# Northern Lights X BB auto & Speed Devil auto



## Cloudz2600 (May 1, 2012)

So heres my setup:
5x5 walk in closet
1 - 42w 6500k CFL(2800 lumens)
4 - 26w 2700k CFL(1750 lumens)
2  10.5 Light Clamps (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Bayco-10.5-Brooder-Clamp-Light/14003468)
2  Y-splitters and extenders
1  Old fan I borrowed from my dormmate
Jacks Dynamic Duo
Fox farm ocean forest
2  1.5 gallon pots.
I have a 30 gallon Sterlite tub that I *can* use, but seeing as space isnt an issue I might not use it. The entire room isnt dedicated to growing, I actually do use it as a closet and I dont really have the tools to be able to hang lights every which way. That being said this is going to be a 2 plant grow. My first grow I used bag seed and they ended up getting to a decent size, but when I sexed them they turned out to be both male. 
So on 4/20 I ordered Northern Lights x Big Bud auto and Speed Devil auto and got all the other specials (UFO, barneys freebies) that came with the order. 
Few questions before I start:
With autoflowers usually finishing veg in 3 weeks and FFOF having enough nutes for the first 3 weeks should I just use the bloom nutes at ½ strength after 3 weeks has passed? First time using nutes.
Will 1 6500k CFL be good enough? My other 6500k I was using blew and I didnt want to buy another if I didnt have to.

TL;DR - first post and second grow.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 2, 2012)

Day 1: Last night I germinated the seeds in thermal cups I had and this morning I saw that the seeds had sunk to the bottom. Put both seeds in styrofoam cups I had cut in half.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 3, 2012)

Day 2: Nothing yet, I saw the tap roots when I put the seeds in, so I guess it's just a matter of waiting.
I read somewhere that seedlings like more humidity so I cut out some clear plastic bags I had(couldn't find my zip-lock for the life of me) and covered the plastic cups


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## Cloudz2600 (May 4, 2012)

Day 3: So I woke and got a nice surprise when I checked on the plants. Sadly the Speed Devil hasn't sprouted, but it's only been a few days.
In the event the speed devil doesn't pop I'll try growing the Blue Mammoth since that's supposed to be a new strain or w/e.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 4, 2012)

Minor update, I was just using 3 lights on top of the sterlite tub in my room. Today I finally got all my stuff unpacked and moved the setup into my closet. Yes, i know the qualms about foil. If the grow goes pretty well I'll replace it with Mylar. While I was unpacking my second 42w 6500k CFL broke apparently. So tomorrow I'm going to the store to pick up 2 of em. Also the speed rider still hasn't popped and I'm thinking what I saw may not of been the taproot. So as promised I started germinated the Blue Mammoth. This time I'll wait till I see a taproot at least 1/2". If the speed devil decides to pop I'll just run a 3 plant grow.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I just happen to be growing mint. Until the cannabis plants get a little larger I don't see any reason to remove the mint just yet.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 5, 2012)

Day 4: Nothing new, NL seedling is a bit bigger, no development on the Speed Devil. I did however, go to my local shop and pick up 2 42w CFLs and got 1 free. So I got 2 6500k and 1 2700k. I want to have 1 26w and 1 42w in each reflector and then have the additional 42w 2700k in the smaller black reflector. It said do not put anything higher than a 60w Incandescent or a 13w CFL. Found that kinda odd since isn't wattage the only reason something would overheat/explode. Would it be ok to use the 42w in that reflector or should I just stick with the 26w I have? Also anyone have experience(good or bad) with Feit CFLs?

EDIT: Any tips on fan placement? In the post above you can see its hanging(it's secure) across from the tub. Is there a better place for it or is the tub just in the way and I should get rid of it? Tbh besides the "reflectitivity" of the foil and only other reason I like using the tub is because it keeps everything in an organized space.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 6, 2012)

Day 5: NL seedling is stretching a little bit. I'll probably transfer it out of the small cup in a few days if it continues at this pace. Kinda disappointed about the "Speed" Devil. I used the towel method on the Blue Mammoth, as opposed to the cup method I used on the NL and SD. I checked it today and the taproot is maybe a cm long(eyeballing it). One more day and I'll put it in a cup. My A/C is having some trouble so maintenance is looking at it. It's about 80 in my room and probably 80-85 in the closet. Having the fan turned on max really does help. I think the tub *may* be getting in the way of good air flow. If this A/C thing doesn't get sorted out pretty soon I'll just ditch it and have the fan blowing from below the plants. Thanks for answering all my questions guys ^_^...oh wait.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 7, 2012)

Day 6: Meh couldn't sleep, got high instead. In my infinite wisdom I decided now would be a good time to plant the Blue Mammoth. The seedling looked decently long, it was at least a cm. Completely forgot to talk pictures of it. Couldn't find a non clear plastic container to use for the seed so I just covered this one with tape. I read on one of the stickies that you should keep the germinated seeds in shade until they develop cotyledons. so I moved my non-sprouted Speed Devil and the Blue Mammoth behind the cover to the tub. Never actually heard about the shade thing past germination, but I'm not exactly a pro at this lol. I guess I'll add an updated pic of the Northern Lights too.

Oh also, I was looking around some lighting threads and I thought up a way I can use 1 more light. As of right now I'm just using it for my mint, but when the plants start taking off I'll obviously be using it for that. So instead of the 134 actual watts if need be I could go up to 204w. Not sure if you add lumens or not, but if you do I'll have a on paper maximum of 13,270 lumens ^_^ I'm actually going to call Feit today to see if I can get a free bulb for the one that lasted maybe 45 days so I may be looking at even more. Hopefully I'll actually need that many.

Energy usage is a _minor_ concern, but how many watts do timers and surge protectors usually use by themselves?


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## Cloudz2600 (May 8, 2012)

Day 7: Northern Lights is growing a pretty decent pace. Still nothing on the Speed Devil. I'm going to keep it in the cup for one more week just in case it decides to pop. Nothing yet on the Blue Mammoth either, but it's only been a day(that sounds familiar). Looking at adding some co2 via the yeast method, only thing I need to buy is the actual yeast. I'll probably wait until at least the Blue Mammoth pops before I do that though. Seems funny that the most trouble I have is getting the seeds to properly germinate, last grow I didn't even germ the seeds and they all came out. Oh the A/C was fixed yesterday so all the temp has dropped about 7-8 degrees putting it around 75-80 now. I don't have an actual thermometer in the closet so I'm just adding 5-6 degrees to the temp outside it. Having trouble uploading a picture so I'll do it later today.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 8, 2012)

1 hour from Day 8: Good news! The Blue Mammoth showed her pretty little head in only two days.  I went out and got some yeast like I planned and set up the extra co2 in a ginger ale bottle I had just finished the day before. Hopefully the holes I made with a tack aren't too small or I didn't make too many. As to how much this will help idk, but it can't hurt. I took the domes off the Northern Lights and Blue Mammoth.

EDIT: Found 1 more 1.36L bottle so I made another canister.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 10, 2012)

Day 9: I'm on last dealer bought bowl until this grow finishes lol. I added 1 more co2 canister. Need to get a temp gauge, I keep the door closed most of the day and it feels like it 78-80 degrees in there. I typically only open the door 2-3 times a day since I added the extra co2. Looks like the Speed Devil never did make it. Not such a big deal, selected it because it put me a 31 euro which was enough for the 420 event. Northern Lights sprouted its 2nd set of true leaves and the Blue Mammoth just sprouted its first set of true leaves. 

I'm having trouble getting my lights lower without having the surge protector hanging in the air. I gotta get some pots for the first/final transplant so I may go ahead and get 3 gallon pots since I have plenty of room for the plants to grow and it will put the seedlings closer to the lights. Planned on getting 1.5gal pots.

The cup not on the stand is the Speed Devil. I keep forgetting to label the Blue Mammoth, I know I had that sticker that had its name on it somewhere.

Depending how much the Mylar e-blankets are at wal-mart(same place im getting the pots) I *may* scoop up some of those too.

Is there a better way to get co2 to the plants with the bottles? Putting them inside the box or having them _behind_ the fan maybe? Oh yea for lulz I LST'd my mint.

EDIT: Oh yea I went ahead and added another 42w 6500k so the seedlings are getting hit with 2 of those and one 26w 2700k.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 10, 2012)

Went out and got some 1 gallon pots, wal-mart was being a pain about not drilling holes in these badly crafted pots so I just went ahead and bought what looked like a decent size and went to the automotive dept. and asked them to do it. If these guys rly start taking off before they get into flowering ill go buy a proper 3-5 gallon pot and use these 2 pots as my germination & seedling pots. Also went out and purchased a emergency blanket. I kind of don't feel like putting it in now because the plants are just seedlings and the CFLs are like an inch away so I'm not wasting a lot of light.

Maybe it's the light or maybe its the co2 but the Northern Lights is rly starting to grow. Gonna try my best not to give the girls too much love. Just water, rearrange lights as plants grow, add more co2.
Also as far as I know you aren't supposed to FIM, super crop, top, etc because the plant wouldn't have time to recover in vegetative due to it being an autoflower, but what about LST?


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## Cloudz2600 (May 11, 2012)

Day 10: Nothin new really. Read a really interesting thread about the yeast method - https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/343918-myth-busters-real-truth-co2-13.html I'll be changing from the method I was using before (2 cups of sugar, 2 cups of water, 1/4 tsp of yeast) to this method based on my actual room size. Went out and bought some Fleischmann's active dry yeast and some sugar for the coming weeks. There's a noticeable smell of fermentation in the closet. When's a good time to transplant from the cups? I'll probably fix up the e-blankets when I transplant. I looked around for a little bit(my google foo is admittedly weak), but I didn't find anybody else doing a grow journal of Blue Mammoth yet. Found a lot of people that bought em, but growing not so much.

The smaller one is the Blue Mammoth.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 12, 2012)

Day 11: Just realized after reading a bit that the 1 gallon pots are probably too small for a final transplant so I'm thinking about going to Home Depot or Lowe's for a larger size. The only problem is all the pots in seeing online go my inches not gallons. Is there a way to convert so I know what size to get or is there a inch size I should be looking for? I'm looking for 3 gallons or so, I don't even think I have enough soil for 2x 5 gallons.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 12, 2012)

Update: Called Lowe's and talked to the nursery "specialist." Said a 3 gallon pot would be about be labeled as a 9 1/2 inch pot. The two i bought from wal-mart are 8 inches. Assuming he's right and my math isn't completely off I'd say I have at least a 2 gallon pot. Which I think is ok for a grow this size. It's only $4.67, but that's $4.67(x2) that I don't have to spend. Not sure if I'll post pics today. Almost 500 views ^_^ and just me talking to myself lol.


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## DSB65 (May 12, 2012)

im here bro...keep updating.....rep


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## Cloudz2600 (May 12, 2012)

Really didn't plan on making 3 posts today, I'll try and keep it to 2 tops. Went ahead with the new co2 yeast method. I think the last formula called for 1/2 a tsp of yeast while this one calls for 2.4(12 grams). Also more water and sugar of course. I need to buy a hose or something so I can tell when the yeast has finished fermenting, although the formula tells me to change some of it out every day. Not sure where I would buy one though or what they're really called.

Watered the plants today, I'll update this in a bit when I take pictures. There's something brown on the Northern Lights, not sure if its been there but I tried to rub it off with a bit of water on my finger and it didn't rub off. Growth seems pretty good through, one set of leaves every 1 1/2 days. Read a bit more (it's never enough) and I think I'll wait a little while to transplant. Some threads say wait till I see it getting root bound. Only concern is me waiting too long is the plant might of gone into flowering. Hopefully near the end of next week (week 2 or so) the roots will have grown enough by then to warrant and transplant. Though I guess some people just drop the seed into the final pot too.

I know that Fox Farm has enough nutes in it to last at least 3 weeks. When I transplant I'm adding more FF. When I transplant do it need to consider the soil in there brand new and not 2-3 weeks old? I don't want to burn my plants if I use my Jack's if the soil still has it's own fertilizer still going.

Oh yea, I was looking at the Blue Mammoth on the Tude and saw it's on of the UFOs. Funny thing is the price for one UFO 7 euro less than a pack of 3. The pack of three happens to be "out of stock" though. Oh also either Attitude(+a few other sites) *or* Barney's has the genetics wrong.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 13, 2012)

Day 12: Out of weed maaan, someone wanna mail me some? lol Anyway, I figure I'll set up the e-blankets today in the sterlite tub. It's only been 15 hours since my last post, so there's no new plant growth that's noticeable or anything. Tried spritzing the brown stuff off the leaf and it still didn't come off. Not so much worried as curious to what it is.

Oh yea I set up the new yeast method yesterday. Just by looking at it I'm getting less bubbles. Not sure if that's the yeast, just the way this formula works out or if fermentation hasn't really begun yet.

Update: Set up the e-blanket in the tub. Was beyond frustrating getting it to cut. Left picture is without flash, right picture is with flash.


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## Lady.J (May 13, 2012)

Hey, I'm surprised no one has really commented like that, but I'm subbed and you can be sure to hear my mouth . I'm glad that you continued on despite not have many responses. That Co2 article you linked is very very interesting. You have given me cause for experimentation! It's great that you replaced that foil. I saw on some documentary or another that foil is one of the worst reflectors because it reflects light at oblique angles. The emergency blanket solution should be much better. Even though your plants are little, good reflection will contribute greatly to their growth. Not to mention you need really good reflection since using CFLs. 

That brown stuff on the leaf looks really odd...have no clue what that is (I am a noob!). Usually discoloration means some kind of deficiency I believe. I have heard that having too much phosphorus can cause deficiencies of other minerals. If you already have nutes in the soil, should hold off giving nutes until they are 2 weeks old at the least (some guides say to wait until the baby cotyledon leaves come off).

Think it's a good idea to hold off on transplant like you said. This is a really sensitive time for plants, at least wait until they are out of the seedling stage and into the vegetative stage.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 13, 2012)

Yea scroglodyte said it might be a nute burn. Which makes sense since FFOF is kind of nute heavy for seedlings. I doubt its a deficiency this early in the plants life. I'm just going to wait till it's in flowering(week 3-4) and even then I'll only use a 1/2 strength which is 1/8 tsp. Glad to have another view point ^_^

What's considered the start of the vegetative state?


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## Lady.J (May 13, 2012)

I believe 2-3 weeks after sprouting is how long the seedling stage usually lasts, and then you are in veg. I don't know if you looked at my grow, but mine have just begun veg (they are just over two weeks old).


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## Cloudz2600 (May 13, 2012)

Tbh I read the first 3 pages and the last 3. Just read the others now...Wow! Very interesting stuff, subbed and +rep for all the info and the brave urine method lol. Wasn't 100% sure that autos followed the same time schedule, my first grow was with bagseed like yours.


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## Lady.J (May 13, 2012)

Thanks for taking the time to read it! I am not sure about autos 100%, but I have read about them a lot and so far the only difference I can see is that they flower regardless of light hours (obviously) and some people say that they are not as potent as regular buds. As far as the life cycle from seedling - veg, don't see why they'd be any different but if someone else knows better, feel free to correct me!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Day 13: Noticed some more browning at the tips on the NL. Now it seems for sure that it's nute burn. I may have to transplant into a different soil, but for cost sake I have half a bag of FFOF and I really don't want to buy another bag just for seedlings right now. Just in case you can't see it, the cotyledon is browning up too. Not sure if that's the nute burn or just normal. Yes I know it eventually falls off.

I'm going to not follow the yeast formula completely and instead of doing an additional 1/3 every day I'm going to do a full one every 3 days and just shake up the containers every other day. I noticed the yeast seems to settle at the bottom. *Protip*: Get a large container, I shook up my 9/10 filled container and it exploded all over my wall and on me. Think champagne bottle explosion. 2L containers seem to work.

Watered the plants today, made sure I had a little more run off than normal. More for peace of mind than me thinking this mini-flush actually helped. Should I do an actual flush? No problem with the Blue Mammoth. It's 3 days behind the NL.

Comparing to some other peoples pictures mine hasn't really stretched at all. I'm only on the 3rd set of true leaves tho. Oh yea any idea why the leaves are pointing up so much? They've done that since the first set came out.


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## Lady.J (May 14, 2012)

Def do an actual flush, best way to help with nute burn! Don't feed them again for at least another two weeks, and when you do feed, make sure it's super diluted to start. Those leaves could be pointing up because the nute burn mutated them. I would flush and wait...the leaves should come out better as she grows.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Yea I ended up flushing anyway. Not sure if it was 3x the amount or more. 8oz cup and i ran through 2 full water bottles(used bottles, filled with purified water) and a thermal cup lol.


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## Lady.J (May 14, 2012)

Lol nice, that should be good! I hope everything works out, nute burn can kill a seedling real easy. They other one is looking pretty healthy though!


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## Amaximus (May 14, 2012)

Hey Cloudz, Just found your thread. Nice grow, I'm subbed.

What'cha got going right now, NLxBB Auto, Speed Devil Auto & Auto Blue Mammoth?

I'm towards the end of my photo period grow and then I'll be starting an auto perpetual. Anyway, I somehow managed to plant a NLxBB auto in there are harvested it a few weeks back. I screwed that plant up bad as I didnt know it was an auto but the smoke was nice. You're gonna be happy.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Yay more people, thanks. The Speed Devil never germinated T.T I kept it in the soil till last night. Put in a bottle I had laying around for shits and giggles to see if it will pop. Unlikely probably, so its just the NL and Blue Mammoth. Read somewhere that I should flush until the run off is clear. That right? And yea Lady I'm pretty content with my Blue Mammoth.


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## Amaximus (May 14, 2012)

What/Why are you flushing? Sorry, I kind of breezed through the entire thread. Your flushing because you think you have nute burn? As long as you have good aeration I'd flush until 30-50% runoff.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Yea the FFOF has pretty good aeration. And yes I'm pretty sure its nute burn. Don't feel like taking another pic atm but the coty's have turned completely yellow besides where it meets the stem and that one leaf is even more yellow. Also the tips of 2 leaves are yellow. May be kind of hard to see. Also started another thread in the Marijuana Plant Problems and one person said it was likely a burn too. I'm flushing the Northern Lights x Big Bud.

So why are you switched to autos?


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## Amaximus (May 14, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Yea the FFOF has pretty good aeration. And yes I'm pretty sure its nute burn. Don't feel like taking another pic atm but the coty's have turned completely yellow besides where it meets the stem and that one leaf is even more yellow. Also the tips of 2 leaves are yellow. May be kind of hard to see. Also started another thread in the Marijuana Plant Problems and one person said it was likely a burn too. I'm flushing the Northern Lights x Big Bud.
> 
> So why are you switched to autos?


Ahh ok. I use FFoF as well (with 30% perlite mixed in) and you have to be a little careful with the seedlings but so far I haven't had a problem. It sounds like you have it under control though, So just keep an eye on her.

To be honest it's the "instant gratification" thing. I accidentally planted a NLxBB auto with my photo grow and being that it has already been through flowering, been harvested & smoked while I still had 6 weeks to go on my photo grow I kind of just got infatuated with them.

So... I had a bunch of auto's saved up and just decided to do a perpetual with them. I have like 30 seeds so I'll be going for quite some time. After the auto's are all gone I'll start up a photo period perpetual with 2 tents. =D


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Yea I think a lot of the hate against autos is just that it's not the "traditional method." Looking at getting a tent or something like it for my next grow since I'm moving and won't have a walk in closet like I do now. Did you build your own or just buy it?

Never smoked NL before, how would you describe it?


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## SuperNeeGROW (May 14, 2012)

Nice job, man. Will be watching closely 

Sub'd!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Thanks Super, the more eyes the better.


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## Amaximus (May 14, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Yea I think a lot of the hate against autos is just that it's not the "traditional method." Looking at getting a tent or something like it for my next grow since I'm moving and won't have a walk in closet like I do now. Did you build your own or just buy it?
> 
> Never smoked NL before, how would you describe it?


I've built my own cabinets before but I'm currently using a tent. The one I'm using right now I got from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002V9HZBA/ref=oh_details_o04_s01_i00

It's a great tent, especially for only $83.00 shipped. The first day I got it I crawled inside and had my wife zipper me up, It was 100% lightproof. Not even pinholes from the threads. Beautiful.

I harvested my NLxBB a little bit early, That was intentional. It had a nice racy head high followed by a solid kick to the fucking skull. I'd have to say it was a bit psychedelic, I wasn't expecting that. I'm more of an indica guy but this had a fast paced sativa thing going on. Harvested later and cured properly I'm sure it'd be less racy and more couchlock.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Never used a tent before, I'm assuming it breaks down for easier moving right? May be a bit big for being stealthy imo. Looks like it would work great if that wasn't an issue though.


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## Amaximus (May 14, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Never used a tent before, I'm assuming it breaks down for easier moving right? May be a bit big for being stealthy imo. Looks like it would work great if that wasn't an issue though.


Yeah, She breaks down nice and easy and all. But the reason I got a tent was because it was fast, cheap and easy. It's got almost everything you'd want built into it. For a stealth grow? Nah, You'd be better off DIY'ing it but even then they have smaller tents. If I was a closet grower I know I'd still get a tent and just put that into my closet.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Woah just checked my temps with the new reader. Said 41% humidity and *97F!* It certainly didn't feel that hot when I walk in. Right away I opened the door. As to what will happen with my co2 plan...not sure. Maybe I need to buy a higher CFM fan or something. I really don't plan on using dry ice simply because the room is too large and I can't just let it "fall" on the plants since I need to use my fan. Didn't have any velcro so I placed the meter at the bottom of the bin.

For now I put the 4 co2 "canisters" inside the bin. It's been maybe 5 minutes since I opened the door an the temp dropped 7 degrees, yikes! Also I was using a 42w and another 23w for my mint in the same bin. I stopped using those, my mint has grown to a crazy size since I transplanted last week. I might just put it outside or something. Maybe the temp just got so higher because there was no fresh air coming in so all I did was move hot(obviously not warm) air around. The co2 must of kept the plants from cooking.


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## Lady.J (May 14, 2012)

Sounds like you could benefit from some ventilation!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Ya think? lol. Lights out from 8pm-12pm, so it's been off 30 minutes. Temp is 86 now. Maybe the curling was due to heat stress. Any ideas on the co2? Not sure if I can run it with an open door.


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## Lady.J (May 14, 2012)

To be honest, I read that Co2 might not really be that significant in a small area. It's more like a thing that makes you feel good and like you're doing something to help lol. Heat stress can definitely make the tips curl down, I remember reading that too. Ventilation will actually help you get more Co2 to your plants and help keep it cool. Before I made an outtake on my box, my temps were really high. When I put a fan in the outtake, they dropped considerably. If you can only have one fan, make sure that it's blowing the stale air out! You can't lose with an outtake, only win!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

So in addition to having my door open I should have my fan blowing air not on the plants, but out the door? Don't me on the plants (I experienced wind burn on my first grow), but in the general area.


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## Lady.J (May 14, 2012)

Sorry I wasn't clear! Is there a way that you can get air out without having the door open? It is good to have air blowing out and having air blowing on your plants at the same time. If you can figure out a way to do this, you shouldn't have to open the door.


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## Lady.J (May 14, 2012)

^^^This is what made me end up sealing my box with another on top, so I could control the environment better. Have no idea how I would have ventilated my closet because I live in an apartment.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Yea same thing, I can't exactly tear down walls or anything. Another fan isnt anything, but 10-15 bucks. I need to buy one anyway, my room gets crap ventilation. I can't imagine how I could vent my closet with the door closed. I *could* do what you're doing and I'll need to do it anyway when I move...

For now though, could I have the door open, have a standing fan blowing air out and the smaller fan I alreaddy have blowing air on the fans? I'm growing autoflowers so light leaks aren't an issue. Although having that stupid light on for 20/4 and my door open is going to be a slight issue when I try and sleep lol.

Also I noticed the 2nd set of leaves of the Blue Mammoth starting to do some serious curling too. Glad I went out and bought that temp gauge when I did.


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## Eksellent (May 14, 2012)

Looks good, we started at about the same time, I will start my feedings in a week.


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## Lady.J (May 14, 2012)

In a closet, a fan blowing out of the door won't be adequate ventilation...or people wouldn't even waste their time with all the ducting and extra measures of evacuating air. Those bins aren't that expensive, you're better off grabbing another and setting up your box now...also putting those plants in that box and not having a top on is letting more light escape than you think. If you have a top, you can use a material to reflect the light back onto your babies and make them grow even better. However, if you are set to continue growing the way that you are, you might want an air conditioning unit in there. Even if your box is well ventilated, you would have to move it to a cooler room because it will still have issues being surrounded by a hot closet with stale air. So I guess you have some thinking to do! Let me know if I can help, and be sure to post what you come up with! I'm smoking all night and camping on the forums lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Not much of a choice really. Guess I got some pricing to do. Wal-mart should have most of the stuff I need right? Don't suppose you have a list for all the stuff I'll need to make what you have?

Yea temp is steady at 84F during lights out. Probably looking at 90F with the lights on. In retrospect I'm surprised that survived, let alone grew.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Ugh looking at the bins at wal-mart.com, you found a great deal at 12 bucks a pop. They're 50 for 4 now. They gotta sell them individually, not every needs 4 35 gallons. I should really read before I ask lol, you pretty much say you got everything at wal-mart.


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## Lady.J (May 14, 2012)

I think I listed mostly everything at the beginning of my grow...lol I am being lazy because I am supposed to be rolling a blunt for my boyfriend and I . But yes, Wal-Mart has everything. Tell you what, if you look at the start of my grow and are still a little shaky on what to get, I will list everything here for you!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Haha yea I did, damn you're lucky lol. I'm out and I refuse to buy anymore lol.

EDIT: I actually have the same light clamps as you lol. I bought mine at wal-mart as well. Only thing I'm not too sure about is the soldering iron. So many types on the website. When you get a chance(take your time and roll dat fatty) would you mind linking me or just telling me which kind you got? The way you did it all seems brutally simple, which is awesome. Only thing I'd need to buy is either a 2nd 30 gallon bin or 2 35s, the iron and I guess I'll buy the windshield reflector. Setting up the e-blanket gave me a headache trying to get it to fit.

Forgive me for being a bit lazy, but did you ever add any fans in?


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## Lady.J (May 14, 2012)

I was in the same boat for weeks! I recently came into funds and was finally able to indulge . So you want a list then right? **Rolls up sleeves**. It might take a little bit, but I'll finish it for you before the night is over.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Funds aren'teven an issue lol. I just refuse to buy on the principle that I can(and will) grow my own. I need a t-break anyway or at least that's what I'm telling myself lol.


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## Lady.J (May 14, 2012)

Lol wow...I really admire you for that. Felt the same way, but am weak minded when it comes to Mary and I caved in. Did manage to go a couple weeks and only hit my neighbor's random blunts a couple times. 

Used a soldering iron at lot like this one http://www.walmart.com/ip/Performance-W2013-Pencil-Soldering-Iron/15127898?findingMethod=rr . Was around 5 bucks in the craft section. It came with different pieces and I used the one that was at an angle because it seemed to cut through the bin easier. Make sure you are in a well ventilated room and using a mask when you are soldering...the burning plastic can't be a good thing to inhale and I underestimated how much fumes there would be! Ended up putting a hanky on my face. It stinks big time too. If you're able to do it outside, that would be even better. 

Am only using one fan, its at the 4x4 outtake cut out I made in the upper right hand corner. At the time I didn't have funds for two PC fans, but read that you can get away with just an outtake for a while.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Not sure of the specifications of this, it went to a paint fixer for cars or something like that. Would this work? No reason to buy another if I have 1 ya know? Yea I was looking at that one too. Oh and I can't take the little disk off. And thanks for the tip, I was going to just do it in my room lol.

Any specific PC fan? The reason I didn't want to do a true stealth grow was because I would need to buy all these stupid parts and I hate shopping lol.

Oh I'm totally wanting some green right now believe me, makes it worse that I _could _buy it. I'm only day 3 w/o though, we'll see lol.


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## Lady.J (May 14, 2012)

Your control over yourself is superior to mine def lol. That thing gets super hot right? If so I don't see why you can't use it. You can use any 4x4 or 120mm X 120mm PC fan. If you were trying to find a resourceful way to power it, you can strip an old cell phone charger's wires and wire it to the fan (use electrical tape!). I had to buy an AC / DC converter from Radioshack because of course I couldn't find any of my old chargers!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

I've literally got a box full of all the chargers I've had over the past like...10 years lol. Not much of an electrical guy and I don't like sloppy work that could possibly kill me if I decide to get high and touch stuff. I'm guessing the PC fan to convert is a pretty simple and clean? And yea I'm guessing if it's supposed to melt paint onto a car to fix patches that I should be hot enough to melt a thin layer of plastic. I really just don't want to buy 4 stupid bins. Did you order your fan or buy it in store? Also how much CFM did you get/would recommend?


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## Lady.J (May 14, 2012)

I was scared of the electrical part too!! But if you cross the wires, the only thing that happens is that the fan will blow backwards . Do a youtube search, you're more capable than you think. Put electrical tape around the exposed part (of course you're doing all this while the charger is unplugged) and it's legit. Oh by the way, PC fans are 12 volts, most phone chargers are half that, so you won't get the true potential power of the fan. In that aspect, an AC / DC converer would be better. Do note that you still will have to connect wires manually (similar to how you can do a charger). The more expensive converters have you push the wire into a plug that attaches to the fan, and then plug it into the power supply. Is this too much info? lol I'm ridiculous when I'm high.


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## Lady.J (May 14, 2012)

Oh and as for the fan...if you're being sensible money-wise, online has some good deals if you shop around. I used to build computers and Tiger Direct was my sh-t for prices. But I didn't want to wait and do all that, went to Radioshack and paid 25 bucks. It was the better of the fans and I had it so thought, why not!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Was looking at amazon for like 5 minutes and found this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004YUKWSW

Not sure about the prices yet, I haven't really looked at other brands or anything. This can plug directly into the outlet though and I have at least 2 slots left on my surge protector I think.

Considering all I need is the reflective material, the bin(s) and the fan I think I'm willing to put in $50 max. Hopefully I can get well under that. I know I can just use my current fan and just cut a hole and place the fan right next to it.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Also I've gotten the closet down to 82F. That's within the tolerable temp. Also put the co2 inside the bin. Not sure it even matters since the door is wide open.


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## Lady.J (May 14, 2012)

Nice, they should be doing better now then. Did you end up having to water them? That fan you picked out is a good choice, that way you don't have to bother with all that lol . It sounds like you can get this thing rolling real soon! I'm excited to see what all you do


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

I flushed them both today. It was the 2nd or 3rd day w/o watering. I'll check the journal later. I have the Jack's Classic for later and seedlings don't need that many nutes anyway. I'm going to assume I'll have the same problem with the BM that I had with the NL so I'll try and catch it early. With 97F I'm thinking a lot of the problems were attributed to heat stress though. Going to go to wal-mart and w/e tech store is near me tomorrow. I'd rather not have to wait 3-5 business days and pay shipping if I don't have to. I think it's Comp USA

Yea all these fans on Tiger Direct are 3-4 pin fans. That requires some wiring.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Read somewhere that 40dBA and higher is what a normal PC fan sounds like right? Anything lower is "stealth." Not so much concerned for the stealth aspect, but the bin is going to be in my room when I move and having a jet engine in my room would not help me sleep.


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## Lady.J (May 14, 2012)

I am ignorant when it comes to sound in fans, stealth isn't really an issue for me either so didn't bother looking too much into it. The fan I have though is decent...and it's pretty much the average fan. Don't even notice it after awhile, especially if you wipe the blades every now and then.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 14, 2012)

Just found this: http://www.amazon.com/Inch-Fan-Power-Plug-Cord/dp/B004YUUAJS/ref=pd_sim_hi_7 I think you could of used this lol.

2 of the fans I posted will cost me $39.98(total) with my only shipping option being expedited(1-3) days, $7 shipping. That with the bin, if I only need 1, should still keep me pretty close to the $50 mark. Guess I have an interesting day ahead of me. Also the lights just came out so I'll see if a hour or so how much the temps increase. I'm only running 2 42w and a 26w now.


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## Lady.J (May 14, 2012)

Lol yup...but I actually liked the wiring experiment, just to prove to myself that I could do it lol! If you haven't already, google for some rubbermaid or sterilite grows, doing that gave me almost all the ideas I had for my box.


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## Amaximus (May 15, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Just found this: http://www.amazon.com/Inch-Fan-Power-Plug-Cord/dp/B004YUUAJS/ref=pd_sim_hi_7 I think you could of used this lol.
> 
> 2 of the fans I posted will cost me $39.98(total) with my only shipping option being expedited(1-3) days, $7 shipping. That with the bin, if I only need 1, should still keep me pretty close to the $50 mark. Guess I have an interesting day ahead of me. Also the lights just came out so I'll see if a hour or so how much the temps increase. I'm only running 2 42w and a 26w now.


Don't go crazy over paying for stuff you can get cheaper. Everything you want can be found @ newegg.com with free 2 day shipping.

I bough this adapter for $9/shipped: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16881618108
They also have hundreds, if not thousands of different fans you could wire to that adapter. Most fans listed on the website provide all the details you wants as well such as dBa and CFM for each fans. Find what you need, wire it to that adapter and call it a day all for less than $15/shipped!

Also, I found this link very useful: https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/270098-how-connect-your-pc-fan.html


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## Cloudz2600 (May 15, 2012)

Will a pair(intake and outtake) of fans at 60-80CFM be enough air movement? And thanks for that link that really helps.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 15, 2012)

Day 14: Going to get some PC fans, some windshield reflectors, a 30-35 gallon bin and an adapter for the fans(unless I can find the ones that plug into the wall at Comp USA). Temp is at 84F with the door open and me only running 2 42w CFLs, one per plant. Leaves are curling, but I just flushed yesterday so it's kind of expected.

UPDATE: Checked a few websites of stores in my location and none of them have prices comparable to neweggs. So heres what I got:

2x http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811998124
1x http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16881618109

I went with the fan because it has 63 CFM, the dBA was still under 40 and because it under 6 bucks a pop.
Chose the adapter because the guide you posted said if I'm using 2 fans or more play it safe and get a least a 1 amp charger.

Thanks for the links Amaximus, I'm familar with shop runner lol. I've used their free 30 day trial like 4 times lol. Going to go to wal-mart to get the rubbermate or sterlite bins and possibly the reflectors if I'm lucky. If not I think the closet dollar store is across the street from Wal-mart lol.


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## Lady.J (May 15, 2012)

Nice, that's a good choice of fan. Might go ahead and get one myself...beats paying 25 bucks anytime lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 15, 2012)

I think shop runner only looks at the account name and email address. Not sure if they look at the actual card number. Otherwise 2 day shipping is like 15 bucks.


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## Lady.J (May 15, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Will a pair(intake and outtake) of fans at 60-80CFM be enough air movement? And thanks for that link that really helps.


My bad, missed this part. This will def be adequate for the bins though. My plants are thriving off only outtake (I'm not sure of the CFM) and a small fan circulating air inside. I got bored and made a video last night showing the inside of the box in case you wanted to see everything in action! I think I will be forum camping again today...have half an ounce and love reading while blazing! lol


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## Cloudz2600 (May 15, 2012)

Lady.J said:


> have half an ounce and love reading while blazing! lol


Just a _b_it jealous, I'm gonna go out to wal-mart in an hour or so. When I come back I'm sure I have some questions ^_^

EDIT: Before I go, you just purchased 1 windshield reflector per bin?


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## Amaximus (May 15, 2012)

Glad I could help. Sometimes being a computer guy comes in handy. =D

BTW not that it matters since you've made your purchase and it is only a $1 difference but if you look at the fan you bought is runs 0.35A and the original adapter I listed has 0.80 output which means you could run 2 fans from that one adapter.

Like I said, it doesn't matter just wanted to point that out for future reference. The adapter you ended up getting is 1.25A so you could run 3 fans off it.


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## Lady.J (May 15, 2012)

I think I ended up using two reflectors! Had a little bit left over after that.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 15, 2012)

Yea I was looking for how many amps it used, couldn't find it. Figured it was better to be safe than sorry. Thanks Lady, I was wondering how large that reflector you used was lol.


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## Amaximus (May 15, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Yea I was looking for how many amps it used, couldn't find it. Figured it was better to be safe than sorry. Thanks Lady, I was wondering how large that reflector you used was lol.


Yeah, it wasn't listed on the website. I just enlarged the photo of the fan and read it off the sticker in the center. 
Glad everything is coming together for you!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 15, 2012)

Just a random question, but as far as age vs growth how are mine doing? I didn't record my first grow, was more of a "see if it's possible" thing.


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## Amaximus (May 15, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Just a random question, but as far as age vs growth how are mine doing? I didn't record my first grow, was more of a "see if it's possible" thing.


Not sure where you are in your grow, Your last update says 12 days old i think?
These are what my girls looked like after 14 days after being planted. (They germed on 2/10 and were planted 2/12 - These photos are from 2/26)
View attachment 2168328View attachment 2168329View attachment 2168330


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## Cloudz2600 (May 15, 2012)

I'm on day 10 then I think then. I planted 2 days after they "germed." In all honesty I think I planted them without seeing any taproots.
Went to wal-mart and got 2 30 gallon bins at $9 each and 2 reflectors at $3.50 each. Only bought 2 of each in case the older 30 gallon bin I have doesn't fit the new one.

It fits so I'll be returned one bin. Guess I got a bit of DIYing to do lol.


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## Lady.J (May 15, 2012)

I started counting mine from when they actually showed through the soil...your seedlings do seem a little small but they are also trying to fight through nute burn. Their growth will probably be delayed, but should correct itself soon.


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## dave1960 (May 15, 2012)

hey are you doing the c02 I dont know how to do this and Im here I am lovin your grow guy...


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## Cloudz2600 (May 15, 2012)

On one of the pages I posted a link that gave a formula based on the room size, but I liked the 2 cups of sugar, 2 cups of water 1/2 a tsp of yeast method. I think that produced more co2, but was more expensive in the long run.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 15, 2012)

Hey Lady, I got the holes made. For the life of me I couldn't get that soldering iron to get hot on the edges so I got a knife and did it old school. Same with the holes for the lights. How did you get the lights to stay straight and stick to the ceiling?


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## Lady.J (May 15, 2012)

I grouped them together all the way to the surge protector with electrical tape. When I need my lights raised, I put more tape. I know it's probably not the most efficient way, but it works and isn't difficult.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 15, 2012)

Here's what I mean, whenever the cord isn't being pull from a straight angle above it shines the light at an angle. Left is being pulled how I would have it if the surge prot. was on the floor or on side of the bin, right is me pulling it from right above.


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## Lady.J (May 15, 2012)

I think I understand your question...I fed my cords into the holes on the top so that their own weight holds them straight and they are suspended only inches away from my plants. This made me have to attach the surge protector to the box to make sure the cords had the right length to hang inside the box, close to the canopy. So if you feed the cord inside you should have your lights straight. I hope that is what you meant! I am high AND sometimes the simplest things go over my head lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 16, 2012)

Day ?: Too lazy to take pics but the blue mammoth's new growth is starting to curl. It happened after I flushed so I wanna guess it's over-watering. Browning has stopped on the NL, though it starting to curl as well. Temps are steady at 79(lights off)-82(lights on). I'll set of the other bin on top of the other one when the fans arrive. They arrived in my state at 9am today. Water drained pretty well I thought, but I've never done a full flush before. The NL's leaves have also leveled out. So I guess heat and over-fertilizing issues have been fixed. Going to let both plants dry out fairly well. I think I watered 2 days ago? Checked the soil, it was fairly warm and still had obvious signs of moisture. Not damp or anything, just like if I had watered it yesterday.

On an unrelated note: wtf is with RIU the past week?


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## Lady.J (May 16, 2012)

I don't know but it's pretty damn annoying!!


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## Amaximus (May 16, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> On an unrelated note: wtf is with RIU the past week?


The admins have been updating the servers/the website (Notice the Like button is back and you can track posts by sub forums?). There have been notices all week posted on the top of every page detailing it. of course a hop over to the support forums also explains this.


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## Amaximus (May 16, 2012)

Scratch that. Nothing is listed anymore. Upgrades must all be done.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 17, 2012)

My fans and the charger just came in today. Seems a little bit bigger than 4 inches so I'll have to widen the hole. Camera battery died and I can't find the charger right now. Probably in one of these boxes I got laying around. I put another NLxBB in a wet paper towel and put the paper towel in a class with a VERY small amount of water. Put the glass in a cabinet under my entertaintment system. I did this because the other 2 plants aren't growing at all or at least not at a rate I can see. Slightly worried as the 2nd set of leaves on both plants have clawed. Nute burn is gone and temp is at 82, it's about 78 and 83 outside. Going to buy some soil that doesn't have any or at least not a lot of nutes in it. For the sake of being cheap would it be ok to take some of the top soil I used for my basil and use that for the seedling? Basil is just about done and the pot is like 7-8 gallons anyway for it will still have a lot. Just wondering if "used" soil is detrimental even though I'm looking for a lack of nutes in my soil.

I think I'm going to remove the emergency blankets, they give better reflectivity I _think, _but they don't stick to the wall that well and with the fan on it makes that wind against foil sound. Gonna make sure I have enough leftover windshield reflector first of course. If I don't maybe I'll just make it the ceiling instead of the floor.

Still not sure how you got those lights to stay straight. Maybe I need to have the top part of the lights(where the cord is) come out all the way? Did you give it some slack then just group the cables together? I don't see the top of your lights so I'm assuming you're letting it hang?


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## Lady.J (May 17, 2012)

Yup, I hung them inside the box first, at a height that I estimated would be slightly above the pots (about 3-4 inches). Then I grouped whatever was outside the box together with electrical tape. Sorry about your seedlings! Are you going to try and give them a little longer? If you still don't get what I'm doing with my lights, I'll try to take more pics...but all I did was feed them through the holes until they were the right height away from my plants, then grouped the cable that was left outside the box together with electrical tape.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 17, 2012)

Yea, I don't think they're dying because the stems and leaves are still firm. And no need that makes plenty of sense now. Myabe I just didn't get before. The picture you posted helped more than the description that went with it lol. Snap I forgot I don't have electrical tape. Off to the dollar store!


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## Lady.J (May 17, 2012)

Lol sorry if my description sucked. We'll hope the best for those girls, have seen some seedlings recover from some pretty bad stuff!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 17, 2012)

Yea I move August 10th so hopefully at least the new NL will finish by then. Only running a 42w per seedlings so it's not like I'm paying $100s of dollars by keeping the lights runnning.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 17, 2012)

Got the fans to work, I assume they're just quiet right? The charger I used should be giving them enough energy. That thread u posted Amax was very helpful. I'd give you so more rep, but it won't let me lol. You and Lady have been awesome.


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## Lady.J (May 17, 2012)

Yea they're probably just quiet...what changes in your temp and humidity have you noticed (if any)? Glad you feel like I'm helping!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 17, 2012)

I haven't set it up yet. I still need to get the lights to hang properly. I should prolly do it now while it's lights out. Gonna take it out of the closet and put it in my room tho.

How do you adjust the lights, just give it more slack and retape it when you have to?


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## Lady.J (May 17, 2012)

Yup. It can be a little irritating at first, but you get used to it.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 17, 2012)

Well fixed it all up lol. Took me 3 F**king hours to to cut an additional 1/2 inch in each hole to make the fans fit and to cut an additional hole for the second light clamp. Covered any open parts with electrical tape except for the top, figure its more room for hot air to get out and it would be too much of a pain since I'll need to readjust the lights anyhow. It's 63 outside and my window is cracked open. Think my thermometer said it was 76 inside the apartment. Inside the box it's reading at 77F with 53% humidity, MUCH better. I am worried about how much damage was done though >.<

Temp was 81 and then I took out a 42w 6500k and switched it out for a 26w 2700k. Tbh I've kind of lost hope in the girls, but I'm still hoping they pull through if that makes sense. Didn't go out and buy soil. Any opinions on using used soil just for the seedlings? The soil that I'm talking about was already in the basil when I bought it from wal-mart. Basil is maybe a month old (since I brought it home). Yes, I know it's better to buy a whole new bag, but if I don't have to I really don't want to.


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## kosherboy (May 19, 2012)

Hey Im also in the process of growing a NLxBB, Im only a few days behind you my seeds popped up from the soil on the 10th or 11th. Im probably not going to do a journal though. You care if i post pics on this one for comparisons and feed back?


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## Lady.J (May 19, 2012)

Hey I wouldn't recommend used soil personally...you can get a bag of new soil for like 4bucks! Got any pics of how you did your box?


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## Cloudz2600 (May 20, 2012)

So long as this doesn't become your picture journal Kosher I don't mind. Yea I'll post pics in a sec, had internet issues for the past few days. Hey Lady what's the temp in the room you have the bin in vs the temp inside the bin? Temps have been 79-82 during the day, it's been 77-80 in the apt and like 80-85 outside.
Temps have been 73-75(during lights out, 8pm-12am) and 77-79 when it's dark outside.

I was totally more worried about the nute burn and forgot to check the roots, the NL was pretty root bound so I transplanted it. Checked the BM(3 days behind the NL) and 2 roots have reached the bottom. Not sure what happpened to that leaf. Maybe a light fell out it. I had issues getting the electrical tape to keep the light up so I used the detergent. Planted another NL last night, I found the miracle grow organic something I had laying around and used that for the seed. I used that for my first grow and didn't have any nute burn throughout the entire grow. I'll transplant into FFOF after it gets out of the seedlings stage.

Not sure how the first NL and the BM are going to turn out. Supposedly vegetative period ends after week 3 and I'll be on week 3 tomorrow. Normally I would just keep vegging them, but I don't have the option with autos. The nute burn and heat really set me back. I'll do my best with the new NLxBB, not gonna try any more this cycle.


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## Lady.J (May 20, 2012)

Lol about the detergent! You gotta do what you gotta do! I think I'm going to invest in some gorilla tape...electrical tape sucks for anything but cables / wires. The temp of my room is usually about 3 degrees cooler than what my box is. My temps in the box get as low as 73 with the light off and highest is 84. It's pretty damn hot here sometimes though! Your box is looking pretty legit!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 20, 2012)

Yea, I tried using what must of been half the roll and it just seems to fall off. That's probably what happened to that leaf, it got burned. How many lights/watts are you running now?


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## Lady.J (May 20, 2012)

Have two 42watt 6500k and one 34(ish, might be 32) 6500k. I really want to get some 2700 k to mix it up...two of them at just 23 watts should be good. I am kind of broke for the moment though!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 20, 2012)

Maybe the lights don't give off as much heat as I thought if you have more lights and our temps are around the same. Might go ahead and add the other reflector and a 42w then. Not sure if you ever looked into it Lady, but wal-mart sells light bulb extenders that have 2 outlets that you can plug stuff into in addition to the regular socket. I have one of those screwed into each reflector so my y splitters fit. I'm using the other reflector in my closet for the new NLxBB, so I can't take a picture right now, but when I move it into the bin in a day or 2 I'll show you what it looks like if you want.

Really surprised by these NLxBB, maybe it's the strain maybe it's the breeder. The seed I planted last night, around 11pm has already sprouted.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 20, 2012)

Oh also I switched the timer from 8pm-12am(off) to 3pm-7pm. Figured it would help at least a little if the lights were off during the peak heat ours and being an auto flower I don't have to worry about light leaks. Seems like the real downside to autos is that if anything bad happens I can't veg them until they recover. Since my temp isn't 97F anymore tho any new grows should be fine. What an insane temp.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 21, 2012)

Who says surfing the net isn't productive. Found an interesting thread regarding ventilation. I understood like...none of it besides the pictures and the pros and cons. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=112862 I think the "*Ventilation Chart"* chart was pretty cool.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 21, 2012)

Just a quick update, nothing special really. Switching the off times worked out pretty well, I tried adding the new NL, but I was having so much trouble seeing how far down the lights needed to go that I said fuck it and put it in my closet under 1 42w until it at least shows it's coty's. The NL and BM are doing MUCH better. I'm glad I flushed when I did because a few days later I noticed the other leaf browning too. Here's a quick comparison: Left is new(From left, NL, BM,) right is old. I really should of taken better pictures of the burns. Pretty sure the dmg on the BM is from a light because as soon as I got the light situation fixed it stopped. The NL is at least 3 nodes and growth has started again since I transplanted. I guess it's just a race to see how much growth before it starts flowering.


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## Lady.J (May 21, 2012)

Nice! Glad to see they're recovering and some new growth!!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 22, 2012)

Minor update: The new NL that sprouted has still yet to show its coty's. Quite odd. I kept it in the "humidity dome", but I've never really seen them take this long after sprouting.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 22, 2012)

Another minor update: I'm kinda depressed at how this grow is going, my first grow started with 2 bagseeds in the same pot using sunshine from a window seal and went much better than this did. Can't win em all I guess. I transplanted the Blue Mammoth into it's final container, the pot I posted earlier. Tbh I should of moved the Northern Lights into the other pot a few days ago instead of that 6 inch clay pot it's in now. I'll transplant in a day or 2. I watered them both today so the soil is a bit too soggy for another transplant. I doubt I'll disturb the roots because they haven't had enough time to grow to the edge of the pot yet(hopefully). I made a thread about my tempature and how my CFM for the fans are related here: https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/530490-low-cfm-high-temp-2.html if you don't feel like reading it that's fine there main piece of information that I looked at was this:


darkdestruction420 said:


> how many cubic feet is that bin btw? you want the air in the room to be totally replaced at least once a minute and with using larger cfls as you add more you'll find it becomes even more important that you have a quick air replacement rate. i always tried to get at least 2 times a minute on my larger cfl grows. honestly the more i think of it the more i think you should get something a bit stronger than what youve got. it would be alot easier and more effecient to have just 1 strong exhaust fan with the passive intakes, you could always use the computer fans for blowing on the plants inside the grow area. i have used cfls in the 40w range in the past alot, i had a scrog dresser going with 24 of them for quite a while but ive also had plenty of smaller grow boxes and areas using the larger cfls and i dont think you'll be able to do more than 5 or 6 in that area with what you have for ventilation. summer is going to make it even more difficult and if you want to run them during the day you'll probably need to have the ac going even with a stronger exhaust fan if the ambient temp of the room the grow bin is located in doesnt stay pretty cool. like in the low to mid 80's tops. that still might not be enough to stop the cfls from pushing the temp up over the low 90's range. an option to consider is adding more smaller bulbs that you can place closer to the plant when you increase the lighting like you said you plan to do, it also helps you maximize your space as you can get the plant within 1/2 inch of a 26w usually if youve got a circulation fan blowing between the lights and plants while it cant get much closer than 2 1/2-3 with a 40w. it might nor sound like a big deal but you'd be surprised how quickly you run out of room. you can also use the 26w wherever you need a bit of extra light to help fatten up colas and really surround your plants with light on all angles and can really fatten up your nugs substantially. i no longer use the 40w bulbs myself for the reasons listed. its something to keep in mind. lol


In light of that, I took out the 6500k and 2700k 42w bulbs and put in 4 26w 2700k bulbs. I actually had trouble finding a 6 pack of 6500k, probably because most homes use 2700k bulbs. Each plant gets 2 26w CFLs. I can always add 2 more lights with the other sockets I have, but I'm going to see how the heat is. This summer heat is really killing me(and my plants). I can't wait until it's fall/winter or even early spring. The guys in the thread also suggested having a passive intake and 2 exhaust fans so I may do that as well. Just really don't want to cut another hole in the bin ya know?

I covered the sprouted NL with more dirt. Read a few threads about how this may happen if the seed is planted too shallow, I just can't seem to get this stuff going lol. Right now it's in my closet with a ziplock bag covering most of the cup under a 42w 6500k for heat/light. The shell has come off, but nothing so far. On the bright side everything is much better than when I started this grow.

Hey Lady, I noticed in either one of your pictures of videos that you had a fan inside the bin, what size was the fan and do you have a brand name so I can possibly buy one? One of the people in the thread suggest I put a fan inside so that it moves the air around the lights. I may look around to see if I can find a higher CFM fan, these things really don't make that much noise and I'm a pretty hard sleeper so I doubt a 80-100 CFM fan(this one is 63) will bother me much more.

I'm going to look for my charger tonight so I can charge my camera(duh) and take some pics. I swear I only misplace things when I need them.


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## Lady.J (May 22, 2012)

I know it must be frustrating but don't get discouraged, I know you can do it. Once you get the hang of things, your plants are going to be some bad bitches. How do the temps seem with the change of light? The fan inside my box is 120mm. The brand is Thermaltake TT-1225A. Grabbed these specs off the net:
Features:


4 pin Molex Power Connector
3 pin Power Connector
2 pin speed regulator connector
Speed: 1400 RPM
Airflow: 41.6 CFM
Noise: 21 dBA

Grabbed it from radioshack. I didn't pay attention to the specs til now to be honest lol! There were two fans to choose from at this little ass Radishack by my house, this one was like 10 bucks more than the other, so figured it'd be the best to go with. Kinda pissed cuz when I looked this up for you, found out it was waaaaay cheaper online. I am also keeping the box in a room with regular AC to keep things cool. Def notice a difference when I don't! Things got hot kinda quick.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 22, 2012)

79 in the apartment, 81 in the box, so no change. I guess that makes sense and I just added 22 more watts. I'm actually going to open the window lol, its 73 outside. I'm trying to be easy on the a/c because I use it A LOT during the day when it's like 80-85F so I try not to use it as much during the night and just use the outside air. $10 *more*? Jeez the ones I bought were like $5.60 each.

I'm not talking about the PC fans, I think I saw a small white fan inside the box?


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## Lady.J (May 22, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> 79 in the apartment, 81 in the box, so no change. I guess that makes sense and I just added 22 more watts. I'm actually going to open the window lol, its 73 outside. I'm trying to be easy on the a/c because I use it A LOT during the day when it's like 80-85F so I try not to use it as much during the night and just use the outside air. $10 *more*? Jeez the ones I bought were like $5.60 each.
> 
> I'm not talking about the PC fans, I think I saw a small white fan inside the box?


Ah! That's a lil cheapo fan I got from wal-mart for like 5 bucks


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## Cloudz2600 (May 22, 2012)

Do you find that it helps any. Like have you gone without and noticed a difference? I figure I'll ignore what the people in the thread said and keep 1 intake fan and just buy another for exhaust instead of having one of the PC fans inside and having a passive intake. Active intake has to be better than passive right? PC fan is cheap and 2 day shipping is free so why not right? I can see how people spend $1000's on the stuff lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 22, 2012)

The temps haven't change at all, ranges from 78-81 regardless of the combination of lights. I'm gonna go ahead and assume that my ventilation is adequate and my main issue is ambient temps. I've even tried running 3 42w CFLs and the temps still stayed within that range. I'll probably end up buying that 3rd fan and I'm gonna start looking at dry ice methods. Tax refund is getting here by friday at the latest so I'm gonna be be b-b-ballin lol. Also my room doesn't have a fan(the living room does), so I'm going to pick up one of those tomorrow just for my own comfort. Maintenance installs them for free.

Found a high CFM fan: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835132022
Reviews said it was pretty loud, but the dBA is only 5-6 more than the fans I'm using now. $10 is a little more than I was expecting, so I'm still going to look around at least until friday.


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## Lady.J (May 23, 2012)

Your temps sound good to me! The fan is a good idea, you want to keep those ladies dancing so their stems are nice and strong. lmao wish I was ballin' with you. and you know I had to point out that you're going to be ballin' but a 10$ fan is too much for you player lol. I think for the CFM that it's a really good price...saved it to my bookmarks cuz I might have to get it myself!!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 23, 2012)

Yea, I don't think I'm going to mess around with the box until the plants get larger and I have to add more lights.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 23, 2012)

Transplanted Northern Lights into final container, surprisingly enough the roots had actually reached the edges of the pot and stretched all the way to the bottom as well. I added a 42w 6500k in the middle of the bin just to mix the spectrum a little bit so now I'm running 4 26w 2700k and a 42w 6500k. Not sure if I can do the 204w with the tools I have now since I switched to a closed container and I can't think of a way to fit the smaller light clamp in without propping the box open a little bit. I may get another pair of y splitters and attach em to the first pair of splitters so I can add an extra light per reflector. Or I may just go ahead and shell out $11 more for another reflector and _then _buy an extender and another y splitter so I can run 2 more lights in a much neater way...

You after reading that, paying 3 bucks for a pair of splitters vs 15 for the relfector+extender+splitter kinda seems like a no brainer. I'm currently using a extension cable I already have and a light bulb socket to a/c socket converter. Only issue I may have is that the 42w is in the middle of the bin while the 2 pots are on the left and right side. Not sure how much light it's going to provide, but I've got the tube pointing down level with the plants, so any light it does give off is hitting the entire length of both plants.

BM of course is 3 days behind, but I think the light burn may have stunted it. I think I'm going to stick with 23-26w CFLs from now on, I can put them much much closer to the plants than I can 42w without worrying about heat issues. I just need to figure out the best way to get more lights in the bin.

Still haven't gone to wal-mart or home depot for the ceiling fan and the smaller fan. The apartment office closes in like 30 minutes so I think I'll have to put it off till tomorrow. I may go ahead and grab the smaller fan today though.

In a completely unrelated note do you guys think I should grow the La Diva and Afgan Kush Ryder for my next grow or go 12/12 from start and grow the Pineapple Chunk and Critical Kush? I really don't want to veg for 1 1/2 months and then flower for 9-12 more weeks. Oh the new NL still hasn't spread it's false leaves, so I'm just going to put it outside and hope for the best.


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## eside (May 24, 2012)

Hi m8, how r u , wa gwan? I see u trying to grow ur self some weed r u  no shit me to  i bumped in to ur thread and saw the dates , u got ur plants just a little bit after me , but i didn't seed mines,friend did and i just picked up already seeded plants after its first real leafs...that is how much i had a head start...i got it to my apartment and really didn't have any lights, on the windows of the apartment i have light only 3-4 hours a day . So i figured out its not going to do the job. What one can do in that situation ,no money, no light for my plant.... i went to WC to take a nice long dump and think what am i going to do . While load was on its way an idea started coming to me , and by the time u could hear big BANG of pay loud dumping i saw a small Neon light in my WC... that's it , there is my light  problem is it was like 6-7 feet from the ground and sealed to the wall so i had to suspense my pot on computer cables and disassemble the Neon light(11W) so that the sanded white plastic reflector wont get in the way of light. There was not much light in that 11W so last thing i needed is something in between light and my plant . It worked, after about a week i've added a PC fan to it , i just suspend it on the neon lights with some computer cable . Before introduction of a fan ,she was all weak an would crumble under the weight of water ,after fan in a day she become strong. It was time for transplanting. I made my pot my self by cutting some plastic box. I made holes for water drainage and all that ,and try to suspend it on the Neon light like i did with smaller pot. It was mision impossible, to much weight of soil and water would break computer cables or neon light so i took a nice dump once again. Idea... make a structure from something a little bit stronger than cables and then hook it up with neon light and then place a pot on the supporting structure. This was a little bit more complicated to do with just things u can find in average apartment ( so the picture in a link below will tell that story). I was happy finishing transplanting and getting it back to its place under the Neon light, she was happy too an continued to grow . After a week more it was getting real big so i got some money and got me self some 42W CFL , after i got the light, i made a grow box in closet and that was 5 days ago, im in to my 3th week and u can see all that progress here( https://www.box.com/files/0/f/289652331 ), as she was doing well i updated her life support system a bit more for every good feedback she was giving me , now we have there CO2 generator , supplement CO2 generator ,air mixer ,climate control ,humidity control, air flow menagment ,supplement 20W 2700K CFL ,some nutes, rain water .... . , i have no measuring devices everything i do is measured in love and she appears to like it . It is my first grow,my first plant , my first box ,its a mystery seed but i can see now its mostly indica strain . If u need explenation on how i menage to do some things just ask ill be glad to answer .. 
NOW ILL TELL WHAT I THINK ABOUT UR GROW nuf with mine 

Oh man were to start , u nuted the seeding ,plant that is old few days ,because u have no patience , im not going to lie here so don't get this wrong , u were an asshole to ur plants, u were like Stalin in Russia in fear of Hitler so he forced his own ppl( like u were doing to ur plant) to prosper or die...but it didn't work. U almost killed it , u shouldn't do that , young plants need just water and there is no manual to tell u when u should nute ur plant but if u listen carefully she will tell u when is the wright time to give her some boost. First she must ask for it or unused nutes will build up cuz she isn't using them and she will die from intoxication. Then u tried to correct late seen problem with some quick flashing and u end up drowning ur already weak plants. Disaster after disaster , impatience being the main cause once again ,and again u've been an asshole to ur plants , dont get me wrong i know u are doing ur best but since i've done it good first time and u mess up ur second grow for the second time in a row ,that tells me something. Then u burn ur plants with the coolest lights on the market ,i mean come on....and all u have to say to that is ,well im gonna spend a little bit more money on some good fans and itll be alright.. NO IT WONT,THEY WILL DIE if u don't get ur self str8.... it doesn't need ur money ,it need attention and care, pls do nut get me wrong for being this harsh to u but u are killing ur plants 3th time in a row, someone needs to tell u that u are paying to much to ur local market and paying to little attention to ur plants. PLS , don't kill them m8 , ill help u do better job,help u sort ur shit out , get them plants to love u again and build stable environment for them to grow in . and when i save ur plants i just need a few seeds of that nice stuff u got there cuz in my country there is no seed store, its least and fer thing to do if someone saves ur crop. Do we have a deal m8? SRY for bad eng not my 1st language


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## Lady.J (May 24, 2012)

eside said:


> u were like Stalin in Russia in fear of Hitler so he forced his own ppl( like u were doing to ur plant) to prosper or die...but it didn't work.


LMAO @ the analogy...but I feel where you are coming from. I do see some validity here, but I wouldn't call you an asshole Cloudz . But I am sure that you have learned from these grows and have already been reading and thinking of a different approach.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 24, 2012)

I fear for the human race when I read posts like these lol. Run on sentences, misspelled words, incorrect punctuation. It's like you just typed without looking. Not sure if serious, but here I go!

I didn't add *any* nutes to my plants. The soil by itself was too hot and burned them. It's obvious that a 42w bulb will still burn a plant's leaves if it touches it. I had issues getting the lights to stay with the electrical tape(which is why I switched to detergent bottle) and by the time I noticed the tape wasn't holding the reflector it was too late. Flushing it what saved my plants.The "quick flushing" was only before I read Lady's suggestion to do a complete flush. She posted maybe 10 minutes after I did my quick flush. A little bit of curling was worth it to prevent any more nute burn issues. I corrected the problem at the first sign of nute burn. Also if you check I posted the threads in where I asked for help for each of my problems. I got the help of many people in regards to my nute burn and they suggested flushing. Once you notice nute, burn a flush won't fix the problem right away, but it will prevent it from happening again.

My solution to my light burn wasn't fans. I noticed the temp inside the bin was 84F+ and I needed to cool it down. I also appreciate you reading up a few post where I said I switched to 26w CFLs to combat the problems of the hot bulbs. For each problem I've had I corrected it. 97F temp, I moved the plants out of the closet. Nute burn, flush. Curling leaves, let it dry out a bit. Temp in bin too high, I bought fans. Light burn, I move the lights up. Yes, I've had more problems than I thought I would originally, but I feel like I handled each of them in a quick and appropriate manner all while asking multiple people for their opinions.


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## Lady.J (May 24, 2012)

You don't even have to defend yourself, but I'm glad you cleared that up. With all the issues you've run into, you know exactly how to make this next grow better. Technically the kush and skunk I'm growing now aren't my first grow because I did a test run on that bagseed...and it was all messed up with Nitrogen deficiency. The only reason I probably didn't burn it is because I got lucky and bought an organic soil that had pretty much no nutes in it (I didn't check before ordering, just happened to turn out that way). Everyone runs into problems the first time they grow, and way too many people give up. You keep trying, correcting, and overcoming...that shit is what is important. Not that your first grow didn't turn out to be worthy of a centerfold in High Times. I know you can do it, and I know you WILL grow some dank fire ass doja.


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## eside (May 24, 2012)

The reason i wrote that anthology of my grow is that i want to get in sync with u guys. I cant really go around and talk to ppl what i grow u get me ,so i was reading and reading till i found some noobz like me to share the amazing experience of growing indoor  Yes that noobz are u guys and im a noob in English to, like i said it is not my first Language. I know ive misspelled words but im trying my best here and i know u can get my point its not like i write on German ,its misspelled but stil English  now that we have that cleared i just wanna say Clouds that ive red all ur posts , i wanna share this experience and im looking forward to see will u guys accept me as a grower friend. I was a bit harsh on the first hand with Cloudz but that is just because ive red his every post, ur too Lady J, and from time to time he made me prety angry so i got that out on that way,hope u not mad ,its just that i do not want to see dying plants u get me , , i see we are all noobz and in need of colab. That is why im here, il folow ur project and keep u updated with mines if that is ok with u guys and ladies  

Cloudz u didnt answer my question?
Do u want me to help u with ur grow, if u dont il just skip that and continue working and updating u on mine( just cant see reason y u would not ) , if u do u can post some fresh pictures for me to see the condition of ur grow and what can be done to make that crop better, im a computer freak and went to Elecrotechniq school and College ,so im more than competent to help u with electric stuff u need to get that grow up and running again. Im afraid u got ur plants stressed and do not think that they dont remember that , ooo they do and they are not happy about that . So getting average results will now be much harder then it was. I think u need help and that we need to get working. Get me proper images of u grow setup and suroundings so i can devise a plan for u, if it works for u then u can send me some of that good seed u got there


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## Cloudz2600 (May 24, 2012)

Seeing as english isn't your first language I'll assume you don't know much about the culture either. Noob is typically a derogatory term. Beginner would be a better way to say it. Also saying you're more competent than me isn't a good way to show you mean the best. What's wrong with the pictures I have posted? I got my seeds from attitude seeds and shipping seeds international anyway would be a bit of a pain in the ass. You say you read my every post and yet in the second paragraph I stated multiple things I corrected that you said I didn't; in addition that to my reason for the light burn not being the reason you said. While I always welcome help the way you are going about it makes me not want your help. My NL is on node 4 an by BM is on node 3. I understand that the problems I've had will reduce my yield and expect below average results due to the issues I've had. I didn't expect more than a ounce from the start. 

My surroundings are just typical stuff. It's in my bedroom at the foot of my bed. If I have any questions I'll be sure to ask them in this thread, but I don't plan on doing a major overhaul of my grow space. I've pretty much copied Lady's grow besides her pot and that she has 3 relfectors with 1 light each(I think right?) while I have 2 reflectors with 2 lights each.

Also I just reread your first post a few things:
I don't need stories that involve people shitting, that contributes nothing.
I have extreme amounts of patience, a lot of people would of given up at this point with as many problems as I've had.
Considering that I fix every problem within a day or 2 I'm far from an asshole to my plants.
I didn't mess up my first grow, they were males...Not sure if you know or not, but you don't smoke the male sex of cannabis. I culled the plants because they had no use. They were around 2 1/2 feet tall.
Going to college for electronics does not really mean anything when it comes to growing plants. Plenty of people DIY(Do It Yourself) and plenty of people have had successful grows with minimal knowledge in technology. Growing plants is not some sort of science experiment. Keep the plants cool, keep the soil moist, give them enough light. That's all that's needed. My issues have nothing to do with technical engineering.
I would prefer you not update your grow in my journal. You can make your own and perhaps link me the thread and that would be fine.

Now ignoring what I hope is a troll...A slight update
I've gotten my ambient temps to go down to 75-78 and so the highest temp I've had in the past 2 days has been 81 degrees. I bought the ceiling fan today an maintenance will install it tomorrow. I had a bit of running around to do in addition to buying the fan so I'm going to buy the smaller fan that goes in the bin tomorrow @ walmart.


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## Lady.J (May 24, 2012)

I think I know where you are coming from Eside. I understand that you didn't mean to come off wrong even if what you said was a little harsh. Sprichst Du Deutsch? Ich spreche Deutsch aber ich spreche nicht sehr gut lol. Früher habe ich in Wiesbaden leben. Ich liebe und ich vermisse Deutschland!!

Lmao and I'll forgive you for calling me a noob because I admit, I am. Thanks for taking the time to read my grow, and I agree, it's good for us to get together and collab so we can help each other. 

And I think I am understanding that you are Deutsch (forgive if I am wrong), and one thing that I do miss about Germans is their brutal honesty. It's hard to get used to it at first as an American because we communicate differently in our culture, but I did feel where you are coming from with what you wrote. Hopefully we can all be cool and help each other out.


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## Lady.J (May 24, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Seeing as english isn't your first language I'll assume you don't know much about the culture either. Noob is typically a derogatory term. Beginner would be a better way to say it. Also saying you're more competent than me isn't a good way to show you mean the best. What's wrong with the pictures I have posted? I got my seeds from attitude seeds and shipping seeds international anyway would be a bit of a pain in the ass. You say you read my every post and yet in the second paragraph I stated multiple things I corrected that you said I didn't; in addition that to my reason for the light burn not being the reason you said. While I always welcome help the way you are going about it makes me not want your help. My NL is on node 4 an by BM is on node 3. I understand that the problems I've had will reduce my yield and expect below average results due to the issues I've had. I didn't expect more than a ounce from the start.
> 
> My surroundings are just typical stuff. It's in my bedroom at the foot of my bed. If I have any questions I'll be sure to ask them in this thread, but I don't plan on doing a major overhaul of my grow space. I've pretty sure copied Lady's grow besides her pot and that she has 3 relfectors with 1 light each(I think right?) while I have 2 reflectors with 2 lights each.
> 
> ...


I'm feeling you on this too...Germans used to rub me the wrong way a lot too, it actually is a part of their culture to be direct like that. I understand why you would feel the way you do because if it had been me, I probably would have flipped out and said some hateful shit. 

About my grow, I did have the 3 reflectors with one light each, but I just upgraded (made a new post). And I do want to see pics of how your babies are doing!!!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 24, 2012)

Look at Lady being the mediator lol. I'll take some pics when the lights come out in 2 hours or so. I have no idea where that stupid charger is so I'm going to use the grow lights as my lights instead of using the flash.


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## Lady.J (May 24, 2012)

lmao I was just thinking that hahahaha...but it seems like he didn't mean to be offensive though he definitely could have made a better choice of words...I didn't like when he called you an asshole either...but it means something different to them than it does to us. Our cuss words are a lot milder to europeans. They can openly use them at school, work, home...Eside, asshole in America (unless you are friends and joking) is almost like calling someone Hurensohn! Them are fighting words!!


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## eside (May 24, 2012)

i didnt just call u a noob , i caled him a noob to ,and me ...we are all noobs and that is why im here to be friends with u guys ,we are the same level...but cloudz is giving me some hard time, first thing that ive said when ive came is "how can i help u" , still i didnt get that pictures to try to help . nvm him , u have a grow to share to ? oh i dont spreache Deutsch , im willing to learn but them things take a while


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## Cloudz2600 (May 24, 2012)

Few things, I said the way you say things makes me not want your help. I didn't say I didn't want your help, only that the way you say things,if you are german this is understandable my uncles g/f is german so I sort of get that. Let's review what a journal is: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/journal, "adailyrecord,asofoccurrences,experiences,orobservations." I may not update daily, but I do it fairly often. I said don't post your journal in my journal in the nicest way I could think of. I even said you could link me your journal. I'm not a kid, you don't know how old I am. I've asked for help plenty of times in this thread(and gotten it) and you and lady are not the only 2 in here. In my very first post I asked questions, does that seem like something someone who wants to show of their growing skills would do? I haven't said anybody is wrong, nor have I said I haven't made any mistakes, quite the opposite! I've admitted to making plenty of mistakes. I haven't gone "ballisitic", but calmly refuted the points you made, such as my getting a fan because my plants got light burned(which is funny because I got the fans before the plants got burned).

I think like 2 days ago I even gave rep to the people in the thread who have helped me and thanked them. The reason I'm so annoyed at this point is because you tried to say everything I've done has been wrong, that I haven't asked for help, that I think everybody is retarded(which is obviously not true, because Lady and the others wouldn't of kept helping me). Like I said I will upload pictures when the lights come in in about 8-10 minutes.

@ Lady(or anyone else besides eside), am I totally off on this one or am I handling this in the correct way? I don't personally think I've said anything too mean to him and this point he seems to be more antagonistic than I do.

EDIT: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/525136-northern-lights-x-bb-auto-11.html, 10:26am I posted pictures of my bin. The only thing that has changed is the number of lights and the size of the pots. I'll ask for the second time: What about the pictures I posted is not sufficient?​


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## Cloudz2600 (May 24, 2012)

BM needs to be watered, I just checked.


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## Lady.J (May 24, 2012)

Lol ok this guy is just a straight up douche bag, my inner bad bitch is about to come out.... Yes, shit face, you did call me a noob...

**"I cant really go around and talk to ppl what i grow u get me ,so i was reading and reading till i found some noobz like me to share the amazing experience of growing indoor Yes that noobz are u guys and im a noob in English to, like i said it is not my first Language." 

"You guys" means more than one person, and since we were the only people you mentioned, you were talking about us. Not that I care, you're being a dick so I thought I would show you that you're wrong. 

**"If u don't want my help just say so."

Um he did say so actually.

**"i just left a link where u can see my grow and it will update it self from there ,no uploading pictures here just link to my grow which u do not have to click on nor it will do anything bad to ur journal,it would actually help by having references to other similar grow techniques but nvm ."

Lol no, you didn't just leave a link, you left a big ass paragraph, let me help you remember:

"i got it to my apartment and really didn't have any lights, on the windows of the apartment i have light only 3-4 hours a day . So i figured out its not going to do the job. What one can do in that situation ,no money, no light for my plant.... i went to WC to take a nice long dump and think what am i going to do . While load was on its way an idea started coming to me , and by the time u could hear big BANG of pay loud dumping i saw a small Neon light in my WC... that's it , there is my light problem is it was like 6-7 feet from the ground and sealed to the wall so i had to suspense my pot on computer cables and disassemble the Neon light(11W) so that the sanded white plastic reflector wont get in the way of light. There was not much light in that 11W so last thing i needed is something in between light and my plant . It worked, after about a week i've added a PC fan to it , i just suspend it on the neon lights with some computer cable . Before introduction of a fan ,she was all weak an would crumble under the weight of water ,after fan in a day she become strong. It was time for transplanting. I made my pot my self by cutting some plastic box. I made holes for water drainage and all that ,and try to suspend it on the Neon light like i did with smaller pot. It was mision impossible, to much weight of soil and water would break computer cables or neon light so i took a nice dump once again. Idea... make a structure from something a little bit stronger than cables and then hook it up with neon light and then place a pot on the supporting structure. This was a little bit more complicated to do with just things u can find in average apartment ( so the picture in a link below will tell that story). I was happy finishing transplanting and getting it back to its place under the Neon light, she was happy too an continued to grow . After a week more it was getting real big so i got some money and got me self some 42W CFL , after i got the light, i made a grow box in closet and that was 5 days ago, im in to my 3th week and u can see all that progress here( https://www.box.com/files/0/f/289652331 ), as she was doing well i updated her life support system a bit more for every good feedback she was giving me , now we have there CO2 generator , supplement CO2 generator ,air mixer ,climate control ,humidity control, air flow menagment ,supplement 20W 2700K CFL ,some nutes, rain water .... . , i have no measuring devices everything i do is measured in love and she appears to like it . It is my first grow,my first plant , my first box ,its a mystery seed but i can see now its mostly indica strain . If u need explenation on how i menage to do some things just ask ill be glad to answer .. NOW ILL TELL WHAT I THINK ABOUT UR GROW nuf with mine."

**"U can not act like an ashole to everyone telling u something that u dont like to hear. U act like open minded person, openly asking for an advice or opinion but when that happens u go ballistic on the poor guy tryin to help u"

He didn't act like an asshole to anyone. I thought he was actually considerate. You came on his thread calling him an asshole...and he didn't even call you a disrespectful bitch. I think that's pretty admirable. You're the only person who is saying that he is an asshole so it's actually inaccurate to say everyone...it's just you. All by yourself. 

**"u just wanna hear that u are a great grower ,that u have experience and best crop in history but its not happening m8 cuz u r not that guy, ure a kid begging for help in pretty strange way, by telling ppl they are wrong about something they said and judging by ur last post that something is pretty much everything ."

I'm not a psychologist, but it sounds like you really have some issues, and this seems a lot like projection. Whenever I have given him advice or have seen anyone giving him advice, he has always taken it and tried to make his grow better. What people did he tell they were wrong? Did you mean you? One person? lmao jesus dude really? Get the fuck out of here.

**"uve just put this jurnal on the forum to show off ur growing skills and to tell ppl how they are wrong about u and ur grow ,how uve done everything good and have no mistakes, anyone pointing u to ur mistake is just retarded,wright?"

He put up this thread because it's his first time and he clearly asked for help and advice more than once. I have not seen one time where he put that he didn't make any mistakes, he actually says that he made mistakes and then explains what he did to fix them. 

-"Prove me wrong by uploading fresh pictures of plants and surroundings so i can work my way on helping u,if u dont change ur attitude and continue being an ass to me i wont even go to trouble of posting u a fresh post where i tell u that im gone. Its up to u whats its gonna be?"

He said he doesn't want your help. Are you retarded or what? Is he supposed to come back groveling to you after the way you disrespectfully and irrationally came on his thread talking shit? Newsflash...nobody wants you here. We tried to be nice. Cloudz even tried to be understanding that you come from a different culture after you insulted him before you've even spoken with him...and then you come writing this shit? You're a loser and I'm quite sure that you suit the definition of asshole to a tee. Now maybe you will understand this better...FUCK OFF.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 24, 2012)

^How can I double "like" a post lol. Thank you Lady, I wasn't sure if it was just one big misunderstanding or if this guy was as much of an ass as he was saying I was.


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## Lady.J (May 24, 2012)

I have no problem sticking up for my friends! And if he comes back talking shit he's going to hear some more of my mouth.

That first pic is looking pretty good. I can see that it started to have an N deficiency but it looks like you stopped it. The second pic is the one that's recovering right? Can see the new growth looks healthy. I'm glad you didn't give up on it and kept it going. Which one is the NL by the way? The third one is looking good to go. I can't remember but did you over water not too long ago? Noticed that the leaves are slightly folded, same thing happened to mine and just had to wait it out and adjust the watering. I'm guessing that last one is one you saved too? You're better than me, I get discouraged too easily and would have gave up. I am happy to see they are still hanging in there. Are you able to make a video? I made a little channel on youtube to get a better feel of what the plants look like...maybe you should make one too! I might just talk on mine one of these days lol.


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## Lady.J (May 24, 2012)

What is the problem? You come here with all this negative disrespectful shit to say. I don't care if you call me a noob, shit like that doesn't bother me. He said he doesn't want you here, and you can't get the hint! You just keep on posting and making yourself look like an even bigger idiot! Are you hoping we're going to have a change of heart and be your friends? I don't think that's going to happen bud. "if u dont change ur attitude and continue being an ass to me i wont even go to trouble of posting u a fresh post where i tell u that im gone." Make due on your word and gtfo.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 24, 2012)

K...I'm gonna go ahead and same plainly that I don't want your help. You don't know how to communicate. 2 things right off the bat. I said it was in my bedroom on page 14 And I also linked to the page where I posted pictures of the grow room and its surrounding. You say we can put away the money and then u say I must have a Co2 generator, you have one you're gonna give me or that I can get for free? Have you really read my thread dude, I said the pots that I recently transplanted into will be the final pots and I posted pictures of the pots earlier. I'm not trying to "buy my way out of this mess", I'm simply fixing each problem and oh, surprise I need a fan, oh what a surprise people don't give fans away.

So again just to make sure, I do not want your help in my grow. You don't need to reply with a witty or snide remark. Just don't post in this thread again. If you post in this thread again I will report you.

EDIT: Simply explain to me what you saw on page 14 and my post at 10:26am. After that you can stop posting in my thread.


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## Lady.J (May 24, 2012)

By the way, saying a CO2 generator for a sterilite box is a must is fucking retarded.

EDIT: Even my noob ass knows that.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 24, 2012)

The Blue Mammoth is the one that has one side missing leaves, the other one is the 1st Northern Lights. Northern Lights is pictured first. I checked the 2nd NL that I put outside and it still hasn't popped its false leaves. Just a dud I guess. That makes 3 days inside(since it popped out of soil) and 3 days outside. As much as I want to start again with another NL I think I'll save it till I move.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 24, 2012)

*Sigh* I kindly asked you a question. The question was when you looked at the page I linked and my post at 10:26am what did you see? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_comprehension


I also told you that besides the question I asked not to post again or I would report you. Looks like someone didn't read the rules to this forum. As the starter of this thread I have the right to tell people not to post in this thread without my permission. You have not done anything except shit up what was a very helpful thread for me and others.

You seem to not be able to understand there is a difference between "people" and "you." Just to clarify I asked you to leave the thread eside and I want Lady and all others to continue to stay and post in this thread

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/1389-do-not-post-other-peoples.html


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## Cloudz2600 (May 24, 2012)

Well I already reported him. Any other subsequent post of his will get reported too.


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## Lady.J (May 24, 2012)

Good...and my bad for all the foul language on your thread. I know it might seem immature but I don't care...you were completely trying to be cool about it. It really strikes a nerve with me when I see someone belittling a cool person for no reason.


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## Lady.J (May 24, 2012)

eside said:


> i have much higher intelligence then one would think, my mother always knew it, but when i came out the most intelligent gun in the army of some 2000 guys is when i knew it to...



lol...I'm done.


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## potroastV2 (May 24, 2012)

heehee, "the most intelligent gun in the army." !!


Well, I guess they're making Smart Guns now!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 24, 2012)

The high tomorrow is supposed to be 89 and saturday is 93....I know who's staying inside. Dear summer, F*ck you

Aha just noticed all his post were deleted, thanks RIU!


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## Lady.J (May 25, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> The high tomorrow is supposed to be 89 and saturday is 93....I know who's staying inside. Dear summer, F*ck you
> 
> Aha just noticed all his post were deleted, thanks RIU!



Ouch, I have that same weather cloudz! And yes RIU, thank you!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 25, 2012)

Not really an update for the plants.

I got bored and decided to check out the Tude to see what the June promo is and the best way to get the most seeds I want and still get the most promos. The June promo obviously hasn't started yet and the UFOs will probably be different(I really want that Northern Lights Blue(berry) auto).

Total is 35.97 euro, which is just barely over the 35 euro needed for the 7 extra seeds you get for the promo. So basically I'm paying for 5 seeds and getting 10 for free! The kicker is I still have an AKR, La Diva, NLxBB,Pineapple Chunk and Critical Kush so I really don't need any seeds. It was a good way to kill the time though and if I did end up buying I'm pretty sure that's a great deal.

P.S The code "420" still works so you can get an additional discount without it messing up the promo(I did the same thing with the 420 promo).


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## Cloudz2600 (May 25, 2012)

The acu-rite temp gauge/meter/ w/e *has* to be wrong. The lights are off, the fans are on, the A/C is blowing and the therometer says its 76. The acu-rite says the temp inside the bin is 82. I put it on the floor of the bin in between both pots. I had it originally in front of the fan so I could easily check the lights, admittedly that may of given off cooler temps, but there's no way it's 81 when the ambient temp is 76 when the lights are off. Last night it was telling me 84-86(lights on). Not in denial so much as skeptical.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 25, 2012)

Just came back from wal-mart. Bought the 16 cell jiffy greenhouse for $6.50 and the 4 inch fan for $6.50 as well. I already put the fan in the bin sorry. Going to have to running with the timer so it will only turn on turning lights on. I have the PC fans as my main ventilation so they stay on 24/7. With the space I have and the how large the pots are compared to the fan I couldn't really get it to hit the actual plant like I wanted. So instead I put the fan in the middle of the bin and have it facing upwards, hopefully they will cool down the plants/light a little bit in addition to getting more air circulation. I'm content with 80-84F temps since I know the plants can survive that, but the ideal temp I'm looking for is 77-79F.

There was a 72 cell for $4.50 but the cells looked a lot smaller and going the instructions they required about a 1/4 of the water so I'm guessing they are in fact. Only gonna run 2-3 plants at a time anyway so I don't see me running out of these any time soon.

Plants are in week 3 or so and are starting to smell...not like weed or anything, but obviously not a normal plant smell ya know? Following this: https://www.rollitup.org/auto-flowering-strains/531344-autos-life-cycle.html would mean I'm about a week or so from pre-flowering. Not sure if I'm going to use nutes this run, maybe the last 4 weeks or so. There's plenty of fresh soil from the transplant.

I'll likely make 1 more update on the temp after an hour after the lights come on. So in 4 hours or so. I may just edit the post I may about the acu-rite.

In an unrelated note: Razer Naga>that mouse you have


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## Cloudz2600 (May 25, 2012)

Ceiling fan is a bit of a pain to install by myself and maintenance didn't come out today. Gonna try and see if I can get one of them to help me tomorrow, otherwise it's kind of impossible. If I can't get any help to install it I think I'll just return it and maybe get a window fan or something to help with the air circulation in my room. The high today was 92F. The temp inside the bin after I put the small fan was around 81-82F, ambient temps around 75-79). The fucking light clamp somehow got loose from the detergant bottle and landed on the NL! I can't catch a break. Was on the plant for maybe a minute or so and then I noticed. It sucked the life out of one of the parts of a fan leaf. After I got it secure again I went and bought some gorilla tape. Needless to say it's stayed in place, that stuff is crazy.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 27, 2012)

NL's growth has made a seriously jump. It's on node 4 or 5. A new set of full leaves maybe every 2 days. BM has just started growing new nodes so it looks like it's finally shaken off the stress from the light burn. I switched out a 26w 2700k for a 42w 6500k. Today's high was 94 so whenever the a/c wasn't on(i.e whenever I left the apartment or went to sleep) the temp jumped. The temp meter says the high was 86F and the low was 79. High is going to be 90F tomorrow and then it drops back down 85 for the next few days. Looks like I'm going to return the ceiling fan, it looks like I need a power screwdriver or something. Worried that with all the movement I won't be able to tighten the main screws tight enough by hand. Not sure if it's better to get an oscillating fan or a window fan for my room, any opinions?

Don't think I'm going to buy that extra PC fan, but whenever this harvest(if I get that far) is done I'll go ahead and make myself another hole for an additional exhaust, take the intake fan, make it an exhaust fan and leave the hole that was for the intake as a passive intake. Then again I won't have to pay electricity in the new place so I may just set it to 75F all day every day. I think 2 PC fans and 1 4" fan inside should be enough.


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## Lady.J (May 27, 2012)

Passive intake sounds good to me, that's the route I went and it's working so far. Originally made an intake of 4x4, but I used duct tape to make it closer to 2x2 since passive intake works more effectively when it's half the size of the outtake. Looking forward to your next update


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## Cloudz2600 (May 27, 2012)

https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/

Do you see any problem with just extending the exhaust hole and sticking the second fan right below it. I sorta made the exhaust hole in the top middle of the bin. I think in one of the threads I made one guy said have the intake in the opposite direction of the exhaust.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 27, 2012)

Decided to go ahead and make the extra hole anyway, took me like 5 minutes. Straight lines are my antithesis, mainly because it's hard to change direction when cutting with a knife. I made the intake hole 1/2 the size of the exhaust, although if I'm running 2 fans at 4" each(8" total) shouldn't the size of my intake be 4"?

Depending on how the temps are I may switch out some 26w for 42's

Should I have the exhaust fans facing toward the window or away from? I know the intake is supposed to be opposite of that and I was thinking it would be best to have the intake facing toward so if I open the window during the night(which I usually do) it would draw in cool air. There's maybe 1 1/2 feet of space between the wall and the bin.


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## Lady.J (May 27, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/
> 
> Do you see any problem with just extending the exhaust hole and sticking the second fan right below it. I sorta made the exhaust hole in the top middle of the bin. I think in one of the threads I made one guy said have the intake in the opposite direction of the exhaust.


can you take a pic? I'm not sure what you're talking about. How did the temps and humidity react after the change? I believe you would want your intake to be 4inches if you have 8 inch exhaust. I don't know if it matter to have the exhaust facing toward the window or not, the important part is the stale, hot air is leaving the bins. It would probably be a good idea to have the window toward the intake though for the fresh cool air.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 27, 2012)

Here ya go. 2nd pic of with tape on(2" hole), 3rd pic is with tape off(original 4" hole).

Also I think it may be a bit hotter in my bedroom than in the living room. I took the acu-rite out and put it on top of the bin. Gonna leave it there for 1 hour for lights off and then 1 hour for lights on. It was telling me it's 81F inside the bin with the lights off.


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## Lady.J (May 27, 2012)

I'd say leave the tape off...you can always experiment and check the acu-rite with it on for a while and then with it off, but my guess would be that it's most effective without the tape.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 27, 2012)

As far the the positioning of the fans, it shouldn't make that much of a difference that I stacked them as opposed to having the side by side right? Do you have pics of your bin with your 2 exhaust fans? Linking the page would do if you dont have the pics. It helps to use RIU's picture manager because it saves the pictures to the server.


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## Lady.J (May 27, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> As far the the positioning of the fans, it shouldn't make that much of a difference that I stacked them as opposed to having the side by side right? Do you have pics of your bin with your 2 exhaust fans? Linking the page would do if you dont have the pics. It helps to use RIU's picture manager because it saves the pictures to the server.


I don' believe it makes a difference and my box makes do with only one exhaust fan...







(would have linked to thread page but I'm too lazy to go thru the pages of my grow)


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## Cloudz2600 (May 27, 2012)

Ambient temp is 79-80, temp inside the bin is 84 with 2 42w CFLs and 2 26w. A little higher than I'd like, but 4 degrees higher than ambient isn't bad.


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## Lady.J (May 28, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Ambient temp is 79-80, temp inside the bin is 84 with 2 42w CFLs and 2 26w. A little higher than I'd like, but 4 degrees higher than ambient isn't bad.


Nope, and to be honest, cannabis does just fine in this environment. Doesn't need to be the perfect temp for it to yield something fierce . I just saw this guy's grow recently where his temps stayed around 92ish and his plants looked awesome, 2 ounces off one plant. Not bad!


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## Cloudz2600 (May 29, 2012)

Found my charger ^_^ Picture time

The larger plant is the NL, it's also the one with more light burns. The plant keep growing into the lights. The BM has no new light burns, though I did catch it just about to get one when I was taking pictures. Not going to mess with the leaves any. I give *light* tugs on the burns leaves to make sure they are still attached. Much easier to adjust the height of the lights with tape. I have the CFLs about 1 1/2 inches from the plants, but I suppose 2-3 inches away won't hurt that much since the plant isn't that big yet. I'll prolly start LSTing in about a week or so. Waiting for it to get tall enough to where I can have the tip of the plant touch the edge of the pot.

I tried taking off the reflectors and unless I'm doing it wrong, I can't. It doesn't look exactly like your's Lady. No real need to take em off now so I'm not in too much of a rush to do so. I may add another 42w to the reflector above the BM.

Excuse the spot that lacks any reflective material, I noticed that yesterday. I'll fix it when it's lights off today. I have plenty of windshield reflector leftover.

The new NL is outside and it JUST popped it's first true leaf, yes leaf as in just 1.


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## Lady.J (May 29, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Found my charger ^_^ Picture time
> 
> The larger plant is the NL, it's also the one with more light burns. The plant keep growing into the lights. The BM has no new light burns, though I did catch it just about to get one when I was taking pictures. Not going to mess with the leaves any. I give *light* tugs on the burns leaves to make sure they are still attached. Much easier to adjust the height of the lights with tape. I have the CFLs about 1 1/2 inches from the plants, but I suppose 2-3 inches away won't hurt that much since the plant isn't that big yet. I'll prolly start LSTing in about a week or so. Waiting for it to get tall enough to where I can have the tip of the plant touch the edge of the pot.
> 
> ...



3-4 inches is more ideal...burning your plants stresses them a lot. Many people over emphasize how close CFLs need to be, 1.5 inches is def too close! It is better to have your plants a little bit stretchy than to have them burned, the damaged leaves will never recover. Did you trying to screw the reflectors off? I wasn't able to take mine straight off. I had to twist them counter clockwise. I am glad they are growing though, they are def getting bigger.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 29, 2012)

Yea I tried, the reflector is divided into a top part where i screw the light bulb in, the reflector in the middle and the base of the socket. The top part is too big to take out through the hole in the reflector and the male part of the cord is too large to fit through the base of the socket's hole. I raised the lights to 3 or so inches and switched out a 26w 2700k for a 42w 6500k. Also fixed the gap in the bin that didn't have any reflective material. You can't tell by the pic, but the lights are maybe an inch below the fans. Not really concerned with temps anymore, but I imagine the closer the fans are to the lights the cooler the temp gets.

I think I'm at day 26 or so so a lot smaller than I'd like to be, but flowering and the stretch should be starting pretty soon. Gonna try to do my best not to fuck with the girls except for watering and raising the lights.


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## BladeRunner1983 (May 30, 2012)

Great job. Your set up is really inspiring to those looking to start out. Also like the way you have structured your journal as alot of journal's are'nt as well updated as yours. 

I also started same NL strain as you 10 days ago, along with 3 other strains. NL is by far looking the best, i did damage the roots a little during transplant to 11ltr tubs this morning, but hoping it wont set it back too much.This is also my first grow and looking at progress so far wish i had started alot sooner.

Your plants look great to me, maybe 2 weeks ahead of me which is great for me to keep an eye on your journal incase i encounter any problems with the NL. 

My other strains are Top69, auto Russian, auto Kush (1 of each) i smoked the russian before and that was ace, top69 is fairly new and dont know anything about it really. Looking forward to northern lights the mostest.

Good luck with your grow and look forward to seeing how your babies do.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 30, 2012)

Thank's Blade, it's posts like yours and Lady's that keep me doin this. Otherwise I'm sure I would of just stopped weeks ago. Since that was your first post I'm guessing you haven't made a journal yet. It's never too late to start and you're still in the seedling stage so you aren't that far into your grow. That's the one thing I don't like about autos, any damage you to do them can't be recovered like photoperiod plants by vegging them longer since they're on a time schedule.

Yea the NLxBB are very hardy, surprised it's taken all my abuse and still had a decent growth rate.

You mind posting pics? I'm interesting in seeing a new NL that hasn't been burned by heat, light and nutes.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 30, 2012)

Update:

It's really hard to smell the plants, when you sleep in your room. My roommate came in and told me my room smelled like straight weed lol. Curious to see how "bad" it gets when the girls start flowering. Humidity has been 55(high) to 49(low) and temps have been 84(high) to 78(low). I've got like 2 ounces left of that yeast, I noticed a benefit of the extra co2 when I was in the closet, but how much will it help if I'm in a cab? I'm guessing with all the air I'm adding in and venting out it won't really do anything. 

Oh I noticed that the 3 holes on the top where I feed the lights in through are actually sucking in air. I held a lighter to them to check. Even though it's hotter air that's being vented in I think more ventilation is good.

Like I said before stealth isn't that much of an issue, but is there anyway I could get maybe something scented in front of the exhaust fans? Can't do a candle and while I do have this awesome scented spray they use on airplanes(yes it's *that* "new airplane smell") I'd prefer something that requires less management. So basically something that doesn't have to be lit, but I don't have to keep spraying it, because if I'm gone I obviously can't spray it. Just in case you were thinking of plug ins the outlet is closest to my bed while the exhaust is facing away. Also the outlet is about 4 inches below the bottom exhaust. Although...I could get an extension cord and hang it off the bin I can't figure out a way it wouldn't hit the fans.

Oh not really an update for y'all, more so for me: I'm going to water the plants today during lights off. I kind of want them to go a day more, so I know what a dry pot feels like, but it's been 2-3 days already.


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## Lady.J (May 30, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Update:
> 
> It's really hard to smell the plants, when you sleep in your room. My roommate came in and told me my room smelled like straight weed lol. Curious to see how "bad" it gets when the girls start flowering. Humidity has been 55(high) to 49(low) and temps have been 84(high) to 78(low). I've got like 2 ounces left of that yeast, I noticed a benefit of the extra co2 when I was in the closet, but how much will it help if I'm in a cab? I'm guessing with all the air I'm adding in and venting out it won't really do anything.
> 
> ...


You could get some ona gel, it supposedly pretty good at covering up odor. Or try hanging a car air freshener in front of the exhaust, get some glade plug-ins going around your room. And lightly spray febreeze on top of your blanket every morning.


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## Lady.J (May 30, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Thank's Blade, it's posts like yours and Lady's that keep me doin this. Otherwise I'm sure I would of just stopped weeks ago. Since that was your first post I'm guessing you haven't made a journal yet. It's never too late to start and you're still in the seedling stage so you aren't that far into your grow. That's the one thing I don't like about autos, any damage you to do them can't be recovered like photoperiod plants by vegging them longer since they're on a time schedule.
> 
> Yea the NLxBB are very hardy, surprised it's taken all my abuse and still had a decent growth rate.
> 
> You mind posting pics? I'm interesting in seeing a new NL that hasn't been burned by heat, light and nutes.


I'm glad you didn't quit! I like hearing about your plants, and learn by reading about how you're managing your grow. Don't mind giving you support


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## Cloudz2600 (May 31, 2012)

Ah right ona gel I forgot about that stuff. I've seen it online, but any idea what type of store sells it so I could possibly just pick it up? Car fresheners is a good idea too, light weight and still strong smelling.


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## Lady.J (May 31, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Ah right ona gel I forgot about that stuff. I've seen it online, but any idea what type of store sells it so I could possibly just pick it up? Car fresheners is a good idea too, light weight and still strong smelling.


I saw some at a hydro shop that I just discovered is in my town. Not sure where else is a good place to get some.


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## Cloudz2600 (May 31, 2012)

So I bought a 3 pack of New Car scented car fresheners for $2.50. I put 2 in front of the fan. 20 minutes later the entire room *strongly* smells of "new car" lol. Maybe I'll just use 1, I like the smell though and supposedly they last a long time. I wish I had a hydro store in my city. Closest one is an hour away.

Called Feit today and they're going to send me another 42w bulb. I should get it in 2-3 weeks they said. I think I may switch out a 26w 2700k for a 42w. I want to follow the 100w per plant rule, but since I only have room for 2 reflectors unless I get another y splitter the max I see me doing is 84 per. That being said the area about 2 feet long(i roughly measure 22") and the pots are 2-3 inches apart so maybe some light from the 42w on the other plant's reflector is hitting the plant. Right now I'm running 2 6500k 42w, 1 26w 2700k and a 42w 2700k. The plants are starting to stink and I'm in week 4 so I'm guessing this is pre-flowering. I probably need to switch to more 2700k, but the other's are 26w. Should I go ahead and do that or just stay with the higher wattage bulbs? I have an extension cord that can hold 1 bulb and I have a light stand clamp that can hold one as well, but I don't see where I can put the light clamp; the extension cord can be held using the reflector's light clamp if I reattach it(and find out where I put it).

What else...Temps are fine, humidity is fine, BM is starting to grow and the NL is starting to develop its side branches. Going to start the LST probably on Monday. It looks like the tip of the plant can just barely touch the edge of the pot so by Monday it should be able to easily. BM looks like another week or so until it's ready for training. I really wish I could top it, but there's really no time for it to recover.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 1, 2012)

Nothing new, tried some idea at getting this light clamp to work in the bin. I managed to get it on the bottom facing upwards, but the reflector makes most of the light just go directly up. Which is great...except the plants are to the sides. Figured while I had the bin open I'd take some pictures. I want to find a way to get some light on the bottom of the plants so I can get both the top and bottom nodes some light. I have some light socket to outlet plugs I can use and I do have an extra surge protector in addition to the extension cord. Can't see the surge protector+26w light bulb reaching to the tip of the pot from the bottom of the bin though. I might be forced to buy 2 y splitters just to add 2 lights.

Obviously the larger one is the Northern Lights while the smaller one is the Blue Mammoth. Not bad for 28 days(NL) and 25 days(BM) considering all the problems I think.

P.S. C'mon other people! As much as I love Lady I'd like to hear from you too! Opinions, suggestions, pics of your grows if you've started fairly close to mine, etc.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 1, 2012)

100% unrelated. I caved and scooped up all the kief I had from my grinders. I usually do that inbetween purchases so it only made about 1/2 a bowl. Still though, 1/2 a bowl of kief is at least a regular bowl ^_^ Well...I made it 31 days at least lol


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## doobietime420 (Jun 2, 2012)

really glad to see an autoflower grow. im growing 5 big bang,1 critical auto, and a white widow. im at 4 days now. keep up the post and any advise would be greatly appreciated


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 2, 2012)

Yea sure thing man, you gonna make a journal? I haven't really done any research for outdoors, but it can't be harder than managing an indoor grow.


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## Lady.J (Jun 2, 2012)

Indoor is easy compared to outdoor....when you factor in the sun, which can be potent as hell depending where you live, and also bugs. I had tried to throw some plants outside when I first moved to where I live now...they were dead within hours lol. I'm sure there's a way I could have grown them here, but they definitely needed to be in shade and maybe I put them out to young...but damn, hours??? Crazy! Then I was scared to touch them because this crazy looking spider decided to use them as part of it's web lol. I'm super scared of spiders...especially ones that can jump.


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## doobietime420 (Jun 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Yea sure thing man, you gonna make a journal? I haven't really done any research for outdoors, but it can't be harder than managing an indoor grow.


yea man ill probably start a journal when they are about 2 weeks old


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 2, 2012)

Yea I don't mess with spiders either lol. The basil and mint I'm growing took pretty well to the outside. The mint just blew up after it got done adjusting to the heat. I like growing indoors more though, bugs being the main reason.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 2, 2012)

Added a 26w in the middle of the bin. It's about 1 1/2 inches from both pots. Puts me at 178w total. Quick question about adding nutrients. I have Jack's Classic Blossom Booster and I need to water the plant tomorrow. Since I transplanted about a week ago I'm guessing the soil still has some nutrients in it. Fox Farm says the soil has sufficient nutrients for the first 3 weeks. Should I just keep using plain water or would it be beneficial to add 1/2 strength(1/8 tsp) fertilizer to the water. Obviously I'm a bit afraid of burning the plants again.


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## Lady.J (Jun 2, 2012)

I would use plain water. It is better to wait a week and start to notice the faint tinges of a potential N deficiency than to nute burn! Are you open to trying something a little different? Maybe you are willing to add liquid fish fertilizer to your waterings. I've been doing a watering cycle of fox farm watering x fish ferts watering x reg water watering, repeat. Fish ferts won't burn your plant and does tons of different beneficial things for your plant that significantly help it grow, including ample amount of nitrogen. Mixed with seaweed is even better. Just ordered a bottle from advanced nutrients through amazon, was like $10.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 2, 2012)

Oh I just want to use the fertilizer I bought. I've been using it for my other plants though. I had bought it when I planned to grow normal cannabis instead of autoflowers. I would of had time to let the nutrients in the soil be used up then. I'll check out the fish fert. $10 sounds good for an experiment, got a link?


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## foreverflyhi (Jun 2, 2012)

Yo wat up cloudz I'm actually currently growing a nlxbb auto and wow I'm surprised on how dank it is, check it on my signature. Keep up the good work homie!


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## Lady.J (Jun 2, 2012)

http://www.amazon.com/Organic-Neptunes-Harvest-Seaweed-Fertilizer/dp/B0012PWRTO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1338693803&sr=8-2

Just started getting into looking at all the different things that you can add besides "nutes" that benefit your plant. Ordered this Liquid Karma stuff, here is the description:_ Liquid Karma&#8482; 0.1-0.1-0.5 represents a significant break through in plant nu tri tion. This is be cause it contains a full complement of metabolically active organic compounds not found in regular plant foods or supplements. These unique compounds are absorbed immediately and act as regulatory signals, activators or catalysts to produce synchronized and accelerated growth under all conditions. Liquid Karma&#8482; functions as a growth engine because its high metabolic activity produces a large amount of energy, which is immediately transformed to growth. It contains fermented compost, Amino Acids, vitamins, plant extracts, Humic Acid, Seaweed Extract and carbohy-drates.
_You just add it to the nutes you already feed with. Heard it can increase production / yield up to 30%. Going to test it out and for myself


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 2, 2012)

$7 shipping. These people are crazy charging 80% of the cost of the item for shipping. I never understood that. I wish amazon prime worked with all vendors. I think I'll try that, may look around for a cheaper price though. 

Any thoughts about running a surge protector through a surge protector? Like I said before I have 2 light bulb socket to outlet adaptors and I want more lighting. I *could* tape the protector to one of the walls of the bin and run 2 26w bulbs on it for side lighting. Just not sure how well that's going to work electricity wise. It's a 15 amp circuit so I'm not going over that(I think), but I've no idea about running so much from 1 wall outlet.

EDIT: Actually I could run the lights 24/7 and just plug the surge protector into the the wall directly. It's a 2 socket outlet and right now I just have the timer and the power supply for the PC fans plugged in. The fans run 24/7 anyway. I tell other people 20/4 is best for autoflowers though lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 2, 2012)

foreverflyhi said:


> Yo wat up cloudz I'm actually currently growing a nlxbb auto and wow I'm surprised on how dank it is, check it on my signature. Keep up the good work homie!


Dude that looks fuckin awesome. So many colors!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 3, 2012)

Update: The extension cord had 3 outlets, 2 on one side and 1 on another. Don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, but I just put another light bulb on the opposite side. Now I've got 4 lights hitting the tops of the plants and 2 lights hitting the bottom/middle. That puts me at 195w and around 13,000 lumens(per square feet right?)! I don't think I'll add any more lights except for when/if my Feit replacement bulb comes in; although if they send me the exact same bulb it's going to be a 6500k, which I won't be needing during flowering, already using 2.

Gonna start my LST today too. This will be my first time LSTing. When I messed around with the male bagseed all I did was top, FIM and super crop. Any tips? It seems pretty simple. I'll be using pipe cleaners. I'll take pictures of everything when I go water the girls today.

Not sure about this weather lol. 2-3 days ago it was the low was 77F now it's 63.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 3, 2012)

Alright, this was my first attemp at LSTing. I decided to try it on the Blue Mammoth as well. For whatever reason RIU posts my pictures in the opposite order that I upload them. I wanted to bend the plants a bit more, but seeing as the was my first attempt and I almost uprooted the Blue Mammoth(I saw like 2 roots) I decided to play it say. The top of the plants are still at a 90 degree angle so I don't think I did a bad job. Just wondering how much it helped. I waited till I watered the plants because I read that plants are are bendable when they have fresh water flowering through the stems.


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## Lady.J (Jun 3, 2012)

Looking better cloudz! Much much better!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 3, 2012)

I just noticed that the pipe cleaners are on the start of each node. Would that mess up bud development? I couldn't figure out how to pull it down without the pipe cleaners stopping at where the next set of leaves start. and thanks ^_^ Oh yea I noticed pistils on the Blue Mammoth and alternating nodes on the Northern Lights.

Oh yea and I tucked giant fan leaf in pic 6 down and I LST'd the top on the right in pic 3.


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## Lady.J (Jun 3, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I just noticed that the pipe cleaners are on the start of each node. Would that mess up bud development? I couldn't figure out how to pull it down without the pipe cleaners stopping at where the next set of leaves start. and thanks ^_^ Oh yea I noticed pistils on the Blue Mammoth and alternating nodes on the Northern Lights.
> 
> Oh yea and I tucked giant fan leaf in pic 6 down and I LST'd the top on the right in pic 3.


I think your pipe cleaners will be ok...after all, as time goes by, the bottom of your plant doesn't receive much light, doubt they'd be significant buds...the new tops you'll create will make up for it. You noticed pistils...are you 12/12 yet? So happy that things are going smoother for you!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm growing autoflowers. I don't have to go 12/12. They flower based on time ^_^ Added bonus is I don't have to worry about light leaks. And while that's true Lady won't I be continuing to LST the real top of the plant as it grows, Not so much concerned for the bottom nodes, but more so about the buds growing through the pipe cleaner's little hairs. Although I think I read somewhere that pipe cleaners were good to use because it was less likely to cut the stem so it can't be that bad.


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## Lady.J (Jun 3, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I'm growing autoflowers. I don't have to go 12/12. They flower based on time ^_^ Added bonus is I don't have to worry about light leaks. And while that's true Lady won't I be continuing to LST the real top of the plant as it grows, Not so much concerned for the bottom nodes, but more so about the buds growing through the pipe cleaner's little hairs. Although I think I read somewhere that pipe cleaners were good to use because it was less likely to cut the stem so it can't be that bad.


You'll have to excuse me...I'm kind of tipsy and didn't read your original post about the pipe cleaners right. It's better to have them between nodes rather than directly on a node, for some reason I was thinking you were talking about the bottom-most nodes. I've had one too many corona's! This is a rare weekend for me, been pretty much tipsy the past couple days. Celebrating a good pay check . Completely forgot you were growing autoflowers too! Thought about trying them, but heard some people saying they weren't as potent...then again, they might have just been elitists. You'll have to tell me what you think


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm gonna have to say they're elitist. If you wanna go by thc % autoflowers can range from low to high just like photoperiod and if you go by testimonials, well there wouldn't be a autoflower section if people didn't think they were worth growing. Only downside I really see is there's so many different photoperiod strains as opposed to autoflower, but that's just because autoflowers are still new to the market. Dinafem in the past month or so just released like 8 more autoflowers though, lookin at the white widow one. 

Tried to wiggle them down a bit. On some of them I had to go up a little bit and it bunched up some of the branches to the main node. Lights just came on so we'll see how the girls respond.


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## Lady.J (Jun 3, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I'm gonna have to say they're elitist. If you wanna go by thc % autoflowers can range from low to high just like photoperiod and if you go by testimonials, well there wouldn't be a autoflower section if people didn't think they were worth growing. Only downside I really see is there's so many different photoperiod strains as opposed to autoflower, but that's just because autoflowers are still new to the market. Dinafem in the past month or so just released like 8 more autoflowers though, lookin at the white widow one.
> 
> Tried to wiggle them down a bit. On some of them I had to go up a little bit and it bunched up some of the branches to the main node. Lights just came on so we'll see how the girls respond.



Hmm, maybe I will give them a try for myself one day.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 3, 2012)

Not sure if I'm just worrying for no reason, but I think I may remove the main pipe cleaner. Just looking at it and I can't see buds developing properly with the branches bunched up or the pipe cleaner covering the main stem. I never tried it, but when I was growing my bagseed I watched a video of a guy taping the tip of a large fan leaf to the put. He said since you're likely to cut off the tips of the leafs(why?) taping them won't really matter. Also it puts little stress on the actual stem. Only downside I'm guessing it that it would be hard to tape the smaller leaves that don't reach the edge of the pot.

Quick googling gave me the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtbYCVivYL0

EDIT: I decided to go with the tape method and got rid of all the pipe cleaners except for the counter tie on the Northern Lights. I didn't have any scotch tape like the video recommended, only electrical and gorilla, I used gorilla tape. I'm going to keep using pipe cleaners on the Blue Mammoth to see which is more effective/less harmful. I figured with the pipe cleaners I have better control over what I want to pull down, but as you can see the tape method pulled the plant down pretty well.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 3, 2012)

Fuck, fuck fuck! Not sure if it happened when I was putting the tape on or when I was taking the pipe cleaners off, but I snapped the stem! I taped it right away so I don't have any pics, but it was pretty clean. Maybe a millimeter of it didn't break off. Was the top 2 nodes when had 4 stems branching off, which had an extra node to each of them, so like 8 possible nodes. I guess I'll know the damage in about 12-24 hours. This is another reason photoperiods are better. I can't make a clone out of the broken stem.


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## Lady.J (Jun 3, 2012)

Damn!!! I'm sure you know now, but you gotta ease on those stems, bit by bit. Hopefully the tape will let it heal up...


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 3, 2012)

Yea I think it happened when I was trying to get the tape off the pipe cleaners. That gorilla tape is super sticky. I was pretty careful when I was putting the tape on the leaf.


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## Lady.J (Jun 3, 2012)

I think I saw the tape method you are talking about...but only saw it done with scotch tape. Well you live and learn! Have seen a lot of people recover a plant with tape so going to keep fingers crossed for you.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 4, 2012)

Well the Blue Mammoth is fine and took the LST pretty well. The bottom nodes are all popping up. Below the break all the nodes on the Northern Lights are doing well too. On the bright side I'm glad I only decided to tie down the top 2 nodes. I'm spritzing the top of the northern lights about every 4-6 hours. I figure the longer I can keep the plant semi-alive the better chance I have of it reattaching itself...It's not looking too good, but the death is a slow one. I cut off 2 branches that hadn't developed nodes and were just fan leaves. So it's the main stem and 2 branches that each have a node. If it dies it dies, like I said growth below the break is still fine albeit slowed down a *little *bit. I have a few more weeks of pre-flowering until buds are supposed to develop.

Probably on friday(just so it's easy to remember) I'm going to start using 1/8 tsp of Jack's Classic All purpose(20-20-20). The full strength calls for 1/4 cup per gallon and the measuring cup they gave me has the lowest measurement as 1/4 so I'll more or less be eye-balling it. I'll be sure to go under 1/8 than over. Whenever I see actual buds develop I'll switch over to by 10-30-20.

Last night was just a bad night. The acu-rite says the temp got up to 93F...Which is just weird as it was 77 outside and I had the window completely open. Temp right now is 84-86. I got a small(8-10") desk fan and put it in front of the passive intake. Temp drops about 5 degrees when it's on max and it blows the plants pretty well. I put it on max when I'm not in the room. Otherwise I keep it on low or just off.

I think for my next grow(confirmed for La Dive and Afgan Kush Ryder) I'll "invest" in some wire or buy some wire hangers. Besides that I really don't see anything else I need&#8203;. Till next time ^_^


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 7, 2012)

Watered the plants today with a little bit of 20-20-20. BM's bottom and side nodes are starting to pop up and everything below the break for the Northern Lights is doing very well. Not sure if the top is healing or just dying slowly. I've noticed the 2 newest fan leaves getting very thin, but the 2 main fan leaves are still pretty wide. I mist them as often as I remember, but I try not to mess with the bin too much. I think I'll wait till monday or so to remove the tape. I figure if it's dead then it's just absorbing light that could be used by still living parts of the plants.

Needless to say I'm a bit scared to LST anymore than I have lol. If the top part of the Northern Lights recovers I'll start LSTing about every time I water(2-3 days it seems). 

I think the reason I had such a high temp a few days ago was because I had the desk fan touching the bin. The fan moves air pretty decently, but the center of the fan is a giant logo(great design guys...) so I think it was blocking off more air than it moved in. I moved it back maybe 4-5 inches yesterday and temps have stayed pretty much from 82F to 84F. Also figured out I can manipulate the humidity by placing the fan closer and/or increasing the power. Lowest recorded is 43%.

Being the stubborn person I am I haven't returned the fan yet. I got an electrician company coming out on friday to install it for me. Pretty cheap too, only $30. The main thing that's killing me, and I notice that the living room is much cooler because of it, is that my room has no air circulation. Hopefully with the fan installed it will be much cooler and I don't have to have the window open all the time.

I'll probably post pics Friday of the fan(just cause) and the plants.


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## Lady.J (Jun 7, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Watered the plants today with a little bit of 20-20-20. BM's bottom and side nodes are starting to pop up and everything below the break for the Northern Lights is doing very well. Not sure if the top is healing or just dying slowly. I've noticed the 2 newest fan leaves getting very thin, but the 2 main fan leaves are still pretty wide. I mist them as often as I remember, but I try not to mess with the bin too much. I think I'll wait till monday or so to remove the tape. I figure if it's dead then it's just absorbing light that could be used by still living parts of the plants.
> 
> Needless to say I'm a bit scared to LST anymore than I have lol. If the top part of the Northern Lights recovers I'll start LSTing about every time I water(2-3 days it seems).
> 
> ...



Hope the NL pulls through for you....think it's a good idea to wait until Monday. Even if the top dies, you'll probably still be able to salvage the plant so all isn't lost! 

Do you live in a place with high humidity? Humidity is killing me in my box right now. Might have to buy a mini dehumidifier. 

I think the fan will improve your circulation a lot...might even get some better temps going (even though they're not bad to begin with). Can help out with the humidity too...hopefully lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 7, 2012)

Yea I live in the south east so high humidity is pretty normal. It's also been raining the past week. I kind of want higher humidity while the top is healing, but I'm unable to get anything over 55%. So I'm forced or spray the top. Humidity is actually good until buds start developing. Now as far as humidity in my room I'm not so sure. I think the last time I took the acu-rite outside the bin it said something like 60%.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 7, 2012)

While I was spraying the Northern Lights I noticed 2 leaves yellowing. I don't think it would be nute burn simply because that would of been WAY too quick of a response I think and so solution was so diluted.


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## Lady.J (Jun 7, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Yea I live in the south east so high humidity is pretty normal. It's also been raining the past week. I kind of want higher humidity while the top is healing, but I'm unable to get anything over 55%. So I'm forced or spray the top. Humidity is actually good until buds start developing. Now as far as humidity in my room I'm not so sure. I think the last time I took the acu-rite outside the bin it said something like 60%.


Yea I know humidity is good, but not when it's like mine where's it's up to 80% at night! That's high for veg even...going to have to pick up damp rid or something.



Cloudz2600 said:


> While I was spraying the Northern Lights I noticed 2 leaves yellowing. I don't think it would be nute burn simply because that would of been WAY too quick of a response I think and so solution was so diluted.


Since those are bottom leaves and yellowing from the outside in, would say Nitrogen deficiency. That can happen when you're nutes are even across the board (like 20-20-20) or small Nitro ratio compared to the other nutes. Nitrogen is the main nute desired by your plants during veg, so you want it to have a higher ratio in your ferts. I'm using fox farm 6-4-4 (for veg) but I heard something like 4-3-1 is better.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 7, 2012)

Wait you're saying my using nutes caused a deficiency? I get that I would have more of the Potassium and Potash in comparison, but wouldn't I see have more Nitrogen than what I had before I used nutes? Some guy in https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/534483-normal-yellowing-plant-deficiency-nute.html#post7537209 said that it was ph. Which I find weird because I've been using the same filtered water left our for 24 hours+.

I totally agree more Nitrogen is better than a even amount of nutes. I think the only Jack's Classic that has more is the Orchid Special(30-10-10). Amazon wants $7 for 8 ounces while I paid $8 for 1.5 pounds for the 2 I have.


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## Lady.J (Jun 7, 2012)

The wrong ratio can def give you a deficiency....having too much of a nutrient can cause other nutrients to lock out. It's really really important to have the right ratio. It s unlikely that it is Ph, and I only say that because too often people have a problem and everyone is quick to say Ph. It makes sense that it is the nutes because they aren't the proper ratio! Use this as comparison...5500k spectrum CFL will grow cannabis right, but not efficiently because cannabis absorbs 6500k much better. Just that difference in spectrum determines whether your crop will be sub par or something worth mentioning. Same thing with nutes. Give them the wrong ratio and you leaves won't be as healthy as they could be...and it's your leaves that feed the bud so wacked out leaves = wacked out buds. 

*Uncle Ben *- _I don&#8217;t use &#8220;cannabis specific&#8221; plant foods for many reasons. If you do, make sure you&#8217;re able to find the NPK and micro values and understand the relationship between those elements. An overage of one element over another will create an antagonistic affect. For example, too much K tends to create a deficiency of N, Ca, and Mg. _


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 7, 2012)

Ah ok that makes a lot of sense, thanks! The 20-20-20 has been doing wonders for my basil and mint so I figured I wouldn't have any problems with cannabis lol, I guess that's not the case. Guess I'll just use water from now on until I see bud development. I might get that fish stuff you posted earlier for my next grow then. 10-30-20 should be fine for flowering right?


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## Lady.J (Jun 7, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Ah ok that makes a lot of sense, thanks! The 20-20-20 has been doing wonders for my basil and mint so I figured I wouldn't have any problems with cannabis lol, I guess that's not the case. Guess I'll just use water from now on until I see bud development. I might get that fish stuff you posted earlier for my next grow then. 10-30-20 should be fine for flowering right?


Nah that's too much! It will work, but is not optimal. Need to give lesser strength nutes during flowering. Am using Fox Farm Big Bloom and it's 0.01 - 0.3 - 0.7. It's organic, many people swear by it, and has gentle ratios for cannabis. Because it is low strength and organic, it's much harder to burn the plants. Am also going to keep using the fish ferts while flowering to make sure the plants are still getting enough N. Will do once a week instead of alternating it with every other watering like I did during veg.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 7, 2012)

On this we'll have to agree to disagree lol. I'll agree that organic>artificial(or w/e its called), but the reason I got Jack's was because I saw a bunch of people grow with it w/o any problems. That and compared to Fox Farm's it's a hell of a lot cheaper. It's just not one of those fertilizers that's typically associated with cannabis. Rereading the threads and some they say use 1/4 strength or half strength though. What's 1/4 of 1/4 tsp? If my nursery sold the ferts I would totally buy em, but $20 for a qt is over my budget. I know amazon overcharges for stuff. How much do you mix per gallon?

Now that I think about it, if the fertilizer I gave the plants was even all around I didn't really add anything more than the other. I do think that I wasn't deficient in anything so I may of caused some problems when I added more though.

Also 10-30-20 is the same as 1-3-2, it's just the way companies decide to write it. If I seem like I'm coming off a little angry or something I totally don't mean too ^_^


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## Lady.J (Jun 7, 2012)

Lol no, you don't sound angry, hope I don't either. I like being able to intelligently converse with someone, even if we don't agree. After all, if I'm wrong and you're right, I'm trying to do what you're doing . Fox Farm does seem expensive....but it lasts a long time, and it really is good. Right now I am mixing 4 caps per gallon. One bottle is enough for a few grows. Have to be careful with cheap nutes...like Miracle Grow, you can grow with it and it's cheaper than Fox Farm, but it won't be the same quality. Your yield could suffer from deciding to go with the cheaper route. And then it's not really cheap because you might find yourself buying weed from someone else sooner than you thought lol. I have heard someone else say that 10-30-20 is the same as 1-3-2 but then I remember someone really experienced on this forum arguing against it? I might be wrong, but I'll look for the thread. If it's the same then those nutes would be good.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 7, 2012)

Well it's a ratio."Proven 1:3:2 ratio stimulates the plant to set more flowers while holding color brighter and longer than any other home blooming formula" http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Jack-s-Classic/Blossom-Booster.html I'll agree that Miracle Grow is typically garbage, but then again people have had successful grows with it too. I mainly just don't like the time released nutes most of their soils have. Haha...Yea, no. Unless the grow completely goes to shit(knock on wood) I don't smoke that much. I've made a gram of High(loud, headies, etc) last a week before, once I made it last a week and a half. So if I get 7 per plant that's enough to last me through another grow so I can get my shit straight.


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## Lady.J (Jun 7, 2012)

I don't know how in the heck you can last a week off of a gram lol. You'll have to let me know how those nutes work out for you though. I know the ones I am using aren't exactly the best but I like the ingredients (earth worm castings, bat guano, seaweed...etc). The best thing to do really is mix your own soil with organic ferts...then all you have to do is water for the entire grow. I want to do that soon!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 7, 2012)

It all depends on what you smoke and how you smoke it. There's no way I could make it last with mids or by using a joint/blunt or even a bong. My pipe is decently sized and as long as I get my high grade stuff I'm good. I've smoked an oz before like like 2 days (4/20-4/21), but that as all mids lol.


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## Lady.J (Jun 7, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> It all depends on what you smoke and how you smoke it. There's no way I could make it last with mids or by using a joint/blunt or even a bong. My pipe is decently sized and as long as I get my high grade stuff I'm good. I've smoked an oz before like like 2 days (4/20-4/21), but that as all mids lol.


lol ah ok, I was doubting your toking abilities when you said you could last on a gram, thought you might be a lightweight lol...but smoking an ounce in two days is some good chiefin' abilities. What kind of pipe do you have? I don't know if I've tried some poorly made ones or what, but it's hard for me to get high on a pipe because the smoke is too harsh, have to roll a J.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 7, 2012)

No idea if I'm a lightweight, but I've been smoking 6 years though. I find that a pipe gives you only the marijuana taste. When you smoke a joint/blunt you're smoking the paper too which changes the taste imo. I think a joint is too harsh for me as well. Here's a pic, I haven't cleaned it out. Can fit maybe .3g if I packed it. Just gotta remember that I'm smoking those 1 hit quitters. And besides if I can get just as high smoking less that means less weed I have to buy. I'm more of a smoke by myself person and a social drinker.


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## Lady.J (Jun 7, 2012)

lol funny, I think a pipe is harsh and you think a j is harsh. Do agree about the paper changing the taste...guess it's just what you are used to. I usually smoke with my fiance so roll joints...blunts are too much! Paper is so thick ughhh...some pretty gross stuff to have sitting in your lungs. Only smoke those on rare occasions. Also, I don't roll 'normal' joints, roll dutch joints. A normal J is too strong for me, and the way it's rolled without a filter makes it hard to really hit it sometimes.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 7, 2012)

Yea the paper is also tobacco so that goes hand in hand with all the stuff smoking cigarettes does to your body afaik. Joints are totally better to smoke with people though, you don't need to keep lighting it over and over again. I've smoked out of a 4 way hooka though, pretty nice and the "cool" factor is pretty awesome too. Everything has it's time and place I guess. Whenever I roll joints I use part of a business card as the filter. What's a dutch joint?


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 8, 2012)

You know I have no idea how people use the "auto focus" feature of cameras. My camera kept focusing past the plant to the door. Was lazy so I just used the non-flash auto and auto focus. Usually I use aperture priority and manual focus. Anyway, it's the morning so fan hasn't been installed or anything yet. I just figured I'd check on the plants and take pics while I'm at it. You'll notice an entire side of the blue mammoth is missing...apparently the gorilla tape only works 1-2 times if you take it off and put it back on...the 42w I had fell killed it while I was sleeping about...2 days ago. Only lost like 2-3 nodes as oddly enough the same thing had happened on the same side before. As you can see it's still doing pretty well and nodes have starting popping up. Both plants needs to be LST'ed again as the lights are almost pulled up all the way to the top. Going to find/buy some scotch tape and do the tape method when I water next. I think having to worry about the hairs on the pipe cleaners isn't worth it. We'll see though, I think I'll still keep doing it with BM.

I made a makeshift split with the clip part of a pin I had for the broken stem on the Northern Lights. I also noticed one more leaf of a bottom fan leaf yellowing. Nothing too serious and all the yellow has occurred on old growth. Ah I also cut the tips of the broken stem leafs because I read that's what you do to promote root growth for clones and it lessens the amount of leaves that the plant needs to hydrate. I also read that the cut tips never grow back(which is perfectly fine) and I wanted to have some light get through to the parts of the plant that are for sure living. I'm also starting to fold back leaves that completely cover new nodes. Not a fan of pruning.

Side Note: Not sure I like using flash too much. It's great to not have to worry about lighting, but I think it takes so much color out of the picture. I normally just set it to a slower shutter speed, but I didn't feel like grabbing my tripod for a few pictures.


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## Lady.J (Jun 8, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Yea the paper is also tobacco so that goes hand in hand with all the stuff smoking cigarettes does to your body afaik. Joints are totally better to smoke with people though, you don't need to keep lighting it over and over again. I've smoked out of a 4 way hooka though, pretty nice and the "cool" factor is pretty awesome too. Everything has it's time and place I guess. Whenever I roll joints I use part of a business card as the filter. What's a dutch joint?


A dutch joint is with king size papers, a filter and just a pinch of tobacco...well my version has only a pinch. Makes the J burn better and incrementally saves weed . Oh yea and it makes the smoke less harsh! Big difference with just a pinch of tobacco. I use the natural kind that comes in a pouch...sans arsenic. Most people don't notice it's in there. The Dutch actually put way too much damn tobacco in their joints (a lot of Europeans do). Never buy a pre-made joint! lol. Business cards are best for filters, I use them too . Don't know about papers having tobacco in them, mine are 100% made from hemp.


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## Lady.J (Jun 8, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> You know I have no idea how people use the "auto focus" feature of cameras. My camera kept focusing past the plant to the door. Was lazy so I just used the non-flash auto and auto focus. Usually I use aperture priority and manual focus. Anyway, it's the morning so fan hasn't been installed or anything yet. I just figured I'd check on the plants and take pics while I'm at it. You'll notice an entire side of the blue mammoth is missing...apparently the gorilla tape only works 1-2 times if you take it off and put it back on...the 42w I had fell killed it while I was sleeping about...2 days ago. Only lost like 2-3 nodes as oddly enough the same thing had happened on the same side before. As you can see it's still doing pretty well and nodes have starting popping up. Both plants needs to be LST'ed again as the lights are almost pulled up all the way to the top. Going to find/buy some scotch tape and do the tape method when I water next. I think having to worry about the hairs on the pipe cleaners isn't worth it. We'll see though, I think I'll still keep doing it with BM.
> 
> I made a makeshift split with the clip part of a pin I had for the broken stem on the Northern Lights. I also noticed one more leaf of a bottom fan leaf yellowing. Nothing too serious and all the yellow has occurred on old growth. Ah I also cut the tips of the broken stem leafs because I read that's what you do to promote root growth for clones and it lessens the amount of leaves that the plant needs to hydrate. I also read that the cut tips never grow back(which is perfectly fine) and I wanted to have some light get through to the parts of the plant that are for sure living. I'm also starting to fold back leaves that completely cover new nodes. Not a fan of pruning.
> 
> Side Note: Not sure I like using flash too much. It's great to not have to worry about lighting, but I think it takes so much color out of the picture. I normally just set it to a slower shutter speed, but I didn't feel like grabbing my tripod for a few pictures.


They're looking better! Keep an eye out on the yellowing, Nitrogen deficiency starts on the old growth first, then works its way up.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 8, 2012)

I have half a gallon left of the water(with nutes) left. I was thinking I would just add another half gallon of plain water to dilute it for the next watering. Should I do that or just switch back to plain water since I was fine before then?

Oh yea joint papers are usually tobacco free, I was talking about blunt papers. I've smoked a spliff before, saved me some weed, but the taste wasn't worth it. You mean pre-made joint right? Some of my friends do that. They say it's cheaper than buying grams and rolling the paper. I think they get ripped off in the long run.


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## Lady.J (Jun 8, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I have half a gallon left of the water(with nutes) left. I was thinking I would just add another half gallon of plain water to dilute it for the next watering. Should I do that or just switch back to plain water since I was fine before then?
> 
> Oh yea joint papers are usually tobacco free, I was talking about blunt papers. I've smoked a spliff before, saved me some weed, but the taste wasn't worth it. You mean pre-made joint right? Some of my friends do that. They say it's cheaper than buying grams and rolling the paper. I think they get ripped off in the long run.


From what I understand, you shouldn't reuse fertilizers, need to be used within the first 24 hours. I might be wrong about that though! If you just ferted the plants, wouldn't add any to the next watering. Believe the most you want to fert is every other watering.

Oh yea, and I meant pre-mades....in holland they put way too much tobacco and barely any weed. Def a rip off.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 8, 2012)

Well the formula calls for 1/4 tsp every watering or 1/2 a tsp every other watering. Granted the plant follows it's own formula. I think I'll just go with plain water anyway. I find it's pretty odd that I haven't seen any preflowers for the NL, but I have for the BM which is 3 days younger. How strong are your plants smelling? J/w because mine stinks up my entire room and the adjacent bathroom. Pretty awesome that everyone smokes where you live. Almost as good as living in a MMJ state.


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## Lady.J (Jun 8, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Well the formula calls for 1/4 tsp every watering or 1/2 a tsp every other watering. Granted the plant follows it's own formula. I think I'll just go with plain water anyway. I find it's pretty odd that I haven't seen any preflowers for the NL, but I have for the BM which is 3 days younger. How strong are your plants smelling? J/w because mine stinks up my entire room and the adjacent bathroom. Pretty awesome that everyone smokes where you live. Almost as good as living in a MMJ state.


They probably just flower at different times...some plants show faster than others. My plants smell like I just smoked a joint in the living room sometimes lol. But once I put some glade powder on the carpet and vaccum it, light a candle, and spray Febreeze, can't smell them anymore. I love that everyone smokes here...just came from living in a MMJ country for many years so it lessens the shock of hypocritical American culture lol (am american by the way).


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 8, 2012)

Yay fan was installed!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 8, 2012)

Minor Update: Leaves are a bit droopy on the NL. Not sure if it's from the spritzing, the stress, random drooping or w/e. Not too concerned, poor baby has gone through a lot so it's sort of expected. Still watching out for any more yellowing, but so far it seems good. Absolutely loving this fan. I still keep my window cracked open just a little bit because it's 65-70F during the night. Got some electrical tape and taped a few of the branches on the Blue Mammoth. The branches I had LST'd are already back up. I'm going to need to do something about the main stem on the BM. I've got about 10-12 inches left of space to move the lights back. I may look into scrog for my next grow. Seems more efficient and I don't have to think about the proper place to bend the nodes.

Feels like I'll need to water tomorrow night, but I think I'll wait until Sunday just to make sure. The BM's roots aren't as big(I'm guessing) so it's not drinking as quickly as the NL, it's a bit heavier. Temps have been 82-90F. It jumped up while I had the window open while the breaker was turned off since I didn't want the electrician to electrocute himself. Since then it's been 82-86F.

So pretty much nothing special, just another day waiting for buds. I'm glad I only have 5-6 weeks left of this grow, but it's SUCH A LONG FUCKING WAIT without any weed.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 9, 2012)

Ugh I knew sleeping until 7pm yesterday would bite me in the ass...Checked some of the stems and I noticed some very slight red tint. Got this from one of the stickies, "*Some deficiency during flowering is normal, but too much shouldn't be tolerated. Red petioles and stems are a normal, genetic characteristic for many varieties, plus it can also be a co-symptom of N, K, and Mg-deficiencies, so red stems are not a foolproof sign of P-deficiency. Too much P can lead to iron deficiency*." So far I've only noticed it on 2-3 side branches on the bottom of the plant. Yellowing has stopped as far as I can see. Anyway, I'm going to water with just plain filtered water like I said, but I'm going to continue watching. I'm more inclined to think that the plant is Nitrogen defiecent based on this, "*Older leaves become yellow (chlorotic) from lack of chlorophyll. Deficient plants will exhibit uniform light green to yellow on older leaves, these leaves may die and drop. Leaf margins will not curled up noticeably. Chlorosis will eventually spread throughout the plant. Stems, petioles and lower leaf surfaces may turn purple*." Switch out purple for red and you just described word for word what was happening to my plant. Without any Nitrogen high fertilizer the only thing best thing I can do I think would be to leave it alone, until the all the levels of the NPK come down and then start my flowering nutes.

I requested a free sample of this stuff: http://www.hydroponic-research.com/products.html. There's a thread somewhere on RIU about this stuff. Apparently it's the new craze or something. It's a 16-10-30 which is obviously for flowering, with just a bit more N than K. Seems like a good ratio to me. They have hard water(tap) and soft water(distilled, RO) fertilizer.


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## Lady.J (Jun 9, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Ugh I knew sleeping until 7pm yesterday would bite me in the ass...Checked some of the stems and I noticed some very slight red tint. Got this from one of the stickies, "*Some deficiency during flowering is normal, but too much shouldn't be tolerated. Red petioles and stems are a normal, genetic characteristic for many varieties, plus it can also be a co-symptom of N, K, and Mg-deficiencies, so red stems are not a foolproof sign of P-deficiency. Too much P can lead to iron deficiency*." So far I've only noticed it on 2-3 side branches on the bottom of the plant. Yellowing has stopped as far as I can see. Anyway, I'm going to water with just plain filtered water like I said, but I'm going to continue watching. I'm more inclined to think that the plant is Nitrogen defiecent based on this, "*Older leaves become yellow (chlorotic) from lack of chlorophyll. Deficient plants will exhibit uniform light green to yellow on older leaves, these leaves may die and drop. Leaf margins will not curled up noticeably. Chlorosis will eventually spread throughout the plant. Stems, petioles and lower leaf surfaces may turn purple*." Switch out purple for red and you just described word for word what was happening to my plant. Without any Nitrogen high fertilizer the only thing best thing I can do I think would be to leave it alone, until the all the levels of the NPK come down and then start my flowering nutes.
> 
> I requested a free sample of this stuff: http://www.hydroponic-research.com/products.html. There's a thread somewhere on RIU about this stuff. Apparently it's the new craze or something. It's a 16-10-30 which is obviously for flowering, with just a bit more N than K. Seems like a good ratio to me. They have hard water(tap) and soft water(distilled, RO) fertilizer.


Somebody just mentioned that to me, ordered a sample too! Hope it helps out with your babies. Are you 12-12 now? Somebody linked this thread to me...seriously considering a 12-12 from seed perpetual grow: https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/416589-12-12-seed-thread.html


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 9, 2012)

Someone's been drinking/smoking again lol. Remember I'm growing autos? Yea I've read that thread. Interestingly enough del6666 actually says using CFLs for 12-12 from seed isn't worth it. Somewhere in the thread he mentions he got 1.5oz-2oz per plant using a 600w HID. I actually found that product by reading your thread lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 9, 2012)

Oh I noticed 2 more fan leaves yellowing. That makes it 4 total. 2 large fan leaves and 2 smaller ones closer to the main stem. Pot was very light so I decided to water today. If it continues to yellow I really don't have much of a choice besides using the 20-20-20. Maybe it was just a coincidence that the leaves are started to yellow? My nutes were very very diluted. Also I'm at week 5 so I should have about 1-2 more weeks of vertical growth and then onto bud production.


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## Lady.J (Jun 9, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Someone's been drinking/smoking again lol. Remember I'm growing autos? Yea I've read that thread. Interestingly enough del6666 actually says using CFLs for 12-12 from seed isn't worth it. Somewhere in the thread he mentions he got 1.5oz-2oz per plant using a 600w HID. I actually found that product by reading your thread lol.


lmao I've been smoking a lot, think this is the 3rd time you told me autos. I know he hates on CFLs a little because he knows that he can get bigger yields using better lights...but for most beginners (and people on a low budget), getting the experience of growing comes before worrying about yield. If I had the option to choose a 600 watt light system, I'd def pick it over CFLs lol. Our buds will be smaller, but they'll still be good, we'll get high as shit smoking something we cared for ourselves. CFLs let me have that experience for the low low


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 9, 2012)

Haha yea I'd love to able to run a 600w in my sterlite bin. Well is experience>yield than 12/12 from seed is a great idea. I'm curious how much you can pull off with CFLs if a 600w gives you 2oz tops. More of a fan of autos anyway.


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## Lady.J (Jun 9, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Haha yea I'd love to able to run a 600w in my sterlite bin. Well is experience>yield than 12/12 from seed is a great idea. I'm curious how much you can pull off with CFLs if a 600w gives you 2oz tops. More of a fan of autos anyway.


I thought he said he gets 2.5-3 oz per plant and with CFLs he got 1 oz per plant? That's not bad if that's the case...maybe I didn't read it right though...and to be honest I'm too lazy to go back and look lol. Going to see for myself and see how it is...wouldn't mind harvesting buds every couple weeks...especially if a good cloning system is established!

Oh and I didn't noticed your other post before...but it's not a coincidence the leaves are yellowing. Yellowing is a sure sign of deficiency. I mean I could suggest an alternative but I don't know how willing you are to consider it...

In the beginning of my bin grow, I grew a bagseed and it was yellowing a lot. Stunted growth is what comes after the yellowing...will barely change from day to day. Seems like new leaves take forever to unfurl. I had no money or nutes...so I used 15 parts water to 1 part urine...incredible results. The bagseed took off and was so much healthier. I gave the kush and skunk seedlings a little bit more diluted version as soon as I saw the tips of their first leaves starting to yellow...they didn't skip a beat, took off absurdly fast. Was comparing my grow to other growers who had more grows than I under their belt, and mine were often bigger. When they weren't bigger, they were the same size! If you want the proof you can dig through the early pages of my grow if you feel like it. Had absolutely no problems while using urine as a fert...and it's cheap


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 9, 2012)

...Not really much o a choice...We'll see...Per gallon how much urine? Only working with a 1 gallon jug Also my diet...isn't the greatest. Breakfast consists usually of poptarts, but for dinner I usually make decent stuff. Had quishe last night/today. What I meant by coincidence was that before using any nutes I had no yellowing. Maybe one part of a very small fan leaf at the bottom. The night after I use ferts I get yellowing and red stem all over...You know after reading that...nvm it isn't a coincidence lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 9, 2012)

Also not sure if it matters to you since you plan to go 12/12 from seed, but I've been following this thread about 18/6 vs 24/0. Seems like some pretty interesting stuff. https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/534490-18hrs-vs-24hrs-5.html


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## Lady.J (Jun 9, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> ...Not really much o a choice...We'll see...Per gallon how much urine? Only working with a 1 gallon jug Also my diet...isn't the greatest. Breakfast consists usually of poptarts, but for dinner I usually make decent stuff. Had quishe last night/today. What I meant by coincidence was that before using any nutes I had no yellowing. Maybe one part of a very small fan leaf at the bottom. The night after I use ferts I get yellowing and red stem all over...You know after reading that...nvm it isn't a coincidence lol.


My diet wasn't the best either to be honest...and I used it as an excuse to quit the experiment, but really I got some money and wanted to try Fox Farm lol. Per gallon, most people just pee into the gallon jug and fill it up with water. It ends up coming out to be the right ratio...unless you have a monster pee you've been holding forever haha. Oh and make sure not to use the very first pee of the day, contains a high amount of salts. Never keep your pee mix longer than 24 hours and if your diet isn't the best, flush every once in a while to make sure your soil doesn't get any salt build up. It's pretty simple...when I get this perpetual grow started, am going to run a strain or two that only gets urine ferts and see how it does!


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## Lady.J (Jun 9, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Also not sure if it matters to you since you plan to go 12/12 from seed, but I've been following this thread about 18/6 vs 24/0. Seems like some pretty interesting stuff. https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/534490-18hrs-vs-24hrs-5.html


Yea have seen a lot of arguments about it! I feel like plants need darkness too...when I was growing under 24 hours lights, the plants grew a lot slower. When vegging, ended up switching to 18/6 and noticed a diff right away. Have seen a guy do a side by side comparison grow and the 18/6 yielded better and was more potent.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 9, 2012)

Do you think I should wait the 2-3 days for the soil to dry out or should I just go ahead and water with the...urine/water mix tomorrow? Noticed a few more stems reddening. Blue Mammoth is just fine though.


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## Lady.J (Jun 9, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Do you think I should wait the 2-3 days for the soil to dry out or should I just go ahead and water with the...urine/water mix tomorrow? Noticed a few more stems reddening. Blue Mammoth is just fine though.


Do you let your soil completely dry out before you water? Just curious. 

I don't see anything wrong with a light watering of the mix. Don't blame you for wanting to get Nitrogen to her right away! It will be a few days before you notice a difference, but she should stop yellowing, and start growing faster. The yellow leaves will fall off eventually and you'll forget they ever happened.

Your NL must be a picky girl, at least the BM is good to go!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 9, 2012)

Usually it's almost 100% bone dry. I try to shoot for just before it's completely dry, which is usually 2-3 days depending on the temps. Yea, the NL was the only one to have any signs of nute burn when I started out too.


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## Lady.J (Jun 9, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Usually it's almost 100% bone dry. I try to shoot for just before it's completely dry, which is usually 2-3 days depending on the temps. Yea, the NL was the only one to have any signs of nute burn when I started out too.


Gotta watch out for that! You let you soil dry all the way and it can develop dry pockets where the water won't penetrate and your roots will suffer...can give you lot of plant issues. Best to keep it moist...if it feels more dry than wet, give them gals a watering. Someone pointed this out to me when I was letting mine mostly dry before watering too. Have seen it mentioned a couple other places since. That NL doesn't know what she wants! One minute she's nute burned, the next, she's deficient lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 9, 2012)

Ikr! That's what made me want to try La Diva and Afgan Kush Ryder next time. First NL doesn't know what she wants and the second one took 2 1/2 weeks to finally pop out of her shell and was still stunted. I kind of want to try my luck at hydroponics, takes up less space and I don't have to worry about root size vs pot size. I think I bookmarked one thread about using an aquarium with fish in it for nitrogen and other micro nutes while the plants give oxygen and stuff to the fish. Too complicated for me though lol. I like what you have set in your closet though, will what you have been enough to support the entire grow from start to finish?


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## Lady.J (Jun 9, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Ikr! That's what made me want to try La Diva and Afgan Kush Ryder next time. First NL doesn't know what she wants and the second one took 2 1/2 weeks to finally pop out of her shell and was still stunted. I kind of want to try my luck at hydroponics, takes up less space and I don't have to worry about root size vs pot size. I think I bookmarked one thread about using an aquarium with fish in it for nitrogen and other micro nutes while the plants give oxygen and stuff to the fish. Too complicated for me though lol. I like what you have set in your closet though, will what you have been enough to support the entire grow from start to finish?


Thank you, glad you like the closet...am currently still making changes to it. I have everything to support the grow...but I've been reconsidering lol...I think I want to use the closet to do a 12/12 perpetual grow because I have enough height to let the plants get tall...then use the bucket I was going to hydro in for tea...lol. I just love organics! I want to try hydro but am torn right now.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 9, 2012)

Personally I think perpetual would be better. You won't have to worry about making the last harvest last and you can grow more plants. So if you wanted you could have every strain you wanted and each of them being done in 11-12 weeks. With hydro though I assume you could grow huge plants(if you have the proper lighting of course). Why not just do hydro perpetual? Oh just wondering, but did that veg+bloom company send you a reply to your request or something? I haven't received anything, but I don't know if they just go ahead and send it.


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## Lady.J (Jun 10, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Personally I think perpetual would be better. You won't have to worry about making the last harvest last and you can grow more plants. So if you wanted you could have every strain you wanted and each of them being done in 11-12 weeks. With hydro though I assume you could grow huge plants(if you have the proper lighting of course). Why not just do hydro perpetual? Oh just wondering, but did that veg+bloom company send you a reply to your request or something? I haven't received anything, but I don't know if they just go ahead and send it.


Yea being able to have different strains and rotate them out so there is constant bud....the pot head in me is intrigued. I thought about hydro perpetual...but then I'd have to get more pumps and buckets....soil just seems easier. Keep about 4 plants in small planters, they have a few feet to stretch upwards, sounds good! Will eventually try hydro again...in a couple months, will finally cave in and buy a tent...then have my bin, closet, and a tent filled with trees lol. Just put a Big Bud #2 seed in germination, so if it pops, the perpetual will be underway!

Oh yea and haven't heard anything from that company. They probably just send it. I wrote someone else for a sample before and they had only hit me back to ask for the address.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 10, 2012)

Damn, Lady "J" indeed. Yea, without a doubt soil is easier, but hydro seems to take up less space I think. Now that I think about it you're not really using pots. Since we more or less have the same type of grow what type of container did you use? Seems I was way wrong about the thing you're using not being large enough. I'd rather have a wide pot than a tall one since space is always a concern with micro grows. 

I'm mad jealous of people who have to space to have a grow that big. I've never even seen anything larger than an ounce.

It's too early lol. I associated J with joint which somehow lead me to marijuana lol.


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## Lady.J (Jun 10, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Damn, Lady "J" indeed. Yea, without a doubt soil is easier, but hydro seems to take up less space I think. Now that I think about it you're not really using pots. Since we more or less have the same type of grow what type of container did you use? Seems I was way wrong about the thing you're using not being large enough. I'd rather have a wide pot than a tall one since space is always a concern with micro grows.
> 
> I'm mad jealous of people who have to space to have a grow that big. I've never even seen anything larger than an ounce.
> 
> It's too early lol. I associated J with joint which somehow lead me to marijuana lol.


Lol I actually got that nickname for that reason . I guess hydro can take up less space if you put the plants in multiple containers....but then it will be a pain in the ass to move out the plant that's ready to harvest and replace it with a seedling. 

I used a flower pot container from Family Dollar. It was about 4 or 5 bucks. Really think it gives me the most space for roots because it stretches from one end of the box to the other, and it's about 7 inches deep but I have it filled to about 6. If I just used two pots, would have been a lot of unused space, and they would have taken up more height for the same amount of soil. 

Are you not able to convert a closet in your apartment?


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 10, 2012)

I could but ventilation is my main concern. Remember I actually started in my closet. Temps are 97F. All the closets are being used for storage/food/clothing/etc. The closet in my bedroom is the only walk-in closet. All the others are your standard sized closet. Yea I have a good amount of empty space in the oddest of angles in my bin. I'm actually curious as to how you'll be able to use the same number of lights you're using now and still keep the temps at an adequate level without having similar ventilation to your bin.


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## Lady.J (Jun 10, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I could but ventilation is my main concern. Remember I actually started in my closet. Temps are 97F. All the closets are being used for storage/food/clothing/etc. The closet in my bedroom is the only walk-in closet. All the others are your standard sized closet. Yea I have a good amount of empty space in the oddest of angles in my bin. I'm actually curious as to how you'll be able to use the same number of lights you're using now and still keep the temps at an adequate level without having similar ventilation to your bin.


I have a surprise for you .


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 10, 2012)

Oh damn, someone is going to start come construction isn't she.


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## Lady.J (Jun 10, 2012)

Lol yup...but ghetto - homemade construction 

I will finish everything today and post some pics up for you. Then maybe you will want to try it out too...think how awesome it'd be if you could use a whole closet instead of a bin??!! Or how awesome it'd be to use both...

I'm like you, in an apartment, so I can't just cut into walls or modify the closet door with tools, but found a way around that. Not an expensive way either (you know I'm cheap lol). 

Going to start finishing it up now after having a morning smoke


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 10, 2012)

Alrighty, I decided to go ahead and water today. I added something a little extra if you catch my drift.  I actually didn't aim to get any run off, but I ended up getting just a little bit so I may of overwatered just a tad, oh well. I didn't exactly get a measuring cup so hopefully the ratio of urine to water was enough to help. No idea what's wrong with the girl.

I got some old crappy busted ear buds and split the left and right wires. Tada! More possibilities than tape and cleaner than pipe cleaners. I think I went to town this time. I LST'd just about everything I could. I want to LST the main stem on the NL, but as you can see it's still recovering.

I took the tape off to see if it was really healing. How's it look? There's come slight discoloration, the top part is a lighter green while the bottom is a darker green similar to the leaves. Didn't bother taking pics of it, but the leaves that were yellowing finally started crisping and dying off. The ends of the leaves are brown. There's been no new growth above the break, but it hasn't really died. I'm going to stop spritzing it as it seems like it reconnected to the main stem. Although I wonder if that was just the gorilla tapes stickiness that's keeping it together.

P.S, The first 2 pics are pre-LST is it wasn't obvious. Figured it was good for comparison.


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## Lady.J (Jun 10, 2012)

They look pretty good! That NL is recovering real nice..can't remember if it's been a week since it snapped but remember reading that's about how long it takes for it to heal. That stem is going to be strong as hell now. Your LST looks good too. Hope the lil extra in the water helps your ladies out


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 10, 2012)

Stem snapped on June 3rd so today is exactly a week  yea the NL recovers nicely from the issues she has, just wish she didn't have as many issues lol.


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## Lady.J (Jun 10, 2012)

Made a thread for the perpetual: https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-fluorescent-lighting/535181-lady-js-12-12-seed.html


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 10, 2012)

Oh how often would you recommend watering with urine? Every other watering or every until A: The problem goes away or B: Buds start to develop. The grossness factor is big to me, but idc if I'm smoking some grade a herb at the end of the day.


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## Lady.J (Jun 10, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Oh how often would you recommend watering with urine? Every other watering or every until A: The problem goes away or B: Buds start to develop. The grossness factor is big to me, but idc if I'm smoking some grade a herb at the end of the day.


You can use it just like a fert, every other watering. Can even use it during budding...the buds won't taste like pee lol. I understand what you mean about the gross factor...just keep in mind that your kidneys sterilize your pee...it's even good enough to drink if you were in a survival situation, could save you. After 24 hours, it's a bacteria farm though. There's actually a study the Dutch did, they found pee fertilizes plants just as well, sometimes even better, than commercial fertilizers. That's why a lot of people use cow urea for their lawns.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 10, 2012)

Well I was going to switch to my 10-20-30 when buds start to develop. Jack's Classic actually says to use every watering, although they said that's every 7-14 days so maybe that's the same thing as every other since I water every 2-3 days.


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## Lady.J (Jun 10, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Well I was going to switch to my 10-20-30 when buds start to develop. Jack's Classic actually says to use every watering, although they said that's every 7-14 days so maybe that's the same thing as every other since I water every 2-3 days.


Did you ever order that fish fert / seaweed mix? It's 2-3-1, perfect ratio for flowering. I didn't even realize, going to be using that for bloom.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 10, 2012)

I didn't lol. I didn't feel like buying ferts midway into the grow and I assumed the 20-20-20 would suffice. This was of course before I had a deficiency with the NL. I'll make sure to buy it for my next grow, but if I ordered it now, I'd only have *maybe* a week of preflowering left before bud production starts. I thought perfect was 1-3-2 or 1-2-3, I think I read that plants use/need less nitrogen than phosphorus and potassium while in flowering and use more Nitrogen and phosphorus than potassium during veg. 

At the very least I know you want more K and N during flowering. That's a perfect ratio for veg tho.


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## Lady.J (Jun 10, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I didn't lol. I didn't feel like buying ferts midway into the grow and I assumed the 20-20-20 would suffice. This was of course before I had a deficiency with the NL. I'll make sure to buy it for my next grow, but if I ordered it now, I'd only have *maybe* a week of preflowering left before bud production starts. I thought perfect was 1-3-2 or 1-2-3, I think I read that plants use/need less nitrogen than phosphorus and potassium while in flowering and use more Nitrogen and phosphorus than potassium during veg.
> 
> At the very least I know you want more K and N during flowering. That's a perfect ratio for veg tho.


A lot of people say that plants don't need as much Nitrogen, yet they're the same people who have all yellow or no leaves at the end of the flowering cycle. They say it's natural and the buds are just pulling on nutrients but that is erroneous thinking...the leaves feed the buds so if they can be kept green the entire grow, you will have bigger, more potent buds. Nitrogen directly affects potency and smell.

With a 2 - 3 - 1, you keep your plants with a healthy amount of N while still catering to the increased need for P and lesser need for K. A lot of people over do it on the P, don't need as much as they think. I see so many people flowering with messed up looking leaves, I tend to believe the guy that loses only one leaf, everything is green, and is harvesting pounds from plants (Uncle Ben).


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 10, 2012)

I may have gotten my elements wrong, it's P during flowering not K. While Uncle Ben is usually right, if that's the case why do so many fertilizers(e.g fox farm big bloom) have an increased amount of P and a lower amount of N? Also, " During the vegetative stage, cannabis needs more N than P and K, while during the flowering stage, P is more essential than N and K" **^*"Greg Green" The Cannabis Grow Bible, 4th edition (2001), page 164*

UB grows trees for sure, but it's not like he's the only one who does.

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/937-how-grow-marijuana.html#post4676

"*

During our grow cycle the plant likes a fertilizer high in nitrogen. Something like 20-5-5. It uses the nitrogen for strong stem and leaf growth. After you change over to your flowering cycle you will want a fertilizer that is high in phosphorous and potassium. Something like 5-15-15 should work well. "​




*


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## Lady.J (Jun 10, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I may have gotten my elements wrong, it's P during flowering not K. While Uncle Ben is usually right, if that's the case why do so many fertilizers(e.g fox farm big bloom) have an increased amount of P and a lower amount of N? Also, " During the vegetative stage, cannabis needs more N than P and K, while during the flowering stage, P is more essential than N and K" **^*"Greg Green" The Cannabis Grow Bible, 4th edition (2001), page 164*
> 
> UB grows trees for sure, but it's not like he's the only one who does.


Uncle Ben says they care more for marketing than for actual good levels for cannabis...a lot of those companies use those same nutes for other plants too, and not all plants need the same ratio. Supposedly nutes and fertilizers for tomatoes are the closest related to cannabis, and you can use those products just fine. Or just mix your own with the right ratio. It's kind of like how fast food is for us, we pay a ridiculous amount on unhealthy food for our bodies in large part due to advertisement...shitty plant foods are marketed as cutting edge and innovative...anything for them to make a buck! Not surprising that they care about the money before the art. 

Found this:


*&#8203;*
*






Originally Posted by merahoon 
Thanks UB for your knowledge! My only question regards to applying nutes in flowering. You stated that if its necessary to keep your leaves green, give them a 9-3-6. Won't your plants produce smaller flowers if your giving that much nitrogen in flowering?



Again we are not comfortable with what's going on, think botany and outside of the box. A plant flowers not because of the foods the labels and forum geeks says they should have, it flowers based on the health of the leaves. You're not feeding it anything, the plant is making its own food. Your sole purpose for using plant foods is to support plant processes, salt requirements. Support of leaf health is what's important, not forum paradigms, consensus', etc. I grew an outdoor sativa with high N foods all the way thru. Why? Because every time I used a blossom food (low N) the leaves would yellow, indicating that chlorophyll was being destroyed. Even though they were wispy buds, typical for a pure sativa geno, they were 10" across and very heavy. Here's a shot showing 2 main colas of a total of 4 on one plant.







By the same token you don't want to overdo N during flowering. It's all in the balance.






Originally Posted by squarepush3r 
+rep, thx UncleBen

Uncle Ben, what ratio nutrients do you for your plants? Do you use different formulas for veg and flower? Do you use Lucas formula, 5-10-9?



For me, a 9-3-6 and a 1-3-2 is all I need. I don't believe in the Lucas formula as it is not a complete food, at least not for hydro and I don't think he promoted it for soil use. Just because something is talked up, is popular, doesn't mean it's the best choice.​




*


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## Lady.J (Jun 10, 2012)

You were right, it's 1-3-2. I remembered it wrong. Lol...I think I'm going to try the compost tea method for fert in the perpetual grow. Have you read about tea yet?


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 10, 2012)

A bit confused. He says you need a 9-3-6 for healthy growth, but he still uses the 1-3-2. What benefit does having less N have then? Also cool to read that he does 20/4 like me too ^_^ What he says(that I understand) makes total sense though.

Also, I don't eat fast food 

I actually haven't read about tea. From what I heard you say it requires space and I'm not one for having a bunch of shit in my bedroom and if I bring over company I don't like to have to explain why there's a large container in the living room. But again, I haven't done any research whatsoever.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 11, 2012)

Just got a UPS email telling me my Veg+Bloom fertilizer is on it's way.


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## Lady.J (Jun 11, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Just got a UPS email telling me my Veg+Bloom fertilizer is on it's way.


Got it in the mail box earlier today


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 11, 2012)

Oh nice, I heard it takes about 5 or so days for most people. I'm on the east coast though so I'm expecting maximum wait time since it's coming from cali.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 11, 2012)

Gonna go ahead and water today once more with the urine and then after that I'll be watering with the 1-3-2 blossom booster. If the Veg+Bloom gets here before the last 2 weeks of flowering I'll switch to that because the 16-10-30 seems interesting and has more N than my 10-30-20.

I've lost 2 leaves and I noticed slight reddening on maybe 4-5 small branching stems. Both plants are taking the LST pretty well and the top part of the NL finally started growing. Just eyeballing it, but I've probably got another 10-12" from the top of the bin and the reflectors take up maybe...4-5?

Temps have been so odd today lol. I haven't had the a/c on all day and during the day with the window open it's been 84-86, but tonight it jumped up to 90F, turned off the 2 center 26w CFLs that I had for bottom node growth and the temp dropped 2 degrees. It was raining all day long so maybe the wind helped a bit. Lights off usually puts me at 79-82F going by the thermometer.


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## Lady.J (Jun 12, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Oh nice, I heard it takes about 5 or so days for most people. I'm on the east coast though so I'm expecting maximum wait time since it's coming from cali.


I'm on the east coast too , south east


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 12, 2012)

Me too ^_^


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## Lady.J (Jun 12, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Gonna go ahead and water today once more with the urine and then after that I'll be watering with the 1-3-2 blossom booster. If the Veg+Bloom gets here before the last 2 weeks of flowering I'll switch to that because the 16-10-30 seems interesting and has more N than my 10-30-20.
> 
> I've lost 2 leaves and I noticed slight reddening on maybe 4-5 small branching stems. Both plants are taking the LST pretty well and the top part of the NL finally started growing. Just eyeballing it, but I've probably got another 10-12" from the top of the bin and the reflectors take up maybe...4-5?
> 
> Temps have been so odd today lol. I haven't had the a/c on all day and during the day with the window open it's been 84-86, but tonight it jumped up to 90F, turned off the 2 center 26w CFLs that I had for bottom node growth and the temp dropped 2 degrees. It was raining all day long so maybe the wind helped a bit. Lights off usually puts me at 79-82F going by the thermometer.



You probably won't need all the N the last two weeks of flowering...that's when you're supposed to go lighter on the nutes. I guess it's more about what your plants tell you. If you see leaves yellowing, hit them up with a fert that has more N. If they seem good to go, stick with your bloom booster. 

Be careful with the Urine. It has enough N-P-K to be it's own standalone fert, so it you use it too much, it can burn your plants too. Usually you want to do it every other watering. When you do a plain watering, make sure you see some run off before you stop...helps flush the salts from the urine out. They can really build up if you use pee a lot of times. Flushing + urine go hand in hand.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 12, 2012)

*before* the last 2 weeks. I know during the final 2 weeks before harvest you want to only plain water. I meant if the fert got in on say...the 3rd week before harvest I would use it. Though I guess you're right about needing less N during the end anyway. Eh I make sure I have at least 10% run off whenever I water, nutes included or not. Except when using the urine, that time was by accident and it was just a little bit.

I'm kind of going off of what my plants are telling me because I'm seeing a lot of reddening actually. A few lower branches are full red and the top growth has maybe 50% red stems. My mix was probably not even 1:15. Top growth has started again, but most of the lower growth has stopped. Not sure if that's because I'm about 1-2 into flowering or if that's the deficiency.

If you think so I may water with plain water before starting to use the blossom booster just to have a clean slate so to speak.


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## Lady.J (Jun 12, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> *before* the last 2 weeks. I know during the final 2 weeks before harvest you want to only plain water. I meant if the fert got in on say...the 3rd week before harvest I would use it. Though I guess you're right about needing less N during the end anyway. Eh I make sure I have at least 10% run off whenever I water, nutes included or not. Except when using the urine, that time was by accident and it was just a little bit.
> 
> I'm kind of going off of what my plants are telling me because I'm seeing a lot of reddening actually. A few lower branches are full red and the top growth has maybe 50% red stems. My mix was probably not even 1:15. Top growth has started again, but most of the lower growth has stopped. Not sure if that's because I'm about 1-2 into flowering or if that's the deficiency.
> 
> If you think so I may water with plain water before starting to use the blossom booster just to have a clean slate so to speak.


Lol my bad...I read super fast so I have the habit of missing slight details like that . Hey, I heard something about using ferts all the way to the end? Someone mentioned that it doesn't affect the taste of the bud and allows the leaves to feed the bud more before harvest. I don't know how true that is but def going to experiment with it in the perpetual. 

I brought up the run-off cuz I started this watering cycle where I water less at one time but more often...aiming to basically just keep things moist, never dry and never flushing. That would be terrible to do with urine...unless you have a pristine diet. Almost made the mistake of not looking into it properly. Good thing for you that you already water correctly lol 

Oh ok, if you feel your plants are telling you that they need more then you should go with that. Just keep in mind that you won't see full results for another week. Also, it's safe to foilar feed the mix...will get the N to your plants faster.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 12, 2012)

Idk about using ferts all the way through. If you went 100% organic I wouldn't see a problem with that though. All the stuff I've read say to flush out any synthetic fertilizers before you harvest. I'm guessing you're going to go the last 2 weeks w/o ferts on your current grow then? Not exactly a perfect experiment, but you should know which way is best for you from it.

Yea, that's the one thing I'm kind of concerned about. Your method of watering often, but less heavily makes sense. It's just a harder guideline to follow. When you water water with your ferts do you also water till you get a little run off or just when using plain water? Actually do you use any synthetic fertilizer anyway? Salt buildup/nute burn isn't as bad with organics I think.

Eh...I'm definitely not cool with foliar feeding my plants with any mix of urine. Bud production hasn't starting or anything, but...idk that's just where I draw the line. I do agree that I would get faster results though. There's only so much a man can compromise  I think I read it wasn't a good idea to do with synthetic fertilizers because of the salt staying on the leaves, but that was just in passing, I've never done any research really on foliar feeding.


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## Lady.J (Jun 12, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Idk about using ferts all the way through. If you went 100% organic I wouldn't see a problem with that though. All the stuff I've read say to flush out any synthetic fertilizers before you harvest. I'm guessing you're going to go the last 2 weeks w/o ferts on your current grow then? Not exactly a perfect experiment, but you should know which way is best for you from it.
> 
> Yea, that's the one thing I'm kind of concerned about. Your method of watering often, but less heavily makes sense. It's just a harder guideline to follow. When you water water with your ferts do you also water till you get a little run off or just when using plain water? Actually do you use any synthetic fertilizer anyway? Salt buildup/nute burn isn't as bad with organics I think.
> 
> Eh...I'm definitely not cool with foliar feeding my plants with any mix of urine. Bud production hasn't starting or anything, but...idk that's just where I draw the line. I do agree that I would get faster results though. There's only so much a man can compromise  I think I read it wasn't a good idea to do with synthetic fertilizers because of the salt staying on the leaves, but that was just in passing, I've never done any research really on foliar feeding.


I guess I'm always assuming soil is going to be done organically lol. Refuse to go synthetic....and even though Fox Farm is maybe not 100% organic, using that and Fish & Seaweed ferts should keep me organic until I'm brewing tea. 

Am not going to experiment on this current grow, am going to experiment in perpetual. For this grow I am going to alternate between bloom nutes, fish and Seaweed, liquid karma, and then switch to unsulphated (sp?) molasses for the last two. But that plan may change depending on what new info I come across lol.

When I water with ferts, don't usually water to the point of run off. Don't with plain water either. End up watering every other day. Not saying it's the best, but I figure I'd try it out and compare it to other ways later. 

Haha I understand you not wanting to foliar feed. Am actually surprised you went ahead and tried it at all, so baby steps first . To be honest, I don't know much about synthetic ferts at all when it comes to soil. Decided from the get that I was going to use ferts made by natural means. Nute burn / salt buildup is almost nonexistent when you use organics. That was another deciding factor for me as a newbie, was paranoid about killing the plants!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 12, 2012)

Yea a lot of people use synthetic ferts, organic is probably cheaper and easier to use, but synthetic usually has higher concentrations of what plants need. Not always a good thing, but it means using less of it I think. I used it because people said it worked, I read that organic ferts usually stink and at $8 for half a pound I couldn't really go wrong. Damn you've got got a lot for nutes lol. I was having another discussion with somebody about sugar yesterday, I may look into buying some molasses and supplementing my watering with it. The liquid karma is just a supplement I guess though right?

I think(and read ofc) that it's best to get a little run off just to be sure you've watered the enter pot. I notice that for a little run of I water a 1 gallon pot(it's 2 cups sort of a gallon w/e) about half a gallon. After that last watering the soil is a little dry, by tomorrow maybe it would need a good watering. So that's every 2 days, which is every other day right? I usually try to shoot for more run off so that makes sense.

Not asking you to do my research for me(ok I am ), but if you were to buy veg and bloom nutes while keeping it as organic as possible what would you recommend? Without recommending fox farm.

Oh yea there was an ehow on using sugar with plants. Said use 50...something of sugar in 1 liter of water and boil it. I'm assuming that you let it cool and it's fine to use. I think molasses would be better, but some people disagree lol.


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## Lady.J (Jun 12, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Yea a lot of people use synthetic ferts, organic is probably cheaper and easier to use, but synthetic usually has higher concentrations of what plants need. Not always a good thing, but it means using less of it I think. I used it because people said it worked, I read that organic ferts usually stink and at $8 for half a pound I couldn't really go wrong. Damn you've got got a lot for nutes lol. I was having another discussion with somebody about sugar yesterday, I may look into buying some molasses and supplementing my watering with it. The liquid karma is just a supplement I guess though right?
> 
> I think(and read ofc) that it's best to get a little run off just to be sure you've watered the enter pot. I notice that for a little run of I water a 1 gallon pot(it's 2 cups sort of a gallon w/e) about half a gallon. After that last watering the soil is a little dry, by tomorrow maybe it would need a good watering. So that's every 2 days, which is every other day right? I usually try to shoot for more run off so that makes sense.
> 
> ...



Well my experience with organic ferts has been positive...haven't had any problems with smell. The fish and seaweed mix stunk when I put my nose to it lol, but other than that I don't smell anything except weed . Also, have barely touched the bottles. Have a quart of the Fox Farm and use 4 cap fulls to the gallon at the moment...seems as there is enough for at least a few more grows. Lol, I know I use a lot but couldn't resist the benefits from each! I'm going to post the summaries from the mft:

*Neptune's Harvest Organic Fish & Seaweed Fertilizer: *_Growers using our fish/seaweed blend fertilizer on a regular basis have reported increased marketable yields and improved shelf life on fruits and vegetables. Fish and Seaweed are known to build the natural sugar in plants. Flowers and foliage will be stronger and more colorful. Blooms will be more plentiful, fragrant and longer lasting._

*Liquid Karma:* _The introduction of LIQUID KARMA &#8482; represents a major and significant breakthrough in plant nutrition. This is because LIQUID KARMA &#8482; contains a full complement of metabolically active organic compounds not found in regular plant foods or supplements. These unique compounds are absorbed immediately and act as regulatory signals, activators or catalysts to produce synchronized and accelerated growth under all conditions. LIQUID KARMA &#8482; functions as a growth engine because its high metabolic activity produces a large amount of energy which is immediately transformed to growth.
Benefits of Using LIQUID KARMA &#8482; 
Extensive research and field trials indicate that LIQUID KARMA &#8482; produces beneficial results during every phase of plant growth. Starting with seed germination and following through to vegetative growth, budding and flowering, the continued use of LIQUID KARMA &#8482; ensures optimal plant growth at every stage. _

*Fox Farm Big Bloom: *_This odorless, liquid fertilizer is a live culture of vitamins, amino acids, natural growth hormones, enzymes, and beneficial organic microbes. Our special, micro-brewed formula incorporates earthworm castings, bat guano and other high test organic ingredients that offer a full, balanced range of nutrients. Norwegian kelp improves nutrient uptake and increases yields. Rock phosphate helps transfer energy from one part of the plant to another, which means bigger buds and more fragrant flowers.

*Garden tip:* Big Bloom&#8482; is ideal for all flowering and fruiting plants, and it&#8217;s safe enough to use every time you water. You&#8217;ll enjoy healthy, vigorous flowers and dramatically improved fruit and vegetable flavors. Best of all, Big Bloom&#8482; will intensify flower fragrance, and it will increase essential oil production, which means stronger flavors in herbs, fruits, and vegetables. Use Big Bloom&#8482; to extend your fruit and flowering season late into the year. And when a plant is struggling, a root drench of Big Bloom&#8482; will bring it back to life._

Have seen quite a few threads on the fish & seaweed fertilizer and liquid karma...only see positive reviews. Some people have mixed feeling about Fox Farm but it's working out for me, so I'll use the rest of it before switching to something else. 

I know I've watered the entire pot without run off because I pour my mix into a water bottle (measured out four times gives good watering) and water that way every time. It seems like it works ok...never open the box and see wilted plants or anything like that. I had to do a pre measure amount due to how my screen was fastened to the box...was unable to move my planter out. Now that the screen is removed and I can take the plants out, will be watering until there is run off. 

Grabbed this bit from UB (you probably already read it): *

Watering technique - contrary to popular belief, wet/dry cycles are NOT good, especially for organic growers. Keep the soil medium moist but not saturated to the point where air is excluded. When you water, don&#8217;t be shy. Water until there is a good runoff. The issue is not overwatering, it's watering to the point of the exclusion of air.
​  

*If the soil seems dry, def give it a watering tomorrow. 

If I had to recommend nutes for veg and flower, I would tell you to mix you own soil with something like this: http://hightimes.com/grow/subcool/5728

On a much smaller scale of course! That way you don't have to worry about bugs, Ph, aeration, or giving ferts...all you do is water. Remember when I told you not to re-use soil? I found a link where there is a good way to recycle your soil with just adding a few of the things from the link I just provided. Didn't realize you could re-use soil successfully, but it made sense when they compared it to a farmer's top soil. 

Is my diary entry long enough for you?


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 12, 2012)

As much as I love reading Uncle Ben's stuff I really only do so when I either have a problem or when he happens to be posting in the same thread as me. I think when I finish this grow I'll go ahead and buy that fish/seaweed fert, liquid karma(or another brands version,*maybe*) and I might just take the plunge for the FFBB if you say it will last a few grows. What size containers did you buy?

What I got from that article: "Ocean Forest is known for burning plants and having the wrong ratio of nutrients, but when cut with Light Warrior, it makes a pretty good base-soil mix." Awesome was going to buy Happy Frog, but I'll do this instead.
8 large bags of a high-quality organic potting soil with coco fiber and mycorrhizae (i.e., your base soil)25 to 50 lbs of organic worm castings
5 lbs steamed bone meal
5 lbs Bloom bat guano
5 lbs blood meal
3 lbs rock phosphate
¾ cup Epson salts
½ cup sweet lime (dolomite)
½ cup azomite (trace elements)
2 tbsp powdered humic acid

That's...a bit much...I really don't have room to keep a bunch of bags. I'm really just moving to a 5 bedroom house with a few other people that's near to my college so I can't have all this shit(pun intended) laying around. That totally sounds like it would be beyond awesome to have though and no doubt would work. The bat guano, blood meal and bone meal afaik don't come in 1lb bags and most likely will be around the same size and the bag of soil. If I'm totally wrong on that then I might just look this up, but whenever I go to Lowes/Home Depot all I see for soil are the normal sized large bags.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 12, 2012)

Watered the plants and readjusted some of the LST'd stems today. Bottom leaves have all pretty much died out. I'm assuming(I'm in denial) that's party due to them just not getting enough light and the Nitrogen deficiency. That top node on the NL needs to be LST'd, but the stem still looks a bit weak. I'll give it another week maybe. Still no pistils on the NL, but almost every node that's sticking out on the BM has em. I just can't get as good as a pic as you Lady lol. Probably would help if I took the pics inside the bin, but it's hard to LST inside the bin so I took em out.

Included pics of my bin, one with flash on, one with flash off for the lulz. The one with flash off is the brighter one. The emergency blanket side is on the bottom and keeps a light more like in. The first pic are the pistils on one of the lower branches on the Blue Mammoth. I still don't see anything on the NL. Pic 5 is a healthy leaf and pic 6 is a leaf starting to yellow at the tip(which I just noticed you can't see >.<)


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## Lady.J (Jun 12, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> As much as I love reading Uncle Ben's stuff I really only do so when I either have a problem or when he happens to be posting in the same thread as me. I think when I finish this grow I'll go ahead and buy that fish/seaweed fert, liquid karma(or another brands version,*maybe*) and I might just take the plunge for the FFBB if you say it will last a few grows. What size containers did you buy?
> 
> What I got from that article: "Ocean Forest is known for burning plants and having the wrong ratio of nutrients, but when cut with Light Warrior, it makes a pretty good base-soil mix." Awesome was going to buy Happy Frog, but I'll do this instead.
> 8 large bags of a high-quality organic potting soil with coco fiber and mycorrhizae (i.e., your base soil)25 to 50 lbs of organic worm castings
> ...


Yea I heard that about Ocean Forest...that's why I went Black Gold, and had deficiency instead lol. I just bought some Happy Frog formulated for tomatoes so hopefully that will be better. Anyway, I'm starting the plants in seed starter soil first so that by the time they touch the Happy Frog, they should be old enough to handle it. 

I am starting them in 5inch Jiffy pots...the flower box the skunk and kush are growing in is about 23 inches long and 7 inches deep. I'm switching for the perpetual though...think I will do 8-10 inch individual pots.

It *IS* a lot of ingredients you'll be using, but as you know, the batch will be much smaller. You actually can buy 1-2lb bags of all of it. Some things weigh even less. And once you do buy, you'll have the ingredients for multiple grows where you never have to worry about nutes. Not to mention, organic grows are known for both tasting and yielding better than chemical ferts. 

I didn't want to have to get all the stuff together and put out more money since I decided to use some funds for making the closet...so I ordered Happy Frog for now. But when I run out, am making my own soil!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 12, 2012)

I think the nursery only sold FFOF and Happy Frog so I may go with the frog this time, I haven't been there in about 6 months so I could be wrong. Home Depot/Lowes/Wal-mart only sell miracle grow(gag). Ordering soil online seems like a rip off to me. Amazon charges $15 more than the largest size of soil(1.5cu) for the smallest size for FFOF and then I pay shipping to boot. Selection is always great, but that's just not worth it to me. I've seen people debating on the frog and OF so it can't be that much of a difference. If anything the frog is lighter in nutes so it won't burn my plants. I do plan on keeping them in jiffy pellets until I see roots trying to escape though so hopefully by that time they'll be strong enough.

I may get something like that flower box you have. I'm wasting inches having a vertical pot instead of a bed. I'l have to get organic ferts for sure then because any fertilizer I use would go to both plants.


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## Lady.J (Jun 12, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Watered the plants and readjusted some of the LST'd stems today. Bottom leaves have all pretty much died out. I'm assuming(I'm in denial) that's party due to them just not getting enough light and the Nitrogen deficiency. That top node on the NL needs to be LST'd, but the stem still looks a bit weak. I'll give it another week maybe. Still no pistils on the NL, but almost every node that's sticking out on the BM has em. I just can't get as good as a pic as you Lady lol. Probably would help if I took the pics inside the bin, but it's hard to LST inside the bin so I took em out.
> 
> Included pics of my bin, one with flash on, one with flash off for the lulz. The one with flash off is the brighter one. The emergency blanket side is on the bottom and keeps a light more like in. The first pic are the pistils on one of the lower branches on the Blue Mammoth. I still don't see anything on the NL. Pic 5 is a healthy leaf and pic 6 is a leaf starting to yellow at the tip(which I just noticed you can't see >.<)


I must have missed this post while I was blabbing lol...they are looking pretty good! You are LSTing them really well, can't tell it's your first time. Clear out those dead leaves and it wouldn't hurt to go ahead and prune the yellow ones off. They're going to die anyway.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 12, 2012)

I should of taken the obviously dead ones off you're right. I totally wasn't even thinking about it. I'm not one for pruning tbh. I think the plant will do it's own pruning if the leaf is dead until then the plant still provides some photosynthesis already I guess it would help keep whatever N the plant has to the healthy parts. Yea, besides the initial break of the NL I'm getting the hang of it. I think scrog might be easier to work with once I get the screen set up though.


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## Lady.J (Jun 12, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I should of taken the obviously dead ones off you're right. I totally wasn't even thinking about it. I'm not one for pruning tbh. I think the plant will do it's own pruning if the leaf is dead until then the plant still provides some photosynthesis already I guess it would help keep whatever N the plant has to the healthy parts. Yea, besides the initial break of the NL I'm getting the hang of it. I think scrog might be easier to work with once I get the screen set up though.


I'm just like you, I don't like to prune either...but just a couple here and there can improve circulation beneath the leaves. When I took the planter out of the box for the first time, I noticed some leafs had been trapped together at certain points and had suffocated each other, turning yellow and limp. If I had been pruning, could have prevented that. Again, only literally talking about a few leaves here and there at the bottom or congested areas! I don't like to do unnecessary stress to my ladies...


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 13, 2012)

I think I'm going to put the plants on 12/12 as of today(god Wednesday is such an odd day to start). It's week 7 1/2 and I've seen no signs of buds. I'm supposed to see them around week 5-6. I'm going to have the lights off from 3pm to 3am. Oddly enough I'm finding the morning temps to be a bit cooler than the nighttime temps. Was 73 last night and it was 68 around 5am or so. I may change the time a bit, 3pm is just when the lights usually go off. I think 12pm to 12am would be a bit better for outside temperature, I find myself sleeping with the window open.

Worst case the the stress set their clock back a little and the 12/12 will just be reduced lighting. Going to give it a week or so. Autosflowers are supposed to be done within 11 weeks and there's no way the buds will be finished and ripe by now. The Blue Mammoth is a new strain too, so I'm curious how stable the genetics are. As for World of Seeds I've only heard good things about them.


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## Lady.J (Jun 13, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I think I'm going to put the plants on 12/12 as of today(god Wednesday is such an odd day to start). It's week 7 1/2 and I've seen no signs of buds. I'm supposed to see them around week 5-6. I'm going to have the lights off from 3pm to 3am. Oddly enough I'm finding the morning temps to be a bit cooler than the nighttime temps. Was 73 last night and it was 68 around 5am or so. I may change the time a bit, 3pm is just when the lights usually go off. I think 12pm to 12am would be a bit better for outside temperature, I find myself sleeping with the window open.
> 
> Worst case the the stress set their clock back a little and the 12/12 will just be reduced lighting. Going to give it a week or so. Autosflowers are supposed to be done within 11 weeks and there's no way the buds will be finished and ripe by now. The Blue Mammoth is a new strain too, so I'm curious how stable the genetics are. As for World of Seeds I've only heard good things about them.


Hope everything works out with the Autos! Strange that they haven't started flowering yet...


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 13, 2012)

Thinking maybe all the nitrogen may have slowed the flowering process. At this point though I really just looking for answers. https://www.rollitup.org/auto-flowering-strains/535770-week-7-still-no-buds.html Amaximus' plants at week 7 show obvious flowering. I'm not even close to that.

Decided to go 18/6 this week and next Wed if I still don't see any signs of bud production starting I'll go to 12/12. I'm also going to start using the blossom booster although I think I'll use plain water for my next watering, not sure just yet. Yellowing has stopped as far as I can see. I don't really inspect the plant unless I take it out to water it.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 13, 2012)

Just noticed pistils on the Northern Lights, very *very *small pistils. I got some more responses on that thread so I decided to go 12/12. This room isn't light proof by any means so I'm going to have the lights go on at 7am and off at 7pm which should more or less match the outside brightness. I just hope these girls can finish before the semester starts and I have to move in 8 weeks. Transporting them would be such a pain in the ass.


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## Lady.J (Jun 13, 2012)

Hey at least you're seeing pistils now! Don't stress it...they had a rough start so it's probably just taking them a little bit longer. I switched to about the same hours for the same reason you did. Don't have to worry about light leaks that way. If you're really concerned about them not finishing fast enough, you can give them more darkness than usual. You won't yield as much but the buds will finish faster. Just read it in a guide...have it bookmarked somewhere. If you're interested I'll send it to you.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 13, 2012)

Always interested in learning more lol. Oh I got my Veg+Bloom sample today. I might stick with the 1-3-2 though. I guess I have to do a bit more research on this stuff now. I heard "free fertilizer" and jumped on it without really doing any looking into it ^_^


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## Lady.J (Jun 13, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Always interested in learning more lol. Oh I got my Veg+Bloom sample today. I might stick with the 1-3-2 though. I guess I have to do a bit more research on this stuff now. I heard "free fertilizer" and jumped on it without really doing any looking into it ^_^


lmao mine came today too. Thought it was yesterday but that was a different sample. I don't think I will use it for soil...maybe in the homemade bubble cloner after the clones take root.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 13, 2012)

Just make sure you're using the right type. The ppm is different for each.


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## Lady.J (Jun 14, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Just make sure you're using the right type. The ppm is different for each.


Yea I think I got the one for hard water. I use tap water for everything.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 14, 2012)

Lady.J said:


> lmao mine came today too. Thought it was yesterday but that was a different sample. I don't think I will use it for soil...maybe in the homemade bubble cloner after the clones take root.


What else did you get? "free" is my favorite price.


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## Lady.J (Jun 14, 2012)

Organic Fish Hydrolysate Fertilizer from Neptune's Harvest. Only smells if you sniff the bottle and is awesome for plants. Have used the sample several times and still have some left. Ended up buying a fish & seaweed blend of theirs since my plants were looking so good!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 14, 2012)

Got a link or an email address so I can hit her up for a sample? Going to to go organic on my next grow.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 14, 2012)

Wow I'm surprised the soil was so dry after only a day of not watering. Watered with a good bit of run off with the 1/4 tsp of the blossom booster today, that's the recommended strength for each watering. I'll use the fertilizer every other watering. 

Look at all the pretty bud sights ^_^. I should have a good bit of green whenever these girls get done. The left one is Blue Mammoth and the right is Northern Lights. I took off the dead leaves on the NL, was only about 2-3. I just remembered the BM has a few dead leaves at the very bottom of the plant, I forgot to take them off. Kind of expected since CFLs don't have that much light penetration and they're at the very bottom. I'm not going to readjust the LST. Just going to let em do it's thing. That node that's the tallest on the BM is actually about 4-5 nodes from the top. Shows how well she took to the LST.

I'm not actually sure if that desk fan did anything lol. The temp is the same without it, 84-88. It's a bit high and I'd rather run the lights during the dark, but I'm going to try to have a well defined light and darkness period. Took a pic of what the branches look like. I'm starting to see pistils pop up on all the Blue Mammoth branches. That's actually what I took a pic of. Didn't come out like I wanted, but it got my point across. Watched a cervantes video and I think he said ideal humidity was 50-60% for flowering, I'm 49-58% so if I heard correctly I'm all good.


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## Lady.J (Jun 14, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Got a link or an email address so I can hit her up for a sample? Going to to go organic on my next grow.



http://www.neptunesharvest.com/contactus.html

I went there and filled out the form, asked for a sample .


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 14, 2012)

Was it the fish-seaweed fertilizer, just the fish or just the seaweed? Actually what's the difference? Wouldn't it be best to have the fish-seaweed?


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## Lady.J (Jun 14, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Was it the fish-seaweed fertilizer, just the fish or just the seaweed? Actually what's the difference? Wouldn't it be best to have the fish-seaweed?


It was just the fish they sent me...but I didn't elaborate, just asked for a sample. Didn't think I was going to get a response lol. The fish and seaweed would be better. As for the difference just copied and pasted from the site:

_Seaweed Plant Food 0 &#8211; 0 &#8211; 1_
_Neptune's Harvest Seaweed Plant Food is an organic storehouse of over 60 naturally occurring major and minor nutrients and amino acids. It's growth promoting substances (Auxims, Cytokinins, Gibberellins) enhance plant development, color and vigor. Seaweed has also been found to increase plant hardiness and resistance to adverse environmental conditions, such as early frost, extreme heat and lack of moisture. Used as a seed inoculant, seaweed fertilizer increases and accelerates germination, and enhances the rapid development of a healthy root system. Seaweed is an excellent addition to any fertilization program.
_
_Hydrolyzed Fish 2 - 4 - 1_

_Neptune's Harvest is an organic fertilizer made from fresh North Atlantic fish. It is made by a unique cold process that protects the vitamins, amino acids, enzymes and growth hormones._

_It also contains all the micro and macro nutrients naturally found in fish. The nitrogen and other nutrients are chelated, so they are readily available for plants consumption. Unlike fish emulsions, Neptune's Harvest retains the fish proteins and oils and has no unpleasant odor. University studies have shown Neptune's Harvest to outperform chemical fertilizers.


_If you want more info than that, you'll have to Google! Lol, I'm too lazy . There's numerous articles on how fish and seaweed help cannabis though, and are a few on this site too.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 14, 2012)

I guess if you wanted to be exact with your nutes buying them separately would be better, but at $25 per quart I can't see 2 in 1 being a bad thing lol. Oh cool didn't know it wasn't fish emulsions. Yea, I specifically said I'd like a sample of the fish-seaweed fertilizer. They sent you a response or just the package?


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## Lady.J (Jun 14, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I guess if you wanted to be exact with your nutes buying them separately would be better, but at $25 per quart I can't see 2 in 1 being a bad thing lol. Oh cool didn't know it wasn't fish emulsions. Yea, I specifically said I'd like a sample of the fish-seaweed fertilizer. They sent you a response or just the package?


They responded...to ask me my address because I forgot to list it lol. Other than that, they didn't say anything. Showed up in the mail less than a week later. You can get it a lot cheaper on amazon if you decide to buy. I bought a quart for around 14 bucks, free shipping.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 15, 2012)

Ann just sent me and email saying she'd send it right out


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 15, 2012)

Any opinions on using the blossom booster for one watering then the fish-seaweed mix(that should arrive in a week or so) for the next watering? Until then I'll only be using the blossom booster every other watering, but I figured it's hard to burn with organics and the blossom booster is low on N so I may need to supplement the plant with some.


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## Lady.J (Jun 15, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Any opinions on using the blossom booster for one watering then the fish-seaweed mix(that should arrive in a week or so) for the next watering? Until then I'll only be using the blossom booster every other watering, but I figured it's hard to burn with organics and the blossom booster is low on N so I may need to supplement the plant with some.


It's supper hard to burn with organics. You have to be completely reckless to burn your plants lol (imo). Mix two caps to a gallons of water for starters, then move up to four. I'm just doing it once a week, think that's decent enough. Also considering using bloom every watering...


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 15, 2012)

Well the Blue Mammoth unlike the Northern Lights takes everything I've done to her pretty well, never deficient, never burning so I figure she should benefit from the increased N. I'm convinced now thanks to you and UB that plants need more N than the blossom boosters tend to give. 

Also I think I may switch from FFOF to roots organic. Still looking up comparisons and reviews, but I know La Diva only needs light fertilizer and that burn from FFOF has me worried even if I plan on using jiffy pellets for the seedling stage.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roots-Organics-Natural-Organic-Potting-Soil-1-5-cu-ft-/260659873146#shId
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ocean-Forest-Potting-Soil-1-5-cu-ft-natural-organic-mix-/300534580374?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo=SIC&its=I&itu=UCI%2BIA%2BUA%2BFICS%2BUFI&otn=21&pmod=260659873146&ps=54#ht_1293wt_905

I know no store in my area has roots and my nursury(unless they increased the price) has FFOF for $15, but hey no shipping charge it seems. Never used ebay before though I could be reading it incorrectly.

EDIT: Oh wait, is the price that says standard shipping the included price or are they really charging $27 dollars for shipping for an $18 product?


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## Lady.J (Jun 15, 2012)

Have heard good things about roots organic...but is kind of expensive! From what I understand, Fox Farm won't burn your plants if you don't put them into the soil until they're a few weeks old. I bought some FF cut with Happy Frog from ebay. Have the seedlings in seed started soil and will grow them in that until at least a few weeks pass! We'll see how it works out...


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 15, 2012)

Well I found a website that sells RO for $8, with shipping it ends up being $25. Roots Organics Soil .75 Cubic Feet Amazon has the same thing for $47. I don't even need the soil now, I still have maybe enough FFOF for a 1 gallon pot. I guess I got a little bit of time to figure out what I want lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 16, 2012)

Watered today with plain water. The BM has a little bit of nute burn. Most of the tips of the fan leaves are burnt. Just the tips though. In retrospect I did use the full strength of the recommended dose and that probably wasn't a good idea. I should of gone just a bit under. On the bright side all the yellowing and reddening of stems on the NL have stopped. I have 2 bottom fan leaves that are about 30% yellow, but besides that nothing else  Next watering will be with the blossom booster, but I'll go 1/2 or 3/4 strength.

I LST's the highest node on the BM, it was just getting too tall so I made it level with mode of the other nodes. You can't really see the length, butthe pistils are the BM are still just in pairs. They are around a cm long for most of em though. Starting to notice more pistils(preflowers if it's only the pair at the start of the node?) on the NL as well. Vertical growth has pretty much stopped for the NL and for the most part BM so I don't want to LST them too much simply because it won't make much of a difference. The top stem that I LST'd was like 3 inches higher than the others. Pretty cool that it took so well to the LST, it was the 4th-5th node from the top and it was higher than all others.

Whenever my fish-seaweed blend gets here I'll be watering with that by itself for one watering and the watering with the blossom booster the next. Any opinions on that? I'll continue going 12/12 until the end of this grow. Temps have been decent I guess, 84-88F. When I was the two 26w CFLs on the temp is 88 and they're maybe 2 inches from the acu-rite. I've confirmed that they raise the temp by 2 degrees by themselves. I lifted the 2 lights to the same height as the other bulbs. I found that the side growth was growing(which is great) into the bulbs and I didn't want to risk a burn. Middle growth is pretty packed too so it was pretty much take the lights out or raise em. One of these days I'll find a way to take a picture of the lights.

Besides that all is good. My room stinks, but I can't really smell it outside my room.

EDIT: Wow that last pic makes the girls look a lot better than they do irl lol.


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## Lady.J (Jun 16, 2012)

That last top shot is the shit! They look so good....can tell that you're really taking care of them 

For the bloom nutes, found out it's ideal to do one week of half veg / half bloom nutes in the same mix before going full on bloom. Of course I read this after the fact lol.

As for the fish and seaweed...are you using organic bloom nutes? If so, I would say that you can mix them together once a week. If your plants start showing that they need N, add more fish to the mix or up adding it to your water twice a week. That's just what I do though...


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 16, 2012)

Ikr, they really liked that LST, Scrog is probably more organized and neater though. I'll have to find a good method of getting it in the bin. Oh btw how did you velcro the bin? In order for me to take the plants out I have to take the entire top off. Just counted from the pic and BM has 18 tops and NL has 13  Some people don't like popcorn buds, I really don't care lol.

I'm going to get a sample of the seaweed-fish blend, but besides that I'm using synthetic fertilizer, Jack's Classic. I don't really have any veg nutes, well I have the 16-10-30 Veg+Bloom, but I haven't used it. I've been using(well once) all purpose(20-20-20) and bloom(10-30-20). I was using veg nutes I guess if you consider the urine mix and the 20-20-20 before that, veg nutes. I guess that's a good idea to ween it off the veg nutes instead of just switching. But yea as of right now I don't have any organic fertilizer, I'm still waiting on the sample.


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## HazyBlaze (Jun 16, 2012)

Cool man, subbed.


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## foreverflyhi (Jun 17, 2012)

Looking good homie!
i just harvested my bb x nl and wow super delicious!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 17, 2012)

Thanks,I'm surprised she got so big considering all I put her through lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 17, 2012)

Did a bit more LSTing. One of the Blue Mammoth's top nodes hit the 42w so needless to say it was burnt to a crisp. I cut it off and found 2 smaller bud sights below it. Hopefully they'll pop up now that they're the top. Figured while I was doing that I'd check on the NL. I LST'd I think 2 branches on that. The main stem is finally healed and I was able to LST one of the nodes above the break, was pretty bendable. The main 2 stems(one from each plant) I LST'd are in the middle of the bin getting hit mainly by the two 26w 2700ks that are in the middle and being blown on directly by the small 4" fan I have at the bottom of the bin. Hopefully they will perk up and have nice strong stems. 

The last picture is the 2nd node from the top on the NL. Figured it would be a good example to show how far along in flowering I am...Still looks like veg lol. this is week 8 I believe. Oh well only day 4 into 12/12. I am noticing some pistils on some of the branches.

Aesthetically wise this bitch is green and bushy as fuk lol.


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## Lady.J (Jun 17, 2012)

Very nice!


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## Flares (Jun 17, 2012)

Im following


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 18, 2012)

Watered the plants today. They must be root bound. I'm watering every 2 days and they're bone dry. I watered with the blossom booster(1-3-2) and used half strength(1/8 tsp) as opposed to full strength like last time. The container is 2 cups short of a gallon I think. Found a few dead leaves at the bottom of the Blue Mammoth. Two or three so not a lot and it was the leaves were at the very bottom. I guess I should of realized the burnt tips wouldn't recover just like if I had burnt them with a light. Took a few comparison pics. Also took one of the stem that had 2 nodes adjacent from each other(as opposed to alternating), should be interesting to see grow. I think I saw a few pistils on the top of the bud sites as opposed o just where the node starts. That or the pistils are really freaking long. Kind of disappointed that both my autos turned out to not be true autos. At this point I might as well of grown the Pineapple Chunk like I wanted.

Still haven't gotten my Fish-Seaweed blend, but I'm not in a rush or anything. I'll probably use the Veg+Bloom for my next grow. I heard since blossom nutes are low in N the plant will slow down it's vertical growth, which at this point is my main goal(besides getting these bitches to flower). The girls are just about at the top of the bottom bin. This is after I readjusted the stems with a bit more LSTing. Starting to get good at it if I don't say so myself.

Finally I took of pic of my lights. You can't see the 3rd 26w 2700k because the bin is on it's side and the light is behind the reflectors, but it's there.

Oh yea I think having the two 26w CFLs near the acu-rite made the temp read wrong. Highest temp I've had now is 84 since I moved it up to where the other lights are. The low was actually 73F in the bin last night, I think that's a first! Uncle Ben made a few posts on some thread I forgot to bookmark about how a reasonable difference in temp during light and dark hours is good for the plant. The guy isn't right about everything, but he grows pounds and his plants look awesome. Jorge even sent him an autographed book thanking him for the info he gave or something.

Oh I also had an Oreck XL air cleaner in my room. Usually I just have it on quiet on my dresser table. Figured the room was starting to smell a bit so I moved it there today and put it on level 2/3. We'll see if it works or not. I haven't replaced the filter in awhile.


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## foreverflyhi (Jun 18, 2012)

We both have different styles grows and setup, so I'm sure we should both have identical yield, but truth be told I'm sure u could get more, either way just remember keep it organic and she will reward you with some dank nugs!


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## Lady.J (Jun 18, 2012)

I knew UB knew his shit but didn't know that part about cervantes! That's awesome....plants are looking good Cloudz...did they need to be watered in the pics? Look just a little droopy. Don't be afraid to water them every day IF they need it. There are a lot of growers who have to do so!


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## HazyBlaze (Jun 18, 2012)

wtg Cloudz. Looking green, bro. LST, LST and LST. I am an LST fanatic. Low profile, even canopy, and lights nearly kissing the girlz


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 18, 2012)

foreverflyhi said:


> We both have different styles grows and setup, so I'm sure we should both have identical yield, but truth be told I'm sure u could get more, either way just remember keep it organic and she will reward you with some dank nugs!


The only thing that concerned me about a decent yield is I've been using a 1 gallon pot.


Lady.J said:


> I knew UB knew his shit but didn't know that part about cervantes! That's awesome....plants are looking good Cloudz...did they need to be watered in the pics? Look just a little droopy. Don't be afraid to water them every day IF they need it. There are a lot of growers who have to do so!


Well I put me finger maybe an inch into the soil yesterday and it seemed moist enough, they weren't drooping yesterday. Apparently most of the info jorge got from his book he got from the senior members of a forum UB and others use to moderate.



HazyBlaze said:


> wtg Cloudz. Looking green, bro. LST, LST and LST. I am an LST fanatic. Low profile, even canopy, and lights nearly kissing the girlz


Yea, I'm starting to love to LST. It's fun seeing how low I can get the branches without snapping them and getting them just in the right position to open up the canopy.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 19, 2012)

Gonna start checking the plants everyday. Pots are a bit lighter, I'll have to water tomorrow. Did a bit more LSTing, I love it lol. The middle light losts it's grip on the tape and fell for a few minutes by the looks of it. I was a secondary tape behind it so it didn't crash down on em. Burned a few fan leaves and the tip of one of the bud sights, just a little bit. The nodes in the middle are the tallest and almost the hardest to LST because the stems aren't that long yet. Finally getting some hairs on both the NL and BM ^_^ Also took a pic of my new favorite pair of nodes, I think it's cool they're growing at the same rate at the same height.

Going 1/2 strength was a good idea of the nutes. I noticed a little more burning on the tips although I'm not sure if that's just from the first full strength feeding.

Going by the pic I have 32 tops total, most of the tops are pretty even with the rest except for the few middle tops like I said. Should get a pretty awesome harvest ^_^


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 20, 2012)

Watered today with plain water, leaves were drooping again so I can only assume that they're drinking a LOT of water. Probably root bound. Looks like I may have to water every day. I'll change my feeding schedule to water-water-fertilizer just to be sure I don't get too much of a salt buildup or over fertilizer. I'll just be sure to do it with just a little bit of run off, not 10-15% as I usually do. Anyway to the more important part 

We have hairs ^_^ Not sure if it was there yesterday or they didn't to pop in last night, but who cares  If you assume these are photos(which starting to flower at week 8 usually means) that means today is day 1 of flowering. I heard a few times that it usually takes a week to 10 days for plants to actually flower after you switch the lights so this is just on schedule, sorta. Most of the pictures are from the Blue Mammoth. A few are from the Northern Lights, but you should be able to tell which because the NL doesn't have nearly as many hairs. Almost all the nodes on the Blue Mammoth look like the ones in the picture.

Successfully LST'd the top node on the Northern Lights so most of the bud sites are either level with the top or just a inch or two below it. I've been doing a pretty good job with LSTing if I do say so myself  Lights are about 2 inches from the highest node. Apparently I had a bit of burning, if that was this morning or yesterday I'm not sure. Luckily it only brushed against the fan leaf. I noticed a little bit of yellowing on the very bottom of the Blue Mammoth. My fish-seaweed blend hasn't arrived yet  so I really don't have a N high fertilizer. Should I go ahead and use the 16-10-30 Veg+Bloom for my next watering?

Fun fact: UB actually recommends Jack's Classic, but instead of the All Purpose(20-20-20) says get the one for Orchids(30-10-10) and the Blossom Booster(10-30-20).

Oh Lady how do you post pics in my post itself instead of having it as an attachment. I guess these sizes are fine, but my default size for the pictures is much bigger so it shows greater detail before I run it through the attachment manager.


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## millerino (Jun 20, 2012)

This is interesting - I'm growing the NLxBB auto too and planted at round about the same time as you (she poked her head up out of the soil on 5th May). I'll try to get time to take a pic of her this evening to let you have a look. It's my very first grow of any kind and I reckon she's doing well despite the many mistakes I've made. Your girl looks about a week ahead of mine. I didn't feed her or give her decent light until a good few weeks in (hangs head in shame) but it looks like a pretty damn resilient strain to survive me as a grower! Definitely looking forward to seeing your harvest mate


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 20, 2012)

Yea definitely post some pics. I've been looking around for anybody with grow start close to mine. I like how the strain looks at the end of harvest, but she's been so finicky. Nute burn at first and then a N deficiency later. How many watts you got goin?


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## sky rocket (Jun 20, 2012)

Just came across your journal. And funny thing is that I have the same freebie beans in my friends back yard. Mine are only a week old so I'm way behind you. Looking good man


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## Lady.J (Jun 20, 2012)

That veg + bloom is synthetic right? I'd probably use the pee method again instead of mixing synthetic with organic (since you're going to use the fish & seaweed). That's just me though! Is Jack's synthetic? If so, I'm surprised UB recommends them but hey, some ppl don't mind synthetic buds! 

As for posting pics...I made a ghost account on photobucket and upload my pics there...then link them on the forum. I use a digi camera instead of phone so don't need to worry about a scrubber program or anything like that. Also, makes it easier if you ever decide you want to remove pics of your grow...just delete the account instead of having to go back through all your old posts!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 20, 2012)

Which freebies are you growing? All of them?


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 20, 2012)

Lady.J said:


> That veg + bloom is synthetic right? I'd probably use the pee method again instead of mixing synthetic with organic (since you're going to use the fish & seaweed). That's just me though! Is Jack's synthetic? If so, I'm surprised UB recommends them but hey, some ppl don't mind synthetic buds!
> 
> As for posting pics...I made a ghost account on photobucket and upload my pics there...then link them on the forum. I use a digi camera instead of phone so don't need to worry about a scrubber program or anything like that. Also, makes it easier if you ever decide you want to remove pics of your grow...just delete the account instead of having to go back through all your old posts!


Yea Veg+Bloom is synthetic as well as Jack's. I think he said something about the ratio being correct, although he said he talked to Jack and he said that the P was a little too high, and the micro nutes being good too. I don't think there's anything wrong with synthetic. You have to be more exact on the amount you use, but usually it's cheaper and stronger which means more uses. For an experienced grower who has their stuff dialed in they're less likely to burn or overfeed to the point of needing a flush at the end of the harvest. UB actually doesn't flush at all.


Good idea for the ghost account. How big was your sample for the fish/seaweed? Something close to the size of the Veg+Bloom?


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## Lady.J (Jun 20, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Yea Veg+Bloom is synthetic as well as Jack's. I think he said something about the ratio being correct, although he said he talked to Jack and he said that the P was a little too high, and the micro nutes being good too. I don't think there's anything wrong with synthetic. You have to be more exact on the amount you use, but usually it's cheaper and stronger which means more uses. For an experienced grower who has their stuff dialed in they're less likely to burn or overfeed to the point of needing a flush at the end of the harvest. UB actually doesn't flush at all.
> 
> 
> Good idea for the ghost account. How big was your sample for the fish/seaweed? Something close to the size of the Veg+Bloom?


About 4 ounces or so...

There's nothing wrong with synthetics if you just want to smoke and aren't smoking for health reasons...but medical MJ doesn't make sense to be anything but organic, and my grow is for med reasons! Just like my veggies, I prefer to buy those that are grown organically and not with chemicals. Chems do messed up shit to your body! The more I read about organics, the more entrenched I become in the philosophy that it's the best way! Maybe I am wrong, and I know it's just my opinion, but I firmly believe it's superior. 

If you have some time and like to read, check out Teaming with Microbes - A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web.

Torrent - http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/68025177/?tab=summary

And if you dislike piracy, it's available on Amazon 

Just started reading it and it's awesome! So much I had no clue about! Ended up aerating some water in my 5 gal bucket to remove the chlorine, then going to start making my own tea...tea = no more ferts . I am going to use them together for now, but once I learn how to make the tea properly for veg, bloom, and to take care of deficiencies, won't be buying any more ferts.


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## Maine HomeGrown (Jun 20, 2012)

Just subbed my man, looking good wish I had found this journal back when it was started! I'm locked in now and about a week along with my auto grow. Looking forward to your results and good luck!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 20, 2012)

Ah that makes sense if you're doing it for med reasons. Cannabis helps my appetite(a lot), but it's not like I have a medical condition or anything. What chemicals are you talking about that are unhealthy though? I hear people who grow organically say that a chemical fertilizers are bad, but I've never heard what chemicals exactly. I'm more for organics just because I'm less likely to burn my plants and that taste may be affected if I don't flush properly.
Psh, I've I have demonoid, isohunt and pirate bay as bookmarks lol. I <3 piracy.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 20, 2012)

Maine HomeGrown said:


> Just subbed my man, looking good wish I had found this journal back when it was started! I'm locked in now and about a week along with my auto grow. Looking forward to your results and good luck!


How are you "locked in"? I was originally growing out of my closet for the first 2 weeks or so. Then I changed to what Lady J has.


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## Maine HomeGrown (Jun 20, 2012)

I'm locked in, like i'm checking your thread out? I thought it made sense.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 20, 2012)

Oh oh I thought you meant you couldn't change what you were doing since you said you wish you had found my grow when it started. My bad lol. Meh tbh my grow was probably more detailed in the beginning, but nothing but bad stuff happened lol. Thanks


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## Lady.J (Jun 20, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Ah that makes sense if you're doing it for med reasons. Cannabis helps my appetite(a lot), but it's not like I have a medical condition or anything. What chemicals are you talking about that are unhealthy though? I hear people who grow organically say that a chemical fertilizers are bad, but I've never heard what chemicals exactly.
> Psh, I've I have demonoid, isohunt and pirate bay as bookmarks lol. I <3 piracy.


This more or less explains why I don't like chemicals: 

_Synthetic fertilizers is a relatively modern invention. The Haber-Bosch process was invented in the early 20th century which combine nitrogen from the air with hydrogen at high temperature and pressure to create anhydrous ammonia (NH3), the basis for all synthetic nitrogen as well as munitions used in warfare.
_
_Synthetic fertilizers are now widespread in the agricultural business worldwide. This modern invention would seem to be the solution to all of our problems with having to rotate crops and being able to produce enough food to feed the whole world. Synthetic fertilizer is not without its problems however._


_Only a small portion of the nitrogen contained in the fertilizer applied to the soil will actually be absorbed by the plant. The remainder will run off into waterways where it creates massive algae blooms. These nitrate fed algae starve the water of oxygen which in turn leads to massive &#8216;dead zones&#8217; in lakes and oceans. Fish and aquatic animals are suffocated and whole ecosystems destroyed as a consequence. These &#8216;dead zones&#8217; have been expanding rapidly on a worldwide scale since 1995._
_Excess nitrates in the soil can convert to nitrosamines which have been shown to cause tumors in laboratory animals. Nitrate contaminated water has also been linked to reproductive problems, urinary and kidney disorders, and bladder and ovarian cancer._
_In order to produce synthetic fertilizers they need to use a high temperature source to combine nitrogen and hydrogen together. The most common fuel used to create this heat is natural gas. By using a non-renewable fuel source to grow plants we are supporting a non-sustainable method of farming that is actually accelerating the depletion of the earth&#8217;s resources instead of helping to build them up._
_Synthetic fertilizers end up depleting the soil of essential minerals. Farmers rely on these fertilizers rather than employing sustainable methods of farming that will build up the soil and lead to healthier fruits and vegetables._

http://plainlyliving.com/15/09/07/synthetic-fertilizers-whats-so-bad-about-them/

Cheap chemicals are usually made by equally cheap companies that like to cut corners an aren't adverse to introducing something harmful to you if they think it will improve their product. At least with the natural way, you know where the nutes are coming from, and it isn't from a lab...but from beneficial microbes. Think about all the bad things we learn several years later about some chems we liberally used and come to find out it has severely affected people's health...rather just avoid all that. Oh, and I want to start reusing my soil so synthetics is a no go!

Also in most veggies that are sold in supermarkets, they are grown with pesticides and fertilizers that are known to cause cancer. Fuck chemicals! 

Same thing with GMOs. Fuck them!

While I'm at it, fuck the police!

And I love piracy too lol


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## Maine HomeGrown (Jun 20, 2012)

Nice post Lady J and I as well love piracy all while saying Fuck Tha POlice. I'll add fuck the government to that while I'm on topic. Cloudz, it doesn't seem it got too bad and if it did you did a nice job of turning those girls around! Lookin' good from my end. This is an all CFL grow right?


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## foreverflyhi (Jun 20, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Yea Veg+Bloom is synthetic as well as Jack's. I think he said something about the ratio being correct, although he said he talked to Jack and he said that the P was a little too high, and the micro nutes being good too. I don't think there's anything wrong with synthetic. You have to be more exact on the amount you use, but usually it's cheaper and stronger which means more uses. For an experienced grower who has their stuff dialed in they're less likely to burn or overfeed to the point of needing a flush at the end of the harvest. UB actually doesn't flush at all.
> 
> 
> Good idea for the ghost account. How big was your sample for the fish/seaweed? Something close to the size of the Veg+Bloom?


Hey r u mixing synthetics with organics? 
When u mix ur feed do u adjust ph?


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## foreverflyhi (Jun 20, 2012)

Lady.J said:


> About 4 ounces or so...
> 
> There's nothing wrong with synthetics if you just want to smoke and aren't smoking for health reasons...but medical MJ doesn't make sense to be anything but organic, and my grow is for med reasons! Just like my veggies, I prefer to buy those that are grown organically and not with chemicals. Chems do messed up shit to your body! The more I read about organics, the more entrenched I become in the philosophy that it's the best way! Maybe I am wrong, and I know it's just my opinion, but I firmly believe it's superior.
> 
> ...


I read and reread this book many times 
highly rec this book for anyone that wants to master and understand organics, well said lady j
also making teas is one of the most rewarding and satisfying part of growing, but beware it can be very very tricky


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## foreverflyhi (Jun 20, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Ah that makes sense if you're doing it for med reasons. Cannabis helps my appetite(a lot), but it's not like I have a medical condition or anything. What chemicals are you talking about that are unhealthy though? I hear people who grow organically say that a chemical fertilizers are bad, but I've never heard what chemicals exactly. I'm more for organics just because I'm less likely to burn my plants and that taste may be affected if I don't flush properly.
> Psh, I've I have demonoid, isohunt and pirate bay as bookmarks lol. I <3 piracy.


Numerous things are wrong with chemicals (trying to stay calm)..
it's all about mother nature herself, using synthetics to grow ANYTHING Is straight raping mother nature in many ways, and that affects us directly as ppl
And to answer your question, all chemicals are bad  
ur doing great homie keep it organic


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## Lady.J (Jun 20, 2012)

foreverflyhi said:


> I read and reread this book many times
> highly rec this book for anyone that wants to master and understand organics, well said lady j
> also making teas is one of the most rewarding and satisfying part of growing, but beware it can be very very tricky


Nice, you just gave me more incentive to see it through! And you're not the first person I've heard say they've read it several times...looking forward to reading through it some more when it gets a little less noisy around my house. Hate reading with excessive noise...

Will be careful with the tea! Starting with just worm castings and unsulphered (sp) molasses...then going to build on that.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 20, 2012)

Holy shit it's more than just Lady J posting. I can finally multiquote  That's exactly what I was looking for Lady J thanks. I should of edited my post before ya'll went off on me lol. I did a quick google for EDTAs and found this on wikipedia: "EDTA is in such widespread use that it has emerged as a persistent organic pollutant.[SUP][24][/SUP] It degrades to ethylenediaminetriacetic acid, which then cyclizes to the diketopiperizide, a cumulative, persistent, organic environmental pollutant."


Maine HomeGrown said:


> Nice post Lady J and I as well love piracy all while saying Fuck Tha POlice. I'll add fuck the government to that while I'm on topic. Cloudz, it doesn't seem it got too bad and if it did you did a nice job of turning those girls around! Lookin' good from my end. This is an all CFL grow right?


This is a completely CFL grow Maine. Meh the light fell on the plants more than a few times and the plants had nute burns and heat stress for first 2 weeks of their life. Nothing killer, but it probably set me back a week or so.



foreverflyhi said:


> Hey r u mixing synthetics with organics?
> When u mix ur feed do u adjust ph?


I haven't touched my ph. I don't even have a ph meter. I haven't had any problems with any other plants in my garden. So far the only organic thing I've added is urine. I will be using the fish-seaweed blend whenever it gets here a few times because I'm noticing lower growth begin to yellow just a tad which I'm assuming is because of a combination of lack of light/very little N being added during waterings(blossom booster is 1-3-2). I'll probably continue using the blossom booster until the end of this grow. My next grow however will likely be 100% organic if I can find a good 2 part mix for veg and bloom. I don't feel like overpaying for name brand stuff like fox farms if I don't have to and I haven't really done any kind of research into it.


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## Lady.J (Jun 20, 2012)

Lmao I didn't mean to go off on you...but I really do hate chems. I love how you've been curious about going organic and asking me about it (which is flattering). You're smart enough to grow good plants no matter what method you use though


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## Lady.J (Jun 20, 2012)

By the way, you might like the tea method too...if I had been more brave, less frivolous, and informed, would have been using that instead of Fox Farm. With tea, you can dial in what your plant needs...and microbes do nothing short of amazing things for plants.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 20, 2012)

Is that in the torrent you linked? I'm no good with adobe reader, never really used it. Is there a way to turn all the pictures the correct way? I know I can probably do it for each picture individually. Only thing I'm mildly concerned about with the whole tea thing is the living room won't be mine alone when I move so I can't really have my stuff laying around there so it will have to be in my bedroom. Does it stink?


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## Lady.J (Jun 20, 2012)

Yup, it's the torrent I linked. Only the first couple pages are sideways...I spent 10 minutes trying to figure how to turn it before just scrolling down lmao. Glad I wasn't the only one . 

Just read yesterday if the tea stinks, it's being done wrong and has too much bacteria in it. Is supposed to smell sweet / earthy. Since I don't have a ton of plants, put 2 gallons of water in my 5 gallon...that way there won't be splashes of the mix anywhere from all the bubbles I got going on. I got the pump from wal-mart...I think it was 12 bucks and it has 2 nozzles for connection. 

I'll start sending what info I find your way, and if you start looking into it, please do the same for me!

Will do a post showing what I'm doing and what I learn in the closet grow thread.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 20, 2012)

Wow I just noticed you have max rep already and you've only been here about 2 months, nice. I guess I'll go googling, but do you have a link to start me off? Before you mentioned it I never even heard of it. I thought you guys were talking about the tea we drink at first lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 20, 2012)

Pages 24 to 84 are sideways >.< Stopped scrolling past that.


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## ThaProdiG (Jun 20, 2012)

that mammoth looks like a smaller version of mine... very green very resilient strain.... its basically the same look with out all the stress... beautiful man


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 20, 2012)

Post some pics! I haven't seen anybodies BM on the threads.


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## millerino (Jun 21, 2012)

I've done my grow on a serious budget. Started with no lights and just basic seedling compost (local hardware shop own brand). Got bits and pieces as I went along so she had a 125w 6400k CFL for vegging and I've just changed to a 125w 2700k for flowering. I'm only growing 1 plant and her name is Dorothy. She's around the same age as your girls and a NLxBB auto. She's getting fed Bio Bizz organic. 

Here's the pics as promised. Sorry they're not so good; just used my phone for them.


I'm hoping for a halfway decent amount of bud to tide me over til I get Dorothy's sister raised up  Second time should be easier!!


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## sky rocket (Jun 21, 2012)

sky rocket said:


> Just came across your journal. And funny thing is that I have the same freebie beans in my friends back yard. Mine are only a week old so I'm way behind you. Looking good man


Barney's - auto blue mammoth
Delicious seeds - auto northern light blue
Delicious seeds -Auto la diva (didn't root well, so I threw it away)
World of seeds -auto afghan kush ryder 

In germination . . . . 
Dinafem - auto cheese
World of seeds - auto northern lights x big bud


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 21, 2012)

Oh cool, gonna start a journal? Cheese seems pretty popular.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 21, 2012)

Hey Lady, how long from when you sent the email did you get that seaweed/fish fertilizer. It's been a week today since "Ann" told me she would send it. Should I send an email or just let it be?


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## Lady.J (Jun 21, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Hey Lady, how long from when you sent the email did you get that seaweed/fish fertilizer. It's been a week today since "Ann" told me she would send it. Should I send an email or just let it be?


I don't even remember to be honest. I wasn't expecting anything and never got a reply, it just showed up one day in the mail. I guess it doesn't hurt to write them. They'll either say it's in the mail or that they forgot and will send it soon lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 22, 2012)

Watered today with the blossom booster today. I think you'll notice something different about the plants  Hairs everywhere! Tried to take shots of the hairiest nodes, some came out, some didn't. I need to find my point and shoot, it has a smaller aperture and zoom which is better for macro pics. Nikon has a 18mm lens while the Olympus has a 4.7mm. The last 3 bud pics are of the Northern Lights. Just a bit behind the BM, but it's starting to kick off as well.

Anyway, watered with a good bit of run off. 3/4 gallon between two 1 gallon pots. I upped the dose on the fertilizer to 3/4. I was going to go for 1/2 again, but I noticed a few leaves yellowing on my Blue Mammoth. Well one leaflet had a bit of yellowing at the tip and I found another 2-3 dried up dead leaves on the bottom of the plant, pulled those of course. I'll probably do the urine watering again if my seaweed-fish fertilizer doesn't get here by the next watering. The pic of the yellowing leaf is actually one of leaves on the Northern Lights, that leaf was already yellow though, just a bit more so now. Also found one leaflet on the NL just a bit yellow too, as well as 1-2 dead leaves on the bottom. The idea that it's my ph doesn't seem too far fetched, but I did have all the symptoms of the N deficiency last time.

Not LSTing anymore as vertical growth has pretty much stopped completely. If you go by that auto's life cycle thread I linked awhile ago I'm really only a week behind. This is week 8 and the guy says bud production usually starts at week 7. I'm still going to keep it at 12/12 though just in case. At this point I'm just hoping to be done before August 10, which is when I move.

Oh I was googling my NLxBB and I found this website: http://www.cannabis-seeds.co.uk/, pretty cool as it gives a bit more detailed info compared to attitude seed's info. Assuming the info is correct it says my Blue Mammoth is 10-12% thc. Also says the Pineapple Chunk and Critical Kush I got for freebies are 25%, damn! Nothing on the NLxBB, but I would imagine 15%+ easy, considering it's Northern Lights.


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## Lady.J (Jun 22, 2012)

Looking good...nice to see the hairs coming out. I know you're relieved!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 22, 2012)

Very much so  , now the waiting is harder than before lol.


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## Lady.J (Jun 22, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Very much so  , now the waiting is harder than before lol.


lmao yup


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 22, 2012)

Just got the fish fertilizer(2-4-1). Wasn't the fish/seaweed(2-3-1) like I requested, but oh well free stuff. It's a 4oz container and the instructions say use 1oz per gallon. If I use it once a week like Lady J, that's 4 applications. Surprised that it's used for nitrogen considering it's so high in P. I'll be using it with my next watering(sunday assuming temps don't get too outrageous).


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## Lady.J (Jun 22, 2012)

Don't use one ounce per gallon!! It's too much...that info isn't tailored for cannabis. I would say to start with two cap fulls and slowly increase. 2-4-1 is still good, nice phosphorus for the plant at least. Am making a tea with it cuz I think I have a phos deficiency.


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## 10acjed (Jun 22, 2012)

Nice looking grow, and great strain selection, I like the X Big Bud strains...


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## foreverflyhi (Jun 23, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Just got the fish fertilizer(2-4-1). Wasn't the fish/seaweed(2-3-1) like I requested, but oh well free stuff. It's a 4oz container and the instructions say use 1oz per gallon. If I use it once a week like Lady J, that's 4 applications. Surprised that it's used for nitrogen considering it's so high in P. I'll be using it with my next watering(sunday assuming temps don't get too outrageous).


Use that stuff by itself and never with the blossom booster, like lady said use less then half what it recommends, then from there build up.
those numbers are really good, especially for veg/flowering transition.
Also would like to add that a ph is something u should invest in, especially when it comes down to understanding how plants grow, and it's kinda fun just checking random waters ph....
What kind of medium are u using?


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 23, 2012)

soil, ffof. Yea I think my next buy is going to be a ph meter. I just don't plan on buying it for this grow.


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## brettsog (Jun 23, 2012)

looking good man, keep it up.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 23, 2012)

Checked the weight of the pots and they were pretty dry so I decided to water today. Used 2 tablespoons(couldn't find something in ounces) or 1oz of the fish fertilizer, gonna have to say it stinks like fish, what a surprise  It's like 91 today...Shit sucks...High tomorrow is supposed to be 96. So far the temp has been steady at 86F, lights off usually puts me 10 degrees lower than what the high is. Didn't really feel like doing a photo shoot today so I just took a pic of one of the buds on the Blue mammoth, one of the Northern Lights(out of focus, I know) and one of em together. Highest node is about a cm above the top of the bottom bin. I can raise my lights another 6 inches or so. If by that point they get too high I'll switch the two 6500k 42w lights to 26w 2700k. I've got one on each reflector.

Oh I had a little bit of water left oven and went to water my regular plants outside and I smelled my neighbor below me smoking some of that reefer(who actually calls it that anymore) lol. Smelt pretty bad though, like resin.


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## brettsog (Jun 24, 2012)

i picked up a nice bit of cheese wreck from my guy last night and my god. the other half of the spliff is still in the ashtray lol


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 24, 2012)

You euros and your spliffs lol. Never understood the whole liking tobacco with your weed thing. Never had cheese _wreck _before, just cheese.


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## Lady.J (Jun 24, 2012)

Spliffs are the shit! You ever have weed so strong that you can't hold it in your lungs...just blow it right back out? Tobacco cuts it so it's more manageable. And it helps you save weed.

I'm guessing chesse wreck is cheese + trainwreck? Man can only imagine lol. One of these days I will try!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 24, 2012)

Nah for weed that's hard to hit, I use my ice bong. Idk, with all the dangers that come with using tobacco and the fact that I like to taste weed and just weed I'm not that much of a fan of spliffs. The weed saving part I can understand though(just use a pipe!). I'm not one for rolling anyway so that may have something to do with it as well.


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## Lady.J (Jun 24, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Nah for weed that's hard to hit, I use my ice bong. Idk, with all the dangers that come with using tobacco and the fact that I like to taste weed and just weed I'm not that much of a fan of spliffs. The weed saving part I can understand though(just use a pipe!). I'm not one for rolling anyway so that may have something to do with it as well.


I smoke outside a lot so a bong is not a good idea...like to smoke wherever I go lol. In europe you're always walking and on the move, nice to be able to sit on a bench in a park and pull out a spliff. From a distance it looks like a cigarette. As for pipes...yea they get you high with a little weed...but I've come realize that I gradually like getting high. Not a big harsh shot all at once. And if you roll it right, you only have to light it once or twice. Rolling isn't so hard. It's easier to roll king size papers and with a filter...can't roll with small american papers to save my life. Rather smoke a pipe than smoke those lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 24, 2012)

Well anytime I roll I use blunt paper so it's usually pretty large. Although I did get king sized papers from this years 4/20 sale from attitude so I might try my hand at it depending on the size of this harvest  Can't argue with not smoking a bong while walking lol. I'm trying to *not* go to jail though so at least here in the states smoking weed in the public is asking for it. I gotta move to a MMJ state soon lol.

Oh some guy made a thread about these and I did some quick looking around. What do you think? http://www.amazon.com/Febreze-04530F-Odor-Removal-Appliance/dp/B000H0Y4XM/ref=sr_1_16?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1340550605&sr=1-16&keywords=True+Air++Odor+Eliminator, http://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Febreze-04291F-Removal-Tobacco/dp/B004362I66/ref=pd_sim_hg_6.

I know smell isn't an issue for you, but it will be for me when I move near the college. Apparently it uses 3 carbon filters. It comes with the standard ones, but they have scented replacements or extra strength. scented are around 10 bucks, but I figured the extra strength would be cool too.


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## Lady.J (Jun 24, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Well anytime I roll I use blunt paper so it's usually pretty large. Although I did get king sized papers from this years 4/20 sale from attitude so I might try my hand at it depending on the size of this harvest  Can't argue with not smoking a bong while walking lol. I'm trying to *not* go to jail though so at least here in the states smoking weed in the public is asking for it. I gotta move to a MMJ state soon lol.
> 
> Oh some guy made a thread about these and I did some quick looking around. What do you think? http://www.amazon.com/Febreze-04530F-Odor-Removal-Appliance/dp/B000H0Y4XM/ref=sr_1_16?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1340550605&sr=1-16&keywords=True+Air++Odor+Eliminator, http://www.amazon.com/Hamilton-Febreze-04291F-Removal-Tobacco/dp/B004362I66/ref=pd_sim_hg_6.
> 
> I know smell isn't an issue for you, but it will be for me when I move near the college. Apparently it uses 3 carbon filters. It comes with the standard ones, but they have scented replacements or extra strength. scented are around 10 bucks, but I figured the extra strength would be cool too.


You're right about smoking outside in the states . Few places to do it at without looking out of place. People don't seem to just casually be outside walking around smoking a cigg in the South. Easy to stand out.

Those plug-in filters seem pretty good, nice price too. They would probably do a small grow a lot of good! Maybe I will get some just to have my apt smell better in general lol. My man's mom pulled a surprise stop by our place and I just know she had to smell the ganja lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 24, 2012)

What's even worse is my college is tobacco free(beyond stupid) so I can't even fake it looking like a cig.

Heh, if your smell is anywhere near mine and you don't do anything about it I'm sure she did lol. It doesn't stink to me though, maybe it's because I smoke. Non-smokers think weed stinks usually. Product info says it last 90 days, so I'll assume it _works_ for about 60 lol. Wal-mart has em too apparently: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Hamilton-Beach-TrueAir-Plug-Mount-Odor-Eliminator/16672675, as well as the filters: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Hamilton-Beach-Febreze-Tobacco-Odor-Filter/16879588. Cheap and I don't have to pay for shipping because there's a wal-mart like 5 miles away lol.


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## Lady.J (Jun 24, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> What's even worse is my college is tobacco free(beyond stupid) so I can't even fake it looking like a cig.
> 
> Heh, if your smell is anywhere near mine and you don't do anything about it I'm sure she did lol. It doesn't stink to me though, maybe it's because I smoke. Non-smokers think weed stinks usually. Product info says it last 90 days, so I'll assume it _works_ for about 60 lol. Wal-mart has em too apparently: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Hamilton-Beach-TrueAir-Plug-Mount-Odor-Eliminator/16672675, as well as the filters: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Hamilton-Beach-Febreze-Tobacco-Odor-Filter/16879588. Cheap and I don't have to pay for shipping because there's a wal-mart like 5 miles away lol.


Oh yea if wal-mart has them then I'm def picking them up.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 25, 2012)

Lady.J said:


> Don't use one ounce per gallon!! It's too much...that info isn't tailored for cannabis. I would say to start with two cap fulls and slowly increase. 2-4-1 is still good, nice phosphorus for the plant at least. Am making a tea with it cuz I think I have a phos deficiency.


Haha totally missed this post, oops! I'll make sure I do 2 cap fulls next time.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 25, 2012)

Watered the plants today with plain water. I'm starting to seriously run out of room so I re adjusted *all* the stems that were LST'd. Saved myself maybe an inch off the top for the most part. I cracked one stem just a little bit  put some honey on the crack, taped it up and kept going. I probably have 5 or so more inches of space I can lift the lights up to. Maybe this is the stretch lol, internodal spacing is about 2 inches per node. Got minor light burns on a top. It caught mostly the fan leaf and the edge of the calyx. Temps have been kind of high 84-88F and there's some slight drooping on a few of the top nodes. Next watering will be with 1-3-2 blossom booster.


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## Lady.J (Jun 25, 2012)

Yup, you're going through the stretch!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 25, 2012)

With about 5 inches left of room how much do you think they'll stretch? If I run out of room(lights raised to make height) what would you suggest me doing? I suppose I could LST the top nodes again, but that's all I can think of. Right now I'm pretty much just pulling down where the branch begins lowering the entire thing a little bit. Would concentrating on the top nodes be a better idea?


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## Lady.J (Jun 25, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> With about 5 inches left of room how much do you think they'll stretch? If I run out of room(lights raised to make height) what would you suggest me doing?


Hmmm...I think they will stretch those full 5 inches....maybe you could find a way to secure a screen over them? Scrogging is pretty easy, and it allows you to isolate the buds for an even canopy. I don't think it's too late...other than that, you would have to get real creative with your lst...or get a cardboard box from U-haul to accommodate the growth. 

Here's a link to an amazing cardboard box grow with CFLs. Was truly impressed! https://www.rollitup.org/cfl-fluorescent-lighting/380156-4th-cfl-grow-jungle-growth.html


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 25, 2012)

How did you make your screen? Or did you just buy it? I really really *really *don't want to have to build a whole new grow space.


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## Lady.J (Jun 25, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> How did you make your screen? Or did you just buy it? I really really *really *don't want to have to build a whole new grow space.


Yea I understand that. But if it comes to that in the end...if they just stretch too hard...it's really easy to take what you already have and put it in a cardboard set up. I know it's not ideal, but you do have a fall back! I didn't make my screen...I ordered it like a dummy before realizing that you can get it at wal-mart or lowe's. It's just trellis netting, can find it in the garden section. I wasn't very creative or efficient about finding a way to secure it. I stuck bamboo stick in the soil and zip-tied bunch of different parts of the screen to the sticks to stretch it tight. It's probably better to fashion a frame, but whatever you do...just make sure you can remove your plants from the box. I had the netting running outside to stretch tight and get the most space possible, so the under growth got a little neglected without me realizing. I had dead leaves just chillin' on top of the soil asking to get moldy!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 25, 2012)

Alright, well wal-mart and home depot has the trellis netting. As far as getting the screen across the entire bin I'm not quite sure how to do that. I read a few posts about using zip ties like you said. My pots are circle shaped though so can't really make an even net with them. If I could get something to stick to the corners I could put sticks or something on each of the corners, zip tie the net to the sticks and have it that way. Just not sure what would be secure enough. If I had a power drill I would just make a frame, but I don't  Even then I couldnt see how I could get the frame to stay in place.


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## Lady.J (Jun 25, 2012)

Why do you need a drill to make a frame? Use a good old fashioned hammer and nails. Or tie / tape some sticks together.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 25, 2012)

I actually lack the hammer and nails lol. I guess I could buy a hammer, use it and then return it. I actually thought of using sticks on the corners with the gorilla tape, would that be secure enough? If have these super long bamboo chopsticks that could work and I already have the tape. I would just have to go out and buy the trellis.


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## Lady.J (Jun 25, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I actually lack the hammer and nails lol. I guess I could buy a hammer, use it and then return it. I actually thought of using sticks on the corners with the gorilla tape, would that be secure enough? If have these super long bamboo chopsticks that could work and I already have the tape. I would just have to go out and buy the trellis.


I think that the sticks could work...don't really know thought to be honest, it'd depend on how you fashioned it.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 25, 2012)

I have a better idea, I use the cover of the sterlite bin, cut out the middle part, tape the trellis to the edges and somehow make sure the top of the bin doesn't fall off when I try to put it back on. Only issue would be that the cover would make the edges of the bin a different size than the top bin so it wouldn't be flush. I might have to do some taping/velcroing to make sure it stays.


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## Lady.J (Jun 25, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I have a better idea, I use the cover of the sterlite bin, cut out the middle part, tape the trellis to the edges and somehow make sure the top of the bin doesn't fall off when I try to put it back on. Only issue would be that the cover would make the edges of the bin a different size than the top bin so it wouldn't be flush. I might have to do some taping/velcroing to make sure it stays.


That's a good idea...how are you going to work around getting to your plants? The screen needs to be secured and never moved, but you also still have to be able to water and tend your ladies.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 25, 2012)

Well how did you do it when you had the screen installed?


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## Lady.J (Jun 25, 2012)

This marks the point in my thread where I secured the screen: https://www.rollitup.org/stealth-micro-cab-growing/520029-first-time-grower-experimenting-cfl-27.html


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 25, 2012)

From the pics it looks like the screen is attached to the sticks which are attached to the pot. I'm guessing you just watered over the screen?


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## Lady.J (Jun 25, 2012)

Look at the bottom...notice that the screen isn't attached to anything, there is space. Left myself some to fit under. But again, this is probably not the best way, especially during flowering. You really need to be able to freely get under your plants and see everything that's going on. Things can easily hide from you. That's why I removed it! If you could figure a way to put the trellis over the pots individually, then you can freely lift them from the box. I'm sure you'll figure out something!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 25, 2012)

Hmm maybe I'll take a trip to wal-mart tomorrow and see if anything pops out at me. I'm not too concerned about checking my plants so much as watering from above while I had buds isn't a good idea. I'll take a look tomorrow as well about some possible LSTing to buy me a little time. I might be able to possible put a trellis over each pot with some sticks similar to yours, but at this point the entire bin is filled so I would need to cover a wider area than the size of the pot.

Maybe getting a hose or some sort of tubing and watering that way. Stick the hole in the center of the pot, below the buds at least and water. Now sure how I would force the water to leave to container though. Maybe like a water bottle with a hole in the cap for the tube with gum or something to make sure it's water tight. Stick the tube down and turn the water bottle over. Guess I've got something to do tomorrow lol


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## Lady.J (Jun 25, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Hmm maybe I'll take a trip to wal-mart tomorrow and see if anything pops out at me. I'm not too concerned about checking my plants so much as watering from above while I had buds isn't a good idea. I'll take a look tomorrow as well about some possible LSTing to buy me a little time. I might be able to possible put a trellis over each pot with some sticks similar to yours, but at this point the entire bin is filled so I would need to cover a wider area than the size of the pot.
> 
> Maybe getting a hose or some sort of tubing and watering that way. Stick the hole in the center of the pot, below the buds at least and water. Now sure how I would force the water to leave to container though. Maybe like a water bottle with a hole in the cap for the tube with gum or something to make sure it's water tight. Stick the tube down and turn the water bottle over. Guess I've got something to do tomorrow lol


It just really doesn't sound like a good idea to not be able to take them out...your canopy will get so thick that you wouldn't be able to water through it...and it's not good to water in just one spot...need to water as evenly around the pot as possible and try to avoid getting water right next to the stem because it can lead to rot. It was easier for me to water because I had space under the canopy and was using a rectangular pot. Also can easily miss a dead leaf under the canopy and have it lead to mold! My plants weren't as big as they are now when I removed the screen and was very surprised by all the stuff under it that I was unable to see.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 25, 2012)

Well then the only way I see a SCROG working so late into flowering is if I run 1 net per plant and try my best to make sure it's spread out enough. The branches are probably 5-6 inches away from the edge of the pot. The plants combined pretty much take up all of the 2 1/2 feet. I agree about it being a bad idea to not be able to take em out. I'm guessing it wouldn't be a good idea to detach the screen every time I have to water.


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## Lady.J (Jun 25, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Well then the only way I see a SCROG working so late into flowering is if I run 1 net per plant and try my best to make sure it's spread out enough. The branches are probably 5-6 inches away from the edge of the pot. The plants combined pretty much take up all of the 2 1/2 feet. I agree about it being a bad idea to not be able to take em out. I'm guessing it wouldn't be a good idea to detach the screen every time I have to water.


You won't be able to detach the screen without destroying your plants. They will grow through it...you end up having to push leaves and branches back under the trellis while guiding the buds through the holes. The only way to safe remove it would be to cut the plants out. Scrogs aren't removable. There's gotta be some kinda way to attach trellis to the plants...it would be effective imo even if you can't use the entire space.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 26, 2012)

Well I raised the lights another 2 inches. Plants grew into the lights again >.< I thought I had already been through the stretch... Also looking at LEDs. 

There's a few good ones like the Pro-Glow 180w, but it's $300. Not unaffordable, but more than I'd like to pay for a 2 plant grow. I was expecting 200-250. According to blackstar's website if a 90w is close equivalent to a 300w HID then a 130-180w should be good. I'm not trying to grow pounds lol. A 135w is only $180 and uses 3w chips, just like the PG180. Only thing that concerns me with using LEDs for a micro is space. Most LEDs say they should be put around a mimunum of 10-14" away from the canopy. With the bin I've got probably about 2 1/2 feet from the bottom. That means I would pretty much have to keep the plant from getting above where the top bin starts. Not impossible, but I would probably have to switch to using a bed instead of individual pots for height issues. The 1 gallon pots I have now are about 8" tall. There's good and bad things about using a bed. Good thing is the height would be much smaller and I would let me easily use a scrog like Lady had. Bad thing is if I have any plant issues(nute burns, deficiency, bugs, etc) any way I treat one plant I must treat the other the same way.

If summer taught me one thing it's that heat is a major problem. If next summer is anything like this one(likely hotter) then my only options will be using less CFLs or keeping the a/c on for longer. While energy consumption won't be an issue during the school year at my new residence I will be returning home for the summer(saves on rent, middle of nowhere city with nothing going on except the college which is closed for the summer).

Hmm I think I'll check wal-mart and the dollar store for gardening beds. How many gallons do you think your bed was Lady? Or how many inches at least. Depending on the yield of this grow I may only grow 1 plant next. Half an oz will on average last me 10-12 weeks(Currently cold turkey for 2 months now so it's all out of my system) which is long enough for another grow. I don't asking for half an oz between 2 plants is asking too much.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 26, 2012)

Did some LSTing. The pics don't do it justice, but the ones I did LST were probably a good 2 inches higher than the rest of the tops. Figured out that I should wait 24 hours after watering before I LST. The stems were much more bendable. I probably tied down 3 stems on the Blue Mammoth and 4 on the Northern Lights. Maybe it's just the smell of growing weed or me, but the Blue Mammoth kind of smells a bit like coffee.

I'm really not seeing a way I can SCROG this late into flowering. The tops aren't even and I've got a lot of smaller nodes 4-5 inches below the highest tops. I actually cut off 2 of the smaller nodes. I know, I know I'm wrong for doing it. I just cut off the top of it though where the node was growing. I only lost the top 4 smallest leaves, tried my best to leave most of em on. At this point I'm fighting for space although with the LST I did buy myself about another 2 inches lol. So I've got around 4 inches from the nearest light and I can raise the lights another 3" or so.

Decided that when I get my refund check I'll go ahead and buy the Black Star 180w if the price remains at $229(free shipping, no tax). http://www.amazon.com/Lighthouse-Hydro-BlackStar-Light-Flowering/dp/B004E636HK/ref=pd_sbs_lg_1 I get it a month after classes start so I'll be around 1 month into my grow when I get it.


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## Lady.J (Jun 26, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Did some LSTing. The pics don't do it justice, but the ones I did LST were probably a good 2 inches higher than the rest of the tops. Figured out that I should wait 24 hours after watering before I LST. The stems were much more bendable. I probably tied down 3 stems on the Blue Mammoth and 4 on the Northern Lights. Maybe it's just the smell of growing weed or me, but the Blue Mammoth kind of smells a bit like coffee.
> 
> I'm really not seeing a way I can SCROG this late into flowering. The tops aren't even and I've got a lot of smaller nodes 4-5 inches below the highest tops. I actually cut off 2 of the smaller nodes. I know, I know I'm wrong for doing it. I just cut off the top of it though where the node was growing. I only lost the top 4 smallest leaves, tried my best to leave most of em on. At this point I'm fighting for space although with the LST I did buy myself about another 2 inches lol. So I've got around 4 inches from the nearest light and I can raise the lights another 3" or so.
> 
> Decided that when I get my refund check I'll go ahead and buy the Black Star 180w if the price remains at $229(free shipping, no tax). http://www.amazon.com/Lighthouse-Hydro-BlackStar-Light-Flowering/dp/B004E636HK/ref=pd_sbs_lg_1 I get it a month after classes start so I'll be around 1 month into my grow when I get it.


I hope you can manage the space! I guess we'll see with time. The stretch is supposed to be 2-3 weeks, and then the colas will get longer as they build up. 

Would love to see you do an LED grow...things work out and might have to join your LED squad lol


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 26, 2012)

Wow they are really late flowering for autos then. No way I'm gonna hit the 11 week mark and be finished. This is like a normal photo. I hope the Afgan Kush Ryder isn't like this >.< I pretty much vegged for a month and a half with these.


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## Lady.J (Jun 26, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Wow they are really late flowering for autos then. No way I'm gonna hit the 11 week mark and be finished. This is like a normal photo. I hope the Afgan Kush Ryder isn't like this >.< I pretty much vegged for a month and a half with these.


Yea 

Have been hearing a lot of people complaining about this with autos. That's why I think it's just easier to do 12/12 with a fem or reg seed.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 26, 2012)

Well depending on this yield(and if I have to prune some nodes...) I might just run the 1 AKR and then after that the 12/12 for Critical Kush. The bin is pretty decently light proof so during the dark hours I really don't notice much light. That was the main reason I went with autos, supposedly quick harvests and the fact that light leaks weren't an issue. Photos are usually cheaper and they have a broader selection anyway.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 26, 2012)

Thought of another way to get some more room, the holes are the top are just barely too small to fit the part where the reflector begins, if I cut the whole a little larger I could be able to raise the reflectors(which at this point are hindering the grow rather than helping) another 3-4 inches. Really not sure how I'll deal with 2 weeks of this lol. Not even sure the grow will be finished b august 10th if I have a 2 week stretch period.


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## Lady.J (Jun 26, 2012)

You did anticipate about 8-10 weeks for flowering right? MJ usually stretches those first 2- 3 weeks. I believe it's the same with autos? I read in one or two places that you should expect a later harvest time than usual with CFLs too. Well even if you have to chop early, they'll probably still be good!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 26, 2012)

No lol, autos usually take about 70-75 days from seed. The advantage of ruderalis cannabis is that it flowers quicker and regardless of the light cycle.


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## Lady.J (Jun 26, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> No lol, autos usually take about 70-75 days from seed. The advantage of ruderalis cannabis is that it flowers quicker and regardless of the light cycle.


That pretty much sounds like the growth cycle of a 12 / 12 from seed reg seed. If the autos don't start showing sex when they're supposed to and only flower under 12/12, seems like a big waste. A 12/12 reg seed will probably yield better than an auto having to be kept at 12/12 instead of 18/6 or am I wrong? I'm assuming off of the little I've heard about them so wouldn't surprise me to be wrong. Just hear a lot of people saying they have to put them on 12/12 to get them to flower, doesn't seem like they're a sure thing!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 26, 2012)

Well an auto that doesn't show sex in the first few weeks is a photo. Even a few generations down the line autos may still have a small chance of being photo, it's just a chance that you get bad genetics. The thing that keeps autos size so small is their lack of vegetative growth. Just being an "auto" doesn't make them small. I vegged for a little more than a month before I flipped to 12/12 so all intents and purposes my plants are photos. World of Seeds actually has very good reviews and has been around for awhile so I was surprised at it not being an auto. Blue Mammoth was released on 4/20 and barney's seeds aren't always that great so I guess it's not fair to say they're still working out the kinks. Unless you're talking about Nirvana I'm not sure where you heard that a lot of autos have to be put on 12/12.

Also as far as autos being small it really depends on your grow. Check this thread out https://www.rollitup.org/auto-flowering-strains/485873-auto-flower-bud-porn.html


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## Lady.J (Jun 26, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Well an auto that doesn't show sex in the first few weeks is a photo. Even a few generations down the line autos may still have a small chance of being photo, it's just a chance that you get bad genetics. The thing that keeps autos size so small is their lack of vegetative growth. Just being an "auto" doesn't make them small. I vegged for a little more than a month before I flipped to 12/12 so all intents and purposes my plants are photos. World of Seeds actually has very good reviews and has been around for awhile so I was surprised at it not being an auto. Blue Mammoth was released on 4/20 and barney's seeds aren't always that great so I guess it's not fair to say they're still working out the kinks. Unless you're talking about Nirvana I'm not sure where you heard that a lot of autos have to be put on 12/12.
> 
> Also as far as autos being small it really depends on your grow. Check this thread out https://www.rollitup.org/auto-flowering-strains/485873-auto-flower-bud-porn.html


If you start a plant 12/12 from seed, it skips the 'normal' veg time too and finishes around the same time as an auto...so which one yields more and / or is more potent? Am curious to know that! See other advantages too like less energy consumption (since 12/12 duration of grow), and much more variety in strain.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 26, 2012)

Nope, from what I read from a few vets it the plant vegs for about 3 weeks and then starts flowering. If you measure potency the Afgan Kush that World of Seeds sells is labeled at 22% while the Afgan Kush Ryder is also labeled at 22%. Without getting into genetics the loss of thc from using a parent autoflower is negligible because the strains we buy are usually 8-10 generations down the line. This topic is actually talked a lot about on the indoor growing/autoflower and general growing sections of RIU. If you give me a few minutes I probably could find 3 of em lol. Can't deny energy consumption and variety is only because autos are newer than photos. There's still plenty of strains. I bet there's a sour kush auto and I know there's a skunk auto.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 26, 2012)

Found a few and yes there is a sour kush auto and a skunk out by sensi seeds. I'm sure there's some strains that autos don't have, but most of the popular strains(Northern Lights, White Widow, Skunk, etc) have auto counterparts.
https://www.rollitup.org/auto-flowering-strains/530316-question-about-auto.html, https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/199319-autoflower-thread-resource-guide.html, https://www.rollitup.org/auto-flowering-strains/535744-forceflowering-versus-autoflowers-pros-experience.html, http://www.autoflower.net/forums/f2/autoflower-v-s-12-12-seed-4366.html, http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56366


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## Lady.J (Jun 26, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Found a few and yes there is a sour kush auto and a skunk out by sensi seeds. I'm sure there's some strains that autos don't have, but most of the popular strains(Northern Lights, White Widow, Skunk, etc) have auto counterparts.
> https://www.rollitup.org/auto-flowering-strains/530316-question-about-auto.html, https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/199319-autoflower-thread-resource-guide.html, https://www.rollitup.org/auto-flowering-strains/535744-forceflowering-versus-autoflowers-pros-experience.html, http://www.autoflower.net/forums/f2/autoflower-v-s-12-12-seed-4366.html, http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56366


Appreciate the links! Going to give them a look tonight. Have a few auto flowers...cheese from Dinafem is the one that sticks out in my mind. Have so many reg seeds I want to grow out first though...I need more space! I'm considering a cardboard box plant city in my dining room


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 26, 2012)

Cheese is pretty popular, not sure about it's thc content though. I've only had it once and I wasn't a fan of the taste. Yea if this stretch grows too much I'll probably look getting a big one. Won't be very hard to cut holes for the exhaust and intake and I probably could do it with one super huge box. Cutting the tops is kind of a last resort.


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## Lady.J (Jun 26, 2012)

Yea I feel you on that. And if you make a cardboard box, then you have two grow areas to play with. Once I saw the closet was a viable option, I got over anxious at the possibilities...and now I have 4 other plants growing lol. This shit is addicting! But I love it. 

Oh and guess what I read not too long ago? LSTing an autoflower can cause delay of flowering and the necessity for 12/12. Apparently it's best to let it grow straight up. Will try to find the link.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 26, 2012)

Well I actually started LSTing *after* I switched to 12/12. A week after actually. That's interesting because I've seen people recommend LSTing instead of topping, fimming, super cropping, etc because the latter causes stress while LST doesn't. Interested on how it would delay it.


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## foreverflyhi (Jun 27, 2012)

I can stop smoking this norther lights big bud!! I'm down to about 20 grams left!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 27, 2012)

How's it taste?


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 27, 2012)

Found this: https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/61641-my-35-day-old-mid.html, but the real gem is: https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/10004-how-not-grow-dope.html


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## BBbubblegum (Jun 27, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Found this: https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/61641-my-35-day-old-mid.html, but the real gem is: https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/10004-how-not-grow-dope.html


GP420, I love getting baked and reading the whole thing.


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## Flaming Pie (Jun 27, 2012)

Hey Cloudz, you're reaching the 8 weekmark! Can we see some pics of your girls?


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 27, 2012)

I took pics yesterday lol. https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/525136-northern-lights-x-bb-auto-41.html


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## Flaming Pie (Jun 27, 2012)

I just ordered my seeds! I'm excited... and a little nervous lol


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 27, 2012)

It's all good man it's your first time and you probably shelled out some good money for some seeds. I actually like gardening even if it's not weed so win or lose it's all pretty fun to me.


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## Lady.J (Jun 27, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Found this: https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/61641-my-35-day-old-mid.html, but the real gem is: https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/10004-how-not-grow-dope.html


Read how not to grow dope before...but the other one was hilarious. I can't believe someone's plant looking like that after 35 days...I kept reading through the thread too...guy really has no clue. It's so bad I almost suspected it being fake for a while.


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## millerino (Jun 28, 2012)

Hey again Cloudz. How's the girl coming along?

I'm getting a bit frustrated - seems like the flowering has been stuck at the same point for a week or more. I've been feeding the flowering nutes at about half strength. Maybe I ought to go the whole hog and give her full strength. Just wondering if you're going through the same. This is my first grow but my partner lived in Holland for years and has loads of experience with photo plants and is getting a bit worried now about the lack of bud action!! So I was wondering if the strain might have anything to do with the little stall in flowering. It looks like an 11 week finish is a bit ambitious.

She's also shot up a bit (looks like the top cola getting way taller) and is higher than I can hang the lights! LOL!! Shame on me, I was too scared to do any training on my first grow but now I've had to hang the light next to her rather than above which isn't helping either. It does look like the lower buds are coming on a bit better, though. (I haven't had to hold her up with a plastic fork yet though  )

Also, a few piccies. You'll see what I mean about the light. She stopped vertical growth for a number of days. "End of vegging" I thought. Great, I'll have room but she shot up about a foot since flowering started.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 28, 2012)

Nah, my girls are still stretching, about an 1/2 an inch a day. Also I would make a thread in Newbie Central. I'm far from an expert and have no idea what the problem could be.


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## millerino (Jun 29, 2012)

Hey, no problems! I just thought that maybe you'd seen the same thing happen with your NLxBB auto. Anyhoo, she seems to have picked up the pace overnight and I can actually see some signs of faster bud production now. Hope you're getting somewhere with your girl.

I think the frustration comes from living on rationed weed while we wait for her to do her thing and just wanting to smoke it!!! lol


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 29, 2012)

Well I have to water today. I bought some Grandma's Molasses. Only $2.78 instead of the $5.19 price with $5.49 shipping cost amazon charges. Gonna mix it with the fish fert today. Some guy here, https://www.rollitup.org/organics/540617-using-organic-fertilizer-synthetic.html#post7640992, recommended I buy "Flower-Tone" by Espoma for my organic bloom nutes. Home Depot has it for 7 bucks so I may get that either tomorrow or the day after. Next watering after this one is plain water so I'm not in a rush or anything.

Also said that I may of done damage to the soil by using synthetic. I read a little bit that said that too. Hopefully since I've only applied the 20-20-20 once at 1/4 strength and the 1-3-2 twice at 1/2 strength I haven't done too much damage.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 29, 2012)

Just watered. Mixed the molasses and the fish blend together. Tried just a dab of it...That shit is sweeter than sugar lol. Microwaved the molasses for a little bit and had the water sitting on the stove for a minute or 2 just to make sure it mixed well. I actually did 2 tablespoons by accident. Wasn't paying attention lol, it's too early . Mixed the molasses into half a gallon of water and added it to another half gallon of water with fish ferts, so 1 gallon total. I added room temp water to cool the hot water down and let it sit for a few minutes afterwards. It was room temp when I touched it.

I think I have a N def. I'm seeing red stems everywhere actually...Odd. I also found a yellow leaf about midway up the Northern lights. Was too hard to get a pic of, but it pretty much looks like the one I took of pic of albeit smaller. The pics of the red stem are actually the Blue Mammoth. Both have red stems though.

Oh and I also took a comparison pic of the height. First pic is from 3-4 days ago, second on is today. I'm hoping that the blossom booster actually slows down vertical growth. At the same time I'm worried that the blossom booster could be cause my deficiency by having too much P, K.

Obligatory bud pics included


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## Lady.J (Jun 29, 2012)

I am having the red stem issue too. Was under the impression that you give less nutes during flowering but seems like they're not getting enough! Maybe that's why UB recommends the ratios that he does....


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 29, 2012)

Yea, I can imagine at 30-10-10 would most def be enough nitrogen lol. Does he use organics or just synthetics? Gonna try adding molasses every watering and I'll add half an oz of the fish fert next watering(supposed to be plain water). I only did the 1oz today. Was concentrating on the molasses lol. Was surprised that almost all my stems were red. Didn't seem that way when I watered before.

Oh god, I was thinking about using urine if the fish ferts didn't cut it and I came to the realization that someone could of been doing the same thing with the bud I've bought...Gross


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## Lady.J (Jun 29, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Yea, I can imagine at 30-10-10 would most def be enough nitrogen lol. Does he use organics or just synthetics? Gonna try adding molasses every watering and I'll add half an oz of the fish fert next watering(supposed to be plain water). I only did the 1oz today. Was concentrating on the molasses lol. Was surprised that almost all my stems were red. Didn't seem that way when I watered before.
> 
> Oh god, I was thinking about using urine if the fish ferts didn't cut it and I came to the realization that someone could of been doing the same thing with the bud I've bought...Gross


I think UB has used both synthetics and organics. Do you know if he still posts regularly? Most of my stem are red too...hard to feel like you're not doing something wrong lol. My plants were next to perfect in veg...flowering is on a whole different level. 

I highly doubt that anyone used urine for ferts on your bud...but even then, the roots just take the nutrients from it...it's not like they store the pee 

I feel you though, I have things that gross me out too no matter how rationally someone explains it....like bugs!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 29, 2012)

Yea he still post regularly, but it's not in the grow sections. More like the MMJ state forums and politics. Maybe that was UncleBuck though, not sure. You can always check out his profile and see the last thing he posted.

Yea, I feel like it's a race to finish the grow before all the leaves yellow and die lol.


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## Lady.J (Jun 29, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Yea he still post regularly, but it's not in the grow sections. More like the MMJ state forums and politics. Maybe that was UncleBuck though, not sure. You can always check out his profile and see the last thing he posted.
> 
> Yea, I feel like it's a race to finish the grow before all the leaves yellow and die lol.


lol yea I'm pretty sure that's uncle buck. 

And yup...you're exactly right! I didn't understand that before. Talk about pressure lol. Going to give my girls some ferts today too, getting more yellow leaves


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## Flaming Pie (Jun 29, 2012)

Hey cloudz, 

Is that tin foil in your pics? I read tin foil can caus hot spots and burn the plant. Just thought I'd mention that. Hope you figure out the problem. =)


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 29, 2012)

Nope, it's a mylar emergency blanket.


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## Flaming Pie (Jun 29, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Nope, it's a mylar emergency blanket.


one of the cheap ones from walmart? (me thinks ill get one)


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 29, 2012)

Yep  Although I think they had other types of e-blankets that were some sort of foil so I would make sure you grab the right one. Yea wal-mart.com has a different brand that what I saw in the store. Those are aluminum(not foil) covered plastic. Mine had the pic of a woman on it, not sure about the brand name.


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## Flaming Pie (Jun 29, 2012)

I'm still not sure where I am going to grow. I first thought the basement, but I don't want to have to buy a heater. Then I thought closet upstairs.. but then I won't have as much space.. So now I'm gonna go get a thermometer and find out how cold it is down there.

I figure if it is 71+ I should be ok with an enclosed area.. 

>.>


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 29, 2012)

It depends on what lighting you're going to use and how many. 71F ambient temp should be fine for CFLs, but if you're using HPS you'll want to look into ventilation. Assume the temp will increase 5-10 degrees with the lights. With the lights off my temp decreases about 7-10. 71F with the lights is way too cold though. Coldest you want usually is 75F. During vegging you may be able to get away with it, but not during flowering. Why not just do what I'm doing and Lady J did and just get 2 sterlite bins?


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## Flaming Pie (Jun 29, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> It depends on what lighting you're going to use and how many. 71F ambient temp should be fine for CFLs, but if you're using HPS you'll want to look into ventilation. Assume the temp will increase 5-10 degrees with the lights. With the lights off my temp decreases about 7-10. 71F with the lights is way too cold though. Coldest you want usually is 75F. During vegging you may be able to get away with it, but not during flowering. Why not just do what I'm doing and Lady J did and just get 2 sterlite bins?


I guess I just wanted to build a box. lol 

Lady J said her temp went up like 15 degrees with all her cfl. she has 280w in her closet. I don't want 90 degrees lol. That is bad for young plants (hers are older). Dont want to cook my young seedlings.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 29, 2012)

I think she's talking about her closet grow. She wasn't using 280w when she had the bin. Just 252. Also she was only using 1 fan I think? I'm using 200w and my temp is only 5 degrees higher than the ambient. I guess building a proper grow box would be better in the long run, but I wouldn't go overboard on your first grow.


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## Lady.J (Jun 29, 2012)

Flaming Pie said:


> I guess I just wanted to build a box. lol
> 
> Lady J said her temp went up like 15 degrees with all her cfl. she has 280w in her closet. I don't want 90 degrees lol. That is bad for young plants (hers are older). Dont want to cook my young seedlings.


Cloudz is right...had the temp issues in the closet, not the grow box. 

Also, the temps only went up when I added supplemental lighting (which you wouldn't need with young plants). The 200w was decent temp for the plants (82 degrees), but I pushed it because I wanted the spectrum to favor 2700k versus half and half with the dual spectrum CFL. Am keeping a lower corner of my duct tape door open and it's been helping the temps.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 29, 2012)

Alright Lady, here's the pics. I think the pic of of the leaf with the burn has been that way for awhile now. It wasn't something within the past week at least.


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## Lady.J (Jun 29, 2012)

I think you could have a little N and / or possibly magnesium. Upping your nutes should help if it's N...and then if things don't change / get worse, give them a dosing of epsom for the mag. They still look good though. My skunk is light in color almost everywhere, is pissin' me off!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 29, 2012)

This is across both plants btw. I think I will go and get a ph meter tomorrow or so. Curious what the ph is and when I move I need to test the water anyway.


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## Lady.J (Jun 29, 2012)

I don't blame you...have heard some people have really high Ph'd tap water...but I think the tap water is pretty decent in the South East? I've decided to start using distilled water and will probably invest in a filter for my faucet....only because of chlorine not being microherd friendly


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 29, 2012)

Hey, cool ^_^ I checked the mail today and Neptune's Harvest sent me another sample of the fish blend


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## Lady.J (Jun 29, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Hey, cool ^_^ I checked the mail today and Neptune's Harvest sent me another sample of the fish blend


You got two? lol lucky


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## Flaming Pie (Jun 29, 2012)

I just checked the temp of my basement. 68.5 F 

AHHHHHHh

I dont want to buy a heater!


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jun 29, 2012)

68.5 isn't too bad. No reason for a heater. Does it get cooler than that?
I'd gladly swap your 68.5* for my 90*+ in some cases!
Plus you will be adding the heat from the bulb(s)


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## Flaming Pie (Jun 29, 2012)

KidneyStoner420 said:


> 68.5 isn't too bad. No reason for a heater. Does it get cooler than that?
> I'd gladly swap your 68.5* for my 90*+ in some cases!
> Plus you will be adding the heat from the bulb(s)


Well it is night time and the temp outside is only like 90 something.. high humidity. So now would be the coldest temperature.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jun 29, 2012)

That doesn't seem to cold to me. 
If I were you, I'd buy a blue or purple strain. Then run your lights during the day. The cooler temps at night (with the wilghts off) should get you all the colors.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 29, 2012)

I'll take trade your 68F for my 104F weather any day  Lower temps means you can add more lights ^_^ If you don't buy a heater I would actually run your lights during the night and keep the lights off during the day to balance it out a little bit. 70F is a bit cold for cannabis. The lights will probably raise your temps to decent levels though.


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## Flaming Pie (Jun 29, 2012)

I just read that tomatoes grow best between 65-85 degrees F. So 68.5 without lights should be perfect. HURRAY!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 30, 2012)

Well temps outside hit 105 outside today. Just about killed all the plants outside. Temps inside the bin hit 95F! Had the a/c on all day and still having trouble keeping the ambient temp in my room below 86F  They showed signs of heat stress so I watered them today(was going to water tomorrow) with 1/2 a tsp of 1-3-2 which is twice as much as I usually do, to try and combat which is hopefully a deficiency and not a ph issue, along with a tsp of molasses. Turned the lights off at 4:45PM. They usually go off at 7pm, but I can't have the temps be 95F. I might just switch the lights to be on during the night and off during the day, but I'm not quite sure if I should just go ahead and switch it or slowly switch it. No idea how I should slowly switch the light on hours though. It's supposed to be 98F tuesday with a 20% chance of rain for the next 3 days. Highs for sunday and monday are 103 and 104F...FML


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jun 30, 2012)

For what its worth my closet hit 108 a couple weeks ago. But my plants kept on truckin. Lol only reason it was that high was because the door was shut all day. Usually I keep it open for fresh air. 86 is about as high as I'd wanna see in there. Although it used to hit 90+ before my homemade cooltube


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## Cloudz2600 (Jun 30, 2012)

Yea normally they're only 5-7 degrees higher than the ambient temp, which they are. But the ambient temp is 86F lol, I'm roasting.


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## Flaming Pie (Jun 30, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Well temps outside hit 105 outside today. Just about killed all the plants outside. Temps inside the bin hit 95F! Had the a/c on all day and still having trouble keeping the ambient temp in my room below 86F  They showed signs of heat stress so I watered them today(was going to water tomorrow) with 1/2 a tsp of 1-3-2 which is twice as much as I usually do, to try and combat which is hopefully a deficiency and not a ph issue, along with a tsp of molasses. Turned the lights off at 4:45PM. They usually go off at 7pm, but I can't have the temps be 95F. I might just switch the lights to be on during the night and off during the day, but I'm not quite sure if I should just go ahead and switch it or slowly switch it. No idea how I should slowly switch the light on hours though. It's supposed to be 98F tuesday with a 20% chance of rain for the next 3 days. Highs for sunday and monday are 103 and 104F...FML


Its alway 74 in my house. and this morning it was still 68.5 in the basement. 

My tomato plant leaves are curling from the 100 degree weather...


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 3, 2012)

Not much has been happening. Temps hit 107 yesterday, but it rained in the afternoon/this morning. So far it's only 91F right now. High is supposed to be 95 

Watered the girls yesterday. I was looking at the micro nutes listed on Jack's Classic and it's only .005 Magnesium! I checked the Veg+Bloom stuff and it's 6% and 18% calcium. So I used that along with the molasses I use every watering. Depending on if that solves my problems or not I may just use that occasionally, if it doesn't I'll look into top dressing the pot with some lime. Next grow since I'll be going organic, I'll be adding lime to my mix. 

Taking pics really didn't occur to me and it was pretty damn hot so I didn't want to bother really. Buds on the Blue Mammoth as starting to thicken out. The Northern Lights has slowed down it's stretching a good bit. I've got maybe 4-5 tops that are super long, but everything else is pretty slow.

Took off about 5-7 leaves total from both plants. Didn't prune or anything, I just very lightly pulled on the leaf and they came off without any resistance. I've got one leaf that is actually wrinkled and black/brown on the Northern Lights. Looks exactly how it would if it was super dry, expect it's still firmly attached and black/brown. Nothing of the sort of the Blue Mammoth.

In unrelated news I found a way to play Final Fantasy 11 for free, on a private server, with my ps3 controller 

Oh I'm trying to see how much fertilizer I can use until I get a nute burn. I think I have a deficiency of some sort and it will be interesting to see how far I can push the nutes. More=better until you start burning it right?


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 3, 2012)

i still want pics!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 3, 2012)

I'll take pics in a day or 2. Whenever the girls need to be watered. Trying my best not to mess with them at all.


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 3, 2012)

...I would not be able to help myself from sitting at the door of my closet.. just staring.


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## Lady.J (Jul 3, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Not much has been happening. Temps hit 107 yesterday, but it rained in the afternoon/this morning. So far it's only 91F right now. High is supposed to be 95
> 
> Watered the girls yesterday. I was looking at the micro nutes listed on Jack's Classic and it's only .005 Magnesium! I checked the Veg+Bloom stuff and it's 6% and 18% calcium. So I used that along with the molasses I use every watering. Depending on if that solves my problems or not I may just use that occasionally, if it doesn't I'll look into top dressing the pot with some lime. Next grow since I'll be going organic, I'll be adding lime to my mix.
> 
> ...


I think it would be safe to try upping dosage little by little each watering to try if you want.


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 4, 2012)

Is final fantasy 11 the online one?


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## Lady.J (Jul 5, 2012)

Hey, where you been at?? Have any pics of the girls?? My skunk has lost pretty much all fan leaves except one. Going to have to have a different plan for flowering next time around.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 5, 2012)

I've been playing Final Fantasy 11(the online one). Grinding like crazy lol. I'll make an update in a few minutes.


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## Lady.J (Jul 5, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I've been playing Final Fantasy 11(the online one). Grinding like crazy lol. I'll make an update in a few minutes.


lol Nice...I was a big FF fan for a while. Pisses me off that you lose xp when you die though . And I know how the grind can be! Will be waiting on the pics


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 5, 2012)

Picture time ^_^.

Well I've been watering with the veg+bloom rather than the jack's because I noticed Jack's has almost no micronutes, while the veg+bloom has 18% calcium and 6% magnesium over the lack of calcium in the jack's and the .05% of mg. Have been adding 1 tablespoon of molasses per watering and have been watering about every 2 days. Next watering(tomorrow probably) I'll use the Fish blend at 1.5 oz instead of the 1 that's recommended. 

Added some more soil to the top of the pot because I realized when I water a little bit of soil drained out and the roots had started to show. Pulled off about 2-3 leaves at the bottom per plant. Temps haven't gone above 86 and it's set to rain the rest of the week so we're going to have decently cool temps.

As you can see the girls are starting to get a little bit frosty. I've got about 6 weeks before the semester starts and 5 1/2 till I move in so it's a race. Worst case I could probably keep it at my roommates place for a few more days, but I don't want to leave it where I can't attend to it.

Oh right, the first pic is what happened a few days ago. Apparently a CFL lightly touched the top bud for a second or two. Not sure if it roasted it or not. Should I let it be or remove it?


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jul 5, 2012)

Looks great cloudz


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## Lady.J (Jul 5, 2012)

They are looking so gooooood!!! 

I would leave the burned bud...I did the same thing, left it, and it ended up filling out to the point of where I can't find the burn area anymore. It'll be a insignificant amount of burned bud when they swell up and get big.

I almost thought you completely destroyed the plants with under or over ferting since you weren't posting any updates, and was afraid to show us 

Glad that's not the case! They really look fantastic.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 5, 2012)

Haha nope, I haven't seen any adverse effects. Not even any tip burns. I really was grinding in ff11 lol.


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## millerino (Jul 6, 2012)

Looking good dude!! Mine are still a few days behind yours. It's a shame these girls are taking so long - it's week 11 and we should be looking at harvesting. It's good to see someone else growing and hitting the same timescale as me, though. Makes it not quite so worrying


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 6, 2012)

Which one are you growing? The Blue Mammoth or the Northern Lights?


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 6, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Haha nope, I haven't seen any adverse effects. Not even any tip burns. I really was grinding in ff11 lol.


I thought in FF11 you have to have a party to level past 20. Nice buds btw.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 7, 2012)

Soloing is possible, but why play a MMO if you want to solo? I joined a linkshell(guild, clan, etc) and we've been doing fine.


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## millerino (Jul 7, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Which one are you growing? The Blue Mammoth or the Northern Lights?


Northern Lights x Big Bud! Can't wait.....she looks awesome and if I rub the stem the smell on my fingers is pure citrus. Gonna be tasty. Just wish she'd hurry along now


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 7, 2012)

millerino said:


> Northern Lights x Big Bud! Can't wait.....she looks awesome and if I rub the stem the smell on my fingers is pure citrus. Gonna be tasty. Just wish she'd hurry along now


which breeder did you go with?

And Cloud I thought you said something about playing 11 on a private server. I thought that meant solo. lol Awesome that you can do that.


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## millerino (Jul 7, 2012)

Flaming Pie said:


> which breeder did you go with?


World of Seeds


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 7, 2012)

Flaming Pie said:


> which breeder did you go with?
> 
> And Cloud I thought you said something about playing 11 on a private server. I thought that meant solo. lol Awesome that you can do that.


It's a private server in that Square Enix or Playonline don't own it. A private user does. He runs it out of his home. Basically it's a test server


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 7, 2012)

Watered yesterday with 1.5oz of the fish blend. Suggested amount is 1oz. Pulled about 4-5 leaves off at the bottom per plant...She's still pretty bushy though and I even have the bottom most branch that reaches all the way to the top! Tomorrow I'm going to water with plain water just to give her a breather even if she may not need it. So far they haven't showed *any* signs of burning. They're also getting pretty frosty and the uppermost nodes have started to swell a little bit. Stretching as far as the actual stems go has pretty much stopped. I have about 1 more inch to raise the lights. Which is plenty of room for the Blue Mammoth, but the Northern Lights is just about touching the lights now.

Five weeks till I have to move. Of course I'll take pics tomorrow, although I'm not sure how well the closeups will show the trichs.

I'm not gonna be on RIU that often anymore because of FFXI. Of course I'll still check the threads I already subbed to. So if you make anymore(Lady J) and want me to follow or just post in it link it here.


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## Lady.J (Jul 8, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Watered yesterday with 1.5oz of the fish blend. Suggested amount is 1oz. Pulled about 4-5 leaves off at the bottom per plant...She's still pretty bushy though and I even have the bottom most branch that reaches all the way to the top! Tomorrow I'm going to water with plain water just to give her a breather even if she may not need it. So far they haven't showed *any* signs of burning. They're also getting pretty frosty and the uppermost nodes have started to swell a little bit. Stretching as far as the actual stems go has pretty much stopped. I have about 1 more inch to raise the lights. Which is plenty of room for the Blue Mammoth, but the Northern Lights is just about touching the lights now.
> 
> Five weeks till I have to move. Of course I'll take pics tomorrow, although I'm not sure how well the closeups will show the trichs.
> 
> I'm not gonna be on RIU that often anymore because of FFXI. Of course I'll still check the threads I already subbed to. So if you make anymore(Lady J) and want me to follow or just post in it link it here.




Won't be making anymore...is FFXI that fun??


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 8, 2012)

Lady.J said:


> Won't be making anymore...is FFXI that fun??


you can farm straight crystals in FF. no plant matter. WIN


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 8, 2012)

Very much so, gotta be my favorite MMO. I'm still gonna update my thread every time something significant happens and when I water. I won't be playing FFXI when the semester starts though so my second grow will be back to the usual standards. So really just a month or so.

No need to farm. Everyone starts out with 4mil and all items(normally sell-able) are available in the AH for 100 Gil.


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 8, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Very much so, gotta be my favorite MMO. I'm still gonna update my thread every time something significant happens and when I water. I won't be playing FFXI when the semester starts though so my second grow will be back to the usual standards. So really just a month or so.
> 
> No need to farm. Everyone starts out with 4mil and all items(normally sell-able) are available in the AH for 100 Gil.


Is that because it is a private server?


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 8, 2012)

Yep, xp is boosted and running speed is increased as well. With a few other benefits. Most of us have played retail so farming for that type of stuff isn't needed. It's a test server.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 8, 2012)

Good news and bad news! Good news is the Blue Mammoth is looking better than ever and has really started to thicken out and frost. Bad news is the Northern Lights has something very wrong with it. Yellowing leaves *everywhere*(middle and bottom) and red stems. For an older plant the NL looks a bit younger in bud size and frostiness. I was going to water with plain water today, but after seeing it I decided to water with 1.5 tsp(the max recommended) of the Veg+Bloom(16-10-30, lots of micro nutes) and 1 1/2 ounces of fish blend. If this doesn't clear up in the next week or so I'm going to have to buy a ph tester and some lime. Can't believe it would be the ph because the Blue Mammoth, albeit still yellowing, is no where near as bad the NL.

I for one am very happy with how the Blue Mammoth is turning out. Buds are frosty throughout the plant, still very bushy, minor yellowing/dying at the very bottom, none in the middle or top. Northern Lights has been giving me trouble from the start though. Don't want to try out the AKR now.


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 8, 2012)

i just saw some photos of leaves like that. looking like magnesium deficiency to me. I hope you figure it out and fix it!


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## BauschLaumb (Jul 9, 2012)

I want to start off by saying I love FF11 and want to go back and play it so bad and secondly I am a beginning grower who had some leaves that looked like that and it was due to a mag def. I may not be correct on this but you may have a mag def due to a nitrogen abundance. Too much nitrogen can cause a mag and calcium lockout I believe. Your leaves are a rather dark green and according to this chart its the key indicator of nitrogen abundanceView attachment 2248607 


If I am recycling information that has already been covered I apologize but if not ,nitrogen abundance may be something you want to look into for future grows and the one you got going now. Game on.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 9, 2012)

So should I turn down the nitrogen, add some lime(was that for cal or mag?) or both? I have a 1-3-2, but it lacks almost completely cal/mag. I kind of figured I had a lot of N. The only ting that made me want to add more was the red stems. It's pretty obvious at this stage that it's mag you're right.


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## Lady.J (Jul 10, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> So should I turn down the nitrogen, add some lime(was that for cal or mag?) or both? I have a 1-3-2, but it lacks almost completely cal/mag. I kind of figured I had a lot of N. The only ting that made me want to add more was the red stems. It's pretty obvious at this stage that it's mag you're right.


Hey Cloudz...do you still have any epsom? Epsom will treat it up...I think I saw Do3sha tell someone to get like 5 gallons of water mixed with 5 tablespoons of epsom, and then flush the plant with the mix. Flushing should remove that extra N from the soil and give it the mag it needs. Epsom can be used in a foliar feed too, so spraying it on the leaves will get mag to them faster than letting the roots do the work. Also, I just recently read that molasses has mag in it too, along with other micro nutes so be sure it keep using it. Keep in mind that red stems mean that you have a deficiency...it isn't specific to only one!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 10, 2012)

Ah right epsom salt. Yea, I have some but only like a tsp apparently. I need to buy some more. I don't think I'll try any foliar feeding while there are buds. Too easy to mess them up by spraying too much.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 11, 2012)

Well I watered today with 2 tablespoons of epsom salt and 2 tablespoons of molasses in my 1 gallon jug. I wanted to do the flushing method, but I just didn't have the time today and they still needed to be watered. I'll be discontinuing the use of the fish blend for a week or so and water solely with the 1-3-2(with molasses) every other watering and the epsom salt(with molasses) every other watering(replacing my plain water watering). Hopefully this will fix the issues I have with the mag def on the Northern Lights and the minor mag def with the Blue Mammoth. I only pulled 3 leaves total from both plants, which is an improvement from the 7-10 I was pulling. The pictures yellow leave is from the NL and is the most yellow of the yellow leaves, although I only really have 2 yellow leaves that didn't need to be pulled. The Blue Mammoth isn't really getting any yellowing like the NL.

Bud pics of course. The Blue Mammoth is getting frostier by the day and is beginning to swell up as well. Vertical growth has stopped completely compared to the last 2 weeks. Same deal with the NL although it's much less frosty and it stretched a shit ton more than the BM. I rubbed my fingers on one of the smaller bud leaves and noticed two very distinct smells from the BM and NL. The NL smells like typical high grade weed, while the Blue Mammoth smells almost sweet, while still having that "you know it's weed" smell. Hard to explain and it's still early in the bud development.

At this point I'm looking more forward to the BM than the NL, simply because of how well it took to the abuse, the varying amount of nutes I used and the compact size. It almost never burned or had a deficiency unlike the NL which was very fickle with everything I did. Makes me want to try the Pineapple Chunk or Critical Kush I got more than the Afgan Kush Ryder. That's Barney's over World of Seeds in case you didn't know.

Next watering/update I think I'll add the tbsp of espom salt in addition to the 1/2 tsp of 1-3-2+molasses and then I'll start separating them. I just want to make sure I give it enough. That's all for now, hopefully I'll have a big(positive) change to show you guys in the next few days.


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## Lady.J (Jul 11, 2012)

Be careful with adding too much Mag...it locks out other nutes if you use too much and even worse, can burn your roots! It's recommended to use only 1 tablespoon of epsom per gallon of water from what I've heard...also I think that you want to be sure not to use it every watering! And I'm sure you know this, but without the flushing, the inclusion of mag is virtually useless to the plant. The additional N will continue to lock it out until the N abundance is removed. 

I have to say that your plants are looking really good though. Are the beans you're thinking bout dropping autos too?


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 11, 2012)

Eh...Afgan Kush Ryder is an auto, but I think I'm going to try the Barney's photoperiods. Going to go 12/12 and Critical Kush/Pineapple Chunk are 25% thc. Good point about the N. I'll do the flushing tomorrow since I'll have the time and it'll be time to water anyway.


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## Lady.J (Jul 11, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Eh...Afgan Kush Ryder is an auto, but I think I'm going to try the Barney's photoperiods. Going to go 12/12 and Critical Kush/Pineapple Chunk are 25% thc. Good point about the N. I'll do the flushing tomorrow since I'll have the time and it'll be time to water anyway.


hell yea nice...would love to see you do some 12/12...25% sounds like it'll knock you on your ass!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 13, 2012)

Well I just realized that I flushed about 36 hours ago so I may have over watered the plants today. Didn't really bother checking the weight because I figured it would still be pretty moist from the flushing, oh well. I watered with 1 1/2 tsp of epsom salt, 1/2 a tsp of 1-3-2 and 1 tbsp of molasses. I took off the ties to the plants when I flushed because they were getting in the way of my watering. I only had 2 spaces in between the wires to water so it was a real pain. Surprisingly the tops actually stood back up rather quickly. Because of that...a top on the Northern Lights got burned pretty bad. I cut it off as carefully as possible as to not cut any of the "good" bud off.

I haven't had that much experience with a lot of different bud, I usually find a good solid strain that the dealer sells and stick with that. That being said the NL kinda smells like a kush. Kind of funky, but still a bit sweet. The Blue Mammoth must take after its Blueberry parent. It smells sooo good. Very sweet, pungent in that it's obvious it's weed, but very pleasant. Can't wait to smoke itBoth are pretty frost right now. The NL seems a bit larger, but is a tad bit less frosty than the BM.

Now for the bad news. Between the past 2-3 days I've probably pulled off about 15 leaves total. Most were very small and on the very bottom. A few were the larger fan leaves, but that was only off the NL. The Blue Mammoth has been very kind and only drops very very small leaves. I've not had one leaf in the middle or top yellow/die. When I was flushing I noticed *several* small white bugs walking across the rim of the pot on the NL. I'm sure I don't have super vision so I doubt they were the microorganisms. More likely than not they were gnats. Which is understandable. It's been raining the past week or so and I've had my window open almost all day(with the a/c off) so cool/fresh air comes in and weed smell goes out. The latter doesn't really happen lol. I covered the top inch or so with new, dry soil so hopefully that will help a bit. I didn't do that again when I just watered, but I'm going to see if I can wait 3 days for the soil to dry out just a bit more than normal.

Plan on smoking the top I cut off. I doubt it's anywhere near finished, but it should give me a general taste of what's to come. Haven't smoked since May 7th...FML

Oh sorry about all the pictures, I kinda got into it and forgot how many I took. If you notice the numbers actually skip a bit. I took a lot more than I posted 

Oh right, next watering will consist of 1/2 a tsp of 1-3-2 and 1/2 a tsp of epsom salt.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 13, 2012)

Oh yea anyone have any good links on microscopes? It's really my first grow so I don't plan on shelling out big bucks for a electron microscope lol. I figure 30x should be enough right?


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 16, 2012)

Well, I guess I figured out what the plants threshold for fertilizer was or maybe it was all the salt from the epsom like you said Lady. Regardless the plants tips are burned like they were the first time when I added the 20/20/20. Burned on both plants I should add. I checked yesterday for leaves that needed to be pulled off and I only pulled off 3 total so the problem seems to be going away. Maybe two waterings with epsom salt was too much. I guess I'll go ahead and water with just 1/2 a tsp of the 1-3-2 and 1 tsp of molasses instead of the tablespoon every time.

Going to water today so of course I'll take pictures. I have about 3 1/2 weeks till the semester starts. Hairs haven't started receding which is probably the biggest sign that they're getting close to being done so I'm getting anxious about the time. Going to order a microscope next week. Quick browsing on Amazon showed a few for under $10 at 30x power.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 16, 2012)

Wow 900 pictures taken on my DSLR. Probably 3/4 of those are from this grow lol. Watered today with 1/2 a tsp of the Jack's Blossom Booster(1-3-2) and NO epsom salt and NO molasses(I didn't feel like measuring it, microwaving it and *then* mixing it into the water). 

Upon taking the plants out of the bin I noticed the Northern Lights was much lighter than the Blue Mammoth. Whether that's due to the mag def or due to the lack of Nitrogen I've haven't been giving it over the past 3 watering(about a week give or take a day) I don't know. I'll do process of elimination and next watering I'll add 1oz on fish blend and add 1 tsp of molasses. If it doesn't begin to clear up in the 2-3 days before the next one I'll add 1/2 a tsp of fish blend, 1 tsp of molasses and and 1 tsp of epsom salt. I realize I may not see any signs in 2 days, which is why I'm not going to completely stop using the fish blend, but instead reduce the amount and increase the amount of mag.

I also noticed on the stem that got burnt badly that there were a few brown spots on the top leaves. They weren't on the any other leaves on the other stems and they were only on the top 3-4 leaves on that particular stem. Like I said before, most of the fan leaves had slight burning at the tips on *both* of the plants. The amount of yellowing leaves on the Blue Mammoth have pretty much dropped to none and I only see 1-2 leaves at the bottom that are noticeably lighter than the rest of the leaves on the Northern Lights.

On the bright side, most of the buds have about 50% red/orange hairs on both the plants and seem to be thickening out when I look at the pictures for comparison. Smells are pretty noticeable. I've been using those "trees" that you put in your car to make it smell good. Figured out that each tree will create a noticeable smell if placed in front of the fans for about 2 days. Around the third the weed smell starts to become noticeable again. At the 4th day the tree smell is completely gone. A 6 pack cost about $4.50. So $5 about every 2 weeks will handle the smell issue. I've been using Vanilla and Pine. Vanilla smells better, but Pine is much, much stronger smelling.

I've noticed a few gnats, but temps have been so good during the day that I find it hard not to keep the window open. Ambient temps for the past week have sat around 79-84. I put the thermometer about 6 inches from the exhaust fan though, so the temp may be a bit cooler.

That's all for now


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jul 16, 2012)

good cheap scope. I have one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-30x-60x-LED-Lighted-Magnifier-Jewelers-Loupe-Loop-Glass-Illuminated-Pocket-/230820700020?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bdfc5f74
I use the 60x most of the time.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 17, 2012)

$5 with free shipping is an awesome price. Ordered one. Just wondering, but how many weeks do you think I have left? I ofc will check the triches when I get the microscope, but I'm just curious.


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## Lady.J (Jul 17, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> $5 with free shipping is an awesome price. Ordered one. Just wondering, but how many weeks do you think I have left? I ofc will check the triches when I get the microscope, but I'm just curious.


I think you have 3-4 weeks, personally. It also depends on what kind of high you want too...if you want a more energetic / head high, you can pull early. But if you want that couch lock stone, you'll have to let your girls marinate a lil longer.


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## MrPoopeedoo00 (Jul 17, 2012)

yo cloudz check me out @ day 71 [video=youtube;EDejmeSo6Po]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDejmeSo6Po[/video]


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 17, 2012)

Wow dude nice, what's your setup?


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## MrPoopeedoo00 (Jul 18, 2012)

1000w hps air cooled 6" inline fan in a 3 gal smartpot feeding age old organics and a lil cal/mag and a lil silica blast


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 18, 2012)

Watered today with 3 cap fulls(measuring cup was in the dishwasher) of the fish blend and 1 1/2 tsp of molasses. Both plants are pretty frosty at this point with the Blue Mammoth clearly in the lead. The Northern Lights has been having some problems. I've got brown spots on two of the fan leaves of the top that got burnt and directly next to it another fan leaf on another plant has some white stuff on the edge. Won't rub off. (After looking at the pics I took it seems I forgot to take a pic of it )

Ambient temps have been 81-84F while humidity has been 55-59%. I didn't feel like I would get reliable readings if I had the acu-rite in the bottom of the bin and when I tried to tape it too the wall of the bin level with lights it ended up falling. That and in order to get a reading with it attached to the wall would require me to take off the top completely. I've got a desk fan on medium speed blowing air into the usually passive intake and I've got an air cleaner(purifier) sucking that exhaust air in and blowing it upwards. Assuming the temps inside the box are hotter when the ambient temps hit 84F+ I turn off the 2 26w 2700k bulbs I have in the center. When I had the acu-rite in the bin I noticed that it raised the temp by 2 degrees.

Northern Lights still has lighter leaves than than the Blue Mammoth and today I pulled off about 6-7 leaves from the NL. Only about 2 small leaves from the Blue Mammoth(again at the bottom). Took some pics of what the leaves look like from beginning to yellow to the end(or just about). As glad as I am about the Blue Mammoth not giving me as much trouble as the NL is I wish it could of produced more tops.

When I watered I noticed the same little white things start to crawl on the surface again. Pretty sure it's gnat larvae, but at this point I really don't want to do any serious attempts to fix it.


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 18, 2012)

what brand of NL did you buy again?

I wonder why it keeps being finicky on you.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 18, 2012)

World of Seeds, Northern Lights x Big Bud auto.


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 18, 2012)

I read somewhere that at the end of flowering the plant starts stealing energy from the bottom leaves. that may be why they are dying. And the blue mammoth looks a bit too dark green to me.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 18, 2012)

Which would be totally normal except I'm losing leaves from the middle of the plant too and all the leaves(top, bottom and middle) are yellowing. That's why the Blue Mammoth losing a few leaves doesn't worry me. But I'm losing about 5-6 leaves every 2 days from the Northern Lights. Yea the BM is a bit too green, I've turned down the amount of N I'm giving it. Although I just realized I used the same water I used on the NL today. Today is the first time in a week I've used any Nitrogen heavy fertilizer. I've been using mag+plain water, or 1-3-2 fertilizer for the past week.

With the problems I've had with two of the NLxBB's and WoS' customer service(or lack of) I'll probably try another breeder from than them. Gonna try Barney's and then the La Diva I got from the 4/20 promo.


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 18, 2012)

sucks that it is bumming you out. hope the harvest brings you cheer!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 20, 2012)

Ugh just looking at the Blackstar LEDs. So hard to choose. I don't want too much light so that I bleach my plant(s), but I don't want to supplement with CFLs if I don't have to.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/180W-New-2012-Lighthouse-Hydro-BlackStar-LED-Grow-Light-3W-LEDs-/290622453178?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43aa72b5ba#ht_8728wt_1163
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2012-240w-Lighthouse-Hydro-BlackStar-LED-Grow-light-Flowering-3W-LEDs-/280817633570?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4162090922#ht_8517wt_1163

Basically same coverage size, $50 more for 80 more watts. I'm sure for a 1 plant grow a 180w would be fine though right? Just trying to make sure I don't exceed the space I have by growing 2 plants and end up having to either cut some tops(like I did for this grow) or ditch a plant entirely. Limited space as well so I can't go and buy a tent or anything.

One thing that confuses me about LEDs is that I don't see them post the lumens or the PAR. So it's kind of hard to see how much more I'm getting for the additional amount. I can see a lot more people bought the BS240, but I can't see why.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 20, 2012)

Did separate watering today. Which sucked because I had to use the same amount of molasses and fish fertilizer as I would for both plants, but only used it for one. Watered the Northern Lights with 3/4 tsp of epsom salt, 1 ounce of fish blend, and 2 tablespoons of molasses. Noticed that the plant is beginning to burn at the top leaves so for the next one to two watering I'm going to water with plain water. No molasses, no Epsom salt, no nothing. Such a fickle girl is she. Watered the Blue Mammoth with just plain water. Been watering with the same water as I've been using to combat the several deficiencies as the Northern Lights, but the Blue Mammoth hasn't had any real problems. Decided to give her a break. I'll continue with plain water for at least one more watering. Last watering with the 1-3-2 seems to burn her a little bit.

Buds are looking frosty, although the camera makes them look it even more so  . Northern Lights definitively has the yield going, but the looks/smell goes to the Blue Mammoth. It smells a little bit like coffee and weed to me. Northern Lights smells like grade A stuff too, just can't put my finger on it. Can't wait to harvest and dry/cry them. Supposedly the smells become more pronounced after. Judging by the pics I've taken over the past week it looks like vertical growth is just now coming to a complete halt. Any new growth has a much higher bud to leaf ratio so the only thing that's getting taller/fatter really are the buds, not the stems.

Temps have been 79-84. The acu-rite is about 1-2" away now from the exhaust so I figure it's a decently accurate reading. Don't see any signs of heat stress either. My 60x microscope shipped from Cali yesterday so hopefully in a little less than a week I might be able to take some microscopic pics of the trichomes. Then I'll know how far along I really am. I still have plenty of white hairs vs brown/red hairs that have or have not receded.

Little less than 3 weeks before I have to move and 3 days after that the semester starts. Depending on the trichs by that time I may just harvest em. Checked the temp/humidity in my closet and it stays at 81F with 55% humidity. That's probably where I'll dry.

EDIT: Like 8 pics in no specific order decided not to upload. Instead of looking at each picture and looking at which one I had and didn't have I said fuck it and decided not to upload em. I think you guys can make do with 20


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 22, 2012)

I really hate this Northern Lights...Looks like I have a full blown case of calcium deficiency along with either Potassium or magnesium. In the past 2 days about 6-7 leaves have gone completely yellow. Those brown spots that I posted on the top of one of leaves from the top that got burnt spread...to every other top and a little below it. Checked the 3 stickies on plant problems and they look almost exactly the same. Probably going to look at buying either some calmag or lime if I can't find the calmag. Blue Mammoth, as usual, is just fine and green.

Watered with 3/4 tsp of Veg+Blood, for it's 18% calcium, 1/4 tsp of Blossom Booster(1-3-2) for it's 30% Phosphorus and 20% Potassium and 3/4 tsp of epsom salt(magnesium). I watered the Blue Mammoth with 1/4 of a gallon of the leftover mix and added 3/4 gallon of water to dilute it. Kinda at a loss for words lol. This plant has been giving me trouble from day 1. Been fighting various deficiencies since like week 4. I'm happy that it has a *lot* more tops than the Blue Mammoth, but the amount of issues the girl has had kind of outweighs the benefits at this point.

Checked the triches with the microscope. Having trouble using the 60x because it's so damn small and for some reason the plant looks upside down through it. Used the 30x. From what I can see all the triches are clear on both plants. Probably means I'm at least 2-3 weeks away. Which is awesome because I have about 20 days before I have to move. So it looks like I may end up having to leave the plant here for a week or so.

Didn't bother taking pics. Just a _little_&#8203; bit annoyed on how this plant is going so I didn't want to put my frustration behind a $700 camera  I guess this is a good reason why you should grow multiple plants.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jul 22, 2012)

I have a NL blue auto freebie I've been waiting to pop, but perhaps I will wait and throw it in the bottom of the heap of seeds.
Sounds like a bunch of Cal/Mag issues.
I have some cal/mag though so maybe it won't be so bad.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 22, 2012)

Well this is a World of Seeds Northern Lights x Big Bud so you have a different breeder and strain. I've got one more NL, but I think I'm going to go through all the other seeds first.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 22, 2012)

Found this: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100342329/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=calcium+magnesium&storeId=10051, only $3.50 so it seems like a good deal.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jul 22, 2012)

Yeah, I use lime in every pot of soil.


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## Lady.J (Jul 22, 2012)

KidneyStoner420 said:


> Yeah, I use lime in every pot of soil.


Lime helps Ph and gives cal right?


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jul 22, 2012)

I use it for the PH, not sure about Calcium values.
I WAS using 1 TBS per gallon of soil, but after checking runoff (never used to bother) I've starting using 2 TBS/gallon of soil. 
My runoff was low 5s!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 22, 2012)

So can you mix it into the water or are you supposed to mix it in the soil before you plant the seed/clone? That or top dressing.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jul 22, 2012)

No, you mix it in. Like you would with perlite.
I have the granular lime. It's tiny little rocks. I'll crumble up most of it into dust between my fingers as I put it in the soil.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 22, 2012)

Well what are my options at this stage of the grow then? Can't mix it in the soil because that would require me to remove the soil from the root bound plant.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jul 22, 2012)

At this stage, all you can do is crush it up real fine and work it into the soil as best you can without disrupting. Then water accordingly.
Check the runoff the next few following waterings.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 22, 2012)

Work it in how? Like take the powder, poke holes in the soil(with my finger?) and deposit it in the holes? Roots begin 1" into the soil so not a lot of room to work with. Besides top dressing and then watering wouldn't any other method create pockets where the lime doesn't get to?


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jul 22, 2012)

Just dust it on the soil and then scratch it in as best you can.


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 22, 2012)

espoma garden lime says on the bag the nutrients it contains.. i believe last time i looked it had calcium and magnesium in it. check the bag label when you go to the store. =)


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 23, 2012)

Hmm I found this: http://www.aliexpress.com/product-gs/509638385-3w-660nm-led-New-2012-240w-Lighthouse-Hydro-BlackStar-LED-Grow-light-Flowering-3W-LED-s-wholesalers.html, $200 for the BS240. Even if it's too good to be true and comes damaged, if the warranty still covers it for a year I should be fine right? The website got decent reviews...on it's website. I save $80 if I go with them instead of amazon/ebay.

EDIT: And then I just noticed it wasn't black and said LG on the picture...


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 24, 2012)

Alright my mix for this watering is a little complicated lol. I had some issues getting pulverized lime except for a gigantic 40lb bag at lowes/home depot. I did find a nice small 6lb bag of Pennington's Fast Acting Lime for like $5. What I'm going to water with is: 1tsp of epsom salt(yellowing leaves), 1/4 tsp of 1-3-2(yellowing leaves), 1 tbsp of molasses and 2 tbsp of the lime pellets per gallon. I'm also going to top dress the soil with the lime pellets as well. I'll try and take pics today, but it's gotten pretty bad at the canopy.

The yellowing is from the outside in with the veins still green so I think that was a P def. I read that the calcium is lime is avaliable fairly quick, but the magnesium takes a little while so I'm going to supplement with the epsom salt just to cover all my bases. I'm going to top dress both plants, but I will only be using plain water for the Blue Mammoth. Trying to get that N abundance out. That plant doesn't have any yellowing leaves I can see. Oh the lime pellets are pretty small, more like granules. Pretty close in size to the epsom salt and the Jack's Classic I use.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jul 24, 2012)

Bro, the lime does not go in the water. You mix it in the soil.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 24, 2012)

Well I've seen a few threads about mixing it into the water and I figured it couldn't hurt any. Like I said I plan on adding it into the soil anyway.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jul 24, 2012)

Oh alrighty. Kep us updated on how it works out.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 24, 2012)

Watered today with the above mix. When I watered with the pellets they turned into this tan slush so hopefully that means they worked. I made sure the top dress was spread pretty evenly and that I rubbed it in a little bit.

All the leaves on the towel are from the Northern Lights. Also as you can see the cal def spread to most of the tops. I found some weird purple goo on a few leaves. It was light purple under the microscope and had the consistency of glue or tape. Hopefully it's not mold. My hudmidity has been pretty good. There was tape at some point where that leaves in question were, but I don't think it was purple. Just to play it safe I cut off any leaf that had it on it.

Blue Mammoth has been a slowly albeit small joy. I'd gladly take a smaller yield over the trouble that this one gave me. Hopefully this is just an issue because of a grow that went on longer than planned.

Temps are on the rise again. Was 95F today. Had to keep the a/c on 24/7(just about) to keep the ambient temps at 80F. Probably 4-6 degrees higher in the bin.

Oh triches are clear as far as I can tell. It's really hard to use the tiny sized 60x though. Oddly enough I do have a popcorn nug near the bottom that has almost all red hairs compared to the top nodes. Maybe in a week or so I'll try that for a taste. Protip: Burnt buds not properly dried/cured do not taste good.


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 24, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Watered today with the above mix. When I watered with the pellets they turned into this tan slush so hopefully that means they worked. I made sure the top dress was spread pretty evenly and that I rubbed it in a little bit.
> 
> All the leaves on the towel are from the Northern Lights. Also as you can see the cal def spread to most of the tops. I found some weird purple goo on a few leaves. It was light purple under the microscope and had the consistency of glue or tape. Hopefully it's not mold. My hudmidity has been pretty good. There was tape at some point where that leaves in question were, but I don't think it was purple. Just to play it safe I cut off any leaf that had it on it.
> 
> ...


Hate to break it to you buddy, but I don't think your NL had a calcium deficiency. Calcium deficiency is spots spread over the leaf. It doesn't fade to yellow.


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 24, 2012)

This is a reference pic I used to diagnose my plant. View attachment 2267839


This is what my leaves looked like.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 24, 2012)

Flaming Pie said:


> Hate to break it to you buddy, but I don't think your NL had a calcium deficiency. Calcium deficiency is spots spread over the leaf. It doesn't fade to yellow.


No, I know the yellowing isn't cal. A few of the pics I took had spots on the leaves. Pics 15, 17 and 18 were what looked like cal def. I think in an earlier post today I said the yellowing leaves was likely mag or P def.


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 24, 2012)

my babies are starting to recover.. takes for damn ever. 

but yeah that first pic looks like some cal defi


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 24, 2012)

That sucks, i feel ya man.. NL likes her calcium. I just want her to feel betta


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 24, 2012)

Yea, I'm going to try the Critical Kush on 12/12 from seed next grow. This girl is way too finicky for my taste. In 2 days the cal def spread from one fan leaf to all the others >.<


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 25, 2012)

Mine went a bit slower (thank god) but I started trying to remedy it after I first saw spots. I have it on two sets of leaves. and the dots have gotten considerable smaller on the third set of leaves. like pin prick small. no new spots over night either. so I think the calcium deficiency has been fixed.


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 25, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Yea, I'm going to try the Critical Kush on 12/12 from seed next grow. This girl is way too finicky for my taste. In 2 days the cal def spread from one fan leaf to all the others >.<


Which breeder? I think my next is gonna be dinafem sweet deep grapefruit. They got a dinafem deal at attitude and I'll get 6 blue widow free if I buy 5 SDG. Gonna wait for the august promotion to get those three freebies as well. Reserva Privada OG kush is one of the freebies for august.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 25, 2012)

Yea, hopefully with that blend I just watered her with she should be recovering from whatever is wrong with her. I think Barney's is the only breeder that makes Critical Kush. I've still got plenty of seeds from the 4/20 promo so I'm set for a bit.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 26, 2012)

Watered today with just a little bit under 1/4 tsp of 1-3-2 and 1 tsp of molasses. I didn't mean to water the Blue Mammoth with it, but I grabbed it first and I just totally forgot. Next watering I'll try and water them both with plain water, maybe some molasses, but I'm running out. Maybe 2-3 tsp left. 

Haven't pulled any leaves off the BM so I'm thinking she's being a good girl now. The N abundance is my fault . The black sheep, Northern Lights, looks better I guess. I only pulled off 2 leaves although I noticed one of the larger fan leaves near the top begin to yellow. Also it looks like that stupid top got burnt just a tad again. Going to widen the hole tomorrow so I can lift the lights an additional inch or two. I also switched out one of the 26w in the middle with the 45w above the NL. Distance will be a bit further away and it can be placed a bit closer to the actual bud. (EDIT: It works, but the weight of the 45w vs the 26w makes the 45w tilt and touch one of the fan leaves. May have to put it back the way it was.) The calcium def is still evident most on the burnt top, although the spreading has slowed down. Yellowing isn't as bad as it was either. I was losing 6-7 leaves every two days.

Checked the trichs. The Blue Mammoth has mostly cloudy with some clear. Didn't see any amber. The Northern Lights has mostly clear. I'm assuming what I saw was cloudy because the Northern Light's trichs are a lot more clear. Going to make one of those "how long till harvest threads", but I'm guessing based on the trichs 2 weeks min. 15 days till I have to move, 18 days till the semester starts. Really don't want to keep them at my current residence because I would have to drive back(its about 40-45 miles one way) every 2 days at least, just to water them. Like I've said before moving them isn't really an option either though.

Now for the most important part: Bud porn(makes me happy I can call it that lol) I'd like put the pictures in the text like how Lady has it. How do I do that?


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## Lady.J (Jul 26, 2012)

Wow...they look soooo tasty. It is almost time . If you're not looking for a couch lock, I bet you can harvest them right before you leave to school. I put text on my pics by editing them in MS paint first, then I upload them to photobucket and link to the forum. I do it that way too so that if I ever have to get rid of my pics fast, can just delete my photobucket account.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 26, 2012)

Well I am looking for couch lock, that's why I got Indicas. I've learned taking test while stoned isn't that great of an idea. I tend to think out loud lol.

Two other people told me they should be done around the same time you did. Pretty excited ^_^ They smell absolutely amazing. Together it's like this sweet, skunky, coffee smell. It actually smelled like syrup for a little bit when I came bck to the apartment. I wish I could bottle the smell lol.


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## Lady.J (Jul 26, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Well I am looking for couch lock, that's why I got Indicas. I've learned taking test while stoned isn't that great of an idea. I tend to think out loud lol.
> 
> Two other people told me they should be done around the same time you did. Pretty excited ^_^ They smell absolutely amazing. Together it's like this sweet, skunky, coffee smell. It actually smelled like syrup for a little bit when I came bck to the apartment. I wish I could bottle the smell lol.


Lol nice...is the smell pretty confined? Did you every get the plug-in air neutralizers?


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 27, 2012)

Nah, I didn't get them. I figured they won't really help in such an open area. Smell is absolutely not confined. It's hella strong in my room, but as soon as I open the apartment door I can smell it. Probably because I'm looking for it though. My room when I move is probably 3/4 to 1/2 this size so I'll get it then. Also I'll be venting into the window. Can't do that now because I have the lights off during daylight hours and the two fans allow a good bit of light in. Right now I'm alternating between incense, industrial air freshener, candles/oil and car fresheners, which actually aren't working that well anymore.


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 27, 2012)

Those are some nice sized colas. Looks like you got quite a few good colas going.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 27, 2012)

Yea some guy told me it looked like 3oz each, roughly. If I can get half that per plant I'll be more than satisfied. I've never even seen more than an oz at one time and it was mids anyway.


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## hotrodharley (Jul 27, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> So heres my setup:
> 5x5 walk in closet
> 1 - 42w 6500k CFL(2800 lumens)
> 4 - 26w 2700k CFL(1750 lumens)
> ...


I used FF OF and used Sensi Bloom A&B at 4 weeks. Just water until then. But it has been so cool in AK this summer so that probably has some effect. But my experience now with OF is no nutes before 3 weeks even for hungry strains. N+ OD with tip curl is too frequent if you do earlier. This with my Super Silver Haze and especially my White Widow. Starting Speed Devil, Auto White Widow, Speed Bud and Vertigo side-by-side for a cool weather test here starting 1 September.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 28, 2012)

Watered both plants with 1/4 of the 1-3-2, and 1 1/4 tsp of molasses. This is going to be the last time I water with any fertilizer. Checked the triches and a few were amber on both.  Figure I'll harvest in 7 days, so three more waterings. I saw this blackstrap molasses at the farmer's market next to 25% magnesium and iron vs. the 2% from Grandma's. Same price too.

Yesterday, due to Lady J's suggestion I took a sample of a lower bud on the Blue Mammoth. I quick dried it via the microwave method. 40% power at 5-7 second intervals. Buds still had a bit of moisture. Tried a bit; tasted like mids. The high was good though. Cut enough for about 4-5 bowls so I put the rest in a cupboard and let it dry some more. Tried some today, taste it a bit better and it burns more evenly. Consumed a half gallon of Publix's praline ice cream  . I ground the rest up in my grinder and put it in a tin I use to keep my weed so it cures a little. Didn't take any samples of the Northern Lights. It's been stressed it's entire life so I'll let it finish in peace.

Bud pics of course.  Both plants are starting to fill out and most of the hairs are starting to recede/turn red. Yellowing is still happening on the Northern Lights. Pulled off one large fan leaf and 2-3 smaller ones, but it's near the end anyway so it's ok. Blue Mammoth is fine as usual.


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## millerino (Jul 29, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Consumed a half gallon of Publix's praline ice cream


Haha, now that's a sign that she's doing her job! 

My NLxBB is covered with brown/dying leaves. I think the old girl is tired and just waiting for the end now. She's 13 weeks old, bless her heart! I've been following your grow and mine is a few days behind your's but I'll be harvesting at about the same time since I don't want so much of a couch-lock. Got a bud drying now to try in a day or so. I'll let you know if she's been worth all the trouble


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm assuming yours didn't auto if you're just a few days behind mine? That's the only reason mine is going to take about 100 days. You doing the proper cure/dry for your sample? Would like to know how the taste is lol.


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## Lady.J (Jul 29, 2012)

They are looking great . What size pots do you have them in?


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 29, 2012)

Is feeling bouncy, Like walking makes the floor seem as if it is bouncing beneath you, a couch lock type stone? It made thinking difficult and I felt like I was detached from myself.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 29, 2012)

Lady.J said:


> They are looking great . What size pots do you have them in?


Not even a gallon, 14 cups, 8" pots.



Flaming Pie said:


> Is feeling bouncy, Like walking makes the floor seem as if it is bouncing beneath you, a couch lock type stone? It made thinking difficult and I felt like I was detached from myself.


That sounds exactly what I'm looking for . I'm getting more of a head high from the Blue Mammoth, but maybe that's just cause it's not finished.


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## millerino (Jul 29, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I'm assuming yours didn't auto if you're just a few days behind mine? That's the only reason mine is going to take about 100 days. You doing the proper cure/dry for your sample? Would like to know how the taste is lol.


Mine auto-ed fine but the buds are taking SO long to develop (1 125w CFL). I'll dry the bud but it'll be smoked straightaway with no curing. I'll report back on the smoke. It'll be far from perfect but I should be able to get an idea of what she'll be like.


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## Lady.J (Jul 29, 2012)

Nice...I was wondering because they are so huge but the pots are small....good way to fit some nice size plants in smaller space. I was under the impression that the pots had to be bigger, but you have some big bitches nonetheless


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 29, 2012)

millerino said:


> Mine auto-ed fine but the buds are taking SO long to develop (1 125w CFL). I'll dry the bud but it'll be smoked straightaway with no curing. I'll report back on the smoke. It'll be far from perfect but I should be able to get an idea of what she'll be like.


I think I'll take two of the tops from the Northern Lights probably quick dry em. I'll properly dry and cure the rest of NL and Blue Mammoth. Trying to figure out where I can dry though. My closet sits at 81F with 55% RH. Would hanging them upside down in a cabinet under my entertainment center work? I could use the small 4" fan that it's the bin when the plants are done.



Lady.J said:


> Nice...I was wondering because they are so huge but the pots are small....good way to fit some nice size plants in smaller space. I was under the impression that the pots had to be bigger, but you have some big bitches nonetheless


And that was after I did a lot of LST. Yea I chose small pots on purpose because I wanted small plants lol. A 2 or 3 gallon grow would of been insane, I know the girls are already root bound like crazy.


Any idea if I could "purchase" a scale, weigh my stuff and return it? Any scale will do right? There's not some elitest scale that all the pro growers use right? Not sure about restocking fees which usually come with electronics, so I may have to get a manual one. I really don't want to keep one because I'll only use it every few months, decent e-scales are expensive and getting caught with a scale means you get charged with intent to distribute.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jul 29, 2012)

Cloudz I bought my 500g digi scale for $12 on eBay


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## Lady.J (Jul 29, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I think I'll take two of the tops from the Northern Lights probably quick dry em. I'll properly dry and cure the rest of NL and Blue Mammoth. Trying to figure out where I can dry though. My closet sits at 81F with 55% RH. Would hanging them upside down in a cabinet under my entertainment center work? I could use the small 4" fan that it's the bin when the plants are done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh man...got my girls in 2 gallons....but I'm excited about how crazy big they might get. Hopefully that isn't naively lol. 

I don't know about purchasing a scale and returning it....I know that you can get one at most tobacco shops for around 20-30 bucks and that's what most people use to weigh their product. I don't think tobacco stores usually do returns though. Your other option is a mail scale from like staples or office max...but those are usually pretty expensive.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 29, 2012)

Did a quick check and found these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIGITAL-GEM-0-1X1000-GRAM-Jewelry-POCKET-SCALE-/300704942358?pt=US_Pocket_Digital_Scales&hash=item4603694916#shId, http://www.ebay.com/itm/AWS-600g-Gold-Silver-Jewelry-Coin-Pocket-Digital-Scale-Grams-0-1g-/380413435792?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5892685f90#ht_1145wt_1396. Those ok?


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## Lady.J (Jul 29, 2012)

Those actually look pretty good....they're cheap as hell too and free shipping? Worth it to try imo.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jul 29, 2012)

The second one seems better.
This is the one I have. Goes to 500g and measures .01g
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-500g-0-01g-Mini-LCD-Digital-Scale-Jewelry-Pocket-Scale-/170882951999?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item27c96aeb3f


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 29, 2012)

Looks good, but it takes 9-30 days to arrive in the US. The 2nd one does look better, and it's closer to me than Cali.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Jul 29, 2012)

Do eeeet LOL
#2 it is!


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## doogey420 (Jul 29, 2012)

Whats the word. N.L. Blue Auto. @ 2weeks from showing pistols. She is now 38 days old from sprout. Pics are 2 days old. She is 43" tall 40 " girth and I hope she does not get much taller. Shes in fload and drain along with 2 lemmon kush. 400 watt hps. What do yah think?[/QUOTE]


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 29, 2012)

Very nice, she's huge. Probably going to get bigger since you have 20-30 days left.


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## foreverflyhi (Jul 29, 2012)

how does ur NL X BB smell? maybe ours are identical

u should check out the led forum section and look for A PICTURE SPEAKS A THOUSAND WORDS SHOW OFF YOUR LED GROW HERB
i posted pics of my NL X BB going on to 2 months cure. check it

your grow was sick, whats next?


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 29, 2012)

I usually have the plants together, but last time I checked it was still kind of regular weed smelling. Smelled like loud, is the best I can say. The Blue Mammoth has a sweet cappuccino smell to me though.

Your picks were awesome. How much of the NLxBB do you have? I'm probably going to do Barney's Pineapple Chunk although I might want to do the Critical Kush. Just gonna do one though.


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 29, 2012)

did you do any topping cloud?


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 29, 2012)

Normally I would of, but because I thought these were autos I decided not to. A regular photoperiod I would of topped.


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 29, 2012)

Well you still got a bunch of kolas. so yay!


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 30, 2012)

Watered today with 3/4 tsp of epsom salt and 1 tbsp of molasses. Wasn't planning on adding the epsom salt until I saw how many yellow leaves I had compared to 2 days ago on the Northern Lights. I should be fine on the NPK, so I could only thing mag would be the issue. I should be fine on the mag too considering I just added lime, but who knows. I watered the Blue Mammoth with the same water. Next watering for sure will be with just molasses. When I run out of Grandma's Molasses I'm going to get some Blackstrap which apparently is the highest quality molasses. Was about $3 at the farmer's market for a 32oz(used for cooking), I haven't actually checked my local stores. FM is about 30 miles away 

Checked the triches. A little bit more cloudy than clear, but almost no amber. Checked a few buds around the top and bottom and on one of the popcorn buds on the Blue Mammoth I saw this weird *purple/black* stuff on it. Looks exactly like the stuff that was on one of the top bud's leaves, but I could only see it with the 60x. I cut off the popcorn bud and put it in my closet to dry. I'll check it out tomorrow as well. No other bud I checked on either plant had it. I checked about 4-5 buds top and bottom on both plants. I checked all of the tops of course. I was going to smoke it as I haven't sampled the Northern Lights and it was getting in the way anyway, but...now I don't think I will.

Few comparison picks. Apparently I couldn't into depth of field so I think the lighter looks a lot closer to the camera than the bud. The lighter is about the same size as the bud if you can't tell. The Blue Mammoth is a bit thicker than taller while the Northern Lights is a lot taller than thicker, although that one bud is getting pretty big. It barely has any space to hold it so it looks pretty thick. Did so much LSTing I'm not sure what the real top is anymore. Plant(s) smell amazing. The Northern Lights has really started sticking. Closest I can say is it's kinda skunkish, kinda sweet.

I plan to let the plants go until next Sunday, but depending of course on if the plants want to finish on schedule(which they've failed to do at every chance).


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## Lady.J (Jul 30, 2012)

What's your humidity like? I'm praying that the purple / black stuff isn't mold!

They look good otherwise and is a good thing that you didn't see it anywhere else. How much of your sample do you have left? . Mine always lasted me a lot less longer than anticipated


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## Flaming Pie (Jul 30, 2012)

I have a dehumidifier in the basement. It is going IN the grow area when my plants reach that vulnerable age.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 30, 2012)

Ambient humidity is 52%. I have a 10" fan bringing air in the bin, a 4" fan blowing air up inside the bin and two 4" fans blowing air out. I can't imagine humidity being any higher than my 1 ceiling fan room. When I had the acu-rite in the bin humidity never hit above 60%, that was during lights off. From what I've seen of mold it's usually white not purple even at the microscopic level. My sample lasted about a day. Smoked 4 bowls that day. I have about half a bowl left. Haven't had a chance to smoke it.


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## Lady.J (Jul 30, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Ambient humidity is 52%. I have a 10" fan bringing air in the bin, a 4" fan blowing air up inside the bin and two 4" fans blowing air out. I can't imagine humidity being any higher than my 1 ceiling fan room. When I had the acu-rite in the bin humidity never hit above 60%, that was during lights off. From what I've seen of mold it's usually white not purple even at the microscopic level. My sample lasted about a day. Smoked 4 bowls that day. I have about half a bowl left. Haven't had a chance to smoke it.


I guess you've never heard of black mold . Not saying that's what _your_ plants have, but it's a greenish / blackish mold that can be found on plants. From your humidity numbers, it doesn't seem likely you'd have mold though. Wonder wtf it is? Maybe just dust gathering or something? Do you have something to help catch dust on your intake? Lol my samples didn't make it past one day either....something about knowing you have a lot more where it came from me thinks hehe.


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## Cloudz2600 (Jul 30, 2012)

Lady.J said:


> I guess you've never heard of black mold . Not saying that's what _your_ plants have, but it's a greenish / blackish mold that can be found on plants. From your humidity numbers, it doesn't seem likely you'd have mold though. Wonder wtf it is? Maybe just dust gathering or something? Do you have something to help catch dust on your intake? Lol my samples didn't make it past one day either....something about knowing you have a lot more where it came from me thinks hehe.


Well the stuff in these two pics look the same, but I needed a 60x instead of 30x to see the stuff on the sample I took today. I don't have anything to gather dust and it is sitting on the floor in a corner of my room, so it may be dust... I did notice a lot of dust on the exhaust fans. I only clean it like once a month though. The only reason I wouldn't assume is mold is because my humidity isn't 70%+ and I have pretty decent airflow. Most of the fan leaves are moving from the wind.

I can see how people keep taking "samples" till there is nothing left lol. I think I'll probably harvest the tops on Sunday and wait till next thursday to harvest the lower buds. Most of what I saw on the lower end of the plants was clear.


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## Lady.J (Jul 31, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Well the stuff in these two pics look the same, but I needed a 60x instead of 30x to see the stuff on the sample I took today. I don't have anything to gather dust and it is sitting on the floor in a corner of my room, so it may be dust... I did notice a lot of dust on the exhaust fans. I only clean it like once a month though. The only reason I wouldn't assume is mold is because my humidity isn't 70%+ and I have pretty decent airflow. Most of the fan leaves are moving from the wind.
> 
> I can see how people keep taking "samples" till there is nothing left lol. I think I'll probably harvest the tops on Sunday and wait till next thursday to harvest the lower buds. Most of what I saw on the lower end of the plants was clear.


Yea it's probably just dust...I noticed all the crap on my outtake fan blades too so decided to put a stocking over the intake opening. Noticed a lot less dust after that. It's a good thing you are harvesting soon! I wonder how many more tops I would have had if I didn't keep sampling the girls


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 1, 2012)

So I decided I'm going to get Neptune's Harvest Fish and Seaweed, but the individual bottles not the combined thing for my next grow. Can get both for $32(Shipping included) cheaper than $50 from Neptune's Harvest's actual website ^_^

I had more success with organics fixing my problems than I did with synthetics so I've been converted . That and I won't need to flush. I guess I also have to pick up some Blackstrap molasses I just ran out on today's feeding. It's $25 at wal-mart(3 miles away) or $3 at the farmer's market(30 miles). Talk about paying for convince. I'll probably go to the farmer's market, because the place is awesome.

I think that's all I really need to buy besides the LED. Still not sure if a PG-180 will be too powerful and bleach the leaves in my limited space. A 12/12 plant should be a lot smaller than a 20/4 1 month veg.

EDIT: Smoked a bowl of sample of the NL, very small popcorn bud(3 1/2 bowls). Pretty high. Maintenance came over to kill some wasps nest. When they knocked on the door I thought it was game over for me lol.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 1, 2012)

Cloudz, are you in the USA?
ANY local super market should sell the Molasses for under $4.
You SURE you are looking at the right stuff at Wal-Mart? Or maybe it's a huge jug of it. LOL

I used to use Neptune's Fish and Seaweed Emulsion. Stopped using it and went to FF.
Noticed a huge difference after the swap. Wait until you smell that shit. LOL


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## Lady.J (Aug 1, 2012)

KidneyStoner420 said:


> Cloudz, are you in the USA?
> ANY local super market should sell the Molasses for under $4.
> You SURE you are looking at the right stuff at Wal-Mart? Or maybe it's a huge jug of it. LOL
> 
> ...


He knows that molasses are cheap at wal-mart...but they carry reg unsulphered molasses and he noticed that blackstrap molasses from the farmer's market have a higher mag content and are more of a premium molasses for plants. To get those, he has to drive 30 miles (i think?) away. 

Fish hydrolysate and fish emulsion are two different things....fish hydrolysate only has an odor if you put your nose up close to it. I use the fish & seaweed mix and like my plants better for it versus FF. Discovered that Grow Big is not actually organic...only the big bloom is (don't know if tiger bloom is, didn't use it). So fish & seaweed is a better option than the grow big veg nutes from the fox farm line-up when desiring an organic source of nutrients.


EDIT: The product in question is actually called Neptune's Harvest Hydrolyzed Fish and Seaweed Fertilizer. I'm not sure they actually make emulsion at all? Might be wrong but don't remember seeing it...but yea, hydrolyzed = minimal smell.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 1, 2012)

http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_query=molasses&ic=16_0&Find=Find&search_constraint=0, I've smelled the fish blend. Smells like fish, but not once you add it to water and dilute it. Kelp/seaweed doesn't really stink to me.

Pretty much agree with everything Lady said. They don't make emulsion. The whole selling point is making it by using cold press. Blackstrap molasses(at least the one I saw at the farmer's market) had 25% mag, and 25% iron. Grandma's is 2% for both.


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## Lady.J (Aug 1, 2012)

Thanks for the molasses list....I guess it's good to get a bunch at one time anyway... 6 x 32oz for 25 bucks isn't bad at all


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 1, 2012)

You know what,I didn't notice it was for a pack of 6. $2 more each, but it saved me a drive.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 1, 2012)

I started my first clone. I made cloned off of NL#1. You have to have your nose damn near on her to smell anything. That's what I want. NL#2 on the other hand... she is sooooo smelly.

NL clone #1



Btw, that mat was here when I bought the house lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 1, 2012)

Noticed the beginning of a N def on both plants(yellowing starting from inside out). More obvious on the Northern Lights, but you can see the Blue Mammoth is starting to have lighter leaves as well. Because of that I watered with 1 tbsp of molasses and 2 cap fulls of the fish blend. It's organic so I don't have to worry about flushing it out and it was in a pretty mild dose compared to the 1 oz per gallon I used to use. Gave all the yellow/yellowing leaves a light tug. Some came off just by me brushing my hand next to em. The leaves at the top are pretty good. Very yellow, but they all stuck to the plant.

Bought some Slow As Blackstrap Molasses from Publix for $4.69 for a 32oz. A 16oz at 1 tbsp per watering lasted me around 1 1/2 months. Since Blackstrap is more concentrated I'll lower it to 2 tsp(.66 of a tablespoon) and possibly even 1. Should last me a good while. I'm not going to use any synthetic fertilizer and as long as the leaves don't get really worse will continue watering with just molasses(I know I keep saying that).

Trichomes are mostly cloudy with very few amber scattered around. Didn't see a lot of clear, at least not compared to cloudy. I would say 80% are cloudy. Probably 15-18% clear and around 2% cloudy. Blue Mammoth's colas are really starting to fatten up. Still seems like the Northern Lights is going to come out on top. 

Haven't bought a scale yet. Probably just going to "rent" one. I really don't want to buy one. Planning on harvesting on Sunday. Kinda falls on a odd day because that's when I'll probably need to water(every 2 days or so). I do plan on only harvesting the top colas and the larger middle buds depending on the triches. I'll probably harvest what's left on Thursday(day before I move). Not sure what's a good way to transport non dried bud, but I'll probably pack it in some tupperware/mason jars(if I decide to buy them before I leave, haven't checked wal-mart). 

Besides a closet(losing my walk-in) what's a good way to dry buds? I thought about getting a shoebox or something similar in design, putting some wax paper down and putting it in there. I read that you shouldn't leave the buds on one side because the crystals may stick to the material and come off, not sure about wax paper though. I could use the grow bin I guess. Not sure how I would hang them without a bar though. Maybe tie/tape a string from one end to the other?


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Did you mean to say "outside in" versus "inside out"? N deficiency starts from the bottom of the plant, working it's way from the tips to the stem of the leaf. If it's starting from the inside out, it could be phosphorus or potassium deficiency. I'm not so good at distinguishing those yet....but hopefully the fish blend helps anyway since it has a little of both. I now see why it's good to have different sources of each nutrient...so if you're lacking in one (like potassium) you don't have to give the plant Nitrogen when it doesn't necessarily need it just to get it the K. I know that too much N will lockout Mag, but will it lockout the others eventually too? 

As for drying, a string up in the grow bin will work perfect. I taped the ends of one up in my closet and dried the buds like that just fine. Throw your thermometer and a fan in there.....should be good to go.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Yea I meant outside in lol. I doubt it's mag because I've added lime and epsom salt for a few waterings now. I think I added 1-3-2 four days ago and 16-10-30 a few days before that. I haven't added *any *N in about 2-3 weeks. That and potassium def has green veins, but yellow leaves while this is yellow all over. It's all over the plant as well, top, middle and bottom. I don't think it will lock out mag because I've had a N abundance in the Blue Mammoth for about a month now lol. Doesn't molasses have potassium in it as well?


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Yea I meant outside in lol. I doubt it's mag because I've added lime and epsom salt for a few waterings now. I think I added 1-3-2 four days ago and 16-10-30 a few days before that. I haven't added *any *N in about 2-3 weeks. That and potassium def has green veins, but yellow leaves while this is yellow all over. It's all over the plant as well, top, middle and bottom. I don't think it will lock out mag because I've had a N abundance in the Blue Mammoth for about a month now lol. Doesn't molasses have potassium in it as well?


I'm confused...you said you added 1-3-2 and 16-10-30 recently but no N in 2-3 weeks? You have N in both of those nutes! If they were without N, they'd read 0-3-2 and 0-10-30. It just looks kind of odd to be Nitrogen deficiency because there are leaves at the top that are completely yellow while there are green leaves towards the bottom. Usually, by the time N deficiency has reached the top, the majority of the plant is yellow or has lost it's leaves...I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure on that.

Just found out that too much mag locks out other nutrients! Maybe you've been overdoing it with the mag treatments trying get your babies back to being healthy...I did the same when mine showed N deficiency!

But all in all...you're about to harvest so isn't really too much you can do, but good to keep in mind for next time I guess (that's if I'm even right at all, not 100% on that!)


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

They have N, but small amounts and I'm not using a lot of fertilizer anyway. 1/4 tsp is the smallest dose you're supposed to give and that's meant for every watering. I should of said "N heavy fertilizer". Only reason it's more green at the bottom is because *every *time I water I usually pull off the 6-7 leaves that are yellow, the bottom of my plant is pretty bare. They're usually just about as yellow as the worst one you see in the pics, but they don't stay attached, which is why I was surprised the top leaves didn't fall off. There are a good number of leaves that are yellow at the bottom/middle when I don't remove them, but they're already dead at that point so no point in leaving them on.

Just going off of this: https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/488004-guide-nutrient-deficiency-toxicity.html, but it doesn't look like P(green on the tips, not in the center, no brown(that was from cal def)), no green center of the leaves like K and it really doesn't look like a mag def. I've got plenty of lime so I'm fine on cal and mag should be fine too. It's possible it's a cal lockout(I did add a lot of lime), but I think a mag lockout would stop cal intake, which is fine.

Also I did mean inside out(it's still morning), the yellowing is starting in the middle of the leaves and working it's way out, creating a yellow leaf with green tips and then progressing to an entirely yellow leaf.


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> They have N, but small amounts and I'm not using a lot of fertilizer anyway. 1/4 tsp is the smallest dose you're supposed to give and that's meant for every watering. I should of said "N heavy fertilizer". Only reason it's more green at the bottom is because *every *time I water I usually pull off the 6-7 leaves that are yellow, the bottom of my plant is pretty bare. They're usually just about as yellow as the worst one you see in the pics, but they don't stay attached, which is why I was surprised the top leaves didn't fall off. There are a good number of leaves that are yellow at the bottom/middle when I don't remove them, but they're already dead at that point so no point in leaving them on.
> 
> Just going off of this: https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/488004-guide-nutrient-deficiency-toxicity.html, but it doesn't look like P(green on the tips, not in the center, no brown(that was from cal def)), no green center of the leaves like K and it really doesn't look like a mag def. I've got plenty of lime so I'm fine on cal and mag should be fine too. It's possible it's a cal lockout(I did add a lot of lime), but I think a mag lockout would stop cal intake, which is fine.
> 
> Also I did mean inside out(it's still morning), the yellowing is starting in the middle of the leaves and working it's way out, creating a yellow leaf with green tips and then progressing to an entirely yellow leaf.


Yea I was thinking the mag actually locked out cal or iron. I believe mag can lock out other nutes too though? I need to do more research on nutrient abundance and deficiency to be sure, but I thought I saw that mentioned. I didn't realize you were having to pull so many leaves from the bottom. Sounds a lot like what was happening to my skunk...but I think I had a p and K deficiency...had green veins and necrosis on the edges of some leaves. What messes me up is that the deficiencies end up changing....like moving from N to mag...can be hard to keep track of wtf is going on!


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

NL has been _*painfully*_ fickle from the start. I'll probably chalk it up it bad genetics/pheno. I guess I'll know in a few days(if 2 cap fulls was enough) if it was N or not. 

How did you get your fans to stay in place? I'm just a little bit uneven on one side, but have been using tape stuck to the outside to stick to the edges of the fans. It's been falling out of place lately though.


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> NL has been _*painfully*_ fickle from the start. I'll probably chalk it up it bad genetics/pheno. I guess I'll know in a few days(if 2 cap fulls was enough) if it was N or not.
> 
> How did you get your fans to stay in place? I'm just a little bit uneven on one side, but have been using tape stuck to the outside to stick to the edges of the fans. It's been falling out of place lately though.


Yea she has been giving you problems from the start huh? Well this is your first grow, I still think you did a kick ass job...and you did much better than me in how you've been able to stay away from sampling the SHIT out of the plants lmao. When you ask about the fans, do you mean the intake and exhaust? I cut little velcro squares and placed them on the four corners of the fans, and then put some on the corners of the openings... that keeps them in place very well.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Did you really sample that much lol. It's pretty hard not to sample anymore after that first one. I know if I wait 3 more days I'll be much better off though...3 long days... 

Yea, I meant the intake and exhaust. Velcro is actually a very good idea. You can still take the fans out easily I bet too.


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Did you really sample that much lol. It's pretty hard not to sample anymore after that first one. I know if I wait 3 more days I'll be much better off though...3 long days...
> 
> Yea, I meant the intake and exhaust. Velcro is actually a very good idea. You can still take the fans out easily I bet too.


You have no idea how much I sampled LOL...several branches from each plant. We'll never know how many tops I could have had . I stopped counting how many branches I took after the 3rd...couldn't stand the guilt of knowing exactly how much lol!! 

Yup, velcro makes it really easy to take the fans off and put them on. I am a velcro convert! I bought a roll from walmart and have found all kinds of uses for it. Ended up securing my scrog screen with velcro and zip ties!


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Decided I'm going to go with the BS180. 130w actual draw so it's a little on the weak side, but I'm worried I won't be able to keep the plants a foot or lower and the BS240 will bleach the plants by being too close. They say keep it 10-14" away from the canopy and my bin is 2'9" in height. I can add a pair of 42w bulbs on each side if I'm lacking light. And it's $50 less than the 240 so I can "save" enough to get the Neptune's Harvest line and maybe something for a proper SCROG net.

Hmm on second thought the pot I have now is 8" tall and the plant is about 1 1/2(after I stopped LSTing)...I might be able to keep it away if I get a long/wide bed and do a good job at LST/SCROG...hmm hard choice.


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Decided I'm going to go with the BS180. 130w actual draw so it's a little on the weak side, but I'm worried I won't be able to keep the plants a foot or lower and the BS240 will bleach the plants by being too close. They say keep it 10-14" away from the canopy and my bin is 2'9" in height. I can add a pair of 42w bulbs on each side if I'm lacking light. And it's $50 less than the 240 so I can "save" enough to get the Neptune's Harvest line and maybe something for a proper SCROG net.
> 
> Hmm on second thought the pot I have now is 8" tall and the plant is about 1 1/2(after I stopped LSTing)...I might be able to keep it away if I get a long/wide bed and do a good job at LST/SCROG...hmm hard choice.


Yea...you might be able to get away with it with good LST / Scrog...


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## foreverflyhi (Aug 2, 2012)

Don't do it. Don't get it.. Keep looking or u will be disappointed just like every other grower who jumps right into led growing then fails and automatically looks down on LED. I recommended you keep looking, if money is a issue then save and wait. Just my two cents from the state of California


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 2, 2012)

LED is retarded expensive. Unless I was a caregiver I def would not buy a panel. No way to recoup the cost.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

foreverflyhi said:


> Don't do it. Don't get it.. Keep looking or u will be disappointed just like every other grower who jumps right into led growing then fails and automatically looks down on LED. I recommended you keep looking, if money is a issue then save and wait. Just my two cents from the state of California


Money isn't an issue, space and stealth is. I don't live in a MMJ state. I can't buy a tent because it screams "I grow pot." I'm losing my walk in closet when I move, so I'll have to just use it for clothes. I could buy the PG180, but it will likely be too powerful unless I figure out how to keep it a good distance away from the canopy. So I'm either stuck with CFLs because I can keep them 2-3" from the tops or a weaker powered LED that won't bleach my plants. Unless you have an alternative for someone who doesn't live in a MMJ state, needs stealth and doesn't plan to ever grow more than 2 plants, but usually just 1.



Flaming Pie said:


> LED is retarded expensive. Unless I was a caregiver I def would not buy a panel. No way to recoup the cost.


Besides the high initial cost LEDs are great compared to CFLs/HID. Lower energy useage, which means less chance of the electric company snooping. Doesn't create hot spots on a radar like HID does. It's a shit ton cooler than both so I can't have to worry about cooling when the temps get to 105F in the summer. Also you recoup the cost on the amount of energy you're saving compared to something of similar wattage, besides the other reasons.



tip top toker said:


> Define "worth it"..
> 
> Are things like reduced power bills and lower heat output, which as such potentially lower your risk of being busted, included in the notion of "worth it"?


https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/548455-led-worth.html


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Besides the high initial cost LEDs are great compared to CFLs/HID. Lower energy useage, which means less chance of the electric company snooping. Doesn't create hot spots on a radar like HID does. It's a shit ton cooler than both so I can't have to worry about cooling when the temps get to 105F in the summer. Also you recoup the cost on the amount of energy you're saving compared to something of similar wattage, besides the other reasons.


Interesting note...a HID (let's say 400w) won't make the electric company come snooping. More than likely, it could pass as a new gaming system or stereo. As for hot spots...did you know the police have to have a warrant to check your home for hotspots much like a warrant to enter your house? If they have a warrant, you're probably fucked anyway. Radars are usually used to detect massive ops, they're looking for the front page drug busts...not a stoner with a couple plants . As for cooling, my tent runs cooler than my closet AND bin. 400w of MH is running cooler than 380w of CFL!! And I recently read an article that said watt for watt, HID is cooler. Since the high temps have broke, my tent runs at a steady 79 degrees...and that's with one of the cheapest 6in inline fans you can get...not to mention, I have one AC unit cooling my house on energy saver settings, no central air . Not trying to convince you to go HID but wanted to clear things up because I thought exactly the same as you before I decided to buy one. I have seen a few people running 150-200w HIDs in cooltubes with virtually no heat....plants touching the glass and all. And they are used in cabs smaller than our bins! I will try to find a link or two for you if you care to see them.

EDIT: Almost forgot...someone relayed to me that it is an exaggeration that LEDs run with virtually no heat. This guy complained to me about his blackstar claiming that he was having heat issues despite expecting a drastic heat reduction compared to HID.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Well getting a tent isn't an option to start with. Landlord takes the out of sight out of mind approach, but not much out of sight if I have a tent in a room. He says he usually just does monthly visits to make sure everything is working, I'm not running a drug cartel from his house, etc. So getting an inline fan isn't an option either. Watt for watt HID is probably cooler *with* a cool tube. To be fair I doubt it's cooler by itself.

A link or two would be cool though. Haven't seen a lot of 150-200w HID grows and definitely not in smaller cabs than ours. Seems people usually start with 250.


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Well getting a tent isn't an option to start with. Landlord takes the out of sight out of mind approach, but not much out of sight if I have a tent in a room. He says he usually just does monthly visits to make sure everything is working, I'm not running a drug cartel from his house, etc. So getting an inline fan isn't an option either. Watt for watt HID is probably cooler *with* a cool tube. To be fair I doubt it's cooler by itself.
> 
> A link or two would be cool though. Haven't seen a lot of 150-200w HID grows and definitely not in smaller cabs than ours. Seems people usually start with 250.


Yea, I understand about the tent...I meant HID inside the bins though. Small wattage HIDs are easy as hell to cool, you just use computer fans like you would for CFLs. Have you consider converting a wooden cabinet / wardrobe / locker in order to get more vertical while maintaining stealth? Only ask because you said money isn't an object .

Actually remember reading that HID is cooler watt for watt versus CFLs without a cooltube being mentioned... I wish I could find where I read it, but I got in an argument with someone in favor of CFLs a while back and they had linked it to me lol. So if you have a 400w actual watt CFL it will run hotter than a 400w HPS. This guy named 'Exploring' explains the whole 'CFLs run cooler than HID' better than I do: "You can have more heat, spread out over a larger area [with CFLs]. It's the same premise the heatsink in your computer works on. The CPU puts out however many watts of heat, and then the heatsink wicks it away and distributes it out over a larger surface area so it's easier to cool. Imagine how much surface area a 400 (actual) watt CFL would have! The 65 watt bulbs are bigger than a 1000W HID as it is."

I have much better temps with the 400w in my tent than I did with 380w in the bins...even when I ran the 400w without the cooltube set up, I had slightly cooler temps versus the 380w of CFL for *much* more lumens. I have heard other people switching from comparable watts of CFL to HID say the same thing. I know I am not using the same exact space so that can attribute for the variation, but it goes to show how much people exaggerate the heat from HID. It is also interesting to me that during our 'heatwave' here in the south, my tent ran 81-84 on average while my box 15 feet away with only *280w* of CFL ran at 90+ degrees. As you know, I ended up shutting down the bin and moving everything to the tent! I love my bin, and it really surprised me that the tent did so much better. I expected plants that burn easily and high temps...not at all!

Anyway, here are some links:

https://www.rollitup.org/stealth-micro-cab-growing/532936-crazytrains-stealth-150w-hps-dresser.html

https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/537407-150w-hps-fruity-chronic-juice.html

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/106339-150w-hps-club-inspirational-resource.html - lots of people using hps in small spaces posted tons of pages of pics here. On the first page is a rubbermaid one lol.


[video=youtube_share;iO6yL16JtN4]http://youtu.be/iO6yL16JtN4[/video]


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 2, 2012)

A 23w bulb costs roughly $1/month to power.
Therefore, a 250w would be around $12 or so. A 400w would be areound $17/month. NO electric company would be snooping for that. No worries.
Dollar for dollar, HID is unbeatable.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Links look promising. I'll give em a good read in a few. Money isn't really an object(to a limit ofc), but I hate DIY stuff. I'm not an organized person when it comes to building stuff so my area gets messy, then I get pissed because I can't find something, then I realized I didn't need it anyway, etc, etc. Building the bin was the absolute worst so I can only guess what messing with wood would be like.

No doubt your tent is probably cooler. The light is higher than the CFL lights and closer I imagine to the fans. You also have *much* more CFM than you did with 2 PC fans with a cool tube and an inline fan, I'm guessing.

I guess I'll look into low wattage HIDs.

1,337 posts Kindney ^_^


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

So just wondering, but how loud is a cool tube? Also how many inches do I need for a 150w? The deal you got on your setup was pretty nice Lady. Does that seller still have them for sale? Link?


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Not really an update, just an observation. Most of the hairs on the Northern Light have receded. Same with Blue Mammoth except for this one top. Looks kind of like it's fox tailing. Each of the calyxes have swelled up and starting putting out more white pistils. Yellowing is more obvious on both plants. I'm less than three days from harvest so I don't see it being that much of an issue. I'll just stop trying to fix it and water with molasses. Not sure how I feel about harvesting the top half of the Northern Lights and waiting till next thursday for the rest. Guess it was an update >.<

Oh Lady I was looking at cool tubes and they don't have a built in fan. So I'm guessing I need to buy one. What type of fan do I use for a cool tube?


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Links look promising. I'll give em a good read in a few. Money isn't really an object(to a limit ofc), but I hate DIY stuff. I'm not an organized person when it comes to building stuff so my area gets messy, then I get pissed because I can't find something, then I realized I didn't need it anyway, etc, etc. Building the bin was the absolute worst so I can only guess what messing with wood would be like.
> 
> No doubt your tent is probably cooler. The light is higher than the CFL lights and closer I imagine to the fans. You also have *much* more CFM than you did with 2 PC fans with a cool tube and an inline fan, I'm guessing.
> 
> ...


Ah ok, I didn't realize you disliked DIY...you are right though, the bins are a bit of a hassle lol. I could understand you not feeling like making a whole different set up.

My light isn't really that much higher and it's much farther from the fan. The advantage with cooltubes is that they take the heat straight from the bulb instead of you having to circulate the air inside to properly cool lighting. With the 200w CFL, it is advised you keep it 4 inches away...the cooltube is 8 inches away from the plants. I could have it even closer but I leave it higher since I want to spread the light to the plants on the outside too. My next upgrade will probably be another 400 so I can get better coverage. 

I took these pics just for you 















I don't know if you remember, but I used this same exact inline fan for ventilation in my closet with the 200w CFL + two 40 watt CFLs and struggled with 90+ degree temps just like my bin. I had to leave the door propped open just to keep the closet 85-88 degrees. Tent still runs cooler than the closet with CFLs and the door propped open.




Cloudz2600 said:


> So just wondering, but how loud is a cool tube? Also how many inches do I need for a 150w? The deal you got on your setup was pretty nice Lady. Does that seller still have them for sale? Link?


The cool tube itself doesn't make any sound. The only sound you have is from the inline fan. Mine is not quiet lol...but it was cheap and I don't mind the noise. It is comparable to the noise the AC makes when it comes on or just slightly louder than a large oscillating fan. I don't notice it anymore...and I often sleep in the same room as it. Paid 29 bucks, free shipping, 240 CFM.

For a 150w cool tube, I imagine you could get within inches if I can get a 400w to 8 with no issues at all. 

The seller has the light setup I bought here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/180910944111?var=480166603130&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_5881wt_1037

It's dimmable by the way...

I'm so glad you're interested!!! I know you could do some shit with HID....


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

The fans are called Inline fans or ducting fans. You hook ducting to one end of the cooltube, connect the other end of the duting to the fan, and then connect ducting from your fan to the exhaust opening and it's good to go. Ducting is pretty cheap by the way....I paid 4 bucks for a long piece...wish I could remember how many feet, but it's long enough to run from the bottom of the tent to the top with some left over.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 2, 2012)

Def do it cloudz. U can get a 250 kit and make your own cooltube like me. 
Also, I just checked the contents of my molasses. It's made by Brer Rabbit and has 25% Mag and 20% Cal.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Lady.J said:


> I took these pics just for you


Aw I feel special now 

Right inlines...I wish there was a sticky like there is for CFLs lol. First thing that came up on the ebay search: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Inline-Booster-Fan-6-6-Inch-240-CFM-Air-Direct-Air-Flow-Duct-Hydroponic-120-V-/390354457841?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae2f054f1#ht_2012wt_1166, I'll figure out decibels later, but this is, in general, what I'm looking for right? I'll basically have the cool tube on the ceiling of the bin(I assume the hangers will be adjustable, hopefully) and have the inline running from the same place I have the exhaust fans now to the tube? So 6" cool tube gets a 6" inline fan?

I'm guessing the cool tube isn't air tight so the inline will work as my exhaust fan for the rest of the area as well so I could still have a passive intake. Although I'll probably put one of the PC fans as one of my intakes if the inline is all I need for exhaust. Just looked at your pic, will I need ducting as well?

You seem like a resident expert on HIDs now lol. If you wanna do some shopping for me I have a budget of $250 lol.

It's probably cheaper to buy some manufacture's bundle, but do I need a 150w ballast to run a 150w bulb or can I get say a 250w ballast and still be fine.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

KidneyStoner420 said:


> Def do it cloudz. U can get a 250 kit and make your own cooltube like me.
> Also, I just checked the contents of my molasses. It's made by Brer Rabbit and has 25% Mag and 20% Cal.


Yea I just noticed the stuff I have says 10% cal so I'm guessing 15% mag. Still better than the 2% of Grandma's. Really wasn't feeling that drive to the farmer's market to get the same stuff. I may just use the stuff I use for cooking and swap it out with the stuff I just bought. It has 25% cal/mag.


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Aw I feel special now
> 
> Right inlines...I wish there was a sticky like there is for CFLs lol. First thing that came up on the ebay search: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Inline-Booster-Fan-6-6-Inch-240-CFM-Air-Direct-Air-Flow-Duct-Hydroponic-120-V-/390354457841?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae2f054f1#ht_2012wt_1166, I'll figure out decibels later, but this is, in general, what I'm looking for right? I'll basically have the cool tube on the ceiling of the bin(I assume the hangers will be adjustable, hopefully) and have the inline running from the same place I have the exhaust fans now to the tube? So 6" cool tube gets a 6" inline fan?
> 
> ...


Lol I know right...it was much harder for me to find out info on HID. Had to read a lot of grows to get an idea of what to do and what I'd need. What you linked looks just like the fan I have, but yup, that's what you're looking for in general. Usually, the lights come with hangers...but I think it has been easier for people to mount it in small places and just raise the plants close to it if they need to be. And yup, you'd have the inline positioned at the same place you have the exhaust...I'd imagine in the bin that you'd probably be able to connect them right to each other with minimal ducting if any at all. 6in tube to 6 in fan is correct. Same with ducting.

Just thought about it, it' probably be a pain in the ass to open the bin with the light hanging or being mounted. IF you did think about a little cabinet, the only DIY you'd have to do is to cut intake and exhaust, then a circle in the back to feed wires through. I think I've heard people saying they take things to lowes to have them cut? Hell, you could probably build the box cheap as hell after you have Lowe's cut the dimensions you want. I know I know...you don't like DIY, but it's not that hard to just make a square box...that's IF you think about switching.

You're right, the cooltube isn't air tight. The end that houses the socket is left open to draw air across the light, and passive intake works well. I don't need anything else for intake even though the tent is 4x4x6.8. You will probably only need ducting if you plan on raising and lowering the actual light. 

Lol I'm far from an expert...but I studied the hell out of it like a true nerd . I don't mind looking around for you at all 

Now the ballast question, you might want to look that up because I'm not entirely sure, but I believe you can run a 150 on a 250 ballast with no issues. Manufacturer bundle is better to me because it comes with reflector, lamp, bulbs, ballast, hangers, and timer! And if it's a good bundle, warranty


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 2, 2012)

$183 shipped to your door.
6" cooltube/reflector, 400w MH and HPS bulbs 400w dimmable ballast (dims to 250 and *150*!), timer, ratchet hangers (way better than yo-yos)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400W-250W-150W-DIMMABLE-DIGITAL-BALLAST-MH-HPS-6-AIR-COOLTUBE-GROW-LIGHT-KIT-/380452613251?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5894be2c83


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

KidneyStoner420 said:


> $183 shipped to your door.
> 6" cooltube/reflector, 400w MH and HPS bulbs 400w dimmable ballast (dims to 250 and *150*!), timer, ratchet hangers (way better than yo-yos)
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400W-250W-150W-DIMMABLE-DIGITAL-BALLAST-MH-HPS-6-AIR-COOLTUBE-GROW-LIGHT-KIT-/380452613251?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5894be2c83


I paid $150 for mine...all the same as above except the bulbs also have 1 year warranties, and the ballast has a 3 year warranty. Was the best deal I found on the net. However...that big ass cool tube isn't fitting in sterilite bins lol. I'm trying to find a regular 250 w/ cooltube but without any luck...everything 250 with a tube is listed as dimmable from a 400 or 600w.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Lady.J said:


> Lol I know right...it was much harder for me to find out info on HID. Had to read a lot of grows to get an idea of what to do and what I'd need. What you linked looks just like the fan I have, but yup, that's what you're looking for in general. Usually, the lights come with hangers...but I think it has been easier for people to mount it in small places and just raise the plants close to it if they need to be. And yup, you'd have the inline positioned at the same place you have the exhaust...I'd imagine in the bin that you'd probably be able to connect them right to each other with minimal ducting if any at all. 6in tube to 6 in fan is correct. Same with ducting.
> 
> Just thought about it, it' probably be a pain in the ass to open the bin with the light hanging or being mounted. IF you did think about a little cabinet, the only DIY you'd have to do is to cut intake and exhaust, then a circle in the back to feed wires through. I think I've heard people saying they take things to lowes to have them cut? Hell, you could probably build the box cheap as hell after you have Lowe's cut the dimensions you want. I know I know...you don't like DIY, but it's not that hard to just make a square box...that's IF you think about switching.
> 
> ...


Well it can't be any harder than dealing with 2 reflectors and two bulbs on a surge protector hanging if I mount it right to the ceiling. I could probably use books(not like I use em anyway) or blocks of wood or something to raise the pot(s) instead of raising the lights, that's a good idea.

Where would I get a cabinet though? Or are you saying get 4 pieces of wood, get Lowe's to cut em to dimensions(they can probably cut the holes for me too), go back home and build a box? The only part I don't like about that is IF I have to get a nail and hammer and build it.

I figure I won't need an intake fan if I have a decent(200+ CFM) fan, but since I'll have two 60 CFM fans laying around why not use em?

I'll look around ebay for some bundles I guess. So I'm looking for a cool tube, ballast, bulb and inline fan. Did I miss anything?


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Lady.J said:


> I paid $150 for mine...all the same as above except the bulbs also have 1 year warranties, and the ballast has a 3 year warranty. Was the best deal I found on the net. However...that big ass cool tube isn't fitting in sterilite bins lol. I'm trying to find a regular 250 w/ cooltube but without any luck...everything 250 with a tube is listed as dimmable from a 400 or 600w.


Looking at the dimensions you bought eh CT27 cool tube from the link you posted both tubes are 27" long, 6" wide.


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Well it can't be any harder than dealing with 2 reflectors and two bulbs on a surge protector hanging if I mount it right to the ceiling. I could probably use books(not like I use em anyway) or blocks of wood or something to raise the pot(s) instead of raising the lights, that's a good idea.
> 
> Where would I get a cabinet though? Or are you saying get 4 pieces of wood, get Lowe's to cut em to dimensions(they can probably cut the holes for me too), go back home and build a box? The only part I don't like about that is IF I have to get a nail and hammer and build it.
> 
> ...


You could buy a regular cabinet say for garage storage...or like the european wardrobes, looks like a locker for clothes...that would probably even be better stealth than the bins. And yup, Lowes would cut everything out that you need, all you have to do is hammer. I feel you if that isn't your thing though. If I knew you in person I'd come do it for you! I love that kind of shit lol.

Want to know what's weird? My temps went up when I added a fan to my intake. I guess the passive intake is better depending on the CFMs being pushed out? 

The only thing you missed is ducting, but that's cheap and you can get it easy at home depot or lowe's. 

I'm not having much luck finding a pure 150w or 250w hps. They are listing 400w and 600w systems and showing them as dimmable to 150 and 250 when I did a search...same thing on google. That's why it might be better to get a cabinet / closet. If I find a good one for you, will you maybe be interested? If not, I can keep trying to find 150s. You can always build your own cool tube so you can use the lower wattage light systems... which supposedly isn't that complicated...but I just bought it cuz it was only 30 bucks more than reg reflector and I didn't feel like bothering.


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Yea, it's big as hell. Looks like a mini bazooka. It's a no go in the box


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 2, 2012)

Just buy a Bake a round like I did. It's a 4" round cylinder made of Pyrex flass, and it's only 18" long or so.

Here's a pic of my 250 with the bake a round.


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Nice Kidney...4inches would be even better to save more space too...


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 2, 2012)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-PYREX-Corning-Bake-a-Round-Glass-Baking-Tube-/271027438744?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1a7e8498


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Lady.J said:


> I'm not having much luck finding a pure 150w or 250w hps. They are listing 400w and 600w systems and showing them as dimmable to 150 and 250 when I did a search...same thing on google. That's why it might be better to get a cabinet / closet. If I find a good one for you, will you maybe be interested? If not, I can keep trying to find 150s. You can always build your own cool tube so you can use the lower wattage light systems... which supposedly isn't that complicated...but I just bought it cuz it was only 30 bucks more than reg reflector and I didn't feel like bothering.


I have no problem with dimmable if it can still go down to 150w. That would problem be better than a regular 150 in case I ever wanted more light. When you mean find a good one, you mean a cabinet/closet or lighting system lol.



KidneyStoner420 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-PYREX-Corning-Bake-a-Round-Glass-Baking-Tube-/271027438744?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f1a7e8498


Nice! Can't beat $3.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 2, 2012)

I posted a dimmable 400/250/150


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I have no problem with dimmable if it can still go down to 150w. That would problem be better than a regular 150 in case I ever wanted more light. When you mean find a good one, you mean a cabinet/closet or lighting system lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice! Can't beat $3.


Lol thought the same about 3$

I thought you might like dimmable since you can upgrade later...the point is how HUGE the cooltube would be in the bin. Even though it doesn't weigh much, it'd def make the bin top heavy. Took a pic for you, used my man's hat for scale...figure most guys are familiar with that


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Frankly as long as the tube doesn't fall down on the plants and it fits I'll be fine. I'll probably try to get the bin how you had it and have it open the way you did and even then I only try to open it every 2 days or so. You saying I can't lift?  That's...a pretty big tube though.



KidneyStoner420 said:


> I posted a dimmable 400/250/150


I think the issue with that was the 27" long tube right? I've got about 25" end to end.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 2, 2012)

....Sigh.. I shoulda bought a grow tent. I spent damn near 100 anyways lol.


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Frankly as long as the tube doesn't fall down on the plants and it fits I'll be fine. I'll probably try to get the bin how you had it and have it open the way you did and even then I only try to open it every 2 days or so. You saying I can't lift?  That's...a pretty big tube though.
> 
> 
> I think the issue with that was the 27" long tube right? I've got about 25" end to end.


Don't forget to include room for the inline fan...and possible ducting...seems like it would be cramped. Don't see to many option unless you want to get into some DIY!


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Hmm...It seems that way too...So I either have too little vertical room for LEDs or too little horizontal for HIDs...FML. I *guess* I could look at doing a DIY cab...I think I lost my hammer lol. Alright let's see then. I'll need 6 sheets of wood right? Would any type of wood work? I'm probably looking for something decently thick right? More importantly what width/height should I be looking at? 3 feet long? 4 feet? 2'-2.5' is probably good for width.

Ugh...This is the reason I hate DIY lol. This is kinda making me want to look at getting a 40+ gallon sterilite bin. If my 30g is just a little bit too short a 40gal should be fine lol. No assembly and probably cheaper than buying 6 solid wood panels and having work done on it(or is that free?). I know they cut stuff down to size for you, but I'm not sure about them cutting holes, squares, etc. The sterilite would still be pretty portable(it fits in my coupe)...I think...Probably.

Doesn't look like what I have right now will work for me either way though. I guess I've got about a month(not a long time actually) to figure it out/buy what I need.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 2, 2012)

pilot holes and wood screws.. dont forget. and 2x4s to brace it.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 2, 2012)

Unless you were planning on walking into the box, i'd say no deeper than 3 feet. width depends on how many plants you will be growing.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 2, 2012)

btw they cant cut squares or holes.. I had to buy a jigsaw and circle drill cutter. (not the proper terms I'm sure)

The supplies and tools to build cost more than a nice grow tent would of been. But you can always reuse tools..


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Flaming Pie said:


> pilot holes and wood screws.. dont forget. and 2x4s to brace it. Unless you were planning on walking into the box, i'd say no deeper than 3 feet. width depends on how many plants you will be growing. btw they cant cut squares or holes.. I had to buy a jigsaw and circle drill cutter. (not the proper terms I'm sure)
> 
> The supplies and tools to build cost more than a nice grow tent would of been. But you can always reuse tools..


Haha...fuck that I'd rather get another pair of sterilite bins than buy all that* and* do the work. I had enough trouble cutting square 4" squares in plastic. I don't even want to keep the tools to boot.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Haha...fuck that I'd rather get another pair of sterilite bins than buy all that* and* do the work. I had enough trouble cutting square 4" squares in plastic. I don't even want to keep the tools to boot.


I do alot of sculpture and home repairs.. so tools are kewl.

I had alot of black/white poly and some spare wood and I made a new clone tent. FREE. sorta lol


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Damn...why is there not a wood shop that you can just go to and have simple things cut and assembled? Whatever you're going to do....I'm exciiiiiited lol.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

If there is a wood shop in my state it's not anywhere close. I've lived in my state for around 15 years and lived in the same city for 10, never seen a wood shop or at least a place that assembles my wood for me. I'm sure there's people that I could contract out to do a custom job, but as far as walking in, dropping stuff off and coming back to find it assembled? Nothing like that. The college I go to is in a middle of no where town so maybe they might have something like that.

Made a thread a little while ago, guy brought up a good point of PLLs. I know they're a lot cooler than CFLs, but I'm not sure about their lumen output. Ugh, I think I'm going to take another sample from one of the plants this isn't so much as stressful, but there's so many options.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/550833-switching-cfl-hps.html#post7804922


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> If there is a wood shop in my state it's not anywhere close. I've lived in my state for around 15 years and lived in the same city for 10, never seen a wood shop or at least a place that assembles my wood for me. I'm sure there's people that I could contract out to do a custom job, but as far as walking in, dropping stuff off and coming back to find it assembled? Nothing like that. The college I go to is in a middle of no where town so maybe they might have something like that.
> 
> Made a thread a little while ago, guy brought up a good point of PLLs. I know they're a lot cooler than CFLs, but I'm not sure about their lumen output. Ugh, I think I'm going to take another sample from one of the plants this isn't so much as stressful, but there's so many options.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/550833-switching-cfl-hps.html#post7804922



You are now in stage 2 of being in danger of smoking your plant before it fully dries...making excuses to smoke such as "I think I'm going to take another sample from one of the plants so this isn't so much as stressful..." Amazing how many new stresses I found that I needed MJ's aid in


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Lmao, I figure I'm rationalizing at this point, but if I just need to make the "sample" last 2 days since I plan to harvest in three. Ambient temp is around 79-80F so it will probably be a quick dry. Hand it inside the bin with a small 4" fan going(pointed away from the plants) 24/7 should probably make it a quick one...hopefully...Ok, I'm rationalizing. To be fair this is mildly like stressful though...


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Lmao, I figure I'm rationalizing at this point, but if I just need to make the "sample" last 2 days since I plan to harvest in three. Ambient temp is around 79-80F so it will probably be a quick dry. Hand it inside the bin with a small 4" fan going(pointed away from the plants) 24/7 should probably make it a quick one...hopefully...Ok, I'm rationalizing. To be fair this is mildly like stressful though...


Lol! I feel you though...some of the best ideas come when you're high! Maybe I can find a vid / thread of an easy to make box and might convince you to diy . I'll keep an eye out for smaller cool tubes as well.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Haha yea, I've had a few people telling me not to go HID in a plastic bin for obvious reasons. T5s are a lot cooler and are more efficient than HIDs. Unless I look at getting a larger space though this: http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-HTG-Supply-2-Foot-2-Lamp-PL-55-Tek-Lamp.asp# seems like the best bet. 2' long, 11" wide which would leave me with 9" long and around 3" wide left over. Only 10k lumens which apparently is high output for T5s.

EDIT: Just measured by bins. Combined I have 2'9" of vertical space, it's 2' 2" long and 14" wide.


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Haha yea, I've had a few people telling me not to go HID in a plastic bin for obvious reasons. T5s are a lot cooler and are more efficient than HIDs. Unless I look at getting a larger space though this: http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-HTG-Supply-2-Foot-2-Lamp-PL-55-Tek-Lamp.asp# seems like the best bet. 2' long, 11" wide which would leave me with 9" long and around 3" wide left over. Only 10k lumens which apparently is high output for T5s.


I think Lotus bulbs put out 15k lumens....but can't remember if that's the 125w or the 200w.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Yea the 200w is 15k, the 125 is 9.5k. Only thing is over how much of an area. Without a doubt 2' T5s would be better from a spread over area. I imagine 2 of those in their own separate reflector(oh I have 2 reflectors, lucky me) would be nice though...Hmm...400w run 12/12 is only $8 a month...5.5 cents KwH  And I have the room and set up for that already...


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 2, 2012)

Checked ebay for the 125 and the 200w...Damn 12" long? That's crazy. Also kind of weird how the 125 and the 200 are the same length?


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## Lady.J (Aug 2, 2012)

What the lotus bulbs? I don't think they're the same....because one absolutely does not fit in my box while the other does....


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 3, 2012)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230764333456#ht_3900wt_1163, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330661233408#ht_3935wt_1163 Yea, I'm not sure I can use the 200w mainly because it may be too wide to put in the reflectors. I have to use an adapter apparently though so I'm not sure.

The 6500k actually says 15" long 8 1/2" wide which is crazy. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330619999357#ht_3845wt_1163


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## Lady.J (Aug 3, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230764333456#ht_3900wt_1163, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330661233408#ht_3935wt_1163 Yea, I'm not sure I can use the 200w mainly because it may be too wide to put in the reflectors. I have to use an adapter apparently though so I'm not sure.
> 
> The 6500k actually says 15" long 8 1/2" wide which is crazy. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330619999357#ht_3845wt_1163


I'll put up the bin tomorrow and take a pic with the 125w so you can see how it looks inside...


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 3, 2012)

Ok thanks. I'll totally grab 2 if they can fit. I'll probably need to measure the reflectors though. $60 for 19k lumens is a good deal for me.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 3, 2012)

Watered the plants today with just Blackstrap molasses. That stuff is a lot darker than normal molasses. I should need to water in two more days(Sunday) which is when I'll harvest the top half of the plant. Sorta works out. I plan on using some string, taping it end to end in the bin and hang the buds there. It's the best way to make sure I have low enough humidity and it's pretty cool in there with the lights off.

Pretty severe yellowing on the Northern Lights and I took about 6 leaves off. Decent yellowing on the Blue Mammoth, took one leaf off. Figure anything I do won't fix it in two days so I'll just keep on doing what I'm doing.

Triches look to be about 75-80% cloudy, with a little less clear and even less amber. Took a sample about in the middle. Just the top, I'm not taking any branches. A good 3-4 bowls. High is preety nice. Not that much of a couch lock at first, but it's a creeper. Can't really comment on taste because I microwaved it. Smell is pretty stinky. I actually can't smell the Blue Mammoth if the Northern Lights is next to it. By itself BL doesn't have a stench and I can't smell it unless I'm right next to it.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 3, 2012)

Frosty =) Invite me over lol


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 5, 2012)

Today's harvest day!  Going to chop the girls down(or at least some tops) 2 hours before the lights come on. Read a few pages about chlorophyll only being produced during the light cycle or something like that. There was also a poll and the majority of people chopped a few hours before lights on. Seems like the consensus is that 24-72 hours of darkness before harvest to stressing the plant into increasing the thc amount(or trichome size depending on where you read) really doesn't have any scientific basing and the people who do do it for the most part just do it because "it can't hurt".

I'm split between letting the lower nodes getting an extra day or two and harvesting all of it so I can dry them all at once since I really only have 4 days to get a good dry. Gonna dry in my closet with a desk fan on the other side(walk in closet). RH is about 50% and temp is around 80F, without the fan. Seems ideal to me. I also think 2 out of three of the tops on the Blue Mammoth are fox tailing. That or they just decided to have the calyxes swell and start pushing out white hairs again. I think I'm still going to chop it regardless.

Looking up ways I can use the trim like this, http://forum.grasscity.com/harvesting-processing-marijuana/217220-hashmoufs-official-guides-homemade-hash-{step-step-pictorials}.html, but I'm not sure how much I'll have lol.


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## Lady.J (Aug 5, 2012)

Helllll yea! Waiting for the pics!


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 5, 2012)

bubble bags for the win =)


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 5, 2012)

Chopping while lights are off makes sense. Plants Photosynthesise with light, and that is what makes the chlorphyl. During darkness plants use all the stored energy from the day to build themselves. roots, new leaves, repair, etc.

I def think i will be chopping after a lights out period.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 5, 2012)

You gonna reveg em? Or did you take some clones?


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 5, 2012)

I didn't take any clones because they were supposed to be autos and the Northern Lights was so finicky that I wouldn't want to deal with that again. Blue Mammoth was easy to grow, but it wasn't that large of a yielder. Don't plan on revegging, just plan on cutting most of the top colas and letting the popcorn buds mature an extra day or 2.

I'd do bubble bags if I could lol. Not going to wait to order them though.

Nothing to do with harvesting, but I found this: http://www.nirvanashop.com/en/feminized-marijuana-seeds/812-chrystal-feminized-5-seeds.html. White Widow x Northern Lights. Sounds super tasty, super strong and super stinky.


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## Lady.J (Aug 5, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I didn't take any clones because they were supposed to be autos and the Northern Lights was so finicky that I wouldn't want to deal with that again. Blue Mammoth was easy to grow, but it wasn't that large of a yielder. Don't plan on revegging, just plan on cutting most of the top colas and letting the popcorn buds mature an extra day or 2.
> 
> I'd do bubble bags if I could lol. Not going to wait to order them though.


You can freeze the trimmings...I heard they make better hash that way because you lose less material. Then you can wait and decide what you want to do with them


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 5, 2012)

Yea, I planned on freezing them. I figure I'll do the method in the link because I have everything I need already. No doubt bubble hash is better, but I want hash now  Not sure how much I should trim off the buds though. I hear some people say they just cut the tips of the sugar leaves and some who cut everything off but the actual bud.

EDIT: Ah I do need to pick up jars, but I need that anyway for curing.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 5, 2012)

I dont think I will ever buy Nirvana. Check this out. http://www.dailysmoker.com/top-10-best-cannabis-marijuana-seed-banks

Dinafem/dutch passion will be my next purchase.


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## Lady.J (Aug 5, 2012)

Flaming Pie said:


> I dont think I will ever buy Nirvana. Check this out. http://www.dailysmoker.com/top-10-best-cannabis-marijuana-seed-banks
> 
> Dinafem/dutch passion will be my next purchase.


Yea...haven't heard many good things about Nirvana and Barney's....those are the two I've been avoiding. Someone sent me a Barney LSD, will see how it smokes!


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 5, 2012)

I bought ministry of cannabis for my first seeds. didnt know any better. The two plants are soooo different. I hope NL#1 produces well. NL#2 is being retarded. I added some fish fertilizer today. Hopefully I see improvement soon.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 5, 2012)

I heard Barney's fem seeds hermied a bit more than usual and I heard Nirvana's auto seeds usually weren't true autos. Besides that I haven't really heard anything bad about em. The Pineapple Chunk(and Pineapple Express) and LSD grows usually turn out pretty nice and there's a Blue Mystic grow that just finished that looks great as well. J/w but what did you hear about em?

Also thanks Flaming I now have a new wish list:
https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/paradise-seeds-durga-mata/prod_1317.html
https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/serious-seeds-white-russian/prod_2462.html
https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/paradise-seeds-wappa-feminized/prod_1335.html
https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/dna-genetics-sharksbreath/prod_2909.html

Oh just noticed you're LSTing Flaming. You might want to add a counter tie so you don't uproot the plant. You don't need it for every branch you LST, just the main stalk.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 5, 2012)

I read that Durga Mata finishes fast. Wappa is listed as a 14 wk mature eeek. 

I had a counter tie put on before I tighted the top down more. Should be fine.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 5, 2012)

Really where'd you read that? It's a 100% indica so that's kind of weird. Never heard of any indicas being more than 10 weeks.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 5, 2012)

on the attitude website wappa says 14+ weeks


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 5, 2012)

We must be looking at two different strains. The one I'm looking at doesn't even say how long.

"Paradise seeds Wappa is a stout-statured and stable Indica variety. Wappa&#8217;s short indoor size makes her a good choice for gardeners with limited room. Her cannabis seeds offer a unique stone offers Indica body relaxation without the couchlock. Paradise seeds Wappa is a robust plant that quickly becomes the darling of the grow room, with her attractive appearance, ease in cultivation and fast yield. When forced to flower at 1 foot (30 cm), she just about doubles in size by maturity, producing big chunky colas that fill the air with sweetness, aromas composed of fruits and sugars. Wappa has a high calyx-to-leaf ratio, which makes her a breeze to manicure. Wappa&#8217;s fruity nugs are great head candy, creating an intense high. The buzz comes on strong, with a pleasant onset. It is a luminous high that nudges open the doors of perception. "

Also http://www.cannabissearch.com/strains/wappa/, http://www.kindgreenbuds.com/marijuana-strains/wappa.html, http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/Wappa/Paradise_Seeds/. All say 55-60 days.

EDIT: Breeder says 55-60 days as well: http://www.paradise-seeds.com/wappa.html


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 5, 2012)

I'm looking at the same page you are. check the thing on the side of the attitude picture. Attitude may have it listed wrong if the breeder says 60 days.


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## Lady.J (Aug 5, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I heard Barney's fem seeds hermied a bit more than usual and I heard Nirvana's auto seeds usually weren't true autos. Besides that I haven't really heard anything bad about em. The Pineapple Chunk(and Pineapple Express) and LSD grows usually turn out pretty nice and there's a Blue Mystic grow that just finished that looks great as well. J/w but what did you hear about em?
> 
> Also thanks Flaming I now have a new wish list:
> https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/paradise-seeds-durga-mata/prod_1317.html
> ...


Numerous things from many people on various grow sites...read everything that I could find first starting out, and read multiple places about low quality of seeds / bud / potency...genetics being unstable in general. If you brag to seasoned growers about having their seeds, you'll get laughed off the thread lol. I guess if you don't really care about quality and just want to grow...they're still better than most bagseed. If I'm going out the way to buy a seed, going to make sure it's at least respected and known for being a good strain by most people...but I'm trying to breed and keep mothers as well so the genetic thing is a bit more important to me. If you google 'bad reviews on Barneys or Nivana' I'm sure you could find quite a bit of reading to explain in detail. I've heard enough bad things where I'd just rather avoid them.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 5, 2012)

I can't say I've done any research really. I guess I'll really know how I feel after Barney's after I grow the Critical Kush and Pineapple Chunk. I guess it does say something that I haven't seen a lot of Barney's grows.

Decided I'm going to harvest the entire plant. The bin has better airflow than my closet and it seems the closet's RH is 56% and temp is at 82. Both which are a bit too high. The bin has much better airflow than the one fan I have going in the closet. Maybe I'll make hash with the popcorn buds *and* the trimmings.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 5, 2012)

Ugh....Started at 5pm, took a 30 minute break...I'm still at it...Got most of it done except what what be considered popcorn buds probably. Actually running out of room in the bin, got enough for one more line.

Would you guys consider what's left popcorn or still a good bit of bud? Anything deemed popcorn will be added to the trimming as is for hash making. Looks like I hit an oz or two easy. Never did buy that scale. I forgot lol.

Btw Lady what gave you the "scare" all of a sudden? Just you giving someone a plant?


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## Lady.J (Aug 5, 2012)

Almost all of that looks like smokeable bud to me . I've been reading a lot about the state laws...it's just not worth possibly getting caught when I only have a year left before being legal! With all the plants I had, can get several years and is def a felony. Don't think it's fair to my fiance either. They won't care if he never grew anything or helped...


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 5, 2012)

True true, well back to trimming...Mixed feelings between absolute boredom and enjoyment.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 5, 2012)

Grow is officially finished! 

No idea on the yield, but I might go and get a scale when they're done drying. Wet weight is unreliable anyway. I know I got *PLENTY* for just myself. The jar is a 2oz jar so I have about a ounce of trim which I will turn into [FONT=verdana, geneva, lucida, lucida grande, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]QWISO. I probably have a good few ounces if I have 1oz of trim. I only put the sugar leaves and popcorn buds in there so it should be some pretty dank stuff. I consider popcorn buds, buds that are possible to smoke, but their size wouldn't be worth the trouble. Basically buds that look like individual calyxes and not a cola.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana, geneva, lucida, lucida grande, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Going to let the girls dry for 4 days. Northern Lights yielded a lot more than the Blue Mammoth and seemed stickier, but the Blue Mammoth had 3 massive colas. Smell was actually about the same, but I had been trimming for...fuck it's 12:30...I've been trimming for about 6 1/2 hours. Anyway I had been trimming the Northern Lights without washing my hands after so I probably just smell a mix of both. Just to clarify I *did* wash my hands before and my tools.

Well in light of how much I have unless the size(not weight) drops significantly after they're dry I *may* postpone growing for a bit. We'll see. Lady got me thinkin about Big Brother and getting caught while going to college would suck beyond words. Like I said we'll see. Not worried about them tracking my RIU account or tapping my phone(prepaid anyway), but I gotta think about my priorities ya know.

But right now I plan on growing Critical Kush probably next week after I get settled in after my move in...wow 4 days.




[/FONT]


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## AP2K (Aug 5, 2012)

Nice haul buddy. Congrats


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 6, 2012)

Thanks man, only wish these "auto flowers" didn't take 96 days. 12/12 from seed 4lyfe


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## Lady.J (Aug 6, 2012)

Nice harvest Cloudz . I bet it feels good to know you'll be smoking good!!

It really would suck if you got caught at college...the consequences are so bad where we're at that even one plant can put you in jail . I guess it all comes down to whether or not you feel careful enough to be able to risk it!


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 6, 2012)

Thanks, not sure how smoked all the microwave bud. My taste horrible.

Jail *and* I'd lose any eligbility of getting a government loan(and I think scholarships too) for good.

Oh got my QWISO hash evaporating now. Not sure how much I get, but it was enough rubbing alcohol to fill a pyrex baking dish to 3/4 full. The room _*reeks*_ of rubbing alcohol.


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## Lady.J (Aug 6, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Thanks, not sure how smoked all the microwave bud. My taste horrible.
> 
> Jail *and* I'd lose any eligbility of getting a government loan(and I think scholarships too) for good.
> 
> Oh got my QWISO hash evaporating now. Not sure how much I get, but it was enough rubbing alcohol to fill a pyrex baking dish to 3/4 full. The room _*reeks*_ of rubbing alcohol.


Mine wasn't all microwaved...but I've been smokin' schwag for so long that the microwaved bud actually tasted better. Especially the Sour Kush.

Make sure you take a pic of the hash! I haven't been brave enough to try to make any yet. Maybe I will try next harvest....


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 6, 2012)

What did you do with your cuttings? Did smoke them _too_?
I'm such an elitest lol. I've never had schawg before and even mids taste nasty to me.


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## Lady.J (Aug 6, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> What did you do with your cuttings? Did smoke them _too_?
> I'm such an elitest lol. I've never had schawg before and even mids taste nasty to me.


My cuttings? Do you mean the trim? I just threw them all away. Wasn't trying to buy even more shit to make hash when I've already spent so much lol.

I wish I could afford to be an elitist...not to mention, the only person I know who sells weed has only schwag. Back home, I had several sources and almost all of the street trees were from dutch commercial growers. I don't go to school on campus either, so my chances for meeting a good connect are slim. The deal breaker is def the 500 bucks required for a good ounce of trees here!


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 6, 2012)

The only thing I had to buy was coffee filters. I had to alcohol and the strainers. I know bubble hash is the best, but when you get to 50%+ thc it really doesn't matter. That and this took like 10 minutes tops to do.
Yea living on/near campus is great because everyone knows someone to buy from or knows someone who does. $500 bucks is a lot, it's only $400 for loud here.


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## Lady.J (Aug 6, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> The only thing I had to buy was coffee filters. I had to alcohol and the strainers. I know bubble hash is the best, but when you get to 50%+ thc it really doesn't matter. That and this took like 10 minutes tops to do.
> Yea living on/near campus is great because everyone knows someone to buy from or knows someone who does. $500 bucks is a lot, it's only $400 for loud here.


You know me...I'm not so keen on the chemical stuff lol. Maybe I will give it a try one day though. It's not like I don't drink the hell out some alcohol every once in a while .

Yea 500 is some BULL...this part of the country makes the least money yet has some ridiculous prices...


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 6, 2012)

Man, $500 for a z?
Great danks around here are $280-$350 a z


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 6, 2012)

Cloudz congrats! Looks great. Grab a small digi scale so you can see just how well ya did, then try to improve it next time.
Give us a smoke report in a couple of weeks when it's had time to cure a little bit


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 7, 2012)

Yea I think my college bookstore sells small scales for the science classes...I think, we'll see. I think instead of new lights I'm going to get a vaporizer. Seems like I really can't use LEDs with the space I have, T5s give off less lumens for less heat and we're going into the fall/winter so I shouldn't have 105F temps for a week straight. Plus I hear vaping saves weed, is much healthier, gets you higher and is a much easier hit than any methods of smoking. Lol oh wow I guess I just sold myself. Probably going to look in the $200 budget range. Few threads I've read say there's really nothing good below $150.

Hash is just about done, guide says let it dry for about 24 hours so I just need about 2-3 more hours.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 7, 2012)

KidneyStoner420 said:


> Man, $500 for a z?
> Great danks around here are $280-$350 a z


You live in a med state? I only buy in the grams for loud, but most states I've been where it's illegal follow the $20/g price.


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## Lady.J (Aug 7, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Yea I think my college bookstore sells small scales for the science classes...I think, we'll see. I think instead of new lights I'm going to get a vaporizer. Seems like I really can't use LEDs with the space I have, T5s give off less lumens for less heat and we're going into the fall/winter so I shouldn't have 105F temps for a week straight. Plus I hear vaping saves weed, is much healthier, gets you higher and is a much easier hit than any methods of smoking. Lol oh wow I guess I just sold myself. Probably going to look in the $200 budget range. Few threads I've read say there's really nothing good below $150.
> 
> Hash is just about done, guide says let it dry for about 24 hours so I just need about 2-3 more hours.


I've been seriously thinking about vapes too! I see them in MMJ documentaries all the time...would love to smoke out of that.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 7, 2012)

Ugh hash is still gummy, having trouble scraping it off the glass...



Lady.J said:


> I've been seriously thinking about vapes too! I see them in MMJ documentaries all the time...would love to smoke out of that.


Yea I've been looking at http://dabuddhavaporizer.com/da-buddha-vaporizer-1/da-buddha-vaporizer.html or http://arizer.com/store/en/extreme-heater/21-aroma-arizer-extreme-q-heater.html. Amazon actually sells DBV for $149 and the EQ for $154.

The Extreme looks like something I could leave on the table and just put some regular herbs in it.


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## Lady.J (Aug 7, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Ugh hash is still gummy, having trouble scraping it off the glass...
> 
> 
> Yea I've been looking at http://dabuddhavaporizer.com/da-buddha-vaporizer-1/da-buddha-vaporizer.html or http://arizer.com/store/en/extreme-heater/21-aroma-arizer-extreme-q-heater.html. Amazon actually sells DBV for $149 and the EQ for $154.
> ...


Nice...I think you made me want one even more lol


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 7, 2012)

Well if you're going to "smoke" so much you might as well do it the healthy way. Youtube reviews on the EQ were pretty cool. The base glows. Probably not a fan of the bag though. I like hookahs though so the whip isn't anything new.

Got so high I passed out(kinda) from 8am-10am I did 5 (what looked like).4-.5g bowls. Also tried a little bit of the hash. Bubbled and melted into the weed which I hear is a good sign. Thinking it's not dry yet which is why it's so sticky and hard to scrape off the glass pan. If this is the consistency it's supposed to be at...fuck this stuff is a pain in the ass to scrape.


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## Lady.J (Aug 7, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Well if you're going to "smoke" so much you might as well do it the healthy way. Youtube reviews on the EQ were pretty cool. The base glows. Probably not a fan of the bag though. I like hookahs though so the whip isn't anything new.
> 
> Got so high I passed out(kinda) from 8am-10am I did 5 (what looked like).4-.5g bowls. Also tried a little bit of the hash. Bubbled and melted into the weed which I hear is a good sign. Thinking it's not dry yet which is why it's so sticky and hard to scrape off the glass pan. If this is the consistency it's supposed to be at...fuck this stuff is a pain in the ass to scrape.


Have you heard of using your trimming for a tincture? If not, I'll post a 'how-to"...going to try that shit for this up coming harvest!


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 7, 2012)

Yea it's hash oil instead of hash(powder). The consistency depends on the purity of your solvent. That and you have to decarb the hash before hand since you're not lighting it, I think.


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## Lady.J (Aug 7, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Yea it's hash oil instead of hash(powder). The consistency depends on the purity of your solvent. That and you have to decarb the hash before hand since you're not lighting it, I think.


What do you mean by decarb? I'm a little bit ignorant of the whole hash process. I have it in a PDF file, so I'll type it out an post it on my thread and we can see if we're talking about the same thing.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 7, 2012)

The THC that gets us high isn't active unless it is heated to a certain temp. When smoking the flame heats the the thc, it it removes the carboxylic group and becomes the active THC we know. When using a tincture or some other method that doesn't involve heating in order to consume the THC the tincture is made of is inactive. Because of that you have to heat the hash before hand.

Very high, but pretty much heat=psychoactive thc

I'm just going to heat my hash because it's too fucking hard to scrape up with a razor. I'll make it an oil and just make it into a ball or something.

EDIT: Worked very well, but it turned from a light tan color to a dark tan color about being melted. _*Looks*_ like I got _maybe_ a gram. Free hash though. Still pretty gooey, so I'm going to let it "bake" in the oven at 190-200F for about 5-10 more minutes. Been doing it at 5 min. intervals and trying to scrape it. Going to just let it melt completely now. Threads I've read that talk about decarbing say 20-30 minutes at 225F. On the bright side if I wanted to(I doubt I will) I could just eat the hash.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 7, 2012)

Finished the scraping, whew! Heated hash at 190-200F to get it to a nice gummy consistency. Allowed me to more easily scrape it off the glass. Still a pain in the ass though. Only blackened when it hardened and dried. The picture of the flat bottom is what it looked like before. Still a good looking tan. Pretty much free hash since I only used popcorn buds and trim. Would be cool to do an entire grow just for hash. I might do BHO if that was the case though.

It's probably decarbed at 190F+ so I imagine I could just melt it and add it to something, but I'm just going to smoke it. Probably by itself. I've had kief before, but I just sprinkle that on top of the bud.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 8, 2012)

Certain people finally paid me back the money they owed me(bout time!). Purchased the Arizer Extreme-Q Vaporizer 4.0 for $151 at http://www.amazon.com/Arizer-Extreme-Q-Vaporizer-Controlled-Quieter/dp/B0036Z5UJC/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top. It was $154 earlier today. At 37% off(actual retail price is $239 not 259) it's a great deal for what reviews say is a mid tier vape. Allows me to use a bag or whip which is pretty cool. Made another email address and got amazon prime for a month for free. Should get the vape on Monday, though amazon/UPS are known for getting stuff to their destination faster than they say.

Gonna let my buds dry out until Friday and then I'll pack em into my 1qt and 2qt jars. 

As far as the hash goes I'm not sure how to smoke full melt besides adding it on top of buds. Full melt hash pretty much as the name implies is hash that melts when heated. Which makes it kind of a pain if it's the only thing in the bowl. Oh cool fact, the smallest micron bags most people use for bubble hash is 25. Coffee filters are usually 20-25 microns. I used two filters and double strained it so I probably got really pure stuff.


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## Lady.J (Aug 8, 2012)

LMAO i'm fuckin jealous!!!!! Of the hash and the vape...


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## Lady.J (Aug 8, 2012)

Just looked at that vape...75 reviews and 5 stars...wow! I think I will be aiming to buy the same one...


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 8, 2012)

There's about 5-6 vendors selling the same thing. They all have 4-5 stars too. I'll never buy from the manufacturer, amazon is always cheaper. Saw a vid of someone smoking FM in a pipe with a metal screen. There's a few threads on GC about people using their Extreme Q to smoke hash...I can't wait


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 8, 2012)

I put one line of buds in a jar today. Most of the buds(all the lines) feel pretty dry on the outside. I figure I'll check the humidity in about 6-8 hours in the jar. If it's 55% I'm golden, if it's 60%+ that means they _do_ need to dry more. If it's under 50% I fucked up and the RH and temp were too high. Just affects the taste/smoke, but I'll be using a vape anyway -P) so I won't be smoking the plant material.

Looks like the acu-rite takes up a good bit of space, but even without it that was only one line of buds...Those were the smaller ones too. The larger sized ones had to be moved because they were pulling the lines down. The pic I took is of the largest branch. It's from the Northern Lights. She looked so pretty when she was still wet  Not sure about the whole "wet grass" smell people keep talking about, but the bud smells...not stinky. Smells pretty much how it did on the first day I hung it up, only not as strong. Not sure how to describe the smell, not anything like grass though.


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## Lady.J (Aug 8, 2012)

Yummy 

They even look like they smell delicious.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 9, 2012)

I hate amazon sometimes. I bought the EQ for $151 and it's $140 now. It's been dropping since I purchased it. Would cancel and get the new price, but it says "preparing to ship...Cancellation is not guaranteed" $11 bucks isn't that big of a difference...I guess


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 9, 2012)

That $11 could've bought you a digi scale


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 9, 2012)

KidneyStoner420 said:


> That $11 could've bought you a digi scale


You're not helping  I just don't want to have it ship despite my cancellation since it's about to ship and me have to pay return shipping. Oh yea I forgot I just got paid, I'll go buy a digi now. Gotta find that link again.

EDIT: Ordered http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380413435792#ht_1145wt_1397. 

Plants are plenty wet still, the jar got up to 67% RH. Probably by next week(when the scale gets here), they'll be dry enough to weigh.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 9, 2012)

Contrary to what you may read, 67% may not be "too wet". Smoke it and see if you like it. If it's a bit too wet, take it down to 65%, and so-on.
I like mine around 65%. No mold either. 60% is too dry/harsh for me, even after a 30+ day cure


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 9, 2012)

Yea I keep reading that 55-65% is the "acceptable range", but some people are saying 45% and even with my limited knowledge seems way to dry. Was aiming for 60% because I like mine a little dry.

Oh since I didn't want to have to make a mess mixing my soil in my bedroom and putting it in a pot I put my soil in a pot and mixed it with 2 tablespoons of lime on the balcony. Then I put plastic wrap(that you use for sealing food?) over the top and taped it up. I'll of course keep the bags, but this makes moving and mixing easier since it's already done.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 9, 2012)

How much do you think curing matters since I'll be vaping? Curing doesn't affect the trichomes just the actual plant matter right?

Oh yea Kidney when you say you like 65% RH do you mean that's when you like to start curing or that's the RH you like for your buds.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 9, 2012)

That's the RH humidity I normally like for my buds, but it depends on how dense they are and what-not. 65% usuakky will have a very slight crisp to the outside, but kinda fluffy inside.
Def try a little bud at 65% and see how you like how it smokes. I'd hate to see you cure it past your liking. Then it's too late
Not sure about vaping vs. curing. That's a good question.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 9, 2012)

Took down the branches hanging, cut them up into nug sizes and jarred them. Going to leave the jars open for the night and close them for the move. When I was trying to balance all the lines I ended up moving a Blue Mammoth top to one of the first two lines. Since they've shrunk and all the hairs have turned brown I don't know which one it was. So take that into account when you look at the larger jar, it has an extra branch in there. That and the larger jar is 2 quarts while the smaller one is 1qt.

Packed up my stuff for tomorrow. One of the benefits to growing in a storage bin.

Fuckin Extreme Q was at $139 for few hours. Back to 140.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 10, 2012)

Moved to my new place. Jars have been sitting for about 9-10 hours now and read 73F with 57% humidity. Really not sure about growing here...Among the packets of paper of I got of course a "Drug free campus policy" one was included. In my state anything more than an ounce is considered a felony while cultivation is also a felony, not including the fact that I'm within 100 yards of a school. Here's the important part though:

"Disciplinary sanctions for students convicted of a felony offense involving the manufacture(it's a plant, call it cultivation), distributions, sale, possession or use of marijuana or other controlled/illegal sustances, shall include the forfeiture of academic credit and the temporary or permanent suspension or expulsion from the institution." 

I've got what looks like an ounce on hand(scale gets here monday) so I'm already in felony territory. While I don't expect to be caught(god forbid) in the horrible event that I do "shit hitting the fan" wouldn't even begin to describe how bad it would be. Enough of the sad stuff though.

Smell Report: Northern Lights smells very weedish, but also almost like rotten fruit. Not something I'd want my room to smell like, but it doesn't stink per se. Almost like rotten banana. Blue Mammoth on the other hand...The girl REEKs. Smells a lot like bad cheese. Doesn't smell good in any way, very funky. Love the smell of it since it's cannabis, but leave the jar open for an hour and the room smells very strongly.

Fuck amazon(EQ is $139). EQ should be arriving on monday along with the scale. If I do decide to grow, it's a very tough decision, I'll purchase and set up all my stuff next week. Decided I'm going to stick with the pot as opposed to the bed simply because the stores I went to didn't have one I liked and I didn't want to order one since I couldn't see how large it is.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 10, 2012)

Yeah, better not to get caught and lose academic prospects. Wait till you get your own place?


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 10, 2012)

That's probably the best decision, but doesn't address the issue of what I'll do when I run out of my current stash. Growing is so much more cost efficient than buying. An 8th is 65-70 bucks here. I hear you can make budder out of vaped hash and it will be some pretty potent stuff, but it's only delaying the inevitable.

One of my friends is a dealer. Maybe I'll look into growing at his place, have him give me some start up money and do a larger grow for 50/50 or w/e. I stop by and do my gardening stuff and that's it. He lives there and his name is on the lease in case anything happens.


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## Lady.J (Aug 10, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> That's probably the best decision, but doesn't address the issue of what I'll do when I run out of my current stash. Growing is so much more cost efficient than buying. An 8th is 65-70 bucks here. I hear you can make budder out of vaped hash and it will be some pretty potent stuff, but it's only delaying the inevitable.
> 
> One of my friends is a dealer. Maybe I'll look into growing at his place, have him give me some start up money and do a larger grow for 50/50 or w/e. I stop by and do my gardening stuff and that's it. He lives there and his name is on the lease in case anything happens.


Be careful...adds a lot more risk when you grow with a partner. You have to deal with all the attention and carelessness they might bring to the table as well. If they get caught up, it will be extra incentive to roll on you so that they get less charges / time.

I know you thought about this, but just thought I'd remind you! I hate to hear about people going down for weed...it's major B.S.!!!


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 10, 2012)

Just make sure you only take 1/2 oz from him at a time?


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 10, 2012)

I should probably talk to the people in the law part of RIU, but what could he say about me? He's a fairly large dealer, in that he supplies 3/4 of the weed people smoke of campus. Unless I was somehow caught in the act of tending to the plants, but even then I'm not sure what they could charge me with.

He seems like a cool guy as far as dealers go, but I have thought a lot about what if he rolls on me or decides it's 0/100. I'm kinda fucked in those cases.
On the other hand, if this worked out I've got a secure place to grow to my hearts content and without investing a shit ton of money. When we talked about me going gorilla he said pretty much told me anything I needed to buy he'd buy it. I'm sorta like the black guy on weeds...except my drug dealer isn't a white suburban mom, it's a big black guy.

We'll see, I'm not exactly thrilled about my options.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19609_5-horrible-things-nobody-tells-you-about-legally-growing-pot.html


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## Lady.J (Aug 10, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> I should probably talk to the people in the law part of RIU, but what could he say about me? He's a fairly large dealer, in that he supplies 3/4 of the weed people smoke of campus. Unless I was somehow caught in the act of tending to the plants, but even then I'm not sure what they could charge me with.
> 
> He seems like a cool guy as far as dealers go, but I have thought a lot about what if he rolls on me or decides it's 0/100. I'm kinda fucked in those cases.
> On the other hand, if this worked out I've got a secure place to grow to my hearts content and without investing a shit ton of money. When we talked about me going gorilla he said pretty much told me anything I needed to buy he'd buy it. I'm sorta like the black guy on weeds...except my drug dealer isn't a white suburban mom, it's a big black guy.
> ...


Yea, def post in the law section, might be surprised what you find out. I finally worked up the courage to look and now I'm disheartened about growing .

As for not knowing what he could say about you...if your dealer got caught, he could get less time if he offers you up and tells about how you grow at his house...his house is def getting searched if he gets caught with weed and he's not going to want to take all that blame!

Want to know some bullshit? These dudes got pulled over during a traffic stop and the cop noticed ten containers (gallon sized) of chemical nutes in the back seat. That alone was enough to get a warrant to search their place...where the cops found 225 plants. I believe this was in Texas. Maybe it was dumb not to have the stuff in the trunk, but it's crazy they can go to your home off of something like that. Good thing we're organic...lol. Not as suspicious maybe?

Anyway, if you were to get caught 'tending' plants at the dealer's house, you can still get hit with cultivation (you don't have to live there) or at the least, conspiracy. People get smacked with charges for wrong place, wrong time, even when they're innocent. My sis almost got a theft charge pinned on her when her dumbass friend decided to steal shit from the store on the low...they assumed my sis was in on it just because she came in the store with her! They don't give a fuck...more money for the state and more arrest quota for coppers.

It would be sweet if everything DID work out and no one found out, everything went smooth...that's the thing about what we do...all comes down to what side you're willing to gamble on.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 10, 2012)

Ah ok didn't know if they could hit me with cultivation if they aren't my plants. Assumed the owner of the residence would be held accountable for anything at his place. I think at the very least I'll have a talk with him about what exactly he will cover as far as expenses and space. He's gorilla growing 20 plants he intends to make mids out of, but he's never grown before. Cultivation gets me 2-15 years I think. The laws on a stupid plant are so outrageous.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 11, 2012)

Made a thread: https://www.rollitup.org/legal-edge/553035-getting-parter-i-know-i.html#post7846102. We'll see what those guys say.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 12, 2012)

Damn these girls are stinky. I just opened the jar about 5 minutes ago and my room completely smells. Had the jars closed all day and the RH has been 57%. Got a friend to tell me what it smelled like and she said fried chicken...Not so sure about that. I'm having a little tasting party with a few friends and the new vape. Hopefully they can tell me their opinions on the smoke/smell because I can't really find a good way to describe it besides stinky. 

Still haven't finished the sample I took. I have about 1/2 left. Not sure if it's a coincidence or me smoking 5-6 bowls a day(I usually smoke 2-3), but I have had a sore throat today. Haven't actually tried the properly dried weed and I plan to let it cure(until I run out of the sample), but if the potency is any higher than the sample(which it should be right?) "smoking" with the vape is gonna be crazy.

Decided not to go with getting a partner. Just way to many risks just to grow. I gotta get my own place/move to a legal state. Always liked snowboarding so many Colorado. So damn far from the "south" though.

Man this stuff is so stinky lol.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 12, 2012)

57% is pretty low!


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 12, 2012)

Colorado. Just think... low ambient temperatures...


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 12, 2012)

KidneyStoner420 said:


> 57% is pretty low!


Yea I know. Odd thing I didn't dry for that long, only 4 days. Didn't have temps that high either. I try to open the jar for a 1-2 hours every day. Their smell has changed for sure from when it was harvested. Figure since I'll be vaping it won't really matter either way. Ambient temps have been 74-75F, RH outside the jars is 59-60%



Flaming Pie said:


> Colorado. Just think... low ambient temperatures...


I'll probably be snow boarding more than growing lol. Really depends where you live anyway. During the spring/summer it gets pretty damn hot where my friend lives. 100F+, she lives in the desert though. I'll probably move after I finish getting my BA, switching to an out of state college mid degree just seems like a pain in the ass.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 13, 2012)

You can grow and snowboard.. >

My plants take like a half hour of my day now.. The rest is on xbox lol. One week till work starts up and then I will be busy busy.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 13, 2012)

Alright just weighed the plants.

Blue Mammoth=27g
Northern Lights 43g

Knew the NL was going to be a lot more bud I didn't think it would be 16 grams more. I've pretty much de-stemmed all the buds. 43+27=70 which is just under 2 1/2 ounces. This isn't including the "sample" buds I took 2 weeks from harvest and the ones I took the day of harvest. So probably 80g. My hands feel like I have glue of em lol.

Great yield either way for 8" pots.

Tbh the scale was very small(size of a large smart phone). Actual scale is maybe 2-3" wide, 1 1/2" long.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 13, 2012)

Is that dry weight? I heard that buds can lose 60% of their weight after drying.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 13, 2012)

Yep that's dry weight. I'm 4 days into curing with 57% RH in the jars.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 13, 2012)

Just got my Extreme Q, letting it burn off the manufacture oils. Man does it smell like burning plastic. Going to let it go for a little while like people recommend. Despite my sore throat I will most def be smoking some of the dried/cured herb in this baby. Pics will be taken(of the vape) of course.


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## Lady.J (Aug 13, 2012)

I can't wait to hear how you think it smokes!!!!


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 13, 2012)

Omg...High is awesome...I will never smoke again...Barely used any weed I normally would to get this high. Maybe 3 bowls worth? Used like half a bowl. Hit quick too. Very overpowering, it's like my first time smoking. I see colors. Smoked the sample btw. Saving the good stuff for me and a few friends tonight 

As of right now, for the sample, taste could use some work, taste kind of like stale air. 8.5/10. You gotta buy one Lady.


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## Lady.J (Aug 13, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Omg...High is awesome...I will never smoke again...Barely used any weed I normally would to get this high. Maybe 3 bowls worth? Used like half a bowl. Hit quick too. Very overpowering, it's like my first time smoking. I see colors. Smoked the sample btw. Saving the good stuff for me and a few friends tonight
> 
> As of right now, for the sample, taste could use some work, taste kind of like stale air. 8.5/10. You gotta buy one Lady.


Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn!!!

Did you cough much? Did it burn on inhale, exhale, or neither? Is it the hash you're smoking tonight? DAMN! lol. I can't wait to buy...


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 13, 2012)

I wanna see some pics! Do you exhale any actual smoke? Vaporizers vary.
I have a mini vape on it's way to my door as we speak.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 13, 2012)

No it's the sample buds I took the day of harvest. I have a sore throat so I am coughing a little bit. I'm not coughing due to the vape or anything, if anything it feels like I'm just sucking air out of a tube. I have to exhale to actually know I"m getting something. Which is why I pulled on it so much.

Looks like smoke, taste like warm air.


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## Lady.J (Aug 13, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> No it's the sample buds I took the day of harvest. I have a sore throat so I am coughing a little bit. I'm not coughing due to the vape or anything, if anything it feels like I'm just sucking air out of a tube. I have to exhale to actually know I"m getting something. Which is why I pulled on it so much.
> 
> Looks like smoke, taste like warm air.


So a lot similar to a hookah huh? My throat hurts a lot if I smoke too much all of a sudden too lol. The vape will help with that! So do the trees hit you on the exhale, or can you feel yourself getting high as soon as you inhale? I know I am asking tedious questions lol....you have me so interested!


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 13, 2012)

Yea, reminds me of a hookah, except I don't need to pull nearly as hard and if I really wanted to I could turn the fan on and have it blow out without me pulling on it. It actually was more of all of a sudden like a wave of being really high hit me. I'd say it took a good good 5-6 minutes. I don't mind answering any questions, everyone should have one lol. Roommate told me it smells like weed though. I'm entirely too baked to notice though. Was expecting burnt popcorn, but meh.

One thing you should know that even though it feels like plastic the glass pieces get *very* hot. We're still talkin 300F+


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## Lady.J (Aug 13, 2012)

I think I saw people on the Amazon reviews mentioning that it gets very hot too. How many hits were you able to get out of the bag using only half a bowl?


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 13, 2012)

KidneyStoner420 said:


> I wanna see some pics! Do you exhale any actual smoke? Vaporizers vary.
> I have a mini vape on it's way to my door as we speak.


Here ya go! Which one are you getting kidney?


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 13, 2012)

Used the whip not the bag. About 6-8 long LONG drags. 10-15 second long drags. Still getting good hits too, finally started to taste like weed. Not sure if that means it's getting into the buds finally or if it was about to be done, but I had a good few hits left.


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## Lady.J (Aug 13, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Used the whip not the bag. About 6-8 long LONG drags. 10-15 second long drags. Still getting good hits too, finally started to taste like weed. Not sure if that means it's getting into the buds finally or if it was about to be done, but I had a good few hits left.


Thanks for the pics! So exactly which part gets hot...just the part below the chamber for the weed, or does the part above the weed get hot too?


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 13, 2012)

Anything glass gets hot. So the place that holds the weed, except for the black part(where you're supposed to hold it) as well as the elbow piece. The mouth piece and the tube don't actually get hot, not even warm.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 13, 2012)

I bought the generic version of the MFLB.
I bought this one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-DRAGON-FLIGHT-LITE-PORTABLE-HERBAL-VAPORIZER-WORKS-LIKE-MAGIC-/120936561080?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c286179b8
I go to A LOT of concerts and ball games. Can't wait to try it out.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 13, 2012)

Alright two of my friends are telling me it taste like Catfish and tilapia. Not sure if I smell something so specific, but I guess I could taste something a little fishy. Vape is awesome, I don't have to worry about irritating my thoat and the vape actually "numbs" the pain.


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## Lady.J (Aug 13, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Alright two of my friends are telling me it taste like Catfish and tilapia. Not sure if I smell something so specific, but I guess I could taste something a little fishy. Vape is awesome, I don't have to worry about irritating my thoat and the vape actually "numbs" the pain.


This was the sample that wasn't dried / cured right? LOL catfish....that's interesting about the vape taking away the pain from your throat. You are killing me with this...I have to have it lol


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 13, 2012)

Nope, I microwaved it right after cutting it. Just tried the cured stuff... Uh...So...High...uh...it's great...no burn what so ever...Didn't cough once. Very much like a hookah. Needs to warm up a bit to start producing good vapor.

_It's _ not so much the vape taking the pain away as it is the weed, but when I smoked the smoke made my throat drier and making me cough more. So just getting rid of the smoke helped. I'm so high lol. Not sure how I'm going to smoke the hash.

EDIT: sorry the stuff my friends tried was the dried/cured stuff.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 14, 2012)

KidneyStoner420 said:


> I bought the generic version of the MFLB.
> I bought this one.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-DRAGON-FLIGHT-LITE-PORTABLE-HERBAL-VAPORIZER-WORKS-LIKE-MAGIC-/120936561080?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c286179b8
> I go to A LOT of concerts and ball games. Can't wait to try it out.


Keep in mind it still smells like weed. I've been reading that it only smells like popcorn when you turn the temp up high like 500F+. Highest you usually wanna vape at is 400F. I set mine to 380.


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## Lady.J (Aug 14, 2012)

DST said:


> oh, and btw, this hippy told us yesterday that THC, CBD, etc, starts to burn at 157f. (so if you have a vape seemingly to get the cleanest thc hit from it, you set it to that). Then 185 to get more of a smoke filled vape....


Just saw this in another thread...what do you think? Matter fact, try it then tell me what you think . And yes, I'm just trying to get you to smoke more . I am living vicariously through you right now...


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 14, 2012)

140-150F is the temp people usually cook at. While I'm sure it will work, all the reviews and "tips about vapes" threads I've seen say 350-400F is the best temp.


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## Lady.J (Aug 14, 2012)

Will you be my guinea pig and try a little at those lower temps for me? lol! I'm curious...and know you would give a good analysis!


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 14, 2012)

Weed that taste like fish? EWWWW.. no offense, but I would not toke even if you offered.. you are welcome to toke mine tho. =)


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 14, 2012)

damn 70grams dried? nice!


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 14, 2012)

Lady.J said:


> Will you be my guinea pig and try a little at those lower temps for me? lol! I'm curious...and know you would give a good analysis!


Are you sure it wasn't Celsius? I tried 140-160F, very very little vapor and I had to pull harder to get it. Didn't really get that high. Not anywhere near 370F+ at least.


Flaming Pie said:


> Weed that taste like fish? EWWWW.. no offense, but I would not toke even if you offered.. you are welcome to toke mine tho. =)


You obviously don't live in the south United states. Fish tastes amazing here. I'm not sure about the taste really, I don't taste fish *that* much. I know it smells like bomb ass shit when it's freshly ground up.


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## Lady.J (Aug 14, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Are you sure it wasn't Celsius? I tried 140-160F, very very little vapor and I had to pull harder to get it. Didn't really get that high. Not anywhere near 370F+ at least.
> 
> You obviously don't live in the south United states. Fish tastes amazing here. I'm not sure about the taste really, I don't taste fish *that* much. I know it smells like bomb ass shit when it's freshly ground up.


 it probably was celsius

I think you tasted the fish because your friends were high, trippin' and convinced you that you could taste it lol.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 14, 2012)

I have had cod and tilapia. Soaked that shit in milk for 2 hours and it STILL tasted so damn fishy! My grandpa loved it tho. lol


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 14, 2012)

I will tell u something tho.. The whole day after I mix up some fish fert, my piss smell like fish. Fucking nasty. I need to buy gloves. I think my skin absorbed it or somethin.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 14, 2012)

Yea, you need to wash your hands pretty well. Washed my gallon jug 2-3 times and I can still smell a little of the fish. 

But seriously, yall need to get a vape. Take some loans out of if you have to.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 15, 2012)

only thing I use the fish fert for now is the outdoor NL#2.. and it attracted SOOOOOO many gnats.. I doubt I will even want to bring this one inside... maybe ill just let it flower out there.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 15, 2012)

I can't stand pests, that's why I like indoors. Total control. You gotta use a cold pressed fish blend. Fish emulsion will always attract gnats and the like. And emulsion stinks.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 15, 2012)

Well I am gonna spray them again tonight after sundown. FUCK YOU GNATS!


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 15, 2012)

Fungus gnats? 
I've literally had them for 2 years.
I pretty much see 1 every 3 days or so, but I was never able to totally get rid of those fuckers. Good luck.
Originally, I WATERED the plants with neem oil/water after they were good and dry. After a few treatments they diminished quite a bit, but never got any better. They live in the soil, so i never really understood why people spray with neem for fungus gnats.
The Hot Shot pest strip seemed to help quite a bit. as I mentioned earlier, I only see 1 gnat every 3 days ago (in the whole house, not just the closet). I originally bought the strip for spider mites, and they totally got rid of every damn mite in 2 days.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 15, 2012)

I sprayed the soil top. And I have NO gnats inside the house. When I lived in the southern states they were a pain tho.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 15, 2012)

They live about 1-2 inches below the soil. Let it dry out real good, that will kill some. Then water real good with a neem/water mix. For extra insurance, you could add some sand to the top as well.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 15, 2012)

Well fuck it. lol I may just scrap NL#2. Not bringing those bastards inside.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 15, 2012)

topped my clone today


 kitty snatched that leaf and ran. no lie.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 16, 2012)

Looks good, gonna put it with your other plants or do you have a place for clones?


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 16, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Looks good, gonna put it with your other plants or do you have a place for clones?


I have a place for her until she is about 3 weeks old. Then I will buy a T-5 light and stick her in a closet. She wont be downstairs until NL#1 finishes flowering in 6 weeks.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 17, 2012)

Well not sure what's wrong with my at this point. Not sure if I'm sick or allergies, but I've pretty much lost my voice >.<. Taking claritin and vitamins/cold medicine/etc, but I've been getting worse. I *was* going to smoke the hash today and give a smoke report...but I think I'm gonna chill on the vaping/smoking thing for a little bit.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 17, 2012)

That sucks, cloud. Hope you feel better soon. (have you been sharing your vape/pipes with anyone? because if they were just getting over strep throat...)


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 17, 2012)

I have, but I got my vape on monday. I've been getting sick(er) since friday night. I don't have any fever or any signs of a cold. The only reasons I don't think it's allergies is just because I can't remember getting them in late summer/fall. Lots of flowers and trees and stuff around campus though. Allergy medicine really never helped me anyway.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 17, 2012)

lots of water and rest. =)


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 17, 2012)

Yep that's the plan. Oh 3 people(besides myself) have tried my weed. They all say it was the greatest shit they've ever had. Not sure if that's because of the vape or because of the actual weed, but it's pretty awesome. These are pot heads were talkin about so they smoke a good bit. This one girl who says it smells like catfish keeps telling the other people who smoke it smells like catfish. If you know anything about psychology, they probably only think it smells that way because she says it does. Before she says anything they don't notice/can't place the smell.


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## kuskus (Aug 18, 2012)

Hey man cool diary, i am doing research about CFLs and autos.. Anyway i am not sure if anyone has told you this yet, so i apologize if they did, but i just wanted to say something about your plants taking so long to finish. Basically i have read in a few places that it is a big mistake to flower autos under 12/12 and most experienced auto growers use 20/4 or even 23/1.
I think that may be why your plants took so long to finish.

Anyway you still got some nice smoke from it so that's all that matters


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 18, 2012)

The issue with my plants, and you'll find this somewhere in the thread around week 7, is that they showed now preflowers at week 7. I think I made the actual switch to 12/12 at the start of week 8. One week later they started flowering. I had them on 20/4 until then. There's also been several reports of the Blue Mammoth now being an auto. I also emailed WoS about my problem, no help on that end.

This is why I'm just going to go 12/12 from seed from now on and not bother with autos because of the chance(regardless of how small it is) not to auto and leave me vegging for 7-8 weeks before I realize they aren't flowering.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 18, 2012)

Hey cloud.. killed my NL#2. that bitch had NO root system.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 18, 2012)

Flaming Pie said:


> Hey cloud.. killed my NL#2. that bitch had NO root system.


Aw that sucks. Any thoughts on why? The NL#1 looks really nice though.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 18, 2012)

Hmm...I'm really thinking about growing...It's not the fact that at this rate I can see myself smoking my stash in a month or two, but that I like growing and being able to get high off the stuff I grew is a pretty awesome feeling. It's kind of the same feeling with vegetables, but food is food. Getting high is something entirely different. I figure I stack the bins instead of balancing them, get my smell on lockdown from the start and I should be pretty good. There's always gonna be that risk, but I mean...If I have a pipe, 2oz of weed and a vape why not grow 1 plant. Hell, I might even through in some mint in the bin.

Funny thing is I used the bins to pack my stuff...When I put one in in the other while moving...They got stuck together. Tried pulling it apart and I broke some of the plastic off >.< Another trial begins...


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 18, 2012)

Cloudz2600 said:


> Aw that sucks. Any thoughts on why? The NL#1 looks really nice though.


I think the high humidity was keeping the soil wet longer....I also kept dumping extra nute water in it when I was serving N#1 and clone. So I prob was drowning roots. 

Root ball was like 3 inches square. I shit you not. The plant was a foot and a half tall! I guess it is possible to grow tall plants in cups lol.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 18, 2012)

If you wanna keep growing, just grow some northern lights. My plant downstairs has NO smell unless i'm touching it, and then it is only on my fingers. It smells like lemon pine.

Grow in your closet and get some super stealthy quiet fans. Goodluck.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 18, 2012)

Also run a fan in your bedroom all the time that is noisy. Then people won't hear the other fan. =) Run your lights during day and keep em off at night so if you entertain a lady, she wont be asking about the light in the closet.

Could get a mother keeper tent to seal up light leaks. Or just improve your current system.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 18, 2012)

There's a LED party cup thread somewhere in the LED section. Some pretty nice grows with some very nice lights.

I do want another go at the Northern Lights x Big Bud, but 1 non-auto and one no show...eh not so sure. Only 2 non-autos I have are Pineapple Chunk, which I hear is a pain to grow, and Critical Kush. Both by Barney's. Autos I have left are, 1 NLxBB, 1 La Diva and 1 Afghan Kush Ryder. Seen nothing but praise from AKR and La Diva and based on of WoS' customer service I'm leaning towards La Diva. I really don't want to be vegging for 7 weeks though...This incident has scarred me lol.

Tents aren't stealthy. Unless there's a tent around 3'. Otherwise it's a big large, black box that stands out. 

Gonna be running 12/12 from seed so lights on during the daylight won't be too hard. Those PC fans are about 60 CFM and under 30db so it's pretty quiet. My laptop fan is actually louder lol. It's 3 years old though. I do have another desk fan that I can use if need be though.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 18, 2012)

I wish you the best! I might get a tent for my upstairs closet. Not sure yet. Definitely getting a new light when the clone outgrows her little tent. 

She has some spotting on her leaves after being topped. Was healthy before, so I think it was her stressing out. Her node branches are growing fast now. =)


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 18, 2012)

just go with a different breeder. try one of the more reputable?


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 18, 2012)

Or you could go with Ministry of cannabis and get one good plant and one retard stink plant. lol


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 18, 2012)

Well, World of Seeds is a pretty reputable breeder. They make AKR as well. MoC is just a seed bank right? Not that I'm really interested in buying more seeds since I still have all but 4 from the stuff I bought on 4/20. What's the point of sales/freebies if you don't use em?


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 18, 2012)

yah, just making convo. 

Was joking about the ministry tho. I got a good seed that is low smell and responds well to supercropping. Lucky. I could of gotten two crap seeds that stink and take forever to germ.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 18, 2012)

ona block if you have a stinky one. I still have my white sharkxmazar seed. Not gonna start that for a while.


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 18, 2012)

Yea, I think I heard one of those strains was pretty stinky. Forget what White Shark was crossed with. ONA gel seems like a way to do it if a carbon filter isn't an option. Just not sure about size of the container per size of the grow space. Those car fresheners worked pretty well until the final 2 weeks.

Heard a lot of good thing about Delicious Seeds and La Diva. Probably a toss up between that and Critical Kush. 15% THC(diva) vs. 25%(Kush).


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 18, 2012)

fan blowing the smell over the ona block. Thats what i heard.


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 19, 2012)

the Ona blocks only last a week or 2. Trust me, I tried them before going with a carbon filter.
However, I can't vouch for the gel. Never tried it


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 19, 2012)

Well if he cant fit a carbon filter he can just buy 4 ona blocks?


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## KidneyStoner420 (Aug 19, 2012)

Yeah I guess. 4 ona block used 1 at a time will last 6-8 weeks or so.
I'm telling you, they don't work so good.


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## Flaming Pie (Aug 19, 2012)

I am glad I dont have a stinky strain then.. And if worst comes to worst, I have


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 19, 2012)

Just for conversation's sake what size are we talking about here?


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## Cloudz2600 (Aug 19, 2012)

Again money not being an issue, but space/stealth is. Any opinions of this:http://www.amazon.com/Ona-Breeze-Dispenser-35-CFM/dp/B002JUTO2E/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1345396144&sr=8-4&keywords=ona+gel vs. a regular fan? Looks like you can only use with the 1gal container(gel or block?), but it says covers 1500 square feet, which is much more room than I need. Oh there's a link somewhere in my thread about some stuff GE makes I think. It's a plug in carbon filter. Runs like $18 and uses 3 filters at once.


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## brettsog (Aug 22, 2012)

nice to see you finished man. got a decent harvest as well. good to see your avoiding smoking. if i wasnt so hooked on nicotine i would stop rolling joints but i tried just using a bong for a few days and i got proper ratty with everyone so i went back to basics lol

good looking out man.


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## eroche17 (Oct 8, 2012)

Hey man I missed out on your grow when you were doing it, but ive been reading up on it a lot, Im growing 9 Northern Lights x Big Bud auto plants right now in DWC though, im hoping my plants get around the yield yours did, but well see, yours were autoflowering too right?This is my second grow as well.
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/569563-wos-northern-lights-x-big.html


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