# Effects of defoliation during flowering



## Harvest76 (May 23, 2020)

Couldn't find this answer anywhere, so pardon if I am rehashing a topic, but I'm curious what effect, if any, defoliation during flowering has on the time for ripening. I have a couple strains that arent ready but should be, and I wonder if my 2 defoliations at 1 week and 4 weeks pushed back their harvest timeframes. No other issues to speak of. Plants are happy and healthy and have been since birth. See pic from week 6.


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## Hobbes (May 23, 2020)

.

I defoliate at days 1 and 21 of flower, I haven't noticed any delay in harvest.

.


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## Harvest76 (May 23, 2020)

Hobbes said:


> .
> 
> I defoliate at days 1 and 21 of flower, I haven't noticed any delay in harvest.
> 
> .


Thanks. Mind if I ask why 1 and 21 vs some other schedule? Not questioning it, just curious why others do it differently. I do 21 and 42.


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## Harvest76 (May 23, 2020)

Harvest76 said:


> Thanks. Mind if I ask why 1 and 21 vs some other schedule? Not questioning it, just curious why others do it differently. I do 21 and 42.


Ugh. 1 week and 4 weeks. Sorry. Stoned.


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## Hobbes (May 23, 2020)

.

The start of flower (day 1) to open up all the bud sites and for air flow, then again at day 21 as stretch is done.

At day 21 I also lower a scrog screen over the garden and fit the colas up through the netting, it would be impossible without defoliating.

.


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## Harvest76 (May 23, 2020)

Hobbes said:


> .
> 
> The start of flower (day 1) to open up all the bud sites and for air flow, then again at day 21 as stretch is done.
> 
> ...


Ah, that makes sense. I do a heavy defoliation mid/late veg, so I like to give them some time in flower to adjust to the new light cycle before doing it again. On really long flowering strains, I will wait until week 3 and 6. This one is supposed to be a 7-8 week flower, and 7 weeks is monday. They are definitely maturing, but I was expecting a bit more signaling by this point. What's left of the leaves are still healthy and green, and trichs are just barely starting to cloud. Maybe in another week they will be more pronounced.


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## TevinJonson (May 25, 2020)

Harvest76 said:


> Couldn't find this answer anywhere, so pardon if I am rehashing a topic, but I'm curious what effect, if any, defoliation during flowering has on the time for ripening. I have a couple strains that arent ready but should be, and I wonder if my 2 defoliations at 1 week and 4 weeks pushed back their harvest timeframes. No other issues to speak of. Plants are happy and healthy and have been since birth. See pic from week 6.


Yeah I kinda defoliat as I go and as needed I've noticed that it makes the lower shaded bud sights harder and larger since your exposing them to more light


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## LinguaPeel (May 25, 2020)

TevinJonson said:


> I've noticed that it makes the lower shaded bud sights harder and larger since your exposing them to more light


I thought that was a myth. Not yet I guess


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## TevinJonson (May 25, 2020)

LinguaPeel said:


> I thought that was a myth. Not yet I guess


No its easy to try for your self I have seen a difference and will continue to do


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## Samwell Seed Well (May 25, 2020)

Its not exposing them to more light per say, but exposing lower cannopy to light, thus increasing its share of growth hormones. Just like your skin inturn makes vitimin D when in light, plants growth hormones and amino acids spot react to light points 


This is also why more points of light i.e. more fixtures or diodes increases yield. Think 2 600W DE HPE vs s single 1k, the two 600 per watt should create more buds.


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## Apalchen (May 28, 2020)

I defoliate somewhere between day 14-21. If I'm trying to control stretch or the canopy is just too full I like to go around day 14. But if I'm not too crowded I wait til day 21 because it seems like they don't grow back in as quick and leaves those bud sites exposed longer.

I've never had plants finish slower from it and it def helps with lower bud production and in turn overall yield.


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## Dabbie McDoob (Jun 2, 2020)

I suggest Week 1 Day 1 flower and when the plants visibly are finished elongation at Week 3-4.
Then don't touch.

I further suggest using bamboo to manipulate your canopy. Sometimes a little TLC and some plant ties can really open it up to allow the lower buds to ripen.


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## Oakiey (Jun 2, 2020)

I defoliated as a teeny bopper mostly to have something to smoke....


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## Harvest76 (Jun 2, 2020)

Oakiey said:


> I defoliated as a teeny bopper mostly to have something to smoke....


You were smoking fan leaves?


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## Oakiey (Jun 2, 2020)

You know back then growing the Mexican bag seeds, leaves is about all you got...

About the time they started flowering they froze to death


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## Harvest76 (Jun 3, 2020)

Oakiey said:


> You know back then growing the Mexican bag seeds, leaves is about all you got...
> 
> About the time they started flowering they froze to death


No judgment. When I think back to what I smoked, hell even what I GREW and shared with friends, I'm ashamed.


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## BigDaddyStrain (Jun 3, 2020)

ive defoliated weekly without counting times and near the suggest harvest week i was like theres no way it will be ready and it was true it took 1-2 week more to get ready so i will never do this again throughout the whole flowering stage , only in the first week and in the middle


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## Harvest76 (Jun 3, 2020)

Dabbie McDoob said:


> I suggest Week 1 Day 1 flower and when the plants visibly are finished elongation at Week 3-4.
> Then don't touch.
> 
> I further suggest using bamboo to manipulate your canopy. Sometimes a little TLC and some plant ties can really open it up to allow the lower buds to ripen.


Oh believe me, these girls are well trained. LST and HST in veg, and netted for flowering. I'm really interested in trying mainlining on a future run. Maybe just experiment with one tree and see how I do.


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## Harvest76 (Jun 3, 2020)

BigDaddyStrain said:


> ive defoliated weekly without counting times and near the suggest harvest week i was like theres no way it will be ready and it was true it took 1-2 week more to get ready so i will never do this again throughout the whole flowering stage , only in the first week and in the middle


I think it's also strain dependent in part. Some love it, some hate it.


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## Dabbie McDoob (Jun 4, 2020)

Harvest76 said:


> Oh believe me, these girls are well trained. LST and HST in veg, and netted for flowering. I'm really interested in trying mainlining on a future run. Maybe just experiment with one tree and see how I do.


Harvest76, 

I have mainlined for a few years, and have since switched back to LST.
It's faster and doesn't require constant plant recovery.
The canopy uniformity and yield I suppose made it say 15% more advantageous in the flower phase once harvested.
However, given the extra work, electricity etc, I can save 3 weeks easy just by manipulating via LST.

I suggest trying it though, because it really does improve your understanding of the plants development.

Happy Growing!


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## Samwell Seed Well (Jun 4, 2020)

Can we all agree to call it snap fan, i really like the feeling when the leaf snaps off...snap fan


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## Harvest76 (Jun 4, 2020)

Dabbie McDoob said:


> Harvest76,
> 
> I have mainlined for a few years, and have since switched back to LST.
> It's faster and doesn't require constant plant recovery.
> ...


Thanks! I appreciate that input. I like LST, it's simple and non-invasive.


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## NewAgeTech (Jun 4, 2020)

Day before I flip and day 21. Yeh to do a proper side by side with only defol in week 1 vs wk1 and 3. Havnt had any success with removing sugar leaves though , and finishing time won't change, but bud development will. They will finish with smaller buds. I'm starting to think it's really strain dependent. Greengenes strips his back hard but they always come back well developed


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## ghostexperience (Oct 24, 2020)

Apalchen said:


> I defoliate somewhere between day 14-21. If I'm trying to control stretch or the canopy is just too full I like to go around day 14. But if I'm not too crowded I wait til day 21 because it seems like they don't grow back in as quick and leaves those bud sites exposed longer.
> 
> I've never had plants finish slower from it and it def helps with lower bud production and in turn overall yield.


What you see for effects when you defoliate at day 14 of flower? 
I am right now in day 14 and the canopy is over full!! Like a jungel
Plants are super healthy (praying) 
I am worry that it be to much stress to defoliate now.... 
Greetings from Switzerland


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## Apalchen (Oct 24, 2020)

ghostexperience said:


> What you see for effects when you defoliate at day 14 of flower?
> I am right now in day 14 and the canopy is over full!! Like a jungel
> Plants are super healthy (praying)
> I am worry that it be to much stress to defoliate now....
> Greetings from Switzerland


If you can upload a picture, but yes I have defoliated that early before. Depends on how overgrown it is but I'd try to only take part of them.


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## ghostexperience (Oct 24, 2020)

Apalchen said:


> If you can upload a picture, but yes I have defoliated that early before. Depends on how overgrown it is but I'd try to only take part of them.


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## NewAgeTech (Oct 25, 2020)

Well at this stage your getting a fair bit of light down to those leaves so I personally would leave them until they get more shaded then you know they won't be contributing anything to the plant but rather just sinking nutrients into it. I've played around with defol at different stages and lately my best results have been no defol, just taking big hand size fan leafs off. Pulling leaves off stunted the growth and whilst it finished within the correct time frame the bud development was sub par compared to the non defol group. It also depends how crazy you let it grow if you scrog. If you have colas going up right next to each other and hundreds of them the leaves will literally cover the whole plant and you will only see the tops and buds when they start to develop will be banging against each other causing humidity spikes, mold and sticking to each other. If you cut away the thinner straggling ones to free up some of the internal space in the canopy the air within helps the leaves transpire and the system works better overall giving you some very nice and consistent bud development true to the genetics. My 2c


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## Skitz1985 (Nov 6, 2020)

I had a mate come round toward the end of my first grow and he said straight away I plucked too many fan leaves (thought I was doing the righty for light penetration) and he suggested taking only the really intrusive leaves that are blocking heaps of light in veg then 1x defoliation in the first week of flower and no more than 20% so will have a crack like that this time and see how we go


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## smokinrav (Nov 6, 2020)

I am amused when people think they know more about plants than evolution.
Read up on the inverse square law. It is counterintuitive to remove the engines of your plant (fan leaves) to expose smaller leaves further away from the light. Here, l'll help

*Inverse Square Law* basically states that the farther away an *indoor grow* light source is, the less effect it has on an object, and this formula is geometrical in its diminishing effect. As an example, a quality *indoor grow* light that is positioned five feet above the plant canopy is 50% less powerful at that height.

Or read this for more in depth information 









Inverse Square Law for Light and Hydroponics | Epic Gardening


Learn why the inverse square law for light is so important in hydroponics and any type of indoor urban gardening. Without it you'll be lost!




www.epicgardening.com


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## TintEastwood (Nov 6, 2020)

Defoliation of cannabis - What you should know


Grow store SantYerbasi. Cannabis seeds for sale. Fertilizers for growth, grow tents and lighting kits.




www.santyerbasi.com


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## smokinrav (Nov 6, 2020)

smokinrav said:


> I am amused when people think they know more about plants than evolution.


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## Harvest76 (Nov 6, 2020)

smokinrav said:


> I am amused when people think they know more about plants than evolution.
> Read up on the inverse square law. It is counterintuitive to remove the engines of your plant (fan leaves) to expose smaller leaves further away from the light. Here, l'll help
> 
> *Inverse Square Law* basically states that the farther away an *indoor grow* light source is, the less effect it has on an object, and this formula is geometrical in its diminishing effect. As an example, a quality *indoor grow* light that is positioned five feet above the plant canopy is 50% less powerful at that height.
> ...


Growing outdoors under natural light is a different animal. Defoliation is not as necessary. As well, defoliation also allows better airflow through the canopy. In general, there is plenty of scientific and anecdotal evidence that defoliation of varying amounts can be beneficial to an indoor grow. Massive indoor commercial operations wouldnt do it if it was harmful to their bottom line.


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## Aero Grow (Nov 6, 2020)

Dabbie McDoob said:


> Harvest76,
> 
> I have mainlined for a few years, and have since switched back to LST.
> It's faster and doesn't require constant plant recovery.
> ...


That's a beautiful picture. Been wanting to try this for a while now


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## MICHI-CAN (Nov 6, 2020)

I hate the debate. And I'm outcast for my methods. I lollipop indoors and remain removing mature leaves until the last week or two. It adds a week or 2 to finish, But buds are dense and hand grenade size. 

Outdoor I practice heavy defol until week 5 or 6 of flower. No science to back it up. Just buds and nature combating depredation for eons. 

Choose your method by seeing what works best for you. Most issues are improper plant health. Not defol or stress related. Wish more people understood this. Peace and bigger buds.


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## Samwell Seed Well (Nov 6, 2020)

smokinrav said:


> I am amused when people think they know more about plants than evolution.
> Read up on the inverse square law. It is counterintuitive to remove the engines of your plant (fan leaves) to expose smaller leaves further away from the light. Here, l'll help
> 
> *Inverse Square Law* basically states that the farther away an *indoor grow* light source is, the less effect it has on an object, and this formula is geometrical in its diminishing effect. As an example, a quality *indoor grow* light that is positioned five feet above the plant canopy is 50% less powerful at that height.
> ...



Omg, this is next level funny...


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## Samwell Seed Well (Nov 6, 2020)

When you remove a fan leaf, which on an evolutionary theme happens often and the plant has entire biological systems designed to react to which do zero harm when understood, (big breath) your plant goes through an entire process in which its grows more , gasp, leaves...

This process is, within optimal conditions, an automatic response by your plant because its also an idoit. Within this process your plant creates growth hormones that benefit and can work synergistically with certian growth periods in flower.

Timing your defoilation to illicit a specific resposne by your plant is why defoilation works to increase yeild and terpene profile. 

Lazy fucks its LST

Long story shorter , you never have to defoilated as long as your happy with getting less


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## MICHI-CAN (Nov 6, 2020)

Samwell Seed Well said:


> When you remove a fan leaf, which on an evolutionary theme happens often and the plant has entire biological systems designed to react to which do zero harm when understood, (big breath) your plant goes through an entire process in which its grows more , gasp, leaves...
> 
> This process is, within optimal conditions, an automatic response by your plant because its also an idoit. Within this process your plant creates growth hormones that benefit and can work synergistically with cetian growth periods in flower.
> 
> ...


A bit yuppie but correct. There is a method to the insanity. Why I pinch and not cut. LOL.


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## Samwell Seed Well (Nov 6, 2020)

Stupid responses will get meet with hostilty...i made it as easy to understand as possible...i am not a botanist


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## Samwell Seed Well (Nov 6, 2020)

MICHI-CAN said:


> A bit yuppie but correct. There is a method to the insanity. Why I pinch and not cut. LOL.


 Pinching also LST....tbeirs not different LST only diffetent effects


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## MICHI-CAN (Nov 6, 2020)

Samwell Seed Well said:


> Stupid responses will get meet with hostilty...i made it as easy to understand as possible...i am not a botanist


I totally agree. No offense. 
Although a stupid response may be a question in earnest. Our basics are advanced bio chemistry and plant biology to many. KISS. 

Trying to maintain comprehension levels for all interested. 

The more successful growers.....The soon it is truly legal.


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## Samwell Seed Well (Nov 6, 2020)

MICHI-CAN said:


> I totally agree. No offense.
> Although a stupid response may be a question in earnest. Our basics are advanced bio chemistry and plant biology to many. KISS.
> 
> Trying to maintain comprehension levels for all interested.
> ...


Lol, more posturing then loaded threats but the shit I read here

Your dead right. KISS and method is design and so is outcome. So your are never doing X method. You are working toward a desired effect/outcome. 

Paint by numbers crowd will always be happy but real heads are rarely satisfied


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## MICHI-CAN (Nov 6, 2020)

Samwell Seed Well said:


> Lol, more posturing then loaded threats but the shit I read here
> 
> Your dead right. KISS and method is design and so is outcome. So your are never doing X method. You are working toward a desired effect/outcome.
> 
> Paint by numbers crowd will always be happy but real heads are rarely satisfied


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## Samwell Seed Well (Nov 6, 2020)

I need to do a LST tutorial....this is the torture i did to the dutch treat at work today. 6 more weeks of of fuck that table, fuck that branch...wtf fuck..then omg


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## Samwell Seed Well (Nov 6, 2020)

Gonna get 2 grams a watt on these ...easy Co2..shitty blurple leds


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## MICHI-CAN (Nov 6, 2020)

Samwell Seed Well said:


> I need to do a LST tutorial....this is the torture i did to the dutch treat at work today. 6 more weeks of of fuck that table, fuck that branch...wtf fuck..then omg


I did stealth 3' foot tall shrubs for years. LST is great. And not hard if you have a bit of tactile perception and some basic knowledge.


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## smokinrav (Nov 6, 2020)

Samwell Seed Well said:


> I need to do a LST tutorial....this is the torture i did to the dutch treat at work today. 6 more weeks of of fuck that table, fuck that branch...wtf fuck..then omg


Like this one I wrote on icmag 15 years ago?









LST training in detail; why bushes are better


(Bear with me, this thread may take all day to finish since most of it's posts have to be approved before they show) (Lightning took out my internet. Posting from my phone. I'll finish when I can :sigh: ) Bushes are ideal plants to grow for anyone who has a small HID flower light ( 400...




www.thcfarmer.com


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## Samwell Seed Well (Nov 6, 2020)

MICHI-CAN said:


> I did stealth 3' foot tall shrubs for years. LST is great. And not hard if you have a bit of tactile perception and some basic knowledge. View attachment 4735793


 That's great. Love the dedication their.


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## Samwell Seed Well (Nov 6, 2020)

smokinrav said:


> Like this one I wrote on icmag 15 years ago?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Thats cheating, how am I supposed to feel my self-imposed sense of greatness if you link ICmag every time a discussion pops up


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## MICHI-CAN (Nov 6, 2020)

Samwell Seed Well said:


> That's great. Love the dedication their.


Desperation. 6 months in the front living room picture window watching snow. Had to mke look like a house plant. LOl.


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## smokinrav (Nov 6, 2020)

Sadly, the thread I wrote as Compassionate Carl on icmag doesn't exist anymore after they purged old pics and screen names.


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## MICHI-CAN (Nov 6, 2020)

Here is my mess after a greenhouse mid row and emergency measures to control humidity and air flow.


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## smokinrav (Nov 6, 2020)

I might trim those girls down lol


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## MICHI-CAN (Nov 6, 2020)

smokinrav said:


> I might trim those girls down lol


I did twice after this. First ziplock bag grow outdoors. OOPs.


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## Samwell Seed Well (Nov 7, 2020)

MICHI-CAN said:


> I did twice after this. First ziplock bag grow outdoors. OOPs. View attachment 4735876


Naked plants really gets my dick hard


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