# Male-Plants "breeders never give up a male"



## GuduflMS (Dec 8, 2010)

[FONT=&quot]Can anybody shed some informed light on this statement? 
Why "breeders never give up a male". 
I have found this mentioned a few times and have not understood it fully and have not found a satisfactory explanation. It would also be of interest on how the experienced breeders are able to keep a male plant for more than 20years. The only way I can figure this to work is by growing cuttings from the original plant, but with most other herbs you only need to take cuttings about every 9 years to prevent the plant from degrading. If not the herb produces an inferior volatile oil and begins to become less potent chemically speaking[/FONT]


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## pitbudz87 (Dec 8, 2010)

very good question im lookin foward to the awnser to this one myself + rep


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## homebrewer (Dec 8, 2010)

Adam from THseeds has a few vids on youtube where he talks about how important a 'stud' is. Under normal and stress-free growing conditions, clones and be taken from one another for years and years with no degradation whatsoever. I currently am growing a 25 year old clone-only strain and it's still kickin' like bruce with a potency and duration that would rival anything from seed.

EDIT: Links below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl9yMvbkPRA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvnmN0ahkno


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## Nice Ol Bud (Dec 8, 2010)

Welcome to RIU!!!


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## haloman420 (Dec 8, 2010)

Keep males means more seeds to sell.


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## GuduflMS (Dec 9, 2010)

Homebrewer thanks for the links and info. I have just recently cloned (cutting) a male whose effects on a specific female is still in the "testtube". Fortunatly I have the space to keep both males and females and can targate pollinate to my hearts contend.
A few days ago I test planted my first 4th generation seed from that strain that I have been breading over the last couple of years. It is a Skunk type female (Jaque2-Name of the seed), of Indica origin crossed with local (Kechla - NigNog - Gardenboy) male, from the Umvoty valley, of Sativa origin, which is well acclimatised to the prevailing conditions here. Once germinated I will know more.

Nice Ol Bud: thanks for the Welcome


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## canefan (Dec 9, 2010)

I have been growing and breeding for years and I don't give up a male until it is ready to pollinate, then decide if he is worthy of having sex with any of my girls. Honestly though I am growing now with 3 different groups, seed from my breeders which are sativa, indica and hybrids. So you obtain your males with this first planting, but you don't know anything about them, meaning how they fully grow out. They might be weak to pests, weather, and disease, so you don't want that back into the gene pool. You only want the very best looking male plant, so by growing them out, cloning them so when that female comes along that deserves to be pollinated you have the right male.
Sorry I'm pretty high and rambling but, the breeders are always looking for a better looking male and I like to keep one of each type of plant so as I grow out new seeds I am looking for the right female to go with the male I have. Sounds kind of backwards but that is the way that has been working for me. Years ago before I was smart enough to clone it was always hard to get the cross I wanted. Now when I start a batch of seeds and want to make seeds, I take a cutting from a mature male about 3 weeks into veg and root him then send him straight to 12/12 and the pollen is ready when the female is ready. I am very small scale and only make 20 to 50 seeds at a time from any one plant, so my male clone can be very small to do what I need.
Good Luck, making seeds can give you many years of enjoyment, save you huge amounts of money and the best part you can make the plant you want most.


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## Pipe Dream (Dec 9, 2010)

^ ye 

It' easy to judge females by the finished product but males are much harder to judge. The only way to see if the male is good is too see what hi offspring produce and often problems might not how up until the offspring produce offspring of their own cuz that's when recessive traits start to show themselves. It' a lot of trial and error and when they find that male and test him out nd he proves worthy you would want to keep that male around for all the breeding rather than use a new untested one. Also I imagine if something happens to a female cut they can go find someone ele who's been growing it and get a cut of the identical plant but how many people are growing males and exchanging clones of them? Not very many. If they lost their male and used a different one than the strain would probably be totally different so they need to keep that male for all future breeding of that particuliar strain or it' back to the selection process all over again.


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## GuduflMS (Dec 10, 2010)

[FONT=&quot]Canefan and Pipe Dream thanks for ur most valuable contribution. 
Of course I did not leave my research to a possible reply to my original post and am now able to contribute some info of my own.
Let me just mention here that I only grow in the open (under the sky) and in soil (in beds and pots). I have been growing for 30 years but only started my breeding program some 4 seasons (3-years) ago when my wife was diagnosed with MS (Multiple Sclerosis) and started to medicate with a tee she prepares and which helps in relieving some of the odd symptoms she experiences due to her MS.

Keeping Male and Female Plants by cloning, any form will do, is imperative to a serious farmer/breeder like you guys mention to ensure a steady supply of your "known" strain of seed and of course with that comes the assurance that one is harvesting a "known" crop.

I found the following Links on this site that I would like to share with anyone that reads this post as I found them very useful. I am just hoping, that ENGLAND123, will not find me doing this, offensive.
[/FONT]https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/357181-sexual-versus-asexual-propagation.html
[FONT=&quot] https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/357185-genetics-breeding-cannabis-advanced-info.html
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/357189-maturation-harvesting-cannabis.html
With the info on this tread now, anyone should be able to figure it out.
Thanks again for all your contributions. 


[/FONT]


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## canefan (Dec 13, 2010)

GuduflMS said:


> [FONT=&quot]Canefan and Pipe Dream thanks for ur most valuable contribution.
> Of course I did not leave my research to a possible reply to my original post and am now able to contribute some info of my own.
> Let me just mention here that I only grow in the open (under the sky) and in soil (in beds and pots). I have been growing for 30 years but only started my breeding program some 4 seasons (3-years) ago when my wife was diagnosed with MS (Multiple Sclerosis) and started to medicate with a tee she prepares and which helps in relieving some of the odd symptoms she experiences due to her MS.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the links, always wanting to add to my library for futher research. I am truly sorry to hear about your wife and hope that all goes well especially with the new treatments which are becoming available. Now if we could get all governments to allow us to use this useful herb in more medical treatments we all would be better off.
Merry Christmas to all


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## canecorso505 (Dec 15, 2010)

is it true that the longer a male takes to reveal his sex the better?


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## canefan (Dec 17, 2010)

I don't know about showing or not, some strains seem to sex earlier than others. My line of reasoning is if you are wanting shorter flowering times you would want a male which goes through his cycle quickly and vice versa. I grow mostly sativas and I tend to select the males with the longer cycle. This is just my opinion and don't have a source to quote or anything the way I select.
Happy Growing and Merry Christmas


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## *BUDS (Dec 17, 2010)

GuduflMS said:


> [FONT=&quot]Can anybody shed some informed light on this statement?
> Why "breeders never give up a male".
> I have found this mentioned a few times and have not understood it fully and have not found a satisfactory explanation. It would also be of interest on how the experienced breeders are able to keep a male plant for more than 20years. The only way I can figure this to work is by growing cuttings from the original plant, but with most other herbs you only need to take cuttings about every 9 years to prevent the plant from degrading. If not the herb produces an inferior volatile oil and begins to become less potent chemically speaking[/FONT]


dont think they keep males alive for 2o years. they keep the pollen preserved. clones do not become less potent,they are a snapshot of the orig host mother at the time u took cutting. strains started from seed can degrade with repeated breeding.


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## Countrybuddin (Aug 8, 2017)

Great stud


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## too larry (Aug 19, 2017)

I didn't read every post, but if you are asking how to keep a plant, {a male in this case} alive for many years so the seeds from the cross is always the same genetics, I'll try to answer. You take a cut of the chosen plant, then veg it out. A few weeks later, you take a cut from that cut, and veg it out. Then a few weeks later you take a cut of that cut and veg it out. Etc. etc. etc.

When breeders lose their mother and father plants, the true strain is gone. Many carry on by popping lots of seeds and searching for the phenos of the original, but it's not the same.


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## too larry (Aug 19, 2017)

Damn it. Old thread got me again.


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## Houstini (Sep 2, 2017)

Me too, we need a breeders section in this forum


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## Lucky Luke (Sep 3, 2017)

Houstini said:


> Me too, we need a breeders section in this forum


https://www.rollitup.org/f/breeders-paradise.94/


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## too larry (Sep 3, 2017)

Houstini said:


> Me too, we need a breeders section in this forum


That is a great idea.


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## TheChemist77 (Sep 3, 2017)

i would like to know more about choosing a male..they have balls not buds,, so do you go by how many balls,, lots of balls in a cluster = like a female w/ lots buds?? i look at the overall structure of males, if its branchy, not too stretchy, then smell but its hard to determine much by smell.. how quickly it shows sex, and how fast it produces pollen after 12/12,, i guess that would say its offspring would flower quickly... so how do you choose THE WRIGHT MALE???


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## too larry (Sep 3, 2017)

TheChemist77 said:


> i would like to know more about choosing a male..they have balls not buds,, so do you go by how many balls,, lots of balls in a cluster = like a female w/ lots buds?? i look at the overall structure of males, if its branchy, not too stretchy, then smell but its hard to determine much by smell.. how quickly it shows sex, and how fast it produces pollen after 12/12,, i guess that would say its offspring would flower quickly... so how do you choose THE WRIGHT MALE???


Stem rub for smell. {use separate hands for different plants} Like you mentioned, structure as well as how vigorous the growth is. Over all health of the plant. If it is a tossup between two males, I will go with the last one to show sex.


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## Lucky Luke (Sep 3, 2017)

TheChemist77 said:


> i would like to know more about choosing a male..they have balls not buds,, so do you go by how many balls,, lots of balls in a cluster = like a female w/ lots buds?? i look at the overall structure of males, if its branchy, not too stretchy, then smell but its hard to determine much by smell.. how quickly it shows sex, and how fast it produces pollen after 12/12,, i guess that would say its offspring would flower quickly... so how do you choose THE WRIGHT MALE???





Lucky Luke said:


> https://www.rollitup.org/f/breeders-paradise.94/


Subcool goes through this in the above link. In the breeders section..https://www.rollitup.org/t/subcools-breeding-better-cannabis.48785/


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## TheChemist77 (Sep 4, 2017)

thanks,,, here is what i find very interesting..




At time of germination are there any capitate trichomes on the cotyledon leaves? The number and frequency of non-glandular trichomes; this can be a great indicator of future glandular production. The earliest males to show sex get tossed, no ifs ands or buts. Dominant males are useless for drug


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