# Hormones vs Co2 - Hormones Cheaper Potentially Yeild the Same!



## eza82 (Jan 4, 2009)

Need some understanding & HAVE grown and have some idea of plant biology.......but if you keen it will help >>>

PLEASE ADD and or CORRECT!!!! ALOT OF INFO SO STRAP YOUR SELF IN GRAB A BONG......... youll be here awhile !
BASIS OF WHAT I HAVE LEARNT SO FAR - 
The hormones are not magic. All these hormones are produced naturally by the plant.....the amounts produced by the plant are genetically determined. THIS IS WHERE WE MAKE OUR IMPACT. Ever get a clone/plant that just refuses to grow like the other plants and stays a "dwarf" with misformed leaves, yet the other sister plants are thriving? Chances are the dwarf is not kicking out the hormones for one reason or another. adding hormones to your growing methods allows you to enhance the plant even beyond it's *genetic capabilities*. The stems are thicker and stronger, leaves are bigger and greener, roots are healthier and more lush and the flowers are bigger, heavier and more resinous. But.....and it's a BIG but....If you can't grow excellent plants without hormones, then adding hormones will make things worse. 
Only common sense. You are stimulating the plants to "kick it up a notch" on the growing scale. The plant will need good growing support....nutrients, light, etc, etc.
It's the same sort of thing if you are using CO2 supplementation. You need to have your growing program working @max on other levels first. But In my mind can be CHEAPER and just as effective as Co2 Supp`s. If you had both well...... now were talkin....


HERE ARE SOME OF THOSE HORMONES IN MJ I WISH TO MANIPULATE AND THIS IS WHAT I HAVE COME UP WITH OVER MANY HOURS OF STUDY: 

Plant Hormone &#8212; an endogenous regulator. To be a hormone, a chemical must be produced within the plant, transported from a site of production to a site of action, and be active in small amounts.


GIBBERELLIC ACID (GA3)

Probably the best known of the plant hormones. It's produced by the plants tips and is responsible for the plant growth. The problem with GA3, is that most growth is in the form of "stretching" which isn't always diserable, so except for seeds and clones.

GA3 has some other uses as well. You can intiate male fowers on a female plant but using high doses every day for several days, you can also induce female flowers earlier and yield bigger flowers .

The gibberellins are widespread throughout the plant kingdom, and more than 75 have been isolated, to date. Rather than giving each a specific name, the compounds are numbered&#8212;for example, GA1, GA2, and so on. Gibberellic acid three (GA3) is the most widespread and most thoroughly studied. The gibberellins are especially abundant in seeds and young shoots where they control stem elongation by stimulating both cell division and elongation (auxin stimulates only cell elongation). The gibberellins are carried by the xylem and phloem. Numerous effects have been cataloged that involve about 15 or fewer of the gibberellic acids. The greater number with no known effects apparently are precursors to the active ones. 

*I know there has been experimentation with GA3 sprayed on genetically dwarf plants stimulates elongation of the dwarf plants to normal heights. Normal-height plants sprayed with GA3 become giants. like addicott study on next post.*

I Found a botinist that germinationg 2000yr old exstinct SEEDS into plants with this hormone.

although the results of gibberellic acid (GA3) applications vary depending on many factors, including the type of plants its applied to. In one study of persimmon yield (1) it was found that applications of 15 to 30 PPM increased yields by 50% to 400%. In another study (2) it was even found that if gibberellic acid is applied to a plant the next generation of the plant would also benefit from faster flowering and increased height. In another study of walnut trees it was found that applications of gibbarellic acid (GA3) increased growth by 567% (3).
1) Increasing Persimmon Yields With Gibberellic Acid [www.actahort.org/books/120/120_32.htm]
2) Generations Living with Gibberellic Acid [www.sidwell.edu/us/science/vlb5/Independent_Research_Projects/cgraham/]
3) Gibberellic Acid for Fruit Set and Seed Germination [www.crfg.org/tidbits/gibberellic.html]

A study on persimmons 1 increased yield by at least 50%. This was done with a foliar spray of 15 to 30 ppm when the plants where at full bloom.
1) http://www.actahort.org/books/120/120_32.htm

retail names:
Gibberellic Acid (GA3), 

*Functions of Gibberellins* 






Active gibberellins show many physiological effects, each depending on the type of gibberellin present as well as the species of plant. Some of the physiological processes stimulated by gibberellins are outlined below (Davies, 1995; Mauseth, 1991; Raven, 1992; Salisbury and Ross, 1992). 

Stimulate stem elongation by stimulating cell division and elongation. 

Stimulates bolting/flowering in response to long days. 

Breaks seed dormancy in some plants which require stratification or light to induce germination. 

Stimulates enzyme production (a-amylase) in germinating cereal grains for mobilization of seed reserves. 

Induces maleness in dioecious flowers (sex expression). 

Can cause parthenocarpic (seedless) fruit development. 

Can delay senescence in leaves and citrus fruits. 

ADD- *MrJDGaF*
Jasmonic acid/Salicylic acid 
Large-scale trials of the technology are expected this year. 
Researchers have found that plants grown from seeds first dipped in the acid are considerably more resistant to pests. 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7656078.stm
jasmonic acid. Large-scale trials of the technology are expected this year. 
Researchers have found that plants grown from seeds first dipped in the acid are considerably more resistant to pests. 

Leaf trichomes protect plants from attack by insect herbivores and are often induced following damage. Hormonal regulation of this plant induction response has not been previously studied. In a series of experiments, we addressed the effects of artificial damage, jasmonic acid, salicylic acid, and gibberellin on induction of trichomes in Arabidopsis. Artificial damage and jasmonic acid caused significant increases in trichome production of leaves. The jar1-1 mutant exhibited normal trichome induction following treatment with jasmonic acid, suggesting that adenylation of jasmonic acid is not necessary. Salicylic acid had a negative effect on trichome production and consistently reduced the effect of jasmonic acid, suggesting negative cross-talk between the jasmonate and salicylate-dependent defense pathways. Interestingly, the effect of salicylic acid persisted in the nim1-1 mutant, suggesting that the Npr1/Nim1 gene is not downstream of salicylic acid in the negative regulation of trichome production. Last, we found that gibberellin and jasmonic acid had a synergistic effect on the induction of trichomes, suggesting important interactions between these two compounds.
http://www.citeulike.org/group/2438/article/853395

BRASSINOLIDE

Brassinolide is a naturally occuring plant steroid; it is normally found in plants. In fact, it was first discovered HORMONE in plants. Brassinolide has been found to be an important element for plant growth. Foliar spray about every three weeks with a final spray just as change the lights for flowering. It will increase a plants resistance to stress (cold, drought, too high a salt content), it helps the plant locate light, it strengthens a plants resistance to disease. It will also stimulate a plant to grow it's overall root mass. The overall effect is that the plant will be much healthier, stronger and thus the yield will be better. Estimate that the effect is about a 50% better yield than the untreated plants. 
A study concluded that Brassinolide increased the growth of the primary root by 90%. 
Another study concluded that a 0.0001 PPM application for 8 hours has the best results for the creation of some roots.

http://www.super-grow.biz/Brassinolide.jsp#germination

MEPIQUAT CHLORIDE

This is actually a growth inhibitor. It is sold in Hydro stores in pre-made solutions under various brand names. The idea is that it will stop the plant growth when it's time to start flowering. Not only does this control the final height (useful if you have a low ceiling problem), but also the plant will start to allocate it's growth resources into bud growth sooner. . The growth is halted (actually, some growth still occurs). the effect you see is that bud size that were usually about 5 weeks old are now bud size at 3 weeks. This gives you larger early buds and as you know, you can only build from there. The hit the plants with the Benzylaminopurine and the bud growth takes off.
Abscisic acid - ESSENTIALLY STOPS GROWTH also inhibitor.
Abscisic acid (ABA), despite its name, does not initiate abscission (shedding) , although in the 1960s when it was named botanists thought that it did. It is synthesized in plastids from carotenoids and diffuses in all directions through vascular tissues and parenchyma. *Its principal effect is inhibition of cell growth*. ABA increases in developing seeds and promotes dormancy. If leaves experience water stress, ABA amounts increase immediately, causing the stomata to close.

*Functions of Abscisic Acid* 







The following are some of the phyysiological responses known to be associated with abscisic acid (Davies, 1995; Mauseth, 1991; Raven, 1992; Salisbury and Ross, 1992).

Stimulates the closure of stomata (water stress brings about an increase in ABA synthesis). 

Inhibits shoot growth but will not have as much affect on roots or may even promote growth of roots. 

Induces seeds to synthesize storage proteins. 

Inhibits the affect of gibberellins on stimulating de novo synthesis of a-amylase. 

Has some effect on induction and maintanance of dormancy. 

Induces gene transcription especially for proteinase inhibitors in response to wounding which may explain an apparent role in pathogen defense
Auxins
On the cellular level, *auxin is essential for cell growth, affecting both cell division and cellular expansion*. Depending on the specific tissue, auxin may promote axial elongation (as in shoots), lateral expansion (as in root swelling), or isodiametric expansion (as in fruit growth). In some cases (coleoptile growth) auxin-promoted cellular expansion occurs in the absence of cell division. In other cases, auxin-promoted cell division and cell expansion may be closely sequenced within the same tissue (root initiation, fruit growth). In a living plant it appears that auxins and other plant hormones nearly always interact to determine patterns of plant development.
An auxin, indole-3-acetic acid (IAA), was the first plant hormone identified. It is manufactured primarily in the shoot tips (in leaf primordia and young leaves), in embryos, and in parts of developing flowers and seeds. Its transport from cell to cell through the parenchyma surrounding the vascular tissues requires the expenditure of ATP energy. IAA moves in one direction only&#8212;that is, the movement is polar and, in this case, downward. Such downward movement in shoots is said to be basipetal movement, and in roots it is acropetal. 
Auxins alone or in combination with other hormones are responsible for many aspects of plant growth. IAA in particular: 
Activates the differentiation of vascular tissue in the shoot apex and in calluses; initiates division of the vascular cambium in the spring; promotes growth of vascular tissue in healing of wounds.
Activates cellular elongation by increasing the plasticity of the cell wall.
Maintains apical dominance indirectly by stimulating the production of ethylene, which directly inhibits lateral bud growth.
Activates a gene required for making a protein necessary for growth and other genes for the synthesis of wall materials made and secreted by dictyosomes.
Promotes initiation and growth of adventitious roots in cuttings.
Promotes the growth of many fruits (from auxin produced by the developing seeds).
Suppresses the abscission (separation from the plant) of fruits and leaves (lowered production of auxin in the leaf is correlated with formation of the abscission layer).
Inhibits most flowering (but promotes flowering of pineapples).
Activates tropic responses.
Controls aging and senescence, dormancy of seeds.

*Synthetic auxins are extensively used as herbicides, the most widely known being 2,4-D and the notorious 2,4,5-T, which were used in a 1:1 combination as Agent Orange during the Vietnam War and sprayed over the Vietnam forests as a defoliant.* 

*Synthetic Auxins*

Chemists have synthesized several inexpensive compounds similar in structure to IAA. Synthetic auxins, like naphthalene acetic acid, of NAA, are used extensively to promote root formation on stem and leaf cuttings. Gardeners often spray auxins on tomato plants to increase the number of fruits on each plant. When NAA is sprayed on young fruits of apple and olive trees, some of the fruits drop off so that the remaining fruits grow larger. When NAA is sprayed directly on maturing fruits, such as apples, pears and citrus fruits, several weeks before they are ready to be picked; NAA prevents the fruits from dropping off the trees before they are mature. The fact that auxins can have opposite effects, causing fruit to drop or preventing fruit from dropping, illustrates an important point. *The effects of a hormone on a plant often depend on the stage of the plant's development. *
NAA is used to prevent the undesirable sprouting of stems from the base of ornamental trees. As previously discussed, stems contain a lateral bud at the base of each leaf. IN many stems, these buds fail to sprout as long as the plant's shoot tip is still intact. The inhibition of lateral buds by the presence of the shoot tip is called apical dominance. If the shoot tip of a plant is removed, the lateral buds begin to grow. If IAA or NAA is applied to the cut tip of the stem, the lateral buds remain dormant. This adaptation is manipulated to cultivate beautiful ornamental trees. NAA is used commercially to prevent buds from sprouting on potatoes during storage. 
Another important synthetic auxin is 2,4-D, which is an herbicide, or weed killer. It selectively kills dicots, such as dandelions and pigweed, without injuring monocots, such as lawn grasses and cereal crops. Given our major dependence on cereals for food; 2,4-D has been of great value to agriculture. A mixture of 2, 4-D and another auxin, called Agent Orange, was used to destroy foliage in the jungles of Vietnam. A non-auxin contaminant in Agent Orange has caused severe health problems in many people who were exposed to it. 

*Functions of Auxin* 







The following are some of the responses that auxin is known to cause (Davies, 1995; Mauseth, 1991; Raven, 1992; Salisbury and Ross, 1992).

Stimulates cell elongation 

Stimulates cell division in the cambium and, in combination with cytokinins in tissue culture 

Stimulates differentiation of phloem and xylem 

Stimulates root initiation on stem cuttings and lateral root development in tissue culture 

Mediates the tropistic response of bending in response to gravity and light 

The auxin supply from the apical bud suppresses growth of lateral buds 

Delays leaf senescence 

Can inhibit or promote (via ethylene stimulation) leaf and fruit abscission 

Can induce fruit setting and growth in some plants 

Involved in assimilate movement toward auxin possibly by an effect on phloem transport 

Delays fruit ripening 

Promotes flowering in Bromeliads 

Stimulates growth of flower parts 

Promotes (via ethylene production) femaleness in dioecious flowers 

Stimulates the production of ethylene at high concentrations 
wiki: 
*Boric acid*, also called *boracic acid* or *orthoboric acid* or *Acidum Boricum*, is a weak acid often used as an antiseptic, insecticide, flame retardant, in nuclear power plants to control the fission rate of uranium, and as a precursor of other chemical compounds. It exists in the form of colorless crystals or a white powder and dissolves in water. This is also inhibitor But be [email protected]#ked if Im putting this near my plants..... Nuclear, control fusion...... We will steer clear of this to start till ive got more studies reviewed. Still part of Auxin family..

ORGANS are the relating factor:
Growth and division of plant cells together result in growth of tissue, and specific tissue growth contributes to the development of plant organs. Growth of cells contributes to the plant's size, but uneven localized growth produces bending, turning and directionalization of organs- for example, stems turning toward light sources (phototropism), roots growing in response to gravity (gravitropism), ETC
Organization of the plant
As auxins contribute to organ shaping, they are also fundamentally required for proper development of the plant itself. Without hormonal regulation and organization, plants would be merely proliferating heaps of similar cells. Auxin employment begins in the embryo of the plant, where directional distribution of auxin ushers in subsequent growth and development of primary growth poles, then forms buds of future organs. Throughout the plant's life, auxin helps the plant maintain the polarity of growth and recognize where it has its branches (or any organ) connected.
A number of other effects of auxin are described. (Indoleacetic acid was called heteroauxin in the older literature. The hypothetical auxin a and auxin b have never been isolated and are now generally considered invalid.)
*Indole-3-butyric acid (IBA) - rooting *
IBA is a plant hormone in the auxin family and is an ingredient in many commercial plant rooting horticultural products.
For use as such, it should be dissolved in about 75% (or purer) alcohol (as IBA does not dissolve in water), until a concentration from between 10,000 ppm to 50,000 ppm is achieved - this solution should then be diluted to the required concentration using distilled water. The solution should be kept in a cool, dark place for best results.
This compound had been thought to be strictly synthetic; however, it was reported that the compound was isolated from leaves and seeds of maize and other species.
Indole-3-acetic acid (IAA) is the most abundant naturally occurring auxin. Plants produce active IAA both by de novo synthesis and by releasing IAA from conjugates. This review emphasizes recent genetic experiments and complementary biochemical analyses that are beginning to unravel the complexities of IAA biosynthesis in plants. Multiple pathways exist for de novo IAA synthesis in plants, and a number of plant enzymes can liberate IAA from conjugates. This multiplicity has contributed to the current situation in which no pathway of IAA biosynthesis in plants has been unequivocally established. Genetic and biochemical experiments have demonstrated both tryptophan-dependent and tryptophan-independent routes of IAA biosynthesis. The recent application of precise and sensitive methods for quantitation of IAA and its metabolites to plant mutants disrupted in various aspects of IAA regulation is beginning to elucidate the multiple pathways that control IAA levels in the plant. 

Antiauxin &#8212; (synonyms: auxin inhibitor, auxin competitor, auxin antagonist). A compound which competitively inhibits (in the biochemical sense) the action of auxin.
Continued research on auxin has made it apparent that auxin physiology is much more complicated than it first seemed. Auxin appears to be present in all living parts of the plant, mature as well as immature. The amounts present are effected by at least three general processes: auxin production, auxin transport, and auxin inactivation. Many of the early investigations did not recognise the existence of these three processes and their results must be re-evaluated. For example, many studies of auxin transport did not take into account the probability of considerable auxin inactivation during the course of transport. Auxin is produced principally in young tissues, but can also be produced by mature tissues. The amino acid tryptophan, a common constituent of proteins, is the precursor of auxin, but the precise chemical steps of its conversion to auxin are not yet settled. The transport of auxin can be through the parenchyma, as it is in the oat coleoptile, but in more mature tissues transport is largely in the phloem. In the coleoptile transport is correlated with the streaming of protoplasm. Auxin inactivation is accomplished by an oxidative enzyme which can function either in the dark or under the influence of light. Mature tissues have relatively high auxin-inactivating capacities. In addition to these general processes other factors, still obscure, also influence the auxin in tissues. The interaction of these processes and factors determines the level of auxin which is available to influence growth and morphogenesis
1-Naphthaleneacetic Acid (NAA), 
The effects of 1-naphthaleneacetic acid (NAA) applied at various levels and times on yield, seed index, protein and oil content and fatty acid compositions of cotton plants seeds were studied. NAA increased the seed yield/plant and the seed, protein, and oil yields/ha compared to the control. A level of 20 ppm proved best for yield. Most NAA treatments significantly increased the seed index, but only slight increases in seed protein content were recorded.

ITS TOO BIGGER SUBJECT - try this for MORE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auxins

RETAIL NAMES:
1-Naphthaleneacetic Acid (NAA), Indole-3-acetic Acid (IAA), Indole-3-butyric Acid (IBA), Indole-3-Propionic Acid (IPA), (+)-cis,trans-Abscisic Acid (ABA) 

Cytokinins
Named because of their discovered role in cell division (cytokinesis), the cytokinins have a molecular structure similar to adenine. Naturally occurring zeatin, isolated first from corn ( Zea mays), is the most active of the cytokinins. Cytokinins are found in sites of active cell division in plants&#8212;for example, in root tips, seeds, fruits, and leaves. They are transported in the xylem and work in the presence of auxin to promote cell division. Differing cytokinin:auxin ratios change the nature of organogenesis. If kinetin is high and auxin low, shoots are formed; if kinetin is low and auxin high, roots are formed. Lateral bud development, which is retarded by auxin, is promoted by cytokinins. Cytokinins also delay the senescence of leaves and promote the expansion of cotyledons. 
AS PER WIKI:
There are two types of cytokinins: adenine-type cytokinins represented by kinetin, zeatin and *6-benzylaminopurine (mentioned)*, as well as phenylurea-type cytokinins like diphenylurea or thidiazuron (TDZ). The adenine-type cytokinins are synthesised in stems, leaves and roots, which is the major site.Cambiumand possibly other actively dividing tissues are also sites of cytokinin biosynthesis.There is no evidence that the phenylurea cytokinins occur naturally in plant tissues. Cytokinins are involved in both local and long distance signalling, the latter of which involves the same _in planta_ transport mechanism as used for transport of purines and nucleosides.
retail names:
6-Furfurylaminopurine (Kinetin), Para-Aminobenzoic Acid, trans-Zeatin, Thidiazuron (TDZ), Zeatin Riboside

*Cytokinin Functions* 







A list of some of the known physiological effects caused by cytokinins are listed below. The response will vary depending on the type of cytokinin and plant species (Davies, 1995; Mauseth, 1991; Raven, 1992; Salisbury and Ross, 1992). 

Stimulates cell division. 

Stimulates morphogenesis (shoot initiation/bud formation) in tissue culture. 

Stimulates the growth of lateral buds-release of apical dominance. 

Stimulates leaf expansion resulting from cell enlargement. 

May enhance stomatal opening in some species. 

Promotes the conversion of etioplasts into chloroplasts via stimulation of chlorophyll synthesis. 

*6-BENZYLAMINOPURINE*

Effects are Latrial growth giving it thicker and stronger stems, healthier and larger leaves (more surface area to capture light) at 300 ppm. Plant will have more branches, foliar spray of 2000ppm. The advantage is that you don't need to pinch of the plants growing tip (thus decreasing the gibberrelins), the plant stays healthy and doesn't stop growing to repair the tip. But dosent gain hieght.

Another big bonus. If you spray MJ with 300ppm at the end of the 4th week of flowring there is a dramatic increase in bud growth. Combined with the earlier spraying of Brassinlide , the end result is outstanding in terms of quality and yield.

AS PER WIKI:
*6-Benzylaminopurine*, *benzyl adenine* or *BAP* is a first-generation synthetic cytokinin which elicits plant growth and development responses, setting blossoms and stimulating fruit richness by stimulating cell division. It is an inhibitor of respiratory kinase in plants, and increases post-harvest life of green vegetables.
6-benzylaminopurine was first synthetized and tested in the laboratories of plant physiologist Folke K. Skoog.
retail names:
6-(y,y-dimethylallylamino)purine (2ip). 6-Benzylaminopurine (6-BA, BA, BAP), 2-carboxylphenyl 3-phenyIpropane 1,3-dione (CPD), 

Ethylene
Ethylene is a simple gaseous hydrocarbon produced from an amino acid and appears in most plant tissues in large amounts when they are stressed. It diffuses from its site of origin into the air and affects surrounding plants as well. Large amounts ordinarily are produced by roots, senescing flowers, ripening fruits, and the apical meristem of shoots. Auxin increases ethylene production, as does ethylene itself&#8212;small amounts of ethylene initiate copious production of still more. Ethylene stimulates the ripening of fruit and initiates abscission of fruits and leaves. (this is really intresting could be whats in LAFEMME ) *In monoecious plants (those with separate male and female flowers borne on the same plant), gibberellins and ethylene concentrations determine the sex of the flowers: Flower buds exposed to high concentrations of ethylene produce carpellate flowers, while gibberellins induce staminate ones.*

WIKIPEDIA DEF:Ethylene is produced at a faster rate in rapidly growing and dividing cells, especially in darkness. New growth and newly-germinated seedlings produce more ethylene than can escape the plant, which leads to elevated amounts of ethylene, inhibiting leaf expansion. As the new shoot is exposed to light, reactions by photochrome in the plant's cells produce a signal for ethylene production to decrease, allowing leaf expansion. Ethylene affects cell growth and cell shape; when a growing shoot hits an obstacle while underground, ethylene production greatly increases, preventing cell elongation and causing the stem to swell. The resulting thicker stem can exert more pressure against the object impeding its path to the surface. If the shoot does not reach the surface and the ethylene stimulus becomes prolonged, it affects the stems natural geotropic response, which is to grow upright, allowing it to grow around an object. Studies seem to indicate that ethylene affects stem diameter and height: When stems of trees are subjected to wind, causing lateral stress, greater ethylene production occurs, resulting in thicker, more sturdy tree trunks and branches. Ethylene affects fruit-ripening: Normally, when the seeds are mature, ethylene production increases and builds-up within the fruit, resulting in a climacteric event just before seed dispersal. The nuclear protein ETHYLENE INSENSITIVE2 (EIN2) is regulated by ethylene production, and, in turn, regulates other hormones including ABA and stress hormones


*Ethylene *








http://www.biology-online.org/11/10_growth_and_plant_hormones.htm

The hormone ethylene is responsible for the ripening of fruits. Unlike the other four classes of plant hormones, ethylene is a gas at room temperature. Ethylene gas diffuses easily through the air from one plant to another. The saying "One bad apple spoils the barrel" has its basis in the effects of ethylene gas. One rotting apple will produce ethylene gas, which stimulates nearby apples to ripen and eventually spoil because of over ripening. 
Ethylene is usually applied in a solution of ethephon, a synthetic chemical that breaks down and releases ethylene gas. It is used to ripen bananas, honeydew melons and tomatoes. Oranges, lemons, and grapefruits often remain green when they are ripe. Although the fruit tastes good, consumers often will not buy them, because oranges are supposed to be orange, right? The application of ethylene to green citrus fruit causes the development of desirable citrus colors, such as orange and yellow. In some plant species, ethylene promotes abscission, which is the detachment of leaves, flowers, or fruits from a plant. Cherries and walnuts are harvested with mechanical tree shakers. Ethylene treatment increases the number of fruits that fall to the ground when the trees are shaken. Leaf abscission is also an adaptive advantage for the plant. Dead, damaged or infected leaves drop to the ground rather than shading healthy leaves or spreading disease. The plant can minimize water loss in the winter, when the water in the plant is often frozen.
*Ethephon* is the trade name of a plant growth regulator (basic manufacturer Rhône-Poulenc). Upon metabolism by the plant, it is converted into ethylene, a potent regulator of plant growth and maturity. It is often used on wheat, coffee, tobacco, cotton and rice in order to help the plant's fruit reach maturity more quickly. In cotton, which initiates fruiting over a period of several weeks, ethephon is used to make all bolls open simultaneously in order to enhance harvest efficiency.
Although many environmental groups worry about toxicity resulting from use of growth hormones and fertilizers, the toxicity of ethephon is actually very low, and any ethephon used on the plant material is converted very quickly to ethylene. Im not sure on getting the stuff yet... But plenty around.. Could this be the next CARBON type boost ??


*VITIMANS....................*

WIKI:
*Thiamin* or *thiamine*, also known as *vitamin B1* and *aneurine hydrochloride*, is the term for a family of molecules sharing a common structural feature responsible for its activity as a vitamin. It is one of the B vitamins. Its most common form is a colorless chemical compound with a chemical formula C12H17N4OS. This form of thiamin is soluble in water, methanol, and glycerol and practically insoluble in acetone, ether, chloroform, and benzene. Another form of thiamin known as TTFD has different solubility properties and belongs to a family of molecules often referred to as fat-soluble thiamins. Thiamin decomposes if heated. Its chemical structure contains a pyrimidine ring and a thiazole ring
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiamin

Wiki:
*Pyridoxine* 
is one of the compounds that can be called vitamin B6, along with Pyridoxal and Pyridoxamine. It differs from pyridoxamine by the substituent at the '4' position. It is often used as 'pyridoxine hydrochloride'.
Water soluble
*B vitamins*
*B1* (Thiamine)* ·* *B2* (Riboflavin)* ·* *B3* (Niacin, Nicotinamide)* ·* *B5* (Pantothenic acid, Dexpanthenol, Pantethine)* ·* *B6* (*Pyridoxine*, Pyridoxal phosphate, Pyridoxamine)
*B7* (Biotin)* ·* *B9* (Folic acid, Folinic acid)* ·* *B12* (Cyanocobalamin, Hydroxocobalamin, Methylcobalamin, Cobamamide)
Other
*C* (Ascorbic acid)* ·* Choline






THERES PLENTY MORE BUT SURE IVE GOT THE IMPORTANT ONES.
I DIDNT SAY IT WAS GOING TO BE EASIER ! LOL



Point: If you add just Co2 (CARBON) and not understand & APPLYING the above..... your not yeilding your max potetial ??


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## eza82 (Jan 4, 2009)

to fully understand.... I would never have dwarf probs, sick plants, always grow beyond its parents, yeild better every time...etc
NOBODY TOLD ME THIS WOULD BE SO TECH!

*HELP WANTED*


*RECRUITING PEOPLE WHO WANT TO CONDUCT SMALL TEST WITH VARIOUS DIFFERENT HORMONES AT DIFFERENT TIMES !!!????*

*BUYING ALL INGREDIANT IN PURE FORM..... 1grm at a time ... . Come in gel cap form.... CHEAP. **DONT HAVE SUPPLIERS YET SO HELP THERE TOO.*
*have seen around though.. should not be hard*
*Also use natural forms such as willow water, asprin etc*


*THE EXPERIMENT....................*

-Measure the ripening of unripe BUD induced by the plant hormone ethylene, with increased light 19/5 example 
-Determine if plant size could be increased by manipulating / regulating 6-ben,IAA,GA3 hormone,ETC 
-What is the role of hormones in synchronizing ripening? 
-The Effect of same Hormones on different strains 
-The effect of different concentrations of the plant growth substance IAA and gibberellic acid on the growth of roots and shoots 
-Compare rate of plant growth using two different growth hormones 
-The effect of estrogen on the growth of veg 
-The effect of Rootone hormone on plant growth - which i thinks been cover by PANHEAD & fddblk { Root gel and some experiments } with GOOD results
-Effect of Different Concentrations of IAA on Root Initiation 
-Simple experiments to explain the role of phytohormones in plants 
-The effects of plant regulators (auxins and cytokinins) on different strains
-Abscisic acid for seed germination and enhancement of its catabolism by gibberellin 
-Phase breakdown of naturally produced hormones and ballster exsisting
- ETC


Basiclly Bolster all hormones adn consintrate our efforts with the major groups..........auxins, gibberellins, ethylene, cytokinins, and abscisic acid.

IVE GOT SO MANY QUESTIONS THAT CAN ONLY BE ANSWERED BY DOING THEM I THINK...... info on projects are hard to find!


*.*


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## spiked1 (Jan 4, 2009)

Very interesting read, thanks.


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## worm5376 (Jan 4, 2009)

im too high to read this sorry ;[


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## eza82 (Jan 4, 2009)

spiked1 said:


> Very interesting read, thanks.


thanks champ ! SPENT SOME TIME........ bUT I THINK IT WILL STIR SOME CONTRVERSY!


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## eza82 (Jan 4, 2009)

mrjdgaf said:


> gibberellic acid can be used on seeds to increase resistance to pests/disease, see here:https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/117640-new-natural-pest-control.html


will update.....


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## eza82 (Jan 4, 2009)

thanks for info -*mrjdgaf*


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## eza82 (Jan 4, 2009)

*Plant Hormones *

_By Frederick T. Addicott*,_ 
_Fullbright Research Scholar, Department of Botany, Victoria University of Wellington_ 


Growth Hormones: Gibberellins. The gibberellins produce effects on growth, particularly cell elongation, which are very similar to the effects of auxin, but they function in situations where auxin does not promote elongation. Although physiological and biochemical knowledge of them is still fragmentary, they are growth factors which are probably hormones and hence should be included here. The chemicals derive their name from the fungus _Gibberella_, from which they can be obtained. Immature seeds are also very rich sources.
One of the most interesting series of experiments with the gibberellins was conducted with a dwarf corn (maize). This particular mutant dwarf had been the subject of an intensive auxin study, and its auxin physiology was found to be completely normal. That is, auxin production, transport and inactivation were identical with those of normal corn, and applications of additional auxin did not affect its growth; the plants never grew more than a few inches tall. However, weekly sprays of gibberellins stimulated the mutant to the normal rate of growth and practically normal appearance. The results of a similar experiment conducted several years earlier, which were at the time puzzling, can now be interpreted as due to gibberellins: an extract from immature bean seeds was applied to a bush variety of beans (_Phaseolus_); the stems then elongated in the manner characteristic of the tall varieties of beans. In other experiments, gibberellins sprayed on pasture grasses have induced abnormally rapid growth.
Another effect of gibberellins is in relation to both growth and flowering. _Hyocyamus_ is one of the typical &#8216;long-day plants&#8217;. It grows as a rosette with its leaves clustered about the very short stem until it has been exposed to a period of cold followed by a period of long days. Then the stem rapidly elongates and produces flowers. It has been found that gibberellins can replace the cold treatment; sprays followed by long days stimulate stem elongation with flowering.
Wound Hormone. Following an injury to a plant, the parenchyma cells underlying the injured area are stimulated to divide and form a protective callus. Under the stimulus, cells divide which would otherwise remain intact to the death of the plant. Early experiments showed that if the injured area is washed immediately, cell division is prevented; this suggested that a hormone might be involved. Such a hormone was isolated by Bonner and English. Starting with 100 pounds of string beans they isolated a small amount of a chemical which they called _traumatic acid_ (chemically, _decene dicarboxylic acid_) which is the wound hormone of beans. However, this compound does not stimulate cell division in other species. So there remain other chemicals yet to be identified as wound hormones.
Root Growth Hormones. Knowledge of root growth hormones has come largely from experiments with the culture of isolated roots. The repeated attempts to culture isolated tissues of plants were successful in 1933 with tomato roots and a culture medium consisting of sucrose, salts, and yeast extract. Yeast extract is a very complex mixture of chemicals and attention was immediately given to determination of the active components. These were soon found to be _thiamin_ and _pyridoxin_ which in small amounts (a few parts per million) could completely replace the yeast extract. Thus tomato roots, which in the field would live only a few months, have been kept growing in culture in a synthetic medium since soon after 1933. Thiamin and pyridoxin were first called growth factors, since their role in the intact plant was not known. However, Bonner showed that they are produced in leaves and transported downward to roots, thus establishing them as hormones.
Other experiments showed that _niacin_ is a root growth factor, and is presumably also a root growth hormone. In various combinations thiamin, pyridoxin or niacin will support the indefinite growth of isolated roots of many species. For a few species other factors are required such as the amino acids glycine, lysine and arginine.
Although the roots of many plants will grow rapidly (at rates at least equal to the rates of roots on intact plants) and indefinitely in synthetic culture media, important problems still remain unsolved. One is the culture of isolated roots of monocotyledonous plants. In spite of numerous attempts, these have never been established in culture. Another is the development of the cambium, which has not been induced in roots of established 
cultures. Further, branching of cultured roots is often abnormal. Thus the knowledge of root growth physiology is far from complete and much work lies ahead.
Experiments with root cultures brought to light an important interrelationship of vitamins and hormones. The chemicals thiamin, pyridoxin and niacin are vitamins, necessary in the diet of animals and other heterotrophs for normal growth and maintenance. In the green plant these same chemicals function in the physiological role of hormones. And within the cells of organisms they each function as a part of a vital enzyme. Thus the same chemical may function in any of three physiological roles: *vitamin, hormone, enzyme*.
Leaf Growth Hormone: Phyllocaline. In a search for hormones other than auxin Went performed an extensive series of grafting experiments. He worked with varieties of garden peas which differed markedly in their growth habits. The results showed, for example, that leaves of different varities differed in their ability to stimulate root growth. Similar differences among roots and buds were observed. Went postulated that these differences in growth were the result of differences in production of special hormones by the varieties. One of these postulated hormones was called phyllocaline. It is produced in cotyledons and mature leaves, and stimulates the growth of young leaves. This hormone was isolated and identified as _adenine._ Another property of adenine was later discovered; tissue cultures of plant callus ordinarily grow indefinitely as an undifferentiated, or at best, slightly differentiated mass of cells. In the culture medium adenine stimulates the differentiation of leafy buds.
Adenine too has multiple physiological roles: It is a vitamin B for some organisms and within cells functions as a part of several enzymes and of the energy-storing phosphate compounds. Flowering Hormone: Florigen. Flowering is influenced by many factors including mineral and carbohydrate nutrition, temperature, photoperiod, and a postulated hormone, florigen. This hormone is produced in leaves (under particular conditions) and is transported to buds where it brings about the conversion of a vegetative stem apex to a reproductive stem apex (flower bud). Numerous experiments indicate its existence, but attempts to isolate florigen have not yet been successful. For further discussion of flowering see the recent article by Sussex.
_Reproductive Hormones_. In the lower plants a number of hormones influencing reproductive processes have been described, as well as nutritional factors which can be called _reproductive vitamins._ 
One of the best known examples of reproductive hormones is in a heterothallic species of a water mould, _Achlya_, where Raper in extensive experiments found four hormones: 
Growth Factors. Experiments have demonstrated growth factor requirements for many plant parts. Many, possibly all, of these growth factors are plant hormones, but present knowledge is too fragmentary in most cases to permit positive statements.
_Pollen germination and tube growth factors._ Pollen of some species will germinate and grow well in artificial media; pollen of others will grow poorly or not at all. Stigmatic exudates are usually very stimulatory and presumably provide hormones required by the pollen. Chemicals which have been found to promote germination or tube growth of various species include: boric acid, manganous sulphate, ascorbic acid, aminobenzoic acid, indoleacetic acid, inositol, lactoflavin, guanine, pyridoxin, thiamin.

_Growth factors of tissue and organ cultures._ Since the successful establishment of root cultures, other organs and several types of tissues have been successfully cultured including embryos, shoots, and callus. Often successful culture has required the use of complex mixtures such as malt extract, young seed extracts, or coconut milk. The latter is a potent source of important growth factors; its use has enabled the culture of very small embryos, but the active chemicals in coconut milk have not been identified. Growth factors which have been identified include: ascorbic acid, adenine, biotin, indoleacetic acid, niacin, pantothenic acid, thiamin. It is of interest to note that each of these is already known to have functions as a vitamin and/or hormone.

Growth Inhibiting Hormones. The discussion to this point has dealt with hormones and other factors which in the main promote growth and development. (A few of these, such as auxin, will under some conditions inhibit or retard growth.) In addition, there is now an increasing list of chemicals whose principal function appears to be the inhibition of growth. Since these chemicals are endogenous, often act at very low concentrations, and move from a site of production to a site of action, they should be considered hormones. Only seed germination inhibitors will be mentioned here; knowledge of others is very fragmentary.
_Germination inhibitors_ act variously: (a) to prevent premature seed germination; (b) to extend the period of germination by permitting only a fraction of the seeds to germinate at any one time; and (c) to suppress germination of competing species while permitting germination of a favoured species. Evenari has described over 120 inhibitors; these are produced in fruit pulp, fruit coats, endosperm, seed coats, embryos, leaves, bulbs, and roots. Identified inhibitors include: hydrocyanic acid, ammonia, ethylene, mustard oils, aldehydes, alkaloids, essential oils, lactones, organic acids. It is of interest that an inhibitor can sometimes stimulate germination. Inhibition or stimulation may result from different concentrations, but sometimes one follows the other from the same concentration.
In a few decades the subject of plant hormones has expanded to a broad and amazingly complex field of plant physiology, at least equal in complexity to the field of animal hormones. This research received much of its initial impetus from Sachs' postulate that plant morphogenesus is regulated by specific organ-forming chemicals. Indeed, there is now much evidence on the effects of specific chemicals (or groups of chemicals). However, the impression should not remain that morphogenesis is regulated solely by such chemicals (that is, by hormones or vitamins). Temperature, light, water, mineral nutrients, foods, and other factors are also important in the development of plants and at times one or more of these factors may have a decisive influence on growth, acting either directly or through intermediate effects on plant hormones.


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## eza82 (Jan 4, 2009)

bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh to much information............................... its going to take some time to soak up my own thread...lol


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## MrJDGaF (Jan 5, 2009)

If it means more and stronger weed it's gotta be worth a read


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

*HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP*

*recruiting people who want to conduct small test with various different hormones at different times !!!????*

*BUYING ALL INGREDIANT IN PURE FORM..... 1grm at a time ... . Come in gel cap form.... CHEAP ( $1 - $30 ) Multiple crops...*
*DONT HAVE SUPPLIERS YET SO HELP THERE TOO.*
*have seen around though.. should not be hard*


*THE EXPERIMENT....................*

Measure the ripening of unripe BUD induced by the plant hormone ethylene, with increased light 19/5 example 
Determine if plant size could be increased by manipulating / regulating 6-ben,IAA,GA3 hormone,ETC 
What is the role of hormones in synchronizing ripening? 
The Effect of same Hormones on different strains 
The effect of different concentrations of the plant growth substance IAA and gibberellic acid on the growth of roots and shoots 
Compare rate of plant growth using two different growth hormones 
The effect of estrogen on the growth of veg 
The effect of Rootone hormone on plant growth - which i thinks been cover by PANHEAD &fddblk : Root gel and some experiments

Effect of Different Concentrations of IAA on Root Initiation 
Simple experiments to explain the role of phytohormones in plants 
. 
The effects of plant regulators (auxins and cytokinins) on different strains
Abscisic acid for seed germination and enhancement of its catabolism by gibberellin 

ETC ETC ETC

Basiclly FUCK with the major groups..........auxins, gibberellins, ethylene, cytokinins, and abscisic acid.


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

*Growth and Plant Hormones - Plant Biology*
*http://www.biology-online.org/11/10_growth_and_plant_hormones.htm*



*Growth*

All living organisms begin in the same form: as a single cell. That cell will divide and the resulting cells will continue dividing and differentiate into cells with various roles to carry out within the organism. This is life and plants are no different. Plant growth can be determinate or indeterminate, meaning some plants will have a cycle of growth then a cessation of growth, breakdown of tissues and then death (think of a radish plant or a tomato plant) while others (think of a giant cedar tree) will grow and remain active for hundreds of years. A tomato plant is fairly predictable and is said to have determinate growth, while the cedar tree has indeterminate growing potential. Development refers to the growth and differentiation of cells into tissues, organs and organ systems. This again all begins with a single cell.

*Plant Growth Regulators and Enzymes*

Genetic information directs the synthesis and development of enzymes which are critical in all metabolic process within the plant. Most enzymes are proteins in some form or another, are produced in very minute quantities and are produced on site&#8212;meaning they are not transported from one part of the organism to another. Genetic information also regulates the production of hormones, which will be addressed shortly. The major difference is that hormones are transported from one part of the plant to another as needed. Vitamins vital in the activation of enzymes and are produced in the cytoplasm and membranes of plant cells. Animals and humans utilize plants in order to provide some vitamin resources. In general, hormone and vitamin effects are similar and are difficult to distinguish in plants, and both are referred to in general as plant growth regulators. 

*Groups of Hormones*

Plant hormones are chemical messengers that affect a plant's ability to respond to its environment. Hormones are organic compounds that are effective at very low concentration; they are usually synthesized in one part of the plant and are transported to another location. They interact with specific target tissues to cause physiological responses, such as growth or fruit ripening. Each response is often the result of two or more hormones acting together. 
Because hormones stimulate or inhibit plant growth, many botanists also refer to them as plant growth regulators. Many hormones can be synthesized in the laboratory, increasing the quantity of hormones available for commercial applications. Botanists recognize five major groups of hormones: auxins, gibberellins, ethylene, cytokinins, and abscisic acid. 

*Other Growth Regulators*

Many growth regulators are widely used on ornamental plants. These substances do not fit into any of the five classes of hormones. For example, utility companies all over the country often apply growth retardants, chemicals that prevent plant growth, to trees in order to prevent them from interfering with overhead utility lines. If is less expensive to apply these chemicals than to prune the trees, not to mention safer for the utility workers. Also, azalea growers sometimes apply a chemical to the terminal buds rather than hand-pruning them. Scientists are still searching for a hormone to slow the growth of lawn grass so that it doesn't have to be mowed so often.

*Plant movements*

Plants appear immobile because they are usually rooted in one place. However, time lapse photography reveals that parts of plants frequently move. Most plants move too slowly for the passerby to notice. Plants move in response to several environmental stimuli such as: light, gravity and mechanical disturbances. These movements fall into two groups: tropisms and nastic movements. 

*Tropisms*

A tropism is a plant movement that is determined by the direction of an environmental stimulus. Movement toward an environmental stimulus is called a positive tropism, and movement away from a stimulus is called a negative tropism. Each kind of tropism is named for its stimulus. For example, a plant movement in response to light coming from one particular direction is called a phototropism. The shoot tips of a plant that grow toward the light source are positively phototropic. 
Phototropism
Phototropism, as mentioned, is illustrated by the movement of sprouts in relation to light source direction. Light causes the hormone auxin to move tot he shaded side of the shoot. The auxin causes the cells on the shaded side to elongate more than the cells on the illuminated side. As a result, the shoot bends toward the light and exhibits positive phototropism. In some plant stems, phototropism is not caused by auxin presence or movement. In these instances, light causes the production of a growth inhibitor on the illuminated side of the shoot. Negative phototropism is sometimes seen in vines that climb on flat walls where coiling tendrils have nothing to coil around. These vines have stem tips that grow away from the light, or better put, toward the wall. This brings adventitious roots or adhesive discs in contact with the wall on which they can cling and climb. 
Solar tracking is the motion of leaves or flowers as the follow the suns' movement across the sky. By continuously facing toward a light source, moving or not, the plant maximizes the light available for photosynthesis.

*Thigmotropism*

Thigmotropism is a plant growth response to touching a solid object. Tendrils and stems of vines, such as morning glories, coil when they touch an object. Thigmotropism allows some vines to climb other plants or objects, thus increasing its chance of intercepting light for photosynthesis. It is thought that an auxin and ethylene are involved in this response. 

*Gravitropism*

Gravitropism is a plant growth response to gravity. A root usually grows downward and a stem usually grows upward; that is, roots are positively gravitropic and stems are negatively gravitropic. Like phototropism, gravitropism appears to be regulated by auxins. One hypothesis proposes that when a seedling is placed horizontally, auxins accumulate along the lower sides of the root and the stem. This concentration of auxins stimulates cell elongation along the lower side of the stem, and the stem grows upward. A similar concentration of auxins inhibits cell elongation in the lower side of the root, and thus the root grows downward. 

*Chemotropism*

Chemotropism is a plant growth response to a chemical. After a flower is pollinated, a pollen tube grows down through the stigma and style and enters the ovule through the micropyle. The growth of the pollen tube in response to chemicals produced by the ovule is an excellent example of chemotropism. 

*Nastic Movements*

Plant movements that occur in response to environmental stimuli, but that are independent of the direction of the stimuli are called nastic movements. These movements are regulated by changes in water pressure in certain plant cells.


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

MAKEING GIRLS!!!!!

CARBOHYDRATE-NITROGEN RATIOS WITH RESPECT TO THE SEXUAL EXPRESSION OF HEMP
- use of ethlyene
- real intresting read...


http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pagerender.fcgi?artid=439101&pageindex=1


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

QUOTE JESTER:i am a mad scientist too i spose so yeah ill help with what i can. and have some free time to figure out somethig constructive to contribute..

but for now we only used to play with root growth..
and bud size we. didnt really play with the veg growth too much for reasons stated who wants to grow a plant thats gonna get spindly nd crush under its own weight when we start boostin it in bud ya know..

we done few different things but yeah mainly tried to stay along those lines. that being said there are ways to do thuis throughout the whole plant growth but we never got that to bee 100 percent perfect everytime....

could go on for hours but ill leave it at that fpr this one.
i need a billy lol
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MANIPULATE it all... lets breed FREAKS! so.......Veg growth is stage of life..The auxin is a hormone with controls cell growth and spliting, so in saying that feed the right Hormone in Veg the plant may strech alittle but we can syth` it so it will produce more nodes and stem girth (which would be strenght)...... by adding more *Abscisic Acid *or Auxin based hormone should stop lenghting altogether.


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

We could only try ! BREED MONSTER OUTDOORIES.......


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

QUOTE JESTER: the doses vary depends on what your doing and you want them too do.. 

mainly we just used them to promote root growth and then to aid in flowering (generally bud size and a little of growth...)

the results were good (but i disagree with the whole you cant fuck it up.... depends what you call a fuck up...

like i said i found for me i used some a bit after the plant was established to promote root growth ( you could probably strait away but i treated the as etra nutes on account i liked to use nuts to aid with growth and hormones for flower and root..

the others were all the same as me really we varied our experiments only one of us ended up sticking with the hormones for the whole growth after he figured it out.... but his results werent much different sometimes worse sorry to say

so will you still be using nutes?????

i only used the hormones that helped with what i wanted my plant to do 

if i wanted it to help bud id just start using it a week before to a week after id want too

from memory a good guide would be.

roots.... id advise as soon as you think your plant can take it...

growth once the plants established 

i say this because rapidly growing it too fast has bad results we found.. who wants to grow a tall pindly plant then ake it grow big buds itll snap.. like i said treat them as nutes that you know exactly what they are gonna mqake your plants do.

give me some time to brush up and what not and yeah im in.... its been a while as i said ive been in troable a fair few times in the last years. had to settle down.
and like i said there was a few of us ill find out and do a little something up for you when i get the time..


sorry about this i had written a way more detailed rply tha this one but fucked it up..

ill see wht i can do for ya tho. ill just go catch up wid ma mates and brush up n then do a write up 4 ya if i can

its not as complicated as it sounds so dont worry. but like i said use them when you think theyle help with what theyre supposed to. just lookafter the plant dont let it get spindly

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes, I will still use all NUTES indoors ( dutch grow gold, pk13, superthrive, aussie majic juice)
Though the juice and Superthrive will go due to not knowing whats in them.....
But may dilute some dramaticlly outdoors..... EC say of 1.0 
Outdoors.... just have organic fertz though. Fish and seaweed emulsions etc

And it timing I am most worried about fucking up!


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## oscarmiya (Jan 5, 2009)

Lol, Wow.   - I must admit, I havn't read but a few paragraphs before I realized I will need more than 45 min to and hour reading this and comprehending it all. Seems interesting though and will start reading more tomorrow, subscribed. Time to watch some Conan.


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

oscarmiya said:


> Lol, Wow.   - I must admit, I havn't read but a few paragraphs before I realized I will need more than 45 min to and hour reading this and comprehending it all. Seems interesting though and will start reading more tomorrow, subscribed. Time to watch some Conan.


LOL....cant miss conan! And it will probably take 1hr or so to get through, and to get really involved and try to apply, its now become a full time study subject for me....LOL


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

*WILLOW WATER form of indolebutyric acid (IBA) " growing tips of willows contain high concentrations of IBA.........."*

In the fifth century B.C., the Greek physician, Hippocrates, wrote that chewing bark of a willow tree could relieve pain and fever. (No wonder squirrels don&#8217;t get headaches.) In 1829, the effective ingredient, salicin, was successfully isolated from willow bark. Toward the end of the 19th century, The Bayer Company in Germany trademarked a stable form of *acetylsalicylic acid, calling it &#8220;aspirin,&#8221;* the &#8220;a&#8221; from acetyl, &#8220;spir&#8221; from Spiraea (the salicin they used came from meadowsweet, Spiraea ulmaria, subsequently renamed Filpendula ulmaria), and &#8220;in,&#8221; a common ending in drug nomenclature. 
In the 20th century, over one trillion aspirin, the first medicine created by techniques of modern chemistry, were consumed globally to regulate blood vessel elasticity, reduce fevers and aches, prevent cardiovascular ailments, affect blood clotting, or ease inflammation.
Native Americans and early settlers used willow bark for toothaches and applied it to the source of other pains. But they also recognized that you can actually grow a whole new tree by taking a stem and sticking it in moist soil. The hormones in willows cause rapid rooting, and they discovered these same hormones could induce rooting in other plants, too.




Willow waterTo harness this power, they made a tonic called &#8220;*willow water*&#8221; by collecting willow twigs, trimming the leaves, immersing the stems in a pail of water, and pouring the water on newly planted trees, shrubs, and bedding plants. Commercial rooting preparations contain a synthetic form of *indolebutyric acid (IBA)* and growing tips of willows contain high concentrations of IBA, depending on the quantity used and length of time you soak them. Any willow (Salix) tree or shrub species will work.


Another discovery: In the January, 2004 issue of The Avant Gardener, a monthly newsletter to which you can subscribe for $24/year at Horticultural Data Processors, Box 489, New York, N.Y. 10028, editor Thomas Powell notes that gardeners reported all sorts of plants growing remarkably better when given regular doses of tiny amounts of aspirin (1 part to 10,000 parts water; larger doses actually proved toxic),&#8221; and that The Agricultural Research Service is investigating the reasons behind aspirin&#8217;s beneficial effects.
Plants make salicylic acid to trigger natural defenses against bacteria, fungi, and viruses. Aspirin thus is an activator of &#8216;*Systemic Acquired Resistance*&#8217; (SAR). However, plants often don&#8217;t produce the acid quickly enough to prevent injury when attacked by a microbe. Spraying aspirin on the plants speeds up the SAR response. Tests have shown this works on many crops, producing better plants using less pesticide. &#8220;It also makes it possible to successfully grow many fine heirloom varieties which were discarded because they lacked disease resistance.&#8221; Powell says.
Scientists first encountered the SAR phenomenon in the 1930s. After encountering a pathogen, plants use salicylic acid as a key regulator of SAR and expression of defense genes. &#8220;Only recently have companies begun marketing salicylic acid and similar compounds as a way to activate SAR in crops&#8212;tomato, spinach, lettuce, and tobacco among them,&#8221; according to Powell.
&#8220;ARS scientists are studying plants&#8217; defenses, such as antimicrobial materials like the protein chitinase which degrades the cell walls of fungi, and nuclease enzymes which break up the ribonucleic acid of viruses. They&#8217;re also testing aspirin and other SAR activators which could be effective against non-microbial pests such as aphids and root-knot nematodes,&#8221; Powell says. &#8220;This may be the most important research of the century. Stimulating SAR defenses with aspirin or other activator compounds could result in increased food production and the elimination of synthetic pesticides.&#8221;
He recommends we experiment by spraying some plants with a 1:10,000 solution (3 aspirins dissolved in 4 gallons of water), leaving other plants unsprayed. Tests have shown that the SAR activation lasts for weeks to months. (Sort of homeopathic heart attack prevention for your plants.) 


*Make your own willow water:*
by gathering about two cups of pencil-thin willow branches cut to 1-3 inch lengths. Steep twigs in a half-gallon of boiling water overnight. Refrigerated liquid kept in a jar with a tight-fitting lid will remain effective up to two months. (Label jar so you won&#8217;t confuse it with your homemade moonshine.) Overnight, soak cuttings you wish to root. Or water soil into which you have planted your cuttings with the willow water. Two applications should be sufficient. Some cuttings root directly in a jar of willow water. Make a fresh batch for each use. You can also use lukewarm water and let twigs soak for 24-48 hours.
_Ilene Sternberg is a freelance writer and amateur gardener with a certificate of merit in ornamental plants from Longwood Gardens, Pennsylvania and a former garden guide at Winterthur in Delaware. _


http://www.bluestem.ca/willow-article1.htm


THIS WOULD BE CHEAPER THAN PUTTING ROOTING POWDER IN WATER ALL TIME..


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## holmes (Jan 5, 2009)

damn you man, now i have to think about hormones!!
fuck.
good job by the way


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

LOL
Ow yer by the way we could probably sell a formulated hormone schedual that works. Or manufacture or own SUPERTHRIVE type thing..... But This is not easy and will probably take yrs to perfect......LOL
Hey it possible...... just not likely ! But what we may do is help ourselves create FREAKS of the bud world......


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## spiked1 (Jan 5, 2009)

I recently bought a product called *Flower Seed Soak*,
It consists of *Ethylene acid, Alginic acid and Vitamins*.
It claims to *Stimulate the seed to encourage a tendancy for the plant to become female*.
Directions: Wrap seeds tightly in WHITE tissue paper and fold over 3 or 4 times, wet with *Seed Soak*
and place in a plastic zip lock bag for no less than 24 hours and no more than 30 hours.
Well I tried this several times but only my freshest seeds remained viable after soaking,
they were a cross of Lowryder 2 and Durban Poison Autoflowering that I bred myself.
The final result?

3 females and 3 males, not so good, so since they are auto's I'm using I can keep experimenting
and I only need to wait 3 weeks for sexing.
I have another 12 soaked seeds popping today so I'm trying again, but this time I'm also using La Femme as well.
If I get 12 females I'll be a happy chappy but we'll see.


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

-LA FEMME active: NAA (aussie product sold through hydro stores for hemp) , I already have this hormone with first application on today....... Obviosly for inducing female..... See how we go from 5 bag seed... sceptic that i am. Need some good base plants so will grow good out door & indoor mothers and go from there.... 

heres the quick profile....
1-Naphthaleneacetic Acid (NAA), 
The effects of 1-naphthaleneacetic acid (NAA) applied at various levels and times on yield, seed index, protein and oil content and fatty acid compositions of cotton plants seeds were studied. NAA increased the seed yield/plant and the seed, protein, and oil yields/ha compared to the control. A level of 20 ppm proved best for yield. Most NAA treatments significantly increased the seed index, but only slight increases in seed protein content were recorded.


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

spiked1 said:


> I recently bought a product called *Flower Seed Soak*,
> It consists of *Ethylene acid, Alginic acid and Vitamins*.
> It claims to *Stimulate the seed to encourage a tendancy for the plant to become female*.
> Directions: Wrap seeds tightly in WHITE tissue paper and fold over 3 or 4 times, wet with *Seed Soak*
> ...


 
*Ethylene acid, Alginic acid and Vitamins - The ethylene would be good for bud......the alginic is just a seaweed extract or most common found in Brown alge.... But has hormone like properties but you would put it as a vitiman..*


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## Jester88 (Jan 5, 2009)

umm like i said me n some mates found that its best to regulate to what you want them too do....

we used nutes too cos we found it best just to help with the plants growth not force it to grow..

i used to pay some attention too the roots and little to the veg growth... we found that this can be done wrong and the plants can get that spindly that they break under the weight of flower.. so i must say i disagree with theyou cant fuck it up comment (depends what you call a fuck up...

one of my mates found a good way for the whole cycle but to be honest mine werent too far off his ehy...

all we used to do is grow the plant as normal really but using hormones kinda like extra nutes that you kknow what the plants gonna do next 

like i said we still used nutes theres crtain things the plant needs especially to keep up with rapid growth... 

like i said i found it best when you grow the plant as normal with nutes, or whatever you use (i change all the time from grow to grow). 

but what you wanna do is giive it the hormones that help with what you want your plant to do. ie: grow, root, ect

what i used too do is basically go by the plant...

i didnt overdoo the roots ont the contrary i started all normal and then gave the plant rooting hormones as soon as i used to think it was ready for them, id generally let it get most of its size naturally then when it hit flower give it some hormones/steroids to encourage it to bulk up

this seemed to work the best sometimes id help it grow throughout the veg with hormones but not that often and just a little..

my advice is go by the plant. when you think its ready to handle what change your gonna throw at it do it. 

to enduce the buds i like to start giving it the budding stuff generally a wek before to wekish after budding but you can start whenever you want. you just gotta remember the plants gotta have time to start reacting to them as well...

but i found it good to just concentrate on rooting and bud size mainly. but like i said there is the odd occasion i like to make them taller but generally this can stretch them.. but yes there is a mix you can make up to solve this problem as many more. the question is what do you want them to do and is the plant ready or gonna need it...

theres no one way we found... but there is many different ways depending on what you decide you want to do with the plant... and all that...

a lot of factors come into this ive just given you the most basic knowledge so far as too people here dont seem t like big reads.

also sorry about the shitty sentancing and what not im in a hurry i hope yas get the point tho 

all youcan do is read up on them and hope ya get it right if your a beginner these are something that takes getting use too.... 

and yes noobs should definately learn to grow normally first. or theyll definately fail..
but like i said i found it best to concentrate on certain things. and ma other mates others, one of us hormones for the whole lot...
but to be honest not much difference really and sometimes ours looked better....

you dont want to give it a hormone deficiency.. look at people who grow really tall and lanky in a general there bones dont have time to develope properly resulting in a week bone structure to the point of somee cant fall or theyll break something. i got a mate thats really tall with this prob.
like the problem i said with the lanky plant gettin big buds and snapping.. ya know.. theres all kindsa things really, and uless you know what your doing and actually preffer growing the whole cycle with hormones do it. like i said i did sometimes. i just found it better to compliment the plant and not over do it...

sorry if this is a wast of time 
jester

but yeah weve experimented with this among other things


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

Thanx jester..... I look forward to your input!


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## Jester88 (Jan 5, 2009)

yeah dont worry im subscribed.

umm ill share what knowledge i have in this aspect as it occurs to me k 

but i like the post hopefully we can get some good stuff outa this 

wish i could do some more practical n show ya the results.. but ive been raided and warned a few times in the last year so my production is minimal sorry. 
most of ma input will be from my experience and what my mates are doing at the time when its there.

yes im the only one that got busted lol. i mean what kind dickheads gonna give friends up ya know.

so i should be able ta help in some way once i figur out a plan K 

jester88


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> yeah dont worry im subscribed.
> 
> umm ill share what knowledge i have in this aspect as it occurs to me k
> 
> ...


Welcome...... toke on this 
Excellent. I know you can help....
Ow yer can u find that formula your m8 uses for budding..... And some sorta report on useing it when... and what effects it had...... thanx champ


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## spiked1 (Jan 5, 2009)

My interest here is the possibility to make seeds female to save some time, experimentaly anyway,
as that is what some of these products claim to do.
I grew my first plant in 1973 just after I turned 15, but now that I live in a townhouse I'm limited to small closet grows,
so obviously I need to make the most of it, just wish I had more time and space eo experiment along these lines.
Neverless I'm subscribed out bof genuine interest. Keep it up guys, especially my fellow aussie brothers.


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## auto (Jan 5, 2009)

i have some GIBBERELLIC ACID (GA3) i will be trying on a outdoor stunted durban poison, i am yet to work out measurments for this stuff but it is 90 % pure.


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

10% what, do you know ??


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

*UNDER A LINK on MAIN PAGE: REF to GA3*

*Recipes FOR GA3 - folia spray with penotrator i would suggest or paste*
*( this is a studied recipe so I figure we should stick to it)*

PPM 50 - GA mg 125 Water 2400ml Purpose = early flower 
PPM 200 - GA mg 125 Water 600ml Purpose = early flower 
PPM 800 - GA mg 125 Water 160ml Purpose = blossom set
PPM 2000 - GA mg 125 Water 60ml Purpose = Seed germ
1%paste - GA mg 125 Water 5ml Purpose = growth promoter

Too much youll turn your girl into boys or hermi`s

Careful shit is nasty
Although GA is not listed as a "poison", the following precautions should be observed: Flush with water any GA that may get into the eye. Avoid skin contact if possible. If skin contact is suspected, wash with soap and water. *Do not re-enter an area after spraying until the GA spray is fully dry*. Avoid ingestion of GA. 
RESULT: 
Premature flowering. If a plant is sufficiently developed, premature flowering may be induced by direct application of GA to young plants. This action is not sustained and treatment may have to be repeated. Formation of male flowers is generally promoted by concentrations of 10 to 200 ppm., female flowers by concentrations of 200 to 300 ppm. Concentrations of more than 600 ppm markedly suppresses initiation of both male and female flowers. 

Increased growth. GA applied near the terminal bud of trees may increase the rate of growth by stimulating more or less constant growth during the season. In a Department of Agriculture experiment, the GA was applied as a 1% paste in a band around the terminal bud of trees. Treatment was repeated three times during the summer. Walnut tee growth was 8.5 ft. for treated trees, 1.5 ft. for untreated trees

http://www.crfg.org/tidbits/gibberellic.html

another : Fruit trees.....
A spray of GA3 (gibberellic acid) at a concentration of 15&#8211;30 ppm at full bloom significantly increased yields (by 50&#8211;400%). In young trees (4&#8211;5 years old), a narrow (2&#8211;3 mm) girdling at the time of sprouting, together with GA3, gave best results.


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## auto (Jan 5, 2009)

well this is what im using it for (1%paste - GA mg 125 Water 5ml Purpose = growth promoter)

but measurments ?

thats only a 1% paste at 125mgs, so i should use about 10 mgs ?


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

auto said:


> well this is what im using it for (1%paste - GA mg 125 Water 5ml Purpose = growth promoter)
> 
> but measurments ?
> 
> thats only a 1% paste at 125mgs, so i should use about 10 mgs ?


Thats the formula to create 1%paste = 125mg of ga3 powder + 5ml water


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

So i guess if you wanna scale it down........ youve got some maths/ and I dont think it would viable - making a paste is what it is..... PPM is easier to fuck with.


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## auto (Jan 5, 2009)

yeah fuk with my head, haha


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

Your going to need MICRO digi scales - Dealer scales - good one


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## auto (Jan 5, 2009)

so in a litre of water how much do i need ?


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

You wouldnt if you were doing paste... which now I think about it probably more controlled anyway..... Just follow formula, as stated 125mg of powder and 5ml water... mix it and smear a small ring around the base of your plant after making 1 or 2 small scratchs vertically to break surface.


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## eza82 (Jan 5, 2009)

*6-BENZYLAMINOPURINE & *BRASSINOLIDE* is something you also you should look at with ga3.....*
*I think I will also be doing the same includeding NAA ( female hormone NO REAL CONCLUSIVE REPORTS) and IBA(rooting/growth through willow water or asprin) in the mix.*


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## Jester88 (Jan 5, 2009)

umm yas do realise theres lots of diffrent ways you can even spray some on the leaves and theyll work....

but just for the record ours were almost always concentrated liquid solutions (sometimes gels and powders and what not but namely liquid hormone solutions)
that we had to water down (dont use tap water u probly could but y would you really).. 

ummm and apart frm some of the other places we got them from some hydro shops will stock various ones... you really only need to focus on a few points as i said..

we found these to be best (sorry but if you know what your liquid is its easy enough to apply and measure....

also be carefull which hydro shops you go to.... ya dont wanna go in there leavin traces back to you from a snitchy owner....


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## eza82 (Jan 6, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> also be carefull which hydro shops you go to.... ya dont wanna go in there leavin traces back to you from a snitchy owner....


All good Mine grows wicked bud, he likes to show off........
Read a heap of studies on Liquids vs Powders.... Powders or crystles are most common in PURE form, ive found.
Ga3 1% Paste can only be made from powder. (for a stem application)


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## Jester88 (Jan 6, 2009)

same with the shop we sometimes frquent.... but its still good advice... before he owned the hydro shop it was a no go zone. had to go to oe even further away....

also i vaguely remember making paste out of some of the hormones and using them on the stems (this was ma mates not me i just helped . like i said i just got hormones to compliment the plant after doin my studies i fountthat this is what i like to do... not too often with paste tho.... like i said mainly liquids and gels for us tho when possible...
we done this all a while ago tho. thats y i appologise i cant remember or say more than i am atm.

im not the guy who wants to fuck other peoples grows up... i do however like to help and learn new things..

and dont worry i will start brushing up.... gotta read yourthread again but the whole thing and not skim it cos i recogise parts. id say your pretty close to the right track but (like i said you can fuck up the plants with hormones it just depends what you call a fuck up)


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## SenseiGT (Jan 6, 2009)

great thread and great research +++ , i'll be sticking around , this stuff is feeding my knowledge.


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## eza82 (Jan 6, 2009)

SenseiGT said:


> great thread and great research +++ , i'll be sticking around , this stuff is feeding my knowledge.


Welcome.... thanx...... maybey get involved with a few experiments??


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## eza82 (Jan 6, 2009)

*A Sketch of an 8 Part Plant Hormone Theory*

BEST READ I HAVE HAD YET !


http://www.planthormones.info/


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## eza82 (Jan 6, 2009)

*New Group Of Plant Hormones Discovered*

ScienceDaily (Aug. 13, 2008 &#8212; Scientists from the Wageningen University Laboratory of Plant Physiology and an international team of scientists have discovered a new group of plant hormones, *the so-called strigolactones*. This group of chemicals is known to be involved in the interaction between plants and their environment.
The scientists have now proven that strigolactones, as hormones, are also crucial for the branching of plants. The discovery will soon be published in Nature and is of great importance for innovations in agriculture. Examples include the development of cut flowers or tomato plants with more or fewer branches. These crops are of major economic and social importance worldwide.
The growth and development of plants is largely controlled by plant hormones. Plants produce these chemicals themselves, thus controlling the growth and development of roots and stems, for example. A number of plant hormones, such as auxins, giberellins and cytokinins, were discovered by scientists decades ago. Now a new group of hormones has been found: The so-called strigolactones.
Previous research by institutes including Wageningen UR has shown that strigolactones plays a major part in the interaction between plants and their environment. As plants cannot move, they commonly use their own chemicals to control the environment as best as they can.
Strigolactones are of major importance to the interaction between plants and symbiotic fungi, for example. These fungi live in a symbiotic relationship with plants, lthat is mutually beneficial. They transport minerals from the soil to the plant, while the plant gives the fungi sugars &#8216;in return&#8217;.
Unfortunately, the strigolactones have also been &#8220;hijacked&#8221; by harmful organisms: They help seeds of parasitic plants to germinate when plant roots are in the vicinity. The seedlings of the parasite attach to the root of the plant and use the plant&#8217;s nutrients for their own growth and reproduction. Unlike the symbiotic fungi, however, they do not give anything in return. On the contrary, the parasitism often causes the host plant to die, eventually.
The international research team consisting of French, Australian and Dutch scientists, coordinated in France, found mutants of pea that were branching without restraint. It turned out that these pea plants were not capable of producing strigolactones. When the plants were administered strigolactones, the unrestrained branching stopped. The same effect occurred in an entirely different plant, thale cress. The mutant plants also caused a significant lower germination of the parasitic plant seeds and induced less interaction with symbiotic fungi.
The scientists also showed that a specific &#8216;receptor reaction&#8217; for the strigolactones occurs in plants, a phenomenon that is characteristic for plant hormones. Although some previously discovered plants with unrestrained branching turned out to be producing strigolactones themselves, their receptor connection was disturbed: Strigolactones administered from the outside could not stop the uncontrolled branching.
It has also been shown that the plants are capable of transporting strigolactones internally and that the chemicals work at very low concentrations, two other typical characteristics of plant hormones.
It is expected that this new knowledge will be applied in agriculture and horticulture, for example in breeding and the development of branching regulators.
Cut flower varieties and potted plants with either more or less branching may have special ornamental value, while crops with more or less branching may be beneficial in cultivation. Tomato plants in which less branching occurs can benefit the greenhouse horticulture, for instance.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080812100327.htm

Another good read

Genes Key To Hormone Production In Plants Identified
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080403131915.htm


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## eza82 (Jan 6, 2009)

Bong in hand ... I was thinking about the fact we could re-create the exsisiting shape and pre conceived growth patterns...... 
So in theory we could develop a dwarf SOG strain.....with NO branchs and bigger cola...... 
Has there been a "DESIGNED" SOG plant developed???
If not that is not a bad goal........

Which - comes to a `crazy` setup theory.... If that was the case, we can alter there size & shape . Then we could build smaller spaces ( ie: draw ) useing less light (in turn less heat) and still max our yeild per watt.






I dont know why but a old morge keeps coming up in my head.. corps tables = grow tables pull it out and we have a thick blanket of 8 inch buds.......LOL

Or you could turn it into a vine...... grape or rose like canopy. Over a driveway or graden tressel.






With a combination of hormones you could alter ALL growth indicators to what the grower desires...... big, little, wide, tall, a vine, a tree, etc.............. with gene`s to a degree still a limiting factor.


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## HOHO (Jan 7, 2009)

i will help with some cheap small experiments


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## eza82 (Jan 7, 2009)

Welcome...... good to see some people donating time and plants to the cause!
Have you read much of the thread? What is your intrest ??


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## HOHO (Jan 7, 2009)

well unfortunatly i didn't make much sence of it but if you can pitch a deal to me and give me some good odds for sucsess.i would gladly give up a plant or two in the name of science i am curently using the hormone that panhead used on Moose.
i am on day 12 flower so if you can think one up i will run two experiments


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## eza82 (Jan 7, 2009)

IBA... you should maybey be looking at its sister... still a rooting hormone but geared for growth also...... IAA..... I think you would have more sucess..... one in same though just slight difference`s.......... Check out main post.... just look at ingredients of rooting hormone..... One will be IBA... the other IAA......
I have not done this yet... but read alot... and probably the path ill take... You should also consider NATURAL forms... like willow water


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## HOHO (Jan 7, 2009)

i'll do some of both if i can find iaa i'm sure i can give up 4 mabe 5 i'll see what i think when i'm sober....i just like to take what i see with my own eyes as proof i guess and from what i seen,Moose was named appropriately.


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## HOHO (Jan 7, 2009)

do you have a product in mind that has iaa in it that you could recommend and i'll track it down


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## HOHO (Jan 7, 2009)

dam dude that shits expensive! $60.00 for 50 gms plus shipping....not looking so attractive now


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## eza82 (Jan 7, 2009)

Root powders....... Some will have iba some will be iaa....... Head to local nursery suppliers..... I bought ROOT TONE from Yates that was IAA . But you could also look at more natural forms....... willow water and asprin......


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## eza82 (Jan 7, 2009)

HOHO said:


> dam dude that shits expensive! $60.00 for 50 gms plus shipping....not looking so attractive now


You will only need - 1or 2 grms at most....... 50grms you could open a shop!


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## eza82 (Jan 8, 2009)

MY 5 HORMONE PLAN ........... 
Very small concentrations of these substances produce major growth changes. Concentrations of these substances usually are measured in parts per million (ppm) and in some cases parts per billion (ppb). So im still HIGHLY UNSURE of quanties and timeing - it will be trial and error.... giving about 4 plants a month to the cause.......

So Hormones are produced naturally by plants, while plant growth regulators are applied to plants by humans. 
Some of the growth regulators i may be useing are synthetic compounds (e.g., IBA and Cycocel) that mimic naturally occurring plant hormones, or they may be natural hormones that were extracted from plant tissue (e.g., IAA). 
I will use *:*
1. Forms of *Auxin,* it is the active ingredient in most rooting compounds in which cuttings are dipped during vegetative propagation *IAA, IBA*. The forms i will be useing: YATES Cutting powder (*IAA*) and or willow water... During all times of growth a germination. (NOT BUD) in minute quantities

2. *Gibberellins (ga3)* to break seed dormancy, and speed germination. Veg tests also...

3. *NAA* - for fem attributes in seed germ
And on cuttings.....
for application I will probably follow this study
http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=c474511186t31155&size=largest

4. *BRASSINOLIDE*
6wks veg for It will increase a plants resistance to stress and will increase production of root mass.

*5. 6-BENZYLAMINOPURINE*
 6-8wk veg & 4th week of flowring for bud growth

+ ALL ordinary NUTES.

WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK......


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## HOHO (Jan 8, 2009)

ok i took pics of all the girls and named em  the first pic is the five that i gave IBA in water and then all of them to together for comparison.

should now more in a week


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## eza82 (Jan 8, 2009)

LOL............... they look really good..... I will post my mums for ya........ I will be taking clones for experiment and base line plants next week. AND have 6 seed ready... So Seed soaks will begin this week, and true experiments will follow. 
Ga3 is on its way to do seed soak.... Have NAA for seed soak also... will also place a small amount of BRASSINOLIDE and IAA, IBA in the first 6 weeks of life. 
The last 6-8wks will be hooking into the 6-ben..

.... we should start seeing solid changes within the next 4 weeks.


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## eza82 (Jan 8, 2009)

the MOTHERS







DONT GET DRUNK ... (day after christmas ) And try mixing nutes feeding your outdoor plants... They will get nute burn....... But recovering fine...the big bitch is about 6 ft. (fence 7ft )





Two at back are clones from a WICKED family strain.... we call Bliss (purple`ish) and two at front are just good bagseed......
Look alittle droppy because there missed watering` night was last night.... So only got water 15mins prior..... from really droopy!

You can see the two bagseed..... one on left (call it a#) Seed WAS NOT treated . It is about 10cm shorter. Stems are dramaticlly different..... One on right (b#) was seed germinated with a IAA solution watered down, has a girth of a TEXTER ` or big pencil and perfect looking plant almost perfectly cemetrical ? The a# is 1/2 the size and shows signs of deformation. *Not conclusive.... will test the another 3 seeds with this method.*

Yes... those chillis outdoors are also going to be in the program.... building green house at mo.... will update with photo when done..


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## HOHO (Jan 8, 2009)

i was thinking,if i have 5 healthy plants in the morning i would like to try some more cheap ones like yates cutting powder or something else,any suggestions?


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## HOHO (Jan 8, 2009)

i wish i could grow outdoors
nice plants! how many u experimenting on


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## eza82 (Jan 8, 2009)

NONE outdoors at mo.... They are to be proud mothers...... there kids ill play the hand of god on..... They did get a hit with NAA but that is for FEM induceing. Had 5 and 2 turned..... so its more of a prevenative.

What do you think of My 5 Hormone plan ?? This is where im starting... then as I have a sucsess I will find something new... But to perfect or understand these first 5-6 is my goal at moment...... Then I would like to fuck with growth, in that I want a SOG solution............ Hormones as mentioned before that will basicly stop branchs growing and keep hieght uniform.

5 hormone plan...
1. Forms of *Auxin,* it is the active ingredient in most rooting compounds in which cuttings are dipped during vegetative propagation *IAA, IBA*. The forms i will be useing: YATES Cutting powder (*IAA*) and or willow water... During times of growth a germination. (NOT BUD) in minute quantities

2. *Gibberellins (ga3)* to break seed dormancy, and speed germination. Veg tests also...

3. *NAA* - for fem attributes in seed germ and mid bud.
And on cuttings.....
for application I will probably follow this study
http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-p...5&size=largest

4. *BRASSINOLIDE*
6wks veg for It will increase a plants resistance to stress and will increase production of root mass.

*5. 6-BENZYLAMINOPURINE*
6-8wk veg & 4th week of flowring for bud growth

All will be in varying ranges from PPM to PPB (billion) to each plant (test subject) at different times. Within reason...as in I will follow other testing methods that have had good result in the AGRI industry

+ ALL ordinary NUTES.


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## HOHO (Jan 8, 2009)

and you know how to find all this stuff?


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## HOHO (Jan 8, 2009)

i never have tried a real garden with vegies but i do like them and could prolly get in to it easy,glad too see the chilies are in this to


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## eza82 (Jan 8, 2009)

Agriculture industry...... they use all of these in mass on most veggy crops.
So im saying yes but i have not picked which suppliers yet......


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## eza82 (Jan 8, 2009)

Here a couple of sites that sell all of them....
http://www.super-grow.biz/Products.jsp

http://www.mpbio.com/product_info.php?products_id=100912

http://www.chemnet.com/hot-product/6-Benzylaminopurine.html


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## eza82 (Jan 8, 2009)

POST IN PM MSGS by Genfranco?: Hey so ive been reading about this guy that used "take root" to enhance his buds. 

I want something to add after supercropping to boost them into growth quicker.... What ya think?

Active ingredient is .1% indole- 3 butric acid.. 99.9% Other.... 

So you would think that active ingredient is the key... but at such low dose?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read above me and HOHO are on it at mo! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## HOHO (Jan 8, 2009)

i'm confused are you talking about panhead, cuz thats how i got your link i'm just using both threads would you like to just use one?


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## eza82 (Jan 8, 2009)

SORY champ cut and pasted out of MSg folder......... Someone coming to join the fun !
Post on which ever.... they are sorta tied.... for experiments journels post here...


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## eza82 (Jan 8, 2009)

Biologists close in on the hormone '*florigen*,' the signal that causes plants to flower....... induced flowering..........???????????...... 

http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicle/04/10.21.04/florigen.html


.


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## Jester88 (Jan 9, 2009)

here bro

but dont thank me for the contribution this is fdd2blks experiment
i found it on rollitup..

when this was about 2 inches tall i added soil and happened to be cutting clones the same night. i had cloning gel on my finger and decided to rub it all over this seedling to see what would happen. this was about 10 days ago. look at it........   


this was yesterday........ 

the stalk was straight before i applied the gel. i only applied it at the bottom 1/4 inch. it seems to have travel up thru the main stalk.

wow, look what i started. 



my leaves are getting spots on them now. the lower stalk is getting "knotty". the main stalk is still curly. i mist the lower stalk once a night when the gel dries and turns white. this plant is on the same schedule as all the others and none of the others are getting these spotty leaves. and it's growth appears to be stunted. it's the one in the middle.


    


this is the original one that the stalk swelled up on. it is shorter than the others but the stalk is much thicker and it is hard like wood.

  

__________________
*i'm the guy i've always wanted to be

*this is the clone that i put gel on after trimming a few lower side branches. it's smaller and it's leaves are all spotty.......

   




this is the seedling i put gel on the bottom of the stalk when it was a few nodes high. it too is shorter but the leaves look fine.......


 


plant next to it. same strain started at the same time.........








 panhead





Mr.Ganja
*Mr. Ganja*
Join Date: Jan 2008​ Location: I may be old but im slow, in michigan.​ Posts: 3,740​ *Gallery: *​ *












































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permalink
Wow,i saw results in bud growth quickly,i only visit my garden every 2 days because of the long drive to get there so its usually pretty easy for me to notice change, this time i was dumbfounded as soon as i walked in,the new bud growth was allmost an explosive burst in new calyx's on the bud of one plant.

The pattern of growth on this plant has allways been even all around the bud & consistent from the top down to the bottom of the bud,now the bud is lumpy as hell with new growth.

Hmmmm...............this shits got me wondering big time,i saw some differences in my other girls that were not given root tone in their water but nowhere near as dramatic as this one,the seedlings i put root tone on have not shown anything dramatic yet but have shown faster leaf production than others.

This is the test plant with a dramatic growth spurt & the seedlings.







The growth rate of the plant that was fed root tone in its water has not slowed down one bit,the other plants from this strain which were put in 12/12 at the same time are ripening up fast with lots of red hairs, but this one just keeps fatening up,i checked my notes & these were put in 12/12 on 1-27-08, so their a little over 60 days in.

This is the pic posted earlier in the thread where i started to notice the explosive growth rate.







This pic was taken early this morning & shows the continued accelerated growth,the bud growth looks lumpy & abnormal when compared with the rest of the plants from the same strain that were not fed root tone.

The bud has gained allmost 3 inches in girth using a cloth tape & measuring around the outside of the circumference of the bud.

 pinksensa





Veteran Smoker
*Mr. Ganja*
Join Date: Jan 2008​ Posts: 1,821​ *Gallery: *​ *








*​ 
























 





*Update on my rooting gel experiment* 
permalink
Okay so tons of pics...begin w/the branch in water....I have trimmed back the yellow leaves and clipped the tips of the leaves left as I do when I clone...

The rest of the experiment was conducted on my main plant...youll see the branches that I scraped the surface then applied the gel....pretty dramatic fattening of the branches I did this to....as well as the pics of the main stalk...these places actually were where drops of the gel landed after application to other parts of plant and I just rubbed them in after...see all that bulging....it looks so freaky it tripps me out..and notice all the places where I had taken clones and their nubs remain I had rubbed those w/the gel as well and now they are all fat.....then the inside of where my plant got crushed during the bend of into the screen see how its bulging all around from the crush from the gel application....trippy ass shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. I showed the top of my screen just to show you that despite all the craziness on the stem and branches the plant looks great!!
Attached Thumbnails thegigglepimp





Stoner
*Stoner*
Join Date: Mar 2008​ Posts: 855​ *Gallery: *​ *




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permalink
This is the comparison in my experiment with photos: 

Here is the seedling before i used the root gel solution:






This is her sis, both planted at the same time, this on emerged a day or two before the above one, and it was never that dark colour or had that problem with the leaves (apart from that slit lol)






Now these are them compared 4 /5 days later, the one on the right is the one i used the solution with.






Here it is up close:






This is my first time growing so this may have happened anyway, but its a bit suprising that it has out grown the other one, when they were both on exactly the same water and lighting throughout. Whats your thoughts?

THERES WAY MORE ON THIS THREAD YOU SHOULD CHECK IT OUT AND SAY THANKS
Root gel and some experiments 
i just these pics would spark your interest more


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## auto (Feb 1, 2009)

alright got my ga3 but which application should i use ?

the stunted plant is about 2 foot with barely any nodes and very small leaves


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## doniawon (Feb 1, 2009)

subscribed...ill spray whoremoans


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## eza82 (Feb 2, 2009)

GDAY ALL IM BACK ........ BEEN OFF LINE... DUE TO MOVING HOUSE...... ALL IS DONE AND BACK ON LINE !!!
WAS A DIFFICULT MOVE FOR ALL............. BUT ALL PULLED THROUGH...........
WILL UP DATE ON EXPERMIMENTS

IN FLOWER NOW........ Got a shit load of chills too !


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## eza82 (Feb 2, 2009)

And it looks like i got to catch up up on a bit ! So bear with me !


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## eza82 (Feb 4, 2009)

AUTO, 
Are you going to folia spray GA3? As an experiment Ive seen i would keep it in the smallest concentrations I would say =15&#8211;30 ppm at VEG & FULL BLOOM
Dont use too much youll get boys....
Use *6-Benzylaminopurine*, *benzyl adenine* or *BAP* as well i think that it could be a winning combo..

IBA - has been intresting... mutatation for most..... getting almost a old knot in a tree.. look. at base of stem.. Will get photos when i remember which box my camera is. Still think it may be worth testing mid veg... as folia spray

NAA (LA FEMMA)- has blowen me away in regard to the way the flowering has come on.. Let me explain.... Applyed 2x dose just on change of light. Or when they had bud formation.....doses 1 week apart. 5ml per ltr with dutch master penatrator as folia spary.
Have 3 subjects outside 2 coped it..... and both after about 10days after application have white pistal hairs the size of my little finger. Base line plant has a few but going brown quick 1/4 the size.


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## smokaholic (Feb 5, 2009)

wow bruh that is some serious shit.


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## eza82 (Feb 5, 2009)

Yep, I guess I look at it as science sometimes, 
but one think I know ..... I have had the best OUTDOOR bud and plants when I do just about nothing.......... little seasol or charlie carp, good soil, good strain & magic......... bigger better.....
So my THEORY IS LESS IS BEST.... so im useing really small EC levels or PPM and for 1-2 doses... 
Plants will produce all hormones needed... im just trying to bolster it up a bit....... IT THE TIMEING.... when do the plants produce a particular type of hormone, SO im trying to dose it at the same time the plant will NATRUAL produce it.
So im finding that some will be INEFFECTIVE at times and later on during the grow could BE HIGHLY EFFICENT..... such as NAA, A outdoor smaller plants that got hit during veg have turned on me, looks like mag defficency yellowing etc, but the outdoor 7ft er has just lapped it up because she was just going to flower.


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## eza82 (Feb 5, 2009)

auto said:


> alright got my ga3 but which application should i use ?
> 
> The stunted plant is about 2 foot with barely any nodes and very small leaves


the biggest question is *when* are you going to use it ???? 

And to be HONESt you probably should have HEALTHY plants to experiment with..... if its small and in veg then it needs MINERALS not HORMONES follow your NPK.... you are probably short on phos or mag.... LAck of nitorgen is the most likely from the stunting... unless your fuckin with it too much.. repotting, cutting leaves off etc.....try flushing first... and water only for a couple of weeks then bring up you N (nitrogen) and have low K (pottassium) Phos is not real important at VEG stage and all will have Micro adds. And more JUST water.
So I would say hold off on your hormone venture till healthy.


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## eza82 (Feb 5, 2009)

*When each hormone is produced...... *
*Auxin* would be released when a root or shoot meristematic (young) cell finds that it contains more than enough shoot derived nutrients mainly sugar, and all other environmental conditions are favorable for growth. 
*Cytokinin* would be made when meristematic cells are bathed in more than enough nutrients of the sort normally provided by the root, mainly water and minerals and all other conditions are favorable for growth. 
*Gibberellin/Brassinostreroid* would be made when mature cells have less than enough shoot nutrients, i.e. sugar and Oxygen to survive especially if environmental conditions are poor. 
Finally *Ethylene* might be released when mature cells are receiving less than enough nutrients normally received from the roots, mainly minerals and water, to support life at all, thus senescence of the cell is warranted. Again this effect may be accentuated by poor environmental conditions.

*Abscisic Acid* might fulfill the role akin to adrenaline or cortisol in animals, signaling a need emergency action under most kinds of rapidly developing environmental stress, not just water shortages. 
Complimentarily, *Salicylic Acid* may be the hormone released when things are running normally and no special rapid response is needed from the plant. It might be the "feel good" hormone.

Quick summary on what they are:
*Auxin* is the active ingredient in most rooting compounds in which cuttings are dipped during vegetative propagation.
*Gibberellins* stimulate cell division and elongation, break seed dormancy, and speed germination. The seeds of some species are difficult to germinate; you can soak them in a GA solution to get them started.
*cytokinins* stimulate cell division and often are included in the sterile media used for growing plants from tissue culture. If a medium's mix of growth-regulating compounds is high in cytokinins and low in auxin, the tissue culture explant (small plant part) will produce numerous shoots. On the other hand, if the mix has a high ratio of auxin to cytokinin, the explant will produce more roots. Cytokinins also are used to delay aging and death (*senescence*).
*Ethylene* is unique in that it is found only in the gaseous form. It induces ripening, causes leaves to droop (*epinasty*) and drop (*abscission*), and promotes senescence. Plants often increase ethylene production in response to stress, and ethylene often is found in high concentrations within cells at the end of a plant's life. The increased ethylene in leaf tissue in the fall is part of the reason leaves fall off trees. Ethylene also is used to ripen fruit (e.g., green bananas).
*Abscisic acid* (ABA) is a general plant-growth inhibitor. It induces dormancy and prevents seeds from germinating; causes abscission of leaves, fruits, and flowers; and causes stomata to close. High concentrations of ABA in guard cells during periods of drought stress probably play a role in stomatal closure.


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## eza82 (Feb 5, 2009)

*PGR`s - PLANT GROWTH REGULATORS (man made)/ HORMONES (natural)*

*THIS IS WHAT WHERE WHEN........*

Plant growth regulators (PGRs) are chemicals that are designed to affect plant growth and/or development. They are applied for specific purposes to affect specific plant responses right? 
Although there is [email protected]#k load of scientific information on using PGRs in the greenhouse, it is not an exact science. Achieving the best results with PGRs is a combination of art and science - science tempered with a lot of trial and error and a good understanding of plant growth and development. 

*Selecting and Using Plant Growth Regulators on Floricultural Crops *
Authors: Original is by Joyce G. Latimer, Extension Specialist, Greenhouse Crops; Virginia Tech Publication Number 430-102, November 2001, i have summarized most of it. 
index:
Optimizing Results 
Read the Label
Plant Growth Regulators for Height Control
Plant Growth Regulators for Lateral Branching
Plant Growth Regulators for Flowering Application Guidelines
Treat All Recommendations as Starting Rates for Your Own Trials
Recordkeeping
Costs of PGRs
Conclusions and Rate Recommendations 
Recommended Resource 
Appendix. Helpful conversions


*Optimizing Results*

1. For best results, PGRs should be handled as production tools, like water and fertilizer. 
2. They should not be used as crutches for poor management of other cultural practices. 
3. PGRs should be an integrated part of your crop production cycle.
4. They are most effective when applied at the appropriate times to regulate plant growth or development. In other words, growth retardants cannot "shrink" an overgrown plant. They must be applied before the plant is overgrown to avoid plant stretch. 

THINGS YOU CAN ACHIEVE: 

1. Do you want to reduce the growth rate of the plant, improve its color and general condition (toughness)? If so, you probably want a growth retardant such as B-Nine, Cycocel, A-Rest, Bonzi, or Sumagic. 
2. Do you want to increase plant branching for enhanced cutting production, or for a more bushy potted plant or hanging basket? If so, you probably want to use a branching agent or "chemical pincher" such as Atrimmec, FlorelÆ Brand Pistill (Florel), or Off-Shoot-O. 
3. Do you want to enhance flower initiation or synchronize flowering? If so, you probably want to use Cycocel, Florel, NAA, GibGro, or ProGibb. 

Answering these questions will indicate which type of PGR you need to use to accomplish your goal. It also will determine the most appropriate timing of the application. Then you will need to select a specific PGR in that class and determine the appropriate dosage and the appropriate application method for the selected application. THESE are many Indsutry brands which I intend on useing at some point. As well as the pure forms mentioned in thread.

*Read the Label*

Plant growth regulators are classified as pesticides so use with care...


Is the chemical labeled for the crop you wish to treat? Most of the PGR labels have undergone recent revisions that apply to a broad range of similar crops not specifically listed on the label, with the user taking responsibility for determining appropriate rates. This provides label permission to use the compound on these crops without the manufacturer accepting the responsibility for the rate selection.
Look for information on the effectiveness and on the side effects (phytotoxicity) of the chemical on your specific crop. B-Nine is considered to be a safe, short-term growth retardant with few phytotoxicity problems. However, it has little effect on growth of petunias and may burn treated leaves of kalanchoe. Begonias are extremely sensitive to Bonzi and Sumagic, and the label warns you to avoid overspray or drift on these crops.
Notice any label warnings regarding the PGR's effect on plant flowering. Many branching enhancers delay flowering. Florel causes flower bud abscission prior to enhancing branching; therefore, it is not recommended within six to eight weeks of Croping.
Plant Growth Regulators for Height Control or SOG 
Most of the PGRs used in the greenhouse are used to regulate shoot growth of bedding plants, garden mums, and other containerized crops. These PGRs are referred to as "growth retardants." Typical growth retardants are B-Nine, Cycocel, A-Rest, Bonzi, and Sumagic . These PGRs reduce plant height by inhibiting the production of gibberellins, the primary plant hormones responsible for cell elongation. Therefore, their effects are primarily on stem, petiole and flower stalk tissues. Lesser effects are seen in reductions of leaf expansion, resulting in thicker leaves with darker green color. 

Other benefits of using these PGRs in plant production include improved plant appearance by maintaining plant size and shape in proportion with the pot. Plant growth retardants also increase the stress tolerance.
Remember, growth retardants do not reduce plant size. They reduce the plant's growth rate. You must apply the growth retardant prior to the "stretch." Look for recommendations on the PGR label for time of application. These recommendations will be given in terms of plant development or plant size as opposed to production time. For example, the Sumagic label specifies that pansies should have attained a minimum height of four inches prior to application. The Bonzi label says that bedding plant plugs should be treated at the one to two true leaf stage and bedding plants (after transplanting) at two inches of new growth or when the plants reach marketable size. 
Generally, growth retarding PGRs should be applied just prior to rapid shoot growth. This is usually one to two weeks after transplanting a plug, after the roots are established and as the plant resumes active growth; on pinched plants, it is after the new shoots are visible, just starting to elongate. This is where the art of plant growth regulation is most important. You must learn how your crop grows and when to intervene to obtain the desired results. Remember to note details of crop development in your records of PGR treatments. For example, due to the weather conditions, next year you may need to treat at seven days after transplanting instead of at the ten days after transplanting that you used this year. Gauge when rapid elongation will likely occur and treat to counter it. 
Many growers use multiple applications of growth retardants to better control plant growth. A single application at a high rate early in the plant production cycle may be excessive if growing conditions are not as good as expected. An early application at a lower rate provides more flexibility, but the tradeoff is in the additional labor involved with a second application if it becomes necessary. Some growers improve crop uniformity by using multiple applications of lower rates to affect small corrections in plant growth. 

Be careful to avoid very late applications, especially of Bonzi or Sumagic as they may delay flowering . 
*Plant Growth Regulators for Lateral Branching*

Another group of PGRs used in floricultural crops are those that enhance branching, including Florel, Atrimmec and Off-Shoot-O . These PGRs are frequently called "chemical pinchers" because they generally inhibit the growth of the terminal shoots or enhance the growth of lateral buds, thereby increasing the development of lateral branches. They can be used to replace mechanical pinching of many crops. Often this increased branching also will reduce the overall height of the plant. The ethylene released inside the plant by Florel also inhibits internode elongation, keeping treated plants more compact than untreated plants. Florel also affects flowering (see below). If you are looking for enhanced branching, you must have sufficient growth on the plant to allow for sites of lateral development. They cannot enhance lateral branching if there are no laterals on the plant. Again, read the label for details of when to apply for optimum response. 

You may need to consider combinations of PGRs. For example, if you apply Florel to enhance the branch development of 'Wave' petunias in a hanging basket, you will probably need to follow up with a treatment of a plant growth retardant like Bonzi to control the elongation of those new laterals. Always consider the side effects of treatments. As mentioned in Tables 1 and 2, some of these PGRs affect flowering which is critical to the successful production of floricultural crops. 
*Plant Growth Regulators for Flowering*

Plant growth regulators can be used to enhance flowering (GibGro) or to remove flowers (Florel). To improve flowering, GibGro, which contains the growth promoter gibberellic acid, can be used to substitute for all or part of the chilling requirement of some woody ornamentals typically forced in the greenhouse, including azalea. [A broad use label was submitted for EPA approval in 2001 for Pro-Gibb (Valent USA) which would include camellia, hydrangea, and a variety of other floricultural crops.] Special attention must be given to the stage of flower bud development for successful treatment. In addition to overcoming dormancy, these compounds can improve flowering and/or bloom size of camellia, geranium, cyclamen, spathiphyllum, statice, and calla lily (see product labels for specific uses). Again, timing is critical since late applications, or excessive rates, may cause excessive plant stretching resulting in weak, spindly stems. Cycocel used to control stem height of hibiscus and geranium also improves early flowering. 

Flower removal is especially desirable for stock plants maintained for cuttings of vegetatively propagated ornamentals, like geraniums, fuchsia, begonias, or lantana. Florel (ethephon) is the primary compound used for flower removal. Once ethephon is absorbed by the plant it is converted to gaseous ethylene, a natural plant hormone effective in many plant processes. Ethylene is the primary hormone responsible for flower senescence and fruit ripening. It is the "postharvest" hormone. With proper rates and timing, it will remove unwanted flowers from stock plants or from plugs or young bedding plants. 
Flower removal diverts more energy into vegetative growth, increasing the number of laterals available for cuttings on stock plants, and promoting increased branching of plugs and finished plants, which increases fullness in hanging baskets or other containers. Early flower removal also allows synchronization of flowering of a container for a more dramatic appearance or for flowering on a specific marketing date. Since initiation and development of flowers requires time, Florel should not be used on crops within six to eight weeks of marketing. 
*Application Guidelines*

*Spray Applications.* The pesticide label not only contains information on restrictions but also much information on using the product effectively. The label will identify the target tissue for that PGR - B-Nine is only effective as a foliar spray whereas Bonzi and Sumagic sprays must reach the stems or roots. When making spray applications, look at the physiological development of the plant to see that there is sufficient plant material at the correct stage of growth to make the treatment effective and to accomplish your goal. Generally, there should be sufficient foliage or stems to absorb the PGR. Uptake and effectiveness of a PGR also depend on selecting the application technique that will ensure proper coverage of the target tissue. B-Nine is not soil active and is fairly mobile in the plant. Therefore, a foliar spray application, wetting most of the foliage, will provide a fairly uniform reduction in growth of sensitive crops. 
However, the triazoles, Bonzi and Sumagic, are absorbed primarily by stem tissue and then translocated upwards in the plant. Therefore, consistent and complete coverage of the stems is necessary for uniform effects. In other words, if the stem of one lateral receives an inadequate amount of spray, it will grow faster than the others, resulting in a poorly shaped plant, most noticeable in potted crops like poinsettia or chrysanthemum. The triazoles also are very "soil active" which means they may be adsorbed to particles in the media and become available to the plant through root uptake. Therefore, drenching is a very effective application method for these chemicals in crops where it is economically feasible (see How to Apply Drenches below). 
The label will provide a recommended application volume for sprays or drenches, especially for chemicals that are soil active. All foliar applications of PGRs should be applied on an area basis, i.e., uniformly spray the area where the plants are located with the recommended volume of solution. Do NOT spray individual plants or spray to reach a subjective target like "spray to glistening." Since every applicator will have a slightly different definition of these goals, there will be no way of recommending appropriate rates or obtaining predictable results. For soil active PGRs, dosage equals the concentration of the solution multiplied by the volume applied in the treated area. Therefore, to improve predictability, the label-recommended spray application rates are generally set at 2 qt. finished spray per 100 sq.ft., a comfortable walking pace for applicators with hand-held sprayers. 
Since Bonzi and Sumagic are soil active, precautions should be taken to avoid over-application with sprays. Spray applications require more attention to detail, because overspray material lands or drips onto the medium. Remember that dosage equals concentration times volume. Figure 1 shows the effect of Sumagic application volume on growth of vinca (Catharanthus roseus) at four weeks after treatment. A 1 ppm spray solution of Sumagic was applied at the label recommended volume of 2 qt. per 100 sq. ft., at 3 qt. per 100 sq. ft., or at twice the label rate, 4 qt. per 100 sq. ft. This high volume application was comparable to the amount of spray you might apply "to runoff." These vinca plants were effectively treated with 0, 1, 1.5, or 2 ppm Sumagic (dose = concentration x volume). 
Recognizing that stem coverage is necessary for the triazoles, you may need to apply a higher than recommended volume to large or dense plants to obtain adequate coverage. In fact, the Bonzi label recommends 3 qt per 100 sq.ft. for "larger plants with a well developed canopy." Adjust the concentration you apply accordingly. This suggests the importance of record-keeping (see below). 
*Spray Equipment.* To assure proper spray volumes, your compressed air sprayer should be equipped with a pressure gauge and regulator and you should consistently use the same nozzle for all PGR applications. Your sprayer should be calibrated by determining the output of the chemical with the selected nozzle at the selected pressure within a specified time period. Using this information, you can apply a known amount of material to a known area. Spray droplet size also affects response with smaller droplet sizes providing better coverage, but only up to a point. Mist or fog type applicators do NOT provide adequate volume for coverage of plant stems and have not been effective when used with compounds like Bonzi and Sumagic. 
The way I tested was to capture your spray for a certin period.
*Applying Drenches.* Drenches have several advantages over sprays. Drenches generally have less effect on flower or bract size and tend to provide longer lasting growth regulation than sprays. Drenches are easier to apply uniformly than sprays because the drench volume is easily measured, and when applied to moist media, it is easy to obtain good distribution of the PGR in the media. Therefore, the resulting growth regulation is frequently more uniform. The label specifies the recommended volumes for drench applications to different size pots or types of media. Read the label. In general, 4 fl. oz. of drench solution is applied to a six-inch "azalea" pot, and that volume is adjusted up or down with pot size to obtain a volume where about 10% of the solution runs out the bottom of the pot when the media is moist. 
Remember that the amount of active ingredient applied to plants using soil-active PGRs is a product of the concentration (ppm) of the solution and the volume applied. Label recommendations for drench applications give solution rates (in ppm) and volume recommendations. In some cases, drench application recommendations are given in terms of milligrams of active ingredient (mg a.i.) per pot. For Bonzi, the label provides mixing directions for mg a.i. solutions for Bonzi, or, you can use the NC State University "PGR Calculator" (See Resources below) to obtain solution directions for drench recommendations using this format. 
Other methods of applying PGRs directly to the media have been developed and labeled. For example, Bonzi and A-Rest are labeled for chemigation or application through the irrigation system. These are generally limited to flood (sub-irrigation) or drip irrigation, not overhead sprinkler systems. Again, rates vary with the volumes used and method of application. Bonzi applied once by sub-irrigation requires 50% to 75% of the amount of Bonzi that is applied in a typical drench application. Read and exactly follow the label for chemigation applications. 
*Other Types of PGR Applications.* Three other methods of providing a drench type application of soil-active PGRs on a more economical scale are being used by growers. One is media surface application sprays. These are spray applications made to the surface of the media of filled flats or pots. The treatment is applied at normal to high spray volumes, but since it is applied to the media surface it is activated by irrigation and is available to the plant in the root zone. Both Bonzi and Sumagic are labeled for this method of application. Rates are lower than used for sprays, but higher than used for drench applications. 
A second method is called "*sprenches*" which is a high volume foliar spray that results in runoff into the media, providing a drench effect. Rates are lower than those recommended for sprays. 
A third technique is called "*watering in*" where the PGR, A-Rest and Bonzi are currently labeled, is injected into the irrigation water and applied in each irrigation at very low rates of active ingredient. 
All of these application methods use the relationship between rate and volume to provide the desired control and preferred application methods. Again, you must develop techniques that fit your production methods and your growth management preferences. 
*Beware of Bark.* For all media applications, be aware that soil-active PGRs tend to be tied up by bark particles in the media which makes it less available to the plants. Therefore, if your media mix is high in bark you will need to compensate for this unavailability by adjusting your application rates up for any type of drench or media applications. 
Growing Conditions. Look also for label recommendations on time of day or condition of the plant for optimum treatment response. Generally, a healthy, unstressed plant growing under low evaporative conditions, e.g., early in the morning or late in the afternoon, is most responsive to treatment. To maximize uptake, the chemical must remain in contact with the leaf long enough to be absorbed. This time varies for the different PGRs. Plants treated with B-Nine or Florel should not be overhead irrigated for at least 12 hours after treatment, but plants treated with Bonzi or Sumagic may be irrigated one hour after treatment. Spraying when the treatment will not dry quickly increases absorption of the active ingredients and increases the effectiveness of the treatment. Read the label for any warnings on how irrigation or environmental conditions will affect plant response to the PGR treatment. 
*Treat All Recommendations as Starting Rates for Your Own Trials*

The multitude of variations possible in application methods, cultivar and species grown, and growing conditions make it impossible to recommend specific rates for all operations. There are a couple of general rules for using rate recommendations from other sources: 


Southern growers use higher rates and more frequent applications than Northern growers. Rates for Virginia tend be closer to the Southern rates.
Outdoor applications usually require higher rates or more frequent applications than for plants grown inside the greenhouse.
*Recordkeeping*

Making notes on your application methods and the results of your PGR treatments will allow you to improve the consistency of your own application methods and establish rates and volumes appropriate to your production system. Note the concentration and the volume applied, the stage of development of the crop (number of leaves, approximate height, presence of flowers), and the environmental conditions under which the PGR was applied. It is always helpful to keep a few untreated plants for comparison, especially if you are new to using PGRs. 

*Costs of PGRs*

Also consider the cost of the various plant growth regulators in developing your production program. You will need to add your labor and equipment costs to calculate the PGR application costs in your operation. You also will want to consider the costs of multiple applications vs. single applications when determining which PGR to use in a given situation. 

*Conclusions and Rate Recommendations *

*Plant growth regulators are valuable production tools that can enhance product quality and marketability while reducing labor for pinching and/or pruning and plant maintenance. They must be used with proper attention to other cultural practices, especially proper fertility and irrigation management. Plant growth regulators cannot correct poor production practices. *

Plant growth regulator recommendations for a wide variety of floricultural crops are listed. These rates are label recommended rates and should be evaluated under your own growing conditions. For more information on rates for herbaceous perennials see VCE Publication 430-103, Using Plant Growth Regulators on Containerized Herbaceous Perennials. 
*Recommended Resource*

For a ready resource on preparing PGR solutions, download the North Carolina State University Plant Growth Regulator Calculator from: 

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/floriculture/software/pgr.html 
software allows growers to calculate the amounts of A-Rest, Atrimmec, B-Nine, Bonzi, Cycocel, Dazide, Downsize, Facination, Florel, Fresco, GibGro, Paczol, Piccolo, ProGibb, Sumagic, or Topflor needed to create any spray or drench solution you desire. If you enter your costs for each PGR, it will also calculate your materials cost per application as well as per plant treated. By entering plant dimensions and application rate per unit area, it will calculate the amount of active ingredient each plant received during application 
*Appendix. Helpful conversions.*

*Volume*
1 gallon (gal) = 128 fluid ounces (fl oz)
1 fl oz = 30 milliliters (ml)
1 gal = 3785 ml = 3.785 liters
1 cup = 48 teaspoons
1 tablespoon = 3 teaspoons
1 fl oz = 2 tablespoons = 6 teaspoons


*Weight*
1 ounce (oz) = 28.3 grams (g)
1 pound (lb) = 16 oz = 454 g

*Concentration*
1% = 10,000 ppm
1 ppm = 1 milligram (mg) per liter


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## eza82 (Feb 5, 2009)

*DATA SHEETS ON PGR`s (or man made hormones)*



*antiauxins* 
clofibric acid 
2,3,5-tri-iodobenzoic acid
*auxins* 
4-CPA 
2,4-D 
2,4-DB 
2,4-DEP 
dichlorprop 
fenoprop 
IAA 
IBA 
naphthaleneacetamide 
&#945;-naphthaleneacetic acid 
1-naphthol 
naphthoxyacetic acid 
potassium naphthenate 
sodium naphthenate 
2,4,5-T
*cytokinins* 
2iP 
benzyladenine 
kinetin 
zeatin
*defoliants* 
calcium cyanamide 
dimethipin 
endothal 
ethephon 
merphos 
metoxuron 
pentachlorophenol 
thidiazuron 
tribufos
*ethylene inhibitors* 
aviglycine 
1-methylcyclopropene
*ethylene releasers* 
ACC 
etacelasil 
ethephon 
glyoxime
*gibberellins* 
gibberellins 
gibberellic acid
*growth inhibitors* 
abscisic acid 
ancymidol 
butralin 
carbaryl 
chlorphonium 
chlorpropham 
dikegulac 
flumetralin 
fluoridamid 
fosamine 
glyphosine 
isopyrimol 
jasmonic acid 
maleic hydrazide 
mepiquat 
piproctanyl 
prohydrojasmon 
propham 


2,3,5-tri-iodobenzoic acid
*morphactins* 
chlorfluren 
chlorflurenol 
dichlorflurenol 
flurenol

*growth retardants* 
chlormequat 
daminozide 
flurprimidol 
mefluidide 
paclobutrazol 
tetcyclacis 
uniconazole
*growth stimulators* 
brassinolide 
forchlorfenuron 
hymexazol
*unclassified plant growth regulators* 
benzofluor 
buminafos 
carvone 
ciobutide 
clofencet 
cloxyfonac 
cyanamide 
cyclanilide 
cycloheximide 
cyprosulfamide 
epocholeone 
ethychlozate 
ethylene 
fenridazon 
heptopargil 
holosulf 
inabenfide 
karetazan 
lead arsenate 
methasulfocarb 
prohexadione 
pydanon 
sintofen 
triapenthenol 
trinexapac


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## eza82 (Feb 5, 2009)

*Here is a couple of PGR products ive been looking at.....*

*Dazide *has numerous uses, the most important being to regulate plant size by reducing the length of internodes. A more compact plant has greater stem strength resulting in less breakage during shipping and handling. *Dazide* also reduces apical dominance, encouraging the development of early terminal buds that branch profusely. Treated plants have a compact growth habit and enhanced flower bud formation. 
*Dazide *treated plants also tend to have deeper green foliage and a more developed root system. The latter provides firmer anchorage and better nutrient and moisture extracting capability. Consequently, plants are less likely to wilt and can recover more quickly from the stress of transplanting. *Dazide *is effective in a wide variety of ornamentals, including chrysanthemums, gardenias, azaleas, hydrangeas and poinsettias, along with petunias, marigolds and other flowering and foliage plant species. While the specific effects of *Dazide* vary with the situation, the results generated are very predictable and consistent, producing plants that look and sell at their best all year round.
*http://www.fine-agrochemicals.com/DocFrame/DocView.asp?id=308&sec=-1*



*Falgo *contains gibberellic acid (GA3). Gibberellins are compounds that are naturally produced within plants to stimulate growth. *Fine *has developed a unique fermentation method of naturally producing GA3 and markets the compound for use in ornamental plants as *falgro*. *Falgro *has a huge variety of useful applications including elongation of peduncles in Pompom Chrysanthemums, earlier flowering and increased yield in Statice and accelerated plant growth with increased number of flowering stems in Gypsophila. Offering flexibility of use, *falgro *is formulated as easy to use liquid, powder and tablet formulations.
http://www.fine-agrochemicals.com/Content/ProdH.asp?id=21


*Pirouette *regulates height and diameter in ornamental plants by reducing internode elongation due to inhibition of gibberellin biosynthesis. *Pirouette* enhances the quality of bedding plants, flowering and foliage plants, bulb crops, perennials and woody ornamentals making them easier to market and more profitable to produce. *Pirouette *helps to produce attractive plants that are easier to handle and transport by producing more compact and sturdier plants.
*Pirouette *helps growers manage the marketing of plants by allowing control of growth rates to meet increasingly stringent customer led specifications. 
http://www.fine-agrochemicals.com/Content/ProdH.asp?id=86


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## eza82 (Feb 5, 2009)

*Hydroponic additives*. 11 ways to help you plants

Additives, Hormones and Plant Growth Regulators at your local hydro store..


Here is a basic guide to producing better plants and understanding additives in order of priority. 

1. Nutrients 

You must use nutrients for Hydroponics. 


2. Vitamins 

Vitamins are our Number 2 most effective way to help a plant do well. 

Vitamins for plants help a plant feel better when stressed, and keep a plant healthy. 

Vitamins will help with resistance to fungal rots and insect attacks for instance. 

While plants manufacture vitamins for themselves, if they have a supply of them, they can turn their energy to producing other elements they need, and thereby speed up growth. 

Nutriboost is a concentrate that you add to nutrients, or spray onto the plants. 1ml per 10 litres whilst growing and for high performance, increase to 10ml per 10 litres for flowering/fruiting. 50ml $10, 100ml $15, 200ml $20 500ml $40 1litre $70 and 5litre $315. 

Another vitamin additive is Superthrive, but is recommended for soil as it contains a glue to make it stick to soil, and in Hydroponics it just sticks to media and makes everything go green with super vitaminised algae! 

3. Cleansing 

Cleaning the water that comes through the tap and the water which is recycled from any pathogen helps keep the plants strength in growing not fighting. 

Have you ever been fighting a cold, not really got sick, but just been a little slowed down. If you keep your system and root zone really clean you will see an improvement in the plants vigour. 

Hydroshield cleans the water with two highly effective cleansers, Hydrogen peroxide, bonded with silver. The silver builds immunity while activates the Hydrogen peroxide to react and keep reacting with any single celled organism, such as green algae, fungal root rots, viruses, bacteria, and also removes chlorine from the water. Dose at 2ml per litre to prevent problems, or dose every 1-3 days to kill any fungal outbreak until plants are healthy again. 

Hydroshield comes in 250ml $10 1litre $20 5litre $80 25litre $350 

As an alternative to cleaning by sterilising, you can use a high dose of beneficial bacteria to keep nasties away. Power active and Stop wilt from Nulife are great for those not using sterlising agents like Hydroshield or Pythoff. They act like a plant tonic helping the plant by creating a biological barrier for plants root system. 

4. Silica 

Silica is not silicon, it is an element that cannot be put into the nutrient formula, due to instability, but it should be part of any plants nutrition. 

Consider silica like a missing link between plant vitality, strength, resistance to infection, and increased harvests. 

The silica helps strengthen cells, and plants are much healthier from the continual addition of silica. 

Ensure you have a highly soluble form and you will begin to see effect from around 2 weeks onwards. Budlink, Silica magic or Dutch Master silica are very good forms of silica. 

5. Foliar spraying 

Have you looked at the way fertilisers are added in commercial operations. Usually by injection of liquid fertilisers into the overhead sprinklers. 

This is partly because it is quick and easy, however, you can find research that the same liquid added to the leaves (which them runs off into the soil), instead of just the soil is around 25% more in harvest yields. 

Also things such as amino acids are more difficult to absorb through the roots than through the leaves. 

We have made up Amino Sprays containing high quality mineral nutrients, vitamins, organic additives such as amino acids, as well a wetting agent to assist uptake and spreading. 

Ready to use, just pour into a spray bottle and spray, preferably towards the end of the day, or when artificial lighting sources are about to switch off for the night. 

Amino Acid Sprays come in Grow, Flowering and Harvest formulas to ensure nutrition is improved for the particular stage of the plants life. 

A 1litre is $8, and 5litres is $24. 

Its an inexpensive way to increase crops without increasing your system size. 

Remember that spraying should be done around twice a week in cooler months, and once per week during humid hotter months. Discontinue if any chance of mould or fungus on leaves (e.g. poorly ventilated greenhouses/ grow rooms) 

6. Cell dividers 

Some additves help the plants grow quicker by making their cells divide quicker. 

Organic additives such as monsta bud, psychobud and megabud cause plants to grow faster in this way 

Monstabud and Psychobud are the same except Psychobud is more concentrated. 

Both are available in an additive to nutrient in separate formulas for grow, flower and harvest/final stages. 

Megabud is used only in the fist and third week of flowering and is very high performance. 

Bio Earth Sea Acids are a unique product that can be used alongside the other products for very fast plant meatabolism, meaning faster growth and flowering 

7. Weight Adders 

Potassium is stored in the flower/fruit during the flowering process. 

To add weight, products like weight plus use potassium to add weight 

Weight plus 1ltr is $20 and is added at 1ml per litre 

Other potassium products are Potash plus and Canna PK1314 but are not as pH stable as weight plus which is fully balanced and should not affect your pH 

8. Harvest activator 

Superbud is a hobby derivitive similar to products used in stonefruit commercial farming. 

It causes extremely rapid fruiting and flowering and makes fruit very firm immediately. 

It stops ALL Growth, and plants will NOT grow more than 1 inch once added. 

Do not add until the final height and size required. 

Recirculating use 3ml of each part per litre, if hand watering or run to waste use 5ml per litre of each 

Use for 7-9 days no more and no less. 

It is $165 for a litre. 

9. Height Controllers 

Bonza bud creates the same effect as â&#8364;&#732;tipping' a plant without removing the top growth, which would eventually produce much more branches and flower/fruit points 

It blocks the hormone that causes a plant to grow taller, and instead of growing , say 5cm and producing a branch it will produce less, maybe 2-3 cm thus making a plant shorter 

A shorter plant has more even light from top to bottom and thus increases yield on lower branches 

Bonza Bud encourages more side growth and these branches will produce extra fruiting/flowering points per plant also increasing yeilds 

50ml $25 use at 2ml/litre for extremely stetched out plants, or 1ml/litre for normal plants to be sortened slightly 

Respray to improve effect as desired or every 4 weeks. 

Spray over plants until liquid runs off. 

10. Rootzone accelerant 

A large root zone creates a healthier plant and helps uptake 

Rootzone accelerant helps roots, especially for new plants/clones to get them established 

11. Feminising products 

Female products come in two varieties 

Male supressants such as la femme and feminiser, used to reduce the chances of a male as a seedling is raised 

Hermaphrodite treatments such as Budwise, which make male flowers shrivel up and drop off. 

Notes for Sick Plants : 
Use additives carefully when plants are sick. 
If any root rot, spray vitamins onto plant. Vitamins around roots will strengthen the fungus that is attacking your plant. 
If mould or fungal attacks on leaves discontinue sprays

FROM

http://www.marijuanagrowing.eu


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## eza82 (Feb 5, 2009)

I think Im finally getting somewhere..... I will look to creat a full FEED chart for NUTES, VITS, PGR`s...over a 13week cycle with 8-9 week flower. (SOG)

I have pictures to post on the progress...ended with clones and turned mothers into producers, and will pull out mothers from this batch.
And the Mr X who gave me original 2 clones- he assumed they were twice the age, than they actually were when he saw flower......always a good sign (in short bigger better fatter )..... And my Big lady (outdoors) is now 7ft and flowering and I did end up [email protected]#kin with them alot, with good results (huge buds) .. I will get around to putting up the data journel & pics soon.

I like hormones & PGR`s and look forward to playing more..........


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## Jester88 (Feb 5, 2009)

well done threads looking good..

i like the way your getting more basick about it the more ya learn. meaning your starting to explain things a bit better .... meaning people who dont know squat about them may be able to have a good start.... 

cant wait for the journal and what not too....

keep up the good work 
jester88


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## eza82 (Feb 6, 2009)

This is the last two additives im going to play with............ These are hard to group into either micronute/vitimans/minerals or hormones they both have similar values in each catergory. 


1. Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) is a water molecule with an extra atom of Oxygen attached (2H2O + O2 = 2H2O2). 

H2O2 is a clear sharp smelling substance very similar in appearance to water (H2O). Like water it is made up of Hydrogen and Oxygen, however H2O2 has an extra Oxygen atom in an unstable arrangement. It is this extra atom that gives H2O2 its useful properties. H2O2 has been used for many purposes including cleaning, bleaching, sterilizing, rocket fuel, animal feed treatment and in addition many miraculous claims about its health benefits have been made. This article isn't about any of these; instead it will concentrate on horticultural applications. H2O2 is of great use for both hydroponics and dirt/soilless gardening. 
1. What Does Hydrogen Peroxide do? 
H2O2 is an unstable molecule, when it breaks down a single oxygen atom and a molecule of water is released. This oxygen atom is extremely reactive and will attach itself to either another O- atom forming a stable Oxygen molecule or attack a nearby organic molecule. Both the stable and O- forms will increase the level of dissolved oxygen. This is the method by which H2O2 is beneficial. Pretreating the water supply with H2O2 will drive out the Chlorine many cities use to sterilize it. This will also degrade any pesticides or herbicides that might be present as well as any other organic matter. Well water can be high in methane and organic sulfates, both of which H2O2 will remove. Many disease causing organisms and spores are killed by Oxygen, the free Oxygen H2O2 releases is extremely effective at this. H2O2 will help eliminate existing infections and will help prevent future ones. It is also useful for suppressing algae growth. The free Oxygen atom will destroy dead organic material (i.e, leaves roots) in the system preventing them from rotting and spreading diseases. 
2.Over Watering 
Roots require Oxygen to breathe and low levels are the main cause of almost all root diseases. Both soil and hydroponic plants often fall prey to the same syndrome although it is rarely recognized as what it really is. Hydroponic crops often fail due to "root rot" and soil crops succumb to "over watering." The real cause of both these problems is a shortage of Oxygen at the root zone. In a soil system the soil consists of particles, a film of water on the particles and air spaces between the particles. When too much water is put into the soil the air spaces fill with liquid. The roots will quickly use up what Oxygen is dissolved in the water, if they haven't drunk enough of the liquid to allow air back in to the soil spaces they will stop working. In this situation roots will start dying within twenty-four hours. As the roots die the plants ability to drink water and nutrients will decrease, this will cause symptoms of nutrient deficiencies (mostly pale, slow, weak growth), and strangely they will start to wilt like they don't have enough water. It is easy to make a fatal mistake at this point and add more water. 
In a Hydroponic system the cause is a more direct simple lack of oxygen in the solution, this may be from inadequate circulation and/or aeration. High reservoir temperatures also interfere with Oxygen's ability to dissolve in the water. Temperatures above 70F (20C) will eventually cause problems, 62F-65F (16C-18C) is recommended. The same symptoms will appear as with soil plants but you can also check the roots. Healthy roots should be mostly white with maybe a slight yellowish tan tinge. If they are a brownish colour with dead tips or they easily pull away there is at least the beginnings of a serious problem. An organic dirtlike rotting smell means there is already a very good chance it is too late. As roots die and rot they eat Oxygen out of the water, as Oxygen levels are even further depleted more roots die, a viscius circle may be well under way. Reduced Oxygen levels and high temperatures both encourage anaerobic bacteria and fungi. The plants may still be saved but you will have to work fast. 
3. How Hydrogen Peroxide prevents root rot/overwatering. 
When plants are watered with H2O2 it will break down and release Oxygen into the area around the roots. This helps stop the Oxygen from being depleted in the water filled air spaces until air can get back into them. High Oxygen levels at the roots will encourage rapid healthy root growth. In a Hydroponic system H2O2 will disperse through out the system and raise Oxygen levels as it breaks down. Strong white healthy roots with lots of fuzzy new growth will be visible. This fuzzy growth has massive surface area allowing for rapid absorption of the huge amounts of water and nutrients needed for rapid top growth. A healthy plant starts with a healthy root system. 
4. How to use it. 
H2O2 comes in several different strengths 3%, 5%, 8% and 35%, also sold as food grade Hydrogen Peroxide. The most economical is 35% which we recommend be diluted to three percent before using, as at this high concentration it can cause damage to skin and clothing. When working with food grade H2O2 it is very important that you clean up any spills or splashes immediately, it will damage almost anything very quickly. This is extra important with skin and clothing. Skin will be temporarily bleached pure white if not washed cleaned. Gloves are strongly recommended when working with any strong chemical. 
Food grade H2O2 can be diluted to three percent by mixing it one part to eleven parts water (preferably distilled). The storage container should be opaque to prevent light from getting in and it must be able to hold some pressure. If three-liter pop bottles are available in your area they are ideal for mixing and storing H2O2. There are twelve quarter liters (250ml) in three liters, if you put in one quarter liter H2O2 and eleven quarter liters (250ml) water in the bottle it will full of three percent H2O2 and the bottle can hold the pressure that the H2O2 will generate. Three percent Hydrogen Peroxide may be added at up to three ml's per liter (2 1\2 tsp. Per gallon), but it is recommended that you start at a lower concentration and increase to full strength over a few weeks. Use every watering even on fresh cuttings. For hydroponics use every reservoir change and replace twenty-five percent (one quarter) every day. Example: In a 100L reservoir you would add three hundred ml's (3%) H2O2 when changing the nutrient. You would then add seventy-five ml's more every day. 
5. Where to get it. 
35% food grade: called food grade because it has no toxic impurities
Of course your local hydroponics retailer, whom you can locate over the web at www.hydromall.com. Direct order off the web (there may be shipping restrictions on high strength peroxides). H2O2 is used to bleach hair so the local hairdresser may have a source. The local feed supplier may have it in small towns. Prices range from fifteen dollars per quarter liter to eighty dollars a gallon. One gallon will treat up to fifty thousand liters of water. 
3%5%, 8%
Can be found at most drugstores or pharmacies, prices start at a less than a dollar for a one hundred-ml bottle that will treat one hundred liters. 
6. What to do if you already have root rot. 
In Dirt:
Use peroxided water with anti-fungicide (benomyl) and a high Phosphate fertilizer (9-45-15, 10-52-10, 0-60-0) for root growth. Root booster (5-15-5) or any other product with rooting hormone dissolved in it is helpful in regrowing roots and is strongly recommended. If a plant is wilty adding Nutri-Boost may save it. Water heavily until liquid pours out the bottom of the pot. This sound like bad idea, but it flushes out stagnant dead water and replaces it with fresh highly oxygenated water. Don't let plants sit in trays full of water, the soil will absorb this water and stay too wet. Don't water again until the pot feels light and the top inch or two of the soil are dry. 
In Hydro:
Change your nutrients. Add H2O2 to the system. This will add oxygen and chemically eat dead roots. If roots are badly rotted and can be pulled away by hand you should pull them off. They are already dead and will only rot, causing further problems. Add a fungicide to kill any fungus that is probably present in the rotted tissue to prevent it from spreading. Root booster will speed recovery. If plants are wilty Nutri-Boost may help save them. Increase aeration of the water, get an airpump and air stones, or more of them, for the reservoir. An air stone under every plant is usually very effective, but will require a larger air pump. Models that will do from forty to four hundred stones are available. Decrease the reservoir temperature, oxygen dissolves better in cold water and disease causing organisms reproduce slower as well. A good temperate range is 62F to 65F; anything above 70F will eventually cause a problem. It is also a good idea to remove any wilty plants from the system and put them on a separate reservoir so they don't infect plants that are still healthy. 
Summary 
The key to big productive plants is a big healthy root system and Hydrogen Peroxide is a great way to keep your roots healthy. It is a must to ensure the biggest best crops possible and to increase the chances of your plants thriving to harvest. Peroxide users will rarely lose plants or crops to root disease and will harvest larger and more consistent crops.

REF: http://thegardenguy.tripod.com/omma/id15.html​


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## eza82 (Feb 6, 2009)

2. MOLASSES
There are three main types of Molasses:-
Unsulphured 
Sulphured 
Blackstrap
Unsulphured Molasses are the finest quality, they are taken from the juice of sun-ripened Sugar Cane whihc is then clarified and concentrated.
Sulphured - These are made from green sugar that has not been matured enough, it is treated with sulphur fumes during the sugar extracting process. It then goes through a first boiling process - the Molasses from this first boil are the best as only a small amount of sugar has been removed. The process then goes into it's second boil which makes the Molasses a much darker colour, they are also not as sweet and are not distinctively flavoured.

Blackstrap - These are Molasses that have gone through the third boil. There main use is in the manufacturer of Cattle Food and Industrial Uses. Saying that these Molasses are extremely high in Iron and are also used in the health food industry.

*Molasses and our plants!* 
Molasses is a syrupy, thick juice created by the processing of either sugar beets or the sugar cane plant. Depending on the definition used, Sweet Sorghum also qualifies as a molasses, although technically it&#8217;s a thickened syrup more akin to Maple Syrup than to molasses. The grade and type of molasses depends on the maturity of the sugar cane or beet and the method of extraction. The different molasses&#8217; have names like: first molasses, second molasses, unsulphured molasses, sulphured molasses, and blackstrap molasses. For gardeners the sweet syrup can work as a carbohydrate source to feed and stimulate microorganisms. And, because molasses (average NPK 1-0-5) contains potash, sulfur, and many trace minerals, it can serve as a nutritious soil amendment. Molasses is also an excellent chelating agent.

Several grades and types of molasses are produced by sugar cane processing. First the plants are harvested and stripped of their leaves, and then the sugar cane is usually crushed or mashed to extract it&#8217;s sugary juice. Sugar manufacturing begins by boiling cane juice until it reaches the proper consistency, it is then processed to extract sugar. This first boiling and processing produces what is called first molasses, this has the highest sugar content of the molasses because relatively little sugar has been extracted from the juice. Green (unripe) sugar cane that has been treated with sulphur fumes during sugar extraction produces sulphured molasses. The juice of sun-ripened cane which has been clarified and concentrated produces unsulphured molasses. Another boiling and sugar extraction produces second molasses which has a slight bitter tinge to its taste. 

Further rounds of processing and boiling yield dark colored blackstrap molasses, which is the most nutritionally valuable of the various types of molasses. It is commonly used as a sweetner in the manufacture of cattle and other animal feeds, and is even sold as a human health supplement. Any kind of molasses will work to provide benefit for soil and growing plants, but blackstrap molasses is the best choice because it contains the greatest concentration of sulfur, iron and micronutrients from the original cane material. Dry molasses is something different still. It&#8217;s not exactly just dried molasses either, it&#8217;s molasses sprayed on grain residue which acts as a &#8220;carrier&#8221;.

Molasses production is a bit different when it comes to the sugar beet. You might say &#8220;bird&#8217;s know beets&#8221; because one of our flock grew up near Canada&#8217;s &#8220;sugar beet capitol&#8221; in Alberta. Their family worked side by side with migrant workers tending the beet fields. The work consisted of weeding and thinning by hand, culling the thinner and weaker plants to leave behind the best beets. After the growing season and several hard frosts - which increase the sugar content - the beets are harvested by machines, piled on trucks and delivered to their destination. 

At harvest time, a huge pile of beets will begin to build up outside of the sugar factory that will eventually dwarf the factory itself in size. Gradually throughout the winter the pile will diminish as the whole beets are ground into a mash and then cooked. The cooking serves to reduce and clarify the beet mash, releasing huge columns of stinky (but harmless) beet steam into the air. Sometimes, if the air is cold enough, the steam will fall to the ground around the factory as snow!

As we&#8217;ve already learned, in the of sugar cane the consecutive rounds of sugar manufacturing produce first molasses and second molasses. With the humble sugar beet, the intermediate syrups get names like high green and low green, it&#8217;s only the syrup left after the final stage of sugar extraction that is called molasses. After final processing, the leftover sugar beet mash is dried then combined with the thick black colored molasses to serve as fodder for cattle. Sugar beet molasses is also used to sweeten feed for horses, sheep, chickens, etc.

Sugar beet molasses is only considered useful as an animal feed additive because it has fairly high concentrations of many salts including calcium, potassium, oxalate, and chloride. Despite the fact that it&#8217;s not suitable for human consumption and some consider it to be an industrial waste or industrial by-product, molasses produced from sugar beets makes a wonderful plant fertilizer. While humans may reject beet molasses due to the various &#8220;extras&#8221; the sugar beet brings to the table, to our plant&#8217;s it&#8217;s a different story. Sugar beet molasses is usually fairly chemical free as well, at least in our experience. Although farmers generally fertilize their fields in the spring using the various arrays of available fertilizers, weed chemicals (herbicides) are not used for this crop due to the beet plant&#8217;s relatively delicate nature.

There is at least one other type of &#8220;molasses&#8221; we are aware of, and that would be sorghum molasses. It&#8217;s made from a plant known as sweet sorghum or sorghum cane in treatments somewhat similar to sugar beets and/or sugar cane processing. If our understanding is correct, sorghum molasses is more correctly called a thickened syrup rather than a by-product of sugar production. So in our eyes sorghum molasses is probably more like Maple Syrup than a true molasses. 

In the distant past sorghum syrup was a common locally produced sweetener in many areas, but today it is fairly rare speciality product that could get fairly pricey compared to Molasses. Because sorghum molasses is the final product of sweet sorghum processing, and blackstrap and sugar beet molasses are simply waste by-products of sugar manufacturing, it&#8217;s pretty easy to understand the difference in expense between the products. The word from the birds is - there isn&#8217;t any apparent advantage to justify the extra expense of using sorghum molasses as a substitute for blackstrap or sugar beet molasses in the garden. So if you find sorghum molasses, instead of using it in your garden, you&#8217;ll probably want to use it as an alternate sweetener on some biscuits.

That&#8217;s a quick bird&#8217;s eye look at the differences between the various types and grades of molasses and how they are produced. Now it&#8217;s time to get a peek at the why&#8217;s and how&#8217;s of using molasses in gardening.


Why Molasses?
The reason nutrient manufacturer&#8217;s have &#8220;discovered&#8221; molasses is the simple fact that it&#8217;s a great source of carbohydrates to stimulate the growth of beneficial microorganisms. &#8220;Carbohydrate&#8221; is really just a fancy word for sugar, and molasses is the best sugar for horticultural use. Folks who have read some of our prior essays know that we are big fans of promoting and nourishing soil life, and that we attribute a good portion of our growing success to the attention we pay to building a thriving &#8220;micro-herd&#8221; to work in concert with plant roots to digest and assimilate nutrients. We really do buy into the old organic gardening adage - &#8220;Feed the soil not the plant.&#8221;

Molasses is a good, quick source of energy for the various forms of microbes and soil life in a compost pile or good living soil. As we said earlier, molasses is a carbon source that feeds the beneficial microbes that create greater natural soil fertility. But, if giving a sugar boost was the only goal, there would be lot&#8217;s of alternatives. We could even go with the old Milly Blunt story of using Coke on plants as a child, after all Coke would be a great source of sugar to feed microbes and it also contains phosphoric acid to provide phosphorus for strengthening roots and encouraging blooming. In our eyes though, the primary thing that makes molasses the best sugar for agricultural use is it&#8217;s trace minerals. 

In addition to sugars, molasses contains significant amounts of potash, sulfur, and a variety of micronutrients. Because molasses is derived from plants, and because the manufacturing processes that create it remove mostly sugars, the majority of the mineral nutrients that were contained in the original sugar cane or sugar beet are still present in molasses. This is a critical factor because a balanced supply of mineral nutrients is essential for those &#8220;beneficial beasties&#8221; to survive and thrive. That&#8217;s one of the secrets we&#8217;ve discovered to really successful organic gardening, the micronutrients found in organic amendments like molasses, kelp, and alfalfa were all derived from other plant sources and are quickly and easily available to our soil and plants. This is especially important for the soil &#8220;micro-herd&#8221; of critters who depend on tiny amounts of those trace minerals as catalysts to make the enzymes that create biochemical transformations. That last sentence was our fancy way of saying - it&#8217;s actually the critters in &#8220;live soil&#8221; that break down organic fertilizers and &#8220;feed&#8221; it to our plants.

One final benefit molasses can provide to your garden is it&#8217;s ability to work as a chelating agent. That&#8217;s a scientific way of saying that molasses is one of those &#8220;magical&#8221; substances that can convert some chemical nutrients into a form that&#8217;s easily available for critters and plants. Chelated minerals can be absorbed directly and remain available and stable in the soil. Rather than spend a lot of time and effort explaining the relationships between chelates and micronutrients, we are going to quote one of our favorite sources for explaining soil for scientific laymen. 

&#8220;Micronutrients occur, in cells as well as in soil, as part of large, complex organic molecules in chelated form. The word chelate (pronounced &#8220;KEE-late&#8221 comes from the Greek word for &#8220;claw,&#8221; which indicates how a single nutrient ion is held in the center of the larger molecule. The finely balanced interactions between micronutrients are complex and not fully understood. We do know that balance is crucial; any micronutrient, when present in excessive amounts, will become a poison, and certain poisonous elements, such as chlorine are also essential micronutrients.
For this reason natural, organic sources of micronutrients are the best means of supplying them to the soil; they are present in balanced quantities and not liable to be over applied through error or ignorance. When used in naturally chelated form, excess micronutrients will be locked up and prevented from disrupting soil balance.&#8221;

ref: http://forum.grasscity.com/general-indoor-growing/202743-molasses-our-plants.html


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## eza82 (Feb 6, 2009)

*FINALLY DONE! *TOTAL FEED SCHEDUAL for MY NEW GROW EXPERIMENT.............. 

PLEASE FIND Attached a Excel spread (zipped)with 
*NUTES, VITAMNS, HORMONES, MICRO NUTES, PGR`S........ 13 WK CYCLE*
Everything is from label recommendations or successfull experiments ive read about....(except penatrator)


ANY THOUGHTS..... CRITISIMS or opinions please express............

gIVE ME A YELL IF IT DONT WORK!............ cANT FOR THE LIFE OF ME FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET IT DISPLAYED RATHER THAN ATTACHMENT????? aNYBODY KNOW HOW i CAN DIRECT UP LOAD (BAR TAKIN A PHOTO OF IT) SO ITS ON THE THREAd AS A CHART NOT ATTACHMENT???????


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## eza82 (Feb 7, 2009)

Thought I might up date the ladies photos for everyone.... 15 days flower & the crowns are already about the size of my fist. Lights have just gone on so they have just woken up..... i luv hormones....






















Im going to get this last photo framed for the wall........ & its my new desk top


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## eza82 (Feb 7, 2009)

iN FEED SCHEDUAL THE BRASSINOLIDE SHOULD BE FOR APPLICATION: WEEK 3 VEG....... i WAS JUST READING OVER MY NOTES. here it is again with RIGHT TIMING:


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## eza82 (Feb 7, 2009)




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## eza82 (Feb 7, 2009)

mrs big - 7FT AND JUST STARTED TO FLOWER - 






AND ALL THE LADIES OUT DOORS


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## Greenisgold (Feb 8, 2009)

Wow, this is quite the informative thread and I have to give it to ya for trying some of these hormonoes out. I did not read the entire thread, but I use a product called tomato bloom spray II. I use it right when buds just start to form. I spray it on during lights off, If I use it at the perfect time I get explosive results within 2 days. If I do not use it at the right time, I get nothing or it locks the plant up just a tad. I have used it on clones and have experimented side by side, and the ones I spray "usually" will out perform the ones I do not.
Alfaffa meal is the shit as well which is supposedly what ST is made from.


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## eza82 (Feb 8, 2009)

The whole thread is littered with my collection of studies and papers found,written,copied etc..... So if your into this shit.......... 
Find out whats in the bloom spray for me ?????


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## onenumcat (Feb 8, 2009)

I'm not new to the idea/information, but that sheeet is expensive especially the GA3! so, I'm trying to do similar things, naturally.
I'm also lazy, so the rest of this was copies from my other post, of your's: (https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/159124-photos-ladies-15days-flower-4.html)

'yup, looking good eza. I've been trying to harness hormones(god, I luv it when they moan!), naturally, for some little while now. primarily, ethylene...since it's gaseous, it's easier to manipulate, right at it's source...the plant. also, whenever one hormone is stimulated or increased, the other 4, primary, whoremoans(oops!) will become more active.

I start the process from seed, using several methods\techniques.
first, bag those lil beauties with b'nana peels or apple, melon, cuccumber rinds, for two weeks.
next, just as the true veg stage begins...I gas them with CO, carbon monixide. they get several sessions, several hours each. the room is sealed during...I air it out afterwards.
then, final one, just as I switch the lights to 12\12, I bag them with a large, clear(transparent), plastic bag, which reaches down to the bottom of the planter, placing the veg/fruit rinds, again, just on top of the soil, under the bag, at night only...removing the bag and rinds about an hour or so after lights on/'morning'. (I haven't gotten to this stage in my grow yet)
forgot to add...I'll only do that for several days, to speed up the start of flowering, but...
I'll do the exact same thing, just before harvesting, to assist the final ripening and begin abscission, dropping of fruit/leaves.

if you haven't seen my lights....they're here, pretty kool, if I say so myself!
_*http://www.youtube.com/onenumcat*_

my journal: *5 strains! Medi-bud, THC Bomb, Mango, SS Haze, J. Herer*

keep tokin! '


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## eza82 (Feb 8, 2009)

Did you read the feed schedual?? Im useing FALGRO...... Not that expensive..... comes in large quantities and I need SFA....
*Falgo *contains gibberellic acid (GA3). Gibberellins are compounds that are naturally produced within plants to stimulate growth. *Fine *has developed a unique fermentation method of naturally producing GA3 and markets the compound for use in ornamental plants as *falgro*. *Falgro *has a huge variety of useful applications including elongation of peduncles in Pompom Chrysanthemums, earlier flowering and increased yield in Statice and accelerated plant growth with increased number of flowering stems in Gypsophila. Offering flexibility of use, *falgro *is formulated as easy to use liquid, powder and tablet formulations.
http://www.fine-agrochemicals.com/Content/ProdH.asp?id=21


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## onenumcat (Feb 8, 2009)

my own method is free, cuz I'm a cheap bastard! (one of many character flaws, lol) of course, it's all experimental!
I'll keep lookin in from time to time, and probably, sooner than later.

Keep it real...

ah, I see....
uh, I live in Japan...don't read Japanese...and would have to order online...if it would even make it through customs....
well, you see my problem...
...doing the best I can.


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## Greenisgold (Feb 8, 2009)

This is the active ingredient of Tomato bloom spray" Cytokinin as kinetin based on biological activity 0.00008% . A very small amount, but it seems to do the trick if used properly.


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## peach (Feb 8, 2009)

I don't know if it's already been said, but I think GA3 encourages your plants to change sex.

A lot of the growth hormones are similar in structure, so it's possible they may do similar things. 

None the less, I'll be interested. I have about 5g of GA3 that I've not been using in a drawer.

I've seen what it'll do to plants, it can be really impressive.

Although, something else to think about is that things like GA3 commonly cause extensive etiolation (node stretching).


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## eza82 (Feb 8, 2009)

peach said:


> I don't know if it's already been said, but I think GA3 encourages your plants to change sex.
> 
> A lot of the growth hormones are similar in structure, so it's possible they may do similar things.
> 
> ...


You have to read whole thread............ But great to have you here and hope you can give some input.......

I Want some people for feed&dose experiment soon.... grow journal, same grow different hormones.


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## eza82 (Feb 8, 2009)

Greenisgold said:


> This is the active ingredient of Tomato bloom spray" Cytokinin as kinetin based on biological activity 0.00008% . A very small amount, but it seems to do the trick if used properly.


So you sparay at first sign of buds ? How many times and how much of it ? Sry if ive asked this -stoned

Cytokinin as kinetin
Which are the adenine-type cytokinins that are synthesised in stems, leaves and roots.
Adenine-type cytokinins represented by kinetin ARE; zeatin and *6-ben *to name a few.

*As per bottle:*
*Tomato bloom II*
*Active ingredients:* 
Cytokinin as kinetin based on biological activity 0.00008% 
Inert ingredients 99.99992% _INERT- MEANS its clean fill.(plasebo)_

Tomato Bloom Spray II has natural hormones that provide biological grow power to promote flowering, increase blossom set and increase fruit yield. In addition to tomatoes, beans, cucumbers, eggplants, melons, okra, peppers and many other vegetables will often bear earlier when treated with this product. Spray the flowers and adjacent foliage with Tomato Bloom Spray II until thoroughly wet. No mixing, no fixing, just point and shoot! Repeat as blossoms appear at weekly to 2-week intervals.


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6612723/All-About-Hemp

REAL GOOD READ........ WORTH THE TIME STARTS A BIT WISHY WASHY but gets into it.


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

Here is the some intresting Chemicals/hormones/pgr that Ive not heard anyone speak much of........ From link above: 
Hempseed can be induced to sprout within 12 hours if it is soaked in a solution of Mg-sulfate (0.8 % Epsom salt) or MgCl and then steamed with ether. 
Treatment with a 1% solution result in damage to the seeds. Germination occurs within 10 hours when hempseed is soaked in Mn-sulfate (1.5%) plus ether treatment, or with Pb-nitrate (0.5%) without ether treatment. 
Sprouting takes place within 6 hours when seeds are soaked in a solution of oxalic acid (1%) [which is a natural ethylene producer], with or without ether treatment. The germination percentage is higher in darkness than in light. 
The resulting plants produced up to 88% increase in the dry weight of stems, and the plants&#8217; height increased up to 26%. 
The dry weight and height of the stems varied with formulas of the solutions; therefore this method can be used to improve plants in a systematic manner. Dry ether alone has no such influence; it is effective only in combination with the chemical solutions. 

Treatment with carbon dioxide or ethylene before sowing influences positively the growth, budding, flowering, and ripening of hemp. Root development, seed production and total yields also are greatly increased by such treatment.


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

Ethylene, Im still highly curious about it, time and time again I see it in grow journels from univercities and PHD papers found........but I cant find any grows on RIU useing it.. like Co2 i mean.... Its been seen on here to help germinate seeds in the way of rotting banana peel. But a proper dose schedual ?????? Ill put my research up...


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## Jester88 (Feb 9, 2009)

isnt that what your eventually gonna put together


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> isnt that what your eventually gonna put together


lol FUNNY YOU SHOULD SAY THATS WHAT IVE BEEN WORKIN ON.....
*Ethylene Gas C2H4*

A flammable, colorless, Gas with a characteristic sweet odor
Technical Data
Mol. Wt.: 28.05
Sp. Volume: 13.8 cf/lb
Flammability Limits: 13.1-32% in Air
Toxicity: Simple asphyxiant
Compatibility: Noncorrosive
Valve outlet: CGA 350, LB CGA 170Shipping Information
DOT Name: Ethylene, Compressed
Hazard Class: 2.1
DOT No.: UN 1962
DOT Label: Flammable Gas
CAS No.: 74-85-1​_source: http://www.specialgas.com/ethylene.htm _
------------------------------------

Ethylene gas (C2H4) is an odorless, colorless gas that exists in 

nature and is also created by man-made sources. 
Not easily detectable, it exists where produce is stored. In nature, the largest producers are plant and plant products (ie. fruits, vegetables and floral products) which produce ethylene within their tissues and release it into the surrounding atmosphere. It is also a by-product of man-made processes, such as combustion.
As is often the case, the role of ethylene and its effects on produce was discovered by accident. . .( I found that too later in post)

Ethylene, also known as the 'death' or 'ripening hormone' plays a regulatory role in many processes of plant growth, development and eventually death. Fruits, vegetables and flowers contain receptors which serve as bonding sites to absorb free atmospheric ethylene molecules. The common practice of placing a tomato, avocado or banana in a paper bag to hasten ripening is an example of the action of ethylene on produce. Increased levels of ethylene contained within the bag, released by the produce itself, serves as a stimulant after reabsorption to initiate the production of more ethylene. The overall effect is to hasten ripening, aging and eventually spoilage. A refrigerator acts in much the same way. Kept closed to retain the desired temperature, it also enables an increased concentration of ethylene to accumulate. Any closed environment, such as a truck trailer, shipping container or warehouse, will have a similar effect.
_source: http://www.marathonproducts.com/products/ethyover.html 27jul01_

So the Closed/sealed grow room comes into play again, Considering the greater success from The SEALED room concept, then would it not be hard to pin Ethylene as a major contributing factor as well as the Co2 injected. If sealed the plant will naturally produce it and the room sealsit increasing over time you WILL HAVE A SATURATION TOWARD END OF FLOWER, HELPING WITH IT ABSCISSION AND MATURITY. 

*THIS WAS INTRESTING:*
*Ethylene Sensitivity Chart*
N=None 
H=High
L=Low
M=Medium
VH=Very High
VL=Very Low 
a.Temperature C / F>> b. Ethylene Production>> c. Ethylene Sensitivity

ie: Apple (non-chilled)a. 1.1 / 30 =TEMP b.VH = production c. H = sensitivity 

Fruits & Vegetables
Apple (non-chilled) 1.1 / 30 VH H Apple (chilled) 4.4 / 40 VH H Apricot -0.5 / 31 H H Artichoke 0 / 32 VL L Asian Pear 1.1 / 34 H H Asparagus 2.2 / 36 VL M (Toughness) Avocado (California) 3.3 / 38 H H Avocado (Tropical) 10.0 / 50 H H Banana 14.4 / 58 M H Beans (Lima) 0 / 32 L M Beans (Snap/Green) 7.2 / 45 L M Belgian Endive 2.2 / 36 VL M Berries (Blackberry) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold) Berries (Blueberry) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold) Berries (Cranberry) 2.2 / 36 L L (Mold) Berries (Currants) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold) Berries (Dewberry) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold) Berries (Elderberry) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold) Berries (Gooseberry) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold) Berries (Loganberry) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold) Berries (Raspberry) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold) Berries (Strawberry) -0.5 / 31 L L (Mold) Breadfruit 13.3 / 56 M M Broccoli 0 / 32 VL H (Yellowing) Brussel Sprouts 0 / 32 VL H Cabbage 0 / 32 VL H Cantalope 4.4 / 40 H M Cape Gooseberry 12.2 / 54 L L Carrots (Topped) 0 / 32 VL L (Bitterness) Casaba Melon 10.0 / 50 L L Cauliflower 0 / 32 VL H Celery 0 / 32 VL M Chard 0 / 32 VL H Cherimoya 12.8 / 55 VH H Cherry (Sour) -0.5 / 31 VL L (Softening) Cherry (Sweet) -1.1 / 30 VL L (Softening) Chicory 0 / 32 VL H Chinese Gooseberry 0 / 32 L H Collards 0 / 32 VL M Crenshaw Melon 10.0 / 50 M H Cucumbers 10.0 / 50 L H (Yellowing) Eggplant 10.0 / 50 L L Endive (Escarole) 0 / 32 VL M Feijoa 5.0 / 41 M L Figs 0 / 32 M L Garlic 0 / 32 VL L (Odor) Ginger 13.3 / 56 VL L Grapefruit (AZ,CA,FL,TX) 13.3 / 56 VL M (Mold) Grapes -1.1 / 30 VL L (Mold) Greens (Leafy) 0 / 32 VL H (Russet Spotting) Guava 10 / 50 L M Honeydew 10 / 50 M H Horseradish 0 / 32 VL L Jack Fruit 13.3 / 56 M M Kale 0 / 32 VL M Kiwi Fruit 0 / 32 L H Kohlrabi 0 / 32 VL L Leeks 0 / 32 VL M Lemons 12.2 / 54 VL M (Mold) Lettuce (Butterhead) 0 / 32 L M (Russet Spotting) Lettuce (Head/Iceberg) 0 / 32 VL H (Russet Spotting) Lime 12.2 / 54 VL M (Mold Degreen) Lychee 1.7 /35 M M Mandarine 7.2 / 45 VL M Mango 13.3 / 56 M H Mangosteen 13.3 / 56 M H Mineola 3.3 / 38 L L Mushrooms 0 / 32 L M Nectarine -0.5 / 31 H H Okra 10.0 / 50 L M Olive 7.2 / 45 L M Onions (Dry) 0 / 32 VL L (Odor) Onions (Green) 0 / 32 VL M Orange (CA,AZ) 7.2 / 45 VL M Orange (FL,TX) 2.2 / 36 VL M Papaya 12.2 / 54 H H Paprika 10.0 / 50 L L Parsnip 0 / 32 VL L Parsley 0 / 32 VL H Passion Fruit 12.2 / 54 VH H Peach -0.5 / 31 H H Pear (Anjou,Bartlett/Bosc) 1.1 / 30 H H Pear (Prickley) 5.0 / 41 N L Peas 0 / 32 VL M Pepper (Bell) 10.0 / 50 L L Pepper (Chile) 10.0 / 50 L L Persian Melon 10.0 / 50 M H Persimmon (Fuyu) 10.0 / 50 L H Persimmon (Hachiya) 0.5 / 41 L H Pineapple 10.0 / 50 L L Pineapple (Guava) 5.0 / 41 M L Plantain 14.4 / 58 L H Plum/Prune -0.5 / 31 M H Pomegranate 5.0 / 41 L L Potato (Processing) 10.0 / 50 VL M (Sprouting) Potato (Seed) 4.4 / 40 VL M Potato (Table) 7.2 / 45 VL M Pumpkin 12.2 / 54 L L Quince -0.5 / 31 L H Radishes 0 / 32 VL L Red Beet 2.8 / 37 VL L Rambutan 12.2 / 54 H H Rhubard 0 / 32 VL L Rutabaga 0 / 32 VL L Sapota 12.2 / 54 VH H Spinach 0 / 32 VL H Squash (Hard Skin) 12.2 / 54 L L Squash (Soft Skin) 10.0 / 50 L M Squash (Summer) 7.2 / 45 L M Squash (Zucchini) 7.2 / 45 N N Star Fruit 8.9 / 48 L L Swede (Rhutabaga) 0 / 32 VL L Sweet Corn 0 / 32 VL L Sweet Potato 13.3 / 56 VL L Tamarillo 0 / 32 L M Tangerine 7.2 / 45 VL M Taro Root 7.2 / 45 N N Tomato (Mature/Green) 13.3 / 56 VL H Tomato (Brkr/Lt Pink) 10.0 / 50 M H Tree-Tomato 3.9 / 39 H M Turnip (Roots) 0 / 32 VL L Turnip (Greens) 0 / 32 VL H Watercress 0 / 32 VL H Watermelon 10,0 / 50 L H Yam 13.3 / 56 VL L Live Plants Cut Flowers (Carnations) 0 / 32 VL H (Sleepiness) Cut Flowers (Chrysanthemums) 0 / 32 VL H Cut Flowers (Gladioli) 2.2 / 36 VL H Cut Flowers (Roses) 0 / 32 VL H (Open Sooner) Potted Plants -2.8-18.3 / 27-65 VL H Nursery Stock -1.1-4.4 / 30-40 VL H (Slower Start) Christmas Trees 0 / 32 N N Flowers Bulbs (Bulbs/ 7.2-15 / 45-59 VL H Corms/Rhizomes/Tubers) 



*Ethylene* is a plant hormone that differs from other plant hormones in being a gas. It has the molecular structure: H2C=CH2 When fruits approach maturity, they release ethylene. Ethylene promotes the ripening of fruit. Among the many changes that ethylene causes is the destruction of chlorophyll. With the breakdown of chlorophyll, the red and/or yellow pigments in the cells of the fruit are unmasked and the fruit assumes its ripened color. 
How the role of ethylene was discovered.
As is so often the case in science, the discovery of the role of ethylene was made by accident. When first harvested, lemons are often too green to be acceptable in the market. In order to hasten the development of a uniform yellow color, lemon growers used to store newly-harvested lemons in sheds kept warm with kerosene stoves. When one grower tried a more modern heating system, he found that his lemons no longer turned yellow on time. Research soon found that the important factor in the ripening process was small amounts of ethylene gas given off by the burning kerosene in the heatersm
http://www.ultranet.com/~jkimball/BiologyPages/E/Ethylene.html 
*Discovery*


1901 Neljubow in St. Petersburg Russia:
Coal gas = illuminating gas in cities (gas lights) 
Causes triple response: dwarf stem, fat stem, agravitropism in stem in peas also leaf abscission in nearby trees 
Identified ethylene from the gas as the causative agent. (OLDEST IDENTIFIED GROWTH REGULATOR)​1910 *Oranges cause bananas to ripen prematurely (natural ethylene?) *

1934 Ethylene is a natural product (plant hormone?) 
*Forgotten for many years as possible hormone....* 
1959 Burg & Thimann rediscover old research and begin studies showing ethylene as possible hormone 


*What is ethylene **Synthesis:*

Methionine->S-adenosylmethionine->aminocyclopropanecarboxylic acid->ethylene 
Pathway elucidated completely in 1979 (Adams & S. F. Yang)
ACC synthase (usually limiting enzyme in path)
Ethylene Forming Enzyme (sometimes limiting, esp fruit senescence) ​*Degradation:*

Ethylene -> Ethylene oxide C2H4O -> oxalic acid HOOC-COOH -> 2 CO2 

Transport:Gas generally diffuses rapidly but not under waterlogging immersion.
ACC is transported in nonpolar way 

Adsorption on charcoal and KMnO4 (potassium permanganate) 
Ventilation important! 
Conjugation:ACC ---> Malonyl ACC--NOT STORAGE...irreversible 

Pool Size:1 uL/L (= 1 ppm) is active in most responses 

*Stress and IAA stimulate ethylene* biosynthesis at ACC synthase 
Receptors: Bind Ag+ ions and CO2 as well as C2H4 and contains Cu cofactor 
(IAA as we know as Rooting hormone)
*EFFECTS*


Fruit Ripening 
Abscission; leaf flower fruits (thinning, harvesting) 
Epinasty 
Triple Resonses 
Hook Closure Maintenance 
Initiates Germination in Grains 
Activates dormant buds (potatoes in storage) 
Stem elongation in deep-water rice 
Induces Flowering in Pineapple 
Promotes Female Expression in Flowers Flower and Leaf Senescence: Ag preventative (vase life)
http://koning.ecsu.ctstateu.edu/Plant_Physiology/ethylene.html 


Ethylene was used medically as a anesthetic in concentrations 

significantly greater than that found in a ripening room. However, ethylene is often targeted as the reason for difficulty in breathing in ripening rooms; what can affect some people is usually either:
a) Carbon Dioxide (CO2,) levels: CO2, is produced by the ripening fruit in the room and levels increase over time, or
b) Oxygen levels: The oxygen in the room when loaded is taken in by the ripening fruit. This sometimes will make breathing in a ripening room difficult. The increased CO2, and decreased oxygen levels are the main reasons for venting the ripening room.
It will permeate through produce cardboard shipping boxes, wood and even concrete walls.
While ethylene is invaluable due to its ability to initiate the ripening process in several fruits, it can also be very harmful to many fruits, vegetables, flowers, and plants by accelerating the aging process and decreasing the product quality and shelf life. The degree of damage depends upon the concentration of ethylene, length of exposure time, and product temperature. One of the following methods should be used to ensure that ethylene-sensitive produce is not exposed: a) Ethylene producing items (such as apples, avocados, bananas, melons, peaches, pears, and tomatoes) should be stored separately from ethylene-sensitive ones (broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, leafy greens, lettuce, etc.). Also, ethylene is emitted by engines. Propane, diesel, and gasoline powered engines all produce ethylene in amounts large enough to cause damage to the ethylene-sensitive produce items mentioned; b) Ventilate the storage area, preferably to the outside of the warehouse, on a continuous or regular basis to purge the air of any ethylene; c) Remove ethylene with ethylene absorbing filters. These have been proven in reducing and maintaining low ethylene levels. If ethylene damage is suspected, a quick and easy way to detect ethylene levels is with hand held sensor tubes. This will indicate if the above steps should be followed.
Ethylene is explosive at high temperatures. When using as directed the products of Catalytic Generators, reaching the explosive level is not possible. The explosive level is about 200 times greater than that found in ripening rooms. As a matter of fact, it would take 20 - 30 of the Easy-Ripe Generators on the highest setting in a one-load room to reach this level.
Ethylene was used historically as an important anesthetic until less flammable compounds were developed. It is a colorless gas with a sweet ether-like odor. As an anesthetic, it was used as a concentration of 85% with 15% oxygen. Ethylene is a hydrocarbon gas and quite flammable and explosive at concentrations above about 3%. Remember, a non-toxic anesthetic for humans at a concentration of 85% or higher, yet as a fruit ripening hormone,* ethylene gas is effective at 0.1 to 1 ppm*. One part of ethylene per million parts of air that's one cupful of ethylene gas in 62,000 gallons of air - is enough to promote the ripening process in fruits.
Using tomatoes as an example, the life of a tomato fruit begins with fertilization of the flower ovules. After fertilization, the young fruit goes through a short period of cell division which is then followed by a rapid period of growth as these cells enlarge. During the final stages of growth and development, the tomato fruit reaches its full size and is now mature. This period of growth and development, from fertilization to development of the mature fruit, requires about 45-55 days, depending on the cultivar and the season. During the growth and development period, there are many chemical and physical changes occurring that have an impact on fruit quality and ripening behavior after harvest. Ripening is the final stage of the maturation process when the fruit changes color, and develops the flavor, texture and aroma that makes up what we define as optimum eating quality. The biological agent that initiates this ripening process after the fruit is mature is naturally produced ethylene - this simple plant hormone described and understood over 40years ago. While there are other factors involved in this "triggering" of the ripening process by ethylene, it is essentially a universal ripening hormone. When this internal concentration of naturally produced ethylene increases to about 0.1 - 1.0 ppm, the ripening process is irreversibly initiated. The process may be glowed, but it cannot be reversed once it is truly under way. So, here is the key point: additional and externally applied ethylene, provided prior to the time that the naturally produced internal concentration reaches the required 0.1 - 1.0 ppm level, will trigger or initiate - "promote" if you will - this natural ripening process at an earlier time.
The additional externally applied ethylene (the "gassing" so frequently referred to in the popular press) merely accelerates the normal ripening process. Numerous studies have shown that there are no important biochemical, chemical, or physiological differences between fruit ripened where the naturally produced ethylene has been the triggering mechanism or where additionally externally applied ethylene has triggered the process in the mature but unripe fruit.
For example, tomato fruit are not and cannot be "artificially reddened" by ethylene. The normal tomato ripening process, which includes pigment changes - the loss of green chlorophyll and conversion of carotenoids into red lycopene pigments - can be accelerated and brought about earlier by externally applied ethylene, but this is a normal process. In fact, some of the components of nutritional quality, such as Vitamin C content, benefit because of the fact that the fruits will be consumed after a shorter time interval from harvest as a result of ethylene treatments and hence, the initial level will not have degraded as far as the longer, unaccelcratcd process. Ethylene is actually used commercially on only a few crops, including: (a) bananas, (b) for removing the green color from citrus fruits, (e) almost all honeydew melons, and (d) to a limited extent, with tomatoes.


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## Jester88 (Feb 9, 2009)

well done 

umm empty your inbox.... i thought of something you may like to hear dude.


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

another snippet
from: http://www.scribd.com/doc/6612723/All-About-Hemp
~ Growth Stimulants
The B-vitamins (1 ppm solution) increase the yield of hempseed and its fat content, but somewhat suppresses the growth of leaves, stems, and seed hulls. Potassium permanganate in weak solutions stimulates the development of cannabis in all its phases. Dilute camphor also stimulates plant growth. Vitamin C (1-5 parts in 10,000 water) has the same effect. The ripening of cannabis flowers can be accelerated by addition of a tablespoon of sugar per gallon of nutrient solution. Do not use this treatment during the initial stages of the flowering cycle, because flowering will be delayed instead. Auxigro, manufactured by the Auxein Corp. (Lansing, MI; www.auxein.com; US Patent 5,840,656) contains 4-aminobutyric acid, L-glutamic acid, etc.). It increases fertilizer efficiency severalfold and improves plant growth up to 50%. Nutrient accumulation also is increased dramatically. Triacontanol is a fatty alcohol found in many plants. It increases growth rates and yields up to 25%, and increases the protein content, even during darkness when plants usually are dormant. Triacontanol seems to enhance the growth of plants without increasing their consumption of nitrogen. The simplest way to use triacontanol is to plow under a crop of alfalfa, which contains relatively large amounts of the substance. Triacontanol is extracted from sunflower seeds or alfalfa by chloroform; filter and evaporate the solution to yield crude triacontanol. The dosage is 1 ppm in water. 
Carbon Dioxide
--- Plants utilize atmospheric carbon dioxide to supply their carbon. The current level of atmospheric CO2 is about 350 ppm. If the level of CO2
in a closed growing space decreases to below 200 ppm, growth will cease. Levels above 2% can be injurious to both plants and animals. When cannabis is cultivated indoors, the rate of growth and photosynthesis can be enhanced by increasing the concentration of carbon dioxide to about 0.2%. The effects are most influential in the second month of growth. The rate of growth can be increased about 50% by increasing the level of CO2 to about 700 ppm. If the level is increased to 1,500 ppm during the vegetative phase, the growth rate will increase up to 80%. The number of females also increases slightly under the influence of CO2 . When extra CO2 is supplied during the flowering phase, the flowers will mature about 2 weeks sooner, and they will increase in weight about 20%. To alculate the amount of CO2 required to enrich a growroom, first select the level of CO2 you desire (assuming 300 ppm atmospheric CO2 ). Multiply the cubic feet of the grow space with the corresponding factor (given below) to determine how many cubic feet of gas are needed to raise the level for each cycle of enrichment. The cycle is repeated as the plants absorb the gas or it is vented outdoors (necessarily when the room temperature rises to 85o
F). Commercially available equipment will do this automatically. For 1,000 ppm, factor (.0007) x cubic feet to determine the requisite volume of gas. 1,100 ppm = (.000; 1,200 ppm = (.0009); 1,300 ppm = (.0010); 1,400 ppm = (.0011); 1,500 ppm = (.0012). 
Gibberellin 
--- When seeds absorb water, the hormone gibberellin (gibberellic acid-A, GAA) appears in the embryo and activates the metabolism to initiate sprouting. GAA has been widely tested in applications to hemp. When applied to cannabis at a rate of 100 ppm in water for 2 months, GAA increases the thickness and internodal length of the stock. The terminal nodes are weak, branching is suppressed, and the roots develop poorly. Germination is stimulated by GAA, but leaf growth and the production of chlorophyll and cannabinoids are reduced proportionately. GAA treatment does not hasten the generative development of hemp, but does promote plant growth. The stem diameter increases about 250% over control plants, and the fresh weight of the stem increases 300%. Treated plants have a higher ratio of bark:wood. The number of fibers increases up to 100%. According to G. Davidyan, the greatest effect is achieved with 0.005-0.01% GAA applied before the buds form. R. Herich tested the histological reactions of hemp by soaking the seeds in 5 ppm GAA for 24 hours with these results: "The plants showed the following differences from untreated controls: decrease of stem thickness, less lignification, decreased bark development especially in lower parts of stems, decrease in number of secondary bast fibers, increase in number and size of primary bast fibers, and increased differentiation of parenchymatous pith tissue". 
(63)C.K. Atal also described the effect of GAA on hemp: "Gibberellin-treated plants showed a greater number of fibers as compared to controls. The individual fibers were larger in diameter, more lignified, and up to 10 times as long as the fibers from the untreated plants." 
(64)F. Yanishevskii studied the effect of GAA on the nitrogen metabolism of hemp: "Stem lengthening took place mainly by cell extension. Net weight even decreased somewhat. Chlorophyll concentration decreased noticeably... Plants treated with GAA contained less N than controls. GAA exerted a considerable influence on the N metabolism of hemp plants: in treated plants the amount of protein N decreased 2-fold, but, in contrast, the soluble forms of N increased markedly. Treatment with GAA had almost no effect on the content of N fractions of cell components (nuclei, plastids). Nucleic acid content decreased mainly owing to decrease in the amount of RNA. Accumulation of soluble forms of N under the influence of GAA would indicate that the introduction of nitrogenous fertilizers (as recommended by Witter and Bucovac) would hardly make up for the unfavorable effect of GAA on the N metabolism of hemp." 
(65)N. Yakushkina and L. Chuikova also tested the action of GAA and Indole-Acetic Acid (IAA, auxin) on hemp: "GAA intensified the growth of the plants, the average dry weight per plant, the photosynthesis rate, the sugar content (especially of the stem) and that of total N, and the respiration rate, but decreased the content of chlorophyll in the leaves. The separate application of IAA caused a decrease in the growth and yield of the plants, and a considerable increase in the chlorophyll content, but decreased the photosynthesis rate. The simultaneous application of GAA and IAA was accompanied by the highest increase in yield, but this addition of IAA did not exert any substantial influence on the physiological processes.
" (66 )GAA also increases the length of the growing season. GAA will inhibit the formation of flowers on Cannabis; it must not be used during the flowering phase of growth. GAA will accelerate the onset
of budding by about 7 days. Treatment of plants with 25 mg GAA/liter results in 80% of the plants being male. Female hemp usually undergoes sex reversal to a male expression, but few of the male plants produce female flowers. Thus, G. Davidyan and S. Kutuzova reported: "Gibberellin causes the formation of male flowers, containing fertile pollen, on genetically female plants." 
(67)V. Khryanin treated dioecious hemp with GAA (25 mg/liter) and produced monoecious feminized staminate hemp from the common pistillate form: "Gibberellin, as a hormone of the plant organism, probably depresses genes which participate in the formation of flowers which have been repressed. "Thus GAA can be used by breeders to develop monoecious cannabis from dioecious forms. Preliminary tests are necessary to determine the most effective concentration and best timing for each cultivar.
The effect of GAA is removed by abscisic acid (ABA), which will initiate flowering. Treatment of plants with ABA (10 mg/liter) results in all plants being female or bisexual. The ABA can be overcome by increasing the concentration of GAA.


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

gibberellic acid-A, GAA & Abscisic acid ABA - IS GOING INTO MIX !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Still undecided on where............... will get back to you.
-GROW EXPERIMENT DOSE & FEED #2
Which will be after the nxt harvest March 1st ish


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

MAKE YOUR OWN GAA:
Gibberellin is extracted from cucumber seeds, fresh cantelope seeds, dried corn kernels, and from pencil rod, lupine, and pinto beans. Soak 200 grams of powdered seeds in 110 ml of a mixture of acetone (10 parts), isopropyl alcohol (5 p), ethanol (2 p), and water (5 p). Filter the mush and rinse it with 20 ml acetone and 20 ml isopropyl alcohol. Combine the rinse and the mother liquor, then evaporate the solvent. Dissolve the gum in alkaline water for experimental use.


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## Greenisgold (Feb 9, 2009)

eza82 said:


> So you sparay at first sign of buds ? How many times and how much of it ? Sry if ive asked this -stoned
> 
> Cytokinin as kinetin
> Which are the adenine-type cytokinins that are synthesised in stems, leaves and roots.
> ...


Back in the OG days, there was a grower that turned me on to this product. I spray them once right when I see buds forming, or around 2 weeks into flowering. If I spray at the right time, I get incredible growth in regards to the whole plant as it seems to promote bud growth and vegetative growth as well. I have tried using it at later times, one time it seemed to really mess with the plant. The others it seemed to do nothing. I did side by side comparisons with ak47 and chronic and both of the pants I sprayed increased in size and had bigger buds at the end. But then again I did side by side with WW, sprayed them around 3 weeks of flower and the one I sprayed was stunted. So it's hit or miss. In other words, use at your own risk. I have not used any other hormones, but I got into it and read up on them like crazy at one time. I'm a firm believer in the benefits of calcium, LST and the fact that calcium is the carrier of auxins. I get incredible growth supplimenting with Ca when I grow using LST. I have done side by sides with this as well and each and every time the ca. plants were much healthier and bigger.
Same goes with using alfalfa in veg-this is something I will never NOT use as an amendment, but only in veg.
Peace and good work.


----------



## Anotheroldephart (Feb 9, 2009)

eza82 said:


> to fully understand.... I would never have dwarf probs, sick plants, always grow beyond its parents, yeild better every time...etc
> NOBODY TOLD ME THIS WOULD BE SO TECH!
> 
> *HELP WANTED*
> ...


Take a few seeds...stick'em in some dirt...add water...big budz...Oh how we deceive ourselves...*l*


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

Anotheroldephart said:


> Take a few seeds...stick'em in some dirt...add water...big budz...Oh how we deceive ourselves...*l*


????????????? So what your saying is DONT.... lol


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

ALL OF THIS INFORMATION SCATTERED THROUGH THIS THREAD I HAVE COMPILED ON THIS THREAD FOR REFFERENCE::

HORMONES/PGR`s/VITIMANS - RESEARCH THREAD ONLY.


----------



## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

SILICA:
*Why is silica so important for your plants?* 


Various research projects conducted over the past 40 years _(coupled with regular feedback from users of SilikaMajic)_ have shown that the presence of silica (SiO2) in plant tissue produces many beneficial side effects:

*+ Increased stem strength and rigidity* - once silica is taken up by the roots, it is deposited in the plant&#8217;s cell walls as a solid silica matrix equivalent to quartz. This structure produces stronger and more rigid cell walls and hence a &#8216;mechanically&#8217; stronger plant. This enables better leaf orientation for receiving light which in turn _enhances photosynthesis and growth rates._ 
*+ Improved healing of pruning wounds* - silica enables pruning wounds to heal more quickly and neatly. This property is especially beneficial in commercial cropping of plants such as tomato and cucumber where regular pruning threatens the plant's survival. 
*+ Increased fruit weight *- accumulation of silica in plant cells can result in higher fruit weight. 
*+ Increased leaf strength* - improved resistance to wilting, particularly noticeable during hot weather. *+ Increased tolerance to high salinity *- silica has been shown to reduce problems arising from nutrient toxicity (e.g. sodium, chloride) and/or imbalance. 


*Why silica additives are needed in hydroponics*

The silica (SiO2) content in the leaves (etc.) of 'soil grown' plants ranges from 1-10% of their dry weight. This silica is potentially supplied from both the feed water and the soil:





Feed water: Natural (i.e. uncontaminated) waters commonly contain around 5 mg/L soluble silica. Hence soil grown plants potentially enjoy a feed of soluble silica each time the plant is watered. 





Soil: Sand is composed largely of silica, therefore, the roots of soil grown plants are immersed in a potential "silica reservoir". Although this form of silica is very insoluble it does dissolve slowly - especially with alkaline waters. 


However, plants grown in hydroponic systems without soluble silica supplements, typically contain much less silica in their cells. This occurs because, unlike soil grown plants, silica is virtually absent at the root-zone:





Recycling systems: Once the plant consumes the silica present in the make-up water, no more silica is available. Of course if either rainwater or RO (reverse osmosis) water is used, no soluble silica is present. 





Inert mediums: Unlike 'soil', inert mediums are unable to yield silica. 
Research shows that the absence of silica in hydroponics can cause plant health to be less than optimum. 

*Note, silica cannot be included in concentrated nutrient formulations because stable silica solutions are by nature highly alkaline. It must therefore be added separately. 



*When to use Silica?*

Silica should be used from seed to harvest: Consistent with predictions based on silica&#8217;s general insolubility, electron microscopy and x-ray analysis both confirm that once deposited, silica can no longer be redistributed within the plant. Consequently to benefit all growing areas of the plant, silica must be present at all times in the nutrient solution.

HERE IS A Retail PRODUCT:













The &#8216;reactive&#8217; silica in SilikaMajic is extremely stable. This ensures SilikaMajic is able to deliver all the benefits of silica. Be aware that many other silica supplements deteriorate in the bottle** such that the silica becomes unavailable to plants.





*Commercial strength silica *(20% silica as reactive SiO2) - 0.2ml per litre produces 40mg/L reactive silica.​ 




*Totally soluble silica* - The silica is in the soluble/available form which ensures uptake by plant roots. This is a significant feature because clay products (powders) typically contain zero* silica that can be absorbed by roots. ​ 




*Optimized for ALL substrates *e.g. Coco-peat, soil, NFT, Rockwool, clay, perlite, etc.​ 




Available in 250ml, 1L, 5L & 20L.​ 
* As determined by the internationally recognised 'molybdosilicate' analytical method.
** Verified by being &#8216;milky&#8217;/turbid rather than clear liquids and will not dissolve when placed in the nutrient solution.​


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

Revised---- 
& includes silica dose as folia.

This is also a useable template for you to change to your own nute etc and print....


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## onenumcat (Feb 9, 2009)

you know, you can edit, and upload file, to your previous post..., just FYI

that sounds like some potent hormones!
hormones work differently or, possibly, not at all, on various different plants.
if you narrow your search down by genus you might have a more pertinent,
condensed, list.

I'd like to try just a few at once to see what the combined effect is, although,
by just increasing one hormone, the others will increase also, to catch up.
it would just be impossible to try them all at once. as I said before, I am utilizing ethylene during key stages of my grow. (well see how that works out, ha)

and you might create that plant from "the little shop of horrors"!
you don't want your weed to 'smoke' you! LOL


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

quote=onenumcat;you know, you can edit, and upload file, to your previous post..., just FYI

EDIT ability only last so long..... And I get lazy when Im stoned....lol just easy to quick reply, Also have done the CLEAN thread aswell......lol

that sounds like some potent hormones!
hormones work differently or, possibly, not at all, on various different plants.
TIMEING is everything..
i'd like to try just a few at once to see what the combined effect is, although,
by just increasing one hormone, the others will increase also, to catch up.
it would just be impossible to try them all at once.
and you might create that plant from "the little shop of horrors"!
you don't want your weed to 'smoke' you! LOL
LOL I would like to see someone try...I would assume it would be much like the human body and how it would react..My Dose schedual is starting small and going to change things around a bit then move on keeping the additives I think bring greatest value.With bolstering particular hormones you right it will enable the plant to produce other hormones at equal rate, as long as we dose when the plant is trying to naturally produce that particular hormone we should in theory (as long as feed and light are sufficient) grow giants.. in a scrog format we should be avle to grow `BIG BUD` type plant (no branchs) out of ANY strain


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## Greenisgold (Feb 9, 2009)

Silica is great, but be carefull using too much of it. I have found a happy medium of once every 3 feedings, and I use a product called silica blast.


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

What is the wieght difference between useing and not useing ??
Im sure it will be enough to valadate buying silica and make a dollar or two ?
Have you done a comparison ??
In agri industry its proven to produce 25-30% heavier fruit and flower..


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

Greenisgold said:


> So, I'm one week into flowering and I have 2 Super girl clones that are pretty much the same size except I train them. I will spray one with the tomato bloom spray and will leave the other alone. If you want I will post pics too see if this time around I get the timing right. Let me know


Please... Give use a little grow journal..... showing your plant with out and your plant with..... Put a ruler or tape measure in back ground and place the camera in EXACTLY the same spot each time.... Take a photo once a week.
Thanx GREENI!


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## Anotheroldephart (Feb 9, 2009)

eza82 said:


> Please... Give use a little grow journal..... showing your plant with out and your plant with..... Put a ruler or tape measure in back ground and place the camera in EXACTLY the same spot each time.... Take a photo once a week.
> Thanx GREENI!



Oh great...something ELSE to try..Ya know eza..there are times, that having to much knowledge leads to to many questions..now YOU my friend...have created more for me*walking away..muttering..searching pockets for smoking material*


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

Anotheroldephart said:


> Oh great...something ELSE to try..Ya know eza..there are times, that having to much knowledge leads to to many questions..now YOU my friend...have created more for me*walking away..muttering..searching pockets for smoking material*


I was just looking for something intresting to do one afternoon.....months ago, Ive been of the the theory LESS IS BEST for years. Now I see that I have shorted myself...... Co2 is great but can raise suspision where i live to re fill all the time..... So I looked into the Agri industry, mostly HEMP farming.... And the shit they give there plants are amazing, and I figure why not..... I never dreamt it would turn into like a school project.....lol


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## Anotheroldephart (Feb 9, 2009)

eza82 said:


> I was just looking for something intresting to do one afternoon.....months ago, Ive been of the the theory LESS IS BEST for years. Now I see that I have shorted myself...... Co2 is great but can raise suspision where i live to re fill all the time..... So I looked into the Agri industry, mostly HEMP farming.... And the shit they give there plants are amazing, and I figure why not..... I never dreamt it would turn into like a school project.....lol


There are several ways to obtain co2 fills where no suspicion will attach...Saltwater aquarium..for the coral and plants... Welding as a shield gas...


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

Anotheroldephart said:


> There are several ways to obtain co2 fills where no suspicion will attach...Saltwater aquarium..for the coral and plants... Welding as a shield gas...


At the levels I would need ... you would still require a Aus Business Number to obtain. Sure I can get one or two,,, but consistant over a year or two.... I would have to set up shelf company for FISH BREEDER or WELDER..... Its not easy. It can be done.....
I would rather buy plant hormones off the internet, that I dont have to move..............lol


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## Anotheroldephart (Feb 9, 2009)

I don't know the levels, but I've devised a system to feed the plants, not the room tokepp costs down. As to businesses..I've got tax # for 3 not that they make money but..... I'm also looking into the feasability of creating a co2 concentrator..from the atmosphere, much like those for o2 for med patients..Got a contact with a well known gases tranfers engineer, not that he's aware of WHY I'm asking what I'm asking...


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

creating a co2 concentrator intresting concept......... I would put that in....... renewable is always good.....


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## Anotheroldephart (Feb 9, 2009)

Work wioth me, we'll create it, I'll run N.A. and EU, you take the rest..We'll get stoned..and rich...and stoned...."ere


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

LOL......sounds good in theory..... I have another RIU brother has got me involved with DNA testing for MJ in the early stages........
So yer sure..... But I was looking at ethlyene as my next atmospheric conditioner....
Which is easy and renewable.... Co2 is important but exploring other ave`s.


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## Anotheroldephart (Feb 9, 2009)

eza82 said:


> LOL......sounds good in theory..... I have another RIU brother has got me involved with DNA testing for MJ in the early stages........
> So yer sure..... But I was looking at ethlyene as my next atmospheric conditioner....
> Which is easy and renewable.... Carbon is important but exploring other ave`s.


www.crossdns.com/ways-to-*feminize*-*cannabis*-*seeds*.html 
btdt...


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

Anotheroldephart said:


> www.crossdns.com/ways-to-*feminize*-*cannabis*-*seeds*.html
> btdt...


??????????? ANSTERDAM SHOPPING ?? - 
heaps of different natural ethylene souces..... alot of people just chuck a banana peel in a ziplock with seeds to get same effect....


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## Anotheroldephart (Feb 9, 2009)

eza82 said:


> ??????????? ANSTERDAM SHOPPING ?? -
> heaps of different natural ethylene souces..... alot of people just chuck a banana peel in a ziplock with seeds to get same effect....


I'd heard and tried when the plants were 2 weeks old.


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## eza82 (Feb 9, 2009)

Anotheroldephart said:


> I'd heard and tried when the plants were 2 weeks old.


The shopping site?? or ethylene ?? Ethylene is proven... how did you apply and at what dose for youe 2 wk olds? With what result???


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## Anotheroldephart (Feb 9, 2009)

eza82 said:


> The shopping site?? or ethylene ?? Ethylene is proven... how did you apply and at what dose for youe 2 wk olds? With what result???


A whole nanner, and not definitive, got gnats...I'm trying it when I start reg seeds. I'm using fem only when I can.


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## eza82 (Feb 10, 2009)

I was thinking a bucket of banana and orange skins.......... monitor the output (somehow) then apply... at late flower...


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## eza82 (Feb 10, 2009)

Any ideas on home made ethylene monitor ? Or cheap....


----------



## eza82 (Feb 10, 2009)

to answer my own question 





$350.00
www.environmentalsensors.com 

.






*





[*]Easy to Use
[*]Internal Pump
[*]Rechargeable Battery
[*]Short and Long Term Averaging
[*]Internal Memory (Data Logging)*
*




*
*The Z-100XP Ethylene Oxide Monitor is a portable desktop instrument which measures ethylene oxide concentration in air with a resolution of 0.1 ppm and a range 0-20 ppm. The LCD display updates the concentration (in ppm) every 10 seconds. The instrument also computes a 15 minute average and a Time Weighted Average (updated hourly for up to 8 hours). These values can be viewed anytime during the measurement procedure. When combined with the extendable probe (an optional accessory) the internal pump makes it possible to sample from hard to reach areas or confined spaces. *

*With the data logging feature enabled, the meter will store all of the exposure points for each use. The maximum storage capacity is 14,400 data points. This is the equivolent of 5 seperate 8 hour uses. The data is easily uploaded to PC using components available within the Microsoft Windows Operating System or the terminal software included with the instrument. *

*




*
*The sensing element of the instrument is an electrochemical cell. The cell is a four-electrode type, which contains a working and an active auxiliary electrode. The signal from the auxiliary electrode is used for temperature compensation and to improve the selectivity of the entire sensor. The sensors response is linear with the concentration of ethylene oxide in air.*

*VS*



$249.75
Air Quality Monitor: Measures CO2 0~3,000ppm & Temperature 32° to 122°F (CDM1060) Wall or Desk Mount
CDM1060





Click to enlarge The CDM1060 is a portable, accurate handheld CO2 monitor. In addition to measuring the CO2 concentration, this device can also measure the ambient temperature. It uses NDIR (non-dispersive infrared) technology to improve the long term stability.
*Features:*

Sample Method - Diffusion or flow through (50 ~200 ml/min)
Independent CO2 and Temperature readings
Alarm will sound at 1000ppm ASHRAE limit (can be disabled)
Calculates and Displays Ventilation Rates
Min/Max mode
IR-SoC technology
Data logger that can record up to 24 hours of data (at one log every 30 minutes)
Portable CO2 monitor
Stable NDIR sensor for CO2 detection
Ensure Indoor Air Quality
RJ45 socket connector digital output
Adjustable setting parameters


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## Anotheroldephart (Feb 10, 2009)

eza82 said:


> Any ideas on home made ethylene monitor ? Or cheap....


Not off hand, but i'll put it to the "brain trust" today and get back to you..


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## eza82 (Feb 10, 2009)

Those ethylene tags for fruit process works in confined space also used to indicate levels in long distance shipping of fruit..... But only will indicate once reachs certin level..........?


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## ProfessorMembrane (Feb 10, 2009)

You could use a variation on the Yeast Bucket CO2 production method to produce ethylene gas from natural sources, but you'll need to profile the micro-organisms that are chiefly responsible for breaking up the bananas or oranges or what have you so that you can attempt to make your bucket a suitable environment for them. A ppm monitor such as the one you displayed could be rigged to a regulator which would allow the gas in the bucket to escape at controlled intervals.


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## eza82 (Feb 10, 2009)

This looks to be the most even applicator I have found. _ Will tial a bucket with isolated plant, use this on the girls at WK 3&4 of flower.






Click to enlarge





THE WHAT:
Sensa-Spray is guaranteed to increase the number of female flowers on your plants and decrease the number of male flowers! Sensa-Spray is a fantastic new hormonal stimulant applied as a foliar spray in the mid-life of the plant. Sensa-Spray comes as a concentrate which you dilute, put into a standard plant mister and spray your leaves at the proper time in its life cycle. Sensa-Spray works by surrounding your plants in a *gaseous female hormone atmosphere*. This incites your plants to produce supranormal levels of its own female hormones resulting in more female and less male flowers.The *active ingredient in Sensa-Spray is ethylene*, which a normal female plant would produce on its own. The reaction to an external application of this natural hormone is to shove the plant's hormonal consciousness in the feminine direction regardless of inherent genetics.
Whether the plant was a natural male or female doesn't matter, the plant now responds to such treatment by producing its own elevated levels of ethylene. 
This may seem odd, but reallly isn't since all plants have the genetic machinery to create these hormones on their own. The only difference between males and females is the degree of genetic repression in allowing it to happen. Inherent females are enhanced, inherent males are sexually reversed. Hormonal inertia in the feminine direction continues until the time you harvest. 
Sensa-Spray is used at that time in the plant's life when it is still sexually uncommited. 
For indooor growers, this means before any change to the shorter light cycles. For outdoor growers, this means a few weeks prior to that time of year when you are first able to determine the sex of your plants. Sensa-Spray will redirect the plant energy away from vegetative growth and into the formation of vegetative female sex organs. Sensa-Spray is a unique product. It does not contain gibberellins, naphthoxyacetic acids, nor any other standard commercially available chemicals you are likely to encounter. 

What Sensa-Spray does contain is a compound which decomposes after dilution to yield ethylene in the proper and exact concentration to incite your plant towards feminization. And since it does decompose after it has done its job, Sensa-Spray is absolutely safe, both to the plant and to you. Makes 2 gallons of foliar spray.
The reason for TIMEING will be to induce further female pitals, and over all size & wieght of flower. Increasing the ability to produce tric`s.


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## onenumcat (Feb 10, 2009)

eza82 said:


> At the levels I would need ... you would still require a Aus Business Number to obtain. Sure I can get one or two,,, but consistant over a year or two.... I would have to set up shelf company for FISH BREEDER or WELDER..... Its not easy. It can be done.....
> I would rather buy plant hormones off the internet, that I dont have to move..............lol


nooooooo, you just get a co2 generator, then you only need to purchase propane...no one ever questions that...my grandpa's truck ran on propane.


----------



## onenumcat (Feb 10, 2009)

ProfessorMembrane said:


> You could use a variation on the Yeast Bucket CO2 production method to produce ethylene gas from natural sources, but you'll need to profile the micro-organisms that are chiefly responsible for breaking up the bananas or oranges or what have you so that you can attempt to make your bucket a suitable environment for them. A ppm monitor such as the one you displayed could be rigged to a regulator which would allow the gas in the bucket to escape at controlled intervals.


this is a chemical reaction, not caused by organisms...like oxidation of metal, I believe.


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## eza82 (Feb 10, 2009)

ProfessorMembrane said:


> You could use a variation on the Yeast Bucket CO2 production method to produce ethylene gas from natural sources, but you'll need to profile the micro-organisms that are chiefly responsible for breaking up the bananas or oranges or what have you so that you can attempt to make your bucket a suitable environment for them. A ppm monitor such as the one you displayed could be rigged to a regulator which would allow the gas in the bucket to escape at controlled intervals.


For sure thats what we mentioned early Prof. a bucket with a few skins.. I would probably make it a two stage with a storage capacity



eza82 said:


> works by surrounding your plants in a *gaseous female hormone atmosphere*. This incites your plants to produce supranormal levels of its own female hormones resulting in more female and less male flowers.The *active ingredient in Sensa-Spray is ethylene*, which a normal female plant would produce on its own. .


....it would be safe to say that ethylene C2H4 should be in high quantities, all the time to ensure flower ? So with seed based grows ethylene C2H4 should be present and accounted for to ensure Female. 
C2H4 is something not really talked about much in pot ???????....
And a Combination with NAA (hormone) you cant really go wrong..... Bigger better fatter flowers from exsisting females....... & ALL FEMALES from seed....that mature quicker ????!!!!!!!!!!!


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## eza82 (Feb 10, 2009)

onenumcat said:


> this is a chemical reaction, not caused by organisms...like oxidation of metal, I believe.


What the biological break down of the skins ??? It would be like a compost heap....... which would produce c2h4 (the gas) -its basiclly like a bactirea fart.....which produces methane. except its plant matter & c2h4.


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## eza82 (Feb 10, 2009)

This is a suggested use in mass scale:
APPLICATION SUGGESTIONS [email protected] FOR BANANA
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/catalyticgenerators/bananacc.pdf



Apply ethylene for a minimum of 24 hours during the initial phase of the ripening cycle. We recommend 100-150 PPM. To achieve this, the generator setting will depend on the size of the ripening room. 

1500 PPM - 2500 cubic feet.
2500 PPM - 5000 cubic feet.
5000 PPM- 7500 cubic feet.
7500 PPM - 10000+ cubic feet.
_Please note that all rooms vary in terms of how air-tight they are, so if more precise PPM determination is required, air testing for ethylene PPM levels is recommended._
RETAIL PRODUCT:
If using a *Sure-Ripe®* generator (water/mix to gas genarator), this unit will convert 1 US quart of Ethy-Gen® II to ethylene in approximately 16-20 hours. This will be enough ethylene for 1 ripening cycle depending on the size and condition of the room.


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## onenumcat (Feb 10, 2009)

eza82 said:


> What the biological break down of the skins ??? It would be like a compost heap....... which would produce c2h4 (the gas) - its basiclly bactirea fart.....


no, it isn't. it's a hormone, a chemical, in this case, a gaseous compound...didn't you read your own research??

if you sterilize a leaf and vacuum pack it, say in a plastic bag, in theory, if all the bacteria were killed, it would be preserved forever. if you did the same thing to a banana rind, the bag would expand, until it burst, because a little ethylene causes more to be produces, exponentially. it's a chemical process, not caused by organisms...right??


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## eza82 (Feb 10, 2009)

onenumcat said:


> no, it isn't. it's a hormone, a chemical, in this case, a gaseous compound...didn't you read your own research??
> 
> if you sterilize a leaf and vacuum pack it, say in a plastic bag, in theory, if all the bacteria were killed, it would be preserved forever. if you did the same thing to a banana rind, the bag would expand, until it burst, because a little ethylene causes more to be produces, exponentially. it's a chemical process, not caused by organisms...right??


gas (C2H4) is an odorless, colorless gas exists in nature ( IN PLANT CELLS ) and is also created by man-made sources. 
(Plants collect from atmosphere and store useing with in the life cycle to either ripen fruit or induce flowering, etc, a late stages of plant maturity )

=Which inturn what we are talking about is the break down right?? The plant stores the c2h4 and releases it on break down - hense its like fart, its the gas ecasping from the cells within the plant... in this case the oranges and banana skins happen to store a shit load....
Catalytic trigger essentially....................


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## eza82 (Feb 10, 2009)

HERE IS A THOERY: THICKER BUDS/ maturity peak
The reason for the MJ plant to kill off big fan leaves in late flower is(in part) to produce c2h4 ???? To aid in the maturity of the flower & life cycle of the plant ????


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## onenumcat (Feb 10, 2009)

eza82 said:


> gas (C2H4) is an odorless, colorless gas exists in nature ( IN PLANT CELLS ) and is also created by man-made sources.
> (Plants collect from atmosphere and store useing with in the life cycle to either ripen fruit or induce flowering, etc )
> 
> =Which inturn what we are talking about is the break down right?? The plant stores the c2h4 and releases it on break down - hense its like fart, its the gas ecasping from the cells within the plant... in this case the oranges and banana skins happen to store a shit load....


uh, you didn't say that before...I quoted you. you said bacteria, but spelled it wrong. I didn't alter the quote. then you went back, after my post, and changed it to '...plant matter...' that's not fair to say I'm wrong, then go change your post so _you're_ right...
I left you a link to my journal...perhaps you didn't visit...no comments from you there...I've been utilizing ethylene since my girls were seed. and...blah, blah, blah...it's all in my journal. have a peek.
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/145957-5-strains-medi-bud-thc.html

_My_ goal is only to get all females, minus the 3 feminized, out of 26 plants, soon to be 25, I think. I'm not concerned with growth rate or other hormones atm.


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## onenumcat (Feb 10, 2009)

eza82 said:


> ...hense its like fart, its the gas ecasping from the cells within the plant...


no, it's not like a 'fart' from any organism...a fart is a waste byproduct...hormones are not waste. that's like saying blood is like shit...


----------



## eza82 (Feb 10, 2009)

onenumcat said:


> no, it's not like a 'fart' from any organism...a fart is a waste byproduct...hormones are not waste. that's like saying blood is like shit...


 
?????????????????????/ Sorry mate Im not arguing, Its just an example..... its just a gas escaping, like methane escaps form me if I died (another example)!!!!!!! lol

The fruit dies it farts all of its C2H4 out,, sry champ it sits with me........ excreets, pushs out, leaks,escapes or farts, i like farts! lol:


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## onenumcat (Feb 10, 2009)

uh huh.....


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## eza82 (Feb 10, 2009)

eza82 said:


> here is a thoery: Thicker buds / maturity peak
> the reason for the mj plant to kill off big fan leaves in late flower (in part) is to produce c2h4 ???? To aid in the maturity of the flower & life cycle of the plant ????


 
what do you think?


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## ProfessorMembrane (Feb 10, 2009)

If the process does not in fact require organic activity then the process of obtaining Ethylene would be even cleaner and easier. You could sterilize a large number of ethylene rich materials & then place them in the same setup, the result would be the ethylene without other byproduct gasses produced by decomposition like methane.


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## eza82 (Feb 11, 2009)

ProfessorMembrane said:


> If the process does not in fact require organic activity then the process of obtaining Ethylene would be even cleaner and easier. You could sterilize a large number of ethylene rich materials & then place them in the same setup, the result would be the ethylene without other byproduct gasses produced by decomposition like methane.


?? Not sure we could sterilize a banana peel or orange peel..... can we, and decomp is going to happen regardless i thought... its just to what degree, and considering we need it to decomp to release the c2h4?!


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## ProfessorMembrane (Feb 11, 2009)

eza82 said:


> ?? Not sure we could sterilize a banana peel or orange peel..... can we, and decomp is going to happen regardless i thought... its just to what degree, and considering we need it to decomp to release the c2h4?!


 He was claiming they would produce the gas without actual decomposition. A simple method for sterilization would be Pasteurization, heating the material in a 175 F oven for an hour or so in a thin layer.


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## Anotheroldephart (Feb 11, 2009)

eza82 said:


> ?????????????????????/ Sorry mate Im not arguing, Its just an example..... its just a gas escaping, like methane escaps form me if I died (another example)!!!!!!! lol
> 
> The fruit dies it farts all of its C2H4 out,, sry champ it sits with me........ excreets, pushs out, leaks,escapes or farts, i like farts! lol:


*lol*I alway thought you were a fart smeller...um smart feller*snicker*


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## eza82 (Feb 11, 2009)

ProfessorMembrane said:


> He was claiming they would produce the gas without actual decomposition. A simple method for sterilization would be Pasteurization, heating the material in a 175 F oven for an hour or so in a thin layer.


That would defeat the purpose, Thinking that the ethylene would have been cooked out of it????


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## eza82 (Feb 11, 2009)

anotheroldephart said:


> *lol*i alway thought you were a fart smeller...um smart feller*snicker*


lol..........


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## Jester88 (Feb 11, 2009)

would a condenser work???? if so heat it in a flask and condense the gas that comes out..


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## eza82 (Feb 11, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> would a condenser work???? if so heat it in a flask and condense the gas that comes out..
> 
> good luck getting the eauipment tho maybe if someone decides to test the theory just using a big light globe in place as a single neck flask should suffice... and we we end up with a resinous ball of burnt shit that could be diluted put on plants.... or smoked
> maybe even hot water it will help pull it out of the plant matter and evaporate faster than the actual water in the mix
> this post will be getting edited soon ppl


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted on PM`s
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by *Jester88* - we should use female plants to try extract some goodness....

_ehy it would help a bit i reckon.... _
_your fems have extra hormones in them anyway so it would be a more concentrate if one wqas useing hormones on the grow before the blend???_
_EZA82_
I think I would apply in a big MIX (NAA, PHOS, Ethylene & plant matter extract)...... all at once over I think 4 doses in small amounts... Wks 3&4 during development, and the ;Turn of lights and the following week........................

If process could include ethylene then we Have all factors that I know of that help/aid in female hormone production..... as well as having the REAL hormone present.....

I want 30% profit for my help.. it was your idea...... make it 35% with the input of NAA & Ethylene(they were not my ideas just useing them)....
JESTER
LOLyeah no probs man  

JESTER
im kinda interested now.. also think about my technique ive listed on your thread maybe it could be applied here to get some concentrates from actual marijuana plants.... im thinking it would be good to stick to another method rather than those used to extract other things  safer and hastle free besides who wants to blow themselves up just to smke some weed lol
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EZA82
If you are talkin about our MAJIC juice..... Another great idea.... considering most of the compounds we are looking to trap are probably in the steam.............
This would prabaly have the greatest efficency in extaction......... At THE WORST CASE SENARIO it will be good FERTZ!
I want to know is there an EC level in the water when you make ICE hash? If so we could be onto a cheap fert/hormone for MJ!


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## Jester88 (Feb 11, 2009)

dammit ya quoted me now i cant delete it lol. oh well ya get that...


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## Anotheroldephart (Feb 11, 2009)

Would raising the temps high alter the chemical makeup of the end product? What about just increasing temp just enough to raise humidity levels? That could pull out the desired ingredients, without any harmful chemical by products?


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## eza82 (Feb 11, 2009)

Anotheroldephart said:


> Would raising the temps high alter the chemical makeup of the end product? What about just increasing temp just enough to raise humidity levels? That could pull out the desired ingredients, without any harmful chemical by products?


mmmmmmmm intresting point... Ill research the flash point & evap temps of ethylene, phos and NAA.

Humidifier will that extract compounds out of plant material.... ??
Im not a science geek so I dont really know what we would use to do this!
I thought boiling the material... but I think you may be right in saying that it will destroy compounds just hoe many ?? Maybey done on a low boil temp or simmer over a 48hr period ?????


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## Anotheroldephart (Feb 11, 2009)

What about a solar disrillery? Easy to make...bottle..tubing..nother bottle..sun..Bottle with suff in it in sun..tubing to run out of the sun..


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## Jester88 (Feb 11, 2009)

hmmmmmmmmmmm


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## eza82 (Feb 11, 2009)

*Extraction of chemicals from plants*

----------------------------------------------------

*Alkaloid Extraction*


The method I use is a general one - I copied it from one used by some scientists to extract mescaline from peyote, but I have since seen close variations used on many plants. This procedure is followed whenever a plant is studied for its alkaloids. 

A few ingredients and bits of equipment are necessary. I am a chemist, and have my own chemistry set. I have considered manufacture, but I find that there are enough interesting things to do just extracting natural compounds, which is much easier, indeed, possible in the home. 
*You will need:* 

A few flasks, glass containers, etc. of suitable sizes, depending on how large a volume you are playing with.
A separating funnel is almost essential - this could be tricky to get without a little effort. If you don't know, it is an inverted conical flask with a hole at the top to pour stuff in, and a tap at the bottom to let the stuff out accurately. It is used for separating immiscible layers.
A vacuum filtration apparatus would be very useful; I did have a bodgy one rigged up myself, but it was always difficult to use. Some kind of still, though, is pretty important to have, although conceivably for a once off you could get by without it, if you don't mind breathing in a lot of solvent.
As far as a still goes it is to recover solvent, and leave goodness as a residue at the bottom. I use a bit of quickfit I nicked: a round bottom flask, short column, thermometer on top, and a small condenser... takes forever, but don't expect to follow this procedure in anything under a day. 
*Other bits and pieces:* 
A filtre of some sort is a necessity; preferably a good one, with a vacuum pump if you are filtring gluggy stuff (cactus is the worst, sticky goo, e.g., other things like seeds and bark are better). People have been known to use such devices as coffee filtres, t-shirts, tins with holes in the bottom (as a filtre press) and so on. Whatever you can scrounge. A lab buchner funnel, sidearm flask, and venturi pump are ideal. All this stuff is standard in any chemical lab, regardless of discipline. 
*Chemicals necessary:* 

The paydirt (obviously)
Some solvents: methanol (lots), and a non polar solvent. Some people use ether - this is dangerous and doesn't dissolve everything. Your best bet is probably something chlorinated - I use dichloromethane, although chloroform will do (don't breath too much - it is fun at first, but ends up making you feel ill). Drycleaning fluid... petrol... I don't know what you have access to. Dichloromethane is good because it is non-toxic, volatile, and a good solvent. It has a major drawback: separation is often very difficult once you have placed your gluggy plant muck in there. The shot is to use large quantities of everything, and be patient.
You will also need an acid (Hydrogen chloride is good)
and a base/alkali (Sodium hydroxide is good - that way, if you stuff up, you end up synthesizing salt instead of something nasty.)
Also useful: acid/base indicator paper, boiling chips (porcelain grains) and activated charcoal - see local chemist.
The idea is this: Most fun compounds (the only exception is maybe THC, and alcohol if you count that) are basic - they contain nitrogen. So: in general, if you react them with hydrochloric acid, they form a water soluble chloride. If you react them with dilute base in the aqueous phase, they go back to being a base, which is insoluble in water, but soluble in organic non-polar solvents (like CH2Cl2). So, the theory is, that only a base will go from water to solvent and back to water etc. when changed from acidic to basic and back to acidic. This gives you a way of removing all the other crap which is not alkaloid from a sample. That is the theory. When I do this, if I can get down to some brown or green sludge that I can throw down or smoke, I am happy with a good days work. Ideally, you should end up with lovely white crystals, but I think that would require a lot of time and effort, and indeed a considerable loss of product in the process. 
*Procedure:* 

Get your stuff.
Dry it as much as possible - this makes life easier later on. You will never get all the water out, but too bad.
Chop it up as fine as possible: a blender comes in handy. You may wish to chop then dry. A word of caution: try to avoid exposing your stuff to excessive heat. I dry in low heat oven. Heat and air destroy good compounds from upwards of 100 degs C. All this bit will depend on exactly what you are extracting.
Once it is finely divided - powdered if possible, put it in a big container, and cover it with methanol. Alternatives to methanol here are ethanol (not as good) and acetone (good solvent - rips the crap out of anything, but is more reactive - can react with your actives).
Now, depending on what your stuff is, you have to let the methanol have time to remove it all. This is best done by leaving in a quiet warm place for a few days, even up to a week, and shaking it occasionally so it is mixed. Some papers recommend solvent extraction (soxhlet apparatus) and refluxing at the boiling point of the methanol (80 degs or so - I can't remember). I usually just rely on time to get the good stuff out. When you are ready (early in the morning), filtre the muck, to give you methanol+dissolved brown gunk, and a residue soaked with methanol. The residue still contains a lot of good stuff, so soak again for an hour, and repeat, and do a third time if you are feeling generous (3 is the magic number in extraction work). 

When you are done, there is another thing you can do finally, if desired: depending on what your stuff is, mix it up with dilute hydrochloric acid, 1M is appropriate. let stand for an hour, then filtre (this may be very difficult) That will get the last of the alkaloids out of the substrate. 
You now have a methanol-plant stuff mixture, and a dilute HCL-plant stuff mixture, if you bothered to do that part. 
Evaporate the methanol, to leave a small amount of goo. This will contain water, a bit of methanol, and all kinds of resins and muck, and if you are lucky, the alkaloids. 
If a very quick and crude extraction was all that was desired, then after stripping the last of the methanol with vacuum if possible, this residue could be smoked, eaten or whathaveyou. I leave that to your discretion. However, if a cleaner product is desired, the double layer extraction will need to be performed. 
Combine the evaporated methanol gunge with the hydrochloric acid filtrate if you have any. If you don't then mix the methanol stuff with an excess of dilute (1M) HCl. Feel free to filtre again at this point. Anything of marginal solubility here is no good to you. Get the stuff as clean as possible. Boiling with activated charcoal is another useful trick for removing gunge. Just boil it up, and filter off the charcoal for a cleaner brew. 
You should now have an acid aqueous solution of alkaloids and water solubles from the plant. 
Take your acidic solution, and basify. This is done by mixing in dilute sodium hydroxide (I use up to 5M to save on total volume. Be careful with concentrated NaOH - apart from eating skin, it eats alkaloids) As you mix in the NaOH, you will see swirls of white precipitate form and redissolve. Continue until the white swirls stay, and until the solution is quite cloudy. Indicator paper is necessary to see that the solution is basic. If you can't get indicator paper, you can make an indicator by boiling up some purple flowers. The dyes in most flowers go bright red in acid, and green in strong alkali. Just a drop of dye and a drop of mixture should tell you what is acid or base. 
The white precipitate is the alkaloids. The more the better. 
Next, add equal volume of non-polar solvent (dichloromethane) to the mix. Place in separating funnel, and shake. Separate. This may be very difficult or slow. Adding more solvent, more basic water, etc. may help. Adding lots of salt to the water layer will help break an emulsion. Ideally you want to do this step 3 times - to extract as much as possible from the water layer into the organic. I find this part very difficult, and you have to accept that you will lose quite a lot of material here. It is, however probably easier with some plants that others: cactus is very difficult, barks and seeds would be easier. Use plenty of salt, and agitate to separate. 
When you have finished extraction, chuck the basic water layer. The solvent layer is kept, and can be backwashed with salty water for a cleaner mixture. 
The solvent can now be dried, (using salt or some dry powder, the filtred) (I don't usually bother with this - the old hairdryer at the end can remove some last solvent and water) then strip the solvent in a vacuum to get your final product - some kind of syrup could be expected. This is super concentrated, but may only be half the strength of the original. e.g. put in enough for 10 doses of morning glory seeds, get back 5 doses or more of concentrated alkaloids. 
If it is desired to take the process still further, you can do the obvious thing - mix your solvent layer with dilute acid again and extract back into water. Acid layer could be evaporated under vacuum to give salts of alkaloids. Alternatively, if the organic layer were scrupulously dry, bases could be salted out with some organic acid - a tartrate, oxalate could be formed. I have never bothered with such things - you would need a lot of pure extract to be bothered. The acid-base extraction process can be continued as many times as is desired. If a truly pure product is desired, the only way to go from here is chromatography. I have never used this at home, and wouldn't think it was worth the trouble, but there will be papers available on what was used for a particular extraction case. 

------------------------------------------------------------------
REF: http://users.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/Extraction/


An introduction to alkaloid extraction
ALL FUCKING GOOD READS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Extraction of LSA from Morning Glory & Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds 
Extraction of mescaline from San Pedro and Peyote cacti 
Another mescaline extraction, from the Journal of the American Chemical Society 
Extraction of DMT from _Acacia maidenii_ 
Extraction of psilocybin/psilocin from magic mushrooms 
Extraction of harmine &c from [URL="http://users.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/Plants/Peganum/harmala.html"]Peganum harmala seeds[/URL] 
Extracting Myristicin & Safrole from Nutmeg 
Extracting THC from _Cannabis_. 
See also: 






The Psychedelic Kitchen Chemistry Guide.





Common Equivalent Weights and Measures convert from bushels to liters, drams to grams, grains to milligrams, &c.





Chemical Separations -- Learn what you need to know about distillation, extraction, and chromatography with these pages from a course at the University of Akron.


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## Jester88 (Feb 11, 2009)

well looks like i was right  

yaaaaaaaaaay.....


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## eza82 (Feb 11, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> well looks like i was right
> 
> yaaaaaaaaaay.....


Your not just a pretty face after all ( well avatar) .............. 

Read the one on DMT funny shit the effects.....Here is a fraction
" I think I was temporarily blinded, and found myself on the ground grasping my friend, and coughing for air, as I watched all of my surroundings fragment into small pieces divided by lightning bolts, and feeling all the air in the universe escape through the holes"


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## Jester88 (Feb 11, 2009)

i guess so.... i was wrong in one way tho tho maybe chemical extraction may be the way to go... i just figured better to stay away from the flammable's if possible


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## Anotheroldephart (Feb 11, 2009)

ebay has a jag of lab gear...


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## eza82 (Feb 11, 2009)

Extraction and Purification of Various Organic Compounds in Selected Medicinal Plants 
of Kotli Sattian, District Rawalpindi, Pakistan​ Muhammad Gulfraz*, Abdul Waheed**, Sajid Mehmood*and Munazza Ihtisham* 
*Department of Biochemistry, ** Department of Botany
University of Arid Agriculture, Rawalpindi, Pakistan
*Issued **6 January 2006*


*ABSTRACT*

The_ medicinal values of _roots, leaves and fruits _of Funnel__ (__Foeniculum__ vulgare__ Mill), Berbery ( Berberis__ lyceum __Royle__ )__, __Vasaka_and (_Justicia__ adhatoda __L) __were explored_ in this study. The root, leaf and fruit samples of these plant species were collected from hilly areas of Kotli Sattian. Chemical analyses as well as identification of organic compounds by chromatographic techniques were carried out. The results indicate that all three plant species contained Proteins, Sugars, Lipids, Fiber and Vitamin C. Flavonoids and Saponins (Phytohormones) were found only in the fruit and leaf samples of _Foeniculum__ vulgare._ Palmatine, and Berberine, (Alkaloids) were present in the leaves, and fruits of _Berberis__ lyceum. __Whereas_ Vasicine and Vasicinone (Alkaloids) accumulated in the roots and leave of _Justicia__ adhatoda. _It was observed that roots of _Berberis__ lyceum_ and _Justicia__ adhatoda_ contained higher concentrations of all chemical compounds analyzed as compared to fruits and leave except Sugar, and Vitamin C which were high in the fruit of _Berberis__ lyceum_ . By contrast in case of _Foeniculum__ vulgare_ leaves and fruits of which contained higher concentration of protein, fats, flavonoids and saponin. The extract of roots, leaves and fruits of these plant species are being used against various infections and diseases in rural population of subcontinent since many centuries. This experiment will help to highlight the importance of these valuable organic compounds found in these plant species and their demand in the market will be increased in the future. 
*Key words:* _Berberis__ lyceum, Justicia adhatoda,_ _Foeniculum__ vulgare, Natual_ medicines

*INTRODUCTION*
Medicinal plants are a major source of drugs for the treatment of various health disorders especially in rural areas of Pakistan, India, China, Afghanistan, Iran and other countries of this region. The use of plant based medicines (local medicine) dates back to 4000-5000 B.C. Nowadays huge number of allopathic medicines also contain plant based ingredients that are used for their preparation by different companies. There are about 400,000 species of higher plants in the world, as compared to animals species that are about 5-10 million. The plant materials contain thousands of chemicals which act against diseases and infections of humans and animals when properly used. Plants contain different types of compounds such as resins, rubbers, gums, waxes, dyes, flavors, fragrances, Proteins, Amino acids, bioactive peptides, Phyto hormones, sugar, flavonoids and bio pesticides. Furthermore according to assessment of WHO about 80% of world population depend on medicinal plants for their health care needs, and more than 30% of the pharmaceutical preparations are based on plants (1). Where as some reports indicated that there are 90 popular medicinal plants and different Pharmaceutical companies are using extracts of these plants in various drugs. Scientists throughout the world are trying to explore the precious assets of medicinal plants to help the suffering humanity (2). However, the developed countries mostly import raw material from developing countries and after processing export it back as high priced prepared medicines to developing countries (1).
In Pakistan about 2000 plant species have been established of having some medicinal value, out of which only 400 are being used extensively in traditional medicine. Although Pakistan has variety in climate and rich in medicinal plants, but no systematic attempt has been made for utilization of natural resources of this country (3)_._
_Justicia adhatoda _is one of the most important plant species and dominant vegetation of hilly areas of Rawalpindi, Islamabad and extended up to NWFP (4). It belongs to family _Acanthaceae__, _subclass _Asteridae_and species _Adhatoda_. It is evergreen, gregarious shrub 3-6 m long, large leaves lanceolate 10-20 by 4-8 cm. The flowers are white or purple arranged in short, dense auxiliary pedunculate inflorescence. (5).
*The medicinal properties of *_Justicia__ adhatoda _*are well known in **India**, **Pakistan** and several other countries for many years. It was reported by different authors that roots, leaves and flowers of the plant species contained alkaloids (Vascine and Vasicinone etc), flavonoids and an essential oil (3)*
*The leaves of *_Justicia__ adhatoda_* are mostly used in the treatment of respiratory disorders in Ayurveda. The alkaloids, vasicine and vasicinone present in the leaves, possess respiratory stimulant activity (6). Vasicine, at low concentrations, induced bronchodilation and relaxation of the tracheal muscle. However, at high concentrations, vasicine offered significant protection against histamine-induced bronchospasm in guinea pigs. Vasicinone, the auto-oxidation product of vasicine has been reported to cause bronchodilatory effects both **in vitro** and **in **vivo (**7).*
_Berberis lyceum_ is locally known as simbuli or simbulu belonging to family Berberidaceae. It is about 4-6 feet in height with thorny branches. The leaves are somewhat obviate, with ciliated teeth on their margins. The flowers are drooping racemes, with yellow petals. The berries (fruit) grow in loose bunches (.
_Berberis__ lyceum_ is valued mainly for its fruits and roots, which contain alkaloids like berberine and palmitine. These alkaloids are effective against eye diseases, febrifuge, and piles (9). Whereas,an extract made from its roots (known as rasaunt) is used against many infections including eyes disorders (10). Similarly in some areas of India and Pakistan its fruits are mostly used as a tonic against liver and heart diseases (11). Furthermore it has antihistaminic, stomachic, astringent, antipyretic and diaphoretic properties (12).
_Foeniculum__ vulgare _iscommonly known as fennel and develops an edible bulb (containing leave and formed thick base), which is becoming popular as a vegetable. The leave, stalks and seeds (fruits) of this plant are edible. It is used as carminative, lactogogue and diuretic (13). _Foeniculum__ vulgare_ is an aromatic herb whose fruits are oblong, ellipsoid or cylindrical, straight or slightly curved and greenish or yellowish brown in color. The weight of seeds can be between 6 and 7 mg where as length is 6 mm and width 2mm. The dried, aromatic fruits are widely employed in culinary preparations for flavoring bread, pastry and candies. It is also used in alcohol liqueurs, as well as in cosmetic and medicinal preparations. (13). This herb has finely out feathery foliage, umbels of mid summer flowers, curved, ribbed seeds and a thick root. It is used as an expensive and extravagant spice and vegetable in different parts of the world. Its seeds contain essential oil, which is used for many purposes by human population (14).
The oil of _Foeniculum__ vulgare_ regulates the peristaltic functions of the gastrointestinal tract, thereby reducing emptying time and increasing the passage of gas. It also relieves the spasm of intestines. It was experimentally observed that Foeniculum seeds are effective against hernias and hydrocele when used with other salts or ingredients. (15).
*Keeping in view the importance of these valuable medicinal plants, the present study was undertaken with the following aims and objectives:*

1. To assess the bioactive compounds of _Berberis__ lyceum_, _Justicia__ adhatoda __and__ Foeniculum vulgare_
_2._ To compare the chemical compounds found in _Berberis__ lyceum _roots andfruits with leaves and roots of _Justicia__ adhatoda__ and__ Foeniculum vulgare_
3. Assessment of chemical compounds found in leaves and seeds of _Foeniculum__ vulgare_

*MATERIALS **AND** METHODS*
*Collection of samples*

The samples (_roots,_ _leaves and fruits) of Berberis lyceum, Foeniculum vulgare _and_ Justicia adhatoda _were collected from different localities of hilly areas of Kotli Sattian, District Rawalpindi, Pakistan during March and May, 2005. The samples of root and fruit (_Berberis__ lyceum), _leave andfruit _(Foeniculum vulgare) _and root and leafof_ Justicia adhatoda _were collected in clean plastic bags and labeled with date, number and location of samples.
*Preparation of Samples*
After collection the roots, leaves and fruits samples of _Berberis__ lyceum, Foeniculum vulgare__ and__ Justicia adhatoda _were washed and sun dried, followed by oven drying. Finally the samples were crushed and converted into powdered form and stored for further analysis.
*Chemical analysis of Plants*
The root, leaf and fruit samples of these plants species were analyzed for protein, carbohydrate, lipid, Amino acids, Vitamin C Calcium, phosphorus and Sulphur , Protein flavonodis , saponin, and alkaloids of these valuable plants species were separated by using techniques of one and two dimension thin layer and Column chromatography, followed by spectrophotometeric analysis (16, 17). All chemicals used in this study were analytical grade (Sigma and Merck). 
*Experimental*
In order to extract and purify alkaloids from root, leaves and fruits samples, following procedures were adopted: About 100 gram (each of roots, fruits and leaves) samples were soaked in solvents like Ethanol for 24 hours and filtered. The Solvent was evaporated and half volume of the solvent, NaOH (3-4%) was added. The pH of the mixture was adjusted to 10 with NaOH. The mixture was run through a column using silica gel to separate the alkaloids, flavonoids and saponin, which were further identified on thin layer chromatography using reference standards whereas for protein, sephadex (G 20 and G 50) was used.. The concentration level of these compounds was determined with the help of spectrophotometer at 470 650 nm.
*RESULTS **AND** DISSCUSSION* 
Results of biochemical analysis of different compounds found in roots, leave and fruits of_ Berberis lyceum, _Foeniculum_ vulgare, _and _Justicia__ adhatoda_ are given in tables 1-5.Higher concentration of alkaloids and other compounds was found in roots as compared to the leaves and fruits of _Berberis__ lyceum _andJusticia_ adhatoda_ (Tables 1 and 2). The results obtained after analysis of _Berberis__ lyceum_ indicated that concentration of Proteins (8.5 %) and Fat (6.5 %) was found in roots as compared to leaves (Protein 5.6% and Fat 4.5%). Whereas concentrations of alkaloids like palmatine and Berberine (5.6%) was higher in roots as compared to leaves (Table 1). 
The pH values and concentration level (mgL-1) of various bioactive compounds (Alkaloids) are given in table 5. which shows that bioactive compounds observed in higher amount in these valuable plants and can be used against various infections and diseases. The extracts of roots of _Berberis__ lyceum _are commonly used by people to repair cut, wounds or injuries and get relief from body pain. These are also used against high grade fever and liver jaundice (1. Similarly fruits of _Berberis__ lyceum _have high medicinal values and it is delicious dish of various animals and birds due to sweet taste ( 10 ).
The concentration level of protein (8.5 %), vasicine (5.5 %), vaicinone (3.8%), fat (3.5%) and fiber (1.8%) was found in roots samples of _Justicia__ adhatoda. _Where as level of such compounds was low in leaves except sugar (4.5%) and vitamin C (1.1%)
It was observed that roots and leave this plant specie contained higher concentrations of chemicals that can be used in drugs required against various disorders of human population. The extract of roots and leaves of _Justicia__ adhatoda _iscommonly used by rural population against diabetes, cough and certain liver disorders. (6 ). 
Analysis of leaves and fruits of_ Foeniculum vulgare _shows that higher concentration offlavonoids , saponins, proteins, amino acid (especially Isoleucine) and fats were present in the both leaves and fruits samples (Tables 3-5) The leaves contained higher concentration of flavonoids and fat, whereas the level of saponins, protein and other organic compounds were high in seeds (Table 3 ) . The seeds of _Foeniculum_ are considered as essential ingredients for many local medicines that are used against stomach, kidney and liver infection and disorders (15). The organic compounds obtained from seeds will further increase the market value of these valuable medicinal plants. The younger and fresh leaves are considered as delicious and traditional vegetables in many areas of this region (19) . Furthermore Seeds (fruits) are being used in almost all houses of this region for many purposes of human population, whereas leaves are mostly used as vegetables either cooked or in the form of salad.(. Data given in table 4 represents the variation in absorbance in pH due to change in solvent system for extraction of chemical compounds. 
Berberine (a alkaloid) analyzed from root and fruit of _Berberis__ lyceum_ can be used to prevent left ventricular hypertrophy development induced by pressure overload, reduce heart weight and cardiac function (20).Furthermore it also effect on the growth of bacteria and protozoa. The alkaloids like vascine and vasicinone found in the root and leave of _Justicia__ adhatoda have_ important physiological effects on liver, kidney and stomach problems (5). Whereas saponins and flavonoids found in seed and leaves of _Foneculum__ vulgare_ have important medicinal values and used in different drugs.
Therefore it is recommended that extraction and purification of such alkaloids are very valuable in the preparations of drugs of various types. The assessment of various effects of such compounds on animals and human health are required in the future studies.

*References*

1. Shinwari; M.I. and M.A.Khan 1998. Indigenous use of medicinal trees and shrubs of Margalla Hills National Park, Islamabad.Pak .J.Forest.48(1-4): 63-90.
2. Edward, A. 2001. Pathogenesis _Justicia__ adhatoda _(ed) New, Old and Forgotten remedies .pp 210-220
3. Shinawie, 2002. Wonder drugs of medicinal plants. Ethnobotony. Mol. Cell Biochem. 213 (1-2 ): 99-109.

4. Khattak, S. G. and S. N. Gilani. 1985. Antipyretic studies on some indigenous Pakistani medicinal Plants. Ethnopharmacol. 14 (1):45-52.
5. Baquar, S.R. (1997). Medicinal and Poisonous of Pak.J.Med.Sci. 95 -96.
6. Sivarjan, V. and V.Balachandran, 1994. Ayurvedic Drugs and their plant sources, Int. Sciences Publ. PP 503.

7. Rawat, M. S. M., G. Pant, S. Badoni, Y.S. Negi. 1994. Biochemical investigation of some wild fruits of Garhawal Himalayas. Prog. Horticult. 26 (1-2): 35-40.

8. Zaidi.S.H.1998.Existing indigenous medicinal plant resources of Pakistan and their prospects for utilization. Pakistan Forest Jour. 48 (2): 5

9. Ghosh, A. K., F. K. Bhattacharyya and D. K. Ghosh. 1990. Leishmania donovani: A mastigote Inhibition and mode of action of berberine . Exp. Parasitd. 60 (3): 404-413. 

10. Chopra, R. N., S. L, Nayar and I.C. Chopra. 1998. The wealth of India. Raw Materials, 2 ( B ): 114-115.

11. Gilani, A. H. and K. H. Janbaz 1999. Possible mechanism of selective intropic activity of the n- butanolic fraction from _Berberis__ aristata _fruit. Pharmacol.33 (5): 407-414.

12. Shamsa, F., A. Ahamadiani and R. Khosrokhavar. 1999.Antithistaminic and anticholinergic activity of Berbery fruit ( _Berberis__ vulgaris _) in the guinea pig ileum. Ethanopharmacol. 64 ( 2 ) : 161-166.

13. Matin, A., M. Khan, A. Asharaf and R. A. Queshri. 2002. Tradional use of shrubs and trees of Himaylan, Region, shogran valley, District Manshera ( Hazara Dsitt). Hamad. Medico. X2v (2): 50-1

14. Tanira, M.O.M. 1996. Pharmacological and doxicological investigation of Foeniculum vulgare dired fruit extract in experimental animals Phyother. Res. 10: 33-36.
15. Etherton, P.H, K. Hecker and A.Bonoman. 2002. Bioactive compounds in foods. Their role in prevention of cardiovascular disease and cancer. Am.J. Med.113,71-88.
*16. Aritom, M and T. Kawaskuki.1984. Three highly oxygenated Flanone Gluuronide in the Leave of spinacia oleracea. Phytochemist.23, 204-47 *
17. Gulfraz, M. M. Arshad, N. Nayyar, H. Kanwal and U. Nasir.2004. Extraction of Bioactive compounds from _Berberis__ lyceum_ Royle and _Justicia__ adhatoda_ L. Int. J. Ethnobotanical leaflet :6-11.

18. Ivanovska, N. and S. Philipov, 1996. Study on the anti- inflammatory action of _Berberis__ vulgaris _root extract , fractions and pure alkaloids. Immunopharmacol. 18 ( 10 ) : 553-61.

19. Kirtikar, K. R. and B. D. Basu 1993. Indian Medicinal plants. Periodical Experts Book Agency , Delhi-India.

20. Hong, Y, S.c. Hui, T, Chan and J. Y. Hou. 2002. Effects of berberine on regression of pressure overload induced cardiac hypertorophy in rats. Am. J. Chin. Med. 141-146.

_Find TABLES & REF : http://www.siu.edu/~ebl/leaflets/kotli.htm_


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## eza82 (Feb 11, 2009)

THE LAST AND PROBABLY MOST CONFUSSING (WTF)....... AND MOST IMPORTANT.........


*Purification and determination of plant hormones auxin and abscisic acid using solid phase extraction and two-dimensional high performance liquid chromatography* 

http://www.ueb.cas.cz/cz/LABBAL07/2DHPLC%20publ%20article.pdf

INTRO ABSTRACT::
Plant hormones are of vital importance for the normal functioning of plants. Their minute quantities trigger basic developmental processes such as cell division, enlargement ​

and differentiation, organ formation, seed dormancy and germination, leaf and organ senescence and abscission 
[1]. Plant hormones are difficult to analyze because they occur in very low amounts in plant extracts which are very rich in interfering substances, especially secondary metabolites. To cope with this problem the plant extract must undergo several purification steps using unrelated separation mechanisms in order to increase orthogonality and purification efficiency. Common purification procedures such as column chromatography, solid phase extraction (SPE), liquid&#8211;liquid extraction, etc. are employed for plant hormone purification. However, these procedures usually require significant amounts of solvent, time and labor. Furthermore, they all are &#8220;off-line&#8221; procedures often requiring sample pre-treatment (e.g. preconcentration) when used in series.

&#8220;On-line&#8221; purification methods encompassing multidimensional HPLC have become increasingly popular. Separation of peptides by comprehensive two-dimensional high performance liquid chromatography (2D-HPLC) has appeared to be complementary to the traditional 2D-gel electrophoresis in the proteome analysis ​​
[2&#8211;4]. So called &#8220;Heart-cutting&#8221; 2D-HPLC, in which only a part of the first dimension run is &#8220;heart-cut&#8221; and introduced into the second dimension, is a very suitable purification technique when a limited number of substances have to be purified [5,6]. Features contributing to 2D-HPLC popularity are high purification potential, reproducibility, robustness, high throughput and unattended operation.Auxin (indole-3-acetic acid, IAA) and abscisic acid (ABA) are plant hormones with contrasting biological functions.Whereas IAA stimulates growing processes such as cell elongation and division, ABA controls plant senescence and responses to stress [1].However, IAA and ABAexhibit many similar chemical properties which can be exploited for their chromatographic purification.​
​


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## Anotheroldephart (Feb 11, 2009)

You call this simple..like calculus *l* I'll stick to co2 enrichment...


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## eza82 (Feb 11, 2009)

Anotheroldephart said:


> You call this simple..like calculus *l* I'll stick to co2 enrichment...


WHORE make me MOANS (starting to get like that ) .... this was never going to be easy..........
This extraction stuff is more inline with a brief thought of extracting out hormones from our old stem & leaf of Females.... But after reading all this...... WTF WTF WTF.......
I think a quick process useing simple or NO chems would be ok.... Other wise Ill let the labs do the extractions and Ill just buy it !!!
This is good for the fact I can understand how THEY make the shit ill buy !
& i will do co2 just trying to experiment alittle.. out of intrest in plants. I luv to grow veggies as well ESPECIALLY CHILLS..........


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## Jester88 (Feb 11, 2009)

ehy but figurativeli speaking there has to be a way to extract the shit easier even if its not as pure. fuck knows it was a good idea while it lasted lol. 

still worth researching tho but thats getting a bit too much... im more into th simple grows atm less head fucks and shit... dammit


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## eza82 (Feb 11, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> ehy but figurativeli speaking there has to be a way to extract the shit easier even if its not as pure. fuck knows it was a good idea while it lasted lol.
> 
> still worth researching tho but thats getting a bit too much... im more into th simple grows atm less head fucks and shit... dammit


 
same... FUCK GETTING LAB GEAR...... I ll use products that are ready to go, I may just emulsifie my old plants througha compost (like worm farm only getting mj plant matter.....) and feed it back to them selves...........
Scratch exctration as a method of obtaining whore_moans.


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## Jester88 (Feb 11, 2009)

yeah or blend them up in water and feed the plants that 

the compost is a good idea tho


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## eza82 (Feb 11, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> yeah or blend them up in water and feed the plants that
> 
> the compost is a good idea tho


Maybey let it decompose over a month or two.... by puting some worm tea in there and the lid not air tight.... We may be able to harvet some goodness in tiny amounts along with some great fertz.......


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## Jester88 (Feb 11, 2009)

yup plus itd get chlorophyl

how would that go with the plants id assume it would be good ehy????


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## eza82 (Feb 11, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> yup plus itd get chlorophyl
> 
> how would that go with the plants id assume it would be good ehy????


I found this.......................
*chlorophyll* 
Plants have the unique ability to make their own food. They have *chlorophyll *in their leaf cells and sometimes in their branches and stems, as in cactus. Plants pull water from the soil and take in carbon dioxide from the air. These raw materials, mixed by chlorophyll with energy from the light of the sun, make a more complex substance called sugar. 
It all sounds pretty simple, but it's a very complicated process that I won't go into here. 
Why do green plants make sugar? That's easy, for food. Think about the life of a sugar maple tree. During the spring and summer, it basks in the sun, pulling water from the soil and carbon dioxide from the air and pumping sugary sap into the roots. The next spring, when it needs lots of food to grow new leaves, the stored sap from the roots rises and the sugar feeds the growth. 


Chlorophyll is the producer of the energy we, and the rest of the animals on Earth, burn during our daily lives. 
Sugar manufactured by plants is chemically changed into more complex starches, oils and proteins with energy stored in the chemical bonds. Animals, including humans, take plant leaves, flowers, fruits and roots, eat them and break them back down into simpler materials. That releases the energy stored by plants and that energy maintains life. 
Releasing the energy from food, called respiration, is the opposite of photosynthesis. 

One last note here is that plants themselves respire. 
Producing food isn't a benevolent act on the part of plants done because they enjoy having animals running around the fields and forests. Plants make food so that they can also burn some of that food to stay alive. 
In the end, if it weren't for green plants and their clever alchemy of photosynthesis, animals wouldn't exist. 
Non-green plants have entirely lost their ability to produce chlorophyll. Because they still need food to live, these plants depend on other sources of food to live. They are wildflowers that are more like animals than the other plants of the forest. 

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_371842.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

*So essentially the sugars will bleed into a mix and you would bolster the grow medium with extra fatty acids, and sugars..... which I think would be a good thing..... if Ph`ed*


*.*


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## eza82 (Feb 11, 2009)

eza82 said:


> Plants have the unique ability to make their own food. They have *chlorophyll *in their leaf cells and sometimes in their branches and stems, as in cactus. Plants pull water from the soil and take in carbon dioxide from the air. These raw materials, mixed by chlorophyll with energy from the light of the sun, make a more complex substance called sugar.
> 
> 
> *.*


So YOU CAN "SUBSITUTE" co2 through dodging the process of Chlorophyll, and directly introduceing the right sugars & amino`s to your buds..........


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## Jester88 (Feb 11, 2009)

so chlorophyll may be helpfull then???

also as for the other idea what about the leftovers from bubblehash  (female plants)
you would get chlorophyll and certain other things in the water wouldnt you??? maybe trace amounts of hormones would make there way to the plant who knows... or make your bubblehash then do a quick hot extract perhaps???


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## eza82 (Feb 11, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> so chlorophyll may be helpfull then???
> 
> also as for the other idea what about the leftovers from bubblehash  (female plants)
> you would get chlorophyll and certain other things in the water wouldnt you??? maybe trace amounts of hormones would make there way to the plant who knows... or make your bubblehash then do a quick hot extract perhaps???


Chlorophyll is a chemical used in part of a process the plant uses to develop green folage...... With a comination of reactions between light,water,co2, plants generate food or sugars in which the cells of the plant split and enlarge and makes the plant grow bigger stronger and more green. I dont know as additive... ill have to get back to you ( in its pure form ????)
But in short YES, the water would have to contain some of the sugars and amino`s. ( i think)


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## Jester88 (Feb 11, 2009)

aaah think im up to pace now 

2 EZ


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## eza82 (Feb 11, 2009)

This could Kill plants too i suppose.... If i think about it, What if the fact that we are right and just a straight up tea of mashed stem and leaf contains all of these chemicals/hormones/vits etc. Then it would be safe to say that certin plants would kill other plants by over doseing them on 1 particular chemical.... What if its too concentrated ?????


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## Jester88 (Feb 12, 2009)

hmmmm i dunno i think i may have to check it out one day now and see. but i dont see how giving it chlorophyll water....

but were using it on the same plants i dunno fuck it.... i might remember this one and see how it goes one day.

if your using weed on weed it should be alrigt id reckon.... guess ill find out one day.


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## eza82 (Feb 12, 2009)

depends on when & what part we feed (im assumeing ).... if we are feeding mature leaf and stem to younger sprouts... then ???? But Muture feed to a mature plant... i guess so......


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## themink86 (Feb 12, 2009)

so what hormones would i use if i am a week into flowering?


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## eza82 (Feb 12, 2009)

themink86 said:


> so what hormones would i use if i am a week into flowering?


Now thats a question with to many answers champ! Its like asking; What grow operation do i build ? Hormones are complexe and can be used to do MANY MANY different things...... What are you looking to do ? 
IN:
HORMONES/PGR`s/VITIMANS - RESEARCH THREAD ONLY. 
find; *Hydroponic additives- 11 ways to help your plant*, that will give you an idea of what ( 3/4 way down)
and also find my *feed & dose schedual* ..... thats what & when & how much im feeding on this grow. (nxt post)

Then come back.......


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## Jester88 (Feb 12, 2009)

i think he was just asking what kind of hormone you reckomend to get big buds...

think of it as another experiment where ya get to see more results of your schedule or something  i dunno.

i just think he wants to get some BIG BUDS and wants to know what you recommend... cummon be a champ help the dude out man.


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## eza82 (Feb 12, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> i think he was just asking what kind of hormone you reckomend to get big buds...
> 
> think of it as another experiment where ya get to see more results of your schedule or something  i dunno.
> 
> i just think he wants to get some BIG BUDS and wants to know what you recommend... cummon be a champ help the dude out man.


lol....i know i know, but to be realalistic one has to have all other aspects working for them...nutes light etc, by doseing with some of the shit I am he would probably kill his plant UNLESS they are healthy....... Which most people look for a fix not an aid..... NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE... I cant really give to much advise for the simple reasons a: I dont want to be responsable for killing someones crop. b: Its not a fix - think of them like steroids, you have to have a pretty tight program, exercise,water,sleep,eat..... well its the same here if i tell him to use BEN - 6 & GA3 at this time at this PPM and he has not got a good water schedual or bad light, bad ventalation, bad nutes, bad soil, alges ( which will mix badly ) ETC ETC - DEATH of the ladies.....

But here is some additives Id start with..........

First up I would think playing with NPK ratios then moving onto hormones .......
GREAT QUICK BUD BOOSTS 
a: PK 13-14 ( phos is a additive/mineral known to be responsable for ladies) NPK product,
b: Silica - Wieght additive gets stored with in plant cells naturally.
c: Big pistills - Use NAA


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## Jester88 (Feb 12, 2009)

*potassium,* phosporous higher levels of these are used to obtain bigger bids

cheap source of potassium is potash or fire remains...

but dude i assume the ferts hes using are already set for this so yeah.

but he wants something to influence bud growth and size..not just weight. fuck thats about the only thing molasses is good for in my books sorry to say.... but its not really a size or production booster like i think this guys after.

what other suggestions would you have... 


hmmm dont look at it as a pain or hastle but a learning curve. this is constructive learning... and will help people understand what your saying better. 

AND you said your trying to prove that they rival Coz as an aid in production so not to be an arse but which one is it. i myself disagree with parts of the last one like i said i have knowedge of plant hormones and steroid use and i can say for certain it is an aid in getting bigger buds thats y it fixes a small plants little plant syndrome


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## eza82 (Feb 12, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> *potassium,* phosporous higher levels of these are used to obtain bigger bids
> 
> cheap source of potassium is potash or fire remains...
> 
> ...


OK- Here are some theories on what Im doing then;
( I have been growing awhile indoors and out just with partner (who looked after majority of time) Now have own setup..And I think I have things DIALED as far as NUTES/lights/water/grow medium/ and the basics ... I suppose this has become a hobby and a research project.... after I learnt to grow.)

GROW;

Gibberellin (GA3) and thiamin ( or the B group of vitimins in way of Super thrive & Hyderolysate)-treated plants showed a greater nitrogen metabolism : = Stem lengthening = To re-gen clones quicker... 
Net weight even decreased somewhat [ Lost Other elements also I think (as well as N) I think in the way of carbon and ethylene gases that are stored in the cells... the plant released or used Im not sure....]
Chlorophyll decreased noticeably though and some showed a pale yellow on lower leaves and a fluro like green... 
Plants treated with GA3 EATS *N* FAST so im useing ;Clone xcellarator as my extra source of nitorgen- to compansate the xtra N being processed by the plant.... And at higher doses of GAA I can controll hieght....

BRASSINOLIDE & IAA/IBA= It will increase a plants resistance to stress (cold, drought, too high a salt content), it helps the plant locate light, it strengthens a plants resistance to disease. It will also stimulate a plant to grow it's overall root mass...Transperant Roots seem to be comeing out of the ground toward the light so something is going on..... 

Silica - Wieght additive gets stored with in plant cells naturally to help counter the wieght loss. ( we are talking MICRO GRMS) Ultimately this will produce a Fuller bud.

FLOWER:

BEN-6 :
Effects are Latrial growth giving it thicker and stronger stems, healthier and larger leaves (more surface area to capture light) at 300 ppm. 
I will be sparying @300ppm at the end of the 4th week of flowring there is a dramatic increase in bud growth. Combined with the earlier spraying of Brassinlide , the end result is i hope: quality and yield & HELP TO SUPPORT themselves or BUD Mass 

(which didnt work ONLY because they have already been tied up two days ago or 5th day into 3rd week of flower){which is unusal considering they would tilt usually around 7 weeks and we would have to tie 1 or 2 branchs..... this time its EVERY large branch and the crown......}

NAA in way of La Femme is a female hormone which induces predominance of female flowers (more defined & bigger pistil ). It is most effective when used as a foliar spray during the initial flower bud formation or the change of lights. It was sparyed twice in total.... 1 week apart ( which @moment the pistils have not gone through any chage they are still in ONLY growth.. as in there is no browning of pistil at all. usually I will see alittle deteration in some pistil, they look fresh)

Useing also dutch master Penatrator

& also looking at *ethylene* (sensa spray) for last 2 weeks of flower in a folia dose or two..... This I hope along with the Aminos & Carbs ( plant sugars ) should aid natural C02, it produces a gases atmosphere high in ethylene which in turn the plant will use to make Co2 by passing the need for a Chlorophyll to chemically induce food for growth & greener more robust leaf................ 
It is a folia spray direct to Phloem &#8211; (Food transporting tissue of a plant in all parts of leaf and stem /giving it sugar/food directly to the bud. ) the natural co2 production and Ethylene, should both be stored with in the plant cells to give fuller buds.....


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## eza82 (Feb 12, 2009)

Jester was that good enough ??


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## shepj (Feb 12, 2009)

A lot of cool stuff in here! I knew a bit of it, but a compiled version is beautiful! Can you find a source as to whether or not estrogen (or synthetic forms, such as birth control) effect the growth of marijuana? I have heard yes and no from various people that estogen will help a plant grow better (as plants require estrogen to reproduce, just like ppl).


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## Jester88 (Feb 12, 2009)

yeah perfect


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## eza82 (Feb 12, 2009)

shepj said:


> A lot of cool stuff in here! I knew a bit of it, but a compiled version is beautiful! Can you find a source as to whether or not estrogen (or synthetic forms, such as birth control) effect the growth of marijuana? I have heard yes and no from various people that estogen will help a plant grow better (as plants require estrogen to reproduce, just like ppl).


GREAT QUESTION.................. 

Estrogen AS FEED..
Estrogen (birth control pil;l) my research;.
"estrogen" actually refers to any of a group... of chemically similar hormones; estrogenic hormones are sometimes mistakenly referred to as exclusively female hormones when in fact both men and women produce them in humans/animals.

Plants have a different form;
Phytoestrogens (plant-derived estrogen are a variety of synthetic chemicals and natural plant compounds that are thought to mimic the female hormone estrogen.) ....

Plants contain many types of phytoestrogens; additionally, they contain minerals and other constituents. 
Red clover, for instance, is mineral-rich and contains all four of the *major types* of phytoestrogens: *lignans, coumestans, isoflavones, and resorcylic acid lactones *but these are realativley un tested on flowering plants. Some have to be link to cancer like isoflavones....

to the point:
-Plant hormones, including most phytoestrogens anyways.
-Plants which are exceptionally rich in phytoestrogens are regarded as powerful herbal medicines. Plants which are good sources of phytoestrogens are regarded as foods.

So my suggestion is get RED Clover which is extrodinarly high in phytoestrogens, and emulsifie and water. Which would give you a result im sure if you feed enough of it....good or bad ???????

I think you would be better off useing a high k (or PHOS) NPK fertz, you will get better results.... get a really good *food* based organic fertz ie; fish emulsion.with high phos... But these would have *tiny* amounts of phytoestrogen.

Basically.... no need for extra phytoestrogen if you are doseing other hormones, the plant will naturally produce it...... 
I cant see it helping regardless of what people say, & there is no need.. Its not going to boost anything.... I cant see how the plant could use the chemicals involved.... there is only TRACE amounts in plants and *they are not introduced they are produced*.

THOUGH ITS PROVEN: AS SEED SOAK
SEEDS treated with the female hormone estrogen, percentage of females that are produced will increase by about 10%. Dissolve a birth control pill in water and soak the seeds overnight in the solution. After the initial soaking, continue to treat the seeds by sprouting them on a paper towel soaked in the solution


Hope that hepled make up your mind.........


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## eza82 (Feb 13, 2009)

*FOR THE BASIS OF MY THEORY*>WITH ALL ASPECTS FOR CONSIDERATION IN MARIJUANA GROWTH:

>THE FORMULA FOR GROWING BIG FAT STINKY FEMALES................... 

PART 1# The basis of my theory

Hormones
*Auxin* would be released when cells contains more than enough sugar, and all other environmental conditions are favorable for growth. 

*Abscisic Acid* might signal a need emergency action under most kinds of rapidly developing environmental stress, not just water shortages. ABA's main role is clearly resistance to drought conditions though. & ABA induced stomata closing. Considered an inhibitor.

Complimentarily, *Salicylic/jasmonic Acids* may be the hormones released when things are running normally and no special rapid response is needed from the plant. It might be the "feel good" hormone, 
*Cytokinin* would be made when cells have enough nutrients of the sort normally provided by the root, mainly water and minerals and all other conditions are favorable for growth.

*Gibberellin/Brassinostreroid* would be made when mature cells have less than enough shoot nutrients, i.e. sugar and Oxygen to survive especially if environmental conditions are poor. 

*Ethylene* might be released when mature cells are receiving less than enough nutrients normally received from the roots, mainly minerals and water, to support life at all, thus senescence of the cell is warranted. Again this effect may be accentuated by poor environmental conditions.


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## eza82 (Feb 13, 2009)

PART 2# Minerals & Micronutrients
The nutrient uptake by cannabis reaches it maximum just before maturity and blossoming. 
Nitrogen and phosphorus uptake then increase up to 250%, and potassium requirements increase 400%. 
The uptake of calcium and magnesium increases 150%. Additional amounts of nutrients must be readily available to the plants at that time in order to produce maximum yields. 
Cannibis consumes about 1 kg of nutrients for each kg of bud it produces. 

*N *
Causes cannabis to grow rapidly as seedlings, but the plants wilt, turn to copper-brown. 
High levels of N in the middle of the growth cycle will cause water uptake to increase.Excess N added inhibits stem development. 
Best results are obtained by adding half of the required N in the primary treatment, and the second half at the first feeding. If the initial growth of a plant is slow, it can be aided by a foliar spray

*P *: "To obtain high yields, it is necessary to assure the plants an easily accessible source of phosphoric acid 
by applying granulated superphosphate (outdoors) at the very beginning of development, best absorption is before the plants have reached the phase of 6 pairs of leaves. concentration of THC are positively correlated with extractable phosphate. Cannabis uses 250% more phosphorus at flowering than during the vegetative phase

*K *
The absorption of K is most intense in the 4th week after germination. The supply of K should be reduced by 50% during flowering.

*Ca*
--- Calcium gives cannabis very strong, fibrous, short stems with dark green leaves and swollen flowers. An adequate supply is vital in the 6th-9th weeks of growth

*Trace Elements* 
--- Micronutrient deficiencies often are caused by alkaline water, which prevents uptake by plants. Such deficiencies usually can be covered by the use of commercially available "transplanting solutions" and by adjusting the grow medium to neutral pH. 

*Mg *--- Cannabis is very sensitive to magnesium deficiency, Cannibis has an extraordinarily high requirement for Mg, and is exceptional in comparison to most other plants, which are killed by applications of Mg alone. Combinations of K and Mg give the highest yields, which increase considerably with an increase in the MgA. 
Haraszty conducted experiments for 10 years to augment the yield of Cannibis with macro- and micronutrients (tested in over 50 combinations). He found significant effects with formulations containing K, Mn and Mg (applied in the form of their sulfates at 10 kg/ha), by which he achieved up to 32% increases in quantity

*Fe*
--- Powdered magnetite (magnetic iron oxide) will supply sufficient Fe, and it stimulates plant growth by the effect of magnetic energy. 10 ppm of Fe gives the best growth ; 5 ppm gives the best yield for flower.

*Mn* 
--- A deficiency of manganese will stunt the growth and flowering of Cannibis. Leaves appear mottled with grey-brown necrotic spots. The plants lack vitamin C; there are some deaths. Signs of deficiency first appear on shoots. Leaf margins remain green while the rest of the leaf turns yellow or white. 
*S* 
--- Sulfur stimulates root growth and seed production. S-deficient hemp is pale green, with purple veins. The stem is stiff, woody, and thin; the seeds are immature. 

*B* 
--- Boron . When sufficient P and K are available, an additional application of boric acid ,Cu-sulfate, and Mn-sulfate will produce a significant increase in yields and in the quality. A deficiency of B is revealed by cracked, stunted stems and dry rot. Leaves turn purple, terminal shoots curl and die, petioles become brittle, and the flowers are covered with dry areas. New shoots turn gray or brown and die with a burnt appearance. The situation can be corrected with a foliar spray of boric acid. 

*Cu*
--- Cannabis does not have a high tolerance for copper, but supplementary Cu-sulfate will improve the quality and yield of cannabis, especially in peat, which often is deficient in this element. A deficiency causes stems to weaken and break. 

*Mo*
--- A deficiency of molybdenum is indicated by yellowing between veins on leaves. The middle leaves turn yellow. 
*Zn*
--- A deficiency of zinc is indicated by chlorosis between the veins at the base of shoots, and by the accompanying twist of leaf blades. 
Flowering is inhibited. Over-watering produces symptoms resembling nutrient deficiencies or excesses. These usually can be corrected by reducing the water supply, or by drainage.


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## eza82 (Feb 13, 2009)

PART 3
The production of cannabinoids (THC, CBN, CBD, etc.) is greatly influenced by nutrients. 
As soil N increases relative to Mg, CBD increases relative to CBN. Increasing the ratio of N to Cu increases the level of CBD. Increasing amounts of P convert CBN to THC. 
Low to medium levels of P produces a high level of CBD, but CBD decreases with high levels of P.
Low levels (levels less than 40 ppm) of Mg produce more CBD than do high levels of Mg. As levels of Mg increase relative to Ca, the concentration of THC decreases. 
*The concentration of Mg and Fe in leaves is positively correlated to THC levels.*
Potassium increases the concentration of CBN by effecting the dehydrogenation of THC. An excess of K in the 3rd month will inhibit resin production. Excess Ca will inhibit resin production, and it increases the production of CBD in the resin is produced. 
Either an excess or deficiency of Mg produces more CBD. 5 ppm Fe gives highest yields of THC. 

The recommended "ideal" pattern of nutrient application for cannabinoid production is said to be: high N and K, low Ca, and medium Mg during the first 2 months of growth, continued high N and K, medium Mg, and increased Ca during the next 6-8 weeks, followed by decreased N, K, and Ca, and increased Mg through the flowering phase. 

Many growers use a commercial 15-30-30 formula throughout the season. 

Mel Frank offers this micronutrient formula for high cannabinoid production: Fe-sulfate (5 mg/gal), Cu-sulfate (0.2 mg/gal), Mn-sulfate (2 mg/gal), Zn-sulfate (0.2 mg/gal), Boric acid (2 mg/gal), Molybdenic acid (0.1 mg/gal). Use 1 tspn/gal of nutrient solution, once monthly. Bill Drake gives this recipe in 

Marijuana: The Cultivator&#8217;s Handbook
: Ca-sulfate (6 oz), mono-Ca-phosphate (4 oz), Mg-sulfate (6 oz), K-nitrate (8 oz), and Fe-sulfate (1 gr). Use 1 tspn/gal. 

.


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## eza82 (Feb 13, 2009)

part 4 # MY THEORY ! THE FORMULA FOR GROWING BIG FAT STINKY FEMALES...................

*The entire plant contains several hundred known elements/chemicals/hormones/vitimins etc*
*But the sexual expression & cannibinods of cannibis is determined by its genetic makeup, and by its metabolic temper.*
*Which is regulated by the male enzyme andrase and the female enzyme gynase. *
*Environmental & atmosphereic conditions (light, nutrients, soil and water) are keys and may suppress (through ABA) or induce the formation of the dominant enzymes and hormones, and allow the opposite sex to express itself partially (hermaphroditism) or completely as a THC bleeding beautiful lady.*
*Transition of female cannibis plants from the vegetative to the flowering phase is associated with a rise in Phos and cytokinin level, while that of male proceeds at a decreasing cytokinin level with an increase in Nitrogen. *
*The activity of cytokinins,avalablity of Gibberellin and level of PHOS are all associated with an enhancement of the female tendency/attributes. *


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## eza82 (Feb 13, 2009)

*Crit`s/ thoughts??? *

*THIS WILL BE THE BASIS to my experiments over the nxt few months. *
*HORMONES vs Co2*
*Sticking to this theory; will narrow down what im going to use & when.*
*Co2 will be used with basic nutes and vitimins.*
This was hours and hours of research so I invite you to micro analyze........it will not only help me but your self to understand and grasp.


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## shepj (Feb 13, 2009)

Nice posts man.. you're amazing. 

"THOUGH ITS PROVEN: AS SEED SOAK
SEEDS treated with the female hormone estrogen, percentage of females that are produced will increase by about 10%. Dissolve a birth control pill in water and soak the seeds overnight in the solution. After the initial soaking, continue to treat the seeds by sprouting them on a paper towel soaked in the solution"

that is beautiful.


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## eza82 (Feb 13, 2009)

Determining sexal expression of marijuana through genes...........female and male 

http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jgenet/19/65.pdf

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=zjKjqKt3MSAC&pg=PA77&lpg=PA77&dq=female+enzyme+gynase&source=bl&ots=hKHjMxzLTy&sig=Qa77XAP6AsN9dcgmgFijIMCNC3s&hl=en&ei=wRSWSau6KJWukAXz-5S3Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/archive/index.php/t-646.html


----------



## eza82 (Feb 13, 2009)

shepj said:


> Nice posts man.. you're amazing.
> 
> "THOUGH ITS PROVEN: AS SEED SOAK
> SEEDS treated with the female hormone estrogen, percentage of females that are produced will increase by about 10%. Dissolve a birth control pill in water and soak the seeds overnight in the solution. After the initial soaking, continue to treat the seeds by sprouting them on a paper towel soaked in the solution"
> ...


Be sure to get the PLANT DERIVED version though.... others will have oppisite effect. google something like `plant estrogen`
BUT - with only a 10% margin.... Your better off with banana peel or cucumber peel in ziplock bag....ethylene - that will give youe a 30-40% margin IMO.
As well as that you dont need subscription from doctor.....


----------



## shepj (Feb 13, 2009)

eza82 said:


> Be sure to get the PLANT DERIVED version though.... others will have oppisite effect. google something like `plant estrogen`
> BUT - with only a 10% margin.... Your better off with banana peel in ziplock bag....ethylene - that will give youe a 30-40% margin IMO.
> As well as that you dont need subscription from doctor.....


chemistry is easy for me.. and anabolic steroids are readily available.. I'm sure I can find someone with a plant ready form of estradiol.


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## eza82 (Feb 13, 2009)

shepj said:


> chemistry is easy for me.. and anabolic steroids are readily available.. I'm sure I can find someone with a plant ready form of estradiol.


Do you have a lab set up for deriving compounds ?
If so:
Triacontanol is a fatty alcohol found in many plants. It increases growth rates and yields up to 25%, and increases the protein content, even during darkness when plants usually are dormant. Triacontanol seems to enhance the growth of plants without increasing their consumption of nitrogen. Triacontanol is extracted from sunflower seeds or alfalfa by chloroform; filter and evaporate the solution to yield crude triacontanol. The dosage is 1 ppm in water.

or if your lab`y
The B-vitamins (1 ppm solution) increase the yield by raising its fat content. - thiamine
Potassium permanganate in weak solutions stimulates the development of cannabis in all its phases. 
Dilute camphor also stimulates plant growth. Vitamin C (1-5 parts in 10,000 water) has the same effect.
Auxigro, manufactured by the Auxein Corp. (US Patent 5,840,656) contains 4-aminobutyric acid, L-glutamic acid, etc.). It increases fertilizer efficiency severalfold and improves plant growth up to 50%. Nutrient accumulation also is increased dramatically.


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## shepj (Feb 13, 2009)

eza82 said:


> Do you have a lab set up for deriving compounds ?


no, but I have a lot of chemical suppliers. He he he


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## Jester88 (Feb 13, 2009)

on that last link you left there talking about collodial silver and making a solution right..

my question is this.
i can get collodial silver from the a shop. i havent looked at whats in it but im just wandering are they trying to make collodial silver or using collodial silver with other things to make something else that produces male flowers on the female plants..

the reason im asking is the shit already is collodial silver (theres also another way to make it involving distilled water, an electric current and some silver..)

anyways i can get collodial silver from the shop and was wandering if anyone knows what the go is from there. i havent got to look at what the stuff actually is yet..

would i be right in assumin collodial silver has to be mixed with sodium thiosulphate and use the mix on a girl plant to produce a male flower....

also what about just getting one bud to produce the seed and letting it go from there???? maybe just pollinating itself even????


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## eza82 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> on that last link you left there talking about collodial silver and making a solution right..
> 
> my question is this.
> i can get collodial silver from the a shop. i havent looked at whats in it but im just wandering are they trying to make collodial silver or using collodial silver with other things to make something else that produces male flowers on the female plants..
> ...


 
This is what your talkin about ??:::

--------------------------

*How To Reverse FEMALES Using Silver Thiosulfate Solution*

1. mix 2.6 grams of sodium thiosulphate into 600ml of distilled water and mix thoroughly.

2. mix .7 grams of silver nitrate into 100ml of distilled water and mix thoroughly.

3. mix silver nitrate solution into sodium thiosulphate solution while stirring rapidly.

4. top off mixture with distilled water to fill a glass quart jar (canning jar type).

5. use this mix at a 3:1 ratio with distilled water and spray plants to point of run-off.

6. repeat process in 3 days, move target females in at 5 days.

use common safety precautions. rubber gloves, safety glasses, skin covered, respirator preferred.

3:1 ratio of distilled water to stock mix of STS can be played with some. some people use it as diluted as 9:1 and some run it as hot as 1:1.

---------------------------------




How To Reverse Sex Using Silver Thiosulfate Solution 

The following is a safe, inexpensive, and successful method for reversing the sex of female cannabis plants. Individual plant responses may vary based upon strain, but I can verify that this process is fully effective in stimulating profuse staminate flower production. 

This process can be used to:

A: create new feminized seeds from solitary prize mothers that you currently have
B: create interesting feminized-seed hybrids from different prize strains that you currently have
C: create feminized seeds for optimum outdoor use
D: accelerate the "interview" phase of cultivation, in searching for interesting new clone-mothers 
E: reduce total plant numbers- great for medical users with severe plant number restrictions
F: increase variety, by helping to create stable feminized seedlines to be used as an alternative to clones

At the bottom of this post are some specific details about the chemicals used, their safety, their cost, and where to get them. 

It is important to educate yourself about cannabis breeding theory and technique prior to using a method like this one. Here is a link to Robert Clarke's "Marijuana Botany", which is a very good reference. 

"Marijuana Botany" by Robert Connell Clarke
(unfortunately missing the appendices)
http://www.geocities.com/hempgenes/Botany.html

It is also important to use basic safety precautions when mixing and handling these chemicals, so read the safety data links provided. The risk is similar to mixing and handling chemical fertilizers, and similar handling procedures are sufficient.

Remember: nothing will ever replace good genetics, and some of your bounty should always go back towards the professional cannabis breeders out there... the ones who have worked for many generations to come up with their true-breeding F1 masterpieces. Support professional breeders by buying their seeds. Also, order from Heaven's Stairway. Not that they need a plug from me, but they are very professional and provide very fast service worldwide.


First, a stock solution is made. It consists of two parts (A and B) that are initially mixed separately, then blended together. Part A is ALWAYS mixed into part B while stirring rapidly. Use distilled water; tap water may cause precipitates to form.

Wear gloves while mixing and using these chemicals, and mix and use in a properly ventilated area. A mask will prevent the breathing of any dust, which is caustic. STS is colorless and odorless, and poses minimal health risks if used as described here. (See material safety data sheet links below). Note that silver nitrate and STS can cause brown stains upon drying, so spray over newspaper and avoid spilling.

Part A: .5 gram silver nitrate stirred into 500ml distilled water
Part B: 2.5 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 500ml distilled water

The silver nitrate dissolves within 15 seconds. The sodium thiosulfate takes 30-45 seconds to dissolve.

The silver nitrate solution (A) is then mixed into the sodium thiosulfate solution (B) while stirring rapidly. The resulting blend is stock silver thiosulfate solution (STS).

This stock solution is then diluted at a ratio of 1:9 to make a working solution. For example, 100ml of stock STS is added to 900ml of distilled water. This is then sprayed on select female plants.

Both the stock STS and the working solution should be refrigerated after use, as well as the powdered chemicals, to avoid activity loss. Excess working solution can be safely poured down the drain after use (with ample running water) with negligible environmental impact. It's pretty cheap.

Each liter of stock STS will make ten 1-liter batches of working solution of STS. With the minimum amount of base chemicals ordered from Photographer's Formulary (see link below), this means that each 1-liter bottle of working solution STS costs less than 9 cents, and can treat 15-20 mid-sized plants. That's 200 1-liter batches of STS for $18. Note that the distilled water costs far more than the chemicals.



The STS working solution is sprayed on select female plants until runoff. Do the spraying over newspaper in a separate area from the flower room. You probably won't smell anything, but ventilate anyway. You now have what I call a "F>M plant"; a female plant that will produce male flowers.

After the F>M plant dries move it into 12/12 immediately. This is usually done three to four weeks prior to the date that the target (to be pollinated) plants will be ready to pollinate. Response times may vary slightly depending upon the strain. More specific times can be determined by trial with your own individual strains. In my trials it took 26 days for the first pollen. 30-35 days seems optimum for planning purposes.

So, assuming that a target plant needs 3-4 weeks to produce fully mature seeds, a strain that takes 8 weeks to mature should be moved into flower at about the same time as the female>male plant. A target plant that finishes flowering in 6 weeks needs to be moved into flower later (10 days or so) so that it doesn't finish before the seeds can fully mature.

A seeded individual branch can be left to mature on a plant for a bit longer, while harvesting the other seedless buds if they finish first. Just leave enough leaves on for the plant for it to stay healthy.

Effects:

Within days I noticed a yellowing of the leaves on the F>M plants. This effect persisted for two weeks or so; after this they became green again, except for a few of the larger fans. The plants otherwise seemed healthy. No burning was observed. Growth stopped dead for the first ten days, and then resumed slowly. No stretch was ever seen. After two weeks the F>M plants were obviously forming male flower clusters. Not just a few clusters of balls, but complete male flower tops. One plant still formed some pistillate flowers, but overall it was predominantly male.

It is strange indeed to see an old girlfriend that you know like the back of your hand go through a sex change. I'll admit that things were awkward between us at first. 

When the F>M plants look like they may soon open and release pollen, ( 3-1/2 to 4 weeks) move them from the main flower room into another unventilated room or closet with lighting on a 12/12 timer. Don't worry too much about watts per square foot; it will only be temporary. 

When the pollen flies, move your target plants into the closet and pollinate. 

A more controlled approach is to isolate the F>M plants in a third remote closet (no light is necessary in this one, as they are releasing pollen now and are nearly finished anyway). In this remote other closet the pollen is very carefully collected in a plastic produce bag or newspaper sleeve and then brought back to the lighted closet, where the target plants are now located. If this is done, be careful to not mix pollen types by letting the F>Ms dust each other. Avoid movement, or use yet another closet. 

Take special care to not let pollen gather on the outside of this bag- a static charge is sometimes present. Drop small open clusters of blooms inside and then close the bag at the mouth and shake. Important: next, step outside and slowly release the excess air from the bag, collapsing it completely, so that pollen doesn't get released accidently. Point downwind; don't let it get on your hands or clothes.

This collapsed pollinated bag is now very carefully slipped over only one branch and is then tied off tightly at the mouth around the branch stem with a twist tie or tape, sealing the pollen inside. Let the bag inflate slightly with air again before sealing it off, so the branch can breathe. This technique keeps the entire plant from seeding. Agitate the bag a bit after tying it off to distribute the pollen. Don't forget to label the branch so you know which seeds are which. Other branches on this same plant can be hit with different pollen sources.

If no lighted closet is available, the plant can be moved back into the main room, but- be very careful: pollen is sneaky. After 4-5 days, the bag is gently removed and the plant completes it's flowering cycle. 

Yet another method has worked well for me. I position the target plants in a non-ventilated lighted closet, and then I collect pollen on a piece of mirror or glass. This is then carefully applied to the pistils of one pre-labeled branch by using a very fine watercolor paintbrush. Care is taken to not agitate the branch or the pollen. No sneezing. The plant needs to be in place first; moving it after pollination can shake pollen free and blow this technique. 

Regardless of technique, at completion you will have feminized seeds. Let them dry for 2-4 weeks.



Silver nitrate is a white crystalline light-sensitive chemical that is commonly used in photography. It is also used in babies' eyes at birth to prevent blindness. It can cause mild skin irritation, and it stains brown. Avoid breathing. I didn't notice any smell or fumes, but ventilation is recommended. Be sure to wash the spray bottle well before you use it elsewhere; better yet: devote a bottle to STS use. A half gram is a surprisingly small amount; it would fit inside a gel capsule. 

Here are links to some safety data. A Google search will bring up more information if needed.

Silver Nitrate info:
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ipcsneng/neng1116.html
http://www.lions.odu.edu/~redwards/...%20solution.pdf

For a realistic hazard level comparison, here is a link for the safety and handling data for Ammonium Nitrate, or common fertilizer:
http://www.skcgulfcoast.com/nioshdb...ng/neng0216.htm

Sodium thiosulfate is also a white crystalline chemical commonly used in photography; it is used in photographic fixers. Same general cautions apply, minus the staining. This formula uses the anhydrous type. Non-hazardous. 

Sodium Thiosulfate info:
http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/SO/s...hiosulfate.html
http://www.med-chem.com/MSDS/Sodium_Thiosulf.htm

------------------

Where to get the chemicals:

http://www.photoformulary.com

silver nitrate: 10 grams: $10
http://www.photoformulary.com/Deskt...yID=27&langID=0

sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous): 100 grams: $3.95
http://www.photoformulary.com/Deskt...yID=28&langID=0

Postage runs around $4. Fast service. Can be shipped to Canada.







STS For Sex Reversal: Conclusions 

I wanted to post some conclusions that I have come to regarding the successful reversal of plants using silver thiosulfate solution. It's been a year since I posted the other STS thread. I have done six batches myself, and have had full pollen release with all of them. Everyone else seems to be doing well, but there is very little feedback so who knows. A big thanks to those who contributed to the other thread... your input was a big help in refining the technique. 

I was going to edit the original post, but I can't, as I am THE Country Mon now, not just Country Mon. Changed my email addy and got locked out.

There has been one key change that I want to pass along to everyone who didn't want to sift through the 25+ pages of the original thread.

I have discovered that using a stronger concentration of STS does not make a plant more likely to produce pollen. It just burns/stresses the plant. What DOES make a plant much more likely to complete it's mission and make pollen is a second spraying at the end of week 2.

My conclusion is that STS in any concentration is only effective at inhibiting ethylene for about 3 weeks; at that point the plant's natural female metabolism begins to take back control, and even a plant that is covered with male blooms can't finish the journey to manhood and produce pollen. A second spraying allows inhibition to last through week 6, which is more than enough time to release pollen.

Some of you have decided to use stronger concentrations of STS. This is fine as long as it doesn't burn your plants. Obviously there is a wide range of usable formulas that will work. But the second spraying is the key to follow-through. You can store the working solution you used for round one (in the spray bottle) in your refrigerator for two weeks; no need to mix a new batch from stock.

I don't see the point of going any stronger than the formula I originally came up with. It has proven itself many times over. The only change I might make is to adjust it slightly to Gobgoober's "molar-correct" mix ratio. This is not at all necessary, but does allow the most effective use of the chemicals together.

Here's a re-post of the formula mix instructions, with the adjusted recipe below that:

Preparation of STS:

First, a stock solution is made. It consists of two parts (A and B) that are initially mixed separately, then blended together. Part A is ALWAYS mixed into part B while stirring rapidly. Use distilled water; tap water may cause precipitates to form.

Wear gloves while mixing and using these chemicals, and mix and use in a properly ventilated area. A mask will prevent the breathing of any dust, which is caustic. STS is colorless and odorless, and poses minimal health risks if used as described here. (See material safety data sheet links below). Note that silver nitrate and STS can cause brown stains upon drying, so spray over newspaper and avoid spilling.

Part A: .5 gram silver nitrate stirred into 500ml distilled water
Part B: 2.5 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 500ml distilled water

The silver nitrate dissolves within 15 seconds. The sodium thiosulfate takes 30-45 seconds to dissolve.

The silver nitrate solution (A) is then mixed into the sodium thiosulfate solution (B) while stirring rapidly. The resulting blend is stock silver thiosulfate solution (STS).

This stock solution is then diluted at a ratio of 1:9 to make a working solution. For example, 100ml of stock STS is added to 900ml of distilled water. This is then sprayed on select female plants.

Both the stock STS and the working solution should be refrigerated after use, as well as the powdered chemicals, to avoid activity loss.

The adjusted formula is as follows:

Part A: .7 gram silver nitrate stirred into 40ml distilled water
Part B: 2.6 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 160 ml distilled water

Next, slowly add the silver nitrate solution to the sodium thiosulfate solution while stirring. This combination is then added to 800 ml of distilled water to equal 1 liter. This is your final stock solution. It is diluted 1:9 with more distilled water to make your final working solution, which then gets sprayed on your target plant.

Either formula will work great, so don't sweat it too much. But do that second spraying at the end of week 2... seems to be the key for getting pollen from the more difficult strains.





----------------------------------------

Here is a link to the .pdf file: http://www.ias.ac.in/jbiosci/dec2002/651.pdf --

*He states that fertile male flowers can be induced in female cannabis plants using:*
*gibberellins (GAs) and anti-ethylene agents such as:*
*silver nitrate (AgNO3)*
*silver thiosulphate anionic complex (STS)*
*aminoethoxyvinyl glycene (AVG)*
*and cobalt chloride (CoCl2).*

As this was an aside mentioned in the larger context of Dr. Ram's life work, he does not go into detail regarding the methods of application of these chemicals to achieve the sex reversal. I'm sure the papers Vic mentioned will give the specifics, here they are again (thanks Vic):

Mohan Ram H Y and Juiswal VS. 1972. Induction of male flowers on female plants of Cannabis sativa by gibberellins and its inhibition by abscisic acid. Plants, 105:263-266.

Mohan Ram H Y and Sett R. 1981. Modification of growth and sex expression in Cannabis sativa by aminoethoxyvinylglycine and ethephon. Z. Pflanzenphysiol., 105:165-172.

Mohan Ram H Y and Sett R. 1982. Induction of fertile male flowers in genetically female Cannabis sativa plants by silver nitrate and silver thiosulphate anionic complex. Theor. Appl. Genet., 62:369-375

---------------------------
ref: http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/archive/index.php/t-646.html


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## Jester88 (Feb 13, 2009)

1. mix 2.6 grams of sodium thiosulphate into 600ml of distilled water and mix thoroughly.

2. mix .7 grams of silver nitrate into 100ml of distilled water and mix thoroughly.

3. mix silver nitrate solution into sodium thiosulphate solution while stirring rapidly.

4. top off mixture with distilled water to fill a glass quart jar (canning jar type).

5. use this mix at a 3:1 ratio with distilled water and spray plants to point of run-off.

6. repeat process in 3 days, move target females in at 5 days.

use common safety precautions. rubber gloves, safety glasses, skin covered, respirator preferred.

3:1 ratio of distilled water to stock mix of STS can be played with some. some people use it as diluted as 9:1 and some run it as hot as 1:1.

*so does all this likely make the collodial silver i am thinking of buying

OR is this how they make the collodial silver shit which i can buy**???? *
2. mix .7 grams of silver nitrate into 100ml of distilled water and mix thoroughly.

also like i said ya can make collodial silver with electricity, distilled water and some silver, there was a post n this forum about it 

*meaning i'd still have to get some if this and mix it with collodial silver.
*Part B: 2.6 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 160 ml distilled water


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## eza82 (Feb 13, 2009)

THIS WAS method 1# old as the hills


Jester88 said:


> 1. mix 2.6 grams of sodium thiosulphate into 600ml of distilled water and mix thoroughly.
> 
> 2. mix .7 grams of silver nitrate into 100ml of distilled water and mix thoroughly.
> 
> ...


I would follow this formula out of that thread: It seems more detailed and the results are clear......
method 2 #

Part A: .5 gram silver nitrate stirred into 500ml distilled water
Part B: 2.5 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 500ml distilled water

The silver nitrate dissolves within 15 seconds. The sodium thiosulfate takes 30-45 seconds to dissolve.

The silver nitrate solution (A) is then mixed into the sodium thiosulfate solution (B) while stirring rapidly. The resulting blend is stock silver thiosulfate solution (STS).

This stock solution is then diluted at a ratio of 1:9 to make a working solution. For example, 100ml of stock STS is added to 900ml of distilled water. This is then sprayed on select female plants.

or

METHOD 3#

The adjusted formula is as follows:

Part A: .7 gram silver nitrate stirred into 40ml distilled water
Part B: 2.6 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 160 ml distilled water

Next, slowly add the silver nitrate solution to the sodium thiosulfate solution while stirring. This combination is then added to 800 ml of distilled water to equal 1 liter. This is your final stock solution. It is diluted 1:9 with more distilled water to make your final working solution, which then gets sprayed on your target plant.

*Either formula will work great, so don't sweat it too much. But do that second spraying at the end of week 2... seems to be the key for getting pollen from the more difficult strains.*


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## eza82 (Feb 13, 2009)

Ive heard about *INDIVIDUAL branch pollination useing wax paper* to wrap the target bud..... But this confirms it.....................
"A seeded individual branch can be left to mature on a plant for a bit longer, while harvesting the other seedless buds if they finish first. Just leave enough leaves on for the plant for it to stay healthy."
And dose with above ???!!!!


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## shepj (Feb 13, 2009)

Wow.. that price for silver nitrate isn't bad! Chem suppliers are quadruple that! You guys know your shit! You need to take all this info and compile it into an ebook... definately some smart ppl in here .


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## eza82 (Feb 13, 2009)

tHANKS BRO!! KEEP CHIMMING IN.....GIVES ME IDEAS WHEN PEOPLE GIVE THERE 2 CENTS.... RIGHT, WRONG, THEORY IT DOSE NOT MATTER i JUST APPRICEATE THAT PEOPLE ARE HERE! aND HAVE PEOPLE TO BOUNCE OFF...!!:
SORT of TRYING TO DO A "COMPLETE" hormones schedual for marijuana.... good, bad, indifferent -when, where,how,why -and what additives I can INDUCE more of them or Less which ever mybey the case needed.


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## Jester88 (Feb 13, 2009)

you ignored me ... i just said that was possible what i was asking was...

im asking if you know what the go is if i just got some pre-made collodial silver???? they sell it in some shops and pharmacies..

thats the sort of like the method we use for pollinating bro


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## eza82 (Feb 13, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> you ignored me ... i just said that was possible what i was asking was...
> 
> im asking if you know what the go is if i just got some pre-made collodial silver???? they sell it in some shops and pharmacies..
> 
> thats the sort of like the method we use for pollinating bro


SRY Champ!Ive already smoked to much today! - I see what your saying .... you can buy a pre made and you wanna know if you could use that ?!?!? ..... I would assume yes and method I would use to be safe would 1:9+ distilled water......
Or even 1;1 stock soloution then mix that 1;9+

EDIT-------------------------------------
Collodial Silver id different form this Male induceing formula.... what you want is Silver Thiosulfate. Which is what is used in examples...

ie:
The silver nitrate solution (A) is then mixed into the sodium thiosulfate solution (B) while stirring rapidly. The resulting blend is stock silver thiosulfate solution (STS).


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## shepj (Feb 14, 2009)

I don't know if this has been mentioned, I heard something about aspirin, I can't remember if they said it could prevent or cause hermaphroditing.


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## eza82 (Feb 14, 2009)

shepj said:


> I don't know if this has been mentioned, I heard something about aspirin, I can't remember if they said it could prevent or cause hermaphroditing.


 

In the January, 2004 issue of The Avant Gardener, a monthly newsletter to which you can subscribe at Horticultural Data Processors, editor Thomas Powell notes that gardeners reported all sorts of plants growing remarkably better when given regular doses of tiny amounts of aspirin (1 part to 10,000 parts water; *larger doses actually proved toxic*), and that The Agricultural Research Service is investigating the reasons behind aspirins beneficial effects.


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## shepj (Feb 14, 2009)

hm.. interesting. I know aspiring in a bouquet of flowers preserves them for like a week longer.

Maybe it could preserve or fight against mold.


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## eza82 (Feb 14, 2009)

What would you do????????, 
I have got a small issue with my new op....
had to reset the whole grow due to moving... I have started with 2 clones about 2 months ago.. 

Doing a 13 wk cycle ;2wk-clone, 4-wks veg, 8wks - flower.
I can fit 16 plants in Veg (2x2 e&B)- 200ml orchid pots
and the 2 flowering tables are 4x4 e&b - useing bigger pots

I have 4 Plants in flower.... 
2 of them r @ 4 wks
2 of them r @2wks

The problem: My mothers I vegged for a month and took 21 clones. I flowered .......(got impatient).....Hoping for at least 16 clones to take.... ended with 21 that took.

So hear lies the conudrem........
I have *21* in VEG All placed on the 29th JAN (around 15days)
&
No mothers...... Genrally It will take 1 1/2 mth to generate a mother from cloneing.

No clones - because no mothers (will pull them out of current veging plants)

So I should be takeing clones on the 15th march.

I plan on takeing 4 per week or 8 per fortnight... and the system is setup so... 13 stages for 4 palnts. 

THE QUESTION:
the 21 plants in veg have to orginzed so they all dont go through at once.
My thoughts was to grab 4 per week and place them into flower.... BUT by March 28th I would still have 9 of the orginal clones which would be HUGE.(2mths of veg) I know 3 of them will end up mothers...
So that leaves 6 with no where to go........(with out over loading the system) (and I dont want to kill) what would you suggest.....
either spark the second flower table & Flower the extra 6 now ? OR just let them go in veg for two months.... Dont forget I need HIEGHT consistancy...for the lights..

What would be your soloution ???????


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## eza82 (Feb 14, 2009)

shepj said:


> hm.. interesting. I know aspiring in a bouquet of flowers preserves them for like a week longer.
> 
> Maybe it could preserve or fight against mold.


Ive looked at it before there is a close relative to Auxin hormone in them you right they probably would have a hand in preventing moulds..... but still I would not....... you are better off useing H2o2.
These are just really cheap ways of fucking with your chemical balances, which inturn will effect the hormones....
Stick with plant type additives...IMO


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## Jester88 (Feb 14, 2009)

eza82 said:


> What would you do????????,
> I have got a small issue with my new op....
> had to reset the whole grow due to moving... I have started with 2 clones about 2 months ago..
> 
> ...


do the indoor outdoor system


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## eza82 (Feb 14, 2009)

Up date on flowering outdoor ladies.....


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## Jester88 (Feb 14, 2009)

arent they purrrdy


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## eza82 (Feb 14, 2009)

Mrs big (7ft`er) - she is going to have colias (4) the size of my arm..... lol
Very perddyy......... I have not seen them in a few days they are coming along nicely.. Just got hit with a big dose of PK 13-14 and Pot ash (potassium sulphate)
So I expect they will thincken up alittle now.....


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## Jester88 (Feb 14, 2009)

yup cant wait to see the results bro.


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## eza82 (Feb 14, 2009)

probably still have 2mths left.......


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## shepj (Feb 14, 2009)

I'll probably still be here in two months bro .


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## eza82 (Feb 15, 2009)

shepj said:


> I'll probably still be here in two months bro .


owwwwww your making me feel warm and fuzzy .....lol


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## eza82 (Feb 15, 2009)

-----any critisim ???



eza82 said:


> part 4 # MY THEORY ! THE FORMULA FOR GROWING BIG FAT STINKY FEMALES...................
> 
> *The entire plant contains several hundred known elements/chemicals/hormones/vitimins etc*
> *But the sexual expression & cannibinods of cannibis is determined by its genetic makeup, and by its metabolic temper.*
> ...


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## eza82 (Feb 15, 2009)

Bonsi- thought I would post here as well..... i like looking at them....lol
I have Just started to make my own bonsi about 1 1/2 yrs ago..... From JUNIPER PINE.... 
















Here is my experiment bonsi- BONSI ON A ROCK.........
Under the soil is a rock.... plant has been placed over the top and filled in..... Each month Ill take alittle bit more soil.... Eventually the roots will run down the rock into soil below... Fully exposing the root and base of tree on top of the rock.....










Been going for about 4mths that one!







Getting there SLOWLY......


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## Jester88 (Feb 15, 2009)

shoulda used a mully lol


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## eza82 (Feb 15, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> shoulda used a mully lol


I have one that sprouted outdoors about 4mths ago and is still only 6cm tall.... so it will be going into a bonsi pot and kept alive for a yr or two..... lol and it is showing flower to ! Little mutant !


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## Jester88 (Feb 15, 2009)

true 

hmm damn i had a plant once supposed to be a sativa dominant but my indicas were wAY BIGGER.....

ih well ya get that its gonna be interesting to see what happens with it


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## eza82 (Feb 15, 2009)

Been looking at vegys for minerals, organic type fertz...... 
:​IDEA!

RAW WHITE MUSHROOM (based on 39grms)
Phosphorus 60.2mg ​Potassium 223mg 
Calcium 2.1 mg
Iron 0.3 mg
Magnesium 6.3mg 

I am going to use about 20kg ( local mushroom farm ) and create a compost of mushrooms and seafood (ie:fish,shell fish, etc) with have alot of *cytokinins!* Creating a tea by flushing pile........
Could be a great organic female hormone tea.... for outdoors.....?????


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

sounds interesting.


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Make organic tea.......* from manure and your compost in 2-3 days
Get a clean container ( a bucket, a pail or large jug ), add a gallon of unchlorinated water, pour in what ever manure you intend to use. Bubble it with a cheap aquarium air pump / air stone for two days. Turn off pump, let settle for one hour & it's ready to pour into your feeding container. 
.
Now, some people put their manure in a sock of some sort, like an old sock, panty hose or a old pillow case. That is OK, but I like the extra manure to water interaction you get from direct contact. More surface area exposed - more nutrients transferred.
.
or
.
Get two similar size containers ( a bucket, a pail or large jug ), add a gallon of unchlorinated water, pour in what ever manure you intend to use. Pour it from one container to the other a couple of times - twice daily for three days. Let settle for one hour, pour into your feeding container.

Bat Guano (Either - Higher N or P) 2 to 4 tablespoons per gallon of water.

Bunny Poop - one cup per gallon of water.

Cow Manure - three cups per gallon of water.

Chicken Manure - one cup per gallon of water.

Worm Castings - 4 tablespoons per gallon of water (people argue about this one the most0. They say more, more is better. I disagree - the NPK value of Worm Castings is only .1 % N (soluble) & .9 % (slow release) with a NPK value of only 1-0-0 Worm Castings will not be adding any real amounts of NPK. What they will add - trace minerals & benefical microogranisms (good bacteria & fungi) so, 4 tablespoons gets the job done.

---------------------------------------------------
Add each of these at the rate of one cup, per gallon of unchlorinated water - unless noted otherwise.

Source N P K 

Rabbit manure 2.4-1.4-.6 
Cow manure (dairy) .6-.2-.5 Both cow manures (3) cups per gallon.
Steer manure (beef) .7-.3-.4 
Chicken manure 1.1-.8-.5 
Horse manure .7-.3-.6 
Duck manure .6-1.4-.5 
Sheep manure .7-.3-.9 
Worm castings 1.0-.0-.0 (4) tablespoons per gallon
.
See not hard, just basic math....
.
Ok & one more just for fun : Elephant Poop is 1-.9-.6 on average (plus it is almost odor free). 
Hotlink about Zoo Doo...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...56C0A964958260
.


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

how bout human shit? I got a lot of that. (just playing). Nice chart though.


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

shepj said:


> how bout human shit? I got a lot of that. (just playing). Nice chart though.


Im not sure....but No joke 1/3 of the world do........ most 3rd word countries use human fecial to fert there eatting harvest just not witin 90 days from harest for eatting veggy. Known GOOD fert for centuries, so I guess you could find out, but it would vary depending on your consumption, where as most animal shit is predictable..... they only eat a couple of things.....


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

human feces is more or less, dangerous. We have a lot of bacteria in our food, body, hence, our shit. So it isn't nearly as sanitary as say, cow manure.


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

shepj said:


> human feces is more or less, dangerous. We have a lot of bacteria in our food, body, hence, our shit. So it isn't nearly as sanitary as say, cow manure.


i agree....But -Bacteria is good in alot of forms...some not, but the TOXINS in our excretion from our habitis is my concern....


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

right on. Kinda like you can dilute urine into water for plants.


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

shepj said:


> right on. Kinda like you can dilute urine into water for plants.


Ther are two good things in piss... Urea and Nitrogen, but at the levels verse the toxins its just not worth the time! You are more likely to be slowly poisioning your plant...


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

Heard a cup to a gallon works wonders man


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

shepj said:


> Heard a cup to a gallon works wonders man


I think you will find that is reports from first or second time growers.... You will probably find that the fact they didnt over fert there plants they grew well...thought piss helped..... natural fact soil contains nitrogen already.
IMO dont believe half the shit posted in these forums they are highly missleading...... If you want nitrogen worm casting tea is the best organic form.


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

worm casting tea.. do you think I could sell that to freshman and tell them it will get them high? lol... thx


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

shepj said:


> worm casting tea.. do you think I could sell that to freshman and tell them it will get them high? lol... thx


its diluted worm shit......lol you could try!


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

Will do. 

Would you like to help me real quick? I need a really basic idea for replacing some soil for an outdoor grow. I have a local home depot (which at the moment actually has a lot of gardening soil), can you recommend me one?


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

shepj said:


> Will do.
> 
> Would you like to help me real quick? I need a really basic idea for replacing some soil for an outdoor grow. I have a local home depot (which at the moment actually has a lot of gardening soil), can you recommend me one?


For me - (im australia so brands are not going to help)
for outdoors i USE - 
the best seeding soil i can find, 
coco fiber, (1:5soil)
a few water crystals, 
Cow shit/ compost - diluted and strained 3or 4 times (1;10soil) ( over the soil)
peat moss (1:10soil)
perlite (1:5soil)
potash - 1/2 hand full
worm castings 1:10soil
drench in SEASOL & water in before plant
always a bit of pebble at very bottom of pot or hole for drainage....

THIS IS A DRY WEATHER MIX......


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

Sounds good, I figured I'd ask you, some of the twats on here can't tell me their head from their ass, and I can tell you don't fit into that lot. I was going to go slightly more simple than that, but the general idea is the same.


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

shepj said:


> Sounds good, I figured I'd ask you, some of the twats on here can't tell me their head from their ass, and I can tell you don't fit into that lot. I was going to go slightly more simple than that, but the general idea is the same.


Simple:
Good soil ( it wont matter that much )
worm castings 1:10soil
coco fiber 1:5 soil
And get a mulch for a insulating layer ( or on top)- like sugar cane, straw, pebbles, anything really, use your grass clippings.....


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

I was gonna dig a real big fucking hole..

Fill the bottom with perlite maybe? Then mix the wormies with some soil (maybe I can find organic) I don't remember the ratio I need but I'll find it lol. And I've no idea what in the hell coco fibre is.


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

shepj said:


> I was gonna dig a real big fucking hole..
> 
> Fill the bottom with perlite maybe? Then mix the wormies with some soil (maybe I can find organic) I don't remember the ratio I need but I'll find it lol. And I've no idea what in the hell coco fibre is.


Perlite is a water sponge.... you dont want that on bottom.....
Mix it in with soil at 1:5soil, that is a perfect grow medium as far as density.

If your soil is clay then you need some gardening lime - which is at local nursery, this will break down the clay, with a couple of hand fulls per 1sq meter, this will help on root production.if not your sweet.. 
pebbles or rock layer on bottom will allow for drainage.... maybey juat mixin a few good bags of soil with what you dig out..... will help with densitiy also...


And get a compost bin going...... just cut the bottom off a plastic bin place it on the lawn and start filling with food scraps - not meat. And the worms will come...just lift side grab shovel and grab a spade full of muk from bottom and dillute......
coco fiber - is coconut fiber smashed cocnut skins- highly used in hydro ..pretty new to agriculture.... has netural PH and NPK values.


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

1:5 I will jot this down . Yeah the soil here, in most parts is shit.. very very thick clay. 

so lime breaks that up? Huh no shit.. I always used to chop up mushrooms (not psychedelic ones) and put it in the soil and it always came out black.. was orgasmic.


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

shepj said:


> 1:5 I will jot this down . Yeah the soil here, in most parts is shit.. very very thick clay.
> 
> so lime breaks that up? Huh no shit.. I always used to chop up mushrooms (not psychedelic ones) and put it in the soil and it always came out black.. was orgasmic.


Lime will be the only way you can use your soil then..... Grab a couple of bags of cheap` soil to mix in then aswell..... and some worm castings or Worm farm..... (about $50AUS from my local hardware shop) 
perlite 1:5 soil
for every 1/2 CUBIC METER of your soil use 4 bags of cheap soil and a 2-3 hand fulls of lime
rock bottom....(dig this right down......) Use worm tea and compost juice for veg....
Your set untill flower......


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

beautiful! That is fucking sick, and you are the man. +rep


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

shepj said:


> beautiful! That is fucking sick, and you are the man. +rep


THANX -ANYTIME FELLOW RIU BROTHER !

I like to share....


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

And grab some mushroom compost - I want to see how that go`s.... Plant one in just mushroom compost and cheap soil mix in a pot.... As will I 
But put that in your mix as well,that will assist in flower when it comes.....


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

will try that out. Yeah man I'll prolly ask you a shit ton of questions, so either you'll have a book or hate me  haha. But I really do appreciate it.


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

Please ... and by all means ask away, I like to help a fellow grower.... maybey share a few successful experiments..... how many can you grow ???
And it winter there right ?


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## natmoon (Feb 16, 2009)

Dunno about worrying about all of that malarky
But anyway if you really need to experiment try crushing up a pillpot of vit b12 and another of evening primrose oil and add it to your water every 3 days at about 1 teaspoon per gallon.
It will make your buds fatter for sure,i guarantee it.

My personal beliefs are that high levels of hormones should not be used if you are selling it to others as many people consume the bud and if they are eating the weed then they are also eating the hormones which are not flushable.
Hormones are not smokeable but unless you want to grow tits i wouldnt consume to much evening primrose oil in your weed


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

In some cases we look to induce some we look to decrease from natural levels... but the plant is only capible of producing so much,and will only maintain what it needs.... esentially balancing itself.... Im not adding to them Im changing them, with good results...... as would you if you put evening primrose oil (gamma linolenic acid or GLA), on it.


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

eza82 said:


> Please ... and by all means ask away, I like to help a fellow grower.... maybey share a few successful experiments..... how many can you grow ???
> And it winter there right ?


All right. Yeah it is winter here right now, we have about 2 feet of snow and it's about 30 degrees during the day (yet someone local has innovated a way to grow outdoor). I have 10 C99 F2 seeds and I am looking to aquire Sour Diesel (fems) and potentially get a male C99 and cross breed them. But we have a ton of very high quality bag seed also. The space is unlimited.


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

shepj said:


> All right. Yeah it is winter here right now, we have about 2 feet of snow and it's about 30 degrees during the day (yet someone local has innovated a way to grow outdoor). I have 10 C99 F2 seeds and I am looking to aquire Sour Diesel (fems) and potentially get a male C99 and cross breed them. But we have a ton of very high quality bag seed also. The space is unlimited.


Build a green house/ outdoor hydro...... out of clear plastic and timber....Over the lot...pots and holes..... have a lead out for heat....your away..... at least you can set that up or get seeds germinating..... and dig a few holes to start prep`ing..... and gives some security.....


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## natmoon (Feb 16, 2009)

eza82 said:


> In some cases we look to induce some we look to decrease from natural levels... but the plant is only capible of producing so much,and will only maintain what it needs.... esentially balancing itself.... Im not adding to them Im changing them, with good results...... as would you if you put evening primrose oil (gamma linolenic acid or GLA), on it.


Im not knocking your thread or your ideas,its just that some people like to keep it simple.
I know of many cool methods and bad methods to make weed huge,prim and b12 is the best and easiest and safest imo.
Best of luck with it all anyway


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

Most of the people doing the growing in the winter here are teens though. They aren't anywhere near pro, and half of them can't tell you what THC, CBD, and CBN.


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

shepj said:


> Most of the people doing the growing in the winter here are teens though. They aren't anywhere near pro, and half of them can't tell you what THC, CBD, and CBN.


LOL.....
Knock up a quick outdoor Greenhouse,, by sealing it it will maintain good temps/humidity with heater.... it will get sun.... and they will grow....
In fact in summer they will grow quicker.... just make sure you un seal it....


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

Can I make a small one? Instead of those huge very obvious from ariel view ones? lol.


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

shepj said:


> Can I make a small one? Instead of those huge very obvious from ariel view ones? lol.


Make it to your own needs.... dont put a flat roof on is all...lol
I have one thats about 6m x3m but has no roof... wont work for you....
ive had ones that looked similar to an outdoor toilet..... two over two big holes i had dug.
But if you just want it for seeds it can be as big as a dog house....


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

The seed hath been planted  I can innovate from there lol. thanks


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

natmoon said:


> Im not knocking your thread or your ideas,its just that some people like to keep it simple.
> I know of many cool methods and bad methods to make weed huge,prim and b12 is the best and easiest and safest imo.
> Best of luck with it all anyway


I know.... This is simple just not to understand.... hormones and growth regulators are a FACT in plants you can not get away from... its either you understand all this MERLEKY...or just hope for the best and trust that your getting good info from...here?lol? or the lable (which is usually based on different plants other than MJ) So for me I have to know.... I keep it as simple as I can if you look at my first experiment grow feed schedual...... 
But in truth if you want to keep it simple you would not be here !!!!


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

shepj said:


> The seed hath been planted  I can innovate from there lol. thanks


Second hand timber from local building site - clear plastic drop sheets for painting ( $5each - use multi layers )

Keep us updated ----- take a photo or two !


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## shepj (Feb 16, 2009)

will do come spring, money is short until then.


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## natmoon (Feb 16, 2009)

eza82 said:


> I know.... This is simple just not to understand.... hormones and growth regulators are a FACT in plants you can not get away from... its either you understand all this MERLEKY...or just hope for the best and trust that your getting good info from...here?lol? or the lable (which is usually based on different plants other than MJ) So for me I have to know.... I keep it as simple as I can if you look at my first experiment grow feed schedual......
> But in truth if you want to keep it simple you would not be here !!!!


Its not that i dont understand,its just a waste of time really.
I have a fairly high iq,high enough to know that its mostly bullshit lol
Its a weed and some people just cant grow anything good,simple as that.
The weed wont grow for them whatever they pour on it


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## eza82 (Feb 16, 2009)

natmoon said:


> Its not that i dont understand,its just a waste of time really.
> I have a fairly high iq,high enough to know that its mostly bullshit lol
> Its a weed and some people just cant grow anything good,simple as that.
> The weed wont grow for them whatever they pour on it


hormones bullshit??? You have to look at the agriculture industry properly then family have been in farming for many yrs it would not survive with out.... any way Im with ya on the whole most people dont have green thumbs... they dont listen to there plants...lol
a PLANT IS PLANT!!!!..... we call them WEEDS ??
And ill put money on the fact that you are probably useing now...root powder, IBB IAA, naa, and all hydro additives genrally will have PGR in them.
Hormones and plant growth regulators are plant biology 101.... they are the life cycle and the variable attributes to a plants sex, size, capabilities, fruit,flower,etc its is everything to do with plants ??????????????


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## natmoon (Feb 17, 2009)

eza82 said:


> hormones bullshit??? You have to look at the agriculture industry properly then family have been in farming for many yrs it would not survive with out.... any way Im with ya on the whole most people dont have green thumbs... they dont listen to there plants...lol
> a PLANT IS PLANT!!!!..... we call them WEEDS ??
> And ill put money on the fact that you are probably useing now...root powder, IBB IAA, naa, and all hydro additives genrally will have PGR in them.
> Hormones and plant growth regulators are plant biology 101.... they are the life cycle and the variable attributes to a plants sex, size, capabilities, fruit,flower,etc its is everything to do with plants ??????????????


Its not that i am saying that hormones wont affect the plants growth its just that i think that its a waste of time and money.
Its easy to grow a big plant without any hormones and all i have used is tomato food with seaweed extract in it and some molasses.

I yielded 486 grams off of one plant under a 400 watt lamp in only 16 weeks just by feeding air to the roots.
I make all of my own seeds and the hormones i suggested to use were all naturally occurring.
Nearly all hormones are unflushable so think twice before you use them especially if you eat your weed


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## Jester88 (Feb 17, 2009)

i remember seeing those pics 

hmmm nice yield. and how many plants were under the 400w???? 

also hormoans arent a waste of time.. imagine giving the plant you grew some steroids and adding another 1/3rd of that weight??? or finally teaching yourself to attain the same result in 3 months perhaps...

id agree tho unless your in the mood to fuck with these things and just want to experiment. just grow normal weed if you do it right theres no need for hormoans really ya should have good genetics and that to start with but i have to agree with you hormoans definately arent useless but they definately arent for everyone.

im not using the anymore im just in it to grow kronic EASY WEED


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## natmoon (Feb 17, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> i remember seeing those pics
> 
> hmmm nice yield. and how many plants were under the 400w????
> 
> ...


I am totally not knocking experimenting,have fun feed plants all sorts and see what happens.
If you want more weight be sure to top or fimm and feed some kind of carbs and dont overwater.
All i am saying is that some hormones are expensive and actually not good for you at all especially if you consume the weed.
Not to mention that imo the yield extras are limited.
If you want some giant weed just buy a giant weed strain,the Doctor,from greenhouse seeds is huge and very easy to grow


----------



## born2killspam (Feb 17, 2009)

Half way through the first page so far.. Slow reading if you want to take it to heart, thats for sure.. This is page 8, so hopefully I'll be caught up by Christmas..


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## born2killspam (Feb 17, 2009)

Thread Search seems busted, so I don't know if this link has been posted here.. http://www.phytotechlab.com/ They sell all the cool toys.. I'll also talk around and see if anything useful hormone wise can be produced effectively by kitchen chemists..


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## Jester88 (Feb 17, 2009)

yeah but for low yielders like jack herer if done properly this can maximise the results.. we found steroids were best option just flush it... its the wrong kind of steroid so dont worry it shouldnt shrink ya twinkie none lol. 

like i said im with you im currently for the whole eas grow kronic method atm. fuck im using miracle grow and seasol *and a few other things* ya cant get much easier than that. unlike a lot of people i can growe maself some good dank weed if i want and having t deal with miracle grow and extra NPK when needed is an easy approach. im gonna be getting some new shit soon hopefully im thinkin age old (i think thats the name cant remember) 

but yeah its like eza found out and i found out a while ago hormoans are for experimenting not really for fun. till ya get the hang of it.

also when do you fim your plants and please dont tell me me too look at the thread i just wanna know what stage in life ie how many weeks or how many nodes ect. TA GET AN OUTLAY OF THAT IN YOUR PICS

look at MOBY HASH (pick and mix) *Dinafem cannabis seeds*.if ya wanna see potential 

craps al over doctor  no shit read the writeup..


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## natmoon (Feb 17, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> yeah but for low yielders like jack herer if done properly this can maximise the results.. we found steroids were best option just flush it... its the wrong kind of steroid so dont worry it shouldnt shrink ya twinkie none lol.
> 
> like i said im with you im currently for the whole eas grow kronic method atm. fuck im using miracle grow and seasol *and a few other things* ya cant get much easier than that. unlike a lot of people i can growe maself some good dank weed if i want and having t deal with miracle grow and extra NPK when needed is an easy approach. im gonna be getting some new shit soon hopefully im thinkin age old (i think thats the name cant remember)
> 
> ...


I grow my seedlings under a 400 watt lamp,being very careful not to burn them,gradual lowering of the light etc...
This brings them on real quick,i fimm them very carefully at about 3-4 nodes depending on the stems natural thickness which i get to usually within about 10-14 days of planting the seed.
I already produced a picture pack showing where and when and how to fimm but seeing as you don't want any links to my threADS


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## natmoon (Feb 17, 2009)

I did look at moby hash and as far as i can tell its just another rip off that only really does well outdoors and is totally overpriced.
The Doctor from greenhouse costs only 25 euros for 5 seeds and moby hash costs almost 14 euros per seed.
The Doctor also matures much more quickly so in an indoor environment you'll be talking about feeding and lighting the moby for 4 weeks longer than the Doctor raising the costs and time it will take to get some smoke.
Moby isn't much stronger and isn't really any bigger unless planted outdoors in a sunshine state


----------



## eza82 (Feb 17, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Half way through the first page so far.. Slow reading if you want to take it to heart, thats for sure.. This is page 8, so hopefully I'll be caught up by Christmas..





born2killspam said:


> Thread Search seems busted, so I don't know if this link has been posted here.. http://www.phytotechlab.com/ They sell all the cool toys.. I'll also talk around and see if anything useful hormone wise can be produced effectively by kitchen chemists..


GDAY, and welcome - ill will still be here christmas.....so i guess c u then!lol.... thanx for link


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## eza82 (Feb 17, 2009)

natmoon said:


> If you want some giant weed just buy a giant weed strain,the Doctor,from greenhouse seeds is huge and very easy to grow


Another reason for all of this...... is to grab ANY seed and bring it to it full potential...... close to its geneticly perfect parents/grand parents etc. TAKEING away inhibitors(ABA) and hormone restrictions its brother and sisters may have.


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## born2killspam (Feb 17, 2009)

One thing I don't exactly understand, is the premise of the thread title after reading the OP.. I wouldn't want to replace CO2 addition for hormones if I could do so without losing any yeild/quality.. On the contrary I think extra CO2 would be more important with a successful hormone regimen, and logic dictates that sufficient implementation of both with sufficient light would be the best case scenario..


----------



## eza82 (Feb 17, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> One thing I don't exactly understand, is the premise of the thread title after reading the OP.. I wouldn't want to replace CO2 addition for hormones if I could do so without losing any yeild/quality.. On the contrary I think extra CO2 would be more important with a successful hormone regimen, and logic dictates that sufficient implementation of both with sufficient light would be the best case scenario..


It was a title... that started my research...... Application of Co2 can induce up to 70% better yeilds...... this is known... but the question beckoned WHY? So with investigation found that it is a metabolic response from hormones that intensifies and allows the plants to store more sugars...... So A old theory was I could do that with chemicals/pgrs/hormones.... And in theory I can
: induce a similar size or duplicate the same increase in yeild .... BUT with co2 I could double that...... So I can not replace Co2. 

Also looking at the bi-product of co2 which is Ethylene.... again another reason for such success in Co2 I think has to do with the C2H4 being produced as well.

In short your right..... A plant needs really three basics... water,light,carbon.....everything else is aids in utilizing these elements.


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## shepj (Feb 17, 2009)

dudes.. if you're getting a pound using simple ass methods, just think you could raise your yields to with a little tweaking of the hormones.


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## eza82 (Feb 17, 2009)

shepj said:


> dudes.. if you're getting a pound using simple ass methods, just think you could raise your yields to with a little tweaking of the hormones.




I have already proven... as far as base grow......which his is VERY VERY basic -hand watered 2 plants at time..... he thought he was doing everything right..... untill he saw the clones he gave me..... at 15 days of flower, MINE were the same size as his final result, he dose not tie up his plants no need,,, i had to tie up at about 18days.......
Neither have co2......both running 1000w hps same base nutes (dutch gold with pk 13-14)
My guess will be mine will be 3x his wieght.... 

After I have dialed in the plant metibolic properties & rates then the CO2 can introduced and be FULLY utilized..


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## Jester88 (Feb 17, 2009)

natmoon said:


> I did look at moby hash and as far as i can tell its just another rip off that only really does well outdoors and is totally overpriced.
> The Doctor from greenhouse costs only 25 euros for 5 seeds and moby hash costs almost 14 euros per seed.
> The Doctor also matures much more quickly so in an indoor environment you'll be talking about feeding and lighting the moby for 4 weeks longer than the Doctor raising the costs and time it will take to get some smoke.
> Moby isn't much stronger and isn't really any bigger unless planted outdoors in a sunshine state


1: its not i dont want the links.. its just ya left it for me before and i looked but must have missed the crucial part. 

but true thanks for that... hmmm doctor sounds pretty good now that youve mentioned it lol. and yeah that is a bit of a better idea for indoors but for people who grow outdoors this could be a good choice

anyways thanks for your help man


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## eza82 (Feb 17, 2009)

AND I WANT SOME DOCTOR for outdoors..or....what is your thoughts for mango outdoors... I want to grow a monter to compete with o4`s monster attempt...... NEXT SEASON


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## born2killspam (Feb 17, 2009)

There is something to say for longer finishing strains though.. Not many quick finishers I can say I actually like.. You can't argue with mother nature though if she says you can't grow kali mist outside..
On topic with that, has anybody come across any info regarding hormones and sativa/indica expression in hybrids?


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## eza82 (Feb 17, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> On topic with that, has anybody come across any info regarding hormones and sativa/indica expression in hybrids?


Good question: So you are asking.....

.. is there a difference between hormones produced by indica differ from that of sativa ?....

I dont really know.... ill also research that.. but
First thing I would suggest....is the THC, CBN,CBD.... are produced at different rates....hense the different strengths.... the activity of auxin and cytokinins, and giberellins.... these all have to do with the photosythesis,root mass, and sugar production.... there is a considerable difference between the two in size and shape of leaf... leaf shape are genrally giberellins, stalk length is cytokinins and root mass auxins... So all are working at different rates...

I will have to look into it.......


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## born2killspam (Feb 17, 2009)

eza, have you come across anything on fluorescein as a plant growth regulator? I remember reading that when mature tomato plants were treated with low concentrations fruit growth accelerated rapidly, and was hindered by higher dosages.. Similar result were seen in stem elongation when seedlings were treated similarily..


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## eza82 (Feb 17, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> eza, have you come across anything on fluorescein as a plant growth regulator? I remember reading that when mature tomato plants were treated with low concentrations fruit growth accelerated rapidly, and was hindered by higher dosages.. Similar result were seen in stem elongation when seedlings were treated similarily..


Why do you want to make your plant fluro ?? I have looked around and cant find many papers on it.... ben-6 (BAP) seems to be in same family????????????


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## born2killspam (Feb 17, 2009)

Actually, its the sodium salt of fluorescein that fluoresces, but that would be a hilarious bonus..


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## Jester88 (Feb 17, 2009)

whats a hormoan to produce resin production..

namely resin production not anything else just whats in charge of resin production and ie size and ammount

what hormoans would you say would help


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## eza82 (Feb 17, 2009)

Are you thinkin florigen ?

----------------edit--------
i read that wrong.... you want more tric`s and resin......?????


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## shepj (Feb 17, 2009)

wait up, would that be possible to use something in the watering solution to make the buds fluoresce? I don't care if it tastes like shit.. I'd whip that shit out at a rave!


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## eza82 (Feb 17, 2009)

its not impossible but do`able - not very likley..... there would have to balances of other hormones.... and it would probably carsenagenic... take yrs of trial and error and stunt your growth.


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## Jester88 (Feb 17, 2009)

to eza 

yeah i meant more trichromes and resin production 

and to shepj

ive smoked fluro weed before. dont know how they did it but sure as shit itfas fluro yellow green blue and pink you could pick.. it tasted like absolute crap.


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## eza82 (Feb 17, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> to eza
> 
> yeah i meant more trichromes and resin production


hahahahah... i get to pull my theory again......

*The entire plant contains several hundred known chemicals/hormones/vitimins etc*
*But the sexual expression of cannabis is determined by its genetic makeup, and by its metabolic temper,*
*Which is regulated by the male enzyme andrase and the female enzyme gynase. *
*Environmental & atmosphereic conditions (light, nutrients, soil and water) are keys and may suppress or induce the formation of the dominant enzyme, and allow the opposite sex to express itself partially (hermaphroditism) or completely as a THC bleeding beautiful lady.*
*Transition of female cannibis plants from the vegetative to the flowering phase is associated with a rise in Phos and cytokinin level, while that of male proceeds at a decreasing cytokinin level with an increase in Nitrogen. *
*The activity of cytokinins,avalablity of Gibberellin and level of PHOS are all apparently associated with an enhancement of the female tendency*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------*


*S**o yes BUT...we have to find them is all...*
*I have narrowed it down some what..... *

*Cytokinin* would be made when cells have enough nutrients of the sort normally provided by the root, mainly water and minerals and all other conditions are favorable for growth.
- so is based on the up take of phos for my current experiment

*Gibberellin/Brassinostreroid* would be made when mature cells have less than enough shoot nutrients, i.e. sugar and Oxygen to survive especially if environmental conditions are poor. "GAA intensified the growth of the plants, the average weight of flower, the photosynthesis rate, and the sugar content .
- this is like an emergency response hormone and will help flower grow bigger to be more effective, as in the growth of pistals size & of plant cells helping with division, repoduction, etc... inturn that would induce *more tricromes= More cannibnoids= more resin.* -


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## born2killspam (Feb 17, 2009)

I was doing some googling, and apparently large concentrations are being proposed to irradicate cannabis.. Idea being the police just hose down the odd plant, not even needing to remove it.. And the grower would be like "Damn, my crop got fluoresced!"
I remember positive results came with lowest concentrations though from what I read before though..


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## Jester88 (Feb 17, 2009)

wha if ya just made the buds bigger and they only kept the same amount of trichromes as it can handle without the whormoans = having 6 cones to get the same effect as of three. that would suck lol.... 


hmmm didnt you do that with your bud shot you entered????


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## eza82 (Feb 17, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> wha if ya just made the buds bigger and they only kept the same amount of trichromes as it can handle without the whormoans = having 6 cones to get the same effect as of three. that would suck lol....
> 
> 
> hmmm didnt you do that with your bud shot you entered????


Cyotkinins I have....... GAA or GA3 - not yet.... nxt gen


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## Jester88 (Feb 17, 2009)

aaah ok then sorry about that

please continue lol


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## eza82 (Feb 17, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> wha if ya just made the buds bigger and they only kept the same amount of trichromes as it can handle without the whormoans = having 6 cones to get the same effect as of three. that would suck lol....
> 
> 
> hmmm didnt you do that with your bud shot you entered????


 
that would suck hard, I would almost cry..... the smoke is for me!
I will know Ive been smokin the strain for yrs!


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## Jester88 (Feb 18, 2009)

huh im confused....


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## natmoon (Feb 18, 2009)

eza82 said:


> AND I WANT SOME DOCTOR for outdoors..or....what is your thoughts for mango outdoors... I want to grow a monter to compete with o4`s monster attempt...... NEXT SEASON


Try to find some Donkey Dick if you want the best and the biggest outdoor plant.
I doubt that you will be able to find any unless you know the right people and are lucky.
Fimm the shit out of it until you have about 200 tops and plant it out when its 3 foot tall.
200 x 15 foot colas anyone


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## natmoon (Feb 18, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> wha if ya just made the buds bigger and they only kept the same amount of trichromes as it can handle without the whormoans = having 6 cones to get the same effect as of three. that would suck lol....
> 
> 
> hmmm didnt you do that with your bud shot you entered????


Just use sip watering and a uvb lamp to gain more resin.
Sip watering is basically giving them fairly decent sips of water a couple of times a day instead of flooding them.
Still flood them once a fortnight to flush them through though.
This also helps to stop soil compaction.
IMO,as i have no proof,the plants produce more oils,as they think its dry,to protect themselves.
The uvb makes them produce more and stronger trics also as a protective measure


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## born2killspam (Feb 18, 2009)

Nope, fluorescein.. http://www.jstor.org/pss/2437099 I know its not a widespread idea, I just figured that if anybody had read more about it, it may be you.. Its pretty easy stuff to get your hands on, and its all around cool stuff..


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## natmoon (Feb 18, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Nope, fluorescein.. http://www.jstor.org/pss/2437099 I know its not a widespread idea, I just figured that if anybody had read more about it, it may be you.. Its pretty easy stuff to get your hands on, and its all around cool stuff..


The only real prob with that stuff is knowing how much to use


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## born2killspam (Feb 18, 2009)

Thats why its such a great thing plants clone so easily..


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## eza82 (Feb 18, 2009)

natmoon said:


> Just use sip watering and a uvb lamp to gain more resin.
> Sip watering is basically giving them fairly decent sips of water a couple of times a day instead of flooding them.
> Still flood them once a fortnight to flush them through though.
> This also helps to stop soil compaction.
> ...


This is a great idea & falls in line with my theory - so its a emergency response that will help produce resin!....... but you are naturally inducing it ! Here was my tech version............

*"Gibberellin/Brassinostreroid* would be made when mature cells have less than enough shoot nutrients, i.e. sugar and Oxygen to survive especially if environmental conditions are poor. "GAA intensified the growth of the plants, the average weight of flower, the photosynthesis rate, and the sugar content .
- this is like an emergency response hormone "


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## eza82 (Feb 18, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Nope, fluorescein.. http://www.jstor.org/pss/2437099 I know its not a widespread idea, I just figured that if anybody had read more about it, it may be you.. Its pretty easy stuff to get your hands on, and its all around cool stuff..


First thing that pops to me is the fact it falls into that third group of Growth regulators - NOT FOUND IN PLANTS OR SOILS NATURALLY.
This paper only observes growth over SHORT sand cutlures with one other base medium, and there is no long term effect stated. Botinists have dismissed so thats got to say something........... It seems positive but scary !

Fluorescein FOR DATA RFFERENCE
ABSTRACT: from link above...
The experiments reported confirm the results of earlier experiments in which fluorescein was found to increase growth of plants when applied in low concentration and to inhibit growth when applied in high concentration. Plants treated with low concentrations responded by producing heavier tops, roots, more fruit and also by showing a qualitative improvement. Experiments in sand culture showed practically the same per cent increase as those carried out in plots in heavy adobe, indicating that the effect of fluorescein is general and not restricted to one kind of soil. Sand culture experiments of short duration in the greenhouse and the darkroom, when giving to young tomato plants fluorescein of high and low concentration, showed that a definite acceleration or inhibition of stem elongation was evident within three days. A possible explanation is discussed of the mechanism of the action of fluorescein.


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## natmoon (Feb 18, 2009)

eza82 said:


> This is a great idea & falls in line with my theory - so its a emergency response that will help produce resin!....... but you are naturally inducing it ! Here was my tech version............
> 
> *"Gibberellin/Brassinostreroid* would be made when mature cells have less than enough shoot nutrients, i.e. sugar and Oxygen to survive especially if environmental conditions are poor. "GAA intensified the growth of the plants, the average weight of flower, the photosynthesis rate, and the sugar content .
> - this is like an emergency response hormone "


Agreed but,sorry to always be seeming negative,gibberilins in all forms can cause hermiefication


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## born2killspam (Feb 18, 2009)

GA3 imbalances affect the ethylene pathways in the plants.. Depending on extent, and time of occurance this can have differing effects.. It might make the game a little risky, but there is no shortage of info on this one imparticular, so with proper research, and careful application its more than likely a regimen can be found that yields a good bonus with little to no risk..
And I think you just gotta say risks be damned, this is for research.. I wouldn't be experimenting on a crop I was relying on to finish..


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## natmoon (Feb 18, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> GA3 imbalances affect the ethylene pathways in the plants.. Depending on extent, and time of occurance this can have differing effects.. It might make the game a little risky, but there is no shortage of info on this one imparticular, so with proper research, and careful application its more than likely a regimen can be found that yields a good bonus with little to no risk..
> And I think you just gotta say risks be damned, this is for research.. I wouldn't be experimenting on a crop I was relying on to finish..


Im not saying dont do it just highlighting the risks


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## eza82 (Feb 18, 2009)

natmoon said:


> Agreed but,sorry to always be seeming negative,gibberilins in all forms can cause hermiefication


 
Earlier in thread we have spoken extensivly about GA3 and it pros and cons...... Too many good reports.
here is some of the info..

*UNDER A LINK on MAIN PAGE: REF to GA3*

*Recipes FOR GA3 - folia spray with penotrator i would suggest or paste*
*( this is a studied recipe so I figure we should stick to it)*

PPM 50 - GA mg 125 Water 2400ml Purpose = early flower 
PPM 200 - GA mg 125 Water 600ml Purpose = early flower 
PPM 800 - GA mg 125 Water 160ml Purpose = blossom set
PPM 2000 - GA mg 125 Water 60ml Purpose = Seed germ
1%paste - GA mg 125 Water 5ml Purpose = growth promoter

Too much youll turn your girl into boys or hermi`s

Careful shit is nasty
Although GA is not listed as a "poison", the following precautions should be observed: Flush with water any GA that may get into the eye. Avoid skin contact if possible. If skin contact is suspected, wash with soap and water. *Do not re-enter an area after spraying until the GA spray is fully dry*. Avoid ingestion of GA. 
RESULT: 
Premature flowering. If a plant is sufficiently developed, premature flowering may be induced by direct application of GA to young plants. This action is not sustained and treatment may have to be repeated. Formation of male flowers is generally promoted by concentrations of 10 to 200 ppm., female flowers by concentrations of 200 to 300 ppm. Concentrations of more than 600 ppm markedly suppresses initiation of both male and female flowers. 

Increased growth. GA applied near the terminal bud of trees may increase the rate of growth by stimulating more or less constant growth during the season. In a Department of Agriculture experiment, the GA was applied as a 1% paste in a band around the terminal bud of trees. Treatment was repeated three times during the summer. Walnut tee growth was 8.5 ft. for treated trees, 1.5 ft. for untreated trees

http://www.crfg.org/tidbits/gibberellic.html

another : Fruit trees.....
A spray of GA3 (gibberellic acid) at a concentration of 15&#8211;30 ppm at full bloom significantly increased yields (by 50&#8211;400%). In young trees (4&#8211;5 years old), a narrow (2&#8211;3 mm) girdling at the time of sprouting, together with GA3, gave best results.

MAKE YOUR OWN GAA:
Gibberellin is extracted from cucumber seeds, fresh cantelope seeds, dried corn kernels, and from pencil rod, lupine, and pinto beans. Soak 200 grams of powdered seeds in 110 ml of a mixture of acetone (10 parts), isopropyl alcohol (5 p), ethanol (2 p), and water (5 p). Filter the mush and rinse it with 20 ml acetone and 20 ml isopropyl alcohol. Combine the rinse and the mother liquor, then evaporate the solvent. Dissolve the gum in alkaline water for experimental use

A retail product...
*Falgo *contains gibberellic acid (GA3). Gibberellins are compounds that are naturally produced within plants to stimulate growth. *Fine *has developed a unique fermentation method of naturally producing GA3 and markets the compound for use in ornamental plants as *falgro*. *Falgro *has a huge variety of useful applications including elongation of peduncles in Pompom Chrysanthemums, earlier flowering and increased yield in Statice and accelerated plant growth with increased number of flowering stems in Gypsophila. Offering flexibility of use, *falgro *is formulated as easy to use liquid, powder and tablet formulations.
http://www.fine-agrochemicals.com/Co...rodH.asp?id=21


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## born2killspam (Feb 18, 2009)

> MAKE YOUR OWN GAA:
> Gibberellin is extracted from cucumber seeds, fresh cantelope seeds, dried corn kernels, and from pencil rod, lupine, and pinto beans. Soak 200 grams of powdered seeds in 110 ml of a mixture of acetone (10 parts), isopropyl alcohol (5 p), ethanol (2 p), and water (5 p). Filter the mush and rinse it with 20 ml acetone and 20 ml isopropyl alcohol. Combine the rinse and the mother liquor, then evaporate the solvent. Dissolve the gum in alkaline water for experimental use


Where did you find this? That solvent mix is messed up.. I'm not saying it won't work, I'm just saying it's not necessary to mix up every polar solvent in the average lab.. Pick one (not water) and go..


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## Jester88 (Feb 18, 2009)

haha i said that earlier lol...


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## born2killspam (Feb 18, 2009)

I'd go with 99% isopropyl since its gonna be the comprimise between being easy to get in a trustworthy grade, and quick evaporating..
That mix is like the aqua regia of polar solvents..


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## shepj (Feb 18, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> to eza
> 
> yeah i meant more trichromes and resin production
> 
> ...


but did it look cool? lol i'm kidding guys, I don't mind seeing purple and fluoro weed would look cool, but the whole weed color shit doesn't give me a boner. I like good weed, even if it looks shitty.


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## eza82 (Feb 18, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Where did you find this? That solvent mix is messed up.. I'm not saying it won't work, I'm just saying it's not necessary to mix up every polar solvent in the average lab.. Pick one (not water) and go..


ALL ABOUT HEMP... US GOV HEMP cultivation handbook from like the 30`s lol.


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## Jester88 (Feb 18, 2009)

shepj said:


> but did it look cool? lol i'm kidding guys, I don't mind seeing purple and fluoro weed would look cool, but the whole weed color shit doesn't give me a boner. I like good weed, even if it looks shitty.


not really it was just abnormally coloured weed that smoked up like shit lol


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## born2killspam (Feb 18, 2009)

I had weed like that once.. Had a nug on a work table, was planning to roll a joint.. Got side-tracked and started spray painting some signs.. End result, fluorescent orange weed..


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## eza82 (Feb 20, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> I had weed like that once.. Had a nug on a work table, was planning to roll a joint.. Got side-tracked and started spray painting some signs.. End result, fluorescent orange weed..


My brother done that to me once..... We were sparying a car..... had bowl and bong in the room...... hour of paint and the residue on the bowl changed the colour of the chop and the bong had a new look!


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## eza82 (Feb 20, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> I'd go with 99% isopropyl since its gonna be the comprimise between being easy to get in a trustworthy grade, and quick evaporating..
> That mix is like the aqua regia of polar solvents..


Have you experience in these extractions??


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## Jester88 (Feb 20, 2009)

half the people who make hash oil will have experience in these extractions,..

and hes right eza you do only need one..... pure alcohol is the best but even metho will suffice more than likely...


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## born2killspam (Feb 20, 2009)

I've done alot of plant extractions of various types, but not this.. In almost all cases your initial extraction is aimed at the broad side of a barn.. Depending on the goal after that you can use acid/base extractions to purify a bit if you know the rough chemistry of the crude extract.. If you really need purity after that you need to use chromatographic type techniques, or specialized filtering that accomplishes basically the same thing.. Obviously that devastates yield..
I'd rather not advise ppl to work with acetone in any format that would be suitably clean for this extraction.. Acetone is deceptively dangerous! I don't want to be responsible for a sparking accident.. The news story would probably go "Another meth lab exploded today...." If you go to the drug store you can probably get 500mL of 99% isopropanol for $3.. If GA3 is soluble in that then you're good to go.. Adding extras is only going to pull even more impurities, we won't be ANYWHERE near saturation.. Everclear would be another option.. Heck any liquor, but the extra water takes longer to evaporate..

Edit: And I gotta agree with Jester.. Your chemistry teacher taught you everything you need to know for this.. Usually HS chem is brutally oversimplified, but not in this case..


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## Jester88 (Feb 20, 2009)

yeah thats the problem with metho too bit dirty and got water.... longer evaporative times ....


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## born2killspam (Feb 20, 2009)

And the only safe enough form of acetone I can think of is scented nail polish remover..
On the other hand, plants aren't poisoned nearly as easily as humans.. Not all, but alot of my experimentation was aimed towards personal consumption..
I'd advise ppl to hunt down 'old' chemistry text books from the 60's.. They're on the net.. Some describe alot of techniques to do some useful stuff.. Beware though, the reason you need old books is because they smartened up and stopped teaching kids how to do stuff that could kill their whole family in seconds.. Some of those things TERRIFY me.. They make anything in those anarchist cookbooks seem like childs play..


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## eza82 (Feb 20, 2009)

I would not do it myself.... i would be one of those stories..... he left the lid off he was too lazy and gased himself.........


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## born2killspam (Feb 20, 2009)

Its perfectly safe with alcohol.. Well, son't work with 99% alcohol in candle light, but aside from that its pretty harmless..


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## eza82 (Feb 20, 2009)

JESTER - you seen these....http://bcseeds.com/p57/Euphoria-Unlimited/product_info.html
Strongedt strain in the world...........36%thc


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## Jester88 (Feb 20, 2009)

have now and all i can say is what a jibb. 995 dollars CAD i could never afford that...


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## eza82 (Feb 20, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> have now and all i can say is what a jibb. 995 dollars CAD i could never afford that...


There elephant is 34% last yrs highest
& there upstate.... both under 500


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## eza82 (Feb 20, 2009)

MEDI buds.. I think this would be best for me, to help with the back... I think this will put you on your arse numb to the world.


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## born2killspam (Feb 20, 2009)

I'd have to say the best medicinal weed I've ever smoked is actually skunk#1.. Its so smooth and mellow and relaxing, yet still allows you to function..

As for the seed company, I wanna know if they're legit.. They have some artistically genius photographers, 'literally' unbelievable strains, only accept cash, and claim to be like 8 years in business, yet nobody here knows them.. Hmmm???


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## ProfessorMembrane (Feb 21, 2009)

The only review on their website for the "Euphoria" stuff is in French, I think maybe they didn't hire someone who reads French to read these reviews before they get posted. All the reviews on the site are positive (any site that won't let people post negative reviews is automatically suspect, imo), people raving about how wonderful they are, then the only review on Euphoria is a person asking in French why their seeds haven't arrived yet. They don't have any kind of support forums, meaning they don't want to be questioned publicly in a forum where they feel obligated to answer.

They claim 36% THC (impossible without tainted samples created by mixing kief or other refinements with finished flowers), 1600 grams per square meter, and only 47 days of flowering time. The old adage almost always holds, if it's too good to be true, it probably is.

The Pure from Flying Dutchmen is a reasonably well maintained line of the original Skunk #1 IBL, and produces significant yields as well as potent medicine. Papaya from Nirvana is another decently potent, high yielding, pleasant tasting strain that can be obtained on the cheap. If you want to go out and really spend, hit up Mr. Nice Seeds for some Black Widow (Shanti's original White Widow), Federation Seed Co. for Hawaiian Sativa & Romulan (my personal favorites), or if you want to try a new breeder, hit www.sanniesshop.com and try Sannie, his Herijuana IBL is pretty lovely.


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## eza82 (Feb 21, 2009)

Just checked seed bank review by greenman : BC SEEDS in rip off section...


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## spiked1 (Feb 21, 2009)

[quote

They claim 36% THC (impossible without tainted samples created by mixing kief or other refinements with finished flowers), 1600 grams per square meter, and only 47 days of flowering time. The old adage almost always holds, if it's too good to be true, it probably is.

[/quote]
My feelings exactly.


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## born2killspam (Feb 21, 2009)

If they're claiming 1600g/m^2 then its worse than a rip-off.. They must be cops!!


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## eza82 (Feb 21, 2009)

ahhhhhhhhhhh its nice to dream though.........lol..... it would Win all the cups too..........


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## Jester88 (Feb 21, 2009)

spiked1 said:


> [quote
> 
> They claim 36% THC (impossible without tainted samples created by mixing kief or other refinements with finished flowers), 1600 grams per square meter, and only 47 days of flowering time. The old adage almost always holds, if it's too good to be true, it probably is.


 My feelings exactly.[/quote]
hes right
although
fact being is it could happen one day but alas they are only dream percentages atm im sure with a lot of refining it could be a possibility but not something any of us are liable to see except by fluke and freaks of nature lol. 

bc bud depot lol prolly both the same and yeah jibbs... 

if your looking i highly recommend pick n mix dude check out there web page. Cannabis Seeds - _Pick_ 'n' _Mix_ Cannabis Seeds

these guys have a good selection accurate writeups and alls i can say is ive never been jibbed by these guys once there the most reliable ive found. 

pluss they stock heaps of different seeds from different banks and you can buy single seeds so you can pick n match your order..

my advise check out the 
white and medical strains section first


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## neekz (Feb 21, 2009)

http://www.worldwide-marijuana-seeds.com/ is like pick n mix. (pick n mix not u.s. shipping friendly).


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## eza82 (Feb 21, 2009)

neekz said:


> http://www.worldwide-marijuana-seeds.com/ is like pick n mix. (pick n mix not u.s. shipping friendly).


There is a few of us here that call Australia home bro..


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## Jester88 (Feb 21, 2009)

eza82 said:


> There is a few of us here that call Australia home bro..


huh???? they ship everywhere except america bro



neekz said:


> http://www.worldwide-marijuana-seeds.com/ is like pick n mix. (pick n mix not u.s. shipping friendly).


 nah pick n mix dont ship to the u.s.a sorry to say. 
But yeah that site is a lot like pick n mix and it does ships to the u.s.a (guaranteed shipping apparently) i cant vouch for these guys havent heard much about them.. but id say they look good ...


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## eza82 (Feb 21, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> huh???? they ship everywhere except america bro quote]
> 
> I was trying to say that PICK N MIX is australia "proven" friendly.... and US shipping friendly dose not apply to us aussies!


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## Jester88 (Feb 21, 2009)

lol gotcha. 

ummmm yeah they definately are good at what they do i know that much


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## eza82 (Feb 21, 2009)

*THC*
*the nxt experiment#*

I started to think about THC again... a previous post had theory about dose watering leaving it on brink of water starvation....... which is not a bad theory in all just alittle off..... 
IMO it will induce the hormone ABA in which the plant will stop growing ands protect it self ..... it will think its in drouhgt. But this is not nesseceraly a bad thing as my first thought was (less yield)... I dont think this method would work BUT was aong the right lines.....

So I continued to do my research in why MJ produce THC... I have come across many reasons of why & how`s the MJ plant produces THC: like to spread seed by sticking to fur,scraping make it think its dieing,types of fertz & poop,rusty nail through stalk and man more carck theories...
this just made me laugh with some of the shit stated.... 

So this is the theory : it comes down to *Environmental Influence again........* The best way to take a look at how environment affects THC production is to look where on the planet cannabis has naturally adopted a high THC profile. As cannabis has spread around the world it has taken on many different traits to help in its adaptation to varied areas such as africai, south america,vietnam,etc. 
*ULTRAVIOLET (LACK OF ....HID HAVE NO UVA UVB)*
The best drug varieties have always been found at equatorial or high altitude locations. The one thing which both of these variables have in common is high light intensity and a large amount of ultraviolet (UV) light in the spectrum. 
Recent Swiss trials in outdoor plots of clones grown at different altitudes have shown that there is correlation between higher altitude and increased potency (although there seems to be a trade off in yield). 

This likely means that THC-rich resins act to protect the plant and its seed from both higher light intensities and ultraviolet presence. It's no surprise that cannabis has developed a chemical to protect itself against the Sun's damaging UV rays, as they can be injurious to all forms of life.

Therefore a high-THC plant grown in a low THC environment will likely produce a medium THC result.

*Humidity* also plays a role in plant resin production. Although some potent equatorial strains do seem to occur in high humidity areas, most high in thc -tested strains have evolved in drier areas, like Afghanistan. The aridity of the areas of Afghanistan where Indica strains have evolved is quite apparent by the trait of large dense flower clusters. 

There are many examples of non-cannabis plants producing resins in order to protect themselves from drying out. The waxy coating on cacti and other succulent plants is a prime example.

Marijuana flowered in humid conditions will often have a longer stalk on the glandular trichome than the same strain grown in drier conditions. While this may give the appearance of being very crystallized, it will likely contain less THC than the same plant grown in a drier environment. Another problem with longer trichome stalks is that the gland heads are more likely to break off during handling.

This is probably why AN outdoors high so much BETTER when you get good genetics..

*Experiment:*
*IM Buying a aquirium light tomorrow! & humidity to around 60% *
*This will be easy to compare THC for I have smoked the same bud for yrs!*
*I will run the light for around 5hrs of the light cycle for the last 3 weeks of flower.*
*note: UV can kill your plants by burning them...*





Catalina 5000k - UVA/UVB 55w
$ 30.00

*I will ramp this up slowly - probably up to a 4 globe setting with 6-8hr period... or untill the plants tell me ENOUGH!*


pLACES TO FIND THESE LIGHTS
SUN TANNING, INSECT ATTRACTION,REPTILE, AQUIRIUM
Forensics, , psoriasis, polymerization, , Dermatology, Night Clubs

------------------------------------------------------------ 

THIS IS WORTH WATCHING!!!!!!!!!!
Here is the best Youtube vid on the subject and a really good watch, about 15mins, Old school dude but proffesor like stoner... if I have not convinced you he will....

*THC, UVB and Me*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPcpt3Be28o

*---------------------------------------------------------------*


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## eza82 (Feb 21, 2009)

This is todays UV index----- Out doors in the top end of australia sounds good !

But what I want to replicate environmentally is : Vietnam
UV Index: 6-11 (Extreme)- during natural growing period. sep-may







Relative Humidity: 50% - 100% - during natural growing period. sep-may







forecast: 
UV index:sat7 sun8 mon 8 tue8 wen8 thu8 fri8 sat7
Temp max(°C)29 33 35 33 33 33 32 30 Temp min (°C)21 21 23 22 22 22 22 22.

*Some more examples of HIGH THC producing areas and ther UV index*​ 

*Country (City) . J F M A M J J A S O N D*​ 
Brazil (Rio de Janeiro) 23°S 12 11 9 7 5 5 5 7 9 10 12 12​ 
Kenya (Nairobi) 1°S 12 13 13 12 11 10 11 11 12 12 12 11​ 
Vietnam (Hanoi) 21°N 6 8 10 11 11 11 12 12 10 8 6 6​ 

Cuba (Havana) 23°N 6 8 9 10 10 11 12 11 10 8 6 5​ 
Panama (Panama) 9°N 9 11 12 12 11 11 12 12 12 11 9 9​ 
*& for comparison*
Australia (Sydney) 34°S 9 9 7 5 3 2 3 4 6 7 9 10 
Australia (Darwin) 13°S 12 13 12 10 8 8 8 10 11 13 12 12​ 
USA (Los Angeles) 34°N 3 4 6 8 9 10 10 9 7 5 3 2 
USA (New York) 41°N 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 8 6 3 2 1​ 

So it seems that good pot outdoors is grown in the range of about 25 degrees either side of the equator.... so there is room for experiments..​


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## eza82 (Feb 21, 2009)

My nxt problem the conversion

exposure to the B-band of ultraviolet light (UVB), light at a wavelength of:
270-315 nm is about where coral and reptiles grow the best; and the range Proffessor stoner said was aroun 270 - 300 nm so my range is in there somewhere.............

The light I have suggested is around 350nm - at 1 foot so distance will have to be played with...
note:do not look into globe you will burn eyes
------------------------------------------------------------------------
this will help:

*The Ultraviolet Spectrum*

Ultraviolet refers to all electromagnetic radiation with wavelengths in the range of 10 to 400 nanometers, or frequencies from 7.5E14 to 3E16 Hz. 

The UVA range is wavelengths from 315 to 400 nanometers. Wavelengths from about 345 to 400 nM are used for "Blacklight" effects (causing many fluorescent objects to glow) and are usually very slightly visible if isolated from more visible wavelengths. Shorter UVA wavelengths from 315 to 345 nM are used for suntanning. 

UVB refers to wavelengths from 280 to 315 nanometers. These wavelengths are more hazardous than UVA wavelengths, and are largely responsible for sunburn. The ozone layer partially blocks these wavelengths.
ref: http://members.misty.com/don/uvbulb.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what i need is the conversion of nm in respect to the UV output of the sun..... ie: UV of 12 is a NM reading of ??


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## eza82 (Feb 21, 2009)

*combinations and distance is the nxt challenge:*


*a combination of 55w 1meter away and this one up close.. *

Compact Germicidal UV Lamp (15W, 25W, 23W)*Product Description*
Compact UV Germicidal lamp, Double H shape / Single H shape 
Material: High Purity Quartz Glass 
Voltage: 110 to 230V AC 
Wattage: 15W, 25W, 23W 
Base: E27 / E14 
Lamp diameter: 12mm 
*Peak: 253.7nm / 253.7nm+185nm* 
Average life time: 8, 000hrs 

Feature: Compact and mini size, easy to install, external ballast is not needed 
Applications: Easily installed in table lamp as a portable sterilizer for Kitchen, Bed room, Office, Elevator, etc. 
Trademark:CnlightModel: 15W, 25W, 23WCompany:Cnlight Co., Ltd.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have found a breakdown of the light spectrums givin out by uva uvb lights for reptiles....

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*The "photobiological activity" of a lamp: measuring the UV Index *[/FONT]

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherapyphosphor-tests.htm#UVI

the conversion between* watts vs UV vs nm*
this will be helpfull to figure out what light
.


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## BeCeLivin (Feb 21, 2009)

Can you put a schedule together so if we want to put these hormones into action we can do so in an easy to understand formula. Maybe a list of quality products that are available?


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## shepj (Feb 21, 2009)

I thought they were already in an easy to understand formula? 

Some things are trial and error, (correct me if I am wrong), but with soil conditions, plant genetics, weather/temperature, it would be more difficult to say "put this in your plant day one" "Put this in your plant day two".. it looks like some things one needs to play around with until the mixing of hormones suits their needs. No?


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## born2killspam (Feb 21, 2009)

Hormone supplimentation in humans is a tricky game that requires constant observation/tests to make sure the good outweighs the bad.. Definately an idividualized regimen.. Logic dictates that a similar scenario will exist with plants, but luckily we don't need to care about as many aspects of health..


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## eza82 (Feb 21, 2009)

BeCeLivin said:


> Can you put a schedule together so if we want to put these hormones into action we can do so in an easy to understand formula. Maybe a list of quality products that are available?


 
Ive been at this for weeks.... the list just grows....
But to be honest there is no REAL manual for hormones they are NOT completely understood. The directions on labels usually pretain to the crop it was bottled for.
Yes we will but it will take some time... to put together feed and dose for MJ...


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## eza82 (Feb 21, 2009)

Come on guys what do you think of my THEORY on UVB`s and UVA`s and the potencey/level of THC?
I think Im onto something here....................


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## born2killspam (Feb 21, 2009)

Disregarding hormones, there is alot of experiments with UVB to increase trichrome production.. Tracing back to the landrace strains origins you're right, there is definately a correlation.. Look at the extreme differences between equatorial sativas, and northern ruderalii for instance.. 
Difficulty seems to be figuring out what is the result of nature vs nourture.. I realize that nature is basically the result of thousand of generations of specific nourture..
The trend does seem to definately be that nature trumps nourture, but ppl have shown some impressive results with UVB on less potent genetics..
I also realize that nourture will affect hormone levels which then affect growth patterns, but unless you can enhance the UVB effect with a specific treatment, the hormone aspect becomes a moot point to any practical application..


----------



## eza82 (Feb 21, 2009)

*UV radiation*

Electromagnetic radiation or "light" is the collective name for all forms of energy that move with the speed of light. There are different "types of light" in the spectrum, depending on their energy, which is related to the wavelength (freqency) of the light: the lower the wavelength, the higher the energy. 

The human eye is sensitive for only a part of the spectrum, referred to as "visible light": between 400 and 780 nm (1 nm = 10-9 meter). The wavelength of the light determines the colour: 400 nm is blue, 700 nm is red. 




The part of the spectrum immediately to the left of blue, between 200 and 400 nm is the ultraviolet light (UV). The UV is usually divided into three components, with increasing energy: 

UV-A: 320-400 nm
UV-B: 280-320 nm
UV-C: 200-280 nm
Of these UV-B is the most dangerous form, since part of it reaches ground level, where it can affect human health (_e.g._ cause certain forms of skin cancer) and damage the DNA of flora and fauna. Note that the wavelength of the division between the UV-A and UV-B bands is sometimes set at 315 nm (see note below). 

The UV-C energy is potentially more dangerous, but it decreases dramatically as ozone increases, because of the strong absorption in the 200-280 nm wavelength band. The UV-B is also strongly absorbed, but a small fraction reaches the surface. The UV-A is only weakly absorbed by ozone, with some scattering of radiation near the surface. 
 CLICK TO ENLARGE!!!!!!!!!!
_The curve shows a typical vertical profile of ozone in the midlatitudes of the northern hemisphere: the concentration of ozone as function of altitude. Superimposed on the figure are plots of UV radiation as a function of altitude for UV-A, UV-B and UV-C. The width of the bar indicates the amount of energy as a function of altitude. UV-C is absorbed completely in the stratosphere. Of the global UV radiation at the ground, 94% is UV-A, 6% is UV-B. _
figure adapted from Stratospheric Ozone, An Electronic Textbook 
Atmospheric ozone thus shields life at the surface from most of the harmful components of the solar UV radiation. Chemical processes in the atmosphere can effect the level of protection provided by the ozone in the upper atmosphere. 




Ozone decline in the stratosphere can be caused by: 

Chemical processes resulting from the breakdown of CFCs and other ozone depleting gases.
Changes in the stratospheric meteorology, _e.g._ due to changes in the climate and in trace gases such as nitrous oxide (N2O), water (H2O) and methane (CH4).
Thinning of the atmospheric ozone in the stratosphere leads to elevated levels of UV-B at ground level and increases the risks of DNA damage in living organisms. A 1% decrease in ozone, for example, will lead to an estimated increase of UV-B of about 2%. 

It is therefore important to monitor the UV radiation that reaches the ground. One of the tools for this is the UV index. 



*Note on the UV-A & UV-B wavelength ranges*

The wavelength of the devision between UV-A and UV-B varies in the literature and this may lead to some confusion. 

The _Commission Internationale de l'Éclairage_ (_International Commission on Illumination_) uses 280-315 nm as UV-B and 315-400 nm as UV-A. 
Other sources put the devision point at 320 nm, as in the above given definition. In particular this is done in medical (dermatological) applications, as well as in cosmetics. Also several text books on UV use 320 as devision point. 
To avoid confusion, one could use the following short-hand notation: dUVB for 290-320 nm and dUVA for 320-400 nm, where "d" stands for dermatological, and use UVA and UVB for the 315-nm devision quantities. The use of the prefix "d" is not very common, though. 




Within the TEMIS project, the data supplied are the UV index and UV dose, which cover (parts of) both UV-A and UV-B. The precise wavelength range that is relevant for these quantities depends on the action spectrum applied: 

UV range relevant for *erythema*: 280 - 400 nm
UV range relevant for *general DNA damage*: 256 - 370 nm
*UV index*

The erythemal UV index -- usually simply called the UV index (UVI) -- is an estimation of the UV levels that are important for the effects on the human skin, where 1 unit equals 25 mW/m2. It is usually given for local solar noon, when the Sun is highest in the sky, and it is valid for clear-sky conditions: effects of clouds shielding part of the UV radiation are _not_ taken into account. 

The erythemal UV index is an artificial quantity derived from the erythemal irradiance, which is an integration of the UV irradiance at the ground weighted by the CIE spectral action function. The CIE action spectrum is a model for the susceptibility of the caucasian skin to sunburn (erythema). It is proposed by McKinlay & Diffey (1987) and adopted as a standard by the _Commission Internationale de l'Éclairage_ (_International Commission on Illumination_). 
Of the global UV radiation at the ground, 94% is UV-A, 6% is UV-B.
Of the erythemal UV irradiance, however, 17% is UV-A, 83% is UV-B. 
 CLICK TO ENLARGE!!!!!!!!!!
_The CIE action spectrum is a model for the susceptibility of the caucasian skin to sunburn (reddening of the skin; erythema). It was proposed by McKinlay & Diffey (1987) and adopted as a standard by the _Commission Internationale de l'Éclairage_ (International Commission on Illumination). _
===> Some more info on action spectra​ 
 CLICK TO ENLARGE!!!!!!!!!!
_Ultraviolet spectrum measured with the Brewer Spectrophotometer at De Bilt (Netherlands) on 1 June 2002, a completely cloud-free day. Also drawn is the CIE erythemal action spectrum. The multiplication of these two gives the erythemal UV spectrum, and the surface below this graph (shown in yellow) is the UV index. The value of the UVI from this measurement is 6.3. _
figure by Marc Allaart, KNMI, De Bilt 
Ground-based measurements such as the one from the previous graph give UVI values for these specific sites at these specific moments in time only. In order to obtain the UVI for all locations, it must be computed from total ozone amounts, in combination with the solar zenith angle (SZA): the angle from which the Sun shines. The UV index is usually given at noon of the local solar time: the moment when the Sun is highest in the sky (_i.e._ in the zenith); this moment is therefore _not_ noon of the local time zone. 
Ground-based measurements of the UVI and simultatiously measured total ozone column (TOC) values have resulted in a parametrisation of the UVI as function of TOC and SZA, both at local solar noon. The TOC at local solar noon is determined from satellite observations in combination with data assimilation, which uses meteorological fields (wind, temperature, pressure) to obtain a global ozone field at local solar noon. The SZA at local solar noon depends on the latitude and the day of the year. The UV index thus is a measure for the amount of UV radiation valid for clear-sky conditions and at local solar noon. This does not say much about the erythemal UV dose: the total amount of UV that actually can reach the human skin during a day. 


ref: http://www.temis.nl/uvradiation/info/index.html


*So essentually its; UVB`s (280-300nm) is the spectrum that we are looking for........UVB in natural sunlight is 290-295nm.*


*UVB`s on REPTILES HAve BEEN TESTED!*


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]REPTILE TEST FOR UVB - [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We tested samples of fluorescent lamps from each brand which has been alleged to have caused photo-kerato-conjunctivitis in reptiles, and compared the test results with those from other brands. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Broadband UVB meters did not prove very helpful in determining the cause of the problem; they indicated that at the distances at which problems occurred, the total UVB (in microwatts per square centimetre) from these lamps was no higher than that found in natural sunlight. However, total UVB measurements give little indication of the photobiological activity of the lamp. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Measurements of the UV Index (which does provide a measure of this) revealed that whereas 100 µW/cm² total UVB from sunlight was recorded as yielding a UV Index of 1.6 &#8211; 2.0, these lamps were producing emissions in which 100µW/cm² total UVB yielded a UV Index of between 8.9 and 14.2. *Light from these lamps would therefore appear to be between four and eight times as photobiologically active as light from the sun. *At close range these lamps were all producing hazardous levels of UVB. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Spectrograms indicated that all these lamps utilise a distinctive phosphor of a type used in lamps for testing the deterioration under UVB of resistant materials such as roofing and car bodywork, and in older-style human clinical phototherapy lamps (so-called "FS" lamps). *The lamps we tested from three different brands generate low wavelength UVB, some from as low as 275 - 280nm, whereas the lower limit of UVB in natural sunlight is 290-295nm.* (The phosphor used in many _other_ brands of reptile UVB lamps is of a type used in some human tanning lamps, which mimics the UV in sunlight and produces no UVB at wavelengths below 290nm.) [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]As well as a much higher proportion of more damaging non-solar UV energy at wavelengths below 295 nm, the lamps with the problem phosphor proved to have a higher _total _UVB output than most other brands of fluorescent reptile UVB lamps. Because much of this is in the more photobiologically active wavelengths, the risk of reaching a threshold dose for photo-kerato-conjunctivitis, and possibly other forms of UV radiation damage, is much greater than with other lamps. [/FONT]




[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A combination of *other factors* apparently increased the risk of photo-kerato-conjunctivitis with these lamps even further: [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In some cases, product literature did not give adequate information. It is essential that lamps are not sold without clear recommendations regarding suitable basking distances and the hazards of over-exposure. Many reptile keepers are unaware that there are any risks associated with close contact with a fluorescent UVB source. The history of fluorescent UVB lamps is such that they are often perceived as "weak" sources of UVB and keepers are often advised to position them close to the reptile. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When placed in aluminium reflectors, *in some cases UVB beneath compact lamps was increased by more than 700%*. The extreme increase in UVB underneath aluminium reflector domes has not been widely known, or the hazard recognised, either by manufacturers or hobbyists. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Most of the lamps have a low visible light output. They are therefore less likely to induce an aversive reaction, or pupillary constriction, when in the reptiles' line of sight. They do not "look like" very intense, direct tropical sunlight.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Most of the UVA output of these lamps is not in the visible UVA range for reptiles, since the threshold for vision is about 350nm. This reduces even further the visual impact of the lamp to the reptile. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Fluorescent lamps produce a small amount of heat. This is insufficient to deter a reptile from a close approach, and in fact the gentle warmth may even prove an attraction. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*Broadband UVB meters such as the Solarmeter 6.2 provide only readings of the total UVB in microwatts per square centimetre. This gives little indication of the photobiological activity of the UVB radiation from this type of lamp. Misleading comparisons of lamp and solar readings taken with these meters may be made, possibly leading to incorrect placement of the lamp, if this is not understood.* [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*We believe the use of a &#8220;phototherapy&#8221; phosphor in these lamps is a cause for concern. The effects of long-term exposure to non-solar wavelengths on reptiles is unknown, but these wavelengths are far more damaging to living cells than solar wavelengths.*[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] FS lamps have been used widely in research upon cell damage and immunosuppression, and to induce skin tumours in laboratory animals. FS lamps have been used in at least two studies with reptiles which suffered unexpected detrimental effects apparently related to their UV exposure, including photo-kerato-conjunctivitis, depression and death, and skin tumours. Although the compact lamps we tested from ZooMed, and the T5 and T8 tube we tested from R-Zilla are not FS lamps, they do appear to contain the same phosphor. The Big Apple Herpetological Mystic tube and compact lamp we tested, however, have spectra very similar indeed to FS lamps. [/FONT]​



ref: http://www.uvguide.co.uk/phototherap...or-summary.htm




.​


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## shepj (Feb 21, 2009)

"Pate (1983) indicated that in areas of high ultraviolet radiation exposure, the UVB (280-320 nm) absorption properties of THC may have conferred an evolutionary advantage to Cannabis capable of greater production of this compound from biogenetic precursor CBD. The extent to which this production is also influenced by environmental UVB has also been experimentally determined by Lydon et al. (1987)."

That would be correct that 280-320nm is what you're aiming for.


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## eza82 (Feb 21, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Disregarding hormones,
> 
> , but unless you can enhance the UVB effect with a specific treatment, the hormone aspect becomes a moot point to any practical application..


How do you mean ? Enhance ? We have NO uvb`s in a HID sys..? ?Hormones are again what we are looking to induce or vitimins to be more presice.. with in the PLATE cell on the trunk cell of the tric`s...this is where the chemical reactrion takes place for CBN, CBD Pushing out THC to protect it self from the UVb`s .





shepj said:


> "Pate (1983) indicated that in areas of high ultraviolet radiation exposure, the UVB (280-320 nm) absorption properties of THC may have conferred an evolutionary advantage to Cannabis capable of greater production of this compound from biogenetic precursor CBD. The extent to which this production is also influenced by environmental UVB has also been experimentally determined by Lydon et al. (1987)."
> 
> That would be correct that 280-320nm is what you're aiming for.


 
SO why is this NOT COMMON practise ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Its cheap ?? And could be the difference between good and wicked !


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## born2killspam (Feb 21, 2009)

I mean if you add UVB and see a 10% increase, and don't see >10% with UVB+hormones after trying every concievable application, then for practical purposes the advantage is about UVB treatment, not hormone treatment.. I know I'm not saying anything that isn't brutally obvious, I'm just not sure how you're intending to link the UVB to hormones in either theory or application..


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## eza82 (Feb 21, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> I mean if you add UVB and see a 10% increase, and don't see >10% with UVB+hormones after trying every concievable application, then for practical purposes the advantage is about UVB treatment, not hormone treatment.. I know I'm not saying anything that isn't brutally obvious, I'm just not sure how you're intending to link the UVB to hormones in either theory or application..


Im not - Hormone additives will ONLY BE EFFECTIVE WITH ALL OTHER ASPECTS PERFECT... UVB`s is another additive to me ( vitimin D, etc ). Just in the form of light feed not a chemical feed.
This is to maxsimize all ASPECTS of my grow giving my GENE`s the best ability to BE THERE BEST..... I am focused on all OBVIOUS/CHEAP aspects of growth to MAXIMIZE PREFORMANCE.....


So this thread has become the additives thread after you know how to grow your strain and genetics properly with minreal additives, water and light..... then add these techs to enhance your over all outcome...


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## shepj (Feb 21, 2009)

The reason it isn't common? I have no idea, but it is very available.. it isn't hidden at all. You can google "UVB THC" and all the top results are in reference to this topic. I don't know the difference between the bulbs, so do you have to buy a UVB bulb or how does that work? I guess it's just because people don't talk about it. If people were to throw a couple of articles saying "UVB kicks the shit out of UVA!" in the general growing section, I'm sure people would start using it, ya know?


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## born2killspam (Feb 21, 2009)

I found I preferred crops that were grown under a mixture of HPS & MH to HPS alone.. MH do produce a fair amount of UVB, I just don't know how much is actually penetrating the glass envelope..
A few ppl are playing with MV light suppliment for UV as well.. You've probably seen that 'UVB 10.0' thread in this forum..


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## eza82 (Feb 21, 2009)

Started a new thread for this.... 
THC - CBD CBN - MAKE MORE USEING UVB`s/ UVA`s..CHEAP&SIMPLE.?!!

So it could be GENE protection...thc.. i mean from all of this it seems as though above 270nm uvb/ uva will cause DNA damage.... So by producing thc the plant can effectivly reflect harmful UVB`s UVA`s....


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## eza82 (Feb 21, 2009)

*JUST BROUGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*​ 







*UVB Reptile Fluorescent Light Tubes*


[*][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Zoo Med Reptisun 10.0 UVB[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] (1.5inch diameter x 2 tubes)[/FONT]
[*][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]_[SIZE=-1]S__[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]pecified[/SIZE]__[SIZE=-1] output: up to 15% UVA : 10% UVB[/SIZE]_[/FONT]
[/SIZE][/FONT]Size: 58cm or 2'
Wattage: 20W
$15ea from ebay.au had 10 left 
*full guide on these tubes:*​





http://www.uvguide.co.uk/fluorescenttuberesults.htm#uvboutput​ 
Some tests out of link above...

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We were interested to find that the initial output of individual tubes of the same type from the same manufacturer may vary somewhat. Individual tubes then seem to vary slightly in their rate of decay, as well. We have several tubes on long-term measurement and whereas all have decayed somewhere around 15 - 20% over the first three months, some lamps have decayed steadily throughout, whereas others appear to have lost most of this in the first 150 hours and thereafter have decayed more slowly. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We have found considerable variation in the output of older tubes submitted for testing after many months of use. With some brands, tubes that had been in use for a year were found to be emitting as much, or more UVB than others of the same type that were only five or six months old. We do not know whether this is due mainly to a difference in output from the beginning, or to different rates of decay[/FONT]


.​


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## eza82 (Feb 22, 2009)

Im excited now... have op`ed for pick up so i collect tomorrow - this will allow me to get the uva on the for the last three weeks.........


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## Jester88 (Feb 22, 2009)

lucky [email protected]#&@d


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## DaveTheNewbie (Feb 22, 2009)

hey Ez
i really think you are doing yourself a disservice mixing this hormone thread with UVB stuff.
seperate threads is a better idea.
why dont you get involved in one of the millions of existing UVB threads around, there are heaps on this web site.

ps im slowly getting together all the gear for my hormone experaments 
check out this 20cm/8in high veg plant and tell me im not doing well


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## Jester88 (Feb 22, 2009)

that has got to be the shortest, coolest little sativa i have seen in a while lol.


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## eza82 (Feb 22, 2009)

I know i know....im lazy stoner so dont expect tomuch... but i have put the UVB stuff on new thread THC - CBD CBN - MAKE MORE USEING UVB`s/ UVA`s..CHEAP&SIMPLE.?!!

THAT IS A SHIT HOT LITTLE SATIVA....... send me some seeds lol

and heres an update of my outdoors......flower power! (there here because im parinod...)





































OW YER GOT THESE TO- ended up costing $150


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## shepj (Feb 22, 2009)

wow.. fucking tree trunks on those plants Eza. You're gonna need hedge clippers to trim all that! 

How long do you think that's gonna take to trim?


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## eza82 (Feb 22, 2009)

shepj said:


> wow.. fucking tree trunks on those plants Eza. You're gonna need hedge clippers to trim all that!
> 
> How long do you think that's gonna take to trim?


I HOPE A VERY VERY LONG TIME !


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## shepj (Feb 22, 2009)

eza82 said:


> I HOPE A VERY VERY LONG TIME !


Send me a PM when ready, I'll hop on an international plane, and help you out. 

You know what I want to do? Go to subway, snag one of their sandwich wrap papers.. and make a joint with it. lol.


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## eza82 (Feb 22, 2009)

shepj said:


> Send me a PM when ready, I'll hop on an international plane, and help you out.
> 
> You know what I want to do? Go to subway, snag one of their sandwich wrap papers.. and make a joint with it. lol.


Mrs Big - the 8ft`er - is going to have crown`ies the size of my arm! lol
So we could just find a really big pipe.... with a really really big cone.... or stick it in an oven and attach a hose ! LOL


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## eza82 (Feb 22, 2009)

BACK TO HORMONES.....................................lol


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## DaveTheNewbie (Feb 22, 2009)

this is my single aussie ourdoor baby
it still hasnt started flowering yet and its 6 foot high and 5 foot wide.
gonna be a monster


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## eza82 (Feb 22, 2009)

DaveTheNewbie said:


> this is my single aussie ourdoor baby
> it still hasnt started flowering yet and its 6 foot high and 5 foot wide.
> gonna be a monster


 
THAT LOOKS LIKE OLD MOTHER SATIVA` -which is an origanal australian/asian strain. i want i want i want.....

FIND "THE BIG book of BUDS" online and browse through it ...origianl strains................


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## Jester88 (Feb 23, 2009)

i want some of KOGS bud

it dates back to the thai of the 60/70s now if ya could get some of that i know youd be happy... id also really love some old school real thai buddha . 

KOGS :i guess you would call this an ozzie strain now
MOTHER SATIVAS another one
but we cant forget MULLIMBIMBY MADNESS

and my MATES STRAIN but good luck finding that lol.

you would have to be happy with any of them lol.

your sativa does look good tho dave


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## eza82 (Feb 23, 2009)

Speak of the devil - KOG in nimbin.... was it the strain or the dude you were talkin about ??

ON YOUTUBE.....
kog marijuana a grower's lot hemp nimbin pot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-4pq853YwM


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## eza82 (Feb 23, 2009)

My blue light looks pree`tttty !!!!!!


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## Jester88 (Feb 23, 2009)

we were talking about strains and i want some of the stuff he grows... it goes back to the old thai that was kicking around back in them days so if ya want some of that... then kogs strain is what you would want.... 

but yeah KOG from nimbin is the bloke .. hes a good bloke too it seems. i have heard heaps of people try to put his growing techniques and all that down.. but they can all get fucked i bet most of them dont get the same results in 4 months with such little needs and 100: organic pretty much.. if ya wanted that little bit better quality ya would pay more attention to em and add more ferts than he does at certain intervals.. all i gotta say is hes a champion and he has it sussed.... 

but yeah i was talking about the strain he was growing

i bet your blue light looks nice smartass lol .jokes make sure ya tell us how it goes 
its got me thinking i know that much


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## eza82 (Feb 23, 2009)

Some of the best smoke I have had has been outdoors... i have commited to the theory and will look forward to results....... Its a different spectrum inducing a new vitimin (D) So It will yeild result just how much?!

OLD SKOOL AUSSIE - KOGS A CHAMP ! And if any one has other thoughts.... listen to his prey... give me a min


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## eza82 (Feb 23, 2009)




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## eza82 (Feb 23, 2009)

funny shit... IM NOT RELIGIOUS but that just spot on...


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## eza82 (Feb 23, 2009)

IN LINE WITH PREVIOUS POST...
I ALSO PURCHASED ABOUT 50KG OF MUSHROOM COMPOST WHICH COST ME $3 FROM LOCAL MUSHROOM FARM... i THEN GOT ABOUT 40KG HORSE SHIT, AND 20KG OF SHEEP SHIT..... 

ALL ARE GOING IN INTO RAISED COMPOST TO MAKE TEA FROM....... I WILL ALSO BE GETTING A SHIT LOAD OF FISH TO ADD TO THE PILE AS WELL AS PUMKIN LEAF FROM LOCAL FARM- (HE SAID HE CAN DO A TRUCK LOAD FOR A BEER OR TWO....I LUV AUSSIES.)

ILL KEEP ABOUT 10-15KG OF MUSHROOM COMPOST...FOR A SOIL/COCO/MUSHIE COMPOST MIX.... SEE HOW THAT GOES..

tHIS WILL ALSO BE FOR MY NEW CHILLI AND PEPPERS....


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## Jester88 (Feb 23, 2009)

yup us ozzies are cool we trade in money and alcohol lol.

the differance beetween a 5 grand car and a 4200 dollar car is a carton of beer (im a spirits person tho so im a bit more pricey lol)

sounds good.... sounds like something other plants may flourish in too 

i liked tthe idea about selling them as a sauce and all that too you ay be on to something there


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## born2killspam (Feb 23, 2009)

DaveTheNewbie said:


> this is my single aussie ourdoor baby
> it still hasnt started flowering yet and its 6 foot high and 5 foot wide.
> gonna be a monster


Is there also a colony of smaller sativas near there, that feed, protect, and mate with that one?? Possibly offering themselves up for food in certain situations?..


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## born2killspam (Feb 23, 2009)

I came up with an altered version of the AA Bible creeedo thing too, but it just applies to first time growers and their setups.. It goes:
"Lord, grant me the craftsmanship to DIY the things I can, 
The cash to buy the things I cannot/should not DIY,
And the wisdom to know the difference.."


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## DaveTheNewbie (Feb 23, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> I came up with an altered version of the AA Bible creeedo thing too, but it just applies to first time growers and their setups.. It goes:
> "Lord, grant me the craftsmanship to DIY the things I can,
> The cash to buy the things I cannot/should not DIY,
> And the wisdom to know the difference.."


 
AMEN to that one


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## eza82 (Feb 23, 2009)

amen.......


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## born2killspam (Feb 23, 2009)

> AMEN to that one





> amen.......


Weed be with you..


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## MaDz (Feb 23, 2009)

You have results dude? Pics for comparaison?


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## eza82 (Feb 23, 2009)

MaDz said:


> You have results dude? Pics for comparaison?


Coming in about 1 week.. base grow is not pictured though... just three guys who know the buds well will judge.... for strength.....
-There is considerable differences already.... in wieght, I had to tie on day 18 of flower... base grow dose not tie at all...
-When I applyed my hormone schedual within 2 weeks of flower they stoped stem and leaf growth and consintrated on bud mass... So I have not gained ANY hight since 14 days 
-Bud smells like sweaty socks rather than like sweet wood smell...
-The visible trics seem to be much more consintrated....
-Water & nute consumption was up...
-Pistle stayed `fresh much longer (no tanning).. in other words rather than 2 seperate explosion of pistles it was and has been one consistant growth explosion over the whole period. Its on last 3 weeks of flower and have only just started to change.


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## eza82 (Feb 25, 2009)

Any body know much about or doing ??
FULLY AUTOMATED GROW.......remote monitor clone to harvest??


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## Jester88 (Feb 25, 2009)

ive heard of similar things


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## born2killspam (Feb 25, 2009)

Just start by automating parts.. There are circuits on the net that would allow you to put that all together yourself.. CO2 measurement costs alot, and you need to buy pH probes, the rest can be made for quite little..


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## eza82 (Feb 26, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Just start by automating parts.. There are circuits on the net that would allow you to put that all together yourself.. CO2 measurement costs alot, and you need to buy pH probes, the rest can be made for quite little..


Come check it out... for about 2000 growtronx will give YOU EVERYTHING!
ithink pg 3 of thread above....


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## born2killspam (Feb 26, 2009)

Whats the fun in that?? It's oddly somple/cheap to interface with a pc.. Aside from the CO2, a few hundred dollars would cover the actual cost..


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## DaveTheNewbie (Feb 26, 2009)

i would miss seeing my babies every day


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## ProfessorMembrane (Feb 28, 2009)

I found a tidbit on ethylene gas, a decent company makes generators that would suit our purposes.

http://www.catalyticgenerators.com/index1.html


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## spiked1 (Mar 1, 2009)

Ethylene gas has been in use for a long time.
Most fruit an veg is picked unripe so it doesn't bruise or over ripen during transport.
They then gas it to ripen ready for market.
But I would have assumed these were quite large and expensive operations and beyond any use to us.


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## eza82 (Mar 1, 2009)

spiked1 said:


> .
> But I would have assumed these were quite large and expensive operations and beyond any use to us.


Champ... unfounded statment there, considering our conversations on this thread !


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## spiked1 (Mar 1, 2009)

eza82 said:


> Champ... unfounded statment there, considering our conversations on this thread !


Why is that, I was talking about how the pros use it on a large scale with large enclosed warehouses and huge pumps and cylinders of ethylene, I wasn't aware this technology was available to people like us to use on a small scale.
Your comment makes no sense to me given the context of this thread.
OK then, you can have your thread back.
If It's not possible to use something on a small scale, like we need, then It's completely useless.
CYA.


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## spiked1 (Mar 1, 2009)

Actually, this tread is pretty useless anyway.
Unsubscribed.


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## eza82 (Mar 1, 2009)

lol
.....thank you and your input have been valuable.........lol


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## eza82 (Mar 1, 2009)

Spiked,
You are ignorant and do not read.... we have discussed that in detail and have investigated a few different home made potentials small scale use, even banana skin in a ziplock for seeds.... There are many many ways and types of application for eythlene gas.... if you want to be a dick about it do so I dont have time for wankers... This thread is to discuss the potential uses of hormones and chemicals in which induce or inhibit growth factors...
The fact that a CO2 (propane) genarator are used on most commercial marijuana grows... Eythlene is produced in this process... so there is question on the effects of it.
the potential to use it at the later stage for flower/bud has been discussed.. To potential use it to induce maturity and peak .... Why would you shut down an idea when its clear you have not put any thought into.....


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## ProfessorMembrane (Mar 1, 2009)

Not to mention he didn't bother reading my link. They have large and small scale gas ethylene production kits.


----------



## eza82 (Mar 1, 2009)

i hate when people chim in when they have not bothered to read the thread.....
He is the sorta guy that probaly has one plant....on his third grow thinks he know all....
I will never know enough and will never stop asking questions.... This is NO ACTUAL science..... there is a great unknown , MJ is a plant that has far less research done on it.... 
......and any contribution to my yeild through hormones and any other means is welcome...
Thanx proffessor........


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## Jester88 (Mar 1, 2009)

eza82 said:


> i hate when people chim in when they have not bothered to read the thread.....
> He is the sorta guy that probaly has one plant....on his third grow thinks he know all....
> I will never know enough and will never stop asking questions.... This is NO ACTUAL science..... there is a great unknown , MJ is a plant that has far less research done on it....
> ......and any contribution to my yeild through hormones and any other means is welcome...
> Thanx proffessor........


ill always have questions and be trying new shit... i dont want to toot ma own horn but i reckon i know a thing or too, and can grow maself a good plant.... but like i said ill always have questions.... i think you guys are being too hard on him hes kinda right tho... internet ordering is the only way to get some of these things and i too am dodgy on this  

also this is one long thread here ya gotta expect people to miss some things....SORRY IF I EVER DO . but i smoke weed it happens lol 

*spiked 1 was also going out of his way on your other research only thread to leave you his results remember that.*.... id be offended if i was him 2..... 
*
but also to eza*
dont worry about it there is a point behind this i think theyre good/useful threads... to the right people it could b priceless  keep up the good work


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## eza82 (Mar 1, 2009)

Your right !
Was in a bad mood yesterday ... Sorry about the carcasim followed by insult!

APPOLOGIES ! I LUV YOU ALL !!!


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## ProfessorMembrane (Mar 1, 2009)

No real changes on the plants dosed with IBA so far. One IBA dosed plant hermaphrodized the day after treatment and was removed from the experiment as an anomaly.


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## DaveTheNewbie (Mar 1, 2009)

yeah cant we all just hold hands and sing around the fireside .... and then the oral sex!


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## DaveTheNewbie (Mar 1, 2009)

i just thought this might be of interest to you : dutch masters superbud
http://www.marijuanagrowing.eu/superbud-tips-and-tricks-on-using-it-t129.html
sells for $250 a litre over here, supposed to be pretty amazing stuff


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## eza82 (Mar 1, 2009)

Nice info...... ive looked at this stuff.. thats expensive...... here at local it is $150 for a liter, I am useing ROCK Juice.. which local guy said basically the same .... but $40 cheaper... i will have to try this next time im down there !


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## Jester88 (Mar 1, 2009)

DaveTheNewbie said:


> yeah cant we all just hold hands and sing around the fireside .... and then the oral sex!



ummm ok 

as long as theres chicks there... i like boobs and girlie bits.




​


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## eza82 (Mar 1, 2009)

ROFL.... was thinkin that it would be a bit of a sausage fest !


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## DaveTheNewbie (Mar 1, 2009)

it was supposed to be a bit of a parody from the holy grail : come on just a little bit of peril, please


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## eza82 (Mar 1, 2009)

DaveTheNewbie said:


> it was supposed to be a bit of a parody from the holy grail : come on just a little bit of peril, please


 lol
all good bro i knew what you were getting at !


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## Jester88 (Mar 1, 2009)

i just felt like being a smart ass..

sorry about that


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## spiked1 (Mar 2, 2009)

OMFG, I was only trying to be constructive, what is the use of such a long winded copy and paste with no explanations eza. Man, I've been following threads here like this before you even joined. Yes, It's all been done before. I only jumped on your thread because all the others went nowhere, and I was still interested.
This includes UV lights, ethylene etc,
Some shit you write eza is utter dribble, you know nothing about me and I'm probably 2 or 3 times your age, been doing this shit for 36 years now and I have learnt a few things along the way, but I'm still learning.
You've been here 2 months and you think it's your forum.
If anyone wants to see what kind of person you really are I will copy and paste the private messages you sent me calling me all sorts of filthy shit. How peurile of you.
My post wasn't even critisism, your poor little ego is so fragile that you want everyone to say great stuff eza, your so smart.
All you do is copy and paste stuff freely available to all, how about collating it into something meaningful.
Shit, I stumbled here by accident, now I have to unsubscribe again.


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## Jester88 (Mar 2, 2009)

spiked1 said:


> OMFG, I was only trying to be constructive, what is the use of such a long winded copy and paste with no explanations eza. Man, I've been following threads here like this before you even joined. Yes, It's all been done before. I only jumped on your thread because all the others went nowhere, and I was still interested.
> This includes UV lights, ethylene etc,
> Some shit you write eza is utter dribble, you know nothing about me and I'm probably 2 or 3 times your age, been doing this shit for 36 years now and I have learnt a few things along the way, but I'm still learning.
> You've been here 2 months and you think it's your forum.
> ...


cummon spiked one dont be an asswipe (not in a bad way) you already know i wanna know the outcome to your la femme test. and besides he said sorry.... WE ALL HAVE OUR BAD DAYS i know i have.. cept im a bit funny if someone puts me back in ma place and wins an arguement in the end i rep em lol.

besides i know kids that could tell you more than most adults could about this sacred plant.... i was one of em in my wild days lol.... it doesnt matter as long as you can grow good bud and share some wisdom.. well thats the oppinion im of.....

but anyhoo i dont believe this thread is a waste...
it has heaps of useful info on it and eza was prolly so heartstuck cos he really is trying to make this thread go somewhere look at all the work he at least gets here collaborated for all to see . i know what it feels like to hav threads ruined.... IT SUX.... JUST PLAIN SUX..... 

ya dont gotta go cos of one disagreement. damn thats stupid

also the fact that you been growin 35 years dont mean shit... no matter how much you know your always still learning its just weather people want to learn from you.... the for all you know the neighbours kid could be growin something ass dank as you.. i know i grew kick ass bud then and i do now too. 

anyways i didnt get to finish what i gotta say i gotta go get some milk srry about that shops about to shut...

bottom line *dumb arguement*.... yas both got some points... it was all good till now get over it.... move on and learn from each other thats what this is all about.... eza appologised there was no need to keep being an ass can we please move on


condoms are cheaper than guns​


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## eza82 (Mar 2, 2009)

spiked1 said:


> OMFG, I was only trying to be constructive, what is the use of such a long winded copy and paste with no explanations eza. Man, I've been following threads here like this before you even joined. Yes, It's all been done before. I only jumped on your thread because all the others went nowhere, and I was still interested.
> This includes UV lights, ethylene etc,
> Some shit you write eza is utter dribble, you know nothing about me and I'm probably 2 or 3 times your age, been doing this shit for 36 years now and I have learnt a few things along the way, but I'm still learning.
> You've been here 2 months and you think it's your forum.
> ...


I posted the same PM for all to see ! sorry to im trying to help, and the OP in each thread state exactly that.... all info has refference attached... so how do you think i claim all as my own ? And figure I own the forum ? What are you talking about.... please have another spliff and chill.....
Im here for research as are others not so much the social side so yes i collect info to share... it takes me hrs of reading & research to find this shit ! Sorry you did take the post to heart...... ive touched on a soar note obviously, I appologised in PM and in open forum........
Growing for 36yrs ... and your experimenting with rooting hormone ??
I dont want to make this a bash thread so lets hope you truley stick to your word and leave !


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## eza82 (Mar 2, 2009)

Back to HORMONES !!!

Just started my 
PLANT STARTER vs LA FEMME today! A SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON TEST !
3 PLANTS.... (1 IS BASE PLANT ) 
Plant stater: active; is NAA and IBA
LaFemme; active: NAA

Folia feed with pentrator..once 3 days after turn of lights and will follow up every two days for 4 applications.... idetical clones in same media,same size pot,lights,nutes,next to each other / but taken away for spray application incase of over spray.

Will follow that with 1 application in each wk 3 & 4.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Also direct comparison of rock juice and superbud to follow.

----------------------------------------------------------------
And also my experiment between super carbs (b vitimins familiy) and and synthetic vitimin b1
---------------------------------------------------------------------
UVB vs HPS+MH - find other thread


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## born2killspam (Mar 2, 2009)

He's right, its mainly redundant cut/paste.. Rooting hormone on established plants has been done to death.. You can get pretty much any hormone you want, and wouldn't even get hit by Hazmat fees for them, so I don't know how you expect to 'experiment' with product from the hydro store..
And ever notice that quality reference sources tend to avoid cluttering up their publication with childish pictures??
Unsubscribed..


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## eza82 (Mar 2, 2009)

Ill keep it to myself ! Sorry everyone ! didnt mean to offend anyone ! And where was i experimenting with rooting hormone ??
Plant starter is a replaciment for la femme due to price differnce!
My experiment is clearly stated in feed & dose schedual stated earlier......???????? useing hydro products your right would be useless. My intentins were to look at different AGRICULTURE based fertz in raw form that are being used on mass eatable crops ..to see if any would marry with exsisting or replicate exsisting hydro store type additives it...... i think we are getting there !.
GUess i was wrong.......
so tell me about them if you know !??? please find me papers on the following then ...i know you cant and i bet half of those you never even heard of!!!!!!!
*--- ive been researching ......and putting together a spread sheet of potential effects and timing..! I guess you will do that your self...or better yet you have and they are all useless !?? lol*



*DATA SHEETS ON PGR`s (or man made hormones)*

*antiauxins* 
clofibric acid 
2,3,5-tri-iodobenzoic acid 
*auxins* 
4-CPA 
2,4-D 
2,4-DB 
2,4-DEP 
dichlorprop 
fenoprop 
naphthaleneacetamide 
&#945;-naphthaleneacetic acid 
1-naphthol 
naphthoxyacetic acid 
potassium naphthenate 
sodium naphthenate 
2,4,5-T 
*cytokinins* 
2iP 
benzyladenine 
kinetin 
zeatin 
*defoliants* 
calcium cyanamide 
dimethipin 
endothal 
ethephon 
merphos 
metoxuron 
pentachlorophenol 
thidiazuron 
tribufos 
*ethylene inhibitors* 
aviglycine 
1-methylcyclopropene 
*ethylene releasers* 
ACC 
etacelasil 
ethephon 
glyoxime 
*gibberellins* 
gibberellins 
gibberellic acid 
*growth inhibitors* 
abscisic acid 
ancymidol 
butralin 
carbaryl 
chlorphonium 
chlorpropham 
dikegulac 
flumetralin 
fluoridamid 
fosamine 
glyphosine 
isopyrimol 
jasmonic acid 
maleic hydrazide 
mepiquat 
piproctanyl 
prohydrojasmon 
propham 


2,3,5-tri-iodobenzoic acid 
*morphactins* 
chlorfluren 
chlorflurenol 
dichlorflurenol 
flurenol 
*growth retardants* 
chlormequat 
daminozide 
flurprimidol 
mefluidide 
paclobutrazol 
tetcyclacis 
uniconazole 
*growth stimulators* 
brassinolide 
forchlorfenuron 
hymexazol 
*unclassified plant growth regulators* 
benzofluor 
buminafos 
carvone 
ciobutide 
clofencet 
cloxyfonac 
cyanamide 
cyclanilide 
cycloheximide 
cyprosulfamide 
epocholeone 
ethychlozate 
ethylene 
fenridazon 
heptopargil 
holosulf 
inabenfide 
karetazan 
lead arsenate 
methasulfocarb 
prohexadione 
pydanon 
sintofen 
triapenthenol 
trinexapac 
*Here is a couple of PGR products ive been looking at.....*

*Dazide *has numerous uses, the most important being to regulate plant size by reducing the length of internodes. A more compact plant has greater stem strength resulting in less breakage during shipping and handling. *Dazide* also reduces apical dominance, encouraging the development of early terminal buds that branch profusely. Treated plants have a compact growth habit and enhanced flower bud formation. 
*Dazide *treated plants also tend to have deeper green foliage and a more developed root system. The latter provides firmer anchorage and better nutrient and moisture extracting capability. Consequently, plants are less likely to wilt and can recover more quickly from the stress of transplanting. *Dazide *is effective in a wide variety of ornamentals, including chrysanthemums, gardenias, azaleas, hydrangeas and poinsettias, along with petunias, marigolds and other flowering and foliage plant species. While the specific effects of *Dazide* vary with the situation, the results generated are very predictable and consistent, producing plants that look and sell at their best all year round.
*http://www.fine-agrochemicals.com/DocFrame/DocView.asp?id=308&sec=-1*



*Falgo *contains gibberellic acid (GA3). Gibberellins are compounds that are naturally produced within plants to stimulate growth. *Fine *has developed a unique fermentation method of naturally producing GA3 and markets the compound for use in ornamental plants as *falgro*. *Falgro *has a huge variety of useful applications including elongation of peduncles in Pompom Chrysanthemums, earlier flowering and increased yield in Statice and accelerated plant growth with increased number of flowering stems in Gypsophila. Offering flexibility of use, *falgro *is formulated as easy to use liquid, powder and tablet formulations.
http://www.fine-agrochemicals.com/Co...rodH.asp?id=21


*Pirouette *regulates height and diameter in ornamental plants by reducing internode elongation due to inhibition of gibberellin biosynthesis. *Pirouette* enhances the quality of bedding plants, flowering and foliage plants, bulb crops, perennials and woody ornamentals making them easier to market and more profitable to produce. *Pirouette *helps to produce attractive plants that are easier to handle and transport by producing more compact and sturdier plants.
*Pirouette *helps growers manage the marketing of plants by allowing control of growth rates to meet increasingly stringent customer led specifications. 
http://www.fine-agrochemicals.com/Co...rodH.asp?id=86

FALGRO...... Not that expensive..... comes in large quantities and I need SFA....
*Falgo *contains gibberellic acid (GA3). Gibberellins are compounds that are naturally produced within plants to stimulate growth. *Fine *has developed a unique fermentation method of naturally producing GA3 and markets the compound for use in ornamental plants as *falgro*. *Falgro *has a huge variety of useful applications including elongation of peduncles in Pompom Chrysanthemums, earlier flowering and increased yield in Statice and accelerated plant growth with increased number of flowering stems in Gypsophila. Offering flexibility of use, *falgro *is formulated as easy to use liquid, powder and tablet formulations.
http://www.fine-agrochemicals.com/Co...rodH.asp?id=21


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## born2killspam (Mar 2, 2009)

Well, if the hormones are the key, and your products have the same constituent compounds as typical rooting gels, and ppl have done the gel application to death with no positive results, then logic dictates that this LaFemme product will end in the same result.. The fact that these products are interchangeable should have been a big red-flag actually..
Now I'm hitting the back button so I can unsubscribe without seeing more posts..


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## eza82 (Mar 2, 2009)

yep i found this shit all over forums and threads in the cannibis community !
cut and pasted from old marijuana forums and shit ! ROFL
edited last post ----


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## eza82 (Mar 2, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Well, if the hormones are the key, and your products have the same constituent compounds as typical rooting gels, and ppl have done the gel application to death with no positive results, then logic dictates that this LaFemme product will end in the same result.. The fact that these products are interchangeable should have been a big red-flag actually..
> Now I'm hitting the back button so I can unsubscribe without seeing more posts..


 WTF????
Where dose it say rooting gel hormone what ever ??????

La femme is new to market but old to plant world..... wanted to see if i could save some coin becasue i like results of la femme.........


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## eza82 (Mar 2, 2009)

it must be my bad mood !


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## DaveTheNewbie (Mar 2, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Well, if the hormones are the key, and your products have the same constituent compounds as typical rooting gels, and ppl have done the gel application to death with no positive results, then logic dictates that this LaFemme product will end in the same result.. The fact that these products are interchangeable should have been a big red-flag actually..
> Now I'm hitting the back button so I can unsubscribe without seeing more posts..


 
lafemme is not a rooting gel
it never was and never will be.
you missed the point here my friend


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## Jester88 (Mar 2, 2009)

personally im not sorry *born2killspam* is leaving....


no offense dude..... but for some reason i just dont like you... got me all paranoid about getting something for a plant for fuck sakes..... WHICH I HAVE FOUND.... and no its not a watched item its made for plants....

like i said no offense tho
your probably a cool guy and shit... and i normaly dont go out of my way to cause shit on a forumthread, but you guys are being assholes.... how would you feel if i came to your thread just to say you suck im unsubscribing... i mean what an ass.... as for the its been done damn strait but i didnt see em. most shits been done your only like the 10000000000000000000 th person to grow a marijuana plant. *im sick of nay sayers.*



peace 
jester88

*sorry for being an ass but can we move along please....*


p.s dont ya just wish ya could reach through the computer screen an slap some ppl in the face....


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## eza82 (Mar 2, 2009)

JEZ......your a champ !
Your head and heart in the right space !~
Ignorence is there prorogitive.... both have no valueable threads for information both just leach onto other peoples work and thread and crit, ad pull apart... though they will never put forward a valueable theory or idea of there own.....

If you dont like what we are on about .... no need to post just [email protected]#k off......

I enjoy the intellectual value of the people who have subscribed here, there are some smart people here..... who not nessecerly have growing experience but Common sense and basic knowledge..which i think, bring more value than an so called old 36yr growing vetrien who is still experimenting with root hormone.lol.. and have proven to me that some of them KNOW alot more than me.... and they are on there 2nd grow etc....

If you need to be an arse....dont ...... because your going to look foolish here !


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## mindphuk (Mar 3, 2009)

subscribed!


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## eza82 (Mar 3, 2009)

mindphuk said:


> subscribed!


Welcome.... Mindphuk.....


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## eza82 (Mar 3, 2009)

this is something i have just started to experiment with ! ​

I recieved a PACK OF THIS STUFF with an order of RED CLOVER im also experimenting with for phytoestrogens......... So i will use it on a few seeds ive got !_AM. _

​
​​​ 

*Rhizobium*​ 
*inoculate seed before planting? *​ 
*inoculated with the proper Rhizobium bacteria. (black chalky looking shit )*​ 
*Inoculation is easy and inexpensive and provides good assurance that plants will fix nitrogen.* *EXPLANATION:* 
IE:seeds can be inoculated with live rhizobium bacteria (_Rhizobium meliloti)_, . The only time producers do not need to inoculate is when planting preinoculated seed before its expiration date. 
In some fields with recent histories of alfalfa or sweetclover, alfalfa may not benefit from inoculation, but it is difficult to identify those fields before planting. After emergence, inoculation is risky, difficult, and expensive.​ 
Many strains of rhizobia are present in soil, and some may form nodules on alfalfa roots, but not all nodules fix nitrogen. Effective N-fixing nodules on alfalfa are generally pink to deep red on the inside and can fix several hundred pounds of nitrogen per acre each season. 
Specific rhizobium bacteria for alfalfa assure effective nitrogen fixation by new stands. Together they convert atmospheric nitrogen into a form available to plants if effective nodules are present. Nodules are the result of an infection by an effective strain of bacteria (_Rhizobium meliloti_). 
*Inoculating alfalfa seed:* Inoculation is nothing more than mixing bacteria with the seed before planting. Dry inoculant can be mixed with seed, but it is difficult to assure good mixing and to avoid much of the inoculant from falling on the ground some distance from the seed. Certain brands of alfalfa seed are pre-inoculated (with or without lime coating) and do not need additional inoculant. 
Stickers help nodule forming bacteria adhere to seed. Excellent commercial preparations of stickers and rhizobium are available from inoculant manufacturers. For best results, follow the manufacturer's instructions. 
An alternative to commercial stickers is to use milk or a water-based solution containing 10 to 20 % table syrup or sugar. One pint of the sticky mixture provides sufficient sticker for a bushel of seed. Moisten all seeds (in a concrete mixer, if possible), then add the inoculant. If the mixture is too moist, add more inoculant, finely ground limestone, or powdery dry soil. 
*Shelf life of inoculants: *Expiration dates appear on inoculant packets and pre-inoculated seed bags. The date indicates when most of the bacteria will have died under normal storage conditions. Properly inoculated seeds have thousands of bacteria per seed; however, only one bacterium is needed to infest a seedling's root. Bacteria on seed in hot soil die, a few at a time. Nevertheless, even after 2 or 3 weeks, there are usually enough live bacteria remaining to be effective. 
Heat, direct sunlight, and drying are all detrimental to the survival of rhizobia. For this reason, it is important to store inoculant packets in a cool place (refrigerate if possible). Even with the large amounts of rhizobia initially applied, many bacteria may die during prolonged storage. 
If there are questions about the viability of bacteria on inoculated seed due to the length of storage or storage conditions, then seed should be reinoculated. Do not use water to moisten lime-coated seed. Fresh inoculant can be applied with *mineral oil* as a sticker. About 1/2 ounce of mineral oil per pound of seed is sufficient. 
*Cost/benefit of inoculation:* Inoculant is normally included with the higher priced seed. Cost for preinoculated seed is 5 to 10¢/lb more than comparable raw seed. Inoculant costs about $1/A, if applied by the producer. 
All legumes (including alfalfa) can establish and survive without nitrogen-fixing bacteria, but plants cannot fix nitrogen. This means that without added nitrogen, plants will have a yellowish appearance and yields will be low. With high rates of nitrogen fertilizer application, uninoculated stands can be productive. 
If nitrogen fertilizer is applied to alfalfa for normal growth and quality, 200 - 400 lb. actual N/A would be required, costing $50 - $200/A. Since inoculation is easy and cheap, it is probably the best insurance farmers can buy.​ 
*can i use it at any time ?? *
there is at least one commercial bacterial preparation that can be mixed with water and sprayed on plants to improve inoculation with rhizobia. 
During dry or cold (below 500 F) soil conditions, rhizobia may not grow and multiply normally. Slow growth of rhizobia is also caused by acid or infertile soil. If fertilizer and lime were not applied according to soil tests, the materials should be applied as soon as possible and may alleviate the problem with poor inoculation. 
The cost and effectiveness of inoculation after planting is highly variable because of the array of conditions that can cause poor inoculation. Rhizobia must come in contact with root hairs before they dry out or they will not be effective; consequently, weather conditions are critical for this application.​ 

http://alfalfa.okstate.edu/pub/stand-949/seed.htm












https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/159989-hormones-pgr-s-vitimans-research-7.html#post2174216 


here are some current recommendations made to me by some pro`s in hort industry: ​


*




*​


*LIQUID LEAD*​


Grow Hard's Liquid Lead contains a special formula precisely designed for the heaviest harvest. A unique blend of organic enzyme activators, vitamins, essential animo acids and carbohydrates that will unleash the full flowering potential of your favourite plants or herbs.


Liquid Lead optimises harvest weight, promotes vigorous growth, enhances flavour and taste and increases health of flowering plants in your hydroponic system.​



*PRO-PK PROFESSIONAL POTASH*​


*Superior Weight Booster*  


When you initiate flowering there is a massive surge in the plants requirement for potassium. Lowered potassium levels will simply slow down a plants growth rate to match the available potassium. More available potassium equals more flowers. Supplement your nutrient solution with PROFESSIONAL POTASH for increased potassium levels and maximum finished weight. Why dont nutrient manufacturers add all of this extra potassium in their nutrient mix? They cant for two reasons. The most important is that everybodys system is different. Nutrients are made to cope with a wide range of conditions and could easily become out of balance. Problems could occur because hydroponic systems are managed by electrical conductivity rather than chemical analysis. Adding the extra potassium is really fine tuning. The second problem is a chemical one. Concentrated nutrients start to behave differently as the concentration increases and can start to salt out, creating insoluble compounds that cant be used by the plant. We recommend PROFESSIONAL POTASH as an addition to your flowering nutrient for record breaking yields. Feel the weight of a bottle of PROFESSIONAL POTASH compared to our competitors, we put more in so that you get more out of your crop. Add PROFESSIONAL POTASH to fresh water at required rate first, then add your flowering nutrient and other additives. Pure elements in ultra pure water.​


http://www.way2grow.com.au/​

​


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## DaveTheNewbie (Mar 3, 2009)

http://www.way2grow.com.au/view_product.php?p=189

did you have a look at this stuff?
im a big fan of canadian xpress


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## eza82 (Mar 3, 2009)

DaveTheNewbie said:


> http://www.way2grow.com.au/view_product.php?p=189
> 
> did you have a look at this stuff?
> im a big fan of canadian xpress


I already use there ROCK juice for flower by same guys i think !....... GREEEAAATTTTT SSHHIITT!!!!!!!!! but stop growth in it tracks and just builds bud !

I might give that a go !


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## eza82 (Mar 3, 2009)

Trying to keep all additives to a minimal cost.... reletive to a commercial grow or the tight grower ! like me who is jus poor all the time ! lol


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## DaveTheNewbie (Mar 3, 2009)

ok so here is your next quest 

watch this link : http://www.boingboing.net/2008/08/12/bbc-documentary-make.html

read my thread : https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/168428-thc-vs-cannaboids.html

tell me how to achieve my goal 

easy


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## eza82 (Mar 3, 2009)

Ive seen that ....good doc... i want intrevenous!

You need gene`s that are high in CBN and CBD - easy next question LOL...
seriously, that is a motive of mine as we speak in my THC - CBD CBN - MAKE MORE USEING UVB`s/ UVA`s..CHEAP&SIMPLE.?!! thread.....
Idea of recreating enviorments is my only real theory that has gained any ground !
Genes are the key, but my project is to induce the MAX production for any gene by recreating an environment ... which i hope will give me more THC/cbn/cbd


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## mindphuk (Mar 3, 2009)

DaveTheNewbie said:


> ok so here is your next quest
> 
> watch this link : http://www.boingboing.net/2008/08/12/bbc-documentary-make.html


I saw that documentary. Some of it was good, but there were definite anti-cannabis spin during some parts of it.

I posted the same video comparing THC and THC + cannabinoids in another thread. Good info. +rep


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## eza82 (Mar 3, 2009)

mindphuk said:


> I saw that documentary. Some of it was good, but there were definite anti-cannabis spin during some parts of it.


I agree, but scientificly is great comparison... gives ground for medical vs recreation, and defines the two..
With alot of the seed banks declareing what % of CBN,CBD it will allow us to make more informed decisions for medical use Vs rec use !
And be able to do this with out haveing to toke!!


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## DaveTheNewbie (Mar 3, 2009)

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MIX-YOUR-OWN-PGR-MAKE-YOUR-OWN-ROCK-JUICE-SUPERBUD_W0QQitemZ220237237497QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Seed_Starting_Hydroponics?hash=item220237237497&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14

i saw this and thought of you ezra


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## eza82 (Mar 4, 2009)

DaveTheNewbie said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MIX-YOUR-OWN-PGR-MAKE-YOUR-OWN-ROCK-JUICE-SUPERBUD_W0QQitemZ220237237497QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Seed_Starting_Hydroponics?hash=item220237237497&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14
> 
> i saw this and thought of you ezra


Considering buying that ! will save about $100 a liter ! for my rock juice which is around 150 a liter !

Thanx bro !


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## eza82 (Mar 4, 2009)

*Dave- this is what it is....*​ 
*Crop Care CYCOCEL® 77A*
*Plant Growth Regulant*
*ACTIVE CONSTITUENT: 77 g/L CHLORMEQUAT*​
*present as CHLORMEQUAT CHLORIDE*


*Specifications: *

*Guaiacol *
*5-nitroguaiacol *
*Compound Sodium nitrophenolate *
*Sodium 5-nitroguaiacolate *
*Sodium para-nitrophenolate *
*DA-6 *
*Sodium a-naphthaleneacitic acid *
*Sodium 2,4-dinitrophenolate *
*3'5'-Sodium nucleic acid *
*Compound potassium nitrophenolate *
*3-indolebutyric acid(IBA) *
*Laurocapram *
*Thiazone *
*Cyhalothrin-lambda(Cyhalothrin) *

CYCOCEL 77A is a growth regulator which promotes flower formation and increases the berry set and yield of wine grapes and increase setting of currants.

*Recommended Uses* To increase the berry set and yield of wine grapes and increase setting of currants
.*Advantages* Increases the number of berries per bunch. Improves skin to total fruit ratio.
*Benefits* Improved colour of red wines. Increases yield.
*Mode of Action* CYCOCEL 77A is a growth regulator which inhibits cell elongation, hence shorthening and strengthening the stem and producing a sturdier plant. Also, influences the developmental cycle, leding to increased flowering and harvest.
*Chemical Group* PGR
*General Instructions**Mixing *
Thoroughly mix the product with hard or soft water at the rates shown, then add wetter.
The product should be applied only to vigorous vines growing under good conditions and capable of carrying an increased crop.
This applies particularly to Muscat Gordo Blanco. As many factors affect yield of grapes, the use of CYCOCEL 77A may not always result in increased fruit production.

*Compatibility *
Do NOT mix the product with other chemicals except nonionic wetter, unless compatibility has been tested.

*Company Details*CROP CARE
Unit 15/16 Metroplex Avenue
Murarrie QLD 4172
_Tel : _07 3909 2000
_Fax : _07 3909 2010
_Web : _www.cropcare.com.au



*INT trade site- with raw PGR`s*
*http://www.tradeindia.com/selloffer/1591649/Chlormequat-chloride.html*

*Look at this research LONG read...but very formal !*
*http://www.icar.org.in/icar2001.pdf*


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## DaveTheNewbie (Mar 4, 2009)

i recognise the 2 in red


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## eza82 (Mar 4, 2009)

DaveTheNewbie said:


> i recognise the 2 in red


thought you might ! its lafemme NAA and rooting IBA


here is some stuff i want at the mo! HIGHLY CONSINTRATED !!!!!!









*Black Thunder* - Potassium Humate for indoor!
*Description/Specification* Black thunder is a potassium humate which is 100% soluble in water and is in a powder form. 
*It is obtainable in a concentration of 70%humic acid , 15%fulvic acid and 15% organic soluble potassium. *
It can be used in landscapes and gardens as well as for agriculture and horticulture purposes. 

*The various advantages of potassium humate are:* 

* It stimulates the growth of the plant and improves the structure of the soil. 
* It enhances the growth of the plant and soil fertility as it acts effectively on both the plant and soil. 
* Black thunder can be easily stored and transported. 
* It is easily soluble in water. 
* It can also be applied with other chemical fertilizers or pesticides. 
* It increases the nutrient values of the plant.

Viggi Agro Products

*Bio Thunder (outdoor)*
*Description/Specification* Bio Thunder is made up of mixture of plant extracts which are obtained from naturally occurring enzymes, vitamins, trace elements and amino acids of the plant origin. For the growth and development of the plant humate is a natural plant growth promoter which can be easily absorbed by the plant. It enhances the activity of the naturally available enzymes and hormones in the plant and thus fulfills the nutritional demand and accelerates the metabolic process of the plants. This active process helps in the formation of food materials like carbohydrates proteins etc. it promotes cell division which helps in the growth of the plant. Some of the prominent characteristics of Humate are: 

* Due to better stimulating phenomena it increase the yield 
* It improves the color, shape, luster and taste of the fruit as it enhances the nutritional uptake and utilization. 
* After the harvesting is done it improves the quality of the flower and the fruit. 
* It helps in the growth and development of the roots by absorbing the nutrients from the soil. 
* It increases the photosynthetic activity of the plant thus results in the growth of new green and lustrous leaves. 
* It improves the resistivity and helps the growth of the plant even in adverse conditions.







These are cheap ..............http://www.tradeindia.com/fp82279/Bio-Thunder.html

Here is a full list of different raw materials and cheap humantes and mixtures !

http://www.tradeindia.com/manufacturers/indianmanufacturers/organic-plant-growth-regulator.html


.


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## mindphuk (Mar 4, 2009)

eza82 said:


> Considering buying that ! will save about $100 a liter ! for my rock juice which is around 150 a liter !
> 
> Thanx bro !


So a couple of us here in the US could go in on this auction for a few bills each and save good money on Budmeister?


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## eza82 (Mar 4, 2009)

mindphuk said:


> So a couple of us here in the US could go in on this auction for a few bills each and save good money on Budmeister?


race ya! ,,,LOL .. YEP!..... aND WITH EXCHANGE AT MOMENT !!!!!!!
We aussies make alot of nutes...including canna...in SA and many many more!
Or agri industry is huge as is US...but we do alot R&D here.... so trade quantities of alot of the hormones I talk about are here......
BUt;
Alot of agri trade sites or International chemical trade sites will sell Most PGR`s at trade price.... and *CYCOCEL® 77A is* MIN 5 ltr... 
This is ALMOST the same as ROCK JUICE... and i suppose it is said its similar to budmiester but (budmeister) it iS lacking in cyotkinins.

its believed rock juice is a plasebo 85% (water) and Cycocel + a few other additives (similar to the AMINO acids and enzymes found in seaweed extract & fish emulsion}


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## eza82 (Mar 4, 2009)

i will be getting this in next nute BULK purchase.......... this is so everything else we have spoken about has the best ability to stabilize and absorbe nutes and minerals,sugars,acids!
From- *Visit my eBay Store:




****Discount Hydroponic Supplies*​ 

CANNA RHIZOTONIC 5 LITRE
The Solution for Growth and Bloom​a natural 100% natural, organically certified root stimulator (OMRI). 


Faster root development

Strong roots

Easy to use

Increased resistance to disease

For use in both indoor and outdoor cultivation

Instantly absorbable

More than 60 microbiological substances

No harmful residues ​
*Canna Rhizotonic* is a powerful algae-based root stimulator for fast growing plants that already have roots. Rhizotonic stimulates the further root development, increases the plant's resistance to disease and promotes its inner and outer strength.
*Rhizotonic* is 100% natural, and contains multiple vitamins. *Rhizotonic* influences the root environment and is the ideal supplement for the plant environment. Rhizotonic has a calming effect on plants, and is ideally suited for use when re-potting plants as well as improving plants that are unhealthy or poorly developed. 
*Rhizotonic* can be used regardless of the type of medium. It is suitable for cultivation in potting soil and in hydroponic systems. Rhizotonic is often sprayed on leaves and can be used as a simple means for raising the pH level in fertilizer tanks. 
*Root Stimulant*
*Rhizotonic* adds more than 60 microbiological substances that considerably speed up the grow of a balanced root environment. Various trace elements, vitamins such as B1 and B2 have been added to *Rhizotonic* in order to stimulate the plant production of hormones and root growth, thus providing better and stronger roots. 
*Vital plants*
Good results start with a healthy plant. There are many different ways to stimulate plants aside from maintaining the proper levels of nutrients, acidity, temperature, air and light. *Rhizotonic* does so during the rooting and growing phase. Another important element in *Rhizotonic* is the root-strengthening hormone Oligosaccharine. Scientific research showed its beneficial effect in the creation of root cells without any negative side effects. Your plants will get beautiful, strong, white roots with *Rhizotonic*


wiki:
Oligosaccharine:An *oligosaccharide* is a saccharide polymer containing a small number (typically three to ten[1]) of component sugars, also known as simple sugars
*Monosaccharides* (from Greek _monos_: single, _sacchar_: sugar) are the most basic unit of carbohydrates. They are the simplest form of sugar and are usually colorless, water-soluble, crystalline solids

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

from cana:






*Rhizotonic*

.
*Benefits of CANNA Rhizotonic:*
&#8226; Aids in the immediate generation of lush, new root growth on cuttings and transplants.
&#8226; When used as a seed soak prior to planting, it will speed up the germination process.
&#8226; Enhances overall plant growth and chemical reactions in the plant to ensure a healthier, powerful and stronger plant.
&#8226; Aids in the recovery process of any plant or cutting that has been subjected to stress in any way whatsoever.


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## born2killspam (Mar 4, 2009)

> no offense dude..... but for some reason i just dont like you... got me all paranoid about getting something for a plant for fuck sakes..... WHICH I HAVE FOUND.... and no its not a watched item its made for plants....


My bad, I apologize.. With all the talk of red phosphorous, which is a definately watched item, I had hypophosphorous acid (another watched precursor) on the brain..
BTW eza, if you're interested in hormones, then why don't you experiment with actual hormones instead of potash, and super-juices whose compositions can't even be vouched for, and are sitting in hydro stores around the world.. The link I posted sells everything you need to actually experiment with quite a few compounds..


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## Jester88 (Mar 4, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> My bad, I apologize.. With all the talk of red phosphorous, which is a definately watched item, I had hypophosphorous acid (another watched precursor) on the brain..
> BTW eza, if you're interested in hormones, then why don't you experiment with actual hormones instead of potash, and super-juices whose compositions can't even be vouched for, and are sitting in hydro stores around the world.. The link I posted sells everything you need to actually experiment with quite a few compounds..


thats cool but ya got to understand how i felt i just wanna grow myself some good quality plants every now and then, and most ferts arent quite right... im not the local cook lol. theres a different one you can get i found cant remember exactly what it is but its like 25-30 bux 20kilo bag.


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## eza82 (Mar 4, 2009)

eza82 said:


> *Dave- this is what it is....*​
> 
> *Crop Care CYCOCEL® 77A*
> *Plant Growth Regulant*
> ...





eza82 said:


> here is some stuff i want at the mo! HIGHLY CONSINTRATED !!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





born2killspam said:


> My bad, I apologize.. With all the talk of red phosphorous, which is a definately watched item, I had hypophosphorous acid (another watched precursor) on the brain..
> BTW eza, if you're interested in hormones, then why don't you experiment with actual hormones instead of potash, and super-juices whose compositions can't even be vouched for, and are sitting in hydro stores around the world.. The link I posted sells everything you need to actually experiment with quite a few compounds..


Again WTF -How are these at a hydro store ?????????? Rizo is yes, but that is for root health so that the hormones will take better? 
*70%humic acid , 15%fulvic acid* are in the same family as jasmonic, so considered hormone inducing*!*

.... these experiments take time..... and money, I have stated what I am currently usesing with great results..... starting with small but incramental steps toward full potential intake.
The idea of my studies is to produce my own from base raw compounds........provided in the agri industry! Probably making enough to supply all my mates.... 2-3 other grows...

Potash and Minerals are nessecery and unavoidable!


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## DaveTheNewbie (Mar 4, 2009)

i have some stuff called manic botanix or something like that
same thiung as rhizotonic but about 1/4 the price
works great.

EDIT : love the black thunder : ive been looking at fulvic/himic as well as silica


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## sativaplanet420 (Mar 4, 2009)

You post the most useful threads. What about using GA3 and C02?


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## eza82 (Mar 4, 2009)

This is a collection of the info on GA3 in this thread !


GIBBERELLIC ACID (GA3)

Probably the best known of the plant hormones. It's produced by the plants tips and is responsible for the plant growth. The problem with GA3, is that most growth is in the form of "stretching" which isn't always diserable, so except for seeds and clones.

GA3 has some other uses as well. You can intiate male fowers on a female plant but using high doses every day for several days. You can also induce female flowers earlier and yield bigger flowers with micro doesing.

The gibberellins are widespread throughout the plant kingdom, and more than 75 have been isolated, to date. Rather than giving each a specific name, the compounds are numbered&#8212;for example, GA1, GA2, and so on. Gibberellic acid three (GA3) is the most widespread and most thoroughly studied. The gibberellins are especially abundant in seeds and young shoots where they control stem elongation by stimulating both cell division and elongation (auxin stimulates only cell elongation). The gibberellins are carried by the xylem and phloem. Numerous effects have been cataloged that involve about 15 or fewer of the gibberellic acids. The greater number with no known effects apparently are precursors to the active ones. 

*I know there has been experimentation with GA3 sprayed on genetically dwarf plants stimulates elongation of the dwarf plants to normal heights. Normal-height plants sprayed with GA3 become giants. like addicott study on next post.*

I Found a botinist that germinationg 2000yr old exstinct SEEDS into plants with this hormone.

although the results of gibberellic acid (GA3) applications vary depending on many factors, including the type of plants its applied to. In one study of persimmon yield (1) it was found that applications of 15 to 30 PPM increased yields by 50% to 400%. In another study (2) it was even found that if gibberellic acid is applied to a plant the next generation of the plant would also benefit from faster flowering and increased height. In another study of walnut trees it was found that applications of gibbarellic acid (GA3) increased growth by 567% (3).
1) Increasing Persimmon Yields With Gibberellic Acid [www.actahort.org/books/120/120_32.htm]
2) Generations Living with Gibberellic Acid [www.sidwell.edu/us/science/vlb5/Independent_Research_Projects/cgraham/]
3) Gibberellic Acid for Fruit Set and Seed Germination [www.crfg.org/tidbits/gibberellic.html]

A study on persimmons 1 increased yield by at least 50%. This was done with a foliar spray of 15 to 30 ppm when the plants where at full bloom.
1) http://www.actahort.org/books/120/120_32.htm

retail names:
Gibberellic Acid (GA3), 

*Functions of Gibberellins* 

Active gibberellins show many physiological effects, each depending on the type of gibberellin present as well as the species of plant. Some of the physiological processes stimulated by gibberellins are outlined below (Davies, 1995; Mauseth, 1991; Raven, 1992; Salisbury and Ross, 1992). 
Stimulate stem elongation by stimulating cell division and elongation. 
Stimulates bolting/flowering in response to long days. 
Breaks seed dormancy in some plants which require stratification or light to induce germination. 
Stimulates enzyme production (a-amylase) in germinating cereal grains for mobilization of seed reserves. 
Induces maleness in dioecious flowers (sex expression). 
Can cause parthenocarpic (seedless) fruit development. 
Can delay senescence in leaves and citrus fruits. 
*UNDER A LINK on MAIN PAGE: REF to GA3*

*Recipes FOR GA3 - folia spray with penotrator i would suggest or paste*
*( this is a studied recipe so I figure we should stick to it)*

PPM 50 - GA mg 125 Water 2400ml Purpose = early flower 
PPM 200 - GA mg 125 Water 600ml Purpose = early flower 
PPM 800 - GA mg 125 Water 160ml Purpose = blossom set
PPM 2000 - GA mg 125 Water 60ml Purpose = Seed germ
1%paste - GA mg 125 Water 5ml Purpose = growth promoter

Too much youll turn your girl into boys or hermi`s

Careful shit is nasty
Although GA is not listed as a "poison", the following precautions should be observed: Flush with water any GA that may get into the eye. Avoid skin contact if possible. If skin contact is suspected, wash with soap and water. *Do not re-enter an area after spraying until the GA spray is fully dry*. Avoid ingestion of GA. 
RESULT: 
Premature flowering. If a plant is sufficiently developed, premature flowering may be induced by direct application of GA to young plants. This action is not sustained and treatment may have to be repeated. Formation of male flowers is generally promoted by concentrations of 10 to 200 ppm., female flowers by concentrations of 200 to 300 ppm. Concentrations of more than 600 ppm markedly suppresses initiation of both male and female flowers. 

Increased growth. GA applied near the terminal bud of trees may increase the rate of growth by stimulating more or less constant growth during the season. In a Department of Agriculture experiment, the GA was applied as a 1% paste in a band around the terminal bud of trees. Treatment was repeated three times during the summer. Walnut tee growth was 8.5 ft. for treated trees, 1.5 ft. for untreated trees

http://www.crfg.org/tidbits/gibberellic.html

another : Fruit trees.....
A spray of GA3 (gibberellic acid) at a concentration of 15&#8211;30 ppm at full bloom significantly increased yields (by 50&#8211;400%). In young trees (4&#8211;5 years old), a narrow (2&#8211;3 mm) girdling at the time of sprouting, together with GA3, gave best results.
*Gibberellin *
--- When seeds absorb water, the hormone gibberellin (gibberellic acid-A, GAA) appears in the embryo and activates the metabolism to initiate sprouting. GAA has been widely tested in applications to hemp. When applied to cannabis at a rate of 100 ppm in water for 2 months, GAA increases the thickness and internodal length of the stock. The terminal nodes are weak, branching is suppressed, and the roots develop poorly. Germination is stimulated by GAA, but leaf growth and the production of chlorophyll and cannabinoids are reduced proportionately. GAA treatment does not hasten the generative development of hemp, but does promote plant growth. The stem diameter increases about 250% over control plants, and the fresh weight of the stem increases 300%. Treated plants have a higher ratio of bark:wood. The number of fibers increases up to 100%. According to G. Davidyan, the greatest effect is achieved with 0.005-0.01% GAA applied before the buds form. R. Herich tested the histological reactions of hemp by soaking the seeds in 5 ppm GAA for 24 hours with these results: "The plants showed the following differences from untreated controls: decrease of stem thickness, less lignification, decreased bark development especially in lower parts of stems, decrease in number of secondary bast fibers, increase in number and size of primary bast fibers, and increased differentiation of parenchymatous pith tissue". 
(63)C.K. Atal also described the effect of GAA on hemp: "Gibberellin-treated plants showed a greater number of fibers as compared to controls. The individual fibers were larger in diameter, more lignified, and up to 10 times as long as the fibers from the untreated plants." 
(64)F. Yanishevskii studied the effect of GAA on the nitrogen metabolism of hemp: "Stem lengthening took place mainly by cell extension. Net weight even decreased somewhat. Chlorophyll concentration decreased noticeably... Plants treated with GAA contained less N than controls. GAA exerted a considerable influence on the N metabolism of hemp plants: in treated plants the amount of protein N decreased 2-fold, but, in contrast, the soluble forms of N increased markedly. Treatment with GAA had almost no effect on the content of N fractions of cell components (nuclei, plastids). Nucleic acid content decreased mainly owing to decrease in the amount of RNA. Accumulation of soluble forms of N under the influence of GAA would indicate that the introduction of nitrogenous fertilizers (as recommended by Witter and Bucovac) would hardly make up for the unfavorable effect of GAA on the N metabolism of hemp." 
(65)N. Yakushkina and L. Chuikova also tested the action of GAA and Indole-Acetic Acid (IAA, auxin) on hemp: "GAA intensified the growth of the plants, the average dry weight per plant, the photosynthesis rate, the sugar content (especially of the stem) and that of total N, and the respiration rate, but decreased the content of chlorophyll in the leaves. The separate application of IAA (find auxin ) caused a decrease in the growth and yield of the plants, and a considerable increase in the chlorophyll content, but decreased the photosynthesis rate. The simultaneous application of GAA and IAA was accompanied by the highest increase in yield, but this addition of IAA did not exert any substantial influence on the physiological processes.
" (66 )GAA also increases the length of the growing season. GAA will inhibit the formation of flowers on Cannabis; it must not be used during the flowering phase of growth. GAA will accelerate the onset
of budding by about 7 days. Treatment of plants with 25 mg GAA/liter results in 80% of the plants being male. Female hemp usually undergoes sex reversal to a male expression, but few of the male plants produce female flowers. Thus, G. Davidyan and S. Kutuzova reported: "Gibberellin causes the formation of male flowers, containing fertile pollen, on genetically female plants." 
(67)V. Khryanin treated dioecious hemp with GAA (25 mg/liter) and produced monoecious feminized staminate hemp from the common pistillate form: "Gibberellin, as a hormone of the plant organism, probably depresses genes which participate in the formation of flowers which have been repressed. "Thus GAA can be used by breeders to develop monoecious cannabis from dioecious forms. Preliminary tests are necessary to determine the most effective concentration and best timing for each cultivar.
The effect of GAA is removed by abscisic acid (ABA), which will initiate flowering. Treatment of plants with ABA (10 mg/liter) results in all plants being female or bisexual. The ABA can be overcome by increasing the concentration of GAA.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAKE YOUR OWN GAA:
Gibberellin is extracted from cucumber seeds, fresh cantelope seeds, dried corn kernels, and from pencil rod, lupine, and pinto beans. Soak 200 grams of powdered seeds in 110 ml of a mixture of acetone (10 parts), isopropyl alcohol (5 p), ethanol (2 p), and water (5 p). Filter the mush and rinse it with 20 ml acetone and 20 ml isopropyl alcohol. Combine the rinse and the mother liquor, then evaporate the solvent. Dissolve the gum in alkaline water for experimental use.


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## eza82 (Mar 4, 2009)

Carbon - co2 is the last thing I will add after Ihave all of this dialed - hense Hormones vs Co2 - its really Hormones, PGR`s, vitimins, acids......VS....Co2

Plants are proven to INCREASE up to 40%-60% in growth and yeild...thats proven..
So i figure double my yeild with the introduction of the above then intro the carbon !


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## eza82 (Mar 4, 2009)

DaveTheNewbie said:


> i have some stuff called manic botanix or something like that
> same thiung as rhizotonic but about 1/4 the price
> works great.
> 
> EDIT : love the black thunder : ive been looking at fulvic/himic as well as silica


It looks yummy ! It will induce alot more sugars for the plant and flower to feed on ! Adding weight and create full/soild buds !


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## eza82 (Mar 5, 2009)

Ladies and gents - The new arival !





PURE FALVIC ACID - Growtek - Platinum series ( picked ther Super Oxy H2O2 as well..)






what is it ?
From what I understand "fulvic acid" , is naturally occurring organic, bio-available, plant-derived Vitamins, Minerals, Amino acids, Enzymes and a vast array of other organic *macro*, *micro*, *nano* and *angstrom* size nutrients and phytonutrients created and provided naturally by nature. 
It is an EXTRACT OF HUMIC material that is water soluble...they are chelators..(help get shit in through leaf and root)

I plan to use this to help promote all of these influences by useing once during flower and once during veg.....

AS PER BOTTLE!;

Fulvic Acid is a pure extract used to promote the uptake of minerals in plants - (Natural Catalyst like substance). made from pure mineral ingredients it is accepted by organic associations as a natural componet or additive. foliar or water water treatment.

- stronger plants
- high dry weight yeild
- decrease water stress
- buffer from rapid PH change
- imporoves soil soil and structure










*--------------------------------------------------*
*Quick study done by CSIRO.......*
*The effect of foliar application of fulvic acid on water use, nutrient uptake and yield in wheat*

_X Xudan _

*Abstract*

The effect of foliar application of fulvic acid (FA) on water use, nutrient uptake and yield in wheat was studied in pot experiments and in field trials. FA reduced the stomatal conductance of well-watered plants in pots from ~0.80 to ~0.25 cm s-1. The stomatal conductance of control plants fell continuously from ~0.85 m s-1 to almost zero over a 9-day drying cycle. Plants sprayed with FA at the beginning of the cycle maintained a stomatal conductance of ~0.30 cm s-1 for the whole period. Spraying with FA resulted in a higher level of chlorophyll in the leaves and a greater uptake of 32P by the roots. When droughted at ear-development stage, grain yield was depressed by 30%. Spraying with FA increased the yield of droughted plants to 97% of the irrigated controls. Field trials in North China demonstrated that when FA was used to decrease the water stress or the stress imposed by hot, dry winds during ear development, grain yield increased by 7.3-18.0%.


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## eza82 (Mar 5, 2009)

&& 







NPK; 0:0:16
Utilizing silicon in its potassium form together with a suite of complimentary micro nutrients, DUTCH MASTER SILICA is the most soluble & plant available (aparently !)
----------------------------------------------------------------
We have done heaps on this so I will not go into to it too much..

i am going to use 1ml per 3 ltr - replace every two weeks or change of tank

Ingredents are "pharmaceutical grade "!
silicon ; 6.600
pottassium; 10.000
carbon: 0.020
Mg: 0.041




For usage instructions click link below or cut and paste to your browser.


http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/?language=english&page=product&product=SILICA


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## eza82 (Mar 6, 2009)

And I burnt the shit outta my fingers (H2o2) !!! Bottle leaked ended up on my fingers, had no oppertunity to wash..... untill hour later....fingers TURNED WHITE and burnt like shit ! lol.... still tingles but the white came off after MANY mANY washs.with a layer of skin !......lol


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## eza82 (Mar 7, 2009)

*MY NEW STRAINS.. SHOULD BE HERE IN A WEEK OR TWO !*
*BETTER THAN CRISSY ! *
*and refference for me !*

*




*
*Lemon Skunk ...FEMinised*
*This strain is a cross between two Skunks, the chosen phenotype selected for its lemon characteristics. The Lemon mother has been kept for over 20 years in Las Vegas and the father was chosen here in Holland. The male was donated by Eddie, formally the owner of one of the oldest and most prestigious seed banks in the Netherlands. This original prize male was selected and used in many breeding projects throughout the years. The Lemon Skunk will grow tall and is a good yielder. She has great smelling buds. Her buds are light green with thick orange hairs. She has a high calyx to leaf ratio. This strain is the tastiest and sweetest if she is cut down between 50 and 56 days. We would like to thank the Lemon Man and Eddie for making this possible!
Skunk
60% Sativa : 40% Indica
Flowering Time: 8-9 weeks
Yield: 400-500g/m2
* 







*Cheese - Feminised*
Strain type: Sativa/ Indica Hybrid
Parents: Afghani (male) X Cheese (female) x5
Growing Info: Indoors: Flowering time 7-9 weeks
Outdoors: End of Oct. start of Nov.
Sensory Experience: Very uplifting High, No Ceiling, Clear, Long-lasting.
Smell: unique, pungent, old Skool aroma
Taste: very appealing, fruity, fresh
Yield: Indoors: average of 250- 400g per square metre (with 600w dependant on grower, environment)







*Blueberry - ...feminised*
1st price &quot;High Times Cup&quot; 2000 
3rd price &quot;High Times Cup&quot; 2001
Our Original Blueberry is a mostly Indica (80% Indica, 20% Sativa) strain, that dates to the late 1970&#8217;s. A large producer under optimum conditions. A dense and stout plant with red, purple and finally blue hues, that usually cure to a lavender blue. The finished product has a very fruity aroma and taste of blueberry. It produces a notable and pleasantly euphoric high of the highest quality and is very long lasting. Medium to large calyxes.
THC = 19.5%, CBD &lt; 0.1%
Flowering period: 8 &#8211; 10 weeks
Harvest time outdoor: 2nd &#8211; 3rd week of Oct.






*Blue Cheese ...feminised*
Blue Cheese was created, first, by selecting a blueberry male from the entire collection of several different breeder versions of blueberry. The selected male was then crossed with our proud mother, and the backbone of many of our breeding projects; the original UK cheese.
From these crosses a male with extremely fruity characteristics was chosen as the father of our Blue Cheese.
Strain type: Sativa / Indica Hybrid (25% Blueberry 75% Cheese)
Parents:Blueberry x Cheese (male) X original UK Cheese (female) 
Growing Info: Flowering time 8-10 weeks
Outdoors: End of Oct. start of Nov.
Sensory Experience: Highly euphoric, Very functional, 
Smell: A Sweet, Fruity, Tarty, Berry scent, with that recognised musky undertone of the original cheese
Taste: Potent, Blueberry, Fresh taste






*Original Skuk...feminised*
The strain that changed cannabis culture and has astonished weed lovers for more than a quarter-century is now available from Sensi Seeds as a top-quality feminised variety!
Breeders regard Skunk #1 as the benchmark of uniform, reliable performance and her rock-solid genotype has influenced a hundred modern hybrids. The potency of this branch of the cannabis family tree is so notorious that &#8216;skunk&#8217; is often used as a general term for all powerful ganja.
Sensi&#180;s new feminised Skunk #1 is remarkably uniform when grown from seed, with plants displaying consistent structure and regular bud formation time and time again. In almost 30 years of experience with the strain, this is the finest example of feminised Skunk #1 that we&#180;ve ever seen!
Skunk #1&#8217;s energetic performance and bountiful yields demonstrate the true meaning of hybrid vigour. Growth and flowering are mostly-Indica in appearance, though Skunk plants gain more height than pure Indicas when blooming. Flowering is both rapid and rewarding, as Skunk #1 produces robust stems and branches to support her superior yields. Short internode gaps explode into dense, rounded bud-clusters which merge into huge, heavy colas by harvest time. Skunk #1&#8217;s Sativa genes have a subtle effect on flower structure plus a wonderful influence on her effect &#8211; a stunningly potent combination of stone and high!
Flowering: 45-50 days
Yield: 100g
Height: 120-150cm






*A.M.S. (Anti mould system ...feminised*
Awards: Not yet introduced in competitions.
Genetics: Swiss sativa, Swiss indica.
Effect: Strong high, with a clearside and a more introspective one. Very particular taste, sweet and complex.
Flowering indoor: 9 weeks will deliver the most amount of resin. Commercial growers harvest in 8 weeks. Yield between 500 and 700 gr/sqm.
Flowering outdoor: Will finish by begin October in the Northern hemisphere, or by mid May in the Southern. Yield up to 800 gr/plant. Mould resistant strain!
THC: 15%
CBD: 1.1%
CBN: 0.7%
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
*ABOUT $70.00 AUD*


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## eza82 (Mar 7, 2009)

im going to have to run a 9 wk flower cycle now I think ! - keeping on the blue chesse and blueberry for another week.....


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## ProfessorMembrane (Mar 7, 2009)

That industrial strength H2O2 is dangerous stuff! Always wear gloves when handling, and always move from the large bottle to your measuring device with a turkey baster or other siphon, if you have a chemical siphon with a thumb stop and not an air bulb, all the better, those tiny drops burn as much as big ones.

I mix a lot of H2O2 in advanced to make sure I don't end up handling this chemical very often. Remember that 12:1 ratios will be slightly less than 3% H2O2, ignore the label and mix at a rate of 11.8:1 for a proper 3% concentration.


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## eza82 (Mar 7, 2009)

ProfessorMembrane said:


> That industrial strength H2O2 is dangerous stuff! Always wear gloves when handling, and always move from the large bottle to your measuring device with a turkey baster or other siphon, if you have a chemical siphon with a thumb stop and not an air bulb, all the better, those tiny drops burn as much as big ones.
> 
> I mix a lot of H2O2 in advanced to make sure I don't end up handling this chemical very often. Remember that 12:1 ratios will be slightly less than 3% H2O2, ignore the label and mix at a rate of 11.8:1 for a proper 3% concentration.


THANX PROFFESOR !
was unsure of dose rates....... I have too many different stratergies !
thanx for your opinion !

This stuff is crazy, (h2o2) i will be wearing gloves in future !
The other was FULVIC aciid, luckly didnt not get any on my self........ but that stuff smells like it woiuld melt your face off....

applyed the fulvic outdoors, plants reacted like an `over watering" the apical tips..... new leaf / smaller leaf has swollen up.

And have put more of there stink on !!!


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## born2killspam (Mar 7, 2009)

Hydrogen peroxide is not a hormone in any way shape or form.. Its an oxygen source thats it..
Professor, one point worth making if you end up soring your diluted portions for extended periods is that the weaker the solution, the less stable it is.. 3% solutions will lose more relative potency than your 35% lot.. 
A replacement (for soil atleast) is calcium peroxide.. Its stable, safe to handle, and converts to H2O2 then releases oxygen slowly over time.. Again, not a hormone, just a way to help roots/microbes breathe..


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## spiked1 (Mar 7, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> cummon spiked one dont be an asswipe (not in a bad way) you already know i wanna know the outcome to your la femme test. and besides he said sorry.... WE ALL HAVE OUR BAD DAYS i know i have.. cept im a bit funny if someone puts me back in ma place and wins an arguement in the end i rep em lol.
> 
> besides i know kids that could tell you more than most adults could about this sacred plant.... i was one of em in my wild days lol.... it doesnt matter as long as you can grow good bud and share some wisdom.. well thats the oppinion im of.....
> 
> ...


True, what you said, so I'm not disagreeing.
I've been having a hard time at work lately and once again I've over reacted to something I would normally take in my stride, I don't hold grudges and never stay angry at anyone for very long.
I actually came back to this post to delete what I said but I'm not sure I want to re visit the angry words that were spoken.
So sorry guys, this has been one of my favourite threads with a lot of good input from people who know more than me. So dont let me fuck it up.


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## spiked1 (Mar 7, 2009)

eza82 said:


> I posted the same PM for all to see ! sorry to im trying to help, and the OP in each thread state exactly that.... all info has refference attached... so how do you think i claim all as my own ? And figure I own the forum ? What are you talking about.... please have another spliff and chill.....
> Im here for research as are others not so much the social side so yes i collect info to share... it takes me hrs of reading & research to find this shit ! Sorry you did take the post to heart...... ive touched on a soar note obviously, I appologised in PM and in open forum........
> Growing for 36yrs ... and your experimenting with rooting hormone ??
> I dont want to make this a bash thread so lets hope you truley stick to your word and leave !


Hi eza, just want to apolagise for the the crap I said.
I was just in a really bad mood after fighting with my boss and saw your pm and over reacted like a spoilt kid. I didn't notice your apology so sorry for offending you. What I said was in anger and looking back at it I cant believe that it was me who wrote it, as I don't even agree with some of what I said.
You've been doing some really good work here eza and some of you guys know a shitload more than me, you are also doing some experiments that I have tried as well, such as uv lighting and cytokinin, and hormones, so of course I'm interested.
Anyway, I hope we can be adults and get over it. Cheers.


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## eza82 (Mar 7, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Hydrogen peroxide is not a hormone in any way shape or form.. Its an oxygen source thats it..


welcome back !  
I am useing this as stated to effectivly MAXIMISE the uptake of hormones in the root system..... and add some more oxygen to my already poteient mix.....



spiked1 said:


> Hi eza, just want to apolagise for the the crap I said.
> I was just in a really bad mood after fighting with my boss and saw your pm and over reacted like a spoilt kid. I didn't notice your apology so sorry for offending you. What I said was in anger and looking back at it I cant believe that it was me who wrote it, as I don't even agree with some of what I said.
> You've been doing some really good work here eza and some of you guys know a shitload more than me, you are also doing some experiments that I have tried as well, such as uv lighting and cytokinin, and hormones, so of course I'm interested.
> Anyway, I hope we can be adults and get over it. Cheers.


Accepted.....We have all been there  ! - I think from memory I was in a bad mood as well ! So I appologise....lol
lets just play the hand of god lol!

Hormones I too have played with but the PRE Bottled typr versions.... since looking into the agri/hort industry there are alot of variations out there !


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## born2killspam (Mar 7, 2009)

Hormone uptake?? Through the root system?? The roots don't transport all this complex stuff that ppl seem to think they do.. They primary uptake ions via a proton gradient.. Aside from that and water, not that much at all makes it up the xylem.. Anything complex that you add to your root system is to improve the soil ecosystem.. Microbes can use them as an energy source to produce more salts/ions.. 
And H2O2 can backfire pretty bad on the microbes.. CaO2 will buffer against those problems..
Unless your hormone is to act directly on root tissue, then applying it at root level is a waste or a scam (unless it isn't actually hormone).. By definition, a hormone is something that the plant can produce internally.. Typically the direction of travel is downwards.. Thats why they're typically applied to new foliage/stems..


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## eza82 (Mar 7, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Hormone uptake?? Through the root system?? The roots don't transport all this complex stuff that ppl seem to think they do.. They primary uptake ions via a proton gradient.. Aside from that and water, not that much at all makes it up the xylem.. Anything complex that you add to your root system is to improve the soil ecosystem.. Microbes can use them as an energy source to produce more salts/ions..
> And H2O2 can backfire pretty bad on the microbes.. CaO2 will buffer against those problems..
> Unless your hormone is to act directly on root tissue, then applying it at root level is a waste or a scam (unless it isn't actually hormone).. By definition, a hormone is something that the plant can produce internally.. Typically the direction of travel is downwards.. Thats why they're typically applied to new foliage/stems..


I agree.. at the moment as per my dose schedual... carbs and sugars are my primary.. the induction of.... MAINLY FOLIA APPLICATION. Have used Cytokinins with in the watering program....
My understanding......
*Auxin* would be released when a root or shoot meristematic (young) cell finds that it contains more than enough shoot derived nutrients mainly sugar, and all other environmental conditions are favorable for growth. 
and travel in southern direction only.
*Cytokinin* would be made when meristematic cells are bathed in more than enough nutrients of the sort normally provided by the root, mainly water and minerals and all other conditions are favorable for growth. 
Northly direction only.
*Gibberellin/Brassinostreroid* would be made when mature cells have less than enough shoot nutrients, i.e. sugar and Oxygen to survive especially if environmental conditions are poor. 
found in all areas especially new growth.


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## Jester88 (Mar 7, 2009)

true to an extent but still not true

if that was entirely the case people couldnt water with sugar water and make there shit taste like crap but weigh more. and other things of the sort... and aldo if that was the case y do most hydrophonic solutions contain them????

truth is they can absorb a certain amount of anything it may kill it but it will draw some up none the less.. providing its nt to acidic and just fry it lol....

these are just two things that should help you think otherwise.... also different application plays a part when working with hormones.... 

sorry for the shitty examples i tried to make a long story short.... but to put it simply i disagree yet agree with you on that statement


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## born2killspam (Mar 7, 2009)

http://www.phytotechlab.com/


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## eza82 (Mar 7, 2009)

NICE LINK !!!!

$12.95US - 100ml 6-BEN as solution ! - thats cheap ! and in a good quantity... i could only find 1ltr as smallest....


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## eza82 (Mar 7, 2009)

Once I have all of these chemicals inline, I will do a proper experiment with photos every 2 days, use 10-15 SOG type plants of same strain.....
My spread sheet is geting there, still a long way off....


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## born2killspam (Mar 7, 2009)

I just reposted that link.. It was one of the first things I posted here..


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## spiked1 (Mar 8, 2009)

I'm curious about using h2o2, I always thought it was more of a hydro thing as it kills all the goodies in the soil mix.
We discussed it's use when I was doing my masters at uni about 2 years ago, but that was mainly about it's use in infection control.
I add Tarantula and Piranha with mollasses to my soil substrate and H202 would destroy them all.
I also aerate my water after letting it sit in the sun for an hour (1 hour is long enough to dissipate the chlorine) to add more oxygen to the soil.


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## spiked1 (Mar 8, 2009)

Also about *Cytokinins, *I use Nytrozyme, it's great stuff and claims to increase Cytokinin properties, the natural plant hormones necessary for plant growth.
Some info here, or google for more.
http://justhydroponics.com.au/products/Nitrozyme_1_Ltr-18-45.html


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## born2killspam (Mar 8, 2009)

Hydro typically aims for sterility, hence the abundance of H2O2.. To keep the soil happy you need to provide it in slow release form, hence CaO2.. Its a proven agricultural additive, and you can make it with H2O2 and lime, but its cheaper to buy I think..
Soils love fresh atmospheric air if you can find a way to pump it in somewhat.. That has oxygen, and nitrogen for the N-fixers..


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## spiked1 (Mar 8, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Hydro typically aims for sterility, hence the abundance of H2O2.. To keep the soil happy you need to provide it in slow release form, hence CaO2.. Its a proven agricultural additive, and you can make it with H2O2 and lime, but its cheaper to buy I think..
> Soils love fresh atmospheric air if you can find a way to pump it in somewhat.. That has oxygen, and nitrogen for the N-fixers..


That's why I aerate my water. Haven't heard of Ca02 so I'll check it out, but does it affect the benificial mycrobes?


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## eza82 (Mar 8, 2009)

h2O2 - YOU WOULD ONLY USE FOR INDOORS !

(out doors - I run by a old theory - "feed the soil not the plant")

spiked...."masters at uni about 2 years ago" WHAT IN ?
Just started my cert 1 in Horticulture / modern technology !


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## spiked1 (Mar 8, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Hormone uptake?? Through the root system?? The roots don't transport all this complex stuff that ppl seem to think they do.. They primary uptake ions via a proton gradient.. Aside from that and water, not that much at all makes it up the xylem.. Anything complex that you add to your root system is to improve the soil ecosystem.. Microbes can use them as an energy source to produce more salts/ions..
> And H2O2 can backfire pretty bad on the microbes.. CaO2 will buffer against those problems..
> Unless your hormone is to act directly on root tissue, then applying it at root level is a waste or a scam (unless it isn't actually hormone).. By definition, a hormone is something that the plant can produce internally.. Typically the direction of travel is downwards.. Thats why they're typically applied to new foliage/stems..


Man you said that really well, the only hormones I have used are with penetrator and foliar sprayed. I guess that's why the instructions say to foliar spray. Makes sense.


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## spiked1 (Mar 8, 2009)

eza82 said:


> h2O2 - YOU WOULD ONLY USE FOR INDOORS !
> 
> (out doors - I run by a old theory - "feed the soil not the plant")
> 
> ...


Lets just say I'm in the Dental field, I don't want to give too much away on a public site, I could lose my license to practice.


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## eza82 (Mar 8, 2009)

ahhh i thought plant related ! LOL


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## eza82 (Mar 8, 2009)

will have to update the outdors !
3.5ft buds !


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## spiked1 (Mar 8, 2009)

Even indoors I do organic and like to feed the soil and not the plant.
That's why I have my own worm farm and use Tarantula and Piranha with mollasses to help feed them.
I've been experimenting with feeding my worms certain foods high in either N,P or K.
But this is more a long term experiment, especially now as I've been fighting a soldier fly infestation for 4 months now, they lay around 500 eggs through the vent holes and the larvae eat everything voratiously but dont produce castings, just a sloppy mess.
Damn Queensland, the global world of bugs.


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## spiked1 (Mar 8, 2009)

So eza, how did that amazing plant go.
I experimented with a tanning light, 5x 25cm tubes putting out 290 to 400 nm on a lowrider 2 but it got severely sunburnt from too much exposure, then I accidently mixed it in with other buds so not sure if it worked.


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## eza82 (Mar 8, 2009)

spiked1 said:


> So eza, how did that amazing plant go.
> I experimented with a tanning light, 5x 25cm tubes putting out 290 to 400 nm on a lowrider 2 but it got severely sunburnt from too much exposure, then I accidently mixed it in with other buds so not sure if it worked.









These will come off next week...thursday ! (this was about a week ago !)
My guess is i have broken my previous record of a 28grm crown (dry)...
My prediction is both crown`s = 35grm+ dry


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## DaveTheNewbie (Mar 8, 2009)

nice pics!

here is my noob question :
i have the full range of canadian xpress nutes. http://www.canadianxpress.com/
do i need either a PGR (like rock juice) or a silica additive (like budlink) as i dont believe i have either in my mix.


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## eza82 (Mar 8, 2009)

DaveTheNewbie said:


> nice pics!
> 
> here is my noob question :
> i have the full range of canadian xpress nutes. http://www.canadianxpress.com/
> do i need either a PGR (like rock juice) or a silica additive (like budlink) as i dont believe i have either in my mix.


What do you want to achieve ???? 
I found that Rock juice stopped growth of the palnt and put all its energy into flower ! So it didnt gain another CM after final application... so i would leave that till late in the cycle...
I would JUST use SILCA (its cheap in comparison).. and PK13-14... 
Candian express they are pretty complete... 
these suggestions are just wieght additives ! Neither are hormones....
If you want hormones thats different again !
(though there is trace auxin and cytokinins in rock juice )


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## eza82 (Mar 8, 2009)

WANT SOME OPINIONS FROM YOU GUYS !

I currently growing RED CLOVER, should be done in a few weeks??i think, I want the phytoestrogens from this plant..... In your opinion what would the best way to extract (SIMPLY & NO CHEMICALS) this out of my plant matter !??????


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## born2killspam (Mar 8, 2009)

spiked1 said:


> That's why I aerate my water. Haven't heard of Ca02 so I'll check it out, but does it affect the benificial mycrobes?


Here is a commercial product.. http://www.environmental-expert.com/STSE_resulteach_product.aspx?cid=8491&idprofile=1717&idproduct=16716


> So eza, how did that amazing plant go.
> I experimented with a tanning light, 5x 25cm tubes putting out 290 to 400 nm on a lowrider 2 but it got severely sunburnt from too much exposure, then I accidently mixed it in with other buds so not sure if it worked


Thats alot of UV spiked, how far above was that? I'm not surprised by burning..


> Even indoors I do organic and like to feed the soil and not the plant.
> That's why I have my own worm farm and use Tarantula and Piranha with mollasses to help feed them.
> I've been experimenting with feeding my worms certain foods high in either N,P or K.


There is nothing wrong with salt based fertilizers if you know how to use them.. Organics are good for a plethora of micros, and naturally buffers against mistakes, but it ends up as salts eventually anyway..

I've been reading about Rock Juice.. It does look like a good product.. I can't find MSDS's or anything like that, but common belief is that it contains paclobutrazol.. Where I grew up there was a really short growing season, so ppl used 'paclo' in their gardens to kick off maturity.. Sometimes it backfired badly though.. Dunno if its timing or dosage problems, or what..
Paclobutrazol is rare in the sense that it can be effectively taken up through the roots due to its high polarity and solubility in water..
To my knowledge its merely a regulator via giberellin antagonism, and not an actual endogenous hormone, but I could be wrong..
Dave, you don't 'need' additives.. If this is your first go, then you might want to keep it simple, then play around later..


> I currently growing RED CLOVER, should be done in a few weeks??i think, I want the phytoestrogens from this plant..... In your opinion what would the best way to extract (SIMPLY & NO CHEMICALS) this out of my plant matter !??????


And eza, good luck with that extraction.. Might I suggest fine tweezers, and a good magnifying glass to hunt down/nab those estrogen molecules?..


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## eza82 (Mar 8, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> And eza, good luck with that extraction.. Might I suggest fine tweezers, and a good magnifying glass to hunt down/nab those estrogen molecules?..


ROFL, B2kill....very funny !
Come on I know you would have simple extraction thoughts ! Getting this outta that ! Or is that penatrating thoughts ???!!! LOL
It seems as though the goodies come out through a boiling process. (this is what has been suggested for the human consumption)


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## eza82 (Mar 8, 2009)

--- DISASTER-----------ALMOST!
I went outside this morning to check girls (which were fine yesterday at 12) Its had rained last night (not very heavy) but enough to wiegh down half the buds on bonsi and Mrs bigs -- to fall over and NEARLY snap off....
After about an hour of FURTHER tieing they are good ! 
But looks like a spider web of tires and wire ! - I have never had a outdoor plant fall over !
will update photos ! soon !

hate to think if I had a field of this strain ! and it rained?? youd be fucked ! - And where would you tie it to the clouds ??


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## Jester88 (Mar 8, 2009)

empty your inbox


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## ProfessorMembrane (Mar 9, 2009)

eza82 said:


> THANX PROFFESOR !
> was unsure of dose rates....... I have too many different stratergies !
> thanx for your opinion !
> 
> ...


The dosage at 3% is 30ml H2O2 per gallon of water for plants in all stages of growth, the industrial stuff claims 1 drop per gallon is their dosage rate, amateurs. I wish American Chemical still sold food grade H2O2 to the public.


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## Jester88 (Mar 10, 2009)

hows mrs big doin???? just thought id ask its been a little since they broke


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## eza82 (Mar 10, 2009)

Jester88 said:


> hows mrs big doin???? just thought id ask its been a little since they broke


great.... base ball bat bud!  hERE WE COME !
GET SOME PHOTOS FOR YA ! aNOTHER COULE OF DAYS ! THEY ARE LOOKIN PERRRTTTTTYYYYYYYY!



YOU ALL GOT TO CHECK OUT MY NEW THREAD !!!!

 Chilli,chilli & more chillis..... Just starting a CHILLI SEED company! JOURNEL!!!!


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## eza82 (Mar 10, 2009)

OUTDOORIES UPDATE !
























































THIS GIVES YOU SCALE..... im 6ft


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## eza82 (Mar 10, 2009)

*im 6ft !!!!!!!!!!!!!! THATS mrs big !!!*

*dID YOU GUYS SEE ALL THE wires ?????*


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## eza82 (Mar 10, 2009)

In my persuit of PHYTOESTROGENS ...... here is my RED clover just sprouted...2days !


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## eza82 (Mar 11, 2009)

THERE HERE ! THERE HERE! -NOW TO GERM!


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## DaveTheNewbie (Mar 11, 2009)

so why do you buy feminised seeds after all that work making normal seeds female ??


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## eza82 (Mar 11, 2009)

LOl...Have a need for some soild genes and mothers !


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## born2killspam (Mar 11, 2009)

Then you should buy regular seeds, and select quality females.. Feminized seeds are lower genetic quality by crop growing and breeding standards..


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## eza82 (Mar 11, 2009)

this is a first from bought seed.... I just need some mothers for cuttings !
Im a cutings guy/ hate seed - irregularity ....... ill stick with my family strain for majority! these are for personal - Your right ... if they are bad beans ! 
i can still create hermi ??
+ i only bought 1 bean of most except the lemon skunk and AMS... i wasnt sure they would get through !

Im breeding chillis though !


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## ProfessorMembrane (Mar 11, 2009)

About H2O2 and Microbes...

H2O2 is not bad for all Microbes, merely a lot of them, especially those that are easily cultured and used in hydro products because of their cheaper cost compared to specialized aerobic microbes. The added oxygen from H2O2 will actually help feed aerobic beneficials, such as those found in properly aerated compost tea.

I run several large perpetual organic setups using enriched soil as the only source of nutrition, I feed 30ml H2O2 in every gallon of water, for every stage of plant life. One of the larger benefits is H2O2s ability to keep your plant from becoming waterlogged in a wet medium, which allows for less individual adjusting of drip lines.


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## spiked1 (Mar 14, 2009)

My LA FEMME plants are now starting to show preflowers.
5 have clearly visible pistols and 5 are undetermined, but it's likely I'll know soon.


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## spiked1 (Mar 14, 2009)

Hey eza, how did your harvest go, thursday was D day from memory.
Mine are at 41 days since 12/12 so maybe an easter harvest for some, but I have some sativas that look like they'll take another 10 weeks the way they are going.
Here's some pics of my Durban Poison x Skunk no.1 that I crossed with PPP, Pure Power Plant from nirvana, at 41 days.


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## spiked1 (Mar 14, 2009)

Some lowryder2 I crossed with Durban Poison x Skunk no,1.
These are the ones I used La Femme on and resulted in 20 females and 1 male.
Unfortunately my veg room was getting too crowded so I stuck them at the back of my flowering room, so they only get 12/12 now and arern't directly under the lights so yeild will be reduced.


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## spiked1 (Mar 14, 2009)

These are seeds I bought from cannabisseeds.com for $60 US.
That was for Northern Lights as well, none of them sprouted.
In fact only 5 beans popped out of 48, 4 lots of 12 seeds, take away 2 males and I have 3 females left, the White Widow's were supposedlt feminised but 1 was a male.
You will notice that they all look identical, but they were supposedly-
1 x White Widow
1 x White Rhino
1 x G13

They look like a Thai sative or similar, and when put under 12/12 thay quadrupled their size growing higher than the lights will go, so I did some serious bending and tying down.
The buds at 41 days of 12/12 are very small, so I think it will take a long time to mature into small buds.


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## DaveTheNewbie (Mar 15, 2009)

sounds very unlucky ... or dodgy


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## spiked1 (Mar 15, 2009)

DaveTheNewbie said:


> sounds very unlucky ... or dodgy


I think dodgy is the correct phrase.


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## eza82 (Mar 15, 2009)

cannabisseeds.com - I have not really even hear of em! - PICK nMIX .the only good one I know of..... I will give you germination rate nxt week they should go in on wen -thurs night !


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## DaveTheNewbie (Mar 15, 2009)

im a big fan of gypsy nirvana


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## born2killspam (Mar 15, 2009)

They're jacking their prices.. cannabisseeds.com used to offer 20 bagseeds labelled with whatever name you choose for $20.. A buck/seed..


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## eza82 (Mar 17, 2009)

Hey guys sorry for the lack of posts- 
Playing with CHILLI`s ! breeding them and useing for hormones to make them hotter and get bigger fruit etc !

update-------------------------------------

just harvested my experiment FREAKS (guess 35+ grm crowny`s) ! will post pics soon !


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## eza82 (Mar 19, 2009)

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... i ended up with alittle bit of mold in my crowns !!!! TOO BIG !!!!! ..... pulled apart to dry.... NOT GOOD !!!!!!
Still it wieghed 54grms wet after one day dry........ all good i have all new strains just starting... including AMS so i will repeat hormones for this strain ! I had very low humidity for the last 2 weeks around 30% at 24 degree celcius.... I think it may be from my middle period where i jacked up HUMIDITY heavly.... and result is a light brown mould in the guts of the crown bud ( moister stuck inside the monster! ) The rest of the buds are fine ! Just the two crowns! both 50grms + wet........


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## spiked1 (Mar 19, 2009)

That completely sucks, I've found mould inside some great heads before and I know how it feels.


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## eza82 (Mar 19, 2009)

I had seen a little white inside the bud but didnt think much of it !have not done any folia in weeks.... so the last thing i was thinking was mold ! Win some ya lose some !
I am going to have to back of from additives for next grow of the strain !.... but will experiment further with AMS.........

Have started A data mining project on chillis with hormones... AS well as 4 seedlings, that now have 2 FEM CUTTINGS that have been dosed to the eye balls with NAA and IBA... and 2 that have not..


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## spiked1 (Mar 20, 2009)

Not good news on my La Femme experiment I'm afraid.
Pre-Flowers show 5 Females and 5 males.
I've sprayed the 5 males with some more La Femme last weekend and the male balls changed, but no pistols.
Tommorow I'm putting the 5 suss plants into my flower room (12/12) and will give them another dose of La Femme, and on Monday I'm going to give them some Dutch Master Reverse, and again 1 week later as per their instructions.
I wouldn't mind 1 male as I want (need) some more seeds for breeding and crossing etc.


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## eza82 (Mar 20, 2009)

My experimants are based on FEM CUTTINGS, so I am essentially not useing for its pupose more for an inhancer or exsisting attributes.
Spiked sorry to hear that champ... but if ya needed some balls to play god...then all good !


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## spiked1 (Mar 20, 2009)

eza82 said:


> My experimants are based on FEM CUTTINGS, so I am essentially not useing for its pupose more for an inhancer or exsisting attributes.
> Spiked sorry to hear that champ... but if ya needed some balls to play god...then all good !


It's no great loss, at worst I'm back where I would have been anyway.
I'll be harvesting some of my current crop soon, easter weekend is what I'm thinking,(hoping)
These pics were taken 1 week ago at 41 days of 12/12,
I dosed them with La Femme at 12/12, and again 1 week later after reading about your plant eza, the leaves are much greener than they look because of the HPS.
I gave them some PK13/14 during week 6 as well.


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## eza82 (Mar 20, 2009)

spiked1 said:


> It's no great loss, at worst I'm back where I would have been anyway.
> I'll be harvesting some of my current crop soon, easter weekend is what I'm thinking,(hoping)
> These pics were taken 1 week ago at 41 days of 12/12,
> I dosed them with La Femme at 12/12, and again 1 week later after reading about your plant eza, the leaves are much greener than they look because of the HPS.
> I gave them some PK13/14 during week 6 as well.


they look fuckin nice bro !  well done keep me posted ! 
My blue cheese , Uk cheese, Lemon skunk, AMS are popped and going strong !
I am going to harvest my outdoors NEXT WEEK !! --- YIPPEEEEE!!

Guessing 5-6 Pound..... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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## DaveTheNewbie (Mar 21, 2009)

god im not near an outdoor harvest yet


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## Jester88 (Mar 21, 2009)

DaveTheNewbie said:


> god im not near an outdoor harvest yet


lol thats true lol


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## spiked1 (Mar 28, 2009)

eza82 said:


> they look fuckin nice bro !  well done keep me posted !
> My blue cheese , Uk cheese, Lemon skunk, AMS are popped and going strong !
> I am going to harvest my outdoors NEXT WEEK !! --- YIPPEEEEE!!
> 
> Guessing 5-6 Pound..... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Small update, 
these are the plants I sprayed with La Femme at the start of 12/12 after reading that you did it to your freak eza.
Anyway, pics taken this morning at 53 days after I switched to 12/12, not from first flowers appearing.
I will most likely harvest in 2 or 3 weeks.


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## born2killspam (Mar 28, 2009)

They do look nice, but what are your temps at? They look a bit warm.. Nothing to worry about, but if you're OCD then thats what you should be obsessing about..


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## spiked1 (Mar 28, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> They do look nice, but what are your temps at? They look a bit warm.. Nothing to worry about, but if you're OCD then thats what you should be obsessing about..


My exhaust fan for the cool tubes burnt out last weekend and it was like a sauna in there, luckily I looked in on them last monday morning before work, I was an hour late that day adter trying to fix it.
I have another on order which will arrive tommorrow.
In the mean time I put my intake fan into the exhaust so it's only been passive intake for the last week.
I put some more fans inside the tent but it's still too warm in there.
You can see the edges of the leaves cupping.
It would have been much worse if the weather was hotter, I'm in QLD so it's still warm weather.
What's OCD?


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## born2killspam (Mar 28, 2009)

Thats a perfect explanation.. OCD = Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.. A great disability to be afflicted with if you wanna grow chronic..


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## spiked1 (Mar 28, 2009)

born2killspam said:


> Thats a perfect explanation.. OCD = Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.. A great disability to be afflicted with if you wanna grow chronic..


Ahh, no I dont have OCD but there are times I wish I did.
I get slack sometimes and only put my head in the tent every few days to water them, especially when I'm busy at work.
When I first started growing, and for quite a few years after that I could sit there for hours every day watching them.
I guess the novelty wears off.


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## born2killspam (Mar 28, 2009)

In know that feeling.. Sucks when it starts feeling like work huh?


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## Drio (Apr 27, 2009)

Im experimenting with Coconut Milk atm.

Ill post if i see any changes 

I have 2 control groups >:<


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## eza82 (Dec 24, 2009)

WTF coconut milk... are you kidding ??? wher you hear about that ?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gday everyone Im back.... and have got plenty of to share !

Give me a bit ill update where im at and how things have been traveling.

Alot of the work here is the only reason we grow the way we do !

Merry Christmas & Happy NY !

Hope to answer some questions and hear from old faces !

EZ


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## fatman7574 (Dec 25, 2009)

While usage of large administrations of hormones in ornamental plants is one thing we are growing plants that will be smoked not just looked at. When these hormones are most often not even considered aceeptable by the USDA or USFDA why would they be considered acceptable for illicit plants intended to be smoked?


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## eza82 (Dec 25, 2009)

Read again, all HORMONES are naturally produced by the plant anyway.
PGR`s are synthetic and act the same as hormones, NIETHER of which is Going to effect the chemical breakdown of your end product.

Provided you Flush, and grow properly.
& please give examples ! Thanx
EZ


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## fatman7574 (Dec 26, 2009)

Chemist and scientists have for decades claimed their lab made concoctions are as safe as natures own. Industry and agricultur has jumped on the and wagon as quickly as law alowed and used the man produces chemical mixes that promised to do as nature f does only at higher rates or by doing it on demand. Mankind has always bore the price and science has always turned around and just said Ooops. Sorry and created some new chemical concoction that later turns out to be just as bad. 

Know I think I will let nature handle things.

It is not worth getting a liitle higher at a little less possible cost of my children being born without arms or without ears or with mermaid legs, or even my testicles dissaperaing. My pot is already produced after expenses at 1/30 of the retail street price. It is 20 times or more potent then the pot sold in the 60's. I am happy without taking the many chances that using chemaicals unlicensed for use on food crops present.


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## eza82 (Dec 26, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> Chemist and scientists have for decades claimed their lab made concoctions are as safe as natures own. Industry and agricultur has jumped on the and wagon as quickly as law alowed and used the man produces chemical mixes that promised to do as nature f does only at higher rates or by doing it on demand. Mankind has always bore the price and science has always turned around and just said Ooops. Sorry and created some new chemical concoction that later turns out to be just as bad.
> 
> Know I think I will let nature handle things.
> 
> It is not worth getting a liitle higher at a little less possible cost of my children being born without arms or without ears or with mermaid legs, or even my testicles dissaperaing. My pot is already produced after expenses at 1/30 of the retail street price. It is 20 times or more potent then the pot sold in the 60's. I am happy without taking the many chances that using chemaicals unlicensed for use on food crops present.


Each to there own, i get fantastic results. 
I have done a degree in Horticulture and about 10yr of growing on commercial a level, and have to COMPLETELY disagree.
Unless you have fact, dont bother waffling IMO.


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## fatman7574 (Dec 26, 2009)

All you have shown so far is that you are quite capable of plagerism. I highly doubt you have a degree in anything yet alone horticulture sciences. Last time someone said they had a degree in Horticulture he turned out to merely have paid the fee to take a online test to receive a certificate saying he was a certified hortici ulyurilist. He then stated he even got a certificate as a arborist. I imagine as nothing you posted apperaed to be written by you but just copied and pasted you are merely at most one of the same. I h am sure you are happy wot rking as a drone in a small green house some wahere pulling weeds and sweeping floors. So what. Find me a posted USDA pproval for the use on above ground grown food products of the hormones etc you tout. Using something on experimental plots and on ornamental plants does makethem sfae for use on a smakeableproducts. If it can,t be used on food who would want to smoke it. Do you work in a greenhouse growing and selling ornamentals by chance?

As fr as waffling. yiu if posseing a degree in any thing ought to know that slang is not universal. I am not a child so I have no idea what waffling means. If your talking about dontt ramble. Hell you copied and pasted pages of uselesss banter as if it was it useful scientific data. What good is dta on hormones only usable on ornamental flowers, house plnats bushs and trees. Presnt some dat data on on hot rmones usable on food and that are accepted by the USDA or USFDA aprroved crap. You are a waffler dude.

*People don't do degrees they earn them. You obviously have not earned one.*


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## eza82 (Dec 26, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> All you have shown so far is that you are quite capable of plagerism. I highly doubt you have a degree in anything yet alone horticulture sciences. Last time someone said they had a degree in Horticulture he turned out to merely have paid the fee to take a online test to receive a certificate saying he was a certified hortici ulyurilist. He then stated he even got a certificate as a arborist. I imagine as nothing you posted apperaed to be written by you but just copied and pasted you are merely at most one of the same. I h am sure you are happy wot rking as a drone in a small green house some wahere pulling weeds and sweeping floors. So what. Find me a posted USDA pproval for the use on above ground grown food products of the hormones etc you tout. Using something on experimental plots and on ornamental plants does makethem sfae for use on a smakeableproducts. If it can,t be used on food who would want to smoke it. Do you work in a greenhouse growing and selling ornamentals by chance?
> 
> As fr as waffling. yiu if posseing a degree in any thing ought to know that slang is not universal. I am not a child so I have no idea what waffling means. If your talking about dontt ramble. Hell you copied and pasted pages of uselesss banter as if it was it useful scientific data. What good is dta on hormones only usable on ornamental flowers, house plnats bushs and trees. Presnt some dat data on on hot rmones usable on food and that are accepted by the USDA or USFDA aprroved crap. You are a waffler dude.
> 
> *People don't do degrees they earn them. You obviously have not earned one.*


NO i dont work in a green house , i run a chilli farm at the moment. Yes my "certificate" was from Royal Hort college in Modern tech and general Hort, so it was online.
Most of this yes is CUT N PASTED form various sources as referred to.
No i dont claim these are all good for you or MJ, most of the PGR`s come from FOOD CROP study here in Australia ! 

*These are common hormones in all plants* , and merely a collection of data which breaks it down , for anyone to make a decision on there own merits if they feel they want to look this far into it and educated enough!


Sorry if I offended you with the rambling comment, this was built as a resource for me... not an experiment.


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## fatman7574 (Dec 28, 2009)

A farm field worker with a bought online certificate of training. Bet it was hard taking an online test for your "horticulture" certificate with your books open in front of you.


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## jackdirty (Dec 28, 2009)

i see fatman is thread bouncing just causing trouble like a little 17 year old


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## eza82 (Dec 28, 2009)

Fatman, not sure what your problem is ? 

Thanx Jack you get that !


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## jackdirty (Dec 28, 2009)

i thinks he a little grumpythis morning 
he needs one of these


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## eza82 (Dec 28, 2009)

I say yes, if I could give you one I would.


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 28, 2009)

The pot of today is NOT any more potent than it was back in the 60's. That's TV propaganda.

I take a daily dump to get rid of wastes. PGR's are fine if you're worried about health issues. They are tricky regarding plant responses as are synthetic hormones.

You fool around mama nature's natural processes and she will settle accounts.


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## Huh?? (Dec 28, 2009)

fatman7574 said:


> As fr as waffling. yiu if posseing a degree in any thing ought to know that slang is not universal. I am not a child so I have no idea what waffling means. If your talking about dontt ramble. Hell you copied and pasted pages of uselesss banter as if it was it useful scientific data. What good is dta on hormones only usable on ornamental flowers, house plnats bushs and trees. Presnt some dat data on on hot rmones usable on food and that are accepted by the USDA or USFDA aprroved crap. You are a waffler dude.
> 
> *People don't do degrees they earn them. You obviously have not earned one.*


Wow! Wasn't it just earlier today that you were trying to insult my intelligence because I didn't understand that old ass saying that you posted?
https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/286069-switching-between-hps-mh-durring-4.html


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## eza82 (Dec 28, 2009)

FATMAN, I realize it's already too late, but have you ever entertained the idea of thinking before speaking? 
I don&#8217;t know what your problem is FATMAN, but I&#8217;ll bet it&#8217;s hard to pronounce.
The ladies room is down the hall on the left, just leave us civil folk to chat.

EZ


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## eza82 (Dec 29, 2009)

Uncle Ben said:


> The pot of today is NOT any more potent than it was back in the 60's. That's TV propaganda.
> 
> I take a daily dump to get rid of wastes. PGR's are fine if you're worried about health issues. They are tricky regarding plant responses as are synthetic hormones.
> 
> You fool around mama nature's natural processes and she will settle accounts.


 .. I agree, and gday to you Uncle !


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## Uncle Ben (Dec 29, 2009)

eza82 said:


> .. I agree, and gday to you Uncle !


Howdy!

We used to buy Mexican and Colombian pot back in the 60's that was so powerful we nicknamed it "acid grass". It would put you on this very strong, up head high, almost like a 30 minute acid trip but lasting a long time. Slow to build, slow to wane. I was a very seasoned smoker then, and there could be nasty bouts of paranoia that would come with it if you were in a public place and a bit uneasy. 

The best of today was sourced from potent weed like that. Man, do I wish I had saved seeds from the 60's pot.


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## eza82 (Dec 29, 2009)

I concur ! 
The only difference these days that there are a bunch more hybrids, crosses, etc that have been cultivated from original land strains back in the 60`s 
If you can get your hands on good genetics for Skunk #1 - that is closest to an original as any other. And something we have had for yrs !


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## jackdirty (Dec 29, 2009)

- wishes he could get his hands on some skunk#1 and was around in the 60's , but shoot my home state of wa might legalize and regulate herb right out of there liqour stores, i wouldnt buy from them but i would for sure be smoking all the time!


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## jberry (Mar 16, 2010)

Has anyone tried experimenting with their Auxin to Cytokinin ratios? 
For example: Using a high-Auxin/ low-Cytokinin ratio during the first 1-3 weeks of the seedling/cutting stage to promote more root growth, then switching to a high Cytokinin/ low Auxin ratio to promote more foliage... I've just started to look into it a little bit and would like to do some experimenting soon... Here's a little info that I've come across so far:

*Auxins* are natural plant hormones produced in a plant&#8217;s shoot tips and translocate *downwards*. One of its effects is to signal a plant to increase its root growth.

*Cytokinins* are natural plant hormones produced in the root tips and translocate *upwards*. One of its effects is to signal a plant to produce more and larger foliage. 

While most plant growth stimulants make use of high Cytokinin levels to temporarily promote top growth, this does little to improve the roots of the crop, often resulting in an unbalanced plant. 

Think of the relationship between cytokinin and auxin as an antagonistic one, each growth regulator (hormone, if you prefer) trying to overcome the effects of the other.

The relative amounts of these two hormone groups (Auxin and Cytokinin) in tissue culture formula affects the proportional growth of shoots and roots in vitro... *As the ratio is* *increased* (increased auxin or decreases cytokinin), *roots are more likely to be produced, and as it is decreased root growth declines and shoot initiation and growth are promoted. *

This relationships was first recognized by C.O Miller and F. Skoog in the 1950's.


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## fuckstix (May 7, 2010)

Auxins are often used to promote initiation of adventitious roots and are the active ingredient of the commercial preparations used in horticulture to root stem cuttings. They can also be used to promote uniform flowering, to promote fruit set, and to prevent premature fruit drop.
Used in high doses, auxin stimulates the production of ethylene. Excess ethylene can inhibit elongation growth, cause leaves to fall (leaf abscission), and even kill the plant. Some synthetic auxins such as 2,4-D and 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T) have been used as herbicides.
Broad-leaf plants (dicots) such as dandelions are much more susceptible to auxins than narrow-leaf plants (monocots) like grass and cereal crops. These synthetic auxins were the active agents in Agent Orange, a defoliant used extensively by American forces in the Vietnam War.

Scares the shit outta me.


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## jberry (May 7, 2010)

Auxins are also found naturally in any kelp/seaweed product and even produced by natural beneficial bacteria in the soil... Its only bad if you use too much.



fuckstix said:


> Auxins are often used to promote initiation of adventitious roots and are the active ingredient of the commercial preparations used in horticulture to root stem cuttings. They can also be used to promote uniform flowering, to promote fruit set, and to prevent premature fruit drop.
> Used in high doses, auxin stimulates the production of ethylene. Excess ethylene can inhibit elongation growth, cause leaves to fall (leaf abscission), and even kill the plant. Some synthetic auxins such as 2,4-D and 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T) have been used as herbicides.
> Broad-leaf plants (dicots) such as dandelions are much more susceptible to auxins than narrow-leaf plants (monocots) like grass and cereal crops. These synthetic auxins were the active agents in Agent Orange, a defoliant used extensively by American forces in the Vietnam War.
> 
> Scares the shit outta me.


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## BlackFinger (May 7, 2010)

Bravo man I know this was made a while ago, but very intriguing. I am going to have to take some time later to read this. +Rep and subscribed great thread ( I love wells of information  )


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## stupidclown (May 7, 2010)

eza82 said:


> *5. 6-BENZYLAMINOPURINE*
> 6-8wk veg & 4th week of flowring for bud growth
> 
> ok i don't veg for 6-8 weeks more like 4-5 what type of aplication do you think would work?
> ...


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## jberry (May 7, 2010)

stupidclown said:


> eza82 said:
> 
> 
> > *5. 6-BENZYLAMINOPURINE*
> ...


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## eza82 (May 7, 2010)

Sure, Jberry bear with me and I will dig it up, I _will also_ report on some of the combos I have used.

At moment I am moving from OZ to US.... I should be settled in next week or two.

From memory though look on ebay as first port of call. Use the reference for commercial Hort products on first page.


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## stupidclown (May 7, 2010)

jberry said:


> got a link to the $4 gram PGR's?


 no prob
http://www.phytotechlab.com/searchresult.aspx?categoryid=10


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## eza82 (May 7, 2010)

stupidclown said:


> no prob
> http://www.phytotechlab.com/searchresult.aspx?categoryid=10


NICE LINK !!

example:
6-BENZYLAMINOPURINE (BA) Product ID: B800 Storage Temperature: RTCAS Number: 1214-39-7 Description: 
&#9658; BA, _N_6-Benzyladenine 
&#9658; _N_-(phenylmethyl)-1_H_-purin-6-amine 
&#9658; Plant Tissue Culture Tested 
&#9658; Formula: C12H11N5 
&#9658; FW: 225.3 
&#9658; Soluble in KOH 

Risk & Safety: 
&#9658; R:22-36/37/38 
&#9658; S:26-36 

Tariff Code: 2933.59.9550 
*Package Size**Price
($USD)**Qty*1G $4.00 5G $8.00 25G $23.50 100G $75.00 500G $300.00 1KG $480.00


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## stupidclown (May 7, 2010)

yeah i've read a ton on pgr but can't find any dosages for mj guess i'll have to play around with it


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## eza82 (May 8, 2010)

Did you read this thread properly ?


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## stupidclown (May 8, 2010)

for 6-BENZYLAMINOPURINE i have seen from .1 mg to 7.5 mg per liter that is a huge range. i've seen dosages for tomatoes so i'll try that


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## That 5hit (May 8, 2010)

1 no one going to read all of that 
2 if it does the same as co2 then theres no real reason for me to switch 
3 co2 is way cheaper
4 that shit has to be used at the percise amount or it can end up being a waste or even harmfull


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## stupidclown (May 8, 2010)

yeah but add this to your setup with co2 and you will see a diff


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## eza82 (May 9, 2010)

That was the point I suppose, its just another "additive" for anyone to enhance an already successful cupboard. It will NEVER replace carbon obviously !


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## DaveTheNewbie (May 9, 2010)

hi all, dont know how active this thread is, but i was thinking of it after reading a web page for a new brand of nutes.
www.rockhydroponics.com
available in australia
anyway have a read of the nutes and additives, they are chock full of auxins, gibberlins, and cytokins. 

My lady bought some desperately, being out of nutes, and it being sunday. It was the last 2 weeks of vegging. Never in my life have i seen plants that vegged like this. And when the lights turned, zero internode stretch, just massive growth. Anyway now the plants are waaaay to big to be in the cabinet they are in, but hey : they are awesome to look at.

im so impressed that im doing my next grow fully on rock products just to see what happens. when the guy at the shop talks it up (and he did big time) i dont really listen. But when i see it for myself then i pay attention.

for monkeys like myself its nice to have all the goodies pre packaged in the right ratios.


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## jberry (May 9, 2010)

stupidclown said:


> yeah i've read a ton on pgr but can't find any dosages for mj guess i'll have to play around with it


Below is a link that will tell you how to make some of the fancy expensive PGR products you would find at the hydro store... the formulas are basically the same as the products at the hydro shop except you can mix them at home for a fraction of the price... Also the author of these formulas grows the biggest colas I have ever seen, and I'm certain he had mj in mind when suggesting the dosages. There is also a lot of debating about these PGR's being carcinogenic and I know their are cannabis clubs that will refuse to take meds grown with certain PGR products (although people just lie about how it was grown).

Timing and dosage are crucial for success for sure... applying them threw foliar feeds also seem to be the preferred method.

Here is the link >: http://www.integralhydro.com/plantgrowthregulators.html


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## stupidclown (May 9, 2010)

yeah but his mix has this warning 
*Negatives: *​ Possible/probable toxicity issues when used in a short term deciduous crop​ Lessens essential oil production 


so poison and less thc?​


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## jberry (May 9, 2010)

You did a ton of reading on PGR huh? Everyones mix carry the same risks.

At least he is ethical enough to tell the truth about the potential dangers of PGR's... no matter whos mix you use it has the same dangers...Believe it or not a lot of people are using those same ingredients and most of them dont even know it... these are the same ingredients used in Humboldts County's Own Bushmasters, Phosphoload, Dr. Nodes, Superbud, Monsterbud, Dutchmasters and a million other commonly used products from your hydro stores most popular companies... The only difference is, THEY do not put any warning like the one you copy and pasted... they will also use the highest amount they can legally use without having to print it on the label because they dont even want you to know what you are using.

I dont use any of those products but a lot of people do because they do work well.



stupidclown said:


> yeah but his mix has this warning
> *Negatives: *​ Possible/probable toxicity issues when used in a short term deciduous crop​ Lessens essential oil production
> 
> 
> so poison and less thc?​


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## stupidclown (May 9, 2010)

yes but his mix has way more in it than the 6 benzylaminopurine i want to use


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## eza82 (Sep 24, 2010)

so this thread is still getting attention.... anyone picking up on this ?
I have not had time to do much , but now I am growing legally I will for sure add to this !


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## Hypocrisy (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm new to rollitup but not to cultivating. I've spent the last 2 days soaking up the information in this thread. If you are planning any new experiments I'd love to hear about them. 

I'm starting a vertical rockwool slab grow in the next couple of weeks and I'm going to do some experimentation with PGR's. I'm especially interested in the effects of 6 benzylaminopurine.


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## fadahigh (Dec 2, 2010)

the best thing is to try it out. the more research the better


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## klauts (Jan 23, 2011)

hey i've been doing some reading myself on these hormones for a while now and actually stumbled across this thread while doing so. i just ordered some 6-BAP, gibberellic acid and brassinolide should be here within the next couple weeks and im planning on doing experiments with some seedlings. basically my plan is to treat the seedlings with gibberellic acid until they've stretched to about half a foot and then dousing them in a 1500 ppm solution of 6-BAP to stop upward growth and initiate branching two more 300 ppm solutions of 6-BAP will be applied 3 weeks apart from the initial application to further prevent upward growth and promote the thickening of the plants stem. brassinolide will be applied 3 times throughout the growth cycle of the plant at 300ppm concentrations. i'll post pictures as things come along with some controls to show the difference between treated and untreated plants. hoping to get some nice 2 foot tall bushes  also has anyone had any success with la femme?


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## Ace11 (Jan 27, 2011)

I have three plants in the first week of flowering under a 1000 hps and 155,000 lumens. I spent a couple hours reading as much as I could and love the new research. If anyone can instruct me on how to order and apply the hormone(s) critical to the plant during the first week of flowering Id love to run the experiment on my girls and report back to you guys. Thanks!


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## klauts (Jan 31, 2011)

hey you can buy all the hormones on this ebay store(link) for like 5$ per 2 grams of pure chemical. as for applying them they come with directions but its really different for every plant your gonna have to play around a bit to get the right mix so id say just start out using it how either this topic suggests or how the instructions that come with it do, cheers.
P.S. i recieved two samples free with my order from here wich was pretty sweet i got 2 grams of NAA(la femme) and 2 grams of kinetin.


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## klauts (Apr 5, 2011)

just an update on my experiments not much of one but anywhoo... i ended up getting as letter from customs instead of hormones when i placed that order so i tried again but i oly got bap and brassinolide this time. so basically freshly potted clones sprayed with .01 ppm brassinolide and 50ppm BAP showed healthy rapid growth in comparison to untreated plants brassinolide .01 on its on had no noticable effects same with 50 BAP. a concentration of .1 brassinolide caused the leaves to curl and growth to slow in comparison to the controll. 500 BAP caused extreme mutation of the leaves and a complete halt in upward growth resulting in a small bush like thing with more leaves then i can count. 100 BAP caused a perfect topping effect at every node of the plant without slowing upward growth noticeable resulting in a pretty much instant mother for taking more clones off of.. hope this helps some of you sorry the experiments arent to precise i'll post back as i discover more. but currently i would reccomend spraying young plants in there first month with .01 brassinolide and 50 BAP for some incredible growth. then after they get to be about a foot tall dose them with 100 BAP and flower them a week later for some killer tops or to cut clones skip the flowering step and have at er cuts the time damn near in half and leaves the harvest as good as ever.


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## dlively11 (Apr 6, 2011)

To make 1L of phosphoload/superbud all you need is 500ml 99% Iso alcohol, 500ml RO water and .9g Paclobutrazol. I got my Paclobutrazol here http://www.bio-world.com/MoreInfo.asp?ItemCode=714260 

first add .9g of the paclo to the alcohol and shake the shit out of it (it wont disolve in water). Then add the 500ml of RO water and shake it again.
Apply at at 3ml per L of nutrient solution. Store it at room temp or the paclo will fall out of suspension of the alcohol


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## Aston1 (Apr 23, 2011)

*Hi*

I am planning 2-4 weeks veg and flowering outdoor
FIM and short veg (not the best)
Seeds already germinated :

*[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Gigabud
Amnesia Haze
[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Kaya Gold 
S.A.G.E 
[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Monster[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Kushage x2[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Burmese Kush x2[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]White Widow x Big Bud x2
Jack Herer x2
Easy Sativa x6
[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, sans-serif]Critical x6

[/FONT]*Nutrients:

*Canna Terra Vega & Flores *
 *Canna **Rhizotonic*
 *Canna Cannazym
**Canna PK13/14*
 *Hesi Super Vit
**BIO BIZZ TOP MAX*
*Bat Guano (NPK 2-15-1)
CO2 Tablets
*
Hormones:
*
Benzylaminopurine
Brassinolide
Triacontanol
Naphthalene Acetic Acid
Gibberellic Acid
Indole Acetic Acid
Fulvic Acid*

My question
How to use these hormones with nutrients ?


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## Guile (Jan 3, 2012)

eza82 said:


> *Another big bonus. If you spray MJ with 300ppm at the end of the 4th week of flowring there is a dramatic increase in bud growth. Combined with the earlier spraying of Brassinlide , the end result is outstanding in terms of quality and yield.*


What is the advantage of Brassinlide over Gibberellic Acid? From what I understand, beyond stem elongation and cell division GA also encourages budding.. 

What concentration of BRASSINOLIDE was used in this stody? The only mention I saw in that parigraph was 0.00001 which if offered in anything resembling pure from would have to be mixed on the scale of thousands of gallons to be accurate with common measuring devices.


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## Mr.Perfectionist (Apr 17, 2012)

you inspired me to dive into micro biology and organic chemistry. i really think this will shape how i grow and learn to the fullest extent. i want to learn so much more! This thread is a great reference. Id love to help research more.


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## polyarcturus (Apr 17, 2012)

dlively11 said:


> To make 1L of phosphoload/superbud all you need is 500ml 99% Iso alcohol, 500ml RO water and .9g Paclobutrazol. I got my Paclobutrazol here http://www.bio-world.com/MoreInfo.asp?ItemCode=714260
> 
> first add .9g of the paclo to the alcohol and shake the shit out of it (it wont disolve in water). Then add the 500ml of RO water and shake it again.
> Apply at at 3ml per L of nutrient solution. Store it at room temp or the paclo will fall out of suspension of the alcohol


im really glad to hear you have got good orders from them i am nearby there office and plan of making a visit soon but i have been in email contact with them so far they seem really legit.

they told me that they would sell 6-BAP


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## born2killspam (Apr 17, 2012)

There was a product called Paclo like 20+ years ago when I was young that was just a fertilizer additive that was supposed to help garden plants resist harsh late season weather where we lived.. One guy brought back a bunch of it one time, and passed it around.. And it did seem to work.. I imagine it can benefit in other ways too.. Normally I shun gimmicks, but if that is what I think it is, then I've seen great results on alot of plants that aren't cannabis planted in outdoor gardens in a region that often gets bad frost in mid-late August..


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## slump (Apr 18, 2012)

2nd thread I've read tonight about Paclobutrazol. Is the RIU community not aware that this stuff is bad? Or do we just not care...I'm on board for either one.

http://www.marijuanagrowershq.com/plant-growth-regulators-poison-marijuana/

Grow Safe.


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## born2killspam (Apr 18, 2012)

Bad why?? Enlighten me with data, or atleast anecdotal evidence equivalent to mine..


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## polyarcturus (Apr 18, 2012)

high concentration of most plant hormones are toxic and when smoke can become even more so. but thats just to let you know. but if you know what your doing and stop treating 2-3 weeks b4 harvest(as plant hormones are movable substances in the plant....) clean water and a flush or 2 will clear it out mostly. but this is in no way organic, but the best weed isnt going to be 100% oranic is gonna be the best mixture of the 2 (synthetic and organic)


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## cues (Apr 18, 2012)

What's the difference? Synthetic (hydro) is commonly known as providing nutes through water. Organics is commonly known as providing them through dirt. Other than that they are the same. Same nutrients, just suspended in a different environment.
Plant hormones (phytohormones) are largely movable but I suspect, judging from your previous posts that you are confusing them with nutrients, of which some are highly movable (Nitrogen for example) and some far less so (calcium for example)
Poly, I don't wish to knock you but only wish to help you to the next level.


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## born2killspam (Apr 18, 2012)

Umm no.. Organic in this sense means that everything added must be derived naturally from natural sources.. eg compost, manure, fish, seaweed etc.. If you add something like miracle grow, or any other synthetic chemical product then you are not growing organically..


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## polyarcturus (Apr 18, 2012)

cues said:


> What's the difference? Synthetic (hydro) is commonly known as providing nutes through water. Organics is commonly known as providing them through dirt. Other than that they are the same. Same nutrients, just suspended in a different environment.
> Plant hormones (phytohormones) are largely movable but I suspect, judging from your previous posts that you are confusing them with nutrients, of which some are highly movable (Nitrogen for example) and some far less so (calcium for example)
> Poly, I don't wish to knock you but only wish to help you to the next level.


well the major difference between organic growing and synthetic growing the the way nutrients are formed in organic growing nutrients are obtained thru other organisms by products in addition the natural already available forms. in synthetics we provide the nutrients in a form that can be directly used by the plants bypassing the need for organisms.

as for hormones being moveable you will find they are very mobile and they work in ways very similar to nutrients. some hormones are locale, but most are moveable. either created in the roots and transferred to the leaves and upper growth, or created in the leaves and upper growth and transferred to the roots.

another thing i though photo hoormone where a local hormone that didnt move?


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## slump (Apr 18, 2012)

born2killspam said:


> Bad why?? Enlighten me with data, or atleast anecdotal evidence equivalent to mine..



Enlightening link: http://www.marijuanagrowershq.com/plant-growth-regulators-poison-marijuana/

Grow Safe!


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## polyarcturus (Apr 18, 2012)

slump said:


> Enlightening link: http://www.marijuanagrowershq.com/plant-growth-regulators-poison-marijuana/
> 
> Grow Safe!


as good of a read as that was, they really didn't answer any questions, they say it MAY be a carcinogen but the testing has not been done. so in other words the testing hasn't been done. without those results from a lab somewhere we will probably never know how dangerous or safe they are.


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## Gore (Apr 18, 2012)

When my Grandparents were of child bearing age it was socially acceptable for pregnant women to smoke tobacco, and even drink to some degree. It was understood that smoking was bad for you, despite what the tobacco company said at the time. People knew it was bad but they didn't understand how bad. I can't help but wonder if radiation emissions from cell phones might be the second hand smoke of my generation. My point is; do you need the government to tell you it's harmful before you stop doing it? It's this soggy minded logic that fuels much of the liberal agenda, costs tax payers millions and leads to implementation of some of the most ridiculous laws. 

@ *polyarcturus*

The USDA, EPA and FDA have decided this chemical and others like it are dangerous to humans, this has lead to a ban of it's use in commercial agriculture. Really? you require more 'proof' that it's bad? This is exactly the type foolishness that leads to the requirement of frivolous unnecessary legislation. When did people become so stupid that we needed laws to prevent them from killing themselves?

In an earlier version of my article I took a stronger stance in regard the further testing being required by the EPA but my editor suggested I refrain. Perhaps here i will share this idea; There is further testing required to determine the exact impact that PGRs have on combusted consumables. Testing of this type is expensive, who in the hell do you imagine wants to pay for this? I assure you that it will not be the tobacco company's. So, because I am not a chemist I will adhere to the guidelines established for consumable food crops and apply them, where logical to marijuana as well. One commonly over looked mistake made by growers is application of products indicating safety in spray up to the day of harvest. Marijuana unlike tomatoes or cucumbers can not be washed prior to consumption. These products, seemingly harmless, products even from SAFER brand will leave potentialy dangerous residue on your medicine.

I'm excited that marijuana testing facility's like steep hill and SC labs exist, they didn't always. We used to grow in the stone age, this industry has come so far, lets make use of the wealth of information that is so readily available to us. The truth is, these PGRs are not a secret weight boosting agent. They can make marijuana plants do some very irregular things that in some cases can prove advantageous to the grower, but at what cost? They will not increase THC or CBD content, they will not speed maturation. The just aren't worth gambling your or someone else health on.

I encourage readers to study this page;
http://www.integralhydro.com/flowerdragon.html
I sourced some information from it.


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## polyarcturus (Apr 18, 2012)

tooo many words for me to write to really get started in on this i just erased likr 5 paragraphs of shit im sure you unbderstand. but i agree with you about 90%, im just playing devils advocate. i personally would smoke hormone treated weed if i thought they(the grower) had reduced the health risk from smoking it as much as possible.


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## Gore (Apr 18, 2012)

polyarcturus said:


> tooo many words for me to write to really get started in on this i just erased likr 5 paragraphs of shit im sure you unbderstand. but i agree with you about 90%, im just playing devils advocate. i personally would smoke hormone treated weed if i thought they(the grower) had reduced the health risk from smoking it as much as possible.


I'm sorry but I can't understand what your saying in the last line. Could you please explain in greater detail?


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## born2killspam (Apr 18, 2012)

That link says there is no evidence that they are bad.. Beef is a suspected carcinogen..


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## polyarcturus (Apr 19, 2012)

Gore said:


> I'm sorry but I can't understand what your saying in the last line. Could you please explain in greater detail?


given grower had knowledge of the way the chemical worked, used proper timing to ensure its decayed by the time of consumption, or if it can be flushed out of the plans system ect.


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## shaggyballs (Oct 27, 2013)

reviving a good thread


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## jadashi (Oct 28, 2013)

Hey... Curious about the Plant Starter Vs La Femne... i cant really find the op ,eza's follow up...

Can it be used as a substitute for Le Femme and in what folair feed strengh?

I have always used Sensa spray as a saftey addition but timing active ingredients for general vigor and fruit is facinating stuff...


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## waterdawg (Nov 15, 2013)

I posted on the hydro section last week with no responses re the use of Kinetin. I just added it to my res and was wondering if anyone had used it and what the results were? Unfortunantly I will be unable to do a real comparison as I have only two trays running and two strains. Also I screwed up the schedule and lighting (forgot to switch dimmer to 100% for weeks) and discovered this day after I added the stuff.


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## ethabhae (May 31, 2015)

hey, i started to use
Naphthalene Acetamide and Naphthalene Acetic Acid solution and i took my random plants to dark room at first time.
i used the hormones for quick flowering. i miss smoking.... 

*Grow log:* little little into the middle
*Strain:* Unknown
*Vegetative*

*Day 18*


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## Shock168 (Aug 1, 2021)

Máte někdo pozitivní zkušenost s PGR? Škoda, že je tady mrtvý.


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