# switching to vert. from 8kw scrog



## ricky6991 (Jun 27, 2013)

ok so im used to doing 8 lights horizontally hung over screens. picture of my last one is below... rooms are sealed with co2 and 5 ton ac. overkill i know but works great.

my new room is going to have 12 flower plants with 3 stations. 4 plants on each station with 2 600w hung ontop of each other bare bulb. going to use hydro ebb n flow system with 5 gallon buckets. need a chiller im sure since buckets close to heat. 4 week veg time.

question is how much do you think my yeild will change. picture is of a 8 an 1/2 lb crop of really really dryed bud.(too long). 24 plants. 4 week veg time also.

new room have 12 only. same strain though. should get more per plant from being so close to bulb and lumens correct?


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## Prawn Connery (Jun 27, 2013)

Mate, if I'm reading that correctly - 8+lb from 8k - a good vert set-up should at least double that.

Having said that, it looks like you're growing a predominantly indica variety - what's the strain? You really need something that will stretch and branch a bit to take full advantage of stacked 600s - something that will grow tall enough to take advantage of the extra head height.

Otherwise, you may need to veg them longer - grow them bigger - before flipping to 12/12.

I have separate veg and flowering rooms, so I have 8-9 weeks to clone and veg at my leisure before each plant goes into the flowering chamber. If you are vegging and flowering in the same room, you may need to take an extra week or so veg time into account to get your plants big enough to take advantage of the vertical set-up.

The alternative is to run single 600s instead of two on top of each other. You will need a lot more floor space (footprint), but you can keep your plants shorter and still take advantage of the vertical set-up.

The final thing to remember is that if you are going vertical for the first time, you will need a few grows under your belt to see how things work and fine-tune your set-up to take full advantage of it. If you know your strain well, it makes it easier.

As for heat, any chance of setting up a remote reservoir to feed your buckets? That's what Krusty did with his room grows - used a large, remote reservoir to fill and drain each of his "freedom buckets" (as he used to call them).


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## ricky6991 (Jun 28, 2013)

Thought this thread may get no help... so thanks for responding.

ok, my stand is pineapple express. Although i wanna swap out for afew others a buddy has, i may do my first vert setup with the pineapple for the experience i have with strand. I will also have my rez outside the flower room as i always do that for lower rez temps.

next, so even 4 week veg being short and just 1 light you think may not completely utilize a vert setup? I am convinced now that i understand how a vert light gives 360* lumens and the plants being so close to the light for max lumens without being burnt AS WELL as not lollipoping will greatly increase my yeild per plant even with just 4 week veg. vert. Just seems like the most efficient way to grow.

my last crop yeilded about 8 zips per plant with 12 plants and 6kw light horizontal with some lst. The most recient scrog did 4-5 zips per plant with 24 plants in a scrog with more lighting. The buds were wayyyy fluffier this time compared to the last. I just feel like adding more horizontal lights is just putting an exspensive bandaid on my yield problem when i should be getting full results off each light. If that made since to you lol. Hard to explain.

just know that if i did 8 zips per plant on 12 with 6kw horizontally and not crazy trained then i should get that with 3 stations giving max lumens to the 4 plants on each. Whether that means 1 600w or 2 stacked is mainly based on veg time your implying which does make since. Also prob a reason why you advised to doing afew grows to dial in lighting ect.

mainly the main reason i started the thread was so experience people could give me an insight if im in the right direction for not being happy with my yield or if i am just expecting too much off a average yeilded and if my vert setup sounds on track.


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## Prawn Connery (Jun 28, 2013)

There are many factors that affect yield, but an average number for any hydro set-up - horizontal or vertical - should be around 1lb (16oz) per 600w lamp. If you are not getting that, there would appear to be some room for improvement - whether it be a different strain, heat reduction, nutrient optimisation, root growth, more oxygen in the root zone, ventilation etc.

For example, I have seen poor ventilation seriously hurt yields. In one case, a friend of mine kept wondering why he was only getting 6oz per 600w lamp in a commercial grow. He didn't realise his carbon filter was blocked and his exhaust fan wasn't working properly! As soon as he fixed this, he doubled his yield to around 12oz per 600w lamp.

Still not happy, I advised him to switch to a dedicated coco nutrient (he was growing in coco with a no-name hydro nutrient). The very next grow he pulled an average 20oz per 600w lamp!

My friend now grows exactly the way I do: he uses my clones, my brand coco nutrient, my regime etc. The only thing he doesn't do is grow vertically. My yields are consistently about 25-30 per cent better, so the only difference is the vertical lighting.

The moral of the story is, you need to get EVERYTHING dialed in properly before you can get max yields. Even if you switch to vertical growing, if there are other problems in your set-up, you're not going to make the most of it. If you are not happy with your yields now, you need to go through your entire system to see what can be improved and try to work out why you are not getting the yields you expect.

For a start, just by looking at your photos it appears your lights are way too high (sorry, can't see the perspective, but that's what it looks like from here). That will hurt. If you can't get your lights closer, then your room is obviously too hot or you don't have enough ventilation. Your plants look healthy, so perhaps lighting/ventilation explains some of your problem. But I can't be sure because I'm not there. A bit more info would be helpful.


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## ricky6991 (Jun 29, 2013)

They are high... i measured them and one screen was 30" from top bud and other was 34". Thats to the topbud too not the smaller ones which are ob. Further away... my room is sealed with co2 and fan at every corner and ac will handle whatever i throw at it. My issue was either my lights too high or i let dry way to long by mistake cause the buds were crispy dry.

i guess ill just have to see what happens when trying vert. And adjust as i go. As i see it now... the horizontal light get top of plant only after being trained and lolipoped and then only gets 4ft area. The vert setup requires no training, all of the plant even lowest bud site gets full lumens and putting 4 plants around the bulb will give max lumens to all 4 plants top to bottom... that alone means 600w - 4 plants compared to 1000w - 4ft(possibly 2 plants/lollipoped)


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## Prawn Connery (Jun 29, 2013)

30-34" is way too high - it should be closer to 12". Put your hand under the light and move it closer and closer until you get to a point where it burns your hand, then move it away again. Once you find the point where your hand can comfortably sit under the light, that's how far away it should be.

Vertical lights can get closer still, as you should have a floor fan blowing up and ducting heat directly away from the bulb. My plants are 6-8" away from my lights.


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## Alaric (Jul 4, 2013)

Prawn Connery said:


> 30-34" is way too high - it should be closer to 12".
> 
> *I took measurements with my light meter for a new 1K hps in a sealed air cooler hood. 16" below the glass was 10,000 fc (same intensity of sunlight at noon time on a clear summer day). at double the distance from the glass was only around 2500 fc----confirming the inverse square law of light. Removed the hood and 10,000 fc was about 12" from light tube-----thus a trade-off running without a hood to get more plant material exposed to the light/s. *
> 
> ...


There are other ways to get more plant material around light/s rather than hanging the light/s vertically.

A~~~


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## InsaneMJ (Jul 7, 2013)

I have a question, have you had buds not fill out as full or more airy because the light isn't focused? I just ran my bd vertical an it looks like my buds have thinned out alot. Think it as partly due to poor circulation? I had two fans at the bottom a carbon filter to help circulate and a ac unit and a dehumidifier. So the air was moving fairly good. I did add the crystal burst and snow storm ultra but I doubt that'd cause the buds to thin out. Idk what I'm doing wrong.


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## ricky6991 (Jul 10, 2013)

I wouldnt say they not focused but someone i know running a 1kw verticle light in 12x12 room and leaves have super thin and tiny buds and just wierd looking. He has high humid and low 80s temp also so im surethat equates. i hivent had a vert grow myself yet. Trying to but idk.


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