# Christianity has been debunked once and for all



## trishmybiscuits (Mar 25, 2008)

This one has been blistering-up the Internet. Christianity has been debunked once and for all:

The final debunking of Christianity


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## ZenMaster (Mar 28, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> This one has been blistering-up the Internet. Christianity has been debunked once and for all:
> 
> The final debunking of Christianity


Right...

That whole thing was ignorant and I pity whoever wrote it, and to who linked it.


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## pokey (Mar 28, 2008)

While I have my own issues with the Christian religion, I'll second what Zenmaster said. It's sad that so many religious and non religious entities have turned to what is essentially mudslinging in an effort to convert others to their point of view.

Also, personal rant: The US was founded on RELIGIOUS FREEDOM! Not Christianity. While some of the founding fathers (certainly not near all of them) may have been Christians, many were not, and they wanted to create a country where all religions were tolerated.


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## AverageJoe21 (Mar 28, 2008)

Thank God!


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## trishmybiscuits (Mar 30, 2008)

I read the piece and felt that it more than lives up to its title. Obviously Christians won't like it, but it clearly raises valid issues, makes very valid points.


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## nomoretrouble (Mar 30, 2008)

After reading that abortion of an editorial, i took the liberty of perusing a few of the other articles attributed to the "Unintimidated Press." The entire shoddy publication, if it can even be referred to as such, is a juvenile amalgamation of repetition and finger pointing based in illogical reasoning and, seemingly, the inability to put a stopper in stupidity. It offended my sensibilities as an educated person as well as a human being, and it is my personal opinion that the contributors should be gassed like the apes they present themselves to be.


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## Maccabee (Mar 30, 2008)

Waffles, anyone?

OMNOMNOMNOM


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## undertheice (Mar 31, 2008)

now i know that the article was a bit unsophisticated and tended to dwell on some rather petty points of logic, but that is precisely the point. religious belief depends entirely on a total denial of logic, at least a severe warping of any logic i am acquainted with. the very fact that the fate of one's immortal soul hangs on the ability to suspend disbelief seems to fly in the face of man's greatest gift, the ability to reason. i don't know that i'd call it mudslinging or even a real attempt to change anyone's mind, it seems more a simple statement and denial of one of the many mythologies that are tearing humanity apart.


i think i'll take a trip to ihop.


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## trishmybiscuits (Mar 31, 2008)

The piece clearly lives up to its title. Ultimately all it is is just a collection of simple facts. To those who have trashed it, I say be specific. Is there anything in it that you would care to dispute? Because ultimately that's the only thing that matters. Not whether people like the piece or not but whether they can dispute anything that's in it. Any takers?


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## undertheice (Mar 31, 2008)

the waffles were soggy, my eggs were runny and the coffee was as disgusting as usual.


trishmybiscuits said:


> .....Any takers?


the article's greatest fault is in its title. the concept behind most religion is the existence of an all-powerful deity, the mind of which no man could possibly understand. to attribute human reasoning to such a creature is an exercise in futility. there is always the fall back position that god's design is too complex for us to comprehend and that the decisions made were always in the best interests of humanity. when faced with the illogic of their faith a believer will usually end up citing the illusion of free will as the ultimate answer for why god is not more informative in his communications with us mere mortals, as if there were some holy version of the federation's prime directive. logic is no defense against the power of blind belief.


now, where should i go for lunch. today is my day to be very lazy and make a nuisance of myself on the boards.


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## nomoretrouble (Mar 31, 2008)

The entire work is hardly worth a response aside from shame that someone so bigoted and foolish as the author is a fellow human, and yet somehow i feel up to the challenge. Look for the update tomorrow, it'll be rather lengthy i imagine.


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## trishmybiscuits (Apr 1, 2008)

I just want to implore people to make up their own mind about the piece. A lot of the people who will judge it are Christians. Christians believe that every word of the Bible is true so therefore none of it can be questioned. It's impossible for those people to go in with an unbiased mind. That's why it's critical for people to make up their own mind.


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## FrostyTHEgrowmaN (Apr 1, 2008)

YouTube - Should This Video Be Banned? YOU DECIDE!


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## Maccabee (Apr 1, 2008)

The title of the piece was probably not well-advised. 

How do you 'debunk' religious faith? Contradictions, historical inaccuracies, scientific rejoinders, rigorous philosophical examination of laws and commandments, etc. may perturb the faithful but are unlikely to cause them to set aside their most deeply held convictions. 

The 'essay' is preaching to the choir. As it were. It's more or less as ideological as any religious dogma.


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## gotdamunchies (Apr 1, 2008)

The most true statement in that whole rant was the last sentence....decisions about religion should be made as adults, not by brainwashed children.

*After they become adults if they decide at that point in time that they want to become delusional then that's their prerogative.*


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## Cannabolic (Apr 1, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> This one has been blistering-up the Internet. Christianity has been debunked once and for all:
> 
> The final debunking of Christianity


 

wow, ok. at first the article made a valid point about ppl shoveling religion down other ppls throats. im Christain and i also believe that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. however, then you started to go into a rant about why you don't believe in christanity, and baicly calling christians morons for believing in god and jesus christ, and thats what im going to talk about now.

first and foremost you forget to realize that god is GOD, not a human, not a mortal, he is GOD so in jew-christian belief, he can do anything. and there is no time limit or any fault to his power. Secondly i do believe Jesus was the son of god because in the bible it says we are ALL gods children so by thecnicality he was the son of god. and even if he was just a normal person, its not the whole powers of a god thing but the morals and princibles he taught us is why we praise him. he taught us to love our fellow man and be good to each other. so even if he was muslim, hindu or athiest, i'd honor that man because of the way he was. Judging by your article I assume your not christian, so i don't expect you to understand. thirdly I have to say that nobody that is alive today was there 2000 years ago so nobody knows what happend, so you can't say what Jesus did or did not do.the man lived 34 years, im sure that not everything he said was in the bible. and also about the Devil, if you did your research you would know that the Imgage of the devil thats red and horns, is the imagination of early humans. the origan satan is a fallen angel, who was said to be the most beautiful angel in heaven. so why would Satan look like a monster? And with the whole dinosaur thing, the first man Named adam, wassent on earth persay, he was in the garden of eden, a isolated topia made just for him. and in genisis god told adam that he would only die if he ate the forbidden fruit. so whoes to say how long the man lived in eden befor he ate the fruit. dinosaurs could of lived and died out befor he ate the fruit. but nobody knows cuz we were not there. all im saying is you talk about Christian logic, but your logic lacks stability aswell. as an american i feel that the religious system in our government is just fine because this country was BUILT on the belief of god, so it should remain the way it is. to change that you would be changing the consititution and the rights of millions of americans and the purpose in which so many ppl have died to secure durring the revoulutionary war. thats like me going to Iraq and saying "yo i don't believe in you guy's religion, and i don't think its right your saying praise Alah all the time, so i think you should stop it". Every country has its Main religion and language, and to stop that would be highly immoral. i believe amarica should stay the way it is and let ppl who don't practice christanity practice their own religion if they wanted to. I also believe that we should keep state and religion seprate because there are so many kinds of religions in public schools and its not fair to alot of ppl to be praying in a school where some ppl might not believe in the same god. 


im just going to leave you with this seeing how i made my peace. Seeing isent believing, Believing is seeing. and everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, even you. you talk about christains pushing their beliefs on other ppl, but by ranting about how much bullshit christainity is, you pretty much did the same thing as the ppl you dispize so much. Also you said Christians as in ALL christians push religion on ppl but I havent nor will i ever try to force somebody to believe in god. so keep that in mind the next time you rant about somthing.


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## Cannabolic (Apr 1, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> I just want to implore people to make up their own mind about the piece. A lot of the people who will judge it are Christians. Christians believe that every word of the Bible is true so therefore none of it can be questioned. It's impossible for those people to go in with an unbiased mind. That's why it's critical for people to make up their own mind.


why do some ppl who are not christains think that all christians are the same? are all ppl the same? it cracks me up sterotyping at its finest. alot of ppl, if not all ppl question the bible at one point in their life, espicially growing up. and as you get older you come up with your own interpretation on the subject. i believe in god, and in jesus and i try to live and serve god the best way i can, but that dosnt mean i don't question some things in the bible.


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## shamegame (Apr 1, 2008)

The person who wrote that article has obviously never taken any logic or philosophy courses. Many of the arguments in it were written with a child-like understanding of the world. The religious world stands unshaken.


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## trishmybiscuits (Apr 1, 2008)

First, Cannabolic, I'm not the one who wrote the piece. Wish I was, but I'm not.

Second, shamegame, apparently when you read the piece you missed that the author relies on facts to make his points, not logic or philosophy. For instance, some of the facts noted, but not limited to, are:

Fact: Everything we know about Jesus is hearsay
Fact: Jesus didn't exhibit any knowledge of the natural world
Fact: Hindis, Muslims and Budhists don't believe Jesus was the son of God
Fact: The Christian god would have to cast judgment on people at the rate of almost two people per second
Fact: The Christian god cannot make himself visible in the here and now, in realtime, for everyone's eyes to see
Fact: The only evidence for the Christian god is supposedly some people who thousands of years ago supposedly heard a voice.

No logic or philosophy needed!


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## 40acres (Apr 1, 2008)

Cannabolic said:


> wow, ok. at first the article made a valid point about ppl shoveling religion down other ppls throats. im Christain and i also believe that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. however, then you started to go into a rant about why you don't believe in christanity, and baicly calling christians morons for believing in god and jesus christ, and thats what im going to talk about now.
> 
> first and foremost you forget to realize that god is GOD, not a human, not a mortal, he is GOD so in jew-christian belief, he can do anything. and there is no time limit or any fault to his power. Secondly i do believe Jesus was the son of god because in the bible it says we are ALL gods children so by thecnicality he was the son of god. and even if he was just a normal person, its not the whole powers of a god thing but the morals and princibles he taught us is why we praise him. he taught us to love our fellow man and be good to each other. so even if he was muslim, hindu or athiest, i'd honor that man because of the way he was. Judging by your article I assume your not christian, so i don't expect you to understand. thirdly I have to say that nobody that is alive today was there 2000 years ago so nobody knows what happend, so you can't say what Jesus did or did not do.the man lived 34 years, im sure that not everything he said was in the bible. and also about the Devil, if you did your research you would know that the Imgage of the devil thats red and horns, is the imagination of early humans. the origan satan is a fallen angel, who was said to be the most beautiful angel in heaven. so why would Satan look like a monster? And with the whole dinosaur thing, the first man Named adam, wassent on earth persay, he was in the garden of eden, a isolated topia made just for him. and in genisis god told adam that he would only die if he ate the forbidden fruit. so whoes to say how long the man lived in eden befor he ate the fruit. dinosaurs could of lived and died out befor he ate the fruit. but nobody knows cuz we were not there. all im saying is you talk about Christian logic, but your logic lacks stability aswell. as an american i feel that the religious system in our government is just fine because this country was BUILT on the belief of god, so it should remain the way it is. to change that you would be changing the consititution and the rights of millions of americans and the purpose in which so many ppl have died to secure durring the revoulutionary war. thats like me going to Iraq and saying "yo i don't believe in you guy's religion, and i don't think its right your saying praise Alah all the time, so i think you should stop it". Every country has its Main religion and language, and to stop that would be highly immoral. i believe amarica should stay the way it is and let ppl who don't practice christanity practice their own religion if they wanted to. I also believe that we should keep state and religion seprate because there are so many kinds of religions in public schools and its not fair to alot of ppl to be praying in a school where some ppl might not believe in the same god.
> 
> ...


 You need to get high bro.


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## Maccabee (Apr 1, 2008)

Cannabolic said:


> first and foremost you forget to realize that god is GOD, not a human, not a mortal, he is GOD so in jew-christian belief


Judeo-Christian. And that's better expressed as Wesetern Monotheistic--Islam is part of the 'Judeo-Christian' tradition, and Muslims worship the same God. 



> , he can do anything. and there is no time limit or any fault to his power.


You're making broad statements that not even all prominent Christian theologians throughout history would agree with. Go check out the Deists, or the notion of a "clockmaker God" who creates, puts the creation into motion, and then steps back. 



> Secondly i do believe Jesus was the son of god because in the bible it says we are ALL gods children so by thecnicality he was the son of god.


So are you going to worship me as the Son of God? Your earnestness is commendable, and you have a right to be offended by the essay, but you're making terrible arguments. It would be better and more convincing to simply respond with a profession of faith. 



> and even if he was just a normal person, its not the whole powers of a god thing but the morals and princibles he taught us is why we praise him. he taught us to love our fellow man and be good to each other. so even if he was muslim, hindu or athiest, i'd honor that man because of the way he was.


This sounded good....



> Judging by your article I assume your not christian, so i don't expect you to understand.


....but this directly contradicts it and demonstrates that you don't really feel that way even though you know it's the 'correct' view. 



> thirdly I have to say that nobody that is alive today was there 2000 years ago so nobody knows what happend, so you can't say what Jesus did or did not do.


Archeology can tell us certain things. Locations of cities, distances vs. time, how people lived. Such information is very important even to Biblical scholars so they can understand parts of the Bible that make reference to people, places and events that have been lost to history. 



> the man lived 34 years, im sure that not everything he said was in the bible. and also about the Devil, if you did your research you would know that the Imgage of the devil thats red and horns, is the imagination of early humans. the origan satan is a fallen angel, who was said to be the most beautiful angel in heaven. so why would Satan look like a monster? And with the whole dinosaur thing, the first man Named adam, wassent on earth persay, he was in the garden of eden, a isolated topia made just for him. and in genisis god told adam that he would only die if he ate the forbidden fruit. so whoes to say how long the man lived in eden befor he ate the fruit. dinosaurs could of lived and died out befor he ate the fruit. but nobody knows cuz we were not there.


You know, you're mixing up the Old Testament, the Gospels, Milton's _Paradise Lost _and Dante's _Inferno_ here. 

And there are a lot of Christians that would tell you that believing anything could have existed before Adam and Eve is blasphemous and that carbon dating of the Earth and the fossil record are all either Satanic trickery or a test of faith. 



> all im saying is you talk about Christian logic, but your logic lacks stability aswell. as an american i feel that the religious system in our government is just fine because this country was BUILT on the belief of god, so it should remain the way it is.


Would you feel that way if our laws were grounded in Islamic _sharia_ rather than the Deist sensibilities of our Framers, or in a dogmatic atheism? No, you would agitate for change. 



> to change that you would be changing the consititution and the rights of millions of americans and the purpose in which so many ppl have died to secure durring the revoulutionary war.


To suggest that what John Ashcroft and his ilk represent is in keeping with what the Framers and the revolutionary generation wanted for this country is a farce. They wanted religion kept out of politics for a reason: it was being used to oppress them by the Crown. The same thing happens in our society when we go too far in relaxing the separation of church and state. 



> thats like me going to Iraq and saying "yo i don't believe in you guy's religion, and i don't think its right your saying praise Alah all the time, so i think you should stop it". Every country has its Main religion and language, and to stop that would be highly immoral.


Wrong. Not every country has single state religion--in fact the United States does not. By Constitutional decree. And the linkage you make to language is telling. Guess what: not every has a single national language either. In fact: the United States does not have an official language. By law. 

You need to study these things and do a little bit of research before you start spouting off. 



> i believe amarica should stay the way it is and let ppl who don't practice christanity practice their own religion if they wanted to. I also believe that we should keep state and religion seprate because there are so many kinds of religions in public schools and its not fair to alot of ppl to be praying in a school where some ppl might not believe in the same god.


That's good to hear, and that's the most important thing.



> im just going to leave you with this seeing how i made my peace. Seeing isent believing, Believing is seeing. and everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, even you.


How generous of you. Are you not seeing the double standard here? 'We' are no more or less entitled to our views than 'you' are. 'Even' has no place in that sentence. 



> you talk about christains pushing their beliefs on other ppl, but by ranting about how much bullshit christainity is, you pretty much did the same thing as the ppl you dispize so much. Also you said Christians as in ALL christians push religion on ppl but I havent nor will i ever try to force somebody to believe in god.


There is a heavy emphasis on evangelism in many forms Christianity. You may not engage in it, and generalizing is never wise, but it's fair for people's perception of the religion to be colored by _their_ experience of its adherents.


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## Maccabee (Apr 1, 2008)

Cannabolic said:


> why do some ppl who are not christains think that all christians are the same? are all ppl the same? it cracks me up sterotyping at its finest. alot of ppl, if not all ppl question the bible at one point in their life, espicially growing up. and as you get older you come up with your own interpretation on the subject. i believe in god, and in jesus and i try to live and serve god the best way i can, but that dosnt mean i don't question some things in the bible.


There are a lot of Biblical fundamentalists out there, and they are quite prominent in the national debates over social issues. You seem to be confusing global stereotyping with an honest reaction to the beliefs of an increasingly prominent and influential element of the Christian population in the United States. Mike Huckabee would be a good example. He seems reasonable enough, but thinks the Earth is only thousands of years old and that dinosaurs are just fossils put here so we can have gas. 

C'mon. The fact that someone who doesn't believe in evolution could have been President scares a lot of people, and that's legitimate.


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## trishmybiscuits (Apr 2, 2008)

Maccabee makes some great points here.


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## Cannabolic (Apr 2, 2008)

Maccabee said:


> Judeo-Christian. And that's better expressed as Wesetern Monotheistic--Islam is part of the 'Judeo-Christian' tradition, and Muslims worship the same God.
> 
> You're making broad statements that not even all prominent Christian theologians throughout history would agree with. Go check out the Deists, or the notion of a "clockmaker God" who creates, puts the creation into motion, and then steps back.
> 
> ...


1. yea judeo-christian sounds better
2. i don't know anything about a clockmaster god but i was told in church that the Lord's powers are unlimited.
3.no im not going to worship you, what i mean to say is jesus said he was the sun of god in the new testiment but if you read the old testiment that through adam and eve we are all god's children. so even if he wassent a direct son of god, he was still a son of god becase we all are.
4.it dosen't matter who studies what. None of us where there so really we are all just guessing and going by things that were passed down from that time.
5. im not mixing up anything, in fact i was trying to put the pieces back for the dude. he said theat the devil looked like a monster with red horns, well in the bible satan is a beautiful angel, i've even seen pictures in church of satan and they never looked liked that. now with dante's infurno, i was saying that he might of got that image form that book because Dante was one of the first to create a monstorus image of the fallen angel.
6.it says right in the bible that things lived befor adam and eve. he made everything befor he created adam, so how could ppl not believe that?
7. yes, it wouldnt matter to me what was the main religion , as long as they gave me the freedom to practice my own aswell.
8. the revolutionary generation wanted the freedom to practice their own religion, as the pilgrims befor them. but this country was built on the belief in god and the right to be free. hence "in god we trust" and "under god". now im not saying the revolutionary war was like the crusades but a big spark in the hearts of the patriots was the belief in god.
9.no actually your wrong, every country-state has a major language and religion in which they practice. there might be other language and religions in that area, but if you took all the languages and religions and mate a pie graph, you would notice that there would be a language or religion that took up majority of the pie. every place has its own prevailing religion. in fact here is a chart to show you Image:Worldreligion.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
10. when i said "even" i wassn't emplying that I have more rights then he does i was tryin to say even someone who is a non believer has the same rights as everyone else.
11. i don't know any christians like that, maybe somewhere up in Idaho somewhere but not here. I understand that there are some real assholes in the world but no matter what the writter when through, he can't say that ALLchristains are bible waving maniacs. obveously be both have some angry passionate views on the topic and thats what always happends when you talk about religion in such a diverse space. He is entitled to his opinion, all im saying is he made a good point until he started ranting about why he dosen't believe that jesus was the sun of god. also i don't think you can debunk religion. and reguardless to what type of scientific statement you make on any religion, there will always be an arguing party. thats all 

Love, peace, and hair grease


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## Cannabolic (Apr 2, 2008)

Maccabee said:


> There are a lot of Biblical fundamentalists out there, and they are quite prominent in the national debates over social issues. You seem to be confusing global stereotyping with an honest reaction to the beliefs of an increasingly prominent and influential element of the Christian population in the United States. Mike Huckabee would be a good example. He seems reasonable enough, but thinks the Earth is only thousands of years old and that dinosaurs are just fossils put here so we can have gas.
> 
> C'mon. The fact that someone who doesn't believe in evolution could have been President scares a lot of people, and that's legitimate.


why do i have to be confused, why can't I just be strait? im not confused about a damn thing. I am saying that there are some ppl who arn't christains or religious at all who think that all christains wanna stuff a bible down your throat. in fact christainty in the states isent getting more prominent its getting less prominent. back in the days, in the U.S. ppl either went to church or they didn't, but if they didn't they still believed in god. but now there are thousands if not millions of ppl in the U.S. who aren't christian. again im not confusing anything i kno exactly whats going on. and that is a common sterotype, and i know a thing or 2 about sterotypes.
P.S. it dosn't matter what the president believes in religiously(keep religion and state seprate) all that matters is if he/she can do a good job running the country. i hope to see a jewish or muslim president one day, that would mean we are braking down racial barriers.


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## Cannabolic (Apr 2, 2008)

40acres said:


> You need to get high bro.


i was, thats the problem lol.


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## Maccabee (Apr 2, 2008)

Cannabolic said:


> 1. yea judeo-christian sounds better


OK. It's still less accurate. 



> 2. i don't know anything about a clockmaster god but i was told in church that the Lord's powers are unlimited.


Which means that God could chose to place limits on how the divine interacts with the mundane, placing a heavier responsibility upon man to self govern, honor humanity and lovingly maintain the created world, rather then relying on God to sort it all out. 

Tikkun olam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -- in Judaism, this concept has been behind a big movement towards ecological good works and environmentalism.

Different flavors of Christianity also have different views of God's nature and how God interacts with humanity and the world, and Deism is one of them. 

If you're interested in the clockmaker god concept or Deism: 
The "clockmaker God:"
Watchmaker analogy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is actually the philosophical underpinnings of the Intelligent Design theory, which isn't all that unappealing even to secularists if you drop the nonsense about denying evolution, and allow that the recorders of the Scripture simply might not have been able to perceive much a distinction between thousands of years and anything more. 

Deism, more generally:
Deism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> Deists typically reject supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and tend to assert that God does not intervene with the affairs of human life and the laws of the universe. What organized religions see as divine revelation and holy books, most deists see as interpretations made by other humans, rather than as authoritative sources. Deists believe that God's greatest gift to humanity is not religion, but the ability to reason.
> Deism became prominent in the 17th and 18th centuries during the Age of Enlightenment, especially in The United Kingdom, France, and The United States of America, mostly among those raised as Christians who found they could not believe in either a triune God, the divinity of Jesus, miracles, or the inerrancy of scriptures, but who did believe in one God. Initially it did not form any congregations, but in time deism led to the development of other religious groups, particularly the Unitarians. It continues to this day in the form of Classical Deism and Modern Deism.


OK, moving on....



> 3.no im not going to worship you, what i mean to say is jesus said he was the sun of god in the new testiment but if you read the old testiment that through adam and eve we are all god's children. so even if he wassent a direct son of god, he was still a son of god becase we all are.


Yes, although the understanding that we are all descendants of Adam hasn't kept believers from killing 'heathens' in the name of God, nor has knowledge that other followers of the One God are all (metaphorically) children of Abraham kept zelaots from slaughtering 'infidels' of other sects.



> 4.it dosen't matter who studies what. None of us where there so really we are all just guessing and going by things that were passed down from that time.


OK, let's never study anything we can't be sure of. Back to the Dark Ages, everyone!



> 5. im not mixing up anything, in fact i was trying to put the pieces back for the dude. he said theat the devil looked like a monster with red horns, well in the bible satan is a beautiful angel, i've even seen pictures in church of satan and they never looked liked that. now with dante's infurno, i was saying that he might of got that image form that book because Dante was one of the first to create a monstorus image of the fallen angel.


The story of Satan's fall--angels warring in heaven and whatnot-- comes mostly from Paradise Lost, as does the archetype of Lucifer Morningstar which seems to be the conception of the devil you think is 'authoritative.' According to Jewish scripture, Sa'tan was a minor angel and was not particularly important even after his fall from grace. The New Testament focuses on Satan as the generic figure of the Tempter and the Adversary. You seem to be describing the Miltonian expansion upon the Biblical sources which is perfectly normal because _Paradise Lost_ is deeply embedded in the Lutheran tradition and all of the forms of Protestantism that descended from it. There's nothing wrong with that, either! It was written by a deeply religious man for a religious audience. 



> 6.it says right in the bible that things lived befor adam and eve. he made everything befor he created adam, so how could ppl not believe that?


It says he did it in a matter of days. Literal readers of the Bible take that to mean that everything in the fossil record that pre-dates the time frame given for Creation must have been Created that way for some reason and never have actually lived. Or, that they fossil record is somehow wrong and that man and prehistoric creatures co-existed until the Flood. 



> 7. yes, it wouldnt matter to me what was the main religion , as long as they gave me the freedom to practice my own aswell.


I find that hard to swallow, but it's a very nice sentiment. I'll tell you that even as a non-observant Jew, it's a lot harder when the shoe is on the other foot. Things are pretty miserable in the US for Muslims right now, even though their religious rights are protected. Don't underestimate how being part of the rather devout majority can alter your perspective. 



> 8. the revolutionary generation wanted the freedom to practice their own religion, as the pilgrims befor them. but this country was built on the belief in god and the right to be free. hence "in god we trust" and "under god". now im not saying the revolutionary war was like the crusades but a big spark in the hearts of the patriots was the belief in god.


That's true. But they wanted God out of politics itself. 


> 9.no actually your wrong, every country-state has a major language and religion in which they practice. there might be other language and religions in that area, but if you took all the languages and religions and mate a pie graph, you would notice that there would be a language or religion that took up majority of the pie. every place has its own prevailing religion. in fact here is a chart to show you Image:Worldreligion.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I said _official, _not _main_. We don't have an official state religion or language. 

Languages of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> The United States does not have an official language..........


English is spoken by ~82% of the US population. A 20% composition of linguistic minorities is significant. 

Our religious demographics are even more diverse. And a 'major religion' is hardly a 'state religion.' Some coutries have very narrow religious splits--in a 45/55 split, is the religion with 55% percent the 'main' religion?



> 10. when i said "even" i wassn't emplying that I have more rights then he does i was tryin to say even someone who is a non believer has the same rights as everyone else.


Cool. But you just did it again. Don't say 'even'. What's wrong with:
"I was trying to say someone who is a non believer has the same rights as everyone else." That use of 'even' implies that you are 'willing to allow' their participation despite their 'lack.' Well, that's nice...I could say "even religious people have a right to vote." Does that sound very tolerant?



> 11. i don't know any christians like that, maybe somewhere up in Idaho somewhere but not here.


So, now you want to generalize about Christianity in a region not your own...



> I understand that there are some real assholes in the world but no matter what the writter when through, he can't say that ALLchristains are bible waving maniacs. obveously be both have some angry passionate views on the topic and thats what always happends when you talk about religion in such a diverse space. He is entitled to his opinion, all im saying is he made a good point until he started ranting about why he dosen't believe that jesus was the sun of god.


I'm not trying to defend the article, I'm just trying to get you to examine your own thinking. 



> also i don't think you can debunk religion. and reguardless to what type of scientific statement you make on any religion, there will always be an arguing party. thats all


I agree completely. Trying to debunk religion misses the point entirely. 



> Love, peace, and hair grease


Back at'cha.


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## Maccabee (Apr 2, 2008)

Cannabolic said:


> why do i have to be confused, why can't I just be strait? im not confused about a damn thing. I am saying that there are some ppl who arn't christains or religious at all who think that all christains wanna stuff a bible down your throat.


That's because some/most of them do.
Evangelism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> Evangelism is done in obedience to the Great Commission, a command from Jesus to his disciples to proselytize, as recorded in the New Testament.


That's why. 

It's fairly similar to the Muslim call to Jihad--which originally meant _spiritual_ warfare in the sense of the struggle to save souls--not necessarily by the sword. So too did Christians abuse the Commission to justify the Crusades. 

Anyway, the point is that Christians and Muslims are explicitly commanded to convert non-believers. (Jews are not, trying to convert to Judaism is difficult.)




> in fact christainty in the states isent getting more prominent its getting less prominent. back in the days, in the U.S. ppl either went to church or they didn't, but if they didn't they still believed in god. but now there are thousands if not millions of ppl in the U.S. who aren't christian.


Actually, religiosity and church attendance is exploding right now. Look at whats going on with Rick Warren & _The Purpose Driven Life, _Joel Osteen's huge ministry, etc. Pentecostalism is exploding in the United States and abroad. 

Do you want me to provide sources? I don't want to be too pedantic. I'm not trying to jump all over your case. 



> again im not confusing anything i kno exactly whats going on. and that is a common sterotype, and i know a thing or 2 about sterotypes.


Sadly, most of us do. You're absolutely right that religious people are stereotyped just as harshly as atheists and agnostics. 



> P.S. it dosn't matter what the president believes in religiously(keep religion and state seprate) all that matters is if he/she can do a good job running the country. i hope to see a jewish or muslim president one day, that would mean we are braking down racial barriers.


I don't believe that someone who thinks that science is a myth or an illusion can be a good President. I don't believe that someone who thinks the Constitution should be amended to impose religious morality upon the public can be a good President. 

I'll stop there, I think that gets the point across. We've certainly had religious men as President in the past who did a great job.


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## Yahweh (Apr 2, 2008)

1. Everything about jesus WAS hearsay NOT one historian of that time even says anything about jesus, why is this? someone who turns water to wine..and NOTHING?
2. Jews don't believe that jesus is (godson) 
3. Another thing is The Christian Bible has been changed soo many times how can you believe anything in it?
4. Christians believe the bible word for word jews know its all metaphors

sorry, im jewish thought id throw my 2 cents in.
for all you people who dont beilve in a GOD, YHWH, Yahweh, Yehova whatever you want to call your CREATOR should check out zeitgiest the movie.

keep on burnin 



trishmybiscuits said:


> Fact: Everything we know about Jesus is hearsay
> Fact: Hindis, Muslims and Budhists don't believe Jesus was the son of God
> Fact: The Christian god would have to cast judgment on people at the rate of almost two people per second
> Fact: The Christian god cannot make himself visible in the here and now, in realtime, for everyone's eyes to see
> ...


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## shamegame (Apr 2, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> Second, shamegame, apparently when you read the piece you missed that the author relies on facts to make his points, not logic or philosophy. For instance, some of the facts noted, but not limited to, are:
> 
> Fact: Everything we know about Jesus is hearsay
> Fact: Jesus didn't exhibit any knowledge of the natural world
> ...


I understand what the author was saying ( and sometimes trying to say ). But honestly, the article reads as if it was written by a 14 year old. And look at the web page it's on. It looks like " my first website ". And this is supposedly " burning up the internet " ?...and has " once and for all debunked " Christianity ? It does make the obvious points though. My comment about the logic and philosophy classes was aimed more at the way the article was written as opposed to the content.


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## Moragrifa (Apr 2, 2008)

This article is ridiculously poorly written. No it does not bring up valid points at all. I'm not a bible swinger, but that book has NEVER been proven wrong. The bible has foreshadows things like Tv's and other pieces of technology that wasn't even close to existing at the time it was written. 

A valid point that contradicts Christianity would be something a scientist has to say, for example: The universe is still expanding and we can monitor its growth.

That true statement refers more to the theory of the "Big Bang" instead of Creationism. 

If you want to read articles that are interesting go to Marijuana Law Reform - NORML.

'Nuff said.


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## trishmybiscuits (Apr 4, 2008)

I've got news for everyone. Just the one point alone that the piece makes, that Jesus exhibited zero knowledge of the natural world, is the absolute knockout blow to any notion that Jesus was the son of a supreme being that created the universe and all life. Particularly when one considers that Jesus and the being were supposedly one in the same. That's like saying that the being who created the natural world didn't know a damn thing about what in the hell it was that he created. Yeah, right!

Any intelligent person (I repeat, any intelligent person) would know that Jesus' followers would've had questions for him about the natural world if they truly believed he was the son of the being that created it. So, any intelligent person would know, therefore, that it's a very valid point to make that Jesus had zero knowledge of the natural world. The absolute knockout blow!!!


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## KAOSOWNER (Apr 4, 2008)

Give us some solid evidence that jesus diddnt exist or even that he wasnt the son of God. I dont have to see to believe but i will need some evidence in the contrary to not


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## Maccabee (Apr 4, 2008)

Give me some solid evidence that Zeus, Quetzalcoatl, aliens, bigfoot, and the Loch Ness monster don't exist. 

I don't have to see to believe but I will need some evidence in the contrary to not.


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## KAOSOWNER (Apr 4, 2008)

I think there are aliens too, big foots maybe zeus yeah right and loch ness fuck no


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## Maccabee (Apr 4, 2008)

You take my point. Why should we assume the less probable case by default? Prove to me that Christ _was_ divine. Proof--mind you--not fairy tales. We can _prove_ the age of the planet.


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## mastakoosh (Apr 4, 2008)

i didnt read the article cuz me not like dem reeding tings 2 much. but may god bless!!!!


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## KAOSOWNER (Apr 4, 2008)

See i dont have to prove because i have faith that is why it is up to you sceptcs to prove. My proof is simple me and you, explain humans and animals and how they got here. I can say for a fact that there is no solid scientific explanation for humans so how can they debunk God. You are way off base with this one and there is no argument here because either way you have no solid facts to prove God doesnt exist or how this earth got here.


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## Maccabee (Apr 4, 2008)

You don't see the similarities? Or the contradiction? You want me to disprove the existence of your imaginary friend. 

Humans and animals evolved from other, earlier animals, metazoa, protozoa, etc. There is a scientific theory for how we got here: the Big Bang and evolution. 

We do have evidence that supports those theories. Now, that doesn't mean that God didn't create the universe in which those things took place, or didn't set them into motion. 

God isn't something you prove or disprove. God is something that you believe, or you don't. However, to declare that God exists unless God can be disproved is both ignorant and arrogant--arrogant both in that it assumes the divine is comprehensible to science, and that otherwise scientific knowledge is worthless. 

You're the one who's way off base. It's possible to be both thoughtful and religious but, as usual, this thread demonstrates the rarity of that combination in this day and age. It's a pity, because that used to be the rule and not the exception.


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## hearmenow (Apr 4, 2008)

I found the tirade hysterical. It was clearly written by someone who lacked clear understanding of how to write a treatise, which this is supposed to be. I found myself laughing out loud at the blatant distortions and flat out fabrications. I am a strong believer in freedom of thought and speech but if you are going to attack one of the main 3 religions, at least spend the time to do some quality research to support your assertions. Also, as I read on and on, he lost credibility with each sentence, with his use of superlatives and absolutes such as this gem "It's the Christians who go around trying to persecute everyone else all the time". And that was just the 3rd sentence in the tirade. LOL. I came away with the impression that this was written by someone with a highschool education at best.

This was a humorous read on a slow and boring Friday. Thanks for that, at least.


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## Maccabee (Apr 4, 2008)

Yeah, the article itself is rather terrible. It's just a diatribe and does more to distort the discussion than anything else.


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## KAOSOWNER (Apr 4, 2008)

Well i guess i am arrogant then because i am not taking your point of view, I believe in God and there is no way i would even consider such a pile of shit as the big bang theory, what a joke !!!


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## trishmybiscuits (Apr 4, 2008)

shamegame said:


> I understand what the author was saying ( and sometimes trying to say ). But honestly, the article reads as if it was written by a 14 year old. And look at the web page it's on. It looks like " my first website ". And this is supposedly " burning up the internet " ?...and has " once and for all debunked " Christianity ? It does make the obvious points though. My comment about the logic and philosophy classes was aimed more at the way the article was written as opposed to the content.


Shamegame, it's clear to me that you judged the piece going in with anything but an unbiased and open mind. You judged the piece on the basis of everything and anything except the main thing: Its content. That point was proven when you went off on a tangent and even started attacking the Unintimidated Press. You clearly were judging the piece based on some preconceived notions about the Unintimidated Press. You even had the audacity to drag NORML into the debate. What in the hell does NORML have to do with a discussion the nature of which this thread is based on?

You come across to me as being a person who has a lot of prejudices. You clearly judged the piece through the prism of your own prejudices. Until you can demonstrate that you can go in with an unbiased and open mind and judge the piece the way it should be judged, and that is from a purely objective standpoint, it would constitute a waste of my time to continue debating it with you.

By the way, you said you went to the Web site of the Unintimidated Press. When you were there did you read the second link down on the homepage? You might want to give it a read. In fact, it's probably even better than the Christianity piece!


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## trishmybiscuits (Apr 4, 2008)

It needs to be reiterated for people to make up their own minds when judging the piece. Clearly, many of those who have posted to this thread have all sorts of prejudices and biases going in (I suspect many are Christians). This point is proven by the fact that these individuals spend most of their time doing nothing more than attacking the messenger or calling the piece names like, "tirade," "rant," etc... What you don't see, however, is anyone successfully disputing anything in the piece. In fact, many of the responses to this thread just flat-right-out border on immature.

The title of the piece is "The Final Debunking Of Chritianity." That's what it is. That's what it does! Deal with it!!!


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## Maccabee (Apr 4, 2008)

IRONY said:


> Well i guess i am arrogant then because i am not taking your point of view, I believe in science and there is no way i would even consider such a pile of shit as the immaculate conception, what a joke !!!


Fixed it for you.


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## trishmybiscuits (Apr 4, 2008)

hearmenow said:


> I found the tirade hysterical. It was clearly written by someone who lacked clear understanding of how to write a treatise, which this is supposed to be. I found myself laughing out loud at the blatant distortions and flat out fabrications. I am a strong believer in freedom of thought and speech but if you are going to attack one of the main 3 religions, at least spend the time to do some quality research to support your assertions. Also, as I read on and on, he lost credibility with each sentence, with his use of superlatives and absolutes such as this gem "It's the Christians who go around trying to persecute everyone else all the time". And that was just the 3rd sentence in the tirade. LOL. I came away with the impression that this was written by someone with a highschool education at best.
> 
> This was a humorous read on a slow and boring Friday. Thanks for that, at least.


Congratulations. Your remarks only reinforce my belief in the credibility of the piece. They do nothing toward shaking my belief that the piece does what it says it does. In fact, why did you even bother?


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## KAOSOWNER (Apr 5, 2008)

I may be different than most because i dont take everything written in the literal since.


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## HippieMan (Apr 5, 2008)

the bible must be correct cuz the people who wrote it wrote it 50 years after everythin had happened, imagine writin a book 50 years after you saw it as a teen or somethin? YA fuckin right


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## HippieMan (Apr 5, 2008)

try gettin a group of like 25 people and making a long ass circle or line, then whisper a sentence into one person's ear and let them whisper the same sentence into the next person's ear, all the way down the line, when the last person says the sentence 100% of the time it is different from the original, and that was just 25 people, now imagine 50 years and thousands of people ..... if ya want to live your life based on a fairytale, go right ahead


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## trishmybiscuits (Apr 5, 2008)

HippieMan said:


> try gettin a group of like 25 people and making a long ass circle or line, then whisper a sentence into one person's ear and let them whisper the same sentence into the next person's ear, all the way down the line, when the last person says the sentence 100% of the time it is different from the original, and that was just 25 people, now imagine 50 years and thousands of people ..... if ya want to live your life based on a fairytale, go right ahead


Hooray for you! Finally someone who can think for himself shows up!


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## Medical D (Apr 7, 2008)

Is bunk the opposite of Debunk


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## Medical D (Apr 7, 2008)

deflower means to remove the flower, have you taken Jesus' bunk?


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## Medical D (Apr 7, 2008)

so much for the nativity scene.


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## Medical D (Apr 7, 2008)

All organized Religions are money scams. 
I don't have to pay to speak to my 
imaginary friends, and neither should anyone else
P.S that article did not debunk Christianity.
common sense does.


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## shamegame (Apr 7, 2008)

Medical D said:


> All organized Religions are money scams.
> I don't have to pay to speak to my
> imaginary friends, and neither should anyone else
> P.S that article did not debunk Christianity.
> common sense does.


Stop spamming. WTF are you doing? Running up your post count ?


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## Medical D (Apr 7, 2008)

yep so what?


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## Medical D (Apr 7, 2008)

Fuck you cock breath.


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## Medical D (Apr 7, 2008)

call me out bithch and I'll fixate on you, like I fixated on girl's vagina


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## Medical D (Apr 7, 2008)

teach me how to roll you little sniveling bitch


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## Medical D (Apr 7, 2008)

read you bio .....closet


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## Medical D (Apr 7, 2008)

by the way fuck you again.
You fuckin' sack munch.
toodles.


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## Medical D (Apr 7, 2008)

Shamegame your post count is 15,000 
4.9 a day and you're tellin; me? you poser
back the fuck off me christian monkey,
I will post when and where I like as a member,
so fuck off....atleast until santa gets here you fuckin' abysmal
cum gargler.
BTW this my new account...been here awhile you pandering ass-lick.


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## shamegame (Apr 7, 2008)

Medical D said:


> Shamegame your post count is 15,000
> 4.9 a day and you're tellin; me? you poser
> back the fuck off me christian monkey,
> I will post when and where I like as a member,
> ...


And with your attitude you will be making new accounts often since you keep ruining them by acting like this. I don't care who you are- stop spamming.


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## Darque (Apr 8, 2008)

I think that was a immature and festidiously basic rant.

As much as i like giving christians stick cause alot of there things dont add up, and i dont see muslims or hindus handing out "praise god or go to hell" "jesus died painfully for your sins" cards, 
It was rather pathetic


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## trishmybiscuits (Apr 8, 2008)

Darque said:


> I think that was a immature and festidiously basic rant.
> 
> As much as i like giving christians stick cause alot of there things dont add up, and i dont see muslims or hindus handing out "praise god or go to hell" "jesus died painfully for your sins" cards,
> It was rather pathetic


Oh, no, not another "rant" comment. Can't you people at least be original? The first person that responded to this thread used the term "rant" and everyone who trashed it afterword just cloned her. What's the matter? Can't you people think for yourselves? What are you? Zombies?

But in actuality that's OK. Merely calling the piece names just reinforces the piece's credibility.You can call it whatever you want. The only thing that matters is whether you can dispute it or not. And no one who has posted to this thread has even lifted a finger along those lines. You people who merely call it names like "rant" or "tirade" just build up the credibility of the piece with each remark. I repeat, just don't dispute the piece.

You see, merely pointing out that Jesus didn't know anything about the natural world can never be equated with the term "rant" because all it is is a simple fact. Consequently, when people resort to the use of such terms all they do is announce to the world the nature of their own shallow mentality.

So, by all means, keep all those "rant" comments coming because we haven't built up the credibility of the piece high enough yet!!!


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## kronicsmurf (Apr 11, 2008)

Why bother bashing christians or religion, its not going to go away people believe how they want to believe. i personally think that atheism is a narrow minded cult and no better than the christians they like to bash. just to set the record straight i'm not taking sides. i believe that God exist but don't really feel the need to ram that belief down anyones throat.


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## Maccabee (Apr 11, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> Oh, no, not another "rant" comment. Can't you people at least be original?


A lot of people also agree that the sky is blue and water is wet. It _is _a rant. Atheism can be just as ignorantly dogmatic as the most throwback-laden forms Christianity. I'm firmly agnostic, and I don't have a dog in this race. I don't feel like going through what is obviously a non-objective piece of writing in thorough enough detail to enumerate all of the logical fallacies--the quality of the writing doesn't really sustain that kind of analysis.

However, I'll list a few that can be found in even a cursory once-over of the "article:"

_
Argumentum ad logicam, 


Argumentum ad nauseam, 


Argumentum ad Hominem, 


Argumentum ad ignorantiam, 


Argumentum ad populum, 


Argumentum ad novitatem, 


Converse accident / Hasty generalization, 


Petitio principii / Begging the question, Circulus in demonstrando

Complex question / Fallacy of interrogation / Fallacy of presupposition

Ignoratio elenchi / Irrelevant conclusion

Fallacy of division

Affirmation of the consequent

Denial of the antecedent

Bifurcation

Plurium interrogationum / Many questions

Red herring

Straw Man

_You can find good explanations of these in the Constructing Logical Arguments FAQ--part of the old Alt.Atheism FAQ collection. This is a document that was originally written to try and improve the quality (read: intellectual sophistication) of the debate on alt.atheism and USENET in general. 

I'm going to link it here, because I think many of the participants in this thread might find it interesting both because their content is good and very even handed but also because they are a piece of Internet culture from the early years that show how long-running and controversial the debate over religion and atheism has been since the days of USENET.

It's a very good document just in terms of a critical reference, I've found it to be useful in sharpening my thinking in developing academic work. If nothing else, it provides very useful encapsulations of the classic logical fallacies without having to pull out a volume of philosophy or rhetoric. 

Whatever you think of what I'm saying, or where you stand on this debate (or don't care about it at all) this FAQ is one of those jewels of Internet lore that's worth saving, printing, keeping around, and showing to people. There are expensive textbooks out there that are less informative. 

Alt.Atheism FAQ: Constructing a Logical Argument ( 1996 edition mirrored. )

Here, also, is the "About Atheism FAQ" that used to circulate on alt.atheism:

Atheism: An Introduction to Atheism

I find this to be a MUCH better atheist 'rejoinder' to dogmatic, evangelizing , proselytizing or otherwise hostile Christians than the "article" linked in the original post above.


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## trishmybiscuits (Apr 15, 2008)

I think you're missing the point. Let's face it, people can make a science out of debunking Christianity, and I'm sure that scholars have tried to do just that. Someone could probably create a four-year college corriculum based entirely on debunking Christianity. But that's the beauty of this piece, its simplicity. It is very, very pathetically easy to debunk Chritianity once and for all just by taking a look at some very simple facts. That's all that piece does. All that piece is, is just a collection of simple facts that no rationally minded person could read and ever attach any credibility to Christianity ever again.

There's several simple facts in that piece that themselves alone would be enough to permanently debunked Christianity.

Only an ignorant fool, however, would expect everyone to read something like that to like it. And I'm sure the author never did. I've seen this same piece discussed on umpteen forums across the Internet and have witnessed many great things being said about it.

I don't need to be lectured on what constitutes the debunking of Chritianity or not. I can recognize it without any help. That piece lives up to its title whether you agree or not. The literature that you rave about apparently never got the job done.


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## SocataSmoker (Apr 16, 2008)

Christianity or not... something had to start all of this Trish. Big bang, fine in the fact planets do form from gas clouds etc... etc... but to say that all of this came from some kind of "snap" in the universe is just ignorant. I have many different beliefs, I cannot classify an exact definition of mine, and as a great man said "I have a religion, and my religion is kindness." and cannot conform to one central "belief" as in there is this spirit named God above us and la la la. I do know that there is a higher power or powers that created this space which the universe fills, and I know that there is an afterlife, credited to a drunk driver who killed me for a good 3 minutes. I cannot explain it and will not try to, please respect that... but I do know that when we die we do not just empty out into blackness and fertilize the soil. We go somewhere, I have no idea where and nor do I want to think about where as I know in the end I'll be there, just trying to enjoy the journey. So in my opinion, Christianity, as with any handed down form of anything, has become twisted. That is why I do not follow any set religion. Ergh it's 5 AM and I'm rambling incoherently, I am safe in my knowledge of what lies after this life here on earth, I wish others could know what I know... and experience what I experienced, and you will of course, dying is inevitable... but to die and come back, it has changed me... that is all I will say about my life in terms of spirituality. Make your religion kindness, it's one we all can understand.


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## FilthyFletch (Apr 16, 2008)

all religion especially organized is evil and bad. religion is the reason of most wars and divisons of hate. We can all better the word by stopping to acknowledge any religion and just live life for what we can and not try to make more of it then it is..dont give that money to a church buy lunch for a homeless family ..if there is your god he'd be much happier your helping his childrne then that child mloesting church


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## FilthyFletch (Apr 16, 2008)

ps if your in america feed a homeless us family dont send the money to africa or else where we have plenty in need in our own backyard too


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## SocataSmoker (Apr 16, 2008)

Exactly, just what I said man  Make kindness your religion and everything will be alright...


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## FilthyFletch (Apr 16, 2008)

Thats right socata.. we agree lets make a church and our own religion...oh wait thats a bad idea isnt it lol


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## trishmybiscuits (Apr 22, 2008)

FilthyFletch said:


> Thats right socata.. we agree lets make a church and our own religion...oh wait thats a bad idea isnt it lol


Your comments are very warmly received by the originator of this thread. Your intelligence and maturity transcends many of the individuals who've responded so far.


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## Cannabolic (Apr 22, 2008)

FilthyFletch said:


> all religion especially organized is evil and bad. religion is the reason of most wars and divisons of hate. We can all better the word by stopping to acknowledge any religion and just live life for what we can and not try to make more of it then it is..dont give that money to a church buy lunch for a homeless family ..if there is your god he'd be much happier your helping his childrne then that child mloesting church


religion itself isent bad. its people that are the evil ones. religion is not the reason for bigitry and hatred and ignorence. but you are right about the homless thing America needs to take care of our own ppl befor we can go into another country and help them (iraq)


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## Cannabolic (Apr 22, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> Your comments are very warmly received by the originator of this thread. Your intelligence and maturity transcends many of the individuals who've responded so far.


how is it intellegent. its a biased opinion on his/her belief of religion. there was nothing factual about it.


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## Hydrotech364 (Apr 22, 2008)

*i read somewhere the other day that scientists are extremely close to exposing the god particle.the particle that is responsible for life as we know it.i believe the bible was a moral rule book with a plot.i live by most of the rules in it,because i choose to be a gentleman as well as an example to youth and stupid fuckers who do not get the fact that people will treat you the way you treat them.you reap what you sow!!!!!
peace brothers and sisters.
*


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## 40acres (Apr 24, 2008)

If you listen to Christians in the United States you might come away with the impression that they're a persecuted lot.


Thats what the article said.Are you people persecuting them? Don't let different words for the same thing in the end divide everyone. Thats what they want.


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## oGipRotRe (Apr 27, 2008)

that article was interesting but really wasn't any good... I'm personally agnostic and if I were to criticize Christian tendency/tradition, it would be the means by which the claimed knowledge of God is spread. People can be born into Christian families and believe in it out of ignorance because it's what they were fed since they understand English, and some people convert from atheism or other religions after... who knows what changes their mind - but the one thing that I consistently hear from a large amount of them in debates is defending blind faith as a good enough reason to believe in something. At this point it stops being a debate and starts being useless rhetorical blabbering.... think about it. If you want me to believe something like, let's say... that if I don't accept that Jesus was the son of God and died for _my _sins, you have to give me a reason - but rather than a reason you provide me with both a threat and a bribe wrapped in one nice little package. You see, if I accept (WITHOUT QUESTION) that Jesus is my savior and died for all my sins, I go to that wonderful place called heaven.... and if I question or deny it, I go to hell. Rather than giving me a reason to believe something, you bribe me with the most desirable thing you can imagine - and try and scare me into believing the worst possible thing imaginable will happen to me if I don't believe it - but regardless of what I believe, neither of these 2 things will come by way until after I die... so I'll never be able to confirm your claims to others because I'll die before I ever truly know.

With this logic, NO ONE can KNOW that there is a heaven and hell or that Jesus ever died for their sins. Many can claim to know, for fear that if they don't continue to believe so, they'll later suffer for eternity... but if you only refer to "knowledge" in the strict sense of meaning our language gives it, there is none to be found with this faith stuff. What amuses me about religious debates is all those people who try and _prove_ a point with a passage (or passages) from their holy book and nothing more. I wish I could make things indisputably true simply by writing them down... or at least chose something nice someone else wrote down and make it true!

What it comes down to is a personal choice. You can walk one of many Christian roads or you can walk any other road of life, but if anyone ever tries to make that choice for you they'd better actually make some sort of a logical argument rather than spewing a series of statements without explanations.


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## Steve (Apr 27, 2008)

wow that was terrible. His/her arguments were about as "[stable] as a house of cards" LOL!


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## PoseidonsNet (Apr 27, 2008)

*



Christianity has been debunked once and for all

Click to expand...

So u think christianity is at fault because it considers sodomy (the act of creating AIDS by inserting the penis into the anus) to be wrong?

And abortion is a cool thing, mr faithless?

That document affirms Christianity.

Keep wishing that your sin and guilt will dissappear. See how far you get.

John The Baptist was the leading saviour of love -
and Jesus - he played the rhythm - the message of a dove.*


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## trishmybiscuits (Apr 28, 2008)

Cannabolic said:


> how is it intellegent. its a biased opinion on his/her belief of religion. there was nothing factual about it.


The "maturity" part was easy. She had the maturity to think for herself, unlike some of the people who've responded to this thread. The "intelligence" part was related to the first part - she had the intelligence to have the maturity to think for herself.


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## 40acres (Apr 29, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> *So u think christianity is at fault because it considers sodomy (the act of creating AIDS by inserting the penis into the anus) to be wrong?*
> 
> *And abortion is a cool thing, mr faithless?*
> 
> ...


How is abortion or sodomy confirming anything?


Whatever you call it, arguing over semantics, don't we all want to have faith in something? If some cats have to choose jesus, let them and let it go.Seriously, as a role model, you could do worse.

I myself like to think that mary is watching me.I even have St. Bridget tattoed on my arm in reverance.I choose to have faith because that is what i need to kee pme on track. I am not a bible thumper, but i need the piety and
humbleness that believing gives me. As long as it is healthy and fruitful, should we condemn anything, even if it has the possibility of being untrue?
If jesus helps that man get through his day happier and in a better way, why would you evven want to squash that?
maybe if people would stop fighting over shit that has no bearing on their own lives and concentrate on their own backyards more, we wouldnt have so much bullshit in the world.


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## euthanatos93420 (May 4, 2008)

Agnostic is the only logical religion. Logically, an omnipotent God may persist outside our empirical perception (An Scientific investigation thereof). Therefore, science CANNOT disprove teh existence of God (Though it can to a fair bit of damage to a 'litteral' translation of 'The Bible'. Furthermore by the very nature of the former, that latter becomes true, God cannot be proven, else faith is knowledge and God dethroned. 

It's an OLD catch22 that serves no fucking purpose to debate because the only thing it achieves is dissent. You have been divided an conquered. Enjoy your paycheck.


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## jon4slhsl (May 6, 2008)

www.exposingchristianity.com`i didnt read the debunking site Body because i dont need to. christianity is false and its NOT the worlds largest religion anymore. satanism and not levayen. spiritual satanism. it works with science unlike christianity. www.JoyofSatan.com if you want to go to this site and find out the truth go right ahead. be open minded. the joy of satan yahoo egroup is the largest yahoo group. satanism is lawabiding no animal sacrifice or any bullshit. satanism is about empowering your mind. meditation is key. is it too much to say christianity is not the right religion. to you satanism might not be the right religion either. come on anyone can tell christianity isnt real. open your eyes. when you talk to god/pray does he ever talk back. i dont think he does.
and for everyone that thinks god gave them the beautiful marijane. im sorry but he didnt. i think it was evolution. no wait evolution isnt real. god made the earth a few thousand years ago. hmmmm something isnt adding up.


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## 40acres (May 6, 2008)

jon4slhsl said:


> www.exposingchristianity.com`i didnt read the debunking site Body because i dont need to. christianity is false and its NOT the worlds largest religion anymore. satanism and not levayen. spiritual satanism. it works with science unlike christianity. www.JoyofSatan.com if you want to go to this site and find out the truth go right ahead. be open minded. the joy of satan yahoo egroup is the largest yahoo group. satanism is lawabiding no animal sacrifice or any bullshit. satanism is about empowering your mind. meditation is key. is it too much to say christianity is not the right religion. to you satanism might not be the right religion either. come on anyone can tell christianity isnt real. open your eyes. when you talk to god/pray does he ever talk back. i dont think he does.
> and for everyone that thinks god gave them the beautiful marijane. im sorry but he didnt. i think it was evolution. no wait evolution isnt real. god made the earth a few thousand years ago. hmmmm something isnt adding up.


No difference between what you said, and wht those mormons said that came to my house. A bunch of prpoganda, and nothing worth really looking at.
Look, I'll trade you my time for weed, and then you can speak ridiculousness all you want.


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## jon4slhsl (May 6, 2008)

yes there is a difference. a lot of people dont know what satanism is all about. everyone knows about christianity. no one knows about the real satan. not the christian one. and i live on the east coast where good weed is scarce for my town at least. i have to grow my own dank.


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## trishmybiscuits (May 8, 2008)

40acres said:


> If you listen to Christians in the United States you might come away with the impression that they're a persecuted lot.
> 
> 
> Thats what the article said.Are you people persecuting them? Don't let different words for the same thing in the end divide everyone. Thats what they want.


The article was just pointing out a simple fact there. The Christians do in fact go around claiming that they're being persecuted. The article doesn't persecute anyone. It justs asks pertinent and legitimate questions or raises pertinent and legitimate issues regarding Christianity's foundations. That doesn't constitute persecution.


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## blinkykush (May 9, 2008)

God is the truth and religion was created in a pale comparison and point of view by "Man" and the con of our existance has always been finding something pure and hindering it to gain control over the masses. I just believe in God.


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## IheartKeif (May 9, 2008)

I am 27 years old and I have to say that within my generation I find that most people accept that individual views are just that. Why do we find the need to prove to other people how right we are and how incredibly stupid they are for believing the way that they do? I wake up every day and attempt to express peace and understanding to the individuals I come in contact with. Everybody on here likes to say stuff like "Peace and Love" but I guess thats all lip service. I have read parts of the Bible and I have attended plenty of Sunday morning services. The one thing that I take away from it all is that I do not have all of the answers. I believe that there are other dimensions at play that I can never understand. However through intense personal experiences there is no doubt in my mind that God exists. So what I am left with is the reality that I must trust in a higher power. Nothing in that individuals long jumbled list of personal opinions gave me any concrete evidence that a God cannot exist. What I did pick up on at the end is that he would like to pass yet another law to control people and give the Government more power. 
So now I will wait for someday to call me a fag or an idiot.


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## email468 (May 9, 2008)

I am an atheist. I was agnostic until 9/11/2001.


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## jon4slhsl (May 9, 2008)

have any of you watched this movie? Zeitgeist - The Movie


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## Kage (May 10, 2008)

okay guys, here's the scoop. Christians today are the way they are because the Bible was translated by single minded and biased people, but NOT written by them. Christians are famous for cramming a bunch of shit that makes them feel better down everyone's throat, but you start trying to even offer another point of view you are a poor lost soul, mistaken, blindly flailing around in this plane of existance... Point is, they were raised that way and they will stay that way. But planing the guns and loading the canons isn't what needs to be done.. although we'd love to... anyhow, don't knock everything just cause a bunch of crazed lunatics are slingin' it. There's truth in the Bible, and there's a Jah lookin down to the earth, and He gave Jahpeople love to light the world. Jah be praised.


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## jaiddragon (May 11, 2008)

#1 rule besides not telling about your grow op...

dont talk about religion with people that have their whole lives/identities tied up in it...

they just get more rabid and less likely to see reason, and who can forget, nobody expects the spanish inquisition! (except all those poor bastards that were burned at the stake in the name of christian god, really think it couldnt happen again?)


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## jimmyspaz (May 11, 2008)

It's all snake oil. There is no organized religon that isn't. Even Buddhism which shouldn't be devolves into religon . There seems to be a deep need in many people to have a outside all-powerful force to thank and blame, after all, such a great thing as mankind COULDN'T be just the result of random chance,could it?


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## Yondaime (May 11, 2008)

> "I'll state right up front that the foundations that Christianity is based on are sheer myth and sheer fantasy."
> 
> "Anyone who really believes deep down in their mind that Jesus Christ was the son of God is delusional."
> 
> ...


Christianity debunked? Thats a huge joke

Yet another atheist, angry at religion. And he thinks he is earth's scientific representative and historian...


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## email468 (May 11, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> Christianity debunked? Thats a huge joke
> 
> Yet another atheist, angry at religion. And he thinks he is earth's scientific representative and historian...


You say that as if religion didn't merit our scorn.


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## Skate Hawaii (May 11, 2008)

christians are about love, and being a peacemaker, not shoving rules down peoples throat.


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## Yondaime (May 12, 2008)

> You say that as if religion didn't merit our scorn.


Sure, there are alot of things about religion that I am fed up about. Like terrorists who think that killing you will make them martyrs because you don't accept their idea of God. But come on, in what way is Christianity effecting your life as an atheist email468 - Christians aren't going to stone you for not being Christian, you don't have Christians knocking at your door forcing you to repent your sins..

The problem I have with people who label themselves as atheists is that they generally tend to bash Christians. To a certain extent thats ok because everyone is entitled to an opinion, but it becomes a problem when atheists try to convince other people that religion is a lie. If you are an atheist - thats ok, its a choice you've made and a choice you are entitled to. If you are religious, thats fine - because thats a choice you've made and you are entitled to have that choice. Don't go around bashing people who turn to religion for hope just because of what you believe, as far as I know there is no mathematical formula that can prove or disprove either theories.

There is no way that we can prove or disprove the existence of an intelligent creator, when you show me this mathematical formula that can prove that billions of people were wrong I will denounce my beliefs.


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## daydrops (May 12, 2008)

debunked? please. the writer is obviously ignorant of christianity and probably every other religion. this could logically be called a rant about mysticism in general. but none of the points that he raised have any type of validity to a christian. dismissed.

if you want to debunk christianity to a christian, you must debunk the very foundation of their world-view, not just attack their implausible story. what is their foundation? the bible, of course. if you can get a christian to either lose faith in the book's authenticity or in their denomination's interpretation of it, then you will have debunked their faith. (this is much easier said then done.)

untill then, this is just another shallow thinking, non-believer spitting fire at some religion's queer ideas. get in line.


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## email468 (May 12, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> Sure, there are alot of things about religion that I am fed up about. Like terrorists who think that killing you will make them martyrs because you don't accept their idea of God. But come on, in what way is Christianity effecting your life as an atheist email468 - Christians aren't going to stone you for not being Christian, you don't have Christians knocking at your door forcing you to repent your sins..
> 
> The problem I have with people who label themselves as atheists is that they generally tend to bash Christians. To a certain extent thats ok because everyone is entitled to an opinion, but it becomes a problem when atheists try to convince other people that religion is a lie. If you are an atheist - thats ok, its a choice you've made and a choice you are entitled to. If you are religious, thats fine - because thats a choice you've made and you are entitled to have that choice. Don't go around bashing people who turn to religion for hope just because of what you believe, as far as I know there is no mathematical formula that can prove or disprove either theories.
> 
> There is no way that we can prove or disprove the existence of an intelligent creator, when you show me this mathematical formula that can prove that billions of people were wrong I will denounce my beliefs.


I do not normally "bash" any religion publicly though I have no problem defending my right not to believe in things without evidence.

I am all for freedom which would include believing whatever you want. Even if your beliefs include an end-of-the-world scenario and predictions. Since most of us are familiar with Christianity, and you specifically asked about Christianity in particular, I will use it as an example.

Revelations is mostly misinterpreted by devout Christians as being a prophecy when in reality it was most likely written as historical allegory - the destruction of the temple and all that - but I don't want to go into that right now. I will stick with the most agreed upon interpretation which is prophecy.

I will go out on a limb and say most devout Christians believe that Revelations has something to do with the end of the world and is prophecy - that is something that has yet to take place but will in the future. Revelations "predicts" the rebirth of Israel and another destruction of the temple among the things that must happen before Christ's return. What this means is, if you believe the bible is the word of God and is infallible, seeing a mushroom cloud in Jerusalem would have s silver lining - surely this must mean the end of days is nigh, right?

now you are free to believe this or not - the problem i have... as an atheist is when people who are in charge of nuclear (or even conventional) weapons believe this tripe. Another words, someone who believes that some sort of destruction is mandatory for a deities return (like in Revelations) should NOT be making decisions that could bring that possibility about. 

What i want is policy decisions based on reality - not some ancient rambling and easily misinterpreted book. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim and that should hold through all policy decisions. I want leaders whose highest power in their life is the people they serve - not some God that they can use to justify any of their heinous (or even their good) actions.

So when someone who believes the Bible is absolute truth and the best thing for the world would be Christ's return and in order for that to happen the temple in Jerusalem must be destroyed and this person has access to the weapons that could make this destruction possible and said person is elected to be the US president... then i have a BIG FUCKING PROBLEM with religion. I'd have the same problem if we'd elect someone who "believes" a specific race inferior or superior or someone who "believes" the moon is made of cheese. The point I am making is - public policy should be based on reality - not in what someone "believes".

And let's not forget that Christians are responsible for the Inquisition and the subsequent witch burnings during the middle ages. It was also Christians, during the age of empires, that spearheaded the dual campaign of conversion and terror which decimated native populations. Christians were also responsible for the many pogroms throughout Europe (up to and including the Holocaust).

These are rather extreme examples (though a mushroom cloud in Jerusalem is getting more likely every day - thanks to religion).. so instead of focusing on the doomsday scenario, would you prefer to talk about Christians who want ID taught in schools instead of science? or Christians who fight against homosexual unions or birth control? Do you realize that there are Christian missionaries who will not hand out condoms in Africa because God doesn't like them (condoms that is) even though they would greatly reduce the spread of AIDS? very loving indeed.

In my opinion, the worse of all is Christian parents filling their children's heads with horrible stories of hell-fire and damnation. You know - the kind of parents who would be appalled at seeing some boobies on TV but have no problem telling their kids how God killed his only son by nailing him to a tree for all our sins. or that God killed all the first born in Egypt cause the Pharaoh refused to obey His nonsensical orders. Or how God turned Abraham's wife into a pillar of salt for what? oh yeah she looked behind her when God told her not to. I am talking about the parents who say you better be good kiddies or that ole devil will take you down to hell and not just for a day or two - forever and ever and ever. what a disgusting and sickening thing for a parent to tell a child.

I say this is the worse because it forever instills fear and guilt in an innocent child but it does something else potentially far worse and that is establishing faith as a virtue. faith is a virtue? how the hell is believing in something with no evidence at all - or worse - believing something IN SPITE of the evidence a virtue? more like close-minded idiocy to me - but hey - no harm done, right?

I wonder how many religious folks would be around if they weren't indoctrinated into it at an early age. I mean, how many folks would purposefully blind their eyes to reason to adopt a faith.

I will stop "bashing" religion when the "religious" folks are willing to vote for an admittedly atheist president. fair enough?


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## email468 (May 12, 2008)

daydrops said:


> debunked? please. the writer is obviously ignorant of christianity and probably every other religion. this could logically be called a rant about mysticism in general. but none of the points that he raised have any type of validity to a christian. dismissed.
> 
> if you want to debunk christianity to a christian, you must debunk the very foundation of their world-view, not just attack their implausible story. what is their foundation? the bible, of course. if you can get a christian to either lose faith in the book's authenticity or in their denomination's interpretation of it, then you will have debunked their faith. (this is much easier said then done.)
> 
> untill then, this is just another shallow thinking, non-believer spitting fire at some religion's queer ideas. get in line.


Until "believers" are willing to listen to evidence - this can never happen. 

If I pose the question: "What would make you stop believing in the Bible and God?" and your answer is "Nothing" - then it really doesn't matter what the evidence points towards, does it?

If you ask a me what would make me belief in a God - i would respond with a few things that would turn my head around. Some code buried deep in some mathematical algorithms (ala Carl Sagan's idea about PI in contact). Or any event that science can not explain based on what science already knows - like if the Earth stopped rotating for a bit and then started again with no ill effects. you know- a real miracle that does not have any natural explanation would be convincing evidence.

But as long as there are religious folks speaking what they believe, I thank God (some levity is OK, right?) that there are atheists willing to stand up and speak their minds as well.


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## itsgrowinglikeaweed (May 12, 2008)

Regardless of which side you are on, if you would rather explore than ignore the suject of religion you will want to read some of Joseph Simonetti's writings. This man has a Masters of Divinity Degree from Harvard U. Has studied all earthly religions (past and present). You can read his books free online. Here is a link to the best one. Seven Words that can Change the World page 0 - Introduction Its a short book. It has been desribed as a thousand pages worth of words in just 22 pages. Its called Seven Words That Can Change The World.


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## High4Life (May 12, 2008)

I was on you tube this morning watching some cool weed mmovies growing , extraction methods ect Guess what the were all talking about underneath lmao ..If there is a god or not hahah


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## danieljk91 (May 12, 2008)

Formed religion is a joke.


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## DarkStorm (May 12, 2008)

I agree. People who subject their children to religion are damaging the child.


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## Yondaime (May 12, 2008)

@daydrops:

I don't believe the bible to be a textbook or law book that can just be referenced out of, it contains what it needs to contain for certain individuals who have the capacity to understand a part of it at a time in their lives..

"He who has ears let him hear" - Jesus. I don't think the bible will benefit everyone, whats written in it is just for the benefit for those who will read it and understand it or have the capacity in their lives to understand a certain part of it in their lifetimes and I think for any single man to understand the Christian God in his entirety would be implausible.

I think to try and discredit the bible wouldn't have that much effect on true Christians who base their faith on their connection with God..

@email468:

First off, don't take me the wrong way - I hate the modern conventional idea of Christianity, it becomes a purely social popularity contest and people who are into religion just so that they can sit on a high horse and tell people what they have done wrong. I am totally against this kind of Christian, I am also against the Christian who will try to convert and save everyone - I think its pointless and it just leads to resentment and dislike for Christianity and the Christian God. Christians who only focus on the bible and forget all about God which is the point of their religion I'm also against. Christians who have been brought up as Christians and have never questioned God, their religion and their beliefs I am against because a religion and belief should be your own and not inherited. 

My point is, even as a Christian (if I can call myself that) I'm disgusted by the way alot of people who call themselves Christian act in their belief - I probably have more against modern Christians than most atheists do. This is because I believe in human error, people make mistakes, people can be deceived, people can be misled and thats why I never accept anything I hear as fact until I've had time to mull it over with the source material first.

As for prophecy and the future, Revelations is a bit abstract for me - Its best interpreted with the time that it was written in kept in mind and read in the language that it was written for. Its hard for us to make sense of what is written because it covers a man who is supposed to have had a glimpse at the future - not even the present, he is supposed to have seen a glimpse of the end times where technology has surpassed even what we have at the moment.

If we assume that the person who wrote Revelations was indeed John who wrote the book of John in the new testament then we can safely assume that he had not seen any modern technology - he had not even seen a car or a bicycle. He was on an island and he had never seen a gun, he had not seen gunpowder so imagine if you were to show someone like that an atomic explosion - helicopters and mass armies.. He wrote down what he saw, in his own words, a man who had never seen a clock describing machinery seen in the end times. That is why Revelations is so abstract and hard to understand, that is also why it is very interesting for theologians because it can be interpreted in so many different ways.

I prefer looking at what Jesus said to his disciples and the people for the coming of the end times, it is more direct, simpler and less abstract than what was written in Revelations and it was written before Revelations. It leaves hints of what almost all Christians quest to understand in their lives - God's plan. If we look at the bible we get this idea of the future: 

Jesus says that there will be no signs given,

Matthew 6:14 - A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

So basically, Christians have to believe in God without the aid of a miraculous sign. But Jesus also acknowledges those that have to believe in something that they can never be completely sure of.

John 20:29 - Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

People will be misled by false prophets,

Matthew 24:24 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves

Matthew 24:11 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

This is extremely true today, there are multitudes of variations and sects of Christianity, and a multitude of religions out there. People have been misled, led to believe certain things that may or may not be true and people have become confused and many have just decided that they've had enough of all of it.

There will be war and rumours of war,
Matthew 24:6 - And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet

What Jesus tells his disciples and the people about the future is not pretty. The bible does not paint a pretty picture for the future, people are going to die, people are going to suffer and what happens has to happen - it is and has always been part of God's plan. That is why the Christian God's plan is so hard to understand because he brings both destruction and salvation in his wake.

As for faith, just think of it as a child that has to trust his parents because it knows no better.. The reason why faith is necessary in a child's life is because the child can not possibly understand the workings and consequences of an electrical appliance - the only thing it can do is believe blindly that touching loose electrical wires will kill it and consequently avoid it. It is submitence, accepting that we are not in control and forcing ourselves to believe in something that is impossible or implausible in our understanding. For Christians that means that if you ask for something you will receive it so long as you have faith;

Matthew 17:20- - And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Mark 11:23 - I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him.

Matthew 21:21 - Jesus replied, I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.

Alot of emphasis has been placed on believing that you will receive what you are asking, regardless of the means, focusing only on the outcome.

Rules are there for the child so that it does not hurt itself, don't touch the stove when its on, don't eat before you go swimming, look before you cross the street, do this, don't do that - they are all there so that the child will have a better chance at survival. Laws in a country are also there to prolong our lives to a certain extent. Its the same with commandments and God's laws - they are there to ensure that you will have a better chance regardless of whether we understand the rule or law - obviously people now days understand the world a bit better than people of that time so less of God's laws apply, but the majority of them will always apply. 

As for the moral question about why does God lets bad things happen and why does God allow suffering, loneliness, heartache, torment, blindness, aids, terrorism, plague, drought, disease and what ever you think is bad in this world? (Isaiah 45:7 - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.")

That question is probably the oldest question in religion and the most answered. We will probably never get a real conclusion on that question until the end times (assuming that there will be an end times), but everything is, and has already been in his plan from the start so we will have to wait and see..

Anyway it seems that has taken me an hour to type lol, so I'm gonna take a break..


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## email468 (May 12, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> @daydrops:
> 
> I don't believe the bible to be a textbook or law book that can just be referenced out of, it contains what it needs to contain for certain individuals who have the capacity to understand a part of it at a time in their lives..
> 
> ...



This is a very well thought out post. If all religious folks were like you, I doubt the world would be in such dire straits as it is today.

However - the world is full of people willing to lay down their lives for their religion - which is fine. But they tend to want to take others with them - which is not so fine. I would point out two things regarding moderates (like yourself) - first - you enable the zealots to be what they are - if you don't follow the bible - why call yourself a christian? why not just call yourself spiritual or a deist and let it go at that. Jesus sure didn't invent the golden rule and he isn't the only god-man-child to have said treat people nice. the second thing i would point out to a moderate like yourself is - regardless what you call yourself - the fundies will burn you right alongside me. In fact, in their mind you are far worse as you are a false prophet - whereas i am just an out-an-out heathen.

I would point out that I must not have made my point very clearly as you did not really address any of them - other than to say - i am not that kind of Christian. A child obeying a parent without question is not the same as an adult believing the Earth stopped rotating or a sea was parted to allow folks to stroll across the dry bottom. There is a difference between blind obedience (necessary for childhood survival) and blind faith (necessary for good men to commit evil acts).

I would also add that the modern day christianity is not that different from post-Roman times.


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## Yondaime (May 12, 2008)

I guess I did get carried away a bit and overlooked quite a few of your points please allow me to address a few of them.



> So when someone who believes the Bible is absolute truth and the best thing for the world would be Christ's return and in order for that to happen the temple in Jerusalem must be destroyed and this person has access to the weapons that could make this destruction possible and said person is elected to be the US president... then i have a BIG FUCKING PROBLEM with religion. I'd have the same problem if we'd elect someone who "believes" a specific race inferior or superior or someone who "believes" the moon is made of cheese. The point I am making is - public policy should be based on reality - not in what someone "believes".


I think we would all have a problem with that scenario, religious or not religious. However we are told ironically that the anti-Christ will play the part in the end times and will lead on to the coming of the Messiah as opposed to a fundamentalist bringing on the end times so I guess we will just have to wait and see. Either way I believe that politics in developed and civilized countries tend to lean towards separating religion from war.

Regarding mixing religion with politics, I agree with you - it is definitely not logical for any one man to decide the fate of a country that consists of a huge diversity of different religions and beliefs based on his own religious orientation.

However the chance of a political decision for a diverse and developed country like America, China or Russia to go to nuclear war purely due to religion is surely highly unlikely? Considering that there will be protests, general outrage and the country would go crazy if a decision such as that were to be made possible. Yes, I think a mushroom cloud in Jerusalem would be quite religiously significant, but that doesn't seem to be probable at the moment or in the near future.

War or no war, I think that there is still a long time to come before the end times.. Isaac Newton made a calculated prediction that the world would not end before 2060 and thats probably the best bet I could give at the moment. Even if the world doesn't end up destroying itself, just like everything else in life - humanity will have a peak and a decline, we will all become extinct eventually. We will all die - that is inevitable.

I call myself a Christian based on the set of deitys and prophets that Christianity contains, which I choose to believe as logically significant and credible. Although I must disagree that I find no connection between my actions and that of a false prophet. Obedience is a result of conformism due to fear for the possibility of punishment, Blind Faith is free choice without the incidence of fear of punishment or consequence.



> I would also add that the modern day Christianity is not that different from post-Roman times.


Well I would hope so, surely human nature hasn't changed?


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## Yondaime (May 12, 2008)

As for parents that scare their children into obedience, they bring children up into a very warped and just plain wrong view on what hell is and evil is. Hell is not about God torturing people and people burning in a lake of fire, weeping and gnashing their teeth as they deal with the horrible pain that is inflicted on them - Hell is the final result of the guilt, suffering and torment that people experience in life and bring upon themselves from birth.

The whole idea is that we have a chance to be saved from hell by a Messiah, that there is hope so that we will not suffer in torment eternally. We are not condemned to hell for eternity due to disobedience by a higher power as punishment, we end up in a hell as a result of the evil and guilt that consumes us. We are on a downward slope to insanity and dementia from the moment we tried to be God, its the concept of the fall of man - the concept of original sin.

Sorry just had to get that last bit out..


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## email468 (May 12, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> As for parents that scare their children into obedience, they bring children up into a very warped and just plain wrong view on what hell is and evil is. Hell is not about God torturing people and people burning in a lake of fire, weeping and gnashing their teeth as they deal with the horrible pain that is inflicted on them - Hell is the final result of the guilt, suffering and torment that people experience in life and bring upon themselves from birth.
> 
> The whole idea is that we have a chance to be saved from hell by a Messiah, that there is hope so that we will not suffer in torment eternally. We are not condemned to hell for eternity due to disobedience by a higher power as punishment, we end up in a hell as a result of the evil and guilt that consumes us. We are on a downward slope to insanity and dementia from the moment we tried to be God, its the concept of the fall of man - the concept of original sin.
> 
> Sorry just had to get that last bit out..


I'm glad you did. Very well put!


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## ZenMaster (May 13, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> As for parents that scare their children into obedience, they bring children up into a very warped and just plain wrong view on what hell is and evil is. Hell is not about God torturing people and people burning in a lake of fire, weeping and gnashing their teeth as they deal with the horrible pain that is inflicted on them - Hell is the final result of the guilt, suffering and torment that people experience in life and bring upon themselves from birth.


God does not torture you in hell. Hell is the absence of God, there you are awakened to the horror that you no longer have a guidance and love that you took for granted.



Yondaime said:


> The whole idea is that we have a chance to be saved from hell by a Messiah, that there is hope so that we will not suffer in torment eternally. We are not condemned to hell for eternity due to disobedience by a higher power as punishment, we end up in a hell as a result of the evil and guilt that consumes us. We are on a downward slope to insanity and dementia from the moment we tried to be God, its the concept of the fall of man - the concept of original sin.
> 
> Sorry just had to get that last bit out..


Do you know why there is a savior? Because when Moses brought down the 10 commandments that showed us the defining line of good and evil, we failed. Shortly after Moses had the commandments, the Jews started to worship a golden idol much to Moses's disbelief. I can almost hear it, "Are you people freakin kidding me?!" then he broke them. Humanity is very stupid. That gave the solution of Jesus, humanity failed to save itself, so now we have to have a sacrifice to atone for all of our sins, the only remaining requirement is to acknowledge this, how simple is that?


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## Yondaime (May 13, 2008)

Uh dude, read what I said again lol

Your confused.


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## ZenMaster (May 13, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> Uh dude, read what I said again lol
> 
> Your confused.


Yes, I haven't read your other posts but I think I know what your trying to get at, some people think that hell is just a collaboration of all your bad experiences and evils you have did replaying forever the moment you die.

I just wanted to point out how stupid humanity was is all.


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## email468 (May 13, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> Yes, I haven't read your other posts but I think I know what your trying to get at, some people think that hell is just a collaboration of all your bad experiences and evils you have did replaying forever the moment you die.
> 
> I just wanted to point out how stupid humanity was is all.


Unless I'm mistaken, you obviously have very deep-seated religious beliefs that are Christian in flavor. I'm not sure if I've asked this before, but I am curious about your username: ZenMaster. I'm wondering how you can marry being a ZenMaster with being a devout Christian?

None of my damn business is, of course, an acceptable answer but you seem willing to share your other beliefs so I figured I'd ask.


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## Yondaime (May 13, 2008)

ZenMasteR: I think you missed the toke and talk section, this is the spirituality, sexuality and philosophy section


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## WWgrower (May 13, 2008)

Great article, brought up a lot of things I have been thinking. The real questions I have are why did Jesus have to come at such a stupid time. And being the son of god or god why have a human sacrifice to forgive us our sins. He's god all he has to say is from this time forward I forgive you of your sins. Also if he forgave us of our sins then no problem everyone gets a E ticket to heaven. Right? Last all god has to do is appear in the heavens or whereever he see's fit and let us know he is there and stop wars, killing and all the scores of horrible barbaric atrosities that happen everyday. JUSY MY 2 CENTS


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## email468 (May 13, 2008)

WWgrower said:


> The real questions I have are why did Jesus have to come at such a stupid time. And being the son of god or god why have a human sacrifice to forgive us our sins.


The real question is why would God need to get his Son involved at all. If God is perfect (not capable of making mistakes) then His creations (us) would also be incapable of making mistakes. Or if that isn't logical enough how about this one - why couldn't God just forgive us without the Jesus thing - wouldn't an all-powerful God just be able to forgive and have done with it - i mean if He is omniscient He would already know what fuck-ups we'd turn out to be so why not just go ahead and correct his mistake (or would that require Him admitting He is not infallible).

I have heard that God is all-knowing, all-loving and all-powerful. To which I call bullshit. If he were all-loving there is no possible way He'd allow the horrible things that happen in this world. And if he is all-loving then He either doesn't know about it (so He isn't all-knowing) or can't do anything about it (so He isn't all-powerful).

Hmmm. I could go on and on and on but i think you get the picture. OK one more... God can't be all-knowing/omniscient - otherwise He wouldn't keep acting all surprised when we screw up (ala The Big Flood)... wouldn't He have seen that one coming?


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## email468 (May 13, 2008)

or another question... why would an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving God create imperfect beings with desires and then demand we not only fight against those God-given desires but devote our life to praising Him? I mean what kind of a sicko would do such a thing?

Like training a dog to go the bathroom in the house and then getting upset when it does - just doesn't make sense to me.


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## jaiddragon (May 13, 2008)

when i believed, i thought that god must love us as a whole, not neccesarily (holy shit i spelled it right first try! yay me) as individuals, kinda like an ant farm...

it really is a lonely feeling, coming to understand that there is no entity watching over you, or whatever dogma you were taught to believe...

no wonder people fight so hard to hold on to the delusion...


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## email468 (May 13, 2008)

jaiddragon said:


> when i believed, i thought that god must love us as a whole, not neccesarily (holy shit i spelled it right first try! yay me) as individuals, kinda like an ant farm...
> 
> it really is a lonely feeling, coming to understand that there is no entity watching over you, or whatever dogma you were taught to believe...
> 
> no wonder people fight so hard to hold on to the delusion...


The "God as ant farmer" idea is far more frightening that being alone (to me at least).


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## ZenMaster (May 13, 2008)

email468 said:


> Unless I'm mistaken, you obviously have very deep-seated religious beliefs that are Christian in flavor. I'm not sure if I've asked this before, but I am curious about your username: ZenMaster. I'm wondering how you can marry being a ZenMaster with being a devout Christian?
> 
> None of my damn business is, of course, an acceptable answer but you seem willing to share your other beliefs so I figured I'd ask.


Well your right, Zen is the enlightenment that Buddhism strives for and they typically go against all forms of religion. I respect and understand their quest to expand their understanding of the universe and matter that connects everyone, however I believe I am more enlightened than them and recognize that our universe has an architect and God is involved in our lives. Thus I have become the ZenMaster . Slightly conceded but I think a marriage of Zen and God is a great duo.



Yondaime said:


> ZenMasteR: I think you missed the toke and talk section, this is the spirituality, sexuality and philosophy section


Okay..?



email468 said:


> The real question is why would God need to get his Son involved at all. If God is perfect (not capable of making mistakes) then His creations (us) would also be incapable of making mistakes. Or if that isn't logical enough how about this one - why couldn't God just forgive us without the Jesus thing - wouldn't an all-powerful God just be able to forgive and have done with it - i mean if He is omniscient He would already know what fuck-ups we'd turn out to be so why not just go ahead and correct his mistake (or would that require Him admitting He is not infallible).


Well first off, God is perfect, however we are not, we are given free will. You have to think about it, what would be the point? We are born into a perfect world with no trials to test our character or anything, we simply exist and die? Sure God could have created that world, but what would be the point, to have no free will? I believe this world is merely a test, a stage to see how well we performed in this rat race. But the answer will always be the same, we could have done better. Why God needed Jesus? Because we are human, we have to have something. We are a very tribal civilization that revolve around idols and symbols, and we are united under the cross.




email468 said:


> I have heard that God is all-knowing, all-loving and all-powerful. To which I call bullshit. If he were all-loving there is no possible way He'd allow the horrible things that happen in this world. And if he is all-loving then He either doesn't know about it (so He isn't all-knowing) or can't do anything about it (so He isn't all-powerful).


Why do you blame it on God? Instead pray for those who lack God and are full of greed. In the end, they will be judged. 




email468 said:


> Hmmm. I could go on and on and on but i think you get the picture. OK one more... God can't be all-knowing/omniscient - otherwise He wouldn't keep acting all surprised when we screw up (ala The Big Flood)... wouldn't He have seen that one coming?


I'm not sure if he is omniscient, I think he has so much wisdom, that he basically seems omniscient. In the garden of eden, he had Adam name all the animals in the kingdom, it was kind of entertaining to God, but he didn't know what Adam would choose to call, say a lion. And I do think he was surprised at the amount of evil we were capable of.


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## trishmybiscuits (May 13, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> Christianity debunked? Thats a huge joke
> 
> Yet another atheist, angry at religion. And he thinks he is earth's scientific representative and historian...


Nice job of quoting out of context to meet your own agenda. Nice job of seeing only what you want to see.


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## trishmybiscuits (May 13, 2008)

daydrops said:


> debunked? please. the writer is obviously ignorant of christianity and probably every other religion. this could logically be called a rant about mysticism in general. but none of the points that he raised have any type of validity to a Christian


No validity? The point that if the Christian god and his son were who the Christians say they were, there should be certain things that we should see when we look back to the time of Jesus, well, that's not a valid point, huh?

See only what you want to see, my friend.


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## Yondaime (May 14, 2008)

email468 said:


> The real question is why would God need to get his Son involved at all. If God is perfect (not capable of making mistakes) then His creations (us) would also be incapable of making mistakes. Or if that isn't logical enough how about this one - why couldn't God just forgive us without the Jesus thing - wouldn't an all-powerful God just be able to forgive and have done with it - i mean if He is omniscient He would already know what fuck-ups we'd turn out to be so why not just go ahead and correct his mistake (or would that require Him admitting He is not infallible).


There is an answer to that, which makes the idea of him sending his son quite ingenious and also necessary to accomplish his goals.. It was the reason why I found the idea of Jesus credible and the reason I was able to understand why it has to be that way when I was not so convinced and rebellious of the idea of God having a son that was actually him at the same time..


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## Yondaime (May 14, 2008)

email468 said:


> Hmmm. I could go on and on and on but i think you get the picture. OK one more... God can't be all-knowing/omniscient - otherwise He wouldn't keep acting all surprised when we screw up (ala The Big Flood)... wouldn't He have seen that one coming?


Ever seen the movie - The Butterfly Effect ?


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## Yondaime (May 14, 2008)

as for trishmybiscuits, I may see only what I want to see, but you my friend are blind.


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> There is an answer to that, which makes the idea of him sending his son quite ingenious and also necessary to accomplish his goals.. It was the reason why I found the idea of Jesus credible and the reason I was able to understand why it has to be that way when I was not so convinced and rebellious of the idea of God having a son that was actually him at the same time..


If there is an answer.... I am all ears.


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> Ever seen the movie - The Butterfly Effect ?


Again - we're talking about God here - He IS the butterfly effect and He can control and change anything including the butterfly effect. If God is beholden to nature's laws then He ain't any more or better than us humans or any other of nature's creatures, right? otherwise He'd just be another being and not God.


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> Well your right, Zen is the enlightenment that Buddhism strives for and they typically go against all forms of religion. I respect and understand their quest to expand their understanding of the universe and matter that connects everyone, however I believe I am more enlightened than them and recognize that our universe has an architect and God is involved in our lives. Thus I have become the ZenMaster . Slightly conceded but I think a marriage of Zen and God is a great duo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well ZenMaster you certainly have an interesting take on things and I appreciate your sharing them. I guess interpreting and modifying the biblical God so much as to be unrecognizable is one way of being spiritual and then you can always say - well most Christians believe that - but i am not one of those kind of Christians - i am more enlightened than them.

Have you read both the old and new testaments? I recommend reading the bible straight through. I recommend this because we need more atheists.


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## 40acres (May 14, 2008)

Are you guys still arguing over jesus?


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## We TaRdED (May 14, 2008)

After watching this movie I have been very conflicted with my idea's on my religion..

start watching after 9mins
Zeitgeist - The Movie

If you are a devout religious person I would love to hear your notions on the link that i just gave. Please explain to me how I can accept religion after watching it... Which religion is the 'right' one? I guess I'm just simple minded and blind.

edit- actually start watching at 14mins if you dont want to be offended....


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

40acres said:


> Are you guys still arguing over jesus?


It does hone your thinking and reasoning skills to debate over the internet. Some of the debate devolves into arguing but for the most part it remains civil. 

Now threatening or being a tough guy on the internet....


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## We TaRdED (May 14, 2008)

email468 said:


> Now threatening or being a tough guy on the internet....


You sure about that? lmao, I think lots of ppl try and be 'tough' guys on here.. Like this guy email for an example


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> You sure about that? lmao, I think lots of ppl try and be 'tough' guys on here.. Like this guy email for an example


are you talking to me? i don't see anybody else here so you must be talking to me!


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## We TaRdED (May 14, 2008)

email468 said:


> are you talking to me? i don't see anybody else here so you must be talking to me!


Ohhh shyt.... This guy isn't playing? 

*pulls a couple of emails crazy spikes protruding from the back of his head and stabs him in both of his eyes*......... *than runs like crazy* 

Ok ok..... time to get back on subject... hehe

I would honestly like for a devout religious person to tell me which religion is the 'right' one after watching Zeitgeist - The Movie (start @ 14 mins).... thanks


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## ZenMaster (May 14, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> Ohhh shyt.... This guy isn't playing?
> 
> *pulls a couple of emails crazy spikes protruding from the back of his head and stabs him in both of his eyes*......... *than runs like crazy*
> 
> ...


I don't have to watch that to agree. In fact, in the Book of Revelations, with the second coming, he looks to every church and denounces them, because they each had their faults and did not live to the God's standards.


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## We TaRdED (May 14, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> I don't have to watch that to agree. In fact, in the Book of Revelations, with the second coming, he looks to every church and denounces them, because they each had their faults and did not live to the God's standards.


Your missing out if you don't watch it. Or maybe not, idk if you could handle it

So whats your religion? I'm guessing Christian, but there are many branches of Christianity, so which one is yours/'right'? heh


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## ZenMaster (May 14, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> Your missing out if you don't watch it. Or maybe not, idk if you could handle it
> 
> So whats your religion? I'm guessing Christian, but there are many branches of Christianity, so which one is yours/'right'? heh


Thats the thing, I think they all have their faults, so I guess by default, non-denominational. I think at the core, church is a good thing, it creates a good community and helps better understand The Bible. However when they try to impose on people their interpretation of The Bible and they're own take on how you should live, is where I disagree. I'm freelance.


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## Yondaime (May 14, 2008)

email468 said:


> Again - we're talking about God here - He IS the butterfly effect and He can control and change anything including the butterfly effect. If God is beholden to nature's laws then He ain't any more or better than us humans or any other of nature's creatures, right? otherwise He'd just be another being and not God.


Not speaking as a Christian but speaking strictly in religious doctrine - God exists outside of space and time, yes he can control and change anything he desires but for in our environment the butterfly effect still takes place, if God does have a plan for humanity, and if the end of time is the harvest then everything that happens in humanity's lifespan is to fulfill the ultimate goal which has not been revealed to us.

If we assume that as God's agenda (a plan for our existence and a culmination of that plan in the end) then everything good and everything evil in life is for his purpose, and since a perfect God is not going to do all of this in vain then everything including the great flood happened for a reason, for our benefit and all those that were effected by the story or the flood itself and is part of God's plan from the beginning.

Lets not forget that the character that the term God entails in the Christian perspective is the creator of the universe, the greatest strategist and the most intelligent being there is in existence, he did after all create all the phenomenons and ingenious creations and systems of the world and of the universe and everything works together perfectly - so we have to acknowledge that there is a bigger picture to our purpose on this earth. 

If you are not convinced of this idea of God, I can give you quotes all day to support my claim.



Colossians 1:16 - King James Version said:


> For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him.


All things were created by Him, and for him. This includes evil, he plans and calculates everything up to the finest detail including the ripple effects of evil and even the flood. And he would have known that Adam and Eve were going to eat of the forbidden fruit, there would be no point to creating them if they didn't..

As for your answer, its quite long and I don't know if I want to invest that much time in typing it, since you will probably write it off before you even read it- leaving time spent in vain :/


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## Yondaime (May 14, 2008)

> Why God needed Jesus? Because we are human, we have to have something. We are a very tribal civilization that revolve around idols and symbols, and we are united under the cross.


...but due to that retarded response maybe I will have to give you that answer email >_>


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> ...but due to that retarded response maybe I will have to give you that answer email >_>


I did not write that response (but i think you know that).

To be clear, the things I have been posting on this thread pertains to the "debunking of Christianity" which I take to mean mainstream Christianity which does agree on all the "biggies" like Christ's divinity and the only way to heaven is through believing in the trinity, the infallibility of God, etc...

As soon as we venture into the "most Christian's might believe that but I don't" conversation then we are off topic and no longer discussing the biblical God and literal interpretation of the bible which is what this thread seemed to be about.

If you want to discuss a more philosophical god then that is fine too provided we understand that we are no longer in the realm of the bible and christ and an interventionist deity. We can talk about an inter-dimensional being that has orchestrated all the universe but it seems to me that all that amounts to is excuse making for a god that doesn't really need to exist except as a comfort for us or as some kind of cosmic judge and rule maker.

I would not condemn someone for blazing their own spiritual path - in fact I encourage it. At least until their own spiritual path becomes the "one true way". As for me, I like to have evidence before I believe something but evidence isn't always readily available which means I have to deal with a lot of uncertainty in my life and philosophies. I am comfortable with that but not everyone is and I don't expect them to be.

What I do condemn is a faith (belief without evidence) so strong that no amount of contradictory evidence will make a dent in that faith. And I doubly condemn thinking this stubborn self-inflicted ignorance is some kind of virtue.

I hope this clears up any misconceptions about what I am saying as it pertains to the thread's original meaning.


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## PoseidonsNet (May 14, 2008)

debunked? 
well most of the world has not noticed

*http://www.2010-south-africa.net/world/Statistics.htm%20*


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> debunked?
> well most of the world has not noticed
> 
> *http://www.2010-south-africa.net/world/Statistics.htm%20*


The number of people who believe is not relevant to reality. Many, many more folks are not Christian - does that mean they are right because of their numbers?


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## PoseidonsNet (May 14, 2008)

> The number of people who believe is not relevant to reality


So if mosy people BELIEVE that killing one another is wrong - then that is not going to effect reality?

What a world...


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> So if mosy people BELIEVE that killing one another is wrong - then that is not going to effect reality?
> 
> What a world...


Effect does not equal relevant.

I did not say the number of people who believe (or disbelieve) would not affect reality - i said it is not relevant to reality.

I am fully aware that what people perceive as real is real in its consequences (with apologies to R.D. Lang for the paraphrase).

If people believed the moon is made of cheese we might try to go there to harvest it but that doesn't mean the moon is really made of cheese.


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## PoseidonsNet (May 14, 2008)

> I did not say the number of people who believe (or disbelieve) would not affect reality - i said it is not relevant to reality.


So the effect things have is not relevant then...?


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> So the effect things have is not relevant then...?


I still did not say that but I think i see where the confusion is at... I said: The number of people who believe is not relevant to reality. I think you inferred that to mean - the number of people who believe is not relevant to the reality around them. My meaning was: The number of people who believe is not relevant to (the) reality _of whether God exists or not_. Sorry for any confusion my leaving that off has caused.

In case there is still confusion, I'll try again.
Let's pretend that in reality the moon is made up of rock and dust.
Let's also pretend that nearly everyone believes the moon is made of cheese.

Would people's belief affect how they view and think about the moon? YES.
Would people's belief that the moon is made of cheese be relevant to what the moon is actually made of? NO - it is still made of rock and dust not cheese - regardless how many people believe otherwise.


now to transpose this onto religious thinking...

Would people's belief in God affect the way they deal with other people and themselves? YES
Would people's belief in God be relevant to whether God exists or not? NO

does that make sense?


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## PoseidonsNet (May 14, 2008)

> Would people's belief in God be relevant to whether God exists or not? NO


You beg the question : You assume God does not exist, then 'prove' this based on your assumption.
If you were God, and you creation did not believe in you, you would turn your back, and as regards your people, you would not exist. : ARMAGEDDON.

*If I can prove the moon is made of cheese will you TRY to believe in God?*


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## ZenMaster (May 14, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> ...but due to that retarded response maybe I will have to give you that answer email >_>


Excuse me? Who the hell do you think you are?

You obviously don't understand what I mean then. Why do you think that sacrifice was all over the Old Testament? Because we are a very tribal civilization even today, we, humans, have to have symbols and idols.


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> You beg the question : You assume God does not exist, then 'prove' this based on your assumption.
> If you were God, and you creation did not believe in you, you would turn your back, and as regards your people, you would not exist. : ARMAGEDDON.
> 
> *If I can prove the moon is made of cheese will you TRY to believe in God?*


You are still misunderstanding me. I am basing all assumptions on we don't know if god exists or not. All i am saying is everyone in the entire world could belief in a god but that doesn't make it so.

Look at how many folks have believed in Zeus, Thor or dare I say ... Poseidon - that doesn't make those gods any more real than the biblical god of Abraham.

There are many things that would persuade me that a god or godlike entity exists. False claims are most definitely not one of them.

Is there any evidence I can present that will cause you to not believe in god?


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## PoseidonsNet (May 14, 2008)

> Is there any evidence I can present that will cause you to not believe in god?


Yes...
Logic.

Logic is also known as logos : the ordering factor of the universe : AKA : (___) fill in the missing word.

IE your assumption would undermine your question on the basis that in order to answer the question (or any question) one would have to assume logos exists.

*If I can prove the moon is made of cheese will you TRY to believe in God?*


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> Yes...
> Logic.
> 
> Logic is also known as logos : the ordering factor of the universe : AKA : (___) fill in the missing word.
> ...


Huh? Are you saying that if there is logic then there has to be a god? how do you figure that? rather than Greek you may want to look up some Latin like Post hoc ergo propter hoc

and by all means prove the moon is made of cheese - NASA will be highly interested.


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## PoseidonsNet (May 14, 2008)

God is defined as the ordering factor of the universe : Omnipotent and Omnipresent.

And I'll only prove the moon is made of cheese if you promise to try and believe in God.

o and I'm not saying the whole moon is cheese, the force of gravity would rip it apart then we would have a ring like saturn, only ours would be cheese.

what i'm saying is the surface layer is cheese. and not just any cheese, grommit, its swiss cheese!

Do you believe me yet?


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> God is defined as the ordering factor of the universe : Omnipotent and Omnipresent.
> 
> And I'll only prove the moon is made of cheese if you promise to try and believe in God.
> 
> ...


Nature's laws are the ordering factor of the universe: knowable and immutable with or without a god.
But that is a neat trick defining something that hasn't even been proven to exist.

I can't promise to try to believe in God anymore than I can promise to believe in anything without evidence. I can promise if I see evidence for God I will consider it exists - provided there is no natural explanation.

Short of redefining the meaning of cheese to something other than a dairy product (or the moon as something other than the moon), it is not possible to provide evidence that the moon is made of cheese. But I'm waiting....


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## PoseidonsNet (May 14, 2008)

You haven't promised to *try* yet email468...

... i am waiting too ...

its almost full cheese (I mean moon) tonite

God is defined as the laws of nature, but more than that - because God is also the laws of nature which we do not understand. We are debating the meaning of words, actually.


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> You haven't promised to *try* yet email468...
> 
> ... i am waiting too ...
> 
> ...


Why would I try to believe in something that I don't think exists? That makes no sense to me at all. 

We aren't debating the meaning of words. Or at least I hope we aren't wasting our time that way.
You presume the existence of god and I do not. How can god be the laws of nature if god doesn't exist?


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## PoseidonsNet (May 14, 2008)

> How can god be the laws of nature if god doesn't exist?


because god IS a word used to describe the laws of nature that go beyond our immediate understanding.



> Why would I try to believe in something that I don't think exists?


If you were not capable of trying to believe in new things (that you don't think exist) then you will never learn anything new, as you will then only ever believe that which you already know.


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> because god IS a word used to describe the laws of nature that go beyond our immediate understanding.
> 
> 
> If you were not capable of trying to believe in new things (that you don't think exist) then you will never learn anything new, as you will then only ever believe that which you already know.


God of the gaps!?! that is what you're arguing for? what we don't understand yet must be god? please tell me you have more substance to your argument for god.

I have looked into this god thing and found the evidence lacking and therefore, currently do not believe. If evidence is presented, I will reconsider my stance. How does that stop me from learning new things?


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## PoseidonsNet (May 14, 2008)

> what we don't understand yet must be god?


we infer god exists because absolute logic (logos) exists.
more like an argument from design.

ever noticed how the sun and the moon are the same size in the sky?
what are the odds that that is a random FACT?

more like the solar system was designed, just like the laws of nature were designed.
pythagorus' triangle is more evidence.



> If evidence is presented, I will reconsider my stance. How does that stop me from learning new things?


thats great, so you promise to just try then?


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> we infer god exists because absolute logic (logos) exists.
> more like an argument from design.
> 
> ever noticed how the sun and the moon are the same size in the sky?
> ...


OK - the watchmaker argument - at least that has a few more legs than the god of the gaps. The argument does not have enough legs to stand on - but at least makes some good points instead of the "god did it" argument. An inference is not scientific evidence. We could have god without absolute logic and we could have absolute logic without god. Not sure where you see the two are inseparable as there is no evidence that either even exist - let alone dependent on one another. 

Let's talk about odds. In an infinite universe, the nearly impossible becomes not only possible but likely. If the moon were a bit further or closer, we would choose some other celestial object with which to make the comparison and be amazed at the coincidence. The fact is, the moon is moving away from the Earth so in a short time (astronomically speaking) the moon will no longer be the same apparent size as the sun. No more total solar eclipses! so the random (yes it is random) fact will no longer be factual.. so is it a coincidence? I would say yes.

with all the things floating around out there it would be more amazing if these coincidences did NOT occur.


Perhaps the laws of nature must be the way they are in order for life to exist. Another words, a structured universe may have to exist in order for us to exist but that is hardly proof of god.

Or think about it this way... 99.99999999 (and many more 9's)% of the universe is hostile to humanity and would kill us nearly instantly. But black-holes thrive in our universe.

Logic would dictate that the universe is therefore here for black holes and humanity is just a by-product of black hole production.


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## PoseidonsNet (May 14, 2008)

> An inference is not scientific evidence.


we infered that the far side of the moon existed before we saw it empirically. yes inference is like belief, it is based on approximation and statistics for things outside of the tiny grasp of our little science.



> We could have god without absolute logic and we could have absolute logic without god.


thats like saying we can have shadow without light or wrong without right.

The moon is still poised mysteriously, what other celestial object would be the same size as the sun if we had no moon? even more mysterious.

More mystery is why the moon is moving away from the earth. Cosmic drag of all those meteors should have a slowing effect.

Another mystery is why the far side of the moon has far less craters than the near side which is less exposed due to the earths gravity.

Why are the meteors striking the near side of the moon so much more than the far side? 

Now there IS a mystery. And the answer is because the moon's surface is made of SWISS cheese. (at least most of it is, gromit)


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## PoseidonsNet (May 14, 2008)

> I'm wondering how you can marry being a ZenMaster with being a devout Christian?


Zen is an ideal state of mind.
Grace is an ideal state of being.
Much of a muchness... but alas one hears not the crying questions of the heathens any longer!
Hark!
Is that a non-believer I see before me?
Nay it is but a computer driven AI component much like a ganglia of neurons wrapped in a pink mushy skin.
Alas! Wo is the world! The END is nigh, for none believeth in thou, o Lord of Hosts!
I'll have to puff some more of the Tree of Life!


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## PoseidonsNet (May 14, 2008)

via con Dios,
amigo


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> we infered that the far side of the moon existed before we saw it empirically. yes inference is like belief, it is based on approximation and statistics for things outside of the tiny grasp of our little science.
> 
> 
> thats like saying we can have shadow without light or wrong without right.
> ...


These aren't mysteries at all. Either they are false assumptions or have natural explanations. I hardily recommend some science in your diet!


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> we infered that the far side of the moon existed before we saw it empirically. yes inference is like belief, it is based on approximation and statistics for things outside of the tiny grasp of our little science.
> 
> 
> thats like saying we can have shadow without light or wrong without right.
> ...


Big difference between an inference and a prediction.


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## email468 (May 14, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> Zen is an ideal state of mind.
> Grace is an ideal state of being.
> Much of a muchness... but alas one hears not the crying questions of the heathens any longer!
> Hark!
> ...


Hmmmm. If there is a point here i am missing it. 
I pray (haha) that you are not inferring a life without god means we are reduced to being mere automatons. That will change the nature of our conversation from a good-natured debate to my taking offense.


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## We TaRdED (May 14, 2008)

You should write a book email Or, you could write many books, whatever you choose.


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## email468 (May 15, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> You should write a book email Or, you could write many books, whatever you choose.


Thanks We TaRdED. I must concede that science does not know everything and there may come a time when science comes across phenomena that does not have any natural explanation. Another words, I could very well be wrong and others (like PoseidonsNet) could be very right. Living in uncertainty is one of the prices for following an evidence-based philosophy.


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## PoseidonsNet (May 15, 2008)

> I hardily recommend some science in your diet!


 all I say can be explained in scientific terms, religious terms, statistical terms or logical terms. 



> Big difference between an inference and a prediction.


 - a small neglibible difference



> a life without god means we are reduced to being mere automatons. That will change the nature of our conversation from a good-natured debate to my taking offense


 - well you said it -


> a life without god means we are reduced to being mere automatons


I never saw the reason in taking offence for the sake of any debate. Nonetheless, it seems you are bibliophobic, perhaps as a result of below average religious tuition?

The term 'God' means lots of things to lots of different people. By rejecting the use of _the word, _you inevitably are missing the storyline of this world. Debate what God means, even in raw secular terms, but how can you just brush aside most of this world's history, the very root of the language and literature you are using to express yourself?

One is either Christian, Muslim, Rastafari, or Heathen, make your choice!


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## email468 (May 15, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> all I say can be explained in scientific terms, religious terms, statistical terms or logical terms.
> 
> - a small neglibible difference
> 
> ...


This world has a long history before we humans existed - what was god then? a force, a being, non-existent?

Go ahead and define god in scientific terms.

You can go ahead and choose for me as far as religion goes - i'll prefer to remain uncertain but pretty sure no interventionist sky god exists.


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## ZenMaster (May 15, 2008)

email468 said:


> This world has a long history before we humans existed - what was god then? a force, a being, non-existent?
> 
> Go ahead and define god in scientific terms.
> 
> You can go ahead and choose for me as far as religion goes - i'll prefer to remain uncertain but pretty sure no interventionist sky god exists.


You know it talks about dinosaurs in The Bible right?


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## email468 (May 15, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> You know it talks about dinosaurs in The Bible right?


I know the bible talks about whatever anyone wants it to talk about.


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## ZenMaster (May 15, 2008)

email468 said:


> I know the bible talks about whatever anyone wants it to talk about.


"Interesting, I wonder how people from way back then knew about dinosaurs.."

is what your supposed to say


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## PolyploidyPrince (May 15, 2008)

Wow....lots of religious(semi-fanatical) people on this site. I just read through this whole thing and I just keep thinking back to Scientology....You know the religion that was started by the SCIENCE FICTION writer L.Ron.Hubbard, and that maybe in another 2000 years people will believe we're all infected with alien ghosts that an evil galactic entity trapped on this planet. And all that other crap he wrote....maybe Battlefield Earth will be the next Bible.....anyway religion in general is not my cup o tea, We're on this planet for a short time and I'd rather not waste my 10 minutes.


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## email468 (May 15, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> "Interesting, I wonder how people from way back then knew about dinosaurs.."
> 
> is what your supposed to say


sorry. Hmmm - I wonder how people from way back then knew about dinosaurs?


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## Yondaime (May 16, 2008)

Well the bible talks about behemoths in Job which is believed to be the oldest book in the bible, but callin' em dinosaurs is just interpretation


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## Yondaime (May 16, 2008)

email468 said:


> This world has a long history before we humans existed - what was god then? a force, a being, non-existent?


Isaiah 44:6 - Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Revelation 1:8 - I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Malachi 3:6 - For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

God can be defined as an omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient[SIZE=-1] entity that has always been and will always be, and he does not change.


[/SIZE]


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## email468 (May 16, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> Isaiah 44:6 - Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
> 
> Revelation 1:8 - I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
> 
> ...


I read those quotes, but to me those are just words written by men that offer no proof, facts, or evidence. Just statements with no citations at all. You could just as easily quote the Koran, Bhagavad Gita, Book of Thoth, or Mark Twain and they are equally supported by the evidence... that is - not at all.

And how could he not change if he had a Son that was a human for awhile and now the human, the human's ghost (yeah right) and god are together again. That sounds like changing to me. He also changed his tune from "an eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek". He also made a few mistakes. The biggest one was putting a Tree of Knowledge right in the middle of Adam and Eve's territory and pretended like they wouldn't eat of the fruit. I mean come on god - everyone knows you tell kids not to do something ... what do they do?


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## We TaRdED (May 16, 2008)

email468 said:


> I read those quotes, but to me those are just words written by men that offer no proof, facts, or evidence. Just statements with no citations at all. You could just as easily quote the Koran, Bhagavad Gita, Book of Thoth, or Mark Twain and they are equally supported by the evidence... that is - not at all.


Sad but true

Find your inner God and cherish that. This universe is too complex for there not to be some kind of creator. Just look think about what was before the big bang- it was known as 'Singularity'. There is something, I'm just not sure what God actually is, myself. 

I'm not saying religion is bad, but it has been used in deceitful ways to control people and 'impose' another tax on them. If you are religious, Just keep an open mind and think about all the different religions that think theirs is right/the way to heaven too..

My question is, which one is the gateway to heaven? 

Start watching this vid at 18 mins Zeitgeist - The Movie

Peace


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## IheartKeif (May 16, 2008)

Email468, You don't understand because reading things in the Bible for you is like reading other peoples mail. Your not a believer so your not going to get it. You go through life using your head to figure everything out. God calls us to use our heart as well. Its comments like that that make you shake your head huh? Not everything is black and white, not everything has to be analytical. I can only speak for myself but I cant explain everything, I don't have all the answers. I know God exists through the unexplainable feelings I have experienced in life. Its just like falling in love with someone. You cant explain why one person gives you an intense personal feeling and with a similar person theres nothing. Life's not a big math problem you need to solve my friend. Its an experience. 
But like I said, I don't know everything.


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## email468 (May 16, 2008)

IheartKeif said:


> Email468, You don't understand because reading things in the Bible for you is like reading other peoples mail. Your not a believer so your not going to get it. You go through life using your head to figure everything out. God calls us to use our heart as well. Its comments like that that make you shake your head huh? Not everything is black and white, not everything has to be analytical. I can only speak for myself but I cant explain everything, I don't have all the answers. I know God exists through the unexplainable feelings I have experienced in life. Its just like falling in love with someone. You cant explain why one person gives you an intense personal feeling and with a similar person theres nothing. Life's not a big math problem you need to solve my friend. Its an experience.
> But like I said, I don't know everything.


I don't know everything either and am often wrong. Though i will point out that living an analytical life is not black & white - it is living in the grey more than anything else. Being analytical means being ever-ready to change your mind if the evidence dictates. One quick example - i don't know if god exists - you seem rather certain. Who is looking at things in a black&white way?

I also understand that you are sharing a personal experience that brings you great pleasure and would like me to share it also and i really do appreciate the sentiment. If it is any consolation, i also have epiphanies and wonderful feelings of oneness and bliss.... with no belief in god. I think it is a common human experience.

I do understand what you're saying - personal experience is very powerful and convincing and I wish you nothing but joy and happiness.


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## email468 (May 16, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> This universe is too complex for there not to be some kind of creator. Just look think about what was before the big bang- it was known as 'Singularity'. There is something, I'm just not sure what God actually is, myself.


We know that something happened since we are here. But wouldn't a god add an additional layer of complexity rather than eliminate one - i mean what created god? and why is god creating itself any more or less complex and weird than the singularity resulting in the universes expansion?

We are getting closer and closer to understanding that event. What happens when we can pretty fully explain the big bang (i really hate that term - damn you fred hoyle!) and the origins of the singularity? What mystery will remain that can hide god?


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## Yondaime (May 16, 2008)

email468 said:


> And how could he not change if he had a Son that was a human for awhile and now the human, the human's ghost (yeah right) and god are together again. That sounds like changing to me. He also changed his tune from "an eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek". He also made a few mistakes. The biggest one was putting a Tree of Knowledge right in the middle of Adam and Eve's territory and pretended like they wouldn't eat of the fruit. I mean come on god - everyone knows you tell kids not to do something ... what do they do?


Haha.. No man, Jesus is God and God is Jesus, God never changed he just manifested. Jesus is part of the trinity of the father, the son and the holy spirit which all three are one.

And by the way, If I haven't said this before, im not speaking about my opinion or as if to prove something to you - I'm speaking through religious doctrine that I can back up with scripture...


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## Yondaime (May 16, 2008)

email468 said:


> And how could he not change if he had a Son that was a human for awhile and now the human, the human's ghost (yeah right) and god are together again. That sounds like changing to me. He also changed his tune from "an eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek". He also made a few mistakes. The biggest one was putting a Tree of Knowledge right in the middle of Adam and Eve's territory and pretended like they wouldn't eat of the fruit. I mean come on god - everyone knows you tell kids not to do something ... what do they do?


As for making mistakes, as I already explained, Everything that he does, he has a plan for - nothing of it he does in vain and everything that has happened so far was MEANT to happen.. 

As a perfect God, when thinking about this in theory, he would make NO mistakes, so anything we perceive as a mistake we must assume he intended or if not intended, knew it would happen as a result.. We are talking about the same guy that is supposed to have created this universe, which is an incredible intellectual feat and we would have to assume that he uses the same intelligence in every aspect of thinking not just in creation..


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## email468 (May 16, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> Haha.. No man, Jesus is God and God is Jesus, God never changed he just manifested. Jesus is part of the trinity of the father, the son and the holy spirit which all three are one.
> 
> And by the way, If I haven't said this before, im not speaking about my opinion or as if to prove something to you - I'm speaking through religious doctrine that I can back up with scripture...


a lot of completely opposing viewpoints can be backed up by scripture. you can twist scripture to condone slavery, racism, capital punishment, etc.. or you can twist it to condemn slavery, racism, capital punishment, etc...

what you say about the trinity is your interpretation. granted that many others interpret it that way too - but it is still just one interpretation, right? Really, if they (god, jesus, ghost) are all the same then why bother to send Jesus? Something must be different otherwise it wouldn't have been necessary.

And why is blaspheming the holy ghost the one unforgivable sin? could it be related to the most non-sensical and most difficult part to believe? plus if they are all the same then blaspheming jesus or god would also be unforgivable but the scripture doesn't say that.

It's not like I haven't read the bible - in fact i still enjoy reading it now and then (especially the Song of Solomon - i think it is kind of sexy and Revelations - just whacky shit there).


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## We TaRdED (May 16, 2008)

Good question. If I wasn't stoned I might have a better answer

Its not that the big bang theory is 'hiding' God, its the chances of all this being pulled together and creating us. Look at us, we are sitting in our homes typing on computers from different parts of the world to communicate ideas. Don't you find that amazing? In all the nothingness of space and time, we are here..... right now. 

Curtailed- Don't you think its incredible that from an enormous explosion with just the basic elements(hydrogen) being pulled together from gravity eventually formed suns. These suns then, in turn, started started spewing forth more complex elements from the nuclear fusion process and after billions of years life started. Then we eventually evolve into our complex beings, sitting here typing away over the internet to discus religion. 

And just because we can define and describe such things as evolution, have you ever wondered if we are merely defining/describing Gods work? 

I have my doubts about the God that I learned when I was a kid. I don't understand why the way of the world is, and why God has not interjected the evils that are prospering. 

I like to think that there is a soul to me. I like to think that I'm not just a body with a mind that will disappear as soon as I expire. But what I like to think and whats reality might be different things. 

*Are you spiritual at all email?* I'm lost right now as far as God goes(who is He, where he came from/is, what his motives are, etc), but I would like to hope that there is a divine purpose to everyone of us. 

If this doesn't make sense its because I'm really baked. But I can understand it right now





email468 said:


> We are getting closer and closer to understanding that event. What happens when we can pretty fully explain the big bang (i really hate that term - damn you fred hoyle!) and the origins of the singularity? What mystery will remain that can hide god?


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## Yondaime (May 16, 2008)

email468 said:


> what you say about the trinity is your interpretation. granted that many others interpret it that way too - but it is still just one interpretation, right? Really, if they (god, jesus, ghost) are all the same then why bother to send Jesus? Something must be different otherwise it wouldn't have been necessary.
> 
> And why is blaspheming the holy ghost the one unforgivable sin? could it be related to the most non-sensical and most difficult part to believe? plus if they are all the same then blaspheming jesus or god would also be unforgivable but the scripture doesn't say that.


Its easy to avoid everything anyone says with a "well thats just your interpretation" isn't it? And for your information, no that is not my interpretation, that is what the trinity is, go look it up in your reference books smart guy..

Why would you as an atheist care if blaspheming the Holy Ghost is an unforgivable sin, do you want to do it now just because your told not to?


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## Yondaime (May 16, 2008)

email468 said:


> Really, if they (god, jesus, ghost) are all the same then why bother to send Jesus? Something must be different otherwise it wouldn't have been necessary.


You bother to send Jesus, because he is the messiah, who fulfills the prophecies* and who teaches the world non-violence, tolerance, faith and gives billions of people worldwide hope, inspiration and a message from God? He also sparked a change in society (Christianity) that led up to the slightly morally developed world we live in today where you can survive as an atheist without having the Jewish councils or religious fanatics stone you legally for blasphemy or nail you to a cross because you have a different message about life.. It also has a huge connection with original sin that I would explain to you, but as I said earlier you will probably just shrug it off with "but thats just an interpretation"..

*Jesus actually had to be quite a few things according to prophecies in the old testament to be considered as a credible messiah according to religious prophecies


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## email468 (May 16, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> Its easy to avoid everything anyone says with a "well thats just your interpretation" isn't it? And for your information, no that is not my interpretation, that is what the trinity is, go look it up in your reference books smart guy..
> 
> Why would you as an atheist care if blaspheming the Holy Ghost is an unforgivable sin, do you want to do it now just because your told not to?


You're right - I personally don't care. Believe what you want but I'm not the one that founded other Christian sects that have a different interpretation of the trinity. It is all a bunch of hogwash to me.

Why would i worry about blaspheming anything. I'm not that petty - or at least I hope i'm not that petty.


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## email468 (May 16, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> You bother to send Jesus, because he is the messiah, who fulfills the prophecies* and who teaches the world non-violence, tolerance, faith and gives billions of people worldwide hope, inspiration and a message from God? He also sparked a change in society (Christianity) that led up to the slightly morally developed world we live in today where you can survive as an atheist without having the Jewish councils or religious fanatics stone you legally for blasphemy or nail you to a cross because you have a different message about life.. It also has a huge connection with original sin that I would explain to you, but as I said earlier you will probably just shrug it off with "but thats just an interpretation"..
> 
> *Jesus actually had to be quite a few things according to prophecies in the old testament to be considered as a credible messiah according to religious prophecies


I guess you're conveniently forgetting that i would have been burned at the stake for expounding my beliefs by Christians, up until about 200 years ago.

I am not saying there is no good to Christianity but the good vs. the bad is certainly debatable. And Christianity did not invent non-violence, tolerance and faith. Speaking of faith - i would consider holding up faith as a virtue as one of the most vile things Christianity (or any religion) has done.

Your assertion that Christianity gave us the world we are living with today is highly debatable if not outright preposterous. It was reason and enlightenment that broke the shackles of faith that allowed us to live in the modern world. It wasn't until monks, scientists, and other "renaissance" folks started looking at the ancient/classical learning (Greek and Roman NOT christian/judaic) the world became modern.

Please note that the Pharisees (Jewish high priests) care about what other Jews do - they never had jurisdiction over large numbers of goyim.


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## b549420 (May 16, 2008)

We've been in a holy war since God casted Satan (once an angel) into the pits of hell. Jesus was just a form of the Father. Sent to Earth with a message for all of us. The vague beliefs that we shower ourselves with is understandable. Everything in the old testament actually happened however. You can follow humanity and the world we live in today right along with the good book. The fact is no one will know until new modern day pages of the bible are written. If your ever smoking some weed in a grave yard and bodies raise from the ground, you atheist can eat your words. You can talk about it all you want to, but until our times up, were going to continue to be in the dark.


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## email468 (May 16, 2008)

b549420 said:


> We've been in a holy war since God casted Satan (once an angel) into the pits of hell. Jesus was just a form of the Father. Sent to Earth with a message for all of us. The vague beliefs that we shower ourselves with is understandable. Everything in the old testament actually happened however. You can follow humanity and the world we live in today right along with the good book. The fact is no one will know until new modern day pages of the bible are written. If your ever smoking some weed in a grave yard and bodies raise from the ground, you atheist can eat your words. You can talk about it all you want to, but until our times up, were going to continue to be in the dark.


Well I guess I have received my comeuppance. Thank you for clearing that up and ending this futile debate.

Christians.. meet your spokesperson.


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## IheartKeif (May 16, 2008)

468, Thats really not a nice thing to say. I have watched your guys verbal masterbation go back and forth and would think you would agree to disagree. Life is too short to go through it pointing out what you perceive to be other peoples faults. We all decide how we are going to walk through this journey. I would suggest we show respect and understanding towards each other. 
PS: Dont get stoned in a graveyard, thats just weird.


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## email468 (May 16, 2008)

IheartKeif said:


> 468, Thats really not a nice thing to say. I have watched your guys verbal masterbation go back and forth and would think you would agree to disagree. Life is too short to go through it pointing out what you perceive to be other peoples faults. We all decide how we are going to walk through this journey. I would suggest we show respect and understanding towards each other.
> PS: Dont get stoned in a graveyard, thats just weird.


I treat people with the same amount as I am treated. Perhaps you could re-read what was written from an atheists POV.


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## PoseidonsNet (May 17, 2008)

> Well the bible talks about behemoths in Job which is believed to be the oldest book in the bible, but callin' em dinosaurs is just interpretation


The Behemoth is said to be a common old hippo, but the Leviathon towards the end of Job is the most fascinating. To me, the description of Leviathon is an exact description of an amphibious tank, with a nose that sprouts fire, and it even leaves an oil slick and its tracks are like a threshing sledge : imprinted.

Just weird,
and there is more weird stuff in the Bible than most people realize, even people who claim to have read it.

And as for the moon - and science -
the energy required to move the tides is sapped from the momentum of the moon - another reason why the mood should have plunged into the earth billions of years ago. What is keeping it at bay?
THe same thing that ensures that the far side - the exposed side - has far LESS craters than the near side?


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## PoseidonsNet (May 17, 2008)

God and Science:
Consider Pythagorus' theorem : That the square of the hypoteneuse is the sum of the square of the adjacent and opposite sides.

exactly : a right angle triangle with one side 3m and one side 4m will have the other side exactly 5m. 

Because 3x3 + 4x4 = 5x5

Is that not spectacular evidence that our universe has been perfectly designed?

One's mind must first be open to the possibility of direct communion with 'the helper', before one's faith reaches the point where such wonders occur.

How can faith be bad?
You have been twisted 468.


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## email468 (May 17, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> The Behemoth is said to be a common old hippo, but the Leviathon towards the end of Job is the most fascinating. To me, the description of Leviathon is an exact description of an amphibious tank, with a nose that sprouts fire, and it even leaves an oil slick and its tracks are like a threshing sledge : imprinted.
> 
> Just weird,
> and there is more weird stuff in the Bible than most people realize, even people who claim to have read it.
> ...


Yep lots of weird stuff goes on in fairy tales. No argument here.


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## email468 (May 17, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> God and Science:
> Consider Pythagorus' theorem : That the square of the hypoteneuse is the sum of the square of the adjacent and opposite sides.
> 
> exactly : a right angle triangle with one side 3m and one side 4m will have the other side exactly 5m.
> ...


Yes I know I'm twisted. Math works.. that is your argument for God? Yep - i'm twisted alright.

Obviously you are very certain you are correct in what you believe and how you believe it. I concede that I do not have that surety so will readily admit you may very well be right and leave it at that.


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## Barrelhse (May 17, 2008)

"Christianity has been debunked once and for all"..
Thank Christ.


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## trishmybiscuits (May 17, 2008)

40acres said:


> Are you guys still arguing over jesus?


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx(Insert joke here)xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## b549420 (May 18, 2008)

IheartKeif said:


> 468, Thats really not a nice thing to say. I have watched your guys verbal masterbation go back and forth and would think you would agree to disagree. Life is too short to go through it pointing out what you perceive to be other peoples faults. We all decide how we are going to walk through this journey. I would suggest we show respect and understanding towards each other.
> PS: Dont get stoned in a graveyard, thats just weird.


Be open to new things if you would like to "verbal masturbate" and "walk through this journey" as you say. The closed minded statement was dually noted and forgotten. I will refrain from saying what I want because I'm not an American. Oh, I was just born and raised here in Kentucky. Read my mind from here.


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## b549420 (May 18, 2008)

email468 said:


> Well I guess I have received my comeuppance. Thank you for clearing that up and ending this futile debate.
> 
> Christians.. meet your spokesperson.


Thank you so very much for your kind words.


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## b549420 (May 18, 2008)

email468 said:


> I guess you're conveniently forgetting that i would have been burned at the stake for expounding my beliefs by Christians, up until about 200 years ago.
> 
> I am not saying there is no good to Christianity but the good vs. the bad is certainly debatable. And Christianity did not invent non-violence, tolerance and faith. Speaking of faith - i would consider holding up faith as a virtue as one of the most vile things Christianity (or any religion) has done.
> 
> ...


Your right, they sure changed my mind/life and all of the hundred of redneck American friends of mine. (Your opinion) Is always going to be just that.


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## PoseidonsNet (May 19, 2008)

> would have been burned at the stake for expounding my beliefs by Christians, up until about 200 years ago


nowadays they just throw you in jail for smoking pot - welcome to secular blasphemy society


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## trishmybiscuits (May 19, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> And by the way, If I haven't said this before, im not speaking about my opinion or as if to prove something to you - I'm speaking through religious doctrine that I can back up with scripture...


If you're talking about biblical scripture, the bible doesn't have any credibility with me. None. Zilch. Nada.


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## PoseidonsNet (May 19, 2008)

ashes to ashes


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## Rocky Mountain High (May 24, 2008)

god and religion are nothing more than 'santa claus' for adults. he sees you when you are sleeping and knows when you're awake and if you are bad, you don't get a lump of coal for christmas, you get lumped into hell to burn!

If you NEED religion to make you act right, then believe the bull. If not just be a 'good person' and live your life to the fullest.

I saw a comedian recently and he had a good schtick on religion saying that even if you tried to explain it to a child or a retarded person, they would have some serious questions. Moses was how OLD? And he was able to get 2 of everything into the boat? What the hell did they eat, when they normally would eat each other? 

I guess faith can outweigh logic when presented in a nice package, huh?


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## ZenMaster (May 24, 2008)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> god and religion are nothing more than 'santa claus' for adults. he sees you when you are sleeping and knows when you're awake and if you are bad, you don't get a lump of coal for christmas, you get lumped into hell to burn!
> 
> If you NEED religion to make you act right, then believe the bull. If not just be a 'good person' and live your life to the fullest.
> 
> ...


 "You can't prove there's a god, so I'm going to believe the universe is a chance happening and that my life has no meaning because it's a cosmic mistake"


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## babylonburn (May 24, 2008)

christianism is a law....they say lord is dead...ii say you cant take life from the life giver...earth is the lord...


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## Rocky Mountain High (May 25, 2008)

Zen master,

I'm a logical person and there is no PROOF that's why it's called FAITH. You CHOOSE to have it. I CHOOSE not too and all you did was further the article. I'm not trying to get you to NOT BELIEVE so why are you trying to get me to BELIEVE?

I'm not forcing my views down your throat but, just like the article says, you and Christians continually try to push down others, why?

I don't look at people who believe in a negative light at all. Religion provides hope for those who have none and that is a great service, no doubt. I'm not sitting here saying 'oh those crazy Christians' but you are sitting there saying that I'm an idiot for not believing the fairy tale?


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)




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## ZenMaster (May 25, 2008)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> Zen master,
> 
> I'm a logical person and there is no PROOF that's why it's called FAITH. You CHOOSE to have it. I CHOOSE not too and all you did was further the article. I'm not trying to get you to NOT BELIEVE so why are you trying to get me to BELIEVE?
> 
> ...


What? I'm not forcing any view down any throat, you must have recently jumped in this thread because my main argument that this universe is to complex to just happen randomly. Don't get so defensive, I am not a vigilante.


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## We TaRdED (May 25, 2008)

*If people could accept each for who they are than the world would be a better place.* I say let people be, if they feel compelled to learn about Christ or why there religion is a fallacy, than so be it. 

If something is inconclusive than how can we be so adamant? Religion has caused more deaths than than anything else(at least thats what I've heard). 

I don't see why America has he right to impose our ways upon other countries, leave their culture alone, *stop the genocide.* ~lol~ Sorry about the rant...

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## Rocky Mountain High (May 25, 2008)

Zen you are right I did just jump into this thread and I didn't take the time to read the posts from beginning to the end so I could be talking from my arce.

This line made me think you were clowning me, saying oh you don't believe so there is no meaning? 

You can't prove there's a god, so I'm going to believe the universe is a chance happening and that my life has no meaning because it's a cosmic mistake"

Explain to me please? 

Thanks man


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> I don't see why America has he right to impose our ways upon other countries, leave their culture alone, *stop the genocide.* ~lol~ Sorry about the rant...


The US separates church and state - which is why people fight for and against prayer in school, ten commandments in the court house, etc...

no such thing as a national church/religion in the US - it is one of the founding principals.

I don't think the US goes to war to spread any religion or suppress any religion. Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying?


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

Rocky Mountain High said:


> Zen you are right I did just jump into this thread and I didn't take the time to read the posts from beginning to the end so I could be talking from my arce.
> 
> This line made me think you were clowning me, saying oh you don't believe so there is no meaning?
> 
> ...


I think Zen is setting up the false dichotomy (either-or). it is the old "without God where does morality and meaning come from" argument. You can either have God and meaning/morality or you can be godless and without meaning/morals.

When in reality, as you probably know, there are more sides to that coin.


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## We TaRdED (May 25, 2008)

email468 said:


> I don't think the US goes to war to spread any religion or suppress any religion. Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying?


Idk, I might be thinking about it wrong. I just figure after so much time of us having bases in the middle east, and putting allies as their leaders. I can see the McDonald's, Burger king, Walmart, etc etc being built over there within good time. After so many of 'our' companies have been running over there, innately their culture will change due to their new environment. I'm sure it would start slowly, but given the appropriate time, they are going to build like America with malls and etc. 

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> Idk, I might be thinking about it wrong. I just figure after so much time of us having bases in the middle east, and putting allies as their leaders. I can see the McDonald's, Burger king, Walmart, etc etc being built over there within good time. After so many of 'our' companies have been running over there, innately their culture will change due to their new environment. I'm sure it would start slowly, but given the appropriate time, they are going to build like America with malls and etc.
> 
> RON PAUL REVOLUTION
> 
> ~PEACE~


No doubt having those things would change a culture - it certainly changed American culture. But I'm not sure what that would have to do with religion. I mean a McDonalds is not a cathedral and a Wal-Mart is not a mosque. It's not like those places are handing out religious tracts or passing around collection plates. And you sure don't have to go into them.


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## ZenMaster (May 25, 2008)

email468 said:


> I think Zen is setting up the false dichotomy (either-or). it is the old "without God where does morality and meaning come from" argument. You can either have God and meaning/morality or you can be godless and without meaning/morals.
> 
> When in reality, as you probably know, there are more sides to that coin.


That is not correct.

I didn't say anything about morals. I just cannot fathom that we are here for no reason, that all this is just a chance happening. I've said this before- The Earth could not possibly be a better distance from the sun, we have our seasons, our moon, and us as the only intelligent life form on this blue planet. I don't believe we just exist just to live then die. That is what I meant from "my life has no meaning". This is a stage, gentlemen. A test if you will to see how you lived your life given what you were given. You must think out of the box, don't be so wrapped up in your sociological way of life. there is a bigger picture.


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## ZenMaster (May 25, 2008)

email468 said:


> No doubt having those things would change a culture - it certainly changed American culture. But I'm not sure what that would have to do with religion. I mean a McDonalds is not a cathedral and a Wal-Mart is not a mosque. It's not like those places are handing out religious tracts or passing around collection plates. And you sure don't have to go into them.


I know what We meant.

Statistically, more people have died in the name of God than anything else. The only problem with this is that people use the name of God so that it fits their agenda. All the Crusades were ultimately just wars to gain more land and fortune. The Holy Roman Empire used the name of God to intimidate and gain riches from the masses. Its man that is corruptible, not God. The Bible doesn't say go out and kill everyone who is not like you.


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

u cant take life from the life giver....destruction of flesh isnt the ending to life....the devils dead...jah lives....earth is the lord....christianity is a law....ii dont follow laws ii follow laws....who feels it knows it....burn all false kings and queens,burn all false reality...


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> u cant take life from the life giver....destruction of flesh isnt the ending to life....the devils dead...jah lives....earth is the lord....christianity is a law....ii dont follow laws ii follow laws....who feels it knows it....burn all false kings and queens,burn all false reality...


huh? earth is the lord? christianity is law? I'm not sure what you're saying.


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

christianity is law....simple as that....on every christian book it says edited by king james,etc...false king james is'nt my lord nor savior....earth is the lord...it gives and takes life...it judges...lord lives in us,we give life every day and night,jah works in i....in early days there were false kings and queens...no computers jus a book...so babylon got to the book to get to ure feeling...who feels it knows it and ii feel that life is law,and lord and earth is our "church"...fools go to church on sunday....god is a living man every one looks up...ii look around


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> That is not correct.
> 
> I didn't say anything about morals. I just cannot fathom that we are here for no reason, that all this is just a chance happening. I've said this before- The Earth could not possibly be a better distance from the sun, we have our seasons, our moon, and us as the only intelligent life form on this blue planet. I don't believe we just exist just to live then die. That is what I meant from "my life has no meaning". This is a stage, gentlemen. A test if you will to see how you lived your life given what you were given. You must think out of the box, don't be so wrapped up in your sociological way of life. there is a bigger picture.


you say "that is not correct" and then you proceed exactly as i predicted. you can't see (or believe) that we just exist to live and then die. You can word it how you like but it comes down to - you can't believe this is all there is - so no evidence could convince you otherwise. It is not sociological view of life i am wrapped up in - it is a scientifically skeptical view of EVERYTHING i am wrapped up in.

I added morals because that is the more common version of your argument.


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> christianity is law....simple as that....on every christian book it says edited by king james,etc...false king james is'nt my lord nor savior....earth is the lord...it gives and takes life...it judges...lord lives in us,we give life every day and night,jah works in i....in early days there were false kings and queens...no computers jus a book...so babylon got to the book to get to ure feeling...who feels it knows it and ii feel that life is law,and lord and earth is our "church"...fools go to church on sunday....god is a living man every one looks up...ii look around


Getting a little clearer. Sorry but i have another question... does the bible explain what christianity is or is the bible completely worthless?

I would also mention that not every bible is the "King James edition". I mean there are plenty of re-translated versions available. I would think you'd take more issue with the council of trent if you are concerned with accuracy. Is that what you're saying - the version of the bible is inaccurate?


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

ii couldnt really say....thats why ii couldnt put ii heart and feel in2 that book....nor christianity....even today the laws we are to abide by are somewhat based on the bible...back in the slavery days laws were dictated by the bible....and the white man inslaved a people that looked just like their god"he had hair of wool,skin of bronze"

ii have haIr of wool(iilocks)and skin of bronze and ii am a black man.... so it is hypocritical....and ii dont mix nor mingle with them kinds....


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## ZenMaster (May 25, 2008)

email468 said:


> you say "that is not correct" and then you proceed exactly as i predicted. you can't see (or believe) that we just exist to live and then die. You can word it how you like but it comes down to - you can't believe this is all there is - so no evidence could convince you otherwise. It is not sociological view of life i am wrapped up in - it is a scientifically skeptical view of EVERYTHING i am wrapped up in.
> 
> I added morals because that is the more common version of your argument.


I don't understand your reasoning.

I said nothing of morals and it has absolutely nothing to do with my argument or what I even said, you linked it because you feel like you have a counter argument already prepared.

Also, there is no "evidence" to concede that we are solely dust in the wind. You turn to science when in question however ironically science is merely a feeble desperation attempt on understanding the phenomena that is our existence. You put your "faith" behind mankind, which has proven countless times that man nor science holds any answers.


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## ZenMaster (May 25, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> ii couldnt really say....thats why ii couldnt put ii heart and feel in2 that book....nor christianity....even today the laws we are to abide by are somewhat based on the bible...back in the slavery days laws were dictated by the bible....and the white man inslaved a people that looked just like their god"he had hair of wool,skin of bronze"
> 
> ii have haIr of wool(iilocks)and skin of bronze and ii am a black man.... so it is hypocritical....and ii dont mix nor mingle with them kinds....


You know Moses freed his people (jews) from the Egyptians right? Why do you think its the evil white man that were the only slave owners. Every single race on this planet has been a slave, and has owned a slave.


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

Science Is Nothing But People Without God Trying To Play His Role...trying To Be"creator"...instead They End Up Being Destructor


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> I don't understand your reasoning.
> 
> I said nothing of morals and it has absolutely nothing to do with my argument or what I even said, you linked it because you feel like you have a counter argument already prepared.
> 
> Also, there is no "evidence" to concede that we are solely dust in the wind. You turn to science when in question however ironically science is merely a feeble desperation attempt on understanding the phenomena that is our existence. You put your "faith" behind mankind, which has proven countless times that man nor science holds any answers.


You are mistaken. I turn to science as the only viable option to explain the world around me. It may be feeble and desperate but it is the only viable option as far as i can tell.

I'd rather put my faith in the empirical method than humankind. Having said that, if i had to - i'd rather put my faith in mankind than god since i at least know humankind exists.


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> ii couldnt really say....thats why ii couldnt put ii heart and feel in2 that book....nor christianity....even today the laws we are to abide by are somewhat based on the bible...back in the slavery days laws were dictated by the bible....and the white man inslaved a people that looked just like their god"he had hair of wool,skin of bronze"
> 
> ii have haIr of wool(iilocks)and skin of bronze and ii am a black man.... so it is hypocritical....and ii dont mix nor mingle with them kinds....


so you're a christian that doesn't believe in the bible. and you think the bible has occurrences of white racism with blacks being enslaved by whites.

I'll agree the bible is hypocritical.


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> You know Moses freed his people (jews) from the Egyptians right? Why do you think its the evil white man that were the only slave owners. Every single race on this planet has been a slave, and has owned a slave.


while there is no scientific evidence of Moses or that the jews were enslaved by the Egyptians - yes - that is the story of Exodus.

The whole racial-based slavery thing was a relatively recent development. Used to be you were born into slavery or were forced into it by being conquered (or just plain unlucky).


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## ZenMaster (May 25, 2008)

email468 said:


> You are mistaken. I turn to science as the only viable option to explain the world around me. It may be feeble and desperate but it is the only viable option as far as i can tell.
> 
> I'd rather put my faith in the empirical method than humankind. Having said that, if i had to - i'd rather put my faith in mankind than god since i at least know humankind exists.


If you put your faith behind God, you'll know he exists. Its not a catch-22, if you look to him for help, help will come.


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

When Ii Say Black Ii Talk Of Idians,trinidad,ect. What Color Is Your Shadow?what Color Do You See When You Close Your Eyes Black....ii Know Moses Freed His People...that Just Empowers What Ii Say, Lord Lives Through Us....ii Used That As An Example... How Christains Pick And Choose To Put Themselves In Power....when Have You Seen An African With A Slave?


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

No Ii Am A Rastaman With No Religion Just God...and No Ii Dont Beleive In The Bible...nor Its Editors....nor There Ways...


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> Science Is Nothing But People Without God Trying To Play His Role...trying To Be"creator"...instead They End Up Being Destructor


This is not true at all - there are many religious and spiritual scientists. I may not agree with them but they exist.

Scientists are not trying to "play God" - they aren't Baron Frankenstein. What they are doing is looking (and much to believer's chagrin) finding natural explanations for the world and universe around us.

And if by being a destructor that means they tear down falsehoods and lies then guilty as charged.


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## ZenMaster (May 25, 2008)

email468 said:


> while there is no scientific evidence of Moses or that the jews were enslaved by the Egyptians - yes - that is the story of Exodus.
> 
> The whole racial-based slavery thing was a relatively recent development. Used to be you were born into slavery or were forced into it by being conquered (or just plain unlucky).


Whether you believe in God or not the Bible is a very accurate history book, because it was the very first one to exist. Even skeptical historians concur that the Bible is correct in its following of different regions, kings at the time, and even, the existence of Moses and his exploits.


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> If you put your faith behind God, you'll know he exists. Its not a catch-22, if you look to him for help, help will come.


no i won't KNOW god exists - i'll BELIEVE he exists - therein lies the HUGE difference.


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## ZenMaster (May 25, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> When Ii Say Black Ii Talk Of Idians,trinidad,ect. What Color Is Your Shadow?what Color Do You See When You Close Your Eyes Black....ii Know Moses Freed His People...that Just Empowers What Ii Say, Lord Lives Through Us....ii Used That As An Example... How Christains Pick And Choose To Put Themselves In Power....when Have You Seen An African With A Slave?


Africans owned slaves from different tribes. Same thing with indians.


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

And No Im Talkin Bout People That Follow The Bible Im Not Talkin Bout Us Being Enslaved In The Book Iim Talking Of People That Follow That Book That Have Put That Book In2 Context And Go On Bout There Devilish Ways..all Throught Time


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## ZenMaster (May 25, 2008)

email468 said:


> no i won't KNOW god exists - i'll BELIEVE he exists - therein lies the HUGE difference.


No, thats where you are wrong.

I _know_ beyond a shadow of a doubt, I _know_ just like I _know_ the sky is blue. No worries here.


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> When Ii Say Black Ii Talk Of Idians,trinidad,ect. What Color Is Your Shadow?what Color Do You See When You Close Your Eyes Black....ii Know Moses Freed His People...that Just Empowers What Ii Say, Lord Lives Through Us....ii Used That As An Example... How Christains Pick And Choose To Put Themselves In Power....when Have You Seen An African With A Slave?


Are you talking about all of Africa or just Black Africa? Because the Middle East is also part of Africa. You do realize there were black slave holders in the US before the Civil War? And there is slavery in Africa (and all over the world) right now. The muslims enslaved christians during the crusades. It isn't just a black and white issue - it is a human issue. Every color, race, religion and ethnicity has been enslaved (and owned them). I understand recent history emphasizes the racial aspect, but as i mentioned - throughout written history - that is a relatively recent development.


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> No, thats where you are wrong.
> 
> I _know_ beyond a shadow of a doubt, I _know_ just like I _know_ the sky is blue. No worries here.


no you don't. you think you do but you don't know.

Let's try this..

the only stimuli that tells you god exists for certain is coming from inside you. i know beyond a shadow of a doubt. just like i know the sky is clear but appears blue because of refracted light. no worries here.

see how that works? neither one of us knows for certain - but at least i'm willing to admit it.


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> And No Im Talkin Bout People That Follow The Bible Im Not Talkin Bout Us Being Enslaved In The Book Iim Talking Of People That Follow That Book That Have Put That Book In2 Context And Go On Bout There Devilish Ways..all Throught Time


well you're speaking in riddles and using some circular reasoning there - why not just come out with what you want to say?


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

Ii Never Made It A Fully Black White Issue Ii Used One Issue As A Example...that A Christain Which Could Be A Black,white,mexican...was Enslaving People That Held The Exact Image Of The God They Read Bout Every Day....what Im Saying...exodus Is Saying...is Everyone Has There Place....but Someone Or Two Didnt Listen And Forced People Out Of There Place....forced There Ways On Them And Corrupted Society....


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> Whether you believe in God or not the Bible is a very accurate history book, because it was the very first one to exist. Even skeptical historians concur that the Bible is correct in its following of different regions, kings at the time, and even, the existence of Moses and his exploits.


no they don't - that is laughable ZenMaster - no "skeptical" historian would say that. cite your sources or retract!


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## ZenMaster (May 25, 2008)

email468 said:


> no you don't. you think you do but you don't know.
> 
> Let's try this..
> 
> ...


Thats cute, I see what you did there.

Trust me, I know why the sky is blue, scientifically. I was using that analogy because its a definite. Would you like me to use a different one?

The reason I know God exists beyond a shadow of a doubt is from the response I got from my prayers. Its truly amazing, you should try it.

And believe me, I know that I know nothing. It is possible that everything mankind "knows" is completely wrong. I try not to put definites in anything, on people's personality, our laws of physics-however this is one of the very, very few things I am completely certain on.


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> Ii Never Made It A Fully Black White Issue Ii Used One Issue As A Example...that A Christain Which Could Be A Black,white,mexican...was Enslaving People That Held The Exact Image Of The God They Read Bout Every Day....what Im Saying...exodus Is Saying...is Everyone Has There Place....but Someone Or Two Didnt Listen And Forced People Out Of There Place....forced There Ways On Them And Corrupted Society....


It is easy to justify slavery and still be a christian - i mean doesn't jesus himself admonish slaves to be loyal and masters to be kind? He doesn't say don't own slaves!

I don't understand the part about someone or two that corrupted things. I'm not sure what you mean there.


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

Basically...ii Look Around While Some Look Up And Some Look Down....lord Lives In Ii...not In The Sky....nor Some Rubbish Book...everyone Has There Place....in Christianity They Look To The Devil As Much As Lord....if Youve Ever Been To Church Then You Know Its A Swine,vanity Filled Affair...ii Dont Need A Building To Worship...alll Ii Need Is Peice Of Mind..ii Dont Need Shiny Shoes And A Three Peice Suit To Worship All Ii Need Is A Stick Of Collie And A Meal To Thank For...ii Dont Need Some Big Science Fuckery To Give Ii Answers There All Around Ii....simplicity Is What Ii Need...


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## ZenMaster (May 25, 2008)

email468 said:


> no they don't - that is laughable ZenMaster - no "skeptical" historian would say that. cite your sources or retract!


For you-

Books of the Bible - History of the Bible - Who wrote the Bible

The Bible and history - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I watch the history channel, alot. They go into the Bible very often, often ruthlessly. However they all concur that it is historically accurate.


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

Its Simple Just Not The Big Science Mumbo Jumbo Ure Used To...some1 Or 2 Those Are Numbers Of People Kinda A Metaphor....you Should Get Ure Head Outta Those Books And Look Around....as Ii Would Say..lol


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

Love Thy Nieghbor As You Would Love Thy Savior...would You Inslave Your God?probably If Science Told You To Huh?


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> Thats cute, I see what you did there.
> 
> Trust me, I know why the sky is blue, scientifically. I was using that analogy because its a definite. Would you like me to use a different one?
> 
> ...


thanks - i just threw that in for a laugh. I have a hard time understanding why the sky is blue - it is very complicated but i'm glad you have a handle on it.

So you doubt everything that has some empirical evidence but firmly believe in something that has absolutely zero evidence - other than the response you got from your prayers. Let me ask you - was the response written or verbal? Was there a miracle involved? 

Or did you need something - anything so desperately that your mind answered your call for help and you credit God?


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

Its Easy To Justify Anything Doesnt Make It Right Makes It Just...


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> For you-
> 
> Books of the Bible - History of the Bible - Who wrote the Bible
> 
> ...


an online bible-study group and disputed wiki page?
and the history channel? is that the same channel who says aliens are real?

come on Zen -- you should know me better than that by now.


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## Seamaiden (May 25, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> For you-
> 
> Books of the Bible - History of the Bible - Who wrote the Bible
> 
> ...


I watch the History Channel as well, and I will tell you something that fucking CHAPS my hide. The "Naked Archaeologist" has been involved in some VERY shady dealings. He should not have a fucking show! Just read some archaeology magazines, you know, the ones the actual scientists are using, and you will find that among actual experts (people who have the education and field work to back up their words, not just the self-proclaimed) there is much agreement that those shows are absolutely NOT historically accurate. Much bible verse cannot be verified, although there has been much effort.

Try Archaeology magazine if you want to get a better idea of what I'm talking about.

What I am failing to understand, given the title of this thread, is that for some reason someone thinks it's possible to "debunk" faith. You can't. It's FAITH, that's the whole fucking idea. Did Christ exist? I don't know, there are absolutel no other contemporaneous writings, the kind of writings that actually verify the existence of the martyrs and saints. Does it _matter_? Ultimately, no, it doesn't. Because whoever was the mechanism for this religious shift brought about a fantastically huge change. Judaism sure didn't gain the popularity for monotheism that exists now.


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> Love Thy Nieghbor As You Would Love Thy Savior...would You Inslave Your God?probably If Science Told You To Huh?


Science reveals - it does not dictate. I will not get upset that you infer that I would own a human being but I would appreciate more courtesy than that.

I wonder which God gets more of - praise and worship (treated like a king) or requests to serve, give comfort, fulfill requests and help (treated like a slave)?


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> Its Easy To Justify Anything Doesnt Make It Right Makes It Just...


very true. I am not defending slavery - i am displaying how easy it is to interpret the bible however you like and twist it to serve nearly any agenda you choose.


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

Well Im Done Seems We All Know Whats "right"....seems We Look To Diff People Some People Are Just In False Realitys So They Have False Outlooks...


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

Thats What Im Saying We Could Sit In The Same Place Read The Same Thing...ii Would Come With A Very Simple Say Say,....while Someone Else Could Come With A Scientific Answer For Whats So Simple....never Said You Would Enslave Another Man Jus Saying Your Good At Twisting Simplicity In2 Some Scientific Jibberish....everything Doesnt Have A "scientific" Answer....ii Mean What Is Science Can You Answer That?without The Dictionary Or Google Inbetween Post,lol?dought It....its Just A Bunch Of Contridicting,donkeyjawbone Having People That Want To Have An Answer To Everything In Existance....


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## ZenMaster (May 25, 2008)

email468 said:


> an online bible-study group and disputed wiki page?
> and the history channel? is that the same channel who says aliens are real?
> 
> come on Zen -- you should know me better than that by now.


Well you put your faith behind professionals (which the history channel is compiled of) as long as you agree?

The response I got in my prayers was nothing short of a miracle. Coincidence factor is at a 00.00% chance. I have never spoken of that day, nor will I.

On a lighter note, little prayers can be answered as well. Years back I had an appendectomy performed however I didn't have health insurance earlier that month so the bill I was looking at was $21,000. I was looking at something that would hang over my head for years, to say the least I was pretty worried, and I prayed on it. Shortly following, out of the blue I got a letter in the mail saying charity picked up the bill. I've prayed for my friends when shit when bad for them, and it really helps.


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> Well Im Done Seems We All Know Whats "right"....seems We Look To Diff People Some People Are Just In False Realitys So They Have False Outlooks...


Don't go - i find your viewpoints refreshing and interesting. I agree that false realities equals false outlooks but the problem is knowing what is false and what isn't.

My opinion is the folks who are sure their reality and outlook is correct are the most likely to be looking at things through a false outlook. But if my outlook is false (and it very well may) then how would I know?


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> Thats What Im Saying We Could Sit In The Same Place Read The Same Thing...ii Would Come With A Very Simple Say Say,....while Someone Else Could Come With A Scientific Answer For Whats So Simple....never Said You Would Enslave Another Man Jus Saying Your Good At Twisting Simplicity In2 Some Scientific Jibberish....everything Doesnt Have A "scientific" Answer....ii Mean What Is Science Can You Answer That?without The Dictionary Or Google Inbetween Post,lol?dought It....its Just A Bunch Of Contridicting,donkeyjawbone Having People That Want To Have An Answer To Everything In Existance....


Science is a method or way of understanding the world around us. I am not twisting anything - i am trying to clarify. There is far more that science doesn't know that it knows - i don't think anyone is saying otherwise. And one of the great things about science is if the evidence changes then science changes so yeah - you're going to have some contradictions while evidence accumulates.

And I would add that i find it odd that someone would disparage science while using a computer over the internet which wouldn't even exist without science and applied technology.


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

To Me What Is False Is What Uve Been Told Since A Baby...we Were All Programmed And Ii Dont Like The Ways Ii Was Taught....you Need To Find Peice Of Mind....ii Have...the Voice In My Head Isnt Mine...so Ii Listen To It,it Doesnt Lie And Ii Listen To It....it Leads Ii And Ii Go There....who Feels It Knows It Is What Ii Live By Someone Couldve Told You Something Was Right Your Whole Life And Thats Because Thats What They Were Taught...and On And On...the Right Messeges Got Lost In Time Just Like In The Bible...so You Need To Find Your Road...


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> Well you put your faith behind professionals (which the history channel is compiled of) as long as you agree?
> 
> The response I got in my prayers was nothing short of a miracle. Coincidence factor is at a 00.00% chance. I have never spoken of that day, nor will I.
> 
> On a lighter note, little prayers can be answered as well. Years back I had an appendectomy performed however I didn't have health insurance earlier that month so the bill I was looking at was $21,000. I was looking at something that would hang over my head for years, to say the least I was pretty worried, and I prayed on it. Shortly following, out of the blue I got a letter in the mail saying charity picked up the bill. I've prayed for my friends when shit when bad for them, and it really helps.


History channel gives credence to bigfoot, UFOs, etc... - i think advertising dollars are more important than scientific accuracy. So I do not consider the history channel (or any other television) a legitimate source of info. They may be right - they may be wrong but I wouldn't call them skeptical historians.

I am glad you had your prayers answered. I would imagine that not everyone is so lucky. And besides, wouldn't it have been better for God to just go ahead and heal your appendix? And why is that organ there anyway?

And i'm going to go ahead and be a total dickhead - why not pray for world peace or something?


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> To Me What Is False Is What Uve Been Told Since A Baby...we Were All Programmed And Ii Dont Like The Ways Ii Was Taught....you Need To Find Peice Of Mind....ii Have...the Voice In My Head Isnt Mine...so Ii Listen To It,it Doesnt Lie And Ii Listen To It....it Leads Ii And Ii Go There....who Feels It Knows It Is What Ii Live By Someone Couldve Told You Something Was Right Your Whole Life And Thats Because Thats What They Were Taught...and On And On...the Right Messeges Got Lost In Time Just Like In The Bible...so You Need To Find Your Road...


Finding your own path and listening to your own inner voice sounds like a fine way to live to me and more power to you for leading that kind of life.


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

ITS FUNNY YOU SAY THAT II BARELY KNOW HOW TO USE THIS COMPUTER IM 19 YEARS OLD....if you knew me you would know im working to get out of the city away from power lines and television.and buildings...ii dont want this,screen...but ii make use of bad things parsay inna good way.....to me science is a way to tryntry to understand things around them....ii overstand....they say hello...ii say hi....its just not for me...ii guess...for example a scientist a pick up a bug and want to know how they can make there own bug...ii pick up a bug ii jus want to know "how its doing"..lol


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## ZenMaster (May 25, 2008)

email468 said:


> History channel gives credence to bigfoot, UFOs, etc... - i think advertising dollars are more important than scientific accuracy. So I do not consider the history channel (or any other television) a legitimate source of info. They may be right - they may be wrong but I wouldn't call them skeptical historians.
> 
> I am glad you had your prayers answered. I would imagine that not everyone is so lucky. And besides, wouldn't it have been better for God to just go ahead and heal your appendix? And why is that organ there anyway?
> 
> And i'm going to go ahead and be a total dickhead - why not pray for world peace or something?


I didn't ask for my appendix to be healed, just help on my financial stress, which I have had some help as well on different occasions. We really aren't sure why the appendix is there, doctors think they may have been required to help digest bone back when we had a harsher diet. Again, nobody knows.

Praying for world peace is too arrogant. That would affect a massive amount of people with their own lives and it could interfere with God's personal plan for each individual. Instead, I pray for the leaders of men, they the ones needing God the most. People blame God for man's problems, yet we have the audacity to continue to sin and continue _our_ evil ways and expect God to make it all better. If we followed what the Bible teaches, there wouldn't be war.


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## Brandon78125 (May 25, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> Thats What Im Saying We Could Sit In The Same Place Read The Same Thing...ii Would Come With A Very Simple Say Say,....while Someone Else Could Come With A Scientific Answer For Whats So Simple....never Said You Would Enslave Another Man Jus Saying Your Good At Twisting Simplicity In2 Some Scientific Jibberish....everything Doesnt Have A "scientific" Answer....ii Mean What Is Science Can You Answer That?without The Dictionary Or Google Inbetween Post,lol?dought It....its Just A Bunch Of Contridicting,donkeyjawbone Having People That Want To Have An Answer To Everything In Existance....


Babylonburn is right, pretty much everything you have been told through schooling and television has all been a lie. The government has brainwashed people into believing what they want us to believe. I know it seems crazy but its true.


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

live the life you love love the life you live.....


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## email468 (May 25, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> ITS FUNNY YOU SAY THAT II BARELY KNOW HOW TO USE THIS COMPUTER IM 19 YEARS OLD....if you knew me you would know im working to get out of the city away from power lines and television.and buildings...ii dont want this,screen...but ii make use of bad things parsay inna good way.....to me science is a way to tryntry to understand things around them....ii overstand....they say hello...ii say hi....its just not for me...ii guess...for example a scientist a pick up a bug and want to know how they can make there own bug...ii pick up a bug ii jus want to know "how its doing"..lol


LOL - that's awesome! i think one of my inner voices sings the same song as yours. The allure of the primitive is very strong in many of us - myself included.

And not to beat a dead and half-buried horse, i don't think the scientist picks up the bug to create one of their own - just to try to understand it better. Sure what it is made of is important since the same stuff that makes other animals makes us too - in different quantities and proportions. I think science can be a uniting force since it proves we are all made from the same stuff. To use Carl Sagan's turn of phrase... star stuff


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

ii couldve told you that lol...saying were not all made out of the same thing is like saying the lord loves one more than the other...one love,one feel,one life,one time....life is a moment...ii respect where your coming from email and easy skanking and good vibes to you as ii would say...ii love thy neghbor as ii love thy savior...


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

out of evil can only come good...out of good can come no evil


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## Seamaiden (May 25, 2008)

E.O. Williams. He's the shit.


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## royalewithcheese40 (May 25, 2008)

If only the writer had some litterary tallent. Remember dont trust any publication that consistanly uses absolutes like always, never, all, none, etc... but theyre right. christian, muslem, jew, its all the same shit. BULL SHIT! imho


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## nickfury510 (May 25, 2008)

H.I.M. emperor hailie selassie I said that" religion is division a true seperation of people and class"...religion was created to keep people enslaved and inline...everything that religions preach goes against the spirituality that faith was based on....i am in no way a religious person..however i am a very spiritual person with a strong belief in a god of *my *understanding....whom i chose to worship in *my *own way....


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

seen....rastafarini as ii would say


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

ii over me and mine


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## nickfury510 (May 25, 2008)

this is my favorits sellasieI saying

"That until the philosophy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned: That until there are no longer first-class and second class citizens of any nation; That until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes; That until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race; That until that day, the dream of lasting peace and world citizenship and the rule of international morality will remain but a fleeting illusion, to be pursued but never attained and until the ignoble but unhappy regimes that hold our brothers in Angola, in Mozambique, and in South Africa in subhuman bondage have been toppled and destroyed; until bigotry and prejudice and malicious and inhuman self-interest have been replaced by understanding and tolerance and goodwill; until all Africans stand and speak as free human beings, equal in the eyes of the Almighty; until that day, the African continent shall not know peace. We Africans will fight if necessary and we know that we shall win as we are confident in the victory of good over evil" &#8211; English translation of 1968 Speech delivered to the United Nations and popularized in a song called _OpenDNS_ by Bob Marley.


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## babylonburn (May 25, 2008)

if that say say was put to reality then it would be ONE love,light,law....ONE


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## nickfury510 (May 25, 2008)

*The progress of science can be said to be harmful to religion only in so far as it is used for evil aims and not because it claims a priority over religion in its revelation to man. It is important that spiritual advancement must keep pace with material advancement. When this comes to be realized man's journey toward higher and more lasting values will show more marked progress while the evil in him recedes into the background. Knowing that material and spiritual progress are essential to man, we must ceaselessly work for the equal attainment of both.* Only then shall we be able to acquire that absolute inner calm so necessary to our well-being.
It is only when a people strike an even balance between scientific progress and spiritual and moral advancement that it can be said to possess a wholly perfect and complete personality and not a lopsided one ......H.I.M. Halie Selassie InI


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## nickfury510 (May 25, 2008)

*Since nobody can interfere in the realm of God we should tolerate and live side by side with those of other faiths. In the mystic traditions of the different religions we have a remarkable unity of spirit. Whatever religion they may profess, they are spiritual kinsmen.* While the different religions in their historic forms bind us to limited groups and militate against the development of loyalty to the world community, the mystics have already stood for the fellowship of humanity in harmony with the spirit of the mystics of ages gone by....... Selassie I


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## royalewithcheese40 (May 25, 2008)

very well put Nick.


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## Seamaiden (May 25, 2008)

nickfury510 said:


> *Since nobody can interfere in the realm of God we should tolerate and live side by side with those of other faiths. In the mystic traditions of the different religions we have a remarkable unity of spirit. Whatever religion they may profess, they are spiritual kinsmen.* While the different religions in their historic forms bind us to limited groups and militate against the development of loyalty to the world community, the mystics have already stood for the fellowship of humanity in harmony with the spirit of the mystics of ages gone by....... Selassie I


I'd call this 'truth'. As Ghandi said, yeah?


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## royalewithcheese40 (May 26, 2008)

scientific progress is almost irrelevent if society is too ignorant or blind to except it. most people wont even hear it. god is the answer and thats it. just like Niche said, religion holds society down. 

we are all too caught up in american idol, the kardashian whores, and deal or no deal to give a shit about progress, thought, discovery, or anything else we humans used to be so good at. we spend trillions of dollars a year on distractions like war, politics and intertainment but if you ask most people to aprove a few million bucks to explore the unexplored they ask why its necessary!

there are more galaxies in space than sand on all the beaches.... and we still beleave in jesus?? a guy who walked the earth less than 3000 years ago! is it just me or is this crazy?


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## nitrobud (May 26, 2008)

Either God is a giant asshole who likes to enjoy people suffering, 
or he isn't all powerful,
or he doesn't exist. 

I'll use Occam's razor and go with the last option. 

*QUOTE* (Epicurius @ the problem of evil)
&#8220;Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
*Then he is not omnipotent.*
Is he able, but not willing?
*Then he is malevolent.*
Is he both able and willing?
*Then whence cometh evil?*
Is he neither able nor willing?
*Then why call him God?&#8221;*


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## royalewithcheese40 (May 26, 2008)

i think i heard some heads explode...


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## trishmybiscuits (May 27, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> And believe me, I know that I know nothing. It is possible that everything mankind "knows" is completely wrong. I try not to put definites in anything, on people's personality, our laws of physics-however this is one of the very, very few things I am completely certain on.


If what the Christians believe is true, at the current death rate around the world God would have only .57 seconds to judge a person at the time of their death before moving on to the next. Do you believe your god can actually do that? And even if he could, would he?


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## ZenMaster (May 27, 2008)

nitrobud said:


> Either God is a giant asshole who likes to enjoy people suffering,
> or he isn't all powerful,
> or he doesn't exist.
> 
> ...


I think i'll help you out with your conundrum with a story I read awhile back-

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]*"Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ." The
atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of
his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a
moment.

"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you
can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you
could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't,
does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he
prayed to Jesus to heal him How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you
answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water
from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student : "From...God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil
in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created
everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the
principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Without allowing the student to answer, the professor continues: "Is
there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things,
do they exist in this world?"

The student: "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his
question. "Who created them? There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer
breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized.

"Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus
Christ, son?"

The student's voice is confident: "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use
to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him"

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever actually felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt
your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or
God for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol,
science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes , faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science
has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of
his own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The
room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You can
have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited
heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything
called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat,
but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as
cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.
Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits
energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit
energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir,
cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot
measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy.
Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,
sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it
isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence
of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light,
flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and
it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the
word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make
darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This
will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to
start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can
you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains.
"You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad
God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something
we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses
electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood
either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of
the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not
the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved
from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man,
yes, of course I do"

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes
where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not
teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a
preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion
has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student,
let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there any one in the class who
has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into
laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt
the professor's brain, touched or smelled the professor's brain? No one
appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of
empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no
brain, with all due respect, sir. So if science says you have no brain,
how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his
face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess
you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with
life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as
evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it
everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is
in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These
manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it
does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is
just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the
absence of God.

God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man
does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that
comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no
light."

The professor sat down.*[/FONT]


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## email468 (May 27, 2008)

That must have been a theology professor since a prof with any kind of science background (hell even a decent logic background) would blow the student's moronic comparisons out of the water. This must have been a bible college.

And besides the whole argument is stupid -- science doesn't "prove" negatives (you can't). You know this Zen - yet you persist in making this assumption. Science does not prove god one way or the other. The only thing I, and other science-minded folks say, is there is no scientific evidence for god. There are certainly rhetorical arguments and circumstantial evidence - just no scientific evidence.

Besides - faith is supposed to trump all - why do you care if there is evidence of not?


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## ZenMaster (May 27, 2008)

email468 said:


> That must have been a theology professor since a prof with any kind of science background (hell even a decent logic background) would blow the student's moronic comparisons out of the water. This must have been a bible college.
> 
> And besides the whole argument is stupid -- science doesn't "prove" negatives (you can't). You know this Zen - yet you persist in making this assumption. Science does not prove god one way or the other. The only thing I, and other science-minded folks say, is there is no scientific evidence for god. There are certainly rhetorical arguments and circumstantial evidence - just no scientific evidence.
> 
> Besides - faith is supposed to trump all - why do you care if there is evidence of not?


I wasn't after "proving" God to you. I was trying to shed light on the question "why God lets evil happen". The fact is, that we are the ones screwin up but we blame God. If more people took responsibility for their actions this world would be a lot better.

And how would a true, Email468 Approved, scientist "blow" the student's comparison out of the water? He just argued that evil wasn't a product of God's, it is an absence of God.


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## email468 (May 27, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> I wasn't after "proving" God to you. I was trying to shed light on the question "why God lets evil happen". The fact is, that we are the ones screwin up but we blame God. If more people took responsibility for their actions this world would be a lot better.
> 
> And how would a true, Email468 Approved, scientist "blow" the student's comparison out of the water? He just argued that evil wasn't a product of God's, it is an absence of God.


I was talking about his rhetorical style. The whole hot and cold argument is moot when comparing to good and evil. Something measurable and objective (temperature) vs. something intangible and subjective (good and evil).

God is the boss - God runs the show - the buck stops with God. He chooses not to stop evil and by doing so at least tolerates - if not condones it. So I am evil cause i don't believe in god? fuck that noise.


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## ZenMaster (May 27, 2008)

email468 said:


> I was talking about his rhetorical style. The whole hot and cold argument is moot when comparing to good and evil. Something measurable and objective (temperature) vs. something intangible and subjective (good and evil).
> 
> God is the boss - God runs the show - the buck stops with God. He chooses not to stop evil and by doing so at least tolerates - if not condones it. So I am evil cause i don't believe in god? fuck that noise.


Hmm, are you sure you read the story throughly? I am having the assumption that you skimmed threw it at a barely tolerable level because you have a conflicting ideology.

Reason why I assume this is because his reference to Hot - Cold was merely scientific. We cannot measure cold, just heat. So cold is the absence of heat, as well is darkness to light. He had to put it in a way so the scientist could understand 

You are not evil, just maybe proud. God doesn't hate you, he never will. There will be a day when you will need God, and he will be there.


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## email468 (May 27, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> Hmm, are you sure you read the story throughly? I am having the assumption that you skimmed threw it at a barely tolerable level because you have a conflicting ideology.
> 
> Reason why I assume this is because his reference to Hot - Cold was merely scientific. We cannot measure cold, just heat. So cold is the absence of heat, as well is darkness to light. He had to put it in a way so the scientist could understand
> 
> You are not evil, just maybe proud. God doesn't hate you, he never will. There will be a day when you will need God, and he will be there.


thanks zen -- i don't think i'm evil either. I did read it (i even read it several times as this is not the first time you've posted it). It is an interesting argument no doubt. It is just comparing apples and oranges.

The scientist understands that you can't measure or observe good and evil other than subjectively. that is where the argument breaks down.

You act as though I've never needed divine intervention yet in my life. I am not a young man and have had my share of ups and downs. There were plenty of opportunities for a miracle. Oddly, i've always had to make my own miracles happen - maybe that is what makes me proud. I do have pride - nothing feels quite as good as achieving a difficult goal - i swell with pride doing that! but i can be humble and thankful and needy too. i'm a human just like you - same problems, feelings, emotions, needs, etc...


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## We TaRdED (May 27, 2008)

For the record email, I think your a great guy. I always love reading your posts. You are one of the most.......errrr......*thinking of a good word*.... logical and scientific "posters" on RIU. 

I personally don't think someone is "evil" because they don't believe in God. As you have proven, there is no scientific facts about God besides the Bible. You are utterly scientific(smart) and need evidence before you poise your position, you are at the same time open minded about God and would love to believe in Him if you had tangible evidence. 

I respect your views and I know a lot of other people do too. If there is a heaven, I believe the key to getting into it is being a kind and genuine person. 

How can so many religions be the only "right" religion and all others will not permit you into heaven? Keep giving money to our church and they will permit you into heaven for all eternity. Is that so far off from the way the middle easterners think about getting 30 virgins in heaven for doing "good" deeds? *It is a promise from the church to you that you have no way of telling if its right or wrong unless you are dead.* REREAD MY LAST SENTANCE! You must have blind faith in order to get into through the gates of heaven... What bull if you ask me, why not every person that has good intentions and tries to make the world better be able to go to heaven.. Ohh yeah,..... the church would not be able to collect as much funds that way... Shoot... (Sorry to all the believers, I was a Christian less than 6 months ago. I have been opening my eyes though and can't deny facts because I am like email in regards to needing evidence. Watch this movie, the first 10 mins or so are gay though.Zeitgeist - The Movie)

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## email468 (May 27, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> For the record email, I think your a great guy. I always love reading your posts. You are one of the most.......errrr......*thinking of a good word*.... logical and scientific "posters" on RIU.
> 
> I personally don't think someone is "evil" because they don't believe in God. As you have proven, there is no scientific facts about God besides the Bible. You are utterly scientific(smart) and need evidence before you poise your position, you are at the same time open minded about God and would love to believe in Him if you had tangible evidence.
> 
> ...



Thanks WE. I would like to take the opportunity to add there are plenty of scientists that believe in God and other higher power belief systems. Just because there is no evidence does not mean no one should believe and it sure as hell isn't my decision to make! I realize you probably understand this already - just wanted to take the time to make my position clear.

I just get riled when I see folks claiming scientific evidence exists for their faith-based beliefs.


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## We TaRdED (May 27, 2008)

For the record, I'm not a disbeliever. I am just a little lost right now. I believe in a higher power that put the universe together, but, just not the way its depicted in the Bible, Koran, Torah, etc etc.

Anyways g2g, talk to you all later..


RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## nitrobud (May 27, 2008)

*"Evil is the result of what happens when man
does not have God's love present in his heart."*

What? This is obviously wrong due to the massive amount of evidence history has shown. And the things stated in the bible. It is indisputable that the Old Testament says that God (going by the name Yahweh) ordered the Israelites to commit genocide against entire groups of peoples, i.e, the city of Jericho, the Amalekites and others.

*"I wasn't after "proving" God to you. I was trying to shed light on the question "why God lets evil happen". The fact is, that we are the ones screwin up but we blame God. If more people took responsibility for their actions this world would be a lot better."*

It didn't shed any light. I disagree with its conclusion. The fact of the matter is, if god created us, then he created our ability for evil. If we screw up, it is only because god gave us that ability. Totally different then a Light vs Dark situation. Yes, Darkness is nothing, but evil is something god has to of created like he created everything else.

Why would a all knowing, all powerful, Perfect being, create imperfection? Is he not all powerful? Not all knowing? As said before, then why call him god?

Did he do it just to toy with us? Are we some sort of lab experiment? Gods willingness to sit by while all sorts of horrid things happen, is evidence to his non-existence.

If you were a perfect being who created a perfect world, would you trash it all because some douchebag ate an apple from a tree? Please.... Have to be a big asshole to do something like that. Especially seeing as you also created the freaking tree.

Evil is not just the absence of good as the story seems to imply.


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## royalewithcheese40 (May 27, 2008)

evil is the absence of god? what? if comparing to the hot/cold argument wouldnt evil be the absence of good? ohhh, you just put an extra O you meant to say good right?? hahah lol christians make me laugh. 
yes believing in god is ok. its actually logical because there are so many unknowns like dark matter, paralells and what not. but you'd have to be a stupid mother f-er to live your life according to what a historically ambiguous and logically void book tells you. and yes you can measure evolution. oh wait, fossils are fake right? 
finally, I think when it comes to evil, we all have to remember one thing. WE ARE ANIMALS!! we are only held back by the mores of our current society.


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## We TaRdED (May 27, 2008)

royalewithcheese40 said:


> . WE ARE ANIMALS!! *we are only held back by the mores of our current society.*


You forgot to say that we are intelligent animals. 

What did you mean by the bold part? "Mores of our current society"? hmm 

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## nitrobud (May 27, 2008)

To clarify mores
from Wikipedia:
"*Mores* (pronounced /&#712;m&#596;&#720;re&#618;z/) are norms or customs. Mores derive from the established practices of a society rather than its written laws. They consist of shared understandings about the kinds of behaviour likely to evoke approval, disapproval, toleration or sanction, within particular contexts."


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## 40acres (May 27, 2008)

Now that you guys have debunked christianity, maybe you should move on to hindi, or possibly maybe buddhists? thos tibetans really piss me off for believing in enlightment. or possibly, the secret of the old clock...?







But no really, I am going to show this whole thread to my religous studies class and show them that you guys have the mystery solved.


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## Seamaiden (May 27, 2008)

Oh my God! I used to have that book! 

I still want someone to explain to me how a faith can be "debunked".


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## nickfury510 (May 27, 2008)

40acres said:


> Now that you guys have debunked christianity, maybe you should move on to hindi, or possibly maybe buddhists? thos tibetans really piss me off for believing in enlightment. or possibly, the secret of the old clock...?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


...thats funny


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## SouthernOregonOrganic (May 28, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> I read the piece and felt that it more than lives up to its title. Obviously Christians won't like it, but it clearly raises valid issues, makes very valid points.


IM not a Christan, Nor do i claim any religion. But, this piece was obviously written by some one who has a biased view of Christianity. And they sound as if there still in college. IM not defending Christianity by any means, but this is one of the WORST arguments against Christianity/religion as a whole iv ever heard. Ok he said if Jesus were really god, he would have told people the earth is round.. That is COMPLETELY irrelevant to the fact that Jesus was the messiah. That he did not mention bacteria and germs is also just as irrelevant to the fact. Why would that matter if he were the Messiah? It wouldnt, at all.Thats such a small detail, if he did exist he wouldnt even think of it. If he were put on earth as a human, why do u think he would have superlative knowledge of the earth?He was flesh and blood, but apparently the blood of a GOD. He would have lived life as any other,IE same basic education as others, same every thing. Yes there is a buck to make off of peoples fears of the uncertainty of death and an afterlife; but who isn't scared out their skin about death??
This author try's to befoul the adoration of Christ, but fails. He fails because he's making arguments that are as old as Christianity its self. Iv heard nothing new from this Scrub of an author. It honestly reads like a Writing 101 Final. Is this kid going to try to debunk Islam next? 
BTW if i were to claim a religion, it would b Islam. I honestly c Islam as the one true religion after doing research. It predates Christianity by Hundreds of years! The Christian Bible makes numerous references to passages and characters from the religion of Islam. Like i said, im not religious by any means, for FUCKS SAKES my favorite music would DAMN me to the bowels of hell. I love Brutal Death metal and TRUE fucking BLACK MetaL.Thats right, a BLACK METAL fan is some what defending Christianity!!! But only because if people were going to not believe because of literature like this; i think its bullshit that some one with such a naive view of Christianity could influence people. Thats why i have the stance i do on this subject. Because if your going to Bash a religion, especially one such as Christianity you better have a DAMN GOOD and ORIGINAL argument as to why people should throw out their bibles and break their crucifixes. Catholicism not so much,Judaism, i could sorta careless. But if your going to challenge the most widely believed religion second only to Islamic practice, you better come out swinging buddy!! Dont come to me with this over used BS every one has already heard. Lets hear something new and fresh.


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## royalewithcheese40 (May 28, 2008)

this is true. after all, no matter how much knowledge, logic, science, and pure facts you throw at someone, "faith" will ultimately be their cop out. you cant argue with faith. because it is based on nothing but pure fealings.


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## email468 (May 28, 2008)

SouthernOregonOrganic said:


> IM not a Christan, Nor do i claim any religion. But, this piece was obviously written by some one who has a biased view of Christianity. And they sound as if there still in college. IM not defending Christianity by any means, but this is one of the WORST arguments against Christianity/religion as a whole iv ever heard. Ok he said if Jesus were really god, he would have told people the earth is round.. That is COMPLETELY irrelevant to the fact that Jesus was the messiah. That he did not mention bacteria and germs is also just as irrelevant to the fact. Why would that matter if he were the Messiah? It wouldnt, at all.Thats such a small detail, if he did exist he wouldnt even think of it. If he were put on earth as a human, why do u think he would have superlative knowledge of the earth?He was flesh and blood, but apparently the blood of a GOD. He would have lived life as any other,IE same basic education as others, same every thing. Yes there is a buck to make off of peoples fears of the uncertainty of death and an afterlife; but who isn't scared out their skin about death??
> This author try's to befoul the adoration of Christ, but fails. He fails because he's making arguments that are as old as Christianity its self. Iv heard nothing new from this Scrub of an author. It honestly reads like a Writing 101 Final. Is this kid going to try to debunk Islam next?
> BTW if i were to claim a religion, it would b Islam. I honestly c Islam as the one true religion after doing research. It predates Christianity by Hundreds of years! The Christian Bible makes numerous references to passages and characters from the religion of Islam. Like i said, im not religious by any means, for FUCKS SAKES my favorite music would DAMN me to the bowels of hell. I love Brutal Death metal and TRUE fucking BLACK MetaL.Thats right, a BLACK METAL fan is some what defending Christianity!!! But only because if people were going to not believe because of literature like this; i think its bullshit that some one with such a naive view of Christianity could influence people. Thats why i have the stance i do on this subject. Because if your going to Bash a religion, especially one such as Christianity you better have a DAMN GOOD and ORIGINAL argument as to why people should throw out their bibles and break their crucifixes. Catholicism not so much,Judaism, i could sorta careless. But if your going to challenge the most widely believed religion second only to Islamic practice, you better come out swinging buddy!! Dont come to me with this over used BS every one has already heard. Lets hear something new and fresh.


What you are asking is not possible scientifically. I think anyone who understands science agrees that you can not prove a negative. You can't prove Christianity is false or that god doesn't exist. So debunking Christianity, UFOs or Bigfoot all have the same problem - you can't prove a negative - scientists can't prove bigfoot doesn't exist. But what science can say is - show me your physical evidence - a body, some blood, stool, bones, anything besides something that could be falsifiable (like an eyewitness story aka anecdote, hearsay, or video of a guy in a bear suit for example).

What people are saying is there is no scientifically acceptable evidence for a god. And others, myself included, have also used rhetorical logic to show the contradictory values the god in the bible would have to have in order for the world to exist as it does today.

I don't think Islam predates Christianity. There may be imans who twist some verses around to make it appear so but this would not be historically accurate. How could it be? Muhammad wasn't born until five centuries after Jesus supposedly lived and died (i say supposedly because outside the bible, there is no evidence jesus ever existed). Islam is based on Judaism (just like Christianity). All of the big-three monotheistic paternal religions all worship the God of Abraham - it is the whole messiah thing that causes problems.

And ultimately it is up to you to find what belief system (or lack thereof) works for you. If you think faith is a virtue and believing is something that is important in your life, no one has the right to stop you. But at the same time, if you attempt to push your faith-based beliefs into the natural world of science - you must expect some friction and demands for scientifically acceptable evidence.


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## 40acres (May 28, 2008)

royalewithcheese40 said:


> this is true. after all, no matter how much knowledge, logic, science, and pure facts you throw at someone, "faith" will ultimately be their cop out. you cant argue with faith. because it is based on nothing but pure fealings.


how is "faith" a cop out? I think i said once to someone on Riu already, "just because i dont believe in you, doesnt make you not real." I think emotions are weak, but i dont tell you you are weaker for it, and I dont think you arecopping out because you need or want them. Well, i kinda do, but nevermind.
That being said, some mormons tried to landshark me yesterday.Bastards. They are really nice though, but i dont like people trying to squeeze into my personal space.


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## nickfury510 (May 28, 2008)

i dont know who said this..but it is one of my favorite quotes....it was a speach on how religion is evil and corrupt and was put in place by the same people that control governments blah blah blah, but he sums up the speach with..."i dont know what god is..But i do know what he is not"......


just thought id share that


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## Seamaiden (May 28, 2008)

email468 said:


> I don't think Islam predates Christianity. There may be imans who twist some verses around to make it appear so but this would not be historically accurate. How could it be? Muhammad wasn't born until five centuries after Jesus supposedly lived and died (i say supposedly because outside the bible, there is no evidence jesus ever existed). Islam is based on Judaism (just like Christianity). All of the big-three monotheistic paternal religions all worship the God of Abraham - it is the whole messiah thing that causes problems.


Not even Islam claims to predate Christianity. Otherwise, how could it acknowledge Christ as one of Allah's messiahs/messengers?

Still, no one has explained to me how one debunks faith. It's FAITH! For Christ's sake, let them have it.


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## nitrobud (May 28, 2008)

40acres said:


> how is "faith" a cop out?




Faith is a cop-out. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can&#8217;t be taken on its own merits.*Dan Barker*, _"Losing Faith in Faith", 1992

_*&#8220;Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.&#8221;*

Richard Dawkins


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## nitrobud (May 28, 2008)

SouthernOregonOrganic said:


> I honestly c Islam as the one true religion after doing research. It predates Christianity by Hundreds of years! The Christian Bible makes numerous references to passages and characters from the religion of Islam.



If that is your reasoning, they why aren't you a pagan? Like with Christianity, even parts of Islam have connections to the previous pagan religions.

Just because something came first, doesn't make it more correct, or less wrong.

We were told the earth was flat, before we learned it was round. Should we go back to thinking the earth was flat because that idea came first? 


Plus, the Bible was written hundreds of years after Christ even supposedly lived.


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## babylonburn (May 28, 2008)

christ just lived his life a rightful man...he said nothing of religion just of light and dark,as ii would say,live......the devils dead,and to all thse that worship a dead god....you cant take life from the life giver.....


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## nitrobud (May 28, 2008)

babylonburn said:


> christ just lived his life a rightful man...he said nothing of religion just of light and dark,as ii would say,live......the devils dead,and to all thse that worship a dead god....you cant take life from the life giver.....



That is, assuming he lived at all.


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## royalewithcheese40 (May 28, 2008)

i see faith as crossing the street with your eyes closed. and when people are like dude! that doesnt make any sense! you just say oh i have faith. As far as the judaeo based religions go, none of them are original. the dead sea scrolls pretty much proved that i think. even though the catholic suppression machine, who by the way was lead by the current pope, tried and mostly succeeded at filtering out the material that could possibly contradict christ.


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## nickfury510 (May 28, 2008)

SouthernOregonOrganic said:


> IM not a Christan, Nor do i claim any religion. But, this piece was obviously written by some one who has a biased view of Christianity. And they sound as if there still in college. IM not defending Christianity by any means, but this is one of the WORST arguments against Christianity/religion as a whole iv ever heard. Ok he said if Jesus were really god, he would have told people the earth is round.. That is COMPLETELY irrelevant to the fact that Jesus was the messiah. That he did not mention bacteria and germs is also just as irrelevant to the fact. Why would that matter if he were the Messiah? It wouldnt, at all.Thats such a small detail, if he did exist he wouldnt even think of it. If he were put on earth as a human, why do u think he would have superlative knowledge of the earth?He was flesh and blood, but apparently the blood of a GOD. He would have lived life as any other,IE same basic education as others, same every thing. Yes there is a buck to make off of peoples fears of the uncertainty of death and an afterlife; but who isn't scared out their skin about death??
> This author try's to befoul the adoration of Christ, but fails. He fails because he's making arguments that are as old as Christianity its self. Iv heard nothing new from this Scrub of an author. It honestly reads like a Writing 101 Final. Is this kid going to try to debunk Islam next?
> BTW if i were to claim a religion, *it would b Islam. I honestly c Islam as the one true religion after doing research. It predates Christianity by Hundreds of years! The Christian Bible *makes numerous references to passages and characters from the religion of Islam. Like i said, im not religious by any means, for FUCKS SAKES my favorite music would DAMN me to the bowels of hell. I love Brutal Death metal and TRUE fucking BLACK MetaL.Thats right, a BLACK METAL fan is some what defending Christianity!!! But only because if people were going to not believe because of literature like this; i think its bullshit that some one with such a naive view of Christianity could influence people. Thats why i have the stance i do on this subject. Because if your going to Bash a religion, especially one such as Christianity you better have a DAMN GOOD and ORIGINAL argument as to why people should throw out their bibles and break their crucifixes. Catholicism not so much,Judaism, i could sorta careless. But if your going to challenge the most widely believed religion second only to Islamic practice, you better come out swinging buddy!! Dont come to me with this over used BS every one has already heard. Lets hear something new and fresh.


you need to go back and do some more reasearch....islam is the youngest of the main 3 monotheist religions....if you read your bible,quran or the torah you would know that monotheist religion started with the isrealites were were led from pharohs kingdom to freedom by moses..thus the begining of judaism...then came jesus to start cristianity followed lastly by the prophet mohammed to introduce islam..... and i stated all three holy books because each one makes reference to the belief system of the faith before it...and in most cases..except when it comes to jesus....borrows and makes reference to the faith before it...


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## nickfury510 (May 28, 2008)

royalewithcheese40 said:


> i see faith as crossing the street with your eyes closed. and when people are like dude! that doesnt make any sense! you just say oh i have faith. As far as the judaeo based religions go, none of them are original. the dead sea scrolls pretty much proved that i think. even though the catholic suppression machine, who by the way was lead by the current pope, tried and mostly succeeded at filtering out the material that could possibly contradict christ.


did you know pope john paul II was a cyanide salesmen for a chemical company in poland and his biggest customer was the nazis...after the war was over he joined the catholic church to get amnisty for his war crimes....true story...


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## royalewithcheese40 (May 28, 2008)

thats pretty f-ed up about john paul but not suprising. regarding the originality issue what i was saying is that none of them are original if you "believe" in carbon dating which is supposed to be extremely accurate these days the dead sea scrolls which contain many aspects of the religions in question predated all of them.


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## royalewithcheese40 (May 28, 2008)

and you really cant use those books of questionable historical accuracy to prove anything since they are all natually self promoting.


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## 40acres (May 28, 2008)

nickfury510 said:


> did you know pope john paul II was a cyanide salesmen for a chemical company in poland and his biggest customer was the nazis...after the war was over he joined the catholic church to get amnisty for his war crimes....true story...


Not true bro. He was a chemaical salesman. He did not have war crimes. The b'nai b'rith declared he helped jews escape. He was polish, and the were among the worst to suffer.The nazis did hit him with a truck once though. Heres the wiki article on him.
Pope John Paul II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## nickfury510 (May 28, 2008)

heres the company he worked for...

IG Farben Trial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and
http://www.remnantofgod.org/JohnPaul2cyn.htm
heres this
http://alamoministries.com/content/english/Antichrist/Fugitive_Pope.html
this one also.
http://endrtimes.blogspot.com/2007/08/john-paul-ii-ig-farben.html

and joseph stalin gets the credit for the polish..seeing as he killed 20,000,000 of them...


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## 40acres (May 28, 2008)

nickfury510 said:


> heres the company he worked for...
> 
> IG Farben Trial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> ...


Did you see who that info is from. 

[FONT=Times New Roman,Georgia,Times]Tony Alamo Christian Ministries home page[/FONT]
*EndrTimes *

does that really sound plausible coming form people with an apocryphal message at the top of the page?
here is one from encyclopedia brittanica
John Paul II -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia


You can choose whichever one you want, but encyclopedia brittanica seems more researched to me than what "tony alamos christian ministries" web page has on it.


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## babylonburn (May 28, 2008)

there is ONE god ii will sum iit up with this....the same way there are diffrent languages....diffrent people...diffrent places...all our tongue translate to the same word,because one god works through all of us...you dont have to agree with god,beleive in god,thank,praise,but he will still give life and love.....


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## dirtyshawa (May 29, 2008)

damnit dread, u are the realist. every time i see u post some shit, it be the realist shit i ever heard!!! if i knew how to give you that rep shit i would. can somebody give me a hand with that?


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## babylonburn (May 29, 2008)

you gotta live the life you love and love the life you live....
BIG YOUTH


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## dirtyshawa (May 29, 2008)

every time every time. i really feel you bra. my first connect was Jamaican the best connect i ever had. he put me on to "equality" and ever since i've been a Christian-Rasta. and then i get locked and by the grace of God my celly is a Rasta from St. Croix. God bless you breadren!!!


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## babylonburn (May 29, 2008)

jah bless...iman am not jamaican...ii a rasta...but its ii over "me",and "mine"....ii tryn overstand not understand...kinda hard to explain typing but iim sure you catch mi drift...


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## email468 (May 29, 2008)

dirtyshawa said:


> damnit dread, u are the realist. every time i see u post some shit, it be the realist shit i ever heard!!! if i knew how to give you that rep shit i would. can somebody give me a hand with that?


It is the little scales icon in the right hand corner of every post. you have to click it on the post you want to rep (it is in between the post number and the double exclamation points (!!).


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## dirtyshawa (May 29, 2008)

okay okay, good looking email468. you get some rep to.


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## email468 (May 29, 2008)

dirtyshawa said:


> okay okay, good looking email468. you get some rep to.


thanks - just wanted to make sure babylonburn got his!


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## babylonburn (May 29, 2008)

thanks with the info on ranking,there is alot of people ii need to rep...lol


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## trishmybiscuits (May 30, 2008)

SouthernOregonOrganic said:


> IM not a Christan, Nor do i claim any religion. But, this piece was obviously written by some one who has a biased view of Christianity. And they sound as if there still in college. IM not defending Christianity by any means, but this is one of the WORST arguments against Christianity/religion as a whole iv ever heard. Ok he said if Jesus were really god, he would have told people the earth is round.. That is COMPLETELY irrelevant to the fact that Jesus was the messiah. That he did not mention bacteria and germs is also just as irrelevant to the fact. Why would that matter if he were the Messiah? It wouldnt, at all.Thats such a small detail, if he did exist he wouldnt even think of it. If he were put on earth as a human, why do u think he would have superlative knowledge of the earth?He was flesh and blood, but apparently the blood of a GOD. He would have lived life as any other,IE same basic education as others, same every thing. Yes there is a buck to make off of peoples fears of the uncertainty of death and an afterlife; but who isn't scared out their skin about death??
> This author try's to befoul the adoration of Christ, but fails. He fails because he's making arguments that are as old as Christianity its self. Iv heard nothing new from this Scrub of an author. It honestly reads like a Writing 101 Final. Is this kid going to try to debunk Islam next?
> BTW if i were to claim a religion, it would b Islam. I honestly c Islam as the one true religion after doing research. It predates Christianity by Hundreds of years! The Christian Bible makes numerous references to passages and characters from the religion of Islam. Like i said, im not religious by any means, for FUCKS SAKES my favorite music would DAMN me to the bowels of hell. I love Brutal Death metal and TRUE fucking BLACK MetaL.Thats right, a BLACK METAL fan is some what defending Christianity!!! But only because if people were going to not believe because of literature like this; i think its bullshit that some one with such a naive view of Christianity could influence people. Thats why i have the stance i do on this subject. Because if your going to Bash a religion, especially one such as Christianity you better have a DAMN GOOD and ORIGINAL argument as to why people should throw out their bibles and break their crucifixes. Catholicism not so much,Judaism, i could sorta careless. But if your going to challenge the most widely believed religion second only to Islamic practice, you better come out swinging buddy!! Dont come to me with this over used BS every one has already heard. Lets hear something new and fresh.


Boy, talk about an easy response to debunk. But before I do I want to say that I think you're really a Christian who's masquerading as a non-believer in order to give the appearance of impartiality. I mean, that's what it looks like to me. You defend Christianity as fervently as any Jesus freak I've ever known. Now to the rubbish. 

"Ok he said if Jesus were really god, he would have told people the earth is round.. That is COMPLETELY irrelevant to the fact that Jesus was the messiah. That he did not mention bacteria and germs is also just as irrelevant to the fact. Why would that matter if he were the Messiah? It wouldnt, at all.Thats such a small detail, if he did exist he wouldnt even think of it. If he were put on earth as a human, why do u think he would have superlative knowledge of the earth?He was flesh and blood, but apparently the blood of a GOD. He would have lived life as any other,IE same basic education as others, same every thing."

Oh? Then why did people believe that Jesus was the son of God? If he was so ordinary like you say, why did people believe he was the son of God? There must've been some reason. You're argument here doesn't make any sense.

Secondly, according to the Christians, Jesus was not only the son of God he was one in the same with God. As such he would've had knowledge of the natural world that went way beyond that of the average person. Jesus exhibited none of that knowledge.

"This author try's to befoul the adoration of Christ, but fails. He fails because he's making arguments that are as old as Christianity its self. Iv heard nothing new from this Scrub of an author."

The author doesn't try to befoul the adoration of Christ. He just points out that people who had contact with him weren't overwhelmed with awe. He also points out that not everyone who came in contact with Jesus didn't believe he was the son of God. Both of those points are nothing more than simple indisputable facts.

And as far as the arguments being old, be specific. Point to something specifically that you've seen in print before. Be specific.

Why don't you just fess up and admit you're a Christian. You're not fooling anyone.


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## PoseidonsNet (May 31, 2008)

333 posts -
and the claim 'for once and for all' is looking a tad like hyperbole, if not downright superciliousness...


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## email468 (Jun 1, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> 333 posts -
> and the claim 'for once and for all' is looking a tad like hyperbole, if not downright superciliousness...



yep - not possible to debunk - let alone "once and for all".


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## nickfury510 (Jun 1, 2008)

people of science just cant formulate peoples faith...because they dont understand it..they spend all their time trying to disprove it....religion isnt hard to debunk at all...religion is an institution and therefore man made and governed and open to corruption....what a person feels in their heart is faith and belief..it is impossible to disprove or discredit someones feelings and personality


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## blonddie07 (Jun 2, 2008)

Quantum physics! Lets go!


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## The Dude 4552 (Jun 2, 2008)

I just got through the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. I recommend it to Christians and non-Christians alike. He provides a level headed science and morality-based approach to the questions posed by dogmatic faith. 

The fact of the matter is while scientists are working towards discovering and explaining every facet of planet Earth, they always have time to review and (when it is warranted) debunk their own work. It is imperative that all material be credible and accepted by all in the scientific community for it to be accepted as truth.

Conversely, Christianity employs the unflinching devotion to scripture readings which date back thousands of years, which have seen no revisions since. These readings contain some notable quotables, but in the same breath advocate slavery, bigotry, torture racism and murder. It claims the earth was created in six days and has existed for only four thousand years.

Charles Darwins' theory of evolution is supported by leagues and leagues of scientific research and inquiry. countless experiments and hundreds of millions of fossils were taken. Evolutionary Biologists have compiled a multitude of research on cell biology and evolution to prove that all species evolve over the course of history.

Intelligent Design (as it is called) claims that there was one designer, who created the universe and all its planets, then chose to focus on Earth in particular. He created light and dark, _then _he created the sun and the moon. He created tadpoles and frogs, fawn and deer, and he creates full grown human beings who already know how to talk. Of course they have no evidence for this, save for some speculation about the formation of the grand canyon (great flood?)

Indeed, science has debunked Christianity a LONG time ago, but it is the rigid unflinching Christian dogma that has people pointed in the wrong direction and kept them facing the other way all this time.

Dont get me wrong, I think christians are good people I just think they should have looked outside their household for religious inspiration


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## trishmybiscuits (Jun 3, 2008)

email468 said:


> yep - not possible to debunk - let alone "once and for all".


The reason that I chose the title I did for this thread is because I don't believe that any rationally minded person could read the essay that this thread is based on and still attach any credibility to Christianity. Keep in mind, I said any rationally minded person. Ultimately there's people who are going to believe what they want to believe. There's also people who walk around with the mentality that every word of the bible is true and, therefore, none of it can be questioned. But for people who have open, rational, and unbiased minds, it should resonate.


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## email468 (Jun 3, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> The reason that I chose the title I did for this thread is because I don't believe that any rationally minded person could read the essay that this thread is based on and still attach any credibility to Christianity. Keep in mind, I said any rationally minded person. Ultimately there's people who are going to believe what they want to believe. There's also people who walk around with the mentality that every word of the bible is true and, therefore, none of it can be questioned. But for people who have open, rational, and unbiased minds, it should resonate.


I understand. Religion is more slippery than that though. You have folks, on this thread even, saying they don't believe in the bible but maintaining they are Christians. I don't know how they can justify it either but there it is.

Now if you are talking about debunking the bible strictly as history or fact - then that is a different story altogether.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 3, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> The reason that I chose the title I did for this thread is because I don't believe that any rationally minded person could read the essay that this thread is based on and still attach any credibility to Christianity. Keep in mind, I said any rationally minded person. Ultimately there's people who are going to believe what they want to believe. There's also people who walk around with the mentality that every word of the bible is true and, therefore, none of it can be questioned. But for people who have open, rational, and unbiased minds, it should resonate.


the problem is..christianity has been debunked years before this article...which imo is a lame attempt backed up with as much hearsay and opinions as the bible itself....you can only debunk with facts...any facts that this article stated were from age old arguments....great thread....rediculous article.......


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## The Dude 4552 (Jun 3, 2008)

Check out the Skeptics' Annotated Bible. Proof positive of the absurdity, injustice, intolerance, violence, and other reprehensible behavior propagated in the bible, annotated for easy reference.

Skeptic's Annotated Bible / Quran / Book of Mormon


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## PoseidonsNet (Jun 3, 2008)

> Proof positive of the absurdity, injustice, intolerance, violence, and other reprehensible behavior propagated in the bible


Just because the bible records "absurdity, injustice, intolerance, violence, and other reprehensible behavior" does not mean that it propagates it.

The Bible is 100x more reliable as historical record than any other document. The first printed books were all bibles, its the original benchmark for literacy.

Most people think the bible says other than what it does, because they have not READ it properly, if even at all.

Most people do not know how to read criticaly from within the spirit of the author's hitorical perspective.

There are dozens of books in the Bible with contrary opions and three dimensional debates.

If you are going to knock it - do so fairly - what other book would you say is better?
let me repeat that -

*what other book would you say is better?*


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## PoseidonsNet (Jun 3, 2008)

> Richard Dawkins... and morality-based approach


are two phrases that should only be used in the same sentence when separated with the word "NOT"

This is the idiot that suggests infidelity is moral because we all have a 'selfish gene'. This he calls 'science' ! Ha!

What Dawkins is, is an overgrown little boy with a genital complex. And he can't write very well either, so its not even entertaining nonsense, its boring nonsense.



> to the questions posed by dogmatic faith.


Dawkins equates faith with dogma. He cannot see science as dogma, like his quackery is. And he has never even heard of :

*RATIONAL FAITH*


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## PoseidonsNet (Jun 3, 2008)

*The Final Debunking Of Christianity* 
By DARILAC SEMARGO-BLOBI​ 


> It is they who are always waging a war against gays. It is they who are always waging a war against people who are pro-abortion. It is they who are always waging a war against what our kids are taught, or aren't taught, in school - evolution, for instance. It is they who are always waging a war against gay marriage. And on and on...


DARILAC SEMARGO-BLOBI is a sodomizing child-murderer.

What kind of a name is BLOBI? 
What utter *KAK!*


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## mr west (Jun 3, 2008)

calm down, I'll be right back.


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## mr west (Jun 3, 2008)

Actualy I wont be back. Ill catch ya later maybe.


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## The Dude 4552 (Jun 3, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> The Bible is 100x more reliable as historical record than any other document. The first printed books were all bibles, its the original benchmark for literacy.
> 
> Please show your work.


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## The Dude 4552 (Jun 3, 2008)

Rational Faith = Oxymoron


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## email468 (Jun 3, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> *what other book would you say is better?*


For morality? Tao Te Ching, Bhagavad Gita
For allegory? The Epic of Gilgamesh (you might like it - it even has a flood story)
For accuracy? Saying the bible is accurate, historically speaking, is flat out wrong. Whoever is giving you this information is grossly misinformed. Academic historians can't agree if Jesus even existed! There is no historical evidence that Herod had newborns killed (derived straight out of Exodus) and speaking of Exodus - no historical (outside the bible) or archeological evidence exists for the Exodus!

For readability? In my opinion, just about any damn book is better reading!

Yes, I've read it more than once - the Living and KJV.

And you calling Richard Dawkins an idiot - are you kidding?

Believe what you want but don't try spreading baloney especially in such childish and hostile missives.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 3, 2008)

personally..i like the art of war.......


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## email468 (Jun 3, 2008)

nickfury510 said:


> personally..i like the art of war.......


I thought you might! 
Will I ever learn not to involve myself in these discussions?!?!


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## PoseidonsNet (Jun 3, 2008)

To have faith in reason is not an oxymoron as faith and reason are not opposites.
How can you be reasonable unless you first have faith in reason itself?

Thus faith is a priori to reason.



> Please show your work.


1) Calculate the average income of Christian countries.
2) Calculate the average income of the rest.

3) No contest.


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## PoseidonsNet (Jun 3, 2008)

> And you calling Richard Dawkins an idiot - are you kidding?


No. I am saying he IS an idiot for trying to argue that infidelity is somehow moral, and he can produce NO substance from his work that does anything else.

His lectures were attrocious guilt-ridden attempts to do nothing more than justify whoring.

He contradicted himself throughout.

This is logical argument: infidelity is childish.


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## PoseidonsNet (Jun 3, 2008)

And Dawkins has a genital complex.


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## PoseidonsNet (Jun 3, 2008)

And BLOBI has an anal complex with strong pathalogical tendencies...


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## PoseidonsNet (Jun 3, 2008)

The Baghavad Gita is a beautiful book. But Arjuna is a warrior who regrets his violence. Not the essence of morality at all.

If you challenge the Bible's historical value, perhaps you could compare it with other ancient literature. And all the other modern literature exists as offshoots of the original book : The Bible.

Shakespeare even wrote one of the versions. So you consider The Bard to be a fool do you?


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## email468 (Jun 3, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> To have faith in reason is not an oxymoron as faith and reason are not opposites.
> How can you be reasonable unless you first have faith in reason itself?
> 
> Thus faith is a priori to reason.
> ...


Argument one: begging the question
You assume reason requires faith - it doesn't. Belief is a priori to faith. Logic is a priori to reason. Her handmaidens are evidence and observation.

Argument two: post hoc
You are assuming the income of Christian countries is based on their being Christian. "After this, therefore because of this." Of course you no doubt noticed that those incomes didn't start to rise until the age of science - perhaps i should make my own post hoc ergo propter hoc argument.. hmmm?


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## email468 (Jun 3, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> No. I am saying he IS an idiot for trying to argue that infidelity is somehow moral, and he can produce NO substance from his work that does anything else.
> 
> His lectures were attrocious guilt-ridden attempts to do nothing more than justify whoring.
> 
> ...


Now you're lying - you did call him an idiot. Just because you do not understand what he is saying does not make him wrong.


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## email468 (Jun 3, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> And Dawkins has a genital complex.


doubtful, but if he does, that does not make him wrong.


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## email468 (Jun 3, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> And BLOBI has an anal complex with strong pathalogical tendencies...


more ad hominem. the last resort of a lost argument.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 3, 2008)

email468 said:


> I thought you might!
> Will I ever learn not to involve myself in these discussions?!?!


wtf is that supposed to mean.......you got a fuckin problem.....
















































...heh...just kidding.....its a great book if you are planning on going into bussiness for yourself.....


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## email468 (Jun 3, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> The Baghavad Gita is a beautiful book. But Arjuna is a warrior who regrets his violence. Not the essence of morality at all.
> 
> If you challenge the Bible's historical value, perhaps you could compare it with other ancient literature. And all the other modern literature exists as offshoots of the original book : The Bible.
> 
> Shakespeare even wrote one of the versions. So you consider The Bard to be a fool do you?


So someone regretting their violence is not moral. Mmm OK - oh that's right you prefer the blood-soaked swords of the conquering Israelites.

The reason i challenge the bible's historical value is BECAUSE I read other ancient literature. You should try it.

I never called shakespeare a fool - WTF are you talking about?


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## email468 (Jun 3, 2008)

nickfury510 said:


> wtf is that supposed to mean.......you got a fuckin problem.....
> ...heh...just kidding.....its a great book if you are planning on going into bussiness for yourself.....


i was referring to your other posts - you certainly don't back down from an argument (nor should you).

it is a very instructive book.


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## The Dude 4552 (Jun 3, 2008)

Why is it that religious fundamentalists always feel they are right, but have no reason for thinking so? 

I asked you to provide evidence that the bible is 100 times more reliable historically than ANY other document, and that the first printed books were bibles and you responded by telling me to calculate the income of Christian countries and non-Christian countries? What does that have to do with the history of the bible and its reliability as a historical text?

Before I say something, I always check to make sure what I am saying is true. I guess this is what makes debating religion so difficult. I have to bend over backwards to research and gain knowledge on the subjects I wish to debate, and the religious side can just regurgitate the same false information ad nauseum until the debate goes away.


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## ZenMaster (Jun 3, 2008)

The Dude 4552 said:


> Why is it that religious fundamentalists always feel they are right, but have no reason for thinking so?
> 
> I asked you to provide evidence that the bible is 100 times more reliable historically than ANY other document, and that the first printed books were bibles and you responded by telling me to calculate the income of Christian countries and non-Christian countries? What does that have to do with the history of the bible and its reliability as a historical text?
> 
> Before I say something, I always check to make sure what I am saying is true. I guess this is what makes debating religion so difficult. I have to bend over backwards to research and gain knowledge on the subjects I wish to debate, and the religious side can just regurgitate the same false information ad nauseum until the debate goes away.


I've been through this like 10 pages ago. Its true, the Bible is the oldest history book. Watch the History Channel sometime, it has great programs like Decoding the Past or Ancient Mysteries. Point being, they dive into the Bible constantly and professional historians whether believers or skeptics give credit to the Bible being very accurate of its depiction of the past relating to different regions, kings, genealogy and also stories from the Bible. Its a known fact man.


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## We TaRdED (Jun 3, 2008)

ZenMaster said:


> Point being, they dive into the Bible constantly and professional historians whether believers or skeptics give credit to the Bible being very accurate of its depiction of the past relating to different regions, kings, genealogy and also stories from the Bible. Its a known fact man.


Do you have a link for that? 

The bible is as real as:

global warming, 911 being committed by "terrorists", fluoride in the water being good for teeth, and thinking the gov't is working for the people..

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## kronicsmurf (Jun 3, 2008)

there is no debunking christianity because people can choose what they want to believe thank God i live in a society where i can have that freedom


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## We TaRdED (Jun 3, 2008)

kronicsmurf said:


> there is no debunking christianity because people can choose what they want to believe thank God i live in a society where i can have that freedom


And I second that. I believe you should be able to believe whatever you want too. If believing in religion makes you happy than keep doing what your doing. Just don't let anyone take advantage of you because of it. My mom used to tell me "Let God take care of it", but God never took care of it. If you lose an arm, can you prey for it to come back? How come people don't prey for world peace more often, to the point where there is world peace? 

I was a Christian myself before I saw the movie Zeitgeist - The Movie and then I had to face the facts and change my views of the world. It was a very sad time for me, I wish there there was God. I use my logical brain to discern what is real. Religion, IMHO, was set up to control people. 

Like I said, if it makes you happy than do it. Just don't let people take advantage of you, and try and hold on to your money so you can afford bread once gas reaches 10 dollars a gallon. 

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## The Dude 4552 (Jun 4, 2008)

Alright, once again claims with no evidence.

Therefore, allow me to dig through a vast amount of research to prove to you the bible is not a reliable historical text. If you still dont believe me, get out your trusty bible for some fact checking:

Exodus 16:35 It took the Israelites 40 years to venture from Egypt to Canaan, when such a journey, even at that time, would have taken no more than ten days.

Joshua 8 the Israelites destroy Ai and make it a desolate heap. But Ai was an abandoned city by the time of the Israelites and this story is a myth invented to explain the ruins of an ancient city that the Israelites encountered.

Samuel 18:7-8 In what is surely a biblical exaggeration, we are told that "the servants of David" killed 20,000 soldiers in one day. And that "the wood [forest] devoured more people that day than the sword devoured." It must have been spooky forest to have devoured more than 20,000 soldiers.

Kings 2: 23-24 God sends two bears to rip up 42 little children for making fun of Elisha's bald head.

Chronicles 29:7 King David collects ten thousand drams (or darics) for the construction of the temple in Jerusalem. This is especially interesting since darics were coins named after King Darius I who lived some five hundred years after David.

2 Chronicles 26:19-21 God makes Uzziah a leper for burning incense without a license.

Ecclesiastes 1:5 Although this verse is interpreted figuratively today, it was taken literally by virtually all Christians until the Copernican revolution, and was used by the Church to condemn Galileo for teaching the heliocentric heresy.

Matthew 2:16 Herod kills all boys in and around Bethlehem that are two years old and under. Such a massacre would certainly have been noted by contemporary historians. Yet not even Josephus, who documented Herod's life in detail, mentioned this event.

Matthew 13: 31-32 Jesus is incorrect when he says that the mustard seed is the smallest seed. And since there are no trees in the mustard family, mustard seeds do not grow into "the greatest of all trees." The smallest seeds are found among the tropical, epiphytic orchids.

Matthew 27: 45, 51-53 When Jesus was crucified, there was three hours of complete darkness "over all the land." And when he died, there was a great earthquake with many corpses walking the streets of Jerusalem. It is strange that there is no record of any of these extraordinary events outside of the gospels.

Mark 10:6 Jesus believed that sex and Adam and Eve were created "from the beginning." But the universe is about 13.6 billion years old, the earth 4.6 billion, sex a billion years or so, and humans (depending on how you define "human") for a couple million years.

John 11:28 "These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing." But no such site is known in history. Some translations (ASV, NAB, NIV, RSV, NRSV) rename Bethabara as Bethany, but Bethany is a suburb of Jerusalem and, therefore, not "beyond the Jordan."

Acts 28: 3-8 Paul is bitten by a poisonous snake and yet lives. The "barbarians" who were shipwrecked with him thought he must be a murderer since he was bitten; but then they changed their minds and thought him to be a god since he didn't die. (The snake story is especially interesting since there are no poisonous snakes on Malta, and there is no evidence of their existence in the past.)

Romans 10:18 Paul says that everyone, even in his day, had the gospel preached to them. Even the Native Americans, Asians, Pacific Islanders?

1 Corinthians 15:36 Paul shows his ignorance (and God's) of biology by saying that only dead seeds will germinate. Actually, a seed must be alive to germinate.

Revelation 1:16 Jesus holds seven stars in his hand. Of course, it is possible that this is metaphorical. Perhaps. But it is clear from other verses (such as 6:13, 8:10, 12:4) that John thought of the stars as being small and only a few miles above our heads, perhaps even small enough for Jesus to hold in his hands.

Daniel 1:1 The third year of the reign of Jehoiakim would be 606 BCE, at which time Nebuchadnezzar was not yet king of Babylon. It was 597 BCE that Nebuchadnezzar invaded Jerusalem for the first time (without actually destroying it). By that time Jehohiakim was dead and his son, Jehoiachin, was ruling.

Daniel 5:31 Darius the Median is a fictitious character whom the author perhaps confused with Darius I of Persia, who came to the throne in 521 BCE, 17 years after the fall of Babylon. The author of Daniel incorrectly makes him the successor of Belshazzar instead of Cyrus.

2 Chronicles 13:34 Abijah spoke to 1,200,000 soldiers at one time. (He had a really loud voice.)

Jonah 3:3 "Now Nineveh was an exceeding great city" of three days' journey." That would make it about 60 miles in diameter -- larger than Los Angeles!

Ezra 6:1-2 "In the house of the rolls ... in Babylon" This is the only library building mentioned in the Bible. The author mistakenly thought that Media was a part of Babylon.

1 Chronicles 22:14 According to this verse David's army had 1,100,000 men from Israel and 470,000 men from Judah, Of course, this numbers is ridiculously high for a battle between two tribal armies in 1000 BCE. (The United States had about 1.37 million active duty soldiers in 2001)http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/almanac/almanac/at_a_glance.html

1 Chronicles 21:5 David provides Solomon with a fantastically large amount of gold and silver with which to build the temple: 100,000 talents of gold and 1,000,000 talents of silver. Since a talent was about 60 pounds, this would be about 3,000 tons of gold and 30,000 tons of silver.

Genesis 2:19 God fashions a woman out of one of Adam's ribs. 
Because of this story, it was commonly believed (and sometimes it is still said today) that males have one less rib than females. When Vesalius showed in 1543 that the number of ribs was the same in males and females, it created a storm of controversy.

Genesis 5:25 When Lamech was born, nine generations were alive at once. Adam, Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, and Lamech were all alive at the time of Lamech's birth. Adam lived to see his great-great-great-great-great-great-grandson.

Acts 5 Luke writes of the Pharisee Gamaliel's speech (vv. 34-39). This speech would have taken place around AD 35-40, yet it refers to Theudas' revolt of AD 46-47 as a past event. Furthermore, Gamaliel is made to say that "Judas the Galilean" raised a revolt which followed that of Theudas - but Judas' revolt was in AD 6 or 7! We know these dates from Josephus, most notably, as well as from other records.

 Hosea 5:13 the Assyrian King at that time was named Jareb. There was never an Assyrian king by that name, and the name of the king who did rule at that time was Tiglath-Pileser the third.

 Daniel 5:30-31 says that Darius the Median took over the Babylon empire, but it was Cyrus of Persia who overthrew the Babylonian Empire. While there is a Darius the first in history, there is no mention of a Darius of Median anywhere.

...shall I go on?


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## email468 (Jun 4, 2008)

Well Dude - facts and inconsistencies never got in the way of folks believing yet - doubt this will penetrate either - but here's hoping! 



The Dude 4552 said:


> Alright, once again claims with no evidence.
> 
> Therefore, allow me to dig through a vast amount of research to prove to you the bible is not a reliable historical text. If you still dont believe me, get out your trusty bible for some fact checking:<snip>
> ...shall I go on?


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## The Dude 4552 (Jun 4, 2008)

True but I take on a personal responsibility to educate the uneducated, in terms of religious belief. I have met so many agnostics and other fence-sitters that it frustrates me. Ironically enough, I have more respect for devout catholics and other deities than those who cant decide whether to believe or not. At least they believe in what they are saying as much as I believe in what I am saying. 

My aim is to take those who are disillusioned by religious indoctrination or who wont take the trouble of investigating the biggest questions plaguing the human race (How did we get here? who or what created the universe?) and present them with a fact-based scientific approach to explaining the creation of the world in which they live.

But, unlike religion, I will never impose my beliefs on those who do not want to hear them. I limit my expression to forums such as these, which promote open, unbiased discussion of religious ideals and when people approach me, asking for advice. 

It is unfortunate that Atheism is still an underground phenomenon; but _is _growing. Hopefully my rationalized, logical approach will help at least one person do some research of there own.


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## We TaRdED (Jun 4, 2008)

Religion is like the ultimate Santa Clause except you can never tell what is from God until you die. You better watch out, you better not cry, better not pout I'm telling you why....... because if you do than you will not be allowed into the gateway of heaven. Ohh, and pay up the taxes that you owe the church allowing you to get into heaven.

Some people believe God blessed them with a place to live, food, clothes, etc etc, but who is blessing those that don't believe in god with that stuff? Could it be possible that people obtain stuff on their own accord and with the help of friends and family?

I just don't see why Christians can't come together and pray that the world gets better and the price of fuel goes back to 1.50 a gallon. Isn't God capable of miracles? Whats so hard about praying for world peace and easing living for everyone?

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## nickfury510 (Jun 4, 2008)

heres a site full of bible bullshit
A List Of Biblical Contradictions


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## freedumb (Jun 4, 2008)

wow what a load of crap seriously.

and there have been accounts of people seeing an apparition of the devil


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## The Dude 4552 (Jun 4, 2008)

Apparitions? Thats fairytale phantasmic bullshit. There have been accounts of people seeing the flying spaghetti monster, in fact there is a cult that worships the apparition of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. People are fucking bonkers they see shit in their minds all the time, anecdotal evidence of an intangible object (apparition, as it were) is nonadmissable as fact.


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## babylonburn (Jun 6, 2008)

just live the life you love and you have nothing to worry about,,,,weak heart will be weak heart....dont stand in the way of the sinner nor sit upon the seat of his control....but live in the light and the law of the lord....as ii would say....back to the outernet hope ii helped all those on the internet


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## undertheice (Jun 6, 2008)

The Dude 4552 said:


> Apparitions?


i once saw the image of timothy leary in the beer stains on a cocktail napkin. i worshiped him for several months until i spied the outline of nancy reagan's face in the varicose veins on the legs of a particularly obese beach-goer and became completely confused, not to mention a bit nauseated. i then found jesus in back of a deserted warehouse. i offered to share my sandwich with him if he revealed to me the meaning of life, but he hit me over the head with a length of pipe and stole both my sandwich and my individual sized bag of fritos. i then awoke to the experience of being urinated on by a neighborhood bum. in my befuddled state i believed him to be an embodiment of vishnu and pleaded with him for some small favor. instead i was beaten once again and lost both my wallet and my vintage mickey mouse wrist watch. bruised, confused, pungent with the excrement of the homeless and completely at a loss as to the time of day, i trudge wearily on - seeking signs and portents and attempting to divine some order in this chaotic universe. i think fondly of those simpler times, of the stains on a paper napkin and the faith that they instilled. am i wiser for my discoveries or merely a fool for having believed at all?

i sure wish i could afford a cheeseburger.


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## email468 (Jun 6, 2008)

undertheice said:


> i once saw the image of timothy leary in the beer stains on a cocktail napkin. i worshiped him for several months until i spied the outline of nancy reagan's face in the varicose veins on the legs of a particularly obese beach-goer and became completely confused, not to mention a bit nauseated. i then found jesus in back of a deserted warehouse. i offered to share my sandwich with him if he revealed to me the meaning of life, but he hit me over the head with a length of pipe and stole both my sandwich and my individual sized bag of fritos. i then awoke to the experience of being urinated on by a neighborhood bum. in my befuddled state i believed him to be an embodiment of vishnu and pleaded with him for some small favor. instead i was beaten once again and lost both my wallet and my vintage mickey mouse wrist watch. bruised, confused, pungent with the excrement of the homeless and completely at a loss as to the time of day, i trudge wearily on - seeking signs and portents and attempting to divine some order in this chaotic universe. i think fondly of those simpler times, of the stains on a paper napkin and the faith that they instilled. am i wiser for my discoveries or merely a fool for having believed at all?
> 
> i sure wish i could afford a cheeseburger.


 don't worry -- you'll be blessed for keeping the faith.


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## undertheice (Jun 6, 2008)

i fear i am damned to an eternity of "i love lucy" reruns and the lost episodes of "chips". being only human, i have found no solace in myth and legend. i have worshiped at the altar of science and found its priests mean spirited and self-absorbed, i have perused the ancient texts and seen mostly bigotry and elitist posing, i have even attempted to bargain with the beasts of the pit and realized what charlatans and fools their disciples are. there is nothing left to believe in but my own meager perceptions and a healthy number rolled with care, there is naught to look forward to but a well earned rest.


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## txhomegrown (Jun 7, 2008)

I think the devil did it. Booooooo devil.
The only difference between a religion and a cult is the number of members.


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## Crumbles (Jun 7, 2008)

that proves nothing. that article proved just as much as the bible does. thats your problem, thats everybody's problem. you just wrote soemthing down that everyone was already familiar with and think you're so smart when its all said and done. you keep using the word christians when theres so many different branches of christianity its impossible to categorize followers into one category. People knew about other continents back then, read the books man. read poetry from philosophers from that time and period. read about trade routes. fuckin' read the bible. I know how the religious system works with politics in america and so do all the average joes. I didn't need to read that article. Even if your aim was to debunk religion you've also just stated the importance of religion. Laws, Civilization, Society in itself has always set on a religious foundation and i dont find that to be a bad thing. Its not religion that so negatively influences people. its people themselves. the human element twists religion you said it yourself.. how they interpret the bible text to their wanting. yeah thats people.

Anything introduced to the human element is forever tainted.

simple as that.

in the end you want a ban on religion and its brainwashing? what will that do? make the governments job easier to turn us into mindless cattle. i mean they've already got 60 percent of the american public as mindless tila tequila watching sheep. taking religion out of school, out of life. is not the answer.


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## SocataSmoker (Jun 7, 2008)

Can we all just accept the fact that we can neither prove, no disprove the existance of the Christian God? Sprituality if real, is on a much higher plane than human existence and science that we cannot possibly even begin to study it.


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## Crumbles (Jun 7, 2008)

thats not fun though. its just a forum board. we're not at each others throats or anything.


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## email468 (Jun 7, 2008)

SocataSmoker said:


> Can we all just accept the fact that we can neither prove, no disprove the existance of the Christian God? Sprituality if real, is on a much higher plane than human existence and science that we cannot possibly even begin to study it.


No. I will accept that we can not prove the existence of any god.

drop out the christian, cause apparently there are many gods. drop out the disprove - cause you can't prove a negative.


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## email468 (Jun 7, 2008)

Crumbles said:


> that proves nothing. that article proved just as much as the bible does. thats your problem, thats everybody's problem. you just wrote soemthing down that everyone was already familiar with and think you're so smart when its all said and done. you keep using the word christians when theres so many different branches of christianity its impossible to categorize followers into one category. People knew about other continents back then, read the books man. read poetry from philosophers from that time and period. read about trade routes. fuckin' read the bible. I know how the religious system works with politics in america and so do all the average joes. I didn't need to read that article. Even if your aim was to debunk religion you've also just stated the importance of religion. Laws, Civilization, Society in itself has always set on a religious foundation and i dont find that to be a bad thing. Its not religion that so negatively influences people. its people themselves. the human element twists religion you said it yourself.. how they interpret the bible text to their wanting. yeah thats people.
> 
> Anything introduced to the human element is forever tainted.
> 
> ...


If you actually do what you suggest, you quickly discover how inaccurate the bible really is....


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## Crumbles (Jun 7, 2008)

do what i suggest? I didn't say look for facts in the bible. I said do a little research elsewhere and you can find people knew about far away continents in those days. dont try to pick my writing. what you don't get is. im just defending my point. Religion is not as negative on society as this guy's article claims it to be, but thats his opinion and this is mine.

As for your reply. Did you not read the very beginning, "that proves nothing. that article proved just as much as the bible does." read that over and over till you understand what i said.

Biscuits and Gravy says that religion is more a burden and should be banned. I say its something that is crucial for all world cultures. Theres nothing wrong with being an aetheist. theres nothing wrong with being a jew, christian, tibetan monk, or whatever.

Everythings based on perspective. Thats the human element I was talking about.


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## email468 (Jun 7, 2008)

Crumbles said:


> do what i suggest? I didn't say look for facts in the bible. I said do a little research elsewhere and you can find people knew about far away continents in those days. dont try to pick my writing. what you don't get is. im just defending my point. Religion is not as negative on society as this guy's article claims it to be, but thats his opinion and this is mine.
> 
> As for your reply. Did you not read the very beginning, "that proves nothing. that article proved just as much as the bible does." read that over and over till you understand what i said.
> 
> ...


I agree that you said: that article proved just as much as the bible does. And the rest of your statements alluded to your believing and defending that statement.

Which is why I disagree. I am saying the article proves far more than the bible does (or can). And I said if one follows your advice (reading the bible and other writers from the time) - whoever does would probably disagree with you also. And I continue to stand by what i said. Though I do agree the article did not "debunk" as that is not really possible. It certainly does show the bible for what it is (allegorical literature) and what it isn't (accurate history).

You may find nothing wrong with people believing things without evidence - but others, like myself, have a VERY big problem when some of the things people believe encourages them to fly airplanes into buildings. Or thinking destroying the temple in Jerusalem would bring about Christ's return is another extremely dangerous mindset. Especially considering the volatile situation in Middle East and a Christian US president! I have no problem with people believing things without evidence. And frankly, it is none of my business (unless they push policies based on their beliefs - then it becomes my business). No one, including myself, knows for certain if there is a god or not (other than zealots) but because no one knows for certain, we should base our public policy on what we do know for certain and most definitely not on what people believe. 

and I hope that was a typo about keeping religion out of schools. I am not sure where you live, but not only is religion already out of schools, the US constitution demands it remain that way.


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## Crumbles (Jun 7, 2008)

the whole point of that article was to defend this statement Religion is not as negative on society as the article says. 


are you saying religion is causing people to fly into airplanes. thats just ignorant, and just as bad as a Klan member saying he hates jews.

i keep pushing it and pushing it in your face but you people dont understand

theres nothign wrong with religion

theres something wrong with us as a race, as a people. you think this shit wouldnt happen without religion? and if you ban religion you think people would just go "well thats a good idea maybe we should go get jobs at mcdonalds" that would throw the world into a violence with no precedent.


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## email468 (Jun 7, 2008)

Crumbles said:


> the whole point of that article was to defend this statement Religion is not as negative on society as the article says.
> 
> 
> are you saying religion is causing people to fly into airplanes. thats just ignorant, and just as bad as a Klan member saying he hates jews.
> ...


The whole point of the article was to prove Christianity couldn't be based in reality. It wasn't written to prove religion has no negative impact on society - the article was written to prove the opposite. not sure what you're even talking about here - did we read the same article? Or are you referring to your last post as "the article"?

Are you saying religion has no negative impact on society?
are you also saying religion had nothing to do with 9/11? 
are you saying because i say it was muslims crashing those planes, because they believed their God was going to reward them for doing so, makes me equivalent to a KKK member?

I am asking these questions because you are not very clear and getting a little hysterical.

I am not saying all bad things stem from religion and said nothing that came close to inferring that. But there is a lot wrong with religion and religion has a huge negative impact on our (and all) societies. Again I will add - does it do some good? Yes. Does it do bad? Yes. How much of each and the impact is debatable.


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## Crumbles (Jun 7, 2008)

everythis has negatives and positives but i feel the positives of religion outweigh the negatives. the whole point of that article was to say religion has no positive impact. I aslo believe our own gov knocked down the towers. but your saying all muslims feel that way. thats why it sounded racist to me. if you havent noticed its the majority of the muslim community that was condemning those actions. as many holes you poke and prod at of mine you have just as many.


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## email468 (Jun 7, 2008)

Crumbles said:


> everythis has negatives and positives but i feel the positives of religion outweigh the negatives. the whole point of that article was to say religion has no positive impact. I aslo believe our own gov knocked down the towers. but your saying all muslims feel that way. thats why it sounded racist to me. if you havent noticed its the majority of the muslim community that was condemning those actions. as many holes you poke and prod at of mine you have just as many.


Absolutely agree most everything has both positive and negatives. I think the article was explaining how the bible couldn't be historically accurate. And how the God described in the bible is an adequate or hateful God. I did not take away that the article was condemning all religion and/or saying religion has no positive impact. Perhaps I should read the article again though i'm pretty sure i recall it correctly. I don't believe the article ever said religion has no positive impact - but could be mistaken.

As to the good outweighing the bad - that is certainly debatable. And thinking there is more good to religion is a fine and defensible position.

I never said all muslims feel that way. Even if i did, that would not make me a racist. Muslims are not a race. Do i really need to explain this? I could say I hate all muslims (i don't) and that would still not make me a racist. A bigoted fool, yes. But not racist. For the record, I don't hate any group of people collectively.

What i did notice was far too much silence from the Muslim majority over horrendous acts committed by their fanatical few. The muslims desperately need their reformation and soon! Martin Luther for Muslims where are you?

Seems like the only holes you find are ones you create yourself by putting words into my mouth.


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## We TaRdED (Jun 7, 2008)

Crumbles said:


> everythis has negatives and positives but i feel the positives of religion outweigh the negatives. .


Religion is not a bad thing in my opinion. If you want to believe in God or w/e than thats cool. If it makes YOU happy, than thats all that matters. Right?

I do believe that religion has been used for evils to help conquer adjacent placid countries in the past- just look at the Roman empire. I believe the bible is full of good morals and it would be nice if everyone was as humble as the bible teaches. 

My mother was a very devout Christian(single mom) and would always tell me "Put your faith in God, he will take care of things in the end"... Anyways, I have come to the conclusion that she was full of shyt. Everything I have done has been of my own accord. Why doesn't the churches pray for world peace? Why not pray for someones terminal back pain to go away? Why not pray for everyone to enjoy life to the fullest?

If you are religious, my advice to you is DON'T LET ANY ONE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOU BECAUSE OF IT!! Some people are just straight con-artist predators. Don't pay 10% of your income(tithes) to the church, but rather buy some cheeseburgers for a homeless person(I do it... I would rather give a vagabond food than money that he could potentially spend on drugs..) Or better yet, give your money to a family member in need. 

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## Crumbles (Jun 7, 2008)

i forgot how to spell the other word and didnt want to look it up. lol i know the difference

alright im a little buzzed so lets talk yall! i feel that we're putting emotions to words and its not sounding right to each other lol. i always hate when i or other people do it.

ive always believed religion should be a personal thing. i could never go to church and listen to a man preach to me especially when he's denouncing marijuana when i was aware of his pot use and stealing from the church. lol, fuck the collection plate he wasn't gettin nothin from my family.. but that was because they're cheap. the precher before that got aids from a hooker, beat his wife and kid, and gave aids to the sunday school teacher and she gave it to her husband

some people.. but hey thats everybody religion or not. 

i'll say this

the best way to explain the bible is helpful stories that can teach us and enlighten us. i dont think the bible is an accurate portrayal of history and never have but i still feel its important for any person who wants to explore any religion.

all of us smoke for different reasons. just like religion. we believe what we believe for different reasons and even if we cant agree on that. we still have sweet sticky bud to bring us together.

-hugs for all-


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## nickfury510 (Jun 7, 2008)

religion is the foundation that hatered, bigotry, and war is based on........


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## Crumbles (Jun 7, 2008)

what?

as you can tell with chimpanzees, ants, and every form of life. War is a natural instinct. Bigotry will be around forever, religion regardless. 

Hatred.. 

tell me an aetheist never hated somebody?


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## email468 (Jun 7, 2008)

fuckin' a!
puff, puff, pass! 



Crumbles said:


> i forgot how to spell the other word and didnt want to look it up. lol i know the difference
> 
> alright im a little buzzed so lets talk yall! i feel that we're putting emotions to words and its not sounding right to each other lol. i always hate when i or other people do it.
> 
> ...


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## nickfury510 (Jun 7, 2008)

Crumbles said:


> what?
> 
> as you can tell with chimpanzees, ants, and every form of life. War is a natural instinct. Bigotry will be around forever, religion regardless.
> 
> ...


im not saying its the only cause.....but for an institution the preaches love and peace and everlasting happiness it has accumalated a pretty good body count....more people die over religion than any other cause...while animals fight and war for survival..we fight and war for a being that nobody has ever scene..because the religion of choice says that their way of worship is right and all others are wrong.....you want to see some of the great things religious institutions have been the cause of..checkout the spanish inquisition....


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## Crumbles (Jun 7, 2008)

check out communist china and how they slaughtered every monk in tibet because.. religion is not allowed


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## email468 (Jun 8, 2008)

Crumbles said:


> check out communist china and how they slaughtered every monk in tibet because.. religion is not allowed


Hi Crumbles - i would only point out that it is irrelevant. Even if atheists and other non-believers killed a million times more than any religion - that would not make the folks killed by religion any less dead.

But even more to the point, it was an ideology that encompassed much more than secularism under Mao. 

And communism wasn't even secular - or at least scientifically/atheistically so - it was a slave to its ideology much like religion is to its dogma. When genetics threatened to throw egalitarianism out the window, the communist countries held on to Lamarckism like it were religious dogma.

so once again - faith - belief without evidence - is at the bottom of humanities biggest mischiefs.

something to consider anyway...


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## undertheice (Jun 8, 2008)

Crumbles said:


> thats not fun though. its just a forum board. we're not at each others throats or anything.


speak for yourself. i'm here to crush the hopes and dreams of as many as i can before i drift off into the nothingness of eternity. i want the rest of humanity to consider their own lives as hollow and pointless as i do my own. why should others be able to delude themselves with dreams of paradise when i am trapped in this mundane world of day to day fact, with no higher purpose and no future but the grave.


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## nickfury510 (Jun 8, 2008)

Crumbles said:


> check out communist china and how they slaughtered every monk in tibet because.. religion is not allowed


Zeitgeist - The Movie

check this movie out...its a really great viewpoint...it takes a few minutes start...but worth the wait........


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## Microdizzey (Jun 8, 2008)

bah. no more zeitgeist please. it's crap

there are better movies for you to see that are somewhat related.


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## We TaRdED (Jun 8, 2008)

undertheice said:


> speak for yourself. i'm here to crush the hopes and dreams of as many as i can before i drift off into the nothingness of eternity. i want the rest of humanity to consider their own lives as hollow and pointless as i do my own. why should others be able to delude themselves with dreams of paradise when i am trapped in this mundane world of day to day fact, with no higher purpose and no future but the grave.


I also have some bitterness, undertheice. On the other hand, I'm not here to crush people hopes and dreams, but rather to get people to think. I would like more people to take the red pill, and see how deep the rabbit hole goes..~lol~ YouTube - Take the red pill



Microdizzey said:


> bah. no more zeitgeist please. it's crap
> 
> there are better movies for you to see that are somewhat related.


Do you have any links bookmarked? Lets check out what your talking about.

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## The Dude 4552 (Jun 8, 2008)

Zeitgeist was one of the first movies on the subject of _Zeitgeists _I have seen, but there are MANY MANY other 'movies' you can watch that will elaborate on the subjects contained within it.

My favorite sites for such documentaries:

Channel: ConspiracyCentral on LiveVideo.com
http://www.freedocumentaries.org
Documantis - Watch Free Documentaries Online and Religion Movies
best.online.docus - Best Online Documentaries

Please, do not attempt to debunk Christianity, 9/11, or the Federal Reserve if you're only evidence is contained in Zeitgeist. You cannot just watch one movie, go to your friends and say 'you GOTTA see this movie.' These subjects are very taboo and have to do with the deaths of millions of people over the past one hundred years. Take the time to do some thorough research and then make the decision for yourself. 

I suggest reading one of the foremost geo-political authors alive today, Noam Chomsky. He was one of the first scholars to protest the Vietnam war and has a library of books on government control, media indoctrination, and manipulation of language to control minds. (i.e. religion) He is no quack I assure you, and his books can be found at your local bookstore (under world politics/philosophy). If you want a visual introduction, there are some Noam Chomsky Docs in the above sites (manufacturing consent being a key one, based on the book of the same title)

Alternatively, use the internet for what it is: The worlds' Biggest open-source Virtual Library. While alot of the information available is true, there is an equal amount of disinformation there to throw you off track (_Cough Cough _*David Icke and the Zionist shape-shifting lizards *_Cough Cough_). The best way to make an informed decision is to RESEARCH and BE CRITICAL. Don't believe that which you cannot prove.


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## UndercoverGrower (Jun 9, 2008)

Christianity is a joke.. I've studied the basics of philosophy and in it Plato states the only reason religion was even ever created was so the governments, kingdoms, leaders, whoever was able to control the mind of unintelligent humans for the better of the human race of course... for eg. the ten commandments 

"Thou shall not kill" so people stop killing each other. 
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image." people stop thinking about killing each other...
"Thou shall not steal" People stop stealing from each other. 
"Thou shall not be covet" people shouldn't even think of stealing things. 
"Honour thy father and thy mother." obey your parents/superiors, they will teach you to live through life.
"Thou shalt not commit adultery" don't have sex before marriage...
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" So the people would believe in their theory other than the other 100s of gods there are...

This is the most important because many other gods were believed in back then and the leaders needed the people to believe they were going to go to hell for an "eternity" not a life-time if they didn't believe in the "christan god," but those who obeyed the commandments could enjoy heaven for an eternity on the clouds.

Which should basically sum what this group of superior intelligent "leaders" did to make a socialized human society instead of us all killing each other. plus all the other commandments but there just loyalty honor, and truth. which I could go on about but they seem pretty obvious... don't be a douch

These guys must have been the smartest guys of all of humanity if you think about it.

[FONT=&quot]"You are all descendants from the creation of the Eternal Father, Adam and Eve. And as such you face the trials, you face the punishments, as they did; for there is a reward for holiness and purity and piety and following the Commandments of your God. And then, My children, there is also a deficit in reward by your banishment to the abyss, eternal damnation forever with Lucifer." 
This is just one quote from the bible which should sum the whole bible it started with incest, brother/sister family adam and eve... which also committed Adultery so they obivously went to hell and so must all of us if its true so why even beleive in god? if your just going to hell 

I'm sure me or anyone else could just on and on, but from my experience I've never even went to church 1 Sunday and seeing 1 earth compared to the millions of other planets in the universe and were the only one with life seems pretty ridiculous...

Especially when we can recreate life with our own "light,soil, and water" hell... if you think far out... a seed grows underground "WITHOUT" any light and roots continue to grow and grow without any light so why do you need light for life? you don't! millions of species exist deep in the ocean where light doesn't even exist...

it just seems like some of these people ate alot of mushrooms or moon flower seeds like me and seen gods in the sky... sounds pretty cheesy haha
[/FONT]


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## The Dude 4552 (Jun 9, 2008)

Well I have to say its good to have some level-headed individuals involved in an engrossing religious debate. Very rarely do topics of religion get a thorough and critical analysis.


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## tckfui (Jun 9, 2008)

cool definetly going to read this... but finnaly?! hasnt it been debunked long ago?! jesus didnt exist its a story from the constellations, christmass is about the constellatons and so are the three wise men, there have been hundreds of false profets with nearly the exact story of jesus!!! hundreds! 
the cross is the pagain symbol for the zodiac, Amen is the sun god of egypt yet his name is found over and over and over and over again in the bible, even in the word testament.
ummm jesus completly contradicts himself all day, the bible contradicts itsself allday, anyone with half a mind debunked christianity long ago!!!!!
jesus pretty much says that noone can get into heaven!!! which is a pretty funny story I think I may make a thread about that, jesus, what a silly goose.


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## The Dude 4552 (Jun 9, 2008)

Yes, most all religions are based on early Paganism (sun worship) and the Zodiac serves as the basis for most religious ideology. Jesus being a resemblance of the age of Aquarius , The Christian Cross being the cross of the zodiac, etc.

I guess when they created this thread they should have chose their wording more wisely (pun intended). Houdini 'debunked' seances and physic ability yet psychics and 'The Biggest Douche in the Universe' Jon Edward still have people believing in things that are completely and provably false. Christianity is in the same boat. Science and logic have 'debunked' Christianity long ago, but the ignorance and gullibility of the human condition keeps myths like these alive. Not to mention the extraordinary political power of the religious lobby in North America.


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## email468 (Jun 9, 2008)

The zodiac (circle of animals/path) is a symbol so doesn't really require another symbol to represent it.

there is no cross in the zodiac and a cross was never used to symbolize it. crux (the southern cross) is a southern hemisphere constellation (documented only hundreds of years ago - unlike the zodiac which is 1000s of years old) and the "cross" of cygnas the swan is a high (zenith - not zodiac) summer constellation. the zodiac constellations have been around a long time and none of them were recorded as a cross (at least prior to Christianity).

the zodiac is just a group of constellations strung out along the ecliptic (the path the sun, moon and most of the planets make across the sky. It is called the zodiac because most of the constellations are animals (zoo-logical) - though a few of them aren't. One zodiac constellation: Ophiuchus never seems to make it into horoscopes.... hmmm.

So the different ages are represented by the Sun "moving" through that particular constellation. The constellations change their position in the sky over time (mostly all together and in the same direction). This is called the precession of the equinoxes (not to be confused with Earth's precession - the wobbling on the axis - though this causes the other). Over great amounts of time (about 2000 years), the constellations appear to spin around in the sky (changing locations) so 2000 years ago, the vernal equinox (first day of spring) occurred in Pisces. The next 2000 years or so, the vernal equinox occurs in the constellation Aquarius (it is the dawning of the age of Aquarius, the age of Aquarius.....). I believe the next age will be Capricornus.


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## hyphyjoose (Jun 9, 2008)

for the record,

i'm agnostic

but, for inquiring minds

Tekton Apologetics Ministries. James Patrick Holding. Tektonitron apologetics Encyclopedia. answering Bible difficulties and Bible contradictions is amazing

as for christianity being debunked..lol that's funny..that's like saying atheism: debunked

sorry, both sides have amazing answers to life's questions..if only there was a way to assimilate them..that's why i stay agnostic


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## nickfury510 (Jun 10, 2008)

The Dude 4552 said:


> Yes, most all religions are based on early Paganism (sun worship) and the Zodiac serves as the basis for most religious ideology. Jesus being a resemblance of the age of Aquarius , The Christian Cross being the cross of the zodiac, etc.
> 
> I guess when they created this thread they should have chose their wording more wisely (pun intended). Houdini 'debunked' seances and physic ability yet psychics and *'The Biggest Douche in the Universe' Jon Edward* still have people believing in things that are completely and provably false. Christianity is in the same boat. Science and logic have 'debunked' Christianity long ago, but the ignorance and gullibility of the human condition keeps myths like these alive. Not to mention the extraordinary political power of the religious lobby in North America.


....he even beat out a giant douche to win that title.....


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## trishmybiscuits (Jun 11, 2008)

hyphyjoose said:


> as for christianity being debunked..lol that's funny..that's like saying atheism: debunked


I already addressed this but it looks like it's going to be an ongoing thing. The reason I chose the title that I did for this thread is because I don't believe any rationally minded person could read the essay this thread is based on still attach any credibility to Christianity.

Obviously, however, there's a lot of people who don't want Christianity debunked; they want to believe in a supreme being.


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## Manjinken (Jun 12, 2008)

i am not religious and i think religion is 98% ignorance. but those points are fairly dumb and simple minded.

not to mention using simple minded points to debunk simple minded people doesnt really strike me as intelligent.


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## We TaRdED (Jun 12, 2008)

Does anyone think there are (respectively) more "simple minded" religious people than "smart" people? In other words, do you think "smart" people don't believe in religion as much because they are "intelligent"?

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## email468 (Jun 12, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> Does anyone think there are (respectively) more "simple minded" religious people than "smart" people? In other words, do you think "smart" people don't believe in religion as much because they are "intelligent"?
> 
> RON PAUL REVOLUTION
> 
> ~PEACE~


I have no idea - but my opinion is I think you'll find that there is no correlation between intelligence and religious belief. There may be one between intelligence and fundamentalist religious belief.

I think smart people are very good at justifying believing things for not so smart reasons.


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## tckfui (Jun 12, 2008)

email468 said:


> I have no idea - but my opinion is I think you'll find that there is no correlation between intelligence and religious belief. There may be one between intelligence and fundamentalist religious belief.
> 
> I think smart people are very good at justifying believing things for not so smart reasons.



good point, I do that at least 3 times a day 

the cross has been used for thousands of years to represent the zodiac, not the cross alone but a cross with a circle around it, do a quick google search, surly you didnt think the zodiac killer was the first to use this symbol.


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## email468 (Jun 12, 2008)

tckfui said:


> good point, I do that at least 3 times a day
> 
> the cross has been used for thousands of years to represent the zodiac, not the cross alone but a cross with a circle around it, do a quick google search, surly you didnt think the zodiac killer was the first to use this symbol.


Oh - I think i know what you're talking about now - but i don't think it is a cross. I think it is a circle divided into 12 segments. Sometimes this is broken down into 4 segments, which i would describe as an X in a circle. Calling it a cross in a christian-debunking thread carries far too much connotation. 


Is something like this what you're talking about?


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## tckfui (Jun 12, 2008)

yea its more like a plus sign in/ on a circle





which shows an odd resemblance to this 





which is an episcopal cross, granted the episcopals didnt come around untill quite some time after the christian church was started, but this symbol predates them by far.


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## email468 (Jun 12, 2008)

tckfui said:


> yea its more like a plus sign in/ on a circle
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've never seen this used to represent the zodiac - other than the zodiac killer signature - but i wouldn't consider that an endorsement 

Absolutely agree that the cross and cross-in-circle predate christianity by a long ways.


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## tckfui (Jun 13, 2008)

so we agree  
if the cross predates christanity and had nothing to do with jewdism prior to christianity, than it is a pagan symbol that dosnt belong... right?
I'll argue against myself now, but arent all symbols pagan? I mean, the dove, oliv branch, all of this must have had the same or symilar symbolic meaning before the Bible, they didnt just make this stuff up for fun... well, kind of I guess  but symbols usualy have a deaper meaning that somone just making them up for I dont even know where I'm going with this... that seems to be happening with me alot latly, I just keep going of on little sidenotes until I forget what was going on where I am, who I am, and wheather or not I'm even there or alive, see I dont know whats going on right now, but I think that was pretty apparent


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## email468 (Jun 13, 2008)

tckfui said:


> so we agree
> if the cross predates christanity and had nothing to do with jewdism prior to christianity, than it is a pagan symbol that dosnt belong... right?
> I'll argue against myself now, but arent all symbols pagan? I mean, the dove, oliv branch, all of this must have had the same or symilar symbolic meaning before the Bible, they didnt just make this stuff up for fun... well, kind of I guess  but symbols usualy have a deaper meaning that somone just making them up for I dont even know where I'm going with this... that seems to be happening with me alot latly, I just keep going of on little sidenotes until I forget what was going on where I am, who I am, and wheather or not I'm even there or alive, see I dont know whats going on right now, but I think that was pretty apparent


are you asking - did the early christians appropriate pagan and jewish symbols, holidays, and stories into their religion - the answer is unequivocally yes! That is not unique to christianity though - religions borrowed and appropriated things like that all the time - including the gods themselves - which is why we have Zeus/Jupiter, Hera/Juno, etc...

and even the ten commandments infers other gods too - thou shalt have no other gods before me (oddly - it doesn't say you can't have other gods - just no other top god).


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## tckfui (Jun 13, 2008)

never noticed that about the commandments, make sence, they were tricky bastards back then  
I know that alot of riligions borrowed from others, but again I'm not sure what I was getting at, but I think I was trying to say is that if we know they borrowed almost everything including symbols and people and the way they lived, dosnt that disprove the religions right their? you cant borrow stuff from somone else and say their wrong without being wrong yourself... or somthing like that?


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## email468 (Jun 13, 2008)

tckfui said:


> never noticed that about the commandments, make sence, they were tricky bastards back then
> I know that alot of riligions borrowed from others, but again I'm not sure what I was getting at, but I think I was trying to say is that if we know they borrowed almost everything including symbols and people and the way they lived, dosnt that disprove the religions right their? you cant borrow stuff from somone else and say their wrong without being wrong yourself... or somthing like that?


you raise a very good point. And while I may not believe this myself, I would mention that there could be a kernel of universal truth that each religion attempts to capture in their own way. keep in mind this is coming from an atheist


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## We TaRdED (Jun 13, 2008)

email468 said:


> And while I may not believe this myself, I would mention that there could be a kernel of universal truth that each religion attempts to capture in their own way. keep in mind this is coming from an atheist


I like it email! Sounds good to me. 

The world will never know.............(but thats how it was suppose to be.... right? HAHA)

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## email468 (Jun 13, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> I like it email! Sounds good to me.
> 
> The world will never know.............(but thats how it was suppose to be.... right? HAHA)
> 
> ...


the whole "many paths up the mountain" philosophy sounds like a nice one to me.


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## tckfui (Jun 13, 2008)

I used to live on a mountain.


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## email468 (Jun 13, 2008)

tckfui said:


> I used to live on a mountain.


so you were already part way there!
I love the mountains!


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## tckfui (Jun 13, 2008)

HAHA!!! it was a trap! and you went right for iT!!! I never lived on a mountain!!! HAHAHA NOW YOU ALL LOOK LIKE FOOLS!!!

now maybe you have a vetter understanding of who exactly you are dealing with


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## email468 (Jun 13, 2008)

tckfui said:


> HAHA!!! it was a trap! and you went right for iT!!! I never lived on a mountain!!! HAHAHA NOW YOU ALL LOOK LIKE FOOLS!!!
> 
> now maybe you have a vetter understanding of who exactly you are dealing with


Yep. I sure fell for your trap. I still love the mountains though.


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## We TaRdED (Jun 14, 2008)

tckfui said:


> HAHAHA NOW YOU ALL LOOK LIKE FOOLS!!!
> 
> now maybe you have a vetter understanding of who exactly you are dealing with


Whos "you all", as in "YOU ALL LOOK LIKE FOOLS!!"?

Why would you lie about something so foolish? It makes you look foolish, if you ask me. No offence tckfui.... I still love you bro, I'm just being honest

And who are we dealing with? A liar? You "vetter" not lie to me!!! (I'm a jerk! Sorry, I just felt like busting your balls....................... HEHE)

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~

Edit- I love climbing mountains too... I just can never find anyone strong enough for the excursions that I like to go on 

.


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## tckfui (Jun 14, 2008)

HAHA!!!! so right you are WE!!!! you all is everybody, even mee!!! I think
and yes you are dealing with a crazy pathological lier who makes up lies about stupid shit!!! you really do have a vetter idea of who you are dealing with now, my post has done its job!!!
I HATE CLIMBING MOUNTAINS!!! (well I've never tried it) but I like skiing down them!!! its 23 times as fast and twice as slow!!! I mean, what?


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## trishmybiscuits (Jun 17, 2008)

tckfui said:


> HAHA!!! it was a trap! and you went right for iT!!! I never lived on a mountain!!! HAHAHA NOW YOU ALL LOOK LIKE FOOLS!!!
> 
> now maybe you have a vetter understanding of who exactly you are dealing with


You're right about that - a liar! When you said you used to live on a mountain when in fact you never did, well, in my book that makes you a liar. So, you're right, we do have a better understanding of who exactly we're dealing with - a liar!


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## BudLuvr (Jun 19, 2008)

For one thing ,I think Jesus had bigger things to worry about than to tell the people of the time about the damn sun and the stars. For another, that is a myth about people assuming the world was flat in those days, look it up on the History Channel web site. Viruses and bacteria?!!! Are you fucking kidding me? You probably have no idea how they work yourself, and you grew up in these times. It would have been an awful waste for Jesus to be a damn college professor rather than the Savior of the human race. Those people had no need to understand those things, Jesus was worried more about there souls than if they got herpes.
The wonderful mathematical figures the idiot came up with? We are not talking about Bill Gates making decisions that fast or even a super computer, we are talking about the Supreme Being. the One who created everything. His ability to know everything is just too much for the small human brain to comprehend, It is impossible to measure the ability of something infinite. I'll agree with the autor on one point, Christians do misinterpret the OLD TESTEMENT. This was a series of books that included parables mixed in with a little fact, and some important information if it is interpreted correctly. For accurate interpretation and insight into God's meaning I have found the most knowledgeable to be the Jewish people. Christian take too litterally the stories of Genesis, this is a parable, a code if you would. On a side note, this jack ass hasn't done much research either, there have been severl archaeological finds, which confirm much of Biblical accounts. Also did I read someone say "valid Points", anyone can hit valid points, even when they are wrong. The best way to hide a lie is by surrrounding it with a lot of truth. This is the best I could do I'm high, give me a break.


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## We TaRdED (Jun 19, 2008)

BudLuvr said:


> For one thing ,I think Jesus had bigger things to worry about than to tell the people of the time about the damn sun and the stars. For another, that is a myth about people assuming the world was flat in those days, look it up on the History Channel web site. Viruses and bacteria?!!! Are you fucking kidding me? You probably have no idea how they work yourself, and you grew up in these times. It would have been an awful waste for Jesus to be a damn college professor rather than the Savior of the human race. Those people had no need to understand those things, Jesus was worried more about there souls than if they got herpes.
> The wonderful mathematical figures the idiot came up with? We are not talking about Bill Gates making decisions that fast or even a super computer, we are talking about the Supreme Being. the One who created everything. His ability to know everything is just too much for the small human brain to comprehend, It is impossible to measure the ability of something infinite. I'll agree with the autor on one point, Christians do misinterpret the OLD TESTEMENT. This was a series of books that included parables mixed in with a little fact, and some important information if it is interpreted correctly. For accurate interpretation and insight into God's meaning I have found the most knowledgeable to be the Jewish people. Christian take too litterally the stories of Genesis, this is a parable, a code if you would. On a side note, this jack ass hasn't done much research either, there have been severl archaeological finds, which confirm much of Biblical accounts. Also did I read someone say "valid Points", anyone can hit valid points, even when they are wrong. The best way to hide a lie is by surrrounding it with a lot of truth.* This is the best I could do I'm high, give me a break.*


Welcome to RIU! 

Its cool man, your entitled to your beliefs. We are not here to tell you what you should or should not believe in, but rather, we are here to show you an alternative view than what your parents taught you.

If believing in religion makes you happy than don't stop doing what your doing. But if you question religion because you have some qualms about it than we are here to help you with your effulgence.

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## tckfui (Jun 20, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> Welcome to RIU!
> 
> Its cool man, your entitled to your beliefs. We are not here to tell you what you should or should not believe in, but rather, we are here to show you an alternative view than what your parents taught you.
> 
> ...



speak for yourself!!!!
my soul purpose for being on this site is, to tell people what they should and shouldn't believe in!!!!!!!!!!


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## We TaRdED (Jun 22, 2008)

tckfui said:


> speak for yourself!!!!
> my soul purpose for being on this site is, to tell people what they should and shouldn't believe in!!!!!!!!!!


What kind of bud is that in your Avatar tckfui? Was it your stuff? I don't recall ever seeing a plant with leafs so dark and purple like that. I've seen plants with Dark purple buds, but not fan leafs like that.

Thanks

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## Reprogrammed (Jun 22, 2008)

Read it. Raises a couple points.


At the same time, though, I'm still stuck on how little they know about Christianity. 


And Christ it was funny when he went on a little mini-rant about how crunched for time God must be during a natural disaster! Does he really think Christians believe God operates by earthly physics and time? Bahahaha!

I would make some metaphor about how long Christians and Atheists have been flinging shit at each other, saying everything they can to try and convert people.

Ay yi yi, sometimes I just want to move to move to Antarctica.


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## Microdizzey (Jun 25, 2008)

i don't follow religions but i have read revelations and other scriptures regarding the end times and i have to say... it's damn interesting to see prophecies unfold in our generation.


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## tckfui (Jun 25, 2008)

ah come on guy!!! if you read revaluations you should know how utterly ridiculousness it is, ITS FUCKING INSANE!!!!!!!!!! 
its like some harry potter type shit  
but yea, through enough crazy ass ideas out there a bunch are bound to be true, but last I checked there have yet to be any demons comming from giant crevases in the world, or giant seven headed dragons with people heads that each represent some crazy thing, geeze the devil is a weird guy if he said hey I should make a weird dragon person, and have it be all symbolic like, it'll be nuts. 
why would God and the devil come together for such a far fetched catastrophy, and why would the devil play into his roll, I dont really rememeber revalations much, I was allways high while reading the bible, but I rememeber some of it  and I rememeber having quite a hoot over revelations. 

however, this is a pretty interesting video that talks about why the pope is likly to be the anti christ acording to revalations. 
cant find the link now, but I'll find it within the hour and edit it here.


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## Microdizzey (Jun 26, 2008)

remember this book was written a very long time ago. 
John was seeing technology that was far beyond his time... hell i'm sure it was difficult to describe.

it's all about translating. like a pale white horse could be symbolism for something else. something that exists today that John, from thousands of years ago, would see as a "pale horse".


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## tckfui (Jun 26, 2008)

umm... a lama?


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## undertheice (Jun 26, 2008)

Microdizzey said:


> remember this book was written a very long time ago.
> John was seeing technology that was far beyond his time... hell i'm sure it was difficult to describe.
> 
> it's all about translating. like a pale white horse could be symbolism for something else. something that exists today that John, from thousands of years ago, would see as a "pale horse".


once you start considering any parts of the bible as metaphor, where do you stop? is satan merely a metaphor for man's baser instincts and god merely a metaphor for nature at work? once you start deciding which parts of any sacred text to take at face value and which to consider allegory, religion becomes morality by convenience and god's laws to be an incomplete list of suggestions. the spirituality and divinity of the belief becomes suspect and it becomes merely another philosophy.


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## trishmybiscuits (Jun 26, 2008)

BudLuvr said:


> For one thing ,I think Jesus had bigger things to worry about than to tell the people of the time about the damn sun and the stars. For another, that is a myth about people assuming the world was flat in those days, look it up on the History Channel web site. Viruses and bacteria?!!! Are you fucking kidding me? You probably have no idea how they work yourself, and you grew up in these times. It would have been an awful waste for Jesus to be a damn college professor rather than the Savior of the human race. Those people had no need to understand those things, Jesus was worried more about there souls than if they got herpes.
> The wonderful mathematical figures the idiot came up with? We are not talking about Bill Gates making decisions that fast or even a super computer, we are talking about the Supreme Being. the One who created everything. His ability to know everything is just too much for the small human brain to comprehend, It is impossible to measure the ability of something infinite. This is the best I could do I'm high, give me a break.


Everything you say here is nothing but speculation. The points raised in the essay, the ones you're trying to dispute are facts, undisputable facts. You're trying to use speculation to invalidate facts. Pity.

And as far as the "This is the best I could do I'm high," you might want to try again. This attempt was pretty bad. Pathetic even.


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## PoseidonsNet (Jun 27, 2008)

> giant seven headed dragons


revelations very clearly says that that represents a nation of people. dufus.
in about 3 places at least.
can u guys actually read?

or do u just sprout shit that other people tell u?

the bible has 200x the number of characters as any other book
you would have to read it 200x in order to understand it 
on the same level as an ordinary book

its damn silly to discuss a book u have never even read from front to end.


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## trishmybiscuits (Jun 29, 2008)

PoseidonsNet said:


> its damn silly to discuss a book u have never even read from front to end.


The bible has no credibility and shouldn't be taken seriously.


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## PoseidonsNet (Jun 29, 2008)

> The bible has no credibility and shouldn't be taken seriously.


in order to say so u must have read it properly
which u have not,

even if u only appreciate it as literature, like the illiad or the oddysey, that is so.

the sheer number of stories streatching such a vast time, scribed by so many people, more than any other book by many times....

printed more than any other book by many times

in more languages than....


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## nitrobud (Jun 30, 2008)

> printed more than any other book by many times
> 
> in more languages than....


Thus making it more prone to error and for translators/editors/individuals to inject their own opinion over time.

That's why there isn't THE bible.. there are BIBLES. At this point in time, there are many versions of the SAME book.

So apparently even the translators didn't read it enough.

But that was a pretty lame attack. If you have a point to make, make it.
Don't drop down to petty insults like, "you read it wrong".


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## Pookiedough (Jul 1, 2008)

I don't see how anyone who has ever read the bible can take it seriously,bunch of contradicting,warped,big brother tripe but it would make for a helluva horror movie.


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## B.. (Jul 1, 2008)

nice article.. i wonder how many christians have trashed this by now?


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## Microdizzey (Jul 1, 2008)

out of all the crazy beliefs out there, Christianity is the one that is shit-talked about the most. why?

is it because they believe in God or they have bogus claims about God?


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## trishmybiscuits (Jul 2, 2008)

Microdizzey said:


> out of all the crazy beliefs out there, Christianity is the one that is shit-talked about the most. why?
> 
> is it because they believe in God or they have bogus claims about God?


I'll give you my opinion, for what it's worth.

I believe it's because the Christians can't mind their own business. They want their ideology to dominate every aspect of life, at least in the United States anyway. I don't think it's because of what they actually believe even though what they actually believe is sheer myth and sheer fantasy. I believe it's because they want to ram it down everyone else's throat. That's why a lot up people are starting to rise up against it.


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## bobharvey (Jul 3, 2008)

Or more than likely because "Christians" don't understand the true meaning or the context of any of Christ's teachings. American Christianity for the most part is a joke. The Catholic Church has a long history of pure evil in the name of God. Christ predicted that his followers would change his teachings. There is a lot of proof that the Gospel of Thomas is independent of early Christian texts. Which means it was written during or maybe even before some of the Gospels. Of course Mainstream Christianity says this text isn't "inspired." Probably because in it Jesus ridicules the idea that the Kingdom of God is in the Sky somewhere.


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## trishmybiscuits (Jul 5, 2008)

Pookiedough said:


> I don't see how anyone who has ever read the bible can take it seriously,bunch of contradicting,warped,big brother tripe but it would make for a helluva horror movie.


Which makes it all the more amazing that so many people do. That's what boggles my mind about Christianity. And that is, that so many people are duped by it.


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## Yondaime (Jul 5, 2008)

You all make scientific observations supposedly accepted as scientific proof yet you cite no references, you contradict yourselves and have no degrees in either theology nor any field of science and yet think you are able to comprehend and claim to have read and understood a complex and widely studied ancient book such as the bible and although you have no interest in it or its religion?

It takes years of studying to comprehend the bible from a minister's stand point, and yet all of you who claim to have no affiliation with Christianity say that you have read and understood it?

When will you all stop deceiving yourselves, modern atheists are the true enemies of reason.


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## natrone23 (Jul 5, 2008)

Oh so you have to be a theologian to understand a a collection of myths passed down from a bunch illiterate desert dwellers from 2000 years ago...........these are the same people who thought lighting was gods anger...................wonder why there no mention of Native Americans, Australia, or china in the bible I wonder why, did god forget about them.......hmmm no mention about dinosaurs either, did Adam and eve ride dinosaurs.........wait let me guess Noah couldn't fit them on his boat......................thor, mythras, all the greek gods, roman gods, native american gods, aboriginal gods, Aztec Gods, Inca Gods, hinduism, shintoism, Islam,.....I could go on and on....... let me guess, those are man made religions..........but *your* religion is the true one............................._When you realize why you don't believe in those gods than you will realize why I don't believe in your god_.............................., first there was polytheism, than came monotheism.........mankind is getting closer to the truth that there is no god (or gods) and there never was............We are all Atheists when it comes to Thor, Posidon but I just take it one god further


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## mexiblunt (Jul 7, 2008)

Man made God so God could make Man. Then he made the devil so he could understand.


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## DRtothE (Jul 7, 2008)

it's funny how they'll hate on how admiment Christians are about something they believe saved their lives forever.

btw, becoming the "debunker" is simpling putting yourself in the polar opposite position as people who believe in a Bible. good luck


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## Microdizzey (Jul 7, 2008)

yea i've seen too much hate to these people and it's really annoying.


i definitely think American Christianity is a load of bullshit. it's totally out of context and wrong.


when Jesus was around, he spoke about loving your neighbors and being happy and all that good stuff. the basic good things in life we humans need to live peacefully. of course he spoke about God too, but he never said God was a being or anything. for all we know, God could just be energy or spirit or light in the universe. and Jesus was telling us that God is here and we can speak to him, because he is all around us. and we must understand that he is the reason for our existence.


so if you think about it that way, Christians are worshiping energy or light or a great spirit, not a giant man in the sky with a huge white beard.








also, when i heard about Nibiru (Planet X) it struck a lot of interest in me about the bible. it's written somewhere in there that angels that were once on heaven came to Earth, as well as Lucifer being thrown down to Earth from heaven.

well... what if this planet is what they considered "heaven" and it's inhabited by beings that are considered angels? it would explain how at one point in time, when Nibiru was near Earth, beings came from the planet to Earth and spoke to humans.


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## Yondaime (Jul 7, 2008)

Natrone23, thank you for proving my point.


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## undertheice (Jul 7, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> ....modern atheists are the true enemies of reason.


religion, either the belief in or the denial of, is completely outside the realm of logic. such absolutes can never be proved, disproved or even clearly defined. any atheist that claims he became such through reason is deluding himself, just as any believer who attempts to claim definitive proof of his faith is equally a fool. i'll admit it, my denial of religion was based more on the need to make some decision than on any great truths. you can't sit on the fence forever if you wish to take command of your own destiny.


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## jsknow (Jul 7, 2008)

I spent 4 yrs in a Christian school. Bible was a required subject. I had a few problems with what I was being taught, so I decided to read the Book for myself. I thought there must be mistakes in it, after all it was written 2-6 thousand years ago by people that werent suppose to know as much as modern man. After all the time that had passed surely the mistakes would be easy to spot. WC Fields, a dedicated man of the world (heavy drinker and womanizer) once got caught reading the Bible, by a friend. His friend asked "What are you doing?", WC replied, "looking for loopholes". That's exactly what I was doing but I ended up believing the Bible is the inspired word of God. No natural man could have known many of the facts mentioned in the Book that have been proven over time. Also, ALL of the prophecies it contains have either happened or are happening. It's been said that today's headlines were first printed thousands of years ago in the back of the Book. Israel and the Jews are one proof. Many nations have done their best to destroy Israel but the Bible predicted that after they were scattered throughout the world they would regain the land God promised them. After a couple thousand years they got their land back and their language. Their the only nation in history to do that and I dont know of any other nation that has been hated and warred against like Israel but that's just one small example. If you really want proof do the math on what the odds are of any one man fulfilling ALL the prophecies about the Messiah, the odds are astronomical but Jesus fulfilled most while He was on earth and I believe He will return and fulfill the rest just like the Bible says. Some of the prophecies about the Messiah were written thousands of years before Jesus was born. By the way, He never wrote a book, He never commanded an army, He wasnt rich, He didnt do any of the things we generally consider reason for fame, yet he had more of an impact on this earth than any other man that ever lived. We mark time literally by his life BC/AD. My advice is read the Bible for yourself, open your heart, get by yourself, ask God to teach you what He wants you to know and NEVER stop taking time to do that for the rest of your life. You don't read the Bible, the Bible reads you. You'll learn things you never knew about yourself and a lot more. I still don't agree with what a lot of people preach and claim to know but I believe in God and the Bible. One of the preachers I heard back in school said, "I believe in the Bible and God with all my heart but if I lived a long long life then died and there was no God, I could not have lived a better life than living as a Christian". According to the Bible God gives us free will, were free to accept God or reject Him. It also describes hell as a place separated from God. I prefer to accept Him but the Bible also says it is not my job to force God or Christ on anyone, Im just here to plant a few seeds. The ones that fall on good ground (in good hearts) will grow. Right is Right and wrong is wrong and you will reap what you sew. All that being said, here are a few of my favorite Bible verses: 

Gn:1:29: And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. Ps:104:14: He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; Ps:104:15: And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart. Eze:34:29: And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more. Mt:15:10: And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: Mt:15:11: Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. Mk:7:21: For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Mk:7:22: Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: Mk:7:23: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. 

So now you can tell the world you know of at least one Christian that believes cannabis is one of his God given rights. Its a good idea to keep in mind the knowledge of the day at the time the Book was written and that its been translated from several different languages before English but theres no doubt in my mind that if you seek God you will find Him through the words in the Bible. Theres a few more verses and a lot of drug policy reform information on this website:
Internet explorer: Just Say Know to The Drug War 
Other browsers: http://jsknow.angelfire.com/index.html


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## natrone23 (Jul 8, 2008)

undertheice said:


> religion, either the belief in or the denial of, is completely outside the realm of logic. such absolutes can never be proved, disproved or even clearly defined. any atheist that claims he became such through reason is deluding himself, just as any believer who attempts to claim definitive proof of his faith is equally a fool. i'll admit it, my denial of religion was based more on the need to make some decision than on any great truths. you can't sit on the fence forever if you wish to take command of your own destiny.


The same could be said about fairies, nobody can prove that fairies do not exist, but are we agnostic to the existence of fairies?


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## natrone23 (Jul 8, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> Natrone23, thank you for proving my point.


lol yes I did prove a point that your religion is just another in a long string of man made religions


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## babylonburn (Jul 8, 2008)

religion is science science is the world thru a liars point of view....


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## trishmybiscuits (Jul 9, 2008)

Yondaime said:


> You all make scientific observations supposedly accepted as scientific proof yet you cite no references, you contradict yourselves and have no degrees in either theology nor any field of science and yet think you are able to comprehend and claim to have read and understood a complex and widely studied ancient book such as the bible and although you have no interest in it or its religion?
> 
> It takes years of studying to comprehend the bible from a minister's stand point, and yet all of you who claim to have no affiliation with Christianity say that you have read and understood it?
> 
> When will you all stop deceiving yourselves, modern atheists are the true enemies of reason.


It doesn't take a degree of any kind to debunk Christianity, just common sense. If the Christian god and his son were who the Christiasn say they were, there would be certain common sense things that people should expect to see when looking back in time. And those things just simply aren't there. No degree necessary.


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## jsknow (Jul 14, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> It doesn't take a degree of any kind to debunk Christianity, just common sense. If the Christian god and his son were who the Christiasn say they were, there would be certain common sense things that people should expect to see when looking back in time. And those things just simply aren't there. No degree necessary.


 
Those things are there but you have to be able to understand them and the only way you can do that is by opening your spirit and learning enough to be able to understand. I noted several examples in my first post.


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## nitrobud (Jul 14, 2008)

> So now you can tell the world you know of at least one Christian that believes cannabis is one of his God given rights.


The bible is used to justify everything from Murder to Rape... So its expected at least someone would use it to justify their marijuana usage.


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## WWgrower (Jul 14, 2008)

Well at least JESUS


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## WWgrower (Jul 14, 2008)

OOps, What I was going to say was at least Jesus taught us that human sacrifice is a good thing and great thing happen when you do it!


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## Microdizzey (Jul 15, 2008)

if he taught that, all Christ followers would commit suicide at some point in their lives. and obviously that isn't happening.

Jesus sacrificed himself to save humans from their sins. he felt the pain in everybody and could not bare it, he did not want anybody to endure it.


so, whether Jesus was right or wrong, he was trying to help you. he wanted the best for us, so he did what he thought was best. 

you don't have to believe in Christianity, but you should at least be respectful to this man who gave his life in an attempt to save the people.


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## trishmybiscuits (Jul 17, 2008)

jsknow said:


> Those things are there but you have to be able to understand them and the only way you can do that is by opening your spirit and learning enough to be able to understand. I noted several examples in my first post.


I did read your first post. First, the bible is clearly incorrect about many of the things it says. For instance, take the way it says the earth was formed. It says God created the earth. However, all one need do is point a telescope at the sky at night and they can see how stars and planets are formed. The process happens literally right before our eyes. And if the bible is wrong on that count, the entire rest of it has no credibility.

People can't get it through their heads that the bible was just conjoured up by humans with an imagination. Humans who couldn't understand anything about the natural world so they attributed everything to a supreme being.


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## Microdizzey (Jul 17, 2008)

_In the beginning God created *the heavens AND the earth*. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters._ - Genesis 1:1

it says God created the heavens (beyond Earth) and Earth.

the world was dark and empty before God made it inhabitable. meaning Earth was probably similar to the other planets one point in time, nothing suitable for lifeforms.


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## EarthlyPassions (Jul 18, 2008)

I really don't think that genesis was meant to be taken literally in the sense that everything written happen exactly that way.
The way I explain the fallibilities in the Bible was that in the end the Bible was written by men, imperfect men. No matter how perfect the message, inspiration, or spirit was in making the chapters within, once it's been filtered through human capabilities and understanding, it's going to be flawed. 
Another thing a lot of people don't think about, (mostly because they've never really read the bible with the intent to understand things for themselves), is that a lot of bible consists of letters that were written between people. Jewish leaders discussing their tribal laws and such. 
Sometimes people are just talking about how they struggle with being a Christian, or how it's changed their life for the better (or made things harder.) So these aren't divinely inspired moments that God meant us to draw moral codes from, it's just normal people talking to each other. These conversations are sure to be littered with mistakes and flaws, just like letters and e-mails today.


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## jsknow (Jul 21, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> I did read your first post. First, the bible is clearly incorrect about many of the things it says. For instance, take the way it says the earth was formed. It says God created the earth. However, all one need do is point a telescope at the sky at night and they can see how stars and planets are formed. The process happens literally right before our eyes. And if the bible is wrong on that count, the entire rest of it has no credibility.
> 
> People can't get it through their heads that the bible was just conjoured up by humans with an imagination. Humans who couldn't understand anything about the natural world so they attributed everything to a supreme being.


If that's your opinion, you're welcome to it. The fact that the universe is expanding and new planets ect. are being formed and some are ending doesn't come close to contradicting the Bible. The Bible never said any of those things wouldn't happen. 

Imo what some people can't get through their head is that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, there are no mistakes. There are misunderstandings and mis-translations but there are no mistakes. No one has been able to prove a single mistake or even a contradiction and we're talking about scriptures that were written over several thousand years by many different human writers... As Desi would say, splain that Lucy? 

The Bible also says to the "world" (unbelievers) the Word of God would seem foolish. I think your post has proven that to be true. You seem to have your mind made up and there is none so blind as him who will not see but I'll make a deal with you, if you'll just try to open your heart and read your Bible, I'll do my best to explain the parts you believe prove it isn't true. I don't claim to have all the answers, I don't think anyone but God completely understands the entire Bible but I've read the Bible at least 25 times and I'm in touch with some people that are true bible scholars, so if I don't know the answer I probably can find someone that has the answer. Do we have a deal?


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## JohnnyPotSeed1969 (Jul 21, 2008)

wow, that original rant was full of easily refutable logical fallacies which simply made the writer look uneducated.


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## AquafinaOrbit (Jul 21, 2008)

Dang, this article just blew my beliefs out the window. To be serious though this is very far from debunking anything. I honestly find it interesting that a book written by man as long as the bible has as few flaws as it does.


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## trishmybiscuits (Jul 24, 2008)

JohnnyPotSeed1969 said:


> wow, that original rant was full of easily refutable logical fallacies which simply made the writer look uneducated.


 
If you're refering to the essay this thread is based on, you really need to be careful what you say. That essay is clearly nothing but a collection of undisputable facts. If you can't tell the difference between fact and fallacy, it throws into question the credibility of anything you say. You should really be a wee bit more careful how you choose your words.


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## trishmybiscuits (Jul 24, 2008)

WWgrower said:


> OOps, What I was going to say was at least Jesus taught us that human sacrifice is a good thing and great thing happen when you do it!


 
Jesus didn't even have the sense to tell his followers to go teach his message to the thousands of people living on the other side of the planet. Imagine that! I guess he just figured he'd hop on a camel and ride over there and tell 'em in person, huh?


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## EarthlyPassions (Jul 24, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> Jesus didn't even have the sense to tell his followers to go teach his message to the thousands of people living on the other side of the planet. Imagine that! I guess he just figured he'd hop on a camel and ride over there and tell 'em in person, huh?


Wut? I clearly remember "go and be a fisher of men" being one of his polite requests to his followers. Hence the little fish symbol?


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## Prophecy (Jul 25, 2008)

*Jesus Christ is right. I was told this in a dream to repeat; I suppose it was told to me by an angel. The link below is a blog of mine that is a psycho-spiritual approach to today's fundamental challenges, such as understanding God and faith, and self and other things that are relative.*

*I am a responsible advocate of marijuana use. Obviously, I think that the smoking of it has the worse long term effects; but I think a balance and nutritious pH balance of the physiological system is a healthy prevention and intervention thereof any smoking side effects if done at its best.*

*I think that mind maturity is also important. I know that many new users are relatively young and likely naive to the mental effects of it and how it can affect our daily lives; this to me is why being realistic and seeking greater Truths are important. I believe that sobriety is living in the Truth, because the Truth will eventually tell your heart and conscience when its too much, time to stop or not to do so. Maturity is established when a person stand in what they believe in even when its not popular. The Truth shall set you free*

*Priorities are still important in everything you do. We must continue to serve the Lord God Most High if no one else. All good Truth leads through Jesus Christ.*

*I apologize to those of you who have been traumatize by some person using the word of God to their personal gains, this is called debauchery and God ultimately will penalize those who do it. *

*In all your getting get understanding; never let a person come between you and your personal relationship/courting of God and your true destiny.*

*The Virtuous Intelligence Theory *


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## Microdizzey (Jul 25, 2008)

awesome post man. i totally agree with this.

most importantly, it's not about religions. people should have a personal relationship with God. they don't need to announce their beliefs to anybody or join groups of other believers if they don't want to. Jesus did say to tell people about God and spread the word, but i think it's too late now. the world already knows about God, it's up to the individual person to make a decision before the Return of Christ.

if you aren't prepared to see it, you will not be able to comprehend it. thus you will be left behind.

sad thing is, people are way too overwhelmed in their pitiful lives. and so dumbed down that they can't accept something that they can't see. most people will not understand or care about this because money/sex/drugs/fame/material possessions are more important.


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## trishmybiscuits (Jul 26, 2008)

EarthlyPassions said:


> Wut? I clearly remember "go and be a fisher of men" being one of his polite requests to his followers. Hence the little fish symbol?


Wow. You equate that with specifically telling his followers to reach the thosands of people living on the other side of the planet?


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## EarthlyPassions (Jul 27, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> Wow. You equate that with specifically telling his followers to reach the thosands of people living on the other side of the planet?


Word travels. No one can argue that Christianity is pretty pervasive today, right?


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## mexiblunt (Jul 27, 2008)

But there was no" otherside" of the planet then? The earth was flat remember. I guess the fishermen thought they would fall of the earth before they could reach the aztecs,north american natives etc.


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## jsknow (Jul 27, 2008)

If anyone wants to look up these verses, they're in the Book of Mark, Chapter 16: KJV

M'r:16:1: And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
M'r:16:2: And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
M'r:16:3: And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
M'r:16:4: And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
M'r:16:5: And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
M'r:16:6: And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
M'r:16:7: But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
M'r:16:8: And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.
M'r:16:9: Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
M'r:16:10: And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
M'r:16:11: And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
M'r:16:12: After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
M'r:16:13: And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
M'r:16:14: Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
*M'r:16:15: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.*
*M'r:16:16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.*


Another interesting point that's been raised is that in the time of Jesus, everyone still believed the world was flat; however you will never find a single verse in the Bible that says the world is flat. An abundance of information is in the Bible that's contrary to popular belief, even popular beliefs held today but if you're going to be able to understand and even see those facts, you have to open your heart. The Bible tells us that too. Faith is one of the primary principals of the Bible and Christianity.

Just to clear up another comment I read by someone that said the Bible was written by a man. The Bible was written by several different men and over a time period of about 2-7 thousand years, which makes it even more remarkable that there has never been a single fact contained in the Bible debunked.



*


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## trishmybiscuits (Jul 29, 2008)

jsknow said:


> *M'r:16:15: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.*
> 
> which makes it even more remarkable that there has never been a single fact contained in the Bible debunked.*


 
This proves that Jesus wasn't who the Christians say he was. "Go ye into all the world" just pertains to what people knew about the world at the time. It indicates a knowledge that didn't transcend that of the ordinary person.

And secondly, the bible has no credibility whatsoever!


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## EarthlyPassions (Jul 29, 2008)

jsknow said:


> The Bible was written by several different men and over a time period of about 2-7 thousand years, which makes it even more remarkable that there has never been a single fact contained in the Bible debunked.


That's an excellent point. It WAS written by a lot of people over a long period of time. And I think that excuses any fallibilities that could be found. We are only human after all.


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## trishmybiscuits (Jul 30, 2008)

EarthlyPassions said:


> That's an excellent point. It WAS written by a lot of people over a long period of time. And I think that excuses any fallibilities that could be found. We are only human after all.


 
But it doesn't excuse any fallibilities. Instead, it's the reason why the bible doesn't have any credibility.


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## Microdizzey (Jul 30, 2008)

how about no books have any credibility because they are all written by imperfect humans.

now everybody's happy.


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## nitrobud (Jul 31, 2008)

jsknow said:


> there has never been a single fact contained in the Bible debunked.


What?!

1 Kings 7:23 "He made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."

_Circumference = Pi() x Diameter, which means the line would have to have been over 31 cubits. In order for this to be rounding, it would have had to overstate the amount to ensure that the line did "compass it round about."

_Lev 11:20-21: "All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you." _

Fowl do not go upon all four._

Lev 11:6: "And the hare, because he cheweth the cud..." _

Hare do not chew the cud._

Deut 14:7: " "...as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof." 

_For the hare this is wrong on both counts: Hare don&#8217;t chew the cud and they do divide the "hoof."_

Jonah 1:17 says, "...Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights" Matt 12:40 says "...Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly..." _

whales and fish are not related_

Matt 13:31-32: " "the kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed which&#8230;is the least of all seeds, but when it is grown is the greatest among herbs and becometh a tree." _

There are 2 significant errors here: first, there are many smaller seeds, like the orchid seed; and second, mustard plants don't grow into trees._

Matt 4:8: " Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them." _

Unless the world is flat, altitude simply will not help you see all the kingdoms of the earth._

These are the birds you are to detest and not eat because they are detestable: the eagle, ... any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat (Leviticus 11:13-19) 
You may eat any clean bird. But these you may not eat: the eagle, ... any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat. (Deuteronomy 14:11-17) 



_A bat is not a bird. Note that this isn't just an arbitrary classification that the Western and European world has created. A bat is a bird as much as a Cocker Spaniel is a cat. _



All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: ... Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket, or grasshopper. (Leviticus 11:20-22) 


_ Insects, as part of their definition, have six legs. (Spiders are arachnids, not insects.) _
​... The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (Psalms 93:1) 
... The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (1 Chronicles 16:30) 
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (Psalms 104:5) 
Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel: "O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon. (Joshua 10:12) ​ _Note that the first reference to "world" may mean "the way things are", and that in the last reference "earth" may mean "land". In the context the writer discusses clouds, winds, waters, and mountains, which seem to support this view. These passages were used by the Church to convict Galileo of heresy. 
_





... Just a few to get you started. Those are factual errors and not just the millions of contradictions that are also there.


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## nitrobud (Jul 31, 2008)

jsknow said:


> Another interesting point that's been raised is that in the time of Jesus, everyone still believed the world was flat; however you will never find a single verse in the Bible that says the world is flat. An abundance of information is in the Bible that's contrary to popular belief, even popular beliefs held today but if you're going to be able to understand and even see those facts, you have to open your heart. The Bible tells us that too. Faith is one of the primary principals of the Bible and Christianity.


... he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth. (Isaiah 11:12) 



After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, ... (Revelation 7:1) 



Oh Lord, ... to you the nations will come from the ends of the earth... (Jeremiah 16:19) 



... and there before me stood a tree in the middle of the land. Its height was enormous. The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth. (Daniel 4:10-11)






Of course these can be explained away by suggesting it is just saying it is an expression, but it still imply a flat area to have corners. Thus, correct or not, I still found passages saying the earth is flat. SO I WIN!!!  Just kidding 
​


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## trishmybiscuits (Aug 1, 2008)

nitrobud said:


> What?!
> 
> 1 Kings 7:23 "He made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
> 
> ...


 
This is great stuff!


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## Prophecy (Aug 2, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> This is great stuff!


*****************************************************



I think it borderline insanity. I think it is from a perspective of self righteousness; and personally, I question your facts. It sounds like you have manipulated the wording to fit your self righteousness. 

And lastly, because the Bible tells "not to quarrel over things you know" I believe you are critiquing from the wrong eye; instead of the natural eye; I suggest you look through your minds/spiritual eye. This eye has to be developed by virtue through Virtue.

I definitely see science at its best and math, the constellations and all will / are consistent with the Spiritual things of God, so if you really want to use them you have to be responsible and accountable in the Truth of them according to (super)nature, not according to self righteousness.


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## 40acres (Aug 2, 2008)

nitrobud said:


> ... he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth. (Isaiah 11:12)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Where i come from the earth is flat for as far as you can see.It is that way for hundreds of miles in any direction. The earth than is flat from my perspective. 
How many times has that been translated?

4 corners no way implies flatness.


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## jsknow (Aug 4, 2008)

I have the answers to a lot of the Bible references that have been quoted but not all of them. I'll be posting, or having more knowledgeable people than myself posting answers as soon as I can. Be patient, I work about 70 hours a week. 

I'm very glad to see the interest in the truth that has been posted here! I assure you every single item will be answered to the best of my ability!

One thing you have to keep in mind about the Bible is that it was translated into English from Hebrew and Greek. There are many mis-translations. For instance I heard recently that the verse in the KJV where Jesus said "In my Father's house are many mansions" actually in the original Greek said "in my Father's house are many dwelling places". 

Please don't overload me by raising more questions until I can get the ones already asked answered, but keep researching the Bible and we'll get all your questions answered.

Thanks for the great questions and the quality of your posts! You may not believe this right now but I can feel God working here. I believe this forum is going to do a lot of good. Like I said in one of my earlier posts, when I started reading the Bible, I was out to find mistakes too!


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## Microdizzey (Aug 4, 2008)

jsknow said:


> I have the answers to a lot of the Bible references that have been quoted but not all of them. I'll be posting, or having more knowledgeable people than myself posting answers as soon as I can. Be patient, I work about 70 hours a week.
> 
> I'm very glad to see the interest in the truth that has been posted here! I assure you every single item will be answered to the best of my ability!
> 
> ...


I like that quote. where ever heaven may be, God and our celestial friends are preparing their land for us!


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## trishmybiscuits (Aug 6, 2008)

40acres said:


> Where i come from the earth is flat for as far as you can see.It is that way for hundreds of miles in any direction. The earth than is flat from my perspective.
> How many times has that been translated?
> 
> 4 corners no way implies flatness.


If Jesus was who the Christians say he was, he not only would've known the exact shape of the earth, he would've known the whereabouts of all the continents and their inhabitants as well. Remember, it was his father who supposedly created the earth. Jesus was supposed to be one in the same with his father. To say he wouldn't have known that would be tantamount to the being who created the earth not knowing what in the hell it was he created.


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## Microdizzey (Aug 6, 2008)

he's the son of God. When he lived on Earth, he didn't know everything, he just knew what was right and good. He still felt every human emotion, felt hunger and pain, he was human with some supernatural abilities.

maybe not even supernatural. i think we humans have the ability to heal each other, if done a certain way.


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## imtylerdammit (Aug 6, 2008)

Religion is a BELIEF! You either believe in something or you believe in nothing. How about we all just agree that something bigger then ourselves made everything. Whether it be science-related or "God" related. Senseless banter is useless and only brings about feelings of misanthropy. 

EVERYBODY FUCKING LOVE EVERYBODY!


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## trishmybiscuits (Aug 10, 2008)

imtylerdammit said:


> Religion is a BELIEF! You either believe in something or you believe in nothing. How about we all just agree that something bigger then ourselves made everything. Whether it be science-related or "God" related. Senseless banter is useless and only brings about feelings of misanthropy.
> 
> EVERYBODY FUCKING LOVE EVERYBODY!


First, we don't know what you're saying to be fact. You're just speculating.

Second, what's at issue here are the specific claims that the Christians make about their god and his son. Those claims are completely, totally, and extremely debunkable.


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## imtylerdammit (Aug 10, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> First, we don't know what you're saying to be fact. You're just speculating.
> 
> Second, what's at issue here are the specific claims that the Christians make about their god and his son. Those claims are completely, totally, and extremely debunkable.



Im agnostic so believe what ya want, unless its Christianity...hail Satan


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## Microdizzey (Aug 10, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> First, we don't know what you're saying to be fact. You're just speculating.
> 
> Second, what's at issue here are the specific claims that the Christians make about their god and his son. *Those claims are completely, totally, and extremely debunkable*.


oh, is that a fact? 

it's all speculation, right? so an argument over this is pointless and won't go anywhere. just remember to respect others' beliefs. disrespect and rudeness only brings bad energy to yourself. 


oh, by the way. these claims that Christians make. do you even know what they are?


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## sarah22 (Aug 10, 2008)

Microdizzey said:


> oh, is that a fact?
> 
> it's all speculation, right? so an argument over this is pointless and won't go anywhere. just remember to respect others' beliefs. disrespect and rudeness only brings bad energy to yourself.
> 
> ...


how about the earth only being 6000 years old? or the whole creation bull...they think that man was made by "god" and then "god" made women from a mans rib bone...please. totally "debunkable". sorry...i just read that last post and wanted to respond...sorry for interrupting the thread...


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## matt+amber4ever (Aug 10, 2008)

i havent read the whole thread so yeah, but on the topic of debunking christianity, its not that hard, but most devout(sp) people wont listen to logic when it comes to it, its not in their beleifs, 

also, 
The Satanic Bible, by Anton S. LeVey, is one hell of a good read if you on the oppisite side of christianity, no its not about devil worship and shit, just kinda a lot of insight on the christian religion, and just teaches to lookout for youself and what matters to you, not having to answer to some "god"


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## Microdizzey (Aug 10, 2008)

it's not all literal. just the general idea. as for Earth being 6000 years old, i don't think it says that anywhere. God created man as he created everything else. and created woman under the same human form with different body parts.

same thing goes for the monsters in the form of many different beasts. they aren't literally mutant creatures, instead they are forms of nations or people.


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## We TaRdED (Aug 10, 2008)

I'm waiting for "God" to show Himself to me.

Where is He when the people of the world need Him? What is the greater good that comes from people suffering? 

How come certain important facts are so conflicting between Christianity and Science?

I believe there IS something that created us, I just don't know exactly who, what, where and/or why.

(BTW, Nice avatar Microdizzey )*

The REVOLUTION has begun!*

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## trishmybiscuits (Aug 13, 2008)

Microdizzey said:


> oh, is that a fact?
> 
> it's all speculation, right?


The statement that I was responding to was in fact nothing but pure speculation.



Microdizzey said:


> so an argument over this is pointless and won't go anywhere. just remember to respect others' beliefs. disrespect and rudeness only brings bad energy to yourself.


If people are going to make wild claims and then try to ram them down other people's throats, they better be able to stand the heat in the kitchen.



Microdizzey said:


> oh, by the way. these claims that Christians make. do you even know what they are?


Anyone who lives in the United States knows what they are!


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## trishmybiscuits (Aug 13, 2008)

sarah22 said:


> how about the earth only being 6000 years old? or the whole creation bull...they think that man was made by "god" and then "god" made women from a mans rib bone...please. totally "debunkable". sorry...i just read that last post and wanted to respond...sorry for interrupting the thread...


You're not interrupting the thread by any stretch. By all means, feel free to chime in whenever you want.


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## Microdizzey (Aug 14, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> If people are going to make wild claims and then try to ram them down other people's throats, they better be able to stand the heat in the kitchen.


nobody is ramming anything down your throat. (i hope)
you're just saying so because most people who hate Christians say that.
i have never once had a Christian come to me and attempt to put there religious beliefs into my brain, and i've met dozens of them. to me they are very nice and happy people.

just be respectful is all i'm saying.


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## thewizardofgalm (Aug 14, 2008)

Wow I'm totally convinced now...


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## pamaris (Aug 14, 2008)

This is my first post, so hi. Been lurking for several weeks. I just wanted to say something about this.

"Christianity" will never be "debunked". Many things can be debunked about what people consider Christianity to be. For example, the right-wing fundamental protestantism that is peculiar and unique to the USA can be debunked as a cultural phenomenon that has very little to do with the words of Jesus. That version of Christianity is what most non-believers want to debunk, but it certainly isn't the only way of believing in Jesus. In fact, it may be the worst way.

What can be proven is that the Bible is not meant to be taken literally 100% of the time. That is just common sense. However, it can't be proven that the main tenant of the Bible- that Jesus Christ is the son of God (and equal to God), is untrue. Just as it can't be proven to be true. It can't be proven that he wasn't resurrected. It is a matter of belief, as has been stated earlier in the thread.

I think it would be useful for people to compare the actual words of Jesus to the various institutions of Christianity. I grew up as a Southern Baptist Bible thumper, since that is the family background I come from. However, Of course when I became an adult I saw the error of my ways, and to be frank I am really put off now by any version of Christianity that preaches hellfire, damnation, fear & guilt; leaving out the most important message of Jesus, which is grace, love & mercy.

It would also help if people would gain a broader understanding of Christianity outside of the world of weird American televangelists with toupees who blow on people. It's a big world out there.

I do admit that there are massive sections of the Bible I must set aside, because they do seem harsh. I can't personally reconcile the Old Testament "mean" God with the New Testament Christ. However, that is where faith comes in. Much of what I don't understand can be put down to the harsh cultural mores at the time. The rest, I'll find out in the great hereafter.

It is perfectly fine if people don't believe what I do. For the record, I don't believe that the earth is 6,000 years old. I do believe in evolution. I don't have a problem with gays. There are millions like me who do think critically about these things, and still believe. It's just that we are not as vocal, brash and annoying as the rest. 

Another thing, faith is not incompatible with science. Read 'The Language of God' by Frances Collins, the guy who mapped the human genome; or 'Beyond the Cosmos' by Hugh Ross, a PHD astrophysicist. Those guys are really smart... lots of Christians do expand their knowledge of God & the universe with new scientific discoveries.

Anyway, when you say "Christianity is debunked", at least be specific about what is being debunked. Christianity is a big word with varied meanings to different people. It's like saying "Love is debunked". Christianity will never be debunked, and it will never be proven that Jesus is not God. It will never be proven that he is either (unless you are a believer, & you accept that it will be proven to all people in the afterlife). It is futile to debate the matter. So... peace.

Not ramming anything down throats here, just clarifying what this particular Christian believes.


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## Prophecy (Aug 14, 2008)

*Solomon Asks for Wisdom*​*1 Kings Chapter 3:1  15*​ 
Solomon made an alliance with Pharaoh King of Egypt and married his daughter. He brought her to the City of David until he finished building his palace and the temple of the Lord, and the wall around Jerusalem. The people, however, were still sacrificing at the high places, because a temple had not yet been built for the Name of the Lord. 

*v.3* Solomon showed his love for the Lord by walking according to the statues of his father David, except that he offered sacrifices and burned incense in the high places.

The king went to Gibeon to offer sacrifices, for that was the most important high place, and Solomon offered a thousand burnt offerings on that altar. 

*v.5* At Gibeon the Lord appeared to Solomon during the night in a dream, and God said, Ask for whatever you want me to give you.

Solomon answered, You have shown great kindness to your servant, my father David, because he was faithful to you and righteous and upright in heart. You have continued this great kindness to him and given him a son to sit on his throne this very day. 

*v.7* Now, O Lord my God, you have made your servant king in place of my father David. But I am only a little child and do not know how to carry out my duties. Your servant is here among the people you have chosen, a great people, too numerous to count or number. 

*v.9* So give your servant a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong. For who is able to govern this great people of yours?
The Lord was pleased that Solomon had asked for this. 

*v.11* So God said to him, Since you have asked for this and not for long life or wealth for yourself, nor have asked for the death of your enemies but for discernment in administering justice, I will do what you have asked. I will give you a wise and discerning heart, so that there will never have been anyone like you, nor will there ever be. 

*v.13* Moreover, I will give you what you have not asked for  both riches and honor  so that in your lifetime you will have no equal among kings. And if you walk in my ways and obey my statues and commands as David your father did, I will give you a long life. 

*v.15* Then Solomon awoke  and he realized it had been a dream.
He returned to Jerusalem, stood before the ark of the Lords covenant and sacrificed burnt offerings and fellowship offerings. Then he gave a feast for all his court.

​*A Wise Ruling*​*1 Kings Chapter 3:16  28*​​Now two prostitutes came before the king and stood before him. 

*v.17* One of them said, My lord, this woman and I live in the same house. I had a baby while she was there with me. The third day after my child was born, this woman also had a baby. We were alone; there was no one in the house but the two of us.

*v.19* During the night this womans son died because she lay on him. She got up in the middle of the night and took my son from my side while I your servant was asleep. She put him by her breast and put her dead son by my breast. 

 *v.21* The next morning, I got up to nurse my son  and he was dead! But when I looked at him closely in the morning light, I saw that it wasnt the son I had borne.
The other woman said, No! The living one is my son; the dead one is yours. But the first one insisted, No! The dead one is yours; the living one is mine. And so they argued before the king.

*v.23* The king said, The one says, My son is alive and your son is dead, while that one says, No! Your son is dead and mine is alive. 
Then the king said bring me a sword, So they brought a sword for the king. 

*v.25* He then gave an order: Cut the living child in two and give half to one and half to the other.
The woman whose son was alive was filled with compassion for her son and said to the king, Please, my lord, give her the living baby! Dont kill him!
But the other said, Neither I nor you shall have him. Cut him in two!

*v.27* Then the king gave his ruling: Give the living baby to the first woman. Do not kill him; she is his mother.
When all Israel heard the verdict the king had given, they held the king in awe, because they saw that he had wisdom from God to administer justice. 


*Solomons Wisdom*​*1 Kings Chapter 4:29  34*​​*v.29* God gave Solomon wisdom and very great insight, and a breadth of understanding as measureless as the sand on the seashore. Solomons wisdom was greater than the wisdom of all the men of the East, and greater then all the wisdom of Egypt. 

*v.31* He was wiser than any other man, including Ethan the Ezrahite  wiser than Heman, Calcol and Darda, the sons of Mahol. And his fame spread to all the surrounding nations. He spoke three thousand proverbs and his songs numbered a thousand and five. 

*v.33* He described plant life, from the cedar of Lebanon to the hyssop that grows out of walls. He also taught about animals and birds, reptiles and fish. Men of all nations came to listen to Solomons wisdom, sent by all the kings of the world, who had heard of his wisdom.
 

*Love God; 
Homage your love ones to God; 
Worship God** thru your loved ones,
Mark Daniels 
[email protected] 
http://virtuousintelligence.spaces.live.com
Consulting that Lasts Eternity : Welcome 
Detroit,Mi*


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## We TaRdED (Aug 14, 2008)

pamaris said:


> This is my first post, so hi. Been lurking for several weeks. I just wanted to say something about this.


Welcome stranger! 

Pretty cool website huh? You can learn to grow Herbs and talk about religion at the same time! HAHA 

You should *check out the political section* of RIU too. Lots of good information in there! 

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## Microdizzey (Aug 14, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> Welcome stranger!
> 
> Pretty cool website huh? You can learn to grow Herbs and talk about religion at the same time! HAHA
> 
> ...


soon to be the most important section on the forums!


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## pamaris (Aug 15, 2008)

We TaRdED said:


> Welcome stranger!
> 
> Pretty cool website huh? You can learn to grow Herbs and talk about religion at the same time! HAHA
> 
> ...


Hi, thanks. I have moved away from the USA but still following the politics. Where I am now (UK) the politics are even more hopeless.


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## EarthlyPassions (Aug 15, 2008)

pamaris said:


> Hi, thanks. I have moved away from the USA but still following the politics. Where I am now (UK) the politics are even more hopeless.


I'd be really interested in reading a thread where you compared the two. I'm genuinely curious to know what it's like in other nations from an American perspective.


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## We TaRdED (Aug 15, 2008)

EarthlyPassions said:


> *I'd be really interested in reading a thread where you compared the two*. I'm genuinely curious to know what it's like in other nations from an American perspective.


Yes. Me too!

I heard that a lot of European people are REALLY dissappointed at the EU, even though the EU has a strong currency.



______________________________________________________

Please watch all of them from beginning to end when you have time. You can really learn a lot from watching these, I know I did. 


At first, I thought these "conspiracy "theories"" were just "conspiracy "theories"" too. I only knew what they told me via school and TV, for the most part until I started doing independent research. 

Watch these! Over ~95% of it is fact and the other ~5% is educated speculation.

Who do you believe? 

The MainStream Media(MSM) and gov't. "The kids need the fluoride in the tap water" YouTube - Notebook: Bottled Water 

Or scientists and doctors? 
YouTube - Professional Perspectives: Fluoride in Tap Water
YouTube - Fluoride Poisoning
YouTube - Dangers of Fluoride

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________

YouTube - If You're an American you should see THIS! for real

YouTube - Alex Jones Predicts 911

YouTube - WTC 7 - Pull It By Larry Silverstein

YouTube - Here's something the government didn't want you to see

YouTube - FOX-5 Reports 9/11/01: WTC-7 Collapsed Before Actual Event

YouTube - 911 WTC Basement Explosions video and photographic proof

YouTube - Dick Cheney Exposed! - Excellent TV Doc
YouTube - US Troops in Iraq talk about Halliburton & KBR

Richard Gage, AIA, Architect - "How The Towers Fell" - Complete 2 Hour Presentation | 911blogger.com

(Zeitgeist)
Zeitgeist - The Movie

(America; Freedom to Fascism)
America: Freedom to Fascism - Director's Authorized Version

(Ring of Power)
Ring of Power - Parts 1-5 - Sprword.com
Ring of Power - Parts 6-10 - Sprword.com


(The Money Masters) The Money Masters - Part 1 of 2
The Money Masters - Part 2 of 2

(Esoteric Agenda)
Esoteric Agenda - Sprword.com

(End Game)
ENDGAME- ALEX JONES - Blueprint for Global Enslavement

(The Great Global Warming Swindle)
The Great Global Warming Swindle - Channel: UKUFO on LiveVideo.com


About WW3....... After you educate yourself with these links you can clearly see that the media and gov't are sleeping together. You should also be aware that the media is trying to make us hate Iran (just like Iraq) by telling us all this BS propaganda. The MainsStream Media is owned by Zionist Jews and hence the wars in the middle east because of difference in religion and corrupt politics. 

I hope people aren't still buying into this garbage....BBC NEWS | Americas | Third tower mystery 'solved'

Anyone else following?

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## jameraquanza (Aug 15, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> This one has been blistering-up the Internet. Christianity has been debunked once and for all:
> 
> The final debunking of Christianity



Wow...got education?


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## pamaris (Aug 16, 2008)

EarthlyPassions said:


> I'd be really interested in reading a thread where you compared the two. I'm genuinely curious to know what it's like in other nations from an American perspective.


OK... I'll have to let it simmer for a little while so that hopefully it will come out intelligently. I have put a bit of thought into it though. I'll be back with my thoughts.


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## trishmybiscuits (Aug 19, 2008)

pamaris said:


> "Christianity" will never be "debunked".


Only when it comes to people who believe only what they want to believe.



pamaris said:


> What can be proven is that the Bible is not meant to be taken literally 100% of the time. .


 
That's funny! The Christians always seem to use its passages as justification to force their views on others, or to wage a war on others - gays, for instance.


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## pamaris (Aug 20, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> That's funny! The Christians always seem to use its passages as justification to force their views on others, or to wage a war on others - gays, for instance.


I know! The point I was trying to make is don't lump all Christians together because of the fundamentalists. If you want to debunk fundamentalist Christianity, go right ahead. However you can't debunk the spiritual validity of the main message of the Bible. So, while certain segments of Christianity are debunkable- the most important part can't be debunked. Nor can it be proven. To each their own.


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## We TaRdED (Aug 20, 2008)

All ENERGY can be *quantified** by MASS. (Although) All mass is quintessentially ENERGY!


{**quantified-*to give quantity to (*something regarded as having only quality*)} 

Just think of how much energy one person has, when E=MC^2..... E= Energy, M= Mass, and C= The Constant speed of light (from the Sun, 299,792,458 metres per second). So if you take approximate value of the speed of light- ~300,000,000 and square it (^2) you get this number- 90,000,000,000,000,000.. Multiply this number by your "M" (Mass) and your E (Energy) will be a HUGE number! (Without doing the math) You are made up of a lot of ENERGY! (The Suns Energy)

Mass = ENERGY = God 

Its the Sun that gives us the ENERGY to be part of God!

Edit- E=MC^2

Mass is equal to ENERGY and I believe ENERGY is God.

The only thing that separates mass(us) from PURE ENERGY(God) is C^2 or ~90,000,000,000,000,000 Meters/second. Maybe something great will come out of this. We shall see. (I believe WE ARE a part of Him! Just not to the fullest!)
*
Edit-* The reciprocal of 90,000,000,000,000,000 is 1.11111111111111111111111... e^ -17 seconds/meter (If your using exact figures, you will get an answer closer to ~1.112650056053618....e^ -17 seconds/meter).. Now its time to find out what this figure means! It seems that if we can somehow multiply ourselves by this figure, *WE* will become *ONE*! 

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

RON PAUL REVOLUTION

~PEACE~


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## trishmybiscuits (Aug 24, 2008)

pamaris said:


> I know! The point I was trying to make is don't lump all Christians together because of the fundamentalists.


Just because all Christians might not be as militant as the fundamentalists doesn't mean that we shouldn't take on the fundamentalists. And frankly, I believe that all Christians think like the fundamentalists, whether they care to admit it or not.



pamaris said:


> However you can't debunk the spiritual validity of the main message of the Bible.


Spiritual validity? How about crutch?



pamaris said:


> while certain segments of Christianity are debunkable- the most important part can't be debunked. Nor can it be proven. To each their own.


There's no single stitch or thread of evidence to support the validity of Christianity other than hearsay and some so-called voices that certain individuals supposedly heard thousands of years ago.


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## Microdizzey (Aug 24, 2008)

do you have a religion Trish? why is it that you hate on Christianity when there are other religions in the world as well? and most of them all have the same belief, with some difference in famous people.

i just find it odd that atheists bring so much hate to one religion when there are many others.


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## MMM (Aug 24, 2008)

I used to try and debate with my Christian friends/family although each time we would talk about religion the result is would always be the same. The last two times was between a girlfriend and a separate time with my mother. My mother did not really discuss anything. All she did was ask me to go to church I just said it was not my thing and tried to leave it at that. Then she kind of turned on me. Anyways I discussed this incident, which was a much longer story, with my girlfriend. She told me to think of it from the perspective of my mother and that she thinks her son is now going to burn in hell for not believing in Heyzues. I can see her perspective and respect it. Not that I do not wish for her to put herself in my shoes and see how pathetic I think it is to believe in myths but I respect her view point nonetheless.

My girlfriend is a Christian that goes to church, was raised in with a VERY Christian background, went to a very prestigious private Christian University and some how wants to be with a very staunch atheist. (Who is a big fan of Richard Dawkins!) She however does not think that I am going to be tortured by the Lord of Terror though because I am a good person. I personally do more things to help people than most of the Christians I know, not that I think I am a better person but it seems like from their perspective it should be the opposite. I am currently in college as a biochem major though I do like to dabble in physics, psychology and mathematics (which is a big reason why I am going to be a couple years late graduating ;p. I will be going into Radiology and I currently work with mentally challenged individuals which is very satisfying and I wouldn&#8217;t mind doing it forever if I could make enough money to have the lifestyle I want to have and the support I want to have for my children.

I do think debate is one of the most amazing things we have in society I tend to stray from debates over religion especially with family of lately because the other party just seems to get upset or very defensive. I tend to just let people be as they will as long as religion is not being used as a detriment to them or any one around them. Religion has helped many people that I care about get through problems and keep them focused in life therefore I just say &#8220;Let it be.&#8221;

I do not know if what I have said will make any sense because I have rambled on for a long time and but take from it what you will. This is the first time I have posted in a non grow forum anywhere as I usually stray from them because of all of the ignorant people who merely call each other fags or stupid idiots because they can not come up with a logical argument of their own. Anyways nothing can beat interacting face to face with another person. Be kind! lol 

Also wow "we tarded" I do believe your name says it all. Let me quote Dave Chappelle "you have smoked your self retarded." Just joking but seriously!!!! 

one too many hits of acid*philosophy 101= well you can see where I am going here
The Bible

(its supposed to be divided by the bible just trying to be clever ha)
also I hate E=MC^2....lol


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## natrone23 (Aug 24, 2008)

Yo mmm your spot on my friend, and your girl must be a smart chick....Richard Dawkins is the shit


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## MMM (Aug 24, 2008)

Thanks mang! I broke up with her recently though. We are still good friends though. She&#8217;s a cool chick. Even let me grow in her apt. She even encouraged it! Even though she isn&#8217;t really a smoker, f*ck what did I do lol!

In regards to Micro&#8217;s comment to Trish: I believe the reason most atheists refer to Christianity is because Christians happen to be the vast majority of people that we are not only addressing but also surrounded by in the Western part of the world. If we are addressing Buddhists, then in turn, we would be saying &#8220;Buddhists.&#8221; Unless you are located in the India right now&#8230;&#8230;..in that case my bad.

Rules for talking to atheists: 1. Replace the word &#8220;Christianity&#8221; with religion.
Soon to be expanded ;p

I think it is funny that everyone thinks their God seems to be the correct one. When the only variable, for what religion you happen to be, is the location of the vagina you come out of happens to be.

I love this quote from Richard Dawkins: Everyone is an atheist I just go one god further.

Props to your Jefferson quote Micro, he was a brilliant man.

EarthlyPassions, don&#8217;t insult me by saying an &#8220;American Perspective.&#8221; ;p I was born and raised in Middle America a.k.a. the Bible Belt. I&#8217;m lucky I came out how I am. I recently went to West Palm Beach, Florida where a friend lives. It really is amazing to not see 3-4 churches per block&#8230;..I am not joking. And culture my god! Europeans in G strings. Bless you people! Love it! I will be down there most likely when I graduate.


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## MMM (Aug 24, 2008)

Oh sorry for the extra post as if I don't talk enough but.....

I wanted to add that I didn't watch the video at the begging of this thread, although I may later, but look up Penn and Teller's "the Bible is Bullsh!t." You all may find it entertaining. They have a show called Bullsh!t that is entertaining. Also check out the banning of "dihydrogen monoxide" (H2O for people who would have signed it) on their show as well. It is hilarious and is only a testament of how uneducated the "sheep" of the world are and that most people don't think and just want to be part of an in-group, atheist and religious alike. (in-group/out-groups) <-- If you don't know what they are research a little. Youtube their videos some can be quite humorous but defiantly check dihydrogen monoxide first!!!!!!

Also The Lord is my shepherd.why would anyone want to be a sheep and mindlessly follow anything at all. Question everything my friends please.

Dawkin's book "The God Delusion" is a very good read also. Don't be offended by the title please! It is defiantly worth picking up trust me. It was referred to me by a Christian.

I also found it useful to looks at all ideas, especially early ideas, with the view point of an evolutionist. Such as why would this idea have been useful to people or a group in general for their survival. If you look at early religious tribes than you can see how a tribes religion could be very good for the tribes cohesion as a whole. Much like a pack of wolves or lions competing with another for food and resources (or even uncivilized tribes of people in todays world). I cant remember verbatim but there were quotes in the bible about keeping the good meat/food for yourselves and selling the lesser quality food/meat to rival tribe. Now thats not quite what we think of as being Christian today but good for the tribes (in-groups) survival. Now that was Old Testament (Pre Expansion Pack lol that is my term copywrite MMM 2k6) sotake that for what it is worth I think morals were corrected with the New Testament (Expansion Pack 2.0 although there have been even more revisions).

Ill try to dig up the link to an essay I found very interesting on this subject.


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## pamaris (Aug 25, 2008)

MMM said:


> Oh sorry for the extra post as if I don't talk enough but.....
> 
> I wanted to add that I didn't watch the video at the begging of this thread, although I may later, but look up Penn and Teller's "the Bible is Bullsh!t." You all may find it entertaining. They have a show called Bullsh!t that is entertaining. Also check out the banning of "dihydrogen monoxide" (H2O for people who would have signed it) on their show as well. It is hilarious and is only a testament of how uneducated the "sheep" of the world are and that most people don't think and just want to be part of an in-group, atheist and religious alike. (in-group/out-groups) <-- If you don't know what they are research a little. Youtube their videos some can be quite humorous but defiantly check dihydrogen monoxide first!!!!!!
> 
> ...


Hi MMM, I just wanted to say I respect your informed viewpoint and ability to debate without name-calling. I do read things that are contrary to my viewpoint. I think it is important for believers and non-believers alike to examine all sides of an issue and inspect the foundations of their beliefs.

I was trying to make the point earlier to the OP that science can't disprove religion (or God, or Christianity), just the same way that it can't prove it. I don't think religion is provable- it is a matter of faith. As an atheist, do you believe science can disprove the existence of God? Personally, I just think it's beyond the realm of science to prove it one way or the other.


----------



## pamaris (Aug 25, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> Just because all Christians might not be as militant as the fundamentalists doesn't mean that we shouldn't take on the fundamentalists. And frankly, I believe that all Christians think like the fundamentalists, whether they care to admit it or not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi, I have decided you are probably a lot younger than me. I say that because you won't move to the next level of debate. You're having a hard time understanding that not everyone fits your prejudices. It is actually quite ironic how you project Christians to be judgmental, closed-minded people, but in so doing you are showing yourself to have a closed mind.

When a Christian comes along and tries to explain how much variation there is in the term 'Christian' you simply won't have it. You just say, you're all the same. We say, believe what you want. You say, you're so narrow-minded.


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## sarah22 (Aug 25, 2008)

pamaris said:


> Hi MMM, I just wanted to say I respect your informed viewpoint and ability to debate without name-calling. I do read things that are contrary to my viewpoint. I think it is important for believers and non-believers alike to examine all sides of an issue and inspect the foundations of their beliefs.
> 
> I was trying to make the point earlier to the OP that science can't disprove religion (or God, or Christianity), just the same way that it can't prove it. I don't think religion is provable- it is a matter of faith. As an atheist, do you believe science can disprove the existence of God? Personally, I just think it's beyond the realm of science to prove it one way or the other.


sorry, i havent read the other posts...just the last page but i wanted to respond to this. science cant disprove the existence of god...but it has disproved things that god apparently did. like creating the world in 6 days. many christians believe that the world is only 6000 years old, and science has shown us that is wrong, because we have fossils dated back millions of years...just one example...


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## MMM (Aug 25, 2008)

By no means can you disprove and abstract idea. I could say that the universe was made by a nuclear physicist and some of his buddies who got bored one weekend and starting Monday they wanted to start building. Oh ya all these scientists are actually divine canines. That's right a group of educated dogs wearing roller skates and also former members of an 80's hairband, but in the 1780's. Yes the world is 200+ years old. They didn't make the world until 1795. They made up history and orchestrated the world into what it is today..............

Well do you see what I am trying to say? Religion, or possibly more correct faith, is all how you rationalize it. Your world is what you make it. Now science on the other hand is us trying to understand the world based on statistics. So far 2+2 has always added up to 4. I never have floated on earth....why? Lets understand it! So we say these things happen to have a 100% chance in it happening. That's something I can believe in! We could go off philosophically and say what is even the number 2? You can't prove the number 2. It merely happens to be an abstract idea also. It's a concept. But whats the sense in that?

I don't know if you guys have heard of the flying spaghetti monster but case in point. It is a group popular around most universities. It is a start up religion that whose beliefs are about a plate of spaghetti, their creator, who created the universe. Disprove it I dare ya! ;p


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## pamaris (Aug 25, 2008)

sarah22 said:


> sorry, i havent read the other posts...just the last page but i wanted to respond to this. science cant disprove the existence of god...but it has disproved things that god apparently did. like creating the world in 6 days. many christians believe that the world is only 6000 years old, and science has shown us that is wrong, because we have fossils dated back millions of years...just one example...


Hiya, I already addressed this. I and millions of other Christians do believe in evolution and all it entails. It is a sizable and vocal minority who believe the world was created in 6 "literal" 24-hour periods. What I've been trying to get across is that not all Christians accept the conservative, fundamentalist brand of Christianity that is so prevalent in the USA.

What I'm saying is that science can't disprove the idea that "Jesus is God" which is actually the only belief required in order to call oneself a Christian. Equally I have said that it can't be proven either; it's just a matter of belief.


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## pamaris (Aug 25, 2008)

MMM said:


> By no means can you disprove and abstract idea. I could say that the universe was made by a nuclear physicist and some of his buddies who got bored one weekend and starting Monday they wanted to start building. Oh ya all these scientists are actually divine canines. That's right a group of educated dogs wearing roller skates and also former members of an 80's hairband, but in the 1780's. Yes the world is 200+ years old. They didn't make the world until 1795. They made up history and orchestrated the world into what it is today..............
> 
> Well do you see what I am trying to say? Religion, or possibly more correct faith, is all how you rationalize it. Your world is what you make it. Now science on the other hand is us trying to understand the world based on statistics. So far 2+2 has always added up to 4. I never have floated on earth....why? Lets understand it! So we say these things happen to have a 100% chance in it happening. That's something I can believe in! We could go off philosophically and say what is even the number 2? You can't prove the number 2. It merely happens to be an abstract idea also. It's a concept. But whats the sense in that?
> 
> I don't know if you guys have heard of the flying spaghetti monster but case in point. It is a group popular around most universities. It is a start up religion that whose beliefs are about a plate of spaghetti, their creator, who created the universe. Disprove it I dare ya! ;p


Essentially, I agree with you. By the same token that we can't disprove a divine spaghetti creator, we can't disprove something as elaborate as Hinduism, or Buddhism. We can simply understand that this is what makes sense to some people. Jesus does make sense to me, though the institution of Christianity doesn't.

For some reason, the Gospel story makes sense to me personally, though I know rationally that I might have entirely different beliefs if I had been born at a different place or time.


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## Zekedogg (Aug 25, 2008)

I dont get involved in all the statitistics and what not........I know what I believe in and thats all that matters......Its didsturbing to listen to people argue over a god or not.........I have never seen so many atheists at one place in my life........perhaps the bud has got you all confused bwahahahahaahahah


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## MMM (Aug 25, 2008)

Zekedogg&#8230;..first were trying to have and intelligent debate here, at least I am, so go turn on a football game. I can see so many things on your avatar that spell out intelligence! 100 percent authentic asshole aye? Yee haw!!! I will translate what you just said. I don&#8217;t care about no math, science, reasonably, etc. If you want to live you life as an uneducated fool, then by all means do so, but please do not throw your opinion mindlessly in the way of others. Also do you think with out &#8220;statistics and what not&#8221;, science, and selective breeding, you would have all that delicious kind bud? No you would be buying Mexican brick from some dealer. Let us, the minority, debate and learn from each other so you can reap the benefits.

It may make sense but with no real world logic to it.


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## Zekedogg (Aug 25, 2008)

Zekedogg said:


> I dont get involved in all the statitistics and what not........I know what I believe in and thats all that matters......Its didsturbing to listen to people argue over a god or not.........I have never seen so many atheists at one place in my life........perhaps the bud has got you all confused bwahahahahaahahah


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## Zekedogg (Aug 25, 2008)

MMM said:


> Zekedogg..first were trying to have and intelligent debate here, at least I am, so go turn on a football game. I can see so many things on your avatar that spell out intelligence! 100 percent authentic asshole aye? Yee haw!!! I will translate what you just said. I dont care about no math, science, reasonably, etc. If you want to live you life as an uneducated fool, then by all means do so, but please do not throw your opinion mindlessly in the way of others. Also do you think with out statistics and what not, science, and selective breeding, you would have all that delicious kind bud? No you would be buying Mexican brick from some dealer. Let us, the minority, debate and learn from each other so you can reap the benefits.
> 
> It may make sense but with no real world logic to it.



Here is another person who has a hard on for me hiding behind another user name.


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## babylonburn (Aug 26, 2008)

fools go to church on sunday,ii say christianity uses all things of insanity to acheive vanity.......OVER ME,JAH JAH RULE OVER ME,LOVES ALL II GOT ,LOVES ALL II BRING


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## High4Life (Aug 26, 2008)

I the very 1st god and devil was Night and Day .. The ancients thought at night was when the Evil came out 
and made every thing black , 

And day break was the good going back out making every thing colour 

Cannabis was worshiped for this reason because of its both sex genetics Indecating Good and bad


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## natrone23 (Aug 27, 2008)

YouTube - Richard Dawkins reading his hate mail


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## trishmybiscuits (Aug 28, 2008)

Microdizzey said:


> do you have a religion Trish? why is it that you hate on Christianity when there are other religions in the world as well? and most of them all have the same belief, with some difference in famous people.
> 
> i just find it odd that atheists bring so much hate to one religion when there are many others.


I'm completely religion-free. And just because someone questions the validity of Christianity doesn't mean they're obligated to tackle other religions as well. I focus on Chritianity because I live in the United States.


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## xochi (Sep 2, 2008)

Christianity is a joke, its pathetic as is all religions, worry of the weak minded and demographically challenged. unfortunately its hard to debunk something based on lies and misconceptions than no one can agree upon. i give Islam 100% more credit and props than Christianity, then again had hitler gone after christians instead of jews the world would be a better place.


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## babylonburn (Sep 2, 2008)

xochi said:


> Christianity is a joke, its pathetic as is all religions, worry of the weak minded and demographically challenged. unfortunately its hard to debunk something based on lies and misconceptions than no one can agree upon. i give Islam 100% more credit and props than Christianity, then again had hitler gone after christians instead of jews the world would be a better place.


 sounds as hateful as hitler himself


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## babylonburn (Sep 2, 2008)

its better ways


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## MMM (Sep 2, 2008)

girl picture, you should be hit in the face with a shovel.


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## natrone23 (Sep 3, 2008)

MMM said:


> girl picture, you should be hit in the face with a shovel.


Theres a wonderful christian


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## Kludge (Sep 3, 2008)

The problem is you can't argue rationally with faith because faith is by its very nature irrational.

You say something rational like, "Sunlight is produced in our sun by the nuclear fusion of hydrogen nuclei into helium." 

And they will respond with, "Sunlight is like a warm hug from Jesus."

You just can't win. This doesn't mean we should stop fighting, that's what they want, to tire us with their ridiculous banter. So, don't give up the good fight but realize you're talking to brick walls.


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## Smokey Tha Bear (Sep 4, 2008)

haha very true man


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## trishmybiscuits (Sep 6, 2008)

Kludge said:


> The problem is you can't argue rationally with faith because faith is by its very nature irrational.
> 
> You say something rational like, "Sunlight is produced in our sun by the nuclear fusion of hydrogen nuclei into helium."
> 
> ...


It's imperative that Atheists become more assertive in the fight against fantasy and myth. In fact, I'd say it's their duty.


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## xXThirdManXx (Sep 6, 2008)

Even if there was a Jesus Christ whom walked upon this earth, which, to my belief, there wasn't; the story of the Bible is logically and historically flawed. My idea of God doesn't draw upon formal religion. I don't personally believe that god is just some crazy, angry, and jealous dude is in the sky judging me for my supposed "sins". I'd say that people who think that have got a pretty distorted and hostile view of reality. I do believe in God. It's a personal relationship that I hold close to me.


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## omegafarmer (Sep 6, 2008)

jesus was a mushroom


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## slu2 (Sep 6, 2008)

I don't know if that debunks anything. Humans are idiots. Religion has always been a major reason for war. However, it's not exclusive to any one religion. That's why I believe it's more the humans causing the problems than the religion.

I am one that believes in Jesus without any religion. It's a relationship, therefor I don't have to deal with man-made religions.

Here is something that I posted at my blog: xcannabis.com

I found this user on YouTube,
http://youtube.com/user/Propheteshttp://youtube.com/user/Prophetes

I really enjoyed these videos on their profile.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MimHZeH5K4c
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ukCLU_heKl8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=p-stsBn9A5I&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=o6TRWo-zHOs&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xU6sW74HvZs
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MimHZeH5K4c

Consider them with a grain of salt. I don't know much about their sources for this video. But I have studied similar things at: www.BiblePlaces.com
Gotta love the .com's!
 Join the forum discussion on this post


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## omegafarmer (Sep 6, 2008)

slu2 said:


> I don't know if that debunks anything. Humans are idiots. Religion has always been a major reason for war. However, it's not exclusive to any one religion. That's why I believe it's more the humans causing the problems than the religion.
> 
> I am one that believes in Jesus without any religion. It's a relationship, therefor I don't have to deal with man-made religions.
> 
> ...


yes i also have a personal relationship with hallucinogenic mushrooms.

your statement "I am one that believes in Jesus without any religion." is patently absurd. maybe if you change jesus for god you can get away with it but to say that for jc is just stupid. you remind me of steven colbert mocking some christian religious nutbar.


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## slu2 (Sep 6, 2008)

Have a personal relationship with whatever you want dude.


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## slu2 (Sep 6, 2008)

I had to fix the links, they weren't working

http://youtube.com/user/Prophetes
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ukCLU_heKl8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=p-stsBn9A5I&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=o6TRWo-zHOs&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xU6sW74HvZs
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MimHZeH5K4c


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## omegafarmer (Sep 6, 2008)

*Christianity was debunked* a long time ago
*
The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, 1970 * 





*The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, 1970 *

_The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross_ ruined John&#8217;s career. 

The book was the culmination of twenty years&#8217; study, for it grew out of everything he had learned about the development of Semitic and proto-Semitic languages. He meant it to launch his name upon history as a world thinker. He hoped it would illuminate the origins of thought and language, so that people could better understand where they came from, shed the trappings of religion, and take true responsibility for what they did to each other and their world. 

None of this got past the initial shock-waves. The mushroom cloud spread more derision than enlightenment. 

Underpinning _The Sacred Mushroom_ is the idea that fertility must be of fundamental importance to primitive religion, as it is to life. John set out this concept in a preliminary plan of the book, sent to the publishers Hodder and Stoughton, Ltd., on October 23, 1968:
The most important thing in life was life itself, and life is rain. The reasoning is simple. Rain begets vegetation on the earth as spermatozoa beget offspring in the womb. God, the Creator, the source of rain, must therefore be the sperm of creation and the heavenly penis from which it spills. The storm is the orgasm of God. The drops of rain are the &#8216;words&#8217; of God. Earth is the womb of creation. ​In The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, John set out to trace the expression of this simple philosophy through the sacred literature of the ancient world.
&#8216;The source of this breakthrough has been the oft-attempted but hitherto inconclusive search for a common denominator to the language groups of Sumerian, Indo-European, and Semitic. It is now possible to decipher some important proper names in the old hymns and epics in all these literatures, and to check and cross-check our results with the other languages.&#8217; John Allegro ​John&#8217;s linguistic clues criss-cross different cultures and lead into many-layered webs of association. They led him to believe that a fertility cult based on using the sacred mushroom, amanita muscaria, as a gateway to divine understanding, was at the root of many religions, including Christianity. The mushroom was seen as a symbol of God on earth. But because mushroom lore was secret, he reasoned that it had to be written down in the form of codes hidden in folk tales. &#8220;This is the basic origin of the stories of the New Testament. They were a literary device to spread the rites of mushroom worship to the faithful&#8230;The stories of the Gospels and Acts were a deliberate hoax. Through studying Sumerian cuneiform texts which go back to 3500 B.C., we can trace the proper names and words used in the Bible back to their original meanings.&#8221;

There are problems with the &#8216;deliberate hoax&#8217; idea. And John&#8217;s etymologies needed more substantiation &#8211; not enough was known at the time about the language of Sumer to verify many of his suggestions. However, in the outrage _The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross_ raised among Christian critics, scholars failed to follow up on the main ideas &#8211; a way of understanding the fertility concept at the root of religion, and the way language and religion grew up together: the origin of myth and philosophy. 

In January 2006, Jan Irvin and Andrew Rutajit published _Astrotheology & Shamanism: Unveiling the Law of Duality in Christianity and Other Religions_. This book, which is dedicated to John, was the first to make a serious examination of John&#8217;s proposals. The book substantiates many of his claims via iconographic and symbolic evidence and brings together years of research and references, many of which have been released since the publication of _The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross_. After 36 years, John&#8217;s idea of a Grand Unifying Theory of Religion may be coming to fruition.

After the publication of _The Sacred Mushroom_, John was criticized for making up many of his religious concepts, not only of drug use, but of fertility worship. Below is an extensive bibliography of materials used by Irvin and Rutajit in their study, _Astrotheology & Shamanism_. Many of the references, such as Frazer, Wasson, Graves, Ramsbottom, Rolfe, and many others, were also used by John. Included are references to several excellent books on ancient fertility worship: Inman, Howard, Goldberg, etc. Both Inman and Howard discuss fertility worship in Christianity at length. 

_The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross_ was published by: 

Hodder & Stoughton, London, 1970 - 1st edition ISBN:0340128755






Doubleday & Company, Garden City, NY, 1970 - 1st US Edition






Abacus Books, Soft Cover ISBN:0349100659






Bantam Books, New York, New York, 1970 - Mass Market Paperback







Don Mills: Paper Jacks, Ontario, Canada, 1971 ISBN:0773710000

Other languages:

Ed. Albin Michel,, Paris, 1971. br. 1ère édition française: Le Champignon sacré et la Croix 
Wien; München; Zürich: Fritz Molden: Der Geheimkult des heiligen Pilzes. Rauschgift als Ursprung unserer Religionen 

The Sacred Mushroom will possibly be scheduled for reprint, planned for sometime in 2007. 



*References*


· Acharya S, Suns of God, Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled - Adventures Unlimited Press, 2004, ISBN: 1-931882-31-2

· Acharya S, The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story ever Sold - Adventures Unlimited Press, 1999, ISBN: 0-932813-74-7

· Advanced Bible History for Lutheran Schools in the Words of Holy Scripture - Concordia, 1936

· Allen, Richard, Star Names: Their Lore and Meaning &#8211; 1898, Dover Publishing, 1963, ISBN:
















































0-0486-21079-0






· Anonymous, Nature Worship: An Account of Phallic Faiths and Practices Ancient and Modern &#8211; 1929, The Book Tree, 1999, ISBN: 1-58509-049-2

· Anonymous, Secret Instructions of the Society of Jesus (1882) - Kessinger Publishing, 1997, ISBN: 1564599124 

· Arthur, James, Mushrooms and Mankind: The Impact of Mushrooms on Human Consciousness and Religion - The Book Tree, 2000, ISBN: 1-58509-151-0



Arthur, James, Lectures and Audio Recordings:

· Christmas Mysteries, 12/24/01 with Lou Gentile

· Magic Mushrooms and the History of Santa Claus and Christmas, 12/02 with Caroline Casey

· Entheo-Mycology, 2002 with Jeff Rense 

· Mushrooms and Mankind, 12/19/02 with Jeff Rense

· Jeff Rense Show, 12/22/03

· Coast To Coast, 01/09/03 with George Noory 

· Coast to Coast 12/11/2003 with George Noory 

· The Open Mind Show 10/2/2003 with Patrick Duff

· Mushroom Minds, with Lou Epton 

· Amanita muscaria: The Mushrooms that Shape the Universe 

· Mushrooms and Mankind lecture: Recorded Live in Gizeh Egypt 

·  Ushering In The New Age, with Jordan Maxwell

· Glimpses within and Beyond 



· Aun Weor, Samael, The Perfect Matrimony: Tantra - the Door to Enter into Initiation - Thelema Pr, 2001, ISBN: 0974275506

· Baigent & Leigh, The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception: Why a Handful of Religious Scholars Conspired to Suppress the Revolutionary Contents of The Dead Sea Scrolls - Summit Books, 1991, ISBN: 0-671-73454-7

· Barnstone, Willis, The Other Bible - Harper Collins, 1984, ISBN: 0-06-250030-9

· Benitez, Fernando, In the Magic Land of Peyote - University of Texas Press, 1975, ISBN: 0-446-89306-4

· Bennett, Chris & Mcqueen, Neil, Sex, Drugs, Violence and the Bible - Forbidden Fruit Publishing, ISBN: 1-55056-798-5

· Bennett, Chris & Osburn, Lynn & Judy, Green Gold the Tree of Life: Marijuana In Magic and Religion - Access Unlimited, 1995, ISBN: 0-9629872-2-0 

· Bishop, Cliford & Osthelder, Xenia, Sexualia Mundi - Konemann, 2001, ISBN: 382902729X 

· Blakney, Raymond B., The Way of Life, Lao Tzu - Nal Penguin, 1955, 1983, ISBN: 0-451-62674-5

· Blavatsky, H. P., Isis Unveiled (Volumes 1 and 2) - Theosophical University PR, 1877 

· Brown, Judith Anne, John Marco Allegro The Maverick of the Dead Sea Scrolls - Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2005, ISBN: 0802828493

· Brown 32nd, Robert Hewitt, Stellar Theology and Masonic Astronomy - 1882, The Book Tree, 2002, ISBN: 1585092037 

· Budge, E.A. Wallis, The Egyptian Book of the Dead - 1895, Dover, 1967, ISBN: 0-486-21866-X

· Bullinger, Ethetbert W., Number and Scripture: Its Supernatural Design and Spiritual Significance - 1894, Kregel Publications, 1983, ISBN: 0825422388

· Bursenos, James, The Resurection of Santa Claus &#8211; Shaman&#8217;s Drum, Issue 68, 2005

· Busenbark, Ernest, Symbols, Sex, and the Stars in Popular Beliefs: An Outline of the Origins of Moon and Sun Worship, Astrology, Sex Symbolism, Mystic Meaning of Numbers, the Cabala, and Many Popular Customs, Myth - 1949, The Book Tree, 1997, ISBN: 1-885395-19-1

· Campbell, Joseph, The Hero With a Thousand Faces - MJF Books, 1949, ISBN: 1-56731-120-2

· Campbell, Joseph, The Power Of Myth with Bill Moyers - Doubleday, 1988, ISBN: 0-385-24773-7

· Campbell, Joseph, Occidental Mythology &#8211; 1964

· Castaneda, Carlos, The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge - Ballantine, 1968, ISBN: 34502656X125

· Chagnon, Napoleon A., Yanomamo, The Fierce People - Holt, Rinehart and Winston, Inc., 1968, ISBN: 0-03-0710707

· Churchward, Albert, The Origin and Evolution of Religion - Publisher: Book Tree, 2000 ISBN: 1585090786

· Conrad, Chris, Hemp Lifeline to the Future: The Unexpected Answer for Our Environmental and Economic Recovery - Creative Xpressions Publications, 1993

· Crowley, Aleister, The Book of Thoth - Lancer Books 

· Davis, Wade, Passage of Darkness: The Ethnobiology of the Haitian Zombie &#8211; University of North Carolina Press, 1988, ISBN: 0-8078-4210-9

· Deane, Rev. John Bathurst, The Worship of the Serpent - Health Research, 1970, ISBN: 0-78730279-1

· DeKorne, Jim, Psychedelic Shamanism: The Cultivation, Preparation and Shamanic Use of Psychotropic Plants - Breakout Productions, 1994, ISBN: 0-9666932-5-6

· DeMeo, James, Saharasia &#8211; The 4000 BCE Origins of Child Abuse, Sex-Repression, Warfare, and Social Violence In the Deserts of the Old World - OBRL, 1998, ISBN: 0-9621855-5-8

· de Santillana, Giorgio & von Dechend, Hertha, Hamlet&#8217;s Mill: An essay on myth and the frame of time &#8211; David R. Godine, Publisher, Inc., 1969, ISBN: 0-87923-215-3

· Devereux, Paul, The Long Trip, A Prehistory of Psychedelia - Arkana Books, 1997, ISBN: 0-14-019540-8

· Dobkin de Rios, Marlene, Hallucinogens, cross-cultural perspectives - University of New Mexico Press, 1984, ISBN: 0-8263-0737-X

· Eisenman, Robert & Wise, Michael, Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered - Penguin Books, 1992, ISBN: 0-14-023250-8

· Eisenman, Robert, James Brother of Jesus - Penguin Books, 1997, ISBN: 0-14-025773-X

· El-Amin, Mustafa, Freemasonry: Ancient Egypt and the Islamic Destiny - New Mind Productions, 1988, ISBN: 0933821131

· Eliade, Mircea, The Encyclopedia of Religion, 16 volumes --Macmillan Pub., 1987, ISBN: 0029098505

· Eliade, Mircea, Shamanism Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy - Princeton University Press, 1964, ISBN: 0-691-01779-4 

· Evans-Wentz, W.Y., The Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries: The Classic Study of Leprechauns, Pixies and other Fairy Spirits - University Books, 1966, ISBN: 0-8065-2579-7

· Fideler, David, Jesus Christ: Sun of God - Quest Books, 1993, ISBN: 0-8356-0696-1

· Fomenko, Anatoly T., History: Fiction or Science? Ch. 1 - Delamere Resources Ltd., 2003, ISBN: 2-913621-05-8

· Frazer, Sir James George, The Golden Bough: A Study in Magic and Religion, abridged - 1922, Macmillan Publishing Company, ISBN: 0-02-095570-7

· Freke, Timothy, & Gandy, Peter, Jesus and the Lost Goddess: The Secret Teachings of the Original Christians - Three Rivers Press, 2002, ISBN: 1400045940 

· Freke, Timothy, & Gandy, Peter, The Jesus Mysteries: Was the "Original Jesus&#8221; a Pagan God? - Three Rivers Press, 2001, ISBN: 0609807986 

· Fulcanelli, Le Mystere Des Cathedrales - Brotherhood of Life, Inc., 1964, 1990, ISBN: 0914732-14-5

· Furst, Peter T., Hallucinogens and Culture - Chandler & Sharp, 1976, ISBN: 0-88316-517-1

· Gilbert, Adrian G. & Cotterell, Maurice M., The Mayan Prophecies - Element, 1995, ISBN: 1-85230-692-0

· Goldberg, B.Z., The Sacred Fire: The Story of Sex in Religion &#8211; 1930, University Books, 1958

· Haggard, Howard W., Mystery, Magic, and Medicine - Double Day Doran, Inc. 1933 



Hall, Manly P., Lectures and Audio Recordings:



Audio Series:

· Alchemy - ISBN: 0-89314-002-3

· Astro-Theology: How Astrology Has Influence Mankind - ISBN: 0-89314-011-2 

· The Atom in Religion and Philosophy - ISBN: 0-89314-013-9 

· Studies in Man, Grand Symbols of the Mysteries - ISBN: 0-89314-268-9 

Lectures:

· Alchemy as a Key to Social Regeneration 

· Secret Teachings of All Ages: Initiation of the Pyramid 

· Winter Solstice: Annual Rebirth of the Universal Soul 

· Christian Gospels That Were Never in the Bible 

· Hidden Church of the Holy Grail

· When the Invincible Sun Moves Northward: The Solar Christmas 

· Jacob&#8217;s Ladder That Leads to the Stars 

· Precious Stones in Lore and Legend

· Love of Truth 

· Second Coming of the Santa Claus Spirit 

· Physical Body as a Universal Symbol 

· Sacred Mysteries of the Human Body 



· Hall, Manly P., Cabalistic Keys to the lords Prayer - Philosophical Research Society, 1992, ISBN: 0-89314-308-1

· Hall, Manly P., The Secret Teachings of All Ages, Diamond Jubilee edition - Philosophical Research Society, 1928, ISBN: 0-89314-546-7

· Hall, Manly P., Man: Grand Symbol of the Mysteries, Gems of Thought in Occult Anatomy - Philosophical Research Society - 1972, ISBN: 0-89314-513-0

· Hall, Manly P., Occult Anatomy of Man - Philosophical Research Society, 1977, ISBN: 0-89314-338-3

· Hall, Manly P., Planetary Influence and the Human Soul - Philosophical Research Society, 1985, ISBN:0-89314-3383

· Hall, Manly P., Pluto in Libra: An Interpretation - Philosophical Research Society, 1971, ISBN: 0893143421

· Hall, Manly P., Spiritual Centers of Man - Philosophical Research Society, 1978, ISBN: 0-89314-383-9

· Harding, Patrick, Christmas Unwrapped &#8211; Metro Books, 2002, ISBN: 1843580349

· Heinrich, Clark, Magic Mushrooms in Religion and Alchemy - Park Street Press, 2002, ISBN: 089281997-9

· Henry, William, Blue Apples - Scala Dei, 2000; ISBN: 0972582614

· Herer, Jack, The Emperor Wears No Clothes: The Authoritative Historical Record of Cannabis and the Conspiracy Against Marijuana, 11th edition - Ah-Ha Publishing, 2000, ISBN: 1-878125-02-8

· Highfield, Roger, The Physics of Christmas &#8211; Little, Brown and Company, 1998, ISBN: 0-316-36695-1

· Hindu Myths - Penguin Books, 1975, ISBN: 1-14-044306-1

· Hofmann, Albert, LSD - My Problem Child: Reflections on Sacred Drugs, Mysticism, and Science - Archer, 1979, 0-87477-256-7

· Hooper, Judith, & Teresi, Dick, The 3-Pound Universe, The Brain &#8211; From Chemistry of the Mind to the New Frontiers of the Soul - Dell Publishing, 1986, ISBN: 0-440-58507-4

· Hopfe, Lewis M., Religions of the World 5th edition - Macmillan Publishing Co., 1991, ISBN: 0-02-357205-1

· Howard, Clifford, Sex Worship: An Exposition of the Origin of Religion &#8211; 1898, The Book Tree, 2002, ISBN: 1885395981

· Hutchens 33rd, Rex R., A Bridge to Light - The Supreme Council, 33rd Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry Southern Jurisdiction, USA, 1995

· Huxley, Aldous, Brave New World - Harper & Row, 1932, 1946, ISBN: 0-06-080983-3

· Inman, Thomas, Ancient Pagan and Modern Christian Symbolism &#8211; 1869, The Book Tree, 2002, ISBN: 1885395957

· Jacques, J.H., The Mushroom and The Bride - The Citadel Press, 1970

· Jeffrey, Grant R., KJV Prophecy Marked Reference Study Bible - Zondervan, 1998, ISBN: 0-310-92064-7

· Jenkins, John Major, Maya Cosmogenesis 2012 - Bear & Co., 1998, ISBN: 1-879181-48-7

· Jung, Carl G., Flying Saucers - Routledge & Kegan Paul Ltd., 1959, ISBN: 0-7100-8696-2

· Jung, Carl G., Man and His Symbols - Dell, 1964, ISBN: 0-440-35183-9

· Johnson, Kenneth, Slavic Sorcery: Shamanic Journey of Initiation - Llewellyn, 1998, ISBN: 1-56718-374-3

· Karcher, Stephen, & Ritsema, Rudolf, I Ching The Classic Chinese Oracle of Change, The First Complete Translation With Concordance - Element Books Ltd., 1994, ISBN: 1-85230-669-6

· King, John C., A Christian View of the Mushroom Myth - Hodder and Stoughton, 1970, ISBN: 0-0340-12597-7

· Lamsa, George M., Peshitta: Holy Bible from the Ancient Eastern Text - Harper Collins, 1933, ISBN: 0-06-064926-7

· Lake, J.W., Tree and Serpent Worship - Holmes Publishing Group, 1998, 0-89314-338-3

· Landers, John, A Vision of the Gold Plates of the Book of Mormon - LDS.

· Lau, D.C., Confucius The Analects - Penguin Books, 1979, ISBN: 0-14-044348-7

· Lee, Martin A., & Shlain, Bruce, Acid Dreams: The Complete Social History of LSD: The CIA, the Sixties, and Beyond &#8211; revised - Grove Press, 1992, ISBN: 0-8021-3062-3

· Leedom, Tim C. (editor), The Book Your Church Doesn&#8217;t Want You to Read - Kendall/Hunt Publishing, 1993, ISBN: 0-8403-8908-6

· Lewis, H. Spencer, Rosicrucian: Questions and Answers/With Complete History of the Rosicrucian Order - Rosicrucian Order (Supreme Grand Lodge of AMORC); 1993, ISBN: 0912057599

· Longworth, T. Clifton, A Survey of Sex & Celibacy in Religion from Ancient to Modern Times &#8211; 1945, The Book Tree, 2003, ISBN: 1-58509-235-5

· Los Uffizi, Florencia Pintura Italiana - Taschen, 2001, ISBN: 3-8228-1177-7

· Lupieri, Edmondo, The Mandaeans: The Last Gnostics - Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co. 1993, 2002, ISBN: 0-8028-3924-X

· Lynn, Jay, The Alpha and Omega, the Greek Alphabet and Other Root Words, Unpublished, rev. 4/21/2003

· Lynn, Jay, Myrrh and the Resurrection, Unpublished, rev. 2/21/2005

· Mackey M.D., 33rd, Albert G. & McClenachan 33rd, Charles T., An Encyclopedia of Freemasonry and its Kindred Sciences - 1873, The Masonic History Company, 1910

· Macoy, Robert, A Dictionary of Freemasonry - 1895, Gramercy, 1989, ISBN: 0-517-69213-9

· Marriott, Alice & Rachlin, Carol K., Peyote - Thomas Y. Crowell, 1971, ISBN: 069061697X

· Mascaro, Juan, The Bhagavad Gita - Penguin Books, 1962, ISBN: 0-14-044121-2

· Mascaro, Juan, The Dhammapada - Penguin Books, 1973, ISBN: 0-14-044284-7

· Massey, Gerald, The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ: Separating Fact from Fiction - Publisher: Book Tree, 2000, ISBN: 1585090735

· Massey, Gerald, The Natural Genesis (volumes 1 and 2) - Black Classic Press

· Massey, Gerald, Ancient Egypt the Light of the World (volumes 1 and 2) - Kessinger Publishing, 2002, ISBN: 0766126544 and 0766126552 

· Massey, Gerald, Egyptian Book of the Dead and the Mysteries of Amenta - Kessinger Publishing 1997, ISBN: 1564598918

· Massey, Gerald, Gerald Massey's Lectures - Kessinger Publishing 1997, ISBN: 1564591743

· Maxwell, Jordan, Matrix of Power, How the World has Been Controlled by Powerful People Without Your Knowledge - The Book Tree, 2000, ISBN: 1-58509-120-0

· Maxwell, Tice, Snow, That Old-Time Religion: The Story of Religious Foundations - The Book Tree, 2000, ISBN: 1-58509-120-0



- Maxwell, Jordan, Lectures and Audio Recordings:

· Ancient Symbolism 

· Cracking the Code 

· Dark Side of Religion 

· Men In Black 

· Misunderstood Religion 

· Religious-Political Symbols 

· Symbolically Speaking 

· Symbolism and Secret Societies 

· Symbolism in the U.S. 

· Toxic Religion 

· The Story Your Church Did Not Tell You

Series:

· Continuence of Religo Political P 1 of 5 

· Astro-Theology P 2 of 5 

· From Ancient Times P 3 of 5 

· Symbols of All Times P 4 of 5 

· Symbols of Satan P 5 of 5



· McKenna, Terence & Dennis, The Invisible Landscape: Mind Hallucinogens and the I Ching - Harper Collins, 1993, ISBN: 0-06-250635-8

· McKenna, Terence, The Archaic Revival: Speculations on Psychedelic Mushrooms, the Amazon, Virtual Reality, UFO&#8217;s, Evolution, Shamanism, the Rebirth of the Goddess, and the End of History - Harper Collins, 1991, ISBN: 0-06-250613-7

· McKenna, Terence, Food of the Gods, The Search for the Original Tree of Knowledge: A Radical History of Plants, Drugs, and Human Evolution - Bantam, 1992, ISBN: 0-553-37130-4

· McKenna, Terence, True Hallucinations: Being an Account of the Author&#8217;s Extraordinary Adventures in the Devil&#8217;s Paradise - Harper Collins, 1993, ISBN: 0-06-250545-9

· McKenna, Halifax, Furst, Hofmann, Schultes, edited by Riedlinger, The Sacred Mushroom Seeker &#8211; Tributes to R. Gordon Wasson - Park Street Press, 1997, ISBN: 0-89281-338-5

· McWilliams, Peter, Ain&#8217;t Nobody&#8217;s Business If You Do - Prelude Press, 1996, ISBN: 0-931580-58-7 

· Merkur, Dan, The Mystery of Manna: The Psychedelic Sacrament of the Bible - Park Street Press, 2000, ISBN: 0-89281-772-0

· Metzner, Ralph, Ayahuasca: Human Consciousness and the Spirits of Nature - Thunder&#8217;s Mouth Press, 1999, ISBN: 1-56025-160-3

· Miller, Richard and Iona, The Modern Alchemist: A Guide to Personal Transformation -, Phanes Press, 1994, ISBN: 0-933999-37-2 

· Moor, Edward, Hindu Pantheon - 1810, Philosophical Research Society, Inc., 1976, ISBN: 0893144096

· Müller-Ebeling, Rätsch, Shahi, Shamanism and Tantra in the Himalayas - Inner Traditions, 2002, ISBN: 0892819138

· Müller-Ebeling, Rätsch, Storl, Witchcraft Medicine: Healing Arts, Shamanic Practices, and Forbidden Plants - Inner Traditions, 2003, ISBN: 089281971-5

· Murphy, Joseph M., Santeria, African Spirits in America, Beacon - 1993, ISBN: 0-8070-1021-9

· Mysteries of the Bible: The Enduring Questions of the Scriptures - Readers Digest, 1989, ISBN: 0895772930

· Myerhoff, Barbara G., Peyote Hunt: The Sacred Journey of the Huichol Indians - Cornell University Press, 1974, ISBN: 0-8014-3137-1

· Narby, Jeremy, The Cosmic Serpent, DNA and the Origins of Knowledge - Tarcher Putnam, 1998, ISBN: 0-87477-964-2

· Orwell, George, Nineteen Eighty-Four - Martin Secker & Warburg, 1949

· Oss & Oeric, Psilocybin Magic Mushroom Grower&#8217;s Guide, 1976 - Quick American Publishing, 1991, ISBN: 0-932551-06-8

· Ott, Jonathan, Hallucinogenic Plants of North America - Wingbow Press, 1976, ISBN: 0-914728-15-6

· Ott, Jonathan, The Age of Entheogens and the Angels&#8217; Dictionary - Natural Products Company, 1995, ISBN: 0-9614234-7-1

· Ott, Jonathan, Pharmacotheon: Entheogenic drugs, their plant sources and history 2nd edition - Natural Products Company, 1996, 0-9614234-9-8

· Oxford English Dictionary Second Edition - Oxford University Press, 1989, ISBN: 0-19-861186-2

· Pelikan, Jaroslav, The Illustrated Jesus Through the Centuries - Yale University Press, 1997, ISBN: 0-300-07268-6

· Pickthall, Mohammed M., The Glorious Qur&#8217;an translation - Tahrike Tarile Qur&#8217;an, Inc., 2000, ISBN: 1-879402-51-3

· Pike, Albert & House of the Temple, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, 1871

· Prasad, Ganga, The Fountain-Head of Religion - A Comparative Study of the Principal Religions of the World and a Manifestation of Their Common Origin From the Vedas - 1927, The Book Tree, 2000, ISBN: 1-58509-054-9

· Puharich, Andrija, The Sacred Mushroom: Key to the Door of Eternity - Doubleday, 1959

· Ramsbottom, John, Mushrooms & Toadstools: A Study of the Activities of Fungi, 2nd edition &#8211; Collins, 1954

· Regardie, Israel, 777 And Other Qabalistic Writings of Aleister Crowley - Weiser Books, 1986, ISBN: 0877286701

· Reich, Wilhelm, The Invasion of Compulsory Sex-Morality - Penguin, 1975, ISBN: 0140218556

· Reich, Wilhelm, The Mass Psychology of Fascism, trans. By Vincent R. Carfagno, Farrar - Straus and Giroux, 1970

· van Renterghem, Tony, When Santa was a Shaman: The Ancient Origins of Santa Claus & the Christmas Tree - Llewellyn Publications, 1995, ISBN: 1-56718-765-x

· Robinson, James M., The Nag Hammadi Library in English &#8211; HarperCollins, 1990, ISBN: 0-06-066935-7

· Robinson, John J., Born In Blood - The Lost Secrets of Freemasonry - Evens, 1989, 0-87131-602-1

· Robinson, Rowan, The Great Book of Hemp: The Complete Guide to the Environmental, Commercial, and Medicinal Uses of the World&#8217;s Most Extraordinary Plant - Park Street Press, 1996, ISBN: 0-89281-541-8

· Rolf, R.T., & F.W, The Romance of the Fungus World: An Account of Fungus Life in Its Numerous Guises, Both Real and Legendary &#8211; 1925, Dover, 1974, ISBN: 0-486-23105-4

· Roob, Alexander, The Hermetic Museum: Alchemy & Mysticism - Taschen, 2001, ISBN: 3-8228-1514-4

· Ruck, Staples, Heinrich, The Apples of Apollo: Pagan and Christian Mysteries of the Eucharist - Carolina Academic Press, 2001, ISBN: 0-89089-924-X

· Russell, Dan, Shamanism and the Drug Propaganda: The Birth of Patriarchy and the Drug War - Kalyx.com, 2000, ISBN: 0965025349

· Sacks, David, Language Visible Unraveling the Mystery of the Alphabet from A to Z. - Broadway, 2003, 0-7679-11725

· Sacred Writings 5: Hinduism; The Rig Veda - Montilal Banarsidass

· Samorini, Giorgio, Animals and Psychedelics: The Natural World and the Instinct to Alter Consciousness - Park Street Press, 2002, ISBN: 089281986-3

· Schiaparelli, G., Astronomy in the Old Testament - Oxford, 1905

· Schultes, Hofmann, Rätsch, Plants of the Gods, revised - Healing Arts Press, 2001, ISBN: 089281979-0

· Schuster, Ignatius, Bible History of the Old and New Testaments (for use of Catholic Schools) 31st edition &#8211; B. Herder Book Co., 1956

· Shulgin, Alexander & Ann, Pihkal A Chemical Love Story - Transform Press, ISBN: 0-9630096-0-5

· Shulgin, Alexander & Ann, Tihkal The Continuation - Transform Press, ISBN: 0-9630096-9-9

· Slattery, Elisa, &#8220;To Prevent a &#8216;Shipwreck of Souls&#8217;: Joann Weyer and &#8216;De Praestigiis Daemonum&#8217; &#8221; Published in &#8220;Essays in History,&#8221; by the Corcoran Department of History, University of Virginia, Volume 36, (1994), Pg. 76.

· Smith, Morton, Jesus the Magician &#8211; Harper & Row, 1978, ISBN: 0-06-067413-X

· Spess, David L., Soma - The Divine Hallucinogen - Park Street Press, 2000, ISBN: 0-89281-731-3

· Stafford, Peter, Psychedelics Encyclopedia 3rd Edition - Ronin Publishing, Inc., 1992, ISBN: 0-914171-51-8

· Stamets, Paul, Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World - Ten Speed Press, 1996, ISBN: 0-89815-839-7

· Strassman, Rick, DMT The Spirit Molecule: A Doctor&#8217;s Revolutionary Research into the Biology of Near-Death and Mystical Experiences - Park Street Press, 2001, ISBN: 0-89281-927-8

· Strong, James, Strong&#8217;s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible - Thomas Nelson Inc., 1979, ISBN: 0-8407-4999-6

· Suzuki, Daisetz T., An Introduction to Zen Buddhism - Grove Weidenfeld, 1964, ISBN: 0-8021-3055-0

· Talbot, Michael, Holographic Universe - Perennial; Reprint edition, 1992, ISBN: 0060922583

· Teeter, Donald E., The Sacred Secret: The Return of the Christ &#8211; Xlibris, 2001, ISBN: 1-4010-2521-8

· Vallance, Jeffery, Santa is a Wildman! &#8211; LA Weekly, Dec. 20-26, 2002

· Waite, Arthur E., Secret Tradition in Alchemy - Kessinger Publishing, 1992, ISBN: 0922802831

· Waite, Charles B., History of the Christian Religion to the Year Two Hundred 1900 &#8211; The Book Tree, 1992, ISBN: 1885395159

· Ward, Henry Dana, History of the Cross: The Pagan Origin and Idolatrous Adoption and Worship of the Image 1871 - The Book Tree, 1999, ISBN: 1-58509-056-5

· Wasserman, James, Art and Symbols of the Occult: Images of Power and Wisdom - Destiny Books, 1993, ISBN: 0892814152

· Wasson, R. Gordon, Soma: Divine Mushroom of Immortality - Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, Inc., 1968, ISBN: 0-15-683800-1

· Wasson, Kramrisch, Ott, Ruck, Persephone&#8217;s Quest: Entheogens and the Origins of Religion - Yale University Press, 1986, ISBN: 0-300-05266-9

· Watts, Alan W., The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are - Collier Books, 1966

· Webster, Noah, An American Dictionary of the English Language, 1828, 1853

· Webster, Merriam, Webster's International &#8211; Unabridged - Dictionary of the English Language 1890, 1893, comprising the issues of 1864, 1879, and 1884.

· Webster, Merriam, Webster&#8217;s New International Dictionary of the English Language, 1909, 1921

· Webster, Merriam, Webster&#8217;s Third New International Dictionary of the English Language, 1961, 1986, ISBN: 0-85229-503-0

· Westropp, H. M., Wake, C. S., Ancient Symbol Worship: Influence of the Phallic Idea &#8211; 1875, The Book Tree, 1999, ISBN: 1-58509-048-4

· Whiston, William, The Works of Josephus Complete and Unabrideged - Hendrickson Publishers, Inc., 1987, ISBN: 1-56563-167-6

· Whitehead, Neil L., Wright Robin, In Darkness and Secrecy: The Anthropology of Assault Sorcery and Witchcraft in Amazonia &#8211; Duke University Press, 2004, ISBN: 0822333457

· Whitehead, Neil L., Dark Shamans: Kanaimà and the Poetics of Violent Death &#8211; Duke University Press, 2002, ISBN: 0822329883

· Whiting, Alfred F., Ethnobotany of the Hopi - Museum of Northern Arizona, Flagstaff, 1966. Originally issued in 1939 as Bulletin No. 15

· Wilson, Peter Lamborn, Ploughing the Clouds: The Search for the Irish Soma - City Lights, 1999, ISBN: 0-87286-326-3

· Winter, Zain, Jesus is a Myth, A Handbook to Reclaim your Celestial Inheritance - Hunter in the Sky, 2000, ISBN: 0-9706588-0-X

· Young, Kelly, Hardy lichen shown to survive in space &#8211; NewScientist.com News Service, November 10, 2005. www.newscientistspace.com/article.ns?id=dn8297 

· Zalewski, Pat & Chris, Z-5 Secret Teachings of the Golden Dawn, Book II The Zelator Ritual 1 = 10 - Llewellyn, 1992, ISBN: 0-87542-896-7

· Zimmer, Lynn & Morgan, John P., Marijuana Myths Marijuana Facts: A Review of the Scientific Evidence - The Lindesmith Center, 1997, ISBN: 0-9641568-4-9


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## slu2 (Sep 6, 2008)

I don't know if you're just trying to fill up a page, or if you are trying to send a sincere message.

But in response to your magic mushroom relationship. Most of my website is dedicated to Cannabis in Religion. 

I truly believe that cannabis has been used in Christian and Judaic annointings for many years.

You can see some of the topics that I post on my blog are directly related to true and ancient history, and found in the writtings of famous Rabbis.

This is an interesting book that Roger Christie from THC Ministry shows us.
It is a Hebrew to English dictionary written by a famous Rabbi.
The contents relating to the annoiting oils in the Bible shows that cannabis was a main ingredient.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaiKSWKzjdc
The Living Torah
http://www.amazon.com/Living-Torah-English-Translation-Traditional/dp/0940118351
Its supposed to be very Hebrew correct.
 Join the forum discussion on this post 



Also, here is another video for you:
Lost Kings of the Bible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEeMT3lP4G8

One part of many.. 


http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/?source=4003


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## smartsoverambition (Sep 6, 2008)

when i see this it just makes me angry, when i have no problem with athiests and i respect their beliefs but if people something teaches you to love your family, always do the right thing and do the best you can WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT?
seriously the peole who sit and they pray in the privacy of their own home and go to church and don't bother those who don't believe and are not open to idea religion how do you think they feel? i see people walking around with upside down crosses and people x ing ut crosses but how many times do you see " athiests can all go to hell"
this thread should be taken down because it truly borders on hate and the people who argue that you can't win an arguement with someone who is passive and athiests get mad because they can't win the argument because they angry that's your fault for getting angry
\and btw jehovah winesses make me mad too

and one last thing for people who smoke wee we should be alot calmer than this and we really should not be judging eachother or trying to debunk eachothers belief because if you actualy analyze creationalism there are holes in that to


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## omegafarmer (Sep 6, 2008)

slu2 said:


> I don't know if you're just trying to fill up a page, or if you are trying to send a sincere message.
> 
> But in response to your magic mushroom relationship. Most of my website is dedicated to Cannabis in Religion.
> 
> ...


yes of course cannabis was an important part of life and still is in some of the world, but the aminita muscaria mushroom was the 'sun of god'


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## slu2 (Sep 6, 2008)

I'll look into your mushroom theory. 

Meanwhile, I am just now finishing production on a video that addresses the issue of stoners vs. Christianity. 

I happen to be a stoner that has a relationship with Christ. But that's nothing new. Marely, Tosh, Buffet, Isaacs, were all dedicated believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. 

Im just saying, people talking about mushrooms or cannabis being a part of ritual and blessings, I can totally see how that would work. 

I'll post my latest video when Im done with it. It's probably an hour away. If you're interested.


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## omegafarmer (Sep 6, 2008)

slu2 said:


> I'll look into your mushroom theory.
> 
> Meanwhile, I am just now finishing production on a video that addresses the issue of stoners vs. Christianity.
> 
> ...


it's not my theory, but after my study of allegro's work i have come to believe that his theory's were correct. christianity was a fertility cult that worshiped hallucinogenics above all other thing accept their concept of god as the big penis in the sky.

there never was a jesus christ accept for the mushroom mentioned earlier


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## slu2 (Sep 6, 2008)

Thats not plausible. But if that theory works for you. All I can say is that it takes all kinds.


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## omegafarmer (Sep 6, 2008)

slu2 said:


> Thats not plausible. But if that theory works for you. All I can say is that it takes all kinds.


how is it that you can have a king who leave no real evidence of ever existing, like oh i dont know a signature or something as radical as that. the guy was supposed to be a high tech worker as in a carpenter and a king but no trace hmmmmm. 

you need faith for that until you have experience of course, experience replaces faith cause once you have experience you no longer need faith. unless you chose to ignore the experience and there are a lot that do.

it certainly does not take all kinds to continue believing in such deception as the untraceable story you are so fond of. 

if either of us has a theory to be described as "not plausible" it is surely your's


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## johndoe2216751 (Sep 6, 2008)

wtf is debunked.


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## slu2 (Sep 6, 2008)

"how is it that you can have a king who leave no real evidence of ever existing, like oh i dont know a signature or something as radical as that. the guy was supposed to be a high tech worker as in a carpenter and a king but no trace hmmmmm. "

No trace? In historical books of His time Jesus was written about, by such people as famous Roman historian Flavious Josephus. 

Jesus was poor, he "had no place to lay His head". He was a homeless vagabond. It's not as though he had an empire, and remains of cities and temples that He Himself built.

But Solomons temple, and many historical references to Jesus exist. There are homes that have been unearthed from that era of time that mention Jesus also. 

There is a lot of historical evidence for the Bible, and even for Jesus. I have listed only a few of those references. There are plenty of others too.

Did you watch the videos that I have posted so far?

I mean, the theory, the design, and the relationship all make sense (to me), without all of this awesome evidence. But just for your own humor and entertainment visit places like www.BiblePlaces.org 

It's all just trivial. But I get lost for hours researching that stuff. It's pretty right-on!


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## omegafarmer (Sep 6, 2008)

slu2 said:


> "how is it that you can have a king who leave no real evidence of ever existing, like oh i dont know a signature or something as radical as that. the guy was supposed to be a high tech worker as in a carpenter and a king but no trace hmmmmm. "
> 
> No trace? In historical books of His time Jesus was written about, by such people as famous Roman historical Flavious Josephus.
> 
> ...


you seem very confused friend, the guy was supposed to be a carpenter and that was a high tech job of the day, now add int eh king thing and you would have signatures like most of the other important characters of the day.
like i say with faith you can ignore experience and evidence of the glaring lack of it.


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## slu2 (Sep 6, 2008)

Hahaha. Jesus was from a working class family. High tech or not, he was still working class. He would be like the son of the boy who's dad works at Boeing. Good job, but so what!

From the beginning of His ministry he was homeless "had no where to lay His head".

And this "king thing"? 

Well, yes. The Romans put a plaque above His head that said "King of the Jews".

What is your point here? Should we be finding evidence such as Palaces, and cities made in His name?

Well. For reference, Solomons temple was built for Jesus before Jesus ever came to earth as a mortal. And we have found Solomons temple. Just FYI..

But you are asking for more than the text ever write about. What EXACTLY should we be finding archeologically for Jesus? Is there something written about in the Bible that I am missing? If so, what earthly treasure should we find of Jesus' that we haven't already found?


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## slu2 (Sep 6, 2008)

BTW- Did you check out any of the videos that I sent your way?


----------



## slu2 (Sep 6, 2008)

Well, Im half way done with rendering this video. I'll just upload it to http://youtube.com/xcannabiscom When I get it wrapped up.

I'm just letting you know that Im tapping out for the night. I waited around for awhile before I quit, but you never replied. 

But Im done with my online shiznit tonight, Im going to go enjoy the evening.

Peace!


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## omegafarmer (Sep 6, 2008)

before the "no where to lay his head" bit, the character in the story was trained as a carpenter, which was a high tech job in the day. this person would have been schooled and would have left traces such as a signature...thats all i am looking for just one lousy signature, just one.

the rest of the story is so preposterous is hard to bother discussing it at all. there is no word of god. the voice of god is thunder and the hand is lightning but there is no word. bob marley said it well.....a mighty god is a living man. you can fool some people sometime, but you cant fool all the people all the time...


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## slu2 (Sep 6, 2008)

"mighty god is a living man."

I totally agree with Bob. 

For a peak at what Christians believe regarding Bob Marley's notion. Check out Genesis 18.

Here is a music video that is very explicit on the context and the doctrinal aspect of it.

*Genesis 18*

YouTube - IF YOU ARE a MUSLIM or JEW...This is for you

This explains who that "living man" is.


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## slu2 (Sep 6, 2008)

This is my latest video from xCannabis.com:

-- xCannabis - Christians and Cannabis

"Is Christianity in conflict with cannabis, or is Christianity at odd with the Cannabis culture?

This will be one of many times I talk about this subject. "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW2rb_h5gCU

Turn the volume up to hear it. We live by a highway.


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## omegafarmer (Sep 6, 2008)

slu2 said:


> "mighty god is a living man."
> 
> I totally agree with Bob.
> 
> ...


i think we are both interpreting "living man" in different contexts but hey im not hear to change your mind about anything. my father was a full on christian and the idea of jc being a mushroom and the sun being the head of god's dick was never going to work for him and we butted heads for 30 years give or take


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## slu2 (Sep 7, 2008)

So many a' rasta praise the name Jesus Christ. Man, thats no secret.


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## omegafarmer (Sep 7, 2008)

i dont care if 99.999999999% of the population are sucked into it, it matter not one bit to me.


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## slu2 (Sep 7, 2008)

"it matter not one bit to me"

Seems like you pay an aweful lot of attention to it despite how much it matters to you. 

Best wishes with your pursuits.


----------



## omegafarmer (Sep 7, 2008)

slu2 said:


> "it matter not one bit to me"
> 
> Seems like you pay an aweful lot of attention to it despite how much it matters to you.
> 
> Best wishes with your pursuits.


paying attention is the key to everything.

peace


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## slu2 (Sep 7, 2008)

Agreed. I find a lot of interest in other faiths. Definately things to learn from in all culture.

Which is why I draw my conclusion that while religion seems to be a major factor in war. It doesn't seem like it's unique to any one religion.

I like to muse on that idea. Because it seems like people just want someone to lead them, and it also seems like humans enjoy following someone. 

I observe the faith traditions and doctrines of Christianity. But I can't and won't use Christianity as an excuse for bad behavior. 

Religion is fascinating. Some good, some bad, but one thing is for sure... It's all over the place.


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## Dr.Chronic (Sep 7, 2008)

Man everytime you point out flaws in a religion fucking jesus freak's always swarm on it like flies on shit.


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## ChronicGrower (Sep 7, 2008)

I am a christian, but I do not shove my beliefs on anyone else. I don't have to worry about what you believe. That's your problem.


----------



## Dr.Chronic (Sep 7, 2008)

Yeah we'll if im wrong, i burn in hell and if your wrong then you wasted your whole life for nothing, either way one of us is going to lose and im more than willing to put my chips all in..


----------



## pamaris (Sep 8, 2008)

Dr.Chronic said:


> Yeah we'll if im wrong, i burn in hell and if your wrong then you wasted your whole life for nothing, either way one of us is going to lose and im more than willing to put my chips all in..



That's Pascal's wager in reverse sort of. I see that there's something to lose by not believing and something to gain by believing.

For me, it's not about avoiding hell. It's about gaining something out is this world. I find the idea that I will be nothing when I die to be utterly depressing. To me that is nearly as bad as hell. I am looking forward to the big rave in the sky (my idea of heaven).


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## ChronicGrower (Sep 8, 2008)

They will say that he loves you, he don't
From their bible they're controlled
His descent they expect in our life
They'll be waiting till they die
Disembark from their path of belief
If in turn will set you free
Cannot live with the fact that they're wrong
That there is no truth in god
Trick or betrayed
Their faith ends in pain
Rip up their bible before is too late
Time we undo unity
For it is for fools
In this world we don't need
Trick or betrayed
I think you should know
They know it's true
That their book is a hoax
Join us to see through the light
Christ is a scheme and will ruin your life
Trick or betrayed
Why insist on the cross died for us
His infliction never was
They assume that his death brought them life
To be dead will change their minds
When you see what you feel is not real
Disappointment is revealed
Cannot live with the fact that they're wrong
There is no such thing as god

_Deicide Trick Or Betrayed lyrics_


----------



## WWgrower (Sep 8, 2008)

Wow can't believe such a stupid thread has lasted so long! And for those so called christians out there I really appreciate the neg rep. and the comments of calling me a cunt and you don't belong here! So much for giving our opinions on the subject. Oh, excuse me my opinion defers greatly from yours. What happened to turn the other cheek. It's OK as long as it is for a religion as flawed as yours!


----------



## Microdizzey (Sep 8, 2008)

Dr.Chronic said:


> Yeah we'll if im wrong, i burn in hell and if your wrong then you wasted your whole life for nothing, either way one of us is going to lose and im more than willing to put my chips all in..


the end is near and you will have many chances to repent, if you survive the turmoil that is about to take place. for an educated person, the signs will be apparent, so you will have time.

what kind of life do you live, sir? does your life involve true freedom and peace? i'm a follower of Jesus, NOT Christianity, and my life is all but wasted! i am a free spirit, free to roam the planet, free to love, free to speak, free from the shackles of society. money is just paper used to buy essentials. nothing more.

don't let the institutionalized, corrupted churches of Christianity turn you away from eternal peace and prosperity.


----------



## ChronicGrower (Sep 8, 2008)

Microdizzey said:


> the end is near and you will have many chances to repent, if you survive the turmoil that is about to take place. for an educated person, the signs will be apparent, so you will have time.
> 
> what kind of life do you live, sir? does your life involve true freedom and peace? i'm a follower of Jesus, NOT Christianity, and my life is all but wasted! i am a free spirit, free to roam the planet, free to love, free to speak, free from the shackles of society. money is just paper used to buy essentials. nothing more.
> 
> don't let the institutionalized, corrupted churches of Christianity turn you away from eternal peace and prosperity.


Well said.


----------



## slu2 (Sep 8, 2008)

Word up man!


----------



## trishmybiscuits (Sep 12, 2008)

smartsoverambition said:


> this thread should be taken down because it truly borders on hate


You're just doing what Christians do best here and that is: spin. Someone raises questions about your religion and you twist that into hate. This thread doesn't espouse hate. It merely debunks many of the wild claims that Christians make about their religion. I've got news for you. That isn't hate.


----------



## nitrobud (Sep 15, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> You're just doing what Christians do best here and that is: spin. Someone raises questions about your religion and you twist that into hate. This thread doesn't espouse hate. It merely debunks many of the wild claims that Christians make about their religion. I've got news for you. That isn't hate.


RAmen brother...

I guess this explains why many think John McCain would be the best candidate to elect in to office. During his term most likely, he will be able to take up the White House in the sky and maybe reverse all these disasters that are happening. 

LOL @ Idea of an afterlife.


----------



## We Love 1 (Sep 16, 2008)

I am We TarDeD!

I told you guys why the Earth is growing. (Search my posts with that name- We TarDed- the thread was called "Is the Earth growing?")

Now I will tell you why there is *NO* *"Dark Matter"*

YouTube - Dark Matter Dark Energy & the Unknown Universe








I believe (My theory)

Force = Gravity = Acceleration = Energy

E = MC^2 can turn into M = E/C^2.

Thus because mass is equal to energy divided by the speed of light squared, all potential and kenetic energy can be quantified by by mass. The amount of "missing" mass can be calculated by the addition of its potential and kinetic energy both divided by the speed of light squared! 

(Potential Energy + Kinetic Energy) / C^2 = "missing" matter..

*The higher the gravity, the more "missing" mass. Gravity is ubiquitous. (Edit- Heres a hint) Think about black holes... 



* 



Since this is my theory, I would like to rename "dark matter" to either "*God Matter(s)* or "*light matter*".. Either one will suffice. 

I believe everything = God
*
I believe science is the study of Gods work..*

You guys are going to have fun with We. Tell all your friends to check out if my theory is correct. Lets put our minds together. 


New England Pastor Magazine: What Farmers Tell Us About the End of the World

Ask me what my name is and what it means. 

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## We Love 1 (Sep 16, 2008)

My name is George Manuel Oliveira.

My name *means - *Farmer / with us is God / olive tree. 

My DOB- 8-14-1985 (When did the trinity bomb explode? Whats todays date?) 



I just realized these things about a month ago. I have an amazing story to tell.. Believe this! I speak the truth! 


*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## We Love 1 (Sep 16, 2008)

What are my initials?........ GMO...... Whats GMO backwards?

What does that stand for?



(We smoke Herb! )

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## trafik (Sep 16, 2008)

Can't we all just get along and put aside our differences
If you believe in something that make you happy, gives you strength , 
make your life better , or make you a better person or dose ANYTHING positive for you
THAT IS THE RIGHT RELIGION OR WHATEVER YOU LIKE TO CALL IT FOR YOU!!!! 

*( unless you believe in Scientology cuz that is just stupid , hahaha )

The minute you get into other peoples beliefs and religious views that's where you will have problems .

If you are not able to respect other peoples beliefs seems to me that you are not satisfied with whatever you believe in or your religion dose not include tolerance .


I apologize for the Scientology comment ( if anyone got offended ) I am just a bit angry after they told me I don't have enough money to join. LOL


TWO TIMES !!!!!! HAHAHAHA


----------



## nitrobud (Sep 16, 2008)

The "Dark Matter" isn't missing, it just Isn't "visible" in the traditional electromagnetic sense. However, it can be seen through its gravitational influence. 

Our eyes can't see IR light... Doesn't mean it is not there. Technology has found a way around this issue (Cameras see IR), just like it found a way around the fact we can't see Dark Matter.


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## We Love 1 (Sep 16, 2008)

My mothers name is Mary and my Dads name is Nuno- means ninths.

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## We Love 1 (Sep 16, 2008)

Jesus died for We!

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## Rotfeast (Sep 18, 2008)

I'm pretty surprised at how many avid Christians smoke/grow ganja.

Your fellow parishioners would probably crucify YOU if they ever found out, lol!


----------



## We Love 1 (Sep 18, 2008)

*All* Energy is a form of "lighting" for Our soul. Without energy we would not see (or exist)!



Our universe is His (Gods) body!

Our Galaxy (the Milky Way) is His heart!

Our solar system(s) is/are like His atom(s)!

We are a piece of Him!



We are the cycle of the universe. 

We are Earth. 

We are everything beautiful. 

We are the Alpha AND the Omega!

We are gravity!

We are the Suns infinite Energy!

We are everything!

We all become stars!




One people! One Earth! One universe! One forever!

We are Gods people.

Gods will at Gods speed.

We are one!

 One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## We Love 1 (Sep 18, 2008)

We are Gods Energy, so fill your mind, body and soul with everything beautiful! Find peace within yourself. 


 One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## We Love 1 (Sep 18, 2008)

The Big Bang (Big Bang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) was *Gods seed *to start Our *uni*verse- all encompassing!


One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## Dirty Harry (Sep 18, 2008)

I am not going to take a side on this. I don't want to argue one way or another but will post a little.
If Jesus was as said did he not give full knowledge to the people about the Earth, Germs and such? No matter if you are a believer or not, people in those times were not very advanced and could not handle it. If you could go back into mid-evil times with a bic lighter and try to explain how fire is made with compressed butane, Flint, a striker, and a pressure valve, you would be burnt at the stake as a witch.
I do believe that the Muslim religion has a very strong view of homosexuality...I think they kill them.
Trying to debunk a religion is like racing in the special Olympics, even if you win your still retarded.
Up to a point of hurting others, everyone has a right to believe in what ever God they want. Be it Buda, God, Alla, Mary Jane, or the tree in your back yard.
Be it that anyones "God" is real or not, if it stops people from running around like road warrior and taking and killing anyone or thing in their way, it sounds like a good stop gap to me.

I believe in something, and that stops me from putting a bullet into certain idiots I meet. I don't need that bad karma...but if I didn't believe in something, my @sshole list would be very VERY short in deed as I would have nothing to fear for my actions.

Without some sort of faith, you only have anarchy.


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## We Love 1 (Sep 18, 2008)

Dirty Harry said:


> Without some sort of faith, you only have anarchy.


 We love!

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## We Love 1 (Sep 18, 2008)

We are Light Energy! AMEN!!

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## Aztros (Sep 19, 2008)

So I read the first few pages of this thread and just skipped down to the end to give my take on the piece... Wow, and I don't mean that as a good wow either. I'm not a Christian though I used to be. I was actively a student in the faith for many years. Ha I was the kid growing up who went to church three times a week, missions trips every summer, practiced abstinence, and was planning on becoming a youth pastor. Though I no longer believe in God, or rather "religion" would be the better word, I still have a profound respect for what it has done in our society. It creates stability for those people who need to know there is something more beyond our mortal world. It gives people perspective and understanding for why things happen. If they want to be blinded by their own ignorance so be it. You ranting or rather you posting someone elses rant, shows me that you are just as evangelistic in you're approach to prove chriatianity wrong as christians are in trying to spread the word of God. Everybody in this God damn world is annoying. You can't stick it on "christians" or any other religion for that matter. You can only hold those accountable as individuals... I have become a very judgmental person because I've realized that so many people in this world are ignorant idiots. That goes for Christians, that goes for anybody. The article more than anything seemed like a high school kid thought it up by the way it was written. I think the kid must have gotten stoned with a bunch of buddies and started talking religion and philosophy. All of a sudden because he had this conversation he is some sort of expert without doing any research putting thought into why things are said the way they are digesting the material, understanding it, and interpreting it for himself. Doesn't sound like he was "Thinking for himself" to me at all. I'm not saying the arguments aren't valid, I've heard almost everything stated before only it was better articulated and gave a much more tasteful approach. I'm just saying that the article itself lacked structure and displayed ignorance.


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## We Love 1 (Sep 19, 2008)

Aztros said:


> I'm not a Christian though I used to be. I was actively a student in the faith for many years.


The same thing happened to We the first time after I watched the movie Zeitgeist. I didn't have much faith either, until roughly one month ago. Now I know how smart the Egyptians (and most of the other older religions) were. They surely knew a thing or two, just look at the pyramids. 

I used to have another name on RIU when I first joined, it was "LiveAndLetLive". When I had that name, I didn't want to indicate I was growing Herb because I thought it was unjust because growing was illegal. I switched it to "We TarDed" because I only planned on asking a few questions, but I stuck with it, until they "killed" me. 

Everything is beautiful with faith!
One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## Diabolic (Sep 19, 2008)

*We love 1 stop preaching the big bang was just a theory Faith is as ignorant as athiesm both sides are just Sophism stop picking sides and be independent this isn't a trend or a fashion this is my life and my passion.*


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## Aztros (Sep 19, 2008)

Huh? You quoted me and I hardly understood what you were trying to say... I won't have an awakening moment and suddenly come back to Jesus. I gave up on religion a long time ago. Even if I wanted to reclaim Christianity again and give my life to God I couldn't. According to Christianity God is all powerful and all knowing... He would know that I have a solid foundation of opinions about religion that I can't change. Even if I wanted to hold onto something like religion because I fell apart as a person I couldn't. You know that saying ignorance is bliss? I was ignorant to so much at one point in my life. Once I opened my eyes and started thinking for myself I slowly began to step out of the box of Christianity and formulate my OWN opinions that are a much more solid foundation than any religion or person could ever provide. Now that I feel I am no longer ignorant, I don't see how I could ever be dupped into believing something I feel is there for people who lack stability and need an explanation for why things are the way they are and what will happen after they die. Nobody know's for sure why we are here or what our purpose is. In all honesty I just don't give a fuck. Some things I truly believe we just aren't supposed to know. I find beauty in the little things life shows me day to day. I live my life as a morally just person because personally I feel like my world is brighter and runs smoother. Relax and remember that if you worry too much about the future you fail to see the beauty simple moments can bring to your life.


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## We Love 1 (Sep 19, 2008)

We can spin planets and populate other planets! Literally! Isn't faith Great!

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~



Aztros said:


> Huh?


"We" just know that Jesus died for Our Sins, and every new day you can be saved again!

Only He is infallible!

Your body is your temple! Our body!

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~



We have infinite possibilities once We open up Our mind up to possibilities! 

We are Our environment! 



One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~



Any number divided by Zero equals infinity! Become a Zero!



One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~

Why was we'ed* illegal? 

*(we would) I'm don't think children should smoke!


One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~

We should start planting on the moon! We can do it! Lets spin it!

We should evaporate Our salt water in big "distillers"- that use the Suns energy*- to collect fresh water to irrigate the Earth or other planets. That way We don't have to worry about rising water levels! (When transporting water over long distances, it might be better if broken down into Hydrogen and Oxygen.) 

Add vitamins to the water and not fluoride! I hope I am painting a good picture! 

*(Collect the runoff water)

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~



Carbon Dioxide is not a pollutant, its the building blocks of life! 

Atmospheres regulate a planets temperature.



One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## slu2 (Sep 20, 2008)

I'm pretty surprised at how many avid Christians smoke/grow ganja.

Your fellow parishioners would probably crucify YOU if they ever found out, lol!


Some may. Most are more conscious than that.

I run a website dedicated to Christians who are Cannabis friendly.

One of my pastors condemned me (practically) for it. And another pastor (my favorite of all time pastors always), told me endearing stories of his father who smoked.

The Bible does not conflict with Cannabis usage though, quite the contrary.


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## We Love 1 (Sep 20, 2008)

slu2 said:


> Your fellow parishioners would probably crucify YOU if they ever found out, lol!


They already "killed" We! We're still here, and will be forever!

I believe Jesus died for Our sins, so We are saved! YOU just need to believe!




slu2 said:


> The Bible does not conflict with Cannabis usage though, quite the contrary.






One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## We Love 1 (Sep 21, 2008)

Its been something like this, except I've been growing Herb! You guys have no idea what my life has been like! No guns though, just ~peace~! I don't believe We are against machines, but rather Evil!








Neo (The Matrix - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

The character *Neo* lives in the world of the Matrix, an illusory construct in which humans are neurally connected to a gigantic computer system which simulates the world of the late 20th century. Those who live their entire lives connected to the Matrix are unaware that their reality is not in fact real, nor that there is a human rebellion by the few 'free' humans in the city of WE. From time to time, individuals are freed from the Matrix, a risky and complex operation. There is a legend or *prophecy *amongst free humans (which some believe and others scorn) that there is a human who, when connected to the Matrix, can override its computer-created simulated rules, and perceive and manipulate its code directly, and thus seemingly, within the simulated reality of the Matrix, they would appear to be able to perform miracles. This person is called in legend, "The One." His or her discovery is the subject of a lifelong quest by Morpheus, an admired ship's captain of Gods fleet, assisted by Trinity and the rest of his crew. It is said in legend that The One will bring the perpetual war between Man and Machine to an end.


When the nature of the Matrix is revealed to him, Neo becomes part of the human resistance and he is revealed to be 'The One'. The Matrix film trilogy explores his abilities as The One to manipulate his computer-simulated reality to his will, and his messianic mission as the savior of mankind.
The word 'Neo' is an anagram not only of the word 'one,' but also for 'eon'. Neo is also Greek for 'new,' suggesting messianic overtones for his mission in the Matrix. In Gnosticism eon's, or aeon's, is a kind of superhuman being with supernatural powers.



*"Anderson"* is one amongst billions of humans asleep, neurally connected to the Matrix, unaware that the world he lives in is anything other than it appears. In this simulated world, he lives a double life.*In his legitimate activities, he is a quiet Herb grower so he could try and pay off his IRS taxes, at his house in ME. *Anderson is also a computer hacker who penetrates computer systems illicitly and steals information, under his hacker alias "Neo". During his time as a hacker, Anderson has learned about something known only as "The Matrix." It is described by Morpheus as a vague notion that Neo has felt his whole life; "there is something wrong with the world."

Refusing to co-operate with the agents, he has an electronic bug implanted within his Matrix-simulated body, so that his actions can be tracked and those seeking to make contact from the free world can be traced and destroyed. However, they have underestimated his importance. He is contacted by Trinity, freed from the bug.






Aeon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The word _*aeon*_, also spelled _*eon*_ or _*æon*_, means "age", "forever" or "for eternity".


End time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


*End of days* are the eschatological writings in the three Abrahamic religions and in doomsday scenarios in various other non-Abrahamic religions. In Abrahamic religions, End times are often depicted as a time of tribulation that precedes the appearance or return of the Messiah, a person who will usher in the Kingdom of God and bring an end to suffering and evil. Various other religions also have eschatological beliefs associated with turning and redemption.

Second Coming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We means Yes, in French!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh



One = neO (Did I tell you guys that I was a fisherman?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh88yjHuc6I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh8OyHiyYAk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYymilYJzwM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezab0vRXpXM&feature=related

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## Mr. Maryjane (Sep 21, 2008)

I read 1 paragraph of it, and realized they are talking about the preachy christains. just another form of prejudice. don't like what a portion of a group does, so they think the whole groups like that. it's bullshit. not all chritians are like that. I ain't like that.


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## slu2 (Sep 22, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> Anyone who lives in the United States knows what they are!


 
Sadly most do not. Most can not tell you when Isaiah (one of the most notable prophets from the Bible) lived, or what his message was.

Most can not tell you about Jesus, that he was known as a "winebibber" who frequently drank with so-called heathens or so-called "low-lifes", such as prostitutes and such. Who might even join us stoners for a session if He were on earth with us. Jesus didn't condemn like SOME modern day "Christians" do. That is a human trait not a Jesus trait.

Most can not tell you about the creation as accounted for in Genesis. They bring out teachings about a 6000 year old earth, which is found no where in the Bible. They tell you about a 6 day creation, yet make no reference to several passages in the Bible that clearly state that God's time is much different than ours. 
In verse particularly in Proverbs that says 1 day with God is like a 1000 years to us. (notice the term "like". Meaning, not literally, but it would be like a thousand years to us even though non of us have lived that long. It's just a non-literal comparison).. 


Many of these people do not spend much time learning what they fight so hard against, or are so offended by. And for that matter, so-called "Christians" who don't know squat about their Bible, and only listen to what their right-wing nut-job leaders tell them about gay marriage and marijuana, without learning for themselves what they REALLY subscribe to in Christianity.


The U.S. has become a conveinent store society, where if it doesn't come conveinently then it isn't worth while. 
That is a sick and sad truth about modern society.

That's why George Bush got re-elected. Because people follow blindly rather than testing and proving all things (as the Bible instructs in the Book of Titus).


There is nothing worse that a preacher that doesn't know his Bible, accept for a disident that knows even less than the uninformed preacher!!

If you are going to be a disident, then atleast be familiar with the subject matter. (not to any specific person, that is a blanket statement).

Peace!


BTW- Here are a couple of things that I have posted on this topic in the past:

Christianity X Cannabis

Christians for Cannabis X Cannabis


----------



## trishmybiscuits (Sep 22, 2008)

nitrobud said:


> RAmen brother...
> 
> I guess this explains why many think John McCain would be the best candidate to elect in to office. During his term most likely, he will be able to take up the White House in the sky and maybe reverse all these disasters that are happening.
> 
> LOL @ Idea of an afterlife.


This is in line with the way a lot of Christians think.


----------



## drobro23 (Sep 22, 2008)

Just because u proved one thing does not mean that you disproved another.


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## We Love 1 (Sep 22, 2008)

drobro23 said:


> Just because u proved one thing does not mean that you disproved another.


We just unified the *uni*verse! We one!

We are accelerating light Energy! We are God matter! AMEN! 

(A sideways eight is an infinity sign. 8 )

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## UnderPhire (Sep 22, 2008)

honestly i agree 100% with this article. depending on the time and location of your birth you may have been brought up to warship the sun, and in that situation i'm sure you would rep the hell out of it. -peace


----------



## mahlye (Sep 22, 2008)

I feel that any intelligent human being knows that they cannot debunk Christianity in it's entirety; rather a critical thinker approaches the Bible and deciphers truth from fiction. because really - the Bible is not all fiction and it's not all truth. can we agree that Jesus was a real person? probably. not that he was the son of God or that he performed miracles in the volumes described in the Bible. Christianity is the faith that Jesus is the savior of mankind...that cannot be proven nor can it be proved false. even stephen hawkins approached the Bible this same way.


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## We Love 1 (Sep 23, 2008)

UnderPhire said:


> honestly i agree 100% with this article. depending on the time and location of your birth you may have been brought up to warship the sun, and in that situation i'm sure you would rep the hell out of it. -peace


Our Father IS the Sun! Its He who brings life, brother!


We are alive!


We are positive energy!


We, the people, found God!


We are humans!


We are Energy!


We are born again!


We matter!


We listen and hear all beautiful music!


We are beautiful music!


We are Angels!


We are everything positive!


(We are going to the new age with the positive power of Angels)

8 ) = Leo


All things (We) are One Energy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KylRobclD4k
  
One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## We Love 1 (Sep 23, 2008)

*"Waiting On The World To Change"*

Me and all my friends 
We're all misunderstood 
They say we stand for nothing and 
There's no way we ever could 

Now we see everything that's going wrong 
With the world and those who lead it 
We just feel like we don't have the means 
To rise above and beat it 

So we keep waiting 
Waiting on the world to change 
We keep on waiting 
Waiting on the world to change 

It's hard to beat the system 
When we're standing at a distance 
So we keep waiting 
Waiting on the world to change 

Now if we had the power 
To bring our neighbors home from war 
They would have never missed a Christmas 
No more ribbons on their door 
And when you trust your television 
What you get is what you got 
Cause when they own the information, oh 
They can bend it all they want 

That's why we're waiting 
Waiting on the world to change 
We keep on waiting 
Waiting on the world to change 

It's not that we don't care, 
We just know that the fight ain't fair 
So we keep on waiting 
Waiting on the world to change 

And we're still waiting 
Waiting on the world to change 
We keep on waiting waiting on the world to change 
One day our generation 
Is gonna rule the population 
So we keep on waiting 
Waiting on the world to change 

We keep on waiting 
Waiting on the world to change

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPOBMzMTP4U


One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!

RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## slu2 (Sep 24, 2008)

We Love 1, Im not sure what your getting at. Or what it has to do with Christianity pro or con.

Can you give me some insight with your own words? Im slightly curious.

Song lyrics? Huh?!


----------



## mrlucky06 (Sep 24, 2008)

well all i have to say is he dont know shit, first off the bible was written by man not jesus, so nobody knows exactly every thing that was said or taught, second who said god or heaven for that matter live by the same time frames as us?One second here could be different up there, 3rd the bible states that the world has 3 earth ages which we are currently in the second dinosaurs lived in the first so get your facts straight, and last religion is based on faith, so yes i believe that something or someone greater then myself made earth and id much rather belive in that then your dumb ass self who said christians are spreading hate, while in the mean time you took all that time to talk shit about them..kinda hipocritcal dont u think?


----------



## SEF (Sep 25, 2008)

I did not read the article, mainly because I don't need to. I don't believe in religion, but I do believe in God. Who says you need to be a catholic or a christian or any other fucking form of Catholicism to believe in a higher power? I believe that God and Jesus are humble dudes. I don't think they want us worshiping them, that's a little fucked up and in my opinion thought up by the Catholics to rake in our money. 

Go ahead and debunk christianity, go ahead and be agnostic or atheist, who's gonna care? Only you. 

As Buddha once said: "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."


----------



## Gravtronics (Sep 25, 2008)

THIS THREAD SUCKS, THE PERSON WHO POSTED THIS THREAD SUCKS, FUCKING ZEITGEIST IS A BETTER SHOT AT DEBUNKING ANYTHING THEN THAT PITIFUL ESSAY OF BLAH BLAH BULLSHIT THAT A FART BRAIN COULD THINK UP. BELIEVE IN WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU WANT BUT DONT TRY TO DEBUNK SOMETHING WITH NOTHING. BRING UP THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS IF ANYTHING. GEEESHHHH.


----------



## We Love 1 (Sep 26, 2008)

slu2 said:


> We Love 1, Im not sure what your getting at. Or what it has to do with Christianity pro or con.


We've been trying to "wake" people up for a while! Now We know why We were so persistant at it. I'm pro Christianity, and pro ANY religion that can accept that *Jesus died for Our sins*, and if they believe in peace, love and the ultimate connection We all have together- God, Our Sun! We all come from the same rays of Sunshine! Under the same Star!



Who do you believe? (I know most of you have seen this before.)

The MainSream Media(MSM) and gov't. "The kids need the fluoride in the tap water" YouTube - Notebook: Bottled Water 

Or scientists and doctors? 
YouTube - Professional Perspectives: Fluoride in Tap Water
YouTube - Fluoride Poisoning
YouTube - Dangers of Fluoride

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________

YouTube - If You're an American you should see THIS! for real

YouTube - Alex Jones Predicts 911

YouTube - WTC 7 - Pull It By Larry Silverstein

YouTube - Here's something the government didn't want you to see

YouTube - FOX-5 Reports 9/11/01: WTC-7 Collapsed Before Actual Event

YouTube - 911 WTC Basement Explosions video and photographic proof

YouTube - Dick Cheney Exposed! - Excellent TV Doc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chXjC...eature=related

Richard Gage, AIA, Architect - "How The Towers Fell" - Complete 2 Hour Presentation | 911blogger.com

(Zeitgeist)
Zeitgeist - The Movie

(America; Freedom to Fascism)
America: Freedom to Fascism - Director's Authorized Version

(Ring of Power)
Ring of Power - Parts 1-5 - Sprword.com
Ring of Power - Parts 6-10 - Sprword.com


(The Money Masters) 
The Money Masters - Part 1 of 2
The Money Masters - Part 2 of 2

(Esoteric Agenda)
Esoteric Agenda - Sprword.com

(End Game)
ENDGAME- ALEX JONES - Blueprint for Global Enslavement

(The Great Global Warming Swindle)
The Great Global Warming Swindle - Channel: UKUFO on LiveVideo.com

After you educate yourself with these links you can clearly see that the media and gov't are sleeping together. You should also be aware that the media is trying to make us hate Iran (just like Iraq) by telling us all the lies in the corrupt propaganda. The MSM (MainStream Media) is owned by Zionist Jews and hence the wars in the middle east because of difference in religion and corrupt politics. 

YouTube - Plans Against Dissidents "*A widespread awakening is taking place. Especially,the truth about 911, and the reasons for the Iraq war are unfolding..... Operation- Garden Plot"*


Now We have a better idea of who We are, and what Our intentions have been! We want to live in a better world, but it takes people(You and Your friends) educating theirselves and others, than the sky is the limit! 

(The Rothschild family has been impeding Our progression for a while. The Rothschild family has been the culprit for most recent wars, trying to install central banks so they can enslave We, the people. If I'm not wrong, the last two countries whom were *forced* central banks were IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN! The Rothschild family and its central banks have made all the mess for Us because they don't have to deal with all the debt they put Our country in, AND they get to buy up cheap (forclosed) properties and buisness just like they did in the great depression for pennies on the dollar. There are *only 5 countries* *without *central banks, two of them are Iran and N. Korea, go figure! The Rothschild family (and its cronies) has made Us slaves to the system! Money should be brought into circulation by public works, i.e., schools, hospitals, and any other misc public services.) 

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## We Love 1 (Sep 26, 2008)

We just read an introduction to TAO! We just had a profound conversation with Our cousin (Peter G.) and he recommended that I study upon Tao because He believes We are living in It- Tao. Which I believe is the Body of Christ! (Edit-This is almost exactly how (I) We have been feeling. What an interesting time to start learning about it, (I) We just got introduced to Tao a couple days ago.)

"Following Tao means following a living path. It is a way of life that sustains you, guides you, and leads you to innumerable rich experiences. It is a spiritual path of joy and insight, freedom and profundity.

Tao is everwhere. It is literally the movement of all life. It is endless and flows in all directions. Since Tao is the total ongoing process of the universe, it makes sense to go along with it. If we sim in a river, we should make use of its current.

The study of Tao originated in China; its history spands thousands of years. Its methods, doctrines, and practices have evolved into a sprawling and complicated system that cannot be completely grasped even with a lifetime of study. Some individuals still try. Initiates into religion Taoism, having both the calling and the opportunity, follow and arduous and devout life. But Tao flows for ordinary people and ascitics alike. After all, everyone is faced with the same struggles, the sun rises and sets on all of us, the seasons change for everyone, everyone ages. Now matter who we are, the process of Tao affects us. The only question is whether we become aware of it and live in accord with it.

We all can live a life according to the principles of Tao, and we need not defer our study until some future time when we think we can enter into isolation solely for spiritual inquiry. There is nothing we do that is not part of Tao. All it takes to begin living a life in harmony with Tao is a commitment to ongoing awareness. After that there is only the thrilling process of learning more and more about Tao. 

*Here are some of the special qualities of those who follow Tao:*

*Simplicity*: Those who follow Tao keep life simple. They serve their energies; they are content with what they have. Since they don't hanker after the dazzling goals of others who are ambitious, they are able to maintain their equilibrum. 

*Sensitivity:* Those who follow Tao are observant of others, avoid the aggressive, and help those in need. They love nature and spend time in the wilderness learning from the seasons, studying animals, and absorbing the lessons of natures creativity. Nature is not wholly synonymous with Tao, but it is completely a part of Tao and thus a perfect way to glimpse Tao.

*Flexibility:* This is the aspect of Tao people of other disciplines often have the most trouble accepting. Since Tao holds that everything in the world is relative, it does not espouse any absolutes. Followers of Tao rarely rule anything out, because they believe any choice they make is dependent upon circumstance rather than preconceived notions. 

*Independence:* Those whol follow Tao seldom care about society's dictates, fads, trends, or common morality. They find these too limited, too imperfect, and too petty. Its not that those who follow Tao are immoral. It is just that they act from a far more profound level of the spirit. 

*Focused:* Those who follow Tao learn an inner direction in their lives. They accept who they are, and they first ascertain and then accept the details of their lives. They take advantage of who they are and do not try to become someone they are not. They accept that they were born, they accept that they will die, and they take the distance traveled between those two points as their personal path. They accept that each stage of their lives has certain advantages and disadvantages, and they set out to work with those advantages. 

*Cultivated:* Since a life of Tao is one of simplicity, obersvation, and action, people strive to refine themselves in order to follow Tao more perfectly.

*Disciplined:* Those who follow Tao are disciplined. This discipline is not a harsh structure imposed upon ones personality, but the taking of orderly actions toward specific goals. That requires concentration of the highest order. 

*Joyous*: Once one gains Tao, there is absolutely not doubt about it. Its like seeing a god, or paradise: no matter what anyone says or does, the experience cannot be erased. So too is it with those who have seen Tao and who live withing its flow: They have a joyous sense of the deepest sustenance. They feel directly conected with the source of life. They do not fear tyranny, because no tyrant could ever destroy their faith in Tao. They do not fear poverty, because Tao bring them wealth overflowing. They do not fear loneliness, because Tao surrounds them constantly. They do not fear death, because they know in Tao there is no death."

The Chinese sure knew their roots. (In my honest and humble opinion) Tao is the study of God! God is Tao! Replace the word "Tao" for "God" and than reread the passage!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BSiZQqlg5E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwLHL-ZgP9k&feature=user

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG_GbIIhKms&feature=user

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jcvtE027j0&feature=user

Buddha too, was very intelligent!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTsb-woP3jI

One God forever!
One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## We Love 1 (Sep 27, 2008)

We (I) just moved from ME to Boston Ma. I'm working as a carpenter at the moment. 

YouTube - Augustana - Boston (Album version)

In the light of the sun, is there anyone? Oh it has begun...
Oh dear you look so lost, eyes are red and tears are shed,
This world you must've crossed... you said...​ 
You don't know me, you don't even care, oh yeah,
She said
You don't know me, and you don't wear my chains... oh yeah,​ 
Essential yet appealed, carry all your thoughts across
An open field,
When flowers gaze at you... they're not the only ones who cry
When they see you
You said...​ 
You don't know me, you don't even care, oh yeah,
She said
You don't know me, and you don't wear my chains... oh yeah,​ 
She said I think I'll go to Boston...
I think I'll start a new life,
I think I'll start it over, where no one knows my name,
I'll get out of California, I'm tired of the weather,
I think I'll get a lover and fly em out to Spain...
I think I'll go to Boston,
I think that I'm just tired
I think I need a new town, to leave this all behind...
I think I need a sunrise, I'm tired of the sunset,
I hear it's nice in the Summer, some snow would be nice... oh yeah,​ 
You don't know me, you don't even care...​ 
Boston... where no one knows my name... yeah
Where no one knows my name...
Where no one knows my name...
Yeah Boston...
Where no one knows my name.​ 


Everything is possible with God Our Sun! The Sun has produced EVERYTHING for Us! 

*8 )*

*Does anyone know why they would have killed Jesus? And why would they lie about it too? It goes to show what the Evil of the world looks like! *

*We have been anointed with His information, so now We must spread the Word! *

*We are Gods Farmers! *

*God has Not causes anything evil! Nature is not evil, but evil are certain people unless they repent and are penatant before God!* 

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## chuckbane (Sep 27, 2008)

God doesnt exist because there is no proof of "his" existence. Simple as that.

Who want to argue that? Prophecy? We love 1?

I dont give a shit if you claim to smoke pot. That means nothing, you are still a religious piece of trash trying to force your hate and ignorance down the throats of free humans.

Watch it, i dont take great to these types


----------



## We Love 1 (Sep 27, 2008)

chuckbane said:


> God doesnt exist because there is no proof of "his" existence. Simple as that.
> 
> Who want to argue that? Prophecy? We love 1?
> 
> ...


It sounds like We need some Jah Love!

YouTube - Bob Marley on Herb and Prohibition

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HMlbtksV1o&feature=related


YouTube - RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story (Part 1 of 7)

YouTube - RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story (Part 2 of 7)

YouTube - RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story (Part 3 of 7)

YouTube - RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story (Part 4 of 7)

YouTube - RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story (Part 5 of 7)

YouTube - RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story (Part 6 of 7)

YouTube - RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story (Part 7 of 7)




YouTube - Grow more pot! Part 1

YouTube - Grow more pot! Part 2



YouTube - Coldplay - Viva La Vida

"I used to rule the world
Seas would rise when I gave the word
Now in the morning I sleep alone
Sweep the streets I used to own

I used to roll the dice
Feel the fear in my enemy's eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:
*"Now the old king is dead! Long live the king!"*

One minute I held the key
Next the walls were closed on me
And I discovered that my castles stand
Upon pillars of salt and pillars of sand

I hear Jerusalem bells a ringing
Roman Cavalry choirs are singing
*Be my mirror my sword and shield*
*My missionaries in a foreign field*
For some reason I can't explain
Once you go there was never, never an honest word
That was when I ruled the world
(Ohhh)

It was the wicked and wild wind
Blew down the doors to let me in.
Shattered windows and the sound of drums
People couldn't believe what I'd become

Revolutionaries wait
For my head on a silver plate
Just a puppet on a lonely string
Oh who would ever want to be king?

I hear Jerusalem bells a ringing
Roman Cavalry choirs are singing
*Be my mirror my sword and shield*
*My missionaries in a foreign field*
For some reason I can't explain
I know Saint Peter won't call my name
Never an honest word
But that was when I ruled the world
(Ohhhhh Ohhh Ohhh)

I hear Jerusalem bells a ringing
Roman Cavalry choirs are singing
Be my mirror my sword and shield
My missionaries in a foreign field
For some reason I can't explain
I know Saint Peter won't call my name
Never an honest word
But that was when I ruled the world
Oooooh Oooooh Oooooh"

Now We rule the World!

YouTube - Official Jason Mraz - I'm Yours video

"Well uh you dawned on me and you bet I felt it 
I tried to be chill but you're so hot that I melted 
I fell right through the cracks 
And now I'm trying to get back 

Before the cool done run out 
I'll be giving it my bestest 
*Nothing's going to stop me but divine intervention *
I reckon it's again my turn to win some or learn some 

But I won't hesitate no more, no more 
It cannot wait, I'm yours 

*Well open up your mind and see like me *
*Open up your plans and damn you're free *
*Look into your heart and you'll find love love love love *

*Listen to the music of the moment people dance and sing *
*Were just one big family *
*And it's our God-forsaken right to be loved love loved love love *

So I won't hesitate no more, no more 
It cannot wait I'm sure 
There's no need to complicate 
Our time is short 
This is our fate, I'm yours 

*Scat* 

Do you want to come on, and scoot/schooch 
On closer dear, and I will nibble your ear 

*oh oh oh* 

I've been spending way too long checking my tongue in the mirror 
And bending over backwards just to try to see it clearer 
But my breath fogged up the glass 
And so I drew a new face and laughed 

*I guess what I'll be saying is there ain't no better reason *
*To rid yourself of vanities and just go with the seasons *
*It's what WE aim to do *
*Our name is Our virtue *

But I won't hesitate no more, no more 
It cannot wait I'm sure 
There's no need to complicate 
Our time is short 
It can not wait, I'm yours 

*Well open up your mind and see like me *
*Open up your plans and damn you're free *
*Look into your heart and you'll find the sky is yours *
So please don't, please don't, please don't 
There's no need to complicate 
Cause our time is short 
This is, this is, this is our fate, I'm yours"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STPVvd_II08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyzPtjIP2eo&feature=related

*Yahweh lyrics*

"Take these shoes
Click clacking down some dead end street
Take these shoes
And make them fit
Take this shirt
Polyester white trash made in nowhere
Take this shirt
And make it clean, clean
Take this soul
Stranded in some skin and bones
Take this soul
And make it sing

*Yahweh, Yahweh*
*Always pain before a child is born*
*Yahweh, Yahweh*
*Still I'm waiting for the dawn*

Take these hands
Teach them what to carry
Take these hands
Don't make a fist
Take this mouth
So quick to criticise
Take this mouth
Give it a kiss

*Yahweh, Yahweh*
*Always pain before a child is born*
*Yahweh, Yahweh*
*Still I'm waiting for the dawn*

*Still waiting for the dawn, the sun is coming up*
*The sun is coming up on the ocean*
*This love is like a drop in the ocean*
*This love is like a drop in the ocean*

*Yahweh, Yahweh*
*Always pain before a child is born*
*Yahweh, tell me now*
*Why the dark before the dawn?*

Take this city
A city should be shining on a hill
Take this city
If it be your will
What no man can own, no man can take
Take this heart
Take this heart
Take this heart
And make it break"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qxP5yEMk3k

*Lyrics to Signature Of Divine (Yahweh)* :

"Cathedrals have tried in vain
To show the image of your face.
But we are, by your design,
The signature of divine.

We'll always sing your name.
Forever and today.

Yahweh, Yahweh...
Great is your glory when you go before me
Oh, we sing...
Holy, Holy...
Your ways are lovely. So high above me.
Yahweh

The fortunes of kings and queens
Are wasted chasing what we've seen.
Cause we are, by your reprieve,
The beauty framed by your suffering.

We'll always sing your name.
Forever and today.

Yahweh, Yahweh...
Great is your glory when you go before me
Oh, we sing...
Holy, Holy...
Your ways are lovely. So high above me.
Yahweh

Take me, and pull me through.
Cause I can't move without you.
I won't leave you alone, you say.
It will be okay.

Yahweh, Yahweh...
Great is your glory when you go before me
Oh, we sing...
Holy, Holy...
Your ways are lovely. So high above me.
Yahweh.
Yahweh, Yahweh...
Great is your glory when you go before me
Oh, we sing...
Holy, Holy...
Your ways are lovely. So high above me.
Yahweh

Ancient of Days...
Yahweh!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii0euH1yWX8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-PaaCRE69Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GerX3e0YZZ0



One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## chuckbane (Sep 27, 2008)

We Love 1 said:


> It sounds like you need some Jah Love!


I dont need anyone. I have my own reasoning and the best love their is in the world. No god could EVER give me that.




We Love 1 said:


> YouTube - Bob Marley on Herb and Prohibition


why do you put this? so we think you are cool?
i dont buy this shit whore, Bob marley did not follow your religion at all. what do you think of them bananas whore?

and by whore i mean a religion whore. whore isnt even a dirty enough word for what you are.

im still waiting for one of you bible thumpers to answer my stuff... neeed i repeat myself?


----------



## We Love 1 (Sep 28, 2008)

chuckbane said:


> I dont need anyone.


We had that attitude too, before We broke down and realized the Truth! God loves Us but He needs Us to first become "aware"! The seed will grow with faith. (He gave Us *free will*!)

*We a**re living in the year 2008 A.D*., which is relative to when *Jesus was born. *

A.D- in the year of the Lord; *since Christ was born*:


Realize that We are living in a "pool" of His Energy! Energy and mass are the different forms of Gods matter(s) or Light Energy- Amen!

*We all come from Gods seed, known as "The Big Bang"!* Therefor, We are ALL a part of Him and We! So We can call Our creator any name, call it God, Allah, YahWeh, or anything else. They are all the same! We just advanced globally with the internet! Now We can expand Our minds globally as well. Put the pieces together with We! Into the heavens, next!

YouTube - Matt Nathanson "Come on Get Higher"


"I miss the sound of your voice
And I miss the rush of your skin
And I miss the still of the silence
As you breathe out and I breathe in
If I could walk on water
If I could tell you what's next
I'd make you believe
I'd make you forget
So come on, get higher, loosen my lips
Faith and desire and the swing of your hips
Just pull me down hard
And drown me in love
So come on, get higher, loosen my lips
Faith and desire and the swing of your hips
Just pull me down hard
And drown me in love
I miss the sound of your voice
Loudest thing in my head
And I ache to remember
All the violent, sweet
Perfect words that you said
If I could walk on water
If I could tell you what's next
I'd make you believe
I'd make you forget
So come on, get higher, loosen my lips
Faith and desire and the swing of your hips
Just pull me down hard
And drown me in love
So come on, get higher, loosen my lips
Faith and desire and the swing of your hips
Just pull me down hard
And drown me in love
I miss the pull of your heart
I tasted the sparks on your tongue
I see angels and devils
And God, when you come on
Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on
Sing sha la la la
Sing sha la la la la
So come on, get higher, loosen my lips
Faith and desire and the swing of your hips
Just pull me down hard
And drown me in love
So come on, get higher, loosen my lips
Faith and desire and the swing of your hips
Just pull me down hard
And drown me, drown me in love
It's all wrong, it's all wrong
It's all wrong, it's so right
So come on, get higher
So come on and get higher
'Cause everything works, love
Everything works in your arms"

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## Wikidbchofthewst (Sep 28, 2008)

chuckbane said:


> im still waiting for one of you bible thumpers to answer my stuff... neeed i repeat myself?


What was your question? I haven't read this thread in a long time, and I don't feel like going back and looking


----------



## trishmybiscuits (Sep 30, 2008)

drobro23 said:


> Just because u proved one thing does not mean that you disproved another.


How many questions have to be raised about Christianity's foundations before people get the point?


----------



## We Love 1 (Sep 30, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> How many questions have to be raised about Christianity's foundations before people get the point?


 
https://www.rollitup.org/politics/80188-earth-growing.html

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## CaNNaBiZNeSS (Sep 30, 2008)

pathetic.........................................................................................................................................................................................A
it really is to see human nature isn't it? your a fucking idiot for actually believing more than 1 sentenc in that whole article, and anyone else should be killed off as they're minds have no value in the progress of human society,, your part of the problem( we all are) dumb bitch, die in doubt.

and i will actually debate the piece without even finishing it, i get the whole message from the first 4 paragraphs, this guy is a fucking ignorant fuck.


The first issue that I have with Christianity is if Jesus Christ was the son of God then why didn't he tell the people during his time that the Earth was round and that it orbited the sun? It isn't unreasonable to expect that the son of the being who supposedly created the solar system would have known that. Why didn't Jesus tell people that there were huge continents on the other side of the planet that were inhabited by tens of thousands of people? Why didn't Jesus tell his followers about the things that make people sick? Wasn't healing supposed to be one of his things? Well, why didn't he tell people about viruses and bacteria? The reason, of course, is because Jesus obviously knew little about the natural world. 

thats all i have to read? WHAT A FUCKING DOUCHE BAG, anyone with any knowlegde or understanding of OUR NATURE and the way we have acted and relayed our selfishness and greed throughout the years, 

first of all this jackass doesnt even take into account what his antireligion says(gradual evolutionary change) so hes a naive or self blinding bitch.( viruses and bacteria? continents? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm lets think about this moron, our world has been changing ever since its creation, which if you think was an accident go outside on a nice day and look at the harmony that we live in, and we destroy. think it was an accident and there was no plan? dumb bitch. 99% of the "bad things" in this world are our fault, we created, and the rest are tests to see if we can actually make it thru, and its obvious we cant handle it.

What a moron, there was only one continent, and it could have been at any point in between there and now when the bibles stories take place, i am in no way a regular christian, i have my own relationship with god and live by the rules that were instilled on and to the first human, not ones that matter now and we have made up to be important in this bullshit society and fucked of civlization we call our species.

and my last point, is if we were told everything and did not have to do anything on our own, then we wouldnt have a chance to fuck up like we have, in which case there would be no point to reward everyone of the fuckups with the same grant as the ones who stayed faithful in times of doubt. because thats what its all about. Believing in something that was told time ago, but we have altered filtered interpreted and biased along the way because everything we touch becomes infected with the virus known as contact with mankind and becomes corrupted and used. 

anyone who can live their life thinkin it has nothing after the end and has no real purpose is a tool that has let "human logic" completely fuck your existence, and should enjoy every last day, cause you wont have anythign after, because thats what you believe and thats what youll get. You think your only purpose is to get money, fuck girls have cars and a balling house? no thats the least important shit in the world and in my mind will always be.


----------



## CaNNaBiZNeSS (Sep 30, 2008)

and i in no way want to force feed my views down anyiones throat, if you cant get it on your own then enjoy a complete blackout when you die, i dont care about you, or if you parents miss you, i dont know you and dont give a fuck about you, you are meaningless and so am i, but i am important to me and thats it, dumbass. You are so egotistical to think anyone who actually trusted their beliefs would just try and force feed it down your throat, no body should care bout you, because you are the one im never gonna be and will get nothing, there has to be fucks like you that dont believe, cause if everyone did(and we did at one time trust) we would just fuck up again and start to bias and interpret and change it and deter from the path, religion is worse to argue about thatn politics, because now i dont like you and had a neutral view before, you are in no way going to live any meaningful life, you could be famous or rich, but you are just another drone so enjoy the day you lie on your deathbed and start to think about how insecure you are about your faith in what you think is true. You probably fear death like you could do shit about it, man your ego and how selfish and important you think you are is gonna fuck you over hard, bigtime. and you are a actually ignorant and naive enough tos ee differences and regard them in such highness between two such religions, you are a fucking moron man i hope you get killed tomorrow and you float away into purgatory or hell, im not sure which one exists (at least no hell or heaven to what you think it is, thats what we have used to relate it to ourselves, which is why we can NEVER grasp OR NEVER EVER no the whole truth, it would not work) you just think that you should know it in order to believe it, like you have to have proof, who the fuck are you to prove anything to? your a fucking human in the 2000s, let alone when the bible was written( WHICH HAS MUCH SHIT WE WROTE AND INTERPRETED SO IT CANNOT BE TAKEN AS 100% FACT)
you dont mean shit to anyone except your family, which obviously believe the same thing so whats the point, you wont see them once you die, whatever bro enjoy life its quite short, but people like you are in general allowed to live much longer, in order to come to a realization that seems so surreal.


----------



## drogrower (Oct 2, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> This one has been blistering-up the Internet. Christianity has been debunked once and for all:
> 
> The final debunking of Christianity


I put a new thread called zeitgeist up...check it out. alot is based on astrology.
Zeitgeist - The Movie


----------



## KiloBit (Oct 4, 2008)

If your going to debunk Christianity then you have to debunk them all. Religion is just another form of clan ism. The self proclaimed prophets of God want to control us. Be yourself.


----------



## We Love 1 (Oct 4, 2008)

We do not revolve around time, time revolves around We-the Sun, Gravity and basically Energy! (Time revolves around Us)


I believe *time IS space**. (Time is everything devoid of "matter", "matter" is everthing devoid of time.) Time revolves around We, the people, God matter, His Energy! We have been, and will be here- the Universe- forever because everything (We) came from Gods seed- THE CREATOR!

*(space is time)

If You only know how literal We are. I'm almost ready to fly! (Imagine how much easier life will be on the moon @ 1/6 G. Its going to be fun!  ) 

8 ) (Can you see how We see? We can spin things.) Time relvolves around Us! The stars! We comes from the stars! (*Listen* to the good music)

YouTube - Newsboys - He Reigns

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It&#8217;s the song of the redeemed[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Rising from the African plain[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It&#8217;s the song of the forgiven[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Drowning out the Amazon rain[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The song of Asian believers[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Filled with God&#8217;s holy fire[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It&#8217;s every tribe, every tongue, every nation[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A love song born of a grateful choir[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It&#8217;s all God&#8217;s children singing[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Glory, glory, hallelujah[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He reigns, He reigns[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It&#8217;s all God&#8217;s children singing[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Glory, glory, hallelujah[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He reigns, He reigns[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Let it rise about the four winds[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Caught up in the heavenly sound[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Let praises echo from the towers of cathedrals[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]To the faithful gathered underground[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Of all the songs sung from the dawn of creation[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Some were meant to persist[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Of all the bells rung from a thousand steeples[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*None rings truer than this*[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*And all the powers of darkness*[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Tremble at what they&#8217;ve just heard*[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*&#8216;Cause all the powers of darkness*[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Can&#8217;t drown out a single word*[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*When all God&#8217;s children sing out*[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Glory, glory, hallelujah*[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*He reigns, He reigns*[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*All God&#8217;s people singing*[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Glory, glory, hallelujah*[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*He reigns, He reigns*[/FONT]


God is The One who spun the planets and put the Sun in the sky for Us! Just as Us growers tend to Our plants needs(Lighting, food, care, time, Love, etc), God tends to Our needs. It was His plan from the beginning! 

Lets *irrigate the deserts with* distilled *ocean water*! Lets use this as a public project that brings money into circulation. (Lets get rid of these corrupt central banks first. We don't want the "Federal" Reserve and the IRS!) 

We want to be Pure! 
One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## We Love 1 (Oct 4, 2008)

KiloBit said:


> Be yourself.


It helps when You know where You come from!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr7wNQw12l8&feature=related

You (We) were put here for a reason!

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## KiloBit (Oct 4, 2008)

We Love 1 said:


> We do not revolve around time, time revolves around We-the Sun, Gravity and basically Energy! (Time revolves around Us)
> 
> 
> I believe *time IS space*-everything devoid of "matter". (Time is everything devoid of "matter") Time revolves around We, the people, God matter! We have been, and will be here- the Universe- forever because everything (We) came from Gods seed- THE CREATOR!
> ...


Yo brother, can you hook me up with what your smoking?


----------



## vampyroswrath (Oct 4, 2008)

We Love 1 said:


> *All* Energy is a form of "lighting" for Our soul. Without energy we would not see (or exist)!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



news flash, the suns energy is mostly hydrogen, and ummm...it aint infinite hate to tell ya, people dont run the sun, its not like we are sending people in rockets to the sun to keep it burning lol


----------



## We Love 1 (Oct 4, 2008)

KiloBit said:


> Yo brother, can you hook me up with what your smoking?


 


Everyone can grow with We. I want EVERYONE (who wants them) to have My seeds of Kindness (Herb)! 

Imagine frolicking through budding Herb fields, on the Moon while high on Life! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhgWS09e_Gk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlBAf_SKwPQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud0kaWLHEd4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wutmEjdbedE&feature=related

http://www.wibi.org/on-the-air/ 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIAdgLR1ZGw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3UWiJCZAz8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbmtjQppsao&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktPGtLI6imY

Nothing grows backwards. Plants grow towards the Sun because of the Sun. We should turn tabacco fields into Herb fields using the Suns Love (Sunshine)! 

We Love and accept EVERYONE! Empathy is a gift from God! Do You know, *He will Love Us Forever.*

8 )

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## vampyroswrath (Oct 4, 2008)

so by sunlight, are you still talking about man-made sunlight? just wanting some clarification here lol


----------



## We Love 1 (Oct 5, 2008)

vampyroswrath said:


> so by sunlight, are you still talking about man-made sunlight? just wanting some clarification here lol


They both make the plants Grow! He Is The Light! 

YouTube - Kirk Franklin - Revolution

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsgwfliQoqg&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8HgAVenbUU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyoVJfADlwo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT7x3VnrqbA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68q8y5nkdPo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MJeanAe9GQ&feature=related

We are Good Matter! We are God Matter! We (Yes) Angels! 

Becoming born again is like turning from ice to water. 

We will ride horses on the Moon! 

8 )

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## vampyroswrath (Oct 5, 2008)

no you misunderstand im talking about when you said man is the suns infinite energy, where is that proven, we cant keep the sun alive, in a few million years, it will die and so will mankind, and the sun is fueled by hydrogen, not humans, thats just sadistic man


----------



## We Love 1 (Oct 6, 2008)

The Earth stays in its place because of The Suns Energy, it pushes and pulls! 

The Solar Radiation is what pushes!



One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## vampyroswrath (Oct 6, 2008)

ok, sorry i understand, but you still havent answered my original question...


----------



## We Love 1 (Oct 7, 2008)

vampyroswrath said:


> ok, sorry i understand, but you still havent answered my original question...


Its still His same Everlasting Energy! (We eat His Energy, We ARE His Energy, EVERYTHING comes from His Suns)

As long as We believe We are living in The Body of Christ, than what is "space-time"*? How can *anything* be compared to Divinity besides the Trinity? We "matter"!

Energy = "Mass" = "Matter"

Who can be against Us when We have THE CREATOR* on Our side? Whos to say He can't turn the Earth into a Sun, at His will, someday?

I saw Him in the clouds today, at sunset! Hes watching over Us!  

*Space-time is what Our Universe is expanding through! Your taking a ride through space-time in Your We "Matter" body which IS His Energy! As the time revolves around Our Energy, "flying" *THROUGH* space-time, if You will. 

*Call Him what You will. 

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## trishmybiscuits (Oct 7, 2008)

CaNNaBiZNeSS said:


> The first issue that I have with Christianity is if Jesus Christ was the son of God then why didn't he tell the people during his time that the Earth was round and that it orbited the sun? It isn't unreasonable to expect that the son of the being who supposedly created the solar system would have known that. Why didn't Jesus tell people that there were huge continents on the other side of the planet that were inhabited by tens of thousands of people? Why didn't Jesus tell his followers about the things that make people sick? Wasn't healing supposed to be one of his things? Well, why didn't he tell people about viruses and bacteria? The reason, of course, is because Jesus obviously knew little about the natural world.
> 
> thats all i have to read? WHAT A FUCKING DOUCHE BAG, anyone with any knowlegde or understanding of OUR NATURE and the way we have acted and relayed our selfishness and greed throughout the years,


I have reservations as to whether you have the intelectual capacity to understand the essay that this thread is based on. Basically, what the author is bringing out there is that if Jesus was really who the Christians say he was, there would be some other evidence besides what the Christians claim there is. This is a very valid point. For instance, how would the people during Jesus' life have known that he wasn't just some quack walking around espousing the stuff that he did? Any run-of-the-mill quack could've went around espousing that stuff and claiming that he was the son of God. No. If Jesus was really who the Christians say he was, he would've gave some other demonstration of his ability that would've driven the point home decisively. And what the essay brings out is that he clearly did not do that! Duh?


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## SriYogananda (Oct 16, 2008)

*"The first issue that I have with Christianity is if Jesus Christ was the son of God then why didn't he tell the people during his time that the Earth was round and that it orbited the sun? It isn't unreasonable to expect that the son of the being who supposedly created the solar system would have known that. Why didn't Jesus tell people that there were huge continents on the other side of the planet that were inhabited by tens of thousands of people?*"

I find it hard to ignore the fact that you've started this same thread in a whole handful of different forums as a troll to get people to your website. Your attitude, being aggressive and contentious, is purely to get people there, whcih I think is pretty shady to be honest.

But, that aside, I think you may not be up to speed on your ancient history. The idea that people thought the world was flat at the time of Jesus is wrong:

*"...The modern belief that especially medieval **Christianity** believed in a flat earth has been referred to as *_*The Myth of the Flat Earth*_*.[1] In 1945, it was listed by the Historical Association (of Britain) as the second of 20 in a pamphlet on common errors in history.[2] Recent scholarship[3] has argued that "with extraordinary [sic] few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat" and that the prevailing view was of a spherical earth.[1]*
*Jeffrey Russell states that the modern view that people of the **Middle Ages** believed that the Earth was flat is said to have entered the popular imagination in the 19th century, thanks largely to the publication of **Washington Irving**'s fantasy The Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus in 1828...."*

This being the case, why SHOULD Jesus mention it?

You've also said that Jeusus never told anyone that there were other cultures and continents other than where he preached. Again, why should he? Trade routes have existed between people's separated by thousands of miles for at least 8,000 years. The Saharan slave route is at least 5,000 years old for example. The Romans, who Jesus was in part rebeling against, had an empire covering continents and tens of cultures. So, why should Jesus have mentioned this as a part of his sermons on religion? "Be nice to each other, love and peace and all that - and oh, BTW, did you know the earth is round??"

Get a grip Jesse. Your claim that you've finally debunked christianity is bullshit - and a selling ploy for your 'energy meditation' LOL! 

If you're going to do this, do it properly, start with wondering why Philo of Judea didn't mention Jesus if you want some real debunking. 

To everyone else, I'd do this thread the justice it deserves as a troll, delete it.

Very, very lame.
Sy


----------



## hom36rown (Oct 18, 2008)

We Love 1 said:


> Its still His same Everlasting Energy! (We eat His Energy, We ARE His Energy, EVERYTHING comes from His Suns)
> 
> As long as We believe We are living in The Body of Christ, than what is "space-time"*? How can *anything* be compared to Divinity besides the Trinity? We "matter"!
> 
> ...


I think you need to put the crack pipe down

WE ARE CRACK lol


----------



## trishmybiscuits (Oct 20, 2008)

SriYogananda said:


> *"The first issue that I have with Christianity is if Jesus Christ was the son of God then why didn't he tell the people during his time that the Earth was round and that it orbited the sun? It isn't unreasonable to expect that the son of the being who supposedly created the solar system would have known that. Why didn't Jesus tell people that there were huge continents on the other side of the planet that were inhabited by tens of thousands of people?*"
> 
> I find it hard to ignore the fact that you've started this same thread in a whole handful of different forums as a troll to get people to your website. Your attitude, being aggressive and contentious, is purely to get people there, whcih I think is pretty shady to be honest.
> 
> ...


I have no connection to the Unintimidated Press other than being an occasional visitor. I do admit that I like a lot of the things on that site but that's it. Secondly, my name isn't "Jesse." But it sounds to me like you're trying to expose someone and maybe that should be brought to the attention of the moderators.

And lastly, you have got to be the biggest hypocrite on the face of the planet. In that same post you called for this thread to be deleted. So what's wrong with that? Well, let's put it this way. At the time you made that post this thread had long since faded from the leaderboard. If you didn't dredge it back up it would've just faded off into oblivion. If you think it should deleted then why did you dredge it back up you God-damned, fuckin', wretched, stinking, dipshit, moron, hypocrite?


----------



## Gallant Reflex (Oct 25, 2008)

bunch of crap


----------



## TheBrutalTruth (Oct 25, 2008)

AverageJoe21 said:


> Thank God!


That should read, Atheism replaces Religious Terrorism with Environmentalist Terrorism.


----------



## natrone23 (Oct 25, 2008)

TheBrutalTruth said:


> That should read, Atheism replaces Religious Terrorism with Environmentalist Terrorism.


 Whats does Atheism have to with Environmentalist Terrorism?


----------



## natrone23 (Oct 25, 2008)

What do you think, before the extremist envirmentlist fire bombs the logging mill they yell "Richard Dawkins is Great" "Richard Dawkins is Great" lol gimme a break!


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## We Love 1 (Nov 30, 2008)

I have all good dreams!

We can do it! 

Would you like to know my dreams? (Its going to happen!) 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I35RApAByXM 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ledtw...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6izn...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDZ41JDQrRo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHjxO...eature=related

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## We Love 1 (Dec 1, 2008)

Instead of rockets, We should "slingshot" objects into space. Just think BIG! 

Also, why don't We harvest electricity from quartz?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz

Quartz crystals have piezoelectric properties, that is they develop an electric potential upon the application of mechanical stress. An early use of this property of quartz crystals was in phonograph pickups. One of the most common piezoelectric uses of quartz today is as a crystal oscillator. The quartz clock is a familiar device using the mineral. The resonant frequency of a quartz crystal oscillator is changed by mechanically loading it, and this principle is used for very accurate measurements of very small mass changes in the quartz crystal microbalance and in thin-film thickness monitors.


*Quartz* (from German *Quarz* (help·info)[1]) is the most abundant mineral in the Earth's continental crust (although feldspar is more common in the world as a whole).



*Gasoline is an obsolete fuel, hydrogen is the way!* Learn about it 


I believe in "aliens", its a big universe, think about it. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sofwHQejYQw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oMz8osnNXY&feature=related

We are here! 

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## trishmybiscuits (Dec 2, 2008)

TheBrutalTruth said:


> That should read, Atheism replaces Religious Terrorism with Environmentalist Terrorism.


I sincerely hope that you don't really believe that. I feel sorry for you if you really do.


----------



## We Love 1 (Dec 5, 2008)

We Love 1 said:


> Instead of rockets, We should "slingshot" objects into space. Just think BIG!


Lets shoot water to the moon 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM5yepZ21pI

Can someone just explain The Truth to me? I have many questions 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLqJGOgsGG0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnvM_YAwX4I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG9FO7JGWq4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o0jgM-wfNw&feature=related

What kind of Angel do You want to be? I choose to *be good*.

*~WeL *come~



One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~[/quote]


----------



## Microdizzey (Dec 5, 2008)

I'll fight for what's right and good no matter how evil and psychotic and powerful the other side is. 
And apparently they are extreme in all those ways. lol


----------



## Zero Pt. Zero (Dec 5, 2008)

Basic
Instructions
Before 
Leaving
Earth

Run around and act like assholes.


----------



## Tribal Geathering (Dec 5, 2008)

Should i debunk Cristmas also .

Anybody putting up there Cristmas tree then ??????? lmao 

And i always love my easter egg,s in spring . Do i have to debunk them now too lol . 

How about the Kid,s Cristmas panto .

Shit man i think some of are tradations are cool id hate to lose them .


----------



## aknight3 (Dec 5, 2008)

dude go to a house where supernatural spirits exsist, stay there one night and then we'll see what the fuck you say, ron paul is an idiot and so are his followers, WHICH is why hes not president, not saying anything is real or not real, but dont post religion is debunked and start talking about aliens and shooting stuff to the moon with slingshots, your truly an idiot sorry but reflect on what u just said, pz


----------



## aknight3 (Dec 5, 2008)

oh and btw you should learn about hydrogen, costs more natural oil to produce the hydrogen cells than its really worth, thats why we dont have water cars driving around, YOU learn about it


----------



## BobMarleySpliffs (Dec 5, 2008)

The greatest fairy tale ever told, but if you truly do believe in God 100% without fooling yourself it can be very powerful and hopeful.


----------



## Cheeser (Dec 6, 2008)

I read a good bit of this and it its unbelievable how angery the non-believers are . 

No offence (it might seem offencive)But the one,s cursing are just sounding like angery childern thats mad at there parents for some reson or other and insulting happy people that get on with the life,s The are happy with there faith the same way you should be if you believe it so much instead of cursing off people for believeing somthng 

Fair enough if you do believe or not . 

HAPPY CRISTMAS ..TRIABL G,s


----------



## We Love 1 (Dec 6, 2008)

Microdizzey said:


> I'll fight for what's right and good no matter how evil and psychotic and powerful the other side is.
> And apparently they are extreme in all those ways. lol


Same here. I'll fight for whats right too!

Power _to the people_! 



Zero Pt. Zero said:


> Basic
> Instructions
> *Before *
> *Leaving*
> *Earth*


 Lets shoot for the stars! We will surely be living on the Moon and Mars in time.



aknight3 said:


> oh and btw you should learn about hydrogen, costs more natural oil to produce the hydrogen cells than its really worth, thats why we dont have water cars driving around, YOU learn about it


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efCelx7qe_M

Also, solar panels are getting a lot cheaper and more efficent.

So We need to get hydrogen generators connected to compressors that will compress the hydrogen into scuba tanks and than connect it to Our cars. We can produce this fuel in Our own homes, just paying for the price of water and electricity. 

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## BirdTooth (Dec 6, 2008)

smartsoverambition said:


> i have no problem with athiests and i respect their beliefs but if people something teaches you to love your family, always do the right thing and do the best you can WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT?
> seriously the peole who sit and they pray in the privacy of their own home and go to church and don't bother those who don't believe and are not open to idea religion how do you think they feel?


It is natural that we should love our families, and it is great if something has inspired you to be more diligent about doing that. It is the "always do the right thing" that gets tricky. When something as vast as the Bible is used as an ultimate source of law, teaching us what that "right thing" is, there will naturally be as many different interpretations as there are readers. The problem is that not everybody takes that message of love from religion. Many, many, people use it as a tool of oppression. It gives righteousness to their malice. The message you extract is love, and that is good. Simple, internal moral philosophy could hardly do better, but it could do the same thing. Moral philosophy could not, however, be used to harm people the same way that religion can be. Do you really think that if you simply taught a child, through showing them, to love and respect their family, that they would not be able to do it without religion?



Cheeser said:


> I read a good bit of this and it its unbelievable how angry the non-believers are .
> 
> No offense (it might seem offensive)But the one's cursing are just sounding like angry children thats mad at there parents for some reason or other and insulting happy people that get on with the life's. They are happy with their faith the same way you should be if you believe it so much instead of cursing off people for believing something
> 
> Fair enough if you do believe or not .


It is easy for somebody who believes in god to be okay with people who don't. The only thing at stake is their soul, and that is their problem. Unfortunately, the athiest does not have that luxury. We all _know_ we have one life. When a person is not allowed to live theirs as they choose, based on _somebody elses_ adherence to a set of rules, then it becomes an urgent and completely unacceptable tragedy. They are swearing and angry because their countries' scientists are not allowed to pursue promising and available stem cell research to cure their diseases, for no reason other than religious sentiment. They are also swearing because any 18 year old with genitals can get married and produce children they can't care for before getting divorced, and do, while couples who have been together for 30 years can't express themselves as a legal unit, for no other reason than religious sentiment, based solely on the fact that they don't have the ability to shit more children into an already overcrowded system.


----------



## We Love 1 (Dec 8, 2008)

The Jesus LOVE REVOLUTION! 

Jesus is KING!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyfO1-zSd7M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw0d2fZ1rlo

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## We Love 1 (Dec 8, 2008)

BirdTooth said:


> . They are swearing and angry because their countries' scientists are not allowed to pursue promising and available stem cell research to cure their diseases, for no reason other than religious sentiment.
> 
> based solely on the fact that they don't have the ability to shit more *children* *into an already overcrowded system*.


I'm down with stem cell research! We should be building, and living, in pyramid buildings in the skies and underground cities! Paradise is just around the corner! So I say We need more babies to fill the empty space for the underground cities! 

Bring on the kids because there is going to be plenty of good paying jobs! Underground and pyramid cities is the future! 

The interesting thing about underground cities is that the more We escavate, the bigger perimeter the Earth is going to have. And thats a good thing! There is plenty of space underground!

We need some distilleries to convert the ocean water to fresh. 

Than We can go to the Moon! 

Paradise will come! 

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## Windshieldwiper (Dec 8, 2008)

Hello.

Tonight something out of the ordinary happened to me. Someone put a piece of paper under me with only the text

"https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/59853-christianity-has-been-debunked-once-63.html". I'm used to things being put under me but this was new, and _exciting_.

To my surprise when I read the link there was nothing on the page about how to deal with ice, best techniques for wiping off dry bird crap, or how to wipe faster (*use lube). I even tried wiping my windshield while I read it but that didn't help .

Maybe you of you guys just wanted to share. If that's the case I'd like to share the wiki entry on Windshield washer fluid. I freaking LOVE this stuff!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windshield_washer_fluid

It's insane how awesome windshield wiper fluid is.


* edit: Don't use lube on your windshield. It's "streaky".


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## hom36rown (Dec 8, 2008)

Windshieldwiper said:


> Hello.
> 
> Tonight something out of the ordinary happened to me. Someone put a piece of paper under me with only the text
> 
> ...


LOL. Wow you must be smoking some excellent weed


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## Windshieldwiper (Dec 8, 2008)

hom36rown said:


> LOL. Wow you must be smoking some excellent weed


That reminds me of a really great story. (Trip Report)

One day I was just chilling on my windshield doing nothing right and then there's like something wet ALL OVER THE WINDSHIELD! I don't know what happened next, it was like *primal*, I started whipping around back and forth wiping like crazy! I was like "holy shit! I was fucking *BORN *to do this! *Wiping is awesome!!!!!* 

I've tried wiping lots of times since then but that first time was by far the best, it was like, spiritual.

5:15 wipe every day


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## trishmybiscuits (Dec 9, 2008)

BobMarleySpliffs said:


> The greatest fairy tale ever told, but if you truly do believe in God 100% without fooling yourself it can be very powerful and hopeful.


If that mentality helps some people that's fine just so long as those who harbor that mentality don't go around implying that those who don't are screwed up. That's what the problem with the Christians is. They can't subscribe to their religious beliefs without implying that those who don't are screwed up.


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## Cheeser (Dec 9, 2008)

I dont dig shit scrubbing man ... It is one of a million pass times for the unemployed stoner tribe . 

In my spair time i pray to jesus lmao Only joking i like to tie bangers to old people,s doors and then ring there bell when i light them and record on my phone lol 

People the like to let others that they pray and go to mass are just hypocrites looking to be seen as good living people .

People that pray and tell,s no one are cool people and should be respected

And the one,s insulting each other because they believe in god or the dont believe are just little girlies


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## SriYogananda (Dec 10, 2008)

>>I have no connection to the Unintimidated Press other than being an occasional visitor. I do admit that I like a lot of the things on that site but that's it. Secondly, my name isn't "Jesse." But it sounds to me like you're trying to expose someone and maybe that should be brought to the attention of the moderators.>>

Yes, I think it should. Jesse A, (owner and writer of the said site) also goes by the name of TrishMyBiscuits (as under your sig) on a couple of forums. What a strange coincidence that you both use the same name and have no connection whatsoever? Life is funny.... 

>>>And lastly, you have got to be the biggest hypocrite on the face of the planet. In that same post you called for this thread to be deleted. So what's wrong with that? Well, let's put it this way. At the time you made that post this thread had long since faded from the leaderboard. If you didn't dredge it back up it would've just faded off into oblivion. If you think it should deleted then why did you dredge it back up you God-damned, fuckin', wretched, stinking, dipshit, moron, hypocrite?>>

LOL! I have rarely laughed so much in all my life. I go away for a couple of months, hoping on my return to read a cogent, insightful response as to why your debunking of christianity is nonsense. Is this seriously the best you can do? The intellectual who posts that his logic is beyond dispute and that anyone who dares to question him is either wrong or a closet christian. LOL!....Sorry, I keep reading 'god-damned, fuckin', etc and it makes me laugh so much....Bwahahahahaha. Suddenly the face of intellect is dropped and the real 'man' appears.

Nothing then to back up your argument about having destroyed christianity, or why people did really believe in a flat earth as you've claimed for so long? Nahhhh, didn't think so...

See you on your other forums.

Kindest regards,
SY


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## Grade (Dec 10, 2008)

was it just me or was none of that based on any fact AT ALL?? just opinions......... not really a debunking if you ask me..... stoned rant at the very best./.


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## trishmybiscuits (Dec 10, 2008)

SriYogananda said:


> >>I have no connection to the Unintimidated Press other than being an occasional visitor. I do admit that I like a lot of the things on that site but that's it. Secondly, my name isn't "Jesse." But it sounds to me like you're trying to expose someone and maybe that should be brought to the attention of the moderators.>>
> 
> Yes, I think it should. Jesse A, (owner and writer of the said site) also goes by the name of TrishMyBiscuits (as under your sig) on a couple of forums. What a strange coincidence that you both use the same name and have no connection whatsoever? Life is funny....
> 
> ...


Moderators please take notice:

This is the second time that this individual has showed up strictly and for no other reason than to attack the mesenger. This individual doesn't add anything intelligent to this discussion and is just trying to pursue some kind of personal vendetta for reasons only beknownst to her.

Secondly - and anyone who uses this forum should pay attention to this as well - this individual is clearly trying to expose someone else's identity (fortunately not mine but clearly someone's). I can't believe that this is a practice that anyone wants to condone, including, but not limited to, the operators of this Web site.

I say to the moderators, if you can't ban this individual from this forum, can you at least ban her from this thread?


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## Higher Education (Dec 12, 2008)

The original article posted tries to associate human characteristics to an omnipotent being. Just because one does not comprehend the idea of omnipotent God's power does not mean that it is nonexistent. I challenge anyone to give me a satisfactory definition of infinity. The words or phrases a lot, never ending, or anything similar is not permitable. I bet no one can do it, yet we have proven the existence of infinity. I know the mathematical proof personally. I know, we havent proven God's omnipotence or even his existence but thats not to say it does not exist.


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## BirdTooth (Dec 12, 2008)

Higher Education said:


> ... Just because one does not comprehend the idea of omnipotent God's power does not mean that it is nonexistent...


Neither does it mean that it does exist. A lot of believers suppose god exists based on the fact that they perceive it to be so. It is that same arrogance that convinces a group of 30 religious fanatics on a compound somewhere that, out of the billions of people on earth, those 30 know some great thing that nobody else has figured out. You can not prove to me that there is not a magical bear who wanders the siberian tundra with candy-cane striped fur. The only difference between me believing that, and you believing in god, is that more people agree with you.
If, on the other hand, you are talking about god as a metaphorical awe of nature, or something similar, then it is unproductive to use the word god, because that is not what you are talking about.


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## socialproblem (Dec 12, 2008)

First- how about we quit trying to tell people what to believe and what not too. Second, there are many things in this article that are false claims by the writer. People who really study and know the bible don't believe the devil has a pitchfork and is a little red guy. That is stupid. They believe that he once was an angel. And don't get the wrong idea of what people believe angels are either....not the cute little things with wings like depicted in art. Also, the Bible is one of the most accurate history books ever. Many have set out to prove events in the bible never occurred and have failed. Jesus of Nazareth was on the Earth, he did many great things. Most, if not all religions believe in his existence, but most consider him a profit. It is in my opinion that he was either the son of God, or a mad man for claiming to be so.


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## trishmybiscuits (Dec 15, 2008)

Higher Education said:


> The original article posted tries to associate human characteristics to an omnipotent being. Just because one does not comprehend the idea of omnipotent God's power does not mean that it is nonexistent. I challenge anyone to give me a satisfactory definition of infinity. The words or phrases a lot, never ending, or anything similar is not permitable. I bet no one can do it, yet we have proven the existence of infinity. I know the mathematical proof personally. I know, we havent proven God's omnipotence or even his existence but thats not to say it does not exist.


Everything that's been said about the Christian god is nothing but speculation. Regarding the .57 sec. statistic that's mentioned in the piece, most people who take issue with that stat say something like,"God doesn't exist in the same time dimension as humans." But that is nothing but sheer utter, and absurd speculation. I guarantee you that the speculation will never be proven.


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## Farmer 1 (Dec 17, 2008)

Yes,I'd like to dispuite every single point in that article. Give me some time because it is quite a long article.


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## nicktheburk (Dec 17, 2008)

Altho you may not go to church, im sure you know about the bible and its "answers" Well just like church goers, you seem to be brain washed also. Dont let the government fool you. " Stealing is stealing is stealing" that statement by itself is a perfect example of how powerful our government is. They control the way we think for a reason.. to keep us civilized. they make churches for a reason, to keep us from doing things they dont want us to do. The bible is nothing but a way to control the mass population. Look at the amount of people in christian religion for example. It's a huge organization. Thats exactly what our government wants, if they want the people to eat sandwhiches everyday, all they have to do is write it in the bible Thou shalt edeth sandwhiches daily. and the people will follow..


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## nicktheburk (Dec 17, 2008)

the post above was copied from a post i made in another thread, its not referring to any of you, but i figured id post it here, because it has alot of knowledge that you neeed to read.


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## nicktheburk (Dec 17, 2008)

Why do you think they put people away for so long just for growing a silly plant? They dont want people knowing their secret, and thats exactly what weed does to people. It allows your brain to gather its deepest thoughts and actually figure out and understand the government and cause people to rebell. The government has the american people brain washed, and marijuanna basically un-brainwashes people. thats why its illegal. You can say its silly all you want. It's the truth. There's no books, no research and not facts to proove my statement, but neither is the bibles


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## socialproblem (Dec 17, 2008)

nicktheburk said:


> Altho you may not go to church, im sure you know about the bible and its "answers" Well just like church goers, you seem to be brain washed also. Dont let the government fool you. " Stealing is stealing is stealing" that statement by itself is a perfect example of how powerful our government is. They control the way we think for a reason.. to keep us civilized. they make churches for a reason, to keep us from doing things they dont want us to do. The bible is nothing but a way to control the mass population. Look at the amount of people in christian religion for example. It's a huge organization. Thats exactly what our government wants, if they want the people to eat sandwhiches everyday, all they have to do is write it in the bible Thou shalt edeth sandwhiches daily. and the people will follow..



There is no adding to the bible dude. So, there will be no eating sandwiches all day. The Bible is a very accurate history book(I mentioned in an earlier post) that the government had no say in writing. Just a point.


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## We Love 1 (Dec 18, 2008)

BirdTooth said:


> *The only thing at stake is their soul, and that is their problem.* We all _know_ we have one life.
> 
> while couples who have been together for 30 years can't express themselves as a legal unit, for no other reason than religious sentiment, based solely on the fact that they don't have the ability to shit more children into an already overcrowded system.


The believers have eternal life through Christ.

We don't have an overcrowded "system", We just need to start going underground and pyramid cities! There is more than enough room underground!


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## We Love 1 (Dec 18, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> If that mentality helps some people that's fine just so long as those who harbor that mentality don't go around implying that those who don't are screwed up. That's what the problem with the Christians is. They can't subscribe to their religious beliefs without implying that those who don't are screwed up.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHpye0M34JQ

This is My story! 

The Bible is the story of My life!


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## SmokeyMcSmokester (Dec 18, 2008)

that would be rad if all the crazy christians in the world went underground..take the crazy muslims with ya too!!


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## wmwrestler41 (Dec 18, 2008)

how can u expect to take a GOD a super human being and compare him to humans and human activities? traveling time after death? does god have enough time to get all his work done? if ur talking about god then ur talking about a being that created everything u see around us time would have no effect on such a being u clown.... further if jesus had been sent down to further our species scientifically he would have come down with a lab coat on... he came down to teach us about our spiritual selves and how to live correctly not to give us the next great scientific discovery. i have nothing agianst other view points/ religions on earth we dont know which one is right christianity, muslim, atheism, it takes a stronger person to have faith in somthing and live their life that way and i believe that one way or another we will be rewarded for it.... ur entire peice really holds no relvance u want christians to quit shoving stuff in ur face quit trying ur damndest to shove shit in mine>


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## We Love 1 (Dec 18, 2008)

God says 

*"Christianity has NOT been debunked once and for ALL!"*

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


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## We Love 1 (Dec 18, 2008)

We just want to have fun. Isn't that whats lifes about? How come You need to be born of an engineers son to do good things in life? Why is is so hard for the poor when We could transform this world into heaven?


Ask Me what I like to do for fun! I'm an Adrenaline junkie! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_aubxpoatE (Do you hear Me sing to You? Do You feel my presence? *We have done this before!*)

We Love to skydive, scuba dive, surf, play paintball, discover, play video games, read, workout, play with animals, eat good food, fish commercially, fish for fun, spearfish, drink good wine, bow hunt, shoot guns, ride horses, fast things, motorcycles, cars, dirtbikes, quads, rollerblade, skateboard, play guitar, engineer, teach, learn, fly, and We Love!

I want a UFO so I can play Santa Clause! HAHA

I'm a good God but I do listen to rock and roll too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhjG47gtMCo "*I know* the pieces fit" Let me tell You about an engagement that didn't work out! Her initilas just so happened that they would have been GMO too if We officially got married! 

BTW, I just started reading The Bible and really having faith in Jesus! My mind works in science and I needed things to be proven to Me. God proves right! He is the way! He puts the "way" in "mikly way" 


We can now learn about Zen together! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK_4Z5DZcNM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LN2W9Yv2hU&feature=channel

I am Gods vessel, and We are now connected! 

Fight for Your rights as an Angel of God! 

Resistance is futile! Gods Will will prevail. *We* already won! 

We are Jesus. G is Us!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH1iYDWN3Ic&feature=related

Here I am, Lord sent Me. I'm making my offering to God Almighty! This is My footstool! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF7H9Ri7o-0

Green Moon! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud0kaWLHEd4&feature=related

Age to age He stands. And time is in His hands! 

The lion and the lamb! 

How great is Our God? Sing with Me how great is Our God!

This world is going to be run by Christians!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wutmEjdbedE&feature=related

I saw God in the clouds! His face was lit up by the Sun! He was holding a sickle! Harvest time has come for the mature Christian! Lets take control! I am the reason for the season! Know that You have eternal life, and Jesus died for Your sins! Who are You going to fight for? Will You fight for Jesus and His plans? I am! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPWq8eM4lu8&feature=related

I'm on Your side!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cyqn2LxKVk&feature=related

O.M.G. Hear Me farmers! We will set up distilleries that will convert ocean water to fresh water, so We can irrigate the deserts of the world to increase the food abundance. And all the people will prosper! 

Picture Yourself being in Gods big play! What kind of character do You want to be?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oADMOG89UPg&feature=related

I'm a loner (My X fiance took away My friends because she wanted Me all to Herself) and My family doesn't believe in Me! This IS My new cross Christians! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR4CCLnmf1Q&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQfKoCzn3Eg

I live and let live! You are speaking to Me! Your redeemer! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FS5GYvg6uU&feature=related

We work for God Almighty! How do You want to live the rest of Your life? Its Our choice! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBezK_v_FqY&feature=related

Who believes in We- Me and Jesus?

We have paid the price! 

Everything is a flux of Energy taking the path of least resistance! This is the best way to talk to the Earth, from the internet. My words will be kept forever! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLNL49TFC_8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC617kE1maU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUp7oxOLans&feature=related

I am the Prince of Peace! Your King! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9bC9CRv9oU&feature=related

I am One, with God! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENtL_li4GbE&feature=related

"Scorned by the ones He came to save!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD-ZdMOx_HY&feature=related

We get to write history! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr5Y63bDNNg&feature=related

And He said "Let there be light!" 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRXt5OjIe5E&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MqNV5NvtUQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRjXBbtbEpM&feature=related

This is Your calling! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL18YpuFpHM

This is the work of My hands  We are going to shoot the moon with water due to "slighshots" set up at different parts of the world. We can build the slingshots right above the water so it will be easy to make the next "water granade" heading towards other planets! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FcoWLeEdtQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXCAhKDZRlo&feature=related

Jesus is King! Amen! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87yq372R4Ts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vAqekT-GuA&feature=related

This is My third name on here. Do You know what that means?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE6SR65yTWI

We wish people would become more AWARE, and wake up from the lies! We ARE special! God wants to open Your eyes! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72FkCoJfhgU We were meant to live 

I dare You to dream!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ykm1v9xbU&NR=1

God wants Your soul for safe keeping! BTW, God spins planets so We can live! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHTU2i8RhH8&feature=related Wake up! I heard "them" say on the news that "the sky is falling"..... HAHA God bless everyone! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5mjN32G1iI Do You *listen* to God when He speaks to You?

I'm just a cast away. No one has helped Me with information besides My own intuitive knowledge by the grace of God! I am loner because My family has put Me through hell. I am very good looking though, and I'm going to use My good looks to save the world! You will see pictures of Me! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcUQv4wFMjM

God Almighty sees everything and He will pay You for Your works either in Earth, Heaven or Hell!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xscZeFD2m_o&feature=related

Hes got the whole world in His hands! So have faith in Your living God! 

Life is but a dream that We make! 

I am the sower, and harvest time is near! 

The first time I grew Herb was at *63* pine st, with no harvest because My Dad pulled them out of the garden. The second time I grew was at *36* Aroostook Av and I made a harvest! 

Plant seeds of kindness and harvest Love!

One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


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## We Love 1 (Dec 19, 2008)

I want to employ the world with work, towards Our common good interests!

Will You work for God? 

Just remember that this has already been done, and You now know Christ in Your life wether You like it or not!  HAHA

This was Gods design so things could work out the way they do. Funny isn't it! 

You have already accepted Me into Your life! 

I tell You now that You need more God in Your life!

You will worship Me and We will be good! I can provide if You let Me! I'm in heaven! Your Sun God! Your Son God! 

I'm in training! 

You will worship the Truth and seek for it! You will worship science because science is Gods way of providing and proving ("Ya We" can do that)! You will worship The Light because it opens Your eyes in many ways! 

There will be no more wars and fighting because everyone will worship their savior! G is Us Christ! 

We are taking over! 
One!

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


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## Microdizzey (Dec 19, 2008)

You're starting to snap we tard. Step back a little bit and assess. Calm your mind and think logically about all of this. Things are getting real bad, we all know, but some things just aren't as crazy as you think. Not yet at least. Going underground is a terrible idea man. Those people would never see the sun or get fresh air.



The search for knowledge is a very dangerous road if you don't hold on to your common sense and sanity.


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## cackpircings (Dec 19, 2008)

crazy.... Christans make me laugh


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## Stoney McFried (Dec 19, 2008)

Man, you have totally flipped, dude.The way you present your religion isn't helping your cause a bit.Nobody likes their nose rubbed into shit.You're not a god, god doesn't speak directly to you, you will die like all of us, and rot away.Go be a christian in the real world.Feed the hungry,care for the sick, give till it hurts.Poverty and chastity.Get on it.There's a lot to be done, and spamming forums isn't doing it.


We Love 1 said:


> I want to employ the world with work, towards Our common good interests!
> 
> Will You work for God?
> 
> ...


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## T813308004 (Dec 19, 2008)

I am totally repulsed by that article. I have faith and that is the biggest part of Christianity. It's not "hoping" or "wondering", it's a strong belief within you that Jesus Christ and God exist. I'm not going to try to dispute all of the things said in the article but ALL of the scientifically "proven" things can be completely explained in Christian texts. Go to church and listen once and it will all make sense.


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## Stoney McFried (Dec 19, 2008)

Many of us have been to church.We unbelievers have not been convinced by the church.But that's what's good about America, you can choose to believe what you want.


T813308004 said:


> I am totally repulsed by that article. I have faith and that is the biggest part of Christianity. It's not "hoping" or "wondering", it's a strong belief within you that Jesus Christ and God exist. I'm not going to try to dispute all of the things said in the article but ALL of the scientifically "proven" things can be completely explained in Christian texts. Go to church and listen once and it will all make sense.


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## T813308004 (Dec 19, 2008)

Stoney McFried said:


> Many of us have been to church.We unbelievers have not been convinced by the church.But that's what's good about America, you can choose to believe what you want.


I respect what you believe, but I believe in the Bible an the Lord. And I hope others respect what I believe. I would try to convince you and others of the truth (to you "my" truth) but there is little chance I can persuade many people. I believe that everbody will have an equal chance to choose what is "right" in life.


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## Stoney McFried (Dec 19, 2008)

Right, I do respect your right to believe what you wish.I would never try to convince you to believe my way.I just ask for the same courtesy.I hate having religion pushed on me, and it happens a lot.I used to just smile and nod, but now, I say I'm not interested.Then if they keep pushing, I tend to get rude.


T813308004 said:


> I respect what you believe, but I believe in the Bible an the Lord. And I hope others respect what I believe. I would try to convince you and others of the truth (to you "my" truth) but there is little chance I can persuade many people. I believe that everbody will have an equal chance to choose what is "right" in life.


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## DontMakeMeComeDownThere (Dec 19, 2008)

*Like most folks, I long to know where we came from, what we're supposed to do, where we are going, whether it be somewhere or nowhere. I've spent years researching as much as I can. ALL of the religions I've researched have holes in their theories. Who gives a shit? I personally can't get into the Christian thing. Way too many holes. But, I have many friends who are staunch christians and guess what? It really works for THEM. Most of them are very happy. That's a rare thing to come by. Is it all bullshit? I have no idea. I figure whatever gets you through the day...Whatever gets you through the life. Maybe it IS all just to make us feel safe that there is someone at the controls. Well isn't that the point? If believing that sea monkeys rule the universe gets you through and makes you feel safe and happy, then worship sea monkeys. And then there's the fear factor...While I myself am not a religious person, I hate to think about what society would be like if everyone did not have anything to believe in and to keep them in check. Take away all of the law enforcement and there would be chaos. Take away all of the religion and...well I don't even want to think about that. *


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## socialproblem (Dec 20, 2008)

I don't claim to know any more than anyone else, but me personally.....Well, when I wake up and take a breath in the mornings and see all of the beautiful things in nature, I have to believe there is a creator. Many things happen by chance, and I know science has its answers, which cannot be proven. And I believe in a creator, which cannot be proven. There is strong evidence for both, but it comes down to what you feel inside. And I'm totally against pushing religion on anyone, but I encourage people to search within themselves and try to find what works.


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## We Love 1 (Dec 20, 2008)

See dees! Cd's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmrF9KjlGsc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOMqwPxUx54

Have You guys seen this?

Does this mean war with Our gov'ts/banks/mainstream media or is it just Me?

I am the New World Order! I am Your Lord Jesus Christ!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDx5C_6Rf24

"They" poisoned Me too! 

*"Speak to Me, the pain You feel!"*

You will listen to Me and We will prosper!

You know I'm Your Savior, right?


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## We Love 1 (Dec 20, 2008)

socialproblem said:


> Most, if not all religions believe in his existence, but most consider him a profit. It is in my opinion that he was either the son of God, or a mad man for claiming to be so.


I come every ~2150 years to set things straight and be Your beautiful Savior again! 

My name is Amen!

We praise Me in Jesus name! 

The World knows who I am! 

Its going to be harvest time! HAHA 

I will be Your beautiful King, and I will make all things good abundant!


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## We Love 1 (Dec 20, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> Everything that's been said about the Christian god is nothing but speculation. Regarding the .57 sec. statistic that's mentioned in the piece, most people who take issue with that stat say something like,"God doesn't exist in the same time dimension as humans." But that is nothing but sheer utter, and absurd speculation. I guarantee you that the speculation will never be proven.


I am here with Us now! 

Just imagine all the good things that We can do when Gods on Your side 

Life is going to be great for everyone!


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## We Love 1 (Dec 20, 2008)

nicktheburk said:


> Why do you think they put people away for so long just for growing a silly plant? They dont want people knowing their secret, and thats exactly what weed does to people. It allows your brain to gather its deepest thoughts and actually figure out and understand the government and cause people to rebell. The government has the american people brain washed, and marijuanna basically un-brainwashes people. thats why its illegal. You can say its silly all you want. It's the truth. There's no books, no research and not facts to proove my statement, but neither is the bibles


Its kinda crazy because it-weed- is like the fruit of knowledge between good and evil! 

Come to RIU, smoke some weed and figure out just how horrible Our world has been! The banks turn Us into their SLAVES! 

I say to hell with the banks! 

I will regulate the money, and We will all prosper! Lets put Me in for president! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6qG4yn-Ps

Sing for Your King 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kohQSqTVMc4

*Can you hear, there&#8217;s a new song*
*Breaking out from the children of freedom*
Every race and every nation
Sing it out sing a *new *Hallelujah

Rif.
Let us sing love the nations
*Bringing hope of the grace that has freed us*
*Make Him known and make Him famous *
*Sing it out sing a new Hallelujah*

Rif.
Chorus
Arise
*let the church Arise*
Let love reach to the other side
Alive come alive
Let the *SON* Arise

Rif.
*Africa sings a new song*
reaching out with the new Hallelujah
Every son and every daughter
everyone sing a new Hallelujah

Rif.

Chorus
Arise
let the church Arise
Let *We Love* reach to the other side
Alive come alive
Let the song Arise

Bridge
Whoa whoa ye&#8230;.ah
Let the song arise
Let the *SON* arise ye&#8230;.ah (2x)

Rif.
Spoken
*Let the world sing a new Hallelujah*
*From Africa to Australia*
From Brazil to China
From New York down to Houston!

Chorus

Rif.
*Everyone sing a new Hallelujah (2x) *


----------



## We Love 1 (Dec 20, 2008)

Microdizzey said:


> You're starting to snap we tard. Step back a little bit and assess. Calm your mind and think logically about all of this. Things are getting real bad, we all know, but some things just aren't as crazy as you think. Not yet at least. Going underground is a terrible idea man. Those people would never see the sun or get fresh air.
> 
> 
> 
> The search for knowledge is a very dangerous road if you don't hold on to your common sense and sanity.


O.M.G. at Your service  HAHA

There would be ventilation systems!  

I have lots of good plans! If You read this thread from page 60 on, You will know what direction God wants You to take! 

Nothing is impossible with God! 

Praise be to God! 

You will help fight with Me in Gods REVOLUTION against evil people! Would You rather let Satan(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnwLgrSJZKs) rule the world or God/Me?

Join a militia! We must take the gov't down! And I will be the good sheppard forever and ever! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJBQUM52dhw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j39ABZyzek

Are You awake? If You are, *You should be VERY angry at the GOV'TS and BANKS!*


----------



## We Love 1 (Dec 20, 2008)

Stoney McFried said:


> Many of us have been to church.We unbelievers have not been convinced by the church.But that's what's good about America, you can choose to believe what you want.


Are You jelous that I got to save the world? And being a poor vagabond at that 

You can help Me save the world too! You just need to spread The Word about "The Good News"!

Jesus is back! I'm going to start ministering!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeQ_5aEPKvI

Be glad and rejoice for My name is good and I am also good! 

We Welcome You!

Gods in control! God RULES!

And BTW Stoney, You can call Me God because I am the reason for the season http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToWu-SeM5ek



*Joy to the world, the Lord is come!*
*Let earth receive her King;*
*Let every heart prepare Him room,*
*And heaven and nature sing,*
*And heaven and nature sing,*
*And heaven, and heaven, and nature sing.*

*Joy to the world, the Savior reigns!*
*Let men their songs employ;*
*While fields and floods, rocks, hills and plains*
*Repeat the sounding joy,*
*Repeat the sounding joy,*
*Repeat, repeat, the sounding joy.*

*No more let sins and sorrows grow,*
*Nor thorns infest the ground;*
*He comes to make His blessings flow*
*Far as the curse is found,*
*Far as the curse is found,*
*Far as, far as, the curse is found.*
*He rules the world with truth and grace,*
*And makes the nations prove*
*The glories of His righteousness,*
*And wonders of His love,*
*And wonders of His love,*
*And wonders, wonders, of His love.*​You love Me!

I am Your Lord! 
​


----------



## We Love 1 (Dec 20, 2008)

socialproblem said:


> I don't claim to know any more than anyone else, but me personally.....Well, when I wake up and take a breath in the mornings and see all of the beautiful things in nature, I have to believe there is a creator. Many things happen by chance, and I know science has its answers, which cannot be proven. And I believe in a creator, which cannot be proven. There is strong evidence for both, but it comes down to what you feel inside. And I'm totally against pushing religion on anyone, but I encourage people to search within themselves and try to find what works.


When pigs fly!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Axkn8G18t8&feature=related

I believe We should use and do all things good!


----------



## Stoney McFried (Dec 20, 2008)

Sorry, I don't believe in Jesus.But There's no discussion with you We, you just repeat it all over and over.Have some happy holidays.


We Love 1 said:


> Are You jelous that I got to save the world? And being a poor vagabond at that
> 
> You can help Me save the world too! You just need to spread The Word about "The Good News"!
> 
> ...


----------



## We Love 1 (Dec 20, 2008)

Stoney McFried said:


> Have some happy holidays.


You too! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STPVvd_II08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO_KILnJdHw HAHA "*I said I love You"*

Do You know how beautiful I am?

I'm better looking than Brad Pitt!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlBAf_SKwPQ

Jesus Messiah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHpye0M34JQ

I am undeniable!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt7REDIgj9M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ8jCZQUWGw


----------



## Farmer 1 (Dec 21, 2008)

Yes, I am a taker. I have to say that articale isn't based on fact at all. I can tear it apart piece by piece but it is quite lenghly and it will take a great deal of time so I will have to do it bit by bit. Right now I would like to address the issue the author made about why didn't Christ tell people the earth is not flat. My friends, the Bible clearly states the earth is a circle. Isaiah 40:22 It is He that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth. If people would just study the Bible they would find the answers they seek.


----------



## We Love 1 (Dec 21, 2008)

Farmer 1 said:


> Yes, I am a taker.


Resistance is futile! God plays for keeps! 

Christ doesn't like to mislead anyone!

I'm here to save the day! Whom else would put His life on the line besides God interjecting to keep His/My promises! I'm taking out the gov't! Whos got My back? They were poisoning Jesus! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDx5C_6Rf24 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEI4Y4jpe94

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwWYfwuTeaw&feature=related

We are going places together 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopian_society

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqTuN-35580

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWkbFKJZB0k

We will rule the World again!


----------



## Angel B Smooth (Dec 21, 2008)

even for those that are fighting blah blah blah

we are all part of the same system, and that system has been fragmented in to many sub systems as we have gotten more complex, the next evolutionary step is simple, the entire system will become self aware ie. we will all realize at once that we are all one. this is i think called the end of times simply because we will no longer use the construct of time to guide us. so no need for flaming or hate because as is stated throughout time(lol) it is inevitable. See you at 1.. or better yet see me at 1... or better yet.... 1.

Its impossible to explain the infinate with only 24 characters to do so.


----------



## Mystery101 (Dec 21, 2008)

I haven't read your whole post and am not gonna bother. I read one of your posts on Stoney's thread and it was pissin me off soo I Just wanna tell you a story:

Few years back it was me and 3 of my buddies. After smoking togeth for sometime (sharing shit, and actually becoming friends) he took shrooms.

We smoked togeth at least 3 times a week. After he took shrooms he started experiencing his spirituality.

He would try to convince us that he was right and we were wrong. Even though we werent argueing. He gave up smoking and became infactuated with this shit. Long story short his name is matt. 

He came over with HIS friend to my house. It was me and 3 of my buddies. He starts talking that religious shit, and calls me a bitch. I punched him dead in the mouth, in my backyard n told him to get the fuck out (a lil harsh i know.)

Nobody has fucked with him sense. Others due to other reasons that i wont type out. did you take shrooms dude?

All im saying dude is be careful what you say, some may not have the same views as you do. Dont get hurt going to far... 

I was on someone else's thread and saw you talking your shit, so im telling you now to stop or karma may catch up w/you. 

Have a good holiday bro


----------



## We Love 1 (Dec 21, 2008)

Mystery101 said:


> ...
> 
> I was on someone else's thread and saw you talking your shit, so im telling you now to stop or karma may catch up w/you.
> 
> Have a good holiday bro


Jesus knows whats going to happen!

You will all follow Me because the world has gone astray!

The true Christians know My voice! 

You can believe what You want. Try the Truth sometime though, it might help. Check out My signature!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrite


----------



## Mystery101 (Dec 21, 2008)

What is a "true" christian?

Why are you on a marijuana site advertising this instead of church?

Your a fucking kid, ahaha I remember those days though.. Gotta love em

PEACE BRO AND LOVE


----------



## We Love 1 (Dec 21, 2008)

Mystery101 said:


> What is a "true" christian?
> 
> Why are you on a marijuana site advertising this instead of church?
> 
> ...


Who do You believe I am?


----------



## We Love 1 (Dec 21, 2008)

Years later, Jesus reemphasized this harvest principle by giving John a picture of how the


----------



## Farmer 1 (Dec 21, 2008)

Genisis1:12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bering fruit with seed in it according to theri kinds. And God saw that it was good.


----------



## Farmer 1 (Dec 21, 2008)

We are here on this marijuana site "advertising" instead of the church because the church people already get it.


----------



## Stoney McFried (Dec 21, 2008)

Well, I, for one, don't want it.Btw, I reported this as a multiple account, WE.


Farmer 1 said:


> We are here on this marijuana site "advertising" instead of the church because the church people already get it.


----------



## We Love 1 (Dec 22, 2008)

Farmer 1 said:


> We are here on this marijuana site "advertising" instead of the church because the church people already get it.


So, lets meet up and do good things together! I'm waiting for The Church/believers in Me, to help Me overthrow the gov'ts! And life will be good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOT96o-ds5I&feature=related

Jesus talks to the world on Rollitup. org. 
My name is "We Love1" on there! Check it out!
Jesus is alive, My name is George Manuel Oliveira! Farmer with Us is God! Olive tree! 
This is Your REVELATIONS!
Behold I am coming quickly! Blesssed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book- The Bible
Jesus Christ (I am single! I'm tall dark and handsome  )
Whos wants to have a child with God?
Wel come to the REVOLUTION! You will be educated! 

Everyone will know Jesus is King!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnq5cQMiAB8&feature=related

Lets all make this easy on Ourselves!

I just just want to do good things! 

You will worship only Me though!

For I am Jesus born again! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC_C-onaCu0&feature=related I scuba dive!(beast coming out of the sea)  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF6uiQ3210I&feature=related

This is My third name BTW. "We Tarded" was the antiChrist because I had My doubts about God because of my tribulations. But now I know how real He is!  I'm Your new Messiah! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDx5C_6Rf24 (They poisoned God too!) "Revolution will GROW"

You will worship Me! I'm beautiful in many ways!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBFsL76PzAY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh61v7hZll8&NR=1

Are You ready? 

Let it be know! I am Your God Amen and I will be Your Good Sheppard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_Sm3FSgMyU&feature=related

"Cause I was made for chasing dreams!"

I've gone through hell, I know what its like to be poor! You will know how good I am! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmOH5f1J1Uc

I'm half Portuguese, and the other half is Irish, Scottish(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBXBtORI7pE,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj-uTLVOAE8&feature=related), and Lithuanian (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGyIDYqtDmA)

I have olive skin! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbLQLwVlcFg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBXBtORI7pE

I live in *NEW* *England*! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HY0aCmZ784

While I was living at 36 aroostook av, I have a white American Staffordshire Terrior that I rescued from My brother. I only paid $20k dollars for My house in ME!


----------



## hom36rown (Dec 22, 2008)

stop youre stupid fuckin spam. Nobody fuckin watches your stupid fuckin youtube vidoes, or gives a fuck what you have to say. Eighter actually participate in a debate or conversation....or stop posting your mass of youtube links. NOBODY WATCHES THEM. NOBODY EVEN CLICKS ON THEM. YOU ARE A FUCKING NUT JOB, WE ARE NOT GOING TO LIVE UNDERGROUND, YOU, OR I OR WE OR w/e THE FUCK is NOT JESUS. JESUS was just some faggot caprenter that live 2000 years ago. HE isnt he fucking son of god....you are not the fucking son of god. YOU ARE AN IDIOT WHO THINKS YOU KNOW IT ALL, you do not know shit. PLEASE GET AN EDUCATION and A life. YOu are not special, you are not enlightend...You remind me of my schizophrenic cousin that tells me we need to steal spaceships from nasa and build farms on the moon. OPE, just scratched an idea off your list huh. GET HELP! AND get the fuck off this forum!


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## We Love 1 (Dec 22, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4wojcSO9Ww&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0haVO07qOI&feature=related

You will listen to Christian music and study The Bible!

For I am with You!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG3UryPK9iM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxfs1iEg144&feature=related (What do You think about this?) 

This is evolution, We will evolve for the better! Everyone will be smarter! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe0OTB25KTM

Ohh, and BTW, Your sins are forgiven! 

This is My glory! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ9HDBJDRvg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rqhG2yT-58&feature=related

What more do I have to prove?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZETIiclW8U4&feature=related

Trust in Me. In God We trust! Not the gov'ts, for now You see how much "they" lie to You with the all the brainwash! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyApOr4vFTw&feature=related

Beautiful King of the nations! 

I am back! This is Your warning! Get good with God and then We will live life the way G is Us intends! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7-mbBlwiqY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_PawcvFrMQ&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6azgLVelRpo&feature=rec-HM-r2
"Jesus Christ is the revelator! Thats Me!" ^^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXfmORL6kHI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqcr9uF5ff4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q41vzLjwZqM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo1HefpB_J0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdeAnFZk2Oc&feature=related

We are going to have lots of these machines! Mark My Words! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3HGkB1QzW8

I was sent by God Almighty to free Our people and to expand Your minds! 

Who do You want in control? God or the devil, and mans sinful greedy ways?


In Catholic and Orthodox Christian cultures, if a body remains incorruptible after death, this is generally seen to be a sign that the individual is a saint, although not every saint is expected to have an incorruptible corpse.

They "killed" We Tarded! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es-YbHlBKtU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-rAA8XUrIw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uquQTi_JYeA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z7joH7JL3U

*Chemtrails*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9qC6AlkkNc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCGr71St9W8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaPqCMIuEk4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wye2YWRohT4&feature=related

Watch the planes spray Us with stuff for Yourself! I watch them now that I am aware of it! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_8Zq_iWuFg

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/11/23/the_world_is_ruled_by_serial_killers_and


----------



## trishmybiscuits (Dec 23, 2008)

Farmer 1 said:


> the church people already get it.


And just exactly what is it that the church people get? Fantasy and myth?


----------



## We Love 1 (Dec 23, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> And just exactly what is it that the church people get? Fantasy and myth?


My people will know their Saviors Words!

Do You believe that this all was an accident? 

Do You believe in Gods Words? Do You know Gods Words?

Do You believe that I am Jesus incarnate? I match the perfect profile! This all happened inadvertantly, as I didn't name Myself, and My family denies that I am Christ! They don't care enough to watch the videos, some family I have! HAHA...... Goes to show how ignorance is bliss. Because after You know what I know, You now work for Christ in one way or another, because You will spread the Word or be judged by God Almighty. Educate the sheeple people! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWkbFKJZB0k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmrF9KjlGsc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEqB41Ow0vU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3asBAmKBnE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l24wdZrtZqI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6-ccyvwgGY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PA3nZFV2T4


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## hom36rown (Dec 23, 2008)

Do you feel depressed alot we?


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## We Love 1 (Dec 23, 2008)

hom36rown said:


> Do you feel depressed alot we?


Sometimes. 

This world is awful. I guess it takes a Savior/Me to staighten things out! 

Do* You* get depressed?


----------



## shitsngiggles (Dec 23, 2008)

I love Jesus and it creeps me out to think ill of him.....and check out my grow
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/139372-my-legal-ca-grow.html


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## We Love 1 (Dec 24, 2008)

shitsngiggles said:


> I love Jesus and it creeps me out to think ill of him.....and check out my grow


We Love You too! 

No need to think ill about Me, for I am WeL. 

Imagine how much more Jesus would have been able to teach if He had the internet? I guess thats where I come into play. I'm His Helper, because We are One! 

If anyone has any questions as what kind of person I am, feel free to ask. I'm now an open book. If I wasn't camera shy, I would post some youtube vids. I'm going to post some better pics of Me once I get a digital camera, shortly. 

I'm a very placid guy, but I love to have fun/adrenaline junkie. I'm just very BROKE right now(maybe I'll tell You guys My sad story, if You want)... HAHA... I don't like to fight with people or start trouble. I just want to live My life in peace and enjoy My journey.

I'm by no means as perfect as Jesus was, but I try do the best with what I have. 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnate


----------



## wackymack (Dec 24, 2008)

people just remember that everything happens for a reason,neutons law of physics...every action has a equal or opposite reaction.if u think we are all just fucked up and cant become "healed" then u need to do some personal soul searching and see the light once again...it is beautiful. we as a human race will never know everything,that is the mystery to life. im sorry for everything that ive done and for everything that has happened. i turned a new page and started a new chapter in my life. the life of negativity is over,a new era and reign of happiness has begun,enbrace it,for the human spirit is alive again.

smoke your shit till u 
when u become sick to your stomach to what everything has become then u will realize how to change things for the better. a more perfect union is what we should really seek.

(ps...dont bash me for what i speak to u,just use it as an example in your personal lives,life is beautiful,its so emotional and alive!)


----------



## We Love 1 (Dec 24, 2008)

wackymack said:


> people just remember that everything happens for a reason,neutons law of physics...every action has a equal or opposite reaction.if u think we are all just fucked up and cant become "healed" then u need to do some personal soul searching and see the light once again...it is beautiful.


I agree.

Once the world knows the Truth, than time will heal ALL! There are MUCH better ways of doing things than what the gov'ts/*devil worshippers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P-hvPJPTi4.)(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od29Ece8OsE&feature=related)* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwze58K8ofo)are leading Us to believe! 

I'm only 23 and I just "reallly" got hold of the internet a couple years ago. Imagine what We can do with all the brainpower We have in this world?

Every person should have a computer so they too can have the whole world at their fingertips for a resource. The skies the limit! 



wackymack said:


> we as a human race will never know everything,that is the mystery to life. im sorry for everything that ive done and for everything that has happened. *i turned a new page and started a new chapter in my life. the life of negativity is over,a new era and reign of happiness has begun,enbrace it,for the human spirit is alive again.*
> 
> smoke your shit till u
> when u become sick to your stomach to what everything has become then u will realize how to change things for the better. a more perfect union is what we should really seek.


I'm glad to hear that!* Awesome!* ^^^ (Everyday is a new begginning.)

A more perfect union is EXACTLY what We should really seek! God says "seek and You shall find."



wackymack said:


> (ps...dont bash me for what i speak to u,just use it as an example in your personal lives,life is beautiful,its so emotional and alive!)


 (No bashing from Me, just Love) 

Life is what We make it. How We see things. 

Every individual can have an incredible influence upon the world! It all takes time and effort though. We all have Our parts to play. We all have lots to learn! We are going to have "UFOs" 

The more We encourage eachother, the smarter We-Our race, as a whole- will get because confidence is key. If You believe in Yourself, theres no stopping You! "Where theres a will, theres a way."

We can do all things good! 

For those who belive, We ARE *Gods* children! Why wouldn't He want the best for Us? *God is good*! 

I can't wait until We start building underground cities and pyramid cites! Imagine how much money people are going to save in the underground cites? You won't have to spend money on heating or cooling because underground is very insulated. We will be able to tap into geo-thermal energy too, and use it as radiant heat if We want. We can harvest electricity from the geo-thermal heat too! http://www.heavymachineryinfo.com/articles/1481/1/Tiny-devices-harvest-heat-from-machines-to-power-sensors/Tiny-devices-harvest-heat-from-machines-to-power-sensors.html "It is based on the well-established Peltier thermoelectric effect*, by which heat is converted into electrical energy."* Or We can use the steam to turn generators.*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_harvesting*

(I don't have audio for some reason at this computer so I don't know what these people are saying ATM  *frowns*.. HAHA Check these links out anyways..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfUQy86ZMpQ......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA27aEamWzY .........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pJyFtZcXNY.......http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R02sy5TI4bs.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ajqiPe_9Ko&feature=related)

The future is Bright! We don't need fossil fuels anymore! 

(Ohh and BTW, I *heard* the Bush family has more money invested in pharmaceuticals than oil. Go figure!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpM6VSbndEY (Join Gods fleet/militia!) 

Merry Christmas! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oADMOG89UPg&feature=related (My X fiance was from RI. She broke My heart. *IN RI!* Her initials were going to be the same as mine if she didn't cheat on Me with My brother )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CseiSIfnofA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2e4nIIMN1I (I'm '*a Manuel'*)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU_rTX23V7Q&feature=related (Who am I?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwsvqVmFV6Y&feature=related



Will You walk with Me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rqhG2yT-58 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6V4r0_6zho&feature=related 

*Listen *to the lyrics America! Tell people that Jesus is alive, talk about it on youtube or something.


----------



## K1Ng5p4d3 (Dec 24, 2008)

..And i sayeth unto thee - what the fuck is wrong with this picture?

dude.....no.


----------



## Budsworth (Dec 24, 2008)

I Like Turtles.....


----------



## Mystery101 (Dec 24, 2008)

I like shaven pussy


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## Dmnreaper (Dec 25, 2008)

Mystery101 said:


> I like shaven pussy


Word to that


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## socialproblem (Dec 25, 2008)

Hey We 
you are out of control. You are making a bad name for Christians. You usually don't make sense. Chill out. Go to some other forum to make outlandish statements and post youtube links.


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## Keenly (Dec 25, 2008)

he is starting to get downright offensive with him forcing himself onto everyone


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## socialproblem (Dec 25, 2008)

and it is totally incoherent. He sounds like this guy I knew that got messed up by taking too many pills at the same time.


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## Keenly (Dec 25, 2008)

socialproblem said:


> and it is totally incoherent. He sounds like this guy I knew that got messed up by taking too many pills at the same time.



"i am god"

(you tube link about nothing)

(another youtube link about nothing)

(another useless youtube link)

no matter what you say ill always tell you your wrong and i am right!


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## socialproblem (Dec 25, 2008)

lol. can't wait to see what incoherent response he has to that.  maybe we'll get another youtube link.


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## natrone23 (Dec 26, 2008)

Months ago We was a conspiracy nut, he would do the same thing with youtube links and everything, every week it would be another conspiracy, and more outlandish everytime, and now he came back as Jesus lol...............but We is nice all the time, atleast he's not a asshole lol. Come back to earth We lol


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## We Love 1 (Dec 26, 2008)

socialproblem said:


> Hey We
> you are out of control. You are making a bad name for Christians. You usually don't make sense. Chill out. Go to some other forum to make outlandish statements and post youtube links.


How am I making a bad name for Christians? Christians aren't perfect, but its Our goal to be more like Christ! 

Feel free to quote Me, and tell Me where I'm off! I try and learn from My mistakes.

Thank You! 



natrone23 said:


> Months ago We was a conspiracy nut, he would do the same thing with youtube links and everything, every week it would be another conspiracy, and more outlandish everytime, and now he came back as Jesus lol...............but We is nice all the time, atleast he's not a asshole lol. *Come back to earth We *lol


HAHA 

I'll admit that I'm different! But isn't that what makes Us special?

Anyways, I'm a cool dude, I've just been on a mission every since I figured out how corrupt the world is (just watch My links and draw Your own deductions). There will be people that are going to hate Me because I'm going to do whatever it takes to change this world for the better. I work for God Almighty now! 

But ya, I have been on cloud nine. Thats what happens when I'm unemployed with time on My hands, a computer at My disposal and smoking Herb! I like when My mind wonders, theres so much more out there. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFWPeVfWB9o

I just (ate and) learned about Quinoa, a supergrain. We should be eating more buffalo too! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEQXvsQJVnY


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## socialproblem (Dec 27, 2008)

Well, that was a more coherent and sensible quote. Not sure about the buffalo eating, but..... 

At least you didn't claim to be Jesus this time. 

And at least you are nice. There are a lot of people who are just plain ass faces on here.


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## We Love 1 (Dec 27, 2008)

If I'm not the Second Coming of Jesus, than the world is going to have a hard time finding a better person that fits the sandels! 


Would You rather worship, Obama? He has family ties with BOTH the Bushs AND Cheneys! And *now* We know about how their families operate! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKHdEZSK9VU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGiVMHxGvgE (Who do You think actually killed Our good presidents that wanted to do good for the world? The terrorists/*devil worshippers*/gov'ts killed them! They actually sponsor terrorism!)

Who do You still believe?

A little science...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o4ODWMZq5U&feature=related (Co2 is good. Co2 produces life! Don't let them fool You.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp6-wG5LLqE)

We should be producing more oxygen in the atmosphere by using solar pannels to convert water into its elements of hydrogen *and oxygen*! The more oxygen in the atmoshphere will enable Us to live longer. The free hydrogen can pass through the intakes of internal combustion engines, and produce a proportional amount of energy increase (You'll get more MPG). Or, maybe We can just collect* the hydrogen from the electrolysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis)process, compress it, and use the hydrogen for straight fuel . Either way, using solar panels to break down ocean water into hydrogen and oxygen is a brilliant idea, its just a matter of what We use it for and at what proportions.

Once I officially become King, I will make all things good cheaper! That includes solar panels because they are the future! Lets let the Sun do the work because the Sun provides all Our needs anyway!

* Using platinum electrodes, hydrogen gas will be seen to bubble up at the cathode, and oxygen will bubble at the anode. Electrodes made of stainless steel can be used because they will not react with the oxygen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a9Syi12RJo&feature=related


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## hom36rown (Dec 27, 2008)

I like basketball


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## cackpircings (Dec 27, 2008)

Yahweh said:


> 1. Everything about jesus WAS hearsay NOT one historian of that time even says anything about jesus, why is this? someone who turns water to wine..and NOTHING?
> 2. Jews don't believe that jesus is (godson)
> 3. Another thing is The Christian Bible has been changed soo many times how can you believe anything in it?
> 4. Christians believe the bible word for word jews know its all metaphors
> ...


 
+ rep for the movie suggestion... It was well filmed and I love the factual information, cutting it clear and dry, just how I like it!


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## R3F3RMADN3$$ (Dec 28, 2008)

There is only perception.



$ Religion $-
It has served its purpose for advocating --even increasing-- the functionality of our society by MASKING the fact that we do not know what, who, why, where, or even when we are. The mask provided is that of DECEPTION-- they claim to know the origin and messages of the divine when they define such things as unknowable. They express THEORY as FACT using ideas CONCIEVED BY THEMSELVES as a basis to portray their thesis on ethic in order to execute their not-so-personal agenda: to make money and GAIN POWER by trying to instill Man Made Ideas into you and your children (future generations) without giving any consideration to what beliefs you may develop given their absence-- beliefs you may choose to shape your life around. THEY shape YOUR life for you via the manipulation of your thoughts so they may (1) Gain the privilege of TRUE freedom, and (2) Attempt to predispose you to a life of FEAR.

FEAR GOD.

FEAR PLAUGUE.

FEAR HELL.

-------dont worry about fearing purgatory, because they decided to get rid of it.-------.......?


!Existentialism!
People need to start THINKING FOR THEMSELVES and STOP taking ANY religious word for a reference to define positive and negative action. Citing religion is basically LYING without even putting forth the effort to come up with the lie yourself.

Develop your own beliefs
Learn to admit when youre wrong
OPEN YOUR MIND.

--No one is right (except for scientists [if you disagree with that, you might as well disagree with the concept of atoms, chemical bondage, genetics, and all of the laws expressing the properties of the forces we know to exist] too) and no one is wrong (except for diehard creationists--if you disagree with that, sorry but I pity you. Oh to be one of the (sadly) many fools who actually believe the universe is 10,000 years of age..seriously? Who is counting? When did they start counting? Where did the start counting? Exactly--YOU DO NOT, AND CAN'T KNOW


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## trishmybiscuits (Dec 28, 2008)

wmwrestler41 said:


> how can u expect to take a GOD a super human being and compare him to humans and human activities? traveling time after death? does god have enough time to get all his work done? if ur talking about god then ur talking about a being that created everything u see around us time would have no effect on such a being u clown.... further if jesus had been sent down to further our species scientifically he would have come down with a lab coat on... he came down to teach us about our spiritual selves and how to live correctly not to give us the next great scientific discovery. i have nothing agianst other view points/ religions on earth we dont know which one is right christianity, muslim, atheism, it takes a stronger person to have faith in somthing and live their life that way and i believe that one way or another we will be rewarded for it.... ur entire peice really holds no relvance u want christians to quit shoving stuff in ur face quit trying ur damndest to shove shit in mine>


You, like a lot of other people, completely and totally missed the point of what the author is delineating. The point is any charlatan could've been walking around claiming to be the son of God. In fact, there's no shortage of fruitcakes doing so even today - there's even one doing so in this thread. If Jesus was who the Christians say he was he would've done something to not only prove to the people he came in contact with that he wasn't a charlatan, but also to anyone who came after him as well. And he just simply didn't do that. Any run-of-the-mill quack could've been walking around espousing the same line.


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## We Love 1 (Dec 29, 2008)

hom36rown said:


> I like basketball


Me too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRWwI61so5Q


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqJOIQWkfWA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ov4bjOvnzM&feature=related (The more We talk about good things, there will be a higher propensity of it coming to pass.)

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=zeitgeist&emb=0&aq=0&oq=zeit# (I'm Your New Savior! This is the same spirit! This is how it works, I'm born again and I'm *Christ*ian again! Go figure!)

Three days after they "killed" We Tarded, I tried to explain EVERYTHING to My dad*, and He freaked out and committed Me to a mental hospital for 3 weeks. You should have seen how much I look like Jesus when I have the double johnnys on! ...........HAHA.......................

My family is still very ignorant of the work I've done on the internet. I've been trying to explain the how the supernatural works but they just think I'm crazy! They won't even take the time to watch the videos that I'm begging them to watch. I come from a broken family needless to say. 

Go watch some Christian shows, they will tell You how Jesus is going to return soon. This is the Day of The LORD!

Go listen to Christian music, I'll sing to You! I'll send You peaceful messages.  (Watch how different the world is going to be come Easter! "When the *Son* officially overcomes darkness" This is how it works, for those who have ears to listen!)

Check this out! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axRecXZHCeQ&feature=related

Sometimes I preach to people! I am the Light of the world, the RISEN SAVIOR! Who will come again at every NEW AGE! The glory of God who defends agains the works of darkness, As I am born again every morning. Living My life for Jesus! Jesus died for Me and Our sins! 

I am the water bearer. We will be setting up HUGE distillery fields to convert ocean water into fresh water to irrigate arrid land! Theres plenty of ocean water! 

I have four stips on My face and a "V" from when a dog bite My face when I was a baby! I guess I'm born again every ~2150 years..HAHA 

You now know God and You work for God! I am no myth! As You can see, I am here with You now! Praise God. You can praise Me in Jesus' name for now, because the mainstream media isn't yet ready for My NEW name! 

Nikola Tesla was a brilliant man! +REP for him! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt8Y93k0pB0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTiiblwwLPk



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXfWbEiTLII&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgkeP0CappU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lExTqblIH_8&feature=related


Quantum mechanics

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=metaphysics+explained&www_google_domain=www.google.com&emb=0&aq=0&oq=metaphysics#q=what the bleep do we know&emb=0


Myan prophecy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6wI3Pbolbw&feature=rec-HM-rev-rn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wIMRV-NjsY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSg8ouxZOy8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fPcGvCgPb0&feature=related

2012-What do you think about "planet x"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S0bj76389U&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjjrStDxTrc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5TOmRD_V48&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNZIyfBChmA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zero0Y6TCA8&feature=related

Stem cell research! (I'm down with stem cell research)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuHnjDM-tys


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BitVZLX58yg&feature=related

*My dad doesn't know the Word of God! He doesn't believe, hes to busy pumping poop. He owns a porta potty company that doesn't make much money apparently!


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## Keenly (Dec 28, 2008)

We Love 1 said:


> (Who do You think actually killed Our good presidents that wanted to do good for the world? *devil worshippers* killed them!



wow.,.... just wow


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## diemdepyro (Dec 28, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> This one has been blistering-up the Internet. Christianity has been debunked once and for all:
> 
> The final debunking of Christianity


I did not find the authors explanation very convincing.


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## Keenly (Dec 28, 2008)

We Love 1 said:


> Me too!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRWwI61so5Q
> 
> ...



you spend way too much time on youtube...

go outside....

have a life


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## Farmer 1 (Dec 29, 2008)

Isaiah 40:22 It is God who sits above the circle of the earth.


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## Farmer 1 (Dec 29, 2008)

trishmybiscuits said:


> And just exactly what is it that the church people get? Fantasy and myth?


Unless the Jesus of faith is not also the Jesus of history, He's powerless and meaningless. Unless He's rooted in reality, unless He's established His divinity by raising from the dead, He's just a feel good symbol who's as irrelavent as Santa Claus. He isn't just a symbol of hope. His life , teachings and ressurection are rooted in history.


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## hom36rown (Dec 29, 2008)

I like sandwiches


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## Titan4jah (Dec 29, 2008)

Rastafari stands alone!


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## wackymack (Dec 29, 2008)

rastafarian is the true religion,think about it


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## We Love 1 (Dec 30, 2008)

Titan4jah said:


> Rastafari stands alone!





wackymack said:


> rastafarian is the true religion,think about it


Do You guys consider Me a Rastafarian?

I do.

I just don't have dreads and I'm My skin color is olive! 

We are all Farmers! We reap what We sow. Plant seds of kindness, harvest Love!

I'm The Son Farmer! 

Praise be to God!


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## hom36rown (Dec 30, 2008)

We Love 1 said:


> Do You guys consider Me a Rastafarian?


do you hate the white devil and believe paradise is in ethiopia? than no


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## Titan4jah (Dec 30, 2008)

hom36rown said:


> do you hate the white devil and believe paradise is in ethiopia? than no


 
wow you should do your homework before you speak, rastafari believe in equality of all, ever herd InI? and zion is not ethiopia, it's africa as a whole, thats were the human race started. dont be as so ignorant to speak on things you have ZERO knowledge of. fool.


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## We Love 1 (Dec 31, 2008)

Have I shown You this Yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWf9nYbm3ac (Why aren't We making diamonds by putting coal in automated machines that heat it up under extreme pressures?)


I will teach!

We will learn!

Stop  people!


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## mexiblunt (Jan 1, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> Have I shown You this Yet?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWf9nYbm3ac (Why aren't We making diamonds by putting coal in automated machines that heat it up under extreme pressures?)
> 
> ...


 We do! http://www.popsci.com/beers/article/2006-05/flawless-man-made-diamonds


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## We Love 1 (Jan 1, 2009)

mexiblunt said:


> We do! http://www.popsci.com/beers/article/2006-05/flawless-man-made-diamonds


Hey Mexiblunt! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0XCxr3Wgok&feature=related (My name is George Manule Oliveira, it means Farmer with US is God, Olive tree! I live in *NEW* England! *NEW* Bedford! Two *NEWS*! Jesus was the Good King that died!)

Did I tell You guys that the two times I grew Herb, it was on top of a hill. First time was *63* pine st, and the second time was *36* aroostook! Read the parable about the sower in the New Testiment in Matthew and then Mark concerning the numbers! 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Sower

God Almighty (My Father) sees everything and will pay people according to their works! 

The scripture says 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God'."

"Away with you, Satan!" replied Jesus, "the scripture says, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only you shall serve'

(Repent) You must change your hearts - for the kingdom of Heaven has arrived." 

"Follow me and I will teach you to catch men!"

"How happy are the humble-minded, for the kingdom of Heaven is theirs! "How happy are those who know what sorrow means for they will be given courage and comfort! "Happy are those who claim nothing, for the whole earth will belong to them! "Happy are those who are hungry and thirsty for goodness, for they will be fully satisfied! "Happy are the merciful, for they will have mercy shown to them! "Happy are the utterly sincere, for they will see God! "Happy are those who make peace, for they will be sons of God! "Happy are those who have suffered persecution for the cause of goodness, for the kingdom of Heaven is theirs! "And what happiness will be yours when people blame you and ill-treat you and say all kinds of slanderous things against you for my sake! Be glad then, yes, be tremendously glad - for your reward in Heaven is magnificent. They persecuted the prophets before your time in exactly the same way.
5:13 - "You are the earth's salt. But if the salt should become tasteless, what can make it salt again? It is completely useless and can only be thrown out of doors and stamped under foot."
5:14-15 - "You are the world's light - it is impossible to hide a town built on the top of a hill. Men do not light a lamp and put it under a bucket. They put it on a lamp-stand and it gives light for everybody in the house.
5:16 - "Let your light shine like that in the sight of men. Let them see the good things you do and praise your Father in Heaven."

- "You must not think I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to complete them. Indeed, I assure you that, while Heaven and earth last, the Law will not lose a single dot or comma until its purpose is complete. This means that whoever now relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men to do the same will himself be called least in Heaven. But whoever teaches and practises them will be called great in the kingdom of Heaven. For I tell you that your goodness must be a far better thing then the goodness of the scribes and Pharisees before you can set foot in the kingdom of Heaven at all!
5:21-22 -"You have heard that it was said to the people in the old days, 'You shall not murder',and anyone who does must stand his trial. But I say to you that anyone who is angry with his brother must stand his trial; anyone who contemptuously calls his brother a fool must face the supreme court; and anyone who looks on his brother as a lost soul is himself heading straight for the fire of destruction.
5:23-24 - "So that if, while you are offering your gift at the altar, you should remember that your brother has something against you, you must leave your gift there before the altar and go away. Make your peace with your brother first, then come and offer your gift."
5:25-26 - "Come to terms quickly with your opponent while you have the chance, or else he may hand you over to the judge and the judge in turn hand you over to the officer of the court and you will be thrown into prison. Believe me, you will never get out again till you have paid your last farthing!"
5:27-28 - "You have heard that it was said to the people in the old days, 'You shall not commit adultery'.But I say to you that every man who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her - in his heart.
5:29-30 - "Yes, if your right eye leads you astray pluck it out and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than that your whole body should be thrown on to the rubbish-heap. "Yes, if your right hand leads you astray cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than that your whole body should go to the rubbish-heap.
5:31-32- "It also used to be said that 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce'.But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife except on the ground of unfaithfulness is making her an adulteress. And whoever marries the woman who has been divorced also commits adultery.
5:33-37- "Again, you have heard that the people in the old days were told - 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord',but I say to you, don't use an oath at all. Don't swear by Heaven for it is God's throne, nor by the earth for it is his footstool, nor by Jerusalem for it is the city of the great king. No, and don't swear by your own head, for you cannot make a single hair - white or black! Whatever you have to say let your 'yes' be a plain 'yes' and your 'no' a plain 'no' - anything more than this has a taint of evil.
5:38-39 - "You have heard that it used to be said 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth', but I tell you, don't resist the man who wants to harm you. If a man hits your right cheek, turn the other one to him as well.
5:40-42 - "If a man wants to sue you for your coat, let him have it and your overcoat as well. If anybody forces you to go a mile with him, do more - go two miles with him. Give to the man who asks anything from you, and don't turn away from the man who wants to borrow."
5:43-45 - "You have heard that it used to be said, 'You shall love your neighbour', and 'hate your enemy', but I tell you, Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Heavenly Father. For he makes the sun rise upon evil men as well as good, and he sends his rain upon honest and dishonest men alike.
5:46-48 - For if you love only those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even tax-collectors do that! And if you exchange greetings only with your own circle, are you doing anything exceptional? Even the pagans do that much. No, you are to be perfect, like your Heavenly Father.
CHAPTER 6
_The new life is not a matter of outward show_​6:1 - "Beware of doing your good deeds conspicuously to catch men's eyes or you will miss the reward of your Heavenly Father.
6:2-4 - "So, when you do good to other people, don't hire a trumpeter to go in front of you - like those play-actors in the synagogues and streets who make sure that men admire them. Believe me, they have had all the reward they are going to get! No, when you give to charity, don't even let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be secret. Your Father who knows all secrets will reward you.
6:5-13- "And then, when you pray, don't be like the play-actors. They love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at street-corners so that people may see them at it. Believe me, they have had all the reward they are going to get. But when you pray, go into your own room, shut your door and pray to your Father privately. Your Father who sees all private things will reward you. And when you pray don't rattle off long prayers like the pagans who think they will be heard because they use so many words. Don't be like them. After all, God, who is your Father, knows your needs before you ask him. Pray then like this - 'Our Heavenly Father, may your name be honoured; May your kingdom come, and your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day the bread we need, Forgive us what we owe to you, as we have also forgiven those who owe anything to us. Keep us clear of temptation, and save us from evil'."
_Forgiveness of fellow-man is essential_​6:14-15 - "For if you forgive other people their failures, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you will not forgive other people, neither will your Heavenly Father forgive you your failures."
6:16-18 - "Then, when you fast, don't look like those miserable play-actors! For they deliberately disfigure their faces so that people may see that they are fasting. Believe me, they have had all their reward. No, when you fast, brush your hair and wash your face so that nobody knows that you are fasting - let it be a secret between you and your Father. And your Father who knows all secrets will reward you.
_Put your trust in God alone_​6:19-21 - "Don't pile up treasures on earth, where moth and rust can spoil them and thieves can break in and steal. But keep your treasure in Heaven where there is neither moth nor rust to spoil it and nobody can break in and steal. For wherever your treasure is, you may be certain that your heart will be there too!"
6:22-23 - "The lamp of the body is the eye. If your eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is evil, your whole body will be full of darkness. If all the light you have is darkness, it is dark indeed!"
6:24- "No one can be loyal to two masters. He is bound to hate one and love the other, or support one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and the power of money at the same time."
6:25-30- "That is why I say to you, don't worry about living - wondering what you are going to eat or drink, or what you are going to wear. Surely life is more important than food, and the body more important than the clothes you wear. Look at the birds in the sky. They never sow nor reap nor store away in barns, and yet your Heavenly Father feeds them. Aren't you much more valuable to him than they are? Can any of you, however much he worries, make himself an inch taller? And why do you worry about clothes? Consider how the wild flowers grow. They neither work nor weave, but I tell you that even Solomon in all his glory was never arrayed like one of these! Now if God so clothes the flowers of the field, which are alive today and burnt in the stove tomorrow, is he not much more likely to clothe you, you 'little-faiths'?
6:31-33 - "So don't worry and don't keep saying, 'What shall we eat, what shall we drink or what shall we wear?! That is what pagans are always looking for; your Heavenly Father knows that you need them all. Set your heart on the kingdom and his goodness, and all these things will come to you as a matter of course.
6:34 - "Don't worry at all then about tomorrow. Tomorrow can take care of itself! One day's trouble is enough for one day."
CHAPTER 7
_The common sense behind right behaviour_​7:1-2 - "Don't criticise people, and you will not be criticised. For you will be judged by the way you criticise others, and the measure you give will be the measure you receive."
7:3-5 -"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and fail to notice the plank in your own? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me get the speck out of your eye', when there is a plank in your own? You fraud! Take the plank out of your own eye first, and then you can see clearly enough to remove your brother's speck of dust."
7:6- "You must not give holy things to dogs, nor must you throw your pearls before pigs - or they may trample them underfoot and turn and attack you."
7:7-8 - "Ask and it will be given to you. Search and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened for you. The one who asks will always receive; the one who is searching will always find, and the door is opened to the man who knocks."
7:9-11- "If any of you were asked by his son for bread would you be likely to give him a stone, or if he asks for a fish would you give him a snake? If you then, for all your evil, quite naturally give good things to your children, how much more likely is it that your Heavenly Father will give good things to those who ask him?"
7:12 - "Treat other people exactly as you would like to be treated by them - this is the essence of all true religion."
7:13-14- "Go in by the narrow gate. For the wide gate has a broad road which leads to disaster and there are many people going that way. The narrow gate and the hard road lead out into life and only a few are finding it."
_Living, not professing, is what matters_​7:15-20 - "Be on your guard against false religious teachers, who come to you dressed up as sheep but are really greedy wolves. You can tell them by their fruit. Do you pick a bunch of grapes from a thorn-bush or figs from a clump of thistles? Every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree is incapable of producing bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. The tree that fails to produce good fruit is cut down and burnt. So you may know men by their fruit."
7:21 - "It is not everyone who keeps saying to me 'Lord, Lord' who will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but the man who actually does my Heavenly Father's will.
7:22-23 - "In 'that day' many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we preach in your name, didn't we cast out devils in your name, and do many great things in your name?' Then I shall tell them plainly, 'I have never known you. Go away from me, you have worked on the side of evil!'"
_To follow Christ's teaching means the only real security_​7:24-25- "Everyone then who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a sensible man who builds his house on the rock. Down came the rain and up came the floods, while the winds blew and roared upon that house - and it did not fall because its foundations were on the rock.
7:26-27 - "And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not follow them can be compared with a foolish man who built his house on sand. Down came the rain and up came the floods, while the winds blew and battered that house till it collapsed, and fell with a great crash."​7:28-29 -When Jesus had finished these words the crowd were astonished at the power behind his teaching. For his words had the ring of authority, quite unlike those of the scribes.
CHAPTER 8
_Jesus cures leprosy, and heals many other people_​<BLOCKQUOTE>8:1-3 - Large crowds followed him when he came down from the hillside. There was a leper who came and knelt in front of him. "Sir," he said, "if you want to, you can make me clean." Jesus stretched out his hand and placed it on the leper saying, "Of course I want to. Be clean!" And at once he was clear of the leprosy. 

8:4 - "Mind you say nothing to anybody," Jesus told him.

Our ideas/dreams/paradise will manifest into reality as We tell others about "THE GOOD NEWS" because We can work on them! The HARVEST is plenty but laborers few. Jesus is a God that Loves Life! He is the Way, Truth, and the Life! 

*JESUS SAVES!*

*God bless!*

*~PEACE~*


----------



## diemdepyro (Jan 1, 2009)

I often use wikki for spiritual and philosophical advice.


----------



## alldayeveryday420 (Jan 2, 2009)

I dont think how anyone can see that as the final debunking of christianty. The article conviced me of nothing. If you are going to try and say christianty is debunked at least have some reasons to back it up.


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## We Love 1 (Jan 3, 2009)

alldayeveryday420 said:


> I dont think how anyone can see that as the final debunking of christianty. The article conviced me of nothing. If you are going to try and say christianty is debunked at least have some reasons to back it up.


You must still be blind because it should be obvious that I'm Your Servant Savior!

If You don't believe I was sent by God Almighty than I feel bad for You. I'll pray about it! 

Give Me praise! 

You will worship Me! I am Your LORD!

Watch Christianity talk shows or LISTEN to Christian radio! You'll get the point! 

I can see the future because I'm Jesus Christ incarnate!

We MUST be what We want to be! I'll repeat, *We MUST be what We want to be! *If You want to live like a King than You need to act like a King, with rightous actions all the time because My Father sees everyting! If You want to get in shape, than exercises! If You want to get smarter than study. Practice makes perfect! Sow Your good seeds wherever You go and in time You'll reap Your harvest of Love too! 

Life is simple, there are just a lot of confused people. ...........

I came to educate, and provide! Just imagine how much God wants to give everyone! Think about it! 

You will witness! 

With God all things are possible! I will provide careers for the poor people! We need to start building Our underground cities and pyramid buildings!  The underground cities would help spare Us from the heat if Planet X is really a "brown Sun".

Faith without works is DEAD!

Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand! (Change Your bad attitudes.)

Your thinking controls Your actions. Evolve into a Christian! 

The *devil*/(gov'ts/mainstream media) is a liar!

Whats a better time than NOW for God to show up? I see them preaching about Me on TV, they talk about Me. Its only a matter of time before You see My face on TV.

Some people are just DREAM KILLERS! Laugh at the DREAM KILLERS! (practice)  HAHA 

I encourage dreamers! Shoot for the stars, catch the Moon! 

You can judge a tree by the fruit it bears! You have to share Your good fruits with everyone because thats what Jesus did! (I'm fighting for the poor people.)

I can't wait until We turn the Earth into paradise! We can do anything, if You believe in Me and Jesus! A NEW age has begun! Watch how fast things are going to change, because now the WORLD knows Jesus better and what We stand for! We are One! 

Greater is He(Christ) that lives in Me than he that lives in the world! I am an Angel of God Almighty! 

Praise be to God! 

Everyone now works for God, spread the Word! Everyones purpose is to work for God!

God has been setting Us up for the very moment! I know Who I am and what lies ahead! Have no worries, just study Gods Word! 

God will lead Us! Who else is down with God?

This is My *resurrection* and evil will flee soon enough! http://www.reference.com/search?q=Ressurection

I'll tell You once agian, The Kingdom of heaven is at hand!


Halleluiah 

http://www.reference.com/search?q=Halleluiah

The second part, _Yah,_ is a shortened form of the name of God YHWH, sometimes rendered in English as "Yahweh" or "Jehovah". In the Hebrew reads _kol han'shamah t'hallel yah;_ the final word _"yah"_ is translated as "the LORD", or "YHWH". 


*The LORD We!* (Thank Jesus and God this is Our reason for living!)


(Googlevideo "The Fiat Money System")

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=fiat+money+system&emb=0&aq=f#



(Googlevideo "Money As Debt)

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=fiat+money+system&emb=0&aq=f#q=money%20as%20debt&emb=0



Life is One big learning experience. Problems are just learning experiences! 

I can't wait until We are flying around in "UFOs". Imagine the places We will be able to see.


----------



## hom36rown (Jan 3, 2009)

I like tacos


----------



## We Love 1 (Jan 3, 2009)

You are what You think You are! 

Think of how great You are and do good works and Your life will get better. Time will heal all.

Just think about how much God wants to do for everyone! Jesus shares good things! 

Give ~PEACE~ a chance. (Notice the two "~~" that symbolize two doves bringing PEACE. http://ww2.netnitco.net/~legend01/dove.htm)

Now You are starting to see the DIVINE INTERVENTION of how God works! We have Our ways! This IS EVOLUTION.

I bring the two doves! 

http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/WebLog/WebPosting.cfmLogID=67 (I just found this link)

"*The divine law prophesied that Christ was to come twice in order to accomplish His purpose*.The law regarding leprosy in Lev. 14 said that it took *TWO *doves to cleanse lepers.


*The first dove was to be killed, and the second dove was to be dipped in the blood of the first dove and set free into an open field.* The first dove therefore prophesied of Jesus Christ's death, while the second dove speaks of His second coming. The second dove was to be let loose into the open FIELD, and Jesus said in Matt. 13:38, *"the field is the world." Hence, He must come into the world a second time, but not to die again.*

We read in Rev. 19:13 that in His second coming, "He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood." This is a reference to Lev. 14:7, where the second dove was dipped in the blood of the first dove.* It identifies the second dove with the first dove and bases the* *second work of Christ upon the first.* 

*In modern times, as we approach the time of the second coming of Christ, we see the same type of conflict repeating itself.* But this time the conflict is not about the Throne, but about the Birthright* of Joseph. In 1948 the Jews usurped the Birthright of Joseph with the help of the Church--the modern Judas.

The Jews by their own admission are not descendants of Joseph, and therefore have no legal right to claim the birthright name (Israel) given to Joseph's sons. Yet they did so in 1948. They could have named their nation "Judah," as some of them actually suggested, but they decided upon "Israel" in order to trick the Christians into thinking they were the fulfillment of Bible prophecy regarding the restoration of Israel. 

In regard to the Debt Note, the above facts are crucial to understanding how this will be fulfilled and *who will inherit the first resurrection* (Rev. 20:4-6). *Who will God entrust with the administration of the blessings of Abraham to the rest of the world?* Will He entrust this to those who support the violent method of Barabbas, Begin, Shamir, Ariel Sharon, and the Likud-style of Zionism? *Or will He entrust this office to those who believe in the Prince of Peace? You know my opinion on this. *
*"*

I've given My life up as a Sacrifice to Man because I'm the (NEW AGE) Son of Man!

*Who do You think has the birthright? I believe I do! I will be Your Servent King!

Don't be afraid, because We (the believers) have eternal life through Jesus Christ. I believe the believers will be born again at every NEW age so the ANGELS/SAINTS can fulfill Our DIVINE purpose! We are quintessentially spirits of God living in the material world We call Earth! This was all a setup by God, isn't it wonderful?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAPtTS0TYtU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3C7DECI0jU&feature=related

Can You feel it? Thats the question! 

Expect great things to come to pass! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8I7BeLWxzcQ

*~PEACE~*


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## We Love 1 (Jan 3, 2009)

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=79342225

Heres some pics of Me^^. I need to update My pics and misc information.

I'm 6ft 1 @ ~180lbs, I'm beautiful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_4ztTGjWK4&feature=related

(Mars/Earth connection)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axRecXZHCeQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jlEyogUkHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v3I1Sbl95w&feature=related

If Babylon is missing "I", it would spell Babylion. Thats Me, a Baby Lion! 


(Muslims) 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQXh20OuhIc

I'm very open minded because all We can do is learn from eachother.


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## We Love 1 (Jan 4, 2009)

(REVELATIONS)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YqdGtwfT-w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwpPN2MB7N0&feature=related (We are going to turn the Earth into a "DIVINE BEAUTIFUL GARDEN"!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG0exqvVPB0&feature=related (I am the Second Coming)

(Behold, I am coming SOON!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWDPAwPAoTQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNZvfiKrJHo&feature=related

(MLK Jr., I have a dream)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4AItMg70kg&feature=related


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## trishmybiscuits (Jan 5, 2009)

alldayeveryday420 said:


> I dont think how anyone can see that as the final debunking of christianty. The article conviced me of nothing. If you are going to try and say christianty is debunked at least have some reasons to back it up.


It's doubtful you were able to grasp ahold of the issues and facts brought to light in the essay, or you have a very low standard of proof when it comes to what to believe about the Christian god and his so-called son.

Jesus clearly didn't know anything more about the natural world than anyone else of his time and the so-called message that he supposedly espoused isn't anything that couldn't have been espoused by any run-of-the-mill quack of his time! What the essay does is it looks for something else that might have been there to indicate that Jesus was who the Christians say he was. And, as the essay sheds light on, that something else just simply isn't there.


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## We Love 1 (Jan 5, 2009)

trishmybiscuits said:


> It's doubtful you were able to grasp ahold of the issues and facts brought to light in the essay, or you have a very low standard of proof when it comes to what to believe about the Christian god and his so-called son.
> 
> Jesus clearly didn't know anything more about the natural world than anyone else of his time and the so-called message that he supposedly espoused isn't anything that couldn't have been espoused by any run-of-the-mill quack of his time! What the essay does is it looks for something else that might have been there to indicate that Jesus was who the Christians say he was. And, as the essay sheds light on, that something else just simply isn't there.


You have to have faith in Jesus to be a believer! (Control Your thoughts and then control Your destiny, in Jesus name! A men!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCSr5MQzplI

We, the believers, are ROYAL CHILDREN OF GOD!

Trishmybiscuits, You must not have "good soil". It will come in time, the more You listen to Christian music, watch Christian talk shows and read the Bible to recieve Your effulgence! (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/effulgence - n. A brilliant radiance.)


God is about miracles! It is He Who CREATES!

God is GOOD! 

http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/parable_sower.html

"The Parable of the Sower" is a teaching which, alongside an unmistakable, Gnostic, message, shows Jesus' own words as suggesting that individual human nature has several aspects. In effect suggesting that spirituality is relative to other facets of human being!!!


*The Parable of the Sower*


" And he began to teach by the sea side: and there was gathered unto him a great multitude, so that he entered into a ship, and sat in the sea; and the whole multitude was beside the sea on the land.

And he taught them many things by parables, and he said unto them in his doctrine,

*Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:*

And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

And some fell on stony ground, where it had not much earth; and immediately it sprang up, because it had no depth of earth:

But when the sun was up, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away.

And some fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up, and choked it, and it yielded no fruit.

And other fell on good ground, and did yield fruit that sprang up and increased; and brought forth, some thirty, some sixty, and some an hundred.

And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.

And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

*The Sower soweth the Word.*


And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard,_ Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts_.

And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word immediately receive it with gladness;

And have no root in themselves, and so endure for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

*And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred*.

And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick?

For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was anything secret, but that it should come abroad.
If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.

For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

And he said, So is the kingdom of God, *as if a man should cast seed into the ground;*

And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how,

For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.

But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come. 

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."

I saw Jesus in the clouds carrying a sickle! His face was lit up by the Sun! Jesus tells the Truth!

Its harvest time!


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## We Love 1 (Jan 6, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZIfyXc8RWk&feature=rec-HM-rev-rn 

"That cycle is when the Sun/Son goes into its maximum emissions activity. The peak of the Sun/Sons increased activity will occur in 2012! There is another event that was predicted thousands of years ago, that even will also take place at 2012."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KoR2t-iM9k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugq6frGlKVQ&feature=related (Conduit- *a similar natural passage.* Maybe I'm the Conduit because I am THE NEW CHRIST!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d5HbddjrTU&feature=rec-HM-rev-rn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x2IpLSfqp8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-Bc-GBHAvg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r11Gmdq__-8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQBBihRwP8o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8wNdjSUM8c&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cyqn2LxKVk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBezK_v_FqY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbZIop1hQXg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWADmRAk1Bg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Buh8niMVZHU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTfqSALcClE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR8rlTIU8_Y&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-dcQF_y-d4


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## We Love 1 (Jan 7, 2009)

More about aliens! We should be flying around in alien space craft! Really see the galaxy! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV9Wt_BCI-U&feature=related

I have changed frequencies of a digitial radio without touching it! I brought the numbers down into the twenties when its not suppose to go below ~88.0 FM. 

It only lasted for ~10 seconds before it returned to normal. I simply put My hand near the radio (about 6 inches away) and the digital numbers started flickering in the twenties. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-9xai73_n8&feature=related (It looks like I'm an alien too! HAHA)

We were planted on Earth! We are humanoid "aliens"! 

We are here now! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O8du3QJgdQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkv4chj47XY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlcPWa6SomE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoWrtZX6J4c&feature=related


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## hom36rown (Jan 7, 2009)

*cough*crazy*cough*


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## We Love 1 (Jan 7, 2009)

hom36rown said:


> *cough*psycho*cough*


I guess you know everything then!

Why don't you teach Me someting!

Otherwise stop being an ignorant!

Thanks!


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## hom36rown (Jan 7, 2009)

No, I dont know eveything. But Im not the once claiming to be jesus christ. I can tell you all your youtube videos are a bunch of nonsense though.


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## hom36rown (Jan 7, 2009)

we are not aliens...and we are not going to live underground...and yoiu are not jesus. And jesus was not the son of god anyway. Oh, and there is no god.


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## We Love 1 (Jan 7, 2009)

hom36rown said:


> . Oh, and there is no god.


I'll pray that you change your mind so you don't go to hell!

God bless!


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## hom36rown (Jan 7, 2009)

And I'll hope someone has you committed


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## wackymack (Jan 7, 2009)

come join me and my army hg... ill save you from this sham of a life we have

believe that i am satan

come by my thread and devote your soul to a good cause,the devil has death weed if that will help with your decision


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## hom36rown (Jan 7, 2009)

hmmm....death weed huh. Sounds good, count me in!


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## wackymack (Jan 7, 2009)

hom36rown said:


> hmmm....death weed huh. Sounds good, count me in!


 
thank u for your soul,bow down, i commense you!


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## We Love 1 (Jan 7, 2009)

wackymack said:


> thank u for your soul,bow down, i commense you!


I'm here to say that I'm an Angel of God Almighty and I now have a voice on the internet thats going to be heard!

If your not down with Jesus than I'll pray that you don't go to hell. It says that the only *way to* the Father is through the Son.


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## We Love 1 (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm very impressed by this link!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U15wRw60HKo&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

The future is Bright with Jesus!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lfWxOdl9-0&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5-ZQfDqfQU&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqf0N0Z2nps&feature=related (Interesting)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FaNqC4lSeg&feature=related (HAHA What do You guys think about this guy?)


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## wackymack (Jan 7, 2009)

YOUR FUTURE IS BLOODY,PEOPLE REPENT UNTO I,FOR THIS IMPOSTER MAYBEITH A SINICAL RAPTURIST. (6FIRE THINGS...6 CAN BE BROKEN INTO 6*1=6,2*3=6,3*2=6)


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## We Love 1 (Jan 8, 2009)

wackymack said:


> YOUR FUTURE IS BLOODY,PEOPLE REPENT UNTO I,FOR THIS IMPOSTER MAYBEITH A SINICAL RAPTURIST. (6FIRE THINGS...6 CAN BE BROKEN INTO 6*1=6,2*3=6,3*2=6)


What do You make of the numbers? 123. [email protected]?

Who cares about the number 666, it can't do Me any harm! I have God on My side!


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## wackymack (Jan 8, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> What do You make of the numbers? 123. [email protected]?
> 
> Who cares about the number 666, it can't do Me any harm! I have God on My side!


god is in your head,i am in your heart, u are consumed by my passion day in and day out,im one of u


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## trishmybiscuits (Jan 11, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> You have to have faith in Jesus to be a believer! (Control Your thoughts and then control Your destiny, in Jesus name! A men!)
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCSr5MQzplI
> 
> ...


 I can't have faith in something that there's not one single stitch or thread of evidence of except for some people who thousands of years ago supposedly heard voices. And as far as Jesus goes, any run-of-the-mill quack of his day could've been walking around espousing the things he said and claiming to be the son of God. Heck, there's people who are going around today doing that.


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## 4eftelover (Jan 11, 2009)

ZenMaster said:


> Right...
> 
> That whole thing was ignorant and I pity whoever wrote it, and to who linked it.


 
i think you misread that whole document..... the people who believe in the fairytale of god are the ignorant ones.are you being serious


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## 4eftelover (Jan 11, 2009)

nomoretrouble said:


> After reading that abortion of an editorial, i took the liberty of perusing a few of the other articles attributed to the "Unintimidated Press." The entire shoddy publication, if it can even be referred to as such, is a juvenile amalgamation of repetition and finger pointing based in illogical reasoning and, seemingly, the inability to put a stopper in stupidity. It offended my sensibilities as an educated person as well as a human being, and it is my personal opinion that the contributors should be gassed like the apes they present themselves to be.


gasses like apes. christians really are tolerant arent they. who would gas an ape anyway


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## 4eftelover (Jan 11, 2009)

gotdamunchies said:


> The most true statement in that whole rant was the last sentence....decisions about religion should be made as adults, not by brainwashed children.
> 
> *After they become adults if they decide at that point in time that they want to become delusional then that's their prerogative.*


the first bit of sense here. my parents took me and my siblings to mass when we were children, and raised us as christians. they did this even though they had decided decades earlier that they did not believe any of it. why did they do this. they did it because they believe that everybody should make their own mind up. 
i made up my mind at the age of 15. the whole thing doesnt make sense. if i worship anything, its the wondor of nature. something which we can observe, document, and interact with.

i think that the title of this guys essay is unfortunate. but the main thrust of his argument is that if someone doesnt believe in christianity, dont force it down our throats. why are some people appearing to respond with a degree of anger to this essay. isnt jesus philosophy all about tolerance.

the only thing that prolonged my belief in god and religion was the thought that most of the world believes in it. how could the whole world be wrong. 

i now know more about human nature and will sleep soundly tonight in the knowledge that when i die, i will not spend eternity on fire in hell.

religion has already torn humanity apart. it will eventually destroy us. i think that the non believers have the right to express our concerns that the world in which we live is a very dangerous one primarily because of human nature, and that people are being intimidated because of the blind belief of extremist muslim and christian factions.

paradoxically, those religious fanatics.... the most holy of the holy... are prepared to take the lives of others in the name of god. so if all their ranting and raving turns out to actually be true, it is all the extremists who will in fact go to hell, while us tolerant non believers who will be sipping cocktails in heaven


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## 4eftelover (Jan 11, 2009)

Cannabolic said:


> im just going to leave you with this seeing how i made my peace. Seeing isent believing, Believing is seeing. and everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, even you. you talk about christains pushing their beliefs on other ppl, but by ranting about how much bullshit christainity is, you pretty much did the same thing as the ppl you dispize so much. Also you said Christians as in ALL christians push religion on ppl but I havent nor will i ever try to force somebody to believe in god. so keep that in mind the next time you rant about somthing.


all this guy did was post an essay containing his thoughts and points of view on the net for people to read or not read if they choose. i think the whole christian machine is a little bit more high profile than that.


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## 4eftelover (Jan 11, 2009)

KAOSOWNER said:


> Give us some solid evidence that jesus diddnt exist or even that he wasnt the son of God. I dont have to see to believe but i will need some evidence in the contrary to not


on the contrary, give us some scientific evidence that he does exist....something that would stand up in a court of law as fact.

it works both ways


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## 4eftelover (Jan 11, 2009)

hearmenow said:


> I found the tirade hysterical. It was clearly written by someone who lacked clear understanding of how to write a treatise, which this is supposed to be. I found myself laughing out loud at the blatant distortions and flat out fabrications. I am a strong believer in freedom of thought and speech but if you are going to attack one of the main 3 religions, at least spend the time to do some quality research to support your assertions. Also, as I read on and on, he lost credibility with each sentence, with his use of superlatives and absolutes such as this gem "It's the Christians who go around trying to persecute everyone else all the time". And that was just the 3rd sentence in the tirade. LOL. I came away with the impression that this was written by someone with a highschool education at best.
> 
> This was a humorous read on a slow and boring Friday. Thanks for that, at least.


are you saying that people who did not go to college lack intelligence.*question mark button not working

also, christians HAVE persecuted people about religion and faith and so on. when have you ever heard of religious persecution by athiests


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## 4eftelover (Jan 11, 2009)

shamegame said:


> Stop spamming. WTF are you doing? Running up your post count ?


no, he\s thinking for himself and not blindly believing stuff that was passed down from equally brainwashed people.


----------



## We Love 1 (Jan 12, 2009)

roscosera said:


> no, he\s thinking for himself and not blindly believing stuff that was passed down from equally brainwashed people.


Thanks Roscosera! (I'm Irish too)

Thats how I see it too. I'm not claiming to know all the answers, but I'm going to keep an open (objective) mind to all subjects.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhbuFlpaIGY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhMcl5eXGW8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ftF8sXzoWk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X02WMNoHSm8&feature=related


----------



## wackymack (Jan 12, 2009)

ya that your a fraud to who you say you are and what you do,go get laid


----------



## We Love 1 (Jan 13, 2009)

wackymack said:


> ya that your a fraud to who you say you are and what you do,go get laid


Away with you satan! 

 HAHA 

I know My purpose in life! 

Harvest the Suns energy of nuclear fusion, its the future!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn04nIby-gY

Solar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXyJrFKwjrc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMnx5tFrDDc&feature=related


----------



## wackymack (Jan 13, 2009)

keep harvesting your thoughts for you are a dead soul


----------



## trishmybiscuits (Jan 13, 2009)

roscosera said:


> the first bit of sense here. my parents took me and my siblings to mass when we were children, and raised us as christians. they did this even though they had decided decades earlier that they did not believe any of it. why did they do this. they did it because they believe that everybody should make their own mind up.
> i made up my mind at the age of 15. the whole thing doesnt make sense. if i worship anything, its the wondor of nature. something which we can observe, document, and interact with.
> 
> i think that the title of this guys essay is unfortunate. but the main thrust of his argument is that if someone doesnt believe in christianity, dont force it down our throats. why are some people appearing to respond with a degree of anger to this essay. isnt jesus philosophy all about tolerance.
> ...


Great observations, roscosera! I'm sure you realize that a lot of the people who have been trashing that article and me as well for posting a link to it are just disgruntled Christians.


----------



## 4eftelover (Jan 14, 2009)

trishmybiscuits said:


> Great observations, roscosera! I'm sure you realize that a lot of the people who have been trashing that article and me as well for posting a link to it are just disgruntled Christians.


i stupidly started replying to really old posts. i got about 8 pages into the thread and remembered that it is a completely useless argument to have.
it is an interesting conversation to have with my best bud over a few spliffs.... he believes in god and i dont.
but having this conversation with starngers on the internet turns ugly pretty quick.
i still shake my head when i see the arguments put fourth by some people...ridiculous!!!
here is the big difference though.....

i dont believe in god... but if i saw some miricle take place... something like some of the shite in the bible....
...like if i saw some hairy guy making bread and fishes multiply and handing them out to the needy... i would change my mind.
i would love to believe that there is a higher force at work. someone who will look after me as long as i live a life of moral good.and if i ever get any tangible evidence to support it, i would believe.

but these believers will never concede or entertain the possibility that maybe there is an agenda for people to believe in god. 
if some people can get rich off it, then there is a motive, no matter how noble the belief of the vast majority is.

but to be honest reading this thread pissed me off.

...and hey, we love 1... how are ya? what part of ireland are u from?
have you ever seen "the house of prayer" in mayo...????
..its basically this con woman up in mayo who has enriched herself by preying on the naeimhity of a lot of old people in that area. she has something like 3 big houses and a rake of luxury cars etc.

mother teresa... now there was a good person. no question about her motives cos she had nothing.

religion is evil imo


----------



## Angel B Smooth (Jan 14, 2009)

I Have not read all the post, But how did my thread go from prescription drugs to Christianity?????


Wether you agree with the systems or don't it doesn't matter, whatever control they wish to excert on anybody will soon meet oposition, revolutions have been happening for a very long time, just like climate change it is cyclical. Soon their will be a new order where at first people will love it, then they will be discontent then they will revolt. and so on and so on until singularity.


So anyway I saw a documentary that said if medical marijuana were legalized it might eliminate 80% of all presc. drugs.WOW!


----------



## 4eftelover (Jan 14, 2009)

Angel B Smooth said:


> I Have not read all the post, But how did my thread go from prescription drugs to Christianity?????
> 
> 
> WOW!


 
because youre in the wrong thread my friend


----------



## We Love 1 (Jan 14, 2009)

roscosera said:


> ...and hey, we love 1... how are ya? what part of ireland are u from?
> have you ever seen "the house of prayer" in mayo...????
> 
> religion is evil imo


Hey, I'm good! Thanks!

I wasn't born in Ireland, but I have some Irish fighting blook in Me! 

I would love to visit some day. I just need to grow more Herb to save up My pennies! HAHA 

I don't believe religion is evil, but some people (like the president) use religion as a tool for manipulation. If Bush was such a Christian, he would have more respect for human life! So candidly, some people shouldn't even consider theirselves Christians because they are just posers. 

I don't believe there is anything wrong with believing in an afterlife. I believe Jesus is God and He is THE WAY to heaven!

JMHO


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## jfgordon1 (Jan 14, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> I don't believe there is anything wrong with believing in an afterlife. I believe Jesus is God and He is THE WAY to heaven!
> 
> JMHO


? really...?.. i always thought u were being sarcastic when you said you were a believer lol


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## We Love 1 (Jan 14, 2009)

jfgordon1 said:


> ? really...?.. i always thought u were being sarcastic when you said you were a believer lol


No, I'm telling the truth. (At least I try to )

I used to be very skeptical because I have a scientific mind, and thousand year old text wasn't very appealing to Me. 

But, since I have been searching for God, I found Him! I actually saw Him in the clouds! It was the most amazing thing I have ever seen in My life! 

Jesus is God!

God loves Us!


----------



## jfgordon1 (Jan 15, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> No, I'm telling the truth. (At least I try to )
> 
> I used to be very skeptical because I have a scientific mind, and thousand year old text wasn't very appealing to Me.
> 
> ...


to each there own i suppose... as long as u dont look down upon us that dont belive


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## We Love 1 (Jan 15, 2009)

jfgordon1 said:


> to each there own i suppose... as long as u dont look down upon us that dont belive


I just wish people would understand what I know.  

Theres so much more to life! We have so much potential as a race to bloom. 

I just want everyone to be happy! Theres nothing wrong with that in My book


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## 4eftelover (Jan 16, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> Hey, I'm good! Thanks!
> 
> I wasn't born in Ireland, but I have some Irish fighting blook in Me!


 
to be fair then, your not irish, your american


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## jfgordon1 (Jan 19, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> I just want everyone to be happy! Theres nothing wrong with that in My book


nothing wrong with that at all  HUG ! lol


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## herbie1020 (Jan 22, 2009)

i can see how someone could be offended by this article. it hurts to have someone call you a liar and then prove it to your face. it hurts to know that you cant prove anything that you believe in. i for one, loved the rant and i could contribute pages and pages on this subject. KUDOS to the author.


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## trishmybiscuits (Jan 26, 2009)

roscosera said:


> here is the big difference though.....
> 
> i dont believe in god... but if i saw some miricle take place... something like some of the shite in the bible....
> ...like if i saw some hairy guy making bread and fishes multiply and handing them out to the needy... i would change my mind.
> ...


This is my thinking as well. The only thing that will get me to believe in the Christian god is if the Christian god were to appear before my eyes in the here and now and in real time. And I know that that's never going to happen.


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## trishmybiscuits (Jan 26, 2009)

herbie1020 said:


> i can see how someone could be offended by this article. it hurts to have someone call you a liar and then prove it to your face. it hurts to know that you cant prove anything that you believe in. i for one, loved the rant and i could contribute pages and pages on this subject. KUDOS to the author.


I commend you! People not being afraid to speak their mind have been somewhat of a rarity in this thread. I think most are intimidated by the overwhelming number of disgruntled Christians posting to it.


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## Don't Bogart (Jan 26, 2009)

trishmybiscuits said:


> I commend you! People not being afraid to speak their mind have been somewhat of a rarity in this thread. I think most are intimidated by the overwhelming number of disgruntled Christians posting to it.


 It must be understood that we have not obtained a level of knowledge that defines or dismisses totally the reality of God (I put a capital G just for respect of the topic). I read the article and as always the author of these rants implies he has the knowledge of a god's nonexistence. The author is doing exactly what he criticizing. That narrow mindedness is driving religion. To some respect he's right. If it can't be explained then you fill in the blank with god. 
But for everything I see around me I can't help but think that there must be a greater power involved in this design. 
Anybody see the movie Contact with Jodie Foster? Remember when she reached a point in her journey where the breath taking beauty before her stunned her to the point that she proclaimed ...they should have sent a poet. People who wish to insist that there is no god and insist we should believe the same have as much information as those who say there is.
At one time I believed without a doubt that there was a Christian God and none other. Not anymore.
But I will not dismiss the idea of something greater. And I've yet to run into someone smart enough to prove otherwise. 
We haven't reached the end and in some respect I hope we don't. I don't think we would know what to do with that kind of knowledge.


----------



## Don't Bogart (Jan 26, 2009)

One more thing this country was not founded on religious freedom. It was founded by a group wanted to pray their way. They were intolerant to any other type or style of belief.
They actually left a country that believed in religious freedom.
The Puritans (Pilgrims) lived for 12 years in Delfshaven Holland. A country that believed in religious freedom. The Puritans had trouble with the diversity of religious beliefs around them. Felt it was bad for their children to be exposed it.
So the opportunity to practice their way was presented to them and they took it.


----------



## smilingbigfoot (Jan 27, 2009)

I feel like I lost a whole IQ point reading this, 

everyone tries to make people believe what they believe , like the idiot who wrote this he says christians should mined their own business yet he finds time to write this garbage. maybe he should take his own advise.


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## ugzkmk (Jan 27, 2009)

christianity is a myth that had enough popularity in the early times that it won out against other similar myths and was written as blind fact. it could just have easily been anything else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Christ_and_comparative_mythology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithras

Mithras is the best example, almost identical to Jesus Christ's story, but Christianity gained popularity and Mithras declined.


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## 4eftelover (Jan 29, 2009)

for all you believers out there who are so sure that god knows and sees everything.......

please do a quick google image search for depleted uranium.... look at the images of children born with unbelievably horrific defects... some so bad that they dont even resemble humans....
...this is the aftermath of sophisticated weapons...war!

if there is a god, why is he letting this happen....????
do you bible bashers believe that these unfortunate children were born sinners and if they survive, and repent, god will forgive them???
give me a break. do something useful with your life and try and change foreign policy... forget god, because if he exists, then he has forgotten a lot of these poor souls... imagine one of these kids was yours!!!!
its heartbreaking


----------



## Stoney McFried (Jan 29, 2009)

Dude, that's a harlequin baby.It's genetic.It's not caused by chemicals.Please take that down.All you're doing is exploiting the suffering of another to prove a point.


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## 4eftelover (Jan 30, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Dude, that's a harlequin baby.It's genetic.It's not caused by chemicals.Please take that down.All you're doing is exploiting the suffering of another to prove a point.


it was on a website for du, but after checking it, youre right.

look, its kind of besides the point.....

this discussion is about god. im certainly not trying to exploit the childs obvious suffering. i know its a difficult image to look at, but its reality... theres a lot of people who are born into a life where all they will experience untill they die is pain and fear. 
there are reasons that this child was born like this.... scientific reasons.
i just want to know how cases like this fit into god's master plan. what is the message god is trying to say here?

i would like if someone championing the christian faith attempts an answer

the reason i posted up the picture is because people tend to skip issues like this when they explain how great and mighty god is!

genetic research may be able to help prevent this from happening in the future. god cannot

if the moderators feel this image is in bad taste i'll take it down....no problem.
i could write loads describing it, but a picture speaks ..............

its certainly uncomfortable to look at, but that doesnt mean talking about it is exploiting it. 
i think its worse to ignore it. 
maybe instead of donating to a chuch, you should donate to scientific research, or to some sort of charity, or help pay the wages of the people who help children like this.

the christian church ie: the vatican and all the way down to local churches are very wealthy. why dont they sell off their land and raise as much money as possible and donate it to good causes??????

becasuse the money would be a drop in the ocean compared to what is needed people would probably say! well wasnt there a story in the bible about the rich man who donated a portion of his wealth, and the poor old lady who could only give one alm....but thats all she had!!!

why doesnt the church lead by example??
they certainly talk a load of useless rhetoric, but would it not be more practical to concentrate on helping all the people who are experiencing suffering like us lucky ones couldnt imagine???

you dont need all that wealth to be close to god do you?
why cant the church operate like mother theresa or something? ...she had the right idea.

this is my main problem with christianity....its a machine.


----------



## 4eftelover (Jan 30, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Dude, that's a harlequin baby.It's genetic.It's not caused by chemicals.Please take that down.All you're doing is exploiting the suffering of another to prove a point.


 
and by the way, and with all due respect... im not trying to prove a point, because you cannot prove a point to people who have blind faith and will never consider changing their point of view.


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## Stoney McFried (Jan 30, 2009)

Those of us who don't believe in god know that if he existed he's the most abusive and neglectful father there ever was.


roscosera said:


> and by the way, and with all due respect... im not trying to prove a point, because you cannot prove a point to people who have blind faith and will never consider changing their point of view.


----------



## We Love 1 (Feb 2, 2009)

This link has some pretty interesting information!

https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/157305-alien-gods.html#post2020326

It doesn't hurt to keep an open mind (or maybe it does for some people)!

O.M.G. (G.M.O. backwards ) O My God!


----------



## We Love 1 (Feb 2, 2009)

roscosera said:


> theres a lot of people who are born into a life where all they will experience untill they die is pain and fear.
> 
> genetic research may be able to help prevent this from happening in the future. god cannot
> 
> ...


You are asking some very real questions Roscosera and I believe We should be demanding improvements in the needed areas. But when We have a bunch of sold out politicians that care more about catering to the lobyists than the people they allegedly represent, than their corruption can be seen by their impact on society, e.g., wars, soaring gas prices, inflation (because of "stimulus" packages that puts BILLIONS of dollars into the banksters that devised this fiasco), poverty/lack of jobs, outsourcing, impeded renuable energy technologies, the lies and deception of many things, etc. 

So, do You think God is responsible for the atrocities that evil people have commited? 

We cannot change the past but We can learn from it. 


"i just want to know how cases like this fit into god's master plan. what is the message god is trying to say here?"

I don't like it, or understand, why good/innocent people have to suffer. I have My own affliction and I wish I were perfect, but I get My strength knowing that God, My Father, sees all and will repay the afflicted and afflicters accordingly, either in this life/world or the next. And if I'm wrong than Jesus was a liar, but I take His Word as Truth. After all, He walked on water, healed lepers, cast out demons, split the Red Sea, died on the cross, rose from the dead, etc.

the christian church ie: the vatican and all the way down to local churches are very wealthy. why dont they sell off their land and raise as much money as possible and donate it to good causes??????

Don't let Me get started on the Vatican. If You want to talk about corruption, theres a good place to start. Many people have used the name of Christ for their own avaricious agendas. Some people are just sick. They have undoubtedly exploited their role as "Chrstian teachers" to rake in the money, and I believe they should donate to good causes but instead they hoard.

"you dont need all that wealth to be close to god do you?
why cant the church operate like mother theresa or something? ...she had the right idea."

Of course You don't need to be wealthy to be close to God. Jesus said a camel has a better chance of fitting through the eye of a needle than a rich man getting to heaven. I don't believe He has problems with people that are wealthy, but rather those who love money more than God/Him.

"
maybe instead of donating to a chuch, you should donate to scientific research, or to some sort of charity, or help pay the wages of the people who help children like this.

why doesnt the church lead by example??
they certainly talk a load of useless rhetoric, but would it not be more practical to concentrate on helping all the people who are experiencing suffering like us lucky ones couldnt imagine???"

Some churches use the money for missionaries and helping the poor. For example I was watching a show that used the money to dig wells for the children in Africa since they had no clean water and were getting sick from drinking the infected water. So not all churches are the same. Some have good intentions while others (like the Vatican) just want to expand and build so they can collect more money.

I belive a step in the right direction would be to get off of fossil fuels NOW! We will eventually be setting up hydrogen stations in the ocean that use highly efficient solar, wind, geo-thermal and other free renuable energy sources to convert the ocean water into hydrogen (and O2) for powering (seeminly) EVERYTHING! Just start reading this thread from page 60 to the end and you'll realize I've explained quite alot about the past, present and Our future potentials.

My point being is that I believe God created the universe. How else would everything come into existance out of nothing?


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## hom36rown (Feb 2, 2009)

Where ya been jesus?


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## llLOU (Feb 2, 2009)

roscosera said:


> for all you believers out there who are so sure that god knows and sees everything.......
> 
> please do a quick google image search for depleted uranium.... look at the images of children born with unbelievably horrific defects... some so bad that they dont even resemble humans....
> ...this is the aftermath of sophisticated weapons...war!
> ...


You DO UNDERSTAND THE WORD "DEPLETED"DON'T YOU???


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## wackymack (Feb 2, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> This link has some pretty interesting information!
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/spirituality-sexuality-philosophy/157305-alien-gods.html#post2020326
> 
> ...


 
Your a little piss ant that needs to be stomped on


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## cheechman (Feb 3, 2009)

some awesome richard dawkins quotes and here is a joe rogan clip that is hilarious and awesome at the same time..you have to listen the whole way through though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grcqs9cDuN8

We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. 



I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world. 


Complex, statistically improbable things are by their nature more difficult to explain than simple, statistically probable things.


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## hom36rown (Feb 3, 2009)

Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a Cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries.

You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe.

A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism.

-carl sagan


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## TheLastJuror (Feb 3, 2009)

Why does there have to be a religion and a god, or anything?
Why cant we just be here to live and die like all other beings 
and creatures in the past, present, and in the future. All have lived and died
and something or someone has replaced them with no problem. I dont believe in a religion or a god 
because i dont see fit for one to exist and no proof of one to exist. Another question for anyone
who has an answer. What keeps "humanity" having a soul and "animals or creatures" not having one?
What seperates us form them and why dont they have one?


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## We Love 1 (Feb 3, 2009)

hom36rown said:


> Where ya been jesus?


Hey Hom36grown!

I've been around. Where have You been bro? 

Check this out. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtK0RrIHO1o&feature=related

Pretty interesting! It makes Me ponder. Hmmmm? 

Do You think they are there now?


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## Stoney McFried (Feb 3, 2009)

Because humans have this need to feel "special."


TheLastJuror said:


> Why does there have to be a religion and a god, or anything?
> Why cant we just be here to live and die like all other beings
> and creatures in the past, present, and in the future. All have lived and died
> and something or someone has replaced them with no problem. I dont believe in a religion or a god
> ...


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## 4eftelover (Feb 6, 2009)

llLOU said:


> You DO UNDERSTAND THE WORD "DEPLETED"DON'T YOU???


 
yes i do know what it means asshole.
if you think that "depleted" in the context of uranium means that it is no longer dangerous, then i suggest you go read a book about it you fucking plank!

anyway... talking about the effects of depleted uranium on human genetics is a side issue.
im asking why god would allow children to be born with congenital conditions or deformities which will make it impossible for them to ever "sin" or have any kind of quality of life.


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## We Love 1 (Feb 6, 2009)

This is who I wanted to be president of the USA. And guess what? He wants to legalize GANJA! (If only all the stoners knew)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adMYz5C2oFc&feature=rec-HM-r2

I'm a proud supporter of RON PAUL!

My friends DWR showed Me these interesting links about aliens and whatnot!

http://tvshack.net/documentaries/Secret_Space/

http://tvshack.net/documentaries/Sec...ien_Invasion_/

Good stuff! 

Edit- Heres a good one too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziicpZRqm-g&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div

RON PAUL REVOLUTION!


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## trishmybiscuits (Feb 7, 2009)

Don't Bogart said:


> It must be understood that we have not obtained a level of knowledge that defines or dismisses totally the reality of God (I put a capital G just for respect of the topic). I read the article and as always the author of these rants implies he has the knowledge of a god's nonexistence. The author is doing exactly what he criticizing. That narrow mindedness is driving religion. To some respect he's right. If it can't be explained then you fill in the blank with god.


The author never questions the existance of a god. He just questions the credibility of the claims that the Christians make about their god. And there is none.


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## We Love 1 (Feb 12, 2009)

trishmybiscuits said:


> *The author never questions the existance of a god.* He just questions the credibility of the claims that the *Christians *make about *their god*. And there is none.


What God is the "real" God then?

~PEACE~


----------



## wackymack (Feb 12, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> What God is the "real" God then?
> 
> ~PEACE~


 
And what if you(We Love 1) were meant to be passed around the prison shower like talcum powder?


----------



## We Love 1 (Feb 12, 2009)

wackymack said:


> And what if you(We Love 1) were meant to be passed around the prison shower like talcum powder?


Well, I don't think I would like that very much. Unless it were the womens part of the prison, than in that case I wouldn't mind being up their butt much  How about you? 

I've put some of the good vids in this compilation so its easier to find rather than digging through the thread. 

(The Fiat Money System)

http://video.google.com/videosearch?...tem&emb=0&aq=f#

(Money As Debt)

http://video.google.com/videosearch?...s%20debt&emb=0


Who do you believe? (I know most of you have seen this before.)

The MainSream Media(MSM) and gov't. "The kids need the fluoride in the tap water" YouTube - Notebook: Bottled Water 

Or scientists and doctors? 
YouTube - Professional Perspectives: Fluoride in Tap Water
YouTube - Fluoride Poisoning
YouTube - Dangers of Fluoride

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________

YouTube - If You're an American you should see THIS! for real

YouTube - Alex Jones Predicts 911

YouTube - WTC 7 - Pull It By Larry Silverstein

YouTube - Here's something the government didn't want you to see

YouTube - FOX-5 Reports 9/11/01: WTC-7 Collapsed Before Actual Event

YouTube - 911 WTC Basement Explosions video and photographic proof

YouTube - Dick Cheney Exposed! - Excellent TV Doc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chXjC...eature=related

Richard Gage, AIA, Architect - "How The Towers Fell" - Complete 2 Hour Presentation | 911blogger.com

(Zeitgeist)
Zeitgeist - The Movie

(America; Freedom to Fascism)
America: Freedom to Fascism - Director's Authorized Version

(Ring of Power)
Ring of Power - Parts 1-5 - Sprword.com
Ring of Power - Parts 6-10 - Sprword.com


(The Money Masters) 
The Money Masters - Part 1 of 2
The Money Masters - Part 2 of 2

(Esoteric Agenda)
Esoteric Agenda - Sprword.com

(End Game)
ENDGAME- ALEX JONES - Blueprint for Global Enslavement

(The Great Global Warming Swindle)
The Great Global Warming Swindle - Channel: UKUFO on LiveVideo.com

After you educate yourself with these links you can clearly see that the media and gov't are sleeping together. You should also be aware that the media is trying to make us hate Iran (just like Iraq) by telling us all the lies in the corrupt propaganda. The MSM (MainStream Media) is owned by Zionist Jews and hence the wars in the middle east because of difference in religion and corrupt politics. 

YouTube - Plans Against Dissidents "*A widespread awakening is taking place. Especially,the truth about 911, and the reasons for the Iraq war are unfolding..... Operation- Garden Plot"*


Now We have a better idea of who We are, and what Our intentions have been! We want to live in a better world, but it takes people(You and Your friends) educating theirselves and others, than the sky is the limit! 

(The Rothschild family has been impeding Our progression for a while. The Rothschild family has been the culprit for most recent wars, trying to install central banks so they can enslave We, the people. If I'm not wrong, the last two countries whom were *forced* central banks were IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN! The Rothschild family and its central banks have made all the mess for Us because they don't have to deal with all the debt they put Our country in, AND they get to buy up cheap (forclosed) properties and buisness just like they did in the great depression for pennies on the dollar. There are *only 5 countries* *without *central banks, two of them are Iran and N. Korea, go figure! The Rothschild family (and its cronies) has made Us slaves to the system! Money should be brought into circulation by public works, i.e., schools, hospitals, and any other misc public services.) 

YouTube - Bob Marley on Herb and Prohibition

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HMlb...eature=related


YouTube - RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story (Part 1 of 7)

YouTube - RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story (Part 2 of 7)

YouTube - RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story (Part 3 of 7)

YouTube - RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story (Part 4 of 7)

YouTube - RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story (Part 5 of 7)

YouTube - RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story (Part 6 of 7)

YouTube - RUN FROM THE CURE - The Rick Simpson Story (Part 7 of 7)




YouTube - Grow more pot! Part 1

YouTube - Grow more pot! Part 2


This is what We should be building to bring jobs to the USA/world


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I35RApAByXM 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ledtw...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6izn...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDZ41JDQrRo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHjxO...eature=related

(Mars/Earth connection)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axRec...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jlEyogUkHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v3I1...eature=related

About the aliens!

Alien Gods?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtK0R...eature=related (Alien structures on Mars)

http://tvshack.net/documentaries/Secret_Space/

http://tvshack.net/documentaries/Sec...ien_Invasion_/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sofwH...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oMz8...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziicp...c-HM-fresh+div

Some cool vids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLqJG...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnvM_...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG9FO...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o0jg...eature=related

About Codex A.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmrF9KjlGsc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOMqwPxUx54

*Chemtrails*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9qC6...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCGr7...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaPqC...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wye2Y...eature=related

Turning trash into fuel!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWf9nYbm3ac

RON PAUL wants to legalize Ganja. He should have been president!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adMYz...ture=rec-HM-r2

Jesus Messiah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CseiS...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2e4nIIMN1I (I'm '*a Manuel'*)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU_rT...eature=related 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kwsvq...eature=related








Will You walk with Me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rqhG2yT-58 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6V4r...eature=related

You say You want a REVOLUTION! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bf0P0AKCFo


----------



## cigol (Feb 13, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> What God is the "real" God then?
> 
> ~PEACE~


energy is god. we are all energy. energy is us and everything around us. we are just not at a spiritual level to see it yet. we must achieve a higher state of consciousness, where we find we are all connected though energy. god is nothing we can see or comprehend. and believing in a book that isn't proved to be 100% true, well that what faith is. i would never speak down of someones beliefs, but if you look at it from a logical perspective you will find religion is a man made thing to give hope, which some need. ohhh and i talked directly to him the other day and God said it had bigger things to worry about then us.


----------



## We Love 1 (Feb 13, 2009)

cigol said:


> ohhh and i talked directly to him the other day and God said it had bigger things to worry about then us.


I was going to concur with You up until the last part. 

What exactly did God say? He just said "I have bigger things to worry about"?

In what form did He manifest Himself into in order to propagate this message?


----------



## NewGrowth (Feb 13, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Because humans have this need to feel "special."


You mean I'm not special?


----------



## Stoney McFried (Feb 14, 2009)

You're special, all right!


NewGrowth said:


> You mean I'm not special?


----------



## undertheice (Feb 14, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> In what form did He manifest Himself into in order to propagate this message?


well, the last time i talked to him he appeared as a glowing white buick skylark. he used to come to me as an eighteen inch cockroach, but then i moved and he started showing up at my door as an amway salesman. he is a persistent little bugger. from time to time he has taken the form of a girl scout cookie, a bottle of aspirin, a 45 watt compact fluorescent light bulb and a jar of rancid mayonaise.


----------



## cigol (Feb 14, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> I was going to concur with You up until the last part.
> 
> What exactly did God say? He just said "I have bigger things to worry about"?
> 
> In what form did He manifest Himself into in order to propagate this message?


Haha, I dont know I mean you know He is ALWAYS talking to me, Cause I ask him for new cars , money, some new kicks, but he never comes through. So i Was like Foool Im sick of it, then he came back all hostile and told me he had "Bigger" things to worry about then us.

hahah


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## We Love 1 (Feb 14, 2009)

I have God cell phone number if anyone is interested! Just shoot Me a PM.

He doesn't like to get text messages that much because He said its running up His bill to much.

Its best to call Him after 7 o'clock because He has free nights and weekends.

If You call before 7 than have Your credit card ready, its 4.20 per minute.


----------



## NewGrowth (Feb 14, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> I have God cell phone number if anyone is interested! Just shoot Me a PM.
> 
> He doesn't like to get text messages that much because He said its running up His bill to much.
> 
> ...


He sounds like an asshole


----------



## We Love 1 (Feb 14, 2009)

Its called a joke- 

something that is amusing or ridiculous,
esp. because of being ludicrously inadequate or a sham;
a thing, situation, or person laughed at rather than taken seriously; farce


----------



## NewGrowth (Feb 14, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> Its called a joke-
> 
> something that is amusing or ridiculous,
> esp. because of being ludicrously inadequate or a sham;
> a thing, situation, or person laughed at rather than taken seriously; farce


Yeah well God is dead anyway


----------



## We Love 1 (Feb 14, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> *You* sounds like an asshole


 

God bless you!


----------



## wackymack (Feb 14, 2009)

cigol said:


> Haha, I dont know I mean you know He is ALWAYS talking to me, Cause I ask him for new cars , money, some new kicks, but he never comes through. So i Was like Foool Im sick of it, then he came back all hostile and told me he had "Bigger" things to worry about then us.
> 
> hahah


 

Yeah he has to worry about me entering the kingdom and kicking him straight in the balls with diamond encrusted steeltoe boots.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 14, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> God bless you!


I did not sneeze, "God is Dead" is a famous quote. You perception of God is in fact dead . . . .

The statement "God is dead," occurring in several of Nietzsche's works (notably in The Gay Science), has become one of his best-known remarks. On the basis of this remark, most commentators[40] regard Nietzsche as an atheist; others (such as Kaufmann) suggest that this statement reflects a more subtle understanding of divinity. In Nietzsche's view, recent developments in modern science and the increasing secularization of European society had effectively 'killed' the Christian God, who had served as the basis for meaning and value in the West for more than a thousand years.
Nietzsche claimed the 'death' of God would eventually lead to the loss of any universal perspective on things, and along with it any coherent sense of objective truth.[41] Instead we would retain only our own multiple, diverse, and fluid perspectives. This view has acquired the name "perspectivism".
Alternatively, the death of God may lead beyond bare perspectivism to outright nihilism, the belief that nothing has any importance and that life lacks purpose. As Heidegger put the problem, "If God as the suprasensory ground and goal of all reality is dead, if the suprasensory world of the Ideas has suffered the loss of its obligatory and above it its vitalizing and upbuilding power, then nothing more remains to which man can cling and by which he can orient himself."[42] Developing this idea, Nietzsche wrote Thus Spoke Zarathustra, therein introducing the concept of a value-creating Übermensch. According to Lampert, "the death of God must be followed by a long twilight of piety and nihilism (II. 19; III. . [] Zarathustra's gift of the superman is given to a mankind not aware of the problem to which the superman is the solution."

Your morality is destructive and devoid of rational thought. Doubt has driven man kinds greatest achievements. Faith has only brought about intolerance and violence.


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## We Love 1 (Feb 18, 2009)

Heres some more vids

(The Corporation)

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=corporation&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wv#

(Empire of the city)

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Empire+of+the+City&emb=0&aq=-1&oq=#


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## b0bdyl4n420 (Feb 20, 2009)

NewGrowth said:


> Doubt has driven man kinds greatest achievements. Faith has only brought about intolerance and violence.


couldnt agree more


----------



## poplars (Feb 20, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> Heres some more vids
> 
> (The Corporation)
> 
> ...


so your life is talking about jesus and watching videos.

you're awesome.


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## We Love 1 (Feb 20, 2009)

poplars said:


> so your life is talking about jesus and watching videos.
> 
> you're awesome.


Thanks bro.

Whats Your life about?

~PEACE~


----------



## trishmybiscuits (Mar 10, 2009)

We Love 1 said:


> What God is the "real" God then?
> 
> ~PEACE~


Until proven otherwise, there is no real god! I would think that that would be obvious.


----------



## We Love 1 (Mar 14, 2009)

Originally Posted by *GordonFreeman*  
_well now i just really want to hear your story, please do share jesus man_

I "came out" on 9-16-08. I was smoking lots of "virgin Mary J" and I started "putting the pieces together" about a month prior to this date. 


Christianity has been debunked once and for all

"My name is George Manuel Oliveira.

My name *means - *Farmer / with us is God / olive tree. (There are different varients though, Manuel also means "God with Us" so George Manuel also means "Farmer God with Us".

My DOB- 8-14-1985 I'm a Leo and 85 is the year of the bull. 


I just realized these things about a month ago (*this was 9-16-08 ) .* I have an amazing story to tell.. Believe this!

What are my initials?........ GMO...... Whats GMO backwards?

What does that stand for? O.M.G., O My God."

(Flash flood turning water RED as blood)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii0euH1yWX8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=605_5Q5YMY0&feature=related

This happened during a time of fasting.



http://www.endofage.com/

"The majority opinion currently is that there will be another period of 42 months (of 30 days) before the beginning of the reign of the beast to make a total tribulation period of 7 years (of 360 days). Counting back another 1260 days from 4/11/2012 for a total of 7 360-day years *brings us to 10/29/2008. One should then expect the Rapture to be on or before this date. However, the majority may be off 30 days in that the tribulation starts on 9/29/2008 with the rapture on 10/29/2008* to fulfill II Thessalonians 2:3 which speaks of the day of the Lord, taken as being the Rapture happening after the man of lawlessness being revealed."

*As I said, "I "came out" on 9-16-08." Notice how close the date is.*


Revelation 14:13-15 

"*14**And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. *"

True story. I actually saw God in the clouds. His head was lit up by the Sun. There was a line across His chest, that I believe to be the sickle. It was so vivid, I could see His wavy hair and it was perfect timing. I just so happened to park at a place I used to scuba dive for shellfish and looked up and there He was. It was picture perfect. 

If You read the "*Parable of the Sower*" from the Bible, You'll realize that both Mattew and Mark tell the tale but the numbers are ordered as seen below. 

Matthew has a descending sequence (100-*6*0-*3*0) *63*. Mark presents the yield of grain in ascending order (*3*0-*6*0-100) *36*; 

The first time I ever grew Herb was at *63* Pine st. when I was in jr high school but My dad pulled the plants out of the garden. The second time I grew was at *36* Aroostook and I got a yield because it was indoors at My house. Both houses were at the top of a hill. 


"4Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest."

And I figured out the world. Check this out - Viva la REVOLUTION!

Another funny thing is that My X fiance, her initials were going to be the same as mine if We got married. Almost as if she were My Eve. About the same time she broke up with Me I found out that I'm the Savior of the world. Ever noticed how its says "*IN RI*" on top of the cross? My heart was broken *IN RI* (in Rhode Island), where I was crucified with Christ.

Can I get a witness?

*The REVOLUTION has begun!*

*RON PAUL REVOLUTION*

~PEACE~


----------



## x15 (Mar 17, 2009)

trishmybiscuits said:


> This one has been blistering-up the Internet. Christianity has been debunked once and for all:
> 
> The final debunking of Christianity



hmm, not to get into a rant but a few things should be cleared up from that link. 

that guy should have done his homework prior to posting that on the internet, he makes a few misleading assumptions, for example: "...Everything that we know about Jesus Christ is based strictly and entirely on hearsay..."


the fact is it is firsthand eye witness testimony, the same kind we use in our judicial system which convicts or acquits people. people are in jail because of eye witness testimony. the writers of the bible said they were "eye witnesses to these things...they held in their hands, they saw with their eyes...and wrote about it"

quote from link, "...The first issue that I have with Christianity is if Jesus Christ was the son of God then why didn't he tell the people during his time that the Earth was round..."



don't know where he's getting these misconceptions but he assumes Jesus didn't teach these things. the bible recounts the origin of the cosmos, saying the earth was surrounded by a dome meaning curved rounded Genesis 1:6-8, 14-17 "let there be a dome...God made the dome...the second day" God also said the universe is a dome.
reference: New Revised Standard Version

couldn't finish reading the rest of the link.


----------



## JoeBananas (Mar 17, 2009)

x15 said:


> hmm, not to get into a rant but a few things should be cleared up from that link.
> 
> that guy should have done his homework prior to posting that on the internet, he makes a few misleading assumptions, for example: "...Everything that we know about Jesus Christ is based strictly and entirely on hearsay..."
> 
> ...


You cannot quote the bible as a factual reference.

So whatever you just said is bullshit. or anything you back-up with biblical passages is as good as quoting the movie the matrix. And its NEO not Jesus ya idiot.


----------



## x15 (Mar 17, 2009)

JoeBananas said:


> You cannot quote the bible as a factual reference.



I just did. 

it is primary source material. it would hold up in court. I would win, you would lose. 




JoeBananas said:


> So whatever you just said is bullshit. or anything you back-up with biblical passages is as good as quoting the movie the matrix. And its NEO not Jesus ya idiot.



ah, insults, eh?

stick to the subject, refute what I wrote or shut up


----------



## trishmybiscuits (Mar 20, 2009)

x15 said:


> hmm, not to get into a rant but a few things should be cleared up from that link.
> 
> that guy should have done his homework prior to posting that on the internet, he makes a few misleading assumptions, for example: "...Everything that we know about Jesus Christ is based strictly and entirely on hearsay..."
> 
> ...


Anyone who knows anything about the justice system knows that eyewitness testimony can be extremely unreliable. Furthermore, hearsay is when people say that someone else said this or that. And that's exactly what the bible is. It's just people saying that Jesus said this or that. That's hearsay.

The point that the author is making about Jesus not exhibiting any knowledge about the natural world is that any ordinary human being could've went around espousing the same rhetoric that Jesus did and calling himself the son of God. Heck, we have people doing as much today. The point is if Jesus really was the son of God he would've did something to drive the point home not only to people of his time but to all those who came after him. One good way to have done that would've been to point out something about the natural world that people weren't currently aware of, something that someone who was really the son of God would've been expected to know. And Jesus clearly did not do that!


----------



## JoeBananas (Mar 20, 2009)

x15 said:


> I just did.
> 
> it is primary source material. it would hold up in court. I would win, you would lose.
> 
> ...


Its not an insult if its the truth. 
Mr Sheeple willingly submitting to slavery. Not only that you are a great slave because you will fight for your master! They programed you very well but I am sure it didnt take much to get you to follow their lead now did it?

And my answer to your bible being a valid reference.
you are lying because it would not hold up in court.

I win

and you.....well you lose like always. You will never win quoteing the bible for fact. 

Ya Bone-head.


----------



## hom36rown (Mar 20, 2009)

x15 said:


> I just did.
> 
> it is primary source material. it would hold up in court. I would win, you would lose.
> 
> ...


hearsay is not allowed in court


----------



## x15 (Mar 20, 2009)

trishmybiscuits said:


> ...The point is if Jesus really was the son of God he would've did something to drive the point home not only to people of his time but to all those who came after him. One good way to have done that would've been to point out something about the natural world that people weren't currently aware of, something that someone who was really the son of God would've been expected to know. And Jesus clearly did not do that!


hi, trishmybiscuit 

if you are looking for a natural example it was that Jesus defeated death

after he was killed and 3 days after his death, he was seen by over 500 eye witnesses (some of them wrote books that are contained in the bible) at one time, many said they saw him walking around in his body the one with the scars from the nails & sword wounds and many who said they shared a meal with him.

the benefit of doubt is always given to the writers of ancient documents regardless of it's plato, socrates, abraham lincoln or the many authors of the books of the bible unless there is evidence to the contrary

it is evident by the posted link "The final debunking of Christianity" the author (DARILAC SEMARGO-BLOBI) has not read the bible otherwise he would not have written what he did


----------



## x15 (Mar 20, 2009)

JoeBananas said:


> Its not an insult if its the truth.
> Mr Sheeple willingly submitting to slavery. Not only that you are a great slave because you will fight for your master! They programed you very well but I am sure it didnt take much to get you to follow their lead now did it?



nope, I'm not programmed. I used to be an atheist but the evidence is overwhelming to the fact that Jesus did live, died and rose from the dead. i spent 2 an a half years studying this before I was convinced 



JoeBananas said:


> And my answer to your bible being a valid reference. you are lying because it would not hold up in court.
> 
> I win
> 
> and you.....well you lose like always. You will never win quoteing the bible for fact.



the bible is used as a reference because it is accurate and reliable. it is used by the National Geographic Society, Smithsonian Institute and universities from all over the world for archeological digs and investigations

nevertheless, you can believe what you want, that's on your head not mine. i'm trying to be objective here 

I'm willing to listen to you if you can site any historical, archeological, or political record (from that time period) that contradicts the biblical accounts 





JoeBananas said:


> Ya Bone-head.


i'll take the high road on this one and not resort to name calling.

bless you


----------



## hom36rown (Mar 20, 2009)

x15 said:


> nope, I'm not programmed. I used to be an atheist but the evidence is overwhelming to the fact that Jesus did live, died and rose from the dead. i spent 2 an a half years studying this before I was convinced


what evidence exactly do you have that jesus died and rose from the dead?


----------



## Stoney McFried (Mar 20, 2009)

The evidence is only overwhelming to those who want so badly for it to be true.


x15 said:


> nope, I'm not programmed. I used to be an atheist but the evidence is overwhelming to the fact that Jesus did lived, died and rose from the dead. i spent 2 an a half years studying this before I was convinced






Lots of fictional books use actual locations in their stories.The Bible is no different.The fact that the Romans never mentioned Jesus at all, even though Pontius Pilate was a member of the Roman Empire, (and they were known for meticulous record keeping)is just ONE of the many things that prove historically there was no Christ.Now, before you even bring up any historians who supposedly cite that Jesus existed, please keep in mind that these guys were NOT alive at the supposed time of Christ's life, and many of these accounts were actually ADDED by the church,and are not even written by said people. So, please show historical(not biblical) references to jesus that cannot be refuted.


x15 said:


> the bible is used as a reference because it is accurate and reliable. it is used by the National Geographic Society, Smithsonian Institute and universities from all over the world for archeological digs and investigations
> 
> nevertheless, you can believe what you want, that's on your head not mine. i'm trying to be objective here
> 
> I'm willing to listen to you if you can site any historical, archeological, or political record (from that time period) that contradicts the biblical accounts


----------



## x15 (Mar 20, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> So, please show historical(not biblical) references to jesus that cannot be refuted.



the books of the bible are a historical record. so, am i to believe you do not agree with the smithsonian institute? national geographic society? because they sure do think it is accurate

are the writings of plato accurate? socrates?

 <---- smiley denotes being friendly and having a polite conversation, getting to know people here


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## hom36rown (Mar 20, 2009)

Even if he did exist, he was nothing more than some guy with a messiah complex. Do you believe every part of the bible, do you think noah really gathered up two of every animal, and the world was flooded, do you believe moses parted the red sea, do you believe in giants? Its pretty obvious the bible is just a bunch of stories.


----------



## Stoney McFried (Mar 20, 2009)

Like I said, many fictional books use actual locations. And what do Plato and Socrates have to do with Christ?They were born way before he supposedly was, so if you're trying to say they mentioned Jesus, I believe you're quite mistaken.


x15 said:


> the books of the bible are a historical record. so, am i to believe you do not agree with the smithsonian institute? national geographic society? because they sure do think it is accurate
> 
> are the writings of plato accurate? socrates?
> 
> <---- smiley denotes being friendly and having a polite conversation, getting to know people here


----------



## x15 (Mar 20, 2009)

hom36rown said:


> what evidence exactly do you have that jesus died and rose from the dead?



1. - the eye witness accounts, historical documentation from the different institutions (which I've named already) and archeological digs, plus i studied law and i have peace officer status (don't be alarmed, i'm not a policeman but a fireman, we go through some of the same training as police, hey - you asked  ) so became familiar with evidence

2. - experientially, because the records seemed to be correct I still did not believe them for a long time. it wasn't until through the use of peyote and lots of lsd the spirit realm was revealed to me all too convincingly, over & over again. it was in this realm i met christ (the same guy who died and resurrected spoken of in the bible)

put the two together and he (christ) has been indelibly etched into my life experiences - i'm not the only one who has experienced this, read a few posts up

i might add, richard "rick" griffin used to airbrush surfboards in our town many moons ago and he had a conversion experience that left a lot of us thinking he had gone off the deep end until it started happening to us

btw, for the record, i'm not hearing anything new here, i thought the same way 

if you're familiar with higher criticism they use some of the same arguments as some here, saying the biblical books were incorrect, it was taught in colleges, until higher criticism was disproved through archeology and stylistic studies (study of writing styles)


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## x15 (Mar 20, 2009)

hey?! i'm now "learning how to roll!" yippie!


...with the punches


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## Stoney McFried (Mar 20, 2009)

I'm sorry, but the eye witness accounts you're referring to aren't even from the same time period.Please show us links from National Geographic and the Smithsonian that say Jesus Existed, and was the son of "God".
When we take hallucinogens, the things we experience are flavored by our own perceptions and experiences.I daresay if you had never heard of Christ, you wouldn't have seen him in your visions. Your hallucinations were influenced by the culture you live in. What is true for you is not true for others.You have your own path, and you believe there's a Christ in it. Fine. But my path does not include this particular faith, and I wish for that to be recognized and respected as well.I think that's what most of the athiests and agnostics are saying.Faith is individual,not collective. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.


x15 said:


> 1. - the eye witness accounts, historical documentation from the different institutions (which I've named already) and archeological digs, plus i studied law and i have peace officer status (don't be alarmed, i'm not a policeman but a fireman, we go through some of the same training as police, hey - you asked  ) so became familiar with evidence
> 
> 2. - experientially, because the records seemed to be correct I still did not believe them for a long time. it wasn't until through the use of peyote and lots of lsd the spirit realm was revealed to me all too convincingly, over & over again. it was in this realm i met christ (the same guy who died and resurrected spoken of in the bible)
> 
> ...


----------



## x15 (Mar 20, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Like I said, many fictional books use actual locations. And what do Plato and Socrates have to do with Christ?They were born way before he supposedly was, so if you're trying to say they mentioned Jesus, I believe you're quite mistaken.


hi, 

true.

the reason i mention plato & socrates is because the same critical thinking applied to the study of their ancient writings is the same study applied to the biblical books, that's all, nothing special 

back to the bible books, the way i see this is that people from different walks of life, separated by time and location wrote down that they had an encounter with someone/a being who said it/he was God the creator. these people wrote down what this God/being said to them. prophecies, lineages, extra natural phenomenon. the thread through all of them is that they all wrote about a coming messiah "the christ" who would give us a special spirit guide (The Comforter/Holy Spirit) to lead us in the heavenly & earthly realms, i dunno, i like this  love is better than hate


----------



## x15 (Mar 20, 2009)

hom36rown said:


> Even if he did exist, he was nothing more than some guy with a messiah complex. Do you believe every part of the bible, do you think noah really gathered up two of every animal, and the world was flooded, do you believe moses parted the red sea, do you believe in giants? Its pretty obvious the bible is just a bunch of stories.


yup, i do believe this but do not understand a lot of it nor agree with it - there is a difference


----------



## hom36rown (Mar 20, 2009)

x15 said:


> yup, i do believe this but do not understand a lot of it nor agree with it - there is a difference


then theres obviously no reasoning with you, so I'll just give up. I mean the bible says it happened... how can I argue with that.


----------



## Stoney McFried (Mar 20, 2009)

Sorry.I don't believe that someone who is supposed to be our"Father" would really allow the things to happen on this earth that he does if he "loved" us.Even in the Bible are stories of his vengeance. This is me speaking as a mother, knowing that I would never punish my children for an eternity just for defying me. So, like my sig quote says, even if you were to prove to me there is a god like mentioned in the bible, I still wouldn't worship him.


x15 said:


> hi,
> 
> true.
> 
> ...


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## x15 (Mar 20, 2009)

hi, 



Stoney McFried said:


> I'm sorry, but the eye witness accounts you're referring to aren't even from the same time period.


the institutes or the bible?

in regards to the biblical books, the book of John (gospel), Matthew the tax collector's book, Mark's book, the books of Peter and the writings of Paul where the same time period. these guys claim they were eyewitnesses.

one of several quotes: "For we did not follow cunningly devised fables, when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty." the book of 2nd Peter 1:16




Stoney McFried said:


> Please show us links from National Geographic and the Smithsonian that say Jesus Existed, and was the son of "God".



to clarify I said these institutions rely on the bible as accurate and even use the books in it as reference material for their digs. so, if they trust it...

here's a letterhead from the smithsonian institute, quote: 

"...much of the Bible, in particular the historical books of the old testament, are as accurate historical documents as any that we have from antiquity and are in fact more accurate than many of the Egyptian, Mesopotamian, or Greek histories..."

although, they (smithsonian institute) do not believe it is inerrant (without error), and they also have a problem with the first 12 chapters in genesis

reference - http://csnradio.com/tema/misc/SmithsonianLetter.pdf

national geographic "National Geographic Essential Visual History of the Bible"
http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/product/crossell/4245.html

if you do a search online you'll find thousands of references from many reputable institutions using the reliability of the bible




Stoney McFried said:


> When we take hallucinogens, the things we experience are flavored by our own perceptions and experiences.I daresay if you had never heard of Christ, you wouldn't have seen him in your visions.


huge assumption on your part.




Stoney McFried said:


> Your hallucinations were influenced by the culture you live in. What is true for you is not true for others.



I agree it can but also not always, too many factors involved

rational decisions about your observations are made all day long. no one needs anything "special" to investigate the bible records, they should at least look into it prior to lobbing stones (not saying u r  )

belief in the bible once one examines it (putting aside our preconceived ideas about it which some of the atheists/agnostics have made here) objectively we come to a conclusion based on objective studies (feelings aside)




Stoney McFried said:


> You have your own path, and you believe there's a Christ in it. Fine. But my path does not include this particular faith, and I wish for that to be recognized and respected as well.


agreed, no problem with this. 

i don't think we even know your path, you haven't stated one. i will respect it though 




Stoney McFried said:


> I think that's what most of the athiests and agnostics are saying.Faith is individual,not collective. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.


no problem with this either 

i will call someone on something regardless what it is - to clarify the subject at hand - which is nothing different than what you guys do in here all the time on riu when it comes to growing


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## koalabear (Mar 20, 2009)

You have a witness.


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## JoeBananas (Mar 21, 2009)

x15 said:


> nope, I'm not programmed. I used to be an atheist but the evidence is overwhelming to the fact that Jesus did live, died and rose from the dead. i spent 2 an a half years studying this before I was convinced
> 
> the bible is used as a reference because it is accurate and reliable. it is used by the National Geographic Society, Smithsonian Institute and universities from all over the world for archeological digs and investigations
> 
> ...


Must have done a bad job in your studies. The bible ripped off most if not all of its stories. So its not a reputable source.

This is why I say you are programed. You have not logic in your argument. Just blind faith that fuels your ignorant fire.


How about you first prove to me the existence of jesus Christ. You can only use factual references. 

BTW the bible is not a factual reference.


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## wackymack (Mar 21, 2009)

JoeBananas said:


> BTW the bible is not a factual reference.


 
nope,its a story,just like harry potter


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## JoeBananas (Mar 21, 2009)

wackymack said:


> nope,its a story,just like harry potter


Exactly. You sir are smarter than a christian cult follower.


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## wackymack (Mar 21, 2009)

JoeBananas said:


> Exactly. You sir are smarter than a christian cult follower.


 
y thank you,thats cus im a christian cult leader

the mass suicide is goin to soon take place,there will be dead bodies everywhere. the stench is goin to smell soo so good


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## Stoney McFried (Mar 22, 2009)

I'm sorry...the gospels you quoted are all part of the bible.Therefore, not real.
From the Smithsonian letter, here is an excerpt which sums up how they feel about the bible and its historical accuracy.
"The Biblical writers did not pretend they were giving a complete history; instead they constantly refer us to other sources for full historical details, sources such as "The Annals of the Kings of Judah" (or Israel). It is therefore not possible to try to "prove" the Bible by means of checking its historical or scientific accuracy. The only "proof" to which it can be subjected is this: Does it correctly portray the God-human relationship? In the best analysis, the Bible is a religious book, not an historical document."
And the national geographic link is a book they're selling on the visual history of the bible.Says nothing about them believing it to be historically accurate.
As for my assumption regarding your hallucinogenic experience, it wasn't.You said Christ was revealed to you through tripping, in a nutshell.



x15 said:


> hi,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## x15 (Mar 22, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> I'm sorry...the gospels you quoted are all part of the bible. Therefore, not real.



<shrug>you assume too much</shrug>

smithsonian, national geographic are a good source for references, they like me enjoy studying the bible looks like good company to me.




Stoney McFried said:


> And the national geographic link is a book they're selling on the visual history of the bible.Says nothing about them believing it to be historically accurate.


spend a little time on the national geographic site and you'll see quickly what the think of the validity of the bible.



Stoney McFried said:


> As for my assumption regarding your hallucinogenic experience, it wasn't.You said Christ was revealed to you through tripping, in a nutshell.


sigh. 

i never said i was hallucinating. please don't misrepresent what i've said. 

i said i was in the spirit realm.


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## Stoney McFried (Mar 22, 2009)

03-20-2009, 05:22 PM 
 x15





Learning How To Roll
*Learning How To Roll*
Join Date: Mar 2009​ Posts: 30​ *Gallery: *​ *




*​ 
























 






permalink
Quote:
Originally Posted by *hom36rown*  
_what evidence exactly do you have that jesus died and rose from the dead?_


1. - the eye witness accounts, historical documentation from the different institutions (which I've named already) and archeological digs, plus i studied law and i have peace officer status (don't be alarmed, i'm not a policeman but a fireman, we go through some of the same training as police, hey - you asked  ) so became familiar with evidence

2. - experientially, because the records seemed to be correct I still did not believe them for a long time. it wasn't until through the use of peyote and lots of lsd the spirit realm was revealed to me all too convincingly, over & over again. it was in this realm i met christ (the same guy who died and resurrected spoken of in the bible)

put the two together and he (christ) has been indelibly etched into my life experiences - i'm not the only one who has experienced this, read a few posts up

i might add, richard "rick" griffin used to airbrush surfboards in our town many moons ago and he had a conversion experience that left a lot of us thinking he had gone off the deep end until it started happening to us

btw, for the record, i'm not hearing anything new here, i thought the same way 

if you're familiar with higher criticism they use some of the same arguments as some here, saying the biblical books were incorrect, it was taught in colleges, until higher criticism was disproved through archeology and stylistic studies (study of writing styles)
I don't assume anything.I'm pointing out the facts.Here is your post in which you say the spirit realm was revealed to you through lsd and peyote. Therefore, you were hallucinating, cuz that's what those drugs make you do.I don't have to twist anyone's words to make a point. You can believe what you want.But no references you've posted are based in fact.The bible is not fact, it's religious fiction, and one of your links even said so.Sorry to seem like I'm being mean,but it is what it is.


x15 said:


> <shrug>you assume too much</shrug>
> 
> smithsonian, national geographic are a good source for references, they like me enjoy studying the bible looks like good company to me.
> 
> ...


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## x15 (Mar 22, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> ...Sorry to seem like I'm being mean,but it is what it is.



sigh & shrug

you post way too fast which tells me a lot about you

read carefully through my posts and you'll see I said that this spirit realm is also triggered by sunsets, love, travel, prayer, coffee, cannabis...

it is true peyote & lsd can make one hallucinate but they also open doors of the conscience mind & reveal spiritual things

if you are familiar with john mack's work (harvard university) he says there are many ways to get to a spiritual realm, andrew weil says this also and uses the example of meditation


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## Stoney McFried (Mar 23, 2009)

Now who's assuming? I post fast because I'm smart, and I can read a lot very quickly.
Notice how, when different folks enter the spiritual realm,they see different things?That's because it's all interpreted by YOU,the individual. YOU are your own god. But you'll never believe me,and you'll continue to say your way is THE way.And you'll continue to say that the bible verifies this...but lets think of it this way:

L. Ron Hubbard wrote Dianetics. He believes there are aliens living in you and you must get them out using some sort of meter,and some ritual bullshit until you become the alien that you are, or thetan,blah, blah, all logical people laugh,the nuts make it a religion.
The Bible was written by one or more unknown authors, most certainly men of their times.The Bible states than an invisible space man in the sky created the earth and everything on it in six thousand years,sacrificed a son because we were so sinful he was gonna kill us, but instead decided it was quicker to kill Jr.,then bring him back, (and take him to heaven without any evidence of him actually being real),and we all get to burn forever if we don't agree.But he loves us. All the logical people laugh, and the nuts make it a religion.


x15 said:


> sigh & shrug
> 
> you post way too fast which tells me a lot about you
> 
> ...


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## wackymack (Mar 23, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Now who's assuming? I post fast because I'm smart, and I can read a lot very quickly.
> Notice how, when different folks enter the spiritual realm,they see different things?That's because it's all interpreted by YOU,the individual. YOU are your own god. But you'll never believe me,and you'll continue to say your way is THE way.And you'll continue to say that the bible verifies this...but lets think of it this way:
> 
> L. Ron Hubbard wrote Dianetics. He believes there are aliens living in you and you must get them out using some sort of meter,and some ritual bullshit until you become the alien that you are, or thetan,blah, blah, all logical people laugh,the nuts make it a religion.
> The Bible was written by one or more unknown authors, most certainly men of their times.The Bible states than an invisible space man in the sky created the earth and everything on it in six thousand years,sacrificed a son because we were so sinful he was gonna kill us, but instead decided it was quicker to kill Jr.,then bring him back, (and take him to heaven without any evidence of him actually being real),and we all get to burn forever if we don't agree.But he loves us. All the logical people laugh, and the nuts make it a religion.


 
miss stoney,dont you look at the tags? appearantly you wasting away by talkin the same nonscense over and over to the same person. take a look at the tags girl and then go make yourself some tea


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## Stoney McFried (Mar 23, 2009)

Ah.I see now.Once again, satan, you give me knowledge.Why does he get mutiple accounts?


wackymack said:


> miss stoney,dont you look at the tags? appearantly you wasting away by talkin the same nonscense over and over to the same person. take a look at the tags girl and then go make yourself some tea


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## wackymack (Mar 23, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Ah.I see now.Once again, satan, you give me knowledge.Why does he get mutiple accounts?


 
everyone hears voices in their heads,some people need the feeling of wholeness and completion. some need to fulfill the problems that they create. they need to complete the problem by presenting it to the table, and on that table, you have a feast of bullshit and lies. the voices are feeding you the shit that you read. if you dont eat then the feast will go to "waste" and decay,soon that garbage will be forgotten about and never seen again. what do the voices inside your head say?


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## Drgreenz (Mar 23, 2009)

AverageJoe21 said:


> Thank God!


you mean islamic terrorism..... ive never had to shoot a christian or jew in iraq thats for sure.


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## JoeBananas (Mar 23, 2009)

Drgreenz said:


> you mean islamic terrorism..... ive never had to shoot a christian or jew in iraq thats for sure.


Such ignorance is disgusting.

You are confused about the terrorism label. You do not realize that islamic people had nothing to do with any terrorist attack, it was actually our own government leaders that are the terrorists. ( most of the world knows this by now) There is so much information about this I am amazed you have not realized this by now.

And you may have never shot any jews or christians but if you shot anyone while serving in this 'war' then you murdered innocent people. 

You are the terrorist. You pathetic storm trooper.


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## Stoney McFried (Mar 23, 2009)

The voices in my head never talk about god, that's for sure.


wackymack said:


> everyone hears voices in their heads,some people need the feeling of wholeness and completion. some need to fulfill the problems that they create. they need to complete the problem by presenting it to the table, and on that table, you have a feast of bullshit and lies. the voices are feeding you the shit that you read. if you dont eat then the feast will go to "waste" and decay,soon that garbage will be forgotten about and never seen again. what do the voices inside your head say?


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## x15 (Mar 23, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Now who's assuming? I post fast because I'm smart, and I can read a lot very quickly.



er, has nothing to do with smarts. you post fast because you do not take the time to read what i posted otherwise you would not have misquoted me so many times and not so easily dismiss what i've said.

you dismiss the smithsonian, national geographic and the bible. you don't seem so smart to me.





Stoney McFried said:


> Notice how, when different folks enter the spiritual realm,they see different things?


another assumption on your part. your full of presuppositions, typical.






Stoney McFried said:


> That's because it's all interpreted by YOU,the individual. YOU are your own god.



what are you using as a basis to this?






Stoney McFried said:


> But you'll never believe me,and you'll continue to say your way is THE way.And you'll continue to say that the bible verifies this...but lets think of it this way:
> 
> 
> ...The Bible was written by one or more unknown authors,...



you don't know what you're talking about do you. "one or more?" wtf? is it one or more? LOL





Stoney McFried said:


> most certainly men of their times.The Bible states than an invisible space man in the sky created the earth and everything on it in six thousand years,sacrificed a son because we were so sinful he was gonna kill us, but instead decided it was quicker to kill Jr.,then bring him back, (and take him to heaven without any evidence of him actually being real),and we all get to burn forever if we don't agree.But he loves us. All the logical people laugh, and the nuts make it a religion.


have you even read ANY book in the bible? sheesh!


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## x15 (Mar 24, 2009)

"x15 is we love1"

wow, can you prove this?

I am not love1

if there is a moderator here he/she can verify my ip address to proof i'm not love1


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## Stoney McFried (Mar 24, 2009)

Yeah, typical.When you've been trumped, you start getting offensive. I can read your posts in a short amount of time, and absorb them.You're deliberately twisting the words of the smithsonian, and National geographic, to suit your own agenda.
One or more means One definitely, possibly more, who knows for sure.Bet you don't.
How the hell do you know that everyone see the same things you do?You don't, and you can find a LOT of data regarding folks and their supposed spiritual experiences that are not at all like yours.
I dismiss the bible because it's fiction. I never dismissed the smithsonian or National geographic,I merely said that YOUR particular links to them did nothing to support your case.
I've read the bible, and it's a crock.Now get pissy some more.


x15 said:


> er, has nothing to do with smarts. you post fast because you do not take the time to read what i posted otherwise you would not have misquoted me so many times and not so easily dismiss what i've said.
> 
> you dismiss the smithsonian, national geographic and the bible. you don't seem so smart to me.
> 
> ...


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## x15 (Mar 24, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> ...
> One or more means One definitely, possibly more, who knows for sure...


i called you on this because you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the bible.






Stoney McFried said:


> How the hell do you know that everyone see the same things you do?


a hallucination ceases to be a hallucination when many people see the same thing -- as in seeing Jesus Christ. 

as a fireman I have seen many people die and in their final moments many see Jesus as they are taking their last breaths. 






Stoney McFried said:


> You don't, and you can find a LOT of data regarding folks and their supposed spiritual experiences that are not at all like yours.


true. no problem with this




Stoney McFried said:


> I dismiss the bible because it's fiction.



and you expect people to just believe this because you say so? you give no reference for your belief, talk about blind faith






Stoney McFried said:


> I never dismissed the smithsonian or National geographic,I merely said that YOUR particular links to them did nothing to support your case.


quote a few posts back:
"here's a letterhead from the smithsonian institute, quote: 

"...much of the Bible, in particular the historical books of the old testament, are as accurate historical documents as any that we have from antiquity and are in fact more accurate than many of the Egyptian, Mesopotamian, or Greek histories..."

i guess you didn't read that part


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## wackymack (Mar 24, 2009)

x15 said:


> "x15 is we love1"
> 
> wow, can you prove this?
> 
> ...


 
to deny is to show evidence

to insist on evidence is to hide behind his own evidence

to resist the truth is to block out the light

to see is to be blinded by the truth

to admit the truth is to say that a lie is only the truth reversed

we love1


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## x15 (Mar 24, 2009)

wackymack said:


> miss stoney,dont you look at the tags? appearantly you wasting away by talkin the same nonscense over and over to the same person. take a look at the tags girl and then go make yourself some tea



btw, this is not cool for you to say i am someone who i'm not.

please remove the tag that says i'm "love1"

it's one thing to have a lively debate, it's quite another thing to misrepresent someone else's identity


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## Stoney McFried (Mar 24, 2009)

I know plenty.I know it's an ancient Dianetics.It's a work of fiction that references actual sites, as MANY fictional books do.But I've said this three times now, and you won't address it.


x15 said:


> i called you on this because you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the bible.







Nope, they wanted to see that. There are just as many who saw nothing, dead relatives,buddha,a fucking unicorn....It's because you're dying, and your brain is trying to deal with it.


x15 said:


> a hallucination ceases to be a hallucination when many people see the same thing -- as in seeing Jesus Christ.
> 
> as a fireman I have seen many people die and in their final moments many see Jesus as they are taking their last breaths.













See, that's the difference between you and me.I don't need people to agree with me to believe the way I do. I don't need validation. I've given plenty of references,in this thread, and out of it,and if you're too lazy to look it up, it's not my problem.


x15 said:


> and you expect people to just believe this because you say so? you give no reference for your belief, talk about blind faith







Quote from that letter you linked us to.
"The Biblical writers did not pretend they were giving a complete history; instead they constantly refer us to other sources for full historical details, sources such as "The Annals of the Kings of Judah" (or Israel). It is therefore not possible to try to "prove" the Bible by means of checking its historical or scientific accuracy. The only "proof" to which it can be subjected is this: Does it correctly portray the God-human relationship? In the best analysis, the Bible is a religious book, not an historical document." Guess YOU didn't read THAT.


x15 said:


> quote a few posts back:
> "here's a letterhead from the smithsonian institute, quote:
> 
> "...much of the Bible, in particular the historical books of the old testament, are as accurate historical documents as any that we have from antiquity and are in fact more accurate than many of the Egyptian, Mesopotamian, or Greek histories..."
> ...


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## Stoney McFried (Mar 24, 2009)

Anyway, I'm off to bed, so if you want any more responses from me, you'll have to wait till tomorrow.Goodnight all.


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## wackymack (Mar 24, 2009)

x15 said:


> btw, this is not cool for you to say i am someone who i'm not.
> 
> please remove the tag that says i'm "love1"
> 
> it's one thing to have a lively debate, it's quite another thing to misrepresent someone else's identity


 
who says I put that tag up? maybe we put it up,maybe stoney put it up,maybe a mod put it up? what evidence do you have that states I wrote that tag? to accuse is to be the accused,to state a statement without evidence is to say that i myself may not even exist,this could all be a figment of ones own imagination.

all i did was point out to stoney that she is wasting her life debating someone with spd


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## x15 (Mar 24, 2009)

Stoney McFried said:


> Anyway, I'm off to bed, so if you want any more responses from me, you'll have to wait till tomorrow.Goodnight all.


good night


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## x15 (Mar 24, 2009)

wackymack said:


> who says I put that tag up? maybe we put it up,maybe stoney put it up,maybe a mod put it up? what evidence do you have that states I wrote that tag? to accuse is to be the accused,to state a statement without evidence is to say that i myself may not even exist,this could all be a figment of ones own imagination.
> 
> all i did was point out to stoney that she is wasting her life debating someone with spd



the problem is you're saying i am someone i am not. this is not cool. you don't have to like me but to spread rumors is not cool.

but, again, i'll take the high road in this thread and let karma take care of you.

peace


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## wackymack (Mar 24, 2009)

x15 said:


> the problem is you're saying i am someone i am not. this is not cool. you don't have to like me but to spread rumors is not cool.
> 
> but, again, i'll take the high road in this thread and let karma take care of you.
> 
> peace


 
karma does not exist for it is only a figment of your imagination to feel fulfilled with self content to "knowing" that someone has gotten what is coming. karma is only a word just like god


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## fdd2blk (Mar 24, 2009)

you all need to stop. thank you. 




closed


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