going to stay 12/12 and just flower away then...

That's about it. The a/c must have been working hard last night, as I had to empty the reservoir after only 4 hours of use. I'm going out today to get a hose and run that shit into a bucket or my bathtub or something...


----------



## Tatan (May 9, 2009)

Wow Jerry, congrats on all those females man...and since you topped them, their shape will be completely different than your first ones. Speaking of which those buds are really thickening up, plus you got extra new growth going.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 9, 2009)

Thanks man, I'm excited to see how different they really are...but I sure with I had 4 colas on my big girls right now...


----------



## skeeterleg (May 9, 2009)

Looks GOOG JG!

They will like that new light. Just wait till the next round. You may have to raise the roof! lol

Those are some awesome colas you have there my friend....


----------



## Babs34 (May 10, 2009)

*About the bare root transplant...no, I don't suggest that for your bigger plants.*
*I DO suggest that you rid of that dirt on the babies though.....and any other houseplant you may have. I'm going to say it again--it only takes one of those little bastards flying around to keep them coming.*
*As Mared said......before starting your next batch, rub down your room with an alcohol solution. Definitely take my advice here.........do the bare root transplant with the clones. AND LOOK CLOSELY AND INSPECT THOSE LEAVES!!! Kill those eggs with the rubbing alcohol. You just don't know.....I'm not joking around. Look, I have seedlings galore right now. The f'ers are attacking THEM TOO......and this is just with ONE SINGLE gnat I see (and I'm constantly scrutinizing)--but you don't have to take my word for it.*
*As for the neem oil.........it won't hurt your plants at all. Spray it down upper and UNDER leaves.*
*I'm going to get some HUGE bags of some expensive soil today. ALL of my plants are getting the bare root transplant! ALL of them.......and trust me, that's a whole lot of soil I'll be dragging home today......well, tomorrow. They're closed today.*
*I hate having to do this, I really do. I'm betting I have at least 300 bucks, if not more, of soil I will be dropping into my outside compost pile. The only possibility of them still being around after the rub down in your room and harvesting the bigger ones will be the leaves on those clones. I'm going to drive you nuts with this, but USE THE RUBBING ALCOHOL on those leaves of the clones.......and no, it will not hurt them at all. Don't spray it, just very careful apply with a qtip. That stuff will evaporate before it even has a chance to hurt the leaf......but it zaps that egg on the spot. As for the soil in the clones, sure, you could cover with sand, but I just don't like the idea of having dead eggs in my soil.....yuck.*
*I'll be happy to do your transplants for a nice bud off your plant, LOL. I'm sure you'll do fine.*


----------



## mared juwan (May 10, 2009)

Very nice info with the rubbing alcohol. Didn't know about that one. Thanks, babs!

Jerry, 6 females under a 400 HPS = huge buds. Great news, man.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 10, 2009)

Babs, just keep hammering that point home, and one day I swear I will listen! They just don't seem so bad right now that I feel overly concerned. I'm going to take them out and give them a good inspection in a few, so maybe I'll just give them a once over with a q-tip and some alcohol...the only stuff i've got is the 91%, not the 70%...probably won't make much difference though.

Mared, I hope so. I'm going to top most of them. A couple I might just let grow.

And I think my struggling top-clone may have turned the corner and is going to live...maybe...


----------



## atlrhysdavis (May 11, 2009)

great grow. I have learned a lot from reading the past hour. I will be dropping by. good luck, and happy growing.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 11, 2009)

atlrhysdavis said:


> great grow. I have learned a lot from reading the past hour. I will be dropping by. good luck, and happy growing.


Thanks for stopping by atlrhysdavis, glad you learned something from my thread! Feel free to stop by anytime!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 12, 2009)

Well guys and girls, I suck at updating these days, I'm sorry. I thought I'd have more time with classes finished, but it turns out posting updates was a good way to procrastinate and not do work, so I did it way more often when I should have been studying...oh well, got a 4.0 for my last semester 

Anyway, the plants are doing fine. I've seen only one gnat and that was 2 days ago...I just keep adding a layer of dry sand after I water and I think it helps.

The little ones are almost all females. Really?!? I think there are 9, 10 if you count the top I planted as a clone (which has probably rooted by now and looks like it will pull through!). That is just absurd. I believe I started with 13, so 9 females is a crazy good ratio. I think it has to do with the deeper cups I used this time (24oz clear plastic) allowing for a longer taproot. If only I could have ONE or TWO more for my first grow I'd be sitting pretty right now...oh well, I've still got three lovely ladies.

Temps have finally cooled down here lately, and along with it the humidity. Should help my situation I think, even if only for a couple days.

Otherwise, not too much to report. I gave a water only feeding last time (3 days ago) and I'm wondering if I should continue with the water and stop with the nutrients altogether. I haven't checked the trichs lately, so I'll do that tonight when the lights come back on. So if I flush for two weeks starting with day 51, that would put me at day ~65 for harvest. I don't know if that is enough time...

They are due for a watering tonight, so maybe I'll give one more round of nutes and then just water from there on in...

I took these pics 2 days ago and never posted them. I'm such a slacker these days...

Tall girl. Pretty much the same--tall and turning orange. Smells nice though.






Top cola. Looking nice beneath those tattered leaves






Lots of good sized lower buds on this girl






Wide girl--her top has just exploded with new growth over the last few days. Those little projections I alluded to before are now serious chunks of bud sticking out!






It's kinda hard to tell from this pic, but she is getting FATTY!






Another top shot.











I didn't plan the above picture to turn out like that, but I thought it looked cool so I left it.

And of course we do it for the Shorty's!






Lower buds are the biggest of all the plants by far, and look nasty!






Close-up of a side bud.






And a top down shot...lots of leaves shooting out from the bud.







Once again I forgot to take pics of the babies, who are now truly budding under my 6 6500k 26w cfls. I topped three more of them, for a total of 4 topped plants, but I don't know quick the others will respond. The one I topped a few days ago already has 2 or 3 nodes per cola and growing fast! I left the best looking (i.e. closest node spacing) plants to just go through life normally. As I said, some have full blown buds already.

I'm debating whether or not to grow them out the entire way in the 24oz cups. I've got pots that will allow the roots to stretch horizontally, but they aren't any deeper than what I'm using now. Maybe I should find some 2 liter bottles and finish them out in those...I'll probably leave one or two in the plastic cups though just to see how it works. I'm also about ready to transfer a few into the flower chamber and let them start getting some 400w hps love. I'm going to really spend some time in the grow room tonight and make some additions...(hint: it's going to be stadium-like).

And it's almost time to crack some new seeds...thai super skunk, ppp, blue cheese, and more...

Sorry again for the delayed absence


----------



## RollingJoints (May 12, 2009)

Nice grow +REP


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 12, 2009)

Thanks man, just checked yours out and it looks great!


----------



## satuple (May 12, 2009)

Hi Jerry,

Those girls are doing so well They look really beautiful. I hope you are really enjoying this nice experience. Im going to order some seeds form Nirvana this week (hope they dont take too long to arrive), maybe AK-48, Jock Horror and Aurora Indica wanna try one of sativa, one indica and one mixed.
BTW are you going to give that buds some flavor or just go natural?
This is a interesting page about that..
http://www.seedbankupdate.com/cure.htm

Best wishes.


----------



## Sleepless (May 12, 2009)

Those leaves are looking kind of sickly, you know why?


----------



## discobisco (May 12, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Temps have finally cooled down here lately, and along with it the humidity. Should help my situation I think, even if only for a couple days.


 
In the mountains we call it 'blackberry winter'. It's the last cold snap of spring that gets the blackberryz growin. 
Doesn't last that long on the coast tho.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 12, 2009)

Sleepless said:


> Those leaves are looking kind of sickly, you know why?


Yes, the leaves are in dire straits these days...I believe they went through a period of nitrogen and phosphorous deficiency caused by a pH lockout. I watered with some filtered tap water that turned out to be 7.9 pH. I only did it once, but I think it was enough to stress tall girl and wide girl. Shorty didn't seem to mind much though, but I overwatered her as a youth and really stunted her growth.

But that is why this is my first grow, so I can learn this stuff now and then use my knowledge for my next (and more serious) round of plants! I'm just happy it hasn't really affected the buds.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 12, 2009)

discobisco said:


> In the mountains we call it 'blackberry winter'. It's the last cold snap of spring that gets the blackberryz growin.
> Doesn't last that long on the coast tho.


The girls probably didn't even notice any difference. It stayed about the same temp with the lights on (81ish) as it usually does in there. But without the a/c I'm sure it still would have gotten over 100...that 400w puts off some heat!

Looks like it will be in the high 70's lower 80's for the next 10 days or so, which is a nice little break.

Discobisco, lets play some disc golf today! Hit me up!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 12, 2009)

satuple said:


> Hi Jerry,
> 
> Those girls are doing so well They look really beautiful. I hope you are really enjoying this nice experience. Im going to order some seeds form Nirvana this week (hope they dont take too long to arrive), maybe AK-48, Jock Horror and Aurora Indica wanna try one of sativa, one indica and one mixed.
> BTW are you going to give that buds some flavor or just go natural?
> ...


Thanks man--I've never dealt with Nirvana, but I have used The Attitude and I recommend them. They're in the UK, but my order arrived quick and without any problems. Those three strains you've picked out sound excellent.

I'm not going to _add _any flavoring...that link was the first I've ever heard of that! I am planning on curing though. Roseman posted a nice thread about harvesting and curing, but I can't seem to find it at the moment...I'll post a link to it when I do, because it was really very detailed and very awesome!


----------



## highjulypool (May 12, 2009)

can anyone help with this? germinated seeds last week. put in pots and after about ten days they have grown about three to four inches tall but there is only two small leaves on top. from jerrys pictures his are just a couple inches with loads of leaves. mine just seem to be growing long stems. they are in enriched soil. has this anything to do with it? i would prefer short bushy plants not tall skinny ones. any views much appreciated. sorry for piggy backing on your post jerry but there seems to be a lot of knowledegable people posting so i thought it would best place to ask


----------



## Tatan (May 12, 2009)

Things are looking great Jerry. Ive noticed how much bigger your buds have gotten. Very impressive man, looks like you are going to have tons of good quality weed to smoke my friend congrats !
Good job on the 4.0... see, you can grow weed and do well in school at the same time lol.

Make sure you take pics of the new setup ... cant wait to see. 

Regarding the 2 liter bottles I think they would work. Its just a matter of how big your plants are. The good thing about those bottles is that roots tend to go down.. and not as much sideways.


Highjulypool: your plants are not getting enough light, that is why they are so tall and have small leaves. Marijuana plants arent like most houseplants... they need tons of light.


----------



## Nick E.S.P (May 12, 2009)

if its at 77 degrees how hot is it without the ac becuase im growing in my attic and it gets really hot up there


----------



## mared juwan (May 12, 2009)

satuple said:


> Hi Jerry,
> 
> Those girls are doing so well&#8230; They look really beautiful. I hope you are really enjoying this nice experience. I&#8217;m going to order some seeds form Nirvana this week (hope they don&#8217;t take too long to arrive), maybe AK-48, Jock Horror and Aurora Indica&#8230; wanna try one of sativa, one indica and one mixed.
> BTW are you going to give that buds some flavor or just go natural?
> ...


PLEASE please please don't get Nirvana seeds. I have three Nirvana strains and they are mediocre at best. I'm finishing up the last round of it now. It's pretty much like commercial strains with huge buds that look great but the potency and smell is just not there. There's way better to be had for the money. If you don't want to pay more than $35 for ten seeds then check out Cannacopia from Hemp Depot. Try the BC Roadkill and you will not be disappointed GUARANTEED. I know it's hard to believe some random person from the internet but if you research you will find that anyone who has grown Nirvana strains and also something else that's quality will tell you Nirvana is not so great. Rant over.

EDIT: one of my strains is Jock Horror. Definitely not mid grade or anything but it doesn't compare with the best weed I've ever smoked that is for damn sure. If you have ever heard anyone say "Jock Horror" is the best shit I ever smoked they probably mean "Jack Herer." COMPLETELY different thing.


----------



## satuple (May 12, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> PLEASE please please don't get Nirvana seeds. I have three Nirvana strains and they are mediocre at best. I'm finishing up the last round of it now. It's pretty much like commercial strains with huge buds that look great but the potency and smell is just not there. There's way better to be had for the money. If you don't want to pay more than $35 for ten seeds then check out Cannacopia from Hemp Depot. Try the BC Roadkill and you will not be disappointed GUARANTEED. I know it's hard to believe some random person from the internet but if you research you will find that anyone who has grown Nirvana strains and also something else that's quality will tell you Nirvana is not so great. Rant over.
> 
> EDIT: one of my strains is Jock Horror. Definitely not mid grade or anything but it doesn't compare with the best weed I've ever smoked that is for damn sure. If you have ever heard anyone say "Jock Horror" is the best shit I ever smoked they probably mean "Jack Herer." COMPLETELY different thing.


Thanks for the advise mared juwan.. I'll look for others seed banks...


----------



## Tatan (May 12, 2009)

Do like Jerry and get seeds from Attitude.. they are good.


----------



## mared juwan (May 12, 2009)

Yea make sure to know the difference between a seed bank and a breeder. Nirvana is a breeder and also a seedbank. You can buy their seeds elsewhere, like at Attitude. Attitude carries seeds from something like 40 breeders. Attitude has nothing to do with making the seeds. The breeder is what is important to the quality of genetics. The seedbank is important in reliably getting the seeds delivered to you. You won't find the strain I mentioned at the Attitude but there are plenty other good ones there. This is one area where it doesn't pay to skimp. If you pay maybe $75-100 for some Serious Seeds you will have a far more valuable product in the end than if you get something like Nirvana has for $30. You mentioned the AK-48 from Nirvana. That is pretty much a knock off of Serious AK47. Get the real thing you won't be sorry.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 13, 2009)

highjulypool said:


> can anyone help with this? germinated seeds last week. put in pots and after about ten days they have grown about three to four inches tall but there is only two small leaves on top. from jerrys pictures his are just a couple inches with loads of leaves. mine just seem to be growing long stems. they are in enriched soil. has this anything to do with it? i would prefer short bushy plants not tall skinny ones. any views much appreciated. sorry for piggy backing on your post jerry but there seems to be a lot of knowledegable people posting so i thought it would best place to ask


As Tatan said, your plants are too far away from the light and/or are not getting enough light. Move them as close to your light as you can without burning them and that should help. You can also bury that stretched stem up to the first node and that should help give it stability so it doesn't topple over.



Tatan said:


> Things are looking great Jerry. Ive noticed how much bigger your buds have gotten. Very impressive man, looks like you are going to have tons of good quality weed to smoke my friend congrats !
> Good job on the 4.0... see, you can grow weed and do well in school at the same time lol.
> 
> Make sure you take pics of the new setup ... cant wait to see.
> ...


 Thanks man, I got my first 4.0 of my life in grad school...guess it took me this long to get motivated, or something. I go to class high, take tests high, give presentations high, certainly write papers high, and I seem to do just fine.

So I haven't had a chance to make my newest grow-room addition yet...I need to use a table saw and only have access to one in the evening. But it should help maximize the # of plants I can cram into that teeny-tiny space.



Nick E.S.P said:


> if its at 77 degrees how hot is it without the ac becuase im growing in my attic and it gets really hot up there


 Without the a/c on a recent hot evening the temp reached 108 (as the a/c shut itself off because the water bucket was full...), so it gets pretty fucking hot. Attic grows are problematic for just that reason, and in the summer I don't think you can successfully grow there without an air conditioner.



mared juwan said:


> Yea make sure to know the difference between a seed bank and a breeder. Nirvana is a breeder and also a seedbank. You can buy their seeds elsewhere, like at Attitude. Attitude carries seeds from something like 40 breeders. Attitude has nothing to do with making the seeds. The breeder is what is important to the quality of genetics. The seedbank is important in reliably getting the seeds delivered to you. You won't find the strain I mentioned at the Attitude but there are plenty other good ones there. This is one area where it doesn't pay to skimp. If you pay maybe $75-100 for some Serious Seeds you will have a far more valuable product in the end than if you get something like Nirvana has for $30. You mentioned the AK-48 from Nirvana. That is pretty much a knock off of Serious AK47. Get the real thing you won't be sorry.


Why does anyone still deal with Nirvana? I haven't heard much about their breeder side, but I've heard lots of bad things about their seedbank side in recent weeks--lots of non-delivered orders and unsatisfied individuals. They always seemed a little sketch to me, but I have no personal experience either way with them. Attitude worked for me, so I'll use them again.

Update with pics coming within the hour...


----------



## Tatan (May 13, 2009)

Yeah... hehehe Ive taught in college for many years and in my opinion smoking some weed and doing well in school are completely compatible


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 13, 2009)

Alright guys and girls, I took more pictures last night before bed, so we'll get to those in a moment. I checked out the trichs yesterday on tall girl and wide girl (but not shorty...she was all the way in the back and I didn't feel like moving the others at the time...I was lazy), and was moderately surprised to find mostly cloudy trichs on wide girl, with fewer on tall girl. Both still had some clear-headed trichs, so I figured they could handle one more solid feeding before they get their 2 week water only flush. So I used molasses, tiger bloom, big bloom, cha ching and superthrive. Watering with the sand has really become an art--I have to dig a small ditch around the stem to channel all the water down the center of the pot (and not let it run off the top to the edges where it just goes right out the bottom). I pH'ed my nutrient solution to 6.9 going in, but my runoff measured 7.5 across the board. Not sure why it is so high, I've been carefully monitoring the pH ever time I give it anything, but whatever. I purchased one of those little soil pH tester kits but have yet to use it...maybe with some free time later I'll give it a whirl.

So from here on in the plants will receive only water and molasses (unless you all think I should use water only). This is a hard decision to make not knowing the expected flowering time of my bagseed strains, as I don't really know how long it takes the trichs to turn amber. And I don't want to begin flushing for two weeks when they are 50% amber...two weeks from today would put it at 69 days flowering...

Otherwise, things are going well. I took lots of pics yesterday, so we'll see how many I can get up...

We begin with Tall girl...kinda dark pic, sorry






You can almost see how she is beginning to push out some new bud growth similar to wide girl...






Close up of the top--sorry about the cat hair, it just gets in everything I own.






Couple middle buds...






Lower branches, still filling out nicely.






Next, Wide girl. I need to illuminate the plants better for these full plant shots...






Here's a top down shot of her top. The leaves look so shitty but that bud sure looks nice.






I like it.






Close up, another angle.






And another...






This is a bottom-up shot trying to show the buds along the stem...didn't work too well though. The buds along the stem are also starting to shoot off new projections of wonderfulness.






Shorty, always bringing up the rear.






Those lower buds really extend the entire way to the main stem. You can't see from the pics, but once they are harvested and trimmed those lower branches are going to be a nice size. And some good pot!






Here is the next generation of wonderful plants, ready to roll. I'm going to leave these 5 girls un-topped, as they have pretty descent node spacing and already are developing buds.






Here's the first one I topped, looking nice! Those are going to be 4 main colas for sure! It will be interesting to see how these turn out, because she is still in 12/12 lighting and has been since before I topped her. Had I already known the sex, I could have topped and let those cola's veg for a few weeks before going 12/12 (which I will do with at least one of the blue cheeses), but this will give me a nice baseline for comparison.






That little girl in the back there is the top from the above plant. Her first few days of life were dicey--she got really limp, to the point I thought it was done for--but now she is standing strong and has undoubtedly grown some roots. I probably should have taken off that bottom set of fan leaves, but whatever it worked! So one more female for me to play with...I wonder what happens if I topped her above the second node...would I get 4 colas? I assume topping a clone works just like topping anything else...






Here are the other 3 girls I topped (and disposed of their tops...I've got no room to take on any more plants!). I selected these because they had gotten the most stretched and appeared to be developing a little more slowly because of that. None of these will have the growth rate of the first one I topped, at least not initially, because the growth that becomes the 4 new cola's has barely started to poke out from the node (the one in the back is clearly the worst off--I may have actually topped above the first node on that one because the distance to the second node was so great (stretched).






Here's my solution to the damn a/c shutting off--a hose and a bucket! Now this thing could probably run 3 days straight before the bucket would fill up, and even then I don't think it would shut off...just flood my bathroom and keep on trucking...






So that was quite an update. Hope you enjoyed it. I'm going to get high.


----------



## highjulypool (May 13, 2009)

thanks tatan and jerry. dont have much light on them so i am going to get some more in. cheers


----------



## Tatan (May 13, 2009)

Damn Jerry those buds are so nice and huge ! Congrats !

If your trich are already mostly cloudy I would expect that within a week you would have a lot of amber trichs...


----------



## Sleepless (May 13, 2009)

Nice thinking on the AC, jerry. you got yourself a good nogin : )


----------



## Babs34 (May 14, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Very nice info with the rubbing alcohol. Didn't know about that one. Thanks, babs!
> 
> Jerry, 6 females under a 400 HPS = huge buds. Great news, man.


 *Yeah Mared, but it's tedious when you only have a couple of plants, try that on a room full of them. *
*I haven't been spending much time on here lately, but I checked out your grow(s)....phew, almost 100 pages. Sorry, tried to be patient, but I had to skip to the pictures. *
*First grow, eh? Outstanding!!! for even a 30th. Do ya thang.*
*The last part I was reading about was including your girlfriend on the grow---and how she picked out the strains for the "pretty pictures." I lmao. It's a female thing.*
*As my grandmother always said, "pretty is as pretty does."*


----------



## Babs34 (May 14, 2009)

*Oh, and Jerry....about the molassas. I'll try to keep it simple--inevitably impossible for me. And I'll stop nagging you about the gnats. I'll just hope for you that you don't get the maffia mob that I have had going on.*
*I'm literally falling asleep right now, but molassas is great in the end......for EVERYTHING. No worries of clogging up anything at this point. You aren't revegging, are you?*
*I'll get back to this and we'll talk TEA too.*
*You can't really change the flavor of your bud so much as you can "enhance" it. It just gets more fun from here. *


----------



## skeeterleg (May 15, 2009)

Congrats on the 4.0! Man that brings back memories. Been over twenty years for me! lol

Looking good and frosty bro. You have a nice little op going there. I know you are stoked. Not long now but this is the hardest part! Waiting....lol


----------



## Tatan (May 15, 2009)

LOL Jerry seems like you are going to have the same problem Im currently dealing with... Too many plants ready to go flower and not enough space for them all lol.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 15, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Oh, and Jerry....about the molassas. I'll try to keep it simple--inevitably impossible for me. And I'll stop nagging you about the gnats. I'll just hope for you that you don't get the maffia mob that I have had going on.*
> *I'm literally falling asleep right now, but molassas is great in the end......for EVERYTHING. No worries of clogging up anything at this point. You aren't revegging, are you?*
> *I'll get back to this and we'll talk TEA too.*
> *You can't really change the flavor of your bud so much as you can "enhance" it. It just gets more fun from here. *


I appreciate your nagging about the gnats...it showed me pretty quick that they aren't something to take lightly. The fact that they haven't become a "mafia mob" yet is because you've scared me into being on the lookout for the bastards. Since my initial spat with them, I have only seen a couple flying around my room, and not any in the grow room, so I haven't needed to take such extreme measures as you've described in previous posts.

And what of this tea you keep mentioning? I've been going strong on the molasses for 2 months now, and I'll keep it going through to harvest I suppose...is that ok?



skeeterleg said:


> Congrats on the 4.0! Man that brings back memories. Been over twenty years for me! lol
> 
> Looking good and frosty bro. You have a nice little op going there. I know you are stoked. Not long now but this is the hardest part! Waiting....lol


Thanks skeeter, I really busted my ass the last few weeks to earn that 4.0, so it feels good. Turns out I've only had one B since I've been in grad school, and that was in my first semester. But hopefully I've taken my last college classes for a LONG time now...

And you're right, I am stoked but also having the hardest time waiting. I've got some shitty other weed I've been dealing with, which hasn't been making the situation any better. I'm strong though, I won't give in to _this _temptation.



Tatan said:


> LOL Jerry seems like you are going to have the same problem Im currently dealing with... Too many plants ready to go flower and not enough space for them all lol.


That's exactly why I'm doing a little amateur carpentry today! Got my wood cut last night so I can work on the room right now. I should have a finished/workable product to unveil later with my update tonight...

Thanks for hanging around ya'll! Harvest time is looming just over that horizon...


----------



## mared juwan (May 15, 2009)

Your nugs look juicy, Jerry LOL. Don't forget to flush them for a long enough time and harvest in the last hours of their dark time. I've been experimenting and it seems to cure up nicer when harvested at night.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 15, 2009)

Thanks Mared. The flush officially starts tonight or tomorrow or whenever they get watered next. How do you feel about extending the dark period just prior to harvest? I've heard people doing 36+ hours of dark immediately before chopping...maybe it helps "cure it up" a little more to get some extra darkness? Maybe not.

There is so much folklore and hearsay associated with cultivating marijuana...its hard to know what is good info and what is bunk.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 15, 2009)

So my minor construction project hit a few snags along the way, and turned out to be a lot simpler than my original plan...oh well, it worked! I added a raised platform where I place small to medium sized pots under the 400w hps. I figured the bigger light can support more plants and covers more area than the 150, so lets cram as much as we can in there! I took all except the 4 topped plants (6 total) and added them to the flower room. My plan is now to turn the closet back into a veg closet and let those topped girls bulk up a little before going back to flower. I'm trying to get a nice perpetual system going, where I've got plants at various stages of growth moving between the veg and flower rooms.

Take a look...

Here's a shot looking in. Note the additional plants on the right. Already a couple weeks into flower now.






A nice shot of the shelf. I originally added planks to the sides to prevent them from falling off the sides. They took up too much room and were probably just unnecessary anyway. So I just screwed a couple boards on and viola!







I took a couple in-situ shots of the other girls too...didn't feel like taking them out again to photograph. Here's tall girl.






Here's wide girl. Her top is fucking huge. The new projecting bits are now covered in trichomes. You can't really tell, but I was shocked by how sparkly they were. I'll take a better shot tomorrow and you'll be able to see a little better.






Wide girl hiding in the back. Just huge main cola and lower buds. I'm expecting a big yield from this little plant.






Here are the remaining topped girls in the veg closet. Going back to 18/6 or 20/4 soon.







I fed a few of the shorty's some molasses and big bloom today for the first time with their water. They're probably about ready for it.

Sorry the pics kinda suck today...I'll take them out and get better ones tomorrow


----------



## mared juwan (May 16, 2009)

Those pics were great for me. The grow room mods look awesome. If those topped plants in the veg closet are still in 12/12 I would decide whether or not to change back as soon as you can. The longer they go into flower the harder it is to revert back to veg. If you wait too long the budsites will be unable to push out new leaves and the new greenery will instead be forced out the sides of the nodes and grow all curly and funny for a few days. And I say go for it with the 72 hour dark. I thought all that was myth too until I tried the experiment witht the night time harvest.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 16, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Those pics were great for me. The grow room mods look awesome. If those topped plants in the veg closet are still in 12/12 I would decide whether or not to change back as soon as you can. The longer they go into flower the harder it is to revert back to veg. If you wait too long the budsites will be unable to push out new leaves and the new greenery will instead be forced out the sides of the nodes and grow all curly and funny for a few days. And I say go for it with the 72 hour dark. I thought all that was myth too until I tried the experiment witht the night time harvest.


Well I left the light on in the veg closet, so they are going back into veg right now. Done and done.

I'll definitely give the extra dark thing a try, but 3 days of darkness?! Whoa. I'm actually going out of town for a couple days over memorial day weekend, which is right around when I plan on harvesting, so maybe I'll switch off the lights off then...


----------



## Tatan (May 16, 2009)

Your new closet looks great Jerry. Congrats man .. your grow is gettign better and better and looks like you are going to have a huge yield !!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 16, 2009)

So I took some more pics tonight. They're looking and smelling just fantastic. I gave a thorough watering... 2.5 gallons for the three plants of only distilled water, pH @ 6.8. The runoff initially registered around 7.2, but by the end was hitting 8.0 across the board. Not sure how/why it is so high. I've got a soil pH test, but I haven't gotten around to using it yet.

Everything is going well, except humidity is up around 70% at night. I'm trying to find some dehumidifying crystals in town, but I'll probably have to get them online. Any reduction would help. During their daytime the humidity is ~43%.

Killed one gnat today. Now that the young girls have moved into the flower room I'll need to get more sand and cover the soil up to deter the little flying devils.

UVB is running as we speak. There are a LOT of trichomes popping up, especially from the new growth. It never runs more than 4 or 5 hours a day, usually in one or two increments. It's the first exposure for the young girls, so we'll see if it has any negative effets for them. But I think they are responding positively to the light.

That's about it. I took a bunch of pics so I'll let them do the rest of the talking.

Tall girl






More tall girl






Nice little bud there.






Sparkley






Lower buds. I tried to pull them apart a little and get some light down there...pulled one branch a little too hard and had to tie it to the main stem to keep it up. They look great though.






More lower buds. Showing new growth.






Wide girl.






Closer view of the nice looking top.






More of the top.






And another.






Top down shot.






One more close up.






Lower buds on wide girl. Still developing, but they look nice.






Shorty! Thick and beautiful!






Lower buds. BIG lower buds!






Shorty's top/main cola






Closer.






And a little closer still...







So they're doing well. I knocked off a very small lower bud accidentally...so I had to smoke it. Dried it in front of my space heater for about an hour. Smoked pretty harsh and chemically...that's why I'm flushing away!

BTW, how much should I be watering during these last few weeks? I don't want to really "flush" right? Just water as I normally would, but only with water? The runoff was pretty yellow/amber...


----------



## Babs34 (May 17, 2009)

*I don't know if I'd even want to wait 2 more weeks to harvest.*
*I don't know if there is an "exact" way to flush Jerry. I stare at my plants for so long near the end, I practically have to tie my hands just to not harvest. So, instead, I do a gradual flush.....and I probably flush more than is recommended too. I lose count on how many gallons per plant I use. I just keep flushing until it comes clear. That's a whole lot of water---more than the 3x size of the pot "they say" to use.*
*Definitely continue to use the molassas...but I don't know how I feel about your using it on your clones.*
*As for the tea thing....if I tell you different things I've tried, I promise you that you will not find anything online about it......at least I didn't. I just figured, I like the taste of my tea, so my plants will too. And it DID do justice for the flavor. I had grown the very same strain without to do a comparison. SO MUCH SWEETER AND SMOOTHER "with" the tea.*
*I get kind of goofy with the stuff Jerry and as I said earlier, I'm not one to measure. I make my tea, have a cup.....and share with my plants--room temperature of course for them. Vanilla, ginger, cinnamon, cardomom, clover, nutmeg---whatever tastes good. It's natural, they're herbs..and using them in the end works wonderfully. No one argue with me here. *
*HeHe, my way of saying I don't care what "others" say......I love it. I use the herbs, along with the molassas and oh---I've also used maple syrup, yes, maple syrup--organic of course. I have even lightly misted the plant with all of the above ingredients in the VERY END...very important to have fan "dry" them off so as not to create mold. But I DRENCHED them at a gradual pace.*
*I've read over and over about the 3 day dark period. I don't know how I feel about that either. Mother nature doesn't allow for that, but hey....I had to try it. I don't know that I can attribute anything wondrous it did for my bud, so I'm neutral on that one.*
*I got so frustrated with the gnats at the end. I did grow them in the last few days with bare roots sitting in a strainer! I just HAD to get rid of that soil, yuck, yuck, YUCK.*
*--- so now I'll have to nag you to do the same with your clones.  A bare root transplant that is.*
*I can't wait to see you actually harvest. Don't forget to add those pictures!!! *


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 17, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *HeHe, my way of saying I don't care what "others" say......I love it. *


You truly do things your own way babs...lol...whatever works! I don't think I'll be experimenting with tea anytime soon, but I like the concept. I'm actually quite intrigued by organic growing, and may pursue that route someday down the line...but for now I'm content to refine my newly acquired growing skills and produce the best quality plants I can. Once I garner more experience I'll start branching out to things like coco, organics, maybe a little hydro...I want to try it all! But again, for now I just want to get good at what I'm doing


----------



## Tatan (May 17, 2009)

Very impressive Jerry ! 
Lol... Shorty looks like one big round bud. 
Looks like those plants will be done soon... maybe 2 weeks will be too long ? 
Its cool that a small branch accidentally fell, so you could get a taste. Anyway, about the flushing thee has to be as many theories about flushing as growers... I personally im just going with flushing on the last week.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 17, 2009)

Yeah, I'm not sold on 2 weeks as a magical number for flushing...but I'm not going to hurry it either. I may actually harvest a lower bud from each of them in about a week, just to test how the short flush/early harvest tastes (and to start my comparison of the high produced by cloudy vs. amber trichs).

I may also try the Final Flush stuff I've got...I have it so I might as well use it...I'll read the bottle and decide later.


----------



## Babs34 (May 17, 2009)

Everything is going well, except humidity is up around 70% at night. I'm trying to find some dehumidifying crystals in town, but I'll probably have to get them online.
*Lowes Home Improvement---"DampRid"----you can find it in the cleaning section isle. Two containers for approximately 5 bucks.*
*Oh, and no "Magic" to the flush, but give it at least a week and it's really a waste of money to get the clearex in my most humble opinion. But, to each their own. *


----------



## Evil Buddies (May 18, 2009)

I also bought a lil device called a damp trap that collects all the moisture from the air and reduces humidity. Should to be able to buy them relatively cheap from most DIY stores.

Those buds are looking really good especially loving the close ups with the crystals on there. Looks like you gonna have some tasty buds soon to smoke.

Evil


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 18, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> Everything is going well, except humidity is up around 70% at night. I'm trying to find some dehumidifying crystals in town, but I'll probably have to get them online.
> *Lowes Home Improvement---"DampRid"----you can find it in the cleaning section isle. Two containers for approximately 5 bucks.*
> *Oh, and no "Magic" to the flush, but give it at least a week and it's really a waste of money to get the clearex in my most humble opinion. But, to each their own. *


I managed to find the DampRid stuff at Lowes yesterday (before I read this post as a matter of fact) on my SECOND trip there. I asked someone the first time and they looked at me like I was a damn fool. I was in there buying sand and in the checkout aisle was a 2-pack for $5...ugh.

I checked online and found that home depot had the same stuff, but in a variety of different sizes and containers (as well as a large container of refill crystals for $4) that lowes did not carry. So now I've got the stuff and plenty of refill! We'll see how it does in my dark cycle today (its been raining for about 18 hours now so there should be plenty of moisture for those things to remove).

Regarding the flush, I was planning on just using water, but my girlfriend bought it for me while at the hydro store about a month and a half ago...she was in the neighborhood and I asked for her to pick up something--while she was there the guy working told her she needed this "final flush" stuff. I laughed and told her water works just fine, but now I've got the stuff so I might as well use it.



Evil Buddies said:


> I also bought a lil device called a damp trap that collects all the moisture from the air and reduces humidity. Should to be able to buy them relatively cheap from most DIY stores.
> 
> Those buds are looking really good especially loving the close ups with the crystals on there. Looks like you gonna have some tasty buds soon to smoke.
> 
> Evil


Thanks Evil Buddies, as I said above I managed to find one yesterday. I'm not sure how much they will lower the humidity, but one guy said they lower his about 20%, which would probably keep me under 50% total RH, which is what I'm shooting for.

Regarding the pics, I saw those trichs really start sparkling the other day and wanted everyone get a look. They've still got a week or so to get more frosty before they get the chop too...


----------



## mared juwan (May 18, 2009)

Yea Jerry keep a very close eye on your biggest buds. That is where your risk of budrot is highest. If you see a single fan leaf that is sticking out of the bud start to shrivel up and die for seemingly no reason it is probably mold. Follow the stem of the leaf to the middle of the bud and inspect for any fuzzy mold. If you see any, chop that bud ASAP. I've had mold problems before and they will ruin your day big time.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 18, 2009)

Yeah, I figured the biggest buds have the highest potential to get moldy. That's why I'm trying to get the humidity under control now. It's hard to tell if any leaves projecting from the buds are starting to shrivel, as most of them are already shriveled.

While I don't suspect I have an issue right now, do you think I should pull apart the top buds a little bit and check? I don't want to start ripping them apart now, but at the same time I want to make damn sure there is no mold or budrot. I've heard of entire crops going down b/c of buds rotting from the inside out...no fun...


----------



## pabloezekiel (May 18, 2009)

Newbie to the page and to growing, and to me everything is looking great. I'm just finishing my indoor grow area it's kind of small 2ft6ince wide x and like 3ft8inches tall I have 10 cfls of 23watts each (5 cool daylight and 5 warm whites) with 2 T8 18w fluorescents and I put 2 PC fans one for intake the other for exhaust. I'll make a thread soon. How many plants do you have? I'm trying to see how many I can put in there


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 18, 2009)

pabloezekiel said:


> Newbie to the page and to growing, and to me everything is looking great. I'm just finishing my indoor grow area it's kind of small 2ft6ince wide x and like 3ft8inches tall I have 10 cfls of 23watts each (5 cool daylight and 5 warm whites) with 2 T8 18w fluorescents and I put 2 PC fans one for intake the other for exhaust. I'll make a thread soon. How many plants do you have? I'm trying to see how many I can put in there


Thanks for stopping by pablo. Right now I've got 3 girls in 7.5" square pots in my room of 17" wide by 30" deep by ~5 feet tall. I could have fit as many as 8 in the 7.5" square pots, but until now I only had a 150w hps, which would not provide enough coverage for them all.

You're room sounds larger than mine (though you only gave a width and height, so a third dimension would help understand the size you're dealing with) so you should be able to fit at least as many plants as I've got. You're biggest drawback will be having enough light to support the entire space. Fluoros are all well and good, and your combination of spectrums is also a plus, but HID light (MH and HPS) will give you bigger/better yeilds. However, it's not such a bad idea to embark on your journey with only fluoros until you get the hang of things. I guess it depends mostly on your budget. I started with cfl's and fluoros too, so check out the early pages of my thread and you'll get an idea of how things went for me.

Good luck with your first grow


----------



## pabloezekiel (May 18, 2009)

Yeah the depth is like the width it would be W 2'6"-D2'6"-3'8" and yeah budget it's a huge thing for me right now and things down here in Argentina are not as cheap and you can't really get everything for example the Y adapters and things of that sort. But growing it's a must for me because weed down here it's cheap in price and quality for example if I spend 50pesos (around U$S20) I get a brick of 18 to 25g of weed but the quality it's not great. So I hope this works fine for personal use.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 18, 2009)

I think you'll be able to produce some high quality marijuana using the lights and space described above, but sufficient nutrients and a good grow medium are vital to producing the kind of bud you're looking for. I'm guessing you're using soil?


----------



## pabloezekiel (May 18, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> I think you'll be able to produce some high quality marijuana using the lights and space described above, but sufficient nutrients and a good grow medium are vital to producing the kind of bud you're looking for. I'm guessing you're using soil?


Yes I'm using soil I thought of going Hydro but I think I'll do it next time don't want to spend all the money at once rather improve my set up as I learn...so right now I'm searching for the best nutes that I can find and soil I thought of mixing perlite, compost, and a bag of dirt...


----------



## Babs34 (May 18, 2009)

*Just dropping in to quickly note that you CAN get the 4 dollar refill bag of crystals at Lowes. Like I said, it's with the cleaning supplies....where candles are, bottom shelf. ;;;;damn, I'm good. No need to order it online.*
*I'm at Lowes almost on a daily basis. There are quite a few employees at Lowes who will give you that look like you're a damn fool. Chalk it up as they are just clueless and hate their jobs. Customers have a better chance of finding something asking me vs. an employee that SHOULD know.*
*I hope you are getting your sand from aisle 14..cheaper and less chance of having lil bugs in them. (playsand)*
*Now, the guys at the hydro store give it to me straight....I just look at them and say, "Now that Clearex stuff, I don't REALLY need that." They know I know better. PLUS, they give me FREEBIES!!!*
*LOL, can you tell I'm frugal?*
*Let me know how you think that stuff works....I still can't figure out what it's doing. I was using it for my car--some jackass broke into my car to take my stereo (among other things)....so now, my car has been rained in---the smell was not pleasant to say the least. *


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 19, 2009)

Maybe I was looking in the wrong section at Lowes, but I gave it a thorough twice over and couldn't find it. I got it at home depot--right next door--so whatever. They do appear to be working though. They have turned from crystals to the consistency of cottage cheese. Literally, you could pour it out onto a plate and tell someone it was cottage cheese and they wouldn't be able to tell. But who eats cottage cheese anyway?

It's hard to say exactly how much they are lowering the RH, but it is doing something. The veg room now stays about 45% all the time...I could probably let that one get higher because they are vegging, but I like low humidity. The flower room, which was around 70% at night (with no real movement of the air...yikes...) is now about 50%. I think that has more to do with the fan I'm running 24/7 than the crystals, but they are probably helping too. The veg room leaks some light around the edges of the closet doors, which is the reason I was blocking off the flower room with the curtain. I was also cutting off air circulation and increasing the risk of bud rot...whoops.

So now I've corrected the problem and can only hope things didn't get moldy. I was looking at tall girl yesterday, and noticed some coloring that was a tad bit unsettling...

So please have a look and let me know what you think. Here's Tall girl. Main cola is projecting new growth.






Here's the top, and the area I'm concerned about--kinda brown, kinda purple, kinda not the same color as the rest of it. I didn't break it open and inspect inside, but it didn't smell funny. 






Another shot. Ignore the cat hair, it just gets everywhere.






And another






And another. It doesn't seem to be happening anywhere else, just the top of the top. Maybe its turning purple?






Wide girl. Doing fine, just fine.






No signs of mold or rot here. I did kinda peel her open a bit, but found nothing out of the ordinary.






She is fantastic.






Nice closeup shot of something...some calyxes, but not sure where on the plant they were...kinda looks like the top though...






Shorty.






I just laugh when I look at how thick that cola is.






Close up.






Teenagers. Maybe young adults even now. I think these three are the same genes--they are all just bagseed (again), but these girls look identical.






Their tops. Shitty pic. Sorry.






I figured out how to more effectively check the trichomes...just put the damn microscope against the bud, duh. I zoom it all the way and move the scope to focus on the trichs. I was surprised to find some amber trichs on all of them. Maybe they are a little closer to harvest than I thought?

I'm going to use the final flush stuff I got--only 10ml per 5 litres, so it doesn't take very much. Can't hurt, and I may want to harvest a little sooner so I want it as flushed as I can get.

I did some perusing of the FAQ's last night and found some interesting info on flushing and its effects. Some argue it's actually bad to flush, and the nasty taste people experience is from improper drying/curing and not inadequate flush time. Who knows. I'm flushing at LEAST once more.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 19, 2009)

Oh, and I'm chopping off all the dead leaves at 8pm when they wake up for the day.


----------



## pabloezekiel (May 19, 2009)

I'm not sure what could be wrong with them but they sure look perty!


----------



## mared juwan (May 19, 2009)

I wonder who said flushing is bad. I've never heard that one before. They must prefer the feeling of chemical burn in their mouth while smoking LOL. But yea I like the super zoom pics on the older plants. Nice and frosty there. And the 2nd generation is looking beautiful. Way to go man.


----------



## warisnottheanswer (May 19, 2009)

pabloezekiel said:


> I'm not sure what could be wrong with them but they sure look perty!


lookin great jerry


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 19, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> I wonder who said flushing is bad. I've never heard that one before. They must prefer the feeling of chemical burn in their mouth while smoking LOL. But yea I like the super zoom pics on the older plants. Nice and frosty there. And the 2nd generation is looking beautiful. Way to go man.


https://www.rollitup.org/view.php?pg=faq&cmd=article&id=644

The summary section pretty much explains it. Just throwing that out there.

Thanks mared, they're coming down soon...


----------



## Sleepless (May 19, 2009)

https://www.rollitup.org/view.php?pg=faq&cmd=article&id=644Turning purple you say? I certainly don't see any purple


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 19, 2009)

Sleepless said:


> Turning purple you say? I certainly don't see any purple


Like I said, more a brown than a purple...but certainly not green. It's hard to see under all those tichomes 

I think I overreacted after reading so much about bud rot...I inspected all the main colas thoroughly (to the stem from thickest part of the main cola) and found no sign of rot, so the color change must be natural. Checking the trichs again today I think they are a couple days away still. Mostly cloudy, still some clear, and a couple amber. I'm going to snip a few buds tonight or tomorrow night, maybe one from each, to test the early harvest high


----------



## discobisco (May 19, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> I'm going to snip a few buds tonight or tomorrow night, maybe one from each, to test the early harvest high


 
snip it! snip it!  

did u see yet another reason to quit smoking cigarettes now? well atleast u have until January 1. haha

chronic is king. tabacco can suck one


----------



## Tatan (May 20, 2009)

Hey Jerry, plants are looking great !
About the brown-purple color... im thinking its more than likely just a sign of the plant maturing and not bud rot.
Your plants have so many brown pistils that I was kind of expecting you to find a bunch of amber trichs. About when to harvest.. that just depends on what percentage of ambver trichs you want... 

Great job man.. and the young ones are looking nice as well


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 20, 2009)

Thanks T. Still no sign of bud rot or mold, so I'm feeling alright about whatever is going on with the color.

I snipped 3 lower small buds today. Probably spent 20 minutes trimming, and they aren't very big. I ran some string through a cardboard box and hung the buds in that. I want it to be out of direct light as much as possible. I've got a 12" oscillating fan moving air in/around the box, but not blowing directly at it. The wet weight of shorty's bud was 4.2, and tall girl was 2.4 (could have been a little more but I accidentally took off a little chunk while trimming). I didn't weigh wide girls bud, but it isn't very big. 

I checked the trichs on all the plants as soon as they woke up, and I'm just not quite sure what I'm seeing. The trichs that are amber are clear with a hint of amber and colored on both the head and the stalk. I'm not sure if these count as "amber" because they are so close to being clear. Either way, there aren't very many of them yet. The cloudy trichs are only cloudy in the heads, and predominate the landscape. Still, the trichs on the newer growth are mostly clear.

But these amber/clear ones are just wigging me out. I've seen plenty of pics of amber trichs that have amber little heads, but these definitely do not. Maybe I need a stronger scope...I'll try with a 60x, but I can see them pretty well with my 30x.

So I've got 3 little buds. I'll let them dry in their box and then try them out. Or maybe I'll cure it the full 30 days and compare that to a full cure of the later harvested buds...but probably I'll just smoke them when they're dry.

I collected all the leaves--larger stemmed leaves went in one small box, smaller crystally bud leaves went into a smaller box. I left the lid open and put them in the same box with the buds to dry.

I took a couple pics...I'll get them up a little later.


----------



## ecsmoker (May 20, 2009)

i just read through your whole grow journal...impressive my man...shoot some pictures up of the bud when u smoke ittt ahhhh my mouth waters just looking at these pictures


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 21, 2009)

ecsmoker said:


> i just read through your whole grow journal...impressive my man...shoot some pictures up of the bud when u smoke ittt ahhhh my mouth waters just looking at these pictures


Thanks ec, I hope it was an informative read.

The bud on the left is Shorty, the middle is Wide girl and the right is Tall girl. I think I did an ok job for my first trim.






Here's a closer shot. Wide girl turned out a little smaller than I thought...oh well, this is just a test anyway. I didn't leave much stem because there were smaller buds still on the branches that just looked a little premature. There's enough stem left though.






Rise up this morning, smile with the rising sun. Three little buds, sitting by my doorstep. Singing sweet songs, of sensimilla pure and true...


----------



## crackers420 (May 21, 2009)

Does cat litter kill your plants i need to know from you profesionals?


----------



## WII (May 21, 2009)

right you need constant watering maybe a cup full once a day...in the morning, you most definitely need a decent small fan....turn it on all the time.


----------



## Tatan (May 21, 2009)

Congrats Jerry ! I hope your test buds dry soon so you can take a little taste.

About your trichs.. I would just wait a couple of days, and see if you start getting more amber heads.


----------



## mared juwan (May 21, 2009)

Nice Jerry. I pay attention to the heads of the trichomes. Takes a lot of practice to get the magnifier to focus on what you want it to and even then it is hard to tell what exact color you are seeing. Some strains have very distinct amber heads that are almost black. Some will only yellow a bit. I generally don't see clear, cloudy, and amber all at the same time but I'm not looking at the shafts, just the heads. lmao


----------



## dylan566 (May 21, 2009)

Great looking buds Jerry!! 

Be sure to tell us all how those sample buds smoke!!


----------



## Denzel (May 21, 2009)

Hey Jerry, i just read through your whole journal and it was a pretty exciting read!
I hope everything goes well for you!


----------



## crackers420 (May 22, 2009)

Does cat litter kill ur plants and can u just use miracle grow potting mix for soil?


----------



## mared juwan (May 22, 2009)

What is this cat litter stuff about? Do you plan to mix it with the soil? If so, why? I wouldn't use Miracle Gro either if you can possibly help it. You want soil that doesn't already have nutes in it. Try Pro-mix #4. It is the best readily available soil for m.j.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 22, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> but I'm not looking at the shafts, just the heads. lmao


Ha ha.

Thanks mared, I needed that chuckle. The trichs are still cloudy/clear-amber when I put the scope directly on the buds, but I checked the trichs of a small bud I quick dried on the toaster (by far the best method I've found) and there were a couple really dark/black amber heads as you described. So, I guess it's still a bit on the early side, but perfect for me to start my comparison.

About the toaster...it's a very easy method to quick dry without ruining taste/potency...read it in the faq's. Basically, you put some foil over the top of the toaster, creating a little dugout within the slots for bread, and run the toaster on the lowest setting, allowing it to get hot for no longer than a minute. The foil blocks the slot and creates a significant amount of residual heat, which is why you only need to run it for a minute at a time. You then let it sit for 5-10 minutes and heat it up again. After about a half hour you've got a smokable bud, depending on the size of it. I choose very very small buds no larger than a bowl pack to test, so they dry quickly and rather evenly. Read the faq's for a better description of how it works.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 22, 2009)

Thanks for stopping by everyone else! I've got my cat's litterbox in the bathroom in which my grow room is located and it doesn't affect the plants. I wouldn't use it as a growing medium or mix it in with one.

Miracle grow pretty much sucks, but some people still use it and grow good buds. If you've got nothing else, it should be fine.


----------



## Evil Buddies (May 23, 2009)

if ur going to use the cat litter its best to get a non scented one


----------



## Babs34 (May 23, 2009)

Why would anyone even consider using cat litter?


----------



## discobisco (May 23, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> Why would anyone even consider using cat litter?


 

Ima go out on a long one here and guess that maybe he has.... a cat.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 23, 2009)

discobisco said:


> Ima go out on a long one here and guess that maybe he has.... a cat.


I think she meant to use it as a growing medium or soil additive...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 23, 2009)

Enough about the cat litter already, lets get down to business. The buds I plucked the other day have dried, and the early returns are mostly positive. They got considerably smaller during the dry (loss of ~75-80%, as expected) but all three turned out different. Shorty's bud, which was the largest, has the "hay" smell...leading me to believe she has dried out too quickly. Conditions in the box are 81 degrees and 51% RH, and the fan only blows on the box indirectly. I'm going to harvest a couple more tonight and try again, this time with minimal fan breeze.

I sampled all three buds between last night and today, and all taste clean but a little hollow (if that makes sense...). It smokes as if the psychoactive chemicals aren't quite where they should be, which is good because I didn't think they looked very done. I was able to identify one or two amber trichomes on all the buds, but that's it. They just aren't quite ready yet.

Shorty tastes the best so far, with tall girl a close second. Wide girl still has some improving to do, but I'm not worried about her. It's been a few hours since I smoked last so I'm going sample wide girl again.

In the first stage of my "head" high vs. "body" stone comparison, I can safely say harvesting early DOES IN FACT PROVIDE MORE OF A "HEAD" HIGH. When I hit these early buds, I feel high but focused. It's almost like an incomplete high--I know I'm high, but I don't _feel_ it the way I usually do, except in my head. So, we'll see how the rest of the high's compare. I should really take an early bud and cure it to compare with later harvested and cured buds...that will be step two I suppose.

I've only got one pic to include today...I've been slacking again, sorry. It shows the shrinkage of the buds compared to their first harvest. The older girls all look the same as they have for a week or so. I gave another feeding of water yesterday, this time filtered brita water from my tap, pH'd to 6.8. The runoff was decidedly more light yellow than the last two flushes, which I guess means its working.

Note how small shorty's bud got compared to the other day. Wide girl remained rather dense, while tall girl really loosened up and was surprisingly whispy. I took an early sample from wide girl, requiring me to cut her string. I just bent the stem and slipped it over the string.






I just need to make sure I can dry them evenly and slowly and I should be ready to harvest. Now I'm just waiting on those trichomes...

The teenagers are all doing pretty good. The lower leaves are yellowing up on the three identical girls, probably from nutrient deficiency (I haven't added any nutes really, so they've been living off the soil). The topped ones are having a difficult time adjusting back to the veg cycle. The leaves started to droop and grow a little wonky, but they should be back on track now. They too have received no nutrients, and probably could use a good feeding.

I like using this current batch as experimental...I've got a good idea now of how long the nutrients in my soil will last before I need to start adding (I've gone about a week+ over that line and it's starting to show). And the topped one's all responded well and look to have 4 main cola's, just growing slow for right now.

The one top I used as a clone is also doing fine, however it isn't really growing. It's clearly alive, and looking good, but it's just not getting any bigger. We'll see how the next few days go, but I'm sure she has rooted well by now.

I'll get some pictures up later tonight...


----------



## Babs34 (May 23, 2009)

*Now, you just know I'm going to add my two cents here--despite what others think. When you describe the "hay taste"....I'm thinking not enough of a flush. This is why I do a gradual flush---just doesn't make sense that you could properly do one all in one flush..*
*Personally, I find the best alternative to a "quick cure" for slightly up to par tasting is to just go through a quick series of steps. After drooling and tying my hands for so long--the day comes where I go for it. I'm with you......I like the more up buzz. I can't stand being "lazy." I don't use the scope.....no measuring trichs, etc. The truth is, I just don't need it. My instincts are most always correct.*
*To "start off" the "tasters cure"........I place it on my window sill for at least a full 24 hours--flipping as needed. I figure the sun not only allows it to dry out more quickly, but also contributes to another days blooming period.*
*Note I've tried ALL of the "quick cures".......this I feel works best. I typically begin this process for a day in the beginning....and at night time hang them to dry in my mini cabinet with ciruclating air. If you find that the bud is still too moist after that period, you can "lightly nuke" the bud in the microwave. When I say "lightly"......I MEAN it. The truth is that the bud dried off its stem for a day is sufficient enough to dry "in part." It usually only takes yet another day of 3 or 4 times "nuking" in the microwave for only a few seconds at the LOWEST level-------AND wrapped lightly around at least 2 paper towels. (You know, I get antsy....particularly because I don't purchase the stuff.)*
*When I first made my attempts at tasting, I tried heaters, among a few other things. I say NATURAL heat is best to give you that "honest" essence.*
*Regarding your teenagers...I personally think it would be best to start them out with a very light feeding---say, fish emulsion. Build up from there.*
*One last thing to note--obviously, on my last grow, I was fighting fungus gnats with all my might. This just stunts the growth overall with them wreaking havoc. I decided to harvest early---trust me, it made sense to. I wish I knew how to upload pictures, but matters not........here's the visual. I did my flush as normally any person would and I then ripped my plants from their home-------bare roots flushed OVER AND OVER. I kept my plants with only roots exposed in a strainer to continue its "final" blooming period---at which time I sprayed the hell out of it with the sweet stuff.....fan running naturally. Like cooking, it is an art.*
*Brilliant instints to keep a bud off of each to the side to taste LATER. I did the very same thing. Take my word, it is well worth the wait.*
* You are absolutely correct.......it's all about experimenting---DESPITE what you will be drilled with by fellow RIU members. *


----------



## tilemaster (May 23, 2009)

how messy wuz that pulln ur roots out and strainin them in the sink shower? Fk that. Garcia.. good luck on harvesting!


----------



## Babs34 (May 24, 2009)

tilemaster said:


> how messy wuz that pulln ur roots out and strainin them in the sink shower? Fk that. Garcia.. good luck on harvesting!


 *VERY messy, but I'm a clean freak.*
*Well worth the effort I might add to get rid of all that crappy soil loaded with larvae. It's been the battle from hell, but I'm almost home. When I start growing some quality seed, I'll be gnat free.*


----------



## Tatan (May 24, 2009)

Thank you Jerry, that was a very good smoke report. Like yourself im new to growing, and your post got me thinking about the mind vs body high, and maybe ill let some of plants go longer now to see the difference.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 24, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Now, you just know I'm going to add my two cents here--despite what others think. When you describe the "hay taste"....I'm thinking not enough of a flush. This is why I do a gradual flush---just doesn't make sense that you could properly do one all in one flush..*
> *Personally, I find the best alternative to a "quick cure" for slightly up to par tasting is to just go through a quick series of steps. After drooling and tying my hands for so long--the day comes where I go for it. I'm with you......I like the more up buzz. I can't stand being "lazy." I don't use the scope.....no measuring trichs, etc. The truth is, I just don't need it. My instincts are most always correct.*
> *To "start off" the "tasters cure"........I place it on my window sill for at least a full 24 hours--flipping as needed. I figure the sun not only allows it to dry out more quickly, but also contributes to another days blooming period.*
> *Note I've tried ALL of the "quick cures".......this I feel works best. I typically begin this process for a day in the beginning....and at night time hang them to dry in my mini cabinet with ciruclating air. If you find that the bud is still too moist after that period, you can "lightly nuke" the bud in the microwave. When I say "lightly"......I MEAN it. The truth is that the bud dried off its stem for a day is sufficient enough to dry "in part." It usually only takes yet another day of 3 or 4 times "nuking" in the microwave for only a few seconds at the LOWEST level-------AND wrapped lightly around at least 2 paper towels. (You know, I get antsy....particularly because I don't purchase the stuff.)*
> ...


 Well you're probably right about the hay taste--I only flushed for like 4 days before I took the samples, so that is probably my issue. They taste nice though, all of them!

As for quick drying--I'm pretty content with my toaster method, as it provided the quickest dry with minimal destruction of trichs. I tried the oven method and fried those little suckers off in 2 minutes. The toaster method is much more regulated--still not perfect, but minimal loss for quickest dry in my opinion.

I've seen probably one gnat during my watering/examination periods...only a few in hiding and thats about it. No infestation, no visible larva in the soil...just one or two who like the sweet aroma (can't really blame them, right?). So I don't really feel the need to take decisive action, even though an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure 

I checked the trichs again yesterday...still mostly cloudy heads, though I did notice a few of the STALKS began to turn amber, but the heads were still clear/cloudy. But it was only a couple and only on one wide girl. Either way, they've got a little while to go, which means they'll get at the very least one more water flush before the big harvest.

Sorry no pics, I ended up going out of town for the evening...but I'll make it up to everyone with a compendium of images tonight--well, maybe not a compendium, you already know what they look like (it really hasn't changed much in the last few days). I also didn't harvest any more last night (because I left right after the lights came on) so I'll be sure to pluck another few buds tonight.



tilemaster said:


> how messy wuz that pulln ur roots out and strainin them in the sink shower? Fk that. Garcia.. good luck on harvesting!


Thanks for stopping by tilemaster!



Tatan said:


> Thank you Jerry, that was a very good smoke report. Like yourself im new to growing, and your post got me thinking about the mind vs body high, and maybe ill let some of plants go longer now to see the difference.


Experimentation is the name of the game...but I don't need to tell YOU that Mr. Pink Widow!


----------



## tilemaster (May 24, 2009)

ur welcome..ill be following ur chop...and again good luck my friend!


----------



## Sleepless (May 24, 2009)

Looking good gibrone, I haven't checked up on this thread for quite some time and your plants seem to be coming along just swell!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 25, 2009)

Hello again boys and girls. My apologies again for being a slacker about my thread--life just gets in the way sometimes. Anyway, we're at day 67 of flower and my amber trichs are still seemingly AWOL. Again, lots of cloudy and clear and clearish-amber, but the solid amber heads are just not there. I worry maybe I'm not seeing them properly...maybe I need a better scope...maybe I'm just impatient and need to keep waiting...

I snipped 3 more little buds last night--shorty was 5.6, tall girl was 2.4 and wide girl was 2.6. Again, I went for the smallest buds I could find. Trimming these little things took just about an hour...I can't image what trimming the entire plant will be like--my eyes were already getting blurry by the end of the hour...

I got some new scissors from walmart yesterday (I hate shopping there, and as a rule I tend to avoid it, but I needed another thermometer/hygrometer and they have the cheapest at under $7). The scissors are awesome! They are Westcott brand titanium little scissors that have a curved tip. I thought the tip was going to be stupid, but boy I was wrong. These things make trimming much more precise, and really allow you to get into the bud and snip out those fan leaf stems. Still, its going to take freaking forever to trim them all...

The plants in the veg room are doing OK...my biggest topped plant's stems are turning purple, undoubtedly from a deficiency (I still haven't given any nutes...) and she just seems unhappy that I took her from flower to veg. She's probably been flowering for a couple weeks, was then topped and put back into veg. I think I waited too long to put it back to veg...oh well, it was experimental anyway. The other three seem to be doing better, but they will need some nutrients and larger pots today if I want to keep them alive.

One of the young plants in the flower room was staying really short, so I decided maybe I would try some supercropping on her--well, I over supercropped and snapped her stem almost clean in two. Whoops. I kinda put it back together and wrapped some duct tape around it. I don't really care about it, but it will be interesting to see how much stress a plant can really come back from. It looks funny now though with the silver duct tape. Otherwise, things are the same. The cloned top still is not growing, but looks healthy. The others are slowly yellowing, and will be given nutrients this evening.

Tall girl.






Some lower buds






A blurry top shot...sorry...







Middle buds






Wide girl






Her beautiful top






Her bottom branches...can you tell where I've been taking samples?






Shorty.






No small buds on this fine lady.






Little ones.






So we'll see where things go from here. I'll try to get some pics of the small drying buds up later


----------



## Babs34 (May 25, 2009)

*Save this bud for me....*





I say they are ready. That's about as many red hairs as I would ever want.
I'm just curious......why did you taste from the bottom, and not mid-way? Seriously, sample one from each site.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 26, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Save this bud for me....*
> 
> I say they are ready. That's about as many red hairs as I would ever want.
> I'm just curious......why did you taste from the bottom, and not mid-way? Seriously, sample one from each site.


There are a series of those middle buds on tall girl, so don't worry about that!

No real reason I've been taking from the bottom, just trying to find the smallest buds I could.

I gave them all another watering today. Also gave some nutrients to the younger plants. Three of the topped ones are almost back to normal vegging, but one just doesn't quite want to switch back. So I topped 2 of her colas again, giving 4 more I guess. We'll see if she can turn it around.

Still nothing on the amber trichome front. The plants don't look like they can be more ready, and I really don't want to miss my window of maximum THC. There are plenty of clearish-amber trichs, but they are literally so light they aren't easily distinguished from the clear ones. But they DEFINITELY have a hint of amber.

Next round of test buds should be ready tomorrow for my sampling pleasure.


----------



## mared juwan (May 26, 2009)

I've found that the last days of a plants life you have to go completely against your instincts and let it die a slow death. In the beginning I kept wanting to have super healthy plants all the way until harvest but that is not natural and doesn't give the best results. Now I flush until my leaves look like a tree in autumn. Yellows and purples and blacks. The plant will actually bulk up the buds quite a bit more when feeding off of itself rather than the nutes from the soil. Don't be worried about yellowed and dying leaves at this point.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 26, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> I've found that the last days of a plants life you have to go completely against your instincts and let it die a slow death. In the beginning I kept wanting to have super healthy plants all the way until harvest but that is not natural and doesn't give the best results. Now I flush until my leaves look like a tree in autumn. Yellows and purples and blacks. The plant will actually bulk up the buds quite a bit more when feeding off of itself rather than the nutes from the soil. Don't be worried about yellowed and dying leaves at this point.


Yeah, it's tough to wait. I find it interesting though that many "sources" around tell you to harvest by the color of the pistils. If I were doing that I would probably chop them today. Like, right this very second.

But I've been diligently observing the trichs, and they just don't have the solid amber heads...

Took some pics...gonna post them up later...


----------



## Babs34 (May 26, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> Yeah, it's tough to wait. I find it interesting though that many "sources" around tell you to harvest by the color of the pistils. If I were doing that I would probably chop them today. Like, right this very second.
> 
> But I've been diligently observing the trichs, and they just don't have the solid amber heads...
> 
> Took some pics...gonna post them up later...


Argh....I just know you are not referring to me as one of those "sources." ......I just LOVE the earlier harvest....and that means less red hairs. When every last hair turns red, it's typical of it drying to the point of the crystals actually diminishing. I would take harvesting a day to three earlier rather than 3 days too late, know what I mean?
Crazy, long day. I hope that made sense.
.....or maybe I just need to experience the joy of growing a "true" sativa.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 27, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> Argh....I just know you are not referring to me as one of those "sources." ......I just LOVE the earlier harvest....and that means less red hairs. When every last hair turns red, it's typical of it drying to the point of the crystals actually diminishing. I would take harvesting a day to three earlier rather than 3 days too late, know what I mean?
> Crazy, long day. I hope that made sense.
> .....or maybe I just need to experience the joy of growing a "true" sativa.


LOL...I totally was NOT referring to you as a source Babs, as you make the daily caveat that you go by "instinct" and "feel" rather than conventional wisdom. Which is totally cool by the way--I'm just not experienced enough to go with my gut quite yet. Other sites that purportedly teach you how to grow marijuana indicate that you harvest based on the pistils and make no mention of trichs whatsoever.

And I definitely know what you mean about harvesting early vs. late--that's why I'm so concerned about my situation--I don't want to be late and miss my window of optimum potency. And those amber trichs are just not there yet...at least not the solid headed amber ones. I'm on day 67 or so today...and waiting...


----------



## Sleepless (May 27, 2009)

I commend your diligence, Jerry.

rep and cheers,
Sleepless


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 27, 2009)

Sleepless said:


> I commend your diligence, Jerry.
> 
> rep and cheers,
> Sleepless


Thanks and back at ya sleepless


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 27, 2009)

So I finally have a few minutes to throw an update out there. All the dried buds have been removed from strings and placed into a jar for curing (and smoking). The smaller buds each came to a meager 0.6 grams, while shorty's 5.6 gram bud came in at 1.3 dry. Doing the math it is almost exactly a 75% loss of weight. Kinda sucks, but what can you do.

This batch of testers seems more potent than the last. Not much different of a high for me, still rather cerebral, but possibly stronger. I don't know though, it's hard to gauge something like that. We'll see as the testing process continues.

I forgot to mention that a few days ago one of my teenage girls decided she didn't want to be _all_ girl and started growing balls. By the time I noticed she had grown quite an elaborate set of them. Not sure what caused it to hermie...probably just the fact it came from bagseed. The others all seem fine and are budding up well, despite losing most of their fan leaves.

The big girls seem to be doing fine. While checking the trichs on Tall girl I thought she felt a little drier than normal. Not excessively dry, but dry nonetheless. I'm probably wrong...humidity is around 58% at night and 40% during the day. I've got an oscillating fan blowing on them 24/7 now (I had to forgo my curtain system of blocking light because the humidity kept getting too high, and I think moving the air to prevent budrot is more important than a little light leaking from the veg room).

Tall girl's top.






Lower little nugs. Not gonna weigh as much as I hoped...





Middle buds. Still haven't sampled one of these yet.







Side bud and cat hair.






Wide girl,






Top shot.






Another top shot.






Frosty little nugget of calyxes.






Side bud.






The triplets.






I need names to distinguish these girls apart






Nice little bud though.






Even some trichs!






Another girl.






Some of them have calyxes that are so large they look like seeds...I hope they aren't really seeds...I don't think they are...the calyxes just look like they are about to split.






Clone on the left, over-supercropped-repaired-with-duct-tape-girl on the right.







Still waiting for the trichs. I'm hoping by the end of the weekend things be ready...


----------



## mared juwan (May 27, 2009)

Wow, awesome update dude. They do look to me me from appearances that they are just about done. Should be any time now. You don't have to chop all three at once anyway. You're not going to want to after trimming the first one anyway LOL. The younger plants look great too. That's crazy that they have absolutely no branching whatsoever.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (May 28, 2009)

Thanks Mared. After trimming three little buds for one hour I certainly don't want to sit and trim all these girls at once.

I have began to notice the top buds on Tall girl and Wide girl are starting to feel a little dry...should I just cut one/both of them tonight to make sure they don't dry out too much while still on the plant? I'll probably leave 1/2 the side/middle buds for another couple days, again for comparison of the high, but I think if I wait too long for the top buds they will dry out before I harvest them, which probably isn't good...or is it?

I'm gonna post another thread and ask...but any info/input from you all would be appreciated as well!


----------



## mared juwan (May 29, 2009)

Hmmm, yea I might have to defer to someone else for advice on that. I try not to touch my buds if I can help it. Of course accidentally it happens but I've never really taken note of the dryness of the bud. But IDK if you're noticing a sudden change maybe it's time to give it the axe.


----------



## Babs34 (May 31, 2009)

*OK, I'm just going to say it......Chop time. And I await the pictures of the cured bud......in every stage, LOL. LOVE the babies you have going on too. (Nag time--keep the sand going on the surface--til you see NO trace of those "things.")*

*You know, since you are not re-vegging and if you really wanted to "experiment".....you could just harvest the top, and then give the mid and bottom a "bit" more time. BUT, I really think it makes it a bit more interesting tasting from every site, but I said that already, didn't I?The worst case scenario is that it goes to seed...and in your case, that would be minimal seeds. That's not the worst thing that could happen, right?*

*BTW, I hope you realize I was just light heartedly messing with you earlier. I realize I can be a bit unconventional........what works just works. "Peace"*


----------



## Sleepless (Jun 1, 2009)

Hey, if you're planning on chopping those beauties now, you should make sure to get the slow dry and cure right. I don't talk from experience, but there seems to be an overwhelming majority of RIUers who believe this. Here's a sweet guide, and the guy actually says that you shouldn't trim all at once, you trim selectively at different steps in the drying process. Check it out
https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/120624-want-bag-appeal-curing-matters.html


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jun 1, 2009)

It has been five days since my last update. Definitely a new record for me. I spent the weekend in a cabin on Portsmouth Island (part the outer banks of North Carolina) and was unable to check the plants for a few days.

Many things have changed since the last update. For starters, I chopped the main colas on all three girls. Hooray! Don't get too excited though, as the axe fell for a reason...*SEEDS 

******

*That about sums up the range of emotions I experienced when my girlfriend said "what is that?" while pointing to a seed protruding from the lower bud of wide girl (*this happened on Thursday evening 5/28/09). After fully inspecting all three plants it was clear they were pollinated. The seeds looked very premature, so pollination must have occurred recently...I am fairly certain it was from the little plant that I noticed turned hermie about a week ago. It had a fair number of ball sacks, but none appeared to have split open. It could have been one of the other girls pushing out a banana somewhere I couldn't see, but I'm betting it was the hermie.

So I discovered this on Thursday night, and I was scheduled to leave for my trip on Friday morning at 5am. I decided the best course of action was to harvest the main colas to keep them as seedless as possible. Beginning with tall girl, I harvested and trimmed her main cola.

Here it is pre-trim. Not too much trimming required for this one...I finished in about half an hour.






After trimming tall girl, I took a similar sized cut of the main cola from wide girl. Substantially more leaves meant a much longer trimming session of about an hour.






Here is Tall girl (left) and Wide girl (Right) after trim and hanging to dry.






Unfortunately, I failed to photograph the cola of shorty pre-trim. She was way more leafy than Wide girl and required over an hour to trim. She is hanging in the front right in the below image.






After all that trimming it was 1:30am and I needed to leave by 5, so I called it a night and left the remaining parts of the plants to mature for a few more days. Here's what they looked like when I got home last night. Tall on left, wide in middle, shorty on right.






Shorty






Wide girl






Tall girl






Unfortunately, these three plants were not the only females in the room when the pollination occurred. Remember how I said the calyxes look so fat they resemble seeds...? Yeah. Two of the three triplets are about as fully loaded with seeds as a plant can be, though one looks like she may have avoided the pollen altogether.

Seedy triplet #1.






Seedy Triplet #2






Not so seedy Triplet #3.






The seedy plants will not even be worth smoking, so I'm contemplating throwing them away. I don't really care about them, they were experimental bagseed anyway. Plus I have 4 topped plants to move into the veg room after they grow out a little more. Is there any point to keeping the seed-infested plants? I don't want the seeds...

I took a pair of tweesers and went to town on shorty, removing most of the seeds. While I did want to preserve the genetics of shorty because I love the way she grows, I don't think the seeds would be useful as they likely came from a hermie plant, so the seeds would be more likely to produce hermie plants...right? I left a few to grow out in case I want to keep some, but here are most of what I removed.







Finally, an exterior shot of the entire family. You can't really see from the pics, but the clone has finally begun to grow! It's probably 2" taller than when I left it! And she doesn't appear to have any seeds at all.






I wiped down the walls and replaced the plastic to try and limit the lingering pollen. Once the big girls have finished their life cycle completely I'm going to tear down the mylar and put up new stuff, as well as thoroughly scrubbing the entire space with bleach and/or rubbing alcohol to eliminate any remaining pollen.

I'm also going to start some of my real genetics today. A few blue cheese, the ppp, and maybe a thai super skunk. I've been thinking about germinating directly in the soil...any thoughts? I would just put it 1/4 inch below the surface and just water thoroughly...


----------



## Sleepless (Jun 1, 2009)

Dear Jerry,

FUCKSHITASSTBALLS! That fucking sucks! I was so incredibly devastated when I read your last post, I actually almost cried. This is truly a tragedy. I hope that you can recover from this tragic loss of your loved ones, and if you'd like me to give a eulogy at the funeral, I will gladly do that for you. I think I'm starting to tear up. AND HOLY SHIT that motherfucker is as seedy as Peter North! Maybe if you grow the little seedy ones out, you can use them for making hash oil? Nothing's worthless, in my opinion. Good luck, and just remember, it's okay to cry. But only by yourself when no one else is watching, because it's not cool.

+Rep for being a sensible and articulate human being who doesn't let the bad things get to him.

Love and empathy,
Sleepless


----------



## Sleepless (Jun 1, 2009)

Well, I was going to rep you, but apparently I have to rep some others before repping you again. I'LL BE BACK!


----------



## proman (Jun 1, 2009)

PH is key from what I have been reading.


----------



## Marcus66 (Jun 1, 2009)

Jerry, bummer about the hermies. As far as the two teenagers with seeds, perhaps you might think about letting one finish up. I mean, I'm a first time grower, and from what I've read, switching sexes could be either genetic or environment based. Two of my plants from bagseed decided to ball up and grow some seeds, and to be honest, I'm guessing that I screwed something up. Not suggesting anything, because, as I said, I'm just now reaching the harvest stage of my first grow and don't know jack, but an all female cast of characters in my next plant play sounds pretty enticing. What do ya think? By the way, the buds of Mr. Happy (one of the plants that opted to be true to his name and hermied up) also got extremely dry and brittle to the touch when I put it a bit too close to the light and is getting chopped tomorrow after 24 hour lights out. We'll see what happens. Good luck in all your endeavors.

excellent journal. I've found it to be something of a guide for MY first grow, and really appreciate it.


----------



## Marcus66 (Jun 1, 2009)

Jerry, bummer about the hermies. As far as the two teenagers with seeds, perhaps you might think about letting one finish up. I mean, I'm a first time grower, and from what I've read, switching sexes could be either genetic or environment based. Two of my plants from bagseed decided to ball up and grow some seeds, and to be honest, I'm guessing that I screwed something up. Not suggesting anything, because, as I said, I'm just now reaching the harvest stage of my first grow and don't know jack, but an all female cast of characters in my next plant play sounds pretty enticing. What do ya think? By the way, the buds of Mr. Happy (one of the plants that opted to be true to his name and hermied up) also got extremely dry and brittle to the touch when I put it a bit too close to the light and is getting chopped tomorrow after 24 hour lights out. We'll see what happens. Good luck in all your endeavors.

excellent journal. I've found it to be something of a guide for MY first grow, and really appreciate it.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jun 2, 2009)

Sleepless said:


> Dear Jerry,
> 
> FUCKSHITASSTBALLS! That fucking sucks! I was so incredibly devastated when I read your last post, I actually almost cried. This is truly a tragedy. I hope that you can recover from this tragic loss of your loved ones, and if you'd like me to give a eulogy at the funeral, I will gladly do that for you. I think I'm starting to tear up. AND HOLY SHIT that motherfucker is as seedy as Peter North! Maybe if you grow the little seedy ones out, you can use them for making hash oil? Nothing's worthless, in my opinion. Good luck, and just remember, it's okay to cry. But only by yourself when no one else is watching, because it's not cool.
> 
> ...


Thanks sleepless...I'm not quite THAT crushed by the situation, just a little disappointed in myself for permitting this situation to occur.

I though about using them for hash or oil, but they probably aren't even worth my time and nutrients. As I said, the young ones are experimental, so I am OK with the situation right now. And the big one's didn't get _too _seedy...thankfully it happened in the last weeks of flowering and not the first!


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jun 2, 2009)

Marcus66 said:


> Jerry, bummer about the hermies. As far as the two teenagers with seeds, perhaps you might think about letting one finish up. I mean, I'm a first time grower, and from what I've read, switching sexes could be either genetic or environment based. Two of my plants from bagseed decided to ball up and grow some seeds, and to be honest, I'm guessing that I screwed something up. Not suggesting anything, because, as I said, I'm just now reaching the harvest stage of my first grow and don't know jack, but an all female cast of characters in my next plant play sounds pretty enticing. What do ya think? By the way, the buds of Mr. Happy (one of the plants that opted to be true to his name and hermied up) also got extremely dry and brittle to the touch when I put it a bit too close to the light and is getting chopped tomorrow after 24 hour lights out. We'll see what happens. Good luck in all your endeavors.
> 
> excellent journal. I've found it to be something of a guide for MY first grow, and really appreciate it.


Thanks Marcus. I'm not sure why the one plant hermed out on me...I think it was genetics, as the other plants were totally fine with their habitat to remain girls. Good luck with your chopping...it's quite the rewarding feeling!


----------



## Sleepless (Jun 2, 2009)

Hey Jerry, how do you get your sig to show updates like that?


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jun 2, 2009)

Sleepless said:


> Hey Jerry, how do you get your sig to show updates like that?


In order to have the link take you to the proper post (i.e. the most recent update), I copy the URL immediately after the update is posted. Then I just paste it in my "edit signature" section and I'm good to go.


----------



## Sleepless (Jun 2, 2009)

Huh, that's a lot simpler than I thought it would be.


----------



## FilthyFletch (Jun 3, 2009)

it took you almoist 2 hours to manicure and trim 2 colas? geezus dicks lol


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jun 3, 2009)

FilthyFletch said:


> it took you almoist 2 hours to manicure and trim 2 colas? geezus dicks lol


Maybe I was slow and overly meticulous, but yeah it took FOREVER.

I have since cut apart the colas and trimmed even more thoroughly...


----------



## Sleepless (Jun 4, 2009)

Hey Jerry!
How's the cure going? Pics?
Taken any more "tasters"?


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jun 6, 2009)

Hello all and sorry for my absence. The 3 big girls are just about fully harvested. True to my word I've been harvesting incrementally to compare the high from the early buds with the high from the later buds. I've been drying the buds with a combination hanging and bagging approach, where they hang for a few days then go to brown paper bags for a few before transferring to the jars. It has been working pretty well, though I find the wonderful smell gets lost a little bit during this stage. The buds that have been curing the longest (4 days) are starting to come around in smell, but they still have the fresh "hay" smell to some degree.

I've been smoking pieces of dried buds here and there, and they have been getting me high, but they are still a little harsh. So far I like tall girl's smoke the best, but we'll see after another 2+ weeks of curing.

As I said, there are still buds maturing on the big girls. I've also decided that I'm going to let some of seedy buds grow until the seeds have matured. While I will probably never want to grow any of these bagseed strains again, I might as well hang on to a few viable seeds, just in case...

I'm probably gonna harvest a little more tonight, give them one final watering, and give them 24+ hours of darkness. We had a brief discussion about that earlier, so I'm going to give it a try.

I trashed all the impregnated teenagers. They got knocked up at too young an age to produce anything but really seedy buds. The clone, however, appears to not only have doubled in height, but also shows no sign of seeds. Once the big girls are harvested completely I'm going to shut down the hps for a while (not worth the electricity required for the light and the a/c for one little plant) and use cfls. After the topped girls have vegged a little longer I'm going to move them into the flower room and then I can fire the hps back up.

I'm also going to start a new journal for the next round of seeds I planted on Thursday 6/4. After much deliberation, I elected to sow the seeds directly into the soil for germination. While the paper towel method has proven useful, I can't think of a reason why I shouldn't just plant them in the soil, water, and wait for them to sprout. So that's what I'm doing. I planted 2 feminized Blue Cheese, 1 feminized Pure Power, and 3 standard Thai Super Skunk. I've been considering going 100% organic, but I think I'll wait and do that for the clones I plan on taking.

Anyway, here are some pics of what's been going on.

Here are the 3 girls. Shorty in the back, tall in the middle and wide up front. Not too much left of them these days...






My first successful clone is about to be the only flowering plant I have. I guess I could move it back to veg, but I don't think I will.






Tall girl with a good chunk of flowers yet to be harvested.






Here's the scene in my box. All the hanging buds were taken down today--the larger ones went to a paper bag and the smaller ones went right to the jars. All those jars have something in them. Some not very much. And those two boxes of trim are going to be made into HASH. Probably using the gumby method.






Some of the hanging buds. Temp has been ~80 in the box and humidity ~50%. I open the jars 2-3 times daily, move the buds around (shaking lightly) and leave the tops off for 20 minutes or so. Probably overkill, but whatever.






The next generation...I've had my warm-up round, I'm ready for the real thing! The 2 Blue Cheese are in the square pots in back left, PPP is square pot in back right, and Thai Super Skunks are in the three 24oz plastic cups.






Here they are before going directly into the soil. I hope they germinate OK this way...







So there you have it. I'm gradually harvesting. I forgot to take pics of the topped plants...I'll try to remember tonight. They've all got 4 main colas alright, except one that has 2 but will grow into 6 because I topped part of it again.

I'll post a link to my new journal when I get around to making it. Don't hold your breath though, it will be a few days.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jun 6, 2009)

Hello all and sorry for my absence. The 3 big girls are just about fully harvested. True to my word I've been harvesting incrementally to compare the high from the early buds with the high from the later buds. I've been drying the buds with a combination hanging and bagging approach, where they hang for a few days then go to brown paper bags for a few before transferring to the jars. It has been working pretty well, though I find the wonderful smell gets lost a little bit during this stage. The buds that have been curing the longest (4 days) are starting to come around in smell, but they still have the fresh "hay" smell to some degree.

I've been smoking pieces of dried buds here and there, and they have been getting me high, but they are still a little harsh. So far I like tall girl's smoke the best, but we'll see after another 2+ weeks of curing.

As I said, there are still buds maturing on the big girls. I've also decided that I'm going to let some of seedy buds grow until the seeds have matured. While I will probably never want to grow any of these bagseed strains again, I might as well hang on to a few viable seeds, just in case...

I'm probably gonna harvest a little more tonight, give them one final watering, and give them 24+ hours of darkness. We had a brief discussion about that earlier, so I'm going to give it a try.

I trashed all the impregnated teenagers. They got knocked up at too young an age to produce anything but really seedy buds. The clone, however, appears to not only have doubled in height, but also shows no sign of seeds. Once the big girls are harvested completely I'm going to shut down the hps for a while (not worth the electricity required for the light and the a/c for one little plant) and use cfls. After the topped girls have vegged a little longer I'm going to move them into the flower room and then I can fire the hps back up.

I'm also going to start a new journal for the next round of seeds I planted on Thursday 6/4. After much deliberation, I elected to sow the seeds directly into the soil for germination. While the paper towel method has proven useful, I can't think of a reason why I shouldn't just plant them in the soil, water, and wait for them to sprout. So that's what I'm doing. I planted 2 feminized Blue Cheese, 1 feminized Pure Power, and 3 standard Thai Super Skunk. I've been considering going 100% organic, but I think I'll wait and do that for the clones I plan on taking.

Anyway, here are some pics of what's been going on.

Here are the 3 girls. Shorty in the back, tall in the middle and wide up front. Not too much left of them these days...






My first successful clone is about to be the only flowering plant I have. I guess I could move it back to veg, but I don't think I will.






Tall girl with a good chunk of flowers yet to be harvested.






Here's the scene in my box. All the hanging buds were taken down today--the larger ones went to a paper bag and the smaller ones went right to the jars. All those jars have something in them. Some not very much. And those two boxes of trim are going to be made into HASH. Probably using the gumby method.






Some of the hanging buds. Temp has been ~80 in the box and humidity ~50%. I open the jars 2-3 times daily, move the buds around (shaking lightly) and leave the tops off for 20 minutes or so. Probably overkill, but whatever.






The next generation...I've had my warm-up round, I'm ready for the real thing! The 2 Blue Cheese are in the square pots in back left, PPP is square pot in back right, and Thai Super Skunks are in the three 24oz plastic cups.






Here they are before going directly into the soil. I hope they germinate OK this way...







So there you have it. I'm gradually harvesting. I forgot to take pics of the topped plants...I'll try to remember tonight. They've all got 4 main colas alright, except one that has 2 but will grow into 6 because I topped part of it again.

I'll post a link to my new journal when I get around to making it. Don't hold your breath though, it will be a few days.


----------



## mared juwan (Jun 6, 2009)

Jerry, that's shitty news about the seeding. It's happened to me before but only like ten seeds in an entire plant. Anyways at least you'll have plenty of room for the new crop. I hope you grow those Blue Cheese into monsters. If it were me I would keep the G-13 Labs plants pretty small so they don't take up too much space and you can test them to see if they're any good. You will have clones from them and you can grow those bigger if the smoke is good. But I would try to get the Blue Cheese as big as you can right off the bat. You can pretty much be guaranteed that will be killer smoke. 

And I just made my first hash recently using the gumby method as well. About 1/4 full of a kitchen-size trashbag yielded 22 grams so that was pretty awesome. The siphoning part can be a little tricky and I recommend you save the siphon water to let settle and siphon again. I must have disturbed the hash at the bottom the first time I siphoned because when I did it again I yielded another 50% of what I got the first time. Also I've learned that once you have the finished product you don't want to press it for at least a week. It has to cure like buds and once you press it the resin glands will burst (also causing the color to darken) and the curing process will stop.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jun 11, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Jerry, that's shitty news about the seeding. It's happened to me before but only like ten seeds in an entire plant. Anyways at least you'll have plenty of room for the new crop. I hope you grow those Blue Cheese into monsters. If it were me I would keep the G-13 Labs plants pretty small so they don't take up too much space and you can test them to see if they're any good. You will have clones from them and you can grow those bigger if the smoke is good. But I would try to get the Blue Cheese as big as you can right off the bat. You can pretty much be guaranteed that will be killer smoke.
> 
> And I just made my first hash recently using the gumby method as well. About 1/4 full of a kitchen-size trashbag yielded 22 grams so that was pretty awesome. The siphoning part can be a little tricky and I recommend you save the siphon water to let settle and siphon again. I must have disturbed the hash at the bottom the first time I siphoned because when I did it again I yielded another 50% of what I got the first time. Also I've learned that once you have the finished product you don't want to press it for at least a week. It has to cure like buds and once you press it the resin glands will burst (also causing the color to darken) and the curing process will stop.


Thanks for the Hash advice. I don't have quite that much trim, but I'll be happy with whatever I can get out of it. What do you mean not "pressing" the finished product? After I spoon it out I should just let it sit for a while to cure?

And I certainly plan on growing out the blue cheeses into monsters. I vegged the last crop for about a month, so maybe I'll take these a little farther. I think I'll top one to get 4 colas and maybe supercrop the other. So far both Blue Cheese, the PPP, and 2 of the 3 Thai SS broke the surface.

I've been considering using the flower room to veg the plants under the 400w MH bulb that came with the setup. CFL's worked fine for my last grow, but I know the MH will really do wonders. My concern is using so much electricity, as I'll probably have to run the air conditioner while the light is on, and they are vegging for 18 hours so they use even more electricity. Maybe I can use the MH for a few hours and then just run CFL's?

I feel like the seedlings are growing a little more slowly this time around too...maybe the CFL's have lost some of their power? They are the same ones I used to veg my last grow...so they've probably been used for ~3 total months.


----------



## mared juwan (Jun 11, 2009)

Yea IDK I've been practicing more with making gumby hash. I don't think that the pressing time seems to matter as much as I was told. I've been doing it right away and it seems the same. By pressing I mean applying as much pressure as you can. When you siphon off all your water you will be left with a wet clay-like lump. I just put it in a plastic bag in the bottom corner and twist up the bag tight so the hash has no where to go and then I put it under a heavy table leg overnight. Will be ready to smoke in the morning. 

I don't think you should worry too much about electricity. Cost shouldn't be the problem because any watttage you use should produce a lot more valuable asset in the end. If you are worried about security then I'll say this. I run a 400watt Hps and a 600watt Hps at the same time plus a whole bunch of other shit like a 4amp dehumidifier and fans and such. And then there's my twelve 26watt CFL setup for veg. All this in a two bedroom apt. Plus I have a 42 inch plasma tv.


----------



## Evil Buddies (Jun 11, 2009)

I would rather get an 400w hps for flowering than a 400mh for vegging. Its all about the flowering and i bet u would notice the different in the buds. Plus u got to think of it this way when u veg u 18/6 or more that means more time the lights are on. Thats an extra 6 hrs per day elec consumption, i maybe wrong but i know what id be doing the hps over the mh anyday. Weed while flowering need more red light and the hps is the best for that to get more potency and bigger buds.

Anyone please correct me if im wrong thats just my opinion.

Evil


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jun 11, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Yea IDK I've been practicing more with making gumby hash. I don't think that the pressing time seems to matter as much as I was told. I've been doing it right away and it seems the same. By pressing I mean applying as much pressure as you can. When you siphon off all your water you will be left with a wet clay-like lump. I just put it in a plastic bag in the bottom corner and twist up the bag tight so the hash has no where to go and then I put it under a heavy table leg overnight. Will be ready to smoke in the morning.
> 
> I don't think you should worry too much about electricity. Cost shouldn't be the problem because any watttage you use should produce a lot more valuable asset in the end. If you are worried about security then I'll say this. I run a 400watt Hps and a 600watt Hps at the same time plus a whole bunch of other shit like a 4amp dehumidifier and fans and such. And then there's my twelve 26watt CFL setup for veg. All this in a two bedroom apt. Plus I have a 42 inch plasma tv.


I'll probably just bag it and put it under my bookshelf...that's pretty heavy. I'll take some pics of the process either way.

Regarding the electricity...I'm not worried about security, it is mostly cost. Though as I look at my 12 jars of curing bud I do realize the value of the asset...

But I'm always trying to minimize cost.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jun 11, 2009)

Evil Buddies said:


> I would rather get an 400w hps for flowering than a 400mh for vegging. Its all about the flowering and i bet u would notice the different in the buds. Plus u got to think of it this way when u veg u 18/6 or more that means more time the lights are on. Thats an extra 6 hrs per day elec consumption, i maybe wrong but i know what id be doing the hps over the mh anyday. Weed while flowering need more red light and the hps is the best for that to get more potency and bigger buds.
> 
> Anyone please correct me if im wrong thats just my opinion.
> 
> Evil


You're right. I got the MH setup thinking it was an HPS...ended up only costing $30 for light, ballast and reflector (because the seller mis-identified the equipment on their craigslist ad). So I got a 360w HPS conversion bulb (for my 400w system) and have been using it to flower for the 3 weeks or so of flower. Before that I was using a 150w hps.


----------



## Evil Buddies (Jun 11, 2009)

Your all good to go then jerry


----------



## purpisAMIAZING (Jun 12, 2009)

these look pretty good dude
id smoke it..cant wait for my plant to flower up like that


----------



## chickenphish (Jun 17, 2009)

that thai s skunk is gonna need a lot of room i have 1 left from the 5 free that i got very tall plant make sure u got the space or keep it at bay my plant is in 12/12 d 50 and it is a slow plant or i am a bad gardner but either way u gonna need plenty of room very nice grow by the way i have looked in on it a few times


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jun 17, 2009)

Thanks purpis and chickenphish. I've heard the same thing about the thai ss...that it gets real tall and takes it's sweet time in flower. I'm sure it has more to do with the genetics than your gardening abilities.

The curing is coming along slowly. I have labeled each jar with name of the plant and the date it entered the jars. The earliest buds went in on June 1, with the latest going in on June 13. So I've got a two-week potency window to see which type of high I like the most.

Right now, Tall girl smells and tastes the best. Shorty seems to pack the most punch, but the smell and taste aren't quite there yet. Wide girl looks and smells nice, but the smoke seems a bit harsh. Either way, the earliest plants still have 13 days of curing left, so the taste and smell should improve dramatically on all of them.

My next generation plants are coming along. 5 of 6 beans germinated (one Thai SS never cracked) leaving me with 2 blue cheese, 1 ppp and 2 thai's.

The four remaining topped plants have been slow to develop...partly from neglect, but also because they are still in those plastic cups. I thought it would be fun to try and keep them in it the entire life cycle, but it's not gonna happen as I have to water them every other day. Most of the topped cola's have been growing with alternating node spacing, causing them to look pretty goofy. I'm gonna transplant them to larger pots and probably throw them back into flower.

I got some pics, but no time to upload right now. I'll be back 

Oh, and I'm starting a new journal...sometime....I'll post the link


----------



## grow space (Jun 17, 2009)

really nice plants Jerry Garcia-looking healty and juicy.
keep up the good work bro....


----------



## Flower Pot Men (Jun 23, 2009)

Whats up Jerry..no more pics ..(
I cant wait to start harvest myself ...


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jun 23, 2009)

So the cure is coming along nicely. The earliest buds are 3 weeks in and smelling nice. I've been sampling from each over the past few weeks, and I am pretty satisfied with my results. 

Tall girl has the best odor, often described by people who've smelled it as "spicy," whatever that means. I've been smelling them for so long now it's hard for me to discern what they really smell like. Wide girl's smell is getting better by the day as the cure progresses. Shorty smells rather hay-like in the jar, but when broken up reveals her true scent (and taste).

They all look pretty similar, with shorty's buds being more stout and round than the other two. Tall girl has the most pistils, but none are lacking in that department. The exterior of the buds aren't really "frosted" with trichs, which is a bit of a bummer, but the interior of all buds has plenty to behold. I'm not sure if I am responsible for this or if it is just the fact that it's bagseed, but I don't care.

As far as the smoke is concerned...it's still too early to make a decisive statement. Shorty has a "rich" smoke that is quite flavorful and goes immediately to your brain. I accidentally left the jar of shorty I started curing on 6/5 open for four days while I was out of town (my sitter was unaware of this because the jar was somewhere it shouldn't have been...I was high...) and the weed is now quite dry. I took one hit this morning and was fucked. I just took some bong rips of wide girl though, and the taste is much improved since my last sample. I was slightly skeptical of the effect curing could really have on the smell and taste, but I can totally tell the difference already, and it's not done curing yet. Tall girl is good too. Tastes like it smells--nice.

Here are side buds from all three. Shorty on top, Tall in the middle, and wide on bottom. This wasn't the best bud from wide girl, as her side buds are quite small, but for the purpose of comparison it was appropriate.






Wide






Shorty.






Tall.






Shorty.






Tall






Wide.






This was the veg room a week ago (6/16)...






So cute when they're young...and living in a desert...the round ones are the Thai SS, the square pots on the left are blue cheese and the one on the right is PPP.






This was 5 days ago 6/18...






As was this...






This is today (6/23)...






PPP is front right square pot...






The topped ones are really getting big. Also, their nodes are all alternating, making for some funky looking plants. I'm gonna re-pot them soon. They are getting a little big for their pots...I can only image how tight the roots are getting. They need water every other day, and that gets old.






Here's an in-situ shot. I keep the lights 3-6" as best I can.







I haven't really been able to compare the early harvest high vs. the later harvest high, as the later harvest has only been curing for 10 days, and I'm not sure I've smoked any of that stuff...which means I've been smoking a lot of the early stuff...but I'll be sure to save enough from each to have a thorough and detailed smoke report for each jar.

Regarding *yield*...I don't know, and I never will (unfortunately). I've passed on about 3/4 of an ounce to friends, and who knows how much I've smoked already...and there is still a ton left! As you can see, I don't really care about yield. I think I'm close to 3 ounces


----------



## mared juwan (Jun 24, 2009)

Fackin' awesome dude. Your seedlings are more healthy than my most recent ones were. Actually they're probably more healthy than any seedlings I've ever had. I suck at veg. Only suggestion I would have is to spin the plants 180 degrees once in a while. Looks like that one closest to the camera and on the right in the last pic is starting to curve towards the light. I hate when that happens when they are young because unless you plan on some LST or scrog stuff then your plant won't stand up very straight because there's a big turn in the stalk at the bottom. I currently have a Cheese in flower like this and it is causing all kinds of problems. I had to tie it up and have it cinched tight in all four directions because it wants to topple over in any direction that is unsupported.

I see plenty of frost on the finished buds in your pics. I think it is just because they are so hairy it is harder to see. And yea the cure makes it a lot better. Uncured buds make me sneeze when I smoke them. You know how you get that peppery tickle in your nose? 

How long you gonna veg the bigger ones for? Those look like some monster booshes. Thanks for the pics bro, looks great.


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jun 24, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> Fackin' awesome dude. Your seedlings are more healthy than my most recent ones were. Actually they're probably more healthy than any seedlings I've ever had. I suck at veg. Only suggestion I would have is to spin the plants 180 degrees once in a while. Looks like that one closest to the camera and on the right in the last pic is starting to curve towards the light. I hate when that happens when they are young because unless you plan on some LST or scrog stuff then your plant won't stand up very straight because there's a big turn in the stalk at the bottom. I currently have a Cheese in flower like this and it is causing all kinds of problems. I had to tie it up and have it cinched tight in all four directions because it wants to topple over in any direction that is unsupported.
> 
> I see plenty of frost on the finished buds in your pics. I think it is just because they are so hairy it is harder to see. And yea the cure makes it a lot better. Uncured buds make me sneeze when I smoke them. You know how you get that peppery tickle in your nose?
> 
> How long you gonna veg the bigger ones for? Those look like some monster booshes. Thanks for the pics bro, looks great.


Thanks Mared. I gave a couple of the girls a turn a few days ago...I think I might have missed the PPP though. I'll probably move them around too, just to get more even lighting.

I don't know what I'm going to do with those bushes. I've only got one plant in flower at the moment, and I'm not running the hps, only the 2 t5's and a 65w cfl. The plant is the top from one of the others...it's about 8 inches tall and nothing spectacular. I might just toss it and shut down the flower room for a month and let the others veg away. I can't seem to bring myself to just kill a healthy plant though...maybe I'll try to stick it outside somewhere...

I'm going to veg the blue cheeses and ppp for at least another month, probably two because I'm gonna top them. And that way I can be flowering at the end of summer/early fall when the temps aren't in the mid-90's every day.


----------



## Flower Pot Men (Jun 26, 2009)

looking beautifull :O)))

Yield is not imporatnt I aggre 100% 
Its the fun seeing it grow and smoking for free that does it for me 

Mine are almost ready ..I been told maybe to wait another week but iam not sure myself 
If u have a sec Jerry ..please chime in with you opinion as its clear you are doing it right he 

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/179581-growing-diary-11.html
Cheers and have a fat one


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jun 28, 2009)

Hey guys and gals. I've started a new journal to chronicle the life and times of my Blue Cheese, PPP, and Thai Super Skunk, as well as the four topped bagseed plants that are about one moth old. The link to the new journal is Blue Cheese, PPP, Thai SS...Jerry's Second Grow.

I would like to extend a heartfelt THANKS to everyone who helped or followed along with my first grow. Who knows what my end result would be without you all. Bong hits for all !

So please follow the link and subscribe to my new journal!


----------



## Babs34 (Jun 29, 2009)

Throw away clones of PPP??? I'm dying here. You do know I would love to have them, yes?
Quick question---that Hot Shot "stuff" for gnats (forget the name)---I noticed in one of your pictures way back that you used it. I know the stuff is supposed to last for 4 months. It also says not to use it an occupied place. I'm assuming you occupy the space in which it sits.....so, big question is---I take it it's not "that" dangerous? No hair falling out or throwing up? In other words, nothing to worry about using it?


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jun 29, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> Throw away clones of PPP??? I'm dying here. You do know I would love to have them, yes?


Who said anything about throwing away clones? Did I...?

And yes, I do know you would love to have some...I remember you saying how awesome it was I got one as a freebie...



Babs34 said:


> Quick question---that Hot Shot "stuff" for gnats (forget the name)---I noticed in one of your pictures way back that you used it. I know the stuff is supposed to last for 4 months. It also says not to use it an occupied place. I'm assuming you occupy the space in which it sits.....so, big question is---I take it it's not "that" dangerous? No hair falling out or throwing up? In other words, nothing to worry about using it?


Nope, I seem to be alive and kicking still...though I wouldn't say I really "occupy" the space. It's in the closet in my bathroom, and usually the door to the bathroom is left open for air flow, so I'm probably sitting 15' from it now.

To be honest, I'm not sure they are even doing anything. I've seen gnats flying around with one of those things 4" from the plants. But really my gnat problem has all but disappeared...I am diligent about keeping a layer of sand on top of all the plants and it really works. I still see one buzzing around from time to time, but if they can't get in the soil to lay their eggs they don't last long.


----------



## Babs34 (Jun 29, 2009)

*Post # 522---*...it's about 8 inches tall and nothing spectacular. I might just toss it and shut down the flower room for a month and let the others veg away. I can't seem to bring myself to just kill a healthy plant though...maybe I'll try to stick it outside somewhere...
*LOL, why do you think I even have those friggen gnats to begin with? I have a passion to clone every living thing (plant wise)---because I am constantly cloning so many plants, I am obviously bringing in those "things." They are demons from hell as far as I am concerned.*
*I swore off the Hot Shot because it stated very clearly not to use in an occupied space. My grow space is always occupied. I'm still weary......no lil room behind my shower.*
*I really HATE using the sand, although I do. *
*I'm just so, SO SICK of this never ending cycle of killing the lil bastards off. Every two to three days, I take at LEAST an hour or more to scrutinize under my magnifying glass the leaves........and somehow, those freaks of nature have somehow managed to lay yet even MORE eggs. I'm getting kind of demented when killing these things, ya know?*
*As for the clone, I clone off less than a quarter of an inch. I even cloned off a damn leaf once, LOL. I LOVE TO CLONE.*


----------



## mared juwan (Jun 30, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> * I even cloned off a damn leaf once*


HUH?!?!?!?!? Please explain more. I've been following another thread for a couple months now where there has been HEATED debate over this. One guy started the thread claiming he could clone an entire new plant from ONLY a fan leaf. After three pages of people saying he was full of sh*t people started to try it for themselves. I even tried it just for kicks. The leaf will root, no doubt about it, but I don't see where the new growth will come from. The leaf has roots and stays green but never grows. So please explain more. You must have at least one growth site on there, right?


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jun 30, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *Post # 522---*...it's about 8 inches tall and nothing spectacular. I might just toss it and shut down the flower room for a month and let the others veg away. I can't seem to bring myself to just kill a healthy plant though...maybe I'll try to stick it outside somewhere...
> *LOL, why do you think I even have those friggen gnats to begin with? I have a passion to clone every living thing (plant wise)---because I am constantly cloning so many plants, I am obviously bringing in those "things." They are demons from hell as far as I am concerned.*
> *I swore off the Hot Shot because it stated very clearly not to use in an occupied space. My grow space is always occupied. I'm still weary......no lil room behind my shower.*
> *I really HATE using the sand, although I do. *
> ...


I realize where the confusion came from now. That cloned plant I was considering tossing is the top from one of the 4 bagseed plants I have growing, not the PPP.



mared juwan said:


> HUH?!?!?!?!? Please explain more. I've been following another thread for a couple months now where there has been HEATED debate over this. One guy started the thread claiming he could clone an entire new plant from ONLY a fan leaf. After three pages of people saying he was full of sh*t people started to try it for themselves. I even tried it just for kicks. The leaf will root, no doubt about it, but I don't see where the new growth will come from. The leaf has roots and stays green but never grows. So please explain more. You must have at least one growth site on there, right?


I've heard and seen some fan leaves actually start budding from the part of the leaf that holds the blades together. Not sure if this has anything to do with the ability to clone a leaf, but I too am interested to hear more about this Babs...


----------



## Babs34 (Jul 1, 2009)

Jerry Garcia said:


> I realize where the confusion came from now. That cloned plant I was considering tossing is the top from one of the 4 bagseed plants I have growing, not the PPP.
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard and seen some fan leaves actually start budding from the part of the leaf that holds the blades together. Not sure if this has anything to do with the ability to clone a leaf, but I too am interested to hear more about this Babs...


 *"huge sigh of relief"......I just couldn't imagine even a leaf being dumped to the garbage can.........yes, they can be cloned....a mere leaf.*
*"Alas"......it aint simple.*
*Quite simply, it takes the ultimate "touch."*
*It must be babied to the hilt.*

*I will try to upload a picture of my cloned leaf. The picture is from several weeks ago......it is now 26" tall. I just put it into flower 3 days ago. *
*I have a "theory" that the longer it goes into veg, the more potent it is......I'll get back to you on that.*


----------



## Babs34 (Jul 1, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *"huge sigh of relief"......I just couldn't imagine even a leaf being dumped to the garbage can.........yes, they can be cloned....a mere leaf.*
> *"Alas"......it aint simple.*
> *Quite simply, it takes the ultimate "touch."*
> *It must be babied to the hilt.*
> ...


 ........ok, hope this works. This is a few weeks after cloning the leaf. I was going to make it a bonzai, but instead decided to make it a coco grow. As I already stated, it's at 26" 3 days into flower now.


----------



## Babs34 (Jul 1, 2009)

mared juwan said:


> HUH?!?!?!?!? Please explain more. I've been following another thread for a couple months now where there has been HEATED debate over this. One guy started the thread claiming he could clone an entire new plant from ONLY a fan leaf. After three pages of people saying he was full of sh*t people started to try it for themselves. I even tried it just for kicks. The leaf will root, no doubt about it, but I don't see where the new growth will come from. The leaf has roots and stays green but never grows. So please explain more. You must have at least one growth site on there, right?


*LOL, I sure am glad I am not in that heated debate. It just is what it is....my experiment. I figured, why shouldn't it clone from the genetics of a leaf? Granted, it took awhile to "take off"....but it did. Take into consideration that I work from home and have the green thumb from hell. When I baby my plants, I don't joke around....they get my full attention.* *In short, it was a leaf, nothing more.....no other growth. Sorry, I didn't take pictures from beginning to end....I only have short term access to a camera.*


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jul 1, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *LOL, I sure am glad I am not in that heated debate. It just is what it is....my experiment. I figured, why shouldn't it clone from the genetics of a leaf? Granted, it took awhile to "take off"....but it did. Take into consideration that I work from home and have the green thumb from hell. When I baby my plants, I don't joke around....they get my full attention.* *In short, it was a leaf, nothing more.....no other growth. Sorry, I didn't take pictures from beginning to end....I only have short term access to a camera.*


So did the leaf actually grow into a full plant? Or did it just stay alive as a leaf with roots?

I'm confused...


----------



## mared juwan (Jul 1, 2009)

Looks like a full plant in the picture. So where does it start growing from? The place where all the leaves connect like Jerry said? I know that every single cell of the plant contains all the gene information needed to create a whole new plant, but I'm not sure how the leaf could "know" that there is no growth tip and it needs to create its own. Does it take a really long time? I gave up on my leaf after about three weeks. It was still green though.


----------



## mared juwan (Jul 1, 2009)

Holy crap, I shoulda checked that other thread before I came here to talk about it LOL. It seems there has been a development. Someone posted the pic I have attached. It shows a budsite in the middle of a fanleaf. This is exactly what I was wondering about. If someone had rooted this particular leaf while it was in veg then I can totally see it working. Now I would like to know if this is possible only with certain strains that are genetically prone to doing this (is it a mutation?) or can all strains do this? Here is the thread if you want to see for yourself. https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/60994-cloning-fan-leaves-12.html


----------



## Babs34 (Jul 1, 2009)

*OK, now that I have officially confused you both....allow me to clarify. Mared, I peeked into that link "cloning from a fan leaf"......




*
*This is NOT what I cloned. My leaf was much, MUCH smaller. It was connected to a stem, yet the stem was less than a quarter of an inch. For all practical purposes, it really was just a fan leaf. But yes, there was a stem, a very small stem, connected to that very small fan leaf. *
*It's times like these when I am dying for a camera. I'm getting ready to do it again. I just clipped something almost identical to what I cloned before.*
*Imagine a stem (less than 1/4") with a VERY new fan leaf attached at the base of that stem. *
*I don't recommend cloning this way. It does take forever for it to take off and grow into what even looks like a "normal clone." I just did it to see what would happen.*
*Oh...and the fan leaf with the bud, I've seen that one other time.......wild, I don't get it. It has definitely never happened to me before.*


----------



## Jerry Garcia (Jul 2, 2009)

Babs34 said:


> *I don't recommend cloning this way. It does take forever for it to take off and grow into what even looks like a "normal clone." *


So it WILL eventually become a full plant huh? Interesting...


----------



## Babs34 (Jul 3, 2009)

*Oh yes..it definitely will. My tiny clone is a beautiful bush now. *


----------

