# Chemistry Discussion Thread



## MrEDuck (Feb 6, 2012)

Hey everyone!
I've been wanting to make a thread like this for awhile but I didn't have time or decent home internet access. Now that things are calming down from moving I have those things.
I want this thread to cover any topic in chemistry that people want to learn about, from drug synthesis to why the structure of the HOMO requires a backside addition in an Sn2 reaction, or even quantum mechanics. I'm on a train using my phone right now so I can't post pics and start talking synths. Give me 24 hours and we'll get started with the synth of PEAs and amphetamines via a Knoevengal condensation. 
Anything in open literature is fair game. If anyone has any chem questions please feel free to ask even if it's not related to the current topic. Also suggestions for discussion topics are most welcome.


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 6, 2012)

Love the subject matter!

_Please...
_
Read my PM, ASAP!


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## Martins (Feb 7, 2012)

Finally someone here is doing the right thing.


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## canndo (Feb 7, 2012)

Let us talk about rechrystalizing MDMA then, how would one go about such a thing?


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## MrEDuck (Feb 7, 2012)

Ndanger I read your pm and I do agree about that issue. I'll pm you with more details.
lim glad there's a positive response. I have the first post almost finished. I ran into a few delays. I changed the topic to safety first. Canndo I will do recrystallization next.


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## morfin56 (Feb 7, 2012)

Looked into quualude synths recently and they are very simple.
I love this topic, will be watching.


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 7, 2012)

Safety is paramount. Glad you took the proper initiative! 

Even the smallest of _acids _and _solvents _in a test tube of all things, can cause a small abruption. Especially, when working with calibrated pipettes!

Looking forward to your _Chemical Discourse! _&#8203;


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 7, 2012)

morfin56 said:


> Looked into quualude synths recently and they are very simple.
> I love this topic, will be watching.


On paper.

Everything looks simple. The thing about _chemistry _is that its not always predictable. Everyone expects that the reactions will play out like the recipe they read. However, what if something went wrong. Would you be able to counteract the problem with a fast solution. Say for instance in the case of the notorious Hydrochloric Gas. If large amounts of this would evade your work space would you know how to remedy the situation?

BTW, I'm glad to see you back on the RIU pavement Morfin. How you been!


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## morfin56 (Feb 7, 2012)

ndangerspecimen101 said:


> On paper.
> 
> Everything looks simple. The thing about _chemistry _is that its not always predictable. Everyone expects that the reactions will play out like the recipe they read. However, what if something went wrong. Would you be able to counteract the problem with a fast solution. Say for instance in the case of the notorious Hydrochloric Gas. If large amounts of this would evade your work space would you know how to remedy the situation?
> 
> BTW, I'm glad to see you back on the RIU pavement Morfin. How you been!


There wouldn't be a need for a remedy for something like that in my case as all reactions would take place in an exhaust chamber.
Haha I've been good, lurking here and there, always learning something new.


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 7, 2012)

canndo said:


> Let us talk about rechrystalizing MDMA then, how would one go about such a thing?


Recrystallization is all about picking the proper _stripping agent.

_Essentially, you want something that is soluble in MDMA when hot.

MrEDuck will explain further!


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 7, 2012)

morfin56 said:


> There wouldn't be a need for a remedy for something like that in my case as all reactions would take place in an exhaust chamber.
> Haha I've been good, lurking here and there, always learning something new.


Ah. Someones being doing there homework. Did you graduate from the class of _Higher _learning? 

Well. What if for some reason your Exhaust Chamber (properly known as a Fume Hood) malfunction which is usually the case with clandestine setups. What would you do? You can't simply rely on a fume hood for the first line of defense! 

Unless your baking cookies...


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## morfin56 (Feb 7, 2012)

Not just a fume hood.
An area about 3 X 3 X 5 feet completely, with a front plexi glass window and arm gloves and shit you know what they use for messing with radioactive elements.
Completely secluded from the rest of the room and exhausted outside, even if the exhaust failed it wouldn't matter until next time I need to put in/take out something from it.
The access area to it is outside to, i would just have to open it and run back inside. 
Could bake cookies to though.


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 7, 2012)

Whoa. You exceeded my expectations good buddy! 

But, a Fume Hood is much more accessible when working with chemicals. The thing you're explaining would work wonders for inoculating mushrooms.

You want the front end to be free of any glass.


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## Tmac4302 (Feb 7, 2012)

First, love the thread. I'm a soon-to-be organic chemist myself so of course drug extraction/synthesis comes naturally to my curiosity. 

I have most of my physical research from extraction of essential oils and alkaloids through A/B and STB reactions. I've successfully extracted N,N- dimethytriptamine, 5-MeO dimethyltryptamine, 3,4,5- trimethoxyphenethylamine (cacti alkaloid extraction), Lysergic Acid Amide, 4-HO dimethyltryptamine, ect. I've also been extracting essential oils like frankincense, lavender, orange, ect. I have also been growing cannabis for about a year now and psilocybe cubensis for going on 4 months now. 

I love chemistry so much and will, to the best of my ability, share my knowledge with you guys!


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 7, 2012)

Right on.

You'll feel right at home.

I'll pull up a chair. As I want to be the person in first row! 

I'm particularly interested in your cacti alkaloidal isolations. As, extracting mescaline or its _full spectrum _alkaloidal identity definitely takes some chemistry background compared to other basic extractions like DMT and psilocin. Anyone can come up with a gunky end product that produces less than satisfactory effects. But accumulating crystals of white luminescence, one must think, that it took some thought to gassing or titrating mescaline to get rid of any impurities within the lattice.


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 7, 2012)

Where the hell is MrEDuck. I thought he was lecturing today!


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## MrEDuck (Feb 7, 2012)

Sorry for running late. My wife decided that she had different plans for me tonight. So here is stuff about safety and recrystallization and using a combo of A/B and then recrystallizing MDMA to get it as pure as possible.

Safety First
That goes for everything, but especially chemistry.
I made this thread for educational and entertainment purposes. Actually performing any of the syntheses is illegal pretty much everywhere in the world. And many of the precursors are really nasty. Some like to explode violently for no good reason (well having adjacent nitrogen atoms is a good reason for making the boom). Others can have terrible effects on your health, both long and short term. Making a proper lab is a lot of work and costs a lot of money. And you need a number of things that will raise eyebrows when you purchase them if you don't have a good cover story. So please don't try this at home. 
On the topic of safety let's talk personal protection equipment (PPE from here on). The most important piece of PPE is eye protection, and there are several types ranging from disposable single use safety glasses to full face blast masks used by people who do research with explosive compounds. I've never needed more than my regular polycarbonate glasses. They're a good reusable pair. I like being able to see. I know a guy who got hit in the eye with acetone. He's lucky he can see with it, he said its the most painful thing he's ever experienced. If you're in a lab keep your glasses on at all times. 
Next is the lab coat. Chemicals can burn you, or stain your clothes, or destroy your clothes, etc. a lab coat protects you and your clothes. Next up we have gloves. Good thick gloves that the chemicals can't eat through. Generally 8mil nitrile gloves are very good for organic chemistry. I like the ones that cover the wrist with a long cuff. Always check before working with something new that it won't eat your gloves. The next thing is minimizing exposed skin. No open shoes, shorts stuff like that. I don't remember which it was but either Dow or DuPont came up with the slogan "Take 2 for safety." Meaning take two minutes before you start something to make sure it's safe. Apparently they had a major drop in accidents and injuries. There's always 2 minutes for safety. 


Recrystallization


Recrystallization is a way of purifying a substance by taking advantage of it's solubility. Solids generally get more soluble in a given solvent as it heats up. The general procedure is to find a solvent that your product is sparingly soluble in when it is cold, but fully soluble in when it's hot.
Place the sample of the product in need of purification in the cold recrystallization solvent. Heat until the product has dissolved. If there is any undissolved impurities when the recrystallization solvent is boiling quickly filter it out to remove the impurity, then slowly cool the solution (the slower the better) until the product has completely fallen out of solution. Collect the crystals by filtration, and wash with a small amount of your recrystallization solvent. Then dry them. These should be very pure now. The idea is that the soluble impurities stay in solution because there isn't enough of them to saturate the solution and the insoluble impurities have been removed by filtration when the product is fully in solution.
The trick is to find a solvent that dissolves the product only at elevated temperatures. A good way to find a suitable recrystallization solvent is to google product recrystallization and see what has worked for others. And start from there. For example heptane is a good solvent for recrystallizing DMT freebase. So say you do an STB extraction on some MHRB. No matter how good your extraction technique is you'll have some impurities like waxes or fats which are fully soluble in heptane, and a small amount of other alkaloids. The waxes stay in the heptane because they're very soluble in it no matter what temp it is and and the non DMT alkaloids are present in such small quantities that they'll still stay in solution even if they aren't very soluble in the recrystallization solvent. 
Anhydrous isopropyl alcohol is the best recrystallization solvent for MDMA in my experience. You can make it from 91% IPA by baking some Epsom salts at 250°F/120°C for an hour. The dried Epsom salts should be immediately placed in a decicator after being removed from the oven to prevent it from absorbing moisture from the air. For every 200mL of 91% IPA use ~25-30g of freshly dried Epsom salts. The IPA will start absorbing moisture from the air very quickly so do these steps as fast as possible. If you really want to make sure you've cleaned your MDMA as much as possible you can start with an A/B extraction. MDMA has a pKa of somewhere between 9.9 and 10.4. Here's how I would do it.
Dissolve the MDMA powder in water with a pH of 7.5 or less. Filter any insolubles (right now all the MDMA is MDMA HCl which is fully soluble in water, so any insolubles are impurities). Now begin slowly raising the pH to 12.5, you will see a white oily precipitate begin to form. This is freebase MDMA. Collect it by washing the aqueous layer with a nonpolar solvent of your choice, then separate them and wash the aqueous layer 3x with a small amount of nonpolar solvent and pool the nonpolar layers. Evaporate about half of the nonpolar solvent and use an acid to crystallize (dry HCl if you know how to use it, HCl in IPA will work but there is some water you need to get rid of to get the MDMA HCl at the end). Now you may recrystallize the MDMA HCl to make it even cleaner. Start by baking the Epsom salts to dry them out, after the salts have been baking for an hour or more take them out of the oven and put them in a desicator to cool. After about 20-30mins the Epsom salts should be cool enough that they can be added to the IPA to dry it out without boiling it or having some other problem. Seal the container holding the MgSO4 and IPA to keep it from absorbing water from the air. Now use this to recrystallize your MDMA that you just A/B'd to get very clean Molly.


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## MrEDuck (Feb 7, 2012)

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Morfin what you are talking about is called a glovebox. Are you sure all the walls are resistant to chemicals (organics, acids, and bases)?
Tmac, nice to see an aspiring organic chemist. I'm a med chemist by training but I've worked in other specialties more at this point. How far along are you in your studies?

And now to try to catch up with the questions asked this evening. You guys are fast!
The synthesis of methaqualone is pretty straight forward. The reason it's not being made clandestinely is the profit margins wouldn't be very good. You need a minimum of about 300mg of methaqualone to get fucked up, and it's tough to make at a very large scale. So if someone is going to the trouble of making it it's going to be for personals, not sale.
I had to reschedule home internet setup to tomorrow. Once that's done I will write out the Knoevengal condensation post. It's a great reaction for making PEAs and amphetamine derivatives out of benzaldehydes with nitromethane/nitroethane and reducing the nitrostyrene to the appropriate PEA.
keep the questions coming. [/FONT]


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 7, 2012)

Fun at RIU tonight. You're stimulating my mind good buddy! 

Time to cook me up a good protein filled steak and devour your chemical words.


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## Tmac4302 (Feb 8, 2012)

MrEDuck said:


> Morfin what you are talking about is called a glovebox. Are you sure all the walls are resistant to chemicals (organics, acids, and bases)?
> Tmac, nice to see an aspiring organic chemist. I'm a med chemist by training but I've worked in other specialties more at this point. How far along are you in your studies?
> 
> And now to try to catch up with the questions asked this evening. You guys are fast!
> ...


I'm about 3 years into my BS in Chemistry at my university. I've been interning at local lab's here in the midwest for the past 2 years though. I have about another year for my BS and another 2 or 3 years for my graduate research.


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 8, 2012)

Any dissertation or _concrete "abstract" _in mind Tmac? 

I'm a rogue scientist. No chemistry background besides Advance Placement Chemistry in High school, and some medical background as a license vocational nurse. 

I love chemicals. Medicine. They truly make the world go round!


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## Tmac4302 (Feb 8, 2012)

ndangerspecimen101 said:


> Any dissertation or _concrete "abstract" _in mind Tmac?
> 
> I'm a rogue scientist. No chemistry background besides Advance Placement Chemistry in High school, and some medical background as a license vocational nurse.
> 
> I love chemicals. Medicine. They truly make the world go round!


Nothing definite right now. However, I would love to get into cannabinoid research to study the correlation between phytocannabinoid's and endocannabinoid's, and use that as a "theme" per say for my thesis in the dissertation. Cannabinoids are just one of the many compounds on this earth that fascinate me. Most people get on their computer to Facebook, check e-mails, shop, ect. for their daily web surfing. Mine is a love child of political angst, alternative energy, modern and post-modern philosophical readings, and a multitude of different types of chemistry lectures (journals, new procedures, new findings, certain compounds and their biochemical effect on the human body, university videos in lecture halls, ect). Knowledge is the only true way to find truth, imo. So here I am searching and absorbing as much as I can on a daily basis.


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 8, 2012)

Yes. 

Ndangerspecimen thinks he found some new friends at RIU, today! Were heavily involved in the "Information Age." Everything is at our fingertips practically. Were always looking for methods to save time. The internet is one of time. A peer to peer system of information exchange. 

But, lets get this topic back on track.

Why does various batches of Molly vary in color?

There transparent shards, beige, and sandy consistencies. Even reports of green and pink products. SWIM is particularly interested as to why the Sand (Molly) has its distinct color.


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## sonar (Feb 8, 2012)

subbed. Don't want to miss this one!


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## Martins (Feb 8, 2012)

I have question -> Have anyone here tryed ethamphetamine?
Its easy to obtain from ethcathinone via reduction with LAH.


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## Totoe (Feb 8, 2012)

subbed, I think I need to buddy up to a colleague over in the chemistry department to let me start auditing classes, so I can understand all of this. lol


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## MrEDuck (Feb 8, 2012)

Ndanger MDMA varies in color because of impurities, like any other substance. It doesn't take much to change the color of most drugs. Also brown can be better than tan, but moon rocks will always be better than the others. But not by much nessascarily. You can have 97% pure Molly that's brown. The color usually means the chemist either wasn't very skilled or was too lazy to do a decent wash and/or recrystallization.
I've never seen sand so I can't say anything about it. All my experience with Molly is with moonrocks. Pink or green is most likely from a metal impurity.
On the topic of MDMA I saw some data recently that shows that some of the mercury used in an Al/Hg amalgam stays in the product. I suggest we all get tested for mercury exposure sooner than later.


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## canndo (Feb 8, 2012)

ndangerspecimen101 said:


> On paper.
> 
> Everything looks simple. The thing about _chemistry _is that its not always predictable. Everyone expects that the reactions will play out like the recipe they read. However, what if something went wrong. Would you be able to counteract the problem with a fast solution. Say for instance in the case of the notorious Hydrochloric Gas. If large amounts of this would evade your work space would you know how to remedy the situation?
> 
> BTW, I'm glad to see you back on the RIU pavement Morfin. How you been!



there are several levels of danger in many non-professional endeavors - of course there is the preservation of one's skin, eyesight, fingers, hands, limbs, hair and the like. Another is far more incidious. Many reagents are carcinogenic - some monsterously so. Some of these chemicals can be absorbed in a variety of ways from touch to inhalation, some, are simply not washed out by the experimenter who is anxious not to lose his yield. In that case he is eating and offering to his friends something that could be damaging 10 or 20 years down the road. It might not seem so at the moment, but even the creation of some marvelous and novel high is not worth losing a liver or kidney over the experience.


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## MrEDuck (Feb 8, 2012)

Martins I've never touched ethamphetamine because I have a strong dislike of all stims but caffeine and nicotine. But I can tell you that using LiAlH4 is way overboard. You could use red P/I or an amalgam or a bunch of other reducing agents. LiAlH4 would be shooting a squirrel with an elephant gun. Save it for elephants (nitrostyrenes).


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## canndo (Feb 8, 2012)

Mr Duck.


Thank you for the rather concise explaination. Now, we all know pretty much what each other is talking about, we are speculating on how one might take clandistinely manufactured mdma which was likely mixed with (for example) bzp, amphetamine, valium, or some of the other more common adulterants. Now, given that one is doing these sorts of processes, what will be the effect? for instance, if BZP is soluable in the cold solvent you are using, it will remain soluable in the warm solvent as well, will it not? We would need to know some of the properties not only of the main chemical but of many of the adulterants in order to have a process that is most specific for the one substance and least specific for the others. Might we say that your description has already been adjusted for this? 

I must say I am rather thrilled to be able to read what you post here (the other folks as well, obviously).


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## Bucket head (Feb 8, 2012)

Sub'd


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## MrEDuck (Feb 8, 2012)

Canndo,If something is soluble in the cold recrystallization solvent it will also be soluble in it when it is hot. This mea s the recrystallization will get rid of that impuritiy. Generally impurities will be present in small enough amounts that as long as they are partially soluble in the chosen solvent they will stay in solution when the product crystallizes.


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## canndo (Feb 8, 2012)

Gotcha. So Isopropal is specific enough to MDMA to clear the final product of most of all of the other additives. Now, is it specific to MDMA rather than MDA or would this hypothetical fail to separate these two substances?


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## MrEDuck (Feb 8, 2012)

It works because active cuts are usually only a few percent of the total, so there isn't enough material to fall out of solution. If it was like a 50/50 mixture it wouldn't work. You'd have to resort to chromatography then.


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## canndo (Feb 8, 2012)

MrEDuck said:


> It works because active cuts are usually only a few percent of the total, so there isn't enough material to fall out of solution. If it was like a 50/50 mixture it wouldn't work. You'd have to resort to chromatography then.




Great! and the MDMA/MDA issue?
(scuse me for attempting to dominate the discussion here.. but.... I figure we all might want to know?)


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## dudeomg1 (Feb 8, 2012)

alright ill ask what everyone without a chemist backround is thinking but let me start here i have been very interested in becoming an organic chemist for multiple reasons (I love science,math, and money, i heard that chemistry is gonna be a field with really high growth in jobs thats another reason) anyway i was just wondering if you could explain how to make LSD(i know its complicated) and MDMA i don&#8217;t really care for mdma but i would like the education thanks in advance


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## mrboots (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm subbed to this very interesting thread, I've always been very interested in how anything is made and I've made some cool stuff, some cool pieces of furniture and cabinetry, some cool things cast out of concrete. I've brewed beer and grown weed, but the only thing I've ever done that was even close to chemistry was cure olives with lye. They turned out delicious. So I'm ready to get some good basic chemistry knowledge here.


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## morfin56 (Feb 8, 2012)

MrEDuck said:


> Morfin what you are talking about is called a glovebox. Are you sure all the walls are resistant to chemicals (organics, acids, and bases)?


haha Definitely, wood walls plated with steel on the inside walls.
The only thing that is a problem is the front window, plexiglass.
Even acetone eats through it, but it takes a little while because its so thick and I have backups anyway.
The window is small and only for looking at what your doing inside.

This thread is like christmas, 2c-x synthesis please?!


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## MrEDuck (Feb 8, 2012)

No worries Canndo, I like answering questions. To separate MDMA and MDA you'd need to use chromatography. 

Dudeomg1, I am planning on doing a review of LSD chem soon. I've been working on it for a bit now but it's a big topic. I'll be doing MDMA soon as well. Probably when I can't think of another topic.


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## dudeomg1 (Feb 8, 2012)

nice i have never found anywhere on the web that actually explains how to make lsd even assuming you have a proper chemistry set which i do have access to ,as well as an array of chemicals, myself i just couldn&#8217;t tell my teacher what i was making he thinks im pretty responsible though so he pretty much lets me do what i want


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## Tmac4302 (Feb 8, 2012)

Yeah, LSD synthesis is a pretty hefty procedure. Good LSD synthesis takes good instruments and the proper technique (with experience with said technique) for the end product to come out right without any harmful biproducts in your end product. I've seen several procedures for LSD synth and it's not exactly something you can throw down on paper in an hour and call it good. The compounds needed from a straight synthesis POV are not easily obtainable and some can throw up red flags depending on the source. Some think it's alot more simple to just extract an ergot derivative from the Ergot fungi and begin synthesis from there. However, that would require the fungi itself to be colonized in the laboratory itself to be used for extractions. So, Mr. Duck, my question for you sir is what would be the pro's and con's to both synthesis'? What would be preferred? If one was to obtain an already colonized Ergot fungi colony, wouldn't that be a preferred way to begin synthesis after you obtain the ergotamine tartrate from the fungi?


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 8, 2012)

MrEDuck said:


> Ndanger MDMA varies in color because of impurities, like any other substance. It doesn't take much to change the color of most drugs. Also brown can be better than tan, but moon rocks will always be better than the others. But not by much nessascarily. You can have 97% pure Molly that's brown. The color usually means the chemist either wasn't very skilled or was too lazy to do a decent wash and/or recrystallization.
> I've never seen sand so I can't say anything about it. All my experience with Molly is with moonrocks. Pink or green is most likely from a metal impurity.
> On the topic of MDMA I saw some data recently that shows that some of the mercury used in an Al/Hg amalgam stays in the product. I suggest we all get tested for mercury exposure sooner than later.


I thought so!

Thanks for the thorough explanation. The Sand is indeed a rare variety. The Sand I possessed a little over a year ago was GCMS tested by one of my college buddies and it was over 90% pure. They're were only traces of unreacted MDP2P and H20 trapped inside the molecular lattice. The potency of the Sand is pure FIRE. I wouldn't account the color of the Sand due to the skill level of the chemist; however more so, of a shortcut. Yes, I heard small traces of mercury could be left in the end product but the amounts would be so minuscule to be detected... although, overtime it could present a problem.


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 8, 2012)

canndo said:


> there are several levels of danger in many non-professional endeavors - of course there is the preservation of one's skin, eyesight, fingers, hands, limbs, hair and the like. Another is far more incidious. Many reagents are carcinogenic - some monsterously so. Some of these chemicals can be absorbed in a variety of ways from touch to inhalation, some, are simply not washed out by the experimenter who is anxious not to lose his yield. In that case he is eating and offering to his friends something that could be damaging 10 or 20 years down the road. It might not seem so at the moment, but even the creation of some marvelous and novel high is not worth losing a liver or kidney over the experience.


No arguments. I agree in every sense of the word!

That's why when talking about extractions and chemical synthesis safety has to be addressed first. Every Chemistry book you open when it deals with laboratory settings it addresses safety first. I made that very clear to MrEDuck. The safety of course is first bestowed on the chemist to preserve his/her livelihood. As you pointed out, if the chemical synthesis is not formulated properly or a certain solvent or acid is not recrystallized properly you can ingest impurities that might hurt you down the road. 

One good example of this is in the case of PMA (Para-Methoxyamphetamine) which essentially uses the same oils as MDMA as starting materials. However, instead of the chemist extracting sassafras they extract incredible amounts of anethole from anise and fennel, due to safrole being a more limited starting material to get ahold of. The end result is deadly as PMA reverses the role of MAO-B inhibitors which incredibly increases body temperature and is blamed for the cause of serotonin syndrome.


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## MrEDuck (Feb 8, 2012)

Dudeomg1 you obviously aren't looking very hard. Woodward's synthesis: http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lysergic.acid.woodward.html
Another more recent synthesis. Truly beautiful chemistry: http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lysergic.hendrickson.html
Also you don't have access to what you need to crank out LSD. I know you don't because if you had access to a lab you could make LSD in you would know how to look it up in a journal. It's in fucking TiHKAL. There should be no problem finding these.
To anyone who is here to learn recipes for synths in hopes of making your own drugs and having an unending supply of rare psychs or becoming rich don't try this at home. The first LSD synth I posted uses hydrazine. A compound that is over 90% nitrogen by weight, and has a nitrogen nitrogen single bond. Translation it's a ticking time bomb that you didn't set. I won't go so far as saying I won't use it, I have, but trust and believe I look real hard for an alternative. And that's the thing about these syntheses, many use some nasty chemicals. And they don't warn you, because they're written for readers who either know what they are or know to look them up. If you want to learn to make drugs there are hundreds of chemistry programs. Learn to do labwork. This isn't baking. No one dies in a baking accident. Except in Into the Woods only he didn't. People do die in lab accidents, or when a synth gets fucked up and you make a poison. It even happens to chemists some times. Ever hear of MPTP? A journal article will say 5g of AlCl3 was added to 100mL solvent. You think you should dump it in all at once? Why doesn't it say slowly add, because you don't make it out of first year organic without knowing that. And there's a good chance you'll store it into your brain forever because you remember fleeing the giant cloud of HCl gas that got generated when some idiot thought they could just dump it in.


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 8, 2012)

dudeomg1 said:


> nice i have never found anywhere on the web that actually explains how to make lsd even assuming you have a proper chemistry set which i do have access to ,as well as an array of chemicals, myself i just couldn&#8217;t tell my teacher what i was making he thinks im pretty responsible though so he pretty much lets me do what i want


Not to burst your bubble but ergotamine and other ergot related compounds are strictly watch. Sure the glassware might be the easiest part. But, finding a good _claviceps specimen _is the hardest thing to obtain. If your instructor had a brain in his skull he'll know you weren't conducting any old little chemistry experiment. Great LSD takes precision and analytical equipment such as HPLC and GCMS readily available.


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## Tmac4302 (Feb 9, 2012)

MrEDuck said:


> Dudeomg1 you obviously aren't looking very hard. Woodward's synthesis: http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lysergic.acid.woodward.html
> Another more recent synthesis. Truly beautiful chemistry: http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lysergic.hendrickson.html
> Also you don't have access to what you need to crank out LSD. I know you don't because if you had access to a lab you could make LSD in you would know how to look it up in a journal. It's in fucking TiHKAL. There should be no problem finding these.
> To anyone who is here to learn recipes for synths in hopes of making your own drugs and having an unending supply of rare psychs or becoming rich don't try this at home. The first LSD synth I posted uses hydrazine. A compound that is over 90% nitrogen by weight, and has a nitrogen nitrogen single bond. Translation it's a ticking time bomb that you didn't set. I won't go so far as saying I won't use it, I have, but trust and believe I look real hard for an alternative. And that's the thing about these syntheses, many use some nasty chemicals. And they don't warn you, because they're written for readers who either know what they are or know to look them up. If you want to learn to make drugs there are hundreds of chemistry programs. Learn to do labwork. This isn't baking. No one dies in a baking accident. Except in Into the Woods only he didn't. People do die in lab accidents, or when a synth gets fucked up and you make a poison. It even happens to chemists some times. Ever hear of MPTP? A journal article will say 5g of AlCl3 was added to 100mL solvent. You think you should dump it in all at once? Why doesn't it say slowly add, because you don't make it out of first year organic without knowing that. And there's a good chance you'll store it into your brain forever because you remember fleeing the giant cloud of HCl gas that got generated when some idiot thought they could just dump it in.


I couldn't agree more. I have well over $5,000 invested into lab safety ware, lab equipment, emergency wash stations, and an off site private area that is only used for "labs" and I have barely scraped the surface for what it really /needs/. I had a friend in lab that mixed 1500 ml of distilled H2O INTO a beaker of 100mg NaOH. Let's just say it ended in a very bad volcano-like eruption that damaged alot of stuff and caused a few bad chemical burns. Everything I post and every question I ask is for mine and everyone else's educational purposes ONLY. I'm an information sponge. I love knowledge!


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## MrEDuck (Feb 9, 2012)

Tmac4302 said:


> I couldn't agree more. I have well over $5,000 invested into lab safety ware, lab equipment, emergency wash stations, and an off site private area that is only used for "labs" and I have barely scraped the surface for what it really /needs/. I had a friend in lab that mixed 1500 ml of distilled H2O INTO a beaker of 100mg NaOH. Let's just say it ended in a very bad volcano-like eruption that damaged alot of stuff and caused a few bad chemical burns. Everything I post and every question I ask is for mine and everyone else's educational purposes ONLY. I'm an information sponge. I love knowledge!


Are you sure it wasn't 100g of NaOH? 100mg wouldn't have release enough heat to boil 2mL of cold water. 100g would be just like you described with minor difference, you didn't mention the other people in the lab beating him to death. Or even severely. Remember to change your eyewash stations water frequently, with double distilled water if possible.


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## canndo (Feb 9, 2012)

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3420851/A-Laboratory-Guide-to-the-Identification-of-Claviceps-purpurea-and

As good a place as any for starting your own ergot farm.


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## canndo (Feb 9, 2012)

ndangerspecimen101 said:


> No arguments. I agree in every sense of the word!
> 
> That's why when talking about extractions and chemical synthesis safety has to be addressed first. Every Chemistry book you open when it deals with laboratory settings it addresses safety first. I made that very clear to MrEDuck. The safety of course is first bestowed on the chemist to preserve his/her livelihood. As you pointed out, if the chemical synthesis is not formulated properly or a certain solvent or acid is not recrystallized properly you can ingest impurities that might hurt you down the road.
> 
> One good example of this is in the case of PMA (Para-Methoxyamphetamine) which essentially uses the same oils as MDMA as starting materials. However, instead of the chemist extracting sassafras they extract incredible amounts of anethole from anise and fennel, due to safrole being a more limited starting material to get ahold of. The end result is deadly as PMA reverses the role of MAO-B inhibitors which incredibly increases body temperature and is blamed for the cause of serotonin syndrome.



I just wanted to point out that the immediate dangers were not all that existed, everyone fears blowing themselves up or blinding themselves, it takes some wisdom to fear other things - such as o-toluidine for example and bladder cancer.


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## canndo (Feb 9, 2012)

MrD. Merits and pitfalls of Brightstar's sythnthisis? how about Dr. Drool's? Is there a one pot synth or was that just a drug addled dream? oh so many many questions.


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## VLRD.Kush (Feb 9, 2012)

I suck at math, I suck at chemistry, but god damn is this interesting stuff.


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## Tmac4302 (Feb 9, 2012)

MrEDuck said:


> Are you sure it wasn't 100g of NaOH? 100mg wouldn't have release enough heat to boil 2mL of cold water. 100g would be just like you described with minor difference, you didn't mention the other people in the lab beating him to death. Or even severely. Remember to change your eyewash stations water frequently, with double distilled water if possible.


Looks like my fingers got carried away. A little medicated atm. Lolz I meant 100g. We weren't too happy with him. Needless to say, for our sanity, he was removed from the premise very quickly. I have that and the shower station feeding off of the same recirculation reservoir so I don't need to change it out frequently, per say, but I do change the water out before each time I work in the lab (with either double or triple distilled H2O. What ever I am able to procure atm.) Minus very simple essential oil distillations. I trust my goggles enough for procedures of the same sort.


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## MrEDuck (Feb 9, 2012)

Sorry for being MIA for most of today. My immune system decided to launch a new attack in it's ongoing rebellion. Spent most of the day having a fever of 39.5-40.0°C. That's after taking antipyretics. It's lower now, or at least the ceiling stopped sparkling. 
Ndanger I am planning on doing a big post on LSD synth soon and I will go over the ET+base->LSA + N(ET)2 and a few total synths. Including both I linked to earlier. Woodwards will be gone over solely because he is RB Woodward and his work won him a Nobel and he should have shared Wilkonsons and he definetly would have shared the prize with Hoffman and Fukai for the Woodward-Hoffman rules. People who won or deserved to win two are rare indeed. Three is unheard of. The man deduced the structure of B-12 without the aid of spectroscopy (50s era IR and NMR don't count for a molecule like that). I'll end my hero worship here. 
Canndo, that bit of knowledge about o-toluidine is pretty specific and I can only think of one drug made from it. You holding out with a lost ancient treasure?
there's no good one pot MDMA synth I'm aware of, but I'll look. I'm looking at Bright Star and Dr Drool's synths to refresh my memory now. Expect a post in an hour or so. Unless my fever comes back. Then expect some weird shit.


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 9, 2012)

VLRD.Kush said:


> I suck at math, I suck at chemistry, but god damn is this interesting stuff.


Chemistry is playing God. Who doesn't like to be in the shoes of God for just one brief second. 

Oh, this seminar has just begun.


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## canndo (Feb 9, 2012)

MrEDuck said:


> Sorry for being MIA for most of today. My immune system decided to launch a new attack in it's ongoing rebellion. Spent most of the day having a fever of 39.5-40.0°C. That's after taking antipyretics. It's lower now, or at least the ceiling stopped sparkling.
> Ndanger I am planning on doing a big post on LSD synth soon and I will go over the ET+base->LSA + N(ET)2 and a few total synths. Including both I linked to earlier. Woodwards will be gone over solely because he is RB Woodward and his work won him a Nobel and he should have shared Wilkonsons and he definetly would have shared the prize with Hoffman and Fukai for the Woodward-Hoffman rules. People who won or deserved to win two are rare indeed. Three is unheard of. The man deduced the structure of B-12 without the aid of spectroscopy (50s era IR and NMR don't count for a molecule like that). I'll end my hero worship here.
> Canndo, that bit of knowledge about o-toluidine is pretty specific and I can only think of one drug made from it. You holding out with a lost ancient treasure?
> there's no good one pot MDMA synth I'm aware of, but I'll look. I'm looking at Bright Star and Dr Drool's synths to refresh my memory now. Expect a post in an hour or so. Unless my fever comes back. Then expect some weird shit.


My GOD man, stay well. I have been at the feet of chemsitry folk for years and they rarely deigned to acknowlege my posts. We shan't speak of ortho-toluidine just yet, but....

I am curious about the oil that smells of root beer and candy shops.


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 9, 2012)

canndo said:


> My GOD man, stay well. I have been at the feet of chemsitry folk for years and they rarely deigned to acknowlege my posts. We shan't speak of ortho-toluidine just yet, but....
> 
> I am curious about the oil that smells of root beer and candy shops.


You read my mind! 

But, let's not ponder on sassafras too much. But, I don't mind talking about _"root beer floats!" _&#8203;


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## canndo (Feb 9, 2012)

There is something to be said for single malt scotch and a Hoyo D Monterey robusto. Ndanger.


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## VLRD.Kush (Feb 9, 2012)

ndangerspecimen101 said:


> Chemistry is playing God. Who doesn't like to be in the shoes of God for just one brief second.
> 
> Oh, this seminar has just begun.


And I'm not trying to take lives. Lol


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 9, 2012)

canndo said:


> There is something to be said for single malt scotch and a Hoyo D Monterey robusto. Ndanger.


Eureka!

You sly son of a gun.


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## MrEDuck (Feb 11, 2012)

Some notes about MDMA synthesis. Let's start with Bright Star. It's a workable synth, but it does have it's faults. First would be the use of peanut oil. Get a real high temp silicone oil. No one watches them and they don't smoke and don't have a habit of splattering (200°C+ oil hurts like a mofo, or hellfire as a research advisor of mine said). Next up is the methylamine from formaldehyde and ammonia. Jesus fucking Christ do not use this procedure as written. When it gets to the point where you start pulling vacuum turn the heat off and let it cool a minimum of 50°C. Never turn vacuum on a hot distillation no matter how careful you think you are. I used to do analytical distillations when I worked in alt fuel petrochemical research. The first fraction was done at atmospheric pressure, and the. You cooled it before turning on the vacuum, at least that's what you do if you don't want to see the mother of all bbumps, ruin your distillation and make one hell of a mess. 
Next what's up with using DCM as a solvent? Yuck, find a substitute. Also look into alternatives to DMF for the Wacker oxidation. That's some toxic shit. In the distillation don't use vacuum for the first fraction. Which should not be DCM because don't use halogenated organics as solvents if you can avoid it. Finally I don't care if you are Woodward himself recrystallize that shit. It was just sitting in a solution of mercury. If you don't recrystallize it and give it to another person you deserve to be shot in the genitals. 
So let's look at dr Drool's synth. This also starts with Safrole and uses DCM. Apparently the Hive died because everyone got cancer (seriously halogenated organics are bad). Why would someone vacuum distill nitromethane? You're gonna lose half of it to your poor pumps oil. If something boils at <150°C do an atmospheric distillation. 
OMG a ziplock bag has no place around chemicals. Rh where's the note saying don't do this. The reductive ammination looks sound. Do these guys have something against recrystallization? Does that ziplock bag give it some extra kick. 
So both synths are reasonable, provided some changes are made for the sake of safety (sanity?). Except that safrole is harder to get your hands on than a pig in a lube factory. So how do we get around this? We can make it ourselves of course. Back in the late nineties bulk sassafras oil was getting more difficult to obtain. Needless to say this was a major problem for some people. Well it turns out that if you heat allylcatechol sufficiently (~250°C IIRC) it thermally rearranges to to 1-allyl-3,4dihydroxybenzene. That's a methylene bridge away from being safrole. Hydroxy groups are pretty good nucleophiles, and deprotonation only makes em better. So it turns out dihalomethanes have a use in MDMA synth. Just as reagents, not solvents. DBM or DIM (Cl is a crap leaving group) mixed with your allylcatechol and some base and wala, you have safrole. 
Sorry it took me a few days to get this posted. I've felt terrible the last few days


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## sonar (Feb 11, 2012)

Maybe a silly question but would it be possible to extract a usable amount of safrole from sassafras plant material? The stuff grows everywhere around here.


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## DarthD3vl (Feb 11, 2012)

Excellent thread!


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## MrEDuck (Feb 12, 2012)

Sonar, I don't know very much about the production of sassafras oil. I know it's made by steaming the roots of a sassafras tree. No idea about the yield. I assume one tree should give a decent amount. I also assume it's a fuckload of work. Chopping a tree is one thing, digging up a few feet of roots is another. You'd need to figure out what kinda price you can get for bulk MDMA and do a cost benefit analysis. If you're doing it for headies, then I admire your work ethic.


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## MrEDuck (Feb 12, 2012)

Because I just unpacked my copy, if you are going to ever try any experiments the one chemistry book you must buy is The Organic Chem Lab Survival Manual by James Zubrick. It's probably on its 5th or 6th edition now, any edition is fine. I can't believe I forgot to mention it earlier.


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## MrEDuck (Feb 15, 2012)

The synthesis of phenethylamines and amphetamines via the Knoevengal Condensation. The Knoevengel condensation is great for making nitrostyrenes from benzaldehydes and nitromethane, or whatever you would call the amphetamine equivalent of a nitrostyrene by using nitroethane instead. These can then be easily reduced to phenethylamines or ampetamines by using reducing agents like lithium aluminum hydride or an Al/Hg amalgam. Most of the syntheses in PiHKAL use this reaction because it is an easy reaction with good yields. It can be run with a few different reaction conditions, solvent free using the nitro(m)ethane as both solvent and reagent in the presence of ammonium acetate as a catalyst, using acetic acid as the solvent and keeping the ammonium acetate, or my favorite way in the microwave using the nitro(m)ethane as solvent and base treated silica beads as the catalyst. The first two usually take 2hr-24hr of heating on the steambath to achieve good yields. I once discovered a bottle of 3,4,5 trimethoxybenzaldehyde looking for something else and decided to try the MW reaction. 5 mins and I had 88% yield of the nitrostyrene. I had several grams of mescaline within hours! Needless to say I was sold on microwave chemistry. One of the very interesting properties of a microwave is that the boiling points of many solvents are higher in a microwave than when they are heated thermally. So it's like using a pressure cooker to cook something faster because of boiling point elevation.

Above we have images of the various structures in the synthesis of mescaline (chem draw wasn't pulling its structure from mescaline so I just used it's IUPAC name). The nitromethane and the aldehyde bond losing a molecule of water (any condensation reaction is one where new bonds are formed and a molecule of water is lost) to form the betanitrostyrene, which is reduced to mescaline. If anyone wants me to draw out the mechanism I will.
I'm making progress on getting the LSD post done. There's so many fucking structures to draw though. I'll only have net access through my phone for the next day or so. Hopefully I can finish it up for Friday, otherwise it'll probably have to wait until Monday or Tuesday.
Because I was asked about 2Cs specifically as well I'll go over that quickly here. Generally they start in one of two ways. For 2C-H and the halogenated ones you start with 2,5 dimethoxybenzaldehyde, condense with nitromethane, and reduce to 2C-H. You can then tack on halogen by various methods. Like reacting it with elemental bromine to make 2C-B (why would you make another 2C? we know B is the king of the class). For the alkylated ones like -D and -E the starting material is p-dimethoxybenzene, which is alkylated with a Friedel-Crafts alkylation, then methylated and oxidized to an aldehyde. I imagine the purification for -D is a bitch. But again if you're making 2Cs why are you trying to make something that isn't B? I'll draw the 2 general syntheses out after I get done with the LSD post.


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## canndo (Feb 15, 2012)

As an aside now but I have to ask:

I have read that some sassafras oil does not contain safrole - how can we tell? (there is oil for sale on e-bay)


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## dam612 (Feb 15, 2012)

looks like ill be lurking on this thread, chemistry junkie who just graduated, havent done much drug synths but knowledgeable on all processes, theories, setups, structures etc...


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## MrEDuck (Feb 15, 2012)

Canndo you can determine safrole content of sassafras oil by it's congealing point. There's a paper in the Rhodium archive http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/safrole.congealing.html
There's no way to know until you have it in hand though.


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## MrEDuck (Feb 15, 2012)

dam612 said:


> looks like ill be lurking on this thread, chemistry junkie who just graduated, havent done much drug synths but knowledgeable on all processes, theories, setups, structures etc...


I hope you won't just be lurking if you have knowledge. What are you planning to specialize in now that you've graduated?


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## fourtwentychat (Feb 15, 2012)

Lets suppose that you were given a half-cup of concentrated cactus tea - a couple feet worth of Bridgesii, for example. Assuming that you would be unable to drink the tea as-is, what would be the simplest way for you to proceed, while using only the very minimum in terms of Chemistry tools and materials?


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 16, 2012)

MrEDuck said:


> Some notes about MDMA synthesis. Let's start with Bright Star. It's a workable synth, but it does have it's faults. First would be the use of peanut oil. Get a real high temp silicone oil. No one watches them and they don't smoke and don't have a habit of splattering (200°C+ oil hurts like a mofo, or hellfire as a research advisor of mine said). Next up is the methylamine from formaldehyde and ammonia. Jesus fucking Christ do not use this procedure as written. When it gets to the point where you start pulling vacuum turn the heat off and let it cool a minimum of 50°C. Never turn vacuum on a hot distillation no matter how careful you think you are. I used to do analytical distillations when I worked in alt fuel petrochemical research. The first fraction was done at atmospheric pressure, and the. You cooled it before turning on the vacuum, at least that's what you do if you don't want to see the mother of all bbumps, ruin your distillation and make one hell of a mess.
> Next what's up with using DCM as a solvent? Yuck, find a substitute. Also look into alternatives to DMF for the Wacker oxidation. That's some toxic shit. In the distillation don't use vacuum for the first fraction. Which should not be DCM because don't use halogenated organics as solvents if you can avoid it. Finally I don't care if you are Woodward himself recrystallize that shit. It was just sitting in a solution of mercury. If you don't recrystallize it and give it to another person you deserve to be shot in the genitals.
> So let's look at dr Drool's synth. This also starts with Safrole and uses DCM. Apparently the Hive died because everyone got cancer (seriously halogenated organics are bad). Why would someone vacuum distill nitromethane? You're gonna lose half of it to your poor pumps oil. If something boils at <150°C do an atmospheric distillation.
> OMG a ziplock bag has no place around chemicals. Rh where's the note saying don't do this. The reductive ammination looks sound. Do these guys have something against recrystallization? Does that ziplock bag give it some extra kick.
> ...


How about Nutmeg or Black Seed Oil. Certainly fractional distillation will have to take place before anything else gets started.


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 16, 2012)

sonar said:


> Maybe a silly question but would it be possible to extract a usable amount of safrole from sassafras plant material? The stuff grows everywhere around here.


It has be done. With great success. There's a heap load of work to be done before that sassafras is turned into safrole.

Luckily, sassafras is the most highest yielding compound of safrole, without other alkaloid derivatives that will necessarily effect the end product.


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 16, 2012)

canndo said:


> As an aside now but I have to ask:
> 
> I have read that some sassafras oil does not contain safrole - how can we tell? (there is oil for sale on e-bay)


Some don't contain safrole due to FDA restriction on things containing safrole. As safrole is known to be carcinogenic.

Root Beer and other products use other means of flavoring besides safrole now.


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## canndo (Feb 16, 2012)

and if, perhaps, a friend stashed about a liter of the original oil aside some years ago, might it still be good?


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## MrEDuck (Feb 16, 2012)

It'd be just fine Canndo. It might have degraded a bit but there should be plenty of useful safrole left.
To the guy with the gross cactus tea you need to do an acid base extraction. I wrote out a how to but the Internet ate it apparently. I'll rewrite it ASAP. Hope everyone's days are going better than mine. Talk to y'all soon.


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 16, 2012)

How many grams of safrole might be _converted_ from (1) liter of sassafras MrEDuck?

In addition, I have a few questions for you that I'll address in PM.


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## canndo (Feb 17, 2012)

ndangerspecimen101 said:


> How many grams of safrole might be _converted_ from (1) liter of sassafras MrEDuck?
> 
> In addition, I have a few questions for you that I'll address in PM.



TOOK the words right off of my keyboard Ndanger. (given that the person knew exactly how do execute the proceedures so that there was little waste - of course)


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## morfin56 (Feb 17, 2012)

ndangerspecimen101 said:


> How many grams of safrole might be _converted_ from (1) liter of sassafras MrEDuck?
> 
> In addition, I have a few questions for you that I'll address in PM.


Wouldn't that have to many factors to account for?
You always have really fine looking sand, makes me wonder.. LOL I'm not saying anything that you PROBABLY already KNOW.


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 17, 2012)

morfin56 said:


> Wouldn't that have to many factors to account for?
> You always have really fine looking sand, makes me wonder.. LOL I'm not saying anything that you PROBABLY already KNOW.


Exactly.

Rough estimate.

Each tree specimen is different. And the procedures involved in a distillation (Fractional Distillation) can vary to person to person. But, never hurts to formulate an educated guess.


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## MrEDuck (Feb 18, 2012)

Fourtwentychat, I don't blame you for not wanting to consume that. Cactus tea is gross. I'd use an acid base extraction on it. Start by acidifying the tea to pH 2-3 to make good and sure everything is ionized. Then wash with a nonpolar solvent. D-limonene is nice because food grade is readily available and inexpensive. Separate (a 500mL sep funnel is available from American Science and Surplus, sciplus.com, for $26) and pitch the organic (nonpolar) layer. It has all the fats and waxes that need to be removed to get a decent product instead of a gooey mess. Now raise the pH to 11.5-12, you should see a milky precipitate form. Now wash with nonpolar solvent and separate, save the nonpolar layer and wash the aqueous layer 3x with ~25mL of nonpolar solvent, save the aqueous layer for the moment in case something went wrong, it can be discarded once you have product. Pool the organic layers and wash them 3x with saturated NaCl solution (about 25mL per wash). Now you need to put some acid in to salt out the mescaline. I like dry HCl but that's a technique you shouldn't use if you aren't very familiar with labwork and know how to handle it, breathing that shit in is awful.
There's plenty of teks on the net. If you can concentrate vinegar (done by steadily adding ethyl acetate to the vinegar to form a low boiling azeotrope with the water, then distilling the remaining acetic acid once all the water and ethyl acetate have been boiled off) glacial acetic acid is awesome, you just pour it into the nonpolar layer and watching the crystals fall out of solution.
Everyone asking about safrole content of sassafras oil, the concentration varies a lot, but good sass oil should be in the range of 50-70% safrole. Safrole is slightly denser than water (~1.1g/mL) so if you can get 90% of it out you'll get about 45-65% of the original volume, which means about 500-650g of safrole. And you can get about 50% of that weight as product (varies based on method and experience).


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## canndo (Feb 18, 2012)

And your opinion of cheapskate's synth Mr. Duck?


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 18, 2012)

Yeah. Hydrochloride Gas is essentially war gas. Very deadly!


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## sevenfourteen (Feb 18, 2012)

Hey,, Im kinda new here. You guys are talking about one of my favorite things,,,ludes. Does anyone know a good fairly easy synth for ludes? Dont know much chemistry, but do know
alot about ludes. I want to make some for personal,, not for sales.


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## MrEDuck (Feb 18, 2012)

I'm not familiar with that particular synth Canndo. If you can send me a link I'll happily look through it. It might take me a day or two because I took a on tumble down a few steps bring some stuff down to the basement. So I may be taking enough painkillers to cause double vision. 
Sevenfourteen, it would be irresponsible of me to tell you a "recipe" like that. You admit to knowing little about chemistry. This ain't baking, these ingredients can cause cancer and kill you in other ways when used incorrectly.


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## sevenfourteen (Feb 18, 2012)

MrEDuck said:


> I'm not familiar with that particular synth Canndo. If you can send me a link I'll happily look through it. It might take me a day or two because I took a on tumble down a few steps bring some stuff down to the basement. So I may be taking enough painkillers to cause double vision.
> Sevenfourteen, it would be irresponsible of me to tell you a "recipe" like that. You admit to knowing little about chemistry. This ain't baking, these ingredients can cause cancer and kill you in other ways when used incorrectly.


It is supposed to be a not too difficult synth. Their are a few on google under methaqualone synthesis. My problem is that they are very technicle and really dont tell
you the exact amt of each precursor to use for each step. I found one synth that is done by microwave in two steps,, but you are right about the ingredients, they are
dangerous, so I want to know that it is right before I eat it.


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## morfin56 (Feb 18, 2012)

sevenfourteen said:


> It is supposed to be a not too difficult synth. Their are a few on google under methaqualone synthesis. My problem is that they are very technicle and really dont tell
> you the exact amt of each precursor to use for each step. I found one synth that is done by microwave in two steps,, but you are right about the ingredients, they are
> dangerous, so I want to know that it is right before I eat it.


Simplest solution, don't even think about trying a synth.
2 step?microwave?synth?
Gotta be kidding dude, you can't even make cookies in 2 steps.


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## MrEDuck (Feb 19, 2012)

Actually there are plenty of two step synths, especially for small simple molecules. The mescaline synth mentioned about is only two steps, condense and reduce. Salting out and recrystallizing don't really count. But when someone says they don't know anything about chem it's irresponsible to just tell them a reaction and hope they won't die. Take a year of organic and learn how to work in a lab.


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## morfin56 (Feb 19, 2012)

quaaludes though? 
You would need something very very similar in chemical structure to make it 2 steps.
Something that resembles quaads that much then its probably illegal too.

2 step synths bring to mind LSH from LSA.


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## MrEDuck (Feb 19, 2012)

So I read cheapskates lude synth. It looks like it should work very nicely, provided you have a real lab. He doesn't mention needing good ventilation for the nitration but does for the reduction o-nitrotoluene to o-toluidine. I've never done that, but I've nitrated the hell out of some toluene in my day (I really like making things go boom, but I stopped after 9/11. Fuck DHS knocking on my door!). If he isn't saying to vent that rxn but he is for the next step that is saying something. All reactions should be vented, but shit like nitrations really need it. You heat the reaction to drive off water and get STRONG acid fumes. Fuming acids deserve respect. Like fear of old testament god respect. This synth is for people with experience and fume hoods with impact resistant sashes designed for use with strong acids. I can't recall the type of paint used for them at the moment. 100 mesh iron filings are pretty sensitive as well. I did a lot of work with magnetic nanomaterials (Fe, FeO, Fe3O4, CoFe2O4, etc) and let's just say I'm really nonchalant when things spontaneously combust now. Don't leave this exposed to oxidizers. And think about investing in some argon (the best inert atmosphere going).
Anyone have any topics they'd like to see? I'm thinking of doing a post on orbitals and how they determine reactivity and some other non synth stuff.


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## ndangerspecimen101 (Feb 20, 2012)

sevenfourteen said:


> It is supposed to be a not too difficult synth. Their are a few on google under methaqualone synthesis. My problem is that they are very technicle and really dont tell
> you the exact amt of each precursor to use for each step. I found one synth that is done by microwave in two steps,, but you are right about the ingredients, they are
> dangerous, so I want to know that it is right before I eat it.


My intent is not to be rude. But, you never insert volatile chemicals into a literal microwave. You're going to have to subject yourself to strict reading. Or you can ingest something really horrible or worse yet blow up your parents yacht on the Florida Keys. This is not a geological map. There's not one route that will lead you to your destination. One error and Ka-Boom... your vapors.


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## MrEDuck (Mar 21, 2012)

Hey everyone. Sorry I've been away for awhile. Real life is really kicking my ass of late so I haven't had time for playing on the internet. So it's going to be a little while before I have time to start writing up big updates, but I can answer any questions posted here within 24-48 hours max. So please feel free to ask away and I'll get back to you as soon as possible.

Edit: I hadn't read the last post until just now, there are many safe MW reactions but unless you have a ref to a journal backing it up don't try it!! And read the referenced paper before trying it, even if you have to pay the $20 or whatever. They often have invaluable notes about safety and reaction optimization.


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## BadShroom86 (Mar 22, 2012)

simple question...can I throw some crushed up pills (xanax,methadone etc) In with my A/b Reaction to pull the hcl salts out. so I would have M.a laced with alprazolam or whatever..Just wondering if that would work in theory as it mite explain some wierd stuff i've been gettin..


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## MrEDuck (Mar 23, 2012)

BadShroom86 said:


> simple question...can I throw some crushed up pills (xanax,methadone etc) In with my A/b Reaction to pull the hcl salts out. so I would have M.a laced with alprazolam or whatever..Just wondering if that would work in theory as it mite explain some wierd stuff i've been gettin..


Nope, benzos don't form salts. Also that would be a horrible idea to have methadone spiked with random amounts of alprazolam. Methadona and alprazolam is a really dangerous combo.


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## morfin56 (Mar 23, 2012)

BadShroom86 said:


> simple question...can I throw some crushed up pills (xanax,methadone etc) In with my A/b Reaction to pull the hcl salts out. so I would have M.a laced with alprazolam or whatever..Just wondering if that would work in theory as it mite explain some wierd stuff i've been gettin..


HAHAH!
Pills are bad.


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## greenesthaze (Mar 23, 2012)

^^^^^^
this is a discussion thread not a bashing thread


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## morfin56 (Mar 23, 2012)

greenesthaze said:


> ^^^^^^
> this is a discussion thread not a bashing thread


Sorry, no bashing intended.


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## weasels911 (Mar 23, 2012)

greenesthaze said:


> ^^^^^^
> this is a discussion thread not a bashing thread



Prescription drug abuse is bad...
/Discuss


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## MrEDuck (Mar 24, 2012)

greenesthaze said:


> ^^^^^^
> this is a discussion thread not a bashing thread


Thanks greenest.
All drugs can be bad, I don't want anyone being put down for what they choose to take. Harm reduction advise is always welcome.


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## morfin56 (Mar 31, 2012)

Been thinking and I was wondering if that duck of yours has synthed DMT from store bought L-tryptophan.
Doesn't seem all to extensive and with a well drawn out process, yield might be pretty large.

Decarboxylation of 10g L-tryptophan to for an roughly estimated 9g(90%) yield of tryptamine.

Where would one go from there?


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## onebelo (Apr 1, 2012)

Happy to find this thread. I'ven been researching brightstar's and docter drool's synthesis and there are a lot of way's to do the same. Which one is the best? The destilation of the oil is very clear to me. But the other steps can be done in many way's and i can't make up the best one. I've the knowledge to do these steps but i don't have the time to test all the way's to find the best one. So how would you plan to do this? Which steps, which parts from the most common synthesis would you combine? Hoping you can help me!


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## MrEDuck (Apr 1, 2012)

morfin56 said:


> Been thinking and I was wondering if that duck of yours has synthed DMT from store bought L-tryptophan.
> Doesn't seem all to extensive and with a well drawn out process, yield might be pretty large.
> 
> Decarboxylation of 10g L-tryptophan to for an roughly estimated 9g(90%) yield of tryptamine.
> ...


It's really not practical considering there are like eleventyone billion plants that it can be extracted from. See Plants of the Gods for a list. 
To make DMT from tryptamine you can methylate it with iodomethane and form the trimethylammonium salt, then knock a methyl group off (see TiHKAL for details). Or you can use formic acid to form the amide and reduce it.
If you want to synth something from tryptophan I would suggest reducing it to make AMT, or reducing it to the alcohol and extending it by reaction with a cyanide and reducing to make AET. Obviously I do not reccomend anyone play around with cyanide outside of a real lab with plenty of experience. The reaction would run best with an acid solution of KCN. You know what else we use an acidic solution of KCN for? Gas chambers.


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## MrEDuck (Apr 1, 2012)

onebelo said:


> Happy to find this thread. I'ven been researching brightstar's and docter drool's synthesis and there are a lot of way's to do the same. Which one is the best? The destilation of the oil is very clear to me. But the other steps can be done in many way's and i can't make up the best one. I've the knowledge to do these steps but i don't have the time to test all the way's to find the best one. So how would you plan to do this? Which steps, which parts from the most common synthesis would you combine? Hoping you can help me!


The best method is the one you have the reagents and glassware for. I don't get into those kind of specifics. Look around the internet and you'll find plenty of info.


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## morfin56 (Apr 1, 2012)

Couldn't you just di-methylate the trytamine with formaldehyde and NaBH3CN in methanol?
Starting from 102(.5 mole) of L-tryptophan and decarboxylating that for a 90%+ yield of tryptamine, 
don't you think it would be well worth it yield wise?


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## MrEDuck (Apr 1, 2012)

morfin56 said:


> Couldn't you just di-methylate the trytamine with formaldehyde and NaBH3CN in methanol?
> Starting from 102(.5 mole) of L-tryptophan and decarboxylating that for a 90%+ yield of tryptamine,
> don't you think it would be well worth it yield wise?


That could work, I've never done it so you would want to search the literature and more likely places where bees hang out for tryptamine specific reactions. An Eschweiler-Clarke methylation could also work. There's too damn many ways to tack on a methyl group. 
I still say AMT is a better use of tryptophan and a strong reducing agent. Any of the billion acid/alcohol functional group inversions should do nicely, then reduce the alcohol.
You might run into problems with some of the tryptamine + formaldehyde reactions where rather than methylating you form a third ring where the formaldehyde carbon ends up binding the amine and the indole 2 position, i know they can do that under certain conditions. Trial and error may be involved if you can't find a setup that someone else did to peer review. Any of the methylations should yield some DMT, but it might be useless without purifying it on a column.
I really must confess I hadn't ever given this the thought it deserves because of the frequency of DMT in the natural world. Finding the enzyme that methylates tryptamine in nature and sticking it into a bacteria would be the ideal way (much like you can make some pretty cool 4-OH subbed tryptamines with mushrooms).


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## morfin56 (Apr 1, 2012)

What about refluxing tryptamine in a xylene with methyl iodide or dimethylzinc?

Methyliodide should be easy enough to procure.


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## MrEDuck (Apr 1, 2012)

They form salts. They're really potent methylators, that lone pair does a much better job binding to that carbon than either the iodine or the zinc. Iodine has no problem chilling with an extra electron out in space. How many protons does it have? The ratio of charge barely changes. Organometallic compounds aren't exactly the most stable of things. Dimethylzinc is one of the reasons for that reputation. When you google it the first link is it's Wikipedia entry, the second is http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2009/10/23/things_i_wont_work_with_straight_dimethyl_zinc.php

I need to pause here and mention my deep and abiding love of Things I Won't Work With. The guy is a very good chem blogger. It's not that interesting to most. TIWWW is appealing to anyone who wants to read about things like metal fluorine fires. Best advice for what do to around one is run. This shit burns sand. 
Anyway back to dimethylzinc, so it makes that list. I've worked with it, there is a purpose for which it is the most amazing thing ever for. Cleaning residual O2 and H2O out of your glovebox. Drop a few drops of it out. If it evaporates without smoke you're good. Drop it until it does. I managed to keep the worse glove box ever running functionally by cleaning it out before every use. Thankfully the stuff is available commercially.


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## canndo (May 17, 2012)

So, we've talked about the theoretical cleansing of MDMA, how about the purification of cocaine? I recall having a book about that once - it was recrystalized but I don't recall how.


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## morfin56 (May 17, 2012)

canndo said:


> So, we've talked about the theoretical cleansing of MDMA, how about the purification of cocaine? I recall having a book about that once - it was recrystalized but I don't recall how.


Some simple A/B procedures.
Or just recrystallize.

Ethanol, methanol, and acetone all would work I believe.


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## canndo (May 17, 2012)

morfin56 said:


> Some simple A/B procedures.
> Or just recrystallize.
> 
> Ethanol, methanol, and acetone all would work I believe.


I understand presence of water is a big killer, considering that the hcl is highly soluble. Baseify, dislove in acetone or methanol and resalt? no?


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## MrEDuck (May 17, 2012)

Cocaine has a pKa of 8.6, so at pH<=6.6 extract with nonpolar and discard. Raise pH to 10.6-11.0 and extract with nonpolar then bubble through with HCl. Reasonably pure cocaine HCl. Not sure what the best recrystallization solvent system is. Once you've recrystallized you can reflux it in acidic ethanol to get the much better cocaethylene without having to drink.


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## morfin56 (May 18, 2012)

You could freebase the cocaine with sodium carbonate in a flask of water. (1g Cc:50ml H20 pH 11)
Extract with petroleum ether and use anhydrous epsom salt to dry the solvent afterward. (~70% yield [20ml pet ether:1g Cc])
Precipitated with 2ml 38% HCl 50ml anhydrous acetone to every 2g of freebase.
Pour through filter to collect cocaine HCl crystals. 



MrEDuck said:


> Cocaine has a pKa of 8.6, so at pH<=6.6 extract with nonpolar and discard. Raise pH to 10.6-11.0 and extract with nonpolar then bubble through with HCl. Reasonably pure cocaine HCl. Not sure what the best recrystallization solvent system is. Once you've recrystallized you can reflux it in acidic ethanol to get the much better cocaethylene without having to drink.


This is ingenious, especially that last sentence. I would +rep but I need to spread rep around before giving more to you.


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## canndo (May 18, 2012)

But... would crystalized cocaethylene have roughly the same properties? I.E. disolve quickly,not sting etc? Interestingly, it could be argued that this chemical is legal. I see that it is more potent with dopamine trasporter but less with seratonin. Lasts longer - so, if you were to mix the two together you would have a fine coctail. Except for the possible hepatic and cardiotoxicity. Well, acording to a cursory review.


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## MrEDuck (May 18, 2012)

I wouldn't want to try to argue that one in a court of law. It's a (literally) textbook example of what kind of craziness can ensue when you mix drugs. You'd only make it for one reason.
It should have very similar properties, it's one carbon away from coke. The cardiac and heptatoxcities are less of a danger than mixing coke + booze. At least your liver wouldn't be making methanol in vivo. 
I really don't know much about come, the tropane ring should never be used as a foundation for a recreational drug. Coke and the Belladonna alkaloids. Count me out.


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## morfin56 (May 19, 2012)

I think the ignorance of the federal structural analogs act would slap you with a charge that you couldn't argue out of in court.
Probably even worse penalties than if you had just coke.


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## MrEDuck (May 20, 2012)

I've never even thought about trying to get around the analog act. If you need that to keep you safe you've fucked up badly at some point. It's one thing to use it to sell grey market products, manufacture is a very different story. If you get caught you're fucked. It's that simple.


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## VLRD.Kush (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm a Type 1 Diabetic, and have noticed something pretty weird with MDMA, my blood glucose goes WAYYY up when I consume. Can anyone comment on why this occurs? I've had it for 20 years now so I can usually tell when something is out of whack, and when I do feel like something's wrong I'm quick to fix it.


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## MrEDuck (Jun 19, 2012)

Stimulants in general often cause a jump in blood sugar, especially in diabetics. I just did some quick searches to see if the mechanism is known but couldn't find anything. Just don't do it because of this reason because drugs are evil. Just be mindful that sugar levels can be fuckwd up on MDMA and stims, and have everything you need to adjust them on hand. Low sugar is possible as well from dancing your ass off so keep a few glucose tabs as well.


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## VLRD.Kush (Jun 19, 2012)

MrEDuck said:


> Stimulants in general often cause a jump in blood sugar, especially in diabetics. I just did some quick searches to see if the mechanism is known but couldn't find anything. Just don't do it because of this reason because drugs are evil. Just be mindful that sugar levels can be fuckwd up on MDMA and stims, and have everything you need to adjust them on hand. Low sugar is possible as well from dancing your ass off so keep a few glucose tabs as well.


Thanks for the info. I definitely try to keep my glucose levels good, my granddad is blind because of not taking care of his diabetes.

There's just no reason to not take care of it, it's easy. Even at raves/ parties/ and shows, while drinking/ rolling/ tripping I can take care of my insulin doses.


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## smok3h (Jun 20, 2012)

I'm just guessing here, but perhaps something in the MDMA inhibits the body's cells' ability to utilize insulin and absorb blood glucose. Type 1 Diabetes means you naturally have little natural insulin production, right? This would lead to hyperglycemia if true.

I imagine a good way to test this would be: on the day you decide to roll, eat meals very similar to what you would eat on a normal day. test your blood glucose level before dosing to make sure it's at a predictably normal level. Then, an hour or two after dosing the MDMA, check your blood glucose level again. If the MDMA is the only other substance you've introduced to your body, and your blood glucose level is high, it's reasonable to deduce that there is in fact something in the MDMA that promotes hyperglycemia.


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## MrEDuck (Jun 20, 2012)

We don't need to do a test, stims cause it that's quite clear. A study into the mechanism would be awesome though.


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## VLRD.Kush (Jun 20, 2012)

I did do the test a few weeks ago, and it does make the glucose level go up. I was just curious as of why, and it seems there isn't a for sure answer.


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## cannabineer (Jun 20, 2012)

MrEDuck said:


> We don't need to do a test, stims cause it that's quite clear. A study into the mechanism would be awesome though.


Found this. cn



> Sympathomimetics may increase blood sugar via stimulation of beta2-receptors which leads to increased glycogenolysis.


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## cannabineer (Jun 21, 2012)

A little humor for the thread. cn


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## morfin56 (Jun 21, 2012)

Haha I like that picture.


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## MrEDuck (Jun 21, 2012)

That's one of my wife's favorite jokes.


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## morfin56 (Jun 21, 2012)

Mr.E.
Would safrole to MDP2P to MDMA yield higher then safrole to MDA to MDMA?


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## MrEDuck (Jun 21, 2012)

I've never synthed MDMA from MDA so I can't say for certain but as a general rule less reactions make for a better overall yield. Also the yields from reductive ammination are pretty close for methylamine and ammonia so unless you can N methylate MDA with really high yield the direct synth is better.


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## cannabineer (Jun 21, 2012)

The N-methylation is near quant. if you make the trifluoroacetamide of MDA, methylate that with methyl iodide, then alkalize away the trifluoroacetyl. Like buddah. But without a fume hood, no. cn


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## morfin56 (Jun 21, 2012)

Thanks.
After looking at the NASA MDA synth and their yield I thought maybe it would be a better route.

Have you tried a MDP2P synth from piperonal?
Or is safrole still preferred?

I might have to take a trip out to somewhere, where sassafras grows if I can't find a viable alternative.

My understanding is it will be a bitch to get enough piperonal.
Any suggestions?


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## MrEDuck (Jun 21, 2012)

The allyl ether of catechol will isomerize to 4-allylcatechol when heated. There's a paper in Rhodium's archive. You bridge it by reacting it with diiodomethane or dibromomethane (DCM can work but the rxn is slow and the yield is shit) with a strong base and a phase transfer catalyst.


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## VLRD.Kush (Jun 23, 2012)

one more thing...


It would probably be better to check glucose, then consume, check glucose again, then proceed with my evening? Correct?


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## MrEDuck (Jun 26, 2012)

That's how I would do it.


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## MrEDuck (Aug 1, 2012)

Good luck getting gammabutyrolactone in the US. If you manage to get it you mix it with a strong base (lye or KOH works best) in equimolar quantities. I hardly consider it synthesis. Becareful because bases burn horribly, you don't want GBL in your eyes, make sure to dilute the GBL and base with water first. 
If you find it be warned that it is extremely addictive and possibly the worst kick known to man. 

The Colorado River Toad does not produce DMT, but rather 5-MeO-DMT. Do some research about it. I have no idea how one gets it out as I refuse to harm a living thing in the name of getting high.


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## canndo (Aug 2, 2012)

MrEDuck said:


> Good luck getting gammabutyrolactone in the US. If you manage to get it you mix it with a strong base (lye or KOH works best) in equimolar quantities. I hardly consider it synthesis. Becareful because bases burn horribly, you don't want GBL in your eyes, make sure to dilute the GBL and base with water first.
> If you find it be warned that it is extremely addictive and possibly the worst kick known to man.
> 
> The Colorado River Toad does not produce DMT, but rather 5-MeO-DMT. Do some research about it. I have no idea how one gets it out as I refuse to harm a living thing in the name of getting high.


I am not a big believer in Karma but..... I can't imagine having a pleasant trip knowing that you killed something with awareness in order to have it. I have friends who have gotten this "toad sap" (I believe it was harvested without killing the creature) and none of them reported having a nice time under its influence.


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## MrEDuck (Aug 2, 2012)

I've never wanted to try 5-MeO-DMT based on the experience reports I've read.


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## ODanksta (Aug 2, 2012)

Sorry something happen to my account.. But you don't kill the toad.. It just sprays it out, it takes two weeks for the toad to replace the DMT.. You extract it by rubbing the bottom of the frogs chin.. And you made a comment that you refuse to harm a living thing.. But pot is a living thing and we chop, prune, grind and light her on fire.. Thanks anyways..


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## MrEDuck (Aug 2, 2012)

It's 5-MeO-DMT not DMT. Big difference.


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## VLRD.Kush (Aug 2, 2012)

It's a defense mechanism, so you're stressing the frog until it produces it's "venom", which is hurting it. Regardless, I've heard the amount that they produce per release is so small and it takes forever to build up enough useable product.

Also, comparing a living animal to a living plant is like apples to oranges man. Yeah their both alive, but lets be real here...


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## keepitcoastal (Aug 2, 2012)

process for turning crack into coke... lets just say i wanna know for shits n giggles

or you could do me one better and also say how to turn dried coca leafs into crack too


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## cannabineer (Aug 2, 2012)

MrEDuck said:


> It's 5-MeO-DMT not DMT. Big difference.


A fellow I once knew, quite the indole chemist, claimed that the 5-substituteds were the Dark Side. He way waay preferred the 4-substituteds, with an especial fond spot for 4-hydroxy-Mipt. cn


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## MrEDuck (Aug 3, 2012)

Keepitcoastal, the process is discussed on pages 10 and 11. I don't know anything about extracting coke from coca so anything I posted would just be someone else's info.


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## ODanksta (Aug 5, 2012)

Really? then you have never tasted Ayahuasca...


Pure Ignorance 


Just for proof "at least in my eyes" sorry froggy But maybe you missed the organic chemistry part of college... +rep because thats the kinda of guy I am... Much love


http://youtu.be/3nQgKlm4KBk

Lol now what?


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## Derple (Aug 6, 2012)

Great that there's finally a chemistry thread on RiU, good work, Duck.


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## ODanksta (Aug 6, 2012)

Super killer avatar.. 



cannabineer said:


> A fellow I once knew, quite the indole chemist, claimed that the 5-substituteds were the Dark Side. He way waay preferred the 4-substituteds, with an especial fond spot for 4-hydroxy-Mipt. cn


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## atidd11 (Aug 7, 2012)

5 meo dmt= great time...


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## atidd11 (Aug 7, 2012)

If anyone takes it from the ass of the frog ill be the first to try it.. Its as natural as it gets..


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## ODanksta (Aug 12, 2012)

Sorry to insult you on your page I would delete it but my edit button is gone for some reason..

I have respect for you, I was being ignorant. The Aya, made me change my thinking..


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## cannabineer (Aug 12, 2012)

ODanksta said:


> Sorry to insult you on your page I would delete it but my edit button is gone for some reason..
> 
> I have respect for you, I was being ignorant. The Aya, made me change my thinking..


Edit and delete are available for 72 hours after posting. Btw it's genuinely nice to see someone be gracious on these fora. cn


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## MrEDuck (Aug 14, 2012)

ODanksta said:


> Sorry to insult you on your page I would delete it but my edit button is gone for some reason..
> 
> I have respect for you, I was being ignorant. The Aya, made me change my thinking..


No worries, it's the internet so I don't take much seriously. But thank you for apologizing. That I do take seriously because it's so rare that someone will admit they're wrong on the internet.


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## atidd11 (Aug 22, 2012)

When laying 25c nbombe can you use 92% iso alcohol


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## MrEDuck (Aug 22, 2012)

If could find it. IPA is generally available as 70%, 91%, or 99%. 
I hope you're honest about what you have, or you could very well have a death on your karma. Unlike acid eating a ten strip of an NBOMe could kill you.


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## atidd11 (Aug 22, 2012)

Id never eat a ten strip of nbome lol but yeah the bottle says iso 92%


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## MrEDuck (Aug 22, 2012)

That's fucking strange.


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## atidd11 (Aug 23, 2012)

Well im an idiot its 91% cuda swore it said 92 lol


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## anjin (Oct 19, 2012)

Hi,

Just regged here because i am starting a little grow soon 

I noticed this chemistry thread and since my uncle is a bit of a garage chemist himself ... 

I just want to say that it took him maybe all in all 3 years to figure and work it all out but he managed to synth* MDA* in his kitchen 
Everything he used is o.t.c (over the counter) if you know where to look. 

Even piperonal _(it has many legit applications and can be extracted and purified from otc products_ ! )

He said he could have made MDMA instead but where he lives it's everywhere and cheap.


*Note:* I'm not suggesting that it is easy to make MDA or MDMA yourself but if you are determined enough it is still possible!


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## MrEDuck (Oct 19, 2012)

It's actually not very hard to make most drugs if you have some lab ability and can read journal articles. People act like these syntheses are some heavily guarded secret that you need to be initiated into some secret society to get when the reality is that most drugs are made by people working in academic or pharma research and get published in open journals or patented.
Access to chems has gotten more restricted but it's still quite possible to get them. I just wouldn't recommend doing it in the USA because of our terrible laws. Canada and most of Europe are much better places to go.
Also don't perform synthesis in your kitchen. You prepare and eat food in there.


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## anjin (Oct 19, 2012)

Well i agree that *SOME* drugs are pretty basic to make for hobbyists. 
GHB from lactone, meth from cold pills , alkaloid extractions from plants etc.
Hell even amphetamine from benzaldehyde is "doable" with a little practice.

But MDA and MDMA is a whole different ballpark with heavily watched precursors and you gotta be pretty damn determined and creative to succeed nowadays


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## MrEDuck (Oct 19, 2012)

Not really. There's plenty of routes that never go near a watched precursor. So you take a hit on yield compared to starting with safrole, you also don't have all the local DEA agents show up to deliver your heavily watched precursor.
Amp from benzaldehyde isn't "doable with practice," if anything it's easier than extracting pseudoephedrine and reducing it. Run a Knoevengal in the microwave over silica with nitroethane as solvent, filter and rinse the silica beads and strip the solvent and reduce the nitrostyrene. I'd bet it's much faster than the pseudo reduction as well.
Most PEAs and simple tryptamines are pretty easy if you have some lab experience and are willing to put some time into study.


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## canndo (Oct 23, 2012)

There are "watched" chemicals and there are watched cemicals. Some of the more common ones are put on a watch list just so the DEA and locals can enforce laws. Pick up a couple of gallons of toluene and no one will look at you twice. Get a couple of 55's and you might ge some questions. Order a rail car of it and..... well, you know.


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## MrEDuck (Oct 23, 2012)

Yeah solvents aren't closely watched at all. For other stuff it depends on how restricted it is and wether you're a private citizen or a chem company. For example as a private citizen if you tried to get any amount of methylamine you're going to get attention. If you're at a chemical company and ordered a liter of it and nothing else that's a precursor no one is going to look at it twice. If you tried to order a barrel of it or order any amount of it and something like safrole of phenyl-2-propene expect a visit from the DEA. While stuff like ergotamine is going to get noticed in any amount.


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## VLRD.Kush (Nov 27, 2012)

Why is my Liquid Plumber all chunky and coagulated? ...Serious question, my fucking sink is so clogged from cleaning my bongs and pipes


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## MrEDuck (Nov 27, 2012)

It probably dried out a bit. Although lye will suck moisture out of the air. Wear gloves to handle it!
Most, if not all, of their formulations are just lye and a surfactant.


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## canndo (Nov 28, 2012)

Ok, I am somewhat confused with this mescaline extraction. I find instructions claiming that I should acidulate the water in order to salt the alkaloids while I am doing my initial reduction/boiling/ extraction. One method does not include heat at all, and has me baseify the liquid with the cactus in it and use the zylene.

What is the best method, boil the concoction and then alter the ph? alter the ph of the liquid before I add the bulk? acidify? or basefy?

The last time I did this was with peyote, dried and ground and don't recall any of this.


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## MrEDuck (Nov 28, 2012)

If you're not working with dried material I'd cook it in an acidic solution for an hour or two, then filter it and defat it. While you work this up cook the filtered sludge in acid (I'd do a min o three pulls) adding a little more acidity each time. 
While you do this raise the pH of the defatted layer to 11.6 and extract with your np solvent. Repeat the process on each of the subsequent pulls from the acidified cacti broth. Then pool the nonpolar layers and wash 3x basic brine with a pH ~ 11.6. Then Concentrte it down a bit and salt out with your preferred method.

Edit: just to be a bit more clear I would cook the cactus down in the acidic solution. Freezing and thawing at least twice before starting on it helps break cell walls as well.


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## canndo (Nov 29, 2012)

MrEDuck said:


> If you're not working with dried material I'd cook it in an acidic solution for an hour or two, then filter it and defat it. While you work this up cook the filtered sludge in acid (I'd do a min o three pulls) adding a little more acidity each time.
> While you do this raise the pH of the defatted layer to 11.6 and extract with your np solvent. Repeat the process on each of the subsequent pulls from the acidified cacti broth. Then pool the nonpolar layers and wash 3x basic brine with a pH ~ 11.6. Then Concentrte it down a bit and salt out with your preferred method.
> 
> Edit: just to be a bit more clear I would cook the cactus down in the acidic solution. Freezing and thawing at least twice before starting on it helps break cell walls as well.



got it. Now let us talk about the pith in the middle of the woody core. I am stripping the core out because it will cause some havoc in my wife's equipment - BAAAAD idea, as it will turn this project from a 50 dollar endeavor into a $400 one in a few short minutes, should her processor come to harm. She is a very forgiving person and lets me use everything but her ceramic knives for my... er.... projects, once having ruined a le cruse pot with corn boiled dry - now THAT turned into a windy afternoon. (you know it has just come to me that we each have a very extensive set of implements - I with my vaccuum pumps and milligram scales and ultrasonic cleaners and glassware and mag stirurs and laimar hoods and she with her expenive pots and blenders and slicers and such) 


Enough - one more thing, I believe you were paying attention during the harvest so many months ago, most are still fully green and have not dried, not even the test "plugs", which were about an inch or so slices - yes some are even growing sprites again after I plucked some of them last time and planted them. This stuff will not dry out in any traditional sense. I opted not to place the pieces in the oven because I think it will overload my grinder - I've lost several recently to other projects and they no longer cost 12 bucks each, let alone the volume I will have to go through - and this stuff turns pretty hard when it finally does dry. - and now I forgot my question - never mind - oh, what temperature is still safe for the final product if I were to dry in the oven?

But there is a pith inside of that core and I wonder if it has any active components. I would simply use it as well, no real harm done except that there is some real work involved in gettting it out as opposed to stripping the flesh from the outside of that core. Any ideas?


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## MrEDuck (Nov 29, 2012)

To the best of my knowledge the cores have no actives. And wrecking your wife's stuff is probably not worth it even if there is. I'd try drying stuff in the oven at a reasonably low temp, say 225°F. Should make it easier to work with.


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## canndo (Dec 12, 2012)

MrEDuck said:


> Some notes about MDMA synthesis. Let's start with Bright Star. It's a workable synth, but it does have it's faults. First would be the use of peanut oil. Get a real high temp silicone oil. No one watches them and they don't smoke and don't have a habit of splattering (200°C+ oil hurts like a mofo, or hellfire as a research advisor of mine said). Next up is the methylamine from formaldehyde and ammonia. Jesus fucking Christ do not use this procedure as written. When it gets to the point where you start pulling vacuum turn the heat off and let it cool a minimum of 50°C. Never turn vacuum on a hot distillation no matter how careful you think you are. I used to do analytical distillations when I worked in alt fuel petrochemical research. The first fraction was done at atmospheric pressure, and the. You cooled it before turning on the vacuum, at least that's what you do if you don't want to see the mother of all bbumps, ruin your distillation and make one hell of a mess.
> Next what's up with using DCM as a solvent? Yuck, find a substitute. Also look into alternatives to DMF for the Wacker oxidation. That's some toxic shit. In the distillation don't use vacuum for the first fraction. Which should not be DCM because don't use halogenated organics as solvents if you can avoid it. Finally I don't care if you are Woodward himself recrystallize that shit. It was just sitting in a solution of mercury. If you don't recrystallize it and give it to another person you deserve to be shot in the genitals.
> So let's look at dr Drool's synth. This also starts with Safrole and uses DCM. Apparently the Hive died because everyone got cancer (seriously halogenated organics are bad). Why would someone vacuum distill nitromethane? You're gonna lose half of it to your poor pumps oil. If something boils at <150°C do an atmospheric distillation.
> OMG a ziplock bag has no place around chemicals. Rh where's the note saying don't do this. The reductive ammination looks sound. Do these guys have something against recrystallization? Does that ziplock bag give it some extra kick.
> ...



I am just reviewing this. Hmmm.


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## canndo (Dec 12, 2012)

Freezing doesn't really seem to do much, I would have thought it would result in some ragged green globbs of goo.


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## Jp2cbxxxQC (Dec 12, 2012)

From Québec, Canada ..probably youll be able to coopérate with me in learning and legal statuses advantages I got within 2-c family non forbid in my province and so for pseudoe, e, etafedrine, ethylephrine ect.. and spot easy cooks! Ive managed to synthesize some good stuff wtih allegra-d that is fexofenadine+120 mg pseudoe that Ive growed into a solution with H2o and filtered knowing that fexo isnt water dissolvable just there the pure pseudo after a good heet quench was so cute I would cry then Im tryin with a lithium strip and NaOH attacks..that seem right with a bronze allure to my lithium and all reactions done Ive tried filtering , acétone cleaning and there im stuck at the Hcl gizmo thing.....I use hcl 20% with Salt (Big salt NaCl only) to create something like ammonia I guess do I have to solubilze my e in water in first case and than with a gas gizmo introduce this in the solution? correct me I you like anybody Its for a cooperation Ive got nice hints to give ! Could you give me one here
JP!!


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## VLRD.Kush (Dec 30, 2012)

What did these clowns cut my Molly with that makes it taste and smell like saw dust??

I wouldn't have even bought it if I didn't already tell my friend I'd go in half with him. I took one look at it and knew it was stomped on hard...


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## MrEDuck (Jan 1, 2013)

Not sure on that one.


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## VLRD.Kush (Jan 1, 2013)

hahaha, Well it was decent. Definitely not the best but not the was worst


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## Pantheist (Jan 6, 2013)

Hey, just read through this thread and it was pretty interesting. You guys definitely seem to know what you're talking about.

Anyway, SWIM is interested in extracting morphine from poppy straw. Most methods SWIM has run into on the internet seem to just be variations of each other, and while SWIM has used the standard method and had it work the yield was pretty disappointing. 

Today I ran into this method- have any thoughts on it? 

"If I had to pull morphine from pods, I would go brute force, STB: add ground pods to an equal volume 5M soln of NaOH, let soak for 4-5 hours, filter, allow microparticulate to settle, decant, then add enough CO2 to get the pH below 6 for a defat with heptane. Last step would be to slow-vap the water off under light heat to leave a goo consisting of morphine bicarbonate and sodium bicarbonate. The morphine should dissolve in ethanol, while the baking soda should not, the ethanol could then be evap'd to yield the crude.

Going with an STB route would ensure that no alkaloid remains stuck in the plant matter. Also minimizes the exposure to acid, which degrades morphine really quickly."
(source)


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## MrEDuck (Jan 6, 2013)

That's not right. The way to do it is to use calcium carbonate to make calcium morphenate (pH=9.1 iirc), filter off all the other stuff then precipitate the morphine.


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## cannabineer (Jan 6, 2013)

I believe you need slaked lime on that, and they still work with boiled opium. Iirc. cn


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## Pantheist (Jan 6, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> That's not right. The way to do it is to use calcium carbonate to make calcium morphenate (pH=9.1 iirc), filter off all the other stuff then precipitate the morphine.


yeah, that's the way swim has done it in the past, but the yeilds are very low.


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## Pantheist (Jan 8, 2013)

Sorry to monopolize the thread, but since no one else is asking questions now anyway...

How about the first procedure outlined here? If it worked it would be really nice in that it has a high yield and doesn't require boron tribromide which is a pain to get your hands on (and even worse if it were to get on your hands )


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## sonar (Jan 12, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> That's not right. The way to do it is to use calcium carbonate to make calcium morphenate (pH=9.1 iirc), filter off all the other stuff then precipitate the morphine.


Interesting. Can you describe this in a bit more detail Duck. Would this process work with just the seeds?


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## SnakeByte (Jan 12, 2013)

I have always been interested in the synth of Lysergic acid diethylamide.


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## sonar (Jan 12, 2013)

SnakeByte said:


> I have always been interested in the synth of Lysergic acid diethylamide.


Haven't we all.


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## canndo (Jan 12, 2013)

There seems to be many peculiarities in the constituants of poppy straw that inhibits it from being easily extrated to morphine. It just isn't so simple as using a solvent and salting that out. Some of the baltic countries have made inroads into straw liquor based extractions with varying amounts of sucess. I don't recall my research any more but there is a name for the result and it ends to kill lots of IV users.


One cannot, in my understanding, render proper opium from dried straw or even dried capsules. You can get some sort of sappy tar or paste but it is unsuitable for smoking though you can eat it to reasonable effect. Heaven knows I've tried every common internet solution I have encountered, at one time having an abundance of straw, and an abundance of old world tai. My dream wasto make opiated tai sticks. I managed to perfect the tai stick method pretty well - and it is harder than you might imagine.

You have to have sort of stringy buds, you have to find relatively straight stems that must be split into reasonable sticks and most importantly, you have to crush the thicker stems while wet and then draw the fiber from the result leaving yourselfa foot and a half or more filiments and then dry them.


Then you have to assemble the entire thing, wrapping your buds evenly around your stick while winding your hemp thread around the stick in a helical pattern. After the thing dries you have a semblance of an authentic tai stick. I wanted to brick them up and wrap them in vietnamese newspaper (easy enough to get in little saigons in every major city).


The problem was spraying this with opiated solution andI just couldn't manage to extract such a solution from the straw.

I have always had my doubts as to the whether the original lowland tai really was dipped or sprayed in opium. I have had my share of real lowland and golden triangle tai stick but it was before I ever had much experience with opium so i really don't know. And of course, for those who remember, that stuff was killer,especially so considering that it's nearest competitor in that era was seeded Mexican varieties and a smattering of the real comlumbian gold. Good as those kinds were they didn't hold a candle to the tai.


Oh, and I discovered that there is some process that uses ionic resin in order to extract the active constitutants of poppy tea. I have no idea what that was all about.

Maybe our good Dr. Duck could shed some light on that. <- one of my poorer attempts - i got marginaly better but the better ones got snatched up and smoked out of nostalgia . The object of course is to have the sticks all the same length, all very straight, the filiments thin and uniform and everything made completely of hemp so that you could cut a bit off and smoke everything if you were willing to smoke that bit of dried stem.


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## MrEDuck (Jan 13, 2013)

SnakeByte said:


> I have always been interested in the synth of Lysergic acid diethylamide.


It's fairly complex, air, moisture and light sensitivity make for a challenging synthesis. 

Sonar I need to do a little research because I haven't extracted morphine in a long time. Gimme a day or so.


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## MrEDuck (Jan 13, 2013)

I'll also have to do some reading about Thai sticks


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## 2cimdma (Jan 22, 2013)

Sorry just read one page and saw poppy straw, poppy tea, and morphine.......yep I'm interested in this discussion. Someone's looking to extract morphine? I have done it from opium on quite a few(a whole friggin bunch)of times, but its always from the opium not the poppy straw, though I heard(I could be wrong)that that is the new up and coming way for alkaloid extraction. They grow the poppies they let them dry, and then cut them all down. Then extract in some various manner. But anyways. If you need to convert opium to morphine I can help, but not straw to morphine..I've never even attempted.


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## brimck325 (Jan 22, 2013)

i was always told, opiated grass was from them throwing the leftover wash on the cannabis.


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## canndo (Jan 22, 2013)

Don't know what the left over wash is- like the water after the opium is cooked?


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## brimck325 (Jan 22, 2013)

yes, thats what i was told. it made sense as the sticks had a white film on em. doesn,t make it true though.


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## canndo (Jan 22, 2013)

brimck325 said:


> yes, thats what i was told. it made sense as the sticks had a white film on em. doesn,t make it true though.



There were, at the time, a group of people who would call anything white - opium. There was a lot of white lines through varous hand rubbed hash and everyone was calling it opium - it was actually mold. Opium is brown or very very dark green. I never saw any white tai stick and we were fiends for the stuff, being so snobby that we woudn't smoke anything but that, columbian gold or "chamba" on the few times we could get that.


There is raw opium and cooked opium, the cooked is warmed in water and the water washes the sticks and leafy bits and dirt off of the opium, it is then pulled out of the water a bit at a time and rolled around a stick, that is repeated until you have a ball. The cooked opium has a slightly different consistancy, sort of rubbery. Some say it is twice as potent but I never found that to be true - it does taste quite a bit better. Anyway, I always presumed they just threw that wash water away - it very well could have been poured over pot and I'm sure there would be some effect. Then you get into matters of proximity - I don't know how much high quality opium was grown in the region of tailand where they grew and produced real tai sticks. It was a long time ago and I have lost contact with all of the folks that knew the lor and... brought us the sticks near the end of the war - what? three wars back now? what a shame to be able to measure time with wars.


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## MrEDuck (Jan 22, 2013)

I haven't been able to find anything definite about it. The most plausible is that it was some kind of hash oil.


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## HolySmoke420 (Jan 24, 2013)

Hello all, I've been on this site under another username but I forgot what it was and the password.
Back to the subject at hand, does anyone have a method of making mdma or extracting dmt?
The reason I ask is because I have a buddy that claims he has the "recipe" and I want to confirm he is correct


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## MrEDuck (Jan 24, 2013)

Post what you have and I'll give feedback.


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## otleyonlysessions (Feb 26, 2013)

DMT synthesis: could the Eschweiler-Clarke reaction be used? would any controlled substances be used?


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## 2cimdma (Feb 26, 2013)

HolySmoke420 said:


> Hello all, I've been on this site under another username but I forgot what it was and the password.
> Back to the subject at hand, does anyone have a method of making mdma or extracting dmt?
> The reason I ask is because I have a buddy that claims he has the "recipe" and I want to confirm he is correct


The following is from the Godfather of phenylethylamines and tryptamines. He and his wife wrote two very interesting books that can be downloaded for free on various sites. You can even find it using Frostwire. It will have the route of synthesis of many interesting chemicals and he also ingests many and gives trip reports. Hope this helps with your MDMA "recipe". There are other ways to go about synthesizing MDMA though.


Reference: http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal109.shtml







 [h=2]#109 MDMA[/h] *MDM; ADAM; ECSTASY; 3,4-METHYLENEDIOXY-N-METHYLAMPHETAMINE* 


*SYNTHESIS:* (from MDA) A solution of 6.55 g of 3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA) as the free base and 2.8 mL formic acid in 150 mL benzene was held at reflux under a Dean Stark trap until no further H2O was generated (about 20 h was sufficient, and 1.4 mL H2O was collected). Removal of the solvent gave an 8.8 g of an amber oil which was dissolved in 100 mL CH2Cl2, washed first with dilute HCl, then with dilute NaOH, and finally once again with dilute acid. The solvent was removed under vacuum giving 7.7 g of an amber oil that, on standing, formed crystals of N-formyl-3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine. An alternate process for the synthesis of this amide involved holding at reflux for 16 h a solution of 10 g of MDA as the free base in 20 mL fresh ethyl formate. Removal of the volatiles yielded an oil that set up to white crystals, weighing 7.8 g. 

A solution of 7.7 g N-formyl-3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine in 25 mL anhydrous THF was added dropwise to a well stirred and refluxing solution of 7.4 g LAH in 600 mL anhydrous THF under an inert atmosphere. The reaction mixture was held at reflux for 4 days. After being brought to room temperature, the excess hydride was destroyed with 7.4 mL H2O in an equal volume of THF, followed by 7.4 mL of 15% NaOH and then another 22 mL H2O. The solids were removed by filtration, and the filter cake washed with additional THF. The combined filtrate and washes were stripped of solvent under vacuum, and the residue dissolved in 200 mL CH2Cl2. This solution was extracted with 3x100 mL dilute HCl, and these extracts pooled and made basic with 25% NaOH. Extraction with 3x75 mL CH2Cl2 removed the product, and the pooled extracts were stripped of solvent under vacuum. There was obtained 6.5 g of a nearly white residue which was distilled at 100-110 ° C at 0.4 mm/Hg to give 5.0 g of a colorless oil. This was dissolved in 25 mL IPA, neutralized with concentrated HCl, followed by the addition of sufficient anhydrous Et2O to produce a lasting turbidity. On continued stirring, there was the deposition of fine white crystals of 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine hydrochloride (MDMA) which were removed by filtration, washed with Et2O, and air dried, giving a final weight of 4.8 g. 

(from 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone) This key intermediate to all of the MD-series can be made from either isosafrole, or from piperonal via 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-nitropropene. To a well stirred solution of 34 g of 30% hydrogen peroxide in 150 g 80% formic acid there was added, dropwise, a solution of 32.4 g isosafrole in 120 mL acetone at a rate that kept the reaction mixture from exceeding 40 ° C. This required a bit over 1 h, and external cooling was used as necessary. Stirring was continued for 16 h, and care was taken that the slow exothermic reaction did not cause excess heating. An external bath with running water worked well. During this time the solution progressed from an orange color to a deep red. All volatile components were removed under vacuum which yielded some 60 g of a very deep red residue. This was dissolved in 60 mL of MeOH, treated with 360 mL of 15% H2SO4, and heated for 3 h on the steam bath. After cooling, the reaction mixture was extracted with 3x75 mL Et2O, the pooled extracts washed first with H2O and then with dilute NaOH, and the solvent removed under vacuum The residue was distilled (at 2.0 mm/108-112 ° C, or at about 160 ° C at the water pump) to provide 20.6 g of 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone as a pale yellow oil. The oxime (from hydroxylamine) had a mp of 85-88 ° C. The semicarbazone had a mp of 162-163 ° C. 

An alternate synthesis of 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone starts originally from piperonal. A suspension of 32 g electrolytic iron in 140 mL glacial acetic acid was gradually warmed on the steam bath. When quite hot but not yet with any white salts apparent, there was added, a bit at a time, a solution of 10.0 g of 1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-2-nitropropene in 75 mL acetic acid (see the synthesis of MDA for the preparation of this nitrostyrene intermediate from piperonal and nitroethane). This addition was conducted at a rate that permitted a vigorous reaction free from excessive frothing. The orange color of the reaction mixture became very reddish with the formation of white salts and a dark crust. After the addition was complete, the heating was continued for an additional 1.5 h during which time the body of the reaction mixture became quite white with the product appeared as a black oil climbing the sides of the beaker. This mixture was added to 2 L H2O, extracted with 3x100 mL CH2Cl2, and the pooled extracts washed with several portions of dilute NaOH. After the removal of the solvent under vacuum, the residue was distilled at reduced pressure (see above) to provide 8.0 g of 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone as a pale yellow oil. 

To 40 g of thin aluminum foil cut in 1 inch squares (in a 2 L wide mouth Erlenmeyer flask) there was added 1400 mL H2O containing 1 g mercuric chloride. Amalgamation was allowed to proceed until there was the evolution of fine bubbles, the formation of a light grey precipitate, and the appearance of occasional silvery spots on the surface of the aluminum. This takes between 15 and 30 min depending on the freshness of the surfaces, the temperature of the H2O, and the thickness of the aluminum foil. (Aluminum foil thickness varies from country to country.) The H2O was removed by decantation, and the aluminum was washed with 2x1400 mL of fresh H2O. The residual H2O from the final washing was removed as thoroughly as possible by shaking, and there was added, in succession and with swirling, 60 g methylamine hydrochloride dissolved in 60 mL warm H2O, 180 mL IPA, 145 mL 25% NaOH, 53 g 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone, and finally 350 mL IPA. If the available form of methylamine is the aqueous solution of the free base, the following sequence can be substituted: add, in succession, 76 mL 40% aqueous methylamine, 180 mL IPA, a suspension of 50 g NaCl in 140 mL H2O that contains 25 mL 25% NaOH, 53 g 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone, and finally 350 mL IPA. The exothermic reaction was kept below 60 ° C with occasional immersion into cold water and, when it was thermally stable, it was allowed to stand until it had returned to room temperature with all the insolubles settled to the bottom as a grey sludge. The clear yellow overhead was decanted and the sludge removed by filtration and washed with MeOH. The combined decantation, mother liquors and washes, were stripped of solvent under vacuum, the residue suspended in 2400 ml of H2O, and sufficient HCl added to make the phase distinctly acidic. This was then washed with 3x75 mL CH2Cl2, made basic with 25% NaOH, and extracted with 3x100 mL of CH2Cl2. After removal of the solvent from the combined extracts, there remained 55 g of an amber oil which was distilled at 100-110 ° C at 0.4 mm/Hg producing 41 g of an off-white liquid. This was dissolved in 200 mL IPA, neutralized with about 17 mL of concentrated HCl, and then treated with 400 mL anhydrous Et2O. After filtering off the white crystals, washing with an IPA/Et2O mixture, (2:1), with Et2O, and final air drying, there was obtained 42.0 g of 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine (MDMA) as a fine white crystal. The actual form that the final salt takes depends upon the temperature and concentration at the moment of the initial crystallization. It can be anhydrous, or it can be any of several hydrated forms. Only the anhydrous form has a sharp mp; the published reports describe all possible one degree melting point values over the range from 148-153 ° C. The variously hydrated polymorphs have distinct infrared spectra, but have broad mps that depend on the rate of heating. 

*DOSAGE:* 80 - 150 mg. 

*DURATION:* 4 - 6 h.


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## MrEDuck (Feb 26, 2013)

otleyonlysessions said:


> DMT synthesis: could the Eschweiler-Clarke reaction be used? would any controlled substances be used?


It should. It's much easier to extract DMT than to synthesize it though.


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## 2cimdma (Feb 26, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> It should. It's much easier to extract DMT than to synthesize it though.


Yes it is for sure easier to extract than to synthesize it. But for the synthesis you can take a look at another book by Alexander and Ann Shulgin. The book is named Tihkal and can be downloaded on many different sites shere is also a link: http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal06.shtml





 [h=2]#6. DMT[/h] * TRYPTAMINE, N,N-DIMETHYL; INDOLE, 3-[2-(DIMETHYLAMINO)ETHYL]; N,N-DIMETHYLTRYPTAMINE; 3-[2-(DIMETHYLAMINO)ETHYL]INDOLE; DESOXYBUFOTENINE; NIGERINE *








  [*3D .jpg image*]
[*3D .mol structure*]  
 *SYNTHESIS* : (from N,N,N-trimethyltryptammonium iodide, dimethyltryptamine methiodide, DMT·CH3I): This quaternary salt is prepared from tryptamine and methyl iodide. To a stirred solution of 3 g tryptamine in 30 mL IPA there was added 10 g methyl iodide. Cream-colored solids appeared immediately and, after 12 h stirring at room temperature, these were removed by filtration, washed twice with IPA and warm isopropanol, and air dried to constant weight. There was thus obtained 1.81 g N,N,N-trimethyltryptammonium iodide. Recrystallization of an analytical sample using acetonitrile gave a white crystalline product with a mp of 210-211 °C. IR (in cm-1): 767, 919, 953, 978, 1105, with a sharp stretch at 3400. In principle, DMT is contained in the filtrate along with NMT and tryptamine itself. The tryptamine can be removed based on its ether insolubility and the NMT by its conversion to the benzamide with acetic anhydride or benzoyl chloride. The remaining basic material is largely DMT which can be further purified as the picrate salt. The yield is minuscule, and better results are obtained by the demethylation of this salt.

The demethylation of the iodide salt: Under an inert atmosphere, a solution of 0.40 g N,N,N-trimethyltryptammonium iodide in 5 mL THF was treated with 1.5 mL of 1M LiEt3BH in THF and held at reflux temperature for 9 h. After cooling, the mixture was acidified with dilute HCl and the THF removed under vacuum. The residue was suspended in dilute NaOH and extracted with Et2O. The extracts were pooled, and the solvent removed under vacuum to provide a residue of 0.12 g N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) as a crystalline solid, with a mp of 57-59 °C. IR (in cm-1): 732, 740, 811, 859, 1011, 1037, 1110, 1171. The MS is discussed below.

The demethylation of the chloride salt: A hot aqueous solution of N,N,N-trimethyltryptammonium iodide was treated with an excess of freshly precipitated AgCl, and all was boiled gently for 15 min. The mixed silver halides were removed by filtration, and the filtrate stripped of H2O as rapidly as possible. To the residue there was added a small amount of MeOH follow by acetone until the crystallization of N,N,N-trimethyltryptammonium chloride was complete. It had a mp of 193 °C (80%), and it is considerably more water soluble than the starting iodide. This salt was pyrolysed under hard vacuum and the residue distilled. This distillate was dissolved in a small amount of methanol and acidified with dilute nitric acid. A small amount of insoluble material was removed by filtration, the aqueous phase washed with CHCl3, made basic with aqueous NaOH, and extracted with CHCl3. The solvent was removed under vacuum, and the residue treated with a hot solution of picric acid. This was decanted from a little insoluble material, and slowly cooled to provide the picrate of DMT as yellow needles with a mp of 167 °C. An aqueous suspension of this picrate was made basic with an excess of aqueous NaOH, extracted with Et2O, and the solvent removed under vacuum to provide a pale yellow residue that crystallized. This was pressed on a porous plate and washed with petroleum ether to give N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) as an off-white solid with a mp of 47 °C.

The demethylation of the thiophenolate salt: A suspension of 2.5 g N,N,N-trimethyltryptammonium iodide in 25 mL MeOH was brought into solution by heating, and treated with 1.0 g Ag2O. The mixture was heated for 10 min on the steam bath, the solids removed by filtration and washed with an additional 20 mL MeOH. The methanol solutions were treated with 1.0 g thiophenol and the solvent was removed under vacuum. The resulting viscous oil (2.12 g) was heated with a flame to the reflux point and there was extensive bubbling. After 5 min, the light colored reaction mixture was cooled to room temperature, dissolved in 50 mL CH2Cl2, and extracted with two 25 mL portions of dilute HCl. These were pooled (pale yellow color), made basic with 5% aqueous NaOH and extracted with 3x25 mL CH2Cl2. After removal of the solvent from the pooled extracts, the residue (an amber oil, 1.04 g) was distilled at the KugelRohr. A white oil distilled over at 130-140 °C at 0.1 mm/Hg, and crystallized spontaneously. This distillate weighed 0.77 g, and was recrystallized from boiling hexane after decanting the solution from a small amount of insolubles. There was thus obtained 0.40 g of dimethyltryptamine (DMT) with a mp 67-68 °C. The distillate contained about 3% of 2-Methyl-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-b-carboline (parent peak mass 186, major peak mass 186) as an impurity which was lost upon recrystallization.

(from tryptamine and ethyl formate) A suspension of 1.0 g tryptamine in 50 mL ethyl formate was held at reflux for 15 h during which time the mixture became homogeneous. The volatiles were removed under vacuum, yielding an oily residue of the formamide. This may be purified by distillation but this unpurified product can serve satisfactorily in the following reaction. This residue was dissolved in 50 mL anhydrous THF and added, dropwise, to a solution of 1.0 M LAH in THF (40 mL, 40 mmole) which had been diluted with another 50 mL THF. After the addition was complete the reaction mixture was heated under reflux for 15 hours. Reflux was continued as a solution of 40 mL 1.0 M freshly distilled ethyl formate in THF was added dropwise over the course of 2 h. Heating was discontinued and the reaction mixture was quenched by the addition of excess solid sodium sulfate decahydrate at room temperature. The reaction mixture was filtered and the filtrate was concentrated under vacuum to yield 1.15 g pure N,N-dimethyltryptamine as an oil which solidified upon storage in the freezer. The material can be recrystallized from hexane to give white crystals with a mp 67 °C. 

(from indole) To a well stirred solution of 10 g indole in 150 mL anhydrous Et2O there was added, dropwise over the course of 30 min, a solution of 11 g oxalyl chloride in 150 mL anhydrous Et2O. Stirring was continued for an additional 15 min during which time there was the separation of indol-3-ylglyoxyl chloride as a yellow crystalline solid. This intermediate was removed by filtration and washed with Et2O. It deteriorates at a significant rate at room temperature, and should be used as soon as possible after preparation. The diethylether in this synthesis can be replaced advantageously with t-butylmethylether (TBME) which works well as a solvent in this reaction, but which avoids the potential danger associated with peroxide formation. The above indol-3-ylglyoxyl chloride was added to 20 g anhydrous dimethylamine in 150 mL cold, stirred anhydrous Et2O. When the color had largely been discharged, there was added an excess of 2N HCl, the mixture was cooled, and the resulting solids were removed by filtration. These were recrystallized from EtOAc to give, after air drying, 14.6 g (79%) indol-3-yl N,N-dimethylglyoxylamide with a mp of 159-161 °C.

A solution of 14 g indol-3-yl-N,N-dimethylglyoxylamide in 350 mL anhydrous THF was added, slowly, to 19 g LAH in 350 mL THF which was well stirred and held at reflux temperature under an inert atmosphere. After the addition was complete, reflux was maintained for an additional 16 h, the reaction mixture cooled, and the excess hydride destroyed by the cautious addition of wet dioxane. The formed solids were removed by filtration, washed with hot THF, the filtrate and washings combined, dried over anhydrous MgSO4, and the solvent removed under vacuum. The residue was dissolved in hot petroleum ether. On cooling, crystals of N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) were formed, filtered free of solvent, and air dried, weighing 11.1 g (91%). There have been reports of byproducts from this LAH procedure when performed in Et2O that can compromise the purity of the final product. To obtain the HCl salt of DMT, the residue was dissolved in anhydrous Et2O and saturated with anhydrous hydrogen chloride. The resulting crystals were recrystallized from benzene/methanol to give N,N-dimethyltryptamine hydrochloride with a mp of 165-167 °C. The yield from 14 g of the amide was 13.3 g of the salt.

There are several comments to be made as to salts, melting points, and spectra.

As to salts, this last recipe above, taken from the literature, is the only claim of a valid hydrochloride salt of DMT. In the original synthesis, by Manske, the following description appears. "The hydrochloride could be obtained only as a pale yellow resin which, when dried in a vacuum desiccator over potassium hydroxide, became porous and brittle." I have found no attempts at its synthesis in the literature, and I have personally had no success at all. The picrate salt is well defined, used mostly for isolation and purification. The oxalate is used occasionally in animal studies. Early human studies involving the injection of solutions of the hydrochloride apparently made by dissolving DMT base in dilute aqueous HCl, and neutralizing this with base to achieve an end pH of appropriate 6. The fumarate is the salt specifically approved by the FDA for human studies, and this was the form used for human intravenous injection employed in the recent New Mexico studies.

As to melting points, some in the literature are of plant isolates and other are of synthetic samples. A brief and incomplete survey has revealed the following numbers, all in °C: 44, 44.6-46.8, 46, 47, 48-49, 49-50, 56-57, 57-59, 58-60, 64-67, 67 and 67-68. The 58-60 and 64-67 values are from the Aldrich Chemical Company, for samples bearing the purity claims of "puriss" and 99+% "Gold Label" resp. The Merck Index gives the very early, very low values of 46 °C and 44.6-46.8 °C and claimes that the bp is 60-80 °C with atmospheric pressure being implied. It is clearly in error on both matters. No evidence has been published suggesting polymorphism. The published mp values for the trimethyl quaternary iodide span the range from 188 °C to 233 °C, including in-between values of 197 °C and 216-217 °C. This physical property is of limited value.

As to spectra, the EI-MS of DMT presents no surprises. MS (in m/z): C3H8N+ 58 (100%), indolemethylene+ 130 (10%); parent ion 188 (4%). A remarkably consistent feature has been mentioned earlier. With tertiary amines such as DMT, the 130+ mass ion is usually the second or third most intense in the spectrum. A companion 131+ mass ion is very small. However, when isomers are observed that may have the same atomic composition, but which are secondary amines, there is a prominent 131+ peak, always exceeding the 130+ peak in size. As an example, NET, with the same molecular weight, had the same major amine ion fragment at the mass of 58, but at about a half this height is a 130/131 ion pair with the 131+ being the major one. DMT had a CI-MS (with NH3) with the expected M+1 at mass 189 and a fragment at mass 166.

*DOSAGE* : >350 mg (orally)
60 - 100 mg (intramuscularly)
60 - 100 mg (subcutaneously)
60 - 100 mg (smoking)
4 - 30 mg (intravenously)

*DURATION* : Up to 1h

*QUALITATIVE COMMENTS* : (with 150 mg, orally) "No observable psychic or vegetative effects."

(with 250 mg, orally) "It was inactive."

(with 350 mg, orally) "Completely without effect either physiological or psychological."

(with 100 mg, via the buccal mucosa) "Numbness at the site, but no central effects."

(with 20 mg, intramuscularly) "I began to see patterns on the wall that were continuously moving. They were transparent, and were not colored. After a short period these patterns became the heads of animals, a fox, a snake, a dragon. Then kaleidoscopic images appeared to me in my inner eye, fantastically beautiful and colored."

(with 30 mg, intramuscularly) "There was eye dilation and, subjectively, some perception disturbances."

(with 50 mg, intramuscularly) "I feel strange, everything is blurry. I want my mother, I am afraid of fainting, I can't breathe."

(with 60 mg, intramuscularly) "I don't like this feeling -- I am not myself. I saw such strange dreams a while ago. Strange creatures, dwarfs or something; they were black and moved about. Now I feel as if I am not alive. My left hand is numb. As if my heart would not beat, as if I had no body, no nothing. All I feel are my left hand and stomach. I don't like to be without thoughts."

(with 75 mg, intramuscularly) "The third or fourth minute after the injection vegetative symptoms appeared, such as tingling sensation, trembling, slight nausea, mydriasis, elevation of the blood pressure and increase of the pulse rate. At the same time, eidetic phenomena, optical illusions, pseudohallucinations, and later real hallucinations, appeared. The hallucinations consisted of moving, brilliantly colored oriental motifs, and later I saw wonderful scenes altering very rapidly. The faces of people seemed to be masks. My emotional state was elevated sometimes up to euphoria. At the highest point I had compulsive athetoid movements in my left hand. My consciousness was completely filled by hallucinations, and my attention was firmly bound to them; therefore I could not give an account of the events happening to me. After 3/4 to 1 hour the symptoms disappeared, and I was able to describe what had happened.

(with 80 mg, intramuscularly) "My perceptual distortions were visual in nature and with my eyes closed I could see colored patterns, primarily geometrical patterns moving very fast, having sometimes very deep emotional content and connotation. My blood pressure went up and my pupils were dilated." 

(with 30 mg smoked) "I spread it evenly on a joint of Tanacetum vulgare and melted it with a heat lamp. In about 30 seconds a strong light-headedness starts, with a feeling of temporal pressure. Some yellowing of the visual field. There was nothing for me to do because I had to turn complete control over to the drug. Off the plateau in 3-4 minutes and the fact that the radio was on became apparent. I was out in a few more minutes."

(with 60 mg smoked) "We did it together. Swift entry -- head overwhelmed -- elaborate and exotic. Slightly threatening patterns -- no insight -- slight sense of cruelty and sharpness between us, but enjoying. His face, as before with MDA, demonic but pleasantly so. He said he saw my face as a mask. He asked me to let him see my teeth. I laughed -- aware that laughter slightly not-funny. Heavy, massive intoxication. Time extension extraordinary. What seemed like 2 hrs was about 30 minutes."

(with 60 mg smoked) "Rapid onset, and in a completely stoned isolation in about a minute for about three minutes. Slow return but continued afterglow (pleasant) for thirty minutes. Repeated three times, with no apparent tolerance or change in chronology. Easily handled. The intoxication is of limited usefulness but the residues are completely relaxing,"

(with 100 mg, smoked) "As I exhaled I became terribly afraid, my heart very rapid and strong, palms sweating. A terrible sense of dread and doom filled me -- I knew what was happening, I knew I couldn't stop it, but it was so devastating; I was being destroyed -- all that was familiar, all reference points, all identity -- all viciously shattered in a few seconds. I couldn't even mourn the loss -- there was no one left to do the mourning. Up, up, out, out, eyes closed, I am at the speed of light, expanding, expanding, expanding, faster and faster until I have become so large that I no longer exist -- my speed is so great that everything has come to a stop -- here I gaze upon the entire universe." 

(with 15 mg, intravenously) "An almost instantaneous rush began in the head and I was quickly scattered. Rapidly moving and intensely colored visuals were there, and I got into some complex scenes. There were few sounds, and those that were there were not of anyone talking. I was able to continue to think clearly."

(with 30 mg, intravenously) "I was hit harder that I had ever been when smoking the stuff. The onset was similar, but the euphoria was less."

*EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY* : There is a staggering body of information on the subject of intoxicating snuffs and their use throughout the area of the Caribbean, the Amazon, and on to the west, past the Andes, in Colombia and Peru. The literature that has accumulated over the last forty or so years is fascinating, but extremely difficult to organize. The problem lies in deciding on which discipline shall dictate the hierarchy of classification. Does one organize by snuff name? But each different tribe will have a different name. Does one classify by the plants employed? This requires actual observation in the field, but a given plant may have several native names. And one snuff may use any of several different plants or plant combinations, depending on cultural tradition. To add uncertainty to this complexity, these traditions are being rapidly lost, with the eradication of folklore. So perhaps one should turn to the snuff itself, and classify according to the chemical composition. This is appealing in that there are many museum samples available, as well as a host of anthropological artifacts such as snuff trays and botanical residues that can be identified. But that is a luxury that requires the sophistication of the laboratory, and precludes any botanic assignment. 

No matter which system might eventually prove to be the best, the use of a chemical assignment of drug structure to the active components allows some form of clinical challenge to the native use in the field. DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are the mainstay chemicals in most snuffs, and can be introduced into the product from any of several plants.

A major plant source for one of the best studied of the snuffs, cohoba, are the ground beans of the _Piptadenia peregrina_. There are two alternative generic names, _Anadenanthera_ and _Mimosa_, which may represent the same, or similar, plants, but this is the stuff for battles between botanical taxonomists. There are several species in this classification, and the alkaloid content amongst them is most variable. With _P. peregrina_ and _P. macrocarpa_, the major contents of the beans and their pods appears to be bufotenine, its N-oxide and the oxide of DMT. It may be only the pods of the seeds that contain the DMT. And the bark seems to be the major source of N-methyltryptamine, of 5-MeO-NMT (its 5-methoxy analogue) and of 5-MeO-DMT itself. The species _P. colubrina_ has been reported to have bufotenine in its seeds as the only active component. This plant, in Argentina, occurs in only two major species _P. macrocarpa_ and _P. excelsa_, and the composition seems to parallel that of the Amazonian counterparts. Other forms, (_P. rigida_, _P. paraguayensis_, and _P. varidiflora_), are without any alkaloid content.

The native intoxicant search becomes even cloudier as one goes from snuff to decoction. There are several drinks, sometimes described as "narcotic" and sometimes as hallucinogenic or dream-inducing, that come from closely related plants. The roots of the acacia-like tree, _Mimosa hostilis_, are reputed to be the source of the drink jumera, or vihno de jurema. But the only alkaloid present, originally called nigerine, has proved to be DMT, and this is not orally active. There are pasture grasses, such as reed canarygrass, that can produce a central nervous system disruption in grazing sheep. Chemical analyses of these plants (such as _Phalaris tuberosa_, _P. arundinacea_, and _P. aquatica_ ) have revealed the presence of alkaloids like DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, but these compounds require intravenous administration to duplicate the toxicity symptoms. The observation of 5-MeO-NMT being present does not help explain the toxicity. How can something that is not orally active be orally active? A possible explanation is the presence of another indole with a one-carbon shorter chain. This is gramine, or 3-(N,N-dimethylaminomethyl)indole which is synthesized in the plant with an entirely different set of enzymes. Its human pharmacology is not known. A related homologue, one carbon longer, is the three-carbon chain compound 3-[3-(dimethylamino)propyl]indole, produced by the Upjohn Company. It has been studied clinically under the code name U-6056, at levels of up to 70 milligrams in 10 subjects, by i.m. injection. There were no reports of visual, auditory or tactile disturbances. Physically, there was a slight increase in blood pressure anad pulse rate. Certainly there were no psychological effects.

The drink ayahuasca is also a DMT-containing decoction, but the presence of some harmaline-containing plant is required to make it active by mouth. This area is discussed under harmaline, although there is some information to be found in the 5-MeO-DMT commentary section. And, there are several species of Acacia found in both Africa and Australia that contain DMT, but there is no native medical use that suggests psychotropic action. Most of this is part and parcel of the chapter, "DMT is Everywhere." Let's not repeat it here.

In the early clinical studies of DMT and DET, frequent use was made of schizophrenic patients, in the belief that if these drugs imitate the mental disorder in normal subjects, the use of schizophrenic population might be especially informative, either through some enhanced response or a loss of effect. One clinical study with a group of female patients (with 1.0 or 1.5 mg/Kg DMT being administered, presumably by intramuscular injection) showed a delayed onset (doubling of time), a relative freedom from autonomic effects, and an absence of hallucinations. I truly admire the logic patterns that allow the construction of a research study that will have it either way. Positive effects, our hypothesis is supported. Negative effects, out hypothesis is supported. Do schitzys get better or do they get worse? See? We were right.

A study conducted on 40 normals, this in Hungary some 30 years ago, found that the administration of 40 mg quantities to be symptom free. With several of the experimental subjects in this study, the DMT was preceded by the administration of 1-methyl-d-lysergic acid butanolamide (UML-491), a potent serotonin antagonist. This was given either orally (1-2 mg 30 to 40 minutes before) or intramuscularly (0.5 mg 10 minutes before). This served to greatly intensify the effects of the DMT, with intense and agitated hallucinations, highly intensified colors, and a more extreme loss of time and space perception. It was assumed that UML-491 was inactive, but recent trials indicate that there can be central effects produced. It is discussed in the entry for LSD. 

DMT is the only psychedelic tryptamine that has recently been taken through the Kafkaesque processes for approval for human studies (via the FDA, the DEA, and the other Health agencies of the Government) and is one of the few Schedule I drug that is being looked at clinically in this country today. It has been studied in New Mexico, in Albuquerque. The first published results of this study show a smooth grading of subjective effects as a function of injected dose. The lowest dose (i.v.) was 0.05 mg/Kg, about 4 milligrams, and it could not be distinguished from placebo. At 8 milligrams, there were the physical effects without the mental. At 15 milligrams (the threshold psychedelic dose) nearly all subjects had visual hallucinations, but the auditory changes were rare. At 30 milligrams, the effects were overwhelming both in speed and in intensity. The rush, the freight-train as several subjects call it, was well underway well before the 45 second infusion was complete. A study of repeated administrations of dosages of 16 mg i.v., at half-hour intervals, were made to explore the possible development of tolerance, showed that there was none observed.

Thanks to the existence of ever-increasingly sensitive scientific instruments, the search of body fluids for possible psychedelics has brought forth a number that appear to be natural components of the human animal. DMT has been reported to be in the urine of schizophrenic patients, and so have 5-MeO-DMT, bufotenine, and its demethylated homologue N-methylserotonin. The levels are increased with the administration of monoamineoxidase inhibitors. A methylating enzyme has been found in blood, capable of forming DMT in plasma, and it is present in both normal subjects and schizophrenics. It is not surprising that studies comparing DMT blood levels between patients (psychotic depression, acute and chronic schizophrenia) and normal subjects have shown no differences. 

In the definition of DMT either as an endogenous psychotogen or, equally appealing, as a natural neurotransmitter, it would be desirable to show that the body does not build up tolerance to it (otherwise the psychotic would spontaneously repair, and the brain would spontaneously shut down). To address this, four subjects were given some 50 mg of DMT intramuscularly, twice daily, for 5 days. The blood levels that were achieved, and the picture of autonomic effects (both in mydriasis and in cardiovascular function) were not changed. No tolerance was seen. The psychological conclusions were a little bit less convincing. Several said that the "high" was diminished, but others seemed to feel a maintenance of subjective responses. The jury is still out on this one. 

The principal reason that DMT must be administer parenterally is its rapid and efficient metabolism. It can be oxidized to the N-oxide. It can be cyclized to b-carbolines, both with and without an N-methyl group. It can be N-dealkylated to form NMT and simple tryptamine itself. Best known is its oxidative destruction, by the monoamine oxidase system, to the inactive indoleacetic acid. There is a wild biochemical conversion process known for tryptophan that involves an enzymatic conversion to kynurenine by the removal of the indole-2-carbon. A similar product, N,N-dimethylkynuramine or DMK, has been seen with DMT, when it was added to whole human blood in vitro.

Several simple substitution derivatives of DMT are known. Those that are known to be psychedelic have their own recipes, of course, but the others will be summarized here. The 1-methyl homologue of DMT (1,N,N-trimethyltryptamine) can be prepared from DMT in KOH and DMSO, with CH3I. It forms a picrate salt which melts at 175-179 °C, and bioxalate, mp 174-176 °C. It is more toxic than DMT in rats, but has an identical serotonin binding capacity. The compound with a methoxy group substituent at the 1-position is called Lespedamine, 1-MeO-DMT. With an NO bond, this should be classified as a substituted hydroxylamine. I would love to know if anyone anywhere has ever tried smoking it. I suspect it might very well be active, but it is, to my knowledge, untried. I wonder why it deserves a trivial name, vis., Lespedamine? Two additional ring-substituted derivatives of DMT come from the marine world. 5-Bromo-DMT and 5,6-dibromo-DMT are found in the sponges _Smenospongia auria_ and _S. echina resp_. I have no idea if they are active by smoking (the 5-Br-DMT just might be) but they are quantitatively reduced to DMT by stirring under hydrogen in methanol, in the presence of palladium on charcoal. A very closely related sponge, _Polyfibrospongia maynardii_, contains the very closely related 5,6-dibromotryptamine and the corresponding monomethyl NMT. I had the fantasy of trying to scotch the rumor I'm about to start, that all the hippies of the San Francisco Bay Area were heading to the Caribbean with packets of Zig-Zag papers, to hit the sponge trade with a psychedelic fervor. This is not true. I refuse to take credit for this myth.

The demethylated homologue is N-methyltryptamine (NMT) and it is also widely distributed in nature. It has a synthesis in an entry of its own.

Both the N-hydroxy and the 2-hydroxy analogues of NMT are found in another legume _Desmanthus illinoensis_, but have not been pharmacologically evaluated. Another provocative mono-alkyl analogue of DMT is N-cyclopropyltryptamine, made from indole-3-oxalylchloride and benzyl cyclopropylamine with eventual hydrogenolysis of the benzyl group; mp 180-182. This compound, as with the 5-methoxy and the 7-methoxy counterparts, is a potent monoamineoxidase inhibitor, and it has also been reported to have hypoglycemic activity. The 2-methyl-homologue of NMT was made from 2-methyl-3-(2-bromoethyl)tryptamine and methylamine. This is 2,Me-DMT (or 2,N,N-TMT). Both it and tryptamine itself (T) have their own entries. 

Before this is closed, a couple of points need be made regarding nomenclature. Older literature uses alpha for the 2-position of the indole ring. Thus, alpha-methyltryptamine, in early literature, refers to the indole-2-methyl, not to a side-chain methyl derivative. Throughout TiHKAL, the numbers are devoted to the indole ring, and the alpha and beta terms to the side-chain. And the use of the letter N refers to the side-chain amino nitrogen atom. The pyrrole nitrogen is the indole position 1. 

[HR][/HR]


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## 2cimdma (Feb 26, 2013)

I apologize for the previous two posts they were both quite long. But I'm trying to show certain/most people that the synthesis of these, and most other chemicals, are not easy. They do take skill, knowledge,and the equipment. So to take on one of these or any other chemical can be quite difficult and dangerous. So with that being said good luck.


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## smokeytokeybear (May 23, 2013)

this thread is the shit... much love to you educk


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## smokeytokeybear (May 24, 2013)

mr e duck,
is it possibke to extract lsd from blotter, in the case you had a half a sheet or more
thanks,smokey


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## MrEDuck (May 25, 2013)

You could, but you probably wouldn't get it all and a sheet probably only has 10mg. That's not a lot of material. Why would you want to take your perfectly good blotter and risk fucking it up?


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## smokeytokeybear (May 25, 2013)

dont worry is was just a question, i also have two more for you if
you dont mind, hypetheticaly speaking, if a friend gave me tbis blotter and told me 
that each square is equivelent to 2 hits, what would be a guesstimate range of that
dosage in ug? also could we discuss the synthesis of lsd.. thank you for you time mr educk
smokey


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## VLRD.Kush (May 25, 2013)

smokeytokeybear said:


> dont worry is was just a question, i also have two more for you if
> you dont mind, hypetheticaly speaking, if a friend gave me tbis blotter and told me
> that each square is equivelent to 2 hits, what would be a guesstimate range of that
> dosage in ug? also could we discuss the synthesis of lsd.. thank you for you time mr educk
> smokey


a "normal dose" should be about 60-120ug, but who's to say normal for one guy is the same as another... Based off of purely guessing, I'd say you have some 150-MAYBE 200 ug blotter


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## MrEDuck (May 25, 2013)

Anywhere between 50ug and 250ug. One of the reasons Bear became an acid cook was he wanted to know what he was taking and the dose. I'll try to remember to look for the images I need to discuss the synthesis of lysergic acid.


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## smokeytokeybear (May 25, 2013)

thanks for yhe feedback mr educk, and vlrd kush..
reason being is i have aqquired so very nice tyedye blotter, and im somewhat exp. 
have done it 2 xs. but my girlfriend has only done mushrooms one time at a 4.5 g dose.
and never any lsd, so im trying to decide what she can handle, i on the other hand have done
mushrooms at minimal a 100 times, and at alot higher than 4.5 gs. i will be doing 2 so called double 
hits


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## smokeytokeybear (May 25, 2013)

and thanks again for the future reply od lsd synthesis mr educk.


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## cannabineer (May 25, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> Anywhere between 50ug and 250ug. One of the reasons Bear became an acid cook was he wanted to know what he was taking and the dose. I'll try to remember to look for the images I need to discuss the synthesis of lysergic acid.


iirc the bottleneck is supply of ergot alkaloid. They're watched more closely than the Sultan's 12-year-old daughter. The hardcore way to go is to culture _Claviceps_, extract it and then rectify out the lysergic acid. The rest (condensation) is fairly straightforward (but a nailbiter considering the cost and rarity of the feeedstock) if one has some peptide-style experience ... cn


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## MrEDuck (May 25, 2013)

Ergot alkaloids are a bitch to source. The actual experimental bit of hydrolyzing the ergotamine and then forming the peptide bond is pretty easy, especially with peptide coupling reagents meaning that you don't need stuff like SOCl2 or POCl3 or worse anhydrous hydrazine. The needing to work in near dark is pretty beat though.


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## contraptionated (May 30, 2013)

canndo said:


> Let us talk about rechrystalizing MDMA then, how would one go about such a thing?


7ml/gm of boiling acetonitrile. That's 7 ml of methyl cyanide for each gram of your e. I'm pretty sure the acetonitrile boils around 80 C. Don't ask me how I know this  P.S. let it cool down slow for 2 hours (approximately) then transfer to the fridge. Keep it there for an hour. Then to the freezer for an hour. Filter it with a 4 or 6 cfm yellow jacket vacuum pump over a coffee filter, big ol ceramic course perforated Buchner with the black rubber bung attached to a 1000 ml filter flask and use a good 2 foot length of Tygon vacuum tubing (3/8" I.D.) connected between the side arm of the filter flask and the inlet of the vacuum pump. Once everything is set up the way I described (with the contents of the re crystallization beaker in hand) don't forget that before you turn on the vacuum pump that acetonitrile is flammable (so that means you also need to use a proper magnetic hot plate stirrer to get it boiling in the very first step in the beginning of the process) so you will have to vent the exhaust of your yellow jacket pump into a proper carbon fan/filter combo which exits outdoors. Now make sure you lower a piece of flex duct from the boxed fan/filter combo over the exhaust vent of the vacuum pump and turn on the fan and then the vacuum pump. Now, after you safely decanted and disposed (or put aside for recycling) the excess acetonitrile liquid that was floating on top of the re crystallized e , now you may finally transfer what is mostly mdma and just a little methyl cyanide (that will be sucked through the coffee filter while the e remains in the coffee filter) . Pour the chilled 50 mL aliquot (or two ) over the e if your anal, if not skip this step. Properly shutdown your vacuum pump after the e appears dry (very important to shut it down properly because you could create back flow of fumes even if you put an extra filter flask between the vacuum pump and the Buchner) and leave the coffee filter out to dry for another hour. Got shards??


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## MrEDuck (May 30, 2013)

Acetone or methyl ethyl ketone is probably more available than acetonitrile. Otherwise a great writeup. With acetone or MEK you need about 50mL/g of MDMA.


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## GreenSummit (May 30, 2013)

what about using ergotamine tartrate pills as a source? they sell these OTC in mexico without a prescription. If these pills would work, it wouldnt be hard to source this at all trust me, ive brought loads of it home before because it works great on headaches but they dont sell it in the u.s. go figure.


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## contraptionated (May 30, 2013)

I know I was off topic and I appreciate your input. My way (or I should say Shulgins way) is a bit expensive . From what I remember it was about 250 bucks a gallon and even though its available it sure is a ballsy decision to buy anything with the word "cyanide" in the description. Enough about the e, I haven't done acid or mescaline since I was 16... I'm way way past that age now and I wish I could do some acid again but I would never trust anybody around my neck of the woods if they told me they had it. I looked into the synth and I thought it was the most difficult thing one could ever attempt. E is a cakewalk compared to acid.


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## contraptionated (May 30, 2013)

GreenSummit said:


> what about using ergotamine tartrate pills as a source? they sell these OTC in mexico without a prescription. If these pills would work, it wouldnt be hard to source this at all trust me, ive brought loads of it home before because it works great on headaches but they dont sell it in the u.s. go figure.


I'm looking into it. I never heard anybody mention the possibility of this starting material. Ill come back if I find something.(Rubbing hands together with a shit eating grin)


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## smokeytokeybear (May 30, 2013)

hell yeah man. post results, lol ill be waiting


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## MrEDuck (May 31, 2013)

Ergotamine from Cafergot can be used, but there's only 1mg of ET per pill. You would need a fuckload of them to have enough precursor to get a visible amount of product. Remember getting back 20% of theory is considered an outstanding yield in LSD synth. I think you'd be better off trying a total synthesis like one of these:
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lysergic.acid.woodward.html
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/pdf/lsd.cobalt.pdf
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/lysergic.hendrickson.html

Only hydrogen cyanide and it's salts are poisons. Nitriles (organic cyanides) are no more poisonous than any other random liquid in a chemistry lab. Don't drink it and you'll be fine. KCN is so toxic if someone is poisoned with it you can get poisoned by giving them mouth to mouth!


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## qwizoking (May 31, 2013)

well im finally getting around to it, so instead of making lsd. you could make cdlsa, what do ya think duck? ive made it twice now, immediate, more psychedelic and twice as potent as regular lysergamide without the side effects....oh and if you dont know what it is check my clsa/lsc thread(i cant put links) or google it,not much out there though


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## MrEDuck (May 31, 2013)

I can't asy that I'm familiar with something caled cdlsa, could you give me a name that isn't an abbreviation?


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## qwizoking (May 31, 2013)

yea thats why i suggested my thread.. its cinnamylidene lysergamide or more probable bislysergamide.


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## qwizoking (May 31, 2013)

its a theoretical adduct of cinnamaldahyde and lsa


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## BusyBee123 (Jun 3, 2013)

It seems like a majority of the Sources that came out for honey oil enthusiasts wanting to buy sass/camphor oil were published in the late 90's and early 00's; few if any were updated in any sort of traceable fashion.

That being said, what are good precursors to look in the second decade of this new millenium? I would expect that even the camphor oils raise eyebrows these days, and I'm hesitant to just walk into an aromatherapy store and inquire without getting some second opinions.

I currently work in an inorganic lab that has a disgusting amount of regulated shit on the stock shelves without oversight, I'm sorta itching to put it to good use.


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## 2cimdma (Jun 4, 2013)

Shop for precursors in China. I have successfully bought many regulated chems there. Many companies will write whatever you want them to on the customs declaration form. I have never had a package intercepted by customs here in the US and only one package of psuedo-ephedrine(2.5kg) stopped in China. China customs gave it back to the company which promptly resent it and I received it 5 days later. But I've has many schedule 1 chems sent in from 50g.-5kg. packages.


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## BusyBee123 (Jun 5, 2013)

2cimdma said:


> Many companies will write whatever you want them to on the customs declaration form.


Is this something that would require a bribe, or just append it to the "Additional comments" section? I'm hesitant to order Chinese, because I've seen many Chinese companies that purportedly sell some of the very complex and novel organometallics that my lab designs, and I doubt their honesty. Is it reliable enough for something like pure honey, or should I go ahead and get honey oil and refine it myself?

I actually have a few questions, hopefully Mr. Duck will bestow some wisdom as his comments on Brightstar/Drool's syntheses were what prompted me to do some more digging around.

1. In Strike's Total Synthesis II (1999) she talks about a modified Wacker procedure that skips the well-loved Al/Hg amalgam:



Strike said:


> The method is basically an application of the Wacker oxidation except the the catalyst used is palladium acetate, the solvent is acetic acid or t-Bu alcohol and the oxygen source is the previously suggested hydrogen peroxide.


This method avoids the need for cupric chloride, so it'd be possible to reclaim the unhalogenated solvents, which is attractive. Also, the safrole->ketone reaction rate was on the magnitude of around a hundred grams of starting material per hour. If you have a copy of the text, it's around page 80...Thoughts on this method? If needed I can post the full rxn details.

2. What are the advantages/disadvantages of sodium iodide versus sodium metabisulfite for the purification of MDP-2P? Vogel does mention in his 5th edition that sodium iodide outperforms the bisulfite, but doesn't describe why. Is this just lab/time convenience?

3. In y'all's opinion, is fractional distillation ever really necessary in an MDMA synthesis? It seems like vacuum is just fine if you plan your procedure well, but if it wouldn't hurt...


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## MrEDuck (Jun 5, 2013)

I can't comment on getting precursors as I haven't done that in a long time. 
I haven't had a copy in a long time, could you post it?
I've only ever done a bisulfite wash.
A short column is very nice if you're distilling safrole.


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## BusyBee123 (Jun 5, 2013)

Can do, here you go!

Sit down with some coffee and read through #4 and #5 on her top ten list. I'm going to be doing some more literature searching this afternoon over lunch on these two methods, but I want to get some more opinions. It's been 14 years since TS2 was published, I can't imagine these would have gone unnoticed (though I suppose most people don't have mercuric acetate at their fingertips....ah academia!)


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## BusyBee123 (Jun 6, 2013)

Well, after some more research, I threw out safrole as a precursor. It sucks, but it's well-regulated and I don't want to be breaking the law with my purchases 

I am however very intrigued by the safrole total synthesis from salicylaldehyde. Most of this route is peroxide chemistry but near the bromination of 1,3-benzodioxole to 1,2-methylenedioxy-4-bromobenzene (see Strike's TSII, page 222-230). 

This is really the only step I had nightmares about (the grignard addition of the carbon side chain to the benzyl frame isn't bad, dryness is no stranger to me) is this bromination, but in the best way possible. Two high-yield bromination routes are given"



> *Method #2: *To make dibromodioxane one stirs 500g dioxane in a flask which is in an ice bath, all of which is in the hood. 990g liquid Br2 is rapidly added, causing the solution to get hot. The solution is dumped into a bucket containing 2L of ice water, causing the immediate formation of a large mass of orange dibromodioxane crystals which are separated by vacuum filtration and dried. In an ice bath a flask containing 100g 1,3-benzodioxole or catechol or guaiacol and 200m: ether is stirred and then 200g dibromodioxane is slowly added so that the heat and reaction won't get out of control. After stirring for 1 hour the solution is poured into some water and the ether layer is separated. The aqueous layer is extracted once with some more ether and the two ether fractions combined, dried through sodium sulfate, and distilled to give bromo-benzodioxole (90%).


This method employs the bromine delivering group of either a brominated dioxane or succinamide, which I know would help avoid re-brominations (though I would imagine keeping the solution cool avoids this?) but I'm trying to figure out why any poor fool would do it when they had just read the first synthesis in that section:



> *Method #1:*143g 1,3 benzodioxole in 600mL chloroform is stirred in a flask and Br2 from a little tank is slowly bubbled through the solution over a period of 4 hours at room temperature. Ideally one wants to introduce about 190g of bromine into the flask so the chemist may wish to stop the bubbling and check the weight gain of the flask periodically. after 4 hours the solution is vacuum distilled from the flask. The first thing to come over is the chloroform, then a small amount of higher boiling, unreacted benzodioxole, and at about 30-40C higher should come the mother lode of yellowish bromobenzodioxole oil (yield=91%). Using acetic acid and liquid bromine, yields of up to 90% are described.


Unless I'm missing something, why would a chemist want to use a recyclable bromine donor, when yields are comparable and you save time not using one? What's not being said here?


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## MrEDuck (Jun 6, 2013)

Allyl catechol thermally rearranges to make 3,4 dihydroxyallylbenzene. Allyl bromide and catechol are about as basic of building blocks as you can get.


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## BusyBee123 (Jun 6, 2013)

Hence the Grignard addition to avoid the rearrangement. But what about the bromination? What's the difference?


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## MrEDuck (Jun 6, 2013)

The thermal rearrangement is easier than brominating catechol and then hitting it with a gringard. The difference is one is direct and doesn't require the use of a tempermental organometallic.


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## BusyBee123 (Jun 7, 2013)

Had to think about what you were saying for a while before I realized...I'm thinking that deprotonating the allylcatechol with a strong ionic base and then bridging the oxygens with DCM under anhydrous conditions would be swell. If i had my main computer I'd run some DFT calculations on the structure, but that'll be a few weeks yet.


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## 2cimdma (Jun 7, 2013)

I have never been ripped off when ordering from China. But of course it does happen a lot. It comes down to doing your due diligence and investigate the company as much as possible. Use Whois, google, and whatever else you can gather info from. Look to see if the company your buying from is going to be in any trade shows such as CPhI, etc. Do a reverse phone search and reverse address search on them. When I was trying to find a company to synthesize Bromadol HCl for me a couple years ago I was having hell of a time. So I ended up looking up translators over there who offer translation service for business meetings and such. I contacted a woman and she agreed to call companies/lab's there in China. She ended up finding a lab to custom make it for us within 3 days(I had been working months to find such a lab). All she charged me was $100 which I sent via paypal. When it comes to customs forms most companies will write what you tell them to write and they will do it for free. If you use a B2B site like Alibaba or lookchem, etc. you can do the instant messaging and talk to the supplier and get answers quickly. Just tell them what your looking for and ask if they will write something different on the form.


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## MrEDuck (Jun 8, 2013)

BusyBee123 said:


> Had to think about what you were saying for a while before I realized...I'm thinking that deprotonating the allylcatechol with a strong ionic base and then bridging the oxygens with DCM under anhydrous conditions would be swell. If i had my main computer I'd run some DFT calculations on the structure, but that'll be a few weeks yet.


DFT got too math intensive for me, damned neat stuff though. 
DCM would be my last choice for a methylene source because Cl is a crappy leaving group. A phase transfer catalyst is a very good idea. There's some stuff in the rhodium archive.


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## BusyBee123 (Jun 8, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> DFT got too math intensive for me, damned neat stuff though.


If you grab this (can't speak for the quality of the torrent) you can do the DFT calculations for molecules this size on an average laptop in a few hours. It spits out a really pretty 3D graph for your HOMO/LUMO and you don't have to touch an integral table. 

China still sketches me out (that damn rare metal monopoly they have leaves a bad taste in my mouth), at least for something as explicit as sass oil/brown camphor shipped in bulk to a U.S. address. But would large quantities of parsley or cinnamon oils be cheaper than in the U.S. as well?


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## budbro18 (Jul 4, 2013)

Has anyone asked about a Ketamine synth? Ive looked them up and they seem fairly easy and straight forward i just cant find a working synth that people stand behind.

Like everything on the internet people denounce it and others say it works. let me know if youd be interested in bringing this up for a topic of discussion. 

PM me if necessary


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## Azide Intermediate (Aug 23, 2013)

Hi. New. Just some semi layman comments on ergot derivatives of fame. Is POCl3 that hard to source? Only going from Shulgins most straight forward synth in Thkl. Assuming you have ET. Per his words Pocl3 and dimethylamine is clean , fast and low side reactions. The peptide couplers seem to be dated back to the azide and TriSulpr. Not to say the reaction isnt workable. Just you need so little. ET no, but 2 magic ingredients and hours instead of days in kenny roasters red glare, if pride matters column chromo add tatar sauce and and recrystalize. It potent. Makes the roundabout cultivation ideas in realm of possibility. Get an internship at a chem minded employer and pipet what you need of the 2 other reagents. 

Again all due respect to the in the know on modern peptide chem.


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## Azide Intermediate (Aug 23, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> DFT got too math intensive for me, damned neat stuff though.
> DCM would be my last choice for a methylene source because Cl is a crappy leaving group. A phase transfer catalyst is a very good idea. There's some stuff in the rhodium archive.


I have a pressing question on DCM. I am not a layman but could you explain the Cl as a crappy leaving group. Very reactive but in using DCM in a peroxy acid route to the glycol and ketone. What side products or nasties are we talking. Besides the straight iso oxone red amination approach similar I guess. So iso into peroxy acetic and workuo using DCM solvent... ? I appreciate your feedback.


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## Azide Intermediate (Aug 23, 2013)

VLRD.Kush said:


> What did these clowns cut my Molly with that makes it taste and smell like saw dust??
> 
> I wouldn't have even bought it if I didn't already tell my friend I'd go in half with him. I took one look at it and knew it was stomped on hard...


Molly i assume powder. Who the hell knows how they smuggles that in or in what. Dissolved in what. Hay and cut grass are and damned i cannot recall but ,Phosgene ??i know has that smell (ppb prob) So cleanup? Or it was packed with Chinese newspapers and apple cores. White crystals? Go on DanceSafe and see the cut these evil bastards use on a good day. Clean up ,thats time and money. Pills. Maybe god damed wood pulp as a binder since tab presses are rare. Hand mold like dumpling


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## MrEDuck (Aug 23, 2013)

Azide Intermediate said:


> Hi. New. Just some semi layman comments on ergot derivatives of fame. Is POCl3 that hard to source? Only going from Shulgins most straight forward synth in Thkl. Assuming you have ET. Per his words Pocl3 and dimethylamine is clean , fast and low side reactions. The peptide couplers seem to be dated back to the azide and TriSulpr. Not to say the reaction isnt workable. Just you need so little. ET no, but 2 magic ingredients and hours instead of days in kenny roasters red glare, if pride matters column chromo add tatar sauce and and recrystalize. It potent. Makes the roundabout cultivation ideas in realm of possibility. Get an internship at a chem minded employer and pipet what you need of the 2 other reagents.
> 
> Again all due respect to the in the know on modern peptide chem.


POCl3 is some fairly nasty stuff that I will use but would prefer not to work with. Peptide couplers are things like PyBOP that are used extensively in making peptide bonds for synthetic proteins and such. Look up the Merrifield Synthesis to see where it began. Here's some stuff from Hardison http://bitnest.ca/Rhodium/chemistry/lsd.pybop.hardison.html



Azide Intermediate said:


> I have a pressing question on DCM. I am not a layman but could you explain the Cl as a crappy leaving group. Very reactive but in using DCM in a peroxy acid route to the glycol and ketone. What side products or nasties are we talking. Besides the straight iso oxone red amination approach similar I guess. So iso into peroxy acetic and workuo using DCM solvent... ? I appreciate your feedback.


I'm assuming this is related to the synthesis of safrole from allylcatechol? Making the MD ring from the diphenol is an S[SUB]N[/SUB]2 reaction, halides become better leaving groups as you go down the periodic table. DCM is a reagent as well as a solvent here. You need to make the phenols into better nucleophiles by deprotonating them and you need a PTC to let the phenoxide anion get to the DCM.


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## Azide Intermediate (Aug 23, 2013)

Jp2cbxxxQC said:


> From Québec, Canada ..probably youll be able to coopérate with me in learning and legal statuses advantages I got within 2-c family non forbid in my province and so for pseudoe, e, etafedrine, ethylephrine ect.. and spot easy cooks! Ive managed to synthesize some good stuff wtih allegra-d that is fexofenadine+120 mg pseudoe that Ive growed into a solution with H2o and filtered knowing that fexo isnt water dissolvable just there the pure pseudo after a good heet quench was so cute I would cry then Im tryin with a lithium strip and NaOH attacks..that seem right with a bronze allure to my lithium and all reactions done Ive tried filtering , acétone cleaning and there im stuck at the Hcl gizmo thing.....I use hcl 20% with Salt (Big salt NaCl only) to create something like ammonia I guess do I have to solubilze my e in water in first case and than with a gas gizmo introduce this in the solution? correct me I you like anybody Its for a cooperation Ive got nice hints to give ! Could you give me one here
> JP!!


Hcl and salt. Non iodized. Is your gas generator. Should convert your base into something for snort or shoot. Is this this quick brew method? You playing with anhydrous ammonia? If i got the processes mixed forgive. You got to tack an ammonia on there somehow you are right.


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## Azide Intermediate (Aug 23, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> POCl3 is some fairly nasty stuff that I will use but would prefer not to work with. Peptide couplers are things like PyBOP that are used extensively in making peptide bonds for synthetic proteins and such. Look up the Merrifield Synthesis to see where it began. Here's some stuff from Hardison http://bitnest.ca/Rhodium/chemistry/lsd.pybop.hardison.html
> 
> 
> I'm assuming this is related to the synthesis of safrole from allylcatechol? Making the MD ring from the diphenol is an S[SUB]N[/SUB]2 reaction, halides become better leaving groups as you go down the periodic table. DCM is a reagent as well as a solvent here. You need to make the phenols into better nucleophiles by deprotonating them and you need a PTC to let the phenoxide anion get to the DCM.


First my apologies. Nice thread. Yes I was just reading back a few pages and my comment does not dovetail with your thermal rearrange
. As you can decipher from my scratch, this pertained to iso as an option. While I am very glad you reviewed Dr Drool, and while it gave me a framework, times change. What I would really love is opinion on use of Oxone. Strong pool balancer but a peracid used in commercial chem in a pinch. The writeup is sloppy but seemingly sound. Plug into al/hg with insitu me.hcl and your there.


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## Azide Intermediate (Aug 23, 2013)

MrEDuck said:


> POCl3 is some fairly nasty stuff that I will use but would prefer not to work with. Peptide couplers are things like PyBOP that are used extensively in making peptide bonds for synthetic proteins and such. Look up the Merrifield Synthesis to see where it began. Here's some stuff from Hardison http://bitnest.ca/Rhodium/chemistry/lsd.pybop.hardison.html


Man I got into that Ref using subs for the diethylamine using coupling reagents. I bumped into peptide chem in some LSA to LSD ref but no peer review. Its some heavy chemistry no doubt for study purposes. What would the human bioassay do with it? Its looks like lsd and binds magically by conformation. But does it have the sparkle? Yes thats a high end example. But being in non acedemia or its resources. Id strap on the gloves and hit the fume hood ala pocl3. Guess its the materials on hand and scarcity of ET. Anyway you know your shat. Cool to converse. Amazing that kicking in the door on such a fragile molecule worked or works.


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## MrEDuck (Aug 23, 2013)

Nichols first used it to synthesize a lot of LSD analogs to try to determine the active configuration of the LSD molecule when bound to the receptor. The question wasn't if the method works or not, but if it could be used at scale. Based on what Freeblood got busted with I'd say it works quite well at scale.
LSD is LSD regardless of the synthetic pathway. If what Bear believed is true then the state of mind of the chemist during synthesis matters far more than the synthetic route employed.
We're discussing different things the mention of dihalomethane was for making the MD bridge to make safrole not to do some oxidation. Times may change but the Wacker oxidation is a simple reaction that uses easily obtained chemicals. Yes you can do it with peracid but it's a method I'm not experienced with.


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## eastcoastmo (Nov 12, 2013)

Hey Mr Duck, sorry for bringing up an old thread but i was wondering how i woulf go about extracting safrole oil out of camphor laurel as its a ferocious weed here in oz that contains high contents of safrole. And how much safrole oil would i need as a precursor to make say 300g of molly? Im in no way going to try and make molly but have a mate that is well equipped and knowledgeable on how to do it correctly...

Great thread by the way mate, ive only studied enviro chem and base organic chem at uni so only have a base knowledge of it but this thread is unreal for info! Cheers for starting it hey


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## Mad Hamish (Mar 3, 2014)

budbro18 said:


> Has anyone asked about a Ketamine synth? Ive looked them up and they seem fairly easy and straight forward i just cant find a working synth that people stand behind.
> 
> Like everything on the internet people denounce it and others say it works. let me know if youd be interested in bringing this up for a topic of discussion.
> 
> PM me if necessary


Most people frown on donkey dust, I don't know why. Damn cheap to get medical grade K500 from India.


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## MEANGREEN69 (Mar 8, 2014)

subbed, thanks for making this tread MrEDuck.


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## MrEDuck (Mar 8, 2014)

Well you're in a bit late. If people have topics they would liek to see discussed I'm open to reviving it but I hate writing without some kind of prompt. I tend to end up going all over the place and not being very coherent.


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## schuylaar (Dec 14, 2014)

MrEDuck said:


> Hey everyone!
> I've been wanting to make a thread like this for awhile but I didn't have time or decent home internet access. Now that things are calming down from moving I have those things.
> I want this thread to cover any topic in chemistry that people want to learn about, from drug synthesis to why the structure of the HOMO requires a backside addition in an Sn2 reaction, or even quantum mechanics. I'm on a train using my phone right now so I can't post pics and start talking synths. Give me 24 hours and we'll get started with the synth of PEAs and amphetamines via a Knoevengal condensation.
> Anything in open literature is fair game. If anyone has any chem questions please feel free to ask even if it's not related to the current topic. Also suggestions for discussion topics are most welcome.


ahhhhhhhh, chemistry!

i've posted this question in political to which no one (not even in medical field) can answer.

i, of course know the answer..time to exercise your brain..no googling! promise?

question:

what one narcotic is sold OTC in america every state?

good luck!


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## MrEDuck (Dec 14, 2014)

Loperamide is an opioid that doesn't cross the blood brain barrier very well.


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## schuylaar (Dec 14, 2014)

ndangerspecimen101 said:


> Where the hell is MrEDuck. I thought he was lecturing today!


what every adjunct professor thinks when you walk in and have 'that" attitude


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## schuylaar (Dec 14, 2014)

MrEDuck said:


> Loperamide is an opioid that doesn't cross the blood brain barrier very well.


dammit!

you're tooo goooood!

ding! ding! ding!



now i know everyone is not braindead here..


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## schuylaar (Dec 14, 2014)

MrEDuck said:


> Loperamide is an opioid that doesn't cross the blood brain barrier very well.


did you ever think about what the result would be intravenously?


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## Skuxx (Dec 14, 2014)

Nice, I remember reading this thread... and the "guess the molecule" one. Foreign languages to me but good to read


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## schuylaar (Dec 14, 2014)

Skuxx said:


> Nice, I remember reading this thread... and the "guess the molecule" one. Foreign languages to me but good to read


my question involved the "one" missing molecule.

loperamide is an opioid less one molecule that allows it to cross the blood-brain barrier.

so it only works in your colon: immodium


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## Skuxx (Dec 14, 2014)

schuylaar said:


> my question involved the "one" missing molecule.
> 
> loperamide is an opioid less one molecule that allows it to cross the blood-brain barrier.
> 
> so it only works in your colon: immodium


no I mean there was a thread with molecular pictures etc and the game was to guess what substance it was


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## schuylaar (Dec 14, 2014)

Skuxx said:


> Nice, I remember reading this thread... and the "guess the molecule" one. Foreign languages to me but good to read


actually, i have to take a chemistry soon prolly fall semester 2015.

this thread will be of great assistance for me..all the chemistry guys in one place!


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## MrEDuck (Dec 14, 2014)

IV loperamide still runs into the same issue. If you want to get it into the brain you need to encapsulate it somehow or inhibit p-glycoprotein to allow it to cross. Or take MASSIVE doses of it. 
I must say it's a brilliant piece of medicinal chemistry from arguably the greatest medicinal chemist ever. He eliminated what is generally perceived as the main function of a drug and used what was considered an undesirable side effect as a life saving therapy. I know most of us don't see it that way but it is a vital drug in the developing world. And still something to be grateful for when you need it in the first world


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## Mad Hamish (Dec 16, 2014)

schuylaar said:


> actually, i have to take a chemistry soon prolly fall semester 2015.
> 
> this thread will be of great assistance for me..all the chemistry guys in one place!


Did you recycle Pinworms face onto a kitten?!?! Lmfao, he must love that


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## MrEDuck (Dec 16, 2014)

I miss parasite. I hope he's well.


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## Mad Hamish (Dec 16, 2014)

Same here man, what a legend.


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## Paul Macdonald (Mar 11, 2015)

Opioid's like canabinols come in a wide variety. In the Poppy 
their is so much to learn and discover . theirs probably a compound that can be made for pain that is not psychically addicting
they just don't want it out there for money making purposes .

I find the whole thing just amazingly fascinating and want to learn as much as I can . Thank you so much for this thread . and anyone that can suggest
more resources about organic synthesis please PM me


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## schuylaar (Mar 11, 2015)

Mad Hamish said:


> Did you recycle Pinworms face onto a kitten?!?! Lmfao, he must love that


yes and i know this post is late..so i have my "pinny angel" that @heckler73 took the time to make for me as it was not just a quick photoshop.

thanks again, heckler!


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## MrEDuck (Mar 11, 2015)

Paul Macdonald said:


> Opioid's like canabinols come in a wide variety. In the Poppy
> their is so much to learn and discover . theirs probably a compound that can be made for pain that is not psychically addicting
> they just don't want it out there for money making purposes .
> 
> ...


I really doubt there is a true painkiller that doesn't have addiction issues. The nature of how opioid work is once the pain is gone they feel good. A pain reliever as effective as morphine without the addiction issue is considered a holy grail of medicinal chemistry.


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## schuylaar (Mar 12, 2015)

MrEDuck said:


> I really doubt there is a true painkiller that doesn't have addiction issues. The nature of how opioid work is once the pain is gone they feel good. A pain reliever as effective as morphine without the addiction issue is considered a holy grail of medicinal chemistry.


i've never done dabs..i know they do here (florida) because i see in smoke shop they have the stuff for sale..but truly a cali thing.

how are dabs at pain relieving?

flower tends to make a throbbing pain worse (toothache) though relaxing enough to handle regular aches and pain from exercise imho.

i know this may sound gross but if you take the medicinal properties and introduce in a glycerine the lower bowel has the best absorption.

has anyone experimented with this?


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## Pinworm (Mar 13, 2015)

MrEDuck said:


> I miss parasite. I hope he's well.


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## greenghost420 (Mar 13, 2015)

i want to try that poppy straw tea. sounds relaxing!


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## MrEDuck (Mar 13, 2015)

schuylaar said:


> i've never done dabs..i know they do here (florida) because i see in smoke shop they have the stuff for sale..but truly a cali thing.
> 
> how are dabs at pain relieving?
> 
> ...


I wouldn't use glycerin if you want it to absorb. Glycerin is a hyperosmotic laxitive. I find pain relief is variable depending n the type of pain and teh strain. I find oral THCA is awesome for inflammation based pain.



Pinworm said:


>


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## Bigtacofarmer (Mar 13, 2015)

I have alcohol tinctures, coconut butter, glycerin tinctures. They all have there place. A little of the alcohol rubbed on my temples will cure a headache fast. A mix of the coco butter and glycerin makes an awesome warming topical. Also, my wife had a wart that kept coming back. I had her cover it in BHO for about a month and its been gone for about 6 months. Favorite strains for pain? g13 works awesome, but will knock you out. Longs peak blue works great and if you don't overdue it will leave you capable of doing more that drooling. I have a number of other strains in coconut butter but I usually consider them more recreational.


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## MrEDuck (Mar 13, 2015)

Different tinctures all have their place, but glycerin's is not in the rectum


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## [email protected] (Mar 13, 2015)

Hey I got this recipe I just made using everclear as the oral drops and imo there alright potency wise but should I still tast the clear or should I have cooked it longer?


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## MrEDuck (Mar 13, 2015)

If all the alcohol is gone it's just hash oil. It's still going to taste like alcohol no matter what.


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