# Bonsai Mums Help Needed



## JSB99 (Jan 13, 2018)

This is my first time growing plants to mum up. I've been following the old-timer's guide, but the pics are confusing me a little.

In the three pics that show the initial topping, the plant has around 9 shoots, and looks to be in a 4" pot.
  

But in the pic that follows, the left-most plant looks like it's topped in a 2" pot.


I just posted a couple pics in another thread, and it was suggested that it was time to transplant them. So I'm not sure if I should transplant them, and the mum them up when they get bigger, or keep them in the 2" pots until I top.
 

Also, it states, "_The top 2 will grow the fastest and when they get to about 5 inches pinch or snip out their growing tips to just above a leaf node. This will allow the second pair to catch up in a day or so, then pinch them out as well. This will encourage side shoots to form, any that grow into the central cup shaped space pinch out._"
Is he just talking about fimming here?


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## vostok (Jan 14, 2018)

Why not ask the guy over at the 'mag its his thread you are following ....right?


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## JSB99 (Jan 14, 2018)

vostok said:


> Why not ask the guy over at the 'mag its his thread you are following ....right?


Oh yeah, huh! LOL


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## JSB99 (Jan 14, 2018)

vostok said:


> Why not ask the guy over at the 'mag its his thread you are following ....right?


The thread is really old, but there were enough pics, and posts, to figure it out.


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## vostok (Jan 15, 2018)

Old Timers thread on IC from 2006 and on a guest account 

2 years later on GC at 2008 revamped by Nugglord

picks are missing since their recent shitty update link here

https://forum.grasscity.com/threads/bonsai-mums-a-guide.291687/


Here is the original thread from way back

http://www.cannabase.com/cl/index.html

1.5Mb .pdf 

(http://www.cannabase.com/cl/book/Bonsi Mums.zip)

please don't loose ...lol

good luck


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## JSB99 (Jan 15, 2018)

vostok said:


> Old Timers thread on IC from 2006 and on a guest account
> 
> 2 years later on GC at 2008 revamped by Nugglord
> 
> ...


Right on!

Thanks, Man!


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## Anothermeduser (Jan 19, 2018)

When i bosai, i do to keep small, and be able to produce clones, i found i liked the 4" square taper pots, i could make a small plant produce about 10-15 nice shoots in a month or so, cutting them back to a few small shoots, i would top now, keep in the small pot for awhile yet


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## JSB99 (Jan 19, 2018)

They're still pretty squat, so I'm not sure if I should let them grow a little more, so that I can get to the middle a little better, to top. What I'd really like to do is take 4 to 6 clones from one, to grow out, when I do top. Is that doable, or do you usually have to let them grow a bit, after they've been topped?

BTW, if you keep your mums under T5's, how far away do you usually keep the light? I've been hovering between 4" and 6" (10cm and 15cm).

Here are some pics I just took.


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## JSB99 (Jan 19, 2018)

I went ahead and topped them. Everything looks great! I posted some pics on one of my other threads *here*.


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## Anothermeduser (Jan 27, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> I went ahead and topped them. Everything looks great! I posted some pics on one of my other threads *here*.


 As long as theres some shoots left to grow your fine, i like to cut them back to just a few growth shoots as the less old plant matter IMO the better for pest evasion.


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## JSB99 (Jan 27, 2018)

Anothermeduser said:


> As long as theres some shoots left to grow your fine, i like to cut them back to just a few growth shoots as the less old plant matter IMO the better for pest evasion.


Thx! I've cut mine back as well, and took my first set of clones, which were the very bottom shoots, below the manifold. They are still a bit bushy, but when the fimmed tops grow out some I'll prune them back heavily. Probably over a couple days, so I don't shock them.


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## JSB99 (Jan 29, 2018)

I posted the following in another thread, but I thought I'd copy it here, since this thread's about keeping mums.

Today, I tackled my bushes! They're so bushy and squat, that it's hard to water them. I've also got two of them with six main nodes, and I wanted to trim them down to four. Also, the Gorilla Cookies really took off and had gotten way too tall. So I topped the four main branches. I'm not worried about how long their recovery time is, I've already got my cuttings. And now, I have many more 

Girl Scout Crack - Trimmed two nodes
Before:
 

After:
  

White Widow - Trimmed two nodes
Before:
 

After:
  

Gorilla Cookies - Topped the four main branches. I originally fimed these, but she had already grown too tall.

Before:
  


After:


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## JSB99 (Feb 1, 2018)

These mums are growing like crazy! I just topped four branches, on two of these, and they've already recovered!

Once the upper manifold, consisting of eight branches, have grown out, I'll be cutting their food, and raising the lights. I haven't been skip-feeding with these. I don't even know if I'm supposed to use water every other feeding LOL! But I do flush once a week. I'm going to clip the big fans back, like I did with the one in the back, so I can fit them all without overlap.

I still don't have my outer two T5's going yet. The CFLs are covering a pretty large area, fairly well. I'm going to add 2 more CFLs at the left end of the hood, since it's open and doesn't have any mylar to reflect the light back.


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## JSB99 (Feb 3, 2018)

Trimming the mums way back, today. They got really bushy again, so I removed most all the big fans, and left the smaller leaves on the nodes. Now, I have room to fit three to five more, under the hood. Still don't have my outer T5's running, but the cfl's are doing a hell of a job! I just messaged the seller again, to see if he'll send me a ballast. If I don't here from him, I'll probably just buy one. I've already got the one I need ready to go. It'll be less expensive to have those going, compared to the cfl's. It's 48w with the tubes compared to 184w with the cfl's. I guess I could turn some of them off, now that I've got them so compact.

White Widow
Before:
 

After:
 

Gorilla Cookies
Before:
 

After:
 

Girl Scout Crack
Before:
 

After:
 

Lots of room now!


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## Joint Monster (Feb 11, 2018)

You cut those girls back really well. Do you have a rule of thumb for how much you defoliate/lollipop?


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## JSB99 (Feb 11, 2018)

Joint Monster said:


> You cut those girls back really well. Do you have a rule of thumb for how much you defoliate/lollipop?


When I'm vegging, I do a lot less trimming than with the mums. I'm trying to grow the the main branches, but I get a lot of quick growth with the leaves along the way. I trim back the leaves to get air flowing through the plants, and to fit them all under my T5s

This is after one week, from the last pics


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## JSB99 (Feb 12, 2018)

Trim time! Time to trim off the unneeded branches, so more energy is put into the the top eight branches of each manifold. I had a plan going into this, which was to trim off any branches that weren't on those to eight. Everything I trimmed off are perfect for cloning, and more will grow out of those spots I trimmed. I don't need any more clones right now, but when I do, I should be able to take around 24 clones, once the top branches grow.

*White Widow:
Before:*













*After:












Gorilla Cookies
Before:












After:












Here are two into four of the top eight branches on the manifold






Girl Scout Crack
Before:




*


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## JSB99 (Feb 12, 2018)

*After:











Much more room:




*


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## SoCal Calyx (Feb 16, 2018)

Really enjoying this thread JSB. I'm about to pop some seeds to grow mothers and plan to go the bonsai route. You're doing great with this.


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## JSB99 (Feb 16, 2018)

SoCal Calyx said:


> Really enjoying this thread JSB. I'm about to pop some seeds to grow mothers and plan to go the bonsai route. You're doing great with this.


Thanks! It's a little bit of work, and it can be really nerve-racking when you're chopping up your perfectly healthy plants over and over again! But after the first few times, you really become aware of just how hardy these plants are. They may not actually be a "weed", but they sure are persistent like them.

I might regrow the Gorilla Cookies, so that I can grow a shorter version of her. I've learned a lot, since I first started, and I think I can get some better results the second time around.

Stay tuned


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## JSB99 (Feb 23, 2018)

I decided to put my mums under the big light, and grow them out a bit. Then, I'm going to take some really good clones from each, and re-grow the mums. After some experience, I see ways I should've done things, and other things I shouldn't have done. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the original mums. Maybe I can move them outside to grow this summer.


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## SoCal Calyx (Feb 23, 2018)

Looking forward to hearing what you learned JSB. What are you looking to achieve with the new moms from clone?


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## JSB99 (Feb 23, 2018)

SoCal Calyx said:


> Looking forward to hearing what you learned JSB. What are you looking to achieve with the new moms from clone?


Instead of trimming everything lower than the top eight branches, I'll allow them to grow out. And, instead of having eight branches, I'll keep it to the four main branches that grow from the main stalk. Won't be able to get as many cuttings, but I'll still have plenty to suit my needs. I'm only going to be growing four plants at a time, so I really don't need access to 24 cuttings at a time. What this will do us allow me to keep my mum's real short. I'm thinking 4" to 6".

Stay tuned 

As a side note, I'm finding out that these have to be watered once or twice a day, because their containers are so small. But they need to be small to restrict the growth via making them root bound. I tried setting up drips, but because the small net pots fill up so quickly, it's difficult to dial in the right amount of time, and the flow to water them. Plus, sometimes each plant needs a specific amount, so it has to be dialed in to each plant. So, I gave up on that idea for now. I'm thinking about doing a wick-feed, so that I can use a small res beneath them. I just don't know how efficient they are at getting water to all the roots.


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## SoCal Calyx (Feb 23, 2018)

Oh wow, daily waterings huh? I hadn't realized that these bonsai moms would need that. But it makes sense with such a small container.

I think I ended up with six inch square containers, that's all they had at the shop when I went.


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## JSB99 (Feb 23, 2018)

SoCal Calyx said:


> Oh wow, daily waterings huh? I hadn't realized that these bonsai moms would need that. But it makes sense with such a small container.
> 
> I think I ended up with six inch square containers, that's all they had at the shop when I went.


Some of it has to do with how much I'm feeding them, and how close the lights are. I have them rowing really aggressively right now. I keep the T5s and CFLs just a few inches away from the tops. Once I get them to the size I want, I'll back everything off, and then it'll probably be every other day, if that. Then I should be able to set up some drips, if I even need to.


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## Lucky Luke (Feb 27, 2018)

interesting thread. Keep the up dates coming.


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## Jenniann04 (Mar 13, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> They're still pretty squat, so I'm not sure if I should let them grow a little more, so that I can get to the middle a little better, to top. What I'd really like to do is take 4 to 6 clones from one, to grow out, when I do top. Is that doable, or do you usually have to let them grow a bit, after they've been topped?
> 
> BTW, if you keep your mums under T5's, how far away do you usually keep the light? I've been hovering between 4" and 6" (10cm and 15cm).
> 
> ...


Awwww they are so cute!!!!! Lmmfao! I like how you have the set up for them. My house is like a green house and my dinning room is a grow room lol. Perks of living in Cali. My baby’s are growing on my kitchen counter in mini bubblers with T5s and I have two tents in dining room. One hydro grows and the other autoflower soil grows.


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## JSB99 (Mar 13, 2018)

Jenniann04 said:


> Awwww they are so cute!!!!! Lmmfao! I like how you have the set up for them. My house is like a green house and my dinning room is a grow room lol. Perks of living in Cali. My baby’s are growing on my kitchen counter in mini bubblers with T5s and I have two tents in dining room. One hydro grows and the other autoflower soil grows.


A real "greenhouse" LOL! When they all get big, it'll be like the Amazon jungle while you're walking through your house! Lots of fresh oxygen for you


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## JSB99 (Mar 13, 2018)

Jenniann04 said:


> Awwww they are so cute!!!!! Lmmfao! I like how you have the set up for them. My house is like a green house and my dinning room is a grow room lol. Perks of living in Cali. My baby’s are growing on my kitchen counter in mini bubblers with T5s and I have two tents in dining room. One hydro grows and the other autoflower soil grows.


Out of curiosity, how are you containing the light for all your plants out in the open? You want to contain any light leaks during lights out. Light leaks will cause your plants to turn hermaphrodite, which they'll also do if they're stressed too much. Basically, the plants try to pollinate themselves, to produce seeds, in a last ditch effort to save it's species. You want complete, uninterrupted, total blackout periods for your plants, especially during flower.

Also something to watch out for, with your plants like that, are damaging bugs. You'll want to take some protective measures to try and avoid this. I spray insecticide around any opening to the grow room. You also want to get in the habit of checking for problems, daily. Bugs can do enormous damage, or death, in a very short period of time. Get yourself familiar with critters, how to identify, eradicate, and protect your plants. Here's a great guide for plant problems, and how to correct them...
GrowWeedEasy Plant Problems

Habits to get into:

Check your plants daily
Look under leaves, as this is where lots of bugs, like spider mites, like to live and eat your plants
Get a jewelers microscope (see below) as many of the bugs are very small, and cant always be seen with the naked eye
Have Neem oil spray and pyrethrum-based bug spray on-hand. You want to have these so that you can start treating your plants as soon as you discover pests. Spider mites are the WORST! They will destroy your entire crop! If you find these, take immediate action!
Absolutely do not go from an outside garden, or yard in general, to where your plants are. This is a surefire way to bring bugs, especially mites, into your grow area. Wash up, change your clothes, use a shop compressor to give yourself an air bath, outside, etc...
I use two different jewelers microscopes, a *30x* and a *120x*. The 30x is really easy to pick up and see what you're looking for. I use the 120x for looking at trichomes to determine when to harvest.

This might seem like a lot of daily work, but once you get into the habit of checking your plants, you'll find that it just takes a minute or so. Its a small effort, to prevent catastrophes.

Hope this helps


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## Gardenator (Mar 15, 2018)

I am thinking of making a mum bubble bucket for 4 mum strains to stay in circulation they are my favs  and I have shaved roots in my buckets before and they fully come back in about 2 weeks with a nice 1ml/gal genhydro microbio and 1ml/gal Fox Farm root drench ph'd. But i am wondering if spaced in a container nicely can i do this with 4 mums like you have except in a bubble bucket? My thoughts are I can as long as I prune properly with a little bit of work do you think they will come out decently in one container? I dont mess with soil and i dont use any media just 2 inch neoprene collars and 2 inch net pots from start to finish. So I have to restrict them to one 5 gal container I think. I appologise for the unorganized train of thought here but i had an idea of what i was going tp do and then i read this thread and wanted to brainstorm with someone else before I make up my mind. Right now i just pull clones on week 2 of bloom but i have 4 keepers in the cloner lol and i need some advice


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## JSB99 (Mar 15, 2018)

Gardenator said:


> I am thinking of making a mum bubble bucket for 4 mum strains to stay in circulation they are my favs  and I have shaved roots in my buckets before and they fully come back in about 2 weeks with a nice 1ml/gal genhydro microbio and 1ml/gal Fox Farm root drench ph'd. But i am wondering if spaced in a container nicely can i do this with 4 mums like you have except in a bubble bucket? My thoughts are I can as long as I prune properly with a little bit of work do you think they will come out decently in one container? I dont mess with soil and i dont use any media just 2 inch neoprene collars and 2 inch net pots from start to finish. So I have to restrict them to one 5 gal container I think. I appologise for the unorganized train of thought here but i had an idea of what i was going tp do and then i read this thread and wanted to brainstorm with someone else before I make up my mind. Right now i just pull clones on week 2 of bloom but i have 4 keepers in the cloner lol and i need some advice


There are a few reasons to keep mums in soil, not hydro

If your pump dies, or you have a power outage, plants in a DWC will start dying in as little as 15 minutes. The roots drown because there's no dissolved oxygen being added to the water.
Growth, especially in veg, can be explosive with DWC. This can make it difficult to keep up with. Remember, along with the plants in your grow, you now have many more to attend to each day. It can become overwhelming.
Soil is much more stable than hydro. If there's an issue with the water, pH levels, nutrient levels, etc...plants in a DWC react very quickly. Soil acts as a buffer to many problems, and will protect your plant.
That's just with mother plants in general. You wouldn't be able to grow mums in a dwc, because one of the most important parts of keeping mums so small is to contain the roots, and make them "root bound". You start off with a 1"x1" square propogation tray cell. Once the sprout fills that up and become root bound, you move it to a 2"x2" cell, then 3x3, and finally, 4x4. Each year they need to be root pruned to keep them going.


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## Gardenator (Mar 15, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> There are a few reasons to keep mums in soil, not hydro
> 
> If your pump dies, or you have a power outage, plants in a DWC will start dying in as little as 15 minutes. The roots drown because there's no dissolved oxygen being added to the water.
> Growth, especially in veg, can be explosive with DWC. This can make it difficult to keep up with. Remember, along with the plants in your grow, you now have many more to attend to each day. It can become overwhelming.
> ...



Okay so I have a couple of responses to what you are saying here in objection to what you pose for problems with dwc mums. Okay so I do understand the risks involved with the dwc as to power and ph and nutrientnlevels as i only grow in hydro now and use no media, the air pumps on everything I have are 6v dc air pumps all hooked to a dc power inverter that is also hooked on a rely hardwired to a m18 milwaukee impact battery pack i made myself from old m18 impact and drill batteries that is always charged on a auto shut off milwaukee charger so when the power goes out they switch to battery power and it will run all the pumps for at least 24hrs. So I am not worried about my roots drowning at all in home everyday after work andbi check every bucket for that reason it happened before and I was able to bring it back by cutting the roots back to the basket and vegging it on light food with FF root drench in the solution. I also only grow in hydro which means i check everything everyday I have a tds ppm meter and a ph pen both calibrated in the appropriate temp calibration solutions for each meter and a back up fluid for checking the ph that is color coded to each ph level. I use a specific amount per gal of the gen hydro floratrio hardwater series its half the strength recomended by gen hydro. Both of these levels I check every day along with the water levels which are kept up every day with ph'd nutrient solution and fresh water for 7 days until a complete drain and change is done with fresh nutes and ph'd water on every single container I have vegging blooming cloning all of them. My light schedule is set up so i get half the time its on by the time I get home from work so I am in there every day for a couple hours. I combat dwc problems as my regular schedule and is only be adding one container to my normal daily checks. The part I am concerned with is the 4 plants to one container small enough to root bound the plants but that explosive growth happens in the roots as well and becoming root bound in a 5 gal container for 4 mums growing 2ce as fast as to soil shouldnt be a problem root bounding them in a short square 3-5 gal container. I'm more concerned with I'd be shaving those roots to the basket every 4-6 weeks depending on how light I feed em because i was thinking 1/4 nutes which will slow the growth rate as well in a dwc I have found there is a nice line between perfect and nute burn with dwc and I have used the same containers over and over again so i have my nutrient levels fairly well figured out and it only varies a small amount from strain to strain and they all respond about tye same to my nute schedule. So that part might break into my time a little bit more but I think its doable. As for on top the veg growth will be significant but if I prune once every 2 weeks and pull clones every 4 they should stay in control i think. 
As for using soil I know it acts as a buffer to a lot of the problems by growing in dwc but I have absolutely no experience with it at all so to me that is kind of a risk on keeping my favs around growing in something I dont have the food or equipment for I dont have the soil know where to begin with it and I don't really want the cross contamination from it either as it drastically can effect the ph of my solution in the other containers and effect the nutrients as well. Also different micro bacteria are in soil that are not in my solution which could be harmful to everything I have established. Laws in my state also require it to be indoors we have a certain allotment of mature and immature plants but with dwc I can maintain a small amount of plants within our legal allotment on a perpetual cycle hoping the bloom room gives me a pound every 60 days and in order to maintain that schedule and be perpetual i am pruning and pulling clones and checking everything on a regular basis the risks of dwc don't bother me as its how i grow but i also dont think the mums in soil could meet that demanding schedule I'm kind of hopinf for the explosiveish growth from dwc and ready for its problems I think it can be done lol I am going to make a post and keep it up to date. I wanna know if i can do it now because you pose a valid arguement but i think I can lol


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## JSB99 (Mar 15, 2018)

Gardenator said:


> Okay so I have a couple of responses to what you are saying here in objection to what you pose for problems with dwc mums. Okay so I do understand the risks involved with the dwc as to power and ph and nutrientnlevels as i only grow in hydro now and use no media, the air pumps on everything I have are 6v dc air pumps all hooked to a dc power inverter that is also hooked on a rely hardwired to a m18 milwaukee impact battery pack i made myself from old m18 impact and drill batteries that is always charged on a auto shut off milwaukee charger so when the power goes out they switch to battery power and it will run all the pumps for at least 24hrs. So I am not worried about my roots drowning at all in home everyday after work andbi check every bucket for that reason it happened before and I was able to bring it back by cutting the roots back to the basket and vegging it on light food with FF root drench in the solution. I also only grow in hydro which means i check everything everyday I have a tds ppm meter and a ph pen both calibrated in the appropriate temp calibration solutions for each meter and a back up fluid for checking the ph that is color coded to each ph level. I use a specific amount per gal of the gen hydro floratrio hardwater series its half the strength recomended by gen hydro. Both of these levels I check every day along with the water levels which are kept up every day with ph'd nutrient solution and fresh water for 7 days until a complete drain and change is done with fresh nutes and ph'd water on every single container I have vegging blooming cloning all of them. My light schedule is set up so i get half the time its on by the time I get home from work so I am in there every day for a couple hours. I combat dwc problems as my regular schedule and is only be adding one container to my normal daily checks. The part I am concerned with is the 4 plants to one container small enough to root bound the plants but that explosive growth happens in the roots as well and becoming root bound in a 5 gal container for 4 mums growing 2ce as fast as to soil shouldnt be a problem root bounding them in a short square 3-5 gal container. I'm more concerned with I'd be shaving those roots to the basket every 4-6 weeks depending on how light I feed em because i was thinking 1/4 nutes which will slow the growth rate as well in a dwc I have found there is a nice line between perfect and nute burn with dwc and I have used the same containers over and over again so i have my nutrient levels fairly well figured out and it only varies a small amount from strain to strain and they all respond about tye same to my nute schedule. So that part might break into my time a little bit more but I think its doable. As for on top the veg growth will be significant but if I prune once every 2 weeks and pull clones every 4 they should stay in control i think.
> As for using soil I know it acts as a buffer to a lot of the problems by growing in dwc but I have absolutely no experience with it at all so to me that is kind of a risk on keeping my favs around growing in something I dont have the food or equipment for I dont have the soil know where to begin with it and I don't really want the cross contamination from it either as it drastically can effect the ph of my solution in the other containers and effect the nutrients as well. Also different micro bacteria are in soil that are not in my solution which could be harmful to everything I have established. Laws in my state also require it to be indoors we have a certain allotment of mature and immature plants but with dwc I can maintain a small amount of plants within our legal allotment on a perpetual cycle hoping the bloom room gives me a pound every 60 days and in order to maintain that schedule and be perpetual i am pruning and pulling clones and checking everything on a regular basis the risks of dwc don't bother me as its how i grow but i also dont think the mums in soil could meet that demanding schedule I'm kind of hopinf for the explosiveish growth from dwc and ready for its problems I think it can be done lol I am going to make a post and keep it up to date. I wanna know if i can do it now because you pose a valid arguement but i think I can lol


It sounds like you have a lot of things covered, in case of a disaster. Yes, you certainly can keep mothers in DWC. An advantage of that is not having to water daily, or keep soil around. I was just pointing out some common problems the ordinary grower might think about, when chosing their medium.

As far as keeping them small, it's not going to hurt to try. But, I really want to see the pics if you do this! I'd like to see how they do. I'm predicting that they'll outgrow the lid fairly quickly, but I've never tried it, so what do I know


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## Underground Scientist (Mar 17, 2018)

Nice lookin' plants


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## Nugachino (Mar 17, 2018)

Hmm. I revegged a plant a little while back. That was about a foot tall. So a lot bigger than these. But, I like the idea of being able to keep good genetic expressions in this manner.

It's easier than having to play the genetic lottery with beans. Hoping to get very similar results to what you got before.


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## Jenniann04 (Mar 17, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Out of curiosity, how are you containing the light for all your plants out in the open? You want to contain any light leaks during lights out. Light leaks will cause your plants to turn hermaphrodite, which they'll also do if they're stressed too much. Basically, the plants try to pollinate themselves, to produce seeds, in a last ditch effort to save it's species. You want complete, uninterrupted, total blackout periods for your plants, especially during flower.
> 
> Also something to watch out for, with your plants like that, are damaging bugs. You'll want to take some protective measures to try and avoid this. I spray insecticide around any opening to the grow room. You also want to get in the habit of checking for problems, daily. Bugs can do enormous damage, or death, in a very short period of time. Get yourself familiar with critters, how to identify, eradicate, and protect your plants. Here's a great guide for plant problems, and how to correct them...
> GrowWeedEasy Plant Problems
> ...


I always put my baby’s on 24 light. They stay on my counter inter a T5. Once she gets a little bigger I am putting her in a tent. Right now both of my tents are full of plants. I have a set of plants that I am currently flushing. Once I harvest them I will move her to the tent and put her in a bigger bucket. I sprayed organic insecticides on her just Incase bugs get in my house. I like her in my counter because I check on her in the morning and at night. Always seems like when I first start out in dwc the ph swing is crazy so I have easy access. I have two auto flowers in one tent and two non auto on 12/12 in another tent. There is one exhaust fan t’ed to both tents. In the pics you San see both tents. In one tent I have the autoflowers in soil the other tent has the flowered ones and my baby on counter. I just tipped the baby because I’m going to top and fim her. All of these plants were grown on my counter like the one baby.


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## JSB99 (Mar 17, 2018)

Jenniann04 said:


> I always put my baby’s on 24 light. They stay on my counter inter a T5. Once she gets a little bigger I am putting her in a tent. Right now both of my tents are full of plants. I have a set of plants that I am currently flushing. Once I harvest them I will move her to the tent and put her in a bigger bucket. I sprayed organic insecticides on her just Incase bugs get in my house. I like her in my counter because I check on her in the morning and at night. Always seems like when I first start out in dwc the ph swing is crazy so I have easy access. I have two auto flowers in one tent and two non auto on 12/12 in another tent. There is one exhaust fan t’ed to both tents. In the pics you San see both tents. In one tent I have the autoflowers in soil the other tent has the flowered ones and my baby on counter. I just tipped the baby because I’m going to top and fim her. All of these plants were grown on my counter like the one baby. View attachment 4107076View attachment 4107077 View attachment 4107078 View attachment 4107080View attachment 4107081


Very nice!!! You've got your hands full 

As far as your pH swings, make sure you're checking pH after adding nutes. Nutes will change the pH. Also, if you're not giving nutes, don't bother balancing the water. Balanced water is only required by the plants to be able to take in nutrients, and transport them throughout the plants.


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## Jenniann04 (Mar 17, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Very nice!!! You've got your hands full
> 
> As far as your pH swings, make sure you're checking pH after adding nutes. Nutes will change the pH. Also, if you're not giving nutes, don't bother balancing the water. Balanced water is only required by the plants to be able to take in nutrients, and transport them throughout the plants.


I check ph each day. I only add nutes when I change res once a week. The ph swing is every day. When I do change the water I ph the water then add nutes then re check ph. The hydro nutes I have don’t mess with the ph that I have ever noticed. Every day when I check the ph it is 6.8 ish.... I adjust down to 5.5 then the next day it is back to about 6.2-6.8 and I readjust again. This has always happened when I first start out during aggressive veg and they are smaller. I just assumed the more nutes they take up the more the swing due to biproduct. I don’t notice as much of a swing when flowering though. Maybe a .2 change in flowering a day which is fixed when I top off with phed water. But I am OCD and it gives me my OCD fix when dealing with multiple grows at once LOL


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## Gardenator (Mar 17, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Very nice!!! You've got your hands full
> 
> As far as your pH swings, make sure you're checking pH after adding nutes. Nutes will change the pH. Also, if you're not giving nutes, don't bother balancing the water. Balanced water is only required by the plants to be able to take in nutrients, and transport them throughout the plants.


As far as any water you water or spray your plants with it should always be ph balanced because unless you are using reverse osmosis and there is absolutely no nutrients in your medium you will still find deficiency problems extremely fast in dwc amd a few days in soil with non ph balanced water with or without the nutrients in it there will still be dissolved solids the plant will take from the water to help make amino acids to make photosynthesis possible. Always always always please ph balance your water for your media nuted or otherwise this is really a very important thing as your roots cannot break down its food or the oxygen incthe water as well unless it is in optimal ph range for your media. This is so very important JSB espite what you may have read against balancing fresh water I promise.


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## JSB99 (Mar 17, 2018)

Jenniann04 said:


> I check ph each day. I only add nutes when I change res once a week. The ph swing is every day. When I do change the water I ph the water then add nutes then re check ph. The hydro nutes I have don’t mess with the ph that I have ever noticed. Every day when I check the ph it is 6.8 ish.... I adjust down to 5.5 then the next day it is back to about 6.2-6.8 and I readjust again. This has always happened when I first start out during aggressive veg and they are smaller. I just assumed the more nutes they take up the more the swing due to biproduct. I don’t notice as much of a swing when flowering though. Maybe a .2 change in flowering a day which is fixed when I top off with phed water. But I am OCD and it gives me my OCD fix when dealing with multiple grows at once LOL


That's a pretty small container, which makes adjusting things very touchy. Are you using tap water? If so, can you post the TDS and pH right out of he tap? Also, fill a glass with tap, and leave it out for a day. After that, take note of the drop in TDS, if any.

When you add water, you really don't have to check the pH before adding nutes, because he pH doesn't matter at that point. 

When you change your water, wait a few hours, or even a day, before adding nutes. I would also change the water every few days, especially when the plant gets bigger. It's a really small amount of water. See if that helps.


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## JSB99 (Mar 17, 2018)

Gardenator said:


> As far as any water you water or spray your plants with it should always be ph balanced because unless you are using reverse osmosis and there is absolutely no nutrients in your medium you will still find deficiency problems extremely fast in dwc amd a few days in soil with non ph balanced water with or without the nutrients in it there will still be dissolved solids the plant will take from the water to help make amino acids to make photosynthesis possible. Always always always please ph balance your water for your media nuted or otherwise this is really a very important thing as your roots cannot break down its food or the oxygen incthe water as well unless it is in optimal ph range for your media. This is so very important JSB espite what you may have read against balancing fresh water I promise.


You are way off on this! You might want to do a little more reading, and a little less giving advice, right now.

There are so many incorrect things with what you said, I'm not going to spend my time responding to them all.


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## Jenniann04 (Mar 17, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> That's a pretty small container, which makes adjusting things very touchy. Are you using tap water? If so, can you post the TDS and pH right out of he tap? Also, fill a glass with tap, and leave it out for a day. After that, take note of the drop in TDS, if any.
> 
> When you add water, you really don't have to check the pH before adding nutes, because he pH doesn't matter at that point.
> 
> When you change your water, wait a few hours, or even a day, before adding nutes. I would also change the water every few days, especially when the plant gets bigger. It's a really small amount of water. See if that helps.


Yeah it’s a one gallon container. I use tap water that is ran through a water purifier unit under my sink. I have really hard water. After it is ran through the purifier the ppm of the tap water is about 80. It comes out ph of about 6.89ish. It is very touchy when ph’ing it buy the gallon. I use a gallon jug and it takes about 1 1/4 mil ph down to get ph to 5.5-5.6. When I am ph’ing the container it is in.... its approximately about a half gallon. When the ph swing goes about to 6.5 it takes about 1/4 mil ph down to bring it back down to 5.5-5.6


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## JSB99 (Mar 17, 2018)

Jenniann04 said:


> Yeah it’s a one gallon container. I use tap water that is ran through a water purifier unit under my sink. I have really hard water. After it is ran through the purifier the ppm of the tap water is about 80. It comes out ph of about 6.89ish. It is very touchy when ph’ing it buy the gallon. I use a gallon jug and it takes about 1 1/4 mil ph down to get ph to 5.5-5.6. When I am ph’ing the container it is in.... its approximately about a half gallon. When the ph swing goes about to 6.5 it takes about 1/4 mil ph down to bring it back down to 5.5-5.6


80ppm after the filter is good. Still, see if it drops after 24hrs in a glass. If there is a drop, it might be messing with your pH level. That's why I was suggesting adding nutes the following day, after a water change. This is the same as my situation.

Your pH out of the tap is normal. It's usually around 7.0. And the amount of pH down you add per gallon is the same as what I use. 5.5 is a little low though. I keep mine about 6.0. It's still best to adjust your pH after adding nutes, and not necessary if not adding nutes. You're actually wasting your pH down doing this. Some newer growers balance their bubble or aero cloners, and it's so unnecessary. Unless nutes are present, plants do not need balanced water. Balanced water is only needed by the plant to transport certain nutrients. Check out the chart:


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## JSB99 (Mar 17, 2018)

I think I'm going to drop down to 5.8 to take in more manganese, which is probably responsible for a few brown spots on the leaves of one of my girls.


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## Gardenator (Mar 17, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> You are way off on this! You might want to do a little more reading, and a little less giving advice, right now.
> 
> There are so many incorrect things with what you said, I'm not going to spend my time responding to them all.


If you dont balance the fresh water and the ph is wrong it effects the ph of the soil or media and nutrient lockout can occur even from watering with unbalanced water I have done plenty of homework on this that chart you posted doesn't mean shit if you plant is in lock out from the fresh water you give it. You should read more about the importanced of Ph balancing everything you give your plants soil or otherwise and you will notice a difference in overalll quality and taste of your bud if you dont velieve me do a micro grow and ph balance everything you give one and only the food you give the other leave the fresh water unbalanced and harvest dry cure them the same and see which one is better. You will inhibit the roots ability to retain water in general and slow the growth of your plant as well as the possability of nutrient lock out. Seriously its really important not paying attention to the ph of the fresh water you give ur ladies is bad advice bro check ur info


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## JSB99 (Mar 17, 2018)

Gardenator said:


> If you dont balance the fresh water and the ph is wrong it effects the ph of the soil or media and nutrient lockout can occur even from watering with unbalanced water I have done plenty of homework on this that chart you posted doesn't mean shit if you plant is in lock out from the fresh water you give it. You should read more about the importanced of Ph balancing everything you give your plants soil or otherwise and you will notice a difference in overalll quality and taste of your bud if you dont velieve me do a micro grow and ph balance everything you give one and only the food you give the other leave the fresh water unbalanced and harvest dry cure them the same and see which one is better. You will inhibit the roots ability to retain water in general and slow the growth of your plant as well as the possability of nutrient lock out. Seriously its really important not paying attention to the ph of the fresh water you give ur ladies is bad advice bro check ur info


You don't know what you're talking about! Some of what you say might apply to soil, with regards to changing the pH of the soil itself, but she is growing via Hydro! Nothing you stated has shit to do with hydro!

Stop giving bad advice, especially in my thread!


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## JSB99 (Mar 17, 2018)

Gardenator said:


> If you dont balance the fresh water and the ph is wrong it effects the ph of the soil or media and nutrient lockout can occur even from watering with unbalanced water I have done plenty of homework on this that chart you posted doesn't mean shit if you plant is in lock out from the fresh water you give it. You should read more about the importanced of Ph balancing everything you give your plants soil or otherwise and you will notice a difference in overalll quality and taste of your bud if you dont velieve me do a micro grow and ph balance everything you give one and only the food you give the other leave the fresh water unbalanced and harvest dry cure them the same and see which one is better. You will inhibit the roots ability to retain water in general and slow the growth of your plant as well as the possability of nutrient lock out. Seriously its really important not paying attention to the ph of the fresh water you give ur ladies is bad advice bro check ur info


And as far as getting nutrient lockout from plain water, you have no idea what the Hell you're talking about, and you're giving shitty advice!

Nutrient lockout is caused by too many nutrients, not from plain water. If you're referring to nutrient lockout due to pH shift, then you're missing the important point here! If there are no nutrients present, there are no nutrients to lock out! Therefor, you DO NOT need to balance the water!

Like it said, do much more learning, and much, much less trying to teach!

Read this - Nutrient Lockout


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## Gardenator (Mar 17, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> You don't know what you're talking about! Some of what you say might apply to soil, with regards to changing the pH of the soil itself, but she is growing via Hydro! Nothing you stated has shit to do with hydro!
> 
> Stop giving bad advice, especially in my thread!


You dont flush or feed plants in hydro un balanced water period. all I grow in is dwc I know what I am talking about listen to JSB if you want your roots to retain less water and lock out ur nutes. Seriously ph is one of the very most important things to consider when growing hydro. By the way all tap water has dissolved solids in the water which the roots will uptake even in fresh water most commonly found is calcium and iron both of which are important micro nutrients ur plants need along with traces of magnesium. Seriously if you dont think oh is important ou will kill your plants. Bad ph in dwc=plant death. Way less important in soil where soil acts as a buffer against too acidic of a solution or tap water. You are completely backwards to ph importantce between soil and hydro. In hydro the roots literally sit in the solution or the water to where soil buffers the acidic solution or water down before the root try to uptake he food or retain the water


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## JSB99 (Mar 17, 2018)

Gardenator said:


> If you dont balance the fresh water and the ph is wrong it effects the ph of the soil or media and nutrient lockout can occur even from watering with unbalanced water I have done plenty of homework on this that chart you posted doesn't mean shit if you plant is in lock out from the fresh water you give it. You should read more about the importanced of Ph balancing everything you give your plants soil or otherwise and you will notice a difference in overalll quality and taste of your bud if you dont velieve me do a micro grow and ph balance everything you give one and only the food you give the other leave the fresh water unbalanced and harvest dry cure them the same and see which one is better. You will inhibit the roots ability to retain water in general and slow the growth of your plant as well as the possability of nutrient lock out. Seriously its really important not paying attention to the ph of the fresh water you give ur ladies is bad advice bro check ur info


And on top of that, you're missing the point about watering with plain water, and flushing. Both are meant to remove excess nutrient salts. If you're flushing, why would you be worried about the plant's ability to absorb nutrients!


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## Gardenator (Mar 17, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> And as far as getting nutrient lockout from plain water, you have no idea what the Hell you're talking about, and you're giving shitty advice!
> 
> Nutrient lockout is caused by too many nutrients, not from plain water. If you're referring to nutrient lockout due to pH shift, then you're missing the important point here! If there are no nutrients present, there are no nutrients to lock out! Therefor, you DO NOT need to balance the water!
> 
> ...


Yo no nutes still equals bad water retention in ur roots, plants immune system can be weakened making it more likely to fall ill to disease and pests, there is so much thay ph affects in hydro I'm not wrong man I know it for a fact. Ph is important past nutrient solution your plant's roots live in when in a dwc even plain water effects these things because roots require the ph to stay optimal for more then just eating the minerals and salts you put into the water.


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## JSB99 (Mar 17, 2018)

Gardenator said:


> Yo no nutes still equals bad water retention in ur roots, plants immune system can be weakened making it more likely to fall ill to disease and pests, there is so much thay ph affects in hydro I'm not wrong man I know it for a fact. Ph is important past nutrient solution your plant's roots live in when in a dwc even plain water effects these things because roots require the ph to stay optimal for more then just eating the minerals and salts you put into the water.


Post some pics of your grow. BTW, you're not hurting anything by balancing plain water. It's just not needed!


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## Gardenator (Mar 17, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> And on top of that, you're missing the point about watering with plain water, and flushing. Both are meant to remove excess nutrient salts. If you're flushing, why would you be worried about the plant's ability to absorb nutrients!


Flushing in in balanced water still makes the root ability to one retain water to bring hydrogen and oxygen into the plant both of which are factors in the breakdown of the residual dissolved salts (aka nutrients left in the plant that you want to flush out). The plants roots need the right ph in the water even for flush because the dwc media is ur water and your roots will not drink enough water to aid in the essential proccess of breaking down the nutrients into sugars that the plant eats and uses for its resin production durring the end of its life. How can there not be nutrients if you are flushing them out of the plants think about it. So nope not worried about nute lock out but want the nutes to actually break down into sugars turn into resin production and flush out the nutrients still left in the stalks flowers and leaves of your plant so it taste like shit after the first drag. Dont ph the water and look at the salt build up in ur dwc container. You are wrong


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## Gardenator (Mar 17, 2018)

Sorry about the yellow from the hps but bloomers are 16 days old and the ladies look really nice I think. I can take some lights out photos later on tonight so you have a better idea of actual color.


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## PetFlora (Mar 17, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> There are a few reasons to keep mums in soil, not hydro
> 
> If your pump dies, or you have a power outage, plants in a DWC will start dying in as little as 15 minutes. The roots drown because there's no dissolved oxygen being added to the water.
> Growth, especially in veg, can be explosive with DWC. This can make it difficult to keep up with. Remember, along with the plants in your grow, you now have many more to attend to each day. It can become overwhelming.
> ...



6 of one, IMHO, if you screw up in soil, it;s too hard to flush out, whereas with hydro, you dump the nutes, flush, then make fresh nutes

As to mums and power failure with hydro, that's a good point, but roots can be pruned just like the plants


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## JSB99 (Mar 17, 2018)

Gardenator said:


> Sorry about the yellow from the hps but bloomers are 16 days old and the ladies look really nice I think. I can take some lights out photos later on tonight so you have a better idea of actual color. View attachment 4107237 View attachment 4107238 View attachment 4107239 View attachment 4107240 View attachment 4107241


Nice!

Like I said, balancing your water every time won't hurt anything, so it's not like we'd see it in your plants  . It's certainly better than people who don't feel the need to ever balance their water 

Happy growing


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## Gardenator (Mar 17, 2018)

Gardenator said:


> Flushing in in balanced water still makes the root ability to one retain water to bring hydrogen and oxygen into the plant both of which are factors in the breakdown of the residual dissolved salts (aka nutrients left in the plant that you want to flush out). The plants roots need the right ph in the water even for flush because the dwc media is ur water and your roots will not drink enough water to aid in the essential proccess of breaking down the nutrients into sugars that the plant eats and uses for its resin production durring the end of its life. How can there not be nutrients if you are flushing them out of the plants think about it. So nope not worried about nute lock out but want the nutes to actually break down into sugars turn into resin production and flush out the nutrients still left in the stalks flowers and leaves of your plant so it taste like shit after the first drag. Dont ph the water and look at the salt build up in ur dwc container. You are wrong


I appologise i shouldnt blatantly say you are wrong like that because IMO is really what I should say and I noticed a difference when i started phing my fresh water and the flush as i also didnt see how it was important but i was told otherwise and there really is viable research out there that will tell you why and how important it is for everything to be ph balanced for cannabis. It can be done without ph'ing the tap water when flushing but IMO you will like the taste and resin production in the last 2 weeks of flush if you ph the tap water you flush with.


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## JSB99 (Mar 17, 2018)

Gardenator said:


> I appologise i shouldnt blatantly say you are wrong like that because IMO is really what I should say and I noticed a difference when i started phing my fresh water and the flush as i also didnt see how it was important but i was told otherwise and there really is viable research out there that will tell you why and how important it is for everything to be ph balanced for cannabis. It can be done without ph'ing the tap water when flushing but IMO you will like the taste and resin production in the last 2 weeks of flush if you ph the tap water you flush with.


Nothin' wrong with that. Everyone's got their own style . If you feel what you're doing is making your plants grow better, then stick with it.


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## Cold$moke (Mar 17, 2018)

Ok so im not going to jump in mid way

But i will say your both right just not seeing eye to eye.

Yes ph is important

No your plants WONT DIE in plain water they will just grow like shit i know i do this when i go out of town to preserve my genetics when im away for work

This way my lady just had to keep filling them with water they will live for weeks and months lol
My well water is 180 ppm @7.5


Now gardenator is right imo in saying that when you give plain water for a flush you want it phed (i do)
That way the plant is still activly trying to metabolise everything in its self . If i read his stuff right i just scanned through

If you try to flush with un phed water i find it takes longer to get a fade. But i have done this also with no detrimental effects cause yea im a flusher lol

Nothing JSBB. Said is wrong either

Peace fellas


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## Jenniann04 (Mar 17, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> And as far as getting nutrient lockout from plain water, you have no idea what the Hell you're talking about, and you're giving shitty advice!
> 
> Nutrient lockout is caused by too many nutrients, not from plain water. If you're referring to nutrient lockout due to pH shift, then you're missing the important point here! If there are no nutrients present, there are no nutrients to lock out! Therefor, you DO NOT need to balance the water!
> 
> ...


Where is the love button!!! I got what ya ment JB!!!! Obviously if I’m flushing the ph won’t matter because it’s not taking in any nutes!  my baby though.... that chart is great for hydro. It always swings but it swings in the good! That is for the chart I saved it to reference it. I think the part he doesn’t understand is that you and I are talking between multiple threads lol!


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## Jenniann04 (Mar 17, 2018)

Gardenator said:


> Flushing in in balanced water still makes the root ability to one retain water to bring hydrogen and oxygen into the plant both of which are factors in the breakdown of the residual dissolved salts (aka nutrients left in the plant that you want to flush out). The plants roots need the right ph in the water even for flush because the dwc media is ur water and your roots will not drink enough water to aid in the essential proccess of breaking down the nutrients into sugars that the plant eats and uses for its resin production durring the end of its life. How can there not be nutrients if you are flushing them out of the plants think about it. So nope not worried about nute lock out but want the nutes to actually break down into sugars turn into resin production and flush out the nutrients still left in the stalks flowers and leaves of your plant so it taste like shit after the first drag. Dont ph the water and look at the salt build up in ur dwc container. You are wrong


From my understanding, the only thing that effects water absorption is light. The more light the more water. The only thing that effects the oxygen absorption is tempature of the water. If the temp is to low the dissolvable oxyegen is to low and if the water temp is to high it decreases dissolvable oxygen in the water massively. Doesn’t matter how much bubblers you have if the water can not absorb it. H2O2 helps with that. As far as I have ever known ph has nothing to do with absorbtion of water. I mean if it was so acidic and it damaged the roots I could see that due to acid.


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## JSB99 (Mar 17, 2018)

Jenniann04 said:


> Where is the love button!!! I got what ya ment JB!!!! Obviously if I’m flushing the ph won’t matter because it’s not taking in any nutes!  my baby though.... that chart is great for hydro. It always swings but it swings in the good! That is for the chart I saved it to reference it. I think the part he doesn’t understand is that you and I are talking between multiple threads lol!


It's all good


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## Gardenator (Mar 17, 2018)

Jenniann04 said:


> From my understanding, the only thing that effects water absorption is light. The more light the more water. The only thing that effects the oxygen absorption is tempature of the water. If the temp is to low the dissolvable oxyegen is to low and if the water temp is to high it decreases dissolvable oxygen in the water massively. Doesn’t matter how much bubblers you have if the water can not absorb it. H2O2 helps with that. As far as I have ever known ph has nothing to do with absorbtion of water. I mean if it was so acidic and it damaged the roots I could see that due to acid.


Light and temperature effect how much water the plants will consume, the more light and the hotter it is the more they will drink ( ambient temp of the air being hot) also the dryer the air or a low rH% value will also make the plants consume more water. These things have nothing to do with the roots ability to use the water its in. Those things just effect how much the plant will try to drink not how well it drinks. Listen if you dont want to ph the flush then dont my opinion is to balance everything you give your plant or they simply will not be as healthy as they could be. Fact is a fact that is you gave every single aspect cannabis needed perfectly at every stage of its life it would reach its maximum potential on yield right? Or that's the theory that cannot account for skill but lets say it wants everything to be perfect. That would probly include the media the roots live in and the roots directly effect how big a plant can even get or the flower it will produce then i would put my ladies roots in the perfectly optimal root zone and for hydro that is a nice 5.8 on ur ph pen or a nice piss yellow on the gen hydro ph testing fluid. Eather or not ur soil has ph in it it still has a ph of its own that needs to bbe adjusted and in dwc the water is the soil so to speak. Just food for thought


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## Cold$moke (Mar 17, 2018)

Jenniann04 said:


> Where is the love button!!! I got what ya ment JB!!!! Obviously if I’m flushing the ph won’t matter because it’s not taking in any nutes!  my baby though.... that chart is great for hydro. It always swings but it swings in the good! That is for the chart I saved it to reference it. I think the part he doesn’t understand is that you and I are talking between multiple threads lol!


Jsbb is correct on many points but dont think cause you are flushing your plant isnt takingin any nutes unless you are using ro water.

But as long as your plant is green there is "stuff" inside it


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## Jenniann04 (Mar 17, 2018)

I


Cold$moke said:


> Jsbb is correct on many points but dont think cause you are flushing your plant isnt takingin any nutes unless you are using ro water.
> 
> But as long as your plant is green there is "stuff" inside it


I’m using distilled water so it’s 0 ppm. I tested it to be a million percent sure, and ph was 6.98 I however didn’t rinse the roots because the plants were toooooooo heavy.


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## Cold$moke (Mar 17, 2018)

This is where peeps usually get wacky on the whole flushing thing in my opinion 

Is everyone thinks the flush is to get rid of excess nutrients in some cases yes if you have a heavy feeding hand.

But i feed lightly generally and i still flush .

Not because im overloaded with ferts but because i want all that nasty green chlorophyll to go bye bye .

This is why i say if your plant isnt faded when you chop its not going to be as tastey as if it where faded.

But this is just my oppinon 

Not a golden fact LOL as TONS of people here "do not flush"


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## Xs121 (Mar 18, 2018)

Cold$moke said:


> Not because im overloaded with ferts but because i want all that nasty green chlorophyll to go bye bye


In my next harvest, i'm gonna try girdling to get rid of chlorophyll and maybe get the gold coloration in the process too.


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## PetFlora (Mar 18, 2018)

Jenniann04 said:


> From my understanding, the only thing that effects water absorption is light. The more light the more water. The only thing that effects the oxygen absorption is tempature of the water. If the temp is to low the dissolvable oxyegen is to low and if the water temp is to high it decreases dissolvable oxygen in the water massively. Doesn’t matter how much bubblers you have if the water can not absorb it. H2O2 helps with that. As far as I have ever known ph has nothing to do with absorbtion of water. I mean if it was so acidic and it damaged the roots I could see that due to acid.


not exactly.. there is a relationship between high or low humidity and nutrient uptake


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## Gardenator (Mar 18, 2018)

PetFlora said:


> not exactly.. there is a relationship between high or low humidity and nutrient uptake


Yes but only through the top of the plant ( roots live in oxygenated water where they can draw on any amount they need until the solution is gone and how a low or high rh% affects this is because with a very low rh% value your plants will transpire more and uptake more water or solution to compensate for the lack of humidity in the air and when there is a very high rh% value in the air the plant cannot trasnpire as well as if it were in optimal range meaning the plant will not uptake anything because its left unable to breathe and sweat properly to cool itself as well as making it nearly impossible for the plant to photosynthesise properly. Check out plant transpiration and vapor pressure deficit as well as how it plays a more important roll then rh because vpd actually measure the airs ability to retain or hold moisture (how much and how efficiently a plant can also transpire and cool itself is greatly and directly effected by vpd but the plant only responds in its root zone according to the plants digestion needs An rh value with dwc is not ever talking about ur root zone relative humidity, they live in a bucket of water lol its wet in that bucket my guess is over 100% saturated with water.


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## PetFlora (Mar 18, 2018)




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## Gardenator (Mar 18, 2018)

PetFlora said:


>


This is a really great video and breaks vpd down really well in lamens terms while also teaching the scientific terminology. This one is way better at a nice crash into vpd then this ridiculously long video and article I read on it  thank you


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## Cold$moke (Mar 18, 2018)

Yep
Hes a funny fucker too


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## Jenniann04 (Mar 18, 2018)

Gardenator said:


> This is a really great video and breaks vpd down really well in lamens terms while also teaching the scientific terminology. This one is way better at a nice crash into vpd then this ridiculously long video and article I read on it  thank you


Ha thank you!!!! I will check it out


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## Beachwalker (Jun 3, 2018)

JSB99 said:


> Thanks! It's a little bit of work, and it can be really nerve-racking when you're chopping up your perfectly healthy plants over and over again! But after the first few times, you really become aware of just how hardy these plants are. They may not actually be a "weed", but they sure are persistent like them.
> 
> I might regrow the Gorilla Cookies, so that I can grow a shorter version of her. I've learned a lot, since I first started, and I think I can get some better results the second time around.
> 
> Stay tuned


Great info and pictures! And that link on the first page here to the bonsai mums thread was a good read as well (you've inspired me!) I've got several lanky girls still in their 6" pots that I've been holding back forever

I keep telling myself I'm going to get around to them, and this is it, I'm going to chop them all the way down tonite! (Tomorrow morning at the latest)

.. got clones going right now but I'm going to squeeze in a bubble cloner I made but have never used throw in as many tops as I can from my trimmings tonight and see if it works?! ( I clone in Rapid Rooters ) thanks again following both threads, good luck!


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