# Monosilicic Acid



## Jakkar (Jan 13, 2020)

Does anyone have any feedback on ‘Stout MSA’ by Alchemist? I’ve been looking into trying monosilicic acid products such as power si, or vitilize by Mills. The issue is they are all quite pricey for tiny bottles. Then I came across Stout MSA which is much cheaper (concentration levels are much lower). Was wondering how it stacks up to the other, much more expensive products.
I’m also looking for feedback in general on all the other products as well or any alternatives.


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## calvin.m16 (Nov 1, 2020)

Alchemist is a fantastic brand in my opinion. As for silica I never really used it after experimenting with Armor Si and not noticing much difference even when using it through veg & flower.. 

I use the Alchemist brand 99.99% Alcohol, Alchemist 35% Technical Grade H2o2 and Stout MSA. 

I've been adding Stout MSA to my 5 gallon buckets of RO water @ 5ml/gal (25 ml per 5 gal bucket). So far the plants definitely aren't complaining and I am seeing possibly faster roots and thicker stems for sure on the first sets of fan leaves.

I add Stout because my gardens temp & humidity is pretty jumpy and they boast that it helps fight against those stresses. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'd say its worth using instead of potassium silicate products..


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## calvin.m16 (Nov 1, 2020)

And wow this post is from January...


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## newbplantgrower420 (Nov 5, 2020)

calvin.m16 said:


> Alchemist is a fantastic brand in my opinion. As for silica I never really used it after experimenting with Armor Si and not noticing much difference even when using it through veg & flower..
> 
> I use the Alchemist brand 99.99% Alcohol, Alchemist 35% Technical Grade H2o2 and Stout MSA.
> 
> ...


Does the amt you use lower ph quite a bit? I was thinking of using it as a ph down instead of phosphoric acid. 

I was thinking of getting powersi but 1 liter is like $70 vs Stout's 1 gallon for $70. 

Concentration is 1.25% for Alchemist vs 1.71% for PowerSi


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## calvin.m16 (Nov 8, 2020)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> Does the amt you use lower ph quite a bit? I was thinking of using it as a ph down instead of phosphoric acid.
> 
> I was thinking of getting powersi but 1 liter is like $70 vs Stout's 1 gallon for $70.
> 
> Concentration is 1.25% for Alchemist vs 1.71% for PowerSi


I want to say that it doesn't affect PH much.. For PH Down I usually use Hydroplex by botanicare to drop PH. Never had issues with using it throughout bloom or veg. You only use it @ 2-5ml/gal depending on plant size etc..


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## newbplantgrower420 (Nov 8, 2020)

good lookin out. i just ordered a gal off amazon for $80.

i went to the hydro store the other day to try and get a power si bottle.

im like whats the smallest size you guys have i want to try it out. He says a liter. I said how much. he says $180. Conversation ended.

im hyped for this. i have good experience with silica in hydro itself but now my girls are going to get readily available silica that doesnt have to be broken down by bacteria over weeks/months. should be fun


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## calvin.m16 (Nov 10, 2020)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> good lookin out. i just ordered a gal off amazon for $80.
> 
> i went to the hydro store the other day to try and get a power si bottle.
> 
> ...


You should enjoy it, just make sure to add it first and let it settle before mixing other nutrients or additives in. Always dillute your additives in a mixing cup of water prior to adding to reservoir. MSA might not create the "gel" effect that normal silica can but it will definitely react with certain nutrients and chemicals. If your reservoir goes cloudy there was a chem reaction and some components are locked out inevitably.

Personally I've been neglecting using any form of silicas lately and just encountered powdery mildew in one of my rooms.. Time to bust out the Eagle 20EW.


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## xtsho (Nov 10, 2020)

Potassium silicate will provide all the silica a plant could possibly need. These claims by companies to charge excessive amounts for products are just marketing ploys. AgSil 16H potassium silicate if you want to add silica. And call it a day.


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## newbplantgrower420 (Nov 10, 2020)

xtsho said:


> Potassium silicate will provide all the silica a plant could possibly need. These claims by companies to charge excessive amounts for products are just marketing ploys. AgSil 16H potassium silicate if you want to add silica. And call it a day.


I agree with you to an extent but ive read quite a few articles about how potassium silicate works. It basically has to be broken down by bacteria in the course of anywhere from weeks to months to then finally its able to be taken up by the plant. 

While monosilicic acid is readily available right away for the plant. 

I was mostly planning to use it as a ph down instead of phosphoric acid. but ill see how much approx i gotta dose to lower the ph.


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## newbplantgrower420 (Nov 10, 2020)

calvin.m16 said:


> You should enjoy it, just make sure to add it first and let it settle before mixing other nutrients or additives in. Always dillute your additives in a mixing cup of water prior to adding to reservoir. MSA might not create the "gel" effect that normal silica can but it will definitely react with certain nutrients and chemicals. If your reservoir goes cloudy there was a chem reaction and some components are locked out inevitably.
> 
> Personally I've been neglecting using any form of silicas lately and just encountered powdery mildew in one of my rooms.. Time to bust out the Eagle 20EW.


try sulfur fungicide for your pm issues. It stops it in its tracks. it just leaves a white residue on your leaves but thats normal.... you might think its PM spreading but its just residue. You can spray it as a preventative too.

i stay away from the eagle 20s and avids and azamax's of the world. theres cheaper and less toxic options


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## xtsho (Nov 10, 2020)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> I agree with you to an extent but ive read quite a few articles about how potassium silicate works. It basically has to be broken down by bacteria in the course of anywhere from weeks to months to then finally its able to be taken up by the plant.
> 
> While monosilicic acid is readily available right away for the plant.
> 
> I was mostly planning to use it as a ph down instead of phosphoric acid. but ill see how much approx i gotta dose to lower the ph.




It's still just marketing. Potassium silicate will provide all the silica a plant can use. But potassium silicate will raise the pH. I don't understand why you want to use monosilicic acid to lower the pH. And I'm not sure that it does. Most silica products raise the pH. What's wrong with phosphoric acid? It's a proven stable pH adjuster.

"Up until this point there is basically no scientific evidence that shows how stabilized silicon sources like ch-OSA may provide a benefit over using a simpler and cheaper source of silicon like potassium silicate in higher plants. If potassium silicate is dissolved at the appropriate concentration and in an adequate manner then there is no doubt that it can provide significant benefits at a fraction of the cost. Companies producing ch-OSA and similar silicon stabilized sources generally say that they contain “more bioavailable silicon” and while it may be true that they may allow for the larger abundance of some silicon species in solution, what they should show is an increase in benefits when compared with a potassium silicate control since this is in the end what interests most hydroponic growers. While this evidence is lacking it is certainly not worth it to pay the extra cost, given that benefits using potassium silicate have been proven while benefits using ch-OSA haven’t been proven to be greater than those obtained with these cheaper Si sources."






Is ortho-silicic acid worth the additional expense in hydroponics? – Science in Hydroponics







scienceinhydroponics.com


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## newbplantgrower420 (Nov 10, 2020)

xtsho said:


> It's still just marketing. Potassium silicate will provide all the silica a plant can use. But potassium silicate will raise the pH. I don't understand why you want to use monosilicic acid to lower the pH. And I'm not sure that it does. Most silica products raise the pH. What's wrong with phosphoric acid? It's a proven stable pH adjuster.
> 
> "Up until this point there is basically no scientific evidence that shows how stabilized silicon sources like ch-OSA may provide a benefit over using a simpler and cheaper source of silicon like potassium silicate in higher plants. If potassium silicate is dissolved at the appropriate concentration and in an adequate manner then there is no doubt that it can provide significant benefits at a fraction of the cost. Companies producing ch-OSA and similar silicon stabilized sources generally say that they contain “more bioavailable silicon” and while it may be true that they may allow for the larger abundance of some silicon species in solution, what they should show is an increase in benefits when compared with a potassium silicate control since this is in the end what interests most hydroponic growers. While this evidence is lacking it is certainly not worth it to pay the extra cost, given that benefits using potassium silicate have been proven while benefits using ch-OSA haven’t been proven to be greater than those obtained with these cheaper Si sources."
> 
> ...


I see. ill try it out and see for myself. worst case scenario.... I got some expensive ph down.


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## xtsho (Nov 10, 2020)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> I see. ill try it out and see for myself. worst case scenario.... I got some expensive ph down.


Give it a shot and keep us updated on how it works for your purposes. Experimentation leads to knowledge.


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## AquaTerra (Dec 28, 2020)

Silicate info https://manicbotanix.com/silica-additive-quality/

ManicBotanics also has some good into in how to mix potassium silicate properly https://manicbotanix.com/silicon-in-hydroponics/

I usually buy 208L of Kasil #6 and bottle it down for my customers. Thick a shit lol .41g of Kasil #6 into 1L of water is 50mg/ppm of SI


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## AquaTerra (Dec 28, 2020)

newbplantgrower420 said:


> try sulfur fungicide for your pm issues. It stops it in its tracks. it just leaves a white residue on your leaves but thats normal.... you might think its PM spreading but its just residue. You can spray it as a preventative too.
> 
> i stay away from the eagle 20s and avids and azamax's of the world. theres cheaper and less toxic options


Potassium Bicarbonate with a Yukka based wetting agent works great for PM.


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