# ebb and flow reservoir size



## ForcedInduction (Aug 29, 2009)

i ordered everything i need for my new ebb and flow setup a few days ago. should be here monday.


my flood tray is 19"x19" and 6"deep and made of steel. i'm am planning on filling it up with hydroton and putting the plants directly in it, no rockwool. i might use 3" net cups for support if they can't hold themselves up.

but anyways how big should my reservoir be? would ten gallons be enough? i'm planning on having up to 5 plants in the tray


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## lisa99 (Aug 29, 2009)

10 gallons sounds just about right. actually, test with a 5 gallon bucket first, might be ok. I ran a temporary e&F system at about those dimensions and my 5 gallon pail was great.


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

Ok, i would much rather use a 5 gallon bucket.


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## highpsi (Aug 30, 2009)

> my flood tray is 19"x19" and 6"deep and made of steel.


I hope that's stainless steel you're talking about, otherwise you're going to need a plastic liner of some sort. The nutrient salts will react with regular steel, and cause it to corrode and rust. Not only that but your nutrient mix will get all messed up because of all the ions bonding with the steel, thus degrading the nutrient. All hydroponic parts, trays, plumbing, etc. (anything with water contact) have to be made of plastic or some other inert material.

In regards to what size res you'll need, there is an equation for that:

Length(cm) X Width(cm) X Height(cm) = Volume(cu.cm.) 

So you've got 19"x19"x6", however, you obviously aren't going to be flooding to the top, so 4" is probably where you'll flood to.

....So 48.26cm X 48.26cm X 10.16cm = 23662.92 cubic cm = {convert to liters by dividing by 1000) = 23.7 liters {convert to gallons by dividing by 3.78} = 6.27 gallons

So you'll need 6.27 gal of solution to flood to 4" height


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

yes its stainless, its a bin from one of those commercial sinks you see in restaurants. you think i will have problems?

thanks for the equation, i've been trying to find one. i will probably get a 10 gallon tote and fill it up with 8 gallons


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## tea tree (Aug 30, 2009)

Also If you pack the table with other objects you can save some gallons. I got that equaion off bghydros website too. They got lots of ebb and flow help. I ran a table and used an eighteen gallon rubber,aid as the res. Cheap and durable, they work great. Also the botanicare ebb and flow fittings are nice to buy for like 10 bucks with shipping. They can turn anything into a pro table.


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

i'm planning on filling the tray with just hydroton. yeah i got one of those fittings but its from sunleaves. heres what i ordered from cheaphydroponics.com

General Hydroponics FloraBloom - Qt 1 $8.50
General Hydroponics FloraGro - Qt 1 $8.50 
General Hydroponics FloraMicro - Qt 1 $13.50 
General Hydroponics Liquid KoolBloom - Qt 1 $15.00 
Sunleaves DuraPump H20 - 185GPH 1 $13.00 
1/2" Barbed Elbows - 5pk 1 $3.00 
Sunleaves Fill & Drain Kit 1/2 1 $7.00 
Sunleaves Soft Black Tubing 1/2" - 25Ft $10.00 
1/2" Barbed Tees - 5pk 1 $3.00 
GH pH Control Kit 1 $12.75 
Bluelab Truncheon Meter - PPM/TDS, CF, EC 1 $110.00 
Nutrient Syringe 60cc / 2oz 1 $2.35 
General Hydroponics 1/2" Grommet 8 $5.60 
Hydroton Grow Rocks - 10l 2 $17.00 
3" Net Pot 8 $2.80 
Kord Square Pot 4" 8 $2.40


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## laserbrn (Aug 30, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> i'm planning on filling the tray with just hydroton. yeah i got one of those fittings but its from sunleaves. heres what i ordered from cheaphydroponics.com
> 
> General Hydroponics FloraBloom - Qt 1 $8.50
> General Hydroponics FloraGro - Qt 1 $8.50
> ...


 
Do I see 10L of hydroton on this list? That ain't going to do it for that size tray. You are going to need more like 50l of hydroton at least. I have a 3x3 and it took me 2 large bags >100l of hydroton to fill it up. I personally wouldn't use even a stainless steel tray.


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

i got 2 10l bags. i guess i'm gonna give the stainless a shot, because the tray is the perfect size and it was free


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

The bigger the res the more stable it is...

The more stable your res... the better off your plants will be..

I say any less than 20 gal and you are asking for pH and PPM nightmares...

BUT... go with what you know...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> The bigger the res the more stable it is...
> 
> The more stable your res... the better off your plants will be..
> 
> ...



i would love to have 20 gal, but i dont really have the room.. it can't be more than 14 inches wide so i need something tall and skinny


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## highpsi (Aug 30, 2009)

By that same equation, you can figure out how much hydroton you'll need as well. You've got 20l of hydroton and to fill your tray to 4" height is 23.7 liters of volume. So you should be able to fill your tray to around 3.5" with hydroton, that should be plenty. You could also fill up pots and do it that way, but you should be fine doing it either way. You also have to take into account that all that hydroton is taking up volume that water would otherwise take, so you probably will only need a 5 gal res to fill that up. You won't know for sure until you've got everything set up. Just for ease of use and future proofing, I would use a rubbermaid tote (15 gal) and just fill it up half way.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

Just speaking from personal experience... 

Get the biggest res you can possibly fit... walmart has plastic containers of just about every size...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

i guess i should have ordered more! oh well next time. 3.5 should be fine, i might even do 3" so i can have a little extra to fill a couple 3" net pots to do dwc on the side.

gypsy, i'm gonna go as big as possible! no walmart around here but i've been to kmart and home depot a couple times looking at different sizes, i can't find anything tall and skinny..

maybe i could connect 2 5 gal buckets together and have a dual reservoir? how would i do that? or maybe 2 10 gal totes?


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## laserbrn (Aug 30, 2009)

I wouldn't agree that bigger is better when it comes to the reservoir. If you run into problem you have to to flush that big ass reservoir. That means flushing and wasting more nutes. You are going to adjust PH every day anyway with all that hydroton and I wouldn't expect a larger reservoir to do much good. If you're a good diligent grower you're going to be flushing that res. every two weeks anyway and flushing a ton of nutes down the toilet is a bitch.

Get an appropriately sized reservoir and things will be cheaper for you. That being said, I agree that 5 gallons isn't likely to be large enough. 10 gallons sounds about right to me.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

Office/kitchen trash cans are usually tall and skinny..

Hell... get some bits of wood, make a frame and throw some pond liner over it...

Go with what you know bro...

But I have been there and small reservoirs are nothing but trouble...

The plants drink the fast, the ppm shoots up the ph shoots up... 

Then you're chasing them all over the place... everyday...

*

To small a res and the plants will drink the water faster than they use the nutes... so the PPM climbs...

To big a res and the plants use the nutes faster than they drink water, causing the PPM to decrease...

The correct size res will maintain a balance... the plants will consume the nutes at the same rate as they intake water... maintaining a stable solution...*



Reservoir stability is very important.. the plants do not like shifting pH and PPM....


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## laserbrn (Aug 30, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Office/kitchen trash cans are usually tall and skinny..
> 
> Hell... get some bits of wood, make a frame and throw some pond liner over it...
> 
> ...


The ratio of how much ppm the plants drink to water really only relates to how hungry the plants are versus how thirsty they are. If your PPM is rising in your reservoir you have too strong of a nute solution. If it's dropping then it's not strong enough. Not directly related to reservoir size at all.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> I wouldn't agree that bigger is better when it comes to the reservoir.


based on what?




> If you run into problem you have to to flush that big ass reservoir. That means flushing and wasting more nutes.


What kind of problem causes you to flush?

I have never had to do it...



> You are going to adjust PH every day anyway with all that hydroton and I wouldn't expect a larger reservoir to do much good.


Bollocks...!

My pH stays stable for well over a week... 5.7~6.2 pH





> If you're a good diligent grower you're going to be flushing that res. every two weeks anyway and flushing a ton of nutes down the toilet is a bitch.



I agree that a bigger res requires more nutes...

But I do not use a ton... at all... in fact I use about $40 a month worth of nutes to get an Oz a day...

That is not very much in my book... deff. not a waste...




> Get an appropriately sized reservoir and things will be cheaper for you.


Maybe I use the "bigger the better" term loosely, knowing that people will only have so much room... and that they will end up using something small...

I agree with what you said...

but chances are that the right size res is bigger than they were going to use anyways...

Take more as a "forum slang" to get a point across than a hard "get a one million gallon res for your 1 plant"...




> That being said, I agree that 5 gallons isn't likely to be large enough. 10 gallons sounds about right to me.


10 is better than 5...

but say... how quickly will a 10 gallon res warm up to room temp?

I vote for stability any day... your plants will like you for it...


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

I would love to know what you are basing your information on...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

hmm good idea gypsy maybe i will make my own out of wood, don't i need a cover to keep light out though??

thanks for all the info guys i have a lot to think about, what about connecting 2 10 gallon totes together? 

i'm thinking between 8-10 gallons will be right for me.

i agree stability is better, but i think i would rather have to chase around the ppm and ph a little bit more to have less water


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

You can use just about anything to make a cover bro...

from wood to plastic to whatever you can imagine, that would do the job...

Connecting reservoirs sound like a leak nightmare to me...

I still say go as big as you can...

YOU will only benefit from a bigger res...

Even if you spend a few more buck in nutes... the stability of your res will reward you with a bigger yield...

Being dialed in and stable is what gets you the big Gram per Watt numbers...



..

And Laser, I am sorry if I came off as rude... I didn't mean to...

But I am basing what I am saying on actual grow experience...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

thanks gypsy your always a huge help. i found a cooler that i think will fit perfectly. i'm washing it now and waiting for it to dry so i can test fit it.


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## laserbrn (Aug 30, 2009)

You are trying to claim you've never flushed a reservoir? I don't even know how to respond to that.

Flushing should be done every 2 weeks regardless of problems or not. You don't know exactly WHAT nutrients the plants took up and at what rate. Say they were hungry for nitrogen the first 2 weeks and ate it all up, but didn't eat up any P or K. You just add more of your mixture the balance will be off and you won't be adding enough of the N it may still need or P or K or whatever the case may be.

I use AN nutes and they don't cost me $40.00 so it does concern me.

I agree you shouldn't have a minimal reservoir. I usually figure that if it takes 5 gallons to fill it, you shoudl get about a 10-15 gallon reservoir. If you have a lot of plants in that tray than it will require a larger res. as it will drink a lot more, but as a guideline it works. I certainly wouldn't get a 5 gallon if it takes 5 gallons to fill it.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> You are trying to claim you've never flushed a reservoir? I don't even know how to respond to that.


no...

I said I do not have problems that cause me to flush...

I change my res every 2 weeks...



> Flushing should be done every 2 weeks regardless of problems or not.


Sure... I never said I didn't change and clean my res...

But I never had to do an "extra" one because of problems...




> You don't know exactly WHAT nutrients the plants took up and at what rate. Say they were hungry for nitrogen the first 2 weeks and ate it all up, but didn't eat up any P or K. You just add more of your mixture the balance will be off and you won't be adding enough of the N it may still need or P or K or whatever the case may be.


Oh I know...

I think we all know that here...



> I use AN nutes and they don't cost me $40.00 so it does concern me.


Right on.. some people like to pay more...

I like to pay less... and keep it simple...

I use ONE nute and H2O2...



> I agree you shouldn't have a minimal reservoir. I usually figure that if it takes 5 gallons to fill it, you shoudl get about a 10-15 gallon reservoir. If you have a lot of plants in that tray than it will require a larger res. as it will drink a lot more, but as a guideline it works. I certainly wouldn't get a 5 gallon if it takes 5 gallons to fill it.


We are all on the same team bro...

Maybe "as big as practical" would have been a better phrase...

I dunno...

But any time someone asks me what MY EXPERIENCE was...

I will tell them that an undersized reservoirs are a nightmare... go big...

...

I didn't read that somewhere... no one told me either...

I did it and learned through trial and error...

I know what works and what doesn't cause I had my time and money invested in it...

...


But like I said..we are all on the same team here...


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## laserbrn (Aug 30, 2009)

That makes more sense. I used to use cheaper nutes too and I didn't want to buy into the "hype" of AN nutes. Then I used their nutrient calculator and gave them a try once. It did make a substantial difference using Bud Blood, Big Bud and Overdrive. The plants are definitely more vigorous in flower.

"As big as practical" works for me too. I just hate when someone w/ a 2x2 tray goes out and buys a 40 gallon reservoir. That's just a waste and the hydro store WILL sell it to you.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> That makes more sense. I used to use cheaper nutes too and I didn't want to buy into the "hype" of AN nutes. Then I used their nutrient calculator and gave them a try once. It did make a substantial difference using Bud Blood, Big Bud and Overdrive. The plants are definitely more vigorous in flower.


I have gone full circle...

All of my grows are logged here on RIU...

There is no difference that ANYONE can point out to me...

My buds look the same throughout... 

And they look OK if I may say...

I went all over the place trying to find something that actually made a difference...

Today I use this in my flower room.......











> "As big as practical" works for me too. I just hate when someone w/ a 2x2 tray goes out and buys a 40 gallon reservoir. That's just a waste and the hydro store WILL sell it to you.




I use a 100 gallon res filled to 70 gal for each of my 3x3 trays...

And I would not go smaller unless I was FORCED...

and Like I said... $40 a month in nutes gives me a zip a day... everyday...

Do you think that is a wasteful op? 

At least 1 gram per watt... AVERAGE...

You can see for yourself... look twds the end of the page...

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/167596-gypsys-picture-depot-162.html

...


Not to mention my big girls... 

each in a 19 gallon pot of hydroton with a 50 gallon res...

Top Feed AND ebb flow...

Here you see them at the end of week 3 of 12/12...

I think SIMPLE nutes and BIG res is working for me...

What do you think?


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

And just to clarify..

I do would not mind more trays sharing the same 100 gallon res...

But I would not go to a smaller volume res...


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## laserbrn (Aug 30, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> And just to clarify..
> 
> I do would not mind more trays sharing the same 100 gallon res...
> 
> But I would not go to a smaller volume res...


 
I dunno, here's my white widows @ 4 weeks in my 3x3 tray with a 20 gallon reservoir using A/N nutes. It costs a little more but I definitely see a difference...


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## laserbrn (Aug 30, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> I dunno, here's my white widows @ 4 weeks in my 3x3 tray with a 20 gallon reservoir using A/N nutes. It costs a little more but I definitely see a difference...


 
One thing I do tell people and I do DEFINITELY believe though is that the nutrients don't make HUGE differences. If you want bigger plants or more vigorous growth all good growers know you need more light. Cramming more expensive or more nutes isn't going to WOW you like more light will.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

considering you are a week ahead and that I am growing bagseed... 

I see no need to spend more dollars...

I look at it kinda like the racers...

It takes "X" dollars to go 150mph... but it takes 10x "X" to go 200mph...

I like simple... 

It gives me the most bud for each dollar I spend...


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> One thing I do tell people and I do DEFINITELY believe though is that the nutrients don't make HUGE differences. If you want bigger plants or more vigorous growth all good growers know you need more light. Cramming more expensive or more nutes isn't going to WOW you like more light will.


you said it...

...

and you saw my plants...

do you think they are lacking anything?

Do they not look healthy and vigorous?

..


Bro...I am not knocking you...

Your buds are beautiful...

...

I'm just thinking that my op is FAR from wasteful...


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> considering you are a week ahead and that I am growing bagseed...


Not to mention that big plants like that move a "little slower"...


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## laserbrn (Aug 30, 2009)

definitely not. You've definitely got your system down and it's working for you. I usually grow smaller plants as the turnaround for me is quicker and I use a single 600w light in each tent. I tried longer veg's and bigger plants but found it to be less efficient for me.

I never said your setup was wasteful, but a lot of people waste a lot in flushes becasue they have giant reservoirs. I don't think your reservoir is WAY off base, but a 100 gallon reservoir for a 3x3 tray is a bit much. I understand it makes things easeir for you though and it will help keep your ph more stable, I just wouldn't want to have to deal with flushing that big dog. Cleaning it, flushing it, filling it, etc. But I keep my setup small and simple as I only grow my own smoke.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> definitely not. You've definitely got your system down and it's working for you. I usually grow smaller plants as the turnaround for me is quicker and I use a single 600w light in each tent. I tried longer veg's and bigger plants but found it to be less efficient for me.


I'm an Al B. Fuct SOG man...

The trees are just am experiment...



> I never said your setup was wasteful, but a lot of people waste a lot in flushes becasue they have giant reservoirs. I don't think your reservoir is WAY off base, but a 100 gallon reservoir for a 3x3 tray is a bit much. I understand it makes things easeir for you though and it will help keep your ph more stable, I just wouldn't want to have to deal with flushing that big dog. Cleaning it, flushing it, filling it, etc. But I keep my setup small and simple as I only grow my own smoke.


I have pumps that do all the water transfers... it's pretty easy actually...

I clean the res with a long handle brush... don't even wet my hands...

The H2O2 takes care of anything I may miss...

And yeah...

When I have all 4 trays going I do 2 3x3s for each 70 gallons of solution...

But anysmaller of a res and I have to start topping off... and messing with the ppm...

the way it is... I fill it.. and I do check every other day or so... but I usually do NOTHING to the res in 2 weeks... MAYBE a little Ph Down...


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## laserbrn (Aug 30, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I'm an Al B. Fuct SOG man...
> 
> The trees are just am experiment...
> 
> ...


 
I do have to adjust my ph quite a bit, but seems like a lot more since I started using hydroton even though I soaked the pellets in 5.5 adjusted water before starting.


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

You soak your pellets???

Yeah.. bro... I am deff on the lazy stoner path...

My nutes bring my Ph into range... I only adjust IF needed... usually at day 10 or 11...

PPM stays stable as well... ALWAYS 1400 PPM plus or minus 50...

I think that the less I do .. the better it is...

and all that revolves around a big res...

but hey...

My first grow was done in a 1 gallon AeroGarden... 

so yeah you can totally grow with a small res...

But you will have issues...

and anytime you have issues, your yield suffers...

being dialed in and stable is what makes or breaks an op's efficiency...

Even a little nute burn, or slight defficiency.. knock you off the ideal mark... and hurt you in the end...

make your temps stable... make you RH stable... make your solution
stable and you will see what your genetics have to offers you...

Any less than perfectly ideal and you will suffer...

I vote big res any day...

they are just more stable...

but enough of all this...

I think we all get the points being made...

blah blah blah...

Nice chatting with you Laser...

Thanks for a good healthy discussion with no name callings... these seem to be rare around here...

Cheers Bro.. and see you around...


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## laserbrn (Aug 30, 2009)

Same to you. I'm laid up in a hospital right now bored to tears so I'm kinda just pushing this just so I can "Talk Shop" instead of wanting to just blow my brains out from the boredom. 

I may try a larger res in the future, but thus far I dig my setup. It get's the job done for a little 600w setup. I only drop my ph about .2 each day. My ppm stays really stable, but I read the ppm to get it into the ideal range for what I'm growing. I've definitely found that some plants are WAY different than others. For example, grow BB Blue Cheese in that 1400ppm res and see what happens (over fert like crazy). Yet I know that my WW would handle it just fine. BB Blue Cheese over 900 it's pretty unhappy.


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

i just realized my flood tray is aluminum not steel. is that ok?


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

I would line it with plastic...

I personally would not use metal... any metal...

There are so many plastic tubs that can be used as trays...

but that is just my opinion... wrong material...

I vote for the Botanicare white trays...

but you can even make your own...

I say go with plastic...


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Same to you. I'm laid up in a hospital right now bored to tears so I'm kinda just pushing this just so I can "Talk Shop" instead of wanting to just blow my brains out from the boredom.


I hear you brother...

I was there not too long ago...

The docs are still trying to make me walk right again...

Surgery #7 is already scheduled...

It's been a long ass 2 years...

So yeah.. I can sympathize ...

Best wished Brother...







> I may try a larger res in the future, but thus far I dig my setup. It get's the job done for a little 600w setup.


That is all I have... 600 Watters... one over each 3x3 normally... right now 2 are over those 3 plants...



> I only drop my ph about .2 each day. My ppm stays really stable, but I read the ppm to get it into the ideal range for what I'm growing.


If you had to go away for 2 weeks...

I had surgegry, I was home.. but there was no way in hell I could go down steps or up... to get into the op...

2 weeks unattended...

I did not need to top off... and my pH went from a "on purpose" low of 5.6 to a high of 6.3 in 14 days with at least 2 trays in heavy flower...

14 days at a .2 per day drop means.. a 2.8 difference...

that means even if you start at 5.6... you will be at 8.4 when you get home... 

although chances are it will not climb that high... and just stop somewhere until things got really out of whack...

I know.. it's a far stretch.. but I did build my op while on a wheel chair and crutches...



> I've definitely found that some plants are WAY different than others. For example, grow BB Blue Cheese in that 1400ppm res and see what happens (over fert like crazy).



ABSOLUTELY...

I run 7 strains... so I found a "happy medium" ..

but the poor BC Juicy Fruit... she barely survives the pre-set 1400ppm...

no burns.. just so much stress that the yield is pathetic... if tasty...

In fact I keep it around just cause it tastes so damn good..

but you are right.. this strain, and others would thrive in very different conditions than what I mentioned...



> Yet I know that my WW would handle it just fine. BB Blue Cheese over 900 it's pretty unhappy.


I have an "old hippie clone".. a sative strain that likes 1600 and will take close to 2000 without too much fuss...

yet as I mentioned ..

Other strains would fry up and die...

So you are absolutely right there Brother..


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I would line it with plastic...
> 
> I personally would not use metal... any metal...
> 
> ...


what will the problem be with aluminum? i cleaned the shit out of it with steel wool and then wiped it down with rubbing alcohol. 

the problem with getting another tray is i can't find anything thats the right size. this aluminum one is perfect. and i don't really want to make a table lol


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

Line it with plastic...

It's just a suggestion...

The pro's say no metal parts in hydro...

It's got something to do with something... 

I listen and have good results... that's all I know on that one...

Just get some pond liner from home depot and you have no thing to worry about...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

ok, how should i seal it with the flood and drain fittings?


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## tom__420 (Aug 30, 2009)

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5/R-100001948/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> ok, how should i seal it with the flood and drain fittings?


The fittings I get have rubber o-rings... or flat rubber washers...

Those are enough in my op...

With an appropriately sized hole, I have never had one leak...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

ouch 20 bucks no way, could i use some thick plastic sheeting? i mean like how do i seal the plastic so water doesn't leak behind the plastic at the fitting?


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## tom__420 (Aug 30, 2009)

You will need some aquarium silicone or any waterproof silicone to seal it up real nice


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> ouch 20 bucks no way, could i use some thick plastic sheeting? i mean like how do i seal the plastic so water doesn't leak behind the plastic at the fitting?


with rubber o-rings or rubber washers...

they should have come with your fittings...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

ok, i guess i will figure it out when my stuff comes tomorrow. i kind of want to just try using the aluminum with no liner or anything.


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## tom__420 (Aug 30, 2009)

I thought it was stainless steel...?


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

no looking at it closer i realized its aluminum


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

tom__420 said:


> You will need some aquarium silicone or any waterproof silicone to seal it up real nice


I am not a big fan of that...

I say drill the right size hole and use a gasket...



ForcedInduction said:


> ok, i guess i will figure it out when my stuff comes tomorrow. i kind of want to just try using the aluminum with no liner or anything.


Try it dude..

the worse that can happen is you not like it and change it...

But I say slap the thickest plastic (food grade preferred) you can find and use the rubber washers...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

ok i will try and line it with plastic first and if turns out to be a pain in the ass i will just go for it with nothing. whats the worst that can happen, the aluminum will kill my plants? lol


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

possibly.....

this is just from th enet... so take it with a grain of salt...

but it makes enough sense to me...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> possibly.....


i guess i will have to line it then lol


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## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

I am not saying IT WILL...

But I bet more people would use metal if it was ok...

pretty much everyone uses plastic... and it's for a reason...


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## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

i guess i should play it safe and line it. i have the perfect plastic to do it with.


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

and the rubber grommets should be enough... if you drill the right size hole...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

i will be sure to drill the right sized hole. i hope there are instructions that tell me the right size


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

DUDE...

it's just a hole...

it can be too small...

too big..

or just right...

..

use the proper tool and MAKE IT just right...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

i'm assuming it should be a half inch hole because they are half inch fittings

http://cheaphydroponics.com/store/view-all/sunleaves-fill-drain-kit-1/2-/prod_44.html


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> *i'm assuming* it should be a half inch hole because they are half inch fittings
> 
> http://cheaphydroponics.com/store/view-all/sunleaves-fill-drain-kit-1/2-/prod_44.html









































​


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> ​


LOL



so its not?


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

I dunno...

You gotta measure it..

Different kinds are different..

I personally have 3 different kinds...

Just measure it..

and remember ... you can always take some more out.. but never put it back...

...

dude... it's just a hole..


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

haha i know but i don't wanna make it too big and ruin my pan


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 30, 2009)

then don't assume anything...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

i wasn't planning on drilling before i know exactly what size it needs to be


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

i still haven't been able to order my 400w hps and cooltube from htg


----------



## tom__420 (Aug 30, 2009)

http://www.hidhut.com/catalog/400w-hps-digital-ballast-bulb-and-glass-tube-reflector-combo-p-408.html

The kit doesn't say the specs of the items it comes with so I will post links of each for ya

6" Cool tube: http://www.hidhut.com/catalog/glass-tube-reflector-p-401.html

Digital Ballast: http://www.hidhut.com/catalog/400w-mhhps-120240v-digital-ballast-p-49.html

Bulb: http://www.hidhut.com/catalog/full-spectrum-400w-hps-bulb-p-59.html

I was really considering ordering this but I decided to order a similar kit off ebay instead.
I heard good things about this site though


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

looks like a good deal but i don't know if i would trust a no name brand digital ballast


----------



## tom__420 (Aug 30, 2009)

Alright man you can buy your light by the brand name


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 30, 2009)

i'm buying my light based on the reputation it has. i have heard so many good things about the htg setup


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 31, 2009)

tom__420 said:


> Alright man you can buy your light by the brand name


now i'm thinking i might get a lumatek ballast i hear that they are dimmable?


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 31, 2009)

http://www.hydrowholesale.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?

what about that??


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 31, 2009)

I say be patient and get the 600 with cooltube from HTG...

I have 2 of them and love them...

And if anything ever happens.. I KNOW they will back it 100%... cause they have...

And if you are really thinking on the 400w...

then I say look at this ballast... at least you can slap a 600 bulb in it without having to buy a new ballast.. when you decide to kick yourself in the but for getting the 400w...

HPS/MH... 110v/220v... 400w/600w...

http://www.plantitearth.com/whats-hot/nextgen-electronic-ballast.aspx





*$249.95 600w/400w Dual Wattage NextGen Ballast *


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 31, 2009)

yeah but 250 bucks! i want a 600 but it would be way to hot..


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 31, 2009)

My 600 watt tent was 20"x36"x54"...

But maybe I already convinced you to step up from the 250w...

I'm old dude.. I forget ...

but seriously... 

good ventilation and you're good to go...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 31, 2009)

haha yeah you did

i am going to be using reducers so i can attach the cooltube to my 4 inch ducting. i think the 600 would be a little too much. but i would love to get the 400/600 for those "cold" nights...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 31, 2009)

http://www.growlightexpress.com/grow-light-ballasts-3/electronic-ballasts-22/nextgen-600-400-watt-digital-ballast-920.html


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 31, 2009)

I have heard good things about that ballast...

quality wise..

I, personally would never use the 400w side...

but for someone in hotter climate that would be the shit.. run the 600 during winter.. and switch back to 400 in the summer..

But still...

I recommend HTG all the way..

I am very happy with everything I bought from them...

even when shit got screwed up.. they made sure I was happy in the end...

I will keep buying from them...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 31, 2009)

yeah but htg doesn't have the 400/600.............


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 31, 2009)

if you are into that.. the go for it mate...

I guarantee you will use that 600 as often as you can... it WILL give you better buds...

..

Just remind me that you ARE ventilating this op properly... with at least a 4" centrifugal fan for the light and a 6" centrifugal fan for exhaust... and that you can maintain 75F ambient outside your tent...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 31, 2009)

maybe i will just go with a 400w lumatek. i am using a squirrel cage fan...


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 31, 2009)

should be fine...

you just don;t want those duct boosters...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 31, 2009)

haha yeah i'm staying away from them


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 31, 2009)

ok so i think i'm going to get the cap nextgen 400/600. and then buy the cooltube and bulbs maybe from high tech garden. do i need a seperate 400 and 600 bulb? or can i just get a 600 watter and run it on the 400 setting?


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 31, 2009)

if i do get it i think it will be from here http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/cap-400w-or-600w-nextgen-90v260v-electronic-ballast-p-2494.html

200 plus 10 bucks for shipping.

actually they don't do discreet shipping so maybe i will get it from nehydro.com


----------



## GypsyBush (Aug 31, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> ok so i think i'm going to get the cap nextgen 400/600. and then buy the cooltube and bulbs maybe from high tech garden. do i need a seperate 400 and 600 bulb? or can i just get a 600 watter and run it on the 400 setting?


You need the appropriate size bulb...

...

Didn't you say the Lumateks were "dimm-able"...

You may be able to get the same "effect" as the dual wattage with only one bulb...

But I have no idea how well those work.... or the downside of the dimmer...




ForcedInduction said:


> if i do get it i think it will be from here http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/cap-400w-or-600w-nextgen-90v260v-electronic-ballast-p-2494.html
> 
> 200 plus 10 bucks for shipping.
> 
> actually they don't do discreet shipping so maybe i will get it from nehydro.com



I would make sure to order via phone when you do...

Get the name of the person helping you.. that way, you are a "known" costumer... not just some internet order number...

that's just me though...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 31, 2009)

well i have it all set up with 8 gallons in the res now. i will prob use 10 for flowering.

but i can't seem to get the last half inch of water to drain out.


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 31, 2009)

ok, i can not for the life of me get this thing to drain compeletly....will i get bad root rot if theres some water left at the bottom?


----------



## tom__420 (Aug 31, 2009)

I haven't used ebb and flow much but I don't think still sitting water is good


----------



## ForcedInduction (Aug 31, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> ok, i can not for the life of me get this thing to drain compeletly....will i get bad root rot if theres some water left at the bottom?


............


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

well i just adjusted my PH for the first time. it came out of the tap at 6.0 tonight i checked it and it was at 6.5 so i brought it back down to 6.

my ec is at 1.6 or 800 ppm. which scale do i use for ppm on my bluelab? there is one that says ECx500 and one that says ECx700

it is a really nice meter, i already dropped it in the tank once lol


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 1, 2009)

OK...

Stop everything...

I'm confused...

Let's go back to square one...... sorry...

so.. 

you are doing ebb flow... 

and using that cooler as your water res...

and that "sink" lines with plastic as a tray...

Did I get it right so far?

..

all right..

so now?

I dunno... maybe it's just me.. and about a dozen other people here..

But I think your tray should have POTS filled with hydroton...

Not the whole tray filled like that...


For many reasons...

you can move the plants is probably the best...

...

5" pots have more than enough room for roots bro..

Save yourself the hassle... make it easy... use pots...

..


Now...

THAT is going to be a NICE FUCKING LOLLIPOP under a 400w HPS...



>



And as for...





> Originally Posted by *ForcedInduction*
> _ok, i can not for the life of me get this thing to drain compeletly....will i get bad root rot if theres some water left at the bottom?_


Standing water is not desirable... it invites growies...

That is why I switched from DIY to BOTANICARE trays... ... for the exact reason...

If you have pots though... you can set something under each pot to elevate it slightly above the standing water...

But be ready to fight the pathogens...



and....



> well i just adjusted my PH for the first time. it came out of the tap at 6.0 tonight i checked it and it was at 6.5 so i brought it back down to 6.


The smaller the res.. the faster the changes happen..



> my ec is at 1.6 or 800 ppm. which scale do i use for ppm on my bluelab? there is one that says ECx500 and one that says ECx700...it is a really nice meter, i already dropped it in the tank once lol


I flower at 1400PPM.. but my meter is in ppm... I don't have to convert anything..

I also like that the probes never dry out, as they live in the res.... it's a hanna grocheck continuous ppm/ph meter...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> OK...
> 
> Stop everything...
> 
> ...


yes i'm using the cooler as my res. it has 8 gallons now but i will use 10-12 during flowering.
yes the aluminum tray is lined with plastic. it actually is sealed up really nice

i think i am going to put a couple airstones in the bottom of the pan and run them 24/7 will that solve the standing water problem? 

i may switch to pots but i only have 8 of them...i would have to place another order which i dont want to do, and i kind of like having the tray filled up with hydroton, i'm going to stick as many plants as i can in there.

as for the lollipop, its a lot bigger now! its under my 70w hps

my meter reads EC, CF, PPMx500 and PPMx700

idk which scale to use lol


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 1, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> yes i'm using the cooler as my res. it has 8 gallons now but i will use 10-12 during flowering.
> yes the aluminum tray is lined with plastic. it actually is sealed up really nice


All right.. glad to hear it worked out well...



> i think i am going to put a couple airstones in the bottom of the pan and run them 24/7 will that solve the standing water problem?


Well.. you could...

But if you used pots, you could just set on inside the other.. or on top of a dish... anything to get the roots out of the standing water...



> i may switch to pots but i only have 8 of them...i would have to place another order which i dont want to do


Dude... get some 2 liter coke bottles...

They make nice pots...



> , and i kind of like having the tray filled up with hydroton, i'm going to stick as many plants as i can in there.



If I was going to tell you to listen to good advice when it comes your way.. this would be a good time...

Use pots.... solid pots.. not net pots...

There is a saying the we can see farther because we stando on the shoulders of giants...

Well... it's been tried... pots work best...

You can try it... but I guarantee you that 2 years from now you will be using pots...

Use the knowledge of those that tried before you... 

They already wasted their time on that test so you don;t have to...

..

Just a thought bro...

but I say go with pots...



> as for the lollipop, its a lot bigger now! its under my 70w hps


You will be amazed...

I have had lollies from my 600 weigh more than 1oz dried and cured...



> my meter reads EC, CF, PPMx500 and PPMx700
> 
> idk which scale to use lol


I have no idea...

That is a good question for NewGrowth...

I'll ask him...

But I would go with the one that reads the highest just to be safe...

Do not over fert bro... you will loose all the way to harvest...

a little under is TONS better than a little over...

But I'll ask NG..


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> All right.. glad to hear it worked out well...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



wellll i guess its settled...i'm switching to pots lol. now to just gather up some 2 liter bottles....

i can't wait to get ounces from one plant.. i will be veryy amazed, and high. i'm not high at all tonight.. i'm trying to saver the 7g's i got from my last harvest....lol

i have been reading that most people use the PPMx700 but it would be better to find out for sure.

i've been trying to figure out the lucas formula.. i definitly don't want to over nute


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 1, 2009)

NG will get back to me and I will let you know...

I gave him this link so he may just pop in here...

He really knows his shit...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

thanks gypsy, i really appreciate it


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

man i cant wait for my new light


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 1, 2009)

I know EXACTLY how you feel...

I was running 2x 70HPS, 1x 100w MH and about 200w worth of CFLs the day my 600w arrived...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

hahaha yeah i'm using 1 70w hps and about 300w of cfl


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 1, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I know EXACTLY how you feel...
> 
> I was running 2x 70HPS, 1x 100w MH and about 200w worth of CFLs the day my 600w arrived...


Here's my first grow..
​


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

i've seen those pics several times 

didn't you do it in the nightstand in a hotel room? how the hell did you get away with that?


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 1, 2009)

Sure did...

and I still don't know how I pulled it off... IT STANK!!!! and I had zero odor control..


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

ha ha i bet it did! you must have been in that hotel room for a long ass time! 

so if i'm going to use 2 liter bottles don't i need to block out the light?

also the standing water in the tray, won't it grow algae sitting in the light? could i solve that problem with an airstone?


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 1, 2009)

light and water will give life.. even of the water is aerated...

You will have to clean your tray often...

OR you can cut plastic squares and cover every pot... cardboard works too...

I used panda film... so it reflects light back up too...

Ideally you need to black out the pots.. but if you are going to cover them... you can probably get by with not ...

Xare doesn't do anything to his...

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/210779-400-watt-2-liter-hempy.html


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

Xare said:


> I tried the buckets a couple of ways. A single big hole for draining or a bunch of smaller holes.
> 
> I think I like the latter best.
> 
> ...


............


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 1, 2009)

my bad...

I use this kind... @ $0.50 a piece...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

i wish i knew that before i ordered my shit last night! i gotta find some locally i guess.... i'm gonna miss having a full tray of hydroton  i love that shit


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

keep the res topped off with water,

add nutes to the res on a regular basis, weekly is often enough, to bring the TDS back up to normal levels of a new res.

during water addbacks, TDS will fall, and pH will rise

after nute addbacks, TDS will rise, and pH will fall

if the res is not draw down more than 10% of its volume between refils, the pH wont go too low, and the TDS wont go too high, between reservoir topp offs


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 1, 2009)

with 6" pots in ebb flow, you can use as many as fit the tray, though I would opt for half as many. for a 400w light, I recommend a 20 gallon res. 6 gallons may be fine, if you keep it topped off.

The concern with res size, is that as water is used up, nutes get stronger, and pH drops. You can use any res size, as long as TDS does not get too high, and pH does not get too low.

the other issue is that if you flood your table to a 3" depth, that could use 4.5 gallons, so the concern would be to make sure the pump is still under water in the remaining gallon and a half... now if you dont top up the res, and it drops by a gallon a day, which is possible with a 400w, you need to make sure your pump does not run dry.



(these quotes are all from the "ask lucas" thread)


----------



## NewGrowth (Sep 1, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> NG will get back to me and I will let you know...
> 
> I gave him this link so he may just pop in here...
> 
> He really knows his shit...


What kind of PPM meter is he using? X500 and x700 are just ways to read the meter if he is talking about a truncheon. No conversion just read the scale on the meter and multiply by 500 or 700 depending on the scale you are reading.

It's just a way to convert an EC to PPM, they are both the same measurement though.

Does that answer your question?


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> What kind of PPM meter is he using? X500 and x700 are just ways to read the meter if he is talking about a truncheon. No conversion just read the scale on the meter and multiply by 500 or 700 depending on the scale you are reading.
> 
> It's just a way to convert an EC to PPM, they are both the same measurement though.
> 
> Does that answer your question?


yes i'm using a trucheon, i'm just wondering which scale i should be reading, X500 or X700

thanks


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 2, 2009)

> You can use any res size, as long as TDS does not get too high, and pH does not get too low.


I totally agree...

but the bigger the res.. the more stable it is...

...

a really smalle res requires adjustments everyday... a really big one once a week...

but he is right... you could get by with the exact amount of water required to flood your tray... but what a pain in the ass...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

yeah you would have to constantly monitor it lol


----------



## NewGrowth (Sep 2, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> yes i'm using a trucheon, i'm just wondering which scale i should be reading, X500 or X700
> 
> thanks


It does not matter which scale you read the final PPM reading will come out the same. I prefer the 500 scale because I hardly ever run really high PPM to have to read the 700 scale.


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 2, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> It does not matter which scale you read the final PPM reading will come out the same. I prefer the 500 scale because I hardly ever run really high PPM to have to read the 700 scale.



I am sooo confused it's not even funny...

good thing I just read the ppm on mine...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> It does not matter which scale you read the final PPM reading will come out the same. I prefer the 500 scale because I hardly ever run really high PPM to have to read the 700 scale.


i'm confused... so basically i should only be looking at everything to the right of the lights?


----------



## NewGrowth (Sep 2, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> i'm confused... so basically i should only be looking at everything to the right of the lights?


I does not really matter, they both give you the same answer its just up to you if you want to read in EC or PPM. Either PPM scale will give you the same PPM number.

It might be easier to simplify it and just take your readings in EC. Do you have a picture of your meter, is it the bluelab?


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

yes its a bluelab, it was 110 bucks! so it should last a long ass time! 

but they aren't the same for example if the EC is 2.0 the ECx500 reads 1000 PPM and the ECx700 side reads 1400 PPM


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

http://www.getbluelab.com/shop/Bluelab+Truncheon%AE+Meter.html


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 2, 2009)




----------



## NewGrowth (Sep 2, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> yes its a bluelab, it was 110 bucks! so it should last a long ass time!
> 
> but they aren't the same for example if the EC is 2.0 the ECx500 reads 1000 PPM and the ECx700 side reads 1400 PPM


Yeah I got yah now, those bluelabs are great! I had one for years but lost it 

I once dropped mine in my reservoir and did not realize until 2 weeks later, it was still floating around in the tank and worked fine. Plus no calibration rocks.

I see what you mean, they come up with different PPM readings because they scale the measurement differently. It is in actually the same reading but on a different scale kind of like metric vs standard measurement.

The US usually uses the TDS scale (Total Dissolved Solids) that would be the X500 on your bluelab.

The UK uses another scale, I'm not sure what is called like I said i don't use it. If you want to use the UK scale then read in X700.

It does not matter what scale you use as long as you use the same scale constantly.

That is why I said you can just use EC to simplify things.


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

ahh i get ya now. yeah its seems like a great meter, i've already dropped it in the tank once.

i'm gonna stick with TDS i think its what most people are using.


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


>



hahhaa WOW


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

OK so this isn't working. i need a new flood tray. it won't drain completely and there is a ton of water seeping through the plastic. 

what do i do..... 

gypsy i see you have tons of different flood containers, how do you get them to drain completely? what kind of drain and fill fittings do you use?


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 2, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> OK so this isn't working. i need a new flood tray. it won't drain completely and there is a ton of water seeping through the plastic.
> 
> what do i do.....


That is the problem with DIY...

I have replaced EVERY tray of mine with a LEGIT Botanicare flood drain tray...

Nothing else is PURPOSE BUILT to drain properly...









> gypsy i see you have tons of different flood containers, how do you get them to drain completely?


I didn't... it's why I got rid of them...

I got away with it by covering the pots... in fact covering the tray..

and 

using copious amounts of h2o2...





> what kind of drain and fill fittings do you use?


I have these...







and these...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

damn well i'm gonna have to figure something out


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 2, 2009)

I am sorry it didn't work out...

If you had your res directly under the tray, you could drill some small holes on the tray...

And it would just drip back...

But you got the metal tray...

Damn Bro... sorry...

But I tell you what... after you get everything SET... you will never have to buy this shit again...

That's the beauty of getting the right stuff...

I know money is tight... but it's an investment...

it's NOT like buying $500 worth of pot...

It will all pay for itself rather quickly..


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 2, 2009)

Try a different piece of plastic...

Maybe a thicker one...

double it up?

...

2 years from now you will have a real tray there... might as well get a headstart eh?!?!?!..

...

Just be patient... save up... 

and buy the LAST SHIT YOU WILL EVER NEED...

Then you are done... after the first run.. you just grow...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

its not that the plastic is too thin, it leaks where i cut the holes for the fittings. 

i hope it doesn't take 2 years till i get a real tray...

how do they drain completely? i'm sure there still has to be some standing water in the bottom somewhere..

can you post some pics of your fill and drain setups??


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 2, 2009)

You are right... and you are wrong...

if you support the properly (no bowing center) and you give it the SLIGHTEST advantage...

ALL the water WILL drain out...

The fill and drain fittings are on a pre-built low spot on the tray... So the little puddle that stays is confined to an area about 2" x 4"...

My trays actually DRY OUT between floods...

..

but you can totally fuck it up and have standing water... sure...

But even then.. the water stays in the channels below... and the pots are kept out of the water..

Unless you put the tray at an extreme angle.... but then.. you're asking for it..lol..

I'll go get you a pic...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

ohh k so what if i used a plastic bin, and heated up the bottom to make a low spot for the drain?


i got another question so my timer is set right now to flood every 2 hours for 15 minutes. they are in veg so it does this 24/7. is this right?


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 2, 2009)

here you go...


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 2, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> ohh k so what if i used a plastic bin, and heated up the bottom to make a low spot for the drain?


you totally could...




> i got another question so my timer is set right now to flood every 2 hours for 15 minutes. they are in veg so it does this 24/7. is this right?


They can take it.. but that is a bit much...

I do that with my plants in heavy flower...

I water my moms 4x a day... for 15 minutes... 24/0 photoperiod...

You will get a feel for it...


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

ok thanks for the pics, are the ridges always filled with water?

do you water them 4 times a day over the 24 hour period? so 6 times a day?


----------



## GypsyBush (Sep 2, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> ok thanks for the pics, are the ridges always filled with water?


The channels (low spots) guide the water to THE LOW SPOT on the tray...

So no.. everything drains out...except a very small puddle around the fittings.. but in that 2"x4" area that is lower than every thing else...

And it is just a tiny little bit.. MAYBE 1/60 of an inch... nothing almost... and ONLY THERE..



> do you water them 4 times a day over the 24 hour period?


Yes 4 times a day for 15 min each flood...




> so 6 times a day?


NOPE!

4 times a day..


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

haha i read it wrong, andd i just realized my flood timer is BROKEN. WTF!!


----------



## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

so every 6 hours


i just set my other timer to come on at 6am then 12pm then 6pm and then 12am


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## GypsyBush (Sep 2, 2009)

that is exactly what I did..


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

ok, maybe if i'm lucky the water thats left in my tray will evaporate over 6 hours?


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## NewGrowth (Sep 2, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> I am sorry it didn't work out...
> 
> If you had your res directly under the tray, you could drill some small holes on the tray...
> 
> ...



Not quick enough, I'm still in the hole with my recent purchases. I saw a guy build some flood tables using pond liner and frames he made out of wood. They seemed to work ok.

Like gypsy said though, real ready made flood trays can't be beat.


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

i'm going to get a flood tray eventually, but not now....that ballast was f ing expensive! lol

NG do you have any idea how he sealed the flood and drain fittings?


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## NewGrowth (Sep 2, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> i'm going to get a flood tray eventually, but not now....that ballast was f ing expensive! lol
> 
> NG do you have any idea how he sealed the flood and drain fittings?


An ass ton of silicone  Actually what I'm using right now to seal drains on my shelves on my set-up.


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

haha damn. i'm not sure what to do now


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## GypsyBush (Sep 2, 2009)

I am not a fan of siliconing the fittings in...

I like unscrewing them to clean the tray...

Mine only have the rubber gaskets that came with them... and correct size holes on the tray...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

yeah i definitely don't want to use silicon


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## GypsyBush (Sep 2, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> yeah i definitely don't want to use silicon


Nothing wrong with it if you're trying to seal a leak though...

I don't use it cause my trays don't leak...

And even if they did... the fittings sit RIGHT OVER the res... so.. no worries...

Use the goo if you need Bro...

Make it easy on yourself...

Just make sure the stuff is DRY before flooding again...


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## gimmish (Sep 2, 2009)

How often should you change res. water?


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## GypsyBush (Sep 2, 2009)

every 2 weeks...

you can go 3 if your res is large and stays clean...

but the "norm" is 2 weeks...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

HELL YEAH i got it to work. and good

what i did was use a hammer to pound down the area where the drain/fill is to mimic gypsy's table. 

there is still the slightest bit off pooling where the ripples in the plastic are but it will evaporate hopefully.


the best part is it doesn't leak! kind of.... when its flooded there is the slightest drip from the overflow. but i really don't care, i will just put a paper towel under it. i don't want to mess with it and make it leak more.


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## NewGrowth (Sep 2, 2009)

Nice man looks like it will work


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

it IS working haha


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

man i'm a happy camper now


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## NewGrowth (Sep 2, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> man i'm a happy camper now


Nice, what strains have you got going?


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 2, 2009)

just bagseed. but i did get a clone from a friend of some danks. i have to ask her what strain it is though i've been meaning to do that


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 3, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> just bagseed. but i did get a clone from a friend of some danks. i have to ask her what strain it is though i've been meaning to do that



this is the clone i got


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 13, 2009)

OK so i did my first res change! just finished. it was really easy! but i used way more nutes than i though i was gonna. next time i'll be buying gallons of micro and bloom.


i used the lucas formula.

i put 10 gallons in my res. then i put in 80ml of micro and 160ml of bloom.

that brought me to an ec of 1.8 or 1260ppm


subract 100 for my water and thats 1160ppm. the lucas formula has a goal of 1300ppm. i guess i will need a little more nutes when my plants get real big

my PH is about 5.0. thats fine because it will be drifting up within a couple days.

i haven't decided whether i am going to top off my res with either gallons of pre mixed nutes or gallons of just PH'ed water.

i am leaning towards adding back premixed nutes.


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## GypsyBush (Sep 13, 2009)

Top off with pH'd water bro...

At most with 1/4 strength nutes...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 13, 2009)

i am following the lucas formula exactly, here it is from the man himself-

General Hydroponics Flora Series Feeding Strategy - Lucas Formula 

G-M-B (Grow-Micro-Bloom) 
0-8-16 - For Flowering cycle (12/12) 

The numbers above indicate the number of milliliters (ml) of Flora Grow, Micro or Bloom formulas that I use in one gallon (US Liquid) of nutrients. 

You will notice I dont use any of the Flora &#8220;Grow&#8221; formula, do not need to, the Flora "Micro" provides plenty of Nitrogen. 

There are two ways to work with this formula: 

1. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected water solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. After adding back an amount of water equal to the amount of your reservoir capacity you should change the reservoir and put in fresh solution. 

2. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected 100% strength nutrient solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. Continue to use this nutrient solution without dumping the tank unless the PPM rises above acceptable levels. 

Between vegetative and flowering cycles you should dump your nutrients, then flush (possibly with Clearex) to remove salt buildups, then change to the other feeding program. Always shake your GH nutrient bottles before using them! 

For young plants, just transplanted into the hydro setup, give them 50% strength nutrient mix to prevent overfeeding them while their young. Gradually bring up the mix to full strength as they grow over the next few weeks or so. 

The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water. 

NOTE: The Lucas formula eliminates the need for Epsom salts to correct (Magnesium) Mg deficiencies in most normal feeding programs recommended by manufacturers. Cannabis needs a lot of Magnesium to thrive. 

The Flora Micro is providing the Nitrogen and the Magnesium in the proper balance, thus there is no need for the Grow formula and little or no room under the maximum acceptable ppm limit of 1600 @ 0.7 conversion. 

Calculated EC/TDS levels: 

EC microsiemen: 
0-4-8: 946 µS 
0-5-10: 1184 µS 
0-8-16: 1894 µS 

TDS @ 0.5 conversion: 
0-4-8 = 473 ppm 
0-5-10 = 592 ppm 
0-8-16 = 947 ppm 

TDS @ 0.7 conversion: 
0-4-8 = 663 ppm 
0-5-10 = 829 ppm 
0-8-16 = 1326 ppm 

Addback Calculator - (For Advanced Users) 

Say you were running the 0-8-16 formula, at 0.7 conversion with a 22 gallon res. When you first fill it up, your ppm will be around 1330. 

Now you have been growing for a week, and some of the water has been taken up by the plants, some has evaporated, and now your res is at 947 ppm. You need to get your ppm from 947 to 1330. Here is the equation: 

((target - current) / target) * 8 ml per gallon * res gallons = Flora Micro (ml) double this figure to get Flora Bloom (ml) 

Example: 

((1330 - 947) / 1330) * 8 * 22 
(383 / 1330) * 8 * 22 
0.3 * 8 * 22 = 53 ml Flora Micro 

53 ml Flora Micro, double that and you get 106 ml Flora Bloom. So 53 ml Flora Micro and 106 ml Flora Bloom to add back to your 22 gallon res to get you from 947 to 1330.


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 13, 2009)

first flood with the lucas formula! as you can see i also raised my flood depth a bit.

i did this trying to coax the roots up higher in the pots.

they don't seem to be bothered by the extra depth, i have already done about 5 or 6 floods at this depth


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 13, 2009)

forgot to add the last 3


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## GypsyBush (Sep 13, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> i am following the lucas formula exactly,


Than you shoud follow what Lucas says... EXACTLY...



ForcedInduction said:


> first flood with the lucas formula! as you can see i also raised my flood depth a bit.
> 
> i did this trying to coax the roots up higher in the pots.
> 
> they don't seem to be bothered by the extra depth, i have already done about 5 or 6 floods at this depth


Should be fine as long as you do not have RW or any other highly absorbent medium to get soaked...

If you ever use RW or similar, you should stop the flood 1/2" below the medium...

like this...

 ​


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 13, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Than you shoud follow what Lucas says... EXACTLY...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thats what i'm trying to do! 

which add back method would you use?


adding full strength nutrient solution back and changing the res every grow cycle, 

or adding just PH'ed water and changing the res when you have added back an amount of water equal to your res size.


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 13, 2009)

nope no rockwool or anything, just hydroton and roots


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## GypsyBush (Sep 13, 2009)

ForcedInduction said:


> which add back method would you use?
> 
> 
> adding full strength nutrient solution back and changing the res every grow cycle,
> ...



I do no thing...

I have a HUGE res... that stays stable and plenty full for well over 2 weeks...

I do not top off... ever..



ForcedInduction said:


> nope no rockwool or anything, just hydroton and roots


Perfect...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 13, 2009)

well i mean IF you had to use the lucas formula which method WOULD you use?


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## GypsyBush (Sep 13, 2009)

I don't even know who Lucas is..... much less what he recommends...

But as I said.. I recommend topping off with straight water (ph'd of course)...

AT MAX.. 1/4 strength...

But I already told you this and you didn;t like it...... ...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 13, 2009)

haha ok, well i'll see what happens and make the decision when it comes time to add water.


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 14, 2009)

I am using 0-8-16 GH Lucas in flower and find that my nutrient PPMs are climbing every day as the water evaporates. I have been just adding full strength nutes. How best to reduce this ppm upward creep? 
> Just weaken the nute PPM that I top off with?

yes, to one third of original 0-8-16.. try 0-2-4 in your addback water
This is a strategy that DOES require a TDS meter.

you are using a strategy that seeks to maintain the TDS between 1100 and 1400 ppm on a .7 conversion meter, for the life of the crop. If your TDS goes over 1800, you should water down your nutes.. add only water with no nutes

> Just checking, but what is the maximum PPM my plants can tolerate?

things get ugly above 2100ppm @.7 conversion, which is EC 3000, and also equivalent to 1500ppm on a .5 conversion meter. YOU MUST account for the conversion factor of your meter.


more helpful quotes from the ask lucas thread


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## GypsyBush (Sep 14, 2009)

I just got a BIG res.. fill it and forget it...


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 14, 2009)

i don't have room for a bigger res........


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## Dapps420 (Sep 23, 2009)

GypsyBush said:


> Than you shoud follow what Lucas says... EXACTLY...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hmmm Interesting........ I think that may be a large problem of mine. I think I may be flooding too high up on my rockwool medium. Im flooding to at lest 1/4 to 1/2 way up the rockwool................... And it seems my guys are a bit over watered ... At least it seems that way, Check out my thread there are pics of my plants, and it seems like their leaves are pointing down. Also I have some sort of deficiancy in my solution that is causing the leaves to burn at the tips and turn yellow eventually (check out the pics please ). THANKS for your help folks!


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 23, 2009)

i did read your whole thread. twice actually. what is your tap water like?


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 23, 2009)

i am not using rockwool. i just stick em right in the hydroton. that way i can flood as deep as i want. check out some of my pics ^^^


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## ForcedInduction (Sep 24, 2009)

here are some pics i just took. the stems are really swelling up!!! 

the biggest ones are all 24 days old today.


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