# Week 8 Flower Still SMALL BUDS!!!!



## Hydromantic (Feb 28, 2017)

Hey Guys,

So I am at Day 98 since Germination and 50 days into Flower. My buds are starting to show signs that they are getting close to harvest but the buds are so small! It was my first grow ever but I'm not sure what went wrong. Im thinking it may be that the light was under powered for the grow space. I also want to make sure I am not reading the harvest signs incorrectly.

Set-up:

(4) 5 gal buckets with two air stones in each bucket
(1) 315w CMH
3 x 3 x 7h Grow Tent
PH 5.5-6.0
PPM's currently 850
Air Temp is 70
Using AN nutes, currently Sensi Bloom, b-52 and Over drive
Distilled water

Im wondering if the plants went through a giant stretch and thats why the buds are so small or maybe its just the underpowered wattage, or I am harvesting too early, they also had some chemical burn.... Im at a loss to be honest.

I have been monitoring the Trichomes every day... They are currently 80 percent Cloudy.

I am going to be flushing using Flawless finish

Pictures:


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## GroErr (Feb 28, 2017)

They look great, small buds aren't necessarily bad, mostly genetics driving production/size of the buds/plant. You can have small producers but fire and large producers putting out crap, I always prefer the quality over quantity.

I'd say give them another 7-10 days for a couple of reasons. Trichs still look like a lot of clear in there, some white hairs still showing. Hairs should be turned (brown/redish/curled) and trichs can definitely cloud up some more.

315w CMH in a 3x3 is perfect so don't think the size of buds has much to do with anything but genetics. You can pull a pound with that light, but it has to be the right genetics/pheno.


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## goldberg71b (Feb 28, 2017)

Also 8 weeks is no magic number. Sativas can take 16,20,24 weeks. Indicas Finish faster. Their bud structure is different as well. Many strains are hybrids and they'll have both sativa and indica in them. These strains may have predominance to lean one way or the other. But if you pop enough of them you'll get the spectrum. From more sativa to a combo and then more indica. So what type of seed and where you got it is important. Now if you got a bag seeds from a hybrid there can also be a wider variance than the original seeds. It looks to me like you've got a classic hybrid. Not full indica or sativa but rather a mixture.


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## Anon Emaus (Feb 28, 2017)

Yeah I agree with GroErr, sometimes you just don't get the genetics to produce big buds. I actually have a perfect example in my tent right now, I run a 3x3 tent with a 600w and I'm running 1 strain but from two different seeds and due to the phenotype differences one plant has perfect fat cola cone shaped buds and the other has little nug patches like your plant. Both had the same conditions(they even share a reservoir) with the same light but genetics really takes hold of yield. I've grown a 20oz single plant in my tent and I've grow as low as a single 13 oz plant, just comes down to genetics.

Your 315w is great for a 3x3 tent, so no issue on lighting. And yeah, give it another week or two. I always figure at least 10 weeks, not 8(altho you could be done in 8 if it's the right strain, or it could be 15+ weeks).


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## Hydromantic (Feb 28, 2017)

I should have stated the strains...
Im growing GDP, ChemDawg, Blue dream, and Fire OG

GDP and ChemDawg were grown from seed and seem to be the furthest away from harvest.

Fire OG and Blue Dream were both Clones and are what I though was the cusp of Harvest. I started flushing Fire OG and BlueDream a day and a half ago. I will send updated photos of the trichomes in a few minutes as I just realized that those photos are a week old... LOL


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## Hydromantic (Feb 28, 2017)

Order of pictures:
Fire OG


ChemDawg:
 

GDP:
  

Blue Dream:


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## Hydromantic (Feb 28, 2017)

Sooooo...

Should I continue flushing Fire OG and Blue Dream or put them back on Nutes. Remember I am doing DWC so it isn't as long of a flush time...


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## Hydromantic (Feb 28, 2017)

I should also mention that it is has 50 days since I switched to 12/12 NOT since they fully made the transition


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## Hydromantic (Feb 28, 2017)

GroErr said:


> They look great, small buds aren't necessarily bad, mostly genetics driving production/size of the buds/plant. You can have small producers but fire and large producers putting out crap, I always prefer the quality over quantity.
> 
> I'd say give them another 7-10 days for a couple of reasons. Trichs still look like a lot of clear in there, some white hairs still showing. Hairs should be turned (brown/redish/curled) and trichs can definitely cloud up some more.
> 
> 315w CMH in a 3x3 is perfect so don't think the size of buds has much to do with anything but genetics. You can pull a pound with that light, but it has to be the right genetics/pheno.



I forgot to mention the above information...

Glad to hear that I don't need to invest in another light though!


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## Hydromantic (Feb 28, 2017)

goldberg71b said:


> Also 8 weeks is no magic number. Sativas can take 16,20,24 weeks. Indicas Finish faster. Their bud structure is different as well. Many strains are hybrids and they'll have both sativa and indica in them. These strains may have predominance to lean one way or the other. But if you pop enough of them you'll get the spectrum. From more sativa to a combo and then more indica. So what type of seed and where you got it is important. Now if you got a bag seeds from a hybrid there can also be a wider variance than the original seeds. It looks to me like you've got a classic hybrid. Not full indica or sativa but rather a mixture.



I ended up adding more information above...

Thanks for the response!


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## Hydromantic (Feb 28, 2017)

Anon Emaus said:


> Yeah I agree with GroErr, sometimes you just don't get the genetics to produce big buds. I actually have a perfect example in my tent right now, I run a 3x3 tent with a 600w and I'm running 1 strain but from two different seeds and due to the phenotype differences one plant has perfect fat cola cone shaped buds and the other has little nug patches like your plant. Both had the same conditions(they even share a reservoir) with the same light but genetics really takes hold of yield. I've grown a 20oz single plant in my tent and I've grow as low as a single 13 oz plant, just comes down to genetics.
> 
> Your 315w is great for a 3x3 tent, so no issue on lighting. And yeah, give it another week or two. I always figure at least 10 weeks, not 8(altho you could be done in 8 if it's the right strain, or it could be 15+ weeks).



Thanks for the input...l forgot to mention a few things that I added higher up in the chain.

Thanks!!!


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## Anon Emaus (Feb 28, 2017)

Hydromantic said:


> Sooooo...
> 
> Should I continue flushing Fire OG and Blue Dream or put them back on Nutes. Remember I am doing DWC so it isn't as long of a flush time...


Keep nutes going. No need to flush in DWC(plenty of people will argue against that though) because there is no salt build up in your medium due to your medium(water) being replaced often. Flushing will also starve your plants of nutrients they require at a critical point in their life, again soil is another story. If you do wish to flush I'd suggest waiting until you figure out the whole growing cycle and have a couple harvests under your belt so you know when you actually want to flush.

BTW, towards the end of your plants life you should be reducing the amounts of nutrients you're providing.


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## Hydromantic (Feb 28, 2017)

Wouldn't you still need to flush at the end of their life cycle to clear all nutrients from the buds? 

Also, with the updated photos, do you think fire of and blue dream are close to harvest?


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## Hydromantic (Feb 28, 2017)

Anon Emaus said:


> Keep nutes going. No need to flush in DWC(plenty of people will argue against that though) because there is no salt build up in your medium due to your medium(water) being replaced often. Flushing will also starve your plants of nutrients they require at a critical point in their life, again soil is another story. If you do wish to flush I'd suggest waiting until you figure out the whole growing cycle and have a couple harvests under your belt so you know when you actually want to flush.
> 
> BTW, towards the end of your plants life you should be reducing the amounts of nutrients you're providing.


i keep forgetting to send my messages as reply.... N00B


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## OldMedUser (Mar 1, 2017)

With that dark green foliage and the evidence of nute burn I'd say the nitrogen has been way too high. That's why I went out and bought the AN 3 - part again. I was using Sensi for veg and Connie for flower and tho you can lower the overall ppm by using less of them you can't alter the NPK ratio without throwing everything else off balance. With the 3 - part you can run as Lucas formula after the stretch by dropping the Grow altogether and using half as much Micro as Bloom. Too much N inhibits flowering after the stretch and I pretty sure that had something to do with the smaller buds.

I also use Big Bud, Bud Ignitor, Rhino Skin and any old CalMag in small doses.

I like harvesting when the trichs are about 50/50, clear/cloudy and 90% or more of the hairs have gone red.


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## OldMedUser (Mar 1, 2017)

Anon Emaus said:


> I've grown a 20oz single plant in my tent and I've grow as low as a single 13 oz plant, just comes down to genetics.


20oz dry wt in a 3x3 tent? I'll take some of those seeds or the secret formula please and thank you very much. Even 13oz stretches the lines of credibility.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Mar 1, 2017)

I agree with @GroErr that the pic with the whole top with white hairs still has a good week to 10 days but I would only give fresh water to those plants for the last week. They have been way overfed and will get what they need from the medium and leaves now. 

Nutrients don't "flush" out of buds. But they may taste harsh from the extra chlorophyll. And a good long dry and cure will go a long way to mellow it back out. 

I like to harvest my plants with the leaves a nice medium healthy to lighter green. Sometimes easier said than done.


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## Alaric (Mar 1, 2017)

Hydromantic said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> So I am at Day 98 since Germination and 50 days into Flower. My buds are starting to show signs that they are getting close to harvest but the buds are so small! It was my first grow ever but I'm not sure what went wrong. Im thinking it may be that the light was under powered for the grow space. I also want to make sure I am not reading the harvest signs incorrectly.
> 
> ...


First grow ever-----.

My first thought about "chemical burn" on the leaf tips and edges----nutes too strong----but 850 ppm---what conversion factor?

Suggestion:

Take sample buds at different stages of cloudy-----and find out for yourself which one you enjoy more.

I haven't ever run LED lights----but 315 watts 0f lighting sounds weak to me compared to a 600 watt hps---which is good for a 3 X 3 canopy. That is my guess to the reason for smaller buds----and you can't ever discount genetics.

As for flushing-----I run 1000 ppm (.7) from start to end for flowering and veg (after roots well established).

Several pics in my journal if interested.

A~~~


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## Hydromantic (Mar 1, 2017)

Alaric said:


> First grow ever-----.
> 
> My first thought about "chemical burn" on the leaf tips and edges----nutes too strong----but 850 ppm---what conversion factor?
> 
> ...


Im not converting from E.C. to PPM I am using a TDS meter that displays PPM's. I had the plants sitting around 980 PPM for a week or so while I was out of town, when i got back I checked the PPM's and had seen that they climbed to 1300 because they were drinking more water than Nutes... I ended up dropping down to 800 and they seemed to be much happier there. I have been contimplating upgrading to a 600w CMH for my future grows...

I think next time around I am going to do a single plant scrOG in the 3x3 so I can focus on just one plant to really try and dial her in.

What are your thoughts on the updated images I posted? Close to harvest? I feel like given the smaller bud size its a little harder to determine...

Might just be me..


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## goldberg71b (Mar 1, 2017)

Hydromantic said:


> Im not converting from E.C. to PPM I am using a TDS meter that displays PPM's. I had the plants sitting around 980 PPM for a week or so while I was out of town, when i got back I checked the PPM's and had seen that they climbed to 1300 because they were drinking more water than Nutes... I ended up dropping down to 800 and they seemed to be much happier there. I have been contimplating upgrading to a 600w CMH for my future grows...
> 
> I think next time around I am going to do a single plant scrOG in the 3x3 so I can focus on just one plant to really try and dial her in.
> 
> ...


PPM meters have 2 settings 500 and 700. The same number on both is 2 totally different things.


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## Growdict (Mar 1, 2017)

goldberg71b said:


> PPM meters have 2 settings 500 and 700. The same number on both is 2 totally different things.


i have never gotten a good answer to this common question. my meter is tds ez from HM digital, it doesnt list a "conversion factor"


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## Hydromantic (Mar 1, 2017)

Growdict said:


> i have never gotten a good answer to this common question. my meter is tds ez from HM digital, it doesnt list a "conversion factor"


I have the same one! Not sure either... can anyone answer that for us?

Mine is the HM Digital Aquapro


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## OldMedUser (Mar 1, 2017)

I have a 20 yo Hanna ppm pen that still works great. It does tend to wander off so a quick dip in calibration sol'n keeps it on track. Buy the ready made sol'n tho as the powdered stuff that comes with some pens can be quite a bit off it's stated ppm. This chart comes in handy when discussing ppm with people that use different types or EC. Just the right size to print out.


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## Hydromantic (Mar 1, 2017)

goldberg71b said:


> PPM meters have 2 settings 500 and 700. The same number on both is 2 totally different things.


When I looked it up it shows the conversion from E.C. To TDS to be NaCl (avg. 0.5)


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## Anon Emaus (Mar 1, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> 20oz dry wt in a 3x3 tent? I'll take some of those seeds or the secret formula please and thank you very much. Even 13oz stretches the lines of credibility.


Click the link in my sig and scroll thru and see yourself. It's under a 600w light, so I better be pulling at least 13oz.

20oz was Original Amnesia, took 15 weeks to flower so kinda sucked I had to wait so long. 
13oz is easy, if i get less than that I'm doing something wrong. LSD pulled that.
Another one in my post is 15oz, ran two strains that time. 9oz Blue Mystic and 6oz Great White Shark.

Feel free to ask any questions in my grow journal thread.


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## Hydromantic (Mar 1, 2017)

OldMedUser said:


> View attachment 3897377
> 
> I have a 20 yo Hanna ppm pen that still works great. It does tend to wander off so a quick dip in calibration sol'n keeps it on track. Buy the ready made sol'n tho as the powdered stuff that comes with some pens can be quite a bit off it's stated ppm. This chart comes in handy when discussing ppm with people that use different types or EC. Just the right size to print out.


Thanks for the post! I am probably due for a recalibration. I just happen to have some calibration liquid laying around...


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## OldMedUser (Mar 1, 2017)

Hydromantic said:


> I have the same one! Not sure either... can anyone answer that for us?
> 
> Mine is the HM Digital Aquapro


I looked yours up and it uses the 0.5 conversion so you would use the Hanna #s for your readings.

*SPECIFICATIONS*
*TDS Range:* 0-5000 ppm (mg/L) 
*Temperature Range:* 0-80 °C; 32-176 °F 
*Resolution:* 1 ppm
*Temperature Resolution:* 0.1 °C/F 
*Accuracy:* +/- 2%
*EC-to-TDS Conversion Factor:* NaCl (avg. 0.5) 
*Calibration:* Digital calibration by push button. 
*Housing:* Water-resistant
*Power source:* 1 x 3V button cell (included) (model CR2032)
*Dimensions:* 15 x 2.8 x 1.3 cm (5.9 x 1.1 x .5 inches) 
*Weight:* 42.5 g (1.5 oz)


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## Hydromantic (Mar 1, 2017)

Anon Emaus said:


> Click the link in my sig and scroll thru and see yourself. It's under a 600w light, so I better be pulling at least 13oz.
> 
> 20oz was Original Amnesia, took 15 weeks to flower so kinda sucked I had to wait so long.
> 13oz is easy, if i get less than that I'm doing something wrong. LSD pulled that.
> ...


I read through your scrOG journal... some serious buds in that one! I was thinking about running a DWC scrOG for my next grow... maybe just leaving one plant to fill the 3X3 tent. Also let's me focus my energy on one plant instead of juggling 4 different buckets


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## OldMedUser (Mar 1, 2017)

Growdict said:


> i have never gotten a good answer to this common question. my meter is tds ez from HM digital, it doesnt list a "conversion factor"


I actually have that same one I bought for making colloidal silver as it has 1ppm resolution and my old Hanna is 10ppm increments. Seems like a good pen and has kept it's calibration dead on since I got it. I diluted 1000ppm calibration sol'n down to 20ppm and it reads 19 in that so it's close enough.

It uses the same 0.5 conversion as the Hanna.


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## Anon Emaus (Mar 1, 2017)

Hydromantic said:


> I read through your scrOG journal... some serious buds in that one! I was thinking about running a DWC scrOG for my next grow... maybe just leaving one plant to fill the 3X3 tent. Also let's me focus my energy on one plant instead of juggling 4 different buckets


Yeah def a good way to go, especially to learn everything and dial shit in. Yeah juggling all those buckets sucks, that's why I went to just a single res for my multi plant grows. I'd say do a solid 6 week veg with a single plant and scrog that girl up and you'll be real happy with the end result. I actually have a buddy on here that grows the same style as me but he used to use a 400w and now just got a 315w cmh. He just finished his first 315w grow and pulled 10oz, he had a lot of PH issues though because he was away on work a lot so it wasn't the best grow, so you could def do better than 10oz, strain dependent of course.


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## goldberg71b (Mar 1, 2017)

Growdict said:


> i have never gotten a good answer to this common question. my meter is tds ez from HM digital, it doesnt list a "conversion factor"


I've got a blulab combo meter. It's about 5 years old. I never read the instructions or looked for a conversation factor. My motto is the kiss method (Keep It Simple Stupid). I can switch back and forth between EC/500 scale/700 scale. So I can't help you. Somewhere on the box or paperwork should CLEARLY state which scale your meter is on. I'd hope anyway! That said I haven't run across anything I've used that needed to be measured in anything but 500 scale. So if I had to guess I'd say your meter is lower end than mine and only reads in 500. But that's a guess.


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## MichiganMedGrower (Mar 1, 2017)

Don't forget that the nute companies may use either conversion factor on their directions. 

Botanicare lists ec on their directions but at a 7 conversion instead of 5. Which is strange because in America we use .5 to convert ppms. 

On a water test for example .4 ec is always 200ppm.


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## dro-man80 (Mar 2, 2017)

I feel from the pictures of dark green foliage on page 1 that u suffered some over-fertilization which is a well known plant stressor and just stunts them girls...some bounce back others don't..TBH they def look like a little too much Nitrogen,but def could be 2 much on the girls..I feel based off ur pics and my opinion,that the girls have another 2 to 3 weeks till the chop- block..Did u take any clones?would be nice to run those girls back again,and see for urself how they are better and better every grow..plus those r fire genetics imo,,I use NFTG Herculean Harvest for mid-flower flush and end flush last 2 weeks..works great and like a charm..honestly,,water ph'd does wonders,but something about tht HH that binds to them salts,and uses them up...Just my 2 cents homie,,,hopefully something I said helps,and if not then its still cool to talk some shit about growing Cannabis lol...
much love and peace and keep us posted ,,I am def interested in how things are coming along


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## Niblixdark (Mar 2, 2017)

I have been growing for a long time and can usually get over 3lbs per plant (dry) in RDWC 1000w each light with my genetics. (No Co2) With different genetics I can get vastly different numbers such as (1.58lbs vs 3lbs 3oz). (Real numbers). So my take on yeild is what genetics you use. Light plays an important role as well. As in 30 watts per square foot vs 50w. Finally how you train them and veg times also will effect yields. Then boosters/hormones lastly.


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## Hydromantic (Mar 2, 2017)

dro-man80 said:


> I feel from the pictures of dark green foliage on page 1 that u suffered some over-fertilization which is a well known plant stressor and just stunts them girls...some bounce back others don't..TBH they def look like a little too much Nitrogen,but def could be 2 much on the girls..I feel based off ur pics and my opinion,that the girls have another 2 to 3 weeks till the chop- block..Did u take any clones?would be nice to run those girls back again,and see for urself how they are better and better every grow..plus those r fire genetics imo,,I use NFTG Herculean Harvest for mid-flower flush and end flush last 2 weeks..works great and like a charm..honestly,,water ph'd does wonders,but something about tht HH that binds to them salts,and uses them up...Just my 2 cents homie,,,hopefully something I said helps,and if not then its still cool to talk some shit about growing Cannabis lol...
> much love and peace and keep us posted ,,I am def interested in how things are coming along


Thanks brotha! I appreciated the feedback. I wish I had kept clones those girls. I am gonna be growing just 1 GDP as a scrOG on my next grow... hopefully I can dial it in a little better next run.

Were you basing the 2 to 3 weeks on the first on second set of images I posted?


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## Hydromantic (Mar 2, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> I have been growing for a long time and can usually get over 3lbs per plant (dry) in RDWC 1000w each light with my genetics. (No Co2) With different genetics I can get vastly different numbers such as (1.58lbs vs 3lbs 3oz). (Real numbers). So my take on yeild is what genetics you use. Light plays an important role as well. As in 30 watts per square foot vs 50w. Finally how you train them and veg times also will effect yields. Then boosters/hormones lastly.


Thanks for your your 2 cents. Im still getting my head wrapped around all the different things that go into a solid grow... but I guess thats what your first grow is all about, right?


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## Niblixdark (Mar 2, 2017)

Here are some key notes.

In the flower stage, earlier in the first 2 to 3 weeks run a little "Cal Mag" with your regular fertilizer schedule.

Keep humidity below 40-45% more so in the late flowering period. Important!

Temperatures at night should be over 68

Keep daytime temps under 80

Keep your reservoir water temps at 68 or lower but no less then 60.

Run fans over and under the canopies

String up your branches to ease the weight of the branch to encourage more robust bud development.

Make certain the water level under the potted nets is 2 inches give or take, below the basket.

PH should hover around 5.8 to 6.0 and no less then 5.5 for too long in flowering. 6.3pH in veg.

SM90 to prevent or stop pathogens in the water.

LST HST topping and FIM will dramatically improve yields.

Best of luck my friend !


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## DrGhard (Mar 3, 2017)

i also think something went wrong along the way, probably the time you went away for a week.

the curled up leaves and brown edges show nutrient toxicity, and if this lasted for long time it may have impacted the overall bud production.

overall the buds are not small, considering you could go 2-3 more weeks of flowering easily. i guess plants were quite small as well when you put them into flowering due to space limitations.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 3, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> I have been growing for a long time and can usually get over 3lbs per plant (dry) in RDWC 1000w each light with my genetics. (No Co2) With different genetics I can get vastly different numbers such as (1.58lbs vs 3lbs 3oz). (Real numbers). So my take on yeild is what genetics you use. Light plays an important role as well. As in 30 watts per square foot vs 50w. Finally how you train them and veg times also will effect yields. Then boosters/hormones lastly.


Would love to see a 3 pound plant?


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## Hydromantic (Mar 3, 2017)

DrGhard said:


> i also think something went wrong along the way, probably the time you went away for a week.
> 
> the curled up leaves and brown edges show nutrient toxicity, and if this lasted for long time it may have impacted the overall bud production.
> 
> overall the buds are not small, considering you could go 2-3 more weeks of flowering easily. i guess plants were quite small as well when you put them into flowering due to space limitations.


Yeah,,, I definitely had some nutrient burn along the way. I actually veg'd them for about 6 weeks so it wasn't too short. You live and learn... I'm excited to get the next run going


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## Niblixdark (Mar 4, 2017)

I haven't taken pics in awhile but when the room is back on tonight I'll get some pics snapped for you. Wish I had pics of a crop I did two grows ago that particular grow was super beast. Needless to say I will pop some photos up later on so you guys don't think am full of it lol. This cycle is at week 7 of a 9 but these girls might be done at day 60-65. 9th gen clones.

I DEFINITELY have nothing to prove and I just like to help people at this point in my life as I have gained a boat load of knowledge in the time I have been doing this and I learnt from a really really experienced grower who owns a hydroponics store locally a well, he's from BC originally, great guy !

Heck sometimes I don't believe it myself ! Lol there's nothing magic about it though guys it's just a matter of vegging and training for a long time it's really that simple. (Big roots)


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## growingforfun (Mar 4, 2017)

MichiganMedGrower said:


> I agree with @GroErr that the pic with the whole top with white hairs still has a good week to 10 days but I would only give fresh water to those plants for the last week. They have been way overfed and will get what they need from the medium and leaves now.
> 
> Nutrients don't "flush" out of buds. But they may taste harsh from the extra chlorophyll. And a good long dry and cure will go a long way to mellow it back out.
> 
> I like to harvest my plants with the leaves a nice medium healthy to lighter green. Sometimes easier said than done.



I think he is doing dwc but maybe i missread something. I know that when i used to run dwc you can actually "proove" nutrients are being flushed from the plant by using R.O. (0-1) ppm water and using a ppm meter. After a day the ppm will read around 100 if i remeber my old numbers and around 200 in a few days.

This coupd be missremembered though, because it was several years ago since the soil switch. Found and foul memorys...


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## Budley Doright (Mar 4, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> I haven't taken pics in awhile but when the room is back on tonight I'll get some pics snapped for you. Wish I had pics of a crop I did two grows ago that particular grow was super beast. Needless to say I will pop some photos up later on so you guys don't think am full of it lol. This cycle is at week 7 of a 9 but these girls might be done at day 60-65. 9th gen clones.
> 
> I DEFINITELY have nothing to prove and I just like to help people at this point in my life as I have gained a boat load of knowledge in the time I have been doing this and I learnt from a really really experienced grower who owns a hydroponics store locally a well, he's from BC originally, great guy !
> 
> Heck sometimes I don't believe it myself ! Lol there's nothing magic about it though guys it's just a matter of vegging and training for a long time it's really that simple. (Big roots)


I don't think I've seen a 3lb plant grown indoors that's why I asked to see it, and yes a bit skepticle to be honest lol.


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## Niblixdark (Mar 4, 2017)

Here are some older pics I found


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## Niblixdark (Mar 4, 2017)

Here are some other pics with different strains. I believe photo ending in number 1952 is the 3.3lber. although I can't remember jack lol I asked my buddy for the photos. He takes all the pics to store. I'll take pics of my new ones tonight. Sorry for thread hijack.


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## Niblixdark (Mar 4, 2017)

Here some pics from tonight and I can't tell you the weight obviously but when it's done I will. I do have more pics on buddies PC I will look some other time but he has one of the most beastly ones out of a past grows. I can't fit the whole thing into a pic but you get the idea. Photos are 7th week.


My strains

Not all flowering but anyways.

Blue Dream
White Voodoo
White Cookies
Acapulco Gold


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## Alaric (Mar 4, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> Here some pics from tonight


Are you claiming 3lbs (dry) per 1K in any of your pics?

Granted----you have some decent looking stuff.

A~~~


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## Niblixdark (Mar 4, 2017)

Two grows ago one of my White Voodoo pheno clones yielded 3 lbs 3 oz most of the time I get around 2.5lbs to 2.8 dry almost 3 lbs dry each time! Thanks to Maui wowee genetics in the Voodoo. When I jar it, It takes less jars then any other stain to equal more weight. They are dense and heavy dried.

I am actually trying to reach 4lbs to break a personal record if I could, but who knows, probably need Co2, perhaps someday ! I will find the photo of that gem at my friends house when I can make it over he's computer illiterate lol

I will make a new thread on my next grow to show everyone how I do things. After this grow is over. I am in the middle of building another room atm for a 4k hydro room. A bit more space that I muchly need.

Ps. I edit allot lol


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## growingforfun (Mar 4, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> I have been growing for a long time and can usually get over 3lbs per plant (dry) in RDWC 1000w each light with my genetics. (No Co2) With different genetics I can get vastly different numbers such as (1.58lbs vs 3lbs 3oz). (Real numbers). So my take on yeild is what genetics you use. Light plays an important role as well. As in 30 watts per square foot vs 50w. Finally how you train them and veg times also will effect yields. Then boosters/hormones lastly.


Whats the best watts/sq ft in your opinion, and how far from a 1000watt hps to the canopy?


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## Niblixdark (Mar 4, 2017)

I run 50 watts per every square foot, try too anyways. My lights are 12 inches from tops of plants, on sides, plants in middle get light from both lights a bit further away. I am using cool tube enclosures, no heat issues in my room. All dialed in. No bleaching effects on plant tissues. Just the odd tip burn sometimes from over zealous ppm increments that happen once and awhile. I should note to everyone not every strain can take intense light up close like this White Voodoo can.


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## goldberg71b (Mar 4, 2017)

5x5 for 1000 = 40 watts/sf
4x4 for 600 = 37.5
You can go up to about 50 watts in my opinion but you have to be able to cool it! If you get to hot the extra is doing more harm than good. I've always found the temperature to be my limiting factor. Unless it's below 40 degrees outside. I'm doing some cooling! (every area I have has 2 lights minimum)


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## Niblixdark (Mar 4, 2017)

goldberg71b said:


> 5x5 for 1000 = 40 watts/sf
> 4x4 for 600 = 37.5
> You can go up to about 50 watts in my opinion but you have to be able to cool it! If you get to hot the extra is doing more harm than good. I've always found the temperature to be my limiting factor. Unless it's below 40 degrees outside. I'm doing some cooling! (every area I have has 2 lights minimum)


It's a bit easier to control for me when its winter for sure. Summer time it's AC from the central air.


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## goldberg71b (Mar 4, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> It's a bit easier to control for me when its winter for sure. Summer time it's AC from the central air.


I hear ya. But you still need fresh air. From end of June to mid September I tone it down. I barely use the heater it's a great perk! AC heats the basement and it rises. I can crack windows for fresh air and the upstairs areas provide the rest. As great as that is everything works against cooling. It all works out. I keep 2 light for flower. And 1 light for can't lose moms. Then everything else is in cuttings under a T5. I ran at 100% one summer. To many times my AC couldn't keep up. So I had to turn the lights down at times. It didn't help we had a multi week heat wave.


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## Niblixdark (Mar 4, 2017)

goldberg71b said:


> I hear ya. But you still need fresh air. From end of June to mid September I tone it down. I barely use the heater it's a great perk! AC heats the basement and it rises. I can crack windows for fresh air and the upstairs areas provide the rest. As great as that is everything works against cooling. It all works out. I keep 2 light for flower. And 1 light for can't lose moms. Then everything else is in cuttings under a T5. I ran at 100% one summer. To many times my AC couldn't keep up. So I had to turn the lights down at times. It didn't help we had a multi week heat wave.


Sounds very similar to my setup except I use a 400mh for vegging or a 1000w MH for bigger girls. My AC is outside my house and does a good job at cooling. Fresh air that comes in is filtered by a carbon filter and another intake that has a 120mm fan on other side of room. Both ends of the room have intakes. Definitely helps with water temps too but not so much the electrical bill lol


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## Niblixdark (Mar 4, 2017)

Here is an idea for everyone if you struggle with water temps in the summer.

This keeps my res always under 70 always mostly 65 to 68. Take your basic thermal cooler that uses a 60w electric pelt and cut out a square in your res and install this using a two part epoxy or a strong epoxy putty.


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## Alaric (Mar 5, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> Two grows ago one of my White Voodoo pheno clones yielded 3 lbs 3 oz most of the time I get around 2.5lbs to 2.8 dry almost 3 lbs dry each time! Thanks to Maui wowee genetics in the Voodoo. When I jar it, It takes less jars then any other stain to equal more weight. They are dense and heavy dried.
> 
> I am actually trying to reach 4lbs to break a personal record if I could, but who knows, probably need Co2, perhaps someday ! I will find the photo of that gem at my friends house when I can make it over he's computer illiterate lol
> 
> ...


This is why its difficult for me to believe those yields from your pics (hope I'm wrong).

 

  

   

Two 10' x 4' sections---each under three 1000w hps air cooled lights on a mover.

Yield was 24 zips per 1K-----now looking at those canopy pics-----to yield 3 lbs per 1K would be double the density in the same space.

Running 75 watts per square foot-----push-pull blowers for cooling. Lights are 16" above tippy tops supplying 10,000 foot candles (full sunlight intensity). 

That is why I'm skeptical it can be done.

Hope you will document the steps you take for your next grow.

Stay safe,

A~~~


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## Budley Doright (Mar 5, 2017)

Yes Nib please start a thread showing what your doing. I would have to agree with Alaric that it doesn't look like any 3lb plants in there but its pics so they could be deceiving . Don't want to take away from this thread though.


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## Niblixdark (Mar 5, 2017)

Looks really well done Alaric ! Impressive
Nice setup too ! I wouldn't doubt about being skeptical as well ! Of course anyone would be on the Internet. But I have no reason to bullshit because I love growing and helping others. But I will start my own thread on the next grow. Happy growing !

And yes photos never do justice as what you can visually see is always much differently precieved through a camera. Guess the only way to prove it would be whitnesses like my two friends and girlfriend but I am not going that far lmao

It also seems to me you are pretty experienced and it shows. Your definitely on a whole different level of growing experience !


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## Budley Doright (Mar 5, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> Here is an idea for everyone if you struggle with water temps in the summer.
> 
> This keeps my res always under 70 always mostly 65 to 68. Take your basic thermal cooler that uses a 60w electric pelt and cut out a square in your res and install this using a two part epoxy or a strong epoxy putty.


How big is the res? I've heard they don't work well and a 60w is only 17 btu's. Very small amount of cooling unless it's a very small res. I would think. I'm in the process of turning a water cooler into a res cooler but still not expecting much, just curious to see if it does much.


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## Niblixdark (Mar 5, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> How big is the res? I've heard they don't work well and a 60w is only 17 btu's. Very small amount of cooling unless it's a very small res. I would think. I'm in the process of turning a water cooler into a res cooler but still not expecting much, just curious to see if it does much.


YES you are correct it's small and will NOT chill the water like a professional chiller but it works just enough to keep the water at the correct temperature in the summer if you have cooling problems. Not major heat just a bit excessive water temps over 70. I run 17 gallons.

It does work though ! I guess if you wanted you could install 2 lol

If you go on ebay you can buy these just like this instead of buying a thermal cooler and ripping it apart. You can buy 40w 60w 100w 120w 180w or more. $25 to $80. Beats paying $250 to $500 for a pro grade chiller.


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## Budley Doright (Mar 5, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> YES you are correct it's small and will NOT chill the water like a professional chiller but it works just enough to keep the water at the correct temperature in the summer if you have cooling problems. Not major heat just a bit excessive water temps over 70. I run 17 gallons.
> 
> It does work though ! I guess if you wanted you could install 2 lol


I'll try the water cooler first and see what that does. I run a passive system now with about 200' of copper tube buried and filled with glycol but come summer it don't do shit lol. Good to know about the Pelletier though .


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## Gaz29 (Mar 5, 2017)

Hydromantic said:


> Thanks brotha! I appreciated the feedback. I wish I had kept clones those girls. I am gonna be growing just 1 GDP as a scrOG on my next grow... hopefully I can dial it in a little better next run.
> 
> Were you basing the 2 to 3 weeks on the first on second set of images I posted?


Re-veg them after harvest.. just leave sum bud and leaves n feed sum grow nutes then stick them under lights till new shoots pop outta bud sites. Take you a while, but if strains are worth it then re-veg.! Good luck and happy growing 
Gaz


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 5, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> Here are some other pics with different strains. I believe photo ending in number 1952 is the 3.3lber. although I can't remember jack lol I asked my buddy for the photos. He takes all the pics to store. I'll take pics of my new ones tonight. Sorry for thread hijack.


Wow


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## Alaric (Mar 5, 2017)

Hey Budley,

I think(?) you mentioned using 6" square pvc.

If so-----can you say where you found it?------I've been looking for it.

IMO, those 5" fence posts (GH aeroflow size) are too small for large plants.

Wish I could find 6" wide x about 12"-16" deep.

A~~~


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 5, 2017)

Alaric said:


> Hey Budley,
> 
> I think(?) you mentioned using 6" square pvc.
> 
> ...


Try a fencing store. I have bought 8 inch square pvc fence post for fences


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## Alaric (Mar 5, 2017)

Michiganjesse said:


> Try a fencing store. I have bought 8 inch square pvc fence post for fences


Thank you Michigan------what lengths?

A~~~


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## Michiganjesse (Mar 5, 2017)

Alaric said:


> Thank you Michigan------what lengths?
> 
> A~~~


I have bought 12ft there are so many brands and i don't know one off hand but i can ask this week at one of my suppliers


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## Budley Doright (Mar 5, 2017)

Alaric said:


> Hey Budley,
> 
> I think(?) you mentioned using 6" square pvc.
> 
> ...


Home Depot I believe or Rona. The big issue was it was 6" outside dia. Drilling the holes were tricky, there out on my scrap pile so I'll take exact measurements latter when it warms up, it's - fuckin 15 out there lol. I was thinking of using this stuff as the top (if laid horizontal) would be removable to access root zone if needed, still small though.


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## dro-man80 (Mar 5, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> Here is an idea for everyone if you struggle with water temps in the summer.
> 
> This keeps my res always under 70 always mostly 65 to 68. Take your basic thermal cooler that uses a 60w electric pelt and cut out a square in your res and install this using a two part epoxy or a strong epoxy putty.


where would i find one of those,,never even knew tht type of thing existed,,but very cool and smart//can u direct me on where to find tht and what exactly is it called? thanx bro


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## Niblixdark (Mar 5, 2017)

http://m.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=peltier+cooler+fan&isNewKw=1&mfs=GOCLK&acimp=0&_trksid=p2053742.m2428.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xpeltier+cooler+fan&sqp=peltier+cooler+fan


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## Niblixdark (Mar 5, 2017)

This looks promising

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Thermoelectric-Peltier-Refrigeration-Cooling-System-Kit-Cooler-Double-Fan-Hot-/252598647993?nav=SEARCH

Just take off the fans on the cooling side and take out wires and seal it. That one is 120w. Heck I might even get one lol


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## Budley Doright (Mar 5, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> YES you are correct it's small and will NOT chill the water like a professional chiller but it works just enough to keep the water at the correct temperature in the summer if you have cooling problems. Not major heat just a bit excessive water temps over 70. I run 17 gallons.
> 
> It does work though ! I guess if you wanted you could install 2 lol
> 
> If you go on ebay you can buy these just like this instead of buying a thermal cooler and ripping it apart. You can buy 40w 60w 100w 120w 180w or more. $25 to $80. Beats paying $250 to $500 for a pro grade chiller.


I was actually going to mention that as opposed to cutting them out . Or use the cooler and cycle the water through it. I have a slightly different issue right now, my res is frozen solid, turn the heater off last week when it went up to 50, now it's 5f here lol,


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## Niblixdark (Mar 5, 2017)

Budley Doright said:


> I was actually going to mention that as opposed to cutting them out . Or use the cooler and cycle the water through it. I have a slightly different issue right now, my res is frozen solid, turn the heater off last week when it went up to 50, now it's 5f here lol,


Ever maybe consider a heat mat for aquariums at a pet store kinda like a shatter heat mat for the purge container?


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## Budley Doright (Mar 5, 2017)

Niblixdark said:


> Ever maybe consider a heat mat for aquariums at a pet store kinda like a shatter heat mat for the purge container?


LOL it's gonna take turning the heat back on, I was just getting ready for a new run and hadn't cleaned the water out yet ..... lazy .


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## Niblixdark (Mar 6, 2017)

I found one of the pics from a further away standpoint of view.

This plant was the 3lbs 3oz er, swear to god! lol. Each branch was like a smaller plant. My buddy went through all the photos and we believe this is the one. He took a snapshot of the computer screen so I'll have to go get the original photo it would be more clear to see. It was 6ft wide !


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