# Advanced Growing Techniques? Really?



## GreenphoeniX (Jul 30, 2008)

Just out of curiosity, when did LST, Topping and cloning become advanced growing techniques???

In my opinion these are the _very basics_ of growing, they're nowhere near advanced techniques.

Who else considers these _basic_ techniques, and who can tell me what they consider an _advanced_ technique?

Cheers.


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## JJgrands (Jul 30, 2008)

heres an advanced grow technique id like to try and ask if anyone has any experience with. I want to double switch ballasts on 12/12 cycles to two seperate chambers. IE: 2 lights in one chamber run off the ballast in the morning, and 2 lights in another chamber run during the night. Thus 2 ballasts can bud 4 lights worth. The key is a switching device i have yet to locate. Any suggestions/ comments? I even saw this before several places... so the idea is sound.. utilize ballasts 2x!


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## GreenphoeniX (Jul 30, 2008)

See now _that_ would be useful! ... I wonder if you could just hook up some sort of double adapter and have them on separate timers so only one runs at a time (per ballast) ... Hmm sounds like it could start a fire hahaha. Can you get double adapters with the right kind of plug? Or is that the sort of switching device you have not yet located? I've not seen them about ... I'm not a fan of wiring my own ballasts or using bare exposed ballasts, but that could be something to look into?


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## CaNNaBiZNeSS (Jul 31, 2008)

i agree, lst fimming tying and topping are a joke, yet very effective, i guess they can be considered advanced if you go crazy enough with them? oh well who cares who labels what what, its cool but i agree its the very basics of botany , fuck with a plant and it will heal itself to fix your fucking with, in lamest terms


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## Dutch1976 (Jul 31, 2008)

If you're a newb (ya know, the people this site is made for) then topping, LST and cloning are advanced ideas.


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## Silky Shagsalot (Jul 31, 2008)

JJgrands said:


> heres an advanced grow technique id like to try and ask if anyone has any experience with. I want to double switch ballasts on 12/12 cycles to two seperate chambers. IE: 2 lights in one chamber run off the ballast in the morning, and 2 lights in another chamber run during the night. Thus 2 ballasts can bud 4 lights worth. The key is a switching device i have yet to locate. Any suggestions/ comments? I even saw this before several places... so the idea is sound.. utilize ballasts 2x!


these are called flips. some call them flip flops, whatever. they are very useful when running multiple rooms/ballasts.


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## GreenphoeniX (Jul 31, 2008)

Oh yea, I've heard of flip flops... Never seen them at the grow shop by me tho 



> If you're a newb (ya know, the people this site is made for) then topping, LST and cloning are advanced ideas.


This site isn't made _just_ for newbs ... It's made fore _everyone_ to share their ideas, wisdom and grows. If there were no experienced growers here, all the newbs wouldn't learn shit, and I have seen a lot of newbs sharing bad advice with other newbs, a downward spiral if you ask me.
Even when I very first started with growing (and horticulture) I never ever considered topping or cloning (taking cuttings) and advanced technique by any stretch of the imagination ... LST and pruning _could_ be classed as a moderately difficult technique if you get into it enough and go a bit crazy. But they're _not_ _*advanced*_ _techniques_, maybe if you combine 2-3, even 4 methods of beginner or moderate techniques, you could consider it advanced, but if you go read a book on plant botany you'll see how complex it can really be, should you want it to be, it comes with experience too.


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## speedhabit (Jul 31, 2008)

All the people Iv seen severely fuck up their plants by LSTing and chopping the bits off the poor things...Your into advanced growing the second you start doing something else then watering and fertilizing.

Edit: And please tell me, what is an advanced technique for growing mentioned in a botany group but not general practice among weed growers?


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## GreenphoeniX (Jul 31, 2008)

Well, probably the most common advanced growing technique that's not general practice amongst weed growers, would have to be the '_Autumn Colour Effect_' or the '_ACE_' technique, as I like to call it. This is where the Nitrogen is cut off from a flowering plant in mid to late flowering (depending on phenotype) so that the plant extracts all the remaining Nitrogen from it's leaves and puts it into the bud, this hugely reduces chlorophyll level in the plants leaves and buds by the time the plant is finished [which aids with good tasting, good burning weed] (cannabis, being an annual, does not require Nitrogen for the final leg of flowering, having to take it up, process it and motabilize it, hinders it's ability to put all its strength into the flowering process.
To use the Autumn Colour Effect (ACE) to its full potential, you have to really know the pheno you're growing (having grown clones of it multiple times) so you know how long it takes to finish, what it likes/dislikes, what it can or can't handle etc.
This is a common technique amongst _elite_ growers (not the elite on this site that pay for that status, the true elite, like those who showed me it - and I was sus at first but they proved its benefits too me with out too much difficulty ... Mind you a 10,000 Watt grow is _very_ impressive to any grower when they're reasonably new to the scene.

Too do the ACE technique properly you have to grow Soiless or Hydro, or any other system where you have control over which nutrients the plants do or don't receive at which time during the grow.

3 weeks away from harvest (previous grow):


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## speedhabit (Aug 1, 2008)

I let my plants yellow out during flower, I grant you a ton of difference between a gradual depletion and a complete cut off, but the picture reminds me of some of my buds, heres a cola. 







Im just stoned and saying its all relative. Would the results of the plants gradually eating all the nitro in the soil approximate in any way the effect you described? These are like 4 weeks pure water in fox farm 5 gal buckets.


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## GreenphoeniX (Aug 1, 2008)

That's called flushing, and it is a similar effect, if you flush properly and long enough they'll turn completely yellow, flushing gets rid of all other nutrients too, were as removing N from your feeding schedule, you can keep pumping them with P, K and trace elements, especially if you use organic ferts (because you don't need to flush with organics, you can feed right up till the end of flowering [minus the N] - although the subject of flushing is subject to much debate, I am on the side of believing you only need to flush chemical ferts).

Some more ACE:





_compliments Ty-Styk_
The effects of flushing:


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## Woomeister (Aug 1, 2008)

GreenphoeniX said:


> Just out of curiosity, when did LST, Topping and cloning become advanced growing techniques???
> 
> In my opinion these are the _very basics_ of growing, they're nowhere near advanced techniques.
> 
> ...


Any technique is basic to an experienced grower, an advanced technique is any thing you have never done and is relatively difficult to 'master'...stress 'master' not just do! Grafting for breeding is quite an advanced technique if you have never done it.


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## GreenphoeniX (Aug 1, 2008)

If you read later posts I did day that even when I very first started growing, I still didn't consider these things advanced techniques.

The mastering thing is definitely a good point!

And grafting for breeding is a good example of an advanced technique... Lets not get into an argument about the pros and cons of that hahaha.

Cheers for you input mate.


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## CustomHydro (Aug 1, 2008)

Whoa GreenPheon! Didn't know the ACE technique was concidered an Advanced Technique. All it is is depleting Nitrogen. WHOA! Advanced, Advanced, Advanced!!! What to do! Don't go talking down on people about LST and then come at us with this B.S. This technique isn't even a technique, everyone does it, some later than others, but we all do it! I learned to do that before I ever even heard of LST. It's not rocket science like u make it out to be. The earlier you do it the smoke will be smoother and burn better, but you lose out on protiens that help add to bud weight, so give up something to get something.


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## GreenphoeniX (Aug 1, 2008)

I think you're talking about standard _flushing_ CustomHydro.
As I have said, it's _different_.

Let's see you do this technique on your first run with a plant, get it timed perfectly, you can't because you have to _know the pheno (phenotype)_ you're working with to do it! If you time it well, you don't lose the proteins the plant needs to add weight, because it uses them from it's leaves, and _if you time it right_ when it runs out of proteins, it should be bang on time to harvest anyway.

Any strain/pheno can be _trained_ at pretty much _any time_ during its life, whether you know the strain/pheno or not, same with topping. It doesn't require any skill or knowledge of the pheno to do it, you just have to have the skill to use some scissors or a knife to top and add some string in for LST, which in my book doesn't make it an advanced skill or technique. (I do use both techniques myself, and all are useful and have their place).

If ACE or even just _flushing_ is so common around here, why are 90% of the plants I see still green at harvest? Plants should _not_ be green at harvest, they may be light limy green at harvest if its your first run with that pheno and you haven't got it dialed in yet, but they shouldn't be solid green.

_**As the two pictures at the top of this page show, there's quite a difference between the effects of poorly timed flushing and ACE, which is a form of flushing really, but more 'advanced' than standard flushing*_
And if it's an 'advanced' form of flushing, then doesn't that make it an advanced technique? ... If not we can lump it into the 'know your pheno well, mid-skill technique'

So to you ACE is not an advanced technique, that's fine by me, do _you_ consider LST, topping and cloning _advanced techniques?_ If not, please tell us what is an advanced technique to you?
Cause this thread is all about learning what the advanced techniques are and aren't really. It's always interesting, always argued, but most importantly, there's always something to _learn_!

Know one has to agree with me hahaha, that's their loss, but if your plants are green at harvest, then you've nowhere near seen their full potential. A tiny little lesson for all.

Come on guys and girls, post your pics of your plants at harvest time ... I want to see some Autumn Colours baby!


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## GreenphoeniX (Aug 18, 2008)

Some more nice Autumn Colours for all:


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## Trashed (Aug 19, 2008)

You can always learn something from someone else. Know one old guy south of here that throws a handful of triple 13 out once a week and a gallon of water every two days. To him advanced would be changing the nutes up at flower. To me, it would be just about anything that I haven't done, which is a long list indeed.


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## GreenphoeniX (Aug 19, 2008)

Ah, I like the way you put that Trashed. Nice.


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## roseypanties (Aug 21, 2008)

Is this the special olympics here? no matter who wins, your still retarted? 
Ok, so I have a quesiton. when you "Flush" your Hydro System, would you EVER want to use a CarbLoad in the Ph'd 6.0 Water? Wondering if this would help the buds absorb more nutes and burn off the chemicals. Thanks guys


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## bubbaspark86 (Jan 24, 2010)

What about plant tissue culture,
Get rid of your mothers, open more space to flower.
http://www.apsnet.org/Education/K-12PlantPathways/TeachersGuide/Activities/PlantBiotechnology/pdfs/Activity5.pdf


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## SeriousSmoker (Jan 24, 2010)

k i like this thread.
I agree lst topping all that bullshit is amateur stuff i want to hear real ADVANCED growing techniques.

about plant tissue cultures -> ive heard of it and want to hear more and would like some evidence, anyone seen it done and have it work well for you? etc.

Now for the ACE technique i like it but does it affect yield? some prominent growers on this forum (ie uncle ben) say some crazy shit (in my mind) like flushing is a myth and leaves should be green throughout harvest and nitrogen should not be removed. Personally i dont believe it ive always had great yields with good flushing and yellow/purple/red/orange leaves at harvest.. but if hes such a good grower he must be on to something? 

your thoughts please, and more advanced techniques! thanks


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## AquafinaOrbit (Jan 25, 2010)

I agree, and think of that every time I come here and am reminded its just avg growing teks. Stuff like electrostimulating the roots I would consider Advanced, but I don't know if there is enough of those new ideas to support an entire section.


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## bubbaspark86 (Jan 25, 2010)

Plant tissue culture
It Works great, takes up little space, little light needed, no exhaust needed.
Works well with many different types of plants including cannabis.
opens more room for flowering, Plant Tissue Culture Kits Available online.
Worth the money spent---
http://www.kitchenculturekit.com/index.htm
http://www.led-grow-master.com/PlantTissue.html


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