# Quantum Physics Proposes Life After Death



## Beansly (Aug 8, 2011)

I read this on another forum. Had to post it here.Please read it all, now or later.*


SCIENCE CONFIRMS SURVIVAL*

A group of British scientists, including two astrophysicists, a thermodynamicist, and other professional researchers, are conducting experiments and solving complex equations that they believe furnish conclusive and irrefutable proof of human survival of bodily death.

Michael Roll, a rationalist and freethinker who heads The Campaign for Philosophical Freedom, is unofficial spokesman for the group. He has recently revealed information that could drastically alter humankind's entire belief system regarding continuation of consciousness beyond the grave. Roll, of Bristol, England, a former businessman, is a long-time explorer of paranormal phenomena. He and his colleagues' series of discoveries, involving mathematical equations and physical experiments, when taken together, furnish empirical evidence that makes an extremely strong case for continuing after-death survival of the human psyche.

The group has come to regard that continuation as the functioning of a natural, universal law, the study of which is strictly a branch of chemistry, physics, and mathematics, rather than an article of religious faith.

This scientific approach to a subject which heretofore has been discussed mainly as a function of theology is stirring lively debate, not only in Britain, but worldwide. The assertion that immortality is conferred on humankind through natural law alone, rather than by an all-powerful, monotheistic God, is awakening interest and triggering penetrating questions from the general public, including churchgoers, as they become more fully informed about prospects for continuing existence beyond the transition known as "death."

The researchers' premise is that certain recent mathematical discoveries, combined with results of in-depth exploration of physics and quantum mechanics, now furnish verification for many previous well-documented scientific experiments dealing with what has been previously known as "psychic phenomena." These experiments were, and are being, conducted by various researchers from the late nineteenth century down to the present day, and all have a common thread. Each features repeated appearances by, and communication with, entities from the next level of existence who have experienced the event known as death, and yet maintain consciousness, remain articulate, and sometimes become visible on this physical level. At times these visitors from etheric realms can be touched, felt, and even held tightly by incarnate humans. Fully authenticated and documented visits to living family members, friends, and researchers have long proven the reality of these manifestations, but their cause and origin has remained inexplicable in the context of heretofore known laws of physics. However, many of the questions relating to these phenomena have been answered by the British researchers, and ongoing exploration continues.

Discarnate entities sometimes appear through materialization mediums - those specially endowed individuals who are able to furnish a psychic link between the two planes. At other times, usually when influenced by extremely strong emotions on either, or both, the etheric or physical level, materializations occur spontaneously. Other mediums, while not always able to effect materializations, are still able to relay communications between the two levels of existence.

Much of the evidence provided by certain mediums has been subjected to close, even hostile, scientific scrutiny, and found to be true and valid. Recently, there have been many reports of discarnate communication occurring by electronic means - telephone calls, tape recordings, fax messages, and even long discourses on computer screens. Etheric entities identify themselves, answer questions put to them by experimenters, and furnish information on conditions in the dimensions where they now exist. Extensive research into electronic communication with afterworld beings is being conducted on both sides of the Atlantic. In the USA, the American Association of Electronic Voice Phenomena and the Continuing Life Research organizations are in the forefront of these investigations.

Simply put, the British investigative group's contention is that these appearances of and contacts with "deceased" persons are manifestations of natural physical laws, the validity of which has been proven by recent and startling discoveries in mathematics and quantum physics. These are fields of study directly related to the structure and behavior of electrons, protons, neutrons, and other sub-atomic particles. Roll asserts that these new discoveries now fully vindicate the findings of early investigators of psychic phenomena such as Sir William Crookes, Sir Oliver Lodge, John Logie Baird, Arthur Findlay, Dr. Glen Hamilton, and many other prestigious scientific truth-seekers. After years of research, each of these experimenters declared unequivocally that life continues, endures, and advances on the next levels of existence.

Baird, a television pioneer, and inventor of the infrared camera, contacted the "deceased" Thomas A. Edison through a medium, and a discussion of the infrared camera followed. Later, Baird made the following statement: "I have witnessed some very startling phenomena under circumstances which make trickery out of the question...I am convinced that discoveries of far-reaching importance remain waiting along these shadowy and discredited paths."

Fittingly, efforts in Britain are now underway to embark on a project to employ an infrared camera that will scientifically measure and record phenomena produced during experiments, including the videotaping of recently deceased persons. Many early investigators were given a very rough time by fellow scientists and the media. This holds especially true for Crookes. In 1874, he published the results of his four years of experiments dealing with a wide variety of unexplained phenomena. The report described many well-documented appearances, in the presence of Florence Cook, a materialization medium, of a spirit entity by the name of Katie King. Immediately upon publication of these findings, he became the target of infuriated detractors. After Crookes' death in 1919, his enemies even went so far as to accuse him of being sexually obsessed with Cook, and collaborating with her in faking evidence of psychic phenomena. These cowardly attacks were directed at one of the most distinguished scientists of the nineteenth century, a Fellow of the Royal Society, later it's President, and the discoverer of the chemical element Thallium.

Although Crookes had become convinced of the reality of etheric communications long before beginning work with the medium (he began his research by investigating the numerous psychic phenomena associated with D. D. Hume), these unfounded and unproven allegations, many of them outright lies, have persisted into our own time. They have muddied the waters of paranormal investigation, and discouraged other scientists from following in Crookes' footsteps.

This is in spite of the reams of documentation of the many paranormal occurrences, including numerous appearances of the aforementioned discarnate entity, which occurred throughout Crookes' investigation. Conclusive photographs are part of the record, and the authenticity of the phenomena has been verified by a number of independent witnesses. Some of these witnesses were themselves brilliant and esteemed scientists of the era, one of note being Cromwell F. Varley, an early researcher into ionization phenomena, and supervisor of the initial laying of the Atlantic Cable.

Another investigator, Dr. Glen Hamilton, MD, of Winnipeg, Canada, a member of the Canadian Parliament and long-time psychic researcher, carried out later experiments which closely paralleled Crookes', and achieved comparable results. His research sessions were also marked by manifestations of, and communication with discarnate entities. All of these occurred under closely-controlled, replicable, conditions, including a battery of fifteen flash cameras which photographed the apparitions from all angles simultaneously. Scientific observers who were present at these experiments included four other doctors, two lawyers, and two engineers. All of these witnesses stated unequivocally that "time after time, we saw dead persons materialize." In well over a century, there has never been an explanation put forth for these hundreds of scientifically validated manifestations and communications being anything other than what the experimenters claimed them to be, that is, paranormal, or "psychic" phenomena.

Roll balks at the term "psychic," however, preferring instead to talk of "sub-atomic" phenomena. This he perceives as beginning with the separation of the human mind from its bodily shell, a natural and universal function that takes place at the end of physical life.

The mind, retaining all of the memories, emotions, and intellect that it possessed on the material plane, then moves on to its next level of existence. This event occurs without regard for an individual's religious belief and/or good behavior, or lack of the same, during his or her physical existence.

The term "sub-atomic" refers to the many particles that compose the atom. There are over two hundred of these so far discovered, in addition to the generally well known electrons, protons, and neutrons. An electron is part of a family known as leptons. Its companion protons and neutrons are constructed of a similar sub-atomic group known as quarks. It has been postulated by a number of physicists that another sub-atomic particle, the neutrino, may account for ninety percent of the previously "missing" matter in the universe.

All of these particles possess properties and exhibit behavior which remains inexplicable in the context of conventional physics, and there are strong indications that they may furnish an explanation for the numerous phenomena which are characteristic of the so-called "etheric body." According to the group's premise, both the human body and its etheric personality, the essence of human consciousness that endures after the physical ceases to operate, are composed of various sub-atomic particles. When the etheric portion detaches from the physical, in the event known as "death," it remains energized by these same particles, which, in their new state, are now able to impart to it powers and abilities unknown, and even unimaginable, in our material world. Under certain conditions, discarnate entities manifesting on the material plane can appear and disappear at will, speak, respond, and even be grasped and held by those present at controlled experiments.

In Roll's view, there is nothing "supernatural" or "paranormal" about these appearances, which he sees as merely proving the ongoing existence of human consciousness and personality beyond the end of physical life. He blames certain religious denominations and national political leaders, pandering to their own interests by keeping the masses in ignorance, for this information on sub-atomic phenomena as it impacts upon survival not being more widely circulated and available to the general public. To aid Roll's efforts in disseminating this evidence, an impressive array of scientists, physicists, and university professors have lent him support and made public their own research findings, all of which bear out the validity of his assertions.

The late Professor Abdus Salam was a Nobel Laureate and Director of the International Centre for Theoretical Physics, who was awarded an honorary knighthood. After reviewing the results of investigations by the savants, he gave Roll numerous monetary contributions from his own pocket, as well as a sizable grant from the Foundation, to help him spread the word of these exciting discoveries that verify the truth of ongoing life beyond the physical level.

R. D. Pearson, BSc, another of Roll's scientific collabarators, is a former university lecturer and engineer whose specialty is thermodynamics and fluid mechanics. He has written a book, "Intelligence Behind The Universe," along with a companion booklet, "Colossus," and an accompanying appendix of mathematical proof. These purport to explain the cosmic force that drives the phenomenom of continuing life, and mathematically back up the experiments of Crookes and Hamilton. Put quite simply, Pearson sees post-mortem survival of the human psyche as one of many functions of a multi-dimensional, multi-universal, sub-atomic grid matrix, on which all forms of life exist, and which sustains the etheric, as well as the physical consciousness of all living organisms. In this model, physical materializations of so-called "dead" persons, and even deceased animals, are but the temporary merging of two different frequencies, or wave-lengths, from two discrete levels of the grid, somewhat similar to when more than one radio broadcast is picked up on the same dial setting.

Pearson furnishes full mathematical proof for his postulations, which may one day be looked upon as the key that finally unlocked the door to universal awareness of the reality of discarnate existence. One of the roadblocks to scientific acceptance of this "grid theory" (which is considerably more complex than the above simplified outline) has been the existence of Einstein's Theory of Relativity, parts of which seemed to negate Pearson's hypothesis. However, Doctor Louis Essen, a Fellow of the Royal Society, and inventor of the atomic clock, informed Pearson that he has found significant errors in Einstein's calculations.

This recent discovery by Doctor Essen is in accord with a statement made by Einstein himself on his seventieth birthday: "There is not a single concept of which I am convinced that it will stand firm, and I am not sure if I was on the right track after all." Over the past several years, other physicists and cosmologists worldwide have also come to the general agreement that "Einstein's laws contain some flaws." As a result of this consensus, they are examining certain discrepancies that have been found in Einstein's work, and are formulating other premises to account for specific occurrences in quantum physics that cannot be explained by his theories.

Pearson is confident that his "grid theory" corrects some of the discrepant data in Einstein's works, and that it will withstand close examination and criticism by fellow physicists and cosmologists. In his book, he calls for seven experimental checks to be made which he is certain will return positive results and affirm his conclusions. Pearson has made several trips to Russia to present his theories. After extensive investigation and review, they were fully accepted by the physicists and scientists of that country, and Russian physics textbooks are in the process of being revised to reflect his new and exciting discoveries in sub-atomic physics. One of the strongest points in their favor is the fact that they have been shown not to conflict with the proven realities of quantum mechanics, as do many of Einstein's theories.

Sam Nicholls, MSc, an astrophysics graduate of Leeds University, and a fellow researcher into sub-atomic phenomena, concurs with Pearson's findings. He has further postulated that so-called "deceased" entities, although composed of slightly different atomic components, exist in, and share the same space with, incarnate persons. He states:

"Like the physical universe, their world would likewise be composed of sub-atomic particles, but these may be in much closer vibrational harmony with the all-pervading "grid" than their physical counterparts."

In one context of observation, this grid itself could be seen as the Creator-Sustainer of All Things for a number of parallel but separate universes. This premise does not, however, negate the possibility of an even higher, ultimate, Intelligence behind the grid.

Another British astrophysicist and sub-atomic researcher, Michael Scott, BSc, a graduate of Edinburgh University, cites Niels Bohr's "Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics" as seeming to actually require the existence of consciousness as a non-material extension to space-time. Scott makes the point that sub-atomic physics, as explored by him and other researchers worldwide, no longer views the building blocks of the universe as discrete particles of solid substance, but rather as vague, wavelike structures whose existence borders on the ethereal. Scott further states that:

"The advancement of quantum physics has produced a description of reality which allows the existence of parallel universes. Composed of real substance, they would not interact directly with matter from our universe."

Professor Fred Alan Wolfe, although not a member of the British group, seems to concur with their findings in his book "Mind and the New Physics". In it he states that "as fantastic as it may sound, the 'new physics' called quantum mechanics posits that there exists, side by side with this world, another world, a parallel universe, a duplicate copy that is somehow slightly different and yet the same. And not just two parallel worlds, but three, four, and even more...! In each of these universes, you, I, and all the others who live, have lived, will live, and will have ever lived, are alive."

These radical concepts of quantum physics and the ephemeral state of perceived reality as it impacts human existence beyond physical life have spurred attacks on the researchers from many quarters. These include certain members of the clergy, spiritualists, other scientists, and professional "skeptics." Roll, as spokesman for the group, has drawn the wrath of religionists and spiritualists by his denial that belief in a supreme being is a necessary condition for next-world survival. His assertion that religious faith, or lack of it, is irrelevant in the context of continuing afterlife has placed him in direct conflict with the established churches, especially certain Christian denominations, and some of his fiercest foes are to be found in this camp.

It seems particularly ironic that Christian sects are in the forefront of opposition to the sharing of these findings. The reported teachings of Jesus, whose doctrines are the foundation of their beliefs, are all based on the existence of another life beyond the present. Many thinking persons feel that these new discoveries in sub-atomic physics give credence to all those who, since the advent of human consciousness, have taught survival of death, and in addition, eliminate the necessity of belief through faith alone. This point is made by Pearson when he states,

"People need to be made aware that their religious faiths have a base strongly supportable by modern physics. There is no longer any reason to think of science and religion as basically incompatible."

Roll expected strong opposition from the churches, but sees it as paradoxical that certain British spiritualist organizations have also joined in denouncing his views. The very core of spiritualism has always been a belief in the reality of contact with departed entities, and many survivalists of the past, especially the great historian and researcher Arthur Findlay, have made important and lasting contributions to research dealing with these contacts. Roll's charges, which are backed by correspondence of record with several Spiritualist groups, are that their present day members have abandoned the rationalist philosophy of Findlay and other pioneers. They have instead tended to side with organized religion in asserting that belief in a monotheistic "God" is a vital part of the spiritualist creed. To refute the concept that faith in a supreme being is necessary for afterlife salvation from eternal punishment, Roll states unequivocally that life continues on in the next dimension without divine intervention or retribution, regardless of one's religious beliefs or lack thereof. In addition to the findings of his colleagues, he bases this statement on personal communications with discarnate entities with whom he has spoken, and even held and embraced, including a "deceased" member of his immediate family.

From information received through these contacts, he describes the afterworld as having many of the same conditions that are found on this physical plane. One significant difference seems to be that the environment experienced by each person is wholly dependent upon that individual's behavior while incarnate. Punishment for wrongdoing, if any, is meted out to oneself by oneself, after undergoing a review of the past physical life. There are infinite and varying levels of existence, and advancement to higher planes is within the reach of every inhabitant of those realms. Roll outlines his philosophy in a quote from his booklet "The Physicists' and Rationalists' Case for Survival After the Death of Our Physical Bodies:"

"Dying is as natural as being born; we all pass into the next world whether we like it or not. There is no special place reserved for Christians or members of any other sect. There are no social strata or racial barriers. We all graduate to the level we have earned by the development of our characters."

Conspicuously missing from this scenario is that favorite authority figure of religious fundamentalists, the "Big Daddy God," a stern judge who summarily sentences some souls to eternal fire as punishment for alleged "sins", while raising others to eternal glory as a reward for belief in "Him." Mention of this deity is found nowhere in the numerous accounts by discarnate entities of life in their world. The Creator of the Universe, whoever or whatever he/she or it may be, seems to be a much more loving and compassionate being than literal interpreters of the Bible can conceive of. Opposition from certain establishment scientists to this view of after-death survival as a natural function of sub-atomic processes has also been strong. In spite of Lord Kelvin's statement that "Science is bound by the everlasting law of honour to face fearlessly every problem which can fairly be presented to it," some scientists have refused to even look at Pearson's data, or review the hypotheses of the other researchers.

Adrian Berry, Science Correspondent of the "Daily Telegraph," has framed this attitude perfectly by stating in print that

"few subjects more infuriate scientists than claims of paranormal phenomena, because, if confirmed, the whole fabric of science would be threatened."

Although obviously not Berry's intention, these words make a crucial point for the embattled researchers.

Roll's response to Berry is that "nothing can threaten true science, which in essence is the unceasing search for knowledge, and that observed and verifiable facts call for an explanation of their cause, no matter how uncomfortable the eventual solution may be for it's discoverers." He equates such reluctance to explore new vistas with past suppression of uncomfortable ideas and discoveries, as when the brilliant researcher Giordano Bruno was murdered by the Catholic Church for daring to assert that "There are many suns, with many planets circling them. The priests and so-called "scientists" of Galileo's day refused to look through his telescope, because of fear that what they might observe would overturn their cherished and antiquated beliefs.

Even the ubiquitous James "The Amazing" Randi, erstwhile magician and member of the "Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal," (although he has been forced to resign from this organization due to legal problems stemming from character defamation suits brought against him) has taken it upon himself to attack the premise of scientific verification of continuing post-mortem existence. His nose was figuratively bloodied during an encounter with Sam Nicholls, however, when the astrophysicist, as a member of the audience of a television show, stood up and publicly challenged Randi's assertions. The magician quickly ordered the cameras of Granada Television Studio switched off before they could record Nicholls' words.

Since there is no separation of church and state in Britain, religious opposition there has, until very recently, made it difficult for Roll to air his findings and those of his colleagues. As an example of this church-state integration, the law demands that an "act of Christian worship" be performed daily in every school throughout the land!

Also, British laws have not always favored Roll's attempts to disseminate his views in the media. One example of this mental harassment is an incident which would be unimaginable in the USA. Because of a clause in the Broadcasting Act, the host of a radio show on which Roll appeared and championed the existence of subatomic phenomena as a natural law, while denying it's divine origin, was threatened with being reported to the IBA, (the British counterpart of the Federal Communications Commission) if Roll ever again appeared on his show. The courageous broadcaster was not intimidated, and his publicizing of the threat resulted in increased demand by listeners for more information on the subject, which led to Roll ultimately being invited back on the air without fear of sanctions. These and other restrictions have worked as deterrents to the free dissemination of information on sub-atomic phenomena, but the situation is rapidly changing.

Lately, likely due to public pressure, Roll has been allowed to air his views more freely, and has been appearing on a series of radio broadcasts, where he was able to reveal the far-reaching discoveries of his colleagues with a minimum of restrictions. He also gives numerous lectures throughout the UK and in Europe, and recently formed the Campaign for Philosophical Freedom to further disseminate the truth about ongoing life in etheric realms. As word of these exciting and factual affirmations of heretofore only hoped-for afterlife existence spreads, the public is showing its strong interest in life after death by ever-increasing attendance at lectures and programs given by Roll and his associates. They are demanding more information, as well as the lowering of all remaining barriers to free and open discussion of the matter. In future years, it is likely that the present times will be looked back upon as the dawning of a new Renaissance in humankind's perception of both the physical and non-physical worlds alike.

A quote from Arthur Schopenhauer describes the current situation in the study of sub-atomic physics as it relates to ongoing life now being at the second stage, and nearing the third:

"Any unexplained phenomenon passes through three stages before the reality of it is accepted:
During the first stage it is considered laughable.
During the second stage, it is adamantly opposed.
Finally, during the third stage, it is accepted as self-evident."
- After Arthur Schopenhauer (1788 - 1860)

The Campaign for Philosophical Freedom


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## kevin murphy (Aug 8, 2011)

what do u believe and interesting read..im not sure what i believe i think once were gone were gone but this is a interesting topic and would love to diiscuss it more...


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## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

quantum leap man made it, why cant we...


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## mindphuk (Aug 8, 2011)

Cliff notes version please


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## rzza (Aug 8, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> Cliff notes version please


nothing new in my opinion. i only read half. its all paranormal shenanigans.


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## Encomium (Aug 8, 2011)

That article might have been decent had they included a bibliography and it wasn't posted on the internet. Since it was posted on the internet, references could have been and should have been profuse yet it lacks any reference to supporting experiments and only alludes to them in general terms. 

C+


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## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

you know damn well im not reading that but im in.. point out whoever is ranting about their religion and get out of my way... Also I believe in something after death, dunno if its up to our current standard of "life"


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## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

Whats after death? Why would it not be up to the standars of life?


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## RawBudzski (Aug 8, 2011)

cause if their was something after death, if the light doesnt go out. than thats obviously something after death but isnt our "standard of living" such as we are not in this body, breathing air, eating.. you know.. what we consider to be alive? Oly, your my favorite.


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## olylifter420 (Aug 8, 2011)

Cool, yea, totally!

And I aint gay, sorry!





RawBudzski said:


> cause if their was something after death, if the light doesnt go out. than thats obviously something after death but isnt our "standard of living" such as we are not in this body, breathing air, eating.. you know.. what we consider to be alive? Oly, your my favorite.


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## Beansly (Aug 9, 2011)

God.....
That's the problem with this stupid forum sometimes. You can't have a serious conversation about anything. I doubt anyone who's claiming this is bullshit has read the whole thing. And the idea that it being on the internet takes away from it validity is just stupid and misguided. The are a lot of credible, peer-reviewed medical and scientific journals online. Tons. Every college has one for instance. Even my community college has published peer reviewed essays and experiments.
I'd try to explain it even further but it's already been simplified enough so that fools like me can understand it. I don't think I can make it any simpler. Either you care enough to read the whole thing, or you don't. I'm not gonna get into a 'biggest retard' contest with someone who can't even read.


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## guy incognito (Aug 9, 2011)

Beansly said:


> The researchers' premise is that certain recent mathematical discoveries, combined with results of in-depth exploration of physics and quantum mechanics, now furnish verification for many previous well-documented scientific experiments dealing with what has been previously known as "psychic phenomena." These experiments were, and are being, conducted by various researchers from the late nineteenth century down to the present day, and all have a common thread. Each features repeated appearances by, and communication with, entities from the next level of existence who have experienced the event known as death, and yet maintain consciousness, remain articulate, and sometimes become visible on this physical level. At times these visitors from etheric realms can be touched, felt, and even held tightly by incarnate humans. Fully authenticated and documented visits to living family members, friends, and researchers have long proven the reality of these manifestations, but their cause and origin has remained inexplicable in the context of heretofore known laws of physics. However, many of the questions relating to these phenomena have been answered by the British researchers, and ongoing exploration continues.


Where are these fully authenticated and documented visits of ghosts?

Also what specifically are the discoveries they have made? They are extremely vague about the recent "mathematical discoveries" . For something that *gives "conclusive and irrefutable proof of human survival of bodily death*" they sure don't back it up in this article.


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## Beansly (Aug 9, 2011)

guy incognito said:


> Where are these fully authenticated and documented visits of ghosts?
> 
> Also what specifically are the discoveries they have made? They are extremely vague about the recent "mathematical discoveries" . For something that *gives "conclusive and irrefutable proof of human survival of bodily death*" they sure don't back it up in this article.


 Everything they've proposed has a lot of mathematics to back it up. 
Honestly, if you saw the formulas do you think you'd be able to understand it? No offense, but I doubt it. The math used in quantum physics is so far beyond even calculus it ridiculous. Finite math and theoretical math and beyond. I'm sure I could find them but it'd be pointless cause no one here (including me) would understand it. 
They say in the article that it's over-simplified for mass consumption. That the whole thing is a lot more complicated. That's why they don't provide all the "proof" you ask. The 'proof' is a long series mathematical formulas.


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## Beansly (Aug 9, 2011)

Beansly said:


> God.....
> That's the problem with this stupid forum sometimes. You can't have a serious conversation about anything. I doubt anyone who's claiming this is bullshit has read the whole thing. And the idea that it being on the internet takes away from it validity is just stupid and misguided. The are a lot of credible, peer-reviewed medical and scientific journals online. Tons. Every college has one for instance. Even my community college has published peer reviewed essays and experiments.
> I'd try to explain it even further but it's already been simplified enough so that fools like me can understand it. I don't think I can make it any simpler. Either you care enough to read the whole thing, or you don't. I'm not gonna get into a 'biggest retard' contest with someone who can't even read.


Sorry for raging btw... This article seriously blew my mind, but then again I loved the movie "What the Bleep Do We Know?". For those who haven't seen it, it's an easy to digest movie about quantum physics starring that deaf chick Molly Matlin.
Here's the trailer. Watch the whole movie when you get the chance. It'll change your life
[video=youtube;3QlZ5O8_bGk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QlZ5O8_bGk[/video]


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## Encomium (Aug 9, 2011)

Beansly said:


> God.....
> That's the problem with this stupid forum sometimes. You can't have a serious conversation about anything. I doubt anyone who's claiming this is bullshit has read the whole thing. And the idea that it being on the internet takes away from it validity is just stupid and misguided. The are a lot of credible, peer-reviewed medical and scientific journals online. Tons. Every college has one for instance. Even my community college has published peer reviewed essays and experiments.
> I'd try to explain it even further but it's already been simplified enough so that fools like me can understand it. I don't think I can make it any simpler. Either you care enough to read the whole thing, or you don't. I'm not gonna get into a 'biggest retard' contest with someone who can't even read.


So if that article had actually cited a few experiments with links this would in no way add credibility to the article's message? I would imagine since, "[There] are a lot of credible, peer-reviewed medical and scientific journals online.", then providing source links to any number of these could have been done. 

I did read the whole thing and that was exactly my impression. That I didn't take every single word that the article wrote as fact makes me stupid?


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## karri0n (Aug 9, 2011)

Encomium said:


> So if that article had actually cited a few experiments with links this would in no way add credibility to the article's message? I would imagine since, "[There] are a lot of credible, peer-reviewed medical and scientific journals online.", then providing source links to any number of these could have been done.
> 
> I did read the whole thing and that was exactly my impression. That I didn't take every single word that the article wrote as fact makes me stupid?


While I'm well aware that QM supports a concept of the afterlife as well as lot of other things considered "paranormal", I would have also liked to see some sources.


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## guy incognito (Aug 9, 2011)

Beansly said:


> Everything they've proposed has a lot of mathematics to back it up.
> Honestly, if you saw the formulas do you think you'd be able to understand it? No offense, but I doubt it. The math used in quantum physics is so far beyond even calculus it ridiculous. Finite math and theoretical math and beyond. I'm sure I could find them but it'd be pointless cause no one here (including me) would understand it.
> They say in the article that it's over-simplified for mass consumption. That the whole thing is a lot more complicated. That's why they don't provide all the "proof" you ask. The 'proof' is a long series mathematical formulas.


So essentially your response is "it's far too complex for you to understand, so just take their conclusions at face value". 

No doubt the math they are dealing with is out of my league. I have taken many calculus, physics, and quantum mechanics courses, but I am not a physicist or a theoretical mathematician. But they have so over simplified the explanation that they don't even offer an explanation. If its so "conclusive and irrefutable" they should be able to provide an actual explanation instead of just alluding to complex mathematics.

EDIT:

I also have an issue with the claim "*Fully authenticated and documented visits to living family members, friends, and researchers have long proven the reality of these manifestations"

*Where are these fully authenticated and documented visits of incarnate beings? I'm under the impression there has never been a single authenticated case of this paranormal activity. Every claim of one of these manifestations upon further investigation proves it either fraudulent, having some natural explanation, or is inconclusive.


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## RawBudzski (Aug 9, 2011)

No Bashing intended.. but the research and such thats been done here is no Diff than research done in other Areas. Yes its something to think about and wrap your mind around, But its still as Wrong as it may be Right.. Its the same as scientists studying the Big bang, or Gravity, magnetic fields, or time travel.. they Can Come up With GOOD SCENARIOS and Mathematics to help provide a foundation for the idea/theory.. but its still doesnt prove it. I think its safe to say they have done as MUCH research on This as any other subject such as Time travel, and telepathy we could go on.. Yes it is enlightening to read and such may expand ones mind or lead to new discoveries. But, the main thing you must remember, it can be as wrong and misleading as much as it may be correct.. Their are many things we do not understand, and we are no closer to cracking this as the next mystery.


Beansly said:


> Everything they've proposed has a lot of mathematics to back it up.
> Honestly, if you saw the formulas do you think you'd be able to understand it? No offense, but I doubt it. The math used in quantum physics is so far beyond even calculus it ridiculous. Finite math and theoretical math and beyond. I'm sure I could find them but it'd be pointless cause no one here (including me) would understand it.
> They say in the article that it's over-simplified for mass consumption. That the whole thing is a lot more complicated. That's why they don't provide all the "proof" you ask. The 'proof' is a long series mathematical formulas.


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## Beansly (Aug 9, 2011)

Encomium said:


> So if that article had actually cited a few experiments with links this would in no way add credibility to the article's message? I would imagine since, "[There] are a lot of credible, peer-reviewed medical and scientific journals online.", then providing source links to any number of these could have been done.
> 
> I did read the whole thing and that was exactly my impression. That I didn't take every single word that the article wrote as fact makes me stupid?


The reason that they didn't include 'proof' with the article is because it's 4 pages long. I haven't read it yeat but I'm going to in peices.
http://www.cfpf.org.uk/articles/background/scientificproof/scientificproof1.html

I just wanted to have a conversation about it, whether you believe it or not. I think the argument that because it's posted online makes it any less valid is yeah, a little stupid. I 'm sorry. It's posted ne because if it wasn't nobody would know about it. And even if you don't agree with the whole thing, you gotta admit that it's a pretty interesting. I mean, who thought that life after death was even on the list of stuff to research lol. It's important because it fits in with current accepted physics and science. Turns out the one thing holding them back some of the laws proposed by Albert Einstein, but they cite a quote by einstien himself where he basically says the he "may have been on the wrong track after all."


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## Beansly (Aug 9, 2011)

*http://www.cfpf.org.uk/articles/back...ficproof1.html*


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## RawBudzski (Aug 9, 2011)

^ good link. fun read and helps others expand their mind.


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## Beansly (Aug 9, 2011)

guy incognito said:


> So essentially your response is "it's far too complex for you to understand, so just take their conclusions at face value".
> 
> [/COLOR][/B]Where are these fully authenticated and documented visits of incarnate beings? I'm under the impression there has never been a single authenticated case of this paranormal activity. Every claim of one of these manifestations upon further investigation proves it either fraudulent, having some natural explanation, or is inconclusive.


I'm sorry. I didn't mean to come off as if _yes, it's too complex for you feeble minds.... just take my word for it. _I think it's still just a mathematical theory right now, but I just wanted to talk about the whole subject. Like I thought it was prett funny that the guy said he spoke with the man who invented in the infrared camera..lol. Idk if I believe that. I'd like to see these "well documented experiments" also, but I don't consider quantum physicists to be bullshitters lol. They wouldn't say something they couldn't back up because there's a lot of people scrutinizing everything they say.


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## Encomium (Aug 9, 2011)

Beansly said:


> The reason that they didn't include 'proof' with the article is because it's 4 pages long. I haven't read it yeat but I'm going to in peices.
> http://www.cfpf.org.uk/articles/background/scientificproof/scientificproof1.html
> 
> I just wanted to have a conversation about it, whether you believe it or not. I think the argument that because it's posted online makes it any less valid is yeah, a little stupid. I 'm sorry. It's posted ne because if it wasn't nobody would know about it. And even if you don't agree with the whole thing, you gotta admit that it's a pretty interesting. I mean, who thought that life after death was even on the list of stuff to research lol. It's important because it fits in with current accepted physics and science. Turns out the one thing holding them back some of the laws proposed by Albert Einstein, but they cite a quote by einstien himself where he basically says the he "may have been on the wrong track after all."


Just to clarify, it's not that the article was posted online but the fact that it doesn't include any supporting documents or experiments, in link form or footnote/bibliography. If this article was not posted online and published via magazine or other outlet then not providing a bibliography or footnotes makes the article less credible than the same article with supporting evidence provided. 

At any rate I'm open to the idea that spirit/mind does exist and that a "higher" consciousness may mold our perception of the world.


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## Beansly (Aug 9, 2011)

RawBudzski said:


> ^ good link. fun read and helps others expand their mind.


 I love stuff like this. Another part I found particulary interesting is the part that said that this discovery doesn't necessarily disprove the idea of an intelligent design. I'm not so blind that I believe in the judeo-christian man in the clouds, but I do belive there's something that planned all this. 
What especially fucked my brain hole was the part that said that consciousness was a "non-material extension to space-time."
*



Another British astrophysicist and sub-atomic researcher, Michael Scott, BSc, a graduate of Edinburgh University, cites Niels Bohr's "Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics" as seeming to actually require the existence of consciousness as a non-material extension to space-time. Scott makes the point that sub-atomic physics, as explored by him and other researchers worldwide, no longer views the building blocks of the universe as discrete particles of solid substance, but rather as vague, wavelike structures whose existence borders on the ethereal.

Click to expand...

**



In one context of observation, this grid itself could be seen as the Creator-Sustainer of All Things for a number of parallel but separate universes. This premise does not, however, negate the possibility of an even higher, ultimate, Intelligence behind the grid.

Click to expand...

**



"People need to be made aware that their religious faiths have a base strongly supportable by modern physics. There is no longer any reason to think of science and religion as basically incompatible."

Click to expand...

*


Encomium said:


> Just to clarify, it's not that the article was posted online but the fact that it doesn't include any supporting documents or experiments, in link form or footnote/bibliography. If this article was not posted online and published via magazine or other outlet then not providing a bibliography or footnotes makes the article less credible than the same article with supporting evidence provided.


 Oh my bad. I see.


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## RawBudzski (Aug 9, 2011)

Thats whats cool about it, their are people such as you and myself who can wrap their mind around many different subjects, understand them. Yet not let it shake our own beliefs, we dont automatically refuse certain things cause we were taught todo so in Catholic school or some bs sunday service.. all Humans are not Equal. Some have moved on, others are stuck in more primitive ways of thinking. Thats a fact. its when the Religious Nutt Jobs FEEL they deserve an EQUAL say when in reality they dont. Crazy is crazy and the mental issues that may arise with religious ppl is disregarded.


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## rzza (Aug 9, 2011)

YOU AINT WRAPPIN this head around nothin ..........



View attachment 1728073


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## mindphuk (Aug 9, 2011)

[video=youtube;MJBmWvuTrVY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJBmWvuTrVY[/video]


Is consciousness a quantum product? If so, then maybe there is some sort of afterlife.


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## Straight Sativa (Aug 9, 2011)

Nice read. But as mentioned it did ramble on about some rather extraneous biographical information at times.

But one thing this article did not touch upon is a scenario like:

what happens if you get shot in the head while incarnate and your brains are turned to mush? Would this somehow effect or hinder the process of subatomic particles transitioning properly to make the afterlife version of yourself in the same "mental/physical" state as you were when living?

And for that matter...if you were shot in the head with a 12 guage, is that how your "soul" would appear to others in your past world.?


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## rzza (Aug 9, 2011)

deep .


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## Sinsay (Aug 9, 2011)

energy/matter can not be created or destroyed just changed from one form to the next  & that was a bit before * Quantum Physics

*


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## karri0n (Aug 10, 2011)

mindphuk said:


> [video=youtube;MJBmWvuTrVY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJBmWvuTrVY[/video]
> 
> 
> Is consciousness a quantum product? If so, then maybe there is some sort of afterlife.


Any thoughts?


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## Beansly (Aug 11, 2011)

karri0n said:


> Any thoughts?


Well, this guy says the greek had a controversy about consciousness; whether consciousness is created in the brain or if consciousness is a part of the universe and we just access it. Consciousness is one of those subjects that is of incredible interest to me because if you think about it too long, it can drive you mad. How do we truly know that we exist? That this isn't just a dream or something. Am I real because I see things? Because I can feel pain? Is an ant conscious? Is my dog conscious?
What about the idea of universal consciousness? That we all access a universal knowledge like Edgar Casey.
Check this out. pretty interesting. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEpUIcOodnM&feature=related


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## Hepheastus420 (Aug 11, 2011)

karri0n said:


> Any thoughts?


I like ice cream.


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## mugan (Aug 11, 2011)

wow beanz, long read  sounds coo i like to live my life with an open mind and if they find a way to prove this to me al belive but i will not change my out look on morality,


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## Beansly (Aug 12, 2011)

mugan said:


> wow beanz, long read  sounds coo i like to live my life with an open mind and if they find a way to prove this to me al belive but i will not change my out look on morality,


Yeah man for sure.
That reminds me of something else this article made me think about.
Suppose that that it's all true, and there is sub-atomic 'life after death.' The article says that beliefs play no role in whether or not you make it to the afterlife, and that you yourself impart punishment, i.e. 'hell', based on your own beliefs. So if you don't believe in punishment after death, you won't be tormented in the 'after-life.'
OK.
So what do you think would happen if the entire world accepted this as truth? Would the world fall into chaos and anarchy? Where do you draw your morals from? The bible? Disney? Eastern philosophy? Jesus?
I know that the super religious people will just deny it altogether, but what about the rest of us?


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## DrFever (Aug 14, 2011)

i posted this on another thread once your dead your dead sure when you die the light you think your seeing is your brain fighting for air 
what actually happens is once your pronounced dead all your muscles relax and you litterally shit your self but guess what your brain is still living for about another hr once your pronounced dead so your brain is flashing sending signals to other parts of your organs to feed me oxygen lol when a person is on a operating tble before a operation hes well awake lookin around , if you think your not your selfconscious is so they put the mask and put you out on the tble last thing you saw was doctors nurses etc then during operation you die for a few mins well once your heart stops pumping so does the oxygen to your brain and your brain sends out electrical shocks and then its starts goin n goin you think your out of your body but in reality your not standing there on top of your body hahahaha but in reality its just your sub conscious thinking that your brain flashes memorys right to your child hood things you wouldnt never remember if you tryed its all the brain fighting for 02 peeps 

sorry to say Ashes to ashes dust to dust your dead and thats all once your brain has depleted all its 02 the light runs out and your done


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## Farfenugen (Aug 15, 2011)

Death is the last great orgasm


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