# 4x4 Tent - Blue Hash and A-Train



## smokingrubber (Nov 18, 2009)

Good Morning 

My first grow journal. Welcome everyone. A little background; This is my third op. The first was potted dirt plants in a varment infested garage. The critters got more of it than I did. My second op is still going at my friend's house. That's a home-made ebb & flow setup. THIS is my first serious grow using all the knowledge I've gained through experience and community (RIU). I really want to do this right.

I've been slowly purchasing equipment and supplies over the last month. This shit is expensive! I've got:

4'9 x 4'9 GrowLab Tent
Stealth RO200 Water Filter
Ebb & Gro 12 System by C.A.P.
1000watt MH/HPS Lamp
Cool Sun 6" Hood
8" Vortex Fan
24/7 Nutrient Monitor

3 "Blue Hash" Seeds by Dinafem
3 "A-Train" Seeds by TH Seeds
1 "LA Woman"
1 "Lemon Skunk"

I will get 4 "OG Kush" clones this week to fill out my 12 pot system.

Here are some pics

Last week I germinated 11 seeds (3 croaked on me)







After 5 days I took the dome off.







Had to assemble the pot system. It was easier to do in the living room.







Had to Clean out the garage






And set up the tent. It's pretty big!







Last night I transfered all of the seedlings into larger rockwool. They are coming along nicely.







This weekend I'm going to finsih wiring the power, set up the RO system, and mount the fans and filter. Then I'll stick everything in the tent and run it 18-6 for a month or so.

There is a lot of work to be done still. I'm just getting started. My sister is coming to town next week so I've got to have everything tucked away and running on auto. With the holidays coming it will be hard to buy a bunch more equipment, but I still plan to purchase a Sentinal system and a Co2 setup. I can wait a month on that though.

Welcome to my grow.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 18, 2009)

Unfortunately I purchased a puny T5. I saw a "clone system" that had a single 2ft T5 floro mounted in the hood. I assumed that it was a single to avoid over-zapping the babies. So I purchased a 2ft 2-bulb T5 for my seedlings. That was almost $100 and I didn't want to spend $300 on a lamp I'll only use for a couple weeks every cycle. 

So for the first week I kept the seedling under the dome, with the T5 on top. The dome is about 8" tall so the light was a little far away. The baby girls all stretched a little more than I would like. They were also on 24-0 light for the first week. They are on 18-6 for the last 3 days.


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## NewGrowth (Nov 18, 2009)

looking good man, I'm in!


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## smokingrubber (Nov 19, 2009)

I'm starting with Technaflora BC nutrients http://www.technaflora.com/products.php?product=18

So far so good, but I'm still in pre-veg. Has anyone used this product or know anything about what I should expect? For my other grows I've used Ionic Nutrients and I was very pleased, but these nutrients came with the EBB-12. Should I phase them out and go back to Ionic or should I buy more BC? What do you guys think?


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## Bob Smith (Nov 19, 2009)

You know I'm subbed 

Looking good man - you had to one up me on the filter and get the 200, didn't you?

Just make sure not to leave it on all night and you'll be fine - even as un-handy as I am, installation's a snap.

I'll be watching anxiously


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## smokingrubber (Nov 19, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> You know I'm subbed
> 
> Looking good man - you had to one up me on the filter and get the 200, didn't you?
> 
> ...


Glad to have you. I'll definately need your input.

That's funny because my friend has the Stealth-100, but I THOUGHT he had the 200. So I bought the 200 not wanting a slower piss-dribble than he produces. Now I can only imagine the catastophe I'll create the first time I leave it on over night. 

Luckily, I purchased a float valve I'll mount inside the 55 gal barrel. That's not fool-proof though because when the plants get watered the level drops and the water comes back on. If it fills too fast, I'll flood the garage before the water cycle is over. I should have bought the slower filter.

I'm glad installation is easy. I'm going to set it up this weekend. Just inside the garage door is my laundry room. I'll set up the filter in there and pop a short line through the wall. I've still got a lot of work to do.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 19, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Glad to have you. I'll definately need your input.
> 
> That's funny because my friend has the Stealth-100, but I THOUGHT he had the 200. So I bought the 200 not wanting a slower piss-dribble than he produces. Now I can only imagine the catastophe I'll create the first time I leave it on over night.
> 
> ...


If you don't mind, would love some picks of what a float valve is and how it actually works - could come in handy, you know? 

And even though mine's a slow piss, even double that output is still gonna be ridiculously slow - you're lucky you have a sink close by to drain to, that's nice.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 19, 2009)

Bob, I will get you a picture of it this evening. Basically, you drill a hole in the side of the tub just above your desired water level. The stem sticks through and you tighten a nut to lock it in. The water line screws into the outside stem. Water rises and the float shuts the water off.

I didn't want to drill a hole in the tub and I was thinking about designing something to drop down in the tub and mount to the float, but anything just sitting in there would just float without turning the water all the way off. I'm going to have to drill a hole.

You still can't leave the water on all the time, but it should avert any major disasters.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 20, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> If you don't mind, would love some picks of what a float valve is and how it actually works - could come in handy, you know?


Had to use my phone for the pic. But this will give you a rough idea of it's size. The water line gets screwed into the stem I'm holding onto 






PS. How do you insert small pictures that get bigger when you click them?


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## Bob Smith (Nov 20, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Had to use my phone for the pic. But this will give you a rough idea of it's size. The water line gets screwed into the stem I'm holding onto
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks man, appreciate that - to put pictures in, I just go to "manage attachments" and insert them - don't do anything special, and they all just come up as thumbnails when I post that get bigger when somebody clicks on them.


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## NewGrowth (Nov 20, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I'm starting with Technaflora BC nutrients http://www.technaflora.com/products.php?product=18
> 
> So far so good, but I'm still in pre-veg. Has anyone used this product or know anything about what I should expect? For my other grows I've used Ionic Nutrients and I was very pleased, but these nutrients came with the EBB-12. Should I phase them out and go back to Ionic or should I buy more BC? What do you guys think?


I've heard good stuff about the BC nutes but I use Ionic myself and have for years . . . guess I'm stuck in my ways


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## smokingrubber (Nov 20, 2009)

I will switch to Ionic when the BC is gone. It came with the ebb system, so I might as well use it if it doesn't suck. You're about to buy another ebb system (check ebay I got mine for $440 out the door). If you're not going to use your starter kit, how much do you want for it? PM me if you're interested.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 21, 2009)

Last night I installed the RO system







I really love how easy it is to open then tent and access it from all sides







Slung the carbon filter into place and strapped it up with 35" rubber bungies.







Here are the babies. 12 days old.







So now I've got to figure out the ducting. Right now, I've only got one fan. It's a monster though! My plan is: 6" line from the filter to the hood. 6" line from the hood to the fan mounted outside the tent. Since the fan is 8", I will have to put an adaptor just before to fan. Then the output is 8" up through the cieling and out a roof vent. I'll slap the output right to the roof vent. All incoming fresh air will be through the cracks in the garage. I might leave a window cracked in the garage, depending on how loud the whole thing gets when it's running.

Today, I'm going to: 1) wire up my 220 electric panel. 2) cut the hole in the ceiling and run all the ducting. 3) finish plumbing the ebb system & test it. If everything goes as planned, tomorrow I'll fill up the room and kick this bitch off. What am I forgetting?

PS, the hanging heater won't be used until I get the Sentinal.

PSS, I don't see a "manage attachments" button. When I use the "insert image", this is what happens.


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## MRLD (Nov 21, 2009)

thats a really nice setup i been wanting to get one of those tents....not enough money though


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## smokingrubber (Nov 21, 2009)

MRLD said:


> thats a really nice setup i been wanting to get one of those tents....not enough money though


It IS a really nice tent. I've been very impressed with it. Plus, it's got windows on the front  I was a little sketch about spending the $ on it, but I'm glad I did.

My friend, who helped me set it up, went out and bought 2 the next day. He also grows and he had a bad case of "tent envy." LOL


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## Dr.RR (Nov 21, 2009)

Damn dude, this is gonna be one sick grow!!!


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## smellychronic (Nov 21, 2009)

Looks like you got everything in order. Good luck with the rest. The Blue Hash should be tasty


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## smokingrubber (Nov 22, 2009)

Sunday afternoon update:

I started yesterday a little late. After working all morning and 2 trips to Depot & Orchard . . . I finally got down to biz.

I mounted the fan on the wall and cut a 8" hole in the ceiling. I pre-assembled the vent parts and sent a crawler to do my dirty work. He needed supplies though.






He plumbed the attic while I plumbed the tent.







And finished off the inside of the tent.







Then today, I wired the electric panel and purchased a speed controller.







Now the problem is NOISE. The fan is mounted directly to the wall. The opposite side of the wall is my living room. When I engage the speed controller the fan hums until full power. It's fine at full go, it's just sucking a massive amount of air. That in itself is loud too. What do I do? I could try to mount the bitch to the ceiling with bungies, but I don't have much headroom to work with. This sucks.

I'll still finish out plumbing the bucket system today. Then I'll fill the reservior and test everything. I can hook up the reservior monitor and calibrate it. I don't think I'll put the babies in there yet though. I won't get the reservior heater until tuesday and the system has to be quieter somehow.

Any good suggestions?


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## smokingrubber (Nov 22, 2009)

I fixed the noise problem by mounting the bitch to the ceiling. MUCH better. I was kinda bummed for a minute. Almost gave up for the day. Smoked a bowl and pressed on.

I've finished plumbing the buckets and I installed the float valve. Now the barrel is filling and I will test everything later tonight. Ah, I might wait on that test till tomorrow. I couldn't stand it if there were a problem and I had to take something apart again. I might save that adventure till tomorrow.

In the morning I will post pics of my progress.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 23, 2009)

Looking very good, my friend - reading and seeing the pics of you setting up takes me back a month or two when all day every day was getting my tents ready for the ladies - it's a rewarding time, especially in hindsight.

The noise from those fans suck, doesn't it? My garage sounds like a Nascar race.............also hung my filter with the same 35" Home Depot bungees - they work great.


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## Widow Maker (Nov 23, 2009)

Looks good! I have the same ebb and grow system. I converted to 5 gal pots though. Had to cut and solder the sensors to make it work. WM


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## smokingrubber (Nov 23, 2009)

Monday morning update:

Mornin' . . . . coffee gooooood!

I got a lot done yesterday. I took the fan off the wall and hung it from the ceiling. I wired up the electrical. I finished plumbing the buckets. AND I turned the light on for the first time  Here are some pics.
  

  

I filled that water barrel til 11pm. I shut it off manually because I don't trust the float yet, and I just wanted to be there to see it shut off. That's a lot of water and it took a good 5 hrs to fill. I can safely say that the chances of me ever flooding the garage are nil. Unless a line pops off somewhere, I should be okay. It would take 2 hrs to get past the float valve and top over.

Once I had time to relax, I sat down to watch the Lakers stomp the Thunder. I noticed a loud hum coming through the wall. That was odd because everything was OFF. I went in the garage and found that the power panel was humming. It hummed when I first powered it up, but I wasn't on the couch trying to watch tv at the time. Right about then I was really glad I had installed a smoke detector directly above the power panel. There was no smoke or heat coming off it, but I felt safer anyway. I went outside and threw the breaker just incase. Today after work, I'll call the electrician to come out and diagnose it for me. Hopefully it's just something he can tighten up or replace inside the box. If not, I'm going to have to come up with an alternate way of mounting that board to the wall. Any good ideas?

Plus, the babies are only 15 days old. That may be a little too soon to throw under 1000w. One isn't growing much. See the Blue Hash #2. I'm hoping it finds it's stride soon and takes off. We'll see. All the rest are growing. Some faster than others, but BH#2 has a bad case of couch lock. What should I do?

My sister and her kids are coming for the weekend. She knows I smoke, but I don't want that hum killing the living room. My sister will will take my room and the kids in the spare . . . that leaves me on the couch listening to that SOB.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 23, 2009)

In terms of the electric, I can't help you out even a little - I had to call an electrician (I'm really big on not dying young).

As far as the struggling seedling goes, not a whole helluva lot you can do - some genetics are better then others, it's the way of the world.

Other then that, tent's looking great - nice to kick back after a long day or setting stuff up and feel pleased with your progress, isn't it?


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## smokingrubber (Nov 23, 2009)

So are they too young to toss under the 1k lamp? I would have it about 4ft away. I'm almost ready to take off my construction hat and put on my grower's hat.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 23, 2009)

If it was me, I'd definitely put them in there (because I'm as impatient as they come), but since it's not me, I'd say "no" - veg them for another few days until you stick them under it.

At least until they all had a couple sets of leaves and some thicker stems.

I really think you're fine either way, but a patient grower would wait.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 23, 2009)

Yeah I'm leaning toward waiting another week. Just because my sister is coming and I won't have time to babysit it much. I'm sure there wouldn't be much work to be done if I've got the nute monitor going, but it would be easier to just throw a blanket over the whole thing and keep the kids out of the garage.

Once it's actually going, I'm sure I'll want to go look in the window every hour


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## smokingrubber (Nov 23, 2009)

Good news from the electrician. He's at my house now and he says the hum is caused by the built-in timer. Or actually the switch that the timer operates. So he's going to bypass the switch (and timer) and that will eliminate the hum. He didn't tell me what he's going to charge me, but whatever is better than that hum. Now I've got to shop for a 220 timer. It never ends huh?


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## smokingrubber (Nov 23, 2009)

Sweet, Hydro-dummy has a timer for $20. I will go pick that up on my way home. My operation just got a lot quieter!

Now my patience is gone again and I want to fire up the tent tonight LOL. First I've got to set up the nute monitor and calibrate it. That should be fun. If all goes well, I can go get the OG clones tomorrow and get this show on the road.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 24, 2009)

Last night when I first walked in the garage, NO HUM. Music to my ears! Of course nothing was on . . . but that was not the case the day before. I put up a power strip and set up the air stones. I also topped off the barrel and calibrated the nute monitor. That was a lot easier than I thought it was going to be! 

I set the timer and watched the buckets fill for the first time. NO LEAKS  Then I watched the buckets drain . . . a little. They still had 2" of water in them and I could hear the pump sucking air. I went in and removed the suction feet from the pump to get it lower in the water. That removed another inch but it still leaves 1" in the bottom of all the buckets. That kinda sucks. I might go buy a slab of sheetrock and raise the buckets another 3/4" above the controller. I don't know. That still wouldn't completely remove all the water from the bottom, so what's the difference between 1' and ½"? It's still standing water.

Anyway, it didn't leak and everthing works like it was supposed to. I think I'm fucking DONE setting shit up! The next purchase is the Sentinal and Co2, but that will have to wait a month. I'm poor.

I went out to my friend's house in the boonies (you guys been there right) and made arangements for clones. I asked for 3 Grandaddy Purp and 3 OG Kush. So I've got 8 percolating in the bathroom right now and I'll move those into the tent pretty soon. Then I'll pick up the 6 clones next monday and percolate those in the bathroom for another week or so. After that I will pick the 12 healthiest and chuck the other 2. Veg them all another 3 or 4 weeks and then switch em over. That's the plan. I love it when a plan comes together.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 24, 2009)

Wanna hear a Thanksgiving story to tell the fam before you eat? It's an old story and I didn't make it up, so retell it without giving me any credit.


Preacher's out hiking through the forest. He comes around a corner and right there, staring at him, is a HUGE bear. Now, he's not too savy so he turns and runs! He's flying through the woods like a mad man and he's pullin away from the bear a little. But he's getting tired so he starts prayin'.

"Oh Lord, save me! Oh Jesus shed your light on this bear's heart and make him see your wonderful grace". Yada yada, he keeps pleading. Then he comes to the end of the trail and it's a CLIFF. Oh no, now he's really praying.

Just then, the bear rips through the bushes and comes to dead stop. The clouds part ways and a light comes down to the bear. The bear blinks a few times and says, "Oh Lord thank you coming into my life . . . and Lord . . . thank you for this FINE meal."

Amen


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## laserbrn (Nov 24, 2009)

A couple of things...

1)Very nice setup. Don't skimp on shit and you'll be just fine. You've spent a lot of time and money already, so don't skimp somewhere stupid in the future. All the steps, all done right, the first time.


2) The only concern I have with your setup is of course going to be heat. Have you tested it with the lights on for 6 hours? You have a lot of bends in that ducting and it's quite long. There wasn't a simpler way to do all of that? If temps stay down then it's not a worry though.

3) The slow seedling, just give it time, it'll come around. In my past experience the faster seedlings tend to be males, so embrace the slow-goers.

4) If you put them under that 1000w light just make sure it's up way at the top. Then watch for stretching. If they don't stretch, leave it there. If they do stretch, bring it down. It's not just the temps, it's the intensity as well, as they get older they get more and more light. If you put it high enough you won't have to worry about frying them.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 24, 2009)

Thanks Laser. Im tryin to do it right. None of us start out knowing everything, and I'm still learning every day. It definately helps to have RIU peers to lean on.

I have not tested it for 6 hrs. Infact 2 days ago I turned the light on for the first time ever (bought it used and it's been in the closet for a year). I will do that tomorrow FOR SURE! I would do it tonight, but I would get a better read from a day run. Infact, maybe I should pop the baby tray in there for a few hours in the big-girl room. Sounds like fun.

The bends in the ducting were nessesary. The output on the system is all 8" so it's got pretty good flow. Plus, there is no way I'm turning the fan up anywhere near full blast. That thing is a freakin wind machine. So fan on 30% won't mind a few bends.

Don't even go there with males! I would be SO PISSED  That's not funny!


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## smokingrubber (Nov 25, 2009)

I fired up the light and stuck the tray in there last night. Some of the girls look a little droopy, but not bad. Two days ago I filled the res and I've been cycling the bucket system twice a day (straight RO water with no plants in the buckets). 

I've been monitoring the Ph level and it is rising. It started at 6.30 . . . now it's at 7.10. What does this mean? Yesterday I installed the res heater and the temps are steady at 74f. Should I recalibrate the Ph meter? I wanted to put the babies in pots today and nute the barrel. Should I just Ph down it and press on? I'm thinking that because the bucket system and everything is new, some of the mold-release or other chemical is leaching off. Maybe I should dump this water and start fresh? Damn that's a lot of water!

PS. The temperature in there is freakin lovely! It stays at about 5 degrees warmer than the garage. Fan on 40%. Where I live, it's always pretty perfect outside. I will get a dehumidifier next month, but it won't be a problem during veg.


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## Bob Smith (Nov 25, 2009)

1) definitely calibrate your pH meter - super important
2) doesn't make sense that the pH would be rising that drastically with R/O water - with tap it could, because tap has buffers in it to maintain a certain pH
3) how come you're putting a heater in your rez? 65 is the "perfect" temp for a rez - unless it's under 60F, I wouldn't bother with the heater........
4) Nute your water first before pH'ing it - the nutes will lower the pH just by being added


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## smokingrubber (Nov 25, 2009)

Thanks Bob.
1. I will calibrate it right now.
2. thats why I was thinking it had something to do with all the new plastic and it'll stop after the new is worn off. Fingers crossed.
3. It stayed at about 58-60 without the heater but I thought it would help to sauna the babies? I have the heater so (and it looks cool) I'll just set it to 65.
4. Good tip, I will nute now.

I'm gonna go do that and pot the babies. I turned a couple over and they were pretty light with a couple roots showing on the bottom (3" rw). It's time to go potting.


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## jeb5304 (Nov 25, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I'm starting with Technaflora BC nutrients http://www.technaflora.com/products.php?product=18
> 
> So far so good, but I'm still in pre-veg. Has anyone used this product or know anything about what I should expect? For my other grows I've used Ionic Nutrients and I was very pleased, but these nutrients came with the EBB-12. Should I phase them out and go back to Ionic or should I buy more BC? What do you guys think?


id stick with the technaflora line. do you use all the recipe for success or just the bc? i buy the starter kit with everything. cheaper than buying all seperate. i just buy 2. here is where i get mine at. 30 + shipping is good price http://www.bestgrowlights.com/site/403863/product/SSI726740


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## smokingrubber (Nov 25, 2009)

I potted them but it seems I potted them too low. For some reason my test run wasn't a full fill and I calibrated my hydroton off that. The fix is I went and bought those trays you put under pots and I flipped them over. This allowed the pots top sit about an inch higher. This also drained an extra 5-6 gallons back into the res.

I nuted the barrel. I was following the recipe for success but I used ALL the boost and half the grow in this one fill. That will never do. My target was 400-500 ppm, but I overshot it. 870 ppm. I have my fingers crossed.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 26, 2009)

I have a urgent problem with the buckets. I started a new thread to solicit advise. If anyone can help, I would appreciate it.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/277062-bucket-system-help-syphon-problem.html#post3448446


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## smokingrubber (Nov 29, 2009)

Whew, it was hard to leave the babies alone for that long. I still snuck in there once a day, but we didn't get our quality time like I wanted! Sorry girls . . . Daddy loves you.

4 days in the tent now, and I'm seeing some seriously happy girls. They are lovin the light and lovin the love. I completely flooded them a couple times and I pumped them up with a bit more plant crack than I wanted, but they are takin it on the chin (most of them). I put them up on stands the other day and drilled holes in them to prevent moisture. Everything seems to be working well.

The ph has leveled off a bit, but not completely. I hit it with a capful of ph down, which took it from 6.4 to 5.7 . . . and 3 days later it's back to 6.3. The ppm is steady at 840-880. Reservior temp steady 69-72f. Twice a day feedings and 18/6 lighting.

They are looking a bit too light green and the oldest set of leaves is beginning to look upset, but new growth is everywhere. I've got clones to pick up tomorrow night so I'll merc the two weakest and fill up the room soon.

I need a smoke!

Day 19 - since they poked their head's above ground.


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## smokingrubber (Nov 30, 2009)

The 3 A-train's seems to be catching up to the 2 Blue Hash. The 3rd BH isn't going to cut the mustard. She'll be placed on waivers soon. Everyone seems to be doing well and I think they're settling in for a few weeks of solid growth. LA Woman and Lemon Skunk are lagging a little, but I wouldn't merc them unless I had a strong replacement.

Tonight, I will fetch the clones and put them under the T5 for a couple days. It will have to depend on how established they are when I get them. He cut them a week ago, so they should all have a bit of root growth. I will soak the 3" RW tonight if they're ready. If all goes well, I think I will fill the room by the end of the week. I'll get pics tonight.

Getting 3 OG Kush & 3 GranDaddy Purp . . . hehe

Looks like I'm not going to have enough of any one kind to sell! I will just have to keep it all.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 1, 2009)

Still growing  It's nice to see growth every day. I took pics of each plant this morning. Here they are. Day 22


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## laserbrn (Dec 1, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Still growing  It's nice to see growth every day. I took pics of each plant this morning. Here they are. Day 22


Your setup looks nice and clean. Your plants look very happy thus far. Do you have them on nutes yet?


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## smokingrubber (Dec 1, 2009)

Yes, they went on the juice as soon as they went into the tent. I'm using the Floro-something starter nutes that came with the ebb system. 850 ppm, 6.10 ph, 70 degree res.

That's a higher ppm than I wanted, but I started reading the nute instructuions and adding away willy-nilly. I thought I was going slow, but the ppm count jumped faster than I thought it would. It's a good thing I was going slow I guess.

That good-for-nothing Blue Hash #2 has finally started to perk up. I saw solid growth from her for the first time ever. That probably won't be enough to save her from getting pushed out for some Grandaddy purp, but I apprerciate her effort. That's unfortunate because I've grown Blue Hash before and 3-4 zips a plant can be expected. Everyone I shared it with really loved it.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 2, 2009)

My clone-source isn't as reliable as I had hoped. He said he would take cuttings last week so they would be established when I picked them up. Well I called last night and he informed me that he has not taken the cuttings yet  So he'll take them today and I've got to go get them tonight. That means I will have to dome them for a week and pre-veg them for another week. And pay for them even if they don't root! That's approximately 2 weeks before I can fill the room. $hit! Not much I can do about it . . . but $hit! I'll keep you posted.


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## laserbrn (Dec 2, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> My clone-source isn't as reliable as I had hoped. He said he would take cuttings last week so they would be established when I picked them up. Well I called last night and he informed me that he has not taken the cuttings yet  So he'll take them today and I've got to go get them tonight. That means I will have to dome them for a week and pre-veg them for another week. And pay for them even if they don't root! That's approximately 2 weeks before I can fill the room. $hit! Not much I can do about it . . . but $hit! I'll keep you posted.


 
That's pretty fucked up. Depending on strain it could be awhile to root. This WW I'm working with rooted in about 10 days. In the past most I've dealth with took about 14-21 days. 10 was pretty fast. I don't remember if you're in an MMJ state. If not why not just go to the dispensary and get some cuttings (although I hate the dispensary clone system)?


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## smokingrubber (Dec 2, 2009)

I'm in Cali and I have a script, but that's mostly so I can grow in peace. The nearest disp is an hour and a half away and I've had friends that were disappointed in thier babies. I thought this was going to work out better, but at least I know the lineage. Either way, I would still be dealing with some bull$hit. (flappy-lip exhale)


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## laserbrn (Dec 2, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I'm in Cali and I have a script, but that's mostly so I can grow in peace. The nearest disp is an hour and a half away and I've had friends that were disappointed in thier babies. I thought this was going to work out better, but at least I know the lineage. Either way, I would still be dealing with some bull$hit. (flappy-lip exhale)


I've found the same thing and run into the same troubles. I'm in Socal and I live near TONS of dispensaries, but I've never found anything worth a shit IN the dispensary and what I've come across from people "in the know" sorta speak have just been too pricey. I appreciate the offers I was made for some dank cuts, but I just decided to start with the FI from seed. No one around here has it anyway, so it'll be interesting to see first hand.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 3, 2009)

When I read about you guys being able to buy clones legally, a small tear runs down my cheek.

My ass has to wait on beans, grow them out, and pick the best genetics out..................weak - there's a satisfaction in picking your own mothers, but I'd love the months of time saved from buying my own.

This may be a silly question, but why wouldn't you just buy ten different clones of different genetics and then turn them all into mamas? I'd pay $15 for one clone and veg for a month or two and get 50 clones off of it rather then paying $700 for fifty clones, no?

EDIT: FYI, that "Prop 215 and Proud" is simply window dressing for the undercovers; I'm three time zones away.


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## laserbrn (Dec 3, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> When I read about you guys being able to buy clones legally, a small tear runs down my cheek.
> 
> My ass has to wait on beans, grow them out, and pick the best genetics out..................weak - there's a satisfaction in picking your own mothers, but I'd love the months of time saved from buying my own.
> 
> ...


I thought the same thing back in the day about the clones, but to be honest the system is too jacked up. The vendors don't give out clones of their good pheno's and/or gene's. They would be flooding their own markets. Every 3rd person around seems to grow pot so if they gave out thier top shelf shit they would be killing their own profits. 

Like I said, you can get some good cuts, but they are going to cost you. Or you're going to have to be "in the know" which around here seems to be a lot of thugs or russian mobsters. I don't know those guys so I buy beans like everybody else and I grow them out. I've had better success with the beans over the past 12 months than I did with the clones over the last few years. I used to just go to the dispensary, get the clones and get the job done, but was I ALWAYS see the same crappy phenotype no matter what the hell they call the strain. It's really bizarre shit.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 3, 2009)

That's a good idea and certainly one I would love to implement in the years to come. But since I'm relatively new to this hobby, I don't even HAVE a spot to keep mothers yet. It will come, but I've had to focus my resources ($) on the tent and all that that requires. My day job has to provide for everything and it's honestly a little more wobbly than I would like at the moment. I've spent relatively little money collecting Veg equipment. I've got a T5 and a domed tray . . . that's it. And I'm not done in the flower room! I've still got to get a Sentinal, a full Co2 setup & a dehudifier. Then I'll need an AC before the warmer months get here. For now, I've got to run a 1-room system and expand when the first stage is complete.

All in time. This is a very expensive hobby.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 3, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> That's a good idea and certainly one I would love to implement in the years to come. But since I'm relatively new to this hobby, I don't even HAVE a spot to keep mothers yet. It will come, but I've had to focus my resources ($) on the tent and all that that requires. My day job has to provide for everything and it's honestly a little more wobbly than I would like at the moment. I've spent relatively little money collecting Veg equipment. I've got a T5 and a domed tray . . . that's it. And I'm not done in the flower room! I've still got to get a Sentinal, a full Co2 setup & a dehudifier. Then I'll need an AC before the warmer months get here. For now, I've got to run a 1-room system and expand when the first stage is complete.
> 
> All in time. This is a very expensive hobby.


You're not kidding, my friend........I stopped keeping track at $5K, and that was a month or two ago.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 3, 2009)

I decided to wait a few days before going to pick up the clones. I don't want to pay for unrooted cuttings. He can root them and I'll take over next week.

NO WONDER my day job is wobbly . . . I spend all damn day on the internet!


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## smokingrubber (Dec 3, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> You're not kidding, my friend........I stopped keeping track at $5K, and that was a month or two ago.


I'm at about 3k now. I've got to throw at least another K at the flower room . . . I haven't even tried to figure a budget on the veg room yet.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 3, 2009)

It's just money, who cares 

Easy come, easy go............can't wait to see the fruits of my labor (and my wallet) develop over the next two months.


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## laserbrn (Dec 3, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> It's just money, who cares
> 
> Easy come, easy go............can't wait to see the fruits of my labor (and my wallet) develop over the next two months.


I really, really don't want to try to count up either A) how much I own currently (full retail value I paid for it) or B) all of the equipment I've every owned or replaced. It would probably make me cry a little, but compared to what I've smoked it's nothing.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 4, 2009)

This Grow Journal is amazing: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/257646-nirvana-ak-48-600-watt.html

I can only apsire to grow happy cows like this mf! After reading this I'm considering LST. He's BLOWING up a 2x4 tent with 4 plants!!! I'm afraid of what would happen with 12 plants. How would I get in there to tend it? Maybe I should stick with traditional methods? I will give it some thought and I welcome your opinion.


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## Abnjm (Dec 4, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I was kinda bummed for a minute. Almost gave up for the day. Smoked a bowl and pressed on.


Thanks for stopping by my grow! I can see we use the same motivational methods for completing work in the back forty! 

I read your entire log, and I'll bet you are getting big yields of sweet bud in no time at all. I can also tell that you did a lot of reading before even setting up your grow. That makes it so much easier to get it right the first time.

'Scribed and + Rep for doing it right. Can't wait to see the results!


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## smokingrubber (Dec 4, 2009)

I appreciate the words of support. I did do a lot of reading. Still much to learn though! Anything you see I'm doing wrong or could be doing better please sing out. I will be watching your grow as well


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## Bob Smith (Dec 5, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> This Grow Journal is amazing: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/257646-nirvana-ak-48-600-watt.html
> 
> I can only apsire to grow happy cows like this mf! After reading this I'm considering LST. He's BLOWING up a 2x4 tent with 4 plants!!! I'm afraid of what would happen with 12 plants. How would I get in there to tend it? Maybe I should stick with traditional methods? I will give it some thought and I welcome your opinion.


Smoking, have never done LST, but SOG has always worked and been quite simple to me.

Veg plants until they're 12" tall and then flower them - super efficient, quick, and stress free.

You and I have the same size tent, and I'm doing 64 my next round (30 this one), so 12 plants would fit fine - you could veg up to ~24" and grow "semi-bushes" (or at least what a SOGer like myself considers a "bush").


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## smokingrubber (Dec 5, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Smoking, have never done LST, but SOG has always worked and been quite simple to me.
> 
> Veg plants until they're 12" tall and then flower them - super efficient, quick, and stress free.
> 
> You and I have the same size tent, and I'm doing 64 my next round (30 this one), so 12 plants would fit fine - you could veg up to ~24" and grow "semi-bushes" (or at least what a SOGer like myself considers a "bush").


I've been really torn with this. Tossing and turning all night (I need a life). Should I LST - Top to 2 - Top to 4 - Leave em be? They're at about the size that I need to make a decision. I'm leaning toward Top to 4 and I'm sure I'll screw up a few of those so I'll end up with a few 2's. What do you think?

Day 10 in veg tent.


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## Abnjm (Dec 5, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I've been really torn with this. Tossing and turning all night (I need a life). Should I LST - Top to 2 - Top to 4 - Leave em be? They're at about the size that I need to make a decision. I'm leaning toward Top to 4 and I'm sure I'll screw up a few of those so I'll end up with a few 2's. What do you think?
> 
> Day 10 in veg tent.


I'm not a Weed Baron, and I don't play one on TV; but I vote LST. Topping and FIM'ing are both effective methods of canopy control, but I've read that these methods reduce the auxins going to each growth tip, which causes potency to suffer. I'm not saying it's a fact, but you can get the lower branches to "catch up" by simply tying the plant down and retain the strong main growth tip.

Just my $0.02....

Good luck!


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## smokingrubber (Dec 5, 2009)

Abnjm said:


> I'm not a Weed Baron, and I don't play one on TV; but I vote LST. Topping and FIM'ing are both effective methods of canopy control, but I've read that these methods reduce the auxins going to each growth tip, which causes potency to suffer. I'm not saying it's a fact, but you can get the lower branches to "catch up" by simply tying the plant down and retain the strong main growth tip.
> 
> Just my $0.02....
> 
> Good luck!


I like where you're going with it. Okay but how overgrown will the tundra become? Yours is only 2 feet deep and I bet it's a bitch to find the back. I'm just afraid of biting off more than I can chew. Gotta smoke on it. I don't wanna be greedy and fuck it up cuz I didn't know what I was doing. I still have a week or so before I need to start training them don't I?

 Yeah gotta burn some thinking weed. Today's menu has Grape Ape and Blue Hash. BRB


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## Abnjm (Dec 5, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I like where you're going with it. Okay but how overgrown will the tundra become? Yours is only 2 feet deep and I bet it's a bitch to find the back. I'm just afraid of biting off more than I can chew. Gotta smoke on it. I don't wanna be greedy and fuck it up cuz I didn't know what I was doing. I still have a week or so before I need to start training them don't I?
> 
> Yeah gotta burn some thinking weed. Today's menu has Grape Ape and Blue Hash. BRB


My previous tent was 4' x 4', and I had a hell of a time working with the back plants when I didn't manage the canopy. The Sun Hut has front and back openings, so it's no longer an issue. 

You still have plenty of time. I started my LST on the 10th day in the tent. I don't think I'll ever do the whole 360 degree LST. In fact, I barely got 1/4 the way around on this grow. On my next production grow I am just going to take them to the other side of the pot. This will give me enough vertical space in the tent, and make them pretty bushy.

Heading to my buddy's house to deliver an AK-48 mom and check out his new flower room.

I think there might be some thinking weed involved....

Good luck!


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## smokingrubber (Dec 5, 2009)

The GrowLab opens up all the way around. I would still have to move some crap in the garage to get all the way around it. But I guess it's got to be done. 

I see growth every day, so I know it's growing fast . . . but it's not growing fast enough! Is it just me?


*49ER Tickets for Sale*: I'm poorer than usual right now. I'd really love to change the res but not enough $ for nutes till next weekend, since I will need the full Monty. That'll be about 16 days on this res and that's a little abbusive imo. Anyway, if there are any 49er fans out there, I've got 2 tickets and a parking pass for next week's *Monday Night Football* game against the Cardinals. I'm trying to get 3 for em, but I'm willing to talk to a RIU & 49er fan. Candinal fans should keep looking. LOL.


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## laserbrn (Dec 6, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> The GrowLab opens up all the way around. I would still have to move some crap in the garage to get all the way around it. But I guess it's got to be done.
> 
> I see growth every day, so I know it's growing fast . . . but it's not growing fast enough! Is it just me?
> 
> ...


 
Wish I could get in on those tickets, but I don't get paid until Tues. I'm sure someone will take them off your hands. Craigslist or ebay usually works pretty well.

Post up some pics of the growth and we'll see how it's going. You started at the same time I did right? Things just start off really, really slow. It's best to try to ignore them for the first 3 weeks or so. After that it's on like donkey kong and you can't keep it under control. 

I feel like this FI is struggling along too, but it'll pull through and continue on it's way. Still not even on nutrients yet.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 6, 2009)

Ring me up tuesday if you want em. It probably depends on the outcome of today, to determine demand. We'll see. They're on Craigslist already.

I think I started a week or so before you. I'm at 28 days since germ and 11 days veg.

Left to right:
2 from outside the tent
3 Blue Hash (the runt got designated BH3 cuz its a runt but its the 2nd pic)
1 LA Woman
3 A-Train
1 Lemon Skunk
1 Where I stand for an hour after work every day
1 The Engine Room

The runt and the Lemon Skunk are likely to be compost soon. The tips of the big ones are starting to curl up a bit. It's been cold so I've had a small elec heater on low in the garage. RH is at about 40%. What can I do without spending a bunch of caish?


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## Abnjm (Dec 6, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Ring me up tuesday if you want em. It probably depends on the outcome of today, to determine demand. We'll see. They're on Craigslist already.
> 
> I think I started a week or so before you. I'm at 28 days since germ and 11 days veg.
> 
> ...


I'd hold on to the runt and Lemon Skunk. You never know how these plants will perform down the road. Sometimes the worst early-performers pick it up and shine in flower.... Besides, do you have plants at a similar age to re-fill the empty buckets?

Your leaves look healthy to my old eyes. No sign of overnute or temperature issues. If I'm reading your themometer correctly the tent is at 66.3F and 60F outside. If you are 6F higher than ambient, you've got the light properly cooled. You have plenty of heat available from the 1000w, is there any way you can feed the exhaust (or some of it) into the garage?

Just throwin' shit against the wall....


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## smokingrubber (Dec 6, 2009)

Abnjm said:


> I'd hold on to the runt and Lemon Skunk. You never know how these plants will perform down the road. Sometimes the worst early-performers pick it up and shine in flower.... Besides, do you have plants at a similar age to re-fill the empty buckets?
> 
> Your leaves look healthy to my old eyes. No sign of overnute or temperature issues. If I'm reading your themometer correctly the tent is at 66.3F and 60F outside. If you are 6F higher than ambient, you've got the light properly cooled. You have plenty of heat available from the 1000w, is there any way you can feed the exhaust (or some of it) into the garage?
> 
> Just throwin' shit against the wall....


I've clones coming. Had a little hickup on that but I will definately wait until I've got something better to replace them with. 

I really haven't figured out the whole inside/outside info regarding RH on this thermometer. Who needs to know RH inside the house? But yeah, I'm pretty sure the inside of the tent has been 5-10 degrees warmer than the garage. I'm hoping Santa brings me a Sentinal Climate Controller  This is about as cold as it gets around here.

Here are some closer shots of A-Train #1


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## laserbrn (Dec 6, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I've clones coming. Had a little hickup on that but I will definately wait until I've got something better to replace them with.
> 
> I really haven't figured out the whole inside/outside info regarding RH on this thermometer. Who needs to know RH inside the house? But yeah, I'm pretty sure the inside of the tent has been 5-10 degrees warmer than the garage. I'm hoping Santa brings me a Sentinal Climate Controller  This is about as cold as it gets around here.
> 
> Here are some closer shots of A-Train #1


Things look pretty good to me. Only time I see that curling on the leaves is on the plant closest to my fan in my grow space. Only thing I can suggest is to shuffle things around if possible (don't know how moveable things are in that setup) so you can eliminate the heater or any other variables.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 6, 2009)

No one noticed my LA Woman in the middle?


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## Abnjm (Dec 6, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> No one noticed my LA Woman in the middle?


My eyes are old, but it looks fine to me. A little light in color, but that could be the lighting.


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## alexonfire (Dec 6, 2009)

wow you've got some really good strains in there. Cant wait until the get bigger


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## smokingrubber (Dec 6, 2009)

Abnjm said:


> My eyes are old, but it looks fine to me. A little light in color, but that could be the lighting.


I think you were looking at the wrong picture.







See her now? Found her in the 80s. Good times


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## Hoosier Homegrown (Dec 6, 2009)

I am using BC with The purps right now in a similar set up. I ran into a N-K deficiencies when i was in a veg state...But once i switched to bloom and a higher PPM i was fine...but my soil is full of vermiculite perlite and coco fibers....if you have good draining try a higher PPM


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## Abnjm (Dec 6, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I think you were looking at the wrong picture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I remember giggling when I saw her. I meant to warn you that you had a nekkid chick in ur tent. But, I'm a bit blazed and forgot to put it in my response... 

Very cool!


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## Bob Smith (Dec 7, 2009)

Abnjm said:


> I'd hold on to the runt and Lemon Skunk. You never know how these plants will perform down the road. Sometimes the worst early-performers pick it up and shine in flower.... Besides, do you have plants at a similar age to re-fill the empty buckets?
> 
> Your leaves look healthy to my old eyes. No sign of overnute or temperature issues. If I'm reading your themometer correctly the tent is at 66.3F and 60F outside. If you are 6F higher than ambient, you've got the light properly cooled. You have plenty of heat available from the 1000w, is there any way you can feed the exhaust (or some of it) into the garage?
> 
> Just throwin' shit against the wall....


I have had to do that as well in my tent - temps in my garage are only in the 50-60 range these days, so instead of air-cooling my light and running an electric heater inside the tent, I unplugged the fan that cools my light, and just use the heat produced by my uncooled 1000W to warm the tent.

I'd definitely recommend that for efficiency, although be careful you don't roast them - I've got the Sentinel so I can relax a little, but make sure it doesn't get too hot in there.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 7, 2009)

I will keep an eye on it for sure. With the fan outside the tent, everything is getting sucked out. I would have to tap the exhaust line and run it back to the tent somehow. It's looks so clean right now, I don't know. Im hoping that they'll "buck up" a little and take it on the chin. Help is on the way.

Bob, does the Sentinal control the fan speed? Can I just plug in the fan and let the Sentinal control evertything? If it kicked on full blast, it would clear the room in seconds. Otherwise, I can leave the fan controller inline and adjust it manually. Also, what about fans inside the tent? Does it kick those on and off for Co2?


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## Bob Smith (Dec 7, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I will keep an eye on it for sure. With the fan outside the tent, everything is getting sucked out. I would have to tap the exhaust line and run it back to the tent somehow. It's looks so clean right now, I don't know. Im hoping that they'll "buck up" a little and take it on the chin. Help is on the way.
> 
> Bob, does the Sentinal control the fan speed? Can I just plug in the fan and let the Sentinal control evertything? If it kicked on full blast, it would clear the room in seconds. Otherwise, I can leave the fan controller inline and adjust it manually. Also, what about fans inside the tent? Does it kick those on and off for Co2?


No, the Sentinel doesn't control the fan speed, but yes, you can just plug in the fan and let the Sentinel control everything.

Like you, my fans totally exhaust the tent air in <1 minute, so it doesn't take very long.

As far as the fans in the tent, do you mean the 12" oscillating fan? Because that's always on, 24/7.

As far as the three inline fans (one hooked up to carbon filter, one to light, and then one for intake), yes, it controls the intake and exhaust fans, but the light-cooling fan is on the same timer as the light is.

Going to change this, and perhaps use my CAP-TMp (thermostate) to control that fan, leaving it off (no air-cooling) until the temps reach about 81, when it'll kick on (I could just have that fan controlled with the intake and exhaust fans by the Sentinel, but I try to minimize them coming on in order to conserve CO2).

Ran out of CO2 last night and the refill place is closed today - looking at generators online right now, I'm already tired of refilling these tanks.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 7, 2009)

I thought you just refilled those? How long are the tanks lasting? Please keep us informed on your generator hunt. "WE" need one that doesn't have to be in the tent. Have to make sure filling the propane bottles isn't more frequent and more $ than filling the Co2 tanks.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 7, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I thought you just refilled those? How long are the tanks lasting? Please keep us informed on your generator hunt. "WE" need one that doesn't have to be in the tent. Have to make sure filling the propane bottles isn't more frequent and more $ than filling the Co2 tanks.


I refilled them the first (and only, so far) time (hold on, checking picture dates) on October 27th, but didn't start using my big tent until November 10th.

So, have gone through three tanks in about 30 days, but to be fair, 24 of those days were vegging with the CO2 running 24/7, and the first tank that I put on I installed incorrectly and let a lot of the gas out.

Regardless, propane is much, much, much more efficient then bottled CO2.

Using the link below and running some numbers (one pound of liquid CO2 is equivalent to 7 pounds of gaseous CO2, so each 20# tank gives you 140 cubic feet of gas), the numbers are overwhelming.

One 25# tank of propane will get me 2700 cubic feet of CO2, whereas each 20 pound bottle gets me 140. That's more then 19 times as efficient.

https://www.greenair.com/page/co2-generator-size-and-timing-chart.html

EDIT: even taking into account that the delivery system for CO2 is more efficient with a regulator and tanks, it's nowhere near worth the time and money of getting them refilled every 30-50 days. Also, there's nothing shady about getting a propane tank filled, whereas I'm anticipating some shady looks from the welding supply store guys already, and am somewhat dreading if I have to go again in another month or two.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 7, 2009)

Those are some good numbers. Are you planning to hang it in the tent? $540 on amazon for the cd-6 btw

I found a CD-3 in San Leandro for $170 craigslist (fyi im not buying it)
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/tls/1494282610.html


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## Bob Smith (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks; been checking Craigslist looking for deals, but if I don't find any, will probably go with this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CAP-GEN-1-CO2-GENERATOR-BURNER_W0QQitemZ360205409854QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item53ddea5e3e

Have a lot of CAP products, and they all perform quite well for me - don't see the need to pay $200 more for the Greenair name, in all honesty.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 8, 2009)

I'm probably going to go with this model just because *you can duct the Co2 directly into the tent*. I like that it can be mounted to a wall and it puts off relatively little heat. I will wait a few months . . . until I move. For this grow, I'll have to invest in a bottle setup. 

I've got a 250 gallon horse trough that would be perfect as a back yard reservior.

http://www.hydroinnovations.com/product2.htm

That's funny because I have seen a house that had 2 water lines running into a water trough and I never knew what they were for. I have koi in my trough but their setup didn't look anything like mine. Now I know what they were doing  No wonder they didn't want to talk about it, or koi. LOL


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## Bob Smith (Dec 8, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I'm probably going to go with this model just because *you can duct the Co2 directly into the tent*. I like that it can be mounted to a wall and it puts off relatively little heat. I will wait a few months . . . until I move. For this grow, I'll have to invest in a bottle setup.
> 
> I've got a 250 gallon horse trough that would be perfect as a back yard reservior.
> 
> ...


A couple of things - what model can be ducted directly into the tent, the HydroGen? And if that's possible with that, I imagine I can do it with mine - if I can't, might just have to buy a HydroGen as well as the other CO2 devices I have.

And also, if you're sure you're getting a generator at a later date, I wouldn't spend the money on CO2 for this grow - it'll just be a few hundred bucks that you'll never get back, IMHO.

I'm keeping my tanks and regulator in case the summertime is just too hot for a generator, but if I could go back a couple of months, I wouldn't have bought them.

Ah, who am I kidding, I probably would've bought them anyways, but that's because I'm made of money (just kidding).


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## smokingrubber (Dec 8, 2009)

Yes, the HydroGEN can be ducted into the tent. It has a 6" exhaust port coming straight off the top. Since the exhaust is being water cooled, it's naturally being funneled through a heat-exchanger enclosed system. That's all covered in the video.

Right now, my ony problem with it would be the reservior. Maybe I'll drain to waste for a few months though. That waste water would still be cheaper than a Co2 bottle and regulator. Just thinking it through. We all wish we were made of money like you


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## Bob Smith (Dec 8, 2009)

Yeah, in hindsight I might have to get a HydroGen - have plenty of room for a large reservoir to cool it with.

We'll see what happens though.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 8, 2009)

I'm sure you could sell the one you just bought, or cancel the order cuz you just ordered it last night? Call em.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 8, 2009)

Nah, I'll just wait until it gets here and see what I can do with it - feel bad after hounding that guy to make sure he had it in stock to cancel it.

Plus, I still have some reservations about the HydroGen (also didn't see where it said you could pump into another room, am I missing that?).


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## smokingrubber (Dec 8, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Plus, I still have some reservations about the HydroGen (also didn't see where it said you could pump into another room, am I missing that?).


He discusses it in the video. While the unit running, he puts his hand over the vent hole to show that it's not hot and says it can be ducted into another room (tent). If you use foil ducting that's a little extra long, that would leech off the heat too. He also discusses a water valve soloniod that can be installed on your house water to allow the system to be controlled by the Sentinal.

In the "run to waiste" mode, it dumps 13 gal per hour. Assuming that it's only ON half the time and only on during daytime . . . that's only 78 gal per day. That's not bad. An extra $20-$30 on the water bill maybe. If I only do that for 3 or 4 months, that's much cheaper than a bottle setup.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 8, 2009)

Yeah, I was kinda figuring that with long enough ducting I could hopefully let some of the heat dissipate before it got blown into the tent.

Regardless, have a sneaking suspicion that I'll be buying one of those come summertime.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 8, 2009)

I've decided to LST these little bitches. Thanks Abnjm! I will only LST them half way around the pot though. I'm going to go back and read a little more info on actually _doing_ it, but the process has begun. The happy ones are pushing higher and higher. The stalks are getting thick so I'm afraid if I wait much longer, it'll be too late.







I have to drill holes in the upper pots. I figured 8 holes equally spaced around a 10" pot. They end up being about 2" apart. Is this close enough? I practiced drilling a few of the emptys and now I'll practice my tying technique on one of the runts.







Am I using the right string?








Thanks for everyone's help. I have HIGH hopes  I'll be studying and playing with my string out back, if anyone needs me.

Study material: https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/6834-how-lst-low-stress-training.html


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## smokingrubber (Dec 8, 2009)

It just yokes over at the base. Is this right? Should I be pinching it into shape? I will wait a minute before continueing. I should have started this last week.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 8, 2009)

I did a few of the small ones before I tackled the big ones. When I pulled up Blue Hash #1 . . .






It's a good thing I had a few empty buckets to use underneath while I drill and tie.

Look how thick the stalk is. Is it too late to LST? Damn this is gonna suck.











It's getting dark already. I might have to wrap this up tomorrow. It got dark friggin fast it seems.

PS. that bag in the background is a turkey I'm brining.


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## Abnjm (Dec 8, 2009)

I'm trying to find my other study materials, but I don't think I bookmarked them. Sorry dude.

Some people tie the very base of the plant to the opposite side from where they are pulling the plant. This allows you to pull the plant over without yanking out the roots. I don't think there is any right or wrong way to do the LST. As long as you understand you are trying to get maximum light to the lower branches, you'll know what to do.

As fast as your plants are growing, I don't think you'll make it half way around the pot. They'll be too thick! 

EDIT: I used kite string too. It worked fine. Just be sure to secure the plant with a loose loop around the stem.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 8, 2009)

Thanks. I left a pretty fat loop for the stalk. I think I'm doing okay for a virgin. It's a little down and dirty . . . like most good things


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## smokingrubber (Dec 8, 2009)

Well I got it done. It wasn't too bad (only 8 plants). Had to bust out the portable light setup. Next time I'll do better for sure and the last couple ones went much smoother once I figured out a system. That would have been a real bitch if I couldn't take them out of the tent though. I will have to find a bucket that fits underneath after my other pots are filled.

It's about 3 hrs to lights out and they always get very droopy right before bed. I don't expect much movement before tomorrow. My lighting schedule is ON from 4am to 10pm. I will snap another pic in the morning at around 7.












Time to cook a turkey


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## smokingrubber (Dec 9, 2009)

Mornin 

I popped my head in the tent this morning and everyone was happy to see me. Well, they were happy at least. The main stalks had moved over a couple inches, but everyone was standing straight up like nothin bad had happened. I can see I'm gonna have to do it again in a day or two.

I snapped a pic but my camera is out in the car. I'll post it in awhile.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 9, 2009)

Interested; I frankly don't really know what LST is or have ever seen a real tutorial on it - definitely paying attention.

With my plant numbers, probably not something I'll ever do, but who knows if I might decide to switch in the future.

Good stuff.


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## laserbrn (Dec 9, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Interested; I frankly don't really know what LST is or have ever seen a real tutorial on it - definitely paying attention.
> 
> With my plant numbers, probably not something I'll ever do, but who knows if I might decide to switch in the future.
> 
> Good stuff.


LST is good stuff. I'm done with it, but it works and it does increase yield. If you are looking to keep your plant numbers low it's the way to go. I did quite the LST job on my first grow where I only used 2 plants and got a couple oz's from each under a 250w HPS. Don't think I could've matched that without doing it and kept it two plants. 

Starting early is important so it looks like you're off to the right track.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 9, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Interested; I frankly don't really know what LST is or have ever seen a real tutorial on it - definitely paying attention.
> 
> With my plant numbers, probably not something I'll ever do, but who knows if I might decide to switch in the future.
> 
> Good stuff.


I'm learning as I go. So far, it seems pretty straight forward. I like the idea of 60-100 colas plastered all over the tent.  I also want the increased yield. I'm hoping for 2½lbs. That would be right around 1 watt = 1 gram so it seems like a reasonable goal. That could be pie in the sky, but a man can dream. I know the Blue Hash is a good yielder so that should stack the deck a bit.

With my system, I can only run 12 plants and it will be easy to put fans underneath the canopy, so I should have fantastic air flow. There is no reason to _not_ attempt a nice SOG.


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## laserbrn (Dec 9, 2009)

Dude...that goal of 2.5 lbs is WAYYYYYY too lofty. If all goes well I would estimate that in a 4x4 space w/ a 1000w light on your first go around with the strains you've selected you'll be closer to 1lb. 1.5lb would be a good yield. 2.5lb is master gardener status. It just doesn't really happen the first time around.

You have 12 plants right? How long are you planning to veg'em?


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## Bob Smith (Dec 9, 2009)

Agreed; I'll be happy with 1lb. for this run, although I'd like to get up to 2lbs. per 1K sooner rather then later.

However, as Laser said, that's easier said then done.

I'll be content with anything over .75lb, and I think that's a reasonable number for you as well.

Anything more then that is just icing for the first run.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 9, 2009)

I plan to veg them until they get half way around the pot. Some will get a little farther than others since some are already bigger than others, but that's the plan. I suppose that'll take another 3 weeks or so.

Maybe you're right and I'll only get 1-1½ lbs. My GOAL is still 2½. Might as well set the bar high! I won't be too upset if I only come close ... 2¼lbs would be okay too  

With a little help from the RIU community, I think I'll be pretty close. We'll see. I'm not done building the tent, I still have to get the environmental controls going. If I do everything right, there is no reason it shouldn't come out right ... right?


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## laserbrn (Dec 9, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I plan to veg them until they get half way around the pot. Some will get a little farther than others since some are already bigger than others, but that's the plan. I suppose that'll take another 3 weeks or so.
> 
> Maybe you're right and I'll only get 1-1½ lbs. My GOAL is still 2½. Might as well set the bar high! I won't be too upset if I only come close ... 2¼lbs would be okay too
> 
> With a little help from the RIU community, I think I'll be pretty close. We'll see. I'm not done building the tent, I still have to get the environmental controls going. If I do everything right, there is no reason it shouldn't come out right ... right?


It's very uncommon for people to get those kind of goals without growing high yielding strains like Big Bud or NL-5. If you really want that big of a yeild I woulda suggested shoving 2x600w's in their and hoping for the best. Pulling 2.5lbs from a 1000w light is pretty lofty. Just don't want you to be crushed if you fall short.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 9, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I plan to veg them until they get half way around the pot. Some will get a little farther than others since some are already bigger than others, but that's the plan. I suppose that'll take another 3 weeks or so.
> 
> Maybe you're right and I'll only get 1-1½ lbs. My GOAL is still 2½. Might as well set the bar high! I won't be too upset if I only come close ... 2¼lbs would be okay too
> 
> With a little help from the RIU community, I think I'll be pretty close. We'll see. I'm not done building the tent, I still have to get the environmental controls going. If I do everything right, there is no reason it shouldn't come out right ... right?


You and I have pretty similar setups, save that I grow more plants and have my atmospheric controller dialed in, so even if your strain is a little higher-yielding, I'd say that works out to about a push.

I guess my GOAL is 2lbs., by my EXPECTATION is for .75lbs. Anything over that and I'll be happy for this run.


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## laserbrn (Dec 9, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> You and I have pretty similar setups, save that I grow more plants and have my atmospheric controller dialed in, so even if your strain is a little higher-yielding, I'd say that works out to about a push.
> 
> I guess my GOAL is 2lbs., by my EXPECTATION is for .75lbs. Anything over that and I'll be happy for this run.


That's a way more legit way of looking at it to be honest. You'll be a lot happier if you set your expectations a lot more realistic.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 9, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> It's very uncommon for people to get those kind of goals without growing high yielding strains like Big Bud or NL-5. If you really want that big of a yeild I woulda suggested shoving 2x600w's in their and hoping for the best. Pulling 2.5lbs from a 1000w light is pretty lofty. Just don't want you to be crushed if you fall short.


I guess I won't get my hopes up too high. I know 1lb is doable because that's what I'm doing with my other grow already. That's got no environmental controls and a sorta shallow tray. That's also 12 plants, the space is 3'x6½' with a 1000w.

I've got my fingers crossed. It'll be what it'll be, and I can only fit so much canopy in a 4x4 tent. The 1000w throws off great coverage so I should be able to SOG the crap out of it. If it all fills in and I only get 1lb, then I'll know I did the best I could. 1lb of dank would stock the shelves of my vault quite nicely.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 9, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> You and I have pretty similar setups.


That's exactly why I can't wait to see how yours turn out. You have a nice canopy going. It's not really about the number of plants, it the size of the canopy, right? My best guess is 1½ lbs for you. If I get that too, I'll be satisfied. So really my "expectation" is 1lb, but I'm aiming at 2. Anything more than 1lb would be a fantastic bonus because it would be an improvement on my other system. 

IMO, if it doesn't hit 1½lbs then LST was a waiste of time. I have faith though.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 9, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> That's exactly why I can't wait to see how yours turn out. You have a nice canopy going. It's not really about the number of plants, it the size of the canopy, right? My best guess is 1½ lbs for you. If I get that too, I'll be satisfied. So really my "expectation" is 1lb, but I'm aiming at 2. Anything more than 1lb would be a fantastic bonus because it would be an improvement on my other system.
> 
> IMO, if it doesn't hit 1½lbs then LST was a waiste of time. I have faith though.


Canopy's not bad, but it's nowhere near dead even like I plan for my next grow with 64 homogeneous clones.

Different strains, ages, and heights all will reduce my yield this time around.

Next run with 64 clones of identical height of a heavy-yielding strain, I'd be disappointed with less then 1.5 lbs.

That being said, figure it'll take me a few harvests to consistently hit 2lbs/1K.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 9, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> That being said, figure it'll take me a few harvests to consistently hit 2lbs/1K.


Yeah you're probably right. It was a nice little pipe dream I had going though. I'll be satisfied with 1-1½lb. That'll be more than enough to share with friends and stock the shelves. What more could a man ask for?

I'm going to have to budget for a digital ballast soon. That friggin buzzin is startin to bug. I'm kinda tuned to it so I can hear it whenever there is a quiet moment on tv or something. Im worried that people can hear it outside my garage.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 9, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Yeah you're probably right. It was a nice little pipe dream I had going though. I'll be satisfied with 1-1½lb. That'll be more than enough to share with friends and stock the shelves. What more could a man ask for?
> 
> I'm going to have to budget for a digital ballast soon. That friggin buzzin is startin to bug. I'm kinda tuned to it so I can hear it whenever there is a quiet moment on tv or something. Im worried that people can hear it outside my garage.


Ebay is the best place for that, and some may disagree, but IMHO any old electronic will do - no need to spend 4 or 500 for a Galaxy or Lumatek when a knockoff will do the same job at half the price.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 10, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Ebay is the best place for that, and some may disagree, but IMHO any old electronic will do - no need to spend 4 or 500 for a Galaxy or Lumatek when a knockoff will do the same job at half the price.


Good to know. It's 4th or 5th on my priority list, but I like to start looking early so I know what to pay and how to spot a deal.

The room is looking good. All the plants are recovered and growing again. My plants are growing wider than they are taller, so getting around the pot may take a minute.

I got word on the clones last night. He finally took them 3 days ago but they're still in recovery mode. When I balked at the late start he mentioned that he may be willing to part with a few that have been vegging for a month. I don't know how that will work with LST, but I may have to find out. I think I just sold my 49er tickets, so that'll get me some much-needed nutes. Anyone need tix to the 49ers vs Lions in 2 weeks? Cheap


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## laserbrn (Dec 10, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Good to know. It's 4th or 5th on my priority list, but I like to start looking early so I know what to pay and how to spot a deal.
> 
> The room is looking good. All the plants are recovered and growing again. My plants are growing wider than they are taller, so getting around the pot may take a minute.
> 
> I got word on the clones last night. He finally took them 3 days ago but they're still in recovery mode. When I balked at the late start he mentioned that he may be willing to part with a few that have been vegging for a month. I don't know how that will work with LST, but I may have to find out. I think I just sold my 49er tickets, so that'll get me some much-needed nutes. Anyone need tix to the 49ers vs Lions in 2 weeks? Cheap


Dude...49ers and Lions? Why did you buy those in the first place? You thought Detroit was going to turn a corner? You'd have to damn near give those away.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 10, 2009)

I've been a Season Ticket Holder for 4 years. When you buy season tickets you get ALL the games. I had to pay the same price for preseason 49ers vs Denver as I did for MNF. All 10 games of the season are the same price. Playoff games will be the same price also (i think  ). I pay $1,670 a year for 2 tickets and 1 parking pass in case anyone wondered.


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## laserbrn (Dec 10, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I've been a Season Ticket Holder for 4 years. When you buy season tickets you get ALL the games. I had to pay the same price for preseason 49ers vs Denver as I did for MNF. All 10 games of the season are the same price. Playoff games will be the same price also (i think  ). I pay $1,670 a year for 2 tickets and 1 parking pass in case anyone wondered.


That doesn't sound terrible. I figured you were either a season ticket holder or you bought a mini-pack. I used to do that for the Lakers. I can't afford the $10,000.00+ it cost now for laker season tickets so I bought 10 home games for like @ $2450 last years in a minipack. Sold nine of them and went to a game and made a couple of bucks. 

Sucks that basketball teams play 42 games per year at home so buying season tickets is a $10,000 /ticket investment unless you buy terrible seats.

Hopefully you can get something for those Lions tickets, but that's a rough one. But with only 8 home games/yr I'll bet you can still get top dollar for every game regardless of opponent.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 10, 2009)

Next year, I'll trade you 49ers tickets for Lakers tickets! I try to get to 1 Laker game a year, usually wrapped around a convention or a class I want to attend. This year I have a feeling ticket prices are going to be through the roof.

You suuuuure you don't wanna see the Lions game?


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## laserbrn (Dec 10, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Next year, I'll trade you 49ers tickets for Lakers tickets! I try to get to 1 Laker game a year, usually wrapped around a convention or a class I want to attend. This year I have a feeling ticket prices are going to be through the roof.
> 
> You suuuuure you don't wanna see the Lions game?


Haha, you must be in the IT business. That's the route I always take (traveling for a conference or class). Laker tickets are pretty pricey to sit in the good seats. Face value on my tickets is $245.00, but I didn't do it this year. I used to do it with a partner and he didn't have the money available on his credit card this year. He's a coworker and his sales have been off, so I understand, but I'll have to pay the full face value myself to go this year. Can't just sell'em all off and try to make out alright.

I don't have any reason to head out to SF this weekend and I have a 7 week old puppy here that needs me.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 11, 2009)

I'm all loaded up on nutes. I went with GH nutrients. 

I'm using all Ionic Nutriets in my other grow, and they seems to work okay. Not every plant is super excited about them, but they are growing just fine. I just think I'm ready for something a little more advanced.

Many of the successful growers around here are using General Hydroponics stuff. So I bought the full line, along with some SM-90 and some Grotek Silicosis. I think that should cover it. I'll probably have to find a good pest control solution soon, I don't have a problem yet but I want to be proactive about it. What would you guys recommend?

I'm going home at noon today, I'll get on the reservior so that I can clean-fill-nute it all before the next watering. It also might be time to tie down the next set of branches. I'll do that while the barrel is filling (takes 5 hrs).

I couldn't talk my friend out of the large clones because he has already started to flower them. That would be a little too large for late LST . . . and they're in dirt. So I got the fresh clones locked down for pickup on sunday. They'll have some catching up to do.


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## laserbrn (Dec 11, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I'm all loaded up on nutes. I went with GH nutrients.
> 
> I'm using all Ionic Nutriets in my other grow, and they seems to work okay. Not every plant is super excited about them, but they are growing just fine. I just think I'm ready for something a little more advanced.
> 
> ...


I use the pyrethron foggers in my grow room. I've never had problems w/ bugs since using it. It's nasty shit, but I use it once during veg and once during the first week of flower to make sure that I don't have problems during the coming weeks when my buds are forming. Has worked thus far.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 11, 2009)

I have been looking at Pyreth-It https://www.jollygreenhydro.com/onlinestore/product.php?productid=16390

About a year ago I bought a small vial of concentrated Pyrethium off ebay. That worked VERY well on spider mites. They were everywhere and the dual bombs that the hydro guy kept selling me sucked. This stuff is the same thing only maybe not as dangerous to me. I can add this stuff to the res so thats better than spraying or fogging.

I tried foggers and I didn't like what they did to the plants. They left little burn spots everywhere. The plants always looked like shit for about 2 weeks after I fogged. Maybe I didn't do it right, but it seems hard to screw up. Lighting off a fogger in my tent would leave a nasty film everywhere. I would only do that as a last resort.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 11, 2009)

Rubber, the best preventive medicine is really keep things clean and sterile in there.

That being said, when I see too many fungus gnats for my liking, I spray them with a bottle of $5 organic insecticide/miticide/fungicide from WalMart, and it seems to do the trick every time.

I also bought SM-90 just in case I might ever have a "real problem", but (knock on wood) that hasn't happened yet.

Tried to find one of my pics of it, but they're hidden somewhere - if you go to my journal in the first post, there's a pic of it like four or five pics down, if memory serves.

BTW, finished the tent, posting pics now.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 12, 2009)

Cleaned and refilled the reservior last night. It took about 15 minutes to pump the old nutes into the kitchen sink. Then I unplugged all of the equipment and took the barrel out back. Scrubbed it with bleach and rinsed it 4 or 5 times. I set it all back up and turned on the RO . . . 6 hours to fill 40 gallons. Then I added the nutrients.

Fresh water started at:
6.50 Ph
10 ppm

I added:
500 ml FloraGro
300 ml FloraMicro
100 ml FloraBloom
40 ml Floralicious Plus
400 ml FloraBlend
120 ml SM-90
200 ml Pro-Silicate

This brought it to 1150 ppm & 6.50 ph. I didn't know how stable the ph was going to be so I did not adjust it last night. I ran the water cycle one time before Light's Out and changed the watering cycle to once every 3 hours. That may be too often? I will keep an eye on it over the next couple days and I may go to every 4 hrs. The ph was stable at 6.50 when I got up this morning so I brought it down to 6.00. I will monitor that too.

What is the perfect ph level? They always give you a range of 6.5 - 5.5 or something like that, but what is THE perfect ph to aim at?

I also foliar sprayed SM-90 twice. It left some shiny spots, but that's to be expected when you're spraying an oil. If it doesn't do something noticable I probably won't be doing it too often. Here is a pic. I will have to tie the bigger ones again today or tomorrow.







What do you think?


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## smokingrubber (Dec 14, 2009)

I have been giving serious thought to the next phase of construction and automation. I am not convinced that a Sentinal is the best way to go. Have any of you used this controller? http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4534.html

It's expensive, but if it does what it says then it would seem like a no-brainer. I found it for 1200. I'm getting a fatty check soon so my $ worries will be gone. It looks like I could spend another 3k on environmental controls in this round. I think it's worth it if you read the testimonials: http://www.harvest-master.com/casestudies.html But those are testimonials on THIER website so who knows how reliable they are. I definately need a dehimidifier and an AC so those are not really extra items. This would just be the best way to control it all.

That's a lot of machine to control a 4x4 tent, but I can upgrade the tent next year and transfer all the controls into that. I'm thinking a 4x8 would be perfect?


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## Bob Smith (Dec 14, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I have been giving serious thought to the next phase of construction and automation. I am not convinced that a Sentinal is the best way to go. Have any of you used this controller? http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4534.html
> 
> It's expensive, but if it does what it says then it would seem like a no-brainer. I found it for 1200. I'm getting a fatty check soon so my $ worries will be gone. It looks like I could spend another 3k on environmental controls in this round. I think it's worth it if you read the testimonials: http://www.harvest-master.com/casestudies.html But those are testimonials on THIER website so who knows how reliable they are. I definately need a dehimidifier and an AC so those are not really extra items. This would just be the best way to control it all.
> 
> That's a lot of machine to control a 4x4 tent, but I can upgrade the tent next year and transfer all the controls into that. I'm thinking a 4x8 would be perfect?


Lol..........I'm also buying all my stuff with the expectation of moving into a 4x8 tent sooner rather then later.

As far as the atmospheric controller goes, what exactly does that do that a Sentinel doesn't? Looks like it might have the "dual" cooling settings that we were talking about in my thread, but that can be fixed by buying that $35 Amazon.com thermostat - if that's the only different, the $510 + $35 Sentinel seems like a much better deal then that one for $1200, no? Unless I'm missing something else.......

BTW, plants look great man.

EDIT: If you're getting an AC to run in the tent, then you don't need a dehumidifier..............the AC will remove more water by itself, and on days when it's not hot enough to have the AC running, you can just set it to dehumidify.

Also, post a link of anything on here before you buy it - for atmospheric controllers, you need to make sure that they have a "restore" function which will start them up again as soon as they get power, as most newer models are electronic and need to be manually restarted after losing power, which makes them worthless for atmospheric controllers.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 14, 2009)

I just got my ELECTRIC BILL  ... $168 ... up from $40 last month  sonofa . . . !


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## smokingrubber (Dec 14, 2009)

The controller is a "learning" controller. It learns what your system does and makes everything perfect. It also has the ability to speed up the harvest time by several WEEKS. At least it says it has that ability!

Read the links I included. The thing is pretty incredible if it does what it says it does. It does a LOT more than the sentinal imo.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 14, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> The controller is a "learning" controller. It learns what your system does and makes everything perfect. It also has the ability to speed up the harvest time by several WEEKS. At least it says it has that ability!
> 
> Read the links I included. The thing is pretty incredible if it does what it says it does. It does a LOT more than the sentinal imo.


Read it, it's hogwash.

It can't do anything that you can't do with a Sentinel (sometimes with a minor modification or buying a $35 thermostat or $10 timer).

The gist is that going to an 18 hour day with 14 hours on and 4 hours off for veg at 2000PPMs of CO2 is what quickened his harvest time - you can do that with a timer for the lights and a Sentinel.

I mean, it's your call, but that extra $700 could be better used, IMHO.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 14, 2009)

Yeah, I'm inclined to disregard the improved cycle time claims. I mean, that would be nice . . . but I don't really buy it cuz we WOULD HAVE HEARD ABOUT IT BEFORE NOW! But hey, most growers that have finished their grow rooms and KNOW what they're doing . . . they don't sit around and share their knowledge on these forums.

Still, I like the idea of it learning how my space can be controlled and adapting to it. Sentinal doesn't claim to do that. It shuts the fans off when the Co2 is on, that's about it.

Like you, once I'm stuck on an item it's hard to peel me off. My check won't be here for another 2 weeks so I've got time to investigate everything. I figure, if the thing were a piece of crap I would find them littering ebay. They're not. I will keep looking for people that are using them real-world.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 14, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Yeah, I'm inclined to disregard the improved cycle time claims. I mean, that would be nice . . . but I don't really buy it cuz we WOULD HAVE HEARD ABOUT IT BEFORE NOW! But hey, most growers that have finished their grow rooms and KNOW what they're doing . . . they don't sit around and share their knowledge on these forums.
> 
> Still, I like the idea of it learning how my space can be controlled and adapting to it. Sentinal doesn't claim to do that. It shuts the fans off when the Co2 is on, that's about it.
> 
> Like you, once I'm stuck on an item it's hard to peel me off. My check won't be here for another 2 weeks so I've got time to investigate everything. I figure, if the thing were a piece of crap I would find them littering ebay. They're not. I will keep looking for people that are using them real-world.


Meh, I could get "peeled off" of that one pretty quick - sounds like snake oil.

Give me a hard and fast example of how that "learns and adapts" to a space, and I might change my mind.

IMHO, atmospheric controllers are there to help you stay within a temp/humidity/CO2 level that you desire (which the Sentinel does, very, very well), not to tell me what the best levels are - I've got RIU and my eyes for that.

Anyways, in case you haven't figured it out, I'm quite skeptical about it.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 14, 2009)

That's good! Go ahead and shoot holes in it cuz I don't have 1200 burning a hole in my pocket or anything. I just want the best long-term option and I don't want to spend 500 on a sentinal then realize something better was available. Also, I'm hoping that this controller doesn't make me go through 20lbs of Co2 every week. I want a controlled environment, just like you do. Since I'm not an expert at knowing and diagnosing the "perfect" temp/RH/Co2 combination levels at various stages of growth. . . it would help if a computer could do it for me. Seems like an Environmental Controller for Dummies (with too much $). Certainly COULD be worth the extra 700.

Retail on the fucker is 1600! I thought I found a deal!


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## Bob Smith (Dec 14, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> That's good! Go ahead and shoot holes in it cuz I don't have 1200 burning a hole in my pocket or anything. I just want the best long-term option and I don't want to spend 500 on a sentinal then realize something better was available. Also, I'm hoping that this controller doesn't make me go through 20lbs of Co2 every week. I want a controlled environment, just like you do. Since I'm not an expert at knowing and diagnosing the "perfect" temp/RH/Co2 combination levels at various stages of growth. . . it would help if a computer could do it for me. Seems like an Environmental Controller for Dummies (with too much $). Certainly COULD be worth the extra 700.
> 
> Retail on the fucker is 1600! I thought I found a deal!


Just think, you can either get that controller, or you can get a Sentinel with a Hydrogen and a 1K HPS.

No brainer, to me, but I'd be curious to hear what other people's thoughts are.

And as far as the "perfect" environment, 80F with 50-60% humidity and 1500PPMs of CO2 are good for vegging, and just take the humidity down for flower.

There you go, perfect 

Don't need to spend an additional $700 for a box to tell me (or you) what we already know...........don't waste your money, man.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 14, 2009)

If it's worthless I can resell it for almost full price on ebay  I'd love to talk to people that are using it already. I've got a couple weeks to do more research. I'm still leaning toward purchasing it though.

Imagine the fun I could have with fast crop-cycles every 5 or 6 weeks  Not that I would go to that straight away, but after awhile it would be interesting to play with.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 14, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> If it's worthless I can resell it for almost full price on ebay  I'd love to talk to people that are using it already. I've got a couple weeks to do more research. I'm still leaning toward purchasing it though.
> 
> Imagine the fun I could have with fast crop-cycles every 5 or 6 weeks  Not that I would go to that straight away, but after awhile it would be interesting to play with.


I'll let someone else comment and verify for you, but there's no box that makes plants grow faster - we can give them the perfect environment (which a Sentinel does), and then it's on them.

The rest of that is marketing hype - but, do your research, and let me (us) know what you find out.

EDIT: BTW, the only way to not go through a bottle of CO2 per week is to lower the PPM setpoint or to get a generator - there's no other options.


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## laserbrn (Dec 14, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> I'll let someone else comment and verify for you, but there's no box that makes plants grow faster - we can give them the perfect environment (which a Sentinel does), and then it's on them.
> 
> The rest of that is marketing hype - but, do your research, and let me (us) know what you find out.
> 
> EDIT: BTW, the only way to not go through a bottle of CO2 per week is to lower the PPM setpoint or to get a generator - there's no other options.


I've been refraining from commenting. But it does sound like you're just TRYING to throw money at this box to make it a "superbox" and I don't think you're going to ever see the ROI on the cash your willing to lay out. 

You can't make the plants grow and flower in 6 weeks. The plants take as long to flower as they take, you can't speed it up. Having a "perfect" environment will only get you so far, this isn't a science experiment, it's just growing plants.

You want bigger buds? You want higher yields? The game is: "How much light can I pack into as large a space as I can have and MAINTAIN a good environment?"

There isn't a secret way around it, you need more plants, more space, and more light to grow more bud. Don't waste your money chasing dreams.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 14, 2009)

So far, I'm not real impressed with their availablity and accessability. Their website shows an address that comes up as a strip mall in Carson City. Their phone number is answered by a receptionist that claims everyone is in a meeting... but they have 24/7 phone support? Someone is going to call me back in a few minutes and I plan to get to the bottom of this.

I also found a thread on another forum where this guy was waiting for his unit to arrive. He said someone warned him about faulty wiring . . . and his shit fried as soon as he plugged it in. This was back in '07 though. If it were a real problem now, I would have found complaints about it I'm sure. Still, it doesn't appear to be the kind of business that sells a lot of product and spends a ton on R&D. Damnit.

EDIT: I am purposefully NOT including the name of the company or the name of the product in these posts because I don't want every future google search leading people here, where I have no solid facts or information to provide.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 14, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> So far, I'm not real impressed with their availablity and accessability. Their website shows an address that comes up as a strip mall in Carson City. Their phone number is answered by a receptionist that claims everyone is in a meeting... but they have 24/7 phone support? Someone is going to call me back in a few minutes and I plan to get to the bottom of this.
> 
> I also found a thread on another forum where this guy was waiting for his unit to arrive. He said someone warned him about faulty wiring . . . and his shit fried as soon as he plugged it in. This was back in '07 though. If it were a real problem now, I would have found complaints about it I'm sure. Still, it doesn't appear to be the kind of business that sells a lot of product and spends a ton on R&D. Damnit.
> 
> EDIT: I am purposefully NOT including the name of the company or the name of the product in these posts because I don't want every future google search leading people here, where I have no solid facts or information to provide.


So, to recap:

1) Both Laser and me have affirmed that plants can only grow as fast as nature allows, and that providing the proper environment is the only way for them to reach their full potential

2) This product had issues back in 2007, which may or may not have been fixed

3) They are hard to reach and don't seem to have great customer support

4) It costs $700 more then the Sentinel

5) The Sentinel has countless great reviews from almost everyone who's ever used it, including yours truly

6) Besides the snake oil claim of artificial intelligence making your plants grow at a physically impossible rate, there's no difference between the two units

Does that about sum it up? 

C'mon dude, just trust us and save your money............


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## smokingrubber (Dec 14, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> I've been refraining from commenting. But it does sound like you're just TRYING to throw money at this box to make it a "superbox" and I don't think you're going to ever see the ROI on the cash your willing to lay out.
> 
> You can't make the plants grow and flower in 6 weeks. The plants take as long to flower as they take, you can't speed it up. Having a "perfect" environment will only get you so far, this isn't a science experiment, it's just growing plants.
> 
> ...


I'm not "trying" to throw money at it. Im trying NOT to! This is a product that SHOULD be available. The Sentinal should be able to do everything this thing does. Why is this the only company out there that provides enough sensors and outputs to control everything that needs to be controlled? This is a product that should be available with a computerized interface at half this price. This is almost 2010 and everything should be computer controlled by now imo. . . especially with all the money we like to throw at these grows.

If the thing does what it claims, it's worth the $. I need a demonstation first though.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 14, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I'm not "trying" to throw money at it. Im trying NOT to! This is a product that SHOULD be available. The Sentinal should be able to do everything this thing does. Why is this the only company out there that provides enough sensors and outputs to control everything that needs to be controlled? This is a product that should be available with a computerized interface at half this price. This is almost 2010 and everything should be computer controlled by now imo. . . especially with all the money we like to throw at these grows.
> 
> If the thing does what it claims, it's worth the $. I need a demonstation first though.


The Sentinel with a $10 timer for your lights and a $35 thermostat for your lightcooling fan does everything this does.

I actually wouldn't even use a light timer if the Sentinel had it - with everything else it controls, it would trip a circuit - need to have the dehumidifer and heater on their own circuits separate from the 1K.

In fact, I'd imagine you'd need to buy a relay to be able to operate everything from that, unless you have a dedicated 40 amp breaker in there (which still wouldn't handle everything when you upgrade to an 8x4 with two 1Ks).

All right, I've said my piece, whatever you decide is what you decide.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 14, 2009)

I know I know. It's looking more and more iffy the farther I dig. I DO want the perfect controller to create the perfect room environment and they're playing to my desires. I don't want to spend that much dough on the friggin thing but I want ... I want ... I want.

Well I've got 2 weeks to chew on it some more. Not in a big hurry and I'm glad I'm doing some homework. Thanks for your opinion, it DOES help. Honestly, there is not much info / reviews available on the Sentinal either. Its all a big crap-shoot.


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## laserbrn (Dec 14, 2009)

If you had a 15x15 you were growin in then the sentinel would be a worthwhile investment. I didn't read back through the thread, but did this start with just wanting the Co2 controller? Are you looking at a Sentinel CHHC-1? My buddy has one of these and it works awesome. It doesn't claim to suck your dick when you turn it on like the one you are looking at, but wild claims are easy to make.

It does exactly what it says it does, you program the timers for the lights, you set all your environmental variables and it voila, it takes care of it for you. I believe it has the built in "Anti-Cook" that the sentinel light timers have so if something goes wrong and your "cooling device" stops working and the temp keeps rising it'll shut the lights off to get the room to cool back down. 

THAT is the only reason I would purchase the Sentinel even. It hurts when 13 weeks of work goes down the toilet because a fuckin' fan died while you were away. Co2 is nice, but it's expensive and annoying to fill so I don't bother with it. The time it would take, the attention it would attract and the cost have always made me feel it would take to long to b worthwhile.

Again....15x15 sealed room, yeah I'm gonna run the sit. My 4x4 tent? A little silly.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 14, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> If you had a 15x15 you were growin in then the sentinel would be a worthwhile investment. I didn't read back through the thread, but did this start with just wanting the Co2 controller? Are you looking at a Sentinel CHHC-1? My buddy has one of these and it works awesome. It doesn't claim to suck your dick when you turn it on like the one you are looking at, but wild claims are easy to make.
> 
> It does exactly what it says it does, you program the timers for the lights, you set all your environmental variables and it voila, it takes care of it for you. I believe it has the built in "Anti-Cook" that the sentinel light timers have so if something goes wrong and your "cooling device" stops working and the temp keeps rising it'll shut the lights off to get the room to cool back down.
> 
> ...


I couldn't disagree more with it being "silly" to have a Sentinel in a 4x4 tent - it's a one-time $500 investment (the cost of a good light) that ensures a perfect growing environment, as well as a safeguard against things breaking, etc. - pays for itself with the first 1/8 of a decent harvest.

My best investment thus far (without a doubt), and I've bought lots of stuff.


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## laserbrn (Dec 14, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> I couldn't disagree more with it being "silly" to have a Sentinel in a 4x4 tent - it's a one-time $500 investment (the cost of a good light) that ensures a perfect growing environment, as well as a safeguard against things breaking, etc. - pays for itself with the first 1/8 of a decent harvest.
> 
> My best investment thus far (without a doubt), and I've bought lots of stuff.


The sentinel isn't silly if you are going to run co2. I don't think running co2 is silly for everyone, but for me it's silly. I have a source of fresh air and the added expenses and hassle of co2 will definitely cost you more than the initial cost of the co2.

Having another task to complete weekly means spending my time to go get tanks refilled. Lugging tanks back and forth up the stairs to my apartment complex could easily make a neihbor say "that's like the 3rd time I've seen him with those tanks, what's he doin' in there?". So for most people with a 4x4 tent, co2, the controllers and ALL of the added expense and time are not worth it.

Would've been easier to just get another tent and grow twice as many plants and the advantages are greater.

But I'm not knockin' it. I understand WHY other people do it, it's just for me it's too much.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 14, 2009)

Definately a little silly, but I do plan on using all this crap in the larger tent next year. I know everything will be fine if I just set up an AC and a dehumidifier, and Im still not completely sold on getting Co2 since I've seen many grows without it that came out spectacular. Like I said, I've got a while to chew on all my options.

EDIT: Im planning it now because I will have all the money to finish everything off. I want to do it all right and I don't want to regret going cheap. I'm definately getting a digital ballast and an AC. Everything else is up for review.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 14, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> The sentinel isn't silly if you are going to run co2. I don't think running co2 is silly for everyone, but for me it's silly. I have a source of fresh air and the added expenses and hassle of co2 will definitely cost you more than the initial cost of the co2.
> 
> Having another task to complete weekly means spending my time to go get tanks refilled. Lugging tanks back and forth up the stairs to my apartment complex could easily make a neihbor say "that's like the 3rd time I've seen him with those tanks, what's he doin' in there?". So for most people with a 4x4 tent, co2, the controllers and ALL of the added expense and time are not worth it.
> 
> ...


Agreed regarding the tanks - have filled my three tanks twice and am already over sneaking around in the dark with the tanks wrapped in towels to hide them from the neighbors - have a CO2 generator being delivered tomorrow, as a matter of fact.

Nothing shady about getting tanks of propane filled (besides the fact that one tank will last me a few months, as opposed to the week that a 20lb. CO2 tank lasts me).

Just gotta remember to use the barbecue a little more


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## laserbrn (Dec 14, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Agreed regarding the tanks - have filled my three tanks twice and am already over sneaking around in the dark with the tanks wrapped in towels to hide them from the neighbors - have a CO2 generator being delivered tomorrow, as a matter of fact.
> 
> Nothing shady about getting tanks of propane filled (besides the fact that one tank will last me a few months, as opposed to the week that a 20lb. CO2 tank lasts me).
> 
> Just gotta remember to use the barbecue a little more


Right? If I had come up on the $1500 to purchase the crazy evironmental controller (not the sentinel, I actually think those are pretty sweet at the $550ish price) I would go ahead and purchase another tent, another light and hookup the sentinel. Could do it all for $1500 bucks. Use the 4x4 for veg and get a 4x4 for flower or a 4x8 (I don't know what you can fit). Same price and Co2 ain't gonna DOUBLE your yeild like more space and lights will.

THAT's why I say it's a little silly. Once you are using AS MUCH space as you can I would add Co2 as the next step. That's all.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 14, 2009)

I personally can't upgrade the tent until I move. I'm locked into my current lease until March. I figured I could dial in the little tent then push everything into a larger tent for very minimal cost later on. Plus, adding more space doubles a lot of things . . . the lights, hoods, ballasts, fans, pots and the smell. I've got to be sure I can control the situation I've got before I try to go big. I still haven't gotten a crop out of this setup yet, so I need to take a deep breath here.


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## laserbrn (Dec 14, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I personally can't upgrade the tent until I move. I'm locked into my current lease until March. I figured I could dial in the little tent then push everything into a larger tent for very minimal cost later on. Plus, adding more space doubles a lot of things . . . the lights, hoods, ballasts, fans, pots and the smell. I've got to be sure I can control the situation I've got before I try to go big. I still haven't gotten a crop out of this setup yet, so I need to take a deep breath here.


Then that's what I would do...take a breath. Dont' go blow $1500 because you have it. Just a get a grow out of this one and then worry about all Especially if you have until March before you plan an upgrade...just get this grow done, take some clones and get some practice at doing that, grow out that batch from clones and you'll have the knowledge about EXACTLY what you want and what you need. This hobby will suck the living money out of you so seeking ways to spend it can be dangerous. Are you going to eventually run in a sealed environment that would necessitate the equipment? That's really where those things shine.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 15, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Then that's what I would do...take a breath. Dont' go blow $1500 because you have it. Just a get a grow out of this one and then worry about all Especially if you have until March before you plan an upgrade...just get this grow done, take some clones and get some practice at doing that, grow out that batch from clones and you'll have the knowledge about EXACTLY what you want and what you need. This hobby will suck the living money out of you so seeking ways to spend it can be dangerous. Are you going to eventually run in a sealed environment that would necessitate the equipment? That's really where those things shine.


Solid advise. I am a little impatient at times . Last night I found a way to squeeze a 4x8 into my garage. I've been dreaming of the possibilities all night. But after going back and forth over it, I'm back to ... taking a breath. There are pros and cons for going bigger right now, but I'm thinking I should ride this 4x4 for a cycle or 2 then bounce. It's just hard to know that I could throw another k at the room and DOUBLE the size and output. Thats a lot of pot to leave on the table! I could . . ...see there I go again.

As of now, my plan is to fully upgrade the 4x4 on everything except Co2. I will suck in fresh air off a roof vent and pump it into the tent through a hepa filter. That should provide plenty of Co2 to do the job if everything else is done right. Upgrading to Co2 can still be done later but it's not very kosher in the condo.

By upgrading everything I only mean new ballast and new fans. My current fan is 180 watts and I'm only running it on 40%, but it still seems to be drawing a fatty off the power meter. So I want to swap that out for 2 lower cfm 6" that only use 70 watts each. I won't need the dimmer box so that will make the fans quieter. Going with a digital ballast is obvious. I need the quiet and I want the efficiency.

I still want the controller that handles 8 devices, but I can get an add-on for Co2 later. That'll save a grip. Then I'll get the AC, dehumidifier, and a flock of fans. Viola.

Side note: Why doesn't someone make a portable AC/Dehumidifier/Heater that can be used by a controller? Is it only me who wants one of those?


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## Bob Smith (Dec 15, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Solid advise. I am a little impatient at times . Last night I found a way to squeeze a 4x8 into my garage. I've been dreaming of the possibilities all night. But after going back and forth over it, I'm back to ... taking a breath. There are pros and cons for going bigger right now, but I'm thinking I should ride this 4x4 for a cycle or 2 then bounce. It's just hard to know that I could throw another k at the room and DOUBLE the size and output. Thats a lot of pot to leave on the table! I could . . ...see there I go again.
> 
> As of now, my plan is to fully upgrade the 4x4 on everything except Co2. I will suck in fresh air off a roof vent and pump it into the tent through a hepa filter. That should provide plenty of Co2 to do the job if everything else is done right. Upgrading to Co2 can still be done later but it's not very kosher in the condo.
> 
> ...


They do, there's plenty of them - you just need an old school one with the knobs instead of a newer electronically controlled one, or a new one with an auto-restart function.

Here's one, but you can find them by doing a Google search for "portable air conditioner auto restart".

http://www.allergybuyersclubshopping.com/pe210r32-portable-air-conditioners.html?show=UP&itemId=1671


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## smokingrubber (Dec 15, 2009)

sweet! been looking but didn't think to add "auto restart" I found this, it looks good:
http://www.qualitymatters.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=QMARC%2D10D
$300 is a great deal on something I'm budgeting $500 for  My point is, it's too bad I've got to buy a seperate dehumidifier. I'm rapidly running out of room in my tiny tent.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 15, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> sweet! been looking but didn't think to add "auto restart" I found this, it looks good:
> http://www.qualitymatters.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=QMARC-10D
> $300 is a great deal on something I'm budgeting $500 for  My point is, it's too bad I've got to buy a seperate dehumidifier. I'm rapidly running out of room in my tiny tent.


No you don't - that has a dehumidifier mode on it.

"Three operational modes: Air Conditioner, fan or dehumidifier"

When you're running the AC, that will automatically dehumidify the air, and when it's winter, you can just set it to dehumidify - that right there will do all that you need.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 15, 2009)

But the functions can't be controlled by the EC (environmental controller). It's great that it does all those things, but it would be better if I could run each seperately. I know I'm being picky but it seems obvious to me. There should be at least ONE mfg out there that can cater to the growers in the world.

My plants have been growing wonderfully. They're growing "out" way more than growing "up". So I raised the hood 12" a couple days ago and I REALLY like the results so far. I've gone in and retied all of the stalks. Almost all of them are about to turn the corner and BH#1 already has. Gangbusters!


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## laserbrn (Dec 15, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> But the functions can't be controlled by the EC (environmental controller). It's great that it does all those things, but it would be better if I could run each seperately. I know I'm being picky but it seems obvious to me. There should be at least ONE mfg out there that can cater to the growers in the world.
> 
> My plants have been growing wonderfully. They're growing "out" way more than growing "up". So I raised the hood 12" a couple days ago and I REALLY like the results so far. I've gone in and retied all of the stalks. Almost all of them are about to turn the corner and BH#1 already has. Gangbusters!


I understand wanting all of that, it's just so unnecessary. Measure your environment before going to those lengths. Do you have a humidity problem?


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## smokingrubber (Dec 15, 2009)

No humidity problems now, but they're still vegging and it's cold out. I don't need the AC now either, but I don't want to get to that point. I want both pieces of equipment in the tent and preferrably ones that stack on top of each other (less floor space). I'm mostly just surprised that these pieces of advanced technology aren't already available.

Amazingly, the same AC unit highlighted in all of the grow mags can't be ECed. And they only highlight ONE model? Still hunting for the perfect model, but so far the one above is the best due to a very small footprint, low price, and auto-restart.


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## laserbrn (Dec 15, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> No humidity problems now, but they're still vegging and it's cold out. I don't need the AC now either, but I don't want to get to that point. I want both pieces of equipment in the tent and preferrably ones that stack on top of each other (less floor space). I'm mostly just surprised that these pieces of advanced technology aren't already available.
> 
> Amazingly, the same AC unit highlighted in all of the grow mags can't be ECed. And they only highlight ONE model? Still hunting for the perfect model, but so far the one above is the best due to a very small footprint, low price, and auto-restart.


I've been through all of that and I'm not home right now to see what model mine is, but it autostarts. I'm retiring it though. You want to see your electric bill go up? Turn that summumma bitch on. Complete kills it for me so I don't bother anymore. I'm only running 3/4 of the year nowadays and I'm gonna bang out as much ganja as I can while the gettin' is good and the air is cold.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 15, 2009)

Thankfully it's typically nice around here and that will help tame the AC bill. My bill is already too frickn bloated. That's another arguement for going to a larger tent cuz same eqiupment can pop out 2x more bud. Still chewin on that... a little.


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## laserbrn (Dec 15, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Thankfully it's typically nice around here and that will help tame the AC bill. My bill is already too frickn bloated. That's another arguement for going to a larger tent cuz same eqiupment can pop out 2x more bud. Still chewin on that... a little.


Now you're getting the idea. I'm going to convert my 3x8 space into another flower area for the winter. So I'm going to go from 1x 600w for flower to 3x 600w for flower. Then when summer comes, I'll convert it to my weed storage facility and smoke it all up till winter comes around again. 

My electric bills in the summer topped $500.00 because of the AC and the equipment. The electric companies charge so much now with the 'tiered' system they have in place.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 15, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Now you're getting the idea. I'm going to convert my 3x8 space into another flower area for the winter. So I'm going to go from 1x 600w for flower to 3x 600w for flower. Then when summer comes, I'll convert it to my weed storage facility and smoke it all up till winter comes around again.
> 
> My electric bills in the summer topped $500.00 because of the AC and the equipment. The electric companies charge so much now with the 'tiered' system they have in place.


Yeah, you California boys are lucky in that you have dispensaries and great weather all the time and it's legal to grow, but the electric bills I hear about coming from that state are monstrous.


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## raulhawkins718 (Dec 15, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Now you're getting the idea. I'm going to convert my 3x8 space into another flower area for the winter. So I'm going to go from 1x 600w for flower to 3x 600w for flower. Then when summer comes, I'll convert it to my weed storage facility and smoke it all up till winter comes around again.
> 
> My electric bills in the summer topped $500.00 because of the AC and the equipment. The electric companies charge so much now with the 'tiered' system they have in place.


yeah thats insane....i'ld look into getting some solar panels....might be worth it in the long run


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## smokingrubber (Dec 15, 2009)

$500? That would knock me back for a minute too. Just got mine and it was less than 200 ... for now.

I GOT THE FREAKIN CLONES! I was supposed to go over sunday but I figured a couple more days couldn't hurt. I originally planned to get 6 and toss out 2 I already had going ... but screw that! These little fuckers are WAAAAY behind (3 weeks). So I got 5 (1 extra) to fill out 4 pots.












So now what? They are all 5 Grand Daddy Purp  They've been soaking in a shallow tray of clonex for exactly 6 days. Should I cover them? I'm putting them on 18/6 lighting. I will foliar spray but I think I want the rockwool to dry out a bit. Its soaked. When I see roots, I will transfer into larger rockwool. What else should I do?


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## smokingrubber (Dec 16, 2009)

I domed them overnight but they appear about the same. I've sprayed twice just for a little foliar humidity. Other than that, what else to do but watch and wait?






Here is a quick shot of the girls. My camera is at work so I snapped this off my phone. Day 21 veg.


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## laserbrn (Dec 16, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I domed them overnight but they appear about the same. I've sprayed twice just for a little foliar humidity. Other than that, what else to do but watch and wait?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Plants look good, mean and green.

Did you say the clones were rooted already? Once they pop out about 5 roots you should just transplant them and get them ready in their final homes. If you are still waiting for roots to pop out you should leave the dome on and forget about them for a couple of days.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 16, 2009)

Still waiting on roots to pop. I didn't turn them ALL over and look yet, but I will when I get home.


So here is my lastest plan to conquer the world (of weeeed): 

1. upgrade to a 4x8 asap
2. upgrade/change to 600w dual digitals
3. upgrade intake & exhaust fans to dual 6" 300cfm (appropriate cfm for 4x8 tent)
4. TWELVE more pots 
5. AC / Dehumidifier combo 10000btu

I am going to hold off on the EC for now. Hopefully I can set the AC to handle the top end heat and humididty problems and just let her go. With 300cfm for intake AND exhaust the room is completely air swapped in less than a minute anyway so what effect will the AC have? Seems like I'll be pretty dependant on outside air to control my temps.

So my W.D. (World Domination) equipment won't arrive till after the first of the year. That gives me about 3 more weeks to veg and train (lst) the girls. It will be far too late to start 12 more and veg them along side the others. By then, I will have 8 LSTed big girls and 4 three-week old clones. I will space them out in the 4x8 and flower them under the dual 600 hps. Since they're LSTed they should fluff out nicely and take up much of the available space in the first couple weeks of flower. Double the space probably won't mean double the bud this time around. It won't hurt though! Next time will be better planned.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 16, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Still waiting on roots to pop. I didn't turn them ALL over and look yet, but I will when I get home.
> 
> 
> So here is my lastest plan to conquer the world (of weeeed):
> ...


Quite the ambitious plan, and that shopping list looks quite similar to mine 

The only recommendations I would make would be to have two 1Ks in there as opposed to two 600s - if you can handle the heat (which you can with an AC), then going to a bigger light is a no-brainer - denser nugs, better canopy penetration, etc. - the only downside is the electric cost (which will more then pay for itself many times over after your first harvest).

The other recommendation I would make is to make sure that your exhaust fan has a (fairly) significantly higher rating then your intake fan - remember, your exhaust has to pull/push through a filter, and that's in addition to the negative pressure that you'd like to create with both fans running.

In my 4x4 tent, my exhaust is 435CFM (pulling through a pretty big filter) and my intake is 170CFM, and that works out pretty well - might use the same system in my 4x8, as it's somewhat overkill in my 4x4.

Anyways, just my $.02.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 16, 2009)

DUAL 1000w?  hmmmm .... {slow evil laugh} yes . . . WORLD DOMINATION can not be complete with puny 600s! Screw the power meter!

... yer killin me 

I'm going to have to sit down and figure out all these amp loads. I don't want to buy a new power panel too. I thought 1200w, AC and 2 fans was pushing it.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 16, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> DUAL 1000w?  hmmmm .... {slow evil laugh} yes . . . WORLD DOMINATION can not be complete with puny 600s! Screw the power meter!
> 
> ... yer killin me
> 
> I'm going to have to sit down and figure out all these amp loads. I don't want to buy a new power panel too. I thought 1200w, AC and 2 fans was pushing it.


See, if you would've been paying attention to my thread, I had to break down all my tents and hide them in a spare bedroom while I paid an electrician $500 to give me 60 amps in my garage................muhahahhahahaha 

All about proper planning in this game (although if my planning was "truly" proper, I'd have thought of that before I even started).

Anyways Rubber, check out my thread when you get a chance - some cool shit going down these days.

Trying to run 144 plants for my next run, should be interesting to say the least.

Also fucking around with the generator today.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 16, 2009)

Oh I've been lurking! I haven't missed a minute.

I just wasn't planning to go this big in the condo. It's not too big of a deal though cuz my electrician already knows what im doing. It wouldn't be a big deal to have him come out but I might have to buy a bigger panel. I think this one is a 30amp. Those are not cheap either!


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## smokingrubber (Dec 16, 2009)

Maybe won't have to. Each 1000w 240v pulls 4.5A. That ain't too bad at all. The dual 600w only pulls 5.5A but screw the meter. My 30A panel should handle everything just fine. I will do some math though because the AC will pull about 10amp, and I think the whole thing is tied into a 20 amp circuit breaker outside. AND I have to run my dryer on that plug!


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## Bob Smith (Dec 16, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Maybe won't have to. Each 1000w 240v pulls 4.5A. That ain't too bad at all. The dual 600w only pulls 5.5A but screw the meter. My 30A panel should handle everything just fine. I will do some math though because the AC will pull about 10amp, and I think the whole thing is tied into a 20 amp circuit breaker outside. AND I have to run my dryer on that plug!


You can get a 240V AC that only pulls 5 amps.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 16, 2009)

That would sure help. I will look into that, thanks.


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## laserbrn (Dec 16, 2009)

Yeah, I wouldn't run dual 600's. I am assuming you are wanting to run 4 600w lamps then? That's just crazy, 2x 1000w would be wiser, although I think in a 4x8 I would try 3x600w in a line down the center and air cool them all in one string. That way you can get the lights down lower and using 1800w's vs 2000w(1kx2) you will get REALLY good coverage and plenty of penetration due to how low you can keep the lights (not as hot and the 3 seperate lamps will make coverage easier at lower heights).

You are definitely on the right track to growin' more bud for your dollar though. As far as the outside air controlling the temp of your room the way I got around that was to actually make the A/C my only intake. You don't need an intake fan if the A/C IS your intake. I put the A/C outside the room and "nigga rigged" it to accumulate all of the cold air down to one vent. I ran the vent into the room with a small inline fan on it. So now my intake air is cooled as it goes in. 

The problem I always had with that setup is getting an A/C that will allow a remote thermostat so your grow room temp kicks on the A/C condensor and leaves the fan running all the time. I have always done mine by temperature testing room based upon the temp outside. I know that on any day over 78 degrees I need to run the A/C or my canopy temperature will reach 85 degrees.

The good news? I run my flowering cycles at night and I veg with flouro's, that means that my plants sleep during the 12 daylight hours when temps are more likely to be over 78 degrees. So I only REALLY need the A/C when the temps are over 78 degrees AT NIGHT. Finally being able to do it this way opens up some many more doors. 

You've got options, just make sure you think it all through...it's fun isn't it?


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## smokingrubber (Dec 16, 2009)

Yes, it really is a lot of fun 

I was thinking of just two 600s. Everyone says they're equal to 1000w magnetics and I have NO problems with my 1000w now  I figured 2x600 would be the optimum? I like 2x1000w too though  Just gotta make sure I'm not going to start a fire.

I am running during the day because I know the plants appreciate the temperature drop at night and I like visiting them during the day. Right now my daytime tent temps are at about 72-78 and my night temps are about 60-65. The plants seem to enjoy it.

I will have to do something to create negative pressure. Maybe I'll knock the supply line down to 4" just before it comes into the tent. That may create enough of a flow difference.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 16, 2009)

I really like the idea of two 1000w digitals. 

*One big problem*: How do I plug in two 240v timer boxes? The first timer covers all the other plugs? Any ideas w/ links would help!


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

You could easily plug it into the two outlets above the timer, no?

Looks like there's plenty of room from where I stand..................and I'm probably gonna have some electrical questions for you in a minute, assuming you know something about your setup and what's going on in there.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

I need to plug in another timer though. It won't fit, and the first timer has a huge cable coming off the side almost covering all the 110v plugs.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

I can't find a 240v Y connecter. I can't find a relatively cheap dual 240v timer. It's looking like my Domination of the World will have to occur with dual 600s, just cuz they're all I can plug in.


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## laserbrn (Dec 17, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I can't find a 240v Y connecter. I can't find a relatively cheap dual 240v timer. It's looking like my Domination of the World will have to occur with dual 600s, just cuz they're all I can plug in.


Go with the dual 600's because you'll eventually want 3. What's the point of ruling the earth without the heavens?


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

My vote is obviously for dual 1Ks; simpler to setup and the buds will be denser.

Light coverage is not an issue with a 1K covering a 4x4 footprint with any decent reflector (even a cheap one will work).

Three reflectors would get real crowded real fast in an 8x4 tent, and you're still going to be lacking coverage on the perimeter because of the lessened light intensity.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> My vote is obviously for dual 1Ks; *simpler to setup* and the buds will be denser.


Dual 600's is WAY simpler to set up!

To set up dual 1000w:
1. Purchase two 1000w digital ballasts @ $400 ea = $800
2. Purchase industial dual 240v timer @ 250
Total = $1050

To set up dual 600w:
1. Purchase one dual 600w ballast @ 440
Total = $440

If I go with the 600s I can use the timer I've already got. If it wern't for the added cost of the dual timer, I would really like to go with the 1000w for light coverage.


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## laserbrn (Dec 17, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> My vote is obviously for dual 1Ks; simpler to setup and the buds will be denser.
> 
> Light coverage is not an issue with a 1K covering a 4x4 footprint with any decent reflector (even a cheap one will work).
> 
> Three reflectors would get real crowded real fast in an 8x4 tent, and you're still going to be lacking coverage on the perimeter because of the lessened light intensity.


Man you've lost your mind. You think you'll get better coverage and denser buds with 2x 1000w versus 3x 600w you're blowin' smoke instead of inhalin' it.

Your light intensity and coverage will be much improved with ultimately having 3 lights. 1800w's is also a nice number....but just for the sake of having fun with you I will point out that the average 1000w lamp puts out ~150,000 lumens while 600w lamps put out ~96,000 lumens.

Any way you slice it you're going to put out ~300,000 lumens except your 600's will be a solid 12" closer to the plants and spread more evenly.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

How can I plug in 3 600s? I'm not against it . . . I can't plug in 2 ballasts! The dual 600s are powered off 1 ballast. http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemdesc.asp?ic=HLBADILT06240D


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

I've got a built in timer on the power panel, but that turns off the 110v too (i think). It was really loud so I disconnected it, but I noticed that it claims to have a rechargeble battery and fuse in it so maybe I could fix it and it would be quiet? ...I don't know. 

Then I would *have* to run a seperate plug in for all the other crap. I'm probably going to do this anyway so that I can plug a 110v AC onto another circuit. (I don't want to spend extra 300 on a bigger 240v AC)


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Man you've lost your mind. You think you'll get better coverage and denser buds with 2x 1000w versus 3x 600w you're blowin' smoke instead of inhalin' it.
> 
> Your light intensity and coverage will be much improved with ultimately having 3 lights. 1800w's is also a nice number....but just for the sake of having fun with you I will point out that the average 1000w lamp puts out ~150,000 lumens while 600w lamps put out ~96,000 lumens.
> 
> Any way you slice it you're going to put out ~300,000 lumens except your 600's will be a solid 12" closer to the plants and spread more evenly.


I'm not going to get into a drawn out debate with you on this, but three 600s in a straight line down the middle of thee garden will not have enough light to the perimeter 6" on either side.

You yourself said that your 600 doesn't adequately cover a 4x4 footprint, but works great in a 3x3 - so in an 8x3 tray, they'd work great, but in an 8x4 setup, the 6" on either side will be getting less coverage.


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## laserbrn (Dec 17, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> How can I plug in 3 600s? I'm not against it . . . I can't plug in 2 ballasts! The dual 600s are powered off 1 ballast. http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemdesc.asp?ic=HLBADILT06240D


You would have to upgrade timers. Or run it on another circuit. The benefit is that you could run dual 600w's right now on the single ballast and add the other one later. You could run a short extension to another timer and have them set for the same time too.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

Short extensions are in short supply. I didn't find much of a selection online. Running another 240v line (or 110v line) into the garage may also be more than I'm willing to do right now. Remember, I am planning to move in about 6 months or so. Its a difficult ballance between "keep it simple" and conquer the world. (still need to pay the rent and buy my niece her xmas present too)

This is Phase II. 
Phase I: was the first 3k I spent, and that would be good enough to get the first harvest. 
Phase II: is kicking in a little sooner than i anticipated but it's the upgrade to a 4x8. 
Phase III: will come after I move and I'll have two 4x8 flower rooms and my 4x4 set up for mothers and clones.


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## laserbrn (Dec 17, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Short extensions are in short supply. I didn't find much of a selection online. Running another 240v line (or 110v line) into the garage may also be more than I'm willing to do right now. Remember, I am planning to move in about 6 months or so. Its a difficult ballance between "keep it simple" and conquer the world. (still need to pay the rent and buy my niece her xmas present too)
> 
> This is Phase II.
> Phase I: was the first 3k I spent, and that would be good enough to get the first harvest.
> ...


Then I would just get the dual 600w for now and upgrade to the third later. Seems like it's the simplest solution and you can upgrade when you move.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Then I would just get the dual 600w for now and upgrade to the third later. Seems like it's the simplest solution and you can upgrade when you move.


Cosign on that; if going to two 600s is that much easier and less expensive then two 1000s, then I agree with Laser.


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## laserbrn (Dec 17, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Cosign on that; if going to two 600s is that much easier and less expensive then two 1000s, then I agree with Laser.


It's a lot cheaper than going out and buying 2x 1000w lamps and ballasts and still having the timer problem. Go out and get the dual ballast and the lamp and a 1 reflector.

When you are ready to upgrade just add another hood and lamp and you're good to go. You already have the extra 600w ballast.

Slam dunk there...and you'll love the upgrade in ganja, believe that.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

laserbrn said:


> Then I would just get the dual 600w for now and upgrade to the third later. Seems like it's the simplest solution and you can upgrade when you move.


I agree. I would've really liked to go 1800w or 2000w, but the added costs rise dramatically. Bummer.

If they made a freakin Y splitter for 240v my problems would be solved. Three 600w hoods in a row would be fucking amazing imo. But two 600s seems to be the most cost effective and power effective route.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

I could use this: http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemdesc.asp?ic=HLLAILS4240&eq=TIIGSIILS4240&Tp=

? it sucks that I've got space to plug in 4 ballasts on my panel but cant use them cuz the timer is in the way. need a cheap timer on a leash. I could probably make my own short plugs, but the ends would total more $ than the panel above. grrrr

EDIT: I will call my electrician and ask him to take another look at the panel, and maybe he can fix the buzzzzzzz. That would beat spending $200 on a new panel.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> ..................and I'm probably gonna have some electrical questions for you in a minute, assuming you know something about your setup and what's going on in there.


I probably know enough ... how's the veg-majal looking?


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I probably know enough ... how's the veg-majal looking?


Looking good, it's a finished product at this point 

But as far as the electrical goes, I was wondering exactly what that box that you have in there does, and what value it adds?

I have three 20 amp circuits in my garage, and I'm going to be running ~14000BTU air conditioner on one, and then a 1K with my 400 on another, and then a 1K and all my pumps, fans, etc. on the third - was wondering if something like a relay switch or something else might allow me to control both 1Ks from one circuit, or if there was a product that I could buy to turn my 120V circuit into a 240V circuit and get two 240C 1Ks that would run on the same circuit.

Sorry for the lengthy questions, just trying to plan ahead (like you).

Thanks man.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

1000w digital ballasts (Lumatek) are 4.5 amps each. You COULD run a max of 4 of those on one 20 amp 240v circuit. That would be pushing it though. The link I posted above would allow 4 lights to be controlled by 1 timer.

All of your pumps and fans and crap will run on the 110v circuit - 15 amps would be more than enough. (everything except AC)

Does that help?

The "box" I added came with my original craigslist package. It allowed me to splice into my dryer plug and run that panel out to the grow. It was just a better way to have all of my crap on one panel without a bunch of extension cords. It has a biult-in timer that would have turned all of my lights for me. Unfortunately, the timer was making a loud buzz so I asked the electrician to bypass it. Now I will ask him to go in and fix the buzz and give me the timer back. We'll see how that works.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> 1000w digital ballasts (Lumatek) are 4.5 amps each. You COULD run a max of 4 of those on one 20 amp 240v circuit. That would be pushing it though. The link I posted above would allow 4 lights to be controlled by 1 timer.
> 
> All of your pumps and fans and crap will run on the 110v circuit - 15 amps would be more than enough. (everything except AC)
> 
> Does that help?


Kinda, but I clearly didn't ask my question correctly - what I was basically wondering was if there something (like the big old thing that you have for your electric) which I could plug in and wouldn't need an electrician for, which would let me use 240V in my garage which is only wired for 120V.

I'm such an asshole, the electrician even asked me if I wanted one of them to be 240V and I said "no".


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

To get 240v they simply run 2 120v together. So if you've got several 110 lines already, then yes you should be able to have 240. How to wire that exactly is something I would ask my electrician about. It's pretty easy to wire the boxes up though cuz it's 2 hots and 1 ground - no common. If you get the box brand new, I would hope it came with some instructions. 

If not, I've got an electrician I can ask. I've got to call him later today so I'll ask about that.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> To get 240v they simply run 2 120v together. So if you've got several 110 lines already, then yes you should be able to have 240. How to wire that exactly is something I would ask my electrician about. It's pretty easy to wire the boxes up though cuz it's 2 hots and 1 ground - no common. If you get the box brand new, I would hope it came with some instructions.
> 
> If not, I've got an electrician I can ask. I've got to call him later today so I'll ask about that.


Thanks, would appreciate that - if there's any wiring involved, it's probably a no-go, but I'd love to hear what his answer is anyways - perhaps he knows of something that could do what I need.

That being said, it's not "needed", as I have 60 amps in there, but it'd be nice.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

After seeing how easy it was to wire mine up I felt kinda stupid for not doing it myself. It's definately something I felt intimidated about, but I see it's really not rocket science to strip and connect 3 wires. As long as the juice is off and I have some instructions, I would do it myself next time.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

FUUUUUK!


It's been a few days since I tied them down (3 days) and I should have been more on it. Specially now cuz it's the main turn and if they get fat at all it's very hard to bend without breaking them. Didn't realize this till they got too fucking fat and I tried to bend it. I didn't even push very hard! But where I had the first string was pretty fat and it just popped like ripe fruit. No bend . . . no gradual flex . . . POP! Right in fucking half!







I didn't know what to do with her so I used a BUNCH of profanity and put her back in the tent. The broken piece was pretty large so I chopped off all the parts that had any chance of cloning and set them next to the GDP clones.







FUCK


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> FUUUUUK!
> 
> 
> It's been a few days since I tied them down (3 days) and I should have been more on it. Specially now cuz it's the main turn and if they get fat at all it's very hard to bend without breaking them. Didn't realize this till they got too fucking fat and I tried to bend it. I didn't even push very hard! But where I had the first string was pretty fat and it just popped like ripe fruit. No bend . . . no gradual flex . . . POP! Right in fucking half!
> ...


Did the plant snap right off, or was it just broken? In the future, if just broken, you can simply duct tape it back together and it will heal itself in a couple of days.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

It was 90% broken and dangling. Hanging by it's skin. Good to know about the duct tape, but the nodes are so close together I can't see that working in this case. I have 6 good limbs on her below the break and hopefully a clone or two. 

Victim: A-Train #1 

I looked in and noticed she had grown a lot so I wanted to get her tied down quickly. Shoulda started with the runt again! She's been my guiny pig at every step except today. WTF? ... Oh yeah, JUST got a new sack of kush and I was still working on the first after-work bowl . . . you know how that can get you twisted up. DAMN.


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## mugsby (Dec 17, 2009)

Fuck man, that sucks! I saw that something new was posted on the forum and ive been following this very closely trying to learn about growing, expecting to read about how your plants are doing great still, and i read this! sorry to hear this. good luck with the rest, though and with cloning it. will be watching you step by step. you jsut may not know it since i dont talk much  haha. peace


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

I had to be MUCH more careful with the rest. Used multiple ties to make it more gradual. Shouldnt have waited so long at the crucial bend period.


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## mugsby (Dec 17, 2009)

You make me feel more of a newbie than i even am. i dont even know what this "crucial bend period" iss. haha. more learning to do i guess!


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> It was 90% broken and dangling. Hanging by it's skin. Good to know about the duct tape, but the nodes are so close together I can't see that working in this case. I have 6 good limbs on her below the break and hopefully a clone or two.
> 
> Victim: A-Train #1
> 
> I looked in and noticed she had grown a lot so I wanted to get her tied down quickly. Shoulda started with the runt again! She's been my guiny pig at every step except today. WTF? ... Oh yeah, JUST got a new sack of kush and I was still working on the first after-work bowl . . . you know how that can get you twisted up. DAMN.


Hey Rubber, why not turn this negative into a positive?

Now you can decide for yourself which method is better for you, LST or topping.

You've basically topped that plant; I'd do it to one or two more, and LST the rest - take note of the differences between the two, and the yield differences.

Just an idea.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

If I had a clone machine right now I would probably do it. Since I don't, and my hope for these few is dim . . . can't do it. I'm not set up to take care of clones right now. I have a dome tray and a teeny 2ft T5. Tsit. Hosed. I don't even have a handheld ph meter to check on the distilled water I poured on the rockwool. I used a sterile razor and clone gel, but I didn't soak em, didn't use any Thrive or anything. I kinda panicked and I didn't really know what to do. I kept wishing I had a clone machine.

I do have two more A-Train going so I can compare the three.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

Found a timer  Problems solved.
http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=7291

I can't tell if it has the right connector on both ends.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 17, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> If I had a clone machine right now I would probably do it. Since I don't, and my hope for these few is dim . . . can't do it. I'm not set up to take care of clones right now. I have a dome tray and a teeny 2ft T5. Tsit. Hosed. I don't even have a handheld ph meter to check on the distilled water I poured on the rockwool. I used a sterile razor and clone gel, but I didn't soak em, didn't use any Thrive or anything. I kinda panicked and I didn't really know what to do. I kept wishing I had a clone machine.
> 
> I do have two more A-Train going so I can compare the three.


I think I might've been a little unclear - I'm saying, you can use two or three of your plants as "topped" plants and see what they yield vs. the plants that you LST - you can measure the yield vs. the extra work of LST and decide if it's worth it for you or not.

And as far as not having a clone machine, the clones you took in rockwool will be fine - whatsa matter with those?


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## smokingrubber (Dec 17, 2009)

Just worried cuz I didn't have the clonex pre-soak and I didn't ph the water. And most of the cuttings are tiny cuz of how tight the node spacing was.

So far, the LST is a pain in the ass but I'm still doing it cuz I'll need these plants to take up a large footprint after I space them out in the 4x8.

The timer I found has a "Smart Cord" connection on one end. Will this work with the Lumitek Digital Ballasts?


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## smokingrubber (Dec 18, 2009)

mugsby said:


> You make me feel more of a newbie than i even am. i dont even know what this "crucial bend period" iss. haha. more learning to do i guess!


LOL that's a highly technical term I pulled from the old rear end. Lemme splain: 
The first tie-off pulls the tiny plant over toward the rim. Thats fairly easy. The 2-4 ties have to start coaxing it into a drastic 100 degree turn.  (It's a 90 degree but by the time you actually make the turn its closer to 100.) 

Allowing the stalk to fatten up before bending SUCKS.  My nodes are so close together I could barely get my fingers in there. It got as fat as my finger by the time I tried to push it over. duh loooo-serrrr I should slap the crap out of myself.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 18, 2009)

Ten Simple Steps Medicinal-cannabis Patients Can Take To Protect Their Crops 

Since the passage of Proposition 215 in 1996, Californians have been permitted by law to grow marijuana for personal medical use. Even though it has been legal for almost 13 years now, regulations vary from county to county. In Sacramento, which hasn't established its own rules, patients are subject to the guidelines set forth by Senate Bill 420, which permits six mature and 12 immature plants and may possess up to 8 ounces of dried cannabis. 

For patients who grow indoors, six mature plants and 12 immature plants can take up a significant amount of space. If the patient wants to grow enough marijuana to last until the next harvest, he or she must grow bigger plants or have a continuous garden, which can draw unwanted attention. 

I'm talking about thieves. For anyone who creates something of value, there's always been someone else willing to take it from them. A dismal fact of human existence, but nevertheless a fact, as evidenced by the rash of home invasions tied to medical-marijuana cultivation that occurred in Sacramento this October. 

According to The Sacramento Bee, plants were taken by armed gunmen at three of the residences. At a fourth residence, the occupant interrupted the gunmen and was fatally wounded. 

In short, if you're going to cultivate your own medicine in the city, you're opening yourself up to an array of problems and risks. Here are some strategies I've learned over the years that might help patients who are new know what they're up against. 

1. First rule of fight club: Don't talk about fight club! 

Don't worry about telling anyone else what you're up to; what they don't know can't hurt you. 

2. If you medicate where you grow, people will know. 

When people smell pot burning, it turns heads and labels your domicile a pot house, plants or not. 

3. If you live in an apartment complex, use compact fluorescents. 

One way a thief can tell you're growing is to look at your electric meter or listen for the large fans needed to cool HID lighting. Compact fluorescents use less than a third of the electricity as HID, and you'll get almost-as-good results. In addition, because most homes aren't wired to support high-intensity discharge lights, you lessen the chance of having a fire. 

4. Lights on during the day, lights out at night. 

Even though you're a patient and your status is legal, the thermal-imaging scopes used by law enforcement don't know that. If it can read your heat signature from a helicopter, that's enough probable cause to come knocking at your door. ( Always have your physician's recommendation within easy reach for such occasions. ) If your room temperature will allow it, always run your lights during the day, because thermal imaging only works at night. 

5. If you want to do well, cover the smell. 

If you cut the smell of the garden, you lower your chances of a rip-off by at least 50 percent. Do not skimp on the expense, there is no substitute for carbon filter technology. For under $500, you can purchase a fan-and-filter combination package at the better indoor gardening stores in Sacramento. 

6. Investigate before you propagate. 

Don't move into a neighborhood and start a garden without feeling things out and getting to know your potential neighbors. Neighborhoods with teenagers and gangbangers should be avoided. The last thing any sick person wants is some kid or criminal breaking in and stealing their medicine. 

7. Ask your landlord for permission. 

Have some respect for other people's property, they worked hard for it. You can avoid unwanted visits from the guys in blue by being honest with your landlord. 

8. Do not destroy or damage your dwelling if you rent it. 

Water damage can be devastating to a subfloor and a raised foundation, causing rot and mold problems for the owners to deal with. 

9. Do not have parties or gatherings where you are growing. 

What is the goal here? 

10. Keep a spotless garden, leave no waste on site. 

Clean all signs of gardening: nutrients, old bottles, rock wool, stalks, leaves and anything else thieves can spot as an indicator that you're cultivating. 

Some of these preventative actions go without saying, but better safe than sorry. Choose your location wisely, be respectful to the environment and the people around you. 

Remember, as a member of the medical-marijuana community, you are protected in court and have safe access to medication. If you cultivate your own medication and take certain steps to keep your grow safe from unwanted visitors, your access will remain secure. As Yoda said, "Do or do not. There is no try."

http://www.mapinc.org/norml/v09/n1127/a07.htm

*WORDS TO LIVE BY*


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## smokingrubber (Dec 19, 2009)

I am starting to question my timing here. The tent is on cruise control (minus a few wrong turns) but the clones and cuttings are going no where. If they don't start making moves soon, Im afraid they'll get left behind.

The one in the veg room will be technically ready to flower in a week or two imo. I will get my new equipment in approximately 3 weeks. The plan is to set everything up and go straight to flower. There is no way the kids will be ready by then at this rate. I could set up the 4x9 and veg everything for ANOTHER 3 weeks. But that means these girls will have to wait another 6 weeks minimum? I don't know if thats the smart thing to do or just kick the babies to the curb and flower the 8 with a bunch of room to fluff out? These are only 2 gallon pots and it's too late to change them.

You can see how fat the stalk is in just a few days. Craaazzzzyyyy. Thats why I'm having such a hard time bending the fuckrs.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 19, 2009)

About an hour before lights out, I fetch 4 plants and put them outside on the patio. Its dark and cold out so the plants seem like they relax a bit. They sit outside for 15 minutes and I bring them in one at a time for tieing. Its a gradual tie down when they're this plump. I do them 4 at a time cuz I have 4 empty pots to hold the roots while I work on them.

I dont think it was a great idea to LST under 1000w. Just thinkin out loud. Grow and learn.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 19, 2009)

Im using the 3 part GH nutes. Can anyone provide some info on the "*Lucas Formula*"? Ive heard it mentioned, but found hundreds of returns on a search without sucess. Anyone recommend it?


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## NewGrowth (Dec 19, 2009)

Copy and pasted this one twice tonight but here yah go 
General Hydroponics Flora Series Feeding Strategy - Lucas Formula 

G-M-B (Grow-Micro-Bloom) 
0-5-10 - For Vegetative cycle (18/6) 
0-8-16 - For Flowering cycle (12/12) 

The numbers above indicate the number of milliliters (ml) of Flora Grow, Micro or Bloom formulas that I use in one gallon (US Liquid) of nutrients. 

You will notice I dont use any of the Flora &#8220;Grow&#8221; formula, do not need to, the Flora "Micro" provides plenty of Nitrogen. 

There are two ways to work with this formula: 

1. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected water solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. After adding back an amount of water equal to the amount of your reservoir capacity you should change the reservoir and put in fresh solution. 

2. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected 100% strength nutrient solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. Continue to use this nutrient solution without dumping the tank unless the PPM rises above acceptable levels. 

Between vegetative and flowering cycles you should dump your nutrients, then flush (possibly with Clearex) to remove salt buildups, then change to the other feeding program. Always shake your GH nutrient bottles before using them! 

For young plants, just transplanted into the hydro setup, give them 50% strength nutrient mix to prevent overfeeding them while their young. Gradually bring up the mix to full strength as they grow over the next few weeks or so. 

The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water. 

NOTE: The Lucas formula eliminates the need for Epsom salts to correct (Magnesium) Mg deficiencies in most normal feeding programs recommended by manufacturers. Cannabis needs a lot of Magnesium to thrive. 

The Flora Micro is providing the Nitrogen and the Magnesium in the proper balance, thus there is no need for the Grow formula and little or no room under the maximum acceptable ppm limit of 1600 @ 0.7 conversion. 

Calculated EC/TDS levels: 

EC microsiemen: 
0-4-8: 946 µS 
0-5-10: 1184 µS 
0-8-16: 1894 µS 

TDS @ 0.5 conversion: 
0-4-8 = 473 ppm 
0-5-10 = 592 ppm 
0-8-16 = 947 ppm 

TDS @ 0.7 conversion: 
0-4-8 = 663 ppm 
0-5-10 = 829 ppm 
0-8-16 = 1326 ppm 

Addback Calculator - (For Advanced Users) 

Say you were running the 0-8-16 formula, at 0.7 conversion with a 22 gallon res. When you first fill it up, your ppm will be around 1330. 

Now you have been growing for a week, and some of the water has been taken up by the plants, some has evaporated, and now your res is at 947 ppm. You need to get your ppm from 947 to 1330. Here is the equation: 

((target - current) / target) * 8 ml per gallon * res gallons = Flora Micro (ml) double this figure to get Flora Bloom (ml) 

Example: 

((1330 - 947) / 1330) * 8 * 22 
(383 / 1330) * 8 * 22 
0.3 * 8 * 22 = 53 ml Flora Micro 

53 ml Flora Micro, double that and you get 106 ml Flora Bloom. So 53 ml Flora Micro and 106 ml Flora Bloom to add back to your 22 gallon res to get you from 947 to 1330. 

Using Hard Water GH Micro 

I had been experimenting with using the Hard water Micro as a substitute for the normal Flora Micro, this to account for my hard 350 PPM water and the lack of a large enough RO filter at the time. It has worked well for me. I just kept my reservoir below 1150 PPM @ .5 conversion and its all good. 

One tip - do not pH down this stuff, the hard water micro will drop pH gradually over the next 24 hours, for example I mix up a batch, it is at like 6.2, the next day, its at 5.6-5.8 after running in the system for a while. If I pH downed that to 5.7 before putting it in the system, it ended up as low as 4.8-5.2 by the next day. 

My conclusion, the hard water micro was buffering the alkaline crud in my water, it just doesnot do it ASAP fast like the phosphoric acid.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 19, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Im using the 3 part GH nutes. Can anyone provide some info on the "*Lucas Formula*"? Ive heard it mentioned, but found hundreds of returns on a search without sucess. Anyone recommend it?


I've used it with success this far.

RO water, 8 mL/Floranova Bloom per gallon - haven't changed my res thus far (about seven weeks), and no deficiencies - pH has also been locked onto 5.8 for the past few weeks, haven't had to adjust at all.

And as far as the post above, the different nute amounts during veg and flower were later retracted by Lucas is his popular "Ask Lucas" thread on cannabis-world.com.

The strength is dependent on the lighting system used, not the stage of growth - 5/10 is for fluorescents, 8/16 for HID lighting.

It's really a great system, I'd recommend reading through this entire thread if you're more interested:

http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/showthread.php?t=892

One of my top three all-time threads.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 19, 2009)

That page worked but all the links off it seems bad. Not your fault. 

Since I just dropped another 200 friday on extra nutes, I wont be changing anytime soon. I was wondering why hydro-dummy said no one ever buys that stuff (florablend). I ordered 2½ gallons cuz be only carried qts. I'm stocked up.

as always... maybe on the next crop.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 20, 2009)

Still tossing around 3-600s vs 2-1000. Here is my current tent setup on the bottom and a couple options.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 20, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Still tossing around 3-600s vs 2-1000. Here is my current tent setup on the bottom and a couple options.


I'm having the same issues as you regarding planning my next flowering room (either 2 1Ks or 4 600s), but if you're deadset on an 8x4 footprint, then the 1Ks make more sense - the extra 600 in that drawing still doesn't cover the perimeter.


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## laserbrn (Dec 21, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> I'm having the same issues as you regarding planning my next flowering room (either 2 1Ks or 4 600s), but if you're deadset on an 8x4 footprint, then the 1Ks make more sense - the extra 600 in that drawing still doesn't cover the perimeter.


Whether or not it will cover the perimiter will depend upon the reflector chosen. You may have some coverage problems with 3x 600w's covering the perimiter but the light at the perimiter of a 4x4 w/ a 1k light isn't very impressive either.

It may very well be 6 one way and 1/2 a dozen the other. I think you'll be more flexible and have more options if you stick with the 3 600w's though. Either way of course would be awesome. Are you having problems covering the perimiter with a single 600w now?


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## smokingrubber (Dec 21, 2009)

I'm using a 1000w now. No problems with light coverage whatsoever. I'm using a Cool Sun Hood. http://www.sunlightsupply.com/hort/products.aspx?request=COOL-SUN-REFLECTOR&title=Reflectors&type=product


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## smokingrubber (Dec 21, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> I'm having the same issues as you regarding planning my next flowering room (either 2 1Ks or 4 600s), but if you're deadset on an 8x4 footprint, then the 1Ks make more sense - the extra 600 in that drawing still doesn't cover the perimeter.


Im deadset on 4'9" x 9'-6"  ... I kept saying 4x8 but when I went to draw it I noticed it's 9 and half feet long. wooo hoooo. The drawing is very accurate in its porportions.

The 2-light pattern is much more consistant imo. The 3-light would have a pretty fat hot spot in the center. Could be almost double the light intensity available on the perimeter. Right now I like the 1000w for coverage so it's an obvious choice.

Shoot me the dimensions you're working with and I'll sketch it for you. Hood size too.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 21, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Im deadset on 4'9" x 9'-6"  ... I kept saying 4x8 but when I went to draw it I noticed it's 9 and half feet long. wooo hoooo. The drawing is very accurate in its porportions.
> 
> The 2-light pattern is much more consistant imo. The 3-light would have a pretty fat hot spot in the center. Could be almost double the light intensity available on the perimeter. Right now I like the 1000w for coverage so it's an obvious choice.
> 
> Shoot me the dimensions you're working with and I'll sketch it for you. Hood size too.


Wow, for reals?

The dimensions of the actual enclosure would be a square, 8' by 8'.

Under the four 600s would be four 3x3 E&F tables, each spaced 6'' off the wall (to give a 1' walkway between them in any direction).

The reflector sizes are 32.5" by 26.25".

Thanks man, I really appreciate this.

Also appreciate your idea of a modified controller bucket system, just need to do some more research into how I'd make that work.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 21, 2009)

Making the bucket system work is EXTREMELY simple. 

1. Put the controller on the ground.
2. Raise the flood table a couple inches off the ground via layed out 2x4 and plumb underneath.
3. Add plants, add lights, smoke your brains out, you know the rest 

Do you not understand exactly how the controller system works?
I will sketch your room in awhile. I don't use AutoCAD here at work anymore, it's at home.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 21, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Making the bucket system work is EXTREMELY simple.
> 
> Do you not understand exactly how the controller system works?


Bingo 

I assume there's some sort of float valve that turns something off so that it doesn't overflow - running out to Home Depot now to grab parts for my CO2 generator "experiment", but I'll take a look at the start of your thread when I get back and done with that - I recall you were having some overflow issues, lemme see if that helps me understand how it works.

And I really appreciate the AutoCad thing - does that take into account light intensity as well? I remember Sunlight Supply (maybe it was Hydrofarm) used to have a tool where you could give the dimensions of the room, your light(s) size, and it would show you the light coverage for it.

Lemme see if I can find that little old program.........


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## smokingrubber (Dec 21, 2009)

I'll try to help splain it. I did have an overflow problem at first. I failed to read the damn instructions! The system comes with a "syphon break" fitting I did not install. Thats fixed though.

Imagine you have two buckets, with a hose (connected at the base) between them. Pouring water into one bucket will fill both buckets evenly. Removing water from either bucket will empty it from both. 

There is one pump in the controller bucket to handle emptying the controller, and another pump in the barrel to fill the controller. The controller has timer on the front which controls whether the system is in FILL or DRAIN mode. When its in FILL mode: The pump in the barrel fills the controller till it reaches the top, and gravity fills the table. As things even out the controller is constantly topped off till everything is full up. The top float shuts it off. The "syphon break" fitting is installed on this line to make sure it stops filling when its supposed to. When it's in DRAIN mode (90% of the time) the pump in the controller sends the water back to the barrel. When the controller is empty, a float valve shuts the pump off. If any water (AC drain) gets into the controller it will automatically trigger the pump and send it out.

Not very complicated. The controller sets the height of the flood. It's all about the controller! You can buy them seperately.

No, AutoCAD doesn't take light intensity into account. IT CAN. I've worked with an engineer that can do light refractory anaysis with it. But I can't. Not my field. Plus, every hood is different.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 21, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I'll try to help splain it. I did have an overflow problem at first. I failed to read the damn instructions! The system comes with a "syphon break" fitting I did not install. Thats fixed though.
> 
> Imagine you have two buckets, with a hose (connected at the base) between them. Pouring water into one bucket will fill both buckets evenly. Removing water from either bucket will empty it from both.
> 
> ...


Thank you kindly, sir 

I'll still need to look into it further - would need to have the controller bucket outside of the tent, for space issues, but that sounds like it could work.

And I did a search for that Hydrofarm program but came up empty...........


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## smokingrubber (Dec 21, 2009)

I might have murdered BH#3. I was tieing them down and it seemed like BH bent over awful easy. I thought COOL. The next day I looked in and it didn't look happy. I had broken the stalk. I chopped up the top a little and tried to root it. I don't know why, it fuggn sucked! I never liked that little runt bastard anyway!

Also, I almost killed the clones and cuttings. Saturday I was in there taking their class pictures and I though I would let everything air-out for an hour (what was I thinking?). Two hours later when i remembered, they were limp. I sprayed and covered them up, and it appears they're going to hold on. We'll see.

They're kinda touchy.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 21, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I might have murdered BH#3. I was tieing them down and it seemed like BH bent over awful easy. I thought COOL. The next day I looked in and it didn't look happy. I had broken the stalk. I chopped up the top a little and tried to root it. I don't know why, it fuggn sucked! I never liked that little runt bastard anyway!
> 
> Also, I almost killed the clones and cuttings. Saturday I was in there taking their class pictures and I though I would let everything air-out for an hour (what was I thinking?). Two hours later when i remembered, they were limp. I sprayed and covered them up, and it appears they're going to hold on. We'll see.
> 
> They're kinda touchy.


Hmmmmm, that's weird - an hour or two with the top off shouldn't do that much to them - were the cubes still moist?

I take my top off (lol) for an hour or two a day to harden them while still under fluoros - increase daily until the top's just always off.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 21, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Thank you kindly, sir
> 
> I'll still need to look into it further - would need to have the controller bucket outside of the tent, for space issues, but that sounds like it could work.
> 
> And I did a search for that Hydrofarm program but came up empty...........


The controller is only about 10 inches wide. FYI, It needs to have flat water lines (any length) running to the table. Any hump in the middle of the line will limit how empty the table will get. You can have the barrel anywhere though.

I will take a short video of the thing in action later.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 21, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Hmmmmm, that's weird - an hour or two with the top off shouldn't do that much to them - were the cubes still moist?
> 
> I take my top off (lol) for an hour or two a day to harden them while still under fluoros - increase daily until the top's just always off.


It didnt hurt the clones too much, but the cuttings I took 2 days before drooped a lot. It may have been a little more than 2 hours, I didnt check. They've bounced back mostly. The first week for the cuttings is touchy.


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## marypane (Dec 21, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> I'm having the same issues as you regarding planning my next flowering room (either 2 1Ks or 4 600s), but if you're deadset on an 8x4 footprint, then the 1Ks make more sense - the extra 600 in that drawing still doesn't cover the perimeter.


I disagree. Three 600s will do you better. It allows for having the light closer to the plants without burning or heat stressing them. Esp. if you are working in an enclosed tent.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 21, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Wow, for reals?
> 
> The dimensions of the actual enclosure would be a square, 8' by 8'.
> 
> ...


Pretty simple layout.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 21, 2009)

I can't do the LST. Broke another one! 


Blue Hash #3 this time. MF!!!!!!

Not as bad as the first one, I only took the top 2 inches this time. FUUUUUUUUUUCK! ... I'm done with that. They look very good, but I'm running out of plants here.

I just have to cross my fingers and wait on the clones. Got 3 more off BH#3 (small silver lining there).


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## Bob Smith (Dec 21, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Pretty simple layout.


Thanks man - I like the look of that room right there 

'Preciate it.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 22, 2009)

My plan is in motion mmmmmooohhhoooohhaaahahhhaaaaahahahha

This is the WORST time to be waiting on the mail, but pateince ... and a couple egg-nog totties will get me through.

No more LST for me. It was a good plan but I think the 1000w MH (even at 4½ft away) makes the stalks too thick to bend - too fast. Maybe it would be different under T5s. I've got about a dozen sites on each plant so I'll just have to let them go and see what happens. They will all have plenty of room to spread out and flourish when the 4½x9 tent is set up next week.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 22, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> My plan is in motion mmmmmooohhhoooohhaaahahhhaaaaahahahha
> 
> This is the WORST time to be waiting on the mail, but pateince ... and a couple egg-nog totties will get me through.
> 
> No more LST for me. It was a good plan but I think the 1000w MH (even at 4½ft away) makes the stalks too thick to bend - too fast. Maybe it would be different under T5s. I've got about a dozen sites on each plant so I'll just have to let them go and see what happens. They will all have plenty of room to spread out and flourish when the 4½x9 tent is set up next week.


Lol........was gonna give you the same advice that you gave me, which is to slow down on the expansion, but hey, if it's already coming, it's already coming 

I'll be watching..............any other additions going into the new setup?


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## smokingrubber (Dec 22, 2009)

No major changes planned. I'll upgrade to the large tent, the extra 1000w, and add 12 more pots. I will add an AC and several fans. That's about it. That should double my capacity and improve stability.

Gotta get my script renewed too. Im ridin dirty so I can't let that slip any farther.

The GranDaddyPurp clones look to be establishing themselves. I will check tonight for roots, but Im seeing small signs of growth. Too bad the cuttings are 2 weeks behind the clones, the newest ones prolly won't be established soon enough to visit the flower room in a few weeks. The race is on.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 22, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> No major changes planned. I'll upgrade to the large tent, the extra 1000w, and add 12 more pots. I will add an AC and several fans. That's about it. That should double my capacity and improve stability.
> 
> Gotta get my script renewed too. Im ridin dirty so I can't let that slip any farther.
> 
> The GranDaddyPurp clones look to be establishing themselves. I will check tonight for roots, but Im seeing small signs of growth. Too bad the cuttings are 2 weeks behind the clones, the newest ones prolly won't be established soon enough to visit the flower room in a few weeks. The race is on.


You could always top the plants to keep height down whilst waiting for others to catch up...........and with two lights, you can have different height plants in there - just have the shorter plants under the lower light.

Or, you could set it up to be a perpertual harvest, and stagger them a month - harvest 1lb.+ every month to "infinity and beyond".

BTW, setup the generator and haven't roasted any plants yet


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## smokingrubber (Dec 22, 2009)

Glad you haven't roasted anyone 

A perpetual harvest would be difficult to execute now, until I get a veg tent set up at my next residence. Then, I want two 4x9 tents and one 4x4. I would use the 4x4 for mothers and clones, and stagger the 2 big tents for 3 months cycles (4 weeks veg & 8 weeks flower). That would be approx 3 lbs every 6 weeks.  Thats the grand plan after this hobby kicks down a little.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 22, 2009)

Changing the nutes right now. It only takes about 10 minutes to pump the barrel out. I thought I would throw out a fresh pic. There a bunch of new sites poking their heads up. See all the new growth areas? Those runt plants are the ones I murdered. Chalk that up to experience. Oh well, they'll still do something special.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 22, 2009)

Smoking, look at what happens when you Niners fans try to come into Philly..........pretty funny..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2isksLw0jW8

BTW, plants are looking nice


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## smokingrubber (Dec 22, 2009)

It's not all Bud Porn and $ like they think!


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## smokingrubber (Dec 22, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Smoking, look at what happens when you Niners fans try to come into Philly..........pretty funny..........
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2isksLw0jW8
> 
> BTW, plants are looking nice


Ahhh that is FUUUUUCT UP! ... but it was funny lmao ... They didn't even throw any back!

Thanks  Gotta go finish scrubbin the busket.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 22, 2009)

11 days off  I'm gettn tore up! i loooove those plants


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## smokingrubber (Dec 23, 2009)

I changed the res yesterday (10 days between changes) but it took all evening to refill. RO water 6.40ph. After I added the nutes 4.50ph. 

Ph is at 4.90 in the morning (7 hours later). Also, the morning temp in the tent is around 62-65f degrees. 50-55 RH. It gets up to 75f by mid day. *How bad is that? *I dont have any PH-UP yet. Im headed to the hydro store in a few minutes. Ive always had to use PH-DOWN. Figures. 1210ppm

*Should I use the Growtek Silicosis & SM-90 on every res change? Or every other?*


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I changed the res yesterday (10 days between changes) but it took all evening to refill. RO water 6.40ph. After I added the nutes 4.50ph.
> 
> Ph is at 4.90 in the morning (7 hours later). Also, the morning temp in the tent is around 62-65f degrees. 50-55 RH. It gets up to 75f by mid day. *How bad is that? *I dont have any PH-UP yet. Im headed to the hydro store in a few minutes. Ive always had to use PH-DOWN. Figures. 1210ppm
> 
> *Should I use the Growtek Silicosis & SM-90 on every res change? Or every other?*


Have you callibrated your pH meter lately?

RO water should be right around 7.0, +/-.15 at the most.

Sounds like you need some calibration solution (although picking up some pH Up can't hurt).

And are you running your light 24/0? And does your light have its own air-cooling fan, or is there one fan that cools the light and also exhausts the tent?

Either way, I'd get a thermostat like this:

http://www.luxproducts.com/thermostats/win100.htm

I just got one and I love it - had the same problem, sometimes the ambient temp in my garage is so low that I don't need to run the fan cooling the light, so this thermostat shuts it off to keep heat inside the tent.

Especially if your exhaust fan(s) are always running, that'll at least keep the temps ~70 for you.

Regarding the SM-90, I have some but have never opened it - I'm saving it for when I (hopefully never) really need it, as I feel that feeding low "preventative" doses will just harden off the mites (or whatever else I'm trying to kill).

I basically use H2O2 (35%) as my preventative in my rez, kills everything.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 23, 2009)

SM-90 doesnt say it kills mites. It claims (on the bottle) to be a plant/hydro lubricant. I was under the impression it DID kill pests, but thats not what the bottle claims.

Running the light 18/6. Yes, thats a good idea on the plug. Currently, it's one fan sucking air through both. The renovation will include the thermos. Thanks.

I calibrated the ph meter a week ago. I didnt see much float in the ph this week. Couldnt hurt to check it though you're right.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> SM-90 doesnt say it kills mites. It claims (on the bottle) to be a plant/hydro lubricant. I was under the impression it DID kill pests, but thats not what the bottle claims.


Your impression is correct - the "SM" is short for spider mites - it may do other things as well, but it was designed and marketed (at first) to kill insects (mites, specifically), and I'm saving it for that use.

http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/Itemdesc.asp?ic=NEGSM9032&eq=&Tp=


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## smokingrubber (Dec 23, 2009)

Hmmm good lookup. Glad I bought it  I will continue to add it to the res, but the foliar spray requires too much ratio imo. I will save that for as needed.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 23, 2009)

I drove 20 miles to the hydro store and 20 miles back. Lovely day btw. When I returned, the ph was at 5.00, I decided to add the Silicosis and SM-90. 

80ml SM-90
100ml Silicosis

This spiked the ph up to 7.50 and it dropped ads the water circulated. 5 minutes later the ph is 6.3 and falling. I drove all that way for nothing  Plants look happy today though.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 23, 2009)

I love this guys budz  Too bad he's using dirt. LOVE the shape of the plants and variety though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2520IMcdmg


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> I love this guys budz  Too bad he's using dirt. LOVE the shape of the plants and variety though.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2520IMcdmg


Good looking grow; quite the dichotomy of them playing rap in the background whilst the grower is wearing a shirt with a swastika on it.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 23, 2009)

Bob Smith said:


> Good looking grow; quite the dichotomy of them playing rap in the background whilst the grower is wearing a shirt with a swastika on it.


maybe he thinks its cool? I didnt even see that  I was lookn at his budz!


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## smokingrubber (Dec 23, 2009)

It's about time someone came up with a fan that varried its speed based on temperature. Can Fan has done it. http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=7789

Gotta get me one of those. Had my eye (the good one) set on a Vortex till I saw that feature!


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> It's about time someone came up with a fan that varried its speed based on temperature. Can Fan has done it. http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=7789
> 
> Gotta get me one of those. Had my eye (the good one) set on a Vortex till I saw that feature!


I've seen that in some grow mags I read - the issues for me is that:

1) They only come in 240V as of right now
2) They are moronically expensive - I could get a $70 6" inline (425CFM) and hook up my $35 thermostat to it for less then 1/3 of the price.

I wouldn't waste your money on that, honestly.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 23, 2009)

1. Ive got 240v so no big deal for me. Glad to get it off my overloaded 15amp 110 actually.

2. About 100 more than I wanted to spend, but this way provides high and low instead of on and off. Im thinking of it for my primary carbon filter exhaust. For the light exhaust I was going to use a cheap 150cfm duct fan for $50.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 23, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> 1. Ive got 240v so no big deal for me. Glad to get it off my overloaded 15amp 110 actually.
> 
> 2. About 100 more than I wanted to spend, but this way provides high and low instead of on and off. Im thinking of it for my primary carbon filter exhaust. For the light exhaust I was going to use a cheap 150cfm duct fan for $50.


I realize it's "only" $100 more then you wanted to spend, but I can vouch for these fans:

http://www.businesslights.com/valueline-inch-435-cfm-centrifugal-inline-fan-p-2045.html

Work great, and just imagine what you can buy/upgrade with the money you save.

$300 goes a long way.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 25, 2009)

I saw roots from 2 of the GranDaddyPurp clones. I I put 4 of them into 4" rockwool and potted them in the tent. I expect them to stall a few days, then grab hold of the light and go. We'll see. They're small. They were cut 2 weeks ago and theyre going into 1000w @ 1230ppm. Ive got my fingers crossed.







Merry Christmas everyone. Thanks for following my journal.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 26, 2009)

Massive growth today it seems. Even the babies don't seem unhappy. They're not taking off yet, but they're getting comfortable and they'll be making moves in a few days.

Look how much everything has started to fill in though. Its a good thing they'll have the new tent to expand into in 4 or 5 days.


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## [email protected] T33 (Dec 28, 2009)

wow what a grow!!!


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## smokingrubber (Dec 28, 2009)

[email protected] T33 said:


> wow what a grow!!!


Thank you.

Soooo ... here's my current plan. This is important because Im ordering everything so its official.

1. Take down the 4x4 tent and replace it with a 4x9 tent.
2. 2 Galaxy 1000w Digital Ballasts & Hood w/ Hortilux HPS
3. 2 Can Fan HO 400cfm Fans (w/ existing can-filter 66)
4. Portable AC unit to cool the garage.
5. Small dehumidifier for inside the tent.

The plants are growing crazy. I can't wait an extra month for the GDP and the clones to catch up. The big ones will be massive by then and they'll just block out the light anyway. So as soon as the new tent is here and set up, I'll spread out the plants (4 per light) and switch to 12/12. Im just gonna have to toss or give away all the GranDaddyPurp and A-Train clones. They would be monsters by the time the tent is ready to flower them. I expect everything will arrive next monday or tuesday so that gives me a week to prep the garage and the attic. 

Setting up the first tent was kind of a bitch, but if you remember I said I could do it faster next time ... we'll see.

With only 4 plants per light, they will have PLENTY of room to fill out. At this point I wish the buckets were larger than 2 gal, but not much I can do about it now. I expect a semi-decent yield, but whatever ... I'll chalk it up to experience and I KNOW I'll have enough to smoke for a few months so FUCK IT. If I get 1 lbs off 8 plants I'll be stoked.


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## Bob Smith (Dec 29, 2009)

smokingrubber said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Soooo ... here's my current plan. This is important because Im ordering everything so its official.
> 
> ...


From someone who's taken down (and put back up) two tents a couple of times in a few months, it gets much, much, much easier.

Plus everytime you set them up you improve on something from the last setup 

Grow's looking good man, excited to see the 4x9 in action  (looking more and more like a 4x9 with 2 1Ks makes the most sense for me right now as well).


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## smokingrubber (Dec 29, 2009)

Spending $ like it's christmas . . . doh! I just got back from a road trip to get the tent and a bunch of other stuff. 2 hrs each way!!!! It was worth it cuz I probably saved at least 400 on all this crap. Plus, I've got everything here already and I don't have to wait on the mail. Of course, they didnt have everything I wanted like the Titan 5 timers so I'm still waiting on the mail.

Now I just have to wait for it to get a little darker before I unload the car. Tomorrow, I can clean out the space in the garage and take my other refrigerator to a friend's house. Then I can set up the 4x9 and run it with the old single 1000w MH for another week. Then again its probably easier to wait till I have everything in hand and do it all right the first time.

Gotta let the credit card cool off before I leave the house again. I just dropped 3½K


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## smokingrubber (Dec 29, 2009)

I moved them around a bit to get better light everywhere. I also moved the 1000w down about a foot. It seemed like they were stretching a lot in the last week. They've also been drinking a lot of water lately (i think its a lot). They drank about 12 gallons in 5 days. When I top off the water which nutes do I add? Do I have to use ¼ the strength of my 40 gal recipe? Or what? Im using GH's 3-part system (more like 9 fukn parts).












Im going to toss the babies. What a shame.


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## smokingrubber (Dec 30, 2009)

I visited the Doctor this evening . . . Good news: There is nothing wrong with me that a good hooter won't fix right up  (no offense to those who suffer serious problems). I asked the doctor what the regulations are regarding growing near a school. Since I live across the street from a private christian k-12 school. Plus, there's an old-folks home next door to that! I can just see it on channel 12 news now. So anyway he said it's NO PROBLEM. What I can't do is smoke in public within 1000 yards of a school or day care center during their hours of operation. At night, smoke away! As long as Im growing in a discreet location (well duh) I'm legal as a college cheerleader (BARELY).


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## [email protected] T33 (Dec 30, 2009)

haha as legal as a college cheerleader lamo


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## smokingrubber (Dec 30, 2009)

They slipped a 120v ballast in on me  I even went over to look at them with the fukr. He showed me the 240v and I ASSUMED he was going to grab another one just like it. Its a good thing I didnt tip the bastard like he was expecting after he loaded my car. Can you believe a Hydro store that has 3 people to work the registers and 3 people to load cars and stock shelves? I dont know who . . . but someone is growing some SHIT around this mf! 

So anyway, now I have to drive all the way back down there AGAIN today. This time Im going to stop at a club and see what's on the menu  I'm not gonna go crazy but I'll pick up a couple sample baggies for show-n-tell later.


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## Barron (Dec 30, 2009)

Awesome journal! Subscribed


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## smokingrubber (Dec 30, 2009)

Looong drive. Just got back and I made a special stop at the dispencery. I picked up a couple 1/8ths and a gram of Herer Hash









I picked up a couple more items at the hydro store. Thanks for the tips guys!






I didnt do anything in the tent today, tomorrow for sure  Time to sample some treats


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## smokingrubber (Dec 30, 2009)

I discussed the nutrient top-off with the hydro guy. He recommended using the FloraNova 1-part as just top-off. I really loved talking to someone who knows what he's doing. Anyone who follows my journal knows my personal nickname for my local shop.

I got a few good tips and saved a bunch of money. Not JUST on the fat discounts I got for having to drive 2 hrs each way cuz it was their fault. I was set to slap down 550 on a sentinal but he convinced me to spend 140 on an exhaust thermostat controller instead. Then I picked up another bottle of the H2o2 just cuz I dont know how long a liter will last.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 1, 2010)

I spent the day taking down the old tent and putting up the new one. Im fuggn pooped. Im waiting on the mail for the new hood and the timers, so I can only run 1 hood for now. I am going with the 8 big ones. The babies are too small and I dont want to wait another month while the big ones get too big.

I switched to 12/12. Ive still got the MH bulb in there because I wanted to wait until I set up the new ballasts and start everything new. Wont matter for a week will it?

I will take pictures in the morning. Im too fuggn tired and the Lakers are on.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 2, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> I discussed the nutrient top-off with the hydro guy. He recommended using the FloraNova 1-part as just top-off. I really loved talking to someone who knows what he's doing. Anyone who follows my journal knows my personal nickname for my local shop.
> 
> I got a few good tips and saved a bunch of money. Not JUST on the fat discounts I got for having to drive 2 hrs each way cuz it was their fault. I was set to slap down 550 on a sentinal but he convinced me to spend 140 on an exhaust thermostat controller instead. Then I picked up another bottle of the H2o2 just cuz I dont know how long a liter will last.


Looking good buddy (or at least sounds it ).

Assuming you're using the Floranova Bloom for your top offs? That's what I use, works great so far.

And as far as the themostat controller - you can get one for $40 (have it in my flower tent) that works just as well as the $100 that I bought earlier (in my veg tent).


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## smokingrubber (Jan 2, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Looking good buddy (or at least sounds it ).
> 
> Assuming you're using the Floranova Bloom for your top offs? That's what I use, works great so far.
> 
> And as far as the themostat controller - you can get one for $40 (have it in my flower tent) that works just as well as the $100 that I bought earlier (in my veg tent).


Looking VERY good imo. I will have pics in about 30 minutes. Im waiting for the lights to come on. Why did I set it to come on so late? doh

Yep, floranova bloom. That sure beats figuring out percentages of all 9 other friggn bottles I have to add at res change.

I had a little buyers remorse after I bought it. When I was driving home I remembered that you paid $40 for yours. This one has variable speed control (idle) for different temps, so I hope it was worth it. Im putting it on my primary room exhaust so I didnt really want it to just turn off. I also purchased a $40 temp controller for my light fan like you suggested. That one can be simple on/off. 

Now I just have to figure out how to set this controller. This is the one I got: http://aeroponicsnmore.com/ventilation-c-5/temp-2v-fan-speed-control-variable-idle-setpoint-p-181

I was hoping to build the stand for my dehumidifier today, but there will be childrenz in and out around here today. Might have to wait till tomorrow. Pics are coming VERY soon


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## smokingrubber (Jan 2, 2010)

They had to sit outside and wait for the remodel yesterday. It was an overcast day. My patio has never smelled nicer


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## smokingrubber (Jan 2, 2010)

Only one light for now. I will spread them out better next week. For now, they don't look too unhappy. 

They are still producting leaves in pairs. *Do I HAVE to wait until they are alternating? What effect will using the MH bulb for 1 week of flower cause?*


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## laserbrn (Jan 2, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Only one light for now. I will spread them out better next week. For now, they don't look too unhappy.
> 
> They are still producting leaves in pairs. *Do I HAVE to wait until they are alternating? What effect will using the MH bulb for 1 week of flower cause?*


The MH for 1 week of flower won't have any ill effect. Before the HPS came around that's the way it was done. You will get less stretching and it doesn't put out as many lumens, but it won't hurt the plants in any way. Some people go 12/12 from seed so you can certainly flip the lights to 12/12 before they alternating nodes. If they aren't mature enough to flower, they won't and if they are, they will. It's not going to hurt you and the plants are PLENTY big enough and you can't be more than 1 node from alternating. Those things are fuckin' bushy and nice. I think you're going to enjoy your flowering period and get to reap some nice rewards.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 2, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> FUUUUUK!
> 
> 
> It's been a few days since I tied them down (3 days) and I should have been more on it. Specially now cuz it's the main turn and if they get fat at all it's very hard to bend without breaking them. Didn't realize this till they got too fucking fat and I tried to bend it. I didn't even push very hard! But where I had the first string was pretty fat and it just popped like ripe fruit. No bend . . . no gradual flex . . . POP! Right in fucking half!
> ...


All those A-Train clones survived! They are ready to be vegged by a loving gardener. Unfortunately I don't have a veg area set up and they would be too far along by the time I could flower them. Does anyone near Pismo want them? They're yours for a spliff. I have 5 GDP and 6 A-Train for you.


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## 808Bubbler (Jan 2, 2010)

damn man. i got to say i got way too much time on my hands so i spend a lot of time looking at weed porn and I&#699;m 100% no bullshit when i say that your plants are some of the best i&#699;ve seen on the web. (haven&#699;t seen indoor grows in real life, my own will probably be the 1st)


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## smokingrubber (Jan 2, 2010)

808Bubbler said:


> damn man. i got to say i got way too much time on my hands so i spend a lot of time looking at weed porn and I&#699;m 100% no bullshit when i say that your plants are some of the best i&#699;ve seen on the web. (haven&#699;t seen indoor grows in real life, my own will probably be the 1st)


 
Thank you. Right now it's weed porn, soon it'll be BUD Porn


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## smokingrubber (Jan 2, 2010)

I just thought this deserves another post 







I got wood


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## 808Bubbler (Jan 3, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Thank you. Right now it's weed porn, soon it'll be BUD Porn


it almost sees impossible that it could only get better


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## smokingrubber (Jan 3, 2010)

Today, I installed the drain tube on the dehumidifier and placed it on a small table over the controller. This will allow it to continuously drain back into the reservior. Works pretty sweet!

I also topped off the water. The ppm dropped from 1230 (3 days ago at res change) to 940 and I lost about 6 gallons. So I replaced the water and added 200ml of FloraNova Bloom. At $80 gallon that's gonna suck if I have to do that every 3 days!


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## mrduke (Jan 4, 2010)

Lookin' damn fine, Smonkin. Hope you got room for the streching whey you flip those beauty's into flower


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## bongmarley2009 (Jan 5, 2010)

I love tent porn! Can't wait to get my GL80.

Nice setup and beautiful plants thus far. I'll be following your grow.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 5, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> I just thought this deserves another post
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking very nice, my friend 

As soon as I can figure out how to post pics (for some reason my "paperclip" isn't working), I'll post some of my own.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 5, 2010)

mrduke said:


> Lookin' damn fine, Smonkin. Hope you got room for the streching whey you flip those beauty's into flower


I flipped to 12/12 on Jan 1. Nice round date. 

Unfortunately, I ordered from HorticultureSource.com and I forgot thats the same company I had a little problem with last time. "No tax" got me  It seems they've taken the end of the year off because I ordered on the 29th and I haven't even gotten an "order shipped" confirmation yet. That's 7 days and they haven't friggn shipped yet grrrrrrr. Im waiting on the timers, blowers and fans, and the extra hood. I can't plug in the digital ballasts because I dont have a 240v smart plug yet. That's all part of the Titan 5 timer.

These plants can get approximately 4ft tall with no problem, and I would still have more than 12 inches of clearance between the light. They're only about 2ft tall now. I wouldn't mind it one bit if they stretched at least another foot in the next week or two. Right now the light's on a yo-yo and it's still about 30 inches above the plants (because I only have one light up and it has to cover about 7ft across). I'm loving this ebb system btw.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 5, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> I flipped to 12/12 on Jan 1. Nice round date.
> 
> Unfortunately, I ordered from HorticultureSource.com and I forgot thats the same company I had a little problem with last time. "No tax" got me  It seems they've taken the end of the year off because I ordered on the 29th and I haven't even gotten an "order shipped" confirmation yet. That's 7 days and they haven't friggn shipped yet grrrrrrr. Im waiting on the timers, blowers and fans, and the extra hood. I can't plug in the digital ballasts because I dont have a 240v smart plug yet. That's all part of the Titan 5 timer.
> 
> These plants can get approximately 4ft tall with no problem, and I would still have more than 12 inches of clearance between the light. They're only about 2ft tall now. I wouldn't mind it one bit if they stretched at least another foot in the next week or two. Right now the light's on a yo-yo and it's still about 30 inches above the plants (because I only have one light up and it has to cover about 7ft across). I'm loving this ebb system btw.


From someone who's currently dealing with it, it sounds like some headroom issues might be in your future.

Those plants are gonna get 4 foot tall (minimum, probably closer to 5 or 5.5, but it's pretty strain dependent), and if I was you, I'd figure out something sooner rather then later - even at 12" away from the light, without some good plant rotation, light bleaching would likely be in your future.

If the plants are on a yo-yo, does that mean that you have an extra 8" of space (if need be) by removing the yo-yo and hanging it directly from the ceiling supports? Because it's 99% you'll need to do that, IMHO.

Not trying to sound like a Negative Nelly, just have been dealing with height problems and I can tell you from experience that it's something you don't wanna deal with - that being said, you're early enough that you can take measures now to prevent it as best you can.

Anyways, just my $.02.

BTW, happy new year.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 5, 2010)

Yeah with the yo-yos I've got extra room if I need it. I would be surprised if they got to 5½' tall. That would probably be the absolute maximim height I could handle. That would be about 3 tons of bud though so you won't hear much whining out of me  Since they're only in 2 gallon pots, I seriously doubt they'll get that tall. But if they do .... cha-ching!

I mentioned that I topped off the res with 200ml of FloraNova the other day. When I got home yesterday the ppm had climbed to 1850. Oh crap! I had to dilute it. I'm only using 40 gallons of my 55 gallon reservior. Since my reservior has a shut-off float valve on the inlet, I couldnt just turn the water on so that it would fill more (I tried). I had to set up a bucket to collect the RO water. YEP YOU GUESSED IT! I friggn forgot about it. Oh, I had even set a timer to remind me. That didnt do me much good since I wasnt even home when it went off  I was smart enough to set the bucket on top off the washing machine though. When I got home there was about 5 gallons in the washer and just some drip splashes on the ground. Whew.

I tossed in an extra 6 gallons and the ppm is down to 1450 this morning. I have to keep an eye on the reservior though because the dehumidifier dumps water in there too.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 5, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Yeah with the yo-yos I've got extra room if I need it. I would be surprised if they got to 5½' tall. That would probably be the absolute maximim height I could handle. That would be about 3 tons of bud though so you won't hear much whining out of me  Since they're only in 2 gallon pots, I seriously doubt they'll get that tall. But if they do .... cha-ching!
> 
> I mentioned that I topped off the res with 200ml of FloraNova the other day. When I got home yesterday the ppm had climbed to 1850. Oh crap! I had to dilute it. I'm only using 40 gallons of my 55 gallon reservior. Since my reservior has a shut-off float valve on the inlet, I couldnt just turn the water on so that it would fill more (I tried). I had to set up a bucket to collect the RO water. YEP YOU GUESSED IT! I friggn forgot about it. Oh, I had even set a timer to remind me. That didnt do me much good since I wasnt even home when it went off  I was smart enough to set the bucket on top off the washing machine though. When I got home there was about 5 gallons in the washer and just some drip splashes on the ground. Whew.
> 
> I tossed in an extra 6 gallons and the ppm is down to 1450 this morning. I have to keep an eye on the reservior though because the dehumidifier dumps water in there too.


Lol...........so you already know about me busting a 1000HPS ballast with leaving my RO filter on all night?

Ironically, last night I'm laying in bed and can't sleep as I'm dreaming about my 8x8 tent with all the fixin's, etc...............it's about 1:00am, and then I realize - I LEFT THE FUCKING WATER ON ALL NIGHT.

So I sprint outta bed in my boxers, run out into the 0 degree temps (really cold here in, uh, LA) and into the garage, and turn it off with about five minutes before the trash can toppled over and soaked the whole garage.

Ironic it would happen to you on the same day, and with the same filter


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## smokingrubber (Jan 5, 2010)

LOL Ironic! Yeah I remember you did that. That was right around the time I ordered my shut off valve. Those things only work when you use them btw. LOL.

My friend has done it so many times it's not funny. He did it 3 times in one week once! He has several 5 gallon buckets set up in his kitchen and he has to fill about 5 of them for each res change. Plus, he has to change 2 reserviors! He's GOOD with a mop LOL. I thought I was going to avoid those problems with the shut-off valve. It's still only as good as the operator.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 6, 2010)

Ive tracked my crap and it's almost here. I will definately be setting up the new light and the fans tonight. The girls are READY for more light! They'll be stoked (a little cali slang for Bob)!

Im kinda torn on the dehumidifier. It doesnt come back on after a power interuption. The lights on the top are bright red so I had to tape them off. Its always on LOW and now I can't even tell if its ON cuz I taped off the lights grrr. I really like that it drains into the reservior though! It's keeping my levels perfect. Hopefully it's not drinking the electricity.

Now I have to figure out the air-flow. Check out this 3-D pdf and tell me what you think. You will need the newest adobe pdf reader, and you just have to click on the model to spin it. There are tools at the top. http://www.mediafire.com/file/tqlzjn2i22i/tent.pdf

The only constant is the dehumidifier. That will have to stay where I show it. The Can-66 can move. I have: 

2 - 16" oscillating fans
2 - 6" clip-on fans
1 - 10" floor fan (HO)

I can open or close any of the floor vents you see around the outside. *Where should I put the Can-66, how should I position the fans and what vents should I leave open?*


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## smokingrubber (Jan 7, 2010)

No one has any suggestions for how to vent this fuckr?

My friend and I spend several hours last night installing everything. Didn't get done till about 1am. Still had to wake up and go buy more vent tube to finish it.

The lights just went on


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## laserbrn (Jan 7, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> No one has any suggestions for how to vent this fuckr?
> 
> My friend and I spend several hours last night installing everything. Didn't get done till about 1am. Still had to wake up and go buy more vent tube to finish it.
> 
> The lights just went on


Oh yeah, meant to tell you. Link is no good to the pdf file. Can't see what you're talking about.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 7, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> Oh yeah, meant to tell you. Link is no good to the pdf file. Can't see what you're talking about.


That suxs. Try this link http://www.filedropper.com/tent

You may need the newest acrobat reader http://get.adobe.com/reader/ to be able to view and rotate the 3D model.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 7, 2010)

So the main issue is: I have two 16" wall-mount oscillating fans, should I put them both on one end to create circulation or should they be on opposite sides facing each other (oscillating)?

Here's what Im thinking. I should open the vent directly below the filter. Right in front of that, have one or two HO floor fans pushing air down the center isle toward the dehumidifier. Then two 16" oscillating fans above the dehumidier pushing the top air back toward the filter. 

I also have 2 weak 6" king-air fans I don't know what to do with.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 7, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> So the main issue is: I have two 16" wall-mount oscillating fans, should I put them both on one end to create circulation or should they be on opposite sides facing each other (oscillating)?
> 
> Here's what Im thinking. I should open the vent directly below the filter. Right in front of that, have one or two HO floor fans pushing air down the center isle toward the dehumidifier. Then two 16" oscillating fans above the dehumidier pushing the top air back toward the filter.
> 
> I also have 2 weak 6" king-air fans I don't know what to do with.


Like Laser, I'm having issues with viewing it (and am not sure how helpful it'd be, anyways).

Regarding the oscillating fans, you're gonna want them on opposite ends, without a doubt.

And what are the floor fans doing in there except taking up valuable space?

Can you grab us a quick pick? Two 16" oscillating fans are more then enough for a 9x4 tent.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 7, 2010)

Im at work right now so I cant do pics yet. Later this evening I will do a FULL update with pics so you can see the 2k setup 

I'm getting reports that the digital ballasts are causing interference with the nutrient monitor. According to the monitor, my ppm is 1900 w/ 4.00 ph & 81f degree water! None of that can be right.

With the bucket system there is a wide isle down the center. There is plenty of room down there for fans. You'll see when I get pics later. Did you try the second link?


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## smokingrubber (Jan 7, 2010)

Here is a pic update

2000 WATTS MF! mooohooohoohahahhaaaaahaaaahahaha

The first two were two days ago when the lights were off.











Here are the digitals mounted and proud. The engine room!






Same buds under hps






The shot from the door. Dual 1000w HPS






It shouldn't be too long now


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## Bob Smith (Jan 7, 2010)

Looking very, very nice.

I'm jealous.


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## laserbrn (Jan 7, 2010)

Very, very nice sir. Looks so full already!


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## smokingrubber (Jan 7, 2010)

Thank you. I'm really pleased with their progress so far. I found a small green bug in there.






So I dosed the leaves with SM-90. I hope it helps. Tomorrow or the next day I will change the res.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 8, 2010)

The digital ballasts are causing problems with the nute monitor. Are there better monitors that are more resistant?

Found this sticker and I thought it was appropriate  Now I have to grow a diesel strain on my next run! lol


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## 808Bubbler (Jan 8, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Here is a pic update
> 
> 2000 WATTS MF! mooohooohoohahahhaaaaahaaaahahaha
> 
> ...



wow man your shit looks legit. if only everybody put this amount of time and money into their grow rooms. can&#699;t wait to see them in full bloom.


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## raulhawkins718 (Jan 8, 2010)

awesome man


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## smokingrubber (Jan 9, 2010)

I ordered the next batch of seeds. I got:
6 "Michelle Moist" by Porno Seeds
1 "LA Woman" by DNA (repeat)
1 "Skunk #1" by G13
1 "Rocklock" by DNA
1 "Lemon Skunk" by DNA (repeat)
1 "Sharksbreath" by DNA

All feminized of course. I'll start all those in about 2 or 3 weeks  and flower the best 8 or 10.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 9, 2010)

I wasn't sure I would have the selection I desired so I ordered an extra set of seeds. I will mix & match them to germ about 12, then I'll save the rest for my 3rd run. Right now attitude has a great free-seed offer so it was worth the extra $22 in shipping for 2 seperate orders  Here's what I ordered:

10 "Super Lemon Haze" by Greenhouse Seeds (2008 Canibis Cup, Landslide Winner)
1 "Kandy Kush" by DNA
1 "LA Woman" by DNA
1 "Skunk #1" by G13
1 "Rocklock" by DNA
1 "Lemon Skunk" by DNA
1 "Sharksbreath" by DNA

Bonus: 1 XXL T-Shirt with ea order 

So now I'll have two of each of those bottom ones. Those are ALL supposed to be top shelf shit. I can't wait.


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## Johnou833 (Jan 9, 2010)

Very nice! Will be watching


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## smokingrubber (Jan 9, 2010)

Welcome to my grow. I'd pass you this little peace pipe if I could  Welcome to RIU!


So Im kinda banished to my room for the day again. Hiding kinda. Ive been playing with a spreadsheet of strains Ive got ordered. I shoulda maybe done the spreadsheet before I ordered the fukrs . . . but did I mention this little peace pipe? This is what I got.







The only real odd duck it seems is the SLH. And I've got 10 of them coming. And that may be the best of them. I've got time time to chew on it. What experiences can anyone share about any of these strains?

My issue is drying space. I may need to dry the plants in the tent and I can't do that if they're not all done at the same time. Trying to plan this shit a little. I've already got the top 4 plants growing and you can see they're not going to finish at the same time.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 9, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Welcome to my grow. I'd pass you this little peace pipe if I could  Welcome to RIU!
> 
> 
> So Im kinda banished to my room for the day again. Hiding kinda. Ive been playing with a spreadsheet of strains Ive got ordered. I shoulda maybe done the spreadsheet before I ordered the fukrs . . . but did I mention this little peace pipe? This is what I got.
> ...


I'm also debating drying in the tent or not, but I'd encourage you to check out Al B. Fuct's dryer box - pretty simple, just a Rubbermaid with a fan and a heating element.


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## 808Bubbler (Jan 9, 2010)

i want to grow something called brainstorm haze. it looks amazing but idk any of its info


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## That 5hit (Jan 10, 2010)

i love this + rep


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## smokingrubber (Jan 10, 2010)

That 5hit said:


> i love this + rep


Thanks. Its the little scale icon above one of my posts.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 10, 2010)

What's that George Michael song? "I have SEX ba-be . . . I have sex ba-be" something like that LOL  I'm 8 for 8 Houston. All systems GO! It's a good feeling to see your first set of hairs hehehe. This is cool too


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## smokingrubber (Jan 10, 2010)

I just couldn't resist the smokin deal they have at Attitude right now. I bought 6 Chocolope by DNA hehehe. Of course it comes with another 6 free seeds and a tshirt 

That'll give me 3 each of the Sharksbreath, Lemon Skunk, Rocklock, LA Woman & Skunk #1. I should have enough seeds to keep my quiver full for the next 4 or 5 months 

I can't wait for my NEXT grow and this one hasn't even gotten to the best parts yet lol. Can you tell Im a noob?


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## Quemado (Jan 11, 2010)

Nice Grow. I have the GL145 and the EBB n Gro in process of getting everything set up. I was looking for pics of your ventilation system. What how do you have your inline fans and air filter set up? Are your temps cool enough without an AC?


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## smokingrubber (Jan 11, 2010)

My temp stay at about 5-7 degrees warmer than the garage the tent is in. My air system breaks down like this:

Primary Exhaust: 8" 600 cfm (max) inline fan. Sucking air through the carbon filter - exhausting through the roof vent on the opposite side of the house. 6" duct from the filter to the fan, w/ 8" from the fan to the roof. Controlled by a variable-speed thermostat.

Primary Intake: 6" 250cfm sucking air from closest roof vent and blowing it into the garage. Always on for now.

Hood Light cooling: I have a 180cfm duct booster sucking fresh air from the closest vent. Blowing it into the lights. I will be buying (today) another identical booster fan (25watts) for the other end so there will be one sucking AND one blowing on both ends of the light duct. This is all 6". The exhaust is blowing out into the attic on the opposite side of the house.

I also have two 16" oscillating fans just above the flower canopy. Two small 6" fans jsut eliminating dead spots. One High Output 10" floor fan blowing a steady stream down the middle of all the pots.

So I have a reasonable amount of fresh air entering through the blower. This circulates in the garage and enters the tent from the right-side vents. There is a strong fan on the floor pushing the fresh air down the center toward the dehumidier. The dehumidifier sucks in air from the center and expells it straight up. The two oscillating fans mix it all up above the plants and the warmer air goes out the carbon filter at the top of the tent.

The humidity wasn't a problem until I threw in the HPS bulbs. It's a good thing I bought the dehumidifier when I did. These 8 plants are drinking more than 2 gallons of water a day. And that's even with the dehumidier dumping it's waist water back into the reservior! I water every 3 hours during lights on - never during lights off.

There should be a couple pics of the vetilation setup in the 4x4 back in my journal.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 11, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> My temp stay at about 5-7 degrees warmer than the garage the tent is in. My air system breaks down like this:
> 
> Primary Exhaust: 8" 600 cfm (max) inline fan. Sucking air through the carbon filter - exhausting through the roof vent on the opposite side of the house. 6" duct from the filter to the fan, w/ 8" from the fan to the roof. Controlled by a variable-speed thermostat.
> 
> ...


When it gets cold out and the exhaust fan's thermostat doesn't tell it to run, the fact that the intake fan is constantly on will be an issue for smell prevention - that positive pressure is not a good thing.

If anything, you'd want your exhaust fan to always be on.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 11, 2010)

It has the option of never shutting off at night. I may switch to that. As soon as the morning temps hit though the exhaust comes back on. It hasnt caused any smell issues yet, but it could. Lemme think about it.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 11, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> It has the option of never shutting off at night. I may switch to that. As soon as the morning temps hit though the exhaust comes back on. It hasnt caused any smell issues yet, but it could. Lemme think about it.


Trust me, when those ladies get to stinking in a couple of weeks and there's positive pressure pushing air out of any little hole in the tent that it can find, there's gonna be serious smells escaping.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 11, 2010)

It's not positive pressure in the *tent*, it's positive pressure in the garage (where the tent is). I hear what you're saying though.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 12, 2010)

ALMOST had a catastrophy last night. I was going to bed at about 11:30 and something in the back of my head told me to go check the room. I did, and I found that 1 light was still on! The timers are identical and they both appeared to read the same. I didn't want to screw with it at 11:30 so I just flipped the breaker and went to bed.

The lights were supposed to go out at 10pm so an extra 1½ hours of light probably won't cause too much problem. I am pretty sure this is the first night this occured. I went into the garage yesterday morning before work and the lights WERE out. I think I'm safe. I had to ask a friend to go to my house and manually turn the lights on at 10 today.

I tried to fiddle with it this morning but appears the OTHER one is broken now! I don't know wtf is going on. I didn't want to continue turning the ballasts on and off at 7am. It must be "operator error". I had JUST  my breakfast so I figured I would deal with it later.

I can't wait to retire


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## Bob Smith (Jan 12, 2010)

This may be a silly question, but how come they don't share the same timer?


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## smokingrubber (Jan 12, 2010)

Cuz I don't have a 240v splitter and cuz the timers say that I should run 1000w max ... not 2000w. One timer would be much easier at this point.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 12, 2010)

Did *a quick video*. It's all the rage I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5gU8EDqDkg


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## Bob Smith (Jan 12, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Did a quick video. It's all the rage I guess.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5gU8EDqDkg


Good video, kiddo.

Always weird to hear people's voices - my own still sounds weird to me.

Looking very good though


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## obie83 (Jan 13, 2010)

do you use any co2


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## laserbrn (Jan 13, 2010)

Video looks really good. Seems like you aren't very far along in 12/12 (First week still?) and those plants are already giants. I think you're going to have a forest in there man.

My guess is 2.5 lbs if you can keep it under control. They all look very indica dominant so it shouldn't get too unruly, but it's gonna be a tight pack.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 14, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> Video looks really good. Seems like you aren't very far along in 12/12 (First week still?) and those plants are already giants. I think you're going to have a forest in there man.
> 
> My guess is 2.5 lbs if you can keep it under control. They all look very indica dominant so it shouldn't get too unruly, but it's gonna be a tight pack.


Thanks. It was a quick video just cuz everyone else is showing off their stuff. I'll do another one when the budz can be the stars of the show 

Yeah, it was day 10 into flower. And a week of that was under a single MH. I'm seeing a lot of hairs and teeny bud sites. If 9 weeks is XXX porn, this is PG-13 still 

They're getting bigger by the second. I have to raise the lights about 2 inches every day it seems. I've only got about 16 inches left that they can go up. The plants are about 12 inches from the light. These 8 plants are drinking MORE than 2 gallons of water a day!

I think 2½ lbs is a pretty good guess. I'm hoping for 3 but I won't be disappointed with 2.

Judging by their development so far, I would have to give LA Woman and A-Train *high* marks. They are both definate DO AGAIN plants. I like the way they grow. Dense foliage but still thin enough that there is a lot of growth on the inside. THICK stalks that tell me she's getting ready to hold up some lbs. Lovely plants to grow so far. 

Blue Hash is a plant that likes to grow straight up. My experiment with LST wasn't executed properly with them. I tied them down but released them all when the process was abandoned. This caused all of the shoots to bunch up in a big vertical wad. The center mass is getting little light past the outer leaves and not much inner growth. *The one good plant is the runt.* That's the one that I broke the top off of and now it's got 4 main shoots nicely spread apart. In my notes I will recommend topping Blue Hash not LST in the future. 

The Lemon Skunk is a sativa and it appears to be doing well. Not fantastic or very impressive like ATrain, but it will still be a very good plant and it'll be some nice change-up bud. It's got some room to spread out and fill in so it could easily be 2-3 zips dried. We'll see.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 14, 2010)

*$434 electric bill*. OMG! And I had the 2000w running for only half that billing period. Holy crap. I'm going to have to find some idigent person and put the bill in their name just for the cheaper rates.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 14, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> *$434 electric bill*. OMG! And I had the 2000w running for only half that billing period. Holy crap. I'm going to have to find some idigent person and put the bill in their name just for the cheaper rates.


Yikes.

With how expensive electric is and how cheap weed is out there (I mean here ), it almost doesn't even make sense to grow.

The electric this way is a 1/4 of that and the weed costs 4X as much.


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## shnkrmn (Jan 14, 2010)

Sorry, I don't have the link but I was shopping around the other day and saw a light sensor switch that flips on when a light comes on. So you could have one light on a timer and the other on this gizmo. So when the timer flips one light on the light causes the sensor to turn the other one on. It was being sold as something to put your fans, etc on, so they would come on when the light timer says.





smokingrubber said:


> Cuz I don't have a 240v splitter and cuz the timers say that I should run 1000w max ... not 2000w. One timer would be much easier at this point.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 14, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Yikes.
> 
> With how expensive electric is and how cheap weed is out there (I mean here ), it almost doesn't even make sense to grow.
> 
> The electric this way is a 1/4 of that and the weed costs 4X as much.


 If I get 2½-3lbs ... the math still looks pretty good from here. Weed ain't THAT cheap.


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## Bob Smith (Jan 15, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> If I get 2½-3lbs ... the math still looks pretty good from here. Weed ain't THAT cheap.


Yeah, the money always seems to work out in the end 

Not sure why I didn't think of this before, but the link below is of a guy who does a very similar setup to you (just with one extra light) - you should check it out, he got ~6lbs. off of 3 1Ks. Was just looking over his thread for something I had asked him earlier and then realized you would probably find it worthwhile to give it a read.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/237271-lucas-formula-hydroponic-grow-journal.html


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## smokingrubber (Jan 18, 2010)

Power outages suck ass! They suck even more when you're not home to deal with it correctly.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 18, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Yeah, the money always seems to work out in the end
> 
> Not sure why I didn't think of this before, but the link below is of a guy who does a very similar setup to you (just with one extra light) - you should check it out, he got ~6lbs. off of 3 1Ks. Was just looking over his thread for something I had asked him earlier and then realized you would probably find it worthwhile to give it a read.
> 
> https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/237271-lucas-formula-hydroponic-grow-journal.html


 
Yeah I've read that thread. Impressive. I don't really believe his final weight report, but even close to that will be nice. 

By the way my room looks now, I could easily believe 3lbs+ when it's all done. We'll see  I don't want to count my chicken before they're hatched. Anything can happen between now and then.

I'm seeing a LOT of new growth in my tent. I had to top LA Woman because she was growing about 4 inches a day. Oh well, it's only one plant and hopefully the other branches will fill in more than they would have. I would estimate that the plants have grown about 12-16 inches in the last week. It's an absolute jungle in there and everything is completely filled in. Every little tip has a beautiful little bud growing on it. It's wonderful. Now I just need the fukrs to slow down on the vertical a little. I can raise the light up another 8 inches and that's it! No more. It's gonna be real close with some of the plants. I'm only on day 17 flower.

Can I super-crop them during flower? That would probably be preferred over chopping the top off (like I did to LA Woman)? I don't want to, but if the height does not slow down I'm gonna have to do something.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 19, 2010)

Yesterday, my power went out for about 4 hours. Right in the middle of my light cycle! My lights went on at 10am, the power went out at 2. Came back on at 6 and the end of my cycle is at 10. (I had to reset all the timers). *How bad is that?*

Everything appears to be back on schedule. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

PS. I haven't received any of my beans yet.


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## laserbrn (Jan 19, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Yesterday, my power went out for about 4 hours. Right in the middle of my light cycle! My lights went on at 10am, the power went out at 2. Came back on at 6 and the end of my cycle is at 10. (I had to reset all the timers). *How bad is that?*
> 
> Everything appears to be back on schedule. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
> 
> PS. I haven't received any of my beans yet.


It's not a big deal. You lost 4 hours of light, but this happens all of the time. The one you have to watch for is the light coming on in the middle of the dark cycle, that's shitty.

To the plants its as if a storm rolled by and it was dark, if the lights come on in the middle of the night it's like the sun came up in middle of the night...little stressfull.

It's more complicated than that, but that's a simple way to look at it. As long as the plants receive 12 hours of interrupted darkness they will be just fine.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks Laser. It was really dark in the garage so I was a little worried. A few weeks ago, while I was remodeling the garage, I had to put the plants on the patio. It was an overcast day but the patio still STANK. This time, I thought the same thing would happen since the fans were not running. But there was no smell at all. Well there was a little smell, but not STANKY like it was when it was on the patio. I assumed it was because photosysnthisis completely shut down. That's the part that has me concerned about the extended dark period.

But like you said, at least they still got their 12 hours of dark. It may have set them back a little by messing with their internal clock, but probably not severe. It would have been worse if I were still vegging.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 20, 2010)

I haven't done pics in a few days, so check it out. They're growing like WEEDS LOL!







Check out the FAT stalks on Blue Hash. She's easy to spot, her stalks look like broomsticks! She's definately getting ready to "Hang Weight" 

I've strapped the light to the roof. I can raise it another 2 inches, but that's IT. I hope that's enough.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 20, 2010)

The lights just went out so I thought I would sneek in there and get some *green* pics.


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## laserbrn (Jan 21, 2010)

Man, that room is STUFFED. Make sure you find a way to get good airflow down in the lower part of that canopy. You are going to be sitting on a SHIT TON of popcorn buds from not trimming those bottoms.

You're going to be sitting on SHIT TON of buds too, I just hate the lower ones and they are a biproduct of stuffin' a room and not trimming. 

It looks like this is going to be a wild ride, many big nugz in your future.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 21, 2010)

Yesterday was my first attempt at trimming up some of the lower fan leaves. Took out the big-easy-to-fall-off ones mostly. I got about 2 good handfulls. 

I know, I hate trimming all of those popcorn buds, they take way longer than the tops and they're no-where near as fun. BUT since I'm a relative noob and I didn't want to go thrashing around with sharp objects . . . I figured it was best to watch and learn. Basically, since I didn't know _what_ to cut, I didn't cut nothin!

Plus, I wasn't freaking intending on stuffin the room! That's only 8 god damn plants!!!! But whats a feller to do?  They just fukn grew huge! ... Bastards! LOL I've had worse problems in my life though


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## laserbrn (Jan 21, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Yesterday was my first attempt at trimming up some of the lower fan leaves. Took out the big-easy-to-fall-off ones mostly. I got about 2 good handfulls.
> 
> I know, I hate trimming all of those popcorn buds, they take way longer than the tops and they're no-where near as fun. BUT since I'm a relative noob and I didn't want to go thrashing around with sharp objects . . . I figured it was best to watch and learn. Basically, since I didn't know _what_ to cut, I didn't cut nothin!
> 
> Plus, I wasn't freaking intending on stuffin the room! That's only 8 god damn plants!!!! But whats a feller to do?  They just fukn grew huge! ... Bastards! LOL I've had worse problems in my life though


It's a good problem to have. I didn't trim my first 7 or 8 crops, then after I did one I never looked back. Jesus I hate that little popcorn shit. I'm going to have a bunch of it this grow too, so I guess we'll just have to keep our scissors sharp when the time comes.


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## 808Bubbler (Jan 21, 2010)

the main stem on those plants are huge!!! can&#699;t wait to see them when they&#699;re ripe.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 22, 2010)

808Bubbler said:


> the main stem on those plants are huge!!! can&#699;t wait to see them when they&#699;re ripe.


ME TOO 

I spent some time yesterday getting all of my ventilation finalized. Now my light fan (200cfm) cuts out if the temps get below 70. My primary fresh air intake got a new HO 6" Can Fan w/ speed controller. Everything should be working at optimum levels now.

I think my room is DONE. There is nothing left on my to-do list. It's time to close the checkbook and wait for harvest  And the next harvest ... and the next one


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## Quemado (Jan 23, 2010)

I saw your Nutrient ph/ppm/temp meter. Who makes it? And how do you like it? I've been researching to throw one in the barrel. Are your inline fans (lights/ ventilation) outside of the tent?


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## smokingrubber (Jan 23, 2010)

Quemado said:


> I saw your Nutrient ph/ppm/temp meter. Who makes it? And how do you like it? I've been researching to throw one in the barrel. Are your inline fans (lights/ ventilation) outside of the tent?


This is the one I have http://www.horticulturesource.com/control-wizard-cw-24-7-nutrient-monitor-ppm-ph-temperature-p1897/

It's not bad. It was better before I installed the Digital Ballasts. Now it's interfered with. I don't know, maybe any monitor would be getting interfered with. Also, the display is too bright. It's outside my tent so that's not a big problem, but it does light up the garage at night. And if you look at it from a certain angle, you can't see it all. So I got what I paid for imo. I now only pay attention to the meter when the lights are off, and it works pretty good that way so it's not too big a deal.

Yes, all of my fans are outside of my tent. The primary exhaust is the only one even visable. The other 3 fans are all up in the attic  I can't see 'em OR hear 'em.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 25, 2010)

Cleaned the reservior last night before I went to bed. When I got up this morning, the barrel was full of crystal clear RO water  I plugged everything in and *dosed* that mf. The girls should be getting ready for their first sip at any moment.

"Drink up girlies ... Daddy loves you"


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## smokingrubber (Jan 25, 2010)

I got my last package of beans. All present and accounted for I think. Maybe even a few extra. Will they last 6 months or more since I can't use them all right now?






Look at the tiger stripes on Michele Moist






I thought I would show you the view from the window.











Time to seriously plan my next grow, now that I've got all the players 

PS. Next time I'm ordering a mug. Attitude's t-shirts have been sucking the last couple months.


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## 808Bubbler (Jan 25, 2010)

ahh super lemon haze. can&#699;t wait to buy those seeds in a few months. I&#699;m digging that Michelle Moist lol. How did you make your decisions on the strains you got??? Just wondering...


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## smokingrubber (Jan 25, 2010)

808Bubbler said:


> ahh super lemon haze. can&#699;t wait to buy those seeds in a few months. I&#699;m digging that Michelle Moist lol. How did you make your decisions on the strains you got??? Just wondering...


Mostly off the ratings at Attitude. Super Lemon Haze won a few Cannibis Cups, so how bad can it be? I heard someone mention porno seeds once and they had just come to Attitude so I figured I would roll the dice. I just went a little crazy lokking at all of the seeds I wanted, then I started looking for ones that would go well with others that I got... anyway I still can't decide what to run next LOL.

I had to send in my diver to clear out some of the used bits.


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## NewGrowth (Jan 25, 2010)

Looking awesome man!


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## smokingrubber (Jan 25, 2010)

NewGrowth said:


> Looking awesome man!


Thank you, your new setup looks like it was pimped out by Cheech himself


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## smokingrubber (Jan 26, 2010)

T-Minus *30 days* ... and counting  The last month is the fun part of growing.


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## edux10 (Jan 26, 2010)

looking nice son!!! that is a 4x8 tent tho right?


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## smokingrubber (Jan 26, 2010)

Yes, I started in a 4x4 (thread title) but upgraded right when I went to flower. Now my 4x4 is packed away and waiting for the day I set up a seperate veg tent.


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## 808Bubbler (Jan 27, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Mostly off the ratings at Attitude. Super Lemon Haze won a few Cannibis Cups, so how bad can it be? I heard someone mention porno seeds once and they had just come to Attitude so I figured I would roll the dice. I just went a little crazy lokking at all of the seeds I wanted, then I started looking for ones that would go well with others that I got... anyway I still can't decide what to run next LOL.
> 
> i feel you on that one. it&#699;s hard trying to decide what to grow. i know i&#699;m growing SLH though just because it won a few CC&#699;s. but other than that it&#699;s all the same to me. maybe sour d. i want to pick things that nobody has ever heard of while at the same time keeping them as potent as possible.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 27, 2010)

It's hard to know what's going to be good. Everyone around here is growing Diesel and Kush. It's a little bit of name recognition, but most poeple I mess with know what good weed looks and smells like. They grow Diesel because of the way it grows and they grow Kush because it always sells.

I want to grow something different because I'm SO TIRED of Kush and Diesel. They're growing Grape Ape around here too, but I'm not tired of that yet  There are a few stragglers growing Headband or Green Crack, but I want some exotic shit. I can't wait to try the Chocolope and Lemon Haze. 

No one around here (that I know) really messes with seeds off the internet. I think that's kind of an unknown even for a lot of the old-school growers. They know A LOT of shit so it's kinda cool to kick it with em. The only problem is, I can't say shit! No really, the joint goes around the table a couple times and I'm reduced to "listen-mode". From what I can remember, hanging with them is very educational. Every time I leave there, I walk away dizzy as fuck LOL. Maybe it's the mountain air... I don't know. Good times


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## 808Bubbler (Jan 27, 2010)

i feel you though. everybody around where i stay all talk about sour d and purp. (they&#699;re black, not racist at all just saying....) so they only smoke what the rappers smoke. so im trying to spice it up a lil bit and grow stuff like brainstorm haze. just random shit so people know that there ARE other strains out there that are just as good. 

it&#699;s amazing to hear people talk about how good their weed is here. (NC, USA) when in reality they&#699;re all getting jipped for their money because it&#699;s so dry here. I don&#699;t need the money because i got a job so i&#699;m going to show the people here how weed is SUPPOSED to look and not sell it for $25 A GRAM of some shit that looks like it&#699;s been touched and examined by some lame teenage dealer that gets bored so he just looks at his weed. my shit will be untouched (to an extent) and uncompressed. the way it&#699;s supposed to be.


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## smokingrubber (Jan 31, 2010)

They are coming along nicely. I will get a green shot later. Day 30. 33 to go


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## Bob Smith (Feb 1, 2010)

Looking good, buddy - nice bud development for only 4.5 weeks.


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## laserbrn (Feb 1, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> They are coming along nicely. I will get a green shot later. Day 30. 33 to go


Very nice. Things look good, you're on the track...


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## green as grass (Feb 1, 2010)

looks nice. cant wait to see em in a few more weeks. what nutes were you using again? and how does one pay for the seeds? money order?


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## green as grass (Feb 1, 2010)

my bad went back and re read what your using for nutes


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## MatanuskaValley (Feb 1, 2010)

green as grass said:


> my bad went back and re read what your using for nutes


Nice grow subscribed!


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## smokingrubber (Feb 1, 2010)

> Looking good, buddy - nice bud development for only 4.5 weeks.


Thanks. I kept thinking I was at 5½ weeks for some reason. I was expecting to see the 6wk explosion any second . I guess I have another week to wait.




> Very nice. Things look good, you're on the track...


Thank you, good to know. I'm getting a bit worried about the height. Not knowing how big some of these colas are going to get has me a little worried.

Does anyone know what I should do about light burn issues? The tip of a couple tall buds look like they have a little white fur ball on the tip. Should I top them?



> looks nice. cant wait to see em in a few more weeks. what nutes were you using again? and how does one pay for the seeds? money order?


GH 3-part nutes. I use the full recipe ... plus Silicosis, SM-90, and H2o2. Then, for addbacks I use FloraNova Bloom & H2o2. Complete dump, clean and refill every 12 days.

Pay with credit card, get the breeder's pack and the tshirt. 

If you order this weekend at attitude, they include 3 xtra beans from Green House Seeds with every order. So if you order 6 beans, you'll get 5 or 6 freebies ... all from GHS. They're having a GHS special thing this coming weekend only. I might have to stock up some more. I've been waiting for Reserva Privada to get OG 18 back in stock (its not yet).


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## Bob Smith (Feb 1, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Thank you, good to know. I'm getting a bit worried about the height. Not knowing how big some of these colas are going to get has me a little worried.
> 
> Does anyone know what I should do about light burn issues? The tip of a couple tall buds look like they have a little white fur ball on the tip. Should I top them?


I had the same issue with my plants that were light-burned - they all developed that white fur ball that you're talking about.

That being said, I'd try to bend them down a little if possible - they're most likely done their stretch at 4.5 weeks, so if it's not too bad looking right now, I wouldn't sweat it too much - how far from the light are they?

Off topic, you might've convinced me to go with a massive water chiller, but I've (shocker) got some questions - any advice over in my journal would be welcome.


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## green as grass (Feb 1, 2010)

where the heck is this subscribe button?


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## smokingrubber (Feb 1, 2010)

green as grass said:


> where the heck is this subscribe button?


LOL, responding to any thread automatically subscribes you to that thread. Now when anyone posts here, it will pop up on your My Rollitup screen.


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## NewGrowth (Feb 1, 2010)

I agree with bob they look like they are done stretching for the most part. Looks awesome too! I would not top em, just tie them down or something . . .


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## smokingrubber (Feb 2, 2010)

Here are some pics with the lights off and a couple just as they are coming back on. 

Pic 1: A-Train
Pic 2: A-Train close up
Pic 3: LA Woman burned tops - 1 supercropped
Pic 4: LA Woman close up of white tip
Pic 5: Blue Hash
Pic 6: Blue Fruity AKA. Scud Missles (did I mention I had an alien in here?)
Pic 7: Lights coming on, they are tied up as high as they can go.
Pic 8: Look at the big A in the A-Train hehehe

So you can see I've had to bend LA Woman over a couple times (story of my life ). I also topped her once about 2 weeks ago. She was getting roudy. So it is what it is with that bitch. She still looks pretty damn good where she's not bleached or burnt. *What should I do about the little white balls of hair at the tip? Should I cut those off?*


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## smacc46 (Feb 2, 2010)

Man...I dont even know where to start...very impressive....im getting ready to help a friend set up his tent once he gets it...he is undecided on what to get...a 4x4 or the 4x8 that you have there...if he goes with the 4x4 he wants to get 2 of them eventually and use one coe vegging and the other to flower allowing him to crop almost every month depending on what he grows....what do you think...just lookin for ideas...and info...but im lookin forward to see what u come out of here with....i been lookin at that system at the hydro store for a while...i think im sold on it now...


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## smokingrubber (Feb 2, 2010)

Thank you.

I'm going to be building a new laboratory for a friend of mine in about 3 weeks. We're going to use two 4x9 tents for flowering every month and one 4x4 to veg for them both (only need about 3-4 weeks veg). I'll be doing a journal for it in a couple weeks. We just overdosed his credit card today 

I look forward to reading about your grow. Good luck.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 3, 2010)

whats up smoke dawg, that light bleeching is a bitch ehh? your gonna have to supercrop/bend those colas down at first site of bleeching, this is why Mo Green dont like 1000's. that white top will be crumbled up burnt bud in 2 weeks, everything else looks phenominal, no pix of you doing an oil change under there? xD


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## shnkrmn (Feb 3, 2010)

Nice to see those pix of the A-train. Will you be happy with the yield from that strain?


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## Bob Smith (Feb 3, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I'm going to be building a new laboratory for a friend of mine in about 3 weeks. We're going to use two 4x9 tents for flowering every month and one 4x4 to veg for them both (only need about 3-4 weeks veg). I'll be doing a journal for it in a couple weeks. We just overdosed his credit card today
> 
> I look forward to reading about your grow. Good luck.


Hey Smoking, how come two 4x9 tents and not one 10x10 tent?

I'm guessing that the power availability in there is making you have to alternate the flower timing?

Because if not, I think one 10x10 with all 4 1Ks in it would be MUCH more efficient, and would yield you more then two 4x9 tents.

Just think of that light distribution, and the money saved from only one dehumidifer, one atmospheric controller, etc.

Something like this (well, exactly this):

http://www.cdgrowlight.com/Indoor-Growing-Products/Environmental-Control/Dark-Room-DR300-Indoor-Grow-Chamber


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## smokingrubber (Feb 3, 2010)

1. 4x9 is easier to maintain and access.
2. Alternating cycles require individual environment conditions. ie I might turn the lights back to 8 hrs during the last 2 weeks of flower.
3. Opposing tents in the garage with an isle down the middle looks better than one big fukr.
4. The small 4x4 veg tent will be the last to go up. We will start both crops vegging in their 4x9 and continue on to flower. One crop will be a 12 week variety (SLH) and the other an 8 week chop. That will kick off the atlernating month of harvests.
5. It's always nice to have a backup flower room.

It is almost double the investment without double the yield. But the trade off is hopefully stability, convenience and consistancy. Plus, we already bought everything


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## smokingrubber (Feb 3, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Nice to see those pix of the A-train. Will you be happy with the yield from that strain?


Definately I'll be happy with the yield. It looks like they will be the highest yielding plants in my garden. I love them so much, I just germinated 5 more for my next cycle.

I will be flowering 4 A-Train & 4 Chocolope next, as soon as this cycle is chopped and dried.


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## Bob Smith (Feb 3, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> 1. 4x9 is easier to maintain and access.
> 2. Alternating cycles require individual environment conditions. ie I might turn the lights back to 8 hrs during the last 2 weeks of flower.
> 3. Opposing tents in the garage with an isle down the middle looks better than one big fukr.
> 4. The small 4x4 veg tent will be the last to go up. We will start both crops vegging in their 4x9 and continue on to flower. One crop will be a 12 week variety (SLH) and the other an 8 week chop. That will kick off the atlernating month of harvests.
> ...


Ahhh, gotcha - makes sense; sometimes I forget that there are people who actually grow more then one strain 

BTW, been having an (what I find to be) insightful and informative email exchange with someone over at Hydro Innovations - I'll post the entire exchange in my journal (or maybe in the "Chiller" thread) once I've received an answer to my latest (and hopefully last) query.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 3, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Ahhh, gotcha - makes sense; sometimes I forget that there are people who actually grow more then one strain
> 
> BTW, been having an (what I find to be) insightful and informative email exchange with someone over at Hydro Innovations - I'll post the entire exchange in my journal (or maybe in the "Chiller" thread) once I've received an answer to my latest (and hopefully last) query.


Yes we're hoping to have 3 or 4 strains going at all times. At least until we can identify the strains that we really like. Right now it's still a gamble so we can't put all our eggs in one basket (strain).

I can't wait to read your exchange. For now, we've decided to build an open-loop system. When the summer months come, we'll revisit the design and maybe add Co2 and chillers. For the next few months it's going to be no hotter than 75 so we might as well use it.


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## Bob Smith (Feb 3, 2010)

Posted it in the "Chiller" thread - I think there's some worthwhile info in there for you.


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## shnkrmn (Feb 3, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Definately I'll be happy with the yield. It looks like they will be the highest yielding plants in my garden. I love them so much, I just germinated 5 more for my next cycle.
> 
> I will be flowering 4 A-Train & 4 Chocolope next, as soon as this cycle is chopped and dried.


Next question; have you cloned a-train, or are you just cracking beans for every run? I'm much better at cloning than seed propagation!

Your statement re yield has knocked my decision making process backwards. I was going to grow Chronic first for the large yield, but I really want to grow the A-train. I worry about growing two strains together that I haven't run before. You haven't had situations where one strain just isn't happy under the same conditions as another?


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## smokingrubber (Feb 3, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Next question; have you cloned a-train, or are you just cracking beans for every run? I'm much better at cloning than seed propagation!
> 
> Your statement re yield has knocked my decision making process backwards. I was going to grow Chronic first for the large yield, but I really want to grow the A-train. I worry about growing two strains together that I haven't run before. You haven't had situations where one strain just isn't happy under the same conditions as another?


Yes I'm cracking new seeds every time. I don't have a good area set aside for clones or mothers yet, and I don't want to veg them for 2 months anyway. In a year or so, I will get that ironed out. For now, I'm still searching for the strains that enjoy life in my system.

I've had strains that did not enjoy everything they got at my other grow. That's why I'm doing the proven A-Train and a relative unknown Chocolope. If Choco sucks, at least I know half the crop will thrive. Plus, I could alway kick some out and let the happy ones spread out wider. 

The trick is the timing. You have to find strains that finish at the same time. That's a reason I'm going to do 2 tents. One tent can handle the extra long 12 week conisour strains, while the other handles the quick commercial crops.


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## geekin69 (Feb 3, 2010)

I just caught up on this grow. +Rep on pretty much everything. Its lookin realllly good as of right now. I've heard a lot of great things about chocolope, but if you think you have height issues now, then I'd think twice before lettin some sativas unleash in there.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 3, 2010)

geekin69 said:


> I just caught up on this grow. +Rep on pretty much everything. Its lookin realllly good as of right now. I've heard a lot of great things about chocolope, but if you think you have height issues now, then I'd think twice before lettin some sativas unleash in there.


Thank you. The A-Train I've got going now are 90% sativa. I didn't realize that until recently, but I will get on top of the height issues sooner next time. Grow and learn.

EDIT: I just looked it up again. A-Train is 60/40 Indica/Sativa. It has sativa leaves, with Indica girth.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 3, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> I had the same issue with my plants that were light-burned - they all developed that white fur ball that you're talking about.
> 
> That being said, I'd try to bend them down a little if possible - they're most likely done their stretch at 4.5 weeks, so if it's not too bad looking right now, I wouldn't sweat it too much - how far from the light are they?


They're as close as 10 inches (25cm) but most are around 13 inches (33cm). The stretch is definately over. Now the buds are swelling and the tips are creeping into the danger zone. *Should I top the little white tips?*


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Here are some pics with the lights off and a couple just as they are coming back on.
> 
> Pic 1: A-Train
> Pic 2: A-Train close up
> ...


 Damn I am so jelous!!! I cant wait till the clones get that big!! Time to Get your clippers ready!! i have 24 more days to go on my flower room. Cant wait to get these starins going!


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## HomeGrown420baby (Feb 4, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Here are some pics with the lights off and a couple just as they are coming back on.
> 
> Pic 1: A-Train
> Pic 2: A-Train close up
> ...



sup smokinggrubber ur plants are looking real nice..hey what size tent is that? how much did u pay and how do u like it? is it cramped? im about to buy a tent so im just asking some questions


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## smokingrubber (Feb 4, 2010)

HomeGrown420baby said:


> sup smokinggrubber ur plants are looking real nice..hey what size tent is that? how much did u pay and how do u like it? is it cramped? im about to buy a tent so im just asking some questions


Thank you. My tent is a GrowLAB GL145L (4'9"x9'6") I like it a lot, except I wouldn't mind if it were 6" taller. I paid $640 out the door. It's only cramped because I've got it stuffed with marijuana plants


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## HomeGrown420baby (Feb 4, 2010)

dddaammmnn 640..i see tents online for like under 100..ur tent must be hella bigger then those ones or some shit..what size tent would be good for a 600w or 1000w and like 10plants at a time? any ideas?


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## mrgranddaddypurple2 (Feb 4, 2010)

i started to look at your post bc i have a 4x4 tent but did you outclass me fast. you have a great setup. cant waite to see harvest.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 4, 2010)

mrgranddaddypurple2 said:


> i started to look at your post bc i have a 4x4 tent but did you outclass me fast. you have a great setup. cant waite to see harvest.


Thank you, I outgrew the 4x4 quicker than I thought I would. I can't go back and change the title of the thread. If I were still just using the 4x4, I would only have room for 4 plants. Of course, every system is different. I'm using the CAP Ebb & Gro buckets (hydro). I can't wait to see it either


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## smokingrubber (Feb 4, 2010)

HomeGrown420baby said:


> dddaammmnn 640..i see tents online for like under 100..ur tent must be hella bigger then those ones or some shit..what size tent would be good for a 600w or 1000w and like 10plants at a time? any ideas?


In most cases, you get what you pay for. I could have built a custom room for FAR cheaper, but that's not what I want to do in this rental. I like that fact that it's self-contained, sturdy, insulated, accessable, convenient, portable and ... pretty. I saw those same cheap tents, but I'm the type of guy that likes to buy the good tools. 

I'm getting my money's worth btw


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## Quemado (Feb 4, 2010)

Whats your flooding schedule? Do you flood when the lights are off? I'm trying to get an idea. Your grows have been really nice.


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## smacc46 (Feb 4, 2010)

what kind of tent do you have...i mean i know there are a fewe out there...sun hut and dark rooms and a few others...just curious


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## smokingrubber (Feb 4, 2010)

Quemado said:


> Whats your flooding schedule? Do you flood when the lights are off? I'm trying to get an idea. Your grows have been really nice.


In the flowering stage I am flooding every 3 hrs (5 times). No I do not flood during the dark time. My last flood is at the same time as lights out though.



smacc46 said:


> what kind of tent do you have...i mean i know there are a fewe out there...sun hut and dark rooms and a few others...just curious


I have 2 GrowLAB tents. (The 4x4 is put away for now)


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## Maheim (Feb 4, 2010)

Hey man I like your set up. I am in a 4x4x7 ft tent my self. Good job on the RO system. I lucked up and the house I bought came with one installed at the kitchen sink. my tent is setup upstairs in a bedroom, so not only do I have to wait forever to get the desired amount of water but I have to haul it up a bunch of stairs. I see yoru in your garage. Watch your temp. I always find it hard to regulate the temp in the garage. If you have problems in this area, check out your resources at home depot. Room AC and Heaters that are not window units. They can sit in the middle of the room. Some of their heaters produce CO2....thats a perk in your situation!

I will be following to see how it goes


Good Luck!!!


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## smokingrubber (Feb 4, 2010)

Maheim said:


> Hey man I like your set up. I am in a 4x4x7 ft tent my self. Good job on the RO system. I lucked up and the house I bought came with one installed at the kitchen sink. my tent is setup upstairs in a bedroom, so not only do I have to wait forever to get the desired amount of water but I have to haul it up a bunch of stairs. I see yoru in your garage. Watch your temp. I always find it hard to regulate the temp in the garage. If you have problems in this area, check out your resources at home depot. Room AC and Heaters that are not window units. They can sit in the middle of the room. Some of their heaters produce CO2....thats a perk in your situation!
> 
> I will be following to see how it goes
> 
> ...


Yeah I'm planning on an AC before summer. I live in a very moderate climate and my fresh air intake is running @ 6" 250cfm. Mother nature threw me a bone and I've got to use it... till she gets pissed one day.

Your RO unit can have a VERY long line off it. Run it upstairs and put the shutoff valve up there  If you have problems in this area, check out your resources at home depot.


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## Quemado (Feb 5, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> In the flowering stage I am flooding every 3 hrs (5 times). No I do not flood during the dark time. My last flood is at the same time as lights out though.
> 
> 
> 
> I have 2 GrowLAB tents. (The 4x4 is put away for now)


Right on thanks. How bout your veg schedule


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## smokingrubber (Feb 5, 2010)

Quemado said:


> Right on thanks. How bout your veg schedule


Depends on how old they are. I start them off w/ 1 flood a day until they have roots down in the hydroton. Then I bump it up to 2 floods a day. When the roots are down in the bottom of the bucket, I bump it up the 3 times. They stay at 3x till about 1 week into floweringing, then it's 5x.

I'm no expert. This was my first grow w/ this system. That's just what I did and I will probably do it again just because it worked.

FYI, when I put them into the system for the first time they were about 3 weeks old (from seed). When I added the nutes I also flooded the crap out of the buckets one time. It was an accident, but it soaked the rockwool with nute solution pretty good and I saw a quick growth spurt afterward. I will plan to flood them again just like last time.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 6, 2010)

It's been a real land race up in there lately. I was kinda writing Blue Hash off because she was really short and in the back, and didn't appear that the buds were fattening up much. Last night I spread her apart and found she is FULL of buds! She's gone from dead last in the race, to possibly the front runner. Absolutely amazing. We trimmed out some of the fan leaves hiding the interior buds. WOW is all I can say. The buds are small but rock hard... they look and feel like fat hairy gumballs. My next picture update will include some extensive pics of Blue Hash. 

I might have to buy more of those beans today 

...

You know how a dog shakes his leg when you scratch his spot? That's the way I feel when I smell Lemon Skunk


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## BigSkyBudTHC (Feb 6, 2010)

hey man whats up. just happened to see your signature in the attitude review thread and saw the A-Train. 

cant wait to read the journal later tonight. how do you like the A-train so far? not many people growing it yet.

subscribe plus rep.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 6, 2010)

BigSkyBudTHC said:


> hey man whats up. just happened to see your signature in the attitude review thread and saw the A-Train.
> 
> cant wait to read the journal later tonight. how do you like the A-train so far? not many people growing it yet.
> 
> subscribe plus rep.


So far she's a winner. I will definately do her again soon! Very very very proper huge dense nugs developing. She's a perfect SOG plant imo. Thanks for the rep


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## smokingrubber (Feb 6, 2010)

My beans for my next run are giving me problems. Two out of ten sprouted. Two more had significant growth inside the rw but got tangled. I helped them out a bit, so that's only 4 that will probably make it. The rest are now in dixie cups of RO water, and I added two Lemon Skunk beans to the menu. I'm glad I started this a little early.

I bought some BushMaster and Gravity. I also got some FloraKleen for the final flush. I will probably add a weee bit of Gravity to the next rez change (middle of week 5). 

*Can some one tell me whether I should flush this hydro setup right now or not?* I've heard conflicting theories, and I really don't know. If not, I will wait until the last 4 days before harvest.


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## Bob Smith (Feb 6, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> My beans for my next run are giving me problems. Two out of ten sprouted. Two more had significant growth inside the rw but got tangled. I helped them out a bit, so that's only 4 that will probably make it. The rest are now in dixie cups of RO water, and I added two Lemon Skunk beans to the menu. I'm glad I started this a little early.
> 
> I bought some BushMaster and Gravity. I also got some FloraKleen for the final flush. I will probably add a weee bit of Gravity to the next rez change (middle of week 5).
> 
> *Can some one tell me whether I should flush this hydro setup right now or not?* I've heard conflicting theories, and I really don't know. If not, I will wait until the last 4 days before harvest.


You mean flush the plants that are flowering right now?

If so, why would you do that?


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## smokingrubber (Feb 6, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> You mean flush the plants that are flowering right now?
> 
> If so, why would you do that?


Yeah, the ones I don't wanna fuck up! I don't WANT to, but you hear so much cross-information I don't know what to believe. I bought the FloraKleen but I haven't used it yet.


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## Bob Smith (Feb 6, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Yeah, the ones I don't wanna fuck up! I don't WANT to, but you hear so much cross-information I don't know what to believe. I bought the FloraKleen but I haven't used it yet.


I can't see the necessity of flushing unless you've made a mistake - do your plants look unhealthy at all?

My vote is for just waiting until the last few days to flush - just using logic, if your plants aren't telling you that anything's wrong, why would you change things?


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## smokingrubber (Feb 6, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> I can't see the necessity of flushing unless you've made a mistake - do your plants look unhealthy at all?
> 
> My vote is for just waiting until the last few days to flush - just using logic, if your plants aren't telling you that anything's wrong, why would you change things?


Excellent point! Other than the fact they're about 3 inches too tall, they all look very health and happy. Thanks.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 6, 2010)

The March 2010 High Times Centerfold has A-Train & Lemon Skunk pictured. Brilliant! 

Right now, my Lemon Skunk is one of the most amazing smelling plants I've ever smelled. If it finishes with half the flavor it's showing right now, I'm keeping every gram! It's not the most impressive plant to look at in the world, but I've got high hopes for the finished product. Yield will be medium at best, but it smells just like Lemonny Skunky DANK.


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## Easily Amused (Feb 6, 2010)

damn. im liking that tent. might have to get one and get out of my dirt basement to the garage! your grow is coming along good too! im in!


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## BigSkyBudTHC (Feb 7, 2010)

this month is high times big sky country. a look at montana's growing medical marijuana market.

sounds good for next month, cant wait. ordered my A-train today from the attitude and also got a real good freebie, super lemon haze from green house. your lemon skunk x super silver haze= 2008 and 2009 cannabis cup winner super lemon haze. also got bubba kush, kings kush, the church and power kush (i think), all from gh sept last one and atrain (t h seeds).

all feminized seeds also. thought is was a good deal, pay for 5 and get 5 free.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 7, 2010)

BigSkyBudTHC said:


> this month is high times big sky country. a look at montana's growing medical marijuana market.
> 
> sounds good for next month, cant wait. ordered my A-train today from the attitude and also got a real good freebie, super lemon haze from green house. your lemon skunk x super silver haze= 2008 and 2009 cannabis cup winner super lemon haze. also got bubba kush, kings kush, the church and power kush (i think), all from gh sept last one and atrain (t h seeds).
> 
> all feminized seeds also. thought is was a good deal, pay for 5 and get 5 free.


You don't need to tell me LOL. I've already got 3 seperate orders placed, with all of the GHS feebies, and I'm eyeballin one more order! Plus, I've got a 10 pack of SLH sitting in my vault right now.


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## laserbrn (Feb 7, 2010)

WOAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH brakes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm seeing some scary posts here man. Gravity? FloraKleen in the middle flower? 

What did your hydro store guy sell you man? This is why I do hate this industry, this kind of shit is going to kill you.

Don't use gravity, don't use FloraKleen until the very final flush at the end of flower. I use water, call me crazy, but if you got sold FloraKleen then fine.

Gravity is buck wild and some plants love it, some plants just die or shock from it. It burns plants like crazy as it's just very very hot. You have to raise your lights when you use and it's best to finish out your first grow without all the bloom enhancers and other shit you hydro store guy tries to sell you. 

There are some "bloom enhancers" that aren't as buck wild, but Gravity is a monster. We tried it on a few different strains in a friends grow on individual plants and the results varied wildly from strain to strain and from amount to amount. Lights raised and for how long, etc. You won't get it right the first time and you don't want to try it on your entire crop. You would need a baseline to work from anyway to know if it helped or not. You'll be aimlessly adding it the rest of your growing life. One simple hydro grow first, then experiment.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 7, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> WOAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH brakes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I'm seeing some scary posts here man. Gravity? FloraKleen in the middle flower?
> 
> ...


 That sounds wise. I haven't added anything yet so I'm okay. I will wait for the end to flush. I'll also keep the gravity on the shelf. Thanks. Tried to rep you but not enough love for everyone else. Someone do _him_ for me, and I'll do _you_


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## DaGambler (Feb 7, 2010)

*i guess u say it's your 3rd shot at growing... but it looks like the third time is the charm.*

*+rep on doing everything damn near perfect. I could tell you were on the right track when your first post showed an RO unit... very few people are lucky enough to not need one.*

*you got me wanting to read about (and maybe order) some more weed varieties with all these darn strains ur speaking of !! *
*.*


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## smokingrubber (Feb 8, 2010)

DaGambler said:


> *i guess u say it's your 3rd shot at growing... but it looks like the third time is the charm.*
> 
> *+rep on doing everything damn near perfect. I could tell you were on the right track when your first post showed an RO unit... very few people are lucky enough to not need one.*
> 
> ...


Thank you! Glad to have you watching. It helps to have experienced gardeners looking over my shoulder. I'll be sure to keep you posted on all these varieties, they look good on paper 

My first attempt at growing, wasn't really an attempt. Borrowed a friend's light and watered some plants in a barn basically. I just did what he told me to do. I learned a lot about what I didn't want to do!

My second grow wasn't really mine. It was my design and build, but it was my friend's money and his home. That time I learned a little about what did work, and a little more about what didn't.

So yeah this is my 3rd grow. Each has been more succesful than the last. 

Next week I'm starting my 4th grow. The same friend who had my 2nd grow is moving in right next door to me. We're planning his garage grow right now (I'm going to do a growroom thread for the setup). Then I'll use that template to build MY new garage when I move in about 6 months! LOL I never plan that far out so we'll see what happens.

Thanks for following Gambler.


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## Lovin'JK (Feb 9, 2010)

Scribed Scribed


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## smokingrubber (Feb 10, 2010)

Lovin'JK said:


> Scribed Scribed


Welcome Welcome


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## TillthedayiDIE420 (Feb 11, 2010)

Very nice setup. +rep i like those ebb & flow units.


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## FEElAYYY (Feb 11, 2010)

Nice set up man! I cant wait till i get my tent. How big is yours?


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## smokingrubber (Feb 11, 2010)

FEElAYYY said:


> Nice set up man! I cant wait till i get my tent. How big is yours?


Thank you. I have a GrowLab 145L. It is 4'9" x 9'6". In my perfect grow scenario, I will have two of these tents so that I can harvest every month.


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## cazador (Feb 12, 2010)

Scribed


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## smokingrubber (Feb 12, 2010)

A minor scare (hopefully) yesterday. I had changed the res the day before, but I forgot to put the heater's sensor wire back in the res. Yesterday morning, my res was up to 90f. Plus my ppm had climbed to 1750!

I turned on the RO feed to top off the barrel. I didn't have any frozen bottles on hand, so I drank the top 2 inches off 4 water bottles and threw them in the freezer. When I got home after work, I threw the frozen bottles into the res. This morning, everything is back to normal  The ppm is back down to 1450 and the temp is steady 70.

Today is the start of Week 6 for the girls. A-Train looks like she's rippening, but the rest still need to add some weight. I've heard that they explode in week 6, so I'll take pictures tonight and again next week ... we'll see for ourselves  I'm using the Koolbloom by GH but how good is it? Should I switch to BudXL for these last couple weeks?

I didn't flush with the FloraKleen because I was wisely advised to not fuck with what's working. I'll save the flush for the end. BUT, I was reading the bottle of FloraKleen and it suggests that you flush hydroponic systems monthly. Just FYI. I'm only 3 weeks from the final flush anyway, so I will just wait.


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## cazador (Feb 12, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> A minor scare (hopefully) yesterday. I had changed the res the day before, but I forgot to put the heater's sensor wire back in the res. Yesterday morning, my res was up to 90f. Plus my ppm had climbed to 1750!
> 
> I turned on the RO feed to top off the barrel. I didn't have any frozen bottles on hand, so I drank the top 2 inches off 4 water bottles and threw them in the freezer. When I got home after work, I threw the frozen bottles into the res. This morning, everything is back to normal  The ppm is back down to 1450 and the temp is steady 70.
> 
> ...


Can I suggest going lite on the Koolbloom powder, 1/4 -1/2 strength. It is strong and some believe that if used full strength that it turns some strains hermy. I think I've seen this first hand as well luckily it was late in flower, "no" seeds developed. Someone else hear this with Koolbloom powder?


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## Barron (Feb 12, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> I'm using the Koolbloom by GH but how good is it? Should I switch to BudXL for these last couple weeks?
> 
> .



Are you using liquid Koolbloom or the powder?


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## smokingrubber (Feb 13, 2010)

Barron said:


> Are you using liquid Koolbloom or the powder?


I'm using the liquid.


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## milehigh970 (Feb 13, 2010)

awww 43 pages... I'm all caught up! Lol looking good man. We got really similar setups.. I got a gl145 and a 240 ( 8 x 8 ), and am going to install my 18 pot ebb and grow Monday in the 240 under 2 - 1k hps. Just gonna be set up in like a 4 x 8 area until the next expansion of 2 more 1k's and 6 more pots... total of 24 under 4k watts!  I ain't gonna be growin no monsters like you got up in there man! I am also gonna give the lucas formula a run and see if I can cut back on some of the cost of nutes right now.. ill shoot you a link to my journal when I start it and you can see how it goes.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 14, 2010)

milehigh970 said:


> awww 43 pages... I'm all caught up! Lol looking good man. We got really similar setups.. I got a gl145 and a 240 ( 8 x 8 ), and am going to install my 18 pot ebb and grow Monday in the 240 under 2 - 1k hps. Just gonna be set up in like a 4 x 8 area until the next expansion of 2 more 1k's and 6 more pots... total of 24 under 4k watts!  I ain't gonna be growin no monsters like you got up in there man! I am also gonna give the lucas formula a run and see if I can cut back on some of the cost of nutes right now.. ill shoot you a link to my journal when I start it and you can see how it goes.


 
Right on! I can't wait to watch. Trust me, I didn't think I was gonna be growin monsters when I began. I bit off a little more than I could chew, honestly. It's all in the recovery though.

I haven't done pictures in awhile. They're still plugging along. I see em every day so it doesn't look like they're doing much to me. This is right before and during the lights coming on ... just now. *Day 44*.

 It's Daytona time yo!


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## cazador (Feb 14, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Right on! I can't wait to watch. Trust me, I didn't think I was gonna be growin monsters when I began. I bit off a little more than I could chew, honestly. It's all in the recovery though.
> 
> I haven't done pictures in awhile. They're still plugging along. I see em every day so it doesn't look like they're doing much to me. This is right before and during the lights coming on ... just now. *Day 44*.
> 
> It's Daytona time yo!


Looking very nice. 
Are they all standing on their own or do you have them supported at all? I'm having trouble keeping mine upright under their own strength and am now stringing them up to the ceiling. I thought it was because I let them get to tall, then I see yours that look tall to. Yours are also a bit greener down low. How tall are they?


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## smokingrubber (Feb 14, 2010)

cazador said:


> Looking very nice.
> Are they all standing on their own or do you have them supported at all? I'm having trouble keeping mine upright under their own strength and am now stringing them up to the ceiling. I thought it was because I let them get to tall, then I see yours that look tall to. Yours are also a bit greener down low. How tall are they?


No I'm not supporting them at all. I just purchased some sticks incase I have to ... but nothing is too serious. This plant is 56" (142 cm) from the ground to that bud. My tallest plant is about 61" (155 cm).


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## shnkrmn (Feb 14, 2010)

Day 44? Wow!


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## cazador (Feb 14, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> No I'm not supporting them at all. I just purchased some sticks incase I have to ... but nothing is too serious. This plant is 56" (142 cm) from the ground to that bud. My tallest plant is about 61" (155 cm).


Thank's bro. Very nice


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## BigSkyBudTHC (Feb 14, 2010)

nice looking girls man. keep up the good work.


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## [email protected] (Feb 15, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> No I'm not supporting them at all. I just purchased some sticks incase I have to ... but nothing is too serious. This plant is 56" (142 cm) from the ground to that bud. My tallest plant is about 61" (155 cm).


Dude I want mugs like that! Mine are like 2 gram nugs tops lol


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## smokingrubber (Feb 15, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Dude I want mugs like that! Mine are like 2 gram nugs tops lol


You got it  Mother that A-Train


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## smacc46 (Feb 16, 2010)

do you have any light leaks with that tent?


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## smokingrubber (Feb 17, 2010)

Only minor leaks. The tent has horizontal vents running all the way around the lower walls (back and sides). These are screened openings that are covered by a velcro flap. I have my tent sitting about 3 inches off the back wall and only the back vent flaps are open. So if my garage were open and bathed in sunlight, I imagine it wouldn't be completely light-proof on the inside.

When it's pitch black in my garage but the tent lights are still on, I can see pinhole light coming from some of the cable and duct ports. They have drawstring closures, but it's hard to get them completely light proof if there is nothing in the port. I need to stick a coke can in the tube and cinch up on it.

Plus, the windows have velcro all the way around. This makes it easy to close the window and it's completely light-proof. BUT it's also just velcro flaps and if you don't take the time to push it all closed, it's not a refrigerator door.

When I first set up the tent, I noticed a couple small pinholes on a seam or two. I cut small pieces of aluminum tape and slapped it up on the inside of the tent. They're practically invisible unless you look for them. I had to do that in about 3 spots. For sure, none of the zippers leak!

Overall, it's not COMPLETELY light-proof. I would give it a solid 9 out of 10 stars in that category though. I wouldn't put it out in the sun, but it's fine in my garage.


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## Lovin'JK (Feb 17, 2010)

Any pic updates? I wanna see these girls!


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## smokingrubber (Feb 17, 2010)

The pics in post #428 are only 3 days old. If I were at home right now, I would take some pics for you.

UPDATE: I discovered a little bud-rot last night. I only found it on one bud, and I cut it out. I went down to wallmart and got a couple big box fans. I epoxied 4 legs on them and put them in the middle of the tent, facing straight up. I also turned my wall fans up a notch. I will re-inspect everything every night until harvest!

I've got about 2 or 3 weeks till harvest. Tonight I will dump and clean, then refill with the rippening recipe and wait till the flush. It's getting close according to the calander, but only the A-Train looks like it will be ready at the 8 week mark. Everything else will probably take an extra week.


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## Xan2 (Feb 18, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Looking good, it's a finished product at this point
> 
> But as far as the electrical goes, I was wondering exactly what that box that you have in there does, and what value it adds?
> 
> ...



A relay would allow you to use one ballast to run 2 lights 12/12, Day & Night. So basicaly the ballast would be ON 24/7. You can swap your actual circuit and run a double pole circuit and get a 240v feed.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 18, 2010)

Cleaned the reservior last night. This morning I dosed it with the GH Ripen recipe and turned the light cycle back to 8on/16off. Day 49 (if Im supposed to count from 12/12).


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## shnkrmn (Feb 18, 2010)

have you done that short a light cycle before? I've seen threads discussing it, but never saw actual results.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 18, 2010)

No I haven't actually. I read through a grow guide written by the guy from AN and that's what he said to do. I guess it slows new growth and prompts the rest to finish. Makes sense to me, so we'll see how it goes


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## laserbrn (Feb 18, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> No I haven't actually. I read through a grow guide written by the guy from AN and that's what he said to do. I guess it slows new growth and prompts the rest to finish. Makes sense to me, so we'll see how it goes


C'mon...stop playin' around. Leave it on 12/12, what possible good do you think it does to cut back on 4 hours of light per day?


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## smokingrubber (Feb 18, 2010)

I don't really know. A blurb I found on Attitude suggests that you leave the lights off for the last 2 WEEKS! I was like, no fuggn way. I guess it tells the plants that winter is here and we ain't got time for NO new growth. Finish up what we're holding and get paid.

I've heard it more than once. And it makes sense mostly. It won't kill em imo.


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## laserbrn (Feb 18, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> I don't really know. A blurb I found on Attitude suggests that you leave the lights off for the last 2 WEEKS! I was like, no fuggn way. I guess it tells the plants that winter is here and we ain't got time for NO new growth. Finish up what we're holding and get paid.
> 
> I've heard it more than once. And it makes sense mostly. It won't kill em imo.


I know it won't kill'em, but giving up that much light (energy) for two weeks isn't beneficial. I urge you to evaluate whether it's best to make decisions on what you are going to do (especially things that are outside the norms) in terms of nutrients, light schedules and general practices before rushing to be so decisive.

See how much documentation you can find that supports continuing with a 12/12 light schedule and compare that with the documentation you can find that supports the shortened light period theory. I mean, really pile them up next to each other in your mind, why do you feel fascinated with those tiny piles when there is so much information out there that is TRYING to lead you in the right direction?

Why do you feel this need to think "outside the box" when don't yet know what's inside? Find out what's in the box before you work on the problem of how to get out of it.

Good luck to you either way, but you're right, it certainly won't be a cause for them to die.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 18, 2010)

I will definately do more research. From what I've gathered so far though, some experienced growers do it and some don't. No one has warned that it will do anything bad, but I will research it more. Thank you.

PS. Thinking outside the box is super easy when you don't know what's considered IN the box and what's OUT. If it makes sense in smoke-filled room .... well you been there a time or two I bet


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## smokingrubber (Feb 18, 2010)

They're starting to fall over pretty bad. Specially the lemon skunk! (lemme tell you, that bitch smells so nice I don't give a FU<K what I gotta do to prop her ass up!) I'm attaching poles to the pots so I can string up a few heavies. Oh the problems we deal with 

I'm looking at them and they honestly don't look like they're starting the 7th week. I flipped to 12/12 on Jan 1. Someone else mentioned that you should start counting from the day you see sex. Looking back at this journal, that was Jan 10th. So based on that date, I'm at week 5½. I will get pics up this weekend, you'll agree I've got a couple more weeks to go.

I adjusted the light schedule this morning, but I switched them back to 12/12 just now. Too late for today's lights cuz I pushed back this morning's start time back 4 hours. Oh well. Hopefully one day won't cause too much shock.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 18, 2010)

I didn't want to turn the lights off. They're only getting 8hrs of light today. Pre-Porn imo.


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## cannondale5 (Feb 19, 2010)

I have been following since the begining.... I have a few lemon skunk from attitude a week behind yours and I will agree, those ladies smell amazing! It's been great following your grow and I plan on purchasing a tent for the next grow!


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## friendlyfarmer (Feb 20, 2010)

laserbrn said:


> C'mon...stop playin' around. Leave it on 12/12, what possible good do you think it does to cut back on 4 hours of light per day?


Light breaks down THC. This is the same reason that it is best to harvest early in the morning if you aren't going to give them a dark period. Just that little bit extra. I don't know if it is worth it if you aren't trying to win a cup though.


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## laserbrn (Feb 20, 2010)

friendlyfarmer said:


> Light breaks down THC. This is the same reason that it is best to harvest early in the morning if you aren't going to give them a dark period. Just that little bit extra. I don't know if it is worth it if you aren't trying to win a cup though.


You guys are selling crazy. Go ahead and cut back on 4 hours of light during the last 2 weeks, hell why not even run 1/2 the wattage on your lights? Cut back to a 400w HPS instead of thd 1000, I'm sure they'd grow bigger and more resinous like that. Running with 24-48 or even 36 hours of darkness at the end is one thing, running your last 2 weeks (or claimed to be two weeks, who really knows if the plants will be done exactly 2 weeks in advance?) with a reduced light period is flat out silly. There's significant growth and swelling during the final weeks and that can't be done without energy, more energy, more growth.

The one fact that I know that can be quantified is that more light = more bud. No magic solution in a bottle, no home made tricks or magic enzymes or hormone this or any of that shit gives you bigger yields. More LIGHT gives you bigger yields and tighter, denser nugs with more potency. 

To each their own, but I'd bet the extra 56 hours of light you are going to rob would increase quality and quantity far more than this theory can claim.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 20, 2010)

hey Smoke, i just wanted to chime in and say they look excellent, you should pick up a microscope from radio shack, its a 60-100x for like $20. also as regards to your lighting sched, i wouldnt go that low on hours bro, lsrbrn is right, the plant still needs her energy and 12hours is the maximum hours of light before she tries to revert back. for more resin try to go 24-36 hours of darkness before you chop. also if a breeder tells you the strain needs 8 weeks, you need to go atleast 9! dont listen to them, fast finishing strains sell and its a marketing ploy. IME every 8weeker was taking till 10 weeks and still not much amber trichs, one week flush is more than enough IMO, just to help you harvest at the right time, its much easier to look at the trichs and say "i can certainly cut 7 days from now so i will start flush today" as opposed to giving your plants not much wiggle room=2weeks with no nutes on plants that arent ready sucks bro


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 20, 2010)

another tidbit on the flush period, i like to use sweetners like b'cares sweet or floranectar, some flush with it swearing it adds flavor, i have never noticed a sweeter taste, but i did notice better end product, my theory on this is sweets are used for added energy, these added carbs are helping a dying plant live while not adding nutrients, so your plant will still be able to matabolize any minerals stockpiled in her leaves whilst giving an energy boost to help her focus on resin/essential oil production...just my little theory


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## smokingrubber (Feb 20, 2010)

cannondale5 said:


> I have been following since the begining.... I have a few lemon skunk from attitude a week behind yours and I will agree, those ladies smell amazing! It's been great following your grow and I plan on purchasing a tent for the next grow!


Glad to have you along for the ride. I have two Lemon Skunk babies going for my next round too. She's not gonna win the high-yield award, but I involentarilly blow my wad every time I smell her 
-



friendlyfarmer said:


> Light breaks down THC. This is the same reason that it is best to harvest early in the morning if you aren't going to give them a dark period. Just that little bit extra. I don't know if it is worth it if you aren't trying to win a cup though.


I'm definately going to be harvesting first thing in the morning. I was reading that in High Times this morning on the throne. tmi?
-



laserbrn said:


> You guys are selling crazy. Go ahead and cut back on 4 hours of light during the last 2 weeks, hell why not even run 1/2 the wattage on your lights? Cut back to a 400w HPS instead of thd 1000, I'm sure they'd grow bigger and more resinous like that. Running with 24-48 or even 36 hours of darkness at the end is one thing, running your last 2 weeks (or claimed to be two weeks, who really knows if the plants will be done exactly 2 weeks in advance?) with a reduced light period is flat out silly. There's significant growth and swelling during the final weeks and that can't be done without energy, more energy, more growth.
> 
> The one fact that I know that can be quantified is that more light = more bud. No magic solution in a bottle, no home made tricks or magic enzymes or hormone this or any of that shit gives you bigger yields. More LIGHT gives you bigger yields and tighter, denser nugs with more potency.
> 
> To each their own, but I'd bet the extra 56 hours of light you are going to rob would increase quality and quantity far more than this theory can claim.


No need to get upset. I think they've got about 3 weeks to finish. I'm back on 12/12 for another week at least. I may cut the light back by 2 hours, but I am going to do more research between now and then. I've got a good amount of popcorn bud in the lower branches. I don't mind that it's there, but I want it to stop growing new bud and just freakin finish. 

Everything is falling over lately because I turned up the fans and added two box fans underneath. It's a lot to deal with. I love the variety of smells and sights, but 5 strains at once is challenging for a noob like me. I'm learning a lot, but it's still feels kinda uncharted.


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 20, 2010)

tomato cages!, unlike a trellis or net, they allow you to move your pots around and you can do some sick training


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## smokingrubber (Feb 20, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> hey Smoke, i just wanted to chime in and say they look excellent, you should pick up a microscope from radio shack, its a 60-100x for like $20. also as regards to your lighting sched, i wouldnt go that low on hours bro, lsrbrn is right, the plant still needs her energy and 12hours is the maximum hours of light before she tries to revert back. for more resin try to go 24-36 hours of darkness before you chop. also if a breeder tells you the strain needs 8 weeks, you need to go atleast 9! dont listen to them, fast finishing strains sell and its a marketing ploy. IME every 8weeker was taking till 10 weeks and still not much amber trichs, one week flush is more than enough IMO, just to help you harvest at the right time, its much easier to look at the trichs and say "i can certainly cut 7 days from now so i will start flush today" as opposed to giving your plants not much wiggle room=2weeks with no nutes on plants that arent ready sucks bro


I have two of them. I got the 420 Scope (60-100x) advertised in High Times, and I gotta say it's blurry as fuk. So yesterday I bought a 30x while I was at the Hydro shop ... buying FloraNectar I like the 30x a lot better!

I'm leaning toward the "sight of sex" as the day you start counting. That would explain why you are adding an extra week to the breeders date. I will guage the finish by the scope, and by eye. I know what _done_ bud looks like, I've just never grown these strains before, so it's a little more of a guess.



morrisgreenberg said:


> another tidbit on the flush period, i like to use sweetners like b'cares sweet or floranectar, some flush with it swearing it adds flavor, i have never noticed a sweeter taste, but i did notice better end product, my theory on this is sweets are used for added energy, these added carbs are helping a dying plant live while not adding nutrients, so your plant will still be able to matabolize any minerals stockpiled in her leaves whilst giving an energy boost to help her focus on resin/essential oil production...just my little theory


I'm starting to add FloraNectar to the res for the final few weeks. I am going to flush the last 4 days with FloraKleen & light FloraNectar. No light for the last 36 hrs.


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## cazador (Feb 20, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> tomato cages!, unlike a trellis or net, they allow you to move your pots around and you can do some sick training


yup.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 20, 2010)

I bought large binder clips, drilled a hole in them, ran green bamboo poles through the hole, and clipped it to the outside of the pots. Working great! I need more clips and poles though, I only have 12.


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## laserbrn (Feb 20, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> No need to get upset. I think they've got about 3 weeks to finish. I'm back on 12/12 for another week at least. I may cut the light back by 2 hours, but I am going to do more research between now and then. I've got a good amount of popcorn bud in the lower branches. I don't mind that it's there, but I want it to stop growing new bud and just freakin finish.


Haha, I'm not upset, I was laughing when I wrote that. I think this kind of stuff is funny. You definitely don't want them to "just finish". At this point they are growing weight more than you think. They are turning into lead weights on those sticks and that's what you want. They are hardening, swelling and giving you more and more ganja everyday FINALLY! All the hard work, all the money invested and finally you are producing ACTUAL produce everyday! Harvesting early means you waited until the plant got to the point of producing at a ridiculous rate like an 1/4 - 1/2 oz per day and you want to just cut it down....arrrrrghhh...don't do that. Everyday that it doesn't finish is a blessing. 

I like to come in and check my trichs and think "don't be done yet, you got more in ya c'mon" and it helps alot.

Patience is very, very difficult to have, but if you are looking for the gimmick's to improve yield and potency they are:

-Don't chop early
-Increase light as much as possible
-Dry and cure slowly and properly

There are a lot more, but these are ALWAYS fucked up on first grows. You want to think outside the box? Try NOT making the same mistakes noobs always make.


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## MatanuskaValley (Feb 20, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> tomato cages!, unlike a trellis or net, they allow you to move your pots around and you can do some sick training


this is a really good idea thanks.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 20, 2010)

morrisgreenberg said:


> tomato cages!, unlike a trellis or net, they allow you to move your pots around and you can do some sick training


Would've been a good idea 6 weeks ago


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## morrisgreenberg (Feb 20, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> I have two of them. I got the 420 Scope (60-100x) advertised in High Times, and I gotta say it's blurry as fuk. So yesterday I bought a 30x while I was at the Hydro shop ... buying FloraNectar I like the 30x a lot better!
> 
> I'm leaning toward the "sight of sex" as the day you start counting. That would explain why you are adding an extra week to the breeders date. I will guage the finish by the scope, and by eye. I know what _done_ bud looks like, I've just never grown these strains before, so it's a little more of a guess.
> 
> ...


 
all my cuts are showing sex full steam ahead by the time they are rooted, and i veg for a while even from seed sex is showing long before i kick into flower. believe me when they say 8 weeks, some will be honest and say "commercially ready" and in this game commercial means shit


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## NewGrowth (Feb 21, 2010)

Hell yah man buds look amazing!


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## smokingrubber (Feb 22, 2010)

I got home from work today and they were pretty droopy. This is the first time it's ever been that way. I fast-forwarded the water timer by about an hour, and they looked much better 30 minutes later.

A-Train and LA Woman are both falling over like crazy. I've got them all strung up  Still kinda upset by all of the wind maybe. It's wierd. A lot of the fan leaves seem wind-tattered. I looked at the triches and they're all early-cloudy.

I'm cleaning the res right now. Last week I cleaned it and loaded the ripe recipe, but I changed my mind while I was at work. I came home and bumped it up to the bloom recipe and added some floranectar. Now I'm going to clean it and set up the ripen recipe in the morning.

... I cleaned the res. Is it me or is it getting easier? I noticed a bunch of floaty scum in there. It's got to be the floranectar, thats the only thing I've changed. hmmm. Flip the switch to fill her up ... see ya in the morning.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 23, 2010)

About a week ago, when I said I noticed things starting to fall over, an innocent little scraggle branch and her sister lept out in front of something and ...well I chopped it er tehm. I hung the little fuckrs on a hanger in my dark closet, and checked on it a couple times. I check it tonight and its feeling ready.

I trimmed it up and smoked a bowl.







If I would have cut it down on purpose, I would have cut some better pieces. These are just fluff scribble taht wasn't getting what it needed. It worked though . Good expansion.. tastes immature, but i dont care right now. creepish brain load.

 night night


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## Bob Smith (Feb 24, 2010)

I'm with everyone else who says cutting down on your light during flowering is just silly - as Laser pointed out, without glucose produced via photosynthesis, there can be no production of new plant matter (buds). Without light, there can be no photosynthesis.

If anything, and this is actually something I've been meaning to give a try, I'd bump the lights up during the last couple of weeks - I've seen (forget where) some ridiculous numbers posted by people who switched to 16/8 the last couple of weeks and they said their plants really packed on the pounds.

Other then that little issue, grow's looking great.


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## Abnjm (Feb 24, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> About a week ago, when I said I noticed things starting to fall over, an innocent little scraggle branch and her sister lept out in front of something and ...well I chopped it er tehm. I hung the little fuckrs on a hanger in my dark closet, and checked on it a couple times. I check it tonight and its feeling ready.
> 
> I trimmed it up and smoked a bowl.
> 
> ...


It's amazing the misfortunes that can occur as you get closer to harvest.....

Your grow looks great Smokin! Looks like I got back in time for the good stuff.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 24, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> I'm with everyone else who says cutting down on your light during flowering is just silly - as Laser pointed out, without glucose produced via photosynthesis, there can be no production of new plant matter (buds). Without light, there can be no photosynthesis.
> 
> If anything, and this is actually something I've been meaning to give a try, I'd bump the lights up during the last couple of weeks - I've seen (forget where) some ridiculous numbers posted by people who switched to 16/8 the last couple of weeks and they said their plants really packed on the pounds.
> 
> Other then that little issue, grow's looking great.





Abnjm said:


> It's amazing the misfortunes that can occur as you get closer to harvest.....
> 
> Your grow looks great Smokin! Looks like I got back in time for the good stuff.


It's nice to see you both back! I'm going to leave the lights at 12/12. I will experiment on my friend's grow 

With everything falling over, it's crazy up in there. It doesn't look all uniform anymore, which sucks. But the buds are huge, so it's not all bad. I will snap some pics this evening.


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## Lovin'JK (Feb 25, 2010)

Im dying for an update.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 25, 2010)

Lovin'JK said:


> Im dying for an update.


I've been lazy. I keep planning to take pictures, but shit keeps coming up. Last night my friend brought over this chick I didn't know, so I didn't want to be going in and out of the garage. That smell can follow you around 

I'm about 10 days from choppy-choppy  She's ready for her porn-shoot though! Tonight for sure (no visitors allowed).


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## Bob Smith (Feb 25, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> I've been lazy. I keep planning to take pictures, but shit keeps coming up. Last night my friend brought over this chick I didn't know, so I didn't want to be going in and out of the garage. That smell can follow you around
> 
> I'm about 10 days from choppy-choppy  She's ready for her porn-shoot though! Tonight for sure (no visitors allowed).


You run a train last night, kiddo?


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## smokingrubber (Feb 25, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> You run a train last night, kiddo?


Not enough beer.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 25, 2010)

Some pics.
This is my Blue Fruity by Dinafem. AKA Donkey Dong






Here is Lemon Skunk. She had to be super-bent at about 3 weeks in flower, but she still did just fine.






A-Train front left, with Blue Fruity and Lemon Skunk on the right.






The two Blue Hash plants are pretty different. Small hard nugs ... a lot of them under there! Can't really get back there to smell it.






I'm thinking I got about 10 days till chop-chop.


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## smacc46 (Feb 26, 2010)

man...one can only hope right now for a grow like that...much props...i hope to start my next grow in a 4x4 in the next month or so....how many plants u got in there?


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## Barron (Feb 26, 2010)

Lookin good! How does that Blue Fruit smell? I just ordered som King's Kush and got a Dinafem Blue Widow freebie.


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## smokingrubber (Feb 26, 2010)

smacc46 said:


> man...one can only hope right now for a grow like that...much props...i hope to start my next grow in a 4x4 in the next month or so....how many plants u got in there?


I started 8 plants in the 4x4, but outgrew it. Now I have those 8 plants in a 4x9 tent.



Barron said:


> Lookin good! How does that Blue Fruit smell? I just ordered som King's Kush and got a Dinafem Blue Widow freebie.


Thanks. I have 8 King's Kush beans I'll pop in about 2 months, and my friend has 5 he's about to start. I can't wait to see how it comes out! It's a cross between Grape Ape and OG Kush ... and I freakn love both of those!

Dinafem has been hot and cold for me. I ordered 3 Blue Hash seeds from them and one turned out to be Blue Fruity instead (completely different plant). The other two Blue Hash are completely different colors. Unfortunately, they started great so I ordered 10 more before I found all the variations  Oh well, none are bad so F it. A year ago I got a Dinafem freebie and it turned out amazing.


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## Barron (Feb 26, 2010)

Yeah I'm excited for the Kings Kush. Ill send you a link to the journal for it when i Start it.


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## MatanuskaValley (Feb 26, 2010)

Grow is coming along great!


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## Hotsause (Feb 28, 2010)

They are getting big I've been following for a while cant wait to get the smoke report and see the Buds chopped,dried, and cured  + Rep


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## smokingrubber (Mar 1, 2010)

MatanuskaValley said:


> Grow is coming along great!


I'm learning a lot. There have been a few speedbumps, but I hope to put my new knowledge to use on the next grow. That's what we always say, huh?




Hotsause said:


> They are getting big I've been following for a while cant wait to get the smoke report and see the Buds chopped,dried, and cured  + Rep


I can't wait either! I chopped off a side branch of LA Woman last week and dried it. With no flush and no cure ... I've still got a sore throat! I'm pretty sure I'm coming down with something though, so I can't blame it all on the smoke. I didn't smoke anything this morning and my head is all stuffed up and my glands are ... I'm getting sick 

Tonight, I'm going to clean the res and load up the FloraKleen for a 4-day flush. Saturday, no lights and no water. Sunday, choppy-choppy-hang!

SOOOOOOON!


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## cazador (Mar 1, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> I'm learning a lot. There have been a few speedbumps, but I hope to put my new knowledge to use on the next grow. That's what we always say, huh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 woohooo!


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## Bob Smith (Mar 1, 2010)

cazador said:


> woohooo!


Agreed


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## smokingrubber (Mar 3, 2010)

Monday night I cleaned the res and refilled. This time, I pulled all of the stones and instruments and rinsed them too. I need to do that at least once a month.

Tuesday morning I dosed the barrel with FloraKleen and H2o2. I will run that for 4 full days (thru friday). 

Friday night after the lights go out, I will unplug the lights and the water timer. The plants will sit in the dark, with no water, until Sunday morning (36 hours of dark). Then when the lights would normally be coming on, I'll go in and CHOPPY-CHOPPY! 

I'll chop the fan leaves and hang the plants to dry *inside the tent*. I've heard that you're not supposed to dry them in the same room you grow in, but I never heard WHY, so fuck it. I've already got fans and the dehumidifier set up in there, so I see no reason not to use it. Of course, I will NOT be turning on the lights during drying.

I'm taking the power bill out of my name, and putting it under someone who qualifies for the CARE program (cheaper rates with no tiered pricing). That week that the lights will be off will be perfect because I can have the meter reader come out and he won't see the dial spinning like a nascar rim.

NEXT GROW UPDATE:
I received 11 OG Kush clones from my friend on monday night. They're pretty well rooted in rapid-rooters already. I put them in 4" rw. I've got a mix of seeds I started a few weeks ago. So I've got 19 babies going in my closet right now. They will stay there for another week and a half, until the room is ready.

I plan on vegging for 3 weeks (under 1000w MH). Closet time doesn't count imo. I will super-crop them once a week or whenever they need it. Last time, I vegged for 5 weeks but I only had 8 plants to work with. This time I'm going to run more plants with less vegging. I probably won't run all 19 plants, but we'll see how it looks when the time comes. I don't want to over-crowd them, but I don't want to waste space either.

I've taken a few pictures of the babies progress. I will create a new journal for them when they go in the tent. This journal will close after the bud-porn shoot and a good smoke report (after the cure).


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## Bob Smith (Mar 3, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Monday night I cleaned the res and refilled. This time, I pulled all of the stones and instruments and rinsed them too. I need to do that at least once a month.
> 
> Tuesday morning I dosed the barrel with FloraKleen and H2o2. I will run that for 4 full days (thru friday).
> 
> ...


There's no reason to not dry in the tent, other than not being able to clean the tent while they're drying.

I personally like being able to control the heat and humidity while I'm drying.


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## smokingrubber (Mar 4, 2010)

I've dried a couple side branches over the last week. 

*SEEDS!* 

Every bud, so far, has a seed or two!!! WTF? Is someone in my neighborhood growing dude plants? How can this be happening? 

I have not seen a single ball sack in my garden. HOW THE F?


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## cazador (Mar 4, 2010)

F-ing bananas!


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## Barron (Mar 4, 2010)

Aww man that sucks!!


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## shnkrmn (Mar 4, 2010)

Was every strain affected?


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## smokingrubber (Mar 4, 2010)

shnkrmn said:


> Was every strain affected?


Not that I know of. So far I've only found seed in the A-Train (3 plants) and the LA Woman (1 plant). (the 4 plants on the left side of my tent)

I haven't found any in Lemon Skunk (1 plant). Knock on wood.

I haven't chopped any Blue Hash (2 plants) or Blue Fruity (1 plant). So those are undecided.

It's still ...


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## Barron (Mar 4, 2010)

Look on the bright side you got a few free fem Seeds.


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## Hotsause (Mar 5, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Not that I know of. So far I've only found seed in the A-Train (3 plants) and the LA Woman (1 plant). (the 4 plants on the left side of my tent)
> 
> I haven't found any in Lemon Skunk (1 plant). Knock on wood.
> 
> ...


That sucks but U GOT SOME DANK BUD at least waiting to grow is driving me crazy i cant wait


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## Lovin'JK (Mar 6, 2010)

Pictures?


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## smokingrubber (Mar 6, 2010)

I didn't get any pics last night. Everything is yellowing because I've been flushing for 4 days. The lights went out last light for the final time. They'll sit in the dark tonight, and I will chop and hang tomorrow.

I'll get pics of them hanging tomorrow.

I'm guessing 2.5lbs dried. My friend (grower) thinks it's closer to 3lbs. I will soil myself if I get 3lbs!

I have a sinus cold right now so I haven't been able to smoke for about 5 days. I SURE hope it's gone by next weekend cuz it's gonna suck if I can't smoke while I'm trimming. I love scissor-hash.


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## milehigh970 (Mar 6, 2010)

MAN THAT SUCKS! So ypu gonna stuff 19 into the same tent? going from trees to lil guys huh.. na im just giving you shit man! Hey when you get some time roll by my journal I started and check it out. Still getting everything in its home but its coming together. Fingers crossed for the right side of the tent.....


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## smokingrubber (Mar 6, 2010)

milehigh970 said:


> MAN THAT SUCKS! So ypu gonna stuff 19 into the same tent? going from trees to lil guys huh.. na im just giving you shit man! Hey when you get some time roll by my journal I started and check it out. Still getting everything in its home but its coming together. Fingers crossed for the right side of the tent.....


I've got 19 started, but I don't expect to flower them all. It felt like 8 was a little under used. I don't want the plants to get as tall next time, so I'll veg less time but add more plants. I'm thinking 12-15 will be optimum if the plants are shorter.

I've got my fingers crossed too!

I'm reading good things about Coco Cior, so I'm seriously thinking about switching away from Hydroton.


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## BigSkyBudTHC (Mar 8, 2010)

quick question. was your a-train seed tiny? mine are very small and only one out of four has germinated. pushing 3 days now.


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## shnkrmn (Mar 8, 2010)

My A-train seeds are tiny. I had 100 percent germination in 24 hours though.


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## BigSkyBudTHC (Mar 10, 2010)

my a=train seed sucks. all the green house seeds germinated in 24 hours and the one a-train took about two days. its pushing 5 days now with no luck on the other 4. thinking i might put them in a shot glass with water and see if they sink. [email protected] th seeds


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## smokingrubber (Mar 11, 2010)

I germed 5 a couple weeks ago... none popped. I just put them straight into RW, so I'm blaming myself for failing to do what I know works. I had one left over so I put it in a cup of water. It popped like normal, and it's growing now.

I grew 3 a-train last time (drying now). I'm not super-impressed. But I'm not disappointed either. The buds are about the size of coke cans and pretty solid. They're shrinking up 50% at least. No smoke report yet cuz I have been sick and I can't smoke for about the last 10 days.

Overall, I'm disappointed in this whole crop. Yield will be around 2 lbs +, but a couple plants had some powdery mildew on them. That fugn sucks! Also, there appears to be a few seeds in there. More than I expected! Probably one or two seeds in each bud.

*Does the process of making bubble-hash remove powdery mildew?* I would prefer using the bud for butter or something vs selling mildewy bud. It's not BAD mildew, but I know it's there. It just pisses me off.


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## D4rKeN (Mar 11, 2010)

looks great i just placed an order on attitude 

th seeds- A Train feminized 5 pack
dutch passion-Shaman feminized 5 pack 
GHS-Kings Kush feminized 1 seed
GHS-Bubba Kush feminized 1 seed
GHS-Super Lemon Haze feminized 1 seed
Serious Seeds-White Russian feminized 1 seed
Barneys Farm-Red Dragon feminized 1 seed


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## Blue Moonshine1 (Mar 12, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Massive growth today it seems. Even the babies don't seem unhappy. They're not taking off yet, but they're getting comfortable and they'll be making moves in a few days.
> 
> Look how much everything has started to fill in though. Its a good thing they'll have the new tent to expand into in 4 or 5 days.



looks wonderful my friend!


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## smokingrubber (Mar 15, 2010)

This grow cycle is complete. I started trimming friday evening, and I finished Sunday morning. I had a bunch of help. There were a few problems along the way, and I'll discuss them and my future remedies later. The powdery mildew was not a serious problem, and an air hose fixed a great deal of what was visible.

The final dry yield:

*2.5 lbs!*

That includes 1/4 lb of scragglely bud I already got rid of  

I have a few pictures on my camera (out in the car). I still need to do a proper porn shoot, but right now I'm so fucking sick of looking at weed! This journal will effectively end after I do a final porn-shoot and smoke report. I am still kinda sick, so I can't handle the harsh smoke too easily. I will wait 2 or 3 weeks for the buds to properly cure before I attempt a serious Smoke Report. Overall, I'm pleased. I have 3 shelves of my vault LOADED with mason jars, and I have already gotten rid of about 10 zips.

Now I've got to focus on cleaning up the tent, and setting it up for the next cycle. 


I'm just pleased with yielding OVER TWO AND A HALF POUNDS


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## shnkrmn (Mar 15, 2010)

That's awesome! My A-trains are really taking off so I hope to hear a very positive report when you are well enough.

Are you making hash? I just did from the trim from my last grow and I'm mourning all the great trim I threw out in the past. Hash is easy and cheap to make and it'll give you a jaw-dropping bonus. The trim off of your grow could probabn get you an ounce of hashy hash hash.



smokingrubber said:


> This grow cycle is complete. I started trimming friday evening, and I finished Sunday morning. I had a bunch of help. There were a few problems along the way, and I'll discuss them and my future remedies later. The powdery mildew was not a serious problem, and an air hose fixed a great deal of what was visible.
> 
> The final dry yield:
> 
> ...


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## smokingrubber (Mar 15, 2010)

I AM going to make some hash (or butter) from a small portion of the trim. I set aside the trim from the Lemon Hash plant (I got over 6oz bud off a single LH). It's got a fantastic smell and there was zero mildew on it. The rest of the trim could be contaminated with a little powdery mildew, so why even fuck with it. 

Plus, I've got SO much good bud right now I feel like driving down the street and pelting my friends with nugs. (I will do my best to resist the urge!)


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## shnkrmn (Mar 15, 2010)

LOL. Lemme give you my address.


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## Bob Smith (Mar 15, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> This grow cycle is complete. I started trimming friday evening, and I finished Sunday morning. I had a bunch of help. There were a few problems along the way, and I'll discuss them and my future remedies later. The powdery mildew was not a serious problem, and an air hose fixed a great deal of what was visible.
> 
> The final dry yield:
> 
> ...


Good stuff kid


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## smokingrubber (Mar 15, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> Good stuff kid


Thanks!

I'm 42 though


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## smacc46 (Mar 15, 2010)

A truly complete journal....i am looking forward to the final report....learned alot...lookin forward to the next grow....


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## Bob Smith (Mar 17, 2010)

smokingrubber said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I'm 42 though


We're only as old as we feel


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## cazador (Mar 18, 2010)

Bob Smith said:


> We're only as old as we feel


 "feel" mentally or physically? because, I feel somewhere between 18 and 50.


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## Boyz N Da Hood (Mar 27, 2010)

Sweet grow yo cant wait to see how that blue hash turned out.. lookin foward to the smoke report


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## Lovin'JK (Mar 29, 2010)

Hows the cure coming?


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## smokingrubber (Apr 2, 2010)

Lovin'JK said:


> Hows the cure coming?


The cure is all done. Several jars are already empty  I owe you guys a porn shoot and a smoke review. Infact, I owe myself a smoke review because I've loaded my stash jar with Lemon Skunk and I haven't even smoked anything else. 

Right after the trim party, I broke everything down for the "big clean". It's all set back up and those OG clones (and a couple other kinds including one Lemon Skunk) are 2 weeks into veg (under 1000w MH). One more week till I flip those over to 12/12. I want to add some Co2 and a Sentinel within the next 2 weeks. Things are progressing very nicely.

I have been very busy setting up my friend's tents. We've managed to do a little each night, and it's almost done. A couple more evenings and we'll be ready to flip the switches. He's starting from all seed, and they're about 8 days old right now. We've still got another week before we will need to stick them into the tents.


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## IGroWhErwAterflo (Apr 14, 2010)

Very useful info! I like lol


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## smokingrubber (Apr 16, 2010)

Anyone following knows I've been working on setting up my friend's garage with 2 tents. Well, we are almost done. 

Infact, we are done. Except for one tiny little problem... his cunt ex-girlfriend called his landlord and told on him. The landlord kicked him out. He's looking for a new spot now, and when he finds one we're going to break everything down and rebuild it within a day or two. 

OMFG, I wanna choke the cunt!

His babies (from seeds) are about 3 weeks old right now, but they are not in the tents yet. They're in 4" RW under 500w T5. If we find a place within the next week, we should still be okay.

On the bright side, MY room is looking good! (Don't tell the cunt please) I just switched to 12/12 last weekend. The OG clones started out a little rough (heavy poison to kill mites when they were babies), but they have come on very strong lately. Looking very lush in there. I'm hoping to have the money together next week to install a Co2 system and run the tent closed-loop.


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## IGroWhErwAterflo (Apr 23, 2010)

Very nice set up ! Glad to kno alot of people is pls about the
system,I myself is on the ebb and gro system and I'm
loving it! Legal 215 grower,food grow where water flo''!lol


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## FunkyMonkeyPaw (Sep 26, 2010)

wow i just spent a couple hours reading 517 posts and no harvest pics or smoke report. how lame


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## shnkrmn (Sep 27, 2010)

Nice first post, mr negativity.



FunkyMonkeyPaw said:


> wow i just spent a couple hours reading 517 posts and no harvest pics or smoke report. how lame


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## bigmindhack (Oct 1, 2010)

I just finished reading the whole thing... Wow, fantastic job! Now I need to go and read through a second time, this time with notepad in hand! I guess on my first read through I was more interested in the banter between the OP, Bob Smith, and lazerbrn. Now that my own grow room is just about ready, this thread has definitely inspired me to keep my own journal. 

To smokingrubber: how have your subsequent grows been treating you? Did you finally get that c02 set up? Hit 3+lbs yet? Inquiring minds want to know! Thanks again for all of your enlightening hard work.


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## cgrizzle3 (Oct 13, 2010)

wow, this is awesome. Did your blue hash smell like bubblegum?


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## b3llb0y528 (Dec 19, 2011)

this is close to wat im doing


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## smokingrubber (Dec 21, 2011)

Cool, I've run several cycles since I started this journal. My whole system is pretty "seasoned" now. Mostly, it's worked out great. I've had to disassemble and reassemble the whole thing twice now (landlord wanted to visit), but I'm getting pretty good at it.

I'm currently at week 7 of my latest crop. I'm doing Blue Hash again, with some OG and an Alaskan Thunderfuck. The Blue Hash smells like lemon pinesol.


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## laserbrn (Dec 21, 2011)

Blast from the past y'all.....


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## smokingrubber (Dec 21, 2011)

laserbrn said:


> Blast from the past y'all.....


I've been around  Still growing!

My work went through a phase where they were watching internet activity, so I had to lay low. I missed you guys though


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